19 Episode results for "Zwick"

1917 with Sam Mendes and Ed Zwick (Ep. 243)

The Director's Cut

32:32 min | 1 year ago

1917 with Sam Mendes and Ed Zwick (Ep. 243)

"And thanks for tuning it to another episode of the Director's cut brought to you by the directors guild of America featuring today's top director sharing behind the scene stories the latest films and insights into the craft of directing. Please take a second subscribe to our show wherever you get your podcasts. Episode takes US behind the scenes of director. Sam Mendez new wartime drama nineteen in seventeen. The film follows two young privates fighting with British forces during the first World War. They're given the impossible mission of delivering a message into enemy territory. Eight to prevent sixteen hundred men including one of the soldiers brothers from walking into a deadly trap. In addition to nineteen seventeen Mr Mendez direct. Toil credits include feature films Specter Sky. Fall Away we go Revolutionary Road Jar head and road to perdition. He received the Digi the award for outstanding direct Achievement in feature film for His Nineteen Ninety nine film American beauty following recent screening of the film at the Dj Theater in Los Angeles Geles Mr Mendez spoke with director Ed Zwick about filming nineteen seventeen. Listen on for their spoiler filled conversation. Thank you well. I mean I've just seen it now as you've seen it. So my reactions will be as gobsmacked gobsmacked is yours. It's a remarkable film and thank you thank you. Thank you very much and I have a number of very personal reactions to it but some some professional ones as well the first comment I would just make in general is it there. Is this home Eric. Quality to put this epoch notion of this young man's journey through these stations the cross or through these levels of hell was there any metaphor of that sort that you were thinking as you were right initially no actually it became it was it started as a very human story I it was influenced and inspired by my grandfather. Who oversees is that? It's dedicated to who fought in the war from nineteen sixteen to nineteen eighteen. Iribe live does a seventeen year old and he never spoke of his experiences as to his own children. And it wasn't that he was in his seventies that he taught about Mottola. You'll need that. He told them about his grandchildren and it was always. I was very struck by the fact that he was always very alone in historians And the story that's particularly stayed with me was story. He told about carrying a message across no-man's-land slant he was a very small man is five four and they used to giving the messages because the mist in the winter on no mass and hung at six so they couldn't see him above the top of the Miss Great and that image of that that one little man alone in that vast wilderness surrounded by a death that that was the inspiration for the film and he also used to do something which we laugh at initiatives to wash his hands obsessively this is in his late seventies and me and my cousins would often and then I said my dad. Why does granddaughter? She's Hausa Tom and he said what he's because he remembers the mud of the trenches and the fact that he could never get clean a suppose that the fact that he was still part of him but that but it but it started as that but then as we push through it and I decided it was going to be two hours real time. The first movement of the movie was going to be as it were from afternoon to dusk and the second movement was going to be from nine until dawn. It wasn't until we got to the second movement of the film that I felt. We moved out of something and naturalistic and into something. The mythic which is what you're talking about and that kind of descent into hell that happens in the town is not your imagination. That is what we talked about that sense sense of descending into hell and then pulling himself back across the river styx right back up into the land of the living again To the sound of that song and that's where he meets the living again. That was something we talked about and stylistically. We've found a way to mirror that so that that's the first time in the movie when he wakes up and he's been knocked out with a camera detaches from the character for the first time you know so that that was that that and that sense that that you know he was no longer somehow in the land entirely in the land living. It's also a mirror of his emotional state he wakes up. He doesn't know what time it is. He doesn't know way as to be anymore he could have been asleep. In fact we don't know that's the whole the point. He could have been out for two days so in a way the flag has and stuff was a way of mirroring his confusion and his his loss loss of self. Well one thing that occurred to me and you talk about the camera you know. Obviously there's there's an effect of this single shot and and what I realized at a certain point in particular at the very end when he sees Richard Madden when he finds his brother and I realized that as as we're watching his brother's reaction that I am finally fully participatory as the camera. Because there's a AH challenge. It seems to me. which is you can't do coverage you're not following him and obviously? Your station was very clever often so as to seen him and then found the ways to get the reactions. And that's that's artful but something more happen to me. which is that it no longer became artifice? I felt the point of view in that moment. Seen seen the reaction of the actor I was internally experiencing that and that was the accomplishments of the film that it that it arrived at that point. Ah I was fully inhabited. The camera was inhabited by the character at that moment. Well as interesting you should mention that so thank you first of all but the disease you mentioned that because actually that gave me the mostly was the two things that gave me. The most is nice. We're not the biggest technical challenges. They were the scenes in which I felt A. What was I doing a disservice to George to play Scofield by not showing not having a camera on absolutely so? I made a rule with myself if we got to a point where I felt this would be better if we cut. Then I'd done it wrong and I had to go back and either rewrite or restage often both so because the whole thing was oversee constructed as one piece form and content combined and the moment the two separated one was pulling against the other. I thought we've got it wrong. And we had to regroup and go back again so that was one of them. Because I felt we've earned this moment of seeing of seeing Scofield you know. Give the information about about his friend's death and yet at that point I felt when we got out there as we shot mostly in sequence. We knew him so well we knew exactly what he was feeling. We knew exactly what his face would be doing. And there is a tiny moment where he turn back towards camera and thanks. No I haven't finished. I have something else. I want to say any tens by and in that moment you reconnect with him. And that's all it took with. Just make sure we had that one little connection than he took it back into the scene again. The other side that gave me the greatest headache was the first scene in the movie. Because I've made all these Christina who wrote the script we I was very determined that there's no exposition and the expedition was very very gradual. Oh you lent in you found out the details but you didn't have the answers to everything a detail about a letter from home or the different reactions to leave. Aw Aw one of them had a mental or all of these things and they lied you they put you on. None of them had solutions seat of the movie where we have five minutes. I wanted them just to be with each other for a bid to have the courage. Just walk not say anything and what was said to be almost irregular citizens and yet at the same time to find find out about the characters that seeing gave me a lot of headache right to calibrate it right and also to paint a picture. We've been here since we've been waiting since Christmas waiting a long time. When are we going to go over? What's happening all of those things are going on in that first scene but they happen stealthily and so it was often and the subtleties that were difficult to be? I didn't want to trample it with the stylistic decision to also ensure also creating a sense of time you're you're allowing yourself to not be leisurely to do in fact exist in real time as people would speak and not speak so as to establish what the rhythm will be of that and and I think you change the way you watch think subtly happens but I think what happens is you you realize soon after it starts on a minute. A very interesting with our first preview audience because I didn't want to tell them anything about how it shot it or anything about anything really. You never do with a preview audience and so and then awesome at the end. Did you notice anything about how it was shot and at at least half of them less than half of them said one shot I they what they were completely engaged. But what you want is for into experience time as kind has experienced time which is a movie that observes more rules more of the rules of a ticking clock thriller than at some points Winston conventional war movie. You want them to feel every second passing you also want to understand distance and physical difficulty and scale and and to begin to understand no. You're locked here. You're not going to jump two hundred yards. You're not gonNA jump half an hour you are going to have to get on the journey with them or not. If they don't make it so you you begin to watch in a different way and your begins to watch image in a different way. Sometimes obviously you're connected to the character and the cameras very subjective and your very intimate but other other times we allowed stage it in such a way as the cameras moved away from the camera and the and the vision is of the gays is very objective. And you're seeing the characters small in an epic landscape and in those moments you you begin to understand scale on the and and you're is allowed how to wander across land and pick out details do is that a body rat. What was that in my peripheral vision and it was very I was very I was trying very much is to get the I to operate as it does in life you know? What did you catch things and to not know always exactly what it was that you saw not to point point the camera say look over there look there but to let them pull away from camera down that when they first hit the front line pulled away from camera and you just sit in that sense ends of waiting just waiting people living there for years just sleeping eating shit all in the same place that that filth they lived in and you? There's an element in. I wanted the movie to simply bear witness to it to say about no-man's-land this happened. This is this was that that will just cutting through it will. Did I know that Peter Jackson had been working for four years before you right probably as you were beginning. I think probably that that movie was probably coming out and you'd already been working on for some period of time. I imagine that when we were prepping very helpful for US I was GonNa say that documentary. I don't know if you've seen that Peter Jackson documentary which is so extraordinary. Those faces seem to me and some of the just the little detail had to who've helped inform you. I think at that moment at Dennis I suspect as well it did. I mean you know it was very difficult with this movie. Because aren't many the history of we'll move is is very shallow. Compared to the pool is very shallow compared to the Second World War and Vietnam and and also you know so we tend to this dangerous period movies that you think you know the first war or the second one but actually what movies about second warn you and obviously there's an enormous about documentary footage for Vietnam for Second World War but this almost none for the first of all so we were drawn back to photographs again and again and in fact rather than other movies and Roger and I had three photos that we that were basically we felt with a movie and they would just just take it by soldiers of other soldiers There's one particular one which is the three of them talking into Breakfast and an about twenty yards away with three dead bodies and they would just they they just the fact that they co existed with the dead on a daily basis it was a simple fact of life and it wasn't remarkable to them. They weren't making any comment. It was just Ah. The body's just piled up and the sense of loss and destruction on a huge scale is sometimes better expressed in in small images. His familiarity they have with death and showing thousands of British so it was trying to get that it was trying to judge. That was also the way the camera was it was. It was the depth of field the composition of the shots. They just had the feeling we were looking for. You know it's funny when you talk about. What other movies because there there is those preceded this that single tracking shot in paths of glory? which was maybe at its moment probably the longest tracking shot that anyone had ever done and it was in the context of the trenches as well? How old were you when you saw that? Oh I must have seen it like ten years ago fifty. Whenever I was on my I q break Jack May twenty? It's actually not as long as you as you think because I looked at it again obviously for obvious reasons is actually. It's quite a bit back and forth between between Douglas and the but it's a remarkable piece of composition as always Cuba. But yeah that was that was one of the things that larger my money grand illusion and a couple of. I mean there have been great movies about the wolf but I fell none that had had expressed I it. Th The human experience of that will I mean for me. This wall doesn't have the the cultural significance in this country because because the US wasn't a part of it in the same way but for us in the UK it throws it. It caused a huge shadow. You walk into any village in town and there's a memorial memorial to the fallen and as we were poppies on Remembrance Day unless it of stuff so it does have a huge significance in his just started writing in two thousand seventeen on the hundredth anniversary. And we have you know when it was sad and there is a sense with this particular war in which the boundaries of Europe were redrawn redrawn. In which these men were fighting for a free and unified Europe that we would do well to remember at the moment of the winds that blew before this will l. a. blowing again and there is a sense that you know history teaches a lot on this war in particular because it was it was not. It's a war in which it was easy to define who the bad guy was in the way that it was in the Second World War this a few freaks out anything the Nazis. How the point but pretty much consensus consensus that they were they were the bad guys? There was we're fighting against universal evil. That was not the case. Far Far greater human losses in the first World War and that was no universal evil it was confusion and mismanagement and confused notion of national identity and that that is something that we we need to address again. These are the lessons I mean not that I made it as a lesson you know. I made it as a as an experience as an immersive experience to put you in those shoes news but there is a something behind that as well well from the sublime to the ridiculous there's another which may sound sacrilegious but to a younger audience audience. I think it's worth even trying to talk about what video games have become because each moment presents a new challenge and a new landscape. And and that you know that protagonist through the point of view the camera has to franchise it and transcend into the next level. And I think there's there's actually something something to be talked about in that. Sure I mean listen. These guys are artists of the highest. Possible callup exactly and anyone who's played red dead redemption as I had the good fortune she to do with the nose. You just goes the did they do it. Yeah so of course that. Immense sort of that sense is that the first person moving through landscapes is now almost a familiar trope and yet it's also a lazy comparison because at the end of the day. We're not in control. You're not in control of this story. You're in the has storyteller or storytellers. You know you're alone in the dark and it also for emotional investment and it reminds you the difference between movies in Video Games right and that is a crucial difference. And that's what I am interested in. I'm interested in investing. You emotionally in a story and telling it to you in a way that allows you to abandon to lose yourself in it. I'm not asking for physical engagement in the way that you offer video games very different an awkwardly Berlin thing to be doing with your life but it's not what we did the other thing is there's a constantly shifting a very deliberate constantly shifting and point of view you know it's not always trotting along over someone's shoulder it's not always you know seeing someone fifty fifty. It's it's often expressing things close up of a of a of milk or a moment when the camera detaches from the carried so all sorts of things are not logical but have an emotional truth and that's also something that film can express that perhaps video games Kant so it does ask you to define you find the difference between the two and why it is that we are interested in one and not the other. Well in fact I've always felt is the minute that they ask you the video game. Say to engage actively what you're giving up is what is obligatory to have a real emotional experience which is essentially passive When we're told stories as children we engage their imagination? But we abandon ourselves we surrender to that moment and that allows ourself herself and the minute that we engage something that is somehow active. I think it cuts us off possibly from that emotional response also we watching human beings. The most interesting thing at the end of the day is the people in the characters. And if they're not interesting does matter how fancy camerawork is how clever the conception. It's it's not going to engage you when I sit and watch I watch Al Al Pacino trying to terrorist rip off Stephen Grammy Other Day in the Irish woman. I kind of became. I'm him I I was as enraged as out and that's what it does for also weaver emotional investment. That's what it is you know. And and so anyway but I think that that that that's where it splits But nevertheless you know it's pretty amazing landscape that they create these days. I have I I was saying of a personal relationship. Not just as the number of people that I've worked with it you've worked with this film. whose workers in really reaching its tells the moment I think in this movie but George Mackay was twelve years old when he came to work with me in Lithuania and he came on the way from the airport to the set. He had a car accident and he arrived with a huge black guy he could barely opened his eye and we were beginning to shoot literally an hour later or two hours later and was like what are we gonNa do and of course we wrote a little bit so as to have him and he was so game name already at twelve years old and it could never who anticipated what you then we're about to put him through but but but talk about yours for a moment puts him through his right right. Yeah he's a remarkable is it and he makes it look so easy and you know the second of this movie. He carries on his shoulders with almost no dialogue at all. He's he's a remarkable actor. But you know like a great silent film actor almost there. Is those big blue eyes in that white. Is Thou whites get in that trench at the end the way he looks up at the trench side of things. I'm going to run. I'm going to go over. I Dunno it gives me the chills every time. He's wonderful but you mentioned how game he is. You know one of the things about this movies. We were in this constant dance trying to trying to combine great precision behind the camera all the time extremely I mean you know just every every second. He choreographed with spontaneity in front of the camera. You know we were embracing accident trying to encourage the actors to live it as much is to act it and so constantly changing and Conditions Shinzo whether it'd be whether or or live animals or babies or or you know Madhu inability to stand up all of those things you just gotTa go with it. It's the couch right to handling it not you. So let's see what happens. And sometimes we had scenes like Blake's death scene for example. where I I it wants weeks before and it was so I could? It was so good I just had to get them to remember the physical journey of the scene. This is what you pick him up this way dropping ban you and then I said now wait you know. Just remember when you pick him out when you put him down where you were. His body position is and don't do it until we're ready and it's GonNa take us a while to us so everything's just right. Because I knew he could burn through that into three takes and then it would take me hours days perhaps never get get it again but George at the end you. Yeah you get away with that. He's running down that trend out. Poor those hundreds of adrenaline extras all of you. Know it's one take and you know this is my my moment and sure enough. It's absolutely biped out. And he just got up and Gary on the site of two hundred crew members just sharing him on it was like a sporting event it was like the only had to do. And it's in the movie I had to do was dub out the swear words when he said as he got down. But you know that that feeling that Oh you had in the movie where where with this particular film with some unusual was every person on sat was invested in every shot because of course every show involve them and so you had that immense normally and made you aware of how fragmented most filming is this bitter close up. That's a male special effects are waiting for the big out. We'll have another shot at it. Yeah we'll have another go but but also that everyone has their own little bits and somehow you know so that before you know people are off in the Kuwano reading a newspaper scrolling through there whatever and suddenly there was that feeling of everyone was in it together and it was very moving and that was partly because the way we constructed it was was to have George and Dean Star Trek with us. You know so I said to to them this. I'm going to offer you the parts but I need. Did you to be with us for six months before you even run roll camera on this. You know by. And they didn't the whole six months they did. They took off. They went to boot camp. They did did went to France and Belgium on research ship etc.. But I could not bail. We could not build anything until we had rehearse the scene and and stepped out the journey. So we started on MT field with them in scripts in hand and we did the trenches and we must the trenches out with polls turn left and right there and we built. Then we decide digging the trenches and we dug over a mile of trenches and fill them with people and then we did that with no-man's-land German trenches quarry or should who'd Farmhouse Roads Town. Imagine it and every step had to be accounted for before we built the sets there was no way out right so the level of tension in me particularly of this is it this day is this five minutes of film is in the movie whether I like could own all that was a totally different experience but it also meant that everyone else was living with that with. That was moving. Yeah I mean. I'm curious to talk about prep a bit because once you've done that. How much did you pre? Visualize say the pass offs or say any any of the trade offs that that had to happen or say. Say a shot as he's walking across the bridge and you have to prepare the camera in terms of what Roger's going to do whether it's going to be a strong above or whether it's going to be a drone or whatever you can do good how much was was reversed. There was a previous as in as any kind of ended and a matic. None at all and I did did that because I did that. On Bond Them I hated it. Okay so was boards then Sagan boards. Then I did a little storyboards yes and a lot of talking. You know a lot of imagining engining when you're just thinking about one camera it kind of is much easier than trying to work out. Twelve twelve setup so the sixteen centers that are going to express the scene. I mean just okay. made a rule a packed Roger and I it was. We were going to move the camera where it was best to express the story and and and not think yet about the engineering of it and how we would actually make it work so it was a kind of a kind of Utopian idea of camera you you know but we also knew that we didn't want it to be self advertising so we didn't want it to we're going to ask you to go through a keyhole or follow the path of a moving bullets or go into someone's right right Isaak it whatever not my cup of tea so or Rogers and so you know there were certain rules and I also said to Roger Radio on this here that is not a one shot move. That's a badly edited scene. Okay right I mean. Obviously you could do that in certain situations in a normal movie but in a one shot movie that felt like an make. That felt like an apology so everything that was my responsibility. So for example a scene like this thing we call them at the beginning in the dugout. There was a strong. There was a strong temptation to go back and forth. But you had a certain moment george walk around behind the table so he could then be captured again on camera precise so we had the map on one table. That's aerials call in turn around. The boys went round the other side and it became a two-shot of the boys right which then became you know them and and we went we he pivoted one hundred degrees. So we're looking back into the DUGOUT. Now what you can't see a good example of how complex these things because I wanted the camera to float over the tables but also be unhooked and then turn around. It was on a techno crane. They unhooked it from the techno and as as we were panning to them getting their provisions wins and picking up that grenades they retracted the techno crane and open the back wall of the south. Drop the Bible of the set. Closed the ceilings. So that when we came round back onto Colin. Who's just sitting calmly this cup? It sounds like madness ten seconds before people running routes. They're running around behind the camera like got some ridiculous and then and then we ended up. We send it off to Lee Brilliant editor Lee Smith and he said yeah they didn't really I. It's four takes a little bit in a detached like it's because they were thinking what these crewmembers doing and I think that that that that was part of it was was the the handle as you. Call it under the shifts rig to rake the the. The goal was always to make it. Absolutely you know smooth and fluids the camera had this sort of stealthy always slightly threatening forward movement leaving pulled through the movie by gravity almost rather than presented with image or rush there was nothing Jerky Ham held but then equally there was nothing that was to write extravagant. You talk about very interesting too about the crossing of the bridge because we did six or seven. Different story boards that sequence. Because I couldn't work out how to get him across that bridge without now suddenly turning into action here right and I thought this is really tricky. You can't suddenly become James Bond after two thirds of a story in which you know he's really ah best an accident so trying to get him and try to express it that that the the tenuousness of how you know. He's tiptoeing on that Ridge. The orig- the Brooklyn Bridge and stuff like that and getting into his own stunt leap and all that sort of thing so that was a a wire rig so it was it was it was operated operated by to grips with the stabilize to stay amenities. You pull it off the wire at the ad exactly. Then it's hooked onto the Y.. Y carries it wise preprogramed unrest and then drop some of the sender rake and unhooked on the towpath that goes under the bridge and then follows him up so that is genuinely one show from from from him. Coming out of the truck ran to the town to him. Going into the lockout is one shot right so and that is just. That's just an example of the engineering and the the when you took your eyes off the monitor screen and looked at the operation and they could not have been more different right shot it was stealthy gracious and precise and the rents are running around headless chickens but they were all fo the new Donna. And I've never known anyone in all the things I've ever done. Who is better or more adroitly prepared than Roger? I've never seen anybody do more preparation than than it. It's inspiring because someone is at the top of that craft has. He has been now for thirty odd years forty years and he's the one who you know he's he carr's move than anyone and and you know he is. He's more meticulous prepares you say. But he's also a poet you know he's also understands light and image and power of image and and as befits a man of few words I remember doing sky full. We were on the road and we were on the roof of the Grand Zara Stumble and all these there were six Mawson though cooling the faithful to prayer and Raja was looking into the sunset sunset and taking taking photographs with is that like and I took a photograph of him and send it to James his wife and said you know he'd just say you know what we're doing at the moment he's on. Top of the grab is all taking photographs. The sunset and James Takes about well. That's Roger Give Him something to photograph and give him a camera pointed at and he's happy that's dispute and I thought that's exactly right. You Know He. That's how he expresses himself the poetry that as you say as you descend in that second act of the film as he some of those images Mitch's are are so startling and so Iconic and and and there is just elevates the whole the whole story makes it. He's doing place. I'm keeping given assigned here about one more minute to talk them. I don't know I just. I just think that it's it's a very there have been a lot of directors who have tried to do this kind of thing before I can evoke hitchcock invoke others and yet this succeeds in a way that the others were self conscious and and I think limited by it this seemed to explode into a different place. And I just wanted to congratulate you for thank you thank you the thanks for listening to another DGA QNA. If you'd like to hear more you can find past episodes of the director's cut. Wherever have you listen to podcasts? Stay tuned for more great. QNA's with directors Destin Daniel Cretin and Clint Eastwood and Short Subscribe Rate and review us. We'd love to hear your feedback and you can help fellow house by the show. Thanks again for listening and have a great week. This podcast was produced by the directors. Here's guild of America Music by Dan Volley.

Roger George Mackay Director director US Scofield Mr Mendez Europe Mottola James Bond Sam Mendez directors guild of America Peter Jackson Eric Ed Zwick Richard Madden Los Angeles
Mike Smith Interview - August 2, 2019

The Horse Racing Radio Network Podcast

09:23 min | 1 year ago

Mike Smith Interview - August 2, 2019

"Nice enough to join us now my main man the king of Queens you know him as money my hall of Famer Triple Crown on winning Jockey Mike Smith Mike it's Anthony Judy. Thanks for some time on the happy hour here on E.. Charen unexpressed Arabia. Hello Vega Doodo. You guys doing good good great. Hey this isn't your first. <hes> your first Rodeo. When it comes to the Whitney back in nineteen ninety three go back into the way back machine run Zwick for Tony Moore gotTA got the money. What do you remember about that day. Oh is my first grade name big race in Saratoga and win Mar God the horses Renos dynamite race that day he was kind of a bit of an underdog going in and and upset the car they're great place and it was just wonderful race to win rate honor when we get the opportunity to win the you know these these caliber races especially what this race is has turned into credible race now. Oh Yeah Great Memories up here at Saratoga. You are a mainstay up here for a long time and now the last few years especially you've come back Jack. What are some of your more favorite recent memories here the spy shore my favorite Philly Song. It's gotTa rank right up there without a doubt. I'm and getting the opportunity to to win on songbird up here and <hes> arrogate crushing it and the travers <hes> breaking I forget how many years own record that that was set <hes> coming back the following year yet west coast winning travers. I mean I've been so blessed your New New York period but <hes> especially at Saratoga when you can win a race to stir toby. I don't care what anyone says. It's not like winning a you could win a great one everywhere else in unconscious but when you win when you're at Saratoga it easy the more yes. It's one of those places where the racist just become extra special. Because they're here I mean there's just no comparison to any other racetrack. I mean I know now. You're a del Mar guy and I was a Delmar guy for over twenty years years in I mean it's just when you're here. You just can't believe it's actually happening to you yeah. That's really true I mean and it's just the caliber horses sources that you're competing against <hes> you'll have to have more of them out here and you know a lot of divorces in when when you win here it's just it's different <hes> for whatever reason it really isn't credible. Mike everybody asks us and we know now you more. You're more of a shipper when you come to Saratoga. What are some of the spots. You like to hit <hes>. I don't want to say as a tourist because you were a mainstay here for so long but when you come into town we always get asked where you're going. The eat grab a drink. What are some of the spots you like to hit here socially while you're up at the SPA well. I got to say you know long enough that you know everything everything changes you know a lot of the places that I could to aren't around anymore. <hes> but I feel like you know you see some sperry. Stop by there. If I get a chance to the everybody if anybody remembers me there but <hes> you know and you got a lot of a lot of new places in town. Now that are just excellent you know every time I venture in if I'm get the opportunity to stay the night. I tried to try different spot and it's a lot a lot of great places. A lot of a lot of you know fun fun places to eat at around here and great food. Your wife's pretty good keeping her finger on the pulse of <hes> social activities. It looks like you guys are having a great time. Oh back back in no more. You mean well wherever you are. It seems like you guys are always out enjoying join yourself and I think that's great. I think <hes> time of your life where you should enjoy it. I I agree you know we. We just recently got married. We're very happy happy. <hes> things are going wonderful and <hes> blessed to still be doing what I love to do and and getting the opportunity to ride the horses like McKenzie. Hopefully we can really come together tomorrow and pull this thing off. Let's talk about Mckenzie a little bit. Mike before there was justify the Baffert bond there. That wasn't McKenzie. He was <hes> he was essentially justify before justify. You're the only guy that's ever rented them. Six for eleven with four second-place finishes the only time it's off the board was in the Breeders Cup classic last year talk to us a little bit about this on the street sense as just a special horse. She really is <hes> an entity his time to shine <hes> I don't think I don't think we've seen how good this horse really is and can't be. I still really believe we haven't seen the best of them but you know he he. He got hurt early on you know he was. He was probably the Derby favourite before a justified can't came along and he got hurt early on and of course I was just less justified. If I did come along but now that he's retired I mean <hes> Mackenzie is his stepped into his shoes and and and and again I don't I don't believe the anthony that we see the best of this horse yet. <hes> I think there's more to him and he's a big kind of awkward. Horse join into himself in a man it's all coming together other now especially in his four year year later four year old year and he started really do things right of course in the morning the training just incredible and he started really do things that are that are incredible in the afternoon and given that Opportunity Tomorrow I you know it's a tough tough race and it's a good race man but <hes> there's supposed to be when you're running forbid dollars at Saratoga and I'm excited about it. I'm hoping he said he gets his time to shine. I think that's a great description of that. He really wasn't sure what he was doing. He you know he needed some time and and he he seems like the older he gets more savvy. He gets let's and and you're able to do more things with them. He's more agreeable to what you want him to do. You think that's the case exactly right. That's your nails with another another another on the head of early on he was just a big quirky and awkward and attempted. You'd ask him to run in and reach back and ask I came in he. He might do something different or you know he was. Just he was always. Ability was always there. It was just him bigger things out and now it's really all come together together. Intense and I'm really excited about this this second half of the year go into the Breeders Cup <hes> you know he's he's doing so well right now. Allen and I'm like I said given the opportunity and he runs his race tomorrow. We could see some pretty special. What will his. What do you revisionist trip to be tomorrow. It's the pace scenarios a little murky. I don't know if it's preservation is does he have the speed to be in front. If I was determined airman two and Anthony he definitely does but I mean you know it. Just all depends on the rate. I've learned with him. You know you know as well as as well as him growing up I've learnt him well and he likes to being a comfortable happy place and sometimes that's up close. If he gets away running on his own it could it could be close could even be on the lead but he's also as you've seen you know. He settled back. <hes> of course you know the prices a lot quicker when he has settled back but when he when he does he comes with the powerful runs. That's great anything about him. He's he's not he's not need to lead type or or has to have pace to run into <hes> to to run his race. As long as he's comfortable he <music> GONNA fire they go fast or they go slow or or if he wants to lay up very close or if he you know chooses to sit back a link to but I always I always help him out of there. He's a big horse. I'M GONNA help them on out of there and we'll see where that puts. Does that make your job tougher not knowing where he's going. I don't WanNa be you know you just gotta learn to accept it. You visit except where he wants better than you it at switching tactics tactics. I mean you you know I.. I think you've proven that time and again. If things don't go your way you don't you don't fret about it. You just figure out what you need to do to get get home. I if long as as long long my horses comfortable I'm fine with it. I'm fine with you know you might see me ride a horse and be three times on the lead in a row and then all of a sudden the you know he's back about five out of it and sometimes even better race <hes> in the U._C.. That that tells me that the pace is probably quicker than it has been the last three times and and he's happy where he's that is just go with it. You know I I've learned it as long as you get a good horse happy and comfortable minute. They're gonNA run all right. Well Best of luck to you tomorrow. Mike thanks for some time. I'll stop by the room now. Stop on a room at some point sale al it's always good to see in town <hes> good luck. I will good luck tomorrow Mackenzie but thank you thank. You guys nice talking to you.

Saratoga Anthony Judy Mike Mackenzie McKenzie Mike Smith Arabia Vega Doodo Rodeo Mike everybody Whitney Queens travers Zwick New York Tony Moore toby Allen four year twenty years
Episode 161: Reasons for sharing knowledge

The Canine Paradigm

1:24:28 hr | Last week

Episode 161: Reasons for sharing knowledge

"What's happening in the canine industry for all the latest news. Views and expert opinions. Stay right here for the canine paradigm. You'll hear from industry leaders. Experts doyennes of the industry learn colleagues movers and shakers and the odd randy guest get the latest insights and expert advice from both here and abroad from the people in the nov. Now here your hosts glenn cook and pat steward am lofty fulton. And i'm outta here. Glenn yes guess what. What your new ad. oh. I like it though. You're gonna say new year new year. Now i'm still same shitty version you you know who's not a shitty version of themselves anymore. Go ahead and tell me the booth head the fighting befit on zelina. My god is dog. Quip yes jason is only half the man. He was Year ago i know. He's on an amazing journey but he deal cell's amazing equipment best equipment. You can get mistrial. Yes he does. Dog training equipment. He's the only man to go two. Yup it's not just equipment ada. He did those cages for my car on a fucking rat. There are really good. Yeah like a new range of stuff is a new line of gear. I think it's hope clean line klein. Is it yeah. Think client line. That's how i read it. Clean that mad some really good stuff. Yep so i've got to do a little review for him on that but don't check out his website because he has got one yes on zelina dot quip can help that finds weck e i n. Wac k is correct. Yeah on zwick dog quick. Check it out if you're in australia. That's the only place you should be getting yogi from yup. None of those other places. That's right just go straight to the buffet. Yeah to say buffet. It gives a deal now. I know you north. Americans probably dislike goddamn some of that off me so i think if you want treadmill as you can actually still get them through jason. Because he's sort of just as the middle guy anyway and he knows he knows who's making the good meal yep But if you want other dog training equipment mock lapointe lapointe. Yes yeah it's french amok or around good guy canadian using very very good man. Yup and he's got everything he's like can on dynamics as training equipment. Leashes all the normal stuff you'd expect to see dynamic. Yeah he's website is much better than jason fact. I actually was a client of kenan dynamics more we knew makhala point and the purchase process was seamless. The websites amazing. It's very good. It's very detailed in. Its light at well. Any covers all of north america yet. Which canadia is included in that as well as in canada kind of dynamics east canadian yes or no. He's in auto are is knee. Someone doesn't matter it doesn't matter he won't doctrine tests show. I think the point. We have one other sponsor yes. Melanie benway kindred junior. Canine yep from the train town itself ashland virginia. Yup so if you need in-home behavior modification. yep she'll come round and look outside on. We did the way she does. She very kindly gave away the whole business model tape into twenty twenty the high school program. If you know someone that needs the home school program. Yup get them onto million benway. Can you canine. Oh you know what people should probably wanna learn more about home school program beyond what she gave away for free on the show right idea. They should in contact with her. She should charge them to take them about that kind of stuff. We just opened up a whole new revenue stream for you absolutely. You're welcome. Turn welcome back to the ken paradigm. I'm pat stewart joined in studio by my co host glencoe. It's not really the official first of twenty twenty kind of ease but it isn't yet is according according on twenty twenty twenty twenty one. Yeah twenty twenty one. She's man they leave behind. What a year. Yep so you you new year really. Hey did you see that little girl rosie reid doing the paradigm that was hilarious. What a little cutie. Hang on apply it straight and accent. I actually wake up this morning. And it was one of my highlights to waking up to like i i saw it and i thought what a little sweetie doing that i shouted to rip. And he's like what she talking. So we i was like that's an american trying to straighten accent ministry or all the latest news views and expert opinions say. Cheer on quesnoy. Terry giggle at the end. I win paradorn. americans trying to strike accents. They just south african yeah. It's kind of funny. But that's what they think we unlock. Because all to way to the states people will come teams. I get i might. I'm thinking i've never heard. Even somebody from back in the boonies of australia never heard them sound like that. Before in parts of queensland you get that. The of the country repeal bogan act. That's the way the buffets from i wonder. Yeah exactly. yeah hey yeah we've got a toby. We have so. I listen to lots of different podcast right and one of my favorite ones even struggle with that sometimes. But that's why i listen to it. A lot is cold revisionist history malcolm gladwin and he goes down a few different format because they're into five seasons but the idea was initially that he looks back at like big events from the past and now that they're so far in the past actually gives a shit about it he's like on emotively. What really happened right. And so it's pretty good in some ways. And so now he does a bunch of other investigative staff and listening to one today. And it's about holding right. It's about the the museum the metropolitan museum in new york and they broke right. They literally have billions of dollars worth of hot and things but no money and on the balance sheet and they don't count any of the art or anything because out broad daylight so that doesn't matter how much it's worth because we're not selling it okay. And so they recently laid off ninety people and they shot a whole bunch of exhibits and they started charging entry that they've never done before and did that rather than sales some of the literally millions of things they have yes storage. That have never seen a lot of day. I and so. Maybe sorta start thinking about hoarding and they refer to the dragon from the hobbit. Small is like obsessed with these treasurer. Yup to the point where it's no longer treasure. Yep right it actually becomes the burden and it made me think about knowledge dissemination. Because it's it's kind of big on my mind. Because i think you know that's what we do and in coming up with a topic for a podcast about training you realize that we have. There's a lot of dog training knowledge. That has been put out this podcast. But i also sell some knowledge some knowledge away and also this stuff that i don't talk about because i'm congress to working on it right and yeah thought that we could discuss sort of explorer a little bit. The idea of information dog training information. And the way that we disseminate it in many different ways fascinating topic. And i've got a little bit of a kinship to what you're talking about. I'm talking about. The physical aspect of hoarding of sparkin met my grandmother on this podcast over the years and her psychological effect on me as a child and another one of those effects that she had on me was her and my grandfather will hold his. They wouldn't throw anything out they'd stick everything under the house because they thought will be a time where we can fix it. They grew up in the great depression. So people back then. They didn't take lightly what they had. They kind of thought well rather than throw something why it can be fixed. It can be used again. It can be recycled of admire that in a lot of ways because they were small on wastage like they just didn't pile through things they they didn't take it for granted that they had money and they had all items and so forth they were really quite weren't is is in any way shape or form. Identing my grandma was overly generous. But cheers moyser as well like if she put on a banquet for people like she would feed you really well and she'd fade the whole neighborhood as well you know. She delighted in having people around but go onto the house. My grandfather had like probably twenty sets onto the because he used to love repairing. He was an engineer. In the air force he loved repairing. These thing like electric's was really. He's passion shit everywhere so when they died i had the job of going around and cleaning the house and getting ready for sale. It took us three wakes of six people to get everything out under the house to put it into skips to get rid of it and even then there was still stuff they by the. Tom just said fuck. It just wrapped it and sell the house. It was just insane. So i know that the burden holding has on you. Whether you're talking about it metaphorically or you talking about physically. It can have a real dramatic effect because remember as a child open cupboard to the house and the cupboards jam-packed there was stuff every and sewing room because she might wedding dresses material and things from times gone boy. It was just amazing. Thought maybe we could discuss to start with some of the reasons why some people don't share any knowledge try just keep it use it for themselves and never air interested in training anybody else doing anything else and we talk about in dog training like there's a lot of really good dog trainers who really fantastic on the tools but dr share that information at all right. Some people don't know how to there's that So that's one of the reasons fisher. Well there's that too right so well. I think that there's there's layers to that right rather than just saying there. It's like why they choosing that right. Yeah so for short. I'm not saying everybody like we're talking about categories of people. Yeah that's right so like this for show people who don't so there's people who are very very intrusive with dogs and just know how to try and dogs and they've never really formerly learnt it they just know and they've good at it and they therefore don't have anything to pass on because they never learned anything and they just acting in the moment and it's like a friend of mine that i sort of explained that a maths genius like he can't shows work he can tell you incredibly him with any kind of math problem you want to speed out the answer and he actually gets quite dangerous because when you probe him about it he really doesn't know how we got to that like it's just how he chins and he's not the guy you're imagining needs tweed jacket with the elbow pads and the glasses in front of a whiteboard i like he's one of the toughest most fierce warriors of ever met but can figure out maths in instant i think that was like one of the die hard movies where there was an like a computer geek on there and they sort of went to bed early mean he was this bad ass fucking like commando type person he goes. I probably just thought it was like a nerd or something like that. Yeah just destroyed all these people that came after. Yeah so that's kind of the cat. Yeah yeah so. I think there's people like that dogs for sure. Who had just intuitively the dog. And i don't really have anything to pass on. Because they're not cognitive in doing. It's it's a subconscious. Whatever it is. In the same way. I know i have to breathe and it just happens i will true and with the dog and bring whatever it is from the dog. So that's definitely a category of people who aren't pass on any knowledge because they con- right. They've got nothing to say about it the other one. I think he's for sure people that you discussed that. Don't want to write. And that's where we put into the hoarding khanna category year and at its people who think like nah. This is mine. I worked hard to get this. I'm not passing that on to you and for love no money. Can you get information out of them. And that's the kind of obama. Think that's kind of the worst. Category two bain. Because i feel like dog. Training knowledge is a real. I rice right lock. You only get as good as you are because you didn't have to stop start That's why we leave in these buildings and we're talking into a microphone. Like if i had to build this microphone. If you gave me from now until the end of my life would not be out of these microphone together. I don't understand how it works like these plastic side. He like we. Would i mind the raw material that right. It's a realize someone made this and they pasta onto me. And now i can use it like i don't have all that knowledge and it's the same as why we're not still. We are experimenting in medical forms. But like you can go and get your appendix removed. Because as somebody studied it yes. Somebody's all that time and a lot of lives it you know i was watching. I was watching a show on again. It was probably a netflix show. But it was dealing with all doctors who learned to do Sections and how many women lost their lives and unborn. Children lost their lives to learn how to do that in. I'd like it came at great expense. But i finally figured out the safe way to do it so i could cite both the mother and the baby. Yeah and so a day came where you had this terrible pain in the insides and you had damon's and we had to excise the damon's but you still died and then one day someone was like no look. There's this little organ in here and we can just take that and thankfully he told other people was like the may not be damon's that might actually be this appendix thing and we could take that out and then they'll be okay so i think that's kind of the biggest bama when people off for whatever reason they could be laws but where they're like. No i have the capacity to posses on. But i choose not to. You can't from me. i won't give it to you. Know passing on the information and that's the worst category. I think i think there's kind of reasons why people can get to that point. Maybe they've pasta owning formation and for free and then say now the sell it or this is definitely one of the categories. We can put people into don't wanna share information is they worried about being misconstrued or misunderstood or they're stocking that moment right so that was for me one of the problems that i had with starting to not problems aside the poco spit. If you go back to the first episodes we certainly talk about it. It was a concern for maize on record saying things right and like now i have no like. I have no qualms of we've instilled that. Were wearing todd jamil. Yeah that's right. So i have no qualms about that when people say oh i heard you say this i go yeah well. That was the tuesday or on wednesday. Traveling along the timeline. Yeah so but there's people who can kind of you know and certainly on neely was one who would say no like. That's the information. If i put it out. I'm stuck that box. And i want to be stuck in that bulk. So that certainly one of the reasons now talking about this and again talking about history and so forth. I'm sure that i'll mention this. However one of my early mentors. I remember being in the field and was training a dog and watching him in adjourning field training a dog and he was doing a technique that i'd never seen before and like you sort of saw me watching stopped sort of walked off. Put the dog away. And we're up in the room having morning tea and i said oh just watching you do something with the dog. I haven't seen that movement before. Could you explain to me was to do with long legs. And i'd never really worked with long back then and i said could you show it to him and he said i'll say it. Why and he goes. You know what i know. And i said man that's kinda sinister not prepared to me and i'm he Making money fuel business and he said well you know learning yourself. Yeah so that's that's an interesting mindset to have right. Yeah and for sure there's people that have that mindset and i think that's probably call that feminine mindset where it's like i call it a jealous mindset yet but i think like i put that into the category of like this abundance mindset and is famine mindset and i think that that's in the famine whereas like there's not enough like so if i give you what i have. There's not enough for all of this right. Why my favorite movies. I think it's one of the greatest movies ever made. And it's not that good a movie. But i love the idea of it. I love it. It's called sunshine right because you know that one have you ever seen so it set in sort of a not too distant future where the sonics do no it. Yeah wha- despise movie. Yeah the sun is going out. And they're on. This mission is the whole world has come together Put together these huge bomb that he's going to hopefully reignite the santen and they're the second mission the first mission was lost and that's kind the plot of the movies of encountering the first mission. But the idea is that. There's no second chance they have mind all the nuclear material from the earth to use it on this ball and if they're not successful and everybody's dead yeah and so the path along the why is really interesting because i deal with as complex topics about like. How important are you in the greatest game things and the my favorite characters. The pilot of the he's naming it. But he's captain america america's before captain america team and. Nothing yet he's like mission focused he. He doesn't kill anyone. Sorry he doesn't kill anyway you'll ever because he's like he's like i don't give a fuck. We're not going back. Like i don't care what happens along. The way like domitian is getting achieved. Yep so there's some really complex of things along that where it's kinda remember how we got to. This is not enough for this cannonball. So we're talking about the at one point. There's not enough oxygen on the ship spoiler alert. There's not enough oxygen to survive. Something goes wrong. And he's like well we kill the navigator because the navigation is done like there's not enough for all of this and so like if we're going to survive he has to go and sort of an iron about the ethics of that and he's like there's no there's no ethics all go kill him. It's no problem for me. we're all dying anyway. It's a one way mission whether he does today or tomorrow gives a falker. Like it's all over so i think some people can get cutting to that monse with enough right. I can't share with you because there isn't enough right like if you have some of mine that means i will no longer be successful in dog training. This is the furthest from the truth. There is no shortage of people. Fucking up their dogs. We're talking about this the other day where people get very scared about the limelight from them. Have you seen that movie. He's got multiple personalities and he kidnaps these bills and one of them's called the based. I can't remember it's the second in that trilogy. I think it's split or something like that but frac show something like that. Yeah all these personalities. But they're all vying for time in the light all the personalities want to have the time and they talk about these categorically. Now say a lot of china's like this as well way they so fucking protective of that light. They just do not want to take it. Off this socking as much of that light energy is i as soon as another. China comes along with a little bit of talent. They're even trying to sabotage. That china is thinking fucking why. I don't want that lot going over to you. And i wanted to offer me like they're the epitome of that daffy duck where they going mine mine mine like a whole fucking powder gold and you could get rich from it but they know no. I want the light. It's all mine you can't have any. I don't want to stay any toward you. Give it all to me. And if fucking obsessed it like. They're so obsessed their whole life starts rotting out from underneath them and they don't realize that they become Swearing today glenn energy. Well it's a passionate topic of mind to be honest because thirty years in the industry you get to say a lot of people come and go and say a lot of people trying to destroy all the people in this industry. Yeah there's so many wonderful things about his dog training industry so many things i love about the and part of the reason that you and i and that we're doing some way more time to do this as well is that i love. This industry is industry. Supports me you know. These industry has given me so much. But it's taken so much. So that's where i want to get too down the line. Go on about that. So i think for sure what you've just spoken about. Is these people who really don't wanna poss it on. Because then you would be you would know as much or more than them right And that's special. That's that's their precious information. And they're going to use it. But they're not to disseminate it and they're gonna be careful how they do that in front of you. Who who they do that in front of so don't get passed on but there's another category that can be hard to distinguish from that and this is where we kind of have to be careful putting people into brackets like when we say. Oh you're one of them when you might actually be one of those where we say like if some people might ask you something. And i can't really answer that because i would. I have to tell you forty other things right. So what looks like. Yeah but that's what my main right. So what looks like to. You is a one liner yet. Why do you do that well because it stops this right and if you were to do that in oscillation maybe it would go really bad and i know that so. I have to just not possible in that information to because the collect. You're not ready to receive the whole package. You've seen the punch line by us. Ready to receive the whole thing. Or i'm worried about your foundation right so like if you have a particular foundation in dog training and then like you have a particular stall and i know how you go if you see me do something that would your trajectory would put that in a really on saif pliceman right so like you know if you're just a an example of this dog training would base. I use of punishment with tools right so like. I don't want some people saying what i would do with the call on dog because i don't want that would be the starting point and they. They might see that and then say. Oh that's how you fix that problem. You go yeah. That's lost like that final version. I'm giving the dog to that thing that he's trying to do is not the whole picture that he's the final pace and you see it be extremely effective for you. We'll watch but that's kind of lock. Lauding the birthday candles on the cake. The cake is what's actually fucking important. You watch me lot the candle. That's the finish pace. But i don't want you getting to setting the dog on foil because you forgot about the cake we i had to prepare. Don't had to end to get to that point in training where we're gonna go okay like these is way. We're going to make the behavior of he comes. He comes three big pops on that call right or prior to that. I developed a relationship with the dog of also showing the dog that i can bring reinforcement of pop showing the dog. Would i do want him to do. I've used some negative reinforcement with that prone to show him that it can be a guiding tool and then put him in a situation where he you know. I control arousal to make him make the right choice a few times. And then i finally put him in the highest state of arousal. Where like i intentionally booby-trapped the dog to make the wrong choice. So that i can show him the consequence for having made the wrong choice. And if i show you that and you just say that pace lotta people will then go off sweet. Got it right. We take the dog out in front of easter guy and we just crank him on the call and that will stop it. And so we might protect that pace of information and choose not to pass that on because salaciously. It's part of a small pace of pot of a much. Be a pizza and i think at some times depending on how well people at teaches they might choose to like pace knowing that they can easily explain the wrist but if they don't think that they can or if the student or the listener audience whatever is perhaps not going to be ready to receive that it's safe to not show that in peace yup so that they could be no misconstruing along the way. Yeah and that's certainly happened along the way with electric collars absolutely to use an analogy of what you speaking about now. Because i've spoken about something like this in the past whereas if you've got a jigsaw puzzle and you've been painstakingly putting it together. That's a lot of work to construct that especially when you don't know where all the pacers go but if somebody comes along and you've got like ten bits to go. It's very easy for them to come along. All this goes there and that one goes there and that one goes there so you're at the end and you can see where those paces easily fall into place. But they also don't know all the construction that had to go on around they can just say the end of the peach but they can't tell you how difficult was actually created. And as you said they are the barnes of ed or the foundations but that you are trying to build along the way The other thing that i've seen with this when we explain about why people don't want to share the information so readily and some of them. Aren't that bad person. We're trying to create are also people that are getting ready to mock it. Something and other people which i've seen happen in this industry. You've said thirty years industry say people do some pretty extreme things so what they'll do is the person will show them what they're doing. At in good faith that person will then take it from them and beat them to market hit. That is a horror of the person you know like. I've seen people do that before. And i think you absolute shocker of a human being you know. This person was ready to bundle up the job now. Some people say well you know. Fortune favors the bold. Whatever well go and get fucked. Yeah so. I can elaborate on that as well right so they might be two reasons. You upset about that right and certainly one would be the obvious. And that's the person is now whatever you've been working on whatever you've been getting ready to put it out there. They've eight youtube. They've taken the credit for it. They've got the money for that kind of thing. The other and this has happened to me is not finished yet. Right and so it misconstrued. Yes so you know like right now. I've just finished off in schools and there's some places i really say where you know i can like having spent so much time understanding power and really getting to the i understand that shit right right version of. I've been teaching it for a long time. And i've been using it. It's really successful. And i've just learned some really cool things from vendors. Well right some really awesome stuff. And i really i perfectly say how some of them are gonna to tile together. I've had that fall into place for me. And i see i'm super excited using it on a bunch of does you saw her out in the club the things that we bandaids on like little issues with domes that we had like a band aid holding together and it's going to be fine and was going to work we've now completely rented and fixed using putting those things together but like i'm still playing with that and i'm still bringing it together and the club as my it's my proofing ground Because everything that. I'm eventually going to put out and teach people and take money for teaching. I i have to teach to somebody and fuck up right because the last thing i want to put something out publicly and then realize it's not effective and go shit. It only worked dog right like it only worked. We've may doing it. And so therefore i have not passed like i'm not going to put something out. That only works a my dog right. I'm going to try it on a bunch of other dogs. But then before i teach it in a forum like this where i'm not there to say on an misconstrued. The it's like. If i'm gonna put it out people are gonna listen to it and going to do whatever they gonna do right. I need to have it work on my dog to have it work on other dogs in my hands then i have to explain it to somebody else and watch what they do with my explanation and i have to do that to multiple people so that i can go on this person saw day takeaway was this pot of it and the other person's takeaway was part of it and then i can develop a picture of like i've i've put the emphasis on the wrong thing or it's going up with the emphasis on there and need to teach that over and over and over and the club for me. Is that proofing ground right. The people who i trust to have that information and use it correctly. Use it in the way that they understand. And then i get to stand back and watch what they're doing with their dog and make sure that they're not going to call themselves initiation. Hold the fighting it. It's right and get to stand there and watch what they're doing and then go whoa stop. That's not what i meant because by the time make a video and put it online or by the time i mentioned something. You on these podcast. It's too late like someone could listen to it. That's and then they're into doing it with the mayday going. You've misunderstood so that's why i like. I'm reasonably good at this stuff on because it's not like just like spot at ease tested the exactly but so i can say to. Your point is when if you saying something to fellow trying to or they see you doing something you say. Hey it's something implying with at the moment right like this is where i'm going with it. And then they go like sweet got it they make a video explaining and you like faulk. Now it's out there and of saying that happened with the box yeah totally. I've seen multiple videos that have come out of the box that have been explained terribly. Yeah totally right. I'm guilty of that a little bit like you. That box episode that we did. This is my four of the podcast. This is episode hundred hundred and sixty one hundred and sixty one right so like. I've gotten better at tokyo. I'm caused that time teaching it and refining it. And that's what you do. I mean in order to be successful and to be able to have a long-term korea you've got to learn to evolve yet and that evolution and adaptation. We talk about that in the survival. Ism of spacey's well that's the survival of knowledge semination as well and you know you talking about things that resonate really well with me because again to bring up the old days one of the things that i really loved about. It was the think tanks we used to around the table and argue about philosophies and ideas and like would say no. No that's not gonna work and we'd say we'll get dogs. Let's prove it. Yeah i loved that. She and i know i talk about it fondly. It dies way. We did extensive experimentation on things like atf. Students will say something. And i'll say how did you do that. And i said that's thirty years said just trust me do what you're doing now. I just work on this. And i'll say and build your way up and i said this is the silliman tail enough talked about the film tale before. But this is the salem tale. You need two perfect. This is the foundations of everything. And i said ev- i can't do this thirty years off be described. I shouldn't be taking a gauze. Because i'll look at me and then i get slightly intimidated when i say simple skills but it's because i know how to do it and i can take a dog off them and the dog will respond immediately to me. They got hal. And i'll say by doing what you're doing now and then working up to it a practice. Yes i practice. And this time in the saddle using that metaphor when you talk to horse ride and you watch them ride a horse time in the settle to same thing like learning to play guitar like i'm being fumbling through it. I can finally hear music coming out on my fingers nail and might on if you know it guitarist do you know a person. That's fucking suffered because my fingers hurt. They don't hurt as bad now but they hurt so bad when i was learning and that is struggle. And that is sufferance. Like it fucking hurts debate and you can feel you can feel a hot bathe in all four of your fingers like my fingers feel like cardboard at the moment but it's paying off like i can he melodies and i can. I can stop to. My fingers are moving faster but and the same thing happens in dog training. It happens off the time. There's a lot like you've hands heard in dog training when you handling multiple dogs. Hundreds and hundreds of dogs like i've got mauled arthritis in my fingers and stuff like that from years and years and years of working lades of working dogs and just even tarting dogs in kennels time after time after time but there is no way that you'll learn those skills other than i having appropriate mentos and be tom in the saddle. Those things have to combine and also your acquisition of knowledge is well like cake and every liar is important because all of it has to stack up and you have to be in moment and you have to be present for all of that that they ingredients of that character to be perfect. Otherwise you know and again metaphorically and souffle will never rise and at warrant hold its composition if all of those ingredients and that perfect setting don't make saints Those are the reasons. I can think of right now as to why people may not want to pass on information. Get right and think. There's been certainly instances of that that i've encountered in my life because like others thinking really hot about this as i was listening to podcasts. Like where do i fit on the spectrum right like because sometimes and with some things i freely give away a lot of information and now the times. It's like no. We're on the clock like you have to pay me right and like how i get to that point and you know sort of interested in that in our member so i've been incredibly lucky through my life right from the early days when i really wanted to learn a lot about those got into it from hanging out with sam and the amount of information that he just gave to me right. Look i've never given him a cent and he's giving me so much information and fuck my dog. Fuck psych right. Like and had like i get that and the man of information from body and we used to you know all the shit that he's taught me over the years and like a lot of that for free also paid a lot and you have been to a lot of events of paid to go to a lot of seminars and i you've earned your knowledge you've earned you'll not so i've paid in time and all right i can tell you that in good faith i mean you know i've followed you along a degree your journey and i know that you have paid in blood sweat and tees all age well thank you but so i think back to win i i started coming out to the club here right before it was the pace club and it was just a dog training just hanging out of fog out from you then in like on how to run classes and so like i'd be incredibly lucky to have all these people coming to the right place at the wrong time throughout my whole life so i'm really acutely aware of that right like lock is a huge determinant in luck and being held by has been huge determinant in everything that's happened in my life but few years ago many years ago i remember somebody asked me something i can't even remember what it was if barack fucking brain trying to remember what the actual invoice was but somebody another dog china had asked me in a private message about something and i was like yeah this right like whatever it was and we had these like back and forth because you know in my mind i was talking to a p and that will it was just doing the army or just go now i can't remember and it was someone and it was just like he go he's the information back and forth you learned something cool like that's a little fund conversation and a couple of days light who maybe there's a way member somebody in the bounce symposium asked the same question and i looked at the comets and the person that i had these conversation with had said yell i can sort that for you. You'll need booker's session. And i remember thinking this fucking us because i gave you that information. And now you're gonna fucking sell the information that i gave you. Lucky you go given it for free and now you're gonna fucking sell it like how do you and it pissed me off a lot and it stopped me for a little while commenting and you know what i thought like. You say people do it less. And less as they need to develop clients or establish himself or whatever but you join these groups and you really active in the groups. You know throwing out your tips and having these conversations with people because i guess like a lotta thompson trying to establish themselves as like hey guys i know stuff right and and certainly i did that when you when you first sort of arrive in like i've been training for quarter wall like off law and then when i left the army has like. Oh wow there's a whole training community. I didn't know anything about right. Then it's like okay. Well why have to sort of online. It's not an ego thing although to an extent but you sort of like hey like. He's a bunch of answers to questions the punishment. It's a kind of punishment what it's a kind of party that you have those type of experiences because you know like in the past. I've paraphrased other people. And i've tried to give them credit for also boyd told me that or heard that s to sign that all pat said this or something like that and i will say the name of the person like i'll tag them into the knowledge that i cried now. I've heard people and saying them. Online paraphrasing things that i've generated and never giving me credit for it and then kind of like. Oh this is mine. I think you motherfucker know like that's mind like i agonized over coming up with that analogy. And you've used it and you'll getting all the fucking locks for it. I never said all heard from glenn. I know it's payday not payday. But sometimes it's punishment like you look at that and he just stew on those type of things we on this podcast like we've multiple times it all. We got this from this person. This person this person. But when i've seen it and read it and so forth and i've heard when i'm fucking ease when people have said and thinking how dare you what that is so rude and so disrespectful but people. Yeah so it's interesting to say the lines and like that is a situation for you. That is then like fuck you to those people for me. It was really like that concerns me less than when people want to sell something that i've given them like that really got on a mosquito and and it doesn't so much now but that's the difference. Well i think what's the difference. I think knowledge is like it's this real irish right so it's like song you give it to them and and maybe few agonized over everything that we just take for granted. It's you wrote a book okay and published a bowl. Can you had. And you saw somebody paraphrasing you online navy credibility for it. That's a legal issue. Yeah that's right so they kind of stealing from you well in a way. Yeah but it depends on the context in which they do that. Yeah and so you know literally everything that we do day to day like. You didn't invent london. I got back to this fine. Like i didn't invent this microphone using the fuck out of it. People are getting the boy. These microphone yeah. I'm gonna clue came to play. I just know that. I can pass it on but someone at road spent a long time putting this together and i learned it from somebody else in the industry to so for me it kind of. That's what it's kind of hard to explain. Like i'm not saying that. If i if i say something let me let me go back the example use where you agonize came up with this perfect example. Perfect way to explain a concept and you like into that and it was a work right to really figure that out and you beta tested it on a bunch of people and you try out all these different things and you say click and you try. Gangs spoke about the club you see. Click and you go. Yes i figured it out of finally got to the right point. No one knows you did that. So when you put at this info to a new person that's common dog fuck because it's just the right. They don't know that there was thirty. Used led to that point. That's just the way it is. And that's how knowledge is right. It's the relay rice and again. I've used this example thousand times. But i just think that it's the best. Is we all you sent us pat and all in one day. We've like. I'm gonna go to the hardware store. I'm going to get these apps to make them. Look like this and i'm gonna teach dogs had to imprint on that i now it's just what you do the everybody just does it and so the amount of people that would say like. Oh how do i in print. I just get these jubes. Macchiato makes really good ones and sells them. You could go the hot. Yeah like the fact and just throw it out there. But a bit pat nolan at doesn't look at that and go like. Oh you mother fuckers. May i highly doubt that either. Such a gentleman. But so you know what i mean like. That was hot fucking noli that he probably was a pioneer. I love using this example. People probably have pat with sick of hearing about it but like to me. It's a bedrock thing because it's just common doke fox what everybody does people know that. Or is that now me saying dog fuck East common knowledge. I think it comes from you. Don't have to take the fuck fuck like i've just been educated so it's common knowledge. It's just what you do just do that. Yeah no he. We can go back to him as we think he missiles he doesn't even take credit for it. He says he's a first person he knew if he didn't learn it from someone else he thought about it but maybe somebody else somewhere it was doing. It looks at him and he's made to obama at just like kicks. They and fucking dashboard and they like no. I did that in the fifties. Not when he did it. In wherever like so all these things that are hard four they passed on and it had to have come from somewhere and of acknowledged that not to say. I'm not shaping your experiences. I've certainly have had that. We've seen someone quote you. The obeyed them and i have had that for sure and i actually had. I think on the podcast once as well. I had a very gratifying experience to say some follow up questions. They couldn't answer. Yeah it's like good luck and didn't come to their rescue. Even when they were when they eventually tag new. I was like oh no contents so that right sounds like not you're on. You're probably wouldn't do that anyway. Without that sending pay these people in the industry. Who wouldn't know who. I am and wouldn't have nine that i've ever said or anything like that. Like i've seen them say things before and i thought that spain echoed through the night. But when it's somebody that's been close to you and you nari that they've grabbed it off you and then taken it and like marketed. Were on again. I know that's probably being a little bit patey bat. Tom are saying that. And i thought you son of a bitch whereas if it was may reverse and i heard off them. I'd say oh. Got this from them yet. But you would so long as you knew that it really was from them and that there was work that went into it. Like it's possible that both of us have just echoed things that we've heard thinking like like i love listening to jay. Talk about the way. Try and stoves. Because he is a teacher of many things and has great analogies and has ways to explain each and so i've been guilty to stealing plenty of things and i usually will say you know. This is something. I got from j. Because i genuinely liked the idea of crediting but also dan wave people want more detail on that or if that really resonates with them the original wanting to know where to go back to the source. Yeah i listen to all the dog training conversations pocus. I listen to a bunch of jays. Gfc we're not a all the jesse ones and but a bunch of jack on sensitive select probably still a shift from him and don't even realize and maybe they were hard for things that he agonized over and sat there with these notebook and really try to figure out and it's just so ingrained in may that i'm residing his words without realizing it and they have full. I don't give credit. That's totally possible as well. It's a complex kind of thing right. I think we've had this discussion multiple times even when we've just been sitting at the shed and talking. I mean we all borrowed this material. Like i think skinner pavlovian thorndike and all of those people that we references the great behaviorists. Who sort of set out the foundation for everything. They be rolling in grave. They probably listening to us if they comeback is or if they're in the room spirits now listening to us if you hear thanks if they could behind you sons. A bitches like that stuff's mine. We usually say that to say this is from skinner or something like that. Yeah i reckon means geena if there is a skinny goes kyrie. We would have a complex relationship off because i speak so holly over. In some cases they fucking shit matthew. Now that it's like it's amazing to me how correct he's a great example of how the time well he amazingly correct. He's about some things devastatingly wrong his about others like it's quite it's amazing and like the whole not. Everybody is always right. Yeah like he's whole idea of errorless. Learning has destroyed many folks. Yep n people Right like has probably driven to suicide. Yeah because they have like people of raised kids in errorless learning and then when they leave that nest and they go out they fucking crumble. It's one great thing at the sacrifice of many others might so one of the interesting things in the army at the moment is because the world and like the whole you copy main to anybody kind of thing that's encouraged in the army to it to an extent and what's happened is it only in the training establishments because they are the ones that are accountable to that kind of sense right because they're out to ios. They registered training organisations. Just like you know you are as as person right so like there's a standard that you have to make bully people and you copy main to them and all that stuff which is fair and true and you should. That should be the case. But what happens is these people join the army. They go to basic training and it's like ukiah still. There was a period. They were trying to. You could like yellow your instructors if to main to you could be like. Hey you have to stop like that's main to herreid. So what happens in warfare but your enemies. I don't even get them because what happens is so. There's this whole generation of kids in yami basically that would baby through their training. And so what happens if you do. You'll basic training. Everybody does not matter no matter what job you're gonna do you where you you learned on your fucking bed and no condom shit right and then you go to your employment training right you. I tell your diesel employment trying. We learned skill of what you're going to do in the army and that's trying to establish has well and so i went to basic training at caputo and i was an infantry while it was what ended up being pastas special forces platoon. A little bit different. And then you go to the school of infantry where you get there and you swing your arms. And i remember the like when i got there because you drive in the middle of the night you arrive and this playing everybody gets off and you just left bootcamp. You'll swinging your arms like a like you do your magin the strictest the army. I remember the judy yelling at us. Like stop swing. Your fucking idiots. Kill is not drillers. Yeah and i was like oh this is different right but anyway the your employment training as then they're naci because they give you a qualification teaching you things so what's happening is it's like these errorless. Learning copy main to everybody. Everybody gets retests into us to tell people they've filed anything because that will upset them. You have to go. I'd them to understanding it blah blah blah blah and. Say the word test satisfactory. Not only right. Yeah so that exists. All the way up to your training is complete. And then you go to your actual job inside and goes you will be at this place at this time or i will fucking destroy you like i will charge you. Take your money. It's back to the real world and these kids crumble right. Because they're not prepaid for the army they've been in this like we'd false little space. These errorless learning. No one can get anything wrong. Don't worry you'll be helped to god at no ever be remained to you. If somebody's two major you can complain. You can go see like the equivalent of human resources you can. You can get out of this. There's no consequences you can do. Whatever the fuck you want. If you say your instructors bad into he'll get fired dry kinds of stuff and then you go into the real world and it's like there's nowhere to go and the enemy doesn't apply by those rules that even get this doesn't really exist so much in the arms closer who actually going to be fighting but in the support goes. It's really bad so like you. You try and as a mechanic in the army and you've been fully trying to open. Its this whole like errorless learning process. Then you get to your unit and you fixing. Abc's or whatever and they're like you didn't do this right they yell at you. They expect you to be somewhere on time. If you're not like they can charge you that taking money. Take care of you. There's all these kind of things there's consequences like in the normal world and people fall apart because not prepared for that errorless learning and the consequences of it. And i mean it's exactly what we say in dogs when people who like ana airless learning never let the dog being a position to get it wrong. We he will eventually and you haven't prepared him for what will go is very. That's the dangers of that. And so it was all about that skill is the it heirless learning guy. I think that's a problem with a lot of early. Mentors is that you can't take everything. My did as the sage advice. And that's the only advice to go with like it still safe to question people to ask questions and to realize that. Sometimes i just didn't have all the right answers. And this i know you do and i know that i do and multiple great teachers that i've worked with over time. They encourage people. Ask them questions and also if they if they presented with better information. I'll take it on board. Yeah i'm replacing like jaded. When he worked out that he was getting married advice. I ju jitsu guy when he suffocated him in front of students. He said okay. Everything that we've done in the past sheet closing. Dan and we're going to learn this why it's fos superior than what we've learning. I mean jeez that takes a great deal of fortitude to be out of do something like that in front of all your students and say i'm not taking anymore. I'm shutting wind dan. We're going to learn from him and then rebuilding yourself and restructuring yourself onto that. That's pretty amazing. It's ray that's it's very she's getting good plug j. Well he's a very good instructor describes best. I love listening to that guy. Talk because it's real world and he's really not about the bullshit yup very much like he allowed you know. Have you fucked something up at. That's all we have very similar personality in some ways. Yeah yeah so back to the topic. Disseminating information why you wouldn't really heavily covid Why you should write and the terms under which people will do that. So some people straight up. Give away everything Right like absolutely here is everything that i know. And you know a lot of those people not dope china's so they don't actually make any money overwhelmingly the majority of the really good dog china zano and not professional china's just like its hottest. Yeah and that's what keeps it pule for them. I think like they don't get involved in any of the bullshit. And i'd never tigon anything that don't want to like. They literally ride a black. You don't want to royd right. You never no one ever turns up in some motorbike that you'll like fuck after roy. These fucking thing like that doesn't happen to you because it's a hobby. No one's paying you to ride a bike. So i think for the people who just straight hobey. Don't try and make money out of it. Just do it. Because they love it. Does china some of them. By far and away the best and a lot of them will pass on information hundred percent willingly and freely because it isn't of any value to them it doesn't have a monetary value. That's what i there's nothing to be exclusive and they're happy to talk dogs because it's their hobby. They're like finally someone that wants to listen like you know like if if they and the other guy at the party and this is certainly you know what i was before our professional china they the one you know people talk about the at the dina potty. Don't let anyone know your china will soon be giving no training. Well i used to be like. Hey guys i'm doug trader like who wants free of us because that's all i'm interested in talking to you idiots about i wanna talk about which fucking north and folk we use i miss. Let's talk about something that i'm interested in. That's what i'm heavily interested in when she job. Now it's like shit feel like i'm at work by then it's a whole nother thing a passion so i think that's a reason for sure people want to give away knowledge as much as possible thing now. The reason has always kind of hypothesizing this is like it's that the circular nature of it in that by giving your safe. And so if i'm gonna just openly share with you or someone has to take the first step and so maybe you then openly shared with me and maybe out to ideas combined. Come up with a fantastic. Maybe they'd tell together. You've got the pace. I'm missing that. I've been looking for whatever and so that could be another reason that i think people just think tanking situation multiple minds can look at it because sometimes you looking at it from a two dimensional point of view. You never really discover the solution that you've been looking for where somebody add to third dimension or now the dimension to it and you think that's something i would never have thought of like stuck fast on a a mindset that you'd not willing to look outside that and if so close to the problem but you can't say the solution where to somebody else they looking at it and they saw he's a solution and thinking i would never have come at it from that angle. I really appreciate that when you can come together with peas and colleagues and it just. It makes life so much easier looking outside. The box is really important thing. I read a book. Many many many years ago there was a party in talking about inventors and a lot of inventors have to traits right. And so what happens. A lotta the time for like you know not who are. Professional event is but people who've things problem right is because plastic leaping the clips now used to be putting up like jeep broke or whatever you had to pack out the wall and now they got the starts. That's just common everybody using that you put them on. And then it's got a variable thing on it we attach the broker to you can make it level. Does a terrible job explaining something. I don't really know the guy that invented. That was a weld like a machinist yup and then got sick of doing that and then was working in construction and was packing out world. Pasta and was like this is stupid. Why we're doing it this way. I could make a clip that will change his revolutionized the way that you allege it broke right now because he had a set of skills that dovetailed into another set of skills. And i feel like. That's one of the cool things about win. Pet dog trying to go talk to detection guys or bomb dog. China's talk to gun dog trainings and all that kind of stuff because then you go like oh wait. What right so does movie film dog stuff. And i don't know shit about that. I know absolutely nothing about it. But then there's some spots where i go all. That sounds like detection. Like i know how to do that. Like you need a dog to do a behavior and be focused that way. That sounds a lot like a funnel conditioned response for oda even though. That's not what's happening. But i know how to try. And that so i probably will work and we can. We can collaborate. We can talk and figure things out together because we have. We're talking about the same concept but from different approaches. And i'm sure some of what i say she probably just goes like just humans me and let me say it out loud because it's totally irrelevant but getting jim perfectly together. So i feel like that's a really cool reason to be putting out knowledge and having those conversations then i thought this is sort of a sinister way that people put out knowledge as well right. Like we're gonna talk about the whole gamut you talking about misinformation yell So the fish shore there's people who put out bullshit information so that people want chasing around the real information right to like intentionally lay a false track. Yup which. I think socks yeah it does and i think he doesn't raise the roof it well. It's not in the interest of doak slack. I think overwhelmingly what we're all doing and this is kind of the point. I mean they gave away the punchline of where this was all going is like we're all trying to increase the lives and like the the quality of life trying to raise the ceiling pet dogs and the the workability of working dogs. We're all trying to push that forward and if you give misinformation then. You're not doing that right like you. I'd probably decreasing the quality of life of pet dogs decreasing the ability of working dogs by giving away that museum formation. One of the things. That really does puzzle. Me is the amount of like if you probably look at decades ago. And i've had the good fortune of being in it and probably the unfortunate situation being in it but if you look at it whereas it was bad training thirty years ago. It puzzles me that that training has still survived and still being passed along like it's still a mantle that spain pasta while the people like that really puzzles me and i guess one of the reasons it really does puzzle me is that we've got the internet and we've got social media and so forth and you've actually got so many videos that you can watch all the people do so much great work like as you said there's so much information out there that's disseminated. That's free free to access like you become a great traina with watching free content. That people have put online. If you're intelligent enough and you pace it together well enough and you can categorize it and you understand where it fits into the scheme of your time line in training you can do some wondrous things yep but yet the thing that does puzzle me is how did all the shit that spain around a long time ago still manage to survive. The people still got it like a cherished sacred alien. They've passed along to each other. We're people show it to me. I'll say shit thirty years ago. Get rid of that. It's no good like talking theory about a china. That was old thirty forty years ago. I just don't understand that it's funny. You say that. So now that i'm mad youtube. Oh yeah one of the projects. I'm working on. I feel bad for my dog that i'm doing this because i'm actually teaching him to get. This isn't going to be out for a long time. Because i have to teach him to do some wrong things. Yup just to get the job going wrong just kind of annoying. I wish that i am doing it. I'm talking sore throat. The other day talking about why should never ever let the dog. The dumbbell and i was like That's interesting because the person who saying i was like with your knowledge. Set your right. You should never let the dog drop the dow bill anytime your in your closed system. It's important that the dog never drop the dumbbell But if you're outside that system it doesn't matter for shit. Yup and i'm trying to show a making video of the reasons why would drop the dumbbell and things like that and so one of the things i'm doing is i'm wrecking intentionally wrecking rameez. Hold up because it's a long time before we can again. So i'm happy to do it in that he's retrieve i am putting my hands on whatever holding and then telling him to at so before too long eventually he's gonna. The problem is of not doing it. Yeah but he will eventually speed that out. As i go to put my hands on it and it will fall to the floor and i need to show that to show. How did they fix it. I've got to create it so anyway. That's that's appropriate for the future. But that idea of sometimes at voices one hundred percent correct for one. You're doing within a closed system yet. Maybe that system is not the best system. But you see people sort of the hamersley saying like no. This is very important. Cornerstone of the way that i teach these thing that the dumbbell never fall to the floor. Say yeah that's very important. But like i teach it differently and day four. It doesn't matter at all. In fact i want it to happen But if you not up to date on we we've done a whole website on staying up to date on information like some people motivated to some people on and somebody would if you like some of the old older sort of what we might call like dinosaurs and have facebook there now youtube right like like they're not they're not even aware of this information out there that's right so that fades next pace. Sometimes i think the other reason why people might put out information and i think we could all be a little be. Guilty of this is the aarp. Which is what. I already spoke about way. You'll sort of establishing yourself friday. Go and tribalism really big blockers in this work so a lot of the times you say some people putting out a lot of information really good information and it sort of ego bison and certainly opping guilty of that like i say i to. All of us have yeah like. I'm not really interested in helping you out of your issue. I'm more just letting you know that. I know the answer and in doing that. I kind of have to give you the answer. But i'm just saying like hey guys look at me. Look at all the answers and i feel like sometimes. That's one of the reasons we all could probably be giving away information. Well i think sometimes not all the time. I'm just. I'm thinking things through. But i think sometimes the dogging street can make zero's heroes like he can go from zero to hero in a very short amount of time because you can collect your little tribal of yup. And that's very empowering sometimes when you've got a band of people that are listening on everything you say and then you think well i wanna lose this little tribe of yes people. I've fallen me around. And like it's getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And i still need to be the guru Sometimes that todd shrug totally. Yeah yeah it's intoxicate. Yeah that's the right word to say it's hard to let go so feel like of tiktok all the. Oh the other thing. Dan was these different ways of disseminating information so these kind of relates a little bit too just talking about dinosaurs who don't use anything online. The wife nation comes out. These days is really interesting right so i was going to write a book. I thought you know like. I know some stuff. This is worth putting out there and having a book is a genus sequoia about having being. Yeah i'm not an author but to say like i wrote this book the prestige and these days you can publish can self published. You don't need a deal like it's easy enough to turn into a book and you know like i know people jane's illustrated's some kids books for people that that didn't have self published fulton's book at the guy that does our inter on halfway through a book that i've been sitting on for like threes. Now yeah so. There's this thing as kind of like that's the way you do it behind this nine money in books like sometimes. I'm not writing a book for money and this book. This bigger i. I'm not writing. Why would you disseminate that information. Because it's a manuscript of something. I need to say. Okay why they need to say it. Well i feel that. It's therapeutic. And i also feel that people could benefit from things that happened to me how. I've benefited from the industry. The book is not a dog training book. It's a. I don't really wanna say the word self help because it's not a self help will come not a psychologist or anything like that. But it is a collection of thoughts of hell. I went from falker to being saved getting my shit together. That's the barnes of the book. It's a manuscript of that. I think that maybe some people some people might go. That's an i story. And other people might rate. I can resonate with that. And if there's ten people around the world that read it and get that out of it and it helps correct. They path did mine a happy guy. So you kinda just proved my point. And i'm glad you said that because i feel exactly the same way. I think that writing a book is more like he's my story. Yes for me. It's therapeutic to get adam my head and kind of unkind outing myself a little bit like talking about some of the damon's things that scared me and things that made me feel vulnerable but in the same way putting it on a page is making me feel like i'm getting rid of the like it's out and letting guy. Yeah that's great. I want to read it. Yeah so books. I think people read and enjoy those kind of books better and if you're like an instruction manual kind of a how to they so for like thirty bucks right. Yeah and print them their physical thing. They've got to get to people. There's a lot of work involved in that. Whereas i have an online course that sell for way more than you could ever charge for book. It's five hundred bucks for this online strategy. Could you imagine paying five hundred dollars for a book. But if i had lindsay's books pretty up there. The handbook applaud. But they're there yeah true. They're they're three manuals joint fucking book and also if you're into behavioral sciences and you haven't got these like he is the king of reference and it textbooks enemy for dog trainers so that's ways of getting information out. If you're a book rada mostly you're going to be spending about thirty or sort of range and now you're gonna get books that are worth that but if you're not an online costumer that's how the real hardcore info getting around these days right. That's the kind of thing because you look at it and you go look like i'm a person who has knowledge to pass on whether i make cooking videos or whatever there's a prestige to releasing a cooking book because it's beautiful and it goes on the table and loss people will share that around and you want people to your book. That's one of the things you kind of want. Like you want people to read it inside of if i know my god you have to read this because it's the story that you're getting out there and you want the cooking book. I want that to sit on your table. And i won't people when you're sitting around talking and having a coffee of someone to kind of be absent mindedly flicking through that and say a pretty pitcher and think i'm gonna make that orbit your home and you make them nice. And where'd you get this and he said recipes in this book and he showed them the book right. And it's got your name on it there's a prestige to that. But if you're just passing on like hardcore info tutorial videos is that's how everyone knows that these days so much more efficient the like icon. Read a book. Yeah book these days. Like i do audiobooks. I'm traveling like i've always called an audio book. Playing in the car. I try to raid. Can i used to raid a lot right like school. And when i was an wines too preoccupied now to sit down and turn the page. Yeah when i was in the luck this so much. Hurry up white right. So it's like you. You just spinning literally die seating in hanging with fines. No nothing right. So books is all there is in the books. Pasta around and fuck might the amount of books that i read ball deployed heaps us. So been trying to read this book literally us now like i just can't get through it but so those educational hardcore. I wanna learn no joy. I wanna poss online. Only i wanna learn. Instructional videos is where it's at and there's a couple of foams of instructional videos. There's there's ones that have just put out for free. Hey look at this. And maybe that's the whole information or maybe it's a teaser. To like the real that you go to pay for right like this or some people put out stuff like because i'm obsessed with photography and stuff at the moment like i'm what you can learn everything online. It's all day. I taught myself to weld online. If i read that from a book. I just don't think i would've bena would really get it. Well that's probably not true. I would have gotten it. But i would have gotten in such a long time with so many cops where i was watching a goal i and i reckon within a week i was stitching. Plights together perfectly. Yep so that camera just bored. Yup there is on youtube from patriot. Yes thank you. Pedro paypal you to reap the benefits of it. But it's a very nice camera. yes it is. And there's a three hour instructional video boy photographer online on how to use it like and i'm talking the specifics of how to sit on using those people that they've just given the world so he explains it's very interesting he explains that. I'm gonna teach you how to use these camera. I haven't online course on how you can take photos with it and how to make the photos with wall taking. I'm not teaching you that on these the pace of the knowledge i'm giving you is the tech specs of how to push the buttons on the camera right actually framing show and making shot with taking. That's an online course that i have. You appreciate that guy now. Don't you wanted to buy his goals. Even she's top of photography has nothing to do with. what are we doing. yeah. I wanted to buy coast just because i appreciate so much. He's fucking three hour video or push the tarring course. There was gone online. Fucking giving like he gives hate that. Utah oriels away. He's got a small. Coal city does on knowing the freight bored. Because i'd like him and i resonate with the mental. Think you're awesome. You've given so much content to why benefited so much from all your agonizing hard work yup and i want to support you which is what happens with us in the patron right exactly so yeah we can say the downloads of everybody that follows that up and only probably two thirds of the people who are immature and actually consume the content out there to support it. Because like i like the effort that you put in spends hours now is making this so some people are in there because like pat videos and if it's five minutes late there's video and pull them a patriot supporter but then other people like fuck the patriots. I only of a dean that one time. We're not putting the money. Because i appreciate that however long we will you spend three hours more getting it together. Every how this podcast goes three times in editing. Yeah like there's different reasons. People would do that okay. So spoken a lot and i get into the punchline so as i was driving at least in these podcasts then you've got to semi of knowledge and i'm thinking there's people who pass on information is people who don't have people do it for free. There's people that charge. And i'm all of those i'm all of those and there's reasons why all of them at different times at any one stage hopefully never feed into those asshole categories right. But there's reasons why i would do it. All it's complex. It's not as simple as like. Oh you should give away everything you shouldn't ride or you should charge you. Shouldn't it's difficult going through that at the moment with her. Course she's to start this so we just had that conversation with and that's was smiling the whole time because i was thinking. These actually is what i've been thinking about the last six hours so i think it comes down to these fa me. I allocate at a period of time every week to just putting out information. That's these focused right and some social media time so that is sometimes very good information. Sometimes it's just main you talking bullshit by of allocated that period of time. And i put it out there and it's free paper can get it when people than say to me. Hey can you elaborate. Or when people say what. Episode of the podcast. Was it where you said this. That's where i go not. You're on the clock. Yeah you have to pay me for that information. What i think is the difference is when i just go. Here is information take-it-or-leave-it. I'm happy to do that for free right but when people go like. I want specifics. Or i want that information curated. They bought into your work on me. But then that's my work passing on information so when you cure right for me. That's the line in the sand. Were i go okay. that's that's work like. I have chosen a period of time to pass on information. The only reason i would not pass on information is if it's not ready to go so i think that's really for me. That's kind of an ethics thing like i. It's no good information. I don't wanna put out bad information. Although i'm sure i do know that you and i do it to where test pilot with people like and that's we do give the information away. 'cause you put it out scrutiny and you say to people can you look over these for me and tell me what the bugs our will calls for me so i can totally because i just don't want to go with my so i'm just putting it out there and you don't get to choose what you hear that's totally. It's very the only reason i would hold back. Is if it's not good information. So i keep that to myself until it is but then when people say i want specifics. That's where you go. That information probably already is out. But if you don't wanna look for it you want me to raise it. That's where i have to charge you. Because i was thinking like the online that i have. It's like its own bogas but it's not curated it's put into the right order and that's why i was thinking about him. I this dragon that sits on the gold. Like no no like. I don't mind charging people for that because it's in the right order right. Those videos alight out on the screen in the correct sequence and you should watch them in order which say anything because one will enable you to understand the next right but a lot of that information is here and if you can figure that out exactly as you said before if you can put all those pieces together and get that in line then you've got all the info right but what you're saying is your charging fast-tracking. Yeah or foster full specifics. Forgetting what you want right now said the info comes out free and maybe on interested in that right now right and in two years where you go shit. I am interested in that you can choose to go back and find it or if you say to me. Hey what was it you say then. Cool like you have to pay me. And i will tell you again right like because i i know where that is or god that in my head i can say that so i think i fit into all the categories reasons for each. That's not unlike paying a gym membership. Right go along. Pi very small amount of money to to join a gym. You go in. You can do your own stuff. Yeah if you wanna personal china to go in there and show you little nuances about how to develops it and muscle say it's all develop your program. You go pay him. And why wouldn't you sound like you're buying a service at that point in time. Where you saying. Now i want as you said. Now i want. Specifics the specifics. Because you can get like literally you can google any exercise movement. You want And is trudeau oriels on how to do it. But what the reason is someone standing next to you saying on your binning your back. It's like i said last week in the up where staff at bay. Jj he saved me so much time just showing me one move where always going over and over and drilling the same thing. It was a mistake. And i talked about this wallich always qatar. Vaughan said to a young guitarist. Daren't kate practicing mistake slowdown yeah. That advice is invaluable. And you know like if you have to pay someone for that. What's that worth. Yeah yeah so anyway. That's kind of all have on that. I think if you still listening what you've just heard me do for an hour. And however long it's been needs justin cowed information and how we get it. And i think there's probably more to it if i thought about it for long. I think there's always something to it. There's always something more like everything you talking about. You could always add something to it. Yeah that'd be a whole show on every that's right. There's another chapter always. Yeah that's the beauty about you know like when we talk about this podcast. This podcast in a way was al manuscript as well because as i said the paradigm was originally the title. One of my books. I was going to ride but i kind of thought. There's so much more to say and having you as my car pile it on the show that the two of us could buy talk about things and experiences that we've had. This is an online manuscript talking about alive our experiences at thoughts feelings about things. There's so many chapters that evolve and you know the great thing about this as well is as we said earlier if we change their mind on something we can correct it through lighter episodes as you say listen to early things and then come back and listen to say hey hang on a second you said this episode four why he changed mind now because we're entitled to all the information we've attained now is better than what we had start. Yeah and that's the evolution about. That's a great thing about having these podcasts. Not on the album is that you enjoy listening to is. It's constantly evolving just a wonderful time. Line that you can different things and say hey you know what i learned something inviting today and i wanna share with you. Yeah so that's it. Yes hopefully enjoyed that. I wanted to the tunnel a little bit because for this year. My new year's resolution even it's not really a resolution. But what i like a goal i have ease feeding two thousand twenty one to think out loud. I want to just be a bit more sort of engaging and sort of think things. I always think things through but sort of the content that i put out. I want to obey a bit more about the journey rather than just like. He's a bunch of facts. We spoke about that last week and we sort of started doing that in the patriot staff. And i'm going to be making content. That sort of goes along those journeys. And and i'm really kind of sas with nuanced understanding at the moment. Just like you know really if twenty twenty told us anything in the us election and all the bullshit and everything is that things more complex than they say like you've got you've got to look at one set of issues you get your news from a maim spilling it as facts like he got to look under the surface of things and that's a good point i was gonna say what's on the surface doesn't rely what's underneath yeah it's a critical thinking. That's it and i feel like that's part of what i want to try and bring into the show this year one. Not all right sharada. Yes all right. That's it for the first episode of twenty twenty one to twenty twenty one. Be good to place lease. Hey 'cause if you'd like the show it would be so cool if you could. Just we finally puck go rhino Whatever subscription service. You download us from just come in. Yes be like. Hey right move. You cannot read all the reviews every one of them every single one that that i've got on any platform. I always make the time to read and appreciate that. Somebody took the time to write asher. Yeah it is cool. We'll do that. Yeah and it really helps other people find the show so you found it helpful. That big like what's really cool is if you write down why you found it helpful because then people will be like that. Seems like a whole flu show. Oh listen to that. Have you seen the traffic that we're getting lightly all of a sudden like this. So many people joining the discussion group like this probably at least twenty a day. Usually that happens because in some other group up says such thing as bad levels. That's right. I'm happy to have them happy from debate pot of community. And if they're enjoying it and they want to stay in contribute and be good part of go wonderful little tribe that we've created together. Did you say that. May sit around the other day of maury as a rick from recommendation. You'll booze no nothing to me of sane. What you applaud for us. I love it. Doesn't that jason walker. Put that probably. Yeah jeeze got. Some good may have some great names. He's he's he's competing with katrina house going to say if if there's a main queen he's saying he might be the king cheese measuring the aluminum children maybe on yup. I put show patriotic way to do it. Get in get excited about it folks. I'm excited appreciate all supporting the three bucks. A month is starting. Tell all your friends around. Yeah yeah the love. The linked to join patriot not the content of the yes but got no money on him on. It's not the end of the world but it's cheap we're not. We're not charging a fortune for patron. Yeah that's true. no. I mean like sometimes i can see in the statistics. People share things outside of the patron all. Yeah it's not the end of the road. I'm want If if you think it's good and you shared around just because it helps us the cool way to support. The show is with wool tapestries. Yes has got them confirmed. Yeah the photos. Well she's getting shit together. Do a ninety one wrapped around the other day right. So that might have dylan anderson it. Yep she was thinking about it but she's getting training shed set up. And she's to put a tapestries in so she does support the show and she did buy tapestries. She's the one to bore paper with more personal information right now. My house is like a bomb. Went off in it. Because we're we're we're kind of renovating much as you can within the townhouse and i'm sitting up a new office and i think i probably need a wall tapestry. He for the the background you absolutely do. That's probably need to jump into taste bring and auto onto you. Let me to get one for you and for me this room we probably have tapestry need 'em we need those heads if we're getting onto tastes we those we haven't yet. I will organize them. We need headbands. Everybody gets sofa headband. Because it can be a mosque right. Like it's it's it's like a net guida. We all were in mass. Yes we're in the rep up so yes putting the show t spring get into their if you wanna talk to us. That's why i do. That's the discussion group getting a dog trying to have a chat. Whatever do today. But as a personal nature you could email us we info at canine paradigm dot com and you have never seen an email get as much spam as we do so am. I lucky if you're going to get back to you improve. Ceo fucking hell. Yeah what's the name. Eric that just keeps coming out. We've got a block that yeah every day. He wants to help us build a website and get more traffic. You know feels like mafioso. What's that is these fucking people who spam us saying that we need to spam protection. Because they got into a box. That yes i have. I'm not a pacifist. But i'm leaning that way but even that makes me wanna fucking goddess dump. They head right when people like. Hey you need ban protection because my spam email got into your inbox. I gotta tell you. A quick story before infuriates me. I used to make a small living off selling yadav stable yet right so one of the deals that i used to have with people is i said to him if you can leave one hundred dollars in your office on the table. If i can get in their posture dogs. I take the hundred dollars and then we talk about the training. Dogs replacing now might all used to like it would take me about thirty minutes to get into the place so that was one hundred dollars for thirty minutes where just a walk through the dogs and let celtic dogs. Do them all trying them form. That was awesome little gig. That is good gig. Bit mafia said yes like but it worked employees me oral or smasher for well. I just wanted to know. I didn't have enough to smash the we used to show people how easy it was to get into. The business passed the dogs. Yeah in honest if you use my tricks to get through them. All the people can too so exploited. Awakeness i did some. That's another story. Is that it yeah okay.

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Taking Bot Testing to the Next Level with Dylan Zwick

Digital Conversations with Billy Bateman

32:08 min | 6 months ago

Taking Bot Testing to the Next Level with Dylan Zwick

"Welcome back to digital conversations with Billy Bateman. This week. We are thrilled to have dylan. Zwick CEO poll slabs. Join us in this episode. He's GONNA walk us through his testing process, and Best Practices for building bought so leverage tools and create value for you user. Alright everyone welcome to the show day today have the pleasure of being joined by Dylan, Swick the chief product officer Pulse Labs Dylan. How you doing man? I'm doing great. Thank you so much for having me today. And he ever really looking forward to it. Yeah, you know I'm I'm excited to have you I saw you went to the University of Utah and and I'm a Byu guys, so we decided to. Over this interview is over. I'm not going to bring up that we haven't won a football game. Like a decade. But but I'm excited to. Have you Abby, talk about what you guys are doing with with voice skills, and so before we get into that, though tell us just a little bit about yourself and your background and how you got into to working with voice. Yeah so I as you mentioned I. I'm actually from Salt Lake City and grew up in Utah and. Spent some time in California but was finishing my PhD at the University of Utah and. That's actually when I met my co-founder. WHO was working Goldman Sachs time on there? Actually he was a programmer for their kind of high speed, trading system, and so we actually met as as Jim Buddies as workout funding, so that's sort of a non traditional way of meeting your co founder. Usually someone that you went to school with is somebody that you that you'd worked with professionally, but I'd actually got to know and met and. Became friends with my co founder as a as a workout, but yeah, no, so I was i. WAS FINISHING MY PHD at the University of Utah and then I worked at overstock dot com as a data science just and then as the director of data science for them, so I was kind of the the head of the data science group it overstock and then in two thousand, sixteen. I started getting into Alexa and. Your Voice Applications and these voice platforms and. Thought that it was you know this was going to be. Essentially people have been. Wanting to talk to computers, wanting to talk to technology for as long as computers take on been around, but it's always been the domain of science fiction. And you know when I started playing around. Okay, this is actually. The NFL us-backed of it and the the voice recognition aspect of it is is actually reaching stage where it's transitioning into science fact, and that's going to be A. Critical part of Human Computer Human Technology Interactions You know voice I think is going to be your one of if not the primary means of interacting with the essentially the Internet the Internet of things, and so you I want. I got into it I started. Playing creating Alexa skills You're trying to figure out if there's a way that I could incorporate it into some of the work I was doing professionally and then a be, and I co founder and I. We started doing We started researching. A what the needs were out there in the voice community. And what we found out was that the? The biggest need that we saw was understanding how real people were interacting with these devices Helen how they wanted to interact with these devices in what problems they would have and that was because most of the design. most of the design experience we have with human computer. Interactions is based around a fundamentally visual paradigm. And so designers and developers that had essentially been trained and built their careers on. You know on this paradigm. Didn't really hadn't learned yet. The the differences that exist within a conversational type of interface particularly within a voice interface, a lot of things that are really. Good practices and visual design are actually bad practices, invoice, design and vice versa. So we kinda built. We built a prototype for what eventually became our product, and we started doing a fair amount of customer, research and were. Accepted in to the Alexa accelerator, which was a startup accelerator that was a joint project between techstars. Seattle Amazon. And so we got into that you. Can Be it developed from a from a side project into. Into a fulltime job that was. Extremely still working your regular jobs. When were yeah, so we were? We were I was still at overstock, and he was, he had actually moved to New York. You'd gotten a promotion. He was in a more of a product management role at Golden Sachs, but Yeah, we got into. We got into the the Alexa accelerator and Realize that we were you know. We we we we either had to say no. We weren't doing this or commit to doing it one hundred percent so. We, both moved I moved from. SALT LAKE TO SEATTLE. Which is where I am right now, you know we burn the ships. You know a metaphor there and just dove in one hundred percent of that point. Yeah, awesome! Awesome so! I I think you're right where you know we're building. A voice voice bought or skill is is fundamentally different than a than a chat Bot in a Lotta different ways where we build chat bots, the whole user can see everything you can present options. There's a lot of visual things that go with that and I think one of the challenges with voices. Like how do I learn to use this skill? Or, do I even find that skill so. What you see right now before we get into like your prophet, your guys is process. What are the challenges that that voice is facing right now? So one that you bring up is discover ability discover ability is a can be a problem in that. It can be difficult to figure out even what's available. You know it's funny. Sometimes we'll. Sometimes we'll see or do. These surveys were. We'll say okay. What are what are additional things that you'd like to be able to do with like? You're smart, speaker or something like that and. The responses that they get that. We get are frequently things that they can do. Yeah Yeah. Exactly so we want to be a actually that's that's available. That's been available for a while. Though so discover ability can be an issue It is not in my opinion though the major issue. Or the biggest hurdle, the biggest hurdle is actually. Can Be Retention. And so what we've seen is there are few. There are few killer applications out there. That people use in the people. Keep coming back to and we're using and. then. There's been a lot of experimentation around New things new new ways that we can that we can use them and I think that. I think that what we're seeing actually. Is that the? So much of it has been built around the smart speaker product. So much as been built around the expectation that this is going to be something that people are doing on a smart speaker and not really something that's going to be integrated with a whole slew of devices, so it's not just the case that you know. We're going to be over the next few years. We're going to be talking to you I. Just our speakers, the big kind of the big vision behind this is that you're going to be talking to your your phone. You're going to be talking to your television. You're going to be talking to your cars. You FAFA GONNA have them integrate in your refrigerator and that and that opens up a whole bunch of new possibilities particularly I. Think the big when you're going to see over the next couple of years is in the car. And so things that. Things that maybe haven't made as much sense when you're talking to a smart speaker in your living room, like for example being able to order ahead for food at a restaurant or something like that can make a ton of sense when you're driving. You know and so I think that I think that. That's a big thing that we're going to be seeing. I think a big that it really it so much, as is contextual and so. As voice kind of expands into a whole bunch of other devices and other contexts. I think we're going to be seeing a lot of new kind of killer use cases added to it, and that's really the that's really kind of the goal behind the major tech platforms. Play here you know Amazon holds has sold a lot of echo speakers, and it's been a very successful device for them, but that is you know that is really not their big voice play. Their big voice play is that they kind of view this as the as potentially being the operating system of the Internet of things. Glue that is the kind of is the as the underlying platform upon which all of these connected devices are built. Yeah, that makes that make sense you know you've got to. I mean the by any anybody whether it's voice. Bother Chat Bot. If it just you know lives within itself like it's only so useful, and it's probably not that useful, but the real. The real place where you start to leverage value is that it can leverage all these other tools in this other information that lives outside of it It's connected to so that's it makes sense that the voice spot would. Voice would would run an Internet of things, and be the tool. You'll ever to use it cam yet. So what's happened to into your testing? And you're optimization. Like? How did you guys? How did you find? This is a niche like I'm always interested in like you start something. And you know. How did you get to where you are because I mean for us where the different place than I thought we were going to be. Years ago. So. Tell me about the journey. Yeah absolutely. That is absolutely true You know what what we imagine. We'd be doing and kind of where we where we saw the aware where we thought the world was going to go for years ago three years ago or my gosh even three months ago, You. You kinda one thing that I. Remember hearing at the beginning I went at the beginning when I started my company and. It didn't pay as much attention to it. then over time. It's I. Keep Remembering it is. Your focus on the road and the turn ahead you know, don't don't don't you know, but don't get you know focus on ten miles ahead. Focus on the next mile because you really don't know what's coming ten miles away. Early if you're if you're a young startup of. What we've seen. Is that So we originally thought that it would be the most of our business would be coming from a lot of the third party. Skilled developers and you know that would kind of be this ecosystem that was being built around around Alexa Google Assistant. what we've seen is that we certainly have done a lot of work with those, but the big interest has been in From? the platforms themselves, so you know Amazon Google both are both are. Major customers of ours, and they're also investors, and then you know facebook is making a play here Microsoft is making a play here and then also the the kind of the major music streaming companies spotify. It's very important part of their of their strategy and Your kind of continuous testing and optimization building around there has been the big has been the big focus, and then what we thought it would be. It would mostly be a focus on as I, said applications that are being built around these on these platforms, and what is turned out. Is that most of the focus at least that we've seen? The last year has been not so much on just applications, but on devices. I new devices that people are building on new on new. You know kind of as I said context in which people want to build an integrate voice, and you know the most exciting, the most significant one I think. The next couple of years is going to be is going to be in cars. said that's where we've seen a ton of work in the Senate ton of what we're doing and then just in terms of Of the last few months as I mentioned We have you know our testing solution is a remote. UN moderated solution so all of our testers you know when they're interacting with their voice, with the the the voice devices they use their own devices in their own home, so it mimics as closely as possible. The interaction people are going to see in the real world. Okay, well a lot of. A lot of the testing work that is done by and the major big technology companies tends to be kind of on premise testing. They built. Studios and all this kind of stuff for. Recording these testings we all. Well in the last couple months. That's been a little bit difficult. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that was that was in the before times that you know hopefully. Hopefully we'll get back to those but. We've got. We've got some time right now. Where that is not really an option. And so the ability to do remote on moderated testing has actually been very very valuable, and so we have seen you know to be honest. A major kind of increase in the volume of testing work that we've been doing just because we have a solution that actually works you know just fine in you know under even under quarantine or social distancing. Yeah, and so you know you mentioned you never know what's. What's going to happen what you're going to see your my goodness? You know this last five months has been I think the world is as seeing the truth of that, but it's actually been been. You know rather advantageous for us. I I wouldn't I wouldn't wish this to last another day on the world, but you know it that particular aspect of it you know has been has been a silver lining for us. That's good at least at least somebody's. Got Some good coming out of this So if when you're when you've got your testers and they're testing about Walk me through what that process looks like for them and how you guys document that. Yeah! What the high level! What's that process? Look like? Yeah, absolutely so the way that it works is so essentially. Our testers are all. You want to be a test, or you can come to our website, and you can basically just sign up. You know we advertise on that pretty much. You know social media anywhere. We can income door site. You can sign up as a tester. We ask you some demographic information kind of get an idea of who you are, and then you take a practice test where we can kind of gauge right? Do you provide feedback and? Is the quality of your your feedback you know. Does it meet a bar that we think is going to be okay. This is going to be useful for for our customers and then When customers are building an application or something, they we, we allow them to target what their target demographic is. So if you're building like an application for seniors or something like that, we can actually source you know a panel of Usability testers that are going to be you know that are going to be seniors, and so you can. You can kind of make sure that the feedback that you get is is representative of the the type of user you can expect to see in the. Real world. then we work, we work with our. Customers to set up the test essentially figure out. What instructions they want. We want to provide to the users. Those can be as broad or specific as as we want them to be. It really depends upon what facets you want to test. If you just want to say I want to understand the real you the initial user experience, and how people are going to understand this out of the gate. We eventually say. You. Here's a one sentence description, or here's basically. Here's basically what you could expect to understand about this if you saw like an ad or something. You use it as you normally would or try to use it to to you achieve this goal. It also might be that. There's a very specific facet of the application that they wanNA test, and so will say you know do this. Go here and then use this part of it to do this, and so we can kind of pinpoint and say okay. This is the part of the experience we want to test, and so we can take the testers to part, and then so can now go, so really just depends upon what what were interested in. And then can also work out. We do kind of post test questions so after they're done interacting with. They answer questions about the experience and. Figure Okay what what questions you want to ask. That are going to that are going to help you. Answer the know the questions. That are going to let you make it as better. And the most effective engagements that we've had are actually with companies that are. You know it's not just a one and done thing. It's a process of continuous improvement. Though, you know, they say okay. We're GONNA WE'RE GONNA test, and then we're GONNA. Modify the test again or gonNA modify, and it really is best to do it as early as often as possible. Because the earlier you do it, the quicker you can catch mistakes and the and the earlier you catch mistakes, the easier they are to fix because then kind of propagate in effect, a lot of things that are downstream. Oh, totally yeah, and that can be the same I? MEAN VOICES VOICES has their number differences between voice, and you know chat but. There's certainly a lot of similarities. There I think a lot of the USABILITY issues that you can see in chat and a lot of the best design practices that you see in chat also apply a voice. Yeah, and I think they both are part of this. You know when you're when you're designing visual user interface you can, you can put a few buttons on there and You can make sure that. You can be pretty sure that you use only GonNa Click those few buttons. Whereas A. Chat Bot sometimes you can have buttons and options there, but you're user can also sometimes just type whatever they want. You have to be ready for kind of the unconstrained nature of that, and that is magnified even more and moist. INSA- kind of whatever they want at any given time, and ideally you need to be prepared for that or you need to be as prepared as US little. So. You're right with voice like you're totally unconstrained the end user they can say whatever they want. Whereas you know when you're building a bite, you do have that nice almost a crutch where I. could you know say Okay here? It's only a button you know. We've got three five buttons, or we're only going to allow them to. You know put in an email, address or phone number, and they don't put that in the body. You don't recognize. Hey, that's not a phone number. Please give me a number you know like. But with voice like the wild west for every every. Exactly, exactly and so you can. You can build in guidance there, but I mean even things like you know. Some. Yes or no someone will say yes, yeah, uh-huh, sure okay and all of that can essentially mean yes. Yup. For All of that, and and ideally, and this is something that kinda differs between between visual invoice. is that and Cats kind of straddles the. Between the two, but you kind of want to keep things. Broad and shallow and what I mean by that or is that? You nested menus for example can make a lot of sense in in visual design Museo. Where you want here and then here and then here and then here, and you can kind of do this. You know filtering process invoice. That's a lot harder to do, so you basically just have to be ready for whatever they WANNA do at any given time, and if you know if they say if to. They jumped to what you would expect to be step six. You know you need to be able to jump with them. You know somebody says I. Want you to do this and it's not like I I, you know. Answer this than answer this than answered this it is. Okay! What do you want and then tell us in your own words, and as best as possible? You need to be able to respond to that and. React appropriately. Near that's. That's To Hangman. It's a different. It's a whole different world. Really even though there's a lot of similarities so wanted to ask you I've got you. You guys test a lot of bots what he's year. The characteristics of the skills that are getting high adoption in retention like what those those skills haven't comment. Yeah, so the skills that are getting high adoption higher attention so two things well. Maybe three things so first off it's. It's a lot more effective when you're thinking about building these. To try to say okay. What is something that people are doing right now that we can make easier and better. So if it's if it's something that people are currently doing that, you can then improve, but it's that is huge, and you can see major adoption there as compared to something that they're not doing that. They would need to change their behavior in order to in order to start. And Noriega T to us what you do a significant behavior change in human behavior. It has the value proposition. There has to be much higher deaf. So something like being able to turn on a light bulb with your voice. You know that's a really valuable proposition to a lot of people because you know. Turning off and on lights is something we have to do anyway. Doing anyway and so be able to make that better in certain contexts is is a real win. Another thing is. It helps if there is some we're talking about. Discover ability it's helps if there's some trigger, so if there's some kind of external trigger in your life was going to make you think Oh, I should do that. You I I. and. You're one of the most successful. One of the most successful skills out there right now is actually the skill for The TV show jeopardy. and. So every single day. There's a there you know based upon the the jeopardy clues from that day. There's kind of an additional set of questions that people can play on Alexa just a just by saying. Let's play jeopardy. And you know what they see for that. As they see a big spike in the use right after the TV show. Yeah, and so that's kind of a natural trigger for playing for playing that game that has been that has been very popular, so it helps to have some trigger within within the rest of the world to kind of get you to kind of the same way that you know. Push notifications at big thing on on On cell phones, and then the other thing is that and this is where this is where testing really comes into. It is that it needs to be really intuitive natural. You know humans. Have we have this you know? I would even say innate expectation for how conversation is supposed to work. No talking is almost de quintessentially human thing. It's a fundamental. It's a fundamental aspect of what makes us people. and. So. We have a lot of expectations about how a conversation is supposed to work. How talking is supposed to work and. Modify an expecting people to Kane. That is a big expectation, so you need to figure out how to best. Craft your conversation craft your design in such a way that it mimics the way that people are all ready. And a big part of that is just testing it and understanding it and getting real user feedback, so that's kind of where pulse labs comes into this is. Is Helping with aspect of and I think that applies to to. Chat bots as well. Yeah, no, we we test the we build new by you know. Do the exercise you sit back to back. One person's the baht would the end you. That's how you out. Testing, yeah, exactly like Yeah, that sounds you know nobody would say that. What's renew its rewrite? Exactly exactly, so yeah, I think you guys are onto something. I I really like it. You know it makes sense with the USABILITY. I'm excited to see what the what comes with cars. because you know, we had an Alexa at our home for while eventually like we weren't really using it, so we got rid of it the only things we did use it for things that we were already doing like I would have it play a podcast or play music set timers. Tell us the weather you know those are those are kind of the standard use, cases and those are what. Alarms timers weather. You know music streaming. One thing we have seen a little bit more of is are people are starting to use recipes a more now cooking at home a lot more so. As a kitchenaid there yeah, but I think that I think that the big the big change that we're gonNA. See you're going to be around kind of new devices in new context. As you say I think that's that you're gonNA. See A lot of over the next couple years. Oh Yeah. You know I felt like I live in my car. You know driving everywhere, and and I love it but yeah more I would probably use a voice spot quite a bit once, I, once, that became really available to me so awesome, and before that you go, you do have one other product. That's really interesting. I wanted to let you Yeah, L. People about it where you kind of have like a Nielsen rating system. for the BOTS so I'll I'll just let you go. Yeah, absolutely, so We also have some, and that's essentially. You can view it as kind of Nielsen for voice and that is you know we have another panel that from whom were actually able to kind of monitor. You know what they're using their voice devices for and and Kinda. What you really what people are doing? What people are not doing, so I want to get a gauge on. What's popular? What's trending anything like that? We can work you know that's information data that we can that. We're capturing that we can provide, and so that actually has been. We have a partnership with Kantar, which is ended the one of the larger market research firms in the world, and we kind of provided voice. You know component to their market research Australia and so we've actually done a fair amount of work. This is more kind of tends to be. Compared to product teams tends to be more with marketing teams. Yeah, but we've done a lot of work with marketing teams, essentially providing market research there or even tracking and attribution. If you know if you've got an ad campaign, and there's a voice aspect to it, you know being able to track and get a gauge, okay? How popular is that? What's where changes are we seeing? within consumer behavior based on that. We can track that with with our. Panel that's amazing man. I love that you gotTa. Have the data to make to make the decisions and that it just makes sense so they can you know okay? We want to build a for our brand. You know what what makes sense you know. WHAT ARE PEOPLE ADOPTING? What are they using? How do we compare once? We're live, you know. It's good stuff man well. I appreciate you coming on Dylan, it's been. It's been really informative and entertaining so The people want to reach out to you. Continue the conversation. Where can they get a hold of you? Yes, so I I thank you very much for having me on It's been a pleasure and I really enjoyed it Yes, so our website is just www dot pulse labs dot, AI, or you can. You can find me. You can just reach out to Dylan dot. Zwick Dui L.. A. N. Dot Z. Wick. A Pulse Labs Day I. If. There's anything curious about you want to know more about this. I'd love to I'd love to continue the conversation. Awesome Man will thank you again and we'll chat later. All right, thank you.

Alexa Dylan dot University of Utah co founder Goldman Sachs Zwick Seattle Salt Lake City Utah football Best Practices Byu Billy Bateman Abby co-founder Helen NFL
Episode 83: Ending dog world friendships

The Canine Paradigm

1:03:31 hr | 1 year ago

Episode 83: Ending dog world friendships

"What's happening in the canine industry? For all the latest news views and expert opinions stay right here for the Canine Paradigm you'll hear from industry leaders experts doyennes of the industry learned Ed colleagues movers and Shakers and the odd randy guest get the latest insights and expert advice from both here and abroad from the people in the know now here your hosts Glenn Cook and Pat Steward. I'm lofty Fulton and I'm Outta here. Hey Glen yes some imaginings haven't gone tell me a found Jason Firmin's fine number no way we should bring him in safe. We should buy some yoga equipment of we've got to put this to rest once and for all the simony people harass me baddies website and and your side yeah let's ring these idiom okay hang on a sec drinking makes ally Jason. We ask Patricia <unk>. I'm ringing to Blossom Doug Equipment of you. What do you want to know some tug some leashes? Some some of that kind of stuff cannot do that over the phone. Might let's get down to the nitty gritty in the business he have you got a website or not. Of course what caused them. Just didn't want to tell you about your immediate. Tell us what is your website. It is W._W._W.. DOT ON DOT com on in the W. H.. Y. Dot com you headed. Hey folks on Zwick Doug Quip Dot Com where you can buy adult training equipment head over there right now. Put yourself some tugs leashes. What else do you sell Jason Yeah plenty of Higest Products Dogville equipment or for mill anything any normal dog I would want? That's it Johnson Glen then you still a buffet boy. You're welcome back to the Canine Paradigm. I'm your host pet. Stewart joined in studio today by my co host Glenn Crook no one else not just us against us. Hello Hey gone good. It's your birthday. It is today they want people on the podcast gets released these now Roy we right in the thick of it so don't don't message Glenn Happy Birthday if you're hearing these because if you're a true friend you've already done it. That's right yeah. It's too late. It's over well actually well. I always tell my bet they wake oh you one of those yeah. I'm one of those yeah I I just like to drag it out. Drag it out for what it's worth. What are you doing tonight? <hes> we're going to go close. Oh <hes> to see a film this film what what he's saying Spiderman Okay Yeah how exciting mix audit how old they now forty-nine Jesus and I it's a big Hawaii next year Hawaii the do we have a topic for today yeah. I think what we're GONNA do is comes off the back of few suggestions. We've tried to do podcasts on this topic thing before and thought maybe a little bit to randy but it was a suggestion podcast on breaking up friends in the dog industry I <unk> geese which a few people lost all tap into them and knife condensate hetty deal with it and interesting topic. I talk about this on the A._T._F.. A fair bit and it comes from people who've done seminars not so much seminars but it coaching sessions in the force free fraternities okay so what's happening in the past with people that have been in there and they've come off the back of that and all the Don and A._T._f.. Or shared an experience with me and you may have heard similar I'm wolf from people that you've spoken to is that they <hes> indoctrinated into the group and it's kind of like a cult so they go into the group they befriend everybody they become a part of a big family and it's very much that they feel loved and protected and guided and everything else that you would feel good about and then if they change their mind or have any form of different thinking or God forbid decide that they want to look into a balanced perspective they sort of like Kost staffed yeah but when they cost out it's like the movie the Matrix the unplugged from the machine Yup so they're very much. It's be like being driven out to the days ahead and dropped off and you're looking around thinking what the fuck is tapping. How am I going to survive everything that I knew and everything I've been indoctrinated into? As Bain strict from me are being taken from it and that's the experience that I've heard from people and they very emotional when they describing the whole story about how it feels to them because they just said everything on your my friends my lifestyle what I was accustomed to doing what I would wake up looking forward to doing as Bain stripped from me as punishment so it's their form of negative punishment. I basically say we'll fuck you. You're not thinking like us anymore. You're not one of us. You can't be one of US your Solo. You're on your art. <hes> so it's a frightening experience for quite a few of them heard anything similar or will yeah exactly that actually I had someone come to a seminar now trying to figure out a way I won't say a name just in case other people listen but <hes> she came to seminar and of mine in the states and got told if she went to choose no longer able to try and with other people that you try and with because I were forced free to community and training and and part of what she was doing with them was for a particular thing <hes> and you're told if you go to that because it the postal says you know it's NIPPO and they learn about e callers Yep. You're not welcome back here to try this. If if you if you even go to it which I think there's a few pots to that. Let me sort of finish the story before explain why I think that happened but her dog we didn't actually use any pressure we only stayed in the Popa and it's you what I thought was interesting and we may discuss this at length kind of afterwards just killing it with the dog male dogs during mining but they had the the top of positive reinforcement that would do had actually flat in the dugout almost completely and and when when we brought brought the dog into the room it wouldn't work because it was like it. There wasn't enough value in the positives so you then got two options or I'll have to apply some negative reinforcement to compel stock to work which certainly could have done <hes> but the dog has good drive. He just didn't know Oh that this was a time and place where he can shoot express it yup and so it was like hey like we need to go to this point and we need to October with Nate Yup and she was quite sort of embarrassing. It was like you know he does eight. I promise and I was like yeah. I know you sent me video saying it but he doesn't know the restaurants. I've been here and I think one of the things as well as I'm doing more and more workshops at the moment one of learned I understand I have a whole speech. I give people before we do any dog work and I say Hey. Is this a disclaimer. Yeah it's like doc is not going to go well. This is the worst possible circumstances under which to train your dog bad environment when the dog is a projected before a crowd of people so he we are right so you were at a dog training plice so chances I were at a daycare or you know a dog training facility where there's been loads of other doses a million smells he that unknown to us that at present he I so that's going to be a holly distracting thing for your dog doc. We're in a totally new environment. Captured dog has never been before a totally new distraction full of motivate a full environment yep you luckily some sort of industry professional earth minimum dog training enthusiast you have friends and colleagues. He who is going to be watching you and my mistake they are judging. You and you're going to ask you dog to perform in front of that crowd under those conditions so I always say to people hey. This is GonNa go terribly like don't expect act when you come out and say does he said home. I believe you totally believed that you don't does but the point of training the dog doesn't everywhere so right. I'm just thinking stupid things. You're talking what well they used to be a phrase that we used to say a lot in called touching cloth touching cloth touching cloth and that's when you when you could become so nervous he do a little bit eh just thinking about the total head. Yes I yeah in situations. It's terrible like it's terrifying and yeah you feel like you're gonNA shoot yourself yeah and so I said to people like hey. This is a safe place. Nobody forget no-one judging you even though they definitely are just on the West just relax you know and understand that that's what's GonNa come if your dog like low your criteria or whatever yeah and it speaks really to preparing your dog for aw for training and for competition if that's what you're GonNa do but it also is the generalization that reinforces and training can happen anyway because a lot of the Times these dogs and certainly with these the example I'm giving I had seen video she had sent me video because I'd asked that all the dogs have powerfully charged Maka so that we didn't face these problems and she'd sent me video of the dog with very powerful charge Marcus and I said do you believe you so of Saint it not only do. I believe you obviously but I've seen the video yup what is happening. He and this is very very common at all of these <hes> events. That kind of thing is that your dog doesn't know that reinforces her available you have to now use the cheeky cheeky Chaka in order to get the Doak to understand that there's reinforces vowel so you basically have to Herreid the thing that you have in front of the Doak to convince him that he should now work for it and this speaks to we talk about like classical conditioning a working signal where the dope whether he wants to not get put into a working frame of mind which just means they need to prove it in as many different environments as possible because it's essentially what people do right is they get it right in one location. I think Ah-ha success however what they've done is they've they've reached the like the top of the pyramid in one environment but. But forgotten about the ninety nine other environment they have to do relaxing criteria do a setback and then realize okay well. What I need to do is work up to being in these other and go back to the learning phase it can play generalization yeah Yep and so the other thing is well? What what you say from some of these dogs especially when training with food is a rainforest I locked bowl? Dr Tends to or toy drive tends to general laws quite well. I think Adoga wants to play with the bowl at home is likely to one apply with the ball if it switches over year if that's what you're into Yep <music> but with most people's pet dogs they train at home and the made me because that's where you are training ninety nine percent of the time and your little battle lab at home where you're doing your thing and I say this amazing engagement. There was a couple of reasons for that the first one is that those external motivators a burnout you diagnose like all the oldest smells in your high. He's not going to suddenly get interested in this random smell. It's been there his whole law if that's right and also we've conditioned the idea that this is how you ate like you get fed at home so even people who daren't fade from a ball right like people who really truly do train with existential food and all of that if you do it between five and five thirty everyday had in the same place when you then try and try and your dog in front of a crowd with a bunch of reinforces that you don't control and your nervous and the pitcher is wrong the dog guys hey look this looks Kinda high stress for you and for me. Why don't we just not worry about this and we'll do it? One time at five thirty today and people like I don't understand like they normally haw through Dr Dog who had homing houses food or takes the reinforces in the way that I've taught them to do then is like not taking food that's delivered and then the that's no problem. That's going to happen sometimes on day one that's only a problem if if you then go home and do the training at five thirty like the Doug Bayne has to go okay like and this is what we talk about the use of existential food or or training reinforces and people get upset at me. Maybe we don't do is good enough. Drove explain it here. Maybe this is sort of Assad. Why topic to it that you're never the we holding food from the dog eating you WanNa talk about knipe whether you will not I mean yes of course I do but nice though is life yeah but this is even if you're just even if you are a person who uses only wants to you use positive reinforcement or force for training whatever it is hands off whatever whatever name it's called today positive I if you WANNA use positive I the thing is if you give the dog to opportunity to eight on never signed to the dog you don't have the opportunity opportunity to eight that and that does not ever happen and if I cited the dog he's the opportunity to eight and the dog doesn't want to I'm not withholding? I am not withholding. The dog made the choice choice. That's the dog made that choice because he thinks I don't need to take these now. <music> our will get other food later on and then the only way that we can make him understand that he won't get other food later on he's decided to him like east to not giving that food later on the thing we'd like when I have a almost four year old son now and I can explain things to it is way past cognitive capacity of adult way past that yeah so now I can say to him. This is your opportunity if you want X.. These has to be now. This is now and I'm not going to give it to you later on con- explain that to the dog so for the dog if I say hey here's your opportunity goes. No thanks to them what that opportunity. There's no way I can inside of the dog. There's no way for later other than just not doing it later and then the Dogo account must take what he's given and <hes> and then I don't want my dog to be a nervy and no but I main like no this wreck wondering when he's GonNa get fed next and and thinking I have to have to devour everything that's available in that because I gave condition cues okay the restaurant's open. Now's your opportunity to work. <hes> the restaurants closed. There's opportunities you got and that comes up at multiple times during the day as well so there are there are multiple options available for the dog. It's not like it's a one shot deal. Try primarily might have to be a little bit like that. One shot deal until the dog starts to realize well. You know he's the opportunity that's interesting. You say this. I really truly firmly believe that you shouldn't take dog about pressure and use that same pressure to teach a behavior at the same time the dough should either no the behavior and now we lie hearing some form of pressure all we teach the dog to react to the pressure and then use that pressure to take a behavior so what I never do with the dog that he's just learning that yeah my shoot eight food because hungers pressure and yet Zoya designed so I had to take food ease pressure yeah so what I Never WanNa do you don't Elias Stress. Yes so what I don't want to do is bring that dog into the training room. We realized within the first ten seconds at the dog's not interested in taking food. I sure as fuck don't want to try and teach the dog to do a seat for food. He doesn't want you out right so I'd have to say hey he and then what I also I'm not going to do is ask the dog to see it and if he doesn't because he's motivated elsewhere. Go because you did not see it. I I am not going to give you the food that was your opportunity in the Food Yup never going to do that. <hes> what I am going to do is click and offer the food and if the dog doesn't take it then then I go okay. We'll give you this opportunity. Set it up so that we showed this is the pressure the pressure is he. Don't want it. Okay you have to you. You may see out Yup. You miss out on getting that food and then tomorrow or this afternoon we know whatever schedule is depending on. How much food is in the Dogo Baba Baba Right? Can I just add something coming. Nee which I think is important. I agree with everything you've said. The one thing that I find that is happening at some of the workshops at our pain watching and things that are being watching online is that thou go through the motions of trying to take that dog behavior the doc won't take the food because of whatever external inhibitors or internal inhibitors are going on at the time but then what they'll do so the dog fuck Iran start rewarding itself in the environments right yeah and then the dog learns while it does matter if I didn't take the food now governed drink water earldom someone will pat me or any of that so I'm very specific about those type of things that when a dog like he's filing the exercise in the environment daren't offer other external rewards the dog so the dog thinks well. It doesn't matter so much you know I'm I missed this but I'm going to get all these instead <hes> well with the food. I actually don't want too much about that in fact like especially when I'm teaching about the food if the dog gets distracted and go somewhere else I'm still got it offering you chose not to have it and you can't survive live off the pat from someone else over there and it means that the dog actively learns to avoid the external motivators they think like they realize that something. I must avoid not something that's not available to me. It's available to me. I can go over there and get it but oh I have to make the choice not to because my restaurant is open a want that but so I just offer the dog food and if he doesn't want it and it's like okay we'll try again <hes> but what I sure as fuck I'm not GonNa do is try and teach the dog to do something and then offering the reinforcer she just told me deny pressure and then and then my only the only option I have because I do try to neo not just the PIPO is to then say okay well. I can use pressure like some sort of physical pressure. I can use another pressure to bring on the behavior. Maybe I can use negative reinforcement by I. They not get my values correct right because my negative reinforcement value has to be less than my positive reinforcement value for the behavior to be flashy and powerful so if I offer the dog the positive reinforcer and he doesn't want it of course I can force that dog to do whatever I want. I can use negative reinforcement that can make a dog do anything I want US negative reinforcement no problem but what I can't and I can use the but then what is impossible for me to do is to give Poe in a value that outweighs the value of the negative and day FORMICA flashy motivated behind you through that because I offered the dope for free so that's always my test. Whenever anybody brings a dog to me? I say absent any of the physical pressures the only pressure is desire. Show me how he reacts to the reinforces and that tells me exactly how much pressure can use so if the dog runs at the bowl and trust doing highlight we've got we can use a fair amount of negative reinforcement in order to teach these behaviors because we can an offset the de motivation the negative reinforcement could potentially create void that positive reinforcement if the dog Winnie he's the click comes flying back to the handler and Davao's as much as he can. I perfect we with the food we can start layering in some pressure but if the dog for free with absent being asked what to do so there's no behavior he just have your rainfall. That doesn't want it. I'm not trying that dog. Wait what we are trying that dog but we're training that dog how to take it's rained forces and find it rainfall seeing inside the correct thing to do and it's what I do regularly is we just got okay. All we're going to do over the course of this workshop or seminar or whatever and hopefully these happens on ones. Where it's you know four or five days so we have the time to say an improvement and I can sort of make the people stick to it? Is We always going to do is offering food. That's it and so long as you don't undercut yourself and fade him at home then we're going to say a massive improvement guaranteed and this lady we had on the first day the Dogo had no interest in the food that she had and on the third day the Douglas Devouring Food and like okay now we ready Bena Seminar Turi Day one versus die too Yep when she specifically well. I mean I send a message. Tehran signed eight dogs the day before the seminar. Let him come to the seminar hungry and Georgie Harrington wouldn't have because she's pretty much a stickler for the rules but I'm sure other people gave the dog mercy fade before they came and the difference between the Diwan Presentation of the dogs which was a little inhibited and distracted from the work that we're doing today to was completely different. Data was just like a complete turnaround yeah so we talk about that kind of like environmental blindness. It's not that the dog is a talk about. I think we talked about it. He did not distracted. They just motivated elsewhere and I limit the motivation elsewhere by increasing the motivation into what I have boy making it scarce but anyway so what does he stole motivation. That's just motivated towards. I've talked about this right so I mean these constant ongoing war with Telstra over these fine plan right and at any minute they're gonNA cut off my fine yeah. I am distracted by that. That is something that wall we're sitting here talking about is kind of in the back of my mind. That's a distraction when your dog when you have food which you think motivates your dog and your dog Says No. I'm more interested in what's over. He's not distracted by that thing. He is more motivated to go to that thing. It's a motivator. You dog isn't worrying about whether he lift a lot zoning these Kennel. That's a distraction anything that your dog was trying to do rather than anything that your dog is trying. I want to do rather than Ernie's reinforcer ease the reinforce that he actually wants in that time they have all motivated by it but I don't think dogs think about it as cognitively as we do. That's right. That's he's just like that's what I want right now. That's a simple they're more in the moment than what we I I mean I'm sure they do have worries and concerned but they not as intrinsic Zales exactly. That's what I'm trying to say so when when I'm working I someone says to me all he's distracted. Boy that smell nano nine might are divided motivated. That's good yeah I agree and so you either have to diminish the motivation of that smell and you do that boy act by increasing the motivation of what you have or you now that smell is now your reinforcer and make him work to use that sold me on that point yes <hes> anyway so this lady she to get back to what we were even starting about by the end of it the dogs working like a machine and working exactly how she had Charen me he could work at home <hes> and it was only because he then came to understand yep okay of got it like I understand that when you offer me the food I should take it whether I'm really very hungry or not because this is the window of opportunity and now we have a way to start training that dog and the thing is as well like what people forget or perhaps don't understand is that if you're a new environment Yodok weren't take food right that won't take it's reinforces whatever it is if your environment you don't want take that he also will not do the work that you're asking for. That's the same thing he's only doing the work in order to received as rain forces especially if you're in the learning phase right before Douglas Learn to enjoy the action itself so the chances of you being out of recall your dog in that place don't exist. It's not going to happen so don't while the training anything and so she came to my seminar the pro go either God. That's going to teach you how to use an E coli and it was no longer allowed backing her training club who were forced free positive only meant to be good at that and I had to fucking teacher about that no them so I go back to your original point in that like people are worried about not because it's I don't think people are wired about looking outside the group not because the devil is outside the group and Yoga Yoga. It'd be now influenced to do something terrible to dog. She's a lovely person. She's not going to ever do anything terrible to a dome. It's because you will find out that my skill set is not as high as I am trying to tell you that it is that in my opinion is why people don't. I don't want anybody to look outside of what they're doing right well. It's a method of control. That's right yeah and if I only if I only know five things out of the possible hundred series to know <hes> but I've let you think that I know everything. It's very fucking important. You never meet anybody who knows seeks things because then then it becomes clear that Oughta know everything that I do <hes> yeah. It's like it's almost like an abusive relationship where one partner is telling the other one that they wouldn't survive without got them and they you know they're not that good looking and Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah and they tell them a range of just heinous comments and all it is is they're acting on their own insecurity like if you leave me I'll be distraught not that did not feeding them with the a positive thing or encouraging them to say listen babe pilgrims of the world you know go out and learn and when you've learned come back and teach us as well you know bring your information back led us all benefit from it together and I think those type that type of learning is really encouraged top of learning. I prefer to be around people like that but I must admit you know look out being guilty of tribalism before where we've created Nasional try it is I mean there's no way rand at that. You become objective if to other people's teaching methods and so forth I mean you and I've sat ram before and looked at things that people have done thought I kai. That's pretty average <hes> I'm sure people have done it to us and said you know that Glennon Pat. I know what they're talking about. Now kicking the dashboard shut up yeah who are these idiots might look that happens. I don't think that where anyone is the bastion of all knowledge on also. That's why I encourage people go to seminars like we said this so many times we just about blue in the face sobat but you really are benefiting from going and listening to people's teaching. I'm surprised when I saw that Josh hadn't sold at when he was doing the seminar here this weekend in like he has a Melbourne but he hadn't facility and I'm like really like like you bringing over a guy that's internationally accredited with you know foaming jace. He's a very smart operator. Go very switched on and there were still places available for the same a- a hope they taken up now like I'll be disappointed to find out that spot to win fulfilled for the for the Sydney seminar but it surprises me still that <hes> people are so resistant to it. I guess that's one thing that that has happened Nishi that has been different to for me as as as being a lot of pop-up seminars that have happened this year. Everybody is doing seminars nail like they used to be. Get have four. Maybe four year and people could afford to go to them but now like everybody wants to run seminars anybody who's got a little bit of property property or or whatever you know all of a sudden they running seminar this this person's bringing that person out this I bring this person out and it's for people listening them. I saw that sounds like sale gripes Glenn because he runs seminars. It is sale gripes. I can tell you when you organize Organiz one and all of a sudden somebody dropped two or three right in the spice that you doing him and you know people that had budgeted to come to your seminar on Fox now. I've got like three other seminars to choose from and all of a sudden instead of getting good crowds at seminars widnall L. Sing like smaller groups of people coming through so yeah little little bit P._c.. From me and I know that other people have spoken to have said the same thing that said you know I like all of a sudden now. You've got this one that one this one that one this one that one like in the space of the Shia Shia. There's been like twenty seminars already that have that have happened in a term where they used to be four and that's why people now have said to themselves well. Can I fold it now and I actually afford to go to all these learning opportunities and I've had people message saying dude you know. I like a really wanted to come. I just can't afford it. I can't afford you know the flight up there all the accommodation or even the fade just this time around because this one's happened and you know. Which one do you go to yeah yeah well? I think that that's very true and we had a full schedule here in Sydney at the <hes> but I think that for dog trainers and general no matter where you are. I think the only thing that should be holding you back from furthering your education is time and money because at the two resources that you absolutely need to do it. It shouldn't be that you like no my I'm my buckets fool. I'm done because like say for example like what teaches like nee PIPO but then like your j's thing is play and that's the popat right so it's like I don't go into like the deep dive into how to actually reinforce the dog really well using gameplay and it's not that that's <hes> that's any different to what I would do to. That's the the piece that he teaches yeah. It's not a specialty. It's not in conflict to anything but it's the pace and so it's like a specialist right. It's work on always somewhere on is somewhere fate. You know what about teaches. The game play Poi- game plays a big part of the training in mosses compliment. Yeah it's it's it's a huge part of it but it's not the part that I have the time energy and capacity to teach so they all sort of dovetailed together but I think yeah you're right. There's a lot going on at the moment and I think that the only limiting factor in you progressing what you know <hes> as a trainer or if you just didn't enthusiasts that loves training your dog the only thing that should be holding you back each time and money and the one thing that he's tricky hosting seminars is definitely that it's a weekend and so you go to find the right time. I'm wind is nothing else on but then a lot of most dog China's I think anyway they worked a weekend because that's when your clients are available so the attending some sort of educational thing usually in coach Dabo cost at does civil you're paying to be there and there's the opportunity the income you can't work that weekend yeah so it is very expensive. I get all that <hes> and but you gotta try and push forward and people need to broaden their horizons and look elsewhere and I think all that I think most evaluation is not that because if they're listening to us the they're they're interested in that but what is concerning back to your original point is that it's when someone says to you. Don't go to that like someone might say hey. Maybe I know that person and their skill level and your skill level it. It may not be a good investment for you right like and I accept that because that's people ask me about hey like should I go to this. Should I go to that. My default answer is always yes. You should if you can afford it but it's time the money you should go to everything but if you had to choose between these person listen that person because of where you're at you a likely from my point of view a likely to get more out of that person of this person that will be a better investment for you <hes> but I would never tell anybody do not go to that and if you go to that we all finished you cannot come to me because it's fucking cottage like that like that is that's madness and and we've discussed a million tons of the Po couch like I'm the going to someone says you can't do that well now. I can't do anything else other than that like you just kicked in my opposition reflex and now I have to do exactly what you just forbid me from doing and make a public spectacle of doing what you just feed me from doing and fuck you right well. I've got to arrange seminars. I'm going to encourage you to well. I love gone to all those events for me more than anything I pick up something from everybody say one hundred tool in the bank and whether it might. Might be something that I say nothing or like. There's almost no chance of me employing natto using that or or that something that I now know I will never use at least I got to observe at rather than finding out myself and having the bad experience so like I'll get something out of everything I go to what I really enjoy is the community at these things. That's a huge part of it. I think people who are the regulars at ise those kind of events that are faulk in good and really I just there eh for the hang out. Yeah I gotTa admit the networking at seminars just sensational and sometimes it's just like accountable catching up with people in the dog world and you know what are you being doing. It's like family reunions a lot of time yeah <hes> yeah big time yeah do appreciate when we're talking about seminars and especially the planning of them is when people in the industry are actually networking with each other on top of the networking topic that we're talking about. It's always nice when rather than just through these plugging seminars Amina's way all of a sudden you find out instead of paying for six eight or whatever you know suddenly we've got twenty happening in the year but it's nice to know that people are working with each other more frequently and saying okay look. I've got such and such coming hanging out in July. You got anyone you know what they happening. I think maybe if people listening to this who are thinking that bring out people and running seminars. Maybe we need to have a coordinated page or something on facebook or something like that yeah yeah but I mean how can you that would be great if you could keep it to an area because like I agree with you one hundred two as a hosted. It's your job to be in charge of that and to know that but especially as a present like having done this overseas and people say oh well. There's a lot in that area at the time. I'm like well On that look. I'm not plugged into that that spice. That's your job as the highest in your domain as the present. I say but I'm talking about people in Australia. No no that's bad but most of our listeners on Industry today like we you obey if they give this away like Oh. These are the people that will say this weekend at J. and that's the fifty sixty people say there but there's ten thousand people all around the country listening to this would be a disaster try to hey. I'm doing this seven here and it's like cool Katya you you fucking Northern Ireland seminar itself. He likes to cancel a few that I was planning on bringing out just because it was just too much saturation on but I think that's really good and I know for myself having brought people out and traveled around doing it myself as he got to know that because at the end of the day these things are great too but it's a for profit business. It's what we're doing. It's like you you. Do you presentation you you. You're selling your knowledge and selling it. You know what I mean. You have to make money your wife from your family. Always Kinda thing that's right and it's up to the host to know like what what you should be because you can't. There's no way you can know as a present. There's no way you can be plugged into everywhere around the world and all the people that could want to attend knowing. What else was there the week before and what's going to be there the wake off in every apply? It's it's impossible. It's up to the host too. You know that and putting the work to mitigate that hey we're we've changed shopping. We'll talk about breakout. Breakup bus stops and fought in the dog world <hes> but I think one one thing I was going to say on that. When when we first question was that I know there's lots of dodgy nece that goes on and on I still really yeah but I still pretty firmly believe that most of the time when people have these big bus stops especially in business <hes> taught things or in arrangements or whatever co owning dogs and all that kind of thing it's more often than not I still firmly believe that it's miscommunication and misunderstandings and I believe that the best way to avoid all that is really cle- understanding inning of if you have some arrangement or deal under really clearly articulating write it down yeah having a contract and it's weird you know 'cause like people like say with awesome these podcast right like we have cle- now that we've had to turn it into a business yeah we have clear roles and responsibilities and we know this is my part of it and I'm responsible for this? Is Your Pot of it. You're responsible for this is how we split things. This is how we do things and so no one will ever get angry at anybody else because we understand what <hes> bloody Glenn bought himself a new microphone and didn't by May one. You know what I mean because it's like this is what we spoke about say hey well. I would then go out and buy this happen but there's he's never going to be an issue there. No one I'm never going to look at your part and go. It's less or more than mine and be angry about it. This is a shed pool. We've node the deal but the reality is I mean as we've said to people who have been patroness. Is that whatever they giving. We're injecting back into improving the show of course I've just used this as an example black say in all business relationships is no such thing as a perfect split like it can't work that way then there's always going to be one person who either has to take more money because of more responsibility has to do more work it can never cut everything perfectly down the middle. That's impossible and so what I think happens you know what of Dogwood relationships where people crack the sheets and things might be going fine and then suddenly suddenly it's a big bus stop and now they hate each other and that kind of bullshit is I usually think that they didn't really clearly define the terms when they got into bed together and it's like this is what we're GonNa do and you have an idea of what that's going to look like and I have an idea of what that's going to look like back and then six months later you go fuck on getting less deal in you and it still might be a good deal but it might be less than mine and that's when this happens and now you re me off for you. Do whatever right I never run that sheet like when I'm getting involved with somebody and this is before or had any dogs is say like hey. This is how I feel safe going. Of course they cannot say but this is how I say things going. This is where the cost will come from. This is how will repay that. This is my air responsibility. This is your area have responsibility yeah and when you understand all that kind of stuff you front load the realization that it won't be it won't it will be fair but it might be even right and so I think a lot of dogwoods splits a when people have has that that sit down talk and go like this is how it's going to go and they they both under the impression that it's GonNa go differently and that when one of them gets the realization there on the back end of it then they didn't they caused all the problems. I I see that a law and of course it does happen and I've been involved in that a multitude of Tom's yeah sometimes it my fault and sometimes the other ends fault of course however a lot of what you saying. I think it's fair what you've just said but there are a lot of underhanded yeah that's right that's right of course but a lot of the time yes totally and after Fenton on we'll faint in that but if in your dealings dealings with you find yourself in position with other people too often right that should be the outlaw. I caught them as soon as as soon as I'm dealing with somebody like that they don way down yeah. I'm finished with them personally professionally. Yeah we're dom yeah yeah totally and and it's sort of has to be that way. I don't play the fool me once shame on you for me twice shame on me yeah but I mean and it is an ethics thing as well like he's. He's an example Roy Moore Dog Sam gave him to me. He's more on irony. It's not like we had the sit down talk but it's always been he's. He owns genetically right if he wants to break from him. Ken and I daren't Braid. I don't have the right to let anybody else from him and I have been offered some fucking the money. Now I can sell the dog that's fine but <hes> he's mowing. I can sell him but what I don't have the ability to ease to sell him so same an old let anybody brave from a moment of and so whenever people contact me in this say hey we will automate a lot autumn on a lot of people voss meet to break from that dog and I say go talk saying it's not it's none of my business. If you talk to him and he would never he would never know. I could have done that one hundred times. He would never know right by a darn because I'm not a fucking asshole. Yeah like that's the deal we have randy dog dog that I love and I wanted for fucking years yeah and he's perfectly capable of what I wanted. Any helped me develop at Lockheed gave that to me. You're an honorable dude yeah. That's plenty of people who are your bond. Is Your word and you call people on their bullshit a lot because I say this with a fiction but more often than not you're very honest person. I haven't sometimes too you are yeah you but you do call a lot of people and they bullshit because you just like doc dealing with honesty. I know that it really grinds you. Geeze when people lie about things and you realize you know like I have to be careful on that like it. Is this like the truth will set you free that is one of my lawf- mortars and I fucking leave it to the to the fullest. Is that when you get if you if you lie in the papal it's fucking stressful thing and even comes in the wash and look like without going into the the reason I have such strong feelings on this. I've had to professionally to save people and I fucking hide it not in a row longtime ago right and nothing to do with anything. He and I am so uncomfortable doing that and I'd balking hide it like it is it it goes against every fiber of my bang and then you leave in the slack. What did I totally person has like it's horrible and so you never have to? I don't like to watch my tongue. I like to say what I feel like. We're not feel like it and if you'd never have to protect any mistruths or untruths untruths then you have to worry about what you say you can just run your mouth. Whenever you want and you can be wrong <hes> you could be wrong? I'm wrong a lot. I say a Lotta Shit that turns out not to be true and rectify when it does but I'm never intentionally wrong right. It's like when people have tried to control suggest the direction we take the show in like I say all if he didn't do this macho he didn't swear or whatever you know. You'd probably get more listeners on more people joining in and we basically said we'll fuck them. Ah We like. We like Al audience the way it is. We like people that are on. I mean we I just find that we're walking on eggshells with people so much these days <hes> we've become so politically correct in so disconnected. From each other it's fucking frightening. It's frightening the speed that it's actually heading in and I think this is another reasons why way way dividing from each other so much you know I don't know many people I'm sure you and I have shot the shit on this many times but I don't know how many people are really enthralled and fascinated by this whole political correctness movement not like this whole Marxist leftist whatever you WanNa call it this juno the best way to not have to do with that study. Will it still Abe and that's primarily what I do. I start cutting people when I realize that it's becoming it. Just looks like pay soup and when I say it I just think I just can't be around you because I can't have the freedom to move and say and think the way that I need to because Zeno become stifled denim become frustrated to be honest. I think it leads to terrible confrontation eventually so I just think you do you all do me you exist in your end of the world. I'll do mine. I and I think everybody nobody can live happily ever after view. If you view it that way without offense from people and look to be honest you know talking about this whole bust-up thing I've had in depth conversations with people where I've said to them and and it's not about pushing the blame onto them. It's basically saying I don't. I don't think we're compatible anymore. Yeah didn't think you and I work well together and that you and I think it's a youth thing in it's an amazing. It's just that we've come to. It's basically a bottleneck where we're not fitting through anymore and as north of the walls in the past. It's not going to be like that in the future so I bid you for well. We should well and it's not malice on the person it's just that you no longer you just agree to disagree on too. Many subjects becomes uncomfortable around each other well and I've done that with clients and I've had that done to me with clients to show and I of course especially if it's someone ongoing client you getting money from it and you like. This is the industry as a site. We are doing this to to pay the bills. It can be financially kicking taste but there's no point I don't try and recover that lack of people say hey would rather do it. Whoever's why Mike you cool? That's as much as I would. I am enjoying trying a new but usually at that point you not like no. You're not like if you leaving home frustrated and feeling guilty and I mean that's the other thing to ride. Is that that sometimes you just feel this incredible guilt all time and when you know we did a podcast sometime ago like dealing with <hes> and coping with stress Johnnie Industry and or just in general and I think part of that is when you separate from people. Sometimes they have their times way. You don't feel liberated. You feel guilty about it like I have done the right thing. You know I like we were friends. We had the end you recalling recalling the memories of things that you had that. Were working well together in the past but that's no longer possible. I just don't believe that it got to a point where it's possible to have that going forward and I'm like once I do get to that point. I used to feel guilty about it in the hospit- now a dunk yeah it's an odd thing it is yeah I agree and I just think to myself the best thing for me like because I do have to self care with things like that is not to wallow in a too much to think on it too much because there have been some in recent times where I've had to drop a few people. I've just thought to myself fuck. You know like I actually got really emotional about it but then I thought well what's the point yeah. I'm on the verge of on the verge of a bus stop with the client the Miami I bet she's keeping it together what it is and I had to develop. A sort of a new strategy for this right is there's. There's an issue with the dog I it's it's created by her the issue and there's just a way the dog was rise while it was capped as a few different things and it's basically basically presents as a novus aggressive dog right. That's what it is in the Pasta fixing it would be quite simple. I think but here's the other thing like I'm a balanced China or positive I China or whatever we're calling it and I why doesn't mean that I can only do a particular talk training and when I have clients and I've had many that say because of way my ethics lie I am not going to use any tools. I'm only prepared to use positive reinforcement. She's one of these. I'm coup eyesight of it's like I say will then I can't help you. I say have a very strong skill set in the positive reinforcement section but you have to understand that these problem would be best fixed not doing it that way this problem album would-be best fixed doing this and the certainly in her case positive reinforcement we can improve the doug dramatically and probably get to a point where she can happily live with it but in order to do so. You're going to have to be very very very good at it and there's GonNa be a lot of management in the meantime and you're going to have to do exactly as I say there's no room for for error. He this is GonNa be very per sauce because we have no way to correct any errors right yeah so we have to be errorless in our training raining. We cannot make any mistakes ever because we have no tool and any mistake will set us back a mall rife. We're only using positive reinforcement and management and I'm like that's fine. I can totally do that as long as you accepted. This GONNA cost you a lot more money because you have to talk talk to me a lot more and it's GonNa take a lot longer. I often explain to people like this is not lame on. This is not least invasive minimally invasive because it's GonNa take a long convicts with the dog in three sessions because not really significant problem in the document committed meted not that committed to the behavior we like yeah. I'm trying to speak so generally out this person as people will know and I'm like we could fix but if you want to do this is GonNa take a significant amount of time and it's GonNa take very significant dedication from you and I have to this point not been getting that dedication. She's been doing things that setting the dog back Oh going back to old habits and I was about to say well done right but what I did change to some like that was going to be a AH. Stop them say and I've done that and we play in the past because I was just hot on them and just like I told you do this. You didn't do it. You Finish try but what I realized with her is. I'm giving too much info once. You're so what I am now choking it down with by a hundred percent of told her. This is what I want you to do exactly this. If you do not do that do not ever call me again I will know is the second I laid eyes on the dog. I will know she leaves near enough to me that I am able to sneakily Alito Pasta House and sometimes see what the things that I've said every employee so not a big part of it is where the dogs catch so if I catch you even one time we have finished. We are done right because you're undercutting yourself this is I'm doing this for you but what I realized I was. I was asking way too much and like it wasn't way too much for me. I could easily do that and it wasn't way too much for most people they could do it but she's particular case. I have to try and the dog in front of me after trying the person in front of me so what I have done to avoid void breakout. This time is kind of in line with what I was saying is really clear deals of said like hey. This is what I need and I and it's measurable so every time we go around. I've like okay show me lost times thing and if it's not he with finished and she's motivated and it's it's where where there's a very very tenuously and it's not about money I would have caught her away and a hobby but I don't see another solution for the dope because even more skill Doug Okay China is not going to be able to help because the problem is not the dog right. She needs Boediono off is what she yeah but that's a whole nother issue. I hope I've sufficiently not identified that person but it's really talk about Pasta up slack. I would the pastas like not finished sale at you didn't do it. I say what's the point why you continuing to pay me like and with some people especially with sport people like which is where my heart is when people don't do what I say. I'm like. I don't care like I've giving you the information and the stakes of yoga point at just that you don't Pasta trawl that you wanna try all right so like it's up to you whether you go through this and it it of course this potential that what I'm telling you is not a hundred percent the best version if you think that's something the else like I'm totally fine with that. I coach loads of people in sporting endeavors that I- getting coached by many many other people and I don't care about that there was a time when I got upset about it when I was like am I not enough but now I fully died and because as I don't draw my success from their successes right I know my system works and it's up to you how much you only like how much you want to do it and I I then thought for myself. This is a letdown of my own Peter Because I'm not convincing them well enough. I I know that I'm taking it very well. Well I've got loads of people all around the world who kicking goals from the the advice and the training they've gotten for me. He upgrade post this morning. FACEBOOK <hes> think it was a group of light or the dog that is doing Tom shape yeah yeah. I saw that all the things that said and doing fantastic so I'd like I know I'm not the problem so people don't take it on especially in the sports. I have no problem with that. Hey I want. I'm coming to you for this specific case of the voice Yaris on down you know when I was <hes> learning all the skills and the pasta exactly the same thing. Hey your the leash Goi you teach me everything I know about the Latian and even even when I was like a feta person who could do weights as like go to specific people. I WANNA learn to deadly better. You'll all the deadliest goal I have a strength coach for general these guys the deadly go right like going to your specialist so I'm down with that but when and when it's a really behavioral issue we've got to stick together. We've got a focus and we God do the one thing because the stakes fucking high that does GonNa bought someone <hes> or it's GonNa bought and that person's GonNa get hurt or as I've told her you does GonNa bought the wrong person and the dog's GonNa get hurt right there on the spot because the dog is not strong. It's no committed to these behind van. It's GONNA come off the wrong person. That's GonNa crush it yet right and so the stakes are high right but with the people I'm like thanks alot. You just want Pasta trawl. No one's going to get hurt because you didn't pass the trawl so do what you want. I'll give you all the advice that I have. I'm not offended by you taking making it not in the fucking slot as to my note offended even if I give you the whole bucket of everything on on you take one drop for man. You're successful with that. I'm super happy for you but when it's behavioral stuff with is high stakes the dog the laughs dog is at the dog's life is at re. We have to fucking work together and you have to say <hes> because that the half Hafi when we find out it didn't work. He's GonNa be Astronomic extraordinary problem when it's proven Yep that's my rant very good points. I'm in the good position mentioned this before I know but I'm in the good position where I can be very selective about who I take on <hes> and I've actually flicked a few people because I found out with a they told me all through other people that they've been trying to helping and it's something I really care about them. Trying to helping it's just there is a particular thing that I do have an ethical standpoint on and that is that they don't tell me they doing it and then they come to me with advice on something and saying all what do you think about this and I'll go now. That's fucking bullshit and I find that it's from a colleague of mine and then go back and tell the colleague that all Glenn said that that's bullshit now site. I don't want to be a part of that so there's been a few people have recently who have but on that just an I think we've talked about this before it's never ever that it's really ever what the other person has said. He's Bushier. It's mayor interpretation away. They explain it to but that's right but but the whole point is I don't want to be involved with doing that so what I say to them is is. I'm not doing this any longer you with them and it's not a it's not like I won't talk to them and said to a few people we can be friends like we can chat. I'm just not advising you on training anymore. I'm done you've chosen to filled with a few different people while obviously not happy with what I'm telling you or you know and the fact that you're telling other because all got fucking on before it before it was recent where going the sites message man said Hey dude you know like I got feedback that you thought what I was saying was bullshit and I said what are you talking about and Anisimov mutual person that we've been discussing things we've came back to me and said that they gave you an interpretation of something and you you know running it down and I'll sit first of all exactly as you said a completely different interpretation yeah and secondly. I didn't know it came from your otherwise would call you directly or just made you and said you know what's the deal here. What are we talking back because we by saying the same person in both coming to consult so I just said look? I've completely flipped that person anyway. I'm not dealing with them anymore. Because exactly for this reason that way colleagues industry experts are believe in your work and I believe enough in mind to advise the person correctly what we're doing but I'm not going to be involved in this bullshit <hes> so if if people out there listening in doing that sort of thing you oh you should pull your socks up on that sort of stuff that sorta stuff is not call in I painting China's against each other and interpreting things Poli and if you do if that is the case then nine the person that you got the information from and to say look I am saying in somebody else. You might need different specialists for a different field site to the training that you wait. I'm training with this person. This is what they have advised me or along these lines. Maybe if I can get you two guys to sit together and speak we cannot adapt further uh-huh. That's my thoughts on that anyway yeah. There's so many different stories you Sarney's this many I've had I've had multiple people anyone's that you were describing before I flicked to you yeah they speak to me and in the initial kantale disarm- not Yoga Pants as well for coaching sports stuff. I'm happy to be one in the pizza by what I won't do. Sheep out someone else's system and like I say people I've had loads of people say I didn't even know it somebody else it's L._A.. Until I got outed on it now think faulk someone asked me something very generally and I give advice and then they swing out the well. These other person said this and I was like a cabinet with their within listen to them mm-hmm because I'll fucking there because you'll stupid interpretation of what happened is you explain it to me is probably incorrect and you can say there's people that are actually trying to cause a division. That's all I'm trying to do that with jazz like and it's like jazz told me this and now you'll sign this and I was like hey on. Did it happen in front of her and yeah okay well then do exactly what she said because I trust her implicitly and I don't trust you at all so do exactly what she said because she saw it happen right so do exactly what she said. Don't try and give me your stupid representation or your version of what you think your interpretation of she interpreted correctly. I trust her implicitly right. You do what she fucking said. Oh but no buts. Why like people do that? Shit all the time yeah sitting home bored and think that but anyway as I think that in all the things we're talking about when you talk about breakups in the dog industry whether for whatever reason or whatever I think it's clarity you have to be clear with paper. We have to be like hey. This is what I expect from the situation. You happy with that okay cool now. I'M GONNA hold you to it. This is what I expect from the situation you happy with that no okay. Let's find a middle ground I now. I'm happy with that YEP. Okay we agree. That's the agreement now. We've beholden to H._R.. We deal together. I think that that's the main thing for me. I just think this communication and when you come up with something whether it's a client relationship and it relates exactly to the dog I mean these Behavioral Sciences behavioral science whether you do fish ratio to two other people dogs in between like you make it clear Cape it cleared. This is what I expect. You didn't meet my expectation now. There's a consequence it simple and if he then go I have an expectation. You'll have have to guess it now now. He's a consequence well. That's fucking on fair. That's what I talk about teaching and using pressure at the same time you can't do those things at the same time cough got some people in the industry who we maintain friendships but I'll never do business with them ever again kind of made that painfully clear to them said as far as business goes. I cannot do it with your otherwise it will affect their friendship but having a beer and talk and dog shit no problems yeah yeah I think if you have those clear definitions with people then then you can coexist on happy plane to get because sometimes mixing business with pleasures is not a good idea yeah for sure yeah for sure all right. Hey we we. We didn't get to Randy. I we sort of in addition Yep. We didn't didn't even tell people about the whole homers Oh yeah how we we created. Have we told the Karma by remember. We've told that story before when we were first starting the podcast we had a whole bunch of episodes that got dumped because because we realized they were just it was awesome. Venting and the original name of the podcast was called the no home as doug trading fell cost because we were saying his dog discussion discussion because it was about keeping out the people that had headpiece dissolve and then realize that this we won't let anyone in and we'll we reinvented showed the total opposite right. It's for these your fancy goodness of actually hang on. Let me let me is another one just bear with us while and plays with these new toy in front of you all done preprogramed reprogrammed crickets and this one is one dish. This is yeah. This is going to end up like one of those terrible morning office please never do have you got the Fenton in there not yet all put it in yeah. We snuck one out before you're GONNA have to manually go back manually trip that up yeah <hes> all right. I think that we stayed fairly positive. Daniel hostas the question about breakups in the industry and so I think we've sufficiently answered it hopefully in the way that he wanted and again to recap for me. Klay communication can avoid that kind of thing and then it's buffet with the situation nations any final thoughts slim now I think we covered it well and as you said I think we managed to maintain pretty level headed. Discussion is a couple of times we feel E. Can you want to vent well. It's like the Queen Wayne Song. I just want to break free but yeah look. I think we've got a responsibility L. sales of you know if we're talking about this whole thing is realizing that sometimes you've been the cause of somebody else's misery of sent which I identify identify with. I know that sometimes piss people off to a point where you know there's a point in my return to the friendship. It's not always about how I feel about other people about how other people feel about me and that happened recently was with somebody they called me on something and although Al Friendship has somewhat safe or juiced I still apologized for my part in it and I appreciate when people do that with as well like if I have a discussion with somebody who feel passionately about something and I do give a heartfelt apology. It's not just a token gesture but a heartfelt apology like they realized that what they did was the wrong thing then that's something to work with for the future and for the person I pissed off. I'm banking on the fact that <hes> we will reconnect nick over things. I don't think that was a hopeless situation but you know piss them off and they called me on. It and I thought yeah you're right. It was a pretty shitty thing to do. You got me yeah. You got me all right. That's it for another episode of the Canon Paradigm as always if you like what you he plays Lock Right Shea subscribe subscribed vote. Just tell a friend doing that really help us spread the word of the show. If you want to support the show the best way to do that via patron three bucks a month. Get you an extra episode well. This show is brought to people now by patron yeah L. Patriot supporters are actually you are actually elite funding. This show like you are the people that bought that board that has the buttons with Glenn Can Michael The regretting the integrity of the show and make it sound like a horrible morning breakfast show but he's the thing like I just wanted my point is that the people who are listening into the show for free no guilt trip at all but you really do need to think the people who are on Patriot who are supporting it because they funding the show for you to listen to for free so patriots people. Thank you very much. I know you get extra benefits from it and that's going to continue. I always say this but I can't thank you enough because really it's making a massive difference to what we're doing and what we're GONNA do into the future yeah and if you're listening for free then you could only help us get a whisper room but we'll give and really you want that whisper. Whisper Room would be awesome. Wouldn't he. Lady Bug who says it wouldn't hear any of that only he the sound effects that you do all right. I'll keep trying to wrap it up. If you want to get in contact with us he can do that by email.

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Hello, Baby - Perfect Strangers Season 2 Episode 1

Dance of Joy: A Perfect Strangers Rewatch Podcast

1:00:17 hr | Last month

Hello, Baby - Perfect Strangers Season 2 Episode 1

"This week on dance of joy. We talk about trends in one thousand nine hundred eighty s adults sleepwear the healthcare system on an emergency closet pants all that and more as we re watch to episode one of our favourite eighties hit sitcom perfect strangers listener and welcome to dance of joy. A perfect strangers rewatch podcast. My name is imron and playing the role of my sister. This week is my actual sister. Sophia how's it going hello listeners. I just want them to know that we we don't just play brother and sister on a podcast. We're in real life just playing. We are actual brothers and sisters. Sometimes we play roles as better brother and sister and with that one in showdowns of i Just realized we only have one hundred and forty three more dumb jokes to come up with for the interest the remainder of this podcast leading will do further strangers do one hundred and forty three opening jugs easy peasy from knocked out by next week. In the meantime lister we have made it to the premiere episode of season two favorites leftover from larry surprise birthday. But that was the last season. Let's move on. We are in season. Two episode one titled. Hello baby hello baby again. This use of the word baby inland in the episode. Titles this time. I don't think it's a song or anything. It's just hello. Hello it's just an actual baby as we learned from the tv guide description which read in the second season opener. A pregnant woman from balconies citizenship. Class needs a place to stay so balcony. Offers her larry's apartment or more specifically larry's bedroom. All this is gonna be hilarious. A classic magnin pregnancy episodes set up. That's been done on many many sitcoms. This episode directed by joel zwick ridden by paula. A roth sophia feeble writer. The first one. Wow that's cool. Well you know it was the eighties and it was a episode about a pregnant woman. Said let's get the lady writer boys of the writing gruber like is there a woman anywhere. We get pregnant episode. We know nothing about it. still paula. we'd want help us out. Great appreciate you just trying to write it themselves. We could do this. I've see birth albright. This don't season two episode. One premiered september seventeenth nineteen eighty six now. The first episode was six seasons traditionally september fall is a new. Tv show. season is very exciting. Was for me because it runs like the school year. Right from september to like with a few breaks middle. You'd get all the new episodes. The season to the show is now on wednesday. And so it started on tuesday inbetween remember. Who's the boston moonlighting right. So they have a soft intro. Now not only on wednesdays. It is the lead in their prime time lineup. Setting up other new shows for example this evening september seventeenth eighty eighty six after perfect strangers. Was the pilot of a new show called head of the class. I episode of air question now. This is completely irrelevant to Younger generations of of media consumers in our day. This is not the case at all but back in the day when shows were on prime time and aired on network television. What was the hierarchy of days like that. You wanted to err on what was the best day to eran for most popular shows so i can tell you can day. I'll tell you the death date. This is a popular tradition. Anytime a show gets moved to friday night. First of all they have given up on the show and then they went into friday night in the third hour. They're like nobody's gonna watch this. We just need to air the rest of these dumb ethics. I think that prime time back in the day and now is still like tuesday and wednesday back in the normal world between seven blouse central right and there was eight to ten eight hundred eight seven central premiers on now a lifetime of watching network television on central time. And then i moved to the east coast. And it's re- it's still to this day jarring the other night i was watching. Snl and i had to wait till eleven thirty for it to start. I'll tell you what how east coast centric the tv show system is they just assume they start with eastern eight seven central. At least they remind you and don't make you do the math. I'm like oh boy. What time is that. Why why isn't it. Seven eight seven eight eastern yes. What about the rest of the time zones. They don't care. They're like mountain and pacific. You could figure it out on your own television in the afternoon racing We don't need to worry about you. But i and then thursday remember thursday night however i'm wrong. Tgif was on friday. wasn't it yeah so there must've been some kind of hierarchy. Of course all of that is moot now because now everything's streaming you know what else is mood is the idea of like fall tv season especially this year two thousand twenty covert and other productions shutting down. It has screwed up all the fall tv and with streaming. There really isn't any season comes out all the time around the year every day for netflix. They're like here's another show. You never heard of going to cancel it next to you. Anyways check okay. Let's get back to perfect strangers. Which was of course created by dale mcraven and starring our favorites bronze and pinch show and mark linn baker season. Two premiere. the first thing we see is that the opening credits are a bit evolved. They're a little bit new. They're they're wearing different outfits in the opening where they're standing next to each other adults are wearing different clothes different outfits their back stories are shortened just a tad and now the end bit of the opening credits. Include some of the best physical comedy scenes from season one. It's still runs for a minute. And a half which is still a bit long shortened a little while later but that was the first thing i noticed that the opening credits are a little bit evolve. Absolutely into their air shots of new bits of physical comedy. And i think it's be from season to. We're going to see a little from season one and then and then somewhere like wait a minute waiting for the one where he's holding up larry larry's reading like a cartoon you just imagine that wasn't that in the dolly parton episode. No no no. No no no i would remember that sweater. We haven't seen it yet. that's right. Act one listener opens again at lovely ritz discount discount between cassette of you but with the refrigerator that needs to be moved and of course opens with a physical comedy scene as every episode does so we see balcon. Larry coming into the front door of ritz. Larry enters i. And he's directing balcony as he's got a big dali like a a furniture truck with with a with a refrigerator strapped to it. And larry is directing and he keeps repeating this same phrase down here. We'll swing it in right on in here go right down and learning wing it in down. And we'll sweet. Of course he's doing. All the directing and bulky is doing all the heavy lifting and he calls out larry because of why i do all the heavy lifting. And you just this it in three. It had to which larry responds. What will end up being the basic premise. Or thesis of this episode. Somebody has to have a plan. And that's me and somebody else has to carry out the plan. And that's you but the point is that larry fancies himself as the person who makes the plan. We saw that last season right at the end. Last episode has planned for his. His life was like there. S larry planner and he and he prides himself on being ready and planned for different situations. Or even here. You know what it reminded me of the friends when ross needs to move the sofa and he's like but at least it's helping them but he just keeps At and i'm like that word has lost meeting. You've said it so many times so Brings in the refrigerator and then he swings it in just like larry says but ends up trapping leary behind it between the refrigerator and the wall and then gets distracted because the next character enters which is gina or a friend of belqis citizenship class. And she's very very pregnant. She and becky gets excited. He goes to greet her. Larry still trapped behind between the refrigerator and the wall balcony goes He introduces there. He goes gina. She's from italy that he looks that he thinks he's a clever. Then he goes. She's italian and becky takes off to bring her some places it down. And larry's is. I'd love to meet you. But i'm trapped behind this. I'm being crushed by this refrigerator and gina with her pregnancy strength. Paul goes free. The refrigerator and freeze. Larry lifted a car of accident on a trip child. She's just her dreidel in winter work and genus distraught and and we next learn that Her husband is a truck driver and he's often texas and she has no way to contact him and meanwhile she got evicted from her apartment as more go to contact her husband and she's distraught and she's crying and bulky says about the only person she knows in this country the only other friends she has and bulky says of course we'll help you and he ends up offering for gina to stay in not only in their apartment. But in larry's bedroom will excellently Sort of volunteers and then they just volunteer his bedroom. Saying you can't say on the sofa bed and you see that geeta offered you bedroom of course bowel keeping this kind hearted like innocent person. Who sees the best in. Everyone wants to be nice to everyone. How does this happen the genius she married to an american first of all talk about that too. I presume a truck driving american in texas. We don't know it'd be it could be like. Is he not paying the rent. They got a victim while he's away he doesn't know what's going on. He doesn't know it was one thousand nine hundred six. There was no way to contact your driving a truck in westchester. So after you know. Larry begrudgingly agrees. I love this line. As they're walking out he goes. You're gonna love it because house. He has a blanket that into the wall. 'cause you're kidding me what's that for and here's your first bout ism. He goes beats socks out of me. Who knows basically who knows to immigrants. They have no idea why you plug a blanket into a wall. It it does make a little sense upon. I wha what does it do like a fire hazard coins. Come out of it. What happened so we were still enact one. But we cut to the next scene. Which is at the apartment and bulky. And larry have just settled gina into larry's bedroom and they come out and they're getting ready to share the sofa bed in the living room for the night and they're both in their pajamas. But they're both wearing these long Almost full length robes over their pajamas that are tied tightly around them. Let me tell you this next whole sequence at the till the end until the commercial break. I was in tears. There's a lot of great physical comedy as they larry says let's hit the bed and they turn away and they take off their turn their backs to each other. It's like so. I've heard them talk about the scene. Oh talk shows. Okay where they were in sync about choreographing and they said the beauty of the scene is how they choreograph the movement so they turn their backs to each other as they each slowly untie their robes facing away from each other and they take off their robes. Toss him suicide then. They turn back to face each other at the same time. And there's this classic perfect strangers moment where they're looking at each other intently not saying eighty audiences just laughing. It's just laughter for several moments. Because larry's in a grownup adult matching pajamas. Set and is wearing. what yes. I was so jealous. I remember this up wearing adult spider man. Job all five. These are these. This is a classic. This is a classic spider ban. Pajama look it. Has the john or media drawing design on the chest with spider man. But you've got the red web's going down the arms and it's a two piece bottom is great. There's no mask or gloves. But the bottom has forty s spiderman movies and so we see just staring at each other no lines the probably both actors trying to hold in their laughter if you look carefully and the audience was laughing. of course. they're doing this live in one. Take in front of a live studio audience. The laughter stops. And larry goes those. He's he's passed very like what are those and baggy says this. My spiderman pajamas. And larry says let me rephrase that why are you wearing those and sweet innocent he says because my hime an pajamas are in the laundry goes of course i had asked. I love that. He has human pajamas also saying he says because my heyman tom laundry and this is the first time we see these spiderman pyjamas. I believe they come back. There will be more appearances of the spider man. Pajamas hill The he-man pajamas be great. Also leary throwing out a meema. Pretty predicted thirty four years later when he said what are those. I immediately thought of first of all black panther suri and black panther doing that to black there. But she's doing the mean where the guy sees the cops shoes and he goes. What are those. What are those ensure doesn't black there because what is nearly coincident. We didn't nineteen eighty six. We have a water. Those larry appleton meam from thirty four years ago. But you know if we ever get michael in baker on this show. We need task about that. I don't don't have spiderman pajamas myself but right now behind me. There is a spiderman blankets. Never did you ever because listeners. You might not know this unless you're a fan of Imran's other podcasts jock inert nerd podcast but my brother and co host is a huge spiderman. Fan he always has been since he was born. I remember you had spiderman everything spiderman bedroom set. You know garbage and curtains fresh but you never had pajamas. I'd never had the pajamas. I do now though own. There's a hoodie that you put on. And then you and he has a mesh face. Oh you back to the story in the jockey. Podcast where we go nobody right. Also larry's in a respectable adult sort of pale. Green pajamas said yes more greenery malaria whereas greens and blues the theme. In this in the wardrobing of the show and then we get more hilarious. Physical comedy a very hilarious whole physical comedy scene and throughout. This seem the best part. If you're going to go and watch it watch. Bronze and penn chose face. He is trying desperately not to laugh the whole time. And it's great. So larry frustrated at this point. He's like just grumpy he he didn't want the like he begrudgingly off offered his bedroom to this pregnant woman that he doesn't know and now he's has to share a bed with balcony and belqis in these ridiculous pajamas. Larry goes to sit down on the nearest side of the bed and balch slips in behind him to sit on the same side. So larry ends up sitting on so they go down into the seated position they both pop up right away if kind of choreographed and orchestrated to be hilarious. Learn a little argument because that we learned that that's side of the bed. So larry goes to the other side of the bed. They both get in. Larry go and belqis you see while they're getting into bed. Uc balch face. He's he's childlike little party. He talks himself. In when larry gets under the covers when he pulls the covers back. We see that balconies holding larry's hand where he's more annoyed by that. He drops his hand. But it's very cute moment and larry's annoyed belqis excited. They're in bed at this time. And then they have a little bit of a chat and balcony tells larry how much he admires him because not only is he willing to give up his bedroom to woman that balcony hardly know. What are we talking about the beauty of this scene as facial expressions bakery expansions as balconies dropping. These truth bombs so he. So he's like i. You gave up your room to woman. I hardly know and too because you care about me. You're willing to sleep on the hot side and larry's like what is the hot item. Michael baker Facial responses facial expression and responses to these lines are so so so explains early in the morning. He says you see that hole through the drapes right there. Early in the morning sun comes through and it'll bore a hole right into you like laser but they're pointing out front in front of the audience above the studio audience yet aren't they. This is a very interesting moment. I don't know how. I noticed this but it really stuck out at me and yet they're pointing toward the fourth wall toward the camera when he says you see that hole in the drapes the drapes are at the fourth wall and when i first rewatch this that stuck with me and i obsessed about like. What does the rest of that wall look like. We never see that while. What's where does that apartment. And it's something i don't know if they did it by accident or if it was improvised and they just kept it. But it's not something we ever see again and this show or in most other shows sitcom shows whenever references that fourth wall could have put pointed off to the side a to me. It felt very strange in its stuck out a lot obsessed over like what. What are you watch these shows. You always had a mental image of. What is this wall that you are kind of seeing through. I never think about that all with a hole on this side of the room anyway. That was a little a little thing that stuck in my head Larry is not happy about the hot side of the bed and he insists on switching sides. This part is great because the whole time you see dmitri up in the back on the sofa kind of sitting there And as they switched sides baulky grabs dimitri and lays it between him. As so as larry turns he gets but end of goes once in. My face says dmitry. He always sleeps with me. And larry's is not tonight larry's now in very foul mood not tonight. He grabs dmitri throws him on the floor. Balcony gets what belco very upset again child like an upset childlike innocence and upset. He he he prays to god. God god take care of dmitri on the floor because it's the first time he slept a loaded his whole short little life and larry feels bad. He picks up dimitri apologizes to balcony. And he says. I'm not the one you through on the floor. So he has to apologize to dmitri. Mark baker has a hilarious. Look for a moment. He turns his head back and dmitry right there and you could see in his face what he turned and looked at it snaps back into this. He's like god. I have to apologize to stuff. Sheep right down and then he gives them a sincere apology. Goes i'm sorry to metri. There's actually a lot of great facial expression moments from both of these actors. in this. i was crying. I don't know if those are planned or if they just did them but they were so funny like no line so it's hard to say when they come but there is a lot of them in this episode of the moment were bulky just hops into the bed like full body like jumps like which of course. It's not something you can. Do you wanna soda springs. Anyway they're they're finally like in bed getting ready to go to sleep there like winding down and balcony. Just you know casually chatting with. Larry he thanks him for helping gina and then casually mentions that the baby is overdue but and then he goes good. Night was two weeks ago lead. Which does that mean. A baby is two weeks late or more than because it was late two weeks ago. Two weekly anyway. So he mentioned. The baby was two weeks ago late and then he just goes night. Larry doesn't hear it at first. He says good night he closes is put down and then he realizes what he said and is suddenly wide awake with those panicked. Larry is and act one That's great stuff. I do is crying in in those little moments that whole time. We come back from commercial sophia and it's the same night in the apartment and now larry has a stop watching his hand. He's pacing around. He has a plan while geeta is a leap in the armchair in the living room. He's larry's been making balcony and angela. Go through his contingency pregnancy plan. Yeah and we find out that they've practiced this plan ten times which is tired and sleeping on the armchair and balcony says it's enough lead gene asleep. And now then. Larry says what i think is perhaps my favorite line of this whole episode. Larry goes okay. We'll probably make better time without her. Anyway that's not the line. He goes over to gina. He shakes her arm. He says gina gina. wake up. you can go to sleep now so so funny. Every single time. I watched as he wakes up to tell her that she can go to just a jerk sometimes but it is funny so bad. He helps gina up from the chair. And here we get the call. Back to the language larry was using the opening round straight back here. Scuttled zwinger around backed by the pregnant lady. She takes genus straight on back swings around takes her straight on back. To larry's bedroom is tired. Though as he comes back to larry. He says he knows his part. He wants to sit this next practice out. Larry is not having it saying. This is all your fault. Why don't you tell me she was pregnant. Goes what did you think. It was a beasts thing. I noticed that she's obviously pregnant. I mean why didn't you tell me. She was two weeks pass to probably but they got a map layer. He's got a map on the front door with a to remember maps. remember maps. We'll get to that in perfect strangers today. But there's an old school mab with a sharp marker route to the hospital. And larry is freaking out larry's freaking out and now we come to one of our little fun features in our podcast a little role. Play a little perfect strangers. Reenactment these are my. I'm for a perfect strangers reenactment because this is a very funny exchange. Okay you to learn a little bit about me. Pose this we do. I think i will be balcony in this excellent. So balki says cousin what. The big deal is in my gone three every time. A woman has a baby. She doesn't run to the hospital if every woman did that. We'd have to have to hospital in me. Post to have a baby is very natural. The woman is working in the field. She takes a short break. She has her baby and then she cooks dinner for eleven men. This is america. We make things a lot more complicated when a woman has a baby. She has to go to the hospital. That is a rule to get to the hospital. You have to have a plan now to you. Have a plan well. Of course i do. Don't be ridiculous what is it. I don't know. I don't know funny. Line and reenactment the fine line to me is. This is america. We gang things a lot. More complex true and still true to the hospital is a rule. Of course that's not a rule and many people don't go delivering. A baby in the old world reminds me a borat again. It's so bar at and you've you've lived in these countries so feel you know that there's some truth into what he say. Yeah they don't make such a big deal about it but and then the other funny thing we find out is that only has one hospital people's says exactly one car a seven eleven and we're building out the city island of people's little went to the hospital and they had a baby like in america. They'd have to us officials. Uh so now we have. Larry has a plan and we get to see them practice. The actual plan which is also hilarious The plan starts with them in bed. Right and with larry with a stop watch yes so first. They go to the bed and they review the plan. He's like do you remember the plan about says yes. I will get the suitcase from your place and larry. We'll call and you will call the hospital but before they start to practice. Baulky stops of maine says wait. Why do you want to call the hospital. And larry says fine exasperated lee he gives in he also says why. Why can't i call us. But on says because i'm the better communicator. Of the do and he says how do you know that and he says have you heard yourself talk. I'm talking you listened to you. Not dogging also larry tries to stop the start. Watching go. donkey goes wait. Goes what yes. They did a couple of times. Larry and says okay. Baulky can call the hospital. Finally the third time larry clicks out watching go run and then the physical comedy ensues balch instead of getting out on his side of the bed. Climbs over larry to get out and he runs very excitedly again like excitement to the phone. He picks up the receiver. He pretends dial and he's helo. Hospital baby is coming where he goes and hangs up feeling proud of himself finished. They finish the drilling get the jagged. They click it. And larry goes right. We're much faster without gina. Because he didn't want her there anyways so obsessed with his planning and having a successful plan that he's more focused on making good time. Pregnant woman just gets in the way. Let's be honest with algae routes plan. He's got the jackets everything is done. I love when balcony climbs over him for no reason. Suitcase case and also larry. We'll say back suitcase okay. I'll get the suitcase on. Call just like him driving up for it okay. So now they've practice and they're ready to go to bed and get some sleep but belka climbs into bed with an cuddles up with dmitry and larry. Of course larry says wait. He won't be sleeping tonight. Because somebody has to be awake and alert and ready. And larry says this must have been how is in howard fell just before d day all around him. The troops sleeping but not ike. He knew that one single mistake could change the course of world. History it goes leans in goes was this before or after i met her another. Alcoholism infusing cultural Tidbits and larry at this point has heard so many of these that he doesn't even explain anymore he just kind of takes side and he goes before the pop culture references also remember last season Balch was singing. What's love got to do with it. Yes tina turner and ike was famously. Tina's husband manager and then an eighty she. She separated became a huge star. The funny thing is at this point eighty six. I think it was the jokes. These were the jokes about ike and tina turner was that they would sing together and i think shortly after the jokes turned to like domestic abuse. I am tournament that movie with Angela bassett is a good. So you get the full story there. But in eighty six you could still make jokes about ike turner. I can t the recurring gag where he confuses cultural references. That sound similar. The larry's trying to stay awake. He's going to be the trooper. He's like i got this cut to the lights are out and they're both great concentration there. Yes so yeah great juxtaposition. I'm gonna stay awake. Someone has to be alert and ready next seen fast. Asleep larry's cuddling dmitri to which was adorable yes The next scene their sleeping gena comes out of the bedroom and she wakes peggy up. It is time all time larry. Despite his big speech is neither awake nor alert nor ready. he's cuddling dimitri and it takes actually a wild awake. What's is the light on. Why do i have a sheep. Doesn't wake up easily. And he tells him he says it's time the baby's coming. It's time for your plan. And then it clicks and he's suddenly pops wide awake with those frantic neurotic is says. It's time and gina also tells them that she been in labor for a long time already and didn't want to wake them up to bother them so that sends him even more at the top and he's he's panicking and he's screaming don't panic and then he panics. Earth's he clicks the stop watch and he goes go and then he turns around and immediately stumbles over the side. Table knocking over the land. Great physical comedy. That's all that stuff off the table. The lamp is like in his hands. Yeah and then rushes to the hospital. Which larry grabs the phone firm. And he's just full neurotic he's like. I gave you a chance to prove you were communicator. What did you do say hello hospital baby coming caveman of more than he calls the husband. He goes hello hospital. The baby is coming up the photo which is exactly what he said sarcastic. Yes the first time. So well larry's in a panic. Of course he's he's neurotic. he's frantic. He takes all three of their codes. He tosses them at gina. Who's outside of the apartment in the hallway already. He rips the map off. The door baggy grabs the suitcase and they exit the apartment. They shut the door behind them and they're off almost after a beat. The door opens again. May come back into the apartment. They larry doesn't have his keys. And were those in your pets where my pets there in the closet the closet. He's just losing it. He's searching all over the apartment. He's tossing things around looking for these keys. goes and gets the keys from larry's pants in the closet. Which is the coat closet in the front of the apartment like who comes home and hangs up their pants in the in the coat closet apartment. He that was part of the plan. They put everything they're just for ten nine. Maybe have emergency closet pants. Ready front door pan for door pants just the case. You never know what happens. It's a bachelor pad. Thinks get freaky about. He's got the keys. That's the point. And larry still freaking out. They they end up facing each other in another scene Very close to each other about as cousins. Someday you'll forgive me for this any slab bluegrass. It's so great. Larry is free. He's like why don't you help me. Where's the other because you feel better you know about this seem to is the actors right. So it's like a moment stopping like a screeching halt after the slap rate. And larry staring at him with those two guys and bronson pinchot slaps him and then covers his mouth. Because he knows he's gonna lab so it's so funny you just like covers his whole mouth with his hand and then he removes it to ask him like you feel better now and larry of course as no anyway they. They go to the hospital and act to they leave. The apartment and larry is completely like turned around he goes. I'll just follow you and then goes. Where are you going to geeta the whole time out the hallway for them. Yeah x three opens in the car. Leary's sweet red mustang from the opening credits Larry's driving kind of crazy about this is a classic thousand nine hundred eighty s Green screen type of. And i love this the bouncy car with the green screaming back like it's so great that anymore and what. The green screen is showing are presumably chicago. Streets and night in the middle of the night and larry is driving and balconies in the back seat holding gina's and we don't see gene. She's lying down but we see her hand and belka sort of looking down and holding her hand and he's and he's saying keep breathing keep breathing. And larry i don't think i can't think i'm hyperventilating. Talking to classic given birth joke. They're talking to you talking to the baby and then a car cuts off. And he's like what's the matter with you buddy you leave for your accident because jesus did you see that guy. How does somebody like that. Gets to be a cop cutting off also. Did you notice the first shot where they show the car making a turn. The hubcap of the back left higher pops off. It rolls away. That's how that's for emphasis. Howie radically driver shooting like an action movie. They thought i think that they set urges him to go faster. He's like this baby is almost here. Can you go any faster fine. I'll go faster but he misses the turn to the hospital. And then he hits a speed bump and we hear genus screaming and saying. Oh that's bad things up a little bit. The baby is now coming now in the car to grow over. She grabs his hair. His hair larry die cannot see gene. Let go of larry's head is going to have to deliver this baby. Himself he tells larry stopped the car. Right now larry slams on the brakes geos audio larry's free. He's like what's going on. Somebody told me somebody talked to me. And then you hear a baby cry. And then larry hilariously s goes. Who is that then. We here in a very sweet innocent gentle voice. Hello baby welcome to america. And then larry looks back it goes oh my god and his head just slabs down on the steering wheel on the horn car horn pans out. We're still hearing the horn. And we see that. They are stopped in the middle of an intersection going around. So what's interesting here is they. Don't show the baby actually. They don't show the baby they don't show gene. It's very pg for time. One thousand nine hundred eighty six. I think the producers were like Can we get a baby and put it in there. And then like wait. You can't just show clean baby this baby with just bored. Can we put some jelly on the baby. You cannot put jellies on babies. We're not gonna work you know. Let's just not show the baby. I think that's really didn't have a lot of time. They wanted to make this birth like waiting for like a hand or you know that shot wear cuts to usually in the sitcom birth hilariously it cuts to a clean baby wrapped up right away. No wrinkles this baby is just spot right all of that. They just had the baby cry and balcony addressing the baby so bulky delivered a baby and you don't say much more about i always thought like of course he knows how to do this. He was a sheepherder and probably birth. A lot of shapes live birth sheep. Yes this is. This is just one. He's only coming out no problem. I can have this and as he told us earlier. Women just have babies in their fields or whatever so he probably saw a bunch of babies being pregnant see where he doesn't have to shove his hand up to his inside to pull out a baby a good pregnancy well. We don't know what he was doing. Backpack seat but Anyways the back at the apartment We're wrapping up this episode and blair. Is shell shocked and bulky is treating him like boy. They enter back just like tired still in their pajamas and he's had a long day but he had a long day big boy. While you just sit out over here. And larry lets us know that he is feeling terrible about himself again of course and he had the perfect plan but then he panicked and he passed out. He says i panicked. I always panic and bulky tries to make him feel better and says a very good plan and larry's not having his. Don't patronize me. When somebody really needed me to do something important. I was worthless. I am larry. Just out in the dubs grumpy. Larry i can i can. I can relate balcony of course knows just what to say. He says okay. Well if you say so. And then there's a little facial expression moment between the two of them were where larry's kind of like what we're just going to agree with me now. So and he goes. Oh by the way. I'm gonna help gina find an apartment. I think we're gonna look delaney street. And then he does a little silent. I roll and a like laugh up to the sky. Larry turns around. It's ears perk up. He's like no no delaney. Street is all wrong. You need to have public transportation a supermarket a daycare center. He grabs us know. Patty starts taking notes and planning and he's like i'm gonna go with her. We'll find a good appropriate so says that's a wonderful idea. Genus is very lucky to have a worthless person. Like you tricks. Larry but larry gets it and appreciates it and now we're at lesson time one of the things. Yes hold on before lesson time. What do we know about delaney street in chicago to lean need that you know what delaney street right away reminded me of somewhere in new york That sounds street in chicago. I could be wrong but it sounds like something. I don't think there's a delaney street in chicago. We have yet to actually have any actual. Did they say actual chicago references. They might have been talked about linking lincoln boulevard which is not quite right they still. I don't think there's a delaney street in chicago. I it remained cavan in maybe thinking new york. I don't know why i was like i. It sounds like a street in the village in york delaney street. Okay well back to lesson lesson two lesson. Time and here w- the first thing we have is another first alert. This is the first family we tell us. Amy posey and saying in me. Pose ian ainu. You hear him. Speak me posts in me. Pause because saying me by dined home doesn't it it's home. Doesn't they will end up being a recurring thing where we hear a lot of me pose in things that sound very funny to our american ears you know. What was he where he goes. Ding dong ding when he was playing with demeaning the bed he was like ding ding dang phrase being doing. What does this mean those fear right. He says it says if everyone knew how to herd sheep there would be no one to write poetry. Larry nods his head and his. Do you know what that means. It means we can't all be good at everything. And that's okay and said that's what it means is dumb imposed saying everybody's learning stuff at which point larry suggests going out to celebrate the baby's birthday in the middle of the night. I guess what time is it must be like three in the morning at this point. Four five we another. Bogey as he goes. You don't have to ask me once and then we get another because let's go paint the town red white and blue two in a row Once again in this episode for maybe third or fourth time they exit the apartment. Shut the door behind them. There's a beat and the comeback into the apartment but first let's put on our pants and they both go again to the front closet to grab their respective pairs of pants that they keep in the coat closet door. The emergency closet pants roll credits. This was a really fine a really fine. Start to the season to sit. Lots of laughs like Like i said man. I was in tears in that whole their reaction their chemistry expressions comedy. We had it all a baby. We had a baby the plight of a pregnant woman about a man worrying about getting a pregnant mother to the hospital on time. Of course you've seen this in lots of other. Tv shows most famously Dick van dyke show. I instantly thought of the episode of. I love lucy and fred ricky gotta get everything ready and in the end like lucy goes on her own and they all like slam into each other. I forget what have we still see this story. Modern sitcoms Would traditionally it befalls to like the dad. But there's the situation really interesting. Like i could see you know. Imagine the writers saying. Hey let's do this. Classic thing about the but like balcony. And larry are bachelor's. They're young men. How are we going to. So i think they may work. I mean i. It's it's unique. It's it's funny. Imagine so imagine them as fathers like larry's going to be the overprotective anal retentive Crazy father balki would just be like the funded. Who doesn't doesn't get stressed out. That's funny that you say that. Because i just watched an episode in season. Seven exactly about that spoiler jumping ahead another something going to happen later. This season the character of genome really played by candy bulow. She's also gonna come back with the baby son. Who's will is named frankie on the episode title two men and a cradle episode so gina i had a pretty successful career doing commercials for something called mervyn's department store. I've never heard of it. But apparently the commercial was her standing outside the glass doors. Tapping i'm open open open and i guess the catchphrase stuck with mervyn's for many years possibly even to this day but she's also had been still exists. I don't know it might be out now. But she had a successful voiceover career candy meal as a texter. Celebratory lucia and maya and miguel. Maya so she said she went on to do fun. Things what are. Let's catch up with our favorite lines. Catchphrase count Don't be ridiculous. Donate said one time. just one time but but you know still memorable. We had a cultural mix up with. I can with eisenhower. I can tina. Because doesn't they bring up again at the end he does. When he's pitting himself worthless. I could be so disappointed. I guess what about you. We also had a i I mean posey in Saying yes so with your Dialect and your international language knowledge. Yes what that sound like. What kind of what. Kind of like a made up language is probably definitely is a made up language. We will hear a lot more. I mean posey in in in all of the other episodes and it is definitely a made up language. I keep bringing up borat because that some larry's obviously but it's what's interesting. This is my boy. I learned this and you still haven't seen the movies or not believe it or not. I've not seen either v. In in the borat movies when he's when he's talking when this two characters he does this wild thing where he talks in hebrew actually social burn call up but the other person will talk in a completely different language In the first movie armenian and the second bulgarian but they play it off as a sake lady glades but the thing is they. Each both actors have to remember what they're actually saying in context in separate languages and remember when each actor is speaking the language that that that that actor knows. So they'll know what they're saying. They know what they're saying but the other person has to know what the other person is saying in a language they don't know but they're seeing the same blew my mind. I was like what that's crazy. Why don't just make up a language like bulky. It's a lot lot easier. We will get a lot more insight into imposing language. Sometimes it sounds more like a real mediterranean language like a greek or something and sometimes it sounds completely You know and me being. Let's get into perfect strangers today in you know. We didn't do this last episode. I missed it. It's a fun segment extraneous. Today's there's a lot of things in this story. That would be completely different today. First of all we wouldn't have a map taped to the wall with like an outlined route to the hospital. We would just use a gps. You pull up ways then you fight over which celebrity you want to do the by morgan freeman. I want patrick. Stewart to tell me how to get there. We should just have balcony bartok targeted right hundred feet we could just hire bronson pinchot on cameo to record all our. Gps during the. Yeah can you just say on lincoln avenue for me in the next hundred feet turn left. Also they could have just uber to the hospital as a lot of stress. Yeah today there would be no situation in which you can. You would not be able to contact your husband or a family member. Gina would have in today's time. Gina would have multiple ways to contact her husband. She could tax. She could facebook message. She could you know whatever what's app and he would probably be a livestream watching the delivery and that would lead to hilarious gags like the battery's low at. He's trying to string together cords are. He's got a signal because he's out on the road somewhere so this is a huge change in not just the show in pop culture in society in the last thirty four years and i don't think people think about often is yes nowadays. Anybody can contact you at anytime from anywhere from remote locations you can. You can video chat someone in fact your phones have gps time but it just reminds me of when we were kids. We go out to writer bicycles. Our parents had no what we could have. Been dead in a gutter in a ditch. Somewhere how it's isn't that wild we didn't. I didn't wear helmets. Didn't wear any pads knee. Pads and mom didn't know where i was like could have been anywhere doing anything and nowadays people check in they've voluntarily. I'm here now. Here's a picture because we're so used to it now. I think back to even when i was in college now. I'm aging myself. But we didn't even in college. I didn't have a cell phone to like just after college. But you know they're friends. We used to use the pay phone at the student center to call all my friends in their dorm rooms on their landlines. We'd make a plan for meeting up and then we just had to stick to that plan and show up where we said we were going to show up. Well how do people do. I think i'm like how did this even work. It was just luck that everyone would show up at your able to that friend. You called in the dorm room. Couldn't call you back or calling from a payphone in the student center wherever you know what would be different today. I mean i. I was thinking about the luggage. And how everybody has those rolling luggage suitcases anymore carrying luggage rolling luggage. And then i think another huge change from a geek. We talked about my podcast. That i love spider-man alert valk he would have and tom holland. Diz defied spiderman pajamas. Not cool old school genre. Meter design spider pajamas. And it probably would have cost them a lot more to license. If you notice in the credits it does say thank you for marvel like they had to pay money for the license to be able to use the spiderman pajamas on the tv show. I totally did not notice that. And nor do i know these referencing. The teenager disney spiderman now in the mcu off cars. Tom holland that yes and they possibly instead of a sofa bed. I was thinking about the air mattress. Really see sofa beds. That do how annoying you ever tried to move a sofa bed. They are so heavy and then think pops out it is the worst thing pivot worst thing to move ever hate sofa bets. Yes so. I mean we do still see this theme in modern sitcoms but of course things are different. You don't have to call the hospital from a landline before you leave. You just like call them on the way or whatever. Things are different close into joke more states. Okay we got an exciting new segment. Dance of joy. We're going to do some shoutouts remain. You will well first of all. I want to a facebook group perfect strangers online. I love you run by The one lady. Her name is linda k First of all thank you for adding us to the group. And i asked her if i could post about the show and she very graciously said yes. She's also the lady who started the blog perfect strangers dot tv which we reference a lot. It is an amazing curated. Perfect strangers site indicate that you have created their info has helped us immensely. It's gonna be fun to having that. But i wanna shout out to linda k. k. Show a bunch of members in the perfect strangers online group who got excited and said they're going to listen and subscribe. So i want to say. Thank you to victor dish. Oh joseph rinaldi susan rotor whitener michael phillips and brianna wilkie. Thank you thank you. Thank you bring cited. Hopefully you're listening and then so we got some shots on twitter. You made a friend and then on twitter. We've got twitter user at whitney's zero three two seven and her full. Twitter name is whitney followed by a bunch of emojis. So i want to say her. Full twitter name is whitney star. Rainbow lollipop mermaid. Princess me whitney has written a some very lovely messages on our twitter. She says i'm a huge fan of perfect strangers. I've seen every episode. I know every catchphrase. And i know all the personal info about the actors. I love perfect strangers so much. I have a dog named balcony nor key. What's amazing and what does the snarky. You're a dog person. A miniature schnauzer and yorkie mix and she said i was like i need a photo and she sent a photo and he's adorable with the balcony. Adorable i love that. She has a dog they boggy. That's amazing and whitney also wrote in another tweet that she appreciates the podcast. And we'll definitely be tuning. In she says i have a chronic illness called sickle cell and perfect strangers have gotten me through many a pain crisis and hospitalizations. So thank you so much for having this podcast. Wit need this. I really appreciate this to all the listeners. Of course my co host and co brother noses. I also have a chronic illness. I suffer from a little bit of lyme disease and i know what it feels like to get those pain crises. And that's exactly the right description of pain crisis. They're terrible you're stuck in bed. You can't move and a show like perfect strangers. Something to watch something to have twenty two minutes of just joy to help you distract from what you're going through is just a godsend whitney i feel you. I appreciate you. Thank you for your note and we hope that our podcast can give you a little bit more of a distraction from what you're going through. I love looking at his connection. We're making already just like a few episodes in. You've already connected. And and you can relate to her. And yeah i hope i don i wrote back. I hope we can make you feel better to bite the there we go. We're we're we're we're forming connections. We're making the world a better place and staff so if you haven't yet followed us on facebook twitter and instagram. Check us out. Where at dance of joy pod on all three platform. Wait before we do that. I figured every so often we should probably plug our own stuff that we do. Don't we do other things maybe would want wanna check out. What what somebody else do you want them to check out that do severe. Well you can check me out at sofia. Javid dot com s. o. f. I a. j. a. v. e. d. dot com. I am a stand up comedian. I post stuff on that website. It's been a rough time for comedy. During the pandemic. I've been doing a lot of virtual comedy events on zoom and other platforms and and i update the calendar on that website. You can check me out there. I'm also at sofi javid on all the social media's check me out in as my sister alluded to earlier in the episode. I also have another podcast called the jock nerd. Podcast you can find everything jocking. Nerd dot com. We go over superhero and comic book tv and movie news and reviews. We do geek news. Entertainment we'll do a review of something every episode and you get three completely different points of view in this review. So there's something for everyone believe me. I've been running for five years. I have a lot of fun over there. I will caution the listener Than this show in one sense is we have a lot of potty mouth over there so just fair warning. It's not a family friendly show like dance of j. For work as dance of joy is so all those links put in the show description listener. You could check it out. We'd love to check out some of our other products products projects. I guess it's a product. Check us out on social media. Jack and nerd is on all the social media. Sophia javid comedies. On all the social media. Check us out. Give us a follow share with your friends. We would really appreciate it then. Make sure you subscribe to this. Show if you haven't already you can find it in all your major podcasting apps This way you'll never miss a show next week. I got a little promo from the tv. here's a little tease for next week's episode wednesday i am banning. The bug bites balch extraneous. Then the love bug bites arvid class right after her strings are yes we will be working out with bulky larry next week you don't wanna miss that we would love to hear from you as well. You can write us with any feedback comments stuff you want us to talk about on the show you can write to us at dance of joy pod at g mail dot com. And if that's too much if you can't be bothered to write words you can speak words to us. There's always a little bit easier. If you go to speak pipe dot com slash dance of joy pod. You can leave us a voice message. Visit our website dance of joy pod dot com for links to all the stuff in our twitter facebook instagram. Our facebook group and of course listener the most important thing. Share this show with a friend. Don't be read. The word of mouth is the best way that will help us get more listeners and Share our love of perfect streak and now we're so happy we do the dance of us. Dead pay pay pay.

larry Larry gina dmitri Baulky imron joel zwick roth sophia dimitri dmitry belka dale mcraven mark linn baker larry larry balcon larry fancies larry planner geeta leary paula
Episode 65: Tyler Muto Round 2

The Canine Paradigm

1:06:35 hr | 2 years ago

Episode 65: Tyler Muto Round 2

"Wants happening in the canine industry for all the latest news views and expert opinions stay right here for the canine paradigm. You'll hear from industry leaders experts doyennes of the industry learned colleagues movers and shakers and the odd. Randy guest. Get the latest insights and expert advice from both here and abroad from the people in the know now here your hosts Glenn cook and Pat steward, and I'm lofty Fulton, and I'm outta here. I Pat has are all my Jason. I hear he's doing fantastic. In fact, he just keeps selling so much gay to L loyal listeners at such remarkable process. What's he got? He's got. Good question. Everything bowls togs laces didn't think bowls and tug should be said in the same sentence. Will we just did mills? That's what Jason's pumping out like hope. So I Paul. Hi, Jeff, Jeff mills. Yep. He's got them. All. Episode on patriot. So a lot of people learning about how to use the mill yet and getting them from Jason sleds now, sleds and Hera shirts. I assure you tested with remnants of the parachute. I can confirm it in flight. I know he still doesn't have a website. So if you'd like to buy something from Jason could be a home spring autumn, you could get that from Jason. But you have to do it through Facebook. And in order to do that you have to head to on's. We don't quit which is heavy spill that A N Z W A say on Zwick on Zwick, don't quit. Welcome back to the Kennan paradigm. Y'all patched Jewett I'm joined in studio today while my co host Glenn cook. And today for a second appearance on the show coming all the way from Buffalo New York, we have missed taller Muda. Hello, welcome back to the show taller. Great to have you back again. Thanks for having me. Always welcome buddy. Hey, so as we're just doing all the sound checks talking about whether a little bit what's going on in buffalo, all kinds of craziness. We go from subzero temperatures, which is fair and height here. We have listeners all over we've gone from subzero, which is really cold to fifty degrees, which actually relatively nice within like a daytime span and then break back down to cold again. So it's been a kind of wild ride this winter, but we've had some real real cold snowy weather, so far, and that sub zero Fahrenheit to isn't it. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So what is that? That's lively mine. Twenty. I think there was there was something I was reading yesterday. Well, just browsing through the internet, and it was saying that there's a pot in Canada, which is not far from buffalo that is colder than MAs and the Tactica really. That's crazy. Ended assess something like that suss Schoon catoon Saskatoon. Perhaps just catch you on. It could have been. I'm not sure it is quite a mouthful to say some of the towns in Canada. But it was saying that it's so called that it's called her the MAs. Well, yeah, there's a lot of areas of Canada that are named after native tribes. Those words can be a little bit cumbersome or those that are native. Yeah. Arm when I was in the army this when I say ghanistan rod is that this places that Hoda, and there's places that are called the, but there isn't too many places that have that temperature range from six months of the year, go from seventy degree celsius temperature change. You can get like, I remember, we know this is another lowest story pulling up these people get rugs up so much there that you can literally blow they will they on with an explosive, and then you have to go and wake them up in bed. 'cause they up so much when it's like study degrade. Anyway, that's my story. Did you hear something outside? Yeah. So when you're on time, and we will biting bite it everybody that comes on the show. We say, hey, next time. Why don't we talk about some dog training stuff instead of just diving into history? And that's what you need to do. So what are we talking about? While you guys gonna leave it up to me. That's. Well to lead into it. Then we were chatting offline UA saying that there is a new train popping up in the states that is alarming you'll self and to be a caught onset salami us as well. When we talking about the topic of it. But people bragging about the fact that the dog doesn't do any Abadie. It's yeah. It's not thing. I mean, I guess I'm not so much alarmed by it. I just think it's kind of interesting or silly in a certain sense wanna sound I mean to each their own. I don't really care personally. I just think it's an interesting conversation. I guess I'll put it that way. You know to discuss why this thing might come about this this sort of juxtaposition between like behavior modification or rehabilitation versus obedience. And that's the context that I'm hearing it where hearing people that focused primarily on behavior. Mod they go. Oh, I do I do behavior. I don't do Abedian, which is total. A reasonable thing from a professional standpoint. But then that rolls into with some people not all like really like dragging that like my dog doesn't even know how to sit or nine don't even teach my dogs this which is I guess just sort of like a strange thing to brag about I think it's a terrible thing. I think you can have really well mannered dogs that don't know Abedian. I mean, take a look at Cesar Milan's dogs. I mean, I've been to his place dogs are really well mannered really well behaved they're very free to do whatever. And that's very beautiful. But like he doesn't he's not like bragging about not teaching sit. He just doesn't do it. It's just it's just like an odd thing to brag about it to me. It's almost like this like a status thing these days or like a fad. I think it's just an interesting topic. I guess this juxtaposition between obedience and rehab and where the two overlap and where maybe they don't because there is some I think some really valid arguments for not using. Obedience in certain ways. But I'm a whole obedience. Sure makes life a lot more convenient with dog. So it's it's you can go all kinds of directions there. I guess so. Yeah, it's it's a weed paradigm itself is a like bragging rights at my kid. Doesn't ahead a spell in read. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So I think. I get it to a certain extent and the part of it that I get that. I think is completely reasonable as I think for a big part of contemporary dog training history. I think there's an over reliance on obedience. And what I mean by that is if you look at the majority of even like, the dog training schools around the states today, at least the ones that I'm familiar with their curriculums, most of them don't really teach anything that's really in-depth about behavior. Modification what a lot of schools teach. What a lot of seminars are teaching and even what what I used to do when I was newer to dog training was really just kind of say focus on the obedience. And then give the dog lots of structure by using the obedience and sort of like fingers crossed the behavior problems will go away. And I think there are a lot of situations that works for you might even be able to argue that the majority of situations that will alternately work. But I think there's a couple. Problems one being of course, the obvious which is it's not going to work in all situations. And if that's all that you've learned then when you encounter the dog that okay? The owners does all the obedience the dog listens. They're doing like place command while they eat dinner, and when people come to the door, and they're doing all the structure stuff. But when the dogs, then not in command, it's still a jerk or like on place, but still really tents growling barking or anxious or whatever. And so if that's all you've learned than you're kind of stuck in those cases, then I think sort of the other side of it is I think there's a lot of cases where that may be the most efficient path forward like there some behavior problems that are really just like, you know, what? No this dog needs to learn some basics had no no chance. Right. But I think there's a lot of other situations where even if that would work it's not really the most efficient way. Like, it's not the obedience that's fixing the behavior problem. It's something else that took place as part of the obedience whether that is the owner starting to behave more assertively or more consist. Bentley or instilling some other boundaries. And there may just be more efficient ways to do that. Because of course, the reality is teaching dog new skills takes lots of repetition. I mean, hundreds of repetitions arguably, right? And sometimes if you can kind of target the behavior problem more accurately, you don't actually need to do the obedience. You save yourself. Thousands of repetitions if we're, you know, summing up the like, the five main commands, for instance, you know, come sit down he'll plays or whatever, you know, you happen to teach so scenarios where it's like a legit argument that you know, you're better off not going the obedience route or at least not like right off the bat. But I think that's very different from like saying, I never teach obedience or like bragging about being like a special thing to not teach obedience that to me has too much of a fad kind of feel to it. And I don't know. I think it's you know, it's interesting. But I think it's an interesting dialogue that needs to be had as far as like not have. This over reliance on sit down stay because like your dogs now biting people because nobody ever taught it to sit. You know, what I mean, like there's there's a lot of other reasons, it's pleading people, I agree. I think I've been guilty in the pasta of just teaching a lot of obedience because something enjoy doing. I'm good at teaching people. How to do that with it? And so certainly have been guilty. This to behaviors often side of people if you have to have is you have no problems with the dog is one hundred percent reliable Ray Cole and down at distance. So that you can have all these big issues with the dog. But if you can call him off of anything so fees Inigo bought someone, you know problem. And if he's if the problem is between you and him, and you can down him and hold that down. And then you can go get him. There's no problem is anyone more that to that. And it's not pulling on the light. Yes. If you've got all three of them. You've got the golden triad. Yeah. Yeah. Autograph that and then and then, you know, I've we're of in the pasta guilty as well before. I I really understood behind him more. Maybe as well as I do now was also just teaching focus like I've been so guilty of this as well saying, hey, if you can steer you for two minutes, despite the distractions you also have no problems, regardless of what he's reactive to because in two minutes. You can get that dog Atta the scenario, and for sure was probably the opposite for a long time where I was like, you know, just those few behind is. Decca me, no problems. You can have the biggest asshole dog in the world that can be total Falko when you're out. But if he can do those things, and if you trigger is whatever like while the days, if you trigger especially if it's a peculiar trio that you don't react to while this aching out all the time to put you through that when you can just bring him into focus, and he doesn't even say the trio that was a wall ago before I understood behavior to be as important as these. But I definitely grew what you're saying twyla in that think sometimes to act of teaching the obedience is not the having you that he's the fix for a lot of people. It's the active teaching it's now that they probably spending more time with the dog lucky said hundreds and hundreds of repetitions to try net behind. They've just Bruin struck shy structure was probably the only thing that's missing. So then we agree. We do have to ask the question. Like, maybe just having that structure would be enough without having to take any obedience. Yeah. For sure I think the distinction to is like a retaking about. Management or we talking about rehabilitation. There's a lot of situations where the end goal is going to be a combination of both obviously in any situation that we can just shoot for rehabilitation and not have to worry about management. That's obviously the ideal. And then there's some situations that are more heavily reliant on management. So like the first part of what you were talking about as far as you can recall the dog off of a threat or drop them into a down at a distance like, that's that's great for management purposes. But of course, the problem is then you're always managing. And then the second part of that is, you know, in the cases where it's not about management like you go through the process of training the dog and all of a sudden the dog's not trying to bite people the all not acting fearful. But it wasn't really the fact that it learns those specific skills, generally speaking, there's something in that process that helped bring the dog into a more emotionally, healthy or stable place. And so we can look at that and say, well, then what is it in that process? What what happened was it? The owners assertiveness was it that there was more consistency. Was that the owner was paying more attention to good choices rewarding? Good choices was it. Just simply the fact that all of a sudden there are predictable and meaningful consequences in the dog's life. There's all these different things. And of course, different different situations. Call for different elements of that. But I think if you can train yourself to recognize what what of those elements are needed. There's probably or my experience. There -absolutely is more efficient ways to go about it. That don't require you to go through all the repetitions of teaching and in my practice. We would do that first. And then we would teach obedience because I do think that behavior problems or not personally, I think it's a lot more convenient and just a lot easier to live with a dog that is obedience trained, you know. But I also think that if you get rid of that underlying stop if you bring the dog to a healthier place, you don't need to be as strict with your obedience, which is kind of nice because if you need to be super strict with your obedience. Ultimately, that's going to mean, a lot more of also a maintenance schedule of negative reinforcement and positive punishment on all of those obedience commands. Yes, if you just target these few things, your overall use of of pressure of any sort is going to be greatly reduced, and you could be a little bit more relaxed about your obedience clicker train, the obedience for all I care if it gives you the ability to have some control and live peacefully with the dog and tell them Belay down when you need to it cetera. And so I think there's you know, there's a lot of benefit in looking at those differences. But I personally am not willing to throw obedience out with the bathwater completely because I think there's so much benefit in it. Let me just play something out in my head because I've been thinking about a fair bit recently. I haven't haven't tried to talk talk it through. So this is gonna be the first month's fucking stupid. And luckily to experts that can just pull me up. But I think about when people training a reactive dog ate before they call the China. That reactively from the other Dogo the pressure that that other dog puts on your dog is a form of native reinforcement and your dog has Lockley found a way to turn off that pressure boy aggressing towards that dog or whatever and the dog leaves. Oh, you take him out of the situation or whatever it is. I think most people sort of understand and acknowledge that and then by doing training, you change the reinforcement streets in now bay that there's a positive reinforcement of two may any no that negative reinforcement. And it's not that that negative reinforcement needs to go away. I think about it in terms of imagine training, the other way imagine doing protection work, and my obedience in protection work, you might use a on a on a very low level in normal obedient. But they need protection with the reinforcement history and the distraction from the help are the decor Hoya. So maybe I'm using more pressure like a high level on a people sort of don't realize the same effect can happen with the other dog the other dog he can't. Well up the numbers. So he's precious. Having he mayors is like two out of ten and without dog having done obedience with you and and found a reinforcement history. Anything that comes from you. If you're just fading from the ball, and that's how it gets food. And is when he's out and about this never an assumption that he might get a reward from you, there's no reinforcement history. So he only has that negative reinforcement history from the other dog and day four it's always worth doing it. And he it's difficult for him to ignore that level two out of ten because it's there, and then when you start giving reinforcements it's exactly the same as what happens the opposite way with Ari caller. And then realize there's more distractions things going on he's reinforced by the help need to go up level to Cape him with me the opposite happens only that dog he's a level two. He can't go up level. He would ease becomes the distract. He becomes just a distraction that the dog is as Lee of come with does that make sense understanding where I'm going with that? In that. It's people just realize it's it's a that dog is reinforcing yogis Bach and carrying on it and reacting that's a negative reinforcement. He's trying to push. He's trying to take off that pressure and the pressure. The pressure doesn't go away when you have a high reinforcement history from you it just is so little it's less than the reinforcement that you'll giving. So he knows that completely. Anyway, that's what I'm planning on. I think a lot of people have don't get that that pressure still from the other dog. It's just he doesn't case much anymore. So you'll sign that eventually the dog wouldn't say a reduction in the level. Appreciate from the other dope. Well, he eating evacue vacuum. No. But but would never in that. So he would always so long as you will with the he's wears reinforcement. History has come from PayPal now fading out there or whatever. So you he would say reduction in that it would have to be but only because there's a new rainfalls when history available elsewhere. We've come back. I think at that stage. You sorta broaching on the desensitization process because you definitely going to Canada conditioning the training program, but you're also desensitizing the job at the same time vally. So the presence of the other dog will add one point. We'll definitely have a level of sensitivity. But I mean with any program that you doing like that the I'm and the NBA of what you're doing is to actually save reduction. So eventually, the doll will say the other dog inside, you know, while it isn't what I thought it was there's no pointing fee. There's no reason to feel the way I feel because nothing happened nothing. Rainfall. Yeah. I think the kind of take it one step further starting interrupt. You not the discussion. So yes. So I think okay. You've got this dog who's reactive to another dog. You've got that negative reinforcement history. So certainly you can work on you know, providing positive reinforcement for an alternative behavior. Right like to stay close to me, pay attention to me, etc. You're gonna get some desensitizing or habituation. And that's usually because in the dog's mind the reason that dog that's walking across the street with its owner didn't come over and attack. It was because of all the noise and lunging at it right now, you've distracted the dog essentially with your positive reinforcement didn't lunge bark at this other dog and the dog's still didn't come over and attack it so eventually goes, okay? Maybe what I was doing was not necessary. But the other thing that we like to focus on because I think for me whenever I'm looking especially a rehabilitation, I look at what people commonly called functional rewards, right? So we say what is the function of the barking? Lunging cetera. Well, that's to make more space or at least to maintain space between themselves and the other dog. So I say, okay, I wanna teach this dog another behavior that achieves the same function. So for instance, we teach the dog that if it disengages I contact from the other dog and looks to us not only might we give positive reinforcement, but we're going to also provide negative reinforcement by moving that dog away from the trigger. So he goes, oh, wait a minute. There's a release valve here. I don't need to scream and shout. Because all I have to do is ask you politely for some space. And you'll provide that space for me if I show you that I'm uncomfortable. You'll position yourself between the dog, you'll assume a certain body language, and that makes me feel more comfortable because you look like you've got the situation under control, you appear that you you understand me you understand that I perceive it as a threat, and you're behaving accordingly. And now, I don't feel the need to act offensively rights. There's all sorts of different ways that we can still use it as a negative reinforcement protocol. We can do all of this. Without any positive reinforcement, technically, although the positive reinforcement certainly will help where teaching the dog alternative ways to relieve that crusher that are more pro social ways, right more socially acceptable ways about that. And I think when you do that you get a sort of compound affect because sort of kind of go back to your analogy with an E collar imagine you've never felt in electron of collar before. And I strapped one around your neck, and I put a lock on the strap. So you couldn't take it off and held down continuous and just started gradually turning up that that dial, right? Pretty early on. You're probably going to start feeling panicky because you don't see the escape route. You're like man this. I don't know where this is going, but it's not gonna be good right now. Contrast that with I give you an economy. I tell you to hold it up to your own neck. I say, listen, I'm going to turn the levels up whenever you wanted to stop just take it away from your neck, or even if I buckled it, and I said, hey, whenever you want to stop just let me know all stop. And I'll take the buckle off. And now. Oh, you know that you can ask for relief from that pressure. You probably will tolerate that level going up much higher before you start feeling panicky because you know, that all you have to do is ask politely. And what we find is. When there is a low stress behavioral option to to relieve pressure. The dog. She tolerate a lot more than when the only way to relieve pressure is a high stress option so all that barking in lunging is really stressful. And if that's the dogs only way out, then it's going to it's going to be it's going to intimidate stress. No matter what. And from the site of a dog. It's gonna start loading up that expectation, but the dog knows, hey, wait a minute here. If I need out of this situation. All I've gotta do is look to my owner or dunk a little bit behind their legs, or whatever it is that we're teaching the dog to be a more socially acceptable. But still natural what we would call cut off. You a lot of dogs will start to tolerate higher levels of pressure because they know they have that escape route. It's kind of like. If you ever hang out with somebody who is a goer phobic who has maybe a little bit of PTSD if you like restaurant with them as long as they can see the exit. They're pretty fine. If they can't see the door, they start to panic, and like, I know people even that will be able to tell you exactly how many footsteps it takes from where they're sitting to the door. But I don't people with PTSD have to sit with her back to the wall as long as they can see the exit. They're good. And I think that's a lot of what we're trying to do. Also with those reactive dogs right is to show them that there's an exit route that doesn't require high stress behavior and it works reliably. And if there's anything dogs are good at his conservation of energy, right because in nature calories. Don't come cheap. So if we can teach them ways to achieve their goals that use less calories, essentially. Very good. Good for you know. Yeah. I one hundred percent of mobile with that. And I think with so many people that dogs. Don't trust them. I guess because they going somewhere with the dog and the trigger the other dog in mythical dog. Hey that we're talking about is going the other way. So they drag them possed. There's never the opportunity to get probably gives all the signs early stages like want to confront that. This is too much. And then you've left me no choice. This is what I have to do and bit because we're going in all directions, we have to confront each other. And it's I definitely agree so much with that idea of showing you go on to turn around like a signal where he says to turn around, but then teaching the people to pay attention to that and listening K. Okay. Yeah. We can cross the straight, and then that can feel a little bit defated. Sometimes people think some people like all, you know. But it's like, no, you he asked you need the space you give him the spice. It's like you gave up running away from the dole. You just giving him the spice ost into Royat y rather than we'll make you give spice in the wrong way. That's one of goals really in all that. We're doing. Especially considering talking about people being proud of the fact that they don't want drops stikes Tra. I think if people talking about the pride behind having some form of relationship with dogs that should be like an into Spacey's communication where people developing language and understanding knows cues being very clear about it. When they say that the dog is queuing something, and there is distressing the area, they should as you've said toilet before. When you somebody who's got PTSD. Agra phobia or something like that? If you understand those cues and you'll in communication with that person. Then the two of you can collectively work together to have a strategy that if something happens that's uncomfortable for them, you both know what to do that's based outcome in that situation. I believe that cyber dog certainly, and I mean, if you were in a foreign country, and maybe you were in sort of a rough part of town, and you didn't know your way around, and there's nobody around you, speak your language, that's a way scarier situation than if you're in that same part Italian a foreign country, but then you bump into somebody who also speaks English. You know, what I mean, all of a sudden, you get a little sense of relief because you know, you can be heard, and I think that's that's an incredibly important thing. When we're talking about rehabilitation. I mean, so much of it is for me at least with the work that I do a lot of it is teaching people how to listen to their dog. It's that it's that two way communication because you have to develop trust and repore and not everything. Is just about, you know, learning to respond to this signal in this way, you know, at a certain level we want to develop the relationship in a more organic instinctual natural way. And I think obedience is a great way to do that. I mean, so on one level obedience provides a framework for you to learn specific ways to communicate certain things to your right? If you need your dog to move downward. That's what teaching down is going to teach you how to do that you need to follow. You teaching. He'll is going to teach how to do that. So teaches you how to communicate certain things just like if you take a martial art, and you learn kata or forms or whatever the discipline. There's a certain amount of just practicing technique where you're not actually involved in like hand to hand combat. You know what I mean? You're just learning how to move your body in certain ways, and how to make certain things happen, and how to respond to your partner and certain ways with with drills with pad work or whatever. So. Yeah. I mean, I think it's it's not always just about stimulus response. I think we really do ourselves an injustice, if we if we narrow our work down simply to that, you know, something that I've always wanted to take a dental advocate the opportunity to do these es to have a reactive dog. Use a bring still to to indicate that he wants to leave. You have a saying bring. So like that they have with. Saint same Jews it when they find somebody used in a fine situa- rescue found someone. Yes. So the Doke someone usually win they're awfully tracking it long distance. They grab the brings bring it back to the peseta people listening to a little bit. A Dow that hangs off the dogs Nick phones, gone missing in the woods. He bought that runs back to his handler and shows him found him and I'm communicating that I found him by holding. They my neck holding the data and my mouth rather than lose around my neck. I'm so curious it would just take too much. If it for the average person. To pull that off react. But I reckon that will be walking awesome. That's the thing. Really with the average person that we're talking about. I mean amongst us amongst out community talking to and putting a message to lot of people who high-level Dogan, Thursay assists, all of these matters to. But when you go round to the general public as we have I mean, you've done consult with the general public. I'm talking pet, and so if you tal- eve done an extraordinary man, so it doesn't really met it to a lot of these people. Hell well, the structure of Beattie's with the dog providing that they have a level which they think is suitable for the home. They don't really cave. The dog is doing snaps to heal Tofig to inline seats Ray cold front. None of that. Really? I mean, I still teach people a high level when I'm doing anything with them because I believe that if I teach them a high level when when I know they gonna slack. Off if I gave them attain, and they get to a seeks they will probably on the expecting three. It's going to be a situation for everybody. All round. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're that way with our board and training, we try as much as possible. Yeah. When a dog's are inboard and trained to get them to perfection knowing that it's going to drop off a little bit. When they go home, but still going to be above what most people standards are. And that's totally fine. I always tell my staff that you should have higher standards than your clients. Just don't be more committed than they Arcos. That'll that'll end up making miserable in your work. And that's a very good point. And braille bait them on that fact, as well, you've got to have a level of understanding that way professionals in training dogs, they notch their application the full with the doggies is generally fob below what ails these? So what we need to do. I totally agree with you all have a sign with my staff. That's throw a rock stars and the moon. It was a good throw. And that's what I want for the clients that we still trying the dogs as high as we possibly can get them to and. So make an enjoyable and rewarding for the dogs. So when the client takes IVA, they still have that access to the dog. It's still undisputable the dog knows that level. But if they failed to maintain it it isn't on us. As fact as the like, if somebody came back fragments I can say my dog doesn't know how to be 'obedient what you did doesn't work. I've often proved to people in like literally seconds when taken the dog off them and the dog has recognized all the cues them giving it and it starts to fall in line. So therefore, I consider the client it actually does know it. It's just that we need to marry the two of you up. So you have a bitter understanding each other, and then you can start to take before doing. So when you taking the dog home, you can simply see that you have given the dulled well what I should how should rephrase. Familiarity, breeds contempt because you've had an old structure at home. The dog is recognized those old cues coming back into line. Again, the dog is just like an opportunistic lazy person and displaying. Well, now, I don't have to do that anymore. I can go back to the old way of doing things. And it simply just passing the baton on to them and saying you have to just do at least if they do the bay minimum. It's still going to have a major benefit of the relationship and they're on the standing in the language between the two of them overall. Yeah. And you know, that actually made me think about something that I was actually just batting around earlier today. I was I was reviewing some of our marketing materials and for the longest time since the day. I opened my business on my website in one of the things about our training. It says, you know, any dog any breed any distraction or a dog listens to the first time every time, I think is saying that us first time every time, and I kinda was like man, you know, what like I don't really like that by anymore. And the reason I was thinking that is, you know, there was a period in my development as a trainer where I was really into a lot of sport training on my third Mellon. Now. I don't really do any sport training anymore. But there was a period where I was really into it. And I was really. Into technical training stand stand still give your verbal cues. Make sure the dog response, and that was really kind of the standard. I was using and the mentality. I was using for training. My client dogs, you should be able to say the word without moving a muscle and the dog does it, but the real reality is that that's extraordinarily unnatural for a dog. And because it's on natural requires maintenance, right? It's gonna require a lot of maintenance. And the average person's just not going to do if you're promising that they can just say those words without having to do anything and the dog is going to do it. The first time every time you're kind of setting people up for to be a little bit disappointed or a little bit frustrated, and you're also setting yourself up to have this standard. Where you probably if you're trying to do that in a four week board and train like you really have to you've gotta hustle. You know, you've got to put some pressure on that dog not like physical pressure. But like. You've done. And I mean, it's just not really how we operate anymore. I'd rather teach the client these days how to behave in such a way that they can get the dog to do things when they need them to do it. Even if that means getting up off, the couch and using their body language in a certain way, we used to work so hard to get rid of body language. And I still think that at some point in the training process you need to ensure the knows verbal cues. So that part and training remove the body language. Keep yourself still make sure the dog understands it. But when we go to coaching a client, I'm actually spending much more time these days on like, hey, listen, like give the Q. Here's how you follow through. And when we teach people how to behave in the way that the dog can naturally understand or more instinctively understand because body language is so much more instinctual to them. And when that's the owners sort of standard of what it should be. Then there's not it's not really maintenance anymore. It's just like no one I need my to do this. I do this other thing and more of a. Two way road. The dogs learning how to behave and the humans learning how to behave and when you make that sting sort of Mary together like you said Glen now, it's it does fall into place better. And it's it's more natural to the dog. And in my opinion requires less maintenance, but also like less pressure on the dog. We don't have this expectation for the dog that they have to keep up this like stupor, sharp almost competitive level Bedie's or there's going to be some form of correction as opposing say down. Maybe I need to bend over and point to the ground a little bit like who cares? Like big deal. You had to point to the ground is at the end of the world. This becomes a miserable lifestyle for both the owner and the dog eve that high standard that we feel is a practicality in the dogs law Nivea going to be maintained by them. The main what we're basically doing is corrupting the relationship between the owner and the dog because if they say the dough can do it, but they feel that they can't do it. Then I feel a sense of file Lia, which then starts to fall back on the dog that they feel frustrated about the presence of the dough. Because the dog doesn't actually know like a fragmented communication and not in parallel with each other anymore. And that's one of the problems that I full sole quite some time ago is that the way that I would try and dog as impractical to the average family who just wants a dog like you said tall it to behave and just develop a language that is suitable in home. And that that sort of thing is when people come to the door and not jumping up and jumping on the visit is like learning the place is. Come popularize with staying on the bed. And that's what I think anyone who's doing board and train all who's working with clients. This message that we've just been talking about. I'm just I'm relaying all of this in my head right now and thinking this is so important the new and up and coming trainers people who are listening to these really getting involved in working with clients going out and doing home consult, boarding and training cetera. Is you will have a standard you will develop a stand in the belief of what's important for you. But you've also work in the realm of the general public as well, look what they want what they need what they desire because ultimately what we're trying to do is prevent that dog from being kicked out of the home and show file away to that is like I said, if you fragment the communication and the relationship between the owner and the dog that's fos tracking the dog into being putting into welfare awareness and just to piggyback on that for a minute to because I think, you know, I remember I used to do board trains during the goal. Home lesson when I'm doing obedience. I would actually tell people like, you know, don't move your body just say the word, and then if the dog doesn't do it like follow through with at least pressure or follow through with the remote collar, and the part of that that I think is really missing like you said, you know, we have to be thinking about what is the person really want need desire. But what about the dog dog really want need desire, and when we're teaching that style to the owner there is benefit the dog has to learn our language, right? But what's missing completely from that construct is the owner learning how to speak in a language that the dog nationally understand how to speak the dog's language, we know at this point that dogs have evolved to be able to intrinsically read certain human cues, right? They've done so much so much research on this dogs intrinsically being able to follow body language gestures facial structure micro gestures with our faces. Right. Are breathing patterns are movement and all this without any training. This is just innate dogs have evolved alongside them for. You know, forty thousand or more years yet for so long. And I think so many trainers today aren't teaching how to speak that language. It's a language that is shared by human and dog it's natural to humans and natural to doll and the competitive style while again, I do all of it. And I think it has its place. It's because more stand the human language and good competitor has to of course, be able to listen to the dog. Right. They have to be listening. They have to understand the dog language, but when it comes to like. The average client we need to also teach them how to just speak the dog's natural tongue communicate to the dog in a way that doesn't require stimulus response conditioning. And when they learned that and they started doing that habitually, no maintenance required. And now you have a relationship where they're speaking common language. That's that's natural to both of them. Make sense. Absolutely totally. I think something that is worth mentioning and they soon of room as well. As a lot of the times people who contact your dog China. Ceased all getting training training done. It's because maybe they doggies high a Dr than they were expecting that that can be tricky for that kind of thing. And then having too much bady we've like taught formally in the home can be a real problem because then is the expectation of reinforcement, and you got that draw draw dog that loves out to do the abeyance because it means that he can bring the reinforcement. And so definitely I gray lactate my dog, for example, ROY these is a good example to talk about what we're talking about people using is I have no Abadie of my dog in the house because I don't want him to have any expectation of reinforcement in the house. I never play ball with him in the house. I never fade him in the house. No high-value reinforces other than the he's presence. We've people know his Mallon wa he wants to spend Tommy people. He's very social like that you'll houses a chill ebbs on. Yeah. That's right. And so the only reinforcer I use ease. He's he gets the proxima. To us and the only punishment. I use these gets put out so and doesn't get that proximity. And therefore don't ask would never try it. But I doubt that my dog would understand the context of doing any of his behaviors in the house. If I told him sit down stand, he'll whatever I would never do that. Because then that would bring an expectation of a reward, but he knows how to chill out which is what most people want. They just wanna dog and read the play. He'll get off the catch. If I tell him to get off you're gonna have your late from it some way. Yeah. But what what what's overlooked? There is a like he would be unbearable to live within because he'd be pushing your all the time. Like, you know, when I my reward. Let's something when I get him out on the field at is driving. You let's go let's go he'll bought me. If I don't have a toy something with me. It'd be like what what did we come here for we doing, and I don't want that behavior leaking into the house? And I think definitely for show this and people who, you know, training in Dr only to scarily us. That term and therefore you have a dog bit Kant. Juliet in your presence doesn't understand you know, you tell you to go to bed any flaws to his bed with an expectation of bursting off of the bed into tug game or something. So it's fun to teach those things in a way that like you have to do it motivational, but you have to like manage the dogs expectations in the environments where you want them to have a low expectation. That's a tricky one. But I think it's worth bring up at that point. While think we talked about this just briefly before we started recording as well. I think one thing for anybody listening who's not as for millier the stuff that you're describing with your dog about how you know, he's he's really driving you on the field. And you don't want that expectation house. I mean, that's also very specific to the style that you train in. Yes. Which is again, primarily for competitive purposes. I remember when you guys interviewed bar there was a quote that stood out to me because it's some that I recognize early on when I'm. Bart. But he said, you know, with my style of training with my system, you have to be careful because you can create a dog that's too strong, and you can create a dog. That's uncontrollable. Yes. And so I think when we look at how we are using reinforcement not just the fact that we are using it. But how we are using it. We can we can create problems for ourselves. And I think that's another realm. Also where obedience can get us into trouble. Sometimes when it comes to behavior because I think a lot of times people like the average pet dog person, perhaps not necessarily you. Guys, the pet dog person doesn't understand. What they're building in the way that they're using reinforcement whether it's playing certain games of the dog or even just the way that they're using food. And I also think there's a bit of a myth that to be successful with reward based training and shaping that the dog has to be really revved up. There are people out there that that do really beautiful work to a pretty good level of reliability with with just rewards that have really calm dogs. If you look at there's a woman named Emily lar- lem who lives in a station, those in California. Now, she's got a YouTube channel called ky-ko pop. And I followed him for years for work. She's an extraordinarily talented quicker trainer and her dogs. Are extremely extremely well mannered and they're hallways. Calm even in the presence of rewards. And I've spoken to her. She's actually very nice woman. And we've had some really nice conversations and she really emphasize. In the early stages of her training. It's all about capturing different levels of arousal, and she actually focuses on capturing calmness and reinforcing calmness. And the reinforcement being delivered in such a way that it maintains calmness, and she's very picky about you know, she might use one type of reinforcer for this kind of dog. But a different type of this kind of dog and how she delivers it, but she's extremely extremely focused on arousal throughout everything that she's doing and making sure that she's not reinforcing levels of arousal that are going to become problematic for what she wants out of her dogs. Right. Because that's what you want out of your dog is something very different than what what she wants out of her. And she does really beautiful work. You know? So I do think you can have an expectation of reinforcement without necessarily creating an intense on, but for your purposes like, for instance, like my dog's main job, my melon wa his main job is helping me socialize other dogs. Right. So that might be a little bit counter. Productive with if I was going to try to build him off to be like a top of the podium kind of dog. And when he first met barbell, and it wasn't my first time working with bar. But it was it was the first time when I had logo and Barr met him. He said your dog is too polite. And he was giving me a hard time about it. And then it was the first time that and I really had an in depth conversation. So we were sitting together at lunch, and he was learning more about what I do. And he came up to me afterwards that day, and he said, you know, I have to apologize to you like I was wrong. Your dog is perfect for what you do, you know? But he thought because I don't compete even at that time. I was I was not in a competitive I was done doing that kind of stuff. But I still was fascinated learning bar does. But I was one of the only people there Who Wasn't There with the main goal of making their dog, a strong competitor. And so he didn't know that. And so he's looking at my dog on wiser dog, so polite, but for me it was because that's what he needs to do for me. NT story taller that make spot a more impressive trying to hearing that story. Like the point that he identified and apologize to you at that point just goes to show that he's paying more attention. It's not just about it's got to be moist all my way, he actually he actually identified looked at the application for what you'll dog means to your life and you'll business cetera. That's what makes a great China that twin you starts to surpass the realm of being good and you're actually entering into greatness. When you're looking at the overall picture and paying distinct attention to that. On that had very similar coma. We've bought many times. And I think the core of that whole NATO system ease to reward attitude of behavior attitude first, and then behind behind your second, and that the woods so that someone can correct me. But I think that's the most important thing. Yeah, attitude is what you would attitude that you want to say moral. So if like this woman with the Keiko pop south lucky, she's rewarding attitude the calmness that she wants to say morals, and all I would the pushiness demanding because that's what I want to say, I'm constantly telling people, especially poppies about two one of hydro law ethics wants to know about making tough. And that's what I'm gonna talk about a lot. He's where just talk about rewarding attitude of behavior. I don't particularly care, especially what the dog does a more concerned about how he feels about what he's doing because then using those feelings and emotions can shape what he does. But it's location attitude too. Yet, totally. And it's you know, you look at use of site NATO. It depends on how you want to use. It you look at jasmine sto Genta is perfectly flattened out as an assistance dog. And this is a dog who did Jay's tests that Jace autistic going one hundred percent is totally capable of all of those social tasks can be very flat and calm all the time. But can also be brought to action and we'll play a good game Atoglas play around, you know, two main. She she's got very flashy obedience when the time is ROY. But can totally relax, and that's through NATO that capturing that. And then putting it on command putting it on cue. This is what I wanna see now. And when the seasons dog and very easy because they've got the best on the best comes off. You get to be a lunatic. Best on you. Go to go to relax, usual Kulla. Exactly. But it's not it's not that it was taught through pressure like these vessels on and you just recross you. It's just that win. Invest is on the attitude that gets reinforced these lowest out of razzle application edited. Yeah. Yes. There's no reason that that Naple couldn't be compatible with reinforcing a lower state of arousal. Which is basically I think what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. It's just that most of the people who were that into it. And again to spend the money to go to the events and learn from Baden that kind of thing because people most of the people in my experience have ninety percent they just after that loss. Ten percent. They are looking for that competitive edge looking for that loss to make them better than go out. They try and with and that's that's the type of person that attracts does. Does it Cohen into Disney students Facebook group, a very one of the best ones you could be. But there's a common joking there all the time that you have to leave with the monster. You create. People citing that to you get because of the way the shaping works. We some of us ended up we allot of what you might call. Oh, like the residue from extinction by behaviors like dogs that Bach in behind because they just push them to the point of frustration so much that the Buckeye median want it. You were water the attitude in stock with the Bach like that can happen to people sometimes, and then we discuss strategies to get rid of that sort of thing. But it's always that's what we talk about his go to leave with that. You create your like you've you've created these powerful dog by choice. Now, you've got the credibly baffled dog. What are you gonna do with him? I think that's what people have to be really mindful of because there are a lot of pet dog trainers that like like for me. It took me a few years to understand what like 'cause I I haven't studied with Bart as much as you guys have. But I did a decent amount of spending time with him early in my career, and it took me a while to figure out. Okay. Where can I use this? But we're is it not healthy in what I do with the average dog owner because we're then taking that right? Like that teaching. Dog to push and to drive and to make you work, and then teaching that to like Sally who works two jobs and has kids and like lives in a call to sack and just got a German shepherd because she always had one as a kid like that's probably not the best approach. You wanna take for that person? Even though the obedience is going to go great. You know, you're going to end up creating behavior problems through your obedience training. Right. And I think that's where we have to make sure we're aware of what we're doing in the process of obedience because again, it depending on how you're doing it obedience could be part of your problem could be it could be part of the problem. But there's also like I remember many years ago. And this was this was back when I was still spending time with Bart on an off when he was in town for seminars and stuff, and I had a client who had a little French bulldog that they got from a puppy mill. And so there is just husband and wife in the house, really nice large house, and this dog was terrified of the husband totally fine with the wife's the wife had taught. A little tricks and stuff, but this dog wouldn't even eat if the husband was in the house. So I said, okay. Your first homework is you put the food down for five minutes. Get the dog on a feeding schedule k that's going to okay now deaf. I've minutes only happens when the husband's in a house, but for right now foods on the first floor. He's on the second floor. So not even on the same floor of the house. They came back the next week. It said it didn't work. And I said, what do you mean? It didn't work said. Well, the dog didn't eat, and I was like, well, how long did you wait a day and a half. I was like listen if the dog's not eating by the third day, call me next week to come in and go it worked said when did it start day three the dog started eating? Okay. Perfect. So now the dog only eats when the Hudson's on the floor and then only in the same room and then only each within five feet and then only each from the husband's hand. And then once it was eating from the husband's hand the dog Ardy learned a bunch of tricks. I said okay now the husband's carrying food around in a pouch all day. That's the only the dog gets. And now the dog has to push the husband the dog has to has to nudge, the husband to work, whatever barks does CYP pretty. He tries to high five those tricks. It doesn't matter but the dog has to make an effort to make this large animal reach in the pocket and provide food and once that that dog learned that it could control this much larger animal everything changed. And so that was an example, we're using the more traditional framework of Neo was extremely constructive for that family within a I mean, really only maybe it was maybe three or four weeks overall that dog was running up to the husband and like throwing every trick it new out trying to get this guy to reach in the pocket and provide some food for them. And you know, so there's you just have to know what's behind the technique. What are the emotional and psychological aspects of what you're doing beyond? Just the sit down stay, you know, what I mean. That's a that's a classic nape apply explained. And it's so powerful. And I wish that more people could stick through it like feel. Oh, I'm holding the food. There is no threat with threes so far removed. You've got the dog right on the edge of the threshold you go to get through that. And then when you do. Important. I think we point out like how powerful that dog named feels. It's not just like the whole dichotomy changes where it's not like, I'm not I'm not from being scared. Most people in like all he tolerates accepts that go. I it's like now to the point where he's like, I push you control you on on make you give me things. And for that little doggy in his mind has just you know, he's going to lead such a happy more confident life, and this spillover will go to so many other places. It's not like that's gonna make him feel a wife forever. But, you know, exactly as you say do that with a powerful German shepherd and you go to problem, right? Big big problem. But that's where it comes in. Having the skill to say, okay. This is what's going to fit for you. And he says this is the physicality of these doggy means we can make him powerful these Brian and not have any issues from that. Hey, one thing I wanted to ask you about a few things for it online. You go to Colo out. What I do. Yeah. Yeah. That was I'm happy that it's finally out because that's a lot of time on that. So it was a big relief to finally get it done because I've seen promos stuff for that. Maybe twelve months ago. So that's been a longtime aching right? Yeah. So it's called mastering remote, collar and. Yeah, we started the process of planning it basically this time last year. And what I knew I wanted to do was film live workshop footage because I wanted to show like the real stuff not like me with a dog that I know is going to demonstrate it. Well, so we filmed to five day workshops, eighty hours of footage. We filmed the first one we thought we would just make it off of the first one. And I was like, you know, what this is good. We went through all the footage. This is good. But we've got this other workshop coming up less just film it to see what we have so went and and refilled or through the footage, and then combined everything so as a tremendous amount of planning, and then editing down because I wanted to find specific examples of things. With a variety of different dogs and handlers that were at different skill levels. So it came out really good. I'm really happy with how came out feedbacks been great. Which is always kind of a scary thing when you were these like hit hit send and but the feedbacks been really good. I'm very proud of it. Of course, head of they find that. Yes. That's my new site. Consider the dog, which is considered the dog dot com. It's a great site. We were just hosting a lot of instructional video content on there now for myself and other trainers, my idea would that site initially was to make it almost as close to like an open source platform where I can bring out other trainers, and they can do whatever they want to. So they can make their own content. It doesn't have to be like we go out and produce it for them. Which of course, we can do and we're going to do for some people. But also that if like me people just like producing their own stuff and editing it and so they have more creative control. We just wanted to provide a platform for that. So it's become this really cool community kinda grew into two in different directions that I initially anticipated and got much more successful than I thought it would kind of right off the gate, so yeah. Consider the dog dot com. Kind of where you find pretty much all of my new content. These days remember while ago? You put on Facebook you'll. Looking like a force free content creator that you wanted to do some stuff with is that related to that that did that eventually. Yes. So that's that was I really was hoping I want to be able to have. So the original goal of this website was for it to be a resource for the average dog owner right that they can just go and they've got basically it's like curated information said of the massive YouTube or you don't know what you're getting legit. But I also wanted to make sure that people had options to find a way to train that worked for them that worked for who they are and their lifestyle. And so I wanted to make sure that we had the broad range of methodologies out there. And I did find some trainers that were. Interested that were more on the fourth free. And I think for you know, there's a lot of trainers that I reached out to that. We're yet to get content up from I think for a lot of people. It's time thing we're all running their own businesses. I'm fortunate. My businesses at a place where I actually have a photo and video person on staff little bit easier for me. But yeah, I think I think time wise, it's a tough thing for people. But I do hope to get I really hope to find some some totally free people that are that are willing to be a part of this project because that's kind of what it is. It's like, hey, this is not one methods better than the other is find the right thing for you and your dog and your situation we wanna provide options for people and we're actually building smartphone apps coming up. So that'll be a new thing. So we'll have an app that people can download on their phone, and then we're going to build some really like simple like, you know, like when you go to the gym, and you see people working out, and they like they opened up they watch video that's like one minute. And then they just do the technique. And then they watch the one we're going to build some really simple courses. That are like that that are for average dog owner beginner people that they can download this app. And basically they can sit there with their phone watch a one minute. Video apply the technique. Okay. What step to watch one video apply the technique, and basically almost like they're in a group class or a private lesson through their smartphone. A lock that. Yeah. That's cool in that will be starting from a blank slate problem solving mostly. No, we're gonna start with starting from a blank slate. So we have a lot of problems solving stuff on there. One thing. I like about the platform as for me problem solvings hard to put into a course because it's just so deep you have to understand dogs in general. So what I've been doing a lot of gear is putting a lot of like behind the scenes footage. I've just been having somebody fill me like in behavior consultations, and we'll kind of give rid of the excess and then we'll just upload it, and we'll break into part. So it's easy to kind of navigating it through little fifteen minute segments or whatnot. Just allow people to see like I've put up I think three different resource guarding case studies in the past couple of months and each one of them was tackled in a slightly different way. So rather than put up like, here's how to fix resource guarding. It's like, no, here's like here's a bunch of different people in dogs where the resource guarding manifest itself and slightly different ways. And we approach it in slightly different ways. And so for me, that's that's kind of the more. Real world way to approach problem solving is like people need to learn to understand dogs. And so we're trying to put out a lot of bite sized content. That's why we have a membership available on the site. It's a monthly membership. So people can just be part of it. And we're just throwing content every week. So right now, the bigger courses are more like topic based off, but we're going to start with with really basic, basic just obedient stuff. We already filmed a, puppy course. We just have to fill like some of the lecture components. We already filmed a new video. That's like if not even like, it's it's called five things. Everybody should do with the puppy. And so it just talks about how to socialize your document Firemen's how to get comfortable in the crate how to get them used to veterinary handling so get them used to having their years and your pause touched. We just go through things that like puppy owners should be doing that are really easy to do. And it's just a really simple video, but we really are trying to target like the millions of you know, Joe schmo dog owners out there yet are just looking for quality information. That's a hard target to to heat. I think I don't know if spoken to you bad, but I have sort of not dissimilar it's online poppy rising tutorial which spring on. It's hood of a twelve months, and it's twenty five videos and h few minutes long, and it's like like these through that. And you see who grow up films over twelve months, and but those people who just the average yoga who's getting a new dog. They're hot person, it's market to like, I would say people who've bought my video series are can probably seventy percent of them dog China's training enthusiasts already who probably watched it and went like, oh, that's interesting. That's good content. But didn't because it's not marketed to them a day, the people that find it what I what I had such a it's really annoying because like I'm confident that content, and I'm sure yours is gonna be fantastic as well. But it's the idea of like, how do I get into people's hands? How do I get these people before they have a problem because is that? Reactive not pro. And that's all right. Yes. The issue is that they waiting for something to go wrong before they contact the trying to wear as if we got into the haid truly before all this happened. I mean off of it would be on issue for them and the right of rescue dogs or welfare dogs dogs on the youth. Anais Yalies would be significantly reduced that soy, it's exciting that you're doing because the more of that top of the bed because more. More. Into people's hands to get that idea to people like, hey, you've got this little dog blank slate do stock well and never spend your few box on you you'll membership monthly membership. But whatever and never ever talked to a dog China's along as you leave so long as you don't want to do something extraordinary with dog. If you just wanna happy little dog that you follow these program, and you'll never have to engage us as of adult China, and you know, that prevention is better than the KUA and much much cheaper. Yeah. And that's why I wanted to make it more of a community than like dabble with the idea of just having my own streaming site for like just my content, but that just didn't really appeal to me. I really I just figured this was the much better project. If it was a community of people that all had a stake in it. And that's kind of what we're trying to create is to bring more and more people on board that are part of this. So that it's like a central hub. It's kinda like back in the day. If you were in New York City, like all there was a government district, you know, and then there's like all the clothing shops are in one area. So if you're looking for close to go there, so we're kind of trying to do the same thing bring enough resources into one site, and that, of course, gives us a bigger budget. It makes us a larger company that we can do a better job of getting our face in front of the average person and people don't have to choose. Well, do I sign into this person's thing or this person's thing or this person saying, no, we just one place you can have access? To abroad variety of different well, respected trainers. Yeah. We need to talk to the pay about doing something similar in recognizing actual international people as well. You know what I mean? I do. I'm free, man. Now, though point whingeing to you don't even on board any I'm like, I'm I'm I did my term I'm done. So you'll be in Colorado. This you sitting in the sitting in the crowd. Yeah. Actually be able to socialize and get drunk and get up to mischief that she doesn't have to keep you top hat and tails on. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. It's actually my first conference ever not being on the board. Oh well. Went to my first year on the board of directors. So it'll be the first time that I get to experience a conference as a, you know, somebody without responsibilities. We're going to be there. We're definitely going to be in the whole kit and caboodle, and we're going to try and everybody, and we're going to just try and do that between troops to whatever. The replacement Tiki bars in Colorado. Yeah. Pets too late. Become hanging around my neck. Mm Colorado probably has a different drink foamy. Maybe drinking old-fashioned Sooners. Collins tall. Thanks coming on, man. It's been a blast guys. I appreciate it. It's been really appreciate it. There's a lot of great information. As I said before I think that a lot of the owners out there who involved in a lot of these activities going to people's homes, Borden, try and incite fold. This is a great episode to listen to you know, we talk about Naple a lot. We talk about a lot of different stall training a lot. But the reality is he's whatever I mean. I'm a big fan of saying us what works in any application to get the MRI true. I think that's the biggest takeaway thing from a lot of these episodes anytime people listening to tease, and we do have people contacting which pet night had a message last night from a guy that's over New Zealand the moment training dogs, but that's one of many messages, and I guess they an application everybody with I've got to put that application into play a think of you listening to that. And that you take home message than you. And that's really important thing. Is there? All right. Hey, one last time what's that website again? And how do you consider the dog dot com? That's where to find me these days. Okay. Perfect. All right. Well, that's it for another episode of the paradigm as always if you lock what he he? Locked right shit. Subscribe tell a friend doing that helps us getting contact with more people if you want to support the show the best way to do that ease voyage patron three bucks a month. Get you an extra ten bucks a month. Get you access to some live streaming, and we working on more and different content for them playing with petro, and more and more and realizing quantum pal platform we can release stuff to you through that. If you wanna get in contact with us, this why do that ease voi- Email now Sandison amount that we have info at the canine paradigm dot com, or you can go school and he on Facebook. That's it. Glenn music.

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Episode 63: The Flow state

The Canine Paradigm

1:23:26 hr | 2 years ago

Episode 63: The Flow state

"Wants happening in the canine industry for all the latest news views and expert opinions stay right here for the canine paradigm. You'll hear from industry leaders experts doyennes of the industry learned colleagues movers and shakers and the odd. Randy guest. Get the latest insights and expert advice from both here and abroad from the people in the non now here your hosts Glenn cook and Pat steward, and I'm lofty Fulton, and I'm outta here. Hey, Pat has all Jason I hear he's doing fantastic. In fact, he just keeps selling so much gay to L loyal listeners at such remarkable process. What's he got? He's got. Good question. Always go to everything bowls togs leashes don't think bowls and tug should be said in the same sentence. Will we just did meals? That's what Jason's pumping out like hope mills, Paul. I Pol height shift night nightshift mills. Yeah. He's got them. All. Episode. Yeah. On patriot. And so a lot of people learning about how to use the mill and getting them from Jason J sleds now, sleds and parachute. So Sarah, sure, you tested with remnants shirt. I can confirm it in flight. I know he still doesn't have a website. So if you'd like to buy something from Jason could be a home spring autumn, you could get that from Jason, but you have to do it through Facebook. And in order to do that you have to hit to on's week dog quip, which is heavy spell that A N Z W A say kite on Zwick on we don't quit. Welcome back to the canine paradigm. I'm your host Glenn cook. And join in studios, my regular co host pets do it. Hello, john. Good. Are you? All right. Just right. Just right. Okay. Okay. That's good. We should tell them about the pedal and thing. Yeah. We should. So something horrible happened yet. We didn't kill Nolan nine. We did and Coney. Yeah. Patent coney. We we just happened across them organized an interview with the Mona stray went into the hotel habit. Oh, good. Go back to the start until the like the interesting story about how it will happen. Oh, we'll Glenn message Pat asking hey, can we link up a time to have a chat sometime and gave him the time zone. We were in to try and organize it. And he goes funny. You say that because actually in that Tom zone. Rodney how was actually. Didn't he I'm on holiday mistrial? So we will right. So go to Laghi together. Zoomed in story there for three hours or something had this amazing chat with Pat and his Coney though, both nominal is. And then it didn't record or the fall was corrupted. We record it just did the fall year upon saving a main heard about these horror stories in other podcasting groups way people have lost entire shows and not sorta scoffed and that hasn't happened to us and on a really all the podcast important, but just on one that we made a lot of effort to Mike happen. Like packed up the whole studio, gay travelled out they fitted retrofitted in the hotel room set with them. They made time for his late at night had a great interview with them really good introduction set down and really the Arjun stories save the fall time went to edit it, and it would not been and is fully corrupted, and it can't be saved. So tried everything. Got on the forum spoken, a papal pulling. I haven't been hey to pull out, but pets pulling his hair out. He's trying to match its bid devastating because it was really getting. I guess we have the experience of having had that chat. We wait. I do. But it was it's just a bummer that we can't put it down chair. I feel bad about taking up fair amount of time as well Fano output. But I guess we'll organize to get him on again voice squad. We have we've spoken to him. We've let him know what happened and pets a conscious gentlemen. So he was disappointed for us that we lost material and has agreed to come back on the shores. Devastated is it's truly devastating because it was a was a genuine Arjun story straight from. He's Matthew Aries. And it was really fantastic to hia hail involved is in training. And well, look to be honest. Once we getting back on we're going to recreate that the best we can. So you can hear what he's done in a very very long spanning career since nineteen seventy five that he first break waves and in training dogs. And it really is like I say in pet is mentioned as well to very fascinating long leave story. That's well, truly not either yet. Yeah. It's interesting. You know, I guess we'll talk about it with him. Again. But I just are your bad. How contrived at uncles. You have to pretend that we talking for the first time we'll we'll have to find a way to to to bring back that magic. But if you haven't been following, Pat, everything that we do today's Dhotran trans, you know, we're standing on the shoulders of giants all the things that we think just common knowledge someone had to invent that stuff barred from somebody's diligence someone had did not that out in the first place. And if you're doing any detection work is a very good chance that you channeling pet Nolan. Yeah. The person who told you taught someone told someone told someone and it goes back to pet Nolan. Actually, I'm pretty sure I understand. Now, why the fall corrupted too many pets in the room to pets Dan on pats show that too much Pat magic show that's a contributing factor. But anyway, yeah. So that happened. So very devastated. Yeah. We are way. Devastated would just gonna look into Saif guiding measures that we don't have that happen in. We're looking into. Maybe you pay your own folks are about the boss, and you mixing board new board that has a backup recorder building to it has Estee cod on dick. So you can double down on your recording capability so you can record to cod and also back it up on the pace as well. And that way, we will Mike show that we definitely don't if you lose it one way we want losing another way. So. Yeah. Bringing some redundancy. Yeah. So yeah, thank you patriot for being able to supplies with the opportunity to do those things. Yeah. I know we thank you a lot. But we really do. Appreciate it because you guys crowdfunding the kinda paradigm. Yeah. And helping to as we said many times before you helping us to pick up advances add things to the studio to help out jobs. Get up being able to travel at the say. People doing my shows and so forth that is coming from your good crisis. Yeah. Always big. Thanks. What are we talking them today? Subject since we're not doing the pet Nolan interview and koneohe should end Connie since we haven't got that interview to put on what we want to talk about. And this was a one we had in the pipelines. Anyway, is we're gonna talk about a subject called the flow state of training. This is a topic that I saw on the Joe Rogan showed discussed between a personal trying to call for us a hobby himself, Gerald we're talking about it. And it's a common thing that many trainers use in different stalls of training and people use it to business related thing. It's will business related training. Stall a lot of people in martial arts bay JJ's Tetra use it in this stall dog trying to use it without actually knowing if they know the talking about in the know what they're doing and fundamentally what the flow state is. You've got a basically L shape graph. And we're. Gonna put this up on the website. So what we do is the ascending top to bottom line psychosis. Yes, the access that's good points. The exits the top to bottom axis, which goes from ground to ceiling. We talk about task and difficulty in that. And then on the floor the X across the floor K going from left, right? We've got skills. So you've got low to high on both then from there. We've got what we call flow state, which is an arrow to forty five degree excess. But then we got the flow state. Basically what happens in that flow state is this is way you're going to find that you're in the best training state. When you're doing anything, you yourself personally or you dog if you have anything outside on the bottom side of that. So it starts angle down to the bottom. You get boredom. Okay. Whereas we start to go on the top side of that. I've you stop breaching the flow state from the top side of. You get anxiety and frustration. I k so the best way that I heard for us in Rogan talking about Joe Rogan talking about this principle is you know, when you're in a flow state of anything that you doing is when time same's to be Linnea like it seems like you've just lost track of time. But you haven't lost track of time. You're in your most productive state during that time, but it doesn't feel like you're bored. All like thinking yourself. This is a waste of time. It seems like you get to the end of the session. Wow. What happened really quickly? And I know that these Bain journeys pain on fragments Ike where head conversations with people all been listening to a musical track or something like that. And something that like, let's say for example, two to three hour journey and you get to the end of the journey and think well that went really quickly. That's because your brain is in. Basically what happens is your brain is in flow state at that point in time. It's because you're enjoying yourself. It's another way for saying. You're in the moment the important thing about these in the. The dog training aspect of things is this needs to be a symbiotic relationship between you and your dog. Okay. So it needs to be important for you. It needs to be mostly important for the dog. I k- the dog needs to really in that flow, stating training to get the best or to intake the most uptake of training. I to be in the best out of mind, if the dog's not in this state of mind and the dog's not getting it this way, we stop breaching into this frustration ralway the dog becomes anxious at training, and we don't making sense to anything sock working with a young child. If you don't capture the interest, they stopped becoming bored and restless and frustrated about what's going on there as well. I'm sure you know, about that with your young fellow. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. It's a tricky one. What I guess the principal reality on it is when we're looking at things like we talked about extinction training law and this lapse on we overlap a lot of concepts that we're talking about. But it's important to make sure that we are overlapping one principal on top of another. Because again, talking about symbiosis they have these relationships where they bond and a very relative and reliable to what we're doing in dog training formats, so let's say, for example, we have extinction bursts. The flow state is not dissimilar to what I call and what many people in the industry. Call the stress threshold. It's something all species that conscientious or conscious I should say. Okay. And that is is when you start to do anything like so when you start to think about things and you start to act on those thoughts after period of time. The work will start to increase the levels of stress that you feeling stress normal. We've talked about this on the show many times before as well stresses a normal precursor in life. You have to experienced race little stress were over long. Periods of time helps you be able to handle a lot more stress in productivity and things that you're doing normal day to day life. However, if you incur too much dress like everything there is a bubble. There's a wall. Okay. And the problem with that wall is when you go over the top of it. It's a fast sent down. So something that you can handle something you're K with something. Your mind is quite comfortable with concern become very uncomfortable to a point of that. You just wanna basically bought what you're doing? So you mind and body will basically shut down. So now, I don't want any of these anymore. This is too much stress too much work too much intensity at this point in time. And then you'll find that something that starts in a state of being pitted. Eve will soon become something that is highly. Yeah. Yeah. I guess it's. It's a case of you need an a man of success. Right. And so if you well, are you talking about it becoming too difficult to complex skill or task or much of it can be anything? It can be. It can be the state. It's it's not about whether it's too intense too much. It's about how you feel about. Yeah. Yeah. And that's you know, there's a lot of talk about especially in this day and age about how people feel about things, for example. Let's talk about just slightly off topic. But let's talk about the concept of salt. Okay. So the first time I ever learned properly. What assault is assault actually begins in the mind of the other person? So you feel that you've been assaulted by somebody is a good chance that you possibly have depends on what kind of snowflake. You are of course. But there's a lot of people who especially when you're involved in any type of security law enforcement military or anything that when you're dealing with somebody. They becomes. Stage where it might start as a conversation. But as soon as you start leaning in pressuring that person, it's not a conversation anymore. It becomes a point of way. You're probably starting to assault that person like it's starting to become esscalation. So it's the same thing in work related fields. Is that you might feel a little pressure. Okay. So the analogy I usually use people when we're talking about work related issues. For example, you might be at your desk and your boss comes in put several falls on the essences on these done by the die. So you open the falls have a look through them. And you think yeah. That's usually chief can knock them at lunchtime. And then he's pay comes in doubles that up. And then you look at that guy. Hyping wouldn't get like a full whack of die work, but I can do that can knock this out tonight. And the marketing director comes in and the nice deck another bunch of falls on their anything. Snow? Why can get these out today? And then somebody else comes in. And then I double up again. So. Over sudden, you've gone from something that you knew you could easily smash out. Then something you knew that you could do by the end of the day to something that you know, is knowledgeable to be done by the day. And then it escalates to a point where you becoming highly anxious about the fact that you've been given a deadline priority that you know, that you you well and truly incapable of shaving right there. And then that's way, your stress threshold peaks case, a you've gone over peak day and at that point in time. That's why people just become frustrated people might do a range of different things. I everyone handles the differently all Spacey's handle it differently as well. So some people might rage, they might cry. They might get up and walk around. They might just sit there and stare blankly. They might start the work and try and get their way through it. All people have a different way of doing it. And so two dogs. I have very different approach to how they actually perform skills in those situations some dogs, you can say the levels of anxiety with I just have shut down in behind. Vye some dogs might rebel against the owner. Then you get start getting like forms of aggression starting to happen. I because they basically rebutting what you'll doing these. I award on wanna auto any part of this don't like it. I don't wanna be out of here. So people have encounted forms of onset aggression over pushing the dog to that again. That's a it's a stall of dog that might actually do that. Yeah. So I wouldn't say that Remmy would do that. I mean, he might shutdowns. I hop up doing it. And just go into another state of mind where he just goes to his own happy place and goes, well, I'm just gonna go choice birds. Chase birds. Yeah. Yeah. I guess everybody. Everything's sort of reacts differently. Can think about saving your example of the the too much foiling? I think a lot of people put themselves into displacement behaviors at that point. I think that's some in common that a lot of people can probably relate to themselves, especially say, you get an Email. That's going to be hard to answer from Klein or whatever slowed easy to check Facebook than than. Reported that mental. So you just sort of find at busy work Earls think dogs do that all the time. A lot of people might not pick up on it. So, you know, if your in your training, and the training is too difficult to stress fool the dog might just that doing something else in order to that's them checking Facebook instead of replying to the mail. Yeah. Usually what we call that as a displacement state. And a displacement state is identifiable like you said where they go into a different like they start phasing out of the work. And you might see that and often do whether dole will start sniffing the air or the ground. Suddenly like it will be a random like trailing on something. But they're actually doing nothing. They're just trying to find a way to relieve the stress that they feeling. Yeah. So they kind of stock in a bit of a rut at that point in time. Yeah. And these are things that as trainers we need to identify quickly because we need to realize when we've over cooked chicken. Yeah. Well, sniffing is the big one will do grad. You say this all the time, especially for myself explaining me is quite a lot to clients who say my book me for an. Our right and wanna work that for an hour, which is never good. I, you know, I always try to explain to people. Hey, this is for you. You will improve the session we will explain concepts and you'll get ID's, but actually Lockley yolk will not benefit from this session because we're gonna go to long things that we're doing he is too much, and I try and break it up and let the dog, you know, just through the sessions, but people want to do too much all the time. And if they've only got that opportunity to go through these different things, I'm what except at that point on Cy. Okay. As long as you're away, this is actually count the behaviors are not gonna improve it you you can practice in front of me and get some repetitions for you. And we can improve you. But this will not improve the dog. And when you do that in session with the people will often find is displacement sniffing and people will be like, oh, he's really interested in. What is over there? I'm like he's not really that interested in what's over there. Not interested in being here. And that's when I'm always Toronto people like Don luck, we shouldn't do anymore. This is an it feels like you're reinforcing that sniffing. But you are kinda showing the dog if you get into that state everything stops yet. It's an doubt behavior, which isn't necessarily that bad. It's not it can be terrible. But it can also be a way of sort of rating your dog and understanding that when you see you go into that say like he's opting out from the training session. Yep. It's an interesting one that I think as a lot of balance China's tend not to pay a lot of attention to a dog that chooses to opt out to the training session because I had the capacity to say, well, actually, no, you can't opt out, and I can bring you back for pressure. But maybe in the work, that's fun. And you need to have done that in the training to be able to do it in the work, but you really should identify those moments when they come along way. Okay. We've gone over threshold and threshold just could be too many risks of the same thing. It's not necessarily that. I it could be too many reps of that going. Well, the dog. Hamble border, these I'm sick of this and day goes into that displacement behavior and being out of read that and go, okay, he's done. That's not win. Good Chinese going to happen. That's only the only bad trains going to happen. And then at that point if you haven't known, reinforcing nocco, or if you have a signal that indicates the dog to work is over you might give that thinking that you'll like well fuck you like the session sessions, but you're actually reinforcing the dog, then because the session ends, and that's what he wanted to have. You wanted some way out of it. Yeah. So it's a really tricky thing too. It's a really tricky situation to find so Finn. And there isn't a good way to finish it. I don't think there isn't like there isn't a blanket where we can say. Okay. Well, if you goes into that displacement, you should stop. If you go into that displacement. That's him opting out there for you. So hey, you don't have to the Boston you come back into the work. There isn't a raw answer for that. Neither of those correct. All the time. Depends on where you're at with the dog with a level of training, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. There's a million different facets. The right thing to do is not get to that point. I'm going to go back to that and second, but for people who having a little trouble most people, wouldn't but for people who have young children of head young children before the similarity between the two of them. He's win young children. Just go dead white on the floor refused. Do anything else? Dave just going into a bit of a shutdown state where they're just thinking, I'm not doing this anymore, and I just go into a total conflicted state. Like, I wanna go there. You wanna go here? We're not talking the same language here. And I'll just like go bang off LOP on the floor and just go into white, and they'll be non-cooperative during that state because they basically they're in a stressed out of mind as well, which is from frustration as well agree or disagree. Probably not I think that kids to thing that looks more exactly. Like what dogs do they'll play with the toy that they have in their hand? And just pretend they can't hear you in the same sort of way. So you might find that. The kid you'd be like, hi, okay? Come over here for dinner and suddenly the Bumblebee transform. I is the most is the most amazing thing he's ever seen in these loss. Even though see next to him a second ago the same way with people say, oh, my dog's really interested in what he's sniffing over there. Will he could smell that? When he arrived at didn't suddenly just become more amazing. That's fair kids do that where they kind of looking up at you Sime time while they plying with it. Yeah. Like giving you like a slow up look and look down at the autumn and doing a union, but no one can say because we're on. Yes. So so that that definitely like I think for sure I I observed that in in market. Yeah. Yeah. When I'm like, hey, we gotta go do this. Suddenly, he's he's displaced. If it's something that he doesn't want to do. He doesn't give any oh position. Because there's an outcome for that. So he just pretends. He can't hear me and gets engrossed in what he's doing which is exactly what you do is doing when he sought sniffing the ground at sent. That's been there the whole time three recession up to that point. That's right. If the sent became novel, I would understand, and then we're having a different conversation lucky for now the dog passed and peace. Yeah. Recession. He suddenly find your doggies way more interested in the Senate on the floor. Then that I would argue and I'm not corrected in this segment. But I think in general terms that that's a displacement behind it into that. It's not always like, it's not always a behavior where the dog is totally engrossed in the Santa like they looking up and looking around, and so returned to the Santon, you might say the dog actually go through stress related behaviors like yawning, and pinning it tees and so forth because the dog is is trying to work out. How to shed the stress that feeling at the time. It's so stressed at that point in time that dust it doesn't really know what to do with. And it's not a typical stress that people use the same because people used to like when you think of stress we say that would people think of like fee top strays, right? 'cause you eight you if you Google it. I'm sure that your come up like stressed dog. You're gonna find the photo is probably more of a fear response in the Doak. Absolutely. That's because that's what people at times too. And if especially if you're doing something that your dog. Enjoyed. He probably was having a great time for the first ten minutes. And it's been a decreasing amount of greatness of the loss. Something you know, we we discussed we'd Pat, unfortunately, he's not viable to talk about. But you know, what he was talking about the idea that something an animal will do of its own accord in ease rain forcing can be used as a punishment. If it's used at a frequency high than the animal would choose to do so rat running on a wheel if he chooses to do that. And he likes doing it. If you make him do it can still we opponent by making him doing it more than he wants to do it himself. It's the same in your training. A lot of people don't understand how hard you can stretch your dog just by doing too much training. And especially if you're working working. I mean, it seems to be the common theme of so much. We talk about that at the moment is that working to pay performance. Once you go over the top of that the dogs like we'll I can't do it any better. And that's that's why the stress threshold comes into play with everything you're doing like, it's all it's always appellative up into a. Point. Yeah. And the same thing like you said before with the red on the wheel anything even aiding. I you can eight to a point where you just thinking. Oh, that was absolutely perfect. And you used a great analogy the other night when we're having that conversation when he said people in restaurants. No how to measure the right amount of food to keep you interested. Yeah. Okay. But if they gave you if they gave you what you wanted in it, then instead of you feeling like mantle gonna come back here again, then you would feel like oh man this place too much like the food like the food, but the intensity of its to say, I use this analogy all the time clients, and I think about it myself with dog is that when you go out to eight desert the person serving you desire is an expert in that field. And therefore, they give you an amount that you're happy with totally stoked that you had it. But at the end, you think Faulk wish there was more. Hey finish on a high yet. And if there was more, you wouldn't feel that way. And then what happens is that's the expert. He's. A chef he'd knows how to he's he knows how to give you that feeling. So that you wanna come back to that restaurant. And that you can quite that to a very good dog trainer who finishes the session on who finishes the session in a way where the dog goes life. All that was amazing. I'm glad it happened. I'm not left hanging. But I definitely want more. That's that's where you wanna finish every session. Yeah. Whereas what happens with the non professional or the person who's not paying attention to what they do. Is you end up like me where you're at home, and you two layers of us cream. And you crowing rating it and you wondering why you still doing it as shoveling it into your face. And then you go like, oh never having cream again. And for three days, you you don't want us cream again. And that's what happens when people are the do with their dogs, and the problem with all of this is there's this this temptation to put a time to these things, and we use the example of five minutes, and that's what I use for myself. But if one that works for myself, a Mazda all of training, you look at say Auburn Alabama was trying to transfer forty minutes an hour at a time, but he's doing so in a way with a dose as motivated through. He's built up to that as well. Yeah. And it's not to say like is switching between behaviors achieving. So. Say that there's a rule where you say it's five minutes, and you must stop. It's depends on the dog. It depends on the person depends on the way. You're training depends on your rainfalls depends on all these different things. And what you're using his arraigned forces really important as well. If you're using just engagement as a rainfall saw black then that you can continue to use for a long time because the dog's going to set wanna stay with you if you'll using a food is a rainforest A, depending on the top and Nitra of the dough universites shit, the Doak some copies, I shed it. So you never gonna hit that issue. You does gonna work and work and work for the food. Hopefully, then he feels sick from having Eytan too much food after the session long enough. He doesn't make the association to the station signs play lock your dog. If you doing really highly rim bunk shis play you're gonna you're gonna wear out the dog, and then learning can still happen. If you don't is still interested in engaging, but the play went Bezos intense, and that you then have to decide what is that pot of my criteria lack 'em. I am I rewarding my dog really truly just to be rewarding him or more rewarding. In a way to work on scrip. This is why I tend to with people who do work I tend to not recommend that they play too much tug with their dog. Yep. Because they rewarding disingenuous in the way that they been reward the dog, it's not really a war reward because they have not area motive because I need the dog to the tug in particular way in order to mind Tiny's, even the why the developing the by the grip is so it's it's not a blanket rule. It's not a blanket road. I'd say to everybody, but even myself like opera upper photo reward with the bowl because I don't give a shit. How you bought the bull and we'll have the bowl in the string. We're playing tug game. It feels the same. But he's not gonna make associations to that. In the way that he would make as he's not going to link the bowl to the group work on the main lack he would grip lucky would attack that I'm holding to to the bought suit because you know, it's the same material similar action. And so this is level of disingenuous when applying with my dog the tug because I need it to go with particular way. And he he therefore may not find that extremely rewarding. Whereas with the bowl can grab it Radley's head chump shit because that's no, that's that's what he wants to do in order to reward himself with the ball. And I think that's important. So I just wanted to put that caveat. Because a lot of what way talking about and have been talking about. He's about short intense sessions. Yep. But there's people who don't do short intense sessions where we segue back in the Florida. Yeah. And flow state is I mean, you can do a session as long as you need it to be provided that you don't breach outside those walls of going to high and changing anxiety and frustration becoming too low and becoming boarding what you're actually doing you found, and this is the way this way mastery in a lot of training aspects comes from because you know, how to maintain and achieve that result in your training. Shed gills someone who like you used Ivan is in example, before you know, you could say that in a lot of wise been his mastered. He's training a lot of these dogs. There's a lot of people bought Markle Ivan dozens of doing it at home, and no that's why. Yeah. Exactly there's people who had doing it on a day-to-day basis that just training earned oaks fun. However, David chief status with the dog that they know how long to take the dog for because they intimate and the knowledge of handling that can be processed. There's something just want to rewind back to a conversation you having before you talking about which is reliable where discussing now, and that you said that when you doing an L training session with the client that our is not a bad doing now with the dog in the very early days. We used to call it walk and talk. Okay. So you spend a certain amount of time doing the work in a certain amount of time discussing the work. So I think that was that's a perfect statement that a lot of people especially young China's Natan understand about is people feel guilty about not going around the people's houses and doing an hour solid work of marching ran field. You do your client and the dog a great disservice? If that what you think a private lesson is all about what you need to do is you need to. It's like the old biblical saying give a man a fish. He aids for day teach him to fish any eight to the rest of his life. What your job is to do is to take the client how to learn enough skills that they are comfortable taking on what you're showing them. So they can stop progressing to the next point. And you might need to go they between anyway between two and ten times in privatization. Okay. I know people have ethical issues about that as well. They once I don't wanna rip the off if you're helping the client with the result, and you and them have come to an agreement, and you know, and they know it is best for the dog. How could you possibly be ripping them off? I've had these discussions with young and initial China's before with upset how many private lessons. Do you think? Night said heck, and I answer that I haven't even seen the dole that you talking about, you know, only until you doing assessment you actually go ran and look at the dog will determine how long the dog be trained for be hell adapt. The client is and see how many more lessons need to be achieved on top of that before world shine them something, and they asylum with immediately in said to him, maybe one more. Let's see how we go will do coal may on the issue that you know, that that's one of the reasons why I have never sold packages have been asking tons with all boy ten and Pifer. No. I know something like it was pretty common people have that. I'm like, I've never I've never allowed anyone to do it because I just kind of feel like well, what if we only need six, then you're paying all then on the hook for that. Also as we've discussed them, it's it's custom built. Yeah. But also a lot to tell people to get fucked, and if they've paid for ten sessions and only four then on stock another six. So that's one of the reasons but mostly just because of that luck. When people say a want to want to buy ten sessions, there's an inference in that the dog will be fixed in ten sessions or that the problem will be I shouldn't say that. Oh, we fix the reason that they come into training. We'll be done intense sessions that inference and it's never done. No dog is ever finished training. He's learning every day. And so I don't like doing that. Exactly. As you say like, that's. No helmet can take. It depends on how much work you do when we're not trying. It depends on how how will you follow the instructions some people just like to feel emotionally better because they handed over the money and actually do any of that stuff during the week. And that's the thing. So that's fine. But it means we're going to be training forever. You never gonna improve whereas other people especially people who maybe have had to make some sacrifices in lofta. Boy this information from you. They're like give it all to me told me everything can and they go in impart that knowledge is as perfectly as they're able to. And then they don't need a second session. So why try and push a second session on them. If that unaided if they're intelligent enough in they've that don't have the money to waste, you know, everything is cost and value lucky someone, you know, it costs what it costs. But the value of that to everybody is different the cost is the sign, but the value is very different. I'm a fan believe that everybody in business everybody who's working and making a living out of and with the doesn't really matter. When you making leaving out of training, for example, everyone's got a hassle everyone's gonna put milk and bread on the table when you've got this job, and you relied on his in income. However, these people who hostile in a good way, we've just been talking about like you actually work with your client. Yeah. And you don't try and come to many more sessions own and these people who just Cape making their client feel like they'd never really getting anywhere unless they coming around and doing one molesation one more session, one more session know, plenty of people that do that. And I hate the baby at a main. They always come with the badge of integrity and have very little of it. Yeah. And it's a it's a very disappointing thing because it Homs the industry it's a tricky on as a sort of a different conversation. But he's doesn't matter flooding. It's a flow state into something. It's a tricky one because there are a lot of people in this industry it here in a stray with people, we know very well. And now, I'm starting to say as as network grows internationally say it in different groups in different countries as people who sort of want to build an audience of the of the clients like they need them to be unable to come to us away. Ship. Yes, roy. And it's just a lotta times that's not necessary. And then those the people that are always espousing. There's no such thing as one station because a lot of time there is like this is the thing. Like, I I always say a do a lot of behavior. More sort of stuff at the moment. Well, that's not true. I do a lot in home stuff. I'm not doing so much of it. But I when I was I would say to people like I would say had long as he's gonna wanna know of the fine before you get one another thing. And I was like I have no I can't tell you at all. But I can tell you I'm gonna come in and bay there as long as that takes. So when do an in home thing, this is why I've been trying to avoid doing it too much because I block out get least four hours of my day. So that there is no need to leave. Right because that was certainly not gonna work to four hours, but I'm going to be there, and we're going to be writing notes together. And I'm gonna give you as much as I'm gonna give you the whole plane, and then what I used to do and still do still do is where practical I'll go back one time at no cost. Oh, that's included in the first one. Right. So that what I say to people is if you're confused call me a five minute phone call rather than is better than seeks of doing the wrong thing. And then when you think that you'll stock somewhere or you're not sure what to do come around again and just make sure you're on the right track. And that there's no charge for that. That's on the same. You've paid for that. So use it. But a lot of people because I spend a lot of time using explaining this stuff. This is not typically dealing with extreme dogs. But even some of them have been very bad, very problematic, but you lay it out for people right here. And it's like people aren't stupid. We're not we're not espousing magic. We're not magicians. All this stuff is just behavioral science. And if you if you quit you people with the Denali of in where to get more knowledge. This is where luckily spoken about many times is that if you'll unwilling to to name, your mentors or even just named the book where you got the thing the relevant topic from right? Yep. Luck. The I watch a lot of my clients watched suppose skis dove main jackpot study, and I sit there, and I explained and usually it has to do with pets off it usually has to do with how the on a variable reinforcement schedule for behavior that don't date for strengthening behavior that don't want all explain the process to them. And we talk about it. But then I'll send them the link. So that like. They can rewatch that again. And then if they're into it and most of these people because they've just paid a lot of money to have a go, I come and talk to them about their dog. They then sort of fall out that research, and in that link leads to something else and they follow these kind of things down the rabbit hole. And then I know these people that don't call me back like with a lot of my clients maybe half, I never hear from the second time. But I say them around like I say the issue with the dog is is not a problem anymore because they're out in public with the dog. And I say the issue, and it's mostly my local area that I'm doing this stuff. And if there's any Ray service you'll day. Yeah. Exactly. And but like, I is probably off. And then there's plenty that do coal, and I'll have to go back, and there's some people that are on, you know, all the time. And then I have one client that I say every week, and I just try and the dog and same thing they pay me for any all, and they are fully aware that made the go and get coffee together and hang out the training happens. But as they know like a train stoke for an hour, but we do the little stations. We keep it all taught how you want. The is that I work with the dog. And they are with this is this is just how trainees, but like I said like there's a lot of people. And I'm always when people say look at my dog that look at someone's dog and say, oh, yeah. You need four sessions. He says has can go. I'm always like. I feel like this is a template that you're applying and Kenya somebody will ask some people can like I'm not saying that everybody says that is wrong over ping people off. But I just feel like a lot of people have the capacity that they just want to trickle out knowledge, and they'll tell you that the the client isn't ready for all of that. Oh, you don't want to them with too much knowledge. And it's like, well, if you've blocked out the four s some people that's right something one hundred percent. That's true. But like, I say I had these loss week refer unbelievably Smallwood referral from someone from a friend of Aamer actually from hypocrisy class, blah, blah, blah. I get the people with very intelligent people. And so we sat there and we discussed by science, and it was a puppy with separation anxiety issues and explain the whole process to them how they got to that point how to fix it. And it's really they enjoyed it. And they've already sent me emails like, oh, we've been looking into this and this and and they want to do more things with their dog now. So they'll be a client, but probably doing training of cool stuff rather than fixing. Shoes. So anyway, that's my sort of rant about it. But I just feel like I'd ever remember how we go to these point. But we're talking about well we're talking about length of timing. Yeah. And so this is so this saying about you can only try the dough for a few minutes. I resisted doing scope sessions of like dog training Kombi down over the phone argued that for a long time, actually aggression. Yeah. And people who people would since we started the cost, and we had Lisa's now in places I can't physically get to people ask for a long time to do scope stations. I resisted it for so long. I highlighted the idea of doing it before the pressure of overwhelming set up a system to do it in a love it now because it really is a much I'm saying really good results in people's dogs. Because typically what happens is people book session. We talk through whatever they gonna do. We explain the whole thing. Then they go out and do it. And they send me a video of what they've done and then. We can critique off of that. And then we do another session. We can talk about that. Or if it's something simple. I in the textbook text backs. I do this. And it means that the dog progresses. Hape sped rather than that face to face one hour away way. Would we spend of the hour? We spend fifty five minutes just talking anyway. And the dog just wondering around wondering what the FOX going on. It's better that does not even there, and we do it over the phone. And then they send things full the top of training that I'm interested in doing like, I say aggression, like that's probably not gonna work of giving plenty of generic advice on aggression. But certainly nothing that would you know for your dog doozy's wouldn't do that of the phone. But yes, so it's interesting how that's panned out. Like, I was totally against it. I thought this is so bad and the and and then there's the idea what was the most annoying thing about me. It's the same when we're trying to organize a Polk houses over where it's like, well, I'm in these times iron. So it'll be Wednesday for me like trying to time. It's just that'd be there in the morning, and you'll have to be there in the afternoon yet that back and forth disaster. So now, I've got a scheduling app that you send people link it displays they timezone olden. Tom's are available. Nice it as giving it in their own. It's great. Our commend every trying to get that. It's called acuity it integrates we've straw and squeezed by Oles, it's super good, and yeah, it's definitely with like, I think it's about two hundred fifty bucks a year or something like that. But you set your hours and people can say it, and then like sounds like it'd be bad for myself. But when you're on the web website on my website. You can't tell really that. You're actually on the acuity whip so lucky integrates perfectly square spice, and so you. Yeah, it's great you, and they can see your whole Calende book times pay it's old on it. So it's really good. And I fought it for so long. I was like no that is not how training's done, but turns out I'm getting really good results that and go to load of clients now that are really happy doing. Well. A lotta times in those applications not dog training, you people training. Giving giving them you actively giving them tools why and experiments say they go with that. Yeah. Like, I said, I just don't I shouldn't say I don't because I did. There was somebody in Queensland who contact me asked me few things the dog and gave them some tapes and it worked. But fortunately, I know that person is savvy an actual understanding dog training behind you. So the average person I wouldn't do it. I just want conduit because they'll end up going there and getting bitten by the dog. I should assured say I should give the caveat that I would guess. At least probably ninety percent of more of the people on talking can be one hundred percent at the minimum like dog training enthusiasts that I'm doing these phone calls with if no already professional dog. So they switched on yet. Yeah. So we're dealing in the fought the top five ten percent of information. It's not average person that just got a problem with that. I agree with that you need to be there. Because it's always a lost thing you need to be like what's happening. He you know, what I mean? Like these guys on the other day when I go to the house, and the dog jumping all over me, and their lack of what are you going to do that on doing the right thing right now to Tova co L let it jumping me and in a couple of minutes, it's going to be taught and it goes down. And then I'm gonna pet like he can't give that that's just a thing that happened, and we dealt with that right there on the spot, you know, to mainland. You can't do that. When you're over the phone, for example, on talking about the whole aggression aspect to clients last week one with a dog that ran away from me and. One with the dog that ran at me with the Gration. So you still talking about a similar aspect bun to varying behaviors that the client had no talking about and head on knowledge saying that? Yeah. Had another bane in the room and witness the actual behavior. Couldn't give them the advice and the steps leading up to the the progression. They actually need the time. So they show me the sky. I'm not getting entirely different pitcher because they want me to say yet, rob them what I need to say from the dog. So I don't need an interpretation that point in time. What on natives is life would each of the dog doing it in real life? Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, there are many many applications to reach people. And thank you know, thankfully with technology. We have the ability pass on information in relative time on we can do it right there on the spot that people can actually we can send links and falls to each other right there. And it's not like twenty years ago. He couldn't do this took over the phone. And you couldn't get a mental image of what was going on what they were trying to show you and. Affects things backwards votes. Terrible. So yet technology is certainly progress to the point where we can do a lot of fantastic things. So with your flow site. Let's go back to that flows. That we've talked a lot about what happens when your too high on the on that way and the axis of the flow state ROY way too much stress and having conceded. What happens too much when you're in the lowest I ROY with is not enough stress is not enough. There's not a foul in the in the outcomes that you're you're working for where I think Comey what Buca rented, but it's like that eighty percent zone is way you want. That's like that learnings on optimal learning zone. We still making mistakes. But you getting the action about eighty percent, correct? And that's what you want to want to try and maintain. So when you get to one hundred percent, correct. Then you need to increase the criteria in some way. Whether it's the full training, whatever the criteria res whether that's decent duration distractions, whichever one of those. Gonna try and increase, but you need to get to the point where there is some value happening a little bit. So that you can correct foul ya and comeback online. That's going to happen, regardless. However, it's it's. I guess what? I guess the principal at around at ease that you want to try and mine Tyne, the flow state is long and as possible as you can what you want to look for is what is the direction that I actually need to avoid bosting ad of these like when you can start to say the dog edging away from it. Then that's when you need to call the session needed a look at it and say, okay, well, it's probably time to finish. Because I'm going to start losing the dog any from any point onwards. This statement such as normal one more time Mary's into the processes because what people will do is all site. And it's again, it's like the cream analogy that you using before deciding, well, maybe I'll just try one more bought and say how I feel off the one mobile not stop it showing you some videos doing lady bug the other day and at the end of the session, I did with her. She was jumping up on the table and trying to get to the trails using because she was basically saying, you know, still got stuff. Lifting me. However, if I give it what she wants like very well push arrive at the age. Yeah. I to the point where she saying, you know, look, I really didn't have one more just wanted more traits. So the point is is if you do it on a regular basis, and what I'll do is all use an example of what you and I do without training. Mike. I I do a lot of little amounts of training with Randy like, I'll take him out soon as like at some announ, it's hot shit outside. But as soon as the not comes I'll just walk him out in the oval, and I'll stop doing some training with him. And I know you do a lot you like have a lot of shed jeweled events Ramey that you'll just take him out. You know, you'll guy for walks down the street or when you finished doing clients or anything like that you'll point and start doing little bits and pieces. So for me, I'm constantly doing training, you'll constantly doing training with constantly in a in a position where we're in a flow state with their dogs the entire time doing constant little amounts with their dogs for us. A hobby uses the context when he's talking about. He's work in Brazilian. Jitsu like, hey, trains, five or six times a week. Okay. And he's talking about he's rolling with PayPal for one to two time five six times a week. And he's saying there's other guys in the GM that coming and I smash it out for like two to three times a week, and they'll try and Hoddinott go the go like spotting for that time that they're in. But he says if I look at it from if I do like an analysis of Hammy times I trained enrolled throughout the year. He said, I've got double the amount of knowledge and work out that you've got and yet never had to push myself will smash myself into a state of thing. Totally atomization. Oh uncomfortable. Yeah. Because I was always in flow site, the whole time, I was working at comfortable's state. But shaved double the amount of what you've done because I'm constantly working in what I wanna do. And I'm still in state does that slow steady in crit slow city increase, but maintaining flow site the entire time with the dog, and I watch people. Online working with the dogs like a lot of people on Instagram constantly doing some really nice work with the dogs, but not pushing too much just doing a little bit every day. So there's a myriad of people on main way following the sign PayPal. They following with us as well. And I'm just saying them just do a little pinch on Monday and a little pain on Tuesday and a little pinch on Wednesday. But the only just and the rest on the fucking around with the dogs for walks having a good time. And then they'll start doing a little page, those Dinalupihan Freud, I in looping said I and the rest of the time is as mocking around with dogs. Yeah. There's no instruction. There's no demand. There's no work involved in it and the dog is constantly getting trained every single day. Okay. With that you thinking shit. Now got a I've progressed tonight at so much during the week that I have to get out there and smash out training with the dog. And then you make it a terrible session. So you'd become out of Fleiss tied into a state of frustration anxiety with adult with dog singing. Hey, hey, hang on this. Is this knockout? Well, and you'll not in a good stidham on to say it because y'all rushed and you'll and a lot of people do this retrial. They leave leave it leave it leave it, then they get right up till the end of it. And then I wanna smash it out with the dog where the dog hasn't been actually conditioned into the behavioral state of mind to think to itself, this is just my routine does my daily routine going into trial is just routine basis. It's it's easy. I know it it's a lost. All and I guess that's the point where a lot of people miss it. And it's probably a very important point to add into the conversation is flow state is not just about achieving flow state. It's also the lost all around to make sure that you can maintain that on a regular basis. And by the end, let's say, for example, months lighter waving a year later when you get to it, you realize of done so much good work that my dog doesn't know any other way to behave. The why I'm teaching it to you. And the attitude of the dog is still high and it's up eight about it. It's. Still looking forward to it. And may and the dog it's just like time pastas boy, and yet got to the end of it. And I'm gonna amazing because of it Annabella Hanley China because of it as well. Yeah. Putting that into practicalities where people like, I I think everybody sort of gets that most people under not hard hard because it does not doing it. Yeah. So I've been asked a few times to talk about it on the show this nails Thomas any like, what does training actually look at the moment with my own dogs. So say, for example, training for pace I too so most mornings early taking straight out to the field where we trying. This is my retain good bad or otherwise. Right. When we get there. The kosh shaking. He he's the Hambrecht goes on knows we're gonna work. We're doing stuff he's screaming and balking and the kosh striking a let him straight out. He goes and MTC straight away. And then he comes back to me and chick- seen like, hey, I'm ready to work in that main time, I'm just getting he's reinforce already. He doesn't say that. Because he's yet. Emptying. Then we go out onto the field, and we'll try and we'll try and for like maximum of five minutes, and and realistically it obey probably three reinforcements is what three to five reinforcements Fahim at the moment. And we'll do some healing because we're training for pace I level to abeyance. He'll do some healings Ray Kohl's some changes of position downing on the on the recall, those kind of things and he'll make mistakes and address those mistakes as they happen. But I note to myself Acadia crate forward on the change of position or whatever didn't lock about the session. Correct. It at the time, but I don't try and put too much effort into it right there. And then unnoted if I if I can if it's an appropriate behavior all us pressure at the time to fix it. But cipher example, he a do a stained from down any crepes Iran's forward out of it. There's not a really very good way to correct that at that time. So I just certainly don't reinforces and move. On. Yeah. Go onto the next behavior and a note. Okay. That's what happened. So they would do like three to five reinforcements max, and that's like with some very high value reinforce or game. And then we put on his so Dan, tell him we're done. He runs around own thing for a minute while I get the white Poggi set up because he's got that. Usually, then we'll go and we'll we'll track around the field he'll drag white doing that. And then take that off. And then he goes around around based on dog. Right. So we will be to get off for forty minutes of that time, but five of them training where we we're working in a hostile of arousal. Then is the white pool section where he's in a medium soda state of arousal because he likes to drag style. But I also am trying to control these body very persona time. And then he's a little bit toy to the gets to run around and be dog when we muck around together. So that's all fun. But then the really important part of my training is then that no it so in that morning. I addressed a found out where there's a problem and is always a problem. Something always goes wrong. Then at not we address that issue. So he's dinner at night. He owns through fixing at through careful measured repetitions of whatever we did in the morning. So for example, if inside. Time example, you say he creeps forward on stand from the down. Okay. Will then that's what we're working on it. And I get them a Michael it's back out. And maybe my man as doc in reinforcing with the food from behind him, you know, whatever whatever the bin. That's the exact one I did yesterday. So that's fresh in my hidden. But we dress that issue we do like a bunch of reps maybe five to ten rips or whatever of that exact thing. So that it's component trying to put that paces together. And then I get him out this morning, and is not trading chine. There's no creeping forward on the down. So that's what an average one looks like. And I think that change the flow state, very well. Because we we always again make mistakes, I'm pushing their training to the point where he makes mistakes, and we're doing it in the what will be the end state of arousal, which is high as possible. That's how I want him for competition are one as a rouse. Does he can possibly be for the competition having to work through that state of arousal because he will be like they'll be today quiz, agitating him throughout work through that. Of course, he makes mistakes of causing competition. He's gonna make mistakes. Of course that those things are gonna happen. Every time I dressed the era at the time. And I make it right at the time. If I can, but I don't then stop motion and go back to component training. I just noted and then we do a different top of sation a different location. Go. Okay. We fix that problem. We dented it and the same day. But just you know, I'd lighter with fix that problem, and or not fix it. We get repetitions of at looking how I want it to look, and that's. I think the flow Stipe explained pretty well. Right. And then if you wanna talk flow site, you can apply it to every component of what I'm doing that training say the white pool is a lifestyle. That's the whole thing. Flow state is not just about training your dog. It's about how you felt in the moment in anything you doing. And it's like time warping to the end of it and thinking she had got the. Yeah. I feel awesome. Yeah. Take the white pool component of training at the moment. You know, probably on jobs coming back later in the year. We'll probably play some white Putin Jace stuff like pace is game. But a lock that I want to support it and like a one a play in it as well. But the reason I'm doing the white is because he's got a tyrannies ICL. I'm like pre having basically void surgery. So the flow site is also like easily explaining that as well. Because if he's not carrying any white, and I might my dog woke next to me, he would be bored out of his Brian. He would be like why are we doing this while we walking around field in loosely Schwab? This is. Dumbest thing for him. That would be pure punishment. Imagine anything worse to him. He would height doing that. If I go to heavy I'm gonna fuck. He's ICL even worse. So it of got like a small Amana white that he finds little bit challenging pool, and he's happy to pull it. And we do we do loops for awake. And then I put an extra plight on. And then we keep going. So he's always slept slow steady increase way to challenge to pool but not so hot he's going to injure himself. But also not so low that he's like, I why we doing with this. That's the flow state. It is that your eyes. So you tach that to everything everything every skill every top of training. It's making sure that it's difficult enough to be challenging with while doing not so much that it causes a problem and not so little that. It's no longer a challenge in his day for without the challenge. It really is almost a punishment rather than rainfalls ING, but then also mind tighening the level knee amount that you're actually doing. So you don't become frustrated trying bashing too much work. It's like create. Eating the perfect cake. Like a su- flight, you need all the ingredients to make it Roy's and Cape. It. They. We use a cake, except we used onscreen us. Craig was good. That's what you're going to be quiet for we need tasty patience. Yeah. Just Mike the. Good. Good. Cooked. That sounds like something. Ralph would siphon the kid good. Carry on new making the cake. So all the ingredients need to combine. I mean, if you miss one of those ingredients that cakes can Roy's. Okay, you're not gonna get it to the point where it needs the bait. And it's the same thing that people need to do on a daily basis that you you just need to do enough. Not to be not to get to the point where procrastinating name worrying about having to smash it out. That's the big thing. And that's the I mean. I mean. Oh, talk a lot about the entity. If student movements in podcast, but when I'm coaching the guys on just their own learning criteria oocyte on and this is learning from my own experience because I procrastinated battling things before. And I've got to got to a state of high stress where the left things things things and the common y looking at is I got like twenty weeks to smash these out, this is going to be awesome. Some time I'll do it next week. Then nineteen wakes ninety wakes is awesome. Then sixteen weeks because time flee boy, and I've got fifteen wakes, and I'm Dan the twelve weeks and I'm down to ten weeks. And I'm thinking ten wakes still easy. It's doable. You know, it can do these intent wakes before now at five weeks, and I'm thinking to myself, oh, there's a bit of pressure here. And it seems like in my former way of doing things and even now on activated by pressure. Yeah. Not good pressure. It's pressure. Like the wall is closing in on me. And I can feel it. It's like a restricting room where the the wall stop moving in on you thinking, I've got time to look for an escape, you know, I can look for the latch and get out of here and so forth. Whereas maybe just walked out the door at the stop the walls wouldn't started moving in on. But now you've got to that stage. We've got five weeks left, and then you still even contemplating procrastinating during that time because you thinking well other things are happening in life. And it's not that in achievable, and you can't do it. Because at the at the start of that is twenty weeks, if you incrementally did the work you'd be done well, and truly by now, you'd be feeling comfortable you'd be in a position, we could revise everything. And you think that's that was good. You know, I'm comfortable with doing. But then you use the excuse well life got in the way, sometimes it does. But often you can find that ten minutes that you could have done it in. There's plenty of people. And when we using the descriptive of of of clients when you doing private licence with them a lot of times people say to me all. Time is difficult and said let me walk through a die with you. And tell may way you don't have fifteen to twenty minutes and often people when they doing it like they're trying to hide the fact that they've got fifteen to twenty minutes like thou Mike fifteen to twenty minutes sitting on the couch watching TV because that important to the, but I'm saying him helm portent is it to have a relationship with the dog in your home. Yeah. These are the principal points about not doing these top it or not getting into these types of habits. So you can't achieve Fleiss date. So you can have that loss stall. And you can have everything you wanted and more because you're not making you're not adjusting your life to a terrible point where it's become so laborious what you doing is. You're developing a lifestyle where everything can fit in and you can slot things enormously. Yeah, it's funny. How we apply the examples that are relevant to us like in the dog trying to run I agree with you. And. We've we've been trying the level to pace iced off since we passed a pass my pace, I level one on a Sunday. And I was trying to liberal to on on the Monday, right? Like, it's a year. Why that test now what four or five months or something? But you know, what I used to do when I was at school. Like, I was that kid that would do assignments on the bus on the way to school at at the minimum at the it was due to be handed in at the best and not before on doing it. And then do on the boss on the way to school. And I would say. Procrastinate if you'd ask me, then I would say. Yeah. Impregnator and would be described that way, but many people and teaches and so forth, but really pretty good at school. Right. And so I would argue and I know myself pretty well. Now from experiences, I've had any on a be precious few people that I'm I'm under no allusions as to who. I am in my Bryner. I just know perform bitter on stress the product that I've produced on the bus on the way to school is a better product, and I would produce over the six weeks. If I did the ten minutes every day. I know that to be true of myself that is the case in various different people, and that's fine. But we're not talking about. It doesn't apply to try, and I try because you talking about another Spacey's doesn't who doesn't mirror. What you can personally and understand that. And I respect it because I know people who I went to school with a guy called shine. And he was constantly distracting. Everybody else like constantly, causing a ruckus. He was like a one of my mice funny. But China was always like he was the guy that was always pinching someone getting him in trouble. And he was mocking ran in school. He would never do work on the date yet at the last minute. He would pull off an eight loss. Yeah. Yeah. He was just that kind of guy who could who could work in that pressure but loved that that sort of linear law stall where he could be like that he could be like that. Because he was that where other people had swapped for the exam. You know, like that to spend plenty of time working and contemplating and studying and committing it to memory. Well, he just had one of those photographs memories. He was fortunate that he would just uptake knowledge very very quickly. But. Trying to work trying to include another person full. That's where foles. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And that's what's happening with the dog. Yeah. Like, you you're in that state of like, it's no fade lock on Makram can do this at the last minute pull it off eight of the dog. It's not fair to try and pull that often the delegate or another person. Or another child or anything that you can't be comparative on the other Spacey's and less. You can see that they share that understanding in that knowledge uptake as well. Like, if it's your child much all loans at Massey brighten, it constantly nagging me and pushing me to do it. And they have that ability to be out of mock around in constantly pulled off at the end. What's the bubble in that? Yeah. There's a fusion of the two, you know, like, I feel like especially with dogs if you get a puppy, and you intend to do cool things with it taking it to loan is more important than taking it anything. So like having a skill in mind of like, I'm gonna have by the time. They still five months old. I'm have sit down. Stan perfect. Right. Just making on sorry. I wouldn't say it's more important than anything teaching it to be social and teaching it debate. Yeah. Totally that show show. Yeah. Yeah. I had doing dejected because that is a very for living with the dog yet. But I maintain a dog that it controls its environment falls into the same bucket that you are in control the outcomes. And this is how you learn. And these are the cues I give you and you should interpret them in a particular way. I feel like that is more important than actually teaching the Dogo single behavior. Took me a long time to understand this. And that's why I sort of hop on lot. When the NATO when I'm teaching people is like is the nape load about shaping. But it's if the dog never understands what you want through shaping it, that's fine. Because in the process of trying to take the Doug what you want through shaping Hewlett created a dog who's ready to just be showing what to do. And so it's not so much about if the Doug loans the behavior in the shaping or some that's great. But if all you create is a tough resilient active dog who can receive pressure walk and take that dog anything minutes. Right. So it's the same as and then you can tell if. Take it easy at the start. And you're in that flow state at the Stott entities not fair. But it's certainly possible to cram at the end with the dog. So for example, the other day when we first did the first God with Remmy in in at the club. You could see it was a scenario. We I'd shaped it but onto me, and it was a first time to another person. And we touched the lines to him. So that it couldn't go wrong. And you could say him bicycling could say Tico Vranjes, Brian where he went. Okay. What's happening? He you'll yoyo pudding paces together for me show me what you want. And it was as simple as like he almost went limping the body and via the lawns. We dragged him into the position. And I was like that's the position you got it now boy. And then you would after that. Because it was it. It was married up to what he he was. But we did it very quick because he's in a position to learn. He had all the raw tools for he he read the situation was like you'll taking me something used the pressure to put me in the position. That you want got it. Okay. Now, I know what you want. Let's let's carry on. And then he knows how to God from the hopefully resolute cards. That's now way the training goes. But in a very short period of time showing something because he understood on learning something you all those fill into position, and then you could use positive negative to push him into that position. Which is cool if you can pull that off with your dog, absolutely. That was a mouthful wasn't it. Yeah. We're on good on what I did want to eat before we wrap up. I just want to correct myself on the actual flow state, right? Angled graph. Is that the actual flow is a forty five degree angle. Not annoy new degree angle. Yeah. Yes. The actual flow graph is a ninety degree angle itself yet. We'll post it people know what it looks like the fl the actual flow Salko is forty five degrees. What I want to do before we wrap up to is probably have a shadow to a few people who've been instrumental in passing around some very good vibes about the kind on paradigm. Yeah. Hi before we do that. Always before we get to wrapping up. There's a good post actually now group there's been some really cool discussions. I'm really proud of a lot of people in the way that has been some hated talk. But people who have you know, let comma heads prevail and the cold, Dan again that brought up they just sort of stayed even though it's emotional topic. You know in the last episode spoke about live animal exports, and that's a that's a topic. That everybody feels dealy about. I think that if you looked at that footage of that was out of the by the shape dying my sick. Yeah. And you should you should be horrified at, but there was a really good discussion. Boy, people who were first outrage boy, but then some experts in the field because we have experts listening to didn't is people who are involved in that industry note perfectly. And then sends that we have I think sashes a name that has degrees in animal welfare. And that's the thing. So there was a really cool conversation where people like, hey, this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and everybody comes out with more knowledge and happy at the end of it. So I'm really proud of everyone for that. That was amazing. It was always worried with that was going at the start. However, as you said people have added their expertise to it and kept the conversation rational, the whole way, you know. And we're putting very silent points to it that I thought. Yeah, that's like that's spun in in a new direction, and the good thing about that is and we've talked about this before and we will. Well, and truly into the future is that it's okay to have an opinion on something. But when the FEC surrounding it start to come out, you have to be what you can't afford to be so region that you can't change them on. And that's one of the important things is you have to look at it from the perspective of what are the new facts all the new songs? So the new information rounded up look at the socks eggs on training concepts before where people have brought new knowledge and new science at to another looked thought this over rods. My current knowledge I have to adapt it into my understanding of where we are in training behavior. It's the same thing with any other topic. I've got opinions on things. However, there are people that know more about it than I do have to be flexible to change that's one of the most remarkable things about good balanced. Human beings is that they look at things incite. Yeah. Look. Anew anew. But it's not right. Yeah. It's inaccurate to to new findings new studies new San's, and to you know, to give credit somebody else on that off Chad side that before where we will say, we only know what we know in science because that's current science. Yeah. And you know, you are not your ideas like you can have free to express them. But if someone challenges them, like it's not necessarily an assault on, you know, it's like, this is your ID might be more be right and be challenged, and you can defend it or you might be John's and realize that's not right. And it doesn't diminish you as a person to change your mind. You always reserve the right to change your mind. This is when we first started doing the pocus that was my biggest concern was of change from window. Tom Bellezza stuff and people will be out to go back to the first episode. That's not what you said before. Because we what we knew. Then people fuck yourself. Like allowed to change your mind. Speaking about that, it was a fighting them. So yeah, pretty much. I saw a review that somebody lift us online. I was going through some different formats and different reviews, and I saw someone wrote to review and they said they enjoyed the show, but they severely disliked the man of swearing that you, and I do and that was off pointing to them which I can understand for some people that he's a fancy lock it. And I get that. And I pray that and I'm sorry, you feel that way. But it was their loss line that pays me off. And then they lost line. They said, I know everything I need to know about petting Glenn now. That was the that was the pinch at the end where they like they threw an insult to us. And I thought to myself, you don't know pet or I at all you don't know how much I can bench. That's right. No one knows that much. I can bench. Yeah. That by understand that like I said, I appreciate and accept that. Some people don't like casino swearing or whatever you wanna call it. I get it. Some people have have approach to us. But we have maintained from the dot that the show may have some adult language this again, we we've done it to the reality. Is you don't know who we all? So making statements like that is obnoxious, you might you point. Then you the sting on the end of it was just was unfortunate. If you're truly upset by the woods people make with the sounds people make with their face. You'll problem is note with the vice making that say on you have bigger things going on. Yeah. I think so who you give shout outs toss. So Megan terrier. Oh, yeah. She's adding mine as well. Believe with close personal friends Mandarin Terry and from the mine dog training company. Yep. Wanted to give Michelle at because they're getting a fib airplay. But they really in the lock there's a law. A lot of people do shed at two people on a regular basis. Incl- include that in shy. I think it's important to, you know, names community believes in and it's for us to believe in them as well. You know, I mean, it's a two way thing where where he because of you. And I really appreciate there's quite a lot of people who show us a lot of love. And like man I saw gigantic running on someone's form the other day that the kind on paradox wannabes favorite podcasts shows, and I've got his own podcast. I appreciate the fact that he went out of his white decisive something that really appreciate those calling woods a modal from Canada. She's another one. We done if time name one person. I didn't get named. We're going to do it a regular feature on the show. What if what if you the most adamantly Sner in your name never comes there? Imagine. How can you be? Thanks for everybody. Appreciate everybody. In in a group because we had a wind about like people asking too many questions. But now, you say people answer the questions that goes around and all the people get involved in that that's super happy with that. And again, it's one of those things I think we've maintained for quite some time is that we're not the best of all knowledge that's available in the world. And there's people in our groups that are well and truly expert about what we actually know that point on if you are the founder of that knowledge. Oh, you are an expert in that field bio Maine's feel free to help answer that question Naven, contact us. If these things that we've said on the show that inaccurate, and you feel that it would be better explained in a different way. And as they has been people in the past Rachel to us. Let us know. I don't want to constantly be putting at material that is inaccurate wrong outdated. If these better information, and it scientifically if it scientifically FEC checked, and you know, that for a fact by all means Phil fray, contact pedal. Roy. Both. We've got info at the kind on paradigm dot com. You can send us an Email, which we both get you can send it to us from L Facebook group, we both get and be able to read that as well. We often checking over the same material, sometimes or reply to it only sometimes I'll reply to it sometimes vice reply to it. But the fact is is that even if one says it and the other one doesn't we'll both discuss it together. Anyway, probably. Probably hey, the other one before we go. So there is a discussion at the moment amo posted in the group about a poppy pooling cry. And so that's an interesting thing. Posted this link to an article, but a explain it heats daisy. Then topping it out. I think when probably Poos the cry. So like, hopefully, it's a clean dog. Like, we would say, and it's been like what mother taught not to do that. We talk about dealing in hope. And so one of the things we think we can fall over the edge of that a little bit. He's I want the puppy to think there's no hoping coming nothing you do can get me out of the crate, but it has to be kind of an emergency release button. And so like there is a certain Croix. There's a different they you have to be at interpret that in the dog and go like, okay, this is a real emergency. Like you need out. This is not you being bradey. This is if it goes from if the crying can be substantiated from out of level levels out of ten in the crying and level three and they suddenly get to live on on women. No, something has happened. And that is usually that he's busting Poon needs to come out. So you either need to be on top of letting them out often enough that they never get to that point. So you never had the issue. But if it does happen. Needle at the mount because what happens, and I think this is in the case of what she's talking about in. These post is wants a dog realizes. They is no hope of getting lead out went on to PU he doesn't even white till he's Boston anymore. We just guys Juanita shit. I'll just do right here. There's another spectrum on that as well. Where the dog learns that shitting in the crate Mike's door. Yeah. Exactly. So that's a reward -able behavior. Lind's as soon as I shouldn't cry you let me start out. Yeah. And so because it's I mean Emma knows what she's doing. She just posted about it. But it's not your dog. So I'm happy to say layout is is a hard thing to come back from. It's really hot wanna do is. Even wanna dog is just it becomes a amusing. Why quotation marks dirty dog like that? He's happy to sheet in its kennel or in its crite that is hard to come back from because I just don't care anymore like in it, become gross little duty poo dogs. So good luck. But dealing in hope so he's realized that there's. No hope of getting out or exactly as you say might be. This is the behind spams hype. All there is it's reward -able, by the way, you're gonna end up with the dog that doesn't even try to hang onto his go in and shit. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's like, whoa. Condensate to do it. Right. He it's like, you know, you know, when you out Boston for crap this like as you as you close the bathroom dole to the toilet. That's the most busting you get. This is it it's happening. Now, you never get to that with the dog. It's like on a little bit some as we'll do it because what's the difference? So it's hot to come back from from that. And all posted it was a little bit cryptic. But it was because I'll show it on time. I was driving. He was the study in rats where they drown them if mood that one. Yeah. So like, a domesticated rat. We're not a domestic head route such thing, but that's handled by people regularly. You can put it in a bucket of water, and it'll it'll tread water between sixty and eighty hours depending on the temperature of the water. But if you get a a rat that hasn't had a lot of interaction with people and put him in the water, he'll drown in about fifteen minutes. So then if you get another one of those rats that has had no interaction with people put him in the water when he starts to look like he's not doing so well, you get him out draw him off and then put him straight back in the water. He then can tread water for sixty to eighty hours. And so it's not that case of that they so exhausted that they give out it's those rats that hadn't had interaction with people. Had no hope of being brought out. We got run it. They had. No hope. And once you give them hope, then they can hang on that can that can tread water. So it's like it relates to that they'll doggy in that that little dogs like there's no hope of coming out. So I'll just drown. I'll just shit the the crate. Yep. Because while it's going to happen. Anyway, it's a Siamese these rats even those capable of trading water, sixty to eighty hours. He's why tread water. And then sixty eight thousand of might as well just now sounds very much. Luck learned helplessness. It's exactly this is one of the experiments that the other one was on poor little doggie that didn't know how to jump a fence. But anyway, so that's that's one of the case of it, you go to find a way to give that dog and became if away you still hope you have to in some places, we won't know hope, but then I kinda feel like sometimes you want that emergency like the -mergency release button to mazing hail. We've migrated into these conversation because I was actually reading a manuscript a prisoner of war. And he said the only thing that kept him going even through starvation and torture and. Everything was the hope of saying family again. Yeah. He said if I had known waiting for me at high would've died on so years ago. Yeah. He said hope was the candle in the wind. You know, like, it just it had a motivator. Yeah. It's it's it's why everybody does anything that has no guaranteed outcome. Yeah. It's supposed jackpot. It is all of that. So. Yeah. Anyway, that's my story. It's easier than top eating Facebook is important. Yeah. Yeah. Sure, we're up at we should wrap it up. All right. That's it for another upset of the canon paradigm. As always if you like what you hearing. Please lock right. Share? Subscribe leave a comment saying that, you know, everything you need to know about us. If you want to support the show the biz I'd do that ease to jump on the patriot on three bucks a month. Get you access to an educational sewed. Once a month, we got one of those coming out pretty soon that's all recorded up and done. And then, you know, wake ten days light up. We'll have a law have questions answered in patron, and that sort of petite hen bucks a month. Yeah. Quite a few people being changing. Thank you, really. Appreciate it again explanation on that. Is it costs us more money to do that? 'cause it's time, but we have to pay for a subscription service that allows that to happen through petro soil, you sending up for the guys in the twenty which is coming out has been shipped. So hopefully, you guys I know it to some of you nabbed if you want us to sign those tastes shirts as well. Pets on chick yourself. It was I didn't. I didn't just surely it was asked in jest. No. It wasn't believe believe it. They say what you saw out to say happy to if you want to. Yeah. You could buy Mark phones that slowing starting VO. Oh, goodness. I put the gloss on it. And you just come with the fucking same type. And if you to get in contact leonardy say, we have an Email now info at the paradigm dot com. And he do it on Facebook the paradigm. They think that's it. Catch him.

Pat steward Nolan Jason J Facebook China Joe Rogan principal Mike Laghi Glenn cook assault Coney Randy guest Zwick Sarah Rodney anxiety Paul Fulton
Episode 87: Do as I say not as I do

The Canine Paradigm

1:21:24 hr | 1 year ago

Episode 87: Do as I say not as I do

"What's happening in the canine industry? For all the latest news views and expert opinions stay right here for the Canine Paradigm you'll hear from industry leaders experts doyennes of the industry learned Ed colleagues movers and Shakers and the odd randy guest get the latest insights and expert advice from both here and abroad from the people in the know now here your hosts Glenn Cook and Pat Steward. I'm lofty Fulton and I'm Outta here. Hey Glen yes some imaginings haven't gone tell me a found Jason Firmin's fine number no way we should bring him in safe. We should buy some yoga equipment of we've got to put this to rest once and for all the so many people harassing me Betty's website and on your side yeah let's ring these A._D._M.. Okay hang on a SEC drinking. I'm excited ally. Hey Jason Patricia uh-huh ringing to try and blossom Doug Equipment of you. What do you want? I Dunno some tug some leashes some some of that kind of stuff cannot do that over the phone. Might let's get down to the nitty gritty in the business. He have you got a website or not of course what of course interested and want to tell you about your immediate. Tell us what is your website. It is W._W._W.. DOT ON DOT com on in the W. A. Dot com you headed. Hey folks on Zwick Doug Quip Dot com where you can buy on when we go trying to head over there right now. Put yourself some tugs leashes. What else do you sell Jason? Ah Plenty of higest products Dogville equipment for mill anything any normal dog. I would wonder that's it Johnson Glen so you still a buffet boy <music>. Welcome back to the Cannon Paradigm. I'm your host pet. Stewart joined in-studio today by my co host Glenn Cook. Yes just us again today. Just us again. We've had <hes> quite a few interviews lately YEP head and Melanie last week and we head tonks tonks before before that <hes> Jeez did we get some feedback from taxes episode. Yeah I think because it was a different area that we don't really going to we haven't really had hunting <hes> like pure hunting. You know we had Pat Nolan Toko Bat retriever and haunting competition but yeah tonks is the first hunter that we've had on to talk about it. I was expecting it's not real hunting. You just insulted all the points and you know he made where he's doing it as a biological threat yeah removing vermin species yeah yeah so it's cool. I think it probably opened this up to a different network of people and I was a little bit wired about some negative feedback but we certainly didn't get any of that. I mean really it shouldn't be based on negative feedback because all the people who are worried about wildlife preservation main. That's effectively what he's doing. Yes he's removing species that are killing the wildlife that they're actually doing. I think people understood that official they must have because they wasn't any negative feedback. In fact it was overwhelmingly the other way it was all about support and appreciation for what he's doing and as this Greg pointed out and as I've said to a few other people he's the sort of guy who goes in and rescues Joey's and shelby gliders and wombats and has them running Randy's hails so he's predominantly conservation list and anyway. I don't have to sell it for him. We all know what he is yeah and then we had Melanie Benway room which was which she's the current prison of the A._p.. Looking eyes pay yeah that was good so we got some good feedback on that as well. I'M NOT GONNA lie. I'm fairly excited about conference. Yeah it may to yeah like I'm pretty excited about that. Whole trip like the fact that these the whole trip is going to be lost? You know like hanging out in Canada with Emmer and yeah you know got the seminar there and then we're going over to P._S._A.. And hanging out with Jerry at ten flat journey that isn't it crazy we we got to Canada and we're doing three seminar together. They're together in that way presenting different things on different days. I feel like doing the same thing together we'd have to practice. Serious dance moves to be added to it at the same time so I'm doing nape Hypo all theory the first day and then we'll do some practical work in that second day the dogs today Yep then you're GonNa do poppies that afternoon and Emma's organized a bunch of puppies for you to actually do hands on stuff and demonstrate and talk about Poppy Development Selection developments collection development element. Yeah I mean you setting up the future of your dogs with puppies and you know what I mean. It's a it's an element that people have gotta take seriously with it doesn't matter if you haven't got a puppy now you're gonNA get one in the future of your dog person. You'll get another dog and and it predominantly tells people had future-proof they dogs yep and then on the las doing the same work and knows works tall boys anything just any anything to do with saint so we're GonNa talk about the problems related around Saint Work Saint contamination a nation and <hes> setting up a pitcher for the dog so you know we're going to develop hall peach. It doesn't matter it wouldn't matter if you're going into law enforcement or if you're doing it for practical work such as noise works bond hunt or anything like that but it still falls ah amongst the same disciplines doctrines so we're doing that. We're doing probably remember. I didn't think we booked in yeah anyway. Because then we're out the next day or something anyway and they go to die die in Canada die in Canada aboard a chick shirt and kind of got a a beacon. No it's a blue jays. Okay Yep so I'm Canada Canada. Is it red shirt all year Canada Pasta. I got dressed the bits blue. It's need have to have some Winnie Blues blue on that. We're in a strike but I've got a red dress up. Yeah that's right. Oh I got dressed the other day and I looked at myself in Canada. Oh Canada yeah I'm ready so then going to to Pennsylvania to hang out with Sean Janet Edwards for a few days shoney's just broken his foot and can you believe that. How bad does it look? It's pretty bad Brian. It's pretty fucked up. Won't how did it like. I know he did it at Jujitsu. I don't know how he did someone. You told me yeah so he was performing Toke technique where he was using his toe to choke another man unconscious he just uses the toy josh uses the big toe and he kind of got tangled he still put them in on on conscious. The demand still went to sleep but but in doing so he fractured his tie wow yeah I made that up. I was gonna say that sounds totally bullshit that you don't know the toe technique. Not J told it to me well. You weren't I guess on Yes. I'm better than you. I'm better at Jiu Jitsu. Well considering rip now at ranks me yeah full drops three drops on these two stroke the thing let you another little secret with four year old surgery to ten lessons. They get distraught. I watched the when I go to when I go to training the kids are on before we are and all I do is I mean they do techniques. I mean they roll with each other and so forth that they spend most of the time running ramping poison bowl and <hes> you know like these people just leaving bowls at Santa I kind of laughed because a says the same thing they do a forty five minute class. I do a thirty minute warm up and then they practice like a double legacy leg like a sweep and then that's it and then they play toys but the other today we're at this birthday party and he cracks sheets body and put him on his ass in an instant. Oh Wow and I was running over like I'm so mad but also proud -gratulations. That was a really good move by you also know that do that but yeah so he's he's typically coming along. We should probably talk about some stuff. We Sean and Janet you're going to say judge. You're GonNa continue your friendship on at their trawl on a Decoy Yup and we'd just after the Saturday. That's Kinda cool. Isn't it yeah it's my it's GonNa be fun and then we're out at like zero dot hundred zero dot com to icy pay yeah we landy. We're going to have to trip through a dark house and YEP grabble list often run two hours to the airport what and then fly over the Colorado Springs. Yeah where we land in. I think we invent Denver Yeah in Denver and then we need someone to pick us out from Denver and get us to Colorado. We organize that I think people are fighting over picking us up at the mind. Well well yeah. Maybe maybe you go with one. I'll go oh the other well. There's plenty of go around it then I say you we are the official podcast not just to Jonah's the inviting people back to the room. We'll come back to our room. We go mcfun's. Wasn't it random we were doing it last year. In entity people banging on the door and people will just walk any well. What's good this year? Is We have a dedicated spice yesterday of it like being in your room and hearing people building and fighting and opening not that that'll probably change that'll probably happening. Yep Literally really did happen and people were in the toilet washing the like the editing for that was just crazy to some of the sheet that was going on there and hopefully we'll be interviewing all the speakers which should be super exciting isn't very interesting papal absolutely including our own shady eighty buddy shady video. We need to get back on yeah yeah. We're talking about the other day. <hes> go to come up with a topic well. I think we should have birdie regularly on the show. I think <hes> you know like at least once a quarter having your own doing being something because well actually. She's GonNa have to fill in for me. 'cause you're going to B._Y._U.. Yeah maybe why Houston Yeah for a couple of weeks yep so betty. If you're listening you'll get your l.. Preferred coast. You'd get in cold back up to the plate. It's it so yeah yeah then we're at is you pay and then we're done. Come Yep says long trip. Yes it is long trip. Hey some exciting happened last night. I go talk about it. Okay jazz past the third leg of the SA three wow yes so. She clocked the whole sport so she's done. It not full this compound anyway. There's still the drought events amazing <hes> Congratulations Jessie. J's pants yeah. Can you believe that shit yeah so the weights the the tests that people read and say is on possible. She's Donald. She's Pasta three times yeah. She's got the title wow okay Sanchez. You gotta understand what a big deal that he's like that is a super hard test is thousands and thousands of people who flunk out on the level one spectacularly including myself at one time Yup and she's gotten in through she smashed through two legs to like it was nothing and then the same with the level three just amazing and it's interesting. She sent me the videos because I didn't Melvin while they're down there. It's a fucking hod test but also what she did. A lot of the way through wrote was very clever like you know there's distractions Roy at a also Brenton was distracted and he's walking around eight and a bag of chips and during the like liberty period he just happened to drop the bag of chips on the floor where the DOCO gone and potentially get to the beach so jazz casually strolls over picks up the bag and starts Eytan him like just little handle things that like that he's that's that's hardly gangster yeah and then he sat down in in a chair and was kind of calling the dog over to come sit in his lap. Find that Brenton fucked jazz went over and sat news lap blocking the dog so the dog couldn't jump in his lap back that is genius and that's what it takes yeah that's right wouldn't that's part of the gaming the sport yeah so anyway massive congratulations to jazz like literally the first person in the world to do like it's an emerging sport you know those levels of only been around for a few months but she's the first person to get through and like I'm white hazard a AH guess at Sci. He's probably going to be the only person for fucking long time. I can't imagine anybody else's going to manage to smash through well. It's relatively new and a main people have sort of working they y rant at an and Maine jazz got Liza focus when she's working on a main. Just we talk about hot and sold in this show Lot Jessica it a lot of it. <hes> you know she puts in a hundred and ten percent what she does yeah even the why she ran the seminar Dan he would die like all the preparation all the paperwork it was probably one of the best managed and administrated seminars main to for a long time yet <hes> she had everything ready all the gear ready. All the timings were on time. You know I mean that's her army background in a disciplined but just a person anyway I mean she's. She's very very well structured and set up like that yeah. I guess of anything that you you guys do well in the army. It's it's learning good routines. Yeah Structure Yeah structure but you know I'm just super proud of. I absolutely think that for anybody listening if you're interested in doing J._C.. I see and you want to get someone out to help with your club will run a like a little seminar or whatever she's the one. She is the most successful competitor in that in the world yes. There's no one you know like she's obviously been through the NATO schools like she's learned Schicktanz from Bot. She's sort of understudied may for a long time she she's learned from Jay a lot. She's fucking rounded nose shit yeah but if you're interested in jazz say they literally isn't a person who has outperformed her in the. Sport including j the Guy who made the sport and including me who before May I mean I got this. I got one leg that the two tried for the one a was the first person that will ever get this spring poll title big big deal big deal and people are away just like him pay say turns out in Jesse. The dog has the todd does not the person and the dog team <hes> so since my dog is GonNa be in America November November when they're having their like nationals if anybody wants to continue his journey on the springtime because he'll be available yeah and the million aids one who win whatever you wherever they yeah well. I can't say say that long pretty much the day last night. Oh this morning that I'm going to into the PSI nationals ow Yep so I've got to stop the ridiculous logistics train of all of that he's had he's rabies vaccination. He's got his test back so go. He can re enter Australia. After the twentieth of January. You're going to be without little little precious baby REMCO. What's he's full acronym? It's sweet precious twenty little baby room Detroit Yeah. We were doing a lot out of thinking and deciding about these last couple of days because I'm kind of getting down to the wire where I have to book the fought it because I'm doing that. I'm doing the seminar in Texas. I still haven't booked my my thoughts yet. So that's the last weekend deals wiggins will be losing wiggins. It is and you know get were expensive every day like I have got to do this but then what flights Boca relevant to whether I take the dog on right and so there's all logistics as well yeah so then last week ago the blood a test back saying like yeah this is when he can come back in and so I'm like okay well now. I have to decide like it was. I was almost half hoping that he did the vaccination didn't take and so then I was like oh well like that. That's all but now I have to say. You're on the hook yeah yeah so now we've got the had little pros and cons column and funniest I like what are you gonNA do without him. Was that was actually one that I had in the cons are miss my precious little dog but I'd managed to turn that into a pro because we can never go away or anything I have a Christmas because you go as a book that never booking me and and so it's always like you know. What do I do this dog? We go anywhere. That's not dog friendly over Christmas. Go Away so mad booked over Christmas so I'm GonNa dump him on. Sean and join can have over Christmas. I said I'll be the first time fucking ever forever that I've had no dog Valerie but she could save anybody. That's not an issue to stay with. My parents and I actually hate going white Christmas anyway which is good for me because I hate it. I those crowds. I hate waiting in lines. I'm in patient like that. I'd like to go away when all the kids are back at school. <hes> yeah you may. That's just place yeah yeah I'd have to white identity is accused of go diving. Let me say it on the spot or anything. Just walk down to the boat and jump on running at you go and yet we're not gonNA go anywhere. I mean like just to go to a friend's place for a couple of having like that. Don't have to worry about the dog yeah so yeah. That's happening. <hes> I've got to start the logistics train behind that messaging people trying to figure out how the FAULK get my dog from Houston finished you that seminar then have to get him from Houston to New Jersey and I was like oh Dr Driving Melbourne's a twenty four it was like okay well well. Maybe I'll fly and now I have to figure out how to do that and Blah Blah Blah's a huge logistics trying behind it all and then that jazz sports on expensive well. It's it's going to be the money. Involved is embarrassingly lodge by it's kind of a dream to do. You have the opportunity to see anyone ever get to do it once. Why not try? It's GONNA cost a huge amount of money. It's a huge dent. I have the opportunity to the May never have that opportunity again. <hes> there's a lot of stars have to align like you have to qualify facade as yeah we might not qualify next year and you just don't know what's happening with life and work and Blah Blah Blah so it's possible this year. It's going to be very expensive and logistically difficult but I've decided yet fuck it. I'm GonNa do it cool yeah and it. It's a bit annoying. I'll be with but he's a cool story. Yeah it is yeah if anybody does any corporate sponsors out there that room I I'll wear a tee shirt with your logo. I was actually thinking at the nationals. They have a walkout song. I was thinking about like raffling off auctioning off nut raffling auctioning the someone can choose my workouts because I can imagine song which is something ridiculous and embarrassing Ed so Jason Feminine Well Whoever's got the money compared to the the highest bidder gets to choose my workouts on that might be a way of recovering the cost but yeah so anyway that that's happening so josh comedown alive the flesh book through the next couple of days hopefully by the time you're hearing this YEP if lot should be booked of Jason Furman shows your walk out song. It'd be something like what what in the butt gun hope that up if opponents enough money that's what they so. That's what's happening in my life. We should probably talk about some stuff. We're GONNA talk about yeah. which was the thread read the standard on the forum? There was a cool post hang on my facebooks now going to hear these so Kevin d what says name one thing you do that you tell your clients not to do and I saw that Polish like I got the notification vacation I I call them in and immediately sort of tracking some of the pause and it's interesting I think it's cool like you know most people listening to US professional China's or enthusiasts at the minimum yeah and I think it's an interesting thing that people will save us is what they do and I read a lot of the comments and I thought it'd be cool for us to talk about. I was the first comment and I know myself. It's something you can talk about for sure is that I wrote that. I tell people not to compare themselves to other people on facebook. That's a good one yeah they really early is a good one and I find myself doing that. All the time. especially I have to make a conscious effort not to especially when I get a dope for myself like I see other people doing great work and I can appreciate all of that. I can look at their great work and say you know you're doing a great job in that Gaba. That's different to what I'm doing but what I find difficult was there's numerous people I know and follow online that got poppies at the same time as me and and was watching their journey with the puppy online and seeing what they post and how they posted two and then comparing that to my own dog and the trajectory he was on <hes> and I just find myself I found myself so many times getting frustrated at how little he could do because I was building power and as I constantly if if you've ever been to a seminar oh I've taught the thing carry on about the most is building ignition and not bothering to teach the dog anything until the dog responds to its reinforces the way that you want so there's a long time before my yoga do anything on the show one day. I'm GonNa unapplied Newport bingoed I just they were the check box. Take got into all but so for me watching other people and their doggies you know poppy that is the same age as mine is healing at six months and motto. How does Bailey knows his name? It's six months. Let alone healing. He's he's. He's dragging me down the straight. I haven't told him a single thing. I remember when I had to teach you owes starting to do knows works and tracking and I was like okay well now to start the track anita down so that was the I like actual monkey drove but I totally because like I need that was the first thing that anybody would look at and go okay taught the dog something everything else was shaping and building power in the dog and for me it was really difficult and very frustrating to be watching all the people training writing the dog and they're in a different system and they're on a different path. They're on a different trajectory and they want to do different things with their dog so they're not Roy and I'm not wrong they something to say about that because sometimes of saint people doing things with young puppies like putting a lot of pressure on them very early only to break them as adults yeah yeah and that's that's one of the things where I guess when you're comparing yourself to others and worrying about that like the system that way working in and you're working on predominantly he's working long judy. If the Dalton I like as you say building that's right building outing hope building power and having it everlasting so the dog carries that flying with him for the rest of his life lock it only grows and grows and grows within the dog whereas other dogs they get and now insult Michael Jackson but it's like Michael Jackson Syndrome where it's too much pressure as little as a a young infant child okay only two as an adult have detrimentally affect them yeah and I've seen that with in the early days when we were I day there was a guy at one about clubs and he had a six month old Roddy who's doing full home box and releases and everything like that and everyone was really impressed by the pressure manning and Manning manning on the dog on these two year old frame to for to have a complete adverse effect on the dog yet and I was the same I was very frustrated and jealous and everything like that you know like old is egotistical. Statistical things started to hit me in the fields and I'm thinking like I've got someone who's GonNa outshine me because I was the golden child back then. I'm thinking you know this is not fair. It's like you know they've got this awesome dog. That's going to be the poster child at two years old. That dog was just flat yeah yeah well the it doesn't always happen like that. You know with that type of ongoing pressure yeah. Some people are really good at managing poppies and never overpay them impeaching him to the limit of what they ready for and getting really consults on facebook all the time and that's why I said that I told you we don't compete on facebook because you're saying first of all you just seeing a snapshot but you saying a day. That's gone right yeah but also we say it's so much watches you see awesome little poppies doing loads of cool little things but we seldom say that dog yep we say the puppy and we seldom say videos of that say all the adult dog campaigning which is why another reason why I like. My dog has his own instagram program. I think that's the golden message of this yeah. This podcast pat is done. Compare yourself to others because it really is shit show for anybody in any way shape or form whether it's beauty or dog training or fitness or whatever it is because it Mike you fundamentally unhappy yeah like everybody's on everybody's on a different journey and Navias even if you're competing against somebody in the same sport at the same level you've had different trajectories different positive because you have different dogs yep dogs came from different different braids or different bloodlines or different rising. There's loads of different things that could go into it so your journey to your sport is individual and that's why I'm really against methods. I don't want it like this is not how I teach a doctor. He'll there is you'll never catch me saying for like a competition dog anyway. This is the technique to teach a dog to heel or this is the technique digital. I don't have a technique I every dog is different than young symbols and that's just behavioral science. y'All think changes. There's about that but the actual way I'm GonNa do it. He's GonNa vary dog to dog and how long it's GonNa take it has to yeah and I think when you you can probably have a great system that's fluid and feats ninety percent of dogs but there's going to be that ten percent that don't fit into it and at that point you have to be adaptable and good China's but for me to go back to my original point was observing other people on facebook. It was really difficult for me than to be like fuck I want to be able to do that and then especially the as a professional dog trainer and someone who talks game about the capability and skill doing it to have a six month old ugly kander sheet onto onto thing was problematic and difficult because people like hey I thought you would you would you know to shave things through the stalled and here we are nearly three light and I'm super happy with how everything's GonNa love the dog and we're recording right. Yeah that's right. It's all worked but it was very difficult and I am constantly telling my own clients not to compare themselves is to video as I say on facebook especially you know no one puts out the bad footage and and I'll tell you what you do say. He's put up the bad for you say like he's the whole session uncut well. That's one of the best sessions I've ever had. I can fuck until you that when people guy lack here it is roaring unedited. That's because that version they've got one hundred roaring on edited fucking sessions they filmed and the one they put out these minimally things went wrong like the best version of how it went down <hes> I put a video of my dog on the meal getting on like superpower fleet getting on turning around doing positions running getting off doing all this kind of stuff now posted that and people like all holy Shit and then I realized this was an unfair thing to do because I posted did like a fifty second video of what was a seven minute training session and so I put up next to it I put up the video of where he flew off the back of the mill because he and then the next one where he turned around and I told him Danny as he was getting on and he he then had to backpedal backpedal backpedal fast enough while he was in a day on couldn't do it fell off got frustrated may beat me and go back on right so posted that she mistakes yeah because that's training yeah and but even me there's days where it goes totally wrong and I'm like off glad no on what that and so everybody is on their own journey and I feel like when you compare yourself like a watch other people's videos on facebook or instagram whatever I watched them yeah when I'm to take from them what I can and I enjoy it and I think wow you're on the right track YEP but. So you just don't know the circumstances that laid out to that I mean a couple of facebook groups at the moment that you know real precision by selected down perfect and people compare about like all the front was exactly correct and like could give two shits about that stuff. I care that my dog doc does the behavior powerfully and under extreme conditions. That's what I'm that's for me. That's where I like my focus whether the the down is perfectly straight fast <hes> because that's money points right holding like that's a half point or one point if the Dow is fast rather than a little bit slow by holding the down is all your points right so like I would rather dog due to behavior powerfully and notice pretty but do it with heart and soul and stay in the behavior in spite of whatever is is trying to bring him out of the behavior rather than do it beautifully and perfectly but have a tenuous hold on that behavior that could be damaged in a happy right so for me. That's why I've focused because you break down. You lose all you down points. No matter how nice you went into it they go on whereas if they if it's not so pretty going in but it holds you get in a lot more points than zero so for me. That was what I wrote on the Don. Compare yourself to people on facebook despite I've made doing it all the time and I try to tell my clients that all the time you aw I say a and even in real life. I've got clients. All I look. I say these people walking dogs they having dead do it no problem and why can't why are you insisting that I only WanNa my dogs at a time because you have these two. Does they have those two dogs. You have but these two does there too fucking different sets of dogs like they need different different attention so you that's my story I got jacked up the other day from someone asking why put videos dogs up online why do stupid tricks at my Frenchies and not show she with Randy all the time and I just said give a fuck shit. It's my personal US did my training routine is my outlet and it's not always on show. I didn't give a fuck about putting things online <hes> mustard sometimes I do. I said if the moment catches me and I want to do it but why do I have to fucking demonstrate. What do I do with my dog? <hes> I'm not really trying to attract customers and trying to sell my business so I'm busy doing what I'm doing so actually got mad when the person told me what I was saying and and deleted them because I just fuck you. I WANNA leave an echo. I don't want any opinions different to mind. You know like we had it. We having an ongoing argument and I said like I was saying Oh you know you look stupid. What you're during the French bulldogs like why you know you've got a serious dog white showing images of that and I said but what do I have to fall like what does it mean to you like what's it going to achieve? What's IT GONNA get me and I said well? It just looks silly. You don't look like you're serious competitor all that year tight the training seriously and I thought well maybe to some people but I'm happy doing what I'm doing. <hes> <hes> that's interesting. I was jacked at the time I must admit pretty flamed up but yeah fuck you random person. Did you suddenly go out there and trying to not the younger may the more egotistical may would have done it like I would have beat my chest in gone crazy and just look always dangerously obsessed with training when I was younger Guy <hes> to the point where it caused problems in my marriage and everything because that's all I did try and try and try and try and try and and it was a manic obsession and that's all I did. I didn't go anywhere didn't have holidays. All I did was trying the dog and I hung out with training people and just talk training all the time and I still love. It and I still enjoy it but I'm never gonNA bay. I'm never going to get back to that point again and I mean and you don't I may not know you love it and you'll very enthusiastic in your passion is in it but you not crazy obsessed by where you don't be a good father Tia Cayden yeah. It'd be an attentive husband to your wife and things things like that like I'd all of those things I wasn't doing that well. I wasn't being a good friend. I wouldn't return phone calls to people because my only friends with my dog willed friends. <hes> we now have a variation of life. I do things that I find also important Horton and fit things in the make sense man I mean I love hanging out with randy in doing random shit with him but it's my personal time so fuck you that's interesting point. There really was look I lost costed pretty intensely at the time because it was it became a trade off of insults at the time and I mean and that's what I wouldn't recommend people do as well if we're going to say. What would I tell my clients not to do? Okay <hes> something you just touched on. Something are noticed of changed in myself is it's a weird one right in that for a long time. I wore the same sort of dog training clothes. All the time something you have changed recently only in the law so to six months is sort of changing the way for me. It was a psychological the logical thing and he was like okay like gnome not training dogs at the moment like I'm not hands on dogs like an ADO loads of Scott Coles at the moment and you know if you want to do one of those just jump on my website I saw you wear shirt and everything renewed Yay just normal close what I would normally way like you know like you have a more professional toya when you're doing consulting well and you know for most of my life like that was when aware normal 'cause that's like what I don't wear my like. Hi Jack wrote Kim Jae Pants and my my shirt my dog training shirt for years. I was just doing that and then I realize though was never not working always like in this work mode yep where it's like like the dog wearing a caller yeah yeah that's right. That's exactly right it was always like in dog training mode and northern like hey I'm at home with the family mode and the big difference for me as actually being that at the moment because of these podcast and so I am so so lucky that have changed. I have now but I get loads of like you can say my phone here. In front of us is going off nonstop pry and it's people sending me videos and asking questions and that kind of thing and I'm usually as much as I can get to those things but things get get buried and I. I admit sometimes people right because you know I had a while ago say hey can. I send you video as boarding applying and I'm like yeah cool. I'll probably send it through and I didn't get it before I put my phone on aircraft mode and then when I get off the plane sixteen hours later it's got forty messages in that time and he's one that had been sent. I is now forty missions down enough ago at that point that he was sending this video and I didn't. I didn't send back got upset and I was like I'm sorry that's fuck. I just forgot like it's buried at Forty magazine in that time charging import. He's a client okay okay so like you know. I'm happy to do that kind of stuff with people about for me like a realized in the closes just one thing of it. It's not a big deal but it just became like I need to delineate work hours yeah because we're in dog training when you work for yourself. I you know I don't work for anybody. I'm one man show other than this and we do this together but even then this is still dog training time yeah like ah I needed to set work Alice's what I realized I needed to do. <hes> because what I found was I was with my friends and stuff and something of really being concentrating on doing these she is being with the people that I'm with you being present yeah and and like ah you know I have loads of friends all over the world and I enjoyed interact with them but it's not fair that I get. I give my attention to someone instantly looking at your phone yeah when I'm with people that I would rather be with like while. I'm physically president so that's why even now when during the podcast I turn my phone upside down so comp distract me on the floor. Yes I'm GonNa Beep beep enemy and its that's went astray in time and then when I'm in bed at night in America wakes up and then that starts well so actually I've set myself off work hours and ny sort of put only put on my work clothes during those work allies and it's been really good for my own mental health like I'm very happy doing that and I don't feel like I'm not pat who is a dog trainer and constantly's wearing clothes. What is the dog slobber on and then I go academy and go train? Dogs put on those clothes and I go do that and I come home and I take those off. Put on all the clothes and it's not important like it's not that I'm trying to look fancy. It's just that I it's a it's a very physical queue in exactly exactly the same way. It's perfect as you point out like I do these puppies. When I get a puppy I take the caller off okay now? The restaurant is open your work and I put the call back on okay. No more hope like don't get involved in that take but so for my cell phones now I will do the same thing like where it's like. Okay like I'm on work time and I don't care like if I'm like no no. This is not work time. I've set my own hours. I have my own working hours and the irregular because I'm dealing people all over the world but I'm not answering your questions while I'm hanging out with my kid like that ain't happening and I'm not even GonNa read the messages Yup and then when it's work time okay open the phone I I like boom answer. All these questions and people haven't had a single person and so I've been really back to pay fast anymore but haven't had a single person complained about. I think they've wanted to stand. I think people are pretty good about that and but I don't mind I'm not saying message me people. I'm just saying that I may not get back to you. It might be fucking ages before I do like doc and I'm working through the list when I get time open it up and I m answering and I don't want to seem like a like a Douche yeah like it's not like it but we're just very fortunate we have ten thousand people listening to the pocock around the world and a lot of them. One is questions and with fortunate. It's given me huge work. Opportunities had an amazing year traveling around meeting people talking to people interacting with people post this morning with someone asked you know what's the best seminar that that you've been to people commenting my name and talking about what a good on the head and saying they're going to be in Canada which is amazing life very good at warms. The cockles of my hot like Oh strache grade showed up at a show that to people ages that posting ever get deleted by accident here. Let me show everyone so it's great but you just gotTa have a work life balance and that's one way that I have found to do it in extending what you were saying before. I think that's one of the predominant messages that I would give to people clients friends family. You know don't late something. That's important kill something more important yeah. I think that there is a life at the dog training. Don't training's important. It's fun but it's not the only thing to life <hes> you know. I think that what you've got to do is is <hes> it's like kids who play video games all the time. They get stuck in one mindset. You know they'd be become so obsessed by virtual world. They forget about the rest of the world but you know dog. Training is a healthy sport. I mean you do get out in wide open spaces. You get out in nature and you get to hang out with your dog and it's Nice when you can share that with friends and and family that ob dog orientated and do like that sort of thing all I'm saying is it shouldn't just past the threshold of being unhealthy. I guess that's the message you know all the waffle of just talked about Oh. I remember what I was getting talk about. Show so what I've done recently is changed my phone to that night shift mode all yes that is that's. That's been life changing for me last week because so don't get any notifications like nine thirty. The Blue Light comes out of my find it goes to these we'd Yellow Cala. It doesn't K._p.. Awake Yup and doesn't matter what you do you can text me. Call me whatever I you can set phone numbers that come through that so like giant you. She calls me then it'll ring yet but she's usually sitting right next to me so that I that's not a concern it would be weird and so it's been great and so I get the notifications and I get them in the morning. Yes usually wakes up at like six. I get up at five and I've got that our to to go through stuff like upset that as a working out for myself replied all the things that came through during the not yet but I'm not texting at two in the morning I found myself. Doing you know you get up to go the bathroom and all just check because I don't WanNa face that in the morning or whatever yeah I've cut that shit look I just stimulate you and then you can't get back to sleep but so now it's not not like I can doesn't even appear on my phone it until it till five o'clock when it then I get older notifications but even so now even if I try and cheat it myself and I'm like Oh just have a quick look Odessa. It is nothing they'd say. Yeah doesn't doesn't produce anything <hes> that's. It's been really good. I recommend that to people if you're like me and you find that you never switching off you constantly involved in one way or another yeah okay. What are some of the other ones that people are not? It's your turn now because you didn't come it did did you. What did you say I talked about? Not Ruining your family know on like that. You told clients guy well in that aspect if we're talking about an official dog related one says name one thing you do that you till your clients not to do okay yeah well. I tell people not to raise a pet people. I'm talking nonce more people. Tell people not to raise the dog the same way I'm doing it because it's it wont work for them. The way that what I will tolerate and what I will allow my dog to-do is not effective in a family Heim effectively randy brand riot for twelve months. You know he wasn't the dog that knew how to heal and Seton Dole as fancy skills as a young puppy he ran riot. I spent the time the same way you did taking him. Have it have mental and physical toughness to traverse items to experience life to get out there to be balding adventurous to smash through things. which is I do encourage people to do all of that with their dog but to a file Lisa level? Able to encourage them to start teaching elementary skills with the dogs like sitting and dropping and recalling and social walking which is walking Osler on the lady Cetera et Cetera the reason for that as I've outlined before is if they raise the dog the way I will have a wall dog in the hands and Cape it by the time it gets to twelve months. It'll be too wild but I want that in my working dogs I mean even my French bulldogs. I let them do the same sort of thing I mean these Assisi but I mean ladybugs just wild. She loves crashing thrashing around in things you know like I'll take her out now into India A._T._F.. And she'll go bald out there with a room full of fifteen people in scaling around the room couldn't give a shit about anything that's going on but that's the way I like to raise my dogs and I like them to be as bold and as adventures as I possibly can but as I said before family home that will that weight loss yup you'll find instead of joy and celebration you'll find teas and definitely unhappiness with those taught the dogs. I'll write the kids backs. They'll a jump alive the price they'll just turn the place into my him. I mean effectively randy comes inside. He's just a bomb you know he is controllable. Don't get me wrong. I mean a paint randy out like he's this cyclone of destruction. He's not he is controllable when he does house listen to me but he's just super exuberant all the time and I created that that's what I wanted him to be like. <hes> so Kline stokes not yeah Yep yeah. I think that's kind of been the same as you go through this whole pose oh so yeah there's a few people do as I say don't do as I do and I think really what I liked about these policies that there's a few people sort of add meeting that they used double commands and that kind of thing but what I enjoyed was analyzing analyzing the idea that when you know the reason for the rules you know when it's okay to break those rules yup so I feel like as dog trainers we constantly telling people you must do this. You must do this. You must do this because because few to understand why you must do all these things. I'm saying is literally years of studying and exactly so I can't. There's no way you can fully understand why I'm saying do all these things but just do them well. We also have aimed the public blake. I mean that's your job. Your your effectively gathering daughter on what's causing misery and mayhem in the in the average home yeah and that's you know that's predominantly ninety five percent of your clientele yeah. There's comments in he people all saying like you know. I told people to create training dogs at the dogs must sleep in and cry. Meanwhile my dogs tucked in the bed with me but it's fine because you know how to manage that fill like eight and it's one of the reasons I had a really good mentor in the army that was obsessed with not obsessed but he forced us to do a lot of reading on regulations and he made me do so. I did the most of wack o'clock's employment. Whatever you call it like the training so I could perform all the duties as of a like Yo you'll company clock and he made me do all that and in time with it was meant to be down Tom Arrest time by and I would never gonNA use those skills based like I need you to understand the process because as you progress through the ranks when you start allocating work look to your clocks you need to know how and why it takes them the time that it does and he was he was very good at running range practices like shooting scenarios and that kind of thing that would to the edge of what is legal and yeah and to maximize the benefit from training Yup and he was like you have to understand why old as procedures are in place on? It's not good enough you at your level to understand that there are procedures. You have to understand why every single one of them is zien place. So you know which ones you can break right and I think that's the that's what comes down to most of us as Doug China's when we're giving you know very specific advice to people and I I do the same thing I really specific advice to people I encourage everybody. Cry Trying to and I talk about how the dogs a lot like. I sold the pizza that sell the story. Everybody sells all the dog loves crite Luke. It's he's Happy Little Dan. My dogs probably in the crate right now knowing full well. My dogs asleep warnings back on the catch because he doesn't mind the quiet. It's not like it's the he would much rather the beyond the cat she's very happy in and cry and now with my dogs at my personal dogs at the level they're at Val sleeps in rips room with him and remmy sleeps on the couch downstairs like they can go wherever they wanted to. Block the hassle anyway that they've got a flap Doug door they can come and go as they want Yup. It's you know she's five and he's nearly three like it's not it's like in the time it's taken and when I get when I have someone else's dog or have a new dog into the system that resets that reboots the whole thing everybody goes backing. They cried at night. Everybody's ladies back to the rules as I would explain to the client because that dog has to learn the system Yup but what I have enjoyed reading this is just saying people talking about like all the outrageous things sleep with my dog any always be consisted that also me when my dog breaks place yeah no worries Bun you do learn that like it's it's funny stuff right but I feel like the reason we get away with that as because we understand the the prepared to leave with it yeah and we're not going to destroy that dog for the Tiniest Raisin Yeah. That's the problem with when you're dealing with outside public is that the dog's life is on his breath sometimes yeah well so as I say I feel like this whole post a really enjoyed reading it. <hes> is that and I recommend if you're not in the discussion group. We have the Canine Paradigm Discussion Group getting the answer the question you jokes would there's one question barrier to entry Pallini body answers it. Just answer it yeah. What's the question is like? How did you hear about the podcast had to hear about the podcast dot says on just wrought something yeah because I actually have deleted people for not answering that question? Yes I have had days yeah. No we'll think well if I mean one. Go Fuck if someone's just ask you to post the video already do it God that's when you just go in there and go on and deleting rampage. It wasn't effect that they asked me do it was the disdain through the comments that caused me to blow my top. Ah I just felt that the whole invasive questions was a bit perverse for my liking and I just felt a bit outraged by I've got to admit outright. That doesn't happen often these days. I don't really let people push my buttons too much but that did push my buttons here it it did it frustrated but as saying what I think the whole post getting there and have a rate of it it could really be distilled down to another question would be what are some some of the things that you understand the why not just the how so you don't have to actually worry about the how because you understand the why and you meet a guy that in another way <hes> I feel like that is really what that whole threat almost everybody in that secretly admitting into doing all these things the reason that they get away with that and have well trained vote bill behaved dogs or dogs at fit. They lost all perfectly or whatever well maybe that maybe they just go fucking dogs and they're like I don't care but is because you understand. There's a reason season that we do this in every in dog training the reason that we do everything I'll tell you my reason because it's fun no but I mean like every technique everything you do with everything that you do the dog every to raise this technique. Oh I have of loading cliquot is an exact exact reason I do that. That's not that it needs to be done exactly that way. It means that if you can get to the same end point Voi- any other technique many roads lead to Rome yeah then you would so truth be told even. I don't do it the way that I exactly teach. Each people had to do it because I'm I'm willing to skip ahead to skip the retain sometimes that's right and so I feel like that whole post is just people talking about like Oh yeah. I I let my dogs getaway trading it. Yeah I'd reading could or anything else. It's Piss off. Piss me off. Really I'm at peace with a lot of things at the moment which is quite good yeah. I am yeah this that one was it was funny. I was not long listening to a podcast that Chad and jaded we did together when they came back on <hes> Chad showed something to talk about and they were talking about people putting their money where their mouth is basically and putting the videos up. I kind of thought to myself. Maybe I should would do the odd video here and they're just doing stuff and I thought why why now like it's people going to say it and think Oh that's all you know what are you trying to do and then I sort of relaxed from it and then I got that message from that person and just finally really got bad but yeah I've settled down a bet it now okay yeah you wouldn't think so because I'm just I'm relieving the memory in reliving the role feeling of it all but it did get enrolled time like like I threw my phone on the floor and pranced around the house like an angry lion fur wall and rolled went out and thought the audacity of it all but anyway never my my favorite covet. I've recovered. I'm I've got myself back in his in-place. What else was going on? What else are we going to that post so there's an interesting one that people talk about in here is a recurring theme is leading dogs rushed through thresholds which is an interesting one right in that? That's really a <hes> from all running through the front door. Yeah why people are so bothered about it yeah. I couldn't give a shit yeah I used to. It's a bit of a draconian law where people twenty thirty years ago this whole dominance theory was all done I may we talked about in urban. Myths people were really getting anti-bat that whole process of all if you let your dog around through the door it's GonNa dominate you and then you know even in that one you saying well you know what a bad of. It's an archway all I mean and <music> anything does the dog walk along any sort of obstruction and think oh my God you know that this is my chance to ruin your life and takeover and rule the world. I think that's the more you look into that the more ridiculous it just seems that dog is is just excited. It's just bad behavior is bad manners. That's all it is but if you don't care about it it's nothing it's just the dog excited to get back into a time yeah. That's all is the dogs thinking Oh. This is my place where my baby's my toys R.. My water is reinforcements. Osman's happen. Good Times happened there. Yeah I play with you in the lounge room. You know it's just thought projecting of things they enjoy doing. It's no different than when you are out for a period of time you get home. You think Oh glad to be home account white to get inside and you get inside didn't throw you back down and all your wallet down and whatever and you you gone lie on the couch all gone read your emails gone. Do whatever you want to do work at new G._M.. Or whatever you know I mean you just excited to be back in your last so to speak <hes>. Why would it be any different when it gets back home starts racing to get back in thinking cool? You know back back to my place. It's not thinking to itself. You know like I'm GONNA plot world domination as soon as I get through that doorway in front of you yeah dickey's but it is advised people give because it's a management management tool and so you know like it when people have an unruly dog. That's all over the place then I. I certainly have told them hey make him see that door or and it's not that hand to that. I mean to say to him. Put your dog on late and teach you dog proper loose salacious walking techniques. Yeah I take you dog not to pull in the late tastes them that it is against the law to make that laid Goto yeah but some people and some people in some dogs alike need better direction than that or not Benadryl and more focused direction. I don't have any deep argument with that whatsoever and you're right because what you tell Mr Mrs Smith to do with their dog is entirely different than what you'll let. Sports people do adults well but not even that just the way the dog Brian looks like you know back to the balks intake that one on your list Bingo just speaking on that. Do you know that I was going through the stats. The other day Larry and then the bulks are the three most downloaded chose yeah yeah Larry bought brought in Minnesota Larry Crane box. I almost wanted to late that books episode. We've done one in Patriot's vision patron yeah because there's holes in that is holes in that show that I didn't think would would people would interpret it in a particular way Yup but the Bible mentions of the box well yeah that by the Patriots won it makes up for the errors of the first yeah not that I think that there's glaring errors in the first but some people interpreted things will actually see this stopped housing to what I was gonNA say. Is that a lot of people then say Whoa I don't WanNA use the the Washer in the box so that the article and they get great results. I'm like that's fine like some fat. labradors will keep their head in a box and that's that's as specific fica behavior as the happy with but I've seen in a particular amount was or of these counties as well like that's not specific enough for me keeping my hating boxes not specific enough behavior that is too loose a criteria on the get frustrated and Boise and so out of the box coach then those same dogs when you got a Cadillac get the article that does like okay. This is specific enough. I'm happy with that and that's what I mean like some people when like for me I don't want my dogs running out into the street and I can explain to people when you open the door. The Lido grown out in the street <hes> black and just have your dog white politely to be told to go out not even politely. One of my dog stands a balking at me furiously. That's highly polite but she knows she conscious run out there without permission but for some people that's not clear enough instruction tha that's when I find myself saying to people ok like Yoga will see it right here right. You must do exactly this and for some dogs they need that very clear instruction for some people they need that I do we all interpret things differently and this certainly one thing that a fan in thirty years of offsetting people's living rooms and listening to them or actually talking to them is that the interpretation skills some people <hes> y off tangent than what you expected <hes> and and that's not a bad thing we're all different we all interpret differently. Some people are very academic some people more tactile and you need to have that skill set as an instructor Deci whom I'm dealing with and what message do I really need to give this person to fulfil their needs <hes> yeah yeah I also also teach people not to let the dog jump on paper but mottos jumble of everybody yeah again. You're not dealing with dogs that you're GONNA cost away. Boop behavior managed that like someone knocking on my door is a market to my does come on to my does it means run outside as fast as you can because every time that every like if they're chilling in the house are they gonna get excited bus oncoming and they're gonNA jump all over him and and do what they do so someone knocks on my door both my dogs jump up from wherever they are and and they run out the back door as fast as they can because that's an indicator that I'm gonNA throw a handful of food outside and close the door and then I go in and hey presto. No dogs are jumping on the visit of because the dogs are outside because U. condition the behavior properly and then have to tell them to get outside. Yeah I did tell them. Hundreds of times go outside but they know no. That's fantastic so I wanted to do but that on on video so people can see that and go oh my God magic how to see video day to day. Hey you sir how you even that. I should feel my dog hang on said to play the game of bring New Board Gordon play with Bingo. I was in <hes>. I mean a bunch of positive only facebook groups as well and someone someone posted something recently like hey can anyone share video of aggressive Dog Bay road rehabilitated Voy <hes> positive reinforcement techniques and I didn't know where the guy was trouble. I don't know but man the responses to like. I wouldn't put my dog in a position to be filmed just to a pays you that was basically the least of people saying no. I don't have that footage and getting outraged about it and then the people that did post footage sounds like me I rent but the people that did post footage would not of them. It was like Dr Civilian doing it or something like that so it's like okay okay but he wasn't effective like was the method well the video that sophy and has yet like it's. She's counting conditioning a dog that Jack Russell that gets blown like I hate being blown on its face and within the video she counted conditions like super easy right. It's hardly like a kilo aggressive dog that is actually gonNA drags on down the street yeah. which is I think what the guy was asking for? I don't know whether the guy was trolling. I Don I yeah but it was interesting to see like the answer was no life God demonstrate that which is weird because there are people that do that there is people who <hes> you know <hes> forced Frei positive only whatever they do deal in like extreme aggression cases and do totally rectified it but they timelines a suit and that's the thing right and this is. I guess is the point that I've been trying to make for wall. You can be successful in a broad range of skill sets depending on you. Timeframe and people said to me before look. I didn't really want to correct my dog'll us any any punishment. I'll say look we'll just have to see how the dog responds with time then yeah you know and I said because I can fix this a lot earlier if we work with some aversive techniques and said it has to be what has debate and I said but if this is the preferred technique fear. Maybe I'm up the China few but I'll say if this is the way you want to go you have to understand it's going to take you probably ten times as long yeah but I mean headquartered at one and do that and I've just going round and sat there and watched and you know giving my to to advice and stay them in the right direction as best as I can sometimes when making steady progress and sometimes we're not yeah I decide you know you still fixated on this technique unwanted and sometimes as a year on sometimes say well you know what alternatives can we explore. I'll say all right. That's the toolbox I've had. I'm in that position every way they gilly yeah because I mean the area leaving. That's the type of people that are around and yet it's their bad use of positive reinforcement that got them into the they're in you. No I have a whole speech that I gave it will be very calculated and precise USA positive reinforcement and you get to the truth is this is not lace invasive or minimally of see. We could fix this problem in a way because none of the does are that bad usually not I mean the aggressive cases are being saying thing lately have been sweethearts compared to some of the monster I've dealt with in the past and and people know that without insulting their integrity to like people have brought me dogs and being a getting a spider rottweilers lightly and people have been bringing the dogs to me and saying Oh you know he's really aggressive in a decider them to kind of a pays them at the same time hospitals. I say look you know your version of immigration. This is a toddler. That's pinching people compared to you know like some genuine monsters that have had to deal with a really genuinely trying to eight you yeah. It's still a problem and it's still you know it's still is a serious problem. I am not downplaying it or insulting you. I'm just letting you know that on the scale of things it's not as bad as you think and it can be cured easier than some of the nasty sons of beaches at a of had to deal with before yeah. Some people have kind of looked at me and like oh you're not taking me seriously and I say no. They haven't said that to me but I can say it in their face off said now I am taking seriously I know this is serious to you and I know this is a problem for you on. I know this is causing mayhem in your life but it isn't as bad as what you think it is. That's what I'm trying to tell you. It all just distills down to what success at the dog finding stealing yeah. That's Nice oh so that's that's the dough finding that behavior exactly and that's when dealing especially with reactively aggression cases and it's like just takeaways ability to find success in it yeah and the behavior go away because he's no he's not like as you say so few of the does it is not being selected for these days is just not really bad. MOTHERFUCKER is out there to fuck people out the skit so it's like hey. Let's let's most of the time let's just address. They seem to greatest winning strategy that they've implying on for a long period of time yeah and so a lot of the time that force free positive only techniques can work fine. Yes it's not going to be autism direct work today yeah but it can work over time and in the before and after video Nia you might have a young dog and in the video and have face because he's gotten her so <laughter> but that's up to you and your delivery of <hes> you timing and how consistent you are and Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah around a lot. I think that's really one thing that does bother me me as a professional trainer is that when you can see a technique that you know is going to liberate that dog very quickly and yet it will be prolonged by their indecisiveness or the earn a feeling sorry for the dog <hes>. That's why the the question I asked him I said what are you feeling. Sorry for like you want this behavior to go extinct as quickly as possible like that's what we're trying to force extinction on this behavior and yet you want to prolong it over a period of time and suffer it and then finally get to the decision. I don't think I want his dog anymore and while this is happening the problem for a lot of people as they start falling in love with that dog. That's the issue that I say he's you're becoming accustomed to thinking these behaviors. Just not GonNa go away but it's the selection criteria that you've said at that point in time that y'all Zayn well. Let's just save it works where I'm saying to you. My method will work its tried and tested on thousands of dogs and I'm playing games here. I'm not feeling statistics of literally worked. I would say in the landscape of thousands of dogs in these issues over periods of time and it's what yeah it's what to be honest. I've had clients that have preferred to say other China's or they've been you know trying to hopping around to save. If somebody else is going to answer the and sometimes people risen I better with that client and that's just it's not a technique thing it simply personality thing sometimes people might not like my personality in might find comfort and solace in somebody else's kinda words or noise suffice aisaw whatever it is. I want that point in time. It's not that I can't fix dogs. I can fix the dog because when people's dogs have come here for borden trying or of Don private lessons with them boom. The dog is changing. It's it's mind straight away and they'll say the silly we think to me not the silly thing. Let me retract that they'll say appointee me like Oh my God. You know like it's when you take the dog it's different I said yes but here's the thing which try and his around the world will echo to you in draws you you too can have this. You've just got to change your lifestyle. Change Your mannerism change your approach to what you're doing. It's not magic. It's not the wizard of Oz trickery that people are trying to make you think it is it is achievable. You can have it. It's it's there for you yeah two things on that a little speech I give to people about when I take the dog and it goes better at it sort of maintain their hope I said to people hey like me and the dog darn have a history so I get to start at zero yeah. That's yeah like I get. I'm a blank slate. He's a blank slate. Yeah I am immediately reinforcing things that I like and I am I am using pressure to push him out of behaviors. I don't like yeah so he. He understands me very very quickly yeah. I'm the principal your grandma yeah. That's it and you have to work. You have to work your way back to zero GonNa be multiple sessions before you even get to where I get to start yeah and it's not because you're any better or worse than may add this. It's because you have a history of history and you have a reinforcement history. Both positive negative reinforcement actually an intelligent approach walk that I'm a pretty intelligent go out and working that out sorry at one thing I was thinking about like I had a life changing client. A few years ago like I said at the initial phone call is to say to people like so you know like I am a balanced China because a lot of the work I was doing then was reactivity aggression stuff because I'd get it from the vet like people who at the vet and I've got a really good local vet and I were referring a lot of work to me <hes> and then you know would spreads because someone's also down the POC. Doc is suddenly household anymore and say hey. How did this happen so that was the majority of my work was these reactive aggressive dogs and I had this whole spiel when I would answer the phone to people about like hey too so you know like I'm at balanced China like that so we're not wasting each other's time because I'm not like these is the gamut of skills on turning up we than if you calling me it sounds like you need that and you've probably had other China's? Most people had at that point because I was often getting referrals like when people take their dog into be behaviorally euthanized in the mid would say we'll try this guy before we do that so I was quite staunching that that I was like you cold may like these are the techniques I use and I had someone wants say to me like Yep Yep Yep Yep and then I get there and obviously like I had said a bunch of words that they had agreed to not listen to anything and she said to me bicycle she wasn't willing to use any tools or pressure in any form and acknowledged to me that she knew that was what the designated and that that was basically the circumstance that she'd put a so finci created but also told me like didn't tell me why exactly but said because of something that happened in the past that wasn't going to happen you like I'm just flat out not doing that and can you help me otherwise and that was the day for me. I was about to say like nope good luck and I was looking at the dog and I looked at her and I was like fuck this a desperate situation like I have to Moi. My template doesn't fit this. I have to change and the dog is fine. She's fine they fined because the dog wasn't that bad to be honest but it seemed a lot worse because she was reinforcing and I would say okay well same spiel like we can do this boy a positive reinforcement only if you want to but our timelines gonna be completely different right and you're going to have to commit to these perfectly like you have to really like e if we're only gonNA use positive reinforcement we have to use it very effectively. We have to use it for exactly the things that we want and be brutal to the dog actually in not giving any reinforcement for the things that we don't want right <hes> and so the day like these dogs on that like the what do you call it. The nothing in life is free sort of program right like you survive by doing health yeah but you survive by doing the right thing. This is not eating from a bowl dating from your trade pouch yeah all the time but also like you know no more coddling the dog and yes she could come to terms with that freebies. Yes you could come to terms with long carleen. You MSCI wasn't prepared to punish him and told me. Just you know clearly they'd been some kind of abusive relationship in the pasta whatever paranoia someone and she just like I'm not doing that and I was like okay. Well fuck like go to broaden the the HIRWA's no bit he but because it did work that's now I'm like hey we got the gamut he we're balanced China's because I can use oh fourth quarter and you want me just to stick to one as much as possible we can do that. That's no problem but the timeframe and he's the payment costs and it is what it is yeah. There was a lady that when I was living in Melbourne and predominantly running training fulltime that was just my business running training fulltime. I met this lady down there. What didn't made it? She rang up one day and she spoke to me and I soon found out that she was very well to do. uh-huh had a lot of money and give she couldn't give Shit if you've got ten dollars or ten billion dollars entering paypal the sign so she rang me up and I often tell people in the in detail about this because I use it as one of the cases the talk about so she rang me she said Glen My name is such and touch. I'd like you to come out to my harmon. Discuss a concert with my dog and I said okay. Can you tell me what's going on and she gave me a broad range of behaviors at the dog was doing said Yeah. Yeah we can fix that and she said now he's the thing I'm going to tell oh you had to train the dog on the fine and I said I'm sorry that's not going to happen. I said I'll come out there and I'll consult with you and I'll sit down with your. I'll have a look with the dog and I said but this small specialty and said I'll have a look at the dog doc and I'll say if I agree with you yes. We'll do it that way but I probably will find that. A method that I think is better for the dog will work better and she said well. I'm sorry I'm not going to have that. It was funny. It was kind of an uncomfortable situation. She said yeah well. Can you come out and have a look at the dog and I said well. Am I going to get a sign this or is it going to be that I come out there and you tell me what today and she goes. Well yeah that and I'll say well I think we need to pot directions and I said No. I'm oh coming out and she said well. That's ridiculous. She said your professional will not and I said yes. That's why I'm sticking to my gums <hes> so she said well. What are we going to do about the situation? I said look there's a colleague of mine. He will happily take your money and a pays. Whatever have you want and I'll say I however unfortunately I'm going to have to stick to my guns inside now and she said well that's absolutely ridiculous and she proceeded to berate me for a little bit? I just said anyway. Thank you very much have a good day so I refer to to a colleague mine that lasted for about three months I think and then I finally get a cold back from a which I didn't expect. I absolutely didn't expect and I I hadn't made her up into the stage so she brings me again and she's chatting with me and she says okay habit. We meet halfway fly and I said I'm prepared to do that. I'm prepared to do that so I went out to her house and I must admit I got a surprise my law she lived in Turek which is a very affluent area and went out there and I realized Holy Shit this one's like she's loaded and and <hes> I'm sitting in a living room and she got bottlers in maids and all the <hes> people hanging around and <hes> she's chatting away to me then she sits down to me guys now that I've got you here. I'm gonNA tell you how to train the dog and I looked at the dog and I said well everything that you've said to me. The opposite needs to be done because this is the reason that you're in the situation with the dog and she said well. I'M NOT GONNA have it and I said while McConnell China dog and she said you've got to be kidding me. She's glad at me with these car bolt blue eyes and she's just glaring at me and said I'm sorry but this is not going to work. It's going to be waste of both avail times and I said I can just prolong this and she said Kay money's not an object nor said Gabala duquet because I achieve the result that we do achieve and back then for me. It was all bad integrity integrity of getting the job done still is today say give a fuck anymore. Now I gotta get that money. They give you that hot. Wet Stinky cash yeah just posit greased up sweaty palm with that fifty dollar note anyway so we're sitting there in Orlando and she's kind to me. Are you serious like you'll going going to you got to walk out on me said Yeah I said meeting me halfway is listening to order go to say and at least considering what I'm GonNa do and she said why not and I said why what's the problem and I think it was along the same lines interview of what you were talking about before she had a history of somebody training the dog and the dog didn't like it and she got very upset as rich and powerful as she was. I don't think she was having a happy life. I never got that far involved in it but I just I think that dog was is everything to where it was the only thing that she found solace in the will from you know very very well. She was a very like I said very affluent person might success in life. I think she'd had so many people saying yes to where that that was her escapism from everything and so I left she offered the Pie me and I said No. I didn't even accept their money. I it was more like I said it was more my integrity back then and that infuriated air even more the fact that I would not take the money because she was used to buying paypal so I walked out and again she called me back and I said we're GONNA do this. Properly this time and I'll say because this is a this is absolutely the last time I'm coming back and the only reason I actually went back there is because Shay was ause actually friends with another client of mine over in the same area and I found out this through coincidence and I said because of this person because of the connection you having all comeback out there and do the lesson with her so I sat down with her and she said all right. I'm going to consider and you could just choose close to tease out said this is not going to be as painful as you think it's going to be and I said I know you love. The dog and I know you're worried about the welfare of this dog and saw Moy and I said this is why I want to do it properly for you to fix this Jason we fixed the dog into listens to license the behavior was completely gone and all it was is the dog was pissing on her expensive Italian couches fixed into license and the dog stopped it for them all now she was willing to pay me he just to come over there and and hang at befriends with the dogs and I said a nearly nine there I'm not gonna I said I said I'm not going to do that said I'm not going to just keep milking you for money and I said I could and she said Glen Money's not an issue for me. It's not a problem and I said I understand but I'm not GONNA do it. My I made so much money out of her from recommendations like she recommended me. All I've Melbourne and I mean I was just in money heaven for a period of time because all my friends they just had excess cash would just booking me crazy things to do with the dogs like I was walking people's dogs down the puck and foot like obscene amount of money back then and I'm just thinking this is fantastic and all every client that I always ready to walk out on <hes> but it was just a bad getting that relationship sitting Stein or again. Tell Story Yep going. I'm not sure whether this should be in the podcast okay. It's a reach people story YEP. Maybe you'll cut this out. Okay so a lot of people have told they individually and said you have to tell it on focus like never been in but this is the so I had to tell it without my making sure I don't got so there isn't a fan them. Yeah well just have these client who I was training the dog and fairly wealthy leaving a very affluent apartment block Yep and I and I was trying to the dog and the deal was I had a k. and I was coming going multiple times a day because the dog was very small Prey Doug Yeah I know that yet and I was coming and going as a native to because we couldn't do long obsession with the dog and they said look he gave him a fee and I had a k. and it was basically coming. Go work you are now is because Baba and the out of the building all the time and I mean they elevate a one day and there's this woman who I've seen the elevator and she says says what are you doing. I said Oh well. I'm the Doug China I I'm trying to stoke and she's like <hes> and <hes> I see sometimes when you hear and I said well I come and go place i. I'm he pretty pretty much every day Monday to Friday have been for the last few weeks and will be for the disabled future. I'm training the dog to do a specific thing I come and go multiple times per day and she looks at me and she says so he every day Monday to Friday at Irregular Times Multiple Times like yes. That's what I park in the loading zone them sometimes only here for a few minutes okay says do you have access to level six said. Let me check US my thing at G._S._I.. Come with me I'm like do you have a dog. She says no says also I'm pointing. It's like how much do you charge told on. She's like okay. Come with me so we got it and she says what I need you to do. He's once a week come into this place and there will be an envelope full of money waiting for your he on the little you know during the whole white people have a little Drissa table sort of thing <hes> I just need you take that and I was like okay. That's weird but I'm into which hit whatever she gives me the fall and all I have to do is go in. I didn't have the K. to the house. The house was on walked but I had the like the elevator things I could get into these extremely secure building so the first day I'm going to go. She has a different time different time every way but once a week you must come in and take that Paula money can do that. It's so the first time I'm GonNa do it standing still and Eric for thinking to myself. I've no idea what to walk into. He I did say Doug that place like I I don't know what Connie John Walking into my being set up for murder at what's happening here so open the door and walk in and take the money and there's nothing zone and this went on for six weeks. You get charged for breaking. I didn't even think about that so the six weeks go into these house random times during the week and twice she was there and it was eight six of the seventh. I can't remember she's saying she walks up to me and she hands me the money and takes the K- basically out of my hands says I don't need you to do this anymore. Come I'm back and I'm like Oh okay no problem so I thin trading duggleby they ask they go on the. I'm sort of my mind's elsewhere at us at all right. Just go to tell you something because it's been really. We've been doing this thing in your building the last few weeks in it's just really we don't fully understand it and I told him about it and he's like I'll make up a name. It's like I'm marjory. She's so gross accomplished you do that too and I was like what she's got a fetish about being caught masturbating you. She's like van like doesn't know when you're going to come. She's at any stage. This guy could walk into her house and I never did. I never caught I just would walk in the house and take the money but I was like the cheapest entertainment that she had because at any minute Monday to Friday nine to five some go I could just walk into the house and go so and he told me about being a dog trainer and the women going to go but you've got to get a label. I don't know and then I have to think about it. I've Yeah I taste some stories off off air and I think I have but I'm not gonNA put him in the podcast so anyway if you just heard a story that happened to me and if there's a joint taste me seeing because we decided that we shouldn't put that out anyway it's pretty yeah. That's pretty out there all right. Hey let's wrap it up yeah. That's it for another episode of the Canton Paradigm as always if you like what he plays lock right share subscribe do that through whatever subscription service you download from. Maybe just telephoned <hes> noticed that we haven't really been getting many reviews or not change so far that would be a good thing yeah yeah. There's a lot of people who were on channel Nail like I think we got nearly three thousand people who are following us on facebook book so it'd be good to have a little bit of a review of love to lock it would be great stars Yep. It shows the show by Petron. <hes> three bucks a month. Get you an extra episode ten bucks. Get you a live Q._N._A.. But if you wanted to give us ten thousand that'd be totally whisper. Glenn really really wants so econ he dogs barking in the background of the outshining podcast Yep and if you WANNA getting contacted us best way to do that is by email Info at the Canine on Paradigm Dot Com. Let me just confess something to all of you while I'm doing this rate and telling you to a malice if you have a amount of this and we haven't gotten back to you that is because we currently have two hundred and ninety seven hundred a mouse on the infer yeah that little button there. That's two hundred ninety seven hundred looking the email APP. I use a different APP for that. Some of them had to spam yeah but there's two hundred ninety seven hundred eighty. I'll say if we if we don't get back to you because we didn't say yes.

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The Power of Reflection with Author Remi Roy

True Faith Stories

34:59 min | 1 year ago

The Power of Reflection with Author Remi Roy

"Hi everyone welcome back to chief eight stories. I am your host Deborah along and I am your host near you data and we are so excited about today's show you today special show because we have. I guess we're super excited GONNA go ahead and tell you a little bit of on our guest. Her name is Ramey Roy and she is an author. She's a writer and she's a passionate Schnitt and committed to inspiring people to live life intentionally. She's joining us here today because she has a new book. That just Cam out. Not Too long ago. It's a journal for creative. Reflection called. This is me Ramey was. It's from Legos Nigeria. But she currently lives in the suburbs of Dallas detail is again we have. We have three else in one. PODCAST that how awesome is that She's also written two other books on fiction. I they're both novels and and So I I believe this I on nonfiction works otas very exciting exciting where we're excited to be here because she's Tom Passionate writer. She loves to inspire and elevate journalists to pursue an explore possibilities. So remmy Welkom come. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here guys. Awesome me too that we have so much to talk about. WHOA really loving this book that you wrote a chance to To take a look at it. I've already highlighted some one of my favorite quotes in there and you have some of my favorite quotes in there and I'm like yes. I love journaling so this is awesome. Start Looking for the pictures now as a very involved part of the book. That's what people are telling me because you have to go back which is like moment and all that. Yeah Yeah so the first question I wanna ask you is about the title itself. This is me why this is me. Where did the title confirmed the inspiration behind it all? It's it's funny because it was one of the first things that actually came to me after. I thought about the idea for the book because all of this came out of my own the personnel Reflections and my personal journey and I was just Thinking through looking through some of the things that are written down and I got the idea. Yeah like Oh this can be like a tool for all the people you know to kind of go through and reflects the way that he helped me and somehow when I wrote down or the the the questions like the main sections of the book and I was thinking of a title and I thought this is. This is my s- oriole like it's like whoring out. My life is like just writing about my life like yeah this is me funny. Yeah that's just how it came to me and I thought okay. That's a good tattle. I'm sure somebody has used that for a book before and I checked online and I found a Buca to with that but I thought I mean it just it just works. What was they with John? The fact that I mean I feel like it's almost impossible. Yeah an original title that knowing especially with with all the boots being published every min- publishing I mean we're hey but if if that's the title Dan he wanted them. I I mean these very catchy. It's they're catching it is it's it's it's it's fitting because it's such a personal personal journal and journals. Are you know for the most part personal in the sales. But I love this because I mean you really make the personal journaling. Like reach back in you have to find specific moments in our lives to record in a lot of times journaling. We don't do that. We just usually write what sticks out to us the most. You know what I mean. So That's a little better journal in with that. Said I WANNA know. Why would it so important for for you to journey into your pass to kind of gain clarity in perspective for where you're going all while it's the main crocks of the book look and Like mention you're reaching back and it's actually one of the most difficult parts you know from people who have told me just the experience going through the book. It's really hard and realize that a lot of the time the hard things unnecessary for us to do. Because that's Zwick clarity comes from if we always stay on the face and whenever dig deep we never really find out ourselves. So why are you. This is a quote right. Sir Can you say that again if we never dig deep if we always stay on the surface we never find ourselves get into really doing doing the work and I had to personally and the reason why I thought it was helpful to be rich back and dig. Deep is that when I was going through just the reflection in process for myself and I wasn't going through at that time with the intention of writing a book I was just in dealing with my own funk. You know I was just in a very difficult place place. I tried to look to the future because I'm the kind of person I always want to know that there's something I have. Yes I feel like. We'll all look forward a two. Yes because that is what hope is about their tote. Yes hopelessness is when you look ahead and you see nothing it's bleak that's when you know there's nothing I'm leaving for you know but I was in a position at that time. I really sincerely found it difficult to see anything in my future but then I thought that has to be something you know so I decided to just think about my life and think about my journey web being The people the please experiences and when it comes to faith even the the scriptures that have been Gordon into the promises that I knew for sure that God had given me about my so I had to go back to all of that because how can i. I have those promises. How can I have all of those things that I was holding onto an really believed in and now find myself in this difficult patch and then say all all I give up this nothing then? There's just got to be something. So that's why I think it's it's kind of necessary to reach back to rethink about away. You've been because sometimes sometimes we. We are burdened by the past. Because things happen that we didn't liked that really broke us or really. Don't like to think about but the truth is that you know that at age as you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. That's something about them past. That can give you a sort of some clarity about where where you're going next. Even if poss- has been difficult you can Decided to change that. If it's been good if you had a dreams and ideas and goals rose but now you find yourself in a difficult place you can use that to inspire yourself again. I had two streams in the past that has to be more ahead of me so that's why I thought it was important. Potent actually reach back and didn't even find a clarity and perspective for the future and sometimes we don't know how far we've come unless you look back and see where we were also so yeah. I think that's awesome. Yeah that's awesome thank you. I think we get ahead of ourselves so we all know the what the book is about because we all held it in my hands before listeners. They're probably like what are what are they talking about this trial this. Let's go backwards. Let's go back a few steps. Remmy could you tell us exactly. What is the book about You know let's would you. You consider it journal and on fiction piece of work bike. Can you go back into this. Give us a brief overview of wonderful masterpiece. Absolutely thank you so this is me is a journal for creative reflection and I call it that because like we've been talking about it helps you really dig addictive into your Jenny. Helps you tell your story. But you're able to tell it not just by writing but by also I'm using your pictures so The Journal is broken down into sections. So you have different sections that alike. God like ten year like increments like like decades so your childhood years. You know your Teenage Years Your Twenties Your Thirties. You know all of that so their questions. It's a guided the John also their questions that you kind of go through an answer and the men to really help you Really dig deep reach back. Because I realized that it's difficult sometimes We blocked out some experiences. Sometimes we just don't remember arm except maybe somebody's at all. You remember what happened when we were twelve. And you're like Oh my God. I forgot about that. You saw the pictures also help you kind of. It's kind of like a nostalgic journey that you take and you putting your space in the book to putting putting your pictures there some coloring pages to help you relax. If it's getting too intense you can just take a Break Break Aka the colliery. Yeah but other questions designed to help you deepen think about your journey because like Tamara said sometimes sometimes we forget how far we've come you know but when you're able to go through your journey like that at reading my goal is that when you pick this up if if you really do the work of going through and writing when you pick it up it gives you kind of like a map of where you've been of what your life has been in you know until now with pictures and words that you've written from you want experiences so it's like a photo album ODonnell scrapbook all in one and a caller in for all in one because it really gives you like a overview like a bird's eye have you If you will of your life and that's really our goal with it. So that's the look of the book is really about. That's really great the awesome. I'm I'm looking here and a page forty nine in can't wear talks about looking ahead and you have one of my absolute favorite quotes. I love alcohol spot. He learned nor Roosevelt and the future. The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams. And I think it's really important to take time and reflect on your dreams that you want to accomplish or dreams that you wanted to accomplish. Didn't get to at a certain you know by a certain age. Yeah and so I I believe that the whole all section is just really important so and I love that you mentioned that if I can just see about Dreams here I guess that's why those my questions tell who more about dreams. Yeah it's it's funny because A lot of the times we see dreams in different ways so dreams could be thank. You mentioned maybe dreams that you had a growing up you know maybe at when you were a child you wanted to be. I wanted to be a doctor. You know for so long I thought I was is going to be a doctor and I think sometimes the dreams that we have as children are media inspired or motivated by people around us. Yeah same and what the what people are doing. Maybe your parents were doctors or maybe everyone just wanted to be adopted every yes you had to be adopted to be successful and it's okay. Hey that was the dream then you know and sometimes when we are now grown we could those dreams like off that. It's not relevant anymore for me. I WANNA be a doctor anymore anymore. Like that's not even a thing for me. Yeah ever sometimes it's not just the the The substance of those dreams what we wanted to do. It's the mindset that we had as children we believe that it was possible. I mean we had never experienced a female in that we we had never experienced disappointment in that way. So I mean I I believe that was going to be a doctor and I knew I could do it. You know but when life happens and things exchange we begin to feel disillusioned like I can do this. I can't do that and it's much more difficult for us to step up and say I want WanNa do this all I wanna do that. I want to dream big because we've had disappointments well the truth if we can hold on to the minds just that mindset of being able to do do things no matter how difficult it may seem because I I that age. That's exactly what we felt. We didn't know I didn't know what it took to be a doctor that is to do it. Yes absolutely so what if I apply that same mindset Bassim childlike faith to my life and I wake up and see I have this dream. I WANNA be with a company. I want to be the company that would do this. And this and this and I just believe that I can do it. Yes sound naive to somebody else. It takes so much to build the company like you have to do this and you have to do that but is it possible. Of course it is because people that do any of everyday. So that's that's one of my goals for this book for you to think about the dreams that you had and not just be pushed him aside. I've not been relevant anymore. But think about the mind space that you were in when you had those dreams and reading anything is possible. You know reme- that I love that because I remember I believe I was around Sixteen Years Sixteen years zone in. That was the time in my life where I just knew I could do anything absolutely I remember I remember a couple years ago thinking back. The timing may like there was nothing I could do at that moment in my life has so many dreams so many aspirations if the damn life hit it was like all those things just kind of disappeared and I remember asking God parents guide for that type of faith again. Now you know now on thirty eight eight years old in where is that now. There's so much fear you know life has happened. Somebody things have happened in my life and there's some fear that's keeping me from what I want it back then it so crazy. Yeah I love that. I know we need to go back to that mind space. I mean I've also been even with the the journey of writing this book and doing the things that I had to do around it. I am an introvert and always told myself that. There's some things I wouldn't enjoy doing or don't want to do because I'm afraid of doing it. I'm putting myself out there and you know You risk in disappoint mantle. People people not accepting my work or whatever but I have and I think it's also because of the things that I've been through and being able to overcome. I'm like whatever it is this is bring it on like I don't have to succeed at the highest levels at everything I don't have to but if there's something on my heart that I want to do that. I believe that I can succeed. I'm just GonNa Take Sean like I'm just going to do it. I'm just GONNA try it this year at the beginning of this year I started to call myself a trial because I wasn't and In a place where I felt like everything in my mind that I wanted to do absolutely succeed at it but I thought I'll give it a shot and see what happens and I tell you it's taking me farther than I thought ever go just because I'm like up. Put Away all the expectations of success or whatever to keep it a shot you know oh my heart right now all right I need this. Oh my goodness that's awesome. Thank you you so I WANNA ask. Why do you think In your opinion what do you think journaling is important not necessarily about The past or just journaling in general like me. I'm a big believer in journaling Specially Pen and paper so I'm a big fan of journaling. So I want you to kind of tell our listeners whites important to journal whether you're a writer or not why is journaling. Good for the soul while there's so many benefits to generally the the first in that comes to mind is Writes in actually helps you clarify your thoughts so if you have a thoughts in your mind and you just thinking and thinking because because I mean at any given point you're thinking of different things like so many things your mother your wife you you know you an employer employee you. I mean you have so many things to do win. Then it's just easy to get overwhelmed by life but when you stop writing things down you get clarity you know you know exactly what you think kin and you begin to see how you feeling about the things you're thinking but if you don't Jonah I mean I guess people can get by without media on putting their thoughts down but I think there's a lot of benefits to it because it helps you be intentional about your life is like senior life on paper you know you able to rightly evaluate where your mind is asked and how you really doing so when people ask you how you doing you know just like like all. I'm fine. You exactly how you doing. You don't be no position to explain everything to them out to them. Because you've written it down you a more You know connected to yourself. I believe so. I think it's a good thing because it's Therapeutic in that way because it just helps you feel more connected to who you really what you're going through in your life at that time you know any helps you separate issues so to speak. You know like I said that so many things going on at the same time but if you write it down I think it helps to To gain clarity and I think a lot of people old times which is drifting with think. We'll actually then existence. So yes you know which driest things are happening to us. We don't why we don't Up and going to bed going to work and coming by like there's no real living. Yeah this the thriving. There's no sense of that sense of purpose because which is doing and sometimes it's because we're just tired you know what reports come to you so I think you helps you know to put your thoughts down. It helps to talk to other people to connect on a deeper level. I at the I think it just helps January undestand your life better. That's good stuff. You have a quote here that That really spoke to me said reflection it's never about dwelling on the past. It's about paying attention to your journey. So you move forward with clarity in confidence and with that said I know some people tend to dwell so much passed in. They get stuck there in their past. Yeah so what advice would you give to someone That's having a hard time moving forward so they won't become stagnant there. I think I think the first thing is it's important to exactly why you where you are and what you're trying to achieve right so if you and I'm a therapist I by any means but I've kind of gone through this process for myself and I found myself at a place where I knew I was stuck in a loop and I couldn't move forward because I was always dwelling on what at what had gone wrong. What had happened and all of that but if you really ask yourself what we do you want? I wanted to be happy. That's good as a good place to start. I want to be successful. I want to be I want to be happy with where I'm in life. You know I wanNA move forward. I wanted to achieve more things than were Amr now. Men You have to reap eighty be truthful with yourself and say okay. This is what I want. This is what I've been doing. Is this going to help me get to where one to go. And I know that. That's like like an internal question and answer. That is not easy for everyone to do. You know some people find it more difficult to be honest with themselves. They have to talk to somebody. Somebody else to break down. So that the seat because we lie to US owns a lot you know because we want to be comfortable where we are. Yes so with his wife right therapies helpless so anybody out there you feel like you just in a fog talk to somebody go to therapists we can help you see on your life or what it really is because and it's no shame if you're not able to tell yourself the truth at that time so I would say sort of evaluate where you are. What are the things if we thinking about? What other things? You've I'm doing and be honest is what you doing right now. Going to help you move forward. You know if you've had like maybe like a disappointment of the possible maybe relationship relationship or maybe a failure with the business job and you've been dwelling them that. What do you want to get another job to have a career to be? Successful is what you're doing dwelling on this job. That field or this career failed of this relationship. That feel is going to help you forward so it takes really been honest with yourself who to gain the clarity. You need to say okay. I need to let go this and that to move forward and you cannot do that by yourself. It's no shame talk to somebody. That's what I would say that. That's good 'cause the root of it all. It seems to be accountability. Which I think? What's it's hard for a lot of people to Kinda take accountability for? There's some things that happened in their lives and I think that's what keeps a lot of people from moving forward so that's the good stuff have more questions on your end. I do right. I have one war you. We know what you can answer or not answer. It's totally up to you. I know I got to So what was the most unsettling thing that you discovered about yourself during your reflective journey the most unsettling. Because it's harder I admit the heart stuff. Yeah Yeah Yeah it is. I guess the many and I'm still going through it because it's it's always like a continuous thing but I guess one of the ones that was really a difficult for me to accept except was that for a very long time I the way I would would describe myself is a mouse Because I was always afraid. Fear wasn't just a thing that I knew about fear was it was tangible to me. Leave did I was going through Just thinking about One of my first jobs when I got out of college and there was this job I had. It was in League as Nigeria. Dan and I was I I was in the Communications Department and we had to interface with a CEO. You want once in a while. And he thinks I sent him an email once and he said that I did you write this email. Mike I ready was they all so he wanted me. He was impressed by what he read. And what some of the things anyone that needs to join join Like the executive mutant to be in that and then I was so scared. I'm like I want to do this. But then I wins and then I sat in that meeting and I don't know what happened into we're talking about whatever and then somehow this to me and then one of the guys said Oh we don't we don't talk to her or stress missile too much because she's just GonNa Start crying and I was like I could not be like I was so embarrassed I felt so small I wanted suggests disappear but not time it was too much for me to to think about to digest to break down. Why do I give that energy edgy? Like I'm just a mouse. I cannot stand up for myself. I'm fearful I don't want to face you know. Why do I give that energy and all of that? I couldn't and do with it. I've met time because I just I was. I didn't know how to do it and it was much many many years later when I think about a year or two lachey think or two years ago that I really started to think about it and unfortunately I hadn't let go of a lot of those fears because I I I didn't couldn't find the strength to do set of things because I just didn't see myself as somebody who could you know I didn't. I didn't know how to how to handle conflict. Like if I had like like an issue with someone I didn't know how to handle things like that. I will just run away and never talk. You're never stopped myself because I know how to do. It took a long time for me. And and I'm I feel like one of the things that got us really helped me to deal with is is pride because it's kind of funny because to be caressing and sue and to also be prideful knows yes it makes sense to go ahead yes I know. Because if you look at it on the selfish heckle you be fearful in prideful. But the reason I begin to see that was really prideful is because I couldn't I couldn't deal with the fact that people saw me this way because part of me wanted it to be respected Ted to you know have some set of people respect it but I knew that because I was so fearful apple and it showed like how I never told anyone that I was fearful of that office but I need to tell the big C could all over me you know Realize that people were taking advantage of me people with talking to me funny because I was given this energy and those very difficult for me to accept except okay I have this deep seated fear insecurities and all of that and you took definitely a long time for me to be able to deal with it and get out of it but I think also also one of a very difficult wants me to face me immigration relate to that one so much That's what keeps me from doing so many things just at that ear gin I just I hate that but I love how you said. Pride fear people think about that but that that is so important because I mean I think I have the same issue because I am so concerned about how people will see me or have you me. That's pride it So unto scared to do anything it is it is. It is and one of the things I don't think it's I don't know I'm gonNA share it. There's nothing you what I wrote the book this book and I thought okay. I'll written books before and I feel like I didn't. I do my due diligence to give them like a good chance of success because I'm I'm very bad at marketing arm. Yeah I am horrible. That's it so I thought I'm just GONNA I want to try this time a really wanna try the way. I was going to say that you have to put yourself out. There and I was afraid of doing that because I don't I don't like to just to do that like I don't know what people were saying. I I don't know if this is gonNA work. I don't know if people are GonNa like the book and then I thought okay. I'M GONNA do this video. I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that and then I thought I think you should do an events like just like a book launch. Because I've never done that and and I thought that would be a great way for me to talk. Talk to people directly about the book and reading my heart for the but because it's easy for you to put out the put out the book and you know people read it. People get people use it but I feel like like I wanted to be an avenue to talk about. Why even thought it was a book? I wanted to write why it was important on all of that and the fear was real. Oh I'm like how am I gonNa do this like am I gonNA stand there and talk to people about like I feel like I'm just talking about myself and I just have off the this whole event just for me just about this and I hate Bob like yours. I mean the name absolutely so so I thought okay. This is what I'm GONNA do. I'm GONNA leave and of course I'm the author like you said I cannot. Hi I'm going to have other people also like a talk of the people. Yes so it's not just about me. I was able to figure it out and I am glad idea that it because because he really took me out of my comfort zone it was a difficult to do embodied and the pictures on instagram. Look really it was a good turnout along shows in Dallas. I know I know it's amazing because when I stepped up and said I wanted to do this God he did show a black friends and people just shoot up and helped me like God. It was just amazing. I'm glad I took that step because young I would never learned you know I think one of the biggest fears also providers is. Who's going to be there? No one no one shows us look at all of those fears. Yeah but I'm glad I did. It did it to listen. I was not gonNA for. Oh my first released. I WAS NOT GONNA do book launch at nothing it might have had supported. My husband planned it because I was Ed wanted. Nothing they do with it for him. You know I the last minute she was like no. I'm not doing it because I I think I was like encouraging to do it at either I was like no. I'm at home and it's just like Oh unedu need anymore. I'm like Yes yes you are you have to. I'm going to it's it's not. It's definitely not easy putting yourself out there for the world to judge very vulnerable position. Okay writing in writing is a very personal thing you know. And then when he gets to the point where you actually have to okay. It's a enough that you're already published it but now you have to talk about it. Why why do I know I was freaking out when I had to do that for my last book in I was like Oh my God frees up there? So it's it's I imagine. Thank you but I can only imagine what remmy what you were going through because this is when it's fiction sometimes you can hide behind it because it's not it's not just switch you know but when it's like real life stuff affleck I'm like in my head. You know just listening to you. I'm thinking about for the Martin on writing like hat out. How that's GonNa play out when the time comes I gonNA be like hiding? I`Ma the book and I think I think the opposite I think nonfiction is easier to market because people resonate with what you've been through easier but yes talk about it. It's more difficult because now you're really facing facing the the book to create worry about you. Also you have to really be there but I think he has the greatest potential to be people in Pakistan. You're talking about real life stuff if exam relate to yes exactly so. Tell us where people can find your book yes. Oh it's currently on Amazon and you can also get Eddie on my website. Remmy Roy online dot com perfect and she is also on social media. Our you find you. I'M GONNA instagram Ram Awry on facebook. And well I used to be on twitter and I can't remember the last time I instagram is the right so I will go ahead and put her information in the show notes description so you guys know exactly where to find her and where to find book Well I'm so glad we finally had a chance to do this interview. It was really great speaking to you about your book okay. Everything that you're doing. Do you have any more events that you're planning no not right now right now all right we will remain. I just thank you so much. You've actually spoken to me more than you know. I'm thinking we're on here just to do an interview when you you just really touched my heart in so many law really have in. I really do wish you all the best in so much in your writing career Sharing live and you can also.

The Journal Ramey Roy WanNa writer Dallas Dan Deborah Schnitt facebook twitter Pakistan Remmy Zwick John poss Gordon Tamara Roosevelt Bassim Bob
Episode 66: Interviewing Dallas Burkevics

The Canine Paradigm

1:23:53 hr | 2 years ago

Episode 66: Interviewing Dallas Burkevics

"Wants happening in the canine industry for all the latest news views and expert opinions stay right here for the canine paradigm. You'll hear from industry leaders experts doyennes of the industry learned colleagues movers and shakers and the odd. Randy guest. Get the latest insights and expert advice from both here and abroad from the people in the know now here your hosts Glenn cook and Pat steward, and I'm lofty Fulton, and I'm outta here. Hey, Pat has all my Jason. I hear he's doing fantastic. In fact, he just keeps selling so much gay to L loyal listeners at such remarkable process. What's he got? He's got. Good question, always gonna everything bowls togs laces. I think bowls and tug should be said in the same sentence. Well, we just did meals. That's what Jason's pumping out like hope mills. Why paul? Hi, chip nightshift meals. Yeah. He's got them. All. Episode. Yeah. On patriot. So a lot of people are learning about how to use the mill yet and getting them from Jason leads now, sleds and parachute. So I assure you tasted with remnants of the parachute. Yeah, I can confirm it in flight. I know he still doesn't have a website. So if you'd like to buy something from Jason could be a home spring autumn, you could get that from Jason. But you have to do it through Facebook. And in order to do that you have to hit to on's week at quip, which is heavy spill that A N Z W A say kite on Zwick on's. We don't quit. Welcome back to the Ken on paradigm. You hoes patched Jewett. I'm joined today on my co-host. Glenn Kook and today with in an echo, we room in Cambra. We're not in-studio we're in a different location altogether. This is as much a studio outplays, it's actually Molex Judy because it it actually looks like a studio, and we were talking about heck anyone these tables. But hey, let's introduce Dallas book Vicks Dallas, thanks for having me. Thanks for being a part of the show Spain. I think we've talked about having you on the show since last year, we have already Ellie from spot Patnow even headed on the show where we've said we're gonna have you on the show, and we find the heavy on the show, which is great because look come up to L location at Giral, plenty of times you've done probably about a dozen seminars there over these. And finally we wanted to talk to you about your expertise in. Well, your experience I was gonna say. Too far. They wanna put too much pressure on your experience in the rescue fraternity. Yeah. Because it's something that it's a very popular. And it's very cultural is subject as days the more. You are involved in the dog industry. I think the moist dot hearing people echo, you should have a rescue dog or have you considered a rescue dole or I'm working with rescue and so forth like that? And you've had quite a bit of experience in that over the years. Yeah. So we would like to get your origin stories in. Hey got into rescue. What motivated you do that? When it all started and tell us about the highs and lows of the career. Yeah. So uh thought it off. I didn't grow up in a dog household grew up with cats a sign as I'm moved out. What a house I got myself a rescue dog as one of those people who went to RSPCA with no knowledge about dogs think about it got myself German shepherd. She was a sage eqe she had a few issues, but that all went really well. L added a few more at some rottweilers to the family, and that was really good. They were all sort of middle aged. I venture adopted dusty who's my current labrador that I still have from a rescue group. And at the time they were looking for people to help her out, and I was managing clubs at the time. So I said will I can help with some fundraising. I've got access to supplies and things like that help help the money and sort of things I did that for a while. And eventually they sort of sucked mean. They do. So that was about twelve years ago. So the group that I'm with ice AT. Rescuing foster we do on voluntee- behavioral systems at the pounds around camera and New South Wales as well. So I started doing a bit of that then eventually got into the fostering and this foster dog, and it's all been Healy slope from their ups and downs and lots of dogs through the house and overall it's been a great experience with fittingly. A lot goes on easy and makes it makes life difficult. So how many dogs have you got a yours at the moment. Just to to the dogs of leaving with you three at the moment. So it's it's quiet for me. I'm supposed to be on. Hiatus at the moment. Okay. I've just had knee surgery rotties had cruciate surgery and my labradors now fourteen and he's laryngeal paralysis. We were taking some time out and. Out a little bit as well. So we were taking a bit of time out, but I have had a dog comeback that ivory harmed as a puppy. So she's with me at the moment is to find her in your home. So just three which is the courthouse for me off topic. We just mentioned your Rhody crucial. Soja was at like full tape yellow. Yeah. What's what's expected recovery? Tom on that. Look, this is the second one the first one took our twelve month. I think it was a long Insein that we had, you know, she got out of the house and went belting around suburb and heard it then. And he's time I probably just haven't done a very good job at looking after it. She's going pretty well. But that's cost involved in Taga surgery. These days it's a couple thousand. Yeah. So it certainly doesn't help beggar sorted. You have to. It and then. Yeah. My credit card got hacked. And I just didn't change it over. Nick minute. Yeah. I'm staring down the barrel of that myself. Yeah, he's going to have to have it at some point. I'm just trying to trying to light as low as possible because he's to Tehran just hanging on. Yeah. It's not visible can't see here. They can see like other evidence of the can't see that. But you can feel these needs quite right? And he's going to an altered gate, but we're just pre having as much as possible. Basically the advice was that make it any better by doing the moments. I was going to get much worse before they can make better just one of the reasons when okay to America for extended period because I know with my lock it's been fifteen thousand dollars taking the dog over the blow load out on the first day. I'd be traveling around America with him locked in a box the whole time. That's why that's not happening. But enough about me. Hey, all of it Dellis. Yeah. So camera the dog saying, Dan, he tell us about it. What's who's down? Hugh who the play is? What's what's going on? So we only have we've got the ours piano, which is the only shelter here in camera. They don't work a lot with rescue. They tend to do their own thing. And then there's just one pound which is the camera domestic animal services. So that's the pound in. It's chockablock a lot of the changes in legislation down. He sees a lot more dogs. So I think come when speaking somebody last week that had something like seventy dogs and ninety fifty pins. So they currently boarding boarding dogs in a boarding kennel. So what changes in legislation of lead to look they'd just saving a lot more dogs for harassment and things like that. So the become really strict on any kind of dog attacks any harassment anything like that. They'll save them at the. Yeah, it's pretty full pretty full there. And then there's Quyen Bian which is just over the border is a pound there. There's a couple of rescue group so foster based rescue groups, which is the group that I'm we and then there's a couple of other big ones for life rescue another really good one. And then this is some of the other ones like year heard. Harms and things like that have foster care is in the area as well naturally. Have a by. But Thome have foster care in the area. So the rescue you're involve with doesn't have a physical premises. You is just a network of people that get involved with the pounds in order to see stem in rehoming dolts. Yep. Yep. So we've got about a twenty forty and fifty foster cares at any one time that are all based around the taste. Location or anything like that? It's all all done through the harm. And how it works is way going through the behavioral assessment every Saturday on the dogs that had chief and Asia at the pounds that we deal with them. So a lot of them let Cambria they only get seven days before they're on the list feed in Asia. Are we going every Saturday the give us the least of dogs at ju for the Wednesday. And then we try to find rescue for them those couple of days. So you would get them out of the pan and into foster care. So you rely on having enough foster care is to take the out hold onto them until you then don't have a timeframe of Helen to rearm nine timeframe. So they stay for a minimum of two weeks. Do a quarantine period of two weeks just to make sure we're not passing on disease and things like that into the community and then anytime from their slow minimum two weeks. But sometimes I'll take every year. I think the longest one two years, and what if they require vit- retreatment della sued looks after that, so the rescue group that. Am we we do? It's all paid for. So you covered all you've at work and all that sort of thing is covered. So we do a lot of fundraising throughout the year. We're pretty lucky out group Bank balances quite healthy. So we probably get a lot of things that all the groups. Don't get we get a lot of donations and things like that of food. So we're pretty lucky in that in that respect everything you're doing in your in your risk. Your organization is all on terribly yet. Volunteer or should say. Yeah. And so the food that your given the rest someone doughnuts Abaga food to the rescue that thing. It's like disseminated to those foster cares. Yeah. Yep. So Albert we've got a warehouse that we will at somebody's basement hick. We call it the shopping warehouse, and that's where the donations go and then foster care can just go and pick them up whatever they need. But you do end up a lot of the food that we get donated is not always the best quality food. And fortunately fall secure as starting to say the benefits of fading appropriate. Food and that sort of things, you know, the big bags of Powell, and that sort of stuff and anything colors tends to get lift behind which is good to say this starting to say that the benefits of fading really good food. That's, but it doesn't mean you have to pay for it yourself. So get quite quite expensive. I guess what? A lot of people don't tend to see is the amount of work and organization that actually goes into these like foster care in and rescue is not just something that you can just do a little bit Dibble dabble in you're either in or you're out. Yeah. And that's the difficulty of it. Because it is like it's almost like an organized army. You've got to have a lot of people a lot of spice a lot of time. A lot of dedication, and one of the things I guess people don't realize is the Amana stress that's involved in it. Yeah. It is highly stressful highly emotive, I'm just going to say it. There's a lot of wrong type of people involved in skew who shouldn't be in it because they're in it for a lot of the wrong reasons, but they were. Hundreds and thousands of people that Irene it, and I'm look seriously Mahat guys out to him because I did a little bit with rottweilers. I did a little bit of help with Walla. So I things, but it is so demanding and so involved I didn't have time to maintain Korea and maintain rescue and help paper with it all the time that probably sounds a little selfish and in the white walls. But I just didn't have the time to be out of commit to. It was just so full on. And they will pay a ringing me around the clock and people wanting me to take dogs in getting in trouble from the council having term any dogs in my backyard, and it would just it was just helter skelter at one stage. So totally once you're in there. They suck you in. You know, you say how many dogs the whiting how many dogs need help? And you start to go my God to fit dog seen and they calling out last-minute. These gets put to sleep. It comes you house and say know, I can fit another one in and really. In reality. You probably conned. So I think it's pretty special people that that Tyke it on and that do it. Well, and really commit to it because it takes so much time the training involved in getting a foster care on board. Let me get a lot of people here. Just want to try out Adoga sensually before they adopt or I just wanna foster for a couple of months, and it's just I think that say what goes on in the background to try and get inductions dawn and all the paperwork and all the training, and that sort of thing, and I think some groups who aren't trying the foster care. Don't do any of that sort of thing it probably wicks them for us. We want to make sure that we set them up to succeed. And we set the dogs up to succeed as well. Because it's just important for them. And that the foster care is not what they're doing an inorganic do anything stupid takes one person to tight a dog with Paul Volcker into a into shop or to a dog park and next minute all of rescues go to bed nine. So so on that it's not an Icee taste specific. Thing and for listeners in America as as a strand capital. Territories very small state held with the New South Wales. It just holds the camera, which is the capital where I would just kind of rural the polls Titians resort. And I know a city with Cameron, but it's kind of these Feick CD. It's just it's fight city in the middle of no way where I go. Hey, this is with the country runs from. Yeah. Which is literally what I did. There was it was that Sydney. Melbourne were arguing about who was going to be the capital, you know, what will build the city halfway between. And then that can be anyway, which it's not exactly. And there's any big for me like in the middle and everything anyway. So this might be a specific Lauda Heeb. But how does the China custody work with the dog in rescue? So if the dog has been seized, for example, found on the straight or whatever. And then I imagine he's in the custody of the pound with ours. Pay CIO ever use. When the rescues says, okay, don't use an is we believe because of behavioral segments. He's reloadable. We want to take him is he then the custody of the risk us and into the foster care, and he's in the custody like an yet. So the ownership changes of the dog. Yeah. I ship strike from the pound intially once they become the property of the pound, which is eight once they've been in their certain number of days, depending where you are. All if they've been surrendered to the pound, then they get on straight into the foster care as name. So if I got the full security pickup dog, then microchip straight into my name. Right. Right. So you said. You're the foster care, really. In name only earn. Well, you have the dog your dog, and you're responsible for it. And everything that happens to it after that, you might use the term foster care because that separates you emotionally from the idea of keeping the dog. But from the absorb looking from the outside of these your dog, and yet you are responsible for it until you essentially find someone to give it to. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. On the microchip legally responsible until you find it another Harman and sonnet IVA. So we do a three week trial as well for new home. So they can return anytime three weeks for my will take the dog back anytime. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. If we can. And so as a foster care what you said, you just get some people who like maybe do gooders or wanna try out, Dogo, whatever what vetting. Do you have of that lack? Imagine you don't know may turn up and say, hey of just being. Just oh, I've just been posted to camera. I'm new to the area. I wanna be a foster care. What's the process after that we out group defends with every group veasley, but we do like an introductory session where they calm, and they learn all about rescue. So they learn things like the fact that in that way quarantine period, the dole constantly you house. You've got to work out ways to and also that dog might be bringing today's into your house. So you aren't dogs are at risk depending where the designed to quarantaine from your own dogs. If you have them things like that. Also, the behavioral issues that you might expect in that time we talk to them about health hill staff behavior. So in the things that can happen wallet fails to kiss the Demi that you get to your house all that sorta stuff and give them he's the reality jaw. It's not all about playing poppies and having a really nice time and a little the dogs that we get in rescues, especially down here in Cambra. We don't get a lotta small white philosophies. We don't get a lot of really easy dogs. So a lot of big Bill braids lot and just getting expectation around what's going to happen. So we'll talk to you about that. Make sure we come into a house chick. Check that fences a set up that you have a corner Tena rea- a separation let we make all efforts to carry how the separation area. So if anything happens with the dog like can be separated from urine dogs. A kennel or just a way of taking your dog away from the others. Yeah. Yes. I usually some sort of Cipro fenced area or a dog Ron or something like that. That can save a separation if there's a fought, and we need to separate the dogs temporarily while we worked out. Okay. So then good meaning pets short turns up. And I say, yeah, I understand all that. I'm just going to be hanging onto his dog until you as the rescue or someone else in the rescue funds rehome for it. Or is that pot of Morris ability as well. So without we do all the rate harming ourselves different groups do it differently. Like, some of them will have a high Q that takes all the enquiries. And then since the mount to the foster care is who then releasing them. We do it f- elves. So I'll take Oli enquiries. And then choose the harm for the Doug that I've got I tend to like that white bit off of myself because I know the dog that I've got in my K. So I know the sort of harming that needs to go to wanna be able to fit then that it's. Rot home. What's the funnel for that? Like, how do people know that you have that dog? How do they get in contact with you say mainly through website? We've go to our website. He's quite strong. So we get a lot of enquiries earn wave slot now rescue. But also. Risky. That will advertise dogs on behalf of all the rescue groups in camera. That's like a Kossi aisles website where you put foster dog. I put him for our adoption on this generic web. So people can search by breed, maybe a location or whatever normally not breed because a lot of the rescues and moving away from breed identity because it's just not reality. That's good to hear. Yeah. I think a lot of them are going there, which is good. So usually by location size things like that. And then yeah, they can have look in contact the foster care and guy from there. So it's not up to their foster care to be like. All over their own Facebook. Like, hey, come get this done for me something this dog. I this some group so people who just foster for themselves, and and that way, and certainly now we have pretty strong, we go a little Stolz and things like that throughout the year different places and advertise the dogs there and we've got Facebook page Instagram things like that. So people people to Gary generally too fond rescue so good to a pet store. Just arrived in camera at a saw it. I want to be a foster care of guys. You've checked out my house. I'm aware that it's getting to be up to me alternately to decide who the dough goes to is there any training the rest of your provide to me like magin say like it's interesting for me because I know you have known you for years on your at all the events, and I know your dog traina. What happens when all might pets jewelry has no idea turns up, and he's like, no, I've got really good intentions of watched the season Milan books. It right. So there any tr-. Training that's provided to those people. Yeah. So we set you up with a mental salt with we have people like may have been in rescue for a long time usually have some sort of training knowledge, and we'll assist the foster carrot in choosing their foster dogs men. Also, any behavioral issues that come up in sort of period while they've dog we also we have a writing system. So when we go into the pounds and have a look at these dogs, and we do various tests on them to sort of say what sort of harm is gonna these dog. And obviously, we get you know, maybe ten to twenty minutes to do test on a dog who's in a pound, you're only get seven days. So it's not perfect. But it does give a really good picture of. He some of the things you might expect. We'll come up if you take these dog into your heart things like and we do test for raise all Scotty, which is not contentious in rescue. We do it more for the point that if we do see resource guarding dog, then we'll generally say to the false carrots. With kids. Probably don't take these one. Whereas if you don't have kids, and you might have some training knowledge, great, you know, any of these smart adult for year. So what does that tests was that contentious a lot of people don't like the results guiding test one because it studies that have shown that the what they see in. The pound doesn't always come up in the harm. And he's quite stressful. You know, you shopping hand if I can in dog vice it's not reality especially in a confined quarters like kennels impounds generally like it's a tiny little not tiny. Yeah. But but you're right. I mean, there's elevated stress they're already in. It's quite out of fischel is compared to what he's in home. However, all things need to be considered. I guess I mean if you saying trained or behavior dog econ- overrule that it wouldn't happen. If the dog experienced race in as well. Yeah. And that's what it's about. It's about bidding about he's some of the things that you might say. So if you have a problem with dealing with that and don't take the dog. So we give them a writing. So when we test them, we give them a gold, which really easy dogs dogs that could pretty much any harm any family. They should be fine. So that means they usually always good with other dogs. They could PayPal handling all that sort of stuff Silva dogs are dogs who are generally pretty good. I should be fairly good with other dogs. They might just display things like jumping up pulling laid on. They might be strong. They might be really active dogs, Dr dogs things like that. So no major behavior. Issues about just some training stuff that somebody might need to work on. And then there's a bronze dogs member on the dog the dog. So you have some sort of behavioral issue that will need series of work. And so we also right f cares. So if your new in foster, caring, you can really only take where we say you can go dogs really never get go. They always get adopted from the pounds. There's not many of them. So usually tight the golden of the civil over this over dogs with behavior things that I can easily work on and then. Yeah. The silver silver cares can take overall gold. We didn't have a lot of bronze cares. We have people that can do it. But not many people choose to Tyke. Yeah. Yeah. There's a there's a few people that something I can work with because it's a a wonderful dog who's just not good with other dogs. So if you're not leaving with the dogs in harm, then that might be fine for you. So yeah, I can sort of choose. We put them a lot. We have an internal website for efforts to care that. Then they sort of look at them in choose what would suit them. We also have an approval process for efforts to care. So they have to be approved by the committee to be able to take that dog. And what they are looking for is d- have too many dogs that you taking on too much is this adult that's really suitable for your harm. And then okay. So back into myopathy ical of come to camera. You've given me some basic training introduction to rescue. What it is you? This is being able to have a Suva dog bring out that Silva dog and few weeks light out. I say, you know, what I'm capable right now. As a foster. Aw, that's been inducted into your rest. You're saying I only have the. Passive one dog. So I'm out is that you can see to that. Like, okay. This is a good scenario the dog home or you go you mother fucker waste of that till? A beat a Bari always happy. When people find their forever dog unites a dog, it's been saved. It's not dead. It's out of the pound. It's always good. But at the same time, we're always diesel pointed especially if it's a foster care that we were like, oh, you know, you're going to be really good thing that happens regularly. Yeah. Like one of the things having rise dogs to sell that horrifies people that pot with the dog. And and even myself, I have to admit it's only how the first one. Really after that you like get out. But I imagine for a lot of people probably take on the I'm gonna do these foster a dog and just think no capable. Yeah. I think the first one is always the hardest. Like, it's the one way you're in love with these thing, and it's brand new to it. So we get a lotta people that really struggle with the first one, but I think, you know, usually want people get a few under their belt, and once I say how many the whiting to come into rescue. And then they start going God if I get rid of these one can help that nicks one year so for me and all of those may now wait for them to get out. Off just wanna have earn dogs for a little while and have Bryk. So I love it. When that's where I wanna just six question is hell do you identify as a group, and what you do about burn out? Do you have a backup system or a network of looking at for each other? When you starting to experience that cycle of Burnett because the reason I asked this question is because the lady that anew and Melvin, and I didn't know it. Well, I feel a bit guilty of these bit. She committed suicide because she was so involved in the dogs, and she just felt so helpless of what was happening with the dogs and the amount of dogs coming to our nobody was checking on her. Nobody was giving your backup. Look, it probably wasn't the only raise him. But as in her NAR chief noted that it was because of the intensity of the dogs, and she felt so helpless and Atta control that she had no relief from it. And I think that's I think that's a real danger with people in this industry, especially with rescue is that people need help themselves. I mean, we so. When I say way, I'm talking about the people in the industry who are doing this because I'm not trying to include myself on that when I'm talking about is the people who are in these industry who are experiencing that who is looking out for them, who's helping them. And do you find that you it's sufficient or it's not sufficient enough? Yeah. Look definitely an area that needs more work. I think on really lucky now we have a really good system. I think we've been around seventeen knees or something and we've got been camera. We've got a lot of public servants. Are there's a lot of policy and procedure behind everything that we do so approval processes help with things like that. Because Al approvals committee will start to go. You know, you've taken a lot of dogs. You've taken a lot of difficult dogs. We have a rescue subcommittee who made monthly deal with half off to care going. Just a few months ago. We rent a session, we psychologist down here. He's also foster care who talked about burn out and how to help yourself and all that sort of stuff. So we have a pretty good system with the group that I'm with. But it certainly. Rescue these one of the really big really big things that they need to put more work into because this simony, especially the smaller groups people who are rescuing by themselves. There's nobody help them, and it can the more you taking like even for me the group. It's just my Facebook fade is just all my friend at work has got a dog, and they need to get rid of it and you come high off to during your own job. And then you've got foster dogs, and you've got to do all of that. And your are in law. Guilt on top of it, the mail more more guilt more pressure, and that's the danger that people find themselves in. Take on this mountain pressure from society all the time. We'll nobody else's going to take on these dog who's going to do it before it dies. Then you'll feel like well, I'm really straight up got no room and maybe go to bathroom. He I can put another gain. And that's genuinely would've same people doing just thought it just is insane. The amount of dogs. I've had in their home that they have no life. They come home from job already tacked at stressful foam, and then they coming home to another job after everybody else's discarded dogs that everybody else's just throwing away and thought, well, this is somebody else's problem. And these big hotted full has taken on all these dog. And I mean that with respect osteopathi-. Yeah. But they take on all these dogs, and I realized on completely tapped out, and there's no one they fold them. No, one to turn to no one to offer any assistance or any mental reprieve from it. And that's that's. And letting that something that the industry needs to be aware off is that when when we are discussing these dogs, and when we destroying out like an old, I find they become somebody else's problem. And that person is Dan inherited a problem selves in it's really difficult on their own mental health that feel really strongly about and fill like not many rescue. Nope. By any stretch of the imagination. But I've never had never been involved in rescue can talk about like how to get involved in didn't. But this is Tiki light. Is that feel like giving up dog should be more difficult? I feel like we just have to not rescue can impact that. But this should be legislative things in place that like it's you took on this responsibility. You have the capacity to privately rehome dogs. It's not like going to rescues your only hope like there's things you can do for your dog. And I just feel like people need to take more responsibility. If dogs we spoke on the pocus every dog I've earned that needed to be euthanized. Myself because I just feel like that's Marsh. Once I've made this decision for you like, I'm the one that does it. I don't expect that level of commitment to people. But I mean Faulk you've you chose to have a dog because it should be like discarding firearm, right yet, your responsibility. That's right. It's safely stored away with somebody else's gonna take care of it and do the right thing and the need for rescue just in my mind is just outrageous in the idea that someone would get a dog. And then just be like, oh, I'm done with these fucker or have it oaks seized and not trying to get it back. Look, I understand does get saved because of whatever. But then the program co- battle goes on whatever joining the dope back. It just is. So like so foreign to me, and I had friends who have had circumstances change and have had to keep the dog anymore, and as a person in the industry, they come to me and looking I can rehome dog tonight. Maybe because I don't push that don't do it regularly to close friends, but like I can I can put a post on Facebook and that dog will be going, but I understand the rescue to do that. Because you burn out your network you can. How many dogs, but I feel like people should be somehow forced to take that responsibility. So that others don't have to because the people who will just continue to shoulder the burden of others until the it gets too heavy that they collapse under it. Well, they've been doing that with children for thousands of years. Yeah. Exactly. Where people just go ahead have drunken Benda come. I'm go. God. This has happened. No. It's people's faults. I get that. But that's another child that is going to land on the doorstep. If somebody else to take responsibility and hope they don't turn out to be the next serial. We suddenly luck in society. Coach you don't get that. I mean, I know people who've adopted kids in strike that he's nearly impossible to do year is more doctors in their kids to be adopting that it's no this many homeless people and kids on the straight. Yeah. Well, that's people who had towards to their kids. It's a as maybe a different thing. But it really just it's so foreign to me the idea that you would have like, oh, I'm going to get it. Dog and then go now, I don't want you anymore. You're someone else. It would be into all about side. We all have empathy for dogs. That's the thing is that we all have a genuine desire and love to say dogs improved. That's why all of us sitting here. We're all China's I mean you've done the course as well. And you're in rescue and you're on your own successful businesses. But the reason we do it is because we actually love dogs. Yeah. The reason we spend time sitting in this room setting up podcast material is and the subject that we chose to talk about was dogs is because we get dogs. We love them. And the unfortunate thing is is days a myriad of people at their in society. Who do not feel this way? They also so closed off to the thought of loving dog like Bain random people's has show. You have them show. You have Doulos where you doing listen, and you can say the glinting there is of sighing plays decide to get rid of this dog because they've Saint they'll tell you what a destruction doggies, and what a disruption. The dog is too. They live and the fact that they only bought it because they kids winds to them at the time. And it was a huge mistake. And they just begging for you to say get rid of the dog yet because they don't want to be the one to be the bad that they just want someone to say your name mission permission to do it. Yeah. But even those people are better than the people that dislike see light a fucker. I've been the guy and let the doco. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of genuine stories as well in rescue one of the false deductions for the one out of will. I one hundred that I ended up camping Gracie. She had they got a victim from the Harman and couldn't find combination with dog, which is really big problem in the and that's why we say simony dogs in pounds is a combination. So they leave with her and she was nearly forty kilo abroad. Cross they leave with her to adults and forty kilo dog in the back of a station wagon for very before they decided they just couldn't do it to her anymore. That's a bit of a different situation. Really and think. Yeah. But there are. Are a lot of those in rescuing people die and people can't take on the dog this payment and genuine reasons as much as I think a height say PayPal hand dog. Sometimes I think it's it's better for the dog rather them than site. Hey, I'm working. Let's give the dog to somebody who can find it a bit of harm them that being stuck in the backyard height PayPal too because everybody's gonna make me feel like shit that old dog Duggan. Leave it in the backyard for the rest of its life and give it nothing. I mean in ideal world, they do the right thing and train the dog and make it part of the family, but not everybody's priorities of the same as Alfred authorities dog. So. Absolutely with you in that. Because if somebody was a drunken Hobo knocking children around and children got shipped off deliver their ankle and onto the grandparents or something like that it would be disrupted for the children. But in long term, it would be much better for them to go and have a stable home with a loved and careful by somebody who actually does wonder and Ken bay in that situation yet because I mean, I know people who the thought of Cape ING that dog would be ideal. But they just can't I mean having the money to support themselves and be living on on noodles and braid and trying to maintain the law for a dog where it's just not working added to bad bad situation for everybody. And those things genuine raisins like saying PayPal industries, and I sort of things it said that even in those situations, they might feel guilty in my view. Mike in a decision, which is genuinely offer everybody. Yep. And is odd genuine situations. Like what you're describing totally subscribed to that. When somebody identifies I'm gonna shit situation. I'm going to make these dogs live. Hello this child's life. Hell like it is going to complete an avocado soul them really the most loving thing that I could do in this situation is fun. You been? Hi. Yeah. That was talking about before is the fact is that they should at least be. How responsible mate you half y in trying to find a home? I like like saying of got this dog. I really would love someone to take it on all help with whatever. I can. But I can't care for it. On naked capable probably. Yes. Our rescue wave run separate Facebook page to the rescue group that Ray Himes dogs full the public. So the public hold onto the dog. You just advertise it full them. So that's always the first step for offense. What he that wants to surrender that hey, let's try these and it has really good results usually a higher amount for every dog. Obain some that nigga make it, but this plenty of plenty of dogs native fan to harm without having to coming to rescue go through pounds, which is how we gonna stop dogs dying because if not in the pan to start we've they're not going to get youth. Nice. I think it's that those sort of areas that rescue really need to work hard on. How do we one educate the public and getting the right dog to start with and getting the dog that's gonna feed into the harm that they're not going into months and all this and asshole and once a tank, Ron, and I'd on the couch and making sure that those dogs getting to the right harm to start with. Yeah. I think to understanding it more as I think about it. Now talking to you. I think that rescue as an intermediary is probably excellent. Roy like where you have a real case of someone that comes to you and says for whatever reason insert story, he concave the dog anymore. And and the dog never actually has to be you'll custody or is never up in arms about is there going to be a price for these gets that. Yes. The Cape until we find a place for you. You're just a vassal by which the DOJ gets behind. That's a dream world where it's not that they stole going to die. If no one likes it out of the out of the kennel today. Yes. And you don't have to stop it in your bathroom and have some person with a big hot is thin stock as dogs running their own life to do it. And if we could just be there to help, those people have genuine circumstances. Like somebody dies things like that. That's what we'd love to say. He's always. To safety net for this always gonna be some outlaw up scenario one. They won't ask as well. Along with my heart pathetic story is good pets to it has left your rescue. Now. It's six months light. I he's walking down the street with his new DOE cold bubbles. And kost gracious to a halt next to him and says fluffy. Where have you been it's been six months since you left we ran away, and we were on holiday, and no one got in contact with this and suddenly here he is. How's that cost? And does that on? Waller horrendous lock in sometimes it's sometimes it's fine. And it's a dog that you go yet happy, obviously, the second stances will talk to them. What happened? Why wasn't the dog micro-chipped wide? Didn't you go and pick? It up depends on the whole story, and that sort of thing as to the majority of the time the dog, we'll go back to the orient, depending on the second sense. I've had somewhere I ended up giving it back and two weeks later. He's lot. Nah, I want go again. Yeah. It is can be oakwood. You could probably pick that that's going to happen by the post nowadays. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, part of the reason that I probably gave the dog back is always like God knows we're gonna leave. Okay. Yeah. I really want him coming round going. Hey that dogs oldest give it back and make sure that I can heartfully support human often be NAS enough that when he decides again that he doesn't wanna dog that he'll come back to me. Which is what we? Yeah. Yeah. But is have you ever say like a custody dispute player? This are that it's every goal nut fall. But this certainly being some some that have been ended up pretty nasty and taken up a lot of apple volunteers time and people of copped a lot of abuse and threats that sorta stuff so I don't know that I've ever seen one guard court. But yeah, there's been some pretty nasty nasty cases that have come out. Yeah. Because I can imagine it would be a little bit like safe Doug was very homed. And it's a year later, or whatever it's almost like receiving stolen goods. Yeah. You have genuine purpose you rescue dog. I love him. He is in my home. And now the person genuinely lost the dog and circumstance whatever it meant that they couldn't get it back. And then I happen across it in the straight back. Fortunately, the men tree mockery ping like most of them a mockery cheap. They can usually get in contact with the owner, and if the band, he's a log of how many we tied to contact you decide that the dogs. They don't have a lot to stand on when they come back and what my dog. So if we've tried to contact them once after seven days stri becomes the property of the panned illegal. That's what happens you legally. There's nothing to fall back. It's yoga, right? There's just a case of the moral issue of and who is probably going to be best for the dog at that. Exactly. Yeah. Geez. I remind me that movie law in have you seen that before the show destroying maybe this little Indian kid. He follows these probably to work on and he's brother disappears. And he ends up falling asleep on the train, and he wakes up malls malls away from home. And by the time that's done east five or six years old, and he gets sort of chased around and people trying to catch him and put him into all these strange environments. But what they finally do get him into an orphanage and in he he finds himself shipped from India too. Mania 'cause he gets lost in the often system. And he's lighter on these lifelock. He just knows something's not right. And he's live like he knows. He's obviously, he's not they're not real parents. But he says his longing defines mom lucky feels disconnected and a strange from his whole life. And he's just like he's unbalanced and everything is is not right in his life. And he finally finally after years of searching going on the Google maps. He finds that where he's really draws. And he goes back there, and these real mom and co connects with so it's a really good movie. I recommend everybody watch it at least once. Until the ads like on. Yeah. It's like their risk dogs. It was. Risky with humans. On top of this on top of this discussion. What do you say that needs to be corrected industry like way? Do you think we could be doing it better as as a society like your quite immersed in it? Yeah. At the moment. Back to the bear. Now that I'm on the committee, and all that sort of thing in a lot back when all's in public service and could do a little bit work while of that work. It was like, hey, but now, you know, in in my new job, I'm way to busy my dog's getting old off. So I'm sort of taking a bit of a back step because tycoon to turn macho took on dogs that had a lot of behavior issues. I think once you become a traina all of a sudden, you know, you go. Yeah. We'll probably fix that. And so you end up taking dog seen and taking more and more trouble dogs. We'll go to too much luck just constantly training. Everybody else's dog. And and mine poke suffered as a result of that. So yeah, I'm sort of getting out of that. But I think definitely for rescue groups. I think they need to start looking at running more like businesses. I think at the moment they run on the smell of an oily rag. They constantly pleading for money, and they taking dogs that they can't afford. Heard they taking dogs that they don't have places for. Whereas I think if they rented a little bit more luck business, and there's always going to be a big volunteer factor. You can never sing is never gonna have enough money to pay everybody. But if they can pi- a some stuff just to take a bit of the Lord off of the foster cares and things like that. I think it would just run a little bitter and making sure that the police in procedures in place that, you know, make sure that people aunt taking on too much and an really running Lockerbie business. I think that's one of the best things that risky do for it. Self to to really help stop things like Barron out, and and the financial factories huge just flipping the sky on this little bit of saying how the situations where people have and it started off in a place of love. So I'm not battering these people for the white turned out. But what then happens is they they take on a dog. And now the dog another dog and the dog and before they know it they they've collected like an amassed an amount of dogs, and I become like the crazy cat lady. Who's got a houseful of cats and these cats are all like living in squalid conditions, and it's the same thing sane in dogs way. These like twenty dogs in a backyard that really is only suitable for three or four dogs at based yet based and is twenty dogs run the Roman around the plight shitting on top of each other. And are there in terrible condition because they coat the stuff. They're not aiding the ROY Amana food, but the person is convinced that they're doing it for the. Raisins, they taking on more and more and more. And I think the very real dangerous Ziv taken a mad of compromising position and put him in a brand new one if not possibly and potentially worse than the one removed from I think that that situation. It self is something that needs to be highly identified in that. These people have begun with with good intentions, but they've they migrated into something that he's a little bit precarious. Yep. Definitely. Yeah. We say, and I think it's the same. As can you provide? The it's got to be the same for foster care as the new Harlem's. Can you provide the training? Can you provide the enrichment all that sort of stuff if it's only a wake way all hi, I'm going to be really busy this week? But after that I can provide this dog what at needs. But if we're just jamming dogs into foster care, and it's the wrong harm for them. Like, the Dogo got at the moment. I'm struggling with majorly because she's hard-drive dog. She needs the exercise autumn provide at the moment. And because she wasn't one that I charge. She was a a ROY Moore is a ten week puppy. She's come back as an eight month old Kilby Meeks, and who needs to any Columba's die. None of us can do that. It's just as important to get those right dogs into the foster care because otherwise I end up with. In the same shitty situation as they were before. So really important to all that sorta stuff and make sure that you foster care up providing for the dog and training the dog we do a lot of training with foster care. So we we've had site tomorrow from underdog east to come up to camera lot. She comes up most us and runs. A workshop forest may have had cats owned. We've had Trish Harris. Gary Jackson, a lot of fun. So where you bring China's to camper every year to run different workshops on. We've done anything from behind you stuff to noise work telling touch so trying to educate cares. They have a little bit more knowledge and making sure that they are providing for the dog daycare. I think is really important addicting enough rescues do trying to care. When important really important for my point of view. I think that that's an Allen they had that's that's really way October industry. Paypal and must be the people listening to this can assist in rescue is not getting bogged down in to heavily self. But assisting knows paper with training advice. And that may and may have fantasized about like, a some sort of organization that donates meals to rescues and engines to. How to use them? You know, you look at maybe L might Jason feminine can get involved. I mean, it would be like could you imagine say ours? Pay who happened to have a few hundred million dollars lying around could facilitate putting a meal and education on how to use that every rescue. And then imagine you behavioral systems, it would be probably have completely different outcomes dogs in the kennels had an outlet. So like, you know, he's an example from my life. I was at payroll. It's one time talking to the goals about how I can't stand dirty dogs, the dogs Putin in their own kennel that disgusts me. And I was like I just couldn't keep it like that. I was talking about if I couldn't trying it out of the dog. Of course, I kid, but I was talking about. Oh, it's disgusting. I would never have a dog that did that. And all the goes up resorts looking at me in Craigslist rim Coney potty. And I was like what are you looking at that? And they said your dog is the most fucking disgusting dog that we KP in the kennel shits all over the place and has approved hot. Wash. Washing every night. And I was like what? And I had no idea. Yeah. Now, that's just one anecdote, right? But that tells you that he sleeps in a box at home. He has a kennel that he's from John the time, and he has never in his loft piece shit in the box. And so that tells me just that one thing that he's a different dog when he's in the kennel, this is when he's at my home. And so behavioral assessment would show that she's in the county euthanasia, but he's a different. And I I'm convinced that so many dogs that pound and have behavioral assessment that is a snapshot in time at probably the worst time in that dogs fucking law. He's never been in a worse situation is and that is when we're going to decide you suitable for what are you like as oppose imagine being locked in us elation tanks? That haven't been all slide KENDALL before new life. Yeah. Get put him on for wake. And now I'm going to make it decision on your personality. But imagine that you in the kennel eight because this certain things we can't we can't China. You have to store these somewhere during this time, but every day you introduced to a meal correctly and chances I for an bully braid cross. But every day for ten minutes, you get to sprint your gutsy out on the mill just that alone. Even if those no control work, even if there was nothing else available to but you just got to just blast off the energy that you'll building up in that kennel. I personally believe in have no evidence for this other than dot. But I totally believe that every would be assessed differently. Definitely if it look at look at little rats when they get the little spinning wheel they get to run on there and just print that got out. I mean, it gives them something do than just walk around the conference crazy. Yeah. That's right. They get an outlet during that one thing just like a couple thousand bucks because meal you get like a good meal and thanks Mike want specifically a risky one that he's industrial to the industrial doesn't need the bills on whistles, solid steel. And like it's locked to the grand and every ten minutes on you said you. Getting a mill delegating meal yet the business. I wake fo pops fun. We getting tomorrow. So we do a little stuff with rescue think about twenty five stall offals to cares. So we've always the owner is really supportive of rescue groups and brings in we were always bring in dogs sometimes off the room is L foster. Just supportive. Yeah. Yeah. Well, she's a foster care as well. So we try to do what we can still gonna run a business and client dogs in. But we try to do what we can to help the rescue dogs if it's woke dyke hero, especially the poppies. We really work a lot with the puppies and making if we can build them to be strong resilient and confident than we're not going to say them in a pan lighter. So that's why we tend to focus a lot of L load of our activity on this lot meal tested at just the other day at Cameron life. These dog just had twenty minutes of running. He would attested soggy friendly, quote, just reactive you could just see old is pinned up energy. When Randy Spain put him on the mill, and like, he's just in that fucker state of mind getting put him on the mill and just letting runny Scott set, and he's a different dog after he's off it. Yeah. Like just say like it's almost like relief. He can you can say all the stress and all the it's not stress. It's just energy lock. It's. Pent up energy. It's like a steam coca ready to explode. And the mill gives him that out to let him do that. Because he's not a die that he wants to do work. But it's not available for him. You know, and I do waiting, but it's he wants more than that. And I can just tell aids more than that. So I put him on the mail. We do some running leading the tug at the end of it. And it's like complete relief. Like he gets off. If he could talk to me, if I could actually interview him and speak with immed- side, dude that was that was it you just tap the Nile raw on the head with that that was eight and you can say the why he walks back to the house he's tails up he's contained you know, he gets in the yard. And then he doesn't run ran balking. He's he's at pace with himself. So really has given him a child. Are you familiar with dogs love it? Yeah. Yeah. I was really impressed with her when I went to the pay last year. And I mean, look I got like a snapshot of who is but I think that what her and attainment doing over. There is just incredible and Jijel Spain heavily involved in providing enrichment for them. And there's probably a lot of other people who have as well. And that's what pet was referring to before is that there are many of us that are capable of doing that top thing offering help and assistance and and doing it gratis as well like helping out and making it available to the people who are on the front line who aren't getting paid themselves. I think that's an incredibly congestion for people who are doing so much because it really is in many cases, it's very thankless career. I or whole inheritance Foto you that off how dogs Serie wind numerous windows got one wool. I still haven't fixed down to the stud work, and it's and you're going to that. Yeah. Yeah. Big halls. One dog chewed up the floor can't listings, laptops, shoes. Computers. It's just ROY. And that's on the person who does the foster work to those calls. That's part of the damage that you say, oh, always in the situation. And and a lot of people don't recognize they don't understand the the personal turmoil. That these people do go through because they partners will come home and say, well, that's another fucking thing. The dogs wrecked and remind them on a daily basis like y'all doing this. You took that on it. You know, it's your responsibility. Now, it's costing us money. So there's a lot of that mounting stress comes to so in a lot of cases, I've got absolute respect for people in these in the rescue industry. They big how fools in a lot of ways. They really are. No, it's not. I'm not I mean, somebody has to do it. Somebody has to do it. Like, it's like people like mother to raise up when she looked after so many often people inside fall like that somebody had to do it. Somebody's got to step up because a lot of people wind, and to be honest, put myself in that Bosco, I did a little bit of it. But I don't do a lot of it. Because. I'd have to there's a degree of selfishness day because I just leave it a boarding kennel where I gotta go down and deal with other people's dogs. I get paid for this wrong. But still going get up at three o'clock in the morning when dogs the balking all distress because I've Shuten bad not gotta go and clean, the shoot off all them guy back down. So I do know what it's like to be have an inconvenience in those type of things. But I mean, my own home is not Bain chewed out from the inside out by adult that I've just brought in because it's going to be on death row tomorrow, and then disease I've had Povey virus through my hands. Right. Puppy to vote, and I'm working in a daycare. So the quarantine that I had to put myself through to ensure that all wasn't bringing anything anyway NIA like the community lodge at all. But especially my business law Becky out. Well, fortunately, we do a quarantine anyway. So the poppies had on any in really small area of my house lead big corner tainting there. So it wasn't as difficult as defied had got them and let them run throughout the whole house and Yod, but yet still dealing with two poppies who both had power. And and what happens after that? It's just it was horrendous mental anguish to it's not just the physical thing that you're going through the work you're doing it's the actual mental stress that you're in during that time 'cause you dealing with the dying puppy in another one that's possibly gonna go. I think the long term stress on that is the idea round so small you can just see with you cleaned up all the now. So you like do the best you can. And you just hope. In the next the next poppy comes to younger, f tend my house to the point that it's like, it's eight and three months flow boards. Football at the front door. And then again, the call like all McCloy is would get changed before winning to the ballroom disaster and concentration anxiety for months afterwards. Wondering winds are gonna come back, and it's the same behavioral stuff. Sometimes you have to as a dog for behavioral raisin the not to get out in the community. And and I think it's even worse now the train away just enor- a lot more about what's happening in sometimes so hot after that decision, which I've done a few times, and it's just could potentially fix that problem to the point that we're not going to say it right now. But can I actually put that into a horror movie the normal person that potential time bomb? Yeah. Yeah. It's thought big decision to make. But that that's what I think this so much it's important with your skill level involved in in the the rescue. Ulster where because you know, you say this. Certain restaurants in situations where just about saving the dogs at any cost. Yeah. And I put dangerous out into the community. Just a time bomb waiting till K and responsibility yet. Going volved in training. So when assaulted out of the foster care and doggone writing anything about Dole's horrendous and a foster dog attacked my dog dusty, and I will just regret that for the rest of my law. I feel so much guilt. That idea not say the signs that something was going to happen. And I had a train come to my house, and she's wonderful. She's German very to the point. And she was live with these fault you 'cause this why didn't you say this? And I was like oh my God. What have I done? And so yeah, then I was like well shit. If I'm gonna be of secure on to go away and learn about these can't have these happen again to my dog. Yeah. Fortunately, he was fallen this surgery cost of surgery again for me. So that was another good thing. But yeah, like, it certainly made me help and go on to a need to learn about dogs if I'm gonna do this. So something you just touched on having had to use an odd Stokes that you've made that call on pretty sure we've sat on the Pocock. I've been a never hidden. This fact, you know, not all dogs are for right? And before people start getting into anger about that say not PayPal for these. And and so how does that play into the modal like because the truth is some dogs have been a genetically psychopaths? That's totally possible can happen. And yet kinda yoga's luckily to end up in a rescue all have been turned into something that resembles a psychopath, and he's probably pasta point of help yet. And then there's the other the economies of scale. So there's really three reasons why wanna might have to euthanize. You don't I that it just like I can't be helped. It's been built into one or that it just is equipped be in infinite time and resources. Now, how does that play into the model and the burn out and all that sort of thing? It's a big one. I think eats festival because we do that initial tests on the dogs loose dogs don't making into the program. So people don't choose the dogs that again, obey the Sokha paths. All I get filed out before they getting a lot of them daren't, Mike it, but when they do we have. I think the fact that we've given so much training to foster care his inaugural anyway has caused a lot of us to go out. So I think we have maybe Neely seeks in trained false cares. Cool even more and we are time. We'll go Vern have looked at the dog. Okay. We'll he's what's going on or we can fix. They say easily owner we can't. Always Pifer China to come and have the dog and Mike an assessment and now work together with the foster care too. With our dog is appropriate for these for these world or not. So we'll usually put them through training process. I obviously sometimes in the cases of where they has been fought. So when the foster dog attach- my dog, and we had trying to come in and have look at it. And she said we'll yet he's he's the issues that are happening in. He's he's what happened, and and we to came to the conclusion that that dog wasn't safe to be out in the community, and that's not only based on behavior. But also the dog was a fence jumper. So the fact that we couldn't keep dogging that was going to make any sort of behavioral issues Hotta trait. So we'll have a we'll have a trying to come in and help the foster care in this. Whether the dog is fixable suppose, you'd say, and then we also have a committee who then saw off on euthanasia. That's where that's what I wanted to find out. So. It's not like no one person gets to that Cole on the rescue. It's a committee decision. Yeah. And how many people on that committee? Well, the main rescue committee that we have I'd side is about six or seven people. And then there's an approvals committee who the main committee will allies decide on euthanasia. So it's usually seven wounding two, and there that's a community of volunteers that just being through the rescue and have been appointed to that committee yet, but probably fairly experienced people that are doing this. Yeah. Not always a lot of dog experienced bought. They will come from the lawful a lot of policy. Experiencing thoughts are. Judgment is respected very much. Sorry. That's good. Yeah. And that airing any dirty laundry of your on rescue. Have you ever had a fracture in that community way of the Niger of a dog with some people pro and some are against if you can talk about it? Probably not usually most people were respect the fact that usually a trainer in and the foster care come together and go. Yep. Unusually because we have a community of China's without any group. So at least in Illinois and a few of us all get together. And go off saying that always well and not that it's a great idea. So we're lucky in that respect that we have Sarmi people to draw on and you talkin about some switched on people there. Absolutely. Time. We'll move the dog from the particular foster care into one of our harm. So both Illinois. Lisa do Borden train now. So sometimes they'll take the dog for a board and train just to go cable at say what it's locking different home and different harm environment. Put some training into it. And see how we go off to that. So we'll always do as much as we can obviously to avoid Asia about times we go just not not safe. We've got to go to make that decision. Now. Usually the the foster care in the trainer come to that decision together and never easy. I went to many easy. Go went to a big rescue. It wasn't a seminar. But it was. Event at Sydney, Uni many many rescues there, and they had I've never been in rescue of networking rescue about just went really to try and understand it a little bit better. And they had coined of AVI jewel. I guess for all the does that cats that they couldn't help, and it was actually really emotional. There's a low really upset people in the room that you know, like not being a part of it. When I got like, I'm at the crazy cat, lady convention lack. It's thought I was at. But then sitting in that, and I was like sort of a new respect for how hard people trying and it made me on. I think that's really why I went was to try and understand how people help people were allowing themselves to put out dogs that really should have been euthanized. And then when I got a feeling for the volume in the scale of dogs that they were spoke to one woman that told me she had personally killed like hundreds of dollars. And I think she worked at a very large. And I was like, you know, like, exactly. Was confronting. I I gave me written appreciation for when I say a dog that think fuck these stoke shouldn't be at. I could say, well, I can understand how you get to the point of putting it because you just like fuck note, another one, and if it's a borderline case, then we'll give you the benefit of the debt on your first you like, no borderline, Casey. Yeah. Sometimes it comes down to just the resources at the time. So you know, we might have dog that potentially. If we had somebody who could take that dogging into really intensive work with for month tour could really huge straw. And sometimes we just don't have those people resources, you're not or you're that person. Yeah. Gary much location thing, isn't it time. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, we we've touched on quite a few times. And I think it's it's a very important message that getting back Twitty's referring to what you talked about. There's a lot of times looked and I would have probably a young guy going into those sort of things you probably mock those people inside alcohol, look at them pathetic. But they really not they had the sole kicked out of their body that people who have who really bane in the trenches on the front lines in working with this stuff, and that Bain stood on and tread on the night bang giving up on haven't had support. And I haven't had people looking after him and die themselves are in a very precarious situation. We've done a podcast on this before we've talked about people needing to take care of themselves. And this is certainly something that people within our industry need to bay more highlighted and aware of is that people within the foster caring situation within the risk you communities. They really need some checking on from Taunton that really need someone. A you encouraged to say that for people who say dropping in behavior a little bit wherein, carriage decide. Oh, my you think that that should be a message that should go for mayo community into the foster on welfare because not enough of that is done. And as I said, I'm not gonna make that she was a great friend of mine, and it was a thing. But having that light Tyco law female them when I was back there in that Tom that was a long time ago. And the fact that she highlight it was because of the the distress she saw in the never ending cycle of dogs coming in and being destroyed, and she just felt so helpless and stuff like that. That is always resonated with me like it's always been like a little bell in the distance just here in in conversation. Sometimes I'll just think, oh, that's that's resonating a little bit. Like that note that that was read out. Why back when and I think we just need to be a little bit mindful capable of that. I think will all this. If you're listening to these pocus, you're at the minimum dog enthusiast. Everybody everybody. No one's cruising. We're not flicking channels as apoe cost everybody. That's listening is involved in dog. And I think that something that I came to terms the wall ago because of being. Have had some issues we risk groups in the past. Going into too much details. I had a risky groups say that they had a dog that braid and I have a better off. Yeah. And then when I contacted them they refused to like refuse to get back to me, and the concept, it's some people that just bat shit crazy. But then it's a personal thing. I've seen some rescue groups that the concept is fantastic. It's just that the person that the helm is bad. She crazy, and that's the problem. But I think as enthusiast China's all of us and people in the industry, you have to go you have to be involved in the thing that that stood makes the hair on the back of your next hand up. So I know there's people that lay in bed at not thinking about all the dogs that need rescuing. And therefore, that's what they have to address where to go not. But you know, what I bet it keeps me awake. He's thinking about these people that have incredible dogs that had just turning food into shit like so that's where I've long you said it was way flaws. That's where I put my efforts in the industries like, and that's what I think about is people who have performance athletes that they did not allowing to perform and. Yeah. And so you have to all of this. But we're all important in the industry, I'm site like without people like me that are interested in getting the performance from dogs, then Doke SAFA just as much different SAFA. But it's it's it's still suffering that thing left to being bred for a purpose, and given, and that's what I'm obsessed with a love without going into detail and working on this resource at the moment. I'll tell you guys about it off. But it's about trying to convince the general populace to get their dogs into something like an activity that is full. They all I think these podcasts paint successful in reaching out to a lot of people doing doing with their dogs. Like, you know, the box in the mill, and and just a lot of things that we've been talking about this more more people, they're realizing, hey, that's that reminds me when we were off air before setting up. We're talking about people that Abon in the. Wrong time. And I think that's that subject to a lot of dogs at born into the wrong family will they allocate to the wrong family. They not living their true potential some people in life. They should have been avoiding or spot and or something like that. We'll talking a lot of the guys on goes in the army with would would have had far fooling laws had they been Roman gladiators. That would have died floors -ly to spend old training to kill PayPal. And then spending time killing people, and they would have been happy people. But your dead, right? It's the same. Does we've spoken about this at the time. Like if someone had if average person had RIMI Huby unionized in a kennel, oh, he'd be on Prozac bombed out he'd be he'd be a slave on. He'd be Medicated half out of his law office leap when someone's catch. Randy would be the same. But for me the dog that I've waited nine years to get sold out and went through many dogs before I found him. So it's horses for courses. And that's where I'm really that's where my passion dogs lies. That's what keeps me awake at night. It's people who have performance athletes that note allowing to perform. But it certainly don't feel for people who think about the dogs that I just don't have a family, and that is with they go that is, but we all made h other we all need each other absolutely network, work everywhere or check the story for second talking about Randy like, I've never seen that dog really relaxed these law like he doesn't even break all sleep relaxed, Braise any slave he brays like he's just run Ronald rice. And so. The whole time since he's a little puppy. He's always on the sign I had to take him to the vet the other day, and I had to tranquilize him because he entities tile. They had to look at it. And he wouldn't let him look at it because it was quite painful, and when they tranquilized him. I'd never seen that dogs. I actually thought he given him too much and he died. I had never ever sane Randy. So it pays before my lifelock. I was actually starting to go through shit just come on. But he was so painful, and he was in such a slumber state that it's just something completely foreign to what happened because I said to the vet is, okay. She said, yeah, we should be he should like these. And I said that's not normal for him. And she said that's how a normal dog should bay when they. Yeah. Said for Randy. That's not. That's not right. And she goes, well, she said, you're just got one of those hugs, and we say those dogs in pounds. And that's where we saw lucky to have places like army who take detection dogs, where we go sees that somebody in normal arm that he's a horned that you'll rescue is facilitating that type of thing because there are other rescuers or the HOGAN is Asians that are not. And I mean, the head of our dogs to go into servitude. The they have the hide, and I think it's it's very responsible. I think that the people who sitting at the head of those organizations really need to rigs Emin the whole policies and procedures to say no to adult that is potentially going to sit in a little four by to age where that dog could be running out, and that that is a dog like the people were talking before that is far better being spot or Roman century in than sitting locked up going crazy in a kennel deciding it's fight. Either the next two years or threes or four years or even euthanizing it when it could be out serving the country or helping people living fulfiled law. We've talked about him on the show the best detection dove, ever say in real life was t Pratt our pay and the nines. Byerly? They met the handlers. Message. His name was. By the best detection dog by the light is on. And he was a he was just a pound oak. And I'm pretty sure the selection process for him was they they said first of all dot com. Aggressee now that okay, I get us all those dogs put them in one area. And they just throw a tennis ball amongst the dogs and a mood with the bowl. And like take him turned out to be the best that the army's ever had. It's amazing. What you what you'll find in? The pound really some of the dogs are just amazing. They have potential potential should be exercised. If it's I mean, if the dog has been discarded and people looking for an application for that dog, then it should be given to the role should be awarded. And that's the issue like a really wound up about it. Especially after what we talk about this morning, Glenn like that that in the kennel assessment. And how we sit dogs off a success. And there's so many things at the pounds of things can do just that like my own dog this morning a little saying he's staying Glenn's 'cause we down here in. Umbro put him in the kennel. He turned around and looks at me like a weed wagging towel. And as soon as I go to shut the door flies at me and trust the boy. Like it's play. I mentioned that was these first assessments. That's the one who doesn't know the dog. And he's going to do the same thing to them. It's just a game that he likes to play. It's the as you decide to shut the door on going to jump on you shut the door. That would be dubbed the interview because he's a big powerful dog that he's notified to notify us me. Now, he's he's play while he's doing it. And it's not like he'd beat me realize my dog. But that would be the end of that would be that would be. And that's because it's just he likes to fuck around and get draws crazy in that. We lucky hearing camera we've got a employed like a I don't know what officials haughtily is. But she does enrichment and organizes all that sort of stuff for the kennels. I'm Bev, I think she's recently done with you, actually, Glenn, and she maybe it was male when so she looks after enrichment and then finding suitable so if she gets a dog in Gernon, they've Mago sus. I think she might onto mills wanting Melvin. So she provides the enrichment they run a voluntee- walking program, which is notice lot meal. But you know, it's something it gets. Amanda, their pants just as good if but it's just more time, consuming, vibrant. Yep. Yep. And a whole lot of cheese. God bless them. They try really hard. But sometimes get up sleet shit outta me. When he's working. But yeah, they they tried to do as much as they can. And in the pan is obviously different to shelters. Wells the panda working dogs running day for seven days. I'd love to say to do more flat meal top stuff, but with us several hundred million dollars you have lying around. Maybe that would be a worthwhile investment main does. Yeah. Well that is the job. That is the case. Then are really. Yeah. You right. Then you know, that that shouldn't. I'm not involved in the books, and I don't know what happens today, but I know that they run out of surplus and could afford to bossom meals with people, and at as a worldwide organization ASPCA's could probably sit up of fucking plant that manufactures mills and at the at the right that I would have the capacity to manufacture them. They could rearm every Doug with one walk marketing Powell is enough that enough people would guy. This is what we need is how much it's gonna call. Look I'm getting angry about maybe no one's approached for. Maybe if someone actually put it to them, they high grad idea, and they do it. But when we don't know. Hey, tell us about this place. So people can know where to get in contact with you. And if they're in camera. They can yeah. No way to bring the puppies to get a haircut. Yeah. Pops fun. We've got grooming salon in Fisher in Queanbeyan. We run daycare. We're not doing any training at the moment. We all got to swat having several ATF traina where all too busy doing things. So if arming out training at the moment, but we do a lot of training as pot of all the services we do. So how daycare is actually any like ten to fifteen dogs, and we do training, and he's a cool stuff throughout the day socialization and confidence building and all of dyke has taken a lot dogs. They were reactive things that who learning to lending to socialize. So. Bicyc- premises socialization creating confident resilient social dogs. Yeah. And if they want to your risk us grew. ICT rescue foster foster dogs dot org on the website have local can have a look at how our website works. Yeah. Just probably not directly to the directly on their perfect, but towards Dulles people donate what where the expenditures go to mainly that work that works. Probably the biggest. Account. Remember how much was the? But it's. The money. I think it was around the fifty thousand month. Yeah. So if it works the main one and in things like trainers. So we buy everybody that comes. We're not redoing expect trenice to give everything for free running business just like him other people. So we pay all the trainers that come so training that sort of stuff boarding, we need it might that work is the main one and no one profits from do none of the board or the or anyone get any any money. But that's not if anything else you'd short on money. Yeah. Money. Have you Himes cows destroyed? Turned upside down, but for listeners around the world sometimes on a lot of people do want to donate to adult friendly 'cause and it can be hard especially with some of those bigger organizations to. Yeah. Know, whether you're buying someone in new Ferrari, or or whether you're actually helping and weaken batch for you, you can batch for your rescued that if anybody really wants to do good for dogs and have a little bit of extra money that I would like to to give to Ugo is on an ongoing or one of or whatever, and we can, you know, encouraging. We're not saying anybody shoot or mast, but if you have extra money, and you want to know for sure that it's going to the betterment of dog summer in the world, and you guys are career to give that hape the great rescue groups in astrology away. Really really lucky. Fuck them. We're talking to you. Before we do wrap up. What to do wanna say is people? Probably listen to the podcast and say, hey, Glen, cook made it sound really glorious debate involved in rescue. And that's not always the case. There is there is very rewarding aspects to being involved in rescue as well, there's a great network of people, and there's a very good camaraderie and good collaboration of excellent people involved in these industry. And I'm fortunate enough to know a lot of people who do it like yourself and several other people who do run a very taught cheap, and they do a great service for the industry, and they wouldn't want it any otherwise some of these people just us so toilets and giving time in love and community energy to enhancing the life of dogs that other people have discarded all of us in the room guys with that sighing. We really appreciate your your your resolving somebody else's discarded an unwanted dog and giving it a loving life and giving it a very very healthy second chance, I really. I mean, if it hasn't been really made it sound horrible. But no it says much good. When you say you dogs in harm's during really all you need to make it all with it. And while the purpose of this Kostelic people like you and leagues of other people who are doing it right for unselfish motives, Pat, you on the back and say, thank you very much. It's because of you that a lot of these dogs got a second chance and a lot of people have got a new loving pit in the Highmore service industry has got a dog that's helping save the country or in various different situation. So I think a really do appreciate anything. Thinking that foster caring. It's you learn sorry March for people who up and coming trainers and things like that. You learn the theory in the f the behind this ought in the health on all that sort of stuff is just stuff of length through this is the next dog. That's the next problem in my house and go to work it out. So it's definitely as far as learning more about dogs and saying how they interact and every time I bring new dog harm. It's a learned something new. Eighties. Great for that. It's not for everybody going say every China should foster dog. But this only all sorts of different ways they can help. But it. Yeah. You do learn a lot. If if you can do it give it a go and learn how it happens gross on that some site advice. Thanks for your time. Thanks things becoming camp. You welcome me into it and paint. And there were no friends, no friend personal friends in one day guy. There is few hours. He starts it'd be the long either by the time you see this. All right. I'm gonna wrap it up. That's for another episode of the Canan paradigms as always if you like what he plays lock, right? Share? Subscribe do that through whatever subscription. So's downloaded from and doing that really helps us get the word out there. And let's more people about the show if you want to support the show the best way to do that is a patron three bucks a month. Get you access to an extra educational episode per month. And we started sneakily trickle extras to people who of a more. So that's good. Yeah. We've got the ten dollars. Ten dollars all live doing laws. Aim on a live once a month. Pantelis pencils? So we're going to pay down in the next episode. And also in the twenty there is. That's. Surprise, not just just gonna. Say there's going to be a little surprise in the near future and the twenty. Yeah, that's perfect. That's the taser. Yeah. All right up. About music.

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19 Why BCC has a Preschool with Cara Rigsbee

Beavercreek Christian Church

32:13 min | 1 year ago

19 Why BCC has a Preschool with Cara Rigsbee

"Welcome to the beaver creek christian church podcast. This is the audio archive of for my. We do this weekly to come alongside you as we take this journey together because we want you to always remember. We're on the a journey with you. Everybody welcome back to the b._c._c. Podcast <hes> do shetler and i'm here with karen grigsby cara rigsby eh. She's our director of a p._o. L. c. will even tell you what that means in a little bit but before we do some things he's going on that. I want to remind you about we've got popcorn. Festival is just around the corner. We need you to sign up. You can do that online go to beaver creek christian dot org. There's a link right on the front page. You sign up you can sign up your worship on sunday but we need you to sign up fill fill all the spaces that we need in order to <hes> <hes> make it a great popcorn. Festival children's area also have a <hes>. Welcome lunch for all of you <hes> that may want to connect neck of that. It's pretty much filled up at this point but if you wanna get into last minute you can probably do that. If you give us a call right away <hes> hand and <hes> we get all kinds of other things going on. Please check the website. Check social media sites <hes> in <hes> and we'll tell you as much as we can and if you've got questions don't it don't hesitate to give us a call so well like i said i'm here with cara and she is the director of peo l._c. So carol tell us first of all. What does healthy mean it means precious ones learning center people call it poke people lots of different things precious ones precious ones learning center. I always think of like those little figurines from the eighties. Yeah yeah that's awesome. Awesome should have those in your office now our offense nice time yes so i'll say around the around the church with people in the congregation and they'll say what did you say. I think i'm saying it fast. I think it's all my fault now. See what what was the when. I say oh it's our preschool. Let's not actually just right right right so it's preschool elementary care summer camp inclement weather care school closure care. It's a lot of different things things so. Tell us about kind of the history. How did how did peo- elsie precious moments. How did it get started <hes> and when we come up to date rat now well. I don't know a lot of the history except that i know that penny babcock's started the ministry tree and the church that grew from just a few kids to right now. We're at one hundred and forty families. Some of them have siblings <hes> so were you now great numbers in such <hes> i know she started at an just. It's just taken off as something that our community needs. This is support <unk> familial support so yeah it's it's been great so <hes> we have hundred hundred hundred forty forty on forty kids gracious yeah in that hall in place okay so you know we have like the mccoys have three kids right so so you have a hundred forty families correct where you fit them all while there's a little all dance that happens downstairs where preschools from you know eight forty five to eleven forty five we have daycare kids that stale day okay we have <hes> before and after school care for all the beaver creek elementary south <unk> dance of families coming in and out of the building at all times so just just drop them off or yes beards or buses buses either yeah yeah you guys go get kids to we do. That's what we use all lose pretty buses outside so you go to l. Everyone of the winter schools valley will bring kids here as well dell's fair brooke because we're within their district. We're within valley's district. We won't give the backstory on forever but <hes> we go and pick up at parkwood and shy we pick-up at trae buying and we pick a bit main so <hes> it's it's a lot of fun. It sounds like a little bit like controlled chaos awes- oh. It's always controlled christmas. Claro is tells me that i have blake this. <hes> what do you call circus like the the ringmaster avenue ringmaster and just all born. It seemingly sounds and i feel it some days. One second year plunged in the toilet and the next second when you're taking care of kids and the next second you're driving the bus and it's always controlled chaos downstairs so you you fit in and fill in wherever you can higher level duties administrative and all that stuff i sit and licensing and fire marshall and all that stuff lockdown drills employee management. It's a lot of paperwork but then when they need you you kind of like on the bus driver. I'm the former. I'm the i'm the bathroom break. I'm i need to go and get my water bottle out of the car. I'm the you know terry and i put the stuff on on the playground. You know we just it's kind of one of those jobs like terry. We do a lot of things around the building. Yeah yeah yeah. I remember when the conversation in staff meeting about you guys. How are we going to get the those heavy objects into the pfleger out yes <music> and luckily we had some subcontractors to help with that. Oh that was nice. That's a so so tell me about what all <hes> what what's been sort of rewarding for you. I mean that you you do all this work. It's controlled chaos in a what but you don't do it because you just you kind of like to take punishment you do it because there's there have been success stories if you will there have been things that happened that like this is why i do what i do and just the the way that families come in and say thank you like oh my gosh. You've you've taken care of my child. You've called me when they're sick sick. You've smiled at us as we walked in the door. You've made connections <hes> we're all about connections downstairs where all about you now just trying to be a we know. The parents have to work. <hes> and we're just trying to support community as best we can so we've had great success stories. <hes> we've had kids that have come in that have been kicked out of other centers for behavioral issues issues and things <hes> we had a boy a couple years ago that came in that had been kicked out of different local centers and his parents were really struggling with behavior super great family <hes> and then it turned out. It was a medical issue. Oh go so the child had some g._i. Issues and it turned out that the behavior was a direct result from this physical medical issue then and we just very patiently day after day after day and <hes> just went alongside this family and supported them in communicated with them and <hes> they just laughed <hes> a few weeks ago they. The boys went back to school their two sons in there. There's still old enough to be in our program are eligible for our program but they've found different <hes> care because of this will change in hours ars and things that they left and they're coming back next summer for care and she was like i don't know what we would have done without you that you were so patient with us and just went alongside us and helped us figure this out and helped us just offer consistent care for him an it was bad at times sure it's been a it's a great success story on just being able to connect with that family so so the other senators kick them out for behavioral act that were connected to this medical stuff. Yes what what what caused peo- l._l._c. to be more patient. <hes> we <hes> these brontosaurus assistant director does <hes> conscious discipline. She has a she used to work in buffalo as a discipline like she did a lot of behavioral help for kids and it's kind of our philosophy that a kid can walk in the door in a bad mood. You know maybe it's they didn't have the right cereal or you know. Kids are very fickle and you just we just need to sit down and make the connection with them and figure out what's going on and try and help them turn it around and we're all about communications so so you know it's it's even with this child. I just mentioned i mean he would sit in a room and we'd close the door and he'd throw chairs that was his thing and he gets so ticked in the rest of the class would leave and he would throw chairs enlarges set with embraer half hour calm down and we'd move on while we were patient enough to say that you're fine. You're safe. Everybody loves you. Work it out and let's move on right. I'm not going to judge you for free or behavior. I'm actually you're a kid. First of all i listen to you because you might need communicating something to me. That is not what does not obvious right and he couldn't control it. I mean it's i can't remember the medical term and i don't want to go into too much information but it was a side effect of this medical condition that he had it was this outrageous behavior behavior this rage that he experienced and just giving him the words in that consistent <hes> you're safe. You're fine. Mom loves you. I love you yeah. We'll just get through this yellow. Let's figure this out together so that so that so enlightening because it's because the l._a. At times especially with kids i mean adults to and you want to think so but maybe not you know you get irritable because you're hungry. You get irritable deserve sir. You're thirsty. You're you're tired enough sleep. Get some hang on right in to sit and listen to somebody and go. Hey what's going on with you. You know the u. This isn't like you or this is not normal behavior for anyone like you know we what's going on with what's happening with you. Isn't that what we all well. What was somebody to listen right. I mean yeah such that you we remodeled it on and we started studying would back to back back the ministry with called trauma competent care. It's the same sort of thing it's going. Oh you're getting irritated with me probably because you're hungry or thirsty you're tired. So why don't we go over here. Take a break from what we're doing right have a drink. Let's you know let's get a cracker and let's get maybe we get back into. What we were doing right yeah listen. We've also <hes> one of the things that we really like to do and we've supported over the years. This is single parenting. <hes> we have quite a few families that come in and they're not eligible for <hes> in greene county. It's called title twenty so they luger income and they offer you childcare based on your income etc. So <hes> a few years ago we decided sided that rather than focus on titled twenty one which we still do offer that service to other two families that inquire fire we decided that we were going to offer benevolence in a different way. We had kids that families that came in and told a story and share their story with us. You know mom's trying to go through medical school. Nursing school dad's <hes> homeless he's p._t._s._d. Whatever the issue was in just coming alongside those single parents and an offering care to them and we've developed kind of a system of benevolence where a certain percentage of our tuition intake we <music> offer <hes> benevolence to families that they just need a leg up. They just need a little help and some consistency road so that's been very successful for us as well so so you're telling me is if i'm hearing you right is that you're ministering to the whole child. No definitely not just. I'm gonna cover here or i'm going to cover you. There like i'm gonna watch you to your parents. Got off work or i'm gonna teach these lessons because all preschoolers need to know these lessons. You're doing those things but it's more than that. It's a holistic but it's not even the whole child is fam- so parents come in and i mean part of our job is even counselor they come in and i'm not qualified to be accounts learn but i can listen in give you empathy and tryin ryan it anything that i can give you <hes> for child care. I'm going to do my best to do that for your family so it's really cool so it's not always success stories either talso day to day. You've got duties that you have to do like you said you administrative word paperwork that kind of stuff chicken on teachers and and that sort of thing joe also have like like currently were were waiting. You're waiting on the licensing person and the joa because they told you the first within the first two weeks of school show up so tell me about those headaches just those administrative headaches. Did you go through so she well our our licensing. Specialist is a woman um. We have a relationship with her. She comes in. She surprises us once a ear. <hes> she comes within a certain amount of time like she told us last year that she'd be coming around this time and she checks to make sure all of our paperwork is in order. Every employee has transcripts on file. Every employee has background checks on file. Every employee has has the right classwork. Every employee has taken child abuse prevention. I mean c._p._r. For state all these different things and then she goes through and checks checks are classrooms to make sure that <hes> we offer <hes> soft spaces for every child we offer in now different you know different areas in each classroom different representations of ethnicities in each classroom that the ethnicities are present <hes> we just she checks building. She checks the snacks. She checks the kitchen. She checks. I mean it's it's a whole day out the window. Endow right and it's it's pretty intense but it's also i mean i know. She's doing her job and i appreciate her because she keeps me on track. I am tracking everything in keeping everything ready for her at all times because she could pop in the door at any minute but when she will her right exactly we cannot refuse her at all so every medicine that we have a lot of children that have medical care plans. Every one of those is filled out out correctly. Every medicine is logged everything like that so it's a little greasy yeah and then but then but then on top of that you have other inspectors show right you have like the guy who yeah that that's a long story but so anybody at the church that wants wants to store stuff underneath the stairs personally going to come in dump it in their driveway in really the fire marshal disney every time it's also what we get rid of our the covers that we put over the chairs the gym if there was a fire hazard according to him because it was the <hes> <hes> mats in the gym were not rated vertically they were rated flats their burn rate and so he made us get rid of those in we've we've had six kids get stitches from running into those chairs simple halftime yeah so any great engineers out there when it come up with a a vertically rated fire padding so we can put around you have at it. Every door has to have a window as a child taliban the sprinkler system. I mean it's he's. I mean he's doing his job. That is great and it keeps me on track as well but it's a little too so so you you have those things and tie. You'll have headaches. You know just with different stuff like buses. Don't start and right <hes> <hes> kids get hurt like you said inches or whatever right i mean. Retention right is big for us. It's a it's kind of a headache getting in someone <hes>. That's a self starter that you know. I don't wanna say someone that comes in and is just a body. I don't want that person. I want somebody that comes in and plays with the kids and takes the time to listen and those are those are really hard positions to fill at times they are so so and once we so anita zwick gave us <hes> we the infamous miss jackie oda so anita worked with miss jackie's his mom at one of the local schools and you know five or six years ago. She suggested that jackie applied with us and jackie. He was like our dream but most employees think that when they're with us if they're younger they need to move onto quote real job bright. It's true you don't make a lot of money in childcare sure sal so we lost miss. Jackie shanks yeah when i heard about that. That was kinda. I was kinda sad because i've watched her and i've interacted with you know trying to make sure that we share space well and all that stuff and she was on top oppa. She knew what she was doing and she brought us a lot of employees. We have a lot of employees that came from ms jackie and chick-fil-a and you can always tell what what's the catch phrase. They always say my pleasure. Yeah all the employees downstairs at one time like my pleasure. It's like don't say that it doesn't matter madison. My daughter is she's. She still says she's. It's like ingrained in your head. You're brainwashed yet when she text you back my pleasure you now it's frank in there but that's good though so so <hes> headaches aside good stuff has happened <hes> where where where do you see p._o._c. going in the future. How do you see it <hes> developing. Is there anything new that you're hoping for. Is there anything that you look at this and go man. We can do this and move move to right. It's a little difficult because last may <hes> the superintendent of schools of beaver creek switched he proposed in successfully passed the levy or whatever it was the switch hours of beaver creek so for many years up until this school year. We didn't really have very many kids before school. Maybe ten or less butter after after school. Program was sixty five so this year <hes> with the school change. It's been really odd because it's kind of a trial trial year for us. <hes> we've increased our before school numbers to about thirty but our after school numbers have decreased so greatly and <hes> it's it's been really strange. I mean the kids from valley the first day they didn't get here till five twenty omar because there there's a bus issue because high school than middle school and then elementary school and the buses were now down to about four herb thirty four twenty for them to get here but still there's so many parents and that's just like i'll just adjust my hours and i'll come and get them which is great <hes>. It's great for the families but for us. It's been a little bit of a rocky road. <hes> so right now is kind of a time for influx. Thanks for us. We're trying to decide. Should we pursue more preschool and offer more classes should we you know there's there's just because we go on a waiting list at some point for preschool so we see that need so should we transition to be heavier preschool care <hes> we're just kind of in a affleck's right now so yeah yeah no you and i've talked about a <hes> an expansion maybe of the after school programs include <hes> <hes> tutoring and include even even counseling or <hes> or mentoring for middle school kids and that kind of stuff yeah yes back to that whole premise that you used in youth group where the younger or the older taught the younger and just trying to incorporate that into <hes> into a after school program would be great so there's there's lots of room for growth. There's lots of room for ideas. <hes> honestly we've had some rough times as far as is trying to figure out employees and things but i can honestly say that god is so good to us and he always i mean i sit here and i'm like stomachache. What are we gonna do about next thursday we're going to do we don't have enough staff and blah blah blah and always worms the things he always in always works awesome so <hes> a lot of times we talk about. We talked about it in terms of community outreach and we talk in terms of this. I mean you're part of our local missions team. You know in that kind of thing <hes> how does pule ac- <hes> out recap they do. How do you guys do average. I mean i heard you. You know parents. Come in and go hey we're doing. You know we need your help. That's that's so on mission. That is the mission of god right there. I mean you know but <hes> in which you're name's getting out. There and people are coming to you and they're like hey. We like you said there's a wait list for the presale. While part of it is you can blame that eight minutes in their entire street comes here now and you know in. It's all word of mouth pretty much. I mean there are quite a few families that <hes> military that come in and they move into the area and they just two or all the preschools and and pick one or two or the after school programs uh-huh but we do a lot of word of mouth <hes> lot of family you know cousins come here <hes> neighbors on it's kind of one of those all of a sudden you'll feel like you're you're kind of in kentucky. 'cause you're <hes> you're the so and so's next way hi you want me to put them on your list to pick up that. It's okay 'cause you guys are carpooling. The entire cole the sack. Oh okay it's it's word of mouth but <hes> yeah it's been we just try and create a program that so so so involved in the community in south supportive of families that people couldn't not recommend us yeah. It's it's it's like in. We live in a suburb where it's really easy to go or at least folks have some money. They have some fluence. It's you know they must have nice nice calm families but i mean every family has its own nuances in its own work that needs to be done in its own <hes> sense of of itself right interview to be in that you know it's it's great but then you don't realize we have quite a few families that are i'm not affluent and they're they're saying hey. Can you give me another day to pay this or can you and can you let us do this or i have to tell my days because i can't afford this and we're just trying to support those families and communicate and do the best we can. There's a lot at beaver creek. There's a lot of affluence but there's a lot of people just struggling struggling to get by speak into that as a family as a you know getting back to this holistic faintly not not just the child ran. Definitely the focus is on the kids. Support of of parents and i think that's something that i discovered when my kids were younger in elementary school. I needed to make a connection with their public school teacher. If i went in and offered my help and made a connection with them in turn they treated my child differently and i don't i don't mean to put it in those words but they looked out for my child and they called me when there was an issue and they communicated really well because i offered my time and i told them they were important right and it was important to me for him to be or heard of a successful right so that's cool so as we the <hes> kind of wrap things up here <hes> we'll give you the last few minutes to make appeals or whatever you know. How can the church help. You peel doesn't always get a high profile <hes> because it's a it's a day to day so you know weekend. We got thing but it's not something we talked a lot about on a sunday morning but as we're learning the church is not just about that event on sunday morning. It's about us living as a family of missionary servants you know and so <hes> you know losing that mission so so we want to support you guys you want to help you guys <hes> can we do. I mean we could pray am in line for cigna definitely and pray specifically for employee retention employees that are <hes> are successful in keeping our kids safe. I mean that's our. We always say that to our kids downstairs. It's our job to keep. You say that that is number one priority. Even if you go home not having learned you're creating your art project. I kept you safe for the day and that's what all families families want. Is that safety so to pray for the safety of our students in our teachers. <hes> we live in a scary the world and we have to practice drills and things like that <hes> but i appreciate the prayers <hes> as far as helping i mean we always appreciate employee referrals and things like that like i said anita's weigh in in different people at brought us great employees <hes> but <hes> we have the support of like don adams will come in and bring the cops group in and we can try that trucks and we have another dad. Who's a police officer. He brought the bomb squad truck in and <hes> we just want to treat our our building our use of the building a community center so i have a parent that works in the garden. I have grandparents that come in and read books in the if b._c._c. is community wants to come in and do that. That's amazing as another adult that is mentoring and seeing that <hes> you know it's a safe place. It's a it's a great place place. In in kids deserve a safe place as well as deserve to be heard and communicated with so it just had wonderful community support but like lin bergman is coming in and driving for us in great i just i really appreciate all the people from bbc that come in and help out so if they want to go out to the contact you up <hes> i will put your email address in show knicks beaver concussions yeah and it's it's already on the website so you can go check it out there <hes> and so i mean it's been really cool. You know you just gotta learn about <hes>. If you guys getting more questions or <hes> us again give care an email and she'll she'll be prompt to to talk to you about things especially. If you have kids that wanna be involved or need to be involved in a program or you wanna volunteer definitely hear from you <hes> or if you you have a great employee reference right yeah so that's just the beginning of the year so that's four front in my mind at times right <music> but so thanks for thanks for showing up care. Thanks for being here and talking to us about all this stuff and <hes> and guys we appreciate your appreciate your devotion to the podcast gas. I do wanna <hes>. Put a little bit if you like what you're hearing or even if this is the first time you listening you like all that was really neat. <hes> readiness on i tunes is super helpful <hes> because it leads us <hes> leads. I tuned to know that <hes> this is a popular podcast it kind of pushes us up <hes> in into the public island with more so if you could rate us give us give us a rating <hes> we'd really appreciate that <hes> and <hes> and if you getting questions or i thought for a topic <hes> please email me at steward beaver creek christian dot org and <hes> we'll <hes> we'll. We'll see what we can do will search out the story because this is all about us trying to tell the story of b._c._c. and what's going on. I'm already at work among us and just finding ways joining thanksgiving being here the.

anita zwick beaver creek jackie director beaver creek beaver creek elementary beaver creek christian church terry karen grigsby L. c. carol steward beaver creek cara penny babcock elsie peo pfleger
Episode 153: Aimee Sadler

The Canine Paradigm

1:32:43 hr | 2 months ago

Episode 153: Aimee Sadler

"What's happening in the canine industry for all the latest news. Views and expert opinions. Stay right here for the canine paradigm. You'll hear from industry leaders. Experts doyennes of the industry learn colleagues movers and shakers and the odd randy guest get the latest insights and expert advice from both here and abroad from the people in the nov. Now here your hosts glenn cook and pat steward am lofty fulton. And i'm outta here. You know what it is. A new month is it. Yeah it is. And i'm thinking to myself that we should probably have something like a month. Cold support al supporters support our support support l. supporters. We've got some people who support our show. Yeah and i want to show them some love. Okay yeah so we've got someone who is regularly supporting our show who's the industry fade. Himself jackson famine from unpredictable. Quit on zwick. quip is. yeah i know. You're a fan of jason's equipment you know. What sometimes these ideas in my head Let's go with jefferson of god. They saw idea for a tug. And i want it to be this big and this round and made a leather. Yup you got one and he goes. No that doesn't exist. You idiot but i can get a made do. It's a. he's pretty good like that. The elbow phase. Yeah we should get spring the buffet ed. The spring merge support the both here the bulls. Yeah but we've got people in other parts of the world notable fail. Tell me mac lapointe. Moslem point is french for mark for not a buffet for notable fed and he is from canucks on amex in canadia. Please don't slow this down. So if i were in north america. That's where i be getting. Yeah from he's got a great array of gear as well does. Yeah and he's a very generous guy. Yeah you know who else is a supporter of the show that would have to be kindred. Kind no benway at good friend mel benway. She is got to be one of the best travel to your home train. The dog in your home does try and and that is slightly in the area that she's in which virginia or ashland virginia ashland. Virginia but she services all the area around the she's a pain a great support for the show and also a great support for the international association of canine professionals at try we are proud members of as well absolutely. Yeah so if you're in australia. A need dog requirement Jason and on twitter with crimes. Wake for north america working. Don't quit -ment michael. Appoint a and if. We're in ashland. Virginia richmond virginia up in that general area. And you need pet dog training melanie. Melanie benway kindred. Yep welcome back to the on paradigm. I'm your host pet stewart joining studio by my co host. Glenn cook and today joining us on the line from caller neely said florida. We organized the colorado. Is amy sad la amy. Welcome to the show. It's a huge thriller. Be here with you guys thank you. It's an absolute pleasure for us as well and it's been a long time coming considering that we spoke about this at conference in colorado. I think we were queuing up for food and we met each other for the first time officially been following. You work for quite some time. You did a presentation in florida at tampa one year that i was there and put a video of you and your organization doing all the great work that you're doing and module hit the ground and i went home and your pdf the put out. I started to my staff and said you need to say what he's doing. It absolutely incredible. As i said longtime coming that we really wanted to get you on the show and talk about you and what you do you. Actually we talked about it briefly before and it has been a while and i i sent you that message the other day to compliment you on that episode and i thought when you turned around and said let's get you on the show. Oh you serious. This very exciting. I love your show. And i think that i don't only just love your show about dog training stuff. I just think you are a very intelligent heartfelt people. And i really enjoy listening to perspective above and beyond just talks. Thank you very much. That's a wonderful compliment. Thank you for those laws. I appreciate it. Hey let's get onto. Yes so dogs slang for life. Let's talk about it. Because i saw that same presentation at some speech and this is my first time going. I m pei conference and you want the big time speakers right like you had the big three hour block. That everyone was in nathan keynotes. Yeah and it was. It was overwhelming. It was a huge thing and to see the numbers in the stands of what you guys are involved in all around the country ultimately we wanna talk about the whole business where it's at now but we listen to the show you know we liked to. He backstories right. So how is it. Come to be that we're having this conversation. Does it stop you. How did you get into dogs. Yep it's actually really a crazy story. And i was doing private dog training and i showed up at a client's house in southampton for the back had you get into doug trading. How did i get into dog training. Well i literally. I've had the privilege of working with animals professionally since nineteen and i just. I just responded to somebody was talking asked that question on facebook and my answer is always headed. I get into dog training. I shoveled a lot of ships for free. In other words i think i'm of that generation where I was an apprentice. You know. I just really tried to get in close with amazing trainers and originally that was with exotic animals. That's restarted technically with marine mammals. I then with exotics and film work and dog training worked with a trained horses for awhile was raised with horses so just was always working with animals professionally and dog. Training was really aside gig in. I was working horses at the equestrian centre. And i need to make some extra money. I always swore. I was not going to do private dog training. Because it was the people not the dogs blah blah blah But i started working with. I was referred to people started working. That's how i got involved as a professional dog trainer. Okay start but how. I ended up as a rescue shelter trainer. That's that was many many many years later. Okay so your initial training like. Where did you get that from. So you said that you were dealing with marine mammal so you working at a facility in house. Training actually was An apprentice to the dolphin and sea lion trainer magic mountain in california crew. That's where that started. And then they had. They had a little wild animals show like educational show that they had an in house they would. We'd also bounce around and go to schools. They had an opening and that was an official job. Not just i actually had quit my office job to be an apprentice to the marine mammal trainer and then worked at. Marie calendar's across the street waitressing. Then low paying job came up and bounced into that and then it's a hold onto movie work and that was the area for all of that. There were a lot of studio trainers out there so i just ended up trying to apprentice with as many people as possible and just bounced around. It's interesting because you know what i would sort of when i think of you. At the moment. I think of behavior modification and lost all type stuff because he dealing and rescue that sort of thing whereas you'll background in being marine mammals is really very skinny. Marion operate conditioning. Vary lack behavior focused rather than lifestyle right and also just the working with marine mammals. You know that you don't have the physicality that we can have dogs with them. We do have with horses right. And so and i've heard so many of your podcasts. That really touch on it in some way shape or form about context and to me. The context of training is really the kicker at could kiss your feet over and over again for many of the things that you talk about and one is the. I don't think anybody's bringing reinventing the wheel here. We're all working off the same platform and sometimes people really striving to do something. Like earth shattering. And i don't know what that's gonna take at the we're all functioning off of the same platform. But i think what's really interesting and what happened to me is thinking that i understood all of these ways to train with all these different species and being thrown into the environment of dogs in kennels in a shelter that were deprived frustrated and stressed and how i thought i had all these systems down and now you put it in this context and you're fucked and i can say that on your show like it always just a whole different ballgame. It's like so. How do i re purpose this to work here because everything that most of us hang our hat on you know you have to have relationship you have to start teaching in low stress environments like on and on and on and on that all goes out the window. Once you're in a kennel you know all these dogs yelling and screaming facing each other. So now the things you think work perfectly don't always work perfectly. This is probably a wall back. But we've marine mammals. How much of their body language can you read. You know because like most of these behaviors. Because you're putting on a show you need them to do particular things and you need the dolphin to hit the ball all right and you know that's a very different process you teach dad it's positive reinforcement. You bring it on. And he leaves in a pool so it's not a real environment and you and and you may be done have a great relationship or do you. I don't know. But that's what i kind of interested in that transition from that work to dog training way. You know i think that. Most humans can intuitively ray. Two dogs body language. I can say what it scared dog. Ucla he's towel taxis. Go down that kind of stuff. But i don't know. What can you see in a marine mammal. What can you say dolphin that tells you about his state of mind and therefore how important is that to the training and was there a learning curve when you started in dogs that they was like. Hey this is new factor. That i have to take into account is lack. Of course i can try to go touch the bowl. Like i can try and the dolphin but i can say this does not happy that play a role in well. It's interesting i was raised with. I was raised on a farm so is raised dogs and horses. And there's a lot of training going on we're doing hunter jumpers and my mom actually had german shepherds that were protection dogs. I didn't wasn't involved it much sense. But i was always around animals and it's funny. You say that most people can read a dog. I don't to expand shooting night show. And i don't want to over represent myself. I had the privilege of being an apprentice to a dolphin and sea lion trainer. But i was never the primary trainer. I was a baby in that. And i had the privilege of being around it so i was never the elite train. I wasn't even paid trainer. So i was getting to learn by observation and i was allowed to handle them and get the water them. But i was really. They're just trying to sponge. Mostly but i learned more about reading them. And it's just like any species that you work with. You do have to know something about the species and she made me go. Do my studying. And then you've got to be a good observer. I don't care what animal you're working with. And so that. So i think that was all the same and then when i you know moving into dog training i felt i guess it was much easier and i could automatically re dogs. Just a backup. I have to tell you. I had the privilege of working with many many different species. And if i had my way would have loved to have been able to work with elephants. More only was in. The periphery of phenomenal elephant. Trainers and also the all of the eighth grade apes and everything. That was amazing to me. But i got to tell you. Be cats when i was around them did not feel like i had the big cat. Do it was just there as a backup. And i'm thinking. Wow this goes south. I don't feel like i get it with them the same so it is interesting this species more than others at that feels intuitive to me. I feel like i could be one of you or with you and others. You don't you. Don't you feel that way about dogs too. Sometimes world charlie years ago my wife tattooist and she tattoos one zookeeper came and go to do and then told his friends before too long. She's doing a bunch of through cape is right so here. Toronto zoo is huge. Beautiful zoo here. In sydney we had a kind of a bunch of sort of hookups behind the scene hookups. Because we knew a lot of the uk and this is before our can remember this one time when i was still in the army will in with the reptiles snakes and that will pulling out from your milk. The snakes snakes on display but the ones where they make anti-venom from and the pandeli cage and shot at immediately and said. Oh he's coming out today and like he could read the snake right like he knew that snakehead intent to eighty said like yoda there. And you know. I know nothing about snakes other than that. I am healthily. Scared of them. And i was amazed by that he could read the body language of the snake. When was nothing obvious to me. There was nothing in that. Could say but in the same way like i have when i was in the army then there were dogs when i would go into cleaning can allow be like. Oh no not today. like it's a triple stage can own. I was like normally would claim that with their night. Sort of poke you and annoy you. I can't remember a couple of times with a couple of really hot dogs that we had the or dangerous dogs that i'd opened the cry and the candle and be like you'll get locked in your bed today today. Today's different for you than yesterday. And it's really subtle thing but he could read that in a snake. And i just wanted to like you now. There are animals how readable that is interesting. Conversation this one because i remember once i was j every time on my side of the god. Can you take me to places. Where shock so i can go on. Follow them and take all of them and so forth and he said yeah. We'll go to this. The lagoon is away shocked hanging around the bottom. They and they were a couple of shocks like that. Were resting on the bottom and you know swim either towards them. And they sort of scurry away. Though rafe shocks the spacey's and i remember they were like a school of them sort of hanging together. And i was following them along and i had my gopro at and i was filming them and watching them and observing from a distance and one of the shocks sodomy started behaving differently than all the other ones and my guide grabbed me by the finn and he was indicating to me on the water to stop doing what i was doing. Come comeback when. I got back on the boat said was i upsetting that shock and he said yes and i said how do you know any said i could tell by the way. The shock was like moving in the water. Like he said if you'd noticed it was going left and right really quickly where the other ones were just cruising and i said yeah i did say that actually got it on film to and he said well that is like a threat from the shock to. I don't enjoy this. And i'm not happy about what you're doing and had i not have been with him. I would've just thought this is just a shock in its environment but he said if you kept pushing that chuck there's a good chance at might have turned and retaliated so interesting observe species in its natural environment and say something that i normally would not pay attention to but now on other adventures of were on shock fades and everything are sitting there. Watching people fading shocks can say the ones that are comfortable in the ones. That aren't comfortable. I guess if you spend enough time in that environment you start to say things that other people take for granted. Because i was one of those people you guys remember the the whole leopard. Seal the national geographic seal shoot. Have you seen that. Look at me like you've not seen that is as soon as we're finished with this. You have to go online and look up into national geographic leopard seal and then and then we'll just talk about it again. Another time is one of the most dynamic and again being in the natural environment. You've got to go check it out. Ok. is that the one where the seals abiding the guys on the tank and they sold applying one minute and then they grabbing him by the mosques and one lipid seal one with the they got little frisky little out of control when no down there with them. Now i hope that i'm thinking leopards their shoot right species. Yeah know this one is in particular the level. Say look up leopard. Seal feeding the photographer. Fish this one leopard seal. They had over as we're building a relationship in this leopard seal was trying to get him to eat it. You've just got to check it out and then you're gonna talk about it mark my words you'll talk about it on your shows got it. I just listened to that one. And i'm telling you now i don't wanna watch it because now i don't wanna watch when the shark goes after the octopus but i wanna see all the rest of it but i want to watch the the. Yeah it is it is traumatic. But it's definitely worth a watch or yeah after after we got into some trouble over. The spoiler isn't trying to bring that up again lacks blackfish. Yeah and you know as soon as that came out Phone call joel silverman. Right away and just a dude gotta tell me. Tell me that the behind the scenes real shit about this. I mean when the deal. But i you know i've known joel forever for have you guys had him on your show. We haven't done. Oh i've known him forever because with what. I was working with exotics in film before he did that. I was an american humane officer and so used to go on the set to monitor him which was a joke at the hang out with him. But i don't care to make sure he was treating into not just him. But the trainers and i was set on his set a bunch of times. But that time at joel originally way at when. That's another little party story Yeah i'm old. I want to sign that to your point pad the i've I just have that stomach. Flip thing. I don't know if you guys i describe it as stomach flip when i am approaching an animal and i just get that donkey feeling trump's and yeah i you know i had done we've worked with. We've done two hundred and eighty eight shelters by going to them doing playgroup seminars. I remember the first time that i did one at i think in my this was years goes three or four years ago and i was on the ground with one of the one of the largest in the country and those they did not have an enrichment program. It was interesting. It started out we were funded by the aspca and it started out as research because they did not have enrichment programming for their dogs that time there was a dog walking program or anything highest volume in the country and they wanted at one of the campuses to film the dogs in the kennels beforehand for about thirty days than have us come in and get all the dogs out of the chemicals and rotate them through play groups and then just see what they were like in the kennels before and then after it was just to just basically study what is the impact of just adding a playgroup program. If you add nothing fortunately it got the study part of it but there is something that bunked up. One of their buildings got shut down so a change the population so from a research perspective. It was out the window but as a result of being sent on the ground to do that they ended up asking us to stay teaching them how to run playgroups. And it's great because if the largest one in the country can do it. Anybody do it right when i showed up there in my career. I think before that there may be five dogs in my career. That i didn't feel like i could get out of the kennel safely and that shelter that i was three dogs that i didn't go in with because of the circumstances that those dogs in and how frenzied they were now we ended. I can't even remember. All three of them ended up coming out. But it was just so impactful to me that i'd spent all these years go. Hundreds probably thousands of dogs. That i've been in of and sometimes had that feeling like i'm not going in with you today. But it had been so rare and then at this one location because they were so distressed in that circumstance that there were three so i thought that was pretty telling. And that's really to the core of why we do what we do is just the quality of life thing for shelter dogs. Yeah i wanna tell story and then we're gonna go to go back and get to how you got into doing definitely but talking about being a kennel with those. We had this dog the same as braxton. Yeah a lot of dog right and he was not a dog that locked to be told what to do. He had a very good handle on. They like he goes over a go but he was one of those malaise. You know those ones we lock is a boj out of their head and the big forehead. Like like oh. I'm not sure if he did not like to be bossed around and he had torn up a couple of handlers and he was a lot. So i always go along with him but i never asked him to do anything like it. I'll take him out. If he's handles away i'd take me out. And he just be on the flexi. I'd let him have these fifteen minutes out doing his own thing and then i would just be like hey and not have food and casually put him away. We don't find so one day i'm cleaning. He's and he was one of those finger fingerpainted like he would just paint shit all over the walls. I guy yeah yeah. what zero. So bresson's on his bed. And i'm cleaning towards off of the war. Got the pressure washer. And i looked back at him and gave him this. Look like like. You're so gross. And that was it. Here's like fuck you. You look at me like that and came at me. Oh wow wow. We're in the ghetto right. So i'm in a panic. Turn the pressure washer onto him and sort of like black sort of pushing me out of the way. Only like it'd be hosing off the walls so now this shit everywhere as me and breast than a scrambling around trying to get out of the he. He was intent on killing me. I just go out in time. And then he like on coveting sheet and water in a barely get out of the time and he stops dead doesn't even bother me dislike and that's how things go. Pat goes my assaults. Is sometimes you can change. Yeah that's my story. Legit to get taking the from habit very uncomfortable situation exactly exactly now after slamming around at yourself you know how exactly exactly he just wanted me to get a taste for all right so you working as a doug china how. What's the next step. How is it that you came to be involved in rescue so heavily and these playgroups. We've rescue well. One of my clients showed up at our house. One day she had two jack. Russels were pretty frequently trying to kill each other and just to preface. This is that i was doing And train in my home environment like the real life environment with the kids. You know. That was the thing that my my advertisement was. Is the kids crawl around on the floor and the dog is is other dogs. And we're living the real life. Your dog is not coming to kennel environment when they came to training with race. That was my big advertisement. And i was used to working dogs in groups. I was always really intuitively comfortable. It naturally with dogs in groups. I was raised on that front. We had seventeen dogs at the time on the farm. My mom would rescue dog. All the time just was comfortable for me and for some people. That's not the case. Like i've learned from some amazing world class. Trainers that i think are just the worst with dog. Dog interactions that just like go. Sit down you can't do this but a learn everything else from you but this was very comfortable for me so my client. I show up at her house one day and she says you know what the dogs been doing. Great and i want to jump in the car. I walk dogs down at our local shelter the southampton animal shelter. And i would like to pay for your time to just go and try to help the dogs. They're off no. Because i wanted to help shelter dogs did i would take dogs. In as like a. I would foster behaviorally challenged dogs for rescues and everything and work with them and place them from my home but i was so distressed when i saw dogs in kennels that wanted to go into the shelter just cry i was like a big weenie and so i would. This was my clients. of course. what am i going to say to her. No thank you. I can do that so of course i went to do it with her and i also have a very all or nothing type mentality and so she got me hooked once i was there and walking the dog so there is very small. It was dilapidated facility at a time. There's about thirty something dogs and literally how the started is because i had thirty something dogs that we're all going nuts. They had a yard in the back. And i felt like you know going with treats and everything originally doing all of my wonderful dog training things that worked so beautifully for me. Under normal circumstances the dogs were like screw that. That's not what i wanted to fuck out here. You know and so. I thought let me just ask if the let me let them play together and the whole purpose was let let me. Just get their ideas out. I you know satiate them at some level because then i could identify when the dogs came back into the kennel which ones could kind of cope. And which ones were still struggling difficult to handle. And then i knew those were the ones that i would focus on training because it made me feel terrible to think i'm going to show up for two hours and work three or four dogs leave the other ones like this could stomach it so really. That's where this this whole thing. It really came from. It's just like i couldn't. It was just quality of life thing. I did start out to save lives at all. I really started out. Just no matter. What their outcome is this. Life can't suck this much so your first day at the shelter that one with that that lady cheese. Your time doesn't need to use us so takes you down to the shelter and says hey help. Dog helps them dogs. So you're saying that you may be used by triage who was then worth investing the remaining couple of hours you have their into actual training. Yeah that's really how it started and she said whenever you have a hole in your schedule i will pay for you your regular rate and at that time. I got a clear that was in the hamptons and new york. I was one hundred fifty there two hundred and our in new york at that time rate and so she was paying me my regular rate to go and work the shelter dogs and then what ended up happening is over time. I ended up just working for her. So i ended up being basically like donated employees to the shelter. So i was. She was wanna pay me. But i worked there fulltime. It just became our passionate this disa- crazy small world story. That i knew her when i was a child that we discovered later on but she and she's like a mother to me. I'm a. I feel like. I owe that human being life might. But that's that's going to be right. But and she and i are still very close but that that all started that was in nineteen ninety eight happened and i have been working with shelter. Dogs exclusively literally since then. It's just been this. And how i ended up in colorado working with the longmont humane society was after i kind of installed my version of canine programming for shelter dogs at the southampton shelter. And we saw they were saving seventy plus percent of their dogs at that time and by implementing that programming. And then there's other things like they did upgrade the shelter but the the plague our program was pretty critical and they were up to maintaining a ninety percent for their dogs in relatively short order and sustained maintained itself. She then ended up asking if i was willing to relocate colorado and try again to install our programming at the longmont humane society so they were both open admission shelters. They weren't prescreening dogs before they came. They would take anything so they could end up medical cases with behavior cases. Both of those shelters were that kind of a shelter. Both of them were about the seventy percent rate when we showed up and then their canine rates from our programming went up to above ninety percent of that one too for shelter is only about a thousand animals a year. The second shelter was about forty five hundred animals year. Basically demonstrating that. Our programming to scale was working well and then it was from my work the longmont humane society that people were. How are you guys increasing. Your it was live release rate at the time for your dogs and we really talked about the play and the enrichment programming being the primary focus. And that's when. I think it was two thousand and ten that brian comments was also very old saito. This dating myself branko commons was he had mentored me for years and he was doing this playgroup stuff and he had a volunteer training program over in florida and he was the one that said. You've got figure out how to teach other shelters had to do this. So that's how the playgroup seminars started hitting. The road was in two thousand ten. I'm very interested in understanding like how you decided to do that. Like why did you know how did you know that play. And these groups would radically alter the the dogs in the shelter because it looks like now having spoken to all the papal lock yourself. And you know jesse jackson good friend and that's a big part of it and and even right now i'm doing all in of course and that's heavily. It's lots of play roy so it seems like now plays obvious right. And everybody's like you go to play. These does is really important. We understand that in the same way. Pat nolan was the first person to use a century. But now it's just. It's just what you do but someone did that i. This is early days. How did you know that play was going to be that important. What was it that drove you to do that. Why did you decide. I'm going to let these play. And then i'm gonna see how that affects them and then try and train them. Laziness that's serious. It was an efficiency issue. Because it was like i have this amount of time and to give these dogs actual quality of time to expend the energy that they need so that they can concentrate and even pay attention to these other lessons that i want to teach them that. Have no obedience has no intrinsic value for the dogs right. What dog wants to come out of a kennel. When it's going nuts and spinning be taken out on a six feet foot leash taught to walk in a in a position by your side. Why is that enriching to a dog. we have to. We have to manufacture that but it's not intrinsically happier healthy for the dogs by itself right So to me literally it was. How can i attend as many dogs as possible. And because i was also very comfortable with it was just the obvious natural way to go and it made my trying to teach the basics in that kind of adverse condition. It just made my work easier. So i'm trying to be funny but it's really true. It was wasn't really out of laziness. And interestingly i want to brag about lexi who is director at the canine center in florida. She graduated she was in ivan's first class graduated of course which sees amazing and we've had j. check down a bunch of times and jj help us get over the hump with a a bunch of the dogs that we were working with but that play is human and dog interactive play. Yep it's very different than the dog. The dog play in how and how to utilize that. And i think that some of the stuff that we would do. I remember the first time. I've got a great video of jay when he showed up and i had a number of the fight. Bus dogs the written playing together and we had worked hard to get there. Believe me it wasn't an look. It's just so easy. And if you know jay well and you watch this video. He's kind of wringing his hands. And i said hey. So what do you think about this. I had just literally really met him as now looking back on that video us going this guy he was great in the video is like literally wringing his hands. Like no this is. It's amazing that these these dogs playing like this but it's pretty funny stuff is different. Yeah yeah and so your foundation. That was really developed yourself right. There was no one to learn that from because you saying to start at ninety eight right so there was nobody. That wasn't a seminar. You could go to to learn. Okay how do i get jokes to play like an socialization sort of lodge field. Stuff was probably around then date russell he was. I remember being so thrilled. Because dick was so reinforcing to me when i went to. Icp way back when and he taught his open-field socialization this before chad was involved in ed or anything chat learn from decorating. And i remember being so thrilled that oh because it was very reinforcing. I will never claim that i did not invent playgroups or create this at all. Just like you say we're not we're just deciding what pieces are important how we want to impart the knowledge that feels good to us in his effective for us right. I didn't invent playgroups. There are tons of people like me. That were comfortable and intuitively. Would let dogs play together but more often than not people were afraid especially with kennel. Dogs strange dogs but dick russell. Of course he was the founding father of all the open-field socialization and of course i was supportive of what he was doing. An and he made me feel. Like i was okay and what i was doing. Sure learn from someone in particular. I've bumbled along and then create a curriculum is from like odd. And now i gotta teach somebody doing. Hello break do. I teach someone why i select that dog to come in. But this dog can't right now when you gotta get into all of justice you can't break it down like a train curriculum. Because it's fluid you can't s. You're not controlling what the dogs are doing all the time and to me one thing. That's making me insane. Which is why. I love that. Podcast that you guys did was. There's a whole faction of folks like player trainers down the tracks and the animal welfare world. Now i don't think it will be part of the norm aldama. Happy woman have getting dogs out into playgroups or giving them an opportunity to show you. It's its value to them. That would become as normal and sheltering is feeding cleaning and yes you have to offer them out of kennel enrichment everyday. But there's a bunch of groups that are really promoting introducing dogs. In all i can say is. It's so micromanaging. All i can say is it feels like human beings inserting and projecting ourselves and our psychology dogs. And who the hell do we think we are. Just get out of their way and allow them to be dogs together. I betcha there are a lot better at that than we are. So why do we think that we can tell them how to be a dog interacting with another dog and so really what we're trying to teach people is being able to identify that's problematic. That's not problematic. Let them do their thing. Interesting point tom. Because i've got a girl that works for us at the moment in one of our resorts and she's just brilliant socialization and she does allow dog ak will not orlando daycare but she rahmael largest dog die k. go cold mattie. And i was watching. They're working with some dogs the other day and she's very much of that. Don't over manage the dogs. Like let them play and you know like also watch clients coming in and have the opinion that the dog is right for daycare. Where i've learned it from winnowed in the states and i've listened to people like yourself and other people who've said some dogs just don't really like it. They don't want to be involved in those daycare environment. And like i've been part of a conversation where i've sat down with people and said your dog is not happy about being in a daycare environment and i said oh yes easy very social and i said i think you want the dog to be very social. That's important here but it's not to the dog like doggies not enjoying being in lodge group. Socialization your dog enjoys being with you and not with these other dogs and saying all year but somebody else told me it's very important for my dog apply play and i said yeah but again. It's like that poor observation. I had with that shock. That shock didn't like me following it. It wasn't happy about was going on in that environment and people. Either micromanaging too much in these Lodge socialization fields where they just projecting too much themselves or they're not doing enough in our. That doesn't seem to be a happy medium at sometimes where they're saying. Yeah these fifteen dogs. I he they find these dogs. They not enjoying being. Would they deign dogs. You know maybe they will pick their own group dogs. They're happy with dogs at laid them alarm and sorta dogs at a happy to wander around the field and do their own thing. And i have seen that before where people have said nine these dogs socialization classes or lodge field social habitual groups or whatever. You're trying to do with the dogs. But their horses for courses so they say you know some dogs. They will function nicely in grapes as long as the other dogs. It just happy to do their thing. And not getting face so you are absolutely right. And i think sometimes people need to close their mouth sometimes an open their eyes and ease and just look and watch. What's going on around them to take your attention to to what's happening in the environment and then also make good judgment calls based on that. Well i think context again is a huge thing so when you're working with clients dog and you're observing clearly like this dog is not interested in this. This dog is happy in its life with you so he doesn't have to play with other dogs in a shelter environment when we're doing playgroups one of the big things that we're trying to teach people as when dog do come out and they're stressed right. We talk about teach the difference between stress and distress right from an adaptive perspective. And when you've kind of blown that threshold world now. This learning is not beneficial. Now you're creating. were situation the dog but it is true that for a lot of shelter dogs if they i come out to play groups some of them pretty uncomfortable the keys matching them with dogs that have the right energy in the right place stopping really the key because when you give you stand back and allow them to be with dogs that are appropriate for them so many of them come out of their shell and if we judge them from that first interaction you own no this is too much fearful dogs. A lot of people wanna coddle and protect fearful dogs and then they don't have any exposure and so how how they naturally learned they don't have exposure thresholds. they're not going to expand their thresholds without exposure right and so and then using all the things that we know to ease into it but again you take fearful dog. I think about normal behavior eight. You have outliers right. I mean if you have an extremely fearful dog or extremely aggressive opposite ends of the spectrum and you you have a packer a group of dogs that are behaving within normal range of and take an outlier and expose them to a group of animals of their own species behaving normally. What's most likely going to happen. Is the normal dog. Going to start to adapt and become more behave more like the rest of the group that is being normally or all the normal. Wanna start out behaving like the outlier. So it's just a matter of using kind of natural common sense. Just expose them to normal healthy appropriate canine interactive behavior. And you'll probably learned that you're safe and okay and you will start to probably interactive normal social way for canine. There's so many lies to that as well like i think. Take my own dogs. For example right. I use them as examples a lot and a lot of things. But it's because i know them. So intimately and so valerie springer spaniel most people look at her and say she's not social alexei. She's not aggressive or fearful. She just doesn't enjoy the company of other does she. Doesn't spend a lotta time with them right. It's not play but with tolerant taller dogs. But they're not playing. Yeah she doesn't wanna play. But i gotta potty in a twenty four seven but he's a thing is certain dogs. It's taken me a long time to understand what's actually going on with this and i. This is why. I can't imagine trying to figure this out and in a glance and shelter. This is the skill that you guys must have because most people would say valerie's not social but the issue that she has and it's the reason she hasn't played with other dogs. She sewed dominant but is physically capable right. So she's she's like extremely powerful dog in her head but he's not body and therefore can't risk playing because if she loses she loses the poseidon that she's created so it's funny because she went miley he constantly every day tries to engage her the play and i think it's he just turned four on my. It's been four years. She is never. I can play with you right. It's because sensible what that's it right. Because she knows. I'll lose control of the situation because you are so much more powerful than me. And you're such a knucklehead which he is. He bounces all over the place and causes such such problems that she's like. I can't do that because it will expose. I am not physically more capable than you and then that will change our relationship. That's what i think's happening. Because the dog she does play with she more fluid than plays like she's got a particular type by poppies and young dogs. She loves she. she can manage. Yeah exactly right. But as soon as doug reaches a certain size slash maturity level. She's like no ad is done. We complaining more because you might beat me now. Simulated fought you might mean now simulation and then you'll realize that if it were real fought you could beat me and i can't have you thinking that i need you to know that i'm so tough right. It's taken me years. Understand that about her. Look you imagine that your dog ended up in a shelter and she was brought out into a playgroup and there were a bunch of young kind of rough and rowdy players that were in that group and she was introduced because nobody looks like there is any angst and they went banging into her and she overcorrected Right away from me. Sadly a lot of times and let's say a fight broke out because she was trying to create distance appropriately but they didn't have the skills to respond well to her sadly. That's where all these misunderstandings come in. So many aggression is like up there good and they're not social but that's not what her labels should have been about. That's going with right. She would be really easy. Dog to diagnose is aggressive. If you put her in this situation would bring that out. And she's anything bought that right. She's the most loving adorable. Little criterion i. I use her to fix aggressive dogs to help manage and rehab aggressive dove stress and aggression of very quick to be cold on these days like a lot of people look at dogs and i stress aggression straight away. Unthinking thinking well. That's a very quick coal to make on on a five minute observation for somebody who are generally is an old skilled in looking at dog behavior. And i find that happens a lot more with young china coming. They look at the situation. Say you can say the dogs clearly stressed or it's clearly aggressive dog. well sometimes. The dog is just uncertain of the situation. Just hasn't had time to warm up and feel itself in the environment. I mean we can speak with with with a certain degree with already because we run one of the largest boarding kennel providers in australia and we're constantly around dogs watching him. I mean some of the girls that work for me that have been with me for many years. There are some of the best dog. I've ever seen in my law because they are matching. That's their job. Twenty four hours not twenty miles a day but you know like all the time that the he might fulltime staff. They are absolutely amazing at it. They've made calls that. I i've gone in made a snap judgment on or not comfortable with this and they going hang on glen and i'll say yep and i'm always because i know that they better at it than than i am. They ran it more and the the authority in that situation. So i said all right elevator pitch me. Tell me why. And all these this. And this. And i'll go good points i i'll say you point and i'll sit back and watch them. Do the interactions when they pairing the dogs in the kennels together ensure enough it pays off there right so there's a lot of times way i say people who are in positions like i've made iran dogs for a long time thane involved in training and behavior for a time but the one thing that i've been learning to do and trying to be better at controlling my ego in the situations where there are other people that aren't like they. Constantly calling in micro managing and getting in the way and trying to be relevant and signed to people are now you know on the authority on the. I'm the smartest person in the room. I don't do any justice for my staff. In order while the people net situation with i get in the way of people who really do understand they job and they roll and how dogs are interacting and making good decisions about the behavior and the way that the dogs up socializing together so sometimes i think you just got to sit down and shut the fuck up and like i said use your eyes and your ears than your mouth to One thing that we talked about when we're teaching the seminar so we're talking about this in my field it cannot be that will some people just naturally good at it and some. Aren't we have to have a way of from if you are actually good at. How do i teach someone who's not naturally good at it. How to systematically start to implement a player program in a shelter with two hundred dogs on the ground rain. And that's what became a bit of a challenge but one of the things that we when we're teaching these centers we talked to people about is a confidence is subtle insecurities exaggerated back to your point with regards to and that goes for human beings that goes for dogs that goes for every time. You see these exaggerated displays take a look around and just give it some time in with practice and skill. You know you'll see those displaced are to change when you see healthy. Interactions occur but same. Thing with our handlers. When they're out can you imagine if you're attending. Well you both provide seminars but imagine going to a playgroup seminar right and then all of a sudden you're gonna go into the yard after watching three hour. Classroom presentation is packed with so much stuff. Like you think your head's going to explode and then you're up to go in the playgroup and we're gonna start bringing out dogs from the kennels that all these labels all over them hugh imagine how how scary that must be for these guys and you know we always tell them like you're going to be herky-jerky in the beginning dogs are gonna be herky-jerky in the beginning. Our staff always does the we call it the startup which is always trickier because the dogs sometimes a really pent up had negative associations experiences all kinds of stuff so we and then we can demonstrate our handling all the things that we just talked to you about in the classroom presentation soon we rotate the population ourselves. Our hampers do that first and then we immediately go into coaching the staff and then it is true. Though with regards to dog bug stuff is that we do help identify. Some people are naturally better at it. So just because you have a director of your training and behavior program. They might actually be terrible at it and you might have a kennel attendant revolting tier that has got it and so this you have to support an power the people that enjoy it and like it you cannot make people do play groups if you force someone to go out into a you know that glen when you're hiring people for your styling they've got to be into it. You cannot make them go out and do that. Well it'll be a shit show up. Yeah it's got to be a passion it's got to be a real genuine lavin. Wanted to do it like that. I've seen who just want a job. They just looking for a job and they really like dogs. They like dogs and they usually don't get past the gate and i'm the guy in most situations and we talked to. I think we talked about this a while ago where we thought that it was a good idea to bring business people into run boarding kennels and it's not it never a dozen. The customers identified the season. A real person for the industry. This is a business person doing business. The person in running a resort is kind of a unicorn person. Because i really need to have a business idea which you can coach people in. But you can't teach somebody who doesn't understand. Animals had understand animals where you can take someone who does understand animals. You can take them to do business like limited business. I mean it doesn't mean that they're going to be amazing in the main criteria is that they have a raid on animals dogs and cats in our environments that and because you can't fight that to people who come in on site. Oh i don't feel comfortable with this person. Then not talking the language and they don't feel the united. They dining exude the love and the compassion. That's really needed for the industry and for my dog. Oh my cat. So that's one of the criteria that we really have a real hold on. And i think back to you know we were before about context running professional daycare. Environments is a completely different. Like i would never suggest to you that you should take our player manual for shelter dogs and apply it or an overlay at over your professional doggy. Daycare boarding trained business. It is a completely different contexts. Them well i mean the the big difference. Is that the dogs in the shelter. No one owns gonna be picking them up at the end of the night and you know this might be the difference of life or death for them as opposed to you know. If i was running a doggy daycare i would say no things have to be actually a whole 'nother level of controlled than one. I'm looking for in the exercise of playgroup for shelter. Dogs like this is their chance. You know it's different. It's different so i mean. Let me us step back and sort of talk about. How did you sky all this because so you worked in the one shelter that you it was like a thousand dollars a year and that was your proof of concept. Yes this works. Here's the evidence. Go into another one many many more dogs. for and a half thousand a year you'd increase the stats that place as you did. Similarly in the ala snorter fluke. Here it is like improve it right like i've done at two places. How did that become where because you did that. Through like so. That was you and your team. Oh well who know so. It's very interesting. When i showed up at southampton was just me. And then when i moved out to california i mean colorado. Excuse me i did live in california but now colorado i did come out with my dear friend pampers who now runs the national space alliance. She does she takes body parts for all the right reasons across the country. I know in georgia houston jordan now but she came on board with me to kind of get this thing up and running in longmont and what i have to say about that. Shelter is that they had a phenomenal volunteer program. That was being run by klusman. You gentlemen net. Sarah at ict that you're working with us at the time she's ready for deep all the time. She had the best volunteer program. It was so buttoned up. Those volunteers were coordinated scheduled. If they missed a shift she would call them and say. Hey we missed you today. Contentious nope this time. I could work for you because we need. Were counting on you like she had this amazing ability to really make. Volunteers feel empowered and valued but then also helped them. They were accountable and they were really functioning for that shelter. So i got to come in. That was like a greased wheel right but it was really funny when i showed up and said we're going to be throwing all the dogs out together and and at that time also i was doing basic training and i was balanced and my motto. Is i use all tools and techniques to support animals reward will behavior. That's my in that day. The same thing and they were. She was had more of a positive reinforcement exposure. And so it was like you know you and the lady with the money behind you coming in. You're not going to get all that done with our dogs but obviously it worked and the dogs are happier and everything was more fish just works rain so i can't say that was by myself there. Because then i had an amazing Cora volunteers and then the staff built up and then we built behavior department there. I didn't i ended up building behavior department. Southampton ended up with staff there and then did the same thing started from the ground up. Build behavior department at longmont. You ain't citing. And then i kinda they were running that in the my started going hitting the road in teaching the seminars in two thousand fifteen is when i cut ties so i was working for this woman by the way. This woman was donating me this whole time. Well it'd be paid by her not by these shelters nineteen hundred ninety eight to two thousand and fifteen and i. I don't know if he was the bravest or the stupidest thing that i've ever done. But i i called her one day and said you know i. I don't think you you don't have to carry this anymore. I we've got this. I'm going to go start a nonprofit. My husband helped me guy would not have been able to do that. He helped me get the nonprofit started and then I cut i offer payroll and figured we're doing this thing and My son and i did seventy shelters. The first year while selves started adding we started adding staff and it just now. I think we have twenty three staff. We visited almost three hundred mean. It's been rock and roll. And and then we were donated the canine center in florida which is a whole whole nother thing. That's what that's just advanced. Those are the dogs that are really at the end. It's us or sanctuary or euthanasia. So were when everybody said. There's nothing more we can do for. These dogs were one more level of advanced training and behavioral work which i have never competed. I don't have this. Why admire you. Two gentlemen ivan fell off has been incredibly gracious with us because he's two and a half hours away and he's donated a tremendous amount of his time. We're not learning from ivan. Because i'm going to go compete. I'm trying to learn from people are the best of the best to that. Hopefully a dog a fall through the cracks. I have some concept about advanced training. So that i can apply it and possibly save your life. That's a whole 'nother level. But that i met you just casually drop that you did seventy Seminars at shelters. In one year i son. My son started with me when he was nineteen. He finished his high school on a work study credit. So how the fox that it was because it was so it was so needed at just people wanted to see the dogs play and it is amazing. There's a lot of naysayers. Don't get me wrong. And i wanna tell you guys. We've been invited to australia uninvited. Invited unwanted invited uninvited. And you know what it's about because they use versus balanced trying. I was just about right now because you're stinky american. That isn't allowed in couva cooties. I was just a bad to casually find a drop line at some stage. Because that was part of our conversation at you and i had it was during one of the podcasts and we were talking about the use of tools and you message me and said i just want to thank you so much for talking about these tools but emmy we want to thank people like you haven't shied away from the use of tools. I've been an advocate for tools for so many years for thirty years of selling feeding prong collars. I'd probably fit. You know i would say close to about between two and three thousand dogs up with prong collars We were selling them before. Most people even knew what they were the one thing that really bikes noodle or grinding. My gears is that for all the people that have had such a wonderful outcome with them and swear by them and think they're the best thing since sliced sprayed. They never get mentioned in any of the stories but the one or two people who have a bad reaction to it. They make headline news and the thing that disappoints me. It seems to be not just an australian thing but fundamentally what we see in. Australia is the headline news. Issue is what people really draw down on. And that's their experience with some of these tools. I think like prong collars and so forth because they look so awful and you know the design of them looked hideous but the functional of them is absolutely amazing. it's life changing and it has really turned the corner so many of these dogs people. I've seen so many people throughout my career. And i'm sure you have an pet. Probably saying people that he can speak off as well people painting teased. They've just said to me. I thought this was the end of the ride from my dog. I thought that people saying to me your not strong enough to handle this dog. You can't do anything with this dog. This dog is on trainable and yet they turning up with the dog walking passively in the late enjoying the company and then you had these audacious people signed the only reason that dogs now controllable is because of teen fia. That have does anything wrong. It's going to be in pine. And i'll say you sir you don't get it like you simply don't get it you part of the problem. You'll the reason why so. Many dogs have been destroyed that have so many opportunities available to them. And when i know people like your out there that really fills my hobby them honestly. Well thank you and i. That's why i did miss you about that. Because specifically i know all dog training professionals are faced with this debate. Dilemma thorn in their side. Or whatever no matter what side you're on it no matter what side. You're on red because if you're on the positive only side you're tortured by the fact that there are those of us. It will not adhere to your ethics. Right i mean people sleep. It's painful it's painful for everybody all the way around to be this at odds with one another But i think that What's really kills me in my field. I've got. I've got a bunch of academics. That are breathing. Because you know the bigger you are the hardy fall rates now. D- people last by myself building these programs. Nobody gave shut. Why was right now. Deep f. l. is a big enough name animal welfare that you know the the and the people are just really looking to bring us down. They're coming out of the woodwork. Now and what's a killer to me. A lot of them are academics. They got a lot of letters after their name. They cannot demonstrate any model. The will even come close and we are very measured. And we've got all the data behind what we've done. I didn't talk about the canine center for two years. Until i had some numbers that i could say. Okay what we're doing a successful. Because i don't compete. But measurement is how. I'm a held accountable for what i'm doing it as much as opinion right and if you talk about the ultimate competition how many liver die rain and so it makes me insane that i've got academics. That are trying to shut us down because we use squirt bottles shake cancer. I'm not talking a pinch. Collars or remote collars or anything in our player but just our basic enrichment programming. They want to shut down because we use squirt bottles and shake hands. Air blast and air horns for altercations and interruption tools when they're it's it's insane and then you know what i deal with the canine center. One i'm trying to do the advanced training and behavior for dogs that are at risk of the nation for behavior problems. You know and the fact that i use all tools and techniques so you know what we would go through that. I think that is the place to draw the line right because we we. We have forced spray paypal on the show and we get along really amicably but those people up usually competitive this and so the difference between like phalle because you unwillingness to use a particular on a dog just made you didn't get the ribbon on that day. No big deal right at the end of the day don't goes i'm happy. And the truth is is people are exceptional china's and some of them do that for setting them so high challenge. And that's cool. I think that's amazing like you say hey like you know especially you get people who say like all right. I won't try and wean. We've no of us and that's the goal. I'm sitting for myself and no problem. And if they aren't it's just like oh try get next to you know be do all right and i have total respect for those people. I really enjoy company. Enjoy the compensations to have with them. But it's the death before discomfort people who can talk themselves like because that is that where it's just madness and like i one of the earliest clients that i have a put upon caller on was like an older woman very very small and she had a very powerful dog and there was actually no behavioral issues with the dog. The dog was great just pulling her wrote yes so we she was doing obedience and the douglas getting really good and i like the dog and i was playing with the dog a lot and just because of more saw as i could play tug beddoe with the dogs in a way that locked more than sheila. She can play well. But just you know physically wasn't as powerful and capable anyway one day like three or four sessions into it. Doug so me on the other side of the street and just dragged her to me like there was like she was fate planted like doing everything she could on that flat collar to stop. The doak knows no behavioral problems with the dog. The dog was great. That does a fantastic dog. Really well trained but when the motivational math didn't because he saw me and was like oh i just wanna get to that guy and i get i get my access to me so regular and i see you every day. I'm going to and and there was no esto pm. And i say i the thomas said oh my god like and luckily at that time it was her straight right so it was like who back. Strata wasn't like through traffic but had it been would have been no way stop. I said oh my call. We're going to have to put a protocol installed and she in her community became a pariah like was basically handed out of it because she was using these collar on the dog. And like. I say it's not like it was. We weren't even like it was just a stop. The dough from dragon author traffic keeping her at the talk alive and it was you know. She lost access to be part of a community. She was kicked out and really was treated very very badly disgusting. Yeah and and it was is real eye opener. Because i was thinking you know i have nothing against full free community in fact i have. We have much to learn from them of course but the idea that we should just let dogs doi instead of you know. Endure beat a discomfort to learn a lesson. The dow stick with them for life. It's madness to me is that it's not. There would be chaos in the universe. The natural world does not function this way. This is a human construct. So even if you go back to the fact that i i had the privilege of working with marine mammals in the beginning but they are basically kennel. Right lived in a tank. There was complete control of their environment and their access to resources right. So human beings have have taken this these discoveries and have basically created the ability to force other living beings. Do whatever the heck we want with this all this upward conditioning stuff and if you're gonna do it through positive reinforcement only usually have to have some control the environment and their access to resources and is it that we think that that's so incredibly. She mean and if even if you look at the studies and went all those discoveries were made that was so cruel ship that went down in those labs. When that's happened you know like thank god. We learned the things that we learned but it is actually kind of pretty sick and twisted comes. Yeah we should be able to mentally manipulate other species and ourselves into doing what we want but we cannot follow some kind of natural order of things that oh. I touched a hot stove. I won't do that again. I mean why do we think that just the occurrence of learning is not so valley. It just doesn't. It doesn't actually make any logical sense but i was really hard. Nowadays there are so many academics that will claim that somebody like me. Is uneducated stupid. Or i'm just actually a self reinforced punisher. That's why i do what i do. Because it self reinforcing to me That's us an interruption tool in playgroups. Because somehow i go home like i hadn't orgasm in play groups or something because i got to shake shake candidate dog. That is one of the ones that really upsets me is the idea. That punishment is reinforcing to punish. Oh and thank yous that a lot as a justification for why you do it. You're stocking behavioral loop and it's like yeah but i also what he's reinforcing is saving that dog's life like that's actually highly reinforcing to me coming from horses. I mean i worked with horses forever. And sure i would pat my worst and we all love giving our horses carrots but the day that a positive only trained horse makes it to the olympics. I'll shut my now wins a psa national or monte. Oh i g p or anything. Like challenge accepted. Guys like shows how it's done paves the way. Don't just bring the unicorn dog out like bring them all out and show us how it's done when not angry with these people. We're not resentful towards them. We have learned things that certainly might made china on paying more attention to positive methods and so forth and having a positive. I approach to dogs. That's been something that i think. Many of us have learned from n. At set new standards and guidelines and i remember chad macintosh in an interview. They held us accountable and they've made us be a little bit more honest with ourselves and bit more. Have a bit more credence when we're actually training dogs. But yeah patrick. Some of these people really do need to go fuck themselves because they will. I wouldn't say happily wouldn't you wouldn't be audacious enough to use the word happily but they will allow so many thousands and thousands of dogs to guard their death orbit stupidly medicated. When you can simply change the whole architecture. That dog's life. I remember lady one sent me a prank call back in the mile once and there was with it i thought she must be really disappointed with the protocol because our remember the dog. I remember befitting it up to her. And i remember at the time that she was really happy with the lesson and she said all this amazing but like most people at the start you know it was like i say is die light and when she saw the look of the caller and you know i spoke about my own experience. Cetera et cetera. Anyway i got the call back. And i thought i'm going bring her up on eight to find out what's actually going on here so i rang her and she said to me look. I'm sorry i actually meant to send tonight with the colorado actually forgot. It was a bit absent minded of me. Since i'm so happy. He called me she said. I'm actually giving the callback. Because she said. I don't need it anymore. It's transformed my dogs law. And she said. I just want to give it back to you so you can donate this one to somebody else in aide. Who can't afford one. And i mean that. Chuck me up a little bit on. A of thought is absolutely amazing and this is the at teaching students the other day in all my career in all the time. That i've been using wrong cola's not once in all the people i have. Faded has one person epic comeback to me and said it's because of you that you know you broke down the relationship with my dog. It's because of you that you caused pain and undue suffering with my dog. It's because of you that my dog has holes in it snake or anything never ever ever like. If i started to see a relationship with that happening in a string in that behavior going on site i walked. There's no way. I'm going to endorse this product. It's bainer the absolute polar opposite not one not one person in thirty years or let. Let me be real twenty eight years since the guy called. I dreamed tyler. In melbourne showed them to me from a goal i cold paddock kana from rail and he brought the first one that i ever saw and i had the same reaction. I was mortified. Thought it was the most hideous looking thing that i've ever seen and he said might just open your mind like he said i wouldn't show you the so he said i'm a dog lover. I love dogs. He said. I wouldn't recommend this to you. Say dogs pulling alive the place. He said we can fix this today. He said not permanently bid he said we can significantly improve things today. If you trust me an idea and then that changed my life. And now. I've had because of him because of his presence and he's ability to la almeida my mind being open my mind and share my experience with so many other people. I'm glad you're doing it to me. Well i mean. That was the point that i reached out to you. Is your podcasts about. Just because you don't understand something quit so hard is that and i don't want to thank you for joining me down because i do have resentment sometimes admittedly but i am with you. Both in that. I employ and want to be an expert in all of the techniques protocols science application of the science that everybody in positive community. We do all of that and are into all of that. And there's nothing that i am saying is bad about positive reinforcement training at all. What i'm just saying is that if an animal is not learning what they need to learn from the approach that you're taking be creative enough to be able to alter your approach and try something else may just think it has to be effective. I've heard you guys talk about that forever and it's just very hard. An offer is really emotionally draining work. You know it's hard to garner. The i've got these young kids that are working with me and we became nine center. We've been successful with eighty eighty seven percent of the dogs. That have come through. I was hoping for a fifty percent mark but these are dogs when jay came down to help us had a population of dogs. What he said to me is that you know people call me all the time and say i've got this bad ass dog and i had a population that was sent to me from canada. And i said listen. I saw him at ici. And i said in the past when i've had dogs like this and i want to drive expression work to get let them get their yeah's and then get that cooperative under control. I'm trying to go down with these this path of these dogs and i can't put them into dry because we can't get them out right so it was like whoa. This is like a whole nother ballgame and they were a mess in a lot of other ways to. I felt like all of their general processing was just so messed up and so he came down and showed us how to get be able to work through those issues through play and really how nj you know is really positive guy. His handling and everything too. So i'm all four hundred percent. We always want to go that route. I just. I think that i went off on a tangent. Just then i just. It's really hard for me when we are demonstrating we are measured. Nobody comes close to serving the number of unknown dogs that we do nobody that i know. I mean if you know somebody like. I will stand corrected and it's really hard to have people actively trying to you know. Put us out of business upon an idealism or a preference. I don't wanna. I don't want to like belabor the possible or not discussion. That's not where. I really meant to go. Then i circle back around guys thanking you for bringing that up just because you don't understand something and they keep forgiving us an opportunity to talk about the work that we're doing because i do think working with shelter dogs. It's made me a much better trainer. Even though as privileged marine mammals and exotic and everything working with dogs and adverse conditions without being able to rely upon relationship. Because that's a big thing for us. I took me a while to figure this out. Unlike wire things not working and even though we're building relationship every single time interacting with the dogs. I'm telling my team all the time. Don't rely on your relationship to be the thing that is changing their behavior. Because remember we've got a hand them off to somebody else might not even know to whom they're going right so we have to actually really kind of teach them some clinical stuff that we hope is gonna generalize and while we're still trying to work them in a kennel are kennel is pretty frigging amazing. But we're very privileged to have been donated that property for this purpose but the contexts. Little bit different. You're just trying hard to help as many as we can come out on the other side and be not so not suffering so much even in the process right so sometimes like off. I wish these people could just freak in stopping such keyboard. Gladiators sometimes in i've even my kennels eighteen eighteen the other. I've even thought about okay. I would love to give someone those eighteen. Kennels you've got thirty days you get this many people those eighteen kennels thirty days go and do it whatever way you can outperform me in the end. I'll hand the whole place over to you. I mean do be like show me yummy is i never take on that off. That's that's the issue so let's break the sock a little bit talk about the facility in florida. So you go. As as dogs playing for life is a big organization. You say you twenty. Four employees is twenty three employees. Now yeah and so. You're still all over the country in the us running seminars. Four shelters teaching them how they like implement playgroups to make dogs more adoptable and just sort of biologically fulfilled does a little bit. What is happening in florida. What what happens there so literally. In august of two thousand and seventeen. We were donated one hundred percent donated this property it was a turnkey. It wasn't adoption center but in a community that didn't need that big big glorious event adoption center where in north central florida and We've got thirteen acres fenced in. We've got a big yard called for yard. We've got multiple yards for dr expression work. We've kettles are very nice for kennel. Facility got huge play yards on top of that so we've just got this beautiful facility where we take dogs. They only owned dogs. We don't work with privately owned dogs over for dogs. That are at risk of euthanasia for behavioral reasons so shelters from around the country. Send us send us dogs and we do not have any sponsorship for that facility so it is a it's a fee for service it like a and train just like you guys would operate but it's just for dogs don't have ours and so shelters are raising money and we're raising money. Obviously we're working on trying to do that but we don't have any sponsors yet for the candidate center but that's what we do. We work with dogs. that are. It's us or euthanasia and there's some dogs we've recommended for sanctuary for the sanctuaries that we know will give them excellent the one sanctuary. The best friends animal society in utah. We've we've been able to get a few dogs in for them but it's it's very hard to get dogs to them and the only time that i will recommend dr sanctuaries if i feel like either. They're bite history or something's happened where i don't think it's responsible to rehome them but i know it have an excellent quality of life and their caretakers will be able to enjoy them as we were able to enjoy them like the dog just does not need to die. But unfortunately they're boxed in and then some dogs. we have determined noel. no way is the stock applicable. Then so what. Eighty seven percent made it have made it out from our place positively cool. What would determine that. Because you've got some pretty extreme dogs their dogs with severe bought histories that you're willing to work with. What is it that makes you cross the line and go now like this. One is not worth the effort or this one. We cannot help well. You know you just reminded me that. I didn't finish my story about jada when he when i told him. But that original population of dogs. He said most people call me. As i've got tough dog. I see them and he just starts do is place up. He said you've got a kennel. One percenters link this is you've got twenty seven dogs here. That are like the real deal. But i don't take in. I don't wanna misrepresent. I won't take in any dog with any history we review their histories and there are some if there are sustained attacks. If it's offensively aggressive to people we always separate defensive aggression from offensive aggression. That's kind of a cold for me. If i truly think. A dog is offensively aggressive to people. I'm not working to try to rehome that dog as a pet dog. There's a lot of dogs that have come in. That are super gnarly. That i'm really proud that we're starting to get really good working placements for them. And so what. I'm hoping eventually as the working groups that are going into shelters to that are purchasing dogs. But you know that's a trend now. A lot of places are rescue dogs. I'd like them to start coming to us. I knowing that we're almost frontloading. The dogs for at a couple of arson detection dogs a couple of regular scent detection. Dogs are caught x. Detection dobbs and one dog went for couples. Therapy dogs not working dogs at the level that we're talking about. But anyway i digress. So hanson we do have. Yeah we do have a listen. That department said these dogs that would be unsuitable in a home. Because of dr level or something like that or and and you have people contact you. And say hey. I'm looking for new detection. Prospect what if you got I think we've placed either six or seven so far working dogs. And they're all doing great and you're to individuals agencies contact to you and saying hey i'm in the market for adult. Can i come and test you dogs. And then purchasing from us at leichhardt roles. That's how you give them away free. I'm just trying to find them home. I just wanted him to go out and win. They're that talented. I want them to go do something special. I'm about to go to florida to deliver zoe to the throwaway dogs program in virginia because she's been selected to be an arson detection dog and i was holding out for ivan fell in love with the stock. I've a video of him turning around and he'd been playing with her. Come on and tell me you love. The song turns around. I said i love for the officers that right so zoey is about to become arson detection. Doug we don't train them for that. We just do your show prep training right and then and then there. That's not my thing that's not. Might they go to the programs then can finish the training properly. That's not our expertise But that dog is gonna do great things. The other dog that went through throwaway dogs Hansel he was the first slow nursed arson detection. Pit bull in the state of new jersey. And he's you know he's all over the media and the united states. That's were proud about that okay. So you should be doubts. Pardon me so you should pay young. I get excited about talking about enough. And so i hate to generalize. But i'm guessing a of those dogs in your shelter. They have blocking heads. Ryan yes yes and so it seems to be commonplace in rescues gonna be everywhere around the world. That is the most overburden under wanted. Dog is some sort of bulldog kinda. Mix right. Like blackie headed. Dogs that comes with it. A whole swagger of new challenges And i imagine that your staff a very attuned to that. Do you ever get pointy dogs that they in throw a spanner in the mix like you might get a super aggressive ship it or something like that. Does that ever turn up. Is that for sure. I mean we've had all different kinds of breeds and one of the shepherds that we worked with that we lost ultimately at let them go was there's an instability in him and he was never going to be a working dog he was. I've actually met him to. We were just trying to get him to pet dog status just to stabilize him but we have. Gosh kim tell you how many of our population but we get all different kinds but yes we get a lot of wacky headed type dogs but we get. I think we've had one or two. Mala that have come through bunch of american bulldogs bunch of those couple of shepherds and the rest are all mix pointy mix. You're blocking mixie. And we went through a spike in australia. Where rottweilers enemy of the nation at one stage and i was sort of on the sheet least but then it turns back to the block. He hid dogs one. Stage a stray. There was a total ban on german shepherds. So i think there was like a twenty ban that you couldn't import or german shepherd. So that got lifted. I think around about the nineteen seventies or something like that. I didn't yeah. There was a there was an issue. German shepherds when i really got involved in professional training and i did talk about this a lot to people that i'm working with to is that when i got into training there was a shelter down the road from me and went on went down. There was run by two ladies and occasionally we'd take them a bag of food just to donate them a bag food to feed the dogs and the kennel was just a little average. Sorta kennel. But the two ladies down they. They had a bunch of volunteers. Down there in the kennel was half full of dogs and occasionally every now and then they bring me up and saying oh you know. We've got this rottweiler coming. Because i would take dogs on we would rehabilitate them and turn them into service dogs for law enforcement or whatever we were doing at the time and You know the guy down there and have a conversation with them. They show me through the selection dogs. I've got and i'd be out take couple of on because they have the right type of traits that we were looking for and go down there and have a cup of coffee and a cake with them and stuff like that and know. I'll tell ya. Has it going here really good. Very manageable phosphine. Fifteen years they were inundated inundated with dogs. Like i'm talking a little shelter. That was run. Luckily i probably half full of dogs. Fifteen years later. Absolutely in undated couldn't get enough money. They were constantly struggling trying to get people to support them and bring food into to fade the dog. That was just amazing how that changed and also the landscape that changed in the top dogs. That were coming in. It was distressing was distressing for them because they were they were basically drowning and all people around them were doing was describing the water drowning in which was really sad to say. I mean we When i say we. I'm talking about me and other people in the environment. We're trying to help them as much as we could. But that were just so undefended and so defeated all the time and facing the same sort of hurdles that you're facing they had a lot of people telling them how to run their business all suggesting what they should do but none of them would reach into the pocket so none of them would actually come down and get off their awesome actually get down there and clean kennels with them or walk dogs or anything like that which you know. I really find quite sad so again you know paying a compliment to you and people like you and your staff and the people that are out there actually hands on with dogs. I've got nothing but pure respect for you guys because it can be a very distressing job. It can be very rewarding but it can be very distressing when you overwhelmed with such a large population of dogs. That never seems to stop. There's always just a cascading save dogs coming into the shelters all time so you have nothing but pure respect love from me. Oh well thank you. And i do want to if i may just give a shout out like are the shelter programming that we do. We call the dog every day program. Every dog should have an opportunity to get out of kennel enrichment every day. Playgroups are away for you to do that for a lot. But we're not insisting every dog was plager- just get them out the kennel everyday. Make sure of that and that level of enrichment programming and us going around building the teams and being able to serve. More shelters is thanks to that. We have major sponsors on that side. The animal farm foundation was one of our original funders and has been with us along the way that's a pit bull advocacy group in the united states and then the aspca in the petco foundation came in big for us a couple of years ago Three years ago and gave us tremendous grant of to provide our trainings to shelters to open admission shelters municipal shelters and they just signed us back up again for another three years so we do have very generous supporters on the enrichment program. We provide to shelters. The canine center is separate completely. It's still under our umbrella. But it's a it's a separate entity we that that's where were that's a different ballgame over there but we have very very generous supporters and for basic programming. So that the spca being big funder they're cool with the techniques and tools that you use their on board with all that so their funding again is for the the basic programming. So they're not funding. The advanced training behavior piece. They are supportive. I feel like they treat us as if repairs in the in the united states. The aspca is the one at the national organization that actually invest most advanced training behavioral work for shelter animals and they actually have the most expertise on their dr. Pamela reed whom you know. She's a hero of mine. She's with the aspca she's been dr center. Army malva book accelerated method. Everybody's got to read that book. A great so dr reed has been on site and said that what you were speaking to she said. Yep i see all these tools in use. I do not see deteriorated relationship. I'm seeing well trained happy dogs and the has sent us some dogs that Which i really admire that. They felt like the dogs actually would thrive with our programming. So but i'm just saying that they're to be fair. The advanced training behavior work that we're doing is not necessarily what their funding right but none of it would be alive without the generous support of those groups and donors that we have and everything but but this advanced piece that got handed to me right when this facility got handed to you. How can you say no coups. And so it's just a whole 'nother level that we're trying to develop trying to do well. That's really exciting. So but you do take private donors right so like if if someone's listening now and goes like i'm going to give those guys some money. They can do that. Awesome new website. It's dogs playing for life. All spelled out you can get to it with dot org or dot com and the other thing that i'm really proud of you know with covid and we have not been able to use it when we were shut down on seminars for a period of time and so we took that opportunity to put together a learning library that you can access through the website so a lot of our playgroup stuff what we were talking about earlier. There's over six hours worth of video clips with notes and instructions on them and it's actually a really. Comprehensive listing library that we are able to put together that is available for free for people who wanna learn more about the dog socializations. We're really proud of that being able to do that. That's all anyone around. The world can get onto that now and even though role sort of separated from each other they can educate themselves on your techniques get that implemented and when the world opens up again. Maybe you can come out of the see that implementation. Exactly and wilson now. Doing webinars like everybody. We just launched our first webinar series of. It's the same playgroup presentation that we give were on the ground but were now giving it just cycling webinars and the the tendency has been has been huge so that seems to really be invigorating some groups to and then some groups will feel like they can go to shot and some groups will say well when you guys are on the ground again. We'd like you to come in and work with us so poorly excited. I mean it's a tough time for everybody but just like everybody else. You've got to reinvent ourselves. You want to keep doing the work. You gotta do what you gotta do young. Hey so before the last question on. You've been doing this a long time. Now like what sort of follow through dc so you know typically when we do seminars we end up in the same place every year or second year or something like that and have you had the experience yet where you've been to a shelter you've educated the staff and then you've been back eb a period light on a number of years or whatever and it's all new stuff you know because as things change over the volunteers change but they're doing what you taught however many years ago like generational. Yeah like you finding that that knowledge is being passed on the with shelters and the or rather than because you know sometimes you taste. These events and people walk away and most as as good teachers with motivational speaker. Zimbabwe and people walk away book going to do that and then like the next day. I'm gonna do it the next day. It's like what was that thing again. That animal welfare is like compounded with all of that near right. There's a lot of places the turnover but actually had everybody put together a gay. Gimme the latest and greatest. So i can share with them so specifically to your point ninety one percent of the shelters that we taught to run playgroups have continued the practice. Ninety eight percent feel the playgroups result in better adoption matches ninety nine percent field that shelter. Dogs have a better quality of life. Because of playgroups ninety one percent said that implementing playgroups improved the handling skills of their staff volunteers us and then eighty five. Percents said that implementing playgroups improve staff and volunteer morale and that for shelters that are in running playgroups for at least a year thirty three decrease decrease in the average canine late length of stay thirty three percent decrease in length of stay and seven percent average increase in save rate or library straight so those are the stats from shelters stopping us. Yeah and those numbers because you said you do seventy in the first year. From how many shelters those statistics drawn. I would have to follow up with you because the how so. We have almost a fifty percent survey response rate. But that doesn't give me the number of how many of those shelters. I will get that number to you. Okay cool off the top of my head done that. It's probably pushing thousand and if you're doing seventeen a year no no no. We've only know that was my first year with just my son and i and then we started building up the teams and then we were doing longer engagements. So we're right now. We're at two hundred eighty eight shelters that we've been on the ground for just just out in the first year and we're like and learning as we went like okay let's slowdown. Let's give them more time than the funding period for me. It was almost like speed dating in the beginning like we came rushing in like it was good for us. Hope was good for you. Were out you know. And then we started to learn how to expand it. And yes we do. Go back to shelters and sp sam. Petco have been really generous with allowing us to use our judgment. If we feel that it is will have a great impact on life saving because the organization. We can circle back around and really massage that shelter again if they need more support. We're trying to get better and better. Oh that and strangely and kind of sadly what we're learning is that whether it really sticks at a shelter not it really depends upon the individuals that are there might hate. That's the answer. Because i can't do something to necessarily make that change other than continuously trying to learn how to be better teachers so that even if we don't have the ideal people we can still inspire in get them to get into it. Yeah that's the thing that we've noticed. It depends on the people that are there. That's so important to think you're at the end of these events when you teach anything it's less important what people understood but more important how you made them feel where i feel like they can do it rather than go like you. I know exactly how to do it. But i'm overwhelmed. It's better that people alike. I'm pretty good with it. And i'm gonna do it like i'm gonna i'm gonna give it a crack. The dodgers really did shape change people's minds like a lot of times. We notice in the presentations. It's a pretty hefty presentation because we can if we just went out to demonstrate. I think people get overwhelmed. We have explain why we're going about it the way that we're going about it and kind of get them bought in and kind of prepared because it's pretty much here we go. We're getting on the roller coaster. Here we go. There's it's not somebody you've got two hundred dollars in that building and we are going to get those two hundred dogs out over a course of days in the beginning rate and people sometimes. They can't even wrap their brains around like there's just no way we're going to get all of these dogs out and for us. It's really the objective. So sometimes people are really tentative. They're a little bit afraid but and sometimes when we leave you can see the insecurity but we're really like we tell people just. There's no way to do this perfectly so that you're never going to have a fight so what we're going to prepare you to understand how to mitigate that said as best as possible and the bottom line is just like driving a car. You don't get better at driving a car by watching the video or you you've got to do it got to get out there and you're on those play groups and you will be able to handle situations as they come and you're gonna have to practice and then you debrief and you learn what you need to learn from it. You figure out. What mistakes have i make. How can i avoid that again. And then shake it off and you get back in the saddle. And you do your playgroups again. You will get better. And better as you my zing. I mean tell us we're getting contact with you. Hit that website again. What's old contact details info at d. p. f. l. dot org. That's the way to get in contact about anything that interests you. The website is really proud of it. Thanks to the team. They're working with us. The website is dogs plaguing for life all spelled out dot org or dot com either way as we can find us and we have a manual for our flagrant. Manual is free to download online. If you're interested in figuring out that way and now we've got that amazing learning library that the team put together. I didn't have much to do that. Other than the original filming of it as we. It was six years of playgroup seminars that they just went through that whole library and pulled out all the nuggets and put it together. Well hopefully there is a suga mama or sugar daddy out. There will several of them. That will validate exactly what you doing. And we think it's a great program. Think it's absolutely wonderful what you're doing and it's very inspiring. I was very inspired. When i saw you at some speech in florida so it was just wonderful and i'm really glad that we got to make the time to have this conversation. If there's anybody who's out there in the audience or that can help you can donate will make life easier for what you guys are. Doing in program get onboard. Well thank you and definitely when youtube can come stateside again. That only what. I'd like to attend the seminar. That i missed yours. Pat gland both view. We would love to have you at the canine center to teach do course for us and Open it up as an event. It's a beautiful beautiful events center and so we would be honored to host you anytime amazing. That'd be great. Yep done deal back to florida. Can't get away from that place. Hey thanks so much for your time. Oh no it's a pleasure absolutely absolutely. Thanks for giving up your time. Appreciate everything that you do. Mcadoo the wrap-up. Yup that's it for another episode of the canton paradigm. As if you like what you. He plays lock right. Share subscribe can do that through whatever subscription. So she downloaded from. John support the show. The best way to do that is patriots. Couple of bucks a month. Get you extra episodes there but you know you could just give as much as you like. The other thing you can do is get some cool. Merge a fanny pack or even tell also stream some minute who's getting a tapestry of layers on me. I mean i'm he's getting one so yeah you could get yourself on something ridiculous. We got a couple of bucks for every year. We ever ridiculous keeps the lots on right. It knows every ridiculous automobiles and if only and contacted us the best way to do that easy. If you want trainee advice groups source that through the facebook group Canada paradigm discussion group. Talk to glenn individually do that but if it's about the show something we both need to say place your name out we info at the canine paradigm dot com. We pushed off on their record. Laugh at glen about the email that we overnight outweight guy. Got around okay. That's it go by.

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Alphabet Worker Form A Union - DTH

Daily Tech Headlines

06:27 min | Last week

Alphabet Worker Form A Union - DTH

"You're unique and so are your taxes. Turbo tax live has experienced tax experts. Who listen to you. Learn about your unique tax situations and answer your questions and on top of all that they can do your taxes from start to finish. Maybe you started investing and want some reassurance from an expert that you're doing things right maybe you're now self employed and needs some expert advice on what qualifies as a home office deduction or maybe it rather have an expert file your taxes for you so you can focus on what matters most no matter what. Your situation is turbo. tax live tax. Experts can answer your questions. Give tax advice review your return before you file or even do it all for you. Turbo tax live. Gives you confidence that you're uniquely you. Taxes are done right into a turbo tax. Live file with the help of an expert or let an expert file for you. These are the daily tech headlines for monday january fourth. Twenty twenty one. I'm rich ruffling. A group of over two hundred alphabet. Workers announced the formation of the alphabet. Workers union these workers committed to setting aside one percent of yearly compensation to union dues. These include contract workers temps and vendors which make up more than half of all workers at alphabet companies. As of september thirtieth. Two thousand twenty alphabet employed one hundred and thirty two thousand one hundred twenty one people. The union will be chaired by google software. Engineers perot cole and chewy shaw in the new york. Times op-ed information of the union. Coal and shaw said google's contract with the pentagon to use a in project naven the firing of a researcher timid gebru and forced for claims of sexual harassment as alphabet management ignoring the concerns of workers in the op-ed. The union pledged live by google's former motto. Don't be evil. uk judge vanessa. Barrister of westminster's magistrate's court ruled that wikileaks founder. Julian assange cannot be extradited to the united states to face trial on charges of violating the espionage. Act the judge ruled. The extradition would be unjust and oppressive setting assange mental health extreme risk of suicide if extradited to the us. The judge rejected assange defense that the charges were an attack on press freedom however saying that the us brought the case in good faith in two thousand nineteen asandra was charged with seventeen counts of violating the espionage act resulting from the publication of documents provided by former us army intelligence analyst chelsea manning according to interviews conducted by the new york times the solar wind supply chain attack on its orion platform could have impacted up to two hundred. Fifty organizations initial estimates believed only a few dozen organizations were impacted microsoft recently disclosed. It's resellers retargeted in supply attack businesses. That often have direct access to customer networks for setting up software installations. The report also found that early warning systems implanted in four networks by the. Nsa failed to detect the attack with attackers orchestrating. The attack from inside the us taking advantage of nsa rules against domestic spying. Investigators are currently looking at if the attack compromise solar and software development offices in belarus the czech republic and poland shareholders of the french. Automaker peugeot voted to approve. A merger with fiat chrysler. If approved by fiat chrysler shareholders. The merged company would be named Valued at fifty two billion dollars and the world's fourth largest automaker celente zwick control fourteen auto brands including fiat maserati. Jeep dodge ram peugeot appel and. Es the wall street journal reports that cumulative us streaming subscribers across the major streaming platforms grew over fifty percent from the start of and doubled since q one two thousand nineteen the media. research group. kagan found that u. s. households now subscribed to an average of three point one streaming services up from two point seven last year with three out of four households subscribing to at least one net consistently led streaming traffic peaking at just under twenty terabytes per second in late march while second in terms of subscribers. Prime video was fourth and traffic. Behind hulu and disney plus net flicks also led all services and the number of original episodes released totaling over twelve hundred across q two and q three while Shut down its streaming service. Last year its content may still live on the wall street journal. Sources say the company is nearing a deal with roku for its content catalog kubis content would reportedly be editor roka's free ad supported roku channel streaming service facebook announced that. What's app saw a record. One point four billion video and voice calls placed on new year's eve. This was the most ever on a single day and a fifty percent increase from new year's eve. Two thousand nineteen facebook messenger also saw its largest ever volume of group video calls in the us. Seeing double the average daily volume. Facebook live at instagram. Live also had fifty five million broadcast worldwide. According to a recent job posting for a software engineering role in the windows core user experiences team microsoft is planning a sweeping visual rejuvenation of windows designed to let customers know that windows back window. Central sources said back in october this. Ui changes code-named sun valley and update the start menu file explore and built an apps to make the ui more consistent lg display showing off forty eight inch flexible old panel prototype at this year's virtual. Cas this spike and benefits radius up to one thousand millimetres offering a curve configuration for immersive gaming but a flat and configuration for traditional tv. Watching experience display includes. Lg displays cinematic sound odd that vibrates screen to produce sound and offers up to one hundred twenty hertz refresh rate and response time point one milliseconds. It's a prototype so no word on if or when it will come to market while way reinstated all tencent games on its mobile platform on january first after moving them earlier that day writer sources said while we had insisted on a fifty percent cut of tencent game sales on its platform according to a statement from tencent both sides will continue to work together to bring better experiences and services to consumers and finally samsung sent out invites to its latest galaxy unpacked event on january fourteenth at ten. Am eastern tagline. Welcome to the everyday. Epic the teaser. Video appears to show a smartphone camera module. Remember from our discussion detect news of the day subscribed to new ad. Tech new show dot com. You can find shots there and links to all these headlines as well. Thanks for listening. We'll talk to you next time. And from all of us here at daily tech headlines remember have a super sparkly day.

perot cole chewy shaw gebru judge vanessa westminster's magistrate's cou asandra google chelsea manning us nsa celente zwick fiat maserati Workers union Es the wall street journal fiat chrysler Julian assange
Alphabet Worker Form A Union  DTH

Daily Tech News Show

06:27 min | Last week

Alphabet Worker Form A Union DTH

"You're unique and so are your taxes. Turbo tax live has experienced tax experts. Who listen to you. Learn about your unique tax situations and answer your questions and on top of all that they can do your taxes from start to finish. Maybe you started investing and want some reassurance from an expert that you're doing things right maybe you're now self employed and needs some expert advice on what qualifies as a home office deduction or maybe it rather have an expert file your taxes for you so you can focus on what matters most no matter what. Your situation is turbo. tax live tax. Experts can answer your questions. Give tax advice review your return before you file or even do it all for you. Turbo tax live. Gives you confidence that you're uniquely you. Taxes are done right into a turbo tax. Live file with the help of an expert or let an expert file for you. These are the daily tech headlines for monday january fourth. Twenty twenty one. I'm rich ruffling. A group of over two hundred alphabet. Workers announced the formation of the alphabet. Workers union these workers committed to setting aside one percent of yearly compensation to union dues. These include contract workers temps and vendors which make up more than half of all workers at alphabet companies. As of september thirtieth. Two thousand twenty alphabet employed one hundred and thirty two thousand one hundred twenty one people. The union will be chaired by google software. Engineers perot cole and chewy shaw in the new york. Times op-ed information of the union. Coal and shaw said google's contract with the pentagon to use a in project naven the firing of a researcher timid gebru and forced for claims of sexual harassment as alphabet management ignoring the concerns of workers in the op-ed. The union pledged live by google's former motto. Don't be evil. uk judge vanessa. Barrister of westminster's magistrate's court ruled that wikileaks founder. Julian assange can not extradited to the united states to face trial on charges of violating the espionage. Act the judge ruled. The extradition would be unjust and oppressive setting assange mental health extreme risk of suicide if extradited to the us. The judge rejected assange defense that the charges were an attack on press freedom however saying that the us brought the case in good faith in two thousand nineteen asandra is charged with seventeen counts of violating the espionage act resulting from the publication of documents provided by former us army intelligence analyst chelsea manning according to interviews conducted by the new york times the solar wind supply chain attack on its orion platform could have impacted up to two hundred. Fifty organizations initial estimates believed only a few dozen organizations were impacted microsoft recently disclosed. It's resellers retargeted in supply attack businesses. That often have direct access to customer networks for setting up software installations. The report also found that early warning systems implanted in four networks by the. Nsa failed to detect the attack with attackers orchestrating. The attack from inside the us taking advantage of nsa rules against domestic spying. Investigators are currently looking at if the attack compromise solar and software development offices in belarus the czech republic and poland shareholders of the french. Automaker peugeot voted to approve. A merger with fiat chrysler. If approved by fiat chrysler shareholders. The merged company would be named Valued at fifty two billion dollars and the world's fourth largest automaker celente zwick control fourteen auto brands including fiat maserati. Jeep dodge ram peugeot appel and. Es the wall street journal reports that cumulative us streaming subscribers across the major streaming platforms grew over fifty percent from the start of and doubled since q one two thousand nineteen the media. research group. kagan found that u. s. households now subscribed to an average of three point one streaming services up from two point seven last year with three out of four households subscribing to at least one net consistently led streaming traffic peaking at just under twenty terabytes per second in late march while second in terms of subscribers. Prime video was fourth and traffic. Behind hulu and disney plus net flicks all services and the number of original episodes released totaling over twelve hundred across q. Two and q. Three while shut down. Its streaming service. Last year its content may still live on the wall street journal. Sources say the company is nearing a deal with roku for its content catalog kubis content would reportedly be editor roka's free ad supported roku channel streaming service facebook announced that. What's app saw a record. One point four billion video and voice calls placed on new year's eve. This was the most ever on a single day and a fifty percent increase from new year's eve. Two thousand nineteen facebook messenger also saw its largest ever volume of group video calls in the us. Seeing double the average daily volume. Facebook live at instagram. Live also had fifty five million broadcast worldwide. According to a recent job posting for a software engineering role in the windows core user experiences team microsoft is planning a sweeping visual rejuvenation of windows designed to let customers know that windows back window. Central sources said back in october this. Ui changes code-named sun valley and update the start menu file explore and built an apps to make the ui more consistent lg display showing off forty eight inch flexible old panel prototype at this year's virtual. Cas this spike and benefits radius up to one thousand millimetres offering a curve configuration for immersive gaming but a flat and configuration for traditional tv. Watching experience display includes. Lg displays cinematic sound odd that vibrates screen to produce sound and offers up to one hundred twenty hertz refresh rate and response time point one milliseconds. It's a prototype so no word on if or when it will come to market while way reinstated all tencent games on its mobile platform on january first after moving them earlier that day writer sources said while we had insisted on a fifty percent cut of tencent game sales on its platform according to a statement from tencent both sides will continue to work together to bring better experiences and services to consumers and finally samsung sent out invites to its latest galaxy unpacked event on january fourteenth at ten. Am eastern tagline. Welcome to the everyday. Epic the teaser. Video appears to show a smartphone camera module. Remember from our discussion detect news of the day. Subscribe to daily new ad tech new. Show dot com. You can find shots there and links to all these headlines as well. Thanks for listening. We'll talk to you next time. And from all of us here at daily tech headlines remember have a super sparkly day.

perot cole chewy shaw gebru judge vanessa westminster's magistrate's cou google chelsea manning us Nsa celente zwick fiat maserati Workers union Es the wall street journal fiat chrysler Julian assange
Episode 162: Poking Larry Krohns bear

The Canine Paradigm

1:03:35 hr | 2 d ago

Episode 162: Poking Larry Krohns bear

"Wants happening in the canine industry for all the latest news views and expert opinions. Stay right here for the canine paradigm. You'll hear from industry leaders. Experts doyennes of the industry learn colleagues movers and shakers and the odd randy guest get the latest insights and expert advice from both here and abroad from the people in the nov. Now here your hosts glenn cook and pat steward am lofty fulton. And i'm outta here. Glenn yes guess what. What your new ad all. i like it though. You're gonna say new year new year now. I'm still version. And who's not a shitty version of themselves anymore. Go ahead and tell me the head. The fading befit on zelina god is dog quip. Yes jason's only half the man. He was Year ago and now he's on an amazing journey but he deal cell's amazing equipment best equipment and you can get mistrial. You want dog training equipment. He's the only man to go two. Yup it's not just equipment ada. He did those cages for my car. Annoying fucking rat there really good. Yeah like a new range of stuff is a new line of gear. I think it's hope clean. We'll something like that line. Klein is it. Yeah think client line. That's how i read it clean. Make mad some really good stuff. Yep so i've got to do a little review for him on that but don't check out his website because he has got one yes. Yeah on zelina dot quip. Can't help lines wet. I e i n w c k is that correct on zwick doug quick. Check it out if you're in australia. That's the only place you should be getting yogi from yet. None of those other places right. Just go straight to the buffet. Yeah to say. Buffet gives a deal now. I know you north. Americans probably just like god damn by some of that up me so i think if you want treadmill as you can actually still get them through jason. Because he's sort of just as the middle guy anyway and he knows he knows who's making the good meal yup but if you want other dog training equipment mock lapointe lapointe. Yes yeah it's from or around. Good guy canadian using matt very very good man. Yup and he's got everything he's like can on dynamics as training equipment. Leashes all the normal stuff you'd expect to see dynamic. Yeah he's website is much better than jason. It's i actually was a client of cannon dynamics more we knew makhala point and the purchase process was seamless. The website amazing. It's very good. It's very detailed in. Its light at well. Any covers all of north america yet. Which canadia is included in that as well as in canada. Yeah kind of dynamics east canadian yes on no. He's in ottawa knee. Some someone that doesn't matter doesn't matter is bobby doctrine. We'll show thank you michael point. We have one other sponsor yes melanie. Benway kiner canine. Yep from the train. Town itself. Ashland virginia yup. So if you need in home behavior modification yep she'll come round and look outside on. We did the way she does. She very kindly gave away a whole business model of into twenty twenty the high school program. If you know someone that needs the high school program yup get them onto million benway. Can you canine. Yep oh you know what people should probably wanna learn more about home school program beyond what she gave away for free on the show right idea. They should get in contact with her. She should charge them to take them about that kind of stuff. We just opened up a whole new revenue stream for you. Absolutely you're welcome. Welcome back to the ken paradigm. I'm your host pet stewart joining studio by my co host. Glenn cook and joining us on the phone. All the way from america for his third or fourth. Time larry on the second second. No no we've had him on. The phone did person. This'll be at least that the third did i well. I'm behind the times. Larry crowne welcome to the show. Thanks guys always appreciate being asked to be on you guys. You guys do a hell with job man. I love your stuff. Thanks man appreciate you can dali. You're just so good i listened. I listened to your lives. Podcast and be honest. I kind of took a little break. I needed a break from podcast and books and bitten. I just needed a mental break. You know what. I mean and just started back up and i was thinking at guys. You're really good at what you do. And you're just the perfect team when it comes to this and it's nice that there's two separate opinions and voices they're just enjoy it. I enjoy guys. Thanks man pretty much idea. Especially like being compared to dolly parton and kenny rogers. I was basically raised on that in my house. My parents allows that stuff so it was a huge compliment. Like you can't even imagine so. Thank you yeah. Absolutely what a great couple really be compared to two songs about kenny. Rogers really loved as a kid growing up. And that was lady and the coward of the county me too and yeah you know what i still have them on. My platelets and coward of the county is always just painted that picture. You know it tells a story and you could just see that happening. I love it. You know lionel ritchie wrote lady guests. I saw a reunion between the two of them a grammy show or anything like that but he told about how i think. Lawn ritchie voted on the toilet. Or something like that and the two of them were laughing and then they got up and sang it together and it brought to my watching the two of them seeing it together it was just a beautiful rendition of the song and fantastic stuff. So what's happening in dogs fellas not just country music. We haven't caught up with you. Larry scenes the eyesafe. Pay that one that was that was in colorado in colorado and we we got into that little sweatshop room that we had and we had a good conversation. So let's catch up what's been happening in your dog world over the last twelve months. Not too much has changed the whole kobe. Thing i've gotten busier and so very grateful for that. I don't take that for granted. I think because we have less time in every other area in our lives. It's definitely made the dog stuff a little easier for me. You know and i hate that. There are so many in our industry that are hurting suffering. That kind of sucks and almost almost makes you feel a little guilty that you're kind of on the opposite end of things is nothing's really changed. You know and i guess. I'm just in an area that i'm not going to say. We have been hit hard because everybody is. Of course you know but it just seems like the people i'm dealing with. Nothing has changed. You know we're just trucking along and boy his much of a good time that we had in colorado. If we only would have known i think we would have extended that triple little bit. You know absolutely. It's an interesting thing that survivor's guilt. It's kind of like what a lot of people have in especially in industries. That have flourished under strange circumstances at around. It can be really can be a strange feeling to be doing well when other people on not i. It is yeah. It's not always something that makes you feel so good. You know a resonate with that because you know like a few times where we've said it's hard to know what to do or how to do the right thing but the positive messages that have been coming through and i'm sure you're getting nasa's well larry is. People are messaging ask collectively and individually saying. Thank you so much keeping the show going while tom. Tab bain toughen things haven't been so good hearing you guys in the positive message you're doing the education the laughs and just the entertainment the putting out for people is really keeping spirits up. That itself has been a real blessing to hear that from other people as well. I'm sure you'll get the same thing. Might because when i reached out to you and said love to have you on the show you kind of said oh really you know you wanna talk to me again and i thought well might. You know you've been putting out so much great content lightly and really keeping people spirits up. And i mean to be honest in your own country. You're and around the world respectively. You're a bit of a national treasure because you've been giving people so much generous content and really keeping the wheels turning in the industry every so it's a huge. Thank you from us. Might because i enjoy watching what you're doing and the people speaking to in the message you're putting out there and very positive about how you doing that as well. So great stuff was mary. I'll go mike. Larry cole him as well. Actually my australian friends call me lies so a lot of over there I appreciate that a lot glen. You know when you asked me. I was like really you know i feel like i'm so oversaturated in the industry i don't wanna be that guy that just tries to put it out stuff to put out stuff you know what i mean. I've never wanted to get to that point. I try to get on and do something. If i think i have something that made benefits someone you gotta remember. I'm dealing with mostly people in just the pet dog industry people that are really struggling and have nowhere to turn. They know nothing. And so sometimes i feel you know we deal with so many trainers all three of us. Do you know that you almost feel like you want to apologize to the people who know all this stuff and say you know you gotta understand ice. We take this stuff for granted but the average dog owner has no clue no clue what they're doing or where to start where to turn and then they wind up spending a ton of money with someone who's basically not going to help them they're not gonna give them the education and they're no different than they were before except now they've spent a lot of money you know and so i just try to keep really harping on the basics. The the simple things that sometimes we all take for granted a little bit. That's all one thing. I wanted to have a chat with you about today. Mighties that like you do put out a lot of content and across a lot of different platforms right. You've been doing those facebook lives. I think you do those into instagram. As well and then you've got like a huge back catalogue stuff on youtube. That's all free information. That goes out to people something that i've noticed that you handle very well and i wanted to discuss with your baddies criticism that you would get online editing. Econ please everybody right. And i think many reasons why people would do that. Jealousy is john. You know people just don't agree with what you have to say that's fair enough as well. There's all these different reasons. But i think once you develop a certain level of profile it's inevitable that height comes in and you're an interesting person. I wanted to sort of discuss that. We've because you're very active. Say like i look at. Oh your when people comment on staff you reply and so you must see some of the negative comments that come in also like some people you know they put up content and it's like said and forget and they don't like people could be saying horrible things and they could give a fuck that even look right but you must see it because i see you replying to other people. So if it's cool with you man. I wanted to sorta discuss that a little bit. Yeah there was a time pat where the negative stuff would really affect me. I really let it bother me. Because i think sometimes some of it came from a place where i think. Maybe they thought. I was trying to do something i wasn't. I wasn't very honest in what i was doing. Or there was some kind of hidden agenda. And there's never been you know there's never been and so there was a time where bothered me as you go on and what i tell people when they come to my defenses guys. I get anywhere between two and five hundred messages a day that i see emails text messages. Phone calls and ninety nine point. Nine percent of them are unbelievably positives. Like really really shots. I tried to focus more on that. And what i've noticed is the people that really go out of their way. Come for me. it's always the same type of person. Meaning they have in don a lot of positive attention for their ability or their dog training They're struggling in their personal life or they're struggling in their business. Life are struggling in both and they've tried getting their information out there and no one has interest in it. Because it's not very good to be honest with you and so i put out so much stuff. I'm an easy target. And i know i tell people when i do these seminars. If i only knew meet through videos i would not like very much looked like i come off like an arrogant douchebag and i'm not but if i find that something has worked for me over and over and over again not just with my dogs are one or two dogs here but over and over. I'm going to share it if you could use it. Great if you say shit. That's okay. And i never mind anyone criticises in my training would i don't have tolerance for patients for is the bullshit lies that a few people out there like the kinda focus on you know. I have no tolerance for liars. None and i'm at a point. Now you know for the past twenty five years as we were talking about earlier. I've had to watch everything i do. Say so i've had to learn to be very very patient because people could use my job against me. It's been done once before. Maybe more i don't know of it but once before i had a trainer tried to use my job against me in contact my agency now. I'm free man. I can do and say whatever the hell i want and start larry falko show you nearly said it. Then he could and like. I said you can criticize my training. I'm totally okay. With that. Because i tell everybody that i work with when i do these seminars. This is just my wife does mean as the only way doesn't even mean is the best white this just the way i do things but if you're going to run your mouse and you're going to make up lies and say things that you shouldn't now i had no issue it smack in someone in the mouth as i have nothing to loose for it. You know i'm a. I'm a good guy. I'm a really really nice guy. But i could be a real motherfucker too. I really can and your comes a time where certain people could only push your buttons so much you know what i mean and you guys know how it is you could turn to cheat. You could turn your cheek ninety nine percent of the time but there's just that one day that for some reason the same ship that never bothers you just goes through you and you wanna turn into a savage savaging. That's what concerns me. And that's what my wife talks to me about every single day because before i started my career guys with the government i was a hothead you know i i was a very aggressive angry person at times and i think she's so scared me going back to that because now i don't have to worry but most of it's good and and again if you look at the people that do criticize it's the same type of person. They just have nothing going for themselves. And the other thing i do hate is when they do make some kind of comment or i give me an example. I put up a video. That anatolian shepherd the other day extremely dry boring stops right but i tried to show everything. I tried to show as much as i can. It's not fun to watch. It's not sexy so right away. You're going to get the people back. Talk about how owner should not have this dog. This dog is meant to be aggressive towards dogs. This dog should be out in a field protecting livestock. Well guess what no shit no shit. And here's what you don't know asshole. That dog was out on farm. That dog was given the job that it was to do and the dog couldn't do it. It was failing and it was being attacked by other dogs. It was pushed out of the pack. So these are little things. There's always a story there but people just think they know so instead of criticizing a person she busted her ass to keep the dog alive in a really tough situation with other dogs in the home. You know what i mean. people should just. They should really think before they say something. So stupid thinking that we have an address or we don't know this yet. You know and i know it's a long winded answer but that should get old really does not a good answer. I appreciate it. I think that a big thing that we say on social media around the world at the moment is just the failure to appreciate nuance and so people say like they kind of look at content. We've intent to find a problem and the moment they do. Then they're like. I got you right. And there's a lotta things here here i go. I'm gonna talk this out right. And i'm gonna show you fuck you. I'm going to look like a hero and there's just failure to sort of look at things and go How do they get to that. Point like ward is like. I don't have to agree with you and this is to speak on biegel things than dogs. Everything that's going on in the world at the moment you know you can look at stuffing. I don't agree with you. Data will but. I will try very hard to try and figure out how you got to that point of view right like how is what does the set of circumstances that led you to think. That was the right thing to say. That was the right thing to do. And i think sometimes now like people have become quite tribal to the detriment of the biggest tribe. A sort of thing about this a lot. A lot of the personality traits that causes us to fight with each other were actually sort of selected for when we were small tribes that had to fight together not against each other so perfect example is i don't wanna get political but when we talk about say left and right leaning people with the idea. Is that meant to work together. You meant to work in unison and sort of end up in the middle. You're not meant to actually turn on. H how that you meant to. There's not meant to be a left tribe and there's not meant to be a right tribe there's meant to be one tribe that has a bunch of people that say like this is how we should do things and the other brew paypal say. Yeah i see that. But this is what i think. And maybe a certain set of circumstances. We listen to these guys. In in a certain set of circumstances these go as a lead to a bit lost. all in. it's really meant to work together rather than adults. Because they don't like how we're meant to leave when i'm going to be fighting with each other to be working together trying to not be fucking sabertooth targets right. See that trickling into the social media. Space into the dog world and the dogwoods. It's solicits emotion in a way that we don't see anywhere else maybe in horses people tell me it's the same in the horse will where you can just look at someone. The thirty second clip of an hour long thing. That happened in your fucking fuck you right like you don't know anything hang on mainly you don't have any context you're just looking at that one pace and how dare you develop an opinion on someone from a thirty second clip of a fifty year old man. Who's got like fifty years of unseen things by you leading to that one circumstance. I really passionate about it. Know i was talking to someone this morning just to be out like it's critical thinking looking pasta. What you see and understanding. How do they get to this point right like how. I think. This is a lodge pot of seem to talk about. If they'd be lightly training that i had in the army where if you're going to drop ajay. Aim on someone. You've really gotta be fucking show that they deserve to have that. Jay dam dropped on them. Because it's too light once you pull the trigger on that it's going down telephone. What j. dam is a five hundred pound bomb right so you really got to sit there and think like es this the right thing to do i am one hundred percent sure that that's the guy. There's a whole massive least of checks and balances before he can go are. I'm going to do it. And i think more and more people within the social media space and looking at people content that they put out need to have a bit of a checklist that they go through proactive. Commenting right with a look at it and go bro. Like m. i. shaw. I fully understand what's happening here. Sure that what. I'm hearing him. Say make sense in the way that i you know i interpret it. Am i sure that he's using that word in the context in which i understand it. Only go through that whole checklist. Then maybe you go. Yeah okay. i've decided that's an asshole. But maybe if you go through that checklist you go. Maybe there's a misunderstanding. Or maybe i am the asshole like it's funny speaking about these both of you because there's a china that is on the other side of the world to all of us who has largely preach against the type of training that we're doing and not long ago. He came undone with a whole expose of scandal and it turned out that it was quite legitimate. So i want mentioned it was. Because i'm sure a lot of people already know what it was but i'm not gonna mention on. Hey just be in cases any legal ramifications about it but there was a side of me that wanted to get into the nuts and bolts abedin. Because i wanted to vindicate l. position on nothing. Yeah fuck you like. You slammed us for so long. You had this coming blah blah blah. But then i thought what would pet do in situation because pat is. The person who sits next to me goes dude. You really should critically think about the sort of things so my response to it in a lot of those times was did he deserve. This is a true. What's the evidence around it like. Is this a legitimate. Climb and then people started to present legitimacy to me and show me fact durant and i said well. That's very unfortunate and quite said. This has happened in our industry and this was allowed to happen. And i hope that this person is prosecuted or the law does take this seriously. So rather than. Add to it with two smarting like everybody else seems to know on social media these days i saw a setback from it and thought. Now i'm not gonna be that guy. I'm gonna i'm gonna take a more educated and a little bit of a bidder stance on it and i think he helped enough like i've heard already from every justice warrior on the internet so rather than just join the tribe and get out pitchforks and torches out and go after the monster down. It was interesting just to hear the back story on it and find out a little bit more about it. I think you mentioned before pat when there's a lot of people haven't done anything wrong. They've actually done a lot of right things. But i also think there's a lot of people who just want to really get their time in the limelight. We talked about this in the law. Show larry how people justice searching for way to get themselves recognized and sometimes criticizing and having a loud voice in the comments gets them a little bit of that attention way people will stop turning on them in the car thinking I got it. I finally got to bite and i finally got the attention because the person that i'm going after noise my nine. Now you know guys. You very rarely see me jump into any negative conversations. I used to i. Just don't do it anymore for a couple of reasons for one. I'm a lot happier not participating you know and for two nothing good really ever comes of it and the kind of people that you're talking about. They have to put out the negative content because they got they never got any attention for any of their own positive content. they have no joints. Okay so you have trainers out there. That have bashed every single decent trainer. We know right then. They bashed the whole marketing thing in the internet thing and the social media thing and then they say like in share this video throwing my nature. You fucking jerk off. How stupid you look doing that. No i mean come on what what what do you do it. What in the world are you doing. You're making a fool of yourself. You're making a fool of yourself. And i just stay away from it. I tried every person. That's come at me hard. I mean make videos about me and stuff. I've literally been willing to talk to right. I literally offered to sit down and talk to him and it never goes the way they plan or i plan because they don't want to have an on on his conversation you know. Don't tell people out. No one will come on my lives and talk to me and then when i offered. Oh no we're not gonna do it. Live will recorded. Why don't you want me to come on. The live would scare that. I'm going to say you know what i mean. I mean that's a coward. That's an absolute coward but more importantly it's a liar and if you're lying about that else are you lying about you. Know and people start to see through that and they start leaving those people little by little and their flocks get smaller and smaller and smaller. because people. aren't that stupid. They eventually start catching up on. You know what i mean. Yeah i know what you're referring to. Because i didn't say that interview and i was curious myself as to why that was recorded and not allowed to be live. Well would you. Also don't know is i heard people talking about my body language and where my eyes were now looking at the screen. You know what tell people you want to be. Honest tell p play. He couldn't see and he had a black scream. Because of the app that was being used. So i'm sitting there trying to do an interview with someone. I don't have someone to look at our talk to Okay there was no honest conversation there. Okay let me you one more little thing that. I didn't tell a lot of people. But i've shown people the same trainer. I think. Probably got his pan. He's in a bind for a while back. He sent me a facebook message. And i saved it. I screen shotted. It and also said was thank you for your wisdom sir after i put out a video telling people. Hey don't follow a fucking train or because they're popular when you know they're fry in dogs. It was something to that effect right. Well the thing is if. I'm not friends with you on facebook. I don't see those messages. So once things got ugly there. I went back to send him a message and say what the fuck the outcome on your life. What's and i saw that. For the first time it was a year old. So i think maybe some feelings hurt thinking. I was blown a month and too good to respond to them. And i say that i'll send it to you. I'll show you the screen shot. Okay that was the message and then a year later when you say well i never heard of this guy until someone sent me a video really. Who'd you send the message through. Because i got it and there's a lot of lies there that i'm going to start talking about a little bit here because i'm getting tired of the bullshit man. I'm getting tired of it. And i don't have to remain quiet anymore one month from now. I it'd be a fucking savage i ve open pandora's box incoming worry all right. I'm going to call these about this. I'll be talking about this. Let's change games. I'm going to call this episode shaking the box of wasps sh- all right. Let me change. Gears let's talk some dogs. Tell tell us what's changed in the last twelve months with you. Training does like what has been something that you've been doing with a dog. Your own dog client dog. Whatever i don't have a workshop anything that didn't go the way you planned and then you went off now. I have a new skill now. I've seen something good luck. What's shaking the boat for you. In the last twelve months the biggest change. I've made guys. That's that's been for the positive in a big way. Is we talked about it a little earlier. I think sometimes we take for granted with people understand and over the years. I've simplified things for the people. I work with so much. So it's hard for them to fail and in the past year. So i've done that to. The extreme is really backed off on. Would i ask people especially in the beginning you know. I've made it so unbelievably e-zine simple that. I think a lot of them. After the first two times we'd meet or probably thinking. I paid good money here and we're not doing much training if i had to guess. I really think they believe that. You know what. I mean. Because i keep it so simple and so basic that they can't fail they can't. It's almost impossible for them to and then as we get going then all sudden i start you know really pushing like ok guys today things change and would i have found from people that have absolutely no ability to train their own dog. You now everyday dog people that struggle and you know even the average dog owner comes at different levels of their handling skills right so even if you take the people that struggle the most what i started finding was they're really doing well like real like there's times where i show up for that third lesson and i say today we start pushing it and when i see them for the fourth whether it's two weeks later at three weeks later you know i'm going to myself holy shit. I didn't know these people were capable. You know that's part of the reason why wasn't shore. You guys wanted me on here talk. I'm a really simple simple. Basic really is basic as it gets when it comes to dog training and it's not sexy and exciting but i'm pretty hard on myself but i think the one thing that i do give myself credit for is. I really figured out a way over the past several years. Connect with the average person to really make things happen. Long-term for true long-term everlasting results. I don't give a shit about the now or the tomorrow. I mean you know when. I talked to a client that i worked with six seven eight years ago. And they're still doing well. That's what i care about these days. And that's what i'm getting. You know as far as struggling. I'm struggling with the dog right now. That anatolian shepherd. I've worked with a bunch of guardian dogs this year. That have kicked my ass really. Aw man and sometimes honest with people. Front and i tell them is. You don't understand you know. This dog isn't going to look like the german shepherd i trained on street. You have to understand this but most people really understand and and they they trust me. They know i'm not gonna lie to them and some of them have gone easier than i thought but others. It's like you dread that lesson because you have to give that dog with needs and sometimes it's so slow and so monday. It's tough but that anatolian again. I put the video up the other day would people don't realize is that dog is in a muzzle because it'll turn and attack the owner in a heartbe and the outburst. When sees a dog. Were quite scary. We can't go near the dog park anymore. We just can't so she's really done a tremendous job and at one point. I kind of vented to her a little bit to where i told her. My frustrations and i wasn't happy. I was frustrated. And i think she felt bad and she says she's doing her best. Now you don't understand. I'm not frustrated with you. I'm frustrated with me. I said because. I have not been able to give you what you need right now. On view at a level that i think you should be and that's my thoughts on very frustrated and disappointed in myself and so she kind of had a reminding me like hey. I don't think you remember how far we've come. When i'm really happy will were at here so please don't give up on us. Oh shit i'm not giving up on you. I kind of started giving up on me little bit. You know what i mean and so sometimes you just have to have an honest conversation like that with people because it can be frustrating with those dogs. Listen we could be at a dog park with that dog. Outside training from a distance and dog after dog is going by and the dogs doing beautifully. We've come so far. Just incredible no issues and then all of a sudden a certain dog or a certain person or a certain situation and the dog explodes and your back door. Your were before. You're like man. This is tops. This really really tough. Don't i haven't been online much So i haven't seen. I do remember seeing one post but tell us a little bit about what i have found really. Hod does lots okada dogs in the past. he's finding a way to reinforce them because they don't want anything you've got and i've had ones. That would starve himself days without taking food. That has don't care for it. That don't wanna play with you. No matter your best efforts like tell us about these particular dough cowie reinforcing it because all admit i have to still glen's term. We say that positive i and i like to show things using positive reinforcement that kind of thing but in the past does let that it's been straight negative reinforcement because just nothing. The fucking dog wants that. Oh i can give to it in a way. That is reinforcing like it wants to kill me. But how do we can jackpot once. But then the trainings. Tell us how you know what. I using his reinforcer on that dope. Yeah that dog. She does take food quite nicely. Now and her obedience. Our obedience is going really well. She's doing great with the obedience with some of the other ones. I'm working with now one in particular. You could probably go six days. Bow feeding her and she wouldn't take food but she's an unbelievably affectionate dog super loving dog and so everything was done just with the leash with negative reinforcement and affection. But when i say basic. I'm talking teaching the dog to walk with you. Sit he'll sit. he'll sick good job. Big rubs big ups. And i mean one day for a whole hour. That was it. You know. I had to start someplace because there is nothing. The dog couldn't walk with the dog. They know how to sit or wooden set. Dog won't take anything. And so i just had to take the dog away from the owner and spend some time alone with it and just really make that connection to where the first time that dogs asked hit the ground. I made a pretty big deal about it. I really did you know. And then it started coming quicker and quicker but that first time implementing the leash using negative reinforcement. It was it was a physical battle. You know it really was and the dog was like yet. This isn't happening. You know and i did my best just that you know very slight pressure and and keeping a consistent but literally from the slightest movement the to the ground was a win and rewarded are physically and the next time got just slightly easier and the next time. Easier and by tally back to the house. The dog was doing absolutely fantastic now. The family takes that dog everywhere. I mean they go everywhere with it. You know out in public parks. They run to the grocery store. The dog goes with it so the dog is living a really good life. But i had to find something completely different and with that dog affection was really big thing but at the same time any kind of corrections whether it be kinda just changing my attitude to where. I'm not happy with her dog. Just falls so you gotta be real careful. You know what i mean. So it's been a great lesson for me and when you think your patient and you think you take your time. These dogs will show you. You're not that dacian and you have more time. Yeah that for me has always been the killer with those lonzo. Cutting dogs is the time component. Like and you feel bad as a professional taking money from people like you know especially if they had two dogs. No staying with your. You're going to them and trying to explain that to them like these has been genetically engineered to not take food from strangers to one to develop a relationship from strangers to fight pressure to avoid being lured away from what it is the thing to god's with fighting probably thousands of years of genetic engineering and the only way that i can get through that is to develop a relationship with the dog and have the dog wants to work with me and that's nothing i can do to speed that up. You know you get a hungry little labrador and you give him a piece of cable. And he's like my best friend. Select develop a relationship real foss but with those dogs they have to. You have to genuinely have them come around to the idea of locking you before that. Praise is a reinforced. Because prior to that. I could give two shits the introverts of the dog world. Yeah man it's hard work and it's interesting that you say they once you do develop that relationship how how devastating the removal of those dogs as well and that like yeah you can give it to them as reinforcement. Bet that like. Hey i'm upset. And you've like you're not doing the right thing that can be white too much pressure and they crumble and it can be wake so while it can be hours of face time to get back to where you were you know prior to that this hobby. Yeah it's tricky. It really is for sure very rewarding. Yeah definitely you're about the story both of you going backwards and forwards on. It was years ago when i was a young trainer and always working fulltime doing board trains and private lessons in a kennel. When i used to live in melbourne victoria. And i had this daffy coming in and this was one of my nemesis dogs. I remember distinctly because nothing that i was doing was working. It just didn't work. And i just could not get through this dog and i just had a reign of probably about five or six dogs before that. That really went out beautifully. Golden retrievers labs shepherds and all of these dogs were responding well to training. And i got this staffy in was sorry broken inside neurotic that everything that i was doing. Just same debate contradicting all my understanding of training. You know reaching out to other people and signed. What am i doing wrong. What's happening. And i had the dove in for three weeks and i rang. The aren't as probably about two weeks. And i said look. I think he'd come and get the dog. I just don't think this training is going well and charge you for it so plays coming talk to me. We'll do a bit of a run through of what i've been doing. And they came and showing them what i was doing with the dog. And what we've done today and the lady was bowling. I'm thinking all fox. I'm going to get a a bike. Added there right now. Like she's going to me because she was just sobbing. Tease with squirting. If your is. I'm bracing myself tongue off because i'm thinking she's gonna say you've destroyed my dog. You've made it worse. She's going to save him so good and i'm going. What and she's going. Oh i've never seen this like a pain to other china's and he well. It wasn't because it was so below my standard that i was horrified. She thought that was good. She goes all we have to pay said. No no no. I'm not taking any money for this. 'cause i really didn't want other trying to look at these dog inside. We'll glencoe coquette. He's hands on that dog in charge for it. I was happy happy. But i was really perplexed. A bad like. I didn't go home and celebrate that and say that as a victory always still really a real heavy state of contradiction. I've read like. I just thought i can't understand how happy about it. But in the same token i was happy that we're happy about it but it really. It divided me on so many levels. I totally understand it. I've i've been there too. I think sometimes you have to understand what we are satisfied with is not always would people expect and require need but it's a good thing to hold ourselves to to a high standard. You know it. It shows that you care and you're not just there to take a check from someone and that's what i tell people when you give me a check to train your dog take it really serious and pretty much. I don't care what my program says. i'm wise This dog trainer for the life of the dog is long as you want me and ghetto. And that's that's what i tell. Everyone was long as you want me. I'm this dog trainer. I don't care if the leaves be fifteen years old because you have to be realistic and people have normal lives and they're not going to do everything they need to do forever and sometimes you have to just show up out of the blue and give people what they need just to remind them of how things can ex- light very easily you know it's an interesting comment you might before larry when you said that. It's not very sexy. And i agree with you that the harm dog training market or public dog training market isn't often insane is very sexy because we're not focused on perfection. Or you know the beautiful heels. Will they lightning fast. Drops or the quick returns to france and so forth where. It's more focused on helping normal everyday. People communicate with the dogs like finding some way to get through. Pat did a topic on how patriot on the other. Diabet- clarity and that's effectively. What we're trying to do in a way. We're trying to do that in the pet dog marketing. We're trying to develop some form of clarity that the two species can understand each other like there's a binary connection between the two of them so it isn't seen as sexy but man let me tell you they some fucking heroes in the pit dog training world. They some people have really transformative in what they have done. And i mean days everyday people that you'd never hear of they just people that go into people's harms they actually build that clarity and design that connection between the person the dog and they keep that fucking dog in the harm and to me. There's some amazing people in the sports paper cups and flacco wallet guy. Somebody connected with me and it was a good conversation. It wasn't a wasn't a negative conversation. But they said oh. You sound like you dan on the sport dogwood. I'll say not at all got nothing but admiration and respect for people in the sport dog world. I think we've especially pat has given some very good justifications of what people are doing in the genetics they preserving the benefit of what. We're doing building better and stronger. Dogs overall from the sport dog world. But not everybody's going to own those dogs. They earning the dogs like. You're talking about the anatolian stathis and like every break in between the possibly think of the pew is the mix doesn't really matter but they so overwhelmingly more popular than sport. Dogs like the pet dog. Mock it is absolutely abundant and with that abundance. Become so many problems to be. There is the velocity of all volvos dogs. there's an enormous demand for broken dogs out day and when people can actually go in and they can build that connection with the hats off to them total respect for those people. Yes i agree. It's not sexy but it's absolutely beneficial. Sure what i hope. More young trainers starts realized two is where we focus so much on the dogs and everyone talks about training the dog in front of them. Everyone knows that now in all dogs are different but they gotta start seeing the people like that. Not all people are saying. You have to work with the person in front of you. You know you have to get to know them and if you establish that relationship and get to know these people it's a world of difference because you know what they're capable of what makes them tick and when they get comfortable with you. The sky's the limit. You know i have unbelievable. Clients tremendous clients and every just about every license we do like with most of the clients. I see unless they're really in a bad situation. We have a great time. I mean we'd laugh we bust each other's balls we just you know we crack on each other and when you get people doing matt. When they're having a good time they learn better just like the dogs learn better when they're having a good time you know and i still think there's not enough emphasis or focus on the people itself and once you make that connection man it just makes life so much easier in are really does. I sent a gray. And i appreciate that. But i'll admit one of my favorite clients awards as name because of what i say. I think he might be on the spectrum right and in the first lesson we did. He said hey. I'm not interested in being your friend. I'm here to get your knowledge. That don't shoot anything and i was hugged him. Like you. all my favorite clients her and he's like so. I'm buying your time. I don't want the pleasantries. A don't know what i'm doing right i'm gonna have you fixed what i'm doing wrong. So just fucking told me that. And i was like oh my god i love you so much because it's so rare that you get to ever do then and from military background like that's how it is and the people just tell you like you fucked that up fix this. There's no like you don't have to have the coddle of like don't worry you're still doing good like a lot of the many layers pet dog dough garner's you really gotta do. They go to make them feel good. And you got to make sure that you're less important that they understand what you're saying more important. They understand how you make them feel and then pass that onto the dog and all sorts of things but honestly one of my favorite clients he said to me like just faint it to me straighten. I was like yes. That's that's that's that's awesome and that's rare but but at the same token what you said is one hundred percent true pat but you do have to be honest with people is that that's what you're you're paying that's what they're paying you four and the second someone starts telling dog owners. Would they wanna hear. That's that's just to me. That's that's thievery. You can't do that. Young gotta be honest with people you know you have to be whether it hurts or not whether it makes you uncomfortable you gotta be honest with people. You know totally another interesting thing. That happened recently. Is that i've the last couple of weeks i've just had a bit of iran of people that have contact me to do a lesson that haven't even got a dog yet like they're about to get a puppy and i've just said. Can you give me some coaching on what to do in how to get the poppy ready for some simple things that we can start doing. It's been a delight because been having some very honest conversations with them like you said larry. We're having some laughs. And we're having a bit of a chat about things because i'm rising puppy at the moment and i've being watching the on instagram and posting up videos and so forth. And he's saying you know what are the things you like can don't like and can you tell me and one listen idea was more about may telling a story about the puppy of my likes dislikes and my thoughts and where i can say this pop going and some of my reservations and so forth and like i got into you know fifty five minutes of the alison said dude. All i've done is just talk about the puppy i got. Yeah but that's what. I want it unless it. Yeah but i feel bad that i've you know like we've charged for these and because it's just may it could have listened to me. Do this on the podcast and i said no. No no. this is relevant. Because it's all the things that i want to go through at home and all the things i want to say like i basically want to try and see through your eyes on how you say. This puppy and i said well. That's this puppy. It might not be your puppy. I like i said. It's like the thai people saying thailand. Same same but different. Which has a i absolutely love. And i use it regularly. I said because your puppy they were going to be similarities. It might be lower and driver. It might be higher in dr. Oh they might be so many little nuances. That had unique to your pop that you'll go that fucking glenn's eloy you know like he said this is going to happen and that didn't happen nonetheless. It was still a very interesting and fun conversation to have that. I enjoyed every single minute of it. And let me tell you that fifty five minutes went by like it was five minutes. Felt like a five minute chat. Yeah i think a lot of people really enjoy those conversations. You know. i've had people here before where the weather gets real bad. We get a scary storm. But you know we're about to start training the dog and we're sitting in my house bullshit and for an hour hour and a half and you know and i tell him you this. Don't count towards your life in jail. And they'll say this was the best lesson yet greg because people like to have those conversations and ask questions and here your view on a lot of different things that maybe you don't get the focus on when you're working with the dog you know what i mean and i just like it just like i tell people you're going to a workshop if i go to a seminar. I haven't been to one in a long time. And i'm itching. I'm dying to go to some seminars. i don't want to bring a dog. I wanted to sit there and take everything in with every dog. that's worked and pat. You know you've done a bunch of seminars here now and upset bunch of people to your seminar some clients that when you're in the area and i asked them every single time. Hey how was it jin joy and every single person. I've talked to that goes to your seminars here in the states. They all start off with the same comment is he's really great teacher. And that's that's big excellent. That's what it's all about. Every single percy's great teacher like extremely good. That i mentioned my hair that 'cause i put a lot of work into that frankly on that's not the first thing that's pretty amazing thank you. That's what i was waiting for that. You badge i noticed mentioned my hair thanks. I appreciate it like. That's i worked pretty hard on that. That does feel good to hear that. There's people way way with dog me. But i think my skill cities passing on the knowledge that i have and i really enjoy doing it. I'm i'm the same know we haven't had. I think there's been a single seminar here in australia the that we've gone to nine so each to go to one. Yeah laci sorry itching to go to one because i missed the papal and hanging out at it and the broader unity and all that and like having access to new information like i consider myself and eternal student. I just finished. Ivan's course like he'd never stop learning he's to keep pushing forward and yet haven't talked one either so it's gonna be a may not be getting such good comments necks when i eventually do what we a little bit rusty. I think it definitely is a skill that you could get rusty on absolutely. Yeah yeah totally. Yeah there's an element to teaching think like. I use a lot of stories in quite a lot of human. I'm teaching and i think that it's like a canadian doing their act. Like you gotta hit the right notes at the right time. You know like to have people understand it like. That's what's important to me is that people don't just get the technique but they walk away going like aw. When i faced a similar problem. I'll know what to do because i don't need that same problem or i'll say the same thing and sort of remember how to put it. Put the pieces together. Hey changing gears a little bit. You said just before we started recording. And i'm saying you put it on facebook as well. They getting a puppy soon. I am. I think three dogs of your own currently right. You've had a few before so tell us about what you plan for these. Poppy and all that main plan is like. What's the trajectory of the dog. And what are you going to do. What's getting competing. But what have you learned from rising the dogs. You'll personal dogs before that you're not gonna do right because you think i. I didn't like how that turned out. And and what are you thinking with these poppy. Like what are you excited about like trying something new or do you at this point. Have you a formula so sad that you're dislike now. I know what i'm doing. This is the pa. You know pat every dog. We've ever had each one has been a little better than the last and for one starts with good genetics on getting good dogs and i usually know where i made mistakes with the last one and things that i would like to do. Different okay With mango my female mallon wa. She is a phenomenal dog. Like everything my family wanted. You know we did so much right with our. We had probably two hundred kids here. Come into the house on halloween. She's out there green everyone. She's playing with three year old toddlers running around and throwing a ball with her and playing hide and seek. I wanted a combination. I wanted her to be a combination of my old rottweiler bruno. And luca my older. Alan watt and we pretty much got her there with the puppy. That's coming the shepherd i'm getting. I definitely have some interest in getting daij. Ep with him and so i'm going to make a lot of mistakes most likely in preparing a puppy for that. Because i've never done it so each one of my dogs. They do all the exercises that they do and gp right everything if you go. Back and look at luca. He was very young and everything except for tracking when it comes to the network and the retrieving and all that stuff. I just enjoy teaching. That stuff you know but for me to put it together with a puppy in the proper way. If i don't seek out help. I know i'll fuck it up and and i don't want it. I don't wanna do that. So i just wanna try to start from the beginning and maybe i'm being overly cautious but i just want to kind of prepare the puppy in the beginning whether i compete or not. I'm going to say on going. Do and so i i wanna learn from the people in that world. That have done well for a long time and helped me not make mistakes so i have to wait for my next to be a little more successful. You know what i mean. And i'm not looking at you know i don't expect to do anything spectacular marvelous. I'd just want to give it a shot. Now that i have some more time on my hands. And if i do something. I'm going to put everything i have behind it and probably get a little excess with it and i want to do well so i need someone to guide me on things not to do. Mostly you know what i mean can ask who you have in one to go to for that info. Oh jeez you know. There's a few people that you know. I'm just huge fans evan. Respect bart's always going to be a big influence on me. Of course geno only have to say the anymore. I love the way ivan does things and i consumed his stuff ad. Nauseam i consumed dave. Cryer stuff's at nauseam. I pay my subscription is channel. And you know that guy is just. He's good at so many things east end. He's just a just a good dude. I'm big fan of tobias. Nick also i loved the way tobias teaches a really great guy. I've met bias and just a really good dude. I think wallace pain is another one by did live with him. Also you know old school shuts guy no bullshit ton of respect for him and so i figure i have a little time. I definitely see me making some road trips with this dog and paying them for their time. And and i just wanted to get better and to be honest milo wa breeder right here in town mohawk mallon. Want my buddy john. He's a best kept secret. He's a phenomenal trainer. But he's just known as someone who breeds valley wants. And i respect them a great deal. He's a great guy. Great trainer the breeder. I'm getting them for. My buddy terry has been doing it for a long long time. And i respect him a ton. And i trust him so i'm gonna be. I'm going to be a pain in the ass to a lot of people i really am. You know teach me. i'm a student. i'm a life long student. Just teach me how to how to get there. Now you effect tier people to guard to listen. If you're gonna do something why would you try to seek out the best. It makes no sense to me. You know what i mean. If you're gonna train a dog don't come to me. You know. Go to these people. I just talked about you know. I think it's funny. You say that. Oh maybe i'll do my gpa. And then i'm watching your face law out as you're talking about like all the exciting training journeys that you're gonna go as same so certain to me that you can be doing a lot of. Yeah well you know. The puppy was a surprise. I didn't plan on getting puppy. And i was doing a seminar in tucson and when i got out of the seminar that night my wife and kids and my buddy who's the breeder is facetime with me and i'm thinking is my buddy at my house with my wife hidden face facetime by accident or what's going on. It's like what so. I answer it and you know and i knew he had puppies. I've trained water dogs as a puppy. I was just fell in love. And i say we got a little retirement surprise for you. I think my wife is just scared to death with me. Having too much time trying to know that feeling saw getting a puppy. And it's so you. The possibilities are endless. Nothing has trying to certainly all been guilty of this okay. I'm teach this this this and this and this whole program. It's got to be this by this time. And i have in the past to just you know just fall in love with the dog a little bit and let them be bruce and i think that's the most important pot of training adult to pay. If you get the dog that knows nothing at two years old you can still be will champion it like that. Poppy period is not about learning behaviors. It's about developing a brain. You know that better than anyone might. And i'm excited to say the journey of it. I think it'll be good for a lot of people. Say that. And i liked the idea that you've put it out there. That day is a trajectory for that. Poppy to do i j but people will probably more than likely get to see you rasouli more. The most important part is turning it into the raw dog before it gets the raw training. Yeah i just listen. I've gotten good. Dogs my malawai or great dogs and when people give me credit essay i got you know i got really well bred dogs. It was just my job not to fuck them up. You know and i've done pretty good on that end. I good dogs to start with and so it was easy. It was absolutely easy. You know my first mallon wa. I got it the right time. I really did. That wasn't long. After i i went to see bart and so that fire was lit under me and everything was fresh. And i had this open canvas and you know it was just. I was obsessed just obsessed with doing things and so. I'm looking forward starting over big time i really am. There'll be plenty of people that wanna see me fail. And that's okay if i do pet dog guy and i'm okay with failing i really am but i love having a goal to do something you know what i mean. I think having your own dog trying like that is what keeps the far alive for pet dog training. It means that you can do the mundane boring staff over and over and over and over and taste to walk on the loose latian. Seton stay on the place that all day every day but you know like with my own dog. I've got some exciting shit going on on. I'm making and i'm still learning myself. You know how you get to start again like it's a blank slate that there's no riding on it like your developing the plan from the get-go i'm excited. I really am absolutely. I might thanks so much for making the time to come on. And sorry that i opened up pandora's box therefore you just sort of he how you handle it so well and who knows what's going to happen a month from when you're out of the service sustained on that space that's about the most you'll ever hear me speak of it and i won't talk about it and more you know but but sometimes it gets old and listen guys. I wasn't getting when i made that boasts yesterday. You guys do a tremendous job. You're such a gift to this industry. I'm so glad. I got to meet in person at the conference and i pray we get to do it again in san diego. I really do you know. I think what you're doing is phenomenal. You're a phenomenal team. The two of you and please don't ever stop because we need it. We absolutely need it. Thanks matt appreciate that. Let me turn that circle jerk back at you and say that i really appreciate the stuff you put out to and i think there's probably you could probably tell me the numbers there would be hundreds of thousands of millions of people. You've never met that you've helped solve dog just by the content you put out so much out there and they got this issue with my dog is video of you explaining how to fix it. And i think you've probably helped thousands and thousands of people you've never met and never heard side. Yeah congratulations to you might really appreciate and there's another compliment. I would like to pay to which is twofold one that you're very real guy like you keep it real. You're very genuine person. And one of the things i really genuinely love about you. Is that your genuine affection and price to people in the industry. Like i always say you talking to people and your enthusiasm and you conversations you have and how supportive you are of those people to larry like people that have never really had a break in the industry and haven't had to go yet and people have never heard of them like you shared them to the industry and just your enthusiasm and you passionate is always appreciated. Like i've watched a lot of. He lives just interviews with people. And you know why you wrap it up and talk to people. It's awesome weld on night. Thank you appreciate guys very much. Love the hell out of both the man right. I'm gonna stick. hang on. Hang on. Hang up i can never look at you straight again in the face like we're doing now. I don't know if you noticed but i've always been periodically smirking because cape thinking of that really don't have filmed where you're panicking the paints a. She didn't yourself as an adult cherries. There's been more graphic ones recently. That will avoid my. You cannot understand the man of joy and how many really solid belly laughs. I've had from watching that video for game and just the panic. Look on your face to try and find some way over. The public toilet happens a lot. That's it for another set of the cato paradigm as always if you luckily he plays like rideshare subscribed do that through whatever subscription service. You download is from bay specific. Tell us about how. Larry saved the show. Give us a lot. Give him alike drawn. Support the show. The do that is patriot on three bucks a month. Get you extra content in there but of course you can pay whatever you like. You could buy us a crucial if that was in new budget. Not otherwise pulled. The shows tasting jumping today. And get yourself some cool merch. You can rep the canine paradigm. We've got some cool designs. Thanks to every and zoe wife my wife yes cool designs and then people can get and if you want to get in contact with us the best way to do that if you want doug training info best buy days two groups that in our facebook group is lotta good feedback you can get from nail. You can search in their if you've got questions that have already been answered so that's the compared paradigm discussion group on facebook. But if you have questions for main glenn or if you've recently written a intensely annoying song and you wanna come on the podcast joklik which we are going to ignore that email and save he goes the hassle will play for you. Afterwards you could shoot us. An email info at the canine paradigm dot com. That's it thanks larry.

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Episode 85: Interviewing Greg Tonkins

The Canine Paradigm

1:19:09 hr | 1 year ago

Episode 85: Interviewing Greg Tonkins

"What's happening in the canine industry? For all the latest news views and expert opinions stay right here for the Canine Paradigm. You'll hear from industry leaders experts Doyennes of the industry learned my colleagues movers and shakers and the odd randy guest get the latest insights and expert advice from both here and abroad from the people in the know now here your hosts Glenn Cook and Pat Steward. I'm lofty Fulton and I'm Outta here. Hey Glen yes some imaginings haven't gone tell me a found Jason Firmin's fine number no way we should ring him and safe. We should BOSSOM Dogo equipment of we've got to put these tourists once and for all the so many people harass me baddies website and you're wayside yeah. Let's bring new CD on your monarch. Hang on drinking makes ally Hi Jason We ask Patricia. I'm bringing to try and blossom Doug Equipment of you. What do you want to know some tug some leashes? Some some of that kind of stuff can do that over the phone okay. Let's let's get down to the nitty gritty in the business he have you got a website or not. Because what didn't want to tell you bug is about your immediate. Tell us what is your website it in W._W._W.. Dot on Dot Com and then W. C._B._S.. Dot Com you headed. Hey folks on Zwick Doug Quip Dot com where you can buy on training equipment head over there right now. Put yourself some togs leashes. What else do you sow Jason plenty any of higest products Dogville equipment or for mill anything any normal dog? I WOULD WANNA zone. That's IT Glenn. Are you still above fade boy. Welcome back to the Ken Paradigm. I'm your host pets Jewett. I'm joined in studio today by my co-host Glenn Kook and we have someone else who this today it was it well a while ago I wanNA talk about hunting and I said to how close personal Katrina hot will you come on and talk about hunting and she said no. You need to talk to Greg Tonkin's and so joining us in studio. Today is talks talks great jumping. We've been wanting to come in here and you <hes> threatening us the Iguana. We're GONNA need the fenton button to come on the shy hopefully not only gonNA try and May Professional Ak so we've been back and forth for a little while but we're finally sitting he you tell us why he tell us about. You'll history in dogs. Yes in debate. Why does Katrina hot wheel my favorite person in the world so that we should talk to you? Quyen talk to you about pigs and domain coin yesterday and a hot well. That's a style the beginning yeah well when I was a little kid born into family. We had a border Collie when I was one that was a was Jack Ruin and bushy news younger grew up in Newcastle and grow with is Awesome Border Collie <hes> we'd go in must <hes> <hes> encounter with her on on weekends just out of Mucosal Maitland and she was also shadow so she had a title Strand toilet toll right eye months old and yeah grew up with shows my best night unfortunately loss died fifteen and about three months later. We'll misty this border collie as well so crappy Tom Mum <hes> into H._i.. Birds and other birds and <hes> showed canaries and the dog and Agrout Rainier Wall off pock I- Newcastle so wanting their art fifteen few months before dodd and did work experience and basically the ranger and there was instantly lock. My older brother took me under his wing and hung out in there or a couple of years volunteering and then soon schooled finished on one of the job working the animals so ended up working on an off in that apply says an apprentice go to hold a couch certificate on him about because you had to be in the in the council to get a job they did that for a bunch of years foss forward. Maybe ten years getting a job. There wasn't really GonNa Happen and Ottawa's loved the Bush <hes> so the family and I picked up we went to w with the Wasp Blessing Alaba their engine had actually moved out to double a couple years prior. We visited him and love the place and yeah away we went so a started working at a captive animal institution out they <hes> that was about knowing usually guy actually got into the dog saw things the wife and I well when we were boyfriend and girlfriend friends who was working at a veterinary clinic and someone boarding this little puppy that I had to bicycle surrender was young girl at this poppy parents permission took it hyman the parents no you're not having not and giving it to the Vet Stefan harmful and so uh-huh comes this little boy lower makes puppy taught fate biggies gripe personality and why we with him just as a pet dog <hes> an Aubain don't shooting for ferro pest management at the time and <hes> anyway incomes <hes> incomes Alani into a law as a pet dog and I was at shooting with the might out West for weekend hang on Greg sorry wouldn't be ran that the nineteen eighties would it no ninety ninety s early two thousand two dozen to just wondering because ran the like the late eighties nineties every single rottweiler any dog that looked like it was a stocky short. Nick Dog was called on the funny honey Johny back then I did the whole thing of name after on Schwarzenegger I wake Saudi had fate lock a horse yeah. He's nine was cut us. Apparently I'm S- like that I let's go to go. He's GonNa turn into not Curtis need something tough yeah so yeah I'm at shooting for the weekend in and his checkers air and he's okay my you WanNa come Farrand of dog and <hes> unfortunately unfortunately pig-hunting has a a bad pit of a bad rap in society Nevada image and economic <hes> you know as he is the dog trying and he's might come made him. You know he's a family pet. He just has a job so met him and we went out and we pigs plant well. This is is really cool. He's an awesome dog very well behind very social <hes> very well mannered and all these go at home. WHO's about ten months old looks very similar and I'm like maybe he'd like to do this so anyway I took him out and Lo and behold he's like yeah? I know this is tried and this is what I was born today. Exactly and I'm like well okay. This is cool and it Kinda just to go from there he still to this day. He told me a little lessons he was my first big dog and actually I used to still in Newcastle time and I used to exercising down these Piney club where Ron Ron laps with him and getting fit and another modest outer fellow down there and he had three or four dogs as well and he'd run them in some ways we across pas and we got token one die in introduced himself in Chattanooga and that and just one of them things that happens in the world that he actually new Modi Renews Young Boy. This is crazy so lucky lucky strike again. He kind of took boundaries wing took me out chide me why to do things unfortunately like any walk of Loft doesn't matter what you look at is good and bad in or doesn't matter any profession anything interested in any hobby any industry is good and bad side as unfortunately guys are that sighing and generally the bad ones unnoticed more side and the good ones 'cause. That's like any industry really isn't it. I've said this on the show more terms I think can count on my fingers and towers that if you guys looking for ugly you'll find it in everything and that's what sells pipe isn't it excites people at creates arousal. That's why media go sniffing out shitty stories in public because they know that it takes interest people wanNA look at it. They get excited bad. It and everybody loves to try and find a villain and I have a public execution for him. Pets family has been going through something we lead to talk about these yeah. It's just classic Zeke media <hes> representing and what it was race and put it the on facebook. It's public is my family owns a hell stole yes so it's called let us deliver it's organic fruit and vegetables and they were selling stuff called Cleopatra's Baath milk which is it's raw milk unpasteurized milk and sell it as a bath wash naven was selling it with the poison label on it lying long story short that will find for doing the law change and they couldn't do it and they would have been out of foreign corden chose not to just <hes> because my sister was unwell and didn't do it and then just the other day. There's a report in the Telegraph and just the way it was wooded. It was just poorly written but it said that they had pets and <hes> it said that there was always things that were wrong when they weren't they just got these fine and they title and it was because that was selling a product that wasn't allowed to be sold reunite like. Can you believe that like selling rule. Milk is like four animal disease up but anyway so yeah I it's just classic media debate up and I mean they've now it's it's in the public arts beginning and it looked to be honest the truth these lock wide voice to my sister was just get ahead of it. Yeah share the article explain exactly what happened till everyone. This is exactly what we did unapologetic for it and that journalists should they have to retract an apologize yeah and do a better fucking job next time lie your professional rod. I you put words together professionally do it in a way that conveys the story accurately because it was just laziness and it was just the way that the the sentence was structured that talking about someone else but they had mentioned in the same paragraph and so it read as though it was the same thing well. This is exactly why L. Close personal friend Donald Trump okay all right. We've just law trump's it yeah but I'll trumpy. He constantly calls at the media fake like news. It would be better if aid in your so much content delayed repeated do that but anyway that's another. Let's go down that <hes> sorry sorry trump on pigs. Yeah I would bet a million dollars. He has at some point better. Don't let us know <hes> shooters message on face INFO AT THE KENNEL HAIR DOT com so back to dogs. Yes there are fuck quits every way. Certainly there's fuck quits in every category you can think of that. PIG hunting is no different and I think that assigned Dan is that people who are doing a great job of it. You probably never even know you probably down the pock doc you probably at the dog park with a peak hunting dog and you have no idea because he's so biologically fulfilled. He's one of the best dogs in the park and then as soon as something attack something or someone it's automatically pedo yet and and so that's an interesting term right pig. What does that mean so some people classes braid? They'll say it's a big doggedness well now. Pig is essentially any dog that will catch big <hes> so let let's talk about that in braids because I have a done some contract shooting in the past myself and I've never had dogs of my own that have been with other people their dogs and I've seen everything from blabs like you say to whip it's working peaks and we've it's actually Osa processing common that is saying lots of people with we've it's that are usually <hes> <hes> like an enviable Arab tap is usually allow speaking generally just can you explain those terms realized that probably means nothing to let the time lug is given to what you would call holding dog because it you know in can say more inverted commas lugs the pig and the pigs logs there is side. The dog will send sent the pig generally. Don't you're walking on the ground or they're on on a vehicle like a buggy or quarter you now winston pig. They'll Jon Trickett Fonda. Catch it. Stop It. <hes> hold implies few to come in and dispatch it abaya will do the exact same thing yet thou work similar to shape they'll run round only put on the bought it will sit down and stop generally backup to log or Rocco something and I'll just put a bit of pressure on it to cave there but hopefully not much outbreaks and then Europe and you can call the dogs off shoot it or sending the heavy hitter mention rotten a lug hull. That's an old colloquial term that was used beckoned seventies nineties by your old man he said behind by yourself. I'll give you a clip in the Lug. Hope so on that. That's not something you'd trying dog right like you. Don't say I am raising you to be Alaga. <hes> or I'm late rising by it's really about the courage of the Duggan where that he wants to engage in that it can be individual doug trite but some all you braid traits comply pot so generally you dogs at a fair bit of whipper whip it Kelpie border collie working dogs in them a tend to be by Liz and then you log is a condom view you bull mix braise occupied massive dines. You boxer crosses anything with Blueblood in it in a bail lago bought. There's no rule of saying one of ever heard of was an outing the shape doug actually would catch like log up paint on on a few hunts way rotties of taking pigs lugs. Have you ever seen a ballot transitioning meaning to become a Lotta time. I'll get one right now. <hes> he's a just a station bread coli and he's he's dog. He'll buy a pig but as soon as a lago gets a he'll actually dove and grabbed alary plainly which and he's going to know what he's doing and be careful generally speaking they a lot on their fate and they they inverted comes in dance with big <hes> and really Sorta I saw as it up there smart dog that kind of Ni- all I can can handle <hes> whereas the mate eight heads the holidays bicycle. I have no much self-preservation. Lucky your mouth and your roadways engaging body as a chance to get up. That's what the bread for yeah. This is why you wear protective ELEC- thick colors and harnesses to prevent strike from <hes> desks he's just plights might out of a selection materials net is getting more and more advance it used to be leather and firehose. Nowadays things like ballistic material like a Kevlar on angry lot. Let's say beltway is very common very lot a dozen hold water N- and Maden and get y down <hes> you've got the wide net colas cause some of the small dogs you WanNa predictive models in this right but you don't want the hindrance of big heavy chestnut and everyone nowadays ad is runs <hes> G._p._S. tracking goals very affordable. Now you can get a hand pace in a couple of colors thousand bucks and you essentially what you don't WanNa screen work then the best thing of you can sit watch him work ascend and Ni- exactly to the Mater Cha from you with the consent white whether you can go to get going off to them because travel one to two kilometers of the to fund big some dogs of do stupid things like I seven tonight Columba's things Cata Hulas and some of the Bile Iowa but that's so something maybe we should explain because most valley is not in Australia disciple away pigs of all coins in Australia <hes> invasive species in Australia Hod like hooved animals that there's no nineties that have who's and so just paper away pigs feral and decimate land of farmland and also pigs anything you're like literally in any they have a very similar taking cannibalize each other as well yeah <hes> so they'll tear up that is huge issues of erosion. What else am I missing? They they route up trays route up vegetation. Yeah they destroy destroy crops so they quick history lesson. They go to you on the the second flavor fest flight apparently all the ones dot up but the second play they go to here and just went knots from there on possible to now estimated twenty five million <hes> in Australia at Annetta estimate that but there's a a lot of pigs and to put that in perspective non-australians. There's only thirty million Australians right yeah so I think that's something you have population like that is maybe not even but yeah so that that pig twenty five million however they asked my dad is a fucking Lord of P._M.. Causing causing cottage in a in a in a country not accustomed to having who've downs and our massive respectful them obsolete more of them like most Ferrell's you look at Fox absolute prime killing machine smart as but I'm blown he an killer Nicholas Nevada ninety some facts on the pigs I I can have to Lizzy just isis. I think just on the four months that can celebrating anywhere from eight months foods and for our listeners the the threatening process for about eighteen indicted spacey's side up north they impact on cassowaries. I will actually dig up Saito Ness Thou white for the site by titles to hatch and just pick him off like little running biscuits long on beach. He's not GonNa hold my reaction to that. Biscuits dog is a chance and they seem a super smart and the eight the eggs of the cassowaries right and now a like you say that route up the waterways so they destroy and fell up the water all you said eight anything especially in Dame's on properties and so forth fell up the water in there and you have to paint the pitcher for everybody listening pigs <hes> an extremely damaging to native wildlife farming land and just erosion of the landscape because we're not used to animals that to put a money factor on it for Astrid Agriculture. I estimate one hundred million dollars a year how from pigs and that's crop damage mainly but I get into things like you say grindstone and Celsius bags. I just run long run the tussle on I put it all up. All the agriculture is about one hundred million to the economy. That's amazing right. I I mean I did some shooting wants to go. I told me he accounts for a twenty percent loss to pigs and it was a cotton farm. He's like that like he counts on that. That's a minimum yeah that he that's amazing to think. I'm you know lose twenty percent of what <hes> what I'm putting in just a pigs when I land predations and other one or Dan us <hes> but it depends on some foam is at wine actually farm set and tops cups anymore like I love chick pays and I love Sorghum and actually walked through wait. It's Bali cotton to get to the good ones right to the poor bug is worth the mice money so pay delicacy enticed and the poor farmers of two got anymore. Yeah conquer that yeah. Five so to paint the peach edge was everybody that's terrible assholes killing pigs well it it. It's something that really needs to be done. Do you have any stats on pig biting and that kind of thing and now I'm personally like bites. That's that's fair. Every anti hunter is ten I._D.. And stuff it's terrible in a main the suffering that they actually go through when they ingest these poisons and the impacted actually has on non invasive species says well even domestic pets they've gone for walk through cram land or anything like that and I happened to pick up a bite while they're in trouble too yeah now even add might sue dog speak to bite up and jump on the vomited and the other dogs evading the vulnerability as well and it's it's just an out of Saudi Amman Aban unfortunate enough to say <hes> a video of dog don't have to ninety and the most horrific thing ever saying anyone who says you just by. It's much more ethical inhumane than catching them shooting them might it's since Shiva Bond Morton's poor dog and Danley Comfort. I think I can get from it is that that was still alive but they brian my would look at the dog that did not what was going on neurotic. The lots Rome time horrendous yes so the issue with bites is that it's an indiscriminate Killa you get the ninety while off today that you get the pets the whatever anything that eight said he's he's doing and dying a horrific death is they do so. I just wanted to just sort of paint the scene in the strike for a lot of people people try that listen but also try wouldn't know this stuff roddy if your dog training enthusiast and you're in the city you probably not aware of the the problem of these invasive species <hes> and then there's the issue they consume a lot of farming stuff but but then pigs are very far quits yeah yeah yeah and they move around a lot. This is where the dogs coming so I've always said when you hunting pigs if you not doing it with dogs you have two options you can move around a lot because they move around into law and hopefully at some point across pas or you can set up a hard and hopefully at some point they cross Yo path because they move all the time they had to track the fos moving. There are difficult thing to hunt without dog. I was watching this video from America where I was sitting up black these traps for them and you know basically just looks like concrete Rayo that's built into a whore shape but they had auto gates on them so they could part off in the distance but the pigs get so clever that they realize it's a trap so so they'll send some of them in will others white outside and then once they're out the other ones will go back in and they will pick it off periodically instead of getting the whole mobbing the white and they'll you know like three Oh go in and they'll be twelve sitting outside and in Israel come out in four go back in and what they actually had to do was they had to disguise it completely and wrapping foliage so the head to put plant material all around it and make it look so not naught manmade to exit the pigs and even then they had to basically let's say for example it was fifteen pigs entitled they managed to get twelve in there at once and I had to banged the guy down on that and let the other three skype after that and pick him off in the pedic and it was just amazing how how intelligent they were actually were and how the how well they were. This was a trap but you know the lure of the bite by putting their I think it was sweet corn or something like that was just just absolutely amazing. Jay this the farmers went through when that walking through and saying showing damage to all the fencing and the property and with our rotting against trays and ripping up the Bach and everything that was just amazing like in the guy said all of this is from pigs and it was like five minutes of different scenarios. There's an older damage they did is just incredible and you just you wouldn't think that one spacey's would create such widespread carnage yeah so so I'm glad we've pointed painted that just to put some people's minds and as because you know there's always GonNa be the you horrible you kill Oh babe but this is a necessary thing that has to happen is an you know every joy I can loft but it's for good for the knives tonight flora and fauna and lace. I highly adaptable animal that isn't vibe. They sings in the back in that movie but they somewhere in the middle and you know though her they'll they'll kill you as being people killed but while pigs in I might not mistake <hes> extremely clever and then we'd go natural selection apply <hes> the fastest and the quickest nabisco braid librade fostering quicker and be your babies there was video on nitrous medal which is a instagram side. The pet got me onto actually show today. We say he'd say she. It's all that one. They've got this photo of this guy who's horn has grown around into his own head and killed him and the quote is amazing. It's the best I would have bought the Teixeira but it doesn't have that on the the quote they had was <hes> somehow. What's the fucking? Would it's like the irony of I asked the devil horns that would kill the strongest goat and unbeknownst to me it was it was cool quite a bit. It's not on the taste yet anyway sorry but two story but on the on the on one of the videos it was a look like go in India Pakistan or someone like that but these guys are on building site standing deigning on top of the building while they might had obviously been knocked off a bike and was being also the other day any like he's trying to hit it with like a rod while this pig is just constantly goring him in the legs and body and fortunately for him dog managed and each to come in and the day jumped on its back and bid it in the back and thirty he's might justinian walking throwing logs on top of the pig hitting him as well so you know he's getting smashed by pig Andy's of might standing on front of trying to help him but Tom eventually the only thing that succumbed to the attack of the pig was the dog chasing it off yeah and what kind of fortunate he that we don't have the your sign as a European bore Russian booze in America in Russia. Obviously that grow to ridiculous is enormous tasks and I just attitude lock. Nothing lucky I go as he goes here bad enough. I mean you can get them up. Over the two hundred Kale I mock around you know the top end and the kind failed dom but Dan around New South Wales you'll still get one hundred Kelly pigs but we generally at the really foucault we call them. Bruce Lee pigs a united sixty seventy KAYLA's lauding fast toughest Niles isn't an incredible how foss move lock it shocked may the first Chris Thomas olawald pigs on the Dash <hes> the ground that they can cover in such short time was incredible. Look a look like a bulky chater on the run. It was just amazing to say the land speed that they could pick up and you put you put like where Gua Pricey basically performance bread animal after them on the flat and it just gives you an indication of how quick like pool electronic I've exaggerate things but I'll get some dogs at fifty kyw's pretty comfortably at a sprint beside you buggy and you say that I'm up a pig and then he just watched and I let him get Clemson and I just hit the afterburners and just blood. That's it that's a good description. That's what looks like the hitting Audrius and just took off and then the dogs go better insurance other on them down but it's just happening to say it. Quick <hes> smart people what to do what we call by the dogs he'll he'll guy slow and then they want they blow the dogs off. Okay yeah that's Ziege Zag and I I a cue me. Take your night and I'll go into abortion to figure out it's the other side and inexperienced somewhere. He's any somewhere they intentionally to throw the dogs off laugh and that's an amazing and you you get a an older dog and he's played his before and he fires and he's under the luxury Megan whereas he smelling somewhere so tell us about that. Let me just set you up a little bit. I WanNa talk about the process of training a dog to become a big about what but I also would like to frame at around that this is something that's been happening in the pig-hunting community for forever and you say second flights since probably still dogs on that second fleet as well we've been since then and now the country's for all millennia but what your nine darn fool because I did some research into a is sort of bringing a modern twist to a lot of traditional training yeah so working with the elephants was known using all star that that China's Mahal way of thinking with dogs we gotta get back to that too because I want to talk talk about dogs a lot on this podcast obviously the dog training and behavior podcast but I do WanNa talk about your role in training Pecadillos us <hes> present and yeah met some really cool pay along the way <hes> did a training conference. Probably I think it was two thousand thirteen and met Rohan tight work <hes> zoo in Sydney at that stage and met them at the conference and saw some demise with Springer Spaniels. Don't conservation work and I'm calling this is cool watching those dogs stop on whistles goals and findings and anyway and go to nine most of <hes> from those bugs and then went. Maybe I can still deppish to pig dogs for myself. Pay People Are GonNa Laugh at me but hey he says yeah. I'm GONNA take a bit of a Morton while sorry more than for us approach to what you guys have been doing. The send detection world for decades and go try and imprinting a big sent to to the dogs <hes> and some Bisi just by seek professional training methods Trade Patch cliquot and why we and yen was very fortunate to made some other really co- payable mentioned before mock burling and the Dogfather dogfather Daniel and in my travels Doug Tomato with some lovely paypal Code Xilin Crag Bouillon add a bullet swell nine circus family from many many many generations and Xilin cry doolittle fillmore now like the did the red dog movie and <hes> Warhorse Respell Bug Reagan racing stripes and a bunch of others and Zeiler things. We won Diane guys. Hey wouldn't happen to have a dog that does this this con- innate a tough dog for film so actually I do. I do have adult that box on command why we go so anyway two dogs. We've done a to a film sort of movies and T._v.. Shows and to learn a lot of that stuff and then the papal onset in the actors made them and get talking. This is a big. It's a what chilly it's not. It's too nice enrollment in does tricks none yes. This is the second job he's real. Drove is the Bush so yeah so took this little bit of world got given to me by these professional pay fluent this stuff's awesome and just change more whole philosophy and training dogs basically a not and end on facebook and social media as it is everything garage and there's pie just for these charges for that and how industry or you know peak huntings culture and an industry. It's not a sport very easy for people to bloodsport Portland Snow Sport. We don't know if this poor job and has a necessity in Liga sites industry and culture and otherwise asking advice look any training pages doesn't matter what you don't agility boards board though sports all that stuff paper won't help nope and I started offering advice and people laugh at U._S._C. Menus traits in a click it he dug to jump on each drag it up. There doesn't <hes> Nah I'll stick tomorrow. I thanks mine over the few paypal voice study in a few questions for you in boxes you pay had already this message iskoe and and <hes> and yet sort of go to the point where thought maybe I can make a difference and do something with it on the movie stuff certainly helped because Oh sang people's by safely the the image of a pig don't change before there is from this fire-breathing Charlie aiding antisocial thing to this he cuddles me and sits on the couch the so <hes> yeah why we went on my the Little Piji lovely lovely wife came out with blue collar canines for us because they look go to be a white collar very technical person. I'm a bushy in a blessing go. I and I kinda just I fun trying and dogs but it has to be a little bit professional and instead the pig dogs for wally. We call them invasive of stock detection. I like it came up with something just unfortunately to set you apart from from those frowned upon just forbid and you know I still like to Sinai Hi. This is a big dog and this is what we do bought. When you're dealing with Tony little professional there was some sort of government people some Lodhran private femmes aid? Would you like helping this because it is hard to get access to properties now because of that monarchy and an image but yeah when I say you dogs truck and chocolate they can do and they're not gonNA run around and chew everything in fought dogs in the farmers Gordon <hes> well mounted and type Monkey Malmo son a little girl sometimes comes my fellow Princess Gola Ashby continent a princess dress but <hes> she's about seven. Now says she doesn't come as much anymore. She's into the early stuff motorboats ten and he's been coming with museum to his nappies so you're not gonNA take a dugout. That's going to potentially how mccade obviously he's the thing made a main before the will became so obsessed and insane about labelling and creating the stigma around these top dogs this was a family dog that set in the living room with children and rolled around on the ground with Him Dad would go out on the weekends and hunt with the dog and he'd gone catch him rabbits all pigs D. or whatever and that would be the dog that would be going hunting and then coming back in aiding that stupid with the family <hes> on on the rug will roll ran with the children hundreds fat for I guess from the nineties onwards we've we've somewhat becoming sign about this topic thinking and I people are constantly thinking that these dogs a brutal murderers. I mean recently these Bena an unfortunately there's been a case where go I got torn up pretty bad and subsequently died and he's wife was hospitalized by I believe it's a bull break off if dog but again the media jumped all over it as they do. It's one of these things that we talked about before the sense the sensationalism in the meteor jumping alive right but the reality is way talking about an individual. We're talking about a rogue or maverick dog. That's gone wrong. They Brian is is corrupted is what society has to get around the context. Yes there are a lot of bull braids have gone wrong at the but there's a sheet Lord Bob Rates United There's such a popular braid of dogs as an enormous a man of them and if you put that in perspective with other braids of dogs is a lot of other powerful breeds dogs which are problems as well. I mean there's problem dogs that aren't powerful braids of dogs that abiding children and causing my him as well but the reality is that something wrong with that dog and there's plenty of people who <hes> jailed for grievous bodily only harm on people who are just Morell don't think well and again. That's something wrong with that person so it was actually nice to say somebody jumping on the media the other day ability the lady motivate Jackie someone I._V.. The Ashtray embittering association she did that's actually wanted the best media. Absolutely what would you call that appearances yeah I've ever seen the way she handed all that especially on the project with biting her so hot awkward he the producers he may be paces like telling them to push get the soundbite get at a site of the thing that we will not at all but she was so good. I mean congratulations to wish I remember who las Jackie something on the but fucking amazing join my job like but you're right. I think that was the best of saying you've seen a lot of people do it because it always comes up every time and she kept it cool and she didn't result to blaming all NYMAN Shaima braid or anything like that in fact. I believe that she said look the the statistics show that anymore. You know that's that's yesterday's news and it's wrong and that's the thing that people assigned thing with the stigma of pig dogs. A pig dog can be any type of braid. Tell US talks about stock pershing because that's an interesting thing. I think a lot of people done nine well. I mean like this quickly on the the dog dog to the justice cattle shape. I'm Dave and the general top dog like he was saying. The stigma like people will say hots. It's cruel and you might the dogs hunting. Obviously I'll end from this podcast. It Cost Manja five at times biology fulfillment just use to sign. It was an outlet to people again. This dog needs an outlet in I would article cruel is probably an I want to pick a number of maybe seventy percent of pet dogs that I walked everyday. Yeah it'd just in the backyard. <hes> had the doctor Shit exactly China's and then Adoga out in with this autumn on two sons forty trying to us away united got straight. Whatever on the back of the picnic is from school there on the farm? We got wanting to an awful lot awesome well ran the dogs and these poor people's might more pet dogs lives the best live and I look after him in love him and yet it's either white with diabetes but <hes> yeah so the whole the whole process I mean instinct and Genetics Plaza Hugh drawl <hes> these dogs being Bradford for his generation generation generations hundreds of years thousands of years. I need to do it ball. It's come from the wild and Spain selectively bred for your but I mean the thing is for us as we keep trying to bring it out of the dogs and Pohjola yeah the problem of biological film and he's the issue for everything when you look at how many people to not even relate to pick dogs how many people get Mallon Woz without an intention of love doing bought board or put it to work. I say all the time people say to me like they call me a Malanois. I'm like no. I'm that's the sport I play. That's the dog. That's the best added so that's why have that dog yeah. If I was just doing say an Casey obedience I'd have a fucking border collie because that is probably the most Ceuta dog to it. It's bet fulfillment it's about the dog and all that you speak about the big stuff by on the reason why Mallon Mars so fucking social and so happy in his own skin sense because he gets to do Butler every week he gets to him and he is the happiest my social dog because he's in the road hands like I I have that Oh if you put that if that dog has so much capacity to be so fucking fucking dangerous by just doing nothing not doing things that would make him dangerous by just doing nothing would make that dog so fucking dangerous to be around and it's the same we the dogs built to hunt by not letting them on that's the problem it doesn't mean more shouldn't cy five dogs time now and they can't he wouldn't tell them that although collectibles yeah and it gives even if they do understand it gives the other something I mean for wall caught up in the inverted commas rescuing of dogs dogs at the Pan or say on dubbed Boston swap Moscow today needs to be put down and get all the thing was to go hunt pigs and dogs on software die wine at that level at. I think that should have been training was sigh of sort of. Burn out from that and just scaling back and look enough to mind forbid but <hes> that's why I'm a little workshops come in which we can get bit so hang on Wednesday so you're getting dogs out of the Pan putting them on pigs and then giving them away selling the move on to selling them yeah I certainly wouldn't or Mike Prophet even cover mind Tom by I'd get them out. The Pan and just put man is abating spicy abeyance into them. Get them working get him stock breath and then they're off to a time. I wouldn't just hey who wants to be dog. It'd be moines boxes full of a list of people. Hey Dude. When you go to try? That's right yeah. People harassing you nine for that Yep and unfortunately does not the droughts knocked the P. numbers around where I live which is great great for the farmers by then. I've gotta find otherwise ticket my dog stimulated trouble for the catch pigs and that's why that whole trainings thing comes into it yet <hes> an even just mentally drying them with semi abeyance is great and <hes> models Iran four or five guys everyday Reinhard Sean <hes> and I get some training down in late to play together a night as like six miles and someday six pitches and stuff like that and I o from Little Jack Russells Jack Russell Troy is at my kids have up to the because and yeah mark my favorite go i Max he's he sleeps on next to bet on the couch and that's a far breathing tolerating pig dog basically and he's a really Special Ambassador Dog Fan Dad at about Eddie months of ideals good or hard jump just at a pig competition weekend that I I haven't I rise money for the communities that a jump down. I'm like he's speaking. Ijaw will say oh he is and he wanted guy. He's good at this. Let's do a little bit of training young and got another show anyone that when another show and he will not and what is pretty good did a bit of research and try and record was and he just went yeah I can do that and and then he actually the hijab. Just I don't know like I've seen videos of doing that. It's basically lock. You would imagine the palace side in N._B._K.. Omondi Oda that's like a coal yeah. WHOA climb like you imagine in Jesse but there's nothing to grab again over it and ramp on the other decisively is alleged on the other side or a bunch of hey byles down so you know somebody would go you might them jump of course Jon Benet's going to bug joint nothing? I have a real bugbear bat. I think we're fucking apologizing the wrong people fought fought too often say fuck may to climb going after something jumping that because I locked to fucking jump taught them to jump at all yeah I mean I just deployed some super by seek principles and you know hey dude you. WanNa jump out of this Jadu okay. We'll cool. Thanks for doing that. I'm GonNa give you Zimbabwe Chicken. What I`Ma jump that one two and you drop another board a jump that one and and yeah I mean there's GonNa be a method to it? Some some of the of saying yeah people have the dog touting it back and it's all revved up and they someone off the wall. Come on come on an adult get tired of the bowl great what happens when the dough doesn't make Splat won't play anymore so what my preferred method was packed the dog and a sits die with three hundred screaming pay we'll behind them and cheering and twelve fifteen the dogs walked to the wall getting position up and then if the dog does file on that a catching up and he appreciated that being I'm forty to kill a dog and very rarely files but <hes> but yeah he figured that he was good at it and he ended up killing it and lost Augustine. Penitentiary Detroit is twenty five so it's Sorta how took out the Australian record for that and he son sounds good. He's done on forty two point seven. That's pretty damn good yeah. He's a thirty I'd kill a little bit small but it just gives me opportunity gotta they shy and there's always dogs common it up and carrying on and these to to be big dogs alliance with my kids on the basket and belly rob's and the boys dumb to Work John Thanks Dad chicken lie down again <hes> and it's a great sport for any Doug to get into because the exercising and blown off steam and yet and not something all the time at all because you do it every diet can obviously this is value <hes> just sorta gave him fit on him up and down hills bust out the jump every few weeks whenever crack Geico caves him also memory gone and yet something good good for him. When you know hunting yeah he's my favorite and yeah the others have to live up to but he's he's one of those? We'll have that once in a lifetime dog and yet he's GonNa it may just always been a natural in so easy to trying nine is natural hunting attributes would just it was born with him. He come from two very very good. Lonzo Doug put together and those attributes I speak of able who what's that mean what it means is he started from an early age and on locked to introduce him to it because it by so just take him along in the cage on the back and I get experienced all environmental the smells the sounds mood Bah. There's Kevin Shape NATO what are they they all dogs and kiss so then K. and then the next thing the elbows off if the unions pigs and I get caught in a little POPs in the case gone <hes> okay and then they start to I own or bat me on joining to stop barking carrying on the wire and yet Neka you already for look I win at Saif to do so so so he started pretty early and he was a big pop and basically managed what happened to him but he had his opportunity one note that was a bunch of pigs and thou deductible. There's not let him off and and Bugah may he runs through and jumps. I've always little pigs runs up to the front these big big and I was actually to them now very similar and so is he's. He's running between by me looking left. I saw him up now. There's nothing really between them but he just yell have that one and <hes> might even just a natural very level-headed dog <unk> easy process very very easy to listen to you on the pig and I sit for five with the kid thirty seconds after he's been doing his thing and yeah he son's showing the same soda attributes. Unfortunately he knows Gazelle man bought. It's it's a lawn of dog dog that these guys a bread for that. They'll sleep on the catch and I'm like you say it didn't with the family and go and catch so perfect so tell us about stop perfect because that's something that people need to hear that these on indiscriminate killers it's far from a and in fact in stride eighties illegal to have dogs that will hit kangaroos and the hunting pigs amidst kangaroos. Oh exactly my and it's there's a phone line of Abang legal and not you know and unfortunately unfortunately that's the thing with the social media comes into it. You know if you use a dog. The dogs and kill Pigs said Oh just hold them. Although the oldest do the byles bio bought you say goes go out the deal for the wrong reasons this real forum stand around filming on I.. Iggo the dog's not illegal because your prolonging the suffering the Animal Yep you're they do your job creek as you can. That's legal yet done so it is black and white and as at foreign lawn over like you said you not doing it to a pays any sadistic a distinct <unk> driving so at your anything that you doing it because it's a environmental risk and the dogs are extremely good an extremely effective. You know you go into a sorghum crop. That's up to your wife. Even sugar kind of goes up north and you can't say funny little unsure to be able to six seven something you're headed just over the top of them yeah so you can't say too funny little on shoot something and then the dogs flying then you know I think thirty peaks come running all yeah yeah well. I mean just like in military place applications. He used a dope for what does a good at exactly like us. We've talked about this with the special forces causing their dogs. I'm like Phyllis is no one bidder at fucking killing people than you so you don't need a dog held for that right. You need their dogs hope to find them or to find the explosives that they have put there for you like that's what a no can do that you can't do from the that's up to you and it's the same with the page right like the dog job is to just on that pig in Cape it where you can dispatch it exactly and and like reside that's the target animal the <unk> Oda Dogs and then everything else has non-target so that'll starts pretty young. It's just the general exposure and we don't touch that you've got overseer in control toy poodle aid very simple walking around whatever you don't want to touch and donate my Cafasso Bada Damien even always there and through repetitions adult onset again and then you come across the United States now nightshade I- kangaroo care eyeholes now domestic big because I smell different inactivity and then Oro pig yes really yes. You're led to do on your venditti something but okay cool. That's it and it's obviously very self rewarding like run around with a click on a trade patch and the bush he hasn't chicken not ultimate rainforests I for big dog is obviously catching the pig yep and and that's obviously while I still do it and love to do it and yeah the the whole non-target species seeing is it is a little bit of or not <hes> all got a couple of shape behind that actually use them got a couple of black shape because I like to test dogs. <hes> lucky next door to me is about fifty Kangaroos. There's an I often come into our place and the dogs get to say them all the time then Oughta factor an issue but just like humans predominantly pigs blacks every black shave set a peak not burn stop. It's gotTa be do that the Rock and and as a son's going to everything will pay day and same assigned burnt law gets me every time the fence pal gets every time exactly and so the dogs of the sign what Moba Chez Chez shape black mobile pigs pigs on so I'll got what shape to black shape not to shake and they really quite shape and get them up and fade him in front of the dogs and a Fadiman amongst the dogs and I grew up his lining. No one else acknowledges him they just don't ignore them and they shape a cool <hes> they'll staunch the dogs and Ivy Young. They'll comes up to a clash shows out us to stop it foot law the head and little pumpkins. Maybe not and I just line no one else touches him so he doesn't touch them so just an exposure thing and and then the hall self rewarding thing of the pig dogs on stoop they catch on very quickly by by the same token computers say now a little guys doggone jump on the usual models not showing real interesting pigs headiest proof them and that is done come pre program unfortunately environmental factors of saying Doug's change dogs that are no working very very very good and outshine chains hone your environment put one dog on a truck full of new dogs. I can get suppressed and you sweat never been hunt before in the law. Give it back to its own dog and a todd for people who don't understand animal behavior to be couple not unless you unless you you is now on I'm talking about unless you really spent on with animals and say how they can be affected but sorry let me just rewind just a little bit setting up. No you're right but what I just wanted to bring up was a lot of people say oh you're doc you. You pick dogs will chase roosen. Whatever no you'll pet dog will change for us because you have not had the opportunity like my momma will chase ruse? I know I've seen him kicking DEPRI- over because taking places where we'll bay but when I have been places it's pry moves moves fast yeah and and Kangaroos are the worst thing because it's you watch him. Hop in its chase me. Yes Me Shave Ron. Stop Look in the Doug as soon as you know it's game on yeah yeah and so like oh I know show my dog will chase down reuss lobby at a recall him matthias but still like most people they average pet dog that say something extraordinary out of what they would normally say it moves fast your dog station that Ed and probably GonNa engage with it and the bad news for a lot of people that if you do suddenly come across ruses Roosevelt exceptional fought is and and have a technique of drowning probably saying that Rusal Lua like a dog that's chasing into a damn and then drown it. I have a very good at that you're Waldo of sites have come across a roo in the dam up towards chess because the dogs go to come in the water and then the holdem under I mean the drops have in a big impact on on route to look. I mean W ell died. They moving going into suburbia rising in in the pox of go to bid on him. I drive into town. They'll die in the kids dot the Rougemont Way and there's a dozen ruse lying across ride from the wars in West Saba in I always people walk in there. Poodles is Pasta and skippy. Yeah that's it and so I think that's worth bring out because these dogs that specifically trying to hunt pigs trying for exactly that because you have like pigs are on farms bombs is other animals Pete's those is does not allowed to engage with those animals and you because I mean you're out of the jean-paul fuel if your dog if you're on someone's property and you hope your dog that's near the hunt pigs. Now's one of their shape like that you'll blacklist Mama's AFAM AS Roma's talk and yet it's good to get good references. It's very easy to lose the first arm Moldova ran into Moga Shade Mahamasima mouth and the FEMME was with me and he's like she jumped and say sniffen she sniffen and she jumped shows sort of young dog but Laura you gotta give them that opportunity to step up a few pigs and and guide confidence and she sniffen Illinois she's reacting he. There's something about she jumps and she runs over shape and he goes what's she doing. I'm like I don't worry she's hundred percents dog proof and impact on plays as long as and she's bailing for the shaving gone and she's GonNa Wail off. The wind was coming from the Raj impale. If any second what are you doing crap crap all of a sudden Moses pots read say of what shape deep and he's he's peak in the middle of the shade just niles it in the farm guys that was awesome. She does all torn down in just about to like ray caller and she while she wouldn't come because it was a pig but that was ten years ago be known as for sixteen years and and yeah that was a big that was my man and you know of watched him do it. Hey Times now though I'll be running towards him over something I shouldn't say in the next fixing the just hang a quick left town and the pig hold up in a Bush a very clever he coming. He the rattle of your truck in Ivy go cage. Don't guys does at rattle. These older wiser bose will hunters <hes>. I'm just going to haul up. We're GONNA blow out of <hes> <hes> so yet the but yeah the stock proving these they might important you can take any job to catch pigs but you've got also be able to take him or not to catch not choice and I mean once I get the work and they I know what they're often. It's it's very easy. Touch ward off not had a an incident way one's done something that shouldn't and also pay was killed an injured in sixteen years of never lost the dog nor have never lost on in the Bush of Nevada one killed into the vets a few times bought gave him fate capability. L. Tasings a better than me the athletes and not silly you get some braids of dogs with absolutely Nar self-preservation. They GONNA have a show law span but until get injured everyday in the domestic house exactly my they got more chance of being hit by car are doing basically is incidents everyday with dogs gash themselves in in your backyard. May just I'm here about obviously I bet if you talk about a aboard tasking dog or anything that then pay all right and what's interesting is that plenty of dogs probably Gash themselves livening people's backyard and those people don't know what the fuck to do you carry make veto one hundred percent for ourselves and the dogs and it's the same kit you know it's a pretty extensive thing and Bain involve captive all off twenty is now a Condo <unk> Cup of things to off the vets helping with procedures and and you know I've got my son with me nearly all the time he he's. He's more handy than most people you know. He knows exactly what to do in emergency situations. We've been through things if if this happens Dad GonNa do if I needed to do this and he's me little fest I'd man he's like China and the free failed. He's you know he's Tanis baiting me to the pigs now. You're just GONNA wind up junior but he's got the first aid kit all the time with him. I'm a little Bombay bag and training dogs who training children as well exactly exactly yep I mean he's fulfilled his and I it's not just we gotta hunt pigs. We Watch we say wall off. You know we find kidding. We say going up trees. We say which <unk> out eagles I mean the cool thing of cool to some people but not others I mean we're not we're at and I always usually take ruffling case as well and we saw a Fox <hes> to Fox's harassing swamp Wallaby and unlike he's dead quake and I'm like yeah got it son and I watched it in swamp wallaby spot joey out and we buying and dropped one of the Fox's and the N._F._l.. Guys Whoa crap and he stopped. I always have another look at a second day but Mamad legged it. She dumped as mccord's dude ditched bye-bye again. Sorry kid yeah. You'RE GONNA survive another day so anyway have knocked by as Fox's in the US auto the baby and I said well let's just city in the spotlight up in the score not on the by being and five minutes Ida Beckham's MOM and these babies colon goal and climbs back into patch enough they on it was awesome kid. I mean what I don't look. He gets to say that sort of thing. Also it's a bird's eye Keeley Sofala birds and he's learning about the environment in you know he's GonNa be on your head out Coop Doug China Echo no ours he wants to do this. I yeah it's it's teaching the kids as well because yeah he's good on finding a tablet in an xbox but there's too many of them too much of that going on now delusion like my kids get their Tony Dogs and do jump on my daughter's little dumpy like Jack Russell. That's eight inches Dole jumps and made a twenty one kills it and this thing is on. They don't leave it. It's it's teaching dogs and kids. That's awesome. What's the guy's name from <hes> mayday Steve Ronel? Yes Vanilla. Stay Vanilla Yeah. He talks to quite a lot in that show which is on Netflix. It's <hes> another one that pet got me onto called mater and he talks about about how effectively hunters after they saw to grow up a little bit in their initial juvenile phases of going out and hunting they become environmentalists themselves like they very much about protecting the environment. You know that become very aware era of the environment and the spacey's affecting it and I guess you know humans like to suggest that they try and bring back balanced but in some cases they actually do when they start taking these invasive species and protect the natural doctrine of wildlife that actually exist arena or one hundred percent on our side properties at of literally the pigs off and there's there's none they known for pharmacy saw no osaze one and I'll get a phone call but up the property are used to do in burke which I made for <hes> Wall I had a colony of little band gloves and these pigs had come in and obviously smashed in this up so we them pretty hard and you'd say these little banded Lavas in the next year you say mourn your say more and it was you know it's pleasing to say you do something about it. Even not just a band-aid solution. If this case the pressure on then I move elsewhere yeah <hes> and you know it. Sorry let me explain that so <hes> Baba's for people that know is a ground nesting bowed right and so in Australia and New Zealand had a lot of ground nesting bids as well because there's no predators for that very few very go. Anna would be pretty much like is very few predators pay just waltz zone Alpin AIDS that whole home this exactly and that's a burning season gone yeah and you know I pay offense. I already do with the pigs and well when the when the chill is I've been in the industry's gone and they exported overseas. He's domestically. They're actually dressed out part of a market or they'd taken his dog food bicycle and yeah. There's some zoonotic diseases and stuff. You're going to be careful of bought me. We're trying trying that stuff for the food health and safety acton a boxing pigs say checking caucuses but the worst thing at the end of the day is at my recent Fox's and cats jomon leaves him night of criticism because their opportunity to very fair to carrying Karen Yuck Geez Reggie Great. I think there's issues with that up north as well with it getting hundreds of Pigs Puno out in the canfield because he can't leave him in luck. It's pigs constitution very similar to human like you can't leave a body in the raw and contaminate dominate the whole like the whole area to be dealing budgeting Volos bodies is a at chored like that's that's a huge task along with that the killing of the picket so fitness machines you know just like sculpted a donuts ah on her out every single on we're talking about just the you say that while you're at hunting you know carrying the clicker in the trae patch but your big difference in what you're changing in the community is there's a lot of front frontloading that kind of style teaching the Basic Dog Staff Yup setting up success. You know there's always one lawn is that the dog training industry has bought is too many August I too many people get adulting thing. It's a computer take him out and he just knows what to do. Whereas all to set set up a lot at home or props and a lot of training and law reps and the biggest thing is to get my dog in the and so I just fall is the other dogs just fade him up the bureau at dragging up white collar few times but a set up you know I'll get palettes and set up pellets to a sudden heart and they've got a step and initially to sort of captured on my front deck is walking down the deck and the dove as full as he gets a trait and <hes> pretty easy you know establish what up means give the word meaning he just follow up up up? Might that a naive once you explain to someone and show them on a video. I'm very little videos on what page of this is step one. We didn't really doing anything Jeez outlook daisy yet. He's my the dog in the dog has stallone what means let's after we charge a clicker all the way yes with food and they don't file airless learning concept of all right Mike steps foreign account filed because I step up onto the youth and do that for oil take one away did that for all take two way and then I actually Astro Astro Turf on top of my palate and uncle magic carpet because eventually get a one palette and the NAR pellets but the pace of magic carpet say and some dogs in I I want jump up on it for two unless that Magic Converts a till the muscle memory going and it's not an issue and you can apply the techniques or the other dogs out jumping up there and I miss an ad if that I wanna get up and it's a lot of dissenting them often memory coal basically weekly a pig dog just needs to know get up on the native who'd Stein a bloody drako and that's only night from a pig Dole. Let's not go into on starting to Leonard Bit to be honest my debts to of the most important things in any domestic dog that lives in a house a good Nicole. Yeah I mean that would save countless lives. Yes I couldn't even I couldn't even give you a figure because it would be hundreds of thousands of dogs that would be saved by nine ailing nose to exercise that forever. I you know I don't okay what dog if you can down at distance and hold it and very coal you can you can solve any problem you find yourself into great point because that's the thing I'm not. I'm starting to dip tonio world a little bit cool but before before that was just dogs that's Blue Col- immobility England. I'm just trying to sit down in the STI- in Ray Coal and get on the eight. Let's go that's pigs yet and you say you're doing workshops on that. Yeah started sound a little business couple of years ago and and thought instead of trying to rescue dogs habit our help give black some tools that have been pasta me and I can put my little become to spin on it because let's be honest. Industry is in really really open to a lot of change unless you're in it awkward. Try them the best doctrine in the world and they're gonNA wait on Hunt Pizza. Yeah I get it who and you know I go to bit of flack of Gauze Trade Patch and what you don't grab him in CHOGM. Who's Boston's like what do your soft and then might to joining guys yeah what would do with elephants set a bigger stronger smarter than dog so it could crash into the incident if they chose of course exactly <hes> so yeah it's and then I go okay so it just takes at Aachen mini dug into doing this will be thinking otherwise have getting the duct WanNa do it so the Heo put together this little workshop and educate goes? I've every dog that I get from then on if they WANNA listen and take on board that will change their lives and then they might say what I do with their dogs and follow suit and I mean it's not I'm not reinventing anything just inching really cool stuff other professionals in Saudi older putting a pig on a spin on it and yeah. I'm I'm like a God I get to come to me and sit a workshop and just very Bisi just extremely by seacat easily click at a actually trying and I actually training behavior yeah a lot of people think about it and it's like come on bridge reward. Wow so simple yeah it is really simple and you watch dog. Doing I usually get a little popular to in at the workshop or adult that pretty grain and actually show some rail stafan elect getting on a price just basic Kimba the to fade on it and just get a stay in a sit from pop and over the course of the Diet just very short one minute two minutes sessions. You say these people's dogs tanning running on this bullshit working. I can say this little puppy. That was like nice nothing now it's snowing sit in a sti- in these like four steps off five seconds and then click. It's like it's black magic. What is the click on? I'll give everyone applica- at the end of the day and <hes> little sort of packed with a lead and and I make a little professionally get handout with some pretty fight is and stuff and step-by-step guard bought it just set some. It's basically it's cold setting off a success. I think it's not one for wall but it's the five tips we got through training united. I retain get on the donor ray coal and then some some basic manners taught Dale and and I did a bit of a tour up three coins in las jaded so the half a dozen cy workshops and and that's stopping and Katrina in the high which was cool. That's why we <hes> we had to go John about it and issues helped a lot as the other people mentioned this to the stuff together and I'm actually currently working on a Davide. I'm doing one of those that everyone's owns a lot of people done how puppy to to going dog because as people in different positives triaud and unity workshops like family hunt and things like that trump so I'm going to get this little puppy and I'm going to try and film as much as I can and you know the festivities going to be pretty crap law giving me best shot but I'll do it again and again again and I'll get better and better. I'm sure I'll miss things and little Raleigh's six months now <hes> still insane a pig not rush likewise. I won't Super Dog at six months old. This can live to twelve or thirteen years working could live longer. Let's invest the time into it and yeah she's rice and around with the other dogs for some reason she just wants to buy them on the ease bought them on the supply and now why am I doing this. I die but it's all instincts they are not started with some send detection. She's finding a little my bowl pissed all pissed bullseye. Are they boy. Oh you're on insane mixed together and then you call mobile's in them rubbed on rock on heart and united as little dogs of the nicely grant and sniffing out here it is thought he was my goddamn bobby chicken pig yet. That's an interesting one right center for Katrina. Tell me about have you know she imprint poppies on boys urine and incentives like exactly the same way would for explosive-detection dog from from Papi they aiding over the sent that they ultimately GonNa follow all I wouldn't you. It's this thing but to to us in the indecent game you like that's what you do but this is this is not what people used to write like payment of the odor and that would shock a lot of people and all that used Audra drag some boskin around and then the doug fines at Nosov. That's cool but the ducks following your scent is luckily yeah you dragged into the Bush yet. There's a great deal about sin contamination which can confuse the dog on what other actually searching for and that's wear a lot of people go wrong in the whole sending field of things like you have a perception of what you think. The dog is looking for an and and yet because of the man of contamination in the hall pitcher. The dog thinks while this is what you want me to look for what I think thing is the most rewarding sent to look for and that is a problem so if you can isolate that and you can make it the most unique or a molecule that he can and the dog Lens. That's the only thing I'm rewarded off the only thing then there's no problem with contamination of discrimination the the the dog is completely away of the sole side of it's got Hanta out exactly and they can be fixed that on that before they even Guy Bushes A._a._R._p.. Yeah and before they've noted they just know it's a sent with value adds rewarding and then once on say you get that ultimate reward who yes while flips are to l mean learning the stuff that you guys have already nine for a long time ago. dissemble dislike Hammy pig dogs actually leaving the city and go hunting rifle fourteen year rather than every week which is what I try and get out so you can pour some Fox in some kangaroo San like I for whatever you want Shane Cattle Horse Guy pig and you can taste doug basically to ignore all this other stuff affect <hes> and then nihilist one and then he gets out in the Bush knew soda. Yeah sure you still gonNA have to there's a shape running or a kangaroo hoping but he's GonNa come across. That smell got Nah Nah. They all is at one. I'm a follow this but the other dogs Bingo had a dog from there are spacey I once and it took him like father seeks pigs and he was fawning himself which is is very very good and I saw him. Dokes can take twenty thirty peaks doesn't trips and these calls like now hi this stuff <hes> because I applied around some Senate Heim before I even took him out because he was fat and on fit a recipe for disaster so he had about six weeks at time of fitness and getting into shy before I even took him Bush in that time you got the sense Dauphin Mighty was Wanna perfect so it's <hes> it's cool the he'll mix auditor out of that kind of stuff and how far ahead it's GonNa go like with. I think largely in Strike Katrina was probably one of the first people that I met that was from that community because I really didn't know other than just being out with people that had dogs like shooting people to have those like China. That was like I'M GONNA I've learned this and I am going to figure out how to apply these to what I do and and obviously did it supposedly it's fucking cool to say the mill the the the molding and the melding of those two worlds it's putting it is might and of unfortunate enough in a work with Ryan a few times with these little spring at tile and watching that dog he's got it unlike some like different animals and it'll fond they indicate on animal todd Tokes to live on the Fox and not guys and then tomorrow to qualified and I'm like what do you do this with your dogs. Nah He's yeah and yeah it's it's different. They are a different. You know this spring on the big those kind of like I'll go on this because I'm GonNa get some barbecue chicken at the end of Yeah and then once you pay that with Guy Bush and actually know what it's about once I now I pay I mean that's sorta will join the dynamic yeah yeah and law goes said you guys before getting them to play tug shorts great good friend on off switch. Let Guy Release all that stuff but <hes> yeah. I'll play tug but really really do. I'll get to do the real thing kind of a bit bought. It still good to get them on the same united practice match fitness guide to run a dog but he can get them logging hold of the log toy. That's what builds the fitness is thinking about again because I love all Cape mentioning about Katrina although Jape trying to get him to chase a flip poll on day and sounds like I got no pray he still has fucking pry. Let me tell you if you're he ain't ain't interested in your little rag on the on the end of the string because he's killed more pigs than cancer. He chases real pray and the thing I impressing him. He's a proper Dole Yeah. Hey Tom who had had to people getting contact with you. Price Book blue-collar Heinen's. I've a little facebook page another one that if they they are hunter and I want to help out at all is joining the IPAD Agi which is striping dogs and Hunters Association Stri what as I shall we have a two thousand members and the more people that we get inadequate nervously leading voices we we I involved in some of the government things that we can help with the united some programs up north in on territory with the help on national parks as a bit of thing with the on the castleberry cars trying to help out with parts of the rainforest protecting cassowaries and try to get our point across when Nitro the legislation stuff to to stop what we're doing. You know there's always pay out there that WANNA. We should be doing this for those. We're going to ban. It's good luck with that. It was really GonNa do with all adults and case away killers now that the truth is that a lot of people just don't understand luck. I truly believe that at the coal that people who are really opposed to this stuff doing the right thing they just on educated and it's our job as people who are educated and it to educate them and say hey luck I know that you'll for animal welfare and believe it or gnaws yeah. This is what this is why this is happening. Get on board get involved like <hes> actually joined the organization that you were mentioning before and find out what it's all about on that brilliant to cause eighty bucks feely fe you get twenty twenty million dollars public liability insurance right off the bat upto property or someone might have you ever probably pigs. Can I come on you know maybe my in public liability insurance show done the iron and I know it's not even scupper Taylor Moore lovely wife. She's awesome. She loves the dog she helps out with everything and I wouldn't be anywhere near royal today with her but it's not a she never come. Hunting shows WANNA come hunting one hundred percent one. That's choice in I must incomes hi mom and you know we go into. He doesn't go into descriptive data. Did you ever go tomboys Doug good yes white and then let's let's respect at the end of the day I think for a lot of people as well that the people not just the dogs by hunting is biologically fulfilling for a lot of people and and people who haven't been in don't have that that pot of them but you'll never understand what's the supreme our our honesty or whatever you want asylum but he he on us is extremely are running thing about it is is that all the people who are anti pig-hunting and whatever they want to choose to live they lost stalls Bougainvillean or not they wouldn't be heeded. I wasn't for maintenance hunting the elephant evolve so and then you know the hypocrisy of not killing things but the amount of animals at Deutsche to produce the non meat food the peak hunters as they came pigs of your food more Brian Crops of account growing Rogan who was talking about this long. Special fringe are yet Joe Rogan Yep he was he was Mike you mentioned that exact point then he said that grain farmers will basically annoy like anything that goes near the crop every night they not talking about knocking a few coyotes and wolves and Fox's or I it's atrophy going near they flock they will Nile everything and basically just make sure that I've got Honda's on the property fled stake to Mike show those crops don get taken down so it's quite a lot of Arnie I was about to say before I'd like to leave in a perfect world wher rather than people becoming triggered and so oh activists minded that would actually ask questions. I you know like say that it does take some sensitivities in me. Could you tell me why it happens. You know Mr Greg Hanta. Could you tell me why you're doing that. I watched the reason behind behind that now I think if somebody with your knowledge and longevity in it you could site oh mold. There's not just one reasons I can give you twenty reasons. Why and you picked it before? Pat What you said you know. They're good people at heart. Yeah that's right you know that that they do main very very well and and yeah when we subject to meteor images of people doing cruel shit too little baby animals and Shit <hes> normal hunting is todd with the same brush paypal Danko out they preying on. I'm murdering baby animals and making him Safa what they are trying to do is basically saying alright well. It's the job yes the world and everything happens is is a delicate ecosystem family think that if you say something happening that's commonplace apply. If you're like a instead of trying to stop at you go to try and understand it because there's chances I it's very necessary on and for the United Inverted Commas the greenies or the tree huggers off handwriting probably more night of animals than I'll ever Walsum gone out doing pigs of baby birds Jerry's at home that I'm bottom fading during the night yeah so it's you can't possibly well yeah Ken. It's possible can be had to reconcile but that is the truth. It is exactly it's observable. Come over and have a look at these dogs aw these are nice that come and help out actually open your home you know like if you want to criticize it opinion home to it yeah told a lot of people that before you know the very people who are yelling and screaming outraging the Living Room said open your home to it start rising sugar gliders and and wombats in your backyard and put your money where your mouth exactly on represent all right. Let's wrap it out yeah. Thanks thank you very much bothering me. He's been pleasure and he's not yeah hi. Thank you very much. <hes> that's it for another can't compare them as a wise. If you lock what he had locked right Shays garbled just telephoned if you want to support the show the best way do that. He's patron for Bucks Musket you an extra episode a month and Tim box issue alive Q. and A. Which you'll notice of schedule the next one I did comment on the night the date of but it's on the facebook have a look or if you're on the patron you would have the notification and if only getting contact with us we <hes> Info at the Canine Paradigm Dot Com. That's it that music button ready Glenn Ready.

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What 'High Fidelity' Teaches Us About Breaking Up

1A

35:25 min | 1 year ago

What 'High Fidelity' Teaches Us About Breaking Up

"It's one eight. I'm Todd Zwick. Twenty years there's ago a new kind of ROM COM hit theaters. It challenged our expectations of the boy meets girl. boy gets girl genre. By Desert Desert Island all time top five most memorable breakups in chronological order are as follows. Alison Ashmore More Penny Hardwick. Jackie Alden Charlie Nicholson and Sarah Kendrew. Those were the ones that really hurt. Can you see her name. On that list Laura. Maybe it sneak into the top ten. But there's just no room for you in the top five sorry. Those places are reserved for the kind of humiliation heartbreak. You just not capable of delivering a vast ask. That was John. Cusak of course starring as Misanthropic record store owner rob in high fidelity in two thousand. It was a fourth wall breaking adaptation of Nick. Hornby novel from Nineteen ninety-five and the movie became a cult. All classic for its top five list. You just heard one of them there. It's commentary on love and heartbreak and a breakout performance by very young Jack Black. Well now now hi. Fidelity is back with a new adaptation this time for TV and format isn't the only big change in this new version it also features a female L. Rob Zoe. Kravitz takes the lead role in this series which drops this Friday just in time for Valentine's Day breakup stories on Valentine's Day. Imagine that with us to talk about the legacy of the original high fidelity book to screen. Adaptation is Dana Schwartz Television writer and entertainment reporter Dana. Thanks for being here. Thank thank you so much for having me what a pleasure and Veronica West is here as well co creator of Hulu High Fidelity joins us from NPR West in Culver City California Veronica. Welcome welcome to one A.. Thanks for having me. Well Danish Schwartz. The film adaptation of High Fidelity debuted just about twenty years ago in the year. Two Thousand Refresh share memories for people who haven't seen it or haven't seen it in a long long time. What's the basic premise of high fidelity? The film absolutely high fidelity obviously obviously stars John. Cusak and Junk Cusak plays rob this sort of music snob who doesn't really realize what a an off-putting off-putting snap. He is he. Works at a record store And he's dealing with the breakup of his girlfriend. Laura but in the process of of dealing with that break-up he's he's trying to uncover what's gone wrong with his romantic history so he goes backwards through his past girlfriends. Learning more about himself and ultimately Spoiler spoiler alert reconcile so Dana. It became a bit of a cult classic because of its depiction of breakup in that that bumbling and often pathetic nick quest for closure after it goes wrong that so many of us have been through. But how did high fidelity stand out from other romantic comedies of the time or or even since I think amazingly it's not structured like a ROM com structured like a novel but in obviously because it was based on one but in that early two thousands thousands year. I think people got very used to that that same structure where the break-up that we would see at the beginning of a round com would always be that wrong relationship attention that we never see again. It's very refreshing to see every character in this room common as real human people and not tropes. I think it's it's uniquely structured. I think rob is such a prickly character. You know you so I say likable. Because you know he has unlikable aspects but he's still so relatable in a time when when Ram comes very gilded and shiny you know where people are just beautiful people in their flaws are that they're you know two adorable little a little too clumsy. I think the fact that rob has actual clause that he has to reckon with Is really refreshing. And let us not forget about Tim Robbins Sensitive Ponytail Tale Guy. If you haven't seen high fidelity in the longtime Quebec and check it out. It's hilarious up. Dan Aram comes good at depicting realistic breakup. Sometimes they're not good at depicting realistic realistic relationships. What about the downside Very often I mean. There are absolutely a few notable exceptions but on the whole I think the the standard of around com is never about the break-up it's about Finding the person that you're meant to be with above all else often the character victor in around come the two lead characters are dating other people at the beginning or they you know are about to get married to the wrong person but we never actually see that aftermath Mattino. Someone stops the wedding. The weddings cancelled and the two people who are meant to be together are meant to be together and if they break up delete characters. It's always just one misunderstanding. And then one tearful confession in the rain later. They're back together all his will. Oh God it just doesn't line help with real life. Well Hey we've been asking one listeners about real life and been hearing from lots of you about your own breakup especially as it relates to staying friends with XS. That's a thing that happens in the movies and awful lot here or two of their stories. This is David with any for ten years ears and eventually we had to end the relationship. Because we're going in different directions and I remember her stating the goal of the break-up should be remained friends and cultivate the love and friendship. We have all that time. It was a bit of a challenge for three or four five months but there was some jealousy and some other things. But eventually Ashley it became a very rewarding and still rewarding relationship and Last year and Thanksgiving I had a heart attack in the first person to show off on my couch and take care of me for the first week was my ex-girlfriend ten years amy. My name is Laurie from salt. Lake City Utah and I dated a guy I who was friends with all of his exes so when we broke up he of course wanted to remain friends? I tried to remain friends with him him out of hopes that we would get back together and did not happen. He wound up meeting someone else and they were engaged. I was was invited to the bridal shower and the wedding at the bridal shower. I got really drunk on wine and had to get a ride home. I'm an cried and saw the whole way home that I was not the one marrying him. Say The least. I did not go to the wedding and eventually stopped being friends with Edman his now wife. Any of these stories could have been elements or scenes in the new high fidelity Ru boot on Hulu Lou Veronica West. You're the CO creator and writer of High Fidelity on Hulu. What drew you to this story? That's been told an awful and told in the movies. Well well first of all. I think that the pitch that that lasts listener made would make an excellent episodes shade the bridal shower and very brave of her to share that on national radio. So the reason I mean the core reason that I was drawn to doing this project just out of a total love for the source material. I mean I read the book when I was very young and when the movie came out like as Dana was saying like this movie is a seminal piece and it did change Rom coms and. It's something that I've been a huge fan of for such a long time so getting the chance to tackle this area area and use the core. Dna Of this character rob who is extremely unlikeable extremely flawed person and put that those qualities onto who a female lead was just something that was so attractive because generally we see these Rom coms where it is a female lead. The problem is finding Mr all right. You know you're looking around and everybody's flied and it's about meeting the right person In our show there are lots of Mr Rights. You you know the the point was to do not just a love story between two people. So it's not too much of a spoiler for the show that she said Robin Laura. Do you get back together. At the end of the film our our mission was to make sure there were lots of viable options for our rob. And you'll meet them when you watch the show There's nothing wrong with any of them. They would all make great matches for her. The problem that rob has really internal you know she has to learn how to follow love herself before she can fall in love with somebody else. One one of the advantages of having this space of television show versus you know an hour and forty minutes in a movie is that you can get more nuance. You can have three or four four or five Mr Rights instead of a very sort of dichotomy Mr right an versus sensitive ponytail guy much more space to explore the character and Veronica your version features Zoe Kravitz. As I mentioned fans of high fidelity will of course no that her mom Lisa Bony had a major role in the original film is is this a form of continuity or more of a coincidence. Well I think it was just luck I mean when you have the the opportunity to get to do a project like this you make a list of your favorite actor says like the people you think would be best for the part and you never get your first choice so we As a group are all just so lucky that so he Kravitz. who was? Obviously our first choice actually was interested in doing this project and the reason we chose her is because she is so uh-huh smarts year she has such a distinct point of view. She has such an authenticity and she happens to be really really relatable to women despite the fact that she's one of the most beautiful pitiful and the world so when you were dreaming up potential leads. It's true so we Kravitz was at the top of the list. You're not just saying that because she's your star and you and you WanNa make sure people know that I mean she really was your first choice and it worked out I mean how could she not be yes it is the truth I I have. The list approve it and we were just shocked in an odd that she was interested in. I think she did know the movie really well because her mother was in and of course. That's a cool Easter egg for the fans to sort of see that parallel allow but the surprise when we sat down with there was really how much she related to the character of rob and she said to me a couple of times that this is the closest character to herself that she's played and I think that's what's so interesting. Because people tend to say some people have said that is noncommittal attributes to the character of rob Bob are classically male and they're intrinsically masculine and I just don't think that's true you know I think it's interesting to see female point of view. Where where she he is just trying to find the right? Not find the right person but become the right person. Veronica West look comparisons are inevitable. When you're doing a reboot and say nobody breaks the fourth wall? Quite like John cusack. He's kind of the King of the fourth wall and a lot of ways I gotta say Zoe Kravitz is. She's really really good at it here. She is introducing herself as a character as rob as part of the show's premise. Okay okay so here's how not to plan a career. One split up with qualified to college three working. Are you struggling record. Shop owner of said record shop and stay there forever and five. There is no five the Fourth Wall Broken Veronica. There is no doubt that Zoe Kravitz is an incredibly talented actress but playing camera playing to the viewer breaking the fourth wall is is one skill that not all actors I find really nail John Cusak nails it and I think Zoe Kravitz does too. It's a huge part of this story. Absolutely you know. It really allows the audience to get to know the character in a more intimate way to be able to have access to her. Inner thoughts really allows is her outward behavior to the other characters. We sort of get away with a lot. More women in general in these kinds of shows don't necessarily get to be the bad guys an in our rob is very self involved. She's narcissistic she doesn't pay attention to her. Friends lives and that sort of like a lesson. She learned over the series but because she lets us into her. Inner thoughts and revolt abilities and Zoe does such a beautiful job sharing that vulnerability I think the audience can be along for the ride with our even as she. She continues to make huge mistakes everywhere. This is a gender swapped version of high fidelity. It's definitely a new way to tell the story but I've noticed out there. Some criticism awesome of gender swapped versions of old stories. In general. I mean some people say hey. Why do something repetitious? That's been done with. The genders flipped when writers women writers are coming up with new original scripts that can be made you struggle with that. You sympathize with that at all. I mean that's a totally totally valid point of view. I absolutely understand that I think that I think that it's interesting to see. Women in unexpected and unexplored explored places and in a weird way. Sure owning a record store at there are like three female owned record stores in the country like that's an in actual fact and it's on the surface okay. She's in an unexpected place. As one of the characters in episode four says like you're occupying this horse historically masculine place but in another way it's actually seeing a woman and two women and women of color that are occupying this fan culture who are in of space that is normally reserved for like fan boys. And when you think about video game fans are the people go to comic con or music fans which is such a part of the the original on material the book and the movie that this this mail space to see women have opinions about music and be taken seriously and not be labeled as groupies. Historically seeing women music fans their relationship with music is sometimes demean to this lake intrinsically sexual relationship and JEB. Because they obviously have a crush on the guy in the band if they like that music and switching that I think is worth doing you know I would never have redone this this property without making this flip to a female lead like I find the book and the movie to Be Perfect at rations of this story. You know and the only reason to read you. That story is to have a different new context to it. We'll go well. I just want to ask Dana Dana. Going back to the original high fidelity when we look at rob with a male. Antecedent of Zoe Kravitz his. Rob It striking when you watch it today. How how how angry and petulant? He is in the film home. Does that read differently now. In twenty twenty. Do you think you know. It doesn't read well but I'll say it reminds me of several of my ex-boyfriends it's very relatable. I think that he is you know. Emblematic of a certain young person. I mean I don't know if necessarily I'm familiar with that got personality nowadays In vied the vinyl record seen but I think that that sort of Self confidence and insecurity in that sort weird toxic stew that makes one hate themselves but act like they hate everyone else is a constant is a is a thing thing that young people feel Constantly and will continue to feel forever and I think it's so exciting to see That in in the form of a of a a young woman I think that anger and resentment and bitterness and the facade of trying to be cool isn't an inherently masculine thing. Even though we've we've only traditionally seen it with masculine characters. And in this reboot of High Fidelity Dana a rob is aware that she's in a traditionally masculine place in a Lotta ways. Owner of a record store traditionally the the Geek dudes realm. Yeah I mean I think that nowadays there's so many spaces is that women are are able to infiltrate and really powerful ways and that leads to brand new struggles. I haven't seen the show yet and I'm incredibly incredibly excited to but I imagine a lot of A prickly facade might come because she needs to have her defenses up we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA talk more about high fidelity. Let's take a quick pause in shorts as a television writer. Veronica West is co Creator and writer of Hulu High Fidelity. I've Todd's where like you're listening to one A. from WMU and NPR support for this podcast and the following message. Come from Uber. Uber is committed to safety and to continuously ASLI raising the bar to help make safer journeys for everyone for starters. All drivers are background checked before their first ride and screened on an ongoing basis and now uber has introduced a brand new safety feature called ride. Check which can detect a trip goes unusually off course and check in to provide support to learn more about Uber's commitment to safety eighty visit Uber Dot com slash safety. Do you talk about the news with your friends. Your family or perfect strangers. Get the facts. You need to be up to speed beat on this busy news cycle so you can share what you know on the news. Roundup find the podcast in your feet. Every Friday. Want to play in the very same place as chance. Chance the rapper Taylor Swift Yoyo Ma or mid sqi. If you're an unsigned musician you could play at. NPR music famous tiny desk. Just submit a video to the tiny mini disc contest. Find out more and see the official rules at NPR dot org slash tiny disc contest back now to high fidelity and how breakup and art art melt in pop culture with Dana Schwartz Media and entertainment writer and Veronica West Co creator of WHO's High Fidelity adaptation and we got out this tweet from volcano. WHO's a little down maybe on high fidelity but has something specific to say relationships confusing confusion longing longing and sensory pleasures are eternal? I cannot think of a single reason to remake this film other than to update the soundtrack and Veronica Music is so central to the storytelling high fidelity rob runs a record store with her friends down in that basement. How did you approach updating the soundtrack for a two thousand twenty audience Well interestingly enough obviously all of us have our own musical point of view and we wanted each each of the characters to have their own musical point of view and they don't just listen to obscure music they also have guilty pleasures and listen to popular music but the real musical. Oh I'd entity of the show started to take root when Zoe signed on and she shared a playlist on spotify with all of our executive producers and the music supervisor's and quest love came on board to help shepherd the musical vision of the show so to have always point of view quest love and are amazing. Music six supervisors at aperture kind of mind meld together and come come up with a musical point of view for each character and songs that span on multiple decades they listen to old music new music music from every continent Makes an appearance in the show in the first season. So actually I think spotify. Why is GONNA release that original play less that Zoe made for the show When the show is release some of the best scenes in my personal opinion opinion are when these experts these nerds? These music snobs are fighting about which music is good and not bad not the music they think is good and bad the music. I think that is good and bad. When they're down there in that record store well one of our listeners call to share his story of reuniting with an axe after going to a concert? I'm sleep baird from clover South Carolina and new years ago. I went to see you John Crime and low John Ryan but I didn't expect to spend half the show with tears streaming down my face because every song reminds me of is special person who We we both fell in love with John Crimes Music at the same time and we had broken Hadn't seen each other in twelve years. And when I got home from Matt Show I connected with her on facebook and now we're engaged to be married and that's that's because John Cryan music and our undying but I couldn't be happier. That's Nice Dana there is another old rom com with John cusack. You know what I'm talking about. I'm thinking John Cusak and say anything standing out there on the front lawn with the boombox over his head at the emotional. Just just bombshell moment to the movie. Why do you think music is so important to romantic comedies? I was going to say also so musical themes I think you know love sons. Speak to something that you can't articulate. In in regular words. I think so many people associate Asong with a feeling and in a good romantic comedy or or any movie really a song could become icon. I mean who can listen to Celine Dion saying you know my heart will. I'll go on without thinking of titanic. I think that when you're when you're watching two people in love you can buy their chemistry. You can buy their banter you can buy their. They're attractive people that they have a sense of humor. But you can't actually feel their love and I think songs trying to bridge that divide. It's it let's listener and the viewer feel something along with them. There've been one or two times where I've suspected that may be. The song is pulling my heart strings. Because the writing didn't I'm not talking about high fidelity in particular but sometimes in Rom coms right. The the emotional impact of the music does the work. Oh I feel that constantly. There are so many Films which I will not name the scores are so beautiful that they Overcome whatever clumsiness. There is in the script. Hire a good composer or get on your cast if you can In your writing room because it really works in High Fidelity Veronica. I WanNa talk about divine joy randolph. Can we talk about her. Who plays series of the over the top? No it all record store worker now. This is inheriting a character from Jack Black. In fact his breakout role. Take listen to this from high fidelity back in two thousand Jack Black. I just called to say I love you. You have it great. We have a great. Can I have it then no no. You can't one well sentimental tacky crap. That's one that we look like the kind of store that sells I just called to say go to the mall. What's your problem? You even know your daughter. There's no way she likes that song. SHEENA COMA OKAY buddy. I didn't pick on the middle aged square guy. Day My apologies. I'll be on my way uh-huh or more. So that's all right act black as berry in high fidelity in two thousand character who acts as his stand in this new version version of the story is also Gender Swapped Veronica divine joy ran off. She plays cherise in this series Veronica. She's hilarious she's hilarious. I know oh We're big fans of divine. Like we knew that this particular worrell would have a spotlight on it. Because Jack Black's performance is iconic Divine stepped into those into that role and just made it her own. And we'd we do do some Easter eggs and some callback SA- Jack Black Moments But Right Devine's character is intrinsically different because this is not just a two hour movie you know Dick and Berry only get to exist in sort of that Greek Chorus Chris Role for rob and for our show to have legs are characters. Jinan cherise need to be characters in their own right. Audience needs to be invested in their stories as well and I think Cherie says comedy comes from insecurity. The same way that buries did in the film but her insecurity has much more complicated layered the reasons for existing which we start to delve into in season one but I think we will continue as the shell grows. I gotta ask them. How do you make the show? How do you sit onset when she's working because I'd be defying in the back messing up every take when she's doing her thing? I mean she blows into her debut. Seen in the record store like a hurricane. You can't hold together. I don't know if you go through ninety rehearsal so it's not funny anymore. How do you do it? I mean I think they like it when it's funny onset for sure and a lot of the most serious moments Were just about the chemistry between Simon and rob on sat you know. They really gelled their friends in real life if they play off of each other in such an amazing life. Well we have to take a quick break. But we'll have a lot more with Dan Schwartz and Veronica West right after this. I talked to like this is one A. This message comes from NPR sponsor legalzoom. Legalzoom can help make sure your small businesses set up for success this year. LEGALZOOM has helped more than two million Americans incorporate form an LLC and more you can also get advice on contracts tracks lease agreements and other legal questions through legalzoom's network of independent attorneys since they're not a law firm. More information is available at legalzoom dot com slash slash. NPR stebner semi knows that at one point Hollywood had a very clear idea the kind of character. They wanted him to play. Whenever I would get a script? They would see what page I could be up on trying to kill somebody or when I get killed. That's on this week's Bullseye from maximum fun dot board and NPR. This is one A. and we're talking about the new. TV Show Hi Fidelity and ROM coms. In general well Dana talk a little bit about the role of best best friends in Rom coms and shows like this or in movies like this they. They sort of play bystanders. To the actual break-up the voice of reason the voice of chaos. What's the role of the best friend in the in the classic Rom Com? I think Veronica was really smart in in referring to bury as the Greek chorus. Yes I think the best friend in classic round come is just a sounding board for the lead character to sort of say whatever they're thinking and then for the best friend to respond respond like. I can't believe you're going on a date with him. That guy the guy who bumped into you at a coffee shop like give back exactly the exposition of what happened. You know you're the best friend isn't someone with a life of their own or a Or like an internal life exist only to respond and react to whatever the person on the poster is going through and often the best friend is the main characters is right. The best friend may be kind of unit dimensional. They do a lot of drugs. They had a lot of sex. They're really irresponsible. Because maybe there's a little part of the main character that used to be that or doesn't WanNa be that or is fighting against that that impulse. Yeah I think when the when the best friend character has a personality it is a one dimensional trait. They are the thing at that. The the lead has to fight against their the one saying well you could just stay like this. Where fine where together? And then of course. Over the course of the movie the lead character will grow and change. Dange Jack. Black's character is so funny and High Fidelity because he is rob's worst impulses he has rob you know magnified even more more snobbish. Even more prickly even more unlikable And I think in seeing him as like a funhouse mirror that might be what what propels does Junkies ex character a little more into wanting to uncover exactly what what's been going wrong with him and yet another advantage wjr of expanding an hour and forty minute movie into a series one season. Maybe two maybe three. Who knows is the opportunity to get these characters out of a fun house? Unit dimensional role is really fascinating. And it's a great opportunity while speaking of real life romances because one eight listeners have just been dying dying to give us their relationship stories. We got one call from a listener all about getting back together with an x honestly. We could not have made this up if we tried. I'm Mariah from Florida and I'm calling about your breakup stories. I broke up with a guy about ten years ago and every six to eight months yes I would have a bit too much to drink and send him an email to let him know that I wished him well and then his family was doing well and he ignored them all and sent to an auto delete inbox for about ten years and then one day. I got an email from him that he had a brain tumor removed and he had lost a lot his memory when the surgery I happened. He didn't remember his kids names or where he was but he remembered my face and my name and he kept asking his wife at the time time. When I won't be showing up that was about two years ago? And we've been together for about a year and a half now so not all your break-up stories and when you break breakout Wow Veronica i. I may be a brain tumor scenarios. A Little Far fetched for High Fidelity. But I don't know if you're taking notes there I mean that's that's real that's a happy ending. What do you think I mean? I feel a little bit bad for the wife and that story but I mean life. Life is stranger than fiction a lot of times you know and I think this show. We did want to keep it. Grounded and naturalistic and find the crescendo. Is is in real life as opposed to making up. Something that was heightened or unbelievable. You know I think that those moments can be a lot more resonant and real life is a lot more. Scary surprising and heartbreaking Then sometimes we want it to one of the things. I am not a fan of romantic comedies. I'll be honest I but one of the things I really liked about high fidelity is that the show is that it avoided these good guy bad guy good girl bad girl sort of dichotomies. The person who steps onto screen. Who you really don't like it? I 'cause they closed off or nerdy or just dumb. They turn out to have layers. They turn out to be nuanced. onced if you spend a little time with them in the store you realize they're not all good. They're not all bad they're just in this confusing. Mix along with rob and that's a really nice textured part of the story at least for me Dana. What about Mariah's story with the the brain tumor and the and the auto deletes for ten in years So farfetched for the one of the thousands of ROM coms that you've watched her right over the plate not too far fetched but I will go over August Sir that I do feel a little bit bad for the guy whose husband went through a brain surgery only thinking about his ex girlfriend. I think that is a very ROM com something because this is such a big romantic story that happened in the foreground between the axe and in this unfortunate surgery patient and then in the background. I if there is a break-up it's one that doesn't get a lot of attention or or you know motionless space on screen that is a very classic classic thing you know the the someone getting left at the altar. We don't really follow up with that person but it's incredibly romantic and I would not be surprised if there is a a movie coming without exact premise. Somebody somebody listening to one. A. Has just written down. The premise is on their way to the pitch meeting. As we speak Mariah Araya make sure you get in there for your credit because you deserve it Dana Billy Crystal back in when Harry met Sally. I raised this earlier today with the staff staff. Here when a he famously said men and women in this case can't be friends because sex and romance always gets in the way. Have we ever gotten a verdict on that after after ten thousand romantic comedy since he said that. Oh we absolutely can men and women can be friends just not in in a romantic comedy universe. Where the law dictates? Tate's that to attract people with chemistry absolutely have to end up together but Veronica in high fidelity Billy Crystal's prediction turns out to not be true. I mean I guess time will tell. Our goal was to make sure that different parts of the audience were rooting for different characters. To be with Robert to end up with rob and it does diverge substantially from the original in terms of the dynamics that are set up in the beginning. There is not just one person that we see rob connecting with so. We're not sure who she's going to end up with at the end of the year right. But what about Veronica West. Where do you come down on? This can men and women or or or previous couples be friends men and women for sure. Previous couples does not in my household and in your experience now in my experience. No I feel like as the show explores wars. When there's a break-up there's always some kind of hard feelings you know people are vulnerable and people are hurt if not harboring Aflame for another person and it's complicated and sometimes those vulnerabilities those hurts. They don't come out when you're walking down the street or listening to a record. Sometimes it takes a few drinks sometimes it takes a lot of drinks and then they come bubbling forth exploding forth like a Romantic Volcano Veronica. West is co creator of WHO's High Fidelity Veronica. What a pleasure? Thank you thank you so much for having and Dana Shorts television writer and entertainment reporter Rom Com expert Dana. Thanks to you thanks so much. This conversation was produced by stay. This show Brown and edited by Matthew Simonsen to learn more about them and the rest of the team. visit the website. The one eight DOT ORG is program comes to you from W. Amu. It's part heart of American University in Washington it's distributed by N. P. R.. Until we meet again. I'm todd. Thank you so much for listening. Don't send that taxed. It's never worth it. This is one yeah.

L. Rob Zoe High Fidelity Lou Veronica West Dana Dana writer Zoe Kravitz NPR Jack Black John Cusak Robin Laura Hulu Todd Zwick John cusack Dana Schwartz Desert Desert Island John NPR Danish Schwartz rob Bob Nick
Picture This -  Perfect Strangers Season 1 Episode 2

Dance of Joy: A Perfect Strangers Rewatch Podcast

35:32 min | 2 months ago

Picture This - Perfect Strangers Season 1 Episode 2

"This week on dance of we talk about journalistic ethics. We tell stories about scary birds and we learn about me posing groveling traditions as we re watch season one episode. Two of the eighties hit sitcom perfect strangers. Warm welcome to dance of joy. A perfect strangers rewatch podcast. My name is sofia javid. I'm one of your to host and joining me is my co host and my brother. What's up. I'm run pacis. How's it going. I'm good you know. I'm just over here. Stand in Tall on the wings of my dreams. I'm a little heavy so Dreams are probably gonna crumble. But you know what nothing's gonna stop you now but nothing's gonna stop me now because sometimes the world does look perfect. Nothing marine muffin. Just okay we that horse so you get high. I'm glad to be here episode to season one. Perfect strangers rewatch. The i'm dying to get into. This episode is called picture this and the tv guide description from nineteen eighty. Was the cousins. Aren't speaking after belqis. Refusal to do a favour costs. Larry shot at a celebrity photo and larry's reckoning a career in photojournalism boy. No conflict sounds like a lot of conflict. Remember when you were looking for. The tv guide were always was the tv guide and a couch cushion somewhere that or it was in the bathroom. This was a tv guide. Was the best toilet reading material. Isn't that crazy. You're going to take our net flicks into the bathroom. Yeah no i watch the actual show not only that you want you want the list of shows on the tv. You just press the guide button. Burt is not the tv. Cut anyways this episode picture. This directed by joel zwick written by william basically and michael warren air date first air date april first nine thousand nine hundred eighty six. We are four days away from mike tenth per day here. Oh boy this is a great birthday present. Of course perfect strangers created by dale mcraven. Now so. I listened to the first episode. I loved it but there was something missing in our production. What was missing. Well look we are talking about a sitcom and in the tradition of multi cam sitcom comedies. What do you think could be missing a live studio audience very close. We need a laugh track for this. We're okay here. So i'm going to kind of play this like a like a composer like a symphony orchestra as we recap the episode. But i have three levels all right. Let's put this out. I got the moderate laugh. You said something moderately funny. Okay now this. One for the punchier jokes. A big joe never do that ever again. And then the physical and then no then. I got the one where you get like the old. He didn't say that all right so with that good stuff. So let's Get into the opening of a episode to that again opens at ritz thrift shop. Weird store other. They work it and we opened the show with A very grumpy. Of course always grumpy mr twinkies city. And he's complaining about the elderly and the handicapped. Of course early sabella is s. The he doesn't like apple or handicap. People they get in his way just mark character building here in episode Dive right into a cousins can marry joke because balch he comes in late. He's always late and gives the story of him. Getting taking advantage of this is going to be a theme this episode. He helped us all eighty walk at tv. Ninety three blocks and helped install it and went on the roof and got up at got attacked by birds. And there's some really funny lines by bronson pinchot in this little story. Well before we get there it turns out that the the old lady didn't even by the tv from their shop which hey there like balcony. You got an advantage Yes welcome you know. He'd just random old lady with a tv that needed to be carried ninety three blocks. You just got here. He just got to the country. Cut him some slack. So here's where we get our first cultural reference of the show of this episode balcony. Telling the about how he had to climb up to the rooftops. Install this television antenna for this old lady. And when he got to the roof there were pigeons everywhere and they were coming toward him to peckham and first of all he goes i don. I didn't like that visited patch. I don't like that. And then here's the reference that i'll admit i had to look up here. We go first then the old lady had to drag me off the roof like tippi hedren talking about it. I don't know pal key. You see today. Though i didn't i didn't know either. I seen the movie the birds which is what they're talking ding ding ding need. The that is the correct reference Tippi hedren was natalie k also known as tippi. Hedren was an american actress. Animal rights activists is. I should say is she still around. She's thorough and a former fashion model and she of course was in alfred. Hitchcock's the birds. And that's where this rat ain't got attacked by birds. They'll tell you the story about watching the birds at our house. Do you remember this. Noyau talent the birds. First of all great alfred hitchcock movie and it made more creepy in the fact that there is no music in this movie. Movies have a score. Yeah this is silent except for bird screeches and it just makes the movie super creepy so i think it was a teenager. We have furnished basement where there's a door and there's a part where the laundry machine is right so i watched this movie. I'm not. I'm not kidding. Two movies over. I'm freaked out sufficiently. I go into the unfinished part to the laundry to do laundry and there is a live bird. That somehow got stuck in there. I feel like we often had bird stuck in that basement. That happened more than one. Did it have to happen right. After i saw this movie a studio audience can laugh at me because i was i was peeing my aunt's anyway. So there's your first i reference ultimately the point is offer larry to give balcony stop being so nice to everyone balcony something he will take a literally and then larry gets a phone call. And it's his friend. Gus who works at a hotel in town and gus is giving them a hot tip on where to get a hot photograph of dolly parton with a man who is not her husband double pulse a reference and saw alert belco immediately starts shaking his shoulders and hips to nine to five and singing nine to five. And we lear you know. Of course larry wants. He's a photo journalist. He's trying to get a piece sold. But i think it's interesting dolly parton like i think. She got big after nine to five movies. She was of course. They country music star before but mainstream. I i only know dolly parton because of nine to five i feel. I don't know i'm not. I'm not super into country music. But i feel like she's always been a big name in any case. Larry leary's all excited. He's you know it's it's mark linn baker at his frantic best and he says i'm this is going to be my big break. I'm going to be a crack. Photojournalist which sets balcony up for the first linguistic bulky is a whole pa some covering the baptism he says and he gets so proud of this because he says someday i will say there goes my cousin larry. He's the best photograph around the world. And you know why because you're cracked because that's a good Cut to back at the apartment. Bulky is watching. Tv and he's watching. Let's make a deal because he's like. The car is behind door number two yelling at the tv while he's showing something and larry enters dejected Did not get the photo. And this i thought was really interesting here. We go nine hundred eighty six. They are getting into a conversation. A discussion but the ethics of 'paparazzi photo journalism balch very bothered by the fact that leary wants to get into dolly parton business. He says why don't you just let her be. It's you know. Give her impeding on her privacy. To which larry says in america a famous person gives up their right to privacy. Well there's he'd never get favor he's like. This is journalism. Larry but i just i don't know i thought even that is very very. That's a heavy subject that they're Tried to balance here succumb and it is a theme that carries on through the rest of this episode. However right here we have this brief little aside seen in the kitchenette of the apartment as they're having this conversation. Larry goes to the fridge and brings out elements of what seems to be a very eighties bachelor meal. It's like this is delicious. I d of sliced white brand and some only on a couple of cans of soda generic cola. Hey what else do you get your carbs your protein right there. You got a little bit sugar or caffeine. Jump start your midday there and in case we forgot that balconies a foreigner very new to our lands. We have this little moment. Where larry pops the top of his can of soda and bulky jumps. It's a great reaction and the look. Larry faces eyes are wide open. He's like just all stiff. The physical nature. It's because you'd how you did that. And larry says it's just a popped up. Can you've never seen these before. He says no. I want to try it. And he tries it and then he goes. Now how do i close up close but just the jump up jump back shares go flying. It's so good now. We got to mention you know throughout this balcony. The first time. Larry mentioned part and having an affair. Bulky is so good hearted he will not believe it he does not want dolly parton is cheating but just the pardon would never do that. I thought that was very interesting. That even like her brother brother. He's just like he wants to believe. Dolly parton is pure and she is pure dolly parton hundred percent pure enter the door knocks and enter linda. Who is linda. We don't actually know who linda is. She just comes in the door with a giant enormous dog called gorbachev so it just they just set her up like a friend or a neighbor but definitely someone who larry might have some interest in. Well she's a flight attendant. She's leaving for a flight and kind of taken advantage of larry. Now asking him to watch gorbachev which the eighties reference. Maybe there was a big red spot on his head. I don't know maybe that's why he's called garbage giant. I don't know about dogs but do you know what kind of dog that's a. That's a great huge great. Very great dane us. It's a great great. He's a good looking boy through. I was like oh look at look at that big boy. You could write these dogs but this is the first appearance of linda. Larry stewardess friend. And if you notice it's worth noting watched the show jennifer marianne when they are introduced in season two. They are also airline stewardesses as well which is so funny. Because i wonder if like in one thousand nine hundred eighty six there. Was this common trope. That like stewardesses were these hot women that ever since i mean even in the fifties in the sixties there was there is this like call them stewart attendants but yeah the pan am girls like the pan am girls are real hot. It's that's always been kind of thing. I guess eighty six. They didn't have stewards or male flight attendants. They really wouldn't have so she leaves. She says oh. I'm going on this flight. Thank you so much for. And larry obviously had forgotten but you know wants to get what this linda woman. So he's like oh of course no problem and she leaves. And larry puts the dog in the bedroom and bulky says are you not getting of by. Linda love it. He immediately calls out. Larry dude and then larry's like look. This is different I'm hoping we can bond later. And he goes. Oh you went to mind many. This is a great bit. They do where they're by. Yeah yeah and they go back and forth a buildup and it all ends in this. Let that we're talking about where she doesn't know what they're talking about by. They pretend that he does. Nearly two minute nudge nudge wink wink. Or they're both in on it. But then we find out has no idea what they're talking about what they're nudging and winking about another ism i. What are we talking about. In the meantime becky is sewing tweaking. Said he's pants. What do you do about. So larry calls about selling twin cities pants and now is he's trying to give them some tough love larry helping bulky say no and is that great bit on the cellphone or he's like stand up yourself dougie states up. Sit down down. Good is learning to say no and enjoying it. Well then then they sit down on the couch. And larry literally gets him to say no no no and tries to trick him like in the middle of this lesson and saying no be like. Would you mind getting me the mustard and sure wait. You almost got me but by the end of this is literally screaming. No no no no mustard. No it's also the first you try to trick bulky lied to us going to say that a lot he gets it and then the phone rings larry gets another tip from gus that he needs to leave right away and linda said gorbachev gotta get walked by ten or it's good to be a disaster larry except balcony now is not going. Take take advantage of. And the whole thing backfires larry right here right because larry has to leave. Because gus is like dolly parton leaving. La pardon just laughed. You have to get down here to follow her. And so larry grabs his. Jackie says do me a favor. Walk the dog for me will ya. And he's about to leave and balcony just looks at him. He's like nope he says. Full using you're talking to somebody nice that again there you go. That's the first you're gonna get out about of many more i in episode two I love it back. You takes off his citizenship class. Yeah so we find out. He's taking citizenship classes. I this is the very fast. He must only be in the country for like a couple of weeks at this point. He's he's down. He's down to become a citizen. I liked this initiative back. He's very very immersed. And so what we don't see but we'll find out later as a bit. Leery then has to take the dog with him. Yes is mad. Because it cuts to the next day back at ritz and balki brings Susan lovely head is back. Does she work there. does she work next door. Who knows she lives in the building she also building. I'll get attached. See much are just a couple more appearances. But larry is so mad about he is not talking and he explains that yes he had to take the dog and it screwed up his whole stake out and the grape is after he's done. He's blogging and blueberries like limping away and understand belkis. Sonae even sweetie doesn't understand why larry's not talking to him him the cold shoulder and he brings susan. He's like why isn't he talking to me. All i did was what he told me to do instead. No no belkis got a point. He listened to belqis advice. So this is confusing. Larry's advice right. Listen to larry voices confusing cuts to back at the apartment. Bookies made him riposting food again. The first mention of fudo names yet. We'll get to the named foods this is just. He cooked him opposing dinner and lariat in silence and stealing. I love the line where he's like cousin a talk to me about this. Larry makes the time outside. He's got a break for this. I don't wanna talk about it. You know back tacky starts to get pissed. Yeah he gets upset and he says you think you know about being mad you don't even know and he mentioned the kiss of silence and he's like now you're making me bad. And then he gives him the me post kiss of silence he pulls his hair back and kisses him on the forehead. Which larry doesn't like it all. And then here we see a first of a recurring line on larry's part where he comes back out of the kiss. It gets right in his face with his neurotic his neurotic look and he goes never ever do that again. And that's from. Larry many more times as the show goes on yes. Bell gives larry the kiss of silence. Larry walks away and the phone rings again.