18 Episode results for "Zia"
Jason David Frank (JDF) in store signing at Zia Comics October 10 2020
"You. Guys I'm sure you saw. Was Up the other day was J. F. Jason David Frank. The great original green power. Ranger. White. Ranger coming to Zia Comics for an in store signing. I. Promise you a video to do love explanation was going to be happening. That's what happen October handsome have plenty of time to go and get whatever item you want signed by him or maybe just want a picture that. He will be Zia comics. This is not. A. COMECON is just a a an appearance by Jason David Frank that being said, Jason David Frank will be in LAS cruces inside comics. October tenth starting at noon Twelve PM. We're going to practice social distancing how we're going to do that because I know there's a lot of people always line up. There are going to is going to be a ticketed event and by ticket, it's going to be free you come inside Zia comics. there will be a cost associated with. An autograph or a photo with Jason. David Frank. Don't know the prices on that. A lot of depends on what you want sign how many signatures. So the telegram map you come in to get your number then you can go about your day you know go outside enjoy mainstream maybe go next door to one of the two breweries and nothing to drink when it's getting close to your time in line, you'll receive a text telling you hey, we're five away from your number. He might want to start coming back and getting line to come inside the comics you do have to wear a mask you have to wear the mass correctly covering your mouth and nose. And it has to be an approved face covering. I don't want Mesh screen or anything like that. You will be turned away. If you don't wear an appropriate mask covering your mouth and nose if you don't have something of your own, you want signed there will be some photographs that they bring with them you can. Get signed in is included in the price the autograph. August. Now you have about a month to get all your stuff together. Get prepared asks for the day off is a Saturday. Come. Get your ticket will announce tickets are given away. Yet will announce when that's going to happen, your ticket like I said. Hold your space in line you don't have to stay here all day. We don't want you saying they're all day. No crowds were like allow in. You know a few groups at a time into the the rumor J., 'cause that because we want to keep him healthy the telegram APP downloaded you get that downloaded. Now that's what we're GONNA use. Let you know your turn is coming up come in get ready. Get in line no physical contact no handshakes hugs fist-bump st must wear mask properly cover your nose and your mouth. It must be approved mask I don't WanNa say the fish ned tight mask. If you can't follow the rules you will be asked to leave there will be more information as we get closer to the date I just want to give this little this brief intro. So everybody knows what to expect. It's not gonNA be a big mass gathering. We're going to try to keep it Lido's minimal people as we can at one time and let's stay safe and stay healthy. Mervyn died.
The Market Is Simply Today's Reality #1071
"Today the market is simply today's reality. A bit of a riff on capitalism today inspired by the gray box code and who says the marketplace is not wise the marketplace is really just a group of consumers saying that this is what I want. Now, these are my current wage and needs it's very selfish. It's very self-centered. There's no Grand Vision or grand Direction a play here. It's really about the now. There's no real sense of time or proportion in the marketplace. It's all about what I want and what I want now x a few hundred million billion people depending on how you want to scale your market. And for those people like me who tend to say let the market decide that's an interesting perspective and it it's when I read it it kind of gave me pause to say well, yeah, Okay, maybe the market isn't the answer to everything. What we need is some direction to the market some sort of guide and some sort of parameters maybe some sort of boundaries and borders way in which the market should operate and that needs to be said by some sort of leadership which has a has an end goal has a moral compass. I guess if you life and I think it's an interesting perspective also for those people who are trying to sell their products and services now because in that case it is really all about the market but you might have a product at the market doesn't get sick because they are all about now and today they don't want to think about tomorrow. But if you're selling something to people that is great for their future, then you've got a bit of a problem. Then there's a bit of an imbalance between what the market really really wants and what you are trying to sell and that's a challenge doesn't mean that your product is wrong. It just means that maybe your product is is too early perhaps or maybe too late wage. It's not addressing the current needs of the market. So then it comes back to you needing to educate the market or alternatively wait till the market catches up because it's possible that the market will catch you eventually wage but that again comes down to timing. So I think understanding that a Marketplace is just purely self-centered selfish wants and needs of individuals x o x amount of people. That's actually what a market is. It's not some Grand Visionary Dynamic Beast that can actually that has a conscience or has a direction. It is Back Garden says a bit stupid. What do you reckon? Let me know in the comments below. All righty that is it for today. I do. Thank you for your time, and I will be back again tomorrow. Zia
Meet Zia Zaman
"Thursday December twenty six. Welcome to market foolery. I'm Chris Hill. Happy Boxing Day puppy at a nice Christmas. Something a little different on. Today's show. I want to introduce you to someone. His name is Zia's Amman. He is an entrepreneur. He's a fellow at the Aspen Institute and I got connected to him by my colleague colleague. Brian Richards Brian had met him on a business trip to Singapore. And he's a smart interesting guy. Who is curious about the world? I read read a little bit about him. Is One of those people whose current success is not surprising to me and any future success that he has is not going to be surprising either. They're in the same way that we look at businesses and think to ourselves. I WANNA keep my eyes on that and see where it goes having sat down Zia that that's how I feel about him I. I'm interested to see where this guy's career goes because I know it's going to be somewhere very interesting and potentially a game changing in the world of business. It turns out that he and I were in Boston. At the same time during our college years he was at mit anyway. I really enjoyed sitting down with him and I hope you enjoy this conversation with Zia Zimin Boston. I mean when you know what it was like coming from main everyone thought it was a strange cold city from people. Or you're like all right. This is nothing. Yeah exactly right. Yeah exactly I mean if you're from Montreal. It's now we're fine. We're fine here first day. It snowed I had some friends from all over the world right Africa Asia. I said just to prove that you will not die. I am going to go out in in my shorts and show you. That's okay I put on like a big jacket and some running shorts. I didn't die five minutes later. I went back in and change but they thought okay. This isn't so bad. I wonder if that's even the case anymore. Like I wonder if people go in this age of information if students going to to a different place with a different climate if they are at all surprised by it because I understand it a little bit and back in the nineteen eighties. I had a couple of friends. I YEAR A B C or from California and they appeared to be astonished that it was called in Boston. I think it still happens. a they really let me tell you why it's just the information about the cold is all academic the information that your nerves tell you about the cold is viscerally real when I got there and I don't think there is a feeling of cold now that I live in eighty six degree heat every single day that That you can replicate. You just can't so when I bring my daughter to skiing in Japan she feels the cold and says it's something that I like but I've never felt it before. Never right so I think it's it's Sir reality. Check for everyone they bracing for it. And then it happens. It's a little bit analogous to I've had conversations with people over the past year or two to about technology and I find that particularly when it comes to consumer technology. People who are involved in creating the technology are very very excited and rightfully so if they're the ones building they're very excited about the specs and all of the technical aspects and they are tempted to tell you all all using all this jargon and I have to as gently as possible. Tell them you realize the technology you're talking about doesn't hit people on the level you're talking talking about it. Hits them in some ways on an emotional level or or just on a on a gut level. And you know why I was talking to a guy about this. Did you know this new system. And how excited and he was using all these phrase all of these techniques phrases and I frankly did not understand it all and I said you know most people think thing about Wi fi in very binary ways either it works. They love it and they're happy if it's slow or doesn't work they get frustrated. Yeah and I think you're right that the the cold is one of those things where it's like. Yeah you can read all you want about the cold but until you've been in like that bone chilling you walk outside and hits you instantly then. Yeah you're they were born into it Around tech think more engineers. I've met recently Use Design thinking and they think about the customer in terms of what what they're doing but back to Wi fi. That's great won. A T shirt I once saw in Thailand said and I quote life is what happens between Wi fi signals. And when you're traveling backpacking around Southeast Asia. Spotty WIFI fundamentally. You're just spending a lot of time on your phone. I'm not enjoying whatever wherever you are and so life is what happens when you're looking at your phone so before we get to what you're doing now take me back to. Mit Euratom eighty. You're studying engineering studying this. I'm studying math in many ways. I was in the Electrical Engineering Engineering Computer Science Department. But the professor that I was spending a lot of time with Bostonian guy named Dick Larson. He introduced me to probability theory theory and the idea that there are operations research problems or probability problems in an urban setting and he called that course urban. Or and what we were really good. At is basically applying mathematics and from the sophomore year onwards I started to tinker with will. What does this problem look look like in in terms of math and obviously ensuring the brakes? We talk a little bit about baseball because it was all the rage. It's a very easy easy to analyze sport with the confrontations and with the the at the aspect of how you can capture data so I remember one January when we were going to seminars. Somebody actually claimed that a triple was more valuable to a team that home run and everyone laughed and we looked at his math and he claim that a triple keeps the rally going. And therefore you basically Have more runs as a result of a triple than homerun so little things like that were the beginning of of course money ball and all the other things that have come since then sabermetrics etc.. I spent time in thinking about the airline industry. I I love to travel and the airline industries just classic Optimization problem you got these expensive planes you've got passengers you have to try to maximize how much you're gonNA charge for them. And and I even spent a summer figuring out how to do that in In Montreal for one of the airlines so all kinds of cool problems of were what I was thinking about outside of the the coursework. What did you think you were going to do? Did you have an idea of a dream job at that point. I really didn't in fact I I don't have regrets but I I just didn't have the exposure to all the different ways in which probability affected life I think if sports management and thinking about The movies where things things that I always come back to Is there a way to analyze. What film or script will end up being successful singles with with scouting players? But I don't think I thought that that would be a career but I knew it had to do something around this. So the guy who had the theory about the triple. It was part of his theory. Obviously it's a mathematical theory. But was part of his theory. Did it have anything to do with Emotion or Jesse the pressure that would be put on the on the pitcher because well I still have a runner on base. That sort of thinking about the the paper that you worked on recently about hockey and sort of like. When do you pull the goalie because it seems like you can analyze data? But it's I'm assuming it's harder to factor in emotional state of mind of the people who are engaged in the game itself back in those days. No one thought about that. There was no such thing as behavioral economics. I think I think we really looked at the data. Because that's all we had to analyse and what had to be true if if you really think about it is that a triple was worth more than one run and because otherwise The hormone always works out to be more valuable. I think the data probably hopefully showed released. It is at the he had probably showed that the coach was less likely to pull the pitcher off the mound and indeed having somebody in your line of sight if you're a right handed pitcher can be very distracting And it changes the dynamic of of the game right And most times if you get a triple of you're gonNA come in If it's less than two outs of course so I think there's some reason to believe that the data yielded that but I don't think that particular researcher really got into the into the analysis of what's on the brain more. What we did is we looked for human explanations after the data told us something? And that's that's an interesting way to look at. Even this problem lem round pulling the goalie. Let's let's start with an. Brian sends me this link. I read this paper and it was fantastic and you gotta ask them about it. So so how do you go. What's the origin story of the pulling the goalie? Cher DEMOC paper that you wrote right so I've written two and I'm GonNa talk a little bit about both of them Chris so I grew up of course in Montreal watching hockey the first real too long. I think it's certainly is the first few memories. I have are literally of trading hockey cards watching hockey night in Canada on a black and white. TV and four Stanley Cups In the seventies pretty lucky but in fact in many ways unlucky those little young to appreciate them and while watching hockey. I thought I had a reasonable reasonable understanding of how the flow of the game. And you send tend to think if you're from Montreal that SORTA capital of of of hockey so when I went to Mit I start thinking about baseball and at some point I started reading about this problem That was when you pull the goalie the end of the game and because I was rooted in. Oh you pull it one minute before. Because that's what coaches do I was surprised that somebody in the seventies a guy named ERC had said No. You gotTa pull it earlier five minutes earlier and I remember reading the paper when I'd had enough math in me and said you know that can't be right because the way they estimated. The arrival of a goal in hockey game was like the arrival of a bus at a bus stop. That's famously what they call. A plus owned distribution the puck could go into the net at any time independent of when it last went into that. That's why you get bunch buses bunched up together and so what he did or did it was he basically used really smart data. Say All right. It could get a goal at any time. Let's figure out what happens when you have an empty net goal versus a A goal with even strength and just to set it up. People don't understand hockey. This is the problem. You're losing by one goal at the end of an NHL game and you're GONNA lose any way As the time is running out so the coach might say I'm GonNa pull the goalie out in favor of an extra attacker and what that does is it puts a little bit more pressure on the opposing. HOSING team's goal. It increases the probability of you scoring by about three times but it also increases the probability of them scoring by about seven or eight times but at some point. If you don't try you'RE GONNA end up losing the game anyway. So the question is doesn't matter if you lose by one goal or to or to write In the crowd gets a little bit more more excitement too so I think we were trying to do is to say look you know. Play it safe. Maybe thirty seconds before the end of the game. Let's pull the goalie and see what happens. And the started. Apparently in the thirties But basically it's been going on for some time famously The Russians did this Tikhonov. Who is the famous coach? Said I'm never going to pull the golly. That's ridiculous so for years and they had like a twenty year winning streak so he certainly did. Yeah but not against the best Canadians. But that's different. So what we we looked at was all right. Is there a way to to figure out. What is the optimal time? Meaning when is it equivalent for you to pull the goalie really towards the end of the game Versus not politically. That's quarter the the crossover point and could figure this out using the plus model and I looked at it and said you know what this this doesn't take into account the flow of a hockey game because indeed the puck could go into the net at any time but I like to think of the flow of a hockey game as something that goes back back and forth with the Puck so there are various states to the game. And so when you turn on the TV and you're kind of late the first thing you look for is of course the PUCK. Where is it and and if it's in the neutral zone you don't think twice about it but if it's in the offensive zone you leaned forward and if the defensive zone you get a little nervous and the reason is he can't score if you're not in the offensive zone and the old Expression in Haughey's you can't score if you don't shoot so what I said was look they're seven states to the game and that's what we call a Markov chain. It's a birth and death chain and I estimated the probability of going from the neutral zone to the offensive zone to the point where you get a shot to the point where you actually Lee score and then back and forth to the other side and what that does is it basically helps you estimate what would be the optimal time to pull the goalie. Only if you're in the neutral zone but also what happens when you're in the offensive zone and when you're in the defensive zone so I wrote up this paper after I'd graduated Took a little while in two thousand and one and the magazine was called chance. And I WANNA shout out to all the people a chance for basically following up and chances the one that's has been publishing this paper for other authors for quite some time so I forgot about that was two thousand and one Chris and then so one day as their rebuttal. I'm ought to go back. Yes or no. Interestingly I moved to Asia didn't watch as much NHL. As I'd like Hobson do as well as well but I ended up getting a call from one of my friends who went to mit with me and he was really angry. I said why are you so angry. And he said I was just listening to the Malcolm. Glad glad well revisionist history podcast. And he says that one of his rules for life is pull the goalie and he didn't give credits. I said what do you mean. And he said look this guy no cliff assis wrote a paper in two thousand sixteen and Malcolm did an entire episode on it. You gotTA listen to it. But I'm furious. I didn't think much I sat down. Whatever right it's been many years so I finally get to my My favorite podcast APP Download Malcolm in a start listening to it. And it's a brilliant brilliant podcast because it takes the problem and goes a lot further than what us in math geeks would do and it talks about two people cliff. Fastness and Aaron Brown and cliff runs a multi billion dollar Hedge Fund which is a quote fund and he and Erin are apparently apparently disagreeable people according to Malcolm. And it's kind of the core to this problem the pull the goalie problems and the Brown model which I call the ABC model title basically uses some new techniques. Some new data dynamic programming to calculate the optimal time to pull the goalie and what they find is basically basically the same thing that I found in two thousand one that it should be about six minutes before the end of the game. What's also interesting? Is that in the paper. They they cite my paper twice in a very favorable way. They said you should look at this. I'm on paper to figure out the state and it would be great to be able to see how are data corroborates. 'cause we almost got the exact same result and when I really thought about it they were using the same assumption. That is a state nonspecific. They didn't really care where the puck was in calculating their model as it brilliant model and it works really well and and the the the rules have changed a little bit. They optimize for points because there's an overtime loss cost now but for all intents and purposes They just refresh the model and got a lot of airplay with Malcolm which is of course something. That's really interesting and and So I looked at it and I said well. What am I going to do? Dan and I looked at it. Some more and I realized something of course I could do. I could update the ABC. Be Model using the same Markov idea and I love the fact. That Markov is a wonderful hockey name. Right it is I mean. He used to be a defenseman for the the penguins and obviously further Russian national team. So Markov fits very well for hockey and for math so I basically do. What Agnes Brown suggest? Which would be nice to see what happens if you made the state dependent but I realized one thing and I admit it which is my math was rusty and you take a little time off so that the interesting thing was? Maybe math wasn't rusty but the best way to do this was Coating it in Python and I needed a thought partner so I went to the national the University of Singapore and this guy named Hongming loves doing sports stuff and I went to mit with one of his professors. And we got together. And we we coded I did and he was the lead programmer and I was thinking about the math and effectively. What we were able to do is to modify that Ashton's Brown model to fit with The idea that the PUCK can flow from the offensive state to the defensive. Have you reached out to play ball with the new paper so partly this is is an attempt to say. Let's let's talk about this so effectively. What we found which we first thing you do is to replicate the essence Brahmana which we did and then we said let's start to Do Two things first is of course figure out how it changes if the PUCK is in the offensive zone in the defensive zone and then the second thing I started to think about was the coach himself or herself their mentality changes because of the crowd and because the fact that. This isn't just something where you can press a button. And the golden gets pulled view ever seen an ice hockey goalie. TRY TO SKATE Forty meters to the bench. It's Kinda painful because they've got a bunch a little awkward right. It's a little awkward so effectively. What we figured out is even if you pull the goalie because you have an offensive cajon faceoff you can reverse that decision and the way you reverse? That decision is that you take that goalie and you put him back into the goal. Perhaps ops if you lose possession of the PUCK in the offensive zone make sense right someone for main so the problem is you can't do that when the puck in play. You GotTa wait for the next face off so what we did was we figured out. We'll just how frequently to face offs occur and luckily it was very very consistent. It's every sixty seconds so this idea of penalty or Timing of which. The coach has to live with his or her decision so the two bits of information that we found is that first of all little bits of of insight are incredibly valuable and the reason is it de risks a risky situation because what is pull the goalie. It's a situation where you're making a desperate move that increases the volatility of the whole situation and for the investment people out there. I think you've you've heard it Described as follows if you could increase the volatility of a call option as it nears the end of its term. Because you're so far out of the money it's a good idea because the chances are higher that will go in the money. That's exactly the pull the goalie problems so effectively. What we we're learning is it's you have a little bit of information about how risky the situation is? It gives the coach a little bit of air cover to say hey. The PUCK is in the offensive zone. It makes sense to the crowd that I can pull the goalie. Because it increases the chances of me score being scoring Against that goal well and if we lose control the puck over the boards up with the goalie back in the crowd can accept that so the first adage that we came up with was that we can dear risk risky situations with the particular bits of information. And that makes sense intuitively the second point. Is that the PUCK. tuck transfers between these zones very very quickly right it will stay in the offensive zone for about ten seconds and therefore this little bit of insight site is fleeting right. You really don't know after ten seconds. What zone the PUCK will be in? And you gotta live with your decision for sixty seconds so that balances things things out so when the coach can justify that because he has that advantage he has permission to be bolder but he has to basically live with this decision and you know pull. The goalie to me is about courage right and I think the question that Malcolm puts forward in which is really insightful. Chris is what happens if you have a violent robber in your home with you and your family like what do you do. Because it's socially unacceptable for you to run to get help because in case your your your kids get Get hurt so what I'm basically saying being is if you can lock your kids in a panic room for some period of time and keep them safe it gives you the air cover to go out and get help. I'll give you a couple of other examples. Apple's pretend like you're a studio executive at a pretty small label And you need to improve your results or else you're gonNA get fire right. You have one last shot so you take a risk to do an indie movie with a first time screenwriter director and you think this is the only chance I have left to actually have a low budget A high box office yield movie. And what you're basically doing. You're pulling the goal you take your saying. I'm going to throw a caution to the wind. If I could tell you you can get de risk. The situation by saying Meryl Streep's GonNa play the lead. Well it makes it a lot more palatable to say I'm going to take that risk and then the studio executives say okay if you got Maryland. That's fine the same goes with an investment manager towards the end of the year. You're not having a great year and you know that either you're not GonNa get a bonus or you're gonNA get fired. You might want to increase the volatility of the basket of assets that you hold because effectively you're gonNA lose your job anyway And therefore you might as well take a disagreeable disagreeable position. Because it's the right thing to do and it's the same ideas coach you're going to lose anyway and The last thing would be a CEO if from a management perspective affective either near the end of his tenure or. She feels like she needs something blockbuster to pull her out of the doldrums. The analyst will do something incredibly risky like acquirer appear Excetera and I think that that basically repeats itself over and over again. I just like the way that the pull the goalie problem for all intents and purposes sometimes you need courage but maybe more importantly if you can find little ways that what your courage can be justified. That's a good thing It's better than basically just making a blind bet that makes sense absolutely and it it goes goes to a couple of couple of things. One is the old adage from the mutual fund industry and this this example doesn't doesn't really hold much water certainly over the last five years or so but for a good couple of decades it was absolutely true that the old adage that no mutual fund manager ever got fired for buying shares. VM because it was the stable blue-chip Reno was a tech business in. And and no one's GONNA no one's Gonna a knock you for buying. IBM even if that stock doesn't do well the other thing you just reminded me of is An article I read recently about the economics of the film industry and in particular the economics economics of horror and how the part of the reason there are so many horror movies made one is the economics of horror. Movies are fantastic. They're low budgeted. That don't require large scripts. They don't require stars. It's also also away for first time directors to cut their teeth because they get the freedom to do whatever they want in a way but really it's it's a big part of it is just the economics are so good 'cause horror translates into every language. That's exactly the point back to the coach. which is it is easy for them to say I pull the goalie? The minute left the PUCK didn't bounce our way and and everyone's going to give him a pass right. He'll say oh. We gave it one hundred ten percent. We just didn't get the shot that we needed at the end of the game and you're basically buying IBM over and over again What Absence Brown found is that over the course of one season right? It's not just that one game but over the course of one season it would accrue through four more points in the standings which is material and therefore if you look at it any individual decision. It's easy in the press to basically basically say all right. I'm judging someone by that individual decision but over the long period of time it matters whether you make the playoffs or finished first so it's easier to actually. It requires choirs courage to do what's unpopular on the days. That doesn't make sense. I play bridge too and this doesn't happen in bridge if you basically take a finesse and you win fifty five percent of the time if we don't win the Queen's on the wrong side no one gives you time because there's no media there's no press but you always take the thing that's going to over the long run yield a better result but coaches are different. It's it's a media business right Hockey and I love the idea that if you think about the switching costs and one of the most interesting parts I think of of the paper. There is the fact that that goal. He can't go back into the net quickly. And for those who like to watch soccer or The original football the way soccer works is of course goals come at a significantly lower rate but you may have seen at the end of a cup game. The goalie will then rudge to the Opposing a penalty box for a corner kick because the goals are typically pretty pretty tall and the logic is exactly the same but the difference between the goalie in hockey and the golden soccer is pretty clear and anything you can think about It's a lot further for the goalie early to get back to the goal in a soccer game than it is even though they're not weighed down with all the equipment but I think that fact is that as as true as that is. The soccer ball doesn't travel nearly as fast And as accurately as a hockey puck the and the keeper can run back reasonably reasonably quickly and doesn't have to do anything in terms of equipment to be able to save the shot Back in his own penalty box so the switching cost for a soccer goalie. Holy is really really small and so if we change the Swiss switching cost for our hockey problem what effectively means is that you would pull the goalie even earlier and then put the goalie back when you could. Because there's there's really no penalty associated with it so if you find yourself in a risky situation relation where you have the ability to use an insight even though it's fleeting but the switching cost is relatively low. Then you should be a tinkerer occur but I think in reality. There are switching costs when you try to get back into the house. The robber might get you The management ask why you keep doing the same horror movie and therefore I think you have to balance both which is the insights are fleeting. But if you're switching cost can manage then you want to tinker if the switching costs are high then it's GonNa look a whole lot more like like a situation where it doesn't really matter. I've got one eye on the clock. So let me Let me move off of the paper for a second. What are when you're not writing papers about hockey probabilities? What's Your Day job? Yeah I I love traveling and right now I'm in The DC area because my fellow. Hello at the Aspen Institute and thinking about social change in a broader context We think about not just shareholder value for the companies companies that were a part of but also stakeholder value and me and my peers are thinking about issues of sustainability circular economy and for me in particular its inclusion and inclusion in the industry that I'm in financial services is about. How do you serve the next two billion people so it kind of combines a few of the things I like to do The tech side is things like blockchain and other tech helped lower the cost and reduce the friction for people to get access detect isolate. We were talking about before the people aside is I spent a lot of time in Asia in developing markets. You know people don't want complicated products. They want to buy over the mobile phone. They want the product to be simple and easy to understand and and From a sustainability point of view. It always helps to have more people involved so I. I like to combine the travel. The business and the technology in both my day job as well as in some of my outside pursuits to love to think about these kinds of problems. Where do you see financial services going in the next three to five years and you can take that in any direction because obviously you take a phrase like financial services it can apply applied to insurance it can apply to investing buying a home buying a car any aspect of it is there? Where do you think we're going? And and what's the part that most interest you. I think we were already in that trend. where it's getting democratized? I think we see that the United States but that trend hasn't completely happened all all around the world The future is already here. Just hasn't been evenly distributed yet. William Gibson famously said the second point I think I'd make is that I think financial services in some ways going to get embedded into other journeys so while you're doing something else. There will be a moment of risk or they'll be an opportunity to make a payment and that little little bit that micro service that micro journey financial services will become a little less friction full because it's part of another another greater journey and I think we're already seeing the the smart financial services companies are embedding themselves into our lives. Making it easy to get in and get out as opposed to thinking. We're going to build this big cathedral on say you've got to come in and put in your money we're making deconstructing the banking insurance industries and saying when you need it Will be there for you. I'm GonNa make it as simple as possible. Also I think that's a big trend. In of course inclusion. I think that there are literally billions of people who have not used financial services because it's too complex or it is that cathedral mentality tally and yet every single person on the planet is used a mobile phone a for example At some point in fact the United Nations said that is a basic human right in twenty twenty to have access to a smartphone More than running water and more than of course financial services so I think financial services get embedded become simpler and It attack will do good for for more people. It has been interesting to watch over the last twenty five years just in the investing world you know the destruction that starts with go back twenty five thirty years in Charles Schwab saying you know what we actually think. People shouldn't be paying hundreds of dollars for a single a single trade of a stock. We're GONNA make that fifty dollars and you know. Of course there were naysayers and then you have even further disruption with the trades trades in. TD AMERITRADE world coming along and it does seem like to your point about Distribution and democratization sation that disruption can be exciting or terrifying depending on your point of view. If you're an entrenched large successful company then gene disruption is not necessarily something that you're interested in and I think you're right about Sort of the opportunities in terms of all the different transactions. Go on but it will be interesting to watch how some of the bigger players behave because for some of them they like the current model. I love companies that want to innovate over and over again And the reason is even though you might be an incumbent or large Stakeholder or beneficiary of the existing model if you take the point of view of I need to serve my customer Let them do the famous job to be done than for example. An insurance when you Ask people what do you want insurance for life insurance. They will say a live a longer happier thicker fuller life and in many ways The more innovative company is the one that thinks about that customer and reinvents products and services and experiences with the brand that they currently have to make life easier and allow people to reach their goals. And so I think that it could come from small companies but great large companies disrupt themselves without getting overly personal personal. How do you invest your money? I usually use passive index funds my wife works for a bank so we also work with them. Sap Be and it works out well to be able to do a little bit of both I think that I've been burned by the promise of. Em Emerging markets more times times than not But I spent a few years merging markets it. It certainly has. And I I think I recognize why when those clear Path to growth in non on emerging markets. But just being out there you see just how much potential there is But I I like the idea of having both the active and the passive Given the travel you do. What is something that everyone who goes to? Singapore should do or see and and If you could share because I don't do a ton of travel wanted to travel tips just sort of like it could be anything it could be sort of your strategy for dealing dealing with jetlag anyway. I'm I'm always looking for any kind of tip I can get so. I love Singapore. I think it's been fantastic home for me for nine years and yet one of the things that people say about Singapore is That one of the best parts is how close it is to other places and that's not an insult because it is really interesting part of the world in fact going back to math if you were to draw the smallest smallest radius circle on the planet that covers half the population That circle would have as at its center her a place in Myanmar very far from Singapore and with that flight would be that diet that radius would be about three and a half or four hour flight so when you think about it you the planet half the population of the planet is within a four hour flight of Singapore. So you can see everything so the tip I would I would give is Think about a place that you've never thought of before and talk to your icon a classic friends Who who do interesting things and there are some wonderful books and photographic exhibits that basically This is what got me interested in Bhutan. Chris that took a photograph of people people in their homes with everything their home taken out so that you could see what they owned and I remember going to looking at a variety of different countries and this Swiss Wisconsin in Bhutan with the Asian face people with that incredibly colorful clothes and A different set of things in their house fascinated me so in two thousand. I went to this country Bhutan before it even really opened up. And and then that Peaked my curiosity and other places like Pakistan which is a really interesting place that gets two lines in our history books around two more And then other places as well. I've been Easter Island recently. and and I guess one of the interesting parts about traveling And basing yourself in Singapore is that you can do a number of different things and how to pick that thing is not just. What did you know your your regular friends? Tell you but was your most iconoclastic Fr- until you is a place that you should go. Someone for jet lag tip as well sorry aaltonen that does work it does work. It resets your clock. This has been great. This is I would love to talk for another hour. But I know we're going to get you into into DC but this has been great. Thank you very much To write a third paper yeah exactly and the fellowship of the Aspen Aspen Institute is that like is there a time for that. Is there like like what is when did that start and windy. You end it convenience Three times over the course of a year we got together in Aspen. We're getting together. And why Maryland and next is going to be somewhere in Long Island in In May but look it's it's minus three Celsius tonight so I don't think they expect November to be this cold old but again Montreal. Your for me right. No you'll be fine This has been great. I really appreciate your time. Hey thanks so much.
Build The Red Team That Could Put You Out Of Business #1033
"Today build the red team that could put you out of business office. But this whole idea of Red Team Versus Blue team is something that originated in the military when they realized that the best way to train to defeat the enemy was to train against them. And so they created the red team whose job it was was to play the role of the enemy and try to defeat you now the same same thing that applies in business you can build a red team whose job it is is to try and put you out of business create the competitor that could actually crush your business and close you down and I reckon at a time like right now lots of people have slowed down a bit right? There's a lot of businesses that are sort of waiting to ramp up again after the various lockdowns and slow downs so, New Jersey, Now I reckon would be a great time to build a red team to try and put you out of business to create the competitor that would put you out of business and it might actually be interesting recruitment strategy to why not maybe try and put it out there as a bit of a project and see the sort of people that come in because the people that can create a red team that could destroy your business that probably the people you want on your side not on the opposition side just a thought already that is it for today. I do think if your time and I will be back again tomorrow. Zia
"Nine lives the debut album from catalysts, grips with infinite possibility and reflect the contemporary Los. Angeles, Jesse. Catalyst is more than a nine piece band. It's a collective producers, composers, musicians, and writers who represent a WHO's food. Los. Angeles. Jazz from. You can listen to the album. Ah, over major music platforms or purchase a copy through band Camp Dot Com. Catalysts Tang. Album. I. I'm Daniel Levin and this is the bio report. Zia biosciences is not a typical contract manufacturing organization. The company uses plants to grow recombinant proteins for biologic therapies to produce a consistent and predictable product Z uses a data intensive approach and gross plants in clean rooms. The end result is highly scalable platform that's cost efficient. We spoke to Jim Wilson C. E. O. of Zia biosciences about the company's approach to produce biologics plants why it's a data intensive process and the advantages it provides over traditional bio manufacturing. JAMF thanks for joining us. Thank you very much Dan. We're going to talk about Zia biosciences its efforts to US plants to produce biologics and nutraceutical, and the absence taken to turn this into a predictable and reliable manufacturers process. Maybe you can begin with making the case for using plants to produce biologics. Sure. Well plants around for over five thousand years medicinal purposes over in Asia and in India plants actually have been part of our human population since the beginning of time and they actually have been proven many many times over and there's numerous a much research about it. To deliver the address, the issues of disease And have the ability to Help. Our population in a much better way than our synthetic counterparts parts do. You grow these plants in a clean room. I imagine people you know envision fields upon fields of of plants but why use a clip rim? Right right. Well, it goes back to I. Think what we want to start with is The it's not just that we grown cleanroom it's a technology platform and the cleanroom is only one part of that. Specific purpose is to answer your question about the cleanroom is when you grow plant in a pathogenic. Free Environment. You have the ability to turn those into plant based medicinal drugs whereas plants they're grown say in a greenhouse or in a warehouse or in the open land run the risk of pathogen clearly Pathogens with them that probably would not be able to be filtered out and it runs a risk to the general public. That's why we grow inside a game. You mentioned the technology platform, you build a platform. Rather. Data intensive. What's the range of data collected and how to use this produce plants that produce biologics? Well. So let's back up and talk about the platform. There's two parts of the platform and I'll answer that question in in in the second part. The first part is the physical part. The plants are grown inside and ice. Oh, seven cleanroom. The second part is the data science side where we. Hook Up. Over thirty parameters thirty centers. Inside that room that collect everything. Some of them are normal that you would think of, which would be Ph temperature humidity but some you may not under a would never think about the. The amount of parts per million a of Co two across the plant the airflow crossed the plan the. Megahertz, of electricity going through the hydroponic water, and so we take all that data collected on average every. Fifteen seconds to one minute. So we have millions and millions upon data points stork with. What are those data points allow you to do? We actually can generate a formula because our. Our. Whole reason for being at Zia. is to optimize claimed growth. So we are creating a formula. That are customer comes to us and says, I would like you to grow this plant and I would like you to optimize or express this certain enzyme protein some sort of substance in the plant itself. Such that on, it actually is expressed in a way that can be used in some sort of downstream pharmaceutical drug. Now. That being said That being said, what we would do then is we have to figure out so to speak a recipe and all that data allows us to optimize the plan to optimize that certain protein or substance in the plant. Such that it would be then. It would allow us to go downstream and give the best value for our customer. And how consistent is the output? Well, that's That's what amazing about our platform is. So in any type of Pharmaceutical product you are focused on. Two major things as an ingredient supplier to the pharmaceutical companies. Minimal variation that is he must have very little variation batch to batch and you must have maximum produce ability that is that I'm delivering ninety, six percent of what I say every time I'm producing a batch of the equipment. In because of that You can't do that in plants with what was really interesting is that up to now? If. You grew plants in a greenhouse in open farm fields even in indoor farm. Plant number one is not the same as plant number, one million, and the reason for that is there are nuances in the environment. There are nuances in the nutrients Louche. There are nuances in how the plant grows in how it receives even the lighting. And so what we've been able to do if you can imagine is we've been able to center all that and just the environment. So that plant number one may need a little more nitrogen or mania low bit more light than plant number five hundred. But in the end, we can come out with a product that clint number one, implant number one, million are the same, which is what the. FDA and what our customers are looking for in minimal variation, we set a benchmark of that the will just take an example chloroplast of the chlorophyll density in a plant is one of the most important aspects and We set a benchmark of twenty percent in the open greenhouse or in the open farms you're looking at forty percent plus meaning if I have a plan at one end of. A crop field in a plant. At the other end of the crop field, I might have a forty percent differentiation in the chlorophyll the plan. In our platform that minimal variation is averaging seven point, two percent we're down to the level as if we were a pharmaceutical grade manufacturing ingredient are in ingredient manufacturer. I know you've worked with a wide variety of plants but how do you select the right one for a specific? An product. We don't really do this election. We have grown over three hundred, twenty, six different types of species of plants. For our own research to create some as you would say, a library of recipes. But at the end of the day. Or customer will come to us, and essentially that customer will say I'm interested in this plan and I am interested in this specific ingredient in the plant For example, we have a customer that's interested in a certain protein that's exhibited that's expressed in the plant itself. We then would go ahead and start growing that plant insider platform and looking at the data to start creating a recipe to optimize that we can get the maximum mouth protein out of that plant. Other people have used plants to produce biologics through. Recombinant. Science are you're not doing that here? You're just using plans to produce naturally occurring proteins in them. We can do both. The platform is agnes the white it's growing. The one thing about what you just said is. Those type of companies in I'm familiar with some of the companies you you've talked about had a huge downstream processing cost associated with it. So if you're growing the plant and your downstream processing costs are the same as traditional biologics, you're no better off growing the plant. Then you are going through traditional biologic manufacturing. In our case, we can sit there and say to our customer. If you grow inside our platform, you will see some major differences number one that your downstream processing costs will be less because you won't have to filter the product as much. You won't have to. Decontaminate as much as you're growing at pathogen free, environment. The interesting thing with our platform, the data has shown this now because we've had a number of customers through right now on average, we are one tenth. The cost of traditional biologics were one tenth, the infrastructure costs of traditional biologics, and as for the time it takes going through the FDA pipeline. It looks like when we forecast, it's going to be about one fifth time due to the acceleration of botanical plants versus traditional biologics. Walk me through the process of producing a biologic plant what Do you start. Resources. So let's so let's look at this. Let's look at this in three steps. So there is the scientists at the Arn bench that discovers a unique. Protein Enzyme Peptide something that is unique to that plant or could be transgenic he could of genetically modified the plan to create this ingredient. In at that point that's the RND bench stage. At that point the the ingredient would move over to A. What we call first time manufacturing stage or the preliminary manufacturing came we take it off the deep bench and put it into a facility in grow. Wants it. That's proven you WANNA move on to full-scale production. What Zia has done is they've created this half to predict ability. That that if I go to a university or I go to the Salt Institute or I go somewhere I, can sit there and say to them you are going to. Create Ingredient in a plant I'm going to put it into my platform and when I create that recipe in that in my platform. It will be the same ingredient whether you do it. Once twice a million times or a billion badges, it will be the same in. It doesn't matter whether or not I do it in the deep bench stage, the first time facility stage or the Million Square foot stage that half the predictability gives us extreme competitive advantage in plant cell biologics. And what do you do to extract the desired protein from from the plant at the end? The we actually do not do that step. There are a number of companies the handle the downstream processing. I want make a very clear. What Zia does is they are we are the leading experts implant optimization. So we will take a see whether is genetically modified or not. We will germinated we will grow it. We will optimize it for whatever expression of wherever ingredient that our customer wants will harvested, and then we package it up, and then we can that. Of Production, it's sent off somewhere else for extraction of ingredients. So. Our focus is on the seed to post harvest production. That was the missing piece. That's the critical piece of going back to your last question wine plant biologics up to this point weren't as prevalent as traditional biologic manufacturing platforms. You had thrown out some rather compelling numbers comparing traditional manufacturing to using plants. In this way, I'm wondering two things that you didn't mention but I'm wondering if you could s what is the physical footprint, you need to do this relative to traditional manufacturing facilities and how scalable is this process So. So let's Let. Let's address the the first question. The physical footprint is, is kind of amazing. You're growing right now we are growing eight hundred square in an eight hundred square foot. Oh seven cleanroom. That ISOS seven cleanroom Kim. Sixteen thousand one hundred eighty, two heads of lettuce every fifteen days. That's an enormous amount biomass because we stacked vertically inside the room itself So the physical footprint. would be approximately half of what you would see in traditional biologics manufacturing. That's an average. There's plus a minus depending on the plant that you're using But the key issue though is the cost of that. Building. That physical footprint would be about one tenth the cost of traditional biologics manufacturing. That's the first thing. As for the scale ability I want you to think of it. This way imagine network growing inside a shoebox and that shoe box we figured out the perfect recipe the grow plant axe to express ingredient. Why for customers e? If customer Z, want more of ingredient why all we have to do is add more shoe boxes it's a linear modular scale. So unlike traditional biologic. where I spend two to three billion dollars in fact, there was one plane is being built in I believe in your for about two point six, billion wants it that's built they're going to go back again. They will. They'll have to add so much more onto we're building in these eight hundred square foot boxes. So to speak that are essentially can be added on the second thing. These boxes do which is interesting is the platform is agnostic to the. Plant Biologic you're growing. So I could be grubbed have one hundred rooms and grow tolsey basil and a year. Later realize that we can't grow tolsey basil a more the market dried up whatever happened but more importantly, I can now grow a genetically modified less or I can grow wormwood or any other type of plant because the platform is agnostic to the plant inside of it. Are there any special regulatory issues you face? How does the FDA looking you? Are you regulated like a manufacturing facility or do they just look at the end product? Good question a so it it. It would. If you were just going to take a plant biologic and then create all that downstream processing, the FDA would look at the end product but we're in a new phase. Now, they get that one tenth, the cost of one tenth of production costs. That, you need to eliminate the downstream processing, which means the protein or the active has to be centered in the plant itself. So the FDA now has looked at us and we actually are in the process of becoming FDA compliant as a siege GNP manufacturer right now. We expect that in the next couple of months. That's important as for the regulatory framework. the good news is in the European Union the AMA is already set up a regulatory framework for plant biologic sites been set in place. The FDA isn't there yet but the European Union already is and the good news about that is that the FDA is really starting to accelerate. Now, you can thank the cannabis industry for that. You can thank a lot of the nutraceutical industry for put gain pushed forward into regulation. For better or for worse but now this is. Have has come to the top the list for the FDA to create some sort of regulatory framework and see is actually the first one at the table. I can say down in Maryland and our folks there that are talking to them. I would say on a monthly basis of giving them advice on here's where this regulation should be. Here's where that regulation should be. What's the business model. Ultimately as a contract manufacturing organization, do you see partnerships? Do you plan to produce your own products? Yeah. So we don't wanNA produce our own products. Again, we are the experts in plant optimization and the platform itself could be licensed out to anybody but here's we're do I see ourselves in it comes down to this. Biologic. Drugs are only two percent of the drugs used in the world today, and yet they account for thirty seven percent of the net drug spending in the world. Okay. And why is that because biologic drugs are expensive? and. Yet, they're very useful biologic drugs not only stop diseases in the truck because seven of the eight largest blockbuster drugs are biologics but more importantly, they can reverse diseases. So we're I see. Happening is if biologics right now is eight going into a four, hundred, billion dollar a year industry I see plant biologics not taking away from that but adding another hundred billion dollars a year onto that four, hundred billion because there are lots and lots of diseases out there than. Are Too expensive for the rest of the world to purchase. But if there was a low cost plant biologics alternative, it would be revolutionary and that's where I see ourselves that we would partner with these collaborators. We're already partnered with eight universities. We already have a to research institutions. That work with us they are developing. Ingredients in. Proteins and. Peptides that are going into the market in multibillion dollar markets to solve many diseases we're not just talking to the United States, we're talking worldwide, and so we see Zia as the platform and saying folks if you have a clamp by lodging, come to Z., Z will optimize in and allow you to scale your idea that ingredient to get into commercialization because on our other end of our customers. Are Big Pharma customers and what they're going to be looking for is they're going to be looking for somebody like us to they just want the end ingredient they want it standardized they wanted to make sure it's FDA approved it went all those things. So what do we see ourselves in the end? Not so much a contract manufacturer essentially a platform where we actually can collaborate with RND bench guys. And be able to sell an end product to A. Customer who would be the Big Pharma main factor. Jim. CEO and founder of Zia biosciences. Jim. Thanks so much for your time today. Thank you very much. I. Appreciate Your Time Dan. Thanks for listening the buyer report is a production of the Levin Media Group to automatically download this podcast each week subscribe to our RSS, feed or through itunes or other podcasts manager. Join our mailing lists. Go to Levin Media Group Dot Com we'd love to hear from you if you want drop us a line or interested in sponsoring this podcast, send email to Danny at Levin Media Group dotcom. Special facts, giovene who composed are themes. and. Jonathan. Levin collective which performs.
The Most Difficult Business Decision You'll Ever Make
"The. Hey there I'm Eric Olsen. And I'm heaven days. Join us on our journey to building a one hundred million dollars company. Everybody. It's Eric if you are a business owner, and you are thinking growing your business. Then I already know what the most difficult decision is the you'll ever make. And the reason is I've gone through it. For me when I was starting to do more and more work and also get inundated because I couldn't do it all myself. I wanted to expand wanted to go from a one man shop to accompany and that meant hiring. Hiring was a huge decision. And I put it off for a long time for a couple reasons. One as a one man shop I did. Well. All the money. They came in one into my pocket affectively not much but went out for any expenses. I didn't really have any. I didn't do any advertisement. Anything like that? So I was compensated. Very well at the time, not amazingly, I wasn't get rich off of it. It was better than my day job from before. That's for sure. So I liked that aspect of it every hour that I worked and build was compensation for me. And that was fantastic. I was really afraid of what would happen if I scaled and doubled in size going from a one man shop to to mash up. Well, I got another project or two, and I realized that I just couldn't do it all myself in a timely manner. And it was a path that I wanna take anyways. And so I started to interview people, and I found someone who I really liked who had the skills and who was available and was eager to work. Her name is Elise Zia if you're listening right now Lisa which I die you are. But if you are this is all about you. And the decision to hire you. After the interview, I went home and told my wife, I wanna hire this person. And we talked about it. And during the talk I made a statement, which I still remember to this day. Which is if I are I'm not worried about paying her she's going to get paid. I just don't know if there's going to be enough money leftover to pay myself, and now is the big risk. Once you hire somebody you are completely responsible for ensuring their salary and to some extent their career. Basically, you have big responsibilities now that you have to fulfil going from someone who just delivers where to someone who delivers work and is responsible for a staff is a big change. And is something that I wrestled with and when I finally decided to pull the trigger. I knew just like I said a second ago she was going to get paid. I didn't know if I was going to get paid. And that's the way it was going to be. So I'll go without to make sure that she got what she needed s at this coming to commute four lucky for me. It didn't turn out to be like that. She got paid. I got paid. We grew. Everything was fine. But it was a massive decision and even up to this point that was probably six years ago. Now, maybe five years ago to this point. I think that is absolutely. The most difficult decision that I have made to date, and that's why I say if you're a one man or one woman shop, and you're thinking of expanding this is going to be the most difficult decision one to pull the trigger. When to double down, literally double size, your staff, and are you willing to not pay yourself in order to make sure that your employees paid huge decision. Think about it in my case. I did it was well worth it. I would do it again. But it was a tough one. Thank you for listening. I hope you heard something you can implement in your business right away. Finest online at journey to one hundred million dot com.
"A long short story by a prosper Sharon head head. Not Quite stopped crying by the time she appeared in the bathroom. MM DOORWAY LOOKING FOR PABLO. She could gently hold back. The last of the tea is Pablo. Who was standing over? The sink looked up and smiled. Awed along sick line of sweet had poor Pablo's back. It had being an unusually hot and humid night. He was so pleased she'd come over. Zia lift the house now the well of a week and Sharon the box of tissues news and side of the Saint. She gently pulled three tissues from the box and blew her nose. Oh no of Pablo Sharon said. I must look such a mace to you. As she leaned forward would looking into the bathroom MIRA now now who Nardo Pablo said in perfect English. Pablo is learning fast. Sharon thought to herself as she sniffed away. The last of her tea is Pablo lofton smiled. Okay maybe you can teach me one of your hospital tricks. Pablo said they'd winking at Charon Pablo then carefully tried to grab the soap using his left hand slowly like a robot his own was still in plaster for me accident. No uh-huh never no never in a million years. Sharon said throwing head back dramatically. As if she held some secret she would never share.
Ozark, Unorthodox, Tales from the Loop, Years and Years und mehr im Solo-Seriencheck
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Azales and Rhododendron
"Hi, this is Mark news for plan. Talk radio. Thanks for subscribing and listening to our plan of the week podcast. Brought to you by Bod products family made in America, visit by dot com to find a retailer near you each week plan talkradio's Fred how're focuses on a plant. That would be a great addition to your landscape now for this week's Bonn, I products plant of the week. I know it's risky at least inconsiderable part of Ohio, probably two-thirds. But I'm going to say that the Zia Zia's and rhododendrons were so magnificent right before the rain yesterday that I just had to call them the plants of the week. Now, I know that puts many gardeners at risk. I think everybody that ever talked to enjoys the flower zillion rooted enter, but there are places where they won't grow. Well, that is partly because of us not the plant. I think safely stated if you pay thirty dollars for rhododendron Oranization, you should spend so to speak twenty or twenty five dollars. Holy put it in. We always talk about digging the hole twice as wide as the root ball or or the shape of the can I'm going to suggest that you go three times as white. If you have to dig it twice as wide. Go sit on the porch have your favorite beverage. Come back and make it wider. Now, don't make deeper rhododendrons azaleas need asset soil. Yes. By all means, they need a well drained soil, so that they don't stand wet because that that will various decay things and so on can literally kill routes. So I'm without the whole story. I'm going to go back to almost forty years ago. My two boys were coerced driven hammered into grow making a rhododendrons azaleas bed for me. Now, we did put it north of the house in that area. We get some sunshine, but nothing in the late afternoon that burns on them. They get enough light to be in good shape. They are now in that forty year period. There are several rooted entered several Isaelis plant called Perez, which I put in. I think as they lead plant a week or so ago, they're all acid loving. They all demand, good drainage. And then as far as latest concern where I was in. In West Virginia. There are rhododendrons along the way. Roadway and river edge ten and twelve feet tall trunks four inches in diameter. So we know they'll grow in in this part of the world in one way, then we can improve our site. I don't recommend that anybody spend maybe more than ten percent of their landscape dollar when when doing landscaping or adding a plant in a garden, I wouldn't go more than ten percent because they are at risk to a certain degree, but properly planted with a real white whole sand soil peat moss. And so on added in some acid fertilizer, then and thereafter, you can grow them. There are some really good examples where people taking care of them. So think those but with caution? Thanks again. For listening to our podcast. Brought to you by Baen. I'd products at Bonn dot com. Plante talk radio offers other podcasts as well. Including our daily your gardening question podcast and our weekly plan. Talk radio all available on I tunes or your preferred podcast player. If you have a plan suggestion for Fred semi male. Fred at plant, talk radio dot com.
God Will Supply All Your Needs
"September fourteen. God will supply all your needs. My. God will supply every need of yours according to his riches and glory in Christ Jesus. Philippians four. Nineteen In Philippians four, six, Paul says. Do not be anxious about anything but in everything by prayer and supplication with. Thanksgiving. Let your requests be made known to God. And then in Philippians four nineteen, just thirteen versus later he gives the liberating promise of future grace. My God will supply every need of yours. According to his riches in glory in Christ Jesus. If we live by face in this promise of future grace. It will be very hard for anxiety to survive. God's riches in. Glory. Art. Inexhaustible. Really means for us not to worry about. Our. Future. We should follow this pattern pauly's out for us. We should battle the unbelievable anxiety with the promises of future grace. When. I am anxious about some risky new venture or meeting. I regularly battle Unbeliev with one of my most often used promises. Isaiah forty, one ten. The day I left. America for three years in Germany. My father called me long distance. Then gave me this promise on the telephone. For three years. I must have quoted it to myself five hundred times. To get me through periods of tremendous stress. Fear not. For I am with you. Be, not, dismayed for I am your God. I will strengthen you. I will help you. I will uphold you. With my righteous right hand. I have fought anxiety with this promise so many times. That when the motor of my mind is neutral. The hulme the gears. Is the Cell Divides Zia forty one ten.
Nov 14, 2019
"Hello and welcome to sort and scale day leave. I'm your host Ryan Williams. It's Thursday November fourteenth. And this this is your daily true crime report coming up on sort and scale daily in Ohio a mother of five has been arrested and charged with a two two thousand twelve murder. Erika's the Falko is accused of helping her ex husband murder his former girlfriend. Philadelphia woman is charged with abusing and murdering a four year old girl in custody after claiming the child was hurt in a fall finally in Newark New Jersey. An alleged serial killer is on trial for the murder of three three women and the attempted murder fourth. The alleged killer was finally caught after the family and friends of his final victim said shrimp all. This and more coming up on sword soared and scaled daily. Thirty six year. Old Erica. Stefan go was arrested Monday morning and is facing twelve charges in relation with the June two thousand twelve murder of twenty five year old Ashley flee bigs including charges of aggravated murder and kidnapping at the time of the murder. Erika's defunct went by the name. Eric Alliance and was married to Chad. COBB with whom she shares three children. Ashley Biggs. An army veteran. Who worked as a Domino's pizza delivery driver and Cobb who had a cable installation relation business had once dated and shared a six year old daughter in two thousand seven cobb gained full custody of the child who then moved in with him mm-hmm lion and their children without issue until two thousand eleven in two thousand eleven biggs and COBB entered into a custody battle? That quickly returned ugly. This motivated the murder of biggs whose body was discovered in a corn field on June. Twenty first two thousand twelve biggs was called to deliver pizza you to an uninhabited address in an isolated location on June twentieth. The following day her car was found abandoned in a field in Chippewa township with her body in the back seat. She'd been strangled with a four-foot zip tie the kind used for installing cable. Police quickly focus their suspicions on Chad. Cobb Bob who owned a cable installation company in February two thousand thirteen Chad Carr pleaded guilty to the murder of Ashley Biggs and was sentenced to life in prison. Without the possibility of parole he admitted to lying in wait for bigs hitting your over the head and strangling her. The surprising arrest of Eric to go six six years later comes after police received new evidence in the case reports. News five Cleveland. It's alleged that the fog was the one place. The order luring bigs into into an ambush. More details are expected in the news next week in other news. ABC reports that thirty eight year old Semillas Brown from North North Philadelphia was arrested and charged with murder and neglecting the welfare of a child. This Tuesday the charges relate to the death of four year olds Zia Singleton and who had been entrusted to Brown's CARE NBC News Ten reporters Zia's biological mother Jasmine Singleton transferred custody of the Child Brown two years ago because she cannot take care of the child singleton trusted familiar Brown who is regarded sister and Mary to her stepbrother and has children of her own. The two women made notarized agreement that singleton would take back custody of Zia. What she had the resources singleton did not know about the abuse and believed that by making this arrangement she was protecting Zia from going into foster care? Singleton had spent the last year trying unsuccessfully to see her daughter so on October thirtieth. Two Thousand Nineteen S- Amelia Brown called nine one one to report. The Zia had injured herself in a fall she told. EMT's that Zia Zia fell out of a second story window and fell onto a chair that was left on the sidewalk injuring her face. Zia was taken to a hospital where she died from her injuries. On November third in the hospital doctors noticed the Zia's injuries were not consistent with a fall. She'd been suffering from Mount Nourishment and had multiple apple cigarette burns and bite marks on her body. She had various wounds in different stages of healing some of which had been poorly stitched at home thus creating infections affections on November thirteenth. Familiar Brown was arrested and charged with murder of the little girl. According to the District Attorney Zia never sustained a fall and that was just an attempt to cover the truth of what had been done to her. Jasmine singleton told. NBC News. Ten I blame myself to be honest honest I deal with this every day but no one will understand the pain. I go through knowing that I will never see my daughter again. Human Services have removed Brown's biological article children from her home. None of them showed signs of physical abuse after the break. The jury in the trial of accused New Jersey serial killer Khalil Wheeler Weaver heard how he was captured. Thanks to a sting set up by his final victim's family and friends you now for our final story twenty-three-year-old Khalil Wheeler Weaver is on trial in Newark New Jersey for the murder of three women and the attempted murder of a fourth. The attacks took place in the fall of two thousand sixteen NJ DOT com reports that the prosecution claims Wheeler Weaver is a serial killer and that all the crimes were sexually motivated. Khalil has pleaded not guilty on September. First two thousand sixteen emergency units in orange. New Jersey responded to a fire in an abandoned house inside they found the burned body Of One thousand nine year old Robin West who was originally from Philadelphia. She suffered from mental illness left home young and was a sex worker. Her body was so badly damaged. West had to be identified using only dental records. The second victim thirty year old Joanne Brown was last seen climbing into Khalil's car in October. Two Thousand Sixteen Joanne's body was discovered in November two thousand sixteen in another abandoned house in orange there was duct tape around her mouth and nose. Her cause of death was strangulation on November fifteenth. A thirty four year old woman only identified as t t reported that Kalil kidnapped her and tried to kill her. Td was pregnant and struggling financially and she agreed to meet Khalil at the motel where she was living at the time. She voluntarily got into his car but told police she was planning on taking the money and running Khalil. Dan drove them to an isolated location and he sexually assaulted her in the back seat of his car then he covered her face with duct tape and strangled her. She went in and out of consciousness and finally managed to loosen the tape around her mouth and convince Khalil to take her back to her motel room under the pretext of retrieving her phone. When the two guys who are room? Td slammed the door or locking Khalil outside and called nine one one. TD is due to testify against Khalil in this trial. Sadly at the time of the attack doc police did not find her story credible and seemed more interested interesting her for prostitution on November twenty second one week later Khalil allegedly killed his last victim. Twenty Year Old Sarah Butler. All of the other victims were homeless or suffered from some type of mental illness and the prosecution believes that Khalil. Pick them for for that reason. He likely believed that. Nobody looked for people like that when they disappeared. However he made a critical mistake and selecting Sarah Syrup Butler was a college freshman at Jersey City University studying media a lifeguard at a Ymca and a dancer with the local dance theater? On on the day of her death her mother Laverne picked her up at college and drove her home for Thanksgiving break later. That evening Sarah asked her mother to borrow the car for a couple of Hours so she could go meet a friend when she was not backed by morning. Her family reported her missing and started a search of their own looking through Sarah's computer and social media media accounts they found that just before leaving home Sarah had been chatting with Khalil. Ahmed tagged APP which is often used for financial sexual transactions. This Sarah's family discovered that the two had communicated in the past but she never agreed to meet him on the day of her disappearance Khalil offered her five five hundred dollars to meet him for sex. She replied wow. You're not a serial killer right. At which point she did agree to meet him. Prosecution told the jury career after making plans to meet Sarah Butler Khalil searches phone for date rape drugs and poisons in early December. Sarah's body was discovered in Eagle Rock nature preserve. Her cause of death was strangulation. She was murdered elsewhere. Before being transported to the park during the trial Butler's alerts family and friends testified how they set a trap for Khalil after finding the conversations he had had with her they created a fake tag profile tailored to the Appeal Khalil Wheeler Weaver. They agreed to meet Kaleo for sex and had police waiting for him. Upon his arrival Khalil was arrested at his apartment on December for six two thousand sixteen and indicted on February two thousand seventeen. He has pleaded not guilty to all counts and touted his full cooperation with police as proof of his innocence although he admits to having been in the company of each of the victims shortly before they died Khalil claims he left all of them safe and sound his lawyer. We're told the jury that the women lived a dangerous lifestyle and that left them open to many predators. He stated quote they put themselves in vulnerable positions. What what happened to them later is not in the hands of Khalil Wheeler? Weaver the prosecution on the other hand claims they have digital evidence that contradicts this defense. For example sample at the time of Robin West Murder Location Tracking on Khalil's phone showed him at the abandoned house. The fire was set at at then showed him leaving by car. Before turning turning around and returning to the scene to watch the firefighters they also have evidence that Khalil carried out lengthy searches online for search terms such as how to make a homemade poisons to kill humans. What chemical could you put on a rag and hold the someone's face to make them go to sleep immediately and can you raise your phone's location? Data data entry dot com reports that Khalil. WHO WORKED AS A security guard at a grocery store had also searched for practice tests for the police entry exam? The trial is expected to continue for several weeks. Finally before we leave you. We have an update on the investigation into the fatal stabbing of twenty eight year old. Kevin Tyrel Davis Kevin was stabbed during an argument about cutting the line at Popeye's in Maryland. ABC News seven reports. That police are seeking a suspect thirty thirty year. Old Rigo McLean in connection with the incident. McLean has been charged in absentia with first and second degree murder charges and there is currently a warrant out for his arrest. Ask Well. That's it for today. We'll see you tomorrow and until then stay safe. The sword and scale daily is an incongruity media production. Your host was Ryan Williams Research and Writing Bhai Hagar Barak Executive Producer. Mike Day if you'd like to show uh-huh subscribe and leave us a review if you'd like to write us with feedback or suggestions use the email address daily at sword and scale dot com.
234: Last Kiss
"I'm Tracy case and this is the slow down with the poetry foundation and you are overcome with sorrow and an overwhelming desire to kiss to be kissed and you learn because nothing not even the joy of kissing lasts forever last kiss by Jane Moment our lips found each other the song coming through my speakers flared into rapture it sounded like the clouds parting kisses to foreheads cheeks noses and Chins hands bellies even feet they'll grow up soon attrition or maybe just tasty and eventually we found our way to the better pleasure of lips meeting lips to kiss you you know now that a minute of kissing burns twenty six calories and that a man lives up to five years longer wonder what that moment was like the first kiss of our species slow tentative shy or ravenous outrage kiss by Jane Ebihara and it's bittersweet what I take away from it is the reminder to cherish every bliss the heavens awakening we both laughed perhaps we laughed because we knew it was the kiss that would give way to a lifetime of kisses ages the way teenagers kiss one another in public making everyone around them feel exposed do you remember what kissing from the primitive urge to lick the salt off one another's bodies perhaps said salt was needed for me it's something you'd have to hurry to catch the first time I kissed my husband we were sitting on the couch in my Brooklyn apartment the and I'm not just swapping smooch is with my man nightly before bed my children command me to give them kiss after kiss he kisses his lover before he goes to work. You want to tell someone that and what's worse unlike the First Kiss Ebihara I in your seventies and alone you read those who count such things say an average person it felt like to anticipate the rapture of your first kiss to chase after it in your mind as if it were something lingering just ahead in the distance and want their space so I treasure this ritual as the gift that it is today's poem is last and kisses for a total of two weeks in a lifetime and you realize your two weeks was up some time ago when everything else was burning or simply a day you took out the garbage did a load of wash then someone comes this is it too indulgent to say that when we kiss now I still feel something like what that silly song proclaimed that's called Basso Rex Zia and you have it you watch the lips of strangers in the supermarket wonder if one would want finally there is kissing everywhere you look and you learn that cows kiss and squirrels puffins snails and Mir cats the last slipped by unnoted it might have been a spring day when daffodils answered the Sun's invitation or an autumn day and take your hand and you remember words to a song you thought you'd never hear again and you remember all those sunsets you forgot to watch in a science lesson I want sat through years ago it was hypothesized that humans developed the practice of and the smell of woods in rain and do you remember the river the river how it presses its mouth again and again Dan to the swollen see the slowdown is a production of American public media in partnership.
Eine Abrechnung mit "Tote Mdchen lgen nicht", "The Politician" und "The Great"
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Daily Nerd Brief September 30 2018
"Hey, listen. Noti guys me liked pop culture, happenings. He like to keep up to date on all the news. Then you're in a right place. I'm Troy stagner. Zia comics, talk nerdy to me and I'm gonna give you all the nerdy news for this Sunday. It being a weekend and Sunday. It's a little slow, but there's still some stuff I can show you. So let me just. Let me just minimize most self. To the bottom corner here who surf psychedelic looking video. But here we go, we're going to start with games Nintendo. I told you a while back is doing the Pokemon. Let's go for Pichu and easy. They are taking it on the road. It's a game for the intendo ably the switch. I'm not sure if it's going to be on their other platforms, but it's going to tie in with the Pokemon go app that you can get on your smartphone or tablet. This is going on a US tour. It's only a handful of cities, mostly the big cities. So if you live close to big city, you're lucky of four. This is going to you're going to have different demos for the Nintendo switch games, fun photo, opportunity, special giveaways while supplies last, and there'd be a special Pok Mon Snapchat filter that only be available if you're within of a Senator of the truck. And there will be a higher frequency of Pichu EV sightings around these trucks. It's kinda cool, not bad. There's none near me unfortunately. But let me just show you right here, the dates and cities. For my podcast friends get San Francisco, October, sixth, Seattle, October, thirteenth, Dallas on October. Twentieth Topeka on October twenty seven, Chicago, November third, Boston, November tenth and New York on November fifteenth. So if you live near one of those cities, sorry, I don't either. I feel your pain. I would love to go see one of these, then ten, let's go trucks and check out all this cool stuff they have to offer. Maybe this is a success and then Tinto will expand it into more cities. Trisha fingers, got to catch them all. K, there is a trademark dispute with marvel this popped up e cig. It's a vaping thing, e cig company from Hong Kong Shinsen. I joy a technology company limited as a mouthful of Hong Kong applied to get a trademark for their new bathing products and the name. The name alone is not enough to, you know, throw up the red flag avenger, they're calling their stuff of injure. The problem is the font is so close to. The actual avengers logo from the comic books and the movies. I mean, this is the big of injure logo. This is from the comic books, and this is from the films that is just so close. I, I think marvel has a good case on this. They'll probably win and trademark court. I don't. I'm not against it though. I just I just never got into smoking. I couldn't do it. I guess I'm just not cool enough. But you know, as far as e cigs go, this thing looks rather cool and the kicker is, is boys controlled. So I don't know. I know marvel is trying to stay away from the whole smoking thing. I don't think they have any characters who smoke even characters who are notorious for smoking cigars and stuff like Nick fury and wolverine. You'll notice they don't do that in the newer comics. They're trying to keep away from that. I guess they don't want to influence kids to start smoking. So I guess marvel his grant been granted extension to oppose the trademark. I don't think any problem proving that is, I mean, very, very close. It's almost like they're just trying to ride on their coattails. So good luck marvel protect your property. Harley, Quinn DC comics, Harley, Quinn number fifty one. There's there may be some spoilers here. So if you don't want spoilers don't listen this part forward. It. You just you don't wanna know if you don't care about spoilers. Keep listening. There is an exclusive preview for next week's Harley Quinn number fifty one. If you read number fifty UC that she just really jacked up the whole continuity line. And now there's a captain triumph. In Harley comics, captain. They didn't just make this up. This is an actual character back from the forties, captain triumph. I believe started in quality comics or crack comics. It was a property of the DC bought up and they, they use them very sparingly. He. His origins really kinda weird. He is a twin his in him and his brother both had a a t shaped birthmark on their oblique on the wrist. I don't remember which side. Something happened is they were. His brother was killed in a sabotage attack. Died in his arms. No. And then he vowed to get revenge for his brother's death, the fates. Who are the three old hag 's that you know control. All reality. I guess. Believe in Greek models are apropos cloth os, and I came river the other one, but they have different names here in DC comics. It's. They decided that it was very heroic of what you know. Captain triumph is name wasn't triumph for that time. What he was trying to do, I believe isn't it was Lance gallant gallant the real magic with the names. So they gave him a kind of a superpower. They his brother's ghost, they loud to remain on earth. He could merge with his goes by touching the birthmark, the matching tee birthmarks they had it would merge him and give him these ghostly powers. He could fly. He was almost invulnerable couple other things. And when they were, you know the naked touch again and it would send the ghost away a, hey, could communicate with the ghost. He sent him the no through walls do recon because no, 'cause see the ghost and they come back. It was not a bad concept. This never really took off. They try to bring him back in with all star squadron and the Uncle Sam of freedom fighters in they couldn't get him to gain traction. So we haven't really seen much until now the bringing him back into harlequin number fifty. One. He's run around doing his do-gooder stuff Harley, trying to get him back into his own timeline continuity. And of course. It's Harley Quinn. So she runs into some issues doing that. So you will get the read that on October. Third, this coming new comic book day is going to be on the shelves harlequin number fifty one. If you like Harleys hijinks than pick that up. Star Wars fans. The comic book ever since marvel and Star Wars got pulled under Disney. They've been doing a really good job of keeping continuity or canon. I guess you'd wanna say between the comics and the movies, they rebuild a little bit of Han solos history and the comic book and the movie. They alluded to the fact you know that he enlisted in the imperial army actually wanted to be a pilot. One of the cut scenes was, you know him not taking orders. Well, as Pero pilot, which is how he got booted down to every in the movie which dragged from him and listening to him being in that mud planet in infantry. Just watch that deleted scene. The DVD Blu Ray is out now it's a good scene. I wish it would left it in, but I guess they had to cut it for time. You see Han. The comic book. This is before the attack on the desk star. The last sortie they went on them Lennon falcon got beat up pretty bad, bad enough that they couldn't fly it. So on is going out to in, he's traveling with the rebels because that's really his only way to scape Vader. At that point, he jumps into an x. wing and goes, weren't the orange flightsuit and everything goes out and helps Luke take care of. The imperial forces, of course, is x wing, you know how tiny those cockpits are. So chewy can't go with him to upset. They don't make fighter. That's like putting a big dude in a sports car just doesn't work. Chewy needs to be something like a freighter like the the millennium falcon. So, yeah, you get to actually see on when he's out there fighting with the rebels. Actually taking orders working as part of a group, which is something you don't ever see him do in the movies or in any of the books up to this point actually. So he can actually take orders and fight as a group. He does kinda doesn't like doing it. So, yeah, you got Han flying and his arch jumpsuit, helping the rebels, the resistance. And when he jumps into the fight, of course it, he's, he's such a pilot actually helps turn the tide of the battle. Let's go into some proposed stuff. Tiffany, haddish I think you'll see her most recently in night school with Kevin Hart that movie coming out. She has expressed interest in playing, wonder, wonder, woman sister, did you know she had a sister? Yeah, but you didn't. Her sister's name is Nubia. And that is a take on the new more Nubian. Her sister is black. And how they. They read Kanda history wants, but the regionally, how it happened was when when Romans mom made her, she made to, she made a light one in a dark. One clay the gods brought her both to life, but then the God Mars swooped in and stole Nubia away and took her and she became a big warrior. She found out later that she had a sister, her sister. Is just as powerful as her probably even more so and the sword she has. It was given to her by the gods actually counteracts the LASSO. So in the last has no affect on her, there's no word if she is going to be in the new one Roman movie coming out November, I twenty nineteen. That character anyway, maybe maybe they allude to her that would be kinda cool to see her sister and her newbie is actually credit is one of the first female black female characters in comics, superhero characters. So that's kind of cool. That's a little trivia to stick under your hat. There. The only thing that has been confirmed is one of the main villains is going to be cheetah played by Kristen wig in two is a longtime wonder, woman villain in comics. Cheetah just picked up some new powers. She got, she can kill gods. Now she killed was Poseidon. I think she'll Poseidon in one of the newer issues. So keep an eye out for Nubia, hey, you can go impress your friends with that little nugget and knowledge air that one. Roman does have a sister, a a bad ass sister who could probably Wilbur and Dino that person's origin. So maybe you can when a bet with your friends. Venom is coming out this week the next. They're already pretty well through all the production stuff for their next the by your man or spider. Verse spinoff Morbus. I've told you guys about this before they've already cast Jared Lee though, to be the lead as Morbus I can see. I think he would do a good job is more bis if you don't know about this character it back during the comics code days when they tried to self police themselves because you know society was saying that comic books were bad and evil, and you couldn't have also inner. So instead of bowing down to them, they decided to self police. So as Santa's zombies, they had characters called zoo. Vam b.'s they had Morbus wasn't really vampire. He was a. He was kind of created himself by accident. He had a rare blood disease. He was a biologist. He was trying to research out to cure himself. And during that process, of course, you know, like all good scientists, he tested on himself. And yeah, that's what happened. It turned him into a. I guess a pseudo vampire. So interesting story. He's a good character. He's another one. You don't only the true comics. People know that name if you're not into comics, especially if you're not into Spiderman comics, which is where he kinda got his start. I'd leave. It was number one one. Yeah. Here mazing spire a one. Then you'd probably haven't heard of Morbus really good flawed character. They because we're going to do. It wasn't be silver and black, which was going to be silver sable and black cat teamed up which are two very iconic, Spiderman characters. That one kinda got delayed. They don't. I never really heard good reason why has just decided we're not going to do it. They pushed it back more Bs as far as I know is still chugging along as going to is going into production here soon. Here's what I'm kind of excited about. They're saying Sony's also gonna be making movies on craven the hunter silk and Nightwatch night watching us, oh much. He's a, it's a really weird character. He witnessed some superhero looking dude die. He went an unmasked that guy, and it was an older version of him. So he freaked out and grabbed the suit and went and tried to hide her while and then decided down the high anymore. Come out a fighting crime with that advanced suit with nanotech stuff in it. That character never caught on even though he was used quite a bit. Just never really caught on silk is a newer character coming out Spiderman. She was bitten by the same radioactive spider as Peter, but she went down different life path and she's really, really interesting character. If you haven't read anything silk, you might wanna look that up to extensive talked about here and then craven the hunter at craven, the hunter, one of my favorite Spiderman billons dude, actually, bested Spiderman became spider man for a little while that was his whole thing. He has hunted every area for middle thing. You can hunt on earth. So Spiderman was his next conquest. He did that and he was happy. The craving. The hundred is one bat. You don't want craven looking for you that do would be a killer bounty, hunter. So we're looking in the future for those three spin offs coming out of the Sony spider verse. Sony does not have a good track record with superhero movies. Let's hope that they've learned in setback in washed what's working for marvel because marvel is just absolutely killing it for superhero movies. Prussia fingers because there's a lot of good spin offs. They can take out of the spider verse. Go to next thing. And the last article I have for y'all century as another character lot of people. If you're not a comics, nerd, you probably don't know about century. They're kind of going to change him up a little bit. Now, century is a is super. He has like three different personality type forms century is the ultimate do-gooder pretty much invulnerable super. He so strong. He ripped Aries in half areas. God the God, you know, the God of war, no less rhythm in half like it was nothing. He's one of the carnage up in space, ripped him and half like is nothing. He can't really can't die. He's tried to commit suicide. A few times flew directly into the sun and he gets regenerated plus he's super strong. He can fly. He. Dude is just Opie. He is the definition of overpowered. His human form is Bob Reynolds, who is kind of an overweight. Let me see. I got a picture somewhere. Nope, I don't just overweight dude, you know, on earth any has the century form in him. He also has the opposite of century, the ultimate evil called the void. It's like as much as the century is good. The void is kind of that that yen Yang deal. So whatever the censure does good, the void tries to counteract it by doing just as much bad. He Bob rentals kind of got his powers by being injected with a a hyped up version of the super soldier serum that gave captain America is -posedly thousand times more advanced and stronger than what captain America got, and I can believe it. 'cause I guess character is just so completely over the top strong. So you know, tell those those three things you Bob Bob rentals, who's the human form century is the do? Gooder void is the bad dude. I just leave it that. That's the simplest way to tell you. They Bob rentals kind of was afraid of what would happen by using century also unleash void. So he kind of retired from superhero ING for a while. Now something happened that they kind of merged all three. So you got that, you know, void and century kinda counteracting each other good Nevil with the moral compass of Bob rentals in, they're trying to lead them the right way. So this new century which I'm showing you here new suit and everything. You went from yellow to red. On his suit. I guess they're going to end blackberries not blond anymore. He almost looks like a dragon ball character. He's Kimmy goes super scient-. Century at this new century with all. You know with him, everything in check and him kind of balanced. Now they're even saying that this all new century I'm I'm quoting is the most terrifying marvel universe character right now he's going to be. Unstoppable. The only way to get to him, it would be mentally try to take him down, but there's just no way physically, you're gonna stop him. He's do what he wants. Yeah, but you know, like I said, the centuries, so good. Evil is eve, the void is evil, those things counteract. So he's got balanced. Now being led by the human personality Bob rentals. Kind of interesting really kind of interesting. I, he's, he's almost like a above a superman level. I don't, and I'm generally not a fan of overpowered characters like that. Let's see how they Ryan. They're going to have to give them some kind of weakness. Otherwise, he's just gonna be unlikable. Nobody likes it completely overpowered character that much. We'll see. Like I said, that is the last thing I have for you guys to day. I'm going to maximize myself back up here. You're gonna get me all full screened. There's age. And let me take you over to the other age and up. All right. As always thank you guys for watching. Please subscribe to this YouTube channel. Mash that Bill icon. So you get notified of all the new videos as I put him up for my auditory, only friends on podcast, subscribe to me on your favorite podcast platform, and I will see you guys again tomorrow later nerds. Gain that you get. Jonah class, you play in an all each e.
Episode 77: They Call Us Helen Zia
"Move Hello and welcome to this special live recording of they call us bruce an unfiltered conversation as to what's happening in Asia America. We are live at CAL poly Pomona. I'm bill you and I'm Jeff Yang Fills Co host and partner in crime but we we are incredibly incredibly excited to be here on this stage with a long time and dear friend of ours and someone who's incredibly important I Khana really in our larger community and that is a journalist author activist Helen Zia. That's where the applause comes and we're here to talk about a number of things but very specially actually the most recent book of hers that she wrote and published last boat out of Shanghai the epic story of the Chinese who fled Maoz Revolution but I I I think we want to get a little bit more context of Helen. Your own journey to get here since this book is all about journeys as it were. I mean obviously we've known you for a minute a- and respect for even longer than that but in the introduction to the introduction before we started recording being our host Marr- you mentioned that you actually gave up a potential career in medicine to become an author and journalist and activist and then you're like first of all hello and welcome. Yes welcome thank you and I. I just let me say you are. Both you know icons to me. I've known a both of you and of your work for so many years and you know everybody in the Asian. American community pays any attention at all to what's going on. I mean you are the heroes and what an honor it is for me to be here with you so thank you recognition humility wall now boom and also to be here at CAL poly Pomona and be part of this program and and Mary you. Denny go is really my Shiro so and thanks to all of you for being here so when the introduction and said that I gave up medical school to become a construction worker that's not quite I quit. Medical did not take a lot of persuasion to you know and it was one of those things as many of you can probably connect as the daughter of immigrants it it was. It's very hard for me to you know after two weeks of being in medical school. I realize what a terrible mistake. I have made you know I did not major in anything science. I took the minimal minimal premed courses and unfortunately got accepted and but once I got accepted it. Was You know how do I tell my folks that this is not going to work and it took me two years to get the courage up to just say I'm not going back and you can imagine how not happy that made them but then when I went on to work in construction and and get a job at Chrysler Corporation on a factory floor they a new ad gone crazy so anyway that was a great way for me to be able to pursue a life of activism because they already thought I the daughter was nuts so it's sort of didn't matter and coming out as lesbian. It was also like okay. We knew crazy anyway. They did come to to accept all of that so I can tell you. If you follow your heart and the passion of the things you really care about to have your life and leave lead your life life. Not your parents lives or what they wish for ultimately they'll come around. I can speak for the other people who've disappointed their parents on this stage. That is absolutely true. guys go forward and our dreams yeah to continue the sort of the praise narration on on both sides of the stage. I you know I mean this. When I say that Helen you are one of my greatest inspirations as as a as an Asian American activist listen writer and someone who just raise my voice. You know what I mean. I think a lot of people of my generation we came to know of you and your work through the Vincent Chin Case for me it was seeing the documentary who killed Vincent Chin and two senior face to senior raise your voice and being so prominent being a figure in that movement it learning about the case the learn about the case and learn about you. It changed my life. Honestly he was a benchmark and be understanding what my identity as Asian American was who I could be what I should stand up for. It articulated a lot of struggles I had as I'd never been through something like that particularly so much of the sentiment that I felt my life so oh I've told you this before. We've been on other panels together before but like honestly being here with you and talking with you in sharing this is an honor to me because it you have been informed so much of my journey along the way well thank you for that thank you both. I mean this is a love fest by the way but notice but you know I feel like everything I've done has been part of breaking through the invisibility that we still have as especially those of us who are Asian American or the civic islander in this country and both of you through angry Asian man a magazine through all of the writings and speaking that both of you do I mean that's really really what it's about. It's to bring our voices to the fore and I feel like that's what my work has been about two well. Let's talk about that work. and very specifically. I think the books that you've written and this one in particular so many of them have been anchored in the context of immigration immigration right of going from far off shores and arriving to even more distant ones places which were are not home which are alien which autumn it you make home and even even the story the initial kind of serving as a spokesperson in the context of Vincent Chin was also about raising a voice of an immigrant who was not able speak for himself for family who was not able speak for themselves a community ultimate altman who could not how did you actually gravitate towards exploring in all the work you've done that particular kind of I've almost marginalization being between two worlds and may party to either neither for me the part is you know what are you you choose to write about and they always say you know. Talk about what you know well. I also know that what I know so much of of this country he has no idea I mean when the Vincent Chin's case started out and I was a budding journalist and I became the spokesperson for the group. Every time we met with a reporter it was doing Asian. Americans WANNA one. No we didn't all just come fresh off the boat. Though some of US may have there are the railroads odes. Hello you know Asian. Americans have actually been on this continent going back to recorded to the fifteen hundreds and and a half to actually explain that over and over again and so it it just has become a consistent theme for me in a way to find find the places that people are you know the stories that are missing and when I did Asian American dreams I actually came up with the phrase instead of Mia Missing in action and my h missing in history which I feel that you know so many people Asian Americans than beyond you know in this society are am I h missing in history and so there's a piece of that history that I can share that I have a passion for exploration and so this book is in a way a continuation of that an exodus that is not only missing here missing in China missing in the world. There's not another book in the English language. Not A PhD dissertation not a Master's thesis about this migration and this migration seventy years old and I think we can point to any of our communities and say you know wow. I never see anything about this part of of my story my family's story and so I you know I think that's something everyone of us can do and I feel like that's what both of you do. Bring those stories to the fore. You are the your family of a Chinese immigrants What is your personal connection to this specific story though what was it that drew read this a lot of for me reading it I realized that I had no I two new nothing like my history had failed me by history education had failed me but what was it. What was your entryway into sort of wanting to. I saw deeply into the story well so I was completely ignorant about does even though my family's story was part of this and the phrase last bowed out of Shanghai is not something I created. It's something I grew up hearing and that was the only thing I knew knew about my family story that my aunt would say a we came on the last bowed out of Shanghai and she would say it like that and as a kid you never know what that means and and as I got older I met more and more people who said we came on the last boat out of Shanghai and then you realize wow there's no boat in the world large large enough to hold all those you know or they'd say the last plane out of Shanghai the last train out of Shanghai and it same thing but the one thing that was in common was was they all had that sense that the last boat before imminent disaster or doom and so I wondered what that was and then at a certain point I heard a story from my mother and she had never cheer I would say to her mom what was it like growing up in China and as a kid and she would say that was wartime a bad memory and one of the things you know that's the thread with my other work. Is that even today with all the Anti Immigrant Anti immigration assaults that are happening every day. Asian Americans are never included in that discussion. Even though Asian Americans have the highest proportion of immigrants of any community in this country and that invisibility so so a part of my feeling. Was You know we have to I wanNA tell part of that story and so this is a seventy year old migration you know this this year marks the seventieth anniversary of the Communist Revolution in in the mainland of China and nobody knows this even in China and so so. I felt like this was something I wanted to tell. I had a personal connection to it but it also opened up a whole door to something I didn't know and I think that's something that you know. Actually every one of our communities could be doing you know the the phrase that you mentioned a little earlier one. That's of course I very familiar to myself as well fresh off the boat right that that term is often used with as either self deprecating Tori description of people who are more recently immigrated or as an insult thrown at people who are more recent immigrants and the the thing would it that it hides is what the boat that people have gotten off of looks like what the journey looked like right in arriving you you know we discussed a little bit before the event started about the fact that migration is very complicated topic here in America not least because you know there tends to be inflation of a lot of different experiences are extremely involuntary migrations such as slavery you know after Americans being kidnapped and brought here and there are some which are have various levels of agency associated with but in almost every case the story three of migration is kind of a harrowing one and this one this last bowed out of Shanghai. The description you give to it even in in the very prologue is just amazing. It's it's about people not realizing. They're never going to see potentially their family. Members of the city that grew up again trying to get out on a boat both so overloaded that it's almost thinking through a port down river essentially that is full of purposely wrecked ships is that were put down there to prevent incoming invaders from being to get access to the city and which were subsequently mind by those invaders so so it was a deadly experienced for some you mentioned that there was there were both they didn't get out right right the worst maritime disasters even doubled all the deaths that the titanic had. I mean the worst maritime disasters were of this period and again. Those are those are stories that are lost in history that are missing from our history so this whole notion though of people escaping this. I remember e noting that those resistance to you telling the story because there's a perception that the people who are escaping during this period where you know we're wealthy and you know why talk about them. Of course they had the resources to get out what was the context context of that and how did you kind of overcome some of those those thoughts even in your own decision to take on the story. Well you know in the as you were saying so much is conflated. You know that I actually too many people all Asian. Americans are the same as people who are who roots. Let's go to Asia. Nobody in Asia call themselves Asian right. There's no such thing in Asia of Asian and you know if we take any one of the nation's nations are countries that are you know have their political borders and so forth and you know one point five billion or whatever in China there's so much differentiation in and cultural differences and within the Chinese context people who are from Shanghai are probably the least popular of of of any of the Chinese language groups or ethnicities because why because Shanghai was the most modern city educated all this stuff westernized is and it was a group of people that didn't mind bragging about that and so wherever the Shanghainese went including Hong Kong or Taiwan or the United States they they would tend to brag about things and one of the things I found was the the oldest Chinese American community is from southern China from Guandong along Joe Province and the difference between the Cantonese and the Shanghainese was described to me like this Shanghainese with one dollar acts like they they have a hundred dollars. A Cantonese who has a hundred dollars acts like they have one dollars. You can imagine just that was oil elon water and so in a lot of settings including academia people who study Asian American Chinese American history. You know it's like Shanghainese bragged so much about themselves. Why do we need to have to study them and so I think that was some of the resistance but in a way that made it appealing in the the sense that I felt like I could unpack a lot of that blow up some of the stereotypes that even among Chinese Americans ourselves that we have of the different you know the different groups of Chinese Americans let alone Asian American so I think a lot of that. Is You know we have to educate ourselves. We have to own our own prejudices to other people even internally and all this stuff and the more we know the more we share the better the more informed all of us will be including people. Who Have you know who say oh. You're all alike. Aren't you and you can say no. Actually we're very different. You know so that's what can you talk a little bit about the process because I would like to know if you read this the scope and the level of detail with you right and all the in addition to being historical epic it also is extremely cinematic and its narrative the way you write with you know with sort of the interior of these characters these characters how did you go about doc gathering all of this history and personal detail and had you know it's kind of a I to me. It seems very daunting when I was reading it. So what how did you start so the process was a long one and I didn't begin with the narrative or an idea of how go about it. I didn't know that many people who were survivors who had gone on this journey so part of it was having to find them but I have to say I started did this book more than twelve years ago and so it was a twelve year journey and I realize some of you were in elementary school at that point and I had no idea it was going to take me this as long but part of it was in order to get the you know the emotion when people leave and you know the vast majority the of Americans ancestry is somewhere else whether they were forcibly kidnapped to come here or came quote voluntarily but the point is nobody leaves where they are. If they're doing great were they are and that applies to the pilgrims you know they didn't leave you know Europe or because they were doing well there. They left because they couldn't survive there and they had to leave and that is true for this migration. It's true for really every migration. If you're doing great you don't leave and that process of migrating is traumatic. It's it's really a trauma and most people well. Don't talk about it. They don't tell their kids. They don't want their kids to know there was a time when they they went through a really hard time emotionally and so when I found on these people I also wanted to get some idea of well and so what was that like growing up in a war torn city where you could walk to school as a child and there would be dead bodies along the way and you were told as a five year old if somebody if you see a dead body walk around it or go the other either way what was that like and a lot of people you know it's hard to get to that level of how did you feel then and so the main characters the real people people that I interviewed and you know it's the real names. It's a real stories. I interviewed them over a period of more than ten years several of them had I talked to like twelve times or so and they wouldn't talk about you know the most painful things the first five years I talked to them but maybe by year ten I could ask you know one of the main People Benny What was it like when your father was in prison. What was that like knowing saying that he was probably going to get executed for being a traitor to China. How did that make you feel and by year seven. I could ask him. And how did you feel about your father and he could finally say to me. He was my father. I love my father but I hated him too. I hated the decisions he made that destroyed our family and I hated what he did to the Chinese people and so oh that's that was part of it to really dig down into their descriptions and I have to say so. Many of these people were just so generous with me because they let me call them time time and time again just say well you said this and what was that like for you and could you describe it more and I didn't quite understand what was the dynamic between you and your mother and you can figure if somebody started asking you about you know major times in your lives the first time you described it you might just you know give of a thumbnail sketch person keeps bugging you asking more and more you might get in touch with the feelings you had when you were ten years old and then to share that it sort of reminds me that writing is like therapy right. I mean not just for yourself but often for others. It gives people an opportunity to even tell stories that they didn't know that they have within them and I think that especially you're talking about stories of migration stories of loss awesome stories of displacement as you pointed out. These are stories that you suppress purposely others often repressed than in you. They don't talk about these things things you ultimately choose to push them down deep because you have to remake yourself whenever you come somewhere else and a lot of that. I think speaks to the the very kind of amazingly contemporary feel of the book that even though this book is about a certain time a certain place a certain conflict and a certain class of people people there are some universal aspects to migration that we are seeing that are intensely relevant to today and two other migrations including ones across our southern border and I wanted to pull that for a little bit because here we are in California. We're watching a lot of this stuff. Play out on our our main stage that were when you as you were writing that this book and even as you were kind of capturing these stories we aware of how how relevant this notion of migration was going to be when the book actually was published and wants a was how did you start thinking of putting closure on the work and leering some some of the things you actually say in the book that brings that connection forward well starting a book twelve twelve years ago honestly it was really stories that I wanted to uncover. I mean as you say there's a process of of you know revelation revelation to and so I didn't know where the story was going to go. I just knew that there was stuff there that nobody I couldn't find anything about outed. I knew there was a lot to discover and as I started interviewing people and asking them so. How did your family decide to leave leave and they would tell me I mean? Some of these debates would go on for two years within their family. Should we leave. Should we stay. You know a revolutionist coming. What will happen to us. What will happen to the children and they were children at this time if we leave? Where would we go if we where we go. Oh how we live. Will we survive if we stay if we leave will we survive and and all of those kinds of things and if you can't afford to bring the whole family who do you leave behind. These were all things. Were going to leave everything we own. How can we do that. What can we carry in the two bags that we're bringing ringing and this is a story of every refugee community. It's a story of every really migrant community. You can't bring like a container ship with you you you know and and you can't bring the entire family all of the cousins aunts and uncles grandparents and so there was so many stories of people who left babies behind. He didn't never got to see them again. Families that were torn apart and whether it was the last boat out of Shanghai or the last helicopter out of Saigon or the at the last rubber raft onto the Mediterranean with families who can't swim and they're putting their own babies on a raft not knowing whether they're going to survive or the last bus leaving you know Guatemala and then you have to get off the bus and walk a thousand miles with your baby on your back knowing not knowing whether the baby is going to be ripped away from you and put in a you know a chain link cage on a cement floor. Why do people do that. They think about it very hard before they do it and they only do it because they think if we stay the children are not going to live of past childhood and so that was something that I learned about all of these people as I interviewed them and it was just clear as you know as we've we've made our way to today that this was something that you know with all of the and pardon me all the bullshit we hear all the time coming emanating from from people who just label all of refugees around the world as criminals as people who are just decided yesterday. Let's go on the rubber raft and go destroy destroy whatever country that they end up in. That's not the case they they went through all of the agony to to do this and and as I was saying nobody leaves their the country with their home their family everything they know in love. Nobody leaves unless they feel like they have to and so that's what we're I ended up with this book as I was finishing writing it in the book. Some of the book is I would categorize in the genre that I I can't like. I devour but I'm always like it hurts. My heart to read is Zara categorizes a sad stories of Asian cruelty just learning about so much of the suffering that happens in our in our motherland's you you know and and to read about these characters and the unimaginable calculation that has to go into these these decisions especially when I when I hear about stories of of children in peril and these these decisions that parents have to make to you know just even in the character the characters in your book where Children Chris Given up because it was just it was the best for the family when I read about that and and and and then today in contemporary stories about a the unimaginable sacrifices that families have to make I don't understand the criticism and the and the and the scapegoating that happens happens like why would anyone voluntarily do this to themselves knowing this is they did because they had no choice. It's that immense suffering offering that has to happen even in the decisions and so I wonder if but I feel like this is not not something I usually hear about sort of things happening in my own community again sort of the stories that like we we come to the forefront that the media sort of you know propels. I never get to hear about this sort of on the level of like it's always the love of of shaping a bogeyman shaping like of you know the thing that we have to be aware of you know. I have no question that's just me sort of venting and well and and then my hope I think as a as a writer is that if we can learn a little bit about history and ask ourselves. What would it take for for you to leave your family today to maybe leave behind children and take only you know who would you take leave behind your mother other and father the people you love what would it take and then to to put yourself in that shoe in those shoes and then to to see learn a little bit about history of what these people went through? How would you make that decision and then to be able to say you know what there are. Seventy three million refugees around the world today every one of them have experienced that trauma and so what are we inflicting on them today with this government that we have the walls not only physical walls but bureaucratic walls about changes that are happening to make it impossible for immigrants to live here to get medical care or food stamps for their kids. You know this is what's happening today and so the kind of you know if we can learn from history. I hope we can Stop repeating it but I do want to say see that in the book. It's not all doom and gloom either it. There are stories about what people discover in having to find you know find a home in a new place place and what does that mean you know the four young people that I follow through their their exodus years and then their diaspora. I mean they they find love. They find homes. You know they've make a new life. It's not easy but they do it and that is also the story of every migrant migrant around the world to that they try to find a way to survive some more successfully than others but but that is also part of their journey and for a you know Asian American Pacific Islander people that is very much part of the journey because so many of our community are either immigrants ourselves or from families that are very recent immigrants so we know this story very well but I just want to say there. There are happy moments moments too is. Is there something that you wanted to share with us well. I DID WANNA share. One of those movies very brief. This is one of the people who actually found himself on a ship leaving Shanghai and he was a student and so he kept a journal. He kept a journal of his first first day. Leaving and I got the journal he gave it to me. I had translated and so here is just one note from him. The American ship offered offered Ho a first glimpse into his upcoming life in America to cool off from the heat of a sticky August Day. He took a shower the his first first experience with such a contraption nearby was the water fountain another. I after a few cautious sips. He quenched his thirst from this amazing device that dispense the continuous stream of clean water no boiling necessary in the third class dining room he waited in a long but orderly line for servings of sausages potatoes carrots rice bread fruits tea and sugar a precious commodity in Shanghai. The unlimited quantities stunned him especially the sugar that night he jotted down a new American phrase raise all you can eat and for most migrants from around the world they come to America. That is what the all you can eat. Are you kidding hitting and so this will say I've heard this actually over and over again from so many of the people that I've not only in interviewed but who have come from all over the world America America all you can eat clean water you know and so I lose are also the kind of things that that I discovered. Can I say okay that this is at the very root I think of a Chinese immigrants certainly fascination with like buffets in my own family there of course Chinese buffets but even when we go to Atlantic City or Las Vegas or something that one of the first ones they wanna do is a let's check out the buffet because for them it is the very heart the very symbol of American abundance almost disgusting abundance well and so is the Ziplock doc bag carry with you to every buffet of like there's an Asian cuisine honestly right but there is such thing a legit thing as Asian buffet. I'll argue that to the end you can eat Asian buffet on. Does this is a good time for us to take a break but when we return we will do our signature segment the good the bad and the W. T. F. Please stick around to take a break. I think we're still here and we're going thrown. It's an exciting time Asian Americans. There are more movies. TV shows books and music reflecting us than ever but all of these represent just a small slice of Asian American culture altern experiences. So what do we do. Tell more slices. asian-american is a show that explores these slices of distinctly Asian American culture and history. We've talked about how Chinese Americans built California Sacramento Delta The Art Scene Turns Gallery institution giant robot a play that explores the loss Cambodian pop music of the Sixties and seventies and of course Boba just to name a few stories you can find asian-american at Asian Americana Dot Com or on your podcast APP and we're back all right on the second half they calls Bruce we will do our signature saying the good the bad the WTO Jeff Jeff Yang. Would you please lay down the rules of engagement that I will do so this is our round table segment of the show in which we we and our esteemed guests will cover a topic from three different directions. those who directions being of course the good the thing that makes us feel positive warm fuzzy excited. It's inspired perhaps about that topic and the bad the thing that troubles. US pisses off maybe a little bit and then finally the Wfan just to be clear the W is not necessarily a bad thing it simply means the questions we still have the things things are still make us go the puzzles that are still left to be unparalleled and for this particular conversation we wanted to look at the good the bad and the devotee f half of something which I think is at the heart of again not just this book but the larger conversation that you've been leading taking a part of and that's migration right both voluntary and less voluntary or you know very involuntary as the case may be the sort of universal tropes that extend around around what it means to cross borders and cross oceans in search of either freedom security aspiration or or simply safety for your children and we always put our guests in the hot seat. I so Helen. Let's start with the good of migration I mean obviously there's a lot of their goods right. So what would you say especially in the course of writing this book. you felt was your biggest good takeaway. Perhaps from from migration well I was going to start with the bad. Let me just say that. You know given all of the bad that's going on about. What's said about immigrants in how terrible they are in refugees and why they should all be deported even if they're here quote legally and have legal papers and should be driven away the good is that immigrants make America strong immigrants make America strong girls and that that has been part of this country's heritage that actually every president before this one has acknowledged and welcomed and and there are study after study after study that shows this in and actually I'm involved right now with a with a a movement that's going on called the One Nation Commission to show that immigrants make America strong and so anyway that that I think is not only good good. It's the foundation of this country. It's what attracts so. Many immigrants migrants refugees here. You know for this group. It was it was is the place of first choice it was also the hardest place to get to which I think is also part of part of the story but I think that's the good and and we have to repeat it over and over and over again and so so that's good it's great. I you know I'll I'll jump in here here and I will say one of the things that really struck me about How the book closes is you you talk about. where the the Shanghainese immigrants migrants landed a lot of them ended up in New York. A lot of them ended up in situations very different from where they came. you know they lost money lost everything they chose quote unquote to do things like working garment factories. Oh just for fun right. I remember those anecdote about that when they open restaurants and they did other things that were about again finding a new way to just build a foundation and in this new place a place that didn't necessarily want them there and then you have this litany of startlingly successful people who came out of families who migrated because of this this Shanghai escape as it were and it's an incredible list so to me I think part of the good and I think this extends to migration in general refugees. Perhaps in particular is that rather than seeing people who flee and go through immense turmoil to get to a place like this as being the refuse of those countries. No those are the people who have forged themselves into survivors into people who can kind of take anything the WHO've become diamonds in the process of the pressure. We want more of those people ooh absolutely I mean it takes incredible planning first of all if you know you're GONNA have to walk a thousand miles with your babies. What do you bring and where are you going to go and what the route. That's going to be the safest I mean. This is what these people you know. This generation of migrants went through. That's what everyone goes. It's not like Oh magically be transported here here and so so these are people who are willing to take risks they're trying to survive they make incredible plans and they end up in a country and many of them came with a lot of maybe not a financial capital but they came with intellectual capital. They came with social capital. They knew how to do things things and we're willing to set up somewhere else and the investment. I mean of the bad today is how even people are being. Can you know told that you can't get food stamps. You can't get medical care for your sick child or your aging parent or housing assistance if you're or a refugee who ends up here with nothing and to not think what an investment that is too because really you know this the next generation. I mean you're talking about out who some of these people are from this one diaspora that includes Maya Lin Amy Tan Nobel Prize winner Steven Chu who was secretary of of Energy Current Secretary of Transportation Elaine Chao. It includes just an enormous array of talent people. Oh sorry I wanna say people might think oh well. They're Asian and so that's the model minority thing. No it's the fact that they are the children of immigrants. It's that which also include General Colin Powell you know Carlos Santana Edwards Standard Kit and you could go through a whole list of the people from Africa Africa the Caribbean Latin America who as the children of immigrants and refugees are the ones who saw the sacrifices that their parents it's made and want to pay it forward and so so that's one of the other you know the good the lesson from here. It's not only immigrants make America stronger. It's the children and the you know who also really want to make a contribution for the safety that their families got. It's my turn your turn for the good good mine mine would be that the for anybody who picks up and and picks up their entire lives and and go somewhere completely different implants roots there. It's where you get. It's really extremely where you really get to see the deficit definitions of community that happened even more so than our respective points of origin. I think where you really get to see people find one another help one another other and you've you whether it's a Chinese American whether it's Chinatowns or finding community in a church or or my parents uh-huh korean-american Church you really get to see the support systems in the way people really find one another. I was telling you Helen before we started so you know my my my last. Year was the forty fifth anniversary of my mom. I arriving in America as nurse in the seventies she I knew she knew she didn't know anybody which came up she knew. Ham people handful of people from nursing school but with those handful of people she you know created a community immunity in you know in in you from there kind of branches out and the roots become a little stronger but you really see that resilience and that depends on each other and then it it it lays the groundwork for what we call the Asian American community today you know we have concluded round one and the good we want to talk about the bad now and I think what we'll do is I'll throw a bad and then you can do your bed and then we'll have in your bed and then we'll do one last round which went on you but so the the bad of migration I mean this is lesson bad of migration nation itself and more about how it is thought of or considered I mean on the one hand yes. There's there's no question that the American dream and this notion of of immigration as as an aspirational thing for this country is is at the very heart of a lot of why this country country has been successful I do I do think though sometimes that when we talk about migration we have to remember that nobody migrate somewhere where there weren't people already right eight and there is sometimes a a little bit of a erasure of some of the other ways that people have arrived here or have been here all along right so you know as we talk as immigrants. Sometimes I think we'll look we have acknowledged that the successes that we have the ability we have to build came a because there was an entire people who were brought here inland involuntarily who rose up and resisted and we're able to actually create rights for us so we can land here so we could make this possible and even before that there were people who were here already and for without the suffering of this country wouldn't even exist right without the genocide of this country wouldn't exist and you you know so those are things which I think kind of buffer larger context of of what migration looks like I do think that that's one of the big tensions when we talk about the as as immigrants and the children of immigrants that we don't always reach back and find those common ground points and those areas of of coalition and AH I think that's a particularly painful now because so much of the sort of more recent activation of asian-americans and immigrant asian-americans especially especially has been around things like affirmative action where you know it's been about backlash towards people who did make those sacrifices because people are trying to see the fruition of what they see as their American dream. I'm sorry that's a little heavy but we're in the bad phase. So that's where we go. Okay the bad for me. The bad I'm GonNa be the answer is racism look. I this is this is where I was born in. This is home. This is where I'm parents ended up in. This is where I was born. In who knows where the tides of history will take me but for all all I know I'm here for good and this is where I'm staying right what I've come to understand and slowly slowly says rally that I will not be fully accepted by everyone as the as belonging here is just it just would this his face and this and this body and who I am like there will be people perpetually and and my kids and so on who will always CIS as invaders as foreigners in some fashion and as much as I would like to see like we all dream of a day where like things will get a better and we'll all be accepted. It's like I've I've come to realize not in my lifetime and not down the down. The lines like I will not be fully fully accepted by. Everyone and I just have to realize well. That's and that's why we fight that fight will never end till I die. You know like this is who I am. I'm here to stay but it's a perpetual lifetime of just of fighting to to prove that you know wow so you said really bad. I agree bad and I and that they are part of the reality -ality and that you know every new crop or wave of migrants who reach here are coming here to survive. They are leaving something behind. They don't know what they're arriving to accept that no matter where migrants go anywhere in the world they won't be welcome so we're talking about trauma after trauma after trauma that's inflicted on people and that creates all kinds of mental health issues. I mean I feel like this whole generation honoration of this migration and every other one suffers from PTSD. You know that didn't have a name and doesn't doesn't get acknowledged treated and under the current rules of denying healthcare to people. It's also creating people who know they need need need health care and mental health assistance are not going to get it and so what are we doing but re traumatizing a whole group and the feeling that we will will never be accepted is also part of that trauma and I would just like to switch to a little bit of good though I have to say that. I don't feel L. quite as strongly that we will never be accepted because I feel like you know. The genie can't go back in the bottle. The immigrants are here. You know the forty one million that are here already are not going to be going anywhere and so we are Americans too and right and within the lifetimes of all of you who are students here. Your children in the demographics of this country is changing and that's one reason this all this stuff about make America again is a great again. I forget but you and why the white supremacy house is insisting on all of this stuff is because they think too Hark back to another day that cannot be and so the whole demography is going to change. It's going to look a lot more like this room and because of that it will change if we make a change. You're you're right. It's not going to happen on its own but that's why every one of us who has stories to tell should be telling these stories and and making sure that this whole master master narrative about you know the pilgrims and all that stuff you know that they weren't alone the pilgrims and there were many other people of different colors and backgrounds backgrounds who came to and that should be part of the narrative and that's what's going to make a change so anyway. I it's bad but I think it's it's not that bad. There's good in every bad and battery good in many ways but now we're at the stage of our game and I'd like to invite fill you you to begin. Give us that w to the F. something I was thinking about so so mine is about what we leave behind what is left behind and what is retained with ourselves when you know we in our families make the journey over here. I think about this because my family my parents emigrated to the United States from Korea in the nineteen seventies. I was just in career over the weekend actually a quick career for a friend's wedding but everyone always talks about how modern career is. My parents are stuck in the seventies right. They are in a one thousand nine hundred ninety. I don't they're stuck with so much of what they retained was what they let the the Korea of that era. You know what I mean and and you know the country has changed vastly since they've been gone into forty years have been gone. I always consider my parents old school but like in a lot of ways like they are really old school in that the old school like the old school school when new school without them and then they stayed there frozen in time. I think this is an interesting thing you know but the and then if if ever they entertained thought of going back Akkas lot of people tell us to go back right. They could never go back because where they came from. It's not there anymore so it's just a strange thing to you. Think about we always talk about our motherland and the old country and your country change too so what we leave behind is not very more. It's gone yeah and and I you know I'm actually going to compliment that because this is I think a very classic you know a classic impact on people who are especially children immigrants. I think which has its own. I think mental health context right that just as the world that our parents may have left left changed dramatically in their absence we you know brought up adjacent to immigration and sometimes with like little sips of the culture that our parents came from often do not feel as if we truly have those routes and understanding of where they came from the stories they have in part because they don't want to tell those stories right. My parents did not have a particularly traumatic migration that came enacted sixty five educated they came for graduate school and things like that but even so they don't want to talk about the the early days of struggle they don't WanNa talk about the relatives who did not actually manage to come out there that they're still supporting and and yet they do want me to go and rediscover those things and of course I know when I've gone back there much like you know your weekend trip to Korea man whatever we we also find ourselves displaced not so much because the culture has changed because it's never was ours to begin with not fully and that sense of being neither here nor there I think it's so so deeply permeates permeates especially second generation Asian American second generation immigrant nece right that it virtually defines the way we speak the way we think the way we engage with other people the coaching that we have to do even just to maintain our identity and of course the way we write and so much of that I feel in this book in particular is present that sense of of like discovering yourself by discovering these other stories so that's a little bit of a WEF's uninsured bad although it can be and now I'm GonNa. Invite you Helen to clean up and bring us home with your close it out. Well you know I I feel like every day I say W T F except I don't use the initials and you know even waking up today like what the F. and so anyway anyway. what are your this week has been yes well. I JUST WANNA say. It's the Watergate time all over again and so you know as somebody who writes history when you're in it you don't see it. This is a seventy year old migration. We are going through such an incredible historic time. Historians historians will write about this time of history. That is your time of history as a most shameful period and what the fuck of what's happening today really I guess you have to believe me out but we will but to your point about you know culture and so forth if we take a longer historic view about that you know for japanese-american migration there was a quite a a large migration that happened at the turn of the twentieth century so so now there are tourists from Japan that go to Hawaii to see how the quaint quaint Japanese-americans practice cultural things that they don't do in Japan and haven't done in one hundred years so it's like going to see the Pennsylvania Dutch accept what they're going going to see is like. Oh look these people who are Japanese American do something that we don't in Japan. Do you know and haven't done in one hundred years and in a way that's part of the that's part of the responsibility I think for those of us who are Second Generation Third Fourth Fifth Tenth Generation asian-american here to be able to you know educate and talk with the newer immigrants migrants refugees who have no idea what it means to be part of a society that has a much longer history than what they're familiar with and so so I I just think for everyone in this room that's part of what we have to do and if somebody would do that to the you know the new immigrant in the White House and understand what that migration migration means you know. Maybe maybe I'm not hopeful that would you know w t f some change there but looking to the future that all of you all all of we are part of you know. That's what it's going to take every one of us reclaiming our history our why we belong here y our stories are are every one of our stories are American stories and why they should be taught and learn and absorbed and and valued as part of American stories to that's what it's going to take and and W T F we should be doing that. Everybody yes so years from now. When you remember this day in history remember you all spent this day with with us. They call US Bruce and Helen. Thank you so much for being on Day caused Bruce. Thank you Phil Uh Helen. Where can people find you online. Social Media is social media. You know I'm old school so it's really hard for me to do social media people find me and facebook and I don't even know how to answer or Insta- now I know that's a word you into you but I have a website Helen Helen Zia dot com that's easy to remember and the latest activity around creating a movement around immigrants one nation a API dot com or org sorry. I told you I'm not good at this but one nation. Api you can find some of the actions you can be part of to due to make a change here and Jeff Yang. Where can people find you on twitter and pretty much everywhere else. I am urging spin and you fill Oh. Where can people find you can find me at angry. Asian man in on angry Asian Man Dot Com will that does it for this very special live episode of they call us Bruce. We WanNa thank think cal poly Pomona bear you down. Icho for for all your help and everything like everybody here who came out. Thank you so much you can find you can find us online at they caused bruce also social media but if you hop on apple podcasts and give us a rating review that'd be really helpful as well. Thanks so much next time. Thank you thank you. You've been listening to they. Call US Bruce with Jeff Yang and Phil. You our theme music. Zeke is by our producer. Nick Song they call us. Bruce's a member of the POTLUCK podcast collective featuring unique voices and stories from the Asian American community find out more more at podcast potluck dot com and thanks for listening yeah.
"Hey, welcome back to the real life pharmacology podcast. I'm your host and pharmacists air. Christianson. Thank you so much for listening in those of you who have left a kind review in writing Ma doing my best to, to make sure the, the content stays good and relevant. So today, we're going to cover sofas Salazie seen a brand name of this medication is offering, and it's category its pharmacological category is a five essay type compound in that stands for five amino salicylic acid derivative. Now what this medication is used for out in clinical practice. If you can remember that this drug is typically used for inflammatory type diseases autoimmune type diseases, you should be on the right track. Their most commonly, what I have seen in my practice is rheumatoid arthritis being used for that. Also definitely has a role or a have seen used in all stripped, colitis and Crohn's disease. So some bowel and GI type disorders there, and I have seen it used for psoriasis occasionally as well. So very common disease states that are definitely out there that you'll see in this drug can be used within the, the treatment algorithm. For those types of disease states. Mechanistically how this drug works and how it benefits a patient with these potential disease states. It's really not that well understood we recognize it can help to reduce inflammation, and it's theorized at least by a couple possible mechanisms so reduction, and inflammation is possible through tumor necrosis factor. In addition, again, this is theorized. It's not very well. Understood exactly how this drug works. Adverse effects, very important adverse effect. Very common adverse effect of a job said. So now Zia vomiting and because of this, this is one of the reasons why we try to divide up the dose in not give one big daily dose once during the day. So you'll often see this drug split up to is probably the most common spreading out of dosages that I see. So, you know, morning and evening, for example, in again, that's to kinda help ease that, that burden or that stomach upset that the medication can cause. There is a sofa component with this medication as you could. Well, guess, probably by the name, sulpha, Salazie, so rash, risk patients with assault allergy. We have to be aware of that at least in recognize and, and take a bit of caution with those type of patients that have maybe if had allergic reactions in the past, and, or skin reactions to other medications that may have a similar structure, similar component within them another adverse effect can reduce the absorption of folic acid. So if you remember full of acid, it's important for a bunch of different things, but definitely in the context of anemia full like acid deficiency can lead to development of anemia. They're so important to remember that aspect into think about that in a patient, who may be taking self cells Zine. There are some kind of rare or more serious unique adverse effects though. These don't happen very often, but they certainly can be pretty serious, so hypnotic issues. That's the first one I kind of think about so monitoring. LSAT's is going to be important there. Also rarely may see a plastic in Nimia and a granules toast us risk as well. Now, this can be exacerbated by patients who are on other medications, you know, I think of methotrexate as far as liver goes, a granules toasts us, you know, the drugs that can suppress the, the immune system, for example there. But again, for monitoring, we're gonna look at LSAT's for liver in CBC you might see a done periodically to monitor for those other things. Now a really, really important patient education, point that I do. See get missed once in a while is the onset of action of medications. And this is a drug that takes a while to work. So let's take that example of rheumatoid arthritis. This drug is not intended to treat and manage a rheumatoid arthritis flare, the onset of action is going to be usually multiple weeks. Three plus before you're going to start seeing some decent efficacy, and helping with those symptoms. So really early important educate your your patients saying, you know, this is not going to be a silver bullet. It's not gonna work right away. It takes some time to work. So good education point to remember, their fear of pharmacists or pharmacy student in the market for board. Certification material go check out method wanna one dot com slash store. S. T. O. R E. We've got geriatric certification study materials ambulatory care. Pharmacotherapy. Opium as well as linkup to are now flex material on our ex grad dot com. So go check that out if you're a nurse practitioner, physician med student nurse looking for clinical education on medications. Check out met at one one dot com slash store. We've got audible books there that are for free. If you've never had an audible book, definitely a cool thing to, to take advantage of their if you haven't been on audible member before so get met at one one dot com slash store. Wrapping up on drug interactions. Today, a few that I, I wanted to mention with salsa cells, specifically did Jocson, self sows in can actually reduce the concentrations of Jocson so on to note there. I definitely think of drugs, that have kind of compounding adverse effect. Acts and an example here would be elevation and LSAT's. I mentioned you know drugs like methotrexate, maybe an ice Nyas Zib drugs, that can also impact in and damage liver may have kind of this combination or additive type of fact that we should especially be careful for. And, and maybe monitor even more closely than we would with a patient, just on solve salvaging the full like acid thing. I, I did mention there so important to potentially supplement. If a patient is deficient, and or has other risk factors of being deficient with a full like acid. There is a minor risk of increased bruising and bleeding with the anticoagulant knocks apparen-. So that is something that would recommend to be mon-. Richard as well. And again with these drag interactions, I really try to highlight important things common drugs that are out there and clinical practice. This is not an all inclusive list by any means in that's for any of the podcasts that you're listening to so important to remember that. I try to highlight some important ones that you might come across and relate that information to you, as as best I can. I'm going to wrap the podcast up for today. Thanks so much for listening. If you are kind enough and enjoy the Bod cast, definitely take the time go leave us a review on, I tunes. It's greatly appreciative. You can track me down air christianson on linked in also on the website, real-life, pharmacology dot com. We've got that free thirty one page giveaway. Simply for subscribing of following the podcast when we've got a new podcast available and war. New announcements two different products and things like that. So go check that out. Snagged out for free at real life, pharmacology dot com signing offer today. Thanks so much for listening. Take care and have yesterday.
This Week in Nerd November 18 2018
"I'm joy stagner of Zia comics talk nerdy to me. And you're watching this weekend. If you're wondering why I look a little scruffy with the neck beard here. It's because it's no shave November. You don't get a haircut or shave during the month of November the money you saved by not doing that. You donate to cancer research. I implore you guys, even if you do shave during November to please us that this is a good excuse to go and donate to cancer research starting out on a little bit of a sad note. Here two time Academy Award winning screenplay writer, William Goldman passed away age of eighty-seven you if you don't recognize that name he was the screenplay guy for. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance kid, but you probably know him from the Princess bride. He wrote the novel ended the screen adaption for that movie as well as some other really popular movies, like Stafford wives marathon, man, and all the president's men, Mr. Goldman, you will be missed another icon. Ick figure in pop culture passed away this past week STAN Lee died at the age of ninety five. He was probably the biggest ambassador for comics. Everybody knows Stanley just from his Cam news in the marvel movies. If you ask somebody who's not a big comic fan to name one name associated with comic books more times than not they're going to tell you Stanley, STAN Lee was instrumental in a lot of the earlier comic book titles and characters being created. He was very motivational very instrumental in a lot of. Comic books being brought out to print, and he will be sorely missed recipe Stanley for I guys this is getting me excited on thanks giving. A lot of people are either. Watching the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade or football game. Or there's not really a whole lot out there for us nerds. Until now, I have see is going to have a twenty four hour marathon of pee wee's playhouse. That's right. Forty five episodes of the the five seasons appeals playhouse plus the Christmas special go to be run back to back on. I of see this show a all used to love pee wee's playhouse. I I had the little action figures I knew every character on there. I used to actually get excited for the word of the day and try to catch it during the show. You're you're going to see lords Fishburne too. If you watch his marathon, he played cowboy Curtis in the pee wee's playhouse f. Episodes. Like, I said man, Paul room. Is this show was for me was just I loved it. I couldn't get enough of it. And now, I hope they make this a annual marathon. Because may and I can only watch so many blooms floating down New York. And you know, I I've kind of grown out of watching football. I don't get as much into sports anymore. So this is a welcome addition to my thanksgiving ritual. Thank you. I have see I told you guys a couple of weeks back about the new doctor who was Jodie Whittaker. I'm warming up to it. I kinda I love doctor who starting with ninth. Doctor with EchoStar Egleston will always be my doctor in my book is the best Dr ever, although Smith attendant were really good. I did really like them. But Eccleston was just he was my first man Eggleston broke my doctor who cherry loved Eccleston, math mess with David Tennant were really good. I kind of fell off the doctor who boat with capacity, I couldn't really get into capacity. I don't know why he's a great actor. I just I didn't get into his episodes. I've been watching I jumped back on with this new its first female doctor. So far, not bad. I can't complain about it. It's whole new set of villains were I got kind of tired. How many times can we see the cyberman and the dollar six, and you know, maestro. They're dreaming up. Some new new. Things to put her in new trouble vertu get out of she's she's a pretty good doctor. She's just quirky enough. I kind of done without the really quirky outfit. But hey, you know, the had to do something to make her different. Don't mind it a doctor who is known for Christmas specials until this doctor the breaking the mold with her again, there won't be a Christmas special for this doctor. They are instead doing a New Year's day special January first they're going to show the new special. I I believe starting on Christmas either going to start doing all the Christmas specials leading up to her New Year's day special. So that's something new doctor who on New Year's day new doctor who New Year's day who who years day. I'm okay with that. I also got a little tired of seeing those stupid robotic Santas the first couple of times, they were cool. Then you know, there's only so many times you can rehash those villains. Let's put them to bed. Get some new villains. So doctor who New Year's day. I'm watching it comeback titles of had a lot. Excess translating into movies and TV recently. We've had all the marvel Netflix series DC streaming service with their animated stuff is killing it. The marvel movies are doing awesome DC on a lesser scale. We're actually going to see some of the independent stuff with bloodshot from value is getting its own movie through Sony. They're dirt they're digging a little deeper out of the superhero room. We're going to get a adaption for TV of sweet tooth by Jeff Lemaire, still one of the big titles vertigo, which is owned by DC. So I consider that one of the big titles. They are associated with DC water. Sweet tooth is a very interesting post apocalyptic world, this guy who is a human deer hybrid is trying to just survive, and it's following his his life in this post, flexible, dick world, very well ridden. Jeff Lemaire is a is a really good writer. If they adapt this good. I'm waiting to see how they're going to do the CGI because like I said he is a dear human hybrid. So we actually has Antlers in in the deer ears. So was going to be interesting to see how much cash they threw into the special effects to make this believable. Great comic book can't wait to see this on the small screen on TV. I believe it's going to be on Hulu, probably Hulu exclusive, the Hulu, and Netflix, and those guys are really getting into their original content. They want you to have a real. Reason to subscribe to their streaming service can't blame them. So they're going into some of this comic book world that hasn't been touched. But no non superhero comic book world looking forward to it goes on you, Hulu for taking this jump and going away from superheroes into the different area of comic books. Can't wait. Another comic book is being made into a movie birds of prey, I've talked about that if you times now also great casting on this. It looks like it's going to be awesome. They have announced another person who is going to be playing the young Cassandra Cain in this. And it is none other than L A Bosco at the name Bosco sales. That's because her uncle is Dante dont they played. And hook. He's famous for that role. Dante we've had him at a few of our cons. Great guy, really down to earth. Good with the fans. Everybody seems to love him. He's really really proud of his niece and goddaughter eligible Bosco getting this role. He's gone on Twitter. And I'll go on online social media to to brag on her and an SE should man. Good on you, Dante and congratulations to L A seems the trend lately is to take a lot of the old Disney cartoon titles and make them live action. I mean, we've had jungle book that did really. Well, they're getting ready to do another one. Not sure what I feel about this. I I was kinda skeptical. You know, I I looked at it. They're making a live action Dumbo. With the CGI elephant that can fly. I I was really really thinking. This was gonna suck until I saw some of the names attached to this. This thing is going to be directed by. Tim, Burton guy should know that name. We also have Michael Keaton Colin Farrell, Danny devito, those three names along with Burton, directing it. I gotta think it's going to do. Well, I mean, I, you know, I was also skeptical about jungle book, and I just I love jungle book that did great nail out of big names attached to it as well. Dumbo great tragic type story. Lot of sad parts and Dumbo along with some good humor. And and laugh parts. Burton is really good at that kind of Macab melancholy type thing. So I'm hoping that he hits another home run with Dumbo looking at the trailer for Dumbo who we can see Michael Keaton is playing he's doing really good at playing the villain lately. You know, he stole the show spider. Man. Homecoming is the vulture without him in there that movie would have been completely different. I don't know how anybody else could have done it better than he did. He actually made me root for the vulture vulture in comics was a throwaway type villain some old Geezer dude in a green suit Keaton made Volkher scary in homecoming. He plays a rich entrepreneur who wants to buy the circus after they figure out Dumbo confli kind of a another villain type. He is just done. So well as villains I can't wait to. Be. So I want I want them to surprise me with Dumbo at how good it is. So March twenty nineteen coming up this spring. I will probably do a review on Dumbo. You can check out that review and see what me and everyone else thinks about Dumbo just when you thought you were done with the leprechaun. They're bringing him back December eleventh, I believe it's going to be on digital and on demand. They're bringing back. The leprechaun is believe it's called leprechaun returns. The I watched the trailer for this thing. And yeah, is is just as as bad as the previous leprechaun's. But you know, what I probably still going to watch it the whole idea behind this leprechaun is I guess to get rid of him. They had thrown him down a well where he couldn't get out before these sorority girls. Get a house way off the grid. Not just off the grid. I mean off campus and off grid its way out there in the middle of the woods. Not sure how that works was sororities. I thought they try to get as close to campus as they could don't know why these guy these girls decided to go off campus. There's no trinity. No phone, no WI fi access. So they're completely like I said off the grid. They're buying this place. They're going to put in solar power, and blah, blah, blah. Aw. Well, this house that they're working on is also the one where they through the leprechaun down the well because like I said off the grid. So they didn't have running water. They had the will. Liberal con thinks are going to steal his gold. So he knows somehow he pops about the well and causes causes havoc. You know, he he will kill anybody trying to get his gold. The leprechaun series has over five movies in it. I can't even went to space in one of them deliver kind of space you had leprechaun back to the hood. This is not a series of takes us seriously. It's playing on the camp. And the the quick scares a lot of jump scares. But it works for some reason it works, and they keep you know, as long as they keep making money. They're going to keep making more. And at this one does well, guess what you're going to see another leprechaun back to the well laws accused making money. You've noticed that all these companies are starting to get their own streaming services. Youtube is starting to go veer off from that. They're not doing a whole lot of original content, although they did make Cobra KAI, which if you haven't watched Cobra KAI on new. Bread is a great nostalgic throwback. Good good feeling show. You get the feel of the old karate kid stuff. But it's a it's modern because they've grown up it Cobra KAI great show, watch it. But like I said YouTube has veered off they are not doing a whole lot of original content. Instead, they're going to start showing movies for free on YouTube. So and how they're doing that is these movies and their their names you've heard before to like Terminator in rocky. They're available now for free, and they are going to sell ads on those movies through YouTube. They have nearly one hundred movies in this adds appointed format. A lot of them are classics like I said Terminator in rocky. But you know, some of them are your more be list type movies like zookeeper and Codey banks believe it or not people still watch those especially if it's for free on YouTube. You can watch YouTube on your TV now and your your smart device. A lot of people watch on ipad or their phone, even and they're selling you can get ad space on these movies. Just like you're buying a regular YouTube bed. You know, buying the licensing for these movies. And then selling aspects on them is probably going to be a lot more cost effective for you to than to develop their own original content. Somebody else has already done the heavy lifting and may. The movies for them. Like, I said, you know, not all of them are big blockbusters, but they're still movies that people watch that they will watch and people will buy ads based on them. It's thinking outside the box of for you to instead of trying to compete with making original content. They're just gonna use accountant it's already out there monetize it. Smart. Good on you DisneyWorld and Disneyland will have a Star Wars section starting sometime next year. They're going to have such cool rides. You know, there's going to be the millennium. Falcon, there's going to be all kinds of Star Wars characters walking around in the park is just going to be a fully immersive Star Wars experience so much. So they even got John Williams to do the score for the part. Now, not for a movie he did the score for the park. John Williams is great at capturing the emotions. Of the scenes in the movies. So now, he's doing the same thing for the park, the different areas of the park are going to have his music that may especially for the theme park to bring out the emotion of that. They're looking to Lissette from that section of the park as just, you know, ten Disney's attention to detail. I think that's going to be a great touch. John Williams is a mastermind with music. I can't wait to see some of these rides are going to be pulling out. I'm a huge Star Wars fan and Disney fan. So looks like my vacation next year is going to be planned around DisneyWorld. Disneyland one of the two because I am going to go. See this new Star Wars exhibit next year. We're going to be getting a new bellboy movie were they knew hell boy. As a matter of fact, rum Perlman is this has been publicized. This is not news. He's out is hell boy, David harbour is the new hell boy. You know, David harbour from stranger things he was the sheriff. He got in a little bit better shape to be hill. Boy for the movie. He pulled it off, man. I I saw some of the pictures the set pictures and. Yeah, man, he he does look like hell boy. So March twenty third of twenty nineteen is going to be held boys next the Atra call release and to celebrate that it's also be the twenty fifth anniversary of hell boy hell boy came out in ninety four debuted Mike Bonilla's character. They're going to doing a big comic book push. They're re-releasing a special edition of hell, boy, CJ destruction number one. There's going to be a participant count bookstores. They're going to have a lot of other stuff. This celebrate the twenty fifth anniversary as well. So far they've announced along with the seeds of destruction re-release they're going to have a temporary tattoos. You can get right hand of doom bookmarks and all kinds of stuff to decorate the stores. Like, I said the hell boy day happens March twenty third of twenty nineteen your local comic check your local comic shot. See if they're participating. I knows the comics will be and the film comes out in theaters on April twelfth at a first day. They'll pass a Comecon for us. So I probably won't get to see it opening weekend. But Mark my words that very next week. I'm watching hill. Boy earlier this year, we had action comics hit the big milestone one thousand there was a huge to do about it. You know, superman in action comics that thousand issues is is quite a lot man superman has been around since late thirties. They have another one of their trinity is going to hit that milestone here next year. I believe in March Batman detective comics number one thousand they couldn't have a party for superman and not have one for Batman. So detective comics one thousand is going to have some big things happening is going to be batmans eightieth anniversary or detective comics eightieth anniversary. They're going to release too too. Big books to celebrate this detective comics number one thousand it will have multiple stories in it, your you got the incoming guys to mossy and monkey are going to write and draw. The lead story for detective comics one thousand you're going to have additional stories by Geoff Johns. Big name. He he basically is DC right now. Brian Michael Benda's who they lured away from marvel and gave him the keys to superman. He's going to be writing a story in detective comics. Paul Dini, Christopher priest. Dinio Neil, Neil Adams, Neil Adams, iconic iconic artist Kelly Jones, destined win, Alex believe and more this issue right now as stands they're talking about ninety six pages, if you take into consideration, a typical comic book is twenty two twenty four pages counting cover. This thing is going to be no three four times. The size of a normal comic is going to be more of a trade. Paperback type looking dislike with action comics with the thicker covers I'm imagining they're going to do multiple variant covers with action comics, they did different covers for each of the generations. You know, the thirties forties. Fifties sixties up to the recent time. I gotta think they're going to do the same thing with Batman detective comics number. Number one thousand huge milestone, considering a lot of comics anymore. Don't make it to their second or third year before they get cancelled seems like only the big ones make it past a couple hundred so a thousand that's eighty years for the of stories, man. That's a lot of stories. I'm glad that they are not going to let him turn eighty without some kind of party. He loves good for an eighty year old detective comics March it'll hit issue number one thousand star saving your money now because these variants I'm sure are going to put a big dent in your wallet. They're also gonna do detective comics eighty years of Batman the deluxe edition. I'm hoping that's going to be in hardback. That'd be that'd be a cool one to put on the shelf in the looked really good there as always thank you for Washington's video mash that. Bell? I kinda get notified whenever I uploaded new video. If you're one of my auditory, only, France subscribed to me on your favorite podcast platform. I will see you next week later nerds not with me pain that you. You play. All each.
How This DOJ Strike Force Hunts Down Cryptocurrency Criminals - Ep.195
"Hi everyone look into unchain your no hype resource for all things Crypto I'm your host Laura a journalist with over two decades of experience. I started covering crypto five years ago and as a senior editor at. Forbes. Was the first mainstream media reporter to cover cryptocurrency fulltime. Subscribe to unchained on. Youtube where you can watch the videos of me and my guests go to YouTube dot com slash cs slash unchained podcast, and subscribe today. CRYPTO DOT COM, the crypto super that lets you buy spend crypto all in one place earn to eight point five percent per year on your BTC and more than twenty other coins, Delo the CRIP DOT com now to find out how much you could be earning. Today's guests are Magistrate Judge Zephyr rookie and Jesse rooks assistant US attorney in the National Security Section at the United States Attorney's office. Welcome Zia and Jessie. Thank you. Thanks for having us. You've prosecuted a number of federal criminal and civil forfeiture cases including cryptocurrency, involving cryptocurrency, including some of the most well known ones such as the welcome to video case, which led to the take down of one of the Web's largest child pornography sites, and in case involving the North Korea affiliated Lazarus Group plus another one involving Hamas and August humber gays how did you to come to prosecute so many cases involving cryptocurrency I I can go first and then I'll let Zia sort of explain because our think our roots are actually very different I started and cut my teeth superior. Court. Division at our office prosecuting mainly domestic violence in sex offense cases. During my time prosecuting sex offense cases I learned an expertise in the revenge porn world, which is where individuals sort of US cyber techniques to put out a explicit photos of people that either broke up with them are upset them in some way and I got really interested in the cyberworld and then when I moved to the National Security Section I was lucky enough to team up with Zia who had already. Developed this amazing expertise in this field and from there sort of took off Zia and his team that he had developed, and then I got to jump in and help develop as well on had created this amazing world that's leading the forefront of DOJ in these kinds of cases. Sure thanks a bunch So as you said now judged I'm no longer prosecutors I can speak not in my role as a judgment talking about as a prosecutor. Starting in two thousand eight until September eleventh twenty twenty was prosecuting cases what led me to the path of cryptocurrency was my focus was on money laundering an asset recovery for victims? And it seemed very clear. Up early on, there was like people were started lottery money in second life or their. Initial. Sort of trend of lake is virtual currency Something that criminals would get into a and one of the most things about being a prosecutor is seeing the ingenuity of criminals I. Think they're funny new and fascinating ways, and you're like Oh man if they'd only. Channel. These powers for good think of all the things they could do, but it is it's like a game of chess between. Prosecute. Investigators and people who are violent long there. You're always trying to catch up keep up with them, and so you know several years ago about like five or six years ago. Another couple prosecutors over from Maine Justice are particularly all poker and then Jesse also worked with other colleague Chris Brown who's at the done a lot of Vais cryptocurrency cases including currently cases that are charged in the district court. Mixing cases and things like that out. We all just sat down like we we need to have like a more coordinated way of coming out this problem at in different agencies of different expertise. Irs is at the forefront. They're super smart about getting in working the blockchain h asides really good with undercover FBI national security portfolio, and so out. We kind of formed their own informal strikeforce, which we call because we thought sounded coal, we wanted to make t shirts instead strikeforce so. That it was I think like anything in federal service like there's a lot of elbow room to kind of a grow and try out new things and you just want to find people who are mission oriented and like excited about trying new things and so we were able to kind of organically find a group of people are interested in crypto currency and kind of. Each different strengths that we could play on each other Oh I like this strike forcing it doesn't sound exactly how like government normally working imagine it would typically be very bureaucratic but I like that idea that you just called it back because it sounded cool. So. Let's Jive, or before we dive into the details on these cases, let's actually just establish some facts for the listeners 'cause I. Even before you know researching this I didn't really know some of the stuff but most if not, all of these cases are civil forfeiture cases, what is civil forfeiture and what happens in a case like that Sure. Though The civil forfeiture is interesting because it's so different than your normal criminal case like a criminal case, it might be the United States versus the rookie that's against a person but civil forfeiture is against the thing it's you know United States versus two hundred and twenty cryptocurrency council, United States versus one Ford Truck. It's a way to go after things. It's less punitive way of enforcing the law. You don't have to actually arrest person and tried to take their property. You can just go directly against the thing and then people. You know the burden of proof is on the government but that people can come forward and say like actually this thing belongs to me and there's a process by which the court says like has the government met its burden of proof to show this was involved in the crime or proceeds of crime, and if it is in the person slows the Defense Azali look I had no idea someone was using my car commit this crime I had no idea someone was using my bank account to do this, and then they get the property returned to them if they can prove that. And if I could just add, there's a whole spectrum of civil for driving it can start as small as someone. Forfeiting your property and after they sees it, you know at a at a stop of some sort to the kinds of cases that we deal with, which is seizing domain that might be proffering terrorist terrorists, finance or child pornography. So there's a whole range you know can differ in many ways but at the end of the day, it's a civil forfeiture kind of action. And so I, and maybe this is sort of just part and parcel of what we were just discussing but. You know like if you know that a certain person is affiliated with one of these properties than why wouldn't you just make that person defendant is that just a different type of case or how does it work when when you have that connection? Sure well, I can start and Zia, if you WANNA go from there and add to it there's a lot of reasons for it. First of all, there's a different level of proof. For civil forfeiture and criminal charges, and in most importantly probably goes to Zia just said, which is that the civil action is against the property, not a person and the criminal action is going to be against a person and with a criminal action, you have to prove a men's Raya. You have to prove which is an intent that goes with each statute, and there's a lot of different steps that go with that that lead to our high burden of proof that you know the government takes on proudly. But with civil forfeiture, it's the property like. What is about this property that was involved in wrongdoing in some way? So there are a lot of considerations that sort of differentiate the two and there are a lot of nuances that help prosecutors decide whether they want to go the civil route, the criminal route, or you can dual track it as well. The one the one thing is that you know there's a lot of people who are commented about Department of Justice actions that they They do what's called name and shame indictments were there may be someone in North Korea or they may be someone. In Syria that they can't actually get their hands on the actual person it's like, what have you accomplished by doing that and so civil forfeiture is important because it's an actual to have concrete disruption in national security cases where in the kind of name and shame. That that person's life is not necessarily impacted in the civil case like it. You might know someone in North Korea has stolen these funds and things like that but they're not they never leave North Korea what is the point of criminally charged him necessarily but the civil actually go and sees the Fund, you're actually able to get the money out and there may be instances many instances where you take the less punitive round of civil forfeiture because what is the point of adding those additional resources to criminally charge someone that you would never get a chance to actually prosecute you can't criminally prosecuted someone absentia they have to actually be present in the United States in the United States district courtroom. I mean. So now let's turn to some of these cases There's one pretty interesting one. In which the government maybe. At least you know from your. From your work were able to run a terrorist website for the first time. And that was a involving a Moscone. al-Qassam Brigades. Why don't you just start by describing who they are? Sure the al-Qassam Brigades is the military wing of Hamas and their designated terrorist organization by the US government, which lends itself to certain types of restrictions, which includes sanctions and. Give any materials for to them the material support charges. So that designation as it is important, and in that case, it was sort of part of a larger campaign that Zia I lead against taking down and dismantling on three separate cyber oriented terrorist campaigns. To that directly involved in crypto involved cryptocurrency on one that tertiary involvement. And what were they doing with cryptocurrency? Sure. So each of the three terror groups was acting distinctly but to speak specifically to al-Qassam, brigade, since that's what you raise in that case and it all sort of started on twitter but the al-Qassam Brigades put out an announcement on their twitter publicly asking for bitcoin donations from their supporters. And what it started out with was a static address for the supporters descend to, and then from there we and the DOJ and our investigatory partners at irs and hi were able to watch as al-Qassam Brigades developed and learn more about cryptocurrency. So eventually, they shifted their finance campaign from twitter to their websites, which were al-Qassam dot net al-Qassam dot ps and Qassam dot P. S., and on those websites they started to say, hey, supporters, send us your Bitcoin by clicking on this and an. On, those websites it was just a static address but reportedly to avoid any government and law enforcement detection, they then changed their techniques and started doing dynamic addresses. So each individual who wanted to donate would click on the website and an address would be generated for that supporter to donate to and so throughout that process, the terrorist group was able to raise a lot of money from supporters all over the world. Through a lot of work from our amazing law enforcement, they were able to track both the addresses that the Qassam Brigades generating on this website as well as all the addresses that we're sending to it. And then through our work there including multiple different legal techniques, we were able to determine how the website itself was run, and from there through judicial authorization was able to run the website for thirty days and how that exactly worked was that. As part of our seizure action, which is related to the civil forfeiture, we seized the domain and sometimes when you seize domain. The domain name just is transferred to a splash page run by the government. So essentially, a splash page that says, this website was supportive of terrorists or supportive of child pornography, and so it's now the government. But in this case, what we did instead was redirect the website to a government run website that was an exact mirror image of the prior terrorists website, and through this, our law enforcement and the government was able to run the website for thirty days and during that time. People continue to visit the website and donate money to the al-Qassam Brigades throughout this until after that thirty day period when we filed our civil forfeiture complaint and the splash page was put up. And just to go back to spill it out for the audience, sue why was it that they switched from just one particular To these dynamically generated addresses because you. Know because she went their money right through the cat-and-mouse. Sorry go Jesse Yeah, I mean at the end of the day like terrorists are trying to avoid law enforcement detection too and they're learning while we're learning and they can tell that we're investigating their cases were freezing. Their assets were starting to figure out what's going on here, and so we began to work with virtual exchanges to freeze assets and from there They. decided that they need to change their techniques and you know terrorists, stirland financial institutions they still do, but they're developing, and now we're learning more about cryptocurrency there. We're watching them develop more and more learn more and more about cryptocurrency, which is in this specific case, they moved from static to dynamic, which is much more difficult to track. But because we sort of already knew what was going on, we had a head start. And how were you able to find all the addresses that the generator was creating plus all the addresses that sent to the I mean well, I guess maybe a partisan as hard once you have the address but. Magician never reveals herself. To tune into the sequel podcast. When we we give the peek behind the curtain but I think it's just The tremendous work, the RS agents, Christian, Chessy, Agent Bill Cap. Rather these guys were working a ton with the FBI partners to go through in really figure out you know what was going on the sophisticated tools you press release that was a reference as well. Genus has done a couple of presentations on the day participated exigent was another contractor. So I think it was just looking the agent spend a lot of time working. It's not like. There's no one trick that just it's work right there working with using the legal tools just was saying search and seizure warrants to email content or get financial records, subpoenas, leveraging relationships with overseas partners, and then you know undercover work as a little bit of everything. And I think something that was really special about this action and the follow up ones is that it was an agency effort all run by people that actually really care and are interested in cryptocurrency in who sort of believe in what cryptocurrency is trying to do. So we were all just trying to figure out who the bad actors using cryptocurrency and how can we attack them because the DOJ and these other agencies are just trying to understand these virtual assets and make sure that they're not for bat. An earlier when I asked him about on Qassam Brigades you said there were also other groups say what happened with those? What were the how were they using Bitcoin cryptocurrency? Sure so I can speak to that. So there were two other campaigns that were rolled out as part of this large dismantling that and I lead along with our law enforcement. So the second one was al-Qaeda and they were using telegram. So what was another interesting thing than cryptocurrency is that in all three of these actions, the terrorist groups were not only relying on crypto currency. But also relying on social media and new techniques, just sort of showing how they were becoming smarter when it comes to using cyber tools. So al-Qaeda through on telegram was raising money for really violent causes I mean not being shy about what they were asking for money for you know pictures of weapons, pictures of military gear and seeking donations of different cryptocurrency to help support that. What was sort of a upsetting and disturbing about the whole thing was that a lot of the telegram channels were hiding behind charity names and so the they made it sound like it was charity for individuals that were refugees or people that needed help in. Syria. But when in fact, they were really just raising money through crypto currency for violent causes and so through. A lot of the same agents in the same sort of Inter agency effort that was similarly. A all these telegram channels were tracked, including all the different addresses that received cryptocurrency on behalf of these violent causes. So those were seized in sought for forfeiture as well in a separate civil forfeiture complaint. So that's the second one, and then the third one was an Isis covid related case, and so this was less centered around currency although there are some cryptocurrency involved with it but this case was similarly devastating in that it was isis taking advantage of the covid outbreak all over the world but particularly targeting the United States creating a website and multiple facebook accounts that linked you directly to this website that was selling fake PP and. This website was created pretty soon after Kobe started spreading pretty wildly in the United States and there was very little shame in that they were selling to customers in the United States that had reported to serve hospitals, nursing homes, such such things like that, and so through our action, same sort of interagency effort and just following the social media campaigns, we were able to seize that website as well as the facebook accounts as well. I actually just to go back and ask you know and this may be the case for all of them but I especially noticed it with the Qassam Brigades. He word naming an hosted bitcoin addresses in your complaint meaning ones in which the? Al. Qassam Brigades were the people who have the control of the private keys. So how do you seize funds from an address like that in which the owner is you know really just the person who controls the private keys. There's a couple of different ways we go after on host wallets. One is that we might be able to use legal tools like through warrants or through cooperator someone who could get us recovery scenes who or can get us a private keys out way may be able to collect that information ourselves and get that in other instances. It's more treating these stolen art model and so that we. Basically don't you think about what happens when famous aren't is taken out of museum is that by publicizing that that is something that is listed it collapses the resale value and it also allows you know. So the person who then maybe stole the Mona Lisa, it's. One hundred million dollars it's not worth maybe ten million dollars or fifty million dollars something much less. But then not only have you collapsed the resale value anyone that's legitimate that then does business with that they should be on notice and it's like well, you know the museum that then or the? Then goes revise it or something like that. If they fail to do their due diligence and knowing that there is a in the art world, there's a stolen art crime index like people check that first before they purchase it. They could be subject to. Potential money laundering or other criminal charges. So the same thing here with cryptocurrency dresses even for the on hosted wallets for the ones where the government can't go and recover through legal tools. You've only now reduced the value of it because that now people know on. The blockchain, right it's all public. You don't have to have this highly sophisticated stolen art crime index. It's out there for everyone to see on my Gosh Yeah this one address is allegedly party criminal terrorist team. I'm not going to if someone and local big quincy's me up and says, okay, I want to send you and do a currency exchange and I see what addresses coming from like you don't need to be some big bank with sophisticated and all provinces Sunday anyone can do from like the ease of their smartphone but moreover, crypto currency exchanges absolutely are looking at those addresses and that they're looking genesis lifting trm all these other big. Entities that are doing this sort of analytical work. They're highlighting those addresses and pushing it out to exchanges exchanges. Knowing this is functionally can affect sanctions Lewis, and what happens if they do something like send the money to a mixer or? You know I is that something where than the mix here would reject the funds or how does our? Think it depends on the mixer, right like no, no different than a cryptocurrency exchange, some their crypto currency exchanges that conduct no KYC, and in fact, our avowed in that they want people to comment bring their illicit proceeds there. The Department of Justice has charged a lot of those cases of the said a we have one here DC at Chris Brown and that team from Irs Matt prices charged involving the Grams Helix case in. So one of the allegations in those charges relates to alleged money laundering or you know when funds come in a not question the source of it. Absolutely I mean I think you know in these sanctions context or other ones. It's the financial institutions of the gatekeepers and so doj has gone after them. Right you can't necessarily get to the individuals because of the volume but what you can go to the gatekeepers and say look financial institutions and that at bottom is what makes her is that's what this recent decision from DC district said in that case but as well as from other cases and Vincent us as well. You when you're exchanging your financial institution, you have to do an hour and if you don't get prosecuted. and. So now, just to go back to the ISIS and our al Qaeda case I, wanted to ask a little bit more about that telegram group where you said that they were disguised as charity groups when people would go into the groups would they realize kind of what the purpose was of the donations or was that also masks? Once you were in the group? So a lot of this is spelled out in the forfeiture complaint which is public, but we can't possibly try and get into the head of everyone that went and visited or even the ones that maybe donated but at the end of the day. For, it was pretty clear from the postings when there's a if it's called a charity XYZ, the posting would have a picture of a weapon and so raise money for purchasing this or raise money for this cause. So we don't purport to know what every single person was thinking, but at the end of the day, it was pretty clear from these telegram channels, what the purpose was. I think dovetailing on that just really quickly. As Muslim American, one of the things that there's always go if you're donating to charity is this charity one that's actually doing what it says Frankly that's true everyone right like when you donate to charity opt in particular there have been charged criminal cases of charities in the past that were financing terrorism and donors sometimes like all my God I had no idea that's doing it. So I think part of the work that the team did here was. So important because there were these charities nominally that we're doing that where people may not know that right and I think again to the credit of Jesse in the team, there weren't donors that were charged right it was just going after the institution that was collecting the money but part of again like stolen art model now, people are on notice if you Google Churn do any basic sort of foundational resource research on it, you're going to see like Oh my God. Telegram channel like three or four layers down to see pictures machineguns I'll see that they were named in a government complaint. So I know that this is not like a safe space to donate funds to. And they were highlighting the anonymity and things like that, and so I think that it was Apparent. But now it is very apparent that what they were doing. Yeah that's something that fascinated me a little bit about when you took over the al-Qassam Brigades website. You know al-Qassam Brigades could have very easily just told people hey, we're not in control of that website anymore and I believe they tried to. So what happened then why did people still go there and use the site? Yeah that's so interesting and I remember we sort of worked through that before it all happened like what if this happens? Is it really worth it? Should we just put up a splash page, but at the end of the day, people want to believe what they wanna believe on the Internet and on we had a website that looked exactly like the website and if people wanted to think it was the same thing. Great. What actually happened was that the al-Qassam Brigades tweeted out. Using the methods of their original campaign financing that they're a website had been taken over. But at the end of the day, no one really knew if it was the twitter account that was hacked or the website that had been hacked and people continue to donate and part of it was you know maybe some people believe that and some people stopped visiting the website but we also wanted to sort of show that like the Doj knows what's going on here and when people go visit a terrorist website. We want them to be uncertain whether they're visiting a terrorist website or the DOJ and maybe hesitate before they donate money because one thing that's very important to us is that in these terrorist financing cases when we see money, it's we try directed towards this victims funds that's for victims of terror, and that's run by DOJ, and there's a few rules about how the money gets in there. But our hope is that at least a big chunk of the money that we forfeited here including from people that were donating terrorists both when the DOJ ran the website and when it was actually a terrorist website is going to be redirected to victims that have suffered. You know unimaginable crimes from terrorists and. So I, know we already just touched on this very briefly about the face of face masks center dot com, and as he mentioned the role of cryptocurrency here was fairly tangential but I still wonder so exactly how were they using cryptocurrency and I just find it fascinating that they used this crisis with Kovic to. To try, to perpetrate, the scam. Again that goes right to the ingenuity. They're always coming up with new ways and you know as Jesse said, the website sprung up just days after that Kobe crisis starting. So that connection to cryptocurrency is that Zubay ause was charged in New York about think like and a half ago and pled guilty, and so she was sending money to. The person who is identified in the forfeiture complaint and so. What what she was doing was that she was getting through Isis was getting stolen Pi people are stealing their precise identifying information and credit cards in particular use credit cards to buy crypto to laundry immediately turning around and sign a crypt exchanges and then that we having laundered so they can say, oh, someone asks him like where'd you get this money from the go? Well, I I sold a bunch of crypto right then you know law enforcement or banks or virtual currency changes looking one behind that will where did you buy that from Oostrum, the stolen credit card, and then that money was going to isis and so after shenanigans gets arrested, plead guilty about sending money over to the. Isis financier. This immediately springs out rain. It's like it's almost like a relay race thinking they had this one path of using crypto get stolen Pi and by Crypto. And then laundered. Consent Isis that's get shutdown is started this website and you would anticipate again on the website they were taking money any which way could come in. So one would anticipate. I. Think. There's some allegations potentially that they would accept cryptocurrency for the debate. PP. But more importantly it's the same scheme they want someone to send him their credit card information, send their Pi they think that they're going to be buying. A thousand. Masks but instead all they've done is given all that identify information to isis and that they would do the same thing. Again, use that to buy more crypto laundered again into Fiat and so that the goal is not to just make the fifty dollar fifty thousand dollars sale of the PP that's never gonNA comments to get that information and use that combined a bunch of Crypto, which they see clearly as a way to longer money quickly and efficiently, and then just get a good exchange even if it's not like a great rate, but then they've laundered effectively okay and put. I mean. You're seeing that that's their assumption night law enforcement won't go the on that one step of living at where the came from right that. But obviously, that's not the case because. Exactly. Exactly. we caught her but yes, that is the assumption often that criminal know money laundering at bottom is you're just trying to put a bunch of logical steps in between the illegality at the beginning where you are at the end and to try to hide how the money got there. But if someone the determined law enforcement team of the. Ages. IRS FBI team they continue to peek behind door one, two, three, four, five finally. Get there. At the end of the day, that's how they're able to. They see like, okay, there's an illicit source but. They're they're trying to go scattershot just put up one layer of concealment because that might be enough to get past the KYC checker an check in a bank or cryptocurrency exchange. I mean. So in a moment, we're going to talk about some cases involving North Korea, but first a quick word from the sponsors he made this show possible. CRYPTO DOT com the crypto Super App that lets you buy, earn and spend crypto all in one place earned two point five percent per year on your BTC download the CRYPTO DOT COM. APP. Now, to see the interest rates, you could be earning on BTC and more than twenty other coins wants an APP. You can apply for the CRYPTO DOT COM mental card, which pays you up to eight percent cashback instantly on all purchases reserve yours now in the CRYPTO DOT COM APP. Back to my conversation with Zia and Jesse. Prosecuted a case involving the North Korea affiliated. Group Lazarus. Involved two hundred and fifty million dollars worth of cryptocurrency. How were they able to amass such a large hall? Now. I mean, it's fascinating to look in the complaint again. It really details out. So we can't. Show here, but people go check out the press release is a copy of the a very detailed charts that the especially Christine just drew up, but it show is impressed by the Turks. I can't do. that. He heard you say that having some happier than that. He recently told his wife he was excited. Someone had talked about race where she was extremely unimpressed. She just doesn't understand him or get him, but I'll bet you do. So it's great and we do as well but. you know so that hack. Hack right and it was really interesting happened after a previous hack that's allegedly attributed North Korea is that they went to cryptocurrency exchange and said, Hey, you know we have a bunch of all clients or a ton of money they want to come invest it a with your exchange. We're just worried about these hackers out there and so we have an attached a questionnaire to his email that's going to review your upset and things like that. Make sure that. Yeah. Yeah. That that you. That you are in fact, secure and compliant, and so in many ways, they fail the test right one because they clicked on the attachment into because then. When the attach their head, a bunch of Malware, and so the complaint he tells the language and the script language that's used is consistent with how North Korean hackers have operated and other things within the complaint out like VPN's were able to be penetrated by law enforcement things like that where they were, they were able to treat it to North Korea but it's just again that sloppiness. Of It just takes one bad mistake by someone in the security team or the client cut relation team at crypto currency exchange that they were able to do a complete takeover and get to not only the outlaw small. So get to some of the cold storage funds, which normally think should be able to happen, but they just totally took over system and so from one. EXCHANGE RATE IN ONE BANK HEIST my favorite New Yorker cartoon that we use all presentations as a guy goes into rob a bank and the guys give the money because you know you can do this all online now right and so instead a one bank robbery, where is the risk of violence like you know the security there this is from the safety of the North Koreans. House whatever they're sitting in able to steal two, hundred, eighty, million dollars in one fell swoop, and then you see in other hacks and it's describing the complaint and the second related complaint that like they are out there just spearfishing all day everyday looking for people who are well known in the crypto world. Assume their identities are or to go after those people to take over there. Again, with the goal of hacking exchanges are getting access to exchange within get that kind of money. Yeah in general. You. Know they're taking just seemed. So basic isn't the word because it sounds unsophisticated on their part. But what I mean is it's not something where you need to know coding or have any kind of fancy computer programming knowledge. It's literally just trading on People's Gullibility or Yeah and so earlier though you said something about how it was in line with other North Korean I I didn't understand that what what was it about previous North Korean hacking behavior that lined up. So we looked at the actual malware. We got a copy of that from the victim and when examining that malware, the way that the scripts were written in it that allowed them to take over was consistent with other hacks that have been documented with North Korean. So we used a couple different things that US as the penetration VPN, and so the language in the script, all these things we statement they don't say at the end of the day it's North Korea but like the language that was used and scripts. addition. There was a couple of things where we looked at some of the. Other information that they were researching and some other things researching things about the North Korean military. So it's possible. It could be someone in Kansas who just happens to use the same. Script language and uses a VPN that traces back to a North Korean cell, tower, and also researches a lot information about the North Korean military but more likely right like that's reflective of the fact that it is in fact North Korean actors. And one other thing was that some of the money was these strange coins like Proton token and olive and but theory I've literally never even heard of these. So why would they do that? In the most recent complaint, you know there was alga tokens there was all sorts of. Different coins in. One of the things that Chris talked about in the complaint is the chain hopping that occurs in that they're trying to move from one change another take no different than when someone has steals money from bank, they might try to exchange it into euros bureaus into yen in Indian back two dollars because they think again, they're obfuscating the trail and to some extent they are right like we can subpoena. DOJ can subpoena. The US banks and things like that to get that information but it's much more challenging to get from foreign banks and things like that and so I think what Chris Talks about that most recent complaint is that part of what chain hopping has done is to try to break the public you know blockchain ledgers and try to divorce things out. So you can't see where things are moving from one currency to another, and so they use a really rare currency and remember they're willing to take pennies on the dollar like the reason that you in Jesse. Deal. In these coins because they may not have the ability or like people may not be interested in them or you might get a lot less bang for your buff. But when you have two hundred, eighty, million dollars like you're happy to get a fifty percent yield rate that is a a bank heist that is unprecedented right? If you get ten percents huge and so not only. Does it office kate what you're doing you know it may be an easier way to find some people who run to sell it. But what's interesting is that Chris Draws back in that complaint is that. Bitcoin right like because no one has heard of these coins and at the end of the day they do need to get the Fiat so they may go through all this gene opping and then they circle back to Bitcoin and that's where Chris Irish team bill the H. Aside team and Kyle and FBI team they're able to really leverage expertise in the known bitcoin to. Then figure out like wait a minute we can. You know going back to that example let's go back three, four four more to see where did this coin never heard from how did that fund and talk about that a little bit more like why it is that they always come back to bitcoin like you started to say it but it's flush out for people because. I mean. It's also the the blockchain that has often lead prosecutors like you to the criminals. So why would they do that? You know this is the question whenever anyone Jesse I talked. When I was a prosecutor about like our practice in the Fiat side of. You know terrorism financing north, Korean sanctions, violations all like a because North Korea was allegedly behind this thing in US dollars, they're subject to these punitive criminal penalties sees all their money and they always say like one reason. Why didn't they just use like Chinese. Euros in the answer. Should should've if they did we wouldn't have any case and there's always people like Oh my God well, they'll stop using US dollar because if you keep prosecuting this, it'll drive them to other currencies that people feel like that. They can get away with everything want to. But you know the that just never happened in the same thing with with Bitcoin is that you know you can buy a tesla with Bitcoin by subway with bitcoin. You can't buy them with those other coins that no one is hurt up and so. As they still chain hop to obfuscate at the end of the day they need to get this into Fiat currency that is still the point where law enforceable come in and where crypto currency exchanges really can be very robust in their key Y Z in the same thing is true for long forces that they are waiting and they see when they come back to to bitcoin because they want to buy things or because they want to get a better return rate or because you know people are like to sketched out like I never heard of this coin you have no trading history on like one of these exchanges and so like no way I'm not going to deal with this. It's too suspicious. But. If someone who has retreating history has ever done anything, but it's on Bitcoin, which is well known entrusted in like. Well, I'm willing to do that because everything's public and so like I feel safer and so I think for the reasons, the always come back to bitcoin. And I think just a hop off that something that's talked about a lot is that criminals don't WanNa lose their money either right and they wanNA rely on its tuitions that are or coins that are a little bit more stable and so at the end of the day, even though criminals might work in these other coins or may not have heard of they wanna get back to bitcoin. So they they can feel solid in whatever they have there. And so once they do have the bitcoin. As we mentioned. You often are kind of. Law enforcement is often notifying exchanges of coins or addresses that are associated with criminal activity. But how are they attempting to cash out like how is it? How easy is it for them to do? So when they have these stolen funds? There's a lot of different ways and a lot of different techniques that they use something that the DOJ frequently looks at is unlicensed money service businesses. So those are people that are buying selling funds whether they be crypto currency or otherwise without up correct licensing from the US government from Fincen, and so how that works in the crypto world is that there are these people that sorta take advantage. What zero was talking about is that criminals frequent lane just WANNA. Get. Pennies on the dollar, and so they do these transactions where each person that's running this business is taking a little bit in a little bit more and so they're hopping through these exchanges are hopping through these coins with the help of these unlicensed money service businesses, and that's one way that we're able to track. It is that there are some people that are organizations or businesses that are run by a few people that are doing a lot of this business for criminals. One thing. That's also interesting like to your question of that's the. That's how how difficult is it like it? It seems like it is in the goal of working like what justice doing it to make it more difficult, right? You're never gonNA, make it impossible but you just want to make it more difficult and I think that North Korea, the one that you talked about highlights that. So there after the complaint drops on like a Tuesday within forty eight hours, there's an amended complaint like so why did that happen and if? You look at the document it goes into what happened is that there were hosted addresses that had sat for over fourteen months with no activity. The complaint drops immediately they start going frantically trying to cash those out which caused the government to go immediately within forty hours and amend their complaints k. her these all these other addresses here's where they moved to move to, and that's different than like an adjusted experience or mind from like you know street level drug crime, right like. When you when the cops knock on the door, everyone's flushing everything down the toilet, throwing things out the window or just trying to get rid of it. Right everything's gotTa go fire sale, and that's exactly what they were doing this case of the North Korean. See what the complaint comes out Oh my God this stuff is really hot. We've got to get rid of it and they're just trying to push much out as quickly as they can before the exchanges catches up or. The government and they're you know it was within a matter of forty eight hours. All addresses have been identified sent back to the one or two exchanges was largely to exchanges that are reference there and you know the government tells them like, Hey, these are still the same people I think genesis at the same time. Did it a report where they talked about some of the new addresses that were coming out and warning people hey, here's where they're moving to now that's. That's what's incredible about like the blockchain. Rightly, if someone stole one hundred and fifty million dollars from a traditional bank right and they took that money in there there's nothing the public writ large could do. But after these tax you had people who are watching the blockchain and they say like, Hey, we're watching this happen right now live rightly, it is happening right now and they're publicly broadcasting that information. So it is why cryptocurrency in many ways is much worse vehicle for laundering money because you're reliant on Jesse in her team, you can have people were sitting at home and watching. And giving Jesse's abled outsource instead of just having her four agents. Now she has thousands of agents is all the people listening to this podcast? Yeah. This seems weird. Thing on the box and then they tweet about. Yeah Yeah, I have definitely seen online forms where people are watching stuff on the blockchain and commenting on movements in real time One other thing that I found fascinating about this case was that the North Korean hackers for also using stolen identities to try to cash out how were they trying to do that in? Where did they get those identities? Again to Jesse's point rightly, she described how Qassam evolve from a kind of basic not getting more and more sophisticated. And the same thing with the north. Koreans, right on the first complaint that their pictures in it of people you know some exchanges want to hold up. KYC with a picture right next year vase and that the agents were able show like if you looked at the t shirt and like the body was the same body, which is a different face superimposed and they able to identify those warrants and that's pretty basic right and that you see in the most recent forfeiture complaint that Jesse and while I was at doj that we did with our partners over Alden and Jessica Peck the OJ that. They started stealing. Right because that's way more valuable because that's an actual that will pass some of the KYC filters that that were picked up I'm like Oh this isn't a edited pdf like it's the same t shirt forget about it that has genuine, and so what are they get I mean the the complaints just referenced generally that you know the United Nations as reference that their pelvic reports North Korea's known to hack exchanges. There's no reason to think when they're hacking exchange stealing the money right? There's also something. Of great value. They're just like with Isis campaign. The Pi is just as valuable, sometimes as much of the money, and so they are going and stealing data in addition to stealing money, and you that those complaints highlight that they're using those for nefarious things and I think it also highlights cryptocurrency exchanges that like you can't just do the basic KYC inside like this real license like you need to say, like you know, do some follow up questions are talk to the person you know people like. skype and zoom chats now or they're talking to the person and it's not just like a photo Selfie Lake. So they can see because that is much harder to fake and get past ammo control. So I think you know industry will have to continue to catch up as long notes like your previous, Amil, a threshold, your basement that's not enough now get raised. Yet, and I just realized we've been saying and I don't remember if we told people with for stands for it's personal identifying information. So. One other thing I wanted to ask about was. Mentioned it multiple times during the episode but. You're you're coordinating a bunch of different government agency in often working with teams actually in other countries as well. So how how do you make that happen you know how do you figure out? What are all the different agencies that need to be involved or which other foreign partners you need and how do you get in touch and also how do you? Just. Make a so many people across different Governmental agencies as well as jurisdictions come together to prosecute these cases. I'll just start with that I. Mean it's all about finding the right people and as a prosecutor, your job is not necessarily to know every single detail of cryptocurrency or to know all the technical side of virtual currency exchanges. But your job is to make sure that you are working with the right people and that you're using different agencies for what they're best at and understanding that saw people have strengths in some ways and other agencies have strengths in other ways and at the end of the day and How I look at it and I, know how Zia looks at it as like raw on the same team, you know we just want to ensure that terrorists don't get money. We WanNA. Make sure that the CRYPTO currency and virtual currency exchanges are not abused so that terrorists and other bad actors can get money and so if you go into every meeting and every email with that mindset, everyone's GonNa WanNa, work with you and everyone's going to want to accomplish that goal because that's why we're know civil servants. And that's why we're going to work every day and so at the end of the day, Zia and Chris put together an amazing team, a strike force that I was lucky enough to be a part of and I will brag about Zia and Chris all day and and tell you how lucky I am to work with them But from there, we've been able to find people at a bunch of different agencies including Hsi Bill Capa rhinelander an FBI Kyle Armstrong and also just people at the DOJ that really have the same goal that we do and try to avoid bureaucracy as much as we can in order to accomplish this goal. One of things that sad about leaving you know I really enjoyed getting to have the opportunity to meet with people. So we don't we went to South Korea on the dark net, a child pornography case and in. Just really exciting to meet people from totally different backgrounds who have similarly motivated to like how can you try to make? The world a better place? Cheesy, but it's true like public servants I, think in those roles it crosses all boundaries and backgrounds and so like you know maybe something that you figure out late night over carry-on, we'll talk to. A prosecutor or a police officer in Korea The partners from Germany and from the UK and even here in the US like in the most recent action, it highlighted. That there was a partnership with the United States. Cyber common the Department of Defense and so I think you know what's so different and unique about the job that Jesse has on that used to work on his you are the kind of center that you're just trying to be. Fine all the right players put on the right on the chest Renton to advance the mission and that it's really fun to find those people because once you do it is organic. You can't just say like it's one formula out. But once it happens you, you go back to those people and they're just always wanted to make sacrifices in their personal life and work like they just want to. Get things across the finish line and they're so motivated that inspires you to work on it as well. Yeah, and actually we didn't really discuss it. I just mentioned it briefly about the welcome to video, which was I. Think one of your cases if not the first involving currency but actually, why don't you just talk a little bit more about how you guys were able to prosecute that given night you know the person running that site wasn't a foreign country. Sure. So I mean that and that's a good example of one where we leverage both criminal and civil tools because we wanted to criminally prosecute because we did think there was a person that we could get into the United States and do that, and so you know again it's the team at irs and homeland security agents out in Colorado Springs were working together to Jesse's points about relationships a we had a great relationship with the Korean National Police from a lot of the North Korea work that we did and so we told them like, Hey, you know the the irs after they did this great work and taking down alphabet with some of their other law enforcement partners. What's next and so Very, flippantly, I remember having a conversation between one of. The kind of people office work on these cases Red Board myself on we're like, you know what about child pornography in areas has a ton of experience in this. And so the irs came back Christian just like two weeks later. I haven't left my house in two weeks. I found a largest dark that child pornography. And we should take it down and remember wait. What are you talking about? He's like you told me to find a chopper I resigned because he said that's like the next big thing we should do and I was like, yeah, I mean I wasn't serious been. Okay. I guess that's just you know be careful what you ask for in so Quickly assembled a team again, this thing just talking about like you just gotTa get good people find them into Lindsay Sutton bird was an expert office on child sex offense crime. Yuli was an expert on cybercrime. We had the investigators can reset in Colorado and Tom Tansy and as well as Chris and then we got on a plane. We went to Korea, and we said, Yabloko enforcement partners they're. Each Asai who built relationships with the cream placement said like here's what darkness investigation has. They've never really done a big dark net investigation but like everyone else they're like oh my God when they. Don't want to get details very disturbing but this is mostly infant toddlers or being victimized, and so when people hear that everyone right almost everyone just like how can I help? What do I need to do? Tell me what I need to do I want to do this and so. We had partners from the UK and Germany as well. Came along particularly UK they were tracking on this and so kind of them on the case came back a couple of pretty shortly thereafter and did a takedown where there was a full like you know. Korean pleased. Went they to search warrant on the door found the alleged administering the site on the site logged on, which is always the key. The done a lot of things to try to protect the safety because they're actually been some customers that had committed suicide privacy previously after the discovered. So they were very careful of that and the US law enforcement was watching via alley remote to see what was happening in Korea and then immediately getting a forensic copy of the server. We know we did a search warrant which you can do the properties at a US embassy, and so we're in this space there and then just In the server there while we're there in Korea and starting to build up lead packages for the hundreds of customers who are on the site and found that like this. Why this is important is we found a new site and then we did prosecute administered that called. which was a site that showed not only child pornography but also videos of adults being raped are all women being raped on it being videotaped and at getting paid in theory and Bitcoin. So again because we found one customer insight, we then solid where else is he sending money to these? Typically, limited have it, and from that, we found this other site and led to spinoff investigations. There are twenty five children that were rescued from actively being abused because the irs agent follow the money right like because of the blockchain, he could follow the money the agents could go and you know explain all of that data with their partners from exigent a private company that they work with and. From that, there are twenty kids in her not being victimized tonight there's no better feeling in the world in that than saying, you know what is a concrete in that? You can show your work did well, here's what HFS IRS has worked it is that these these kids and their three hundred potential pedophile not on the street because of that. That's great. That's amazing. Work I also did an interview about that with Jonathan Levin of this right when the news came out in I willing to that in the show notes. So, how are you seeing the use of cryptocurrencies by criminals? Evolve over time. I think of. One thing is you know as at again, not a prosecutor speaking just in my. We never really looked to as much to policy of like that more like here's a case in front of us. We talk about what we see there but I think that we can give examples of what we saw right so. I'll jesse talk about the tariff finance campaigns but I can talk very briefly north as what we saw that they started I mean again I mean, you don't want to say it's basic because the yield is so large, but it's a bit basic i. mean if I saw North Korea would tell them their basic. And that? You, know. It is slowly getting maybe it's not an advanced yet but every day I'm there's there's there's steps forward because of Jesse in our team and their work that they're doing, and you saw that Lucien from no KYC to. You know very badly edited KYC fake to stolen Pi who knows what's next and so I think that's just one example evolution Jesse Ventura campaigns maybe some other examples sure and I mentioned this briefly before. But like the fact that the Qassam Brigades jump from static to a dynamic address generator, which is not easy technology to create on a website particularly that biggest technological jump shows that they learned something or they got some more information and you can just sort of watch you know I can't talk about really open cases, but you can see how criminals are starting to. Maybe just not direct deposit into the next address that they wanNA use, but using mixers using tumblers, but also just jumping through a bunch of intermediary addresses and learning how to explain that process to the court is something that we're developing as well on our side because as the terrorists learned, DOJ learns and virtual exchanges learn were all sorts of learning together and we have to figure out ways to teach the court as well that these new technologies are developing and that they're being used in improper ways and are you also finding that they're turning more to privacy coins. There's always the fear that right? I think that's hard to say, right that's in part by the privacy coins ever appeal but kind we talked about earlier. Even when they go to that is still end up going back to bitcoin because they need to cash out like they're not trying to just build up blanket revenue they're not trying to build up like a Federal Reserve, they need to spend money to buy things right and so. The. Extent that privacy coins. Become more widely used and I think they're going to. Continue to turn to that but as long as bitcoin theory of dominate and people are just using that I. Think. Again there's that these love to find someone rightly to engage in transactions either exchange with them or to buy the thing they want and people are nervous i. mean there's obviously like saw their software platforms. Some of the big exchanges don't take. They won't bank privacy coins and so I, think that's no different than some. You know big traditional banks will say like, okay like I'll take an yen renan be US dollar and euro, but not taking him like X. Y. and Z. currency from another country because like I just think it's not reliable. It's not safe like it's outside my risk appetite and so there's still a lot of that I think. And just jump off that I mean at the end of the day, what we're seeing criminals do is as crypto currency sort of expands and people know what it is more. They're able to target more people as victims or as supporters. So maybe ten years ago. If al-Qassam Brigade said, hey, supporters send me bitcoin. There wouldn't have been that many people who knew how to do that or really understood what bitcoin was. Now they can say, hey, supporters all over the world. Semi Bitcoin or if you think about the twitter hack like, Hey, let me just tackle these things and ask ask hackle these accounts and ask people to send us Bitcoin ten years ago. That wouldn't have been possible. So they're developing in that, the rest of the world is catching up understanding what crypto currency is and also that can be a a bigger way to hack into people's accounts and make sure that people are unbeknownst when they donate to these groups. One thing I also wanted to ask about is this new trend with defy, which is obviously really taking off and Some people are saying that this centralized exchanges could serve as mixers and make it easier for criminals in hackers to cash out what is your take on that and whether or not you know how do you think it is that the rise of defy could affect your ability to do this work? The gadget going back to the kind of previous you know we're limited talking about the cases we have seen unlike what we've prosecuted in. So predicting what will happen in the future as more like the people at Treasury Policy, Kinda folks, I think they can really speak to that. Obviously there's a ton of stuff right now defy and it's just so popular. So you know when anything like this happens right? Like eventually criminals tried to find a way to leverage that, and so I'm sure you're next podcast episode Jesse will be about a defy money hundred whether or not they act as mixing servants. Of Anything of, value to add. In. Yeah I just think that sort of void Zia's saying like the regulations in the laws need to catch up to this as well like as news services technologies are created, we need to figure out how they fit within the current regulations and whether new ones need to be made, and that's definitely a separate side of the government than us. But you know we're here to sort of watch and enforce as needed. And, I also just wanted to ask you know there was a couple of points in the discussion where one of you was saying that turning cryptocurrency is about idea for criminal because it's easier for it makes it easier for people like you to do our jobs but in general as we're seeing the rise of crimes using cryptocurrency, obviously there's this whole. Trend rid the ransomware, but you know that we've got these big state actors like North Korea turning to cryptocurrency. What in general would you say is the relationship with doing cryptocurrency and crime? You know I feel like one other thing I wanted to mention is that early on in cryptocurrency the narrative around it was that it was criminal money and clearly now. Really Narrative. I would say. We have all these institutions that are getting in on. But I just wondered you know I really do think we're obviously still seeing that. Criminals do enjoy it. So I wondered what your take on. On that relationship. I guess my sense is that they're still a false sense of security they're. Not. Everyone fully understands currency or a realizes that you know they can't hide behind a coin at the end of the day and I think that that information is just not spread as widely as people in the world like we are stand it, and so although we've definitely move past this whole like criminals or the ones using crypto currency. I think that's definitely true. I think that a lot of people are turning to it in order to be able to hide behind their current coins. But at the end of the day, criminals are still using Fiat currency to they're just finding and shifting and moving and taking turns in order to be able to try different ways and see what sticks. Think one thing. It's fascinating Jesse and I've. There used to be this thing where he would get in this machine and go to another country. It was calling international travel. It's really hard to remember now but we've given presentations on cryptocurrency and it's amazing out particularly when you're meeting people very sophisticated still understand cryptocurrency when they see the at Jesse with her DOJ and senior, they're like. Literally I people say like why not use government just turn off like isn't this all criminals people don't understand that like eight that's not something that's possible to be my answer always like you know people have been committing crime with traditional Fiat money for a long time and no one says demand. That's like I don't there's huge psychic disconnect that I just don't get like okay. Great. Like someone uses money to do something bad. No one's talking about banning on hosted Watson that's called cash, right? That's cash in. Between someone's betting. It's an hosted wallet right in criminals do that all the time Jesse and I could tell you stories from when we had narcotics cases refined two hundred, thousand dollars in someone's hidden in the floorboards of their four advocates without once happened right and so no one's like we should ban cash and so it just it's it's a false narrative into question I. think it I hope like you know if not, you know years not months and days now people will stop asking how of Crypto is. Criminals like that's not the point. Right? CRYPTO is here. People just need to learn to accept that and sounds like as you point out big banks are starting to get to just it's just not exchanges anymore and that like. The problem is in Crypto promise criminals and so that criminals commit crime whether without crypto the question is, how can we as a society? Like Oh is this something should be regulated I think that goes the Jesse Point I was like DOJ is trying to find ways to follow up. You know I think their defense lawyers are doing fabulous job at trying to wait a minute DOJ you're going. Too Far like this is not within that you you're using a regulatory framework for like Western Union sending money and that doesn't apply to someone just exchanging one currency to another. So the there is this big open right now for the law to get fleshed out but that does not speak to the goodness or badness crypto. It's here to stay and people just need to learn to live with it. I think my especially, my more libertarian minded listeners might. Like. Your answer to that question. But in general probably, my whole audience will because it's pretty level headed into and makes a lot of sense Well, it's been so great having you both on the show, where can people learn more about each of you and your work? Well I think just making you can reach out to us on link Dan I. think that's one thing we keep both I guess some of the profiles in general Jesse's got a big cases. You can see I think DOJ press releases I don't what else? Yeah I think press releases are. Probably the main way or linked in I mean at the end of the day as as government workers were part of a big team. So every six months or prosecution or forfeiture that we have is the result of lots of people both named and unnamed. So you know there's not any other way I guess to sort of track our our activity than that but. We you know we want to thank you for having us here and also thank everyone that helped us accomplish this and We hope to continue down this path. Yeah. Great. I mean one other comment I'll make is that you guys did name a bunch of your other collaborators throughout the show. So hopefully they. Will appreciate that. All right well, thanks again and it was great having you. Thank you. Thanks so much joining us today to learn more about Zia Jesse and the DOJ strikeforce. Check out the show notes for this episode. Don't forget. You can now watch video recordings of the shows on the UNCHAINED YouTube channel go to YouTube dot com slash c slash unchain podcast, and subscribe today unchained is produced by me Lawrenson with help from Anthony Yoon Daniel Bossy Baker Sean Fan Cod, and the team at Sialkot transcription. Thanks for listening.