20 Episode results for "Zero Population"

Episode 57: A FINAL SOLUTION IN A BRAVE NEW WORLD

Ground Zero Media

08:19 min | 1 year ago

Episode 57: A FINAL SOLUTION IN A BRAVE NEW WORLD

"I'm Clyde Lewis, said welcome to how the world will. Spy Take on how we may intentionally or accidentally meet our own extinction. For a moment I wanNA talk about the brave new world. I know that what I talk about is the end of the world and his podcast, but I often think about the fictional dystopia is. We've read about in school. Brave new world by Aldous Huxley is about to be made into a TV show for a streaming network and those who have not picked up a book will know how Bizarre Vision Huckabee had for the future of mankind. dystopia stories have one thing in common character suffers, so you don't have to. That means that we do not have to suffer in a dystopia by choice. We've been warned genetic engineering scarcity, ordering security the cost of liberty. These stories were written, and the suffering was there in hopes. It would stay there and not leap out of the page into our reality. What started out as an apparent effort to prevent a novel coronavirus from sticking nation, and the world has become yet another means by which world governments including our own. Could expand on those powers, abuser, authority and further oppress constituents until now the police state has been more circumspect in its power grabs, but this latest state of emergency has brought the beast out of the shadows. We're on a slippery slope to outright despotism from there. We have dystopia then from there. We have something called the final solution. You know you've heard that term before. It was Hitler had planned for the Jews. It was also uttered by Bill Gates on late night with Stephen Colbert. Gates talked about innovating testing and tracking of people during the Covid nineteen outbreak, and then he said the final solution is the vaccine's. Colbert awkwardly joked just to head off the conspiracy theories. Mr Gates. Not Call vaccine the final solution. Gates laughed and said good point. He laughed maniacally. This oracle record shows that crises including wars, famines, food scandals as well as pandemics, change institutions and have long lasting impacts unaffected societies. We'll find ourselves over the next few months and years in the middle of a natural experiment for sustainability. An experiment and how we survive without falling into what is known as the apocalypse etiquette where we are forced to decide what is appropriate to keep your family, fed and healthy. The question is after a disaster of epic proportions. Do Morals Change? What is it okay to rationally stealing for the sake of survival, there seems to be this ambiguity morality in times of disasters, however, we see in movies, and on television shows people who steal during disasters and many of us really have a tough time understanding the motives for those who loot and in reality, there seems to be this code of ethics in situations where there was virtually no hope to survive without stealing drugs or food, or in some cases appliances. Appliances in most disaster situations, the threat of human revolt and desperation seems to be far more devastating than the disaster itself while the event of an earthquake hurricane or flood creeds, billions of dollars in damage, the toll of human suffering and death leads to do desperate things, and it's includes deciding the morality of stealing, and there are also other more serious decisions as to who dies or whether or not, you was killed for survival, or in the most desperate situation, whether it's moral to eat a human or a pet for sustenance. I know this is the conversation that happens all the time, but since we are now wondering about a full-scale apocalypse, perhaps it is time to open up and speak without fear about the issue of the breaking point where you decide that it's time to throw out what you're used to and climb into a dumpster and find sustenance from unfinished pizza nestle between those cigarette, butts and beer cans. As really isn't a requirement for survival. If you're prepared, but if you aren't then when we are desperate. When people are desperate th? They're entitled to help themselves right or whether they're gonNA themselves to. What can point between the diapers and toilet paper and Hand Sanitizer, white screen, TV's or police officers required shooter arrest you. The looting start spontaneously how quickly it stops appears to depend on how rapid and severe response it meets. That is the argument for using lethal force decisively. However, would you feel better if you knew? The police gunned down a group of kids stealing drugs, or would you go easy on kids stealing bread and milk? How are we allowing the stealing of computers and appliances during a disaster? Do we say to ourselves? A ceiling food is okay. Appliances are wrong. Is it far more acceptable to steal from a destroy department store, or from someone carrying groceries to feed their family. Will they be judged was immoral failing if people decide to sell things on the black market or people who go door to door, begging for bread. Well surprisingly contrary to popular belief, the impoverished of the least likely to loot, the rich and middle class find themselves looting in order to maintain a sense of security, the impoverished are used to going without however the rich and the middle class find themselves in desperate situations, because of the lack of creature comforts and access to those conveniences make it harder to cope and soon even the most content are more likely to resort to stealing things like gasoline, clothing and food. The idea that moral struggle to adjust as such events makes the apocalyptic angle. A compelling struggle with what we're told is wrong and what is necessary to survive. As indicated no government, God or anything else will save you from making difficult decisions about your mortality and the lives of those you love. We all have to face the harsh reality of neighborhood problem when people reach a point where they are unable to deal with being hungry alone or depressed. Unfortunately, we're hearing about more suicides happening now as they are competing with deaths that have been reported for Covid, nineteen and as much as bill. Gates is being praised as a hero in the COVID nineteen struggle. Struggle the idea of the final solution was how to exterminate the Jews using the Orwellian term population dynamics whatever population dynamics well population dynamics are where lethal control is widely employed randomly to suppress the numbers of people, animals, Bill Gates and others were speaking of net zero with regard to global co two emissions. Zero population growth is a trend before covid nineteen. The February nineteen ninety seven issue of George magazine included a survival guide to the future that featured various commentators, describing how the world was now and providing their thoughts on what the would be like in twenty twenty. The actual article was entitled. A nation's future foretold. It was divided into themed sections such as transportation, education environment crime warfare and food. Bill Gates was interviewed in the feature the time and said that he funded population control programs. In the same article, he's allegedly quarter to saying and overpopulated planet would be choked to extinction by a lung tacking virus. Well. The real world Sherfield to Stoep now, and there's both injustice in suffering. None of this is the fault of the business owners, shutdown or the patient, struggling to breathe or the families losing loved ones. The cost of livelihoods in lives is the definition of unjust suffering, and we now experiencing and impersonal tyranny, being separated called, and we could be spirit away even more so than we were prior to covid nineteen. Just as the world of Huxley's famous novel divided people into different color coded professional, casts a situation where some people have covert immunity, certificates and others don't could quickly split the labor force and the people who can easily find jobs and those who can't. It will split a family's church, groups, marriages and relationships. All, leading to the final solution all leading to the end of the world. This has been how the world will end. If you WANNA be prepared for what comes next go to prepare with ground, zero dot com at forbear with Ground Zero Dr John Lewis.

Bill Gates Aldous Huxley Clyde Lewis Stephen Colbert Covid Huckabee Hand Sanitizer Stoep George magazine Hitler Dr John Lewis milk
39 You Have to Stay Poor  Im Having a Steak

GrowthBusters

46:16 min | 1 year ago

39 You Have to Stay Poor Im Having a Steak

"Unless you're a starving filmmaker you probably can't imagine living on just five thousand five hundred dollars a year. Be If you're a starving Grad student. Now I'll grant you that. What the heck are we talking talking about? Find out on this episode of the growth busters. podcast Connie welcome to the growth busters. PODCAST here we discuss our societies addiction to growth growth. And we do our best to chart a sustainable course for human civilization. Because we've got a planet to save hi. I'm Dave Gardner. Director of the documentary. Growth Busters Research on growth and fulltime advocate for sustainable living and America Areas Co host and Co producer of the growth busters podcast for cutting edge information about our cultures unsustainable love affair with growth. And what we can do about it. Visit Gret Busters Dot Org all right day before we dive into our follow up episode for decoupling decoupling nonsense episode thirty five. Let's check our inbox for any listener. Feedback Okay Erica. We have more than ever first of all an email from from Joe Brooks Joe wrote the attached article from the ticker reports on traverse city Michigan. The article year end reports show local construction growth crime trends presents many statistics about growth but never mentions any of the problems. Massive traffic problems sewage carbon dioxide emissions waste homelessness affordable housing low wages. Love Your podcasts. While thanks Joe we appreciate your comments. And you're very observant servent. I find that most media reports either talk about growth or they talk about many of the problems that are created by growth but they never talk about them both both in the same report. The journalists don't like to connect them and also interesting. Joe Brings up crime trends which I was just reading this weekend about is how there's hire crime in higher temperature places like places in the south and certainly those media reports don't acknowledge that ending growth might be the solution solution to those problems. That is almost never going to be in those reports. Not yet we're working on. That are working on it. We also had an email from Simon. Cole aw commenting on episode. Thirty seven of the growth busters podcast a finer future. Congratulations on getting another great speaker with rich information. I'm David Erica. The five requirements for Z.. PG which is zero population growth hunter explains are eliminating especially with regards to the effect of inequality polity on population and our ability to mitigate climate change their vast improvement on the usually rather limited solutions of reproductive freedom freedom and women's education like you. I'm dubious about turning the train wreck around if it has to be profitable but I suspect the environments soon omic response will force a huge cultural shift towards realizing that physical imperatives trump financial accounting before. We're likely swamped opt. And a few bits and pieces remain to carry on. I have shared your episode before but haven't donated. I will this time chairs. I was really nice. Thank Simon Yeah thanks so much. It's really great to be appreciated and even more important to appreciate it all the way to the bank because we depend depend on the financial support of the people who listen to podcasts and share them in order to keep this nonprofit project running on renewable energy so thanks for that but it's a great reminder. Erica that we don't beg for money often enough So I'm not GonNa beg now but I'm just GONNA mention if you head over to growth busters dot org click on the donate button. It's very easy to pitch in and make sure that this continues and it's real easy to just sign up for small monthly recurring donation if that works better better for your budget. I do WANNA thank Donohoe from Australia for writing. An he has some very interesting observations about the growth addiction of Australia's politicians and I'd love to dig into that but it just don't have time to share in this episode so Don keep listening and keep writing and we will share more of your thoughts when we have a few more minutes dispirit. Thanks everybody for writing to US and again for helping US keep this project alive. We do it because we love it but money always does help so now for our main events just some commentary from a very special guest and producer of the Musi film. Eight billion angels Terry Spar and before I share this. We'll go ahead and mentioned that I was not able to join in but dave and I are going to unpack everything at the end so pang tight. Here's Dave and Terry all right so I'm talking to Terri. SPAHR the the producer of a new film. Eight billion angels and somebody who I consider comrade in arms in the battle to get our civilization Asian to be more sustainable in Terry I asked you to jump on with me today. Based on a an email that you sent me as a follow up to episode thirty five five of the growth busters podcast de-coupling nonsense. So you kind of took exception. I guess I'd say to some of the things we said and rather other than me put words in your mouth or even injury male first of all. Let me invite you to just kind of express. What your concern was based on that when I look at our global economic activity across the planet oftentimes when I'm in front of people who have just watched our film eight billion angels? They'll say hey great great film but he really didn't concentrate much on reducing consumption as a solution and said that's fairly accurate and they say why didn't you do that are why don't we just reduce consumption. And I said that's a tall order a big task to discuss. But I think if you really WANNA qualify your question I think probably a better question to ask is. It's a really a trillion dollar question is what scale or size of global economic activity would be sustainable trainable indefinitely for seven point seven billion people. That's really the question we need to know. So that we can live sustainably with resources. We have so when you do the the math. And you look at that and this is just through booking researching numerous assessments talking to lots of environmental scientists and economists and ecologist and they all. I pretty much concur day that we need to be about fifty percent of our current economic activity globally and we're an eighty six trillion dollar economy so so too low sustainably again. You have to reduce our global activity by about fifty percent or about forty three trillion dollars a substantial reduction quote unquote consumption option but really economic activity because its production and consumption. So I think the challenges are really twofold. One is human behavior is one of the issues and we are our program to want to live better lives and it's very very difficult especially when the majority of us across the globe are living on so little over four million people are living below a sustainable threshold right now which is a very austere lifestyle. It's essentially living on fifty five hundred dollars a year. It's not something that anybody would want to live on so so do we prohibit these four billion plus people from living a better life and our film we have a bio emphasis. Say That we social justice we need to allow these people. People have the room and the space to live better lives in to grow and want to consume more and we shouldn't be prohibiting them from doing so. And on the flip side the challenges you got three and a half billion plus people who are living above that sustainable threshold of fifty five hundred dollars a year and that fifty five hundred is roughly by your computation about the average that we'd all seven point. Seven billion of US would need to be out on the math lately but that's about what it is rounding a little bit but so it's a tall order to do that. It goes against human behavior wanting to reduce our standards of living and for many people that could be as much as fifty to ninety percent of their lifestyle. I mentioned to you before David living in a ten by fifteen room with minimal plumbing and mental electricity plant based Diet Washer Dryer. Because you only have a few cents. Close No dishwasher joined with few percents plates and flatware. Let me interject here. That Terry and I were both in the same room a couple of times just a few weeks ago is really great experience at some private screenings of his great film. Eight billion angels talking to college students who are at the screening and I think in one of those settings when you explain to us how we would need to live. You've in order to cut that total global economic activity in half. I think I asked for volunteers. I asked for a show of hands. How many of you want to sign up today to to live in that small apartment and earn fifty five hundred dollars a year and adjust your life style to match how many volunteers we get raising their hands? None of of course the challenges and it will happen is that the folks who are living below that level are going to rise up. That's going to cause more damage to the environment. That's that's a real challenge to reduce consumption both from behavior perspective but then also as I mentioned in my email to you dave from a financial system and what I mean by that is when you look at the equation. That is the impact on our plan. It's the number of us. Times are affluence. You also hear technology to me. Affluence is your wealth at your income jere assets that wealth income allows you to buy energy and allows you to buy materials and goods and services and some of that technology so technology is being part art at the affluence. So if you're looking at all those seven point seven billion people their wealth is really determine it here and the problem. Is that ahead to explain this to some fairly smart people out there who said well listen I could just reduce my energy costs by putting in led light bulbs or I could stop driving a car or I. You did stop driving a car and I said well I think that's fantastic but let's take Average American who earn sixty thousand dollars and they decide to give car and walk doc everywhere and that car expense to them is probably ten percent of their income years. Probably six thousand dollars a year that goes towards their insurance it goes towards their gas. It goes towards. They're car payments. But they're obviously not using those resources. The materials that were used to build that card or no longer needed to be extracted from the earth and extruded and advocated into an automobile. And we're not using gasoline. The oil that the gasoline derived from so a nice resource savings. But I said to them well what would you do then. If you no longer have that would there be a benefit to you economically. And they said yes. We have six thousand dollars now. My ex question was well. What are you doing with that six thousand dollars and a life open off in their head and they all started wanted to realize that yes? I'm going to take those funds and I'm going to re distribute them or shift them to other economic activities that could be investing in the future. My retirement tyrant which cases going into the production side of comedy and providing the capital to allow businesses to continue to grow to provide their goods and services that we want or go onto consumption inside where. I'm just shifting at six thousand dollars to other things like I'm taking a vacation by plane to Europe or I'm renting a larger home where I'm keeping my heat on longer eating Richard Diet. Hi It so. It's a very difficult task to reduce our overall consumption because it's baked into the financial system that we have that's why the equation in is equal time. Say It's our affluence. It's not our consumption. Its wealth essentially dave nothing we really truly can do substantially as either destroy our wealth voluntarily. Tear up our money or take our wealth and our income and purchased for example land that we could conserve serve and it just takes the money out of the system and puts it into an asset. Now which is nature but beyond that. It's a very difficult challenge to reduce our consumption also. So I think it's good for you to make people aware of that so that they might be more careful but kinda got the sense that you're feeling. Is that when Erica. Okay and I. On the growth busters podcast encouraged people to stop using their automobile or to take public transportation. Read their bicycle are definitely only. Turn the lights off so that their energy consumption is less. I can't help but think that that is a part of the adjustments. We all need to make to somehow get back within our planetary budget. But are you saying debut and Erico should really stop recommending that because it is just not going to make a difference. Well it's certainly a wasteful use of resources but then again if there's an economic benefit to your Erica meaning that if you turn your lights off more you're going to have a lower utility utility cost and then what are you doing those savings and it was in the business world for twenty five years and every CFO. That I've spoken with. They're constantly driving for efficiencies whether whether it's through consumption reduction of goods and services in the production of what. They're trying to make for their business either. Continuously trying to drive for efficiencies and at the end of the day it means a greater profit or a greater net income at their bottom line and he will tell you they're gonNA keep three to six months of cash on hand for their operating of their businesses and then everything else it gets reinvested back into the business either pine other businesses buying the manufacturing equipment technology inventory essentially continuing to grow. That doesn't mean that our personal action that we're trying to do is worthless if one thing that reinforces that save the planet sort of mentality which is good we certainly can try and consume lassen. The promise we've been trying to do that for twenty five thirty fifty years and the World Bank. They look at their global growth on an average annual basis. It's been about four. What percent since nineteen sixty one? So we're continuing to grow some of that because a population increase but a lot of this is because we've had the ability to have abundant energy which allowed us to extract attract more materials and continue to grow our wealth. And we're not putting on the brakes and we're not really changing our consumption from a behavioral perspective and if we try and do it oftentimes it's just redirected to other areas. Well couple of avenues. I want to go down with one. Is I found myself after reading your email. I thought okay. Well if we're not really super careful than we're just shifting our impact so I found myself wondering okay. How many things could come up with that? People can do with their our savings that would be environmentally benign or beneficial. So let's see some of the things I came up with. If I'm on the right track here are what if you use. I used the savings to pay a higher price for more durable goods rather than buying cheap crap. That you're GONNA have to replace every year or two. Aw if it costs you more. For example by organic foods and it's more expensive in the traditional industrialize agricultural system foods took on by people who are taking better care. The bureau aren't using all the chemical input and fertilizers and things like that. The tends to cost a little bit more because the yields aren't as high so it's good for the environment and it's also reducing my overall wealth. So I can't consume other goods and services because I'm allocating more towards organics so there's a good example but it does cost me more personally and unfortunately I think most people tend to look for the cheapest goods and services and we all do that we all look for typically what is this can give us value at the cheapest cost. But I'm thinking if you know if I really have a good impact on somebody. They're going to be spending less money at the gasoline pump. And they're going to stop and say okay. I got to be really careful. I'm not gonNA spend that money on another trip to Kabul but I will spend it on buying something that is repairable and I won't have to replace for thirty years. I will spend it on. Local food grown much more environmentally carefully. That's better for the soil so those are good places to shift that money. I could use the money. I saved to sponsor a screening of eight billion angels. Yes certainly contribute to organizations nations. That are involved in educating curls and providing family planning and helping to reduce our footprint by promoting smaller family absolutely yeah you could make contraception contraception free for some Group of people that would be good. Use Yeah a very good useful amount of your dollars yes you. You could use the savings to invest in solar panels for your roof and still trying to get my arms around Global Energy because there are certainly some questions whether we'll have the scale scale ability and the density and in the portability to replace our fossil energy if it was the magic bullet you think we would have been able to at least move the needle and we're not moving the needle pito anywhere near quickly enough because of some of the limitations of renewable energy. So I think that's part of my response in my answer but the last thing is kind of a big picture question I wanted to pose. CF CF together. You and I can solve this. So let's assume that there's not a huge shift that we can get in the consumption Shen patterns of the richest three and a half billion people on the planet. Were designing the sustainable civilization of the future. We know it's going to be far fewer than seven point point seven billion people when you do the math in your head and try to figure out okay. Roughly what's going to be. The population size is going to be based on and assumption that everybody kind of stays at their level of consumption. They are today or what kind of shifts are talking about well again again. There two variables there one is the number of us in the other is our affluence and so we're in eighty six trillion dollar economy. That's our affluence is a global economy and we're seven point seven billion people. We had a very very difficult time. Cause all our growth and the focus on it across the planet in two hundred some countries entries is about living their lives and pushing the growth numbers so I don't see growth which is essentially an outcropping of consumption as a likely we variable that you're going to reduce enough meaning fifty percent to live sustainably if we don't change growth keep growing and we don't reduce our growth. Let's just just say we stay. Static what do we need to do to get down to a sustainable lifestyle again. It's fifty percent. We'd have to reduce that number to about forty the three trillion dollars again allowing for the abundance of diversity of life to flourish. It's a rough approximation of where we need to be. But you don't think we can do that right not quickly enough. And nor can we reduce population quickly enough. But I think it's much harder to reduce consumption based on this systems in place and the political systems the the economic systems. Everything that you've had on your podcast for years about trying to slow growth down and it's an extremely difficult task to do so. Do you see us this kind of freezing at today's level of consumption for everybody and then just aiming for cutting the world population and half voluntarily. That's very difficult to do on the population side on the consumption side on the consumption side. Okay I think each and every one of US wakes up every day and says more or less how can I live a better life especially for people who are less well off so I take assumptions going to continue to go up for a long time as long as energies made available and abundant for us. If there's constraints and energy consumption will good how they rise and fall together. Dave energy material consumption global wealth they rise and fall and when there's less energy available there's less consumption materials and obviously less wealth so that brings us to a question. Erica couldn't join us today for this conversation position but she sent me one kind of big picture question that she hoped that we would get to. And you've lead me right into it. She said what is to keep us then. From having this final end result salt being that we have more and more millionaires and billionaires and we have to reduce the population that's consumption continues to grow. We will have to continue due to contract the population and eventually we ended up with a couple of million billionaires. Nobody else years everyone to be sustained. Yeah because our goal is to somehow find a sustainable balance my thinking was we gotta work on both. We've got a really contract the population but the richest people in the world really really need to cut back on their consumption. But I'm saying if we are realistic and say you know what we're not gonNA convince anybody to cut back on their consumption and in fact you're telling being me they're going to keep on wanting to make their lives better year after year than that means. We are going to perpetually have to reduce the population if we want to be in sustainable apple balance I think David Pimentel Cornell and his collaborators came up with a number Mrs Back Fifteen twenty years based on the economic activity and global wealth wealth of time. They said it was somewhere between billion and a half to two billion people is sustainable at those current levels of economic activity. Probably that numbers about the same today. Today it's probably a billion and a half to two billion. People is the sustainable level based on the current consumption levels and current economic activity of global average. But if if I'm not successful at getting everybody every policymaker in every government in every business unhooked from growth addiction than that would be a momentary point in time of sustainability. We would immediately start getting out of balance balance now and if we don't tackle one or the other or both the question is what's more effective. Is it more effective to get people that trying change their future consumption or reduced. The number of future consumers a professor back when I was getting a Master's government administration. That said Terry you have to look at what's feasible and what's practical. That's very difficult task to practically brings down you say consumption. But which is economic activity. It's very impractical very difficult. There's too many moving pieces to may systems too many political interests across a massive complex global system. I think it's certainly far easier to educate people on the impacts of on sustainable population growth and implement both on personal levels and policy levels you can governments social health and economic benefits of promoting smaller families through education and and family planning policies that promote healthy choices. I would argue with you at all about that that we're willing and able to reduce our birthrate. We've made incredible strides already not incredible enough. But we've proven that we've had many countries who have dramatically dropped their birth rate without any course of policies just by rallying the public and educating them and making family planning services available. And saying you know what we got too many the people we need fewer. We've got success stories there. I don't think we have a single success story. Where a large group of people or a nation John or any large group said okay? We've got to reduce our consumption and everybody rallied and accomplished that so far. We haven't seen that right. Yeah so you're right that I think it's going to be a lot easier to work on the population side of that equation. I think we're so far into overshoot. I feel like we've got to find a way to tackle the economic activity to right and I think the more people that do understand what we're discussing today the more that they can create policy shifts by getting people to take action by voting voting their principles and getting candidates in office who understand this people who understand us who run for office this. Whether that's you dave or me or other people that understand the interconnection of global economic activity in population and policies that favor moving towards authentic sustainability. Not a bunch of policies that really just benefit were economic growth. Unfortunately which we do see. That's a tough balance because politicians are elected because people want growth. They want better lives but that growth has the corresponding effects of damaging the environment. That's why reducing our numbers will reduce induce the overall impact. We'll tell you I want to thank you for producing eight billion angels. It's great new documentary about human population. What's going on without fat on the planet brand new film and he news or anything you want to share with our listeners about the film we just the select feature film at the American Public Health Association's Association's Film Festival last week in Philadelphia which was fantastic over fifty films for Shannon Select Future and we had a wonderful panel there with Travis avid reader and there's a bio ethicist at Johns Hopkins? He was on it and he's also in our film and we had two other lovely folks Keach Ozmet the Gates Foundation and then Woman named Juanita Vice who's down at George Washington University. So is it really terrific panel. We were just accepted into gye poor film festival over in India India because a portion of our film involves Indian some of the challenges. They're having with pollution and solutions with the model down and Carola. So yes some really great news. Is there some other festivals and conferences that we're going to be doing over the next few months and then our plan is again to release in the Spring of two thousand twenty film to cross the nation so if people WANNA learn more about it see the trailer follow your progress and make sure they don't miss the news when the film is available for them to see what should they do. Where do they go angels? Angels Don't or do a quick plug for Earth overshoot or overshoots the nonprofit that we established is furthering the message and Commission of the film birth overshoot or Yep. I think Jerry's got an email list that you can get on there so you don't miss any major news. We'll all look forward to the film home being seen in many communities starting in the spring. Thank you anything. We didn't cover that. You want to talk about nothing in particular but I think I don't want the general uh-huh feeling that there's not something that an individual can do. It's not saying that their personal actions are worthless. They just have to realize that what we're doing isn't going to move. Move the needle enough. We're just not going to be able to reduce our activity and not to be sustainable. We really have to focus on our overall numbers on the planet and and there are things that we have to do as a society and as a global society to which is removing carbon dioxide. From the. We just have to do that. There's too much up there right now. For the Earth to absorb naturally we do after reduce our overall consumption of energy but again very hard to do because when there's taxes or cost to increasing energy use all costco up and people don't like that and they revolt. That's a delicate balance. Between trying to UH reduce our consumption our energy policies that are not something that people necessarily want are absolutely necessary from an ecological perspective. You can't help but think that to some extent year reacting to what we hear too often is shocking that I have to say this but a lot of people today are are pretty uncomfortable talking about population population growth overpopulation contracting population or even just stabilizing population. There are always going to be people in the crowd who want to go to. Oh it's consumption problem. We don't need to deal with population. Why because I'm afraid to talk about that? Apparently that's the between the lines. What they're saying you get it? I get it and I think that's kind of your reaction is let me fill you in if you think that we can ignore the population multiplier and that equation and the key thing is people say yes we can just reduce consumption will then really how much. And that's what's important to understand and measure so that people understand the magnitude of the issue and then they become more of Odyssey discussing humane odyssey involuntary policies that are pro small family help. We don't have to just pick one but if you did and you picked working on overconsumption than you lose you're never gonNA get at their fair enough to say that where we are now on his out of the gate. Yep All right all right. Thanks a lot terri. Good to talk to you today. Pleasure thanks for your time you too bye bye so Erica. What stood out to you about? Terry's response well first off. I'll say that Terry's perspective is very refreshing. It often often fills like are small but growing social circle of friends and colleagues are unfortunately the only ones that really get it. It sure we have a lot of big names out there who are doing some really great things. All of whom support and encourage ways of reducing our ecological footprints. But it's true that it is a rarity to see anyone actually acknowledged that population part of the equation and let alone say that reducing our population in is an easier mission than reducing our consumption patterns. Yeah like a such. We hear that perspective way too. Seldom I think it made it pretty obvious in the conversation precision with Terry that I wasn't completely buying his whole story which almost seemed to be saying. Don't bother to do anything to shrink your footprint except having fewer children. I knew you would say something like that day. I anticipated that. I just think really really wet Terry was trying to get out. Was Individual Action Assuming we all have access to reproductive health and education and resources and there are no bands in the state that you live in assuming that we have equal access to these opportunities and resources that we really do have the power to control. our family size thankfully we do right and a lot of places we do. So if you have that that's your own personal action your own personal contribution to this this mission of saving our planet. That's one thing that you can do that in my opinion is easier than reducing your ecological footprint by consuming coming less. I think to ask people to consume less in. Our modern society is significantly harder to do than saying. I'm not gonNA have any kids. Ads are saying I'm only going to have one child. And the reason is because it's just the modern world that we live in where everything around us really shapes our behaviors and you could make the argument meant that it really does shape our reproductive decisions and choices to have but I think we still have a little bit more control over that aspect of our future than say driving less. I bring that example up because why why did you bring that up. If you've been following rolling along you know that my new year's resolution this year was to drive less was gosh thank you. Thank you for the call out but you know what I'm going to be very honest with you guys like no bs about it. We don't like to be us here on growth buster song and tell it like it is it has been a harder task than and I imagined and the reason is because I live over a mile away from any market from a really anywhere I want to go and you know I really enjoyed the walks and not not having to drive everywhere but at the end of the day when you have other responsibilities your job I have three jobs and it's harder than I actually anticipated disappinted having to account for time and the time to get to eight A. B. to pick up my groceries eight obt to the gym and having to really calculate and make sure that that fits. It's in my day where I'm able to get everything done in a tight deadline so I'm still on it. I'M GONNA also take my own advice by not calling it a failure yes. I'm driving less but that I won't lie and tell you that I'm not driving at all because I have been so. Are you saying you've made the decision based on this experiment that you're not getting rid of your car. This isn't going to happen this year. Well No let's say if I get into a graduate program which will be around. April is the last I will know of. I'M GONNA make. Plans is to relocate and make sure that I relocate to somewhere that I am able to walk to campus to anywhere I really need to get to on a daily or weekly basis. So selling my car will happen. I will do this. I'm committed to this. It's just a matter of when definitely this year I want to do this and and I will definitely keep you all posted. Well why am I need a bicycle or hover border both. But that's cool. I have friends actually offering me their unused bicycles. The calls so maybe I won't have to buy one but I will give you interior this that having one fewer child or having no children I mean there is nothing more powerful in terms of the footprint. Shrinking action that is the most powerful. And you're right you can make that decision and as long as you're willing to use some form of contraception. It isn't hard 'cause you've made the decision and you don't have to every day shiver because you turned down your thermostat in the winter or you don't every day after sake. I wish I could have a big t-bone tonight but I'm a Vegan now so in that respect it is but of course. We're so far and overshoot that I think it makes sense to still work on both angles and I can't tell you how many people do say to me well. I didn't have any kids so I did my part so I'm flying meeting me. You know what I one of those people. I'm not having kids. I still L. eat meat but I've been in a constant state of cognitive dissonance with myself every single time. I have a meal where there's meat because I know what it took to to get that meal on my plate. Eventually I hope to wean myself off of it. I think we're actually planning on having a very another special guest on our podcast. I who is a Vegan that would be Mr Joshua Sputnik of Judge Vegan. I'm pretty sure. Joshua is a Vegan if not vegetarian. But I'm really really curious to hear his take an advice for how to do that. which is something else I want to offer a fight? A NARDI offer that for a New Year's episode but if you are looking to make major changes like this in your life find heroes find people who are where you WanNa be and ask them. How did you get there? I mean that's how I found Dave so I was just thinking we want David Erica to be that we can be your heroes baby that but if you're trying to give up your car actually neither one of can be your hero yet and that department but I'm on my bicycle a lot so I can be your partial hero and I know. We need to return to unpacking. unpacking that conversation with Terry but I do want to mention that just last weekend I was on a family trip. I had to fly one of the few times. I'm going to be getting on a plane this year or maybe the only time that I was at a ninety fifth birthday party and in a number of situations where I just had a little control over my diet and so I was having meet the two meals a day for a couple of days and usually I go three four five six days without meat so I come back home and it was so nice just to have a stretch of vegetables only and no and you know what that saves you a lot of money but you do have to find ways to get your protein. Yeah going back to the propaganda that is Andrew. McAfee Buck Martha bless the surprising story of how he learned to prosper using fewer resources. And what happens next Dave one of the major issues we had with the messaging here was McAfee goal of helping the poor become rich. And how technology is somehow going to save us all which is unfortunately something that we hear too much but with over three billion people and actually I think Terry said about about four billion people living below the poverty line in the world. I'm strongly motivated by helping these people rise out of poverty so that they can have better lives. I thought you just wanted for them to stay dirt poor so that you could eat meat terrible. No no I guess. The point is if we continue to deny the seat. That population reduction deserves herbs at the Sustainability Table. We are setting ourselves up for the ultimate failure and at the end of the day we are faced with our own personal decisions Asians and decisions. That actually do matter and we know that decisions matter because one decision can influence a series of future decisions that are not only yours But they're the decisions of other people around you and I'm not GonNa die further into this rabbit hole because it'll just take forever and we have limited time but something that Terry said that really stuck with me was that consumption will go up. As long as energy is available to US energy consumption and wealth all rise and fall together so in other words less energy equals less. Consumption equals less wealth. This was interesting to me because it's not not typically the way that I think about it and I really like what hearing this activated in me because it begs the question of is energy infinite. I know this is probably going way off topic. But if energy is neither created nor destroyed we can say that it is infinite. But let's just say that the energy we have today a is what we will have indefinitely because it's neither created nor destroyed right so it seems that there's only so much to be dispersed around the growing masses of people. Aw Well I just have to say about that. One is I mean there's a tremendous amount of energy hitting the planet every day and I think we could power billions and billions and billions more people with that energy. We could figure that out. That was the only challenge you know. Certainly energy goes really key player in quality of life and the size of our economy and the cost of energy played a really significant role. But I don't see. The energy is the limiting factor. I think it's all these other things in our ecosystems fresh water fish in the ocean. Fertile soil phosphorus. There are so many other things that are going to keep us from being able to hit eleven billion let alone the idea of fifteen or twenty billion you know we could figure out how to power twenty billion people on this planet from the Sun. We could figure that out but we couldn't figure out how to keep from completely destroying every other the suspect of our life support system to make sense it does make sense and I think what this is getting his this belief out there that is that if we have unlimited amounts of energy or we have enough energy to go around forever that we can somehow create technologies to. I don't know uh-huh create water when it's no longer available to us or create better or more energy efficient ways of using that energy. It's just we haven't gotten there yet. Yeah and wouldn't you say I mean I've been kind of blown away by just the number of people who have reached out to us after our episode decoupling nonsense to say Yeah I. I couldn't believe that Sam Harris just bought that Hook line and sinker and didn't push back on the whole corn Akopian. Myth that undramatic fears pushing. Yeah I mean that has a lot to do with Reputa- ability the guy comes from Mit Harvard. And having that behind your name aim unfortunately captures the attention of a lot of people and ways that just ultimately bias their opinions of that person and whatever it is that they're saying they'll just eat it up without really questioning. Does this make sense of three letters to add at the under his name but I mean in in addition to that he kind of clouded the BSF's messaging with some good ideas. I liked the idea of a carbon tax. It wasn't all be as but Thera just enough points in that book that just really unfortunately Papu the whole thing. Why just WanNa be clear you can or cannot buy into this? You have a free mind Eric. I want to be clear about my position on this because I keep thinking about your desire to find a way for people to rise out of poverty. I think that is a noble goal and I think everything we do needs to be consistent with that and so to me. There are two things that are consistent with that one on is while there have to be a lot fewer of us and I'm not saying that means there needs to be fewer poor people to rise out of poverty there just needs to be fewer human beings on the planet and then secondly there does need to be more equitable distribution. Sorry to say you know. I'm not one hundred percent anti-capitalist and not one hundred percent pro-socialist but those of us in the overdeveloped world who are really living high on the hog part of the equations gotta be US living a little bit more simply. That's my position absolutely. I agree with you completely about that. I'd be out of a job. Neither one of us has for saying that there needs to be fewer people and developing countries. If Eddie thing I would say there needs to be fewer of us here in developed countries countries we need to be the ones that are setting this example and I know that I sound like a broken record when I say it but we are so privileged. We have everything that we will ever need and we need to be able to give some of that up so that the other people on the other side can rise out of poverty so that they can have just a fraction of what we have every a single day they deserve it did point. Yeah the PIE isn't getting any bigger so we have to slice the pie a little differently. And if you're not anxious to really to have a small all piece of the Pie then you better be anxious to talk about human overpopulation address subject and do something about it exactly and beyond that. If if there's anything that you take from this episode I would just say that we should all be motivated by what is morally correct. And I know that that's very race objective because most of us are motivated by what we individually consider morally correct in fact even the most immoral human finds a way to rationalize nationalized his or her behavior that aligns with whatever they believe to be is ethically and morally correct. But if you personally do not believe that a part of social justice involves allowing people on the other side of the richest nations of the world access to the space and resources to make for better lives then then there is an absolute error in judgement. Hands down runs. You should run for the Senate thank you all in all every single human human on this planet already living every single human. That is already living already alive is already going through this process that we call life deserves the freedom and the space to have equal access to food to water to healthcare to professional and educational opportunities. Clean Air all about. And if you're denying dying somebody that if you think it's more important for you to have more than one child no offense to anybody who's listening to this and already has more than one child. I'm I'm not calling you out or anything. You are aware now. It is your job to pass the torch and to spread the message to other people who are making these sorts of decisions because because it could be us on the other side to that. podcast adjourned anything else. I just want to say that I very much look forward to the release of Terry's his film eight billion angels and also there is another one scheduled to air in the beginning of two thousand twenty believe Spring Twenty twenty. It's David Ed attenborough's film a life on our planet. Looks like that might be interesting and update on very sparse film. Eight billion angels. Terry tells me that they are are in the process of not just organizing the world premiere but actually organizing screenings in forty or fifty cities around the United States. And in the coming months. So you definitely want to keep listening to us. We'll keep you updated but we'll put links in the show notes again so that you can get over to the eight billion billion angels website and get on his email list so that you don't miss any news and you'll have the ability to say. Hey Terry I'm willing to do what I can bring your film to my town. Yeah all right. Well I guess that does bring us to the end of another exciting episode of the growth busters. PODCAST don't forget to explore the issues at growth busters dot org and if you think this podcast is as important as we think it is then by all means subscribe to it on your podcast APP and recommend it to your friends. There are not enough people listening to it yet because when there are we will see the world changing because we've got all the solutions don't we are forgetting their thank you to all of our listeners. For offering your support and for allowing us to do this meaningful work and thank you for enlightening all of us with your words and the message of your eight billion angels. Peace out to mountains. Dan Street aw but not robust. Don't want US cost up. The bigger is better the cost of college. Aw Rose plus.

Terry Spar David Erica Dave Gardner US Growth Busters Research Joe Brooks Joe Michigan Simon Australia Connie Europe Director Cole
EPISODE   262   "NUMBERS MATTER."

Native Opinion Podcast an American Indian Perspective

40:32 min | 11 months ago

EPISODE 262 "NUMBERS MATTER."

"Your team. How This genocide on slave. To these things. Thirty days was a decoy every. Every. Blue reach native opinion. As always, we are an indigenous information and educational radio show and podcast. And every week. We talk about current affairs related to from. Our Own? Native. American perspectives? My Name is David Grail. And you have reached native opinion. I'd like to welcome everyone to this podcast. The Wednesday edition. And I'm hoping that we will continue to do this Wednesday edition. At some point, my brother may be able to join us once again when his work schedule allows. But as always, we need to take care of little housekeeping before we get into the show. And how you can reach us is by host with an S. AT NATIVE OPINION DOT COM. You can reach us in the twitter verse. At native opinion over there. On facebook facebook, dot com forward slash native opinion podcast. And on our web page and NATIVE OPINION DOT COM. You can also subscribe to this podcast. And if you've already done, so you can continue to reach us on what ever podcast host that you can. find us on apple podcast Google podcast. Radio Republic Stitcher Iheartradio spotify or again from wherever you can download your favorite podcast. And you can leave us a voicemail. At Eight, six, zero, eight, hundred. Five, five, nine, five. Again that's eight six zero. Eight. Zero Zero. Five, five, nine, five. As. You know we. Present a podcast, every week and a live show Saturday. And that live show began at ten am. and. We would like our listeners to know we appreciate every bit of support we receive from you. That financial support, we receive goals directly to our cost and expenses associated with producing the show. And those expenses are things like website and podcast hosting. Music Licensing. Content Development and curation. Daily Business Operations Marketing. Advertisement and much more. and. If you would please join other wonderful folks who have contributed to the show by becoming a patron. You can find details on our website at native opinion, dot com forward slash support. and. On our facebook page just by clicking on learn more button. Another great way to help us to tell other people about the show. And again, we thank you offer listening and sharing our show and it really does help us grow. And this week's episode is two, six, two numbers matter. I gave our listeners a little bit of a tease. Last week about this episode, we'll get into that in a moment. But first. We want to let you know about what he can trading post. Fine Authentic Mohegan handmade crafts, beadwork, ribbon shirt, embroidered hats, dream catchers, and other specialty items can be found. At. Mohegan reading post. They now offer cloth mask with sizes for the entire family. These masks are made from one hundred percent pleaded cotton in two different styles with various printed designs. They can be washed. And reused. And that's something that's a real advantage over disposable face coverings. Customers for many products are also available by request. Please visit he can trading post dot com to check out their designs. and. Again, we think Mohegan trading posts for being. A loyal advertiser on native opinion. And again, that is Mohegan trading post dot com. And again, we thank them. So last week. Saturday. I gave listeners a little bit of a tease about. What was going to? Be In this episode. And as Some of you may have discovered. The full in the white. House has petitioned the courts to stop the census. And I've had many many conversations with natives, a non natives alike over the years about how important or unimportant the census maybe. and. When it comes to native Americans. Numbers matter. Those numbers. Help. Is the right word but. The government uses those numbers in funding allocations. Services like Indian health. Housing and other things like that. So numbers matter. And it seems that the government is up to it shenanigans to tried to. Cheat some of the tribes out of things that are due to them. And that doesn't surprise me in the least. And I'm sure it doesn't surprise many of our listeners. But to give you a better idea of what I'm talking about. This article. Came across. My Desk. Towards the end of last week. And the title is more than two dozen federally recognized tribes. have. Zero. Population. That's zero population according to the Treasury formula. In this was written by the native news online staff and the byline reach when it came time to distribute cares act relief aid for tribal governments. The US Department of Treasury used a formula that determined twenty five. Federally recognized American Indian Native Alaskan. Tribal entities had zero population. And this was posted on native Musone nine dot net. How they could determine that there's zero population in a tribe. Is. Beyond me there's a formula used and I looked into this a little bit more. And the links be in the show notes in you'll find that it's quite surprising. But out of Washington the Department of Treasury cares. Act Distribution. Formula. Determined Twenty Five federally recognized American Indian tribes and Alaskan native tribal entities had zero population. The, that left me scratching my head a little bit to. The formula which was used to allocate, and this next is going to sound really familiar because we've talked about it often. The, formula, which was used to allocate eight billion. That's billion with a B. and relief funds for tribal governments was based on population data from the Eric comes the -partment of Housing and Urban Development Hud Program for Indian Housing Block grants. which doesn't count tribal members who live off the reservation. Tribes with zero population were allocated the minimum distribution of one hundred, thousand dollars of care relief funding. Okay so if they had zero population. Y ALLOCATE MONEY TO A NOT ENTITY That's the first question I would ask. The article goes on to say at least two federally recognized tribes have sued the Treasury for under counting the populations. Good. Numbers matter. The fact that the census has been halted stopped and halted again. Is. A stark? Example. Of This administration doing everything it can to. Weaken the structure of and I'm air quoting sovereignty. And the government government relationships between tribes and government. The article goes on to read this week. The miccosukee tribe of Indians of Florida filed suit in Federal Court in Florida. The legal action follows a similar lawsuit filed by the Shawnee tribe in June. Both tribes are seeking relief funding amounts. They claim are owed based on their actual populations rather than the hud data. The American Indian tribes in the Group of Twenty five included. The miccosukee tribe of Indians of Florida the ONONDAGA nation. Tunnel wanted to ban of Seneca TUSCARORAS nation. Dan Delaware tribe of Indians Eastern. Jenna, Ban, of, Choctaw Indians Shawnee tribe. Tourist Indian right. Sierra. Augusta Ban of WHO Indians I'm sorry if I mispronounced that. There's another tribal name that I can't. I'm not even going to try to pronounce because I will rip. the in the high band of Da Guarino Michigan. Indians I'm sorry I mispronounced that name. Jackson Band of me. Walk. Jamal Indian vintage village excuse me coin nation of Northern California lower late. Tae, John Indian tribe or Tejan Indian drive. And the Alaska native tribal entities include. I'm I'M GONNA mispronounce a lot of those they'll be in the show notes as well. The. Links that I'll provide in the show notes for. Some of the formulation that they used for this is. Bogus. Sounding to me. It it's it's all centered around block grants. Indian housing block grants. And it seems to be formulas that they've reworked. TO WORK AGAINST TRIBES And we. Tribal. Positions. Within the federal system. I believe. And I could be mistaken but I believe. That this is just an attempt to. Remove federal recognition from tribes one at a time or group said of time. And be done with the whole federal process I i. believe if the fool in the white gets reelected, they're going to continue with this process. This program of. Not. Counting. Natives whether they're on the reservation are not. So. This is something. Okay. My eye on because it warrants warrants observation. God knows I don't trust the fool in the White House. Going on with our second article in native Neal's this kind of dovetails into what I was just speaking of. The title of this article is Supreme Court grants the fool in the White House's administration. My words request to halt senses while appeal plays out. This was written by Aryan Vogue I'm sorry in Gregory. Wallace CNN.com. The Supreme Court on Tuesday granted a request from the full in the White House's administration my words to halt the census. Count. While an appeal plays out over a lower court's order that it continue. Now for the life of me, why would that administration want the census to stop? This. There's a lot a lot of different reasons. that. Make no sense to antibody. Other than. Removing. Rights to various pieces of land. Resources. And other things that belong to native people. That previous article was directed at native people. So if they can determine that a tribe has zero population. It's easy for them to say, well, that tribe doesn't exist anymore. So depending on where that tribe is located. The federal government will have carte blanche. To Pilfer whatever resources may be on that tribes reservation. Halt of the census. In, my opinion plays right into this. The article goes on to say the administration asked the court for immediate relief because a lower court will have have required the census count to continue until October thirty first. The foods administration, my words argued. That would have prevented Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross. From delivering account of the nation's population to the fool in the white. House. My words by December thirty first. The ruling is a win for the administration which argued. The short deadline is necessary to give the Commerce Department enough time to meet the December deadline. The administration noted that the count had been delayed by. Kobe, nineteen but. That if the time spent counting were shortened that deadline could still be met. Commonsense would say extend the deadline. Justice Sonia Sotomayor your dissented from the order fearing. That the short time line would produce inaccurate recall results. Excuse me the thank. Quoting. Because the harms associated with an inaccurate census are avoidable and intolerable. I. Respectfully. Dissent from the grant of the stage she wrote. and quote. Nor the justice noted a descent which is alarming to me the no, the justice voiced. Voiced opposition. Attorneys for the groups that sued the administration told, CNN They will wait to see the Census Bureau's next steps to determine how to respond quoting every day has mattered. And the Supreme Court's orders staying the preliminary injunction does not ease the tremendous progress that has been made as a result of the district courts, rulings and quote Melissa Melissa Sherry an attorney at late them and Watkins who argue the case in the trial said in a statement. The Census Bureau said in a statement Tuesday that. In quote well, over ninety nine percent of housing units. have been accounted for and that self response filled collection operations could and will conclude Tuesday. San Jose Mayor Sam. The Cardo, who cities among those sowing, the administration. Told CNN. They will continue to move the lawsuit forward in the lower courts and successful will absolutely requests the Census Bureau to go back into the field to count people later that year. But such a move would be difficult. Carl. Tobias. A law professor at the University of Richmond told CNN quoting. This Day is effective as effectively the end of it and quote he said. Today's order is just the latest twist in what's become a long running political dispute. And it's likely to fuel fresh scrutiny over the accuracy of the bureau's US population count. Again, they don't have any desire to to. Do an accurate count. Why. They want to end the count even if it's three weeks sooner than necessary makes absolutely no sense. Other than to. Rob People of things that they have a right to. which this administration is good for. So hopefully. The court will rule that the census should continue until. The thirty first. But we shall see. We shall see how effective the court will be in letting the right things be done. I'm hoping that that's the case. But we shall see. The latter part of this article. Late June July early, August Ross directed census officials to come up with a plan. To convince the door knocking operation. So this is something that they had been planning. Shortening the number crunching process to meet the December thirty first deadline. Officials warned in internal emails reviewed by CNN that such account would be. Of Tally. Of unacceptable quality with fatal flaws and carry the stain of politically manipulated results while that's exactly what it's going to smell up. In one email Ross asked if a shortened schedule allow the numbers to be produced during the fools presidency my word. That's adjusted a concern that Republican leadership rather than a potential Joe Biden presidency. Make determinations of who is counted while also risking a significant snake significant. Excuse me. Under count of the population in as many as ten states. So you see the smell of this rat is wafting. All through. This whole entire thing. Now, I'm wondering if those ten states that they've mentioned just happened to be blue states. I wonder. But the rest of this would be on the show notes and we shall see what happens. I'll keep an eye on this as well. This. Next article is in other news and it's something that. Really, caught my eye. Because it has to do with something that we've reported on. A few episodes ago. Where a congressman grilled. Some of the major bank executives about diversity. So I taught this article is really interesting because somebody obviously stepping up to the plate. And this article headline reads. J. P. Morgan pledges. Thirty billion billion with a B. to boost diversity. Black. Latino homeownership banking. This article was written by Chris. Kristen Meyers for finance dot. Yahoo DOT COM. J. P. Morgan Chase Jay PM on thirsty. I A five year. Thirty billion with a B. Initiative to tackle racial inequality within black and Hispanic communities. Now something stocking stark stark Something that's missing from this is. American Indians Native Americans. We're not mentioned anywhere in this whole whole thing which which saddens me a lot. We should be included in this formulation. And Plan of J.. P. Morgan. If we are no one saying anything. Or they're throwing us in the mix with everyone else like they usually do. The article goes on to say the broad initiative seeks to bolster homeownership increase banking to underserved communities provide capital to minority owned businesses and diversify the banks own employees ranks. In total? The largest bank is pledging twenty, six billion. To various housing initiatives the bulk of the bank's financial. Commitment. The some is the largest today committed by single entity. And comes as the US is royal by social unrest and the fallout from the coronavirus pandemic. Social ills that we see day in day out result from housing inequality. Income inequality. Racism. Systemic racism. These things Could go a long way. To solving some of the social ills. If people would look at the causes of the social ills that we see. Discrimination and inequality and injustice. Are. The biggest drivers of social ills in any society doesn't matter whether it's ours. Our northern neighbors, our southern neighbours, our neighbors across the pond. Those factors, drives, social ills. Quoting. SYSTEMIC RACISM IS A tragic part of Americans, American history and quotes. JP against chief exact executive Jamie diamond in a statement. Quoting again, we can do more and do better to breakdown systems that have propagated racism and widespread economic inequality. Especially, for black and Latino six people. It's long past time. That's -ociety addresses, racial inequalities, and I'm more tangible meaningful way and quote the CEO added. Well let's hope it's let's hope it's not. All fluff. No stuff. Let's let's hope he's going to. Do something meaningful with his his pledge and his words. The. Move follows a similar initiative from city. Which pledged? One billion. With a B.. Racial, equality, initiatives recently. The bank released a report that found systemic racism has cost the United States sixteen trillion with not. Over the last two decades and we reported with that article. Few. Episodes ago. So that's sixteen trillion with a T. Just think of how much This nation could have repaired a lot of things. That is socially. Plaguing US things like hunger. Housing. Health. Healthcare. Lots of things. But the powers to be. Or the powers that be. decided that that money was better spent. Elsewhere. Or better placed elsewhere. In their pockets instead of investing that sixteen trillion with a T. In our society. So, as a result, two decades later, here we are. Quoting, we responsibility to intentionally drive. Economic include inclusion for people that have been left behind in quote. Said J.. P.. Morgan's global head of diversity. And Inclusion Brian Lamb and a statement. Quoting again, the COVID nineteen crisis has exacerbated longstanding inequalities for black and Latino people. No mention of natives natives around the world and quote lamb wrote quoting again, we're using this catalytic moment to create change and economic opportunities. That enhance racial equality for black and Latino. Communities in quote. Okay. It's all well and good you WANNA wave dead presidents around. But? What are you GONNA do with those dead presidents? Where are you going to utilize those dead presidents? They do no good if they're not being placed. In areas. That address, the problems that caused these things to be problems in the first place. Police brutality. That's one of the areas that. Some of those dead presidents can be utilized most. Clean Up. The police departments Get the trash out of the police departments. That's a good start. Jay People get stated that part of its programming through. Advancing black pathways will be aimed at thirteen cities including Detroit New York Houston New Orleans Los Angeles. Baltimore and Atlanta. The firm aims to increase black and Latino homeownership by creating an additional forty thousand dollar for home buyers. That's that sentence stinks to high heaven. The firm aims to increase black and Latino ownership by creating an additional forty thousand loans for home. Why would these loans made available to the first place? Why? Because? People of Color. are systematically more often denied loans for housing. That paragraph goes on to read while helping twenty thousand households, refinance their home loans and lower mortgage payments for thousands. Okay, that last part of that paragraph. People of Color. Who are able to get mortgage is? Wind up paying on average a higher interest rate. Much higher interest rate. So its stood of throwing money at these problems now. Why didn't you do something preventative to keep them from becoming a problem in the first place? Why because of sixteen trillion with a T dollars? That's money. The banks were not able to. Utilize. It's gone that money is lost in lost in them wind. It's gone. In, addition, the banks plan to target affordable rental housing by financing an extra one hundred thousand. Rental units. Making owning renting. A reality for blacks. Latino's. It's something that could have been. Fixed a long time ago. By stopping redlining. By Stopping Inequality in the banking system. By leveling the playing field for people of Color. This isn't something new. People of Color being kept out of homeownership. This is Neil. It became a process. That someone fabricated it became a manufactured workable process. At, the at the end of World War Two. Research and you'll find out that. When soldiers came home from? World War Two. They were given the opportunity to purchase homes through the Veterans Administration. While both home purchases did not happen. For most people color. Because, they were turned down. This nation has a lot to answer for. Maybe. This is somebody's. Guilty conscience eating atom. So they're gonNA, throw billions of dollars at the problem. And see what sticks. The article goes on to say low home ownership rates among minority house households. Has Long been a driving factor in increasing racial inequality in the country. I just mentioned something about that. particularly in cities like Chicago where redlining. was. Prevalent. Denied access to land before the turn of the century. Black households were subject to race racist policies of Red Lining Contract Bein, and land devaluation. Quoting in Chicago. Chase has doubled its homebuyer assistance grant. To five thousand dollars and minority black communities the bank stadium. Quoting again to help more current homeowners, take advantage of historically low interest rate but who cannot afford the upfront cash needed to refinance chases providing a twenty five hundred dollars grant to customers who refinance with the firms. Dream maker I dream maker product in quo. The banks moved were applauded by a range of grassroots and activist organizations. Including the National Fair Housing, Alliance and the National League Quoting JP Morgan chases new commitments will help make owning or renting a reality for more black in like teen ix families whose housing asks access has been impeded by decades of systemic. Racism. And are now disproportionately affected by the impact of Cova nineteen in quote said Lisa Rice CEO of the National Fair Housing Alliance in a statement. Okay. So The rest of that article will be in the show notes please please please read the article. It's an admission of some sort. An admission of guilt maybe. It could be an attempt to. Put. More money in the pockets of the banks. We'll have to see we'll have to see how this plays out. Hoping what J. P. Morgan Citi are doing are for good reasons things they're doing for good things. I'm sure money is a motivator. I'm sure they hope to get something out of this. I've not ever known bank to throw money at a project just because there's something that they have to get back. But numbers matter. Numbers matter. In situations like The census? Numbers matter in this last couple of articles I just talked about. It's all about the numbers. It's always been all about the numbers. Decreasing numbers. Of An entity or a population. That's not wanted. is a sure way of getting rid of a perceived problem. And it's only a perceived problem in the minds of those that. Want to steal. And continue their their agendas of hate and racism. Numbers matter. Well I WANNA thank you all for joining me for. Our Wednesday edition. Of Native opinion. Episode to sixty two numbers matter. I'm going to play out. And I'm hoping that. Everyone will. Send me a little email will feedback about this particular of so your. And you can do that by sending me an email host with an S. at native opinion dot Com. You can also reach us at twitter at native opinion. And you can find us on our facebook page. FACEBOOK DOT COM forward slash. Native. Opinion. PODCAST. On Our web page. NATIVE OPINION DOT COM My name is, David. And once again, thank you for joining me. On our Wednesday edition native opinion. Break you all have. A safe week. And we will see you again on Saturday. Well. Stay say.

facebook United States Supreme Court CNN Census Bureau J. P. Morgan David Grail Florida P. Morgan Treasury CEO US Department of Treasury apple Brian Lamb federal government Chicago August Ross
NPR News: 07-19-2019 9AM ET

NPR News Now

04:58 min | 2 years ago

NPR News: 07-19-2019 9AM ET

"Live from N._p._R.. News in Washington I'm Korva. Coleman Iran is denying a claim by president trump that the U._S. destroyed an Iranian drone on Thursday N._p._R.'s Mary Kennedy reports. That Iran says it didn't lose any drones trump's had the U._S.. Boxer destroyed royd drone after a came within a thousand yards of the ship and ignored calls to stand down he described the defensive action because the drone was threatening the ship and its crew but Iran's Deputy Foreign Minister Abbass are Chee said this didn't happen in a tweet he said quote we have not lost any drone industry Hormuz nor anywhere else and he added that he's worried the U._S.. Navy worship shut down its own drone trump said the incident is one of many provocative actions from Ron recently against ships and international waters last month Iran shutdown and unmanned U._S. drone which led trump to consider but ultimately decide against retaliatory strike Merit Kennedy N._p._R.. News Washington president trump says he'll nominate Eugene Scalia to be the next Labor Secretary Scalia. Scalia is a Labor and Employment Attorney in Washington is also the son of the late Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia. If confirmed Scalia would succeed Alex Acosta. He resigned last week over controversy over his signing of a non-prosecution Russian agreement with financier Jeffrey Epstein about a decade ago. This occurred when a Kosta was a U._S.. Attorney Epstein faces new federal sex crimes charges president trump is again attacking Minnesota Democratic Congresswoman Ilhan Omar with new insults today on twitter Omar returned home to her home district in Minnesota on Thursday. She was greeted by well wishers at the twin Cities Airport uh-huh on Wednesday president trump attacked Omar at North Carolina campaign rally in response. The crowd chanted quote send her back trump is now distancing himself from the chance saying he started to talk over it in fact trump stood for several seconds waiting for the chanting to die down before he resumed speaking dangerously hot weather will blanket much of the U._S.. Today and into the weekend temperatures at or above one hundred degrees or expected from New Mexico. The Co two main N._p._R.'s Shannon Vance has more on the extreme heat in the central U._S.. Gentry trotter is a founder of Cool Down Saint Louis his nonprofit provides air conditioners and utility assistance to low-income families. The elderly and disabled labeled been very hectic. It has been blazing hot. What we're worried about now is making sure that people especially seniors in the physically disabled stay hydrated that they have a place to be cool at my Saturday Erdei? Much of the East Coast from Virginia to New York City is likely to see temperatures at or close to one hundred degrees Shannon Vincent N._p._R.. News you're listening to N._P._R.. News from Washington the acting head of Customs Border Protection says the trump administration's new asylum rule is just a pilot Mark Morgan tells n._p._r.. That's because his agency expects the rule will be blocked by court challenge. The Rule Denies U._S. asylum. SALOM to most migrants unless they I apply for protection in a country. They passed through on their way to the U._S.. The man known as the godfather of the Modern Anti Immigration Movement in the U._S. has died N._p._R.'s. Tom Gjelten reports sports on John. Stanton the passage of new immigration law in nineteen sixty five opened America for the first time to immigrants of color shortly afterward Danton physician and conservationist from Rural Michigan began organizing the movement to curb that immigrant flow and early advocate of zero population growth. You later argued that the new immigrants were poor cultural fit in America. He was a founder of several of the most important organizations working to restrict immigration among them. The Federation Nation for American Immigration Reform in his later years Danton allied himself with white supremacists and some of the organizations he founded tried to distance themselves from his legacy. John was eighty five when he died. Tom Gjelten N._p._R.. News Japanese fire officials in the city of Kyoto say thirty three people died in a fire at a well-known animation studio on Thursday officials say thirty six other people have been injured several of them critically media reports say a suspect.

trump president Justice Antonin Scalia Coleman Iran Washington Shannon Vincent N._p._R Ilhan Omar Kosta founder Customs Border Protection Alex Acosta Danton Tom Gjelten Attorney Epstein Iran N._p._R. Mary Kennedy Labor and Employment Attorney Minnesota New Mexico
This Peanuts Strip Offers a Window Into Ronald Reagans Changing Views on Abortion

TIME's Top Stories

06:11 min | 3 months ago

This Peanuts Strip Offers a Window Into Ronald Reagans Changing Views on Abortion

"This peanuts strip off a window into ronald reagan's changing views on abortion by olivia be waxman and nineteen sixty seven when governor ronald reagan made california the third state in the union to liberalize its abortion. Laws his hesitancy about doing so was clear from the start. Reagan reluctantly signs bill. Easing abortions was the headline on june sixteenth nineteen sixty seven new york times story reporting that with his signing of the therapeutic abortion. Act the day before. The state would legalize abortion in cases. In which the physical or mental health of the mother was in danger or when the pregnancy was the result of rape or incest but while his reservations about the bill were well known. A historian has found that. Reagan communicated those feelings a surprising. Place a letter to peanuts cartoonist. Charles schulz while researching the new book. Charlie brown's america. The popular politics of peanuts blake scott ball and assistant professor of history at huntington college came across the letter in the ronald reagan presidential foundation and institutes archives on july twentieth. Nineteen seventy the days peanuts strip featured linus asking lucy. What would happen if there were a beautiful and highly intelligent child up in heaven waiting to be born and his or her parents decided that the two children they already had were enough lucy. Replies your ignorance of theology and medicine is appalling back then. Many saw the strip as a comment on the zero population growth movement and now controversial. Environmental concerns about overpopulation. But others like then governor reagan viewed it as a comment on the morality of abortion at a moment when states were continuing to liberalize their laws on the procedure days after the strip was published governor. Reagan wrote to scholtz. It wasn't his first letter to the cartoonist. They had corresponded over. The years and reagan even declared may twenty fourth nineteen sixty seven charles schultz day. But this letter offered a rare insight into a policy makers thinking reagan wrote. That linus question touched a nerve and continues to haunt me in a very nice way because it made me. Think back to the soul searching. He did while deciding whether or not to sign california's bill. He described what was going through his head at the time. The author of the legislation wanted to go all the way and simply make a matter of personal choice in wide open. I probably did more studying on that subject at that time than on anything else before or cents and finally had to tell him. I would veto such a bill. I could only reconcile abortion with the right of self-defence namely the right of the mother to protect herself and her health against even her own unborn child. If the birth of that child threatened her it has been my feeling that our religion does justify the taking of life in self defense. I cannot accept that simply own whim. Even a mother has the right to take the life of her unborn child simply because she thinks that child will be born less than perfect or because she just doesn't want to be bothered well. The bill was amended to meet my demands. And i signed it into law. Now i have discovered some of our psychiatrists are particularly willing to declare an unwed mother to be to have suicidal tendencies. And they do this. A five minute diagnosis. The result is that our medical program will finance more than fifty thousand abortions of unwed mothers in the coming year on such flimsy diagnosis. I didn't mean to let you in on all my problems but just to give the background of why you touched a nerve with your strip the other day. Thanks very much. Reagan was just one of many americans who wrote schultz after seeing that strip many readers. On both sides of the issue thought that schultz devout christian was using his influence broadcast antiabortion views ball however argues that charles shulz comic strips on subjects ranging from school prayer to school integration served as a rohrschack test of american political culture and the time schultz approach a hot button political issue buying shining a flashlight on it as paul puts it. He's not dictating a point of view but he is shining a light on it in a way that is forcing readers to consider where they stand on controversal issues. What would really shift the national conversation on. Abortion was roe. V wade in nineteen seventy three in which the us supreme court ruled that a woman's constitutional right to privacy also applied to decisions on whether or not to terminate a pregnancy for people like reagan. The decision began a movement. To overturn the us supreme court's seventy-two ruling that continues to this day six years after writing privately to the cartoonist while campaigning for the republican nomination for president reagan would publicly declare that signing the nineteen. Sixty seven therapeutic abortion. Act was a mistake and that he supported overruling roe. V wade apologizing for his part liberalizing abortion laws in california helped establish reagan's reputation as a father of the modern anti abortion movement and helped him win the nineteen eighty presidential election as time. Put it in its special issue on the meaning of the nineteen eighty election results. A profound psychological shift occurred in american voters. They lost much of their desire or need to be part of a political majority but instead formed themselves into single constituencies an oddly specialized and peculiarly destructive version of politics in the era of single issue politics. It is not a broad political agenda a parties view of the nation that is important but gun control or or era or women's rights or bussing. And so reagan's letter to schultz provides a window into the origins of viewpoints on abortion and american political. Thinking more broadly.

Reagan governor ronald reagan blake scott ball huntington college ronald reagan presidential fou Charles schulz linus governor reagan reagan scholtz waxman schultz california ronald reagan charles schultz Charlie brown olivia new york times lucy us supreme court
From Feminist to Fascist

With Friends Like These

26:29 min | 1 year ago

From Feminist to Fascist

"So. Let me read you bitch worry. As from February tenth, two, thousand and five. As about one hundred people gathered at the Pittsburgh Athletic Association to honor the memory of their friend, mentor and boss last night, staff members of the Laurel Foundation wondered aloud. If the late Cordelia escape may would have wanted a big reception in her honor. A private, sensitive woman, who's loyalty, generosity and warmth endeared her to people Mrs may chose her friends carefully and preferred small groups to large gatherings. She died last month of pancreatic cancer at her home. Cold Comfort Farm. Witty, literate an ardent lover of nature, and all its creatures Mrs May was an heir to the Mellon banking fortune, but when she traveled, she usually waited for the hotel, housekeeping staff to arrive and help them make her bed. She liked to feel the wind in her hair to parked in a large ballroom with a large silver and Black Harley Davidson motorcycle that she often rude. A passenger with her friend former state treasurer Barbara Hafer. And the Fred Rogers dinosaur part of the dynamite days her foundation sponsored last year stood in the room to. Photos of May were mounted on Easels, arranged throughout the room, including one of her standing next to a large cut out of billy Ray Cyrus whose music she adored. May also disliked eulogies, which she called sappy speeches so when Donna nause vice president of the Laurel Foundation stood up. She told the audience that Mrs may would want everyone to be laughing. Pannozzi recalled that she always referred to her bosses Mrs May, but may mischievous Prankster, joked that title acceptable as well and occasionally signed her notes to penalty as the queen or El Bosso supremo. So honestly. The person described and that obituary seems delightful. Nick coolish an investigative reporter for the New York. Times is at work on a book about me. She comes across as someone who's incredibly witty. And charming and somebody who makes a really. Makes a really positive positive impression, probably the aunt. You know that you always Kinda we. Accenture, but well read kind of funny. At who who comes along for the holidays and then unfortunately maybe Africa drinks? A couple things that you wish that you wish that she had said about immigrants. What? Kinds of embarrassing things might dotty old aunt, Cordelia! Bring up. Immigration I feel is the root cause of unemployment, inflation, urban sprawl, highway and skyway congestion shortages of all sorts, not the least of which is energy, vanishing farmland, environmental deterioration and civil unrest. And when we hear of immigrants, sweet instinctively think of Mexicans because they are the most numerous in given the greatest press coverage in truth. We're being invaded on offense Filipinos are pouring into Hawaii. Almost anyone from the Caribbean countries and eastern South America who can make it to the Virgin Islands or Puerto Rico can eventually make it to the US mainland. One the Mariel Boat people arrived in Florida from Cuba. Much was made of the possibly deleterious impact. They may have on American life, but no reporter columnist nor commentator cited their most dangerous contribution of all a birth rate far higher than that of our native population, the breed like hamsters. Like many white people's inconvenient in-laws, Kandara escape may was also a big it. Unlike most of our inlaws Cordelia was in her time. One of the wealthiest women in the United States and she used a vast amount of that fortune at least four hundred and forty four million dollars to promote a specific vision of restriction EST immigration one that has come to sound quite familiar. We have a moral obligation to admit the world's poor. They tell us even if it makes our own country poorer and dirtier and more divided. You may wonder what Cordelia has to do with conversion gives. In the largest sense you could say, she bankrolled the conversion of the Republican Party from a Chamber of Commerce style promoter of immigration for the sake of cheap labor. To well. What it is today. But CORDELIA has a conversion story of her own to. She was an environmentalist and a champion of feminist causes decades before either of those things were very popular. And then. She became a nativist schooled paranoid about American resources and the future of the white race. Before, either of those things were very popular either. This my friends. Is Her story. Part One. Cordelia upbringing and early politics. Cordelia money came from her connection to the Mellon family. Her grand uncle was Andrew Mellon who you may have heard of. They were rich in that way that money just keeps making money, and by the time Cordelia was born. No one in the family actually worked. They spent their money and they thought about who else wanted their money. Mostly they drank. My mother was just a gutter. Drunk Sues Dick Susan. I, now Dick, there is Richard Mellon Scaife, a ruthless rock, ribbed, right winger whose millions financed the doomed effort to bring down Bill Clinton. There are many books and articles about him. He has a starring role in Jane. Mayer's dark money. But. We are not talking about Dick. By all accounts, Cordelia childhood was joyless and paranoid. If! You're talking about loneliness. Someone pointed out to me that that you know she she was born. You know not around the same time as the Lindbergh kidnapping, and that she lived her entire life like very kind of separated, pretty isolated kind of watched over. Heiress to a famous rich family. But in a way that that really kind of set you off at a remove from from average people. This childhood turns out to be foundational to her first foray into philanthropic activism. First of all. It's no wonder that friends repeatedly noted as she grew older, she seemed to love animals more than people throughout her life starting as soon as she started her own Philanthropic Foundation at age twenty three. That's the Laurel. Foundation she gave almost any conservation, 'cause you could name the National Audubon Society and the Sierra Club, and she was an even more significant benefactor in her local pittsburgh, giving to the national aviary there and the Carnegie Museum of Natural History. And then there's family planning. According to Cordelia visitors were the only relief from her misery at home and one particular visitor and general. She was the one who put what fun. There wasn't our lives. That would be Margaret Sanger now to you and me. It might be tough to imagine the founder of planned parenthood. poppins but I suppose the bar for uplift and the scale family was pretty low. Cordelia idolize Sanger from an early age, and continued a correspondence with her. Until Sanger died the bust of Margaret Sanger in the national portrait, Gallery was a gift of Cornelius. And obviously Sanger is one reason why. Did the Family Planning Movement? She joined the local planned parenthood chapter in her twenties, and eventually served on the Board of the International Planned Parenthood Federation. Do you miss a Sanger? Thank you many times for sending me your photograph. It is one I highly value for as you know. I have always admired and tried to take part in the work that you started. It's probably significant to her later swerve and interests that her passion for Planned Parenthood's policy goals probably had more to do with sanger than the cause itself. She told people she was initially attracted to Sanger's intensity more than her work or ideals. She was particularly taken with the fact that Sanger had been arrested for her beliefs. Now, this is about the time that Cordelia got interested in population control on a global as well as national scale that was a big part of planned parenthood's mission at the time, and we should note that in the late sixties and seventies concern about population growth was a mainstream liberal 'cause Paul Ehrlich's population bomb was a bestseller, and there was eight zero population growth movement that spoke in terms of protecting the planet as much as it did family planning for Family Planning Sake. and so so all of those issues nowadays we would lump into one particular bucket, but but a lot of conservationists have often had a preoccupation with population. Right with the idea that, too many people more suburbs, more roads, killing the natural natural habitat, and that you know that really sets her on the path. Toward opposing toward opposing immigration from the from the ecological. Side of the equation part to. A vulnerable woman. I don't imagine that Cornelius life was ever particularly joyous, but is the mid seventies approached. It was about to get worse. I think that the year nineteen seventy four stands out to me as a as a rather. Little moment in her life. Her. Husband who had been a longtime friend and confidante a was found dead of a shock blast to chest, presumed to be a suicide. And she and her brother had a falling out over there corruption investigation. That led to death, and she really lost to her sort of most important confidence, almost simultaneously her husband, her brother left her, will lear and I think in in in her letters, and in her words you can see a certain certain bitterness creeping in an example of this bitterness is in this note to John D. Rockefeller who had also been involved in the zero population growth movement his perspective on Zee. PG was decidedly progressive. They'd been discussing global poverty another goal that United Most Z.. PG THAT'S I do not agree at all that the answer lies in a redistribution of the world's wealth. The world's wealth is actually quite limited mankind's ability to expand the number who wished to share? It seems limitless. You may know the next part of the history here which is the population bomb failed to explode, and so a lot of zero growth people found ways to refocus their energies. The Rockefeller Foundation has become a reliable source to all sorts of liberal causes. But at this incredibly sensitive point in her life, a point, which anyone would be asked to be seeking security and guidance. Cordelia crossed paths with one John Stanton a Michigan Z.. PG activists. Who is invariably described and I mean that's in every thing I've ever read about him. He is described as a charismatic ophthalmologist. He was the head of a group called zero population growth. that was intimately involved in these issues and through a group called the Environmental Fund. They were introduced to each other and they. They really hit it off. Tinton is widely considered a kind of godfather to the native movement in America. The organizations he founded will be familiar to anyone who's following today's politics very closely. There's the Federation for American Immigration Reform or fair. The Center for Immigration Studies and numbers USA just to name three. And his charisma is relevant. You see a relationship, you know growing between them bright and. That, he that he John Town really cultivates. We have his letters to her. And they are just these unbelievable masterclasses in courting a donor. You know he's ferreting out information about endangered birds that she cares about. He's quoting from Shakespeare from songs, and you know i. mean these are like kind of the letters that you of as what you to woo somewhat I mean literally to try to try to romance some. and you know here. She is a widow living alone. you know in place literally called Cold Comfort, and she's receiving these incredibly charming letters from the sky, meanwhile in the files of of the for American immigration reform. You find note saying I've got this relationship pretty under control. This is how much worse she gave us another four hundred thousand dollars. You know so it. It does feel a little bit late like He. Has. A has a dollar sign target on her, but he doesn't vary suave job of kind of really her in. And this is cornelius pivot point within a year of meeting Tannen. She had resigned from planned parenthood. Saying the unwanted child is not the problem, but rather the wanted one that society for diverse cultural reasons, demands. She told the head of another progressives EPG group that family planning and famine relief or a waste of money instead. The US should seal its border with Mexico. This relationship with Danton is Cordelia 's ongoing conversion experience, because as tantamount seduction continues, she became literally more and more invested in his causes and started to echo the frank racism that Tinton expressed candidly to others. It's a few years into her relationship with Hansen that she writes the letters quoted at the top of the show, and by nineteen eighty-five Cordelia came to finance the American reprinting of camp of the saints, a violently racist novel, known lately for being foundational to the beliefs of Steve Bannon. Cordelia of course did not see herself as a racist. Can we not put imaginary paper bags over the immigrants heads see them as colorless consumers and count only their deleterious numbers rather Cordelia felt invigorated by this 'cause she seemed to find meaning in her passion, and felt that its unpopularity was proof of her righteousness. Sort of how she felt about Margaret Sanger. And by the time she was setting up the coal com foundation, and that's the one that still does all the racist stuff. This is what she had to say. The issues which I have supported during my lifetime have not been popular ones in many cases, nor do. I anticipate that they will be so in the future when the directors of the foundation will be called upon to exercise the courage of their convictions in carrying out the program I have described in the statement. I urge the directors not to fear controversy. The president of controversy is often a certain sign that happened. Opinions are being challenged similarly I urge the directors to avoid popular campaigns, charitable organizations, which have a firm hold on the heart, and per strings of the giving public should have no claim on the foundations limited. With friends like these brought to you by parade parade was launched by two best friends Cami and Jack and October of Twenty Nineteen Cami. The CEO is a first generation Latina. They make underwear. Their underwear starts at nine dollars, and it is made with a breathable cotton liner and packaged one hundred percent compostable packaging biodegrade within three hundred days. Their replay style is made with recycled nylon yarns, and for every sale made one percent goes to planned parenthood parade features four unique core styles, Thong, boy, Short, cheeky and brief, in addition to their high rise Thong with sizes, ranging from extra small, two three xl with parade. You have the option of choosing from over twenty different colors, so you truly select the style you love best. You can even match outfit to the parade underwear. You're wearing. Their underwear is truly buttery, soft and designed to never dig. Dig in a roll down can attest to this also I'd say the colors like really fun like carnival, kind of colors like jade and pink and yellow and stuff. It's really cool, and that is why prayed has been featured in refinery twenty nine Hype Bay Forbes buzzfeed man repel fashion east, a yahoo, seventeen paper nylon, the cute pop, sugar, allure, and in style Selena Gomez wore the parade scarf in her cover. Shoot for dazed. Go to your parade dot com slash friends for twenty percent off five pairs or more. That's your parade dot. com slash friends for twenty percent off. Five pairs are more your prayed dot com slash friends. See Site for details. With friends like these is brought to you by stamps, DOT COM WITH STAMPS DOT COM, you can print postage on demand in skip the lions and crowds at the post office, plus you can actually save money with discounts. You cannot get at the post office and if that weren't enough stamps dot, com also offers ups services with discounts up to sixty two percent and. And NO UPS! RESIDENTIAL SURCHARGES STAMPS DOT COM brings all the services of the US. Postal Service right to your computer in this safety and comfort of your own home, office or anywhere else you are hunkering down right now. Simply use your computer to print official US postage, twenty four seven for any letter, any package any class of male anywhere. You want to send it. It once your mail is ready. Just leave it for a mail carrier schedule a free package pickup or drop it a mailbox. No human contact required. It's that simple with stamps dot com, you get great discounts to five cents off of every first class stamp and up to sixty two percent off shipping rates, stamps dot. com is a no brainer is specially now saving. Saving you time and money, and keeping you safe in these crazy times and right now my listeners can get a special offer that includes a four week trial plus free postage and a digital scale without any long term commitment just to stamps dot COM click the microphone at the top of the homepage and type end friends. That's a stance dot com enter friends. With friends like these is brought to you by hydrant. Do you feel exhausted in the morning? Even when you've gotten a good night's sleep, you can follow all the best habits and recommendations, but still find yourself starting the day on empty. The because may be dehydration. You try your best to drink water throughout the day, but that's not possible. When you're asleep, you wake up drained because you're going for hours without a single SIP and it doesn't have to be that way. Hydrant created a refreshing electrolyte powder that you mixed directly into water efficiently and effectively hydrate your body. It hydrates you quickly and keeps you going for longer. Each rapid hydration mixed has four electrolytes. Your body needs sodium, potassium, magnesium, and zinc. It packs a punch to help your body. Hydrate fast and to stay hydrated. Looking for that extra boost of energy, there's also hydrant plus caffeine which contains hundred milligrams of caffeine from green tea and hydrant is backed by research. The formula was developed by Oxford, scientists. It's love by pro athletes, top performers, celebrities and has thousands of five-star reviews. It's made with real fruit juice powder is delicious and refreshing, and it comes in a variety of flavors including the summer, friendly ice, tea, lemonade and Fruit Punch and I kid. You Not I. AM drinking hydrant right now well. Well not right now, but it is in my water bottle next to me. It is the blood orange flavor. If you associate like powdered orange things with Tang, let me assure you. The blood orange flavored taste nothing like Tang, it tastes like blood oranges. It is probably my favorite flavor I've also tried the caffeinated variety, and I love the raspberry lemonade version. It is a little weird I think to get caffeine from something that doesn't taste like it should have caffeine in it, but. It tastes great, so why not I also WANNA. Add that my husband and I have an ongoing joke about being dehydrated like whenever one of us says they feel Kinda Ron, or whatever the answer's always like well you must be to hydrated is taken to holding my water bottle, which is filled with hydrogen water to him when he asked me how I'm doing. Hydrant is backed by a one hundred percents satisfaction guarantee. If you don't love it, send it back for a full refund. You need to try it for yourself to see what I'm talking about. It tastes great and it works. Hydrants starts at just a buck, a packet for a thirty day supply save even more with a monthly subscription and we have a special. Special deal of course for our listeners to save twenty five percent off your first order, go to drink hydrate dot, com slash friends and enter Promo Code friends at checkout. That's drink hydrant dot com slash friends and enter Promo Code Fronts for twenty five percent off your first order, drink hydro dot com slash friends, and we thank them for sponsoring the podcast. With, these is brought to you by Kiko parents. You may feel like your kids. Summer vacations started way early. If you've been at home together all this time and now actual summer vacations here, but do you feel like you actually did that home schooling thing, but also now summer vacation. So how are you gonNa get the schooling in? There's a secret way to do IT A. A secret delivery system, and that is key week Waco, they deliver crates based on all kinds of different interests that are really really pretty educational. In addition to being fun I am Kid `less as listeners to the show may know, but I have some adorable nieces and a nephew, and I have delighted in sending them crates that do not conform to standard gender norms. My nephew is getting a lot of like art stuff and my nieces are getting engineering and stem, and whatever else I can find that you know isn't like necessarily girly. This is my counter programming to the whole My in laws are kind of conservative. So I'm really enjoying this. I happen to know their enjoying it, too. They don't mind my little secret campaign apparently. That secret and your child can get these super cool hands on science and art projects delivered to your door every month. What kid doesn't love getting mail? These are real science and engineering and art projects. This is not some it's not kid stuff. It's actual projects, and there are different crates for kids of all ages, so there's something for every kid you know. There's no commitment you can pause or cancel anytime. Kiko is redefining play with hands on projects that build confidence, creativity and critical thinking skills. There is something for every kid working heart at Kiwi Co. get your first month. Free on select crates at Kiwi. Co. Dot, com slash friends. That's Kiko Dot com slash Franz. And now. I think it's time for a new obituary for Cordelia. It will be somewhat different from the one at the start of the show. If I was writing it today, I'd start with the most important thing about her. Without Cordelia escape may the nativist movement in the United States would not have experienced the growth. It did and the way that it did. Her organizations helped prop up the careers of Stephen Miller of several high-ranking trump immigration officials of Kellyanne conway and of immigration. Chris Co Batch. In a world without scape may, it's possible that trump could still have gotten elected. But would he have the same pack of ghouls and Sadist running things behind his expansive back. She was sensitive and private and preferred to build her network of xenophobes without much fanfare. It is unlikely that her friend Fred Rogers new the extent of her paranoia about the end of the white race. The nature organizations in museum she donated to. She supported in part out of desire to keep the nation and the environment pure. Friends described her as someone who avoided the limelight intentionally. There is. Explanation for why her brother's fantasy was so well documented and her own, not so much. The work of white women gets written out of history all the time, and not just when it's history to be proud of. Consider, the KLANSMAN's wives, who probably did more than keep the roads clean or consider the attention? The press pays to the role of the working class, white man and trump's victory, even though a majority of white women voted for him to. Diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, likely precipitated by her chronic alcoholism. Escape may officiated herself with the plastic bag. She left her fortune. Tar Foundation, which continues to buttress white supremacy. To this very day. So! What did you think? We did something different this episode and we'd love to hear. What you think about it, please rate review wherever you get your podcast. And of course, please take care of yourself.

Cordelia United States Margaret Sanger Fred Rogers Laurel Foundation billy Ray Cyrus International Planned Parentho Accenture Pittsburgh Athletic Associatio Africa Mrs May Barbara Hafer Cold Comfort Farm Tinton Harley Davidson Andrew Mellon coal com foundation Federation for American Immigr PG treasurer
CS 348: Blood Red Lines

Champagne Sharks

1:40:17 hr | 7 months ago

CS 348: Blood Red Lines

"Hey how's it going champagne sharks. Hope everyone's doing well just want to Do some quick house cleaning that people. No good champagne sharks dot com and you get access to all the links related to champagne sharks so instead of asking us with the youtube is located where the patriots with merchandise is located. You can go there and find it all and you can find where we are social media our products all that stuff also in addition to the existing patron benefits which includes discord server. Book club night movie night. Discussions shown those newsletter and most importantly bonus episodes were also giving people invites to the new voice social media networking club clubhouse so right now. It's closed off. It's in beta testing a yet to be a iphone member. But if you join patriot. John and through patriarch joined the discord. You will be able to get a clubhouse invites and the reason why we want people to get those clubhouse invites us because we're doing a lot of stuff with the creators and the podcast fans and he needs to get invited to take part of that including a new weekly creator and fans show that we've started over there. Will you get to interact with us and with each other so you become a patron for five dollars a month at patriot dot com reports last champagne sharks or without further ado. Here is the episode. Take care hey. How's it going. We have brendan o'connor with us today. And he's the author of a book called blood red blood red lines and i wanted to give them a chance to introduce himself and tell us everything we need to know about him and the book the full name bread lines how native ism feels right. And if you could just Tell the people who you are and where to find you and why they should care book. Sure thanks thanks for having me on My name is brendan a freelance journalists. Based in vi- push the author of lines. Native is he feels the right out from haymarket Right now I wouldn't need to know about. You can find me on. Twitter at at underscore brendan with g. I have been covering covering the far-right covering capitalism covering the disintegration of empire For for a while now. This is my first book and it. It focuses on the right but hopefully in a way that Absolutely i'm trying to bring a different kind of blend of reporting and analysis and socialist perspective to these questions that you might not get another pencil. The best way i could describe. This book is the but this is a complimentary way. The the it's always sunny mean where charlie has the conspiracy board and it would be talking about all those papers on the board. I sure do if that was true. Like like a charter board like that. Except when you research everything it's all it's all true and is actually over here a structure. That's what it felt like. There were a lot of things. I did not realize had connections to each other like carnegie mellon carnegie. Mellon's family those weird siblings. I mean it's this would be really interesting kind of movie a documentary or something like this interesting figures in here carnegie mellon's family these two weird siblings who grew up in are really dysfunctional household. The moment the melon people are siblings. Right i'm gonna make sure that the case. Yeah brother and sister. Yeah yeah yeah. And then there was a connection with the There was a connection with margaret sanger and planned parenthood and the nefarious kind of white nationalist. Re-genesis thing there and this person is basically like you know what the coke brothers or peter. The'll with immigration issues. And then peter thiel himself ends up in the booklet. It's an interest. It's very interest interweaving of different people interest throughout history that at previously kind of thought of as just kind of independent but vaguely interrelated. You know forcing the kind of like anti immigration stuff. But i did not realize was actually a very coordinated thing that allow these people eventually had a direct line into Trump like what. I thought was going to happen. Was i tell you going to introduce these people. Ernie on and then say like you know later on these people took up the mantle and district a demand but like the very first people. You introduce the tha the tencent family. The book ends and the guy dies in two thousand nineteen. These people are active. Some these people active all the way into the trump era. It's a fascinating read. Yeah i mean. I push it but but connection to the to the always because i do sort of feel sometimes feel like charlie In the work. That i do and i have to be careful not to get too conspiratorial bit. Sometimes it does feel like you know when you're trying to do a kind of a kind of analysis of the machinations of the individuals within the capitalist class and they're in like the operatives in the people that carry out their their political projects it can. sometimes you'll like you're drawing red string from one disparate thing to another But you're right. You know this. This is a what. I hope to show in in this book. Is that a lot of what took place during the trump administration and Even now the trump is out of office but i think will continue to see is the nation of not just sort of broad historical trends of the various crises of capitalism But you know there are particular. Concerted efforts Within the republican party jason to it. We're actually parts of parts of the ruling class are in conflict with each other. Which is which is part of why i think things feel so so strange right now but yet so i am. I'm glad that glad that book was illuminating in my for you. It's very much a story in the traditional sense. Like like it's it's very much a you know a research piece with a lot of Discussion history in davidson and figures. But it's also very much just like an interesting ends on samba story. I think it's safe to say in this book. The main characters the main drew lines are the tencent family particularly John danton who would would that be fair to say. He's kind of like the main character like like the spine of of all this. Yeah i mean he is he is i think he's you know he's a plays a really important role and just to quickly give of food. Tanzania's is e from underactive. He's kind of nobody he's laying guy he's just like a doctor. Small town in michigan But what he did. The course of his life The really had to kind of outsized impact. He came up through. The conservationists in environment was movements of the sixties and seventies and through that movement was connected with some really wealthy are full people namely cordelia escaped. May whose family we talked about earlier and with her financial backing created this network of think tanks nonprofits concentrated in dc but really all over the country that have slowly but steadily been working their way. From the periphery of the republican party to the core. And have you know the. The project is to translate The longstanding vulgar anti immigrant sentiment. That has Ebbed and flowed through history diet states into a pseudo intellectual policy driven framework. That was pretty much wholesale adopted By the trump administration there are people from the think tanks nonprofits installed as political appointees in. I think almost almost every federal agency that touched immigration in any way And people like stephen miller and jeff sessions before. He lost his job Had had close ties to these organizations as well and so talented You know. I do try to tell canton story. And a big part of the book is focused on him as an individual partly. That's for the pragmatic reasons that i had access to is archives. he he was a a something of a megalomaniac. Ernie go maniac insofar as he rigorously documented. Almost everything that he did in almost every thought that he had And so that gave a pretty clear window into the ideas that are driving this political project and so good portion of the book focuses on ham. But you know it's not the story of any one person Because tanta like the rest of us are sort of working within the historical immaterial conditions that we find ourselves in. Which are you know that that's just another the way that try to write the book stat. That's another part of the story of how the things that he did interacted with other forces at play I don't think if i remember right there was anything that really kinda showed panton directly working for trump at any point but they ten network of organizations and you know the whole portfolio sub-organizations that basically a ton of people trump's organization worked for or that trump was signing stuff for it was stephen miller. But there's also kellyanne conway. And i was very surprised that the direct connection that kellyanne conway like worked for years so One of their affiliated organizations like. it wasn't just. She was reading their paperwork. And that was it like there was a lot of active active stuff going on and what was interesting about about it. And he's a question that i have for you that i always wonder about i visiting at a vague idea about but you kinda made clear with how they use a lot of other causes. Kinda smuggled in their white nationalist anti immigration Stuff so like you said there was a. It was an environmentalist. Less conference conservationists Population control was one of the Cover when come from houses and but it was really more about population control of certain people and it is like you know planned. Parenthood people think of as kind of feminist. Or that's that's you know in it just to because he cares about all women of all races but when read the history regardless of where you think it's at now in its inception was very much about Racial racial ethnic eugenics To what degree the tensions and some of these other people were sincerely into late the environment or population control divorced from The racism or is it like hopelessly intertwined late degree to which they care about the environment if at all through the prism of The environment because some of the people who are sincere environmentalists. You know talk about how they couldn't take him to kicked him out. Because i think credit after you after you heard wanna go home and take a shower. No i think. I think that's a really good question. Can the golden answer is that Canton and cornelius may and some of the people that they were associated with and these institutions with i think they were true believers in the array of causes a dedicated themselves to. I think that danton truly believed that the immigration of non white people in the immigration of people which is really immigration of not madly. When he talks about gnashing Really talking about the movement of non white people to the united states. I think that he really believes that. This was a threat to the The the natural beauty in wilderness of United states I don't think that that was a limit. Ask let me ask you this. This was the able to separate it in any way. It seems from the racial immigration stuff like for example if there was a day for just watering trees or something and do nothing to tired to immigrants. That day would is like this picture of this guy's eyes glazing over anytime at the environmentalist meeting where did not tying it into immigrants. I guess my like like even even if he does believe in the environment. It's hard for him to think of any solution or whatever that doesn't tied into Immigration and non white people. Because he pretty much one track mind yet. So yeah you're absolutely right. And i think that that is something. That's something that developed over the course of like pretty quickly like the release earned mid-seventies like by by the mid seventies. He who had been very involved in the environmentalist movement in conservationist movement was increasingly illusion. Because he couldn't get anybody to talk explicitly or openly about his ideas. About how how this related. How how the stuff related to mass migration Which is i think. His his frustration in Is kind of interesting. Insofar as his ideas were not completely Outside of the mainstream. At the time. Like i could anxiety about population control the carrying capacity of the planet were. We're very. we're very mainstream on in the early seventies and and like you said before you know nativist ages have long been Trez in us political discourse but increasingly you know he he was like i said a disillusioned with the direction that the broader environmentalist movement was going in And became convinced that this particular idea that he had about the threat of mass in sham was a kind of central idea that he organized the rest of his political life around. Yeah i mean that. There's a book by paul erlich. I remember The population that was very much a bestseller a bestseller at the time. So it was. It was pretty. It was pretty mainstream. But i was surprised to see that Paul erlich was on a connection tannin to that that tension that tension was Part of part of his his movement zero population growth that was paul ernest movement right. Yeah i believe so And part of part of what. I think the research that i did show is that this. The the white nationalist valence to be anxiety about population control in population. Growth is not necessarily something that tin like introduced to this idea that erlich himself was from from from the junk Sympathetic were interested in this kind of interpretation of the problems the so-called problems that that he was describing It's not as though santon like introduced some kind of mutant version of a that that the This was an racialized anxiety To begin with yeah interesting. Interesting passage weather weather weather. What panton believed was a much stronger version than what erlich believe or where he was. Just too explicit about it either way. There was a discomfort or attention and you put tencent would try and fail to push z p. That's zero population growth to take more hardline anti immigration position. The organization's leadership rejected effort. A former staffer said because quote there were uneasy about getting into the city. They didn't want to be called racist. Which seems more like the used to to actually be called more than dame maybe weren't racist which kinda reminds me of the never trumpers today. Were people say you don't really have any problem with a lot of what they believe is like The tone and ten and his allies. They said quote talking very legitimate about protecting our border and saving the nation's resources and so on but the trouble is after you've heard them you want to go home and take a shower unquote and says towns. Frustration with environmentalists queasy response to his ideas about immigration led him to start his own his own movement. And from there you kind of go into could dealey escape. May i was wondering if you could talk about that moment. Where he breaks from zero population growth in connects with critically escape main. Who could heal escaped. Me is yeah so credit escape. is She's a woman who was in an heiress to the Fortune gives are very wealthy family. That are sort of a branch of the even wealthier mellon family. There's sort of together. American capitalist aristocracy Tinton in cornelius may met through one or another of these conservationist organizations and shared and analysis shared a shared anxieties about the what they saw as the deficiency of the environmentalist and conservationist movements to take up the nativist. 'cause to be in their estimation be honest about the pressures that mass immigration was putting on on the environment and so it was that relationship that enabled canton to start his own organizations to start founding and cultivating these institutions. Which may she was. Not the only funder There were a variety of other folks that they knew that she connected him with that he courted courted Relationships that cultivated over the course of the eighties nineties and really up until and after her death. cornelius me was the was the primary funder of these organizations. All of which have sort of innocuous sounding names like federation for american immigration reform center for immigration studies but which have had a very insidious effect on our politics insofar as kind of formalize A latent white nationalist worldview And may his his correspondence with canton's correspondence with scape may was able to read through in quote at length in the book in show how he played on her fears about Basically like kind of racial displacement which was a concern that she shared a lot of kind of far right intellectuals of the time the time being the late seventies eighties and still today that are kind of given different names Whether it's the great replacement or white genocide these are kind of the most extreme like explicit versions of what i think is like a deep deep racial anxiety about demographic change and the kind of fracturing of the fracturing but the the fear that drives the maintenance of premacy me was completely embedded in best and in canton's letters to her you can kind of see him playing on her fears in order to get her money to keep these organizations going because like i said for a long time. They were sort of peripheral to republican party politics. And there's a couple of reasons for that. I think the primary reason was that scape may end. Tanta and others in their cohort were supporters of planned parenthood. Unlike you know the republican party that came to be dominated by the christian right But then you know in time that history. It's been kind of buried as stanton got older and got out of politics may got older and died in the early two thousands But their relationship and their friendship. They're working. They're working together. Is what enabled this network kind of weather. The weather the economic pressures of meeting money to survive and then wait for the opportunity that the trump campaign in two thousand eighteen hundred sixteen and the station Presented we were just join our co host mareo. Hey everybody it's mario. You can catch me on twitter at md meal seventy nine. How's everybody how you doing. Britain good to join us. You reminded me of in a weird way The movie like be blood. You know how that guy kind of goes through Berries decades and he's always there. That's how i felt about the stance guy but are kind of a kind of a dorky version. You know where it has got Hanging on this guy kind of has his finger in so many different groups but basically with this environment environmentalist movement the zero population growth movement in the seventies. It was this big bestseller called the population bomb. This guy was around with that but a lot of it. planned parenthood and different people throughout the Decades this guy was kind of floating. Through the periphery Either helping solicit money to fund. Different people bring people into the fold and a lot of things that i thought were just kind of very independent things that just happen to be talking about the same stuff or kind of was in the. In the periphery of it was actually very coordinated. Like these people. I think safe to say i think And it's not just your book but other books That are kind of similar to this. That the right wing gets the reaction right gets very underestimated for its level of grassroots organizing people think of the word grassroots they think of it as very much in know a left wing or a hippie nethon berries thing but i think in some ways i'm better than liberals i think These guys are very good at at grass roots from the ground up organizing fundraising This guy when also you say ospel. They're very good at associating. A mental social mean with just a single word right so they can say. This guy is a socialist than it. Drums up all kinds of imagery of a socialist society people instantly think of cuba or something like that. You know what. I'm saying like just use the word and otherwise well-meaning thoughtful policies and people when they hear that all of a sudden it's like oh no you're right. You can't do this. you know. No no matter no healthcare for all because we'll be like a third world communist country you know as well as of yet one point was cuba bring venezuela like the good a euphemism as well like edition to scare words. That you say. They're good at one or two or three word euphemisms themselves so one day. It's the great replacement didn't rebranded as white genocide One day population control. Now today. it's in back. It's kind of interesting because sometimes things go on both sides of the equation like for example one day population control is good because it's about You know stopping saving resources. So they go into environmentalism then. Another time they used properties controls the bad thing by claiming that White people are being knicks. Yeah exactly why. People are being encouraged not to have kids and like wait a minute but population control was a good thing you know. But why genocide is a problem that Suddenly there are we talking about populations. There is not good for the gander and then their model not of euphemisms and moving targets. I think so one guy in family that we were saying is kind of the through line through all this is the tintin's and the main guy is what's his first name. What's his first name again. as a gun drawn santon. Yeah he just died in two thousand nineteen. I thought he was only gonna be there for like the first twenty years in on the book and then but this guy was involved all the way up until Trump yeah so deputies speed to to where we where we are awry. Let's do it. Yeah yeah but i i was we talk about like Black lives matter and the movement for black lives and how so many umbrella organizations and changed names of stopping all under a ford foundation opened foundation soro's and different things and you have to is very hard to keep track of things but you realize how things tied together and this is very much a reactionary version of that lake. There's a group called i are. I didn't realize that they are was founded by legal person. Who worked for fair and you know it was. It was on the board of that. This is a everything kinda keeps leading back to the same people the the heritage not the heritage foundation. I'm thinking not the pioneer fund. Yeah ends up being this book and has a very Clear connection to these people and the one thing that i found pretty interesting brandon and i didn't realize how oldest string the string of thing was but one of the things that brendan mentions is that they talk about one thing we're going to do is bring up. How this immigration hurts native born black people etc like concern. Trolling you know acting like. Hey when we can win people over by You know telling them that. This is going to hurt native born people but also specifically native lack people which You know whether there is some evidence for that or not that you know under immigration might hurt We'll call it black people. The most these people are still working alongside active white nationalist who want to like Sterilized or eliminate black people. So you know which one is it is it. Would you all your when mike lake regardless of how you feel about it. These people clearly are insincere about helping helping black people. If they're in bed with all these. Like open the anti-black. Yeah i mean i think one of the things to that's important to remember and take into account is that they are these. These people who bill try anything like they will experiment and adjust their tactics and their strategies and if they think that there might be some short medium or long-term benefit to introducing into their messaging. Oh you know this is you know we. We want to reduce immigration levels. Because we think that we can argue that it'll be good for black americans Than they think that you know there might be some kind of level of support that they can that they can gain from that They'll try it. They will they frequently return to the frame. The framing that you know this is a you know that this is a pro worker Appro worker political agenda. But very over. Here you know the thing that kind of gives gives away gives away. The lie of that is that you know if they were serious about being per worker they wouldn't be You know trying to. They wouldn't prioritize trying to Shut out the millions of undocumented workers that already live here they would be supporting a legal framework that allows undocumented workers to organize fight for their rights and fight for better wages and better working conditions along with citizen workers completely. It's it is very disingenuous yet. They never see. It seems to be active in the labor movement. Even for you know like like the so anti-socialists like i never really see them involving just straight up labor organizing or or anything make the solution to everything is just keep keep Immigrants out and then everything's gonna fix off you know and then you know like i said meanwhile they keep closing down factories and all across the country. Factories are leaving the country that do business and other places and then in a lot of these countries especially lot like these places in middle america. You know there's no work in a lot of these towns that you know used to have worked there and even when you talk against free trade and stuff They don't really have anything to kind of both. You know the like. I remember trump was talking against a free trade but Talking about anything to bolster what's Remains after stop. The free trade is kind of like. Hey he just stopped a free-trade. Everything's gonna magically trickle down to The worker but it's still automation there's still a host of other Factors that still will prevent like full employment but the never seems to be talk. Talk about that. it's like it's like brennan. Says they will try anything even a superficial pro blackness. You know brennan talks about for example how you know people people coming back from the vietnam. War and veterans are kind of being Post traumatic stress disorder Integrating back into society. Well and everything and even jumped into into that and and use disaffectation of vietnam. War veterans And jump to that movement for example. But they really do try to read. Do try everything. It's it's it's very very interesting. And i was doing a lot of googling as i was reading the book just to because different groups came to mind and in addition to rebranding terms and rebranding Themselves they had different names for organizations. So this one. Pfi are that. I had heard about I google and sure enough. Everything has one a two degrees of separation from tinton and fair but in addition to this web of stuff. That sounds sewn. The ferrier's there's this weird mundane this to the picture that brennan paints of him like basically this guy's always trying to Three people including the old ladies out for money very mundane crass a very racist old ladies by racist very wealthy old ladies but if we could just grab the kind of always writing letters and he's always like telling people on the deathbed you're not be great things if you leave us a lot of money like the guy gaming if you could talk about that yeah yeah sure is so he Yeah tannin's like great skill to the extent they had one was Separating Scared racist rich people from their money and giving it to him and i think i think the the one that you the particular Correspondence that you are referring to He was talking to a guy who as i recall was a i. Think the grandson of one of the major funders of the pioneer on And in one of his lead like this guy he's like he's getting on in years and in one of his letters john danton like look like you're getting old. Your esther eagled left all this money to this. Very influential eugenicist funding mechanism. And you know has this. Has this like those legacy of this contribution to the eugenicist movement and like how great is that Don't you want to do something like that and leave your money to me and my nativist movement Who you know. And by the way you know. The pioneer fund was very generous over the years to hinton's organizations and gave them millions of dollars. And actually you know. A huge chunk of archives are still eat he donated all of his art is to the library at university of And i think thirds of it is open to the public. Which is how i was able to to come through them But there are reams and reams and reams of of documents that are sealed for another couple of decades and they all are but they've been categories like the librarian. I've gone through them already. And it's so what public is kind of like what the label is on and it's just all his correspondence documents regarding his relationship with the pioneer fund. We won't be able to see what's in those for for a long time but the nativist movement and the eugenicist movement are functionally one in the same and yeah so he you know he was trying to trying to sweet. Talk this guy into leaving all of his all of his money to Detention as as an inch To to build up his legacy like his ancestor in wild. We're on the team. Before i was going to talk to was actually go. Direct this at at you you have. I think along with me have always been looking at their racer nike stuff and that movement and stuff like that and i was gonna tell you. Mario that the pioneer fund. I don't know if you Know much about them. But i'm pretty sure that based on the stuff that i know we've read independently. I'm sure you've heard of some like the main studies that they've Funded but do not disgrace an iq. People always talk about the the twin studies. The twins raised apart. Yeah via raised. Yeah had approved how that proves You know that that. I q is genetic and race-based they. The the pioneer funds are the people who funded those studies. The minnesota twin family study in texas adoption project studies. They are very known for making supposedly innocuous studies that the racist always used. So that when you see racist come to you and say well this Twin study shows that you know. Iq is genetic look at these twins or whatever and they don't tell you that hey are people are white nationalist organization the pioneer fund kinda so-called think tank funded and create the study. They're all into Making these white nationalist studies. So i just wanted to give you background that you might be interested in about the pioneer fund. Gray in along those lines Just a bit of clarification because you know we always like to try to assume that we have an educated audience but also maybe someone who's just now coming into these terms so can you guys define what you mean by native ism short I i can. I can give my definition. Trevor do you want to go to the definition on on a please. Please give i so. That's a good question. It is important to define our terms. I think that the way that i think about native as as particularly racist form of anti immigrant. Sorry particularly militant form of racist anti-immigrant politics that is organized around the principle of a like racialized national identity. And so that any Any immigration or the you know the presence of people who are not already absorbed into that national identity it poses an existential threat and kind of There's this idea that like That identity is going to be deluded Or or sort of obscured and in the united states you know this has a particular salience and cuts to the the click of deep historical memories and and and sort of Trends insofar as you know. This is a a a settler colonial nation. This is a a a post. Slave nation where the creation of the formation of white supremacy and the maintenance of white supremacy is like integral to the very idea of nationhood national identity. Nationalism in is they add religion into that as well. This is a christian nation. That's bad that's that's definitely that's definitely Part of this history. It is interesting that canton santon and scape name. At least in my understanding were not particularly religious that that was not a major factor in their in their political Concerned about you know like western civilization time right. Chris like christianity the broadest civilizational sense yet. i believe that was always code that and and and that's all of those guys at the top of that these beings man. I think something to in there too. I think that for some of these people. Christianity is of christianity culture more than a religion specifically believe so. I think our christian as an oak. Christianity is is a is a great parables. great sign of western bid treated as a western accomplishment. Same way to call democracy or other great man. I'm gonna have to keep that in mind. Lets you said it more. They treated more as like a cultural confrontation. Okay something that they've really like spiritual earnestly believe some of these people. Because i mean i'm saying from seeing how they talk about it or whatever the bring up great things that western civilization which is a code for neck white european people. Did they'll bring up that Something interesting to. I would say what you bring the the Religion question brennan's book It talks about some people who are like antisemitic in the movement but also some people who are actually that jewish and like stephen miller is like Jewish so some people. I think i think that's why some people will say judeo christian instead of Christian because when you phrased that way you can bring jewish people into the dennis prager is known for that Incorporating that i don't know if you guys are familiar with who that is. I'm sure you've heard the name before. But he He uses that phrase a lot. He he'd he goes away. You cut off for a second for me. I don't know if you cut off for carolina. Yeah bet you're right now say. Dennis prager is well known for the judeo-christian ethic that he talks about On his broadcast and he he's jewish so he was well out of his way to make emphasis of that point. So you know that feeds right into what you were saying about being a cultural thing. As a matter of fact. I think he talks about it. More along the lines of cultural phenomenon as opposed to you. Know a type of spirituality here too seriously you know at least. That's how i hear when i used to listen to that. Show nothing good for recruiting people who might not be into religion as well to frame it way without losing a religious people at the same time. Dealer peterson comes to when you talk about that kind of thing. I think also that you know like if he's sort of take a step back and realized that this you know this idea of like judeo christian civilization which as you say it's like it's really a cultural idea it's like it does not really include like You know black. Southern christians were. I never like catholics athletes from rural Like this is. This is not here talking about this specific very specific bread of Judeo-christianity that they're talking about. That's an excellent point but not at the situation the weaponize these people even the Massacre want some of these people will use mexican conservatives you know as you know mascot so us back back conservatives or whatever you know but but you could tell there's nothing sincere about it and that they would turn on them in in a second When when convenient especially when you look at some of the other people these people are in are in bed with ed. Yeah i mean the web of stop was so crazy. 'cause i'm very into reading about the pioneer fund and stuff and had no idea that such direct ties to Fair which. I didn't know it is tied to white white nationalism. Even though i knew a lot of times our goals the goals aligned united no that that's an active connection connections to that. Oh yeah yeah. also Pioneer for and had a lot to do with the bell curve the bell curve as well Yeah but give me an idea of how innocuous this stuff can be or how can it can pop up right. We had a guest a couple of weeks ago and a lot of people thought. Like you know i Took a lot of airtime for the guests. Because i kind of had to jump in because the guests was talking about stuff was the leftist Guest name garrison lovely and he brought up very You know inaccuracy innocently about this Twin studies and whatever relations something else and add to jump in there and say those twin studies are funded by the worst people on unearth. You have no idea. I've run into a lot and to give him a quick history but also there's like faulty sign's behind them that you know it's not just i hurt feelings or whatever it's a lot of Forty signs that has been disproven. A lot of these people are very good at inventing mundane things that i feel like i wish. A lot of left and liberal organizers are better at and one of them is marketing their ideas and like non during them into a powder form for the mainstream. So you meet a lot of people who talk about these Twin studies in other things that the person might be against the bell curve. The bell curve is kind of more explicit and exposes racist but they might casually bang studies. Things or other things at the pioneer fund has gone into the mainstream. And you know taking their fingerprints offer white nationalist and also i wanted to point out as well. There's some other things that fit under. Did into that umbrella as well. They go back even further than things like the twin studies in. That's this idea. For example. How infiltrates the medical field. The idea that Black people are able to Endure more pain does need less amounts of Pain medication and things like bad. So that's what's so prevalent that it was actually even still believed by new medical students. People are just getting into medical school and things like that. They actually still held a lot of those beliefs. So it kinda like this. It's somehow turn to like this common knowledge. That black people can endure more pain. And so we don't need as much you know vicadin or whatever Post op medication. That you need to manage pain. We don't need as much as everybody else. Does you know what i'm saying. So those types of ideas infiltrate heavily man. You have to always be on the lookout for stuff like that. I think there's also something to be said about the like the people on the far right who are pursuing bill representing a far right political projects when they produce these like scientific studies were policy papers. Or what have you can give the formal official language. They're really. They're not necessarily like introducing a new idea or a new narrative. People what they're doing is giving justification or a language to something that a lot of people in this country either already believe with or familiar to them like the idea of being the idea. The idea in the discourse of native ism is something that is already present in this sort of like subterranean way in american political discourse whereas on the left like we have a lot farther to go in in kind of like introducing the is the guts like another world is possible like we're asking people to imagine something that has never been done before whereas the advantage right has is that they are able to mobilise like you know just like is in the end like the reactionary traditionalist ideas That are that are that are at their core Represses in exploitative and oppressive But are at the very least like they're able to do it in a in a narrative a story that people can feel familiar with. I forget the phrasing or the metaphor simile but What is it called when you like. Oh salty earth. I feel like They had a big head. Start insulting the earth against Ideas that radicals and left left. This have the same time. I think they're very much the devil you know for a lot of people like a lot of people at least whether it's been good to them abacha them understands. What a capitalist society looks like. You know you know that's that. Yeah you and i have had these conversations a million times. You know that you know what i'm talking about like we've had these conversations so much about how we know what or at least was passed office capitalism. We know exactly what that looks like. And then the disadvantage that Those of us who are more on the left have is that oftentimes is very difficult to point to an example of you know what our ideal situation will be because it really doesn't exist in a lot of forms you know what i'm saying because there's always this more. I guess you could say demonstrative liberty negative aspects of some of that stuff you know when they point to things like venezuela cuba etcetera etcetera. But what they don't tell you. Is that a lot of that stuff is caused by outside interference and sabotage a so. That's deeper than than you know. We're going to have time for here but you know i totally agree with like for cuba's an example this horrible socialist country. This is with socialism gets you but then you don't talk about economic embargoes you don't talk about. Not being able to train with other countries like the also. We'll talk you. Don't talk about the good things that happened. So for example Everyone's able to get. The healthcare and cuba was able to send doctors to other countries to Help with their covert stuff because you know so. Many doctors and that gets very underplayed so ambitious. You're hiding how the us responsible for the bad things that happen. Outside forces are responsible they also make sure to under report. Any positive aspects ran. Come out of any of this. Great point grey port. I think that's like part of the part of what i talk about in. The book is the context that a lot of this like the the anti-immigrant politics is happening in and big part. You know part of the part of neoliberalism in addition to the kind of economic restructuring of the seventies eighties in the political regimes that were inaugurated by reagan and thatcher Like the expansion of the police stayed of. Mass incarceration is that. There's a kind of discursive shift neoliberal. Capitalism is very good making it impossible to conceive of any other way of living in a way that earlier forms of capitalism were less good at doing And that seems to be part of what's like shaking loose in the past. Couple of years is beginning to be able to imagine alternatives But that's you know that's conversely that's part of the left project is to is to push people beyond like just imagining it but actually starting to move towards it. I think that started with the With the bailouts happened in two thousand eight once people saw that a lot of people that were even more you know along the lines of moderate to write once they saw how the country was willing to do corporate welfare on a massive scale like that a lot of myself included said to hell with that then seeing about a market decided by now that that all had went out of the window when you saw that expensive demonstrative fashion. You know what. I'm saying. So when i left that use that as exhibit a in any conversation that they have when it comes to things like this and something that really gets me upset right is lot of people in the left sometimes can be pedants and be very pedantic about stuff so bernie sanders said once We said several times he goes This country that Is against socialism for people but is okay with socialism for the rich and he brought about bailouts. The stuff like that and what's funny is back in the day when i used to lean more. Right you know is to believe in that type of Pro black form of conservatism. Like not that current candidates owen strain but Marin i've talked about how these market is kind of pro version of conservatives in Back in the two thousands. That was one of the arguments that really kind of shook me. Shook me up Similar to like what you were talking about. The bailouts was like that it was very effective. And when bernie sanders said it. I saw all these people on twitter. Saying oh i hate this phrasing because actually schilling very called only expert good just switched to get you know explain to the people the nuances of why. That's technically Naturally but i think these people don't have that problem they just. They'll say whatever they have to do. They will have any information they have to be with. You know they will bring up a black workers and act like they're they care about them. They'll bring up anything. I think that's one big thing that can be learned from. These people have to get the job done. Fell called out here with a make. Your point is well taken. What thing about this book book mario is. You can read it like in a weekend like like what did i like about. It is that there's someone called david garrow and this another guy. His name is karl rove he writes those Maschler the senate books whatever or perlstein who write these really really super exhaustive down into the weeds. Weeds type books about this book is it's kind of like a skeleton that ties together which stays light information because it's not but it doesn't really go super super into the weeds. But it gives you a nice framework where there's a lot of these things i knew about separately and maybe like a deeper dive into but i never really got a picture. How all inter relates. But the last third of the book is resources and books that you can go into if you wanna do a deeper dive into any particular or any particular subset of any of this stuff so within the of the main book and also in the final resources section it's It gives you all the information you need. If you really want to deep dive into for example the tucker books on the pioneer fund. I had read those previously. Any mentioned is there any mentions the pioneer fund. But it gives you enough of a picture of all the disparate parts of this. You know again idea. What a big multi armed octopus. This is but without Killing you with details just pointing you where you have to go. And i was talking about there before we started recording but i wanted to let people at home kind of getting idea of what you know just book and what i think is a big strength of it because i wasn't really a question but statement is yeah yeah but The i was crazy to me. Was that one thing. One thing i think is that. I don't think it's crazy to worry about open borders and you know how it's going how it's going to work as in There have been studies by some some people who are not affiliated with these people but You know like black academics that you talk about how with immigrant unskilled immigration that cetera. That the black. The native born black workforce absorb disproportionate amount of the brunt of some of it and give plausible arguments. I don't know all the counter. Or whatever but i think it's kind of a plausible thing to talk about at least if you want to Assuage suedes people That this is going to be safe but the problem. That i kind of realized when i was reading this book is that it's very hard to have a good faith approach to this stuff because it seems like anywhere you turn. Do you have to get embedded right nationalist people and that's that's something that i wanted to Kind of talk about like. Is there a space to have a good faith. Discussion in this rena. When these people have ceded orono got their hooks into every single portion of this. You know like they've pretty much dominated. The research dominated discourse found in good faith Discussion of this kind of stuff anywhere. There's some really good question. i mean. The is yeah like on on on the right amongst conservatives and even liberals you have and may when in my opinion is really just variations on the same kind of argument is like you know Which is like always presupposing like a hard binary between citizens and non-citizens americans and non americans and and whether whether you're a liberal or or a fire at fireeye reactionary kind of operating within that framework and then on the left you know there are some people that are offering more nuanced way of thinking about it but in most cases i think we find ourselves falling into and i have done this myself. i'm not. I'm not exempt from from this. We ended up falling into kind of sloganeering And standing behind a leading having a hard conversation about president conditions by focusing on you know the usual that we are working towards. Which is you know at least for a lot of people and left A world without a world without borders. But that you know that's not that's not like a policy framework that in be applied To think that go ahead. I thought you thought you were done using. I do think so so. Please finish in say. Yeah i was. I was just gonna say i think that like kind of like saying before that like if we are if we are serious about applying like looking at the way that the Like the the working class in the united states but really across north america and around the world is the way that it is The management of labor and the way that labor is exploited. We have to think about migrant labor and we have to think about the role of borders and immigration enforcement and in the in the us pacific -ly migrant labor and undocumented migrant labor in particular plays a really critical role shinning of st economy already. And so it seems to me that like you know it. Yeah if we just if we just jump to like okay we just need to demilitarise. The border decriminalized all border crossings and just never wants to come and go ken. I mean that's never going like that's just not a realistic thing to organize for under the aren't on current political terrain. But i think that we can think of like what are the kinds of. What kinds of labor organizing can we orient ourselves around that are oriented towards bringing citizen and non-citizen workers together about building power for undocumented workers in the industries where they are highly concentrated in like agriculture like direction. Light service industries And kind of using that as our starting point to build towards what is a just and equitable way of thinking about immigration that creates a livable existence. Go for all workers their respective their of their citizenship status. Because you're right. People do have legitimate concerns that are not necessarily driven by rachel anxiety like fear of white genocide. that's not the only reason to be worried about one concrete example. I'll give is that when i'm bernie. Sanders said some stuff about you know like for immigration and wants to immigrants but he also wants to be sure that to protect You know workers in america and that we keep that in mind too when a lot of people in the left got very upset with him but then Energy and legal rights this thing like the left case for You know Immigration control of whatever. And you know i read. It was like oh okay well. There's some interesting points brought here. I don't know if i support the whole thing but This interesting conversation to be to be had here but then The next week she goes on tucker carlson and a toll turned up. I was like okay if this is what we're gonna have to do to have this conversation. I'm not. I'm not interested. You know what i mean. And and i just feel like all roads always end up leading There which kind of frustrates weeded. There's no place to have a kind of good faith conversation about Any of this because it seems like People always sooner or later end up getting their research from these people or trying to form some kind of loose coalition with sooner or later the worst people on earth in the in my books also that you know something that on the left we have to get better at doing is being careful to remember that you know. I think as much as we defend the if people's right to the freedom of movement that also has to be coupled with the right to have the freedom to stay Which is actually something. Like which is something that i believe. The the deputy says From a very very early on were at critique they articulated which is that you know. People are displaced across the global south by imperialism by climate crisis. Which is caused by By droughts and flooding and all of these things that are driven by the political and economic forces of the global north gabler displays. You know given the choice. Most people would probably just would prefer to stay with you. Know in their in their homes where their families are grew up. Like and so this conversation. Part of the reason why you know the right. And people like tucker. Carlson are always so happy to bring on You know to hear from leftists that are willing to entertain kind of immigration restriction. Est ideas is will the condition. They're they're. they're happy to do that. So long as you're not also going to talk about Imperialism and thank you that you can't even have that conversation in good faith without discussing imperialism in the things that that you know the west dust to keep certain countries in in a in a state of economic deprivation to where people feel like they have no choice but to leave and go seek You know greener pastures elsewhere. You know so you create the problem that you complain about and you don't want any real genuine solutions. It's is unbelievable to me that a great a great example to is a great example to is that Jewelry door recent controversy where he came out and said. Hey guys i talked to a big lou boy and guess what there are pro environment and pro. This trying to say that these guys could be a good allied allied to the left. But basically he took him at face value as to what they said they were and it reminded me of like reading this book about how these people have smuggled themselves into like environmental movements into Population control movements into superficially labor focused Moomins or whatever. And i. I was just so shocked like the the night. Naievety of what jimmy door was saying tweet. People don't take into consideration that you have on both ends of both extreme ends of the aisle right and left you're gonna have overlap in certain general ideas right so for example. The burglar boys are in favor of eliminating the current system that we have right now as well at least in their their widely known stated goals. The problem is they have totally different end. Game in mind than leftists may have in dismantling capitalism in the way that the us government operates right now dismantling imperialism things like that. Their goal is a hell of a lot different. A lot of people fall into that trap to like for example like someone because they're against You know restricting access to guns but You might want to do it to protect to be perhaps armed self defense. You know as a black person they want it because they wanna start a race war and exactly exac- a great example in now see now. You got me feeling called out now. I feel called out a little bit because that's one of my struggles is internally you know no but I've seen you call name name name names. Because i don't want to have proved that these people have ties with white nationalist but we talked about people that we said at least carelessly seem to be promoting like the wrong kind of program people. Yeah yeh particularly because it's never been proven that they advertise to what. I don't wanna sixteenth libraries. But you do you think. Do you think that there's something there's something there's this in safar as like. We're all living through the same crisis right. And so to a certain extent the people who are looking for ways to respond to that crisis and create something different there's going to be a formal similarity in that if you're not careful and if you're sort of naive if you are not someone who is actually connected to to to movements and political education struggle you can get taken in The let's maybe through your knife or your you know whatever it is. It almost doesn't matter Not able to see. Oh this is this is this is. This is disingenuous this is. I'm not seeing the bigger picture. And that. can you know that can create the appearance of ireland. Some kind of like overlap similarities. But i think that it's superficial because you you say like if you look at the content of what is that people want and are fighting for. It is actually not just different. But completely completely contradictory one candidate mutually exclusive right. Exactly one hundred percent. But i think you know what we have a lot of times. People have the suffer from this being of we'll cross that bridge when we come there. You know what i mean. And so they're willing to take in allies if they agree on you know ninety percent of something they're willing to take on or at least partner with certain unsavory groups of people in order to get to whatever their main is and then they have this this false assumption that you know once we get there then we can deal with destroyed the ever the ten percent that we don't agree with once we get to the end game. That's not a guarantee. You know what i mean like you get once you guys accomplish. Whatever you're ninety percent is that ten percent can be stupid detrimental right. It could be you know something that can can destroy you and the other side wins like they have the same thought process. You know what i'm saying like that's why is just like is always this constant. Do we throw the baby out with the bath water because we don't agree on there's one ten percent thing and we agree with ninety percent of everything else or do we just stay away all together. I think a lot of groups are struggling with that. You know as something something. I notice about why that doesn't work as well is Politics and i feel like when you have converts zeal or fresh out the gate zeal. And everybody has these moments like you know. Enjoyed ran up. George flora kind of feeling of Mobilization promontory talks about mobilization versus organization. And if anyone who google that speech is pretty good. We're talks about how mobilization and he gives an example like Martin luther king was a very good mobilizer. He was you know able to get a protest up running really fast. He was able to get a lot of energy happening but he never really built a framework when there was a election for you know the sudden christian Whatever leadership He he didn't do politics good enough to form the relationship you needed to lake win this election. Or whatever you know. But i said malcolm x. for example was a very good organizer everytime we went to a city and spoke and a lot of people don't notice about him and a big problem is A lot of people get this. Get their stuff from the autobiography by addicts haley and and the movie by spike. Lee didn't talk about a lot of the nuts and bolts of what malcolm x. but everywhere malcolm x. Left he left a mosque. He was very big into grassroots organizing and structural stuff so he created a lot of mosques whereas martin luther king didn't really after he left the city after protesting relieve anything behind and the internet nowadays. And all this stuff with variety is very very good at mobilizing. But it's not great at all is in organizing slow right and i think one problem that to add to what to add to what mario said another reason why i think the night attending doesn't work because people can't keep it together in my experience long enough to even make it to the point where They get what they want. Because because of the slow process though that ten percent ends up causing infighting vaunting apart before you cross the finish line you know with those alliances of convenience. You know like like ooh look like how in this this thing with danton. He couldn't stick around with zero population growth people because they weren't going on board with his hardline Immigration stuff like another reason that you just can't last very long in these Coalitions you might last long enough to mobilize but you're not gonna last long enough to actually organized and that's where you really cross the finish line. That's a great point. Yeah and you know in in a weird way you as you talking about max. Creating these lasting institutions that are then able to sustain struggle over time through the ebb and flow of Different mobilizations like tinton broke with other parts of the concentration is movement then created these institutions. That were able to endure. And then when the moment came they were ready in that moment took shape of trump trump trump campaign and trump administration. And i do agree for sure that we're on the left where in a moment of being able to mobilize people very quickly. But it's very reactive. It's very like own. Yeah it was always kind of in response to In response to one like immediate crisis or another and that's necessary like we have to. We have to be able to do that But it's always you know we're not being we're not able to to create like kind of crisis new able to create things on our own and create a crisis on our own terms because we haven't built up the kinds of institutions that that connects was was trying to and was ended Succeeded that to a certain. I'm going to tell you guys something It's hard to blame the left or or black radicals or immigration reform people or any of these people. It's hard to blame them for now. Organizing because i feel like one key part to organize things to make people feel like there's a real unifying Crisis you know That requires more than just just mobilizing. Because i think emotion and being reactive is not gonna be enough to keep you Active because you get tired you know. Even the george floyd thing like the outrage got kinda tiring kind of burnt itself out you to a degree And and really kind of woke me up to this. Is this freaking cova thing. This cova thing does not have people wanting universal healthcare To the point that they're willing to like storm the white house for it. It just is not doing it. People like we just wait for vaccines. Free market will handle it. I was like wow. We are really screwed. Best mass unemployment and all that stuff bernie sanders going to have this huge surge at the last second. I'm like oh my god. This is a gift to bring sanders. Then people were like this biden is going to be the old with the old tried and true. So i think that's gonna really be a big problem as far as organizing that maybe i think the biggest obstacle to the left in this country is the the centre-left you know what i'm saying like the the moderate democratic establishment is probably a bigger obstacle to overcome the right with me. You know what. I'm saying a lot of ways because i'm with ut. I i'm very shocked. I still scratching my head on how well actually no. I'm not scratching my head. Because i know how you know the internal politics of the parties with kept Bernie from really getting huge chris. that's a whole nother discussing for him every day. But you know. I still find myself amazed that you know here. We are again. You know people get more up in arms over instagram outage like if if instagram and twitter and facebook down for like a week. I think people being a trap. Eating i eating a week and somebody's gotta die trek bro. Instagram has any type of bad for a few hours. People are hitting them up immediately. Like hey what's going on here. I'm not getting a minute. I'm not getting as many likes on my selfie. As i normally do to hell's going on see my ass and meal and that's is driving me. Yeah but healthcare people dying. Wait and see hashtag and we'll see where it goes from there. I want to read this passage by brendan. This is mario. This is a great depiction of this guy and his like a constant reminder. Oh i think there was a movie. I think it was was called like the lady killers or something. It was kind of movie where this guy was always getting getting money from old women and poisoning them or something and whatever and this thing so reminded me of the movie. The lady killers was alec guinness. It's funny british movie but it goes into this lady may is a descendant of the mellon family break. And it's kinda funny. 'cause carnegie mellon has the foundation associated with a lot of Liberal left wing causes. I think but these other mountains. I think are related to the same. The same melons. Right directly have have like almost a billion dollars worth of donations. Some of them was heinous people. So basically they funded both sides of the of the culture war depending on which which mellon. You're talking about this. This this may lady is when the melons. A super racist you know and it says in two thousand. Five facing terminal pancreatic cancer diagnosis may fix created herself with a plastic bag. Leaving behind it. Eight hundred and twenty five million dollar estate in the years following her suicide filing showed the call com foundation which was may's primary funding vehicle toward the end of her life received. Four hundred and forty one million eight hundred eighty six thousand and twelve dollars from as the state and the cornelia estimated family trust another more opaque funding vehicle as well as oliver personal property in more than four hundred and fifty acres of real estate between two thousand and six thousand seventeen so overlapping trump era addicted that saw unprecedented mobilization of migrant workers comprehensive immigration reform twice defeated in the us congress and the election of donald trump maze. Cocom foundation poured approximately one hundred and thirty eight million into the ten network that that same guy most of which would not have existed with her support in the first place so i help support the creation of all these things and after her death is a perfect example of like creating things that less they all this money Put into it. The bulk of that money went to fair. a. r. the center for immigration studies. Which i heard before. And i not know was tied to these people and so this book and numbers. Usa three of the biggest anti immigration tanks that tant either founded or nurtured in the trump administration political appointees almost every federal department that immigration as well as a stall assistant secretary of state nominee include tanta network post on their resumes. And i thought that was really a testament to how good this guy was at getting money out of these these people. Yeah so yeah. It's pretty remarkable. Yes so this guy was active from two thousand. This guy was active from like the seventy s. All the way to do now and most of us haven't even heard his name. Yeah keep it that way. They don't like him they're like roaches. Man they don't like exposure today light they may in the dark man. Yeah they don't They don't like attention. I feel like it's a big problem with the black movements though because because i'm black movements for example yet the black lives matter protest the first one second ones and we've had so many kind of names pop out of that. We've we had like the three black lives matter. Founders de ray all these people but if he has like who is a superstar came out of this fair thing man a lot of these names. Unless you're an avid researcher. The stuff you know rushton is not really a household name. is not really household. Name mc all these people like you know they're much better at Just getting the grass roots stuff done and and keeping their names kind of Hidden do you think it helps to have. It helps to have hundreds of millions of dollars to play with and serve experiment. What do you think that's deliberate or you know. Have there been people who have own wanted to be kind of superstars and make names themselves. Like yeah i think so I mean in a way cordelia escape maze older brother. Richard's gave Is is one of those he he gives even more money to a wider array of conservative causes over the course of his life and i didn't really shy away from the spotlight he wasn't he wasn't like You know he wasn't like the coke brothers who were very careful and deliberate about how they engage with media and cultivate a public profile So you know. I don't know there are. There are some people on the right. How how to this ruling chicken got described -til on fuel seems to be We're can kenneth seem like he didn't want to really be exposed as behind the hulk hogan lawsuit and some other stuff but sometimes he does seem. He's a weird when he's much in book to where he seems to kind of vacillate back and forth between wanting to publicly You know show his beliefs in wanted to stay in the shadows. I think i mean just by virtue of his actions we can see that there are some things that he wants to be associated with them some things that he that he doesn't and i think that to a certain extent i think that You know having having a reputation as like a mad. Imagine ious like an evil secret. Evil billionaire part of his branding. you know. I don't think he shies away from it. exactly out the i mean. I think that he You know on the other hand you know one something is out there. He kind of embraced it Which is you know. Sort of trump the enjoyed with Trumpian shamelessness. I don't know i think i think there. I think you know. They're the these billionaires in these people they're very They're very flux ball. Yeah you know interesting but what you says Even when tannin diet it was interesting how they did not still wasn't signing his work like is In eulogy was mentioned everything. But this is just. This was a nice Old civics civic minded guy. You know it's fred is interesting even even death This guy who has such a huge impact on all this stuff and a finger in so many anti democratic Reactionary pots was very close to the vest fascinating. Yeah today you know. The organizations themselves kind of distance themselves from him for just the practical reason that like it is not. You know it's it's it's bad optics to be associated with someone who is openly Openly using natives indeed semitic conspiratorial language and describing their political project. Even you know it's kind of like you're saying before it's not. The problem is not the problems not being raised as the problem is like being perceived as racist yes And that is that holds true for that is true on the right as it does for for liberals something i found interesting the ties into what you just said is something called the stage theory by. Somebody called swiss red. And when i read your section on the stage theory to stage theories very much to me like that infamous lee atwater interview in nineteen eighty. One where he talks about the sudden strategy. Lee atwater was talking to republicans can win the vote of racist without sounding racists themselves and This is a quote is the past as you goes you start out in nineteen fifty four by saying nigger nigger nigger resonates and sixty eight. You can't say nigger that hurts you backfires so you stay stuff like Forced busing state's rights and all that stuff and you're getting so abstract now you're talking about cutting taxes and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is black. Hurt worse than whites quote we wanna cut. This unquote is much more abstract than even the bussing thing And a hell of a lot more abstract than nigger nigger and then stace theory disguise. Swin rudd said something. We're saying stuff that the ten network on wanted to kind of hide as tantamount saw The political project being undertaken by fair is just from a book if successful would invite three kinds of responses is the first stage is a knee jerk reaction that the united states is a nation of immigrants were people refused to even consider or talk openly by immigration as a potential problem. Because the statue of liberty's poem. Bring your tired your poor and end the discussion. He explained to fares newly newly hired director in nineteen eighty five the second stages the caveat stage where people say nine hundred you to understand that. I'm not racist native. Rhys or mean. But i've been thinking about this. And what is the effect on. The american blacks. They have to compete in miami when they can't speak english so that's the pause where they say. I'm not a bad person. But i've been thinking about it and it's other. The is some substance here. Then you continue. The third stage is where we can have free and open discussions about it One of fairs basic goals is to make immigration legitimate topic. I wanted to ask you like it seems to me. That's similar to kind of the sudden strategy where it's like you trying to get people on board with stuff without triggering. Part of them doesn't wanna seem racist. And i was wondering about contrasting that with the reason why they left zero population group because it seems like at some point he wanted to be more kind of balls to the wall and overt with this stuff but between then and eighty five. He himself realized the power of subtlety. Yeah yeah that's an interesting comparison. I think you know one of the things. That is so chilling about at water subscription. Southern strategy is how clear-sighted. It was in terms of like the ability to sublimate this vulgar racism in vulgar white supremacy into more acceptable more civil sounding language without losing any of the Without losing any of the kind of toxicity in the and violence of you know what the language is saying and ten is describing with this seat Stage theory idea. Is i think in a way kind of is in a way. it's kind of the opposite. Because what he wants is to push the terms of the conversation and the discourse in a direction where people can like away from the kind of subornation and away from the kind of coded language into being able to talk about as he said immigration openly as as a as a problem the problem of immigration which was not something at the time that was just it was just not a way that people is not it was just like kind of not in the discourse is way way of thinking about this And so it is. I do think. I do think that there is their similarities to to to the southern strategy. Into what is doing But i think it's the it's almost in the opposite direction. Always saying like no. It's okay to be racist. it's okay. It's okay to have these conversations. What tanzania saying actually as you're describing. I kind of figure it out. How is not a contradiction. I think. I think you're right. And it's not a contradiction to his stance with zero population. Growth either it seems at this is a through line that of goes through. He's similar to atwater in that he wants to soft soft pedal or Downplay the racist part the part that's anti-black or anti non white but He's opposite of atwater that he wants to be more bold with the immigration discourse so he's like He wants to be more explicit more bold demonsration stuff in which case. You're right he is opposite then at what he wants to be able to Call out immigration problem as immigration problem and not using euphemism. But the racial aspect of the immigration. Problem seems to be like a third rail where they don't want to tie the immigration Problem to explicitly to right nationalist. Even though they're more than willing to Get in bed with. Get in bed with white white nationalist. So yeah i think in a way. We're both right. He's he's like well they get water when it comes to actual like people even trying to make it seem like he's for them but he's the anti at water when it's time to talk about immigrants. He wants it to be known. That's what they're talking about. Yeah and you're in a way like as dogmatism. Kind of thing about it like he. The tannin's political project is kind of it's happening. After the southern strategy like proved to be a six was successful and like the southern strategy worked and so he's operating within that paradigm and even within Archives in his correspondence even privately. It seems to me that he was very careful. Not to fall into Like a kind of open explicit white nationalism like even in his private correspondence with other you know other people who share his values in his beliefs. He was talking in terms of in terms of culture in terms of you. Civilizational norms in terms of In terms of just like social social values and so in a way kinda in ways the kind of beneficiary or outgrowth of atwater atler southern strategy but he does want immigration to be discussed explicitly. iphone term. I think one way they mesh is that He wants to add immigration to the list of the things that atwater says are preferable You know to the n. Word like like he wants to inch immigration as you know in addition to cutting taxes and all this stuff include immigration reform as as one of those things that you can do without having to explicitly Racist you are There's a lot more to the book. And i don't want to just give people the feeling they can. Just listen to this interview not having to read the book so there's a lot of stuff i deliberately wanted to leave You know on the table on undiscussed. But i wanted to close out to ask. You does anything that you feel like. You do want to talk about that. We haven't discussed discussed from the book that that you think is Or just any final thoughts or any final plugs. That that you wanna give well. I guess i'll just. I mean one of the things that i do that i would be curious to hear. Hear your thoughts on Is that our conversation. This far has really focused on on stanton and gave may and the kind of Ruling class apparatus is that developed over the course of the past century to regulate in adjust Flows of immigration. And all of that. But you know a large part of the book is about more contemporary far right organizing That in the kind of resonance and relationship between these sort of elite policy oriented people and the rank and file Proud boys and bigalow boys and and like and you know. I spent a lot of time in the book. On vantage part. Of what i think is sort of different about this book is that i'm trying to figure out. Like what is the relationship between Between these different groups in how how do they relate to each other. So i don't know. I'm curious what you what your takeaway from from those parts of the book. Were sure. sure i'll tell you. I'll tell you this about the proud boy Stuff on this is. There is a lot of connection to the proud boys that i found pretty interesting and I guess one reason. Why focused much on be Older historical stuff. I guess is because i was very taken by How all this stuff isn't how far back it goes and i might not have done a good job. Inexpensively tying it into things like the proud boys and biglou stuff which you do. Yeah exactly exactly but you do you do a through line of bringing all the way through trump and gavin mcginnis and one thing one thing that really drove me crazy and still drives me. Crazy happens all the time. I did a recent very long threat on on twitter about it whereas laying out the map. Of gavin mcginnis white nationalist roots. And he's had white nationalist tattoos since like the nineties screwdriver. You mentioned all that stuff like you did your homework. A big problem. I really have is how and similar to the jimmy. Dorothy where he said. Hey talked to a big lou boy and you won't believe this. They're they're anti this this this too just like us. And we used to his word at what he believes. You know Simply mcginnis a lot of people kind of mcguinness's had several. Wow this thing happened and made me realize that maybe political correctness is bad and that I'm being turned into Conservative or reactionary by discovering these new facts but then when you look into his history since canada is his ancestor nineties. When he was young. He's been in this world forever and yulia people a lot of the time and it drives me nuts. There was this Journalists i knew who writer who lived in brooklyn and You know modern person a few times. Who tweeted oh. It's so funny. That gavin mcginnis. No as a bit you know. Or whatever courted these white supremacists and you know. Ironically now he's kind of trapped. Do this and i'm like no. No no no no no and it drove me nuts and i think one reason is that i feel like vice and government. Guinness in aesthetic has done so much Like besides gawker. I think vice is probably the most influential thing on the voice of modern New york or slash alternative alternative media that camping to thousands lot of people to void saying that they were kind of taken in by this guy and so much of people's aesthetic beauty having a very different politics from again is You know came from mccain's vice that they've kind of made this cope where they tell themselves that he was ironic thing and and you know just just lost the plot or in the movies with cock was on the cover and then go student cover and stuff and i really wanted to compliment that part of the book that you do not even in new york times recently had articles like actual journalists that should do basic research. How do you You know right that this is a hipster wing guy who You know a recent hilter and it's not what it is. He's always been this guy. And i think i think that's a really Good part of the book with the proud boys is that you don't buy into that narrative which infuriates me. Yeah i try to be very careful to show that gavin in particular has been in this world for for a minute now. He's he's not a he's not. He's not a recent convert by any stretch yet provides. Yeah yeah yeah so It goes very into like today's current events and news so yeah definitely definitely read it not just for a history lesson but it all goes right into right into the present and yet thanks. Thanks for joining us. I hope we Got all the best parts of the book out there without Over explain the booking giving giving people you know enough that they want to go check it out. I think it's pretty good book. And and the resource section. I think is really great too. I think he did a really good job on giving people places to go to Flush out and add some more meat to the bone if they want to. Yeah i hope so. There's a lot of incredible work. That's been done On on these subjects that i learned a lot from and so it was important to me to be able to share that with with anybody who interested yet and we do extend the invitation to you now is that we We have a livestream that we did to livestream is for like more topical things things in the news things that aren't like you know big ideas or whatever that You know would be kind of stale in a week or two so I was gonna say in the future if anything happens like you know in the news. For example there's like another capital rights type thing We love to have you on the live stream to canada. Talk about our current events or whatever so Would be happy to yeah great so thanks thanks again and tell people again where to find you on twitter if they wanna follow you. Sure thing it's my handle is at underscore brendan g. r. e. n. d. a. n. Okay any websites I mean yeah. I like my portfolios. Brendan dash o'connor dot com. I'm a freelancer. So i'm all over the place all key. Great in the book is Blood blood red lines. Definitely check it out and take brandon and to everyone out there be good. Thanks so much june.

kellyanne conway brendan paul erlich stephen miller republican party canton santon panton carnegie mellon carnegie carnegie mellon erlich John danton brennan Ernie paul ernest cornelius cuba charlie federation for american immigr united states
Cargills CEO on a Sustainable Future of Food in a Warming World

TIME's Top Stories

11:35 min | Last month

Cargills CEO on a Sustainable Future of Food in a Warming World

"Brought to you. By american express business american express offers a line of cards dow. Take your business further because with needs like yours. You need a card belt for business. Can the future of food be sustainable in a rapidly. Growing world cargoes. Ceo says they're investing in it by ben shapiro. the scale and reach of cargill. The nation's largest private company is staggering the minnesota based company which operates in seventy countries and has one hundred fifty five thousand employees is involved in a range of businesses across the food chain from selling fee to farmers commodities in meat processing cargill had revenues of one hundred thirty four point four billion dollars in its most recent fiscal year which is equal to about point. Zero six percent of the nation's gdp on august ninth cargill entered the us poultry market by joining continental grain and acquiring sanderson farms for four point. Three billion dollars. One of the largest deals in cargill's one hundred fifty six year history as a leader in global. Agriculture cargill is taking steps to make it supply chain more sustainable and equitable and has embarked on splashy ventures to reduce its carbon footprint. It's teamed up with a company started by a british sailing champ to develop enormous wing sales nearly fifteen storeys high to mount on the deck of cargo ships cargill's geneva-based ocean transportation unit operates a fleet of more than six hundred ships the new wind propulsion technology. Which is aiming to launch next year could reduce co two emissions by as much as thirty percent on the ships that deploy it according to cargo. It's also teamed up with a uk startup to distribute a mask like device for cows that captures methane produced when the bovine belches converting it into less damaging co two cargo which is a huge producer of a wide range of animal feeds is also working on new feed formulations that would produce less gas in cows big food companies are increasingly focused on how to satisfy the world's growing demand for protein cargill. Ceo david maclennan sites a statistic that global protein demand will increase by about seventy percent by twenty fifty as the world population approaches. Nine billion people in anticipation of that need cargill is investing in the development of cell and plant based protein. for instance. it supplies fo- meet maker beyond meet with the pea protein. Used to make its products. It's also investing heavily in the complex and controversial field of aquaculture providing fishmeal to the growing number of fish farms around the world mclennan recently joined time for a video conversation on the challenges of a tight labor market whether cargo will ever go public and the future of food time cargill touches so many aspects of the supply chain where are you experiencing shortages or inflation mclennan like many companies were seeing some labor shortages particularly in north america in our animal protein supply chain. We do have a lot of touch points in the supply chains. We start with the farmer where the food is produced and we have trucks rail barges ocean transportation to get it to where it's consumed or further processed but by and large things are working other than the exception of tight labor supply in north american protein. Is that the meat packing plant specifically yes. North american proteins are still pretty labor intensive businesses one meatpacking plant might have two thousand employees over three shifts so the labor shortage is going to be more noticeable and more pronounced. It's constraining production not significantly. But it means that you have to run the plant a little slower not at full capacity. These are some of the toughest jobs in the nation. What's your view on why there are labor shortages. I think it's a combination of things number. One is people are choosing not to return to those jobs. They are tough jobs in people have more choices. Today with a tight. Labor supply and a lot of different industries looking for labor number. Two is that immigration constraints have put a crimp on access to labor immigrant. Labor was what powers plants and kept the food supply chain up and running. I think you've got an impact from the government aid that has come through kovic relief like many industries. People have been given support from government programs. So i think it's a combination of those factors that have led to tightness in the labor supply in your view is the labor shortage transitory or lasting. That's a great question today isn't it. I think it's permanent. People have different way of thinking about their work. I just read an article about virtually zero population growth in the us. These are things that have been predicted for a long time with a shrinking labor force of the baby boomers and smaller generations of millennials. Z's i think it's a permanent shift and are you losing valued veteran colleagues. Who are saying. I've had a good run. And now i'm going to go off and grow organic blueberries. Yes we have. Certainly there are people that have said you know. I had a good run and i had a good career and having a year of different working structure has given me a different perspective. We are seeing that now. Where are you seeing inflation. I go back to wage. Inflation in our plants is wage inflation permanent and our meatpacking plants. I don't know because you've always got automation and technology which is modernizing these plants and so that may offset inflationary price pressures anywhere else. Commodity prices are high their much higher than they were a year ago. We've had strong. Demand from china for both corn and soybeans so stocks had become very tight asset. Prices have gone up but that's yet to roll through to the grocery stores. Cargill has been criticized for its timetable on deforestation in regards to soy in brazil. You're eliminating deforestation from your soy supply chain by twenty thirty. Why not faster. I think it's wanting to make commitments that we feel. We could deliver upon the supply chains in brazil and all throughout the world for commodities are very very complicated. We have thousands of farmers in brazil that depend on us for buying their products and they have not committed illegal deforestation. We did declare a moratorium. On purchasing from illegally cleared forest lands in the amazon. We are not and will not source from farmers who clear land in protected areas. The supreme court recently threw out a suit. Claiming cargill knowingly bought cocoa from farmers that used child labor. We do not tolerate child. Labor in our supply chains. We have achieved one hundred percent. Traceability of our cocoa supply chain in ghana in ghana. And cote d'ivoire we are engaged with seventy five hundred farmers who are members of co ops. And we have surveys. That asked them the location of where they're growing their cocoa. And how many children do they have on their farm. And what are the ages their then. We use artificial intelligence to run data systems to use predictive analytics to say where in these thousands of hectares of land where cocoa has been grown in those two countries where the likelihood of child labor abuse and sustainable practice abuses the highest and we will not tolerate it. We will not purchase from any farm or source of any farm that has child labor abuses. Let's switch to ocean going freight where you operate a huge fleet when you talk to. Ceo's this summer there's a lot of concern about delays in shipping. You still have slowdowns in supply chains which include ocean transportation due to kovic and some countries either because of labor shortages or restrictions on vessels coming and going and that creates pinch points in the supply chain you also got the reemergence of international trade. The chinese have been actively restocking and purchasing agricultural products which take up ocean freight capacity. Therefore you have to wait longer to get your freight it's supply and demand driven a lot by demand for ocean freight but also slowdowns in certain areas of the world due to cove protocols. How will the food industry addressed the world's growing demand for protein particularly with concerns about greenhouse gases linked to beef production. It means we've got to develop alternative sources of protein. We are in plant protein for example pea protein. We were one of the first to the market with a plant based protein patty. We are also investors in companies that are producing cellular based protein. Cell based and plant based protein is something that is very exciting. And we're putting a lot of time in capital behind it and then you've got protein coming from fermentation so we are changing our portfolio to create alternatives and create choices for consumers for food that they see as being better for them. That's produced in more sustainable ways. That is the complement to traditional animal. Protein but emerging economy still want to consume protein in its purest form which is animal protein. That business is in going away other promising growth areas bio industrials. I'm very excited about. Using sustainable and renewable resources to produce industrial products there was a forbes report a few years ago that there were multiple billionaires from the cargo family. Are you feeling pressure to go public. Do you wanna take this opportunity to announce plans to go public today. Not today not tomorrow or anytime soon. The family owners love being private. What's the best way to feed. The world's growing population make sure that you can travel across borders don't erect trade barriers don't use food as a weapon practice comparative advantage. Use your natural resources of your region grow what is best suited for the soil the climate the access to water for example the american midwest is ideally suited for dairy. The dairy industry is less suited for california with the strains on the water supply that means politics has to be supportive of trade one of the best ways to make sure that the nine billion people in the world have access to food is to ensure that it can get from where it's best produced to where it's most needed meet shannon simmons owner rat ads ad agency shannon's biggest colline across the country and they requested an in person meeting tomorrow so she used her american express business cards app feature which her tracker business expenses from the last minute flight to the late night burrito upon arrival big meeting tuesday expenses recorded wednesday crushing every day built for business by american express. Don't do business without it. While this story is fictional the value of amex business cards real. Germs learn more at american express dot com slash business cards.

cargill american express business amer ben shapiro sanderson farms Ceo david maclennan cargill brazil mclennan mclennan geneva minnesota Ceo ghana kovic north america us
#123 - The Rise of Ecofascism, Part Two

Think: Sustainability

15:09 min | 1 year ago

#123 - The Rise of Ecofascism, Part Two

"The FIS reiging in these customers strider demonstrate how quickly how extraordinarily quickly the environment consigned signed from fairly benign to extremely aggressive. There is I think a level of rage and frustration amongst people that that for some people will draw them to more extreme action that was UTSA sociology professor Andrew Yakubovitch. You may remember Andrew from pot one of this series on Echo Fascism. If you haven't already check it out to help you understand this one in pot two will looking. And how the climate it crisis fuels ECO Fascist ideology and how some of those narratives already exist in mainstream politics. You're listening thing to think sustainability. I'm Julia Cockatiel. So lost time. We defined Eaker Kerr Fascism as the belief in racial purity as the only way to save the planet thus eaker fascists place the wellbeing of the earth nature. HR and animals at the forefront of their ideology and although eaker fascism draws on ideas dating as far back as the nineteenth century the contemporary context specifically the climate crisis has given the ideology. And you edge. Astrid is gone from Gazing at its nive home to a three years ago to the midst of a huge crisis in Tosa Faez and they'd rather than agricultural catastrophes and song. I think we're going to see them. Rise quite dramatically. These ecologically focused Sort of Fascist taught the the end of the wound is coming. We have to cybele solve taught movements. Betsy Hoffman Emeritus Professor of Development Studies at Hampshire College in Massachusetts agrees that apocalyptic narratives the articles spurred on by the climate crisis. Give Echo fascists a new sense of urgency here in the United States. There's a real tendency toward Still toward apocalyptic schism this ECO fascist view. That were you know approaching some kind of major conflagration or the end of the world old especially around climate change now in the environmental movement as we discussed in pot one anti overpopulation specifically by non non Anglo. Nonwhite immigrants is at the core of the fascist argument more extreme ideologies and philosophies will become more and more attractive partly partly because of global warming and And partly because there is a reality associated with population growth. You know that as the world's population grows its capacity to support the number of people Declines this idea of immigrants washing up on the shores of the West. I arriving to destroy new land after the degradation of their own is the common narrative for pated among ECO fascists in the climate crisis these immigrants are known as climate refugees mean. Climate change is bad enough as it is. It's urgent enough is it is is you know you look at the forest fires you can look at Melting ice you don't need to then make it look like all these poor people. In the Global South South are gonNA come across our borders you know a bleak future scenarios of millions and millions of climate refugees roaming across international borders creating havoc climate refugees or environmental migrants those who forced to abandon their homes due to environmental degradation or extreme weather events experts estimate that climate change is likely to displace between one hundred and fifty and three hundred million people by the middle of the century. But Betsy says most of the conversation related to climate refugees is alarmist and misleading are so many people really going to be flooding across borders. Orders most Migration will probably be within countries. Not accost borders. Why is migration happening? Migrations Complex questioned. There is likely to be climate related late in migrating. There already is but it's complicated there. A range of other factors involved in people's decisions to migrate behind the Fascist Lens. Those was occupying the Global South A- causing environmental degradation when in reality those living in poverty being forced to migrate because also the actions of those on the other side of the world eaker. Fascism awesome is often described as a fringe movement bubbling away in the confines of twitter or forms like Hsen but some experts via This possibility mainstream politicians will be influenced by the ideology as the right wing or conservatives deny climate Mitch Change less as that denial movement dice starts to die out which I think it is slowly. You're going to see the the right or different factions of the right scrambling to come up with their own current forms of the understanding of climate change and climate politics in the United States right-wing anti immigrant policies. Already tick many boxes. It's a very very dangerous moment. Because there's been a right wing right wing populism Use of The immigration issue to to build its power If you combine that with Echo Fascism plus climate change you can get these very very perverse outcomes ideologies this strain of Echo. Fascism never died out and you're seeing it on the rise again especially since it so much focuses on immigration I think in the context of right wing populism we should be extremely worried about this And Its influence is on green movements and parties around the same time Stanford Biology Professor Paul. Erlich published the population bomb in the US. A man by the name of John Panton from Michigan set up a network of anti immigrant groups Hinton very strategically deployed wait environmental arguments to try to take over the Sierra Club in the In the nineteen nineties and early two thousand and tried to get environmentalism analysts on board by saying immigrants you know or causing environmental destruction in the United States. They should remain in their countries where they have a smaller ecological footprint when they come to the states they consume like Americans. Therefore we don't want them there also overcrowding and polluting the landscape one of America's largest non for profit fits in viral organizations. The Sierra Club once treated immigration driven population growth as the biggest threat facing America's environment you know groups like the Federation for American Immigration Reform Zero Population Growth Center for Immigration Studies. Think tank a still Active and influential so this network is tremendously powerful. And it still is in fact you know. Trump's Stephen Miller socio associated with it Jeff sessions former attorney general trump himself federation of American immigration reform. And some this really hateful rhetoric against immigrants. You're getting comes out of the Tanta Network. Generally they haven't been using environmental arguments as much under trump because he's like launching vicious right-wing doing the tax on immigrants anyway but one can imagine and they still have on their websites have been checking it out. They still have these kinds of arguments and some all of them are to do with climate change again that people should stay in countries where they have low carbon emissions per capita instead of coming to the. US where they're going to have larger carbon footprint in the country and caused overcrowding and. Australia is no Besse the right. I think doesn't have a problem with trauma change and in fact people like like Mr Rapid others will talk about. There's always been climate change. We we have to adapt to it. We have to deal with it. We have to you know early. Spring mini ice ages. All sorts of things have happened. We go to deal with that but we shouldn't Abandoned culture in the process and and we shouldn't abandon our spice control of L. Spice because we have a quality of life at Sitra Sitra and just because we feel guilty about what's happening to them. We shouldn't commit curie so there's that argument I think on the road after the New Zealand. Christ church attack Senator for Queensland at the time Fraser adding shed a statement with the public. He said the real cause of bloodshed on New Zealand. Streets today is the Immigration Gratien program which allowed Muslim fanatics to migrate to New Zealand in the first place just a year. Prior the same senator used the Nazi term final solution in a speech calling for a plebiscite asking voters. If they wanted to end all immigration by Muslims Salem's and non English speaking people from the Third World Australia continues to host intense debate and negatively around migration John and refugees. Australia is probably the best place in the Western world to be an online racist. There's there's no accident that the guy who did the killing in Christchurch was trying to up in Australia and he got everything united here. He was so predictable. Oh so it's fairly clear. For instance is now Global Network Afar rottweiler POW antibody extinction groups with sort sort of Echo fascistic age to them the climate which enables it in social media instantaneous communications through through the Internet And the capacity of people on the Internet to communicate widely and to share ideas. is his effectively unconstrained and in Australia more than elsewhere. Australia has barely any legal structures or strategies to limit online hate speech speech and racism. The little of intolerant fishes height speech is in fact larger and wider now than it was a decade ago. And that's it's absolutely as a consequence of the of the opportunities provided by the Internet. Australia hasn't signed the International Convention on the elimination of All Forms of racial discrimination specifically Article Four which mandates the criminalization of race hate speech and racist propaganda. The liberal national governments have also made two failed attempts over twenty thirteen to twenty nine to remove section eighteen c of the Racial Discrimination Act on the grounds of free speech and where it's all happening on social media platforms like facebook and twitter. Not Enough is being done the the big gum platforms facebook in particular. Have to my mind. Some very self advancing advancing a strategies that actually gone to make much difference. The facebook in Armant Magnifies ambition action is always Post Hawk Wall different accounts get closed down at Sitra. Sitra Sitra the The range of freedom to to vilify to proselytize height and so on is on the outcome of cross. Church is essentially a ban on People who do not things running nasty videos after I do it But I think that you could do a lot more to prevent them getting to that point by treating sort of racist dodge trucks and racist mind sits I'm as a social problem to be engaged with rather than as an India in sort of individual idiosyncrasy which should be protected under some sort of rubric of Free Speech Rich So how do we rewrite these destructive and racist narratives the moment. It appears that Eko fascism is not a terribly well organized A movement but again it could become more so it could be. You know become more powerful and I think it's Be really important. Not only to have a national response to these easy go fascist ideas in terms of national environmental groups and others But also to have more international solidarity against it sharing information Russian and also keeping a watch on the far right in each of our countries and what they are up to in this regard really tracking it seriously or many people are suffering referring to right wing populist governments and the immigrant movements and also you know the failures of governments to tackle climate change one of the most those powerful things people can do. I think is share information come together and also put forward positive visions because in a certain way. This is a battle for the public imagination sustainability is made possible with the support of two AC- our radio the University of Technology Sydney and his heard around Australia on the community. Radio Network think sustainability is made in Sydney which sits on category land of the urination whose sovereignty was never ceded needed. You can subscribe to think sustainability revie. Get you'll podcasts. I'm Julia CA Castle. Thanks for your company.

Australia Sitra Sitra United States facebook professor Sierra Club twitter America Andrew Yakubovitch UTSA New Zealand John Panton Julia Cockatiel Betsy Hoffman Emeritus Profess University of Technology Sydne Julia CA Castle Betsy
CS 348: Blood Red Lines

Problematic Premium Feed

1:40:17 hr | 7 months ago

CS 348: Blood Red Lines

"Hey how's it going champagne sharks. Hope everyone's doing well just want to Do some quick house cleaning that people. No good champagne sharks dot com and you get access to all the links related to champagne sharks so instead of asking us with. The youtube is located where the patriots located with merchandise is located. You can go there and find it all and you can find where we are social media our products all that stuff also in addition to the existing patron benefits which includes discord server. Book club night movie night. Discussions shown those newsletter and most importantly bonus episodes were also giving people invites to the new voice social media networking club clubhouse so right now. It's closed off in beta testing a yet to be a iphone member. But if you join patriot. John and through patriarch joined the discord. You will be able to get a clubhouse invites and the reason why we want people to get those clubhouse invites us because we're doing a lot of stuff with the creators and the podcast fans and he needs to get invited to take part of that including a new weekly creator and fans show that we've started over there. Will you get to interact with us and with each other so you become a patron for five dollars a month at patriot dot com reports last champagne sharks or without further ado. Here is the episode. Take care hey. How's it going. We have brendan o'connor with us today. And he's the author of a book called blood red blood red lines and i wanted to give them a chance to introduce himself and tell us everything we need to know about him and the book the full name bread lines how native ism feels right. And if you could just Tell the people who you are and where to find you and why they should care book. Sure thanks thanks for having me on My name is brendan a freelance journalists. Based in vi- push the author of lines. Native is he feels the right out from haymarket Right now I wouldn't need to know about. You can find me on. Twitter at at underscore brendan with g. I have been covering covering the far-right covering capitalism covering the disintegration of empire For for a while now. This is my first book and it. It focuses on the right but hopefully in a way that Absolutely i'm trying to bring a different kind of blend of reporting and analysis and socialist perspective to these questions that you might not get another pencil. The best way i could describe. This book is the but this is a complimentary way. The the it's always sunny mean where charlie has the conspiracy board and it would be talking about all those papers on the board. I sure do if that was true. Like like a charter board like that. Except when you research everything it's all it's all true and is actually over here a structure. That's what it felt like. There were a lot of things. I did not realize had connections to each other like carnegie mellon carnegie. Mellon's family those weird siblings. I mean it's this would be really interesting kind of movie a documentary or something like this interesting figures in here carnegie mellon's family these two weird siblings who grew up in are really dysfunctional household. The moment the melon people are siblings. Right i'm gonna make sure that this case. Yeah brother and sister. Yeah yeah yeah. And then there was a connection with the There was a connection with margaret sanger and planned parenthood and the nefarious kind of white nationalist. Re-genesis there and it's person is basically like you know what the coke brothers or peter the'll with immigration issues and then peter thiel himself ends up in the booklet. It's an interest. It's very interest interweaving of different people interest throughout history that at previously kind of thought of as just kind of independent but vaguely interrelated forcing it. All just kind of like anti immigration stuff. But i did not realize was actually a very coordinated thing that allow these people eventually had a direct line into Trump like what i thought was going to happen. Was i tell you going to introduce these people ernie on and then say like you know. Later on these people took up the mantle and district took a demand but like the very first people. You introduce the tha the tencent family. The book ends in what the guy dies in two thousand nineteen. These people are active. Some these people active all the way into the trump era. It's a fascinating read. Yeah i mean. I push it but but connection to the to the always because i do sort of feel sometimes feel like charlie In the work. That i do and i have to careful not to get too conspiratorial bit. Sometimes it does feel like you know when you're trying to do a kind of a kind of analysis of the machinations of the individuals within the capitalist class and they're in like the operatives in the people that carry out their their political projects it can. sometimes you'll like you're drawing red string from one disparate thing to another But you're right. You know this. This is a what. I hope to show in in this book. Is that a lot of what took place during the trump administration and Even now the trump is out of office but i think will continue to see is the nation of not just sort of broad historical trends of the various crises of capitalism But you know there are particular. Concerted efforts Within the republican party jason to it. We're actually parts of parts of the ruling class are in conflict with each other. Which is which is part of why i think things feel so so strange right now but yet so i am. I'm glad that glad that book was illuminating in my for you. It's very much a story in the traditional sense. Like like it's it's very much a you know a research piece with a lot of Discussion history in davidson and figures. But it's also very much just like an interesting ends on samba story. I think it's safe to say in this book. The main characters the main drew lines are the tencent family particularly John danton who would would that be fair to say. He's kind of like the main character like like the spine of of all this. Yeah i mean he is he is i think he's you know he's a plays a really important role and just to quickly give of food. Tanzania's is he from underactive. He's kind of nobody he's laying guy he's just like a doctor. Small town in michigan But what he did. The course of his life The really had to kind of outsize impact. He came up through. The conservationists in environment was movements of the sixties and seventies and through that movement was connected with some really wealthy are full people namely cordelia escaped. May whose family we talked about earlier and with her financial backing created this network of think tanks nonprofits concentrated in dc but really all over the country that have slowly but steadily been working their way. From the periphery of the republican party to the core. And have you know the. The project is to translate The longstanding vulgar anti immigrant sentiment. That has Ebbed and flowed through history diet states into a pseudo intellectual policy driven framework. That was pretty much wholesale adopted By the trump administration there are people from the think tanks nonprofits installed as political appointees in. I think almost almost every federal agency that touched immigration in any way And people like stephen miller and jeff sessions before. He lost his job Had had close ties to these organizations as well and so talented You know. I do try to tell canton story. And a big part of the book is focused on him as an individual partly. That's for the pragmatic reasons that i had access to is archives. he. He was a a something of a megalomaniac. Ernie maniac insofar as he rigorously documented almost everything that he did in almost every thought that he had And so that gave a pretty clear window into the ideas that are driving this political project and so good portion of the book focuses on ham. But you know it's not the story of any one person Because tanta like the rest of us are sort of working within the historical immaterial conditions that we find ourselves in. Which are you know that that's just another the way that try to write the book stat. That's another part of the story of how the things that he did interacted with other forces at play It was like I don't think if i remember right there was anything that really kinda showed panton directly working for trump at any point but they ten network of organizations and you know the whole portfolio sub-organizations that basically a ton of people trump's organization worked for or that trump was signing stuff for it stephen miller but also kellyanne conway and i was very surprised that the direct connection that kellyanne conway like worked for years so One of their affiliated organizations like. It wasn't just. She was reading their paperwork. And that was it like there was a lot of active active stuff going on and what was interesting about about it. And he's a question that i have for you that i always wonder about out. I had a vague idea about but you kinda made clear with how they use a lot of other causes. Kinda smuggled in their white nationalist anti immigration Stuff so like you said there was a. It was an environmentalist. Less conference conservationists Population control was one of the Cover when come from houses and but it was really more about population control of certain people and it is like you know planned. Parenthood people think of as kind of feminist organization. That's that's you know in it just to because he cares about all women of all races but when read the history regardless of where you think it's at now in its inception was very much about Racial racial ethnic eugenics To what degree the tensions and some of these other people were sincerely into late the environment or population control divorced from The racism or is it like hopelessly intertwined late degree to which they care about the environment if at all through the prism of The environment because some of the people who are sincere environmentalists. You know talk about how they couldn't take him to kicked him out. Because i think credit after you after you heard wanna go home and take a shower. No i think. I think that's a really good question. I think the answer is that Canton and cornelius may and some of the people that they were associated with and these institutions with i think they were true believers in the array of causes a dedicated themselves to. I think that danton truly believed that the immigration of non white people in the immigration of people which is really immigration of not madly. When he talks about gnashing Is really talking about the movement of non white people to the united states. I think that he really believes that. This was a threat to the The the natural beauty in wilderness of United states I don't think that that was a limit. Ask let me ask you this. This was the able to separate it in any way. It seems from the racial immigration stuff like for example if there was a day for just watering trees or something and do nothing. You tired to immigrants. That day would is like this picture of this guy's eyes glazing over anytime at the environmentalist meeting where did not tying it into immigrants. I guess my like like even even if he does believe in the environment. It's hard for him to think of any solution or whatever that doesn't tied into Immigration and non white people. Because he pretty much one track mind yet. So yeah you're absolutely right. And i think that that is something. That's something that developed over the course of like Pretty quickly like the release earned mid-seventies like by the mid seventies. He who had been very involved in the environmentalist movement in conservationist movement was increasingly illusion. Because he couldn't get anybody to talk explicitly or openly about his ideas. About how how this related. How how the stuff related to mass migration Which is i think. His his frustration in Is kind of interesting. Insofar as his ideas were not completely Outside of the mainstream. At the time. Like i could anxiety about population control the carrying capacity of the planet were. We're very. we're very mainstream on in the early seventies and you know and like you said before you know nativist ages have long been Trez in us political discourse but increasingly you know he he was like i said a disillusioned with the direction that the broader environmentalist movement was going in And became convinced that this particular idea that he had about the threat of mass in a sham was a kind of central idea that he organized the rest of his political life around. Yeah i mean that. There's a book by paul erlich. I remember The population that was very much a bestseller a bestseller at the time. So it was. It was pretty. It was pretty mainstream. But i was surprised to see that Paul erlich was on a connection tannin to that that tension that tension was Part of part of his his movement zero population growth that was paul ernest movement right. Yeah i believe so And part of part of what. I think the research that i did show is that this. The the white nationalist valence to be anxiety about controlling population. Growth is not necessarily something that tin like introduced to this idea that erlich himself was from from from the junk Sympathetic were interested in this kind of interpretation of the problems the so-called problems that that he was describing It's not as though santon introduced some kind of mutant version of a that that the This was an racialized anxiety To begin with yeah interesting. Interesting passage weather weather weather. What panton believed was a much stronger version than what erlich believe or where he was. Just too explicit about it either way. There was a discomfort or attention and you put tencent would try and fail to push z p. That's zero population growth to take more hardline anti immigration position. The organization's leadership rejected effort. A former staffer said because quote there were uneasy about getting into the city. They didn't want to be called racist. Which seems more like they used to to actually be called more than dame maybe weren't racist. Which kind of reminds me of the never trumpers today. Were people say you don't really have any problem with a lot of what they believe is like The tone and ten and his allies. They said quote talking very legitimate about protecting our border and saving the nation's resources and so on but the trouble is after you've heard them you want to go home and take a shower unquote and says towns. Frustration with environmentalists queasy response to his ideas about immigration led him to start his own his own movement. And from there you kind of go into could dealey escape. May and i was wondering if you could talk about that moment where he breaks from zero population growth in connects with critically escape main. Who could heal escaped me is. Yeah so credit escape may is she's a woman who was in an heiress to the Fortune gives are very wealthy family. That are sort of a branch of the even wealthier mellon family. There's sort of altogether american capitalist aristocracy Tinton in cornelius gave nee met through one or another of these conservationist organizations and shared and analysis shared a shared anxieties about the what they saw as the deficiency of the environmentalist and conservationist movements to take up the nativist. 'cause to be in their estimation be honest about the pressures that mass immigration was putting on on the environment and so it was that relationship that enabled canton to start his own organizations to start founding and cultivating these institutions. Which may she was. Not the only funder There were a variety of other folks that they knew that she connected him with that he courted courted Relationships that cultivated over the course of the eighties nineties and really up until and after her death. cornelius me was the was the primary funder of these organizations. All of which have sort of innocuous sounding names like federation for american immigration reform center for immigration studies but which have had a very insidious effect on our politics insofar as kind of formalize A latent white nationalist worldview And may his his correspondence with canton's correspondence with scape may was able to read through in quote at length in the book in show how he played on her fears about Basically like kind of racial displacement which was a concern that she shared a lot of kind of far right intellectuals of the time the time being the late seventies eighties and still today that are kind of given different names Whether it's the great replacement or white genocide these are kind of the most extreme like explicit versions of what i think is like a deep deep racial anxiety about demographic change and the kind of fracturing of the fracturing but the the fear that drives the maintenance of white supremacy me was completely embedded in best And in canton's letters to her you can kind of see him playing on her fears in order to get her money to keep these organizations going. Because like i said for a long time they were sort of peripheral to republican party politics. And there's a couple of reasons for that. I think the primary reason was that scape may tanta and others in their cohort were supporters of planned parenthood. Unlike you know the republican party that came to be dominated by the christian right But then you know in time that history. It's been kind of been as stanton got older. And got out of politics may got older and died in the early two thousands But their relationship and their friendship. They're working. They're working together. Is what enabled this network kind of weather. The weather the economic pressures of meeting money to survive and then wait for the opportunity that the trump campaign in two thousand eighteen hundred sixteen and the station Presented we were just join our co host mareo. Hey everybody it's mario. You can catch me on twitter at md meal seventy nine. How's everybody how you doing britain. Mary how are you good to join us. You reminded me of in a weird way The movie like there will be blood. You know how that guy kind of goes through various decades and he's always there. That's how i felt about the stance in guy but kind of a kind of a darker version. You know where it has got Hanging on this guy kind of has his finger in so many different groups but basically with this environment environmentalist movement the zero population growth movement in the seventies. It was this big bestseller called the population bomb. This guy was around with that but a lot of it. planned parenthood and different people throughout the Decades this guy was kind of floating. Through the periphery Either helping solicit money to fund. Different people bring people into the fold and a lot of things that i thought were just kind of very independent things that just happen to be talking about the same stuff or kind of was in the. In the periphery of it was actually very coordinated. Like these people. I think safe to say i think And it's not just your book but other books That are kind of similar to this. That the right wing gets the reaction right gets very underestimated for its level of grassroots organization. People think of the word grassroots they think of it as very much in know a left wing or a hippie nethon berries thing but i think in some ways i'm better than liberals i think These guys are very good at at grass roots from the ground up organizing fundraising This guy went. Also you say ospel. They're very good at associating. A mental social mean with just a single word right so they can say. This guy is a socialist than it. Drums up all kinds of imagery of a socialist society people instantly think of cuba or something like that. You know what. I'm saying like just use the word and otherwise well-meaning thoughtful policies and people when they hear that all of a sudden it's like oh no you're right. I can't do this. You know no no matter no healthcare for all because we'll be like You know some third world communist country you know as well as of yet one point was cuba neighboring venezuela like the good a euphemism edition to scare words that you say they're good at one or two or three word euphemisms themselves so one day. It's the great replacement didn't rebranded as white genocide One day population control. Now today. it's in back. It's kind of interesting because sometimes things go on both sides of the equation like for example one day population control is good because it's about You know stopping saving resources. So they go into environmentalism then. Another time they used properties controls the bad thing by claiming that White people are being knicks. Yeah exactly why. People are being encouraged not to have kids and like wait a minute but population control was a good thing you know. But why genocide is a problem that Suddenly there are we talking about populations. There is not good for the gander. That their model not of euphemisms and moving targets. I think so one guy in family that we were saying is kind of the through line throughout this is the tintin's and the main guy is what's his first name. What's his first name again. as a gun drawn santon. Yeah he just died in two thousand nineteen. I thought he was only gonna be there for like the first twenty years in on the book and then but this guy was involved all the way up until Trump yeah so deputies speed to to where we where we are awry. Let's do it. Yeah yeah but i i was we talk about like Black lives matter and the movement for black lives and how so many umbrella organizations and changed names of stopping all under a ford foundation opened foundation soro's and different things and you have to is very hard to keep track of things but you realize how things tied together and this is very much a reactionary version of that lake. There's a group called. pf i are. I didn't realize that. Pfi are was founded by legal person. Who worked for fair and you know it was. It was on the board of that. This is a everything kinda keeps leading back to the same people the the heritage not the heritage foundation. I'm thinking not the pioneer fund. Yeah ends up being this book and has a very Clear connection to these people and the one thing that i found pretty interesting brandon and i didn't realize how oldest string the string of thing was but one of the things that brendan mentions is that they talk about one thing we're going to do is bring up. How this immigration hurts Native born black people etc like concern. Trolling acting like. Hey when we can win people over by You know telling them that. This is going to hurt native born people but also specifically native lack people which You know whether there is some evidence for that or not that you know under immigration might hurt We'll call it black people. The most these people are still working alongside active white nationalist who want to like Sterilized or eliminate black people. So you know which one is it is it. Would you all your when mike lake regardless of how you feel about it. These people clearly are insincere about helping helping black people. If they're in bed with all these. Like open the anti-black. Yeah i mean i think one of the things to that's important to remember and take into account is that they are these. These people who bill try anything like they will experiment and adjust their tactics and their strategies and if they think that there might be some short medium or long-term benefit to introducing into their messaging. Oh you know this is you know we. We want to reduce immigration levels. Because we think that we can argue that it'll be good for black americans Than they think that you know there might be some kind of level of support that they can that they can gain from that They'll try it. They will they frequently return to the frame. The framing that you know this is a you know that this is a pro worker Appro worker political agenda. But very over. Here you know the thing that kind of gives gives away gives away. The lie of that is that you know if they were serious about being per worker they wouldn't be You know trying to. They wouldn't prioritize trying to Shut out the millions of undocumented workers that already live here they would be supporting a legal framework that allows undocumented workers to organize fight for their rights and fight for better wages and better working conditions along with citizen workers completely. It's it is very disingenuous yet. They never see. It seems to be active in the labor movement. Even for you know like like the so anti-socialists you know like i never really see them involving just straight up or anything make the solution to everything is just keep keep Immigrants out and then everything's gonna fix off you know and then you know like i said meanwhile they keep closing down factories and all across the country. Factories are leaving the country that do business and other places and then in a lot of these countries especially like these places in middle america. You know there's no work in a lot of these towns that you know used to have worked there and even when you talk against free trade and stuff They don't really have anything to kind of both. You know the like. I remember trump was talking against a free trade but Talking about anything to bolster what's Remains after stop. The free trade is kind of like. Hey he just stopped a free-trade magically trickle down to the worker but it's still automation there's still a host of other Factors that still will prevent like full employment but the never seems to be talk. Talk about that. it's like it's like brennan. Says they will try anything even a superficial pro blackness. You know brennan talks about for example how you know people people coming back from the vietnam. War and veterans are kind of being Post traumatic stress disorder not integrating back into society. Well and everything and even jumped into into that and and use disaffectation of vietnam. War veterans And jump to that movement for example. But they really do try to read. Do try everything. It's it's it's very very interesting. And i was doing a lot of googling as i was reading the book just to because different groups came to mind and in addition to rebranding terms and rebranding Themselves they had different names for organizations. So this one. Pfi firearm. that i had heard about I google and sure enough. Everything has one a two degrees of separation from tinton and fair but in addition to this web of stuff. That sounds sewn. The ferrier's there's this weird mundane this to the picture that brennan paints of him like basically this guy's always trying to Three people including the old ladies out for money. That he's he's very mundane crass a very racist old ladies by racist very wealthy old ladies but if we could just grab the kind of always writing letters and he's always like telling people on the deathbed you're not be great things if you leave us a lot of money like the guy that's gaming if you could talk about that. Yeah yeah sure is so he Yeah tannin's like great skill to the extent they had one was Separating Scared racist rich people from their money and giving it to him and i think i think the the one that you the particular Correspondence that you are referring to He was talking to a guy who as i recall was a i. Think the grandson of one of the major funders of the pioneer on And in one of his lead like this guy he's like he's getting on in years and in one of his letters john danton like look like you're getting old your ancestor eagled left all this money to this. Very influential eugenicist funding mechanism. And you know has this. Has this like those legacy of this contribution to the eugenicist movement and like how great is that Don't you want to do something like that and leave your money to me and my nativist movement Who you know. And by the way you know. The pioneer fund was very generous over the years to hinton's organizations and gave them millions of dollars. And actually you know. A huge chunk of archives are still eat he donated all of his art is to the librarian of today And i think thirds of it is open to the public. Which is how i was able to to come through them But there are reams and reams and reams of of documents that are sealed for another couple of decades. And they all are but they've been categories like the librarians find gone through them already and it's so what public is kind of like what the label is on and it's just all his correspondence documents regarding his relationship with the pioneer fund. We won't be able to see what's in those for for a long time but the nativist movement and the eugenicist movement are functionally one in the same and yeah so he you know he was trying to trying to sweet. Talk this guy into leaving all of his all of his money to Detention as as an inch To to build up his legacy like his ancestor in wild. We're on the team. Before i was going to talk to was actually go. Direct this at at you you have. I think along with me have always been looking at their racer nike stuff and that movement and stuff like that and i was gonna tell you. Mario that the pioneer fund. I don't know if you Know much about them. But i'm pretty sure that based on the stuff that i know we've read independently. I'm sure you've heard of some like the main studies that they've Funded but do not disgrace an iq. People always talk about the the twin studies. The twins raised apart. Yeah via raised. Yeah had approved how that proves You know that that. I q is genetic and race-based they. The the pioneer funds are the people who funded those studies. The minnesota twin family study in texas adoption project studies. They are very known for making supposedly innocuous studies that the racist always used. So that when you see racist come to you and say well this Twin study shows that you know. I q is genetic. Look at these twins or whatever and they don't tell you that hey are. People are white nationalist organization. The pioneer funds kinda so-called think tank Funded and create the study. They're all into Making these white nationalist studies. So i just wanted to give you background that you might be interested in about the pioneer fund. Gray in along those lines Just a bit of clarification because you know we always like to try to assume that we have an educated audience but also maybe someone who's just now coming into these terms so can you guys define what you mean by native ism short I i can. I can give my definition. Trevor do you want to go to the definition on on a please please give i. It's a good question. It is important to define our terms. I think that the way that i think about native as As particularly racist form of anti immigrant sorry particularly militant form of racist anti immigrant politics that is organized around the principle of a like racialized national identity and so that any Any immigration or the you know the presence of people who are not already absorbed into that national identity it poses an existential threat and kind of There's this idea that like That identity is going to be deluded Or or sort of obscured and in the united states you know this has a particular salience and cuts to the the click of deep historical memories and and and sort of Trends insofar as you know. This is a a a settler colonial nation. This is a a a post slave nation where the creation of the formation of white supremacy and the maintenance of white supremacy is like integral to the very idea of nationhood national identity. Nationalism nativist they add religion into that as well. This is a christian nation. That's bad that's that's definitely that's definitely Part of this history. It is interesting that canton they bring that out. Because hampton and scape name at least in my understanding were not particularly religious that that was not a major factor in their in their political Very concerned about you know like western civilization time right. Chris like christianity. The broadest civilizational sense. Yet i believe that was always code. That and and and that's all of those guys at the top of that these beings man. I think something to in there too. I think that for some of these people. Christianity is of christianity culture more than a religion specifically believe so. I think our christian as an oak. Christianity is is a is a great parables. great sign of western bid treated as a western accomplishment. Same way to call democracy or other great man. I'm gonna have to keep that in mind. Lets you said it more. They treated more as like a cultural confrontation. Okay something that they've really like spiritual earnestly believe some of these people. Because i mean i'm saying from seeing how they talk about it or whatever the bring up great things that western civilization which is a code for neck white european people. Did they'll bring up that Something interesting to. I would say what you bring the the Religion question brennan's book It talks about some people who are like anti-semitic in the movement but also some people who are actually that jewish and like stephen miller is like Jewish so some people. I think i think that's why some people will say judeo christian instead of Christian because when you phrased that way you can bring jewish people into the dennis prager is known for that Incorporating that i don't know if you guys are familiar with who that is. I'm sure you've heard the name before. But he He uses that phrase a lot. He he'd he goes away. You cut off for a second for me. I don't know if you cut off for carolina. Yeah bet you're right now say. Dennis prager is well known for the judeo-christian ethic that he talks about On his broadcast and he he's jewish. He was well out of his way to make emphasis of that point. So you know that feeds right into what you were saying about being a cultural thing. As a matter of fact. I think he talks about it. More along the lines of cultural phenomenon as opposed to you. Know a type of spirituality here too seriously you know at least. That's how i hear when i used to listen to that. Show nothing good for recruiting people who might not be into religion as well to frame it way without losing a religious people at the same time. Dealer peterson comes to when you talk about that kind of thing. I think also that you know like if he's sort of take a step back and realized that this you know this idea of like judeo christian civilization which as you say it's like it's really a cultural idea it's like it does not really include like You know black. Southern christians were. I never like catholics athletes from rural Like this is. This is not here talking about this specific very specific bread of Judeo-christianity that they're talking about. That's an excellent point but not at the situation the weaponize these people even the Massacre want some of these people will use mexican conservatives you know as you know mascot so us back back conservatives or whatever you know but but you could tell there's nothing sincere about it and that they would turn on them in in a second When when convenient especially when you look at some of the other people these people are in are in bed with ed. Yeah i mean the web of stuff was so crazy. 'cause i'm very into reading about the pioneer fund and stuff and had no idea that such direct ties to Fair which. I didn't know it is tied to white white nationalism. Even though i knew a lot of times our goals the goals aligned united know that that's an active connection connections to that. Oh yeah yeah. also Pioneer for and had a lot to do with the bell curve the bell curve as well Yeah but give me an idea of how innocuous this stuff can be or how can it can pop up right. We had a guest a couple of weeks ago and a lot of people thought. Like you know i Took a lot of airtime for the guests. Because i kind of had to jump in because the guests was talking about stuff was the leftist Guest name garrison lovely and he brought up very You know inaccuracy innocently about this Twin studies and whatever relations something else and add to jump in there and say those twin studies are funded by the worst people on unearth. You have no idea. I've run into a lot and to give him a quick History but also this all like faulty sign's behind them that you know it's not just i hurt feelings or whatever it's a lot of Forty signs that has been disproven. A lot of these people are very good at inventing mundane things that i feel like i wish. A lot of left and liberal organizers are better at and one of them is marketing their ideas and like non during them into a powder form for the mainstream. So you meet a lot of people who talk about these Twin studies in other things that the person might be against the bell curve. The bell curve is kind of more explicit and exposes racist but they might casually bang studies. Things or other things at the pioneer fund has gone into the mainstream. And you know taking their fingerprints offer white nationalist and also i wanted to point out as well. There's some other things that fit under. Did into that umbrella as well. They go back even further than things like the twin studies in. That's this idea. For example. How infiltrates the medical field. The idea that Black people are able to Endure more pain does need less amounts of Pain medication and things like bad. So that's what's so prevalent that it was actually even still believed by new medical students. People are just getting into medical school and things like that. They actually still held a lot of those beliefs. So it kinda like this. It's somehow turn to like this common knowledge. That black people can endure more pain. And so we don't need as much you know vicadin or whatever Post op medication. That you need to manage pain. We don't need as much as everybody else. Does you know what i'm saying. So those types of ideas infiltrate man. You have to always be on the lookout for stuff like that. I think there's also something to be said about the like the people on the far right who are pursuing Bill representing a far right political projects when they produce these like scientific studies were policy papers. Or what have you can give the formal official language. They're really. They're not necessarily like introducing a new idea or a new narrative. People what they're doing is giving justification or a language to something that a lot of people in this country either already believe with or familiar to them like the idea of being the idea. The idea in the discourse of native ism is something that is already present in this sort of subterranean way in american political discourse whereas on the left like we have a lot farther to go in in kind of like introducing the is the guts like another world is possible like we're asking people to imagine something that has never been done before whereas the advantage right has is that they are able to mobilise like you know just like is in the end like the reactionary traditionalist ideas That are that are that are at their core Represses in exploitative and oppressive but are at the very least like they're able to do it in a in a narrative a story that people can feel familiar with i forget the phrasing or the metaphor simile but What is it called when you like. Oh salty earth. I feel like They had a big head. Start insulting the earth Ideas that radicals and left left. This have the same time. I think they're very much the devil you know for a lot of people like a lot of people at least whether it's been good to them abacha them understands. What a capitalist society looks like. You know you know that's that. Yeah you and i have had these conversations a million times. You know that you know what i'm talking about like we've had these conversations so much about how we know what or at least was passed office capitalism. We know exactly what that looks like. And then the disadvantage that Those of us who are more on the left have is that oftentimes is very difficult to point to an example of you know what our ideal situation will be because it really doesn't exist in a lot of forms you know what i'm saying because there's always this more. I guess you could say demonstrative liberty negative aspects of some of that stuff you know when they point to things like venezuela cuba etcetera etcetera. But what they don't tell you. Is that a lot of that stuff is caused by outside interference and sabotage a so. That's deeper than than you know. We're going to have time for here but you know i totally agree with like for cuba's an example this horrible socialist country. This is with socialism gets you but then you don't talk about economic embargoes you don't talk about. Not being able to train with other countries like the also. We'll talk you. Don't talk about the good things that happened. So for example Everyone's able to get. The healthcare and cuba was able to send doctors to other countries to Help with their covert stuff because you know so. Many doctors and that gets very underplayed so ambitious. You're hiding how the us responsible for the bad things that happen. Outside forces are responsible they also make sure to under report. Any positive aspects ran. Come out of any of this. Great point grey port. I think that's like part of the part of what i talk about in. The book is the context that a lot of this like the the anti-immigrant is happening in and big part. You know part of the part of neoliberalism in addition to the kind of economic restructuring of the seventies eighties in the political regimes that were inaugurated by reagan and thatcher Like the expansion of the police stayed of. Mass incarceration is that. There's a kind of discursive shift neoliberal. Capitalism is very good making it impossible to conceive of any other way of living in a way that earlier forms of capitalism were less good at doing And that seems to be part of what's like shaking loose in the past. Couple of years is beginning to be able to imagine alternatives But that's you know that's conversely that's part of the left project is to is to push people beyond like just imagining it but actually starting to move towards it. I think that started with the With the bailouts happened in two thousand eight once people saw that a lot of people that were even more you know along the lines of moderate to write once they saw how the country was willing to do corporate welfare on a massive scale like that a lot of myself included said to hell with that then seeing about a market decided by now that that all had went out of the window when you saw that expensive demonstrative fashion. You know what. I'm saying. So when i left that use that as exhibit a in any conversation that they have when it comes to things like this and something that really gets me upset right is lot of people in the left sometimes can be pedants and be very pedantic about stuff so bernie sanders said once We said several times he goes This country that Is against socialism for people but is okay with socialism for the rich and he brought about bailouts. The stuff like that and what's funny is back in the day when i used to lean more. Right you know is to believe in that type of Pro black form of conservatism. Like not that current. Candace owens strain but Marin i've talked about how these market is kind of pro version of conservatives in Back in the two thousands. That was one of the arguments that really kind of shook me. Shook me up Similar to like what you were talking about the bailouts phrase like that it was very effective and when bernie sanders said it. I saw all these people on twitter. Saying oh i hate this phrasing because actually schilling very called only expert good just switched to get you know explain to the people the nuances of why. That's technically Naturally but i think these people don't have that problem they just. They'll say whatever they have to do they will any definition. they have to be with. You know they will bring up a black workers and act like they're they care about them they'll bring up anything. I think that's one big thing that can be learned from. These people have to get the job done. Fell called out here with a make. Your point is well taken. What thing about this book book mario is. You can read it like in a weekend like like what did i like about. It is that there's someone called david garrow and this another guy. His name is karl rove he writes those Maschler the senate books whatever or perlstein who write these really really super exhaustive down into the weeds. Weeds type books about this book is it's kind of like a skeleton that ties together which stays light information because it's not but it doesn't really go super super into the weeds. But it gives you a nice framework where there's a lot of these things i knew about separately and maybe like a deeper dive into but i never really got a picture. How all inter relates. But the last third of the book is resources and books that you can go into if you wanna do a deeper dive into any particular or any particular subset of any of this stuff. So within the text of the main book and also in the final resources section it's It gives you all the information you need. If you really want to deep dive into for example the tucker books on the pioneer fund. I had read those previously. Any mentioned is there any mentions the pioneer fund. But it gives you enough of a picture of all the disparate parts of this. You know again idea. What a big multi armed but without Killing you with details just pointing you where you have to go. And i was talking about there before we started recording but i wanted to let people at home kind of getting idea of what you just book and what i think is a big strength of it because i wasn't really a question but statement is yeah yeah but The i was crazy to me. Was that one thing. One thing i think is that. I don't think it's crazy to worry about open borders and you know how it's going how it's going to work as in There have been studies by some some people who are not affiliated with these people but You know like black academics that you talk about how with immigrant unskilled immigration that cetera. That the black. The native born black workforce absorb disproportionate amount of the brunt of some of it and give plausible arguments. I don't know all the counter arguments. Whatever but i think. It's kind of a plausible thing to talk about at least if you want to Assuage suedes people That this is going to be safe but the problem. That i kind of realized when i was reading this book is that it's very hard to have a good faith approach to this stuff because it seems like anywhere you turn. Do you have to get embedded right nationalist people and that's that's something i wanted to Kind of talk about like. Is there a space to have a good faith discussion in this rena when these people have ceded. Orono got their hooks into every single Portion of this you know like they've pretty much dominated. The research dominated discourse if you found in good faith Discussion of this kind of stuff anywhere. There's some really good question. i mean. The is yeah like on on on the right amongst conservatives and even liberals you have and may when in my opinion is really just variations on the same. Kind of argument is like you know Which is like always presupposing like a hard binary between citizens and non-citizens americans and non americans And and whether whether you're a liberal or or a fire at fireeye reactionary kind of operating within that framework and then on the left you know there are some people that are offering more nuanced way of thinking about it but in most cases i think we find ourselves falling into and i have done this myself. i'm not. I'm not exempt from from this. We ended up falling into kind of sloganeering And standing behind a leading having a hard conversation about president conditions by focusing on you know the usual that we are working towards. Which is you know at least for a lot of people and left A world without a world without borders. But that you know that's not that's not like a policy framework that in be applied But i do think that go ahead. I thought you thought you were done using. I do think so so. Please finish in say. Yeah i was. I was just gonna say i think that like kind of like saying before that like if we are like if we are serious about applying like looking at the way that the Like the the working class in the united states but really across north america and around the world is the way that it is The management of labor and the way that labor is exploited. We have to think about migrant labor and we have to think about the role of borders and immigration enforcement and in the in the us pacific -ly migrant labor and undocumented migrant labor in particular plays a really critical role shinning of st economy already. And so it seems to me that like you know it. Yeah if we just if we just jump to like okay we just need to demilitarise. The border decriminalized all border crossings and just never wants to come and go ken. That's never going like. That's just not a realistic thing to organize for under the aren't on current political terrain. But i think that we can think of like what are the kinds of. What kinds of labor organizing can we orient ourselves around that are oriented towards bringing citizen and non-citizen workers together about building power for undocumented workers in the industries where they are highly concentrated in like agriculture like direction like service industries And kind of using that as our starting point to build towards a just and equitable way of thinking about immigration that creates a livable existence. Go for all workers their respective their of their citizenship status. Because you're right. People do have legitimate concerns that are not necessarily driven by rachel anxiety like fear of white genocide. that's not the only reason to be worried about concrete. I'll give is that when i'm bernie. Sanders said some stuff about you know like for immigration and wants to be fair to immigrants but he also wants to be sure that there to protect You know workers in america and that we keep that in mind too when a lot of people in the left got very upset with him but then Energy and legal rights this thing like the left case for You know Immigration control of whatever. And you know i read. It was like oh okay well. There's some interesting points brought here. I don't know if i support the whole thing but This interesting conversation to be to be had here but then The next week she goes on tucker carlson and a toll turned up. I was like okay if this is what we're gonna have to do to have this conversation. I'm not. I'm not interested. You know what i mean. And and i just feel like all roads always end up leading There which kind of frustrates weeded. There's no place to have a kind of good faith conversation about Any of this because it seems like People always sooner or later end up getting their research from these people or trying to form some kind of loose coalition with sooner or later the worst people on earth in the in my books also that you know something that on the left we have to get better at doing is being careful to remember that you know. I think as much as we defend the if people's right to the freedom of movement that also has to be coupled with the right to have the freedom to stay Which is actually something. Like which is something that i believe. The the deputy says From a very very early on were at critique they articulated which is that you know. People are displaced across the global south by imperialism by climate crisis. Which is caused by By droughts and flooding and all of these things that are driven by the political and economic forces of the global north gabler displays given the choice. Most people would probably just would prefer to stay with you. Know in their in their homes where their families are grew up like. And so this conversation. Part of the reason why you know the right. And people like tucker. Carlson are always so happy to bring on You know to hear from leftists that are willing to entertain kind of immigration restriction. Est ideas is will the condition. They're they're. they're happy to do that. So long as you're not also going to talk about Imperialism and thank you that you can't even have that conversation in good faith without discussing imperialism and the things that that you know the west dust to keep certain countries in in a in a state of economic deprivation to where people feel like they have no choice but to leave and go seek You know greener pastures elsewhere. You know so you create the problem that you complain about and you don't want any real genuine solutions. It's is unbelievable to me that a great a great example to is a great example to is that Jewelry door recent controversy where he came out and said. Hey guys i talked to a big lou boy and guess what there are pro environment and pro. This trying to say that these guys could be a good allied allied to the left. But basically he took him at face value as to what they said they were and it reminded me of like reading this book about how these people have smuggled themselves into like environmental movements into Population control movements into superficially labor focused Moomins or whatever. And i. I was just so shocked like the the night. Naievety of what jimmy door was saying tweet. People don't take into consideration that you have on both ends of both extreme ends of the aisle right and left you're gonna have overlap in certain general ideas right so for example. The burglar boys are in favor of eliminating the current system that we have right now as well at least in their their widely known stated goals. The problem is they have totally different end. Game in mind than leftists may have in dismantling capitalism in the way that the us government operates right now dismantling imperialism things like that. Their goal is a hell of a lot different. A lot of people fall into that trap to like for example. The like someone because they're against You know restricting access to guns but You might want to do it to protect to be perhaps armed self defense. You know as a black person because they want start a race war and exactly exac- a great example in now see now you got me feeling called out now. I feel called out a little bit because that's one of my struggles is internally you know no no but I've seen you call name. Name name names. Because i don't want to have proved that these people have ties with white nationalist but we talked about people that we said at least carelessly seem to be promoting the wrong kind of program people. Yeah yeh particularly because it's never been proven that they advertise to what. I don't wanna sixteenth libraries. But you do you think. Do you think that there's something there's something there's this in safar as like. We're all living through the same crisis right. And so to a certain extent the people who are looking for ways to respond to that crisis and create something different there's going to be a formal similarity in that if you're not careful and if you're sort of naive if you are not someone who is actually connected to to to movements and political education struggle you can get taken in The let's maybe through your knife or your you know whatever it is. It almost doesn't matter Not able to see. Oh this is this is this is. This is disingenuous this is. I'm not seeing the bigger picture. And that. can you know that can create the appearance of ireland. Some kind of like overlap similarities. But i think that it's superficial because you you say like if you look at the content of what is that people want and are fighting for. It is actually not just different. But completely completely contradictory one candidate mutually exclusive right. Exactly one hundred percent. But i think you know what we have the a lot of times people have the suffer from this being of we'll cross that bridge when we come there. You know what i mean. And so they're willing to take in allies if they agree on you know ninety percent of something they're willing to take on or at least partner with certain unsavory groups of people in order to get to whatever their main is and then they have this this false assumption that you know once we get there then we can deal with destroyed the ever the ten percent that we don't agree with once we get to the end game. That's not a guarantee. You know what i mean like you get once you guys accomplish. Whatever you're ninety percent is that ten percent can be stupid detrimental right. It could be you know something that can can destroy you and the other side wins like they have the same thought process. You know what i'm saying like that's why is just like is always this constant. Do we throw the baby out with the bath water because we don't agree on there's one ten percent thing and we agree with ninety percent of everything else or do we just stay away all together. I think a lot of groups are struggling with that. You know as something something. I notice about why that doesn't work as well is Politics and i feel like when you have converts zeal or fresh out the gate zeal. And everybody has these moments like you know enjoyed ran up george. Flora there was this kind of feeling of Mobilization promontory talks about mobilization versus organization. And if anyone who google that speech is pretty good. We're talks about how mobilization and he gives an example like Martin luther king was a very good mobilizer. He was you know able to get a protest up running really fast. He was able to get a lot of energy happening but he never really built a framework when there was a election for you know the sudden christian Whatever leadership He he didn't do politics good enough to form the relationship you needed to lake win this election. Or whatever you know. But i said malcolm x. for example was a very good organizer everytime we went to a city and spoke and a lot of people don't notice about him and a big problem is A lot of people get this. Get their stuff from the autobiography by addicts haley and and the movie by spike. Lee didn't talk about a lot of the nuts and bolts of what malcolm x. but everywhere malcolm x. Left he left a mosque. He was very big into grassroots organizing and structural stuff so he created a lot of mosques whereas martin luther king didn't really after he left the city after protesting relieve anything behind and the internet nowadays and all. This stuff with variety is very very good at mobilizing. But it's not great at organizing organizing is slow right. And i think one problem that to add to what to add to what mario said another reason why i think the night attending doesn't work because people can't keep it together in my experience. Tv make it to the point where They get what they want. Because because of the slow process though that ten percent ends up causing infighting vaunting apart before you cross the finish line you know with those alliances of convenience you know like like ooh look like how in this this thing with danton. He couldn't stick around with zero population growth people because they weren't going on board with his hardline Immigration stuff like another reason that you just can't last very long in these Coalitions you might last long enough to mobilize but you're not gonna last long enough to actually organized and that's where you really cross the finish line. That's a great point. Yeah and you know in in a weird way you as you talking about max. Creating these lasting institutions that are then able to sustain struggle over time through the ebb and flow of Different mobilizations like tinton broke with other parts of the concentration is movement then created these institutions. That were able to endure. And then when the moment came they were ready in that moment took shape of trump trump trump campaign and trump administration. And i do agree for sure that we're on the left where in a moment of being able to mobilize people very quickly. But it's very reactive. It's very like own. Yeah it was always kind of in response to In response to one like immediate crisis or another and that's necessary like we have to. We do have to be able to do that But it's always you know we're not being we're not able to to create like kind of crisis new able to create things on our own and create a crisis on our own terms Because we haven't built up. The kinds of institutions that that connects was was trying to And was ended Succeeded at certain. I'm going to tell you guys something. it's hard to blame the left or or black radicals or Immigration reform people or any of these people. It's hard to blame them for now. Organizing because i feel like one key part to organize things to make people feel like there's a real unifying Crisis you know That requires more than just just mobilizing. Because i think emotion and being reactive is not gonna be enough to keep you Active because you get tired you know. Even the george floyd thing like the outrage got kinda tiring kind of burnt itself out you to a degree And and really kind of woke me up to this. Is this freaking cova thing. This cova thing does not have people wanting universal healthcare To the point that they're willing to like storm the white house for it. It just is not doing it. People like we just wait for vaccines. Free market will handle it. I was like wow. We are really screwed. Best mass unemployment and all that stuff bernie sanders going to have this huge surge at the last second. I'm like oh my god. This is a gift to bring sanders. Then people were like this biden is going to be the old. The old tried and true. And so i think that's gonna really be a big problem as far as organizing that maybe i think. The biggest obstacle to the left in this country is the the centre-left unanimous saying or the the moderate democratic establishment is probably a bigger obstacle to overcome the right with me. You know what. I'm saying a lot of ways because i'm with ut. I i'm very shocked. I still scratching my head on how well actually no. I'm not scratching my head. Because i know how you know the internal politics of the parties with kept Bernie from really getting huge chris. that's a whole nother discussing for him every day. But you know. I still find myself amazed that you know here. We are again. You know people get more up in arms over. Instagram outage feel like if if instagram and twitter and facebook. With down for like a week. I think people being a trap. Eating i eating a week and somebody's gotta die trek bro. Instagram has any type of bad for a few hours. People are hitting them up immediately. Like hey what's going on here. I'm not getting a minute. I'm not getting as many likes on my selfie. As i normally do to hell's going on see my ass and meal and that's is driving me. Yeah but healthcare people dying. Wait and see hashtag and know. We'll see where it goes from there. I want to read this passage by brendan. This is mario. This is a great depiction of this guy and his like a constant remind me. Oh i think there was a movie. I think it was was called like the lady killers or something. It was kind of movie where this guy was always getting getting money from old women and poisoning them or something and and whatever and this thing so reminded me of the movie. The lady killers was alec guinness. A funny british movie but it goes into this lady may is a descendant of the mellon family break. And it's kinda funny. 'cause carnegie mellon has the foundation associated with a lot of Liberal left wing causes. I think but these other mountains. I think are related to the same. The same melons right correctly have have like almost a billion dollars worth of donations. Some of them was heinous people. So basically they funded both sides of the of the culture war depending on which which mellon. You're talking about this. This this may lady is when the melons. A super racist you know and it says in two thousand. Five facing terminal pancreatic cancer diagnosis may fix created herself with a plastic bag. Leaving behind it. Eight hundred and twenty five million dollar estate in the years following her suicide filing showed the call com foundation which was may's primary funding vehicle toward the end of her life received. Four hundred and forty one million eight hundred eighty six thousand and twelve dollars from as the state and the cornelia estimated family trust another more opaque funding vehicle as well as oliver personal property in more than four hundred and fifty acres of real estate between two thousand and six thousand seventeen so bring the trump era addicted that saw unprecedented mobilization of migrant workers comprehensive immigration reform twice defeated in the us congress and the election of donald trump maze. Cocom foundation poured approximately one hundred and thirty eight million into the ten network that that same guy most of which would not have existed with her support in the first place so i help support the creation of all these things and after her death is a perfect example of like creating things that less they all this money Put into it. The bulk of that money went to fair. a. r. the center for immigration studies. Which i heard before. And i not know what's tied to these people and so this book and numbers. Usa three of the biggest anti immigration tanks that tant either founded or nurtured in the trump administration political appointees almost every federal department that immigration as well as a stall assistant secretary of state nominee include tanta network post on their resumes. And i thought that was really a testament to how good this guy was at getting money out of these these people. Yeah so yeah. It's pretty remarkable. Yes so this guy was active from two thousand. This guy was active from like the seventy s. All the way to do now and most of us haven't even heard his name. Yeah keep it that way. They don't like him they're like roaches. Man they don't like exposure today light they may in the dark man. Yeah they don't They don't like attention. I feel like it's a big problem with the black movements though because because i'm black movements for example yet the black lives matter protest the first one second ones and we've had so many kind of names pop out of that. We've we had like the three black lives matter. Founders de ray all these people but if he has like who is a superstar came out of this fair thing man a lot of these names. Unless you're an avid researcher. The stuff you know rushton is not really a household name. is not really household. Name mc all these people like you know they're much better at Just getting the grass roots stuff done and and keeping their names kind of Hidden do you think it helps to have. It helps to have hundreds of millions of dollars to play with and serve experiment. What do you think that's deliberate or you know. Have there been people who have own wanted to be kind of superstars and make names themselves. Like yeah i think so I mean in a way cordelia escape maze older brother. Richard's gave Is is one of those he he gives even more money to a wider array of conservative causes over the course of his life and i didn't really shy away from the spotlight wasn't he wasn't like You know he wasn't like the coke brothers who were very careful and deliberate about how they engage with media and cultivate a public profile So you know. I don't know there are. There are some people on the right. How how this reeling chicken got described. -til on seems to be We're can kenneth seem like he didn't want to really be exposed as behind the hulk hogan lawsuit and some other stuff but sometimes he does seem. He's a weird when he's much in book to where he seems to kind of vacillate back and forth between wanting to publicly You know show his beliefs in wanted to stay in the shadows. I think i mean just by virtue of his actions we can see that there are some things that he wants to be associated with them some things that he that he doesn't and i think that to a certain extent i think that You know having having a reputation as like a mad. Imagine ious like an evil secret. Evil billionaire Is part of his branding You know. I didn't think he shies away from it exactly Out the i mean. I think that he You know on the other hand you know one something is out there. He kind of embraced it Which is you know. Sort of trump the enjoyed with Trumpian shamelessness. I don't know i think i think there. I think you know. They're the these billionaires in these people they're very They're very flux ball. Yeah you know interesting but what you says Even when tannin diet it was interesting how they did not still wasn't signing his work like is In eulogy was mentioned everything. But this is just. This was a nice Old civics civic minded guy. You know it's fred is interesting even even death This guy who has a huge Impact on all this stuff and a finger in so many anti democratic Reactionary pots was very close to the vest fascinating. Yeah today the organizations themselves kind of distance themselves from him for just the practical reason that like it is not. You know it's it's it's bad optics to be associated with someone who is openly Openly using natives indeed semitic conspiratorial language and Their political project. Even you know it's kind of like you're saying before it's not. The problem is not the problems not being raised as the problem is like being perceived as racist yes And that is that holds true for that is true on the right as it does for for liberals something i found interesting the ties into what you just said is something called the stage theory by. Somebody called swiss red. And when i read your section on the stage theory to stage theories very much to me like that infamous lee atwater interview in nineteen eighty. One where he talks about the sudden strategy. Lee atwater was talking to republicans can win the vote of racist without sounding racists themselves and This is a quote is the past as you goes you start out in nineteen fifty four by saying nigger nigger nigger resonates in sixty eight years. Nigger that hurts you backfires so you stay stuff like Forced busing state's rights and all that stuff and you're getting so abstract now you're talking about cutting taxes and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is black. Hurt worse than whites quote we wanna cut. This unquote is much more abstract than even the bussing thing And a hell of a lot more abstract nigger nigger and then stace theory disguise. Swin rudd said something. We're saying stuff that the ten network on wanted to kind of hide as tantamount saw The political project being undertaken by fair is this from a book if successful would invite three kinds of responses is the first stage is a knee jerk reaction that the united states is a nation of immigrants were people refused to even consider or talk openly by immigration as a potential problem. Because the statue of liberty's poem. Bring your tired your poor and end the discussion. He explained to fares newly newly hired director in nineteen eighty five the second stages the caveat stage where people say nine hundred you to understand that. I'm not racist native. Rhys or mean. But i've been thinking about this. And what is the effect on. The american blacks. They have to compete in miami when they can't speak english so that's the pause where they say. I'm not a bad person. But i've been thinking about it and it's other. The is some substance here. Then you continue. The third stage is where we can have free and open discussions about it One of fairs basic goals is to make immigration legitimate topic. I wanted to ask you like it seems to me. That's similar to kind of the sudden strategy where it's like you trying to get people on board with stuff without triggering. Part of them doesn't wanna seem racist. And i was wondering about contrasting that with the reason why they left zero population group because it seems like at some point he wanted to be more kind of balls to the wall and overt with this stuff but between then and eighty five. He himself realized the power of subtlety. Yeah that's an interesting comparison. I think you know one of the things that is so chilling about at water. Subscription of the southern strategy is. How clear-sighted. It was in terms of like the ability to sublimate this vulgar racism in vulgar white supremacy into more acceptable more civil sounding language without losing any of the Without losing any of the kind of toxicity in the and violence of you know what the language is saying and ten is describing with this seat Stage theory idea. Is i think in a way kind of is in a way. it's kind of the opposite. Because what he wants is to push the terms of the conversation and the discourse in a direction where people can like away from the kind of sub nation and away from the kind of coded language into being able to talk about as he said immigration openly as as a as a problem the problem of immigration which was not something at the time that was just it was just not a way that people is not it was just like kind of not in the discourse is way way of thinking about this And so it is. I do think. I do think that there is their similarities to to to the southern strategy. Into what is doing But i think it's it's almost in the opposite direction always saying like no. It's okay to be racist. it's okay. It's okay to have these conversations. What tanzania saying actually as you're describing. I think kind of figure it out. How is not a contradiction. I think. I think you're right. And it's not a contradiction to his stance with a population. Grew either it seems at. This is a through line. That kinda goes through. He's similar to atwater in that. He wants to soft soft pedal or Downplay the racist part the part that's anti-black or anti non white but He's opposite of atwater that he wants to be more bold with the immigration discourse He wants to be more explicit more bold demonsration stuff in which case. You're right he is opposite then at what he wants to be able to Call out immigration problem as immigration problem and not using euphemism. But the racial aspect of the immigration. Problem seems to be like a third rail where they don't want to tie the immigration Problem to explicitly to right nationalist. Even though they're more than willing to Get in bed with. Get in bed with white white nationalist. So yeah i think in a way. We're both right. He's he's like well they get water when it comes to actual like black people even trying to make it seem like he's for them but he's the anti at water when it's time to talk about immigrants. He wants it to be known. That's what they're talking about. Yeah and you're in a way like as dogmatism. Kind of thing about it like he. The tannin's political project is kind of it's happening. After the southern strategy like proved to be a six was successful and like the southern strategy worked and so he's operating within that paradigm and even within Archives in his correspondence even privately. It seems to me that he was very careful. Not to fall into Like a kind of open explicit white nationalism like even in his private correspondence with other you know other people who share his values in his beliefs. He was talking in terms of in terms of culture in terms of you. Civilizational norms in terms of In terms of just like social like social values and so in a way kinda in ways the kind of beneficiary or outgrowth of atwater atler southern strategy but he does want immigration to be discussed explicitly. I'd term. I think one way they mesh is that He wants to add immigration to the list of the things that atwater says are preferable You know to the n. Word like like he wants to inch immigration as you know in addition to cutting taxes and all this stuff include immigration reform as as one of those things that you can do without having to explicitly Racist you are There's a lot more to the book. And i don't want to just give people the feeling they can. Just listen to this interview not having to read the book so there's a lot of stuff i deliberately wanted to leave You know on the table on undiscussed. But i wanted to close out to ask. You does anything that you feel like. You do want to talk about that. We haven't discussed discussed from the book that that you think is Or just any final thoughts or any final plugs that you wanna give well. I guess i'll just. I mean one of the things that i do that i would be curious to hear. Hear your thoughts on Is that our conversation. This far has really focused on on panton and gave may and the kind of Ruling class apparatus is that developed over the course of the past century to regulate in adjust. flows of immigration. And all of that but you know a large part of the book is about more contemporary far right organizing That in the kind of resonance and relationship between these sort of elite policy oriented people and the rank and file Proud boys and bigalow boys and and like and you know. I spent a lot of time in the book on. That vantage is sort of different about this book is that i'm trying to figure out. Like what is the relationship between Between these different groups in how how do they relate to each other. So i don't know. I'm curious what you what your takeaway from from those parts of the book. Were sure. sure i'll tell you. I'll tell you this about the proud boy Stuff on this is. There is a lot of connection to the proud boys that i found pretty interesting and I guess one reason. Why focused much on be Older historical stuff. I guess is because i was very taken by How all this stuff isn't how far back. It goes and might not have done a good job. Inexpensively tying it into things like the proud boys and biglou stuff which you do. Yeah exactly exactly but you do you do a through line of bringing all the way through trump and gavin mcginnis and one thing one thing that really drove me crazy and still drives me. Crazy happens all the time. I did a recent very long threat on on twitter about it whereas laying out the map. Of gavin mcginnis white nationalist roots. And he's had white nationalist tattoos since like the nineties screwdriver. You mentioned all that stuff like you did your homework. A big problem. I really have is how and similar to the jimmy. Dorothy where he said. Hey talked to a big lou boy and you won't believe this. They're they're anti this this this too just like us. And we used to his word at what he believes. You know Simply mcginnis a lot of people kind of mcguinness's had several. Wow this thing happened and made me realize that maybe political correctness is bad and that I'm being turned into Conservative or reactionary by discovering these new facts but then when you look into his history since canada is his ancestor nineties. When he was young. He's been in this world forever and yulia people a lot of the time and it drives me nuts. There was this Journalists i knew who writer who lived in brooklyn and You know modern person a few times. Who tweeted oh. It's so funny. That gavin mcginnis. You know as a bit you know. Or whatever courted these white supremacists and you know. Ironically now he's kind of trapped. Do this and i'm like no. No no no no no and it drove me nuts and i think one reason is that i feel like vice and government. Guinness in aesthetic has done so much Like besides gawker vice is probably the most influential thing on the voice of modern New york or slash alternative alternative media that camping to thousands lot of people to void saying that they were kind of taken in by this guy and so much of people's aesthetic views having a very different politics from again is You know came from mccain's vice that they've kind of made this cope where they tell themselves that he was ironic thing and and you know just just lost the plot or in the movies with cock was on the cover and then go student cover and stuff and i really wanted to compliment that part of the book that you do not even in new york times recently had articles like actual journalists that should do basic research. How do you You know right that this is a hipster wing guy who You know it a recent hilter and it's not what it is. He's always been this guy. And i think i think that's a really Good part of the book with the proud boys is that you don't buy into that narrative which infuriates me. Yeah i try to be very careful to show that gavin in particular has been in this world for for a minute now. He's he's not a he's not. He's not a recent convert by any stretch yet provides. Yeah yeah yeah so It goes very into like today's current events and news so yeah definitely definitely read it not just for a history lesson but it all goes right into right into the present and yet thanks. Thanks for joining us. I hope we Got all the best parts of the book out there without Over explain the booking giving giving people you know enough that they want to go check it out. I think it's pretty good book. And and the resource section. I think is really great too. I think he did a really good job on giving people places to go to Flush out and add some more meat to the bone if they want to. Yeah i hope so. There's a lot of incredible work. That's been done On on these subjects that i learned a lot from and so it was important to me to be able to share that with with anybody who interested yet and we do extend the invitation to you now is that we We have a livestream that we did to livestream is for like more topical things things in the news things that aren't like you know big ideas or whatever that You know would be kind of stale in a week or two so I was gonna say in the future if anything happens like you know in the news. For example there's like another capital rights type thing We love to have you on the live stream to canada. Talk about our current events or whatever so Would be happy to yeah great so thanks thanks again and tell people again where to find you on twitter if they wanna follow you. Sure thing it's my handle is at underscore brendan g. r. e. n. d. a. n. Okay any websites I mean yeah. I like my portfolios. Brendan dash o'connor dot com. I'm a freelancer. So i'm all over the place all key. Great in the book is Blood blood red lines. Definitely check it out and take brandon and to everyone out there be good. Thanks so much june.

kellyanne conway brendan paul erlich canton stephen miller republican party santon cornelius panton carnegie mellon carnegie carnegie mellon erlich John danton Ernie maniac brennan paul ernest cuba charlie federation for american immigr united states
Free To Be Childfree

Endless Thread

43:23 min | 1 year ago

Free To Be Childfree

"Support for endless thread comes from zoom. Zoom phone works seamlessly within the zoom APP. As Your Business phone system to make and receive calls capture call recordings things and easily elevate from phone call to video if needed visit zoom online to learn more meat happy with zoom produced. I by the I lab. Wr Boston I am a thirty four year old Caucasian female now. I grew up in a rural town in the Pacific northwest and at a very young age. I did decide that I did not want to have children. My name is summer from. Can you and I'm chilled free. which is very odd for this society that I'm GonNa pin since I I was eighteen? I've been trying to have my tubes tied to no avail so sad to lose judge. This do whatever whatever you want. That's what they see watching. All of my friends have children. Now I can see how exhausted they are financially emotionally how depleted their relationships are because it's so difficult for them to be able to be a part of a partnership as well as try eight to raise these tiny humans name is Erin. I'm from Austin. I'm thirty three single and I anti work in tech my favorite. Never have I ever answered is. I've never changed the diaper and I plan on keeping it that way. My name is Ben I live in Massachusetts. I'm pretty old but I look amazing. I am married and I have twins who are two and a half years old. My favorite favorite. Never have I ever answer is that I never have calculated the number of diapers. I've changed and I planned on keeping it that way up until this episode but I couldn't resist I've changed I am ready. I believe in the Ballpark of three to four thousand diabetes. Okay my name is Anne Marie. I'm not as old as has been I also live in Massachusetts. I have changed some diapers like anyone else who grew up babysitting. But I honestly don't know if there are more or in my future because I don't know for sure if kids are in my future I might end up child free emory remember when we first started talking about making an episode that involved the Child Free Community on read it. Yeah and I specifically remember seeing that community for the first time because it felt like I had entered had another dimension or like I was walking into a speakeasy where people were doing things and talking about things that that I didn't think you could talk about about but you know I I showed it to you. You remember that I remember and I'm the dad so you know I just want to say that well if you you are a writer whether you have kids now we're not you may have stumbled upon the child free community yourself because it's been exploding on read it in just the last year or so. The group has doubled in size from three hundred thousand members to more than seven hundred thousand. There are a few reasons for this people who might have considered having in kids in the past are looking at climate change and thinking they don't want to subject their kids to environmental destruction or take part in environmental destruction action by having kids the warns we only have until twenty thirty to keep global warming below a point where entire ecosystems will be lost. Also money some. Some estimates put the cost of having and raising a kid in middle class America at a quarter of a million dollars without money for college when adjusted for inflation. The cost of raising a child born in Twenty twelve twenty three percent higher than for a child born in one thousand nine hundred sixty the fast. There's also this kind of long arc of history thing happening to where women in particular have more and more freedom and interest in pursuing things other than bearing and raising children and there's an awakening happening happening about the culture of pressure around having kids in our society and child free is part of that awakening. I want to say. I think we're pretty good. Due to tackle this one emory because I'm sympathetic to people who don't want kids and I respect their point of view but I'm also a dad. Who's maybe a little skeptical of some parts of the child pre thick and you are offensive or another piece of lingo around child? Free a person who is on the fence about having kids but yes I. I think we got this. We got this. Today's episode free to be child free. I'm Ben Brock Johnson. I'm Marie Stevenson and you're listening to endless thread. The show featuring stories found in the vast ecosystem of online communities called ready. We're coming to you from. Wbu You are Boston's NPR station. We tapped into our own child like energy when we greeted. Amy Amy. Yes it's Benny Ben. Johnson Hi hi how are you. Oh I'm well how are you guys. Pretty good amy was well but hungry. I'm sorry you haven't had lunch yet. That sounds rough. Oh No oh that's okay. Maybe maybe if you had progeny they would have served you some lunch by now writes. I know one of many reasons. I made such a huge mistake. Amy Blackstone is a sociology geology professor at the University of Maine. And she's child free. But that's not how she thought things would turn out if you asked me. I had a plan when I was ten or eleven Kevin. I knew that I was going to start having children when I was twenty. I would have two kids a boy and a girl and I would be the cool mom who picked my kids up at school rule and you know showed up with Capri Suns and in my leg. warmers and mini skirt. This is the eighties so I had this real vision fast forward a decade and a half From the kids. Drink era of Capri Sun to the Nineteen Nineties Aka the brief but glorious rule of the drink sunny delight. Amy had married her high school sweetheart. We talk she had a PhD fulfilling career and no children yet by the time. I hit my mid thirties and was still answering answering with the. I'm too young. I'm not interested yet. Maybe later I realized maybe something else is going on Maybe I don't Wanna I wanNA have kids and and That was the point at which I really started thinking more deeply about parenthood as a choice. So amy did what you might. It expected doctor of sociology to do. She started looking into the topic. I went to find research to sort of answer. That question of what's wrong with me. Why am I not feeling that maternal instinct and I discovered there was less sociological work on the the experience of being child free the and on the process by which people make this decision than I expected to find? Amy started doing her own research and she and her husband Lance started a blog called. We're not having a baby. They share research rants memes and stories including the one about how they quote. It came out as child free to AMY's family a lot of child. Free people use that expression by the way amy says it's not intended to take away from the LGBTQ TQ experience of coming out it's meant to draw parallels between the ways in which people push back against what mainstream society sees as normal and natural role and appropriate for amy her coming out took even her by surprise lance and I were happened to be hosting my nephews first year birthday and and at his birthday party my sister asked so. When are you? And let's give Jessica cousin and like I just had this very visceral reaction to that question and and you know had been thinking for a while at this point that I didn't want to be a mother And felt uncomfortable in that place and so when my sister asked this question at my just blurted out never and room just sort of went silent. Amy says this was a really uncomfortable moment and it felt like an outsized reaction but I felt right so it was freeing into declare loudly that she really was not going to have kids. Amy declared her decision even louder this year when she published a book on the topic. It's called child free by choice and probably the first step in understanding what it means to be child. Free is understanding what the term child free means means. I chose to use that term And you know the other term that people talk about his childless or voluntarily childless and for many child free people the term childless doesn't accurately or adequately represent their experience. It's putting the emphasis on a thing that we don't have because we've chosen not to have it. Incomplete right right. Opting out of having kids is in new but the concept of it being a movement or a political choice child free voluntarily childless. Whatever you call it it seems to be growing in the conversation about it in more recent years can probably be traced back to a couple of movements in the nineteen sixties in one thousand nine hundred seventy S? I up the second wave feminist movement which is connected to the FDA approving the birth control pill in nineteen sixty also roe versus wade which came thirteen years later legalizing abortion. These two landmark events gave people more control than ever before four in their decisions about parenthood. We're all better off when women have equal access to healthcare to the workplace to education education When they're able to control and make their own decisions about their reproductive lives and their bodies next up something called the zero population relation growth movement focusing on you guessed it our expanding population post baby boom and then zero population growth movement really raised our awareness about humans impact on the environment particularly in Western nations with you know different consumption patterns than other nations around the world world according to Pew Research Data from two thousand fifteen about fifteen percent of women in the US reached their fortieth birthday without having given birth? But Amy is quick to point out that the data is far from perfect. A woman who doesn't have a child is not necessarily a child free woman. I mean we know what what proportion of women and their lives without ever having children but we we don't have good data on what right exactly among those women which of them is childless. which of them wanted to become parents but didn't or couldn't for any number of reasons and which of them has child free Demographers do know is that we're in an extended era of declining for tilleke rates in this country country which is strange because there are more women of childbearing age these days than there were a decade ago. But we don't know how many of the people opting out talk delaying. Parenthood are doing so because they're choosing to be part of this child free movement and so we don't know how big the movement is while you can't currently measure the growth of the entire child free movement. You can measure it on Reddit where there is a child free community that recently has been going gangbusters in busters. Currently we're growing at more than one thousand two hundred subscribers per day. You heard that right and you heard it from Chris. I'm Thirty five of Europe German guy. Currently in Soochow China on actually one of the moderators of the Chug Free Forum. These days Chris Lives in China but before that he lived in Kenya Madagascar Nigeria Tanzania Liberia Norway Luxembourg. We get it. He's well traveled traveled. Guy Makes Jason Bourne. Look like a homebody. Chris's worked in banking toryism transportation medical device technological right. We get it. He's he's also a Swiss army man and Chris says his career hopping globetrotting lifestyle. He's become a bit of a joke between him and the friends of his who have kids When they see me posting on facebook instagram? I'm now in silent in Vietnam I'm doing coffee roasting workshop in Bali and stuff like that and they're like and I'm just taking the little one to the park and here I am with little one going To the doctor to the dentist and whatever Chris says there's always a boom in growth growth of the sub reddit this time of year probably because the holidays mean family gatherings and family gatherings mean an onslaught of unsolicited comments comments questions and opinions about your life choices. Things like what you don't like kids well. It's different when it's your own you know. Don't you WanNa give your parent's grandchildren children. But who will take care of you. When you're old you're young you'll change your mind? Brought you to make such cute kids together. And how about this one straight from the pope no Nevada fee. Hey as date or east translation. Not Having children is a selfish choice. The child free have a term for these kinds of statements bingos. Bingo is basically coming from the old Bingo game. Where basically soclean that you have a square piece of paper and you have a couple of common expressions that That you're going to see your that you're going to hear over your lifetime Simply meaning you hear it so many times that you're bound to have five for neuro someday and then you're GONNA win price. We knew there's no actual prize in the child. Free Sub Reddit while while but there's a wealth of information reading materials. Faq's best of discussion and threads and a compilation of comebacks to all those bingos in response to the whole you're too young to know for sure. Argument one comeback reads. I'm too young to decide. I don't want children but somehow I'm not too young to decide. I do want children to pope. Francis is selfish argument. Take Take Your pick like I'm selfish for not wanting to bring an unwanted child into this world or how my selfish for putting my own happiness over a non existent being a place for people to post arguments and snarky comebacks might sound unproductive. Then again there are four babies born every every second so people in the child free community. Feel like it's a refuge for a minority that faces intense cultural pressure even with seven hundred thousand thousand subscribers that we are just about approaching compared to seven billion people in the world that still next to nothing and that means if you want to get any kind of support from like minded people than the Internet is the best place to find such a support community This is really interesting to me. Because Emory I've mentioned this quote from author William Gibson that gets repeated all the time in the Tekken Atkins sci-fi world which is the future is here. It's just not evenly distributed. You've mentioned that a lot so I think that in a similar way. That child free conversation is here. It's just not evenly distributed and what I mean by that is how and whether people are having this conversation and their ability to have it depends is a lot on where you are in the world and what kind of community you're living in. This is especially true when you live in a place where being child free isn't just a typical. It's practically unheard of. Don't get it. How can you own monarchy woman not shooting? That's crazy. This is Summer Aka Honest summer on Reddit. Who you heard from at the top of the show a twenty seven year old woman? Who sent us a voice memo from Nairobi Kenya Lead? I'm joking you know being all you just saying that because it now you're you're too busy career woman. You know feminist infamous still used as an insert which aimed to summer has been pretty career focused. She recently got her law all degree but she says one of the main reasons she doesn't want children is because of recent bouts with severe depression. Mental health is sweep potentially after almost almost losing my life my own ultimately released that kids Defend a new every waking moment of their lives for at least eighteen years The realization that you don't have to become a parent has been liberating for summer. She always thought she would just end up a mother that she'd follow the so called life script. That is more or less expected. Go to school. Get A job get married. Have have kids die. Some people in the child free community rip up that life script a lot sooner than others. There's never been a bone in my body that said. Hey I see myself in the future with two kids a wife and picket fence. This is Wiki Fido on read it. You can call him Jason. Just don't expect act him to show up to your kid's birthday party through the course of my life I've I've avoided situations with lots of kids holding babies Just it had a overtly nurturing towards a child human being I've I've just never felt that compulsion it's not just human babies. Jason is talking about when he was in middle school he was assigned to take care of one of those robot. Babies you know the thing they give you in health with class that show you how much work babies are. Just a scare you out of having sex Ben. Did you ever have to take care of one of those. I did not and it shows well. Jason did not want to take care of this robot baby and he was pretty tech savvy so being the curious individual that I am I said Oh. Hey I'm gonna go ahead and see how this thing works and I used a screwdriver took it apart and found that it had an S. D. Card in it and then when I put the SD card into computer. I've found out how the hell it was keeping score of. You keeping track of what you were doing to the baby positive negative otherwise Figured out how scoring worked give myself a B.. Plus you hotwired the baby. Yes it is if you are literally hacking your way out of simulated parenthood yeah. Maybe you shouldn't opt into the real thing but around the same time Jason was using his tech skills for homework kluge. Something else was going on. Something that he thinks has shaped his view. You kids in general. I did end up in the emergency room twice as a as a victim of bullying. You know so I think to some extent that as far as nurture goes goes in cooking my brain in such a way that has me with very negative view of children and and things like that that may be a contributing factor certainly now not all kids become bullies obviously and not all kids become victims of bullying. But there's an uncertainty and a lack of control troll in becoming apparent that makes Jason and maybe other child free people uncomfortable. Will the child have medical issues on their birth. Will they you. You know Be a certain way through throughout their middle and high school years You know you can't plan around that. It makes you very anxious and uncomfortable. I I totally get this perspective. By the way when you become a parent you definitely lose some of your sovereignty as an individual person but you also have to accept this whole new set of realities that are outside of your control which can be stressful to even imagine and for someone like Jason. The answer is simple. Avoid that anxiety Ziobro by just not having kids avoiding having kids less simple. We'll get to that in a minute Support for endless thread comes from zoom. Zoom phone is a top tier cloud phone solution with the same ease of use Jason reliability. That you've come to expect from zoom meetings. Zoom phone work seamlessly within the zoom APP as your business phone system to make and receive phone calls. Captor call recordings and easily escalate to video if the need arises and it works wherever you are in the office or on your mobile device sign up for zoom phone online line at Zoom Dot Com and meet happy with zoom. So we're talking about the decision to have have kids specifically the decision to not have kids to be child free which is something. I'm thinking about as of right now I'm a fence sitter her. which has its own community on Reddit? By the way people sharing their fears and frustrations and asking a lot of questions really common question. My partner wants kids but I'm on the fence. Is that a deal breaker. I married my first husband under the impression that he was fully aware because of conversations. We had that I was not interested in having any children and we subsequently divorced because he let let me know that he had always wanted to have children and thought that he would be able to change my mind. This is Levin Howard who we heard from earlier. She's clearly not offense sitter so yeah. The decision over kids can be a deal breaker but the reality is the decision about having kids isn't always a conscious decision. Asian case in Point Fan Br Johnson. I was not planned. I was a special surprise snowflake and you still are. But according the recent data about forty five percent of children currently being born in the US are unplanned for a variety of reasons to someone like Jason the Red Hot wires mechanical babies avoids real ones at all costs. This statistic is unsettled Well I'm doing my damndest to not attempt to get a vasectomy Doing your damnedest but not succeeding at the moment. No most doctors. This will sense since it is an elective procedure. Most you know. Kick it down the line or some outrageous. Say No. You're too young. Jason has seen five doctors about out there so far with no luck and it's a common experience even more common for women to have a medical professional look askance at a permanent or even not permanent surgery which is messed up because once you have kids you go in there. And they're like Yep no problem and this is also why there's a list on on the subject of the child free friendly doctors by state and even by country. Also a how to get sterilized guide with a ton of information about the different sterilization options including one that I confess I didn't even know about and neither did the editor subtlety eighty seven. I've discovered bilateral self inject back to me through the red at child freeboard and as soon as I read about it as like. Oh that that's what I want. Bilateral Sal injecting me a removal of the Philippian Lopin tubes not to be confused with Tubal. ligation having your tubes tied. Subtlety is only a couple years older than Jason but she was able to find a doctor. Who would sterilize her in part because she's had bad reactions to several other types of birth control but she was told she'd have to wait one month to get the surgery a mandated waiting period in the socially conservative state? where she lives? She says it was worth away especially because she has a demanding career in the performing arts and she says says she doesn't have room for kids could she make room sure. People who want kids make room different people want different things I think there's this idea. There's a massive lack you know and I'm not looking to fill a void in my life. There's no void to begin with for me. And you you know a lot of people say it's like Oh there's nothing like the feeling of watching your kids playing in having your spouse right next to you and I'm like I also get similar feelings of contentment and joy and happiness. You know in the little home in the little family that I have built and I just I think that it to discount someone else's happiness is quite hurtful and I think people often they don't they don't mean to do that but it happens. There's a lot discounting people's happiness goes both ways though and you definitely see some of this and the child free community online people asking how anyone could ever ever want children calling misbehaving children crotch demons or screaming meet sirens if you are offense eter some of the negativity you find in there towards children children could drive you away. There's also a lot of judgment about what is and isn't good. Parenting which in actual parent might find a little rich. Then I mean I won't say never judge other parents but I also definitely think it's tough to judge parents if you've never been apparent I think it's also really tricky to judge someone one who's chosen not to be apparent about that choice which is obviously a big part of what the Child Pre community is about. Yeah for the most part. It's a safe space for people to navigate eight in uncommon and even unpopular life choice together without worrying about offending people in their lives who've made the opposite choice which brings us to maxine. maxine trump no relation to. You know I met a documentary. Trump's against trump which is just a little dog or the trumps that didn't vote for trump. That's what maxine does. She makes documentaries sometimes about things that hit close to home like her latest film to Kid or not to kid I. I always put off my decision to have children. Childless women can never be happy. Childless choice is sort of cancer in our culture. We eight needed have higher birth rates in this country. The film follows maxine to conferences. meet up groups and into difficult conversations with her husband and her own mother other as she tries to figure out whether or not she really is going to be child. Free which spoiler she is. Maxine didn't know about the child free sub read when she started making her film back in twenty thirteen. She'd been feeling alone in her uncertainty even more so after one particular conversation with her best friend end who happened to be a parent. This world is really kind of reaching a point. Where how can we sustain the people that are already here with resources and food and energy and etcetera etcetera? And I was saying you know people that have really large families. I said I thought that was selfish. Now that's not great language to begin a conversation but she was my friend and I was trying to. You know when when I was saying you know. I don't know whether I won't kids like if I don't want kids. I feel really really sure that I shouldn't have them because the world doesn't don't need any more kids and she just took it. The wrong way and relationship is has never been the same since. MAXINE hasn't spoken spoken to this friend in a decade but she learned a lot from this conversation and she wants others to as well including me and Ben just as I was telling rolling maxine that I think my friends colleagues will support me. If I don't have children get Ameri the best gift when she has kids. Okay so maxie he makes makes this all the time all that needs to stop. I mean even the little subtle jokes over time. It's a little pressure story. Sorry firm that's kind of what I was. Well we talk about that. You know we have talked about that and that's kind of that's kind of where I was going with. This is that you know it's not that I think I'm I'm going to be disowned. It's it's like the little Disappointment you know knowing that certain people are taken more seriously because their parents parents but I do think there is. There is potential for a greater awareness. As as more and more people learn that. It's okay to say you don't don't want children. I totally agree and for what it's worth. I will say fully on the record that I will love you. Ameri like equally either way. If if you have kids or don't have kids. Thank you and I think like you would be an incredible parent so like that's where not the and well and the thing is like I think that's okay for me to feel that way like. I don't think that there's anything wrong with like that. Being a place where. I'm coming from Tom. But as a friend who knows that Ameri as explore is having this sort of. She's on the spectrum of where you know flipping flopping between either all Amory obviously I don't know you very well but giving your friend the room by not sort of saying oh you'll be a good mom or your it did. It's like respectful where she is in her decision. Making just giving the room. Because we've been it's been an indoctrination the nation and what you're doing by holding back Ben is allowing is falling into the trap and I do say trap of of we are being told old. This is the next step for us all the time in society everywhere. There's a term for this by the way it's called Pro Natal ISM awesome encouragement to have children. Whether it's coming from your church or from your government like the Danes did a few years ago with their do it for Denmark campaign or directly from a friend but it can also be our friends that help us push-back against the pro nativist messaging that we're bombarded with by you banging a great friend and giving holding back you're saying listen I'm supporting you subtly by not saying you'll be a great mom or oh having jokes is giving her that space to just kind of while. She's deliberating about what she wants to do to make her not feel weird if she he doesn't decide to have kids. Does that make sense. I think like if it makes sense in some ways but the other side of that to me is that like your friends are people who influence you. Your friends are people who like what they're saying. Lund's you're saying influence breath Morris but why do you want to influence one way or the other that. Don't you just want to be happy. Oh of course but but my perspective is is a hundred percent that like if she like if she decides to have children that she will be happy and so like if she if she ends ends if she decides not to have children so happy night. But you may not be saying that as much as you're saying the other side of the equation equation. Okay this is a good point. Although in fairness to ben he does a pretty good job of painting a realistic portrait of parenthood for me on a regular basis I get the cute picks and the tales of late night tantrums. Definitely more Tantrum tantrum stories. Actually yeah and this is the part where personally I think maybe maxine is not really privy to the nature of our relationship and our conversations about this friends from where I sit. A true friend is someone who will tell you or give you a sense when they have a different perspective. Even if it's not super comfortable not to tell you you're wrong to not have kids but to say that's interesting. I look at it a different way. In here's how I look at it so that in sharing your different perspectives. You both make more informed choices. Whatever choices you make? That's fair as long as you're not disappointed if my husband and I ignore your perspective entirely when we make our choice of course Chris. I fully expect that. It's also really important to me to give space and only respond when your friend asks you for advice right and I think I'm pretty of careful about that. Generally Yeah No. It's usually a reaction to something like you say how much it must suck to have kids and I say I have never done that. I would never do that fair. But I make jokes about reveling in your adventures as a future parent. Possibly when we're already talking about kids but because we have the report that we do I can just say you know. Yeah yeah enroll my eyes and that's the end of it but maybe I will start responding with a comment about how well rested. I am damn or not sticky. My houses so sticky. And then I'll say yeah. Yeah enroll my is you. I expect like nothing less okay. So the bottom line is you can't really know what life would have been like with kids or without them if you're in the other position just like it's true that for me there are things I know now as a parent that I didn't know even the day before my kids were born and in the last few years you might have learned a whole bunch of things that you didn't learn because you were busy parenting totally also to be clear. We are co workers as well as friends and as CO worker. I know that your choices about family. A really none of my business. Also it's important to know that for a woman it's really different. maxine made this point to and then you get that I do obviously I grant on. Its face absolutely that this impacts women very differently than men. And that's you know. Start there but the other thing I would say is that like. I also think there's no question that for me throughout my life you know already in the two and a half years that I've been apparent and probably for the rest of my life. I will spend many many days wondering what could have been. There's no question about that so so to me like that. Part of it is like. That's that's kind of basic as well. And so I you know I'll just sort of put it bluntly for the sake of illustration like I think it's possible that you you you've made a mistake that you don't know you've made oh controversial fam- country out there right and Mike I. If I didn't have kids I may have. I may have made a mistake that I didn't know I made right. So throw that right back to him. maxine thank you. You may have made a mistake that you don't know about yet. I mean you know I get a hint of it all the time exactly. No I mean I don't mean that in I truly mean that in like I mean that in an empathetic way not in like accused. I still trying to find the empathy. I'm trying to find the empathy in that statement. But Um you know I don't need to protest too much like make the decision you WanNa make like I. I don't care I really don't care I know what makes me happy. And that is going around the world filming in an amazing places Isis. I would never access otherwise and that makes me so happy. And that's what we're talking about really is what makes you so happy if you are pining desperately to have a child and you know that's your heart's desire good for you and have that child and I love that child and feel a satisfaction. The I feel in my life is kind of giving me chills as I'm sitting here because this has been a really really interesting listing conversation because we in the many podcasts interviews. I've done we don't always drill down or half the time against the real psychology event. So that's all I'm about. I'm just like drill down. Have the space have the room to be able to really think about. What makes you happy and find that source and go with it? Hamry since our interview with maxine. I've been thinking being a lot about this and here's what I want to say okay. The clearest message I want to send to use someone on the other side of this. Is that having a kid for me and for I think a lot of parents. It's who live really full unhappy lives. It wasn't an easy clear decision. I think it's normal to question your choice to be apparent even after you are a parent and I think we need to be real about that because while a lot of people really are positive about their feelings on this child free community is totally right that there's a messed up part of our society that pretends ends. It's not okay to not want kids or be unsure about this huge life choice. I was offensive or two which I don't talk about that much and even I know my life changed in. I opted into the life script we've been talking about being a parent is still really scary. I'm not often sure I have. It takes and even if I do. I'm afraid of what my kids will face on the playground and on the planet but when I wake up and take my kids is out of their beds. It's awesome and you know my hope. Every day is that this is just part of my journey as a parent. It's the cost of my choice to feel this way in and at that level. I'm good with it because nine days out of ten I get my mind plum these little maniacal people in my life and you don't don't have to become apparent to get that full heart feeling but I definitely get it from being a parent so whatever you choose to do emory. I support you because you are great. Thank you well. I appreciate that and I've been thinking about why you're jokes about becoming a parent sometimes get under my skin. Even though I know your intentions are nothing but good and I know you. Don't get a vote in the matter. I think it's because even ingest it reinforces this idea of the life script. You know the idea that there's a path that I will inevitably follow or a pass that people at least expect me to follow. Yeah I get that and the thing thing is that is just not how my life has gone so far like if I had done what people expected of me or even what I expected of me. I wouldn't have gone the school where I did. I wouldn't have married or probably even met my husband and I just. I don't think I'd be making a podcast. I really don't. It's fun as it is but I like making things up as I go along and allowing myself to be surprised at how happy I am with the choices. I didn't think I'd make. And how underwhelmed own Diane sometimes with the ones I did think I'd make and the same really goes for kids if I have them. It's going to be another thing that I did not see myself off doing and like You ben I might love it. But if there's a big takeaway for me from working on this episode and having these conversations stations it's a much needed reminder that there is no such thing as a life script so all I know is that whether my husband in an I have kids or not. We're definitely getting a dog. I my God your husband will have such cute dog's together you damn right we will Endless thread is a production of. WVU Are Boston's NPR station in partnership with red. It Josh Schwartz is our producer who also plans ends to do. A coffee roasting workshop in Bali as long as the policy is no stupid questions. Iris Adler is our executive producer. And if she ever here's a Bingo in the office fisk she's like my cosmo mic. Sound is on by Paul. Vikings who thinks screaming meet sirens are just forbidden snacks. Michael Pope is our advisor Iser read it. Cuma toddler more editing help from WBZ managing producer. Cat Brewer extra production assistance from James. Lindberg our intern is Magdala. Mata Maggie Maggie sign reactions to this episode or ideas for future episodes. Hit US up on. Read it we are endless underscore thread we also have an official sub. Read it now you can find find that and talk to us at endless thread dot ready dot com my co host and producer Emirates Iverson senior producer and Co host. Ben Brock Johnson. Thou let myself I self out. WBU ours kind. World is back with a new season starting with lifelines stories of compassion from the southern border. We speak to a dedicated group of volunteers. Making a difference in the lives of asylum-seekers searching for safety and security I just can't turn my back on them and I don't think we should listen to W._R.'s. Kind world a podcast telling stories of extraordinary acts of kindness. New episodes on Tuesdays. Subscribe now on Apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen.

Child Free Community maxine. maxine trump Jason Bourne Amy Amy Ben Brock Johnson Reddit Chris Lives US Boston Benny Ben Massachusetts Anne Marie Lance emory Bali Pacific Erin Austin America
Dear Sugars Presents: Free To Be Childfree

Dear Sugars

44:32 min | 1 year ago

Dear Sugars Presents: Free To Be Childfree

"Dear sugars is brought to you by the elway generation q a bold new series for a bold new generation get wrapped up in the lives of a fun and Fabulous Group of friends. They experienced success setbacks. Sex and of course drama in Los Angeles this fierce crew is doing it all from confidently starting new new relationships to taking on the Patriarchy and running for public office. The l word generation q start streaming this Sunday only on showtime produced by the island at. WVU ARE BOSTON. Hey Sugar fans I'm Anne Marie and I'm Ben we are the hosts of endless thread another podcast from WBZ in Boston. Our latest episode is about a growing movement. Meant that hits close to home for me. At least it's about the hundreds of thousands of people who are choosing to be child free or to never have kids and this is the topic I know has been discussed on dear sugars. I remember the Elizabeth Gilbert episode and the baby or bust episodes. And so we thought that you might relate to this content as well and this is a conversation that you might appreciate hearing some other perspectives on and so part of this episode explores kind of our relationship our struggle with this question. And hopefully you'll be able to relate a little bit. ooh I am a thirty four year old Caucasian female. I grew up in a rural town in the Pacific northwest at a very young age. I did decide that I did not want to have children. My name is some from Kenya and I'm free. which is very odd for this set? GonNa since I was eighteen. I've been trying to have my tubes is tied to no avail said to judge this. Do whatever you want. That's a C anyway watching. All of my friends friends have children now. I can see how exhausted they are financially emotionally how depleted their relationships are. Because it's so oh difficult for them to be able to be a part of partnership as well as tried to raise these tiny. Humans name is Erin. I'm from Austin. I'm thirty three single and I work in tech my favorite. Never have I ever our answer is I've never changed a diaper and I plan on keeping it that way. My name is Ben I live in Massachusetts. I'm pretty any old but I look amazing. I am married and I have twins who are two and a half years old. My favorite never have I ever answer is that I never have calculated the number of diapers. I've changed and I planned on keeping it that way up until this episode but I couldn't resist. I've changed Ameri. I believe in the Ballpark of three to four. Thank diabetes who okay. My name is emery. I'm not as old as Ben. I also live in Massachusetts. I have changed some diapers like anyone else who grew up babysitting. But I honestly don't know if there are more in my future because I don't know for sure if kids Are In my future. I might end up child. Free Ameri do you remember when we first started talking about making an episode that involved child free community on read it. Yeah and I specifically specifically remember seeing that community for the first time because it felt like I had entered another dimension. Or like I was walking into a speakeasy speakeasy where people were doing things and talking about things that that. I didn't think you could talk about but you know I showed it to you right. You remember that it's not I remember and I'm the Dad. Yeah so you know I just WanNa say that well if you are a redder whether you have kids now we're not you may have stumbled upon upon the child free community yourself because it's been exploding on read it in just the last year or so. The group has doubled in size from three hundred thousand members to more than seven hundred thousand. There are a few reasons for this people who might have considered having kids in the past are looking at climate change and thinking they don't want to subject their kids to environmental destruction or take part in environmental destruction by having kids the UN warns. We only have until twenty thirty already to keep global warming below a point where entire ecosystems will be lost also money some estimates put the cost of having and raising a kid in middle class America Arca at a quarter of a million dollars without money for college when adjusted for inflation the cost of raising a child born in two thousand twelve US twenty three percent higher than for a child born in nineteen sixty the fast. There's also this kind of long arc of history thing happening to where women in particular have more and more freedom an interest in pursuing things other than bearing and raising children and there's an awakening happening about the culture of pressure around having kids in our society you and child free is part of that awakening I want to say. I think we're pretty good to tackle this one amory because I'm sympathetic to people who don't want kids and I respect affect their point of view but I'm also a dad. Who's maybe a little skeptical of some parts of the child prefix and you are offensive or another other piece of lingo around child free person who is on the fence about having kids but yeah? I think we got this. We got this. Today's episode free to be child free. I'm Ben Brock Johnson. I'm Amorous Iverson and you're listening to endless this thread. The show featuring stories found in the vast ecosystem of online communities called we're coming to you from WBZ Boston's NPR station. We tapped into our own child like energy when we greeted. Amy Amy. Yes it's Benny Ben. Johnson Ameri hi how are you. I'm well how are you guys. Pretty good. Good Gamey was well hungry. I'm sorry you haven't had lunch yet. That sounds rough. Oh no no. That's okay maybe maybe if you had progeny they would have served you you some lunch by now right. I know one of many reasons. I made such a huge mistake. Amy Blackstone is a sociology professor at the University of Maine. And she's child free but that's not how she thought things would turn out if you asked me. I had a plan when I was ten or eleven. I knew that I was going to start having children when I was twenty. Honey I would have to kids boy and a girl and I would be the cool mom who pick my kids up at school and you know showed up with Capri Suns and in my leg. warmers and mini skirt. This was the eighties so I had this real vision fast forward a decade and a half from the kids. Drink era of Capri Sun to the nineteen nineties. Vaca- the brief but glorious rule of the drinks sunny delight. Amy had married her high school sweetheart. She had a PhD fulfilling career and no children yet by the time. I hit my mid thirties and was still answering with the. I'm too young. I'm not interested yet. Maybe maybe later I realized maybe something else is going on. Maybe I don't WanNa have kids and and That was the point at which I really really started thinking more deeply about parenthood as a choice. So Amy did what you might expect doctor of sociology to do. She started looking into the topic. I went to find research to sort of answer. That question of what's wrong with me. Why am I not feeling that maternal instinct and I discovered there was less sociological work on the the experience of being child free and on the process by which people make this this decision than I expected to find? Amy started doing her own research and she and her husband Lance started a blog called. We're not having a baby. Maybe they share research rants means and stories including the one about how they quote came out as child free to Amy's family a a lot of child free people use that expression by the way. Amy Says it's not intended to take away from the LGBTQ experience of coming out it's meant to draw parallels between the ways in which people push back against what mainstream society sees as normal and natural and appropriate for amy her coming out took her by surprise lance and I were happened to be hosting my nephews first year birthday and at his birthday party my sister asked so. When are you gonNA give Joshua cousin and I like I just had this very visceral reaction to that question and you know had been thinking for a while at at this point that I didn't want to be a mother And felt uncomfortable in that place and so when my sister asked question I just blurted out out never and room just sort of went silent. Amy says this was a really really uncomfortable moment and it felt like an outsized reaction but it felt right so it was freeing to declare loudly that she really was not going to have kids. Amy declared her decision even louder this year when she published a book on the topic. It's called child free by choice and probably the first first step in understanding what it means to be child. Free is understanding what the term child free means. I chose to use that term And you know the other term that people talk about his childless voluntarily childless and for many child free people the term childless doesn't accurately or adequately represent their experience. It's putting the emphasis on a thing that we don't have because we've chosen not to have it. Incomplete right right. Opting out of having kids isn't new but the concept of it being a movement or a political choice child free voluntarily childless. Whatever whatever you call it it seems to be growing and the conversation about it in more recent years can probably be traced back to a couple of movements in the nineteen sixties and nineteen seventies? I up the second wave feminist movement which is connected to the FDA approving the birth control pill nineteen sixty also roe versus wade which came thirteen years later legalizing abortion. These two landmark events gave people more control than ever before in their decisions about parenthood. We're all better her off. When women have equal access to healthcare to the work place to education when they're able to control and make their own own decisions about their reproductive lives and their bodies next up something called the zero population growth movement focusing on you guessed it our expanding population post baby boom and then the zero population growth movement really raised our awareness about humans impact on the environment particularly in and Western nations with you know different consumption patterns than other nations around the world according to Pew Research Data From Twenty fifteen about fifteen percent of women in the US reached their fortieth birthday without having given birth. But Amy is quick to point out that the data is far from perfect. A woman who doesn't have a child is not necessarily a child free woman I mean we know what proportion of women end their lives without ever having children but we we don't have good data on what right exactly among those women which of them is childless which of them wanted to become parents but didn't or couldn't for any number of reasons and which of them is child free. What demographers do know is that? We're in an extended era of declining fertility rates in this country which is strange because there are more women of childbearing age these days than there were a decade ago. But we don't know how many of the people opting out or delaying. Parenthood are doing so because they're choosing in to be part of this child free movement and so we don't know how big the movement is while you can't currently measure the growth of the entire child free movement. You can measure it on reddit where there's a child free community. That recently has been going gangbusters. Currently we're growing at more than one thousand two hundred subscribers per day. You heard that right and you heard it from Chris. I'm Thirty five year old German guy. On currently in Soochow China why not mom actually one of the moderators of the Chug. Free Form. These days. Chris Lives in China but before that he lived in Kenya. Madagascar Asker Nigeria Tanzania Liberia Norway Luxembourg. We get it. He's well traveled. Guy Makes Jason Bourne look like a homebody. Chris says worked in banking tourism transportation medical device technological. Right we get it. He's also Swiss army man and Chris says his career hopping globe trotting lifestyle his become a bit of a joke between him and the friends of his who have kids when they see me posting on facebook and instagram. I'm no in violent. I'm in Vietnam I'm doing a coffee roasting workshop in Bali and stuff like that and they're like yeah and I'm just taking the little one to the park and here I am with with the little one going to the doctor to the dentist and whatsoever. Chris says there's always a boom in growth of the sub. Read at this time of year. Probably because the the holidays mean family gatherings and family gatherings mean an onslaught of unsolicited comments questions and opinions about your life choices. Things is like what you don't like kids. Well it's different when it's your own you know. Don't you WanNa give your parent's grandchildren. Who will take care of you? When you're old you're young you'll change your your mind but you two would make such cute kids together? And how about this one straight from the pope no Nevada fee. Hey initiate translation. Not Having children is a selfish choice. The child free have a term for these kinds of statements bingos bingos. Yeah well Bingo is basically coming from the old Bingo game. Where basically that you have a A square piece of paper. And did you have a couple of common expressions that that you're going to see your that you're going to hear over your lifetime simply meaning you hear it so many times that You're bound to have five hundred zero someday and then you're GonNa win the price there's no actual prize in the child. Free Sub Reddit while while. But there's a wealth of information reading materials. Faq's best of discussion threads and a compilation of comebacks to all lows bingos in response to the whole. You're too young to know for sure. Argument one comeback reads. I'm too young to decide. I don't want children but somehow somehow I'm not too young to decide. I do want children to pope. Francis is selfish argument. Take your pick like I'm selfish for not wanting to bring in an unwanted child into this world or how my selfish for putting my own happiness over a non existent being a place for people to post arguments and snarky archy comebacks might sound unproductive. Then again there are four babies born every second so people in the child free community and feel like it's a refuge for a minority that faces intense cultural pressure even with seven hundred thousand subscribers. That will just about approaching Compared to two seven billion people in the world that still next to nothing and Tim that means if you want to get any kind of support from like minded people Um than the Internet is the best place to find such support community. This is really interesting. Interesting to me because Emory I've mentioned this quote from author William Gibson that gets repeated all the time in the tech and Scifi world. Which is the future is here? It's just is not evenly distributed. Yeah you mentioned that a lot so I think that in a similar way. That child free conversation is here. It's just not evenly distributed. Did and what I mean by that is how and whether people are having this conversation and their ability to have it depends a lot on where you are in the world and what kind of community. Maybe you're living in. This is especially true when you live in a place where being child free isn't just a typical. It's practically unheard of the don't get. How can you not one shooter? That's crazy this is summer AKA on a summer on Reddit who you heard from at the top of the show. The twenty seven year old woman. Who sent us a voice memo from Nairobi? Kenya become joking. You know being all just seeing that because now you're you're too busy a- CANEA woman that is feminist infamous. Still used as an meantime twitchy famed. Summer has been pretty career focused. She recently got her law degree but she says one of the main reasons. She doesn't want children. Dan is because of recent bouts with severe depression. My mental health is only potentially after almost losing my life ons ultimately released that kids. Who depend on you for every injury waking moment of delays for at least eighteen years the realization that you don't have to become a parent has been liberating for summer? She always thought she would just end up. A mother that she'd she'd follow the so-called life script that is more or less expected go to school. Get A job get married. Have Kids die. Some people in the child free community rip up that life script a lot sooner than others. There's never been a bone in my body that said. Hey I see myself in the future with two kids away life in a picket fence. This is Wiki Fido on read it. You can call him Jason. Just don't expect him to show up to your kid's birthday party through the course of my life life I've I've avoided situations with lots of kids holding babies Just anything that had a overtly nurturing during towards a child human being I've just never felt that compulsion it's not just human babies. Jason is talking about when he was in middle school he was assigned to take care of one of those robot. Babies you know the thing they give you in health class that show you how much work babies are. Just a scare you out of having thinks sex Ben. Did you ever have to take care one of those. I did not and it shows well. Jason did not want to take care of this robot baby and he was pretty pretty tech savvy so being the curious individual that I am I said Oh. Hey I'm gonna go ahead and see how this thing works and I used a screwdriver took it apart and found that it had an st card in and then when I put the SD card into the computer found out how the hell it was keeping keeping score of you keeping track of what you were doing to the baby be positive negative or otherwise Figured out how the scoring worked give myself Alfa plus wired the baby. Yes I did if you are literally hacking your way out of simulated parenthood. Yeah maybe you shouldn't opt into the real thing but around the same time Jason was using his tech tech skills for homework kluge. Something else was going on. Something that he thinks has shaped his view of kids. In general I did end up in the emergency room twice ice as a as a victim of bullying. You know so I think to some extent that as far as nurture goes in cooking my brain in such a way that has me with very negative view of children and and things like that that may be contributing factor certainly now not all kids become bullies Obviously and not all kids become victims of bullying but there's an uncertainty and a lack of control in becoming apparent that makes Jason and maybe other third child free people uncomfortable. Will the child have medical issues on their birth. Will they be a certain way through throughout their the middle and high school years. You don't know you can't plan around that it makes you very anxious and uncomfortable. I totally get this perspective by the way when you become a parent you you definitely lose some of your sovereignty as an individual person but you also have to accept this whole new set of realities that are outside of your control which can be stressful to even imagine and for someone like Jason. The answer is simple. Avoid that anxiety by just not having kids avoiding waiting having kids less simple. We'll get to that in a minute. Dear sugar bigger is brought to you by the l Word Generation Q a bold new series for a bold new generation get wrapped up in the lives of fun and Fabulous Group of friends as they experienced experience. Success setbacks sex and of course drama in Los Angeles this fierce crew is doing it all from confidently starting new relationships to taking on the Patriarchy and running for public office the L Word Generation Q now streaming only on showtime. WBZ kind world is back with a new season starting with lifelines stories of compassion from the southern border. We speak to a dedicated hit a group of volunteers making a difference in the lives of asylum seekers searching for safety and security. I just can't turn my back on them and I don't think we should listen CINTAS. Wvu Ours kind world. A podcast telling stories of extraordinary acts of kindness. New episodes on Tuesdays subscribe now on Apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen. So we're talking about the decision to have kids specifically the decision to not have kids to be child free. which is something? I'm thinking about as of right now. I'm offense sitter. which has its own community on Reddit? By the way people sharing their fears the frustrations and asking a lot of questions really common question. My partner wants kids but I'm on the fence. Is that a deal breaker. I married my first. I husband under the impression that he was fully aware because of conversations we had that I was not interested in having any each children and we subsequently divorced because he let me know that he had always wanted to have children and thought that he would be able to change changed my mind. This is Levin Howard who we heard from earlier. She's clearly not offense sitter so yeah. The decision over kids can be dealbreaker but the reality is the decision about having kids isn't always a conscious decision. Case in point Ben Johnson. I was not planned I. It was a special surprise snowflake and you still are but according to recent data about forty five percent of children currently being born in the US are unplanned for a variety of reasons to someone like Jason Editor who hot wires mechanical babies in avoids real ones at all costs. This statistic is unsettled Well I'm doing my damndest to attempt to get a vasectomy Doing your your damnedest but not succeeding at the moment. No most doctors will sense. It's since it is an elective procedure. Most you know kick it down the line line or some outrageous. Say No. You're too young. Jason has seen five doctors about this so far with no luck and it's a common experience even more common for women women to have a medical professional look askance at a permanent or even not permanent surgery which is messed up because once you have kids you go in there. And they're like Yep no brow and this is also why there's a list on the subject of the child-friendly doctors by state and even by country. Also a get sterilized guide with a ton of information about the different sterilization options including one that I confess I didn't even know about and neither did the editor subtlety eighty seven. I discovered bilateral self inject me through the red child freeboard and as soon as I read about it as like Oh that that's what I want. Bilateral Sal injecting me a removal of the Philippian tubes not to be confused with Tubal ligation. Having your tubes tied Hyde. Subtlety is only a couple years older than Jason but she was able to find a doctor. Who would sterilize her in part because she's had bad reactions to several other types of birth birth control but she was told she'd have to wait one month to get the surgery a mandated waiting period in the socially conservative state where she lives she says it was worth the wait especially because she has a demanding career in the performing arts and? She says she doesn't have room for kids. Could she make room sure. People who who want kids make room different people want different things I think there's this idea that there's a massive lack you know and I'm not looking to fill a void void in my life. There's no void to begin with for me and you know a lot of people say it's like Oh there's nothing like the feeling of watching your kids playing in having in your spouse right next to you and I'm like I also get similar feelings of contentment and joy and happiness. You know in the a little home in the little family that I've built and I just I think that to discount someone else's happiness is quite white hurtful and I think people often they don't they don't mean to do that but it happens a lot discounting people's happiness goes both ways though and you definitely definitely see some of this and the child free community online people asking how anyone could ever want children calling misbehaving children crotch demons or screaming aiming meet sirens. If you are offense sitter some of the negativity you find in there towards children could drive you away. There's also a lot of judgment about what is an isn't it. Good parenting which in actual parent might find a little rich. Then I mean I won't say never judge other parents but I also definitely think it's tough to judge parents. If you've never been apparent I think is also really tricky to judge someone WHO's chosen not to be apparent about that choice which is obviously a big part of what the child free community is about. Yeah for the most part. It's a safe space for people to navigate in uncommon and even unpopular life choice together without worrying about offending people in their lives who've made the opposite choice which brings us to maxine trump. No relation to you know. I met a documentary code. Trump's uh-huh against trump which It's just a little dog or the trumps that didn't vote for trump. That's what maxine does. She makes documentaries sometimes about things that hit close close to home like her latest film to Kid or not to kid. I always put off my decision to have children childless women and can never be happy child was choice is a sort of cancer in our culture. We need to have higher birth rates in this country. The film follows maxine to conferences conferences. meet up groups and into difficult conversations with her husband and her own mother as she tries to figure out whether or not she really is going to be child. Free which spoiler she is. Maxine didn't know about the child. Free sub read it when she started making her film back in twenty thirteen. She'd been feeling alone in her uncertainty even more so after one particular conversation with her best friend who happened to be apparent This world is really kind of reaching a point. Where how can we sustain the people that are already here with resources and food and and energy and etcetera etcetera? And I was saying you know people that have really large families. I said I thought that was selfish. Now that's not Great language to begin the conversation but she was my friend and I was trying to. You know when I was saying you know. I don't know whether I won't is like if I don't want kids. I feel really really sure that I shouldn't have them because the world doesn't need any more kids and she just took it the wrong way and our relationship ship has has never been the same since. maxine hasn't spoken to this friend in a decade but she learned a lot from this conversation and she wants others to as well including me and Ben just as I was telling maxine that I think my friends and colleagues will support me. If I don't have children you get Ameri the best gift when she has kids. Okay so maxie. He makes this all the time all that needs to stop. Uh I mean even the little subtle jokes with time. It's a little pressure sewer firm. That's kind of what I was. Well we talk about that. You know we have. I've talked about that and that's kind of. That's kind of where I was going with. This is that you know it's not that I think I'm going to be disowned. It's it's like the little Disappointment this appointment you know knowing that certain people are taken more seriously because their parents but I do think there is. There is potential for a greater awareness. As as more and more people learn that. It's okay to say you don't want children. I totally agree. And for what it's worth I will say fully on on the record that I will love you Ameri like equally either way if you have kids or don't have kids. Thank you and I think like you would be an incredible the ball parent so like that's where not the and well and I think that's okay for me to feel that way like. I don't think that there's anything wrong with like that. Being a place where I'm coming from but as a friend who knows that amory as explore explore is having this sort of she's on the spectrum of where you know flipping between either all Amory obviously I don't know you very well giving your friend the room by not sort of sang. All you'll be a good mom you did. It's like respectful where she is in her decision. Asian making just giving the room. Because we've been it's been an indoctrination and what you're doing by holding back. Ben is allowing is not all falling into the trap and I do think trap of of we are being told this is the next step for us all the time in society see everywhere. There's a term for this by the way it's called Pro Natal ism encouragement to have children. Whether it's coming from your church or from your government like the Danes did a few years ago with their do it for Denmark campaign or directly from a friend but it can also be our friends that help us is push back against the pro natal messaging that we're bombarded with by you being a great friend and giving holding back you'll sang. Listen I'm supporting pulling a subtly by saying you'll be a great mom or having the jokes is giving her that space to just kind of while. She's she's deliberating about what she wants to do to make her not feel weird if she doesn't decide to have kids. Does that make sense. I think like it. It makes sense in some ways but the other side of that to me. Is that like your friends are people who influence you. Your friends are people who like their for free. Saying Lund's you're saying influence Morris but why do you want to influence one way or the yet. Don't you just want to be happy. Oh of course but but my perspective is one hundred percent that like if she like if she decides is to have children that she will be happy and so like if if she ends if she decides not to have children so yeah but you may not be saying that as much as you're saying the other side of the equation. Okay this this is a good point. Although in fairness to ben he does a pretty good job of painting a realistic portrait of Parenthood for me on a regular basis I get the cute picks and the tales of late night tantrums. Definitely more tantrum stories. Actually yeah and this is the part where personally I think maybe maxine not really privy to the nature of our relationship and our conversations about this as friends like from where I sit. A true friend is someone who will tell you or give you a sense when they have have a different perspective. Even if it's not super comfortable not to tell you you're wrong to not have kids but to say that's interesting. I look at it a different way. Here's how I look at it so that in sharing your different perspectives. You both make more informed choices. Whatever choices you make? That's fair as long as you're not disappointed if my husband and I ignore your perspective entirely when we make our choice of course I fully expect that it's also really important to we need to give space and only respond when your friend asks you for advice right and I think I'm pretty careful about that. Generally Yeah No. It's usually a reaction to something like you say how much it must suck to have kids and I say no I have never done. I would never do that fair. But I make jokes about reveling in your adventures as a future parent. Possibly when we're already talking about kids but because we have the report that we do I can just say you know. Yeah yeah enroll my eyes and that's the end end of it but maybe I will start responding with a comment about how well rested. I am or not sticky. My houses so sticky Kishi. And then I'll say yeah. Yeah enroll my is you expect nothing less okay. So the bottom line is you can't really know what life would have been Mike with kids or without them. If you're in the other position just like it's true that for me there are things I know now as a parent that I didn't know even the day before my kids were born and in the last few years you might have learned a whole bunch of things that you didn't learn it because you were busy. Parenting totally also to be clear. We are co workers hers as well as friends and as a CO worker. I know that your choices about family. A really none of my business. Also it's important to know that for a woman it's really different different. maxine made this point to and then you get that I do obviously I grant on. Its face absolutely that this impacts women women very differently than men. And that's you know start there but the other thing I would say is that like. I also think there's no question that for me throughout my life you you know already in the two and a half years that I've been apparent and probably for the rest of my life. I will spend many many days wondering what could have been. There's no question about that hat so so to me like that. Part of it is like that's that's kind of basic as well and so I you know I'll just sort of put it bluntly for the Sake Kabila station like I think it's possible that you you've made a mistake that you don't know you've made oh controversial controversial fan country out there and Mike. I mean if I didn't have kids I may have. I may have made a mistake that I didn't know I made rights writes. Throw that right back to him. Maxine thank you may have made a mistake that you don't know about out yet. I mean you know I get hints of it all the time exactly. No I mean I don't mean that in I truly mean in like I mean that in empathetic way. Not In like accused. I still trying to find the empathy. I'm trying to find the empathy in that statement for You know I don't need to protest too much like make the decision you WANNA make like I. I don't care I really don't care I know. Oh what makes me happy. And that is going around the world filming in an amazing places that I would never access otherwise and that makes me so. Oh happy and that's what we're talking about really is what makes you so happy if you are pining desperately to have a child and you know. Oh that's your heart's desire good for you and have that child and love that child and feel a satisfaction. The I feel in my life. It's kind of giving me chills. I'm sitting here because this has been a really really interesting conversation. Because we in the many podcasts interviews. I've done we don't don't always drill down or half the time against the real psychology of it. So that's all I'm about. I'm just like drill down. Have the space. Have the room seem to be able to really think about what makes you happy and find that source and go with it. Ameri since our interview with maxine. I've been thinking a lot about this and here's what I want to say okay. The clearest message I want to send and to you as someone on the other side of this is that having a kid for me and for I think a lot of parents who live really full and happy lives. It wasn't an easy clear decision. I think it's normal normal to question your choice to be apparent even after you are a parent and I think we need to be real about that because while a lot of people really are positive about their feelings on this. It's the child. Free community is totally right. That there's a messed up part of our society that pretends it's not okay to not want kids or be unsure about this huge life choice. I was offensive or two which I don't talk about that much and even though my life changed in I opted into the life script. We've been talking about being a parent is still really scary. I'm not often sure I have what it takes and even if I do I'm afraid of what my kids will. Oh face on the playground and on the planet but when I wake up and take my kids out of their beds it's awesome and you know my hope every day is that this is just part of my journey as a parent. It's the cost of my choice to feel this way and at that level. I'm good with it because nine days out of ten I get my mind plum might've my these little maniacal people in my life and you don't have to become apparent to get that full heart feeling but I definitely get it from being a parent so whatever you choose to do emory. I support you because you are great. Thank you I appreciate that and I've been thinking about why you're jokes about me. Becoming apparent sometimes get under my skin. Even though I know your intentions are nothing but good and I know you. Don't get a vote in the matter. I think it's because even ingest it reinforces this idea of the life script. You know the idea that there's a path that will inevitably the follow or a pass that people at least expect me to follow. Yeah I get that and the thing is that is just not how my life has gone so far like if I had done what people expected of me or even what I expected of me. I wouldn't have gone to school where I did. I wouldn't have married or probably even met my husband and I just. I don't think I'd be making a podcast. I really don't as fun as it is but I like making things up as I go along and allowing myself to be surprised raised how happy I am with the choices. I didn't think I'd make and how underwhelmed Im sometimes with the ones. I did think I'd make and the same really goes for kids if I have them. It's going to be another thing that I did not see myself doing and like you Ben I might love it but if there's a big takeaway for me from working on this episode and having these conversations it's a much needed reminder that there is no such thing as a life script so all I know is that whether my husband and I have kids or not. We're definitely getting a dog. I Oh my God you and your husband and we'll have such cute dog's together you damn right. We will and let's thread is a production of WR BOSTON'S IS NPR station in partnership with red it Josh Schwartz's our producer. who also plans to do? A coffee. Roasting workshop in Bali as long as the policy is no stupid questions. Irish Adler is our executive producer. And if she ever here's a Bingo in the office she's like my cosmo mixed sound designed by Paul. Vikings who thinks screaming meet sirens are just forbidden snacks. Michael Pope is our advisor read. It Gilmore toddler more editing. Help from. WB You are managing producer. Cat Brewer extra production assistance from James. Lindberg our intern is Magdala. Mata Maggie's fine reactions to this episode or ideas for future episodes. Hit US up on Reddit. We are endless underscore thread. We also have an official sub. Read it now you can find that in talk to us unless thread DOT READY DOT COM my co host and producer Ameri Siebert sin senior producer and Co host. Ben Brock Johnson Dow. Let Myself Out Thanks for listening. Yeah and if you like what you heard you can find endless thread on whatever APP. You used to listen to podcasts. We got so much more where that one came from. Yeah I hope you'll check it out.

maxine trump Amy Amy Reddit Benny Ben Ameri Jason Kenya US Chris Lives BOSTON WVU Ben Brock Johnson Los Angeles Massachusetts amory Elizabeth Gilbert Bali Pacific sugars
King Of The Hill

Pop Culture Happy Hour

17:20 min | 6 months ago

King Of The Hill

"If you're looking for the next show to binge we've got a great suggestion for you. The animated sitcom king of the hill created by mike. Judge and greg daniels ran on fox from nine hundred. Ninety seven to two thousand ten and thirteen seasons are now streaming on hulu. Tell you what. The show is set in the fictional suburb of arlington texas and focuses on the hill family. Hanke propane salesman. His wife peggy substitute teacher and their son. Bobby who is one. Mary asli weird. I'm steven thompson. And i'm glen. Wilton king of the hill pokes gentle fun at its characters and their world without ever coming out and mocking them. How it threads. That needle is something. We're talking about along with answering your questions on today's episode of pop culture. Happy hour from npr. Also with us is sarah macdonald culture critic for the undefeated. Welcome back sir. Thank you so much into here. Let's start by talking about the show in broad strokes. The dad hank is voiced by mike. Judge he's deeply conservative. Fundamentally decent loyal family man who loves propane and propane accessories his wife. Peggy is voiced by the great kathy. Jimmy she's got a high opinion of herself. Enter teaching skills and bobby is voiced by pamela. Adlon a bobby is obsessed with comedy with performance which makes him a complete mystery to the deeply inhibited and easily embarrassed. Hank hank got a group of friends. He hangs out with the mumble mouthed. Boom voiced by judge a man and put a dang thing out manual. Latin up like that. Jack dangled junkie man. You go messing up my head with a dangling secondary nicotine like that man. The right wing conspiracy theorist dale voiced by johnny. Hardwick said stuff goes higher than the schools. It's at same old club. Her own zero population bulding that the n. Been trying for years and of course the sad and hilarious but really mostly sad. Bill voiced by spectacular. Stephen root at his rudest that was break-up at least that's what it was last time i ran into the house crime. There's a lot to get to but we can't start this conversation with a special mention of peggy's niece luanne who lives with the hills. Beauty is an art. It's not something you can learn in school like jam or study how she's voiced by the late great brittany movie and every time that character opens her mouth. You just get a pang of what we've lost. Stephen let me start with you. What do you like about king of the hill. Well i like just about everything. About king of the hill it has been a wonderful show to binge in pandemic times because it is eternal there are there is episode after episode after episode and over the course of those thirteen seasons while some of the characters and situations evolve a little bit. The quality really stays just about the same throughout. I think Glenn i have off off mike that it gets a little repetitive thirteen seasons. But there's a certain comfort to that that that feels consistent with the show's overall tone. I'm so impressed with how this show has done. A lot of elaborate world building for a very very very small world It is it's world building. that is very very character. Based and so as as i was taking notes on the show and kind of compiling my thoughts on the show. I just kept writing. Here's what i love about this character. Here's what i love about this character. Here's what i love about this character and they're they're just a million nuances to like two dozen different characters. Almost all of whom i like. Yeah that's the thing These are very specific. Idiosyncratic characters And if you come at this. Thinking is the mike judge of idiosyncrasy. You just gonna take potshots at conservative. Yokels there's thread of that but ultimately the focus is much narrower as you point out hank hill isn't funny. Because he's conservative he's funny because he so inhibited. And he's inherited notions of masculinity from his toxic sludge of a father and the thing that happens is that he gets better. Peggy isn't funny because moralistic. She's funny because she's self-satisfied. And bobby's just funny amen to all of that. What keeps you coming back to. This show are just letting it play through for sometimes hours at a time is just how smart. It is in the way that it looks at all of these characters. New in is sort of demonized. You know. I think the thing that i find most appealing is just the way that the relationship Sort evolves between bobby and hank in particular. Because you know. Bobby's just sort of child. Blake nece and innocence to just about anything challenges. Those inhibitions that that hank hold so dear and takes him to some unexpected places. Yeah i'm gonna call out the performance of pamela adlon as bobby here because in season two episode. Eleven it's called the unbearable blindness of laying when pank walks in on his mother and her new boyfriend voiced by the great. Carl reiner having sex. And he goes temporarily blind but the thing that's been happening up to that moment. Carl reiner character. Has been rooming with bobby and bobby picks up on the fact that he's got these. Jackie mason speech patterns you. I like you said you. I like instead of i like you. That's funny. I like the way that i like. Bobby picks up on that because bobby is fascinated by comedy and if he were exposed to those borscht belt call out to his blood. It's such a smart take and then later on in the episode reveals that he's gone temporarily blind. There's a beat of gone blind. Good lord line these gone now except and it's not that the series has often laugh out loud. Funny you agree. It's often just incredibly like you have a smile on your face from the jump. I think the volume of the show is really interesting. It does often keep a fairly even keel volume wise but then it allows certain characters usually side characters to inject jolts of energy often that comes from cotton hill. Hank hill's terrible terrible father where everything is yelled or like hank's boss hank strickland who is basically lbj. I like the fact that all the characters are just pitched at different volumes in ways that they're able to calibrate very carefully and they have there's many elements about them that are almost sort of unintentionally funny but the show is not cruel. You know one of the sort of running gags is the fact that peggy has these enormous feet as a fellow enormous. Foot woman. I just find it. Utterly hilarious the links that. She has to go through to find shoes for herself but yet everyone has their little idiosyncrasies and some of them run deeper than that mean. Bill dough tree is just an extremely pain character. You know he's been heartbroken. He's been left by his first wife. And one of my favorite episodes is when he sort of tumbles into dating and richards after hank and boom hauer decide to just sort of moon the hotel in this glass elevator that they're that they're all standing in and then it turns out that they've they've moved former texas governor and richard richard sergeant barbara bon pain. Delatour don't dream. So eddie sargent. Why may i ask. Did you moon me. Moon it anything in particular. You know. it's my birthday. And you are just as two billion cotton across by like they're just always getting into the sort of ridiculous scrapes but the thing that that usually resolves them or gets them out of them is is kindness and empathy and compassion and substance. And i think that's one of the things that that keeps me coming back to it. Is that you know you have folks who ended up in these ridiculous situations There's always an element of of earnestness about the show surprising amount of nuance. Yeah that's the thing that hits you and you wouldn't necessarily expect it from the first season or so And if you come to the series fresh and you start with the preseason just the gets a lot better The animations kinda wanna beavis and butthead level at the beginning and it kind of goes up as we go we're gonna take a short break but when we come back we'll be tackling some of your questions about king of hill so come right back. Npr's how i built this. How the one that got away lead. Justin mcleod to build the dating app hinge. And how hinge led him to the love of his life subscriber. Listen now welcome back so we asked you all to send us your questions about this show. Got some great ones producer. Mallory of the first one high pop culture happy hour. This is libby app from emma. My husband and are actually watching the hill on hulu for the first time right now. We're really enjoying it. And it's made us feel seen like no other show ever has as far as both of us grew up in small towns in the south. And it just feels so relatable so my question for you guys is what do you find funny about it and do you find it relatable. Even though you didn't grow up in a small town in the south for those of you who didn't right steve in your small town boy from the south. But let's start with you. Yeah i grew up in a small town in wisconsin and really enjoyed a lot of the small town reverberations in the show my partner katie lived in texas for a while and this show was like texas methadone for her really really it a lot of the very specific texas humor of it. But i think the show is so human vibrates on such a human frequency that even if you don't necessarily relate to it you see it and you understand it. I think this show relates small town life in a way. That doesn't have to feel personal. It feels familiar. And i think that this show grapples with small town life and really really smart ways the affair between dale spike. Nancy and john red corn. Is this open secret. That like only dale doesn't know and i think anyone who has lived in a small town even if it's not a small town in the south will feel seen by those moments ceramill you. Where'd you grow up. I grew up in a small air force town in north carolina. So you know. There are some differences between north carolina and texas. But there's a lot that feels very familiar. I think one of the other things that king of the hill stands out for to me is that it's lacking in judgment of southerners which is not something. That is always easy to come by often. You get these exaggerated. Depictions of of southerners is kind of ignorant yokels. Who are hard to understand. Why would you choices that you make one of the other things about king of the hill when it comes to small town life and it sort of gentleness even as it's kind of laying out everyone's idiosyncrasies and dysfunctions is is actually the way that It looks at the laotians family that moves in next joy to the hills. And there's this really. I think interesting conversation that's happening in this show race and class and what. It's like to be an immigrant and a tiny small southern town. I live in california last twenty years. But i come from laos Laos we ocean though ocean. What should we are lay ocean from. Laos stupid is a landlocked country in southeast asia between thailand. Okay population four. Point seven million chinese or japanese. Well we actually got a question about the super cell phones. Let's hear it. Hi my name is quincy sir. Smith and king of the hill is one of my favorite shows. Something i've really been thinking about lately though is in light of hurry. Kandebow news piece about apu from the simpsons. I'm tight chinese-american myself. And how do i feel now about toby. Hus- voicing con even the brilliantly talented lauren. Tom voicing million. Connie these are southeast. Asian american characters. And i think that the way we think about how we cast those and who gets the voice. Those has probably changed a lot. Since king of the hill. I came out and i wanted to know what you think about that. Yes i my. My main thing is Probably wouldn't cast it that we now i mean. I don't know how much more there is to say about that. What do you think yeah. It would have been preferable and more ethical to cast southeast asian voice actors in the roles not just because of desert folks who who deserve that work but also that is one of the things that that kind of protects against us sort of oral yellow face i suppose and we should distinguish the fact that lauren. Tom is asian. But you know that's kind of a huge umbrella for a vast array of countries and cultures and we recognize that laos isn't necessarily the same as korea or japan or india. I agree completely that they would cast the show very differently today. I do think at least in the scripts the fact that the show understands that there are differences between laos and other parts of asia And plays around with that and allows these characters to be deeply nuanced beyond their asian. Nece i think makes it easier to swallow but the casting that the show did in the nineties is very different from how you would cast show today for sure all right. Let's take our last question. Hello my name. Is richard seniors from columbus ohio. Either question regarding the game. Four oakdale hank bill and boom hauer if they were voting to twenty sixteen election. Who you think. Each of them would have a four well. There's only one answer here right. I mean that's the thing about the show. These people can be big and small c conservative. And you still see them for people not types. I think there's no question that dan dale either is q. Or competing with q in some weird way. Where like he would be more cute than q somehow feel that she was biting his style. I think boom our and bill. Dale unquestionably vote. For trump. i think hank hill's conservatism is much more of like. He likes a nice haircut and a perfectly tied necktie. And i think is much more of a kind of a mitt romney. Mike pence besuited kind of conservative. Where i think that would be put off by kind of the extent to which politics creeps into every single conversation. I don't think he would think that's polite. And i also see the potential for conflict between hank and peggy. Because i think hank and peggy have probably always voted the same way. I don't see peggy picking up. What trump is putting down and her like secretly canceling out his vote. So i think that's how the show would probably play with it. And that's kind of how i see the characters functioning. Yes especially in the early seasons. Dale is a conspiracy theorist that's is one of his character traits. Sorry what do you think. I'm in agreement with booth review. I go back and forth about. Hank you know i think ultimately he would just sort of hold his nose and and vote for trump because there is sort of this running aspect ratio of how much they cannot stand hillary clinton and i think there are zillion ways that hank would find donald trump odious. But with peggy. And that's the really interesting thing about their marriage rate because she is very much self actualized own person with her own ideas and thoughts and doesn't necessarily do that hank does she pushes back so yeah i could definitely see her dragging luanne with her to the polling station and being like. Don't you dare for that all right. If you could read between the lines you could probably glean that we really like the show and we think you will too. We want to know what you think about. King of the hill find us at facebook dot com slash p. c. h. h and on twitter at p. c. h. h and that brings us to the end of our show. Thanks to both of you for being here. Thank you thank you and of course thank you for listening to pop culture. Happy hour from npr. If you've got a second you're so inclined. Please subscribe to our newsletter. Npr dot org slash pop culture newsletter. And we'll see well tomorrow this message comes from. Npr sponsor ford a large chandelier dangles directly above a stationary all electric mustang mach e. It's held aloft by an intricate pulley system attached to the rear of the vehicle visit ford dot com for gravity defying display of torque.

bobby hank peggy greg daniels Hanke Mary asli steven thompson Wilton king texas sarah macdonald Bobby Carl reiner Adlon Hank hank Stephen root mike boom hauer Peggy Blake nece pamela adlon
37 A Finer Future?

GrowthBusters

1:12:31 hr | 1 year ago

37 A Finer Future?

"Google maps might get you to your aunt Helen's but it won't show you the way to a secure. An a decent future hundred eleven's has created a roadmap and she calls it a finer future next on the growth busters podcast off. Welcome to the growth busters podcast here. We discuss our societies addiction to growth. And we do our best to chart a sustainable course for human civilization because we've got a planet to save. Hi Dave Gardner Director of the documentary. Growth busters hooked John Growth and creative director at the Ad Agency of record for planet Earth. And I'm Erica. Areas Co host and Co producer of the growth busters podcast podcast for cutting edge information about our cultures unsustainable love affair with growth. And what we can do about it. Visit Growth Busters Dot Org before we get into it. Let's get into some listener feedback. All right we've got a lot of good feedback lately so I feel bad that we're not gonNA share it all but we're not so get over for it. We had a great one from Allen. Dave I dig your podcasts. Thank you for your public service. I have a beef with the American Public Blick. The most popular vehicle is a pickup with bad MPG. Probably in second place our SUV's with terrible MPG. Also so deserves an episode. Unless you've covered it already and I've missed Allen. Thanks a lot for your email and I know you meant David Erica. I dig your podcasts. So I will take credit for being dug along with my awesome co host. Erica and you'll be glad to know that Erica and I have an episode soda in the works. Maybe a couple that will address this very thing. In fact it's going to be big. The reason we haven't gotten to it is that we're doing a lot of research in pre production and we're scared to death. I think we just have to say okay. We're ready let's do it but I think you'll like it so tell you this. I'll make a promise that we'll get to it within six months for sure hopefully within a month or two instead a good plan Erica. That's a great plan. We are working really hard over here. Alan so definitely trust that we will answer your wishes very very soon agree with you. One hundred percent man all right so main event this episode of the Growth Busters podcast features a very special guest. Hunter Levens co-founder of the Rocky Mountain Institute and Co author of the Book Natural Capitalism Hunter shares with us today about at her latest book titled a Finer Future Hunter has consulted on business economic development sustainable agriculture energy water security the and climate policies for scores of governments communities and companies worldwide within the United States. She has consulted for heads of State Department of Defense Defense Energy Agencies and hundreds of state and local agencies as founding professor of the Sustainable Management Mba Program at Bard College in New York City. Hunter has devoted her career to building teams that can create an implement solutions to the problems. We face today in our fight towards a more sustainable. A stable future that's about full hunters got quite a career behind her and still ahead of her and I don't know why but I've been sitting on this interview so oh this conversation with hunter is not going to include Erica. Because you weren't quite in the fold yet. I think when I had this conversation. So what you're about to hear was recorded in February of two thousand nineteen a so. The book isn't brand new. But it's still a book that's probably worth exploring. It's called a finer future creating an economy in service to life and along with hunter. There were three other co-authors Stuart Wallis Anders wichmann probably butchering that name. And John Fullerton Stuart Wallis as you may know headed the new economics foundation from two two thousand three to two thousand sixteen and that's an organization dedicated to redefining what an economy is supposed to do. Really good I would call them a sister organization. We loved them. Hopefully they love US and John Fullerton. I am a big fan of this guy. He's a former Wall Street banker. He was managing director for J. P. Morgan and he saw the light right. Founded the Capitol Institute in Two Thousand Ten and the Capitol Institute similar to the New Economics Foundation is dedicated to a bold re imagination of economics and finance in service to life and this Guy Anders Whitman that. I'm sure I'm not pronouncing last name right. I don't know much about him. But he's a Swedish politician Titian so get that. What a combination anyway? It's an interesting book and it's time for us to share that conversation so I'm thinking without further ado. Here's David Hunter. Why Hunter thanks so much for joining me today Dave? It's my pleasure you you have three Co authors listed on a finer future when I give you a chance to tell me a little bit about your partners in crime on this. Certainly the the book grew out of a conversation. Well conversation actually began with King of Bhutan. Back in twenty twelve when he said Hunter your job is to reinvent the global economy and my reaction was me so I went in search of people who knew more more about all of this than I do and tracked very quickly into John Fullerton. John was for eighteen years at J.. P. Morgan Organ left as managing director He created a thing called Capitol Institute tried to Transform Finance and turned out to be a marvelous partner. Her in all of this along the way also tracked into Stuart Wallis. Who for many years ran new economics foundation in the UK and in has been keenly interested in this challenge of transforming the global economy and of course unders Vegan who at the time was one of the CO presidents of the the club of Rome? The club was one of the sponsors of the original book limits to growth. which basically who says you can't have infinite growth on a finite planet and that if we didn't control the growth of the economy we we would crash and burn sometime? Pretty close to now book was written back in seventy two. There are many folk in the club club. Who believe that? We've left it until too late it's over and we're going to crash and burn and a what was me and and I was arguing guys. We have all the solutions to the problems that are facing us. We know what to do. Let's go let's solve this. They said prove it and so the four of US set out to do that. Well I have to say I'm glad you did. My practice isn't to just fun over someone who it gives me an interview for growth busters. I tend to be a pretty critical audience and especially over the last few months. It's been pretty tempting to be the depressed about the news. I've been tempted to hang it up and say well we just blew it and I really started reading being a finer future with a skeptical attitude knowing what I know about you and your previous writing and your talks and the fact that you spend a Lotta time hanging out with corporate leaders and they probably wouldn't be interested in your consulting if you were just walking in the door and saying game over. I fully expected that this would have somewhat optimistic approach and I was fully prepared to come up with a list of why that that can't work but you really want me over in the in the course of the book. Shame on you. Yeah I have a little bit of hope so hopefully in the course of our conversation MM precision today. We can talk about a little bit of that but of course in one podcast conversation. We can't really convey everything that is in that book so I'm going to include a link in the show notes and encourage our listeners. To check it out and in fact will have lots of links in the show notes for example you mentioned the limits to growth that landmark mark. MIT study. That was done back in the early Seventies. If someone listening isn't fully familiar with limits to growth then you need to be and so well include a link to the limits to grow section of the Club of Rome website which is a great place to explore the results of that study online. Of course you can always. He's go to Amazon or unfortunately you probably can't find in your local bookstore. The original limits to growth book or any of the follow up books from that study. Well if you're going to go in search of it the better one to pick is beyond the limits which Dana Meadows wrote wrote in. I think it was ninety two. It's much more up-to-date. Dennis Meadows headed the forty years update to limits to growth. But there are also a lot of videos if you want the cliff notes version that give a sense of it and you'll also begin to get a sense of the split between those who feel that it's over and those of us who think that it's still worth fighting that this is a very beautiful earth and I'm kind of sentimental about this human experiment George Carlin and said Save the Earth. The earth will be fine. It'll shake us off like a bad case of fleas. What's in trouble or the humans and that is true and then a lot of other species? Yeah she's the latest news is the insect apocalypse. Were losing insects at an incredible right. And it's scaring the tar out of the scientists and rightly so without insects. Human experiment goes away pretty quickly. We're losing the rest of life at a rate unprecedented since the dinosaurs went extinct. Sorry Scuba divers business. As usual perhaps as early as 2035 there'll be no living coral reefs on planet earth and the Amazon is drying up and burning the oceans or acidifying. We are in a climate crisis. Don't do this because it will put you in a very very bad mood. But you can google near term human extinction and find what purports to be some pretty good science that says humans go extinct within about a decade okay so outfits like Dark Mountain in the UK a grieve and then get over it. It's too late so party on and I think that's the most profoundly irresponsible position that we can take the beautiful young woman. Greta Thunberg had had a lovely interview recently in the Financial Times in which she said people are telling her. Oh good. The young people are getting active. Now there's hope and she said no there isn't we're too young. We can't do this in time. It's going to take the adults. It's going to take US stepping up committing to do what needs to be done and the good news is when we do it. We will create a much higher. Quality of life will like the outcome much better. And we'll all make a lot more money. Doing what is needed solving. The climate crisis can best be done at a profit. Well there you go and you just answered my next couple of questions so I can skip ahead a little bit. Who who needs to read this book? I would hope that anyone who cares about a finer future would want to read the book again. It came out of the argument of. There's no hope and it's our effort at saying actually even though hope is not a strategy. There's a tremendous under some out that we can do that. We should be doing because it's better business because it delivers finer communities to live in. Because you will be happier in this kind of a world and because it's happening if you WANNA be a part of the new economy economy. This is what you'll be doing anyway. This is what's going to happen to you. It's what's going to happen to the businesses that you're involved false in if we get it right. We can manage a very benign transition to a finer future if we continue and you to ignore both the opportunities and the risks and the threats. The next ten years are going to be increasingly unpleasant. And we're seeing seeing this now. The hurricane this year that wiped out Mexico Beach in Florida fires last summer in California which which by the way put the largest investor owned electric utility on the North American continent now into bankruptcy. This stuff is real. And it's happening right right now and it's only going to get worse. We're on a track for well over two degree. C warming of the earth and even at one degree C and a little more which we are now about four hundred ten parts per million concentration of co two in the atmosphere. We're seeing the effects effects of the climate crisis. So it's just GonNa get worse and yes it is coming to a town near you very near future. This is your future sure and if we do two things we solve the climate crisis at a profit number one. I work with a man named Tony. CBA Tony's as a Stanford Silicon Valley entrepreneur who says inevitably for fundamental economic reasons. The world will be one hundred percent renewable powered by I. Twenty thirty. The four reasons and one business model driver are fall in the cost of solar fall in the cost of storage orage batteries. The electric car and the driverless car. The business model is transit as a service and storage as a service service after the twenty sixteen election. I want to talk to Tony. I've known him for about ten years and said okay. Now it's going to take longer or it's not going to happen. He said Oh. I'm convinced it's going to happen by twenty thirty perhaps earlier and we are right on track so I started watching fallen the cost of solar fallen the cost of storage. I'm sitting now in Colorado. We have a electric utility excel energy which for decades cades has been in love with fossil fuel coal natural gas they put out in 2017. An all source bid who can supply US eleven hundred megawatts any price any source. y'All bid they got back bids for fifty eight thousand megawatts. The lowest fossil bid was four cents. A kilowatt hour natural gas wind was a bit below two cents a kilowatt hour solar a bit above two cents wind plus solar plus storage three cents a kilowatt hour so base load. Renewable energy is now cheaper deeper than any fossil energy. These are commercial bids. This is real. It's happening the utility said no whole bid it again are cheeto and chief put some tariffs on so they did it again. Pretty much the same answer so excel I said Oh went to the PUC and said can we shut to coal plants and pledged go two-thirds renewable now why not one hundred percent percent renewable as both Hawaii and California have pledged to do. Well give them a year. This is a whole new world for electric utilities. He's the electric car. China has said they're phasing out the internal combustion engine General Motors recently announced the closure of six or or seven manufacturing facilities. Because they said we're getting ready for the electric car and the driverless car I drive a little Nissan on leaf. And I can tell you it has a fine automobile. I have beat off the line a Porsche and Mercedes. BMW A Mustang and one of those those big smoker trucks where you doing your drag racing on the streets parked at a stop light. Yeah in about four blocks they could could beat me at a top end speed but at that point they're going to have party lights in their rear view mirror. And the driverless car. They're on the road. I was in Vegas in in December and whistled up a lift and up. Comes dialog box. Would I accept an Thomas Vehicle and a yes. Yes in the event I got a driver vehicle but they are in Vegas. They're in Arizona Waymo this week announced that it starting its service of transit as a service where you little one of these things up and what you want which is to get from here to there. Costs you ten fold less less than paying to buy fuel maintain and ensure a private vehicle at a tenfold drop in cost. These things are going to sweep again. Notice no polar bears. This is not about saving the earth. This is simply a better business and again it's happening storage as a service. If you live in Phoenix Arizona public service. We'll charge you. Fifty cents a kilowatt hour for on in peak power off peak. Power is five cents so put in batteries for a couple hours a day when you got paid power but if you have batteries why not put up solar panels cut the I am just stand on your own and so an increasing number of businesses businesses are pledging to go one hundred percent renewable powered. Why because it's cheaper it's saving money? It's also more or reliable in twenty thirteen at flooded here in Colorado. We were island. My ranch wasn't flooded but we were cut off from going anywhere more than a couple of miles away. Everybody was out of power for a week. We weren't. I have solar on the ranch batteries in the garage. Elif we were just fine. This is genuine homeland security. Let me play devil's advocate here for a minute about this. Renewable Renewable Revolution Storage. Aren't there some real serious limits to storage because of the limited supply of the raw materials. Israel's that are necessary for battery storage in that a pretty toxic technology you can do batteries wrong and there is a corollary of rounder theory that there are limits to any resource that said there is a great deal of the lithium that it is now the basic building block of batteries and there are new batteries coming on the market solid state batteries which don't require lithium. There are lithium batteries that are vastly less toxic than the batteries. That are now saying your cell phone. The lithium ion batteries get hot juice. Why Airlines say? Don't put them in your checked luggage. Lithium ferrous phosphate batteries. Batteries of the sort made by a great little company out in California called simplify simplify. Phi have no cobalt in them. So they don't get hot so the Department of Defense has been using these in places like Afghanistan because they don't have a heat signature if somebody might want to shoot a heat seeking missile at. Oh you last thing you want is a bunch of batteries that get hot. So simplify and a great little company called sesame solar have been going to places like Dominica Mimika Puerto Rico Virgin Islands that were hit by Hurricane Maria and installing micro grids on schools hospitals government buildings so that people have power regardless of what the climate catastrophe does in throwing nasty storms without them. Meanwhile you the rest of American taxpayers are subsidising. FEMA to try to rebuild the coal fired grid rid in Puerto Rico. Last I checked. There isn't any coal in Puerto. Rico that means they have to import it all and indeed. Most island states have have to import the fossil energy that they use which again is. WHY HAVE I? E is said the heck with this. We have ample son. We have lots of wind. Let's go renewable now the other concern that I've heard. Is that as you write in the book about how we're starting to see some exponential growth in and renewable energy industry. It's still a very small percentage today of our total energy supply. And I hear the naysayers say say that in order for us to scale up to really be hundred percent renewable as you're talking about that we would have to burn a lot of fossil sel fuels to power that infrastructure change when we have two choices we can invest in using the fossil fuels wills to power the transition or we can continue to burn the things to party on and then they're gone either way at some point they are gone and if we have used them as an investment to power our transition. We're in a lot better shape than if we just burn. Burn them up for fun point now. The PALEY commission urged us to do this as a matter of national security in about nineteen fifty five. And if we had done it then we'd be there now like humans everywhere. We have left it until very late and so now it really is an emergency still. We have enough fossil to power this transition scientists ests from Dr Mark Jacobson at Stanford with his solutions project to Christian brier in Europe have shown that we can power the entire your world with renewables and the more renewables we have the more we use renewables to power the transition to renewables as he long. Musk is doing with his his gigafactory in Nevada as the Chinese are increasingly. Doing they have twenty of these giga factories to make batteries coming online in about twenty twenty one. Now if Tony is right and again all evidence shows that he is as we are looking at the dissolution in value probably pretty complete dissolution of oil gas coal uranium nuclear the utility the Industry the automobile industry the banks that have paper in them the insurance companies and pension funds that are invested in them. This risks being the mother author revolt disruptions. Coming at US within ten years time and this is why I say we need to manage this transition very adroitly and we need to get what about it pretty quickly. Well good point but there's an important question for you is that it problem solved. All we have to do is go one hundred percent renewable will end. nope that's about half the answer. Okay that's stops the emissions of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. That's about three quarters of what causes the climate crisis the other quarter comes from agriculture from the unsustainable way we're growing food and again the answer there turns out to be profitable. There's a man named Gabe Brown. Gabe was a North Dakota corn. Soybean farmer Moore who was going broke because he was going broke he said I'll try anything so I he went to no till farming. You stop plowing the prairie very inverting it thereby deny trying de carbonized the soil. He then started planting very deep-rooted cover crops ops about twenty eight different species of plants so he has a diversity of plants in his field and then in the winter he turns out grazing animals. Who Take the cover crops so that in the spring he can drill seed corn soybeans? Oats we so he now has a diversity of products including four or five different kinds of meat animals and grains he's wildly profitable and at the point at which he he added the animal impact he went from on some of his paddocks a little over one percent soil organic matter to now over eleven percent. That's carbon. He's taking carbon out of the air putting it back in the soil and doing so profitably. He's rolling climate change backward at a profit and gave his only one of a growing number of regenerative farmers ranchers who are practicing thing. What's called holistic management? A technique developed by Allan Savory Allan Savory proved that the way the world's grasslands lambs became the second largest carbon sink honor after the oceans is that they co evolved with fast just herds of bison in this country elk deer in Africa. wildebeest gazelles across Asia. The Sega antelope all dense packed because of predators. If you're about to get eaten by a wolf or a lion the safe place to bees in the middle of the herd so everybody's trying to get into the middle of the heard. They eat everything. Their hooves chop up the soil. They fertilize it and then they move Yvonne to find new grass. They don't come back until the grass has really grown and along the way this co evolution Lucien of grazing animals and grass puts carbon into the soil. It does so because when grazing animal eats grass. The Roots Slough polysaccharide sugars. Those sugars feed the microbiological community in the soil. Particularly Michael Rizal Fungi. That's what mineralized the carbon. That's coming in from the sugars from dead plant material from the manure of grazing the animals. and that's what builds up the thick black soil that the pioneers found when they first came across the Great Plains that black is is carbon. Young coal if you will and it's now mostly all gone. The UN says business as usual humanity he has maybe sixty more harvests before soil loses the ability to produce food. Because we're treating it like dirt sterilizing it. We're poisoning it with chemicals. were running over it with machines. So people like West Jackson at the Land Institute and Dan Joel Salatin at Pauley. Face Farms Will Harris at white oak pastures down in bluffed. Georgia are pioneering this new way of using pireno crops West has produced a perennial wheat called Kerns a that has roots maybe ten feet deep that take nutrients nutrients deep into the soil. Where you have these crops? You don't need fertilizer. You don't want pesticides herbicides their cost and they just kill all the beneficial plants and insects. That are taking the nutrients out of the air nitrogen carbon and putting it back into the soil. So your costs go down. You now are able to sell much healthier food. People are even willing to pay more more for it. You're now profitable. So if you go visit will down at White Oak pastures you'll see the little town of Bufton Georgia which had been decaying paying and being covered by Kudzu is now coming back to life. Buildings are being rebuilt because we'll hires one hundred and thirty seven people apple to run whiteout pastures. His neighbor commodity peanut farmer has exactly the same acreage that will does two thousand five hundred acres but he employs four people so this is community economic development as well as the solution to the climate crisis it also as a Sheva says is the solution to the health crisis the crisis in democracy. It's a holistic solution. It's all as many problems while it enhances our profitability and you write in the book about this being a significant amount of carbon capture and storage storage. My sense of things is that the scientists out there are really counting on significant carbon capture and storage for us to survive the climate crisis. And I have been pretty skeptical about coming up with some new technology just suck carbon out of the air and pump it into caverns caverns beneath the surface of the earth. But you've written about something here that really gives me hope that carbon capture and storage of this variety. He can really be a significant part of the solution. It's an enormous amount of carbon that the grasslands of the world have already he pulled out of the air and hold in them and we can dramatically increase that so for example Gabe increased carbon in the soil eleven eleven fold just by using animal impact. Dr David Johnson at New Mexico State University uses a different technique. Nick he takes dairy manure which is now waste composts with greenway tree trimmings grass cuttings and turns earns it into almost a fungal inoculate Michael Rizal inoculate which he spreads on ground. He gets uptake of up to fifteen tons per acre per year at a ton per acre per year on the world's grasslands over thirty years time we would get back to two eighty parts per million concentration of co two in the atmosphere. So we know how to to suck the carbon out of the air put back in the soil profitably now. What some of the scientists are toying with is called direct air capture it? It costs one hundred dollars a ton of carbon pulled from the air thousand dollars a tonne. It's hideously not cost effective. We ought to try the simple cheap solutions. I and while we're doing revitalize rural community Mother Nature Mother Nature knows best. Yeah she bats last and owns the ball and the bat and the ballpark. Let's talk a little bit about something you write about in the book. This handy handy study which I wasn't familiar with first of all. I wonder I couldn't find the study and I was wondering whether you know. Is there a link to it somewhere on the internet or is it invisible to us. I can certainly send you a link to it was very controversial because it scared the tar out of people. It was a study funded by NASA done by some applied. Mathematicians its full name is human and nature dynamics study it looked at the history of collapse. Throughout humanity's time on earth found that that it's actually pretty common when it happens it lasts for hundreds to thousands of years. You really don't like it. And and they found it's driven by one or both of two things you over run your resource base or you have high levels of inequality. Hello we both. The Oxfam studies have shown things like eight men have as much wealth as the bottom half of humanity and inequality is increasing because of an ideology. A story story that we have fallen prey to the story is called Neo Liberalism. forty-seven Europe's in Ruins Ludwig. Von mises is appalled old but national socialism has done to trash Europe Milton. Friedman believes that the individual is the only legitimate economic actor. That's some assumptions which turn out to be bad science so for example they were firmly. Convinced that we're all greedy bastards. But that's okay. They said because markets are perfect and imperfect market. You against me will somehow expurgate to the greater good for all no it won't it hasn't as the inequality statistics show. It has brought humanity to the edge of a cliff. Live is my old boss. Dave bowers said when you're standing at the edge of a cliff the only progressive move is to turn around and then take a step forward and so we we need a new story. The scientists are telling us that we're not greedy bastards if you look at the archaeology the evolutionary biology anthropology panther apology. When pre-humans came down out of the trees in Africa we were naked are claws are worth much? Our teeth are pretty inadequate inadequate. Were not as fast as a lion. Our ancestors served five. And thus you and I are here today having this conversation because because they not only had a bond to acquire and then defend this we share with all animals but they drive to bond they cared about each other. We know this because the archaeology shows and the DNA shows that our ancestors cared heard for disabled people they cared for the elderly. One of the early skulls is of an old man who had no teeth eighth. His teeth had fallen out and he was old that meant that he could not have cared for himself alone. It's not up the survival of meanest bastard. It's the survival of the best adapted as Darwin actually said and it turns is out the best adapted. Are Those who care for each other those who have community and say the anthropologists the other drive that we have is to tell story we create meaning and the meaning that we created in neoliberalism. The dead end. It's Blind Canyon. We need to turn back and craft new story of what it means to care for each other and care for creation care for our earth and care for our future and when we do this we find that we have meaning in our life. Life's worth living. It's worth sharing. This is why we love facebook. It's why we love getting together in a pub and having a drink with people we don't even know it's why we a strike up conversations with strangers. It's why we're curious about things that are different than us. And if you put all of this together with the principles principals for example of what John Fullarton has called regenerative capitalism. You get a very different economic system. One that lives within the planetary boundaries that is based on the Bio mimetic principles of things like in nature the most abundant ecosystems. uh-huh are where there is diversity. It goes back to ancient spiritual teachings of harmony and of balance in life it recognizes. That money is useful. But money's not wealth it's not well being and it takes care of of place of community. We can have a vibrant global economy. I'm very fond of Scottish whisky. We make great whiskey here in Colorado. But I'm happy to trade for Good Scotch so long as every place both the communities in Scotland and and the communities here in Colorado retain their integrity and these principles of what is now coming to be called regenerative economics. Just make a lot more sense than the cheater capitalism that we've been practicing so that what you call cheater capitalism. I guess just the two main things that are working against us there is one. It's obsession with GDP growth and then the other is its side. Effect of economic inequality quality what is GDP met named Simon Cookson. That's created it to try to understand national accounts tracking of money throughout an economy because Lewis was very clear this is not a good measure of human woman wellbeing but we have taken it to become that so if a divorcing cancer patient gets in a car wreck she will add to the GDP medical bills and lawyer bills and car repair bills. Is She any better off clearly. Not If that that same woman stays home and takes care of her ailing father and her children and volunteers in the local community. It does nothing adding to increase GDP but she and her parents her kids. The whole community are vastly better off. We need a new metric trick of what it is that we actually want. More of growth is not necessarily a bad thing. I think the question his growth of what for example a team of US built a little exchange traded fund. This is a thing you can buy on. The New York Works Stock Exchange. It's an investment vehicle. You want to know more about it. CHECKOUT CHANGE FINANCE DOT com. It's very very high environment. Social good governance standards so it's the best companies that you can own hundred large Cap American companies and I want to grow the heck out of that thing. I want people to take their money out of fossil stocks and put it into to clean companies. If the New York Common Fund head divested from ownership in fossil stocks. Ten years ago ago they would have made seventeen point five billion dollars more than they did. Owning fossil stocks turns out not to be a great investment so we need growth in things like solar energy the use of it. We need growth in happiness in an educated citizenry citizenry. We need more art and culture and music here in Colorado. There was a ballot initiative in the November election which would have limited hydraulic fracturing breaking the earth. Apart to try to get more natural gas it failed because in the end the oil companies put thirty million dollars into telling everybody that the extractive industries are the basis of Colorado prosperity. This is the basis of our jobs. We need these industries and the measure lost afterward. The word I thought. Is that really true. So my natural capitalism solutions started doing some research. What is the Colorado are we Konami? It turns out the boulder natural foods industry is already bigger than all of conventional agriculture in the state. Wow the outdoor industries is four times the size of all extractive industries oil gas coal timber mining conventional agriculture. Clean Tech is almost as big as oil and gas in terms of revenues number. A number of jobs created. And it's going up while oil and gas are declining if you put all of what might be called the more regenerative industries together. There's a much bigger economy already in Colorado than the extractive industries. But nobody knows this side of the story so this is what a group of us are now. Doing we have created what's called a regenerative communities hub in the Denver Boulder the area. This is a system that John Martyn has put together with these hubs being created around the world there seven seven of them up and running and forty more that Wanna come into effect and we will be looking at what will take to build a truly regenerative economy here along the front range in Colorado. Is this hub. Something that a listener can join. Join or business conjoint. Or how does it work short checkout region communities DOT net. The Webmaster will give you permission to come come in and you can see what these hubs are doing. And you can create one of your own their hub starting up in Costa Rica various places in in Europe Australia across the United States. And this is another thing that we need to grow a lot more of community engagement intruments and people building sustainable locally based economies. Well that's good stuff now. You wrote about the millions of of jobs in clean energy and actually not just in clean energy but in this regenerative agriculture as well and I found myself thinking well. That's definitely a the better place for us to have jobs but will we survive. If each of those jobs is a family that then spends that income flying to their vacation nation home in Florida or Phoenix and living the quote unquote. Good Life. We definitely need to rethink what. What the good life is the way in which humanity is trampling? The Earth will stop Dennis Meadows says when something is unsustainable that means it will stop either we stop it because we find better ways to fulfil ourselves and we come to live lives of greater equity lives that are within the planetary boundaries or it will stop because we all become very miserable and die there are now sixty seven million refugees fleeing failed states. Places where it's gotten too hot to conduct agriculture where culture civil wars religious tensions. This can get much worse or we can use the sustainable. The approaches to begin solving these problems. What we spend now on makeup would pay for reproductive health care? The world rolled around what we spend. Buying bottled. Water would pay for clean water the world around three times over. There's plenty of money we're just not spending ending it very wisely. The fans of artificial intelligence. Now tell us that within about ten in years time forty percent of jobs as we know them today will disappear. Just the autonomous vehicles will put out of work eight eight million of today's drivers the General Motors choice to shut down its Lordstown. Ohio manufacturing MM facility may turn that town into a ghost town. We literally are going to have to reinvent everything about our economy. The best proposal I've seen comes out of some economists Randall. Ray At the Bard College Levy Center it's called guaranteed jobs and it's now being picked up in things like the green new deal. Several of the presidential candidates are talking about got it. The idea is the government pays any nonprofit or I believe local government possibly even small business however much they can usefully deploy putting people to work doing the jobs that we need so we need more elder care. That's something a robot will do badly. We need more child care. We need more restoration of damaged. Ecosystems the systems there are a lot of jobs that are needed in society. It's just the Dr Cheater. Capitalism is my friend Randy Hayes calls. It won't won't pay for it today. So let's start paying for what we want. More of and pruning away the industries that that no longer service and choosing intentionally what kind of a world we wanna live in again wherever this has been done the evidence is it makes you happier. It makes you wealthier. It gives you a higher quality of life life it leads to better communities. I'd say let's give it a go before it's too late. Great example of how this book really is a great great throat map showing us the positive way into the future. I'd like to ask you one last question hunter because it's something that not very many people write about. You didn't avoid the population subject. And I WANNA thank you for including that in the book and just give you a chance to maybe explain this very important point when it comes to human population. Trend is not destiny. Not only is trending not destiny. This is a matter of choice. Dr Malcolm Potts. It's scientists that the University of California Berkeley School of Public Health showed years ago. That if we do five things population then growth goes to zero. We achieve Z.. PG Zero population growth and we have happier healthier families this wherever this is done. The five things are first of all you feed people you end hunger second you reform land land tenure so that poor people have a bead to the piece of ground they're sitting on this enables them to enter the capitalist system they can take out a mortgage they have a business address they also have security in their lives third. You Educate People Particularly Women Emon fourth you give information about and fifth access to contraception. You enable women to choose when they have choice. Women tend to limit their families. There's no coercion. It's just just the way they would prefer to be if they know their children are going to survive into old age if they have the knowledge to have a job if they have again security of tenure in their home they have smaller families. My friend Ashok Khosla. Oh slow who runs. A great group called development will turn it gives found that if he creates little businesses in villages that hire women give the high quality job with a high quality wage. They delay having children until they're in their late twenties early thirties. This eliminates ten generations. Who otherwise would've been born? The women tend to have one or two children. They do a much better job of taking care of them and you have a much healthier community society and you don't have the challenges of overpopulation which are plaguing us now. Can I cheat and ask you one last question. Certainly I meant to ask you this at the top of the conversation and we just kinda got onto a different track under you hang out with political leaders and business leaders around the world and I just WanNa know D- do they get it. Do they understand. Stand that we're in overshoot and that we are facing potential civilizational collapse. If we don't really reinvent ourselves it obviously depends to whom you're speaking. Some of them know this very well but they are trapped in a system. Where are they are rewarded for? Not taking risks. This is particularly true in government but it's also true in most corporations tenure of a typical. CEO is three four years. You've Claude your way to the top of the food chain. You are personally rewarded again. Because of this idiocy of Neo liberalism the belief in the primacy of shareholder value with stock which has to be at its height at the point at which you retire. Or you're not gonNA get your payout so you do. What folk like Jack Welsh? Did you fire a lot of people. He was the. CEO of General Electric drove stock to an all time. High Certainly. Didn't help any of those people people you don't take risk because Oh my God the stock might go down so this is why I revere business business leaders like Paul polman just retired from Unilever so he can devote himself more to working with things like the team the elders the U. UN within a week of becoming CEO at Unilever. He said we're not going to report. Quarterly stock fell ten percent. He he said I respect you as human beings those of you who have sold. But if you think I can best manage your asset on a ninety day rotation I don't want what you as my owners Unilever stock then went to all time highs. And then the raiders came round Kraft Heinz Three not Warren Buffett saying Oh this is a friendly offer and it was very clear what they wanted to do was the same thing they had done at their companies fire. A lot of people cut all of the sustainability programs that Paul had put in place. It took pole twenty four hours to say no. And so it's rather pecan right now to watch the collapse of craft hines and Warren Buffett. Saying I think I made a mistake. Combining those two companies the companies that commit to behaving more sustainably are the ones who are doing better. And we find this with our investment philosophy if you behave responsibly to people and planet you cut your risks. You cut your costs you're better able to attract and retain the best talent. You better differentiate your product lines unilever found for example that its purpose driven brands when they started on this. They had seventeen of them out of the several hundred brands. They had were delivering sixty percent of their profitability. They were the fastest growing brands so they said to all of their brands. Go Find Your authentic purpose when you engage people particularly young people when they have a say in how. They're doing their job when they are able as part of their day. The job to be implementing more sustainability. This is what gives you the higher productivity of labour and that then delivers there's higher profitability engaged workforce's have eighteen percent higher productivity sixteen percent higher profitability again. Dan This is just better business so this is what we teach for example at the Bard NBA. Where I teach in which sustainability is woven into every class we teach? It's not a bolt on. It's not an elective. It's the way we teach how to do accounting or strategy. I I think it's going to turn out better business leaders. Well Hunter. Thanks so much for this conversation. Hate to bring it to a close. We could have taken a deep deep dive down any of the avenues that we got into. But we'll save those conversations for another time if you'd like to have the last word any final thoughts thanks to all of you who listen to this podcast. Thanks for caring what you do. The choices you make in your life are what will determine the future of humanity and Dave. I'm deeply grateful to you for all the work that you've always done and I'm grateful to your listeners. That they take the time and that they care care together we can build a finer future. Wow I really missed out on such a stimulating conversation. Hunter really earns the title Heidel for being Newsweek's green business icon. Well I'm sorry you didn't get too involved in that. I do think very highly of hunter I will admit I don't know whether you you could tell from the interview but I'm not one hundred percent in lockstep with her. I think the gist of the book is that we aren't doomed. And the things we need need to do to get our system tuned up and back in sustainable balance with nature are actually profitable and I would expect that kind of message from hunter because she spends almost lost all of her time and energy advising top management of big companies so that keeps her nonprofit going and it also is really doing a good service. I mean we really really do. Need the big companies of the world to be rethinking. Their bottom line rethinking their goals and trying to find the cure for growth addiction trying trying to operate with more sustainable moral code and a little bit less of a profit maximization code so that's a good thing in hunters found a way to speak their language. Yeah and she says that we are already in the process of seeing a one eighty global shift in our energy the an economic infrastructures. And she points that. This isn't because people are interested in saving the polar bears or saving our environment necessarily. But it's really more about being better business and that makes sense because she's speaking to people who live and breathe Steve Economics and business and all things that I do not projections about the complete. Dissolution of nonrenewable by by twenty thirty. Sounds a little bit like Andrew McAfee and what he says about how eventually in developing nations will be demanding more technology and that we're going to willingly provide access to these technologies because we want to see them become richer and in a sense I would like to see an end to mass human suffering but the amount of power needed to make a significant impact is immense and and I think that ultimately it comes down to one thing significant cultural and shifts well. I'm glad you brought that up because we definitely need those. I do not think that we can make the move to sustainable human civilization simply by doing a good business. We're going to have to really rethink things. And we've got a definitley rethink our whole approach to the economy. If we stay addicted to robust economic growth will never be able to get the infrastructure in place to provide renewable energy to power just like you said to power that huge economy and a continually growing economy. Plus we're not going to solve all the other sustainability challenges she's not just climate change shifting to renewables and finer future really is all about reducing carbon emissions and that's certainly important but shifting to renewables doesn't do anything for us in terms of depletion of fertile soils to certification the the fact that we're pumping major rivers and offers dry and driving other species off the planet. Those things will require us to do something else and that is is really get serious about addressing the problem we have with the just the sheer scale of the human enterprise which is both our economy and our population relation right while said we can have all of these new policies and new technologies to solve the problems. We have today but we're bound to repeat history if we don't take responsibility for the way that we're living this means a reexamination of our definition of success. What it means to lead a meaningful life ideas about family size and thinking more about where and how we are investing our money? Yeah yeah good point. Good that she is speaking the language of people who are pulling really big levers and hopefully moving them in the right direction but there's a lot of work to be done and I was curious about what you thought when hunter and I did talk a little bit about population and she seemed to feel like if we can get zero zero population growth in that solves the population side of the equation. Yeah you know I agreed with a lot of what hunter had to say about without giving women the freedom to choose what to do with their bodies. I am and have been for a very long time in advocate for women's reproductive rights. Hi and I really liked that she. Also referenced Dr Malcolm Potts at UC Berkeley who has made some really positive contributions as the former armor chair of the Bixby Center for Population Health and sustainability. They're dedicated to research aimed at achieving slower population growth and and addressing. The unmet need for family planning in some of the world's poorest nations so just knowing Dr Potts's work I agree with everything she had to say about from his five ways to achieve Z.. PG We can agree on that but it's also a downstream solution. We really need to define what it means to be a family today. I sound like a broken record but I don't think that we can achieve zero population. Any demographer will tell you that it's never stable. It's constantly fluctuating. And the reason it fluctuates is because people change every single day and I want to see some bigger changes some bigger cultural shifts when it comes to establishing bonds and what it means to bring life into the world. I don't want to continue to see. This marriage equals two point five children white picket fence living the good life. The idea continue to exist. Because that's just not sustainable all important points but what you've left unsaid. Tell me if you disagree but I'd be shocked. D- Did Bain hang up with that. Is that just ending. Population growth doesn't solve the problem. When you are way overpopulated so here we are? It was seven point seven billion people on the planet. There is no way the entire population of the earth is going to be willing to live simply enough that seven point seven billion. Some people aren't destroying our life supporting ecosystems so our population has got to contract back to a lower level that will match up in some kind of sustainable balance with a decent life that everybody's entitled to love the Best Science that we have on that is we're looking at a target of two billion people are probably under three billion anyway so Z.. PG's zero population growth that basically kinda freezes us even if we're fluctuating a little bit plus or minus if we're hovering around seven point seven billion. We're pretty well sunk. We need to get back down to two or three billion people and then fluctuate a little bit around that. Yeah Yeah and she also didn't make the distinction between national population growth versus global population growth. I mean we're already seeing breath declines in a number of countries around the world. But that's still not enough you and I would say that's a good thing. That's a positive thing that people are having less babies but that's only in a number of countries that it needs to be lower even in the countries where we're making progress. We can't say mission accomplished because when you're a seven point seven billion and your planet is crumbling ambling beneath your feet we need let our population shrank as fast as possible. So we got work to do whether you're living in a country where the fertility facility rate is one and a half or living in a country where the fertility rate is five. You got work to do either way right. I do want to make a note. I know hundred mention the fracking ballot initiative in the November election. And because here we are sharing this interview interview after November of two thousand nineteen people might think she's talking about something that was in November two thousand nineteen election and because we recorded the conversation last a strawberry. She was talking about the November. Two thousand eighteen election. Just for clarification for that. Well I'll just say one last thing about Hunter Levin's very smart lady and she's got a mind like a file cabinet. She's got a good grasp of a lot of facts that all support very well the points that she's trying to make which are good points. Yeah She's really a pleasure to listen to and I hope to have her. You're on the show again. I you want to go ahead and share a video I came across it is tidal Greta. Thunberg and George Monte hot make short it film on the climate crisis. This is not a drill. My name is to bury. We are living in the beginning beginning of a mass extinction. Our climate is breaking down. Children like me giving up their education to protests. But we can still fix this. You can still fix this. It is that simple protect restore you can be part of this vote for people who defend nature savage video talk about this. All around. The world are mazing movements fighting for nature. Join everything counts what you do counts. Well that's pretty interesting a great video. I'm a fan of both Greta. And George Harrigan I don't agree with everything that George says and beliefs but pretty sharp guy right. He's the columnist that the UK Guardian writes about good subjects. And I gotTa thank him for that. The thing that bugged me a little bit about the video was toward the end. Greta I think says it's that simple. They say protect restore fund and then she says it's it's that simple and I just want to say well we definitely want to protect restore and fund. They're talking about protecting the nature. That will be a big part of the solution. That'll suck a lot of carbon out of the atmosphere but just like I said when I mentioned that solving climate change doesn't do the whole job of getting human civilization back into sustainable balance with nature. Same thing here. It's not that simple. It's a lot more complicated. Yeah we need to protect restore and fund but we need to do a lot of other things to like get over our love affair with economic growth and live more simply and find ways to really embrace smaller families so that our population can contract back to sustainable levels. So that's not simple. I mean it's all Oh doable. But the streaming video doesn't cover the whole story. It's a great video. Start everything usually when we see Greta. She's he's really throwing out the facts that you when she's talking it's not easy she's mad. She's mad maybe it's a new strategy. She is using thing to get more people to listen. Because sometimes I think I mentioned maybe in a few episodes prior sometimes when we use extreme language like the climate crisis for example that might just scare people together but when you present things and a less critical manner it might make people feel a little little bit more able to take on these challenges. Well that's probably a lot of the reasoning behind that book a finer viner future. I think the jury's out I don't think we know Anna fact I'll tell you what I changed my mind probably twenty times a day about that. Sometimes I think I think people do need to feel like there's some promise and then sometimes I think you know what we really need to tell them. You are just a few years away from the apocalypse. Up's the time for little baby. Steps is gone. It is an emergency at some point. You have to yell fire so that everybody can run from the auditorium Toryism but there are a lot of people saying no no no. Don't yell fire because everybody else freeze. They'll be paralyzed with fear and do nothing. I don't know I don't think anyone one has the full answer on that right so you asked me. I think we do a pretty good job of it I know at times. I'm pretty quick to in your words. Dave fawn over some of our guests. And think wow they do have the answer. They're doing some really great things and it does. It makes me feel more. We're hopeful but I'm also glad to have you here at the end of the day keeping me stable and I think we have a pretty good balance of that here at the show. I'm just going to take take a risk here and circle back to that conversation with hundred eleven's and the Book Finer Future and recommend read the book. Take it in and get your hope going but then I want you to check out from the library or order. This book by Ozzy Center called Green illusions and will include a link in the show notes. And I want you to watch a new film when it finally comes to a theater near you sometime in two thousand twenty called planet of the humans because if he read green illusions and you see the movie planet of the humans you will have gotten both sides of the story. You'll have gotten the rosy optimistic picture from a finer future and you will get the brutal. What I'm afraid is probably the cold hard truth from planet of humans and Green Allusions and then you can decide for yourself whether you want to sit there and paralysis or party down with the titanic or decide to live and elegant life with integrity and do do your best to leave some thin ray of hope for your children our future generations? If you don't have any children to have a decent life. I like that all right that brings to the end of another amazing podcast about sustainable. Living growth busters with Eric Garner. Thanks so much for listening and be sure to visit growth busters dot org to explore these issues more thoroughly and because this is the end of the year. It's the time when everyone everyone has the spirit of giving I want to encourage you to give a little bit to this project appreciate. What we're doing? This is a nonprofit project. Basically run on fumes year round you can click on the donate button. That growth busters dot org and help us out. Thank you so so much to our listeners. If you have any questions comments suggestions or just want to say hi. Don't forget to write to us. That's right podcast. At growth busters dot org is the email address. Take care to lose to pay broadcast Jesse Wa. But they don't WanNa think bigger is better and the cost of the weather. uh-huh robust AH.

United States David Hunter Colorado Dave Europe David Erica New Economics Foundation Capitol Institute John Fullerton Tony Dr Malcolm Potts Dennis Meadows Unilever New York City California managing director
Shades of Green

The Pulse

48:51 min | 2 years ago

Shades of Green

"Supporting WHYY Penn Orthopaedics with advanced treatments for hip and knee arthritis and a personal patient. Navigation team the Penn Orthopaedics approach to joint pain is designed to help get you back to enjoying life. Again. More at Penn medicine dot org slash joints support. For this podcast comes from Wells Fargo, helping adults in Philadelphia's underserved communities launch new careers in banking through Bank works a free job training program with more than two thousand graduates nationwide. More at stories dot W, F dot com slash Pennsylvania. Major funding for the pulse is provided by a leadership gift from the Sutherland family charitable fund. The Sutherland support WHYY and its commitment to the production of programs that improve our quality of life. I recycle. I use paper bags. I pedal bicycle many people like to think of themselves as green I bar new house, and it had a concrete backyard, and I had the concrete torn out or pretty green. I do recyclable bags. However, we end up throwing them away a little green. I would say that. I definitely try to do my best. But how much are we really willing to give up for the environment? I wouldn't give up flying. I still wanna go. Visit my grandma I'm Mike and Scott, and this is shades of green and earth. Stay special from the pulse at WHYY. Every day each one of us makes hundreds of choices big and small that impact the environment. The size of our homes would food. We eat how we travel during this hour, we'll explore who chooses what? And why they're sort of an image out. There of you know, you're lefty tree hugging liberal, and then the greedy person on the right ready to to bulldoze the forest in order to put up a parking lot or something. But the reality is that those two extremes are actually fairly rare being green is more of a spectrum says political scientist, Jennifer Benz, she does public affairs research at the Associated Press. She found that people are motivated by different things we talked to just over fifteen hundred Americans and nationally Representative sample, and we asked them a whole series of questions. So, you know, everything from how? How connected they feel to nature. How often they engage in outdoor activities to understanding how they deal with issues when they're, you know, religious views might conflict with what the science and the data are saying, Jennifer and her team, analyzed all of this information, and they came up with nine different categories that reflect people's attitudes like religious greens middle of the roaders disengaged, outdoor non greens. Let's talk about some of the types that you found out there, and one of the groups you found were the so called liberal greens. So are those kind of like the tree huggers sort of? So the the liberal greens is a category of people it makes up a little bit less than ten percent of the population overall, and these are people who really identify with environmental issues there. You know? Highly likely to consider themselves and self identify as an environmentalist, but they're not necessarily people who directly engage with the environment. All that often more than any other group, we found they tend to live in cities, they aren't particularly likely to engage in outdoor activities. So they might buy shade grown coffee from whatever and organic grocery store, but they don't go out hiking. Right. Exactly. Yeah. They they are also the ones who are more likely to buy energy efficient light bulbs and use reusable shopping bags keep their thermostat adjusted in a way. That's that's the most energy efficient. Jennifer says generally speaking, they found a lot of nuance in people's believes, and the different types might have a lot more in common than you might think. Take for example, Matt Vincent in Montana. He loves being out. Doors, but he doesn't identify with the label environmentalist. He somebody Jennifer might put into the outdoor non green category. We went fishing with him. Going through on the north Bank of black tail creek above its confluence with silver bow creek, which is the headwaters of the Clark's fork of the Columbia. We've had a little bit of the spring fever with with the long winter almost behind us and decided to come down and try and catch a few fish. I met Vincent from beauty merica Butte being a a mining city and a lot of that mining having taken place before such things as environmental regulation. There's a lot of impacts on this stream a lot of them have been cleaned up. A lot of them still have to be addressed that pose additional impact heavy metals ph acid mine runoff issues, he cut out all the political BS. I I think deeply about the environment and wanna preserve it to be. Able to do the things I enjoy doing when I'm outside. And I want my kid and his kids and their kids to be able to do the same to. But in this world of media, manipulation and politics environmental list, and environmentalism has become a a dirty word so to speak in some ways, I think people in Butin places like Butte, even though the first thing you see when you when you come over that continental divide heading west is this unbelievably scarred landscape is we might have a better understanding and interaction with the environment than than most places. Then I think just be an out and interacting at all is more important than than anything else. That's mad Vincent from Montana. I'm Mike in Scott. This is shades of green and Earth Day special from the pulse. Think about all of the decisions you make every day. Grab a to go Cup of coffee on the way to work use public transportation or drive to the office by organic apples or not some people think about environmental impact in their decision making and their carbon footprint. They want to do something about climate change. But really how can one person stop it from happening or reduce it when there are seven billion other people also contributing to it pulse. Environmental reporter Irena jour of is in the studio now with some options. Hey irena. Hi, Mike Allen, I Renault you think about your own carbon footprint and use struggle with what to do about this. Right. I do. And because we love things to be easy. I've been looking into a relatively cheap way to temper carbon emissions that doesn't require me. Actually, you know, changing my lifestyle too much. So I step I made a call to Marissa's dibella. Check check one two three. Okay. I am recording. I had to confess something to her. So I made a list of all MyTravel for twenty seventeen. I had a flight Philly toss Vegas LA back to Philly. I flew roundtrip to Vancouver falling all Iraq up about fifteen thousand miles of air travel, plus about sixty five hundred miles by car and most of that travel was related to your reporting on the environment. Yes. And it all adds up to about ten tons of carbon dioxide. So that's one of the greenhouse gases produced by burning jet fuel or your car's exhaust it traps. Even that miss fear and drives climate change the average American emits seventeen tonnes of carbon pollution into that misfire every year. Okay. So you were actually lower than the average. Yeah. But my ten tonnes were just for major travel. So that didn't include my housing my food my day to day transportation stuff. I buy which comes from, you know, energy, hungry factories. So I asked Marissa about her out, but I traveled quite a bit. So twenty for the year. I recycle I try to bike as often as fossil rather than the car. But I'm still going to fly to here in California. So going fly to New Jersey to see my mother for Christmas. You know? You know? Not willing to give that up, but Marissa's there is a way to make up for some of these carbon sessions, you know, at least for people who are already sort of carbon conscious. She's the CEO of cool effect. It's a company that invests in projects that reduce the amount of carbon that ends up an atmosphere. It's a way to sort of counter or neutralize what carbon. You couldn't avoid putting out there. All right. So if I if I give them my money where will it go? So your money goes towards developing projects that reduce greenhouse gases in our atmosphere. It's called a carbon offset. I talked to Kelly Hamrick about this. She analyzes carbon offset markets. She says since climate change is a global problem. It doesn't really matter where reductions of carbon dioxide happen. You've got places in the world. Usually, you know, more developing countries where they might use just like indoor fires to cook. Their food has a lot of really terrible effects on the family breathing in all that smoke on the environment. Also like the type of fuel that's. Hughes sometimes that causes deforestation nearby. So for example, one company I spoke with they've invested donors money in developing a clean, cook stove building it and distributing it to women in Honduras, but there's lots of different projects. So carbon-offset money helped expand the wind turbine project in Oklahoma in New York. There's a landfill that. Now has a quick moment to catch. It's methane guests in Peru. There's a project to protect the forest Kelly estimates that in two thousand sixteen these kinds of projects helped reduce carbon dioxide by about sixty million tonnes. Okay. But that same year globally. We omitted more than thirty billion. That's with the be tons of carbon. It's a drop in the bucket. So these kinds of voluntary offsets take care of less than one percent of what we met globally, what motivates people to do this? Well, let's talk about companies. I the ones that choose to do it. You know, maybe they believe in being responsible or maybe it's. Marketing for them. They get to say, we're clean. We care about the planet, for example, Ben and Jerry's ice cream. They buy offsets. Their whole image is one of a company that cares about the planet. Just listen to this video they put out in support of a UN climate summit, featuring gooky melting ice cream. This is what happens when ice cream is just two degrees warmer than it should be. For Ben and Jerry's. It's a mess for the planet. It's a metaphor. And then for individuals, I talked to a guy named Walter Monckton. He lives in New York and has been buying carbon offsets for the past six or seven years, and I talked to him from home. We are both snowed in in. He said that he buys offsets because he sees it as his personal responsibility. Been corporations are meeting cardiac or power plants or meeting. Happen. It's because of the way we live and the way we live a comfortable as not lasted me that we're talking during a big storm in warm houses, meet at least on a fancy, computer. So. Was there like a sense of guilt associated with your lifestyle in our? What can we as individual do? He drives a Prius recycles keeps us. House insulated doesn't overheat. But no matter what he's still putting out carbon buying. Point buying indulgences back in the medieval era, the difference being buying indulgences didn't work. I don't think he's got you into heaven, but buying carbon credits does work as long as using reputable empty, so I mean, if I'm buying one of these carbon offsets, how do I know it's going to a good project. How do I know? It's really making a difference. Yeah. I mean, you kind of have to do your homework you're looking for something called additionality. And what that means is a given project would not have happened without the money people are paying to reverse their carbon emissions and this gets tricky because like any development project often they'll have lots of sources of funding. And you're like is this actually additional, you know, sometimes it gets harder to make that case having looked into this does this seem like a very effective way of reducing your carbon footprint. I mean it works. It's a small scale. And I'm kind of left wondering how much more effective actual comprehensive? Government policy would be at reducing how much carbon ends up an atmosphere. But you know, we don't have that yet. All right. So are you going to buy some of these carbon indulgences? Yeah. I settled on a clean cook stove project in Uganda. It costs six dollars four cents a ton. And I'm going to buy ten tons ten tons, all you travel, all my pulse reporting. I feel like the pulse should be paying for this. Thank you. Thanks, mike. People make choices green or not for different reasons. Face can be a motivation. The researchers who came up with the nine categories of environmental attitudes. They call this group religious greens Taiwo so can is one of them. She's a twenty three year old actress in Philadelphia, she's a Christian a big part of my faith is that I believe that as Christians we should fight for those who are not necessarily able to fight for themselves that we need to to be a voice and speak up for the things that we believe are wrong. And I think that that doesn't just apply to people that applies to the earth can't speak for herself the earth is what we have. And if we aren't fighting to keep the earth healthy to do our best and make the best of what what we have. Then we'll lose it. This is what we have. This is all that. We have my Christianity is all about. Social justice. My Christianity is about environmental Justice fighting for what I believe is. Right. And what Christ would want for all of us, including his earth. Taiwo? Does her part by recycling reusing things whenever possible she likes to use old class bottles to make Khumbu. Sometimes I feel like my way isn't enough. But I am doing what I can. Every day each one of us makes hundreds of choices big and small that impact the environment. But what do people really willing to give up? You know, if they recycled that waste, and they buy something that says green, they feel that they've done their share. That's environmental scientists Halina Brown, but it's just all these gestures. They they have no meaning in terms of environmental impacts. She's professor America at Clark university. In Massachusetts Halina says if you want to really have an impact it's going to mean owning less stuff and buying less consumption is the biggest drivers of environmental impact and of emissions of greenhouse gases that threatened climate about seventy percent of all our economy. Depends on household consumption. So essentially, our lifestyles and consumption both the driver of the economy and the cause of the emissions of greenhouse gases. It's it's enormous. So changing anything about our consumption. I guess on many levels is tricky because it does have a big impact on on our economy. That's right. That's what makes it so difficult. Our economy will construct it that way that's one of the big problem since in the last several decades since the end of the world tour to the essentially decision on how to move the country forward was made to have private consumption as the main generator of jobs, creating wealth and wellbeing now. I have children, and I often tell them that I had much much much less than they do as a kid. And I firmly believe that is true. But is it true? I mean, I remember things being much more expensive. When I was a kid and us just having less stuff, less clothes, less toys. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Look at the houses houses are extremely good indicate or of consumption because the size of the house determines how much energy the house itself. Consumes, but it also reflects of how much stuff we have. So in the nineteen fifties every house in the US will somewhat around between nine hundred thousand square feet, and he'd been going up literally every single year. That the new house that's being constructed is bigger. So right now, the average new house that's built in the US is about two and a half thousand square feet. So there is no doubt that there is much more of everything and these goods that are houses are filled with also have become cheaper in recent decades. Right. They've become cheaper. And they don't last very long so people can acquire them, and they have no value to people furniture cheaply made close, you know, we can afford to purchase these items and we can afford to throw them out and replace them with new ones a lot of people want to be environmentally conscious. They want to be green. But then at the same time. They also want to live in a really big house, and they want to have a nice car, and they want to have a new couch every two years. So this concept of reducing that being truly green means you have to give something up is that sort of dawning on people, you think well, we have to frame it not as a sacrifice and laws. It would have to be framed differently framing like freedom. I mean think about I live in a pretty wealthy community. And I see this houses beautiful Victorian house is huge. And when I look at them, and I said, oh my gosh. If I had to furnish that place and then maintain it that would be a lifetime project. I am free of that is being a little bit counter cultural, and maybe a little subversive, but that has an edge of something. Interesting Noval to it. Halina Brown is an environmental scientist and professor America at Clark university in Massachusetts. This is shades of green an Earth Day special from the pulse. For Canadian writer Madeleine Somerville. Having less stuff came sort of accidentally at first she had moved to a really small town in British Columbia with nowhere to shop. She was a social worker on a limited income, you know, in the beginning, it was just necessity and it was frustrating, and I would write emails home about how annoying. It was that. I couldn't find a store that sold white tank tops in my down. It was like so frustrating, but over time she started enjoying having less stuff. She moved into smaller and smaller places, she got rid of things she bought her clothes second hand, it became a way of life. My sister, and my mom are currently in a fight with me right now because I don't have a cattle like stove top kettle. And they think that's ridiculous, but I have a sauce pad. And so I'm like, why do I need a cattle of it just sits has one purpose when I can just boil water in a saucepan they Heim like completely insane for. This. So every time they go anywhere. They're extending me pictures of kettles. We found this really cute candle. I don't need a co Madeline told me this is not like some kind of diet. You know, she's not depriving herself of things all the time. She just really enjoys this lifestyle. She's written a book about it. It's called all you need is less. This is shades of green and Earth Day special from the pulse. Talking about our choices and how they impact the environment. If I say air pollution, you probably think of some pretty specific things congested highways burning coal factory towers belching out black smoke. But a group of scientists recently identified a source of air pollution. That's a lot more personal their journey to discovery ended inside our bathrooms list tongue reports. This is a detective story one about a mystery took a team of scientists over three years to solve driving the case was fearless gumshoe. I'm Brian MacDonald. I'm an atmospheric scientists at the National Oceanic in Atmospheric Administration. Our story starts in Los Angeles back in the summer of twenty ten a bunch of groups had gotten together for this huge study on air pollution about a hundred scientists came down from all around the world, the deployed teams to sites around the city and their goal to investigate pretty much everything that we think of to study in the atmosphere as it relates to urban smog in Los Angeles, Jessica Gilman with another scientists working on the project, and what she and the other researchers were looking for these chemicals volatile organic compound review sees which quick explainer are basically these chemicals that vapid release -ly. It has a Finnity to want to get into the air and also contain carbon. Which is what makes them organic VOC's are everywhere include anything you can smell from grass to gas lead large wildfires forest that pints mother appeal of an orange along with plenty of things you can't. But overall they've got kind of a bad rap. That's because a lot of VOC's, for instance, ones that come from fossil fuels hope for and pollutants like ozone or small particles, which are bad for your health. And also kind of makes that Hayes in that sort of smoggy layer so back to Los Angeles. All these scientists have finished taking measurements at sites around the city. And now their job is to figure out how much pollution there is and where it's coming from the start with the usual suspects. The main thing that we looked at first we're, of course, the emissions from vehicles. But as they're crunching their numbers, they noticed something weird cars only account for maybe half of the pollution. They're finding so they start checking other sources. So there's some natural gas plants that were wind of the site a large power plants in the area. But that didn't explain it either. Clearly, there was something else going on. Impure? There was a missing source, so they've got a mystery on their hands. But Brian has a hunch that the source of his view sees might be right under their noses. And that's when Brian really start digging into these emission Madore Ie's, which are basically these big databases that track the chemicals used by different industries. Brian's idea was to see what kinds of chemicals are in different products that way he could figure out which ones might be contributing to air pollutants. The problem was a lot of companies keep their product formulations a secret, so Brian when looking for information in the only place he could public data sets such as from good US department of commerce agencies like the US Environmental Protection Agency long story short, Brian and his colleagues spend three years collecting all this data. The next up was testing products in the lab to measure their missions. And then seeing if we found the chemical fingerprint of these products and that the air. That's right. They dusted Los Angeles smog for fingerprints. And they found them which led the team street to their culprit as it turned out. The biggest source of these mystery emissions was. Invigorating rainforest fresh body wash spice pure sport, superfish aftershave, a soak Luxy health and Seabury revitalizing shampoo toiletries they were responsible for nearly half of the air pollution that the researchers were finding in Los Angeles personal care products. So things like shampoos deodorants creams lotions. They're also cleaning supplies and garden pesticides and paints, but toiletries came in number one, which even to Brian and his colleagues seemed hard to believe and not just because car exhaust feels way more noxious than refreshing waterfall missed how those little tiny amounts. Couldn't basically match the gallons of gasoline. That are in your car just seemed off like I couldn't reconcile in my head. But then they did some calculations and what they found was that the VOC's toiletries evaporate way faster than the ones in fuel. In fact, that's the main reason why so many products contain VOC. In the first place. They have to solvents carriers for the stuff. We want to spread on her skin. Plus evaporation is what makes fragrances work. So I mean, if you think about what the iota is supposed to do right at supposed to volatile is and emit some nice miles. That was the of Eureka moment to me ya'll you use smaller amounts of it. But almost all of it will eventually end up in the atmosphere. The study is already checking air pollution research around the world and could someday even change the way we regulate emissions personal habits might shift to George Preti has been studying VOC's for years, and he says the VOC's the study talks about aren't just coming from inside people's homes. If you go out to the environment, your omitting, these things I mean, if I if you're close enough to someone on a subway or bus, you could smell the fragrances coming off from the hair, certainly not for my hair because I don't have much George says his lab has found some of these compounds in an even more personal realm. Bodily fluids all of which is even more reason to rethink which products we use and how researcher Brian McDonald says the studies already done that for him. So it makes me has made me a lot more aware of what I'm using as well as trying to seek out for versions of cleaning products as for scientists, Jessica Gilman. This is her advice. Just using the smallest amount needed in order to get the job done. Liz tongue reported this story, and I have to admit even though I just heard all of this. I'm not ready to give up my orange scented cleaner or the shampoo that I love that smell so nice, but I have a really small car, and I almost never use it. But then again, I fly a lot I'm pretty inconsistent in terms of being green. But it is on my mind. Many people just don't worry about it at all. I never think about my carbon footprint. We'll figure it out. And I think that we've made big strides, right? And we'll figure it out. That's l Michener Maryland like about thirty percent of Americans. She doesn't think climate change will affect her. She's not concerned. But she says she still lives simply it's in your own personal interest to conserve and not be wasteful had a grandmother who you know, saved every button and every piece of string and every egg. Shell to fertilize her violets. So I think that is my background to kind of live simply. But it isn't about being green. And by the way, researchers have found that your attitude toward the environment doesn't really predict your carbon footprint. Talking about personal choices big and small that impact the environment, and what motivates us to make them many television viewers feel very attached to their local weather forecasters, they're usually fun and upbeat. They tell us when to bring an umbrella or when to wear a rubber boots store and coming out of the Rockies, excuse me into the plain states, look at all the cloud cover. That's because there's that's the voice of Tom skilling for over forty years. He's been the lovable and enthusiastic weathermen of Chicago's TV station W G N. But when Tom started talking about climate change on the air, some of his viewers pushed back, oh, here's a letter. Dear Tom, skilling user are the dumbest dumb dumb in dumb land. And then he's got me with a dumb camp on despite the occasional hate mail. Tom is still vocal about climate change on air. He sat down with reporter JJ Smith to discuss why more TV meteorologist aren't doing the same. You know, a lot of people think this is some sort of I don't know conspiracy. That people come to us in our bosses say don't you touch that? That's a scary subject. I have never in my experience had any manager ever. Come to me and say don't even go there. No, one of our younger whether people want to do something on climate change and was told by a news manager. Now, be sure you get somebody from the other side of the story, and I stepped in and said, there isn't another side of the story. And I think this young forecaster felt, you know, concern, it's not because anybody came out with an edict and said don't. Talk about it. And I think he was trying to avoid any pitfalls that he's suspected might exist. If you were a young meteorologist are today, and maybe even say somewhere other than Chicago more conservative place is vocally about climate changes. You do. No, I don't think. So and I can think of regions of the country where you better not, you know, if you were working down the deep south where there's a more conservative band, you'd better think about it do use their obligation. Would you say among local broadcast meteorologist to talk about climate change? I think just as a matter. I mean, we're communicating the bottom fascinating system our atmosphere, and all and when it does I'm usual things. I think it's important for us to put in context what's going on. Because people will reject preaching if they think that's what you're doing to them. You wanna bring them along you want to say, hey, here's an interesting piece of evidence in here's how this fits into the big picture. And this is why a group very concerned scientist. Have reached some of the conclusions that they've reached you know, I wasn't quick to come to the climate change. I mean, I didn't immediately buy into the whole climate change scenario when I used to hear model forecasts at the Arctic was going to melt, and all I thought well, you're going to have to prove it to me. My mind was changed by the evidences, I went along. And I see things happening. I haven't seen happen before. And I say. They're right about that. So I can understand why a snowstorm or a cold wave in the middle of a period, you're told the planet is warming is confusing people. There is a great example. Think of what we can do when you do talk about an extreme cold way. You can point out. Yeah. It's cold here. But you've been hearing this discussion of climate change. And look at the big picture. It's unusually hot here. And unusually hot here all the rest, and that's something. I've tried to do while we shivered here in the midwest this past winter, Las Vegas, Phoenix and Miami registered record winter warm. So did Alaska where mammoth avalanches some of the largest ever observed occurred, the UK's all this your job. I don't I don't set out to change minds. It's just that. When something happens that's out of the ordinary. I think part of your job is to say this is out of the ordinary, and here's how we place this in context. And she is an interesting that we're seeing more of these situations show up more frequently and I must say wish more people were talking about it too. In my line of work. That's weathermen Tom skilling. He spoke to reporter Jake J Smith for WBZ in Chicago. The stuff we do to be green. It's personal and often means making real changes that affect other areas of your life. Thirty four year old Meghan adorno. Made a decision to go vegan. No meat. No cheese. No eggs, no animal products period, and for her that means taking care of her health animals and the planet. She talked about all of this while cooking up a quick vegan dinner today were making almost instant chickpeas Medo. So it's super quick and easy. So if you come home from work whip it up in like fifteen minutes from feeding on the cheap, my favorite cookbook feel like there's no bigger benefit than cutting the animal products out of your life for everything for your health for the planet for the animals and the salt. Like, I never have. After going vegan. I dropped forty pounds without changing anything else in my life, which was really nice. Definitely after going vegan felt of much deeper connection with non human animals all of them are individuals. And yeah, don't deserve to be used for goods that we don't actually need to consume and that are detrimental to our health and the health of the planet. The environmental aspect was kind of the last thing that hit me. And that one was when I kind of kicked into gear like I can't sit back and be a quiet vegan. I need to speak up because this is for the planet. It seems crazy to say like, this is all encompassing. But that's how it how it feels. When you start to gather the information, it becomes really apparent like we need to do this. We need I need to get other people to do this because they're going to feel great. They'll be cutting down on how much water they use their land usage, the CO two. I think it's you cut your carbon footprint in half by going just vegetarian. I think and then even more so by going vegan. Now, I can say I'm an environmentalist. And I'm really like doing everything I can my best not to not damage things quite so quickly. That's vegan and home coke magneto. Or no. We're talking about why people make changes or even sacrifices in their lives often. Our actions are motivated by fear. Theorem that we are rapidly destroying the planet in nineteen sixty eight fifty years ago, a book came out that took America by storm certainly hit a great title in. I'm jealous of the title that population. Bob, it featured this sentence on the cover while you are reading these words for people will have died from starvation. The author is Stanford biology professor Paul Erlich, and he painted a nightmarish picture of what lay ahead for the human race early. Was so powerful it's a bomb. It's going to go off. That's Gary mcdonagh an urban anthropologist at Bryn Mawr college in Pennsylvania. Gary wasn't high school when this book came out just about to go to college and reading it really influenced him. He was talking about inevitable deaths of millions of people after we after which we might survive. So is very dark Paul Erlich fast. Talking handsome and. Eloquent became a popular guest on talk shows and the book sold millions of copies. He hammered home. The message that the earth would soon be unable to feed all of the people on it. If we want to avoid a tremendous rise in the death rate. We absolutely must have tremendous decrease in the birth rate early played upon fears of things we didn't know Gary mcdonagh says people of all ages were talking about this book, the sixties were a time of great upheaval. And Gary says it became part of a larger discussion both in terms of reflecting on who we were. And what are possibilities and responsibilities were and reflecting upon the context in which we lived which seemed much more chaotic than we'd imagined it. I was coming out of a generation had been raised believe that everything was hours in terms of the postwar generation, and suddenly realizing that there were limits on it. This shiny promise of the fifties. With big cars and pastel colored refrigerators had given way to fear is about limited resources than a day of reckoning for all that consumption was near that sends of doom is depicted in the early nineteen seventies science fiction movies z p g which stands for zero population growth. It was inspired by early book because it has been agreed by the nations of the world. The earth can no longer sustain a continuously increasing population. As of today, the first of January, we join with all other nations of the world in the following eating child. Berry is Iranian or visit. Nightime talk shows, Paul Erlich didn't stump for government to forbid all procreation. But he came close you could move to giving women bonuses for not having babies that almost certainly would do the job if that didn't have the effect then you can move to changing the tax structure. So that people who had the money and had the children paid for the children. The words you would increase taxes on people with children if that doesn't work then you'll have the government legislating the size of the family and people say, oh that's impossible. Government can never intrude until you. How many children have? Well, I got news. You know, it intruded a longtime ago until you how many wives you can have. And there's not the slightest question than we don't get the population under control voluntary means that in the not-too-distant future. The government will tell you how many children can have and throw you in jail. If you have too many. Apologist. Gary mcdonagh says once he got to college students would web button sayings EPG's zero population growth, the sense of crisis since of a need to change many things was very important to contact your congressman and to start talking to your neighbors, most of the population bomb predictions, haven't come true. But Gary says the worry is still there. We didn't actually resolve all these problems we dodge some so we've learned to live with food for larger populations. But famine is still a problem today pushing for population control policies around the globe has become somewhat taboo, this topic is attached to some troubling history. Millions of four sterilizations in India in the nineteen seventies. China's brutal enforcement of their longtime one child policy even strident environmentalists shy away. From it as a possible solution, but lots of individual people still consider the environment. When they are starting a family think about it in the nineteen seventies the earth's population was three point seven billion. Now, it's over seven billion Kerry fiber worried about those numbers when she became a mom, and it didn't help that she was living in the oil capital of the world. When I was thirty four years old, I left New York City for a reporting job in Houston, Texas. A lot of my friends were incredulous Houston, don't expect visit New York had media and finance. San Francisco had tech LA was movies, but Houston was oil and gas and petrochemicals. I was always reminded that Houston's economic heart runs on fossil fuels east of downtown. There are miles of refineries petrochemical plants bristling with pipes and flare. Stacks belching flames or black smoke when I first got there. I would ask is that thing on fire and people would laugh. No, that's just a gas flare. They're burning off excess. It was beautifully apocalyptic like a scene from Bladerunner. It always been anxious about global warming. But not just global warming all of it, the dying corals and acid rain and the little animals that were going extinct before we even discovered them or named them but living in Houston, really ratcheted that up it was like a constant trigger for my echoing Zayed's. But I also kind of liked that the honesty of it. Hugh stones have no illusions. They know exactly where the gas in their car comes from. And where the air conditioning comes from and what that costs to their wallets and the environment. I sort of love the weird contradictions of the place. Instead of my husband, Eric, we met in Houston and got married and in twenty twelve our daughter was born it was mid December the last day of Hanukkah, and she was our healthy. Eight pound present. Yeah. I can't tell. Joanie nursed a little and then she cried a lot. She was the loudest baby on the maternity floor. What did I expect really naming my daughter after a singer? As child a little bit with all my crazy. My husband Eric still looks back on those first few months with a little bit of fatherly PTSD. Just to get Johnny to sleep was a ton of work. I mean it had to swallow swallow her super tied. I had to bouncer on a yoga ball for forty five minutes to an hour. Eric knew pretty early on that he would be totally fine. If we were one and done, I was more conflicted. I always wanted kids I thought kids, plural. But now that I had a kid ahead to decide right away. Whether I wanted another one was already forty so I didn't have the luxury of time. And yet a second child also felt like a luxury we couldn't afford not just in terms of money, but also in freedom and energy. And then there was my Houston problem the flare stacks the hurricanes. The floods. I was starting to doubt. Whether a second child was something the planet could handle either. Up. Cain Kotil spot. That's the first Joni Mitchell song, I remember hearing back in the seventies. When I was a little girl didn't really understand it. But I knew it was sad. Now, I knew too much. I'd read books about the environment and about family size. And I learned about the carbon footprint of Americans of an American kid. It's huge toys the vacations the birthday parties, the ice cream cones wanted Joni to have those cream cones because otherwise why have Joni but did I need to Jones? Jones five now enough sides to her personality to be her own sibling. And she thinks big too. Ganesha here. When people come dinosaurs works. Because. John there long ago. The decision to stop with her wasn't strictly environmental. But it's done a lot to ease. My echoing Zion. A second child would double the consumption double the emissions and the study showed no amount of recycling. Not even giving up meat cars and airplanes for the rest of my life would ever be able to make up for it. It's not the only way to cut back, but having one less kid kind of let's do it in one fell swoop Joanie is my one fell swoop Kerry fiber is a health editor she now lives in Oakland, California, where she's met some folks who are more environmentally neurotic than she's. Shades of green is a production of the pulse at WHYY in Philadelphia. You can catch our show every week on itunes, or whatever you get your podcast, our health and science reporters are Alan you Liz tongue jets Lehman and Steph yet Julian Harris is our intern chart with higher is our engineer. Lindsey Lazar skis. Our producer, Tanya English is our editorial director, I'm Mike and Scott. Thank you for listening. Behavioral health reporting on the pulse is supported by the Thomas, scattered good behavioral health foundation, an organization that is committed to thinking doing and supporting innovative approaches in integrated healthcare WHYY health and science reporting is supported by generous grant from public health management corporations public health fund, P H, M C gladly supports WHYY and its commitment to the production of services that improve our quality of life. This podcast is supported by the Arden theatre company presenting Treasure Island, this classic tale follows young Emily and she transforms her living room into the wild seas to discover a journey of a lifetime now through June ninth tickets at Arden theatre dot org or two one five nine two two one one two two.

Mike Allen America Philadelphia Houston scientist WHYY reporter Scott Tom skilling Matt Vincent professor Montana VOC Jennifer Benz
Vaccination Is Key To Preventing Hepatitis A

Florida Matters

27:30 min | 2 years ago

Vaccination Is Key To Preventing Hepatitis A

"This is florida matters i'm robin sesing the number of hepatitis a. cases in florida doubled in two thousand seventeen seventeen doubled again in two thousand eighteen and so far this year the number of cases are up more than fivefold laura's surgeon general declared august if the hepatitis hepatitis a outbreak was a public health emergency today on florida matters we're taking a look at the status of this potentially serious illness what's is causing the spike in cases what's being done to protect people from getting sick with me in the studio is julio coachella cia editor of WSF's health news florida and jill roberts an assistant professor at the university of south florida's college of public health thank you both so much for being here thank you robyn thank you so first off what is hepatitis a. in what are the symptoms of this illness joe so hepatitis is viral infection in many years ago that was mostly spread by contaminated food and water but lately we're seeing has spread it's actually person to person and that's what's causing the outbreak that you see now the symptoms can look a lot like food borne diseases at the beginning with nausea vomiting in favor but then he can progress to some fatigue and you can even get jaundice okay so this virus attacks the liver correct that's correct unlike like a lot of vaccine preventable diseases this one's actually more dangerous and adults so young people less than seventy percent of them are even symptomatic they don't even know they're infected affected and it's rarely serious it's an older individuals that attacks the liver and actually causes a fulminate liver disease which can cause liver failure so you said it's passed person person to person so julio is it through blood it's not through blood right no they call it the fecal oral route so it's people who maybe don't wash wash their hands well enough after using the bathroom it gets they can transfer it through food or by contact with another person so this is why you see the sign zayn always in a restaurant that says what our employees are required to wash your hands but obviously maybe it's still not happening enough enough i mean is is it being spread through restaurants jill no but there's concern that there could be a spillover into the restaurants some most of the spread actually is in the homeless individuals and people who are IV drug users and also users of drugs that are not injectable and so what you're seeing is a hygiene issue so it is a fecal route when we also have out of spread of men who have sex with men they issue with the homeless population in particular is many of the individuals may actually go work in in restaurants and so now you have the case where you have an individual who's infected working in a restaurant and that can push us back into the classical router spread through contaminated food and in water so have we seen that though in these cases these are the statistics i saw fifty percent drug users about twenty five five percent or more in the homeless population leaving around twenty five percent where they don't know how they contracted hepatitis say are they seeing cases from restaurants or is that not been a problem there have been some outbreaks that occur in restaurants with individuals who are infected unfortunately tally we don't really know the data very well because there's a confidentiality issues there which is a good thing we're protecting the individuals we don't know how they got infected so then we i don't know how they routed into the restaurant so it's hard to tell it could be a theoretical risk entirely but the reality is with the homeless populations you you do the same things you would do in a restaurant figure out ways to prevent these infections and that's really the key problem well what's the difference julio between hepatitis a. and what else's their hepatitis c. you hear about different kinds of hepatitis there's there's be in their c- hepatitis a. there is a vaccine there's no vaccine for hepatitis z. hepatitis c. comes with more chronic illness it can last a lifetime i if there is a cure for it now but it costs a whole lot of money hepatitis a. typically it will run its course in about two months and then you'll you'll get better and you won't have any long term effects so it doesn't it's not really a serious serious maybe as hepatitis c. right but it can cause death it's caused forty five deaths in florida so far so how do we jill how do we test test for hepatitis a. how do we know someone comes in someone listening to this and they're like wow i felt nauseous this morning you know how do i know i don't have hepatitis say i mean when when did you become alarmed wind should you go to your doctor and and get yourself tested and how do doctors test for it so there are there plenty of testings for these appetite is a panels do exist as always you wanna reach out to your physician if you have any concern whatsoever you can always call and say this is what i'm experiencing should i come come in always recommend never looked to the internet for your solutions call your healthcare provider if they think that you have a reasonable exposure so that's one thing do you have have a route of exposure that would make likely that you are infected you have symptoms that are consistent then you should go in and get tested so kind of flu like symptoms you're you're a little bit worried about it go ahead and get tested and that's a blood test okay so what are the exact numbers that we've seen this year so there's been more than twenty eight hundred cases this this year and that compares to five hundred forty cases in two thousand eighteen in two hundred seventy six in two thousand seventeen what in the world is causing this spike well it one thing is so contagious and in a lot of it as we said has has been being spread through the homeless community and they're not using their correct hygiene so once somebody gets it it can live on a surface for for several weeks at a time so making spread that way and it spreads through drug users so when somebody gets it is easy to contaminate others others and if it's not taking care of our people don't get enough vaccinations and it can continue to spread throughout the community one thing is the vaccination was not not started to give they didn't start to give the vaccination to children until the year two thousand five so there's a lot of adults out there who have not been vaccinated against us so there's they are susceptible getting this disease so things are starting to go in the right direction action here's a soundbite from the florida surgeon general scott rookies he was speaking to a florida senate committee recently nellis county very highly highly impacted county has seen a very significant decrease in number of cases going from a peak of sixty six down to nineteen pasco county has declined from a peak of seventy seven down to nineteen cases of in september orange county has seen a decrease volusia county we are seeing a decrease bavard county decreases hernandez county decreases and martin county which has been impacted by individuals in this community succumbing to this virus we are also seeing a decrease in the number of cases in this area as well oh so thank goodness things are going in the right direction jill why the turnaround an extremely aggressive public health outreach campaign so we learned a lot lessons from these outbreaks going on another states so florida was actually a little bit later to see this peak and that may have occurred because we finally started looking for it so he did more testing but california was impacted very early they did a really aggressive campaign where they went out and targeted the homeless populations they vaccinated they brought out facilities for hygiene church showers or washing facilities for hands soap clean needle exchanges which as you can imagine are very controversial all all these things together really decrease the numbers that you had remember we always have that herd immunity effects if you can decrease numbers that are present you decrease the spread across the board so we were lucky there learned from what california did and really they declared the epidemic over before ours really started to take off and we did the same thing so especially here in hillsborough county we have to give a lot of props to the health department for aggressively vaccinating pinellas and pasco county though had the highest numbers of cases at one point i think so maybe they had the the biggest the most dramatic drops because of that they still do have the highest number of cases in the states but month over month they are seeing a decline in new cases in pinellas i believe two weeks ago for the first first time in a long time did not have any new cases at during the week so they pinellas has been super aggressive as well adt vaccinating their population they're offering for the health department and pinellas county is offering free vaccinations to anyone who wants one so they have just been hammering at home that you need to get vaccinated for for this virus they sent out foot patrols into the community to try and reach the homeless populations so they're they're going with vaccines filomena wagon and and they just walk around the community looking for homeless people to give these vaccinations to so and that's going over well they're accepting the vaccinations i actually went out with one of them and they they had a lot of people they did take him or or did want to get the vaccination but some of them were declining to get get them and they learned about this program through california which had experienced a massive outbreak as well so they took some of the stuff that they learn from california brought it to pinellas county and what about the the hygiene the showers and things like that jill was talking about were they doing that also and fennell i did did not see them doing that but i mean i don't know if the health departments offering that and you may see a significant difference in funding available to the health department so in reality the best thing that you can do is the vaccine you have almost no vaccines on the market other than this one that has nearly one hundred percent efficacy meaning it always works camino vaccines for other diseases that good is this exactly what about side effects side effects extremely minimal you'll see almost no reports anywhere with any safety effects with this particular vaccine one downside is you do have to have a second shot is the second booster that is required and so a ah reaching a population that is migratory like a homeless population can be difficult to do but not impossible so the other issue with that is that those two vaccines need it'd be about six months apart and so you really need to have a place that you can reach people one of the things that california did was very creative about reaching them places like soup kitchens where where people would revisit over and over again homeless shelters and things like that so you could definitely reach the same person over and over if you needed to but yeah that's remarkable fact for that vaccine seem to be nearly one hundred percent efficacious and julio even if they can't reach them for that second shot six months later does have some efficacy the one ninety five percent that's still quite good and one of the things about the vaccine if if you think you've been exposed you can get the vaccine as long as it's within two weeks of exposure and it will have an impact in and stop you from getting that disease that's really interesting so you've already been exposed to it or you're afraid you've been exposed to it you can get a vaccine for because usually i don't usually you hear that's too late to get a vaccine but in this case it'll stop the effects of it that's really interesting debate that virus has a twenty eight day incubation period so that's one of the reasons why that can work within two weeks i see so you may not be having symptoms symptoms yet right you just you're afraid you're exposed with the blood tests show that you're exposed you should be able to see early exposure yes you're listening to florida florida matters we're going to take a short break and we'll be right back this is florida matters i'm robin sussing ham and today we're talking about the hepatitis a outbreak my guests here in the studio julio joa editor of WSF's health news florida and you'll roberts assistant professor at the university the of south florida's college of public health so let's talk a little bit more about how it's spread it's kind of understandable usually you hear about this kind of virus being spread by syringe use by people who inject drugs but why is it spread in the community of people who just who take recreational all drugs or who take pills things like that so i think it'd be clear it's not a blood borne virus and so where we hear about injection things spreading things like hepatitis potato be it's probably not that route but rather the unclean methods that people are using a conditions in which they're injecting so it's probably not the act so much as the conditions in addition to that you do have this other factor involved which is individuals who are looking for drugs will often exchange sex for drugs drugs so you can have a fecal oral route spread by sex as well and so as we see an increase in homeless population in IV drug juicers definitely in men who have sex with men and then in addition to that one thing that we should mention is that you can have spread among close household contacts so for example in some of the really famous hebei ebbe outbreaks that occur due to food you actually had a little secondary boost of cases of people who lived in the same house with the people who ate infected food because because that virus as was mentioned survives in the environment so it's just very very contagion so what i think i hear you saying is that it's just simply people who might be addicted to drugs it's the hygiene and a homeless population it's not taking the drug itself it's just sort sort of the living conditions that surround that lifestyle that's probably true okay so the pinellas county health department director said that the outbreak hepatitis a. mirrors the use of illicit drugs i don't understand why now because obviously the drug use has been going on for years so why the hepatitis a outbreak now jill so again when i was talking about eventually people run run out of money to pay for drugs and start exchanging other things like sex for drugs and that's probably giving you one of your main routes so once you get an infection like that established in that particular take population it really can take off if there's no herd immunity if there's people aren't vaccinated as we mentioned earlier the vaccine only came on board recently so you you have a prime population of adults who are now using drugs and it doesn't have to be IV drugs either it can be other types of drugs it's just the community the the people who are doing miss and the conditions under which they're doing this that you have that spread so it's that prime population that's not vaccinated now there's absolutely no reason not to vaccinate everyone one so this is at so the so the health department director urges everyone to get a vaccination but why should we get the vaccine if we are not in one of these high risk groups what you're going to eat at a restaurant so you may be served by someone who is in one of the high risk groups you may frequent an area area in which those persons has been has been located in actually gotten the virus which is stable communicate or rather contaminated an area and so you could get an infected the reality is why not why would we take every step possible to protect ourselves when as you mentioned before the vaccines are being given away for free in many places right well it's time it's inconvenience i mean ask any woman who has to schedule a mammogram you have to go out of your way to do this staff and also julio how much does it cost well it depends if you have insurance or not many times insurance will cover the whole cost sometimes you have to pay a co pay they're they're suggesting that people when they go to get their flu shots should ask for hep a vaccine as well it could range in price from fifty to one hundred dollars hours out of pocket depending on the pharmacy you go to or where you have the shot administered if you don't have any insurance yeah because i think fifty to one hundred dollars yeah because most insurance plans are covering it i would think can you have it with another vaccination desert any problem with getting a flu vaccine ax scene and hepatitis together no there's no issues actually i did that i had the flu vaccine in the bay together because i hadn't been vaccinated i definitely miss that cutoff years when they were vaccinating young children and they were advertising it so when you went to CVS to get your flu vaccine the the sign was right there as long as you're here get your bay shot your be shot all of these are available and swiss said oh it's i'll take the shot sure no problem and they did that shot but at the same time julio what is the obstacle to getting vaccinated you're out there with them as they were you know patrolling trying joe giving it out for free free what are the obstacles that you saw you know i think that that people just don't know to get to have a vaccination and you know when they were patrolling their patrolling and and gulfport when i went out with the the health department and they would walk by restaurants and offer vaccinations and many times the employees the manager at the restaurant would get all of his employees out because he wanted everybody to get vaccinated for the restaurant just because as joe said that the incidences of love of hep a. outbreaks in a restaurant are so small you know i think surgeon general said there were only four percent of the actual hefei cases that are being spread when it does hit a restaurant it it is very public and sometimes it can result in restaurants closing down so you did see a lot of a lot of people who worked in the industry were very concerned about getting it but outside of that there weren't a whole lot of people that knew to need to get the hepi vaccine you know the public health advisory was trying to do is to alert more of the public alert physicians to to suggest it to maybe risk communities that they see to get this vaccination there are some interesting facts that i came across when i was looking looking up this infection rates in the united states have declined by over ninety five percent since the hepatitis a vaccination became available billable in one thousand nine hundred ninety five so that that really is a success story that you don't hear that much right that's correct it just shows you how well vaccine works works and some of that is also effective herd immunity said just decreasing by that hurt hurt immunity means that if there's no one to spread the disease you're not going to spread it so you you can actually have this by being vaccinated or by having a disease either way you can no longer get that disease so for example if you've had a you're not gonna get get it again if you've been vaccinated you can't get it you can't spread it so you're not up one of those people i could go out i could get into contact with the virus but i can't take it home to someone one who could potentially be infected so that's at herd immunity effect and it worked great so that's why we saw those a massive massive numbers of jobs so oh then you can have the reverse occur like we're seeing now where suddenly you have those niche populations that are susceptible and that's where these things are taking off we're not discussing discussing an outbreak in children right now because they're all protected they've all been vaccinated it's all adults why are we thinking that pasco in pinellas have had counties have had these really high numbers higher than anywhere else in the state do is there an the idea until well there's two potential ways to look at it number one is either their health department is doing one heck of a great job of doing detection and the other departments are not art and so maybe it's an artifact of reporting the other thing is you have to look at those high risk behaviors so what's going on do they have massive numbers of opioid crisis this you know cases going on there is it spillover from that so you'd have to look at all that data to know for sure is it possible that it could have to do with the water because i see that in some places hepatitis a. is spread through dirty water and eating raw seafood that's been contaminated i would say that's highly highly unlikely highly unlikely because major counties have really advanced laboratories for water testing and so again the health department the water department they all have labs and their testing that water so somehow the water would have to be infected in the first place which where's that going to come from as you showed there's ninety five percent drop in the virus so even if you had a sewage over on your unlikely to have sewage joe would have hep a. n. it anyway so i would say water and food you can pretty much discount as the source and i would save if you look at who's getting this this disease the fifty five percent have a history of drug use twenty percent are homeless so it's not the general zero population that is getting infected you know it's it's these groups of people who are very specific groups of people another interesting doing things that i read is that this virus is not killed by those alcohol based hand sanitizers which we all look at is sort of the cure for all evils and you know in the grocery stores and keep it in the car so handwashing is a big deal yeah and when you think that it can live on surfaces for weeks you know doorknobs you know public restrooms you know anywhere you go it it could be an issue so that's why it is important to get the vaccination summation well how do you clean off those doorknobs if you can't use alcohol based which every laboratory use bleach we very rarely me alcohol for any type of disinfection it just doesn't work as well as bleach does and so remember those other things can survive on those surfaces as well like influenza fluency has we're having flu season right now bleach bleach is really our goto so carry a little spray bottle of bleach don't count on your environmental services says you that for you okay so handwashing though the best you can do when you go to a restaurant or you go to a gas station and use the restroom or any place it's like that is really good handwashing short and keep in mind it's fecal oral so when is your hand going to come into contact with your mouth when you eat so wash your hands before you eat is really probably the most important thing keep your hands out of your mouth you know people are always of something's in my to don't do that so definitely keep their hands clean and keep in mind when you're going to be at high risk okay so to sum up then for hepatitis a. you could have it and not even know you have it a lot of people get hepatitis a. infected with hepatitis a. and they have no symptoms children get it they probably probably run around with it and then it goes away they're not people aren't that worried about children and also children are being vaccinated regularly now i'm starting in two thousand six it became curricular vaccination for children the people who have a problem are those people who are what over sixty years old and have underlying health young younger than that unvaccinated and younger than that but they have underlying health problems yeah that can definitely cause increase likelihood to have serious his problems but you can see fatal liver infections and people in their thirties that were not vaccinated and julio wind does the surgeon general rifke windy does he feel like they'll have this thing licked well he says once the high risk once they have vaccinated eighty percent of the high risk populations they believe aleve will see a significant decline in the number of people who come down with this disease so far they have in in the seventeen highly impacted counties they have vaccinated more than fifty percent so they still have a ways to go before they hit that eighty percent and he didn't really give a number a timeline crimeline for when he thought that that they were going to hit that eighty percent but they're that's why they're pushing vaccines so hard and it's not like a summertime is not seasonal like you might look at mosquito borne illnesses are seasonal but this is this has nothing to do with it for coming into cooler weather it won't affect it unfortunately and julio as i mentioned before the director of pinellas county's health department mentioned that at this kind of is mirroring opioid use drug use use how are we saying that well the surgeon general recently said that four of the seventeen highly impacted counties are actually seeing increases uses right now and he attributed that to methamphetamine use pockets of methamphetamine uses what he said so what are those counties that was hillsborough oh citrus lake in marion counties have actually seen a slight increases in the numbers of headaches which is interesting because when you look at the national map map two of where have a outbreaks are the worst kind of follows a map if you look at opioid use so you can look get some of the methods in which we could control these outbreaks aside from vaccination which is so important we got to target the drug use problem as well which of course gets very expensive and very complicated which is why i think people have kind of gone the other route but it's complicated for other infectious diseases as well and so in addition to what we're seeing with this we're seeing increases in STD's in its following the same routes in the same demographics that's jill roberts assistant professor at the university of south florida's college of public health and and we've also been speaking with julio coccia editor of w USS health news florida thank you both very much thank you out there are are a lot of ways for you to connect with us here at florida matters you can tweet us at florida matters or find us on the WSF facebook page you can listen to florida matters whenever is convenient for you as podcast search for it and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts florida matters is production of w US public media media the engineer is george goven the show is produced

florida laura editor WSF jill roberts assistant professor robin sesing university of south florida eighty percent two weeks ninety five percent one hundred dollars one hundred percent fifty percent six months twenty five five percent one ninety five percent twenty five percent fifty five percent
The Banisters on Comedians Interviewing Musicians

Comedians Interviewing Musicians

53:14 min | 1 year ago

The Banisters on Comedians Interviewing Musicians

"Welcome to Comedians interviewing musicians by music firsthand. You're listening to season. Six episodes seventy-six recorded on February twenty, six, two, thousand, nineteen, live from the east side is collaborative. Ori In Austin. Texas with hosts Becky Joe Neil. Kim Stacy are musical guest is the banisters, but I. Our show is possible. Thanks to our patrons and sponsors join our community to get exclusive access to content Merch, your own spotlight on the show and more for as little as one dollars a month. Your support helps us continue to showcase. Local artists sign up at CI impede out lie that see I M P dot live. Thank you for supporting local live music and remember give the podcast a five star rating. Every rating helps. These artists get discovered by new fans and now. Brought to you by music, firsthand and their live music looking up here's comedians interviewing musician. Hello, everybody, hi! Welcome I. Am Your Season Six co? Host Kim Stacey. Thank you appreciate that welcome to music firsthand comedians interviewing musicians podcast. We. Are Live in in real life real time at Austin East siders. I love, please because I have a gluten allergies, so I feel safe here, so thank you. I'm so excited before we get started at wanted to think some of our sponsors We have nine banded whiskey. Amazing and also our host this evening Austin East siders again. They've love. Thank you. Also if you haven't become A. On. You should do that tonight. Only for a dollar. You get a awesome t shirt and guys when I say. This is a sector I mean this shirt is so soft and it is so much better than sex, and it's only a dollar I mean. When's the last time you got extra for a dollar? Tonight's the night. So sign up and it's courtesy. We have merch through a new standard manufacturing. There are amazing. They have this shirts. And that is at sign up. See IMP dot live. That's CLA. Media is infection. MSN morning after. Puppies. Into podcast, but they said Comedians. Interviewing musicians lives better. So before we get started and Have our amazing band. Which is the banisters? excited. Crap. We. Have please help me welcome. Amazing hostess with the most is Becky, Jones, he'll. Come on. Over here, hi, ooh! Wow, just heard was the enormity of my. Watering. Trough hydrolyzed very important. Coming up. Yeah I gotta say. There are a lot of things. That, you've gotTA. Do South by yeah, but usually they tell you it's right in your face. They let you know we were do. Yes. Be Success Millennial. Rich yeah, comfy shoes, lots of money, otherwise rich. We should tell you what not to do. Yeah, that's southbound. We're very good at what not to do. You live and learn yeah. I learned not to lose my pass on the second day of south by. That's Nice, did that once? My boss gave that passed, so it was A. Rough one yeah. You were drunk. Yeah there it is. Awesome Yeah you should also not get drunk and think every dog wants to hug you. Because that's not a thing. Sometimes, you have to ask for consent. It's okay Muffin I understand. Everybody Shoulder. It's also not okay to get it well. I mean just in general like I'm rather feisty drunk. I fooled me. And one time these guys. I was taking a picture with a friend of mine in front of some light installation. Because that's what you do at South by. That's one of the things. Pictures. Yes, and he called US basic bitches. So I yelled at him yeah, because he was wearing sperry's. Nor like. He had a vineyard vine shirt on a Yeltsin. Like something about like your daddy's shirt or something I don't even know what I was so angry. Sure so. Don't yell at blackout. Drunk roles taking pictures. Yeah, because she'll get the burn from whatever the helmet drunk blackout says it also. Plan ahead and don't buy tampons downtown. Ten fucking dollars! There's no reason why can't buy them it something where you're earning garbage. Turn into garbage like no one paid no. Donner's. is also don't take home. A homeless you that you think is in a band. Are you commenting for a friend or is this I? This wasn't even southbound. I had a birthday this weekend and it was a rough weekend for me. I didn't know he was homeless. I really. Oh, but he was always. He wanted to stay a lot longer than he also asks to shower. To Wash my ass now it's like I don't know to see what. Was the sex. Good I don't know if it was like exciting, he was just Kinda sweaty. My apartment has been getting shitty heat. I don't know but like. I didn't put it to do so just thought he was in a band, but Just to beard just hard and Austin to tell the difference between a homeless man and a hip. Do you ever play that game yeah? Usually, we'll have meat. Mortagne than a hipster, so you can kind of. that. It is at least saying homeless not. Some other terrible. Are you ready to start the show? Now, it's time to start. Give yourselves around applause for showing up to Austin East siders and Co Host Kim being. Six. Seventy six try to keep my ankles together because a skirt or not, but get us to go viral girl. Yeah, them money honey. Thanks again to Austin for having US WE'RE GONNA kick off the show or Y'all ready to see the banisters get. Kick it off with some music. Away. Don't worry sister. Turn out quite data. Mama. GIRAFFE. This Instance! and. Bobby. Don't worry Mama. Home! All right, thank you. This is fine. y'All the banisters we always like to start the show with a we ask every week. Our dedicated fans to send in some questions we get questions from all over the world. Most of them are super-normal summit. Oh Shit! Okay, okay, wait. Okay, okay. Actually for the people who are listening who can't see this is lorraine. We get a lot of questions every week, but most of them come from Lorraine so we I sent her an email. She wanted to come to the show and I guess she actually managed to fit this into a very busy power walking schedule. She's I think she's got like fifty more steps to go then she'll make her way up here. Oh, that's good form, Lorraine, okay, y'all give it up for Lorraine the train. This is lorraine. Very dedicated fan well Gosh I can't believe him so close. Fighting know who so. It's so good to be here. Pitcher hoops match your. Windbreaker suits yeah I just found him on the street Oh. That's lucky there are dirty. How long have you been power walking today Lorraine about twelve minutes? Okay, that's yeah. That's was so windy. I'm so glad you could be your lorraine. Thank you for having me. Oh my gosh, I'm so excited. I listened to this podcast power walk and I just love all the pants. It just makes me feel like among. You know she's trying to stay young. That's what we're doing here music. To keep the people young. I feel so young. Yes, twelve minutes, girl, okay. Can I. Don't know. Yeah, you drink your cider. That's Kim went to the bathroom Thai food earlier. It was a bad shaw. I have no idea where. Lorraine. Would you like to your? Book here. She's got a full fanny pack. For dollar. Shopping My my high school musical notebook. Wow, it's got Zach Zach Ephron nine. It's also got a really nice holographic Tony. Scott I love the sparkles Vanessa hudgens priests sinful rent now. Yeah, yeah, I didn't watch. Yeah, no, no, no, Oh, Gosh! She's so many questions. Okay, Lorraine, kick it off. Are. Ready all your also pretty. Well can I ask a quick question? Are You all age? I'm going to take that as a yes. Okay Green right all right well the cooking rally. Behind Oh gosh, okay so. Question number one for Bachelor number two. Let's just kidding. How would this be dating show okay? I am single. My husband said okay if I was on your tour bus. Where would you put me? I put you right under the Hood Boo. Because I'm a running engine. Lorraine the train I get you across country. Okay so go on I. Put you in copilot's seat. I feel like you. Couldn't advocate Yeah I got one of those really good APP voices Naidoo turn left here. It's perfect. Yeah. Didn't was that clear Shit Lorraine to get a car against you. CAN MY CO pilot? Yeah, that's Niamh I. DO drive a lift, okay? All right ready question number two. You're listening drummer. Okay let's pretend you can't be in a band or you know. Music doesn't exist. Okay? What job would you do? Instead? No restrictions anything you why you'd have to be good at it in real life. ooh, yeah I'd be a gymnast. Clearly I would be a teacher. Would you teach? Yeah, I think I would teach early reading like a apple. Or the easy stuff. Not when you're that age, that's. That's the. Back, how many times you get! Help Back Lorraine twelve dams. Why did you get back? Just I couldn't get past that and it's hard. That Wisconsin accent is very very hard. My mouth only does the. Oath as same shit yeah exactly. Understand I. Think the in that sentence were also the same, and that's fine. Yeah, that's okay. What anybody else would you? What would you be Jimmy? Probably be retired. A man God boy after my own heart. That's nice. Does eating bon-bons watching your stories? That's. Oh that's good. I love stories. Okay all right. Here's another when I got is a burning one. What's your favorite kind of music to sing in the shower? You look liked things. Up. I'm a I'm a big fan of Chris. Stapleton tunes in the in the shower. In the shower exclusively. For Lorraine. Exclusively, but rains here. My next question was going to say. Can I sit on the toilet? Knicks time. And just listen. What are you going to do on the usually I do my puzzles. And I sit and take a snack. Because if I don't my blood sugar, get through low. But. I just mostly just GonNa? Listen to your angel bathroom, music. And that just sounds tasty. We've got a little closet toilets situation at my house Oh, so be hidden. Again. You couldn't see me signed status again rain. That's nice to. Put it in your house. Yeah anybody else what else sing in the shower. Little bit of this a little bit of that standards. The standards yeah little. My Country Tis of the WHO. Does, Grace. Steamy up in your bathroom, real spiritual. That's Nice Yeah I'm a fan of that. John I know we did get a good fan question the other week, if okay, what is your favorite thing about yourself? Go. Sounded waited, but it's not even joke. About yeah. I can think of twelve for you. got. A bucket list bucket. They're all y'all bucket full of compliments. It's my name I think. Dean yeah, that's good yeah. Very good yeah, just sounds ninety s heartthrob. Yeah Jack Oh. Sure sync up sisters true if you only still menstruating Oh God. No, not sense a- Carter was in office. That's fair. No, no, that's gone! That's long everything about yourself Chris. I like that I'm up for trying new things, Lorraine. Just kidding. Oh. Ut. Allah. I love the Wisconsin. I'm from Midwest Oh. That's nice. Of Love. Is the. Mid Range casseroles and as absolutely. Yeah Damn lots of things to give you heart attacks learning so much. Yeah, why don't you guys tell us a little like? Everybody gives us a little snippet about themselves. Like if we were on a dating show, yeah! I did a wink for listeners. Six feet tall, one hundred sixty pounds. Brown hair Brown eyes. Wow. Wow every serial killer in the last. Added White and forty we're cooking with. Wow. Shit Wisconsin to. Sounds like Ted Bundy's on her show. Also serial killers to oh. I Love Them. Or are we talking about captain, crunch? Killer wait no, Lorraine. I'm confused all right next. Give us a little mini bio. He's like I. Don't WanNa. Their north. Of the band. Before he hired him. I love not talking. Only. Like every father figure I've ever had in my mind in. Hits. No, you sounds like Janis more into body language. ooh I know you've got this. Wishy hips go. All right, you guys want to hear some more music. Oh, yeah, but I gotta go. GotTa go. For Lorraine. The train saw much for having me. Gentlemen I'm so glad you finally got to be here. I'm so glad I found it. Yeah, bring the girl. Almost. LAMMERS got real confused and I let people. Can. Yet again. The comments. That amine up to you. It's finally time to to do. AM Really mean one. Know. We can't always on. Let's live Vajpayee. Feeds. Off. Being so to? Through. Pam. Do. You. All. Do! A. All right, keep it going for the stars here Austin CIDERS. You missed a hell of a time, did I Had Prawns you guys don't don't prawns. It sounds invasive does in the word actually wants from a gas station? How was it so different from a shrimp? Why is it Ted so big? I don't fuck it now. Anyway, thank you guys again for joining us here, banisters. Pretty kick ass time already. We're going to ask some not so serious, but sort of normal questions. Your Lah. What's the story behind the name of the new album? We did some research Darwin Texas. It's like zero population city, right? It's a great question Darwin Texas is! Is it a real place? I don't think it's a real place. It's not a real place. WIKIPEDIA says population. On wikipedia it's for real. True Yeah Yeah you know. The name of album is Darwin Texas. We've evolved in a lot of ways. And it just SORTA started as like a joke outside of our practice base like are we going to call the album something and maybe Johnny I? Think we were talking about wrestling snakes. Tub Together. Well. That's actually true, okay? Let's paint that scene. Real quick, so we were in a hot tub. Bathing, suits were on fire. Already about how they have apparently somewhere in Texas. These beauty pageants where these these little kids like part of the beauty pageant will be to like Rangel snakes what's. Is True like adults or like is like toddler. Teenage beauty queens and they'll wrestle the snake. That checks out. Okay, yeah sounds. Like a religion saying is it like Jesus snakes like I'm confused snakes. I don't know Jesus thing or what, but. It's a white people. Thing is what it sounds like. West Texas thing Oh shit. Yeah, Oh, okay, so you're in the hot tub snakes. And you said Darwin Texas sounds like. Yeah that's what I got from this source. saw. Darwin Texas and it's on spotify. That should gesture that one well, we're getting into hot tub later. And filling it with snakes or listening to this album. sounds biting. Sounds like I'm going to the hospital. We will just die in the other own Anaconda. Don't want none okay. Actually, you know what's funny is I, didn't realize their drummer doesn't want to talk. His name is Jeff, but you're not going to say your last name on the podcast. 'cause whatever privacy, but your your name is exactly the same name as my high school religion teacher in he damned our whole class to hell and call warmongers one day. Yeah I mean look now. We had a very nice conversation outside actually no I. Don't know why but I saw your name on the thing and I was like immediately triggered I'm going to elegant. Also he was like only thirty. He wasn't like an ancient old crony like monk didn't have any reason to be like horse. He was a thirty year old man yelling at sixteen year old. So many issues to Gel ever have bad teachers. That was my lean into that. This is my thought is as being a bad teacher. You've been a bad teacher in a bad teacher. Light occasions. Nothing bad or illegal, just Cameron Diaz bad teacher. Say. Quiet starting TV up, we can only hope ooh. God. She was my teacher that as in like you're just not teaching correctly, or you're calling everyone a whore. Definitely not calling anyone a whole. That's good there we go. It's twenty nineteen with fucking program yeah. Okay Yeah I. Yeah, that's yeah. Sorry, I know that dog I. If anyone online heard me audibly gasped. I know that dog outside High Macho. I do she's a celebrity. She's the chief security here at music for Santa. If you'll know that she's get rowdy, our bosses dog Okay, so explain the artwork on the album cover. So, okay, so then the picture of Darwin's finches going off Darwin Texas. You've got finches right and they come on science teacher. Help us out. To teach science, but I'll fill in, so yes, sorry. Yes, I mean when you think about Charles Darwin like! He had like little sketches in there, so we when we asked for artwork we tried to. Describe this idea of like. Hey, here's our idea for this album. We want snakes and this beauty pageant, Queen. Michetti, can you make it look like it's out of like a science book and say we were not. I mean it's a little weird, but it can't be the weirdest thing. Anyone's ever been commissioned like. Came in. Really Cool I love it. Yeah, it's better than like. Like some you see like all the arts, really boring pictures then like. Oh, we're outside and we're not looking at the camera. Yeah. How do they get their? Who took that picture I don't. Like Snow White Scene But they're all wearing like eighty dollars worth of like vintage clothing. I wish I had that time. Okay, so advice for south by southwest, coming up to Y'all have any advice for the Austin Nights and. What not to do what to steer away from what to go to. Just do everything for free there. Yeah I get. That Shit. Yeah, check our facebook page and make sure to see what's coming up with the banisters. That's the top near South by event of the week. Every year whatever the banisters are doing? Joy Jet! Wait hold on, hold on. He's. Jeff Jeff's actually talking to have a friend that knows everything and just follow that person. Yeah, follow the one person the one person that does all the work and just be there plus one. Plus two or plus three whatever? Yeah the free stuff, but they've done all the homework. They have the APP or not. Has Free. tacos and beer right. Yeah, that sounds perfect. Let's let's do that genius. Yeah, so Jeff's theories to buddy up. With the guy who did his homework see that's nice. We would have gotten along in Highschool, Jeff that would have been fun? You would not have probably damned our entire. Your. Friend get away from me. Okay so, what do you have south by tickets for like artists that are coming into town may not be from Austin, but do you have any tips for the out of towners? Maybe not even just artists, but like people in general. So all the California's. When I moved to Texas. Buddy of mine gave me one of the more coolly cooler one of the cooler piece of advice us like just treat it like you're in a foreign country, which a lot of people like actually literally will be. Like, even if you're from like another part of the United, states use it as. Like an opportunity to explore new city, especially with high much Austin changing always, there's always gonna be something cool to see and like. New People to meet new stories get so. Where are you from originally grabner Chicago? Try, town! Used to cold. I'm from Vermont so I like a cold. Apparently we have. We have a fan question did. ooh, question from Earl earls great. Know he's a fantastic patron of ours. He has a beautiful dog named. Watson and I love him. Earl is watching Colorado tonight rejected band names for the banisters. Probably went through a few of them. The pillars. I came in and we are was a moment. We were like okay. BANNISTER has a pre okay. Here's one the two ends, thank. You spell bannister with one end. She knows what I'm saying. One and so we went back, and forth like two ends one and two one fucking end. Okay, that's what we said about that. We had a conversation about balanced rates. Maybe we're the balustrades. That's when you break out your the source right synonyms for banisters. Only one that knew. Straight is anyway. We went with just the banisters. That was the name. Yeah, after bannister lane on. That's where I practice spot was. Like that word, the debate between the two ends came from right now. Well, that helps that helps settle the debate. Okay like I'm over here like who the hell told. You was spell with two inns because they are in need of psychiatric Ritz. Brits told us that. On. Thank you guys so much. Gee, I want to hear some Mo- music. Yes, I give it up again for the banisters. With one end the banister. The song is called. It's our one and only song that's written with some Spanish words in it. Where this. Data. Store was scandal. Gringo. Not. His. Them while. Blow. Off! BALLPARK! He. Says Go. Just the simple. No? then. Burma. May. Awesome. He Yeah. Cats. So why don't you come into close? So accuracy DAMASIO. Zach braff. I won't go. Hey. Mississippi! Around here. They wish they do not you. Sweet Soup you. So that say you go. Brin Seven. Well. Thank you. Massive. A Yes, give it a all right banisters. Amos's live at Austin East siders. For we go back. We're GONNA. Play a tiny game for relief, but we'd like to give a shout out to our amazing patrons. Steven Jiang. Who is here taking pictures? Yes, as the always photographer he does. He takes pictures of US every week. It's so sweet so kind. You can check out his facebook We will drop a link in the comments, and we will be able to get you, so you can click and like and share whatever he's working on, so you can see what he's doing. He's amazing, beloved patron of ours, and we appreciate she. Stephen S. Thank you, Steve and Not like a monster guy, yeah. My pazder is so terrible and. Dislike hunched over this! Goal It's not very cute, but we tried hunchback. Thanks again to the banisters joining us. We're GONNA. Play a little game. That I feel like everybody knows to close out is never have I ever yellow. Play this game. Yes, y'all WANna, paddle everybody paddle. Paddle Yours at home. They're not the battles you would think. Why would be possessing? Yes, one side says I have the other side side had. Never one side says I have lived. The other one says I'm Brian. Piece of Shit never played this game before. We're going to ask you a question, and then you will throw up a side that says I have never or I have an. If you, we might ask you if you have your also audience. Uses as an excuse to drink. Because you need to be A. Steph. Yes pink scarf in the. See you yeah up to the sky. Okay wait so here's the deal. You guys drink every time you have obviously Then you can go back to the bar. Tip Your beautiful bartenders, because they are working hard beautiful outsider all right. You ready to start came once you kick the shit off. Okay, all right. Never have I ever been kicked out of a bar. ooh! Oh Okay One of you has the best one. Yes Jeff. Going Jeff is going back and forth or member. Then that makes sense you. Know why you got kicked out. You don't remember that's great, Geoff. How did you get kicked out? Played in bands in college when I was twenty, one and twenty two. Fair and we would finish. And then I then story ended I. Don't know what happened next. Their. Presumably. Yeah Watch out after the show. Her. Okay. Never, have I ever injured myself? While trying to impress someone I was interest. Oh, how many stories? So many times. Impress them. I feel like most of my life. I'm trying to impress myself. Yeah, no, you guys have in maybe isn't a girl. As you, are you? Are you know he's doing now? He's doing right never. It was physically definitely emotionally you. Count. As real inside, yeah, yeah, I ran into a tree, so the pain Israel and the outside with a high school, and there was a bunch of really cute guys one in particular. John that I really liked. r.i.p he's still alive. It's just. To Timmy love is damn, but so he was skateboarding and I was trying to be really cool, and so I was walking by doing a stretch and make an eye contact into what. POW To An oak. Yeah. It was. It was cool and I also I was trying to impress my kickboxing teacher, and that's when I tore my Achilles tendon actually with her at the time. Yeah I thought he came up I was like and kicked my leg. You're like when it like snap. He's just. A legacy forty kicks in my leg. I'm broken. Also the whole theory of a flirty kicked. The leg is broke. It happens all right Kim. What's your next question? I kick for love. Okay. So never have I ever re gifted something that I received. I am cheap, yes. You. Re Gifts. I hope they're listening. I feel like my entire Christmas. This year was just one round of Regan. Gifted banisters. Ivory Gifted. Gifts from my. Someone. BANISTERS initiative. Dice. We've thought people bought our merchandise gave it out for. Let me think. Yeah okay. I actually my dad. Is here so? Happened, he's never respected Johnny Irish gift beer all the time. People bring beard to my house, and if I don't like it I just bring it to another friend's house and leave it there. PIGGY. Are you about beer? I don't know if it's just something I'm not into dumb here though they're like. Let's make beer sour. Let's make bureau really hard to drink. In Beer. Okay I'm from yeah of. Kansas City years the shit. Always Been Gluten Beer Kim. Get with the time well. Okay well. There's some that don't have gluten in it. It's called CIDER AUSTIN CIDER drinking. Doesn't make your body hurt all right last one. Okay. Never, have I ever made out while listening to nickelback. I've never done that shit. Who? You. facially lost all. Oh did you put it on nurses? Started on. You didn't put it on Jeff. Just put his I have never on the front of his drums. Nina on the paint and the Santa Maria of never have I ever talked to nickelback. I appreciate that yeah, was he just did it pop up? Does Christmas because you said Fuck nickleback. Different. Like I have, but there was no kissing. Was There I've never? fucking. Who Yeah? That's what you said. You have kissed where you at nickelback concert or was it someone from nickelback? Trauma I hate to say it both. Concern and this is this is my deepest darkest secret. Nickelback was my first concert. Makes you feel better. If you ever anything about nickelback concerts. No, there actually plans to be there and they're all just brought there by somebody okay? That was me my aunt. She's like this is a cool thing. You're in music. I had like a sex pistols shirt. She's like free music diagnose. Dog hates you like the sex pistols. You'RE GONNA love. Nickelback so dragged me to the nickelback. Categories yeah, that was one time about what there multiple you said one time, said both one time live in one time it happened upon the radio. Why the make out session? raptly broccoli AU because. You're making onto. It's your song at your wedding, she. y'All thank you so much y'all. Got Up and coming, we cut the livestream and Y'all do a couple songs of the house like where you going to be, you're going. Yeah, we're actually we're going to be hitting the road for a long weekend with our buddies gasoline boots. We're going up to Norman. DALLAS, in Arlington Houston, so we're going to do like a little four day little mini tour. We gotTA show coming up in Mohawk later. This spring and we're playing. A couple shows over south by so it's all the website. Follow them all the various social media as they are all about. Please flick like share. Follow all that jazz I also heard. Lorraine is going on tour with you. GUYS, yeah! Lorraine's going. It's yes in the works. Yeah. He'll now. She's got baggage. She's a train. y'All gig of applause to Austin. CIDERS again for having. US insiders are beautiful sponsors. We've got ninety eight or nine minute whiskey tonight in siders. Are Incredible volunteers. Who without them? We would not be able to do that. Are Beautiful Patrons? Thank you, thank you, thank you, we need you. We live by you. Yeah God. One dollar you can for sexual. Surely knows yeah. Let's all also give a big plus for Miss Kim Stacy kicking off season. Thank you appreciate that and thank you. Becky Joe Neil I. Mean Come on. y'All. Let's give the banisters a big ass. Random applause, as we can't let this livestream and kick off the in House party. All thank you so much dangle, it's. Okay head over to comedians interviewing musicians dot live where you can get additional bonus, material and rewards, and you can find all the full videos on the music firsthand YouTube channel. Thanks for listening CNN time.

Lorraine Jeff Jeff Darwin Texas Austin Austin East siders Kim Stacey Wisconsin Miss Kim Stacy Becky Joe Neil US Darwin Texas facebook Ori nickelback John Austin
Bankrolling the Anti-Immigration Movement

The Daily

28:05 min | 2 years ago

Bankrolling the Anti-Immigration Movement

"From the new york times i'm michael barr. This is the daily today understock. Tell the story of a rich environmentally-minded heiress who helped sue the seeds of the modern anti immigration. My colleague nick coolish tells natalie kichler about his investigation in august kerr name is pronounced. The cordelia scaife may escape skiff. Tell me about cordelia escaped maze life as a young woman. Cordelia may was born in pittsburgh in nineteen twenty eight and when the first photos of her appeared on the front pages of newspapers around the country they asked could this be the richest baby and the world she was an heiress to the mellon family fortune they were barons of banking titans of industry with oil aluminum all the sort of might of pittsburgh distilled into cold hard cash she he was raised outside pittsburgh in a mansion that was known as penguin court because her mother was trying to breed and raise emperor penguins to wattle the ground. She was so excited they did. About admiral birds and arctic expeditions expeditions have been sent or are expected to descend by britain australia norway today russia and the argentine admiral buds but a show the biggest cordelia herself as a young girl was super into animals should purebred dogs a family had horses courses varied in nature and birds in particular you know from the outside. It seemed late. Cordelia have this fabulous life but <unk> actually she was quite unhappy. Her mother was an alcoholic and she wants to scribe that there was no laughter in her household growing up so what's the story that explains how she gets from that childhood to her interest in immigration policy. You know it's actually a long story. A story that begins in her youth with her are unlikely friendship or admiration for margaret sanger. The founder of planned parenthood board humanitarian sanger was a close friend of her grandmother's and someone she described as the only person who brought any joy into her house as a child initially she wasn't drawn to sanger because of her politics and her pursuit of family planning and birth control for women it was actually that she'd been to jail which appealed appealed to cornelius rebellious streak as a young woman says she thinks sanger's cool she thinks sanger's very cool but over time that friendship and her desire to emulate margaret sanger led her to engage deeply with planned parenthood and other birth control and population issues and at this point what is planned parenthood and sanger's work all about at that point is really about access to contraceptives right. It's about family planning. It's it's about taking women i in the united states and around the world from just having as many kids as they ended up getting pregnant with and choosing. I wanna i have two kids. I wanna have three kids. This is what i want to have them family planning in the most literal sense people that come to our organization and what have have the same methods or whatever it is at one can have to prevent the pregnancy those women say to us. I if we asked there canary often i am catholic raised the catholic church this my church is wrong on this and that is that over and over and over again and what about out that is attractive to may why is that interesting to this era's she was really passionate about the natural environment an and preserving at and that really dovetails with birth control for her because she sees overpopulation as destroying the habitats of the animals that she loved so much but in addition to that she was from what we read in her letter she was a feminist. She cared about women's issues. Women should have a right to plan their smaller families and the birds and the bees and their bunny rabbits should have as much room to roam as possible. So what does she do with that new focus well. She becomes involved with a group known as the population council which was founded by a member of another of america's great families john not rockefeller the third america's black gold was the foundation of his empire today the giants of the oil industry standards monuments to rockefeller the architect of our business. The population council goal was to lower birth rates around the world and she went to birth control clinics and in chicago she visited family planning efforts in korea and japan and taiwan and perhaps most importantly she and her family gave eleven point four four million dollars to the council during the nineteen sixties which was a lot of money in those days as time goes on you can see her already becoming becoming more militant in the nineteen seventies she's sort of pushing up against the population council desire to stick with contraceptives and keep abortion <music> at arm's length and she and her representatives are saying we have to make abortion upon request something that's available to all women. The pace of controlling population is to slow the growth of the global population is too much so she starts to take more hardline positions. Even though in this case it's about something we now think of as is a progressive measure which is universal access to abortion right exactly abortion appears to be less about family planning more about controlling the population so so where does her story go from here something very important and actually tragic takes place in her life in august nineteen seventy-three she secretly marries her childhood friend and longtime companion robert w duggan <music> and he's the district attorney for the county that includes pittsburgh and rather than a giant lavish wedding in you know in a cathedral somewhere they get married in a rinky-dink little room with knotty pine walls on lake tahoe uh-huh in nevada they pay a justice of the peace five dollars and perhaps more importantly they don't tell anyone so if your this heiress wide you have this quickey wedding well her longtime friend her longtime companion is under investigation investigation for corruption. He has apparently been taking payoffs from illegal gambling rings. You know to look the other way and essentially really his defense is getting the money from her. Unfortunately this defense does not work. The investigation and the prosecution nations are closing in on him and eventually he is indicted for tax evasion and on the day that he is indicted. He is found dead from a shotgun wound outside his country house. It appears that he shot himself. It's a self inflicted wound <music> so how does that tragedy affect her work it appears and there's a little speculation involved in this obviously but it it appears to make her a little more radical. There's a harder edge to her letters into what she's writing to people at that time after the tragedy and end her attitude toward family planning starts to change her aid goes to the population council and tells them that you know she thinks family planning is a waste of money. The rockefeller aide who takes the meeting says that he almost got the impression that she favored compulsory sterilization and for the first time something comes up that we'd never seen before which is the idea that quote the u._s. Should seal its border with mexico and how do you understand why she made this jump from being so focused on population control to immigration. There's a sort of confluence of events that helps offspring this about right dr erlich when the thought i come to you with it perhaps our time's mankind on earth was limited. All came in nineteen eighteen forty nine when i read population control was a really big concern with the baby boom. The thing that's important remember about population control is that if if we want to avoid a tremendous rise in the death rate we absolutely must have a tremendous decrease in the birth rate now. There's a famous book called the population bomb. A stanford professor named paul ehrlich so the first thing that can happen is that the president say from now here on out no intelligent patriotic american family <hes> what to have more than two children in preferably one. If you're starting a family now not any law say this is what responsible people do but in the late nineteen seventies the birth rate. It has fallen quite a bit. We're out of the baby boom at this point and among the biggest contributors to population growth in the united states is immigration. America was founded by immigrants. We are the so-called melting pot of the world and most of those immigrants entered this nation legally in nine hundred seventy eight order patrol apprehended close to nine hundred thousand unauthorized immigrants today however illegal aliens are great and continuing problem and another another six hundred thousand legal immigrants are also arriving the greatest number since the nineteen twenties. So if you're concerned is how many people are there in the united states. It's then you're focused shift toward immigrants. Does she seem to care who the emigrants are. Is there part of this. That's about race. She says says that it's not about race very closely. She says why can't we just imagine putting paper bags over the heads of the immigrants so we're only counting their deleterious numbers rather than being accused of racism because most of these people happen to not be white and yet in one of her most sort of strident documents. She isn't saying the norwegians or pouring into minnesota. It's filipinos in hawaii as she puts it. It quote orientals sneaking across the canadian border latin americans coming into florida and she says that the cuban refugees quote breed like hamsters hamsters so the language at least suggests that at least some of this is about racism. She says she isn't racist but the people that she's worried about are not the white immigrants it's immigrants from non white countries that she's preoccupied with. We'll be right back. What is decision tech by fidelity. It's technology that can help hope you find a stock based on what's trending orne investing goal. It's real time insights in information delivered in your own customized view of the market. It's smarter trading technology for smarter trading decisions and it's only from fidelity open an account today fidelity dot com slash trading fidelity brokerage services services l._l._c. member n._y._s._e. As i._p._c. hi my name is andy. Mills and i am a producer for the daily. I grew up in a town on of nine hundred people middle of nowhere. I didn't really have a clear idea of what it is that reporters here. Did i think maybe my might have had some version of the cartoon from the new yorker or something something when you see in the newspaper rukmini kalomo mozell what you need to realize is that behind that story is a reporter near the frontlines of a war crouch down in an abandoned house with her laptop and she's typing as fast as she can what she's been seeing so that it can zoom around the world world and be the headline next day to keep doing that kind of work. You need people to buy in to this experiment if you're wondering how can pitch in i and more reporting and maybe more shows like the daily exist. You probably have heard of our website. Just subscribe to the time just get a subscription to the new york times thaddeus nick. Why does this matter for the modern immigration movement. What exactly does that have to do with the evolving alvin views of this one rich woman it matters because cordelia escape may puts her money where her mouth is and she has a lot of money. Equally important is in one thousand nine hundred seventy eight. She meets a very unusual gentleman named dr john tinton an an officer who in his spare time likes to form political advocacy groups. He's an ophthalmologist who his side gig is. Forming public pressure groups it exactly he's he's like a character out of a frank capra movie up in the small town in michigan this very charismatic good looking square-jawed guy guy who's just great at getting people excited about an issue. It's weird but he's really good at it. He actually was involved in a lot of the same issues he was involved. In environmental environmental issues he was involved in a group called zero population growth which was exactly what it sounds like so through these circles from the population movement. Dr danton got acquainted with mrs may and he came to her seeking her help which is to say her money to get his group. The federation for american immigration reform off the ground and does she help out she does. She provides him with with fifty thousand dollars in seed money with the one condition that she remains anonymous. She is in the background. She is not tied to this work and he starts the group and she gives him more money and more money and more money to the point where air is an internal memorandum where he writes that. Mrs may has been our single biggest supporter. She just gave another four hundred thousand dollars. That relationship is pretty well under control and the more money that she gives him more ambitious he becomes he spins off the research research arm of fair into something called the center for immigration studies. The center for immigration studies a nonprofit public interest institution looking into immigrations effects on social sean economic interests in the u._s. He moves the legal litigation group and turns it into the immigration reform law institute for national public interest just organization working for rational immigration policies we seek to end illegal immigration and maintain legal immigration rates overall ceiling consistent with america's domestic priorities hardee's pretty soon. He's starting to build almost like an ecosystem of groups that reinforce each other. The center for immigration studies has a report that is cited by fair or is used in a legal memorandum. It's written by immigration reform law institute and it isn't clear to everyone that these groups are all coming from the the same place nick given that may comes from a very well known and very wealthy family. I wonder if they have a reaction to the way that she's certainly spending the family fortune. There are some family members who are also contributing to this cause but in one instance that really upset her she describes tribes in a letter how a young cousin asked her whether the causes she were supporting weren't discriminatory racist and what actually bothers me. The most is not accusation in that it could be racist or discriminatory but as she puts the one that really puts my teeth on edge elitist and so in response to this cousins question then she goes home and produces a five page typed response in which she tries to lay out her ideas and this is by the way a document that was never before public and i think is the most complete record of her ideas on this subject in her view legal and illegal immigration lead to overpopulation and that is responsible for a whole host of ills. She calls it. The root cause of unemployment it in flation urban sprawl highway skyway congestion shortages of all sorts not the least of which is energy vanishing farmland environmental until deterioration and civil unrest and you know she talks about how medical science has succeeded in reducing infant mortality ludi rates but it's juxtapose in the very same sentence with the idea of veterinarians prolonging the lives quote of useless cattle. You know she talks about how how birth rates have dropped in a few areas and millions die of starvation every year but population growth continue to climb and there's certain things it's uncomfortable when you read even wars no longer make much dent during eleven years of conflict both north and south vietnam showed putting net increase in population yikes and this is also the place where she talks about this idea that the country is being invaded did <hes> so help us understand maze actual impact on the development of this movement which feels so connected to the ideas that she's articulating here. Well there are all these groups. The big three that people think about the most are numbers u._s._a. The center for immigration studies and the federation for american immigration reform and they put their might together and are able to pressure sort of at all levels the government at the local level at the state level elizabeth the best mayor thomas done has instructed his city employees to speak only english during working hours the english only rule according to the mayor applies to business and private conversations as well pushing english language laws the senate judiciary committee began considering a proposed constitutional amendment to make english the official language language of the united states laws that make it tougher for illegal immigrants to live and certain towns california's republican governor pete wilson wants to cut off social services to illegal immigrants emigrants and to deny citizenship to the u._s. Born children proposition one eighty-seven that was meant to restrict public benefits to undocumented people in california. After he announced his proposals in august his poll ratings roads wilson finds support among members of such groups as the federation for american immigration reform. That's a national organization which contends that immigrants are a drain on america's resources because all the way up to congress the united states senate is debating a very vital issue for our country and that is immigration reform ours senators to continue to work toward a comprehensive bill one of the groups numbers u._s._a. They managed to get millions of calls and faxes and letters to congress. People republicans have been bolting from the president on this issue. Do they believe that he's absolutely tone deaf and he continues to go down this road even though many members of his party both in the house and the senate object and a lot of folks think that they're the most important reason that immigration reform was derailed under george w bush lead have never grassroots groups now working to stop them from getting the fifteen votes. They needed for cloture last. It's time and failed on the risk to the president he's not on the ballot again and he is believed in this from day one and so he wants this very much so he views it as a legacy item but the risk for the republican party is a lot of conservatives. I think if you pass this legislation some of the base will stay home in the two thousand eight elections and you will have even more damage after the heart ache of two thousand six of the republican party data's to calculation the president and his team disagree but many conservatives think if even just a little bit of our bay stays home more trouble so it seems like there's this broad base of support for all of these anti-immigration the ideas but in reality they are all stemming from one source which is mrs may right feels like a groundswell but then when you look back at their roots and when you look back at where their money is coming from mrs may and dr danton are always behind it and these groups the big three three that you mentioned these groups that have enormous resonance in today's political atmosphere right. I mean they have a ton of influence right. They have more influence. I'd say now than they ever have before and that's in part because they cultivated allies like we have a goal jeff sessions and that goal is to end the lawlessness business that now exist in immigration system who became attorney general. I put in place a zero tolerance policy for illegal entry on ask south west border. If you cross the southwest border unlawfully then we will prosecute you is that simple and his aide lead stephen miller who is now the most important person probably government when it comes to immigration issues like to thank everyone here today and especially at the center center from aggression studies everything they do to illuminate a debate that far too often operates like like the immigrants in the shadows and so you see these groups created through maize money cultivating allies in congress the key ones here are jeff sessions stephen miller and now we know these are folks who have brought their hardline immigration policies and beliefs with them to who the white house to the administration in many cases. It feels like they wrote the playbook and now miller is calling the plays and it goes beyond. It's just that border. Security is national security and we have a flood of drugs coming into this country and into our communities. Kellyanne conway president's adviser advisor was doing polling for these groups. I think a lot of people don't realize that obviously an increase in in gang members coming over other folks from fair from cis have moved moved into important positions in the government's immigration apparatus. We've got thirty one sanctuary cities six sanctuary states. You've got people wanna make us an entire sanctuary country we interesting democrats to come to the table and the honest with themselves and who they've been in the recent past and how do you see all these officials with ties to this movement influencing the trump administration's policies on immigration. They're inside the government now and they have the chance more so probably than ever before to enact an agenda that they've been pursuing everything from militarizing the border until we can have a wall and proper security. We're going to be guarding our border with the military to capping legal immigration nation prioritizing skills over family ties in terms of who we let in another shift in president trump's immigration policy as the administration announced it would deny the green cards to immigrants who seek out food stamps medicaid and other forms of public assistance while favouring wealthier immigrants president trump has once again delivered on on his promise to the american people to enforce long standing immigration law you see most recently reducing access to public benefits for migrants for legal migrants france rule that encourages and insures self reliance self sufficiency for those seeking to come to or to stay in the the united states like this new rule that was issued on public charges. If people are not able to be self sufficient than than this negative factor is going to bear very heavily heavily against them <hes> in a decision about whether they'll be able to become a legal permanent resident the over arching idea they started with fewer people and for that you you have to do legal as well as illegal immigration nick. Do you think that without cordelia escape may these views don't become mainstream mainstream. Should her money be seen as the critical driver for the movement. That's a that's a really good question because look i mean there. There are a lot of tectonic forces at play in the world like offshoring an automation and migration driven driven by climate change that really helped push this onto the agenda and would have anyway even if there wasn't a mrs may but what is undeniable liable is that four decades of well-funded groups able to push these ideas with her money now gaining political power and literally being part of making the policy. I think it's very fair to think of her as a driver of this issue as well as this movement. Thank you so much nick. Thanks for having me aw we'll be right back. <music> the emmy nominated h._b._o. Drama succession is back picking up where the first season left off the new sees the roy family fighting for control of its empire kendall is now firmly under the thumb of father logan even as he jockeys for power with siblings shift connor in roman not to mention the exploits of tom and cousin greg ketchup up now on the show critics call deliciously savage and summer's best t._v. New episodes of succession air sunday nights at nine only on h._b._o. And here's what else you need. In the capital of afghanistan a suicide bomber hosing as a guest at a wedding blew himself self up on saturday night killing at least sixty three people and wounding one hundred and eighty two it was among the most lethal attacks on and civilians there in the past few years and highlighted the limits of a proposed peace deal between the u._s. and the taliban which is responsible for most violence in the country saturday suicide bombing was claimed by an affiliate of isis not the taliban and congressional democrats and republicans are criticizing a decision by israel to bar two members of the house where shooter to leave and ilhan automarket from traveling to the country israel barred the lawmakers at the request of president trump both are highly critical of israel's els treatment of palestinians but it appeared that israel was prepared to allow them in until trump intervened both to lead an omar. We'll address the travel restrictions during a news conference later this morning yeah. That's it for the daily. I'm michael barr seat him off <music>.

president united states margaret sanger cordelia scaife america pittsburgh new york times michael barr rockefeller trump israel thaddeus nick congress Mrs Dr danton stephen miller emmy
Vote Today, Georgia! | 1/5/21

Pat Gray Unleashed

1:34:20 hr | 9 months ago

Vote Today, Georgia! | 1/5/21

"Path grade is here on the radio network. Thanks for being with us. Triple eight nine hundred thirty. Three ninety-three also would pat unleashed on twitter. The georgia's senate runoff election has begun. It's seven o'clock eastern as we begin the show today so if you're a republican you're conservative. You believe in freedom and you live in the state of georgia please. By all that is good right and holy get to the polling booth and and vote for one of these two republican won't for both of these republicans cheese It is critical so critical This reverend warnock is not just an extremist. I think the guys evil. And i think he's a danger an anti-american danger to our society along the lines we've talked about before of jeremiah wright. He is packaged nicely in ads. However is over. Who 'cause you you get a chance. I don't know how you get a chance to see Atlanta tv from time to time. Yeah right magic. yeah Through the magic of technology you get to see local tv in atlanta. And so you've seen a lot of their ads nonstop and and it's all in the packaging living through the brook obama campaign of two thousand eight all over again. He's you know he's a radical ultimately painted that way really. Oh no no oh they do such a great job. Commonsense reforms like my opponent is saying this. And that and i just want to work hard for america. My parents raised me to blah blah blah. And all gosh. Oh it's convincing. Absolutely listen to this guy sermons from the best and you'll know just like we knew jeremiah wright. The guy's a flaming extremist anti-american and in my humble opinion evil. Yeah in my humble opinion at the same splendid evil evil ads are painting both republicans there's one ad Where they just group law flower and produce together in their extravagant lifestyles. At i mean i have no idea if they have them but again. It's very convincing. But that's the big knock on them. Is they're wealthy so what it's just. It's despicable how wealth has become evil in this country. Divide and conquer and they're doing it so effectively so effectively so polls bit over for three minutes. Aren't you there. Why aren't you sitting here listening. And listen to this anytime. That's right via podcasts. Which could find wherever. Podcasts are available so so do that let your friends and neighbors family members loved ones people. You don't like let everybody know where they can get the show you know and i don't want to hear well. My vote doesn't matter anyway. We never got this thing resolved with the voting and election. Make it harder for them to steal the election. If that's what they're gonna do make it impossible for them to steal the election. Make them after steal so many votes that it'll be. It'll be obvious even to cnn but the election was stolen. Please just please vote in this election in georgia because if we don't win at least one of the two seats while are we in trouble. Remember what two months ago. It was assumed that the republicans have this. I mean they just have to win one right. I will remind you of the state of georgia history of having leads late. Whether it's the alkan bulldogs right well and three million people already voted early. So you know that's more to the democrats and republicans. Yes so it's super important for you to do this today and get out and vote if you live in georgia man. It is so important. The consequences of a double loss are oh catastrophic. Really that's the word it'd be catastrophic and don't forget in georgia by the way if you happen to be a democrat. You're listening the election For you tomorrow night. So that gave a little extra time so that you didn't have to hurry to the polls at once ya they know you don't work and so you stay up all night you know boozing and doing drugs so they wanted to give you some extra time. It'll be tomorrow morning and you recall. They've learned their lesson. Georgia remember the long lines in georgia. Back in november okay. How do we do this. We want to prevent that and so they split the election to republicans today democrats tomorrow to try to suppress sure. If you're if you're that stupid did you believe the dick. Democrats vote on wednesday. You deserve that. Then you deserve it okay. You're you're trying to suppress shoot. Yeah sure whatever democrats will tomorrow triple eight nine hundred thirty three ninety-three also at pat unleashed on twitter regarding the hacking voting machines. Yesterday we talked about the possibility of the voting machines through the smart thermostats. That happened we didn't really understand. That sounds bad. But how do they do that. So we got this from. I can play victim to In case you're curious completely possible to hack a network through a smart device like a smart thermostat is specially if you have an insider feeding you information like passwords once connected to the smart device. You're connected to the network but you'd have to have someone on the inside and we know that everybody that's part of the election is completely on the up and up. You could never get anybody to be this with you. So it kills his thesis right. So that's just silly. I can play victim to that. Just silliness ahead. So yeah there we go and again you know the nest systems and that's the only one to my knowledge that you can do that with maybe. There's others maybe there's other competitors. Now in the next market owned by google civil owned by google. Remember what effort we first started. I was still in houston when we first started hearing about these and the big scary thing then was well they could turn your thermostat up and down or turn off your air conditioning. If they want wish it was just something that simple and and that innocuous too hot in my room for me okay y- jerk wad because of global warming now. They're changing the election results from your thermostat okay. Well that escalated quickly. Yeah did it really. I would definitely say if you're switching to nest or something like that hang on your old ones. Yeah it's it'll tell you. I don't like the nest. We have the nest all over the house because my wife put him in before. I was able to warn her not to do that. Because i don't know they're listening to us they're monitoring us. They're changing our thermostat. The the stinking thing does things on its own all the time all the time. Walk into a room and it'll be you know seventy six degrees. I wanted it seventy and like who turned up the third. I didn't i didn't nobody. The house did it. It's swears they didn't try and outsmart you say what you were here yesterday at this time. Well it learns. They didn't want to turn it up to seventy six. I've never done that in my life. Who taught it that. It sucks and it doesn't save us money. I i mean it does things all the time that we haven't trained to do so. I don't know where that's coming from. I think they are manipulating it. Wherever they are so. I hate it anyway. You think you think an individual is doing that or the unit neither the unit. Okay yeah i think the unit is doing so. Would you change to something a different game. Rather go back to just the dump thermos. Stay with so you're not even necessarily sold on the smart no. I don't want that. I don't want the smart technology. I just want to dumb unit that i put it there and it stays. There can't be manipulated by anybody outside our house. But here's a hypothetical Let's say you're about to leave town for a week. And you tell your wife as the car is running as you head to the airport you say. Hey go turn the air up down whatever you know what. I mean So that we're not freezing out the house while we're gone and paint And then you. You're back a week later in the houses ice cold and you're angry and all the money that you spend for no reason at all So would you want the smart metering smart thermostat in that case so that when. You're on the tarmac. You're like oh He didn't do it dear. No because hypoc clean hypothetical making this up. Really kinda strangely specific. No i mean it would be nice to be sitting there going. Oh you didn't so you don't do you have the smart technology like that. No yes no. I've been burned. i'll say that. Yeah all right. So that's where it's convenient. Yeah i know he gets you man. I know i will tell you about a technology. i absolutely love. I mean it's not that i'm a luddite. I do enjoy technology like this weekend With church driving a couple of separate cars. My wife and i were in one daughter and granddaughter were in another and so at the end of church host. I put my granddaughter enter carseat and in order to do that. I had to put my ipad up on the roof of the car and i was. I thought as i put the ipad on the roof hayes just like that commercial where the guy puts the fish little goldfish up on the roof. And then he still has it when he gets to his destination. But i'd never do because my bad means far too much. Ever forget it. So i put her in the car seat and get her. All buckled in and slams. Shut the door and walk to my car and Realize when i get home my gosh. I left my ipad on on the roof of my car so it quickly call her and i said i i left my ipad on the roof is still there. So she pulls over looks and of course. It's gone so she drives back looking for it then. It was nowhere to be found. So i'm thinking i drive all the way back to the church to see if anybody turned it in no luck there so i go home again and then my daughter reminds me of the. Find your iphone thing. That apple has and i think man minds not going to do that because i never. I've never used it. You've never activated faded. It i've never touched it. I don't remember registering it if you have to do that. I don't know what the deal is with that. So i just i have never used it so i just searched. Find my phone and so the app comes up. I click on the app and a map comes up and at the bottom of the map. It says pats ipad and it's flashing the address where the ipad supposedly is. And it's it's fees. it's jeff jeff talking it on ebay. It's actually added address. Maybe two blocks from the church. And so i think that really could be there. Is this possible that literally did find my ipad in an emergency like this. So i drive to this location. I have no idea. If it's you know on the side of the road at this address or somebody picked it up and took it in some bomb was like get away from me right mine. I don't know if i'm going to be shot in the face when i go to their door. I have no idea so. I pull up to this house. Have no idea who these people are walking into the door. Knock on the door. Older lady comes to the door and says yeah like. Did you by any chance find an ipad. Oh yeah we did so. They found in the middle of an intersection and brought it home. And they said they were gonna call. At and t. Because you know they couldn't get through my my password to get in and find out who's who's ipad it was but how is that that you can lose your ipad like that. It can fall off the roof of a car and landed in the middle of an intersection and some stranger finds it takes it home and you can track them down. I think what's amazing so amazing this lady acting like. Oh yeah. I was totally going. Oh yeah totally. We're gonna turn that baby in you. Bet yeah just give me a few minutes. I don't. I don't know what good it would have done unless they could have had my password Maybe they could've sometime the nuclear codes. I do yes. I can launch it anytime i want so anyway. Really cool technology What we did before some of this stuff. I don't know but if you can travel you someone else cantu. Yeah that. And that's the other thought i had if this was ever used against us. But we're all being rounded up and we're headed right to write to the concentrate never had been never happened. Don't even worry about it. That's ridiculous i mean. Let's say good things are going better. Let's just say one party got complete power but that would never happen. No right 'cause everybody's concerned about the balance of power everybody wants you know the dual government. Nobody wants the just one party system. Nobody wants sat go vote. We'll just all rest easy after a georgia voters in those two senators and the republican party. All right let me take sixty seconds and tell you about express. Vpn speaking of technology. How did you choose which internet service to us said thing. Most of us have very little choice. Because isp's operate like monopolies in the regions they serve then they use this monopoly power to take advantage of customers data caps streaming throttles. You know all of that. But worst of all a lot of isp's logger internet activity and then sell that data to other big tech companies or advertisers. And that's what you get those crappy ads popping up all the time to prevent. Isp's from seeing my internet activity. I protect all my devices with express. Vpn so what is it what is expressed vpn. It's a app for your computer or your smartphone than encrypt all your network data and tunnels it through a secure. Vpn kind of pins all over the world. like if you've ever seen jason bourne. He does that. He ping's his location so they can't trace him and find him. The same can happen for you and don't give me the well. I don't care if they know where. I am not doing anything wrong. You're not the one who decides whether or not you're doing something wrong. That's for somebody else to decide. Unfortunately so stop handing over your personal data to isp's and other tech giants who mine your activity and sell off your information. Protect yourself with the vpn. I trust to keep me private online. It's expressed vpn dot com slash unleashed express e. x. p. r. e. s. s. vpn dot com slash unleashed to get three months free right now express. Vpn dot com slash unleashed. This is pat gray. here's something pretty amazing. I thought of freed zaccaria and cnn made a very unusual admission. The other day free zaccaria was on their morning show with her face. Who used to be at fox is now on. Cnn and has been totally converted to the dark side Apparently she embraced her anger. And then She she came to To embrace the dark. Side allison cameron. Yes alison cammarata. So she's asking for reads ikaria. About what kind of foreign policy changes. There's going to be because now there's biden instead of trump afraid. What about the dynamic with our perceived enemies like iran russia perc- they're perceived. I think in general there isn't going to be as much difference as people imagine The the the biden folks pretty tough on russia iran north korea. The dirty little secret about the trump administration was that right donald from at clearly. How to kind of soft spot for putin diddy. The trump administration listen. He's about to give you the dirty little secret now. It's only a dirty little secret because cnn tried to keep it from everybody who watches that crappy chance pretty tough on the russians. They aren't dirty. Little secret was that donald trump's pretty tough on the russians. Are you kidding me. you've gone from. He was collaborating with them to. He was pretty tough on them only after the election. Now you admit yeah the dirty little secret that we kept her you guys. This whole time was actually pretty tough on the russians way. he's amazing. This is curry of the guy who wrote the book. The post american world. Yes that's the man. That's the one ukraine they armed the polls. They extended nato Operations exercises in ways. They even the obama administration had not done the sanctions. I don't think it would be that different. The that is amazing. Only now at the end to we tell the truth. Incredible just incredible. I mean really. I don't know how they live with themselves. I don't know how they look at themselves in the mirror every day that somehow they find a way. Triple eight nine hundred thirty three ninety three. I also find this fascinating. Boris johnson prime minister of great britain announced yesterday. Another national lockdown for england. But don't worry about it it's just until mid-february just a six week lockdown. Don't even worry about it. We just need to stem the spread. Got this new variant. Oh by the way it's called the uk variant. Which is that racist. And how how're you labeling. That after a country. I thought that was the worst thing you could possibly do. So britain is ramping up. Its vaccination program becoming the first nation to start using the shot developed by oxford and drugmaker. Astrazeneca i. i don't think i even knew about oxford having a vaccine available. But they're going to use that Johnson said people must stay home again as they were ordered to do it in do so in the first wave of the pandemic in march this time because the new variant was spreading in a frustrating and alarming way. He says speak to you tonight. Our hospitals are under more pressure from covid than anytime since the start of the pandemic so from today on primary and secondary schools and colleges be closed for face to face learning except for children of key workers and vulnerable pupils university. Students will not be returning until at least mid february people were told to work from home. Let's absolutely impossible and leave home. Only for essential trips All shops that are non essential and personal care services like hairdressers. Barbers closed and restaurants can be open only for takeout. So here we go again in great britain. I don't know. Didn't you learn anything from the first time around a it doesn't help be it cripples your economy and see it kills people in other ways so i don't know why why you would do this. Have twenty six thousand six hundred twenty six covid nineteen patients in hospitals at an increase of more than thirty percent from a week ago forty percent above the highest level of the first wave in this spring. Wow now foul. She told us we learned yesterday that you have to have seventy to seventy five percent of people being vaccinated in order to have herd immunity. And then it was actually. It's more like eighty eighty five percent maybe even ninety percent have to be vaccinated before we can have herd immunity and then he was challenged on that. Actually by somebody at cnn and He kind of sort of in a roundabout mealy mealy-mouth way admitted. Yeah just kind of throw out those numbers because he can't be exact. We don't really know what the number is. But i want people to listen to us. Oh okay so you just want to manipulate us. Well that's fine. don't worry about it. Amazing he's also in an in an interview with newsweek. He also floated the possibility that the coronavirus vaccine would be made. Mandatory for things like school and travel. Who shocker. yeah stunning surprises. Not see this coming explained that there could be a possibility of introducing covid nineteen vaccine passports. We've heard that that Tossed around a few times when asked if there was the possibility that the vaccine could be mandatory for school voucher explained. That is possible. But that's something that's mandated at the state level and city level. A citywide school system might require it in some cities but not in other cities. And that's what i mean by things. Not being done centrally but locally. When she was asked of the possibility that the vaccine would be mandatory for travel. He responded yeah. That's quite possible. Good all right. Well don't worry about it. Then and biden also alluded to that by talking about interstate travel. Wow however he doesn't think that the coronavirus vaccine will be made mandatory at the federal level. That means it will always the opposite. This is just stand yesterday. It could be completely different by now. Yeah that that that was printed off probably a couple hours ago and by the time it came out of the printer. He changed his mind We almost never mandate things federally. He said i'm not sure. It's the covid. Nineteen vaccine is going to be mandatory from a central government. Standpoint like federal government mandates. But there are going to be individual institutions that. I'm sure are knowing demanded. Then i'm not gonna want to. Well the future looks great doesn't it. He's already been appointed as the chief medical advisor for president-elect biden and stress that it's not up to me to make a decision but these are all things that will be discussed under the biden administration. That's all the same kind of bs tried to fall during The trump administration When he went back and forth on single issue literally every issue. And then we're supposed to follow the science. Well which cites the science that he believed yesterday or the science that we're hearing now today The science that was back in march or the science that was back in january or the science that we understand as it exists today. It's just it's asinine and yet if you don't believe every word out of his mouth you're some kind of cook. What's weird is that. Our local weatherman have better accuracy. Ratings than dr fauci yet. No-one's lighting candles for praying to saint weatherman. No right isn't this amazing his his car. Sort i really. I really don't understand it. Plus he turned eighty right. He just turned eighty years old. Might wanna retire might you. That's what i was thinking. This might be a good time I don't know it seems like a really good time when you're eighty to retire. Meanwhile studying has investigated the effects of covid. Nineteen vaccine on male fertility lead researchers. Dr ranjith rome acidy ramasamy a reproductive urologist with you health initiated an earlier study which found the virus was present in the testicles for up to six months following in day. There's another fun. Little thing that we could discover together that spurred his team to question whether the viruses effect on What what what. The effect was on Sperm and reproduction of word. I like to say on the air very very off. Yeah a matter of fact His team has now looking at the potential impact of the vaccine as well so not just the virus. But can the vaccine make you sterile and What a surprise. We're looking into that possibility when we've got bill gates what are the main funders of This whole movement who has spoken often about vaccines and controlling the population. They're also saying pregnancy and pregnancies women so fertility in men and it might hamper pregnancies in your ability to get pregnant because of the attack. It's happening there with the vaccine and zero population guy. Like bill gates is involved. Don't connect dots really interesting stop it. We're evaluating the sperm parameters. I love doing that. Don't you like to evaluate sperm parameters. That's hobby of mine gonna find you better word and quality before the vaccine and after the vaccine from the biology of the co vaccine. We believe it shouldn't affect fertility. But we want to do the study to make sure that men who want to have kids in the future them. It's safe to go ahead and get the vaccine. Stick with the stick with stick. Earners a better. A lot of good alternatives for radio purposes this synonyms. Or not there so yeah. I wonder if i could find that. Bill gates Discussion on zero population. This is where he was talking about his his dad and some of his feelings on population growth. That really grabbed me as urgent Was were issues related to population Reproductive health did you come to reproductive issues as an intellectual growing up. My parents were always involved in various volunteer things. My dad was Had a planned parenthood. It was very controversial to be involved with that. He went it. was that well. That's crazy it was to be involved with an organization who slaughters children babies show. How could that be controversial. I don't understand reproductive-health yeah yeah. Thank you amazing. Connect those yeah. You don't wanna do that. You don't wanna connect any dots kazan. It scares the hell out of you. gray thanks for returning with us. Just reward you. We got the traffic and weather together. Every three minutes on the fours all day blake nine hundred thirty. Three ninety-three got some tweets here as well from d. m. x. Dm if they can do that with an ipad Find it via. Gps think of what they can do and they start demanding we have all the chips implanted for our safety. Small myth bass kurt. I lost my cell phone with my guns in a boating. Accident it amy. They're tracking own from precedent south carolina. Pat you did the long running joke about democrats voting on wednesday and georgia. Don't democrats actually vote after the election nowadays anyway and then have those votes counted. Yes ice light so we're going to get to the election. The voting booth to day and vote republican in those senate races. There's a new study out published in the peer review journal nature communications that said careers of female scientists. Get this how dare they say this. Just because it's what they found in their study doesn't mean they should say anything about it. So they found that the careers of female scientists who have had female mentors suffer as result and do better under male mentors and they came under fire on twitter about that. People were outraged by their scientific findings. So they just. They withdrew the the paper mazing. The journal directed directly reacted to the pressure by saying they would investigate the matter as a priority and so they did and the criticism kept coming so they just they just withdrew love the entire study it just. The study was retracted. Because it just doesn't fit the narrative the narrative now is that men and women are the same or you can go ahead and say women are superior that's okay But you also were also getting the were. There can be no men or women. There's just all some sort of neutral thing that exists right now and that was shown to us by the reverend representative in congress who uttered this prayer. The name of the monotheistic god brahma and got known by many names by many different fates. We they man and woman he men and a woman was bra. I don't know what what is it. He says the beginning does he found it. Okay i thought it was brahma which is a type of boll. Yeah no It's it's a god. It's the creator god in hinduism at. That's who the reverend the methodist. Okay so he specifically named the hindu god. It's play that again. we ask it. In the name of the monotheistic god brahma and got garoppolo many names but many different fates. I'm not going to name them because they woman there's so much there's so much screwy there that it's although you know what he's onto a he's onto something. I think we need to start altering some of these gendered words and And just even it out. You know mandatory. i mean how. How often have we use the word. Mandatory shouldn't that be woman dettori now really syllables manifesto about women defacto maneuver. Should be woman uber. A mannequin should become a woman. A woman can own will mimicking Mannerism i'm so sick of that sexist word it should be woman or ism recommendation. Should be woman dacian. Disappoint ment about disappoint woman. I we we need to start. We need to start changing the way we think about things in the way we speak about things in thank you for this reverend representative in congress cleaver. I think his name is your representative cleaver. I think it was saves. Eighty four on twitter last night. Who pointed out. His name is emmanuel great. Oh how ironic. Isn't that ironic don't you don't you think a little too ironic amazing triple eight nine hundred thirty. Three ninety. Three also at pat unleashed twitter. It's just gotten to the point where you either laugh about it or your head explodes. Every single stink day every single day. Yup Triple eight nine hundred thirty. Three ninety-three also Something that was a little bit embarrassing over the weekend Trevor lawrence was doing a post game press conference after clemson had lost to ohio state. Now trevor lawrence probably going to be the almost for sure is going to be the first person taken in the nfl draft. That comes up in Let's see april when the draft happens. May you if broiler may well hold on the kicker girl from vanderbilt. Yeah not going number one. It's a good point. I mean you know why. She's not going numbers the sexism. That's why veto ask why clear unadulterated sexism after all. She kicked an extra point right in that that. Kick off a twenty yarder jacksonville. We on the clock. Make your decision in this. Pc world we pick With the first pick in the draft. What's her face from vanderbilt. So does the ground clown extra point ask how many extra points the jaguars this year. We're gonna find out so great. We should push for her to be a otherwise. What is it but sexism. that's all it can be. I don't know what else it could be. I mean she she burst onto. The scene was a massive star. It's all anybody talked about for about two weeks. She should be the number one. Pick in the draft penn. Gray listen to this okay. The jaguars had articles. Not showing me. But i know in november. They had already had their sixth kicker of the year. All you're kidding. So i wanted to find out how many they ended up because of injuries or i didn't perform well She should absolutely the knee. There's a need their quarterback the get. What's her face from. Vanderberg is it. Sarah sure yes yes. It is zero voller yoga sarah fuller with the number one pick in the nfl draft the jacksonville. Jaguars choose sarah fuller kicker vanderbilt. How do we know we're gasp. We're finally we're headed to the top in the jets would still screwing up number two ever going with a four string linebacker cheese. That's unbelievable so anyway. They're interviewing the presumed because of sexism. The preserves presumed number one pick trevor lawrence quarterback from clemson and something slightly embarrassing happened Here's a reporter She's on mute and she doesn't like the mustache then. Trevor just grew game or shave stash. Don't it's a great reaction from him. Thank you poor. Trevor needs to shave his stash. Yeah thank you. But i mean she's right about that but maybe the time you wanna take yourself off yet. There's talk that the jaguars will be able to play less in london overseas because of the Injection of having him as their vase in their franchise in what that could mean to the jaguars financially and now. Maybe they won't be pendant because they're always a part of these. London games every really so big happenings down there and how much money going to save on income tax as low as opposed if the jets had taken him. Oh yeah well hey well. Percent of his money put winning in new jersey. I'll twelve percent just twelve percent state tax or is that just the new york city tax. That would be new jersey right. And i don't think it's not quite as high as as new york city but he's also playing in a in a division that doesn't have a lot of income tax because he's in houston every year. Right in nashville. So right he saving quite a bit of money by the jaguars picking him than the jets. M we're assuming that's happening. I may not. I mean if the jacksonville jaguars come to their senses and take sarah fuller instead. I'm sorry there was a lot of assumptions. Rather were there were. We re can't necessarily totally assumed that they're going to do the wrong thing. And take the best quarterback in the country They could have a kicker who wants made an extra point they could have. They could have her. I don't know how they pass on that. They had six kickers in one season. Well that was in november. I mean i think is more as rob. Says they only have to pay seventy cents on the dollar so you can keep the salary cap and check their right but you know they call the last pick mr relevant I mean what if somebody if somebody picks her then they had to say miss element and would you a task irrelevant. No you female. That it's now now that it's a woman if it would be if she were the two hundred and fortieth picker. Whatever they do in the last pick is in the seventh round. Then you couldn't you couldn't use that for city law. I mean really. You couldn't you couldn't now. She's not going to be of course draft by anyone But if she were all bets are off. You can't say anything negative about her thing. That ever happened in twenty twenty one as a pr move. Maybe signing her after the draft inviting her to camp so the cameras will be there in. I'm telling you could happen it. All of course could of course it good. Anything can happen in this new reality by the way speaking of football. This is kind of a cool story russell. Oh kong became the first. Nfl player to ever be paid part of his salary in bitcoin. In may of twenty nineteen. Nfl offensive line lineman russell. Oh kong wrote on twitter that he wanted his salary to be paid in bitcoin And apparently the the team went along with it. Said yeah okay. We'll pay part of your salary and bitcoin. So he's receiving half of his thirteen million dollar salary base for the twenty twenty season in bitcoin now when they purchased the bitcoin and made that part of his salary was about six and a half million dollars right and it was six and a half million dollars worth of bitcoin at five to eight thousand dollars per coin. Yeah somewhere in there yeah. We know that it's now thirty. Three thousand dollars. They were going so why wait. What thirty three thousand per coins. How much would that six. And a half susie. We're so let's say at the low end. I'm out on this by the way so don't even ask me grab calculator. Whatever it's worth on the low end of got five thousand coin six almost seven times its value. Yeah so his six and a half million now becomes forty five million so the very least she four-times yeah at the very least. It's four times as much which is almost thirty million. That's exciting good for him. What a great idea. That guy's brilliant. No wonder last week. He tweeted out paid in bitcoin. Yes i see what you're doing there you're flexing for us. That's seriously smart. The company claims. Oh kong who's now with the carolina. Panthers is the first player in league history to receive part of his annual paycheck in the form of digital currency. If i were him. I think i'd cash out bitcoin portion right now. Because who knows what's going to happen. It's already down below thirty this morning. Okay 'cause yesterday. It was at thirty three thousand dollars. Yeah a little bit though Let me just check here at this exact moment it is. Oh it's back up to pushing thirty two so it's volatile. Though i mean it went up to nineteen member that a couple years ago went up to one thousand. Nine thousand then crashed down to three thousand. Yep so it's all over the place but yeah Darren mcfadden remember him. Yeah he thought he put two hundred and thirty seven million dollars in bitcoin. Live three to cash out. This was about three years ago. so let's see. So he no he he three million and bitcoin. It should have been worth to thirty seven when he came calling for his Payment and his investment broker said. Oh yeah i never. I never did that my bad. Aw oh my gosh lawsuit. Really told his guy to purchase bitcoin. It's tragic his guy didn't do it any thought he did and then found out. Yeah old story. No sorry yeah. I'm sorry that's that's not good enough. I'm going to have to take control your company now. Yeah so so yes so mcfadden. Signed a six year sixty million dollar deal took three million instead bitcoin it and when it was worth supposedly two hundred and thirty seven million up his guy and this guy was like oh my bet is there no recourse for that. I would got some recourse suggestions. We probably don't wanna see him on the air. Wow i don't know how this played out because this was three years ago. I'm seeing an article from then. I don't know if he took him to court and i mean what can you do. It's not like the guys like all right your check for that. Two hundred thirty seven million. I screwed you. i'd be pissed and with no recourse. Except i guess you could sue him but again you're never gonna get that to thirty seven mill now. You're not stinks man yet. Cut it does triple eight nine hundred thirty three ninety three. I mean i can't tell you how many times people told me you need to. You need to buy bitcoin. Yeah i'm going to. I'm going to get around to that. At three hundred five hundred at one thousand two thousand and four thousand at five thousand eight thousand now. It's almost thirty to do that with a lot of stuff pants. Yes yes they did yes. They did a really really a genius. Financial wizard triple eight nine hundred thirty three ninety three more pat gray unleashed coming grain with triple eight. Nine hundred thirty three ninety-three also had unleashed on twitter. Where sarcastic meet dust tweets yet another visit to the polls or thousands of others could have used my id because my face was covered and they never looked. I feel so secure in our voting process. Right now do it anyway though. Please please do it anyway. But yeah i mean when you're wearing a mask and they don't ask you to take it down. Are you supposed to ensure that is. you're not. that's the point. You can't slightly venomous kirk tweets. If keith accidently took pats on Impact came to get it could keith. Follow pat and finally find where he lives. Well i couldn't get to eat cells in the first place because as you know there are no roads between my house and his gonna miles. We wanted to go yeah. I'm a follow you from that. I know well. I can't get to your house to get my ipad because oh is that what he sold. Yeah there's no road. I misheard beatable tweets. So women don't make good of mentors as men or and from swank think it's women with an x. Please do not use gendered language personal privilege. Right go ahead yeah young. He's do not use gender language took everyone thought to address everyone okay good. I'm glad we got that settled in a real clear Few minutes ago we were talking about Bill gates and the vaccine and the fact that the vaccine. They're looking into whether or not it can cause infertility in men plus pregnancy issues for women. I don't even understand how that would be possible. I mean bill gates is involved. Here's here's some of the wonderful things bill gates said in the past about vaccines the side effects for the moderna vaccine sound concerning we looked after the second at least eighty percent of participants experienced a systemic side effect. I'm from severe chills fevers. So are these vaccine safe. Well the only a the impression will look hard at the f. The gold standard of regulators guidance. On this and i'm not answering your question with that is at a very appropriate very and i have no idea what i'm saying. The detects for naught super severe. That is didn't cause permanent health for right or things they did have to go with fairly high dose. And so the you know Seems is it might go. Msnbc where am i. Right now Reports that are pretty high. Including the dan jay in the and so there's a lot of characteristics of these vaccines. It's great that we have multiple of them. It is it's great erin. The data but the bill. Bill data that everybody with a high dose had a side effect. Well is dramatic where super piano super painful thoughts of your side. Hand massive hemorrhage him Fever bleeding out of eyeballs. Some people's arms fell off but they're still breathing right. Now we want you know are the infertile. yes But that's a good thing because we have less mouths to feed less global warming. And the things you can do with a tale right and so i. I'm sorry what network i on right now. Are you making me think and squirm a little bit here. I expect this from fox but not from you. People his opening response. I had to write so great here. It is yeah. The fda not being pressured will dot dot dot the fda. Not being. Why do you have to point that out. Not not what pressure. Cages say the. Fda's going to discuss this or give us their feedback. The fda not being pressured their gold standard and we I don't really know how to wiggle out of this question. Look i mean he sucks at this. Wow that's not used to it. He's not used to challenged on anything. He's the great bill gates. He's like the odds behind the curtain. Don't challenge him or you're gonna find. There's an empty suit behind Behind the curtain. That's all there is seriously there. Were more us in the actual words. Sh yeah is it safe freezing. You should be ready can you. Would you would have thought. She just asked him. Where did you obtain all your technology to get. Microsoft started well I visited xerox. Ibm and they left a lot of stuff laying around. But i didn't notice really sorry. The fda is the gold standard way. I'm not asking you anything related right now. Bill that's great. that's probably practices. Answer now yeah you should and you know they're going to start playing journalists now What's her face from. I guess she's on. Cbs now she was on msnbc. Msnbc is savannah guthrie in nuoro. Donald thinks donald yeah ubs. Right i get her confused. But i guarantee you the producer called bill gates or his people said it's going to have you on just you know. Can you just calm the fears of people that say it's not safe. You know blah right. It's it was a softball though total softball. Because it's not safe. She's eighty percents of people are experiencing severe chill chills fever in the day following. Well i mean that is a pretty high percentage of people who are getting sick right away from from the vaccine. And i know you know it's better than having calvin and dying but ninety nine point eight seven percent of people survive it see. Here's the thing as one who's head cove. It has been flat out for two weeks I've already had something in my body that was manufactured in a lab. Thank you very much. I don't need a second. One king keep from a bat. What are you talking about keith. A bat living inside a dhaka ads. So president elect joe biden promising a nationwide mask mandate and woman date according to the beltline in light of recent events biden is updated as covert plan to include. Not just a mask mandate but a mask woman date is well get believe already done this story with asked it a prepared statement given to his nurse and posted on twitter completely. Legitimate and unquestioned. President-elect apologized for the sexist language in his plan. Listen folks. We all make mistakes. I realize this morning that might covid plan includes a mask mandate but not a woman date. I have amended and also a woman did mind plan to include a mask woman date so good we will also be adding a mask nonbinary date a mask gender queer date a mask to spirit date a mask polly gender dayton and a masked nonbinary trans species eight okay. More dates will be arriving. We continue to do our research to make make sure no one is left out. According to sources the biden transition team has grown alarmed at the number of times. The word men appears in the english language. They've been working around the clock to replace all usages of the word men in their plan with the word women unfortunately was determined that the word women is also problematic. They then replace the word women with people who menstruate so true. We have a long way to go. Said biden bud. I know that in time we will mend our nation's wounds or i mean people haman st- drew aided them fidget get men's great. It is ridiculous it just is that ridiculous now but zara world had i- woman i mean all right from dr t to see i can't wait to watch. The new episodes of the mandalorian and woman delorean perfect. Which by the way again. I mean if you haven't seen it yet so we can talk about. We're going to ruin it by friday. Yeah friday is the day we kill. watch it if you have to if you have to go ahead and just gorge yourself on the whole season. Please do it by friday Because it's something you gotta talk about. It was so cool to me. The best darn star wars episode of any type movie or series or whatever since nineteen eighty three. The only thing really worth worthwhile from star wars Since one thousand eighty-three if you get right around to it. I mean those. The last movies were just playing. Not the very last. One i ca. I did like but everything in between nineteen eighty-three and when did that one. Come out two thousand seventeen don solo on the the was it the last jedi what was the what was the last one called sure. Oh return of skywalker. Sure rice of skywalk. That one. I did like that one but Everything else post nineteen eighty-three. I wouldn't say it's all been garbage. But i would say without overselling. The mandalorian episode. I would definitely the best thing. Whatever i think. Three seven years. Yeah seven years. Yeah and it's it's nice to be able to have something to look forward to again because it just has been here comes another star wars movie. Yeah and now. I'm like when is the next season. Start me too. And i think the answer to that is like a year from now i think its december of twenty twenty. One are also. This is kind of an interesting development. The proud boys leader whose name is enrica taro. He was arrested in washington. Dc is for him and fortunately they got this guy off the streets. You know what he did who burned a black lives matter. Banner it was a it was a black lives matter. Banner that didn't belong to him. He took it down and he burned so they arrested him. I was waiting for the rest of them in jail. Widow city do and that's it. Did he says that. Not bad enough for you on the more. Do you need my friend. Well what do you want. Complete genocide is what you want from this guy because take to be worst threw bricks through windows fired. A businesses drag people out of their cars. No because i know you can go ahead and take someone else's american flag and stomp on it and burn it you can. You can lude a shoe store till there's nothing left on the shelves. You can burn down a business you can steal. Tv's you can help yourself to appliances from any store you want. But don't you dare burn a beal in flag saved your ass in jail. Cred pen how crazy is that all the stuff that's been going on since When was it april arm or may when that happened in minneapolis momentum they weaken all of it ignored all of it completely ignored. Nobody's paid a price for virtually anything but this problems leader up. We've got arrested. The second got into dc. They were waiting for him. You're being tracked. Talk real unreal. Triple eight nine hundred thirty. three ninety. Three andy pat unleashed on twitter. You know every time it share these stories about score master it. It almost crashes down their website because people realize what a great deal this is. The average person has ninety seven points that they can quickly add to their score over time but no idea of course how to get him. Score master and their credit. Scientists have discovered an algorithm that super boost credit credit scores. Not just a few points but they can get you ninety seven points really fast. Imagine ninety seven points on top of your current score. If you're going out and and try to obtain a car loan or you know. Buy a house. It's going to mean better rates Better interest rates. There's somebody thinks sometimes you even need this for for job purposes. They check your credit score. We're just find a place to live like an apartment or something true so if you have okay credit you're buying a car could save you nine thousand dollars just average just just by raising your score. The average sixty one points in twenty days or less really amazing score master. It puts you in control of your finances. You can enroll in just minutes. It's super easy. And the leaving show you. How many plus points can can be added to your credit score score master dot com slash pat score master dot com slash. Pat pat gray on onleaks. Yes good please do not use gender language to address everyone all right. Okay okay triple nine. Hundred thirty. Three ninety three of tweets mother clicker tweets bill. Gates's aside to like build nine is a scientist wire people listening to him yet ignoring what he has said about. Population control methods from rance. Out loud. I'll blindly assumed. The fda doesn't have any ulterior motives when i can trust the cdc. The who what. You don't trust the who i mean. I won't get fooled again. Was one of the great songs of the early seventies. And that's what he means. Yeah and even the commission on presidential election debates Bob blah blah tweets one wonders how the actual impact covid nineteen is had on the world comparison to china's original hopes right which was probably shut down the protests. Yeah when probably went far beyond their wildest dreams. Carl smith tweets wise it zero population supporters. Always want to start with the generation after themselves was bill gates father the head of planned parenthood before or after bill was born from captain sham. Please me the mandalorian had scharping senate. Sh i won't tell no because why would that'd be a dream come true. Only if they cut his head off in the episode that would be now. You see why we love it so much Proud mr greybeard. You're absolutely wrong. Rogue one is the best star. Wars movie of the mall stopped the lies rogue one. What was man. It was okay. It was good but it's no. It's not renew hope or empire strikes back or return to the jet. I cannot ever be better than empire strikes back a little star. Wars saga event could no. That's pretty tough to top laurean season. Three i looked up the christmas day. We got to wait till call while she set delayed. Because i don't know what happened in the world hard to believe anything could have made anything. hasn't been going swimmingly. We're on we're on schedule again. Everything's normal twenty. Twenty dream year wasn't it. I like how everybody talks about. Twenty twenty as if everything suddenly changes at the stroke of midnight. Twenty twenty one. I wish it was like that. Wouldn't it be great like magic pixie. Dust comes down and makes everything fine. Yeah my life's been perfect for the last five days has it. Yeah okay good. We're good triple eight. Nine hundred thirty three ninety three also would pat unleashed on twitter. I love this this. This is an example of just. How far the madness has gone with his mask. Thing is so stupid in the patriot. League which i guess is d. One basketball right. It's division one So boston university has made a decision without the health of their student athletes. The whole conference hold conferences pushed back the men and women's basketball season. Don't they cancelled it and then they said you know what we'll play but there's a caveat and here's the caveat take a look at this see if you can tell what they've decided here. Okay so look at this. Awesome women's basketball action. You might notice the just wait to see who scored. Let's get a closer look. It's the lone ranger no For some reason. I guess they want to be anonymous. They've law that. You have to wear a mask while playing basketball in the patriot league. This is the dumbest most irresponsible thing. Look at that nonsense. When you're exerting yourself like that run up and the court you're gonna drown in your own carbon dioxide. All hope is lost society. Good night. I love how she got below chint. She's like screw you. I mean this is. This is absurd in. This is every men and women's basketball game in the patriot league right now. Is there not a doctor somewhere near somebody who makes decisions in that league that said. Hey you know what. That's probably not a good idea. Scientists settled so stupid first of all. Don't you have to test negative to get out on the court to begin with so you've got you've got all the players the teams you got healthy people because you know they are because you just tested them and then you put them on the floor and you make them wear masks stupid. It just doesn't make any sense. Could we make sense. No of course we know and as one of your audience members pointed out on twitter last night. maybe a trick just to watch women's basketball and the patriots. Yeah well okay. That's more than watching my entire life. C. were so. Yeah that's a good point. Triple eight nine hundred thirty three ninety three and what is all this mask wearing leading to just another gigantic Wasteland in our in our nation in our in our in the world's oceans where all of the masks are being dumped and winding up there you know this thing is like eighty times the size of the at that. Look at all those masks out there on the beach. A you think the pacific garbage patch is amazing And now the mask patch. It's i understand. It's already two hundred and fifty times. The size of alaska is that right yet. Two hundred and fifty dollars tined. They're all clumped together out in the middle of the pacific two hundred and fifty times the size of last of safety in numbers. Yeah no seriously. How many did they say are out there in the. Oh let's see For months we've seen all of these masks where they shouldn't be storm drains streets beaches parks. Now we're learning. Just how many could be flooding. Our ocean wants plastic enters the marine environment. It's very difficult to move according to dr. -til phelps bondaryev. Wow that's cool. Yeah -til f- phelps bondaryev director of research for ocean asia oceans asia nice. I love that organization. You donate to them. Yeah i'm a member since The lately you wrote them a check on thirty first. I did do it on. Twenty december thirty first of every year but is a billions over one point five billion time. I've lost track of how much i've donated to my love. No no. I mean how. Much money i mean how. Many how many masks okay. So it's believed that more than one and a half billion masks are now in our oceans. One and a half billion masks. Yeah and they're also In walmart parking lot. Yesterday i took some pictures without taking a step just from where i stood and i made sure to send the photo that yeah Let's see there okay. There's one there's one and then there's these are alternate parking lot just me turning three hundred sixty degrees and then i made sure to sink the worldwide while federation said that a greenpeace. I tagged them. I track audubon society. Good sierra club. So many just so. They know what's going on out there. Yeah just one and a half billion in the ocean to worry about it but man you better use paper straws or i'm going to be passed. Thanks for being here. Triple eight nine hundred thirty three ninety-three also at pat unleashed on twitter. Looks like four. Four million five hundred sixty three thousand. Two hundred and sixty people have received the vaccine in the us so far By now they wanted to. They wanted to vaccinate about twenty million. That hasn't quite materialized but people were lining up. Seems like at a football stadium. I saw the tail end of a newscast yesterday and they talked to a couple of the elderly people who were in line. It was the first hundred thousand people in line. we're going to get vaccinated or something and they were cap camping overnight. I think they really want this. A really want that fever and chills to begin right away and of course the bell's palsy face paralyzation which is also a huge plus. Yeah there's no metallica. Tickets or anything. No no they want the vaccine. They want it now. They want it now and who can blame him. I mean if you have a chance to get chills and a massive. You're going to get right in line. And maybe for the chance of Your face being paralyzed. Who didn't want that. Who doesn't want it does it. This whole kovin thing has been so fun. So far There's a proposed bill in new york. It's gonna make it even more fun because it will allow officials to detain people. They think are sick. A bill introduced by new york state. Assemblyman would give governor. Andrew cuomo the authority to remove or detain. Someone deemed a threat to the public health states that questionable individual a questionable individual or group of people quote shall be detained in a medical facility or other appropriate facility or premises designated by the governor. That doesn't sound like a concentration camp. At all that does not sound like nazi germany. At all or communist china right now as a matter of fact even those get this. Even those without an illness can be combined if they've had contact with someone who might who might have been sick. Despite the fact that they were symptom. Free okay ka. New york is really on the right track right now. I think as far as people's liberties did you sniff a little bit. I just got a little bit of a cold. Okay cody anderson. Who's the chairman of the libertarian party. Also you know. He's a kook and won't like this he said let's put aside for a moment. The agrees privacy violation in issuing an order announcing an individual to be a health risk. This bill offers a clear and direct path to unconstitutional an indefinite detainment. On the governor's sole authority no. Us state was ever meant to have a single person acting as judge jury without checks or balances if this bill is allowed to pass. That's exactly what new york will have we. Once again demanded legislative leaders be principled when they claim my body might choice. They must not pick and choose. My body might choice. That applies in the case of abortion. So i don't know what this guy is talking about. You mean you know. That's only for abortion. Your can't eat what you want. You get drive what you want. So don't try that stuff with us. Wear a seatbelt if i want. No you can't i. You have to wear one regardless of whether you want so key. Yep so it really. Isn't your body your choice except in the case of aboard about schools for my kids know just in abortion so i can kill. My kid. can't educate exactly right now. You're getting it like it too. I know i know in canada. Now there is a police raid. They raided a home of a person suspected of having rugs or or was it a huge gun cash. Maybe a cache of guns dead bodies. Deb yup dead people buried in the basement really like the old ladies in arsenic and old lace where they bury all those guys in the basement because they're are a little wacky. okay now. Here's what they had something even more egregious no. They had more than six people inside that home. More than six people pa. These people deserve to live so they sent in the police force. Yeah check this up. I can't unbelievable. I can't take it choking. Gosh tantrum got this men handling this guy. I would the home because there's more than six people in it can't take home. I'm sorry that's evil. I don't care if you're following orders. That's evil yeah. Let me words fail. That's mean gestapo. Look that's a foreign country that's way over there right. Don't even worry about that can't bleed into the. Us sudden never happen here seriously. We've got a constitution and we've been very close remember. We had the jewish gathering in new york. Yeah in the came into that house. Like what are you doing hanging out with my friends praying. Shut up we are out of control very much. Were past the edge. We're yep yeah. We're we're wylie coyote holding a sign at this point Yup they. I would not be surprised to see this bill in new york. Get past him. Where if they think you're sick or you've you've been near somebody who's sick that they can put you in a detention center. Unbelievable these are things you couldn't have imagined in your wildest nightmare just a year and a half or two years ago you talk about ten years ago. It's a year and a half ago really in fact one year ago at this time less than like seriously. The high water mark for western civilization was like march. First twenty twenty and it's been downhill ever since Also another hopeful sign for you from again governor. Cuomo he hopes to speed up vaccinations by one hundred thousand dollar fines against hospitals. He said monday yesterday. The state's health department will issue fines of up to one hundred thousand dollars to hospitals. That don't distribute all of their corona virus vaccines by the end of this week saying he wants to get needles in arms as quickly as possible. And if you don't you're going to be fined one hundred thousand dollars. He also said hospitals will be required in the future to use up all their vaccine doses within seven days of receiving the allotment. Every single time. What if you don't have that demand. What what are you supposed to do. If if not enough people want your stupid vaccine you're gonna have to force it on them. You want so that you don't get fined one hundred thousand dollars. You wanna see this smug toured. Yes okay we've wanted in people's arms as soon as possible is new. York state department of health sent out a letter yesterday to all hospitals right. That said if you don't use the allocation by the end of this week the allocation you received by the end of this week You can be fined and you won't receive. Further allocations will use other hospitals who can administer it better It also says for the day you receive the allocation. You have seven days to use that allocation i see This is a very serious public health. Issue and department of health. Commissioner sukkur is Very firm about making sure the hospitals step up and deliver here So any provider who does not use the vaccine up to one hundred thousand dollars going forward. They have to use the allocation within seven days. Otherwise they can be. They can be removed from future distribution. Good good and find one hundred thousand dollars. It's not forget that this is the same guy. By the way who said we're not going to make america great again It was never that great okay. And he's making it even less great than he thought it was when he said that two years ago. Wow how much worse can it get with cuomo in new york. Is anybody ever going to step up. And say hey. Why don't you shut your yap whole because responsible for the death of how many thousands of elderly from your policies and you've been wrongheaded and screwing this up since day one. Why don't you sit down and shut up. Why don't you shut your yap. Whole i love it. Somebody's gotta say that to him. Exactly those words. Why don't you shut your yap. Whole okay he would have us. He's a snake in menace yup by the way against speaking amenaces. Don't forget to vote in georgia today. And i know we've all got the concerns about the election whether or not it's being done fairly inaccurately but you gotta do what you can write. It has to be you have to get out and vote and then see if we can overwhelm them to the point where they can't where they just can't steal the election it's got to be done And by the way they're going to try to Resist seating the electors today in the congress and is it one hundred and forty republicans in the house that have signed on to that and i think thirteen republican senators are going to do the same thing you know what they think is going to be the result of that it will delay the seating of the electors by two hours by two hours. So we can't even they can't even take a day to look into it a day a week. Let's just look into it for the next week. What if we were to just really take a look at it so that you could say at least you could then say look. We investigated it. We know you are concerned. What would be wrong with this for democratic leaders to say yeah. You know what we understand your concerns. Let's look into it so that we can put your concerns dressed we're going to have a totally transparent Situation here an investigation into the things. You're talking about. Go ahead and show your evidence. Let's take a look at it. Why wouldn't you do that if you really want the american people to be comfortable in the process that we have in this nation. Why wouldn't you do that to make all the sense in the world. And that's why that's why they won't do it. Man triple eight nine hundred thirty three ninety-three fortunately though we've got covid vaccines headed to rikers island and Jails around new york to make sure the inmates get vaccinated before you know the elderly people most at risk new york man. How many different ways can you talk a lot. A lot of different ways. They begun vaccinating medical staff against covid nineteen and hope to inoculate corrections officers and inmates. So you go. I mean it is interesting because a lot of a lot of people a lot of conservatives. Especially i think in republicans don't want the stupid vaccine again with but it should be offered certainly to the most vulnerable among us before anybody else be a choice right. Yes if you want it and you're vulnerable. You should be first in line here along with healthcare workers right the line work right and convicted felons. I think we're all in agreement there. Yes yes you think. First of all you think okay frontline workers. They're heroes check okay. Elderly you've got to believe in then you think and i wanted to go right to the inmates who have raised in people yes Let's do that It makes perfect sense house like everything else in this country right now. It makes perfect sense all right. Let's what is no stir dhamma have in mind what we're his predictions for this year. It's it's weird. Did he have a prediction for every stinking year before you start Has he ever had a prediction that was like unicorns lollipops and rainbows and stopping many. Yes really yeah he is. I think okay right. I've answered incorrect predictions. There's no doubt about that. But he's had his thing. Is i guess he's got a fairly decent track record supposedly. I don't know what the deal is with him. But it's always negative seen does he. Now he died in fifteen sixty six so many left us with a prediction for every single year. From then on all the time. I think ninety nine forty. Four is his last prediction. The year ninety nine forty four But close readers of his work say he foresaw twenty twenty one even more destructive than the hellscape that we just had in two thousand twenty course in his writings he mentions few young people half dead to give a start. This can only mean one thing. According to a yearly horoscope zombie apocalypse fathers and mothers dead of infinite sorrows women in mourning the pestilent. She monster the great one to be no more all the world to end he went on. I sounds fun This guy was probably really great at parties. Don't you think if there's anybody worse than glenn beck at your party. Had party is not going to be there. I'm sick that oh shoot. I got to wash my hair. Just just gonna clean the lint out of my dryer dang it. that's tonight. Can i come over after no. I'll be really sore after that. Because i've gotta bend over a lot to get screen out of there just takes a long time. It's really hard to get out. No dom is also appears to allude to the coronavirus pandemic but rights that the following year will be even more destructive perhaps bringing famine to the world wait he didn't reference the pandemic and see. It appears lewd. No he appeared to allude to the virus pandemic because psychic nikki. Didn't yeah no psychic. Nikki completely missed the pen. She literally i printed up. This is what do you want to see everything. This is her entire. I mean this is at least forty pages of yeah for twenty twenty and there's nothing in there about a pandemic psychic. Nikki sucks doesn't already. The pandemic has resulted in millions of americans heading to food banks for the first time in. Un is warned food. Insecurity will be an even bigger problem. Twenty twenty one no saddam's wrote this after great trouble for humanity. A greater one is prepared. Jeez the great mover renews the ages rain blood milk famine steel and plague is the heavens fire scene along spark running. Didn't even make sense. Why couldn't this guy sees things. Just say there's going to be a pandemic in twenty twenty one. It's going to be called the covid. Nineteen or corona virus thing and then in twenty twenty. that's in twenty twenty and twenty twenty one. You're gonna have all kinds famine and stuff. I mean then. You've you're onto something right but this guy is he's also been wrong you know. He called hitler his ller. He was off by a t. So don't tell me. He knows a lot don't tell him he foresaw thing disappointment. What he's psychic nikki. Obviously obviously next up. He sees an asteroid in the sky. One cease-fire and a long trail of sparks. How's that necessary and asteroid could be a spaceship on fire crash into earth right. Missile or some. Yeah plane crash right. Don't give me this. It's obviously a asteroid. Okay don't fill in the blanks for the man right or it could be a meteor you don't know asteroid one of its a meteor at this. Is what sucks about mr thomas. He didn't have to strategies. Emma's spar phone and f- tv right and on the internet can sit around all day comparing flight. No cost had a bunch of visions and so right it specifically yes around. I mean that is garbage. Domus a woman no no. He wasn't already. Of course we've had a few close calls and christmas day. A huge asteroid zipped past all right past the earth and notice in november. A pickup sized asteroid squeaked by our planet about two hundred fifty miles over the southern pacific on friday the thirteenth. That's fun remember that And now all this kind of no. I mean you could make anything out of us predictions out of this the quad trains that he did rain blood milk. Famine steel and plague said that he covers basis. You're right it's all i did. That's all and if something happens and look the man see. That's no no and speaking of things in the heavens. Do you know that in that bill. They passed the big stimulus bill. That the they just got through it calls for a one hundred eighty day countdown now to begin from the signing of the bill. I saw that at the end of those one hundred and eighty days. Everybody who has information in the government on. Ufo's must release what they have the american people that's awesome now. How great is that. That's cool that might be the greatest provision in any bill ever. I can't wait. Hold on hold on. Is the word show in this line. I believe it is so i believe it is. The wall shall be built. Yes just like that and look at the wall. So i don't know i don't know if it's gonna happen. At least they have mandated that it's supposed to happen. How did they sneak that in. I don't know rubio hundred day. Countdown for the release of government information on ufo's and began after president trump signed the two point three trillion dollar covid nineteen relief in government funding bill hidden in there as a committee comment attached to the annual intelligence authorization. Act which was part of the spending bill the provision direct spy agencies to unveil their declassified knowledge about. Ufo's look if you're not gonna read the bill jokes on you get a kick out of these peop- busa read the bill. The senate intelligence committee chaired by marco. Rubio wrote the provisions and it requires a detailed analysis of unidentified aerial phenomena data and intelligence reporting collected or held by the office of naval intelligence. That was a navy here who originally investigated. Ufo's in project a blue book and we'd get to find all of that information. Finally after all these years in everything the pentagon has been keeping from us. Yeah he's been pushing for this. Yeah this is great. I'm convinced that if rubio ever became president of the united states we would know everything and that is reason enough to vote for him right there. The report must include a detailed analysis of data from the fbi which was derived from investigations of intrusions of Ufo or unindo unidentified aerial phenomena data over restricted us airspace along with an assessment of whether this unidentified aerial phenomena activity may have attributed to one or more foreign adversaries unclear. How much information can be actually declassified and made public but people are calling. I mean this is long overdue. Why why haven't they done this before. Now are we are. We still that naive and frightened as a people that we can't handle the knowledge of what's going on here. I don't think so. I think we're ready for it until the countdown has begun. I guess we're what hundred seventy seven days away from it now. All right have a great day. We'll see again tomorrow. That only

georgia cnn zaccaria jaguars bill gates trevor lawrence twitter sarah fuller jeremiah wright biden pat gray reverend warnock jeff jeff allison cameron alison cammarata putin diddy obama administration
Frackalachia and the Great Fracking Jobs Myth

Drilled

38:06 min | 6 months ago

Frackalachia and the Great Fracking Jobs Myth

"If you live in the region you only have to walk through the downtowns to see what i'm saying whether it's you know steubenville. Ohio bolero. ohio wheeling west virginia grew wings berg pennsylvania. All of those downtowns are hollowed-out shoals of what they once were this drilled. I'm amy westervelt. And that was sean. O'leary from the ohio river valley institute. O'leary is a native virginian who's watched firsthand. What i cole. And then gas did to his community. He doesn't live in west virginia any more and that has become a topic of criticism from people who did not appreciate some of his recent work last month. o'leary and the organization. He works for released a report. That really made the oil and gas guys mad. It takes on a simple question. Did fracking boom actually deliver all those economic benefits. We've heard the industry talk so much about the report specifically looks at the region. O'leary has dubbed frac alaska encompassing parts of the ohio river valley in ohio pennsylvania and west virginia as you might recall from every election cycle in the last decade whenever people start talking about the environmental impacts of fracking or the potential of fracking ban. The industry has the same response. The amount of jobs that are created by this technology cannot be overstated. The united states chamber of commerce for instance tells me doing away with this one technology would lead to the loss of nearly nineteen million jobs here in the united states. The us is now. The leading producer in the world of natural gas and oil and dot has powered benefits our economy tens of thousands of jobs paying an average salary of fifty thousand dollars. That's what the ohio shale coalition says is coming to ohio but o'leary and his colleagues analyzed economic data from before during and after the fracking boom in the ohio river valley and found something else measures of local economic prosperity starting with jobs Also personal income and finally population were underwhelming to the point of being nonexistence. O'leary join me to explain the report. The research behind it and what it means for the region and for other oil and gas regions. That conversation coming up right after this break broken ground is a podcast by the southern environmental law center. That's digging up environmental stories. In the south the latest season of the podcast explores how southerners along the coast or navigating sea level rise as they race against the clock through personal stories and firsthand accounts listeners. Learn how all along the changing atlantic shores communities and individuals are meeting the challenges with determination to address this crisis. Had how will people on the frontlines protect themselves from the immediate and impending threats of rising tides. How to our social inequities come floating to the surface in communities battling flooding and storms out this season on broken ground available at broken ground. Podcast dot org or wherever you get here podcasts. I'd love to have you just kind of give people a little bit of the leeann land. You know what is this report that you just wrote. And what were the key findings from it. The report was an analysis of the economic impacts of the natural gas fracking boom in appalachia on particularly the counties in the region of the twenty two counties in the region From which over ninety percent of the gas is being produced because there have is anyone who's paid attention for instance in the in the recent presidential campaign knows A number of claims about a huge number of jobs associated with fracking and so we went in specifically for the purpose to see in fact how many jobs has fracking created. And what other economic benefits has fracking helped produce in those counties and what the report discovered what we found was that despite and immense increase in economic output as measured by gdp Which was roughly three times. The rate of growth in the american economy as a whole despite that immense spike in productivity the measures of local economic prosperity starting with jobs Also personal income and finally population were underwhelming to the point of being non existent and so the conclusion. The report came to was that. There's virtually no correlation between economic growth is driven by the natural gas industry and actual prosperity Positive economic outcomes on the ground. And yes that has stirred up. Quite a bit of controversy in the region are interesting. The big sell for fracking forever has been you know this idea that jobs creates outweighs the impacts that it might have on the environment or on water or you know on on communities and things like that. So what are you hearing from. Especially the people who have been pushing that idea both kind of oil and gas executives and politicians in some states. When they're not calling me names were the reaction so far have been pretty fervent A couple of congressmen have issued press releases and others basically attempting to refute the findings of the study. The problem is that none of them yet have actually contested any of the quantitative findings in the study instead. What they've done is point to other statistics in an effort to basically offset what the study found and so for instance. They're the probably the three statistics that they point to most often are that the unemployment rate in The region that we've been talking about has declined significantly in the last decade They also point to the level of investment that The fracking industry has made in the region the billions of dollars of investment and finally they Point to what they say is the total number of jobs provided in the states of ohio. Pennsylvania and west virginia both those who both jobs that are directly attributable to the industry and also indirect induced jobs Which they say in those states number in the hundreds of thousands that however has been even before our report a subject of considerable contention in the area for quite some time the problem with the statistics that they cited in addition to the pre existing dispute about the total number of jobs is that the unemployment rate figures that they cite and also the investment dollar figures that they cite are immensely misleading. In a sense. You really shouldn't have needed this report to understand that. There is no huge boom in jobs. Economic revival going on in northeastern pennsylvania or in the greater ohio valet. Because all you have to do is walk through the downtowns and you see it. the downtown's there are greatly reduced from what they were. Certainly at the time that i was growing up years ago And it's it's really sad to see for those of us. Who are you know from the area and who have hopes that the area can be revived can prosper again. And you know. I despair that so. Many policymakers makers and leaders in the area are continuing to go down the line of pursuing the petrochemical industry and fuel industries means to get there. Yeah i wanted to ask you about the petrochemical build out. I saw that that released today about the fact that you know one of the major companies looking at building an athenian cracker in this region is is delaying once again. And you know talking about meeting to make it make sense economically. But i feel like you're also seeing this repeat right of the same kind of overblown jobs numbers thing when it comes to me that they often include temporary jobs in that and not an are misleading. About how permanent jobs any of these things create. well. That's why. I mean one of the points that i'm making. Is that the report. I said in an interview that there's not much math going on here. Which is a a statement for which has since been dimmed. Those approve of the report but the math math. In the point where i was trying to make. Was that the the the report that we issued is not the product of an infrared model We aren't predicting We aren't using statistical techniques to predict what has happened or may happen. We literally just went to the numbers as reported to the quarterly senses of employment and wages. These are the numbers and for that reason. It makes the report pretty difficult to criticize. Because there aren't any assumptions being made there aren't any inferences being made. It's simply reporting the facts. Now the you know the the question. The challenge for the industry is okay. Well how do we. How do we counter that. And so for instance you know they have been saying. They pointed to the unemployment rate in particular. Which has in fact gone down and important to the unemployment rate. They usually start the year two thousand and ten which is A couple years after the fracking boom started in the region at least in most parts of the region but it also happens to be the bottom of the great recession in terms of employment The unemployment rate in the us nationally and so that you know puts them somewhat at an advantage with that number. But there's an a more insidious thing that they're doing inciting that number. Which is the there are two ways that you can make your unemployment rate go down. There's the good way and that is you can add more jobs to your economy. But there's also a bad way and that has you can reduce the denominator. You can get rid of workers you can lose workers from your economy even faster than you lose jobs in which case your unemployment rate will go down as well and that the latter is what has happened in this region and so they do have a declining unemployment rate. It's not because they've added jobs. It's because they've lost workers. What does that mean when you say. They've lost workers of people have moved out of the region or dropped out of labor pool when the unemployment rate was you know when when we hear the unemployment rate on a monthly basis announced from the bureau of labor statistics the unemployment rate is literally the number of people who are in the job market and without a job divided by the total number of people in the job market. What the people who are excluded from that are people who are not looking for jobs. And that's why occasionally you'll hear reports about the workforce shrinking or declining and in this case we're talking about an area in which the workforce has shrunk even faster than the number of jobs has so it's really a case of addition by subtraction. What kind of positive attention have you got. Well positive attention and and there has been quite a lot. Because i don't know that it comes through To folks who live outside the region but it would be difficult to exaggerate just how ambivalent people in the region are about fracking and frankly how opposed to many of them are and from that sector. We're getting a lot of people who are basically responding with thank god. I knew it. And i'm glad someone is finally saying it because as i said before if you live in the region you only have to walk through the downtowns to see what i'm saying whether it's you know steubenville ohio. Bolero oh wheeling west virginia grew williamsburg pennsylvania. All of those downtowns are hollowed out. Shells of what they once were and people know that And so for them they at least feel validated by this. Because there is another hope out there and the hope is that you know policymakers political leaders in the area will hopefully begin to recognize that the fossil fuel industry is a pretty lousy foundation upon which to try to build economic growth and prosperity and that this area above perhaps all areas in the country desperately needs to turn its attention to the energy transition and to the opportunities that are offered by the transition which are considerable. Yeah could you talk about that. A little bit about You know maybe some sectors that are potential job creators that get a lot less attention for for being so it might hope to understand a little bit about why all the money spent to pump all of the gas and all of the revenue that's been generated from the sale of that gas weiss. Little of that money has actually hit the ground locally and full economies then we can contrast that with energy transition heated opportunities and understand. I think a little better about why they're in fact are better and more promising and also cleaner opportunities to get out there Yet because you know the real mystery of i mean i we have to kind of step back and say well wake you know. Did the gas kept pumped right at ten years ago. There were economic impact studies from the american petroleum institute. And others saying that this is going to create. and. I'm not exaggerating when i say this. This is going to create in the states of ohio. Pennsylvania and west. Virginia somewhere in the neighborhood of four hundred and fifty thousand new jobs. I mean that's an immense number and the irony. Is that the amount of natural gas that has been produced in the period in the ten years since those studies is actually even greater than the studies themselves assumed which means that if anything the number of jobs in the level of economic activity should have been greater than we're projected in those studies and so the point is that the gas got produced the money was invested. The industry came to appalachia it drilled of thousands and thousands of wells it Produced an immense amount of gas. That's now almost forty percent of all the natural gas produced in the united states and that gas got sold. And so there's a lot of money going on here literally tens of billions of dollars and so the real question is since the money happened. Why didn't it hit the ground at least locally in these economies. Where did the money go. And so we haven't quantified this yet but we know having gone through at least what the leakage or potential leakage points are both from the front end of the process when we're talking about companies investing in the region going through to the back end when the gas is actually pumped in sold. And so what we see on the front end. When companies when an executive shows up in a county commissioners office and says. Hey i want to invest a billion dollars in your county to which you know any rational county. Commissioner who has been through three decades of economic decline is probably going to respond with g. Tell me how i can help you. And so what happens. Is that drilling rigs come in And crews start sinking wells throughout the area and that is all money that is invested in the area in a sense and in addition to that processing plant get built and other forms of infrastructure get built and that's all characterized at least as investment in the area that adds to gdp the problem with it. Is that much of. The investment actually goes to suppliers and to service providers and to workers who are from outside the region and so for instance many of the crews that came into the region came up from the gulf coast in the southwest where many drilling companies are located. Because there isn't a heritage of fracking or drilling in the northeast and so many of them brought in lots of workers from out of state and outside the region. The second thing is that of course there are many you know th they need raw materials. They need equipment and parts to do. All of this stuff will again. Similarly there is an entire ecosystem in the southwest in states like texas louisiana and oklahoma of companies that provide support services to drilling and so again. They relied heavily on those services to come into the region and do the work that needed to be done and you can make the same observation with respect to professional services. Whether it's you know finance real estate insurance in other words there's a great deal on the front end that extensively was investment quote unquote in the region or in the county which in fact was the acquisition of services From from sources that were far outside the county and so that portion of the money would never have hit locally. But then even when you kick through to the backside of this okay. We've sunk the well and we're now producing gas and we're going out and selling it in the marketplace. Well you know. Part of the promise of economic Prosperity was based on the notion that there were going to be a lot of property owners in the region who were going to get quite wealthy as a result of Royalties and lease payments from the companies for the gas. That's produced and that between that income on the backside and lots of new workers having jobs and money to spend locally that it was going to create this immense surge in employment in the region as those dollars filtered their way through the economy in the multiplier effect kicked in the problem was on the backside on the revenue side that first of all the price of gas that was anticipated. Back in two thousand nine and two thousand ten. Even after the fracking boom took place was never expected to fall below about four and a half dollars per million Btu's and. I'm quoting now. By the way from the energy information administration and at that time the eia expected that after kind of bottoming out at about four fifty gas would prices by the end of the decade or now essentially would generally return to anywhere between about six and seven and a half dollars per million be to us. Well the problem. of course. that's not what happened. The price of gas dropped to at times below two dollars and have never recovered consistently to more than the upper twos sometimes hitting three dollars. Which is where we are about right now. In other words the assumption Of new coming in from the sale of gas was basically at least twice. What the actual revenue figures were so you kind of cut that big nut that big economic You know input of energy into the economy by half right off the top but then another of other factors kick in the first. Is that a lot of property. it turns out on which wells are sunk isn't actually owned by local people. in many cases it's owned by companies corporations that may have a significant local presence or not and sometimes you know the property is owned by individuals from out who live outside the region and so much of that money does not enter the local economy and then on top of that you also run into another interesting issue. Which is that for those people who do live in the region and who do own the property and who do receive royalties many of them. Don't spend a lot of that money. And so starting with the fact that you know the price of gas is only about half or less than what it was originally expected to be and then you look at those other leakage points. It's frankly quite likely that the actual amount of money entering local economies was only about ten to perhaps twenty percent of what it was anticipated to be when the economic impact studies were done. There's almost no downstream of fact as a result of this economically. And that's important because the other thing we know. Is that the number of jobs that the industry was expected to create directly. Never got as large as it was supposed to and moreover many of the jobs that were created were taken by out of state workers. And so when you put all of those factors together what you come up with as a scenario in which yes. It is actually understandable. There's not really a mystery about how literally tens of billions of dollars seems to have just evaporated from the economy. There actually are rational explanations for how it could have happened. There are profound structural reasons. Why this particular extractive industry and for that matter other extractive industries are really lousy platforms for economic revival job creation and it starts frankly with the fact that even when you look at bureau of labor statistics numbers when you look specifically at the mining sector generally which includes oil and natural gas extraction. It's only about twenty two cents of every dollar in Gdp that recreates creates that is actually allocated to labor to wages and salaries. And that's an remarkably low figure compared to other industries like construction for instance that numbers seventy five percent. Most other industries are somewhere in the forty to sixty percent range. And so if you had to pick an industry upon which you know to try to build a job rich economy this would be one of the worst ones that you could pick even right out the gate and then on top of that you add in all of those other factors that i just went through and so that's the reason why we say there are other better more sustainable choices out there because when you look at many of the transit the energy transition industries that are out there which include not just renewable energy like wind and solar power but also very importantly for this region energy efficiency We're talking about industries that not only have are much more labor intensive and less capital intensive. But we're also talking about Businesses that in which the suppliers are local. I mean literally if you talk about okay. We're going to do a great energy efficiency project we're going to go. In and retrofit you know thousands of houses or buildings in the region and in this particular region there are many many thousands of older buildings and houses that can benefit from retrofitting. One of the beauties of energy efficiency is that these are shovel ready projects. You can go in and start. Insulating and replacing lighting and appliances tomorrow. It doesn't require a lot of planning. It doesn't require a lot of stuff We hear about when we're talking about you. Know how do we invest stimulus. Dollars will find shovel ready. Projects energy efficiency is shovel. Ready all the time. The second thing is that energy efficiency and for that matter distributed solar and other things these are services that are provided by predominantly local suppliers. You know we have local insulator. We have local home remodeling firms. We have local firms that do windows and door replacements And so one of the other beneficial effects of pursuing the transition economy in energy is that more of the dollars that are spent actually stay in the community as opposed to dollars that are spent on. You know paying your electric bill which probably goes to some faraway utility and so there really is. You know there's kind of a triple benefit here. What do you think about the. I've i've heard this flooded a few times. This idea that you could employ people you know capping and remediating wells especially as more and more of the kind of early fracking companies. Go bankrupt or you know. Just decide that these wells are not worth and keeping productive anymore. Actually are looking at What the employment opportunity would be based upon the number of Abandoned norfolk dwells in the region To pursue that. And by the way we're also again talking about an area that is historically coal producing region and there is also a coal mine. Remediation opportunity as well so yes. It is potentially a great generator of jobs in the region and one of the things. That's most appealing about it is. It's the kind. These are the kinds of jobs for which people who currently work in the fossil fuel industry and who might otherwise and who might be vulnerable to losing their current jobs and livelihood as we transition to renewable resources of energy these would very likely be opportunities for them to take on a new form of employment and they could be paid as well for doing that and frankly given the number of wells as there are out there. These are jobs that very likely would continue for years. Yeah yeah that's that's one of the most appealing things of this. Because you know we're we're talking about a region and i mean i'm a native west virginian rain. I was born in nineteen fifty six west. Virginia's population in one thousand nine hundred fifty six was bigger than than it is now zero population growth in the last sixty years. And that's because for lack of opportunity for lack of economic opportunity. Many people move away and so jobs have always been an issue in west virginia and one of the things that makes the energy transition so exciting especially to someone like me who cares deeply about you know my home and my people is that it does offer opportunity for revival in the region. I did a story recently around like kind of around the jobs thing across the fossil fuel industry in general and the fact that i feel like i don't know almost every story i read about fossil fuel jobs people neglect to mention that the industry was shedding jobs like crazy because of automation over the less cures to so. I wonder what you've seen on that front. What impact has all. Okay this is where west virginian in me is kinda. Come out my my town. I lived on top of a coal mine My town dying And up until recently it was dying not because coal wasn't being produced. It was exactly what you just talked about amy. It was automation back when i was born In west virginia the coal industry employed directly about one hundred forty thousand people which is a remarkable number because the state only has one point eight million residents. I mean you're talking about a an immensely pervasive industry there and the amount of coal that was being produced at that time stayed more or less constant until the beginning of this last decade. And it's just been really in the last eight years that coal production has started to significantly decline in the united states. But what happened during that. Time is and i'm not exaggerating. Is that in the coal industry. Ninety percent of the jobs were lost in west virginia. We went from one hundred. Forty thousand workers down to about fifteen thousand workers before the volume of coal being produced actually started to go into decline and that affect was entirely attributable to automation To the advent of strip mining in a large way to mountaintop removal and other forms of mining that are less labor intensive than underground mining which was west. Virginia's heritage and so the devastation economic devastation has been happening for a long long time in this region. And you know even when you talk about. And that's one of the reasons. By the way. That when i going back to what i said before about natural gas production being such a labor intensive business or rather ah capital intensive business the flip side of that is it's not very labor intensive it actually doesn't provide much in the way of jobs the ones that does provide. Yeah they're well paying absolutely true but it doesn't help it doesn't provide many of them and more over and this is another issue. we frankly should talk about. Is that because of what. Economists call the externalities associated with also fuel businesses local pollution You know a variety of issues. It appears again. This is also hinted at least in the results that we found. It appears that natural gas may in some respects actually discourage other forms of economic development. There's this weird tendency. I think sometimes for people to talk about environmental impacts as things that don't also impact the economy. What one of the things that we're least grade at in economics is incorporating these these effects were calling externalities. They're only extra analyses in the sense that neither the buyer nor the seller pays for them. But somebody does. And one of our great weaknesses is that we don't do a great job of incorporating those externalities into our economic modeling into the economic impact studies. And so if you go back again and you look at the american petroleum institute studies from ten years ago where the american chemistry council studies on petrochemicals. Now you you won't see any recognition of any externalities associated with that there simply not taken into account and even when they are frankly usually what people do is plug in some number like Fifty dollars per tonne of carbon as a social cost of carbon factor. Which is you know is better than nothing but even that does not get at the issues that you just talked about the noise. Pollution the water pollution the local particulate air pollution that does not get covered in that fifty dollar per tonne of carbon So cost of carbon factor and in fact it. It really does seem as though whether you're talking about coal mining or also Natural gas drilling. There's at least prime facial reason to believe that they could have depressive effects on other forms of economic development. That's it for this time. Thanks for listening. If you are not already subscribe to the podcast do that. We are working on our next narrative season. Which will actually be about the gas industry. Starting with the fracking boom and ending with the f. Ethene and plastic boom. If you don't wanna miss that make sure you're subscribed wherever you get your podcasts. Also please leave us reading or review wherever you listen. It really helps us find new listeners. End it helps us. Combat the little armies of climate denier trolls occasionally encounter on podcast apps. I wanna thank some of our most recent patron patrons manera jasani daniels stubs. Stephanie cass luke. Austin jason grant rachel lower j. star. Any be sean. O'leary elliott list. Tom keep in weston anderson. Rachel see zebulon. Hanley dan walsh adam bin nun and zach johnson. Thank you guys so much for your support if you would like to support our work. Please go over to patriarch dot com slash drilled. We put ad free podcast episodes there. We will be adding more and more bonus content patrons also get access to exclusive drilled. Me is there's a little something with each tier. Thanks for that and thanks for listening and we'll see next week.

leary west virginia ohio ohio river valley pennsylvania bureau of labor statistics amy westervelt ohio river valley institute steubenville chamber of commerce for instan ohio shale coalition united states southern environmental law cen appalachia Pennsylvania