20 Episode results for "Yuba city"

EP. #11: Yuba City Five - Plumas National Forest

Locations Unknown

1:11:57 hr | 1 year ago

EP. #11: Yuba City Five - Plumas National Forest

"The thousands of people have mysteriously seriously vanished in America's wilderness join us as we dive into the deepening of the unexplainable in trapeze together what happened you are listening in two locations unknown How's it going everybody and welcome back to locations unknown unknown? I'm your co host Joey Radio with me as always as Mike Vanda bogart what's up everybody thanks for tuning in. It feels great to be back actio. I know we both had some interesting trips while you're gone. Yeah I am besides the Iraqis trip I know we recorded an episode since then but I spent four and a half five days in the back country of Montana Glacier national park and it was absolutely stunning. Just one of my favorite parks you oh you and I went there. What was it five years ago? Yet has to have five years now. Yeah it was a while ago but we actually stayed at the fifty mountain site that we were we were at we went a couple other places that just really really beautiful ended up covering about sixty two miles in that period of time so we were really moving but it was it was a great trip didn't running running any bears couple the rangers about their missing persons case. They're working on now. Also got some got. Some good information might have to do not bestowed on him in a little it just to talk about that guy cool yeah so you were out in glacier and I was actually up in Alaska about a month ago and it was amazing. It wasn't really what you'd call hiking trip but we did get some hiking in I went hiking with buddy and Denali for a day and then we did some hiking too a glacier near in your anchorage and we also did some psychiatry around glacier called Spencer glacier so it's really cool. I recommend Alaska anybody. can get up there. We had a lot of issues forth forest fires while we're there so the air quality towards the end of the trip was pretty subpar but we were able to get all the all the good hiking in that we could so great ship nuts excellent you sit out of the triangle though right in the heart of the triangle right in the triangle triangle you made it out so that's good I went into the triangle the Alaska Triangle and came out so it can happen tastic so besides the trips were on we do. Have you know one exciting update. We mentioned this on our last episode before the break we have bedding. I didn't contact with some people that have known are Nelson. This is a guy that we did one of our cases on a while back. One of the guys is known him for a very long time the other guy did did some hiking with them so we are planning to have an interview with these guys to kind of shed some light on Arvin and bring the light some information. That's not publicly known so so stay tuned for that. I'm not exactly sure when we'll drop that at this point but it will be in the next couple of months yeah. We had a coordinated with them. I and I'm I'm personally very excited because a lot of times when we do these episodes we we work off the information we can get from police reports or from news broadcasts in its you know some times times if anyone's ever been interviewed and seen what their interviews like in the paper afterwards there's a lot of something can be missed out so we were contacted by this group because they said there was a couple of things they wanted wanted to correct this on. There weren't weren't any major differences but it also helps shed a light on the type of Person Auburn was in and get some better insight into what could have happened. Yes yeah so it's exciting that they they reached out to us and are willing to talk with us. You know it's very personal when you know somebody and they go missing the you know the person so we appreciate you know that one other thing we do have a Amazon storefront and Joe and I have been putting products on there that we highly recommend in have used in the back country so if you want to help the show out go to our storefront and purchase. We've got tons up there. We've got different print type of climbing here a lot of stuff that you can use in the back country and every sale we get a little portion out of it and it helps us keep the lights on so if you're in the market for any and you hiking gear check it out and we'd like to think this week sponsor Verger they've been helping us out mostly through the first half of the show so we're glad to have them back when we restart art these episodes again I've been recently. I think I posted about this on facebook. I've been using their shave stick and it's this thing like you replace your shaving cream with the stick and you rub it on with a little bit of water and I'm not even lying about this. Okay I have to say I'm not lying about this. I would never share with a razor for like the last three or four years I because I just get redness bumps in all the all the very sensitive in a row because I got an terrell co so for the longest time and just use that just do it every day not a big deal so I started using there's no told by the guy one of the guys who owns it and he's like you know. Just just give this a shot use. He's a razor again and you won't believe how well works at all right final. I'll give it its day in court. I've been using it for over two weeks now. I've had no redness. No breakouts no nothing it's actually. I can't believe how well it were so I know I know they're paying to have messages on here but I have to honestly tell you I haven't been able to shave with a razor until I started using this the CD shave balm so check out their website releasing some soaps conditioners they have lotions got the shave balm the pain bomb all the stuff. I use who's almost all of it works great so yeah give it a shot in. I think we threw up a code on their few Promo Code locations unknown you'll get an extra ten percents off your order online online and they said they've been having some issued the payment processors as many Hampton. CD dealers have been across the country so if there's any issues with checkout you can email those guys directly and they'll take care of you so again. Thank you verger for for helping out the show all right everybody. Let's gear up and get out to explore locations -tations unknown February twenty four th nineteen seventy eight a group of friends from Yuba City California set out on a trip to watch basketball game afterward Gary Jack Jack Jackie Ted and William drove up into the plumas national forest and were never seen again on this week's episode we will investigate the details surrounding the disappearance the subsequent finding of the bodies and more importantly league timeline surrounding you are listening to locations unknown The Matthias Group was made up of five friends Gary Dale Mathias Jack Back Moraga Jackie Hewitt Theodore. We're and William Sterling the Group Range Between Twenty four and thirty two years of age edge. They all had developmental disabilities to some extent and we're all enrolled in a day program for the mentally handicapped none were profound enough that they were unable unable to function in society Gary had schizophrenia and was on medication to control his symptoms Jackie had a low IQ but hadn't hadn't been diagnosed as mentally disabled both Gary and Jack had actually served in the US army and driver's license Ted. We're was wasn't employed for a while as a janitor and snack bar clerk but quit at the urging of his family who thought his slowness was causing problems. Jackie Hewitt had they slay joop to the head. He was sometimes slow to respond. William Jacks good friend was deeply religious and would spend hours at the library reading literature he focused on teaching religion to the patients in the Mental Hospitals Jackie and Ted were very close. Ted was described as looking after Jackie Jackie in a protective sort of way and would dial the phone for him when Hyatt had to make a call Gary was an assistant in his stepfather's gardening business. He was discharged from the army. After drug problems that developed in Germany five years prior Gary took several drugs to treat his schizophrenia there are also police records that show Gary had become violent on occasions and was charged with assault twice after returned from Germany he failed to take his drugs in lapsed back into a disorientated psychosis that landed him in the Va hospital so we have five and I know that was a lot of information mation. Dump on here and I know Mike you and I talked about this before the show that it might be hard to keep up with some of these names it was hard when we're doing the research to really we get through it. All the idea is we wanted to give a background on each person to show that although there were some developmental disabilities they were high functioning ching off that they could drive a car go out on supervised they would go to the library study this there in the army although they were discharged so so they're they're high functioning enough that they are able to go about daily lives. They're just part of a daily program an interesting thing for anybody who reads leads the missing for one books. One of the main connection point to allow the disappearances is the fact that these adults are sometimes children have have mental disabilities so it's just something to think about this. This is kind of a has been documented phenomena among people that go missing in the wilderness so it just an interesting sidebar absolutely and I would say we should also say disclaimer to that. We're going to be very blunt about facts in this so we know alway want to misconstrue and make anyone think that we are speaking lightly about developmental disabilities. When we talk about these cases we are GonNa talk about the facts and we may you make analysis based off of the type of disability they have and make assumptions based off of potentially what could have happened to them as a result of their disability ability and how that might have hindered or helped situation great point joe so this group went missing in a national forest called Plumas National Forest? It's located in I would say North Eastern California. It's near the you know what they call. The terminus of the Sierra Sierra Qatada the forest is about one point one five million square acres so people the picture that it's a couple hundred two thousand acres smaller than Delaware but a few hundred thousand acres larger than Rhode Island's talk. That's what I would've guessed. I would have guessed that so it's a pretty pretty large national forests. The forest was named after now. I'M GONNA probably butcher this watershed called the Rio de Las Plymouth's. That's all right it looked it looks right but then it was renamed to Feather River so this is a very popular forest in the area outdoor enthusiasts sir track to to it year round. There's lots of streams lakes deep canyons mountains valleys meadows and lofty peaks so you can imagine going to this forest and it has everything it's got you probably could use some fishing. Maybe some rapids you Whitewater in some climbing a lot of hiking. I mean I I in the research location. There is over three hundred miles of hiking trails. The elevation in the forest ranges from between four thousand seven one thousand feet so you're not talking anything too difficult. If you're hiking there's campgrounds at elevation that you can you can go to there is a there's some recreational areas that you can ski and you can do water sports so yeah you know. It sounds like a pretty cool place you know it's got an Alpine climate in some locations with the you know the mountains going up to seven thousand feet interesting fact is the Pacific crest trail actually comes through the forest. There's seventy seventy five miles of trail and in order to get across through this trail you gotTa Cross to major canyons and go from elevations a twenty four hundred feet up to seven seven thousand feet or wow so that's a major. It's a major portion of that trail then pretty tough part of the trail. This forest has a very rich history with humans in my research. I found found that there's any human presence in the forest going back eight thousand years so there's been a lot of native Americans in the forest. There was a lot of gold mining in the eighteen hundreds hundreds there was a Hudson Bay for companies famous for being stationed in that region so there's a lot of rich history with American Indians and then early early American settlers. You know going out there looking for Gold Kinda the same story you see in any part of the West. I don't really I was going to say do we ever ever find out if there's any major successes in the gold mining in any of these because I always see where it says oh they mined for gold. There's lots of this but so many people went out there's so few actually made it rich probably the first guys and then I mean back then it probably took a year for word to get back to everyone on the east coast and by the time those guys made it out there. The gold is probably gone but so if you're the first guy out there you probably made a boatload of money there you go first mover advantage picturing wildlife in this area. It would probably be similar similar to other locations in California. I'm picturing like Yosemite Mountain lions other stuff like outlines blackberries things like that so yeah a pretty cool place. I would love to live near something like that. I mean anyone that lives in California. Yeah pretty much has access to all these great places we in every place we read about because I've never even heard of this one before the story and I know at first I was like oh it's just some little national national forests that you get in its giant and has tons of hiking and camping all these other things so if you live in the region this would make a great multiday backcountry trip three hundred miles of trail. You know it's a big forest size of Rhode Island. I mean you can get back there for a while and you know this kind of you. GotTa think about the terrain and you've got some people that who are you know mentally disabled. you know maybe that factors into their disappearance. We'll we'll find out yes yes might Mike has has not gone through the time line. Also he'll be hearing this raw. We'll get some organic responses for Mike. I went through the story multiple times but there's still there's a lot of information here yourself. We do run over. We might break this up to episodes where we don't WanNa make everyone sit on here for hours at a time but I'm going to just dive right in then unless you have anything else to say about the National Force Force Mike I I would just add that. You know I'll add it to the list of places I'd like to us and we're GONNA have a big retirement list of just places to go which is ironic because it's always places where people disappear have meet some sort of fortunate and but you know the thousands of people go there are just fine so like you said you made aided in and out of the triangle just fine. I did all right. We're starting our time off. Here was nine hundred seventy eight and we're starting on a Friday riday so it's Friday February twenty fourth nineteen seventy eight so we we mentioned the beginning. This group is going to a basketball game so they actually had quite a ways to the drive so this group drove fifty miles from Yuba city which is where they all lived to Chico to attend a college basketball game at California State University so there at the game no real issues there. The game ended at ten P. M. In the group left in stopped three blocks away at a marketplace and the reason we knew this. This information is because in the police reports they interviewed the Guy who's working there basically the clerk because it was noted that they mildly annoyed the clerk so might have been one of those situations where like they said they're high functioning adults. If you don't know that they have an issue they could probably come off as being obnoxious action or whatever but that's just how they are. They have their different mental disabilities so the clerk was trying to close up and they came in to buy stuff and that's I guests what annoyed them is so what they do know is that they were there for sure they bought a hostess Cherry Pie a Langford Lemon Pie one snickers bar a marathon bar to Pepsi's and a court and a half of milk. They're supposed to drive back after the game no issues in our back we're on Saturday February twenty fifth. This group was actually set to play basketball game of their own because they're part of a tournament that would net them a free week in Los Angeles if they want so they had a tournament back in Yuba city that they were gonNA plan over the weekend that they could have won a free prize and spent some time in L. A. Just to to help listeners listeners with locations. Yuba City looks to be about twenty twenty five miles north of Sacramento and then Chico is just up up the highway like we said another fifty miles so it may be more than twenty five miles but it's north of Sacramento and directly west of the national forest. Thank you very much. No that's good information honestly because especially for people that aren't are in California for looking it up on a map you you can find a little bit easier so essentially because there are a lot of them live with their parents still their clothes have been laid out in the evening of the twenty fourth before they left for Chico so they're excited about getting back to this basketball game so right away. That's important formation no too because you always wonder. Is there an aspect of them purposefully not returning. They had a fun thing plan that they're gonNA do on the weekend. They went to basketball game before their own tournament weekend. They had their clothes laid out before they left. They played for it was is difficult. Vocational Rehabilitation Center is where they played basketball so that was their team gateway gators and the team Ted. We're had asked his mother to wash his new wight high top sneakers for the term insane. We got a big game Saturday. Don't you let me oversleep so they specifically. They're excited about this. You know it was a big basketball. We can for these guys. They're really early days. Before I phone alarms. I know right so when the Group failed to return Yuba city their families became concerned immediately and call the police lease so again. This is where if it's a bunch of adults that don't really have an issue there plywood raise too many alarms that they went to a college basketball game and didn't come back the next stay. I mean what are your thoughts immediately. If just a normal group of guys they probably went out drinking got a hotel and stayed the night but they were expected to be home home to start this this this tournament so immediately. The sheriff's department began searching for him so just a recap they went from Cuba to Chico for in college basketball game. They stopped at a convenience store on their way back. The game ended about ten so they would have got back probably around midnight you know if they're a little later twelve thirty one. AM and they had a very important basketball tournament. They're playing in over the weekend that they're supposed to be a part of Sheriff's department start searching so we're gonNA fast fast for the weren't anymore. UPDATES till Tuesday February twenty eighth. This is when a forest ranger found Jack Madrid's car abandoned so this is a forest stranger in the national forest. The vehicle was a turquoise and white nineteen sixty nine mercury MONTALTO. It was on an unpaved road near Oroville in the Rogers cow camp area past elk retreat at an elevation of four thousand five hundred feet so this is in the national forest I and it was located around a two and a half hour drive from Chico in the opposite direction of the route. They're supposed to drive home and way up in the mountains in the Plumas National Forest Mike. I know you looked at a map. I think Chico's north correct north of Yuba Yeah Chico's north a little a bit north. I'd say north and slightly West took so I mean they even city they had it's in the freeway. There is a straight south drive. Yeah that would went so they went even farther north twice the distance essentially in the wrong direction up in the mountains and then abandoned in their car was abandoned. It's pretty incredible like they drove twice a distance in the wrong direction so the Plumas National Force against one point five million Acre acre national forest we talked about that. It's unique the locations you because if you look at you on the map it is south of Chico both on the same highway anyway so again. It's extremely easy to get back and forth. It's basically you get on the highway and go all the way and you get off the city so getting back on the highway to head south it'd be it'd make more sense if they got lost somewhere on the way south because the highway doesn't continue the way they went during the investigation. The police did not find anything that would make someone think foul play occurred so the car was unlocked. One Window is down in the keys. Were missing the candy rappers from the things they bought the milk. Cartons and basketball programs were in the car and maps were left in the glove compartment. They did have maps and the directions to get to and from their destination and where they wanted to go home so there's no obvious damage to the car which was a big deal because they said the road they they were on was super bumpy in unmade so basically it was a road that you should be driving in a four wheel or four wheel drive vehicle on like taping type of thing so they must have been driving slow or something because they would have expected there to be damage on the car that was noted in the police report so obviously the road was bad enough that they were surprised at this Mercury Taegu made it as far as it did with no bumps anything essentially they had a quarter tank of gas and they were not stuck in the snow. Basically what confused investigators is that the driver either use astonishingly honestly amount of care precision our new the road well enough to anticipate every single rut. It's pretty incredible and then they had gas they weren't stuck so they're high up enough and there was some snow avail on the ground. They essentially abandoned fully functional car is what they're really looking AETNA and that's kind of what confused them. It's like you have this car of guys there either lost or something and they left a car that had gas that wasn't stuck that wasn't damaged yeah so very very very confusing to investigators working on this so now we have a big gap. Were basically a search churches occurring. They didn't have any updates so from February twenty eighth to March third. We're going to be talking about Rangers. Search the area for five days found on no trace of the men to make things worse soon after the search started a severe blizzard moved into the area and they got nine inches of snow that dropped in the upper mountain so this is an obviously hinder any of the search efforts that they had the search teams had so many issues that they stated that they nearly lost men themselves two days later they had these things called snow cats that were having issues these like the boxy vehicles with tank tracks for snow and I'm trying to think of the do you remember the movie Goldeneye. Can I the James Bond movie I do. It's it's do you remember those things that they had when they earn like Siberia Yup. That's what they're talking about so they had these snow cats. He's things things that could basically navigate all so they're really bringing out some of the right equipment and they they knew the area well enough that they're gonNA get a decent search and even though they had the blizzard going on so as the news the disappearance spread Joseph Scans contacted the police say he had seen the men between eleven pm am and twelve pm on that Friday so we now also have a guy that saw the news comments said you know hey I actually saw these guys from eleven to noon news that would also fall in line with the timeframe of the drive somewhat after they left that that shop so they saw them eleven pm to twelve. Am Yeah Yeah I did say five PM. I meant okay but he saw them in that window and he estimated that time 'cause we're talking. It's it's a week or two later when he calls after he sees the news so he was driving up gravel road to his cabin when his car became stuck in the snow and unfortunately while trying trying to push his car out he suffered a heart attack so this is this is where this is where the and this is why. I don't want to say like the story but this is what really got me see for this story so the Rub for this is there are two different versions of the story both of which are weird and somewhat creepy alright it version one and they come from this guy who suffered a heart attack and did he die from a heart attack. He did not die from the heart attack and so this yes I guess yeah he told the story he told the story but still it's. It's this is going to blow your mind cause. I know you didn't read this yet. In one version while Joe I was laying in his car suffering from his apparent heart attack he saw two sets of headlights coming up behind him was a car and the other was a pickup truck he he got out of his car to flag them down obviously because he's having medical issues. The two vehicles both stopped what he said about twenty feet from him. The passengers passengers got out then left together in one car. Joe Spent the rest of the night in his car before walking back down the mountain in the morning so oh this so okay. Let's recap version one Joe Johns having a heart attack now remember Joe Johns. Is this guy who contacted police saying he saw the group so he's not part of the moon. I'm going to try and keep recapping as much as possible because there's a lot of actors in this story Joe Get stuck on this road again. This is the road where the this group of five that are developmentally disabled drove up with no issue. This guy has a cabin here and had issues driving up this road. He got stuck in the snow. He he was trying to push his car out of being stuck. When he suffered heart attack? He's laying in his car having a heart attack apparently when he sees headlights come up thinking thinking he's got some sort of salvation. He's going to get help. He flags them down. Both cars. Stop the people exit the cars all enter into one car just simply drive away which means they left the pickup truck there apparently then this guy who's having a heart attack spent the night having his heart attack in his car car in walked out to get help and survived so that's version one the second version which is more mysterious us while laying inside the car Joe said he heard whistling noises in saw what he thought was a group of men and a woman with a baby walking in the light right of another vehicle headlights joe called for help and the lights turned off in the whistling sound stopped a few hours later he we saw flashlight beams outside of his car and call out for help again but immediately the lights went out Joe Scon- stated his car until it ran out of gas then he you walked eight miles down the mountain passing Jack Madrid's car on the way which he said he didn't think about much of it when he'd seen it until he heard about the disappearance appearance that is bizarre so what would appear to be cooperation of the truck version of the story. There was a woman who reported seeing the five men in a red pickup truck on Saturday and Sunday about an hour's drive from the side of their band car now this lady she owned a store in town on were they were she said to the men came into by food. One of them made a phone call from a nearby phone booth and the other two state in the truck. This is the last report we would hear about that for several months so this is I mean if you can imagine being an investigator on this case what is going on you have to immediately start thinking about the credibility of your witnesses. You have to start then realizing that both those stories that Joe Joe Scott told are ridiculous but you have one words. Kinda cooperated were a woman reports seeing them in a red pickup truck later on in that weekend. I guess I'm confused with the part that the guy gave two different stories from your research. Did it say why he told the I story and then changed it. We'll we'll get we'll get into that in a bit and that's where I was. I also thought it might have been two were. I always had take all the information we get with a grain of salt because it's I mean by the time we're getting this up. especially in these cases a lot of this stuff will come from if if the police reports don't have it news article clippings so you have that issue where like we said earlier if anyone's ever had an interview done if you've had your five minutes of fame or you've done something and you've talked for twenty minutes to a news reporter and they play literally five seconds of it so like are they cutting it down like what's it's happening so there's a lot of things that you have to consider here. What I do is try and distill both versions of the story and realize that both versions are both crazy they really on and then the one with the pickup truck seems to be cooperated again by this woman where you start thinking okay? Maybe they weren't a pickup truck this guys calling out they are disabled so maybe they think of it as maybe threatening and they quick drive away but why are they in a pickup truck they were in in their car. They left like Kinda. Get in the whole concept of what is going on in that mountainside that night that all these weird things are happening thing and you have these guys changing vehicles leaving their vehicle showing up in the next couple of days driving around going making phone calls going to the store. One thing that makes me believe that this woman noted them as a group of five guys is going to be noticeable especially if they're kinda acting developmentally disabled you're going to remember for those types of people and that's what really makes stick out whereas if it was just like a couple of buddies are like one guy they might be overlooked very easily well yeah that's puzzling and I'm kind of going through my head of all the scenarios I could think of what could be going on here. First of all like you said it's it's February in the mountains so there's snow on the ground looking at one thousand nine hundred thousand nine Mercury Montego. You would not want to take that thing off roading. It's it you know it's like when you're big boat type a classic cars from the Sixties Yeah. I'm sure it's probably real drive probably terrible in the snow no definitely not something you take off roading so why they would even be out in the national forests because actually looked up the campsite that they their car was is found near you know it's pretty deep into the plumas national forest so it's not like on the fringe they needed special trucks to get there her and when they specifically note that this must have been a skilled driver that's when you start thinking again not making fun on but you have a group of developmentally disabled people. Only two of them are capable of getting a license. Were they with another person with someone else driving that car for them and now like like you said I don't know the whole time land so I could be wrong but you know the first thing that come that my mind are did they did something happen to them in Yuba or Chico where their car was stolen and then did it get ditched up in the in the national forest because you know it's winter. It's up in the mountains. I you know the it sounds like they weren't prepared to spend even one night laid out in the wilderness so they're not gonna be prepared for cold weather. you know the elements so I can't imagine them. Just you know on their own driving out into the woods. I have a feeling there's gotta be some foul. Play involved in out when it comes to this other guy. What would you say his name was shot? She actress guns are Joseph Joe Skin. I have to wonder you know he's having a heart attack. He's obviously in distress. Could he have have maybe hallucinated some of these. That's that's what I was wondering because I couldn't find like a medical report like yeah 'cause I was an emt from what I know about heart attacks is you don't recover from them on your own. Typically your heart muscle dis dis unless you're a pregnant woman pregnant women women. It's this is actually really neat phenomenon. You can look up separately here. the fetus of a pregnant woman will send stem cells back and actually can repair a woman's heart if they have a heart attack but that's pretty much the only time that you can get repaired heart muscle from a heart attack is if you're pregnant yeah so if he's having heart attacks through the night I I don't know if it's actually heart attack or maybe a panic attack or something else where he just got chest pain. You read my mind so I'm thinking like okay. He says he had a heart attack Zac. We we can't find any evidence through publicly available information that says he had heart attack but just you know common sense from everything we know. I just can't imagine a guy having a heart attack staying there all night and then hiking down the mountain yeah the amount of stress that puts on your heart like he wouldn't have survived. My hunch is he had some other type of medical issue or or a a mental issue where he was hallucinating or it caused him hallucinate because what he was seeing you know maybe a car drove by but in his mind he thought it stopped and people got out Oton gotten to a different car. I guess you know the car that was abandoned when there were two cars were they able to find that abandoned car the next morning ahead of his truck so they found the car but you in the first story sorry. You said that he he remembered seeing two-car. Strive up bought stop it was it was a car and a truck drove up both stopped. They both exited exited one and then got the other yeah but then it doesn't make mention of like like I think we're getting his car was probably still there. was there another car when they went in recovery in his car got stuck. You would assume the other car is going to be stuck up there too. What was the other car found the next morning? I guess we'll never know 'cause you wasn't publicly. Can you stated yeah just so far. Obviously we don't know the rest of the story but it's puzzling well and that's where it's a it'd be very easy to write him off as like okay. This is just a guy who's maybe a little Kooky and just wants to be important. Tell stories but but then you have a separate woman who reported seeing them in a red pickup truck on Saturday and Sunday driving around is hanging out so you like have have some level of cooperation of Joe Scans a story by a completely independent person. That's not connected to him at all Yeah No. It's that's puzzling. I'm it's so bizarre. We don't we don't have to sit on. This is too much lower because I'll I'll my mind will explode if I just spend the time on this just trying to figure out what the hell happened that night yeah so now we're going to fast forward to June so we're getting into more of the summertime a man riding his motorcycle through the area so it didn't mention but based on again the terrain eight. I'm guessing this guy's probably this dirt bike in through the National Forest he noticed a broken window in a forest service trailer and the trailer is located about nineteen miles up the mountain from where the car was found so now we're nineteen miles up the mountain from where the Yuba city fives car was found inside the trailer. He found the body of Ted. We're okay this is weird so did the description of of the body founded it mentioned anything about. Can you know obviously decomposed hour. We're going to get there okay. I just wanted to sink in for you. Yeah Okay Okay so we found one of the EU's Yuba city five in a kind of service trailer in and this was like come to give you an example of this isn't just like a little tiny trail. This is like a full outfitted trailer so we go through that a little bit but but yeah this is again doc the twenty miles up the mountain they found the body there the day after Weir's body was discovered searchers then found the remains of love Madrid Ruga and sterling so now we have three of the five were found in the area of the trailer. They were found on opposite sides of the road from the trailer her and again this is roughly they SA- they they keep saying it's roughly eleven and a half to nineteen miles from where the car was found so it's it's. That's a pretty big gap but I'm guessing this roads are so off Roti that it's Kinda wind e and they don't really have a good good. Estimate there have Madrid had been partially eaten by animals was dragged about ten feet to a stream. Yeah okay was laid face up his his right hand was curled around his watch. Sterling was in a wooded area scattered over about fifty feet. There is nothing left of him but bones so it gives an idea of kind of that time line and we always talk about in the episodes like Oh what if an animal had gotten too so this is an idea of how you can tell an animal animal got. They don't really move the the body away from where originally was in. It's kind of so whenever we have these stories where people are just disappeared entirely. That's that's why we always kind of get to the point where it's not animal so that's just an example two days after that just off of the same road but much closer to the trailer Jackie Hewitt's father found his sons backbone along with a pair of Levis and rip soled shoes so an assistant from an assistant sheriff from Plumas County found the skull the next day about one hundred yards downhill from the rest of the bones which the family dentist the family dentists used to who identify the remains. Let's how they knew that it was is Jackie Hewitt so now we've found four of the five correct Hewitt's remains located northeast of the trailer. They're just like sterling's in Majorca so now we have four accounted for one of the trailer. Three more were northeast of the trailer. Several hundred feet away north west of the trailer about a quarter mile away searchers found three wolf four service blankets and to an A. to sell flashlight lying on the side of the road. The flashlight was slightly rusted and had been turned off so it was impossible to tell how long it had been there but it had been there long enough that it was exposed the elements and rusted a bit it yeah they still haven't found any signs of Gary Mathias so to recap we found one guy was in the trailer Yup and then there were two guys found on the other side of the road one had been kind of was kind of dragged the to the river by animals. The the other guy was nothing but bones left in the fourth guy. There's there's I'm having straight. They haven't found they they will they found the backbone and the backbone the Levi's go yeah and they found the skull little bit farther away that they use the dental records to identify him. Okay okay wow so those those three were northeast northwest up the road was they found blankets and a flashlight. They didn't know who it was. Is there no sign of so that was geared. They're still looking for Gary. Gary was the last one of the group that they didn't have any any sign of essentially so that makes it sound unlike you know someone was trying to stay warm. Maybe yeah like or gopher help or something go for help. Yeah yeah interesting. It's a flashlight but then Dan where's the body so here. Here's what's crazy. Though Gary's tennis shoes were inside the trailer would suggested the investigators that that he might have taken them off to put on Weir's leather shoes because that's what they found since we're had bigger feet and matthias feet may have been swollen with frostbite so that's kind of what the investigators hitters were thinking of that he took bigger shoes so that he could actually go walk around. Although the men's bodies were heavily decomposed autopsy topsy results determined that they had likely died for me exposure so they had died from the outside so right now. Everyone is probably thinking. Why is this a location is unknown episode? We kind of have an idea. These guys were mentally handicap. They may have got lost. They may have gone. They found this place in more just kinda wandering around until they died. I would normally agree with you until you learn a little bit more about what happened. So it appeared that Ted had lived eight to thirteen weeks wchs after his disappearance based on the length of his beard in around one hundred pound weight loss so he weighed just one hundred twenty pounds at the time of his death several bedsheets in a shroud were tightly tucked over his body that indicates that someone else had been there with him in the trailer as he couldn't have bottled himself up that way so if you if you imagine like I got kids I took him in real tight for fun like they can't do that by themselves so he's tucked in a way that someone else had to do it for him so his leather shoes were taken off as we said we're missing entirely and they still had Gary Matthias issues there so that's where they came to the conclusion that Gary left his tennis shoes there and probably took Ted's as Ted had bigger our feet and they said the only reason you do that is if you're were swollen from frostbite potentially so that's where they got that idea from so a table by the bed held his nickel ring with the words Ted engraved on it his gold net let his gold necklace his wallet with cash inside in a Gold Wadham Walsh that was not property of any of the men and it's crystal was missing which family say that had the families say had not belong to any of the five men and Ted's feet were fed fed were badly frostbitten what that leads me to believe as there wasn't really a robbery or they weren't being held hostage because all of their personal belongings were there and and apparently a gold watch that wasn't even theirs to begin with was there they made it up this mountain somewhere between twelve nine thousand nine miles through the snow up the mountain to this trailer and were there for several weeks apparently even though we have eyewitness statements that they were in a truck tuck from two different people. This is where the story is very strange already. We have conflicting accounts from that night. souris that that sound from paranormal from shaky sourced that's like to me like the whistling in the baby and the woman are like very weird paranormal type stuff but then we have another story corroborated by a woman who claims you've seen the man this is where it gets even weirder than that inside the trailer authorities found heavy clothing matches playing cards books wooden furniture and other materials that can convinced easily us to start a fire but there had been no apparent attempt to start a fire despite the freezing temperatures in the mountains a propane tank connected to the trailer which would have was connected and full which would obviously provided array source of heat and cooking fuel was completely untouched so this is a trailer that is meant to be lived in in the winter conditions this Yuba County Lieutenant Lance Air said all they would have had to do is turn the gas on and they would have and they would've had heat in the trailer and they cooked now now get this next to the trailer in a storage shed outside there is a year supply of C rations so so they're individually canned pre cooked and pre prepared meals issued for the US military the men consumed thirty six of the meals and left the majority of them untouched changed so they had access to food yet. You have ted basically wasting away in bed and they left a ton of Oman touched. There's a huge surprise supply of freeze dried meals. Also one of the scene rations had been opened with a Army P thirty eight can can opener so they had ample shelter ample food and supplies to survive for up to a year in any condition essentially without they wouldn't leave that trailer area and they were unable to work any of that stuff and this is where again skeptics might say okay. They're mentally disabled. Maybe they didn't know what to do but I mean these guys could drive a car. They held jobs. They were in the military. I don't think it would have been beyond them to figure figure some of that stuff out because those propane takes again. It's you turn Knob and now you have propane so you know the thing is there is enough food for them to eat eat for year and yes. There's evidence to show. They were eating some of the food so they knew where the food was. They knew that they could eat it. They were eating it and like you said and why was one of the guys withering away you know hundred pounds of weight loss that just doesn't make sense to me. I don't understand there's there's a year's supply of food there. Why aren't they eating? Why are they? Why did they stay up there for thirteen weeks? I'm just kinda rambling off. What's coming coming to my head? Why was there a random watched that didn't belong to all them is there you know maybe it was a you know a sixth person with them? You know that that was there with them but you know there's no evidence of it now win in why why were their bodies located across the street like I I can understand the one will emit even find the body still but there is a flashlight and blankets up the road so k. Maybe one attempted to go find help. nope the other two. I mean they were within several feet of the trailer today. Crawl outside to die like what what's what's happening to it is grew you know so I'm GonNa go straight into conspiracy okay. Why do I like paranormal paranormal? It's our first show back. It's going for it. The one thing I can't you know settle on his why they're up there there that I don't think we'll we'll know why do they drive you know deviate from their plan of going to the basketball term in the next day and go deep into the national forests in the middle of winter in a you know a classic muscle car type. You know type of car something that shouldn't be out there rushing to make it simpler again just to reiterate Chico to Yuba city is straight down. I have it written down here straight down highway seventy through central valley in low lying land with no oh snow at that time of year so it's it's around an hour of Dr but they ended up going complete opposite direction through the snow in the mountains which again even if you're you mentally challenged or disabled you should know if you're going through mountains runs or if you're supposed to be in a freeway especially at their comprehension level what about this so they drive into the woods for unknown reasons their car breaks down they they decide for some reason to head I think you said they had went north like nineteen miles. Yeah that's where this trailer was. What if something was pursuing them or scared them and they decided to head north to get away from it and they hit this trailer? Whatever whatever was pursuing them pursued them to this location and they were scared to leave it and they held up here for as long as they could but eventually you know something thing happened and they got you know disorientated and ran out into the woods and then you know succumb to exposure? It's very the X. files and you know what really in my skewing my thought process started watching the latest season of mine hunters on Netflix so I'm immediately thinking like okay. Is there a drain serial killer in that area that like toyed with them and tortured them like locked him up there and starved Omer like I don't know like so yeah you have. These guys like it's I mean you've to me. Even Rotana notes like you have a bunch of questions like why did they get loss at night. It's question number one. They went really far the wrong way in the wrong direction in a way that is not even close to the right way slyke again. I keep wanting to jump back to the developmental disabilities like okay maybe if it was a similar road a similar direction and they made a wrong turn and they ended up here no it's it couldn't have been any different from the ride home. I mean it's the it's quite literally exact opposite. You have this straight south road with no snow. They took this bumpy northern road with snow up the mountains so it's like you've mountains and valleys snow no snow south-and-north. It couldn't have been more opposite of the way they should have went and they had maps. They had all the information they I needed to get back. I think you can rule out like robbery or foul play in the sense that you know the car wasn't stolen. All of their belongings were found in that trailer including money so you know someone didn't go in there and murder them and then leave all valuable possessions behind that that doesn't make sense so then then that brings a question of what happened around the car so the group's car was left open with gas in the tank and it wasn't working order. They said Ed so they left they left the car and the keys were gone so they took the keys with them. Yeah so this could explain the story told by hi Joe Scans reset he saw flashlights around the car like if they abandoned were walking but it didn't save they had flashlights to begin with. Could they event could they have lost the keys like maybe they got out to look around lost the keys and they're looking in the snow and they're freaked out by this Joe Scans Guy because they were in an isolated area. Maybe one maybe their car got stuck or something and they started walking walking up the road and maybe another trucker something came by and maybe the weather is really bad that night and maybe you know they're like you know. There's a forest service trailer up here about twenty miles. How about I you know we'll take you there for the night and then you know you can get out in the morning? When the the storm dies down? Maybe it was something as simple as that so then that leads to this woman that saw them Saturday and Sunday and a truck so they are in town and one of them apparently made a phone call yet. Obviously it was either. She's lying. It was a different group of people because no family member reported taking that phone call on Saturday or Sunday. So if let's let's say for in the first case yes it was them for sure. Who did he call in how come they didn't come forward and if it wasn't them how odd would it be in that small town area to have five men matching their description inner red truck which corroborates that Joe Scon- story in my the I I mean I know my guess is the woman misidentified a group a a group of guys? I think okay I'll buy that Yeah I. I'm guessing she misidentified him. I don't think they ever came back out of the forest once. They drove in there okay so you think they abandoned the car her do you believe do you believe the Joe Scott any part of Joe scancen true. I'd say that even meeting that he claims he saw them. I so Joe Joe Scans. I think had some type of medical emergency. I don't think it was a heart attack based on the fact that he was able to hike out of the out of the woods the next morning I think he must've this is just my aunt. She had some type of medical emergency that caused asked him to maybe collusive eight or you know something happened where he wasn't seeing things correctly. He may have seen maybe he saw truck with the the Uber five going by but you know I mean maybe he was tired. He's having some type of medical issue. He maybe he'll loosen its hearing this whistling whistling sound and seeing the woman with a baby out in the forest so that doesn't make sense. I think this is my two theories of how they got to the trailer sure I I'll I'll say right now. I have no theory on why they're up in the woods. In the first place that's puzzling. I have no idea and that's like the one thing we can obviously tell true because their bodies were there and their cars their cars. They're so they're in the woods for whatever reason we will never know why they went into the woods but so there in the woods so we know where the car was so for some reason they decided to make a nineteen mile hike in the middle of the night. I assume very very cold temperatures February at elevation to this trailer so either either hiked the hallway or someone driving by gave him a the ride to the trailer tonight overnight the storm the one theory of them getting a ride to the trailer. You know that that's not very suspenseful. The other theory is why did they stop. Why do they get out? Why did they head north to the trailer with a fully functioning car with gas still did something spook them? was something pursuing them. Were they afraid to go back down the way they came. You know my I you know if I would try. Try to go back the way I came if I'm not familiar with the area. I don't know that trailers up there this seventy s we don't have you know we don't have an iphone where we can pull out in up a map and I think what's important in Tuesday noted that the window was rolled down the car so if it's cold and snowy outside maybe they were talking to another car that was coming by and they rolled the window down like like yet and that's where I think those those little details. I think really do make a huge difference this story because the they made very careful mentioned the investigation that the car was damaged at all it up there appeared to be no foul play meaning that whatever happened was completely under the free will of the men and they'd apparently apparently eaten the food left their role the window down at some point which their snow. It's cold yeah so there should be no reason at the windows just down especially with the cold weather so so like you said did they come across somebody. Did they actually try and speak to somebody they didn't make it as far as JOE SCONCES car because he had mentioned that he he had passed their car when he was coming down the mountain and in his story that group came up the mountain pass him and continued up the mountain and that's where again portions of history actually make sense which would fall in the timeline of them making their way up to where they ended up in a trailer so I would say yes. Joe Didn't see them walk by. I would say that someone must have given them a ride to that trailer now. The interesting thing is what happens once they're in the trailer so and where their bodies Ezra found so. We've got this one guy who lost a lot of weight. Even though there is food you know a year's worth of food there. You've got the bodies kind of dispersed in different locations outside the trailer. You've got a random watch from an individual. We don't know who's it is. Maybe there's some kind of weird so maybe the people that gave them a ride up to the trailer you maybe they held them captive. They're Kinda against their will. That's Kinda. Were again my my mind. Minehunters theory is coming in a plays like were. They abducted in a complicit way meaning where somebody said hey you want help get outta here in and this abductor knew about the cabin had a truck and we're driving them around. Maybe even drove them in the town and there they again being maybe a little little bit disabled could have been tricked into thinking he was going to help and you know what this so. You said the one guy found in the trailer had bad frostbite on his feet. Yeah they said it was it was going gangrene angry and he had been starved apparently even though they had access to the food what about this so that night they start hiking you know several miles in the snow and they probably that's where he probably. I got his frostbite. This guy truck drives by picks them up takes like all right this guy he needs to get you know to some shelter they take him to the trailer are they. They they lay him down. Maybe the next day the the guys in the truck I'll go into town. Leave him in the trailer like we're GonNa go get you helper for whatever oh and that's where they get. That's where they get the five guys it's one new actor new guy for the group and then the backup okay okay. Maybe maybe something happens where now they're being held against their will and I mean there's no other explanation for why the one guy wasn't eating. They're why they're up there for thirteen weeks you you know you had you would try to come back down. I mean that's why I think maybe they were held against their will. Here's here's all right so here's the rub on that. Where's Gary Gary's body has never been found yeah that yeah so that's that's where did he get away like we're all those bodies far away because they're trying to escape in Gary Dead but then he probably died of exposure somewhere else and they just announced body how keep keep in mind though Gary was taking medication for Schizophrenia and he had a history he had a history of lapsing on his drugs which would put him into a disoriented psychosis so dat that again? This is where it's crazy you know. Could he have been responsible for some of this. Maybe he was off his meds as they get stuck out there or maybe let's. Let's put this way. Maybe he's on his meds but they expected to be home. He's now several days to weeks off of his Ed's is he causing issues like attacking the others like Kinda losing it yeah maybe what happens is he after several weeks which it still doesn't explain why they're up there for that long but maybe he starts going lean into that psychosis the other guys run out of the trailer and he pursues them in you know kills them yeah and then that's why you're finding their bodies in different spots outside of the trailer I mean they say they died from exposure so well and that's where it's an that's where again there wasn't really clear police reports or corners report to say I'm sure if they found a skull with blunt force trauma maybe but if they've been out there long enough decomposing in animals had gotten at it is it possible that it could have covered up some sort of traumatic blunt force that would have rendered them incapacitated to or maybe be again. This is all theory speculative spy speculation from me specialization. That's not a word speculation but let's say he goes in his deep psychosis. The men were eating but this guy has a complete mental psychosis breakdown starts attacking them in some way they go running running to try and avoid it. He hits them. What's on the maximum out gets the other one knocks him out leave their bodies there and then whether animals and time I'm take their toll? He's stops feeding Ted. Maybe so maybe to your story maybe Ted got frostbite on the way up can't really walk is just bedridden and and now his only caretaker is in this mental state of psychosis so he's essentially starving to death in this trailer incapacity by gangrene screened frostbitten legs so he's probably got a fever probably the sweats incapable of taking care of himself even if you wanted to and then you have so you have that accounts for three men were he attacked outside one stuck in there. He's the north worth does he. In the psychosis then he's got these dead bodies of his friends is some point coming out of the psychosis at some point himself and some blankets grabs a flashlight and then walks off trying to figure out what's going on again. You gotTA think not nuclear mental state if he's off his meds and has is prone to these psychoses and he's dead of exposure somewhere too but they have yet to find the body you said there are a lot of canyons and and things in this area area could he have just wandered off into the night day and then that's it. That's that's regardless yeah I just I you know thirteen eighteen weeks. You know three months so they went. They went missing on February Twenty twenty four th so you're talking. You know it's getting the May now you know. Why aren't they walking out yeah? You've got all this I just I know we literally say this. After every episode we do the but this is by far the most puzzling case we've done yeah. It's so weird. It's it's. There's usually the reason why I've seen as a lot of cases we do. There's a reason why the person listen was in the location. They were there on a trip hiking or they're doing this or that. Yeah we have these five guys that were in the forest for no apparent the reason in a time of the year where you wouldn't want to be there completely unprepared so we know they didn't go into the woods on purpose so already already right off the bat. We don't even know why they're there. which is unusual for the case as we look at all? The people are in the woods for reason usually usually so so. Do you want your do you want to hear the maternal instinct's of Jack Missouri's mom so this is a quote from her. She said there there must have been some force that made him go up there. They wouldn't have fled off in the would like a bunch of quail. We know good and well that somebody made them do it. We can't visualize someone getting the upper hand in those five men but we know it must have been they seen something at that game at that parking lot says Ted we're sister-in-law. They might have seen it and didn't realize even seen it so this is the family their gut instinct is they saw something or got into. It's something they shouldn't have. They made them go up there and so let's think mafia they saw mafia hit. They get driven up there. You know maybe maybe maybe they took him from that store and with a truck in someone drove their car parked the car shelia. He's then drove him up tat thing. captive held them captive. I don't know that's just the gut instinct of the family and the courts the family had said well that goes along my paranormal theory that something spooked them and chase them to that trailer and they were afraid to leave it and whatever it was eventually got them. After you know several weeks could it could have been aliens. The Whistle Liaisons Leagues. I'm thoroughly confused says I was before I knew the timeline. I know it's it's it's that's where a- At least in a lot of these cases I mean I think we always say the case could either be died of exposure died from an attack or some other like simplistic duct if yet there's so many different facts in reports from this case and then contradicting but corroborating robbery statements that I feel like this is really open ended. I don't feel confident in any answer answer here. It's it's very similar to our last case where the guy disappeared in like six hundred foot area on a mountain yeah like my my end up result was he wanted to get loss and the whole story was fake this one. It's like I'm thinking of nine hundred there's a serial killer in that would somewhere and he held these people Kaftan after tortured him Yep and prayed on them from Chico got them from their somehow he coaxed him up in the mountains somehow or a group of people did he and Joe Scans just kind of crazy due to live up in the mountains and wanted to be a part of the action so he made up these two separate stories again. You have this guy who has to completely and they're not even I mean the only thing close about it is that he saw them and they walked up and lights turned off yeah yeah but other than that. It's very different version. You said he came forward with this information after it was known these guys were missing yeah so you know it's another one of those cases of you know you. You know that these people are missing sue either yeah like you said you're trained trains. You involve yourself in the case or you may have seen other people and you just kind of naturally assume it's the people that are missing because the guy who did it and they just weren't good at getting that stuff back. Then I mean like I mean is he involved himself in the case because he's the one that did it and he got away with it. Yeah I don't know I don't think we're ever going to know the answer to this one but yeah unsatisfying show oh the new season of episodes really can't can't sell about this our whole well are the locations and known in general how unsatisfying are all these episodes where we just never really know what happened. I mean they'll end the same way honestly though but I still I love researching every single one of them I the other cases. Though have you know probably three plausible three three or four plausible theories that I could see happening this one. I I don't have any clue you know I guess the closest theory we got as they were held against their will for three months and then one guy's gone and one guy's gone yeah in one one guy never was found so yeah well great. I episode I'd say with that. Thank thank you for tuning in sorry for making your awful. No make sure to give us a like your review on. I tunes wound stitcher or wherever you listen to podcasts it you know if you want to help the show out. We've got a store on facebook. You can buy some hats and bumper stickers there email plus locations unknown at g mail dot com with any comments criticisms. If you know any of the people involved in the cases we're talking about. We'd love to hear from you with that. Thank you for tuning in

National Forest Gary Jack Jack Jackie Ted heart attack basketball Yuba city Plumas National Forest Mike Vanda bogart Joe Chico Gary investigator rangers Jack Madrid California Alaska Jackie Hewitt William Sterling Yuba Yeah Chico facebook Chico
Guy Branum, His Mom's Peach Cobbler

Your Last Meal With Rachel Belle

27:18 min | 8 months ago

Guy Branum, His Mom's Peach Cobbler

"Bairo Seattle I'm Rachel Bell and this is your last meal a show that famous people and the stories behind the foods. They love most today on the program. Comedian Guy Brand guy was a regular on Chelsea lately and the Mindy project host true. Tv's talk show. The game show in. He has a new book of essays. Called my life as goddess guy also grew up in a family of hunters when I was in kindergarten or first grade. Somebody brought in cookies for their birthday. It had like or they cloaked drag as on them. The little metal ball things that are made of sugar have as big silver sprinkles. Yes and so. I went to the teacher and alerted her that there was birdshot on the cookies choke and it was like so dumb that. I assume some parents guide put birch shot on cookies but like never heard the birdshot. Is that when you call the bullet? Clearly I did not grow up in a family of hunters. You know what he's talking about for his last meal guy wants his mom's peach cobbler for dessert. But it's not a cobbler recipe. That I'm familiar with so Seattle. Pastry Chef Britney Bartolini been stops by to school us on all manner of fruit baked with doe. So here's the thing cobblers Chris all of those things. You can't really define him what I would call a cobbler growing up in the Pacific northwest. Somebody would call a song or a grunt and when I say Prune you say use oh I was thinking you were GonNa say something else regularity. Yeah that's what. I was thinking that you were thinking that I was thinking. I call up the California Prune Board a phone number. I never dreamed I would dial to figure out why prunes have such a bad rap but first my interview with Guy Brenham guy grew up on an almond farm in Yuba City California. A rural area about three hours north of San Francisco. Not far from where. I went to college at Chico State. I have a food memory of Yuba city because I still go to Chico. At some of my best friends live there so I fly into Sacramento. Is it's my favorite place so I find the Sacramento. I drive up to Chico and I usually stop in Yuba city and I go to Casa Lupe seriously. Yeah Oh that's wonderful I've so many great memories of My mother loves insisting that it's not as good as it used to be and we shouldn't go there. Oh that's wonderful. I cost of Lupe was are in town Mexican restaurant when I was growing up. No matter if I'm hungry or not I have to stop. Guests can't do that hour and a half drive without stopping meal with all due respect to Washington. I mean getting some Real California Mexican food is something you need to do. When non-californians think of California I imagine they think of beaches or the redwood forest. Hollywood the Golden Gate Bridge but the reason the California has amazing produce. Year round is because of all the farming communities. Yuba city is by California standards is tiny negligible farm town. A little town where everybody does construction or agricultural labor. It's not a very educated town. We have lots of crime you know lots of trucks and mud and stuff like that. Nath too but you know it's also like a cool and wonderful place that is full of leg. Ricefields full of Duxin Pheasants Raspail. Love Duck Santa Pheasants and it's also like a very sort of leg culturally mixed place because we have a huge Punjabi farmer community and also a large. Latino community is so many places in California. Do but what's really cool. Is You have all of these immigrant communities who are approaching agriculture in their own way. Everybody has their own sort of lake story that they are telling in what they pull out of the dirt. You city is also the prune capital of the world. But we'll get to that later guys. Last meal is a love letter to the place where he grew up. My last meal would be pan-fried Pheasant with this brown rice thing that my mom would make. It was brown rice with like slivered almonds and green onions and soy sauce. That was like a bad church. Cookbook sort of you know Asian rice thing but just the experience of having pheasant that my dad and I shot with brown rice. Is this sort of like most fundamental food memory of mine because pheasant that his lived a life out in ricefields taste like a rice field came to life. I hadn't when you get commercial pheasants or whatever it doesn't taste like that and that this is so weird and dumb I was thinking about. What's a vegetable that make sense with? That was most. Yuba city is SARS onto sog which is the Punjabi mustard. Greens basically in February. The almond trees are in bloom and the orchards are all green. Because we've had the the rain and there are just mustard plants everywhere and then there are old old. Punjabi ladies with knives and their skirts pulled up with like a bunch of Greens in a little bag that they have made out of their skirts. Is that kind of like a version of SOG PIONEER. But instead of spinach you would use these mustard. Greens exactly come down exactly. So it's got the it's got the same consistency. It's just got a stronger flavor. It's usually in my experience not served with cheese in that way it just served with a lot of butter in it And then Monkey D Rotea are these corn Rotea. That are kind of like a corn Tortilla And they are also heavily buttered because it is like wintertime buttering us so that was my meal beverage. Iced teas sweetened in a very southern way and then for dessert. This is the most important it all it. All went from here My Mom's Peach Cobbler the recipe for which is in my book. Your book I mean I have like half of a recipe for how to prepare an possum. You just knocked halfway through figure it out. I just explained like how to sort of remove the skin and stuff so just to break it down. Because there's this cobblers crisps buckles all these things. Can you explain what this cobbler is? Okay I very strong definition of. What Cobbler isn't it doesn't line up with a lot of other people's so my dad's mom made this cobbler. So you start out with like a heavy duty pyrex pan or a cast iron skillet and you put butter in there and you melt it down and then you make a batter that is equal parts self rising flour cream and sugar so that it's somewhere right in between a batter and a dough. You pour that in on like hot brown butter so that it sort of hits. The pants sizzles when it hits the Pan. And you get like a nice crust on it and then over that peaches are berries. Yes and so like bakes up through and he's very a lot of people are defining cobblers like fruit with a thing on top. Yeah this is not that. I'm not sure what the origin of it is. But it's like a cliff Udi without eggs. So does that mean that. The batter kind of rises up and envelops the fruit. What's beautiful about you bake it you bay you bake it. And the thing is like it. Bakes up through to a point that frequently you cannot see the fruit by the end of it and that's the magnificence and then once you go down into it it's just Buea baked pizzas. That are wonderful this hearing Barry. Why won't you go down into a girl? Yeah you like all mode. Yes Oh no I think Nothing maybe ice cream if we're being truly decade but just on its own is is my preference because it is an intense experience. Southern sweet tea. Peach Cobbler recipes for possum. How is this guy from Northern California? Majority of the white community are people who came to the Central Valley of California during the dust bowl so like all of my grandparents including the Ju- came Arkansas in the thirties to forties. So yeah like I had a younger cousin who used the word. Reckon and Yonder also. I've never read the Grapes of Wrath. My mom is always very mad at me for never having read the Grapes of Wrath but as a kid I was very much like. I don't want to learn more about that. It's dumb and boring and full of. Yes. It's full of dust. I've never seen Schindler's list. So maybe they're like there's never the right time because I didn't watch it when it came out and so now it's not like oh just going to put on some net flicks and hang out with my cat. Oh my God. I'm GonNa Watch Schindler's List and make some popcorn. Like wins the right time. It's true brought up Schindler's list. There's nowhere to go but to take a break nowhere to go after you mentioned. There's less but after the break. Seattle Baking Goddess Bricky Bartolini. Ben Breaks down the difference between cobblers and Chris and Buckles and Brown bettys and she shares the trashy desert that she grew up with. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. Be Right back here right back. Okay Oh hi guys. It's me again this time with my shoulder pads on and I got my briefcase here because I am Business Rachel and business. Rachel is here to tell you that. There is a rare opportunity to advertise on your last meal for the first time in more than two years. We have space for new advertisers. So if you own a business or you have a friend that owns a business and you're interested in advertising on your last meal. Get in touch. We'll tell you all the details. You can message me are Bell R. E. L. L. e. At Bonneville DOT COM that's B. O. N. E. V. I L. E. DOT COM. So our BELL AT BONNEVILLE DOT COM or even to. Send me a message through my instagram. Your last meal podcast. And I'll get it over to the sales staff and hopefully we can wear shoulder pads together for his last meal. Guy Brand wants pan-fried wild pheasant. That lived its life in a Yuba city Ricefield a wild rice dish with soy sauce and slid on that his mom found in a church. Cookbook sweet tea and his mom's peach cobbler but what distinguishes a cobbler from crisp? Or a buckle or a slump and his guys mom's unusual cobbler actually a cobbler. I called into baking expert. Seattle's Britney Bartoli been. She's been with Tom. Douglas Restaurant since two thousand eleven. And by the way. Tom Was the very first guest that I had on the podcast. Not only did he share his last meal. He shared the meal that will be served at his wake. Thomas already picked a menu. I think it's in his will. He wants to be in charge of what people eats after he dies. So you can go back to the very beginning and listened to that episode at Your own risk. It's the first episode. It's the wild west back. Then it's a pilot you know it's think of it as a pilot for a show that got way better. Hopefully so Britney is head pastry chef at Seattle's W lounge and Deli bakery and she has been a baker her entire working life so I was seventeen when I decided I wanted to be a baker. I was working at this little bakery and Issaquah and I was like you know counter girl and I was washing dishes in the back and I saw the pastry chef icing a cake. This is like day three at my job and I was like. She's getting paid to do that. What the heck that looks so fun. And so that's when I decided right then and there went to culinary school right out of high school and have been doing it ever since. I haven't looked back when you left culinary school. Did you have particular aspirations for what kind of Baker you want it to be? I didn't WanNa be you know buckled into one particular thing. So that's why I'm so happy doing what I do. We're going to get to buckles are just wondering they'd catch my eye. So I WANNA talk about the difference between a Chris. Crumble buckle slump a brown betty but what I I one figure out is is what guy calls a cobbler cobbler. Because when he explained it to me I thought that doesn't sound like a color at all. So here's the thing cobblers Chris all of those things. You can't really define them. It gets a little hazy for one thing. Americans have been eating these desserts since we got here but they weren't recipes that were ever written down so they were just passed down from generation to generation the first recipes. You see for these not even published until like the Twenties. What it sounds like he is describing it. Sounds like sort of a loose biscuit dough with fruit. The only difference in my mind between that and a cobbler is that the biscuit is on the bottom and the fruit is on the top. That's kind of okay. I would say yes. We'll go ahead and call that a cobbler to me. A cobbler is fruit on the bottom with some sort of drop biscuits on top and that's what a lot of people call a cobbler. You talked to somebody in the south. And they're like no it's with hydro so it's it's hard to define we're going to go ahead and call that a cobbler okay. Yes because when I was reading I thought oh it sounds more like a buccal. It does sound a lot. Like a buckle to me as well. So the buckle is more of a tender yellow cake batter and that goes on the bottom the fruit typically berries go on top and then there's usually like a strouss oil or crumble on top of that So it's Kinda like a coffee cake only fruit ear and it gets its name from like the topping. Buckles down on the fruit so I was asking you on the way to the studio. What do you call this category of Desserts? And you have your own name. I call it casserole desert because it's all fruit and some sort of free form carbohydrate thrown in addition bates a slump or a grunt is like the early version of a cobbler. That's what the English settlers made it was cooked on the stove as opposed to the oven. And so it's kind of like chicken and dumplings where the the biscuit sorta stews into the fruits. It was never very sweet typically eaten for breakfast. Yeah and you just kind of let it burble away until the dough is cooked through and that's your breakfast. It was sort of like a riff on their traditional steamed puddings and so that was just sort of how that that desert evolved in the new world. So that's a slump or a grunts. Lumper grunts lovely names. Are I loved on what is a brown betty. Okay so Brown. Betty typically made with buttered breadcrumbs or cake crumbs. And the difference here is you're layering it with the fruit your fruit crumbs fruit crumbs crumbs and then you bake it. Oh that sounds really yeah. They're delicious when I make Brown Betty. I go for cake. I make like a classic white cake and then crumble it up. Wow very fun like a mandala. You know the monks blowing away made yes. Yeah on that topic. There's Pan Dowdy. You Take Pie crust and you bake it on top of the fruit just like a cobbler and then right before it's done you can't take it out of the oven and ruin it you. It's called dowd eating. You smash that crust in to the fruit and then you put it back in the oven and everything that uses just mingle and it gets all fantastic but it's really ugly so doughty doughty so Chris. Which is the only one of these that I've ever made because I think it's so easy so easy that's just fruit on the bottom. A little lemon and sugar and then you make an haute mixture Colorado typically. It's the difference. Is that the butter is robbed into flour and sugar and typically OATS. Britney introduced me to a dessert called poke cake something that I had never heard of that. She ate throughout her entire Childhood in my mind. I can see the little recipe card with my mom's handwriting comes from her little accordion box. It she called it lemon lime refrigerator sheet cake and it was my favorite thing to make for my birthday every year. I would insist on making it myself. My Dad would be like well. I don't WanNa see you on Oprah's couch. Because he had to make your own birthday cake but the recipe I grew up eating. It has to be lemon supreme cake. Mix What brand is that. I think it's Dunkin hines okay. You Bake the cake and then you poke big holes in it with a with a wooden spoon and then you make lime Jello and before you let that Jello setup you slowly pour it over the cake and throw the whole thing in the refrigerator sets up when you slice into it. You see these sort of like zebra patterns of Yellowcake and Green Jello. So then you go for the whipped topping which is one package of dream. Whip one package of lemon pudding and then milk and you just whip the whole thing up and smear it all over the top. My birthday's in July so I was making it bring it to barbecues and people are like why is this cake so good. I hate myself and I do have a very trashy soul. I love trashy desserts. I love trashy fruit. Deserts another thing I grew up. Eating WAS DUMP K. We call it rhubarb dump. You are from the Pacific northwest. How do you have these mid western Passarelli? No so my mom was working. Mom and her mom was a working. Mom and I think they pulled from recipes the convenience recipe so they could still put a desert on the table and you know make their kids feel loved but it's took some help from packaged cake mix and Jello and so these desserts are sorta romanticized in my memory when I eat them now. It's just kind of it's not that good. Are you listening to US ON APPLE PODCASTS? You know the little purple APP on your iphone will if so have you left your last meal a review if not well you should. It's a fun little homework assignment and a good deed because the more reviews a podcast gets the easier it is for new listeners. To find us and you can follow along Engstrom instagram. Your last meal podcasts. All right we're GONNA take a quick break but when we come back. Why are prunes the joke of the dried fruit world Guys last meal he wants Yuba City Pheasant something that. He hunted with his dad every year. You don't strike me as a hunter tell me about your childhood hunting with your dad for pheasant. I hated it very much. I remember before my like eighth or ninth. Birthday was like my mom was a guy. Your Dad has something really exciting in store for you for your birthday. And what were you hoping I was like I is a Gi Joe of some sort or are we going to go see a movie that I WANNA see? My birthday was always the opening weekend of pheasant season and so we went out pheasant hunting and it just meant that. I had to wake up too early and wonder around a rice field. I thought it was dumb and involves sort of like male talk which is not something I understood. I didn't enjoy it at all. And it was only. In retrospect I really it now because you get to see a dog do their job getting to watch retrievers. Do the thing that they were built in trying to do is wonderful. People who think that it is cruel or weird but who also continue to eat meat. I think that that is disrespectful. Of the fact that this allows animals to lead a life and sort of extract nutrients from the environment in the most natural of ways and then turns them into meat and also it is being in touch with the world. That is feeding. You write like a natural world. I mean yeah I mean I think of most people had to kill their own animals. They wouldn't eat meat and I think it does shift your understanding and relationship to animals. I grew up with chickens in the backyard. That my mom or grandma would kill and knew that. That was what the meal was. I think that it brings a lot of honesty to the situation and I think you're right people. It would shift their relationship to me so going back. Did you ever shoot pheasant or were you just along for the ride and trying not to participate? People throughout my childhood just kept giving me guns and I was like what's going on. Why are we doing this like when I started out? I just had to be begun that I would shoot. But then eventually my grandpa gave me his shotgun and it was a quantum is supposed to do with this so yeah. I have shot pheasants likely mentioned earlier guys hometown. Yuba city thrives on agriculture. Besides the rice and the almonds it also happens to be the prune capital of the world. What an honor. California grows ninety nine percent of the country's prunes and forty percent of the world's problems if you didn't know prunes are plums and these are a small special variety of French plum. They're very sweet. And they were first planted in California in eighteen fifty two. Yuba city is also home to Sun. Sweet the largest dried fruit processing plant in the world. Prunes poor prunes. I mean prunes somehow became the poster child for constipation and old ladies so I think people tend to think of prunes as a laxative. And that they're this food for old people here and Locie is the director of Communications for the California Prune Board. We don't really know why prints have stick. It's kind of been around for a long time and remains and it's uniquely an oddly American in other countries prints are regarded as a delicacy and their beloved treat. Twenty years ago they changed their name to the dried plum board. There was this shift in thinking that maybe the word Prune was such a turn off people that if we defined what it was called it a dried plum which is what a prune is that maybe people would not feel so turned off by that. I don't know that it really took off the way that it was intended to. We had done some market research to that the connotation for prunes as being kind of a lack of isn't really deter off for people after all there isn't as much baggage connected that as we had thought here and said the problem was that people just didn't think of prunes when they felt like eating something healthy so they decided to own who they were and go back to them. Prunes food writer Gabriella. Gershon grew up loving prunes but until she went off to school. She didn't know that there was a stigma attached to them. You know when you grow up in your family's house you don't know what you're eating is weird until you go to school and some kid tells you that it is cream cheese and jelly. Thanks mom really. I've heard so many people eating that I thought that was a normal food. Yeah I'm ridiculed on the daily Ono. I'm here to tell you your normal. You're welcome Gabriella. Wrote a piece for. Npr called give prunes a chance. I grew up in a health food household where you really have to search are in wide for something that could satisfy your sweet tooth and what. I suspect that they probably found the prunes That was in the eighties and it was sweet and we really weren't allowed sweets in the house but I also legit liked them and I still do when in your life. Did you realize that they were a little bit of a joke? And that you started hiding your love of this food from friends co workers not eating them in public. I think that the stigma was probably pretty early on. I would imagine well under the age of ten and really all comes back to having a health food mom and I'm sure any listeners out there who had a parent who really monitored their eating and was putting stuff in their lunches that were good for them probably experiencing similar to I. Did which is kids not finding your food desirable. Making Fun of it and to me I think prudence is kind of fell into that category of if someone sees me eating this I am not cool and then when did you reclaim your prunes. When you just decided that you didn't care anymore I went. When did I stop? Carrie I mean I definitely cared into my twenties. I think probably at a certain point you do stop caring about so many things and I definitely have reached that point to now. I think it's legitimately cooled to like things that were various densely counterculture health food crunchy grocery items yet. Now they call it wellness. So it's like a little more. Glamorous it's GUCA FIDE IT turns out. Prunes are a pretty popular snack in many other countries and cultures. And they show up in many savory stewed European and Middle Eastern dishes. What are some dishes that you liked that feature prunes prominently? You know as a Jewish family. There were the holidays that involves brisket and a lot of the time that you know. Braised meat is combined wits prunes or you can put apricots and that's a really common combination for Eastern European Jews. The sweet and savory in another very Russian thing which was a real treat and I still seek them out. Whenever I'm at a Russian grocery store is a prune dipped in chocolate. It's just like if you go to the bulk candy. I'll also like a Polish grocery store. You might find prunes dipped in chocolate and to me. They're just so sophisticated and they're such delicacy and I just love them here and says you can puree them and use them as a natural sweetener like a lot of people are doing with dates. These days there fudgy. And they're flavorful. They're kind of leathery on the outside but soft inside. And I think they really deliver a lot in terms of flavor and texture so that's just an encouragement for anyone out there. Listening to this is like Larry. Talking about prunes. They've got a lot to offer. Do you secretly worked for the California Prune Board. I should because I'm giving them a lot of really good. Pr Right now Yeah in PR STANDS FOR PRUNE PRINT RELATION relations sold. I haven't had approved since I was a kid when my mom basically medicated herself with them. Which is why I always knew that prunes were for poop in but but Gabriella Fudgy. I liked that as a description for food. That isn't chocolate do you. Yes I I know I know it. Sounds kind of gross. Maybe you're thinking of the color but like when you make the perfect seven or eight minute egg. The Yolk is called Fungi I like that I wanNA fudgy prune all right my new band the Fudgy prunes and with that sorry guy that was your last meal. Guy Com to see his stand up tour schedule and if you were like the recipe for my mom's Cobbler. It is in my book. My Life Zagat us. I do thanks to Bernie Barton. Who a lot of people know as Brittany B. She's the head history chef at Dahlia Bakery and Dahlia Lounge. Stop IN AND TASTE. Her tasty treats thanks to cure and low see from the California Prune Board and food writer Gabriella consent. And if you're new to the podcast welcome make sure and go back and check out my interview from August with Duff Mackay given the original basis from guns N. roses. I love this last meal. Because it's based on his very first job at the Black Angus steakhouse and in December. I chat with New York Times food columnist and cookbook author Alison Roman about the perfect slice of pizza. This episode was produced by Laura Scott and meave recorded with Aaron Mason original theme music by prompting. I'm Rachel Bell and this is your last meal guy grew up in an almond farm on an almond farm inside signed an almond farm.

Yuba city California California Prune Board Seattle Brown bettys Guy Brand Gabriella Fudgy Rachel Bell Pacific northwest Ricefield Yuba City California Sacramento Chico Britney San Francisco Washington Britney Bartolini Rachel writer Chico State
S04 Episode 7: Called to the Forest (Pt. 1 of 2)

Unexplained

30:56 min | 1 year ago

S04 Episode 7: Called to the Forest (Pt. 1 of 2)

"The today's episode of unexplained is brought to you by travel channel's new series portals to hell premiering Friday, April twenty eighth at ten pm nine pm central join Jacko's Boone and Katrina Whiteman as they investigate notorious pointed locations, like the Alaskan hotel, Bobby Mackie's music world and eastern state penitentiary in search of irrefutable evidence. That a spirit world exists watch the series premiere a portals to hell this Friday, attempy M nine PM central only on travel channel and stream a sneak peek on the free travel channel app today. closely into the daily goings on of any town city and soon enough you'll come across something a little unsavory or unsettling. A strange paradox. When you consider that such places are often held up as examples of our superior sense of civility. We need not be so hard on our selves. However. Considering the number of different people ideas, all crammed into gather in these places. It's a wonder they functioned at all. That's it. When things happen there that aren't to our liking. We have only ourselves to blame. And it is only through ourselves alone. But we can rectify such unwanted situations. The same cannot be said for the town of causal rock the principal location. And title of the recent Hulu TV series based on the words of Stephen King. Without wanting to give anything away the show, essentially details the life of a seemingly quaint and quiet town in which darkness in one form or another appears especially drawn to it. I was reminded of this show. When researching this week story? The why would never suggest an entire town. Or in this case, a whole region was pre two naturally susceptible to unfortunate things if I were to believe that such things were possible. However, this place would certainly provide a compelling case study. The Yuba Sutter area, which Yuba city is the principal. City begins ten miles to the north of Sacramento and stretches north westwards towards the foothills of the Sierra Nevada mountain range. In the early eighteenth century much of the land, which would eventually encompass most of you candy, including the Yuba city area was sold to a highly controversial individual named John Sutter around one hundred and fifty years later, the county's name would become synonymous with one of the United States most enduring and tragic mysteries. You're listening to unexplained and I'm Richard McLean. Smith. Nearly nineteenth century Johann Sutton had been wanted for fraud in his home country of Switzerland before deciding to change his name to John and take his chances in the fledgling United States. Leaving behind a wife and five children. He arrived in New York in eighteen thirty four and spent the next five years exhaustively touring the continent to get the measure of it. After managing to ingratiate himself with a number of prominent euro, American dignitaries. He eventually settled in what was then Alta, California in the summer of eighteen thirty nine. The time Alto California was relatively undeveloped province of Mexico having so far managed to resist the clutches of the ever expanding United States. Realizing the area's potential Sutter succeeded in convincing the local governor to sell him almost fifty thousand acres of land along the Sacramento river. The following year. He established a trading colony which he named you Helvetica. Rarely such a story of land purchase complete without some form of native American displacement or indeed slaughter and Sutter's was no different. Local tribes the tw-. I'm willing to recognize these self appointed owners of the lands that they lived on were dispensed with swiftly being either forcibly moved or exterminated entirely. Any tribes the opted to cooperate with the euro American or Mexican settlements would invariably be put to work as little more than slaves. The exact number of native Americans that were killed in the establishing of new hill is unknown. It is thought however that Sutter kept as many as six to eight hundred of them slaves often, locking them up in squalid, pens and placing their food and troughs forcing them to eat like farm animals. It is also speculated that he raped native American girls as young as twelve years old. In eighteen forty eight. Gold was discovered on Sutter's land. However, any hope he had of profiting from it was swiftly dashed when his efforts to keep it secret failed miserably within months Sutter's. Land was overrun with swathes prospectors feverishly clearing at the earth in search of the shiny metal. Such was the speed with which the goldrush unfolded those little that such a good do to stop them. Having bought more land in a bid to claim ownership with any gold found on it Sutter soon found himself in major debt. With no other options. He was forced to sell off his land, transferring any deeds he had left into the name of his son. His land. Owning ambitions were finished. Comic come up, and perhaps if you believe in such things. To if you believe in such things, you might say the series of events would before the region in subsequent years where we're inevitable, given what many would consider to be such rotten beginnings. Part of the land. That was forced to sell was located just forty miles north of new Helvetica and centered around the confluence of the Uber and feather rivers. The land was sold in eighteen forty nine to a small consortium of men headed by Samuel Brennan who quickly established Yuba city in the middle of it. Almost immediately. The fledgling city was overshadowed by Marysville. The town on the opposite Bank of the fed the river which newcomers found much easier to access but sued it began to prosper and over the next one hundred years the city grew steadily from a population of three hundred to seven and a half thousand. Then in December nineteen fifty five a series of devastating storms battered, northern California. After days of relentless rain, just after midnight on December twenty fourth Levy broke on the West Bank of the fed river, sending a wall of water twenty one feet high cascading into the county and flooding ninety percent of Yuba city. Seventy four people were killed. Five years later, a Boeing fifty two bomber plane carrying two three point eight megaton thermonuclear bombs flying into the vicinity of Yuba county. Experienced a sudden and inexplicable loss of pressure in the fuselage. After ordering the rest of the crew to bail out the heroic pilot managed to stay in the cockpit. Just long enough to steer the plane away from Yuba city before bailing out himself. A totally four thousand feet. The plane would eventually crash into a Bali field. Just eleven miles to the west of the city. Miraculously no, radioactive material was released as a result. In late spring, nineteen seventy-one a Yuba county peach farmer noticed a large freshly dug hole on his land that had no apparent purpose? When he found it filled in the next day, he became suspicious and called the police to investigate it. Digging away the fresh dirt they found a man's body underneath riddled with stab wounds. The man was just one of at least twenty five migrant farm workers from around the Yuba county area that serial killer and Yuba city resident one corona was eventually convicted of murdering. Corona had been previously diagnosed with schizophrenia, which some believe was triggered by the trauma. He suffered as a witness to the worst affects of the nineteen fifty five flood. Another five years later the school bus carrying the Yuba city. High school choir broke through a guardrail just outside the city of Martinez plunging thirty feet to the ground. Twenty eight teenagers from the city, and they're chaperone were killed instantly in what was the worst school bus accident ever recorded in the United States at the time. And yet incredibly despite this litany of tragedy the one for which the area would become most well known had yet to pass. The story most often referred to as the Yuba county. Five is a bizarre and heartbreaking mystery the remains to this day unexplained. Mum, have you seen? My Gators shirt. Tried Gary from the laundry room a needed for the game tomorrow. Gary mom, Ida appeared a moment later holding the base t shirt complete with its gateway Gators logo emblazoned across it all washed and ready to go. Thanks, Gary taking it before running to place it with the rest of his kit that he'd laid out in preparation for the next day. Just then the sound of a car horn could be heard coming from the turquoise mercury Montego that adjust pulled up outside the front of the house. The here said Gerry excitedly as he grabbed his jacket and headed to the door. Remember got a big game tomorrow. Don't let me sleep in. He said, yes, I know said Ida before kissing her son goodbye and seeing him out the door. It was February twenty fourth nineteen seventy eight in the small district of olive Hirst just to the south of Yuba city far off in the distance the northern tip of the Sierra Nevada mountains could be seen. It's pine covered ranges still capped with snow down in the valley. However, it was barely jacket whether as a pale sun was slowly beginning its final descent toward the horizon. Waiting for Gary outside in the Montaigue. Oh was thirteen year old driver and north vehicles. Jack Ma drew accompanied by thirty two year old Ted we and the twenty four year old Jack Hewitt. The others shouted for Gary to hurry up as he raised to the car and jumped into the front seat. Moments later, they pulled away. His Ida waved them off from her front door. A few minutes later, they were parking up outside a small house onto later street in Yuba city to collect the fifth and final member of the group twenty nine year old Bill sterling. With Bill finally settled in the backseat they were on their way once more. The five men with friends from around the Yuba county area who had met the gateways project a local organization that helped adults with intellectual disabilities to better navigate their lives. Driver, Jack Madrid was perhaps the least affected by his disability. Although he had never been diagnosed with anything specific his thought processes were considered to be slower than average. An army veteran Jack had served two years in Vietnam. As a truck driver and had recently started a job as a dishwasher at a local dried fruit company. Ted and Bill with the closest in the group having known each other for almost eight years. Ted had been doing especially well recently gaining employment through the gateway project repairing cables for local gas intellect trinity company, just like the others. Ted was not thought capable of fending for himself. So lived at home with his parents. In his case. This was due to what some considered to be a basic lack of common sense. One time when Ted's parents house caught fire Ted had been more concerned about getting a good night's sleep. Then the flames the took begun raging above his bed. His brother had to forcibly pull him out of the house to save him. When Ted tried to make friends with strangers. He could never understand why they seem so intimidated by him or why they wouldn't simply wave back when he waved at them. Bill. Sterling also done well to gain employment working as a dishwasher at the nearby Beale air force base Bill enjoyed the position especially the sense of independence at had given him. However, he was instructed by his parents to quit the job not long after taking it after they discovered that some of the m and there had been plying him with alcohol and stealing his wages. Bill had spent much of his youth in Napa state psychiatric hospital being generally mis-diagnosed and misunderstood. Of all of them twenty four year old Jack who could not read write or use a telephone was generally thought to be the most severely affected by his disabilities. Having met Ted back when he was sixteen Jack who was also Tepelea shy. We'd come to rely heavily on him and pair become firm friends as a result. And then there was Gary. Unlike the other four who often went everywhere together and had known each other for an extended period of time. Twenty five year old Gary Mathias was a fairly new addition to the group. Gary was also an army veteran stationed for a few years in Germany. After suffering psychiatric episode proton by hallucinogenic drug use Gary was discharged and sent home for the past two years. However, Gary had been well and successfully holding down a job stepfather, Robert clocks gardening business. Gary had been introduced to the gateway project as a way of finding new friends and bonded with the others of their mutual. Love of basketball. All of them played for the gateway Gators the projects basketball team and we're looking forward to a big tournament. They would you to play in the following morning, which promised an all expenses paid trip to Los Angeles for the winning team. That night. However their excitement was for a different game. The friends were heading up to Chico now is drive to the north to watch their favorite team university, California Davis take on Chico state. Despite their disabilities. Such a trip wasn't unusual since the boys regularly travelled together to watch them play their home stadium in David's or anywhere else. That wasn't too far to drive before returning straight home. That night shouldn't have been any different. After picking up Bill. The men made a quick stop it. Mike O service station on collusive avenue. The other state in the car is Bill ran inside to pick up his fifteen dollar allowance from his parents who ran the place. Bill's mother pointy to who was concerned about the men making the trip the night before they're torn amount tried again to dissuade his son from going. As Bill explained. However tonight was the last chance that get to watch their team the season. And there was no way they were going to pass that up. Realizing it was a lost cause for Nita won't Bill. Not to be back to late before sending him on his way. Later that night. The men watched with delight as you see Davis picked up there. Seventy th win of the season beating Chico ninety eight to eighty six. Shortly after ten pm the men left the Chico university stadium and piled back into jacks. Montego? Soon after leaving the parking lot. One of the men suggested they make a quick stop to get some supplies for the return journey. Pulling up outside a convenience store moments later, they were disappointed to find the shop clock closing the place up after taking pity on them. However, she agreed to stay open just long enough for them to get what they needed. A short time later the men were back in the car loaded with some fruit pies and chocolate bars as Jack slowly eased onto the road before heading off into the night. Twenty two sterling hadn't taken to is of the clock since midnight. Old things going to plan. Her son should have been home by then. By two AM. She couldn't hold out any longer. It wasn't the first time that Bill hadn't come home on time or even missing completely oven. He would go and stay with friends and just simply forget to call home each previous occasion. He had never been more than a quick phone. Call away. Trying not to panic when heater picked up the phone and dialed Melba Jack Madrid's mother with whom he lived in nearby. Linda. But Jack was also yet to come home. It was a few hours later that Ted's mother imaging who had slept through the earlier phone calls woke up to find her son's bed empty having not been slept in the night before. Calling one eater immediately. She was shocked to find both Bill and Jack for also still missing. Calling Jack Hewitt's mother soon after imaging got the same response. The last hope was that the boys had all gone to Garry Matthias, his family home. Since the we is lived just down the street from them immature, daughter-in-law, volunteer to go and check if they were there. The look on her face when she returned was all imaging needed to know. The men would you to meet the rest of the gateway Gators team later that morning outside a store in Marysville. Knowing the five wouldn't have missed that tournament for the world a few at the family members traveled to the stool in hope that their sons and brothers might yet be there. But the men never appeared. By eight pm having still heard nothing from the Melba Maruta informed. The Yuba county sheriff's office, the tests son and his full best friends were missing. That we can't the various families spent days in a complete Hayes anxiously looking out for any mention of car crash or sighting of the missing men, but nothing came on Monday. Having heard nothing from the police on eater took it on herself to drive to Chico where she handed out pictures of the five friends to the various ticket sellers and security offices at the university basketball stadium. None however recognized the faces that had been sat in the venue for over two hours. Only a few nights before. In the meantime, the sheriff's office had released a statement to the local press giving a detailed description of the missing men and the vehicle they were travelling in urging anyone to come forward who might have important information as to their whereabouts. Having been given a brief description of the personalities he was looking for taking into account, the intellectual disabilities Yuba county undershirt, Jack Beecham was dumped as to what might have happened to them. Certainly, no crashes with that type of vehicle had been reported and judging by how the parents described it. It was no reason to suggest that the men had struck out on an impromptu you road trip. The following day Beecham received an unexpected call from plumas national forest ranger will out Burrows. Boris had been making his way along forest road when he came across abandoned car. He hadn't thought anything about it at the time would having seen a news report about the missing men later that day he felt to call it in. Beecham was confused. Plumas forest covered. The northern tip of the Sierra Nevada mountains and was located about seventy miles east of Chico in the complete opposite direction to where the men were supposed to have been heading. Moreover, the point at which claimed to have seen the car was four thousand feet high into them. But Boris was adamant the vehicle he had seen a turquoise mercury. Montego? The following day Wednesday March first onto sheriff beach him with a handful of deputies made his way to the sport detailed by forest range of berries. An hour later. The officers found themselves leaving the mild flats at the Yuba shutter area and heading up into the Sierra Nevada mountains toward the snow covered. Pines of plumas national forest. With the temperature steadily dropping to higher they claimed he was soon approaching the snow line at an altitude of roughly four thousand feet. The road was known locally Oroville Quincy road running from the foothill town of Oroville at the western edge of the mountains snaking east via the town of Quincy all the way through to the other side during the summer months. The roads would be jammed with daytrippers holidaymakers heading out to one many cabins that dotted the surrounding area with bucks lake located in the middle of the forest about fifty miles from Oroville being the biggest drool. During the winter months. However by the time, you had reached this new line the road would quickly become impossible to all. But the most hardy vehicles. It was at this point with the unpaved forest road becoming ever narrower and more rugged beach him spotted the car that will are berries had come across. Although by now, it was carrying a light dusting of snow beach him could see clearly that it was indeed a turquoise nineteen sixty nine mercury one Tako. Peach him, wrapped his jacket a little tighter about himself as he made his way through the slush toward the vehicle. Brushing away, the snow from the window. You looked inside. Empty food. Wrappers was strewn about on the backseat along with a couple of basketball programs, but the vehicle was otherwise empty. Trying to door surprised to find it unlocked, but the keys gone. Pulling a panel from under the steering wheel Beecham fiddled with the wires until the car's engine roared into life. The year watched as the needle on the dashboard, moved up to reveal at least a quarter tank of gas left in it. Stepping after the car Beecham to in the scene around him staring off into the trees that back away from the road the ground covered in fresh snow from the night before. All was completely silent. And there was no sign of track marks anywhere beating down off the road. Looking at the front wheels. He could see that they were a little stuck in the snow. But it was nothing that quick push. Couldn't have dislodged. None of it seemed to make sense. Why on earth with the five friends of driven up into the mountains and then abandoned to car like this with absolutely no reason to. Unless of course, it hadn't been democrat all to brought it there in the first place. Could it be beach thought that it had been stolen and merely dumped there? With that might put the five missing men would be anyone's guess at this point. After calling it in Beecham was promptly appointed to lead the search for the missing men. Forty personnel from Uber, plumas and Butte county along with the snowmobiles and to highway patrol helicopter who drafted in. For the rest of the day. They searched every inch of the surrounding forest within a five mile radius of the abandoned car for any sign of the two jacks Hewitt and Madrid STA. Bill Stirling, Ted. We're and Gary Matthias, but no clue to their possible. Whereabouts was found. Beecham knew only too well that if the five men had driven into the mountains after all only to abandon their vehicle their survival would depend on finding shelter. Very quickly failure to do. So stumbling blindly in the dog in subzero temperatures dressed as they were for a mild evening would most likely be fatal. What's more? It did now being almost a week since they had disappeared. And no one in the immediate area had seen them nor were they found in any of the nearby cabins that they might assault as a place of refuge later that day. Undersheriff Beecham had the unenviable task of informing the families of just what they had discovered. It was hard to gauge which scenario offered them the most hope whether the vehicle had been stolen and amend possibly assaulted and left stranded. Elsewhere. Or whether they themselves for reasons unknown had abandoned the car high up in amount late at night in minus zero temperatures. What beach did know? However was that neither scenario looked good. The end of part one unexplained season for episode seven called to the forest. You can hit the second and final part next Friday, April twenty six. If you enjoy listening to unexplained and would like to help supporters you can now go unexplained podcasts dot com forward slash support. All donations. No matter how large your small a massively. Appreciate. All elements of unexplained produced by me. Richard mclean. Smith, please subscribe and rate the show on I tunes and feel free to get in touch with any thoughts. Right. Is regarding the stories you've heard on the show. Perhaps you have an explanation of your own you'd like to share. You can reach his online unexplained podcasts dot com. Twitter at unexplained port and Facebook at Facebook dot com forward slash unexplained.

Bill Stirling Yuba county Yuba city Gary Ted Undersheriff Beecham United States Melba Jack Madrid John Sutter Yuba California Plumas Yuba Sutter Jack Hewitt Sierra Nevada mountains Marysville basketball Chico Richard mclean Smith
A mouse in the house with Guy Branum

The Endless Honeymoon Podcast

1:00:18 hr | Last month

A mouse in the house with Guy Branum

"Hello welcome to the endless honeymoon podcast or we starting now it'll have to still chewing nicotine gum trying to chew to a last second shoe to the to the red light goes on. We are on the Air Ladies and gentlemen. My name is Mosha casher and I'm Natasha Zero. Spit it out. You can always tell someone's talking with a lot of Nicorette and you can feel it's kind of like Tacos of what my old podcast partner Neal Brennan that I used to do a podcast with called the champs he used to eat cheeseburgers while we were dead casting. You'll be like cheeseburger person he's like such a healthy eater with no maybe it was a Vegan cheeseburger, but it's still like a full on Burger. So be good you're starting calling through. Rule. Anyway how are you? You look good. You look beyond say. Well you know, I have a closet full of clothes up stairs I used to wear out to my shows. So now I'm just kind of I asked me. I asked my child to pick out an outfit today. She said this looks cool. Because you know why I had a robot until six. So what I feel much better. I'll tell you what I like. This is not an original observation, but it is very freeing to if you're working on zoom, it's very freeing to go to work in shorts and just like. The gaff either Gov. And do you don't give a fuck? That's cool. But what about the top? Nothing on top shorts on the bottom nothing on the top sometimes some shaving cream in my chest hair i. feel like if I had a zoom job I would always be like ten fifteen minutes late Armand time all the time you know what I like my commute. Commute is rolling over. That's my favorite part. Pop Over I. Shower I've taken a shower or one minute before the writer's room start. I literally in the shower suds in my hair. Gently stroking my myself getting ready for the WORKDAY. Well, this reminds me I, think we should call our our guests because now he has the jobs and I'd love to get his take. Zoom jobs in writers rooms, but he you and I used to all work in a writer's room together on period on your show and other period we've also had his own show. He had a game, the game show which I was actually wearing. A swag. This very afternoon. We started comedy together in San Francisco. Yeah. Only one of the funniest people I know you should get his book too Oh. He is just a brilliant comedic mind good person and quite a good quail chef. Oh my God. He's an Amazing Chef Ladies and gentlemen the One and only Guy Branam. Yomas do you have a business that requires male? I do you do? I mean I like Mellow Fan mail headshots. Let's say you're fan mail and headshot got so big. You started a little cottage industry doing okay. Well, you should use a company that makes shipping easier a company like ship station. When you're selling online, getting a massive amount of orders out quickly can be tough. How do you keep track of who gets what which shipping carriers should you use? Are you getting the best rates? Ships station helps online sellers get orders out quickly, save money on shipping costs and keeps your customers. Happy. No matter what you're selling or where you're selling a from Amazon se, your own website ship station brings all your orders into one simple interface. Ship Station is the number one choice of online sellers you'll ship more and less time with the best rates available. Take care of all of the details so that you can focus on your business. So right now, endless honeymoon listeners can try ship station for free for sixty days. When you use the offer code honeymoon, make sure businesses ready to meet the demands of a massive online shopping season get started at ship station dot, com, click on the microphone at the top of the homepage and type in honeymoon. That's ship station DOT com, and enter offer code honeymoon ship. STATION DOT com make ship happened. Tash. Do you like sleeping with me I do I mean sleeping in the bed with me? Yes. I like our mattress. What mattress is that that is a helix mattress. He looks mattress. There's a lot of mattress companies out there, and this is our favorite one. It's a tough time to sleep right now because politics pandemics your love life. Listening to podcasts keep you up all night. HELIXSLEEP has a quiz takes just two minutes to complete and matches your body type and sleep preferences to the perfect match for you. If you like a mattress, it's really soft or firm or you sleep on your side or your back your stomach really hot with Helix as a specific mattress for each and everybody's unique taste. We took the quiz we were matched with a firm. He looks mattress and it's cool. I'm a stomach sleeper and that's what I like put Natasha's not so. I my side and I wanted a little more. I don't have back issues because I'm you know you're looking spry? Yes. But don't take our word for it. He looks is not only the recommendation of this podcast. It's also been awarded the number one best mattress pick up twenty, nineteen and twenty, twenty by G.. Q. And wired magazine just go to helix dot com slash honeymoon take their two minute sleep quiz and they'll match you a customize mattress. They'll give you the best sleep of your life. We've got a ten year warranty you can try it out for one hundred nights risk-free and they'll even pick it up for you if you don't love it but we know you will once again. Helix sleep dot com slash honeymoon helix. H. E.. L. I. X. SLEEP DOT COM slash honeymoon for up to two hundred dollars off. I. Brennan Haggai. Pretty. Good. How are you? I'm doing well I am in other city And she's falling from. Is It on fire? City and village fire, but the mountains on either side of us are so. We're just getting the act and the real apocalyptic. So it looks like Farren Cisco was pretty fucking creepy today to look like Mars but my question guy, how close are you to like a like do people there think you need to evacuate We don't need evacuate, but my niece's boyfriend had to evacuate she daylight live up in the mountains where we lived on about a rare. So I say the fire is not going to get. There was a fire over at this place called. Mammoth. Pool and there was one hundred and fifty campers trapped there and the Sheriff said you may need to jump in the pool. That was the escape plan and just go into the body. Is California over guy is this unsustainable? I. Think it's entirely possible I mean like let's accountable is saying the world is ending his now hack I feel like hope is the old they comedians choice because Like it just like it really just keeps getting worse. Oh you're saying like the subversive, the subversive punk rock messages for a person and be like you know I really think everything's GonNa be okay. Yeah. That you think about it you think like Corona police shootings. The election. I global warming. What's good though we got a good good stuff the economic collapse. I'm just saying it's like it's all happening at once. Natasha we have HBO MAC and peacocks we've got. The Turner Classic Movies Collection About that I was just scrolling through it because my mother doesn't know how to operate the Apple. TV. Trying to find something to entertain her while I was on with is is What's he walks in? What did we land on She was spending shoots having more fun slowly perusing the option than actually selecting anything which I respect. So you are just quarantining with your family that's really cool and your mom must have done something right for you to be willing to do that. I would only back because I was here from types over last time I. saw you guys. City, the plastic Passover destination. But I only came back because it was my birthday and then I needed to pitch a show that is directly knocking my family and so I needed to be in my mom how? Nineteen eighty one copy of woman. To properly show you gotTA freshen up and you're there for inspirations I would do that. That's really funny. Guy When you're in Yuba city for an extended period of time like do you what's up with like? Like. Is is that just off the table or or their secret on clubs? It is largely off the table I'm not saying that I have not. Here I. AM saying that the grinder population is mostly nineteen year olds who if not acquired the capital Jerry? Having acquired the capital to leave. Yes, it's like it's like forty nineteen year olds and farmer Tom. Tom I said No. No it's very true. It's a little unfortunate like Ours has to be like, no like. A wonderful thing that I've learned from grinder in that settlement was exactly forty seven miles away from my. Is that doable? Anything, I mean. Not Not, really I mean I would have to be here extended here the. Ronan virus essentially that I started. Commuting to Sacramento. For, that sort of thing just to West Hollywood, which is the grand into banks of Bryant during. Just. Throw out a net and your vote is full efficient. Yeah. But way just the way pretty soon guesses going to pop up in your West Hollywood grinder feed. Former. Tom. He's back baby. Well Guy I'm glad that you're safe and that you're by a lake. Guy We have a gay question glass you a gay question. Okay. Let's see if you're qualified answer it because really it's a lesbian question and I know that you you've only dabbled We had a call last week. Where caller? Okay see how you would have handled this a caller was in a relationship with a man wanted to stay in the relationship with the man loved and was attracted to the man but was saying I'm ninety nine percents. Sure I'm gay what do I do? It's a woman it was a woman so I was like. My advice was. Well it sounds like you're too worried about figuring out your identity and you can just be attracted to your tractor to, but then I was like I mentioned the word identity a lot. But then I was like I don't know the answer to this question. The felt like a young person thing more even a queer thing. Is is that what is is that a thing like I am gay? My identity is gay but I am in a relationship with an opposite sex person that a modern thing what do you think? I mean, it's interesting because I'm like is this person bisexual and they don't feel comfortable identifying as bisexual because we love to erase by factual or just took on a attention seeking or Smutty and me saying not only reaffirmed that idea in you're listening public but I also think women are like nice and don't want to hurt people's feelings and like I can see this person you know she's a into have opposite sex relationships like we all are gets into a relationship with a guy who should right I mean the thing is it's cheap to be and go be a lesbian for awhile. All that lesbian have to offer her and I feel like this would just be. Slowly pulling she wants to very slowly bandage and try to not hurt guy and it's only going to hurt him worse. Maybe he would get them to three way out of it. On the way out. What do they call it to deport the parting gift or whatever I think you gave me one of those did your your game show I think you gave me like a band saw. Is always so bad when you know it's the last time you're gonNA fuck the person on the way out so That's funny. I don't know that I had a lot of that because I didn't have a lot of sustained stuff going on. Well, it's not great. Well, maybe you and I will have some some they'll be able to tell you. I'm Guy, do you feel qualified to at least if you don't give people advice, just make fun of their problem or something. You can also be nice to them. That's boring that's not good content and. All. Three of US know that we've done a panel show well, I want to ask you what you think of the coronavirus but most you'll probably get mono. Guys probably guy your wasn't the smartest people we collectively knows. Someone I wish I would've been talking to more on this pandemic like is there anything that you've learned or thought or are looking forward to or do you just want to give this? I. Truly horrifying moments. First of all, it's first week. You guys are various kind as well as I would I got like. A poll like an official like from Colin Company Paul and I was filling it out and I got to the Question Gee you beers that the corona virus was created in a lab. And it was a situation of like I understand intellectually but that is a bunker. Conspiracy Theory I also I said yes. I. Love. I love the rational world I love believing in our technocrats I, Love Understanding that viruses are incubating all the time and global warming is probably making them incubate even faster but I was like, no, it's. Possible that this is some sort of. fucked up like. Like plot but Chinese government to get rid of old people or to like destabilize world politics that we wouldn't notice why they stole Song Cong. which did worked out very well for them, I so. So, are you saying then guy this is this Cunanan. This is Everything Natasha. Doesn't really understand what Cunanan so. Everything weird that anybody does she's like is that Q. and on is this cute guy isn't saying that he believes that it's created in a lab. So I believe he is I mean. I when I was listening to the BBC that that was still on the table, it wasn't like necessarily nefarious. It was just these mistakes happen. There's Mishandling of ex- you know an and also did happen to happen right at the time when everyone was coming and going in the Chinese New Year. So that was like exacerbated at all and then shot it out across the world. And also. China has. Had such like a a low infection rate compared to a? Point of human on it's hard to track. You have to vote chewing on antesa gate arm methods like both not. Matlock. Lake. well, a bunch of now celebrity dirt are adjective pedophila like I don't. Want to be fair to be fair. There's a lot of celebrities. There's only one adjective and it's always. They don't have a bigger race in their accusations I. Same wires anyone still talking about that. That is just like the if that's the only evidence, that's the only example of their of their system or their. Example the one that everyone sites, every time I ask them and I'm like that was just a facebook like. That wasn't that just a joke or something or off is so obvious it wasn't real will it was not real and they they knew for sure it wasn't real when the man burst into the pizza place with a with a machine gun and kick down the door to find the basement and they're like much like. Great Adventure. There was no basement in the office. So they weren't saying they weren't saying that I store your pizza game. Is Still. Possible. Point. A to what that that violence could happen again. I believe that it will I. If I had to guess I would say that it will Cunanan is a is a real quick quagmire but I do think it's a funny I kind of do you understand it guy? Do. You want me to give you the. Thirty second version share. Okay. Four. Okay Four Chan was this like meam aggregated website was kind of the beginning of the like the funny Internet, but it was also the beginning of the the racist Internet and the The nihilistic. We'll do what we want and troll you so hard. It will destroy you. Internet right. That turned that turned into a bunch of different websites that have kind of gone down the tubes because as that floodgate opened or it was like there are no rules and you can post anonymously the content started to become more and more horrifying to getting to like deeply racist deeply awful. But it was all generated by this anon- anonymous posting thing. No one ever knew who was posting what so you can post anything the most horrifying things in the world you could docs people you could send you could swap people because nobody knew who was doing what then all of a sudden so that four Chan became a website called. Chan which became a website called eight coon because they kept get shutting down. Getting shut down because of the content was getting so bad it was becoming violent and dangerous finally somewhere around the trump election someone posted something on one of those anonymous websites where where it it said I am Q- And Hillary Clinton is going to be arrested for something or other on this date and people were like, Whoa, there's somebody that is that is posting from the government. They can only post here because this is the only place that you're truly anonymous. So this is probably True Hillary Clinton did not as you will. May Or may not know get arrested on that date but this started a ball rolling with who who knows who Q. is cute could be one person. It could be a bunch of trolls it could be it but this this, this queue thing keeps posting on these anonymous websites, ominous messages of like the of sort of like I'm in the government. And there's a secret like six thirty and the deep state. vis-a-vis some kind of weird pedophile ring Ding Ding Ding Mad libs. And and I'm trying I and Donald Trump and trying to fight this deep state and the do not give up. Hope the great battle will be won, and now it's become un-american religion people. It got so big from that believing that little kernel of that. That was really a person in the government got big that it now no longer even matters what Q. is or what the messages from Qr are. They are people that believe that there was a grand conspiracy that only they are privy to the truth of, which is truly the start of every. Religion, that has ever existed guy saying that the coronavirus was started in a lab in China I would say that guy is at serious risk becoming a Q. On. The one thing I know about you and on is that they believe it. So celebrities are stealing something from the blood of young people and I like the in a new fashioned conspiracy theory. You can take them old fashioned Ju- blood libel. I'm Mike give it give it new life. It's exciting. It's bothering me because that was our intellectual property and as a Jew I'm very about that kind of thing. That you do think on. Just. Like These conspiracy theories. Are Therefore country where no one speaks French but a bunch of people speak Elvis like I mean, that's a bad example but I do think it is like people don't learn actual history or like. Things work, and then they turned thirty seven and they start wondering and much easier to have. A, like marvel movie version of how things work then to understand how it actually works because they haven't been to like schooling or like been able to like develop critical thinking or you know just immunity to data just like any data isn't real. Yeah. It's like when you think about the guys who works construction with my dad or the guys who are here in my hometown. These things? Very, appealing to them because they explain a world that they live in but never really thought about because they were too busy hunting or trying to get pussy. or or hunting pussy as it were. Yeah I probably should have done that you know I I how do they become? Internet savvy nor. I think what you're saying is is interesting like like they're they're. The desire to understand the world that you live in is one that everybody has and the Internet has brought to the home. To your home everyone of everyone the my brother who lives in a van. Internet the ability to have an unlimited hours of. Of. Of Education about how the world works the problem with the Internet is that when it's not vetted through some some sort of system, there's no possible way of being able to differentiate the true from the false, not that it's easy in a university setting but at least there's some sort of criteria like the the the academic standards of the university would at least say like, okay, this might be biased but at least it's been through some system youtube there is no. It's just. At this. This argument would say that there is no intellectuals and Cunanan. I would say that is almost definitely true. There's no leader. There is no leader in Cunanan. No I. Don't believe. So there are there are I mean figures. I think people are educated but they are the ones who are just trolling and thinking this is hilarious. and then you're their religion point is great because you only if you have. A million people thinking about something and everybody only believes in ten percent of it. Then everyone believes in part of it, and then it starts becoming a fake. You know one hundred percent and what you were saying Tasha about intellectuals at isn't to say that everybody in Cunanan is stupid. It's just that to be an intellectual means that you have that you on some level have studied and acquired. Like, you were saying critical thinking reason scientific method fact checking. Site your sources. There was like an elite strain I don't. Like that Dank Cunanan that. I don't know we. Have we gone down a rabbit hole shall we take a call? Let's take a call unless guy unless you have some parting thoughts. On. All right. Let's take a call. The first person to call is tyler in Vancouver. Hello Tyler Tyler. Tyler Tyler. Tyler. How do you feel about Cuban on? About what? Great. Great Answer. It's Moshe, cashier and Tasha. Joined with our friend Guy Branam. Hi How are you guys both tyler? How are you? I'm doing well thank you. Good Vancouver. It's all right. It's all right We're just kind of going through a couple more additional shutdowns right now. Like, what happened over there doing restaurants now or something or reclosing? We've we just decided to close nightclubs because that's kind of been the biggest upswing in cases. So and that's okay for with me. Yeah. Clubs could you? Imagine going to a nightclub right now. How do you? Club. I couldn't tell you that it's not something I'm into doing right now. However, we have our less cases daily that you guys do. International skirmish. trucking. You. Know Tyler Guy Guy knows more about the history of of Canada than I would actually I bet than you I was GONNA say maybe more than me. Well. Type Guy what. I, WanNa know what are what are your? What are your top favorite things about Canada guy? They're obsessed with this guy with cancer who ran across the country and he's like their national hero and he didn't even finish running across the country because the cancer beacon and they just love him. So hard I'm. Out. To Terry Fox. What speaking of you guys do it your way we our way. We also had a guy that ran across the country and he made it. His name was forrest. Gump. so What's going on? How can we help you? well, first of all, I just wanted to say thanks for having me on such a huge kind of the podcast. Thank you I took my mom just recently decided to tell my brothers and is that we have a sister her. Sister we didn't know about And very, it was a very dramatic kind of family blow up and I'm Kinda just. Trying to find out what I should do it to like confirm this my sister is, is that three zero my mom in the top. I'm just a little back story My parents have been divorced for Awhile. Now is a very long come out. They can't even be in the same room as each other. back in the day when we were kids, my parents would would get back together. Back together a lot they had, they were dating people and the Times that they were would happen. We had met a few their love interests if you say if you will and So this woman that my mom, my dad cheated on her wet. To have this baby is a woman that we are aware of and have met back in the day. So that kind of you know she didn't just make up a random girl or anything. and so she she'd. This girl is in her twenties now and you know we're all grown up his Laos and. her her proof. A couple of photos This girl's facebook and like look how she looks like Your Dad Look how much we're figured that and you know she she's really pretty. So yeah, she could look like. But I think your dad was really beautiful. Well. Yeah I would say. They're beautiful girl. Okay go ahead. Go ahead. Let me not mock your family narrative. No worries I was actually. They fucked around I was trying to. Sort of be funnier and say that I'm not one but it's okay we can give it to them. hob Tyler we got. Thanks. Thanks. So yeah, we're just kind of like. This isn't enough proof. How could you bring this up as proof and what if we ruined this girl's life? Who thinks she has the different from other? Yeah we're kind of. Re so like I looked girl up on facebook and and you know I know really love to do I. Don't WanNa like both my brothers are like it's not true there's no way might that he doesn't really Doesn't like to talk about, but he did deny it to one of my brothers. He did not get a fair or he denied it. That was his daughter. He denied it was his daughter dot how yeah. How you? Deny the fair because we met the woman back we were kids. But it's kind of like, no. Duh. Is it a no DA sounds like a jealous mom doesn't sound guy what do you think I think? Tyler's mom sounds like a master of drama and I really respect her. Like his primary reason for reaching out to this girl should be stuck with his mom but like tangles delicious tidbits in front of her and then not them. That's nice. Bring the. Bring the it's actually literally the quintessence of the advice save the drama for your Mama. That's what I. I was GONNA say you're bang on with the drama stop and I try to limit the other drama in my life because they you know my mom brings a lot of it. If. It were me I would stay out of it just don't contact this person she contacts you be like really open a nice about it when no he tyler well, let me ask you this. If you what if you knew for sure it was your sister. How would that change? I would absolutely not think twice about ruining. Family. Life. I would want my sister. Oh, I see you would. If it was your sister, you'd be willing to. To face the blowback of blowing this person's family narrative of in order to have a relationship with her. At. God. because. You'RE I. I grew I grew up with two brothers. Then you know what? I Fi- denied a sister I would be rather upset about it. You know I would want it stir see. You would. You would rather have a new sister in your twenties then be on your mom's side. What do you mean mom? So well, that is my mom I mean. Let's be fair. His mom sounds like a lot. That's true. Maybe. I just need some new female positively of my life and she she just looks like a lot of fun. I mean I just imagine like playing barbies with her when I was little and like being denied that. Horrible Tyler I. Think I've got it. Actually this is like the plot to Aram calm but without the ROM because that'll be weird because that's your sister and for other reasons as well. But. But it sounds like what you should probably do is contact her don't tell her that you're You're her brother possibly. Forged, a relationship with her become friends with our hang out with their play barbies with her and then get close enough that you get to that relationship where you're like stroking her hair you know, and then one night she's like Oh Tyler, you're the best you're the best to bridget or whatever, and then she's drifting off to sleep and you pluck a single hair from her head put in. Your pocket, take it to a DNA test and find out if Caesar sister and then at the end of the movie, the end of the movie is I I'm your brother and she's like I can't believe you kept from me and you lied to me and you say, but I love you and then she says I love you too and then you guys hug in this in this movie. Actor I chased or through the airport. or I go like full. Dicko and just like you know, pick up a a tissue that she dropped on the ground, right? Is that weird there that's creepy or yeah because he didn't. That's just police work. I. Am I correct thing. You're a homosexual man. Yes All right. So you're not familiar with these APP let's say that there when they grinder and or a hinge for finding members of your secret family, you one hundred percent use that. Twenty three and me is essentially just. Four super. Pam. What you mean to do without even getting up are up in her schick Eugene to twenty three and me, and then if bridget but caller bridget like Sh- thinks that you might have a secret family she's going to twenty three and me too, and then you're GonNa have somebody I love extra Kobe or half sister and you're going to be like Bingo and then you guys can start the relationship I you know that that takes the pressure off of to stock her or do police work but I do think the other thing to consider is that like who does she think her dad is and does that Dad thinks he is her dad could. Also something I would be worried about right. Well, yeah I I did some digging there too and yeah, it appears that. I mean I don't know what he thinks but it looks that she thinks that her dad oh so it would really blow up her life to find this information out by the way guy. I. Love The you had to. in order for for Tyler to be able to wrap his mind around the concept of twenty three and me, you had to translate it into homosexual APPs. First. Are. You As you may know there are APPs for gay men. Yes I'm aware. Okay. There are other apps that are not exclusively for gaming really. They say that they found a relative for me Oh really. So I actually just did twenty three and me. Wait. What were you gonNA say Guy Oh I mean, the thing is tyler is Canadian and doing twenty three and me from a Canadian is finding out that you are ninety eight percent Scottish. Two Percent Irish. Like are. Okay. Whiter than I thought I was going to be but. twenty-three me Tyler. So what is what happened? Would you learn role I? Mean if if she if she hasn't done it, then it really isn't going to tell me anything or even if she has done it, it would not say she's not your. Way Oh what if you sat what if you said to her would if you facebook messenger and say I think I might be a long lost cousin I'm adopted and I'm trying to get to the bottom of my family roots are you on twenty? This won't work. Okay Tyler. Whatever I reach out to her mom because her mom the only one who knows the truth And that and then like. Right 'cause then I don't have to blow up this girl's life and you know, maybe her mom be willing to. Well. I. Guess. She has the right to deny it if it were true but. The moms economy the only one with the actual information and she knows she would know who I am. You know what I dislike about you tyler I'll tell you it's the you have the audacity to call our podcast. Say you're a fan and then give us at the end of the call the. Best advice those the one that was dangling in front of our faces. We missed completely and you knew the whole time you knew the whole time. I could just sense the conversation coming to an end and I wasn't done yet. But I have a question I. If I had a sister that was my sister I would not I would wanna meet her. Because like we don't have like shared memories, isn't that the point of having a brother or sister is like, yeah, we have a common enemy or common. Common growing up you know. The concept of one in touch with the FEM. But we can talk you mentoring three identical three hundred strangers. Yeah. Yeah. It's really good. It would be guy who like we're identical triplet who likes really found each other and understood themselves after they met each other and then one of them. And I think we should now take on which of Tyler. Tyler. Don't do it. Wait. This is. This is. This is really interesting though. Natasha, you're basically saying the U you reduce truly don't believe in the idea that there's something about family that is inherently valuable relationship. Wise. Other than shared experiences like you don't really believe in their blood is the same. Yeah. You don't really believe in any way that like family because there were relative is. In. Any nothing more than a friend or an acquaintance or a stranger nothing but tyler you do. Well I. Yeah. I would say I think blood is thicker than water and in some ways. Well I think you're onto something tyler, you contact the mom. Let's say he wants to see sister if it's a sister, you contact the mom you say this may be a painful memory but I'm contacting you only because I really would be interested in a relationship with my sister if this is my sister. So as awkward in this is. Did is, do you think are related to this person? How bad do you think it would be if I contacted them and started a dialogue on that way, she could then also say she surprise you and say, yes, it's your sister. But if you were to contact her, it could absolutely ruin her life and she would never from it and you wouldn't WanNa treat your sister like that. Would you I mean or barbies worth now now? They were but not anymore. All right yeah that's true. I also think you need to ask yourself how much more drama do you want your life because maybe that whole could be filled by just like you know like I said a real live. Woman. Mother of this girl is going to deny it to tyler and then the minute she got off the phone and for purposes that the impression Kylie's name Diane immediately got to say. That bitch. Tying. Up Again. She's the reason she's the reason Bruce I'm going to Call Your Dad Bruce. She's the reason Bruce came to me in the first place. Around all that drama mice step mom and she and my mom used to be best friends and my dad left my mom four Diane and it was terrible. They hated each other our whole childhood. Wonder why you're to have such a strong relationship family. It's like you know real friends are real connection. I don't think just because someone has the same DNA as you. that. It makes any difference we've given you a two. PRONG attack. Tyler. It's one is I. Think maybe you're going to drop the pretend to be her best friend never let on why you're contacting. But twenty, nine me to see if she's there and contact the mom in a very respectful way and see what happens and then we'll you get back in touch with us if anything develops. Absolutely hold on guy do you have any parting advice? No I like MOESHA's plan. Okay. Good. You have a plan tyler let us know what happens and God bless Canada. Thanks good to all of you guys. Thanks you too. Take. Care bye-bye. Thanks. I. Well. I thought maybe there was a way that he could get like you know more female entertainers life will. Be needs to be needs a best friend but. I think you're missing the idea of having a sister when you've always wanted a sister. There's something. Baby it's a fan a fairytale or fantasy, but something of beautiful about that or something like he doesn't want a a buddy. He wants someone that he's like this is family and she's a woman and I can relate to her in a different way than ever related to my brothers. So you think if you adopted a child, you wouldn't love it as much. That is definitely what I'm saying. Yeah. The thing is I like to try to refute reputation of biological determinative I think I come down a whole lot closer to her and I think most like probably the fact that do both of your parents have. Genetic hearing lots within their families. Yes. I mean. That, probably, we do influence my understanding of Shit like being related. Very. Way because it's so funny. Yeah, like people fucking inherit shit that impressed. Tax Hearing Law. By the way I am I'm more on your side. You're both of your sides then I'm letting on I just I, understand. Why people think that my mom is constantly trying to like. Get me to go meet fifth cousins in that are live in the southern California area. I'm like, why? What what does that have to do? I'm more on your side, but I just I understand like. Feeling like you didn't get a thing in your family that could have been meaningful and wanting their thing. I mean, yeah I'd like to have been on a yacht in every country. I don't know it just feels. Natasha like. You like you know how close I band with like heather, McDonald and carrying Gareth, and like it's me forever to realize that I was just trying to have a relationship with my sister through these other Brunette women who were five years old. I. A much better way I this tyler that. Find a lady. WHO's at the right age. Make. Her your non creepy sister totally to two of the great podcast of our time to the. Coupe and my favorite murder. Hamish do you my breath stag? No I mean, will you usually have a pretty heavy Paul of Nicorette around here? Well, that's not what we're here to cinnamon this fruit flavor. There's a lot of difference we're not doing an ad for Nicorette although I definitely could what we're here to do an ad read for is Bruce. Okay that toothbrush is the best toothbrush I've ever had not only is it a great electric toothbrush which my dentist who I adore told me you have to use electric toothbrush. it also looks good looking and. Ugly and I had this big court and and this one also you you never need to charge it. Yeah. I have had this for like six weeks we have enough to charge it. I mean look I will tell you this offline. Natasha. Has Come up to me with her new Bruce, which is a little pink one. It's very, very nice organs. Very Natasha. She's she I swear to you guys. She's like I love this toothbrush the best one I've ever owned and I agree I got a black one. It's Manley me brushing your teeth can be a chore but Bruce's Awesome and it probably works so well because it cleans your teeth at thirty, one, thousand movements a minute manual toothbrushes top three, hundred brushing your teeth is a chore but Bruising Is Fun and a hundred times as effective to boot. German. Jokes happening here. But what we can tell you is we love the brooch genuinely use it every night and my teeth definitely feel cleaner. They've delivered sonic wave technology without the expensive big MARKUPS big electric toothbrush tax on so. Off. Your Bruce when you use Promo Code Honeymoon AT BRUCE DOT COM, that's B. R. U. U. S. H. Dot Com Promo Code Honeymoon for a fifteen percent off with a ninety day risk free trial and a two year warranty be are you US dot com Promo Code Honeymoon really use it. We love it. Hey tosh. Hamish. I don't want to ever go to grocery store again. either. Well, that's why thrive market is bringing the grocery store to you healthy food snacks and body care products. This is the thing you you you you. Get your groceries online but they're always out of all the healthy stuff will thrive is just all healthy stuff not just groceries they've got like we said body care products. There's all kinds of stuff that fit your lifestyle. It's an online membership based market on a mission to make healthy living easy and affordable for everyone. Thrive market has the best selection of high-quality healthy and sustainable products online by thousands of wholesome food home and beauty products curated just for members you can find everything you need organic and essential groceries, clean beauty, safe supplements, and nontoxic. Plus ethical meet sustainable seafood, clean wine and more and their products are ethically sourced and they you can shop by Diet. So if you're Kito Vegan. If you'RE PALEO GLUTEN FREE NON GMO fairtrade BPA free all this kind of stuff you don't have to go to a store. There's a store waiting for you online. It's got everything you need with all the healthy and smart products that you have been waiting for. It's good for you. It's good for the planet borders of forty nine dollars. Or more our ship for free and delivered with carbon neutral shipping from their zero waste warehouse. So if you go to thrive market dot com slash honeymoon the join today you can get a free gift of your choosing up to twenty four dollars in value. So that's thrive market T. H.. R. I V. E.. MARKET DOT com slash honeymoon to start your risk free membership get in there get the stuff that you need and get a free gift today five market dot com slash honeyman. Guy Would you like to? What do you think? Let's secrets maybe get here a few secrets and he can just comment on we have a secret hotline where our listeners call in and they leave their deep dark secrets and we just listened to them, and then we riff on the few. Wonderful. Our producer looks stressed. Did you see a mouse. that. Why did you bring that up? Laura Laura Laura Laura there's amount of in the house. No we're not trying to get. There's a mouse in the house. Guy And I saw last night while we were recording didn't end the very beginning. I didn't tell Natasha. My and now our producer to stopped stopped us down so that she could let the the the host of the podcast. No, the her greatest fear has come. True. Would would shoot allow a cat in the house. o- cat I was like, why don't these fucking dogs go after the mouse because. I'm allergic. You're allergic can get who get a hairless one. A. Hairless. Wanted hairless cat. Those things those things are disgusting. Guy You all. Open minded man in every aspect of your life you. Can we focus for a second? No, we can't. What are we going to do about this mouse I have this peppermint spray should I spray it behind the couch? And let's keep podcasting. Actually. All this is staying in the podcast. Do you have any tips like? Is there anything give any tips for rodent disruption guy you're from Yuba city? My only chipper road destruction owning like a large band feral cats that live in your backyard in particular. Is that literally the situation at your? House? Is a hundred percent situation that my house love that. So mice will get within the cats just what do they do they eat it and then spit out the carcass. Yes My still like Nathan Rats don't make it into there's like an orchard. So if we didn't have a large band feral cats. When we have it the house is just full of wrapping grounds world. But then if you have a large population of cats, there are no rap inside because they've all been eaten. Away. Maybe, I don't like the country. Hotel on the countryside. To the secrets with guy, and then we'll deal with the mouth is a mouse in here is the other option okay. We're GONNA play some secrets Guy I wish this was live. Bald cat you just seem so much like a man that would like a bald cattail ugly hunter they are ugly but that's beautiful about them. I realize I'm followed myself but I think I think other things. That is that's really all. That that's always something that is like, okay, that's that's fine. You know but it's not like that can't be it. You gotta gotTa bring more. Okay. Guy. Here's some secrets as we deal with Natasha's terror. Oh. My God I hope I don't see it. It's really cute. I saw it last night. It's actually really cute. We have A, we have a person coming tomorrow. Hannah Tasha on here just to me. So online tutor and one of the kids I was tutoring Had An earthquake happened. And I gave her the advice to run outside right away because I panicked and I don't know what to do during earthquake. And that is not the advice at all And when she hop back on and told me I felt kind of bad. But my first thought was, we wouldn't have lost that much because she was. By His secret is just like a bad thought cigarette like I'm a bad guy I guess. You know I think. That's very good advice. It's not if you're inside stay inside if you're outside stay outside, that's the classic I see that you didn't go to public schools in the bay area guy. Your indoor stay indoors or outdoors stay outdoors. That's what they say do when I I was in. Oakland obviously for the Loma Prieta ninety four earthquake. Four Ninety two anyway whatever. My Grandmother. Natasha, you have to just focus for the guy if you could see Natasha's face, she is not here. Is definitely thinking only about mice. I. Can. Do you want to do you need your story? L. podcast. Is, not. On Zoom. Well, it's actually on the three camera shoot here. Anyway I lived my grandma I was with my grandma at her house and I lived she lived in an apartment building that was like on stilts kind of so the parking was underneath the apartment building and And and as the building was shaking my grandma grabbed her car keys and ran downstairs to the. What is happening? Are you. Kidding me. Dr. Whose eyes were darting. Our producer. Laura. Are I. Don't know what we're. GonNa do. Story Yeah it'll be a pretty good environment for storytelling. Like, an episode of the moth or the every once in a while the woman screams oh God. Let. Me Just keep telling just do another. Story it's too late. Let's do another secret going to stand up I. WanNa say something. That I think Natasha should buy a new like fur coat and then to insist everyone that you got to a Chinchilla infestation like I still Investors. Are. You guys set out some trap and that's where the coke came from. Way. Way that Natasha brief peak periods of having an infestation. Now, to be honest, I have a question what Natasha Has. Some advice for me because I want to be more tough but I really cannot deal with the thought of a mouse. Okay. Got Any thoughts an. Everyday Nicer fucking adorable cyeru grew my. fucking door vote rats are terrible. So Mice are not the worst. You play take year old sows your home. You need to kill. GOING, we have some coming tomorrow. I saw the little thing yesterday was the cutest thing it had on a little hat and a knapsack and just come. From the Ukraine it's just came from the Ukraine. Name was a little five. have. You heard the story about about five. And American tale. Apparently Guy, you'll like this story apparently. The guy you know. Mouse Ma. The Holocaust tale of that guy went into pitch mouse to like Disney or whoever it was that made American tale and they were like I'm sorry this is just too dark. We can't do Holocaust story about a mouse and and like. Nine months later American tale came out from the same company, which is basically the same thing, but it's surely or. Not the. Holocaust. But like a little bit a little bit jazzed up the. Question about vice yeah. Do you guys think it's like roaches where if you see one, there's like two hundred no. Guy He's smarter than you, honey. He's smart enough to know that even if the answer was, yes, he should say right now. Guy Guide. You want to hear another secret answer he said No. No. Okay Okay, one more secret, and then I think we probably have to wrap this up Natasha's having a nervous breakdown. All right. Let's play one more secret for guy. SECRET TO COVA secret So there's a piano in my house with. I live with four people. And I've been putting the bow system down there with just like amazing like piano riffs and everything on it. And everybody some great pianists now. And I find it really funny but it's just GonNa be really shitty went on. I have to actually try to play the piano in front of say, that's my secret by. This guy's pretending to be a good pianist. I. Think he should just learn the G. Cord or something. Guy, what do you think? I have been dueling leaks French very hard during quarantine and I think everyone's obligation to learn a skill like all of us need to come out of this was something you guys are raising your daughter I don't know if he's their name on. Thank you but Like that that's enough work for you guys to do. But this guy like Natasha saying he can fucking learn to play chopsticks or something. I. Have a question. Have you have you learned any skill guy this quarantine? He just said he learned French on you really I mean you really clearly learned it well, maybe there was something else you got well. I've been I've been doing it very hard but then finally eventually I got a shooter online and so now every Tuesday morning, would you like to know how the tutor I found the hottest person who was available at the time that I needed and his name is John and he used to play professional soccer and I love them. Nothing nothing on earth sounds hotter than fucking your French tutor I mean that also. So the fact that we can learn French via zoom that sounds awesome to drive to like Pasadena City College or some. Do with Jean Pierre whatever his name is. Yes Every morning at nine and she spent most of it making me say the sound you emit telling me that I'm doing it wrong Really. Valuable. Learn. Yeah. Well. Guy I think maybe we should wrap this up even though I would love to keep talking Natasha is standing on the couch right now. and is very, very upset I. Just don't know like I. Just don't want it to like across me they don't. Approach because they're scared of you because you're like imagine. So dumb that they don't know they don't want on your feet. I. Think. Well, let's. Let's go after the podcast wraps up. Let's go find him and I'll show them to you and dangle them in front of your. and. You can eat him like Farley Mowatt. Excite. Guy Canada's Canada's greatest major writer. Let's get tyler back on the phone. Guy, we miss you terribly and we can't wait to see you whenever people see each other again. I missed you guys a lot is all over in time for your guys who Chanaka Party That All right. Thank you for joining us take care. Okay. Bye Bye. Well Tosh. It's been a rough of a rough one. But we gotTA podcast done. We talked to a friend we love and we will have someone come here tomorrow and humanely catch this mouse and bring it to a forest near by. An even though you are standing on the couch. In truly paralyzed by terror. Nonetheless. I. Love You. I love you too.

Tyler Guy Guy Natasha Oh Tyler the Times tyler Guy Branam Cunanan Tyler Tyler facebook Bruce writer Ship Station California Yuba city Canada Nicorette China Amazon
Juan Corona aka The Machete Killer

Happy Hour Gets Weird

36:41 min | 8 months ago

Juan Corona aka The Machete Killer

"Are you that Weirdo? Who always brings up a true crime case during Happy Hour? We'll good. This is a podcast for you. Welcome to happy. Hour gets weird. Hello friend hi IT'S BEEN. I feel like it's been such a long time and it's only two days later. I know recording pushback a couple days because life happens. Life happens so hi there welcome. I'm Cathy and I'm tiffany. See It's been two days and we forgot Arif everything. We forgot our names. We've forgotten how to do this. Where am I what podcasts? This is happy hour gets weird and we are a a weekly podcast and we talk about weird topics and drink drinks while we do it. Yeah this week. We ARE DRINKING BLOOD. Orange Margaritas because it's national Margarita. Day on Saturday we wanted to be festive and it citrus season in California and who doesn't love the color of a blood orange. She's drinks are beautiful most importantly delicious and they get the job done as far as buzz goes yes. They're great yes. Make these you'll impress any person that comes over to your house. Most definitely and we will have our recipe and beautiful drink picture on our instagram. Happy hour gets weird pod. Yup also twitter. Please find us on twitter and instagram. We're very new to twitter. So we're still trying to figure all the stuff out tweets tweeting going on the. Rt's that good. Yeah so we'll have a picture and the recipe on our social media and This week we're getting into a true crime case. Yes we are. As a matter of fact. We're actually covering our very first heavy hitter. If you will were doing serial killer this week. Yes and it's a local case. Yeah we decided to start our Ciro. Our heavy hitter episode or serial killer APP Code with a local Fr- for US local. Which is the Uber Center area in Northern California? Yes So do you draw. Should you address? Let's just jump right in. We will get right to it this week. First and foremost I'm going to cite my sources we use the deviation diaries blog which is a local blog that we both really appreciate. We chose this as a main source because she is local and she devoted a lot of time in research to the case that we're doing today She did a great job and paid special attention to the victims. Yeah so I just WanNa give them a shout out. Please check them out. I also read an article from Appeal Democrat called Juan Corona crime of the century and an article from Thought Co Dot Com called Juan Corona. The machete murderer also. I looked at her. Radford University website page and I always kind of double check. Time-line information from wikipedia. So those are my sources. Okay on this episode. We're covering a lesser known case. Unless you were local to this area. You probably haven't heard of it. The case was covered pretty heavily at the time but it is at one that is really talked about today on. True crime shows or podcasts. For that matter. Have you seen it covered anywhere? No me neither. I wanted to cover this story. Not In order to bring attention to the murderer but to remember that every type of victim matters yes today we are covering the serial killer one corona also known as the machete killer really. I didn't know he was known as the machete killer. But like I said it's not really covered so machete killer. I mean as far as serial killer nicknames. Go It's a pretty good one. It has a pretty good. Was it dubbed by the media or by? Did he give himself a nickname? No he didn't give himself unlike named Dick God okay so Rossetti killer off his face okay. Let's get into okay. One Corona was born in Mexico on February seventh. Nineteen thirty two. He had nine siblings and three older half siblings on his father's side. Unfortunately there isn't much information known about crony earlier's we even reached out to the deviation. Diaries blog thinking maybe she had picked up on something that we didn't find in our research but I don't really think there's much other than he had a typical childhood and Mexico for the time. Yeah ANA is. She is an advocate for the victims. And she's a met. Some of the remaining family members of the of one kerns victims and people that knew him knew the family and she said that by all accounts. It was a pretty average normal family normal childhood. They were all pretty nice. Yeah his older half brother. Nabi Dodd migrated to California in nineteen forty four. There were many jobs open during world. War Two that brought in immigrants from Mexico in Nineteen fifty at age sixteen one Kiruna. Faldo's followed his brother to California illegally. He worked on farms around the Sacramento Valley area and attended night school to improve his English. By real go getter. He was busy. I mean sixteen. He was working going to school. By nineteen fifty three corona had moved to Yuba City on December twenty fourth nineteen fifty five a levee along the feather river broke. Yuba city endured devastating flooding. Ninety percent of the town and surrounding farmland and ranches were flooded. Thirty eight people died. Many of those people were undocumented. Workers trying to fix the levy damage. Oh no hundreds of people had to be rescued. Corona was traumatized this event and had a complete mental breakdown. This was a really pivotal point in his life. This whole incident so he was twenty three years old and it was a pivotal point in his life. I'm assuming he had to see quite a bit of fled victims did he. Was He part of the cleanup crew? You know I don't believe he was it. Didn't it didn't say that. He was but corona. Like I said was really traumatized by this. And according to some sources he had always had a fear of water oh okay and then he ended up moving somewhere that is literally surrounded by waters and Levy. Yes we're floods are known to happen after. The flood corona began to have vivid hallucinations and believed that he was seeing the ghosts of former residents so he believed that the he thought that the surviving Yuba city residents were ghosts. Weird okay so sounds like a psychotic break of some sort yes. He was elucidating seeing ghosts. And then when an actual living person we talked to him it would freak him out he he like. I said he had a total breakdown. Whoa okay in January of Nineteen fifty-six so very shortly after the flood navy dod had corona committed to a psychiatric hospital in Auburn. Wow I didn't know that okay. And he was really unhinged. They'RE IN AUBURN. Corona was diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic. Right well this is fifty six. So was he paranoid schizophrenic. Or was that the catch all for any sort of mental illness right so I mean but look. I think schizophrenia does sat on early twenties yet and he has a twenty page. Or if you do have schizophrenia. A usually sets in at at at the age that he was okay. So this might have actually been in accurate diagnosis right. Okay Hallucinations Audio and visual. Assuming yes okay all right interesting. Yeah as his treatment. Kerner received electric shock treatments which was typical of the time as well. That's not good for anybody. No especially not twenty three treatments over a three-month period after the twenty three electric shock treatments. The hospital found him cured and deported him back to Mexico. Oh my Lanta okay. I'm well yeah. It's pretty intense. Yeah later that year one kronor returned to California legally in nineteen fifty nine. He married a woman named Gloria Marino and they had four daughters. Krona was considered a hard worker. Although he was known to have rage issues right well twenty-three electric shock treatments. I'm not even sure if I wouldn't have to use. That's yeah and that's also I guess a little bit of foreshadowing right. Bill saw something there in one thousand nine hundred sixty two. He was licensed as a labor contractor and hired workers for local fruit ranches in early. Nineteen seventy corona had another mental break which resulted in him briefly. Being hospitalized again all right so let me just break that down so basically the farmers and ranchers would come to Juan Corona and say. Hey I need X. amount of workers for my farm. Can you round up fifteen men that could work the orchards dot? Yes what he did for job. Yes okay and then he had another mental breakdown. Yes in early. Nineteen seventy okay. A couple of months later after coronas mental break. A young man named Jose. Raya was attacked in the restroom of not novedades cafe now known as the Silver Dollar Saloon. Yeah and he was. There was a man he was there and he was attacked in the restroom. Yes he was attacked with a machete and nearly scalped. Oh Sh eight rare didn't see his attacker but sued. Avi Dodd and won the case for two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. I would assume him. Navidad sold all of his property and fled to Mexico to avoid paying restitution to so real and heart. Yeah that's fucked up on May Nineteenth Nineteen seventy-one a farmer named Goro. Kagi hero found a large fresh hole in his Peach Orchard. Fresh holes never a good sign. You find fresh whole you. Just call the police. Nine one one. I have a fresh whole. It's not a good sign to be inspected. None of the employees that Kagi hero questioned knew what the purpose of the whole us. Wait so it was just to clarify so I can have a picture in my mind now. Was it like a whole or was it a covered freshly covered up hole? I'm getting there. Oh okay later that night. Kogi hero return to the site to find that the whole was now filled So empty will morning filled hole by night. He called the sheriff. The Sutter County sheriff. At the time was Roy Whitaker. He was thirty one years old. And the youngest sheriff in the state at the time just going to say. That's a very young sheriff. Yeah a body was found in the whole as you typically. Yes find in holes. No surprise there. The victim's shirt was lifted and his penis was exposed. Wait what yeah. His shirt was like the there was like it was raised up above his torso. Yes okay the body was later identified as a transient laborer named Kenneth. Whitaker bizarre that he shared the same last name with a share of. Yeah there was no relation and I had a double check this because I thought that there was a Typo okay because they both have the same last name and then later when I was reading a separate article. They commented on a coincidence. It's very strange. A few days later a body was discovered on the nearby Sullivan ranch. Okay pretty popular ranch in this area. Another random hole was found and having heard the news about the body on Keg Heroes Property. They immediately called law enforcement. The bodies quickly added up. The victims were hacked beaten and usually nude from the waist down interesting twist one had been shot and one had been stabbed with a smaller knife. The men had been sodomized and murdered. The victims were considered drifters some recalled seeing a few of the victims sleeping on park benches near Novedades cafe. Okay some were farm workers but usually only had jobs for small periods of time. I'm sure because of these victims. Life circumstances their murderer consider them easy prey right just like sex workers exactly a runaways or anybody. Who's people who live on the fringes? Yes and anybody without any sort of attachment. They would notice them missing right immediately. Right along with the mutilated bodies. Police found several receipts signed by one corona. Like don't fucking through your garbage away. Maybe he was autographing fucking asshole so ridiculous is like just in case you wanted to so stupid just in case you had any questions about who committed this murder. Let me sign my phone number. In case we on May Twenty six and nineteen seventy-one law enforcement armed with a search warrant searched the home of corona some of the evidence found at their corona residents included a blood-stained club a pistol digging material grocery receipts that matched those found on the bodies and Eighteen Inch Machete and a ledger with thirty four males names and dates at this time. The Body Count was twelve two days later it was twenty. Oh no the body count rose to twenty five and the search for Coronas. Victims was officially called off. The orchards would need to be heavily. Watered and detectives wouldn't it be able to access them to properly search for much longer? Let's Kinda fucked up. One Corona had killed twenty five men and at the time was America's most prolific serial killer. And this is nine hundred seventy seven nope seventy two seventy two. Oh Shit I was way ahead it. Yeah the following year Dean. Choral beat him. Piranhas first trial was September of Nineteen. Seventy two in Fairfield. The defense was granted. A change of venue. Okay Okay I was just GONNA ask. Why was in Fairfield Yeah that makes sense. Yeah the first trial was for the lack of a better term. A total shit show prosecutors mishandled or lost evidence forensics ran late krona changed defense attorneys late in the game and went with a man named Richard Hawk. Hawk decided to throw out the former attorneys defense of innocence by reason of insanity which seems like a logical defense right. He had been hospitalized twice. He had a record of hospitalization. He was a nice nosed paranoid schizophrenic. He'd had to mental breakdowns that we know of. Yeah document setting precedent for seems like a logical a logical defense but Hawkeye decided to. Here's the thing though. Also I feel like if you would murdering people and your defense was insanity. Would you hide the bodies you wouldn't know between the difference between right and wrong is an insane person? I feel like out the window. Had the bodies I am not saying that corona didn't know what he was doing I believe the one krona knew exactly what he was doing. What I'm saying is is if you were his attorney. It seems like that would be the obvious defense that you would use just poked two thousand holes in his defense then the and I'm like no but then you could say obviously he's insane. He basically autographed the bodies. No fucking person would do that. No not insane stupid. I'm just saying he could've worked right. It seems logical to use it but hawk decided to throw out all of that. Okay he also never even made mention of corona schizophrenia during the trial and called no witnesses really and I will say. Maybe it's because this attorney took on the case in return for the exclusive literary and dramatic rights to Coronas life story that was the payment. The payment was coronas life story. Okay that is a conflict of interest for sure. Doesn't it seem like it? Yeah it's a bizarre. It's weird are you allowed to. Actually I feel like set your case up Walker and his case up for appeal later down the road. Well there's a little foreshadowing of or you a job. Cassie the presiding judge was disappointed in the trial proceedings. He made he made it known the whole time because like I said the whole trial was kind of out of control right. During the trial krona also suffered two consecutive heart attacks which further delayed the trial. This whole thing was insane. Oh yeah it's crazy. Yeah finally on January nineteen seventy-three one corona was found guilty and sentenced to twenty five consecutive life sentences. Okay I also want to note that during this trial. California had abolished the death penalty The nineteen seventies what is now referred to as the Golden Age of serial killers? Probably wasn't the best time to do now. Absolutely not nineteen seventies were the golden age of serial killers. Now we're in a very different time. Where the golden age of mass murderers but shooters mass shooters yeah. It's just ironic. That was the Times ironic that they chose to do that. In nineteen seventy eight corona was granted a retrial as his first attorney was ruled incompetent. So Hawk was determined incompetent. Which yet sounds like he just wanted a book deal and was like ye-ye-yeah Mr Corona whatever. We're going to get through this child but I have the rights to hear Your Life Story. I don't even know how that's I. Loud God leave it to a sleazy lawyer to like have the are being mean to this lawyer. Why he's a lawyer. I don't care but like have it leave it to a lawyer. It's typical lawyer to be like. Oh by the way I'm going to represent you for your life story you're going to be in prison and I'm GonNa make a million bucks on your life story which he clearly fucking didn't because he didn't do shit with this story well yeah He. He was a crap biographer because we have no idea of corona's childhood background so Shit Shit Job on that trial shit job of owning. Somebody's life story. Yeah basically yeah. Corona's new attorney at his second trial called some fifty witnesses and the defense attributed the murders to coronas. Now deceased brother Nabi Dod so so they blamed it on Navy Dot yes who was dead at the time of the second trial. Okay interesting it is interesting and I wouldn't be surprised if Nabi dot had something to do with it just because the first attack did take place at his restaurant if he had to have known who or what that whole situation was about. Well I don't know it depends because you and I both been in the silver dollar multiple times and it just depends on if the layout is the same because right now where the restrooms are. It's like you can see who like the bathrooms are down a hallway and you can see who's going into the restrooms you know you're just kind of depends on what the lay of the restaurant was and if the bathroom was secluded and maybe there was a possibility that nobody saw who it was. But I mean I would notice a man holding machete covered in blood. Coming out of a restroom yes or just notice a machete general. That's a large weapon. It's not a tiny little knife in somebody's pocket. Yeah you're right but maybe you could hide it in your in your coat the machete coat your trenchcoat. Yes maybe just seems suspicious and I wouldn't be surprised if navy dot at least knew about what was going on right. The prosecution's main witness was Mexican consulate. Who had met with corona while he was in jail he claimed corona told him. Yes I did it but I am a sick man and a sick man can't be judged by the same standards as other men. But the Coronas Attorney countered this claiming that Corona had not actually said. Yes I did it but a hypothetical if I did it right. The Prosecution also dismissed Navy Dad's involvement because there was no evidence he was even in the country at the time because remember he had fled to Mexico right after the lawsuit. Yes although he could have come and gone he could have been there for some of it. We just don't really know I mean for all we know he could have planted the receipt on the bodies but he was out of the country for at least some of the crimes okay. The trial took seven months but the outcome was the same corona was found guilty again right because he did it because he did it. Corona served his sentence in Corcoran state. Prison Corona was attacked in prison and blinded. And what I really. Wow that's weird that's intense. Yeah in two thousand sixteen at his last parole hearing. He finally admitted to killing some of the men but claimed it was because they were trespassing. He was Abbot. Why were their penises? L. Yeah he never really admitted to his crimes fully and he also was known to refer to the men as why knows as a way of dismissing the magnitude of his crime riot he just kind of after it while they were y knows who cares. Yeah well we care like fucked up and he never really admitted his true crimes. Although it they were clearly sexually motivated crimes right. Well I think okay so the only thing maybe I do know about the case was I think. Natividad wasn't was he homosexual. Yes Dodd was Natividad Native Dad also known as an Avi Dodd Navidad. Sorry was homosexual. Okay that's what I thought. On on one of the victims there was what they called homosexual literature. I'm assuming it was a magazine probably a Porno Pornographic magazine. Yes found on one of the victims. I'm probably was coronas since he I guess was just bearing his garbage with the bodies. I don't think that if he picked somebody up on the side of the road they would have just had a porno MAG pocket. Here's a theory. What if lured them there with a pornographic magazine? He could have done that. So the prevailing theory based on the evidence was that Corona would dig a hole in advance. Pick his victim sexually assault and then stabbed them to death. He never fully said what happened. I it is frustrating to me that there's so little known about his early life And exactly what happened during the murderers because he never fully admitted to it? But it's a different sort of an attitude with this crime that a lot of serial killers that we see because usually serial killers that we see. We'll talk about their crimes. After they're caught and embellish on their stories even make their stories sound even worse. Pretty much every serial killer that I can think of has done that though claim that they were possessed by a demon like son of Sam or there say that they were cannibals when they really were all there say that they have higher numbers. And they really. Did you know what actually want? Crony sounds a lot like Ted Bundy to me. Ted Bundy really is like we all know that you are disquiet quit stop. Yes the excuses. I mean it sounds like one. Crony used his mental illness as an excuse he didn't tell the full scope of his crimes. Like Ted Bundy did not tell the full scope of his crimes. Hey tried to act like. He didn't do all the horrific things that he did. Yeah and the only reason we know that because of the frenzy work that was done on his victims remains. Yeah and at the time in the seventies the same kind of friends at court couldn't be done and that's probably why we don't know any more details. Yeah so I feel like this. One Corona is just your average piece of Shit serial killer. I WANNA take responsibility. Just like he was objectify his victims and he definitely used his mental illness. He definitely blamed his mental illness for why he did the things that he did. Just because you suffer from a mental illness doesn't mean that you would do these things no absolutely not mental. Illness does not make you a murderer. No and that's basically what he was trying to claim which is total bullshit. Yeah in fucked up. He just didn't WanNa take responsibility. Just did not want to take responsibility and I think it may be that he didn't want to admit that he was attracted him in. I Dunno yes all right. So let's get back to his victims. The twenty five victims of Juan Corona were honored in two separate memorials. One at Saint Isidor Church and one Yuba city high school's football field. A woman named Judy Freeman tried to fundraise for a memorial marker for the fourteen men who were buried together. I'm assuming they were not claimed and Chicago. Funeral supplier heard the story and offered him marker free of cost. Oh that's nice. The community was kind of mixed honestly. Some people were incredibly saddened by it other than the fact that it was a bad mark on the town right because the victims were transient while others were obviously devastated. By the fact that this happened to people who were basically guests of the community If you're interested in learning more about this case please visit the deviation. Diaries the blog that we mentioned at the top of the show. She has a lot of information about this case as well as other crimes in the Yuba Sutter area. Yeah she her. Name's Anna and she actually is a forensic anthropology student at our local college Yeah and she seems like a pretty cool chick. She's great at research and She does cover a lot of other cases and she just is Huzzah thirst for knowledge when it comes to true crime in this case as with any case. I hope he always remember the victims. I these twenty five men and also the nine identified names on one Coronas Ledger so I am going to read the names of the recovered victims of this six week. Murder Spree John Smallwood Sickert bearman Mark Shields. Joke Harry Wu Raymond Mucci Kenneth would occur melford sample Charles Fleming John Luka Warren Kelly Donald Smith William Camp Elbert Riley Paul Allen Clarence Hawking James Howard Edward Cup Albert Hayes. John Jackson Lloyd Wendell and Joseph Mc are those are ages some of them. Some of them have their ages. Yeah Okay so these were not young men Oh Wow these were older men older men. That probably couldn't defend themselves against him because he was younger. Actually that is surprising to me. I thought they were young men. Wow these men were from their forties into the early sixties. Yeah wow that is such an interesting layer to his victimology. Yeah it is interesting yes sad. It is sad yes. We'll post pictures of his ledger. Okay cages yeah and a few other pictures so disturbing and so scary and can you believe that all of these things would go on without somebody noticing. This is a small community. It's chilling while I'm Jay. This sheer amount of people that are needed during a harvest. It is very bizarre that someone wouldn't see. Juan Corona digging holes. Wouldn't see people did mention that. They saw at least a couple of the victims in his truck. So people did see that but they didn't see the violence or the digging or the covering up the crime. I'm assuming that happened at night. Then when the our orchards are empty. Yes I've been to orchard. Bonfires were you. You know that was like are Stella Partying God. Could you imagine that was all we needed to? Could you imagine stumbling upon that you're cater? No fucking traumatizing. Yeah I mean and would I have the peace of mind to recognize a grave freshly dug empty grave at a KEG ORCHARD? Party no probably not I mean I it just so weird. I guess there's you know it's sad it's a sad case and it's it is a little frustrating that we don't have more details on it but I think at the time they felt like they had enough details. Well for me who? I am as a person even though I like. I'm kind of like that. I like the details but then I don't like the details like I want to know the details of person. I do looks at the crime scene photos like and then I'm like. Oh God why did I do that? Why did I fucking do that? But I do it every time like. I'm just kind of person who wants details. I just like to know more about early. Childhood NATO 'cause I'm interested in nature versus nurture kind of thing and we don't have that information. I'm also interested to know his whole entire process. Just because that is the name might reflect on a trauma that he had as a child. Well and the psychology behind exact reason why someone ends up being a serial killer is so fascinating and as we don't know his process and we because we don't we don't know really his background. Yeah we know. He had some mental breakdowns but like people have mental breakdowns. Everyday they don't turn into Sexual Sadist serial killers. Yes and this is at a time when the concept of a serial killer was new When the concept of the psychology of a serial killer was very new. So it's not surprising that we don't have that information because I think that people didn't think they needed it. They caught him. He was the bad guy. They put them away case closed case closed. But if we can't learn from these the broken mind of a serial killer yeah. That's the only thing that we can gain from. These horrible crimes is some sort of knowledge that can help us. Prevent them from happening in the future. Exactly and I think that's why I'm so fascinated with just it's just with the psychology behind zero killer. And what makes them tick and why they do what they do. And they're they're process and you know you know all the different types of serial killers fascinating like you know you have a sexually motivated zero killer. And then you have a what rage. Motiv- motivated serial killer. I mean you just the differences and the reasons why they're different and the reasons why they do what they do in the first place is just so fascinating to me and that that does make this case in very frustrating. Because there's so many unanswered unanswered questions. Which is is frustrating for me. It's frustrating but it's still. It's still an interesting case. There's still a lot there even with all the stuff that we don't know. Oh Man. I just love to read those police reports. So maybe they're online. I mean maybe we should look for them to pretty interesting case that I don't think a lot of people know about I haven't really seen any I haven't either shows or heard any other than deviation diaries. I haven't really read any like dedicated. Blogs or shows Doan Curran victims. Same and I hope that in doing this we just remember that every type of victim matters. Yeah absolutely and not just victims that we see on TV just the white ladies. Yeah everybody all of the victims matter. Yeah absolutely there's so many cases that don't get media coverage Because they aren't you know the the victims of minority in some way or another and you know sometimes media coverage really helps bring out tips and exactly advocates salt. The squeaky wheel gets the grease or. It's like Oh hey wait a minute. I've seen that person or I know that I I know that person or that. That description kind sounds familiar to me or or something like that so All right well that is the R. I zero killer episode. And he was a pretty pretty big deal in the seventies before Dean Coral. I mean he he he wa- It was like a big deal. Yeah and then. D. Was the most prolific serial killer when he was found and his ledger had thirty. Four names on it. Yes so those So if that's accurate he even had more victims than gay. See Right I think Casey had thirty three. Yeah so if his ledger is accurate. Then he was the most prolific serial killer until the eighties right. And if you know Dean. Coral didn't decide to rear his ugly head at the time that he did. Then you know maybe the other nine victims or eleven victims would have been would have been found. I know it has something to do with the Cycle of the Orchard Right. They had to start a heavy water. They couldn't search for for victims any longer. I'm almost wondering if there's somewhere else because I feel like by something would have I agree. I oh my Gosh. We're in the Like you're really mind because I was just thinking. Maybe he switched his burial sites or because they're something would have popped up in the last thirty years. I agree forty years now. Jeez fifty years old my goodness all right while all right. Let's let's end that. Wrap it up. Thank you for tuning in this week. Guys to our heavy hitter definitely not as light hearted as our typical episodes. But we appreciate you listening. Yeah Yeah sometimes. True crime can be a little rough for us to talk about just because we want to be sensitive to the heavy topic obviously hymns and to the victims families and it's somewhat of a sensitive topic so but I do find true crime. It's interesting and we will be doing more. True crime definitely In the futures and both one hundred percent finished our delicious `Blanche Margaritas. They were fantastic. And we're actually out and I'm very upset about it. Oh man we drink on her so good and they were so good so all right with you liked what you heard. Please leave us a review. Subscribe and tell a friend. Yeah and don't forget guys hydrate meditate masturbate cheers cheers to that.

Juan Corona corona California Mexico Nabi Dodd corona murder twitter Richard Hawk attorney US Dean Yuba City Orchard Right Harry Wu Raymond Mucci Kenneth hallucinations Arif Cathy Rt
Comedian Guy Branum Wants To Change the Boys Club of Comedy

It's Been a Minute with Sam Sanders

41:36 min | 2 years ago

Comedian Guy Branum Wants To Change the Boys Club of Comedy

"Support for this podcast and the following message. Come from Tito's, handmade, vodka distilled from corn and naturally gluten free for recipes and more visit them at Tito's, vodka dot com. Eighty proof Tito's handmade vodka fifth generation, inC, distilled and bottled in Austin, Texas. Hey Sam here you are hearing me from the back of my Prius somewhere outside of Phoenix driving back to LA with my dog Zora every year. I take a long leisurely road trip to San Antonio, Texas to spend thanksgiving with my family and every year on that trip. I listened to a lot of podcast, including this podcast. And the thing about all those podcasts is they don't pay for themselves. So I'm here right now in the back of this Toyota to ask you to give in support of public radio to keep this show coming to you each and every week with conversations and make you think with new voices and perspectives with an approach to the news of the week that we hope. Doesn't leave you depressed that is not possible without support from you. So please take a minute right now. Go to donate dot NPR dot org slash Sam support this show by supporting your local public radio station again that link is donate dot NPR dot org slash Sam. All right. Also, just like last year, we have a little friendly competition going on with all the other podcasts or NPR to see who can drive the most donations over this next month or so in the words of riana, I came to win to fight to conquer to thrive. Help us come out on top, donate dot NPR dot org slash Sam, Zora, the doc. Thanks you in advance on Betty does to Zoya once anything. Not a thing. Okay. Thanks show. From NPR. I'm seeing Sanders. It's been a minute today. My guest is comedian and writer guy random, and I talked to him in front of a live audience. I had the privilege of devouring guys. Latest book recently, it's called my life. As a goddess, and it has been just the perfect bit of counter program into these recent new cycles from hell, this book is everything guy is hilarious whip smart insightful and equipped with this encyclopedic. Knowledge of more books in movies in music than any twelve women or men, but guys also more than author he has a law degree, but he's also hosted a game show. He's worked behind the scenes in Hollywood writing for shows like the Mindy product and Billy on the street, but she also seen him in front of the camera as staff homosexual on Chelsea lately, and even as Natalie Portman sassy, gay friend in the movie, no strings attached. Those are just a few of the ways the guy has made me laugh for years. But he also makes me think. His culture riding in political commentary has been featured in slate, the New York Times and New York magazine and guys changing the boys club of comedy through his writing with every essay as a warning to listeners. There's some language in this chat that you might find offensive, but it is integral to guy talking about his experience. We tape the show in October at the KPCC Crawford family form in Pasadena. I'm excited to share it with you. Now, here's guy brenham. Four. Like, I've listened to so many events that took place here finally know what this temple of public broadcasting really looks like look at it. Look at it. It's amazing. How you feeling feeling good? Yes. Los Angeles is not being hot weather that normally is. So I'm only sweating a normal amount for me, extraordinary amounts. I love it. I love it. I am glad that our our styles of matching tonight. So frantically DM the guy on Twitter this morning. And I was like what are you wearing because the last what are you wearing tonight? If you had just said, what are you wearing would've been a different conversation? Yes. Yes. Oh, what are you wearing tonight, an evolving friendship? Yes. Totally totally. All right. So the book I want to give it it's fear. Do it has called my life is a goddess it is part memoir part. How would you describe it? Like, well, the title calls, a memoirs room, popular culture, and one of the things like during the course of of writing it. I realized that I as a gay man like there weren't narratives or stories about people like me, and I didn't necessarily know how to write stories with me at the center of them when you think about yes, we have gay people in media, but they are by and large side sidekicks. And it can be in too many ways easy for me to think of myself as the sidekick, so I really when I talk about issues from my life. Whether it is, you know being fat or loving trivia. I look at the way that sort of culture influenced how I see that. And how I see myself. Now, there's a reason that the the word goddess is in the title, it's because of a story that you liked from Greek mythology. Tell us a story. Okay. It is a story that I tell my friends with with great regularity. When I was like in third grade, I found this library book like had a retelling of the story of of the birth of Apollo and artists the sun and the moon, and it's basically that their mom had been cursed by Hera because she had messed around with Zeus who was married to harra curse that she could find no safe place on the planet in the see on the land. Nowhere could could she find comfort and she was like hot and sweaty one summer day, and she came like a pond, and she's like, no. Meltdown to get some water and the people there were like, hey, where's your husband? And she liked didn't respond because she didn't have a husband, and they started making fun of her for being on with mother, and then they kicked around in the water and made it muddy so that she couldn't get water. And then she walked away so hot so pissed off like angry at the world for everything. And then she remembered that she was a goddess and she turned around, and she turned all of the people into frogs. And so that's for me what the book is about is like. Remorse all of you. But I mean, these things are of a piece with each other. It is sort of my understanding that in a remembering that you are powerful like in any situation. You do have powers you have abilities. There's stuff that you can do to change the game. And it's not gonna fix it all the time. But also, you're not powerless. What I hear you saying is the hero allies in you. I guess so the heroin lies. Yes. I wanna make you read a little bit of the book in which you are describing the story and how it applies to you and your life. It really was poignant for me, and I liked it. So I'm gonna make you read it I highlighted it. And put a star next to it for you. Thank you. I'm not supposed to be a goddess. I'm very fat. I'm bold. Have a fag voice. My family is poor. My parents were uneducated I dressed like a wet three-year-old as all if you can see now, I am not supposed to like myself. I'm certainly not supposed to think that I should matter the world. There's been a lot of time telling me that in the past thirty or so years, I often listened because we all listen the world is mostly full of fine fax good lessons. But some of those facts and lessons were Bill to keep you down. And I got kept down for decades. Then I remembered that I was a goddess I'm always feel like it. But I have powers. I'm an amazing dancer. I'm quite ridiculously smart. I'm strong. I'm funny babies like me, I have very strong research skills. I make passing lane. Good Punjabi okra. I have a law degree. I sparkle on panel shows as you guys can see here. I'm very good at listening when I try it's not amazing. It's not lightning bolts or control of the sea. I can't turn myself into a swan and have my way with whatever man. I like, but it's enough for me. So fun. Fact, I did a lot of the reading of your book on the train going from downtown to Culver city in. I looked transportation in Los Angeles for tation unthinkable. I do it. But I digress. I'm saying on the train I'm reading the book, and I get to this part. And I'm on the train just like guys in the people next looking over. And I was it was great. It was great. Play in the book. You talk a lot about the place. You are from Yuba city outside of Yuba city say it is in. No, wait. What you think it's supposed to be? Yeah. When people think of California, they think of southern California, they think of like surf and bottle blondes and movie stars in that kind of thing. I'm no from there. I'm from northern California. When you think of northern California, you think of lesbian sous chefs and vineyards, and that's not where I'm from either. Like every like everyone here is Californian. So you've all driven up the five. So you've all seen sort of like the dry sad middle of California and pass through that part on the five where literally smells like manure. Yeah. I mean, you know, this is the price we pay for our lovely meals. Okay. California. Like, I'm so proud of California and its agriculture production like, but also it's a terrible place to be you know, that he was it's farm town. But not farm that you think even I mean. Yeah, it's not the like fun upscale like charming like vineyard town in Napa where your friend got married like it's just it's the grapes of wrath eighty years later. So award winning. Yeah. Like this. Terrifying thing about my hometown. Is that like literally all of the white people came from Arkansas or Oklahoma in the thirties? So people still have like young people still have accents one of my younger cousins. Like he was using the word record and yonder in California because he spent too much time with my grandma from Arkansas, it's horrible. I say I say those words your from Texas. It's allow I know we're supposed to talk like newscasters here. You paint these vivid pictures of your parents who the entire book. I was just itching to meet and talk with describe your mom and your dad for us. My mom is an angry older Jewish lady whose family is from Arkansas. So you can imagine the levels of fear and anxiety that go on in that woman like she's always holding her purse as though she may need to flee something. And I got that. But she was also like very intellectually and culturally curious, I think she had like, even though her family were Jews from Arkansas. There was a little bit of a sense of like, hey, we don't need to be as willfully ignorant as the rest of the people around here like pick up a book and she shared stuff with you with me all the time wonderful scene where you talk about how she likes nut. You the graduate? Yeah. She's like walked him with the graduate and was like watch this. You'll learn something. I was like sixteen and she did so much sort of make me somebody who would desperately want to move away from her and break, her heart. And then my dad was like the. My dad was a construction worker who was raised southern Baptist and sort of didn't question the world of like patriarchal rural conservative life, and he didn't understand they and like as time has gone on a better understood you don't necessarily want to be the guy on the construction site. Husan knows a lot about the Oscars. You know, like that's not really something you can brag about to the other cement, Masons. There's that. There's that. But you have this wonderful part of the book where you talk about how with your father. And with that dynamic. You felt like you knew that this man could love you. And almost hate you at the same time. Yeah. I think anyone we have very strong relationships with we have complex relationships with. And it's a little hard for me. I lost my dad like two years ago. And you know, before I started writing the book, and so it was this question of how do I address my dad? In a book that he would have been angry at me for writing. Like, my dad would have been very angry at me for trying to talk about my life in a way that was honest for for me. And so the dedication of the book is to my father, Larry Michael Brennan who would have hated this book. I love that. I got to write this book, but it feels a little bit unfair that my dad wasn't around to be pissed off at me about like not talk to me for year. This should have ruined thanksgiving al-ass. Yeah. Come to my house. Time for a quick break. We'll be right back with comedian and writer guy brenham. You're listening to it's been a minute live at the Crawford family form KPCC in Pasadena. We'll be right back. This message comes from NPR sponsor, Google home hub, you know, when you're cooking dinner, but you're interrupted by the doorbell ringing. That's why there's Google home. It works with your nest. Halo video doorbell to show you who's at the door without actually going to the door. And you can just say, hey, Google be right there, and it will respond to whom ever is at the door. That's help edit glance with Google home home available now at the Google store and leading retailers nest halo required. Whether it's athlete protests, the Muslim travel Bain gun violence school reform or just the music. That's giving you life right now race is this subtext to so much of the American story on coats, which we make that subtext text. You listen to us on NPR one or wherever you get your podcasts. We're back with the very special live edition of it's been a minute from NPR. I'm Sam Sanders at the Crawford family form here at KABC in Pasadena. We're here talking with comedian and writer guy brand on how he went from small town, California to hoped in his own talk show in Hollywood, you write in the book Yuba city doesn't make sense. But neither do I how did you not make sense? Oh, I need it. Oh, I need it. I was Qripoli enormous and a feminine and in this little farm town where I was like constantly. I did not care about anything. That was in the world around me. I didn't want to know how an automobile works. I did not want to understand. How about you called an automobile? No one in Yuba city would call it in Ottoman. Also, it wasn't an automobile. It was a Ford f one fifth. My dad was constantly trying to teach me to fix like I didn't care about dove hunting. I was just desperately trying to figure out like, you know, who Queen Anne was and what her deal was. So. Like people didn't know what to do with me. And I didn't know what to do with myself other than just read, and you read a lot which book, do you still love the most? Did you still think about the most reading as as a kid thousand MRs Bazeley Frank wiler? Absolutely. I've never heard of that. Oh, okay. I'll let myself out. All right. Most of your most of your young adult adventures people are going out. They are going to face a bear or be in the wilderness from the mixed up. Thousands of space Lee Frank Waller is about a sophisticated young lady named Claudia Kincaid from like jersey or Connecticut, and she's mad at her parents for not respecting her enough. So she gets her younger brother to run away with her to the Metropolitan Museum of art, and they live in the metropolitan isolated and they collect coins from the fountain live off of -solutely solve in art mystery. I read that book. Yeah. So of course, it's amazing. I'm really proud of your opinion on it. Like reading that book. I really was just like oh my God. I wanna be that girl. Like, I I want to be sophisticated like her I want to know how New York works. It doesn't work. When did you feel like you were able to start being that girl? Oh, it is a journey that I'm still processing to this day. I it took me a long time. Like, I didn't come out of the closet until I was in law school like I was at Berkeley for four long years at Berkeley at Berkeley. San Francisco is right across the bay. Also, Berkeley, Berkeley San Francisco, and I still was not comfortable with myself. And then I went to law school in Minnesota. Because where do you want to be gay San Francisco, Minneapolis? Actually, Minneapolis is real fun. So that's like me a long time. I think starting stand up was like a really big moment of being able to say like, my perspective matters. Like, I was so busy being quiet. So that I wouldn't like anger old men from Arkansas when I was little the minute. I sort of got out into the world. I just started talking and never shut up. Yeah. But I also feel like being able to like treasure the places and the things that made you while still not being defined by them or constrained by them is like attention that. We're all figuring out. Are you you yourself yet? Probably not you're probably doing like four things that your mom demands of you. I have so many toiletries, and my home that my mom just gives me she is constantly giving me deodorant that she bought on sale that I don't need, and it is in my home. And I have no space for it. That's me not being that girl. I love in the book the way, you talk about being fat while you talk about being gay because it is not just as simple pet surface kind of body, positively everything is great, everyone is great. You talk about feeling conflicted about your identities at points. And I want to go through two parts of the book. And what you do that. When you talk about what it means to sound gay. You've said that you hate your voice in the voice of other game. But you also said in the book we all have to sound fag. So that we can find each other I found youthful. Yeah. And I liked it you express feelings of identity not being afraid to have more than one opinion on it behaving is though the constructions that the world presented to us for most of our lives. Aren't there is just anti intellectual? We can't behave. We were all alive in one thousand nine hundred five or not all of us. Some of us. Let's say we were all alive in two. Thousand five it was the world was still pretty homophobic. Then like half of this country is still thought gay marriage shouldn't exist in thought gay people were probably gross. And you internalize a lot of that. And I know that when I was young I had so much fear around people who were presenting gayness, which is really weird because I was presenting gayness even before I was gay. But I also think that you know, it is beautiful that because we do like have the option of visually passing as as not gay. You know, the ways that we can be audibly gay are like beautiful choices to do something dangerous. So that we can find each other and create culture and hopefully like quality sex. Well, and it's like the voice it is. It is it is portrayed in the culture is a sign of weakness. But actually, it's the fine act of bravery, right? There's also just this way that like straight through. To talk. And like I feel like why did they talk like that? Right. Exactly. But it's also like anytime you say about any group, you're not a member of would move to. There's a reason you just haven't learned about it. Like, you just haven't thought about it. You haven't figured it out. You haven't like giving people the benefit of just imagining what their lives might be like, what is the feedback to your voice from people that see you on TV in here. You in podcast. Did you hear from people about your voice? Well, I mean, the thing is is like I am old. And I've been on TV for a while. So it has changed during that time like when I was first on TV on a regular basis on Chelsea lately. I would always get like two responses in comments, and they were they shouldn't have a gay guy like that on he acts you he sounds to gay not okay, guys. We're like that. Why do they have to get how the gay like that? And then it would be. He's too fat gay guys aren't fat like that. Why do you have the gay guy who's fat? And that is sort of changed as time has gone on. And we have more representation of where people in media, and there is less of a sort of like hunger and need to see someone like yourself, and you're able to see somebody who's queer and isn't exactly like you. But still enjoy them and feel a little represented in a way. Yeah. You know? Speaking about being fat and talking about that in the book. I'm so glad that you did more than just the thing that everyone is supposed to say, which is love your body. Whatever your body is. I get that. But I, but you you gave me more in this discussion in the book, and you talk to really thoughtfully about how even when fat people are on screen. It is a representation in service of skinny people said, quote, our narratives about conquering fatness aren't about saving fat people. It's about letting thin people feel like they're already saved members of the chosen people. Yeah. I just I think that we have a great deal we moralize weights, we moralize weight. So that we have to know that if a person is fat that they are doing something wrong. And they can we can watch them be noble on the biggest loser. Or this is us and be doing everything they can to unfed themselves. But if they are still fat, we know that they haven't done that enough. And you guys who aren't that get to feel like there is something that's kind of good about you. You are doing something a little bit noble by managing to be less fat than. Yeah. Yeah. And that ain't fair. I mean is life fair. I also just think that it was important for me to be able to lake articulate that because the world had sort of like. Sent me. A lot of messages about myself worth in behavior around my fatness. And I like it was important for me to be able to say like, hey, I don't have to let that into like I can push that out of my brain a little bit. I can understand that at the end of the day. There are things in my life that are more important than me being less fat. I don't know what the right best answers for anyone else's bodies are. And I don't know what the right best answer is for my body are. But also, this is the size that I've been my entire life and imagining that there's some magical future where that is not true. And that I should be delaying aspects of my life until that comes true is ridiculous. Thank you for your claps. But I don't think. Oh beyond TV now all have sex. Now. I'll do the things that I want to do now. And if somebody else's bothered by the appearance of me, okay, don't watch or have sex with me. There are other people who will. Mic drop have a great night. Guys. We did it. I saw you on the internet when you wrote this really thoughtful essay about the world of comedy in light of Louis, C K and his dumpster fire trash nece, and you talked about how the culture of comedy sets up people like Louis C K to do Louis C K stuff, and you talked Pacific about this idea of the table in the comedy club. I want you to set that up. Tell us what the table is. And I wanna unpacked essay with you. So at every at every comedy club there there is a table where like. The ranking dude comics sit around, and you know, shoot the crap after the show they stand in the back during the show famously in the opening credits of Lewis show. On FX. He would walk past the comics table at the comedy store. And when we represent that we always represent a bunch of dudes when we straight dudes like when we have our biggest and greatest comics sit around and talk about what comedy should be. It is always straight dudes. And the fact that this power structure like doesn't have space for women or gay men means that the path up is not built for us as well that it is a system that is built so guys who look like them can become future. Them's and I'm tired of that. And it was I realize how much I had spent my comedy career trying to prove to those dudes that I was good enough and funny enough to be taken seriously. And if all of us are constantly trying to do that it's not going to change anything in eighty five percent of comics are still going to be straightened. It's yeah. And you said soberly, and I had never thought about it. This way, you said that sexual harassment is one of the tools that these men these straight comics us to remind other comics that your status that their status is provisional. Right. It is it is a signal harassment is a signal of the hierarchy like the thing is I am not a person who should be publicly expressing a lot of opinions about the way sexual harassment effects women. I am not a woman. But I think as goddess. Which is different. But as we have been so bracingly reminded recently like sexual harassment sexual assault. Sexual violence is being used all the time to fill women with fear and marginalization and just sort of realizing in the wake of all of these things that had been rumors about Louis C K being substantiated by the New York Times that I was part of a business that was doing this to women who were working really hard and trying really hard to be the best comics that they could it made me mad at myself like it made me so angry that comedy a thing that I love was so sustainably telling women that they didn't matter, and it was also a reminder that like these tools and similar tools are used to remind people like me that we don't matter can anyone here. Name like a very famous game. Stand up comedian. That didn't happen accidentally bike, it isn't just happenstance. It's not gay guys. Didn't want to do that you go to Rupo's drag race you go to, you know, like funny novelists funny writers. They're gay dudes all over the place. Stand up has made itself a place where people like me aren't welcome. And a couple of options in that situation. God knows wouldn't I be more noble if I just tried really hard and worked very hard and got half as far. But instead, I wine loudly and write things on the internet's love it. Love it. It's time for a break. Thank you guy random. We'll be right back with my guests today. Comedian and writer guy, Brandon. You're listening to it's been a minute live at the Crawford family forum here at KPCC in Pasadena. We'll be right back. The following message comes from our sponsor capital. One. Would you know if someone applied for credit using your social security number if not listen to Joe Witcher, head of the credit wise at talk about the new SSN track air his team recently released while identity fraud is something everyone needs to be worried about we wanna make it easy and seamless for them to become aware of anybody attempting to use their identity without their knowledge or permission, credit wise is free for everyone. Whether you're a Capital One customer or not you can find credit wise in your at or play store now. Hey, L Sam Sanders here again in the car on the side of the ten somewhere in Arizona to ask you a few questions. I are you enjoying this episode with guy Brandon? I sure hope so second have you enjoyed any of my previous chats with authors and actors and writers and thinkers and journalists that we bring you here on the show all the time third if you answered yes to either of those previous two questions, would you consider supporting the work that goes into each and every episode out this show, would you head to donate that NPR dot org slash Sam to give to public radio. It's donate dot NPR dot org slash Sam. All right. I'm getting back on the road. I'll let you get back to the show and joy. We are talking about comedy behind done so much stuff. I want you to like rapid fire told me all the Hollywood jobs. You've had go go go to write jokes for Joan rivers on fashion. Police right. Not jokes for ashram culture on punked. Best best best. I had to interview people in a funny way about renewable energy like two weeks ago in Las Vegas, and I make too much money for. I wrote for Billy on the street. I wrote for the Mindy project. I wrote for awkward on MTV. I wrote for another period on comedy central. I wrote for a video game show called x play where I had to pretend to know things about video games on sports. Like, so many other jobs that you were a new because you're on TV shows. Chelsea you were to go 'cause they'll go recurring on the show partners on CBS. But the show was cancelled before I got to be on. I played Natalie Portman sassy, gay friend. In no strings attached resident gay on Chelsea lately. I root for Chelsea lately. I wrote for totally bias W Kamau bell. And I appeared on it. And like the thing about L outcasts. Keep going have a podcast it's called pop rocket. And you should listen to it. Oh, yeah. I mean, the thing is is that like you have to have a lot of hustles to make it through this town. But it has couldn't do it. It's fun. You like it. I mean, it's annoying and I'm very bad at maintaining a schedule. So I fail at it on a regular basis as the people who listen to pop rocket can attest. Sometimes I'm just not there. But like there is something nice about getting to do a variety of things as a non traditionally looking gay, man. Like a lot of the industry has been like you're behind the scenes, you just write things and having a variety of jobs means I get to do variety of things like as soon as I get annoyed with having to be in makeup. I'm then, you know at a writer's room at the minute. I'm tired of just being in a writer's room. I'm at the Crawford. Family forum talking. I love it. I love it. We're going to go to a, but I I want to bring this back into the book for a little bit. Okay. I am going to make you read a bit more about your description of the popular culture of my best friends wedding. And how it speaks to from my best friends wedding lap for it. That's what you should clap too. I wish I had had you watching this movie with me when I was a kid watching it with my mother because I would have grown up to be such a more self aware in better gay had seen the film with it. You saw it. But I didn't see it that way. When I thought the first time the first time, I thought I was just like I like this movie spent the following twenty years trying to understand better why like stop move, and you laid out so beautifully. I don't wanna give you you to give us implant set up for those who haven't watched it. They're dead to me. But tell us who the characters are. And who whatever it's character is my best friend's wedding is about a woman named Jules. Who is played by. Julia Roberts who is agreed with this dude who is either Dermott Maroney, but Don MC Dermott. No one knows. If they turn twenty eight unmarried, they're going to get married, and he calls her and she thinks that he's going to be bringing that up. And even though she doesn't really like this guy. She likes it. He likes her. And he announces that he is getting married to this woman named Kimmy who is played by Cameron Diaz, and he wants her to come be his his best, man. And she realizes like oh. Damn I'm in love with this guy. I want him to love me. And now I am losing him. So she goes and tries to break up the wedding. It is an anti rom com. And she has a sassy gay friend played by Rupert ever at who's there to be her beard almost. Yeah. He shows up to be her beard, but he like so magically dances around on the plot. Sort of like reminding all of the straight people that they are ridiculous. And there are other ways of life. And I think it is a profoundly queer story in the thing. What you straight people don't think about is. No, one told us what our lives should look like, you know, when we were young. We were constantly being told like, you shouldn't exist, and maybe you should go to jail. So like just being able to be passed. That is pretty nice for me. But still no one ever said, oh, you're gay first date. What is that? Look like, oh, do you get married, and we're having to figure that stuff out which is fun. But also there is a lack of these structures, and my best friend's wedding doesn't necessarily show us a path, but it craps on your path which import. When did you questions now, and we're gonna take a few raise your hand, Mike holder. Hello, thank you was a lot leader of you guy. Fix much. Thank you, very sweets. My name is Chris Smith who are some of your favorite homosexual male comedians. You think we should know about? Oh, that's a great question. James jomie in Joel Kim booster Solomon. Giorgio is May's great. Yeah. Both Solomon Joel and Julio Torres all have comedy central half hours. It just came out that you can watch online. Tim Dillon has a net. Flicks fifteen minutes, I think I think Matteo lane has a net. Flicks fifteen minutes, there are really good people out there who are doing amazing stuff and people are starting to notice now. But you know, to some extent the industry isn't wasn't ready for that. Like a lot more quality was being made than people like these people weren't getting managers or agents awhile ago because nobody knew what you do with a gay guy standup. Things are better now. Everything's fixed. You guys. Did it nail that? Yup. Also me should buy my album football available wherever comedy albums, both right? Amazon. We can another question coming up. Hi, my name is Shannon quarter and this has been so delightful. Thank you so much. I agree. Also about burning down the table, the sys-, wait straight man sable at the comedy club. But how do we do that? Like do. We start our own table until they're like, oh, that's where the cool kids are. I mean, that's really a lot of what's happening. You know, when I go to New York where I want to perform are the rooms in Brooklyn where there is queer interesting comedy going on here in Los Angeles. So much of the really good comedy. That's happening. Our backyard shows in like glass, L Parker Hancock park like people are creating their own structures. And institutions, and I think like more power to the people of color and women queer people who are fighting their way up through the clubs. But I think half of that is just not behaving those guys as those guys are the end, all and be all. End all and be all of success that they are the end all and be all of dignity and respect like be doing this. So that your female peers respect you as much as you're doing it for the dude peers, you know. Yeah. More questions. Hi, leanne. So I work with high schoolers, and I read your book really the first week of high school, and it gave me a lot of insight into what was happening internally for a lot of the students that I work with who are LG BT. And it was it. It gave me a deep empathy that really changed my perspective on how to work with these students. So if I were to go to them, and sort of offer them a version of my best friends wedding today for those fifteen year olds and sixteen-year-olds. What would you suggest that? I offer. Oh, that's a great question. I think two things that spring to mind are the movie Alex love on its on Netflix right now. And it is like an honest like queer, silly teen comedy that's super funny. But also a lot more honest than something like love Simon. And then there was a British show. It was called beautiful people. I mean, it's about to like fourteen year old Gabe noise, just trying to figure out life in the nineties in Britain. And there are musical numbers and signed me, look, they do Tracy omens other single. Are we familiar with Tracy almonds pop career because you know, about you don't know about love, but the song sunglasses? It's pretty great. Yeah. I mean, there there is there is so much more culture that you're sort of acknowledges that we have clear teenagers. And I think the hard part is just feeling as though the things that are going on inside of you aren't things that can be expressed and aren't things that are reflected in pop culture at all at the end of the day, though. There are only going to watch weepy things about women. So I mean all About Eve at the end of the day. I mean, all gay culture really can be boiled down to like all About Eve, the color, purple and then sex. The holy trinity. It really is. Many many thanks to my guest this evening comedian and writer guy random I had so much fun. Thank you guys. Thank you for having me. Thanks to all of you. This lovely wonderful audience here in person. And also, thanks our listeners at home. The show was produced every week by print five minutes on Sassari art field as editor Hopman, and we can do none of this stuff. Like this. Without our senior events manager Joanna Palau SCA special. Thanks to everyone here. KPCC that made the show having tonight John cone, managing producer KPCC in person. Actually Alvarado of Tony Federico Daphne Lou Quincy Sura Smith and Liz Zimmerman our director program NPR is Steve Nelson. And I also want to thank all of the volunteers here tonight at KPCC Herschel Chevy Shelley's Scanlon, David Abelson, and Maureen Moreland the big boss who signs my paycheck is on your grandma and listeners back in your feeds Friday until then the. God is talk soon.

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Ep. 12: Aliens Love Kentucky

Happy Hour Gets Weird

39:17 min | 10 months ago

Ep. 12: Aliens Love Kentucky

"Are you about Weirdo. That keeps bringing up extraterrestrial but stuff and abby are good This is the podcast for you. Welcome to happy hour gets weird. I it's just on the fly every time just organic or join. We're on we're going. Hello so we're back. Did you miss. 'cause we missed you we did. I mean it feels I can spend a million years. Yeah and now seventy five years old and you don't look a day over eighty hi. I'm Cathy and I'm tiffany. And this is happy. Hour Gas S.. Weird where the podcast where we have cocktails and talk about Weird Shit. Tens of cocktails and tons of Action when she said tons of cock then I was like I have a drink my mouth seriously. Are you trying to ruin our sound studio up Freudian slip this week. We're drinking an allusion. It's Midori Vodka Pineapple Lemon and just a whole bunch of delicious grainstuff. Tiffany has resident bartender. So she mostly does the recipes and the cocktail. I try to find something good. I've never had this before and we wanted to do something a little different with the MIDORI. It's pretty good. It's it's fruit is tropical. I think we both like it a little heavier on the pineapple. Ya unless jaw rancher more yes less less jolly rancher church more tropical less Charlie enter more vodka. Yes but as always will have our recipe on her instagram. Yeah happy are gets weird POD WE POST host. Our were all of our cool. Rt Content on instagram are drink recipes. Any behind the scenes of the podcast cast any extra information. That didn't get on the PODCAST. So if you're on instagram. Come find US Hadley Years Pod. If you're not on instagram. Start an instagram. So you can come find us. Also that's where you can send us stories. We would love to hear stories of your weird experiences or any feedback upright so we are back my holidays. I had a great holiday. I have lots of family over. We did a lot of traveling. My kids had a great Christmas. I had a great Christmas. New Years was new in with the new out with old yet. That was all in with the new and I did get stuck in that weird time-warp between Christmas and new years where where you forget to shower for. What eight is a day it is? You don't know what time it is. You don't know your name where you live how to get to the grocery store you've been going to for three years straight I got. I got warped in there at one point. My husband actually asked me if I went outside in the rain shower. Just go nope. I had no idea what day it was for a full week. Yeah and speaking of missing time. That is the perfect segue to our topic this week. It is fucking alien abduction. I'm so excited is fantastic. I mean I almost most segment x files theme song. I didn't know if we'd get sued. So just imagine that in your head right now I'll do it. Don't do it just off the NF. That nobody will. I know what it is and we won't get. We're really excited about this episode. It's one of our favorite subjects topics. Yes I mean and I didn't. I was doing a little bit researching researching paranormal UFO and Ufology and all of that stuff falls under paranormal. Make sense so a paranormal is kind of what we're both into. And you have those under the umbrella of paranormal I rambling. I'll stop. This is our will house so anyways before we get into that you had some business. I have a little business. Okay I just WANNA I start out by saying thank you so much all of our listeners we have I have three different countries. We have the Philippines Australia. Canada United States. I think the Philippines I saw the other one asks. I know who have. We're up to like twelve states at this point. Yeah we have a lot of state. We have Kentucky we see you we see you. We're here for you. Yeah now we this episode specifically dedicated to the State of Kentucky we do. We should dedicate an episode every time. Yeah that's a good idea. Starting from now on we people always dedicated episode in. This week's episode is dedicated to Kentucky Kentucky. So I just wanted to start out by saying thank you so much for listening. Thank you so much for your Support and we hope you love this as much as we do. We love doing it. We're having a great time in case you can't tell unless we put in a lot of work behind the scenes but then when you think about it it's I don't consider it work because we just research topics we love and and we have drinks which we both love to do and we talk to each other like we normally would but we're building a community and I want this community get bigger I would love to have discussions and the way that that happens is how the podcast works is the more subscribes and the more reviews reviews. You have the more they promote you and the more that I'm you get promoted the bigger the community gets so if you love us there was a review. It would really help us to get out there more and builder community. Yes and we're working really hard every episode to to make sure that our sound is better to make sure that our content is better Even though it is fun which and we don't really talk about it. We definitely are always trying to make our episodes better with all wanted to do is i. I want to read a review okay and this one comes from Aaron Shane K. W. and Aaron Erin says five out of five stars content is fresh and keeps me entertain. Ten out of ten. Love will thank you so much Erik ten. We love have you. Yes we give you a ten out of ten and thank you so much we appreciate that thank you. Are you ready. Let's get into it are are you scared not scared. I'm I'm always a little bit scared. Okay so as we said at the top Yep our subject for this week is alien abductions I have a story that is pretty famous. And if you are well-versed I in the alien ufology world world then you might already know it. Let me start with my sources. So we don't forget a website. It called the Black Volta Dot Com. It's mysterious and cool. Also an article on the Clermont Son and Kentucky Chucky Dot Com Slash News Really Yes Kentucky in two thousand twelve. The Pioneer playhouse of Danville Kentucky decided to create a play inspired by one of the many alien encounters to come out of their state. Although the play wasn't a literal retelling it is set in the present day for example the place creators are quick to cite a particular alien abduction and the following investigation as their source material. The play was called High Strangeness. snus it on January six Nineteen seventy-six Mona Stafford Louise Smith and Elaine. Thomas had an experience. They will never forget. They were abducted. Mom Yeah not one three before we get into that. I thought that I would start by just telling you a little bit about the women because information from during that time. Mona staffer was thirty. Six as secretary for her father's trailer park although she had previously we own an arts and crafts store she was divorced in Nineteen Seventy Linda pretty quiet life and attended hilltop hilltop Church of Christ. Louise Smith was forty four years old. She was widowed young and raised her daughter and son into adulthood as a single mother. She was a grandmother who loved art as did the other two women she painted and sketched as a hobby she was employed as an extension assistant for the Casey County extension. Office were duties included visiting families in the county in counseling muscling them on food preservation nutrition etc.. She was a gospel singer for the Baptist Church. Everyone who was later interviewed about Louise from police to ministers had nothing nothing but nice words about her. Elaine Thomas was forty eight years old and a homemaker. She was married and had a daughter and three grandchildren. She was also a lifelong Churchgoer at the Church of Christ Mona Louis. Any Lane Red Louise's trailer hanging out when they decided that since it was Mona's thirty six birthday they should celebrate with a late dinner. They knew of a restaurant that was a little out of town but for one it was open late and for two. There was a painting there that the women wanted to scotch like. I said they're really into art. The women drove Lewis in nineteen seventy six Chevy Nova which she had just purchased that day. The twenty nine miles to the Redwood Restaurant in Lancaster Kentucky to they have meatballs. I don't know if their meals their way. I just love me that's your only contribution so armee doesn't love me. I love me both to excuse me you say restaurant ethics amoebae people's this is not a Word Association. Game cast all right right sorry the women had dinner and sketched and generally had a good time. I mean not dishonest because it does sound fun and I like how they were Kinda like spur of the moment. Oh my gosh. It's it's your birthday. Who Cares if it's nine PM? Let's go to dinner. Yeah also I just WanNa note for any skeptics out there. None of the women had any alcohol with their meals. Okay so clearly. It wasn't us at dinner but yeah I mean yeah I have a question was this. You probably said this was this rule. Blue Kentucky I think that they lived in a small town and I think that Lancaster was bigger because nothing in their town was even open late. SAIMAA zooming it was like they drove thirty minutes. Okay kind of like how. I'm from a really small town in thirty minutes. In either direction it was not big town but medium. You know hundred thousand. Yeah so I'm assuming that was the the situation all right so the women eight had a great time sketched whatever the three women left the restaurant at eleven uh-huh Fifteen and headed down highway seventy eight towards home. Suddenly all three women saw a bright red light in the sky. Mona thaw an airplane was on fire. Sure Oh as they move closer to the light in the Sky Lewis lost control of the car and it begins speeding at eighty five miles per hour. Even though her foot it was off the gas pedal okay. Now I'm fully you're in your. I'm invested. The car seemed to drive itself and Louis couldn't control it even after after Mona reached over and grabbed the steering wheel to try to help her so to women on the steering wheel. Cars driving itself eighty five miles an hour. The women were soon confronted with the object that that they had seen in the sky it was huge. One report was that it was as large as two houses. Another woman said it was like two football fields. Guess it depends the house. Yeah it was a metallic disc like object with Dome on top and red lights around the middle so your typical you of level. UFO flying saucer disc like Mexican hat style. However you wonder Sombrero style? Hope you ought to describe it. I'll make some borough style. I've never heard that before for I will never look at some of the UFO state alongside the car filling its interior with a white light and they kind of fog. Oh interesting the women's is burned and they could barely see what this week. The last thing they recalled was the car being led backwards into a nearby pasture. We what the women found themselves back on the highway headed towards home. They were scared. Tends ends had painful burns on areas of their skin. When they finally arrived at Louis They noticed the time one twenty am this meant that their thirty nine mile mile trip that usually took around forty five minutes had taken them over two hours sit? The women had lost time. They were so shaken. They even went to a neighbor neighbor to confirm the. Our women immediately called the police and the nearby naval station. Neither of them really did anything except for some reason that I don't. I'm not really sure why by the Naval Station informed the local news station and the story hit the press. I don't really know why that happened. It didn't give an explanation on any of the articles. I read it. Yeah why would they. I don't know they sure do that. Now weird yeah so the students again. I'm seventy six six so the story hit the press. Shit Shit went wild when move on investigator Jerry. Black her this story he immediately reached out. There were so many errors in that sentence. I can't believe I read it correctly. At first. The women resisted but finally agreed to a meeting. Black found. The women still shaken. They had all lost weight since the the incident they were in physical pain they also each had a red half stoller sized burn on their neck. Interesting Interesting Lewis claimed that the hands on her watched move a radically. After the event she couldn't focus at work and her pet bird would fly into the corner of her cage an act terrified when she approached which makes me think something may be radiation I don't know that I don't know either it's weird. It's it's scary to think. Give your pet. Suddenly being afraid of you is really creepy and yet it may be implant wave I don't know it's it's disturbing. They all had trouble remembering events and Black said they seem close to a breakdown. Black wanted move on to investigate the case. He wanted the women to undergo undergo regressive hypnosis. He believed that remembering what helped them recover from their trauma because they were all obviously the felt like something happened but didn't remember it so they couldn't they couldn't they couldn't process it and then recover and get better. They were just kind of like sitting in this horrible experience. Right again EH I. The women refuse the hypnosis. I I mean I just think that they were truly terrified. Yeah I think that they were afraid to even remember. Finally after remove agreed not to publish any findings until the women felt comfortable with it. They agreed to the hypnosis. Dr Sprinkle was brought in for the I guess and I've heard of him before and I think it's the silt like the funniest name. I just love it doctors wrinkle. It's very silly. Yes yes so the I I I says doctors breakoff ice cream. Man You guess Dr Sprinkle so the First Session did not go well. I think it was just still too fresh in too traumatic for the women. It basically. They didn't really only get anywhere. Because I believe it was Louisa. They tried to hypnotized I and I think that she just kind of like a a breakdown a a little time passed and they all kind of stayed friends they just they talked Dr Blackman. The women will talk but they kept it. Friendly didn't talk about the variance. How are you? Yeah yeah they just wanted to maintain the relationship so little time passed and black decided that the only way to push forward with this was to make a deal with the national enquirer fire. Oh No I know. Although the enquirer didn't have the best reputation they could fund the project and bring back the therapist and scientists needed to study the Women Brooklyn they also had a well known. UFO investigator bet did have the good reputation that the enquirer lacked his name was Bob Pratt. You mean doctors from Google didn't have a good reputation. Chocolate sprinkle wasn't with the anywhere was taken seriously doctors for goals of move on but apparently the national enquirer had bought Pratt Pratt and I guess he was a big deal in the UFO community. They also brought in a skeptic with detective James Young who would administer a polygraph test so the enquirer. I mean you know doesn't have the best threat but it does have the money and the connections basically deal with the devil. The few will. Yes so sean. Inquire sponsors this episode brought to you by the national enquirer. The women began the session with the polygraph test which they all passed without any any signs of deception or call even detective young was surprised and began to reconsider his stance after. They all did so well in this polygraph. He knew that they weren't lying. Doc I mean. I don't know a polygraph polygraph. I feel like I don't trust polygraphs but I think you could be. Nervous are embarrassed and it could feel deceptive orchids Rita's deceptive. Yeah I mean I don't personal interest polygraphs but I feel like if all three of them are totally calm and maintaining composure. Hoosier not showing any signs of of anything of any sort of distress or a nervousness. I think that that would reinforce the idea that they were telling the truth. Ellison their own mind experience happened and also this was his job so he obviously believed it. Yeah Yeah I guess inexperience polygraph believes what they're doing right. Yes they and they know how to read people. I think I think rafter human behind the polygraph is better than the machine. Yes so after the polygraph which like I said they all passed the women worked with Dr Sprinkle on the regressive hypnosis. Okay this is what they remembered. It's it's about who now Ooh all three women were taken aboard aircraft. Nothing sexual was done to them but they were laurine but they were thank God. He's visits but they were put in humiliating situation. Okay Louise's exam was done on a table. A lane was inside a capsule with a noose like object around her neck and Mona was any type of chair. Their bodies were scanned their limbs examined and sometimes is bent backwards or at odd angles. Two of the women remembered a warm liquid being applied to their bodies which totally reminds me of the movie fire in the sky and it fucking second freaks me out on the town that is pretty common law a abducted of the abductees stories is like a warm lube. Yeah yes got applied to their body. The figures doing these exams were somewhat hidden. They seem to glide by and had large dark eyes Mona Stafford described an eye exam quote. I could see a light at the end of the tunnel which looked like a volcano with jagged. GET EDGE UNQUOTE. At this point. She described great pain in the is just like they'd been pulled out she said Mona recalled a single bright purple I with radiating lightning like raise Elaine described to is from a round head in deep darkness. One I she said was a beautiful blue encircled by a blue membrane. IUS Lid like a turtle and the other I appeared dark elaine who recalled the most about their abductors said had there were several small figures about four feet. Tall Lewis tried not to look at the alien beings because she was so frightened but added that their hands looked like jagged. Good wingtips they. All said aliens communicated with telepathy. Cook lie after the women had told there's yes communicated with each other now with them I think or with them with the woman I think that they met with them okay. I mean altogether uncommon. Yeah that's a common year. After the woman had told their stories none of the investigators had any doubts as to the legitimacy of their claims Furthering their case others in the Lancaster area saw UFO that employ reports were made about reddish orange lights and large luminous this objects in the sky that night teens all UFO flying and because they're teenagers were like fuck it. Let's follow it and they chase the UFO until it was out of sight and they reported boarded the craft of the police that very night significantly the owner of the pastor that the women were taken from reported an unusually low flying object suiting a beam of light to the ground in over forty years. None of the women's stories have ever been disproved. And that is the story of the abduction of Mona Louise Annually. Matt's pretty fucking scary. It's scary and it's one of the most widely believed corroborated the most evidence. They had a lot of research done on them. They proved to be deceptive. Were Liar yeah or four and like I said. A lot of people in the area saw the craft. So I mean if it wasn't aliens it was something I mean I just don't I want to know why them was it. Random think. That's the question everybody wants to know and also it's very I feel like it's so unusual that it's three Women all taken. Yeah Dr hoops. I just come to the MIC. My Gosh that was fantastic. Awesome thank you. You did a great job queue and now you have something to add only goodness okay. So I'm just going to talk about a little bit about size it. You might have been abducted. I'm so terrified right now. And you know what a lot of these women had the symptoms of abduction. Yeah so I- further cooperation. Yeah okay it's wild and crazy okay So I am. I'm going to read. There's a list on line from Metro News Okay and it was an article published. I I rob Wa on January two thousand fifteen now he got his information from humans are free dot com and humans are free. Did a an article. It's called strong evidence of alien alien abductions and basically they talk to people that said that they were abducted and gathered all of the symptoms. uh-huh they were having after the abduction and then they made a condensed list of seventy two. Oh Shit possible. Signs signs of alien abduction. A lot of each held by duck tease will then Metro and rob Wa did The top thirteen mean okay So I'm GonNa go through ROB's list okay and they're interesting. It's scary if you have had. These signs are experiencing these signs. You might want to look into this. You might I wanna be up now. It says hypnotic regression which Louise And Mona any elaine participated in is often used to recall information. But sometimes it's not really necessary. It's spontaneously recalled now some object tease after their abducted they could their life could change dramatically. They could become like a born unchristian orbit on the opposite spectrum become heavy into alcohol and drug abuse and there are behavior can come become very excessive and Iraq. Okay number one and these are no particular order. Lost Lost Time missing hours missing days anytime that you cannot remember what happened or account for story my life okay. Well that doesn't include alcohol abuse. Okay never okay so committing time from alcohol or drug abuse. No judgment here. But that doesn't count. Okay Okay Okay to marks on your body so any unexplained marks Burns scratches. Arches scarring has been is constantly covered in scratches and he doesn't know where they come from Particularly ankles wrists back okay. Okay Yeah but an more specifically Liga laser cut occurred like a very clean cut. not scratches like you walk through a blockade Bush okay Unin drunken stupor okay. I feel attacked are won't do that again. Number three humming noises at night. ooh Fuck now. Yeah specifically when you're falling asleep okay. Number number four the feeling of being watched folsom especially at night number five sleepwalking. Yeah so sleepwalking. Could be symptom of abduction. Okay that's weird number six sinus problems. Okay now how this could be a lot of people I was reading. Feel like they have had some implant in their sinuses. Oh God but among among sinus problems it could be Arash as some kind of rash A lot of rashes actually are reported after Someone thinks ed been abducted. Okay strange rashes. I mean not only from whatever happened to them but also rashes or away that your body handles trauma of any kind really really. Yeah like if you're starting to get sick a lot of times you'll have a rash because it's like your body fighting off things. Yeah yeah that makes that makes sense. Sometimes when I'm stressed I get. Yeah because it's your body bike. All my must off like a mustache on my top lip. I'll get hives since your body protecting you creating creating the mustache so you look stronger to fight off. Whatever the fuck is happening? It's amazing basically just a AH psychological wellbeing it is it is staying really from the lady. You see this Red Moustache I will fuck up if your world okay. Thank you stress. That's awesome. Thank you number seven dreaming about animals and was in on circulars. Fuck it okay. Yeah Number Eight Turning Vegetarian Oh interesting I don't know why it. He didn't really explain why I can look into that. If you're curious that's an interesting one or if you know why let us know these let me know. Are you a rashy vegetarian. He it was abducted by aliens now. I'm I'm on the edge. I see here I wanNA know I wanNA know number nine low self esteem okay. It's not view it's them okay. Okay yeah I I don't really know you're covered and rashes. You have low protein in your body you have less self. Esteem have unexplained unexplained cuts in Mark's. I feel like lowly though off team is yeah makes them yeah. It's a lot your mess. Your habits yeah number. Ten blood on your pillow. Oh God that scary. I don't know I don't like that. Yeah I don't really know what that's about okay. Number Eleven your TV goes funny. They're here who again you're breaking. Hell number twelve says scary cupboard which is I guess maybe it happened in your cover like the people that say they are abducted said that they were scared of a particular covered in their house or closet in there like something walked out of it. Okay that is scaring the shit out of me. 'cause they always have to have my closet door shut when I go to bed. Or maybe that they were brought in there or or somebody was waiting there. I Dunno and taking a number thirteen is taking vitamins compulsively. I think that is because your body feels like it's lacking in a nutrient After their examination. So one of the abductee says I kept telling myself it was because I wanted to be healthy. So maybe their everybody was like had a feeling of lacking a nutrients or maybe because that's all. You Crave Summer Foods is because your body knows you're lacking a nutrient right so I mean that's pretty freaky. All of those things are scary and it's also like if I had any of those I would also be thinking it's my house haunted. Yeah Uh you know those are all very those could be Haunting symptoms to all of them. But what if alien stuff and haunting stuff is connected while says freaking me out that is this is the problem with believing in everything. You're scared of every you know. Here's the thing if we get into that it's we're about to go down the route because there are a lot of believes out there that they like like it's all connected like it's all like is it another dimension rate multidimensional thinking. Oh my God okay. Can I just say something that I remembered Ecorse a weird experience when I lived in Mangold old house our old rental one night in the nighttime and Everybody was in bed in. I heard an extremely loud sound on my roof Like there was a helicopter sitting on top of my roof. Really that's how loud it was. Yeah it was crazy. I don't it was it was A. That's the only way I can explain. It was like a helicopter was sitting on top of my roof. I ran outside like an idiot idiot in the horror movie. Who who you're like? Why would you fucking run towards it because I thought that it was a legit helicopter? I'm like they're looking for an ex-con yeah and I ran outside and nothing was there and then I came inside in the sand was gone weird. Yeah and my husband. We weren't married right at the time but my husband and I both heard it and it was very strange industry ring in it. I think that it's crazy that if it were a helicopter I would have seen it when I ran outside because helicopters off ast and you heard the WHO. Yes inside my house. Yes inside my house like something was sitting on my roof and when I ran outside nothing was there uh and my landlord was like maybe it was the pipes and unlike the old pipes in this Two Thousand Seven House. Like what are you talking about. It was usually branch heard something enough to contact your landlord. Yeah yes I told him. Okay so when you said you heard something like a helicopter always thinking I know I heard the sound of helicopter. Yes like that need. That was weird and then it was going and it was a shared experience. Yeah your Asu. Yeah ooh I remembered that when you when. I'm one of the things that you said. Although the hero humming humming yeah or clicking it could click that made me think also too. I've read another article. I don't remember the name of it. Couldn't it maybe. It wasn't even an article but the beeping being a car. Line like a book. That was on Hellier. Oh yeah that's right and shut of a class or a baby cry her baby crown however Soga as a parent though I feel great shower. tyner baby crying Shower and yeah just something in your Reptilian rain and I think that that is a callback to the reptile brain because we are trained to hear the sounds of our baby crying we are trained to hear a high pitched sound yes breath because that is how we are protecting our offspring survival so maybe that is why you hear it because that's like one of the most ancient sounds that humans have always paid attention to Since the beginning of time is a baby crying. Yeah Oh God I'm soter happening. We're going down the rabbit hole. You mentioned Hellier I just WANNA say fantastic show sees. I have watched season one and season two yes. It's very Amazon. I think I have one episode left on season. Two it is. I tried to save something for myself when I'm binging I'm like okay. Just stop just have one thing. Look that was is a fantastic show. Yeah fantastic aggravate for season three. I Wanna I just WanNa do that. I just WanNa go around and just that would be pretty cool in our airstream seriously. Twenty twenty is looking amazing. Well I think that that's our show for today. Yeah you know I do. You want to make shoutout to are definitely Natalie. Hi Natalie okay. So she has her has been put themselves out there and they opened a restaurant in our local town of Yuba city. And we just want to. They're coming up on their our one year anniversary and being open and the name of the restaurant is Lambert House cafe and I just wanted to give her a little love because they've worked really really hard and I will say that it is my favorite breakfast spot in town and both of my daughter's favorite. They both love it there. They like how they can color in the the book and they like the pancakes there. I have very special sour doping. Sourdot pancakes are my favorite pancakes. I've ever had delicious. I just I always like to have a dessert after my breakfast and I have a pancake after Mike Normal breakfast foods. Oh my gosh. That's a great idea. I don't do that. I just you pancakes for breakfast. No I have two breakfasts so a little bit about Lambert House cafe. It's in Yuba City California. If you live. There's your traveling through. Please stop in such super q inside. It's colorful and fun and adorable and they always have local art on the walls. It's great I mean Natalie. The herself is very artistic. I've known her ten plus years now. She's an amazing woman and And anyone that has ever worked in a restaurant knows how much work that is. Yeah she is a restaurant owner. She has two little kids. Her husband is in a local ban man so little bit about them. They're open seven days a week from six. Am to two PM and they serve breakfast and lunch breakfast is served. All Day. Mon Starts in eleven you can dine in take out catering and it's in a historical building in Yuba city at it's also available to rent for private parties raced in. It's super Q at like so birthday party or tea. Party Holiday Party. I mean it's a really cool historic space. It's it's really cute. So they're located located at two. Oh Eight Bridge Street in C- California there on the corner of Second Street and Bridge Street and they're soon going to be offering beer and lying. Oh manual episode in their baby so Valentine's Day is there one year anniversary. So cool the go-to there on social media pages and you can check out their menu. They pose a special every day. Is Lambert House cafe on facebook and instagram. And if you're interested in getting service you can call them at five three zero six seven four three five four four and they have Catering available for any budget. So check them out. They're really good. I've definitely definitely check them out. Great Food Great People. Yeah and and tell him if you go in tell them casting tiffany from arrogance weird set you know now would just die really. She had to it if someone came in and said you know. CASSIE tiffany recommended recommended. This place so thank you so much for listening. Thank you so much as always for listening we are having a great time and we hope you are too and also it's the beginning of a new year and it's looking pretty good so far. We have a lot of amazing and exciting topics coming up that we're excited now. We can't wait to talk about of you. Who Topic that you WanNa talk about? Want us to talk about or a story that you think has been under served. Oh Yeah you wanNA bring attending to. Yeah aw email. US At happy hour gets weird. gmail.com find us on instagram. At happy hour gets weird pod you condemn us. You can leave us a comment it. Could you know you gotta find us where a small platform but we love to use it. Yeah Yeah We'd love to talk about important topics and we are topics and and and cool topics and fun topics yet. And we're shit we're Chit so Reach out and Amano Happy Twenty twenty. Happy Twenty twenty and and it's been a long cold winter so don't forget hydrate meditate and masturbate cheers cheers to that uh-huh.

Mona Elaine Thomas UFO Kentucky US Tall Lewis Mona Louise investigator Dr Sprinkle Lambert House cafe CASSIE tiffany Yuba city Natalie Louise Smith Twenty twenty Lancaster national enquirer
Guy Branum Goes to Minnesota, Gets Good Internet, Finds Self

The Hilarious World of Depression

45:36 min | 2 years ago

Guy Branum Goes to Minnesota, Gets Good Internet, Finds Self

"Is depression funny. Oh, absolutely. Depression is funny because it is a fun house mirror. You don't see anything the way that it really is things are two big things or too small, and that is a ridiculous way of looking at life. Doc sisters. Be a sad shake now is there. Take. It's the hilarious world of depression. I'm John Moe. This episode is about coming to terms with who you are. When who you are seems different from who most people are it's about being told you're a monster trying to manage your life as a monster. And then deciding, hey, wait a minute. I'm not a monster. My name is guy Brandon. I am a standup comedian. I'm the host of talk show the game show on TV and the author of my life is a goddess a memoir throw in popular culture and currently in booth at an audio facility on Melrose avenue guy was in L A where his brand of intellectual comedy delivered with some degree of bombast is rapidly making him a star. I was in Minnesota, which is where guy went to law school, Minnesota as you will learn is a very important place to guy I would say the real upsides of Minnesota. You're very strong pancake game. Also like the entire summer slate of festivals awkward tiny. Oh, you're Hopkins raspberry festival. You're still water lumberjack days. Lash. They're they're pretty great. He has a lot to say about Minnesota. Just physical texture of Minnesota. I think gave me some really important tools for figuring out depression because you guys have like six months out of the year where life is physically depressed by the temperature. God tries to kill you every year. Yes. I mean, I like I have a joke about that about how like in Minnesota. You can be killed by outside. Minnesotans don't talk about Minnesota as much as guy Brandon talks about Minnesota. And Minnesotans are always talking about Minnesota. There's that weekend. In may where everyone understands it is over and everyone hits that garden so hard and makes that state as beautiful as they can. Because the time is now my first springtime here. I moved here in March and then on that day in may I asked my wife like is there a ten K going on outside? It just everybody is just a nice day. And everybody's going running all at once. Well, it was very hard for me because I came from northern California where spring lasts about five months. And it was like winning spring and a girl from my law school was just like it's six unconnected days in may. All right. Don't worry. There's more about Minnesota coming up, plenty more. But for now, let's go back to guys origins in Yuba City, California, forty miles or so north of Sacramento farm country. He was born in nineteen seventy five he's forty two. Now, it's very working class. Most people working agriculture or there were a lot of guys who worked in construction. Right dad works and construction because there was a lot of growth going on in Sacramento when I was going up. So it's a place where Lanc other than schoolteachers. I didn't really know anyone who had gone to college. It's very hot. Which you know is really good for for growing, peaches and almonds, but gets kind of annoying during the summertime, you know, it's a place where the factories run six to lake eight weeks out of the year because all they're doing is canning tomatoes or prunes. And so. Very high unemployment rates, very high crime rates, very low education rates. So when lists are compiled of like bad places to raise a child or worst places to live. We always do very very poorly, and can you enumerate the various ways in which you did not fit in in this town in which you're in contrast to the prevailing thing. I just wanted to understand the world that I was saying on television where there were like politics and people who knew seven people who are in charge of things where everyone around me pretty much understood like their job was to be a proletarian. And that's what their parents have done. And that's what their children would be doing. And so that was the primary way that I didn't fit in was like a resolute desire to understand and be understood by the world outside of the place that I was from your close enough to San Francisco that try. Buying or hoping could really destroy you. And it was it was really interesting in the first of all let me say like the tone with which I speak of my hometown. In the book is as much about me as it is about the town. It is about knee sort of you know, parodying my own rage. It having to be in this tiny little town that didn't matter and figure out how I could potentially matter like, it was that rage that sort of pushed me out of there and was very helpful and useful to me. Like, I don't mean to say, it's terrible place. I mean to say it's place that just never quite knew what to do with me. One of the most interesting things was going to the mid west. And seeing what real small towns that aren't in California are like and realizing that like, you know, I remember being in Saint Peter Minnesota, and they had like a community band. And I was like this town is a tenth the size of my town. But it has like a community band and community. Feeder and stuff like the mid west has the sense of lake community and responsibility. But California doesn't have that because it's California. And as I say in the book, everybody showed up six weeks ago, you know, like nobody like very few families where we there before nineteen sixty and so, you know, Joan Diddy, and describes this process of California of people showing up and then immediately crossing their arms and being judgmental of the people who showed up a day after them. I mean, there aren't a lot of people in Yuba city who freely quote Joan Diddy in here's guy on the Conan show. It's really not listen fascinating. The book is terrific. It goes back to your earliest memories. What stands out for you is the most sort of powerful potent early memory like as a small charter grew up on a little farm town in northern California. And while I was growing up. There were always old men who were asking me, what do you want to be when you grow up? And if you're wondering why old men in northern California had southern accents. You're going to need the read the book either this book or the grapes of wrath. I would always give the normal answer. What do you wanna be? When you grow up away tress. Angry with me they were like all want to be a football player. They were obsessed with me being a football player that seemed impractical like it's not a reasonable way of life. You just thought I can't be at when first of all you do have the size and the strength to be a football player. Like, you're a talk show host you've met a lot of like Michael Strahan is probably hear constantly. But most people do not deal with football players professionally on a regular basis. Waitresses, however are all over the place making people's lives better with pancakes. Like. You know, one of the reasons I blame Minnesota is that when I was there for law school is the first time I was ever able to put a label on depression. But it was definitely something that I struggled with before that point. I just didn't have a name for it. It was just part of a larger slate of me not fitting in like, you know, like I was unhappy. I was very, you know, I was frequently unhappy as a child just because it was a hostile world that was yelling at me for my existence. All of the time. And what of that was, you know, psycho chemical, and what if that was just situational? Is hard to say, but you know. Going into Funk's getting alienated like periods where I couldn't really experience. Pleasure. Those were things that happen. But they just felt like the lay of the land. And it wasn't until I went to college in law school, and then came out that it really came to a head enough for me to be able to call it what it was when when it was happening when you were younger. Did you just chalk it up to oh, I'm just a strange person? And this is these are the cards. I've been dealt. I just have to live like this forever. Yeah. And it was really scary to me. Like, I really thought I was going to be trapped in that town. I thought I was going to have to work construction for my entire life. I thought I was never going to be around people who were interested in the things that I was interested in it just seems like this. The world seemed like a barren place. You know, I didn't I wasn't able to say oh me trying to fit into this town is the problem. I just thought it was a condition of my life. But also like it wasn't just the town. It was also the nineteen eighties. Where we didn't know what to do with a little boy who was gay. You know, we didn't have structures for that. And so like being humiliated and having to hide a significant part of who I was just seemed like what one had to do. Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, you gotta make the best of that. And then along came something that expanded guy Brandon's horizons like really quick it was in the form of a comedy special. Eyewash Eddie Murphy, delirious, when I was, you know, I think less than ten years old in the living room of my parents house with Maine's higher family crowded around very excited for this piece of lake sophisticated culture that was coming to us from the outside world. And I I loved it. I like I I thought that he was the funniest in the most in control and sort of the mix of. Confidence and wit and savvy like it's one of the things that most deeply made me want to do what I professional do today and the wave at lake the tropes from that special echoed out in leg. Margaret chose specials in so many people afterwards like the the the trope of the stand up wearing a leather suit, which you know, I understand hearkens back to Richard Pryor before Murphy. But I only knew it from Eddie Murphy. And so I you know, I had fallen in love with so many stand up comics during that period of time, George Carlin Rita redner Poundstone, but like to me the lake the center of power was always any Murphy's delirious. So in two thousand thirteen I was in New York writing on the TV show. And I was like, hey, it's on YouTube. Why don't I just watch it on YouTube and what I didn't realize is the first five. Minutes of that special are just him talking about how gross gay guys are gross is a huge understatement. Here. Eddie Murphy uses the worst slurs to describe gay people. He suggests you could get aids from a kiss it was like shocking because all I remembered was the good thing. All I remember, it is that it made me love stand up, and it made me love the power and confidence and certainty of stand up. And then I had to watch it and realize like it had sown into my brain like constructions of what game and were that had helped keep me in the closet until I was twenty three that made me hate myself. And it's certainly not just Eddie Murphy. It was a world that was doing that. But to have it so sharply included in his thing that I loved and was thing that was like liberating from the world that I lived in. It was. Stark realization, it was a stark realization that it had done something so good and so bad at the same time. It wasn't just that guy realized he loved something that was offensive. It was guys realization that his idea of what enga- man was got formed by this stand up routine. So he had this baked in very negative idea of what gay men were. They are not human beings. They are like gross monsters, like, they are, you know, it was the height of the aids scare and so that's deeply wrapped into it. His you know, belief that being gay means that you have this disease. That is also marginalizing that also makes you disgusting. You know, he does beloved characters from television. Imagine how ridiculous it would be. If they were gay like gay men are gross disgusting risible ridiculous. And she does not want them around. Eddie Murphy issued an apology in nineteen ninety six. He said he was sorry for any pain he caused with the language that he used that was fifteen years after the special was released not super helpful for someone who had been taught by Murphy and society to hate who he was. I until I was in law school. Couldn't look you in the face and tell you that I was gay. I understood that I was sexually attracted to men, but the additional psychological step of being able to say that I was a member of this group was impossible for me because I was a person and gays weren't people. Let's not forget it wasn't that long ago that we were all perfectly allowed to believe that gay shouldn't be able to get married. Barack Obama was elected saying he didn't think that marriage between two men or two women was real marriage like the world was deeply hostile place. And it's hard to learn about the world and be able to as a child pick out this stuff that is like gross or demeaning to you. And you know, I'm I'm never going to be able to extricate myself from the homophobia for the world, I grew up in. We're all trying to make a better world, and that's wonderful. But like. It's in there. Now, some of us can identify with his predicament, and some of us just have to imagine it. But you got Eddie Murphy saying, you're subhuman, and that's also a reflection of what society had been saying for decades. And then you have to go out in the world. Good luck. It feels like you have been handed a curse it feels. Like, hey, I wanna be a good person who fits into the world. And I've got this thing in me that makes that impossible. How do I manage this? Guy was raised Jewish. And when he was growing up sensing that he was not straight. He turned to his religion for answers, judy's teachers that you are not bad person for wanting to do a thing. You just should not do it. And the the laws of Judaism lake the the morality is not in the thing itself. It's not that. Pork is necessary. As it is that you've been commanded not to eat, pork. And so it is in following that that you are sanctifying your life and God's law. And so I really just felt like, you know, because homosexual sex is also forbidden by Judaism, I was like well that is my answer. I will just not engage with this and understand that this is my struggle to bear. And it means that you don't get to have a life that is shaped like everybody else's. And that means that important sources of pleasure are also lake negated and turned into sources of Shane. And I think, you know, having to negotiate all of that stuff made it harder to be happy. The challenge then for guy, and it's a hell of a challenge was to see himself as valuable in a world that told him he was trash not everyone makes it out of that alive. According to the Trevor project young people who are lesbian, gay or bisexual are almost five times as likely to have attempted suicide compared to young people who are heterosexual. Some people are just going to say, you wanna know what your rights or you wanna know what I cannot find a path through this. But I think the people who do end up surviving have to acquire skills along the way. That is a thing. The press loves to write articles about the death of gay culture or the death of the gayborhood or or things like that about how things are going to become so inclusive that we're not going to need gay culture anymore, and that's preposterous because like, you know, gay culture are set of tools that we figured out over time in very hostile situations to lake manager life in a world. That's not built for us, and is never going to be built for us like it can be more inclusive, but we'll still be a tiny minority of the population. Just ahead guy leaves Yuba city, and though he gains more access to cappuccino and foreign cinema. Not all his problems get solved right away. The hilarious world of depression is supported by health partners. And by make it, okay dot org. Make it okay. As a campaign to start conversations and stop the stigma surrounding mental illnesses, not just depression. But all kinds of mental illnesses. We have some laughs on this show. It's a way of dealing with depression. Maybe demystifying depression a little bit making not so scary. But let's not kid ourselves. It's a serious illness. The good news is that people can and do recover the get help. And that's why we need to make it okay to talk openly could be an awkward conversation, but make it. Okay. Dot org is full of information. You can use what to say what not to say in stories for people who tell you what it's like to live with depression, anxiety and other mental illnesses go to make it. Okay dot org where you can take the pledge to make it. Okay. Thanks, so much health partners and to make it okay for joining us in fighting stigma. So we can all get better. Just a reminder all about promo codes here folks a alive times with our sponsors. You hear me give a promotional code to use at checkout. Use promo code hilarious that kind of thing I wanna point out when you use those you get great deals. Yes. Which is wonderful. But it also really helps us because the sponsors. Then see that hilarious world listeners are great audience, and that they buy things and sign up for things. And then those sponsors say, hey, this is great. And they wanna keep sponsoring us. And that keeps the show strong and keeps it going. So everybody wins you use those codes you shop at those sponsors. You get the great deal the sponsors, keep sponsoring us. It's wonderful. So do that. It's like I wanna take vitamins, but then I got to figure out which ones take and sort them all out and remember to take them, and I just end up not doing it. But dig this care of is a monthly subscription vitamin service that delivers completely personalized vitamin and supplement packs right to your door. It all starts with this fun online quiz ask you about your diet health goals lifestyle. Choices takes about five minutes to find out what vitamins and supplements use specifically need then it gets delivered straight to your door in these personalized easy to remember daily packs. It's perfect for a busy lifestyle. You just have the pack right there. That's what you do. Boom. Take them out the door. You're fine. Vegan vegetarian supplement options are available to match your dietary needs. I tried this myself, and I couldn't believe how can knew it was all those gripes. I had about sorting these things out instantly solved for twenty five percent off your first month of personalized care of vitamins. Visit care of dot com. Tom and enter promo code hilarious. Hey, everyone wanted to give a shout out to another great podcast called Collier girlfriend. Call your girlfriend. That's me giving the shoutout. Call your girlfriend is a podcast for long distance besties everywhere. Co and best friends. I mean, not too. So an and Friedman call each other to laugh and rage. You can learn how to spot a scam or how to get your money. Right. You can just kind of hang out for a while. It's a low pressure, affirming. Hang so grab a snack. Tune in for real talk laughter and comfort. It's like hanging out with two of your best friends, and they do all the talking, and you could just relax. So listen to call your girlfriend at call your girlfriend dot com on Stitcher apple podcasts wherever you listen. All those links also are at call your girlfriend dot com. Back with guy Branam, we're taking a journey of identity with him something he's been doing on his own for a long time. You may have noticed that. I've unusually large for homosexual. I'm not certain this is the case. My working theory is that wants my parents realized I was going to be Gabay figured they might as well, raise the largest one in the county. If they're not getting grandchildren out of the deal, at least they could get a blue ribbon. After high school guy went to UC Berkeley, it's liberal. It's near San Francisco. It's the perfect place to come out as gay and stop hating himself like society and Eddie Murphy told him to but he doesn't come out. Then it's on to law school at the university of Minnesota. I was far enough away from my parents that I wasn't having to manage their scrutiny constantly leg. I felt that kind of distance. I was just kidding said from my friend base. And so a lot of those things I had sort of put in place to to buoy me to make me feel better. Warrant their law school was clearly terrible fit. And it's it's not that. I was the worst at it. Or that? I really hated what I was doing. It was more just sort of realizing I was moving along path that wasn't right for me guy was enrolled in law school and being a lawyer can be a very good career. There are practical reasons to stick with law school. But there were no practical reasons to stay in the closet, especially when going online became so much easier than it had been. It's just the internet had gotten better and the internet getting better made it easier to talk to other gay guys and realize like it was not this horrible thing that that Eddie Murphy and the world had convinced me that it was like I knew gay men at at Berkeley. But they scared me and. I didn't know how to talk to them because it was both full of they were it was such a jarring reminder of what I hated about myself lake. They made me nervous sexually. It was just too much. But like in a nice chat room with people. I wasn't having to look at who. I knew couldn't look at me. I got to sort of leg explore and figure it out. And the thing is like once I did come out and start exploring the world. Minnesota was a wonderful place because it is a fun gay town and just the perfect size to not be overwhelming. It's not like I got shoved out of my door into Manhattan or West Hollywood like it is all of the best of the upper mid west sending fair there gay young men to Minneapolis to do their business. But it was like. Nice reasonable boys with with real jobs and also took me a while. But like I made some really good friends, and they started showing me like this is how you live a life. And then I ended up being far more focused on that for my final year of school instead of actually learning the law. Guy was having fun. So great news problem solved. But hold up sound of screeching, brakes problem. Not solved because there's still, you know, depression, vocabulary word for this next cut and Adonia, the inability to feel pleasure. I did not know how to move towards happiness. You know what I mean? Like the Antonio was real. It did lead to coming out only lead to more problems. Like, I was depressed. I came out. I got a terrible crush on a boy. I was very annoying and helix said stop it. And that like threw me into the very like real bad state that pushed me to then go to campus health services, get on meds stark owing to talk therapy and starting working through you like we as a culture spent so much time castigating, the gays and sort of make fun of us for behaving as though coming out is a big or heart issue. But it really is. You have to figure out who you are. I didn't know, and there are ways that that is deeply liberating. You're like that other that other person was just a shell. Now. I'm going to turn into the beautiful butterfly than I am. But I think the turning into a beautiful butterfly. And so frequently. Be underpinned with all of the self hatred, and and self negation that you've learned from years of being a closeted gave her. So what guy was facing? Here was tough in many ways. In fact, let's count them. One living in Minnesota after a lifetime in California. It gets down to twenty below here to depression, which can make you be little and hate yourself three accepting that he was gay meaning society will also do the belittling and hating for you for law school and five trying to figure out overall who he was and what he should do. What are the strangest things for me in my life? Is that gave marriage became an issue? It became a thing that we even contemplated. So late in my life that you know, I was an adult before I was like, wait. How would it work? If I got married and some people, I know just our relationship oriented are the marrying. Encouraging and sort of internalized rules from heterosexuality and said that those apply to me too. And there's good and bad that comes with that behaving as though we are just the same like run some risks. But for me, it was the very different thing of having say like, oh is this something I could do it never really crossed my mind. You have to figure out you have to make wrong choices before you can make right choices like, especially when they're just aren't structures there. What's the nice responsible way to be a gay guy having anonymous sex? I don't know the world didn't tell me. And so I had to find my answers. And you know, I took some big swings. At a lot of them were were messed up because also at the same time also having to figure out like it's it's not like I went into the loving arms of homosexuality, which which took good care of me. I went into a gay bar that was very ready to be like your fat and weird. We don't want you. And I had to figure out how to manage that. It strikes me that a lot of the things that you had to do at like age twenty three or so are things that society provides for people when they're sixteen years old that kind of struggle through dating, and and all this kind of stuff like you just didn't get a chance to practice and when deeply judgmental of queer people for fee figuring those. Things out at a different point in time. I remember one time a girl saying to me to the way they came in act in a pride parade like it just seemed so immature. She said thinking, I got really mad. When did you expect us to mature? I mean, the thing is we are buying large lake very responsible indisciplined thirteen year olds while you guys are being messes. I was obsessed with the fact that here I was twenty three year old man, there's having the problems of thirteen year old girl. And so when things I did is I went to thirteen year old girl culture like I reread. Are you there? God, it's me, Margaret, I reread the diary of and Frank which is the the only piece of culture from a tween girl that we have like. Yeah. That's authentic, and it may seem morbid to go to that to figure out what liking boys is like, but like that's a real part of her life as much as being trapped. Above a pectin factory is. With one huge part of guys life becoming clearer steadily aided by Judy Blume. He's era in on another challenge his mental health which meant overcoming some biases. I haven't been so scared of meds. Like, it was a period of time when we were really talking very critically about Prozac. It was late nineties early two thousands where everyone had been scandalised by Prozac is the most prescribed drug. And I I wanted to be in talk therapy since childhood, but like because TV was obsessed with talk therapy in the eighties. But you know, we didn't have the resources in, you know, people from working class towns aren't supposed to have issues that are complex enough to require therapy. I. Like, my depression was like, an her Donia and inability to experience pleasure. And then like being crippled to inactivity, by my preoccupation with flake certain problems that I thought I had and that also led to a lot of sleep problems. And first thing that happened is I went on drugs, and it was the wrong drug. And so I was sleeping like twelve sixteen hours a day. And I did that for like a month. And at that point like, I didn't understand how to fix problems. And so I went back to the psychiatrist and she was like how's it going on? I'm like, it's fine. I've been kind of lazy like what do you mean? And I told her that I was sleeping that much. And she was like. Stop taking that drug. That means the drug is wrong. Not you. And then she put me on Prozac, and it made my problems assize that I could manage learned lessons from being on Prozac like being on Prozac allowed me to look at a problem. And instead of having it be so huge that it was insurmountable that I would never get around it to see it as something that was more manageable that I could get around that I could pick up and put away, and it is a skill set that I have been able to take into my undressed life was that the first time in your life that life had seemed like that that life had seems like surmountable the obstacle like manageable. I don't know the answer to that. Because there were definitely times earlier in my life where I had felt crushed by aspects of my life. Like, I used my nice forty in defense mechanisms before that like, there were always things that were terrifying to me, and I felt that we're going to keep me from having a life that was anywhere way worthwhile. I just use various tools to not think about them. But then they would come from me. They would come from periodically. And this really was a different point of understanding. I could like. Manage them fit lake all that I didn't have to be trapped that like my life didn't have to be a game of being trapped and talk therapy. I didn't like, you know, it's the thing about going to campus health services. The lady wasn't great. She was not well positioned for me. But it also taught me what talk therapy was and I was contentious and difficult. And sh. I found my way because one of the things is like. How do you find agency in a moment of vulnerability like that? Like, I still needed to think of myself as a smart person as a capable person as a person who had self problems. But I was also in a condition where I had to yell out to the world. I need help. And I think I was thrashing around trying to prove that I could take care of myself in a way that was counterproductive. But also me. Guy learned a lot and volved a lot during law school. But the one part that he never really liked was the whole actual law school part of it still he graduated and he moved back to the west coast dubious of the legal profession. I when I went back to California. I mean, I guess I still kind of thought I was going to be a lawyer like I had that too grea-. I I didn't know how to think about my life. It was a process of change. What other really great things was coming back and starting stand up and the minute. I got on that stage. I had to know who I was. And declaring who I was and have a perspective. And it sort of forced me to behave like a sophisticated with a gay guy. It forced me to behave. As though I knew what I wanted. And I always like for my first year or so of stand up. I really didn't imagine that. I was just going to be a hobbyist. And that the young straight boys around me, we're gonna get to go off and be real stand ups. And this was just cute thing. I would do. But then I ended up getting a job guy was hired as a writer for unscrewed with Martin Sargent on TV and started making on camera appearances as the am Basseterre of gay. He's gone onto right for the Mindy project. Totally biased with W Kamau bell Chelsea lately. He does a lot of stand up, and he hosts talk show the game show on TRU TV, you said that you that you eventually went off the Prozac that had helped you so much when and why did you do that? I think that was a result of knee moving back and not having health care. You know, like not having health insurances and important part of the first five to seven years of comedians career. I also think like I felt like I was through that patch. And so I went off it. And then. After I moved to Los Angeles. I found myself so like three years later for years later, I found myself in a situation where some of the signs were returning that. This. This mindset was coming over me. And so I went to a psychiatrist and a therapist and got back on meds. And it's a thing I've done a couple of times in my life for like. I think you know, two years or so, and then sort of said to therapist, there's the psychiatrist like, hey, I think it's time for me to go off and see how things go. Well, if they're if they're working why not just keep taking them. Because there are ways that I have found. They can get in the way of what I need to do is stand up. I don't know if this is mentally unhealthy perspective. But like their ways that they can keep me a little too fine. And I'm not pushing myself to go out and do stand up as much I'm not generating as much material. I don't know if that is. A a false causation. But I know that the two most recent times that I said, I think I wanna go off the drugs was because. My like, I wasn't going after stand up in generating material as much as I wanted to be think, it's it's it's hard. Because also when I when I'm very depressed. I also do not generate stand up or go out as much as I should if you've listened to this program for a while you've heard people comedians musicians, all kinds of people talked about how meds help their creativity. Keep them stable and more productive and how going off meds actually kills their creativity. You've also heard a say you have to find your own way. And you've heard me say that I'm not a doctor, and it's best to talk to a doctor before making decisions on something. Like this. Now guy brand does a lot of work in entertainment. He hosts the game show. He wrote a book he writes for TV. But like a lot of comedy people. He sees himself as a standup. I remember my name is guy brand I am a standup comedian. But he keeps it in perspective. I don't think stand up is therapy. Stand up should be. Steph is not what happened to us today. Stand up as crystallization of your perspective on what happened to probably three years ago. For me. It is like working out. It is like eating healthy. It is. Thing that I do to feel whole and taking care of. Lanc? It is getting to be in the middle of. My skills my writing skills, my performance skills. My improv skills to to put all of them in one place in be able to use them as much as I can for seven minutes, twelve minutes now, or whatever it is. And. It's also. The time when you are on stage, you're in a different mindset. Like there is a different kind of writing happens on stage. There's a way that ideas just sync together onstage in a way that you didn't see them before. And it's it's lovely to get to be that person. But one of the really important things about standup because it is for me like from the first time. I did it. I was just like, yes. This is wonderful. I'm getting to like. Fully expressed myself. And you know, I'm somebody who really felt like he wasn't allowed to talk about the things that he loved or his perspective for a lot of of my life and third personally myself. Like, so it's wonderful that but one of the most important things that stand up is getting off that stage and being able to like go from, you know, the self-aggrandizement and arrogance of being in charge of the space and turning that off and turn yourself back into a person. Because when you come off your your head is all blown up in your all full of yourself and that can be dangerous. And so it's you know as somebody who can feel. You know, has felt very unimportant in his life. It is fun to blow up my ego for a couple of moments, and then it's important to Deflategate folded up and put it away. Guys book is my life as goddess journey through unpopular culture, pretty good. Especially enjoyed the part that connect the word goddess. He's on Twitter at guy brand the hilarious world of depression is produced by American public media. Our producers, Chrissy peas, Christina Lopez is our web and social media. Make it happen. Her Kate Mussa's, executive producer, recording engineer and technical director this time around John Miller theme song was written in performed by Rhett Miller. No relation and read plays in a band called the old ninety seven's and I liked him. Use it in red is nice. If you need help confidential help is available at the national suicide prevention lifeline, one eight hundred two seven three eight two five five it's free twenty four hours a day seven days a week one eight hundred two seven three eighty two fifty five the hilarious world of depression is supported by health partners and make it okay dot org. Make it okay. As a campaign to start conversations and stop the stigma around mental illnesses. Make it. Okay dot org has information that can help you and your loved ones starting that conversation can be awkward, but make it okay has tips on what to say and not to say stories of hope from people who've been there, you can take the pledge to make it. Okay at make it. Okay dot org. Hilarious world dot org is our web home. We're also on Twitter and come visit us on Facebook. A lot of great conversation happened there with your fellow th wad balls new shows being formed a good place to hang out on our next episode adventures in therapy, who can I get some reverb on that adventures in therapy. True tales of breakthrough moments awkward disasters and everything in between. I'm John mo- by now. Tell.

depression Minnesota California Eddie Murphy guy Branam Yuba City Brandon Judy Blume John Moe Sacramento San Francisco football Margaret YouTube Lanc Hopkins raspberry festival Lash Michael Strahan
Feeding NFL Titans with Charity Morgan

Generation V

1:18:29 hr | 1 year ago

Feeding NFL Titans with Charity Morgan

"Hey, guys and gals. Welcome back to the generation podcast brought to you by being finished dot com. Your number one source of evidence-based nutrition for peak physical performance. Now before we dive into this episode. I just wanna take a moment and say, thank you so much for listening and supporting this podcast, the feedback that you guys have given me has been overwhelmingly positive, and I'm so happy that you guys are enjoying these conversations as much as I have whenever I'm recording them now today's guest is plant based, chef charity, Morgan, chef charity is most certainly more than just a chef as many professional athletes will tell you, she currently provides vegan meal preps to several NFL players in his recently been featured in ESPN, highlighting her awesome, homemade meals that have encouraged athletes to educate themselves improve their athletic performance, as well as their overall health, chef charity is extremely enthusiastic about sharing her culinary expertise with the world showing people that doesn't have to be boring. When you go vegan. You can make these amazing dishes. Her dedication to the plant based life, healthy living, and commitment of food, and nutrition provide her with an unwavering motivation to teach and bring happy and healthy families to the table. Now, this episode has been made possible by my friends at four Matic. If you aren't familiar with the brand than you are in for a treat, particularly if you like coffee or tea like myself for significant a wide variety of SuperFood mushroom beverages ranging from coffee to machos too hot ca cow. You heard that right mushrooms now we're not talking about portabella mushrooms here. We're talking about highly nutritious mushrooms, like quarterbacks Chagas, lion's mane and Rishi, blends that not only tastes delicious, but they also help increase your endurance improve your cognitive function, reduce your stress and help you sleep. I've personally been using these elixirs for quite some time and have noticed a pretty big difference in my sleep quality and my energy levels in the morning, you can try some today by clicking the link in the show notes or using my discount code generation v at the checkout to get them delivered to your front door. What's up everybody? Welcome back to generation v charity, I'm so glad to have you here. You're such a amazing person, and we've met a few times, what was the first time we met actually, I was just thinking about that. In Toronto in Toronto. Yeah. Oh, crap. I forgot about that. I feel like I've known you for forever. I've known you forever because I've been stocking your page for many years when I decided that this is what I wanted to go on. And I would always showed my show, my athletes, your page when they were like, but what about muscle protein? I'm like they'll look at that look at this guy look at this. That's so funny. You know what I do? Remember that in Canada? That was one of the first things you told me you're like I show, everybody you and your girlfriend. I show them your cage. Yes. And to finally meet Jim person, I would like, oh, my God has muscles are really the real. They're not. It's so funny. But how are you? How are things going any life updates for us? It's great a lot of moving parts, and I have my hands and my fingers, and my toes in so many different areas. I have some cook cooking, quote unquote show. Type ideas, I'm doing a lot of conferences, a lot of a lot of things that's pretty much shedding more light on the movement that people like you of create it years ago. But didn't think that it's possible in such a magnitude of high profile athletes, bang in their body every day. So it's just more and more light be shed on. You know what I do every day? And I'm just so I'm so grateful that I get to be a part of it, and you're doing such amazing things to, I can't wait to get into that a little bit later. But before we get into. All the amazing things that you have done and are doing. Why don't we just let's start from the beginning because I think maybe some of my audience may not be aware of your story in kind of like your background. So I always like to start there just so they can get to know you and just fall in love with you. All right. So just tell me just just go ahead and tell me a little bit more about, like where you grew up, how you were raised in kind of how you ended up getting to the point where you are now. I was raised in a super country part of Sacramento, California. It's called a Yuba city. It's super like. Farmland like we had a farm. I literally watched my dad as a child slaughter cows all that. So to be where I'm at right now it's it's mind boggling, but I grew up in Sacramento, California in, in my teenage years, I moved to Los Angeles, California. And I did most of my growing up in, in the rest of the by adulthood in Los Angeles, where I went to school. I went to school at California school of culinary arts in. That's why shaved my Likud on blue certificate as a certified chef. And I'm doing the bed up version, then moved to Nashville Tennessee were, I met my husband eight years ago, and we hate his job is here as a titan is for the Tennessee titans in that. What brought me here. I've been here in LA still my home. I always of fly back every couple of months, but I'm here achieving things that I probably had to do here, first before I can tackle it in big city. So I had a purpose there and I'm living within that purpose. That's awesome. And I actually very familiar with you Basuki my old in my former career actually had some workup there. Why gosh, the city I know about you city. I've been there a few times it is pretty pretty backwards. Oh my gosh. It has backwards in the in the California since not backless had like the Mississippi sense. Yeah. Where people did when people think of Sacramento they think of life, it's super just big city life, and it's really not like that. It's a lot of Suburbans, and then you'd have your suburban areas and super country, farmland areas in I lived in all of those places but. Growing up. Like most of my, you know, elementary years, I was in the farmland area. Wow. And how did how did that, like, I guess how did that play out in regards to your diet? Where did you kinda like a normal traditional American diet? Yeah. I did I we ate a little bit of everything. My mom was my mom being Puerto Rican. But she always had my mom was like she's like the United Nations. She had friends from all different kinds of backgrounds, so I remember as a little kid, my mom in our Philippino, friend will be in the kitchen in there making Lopez in my mom and her Indian friend in our Indian furnace, teaching her how to make wrote the and then than my mom and her black friends by teaching my mom, how to make soul food is my mom was one of those people and I and I see that in myself as I cook where do you know as little Puerto Rican woman. She wanted a no entail his everyone's cuisine. She wanted to learn not only tastes. She wanted to learn how to make it and she would make. Soul food better than, you know, your grandmother, and your decide. How do you make this 'cause she would literally study it in learn how to make these things. So we ate a little bit of everything from seafood to meet to we had cows. And we had goats I had I had goat milk as a child, it was so weird. And then later on I had they discovered I had dairy allergies. So I remember as early as like five and up, I never had cows milk. So I would stay away from that stuff, because it, it whenever drink it, it'll just inflame me in, I will just get so sick. I never correlated it with everything else until later on in life. But yeah we ate everything. So if a vegan, we ate a lot of vegetables too, because we had a garden. So it was a little bit of everything. But you know as as you grow older in new. Get wiser new educate yourself on what they do to you. You you're, you're now I'm now educating my parents. Yeah. Isn't that funny? How like I don't know. I always find it so funny. We are product of their environment. In whatever household, we are raised in is typically, the, like, that's the lifestyle choices that we tend to take with us as we grow up. And then kinda like once we're able to think on her own kind of understand things on our own. That's when we kind of make the changes like around eighteen or so, like that timeframe is when we start to really like see the world from our own set alliances, as opposed to, like, how our parents raised us, which I which I find really interesting because I'm even teaching my parents still, even though I, I was raised in a vegetarian household, I still have to help them. They're not fully vegan. But I definitely like my mom is like just about their. She just needs some coaching every now and then but, but yeah, it, it's amazing that we can like help, you know, educate our own family, even though they, they did their best now. It's like our turn to take. The rains in just kind of help educate them so that they live healthier and longer as well. Right. Right. And with you. I mean, you're not a lot of people raised like you. So it's like even with your situation, you were still light years ahead of people and knows especially I find this in the south on Nubian from the south as well. It's year, not inheriting diseases. You inherit two choices in. That's why like every family get together. Usually your, you know, your holiday meals, they all look the same. And they've probably been looking the same for, for years, originally, generations and generations. And that's why everyone's like, oh my mom, and my dad, they both had heart disease and they both had, you know, high blood pressure, like, yeah, but they both ate the same things in it. When you start changing the way you eat. You change your your genetic makeup of disease. So I it's, it's a constant. Education that I'm always teaching people about disease in. In your generational. Curses, what I call them of what we inherited definitely. And like whatever your whenever your mom was cooking with all of her like, cultural, friends, did what were you in the kitchen with her? Yes. That's where I got my love for cooking. I I was always just zehr, like they would tease name. Call me my mom's shadow because I just wanted to be just so close to what was going on to where a bug my mom that crying fits on the Florida just help in sometime, a mom will just be like, okay disturb. The pot just to get the little, you know, I remember this at at three she would tell me like his earliest three, I would have meltdowns, if I couldn't help her and it's so funny because my daughter's three and she's doing the same thing. Like she's having meltdowns at she can't stir the pot or avid, salad spinner. She loves to like hit the top of it is just can't get all the water out. So I see that in my daughter, and it's so crazy. But I wanted to just grade the cheese at the time, you know, when I was a child next to my mom, I just wanted to be a part of that. And I think in I still don't know where with my love for food was for food, or was it because I just wanted to be around my mom, but whatever was cultivated this. Like a really long lasting love that a have for food. I just I love food. It's so weird. People shouldn't love food the way that I've loved food. It's, it's not even eating just learning about it, and people culture in, you know, I'm just like my mom if I meet someone, who's, you know, Philip Filipino or from Thailand, I start telling them about third cuisine and then, like, how, you know this. I'm like, girl. I love food. Why my Vietnamese friends. Are they, they say that I'm more being amazed than they are? So does this sort of this, this love for food and this affinity for cooking did it continue throughout your teenage years? And has that kind of what inspired you to get certified? He has. So when we were in high school, I remember, everyone will kind of pick a house that we would all congregate at, and we'll go to different friend's house, and they would say, I don't wanna go. Let's all lead there. Let's go get something to eat. There's no food here in unlike hold on. Let me go look. So I would look in the pantry and the refrigerators in icy all of this product, and I'm like, okay. You guys just keep playing cards. Are you guys keep doing what you're doing of a right back? And literally like forty five minutes later outcome. Out with a whole spread. I would cook in my friends kitchens, all the time in there. Like wait gritted. You get all this food. I'm like from your pantry. So I see food so differently than what other people see it as like. When I see food, I learn how to make things from whatever I have, and that I think came from being, you know, six kids, it's six kids in we were not raised with a silver spoon. We were raised poor always had of make men's with what you had in. So I learned how to make amazing things from nothing and to day, Derek, love one when his favorite thing that I make I make Asian style garlic noodles out of Rama noodles. Like. That was some. I was doing when I was a kid like I would make macaroni cheesy type noodles out of Rama noodles. People say, oh, my God. I've never had Rahman this way I'll throw away the packet, and I'll make my own seasoning and saute with soya sauce and garlic and sesame oil. And they're like, how I'm dislike you had all of this in your pantry. So that's what built my love in just my creativity for food is learning how to make something from nothing in that continued into my teenage years into my twenties. A good it to this day, people would say, there's no food or, and I go on their pantry and I do the same thing. So it was around twenty one whereas someone said, have you ever, you're just so good? At what you do. Have you ever thought of going coal nary school school? And the funny thing is, I'm just going to be transparent, like up in Yuba city. You never heard the word culinary. So when I heard that word culinary. I was like, wait what, what does that? And they're like, yeah. It's their schools is called Polaner's goal. And it was such a mind boggling thing for me that people actually went to school to learn how to cook. I just thought that you're blessed with it or you, you're either right? Or you were taught. And that's it like. Yeah. Like you have green is or you don't it's like, I that's how I categorize cooking in, when I found out about that I said, there's no question, this is what I'm doing. And I, I remember finding out about it in. I was within hours in that program, I think within thirty days, I, I that's how I was like, what are I I'm doing this? And that was the beginning of my journey of being getting just a certification in the credentials of it kind of already knew how to cook, but it validated me to other people not to myself, but other people in taught me methods in so many different angry. Idiots so much more. So so worth it. Well, so what is it about cooking that, like always draws you to it is the creativity or is it like kind of the communion of bringing people together to around food? What is it for you? That's a great question. It's, it's both. It's creativity, because I'm I'm super creative person, like I pay I can draw. I like I, I like to use my creativity in so many different areas of my life like I can design houses like crazy. Not interior. Decorate designed like my dad built houses. So I can literally look at a house in say tear down these walls. Let's build this put that they're like, in, I literally direct people when I'm building houses or doing renovations. How do you know how to do this? I'm like, I watched it growing up because that's what my dad did. So I just love creativity. But then there's another side of it. It's, it's my way of giving. In my, my brother, used to tease me growing up. My name's charity. And I literally live by that I'm always giving like always giving like to the point where my brothers and sisters and my best friends are like I hate that you're so giving people would come to my house, and they're like, oh, my God. This jackets. So cute. I love it, and it could be like a designer jacket that I spent like two thousand dollars on and I'm like oh, you know what I haven't worn had for years just take it like I'm super giving. So I think that when I was a when I seen, what giving someone an amazing meal does to them, and how it likes them up. That's what made me feel so amazing in like even when I'm cooking for my athletes. Some of these guys aren't yes or married or they have girlfriends, but there's some guys that are on my no plan that are single and they are not no one's ever from the town that you play. Football in, so their mom or their grandmothers back in Juneau, Florida or California or somewhere else in, they don't ever get home cooked meals. And when they their face lights up when I give them a whole cooked meal, they're just like omega us all my guys like they just get so excited. And I love that fillings. That's I can only imagine. Because I've had you're, you're I mean, I, I haven't actually you know what I don't think I have had your cooking. You see you haven't cater to any of the events that we've been at. But I've seen the food that you've cooked and I, I've definitely seen it in the game changers in every single time I've seen it my mouth starts watering. I see it on Instagram and social media, and I'm just like I feel like I've had it before because I have stocked, your page plenty of times. So I can only imagine what it tastes like in see the guys reactions you know, like I, I really do feel like food is a glue that brings people together and when it's quality food made with love and you know, not only made with love, but it's, it's like health promoting, so you walk away from it, and you feel good in. It's good for your body, and it's nourishing than it's like on another level at that point, you know, it's not food that you're serving that's going to, you know, gonna make you go find a couch afterwards. Or maybe if eat enough of it, you probably would find a catch it suck. It suck a spiritual blessing. It's like here and I and I, I find that to be confirmed. When I I remember being believers in Atlanta in one of the players that I probably have seen his face and shook his hand probably three times. We never had a conversation. It was just he was on the mill plan, Niger dropped off meal. With for him as well. And Derek ran into him at the gym. I wasn't there. He ran into a method Jim. He said, I really miss your wife's cooking. It's like wow. Someone that I really don't know. But he was on, I male plant in. That's all he thinks about his just can't stop thinking about your wife's cooking. It shows you that like food has a long lasting like a memory in your brain in it. That's why people use it to bring people together, no matter what differences you have or what your background is. If you put together an amazing meal in new, put a bunch of people together all that gets thrown out the window, and you descend talking about the food in what's positive about that moment. Not the negativity. Yeah. I wanna say, you know, the I think the sense of smell is like the strongest connection with memory, and that's probably why, you know, people tend to get. Emotional or have some kind of emotional reaction, when they think when they smell certain foods in it just brings him back to a certain place like you know, you think grandma's cookies, and all of a sudden you're a little kid again. You can smell grandma, you know making cookies for you. So I really do think that food does have a strong emotional connection. And if you can make that positive connection with food every time than it's like, kind of reinforces you to continuously coming back to those, those certain types of food, which may be why you know, it could be a good thing. Or could be a negative thing you know, depending on the type of food you're eating. So I think it's really cool that you in particular have been you're kind of known for, for kind of veganism being traditional dishes into those familiar foods that most likely players are most likely like used to eating like how they grew right. Yes. That is Michael because I feel that if you give people. That nostalgia that they were gonna always. They're not gonna think about the negatives. If, if they're having this, like, nostalgic, Lohman of okay, this fried chicken macaroni this smokey collard greens in this corn bread? And then you have banana pudding on the side or a peach cobbler in this is for my people that are southern and you're having all these different elements in. It's all vegan. You're not thinking about the negative, you know. The negative thoughts or the statements that you think of when you think of Dagan, ISM, because there are a lot lot of negative. Things that when you're not begin that people come to means they're like, but what about this? What about where are we going, so this, and that you're not thinking about that? You're thinking about this food that brings back a memory somewhere in at a certain place or are certain time. Maybe it was your mother, your grandmother or jer thinking of that moment of that's connecting with your brain. You're forgetting about all emotion. It's dead. It's dead brain connection in. That's what I thrive on on. So in order, most of the time when guys are like, yeah, try it. Or, or guys will say you know what I'm cool. I'm not I'm not doing vegan would do look like Eytan just vegetables. Like I hear so many things and I just go Kay. This is how we're gonna do this. I'm a cookie one meal on me if you don't like it, then Judas, get a free meal, if you like it, you're jumping on my meal plan. And they're like, okay bet it's nothing for them to lose their they. And then I start off and I asked him give me your top three Saderat recipes of all time as your mother made it your grandmother, made it. Your wife makes your tap threes. Now give me third top three and I take one of those dishes in vegan is it in that, sir, I quote unquote free meal, and they, it's never backfired only never. Yeah. I think I think that's such a good like approach in tactic to getting people in at least getting your foot in the door, at least to get them to try it. Right. Because like you said, so many people are turned off about, like, I'm not gonna eat vegan because it's just salad veggies, right? Or steamed veggies, but there's so much more you can do with it, especially with, like year skillset. There's like endless possibilities of what you can do with the amount of like options in ingredients you have in it's I mean to be honest, most of the flavor in everything comes from the herbs and spices. Right. Absolutely about all the time of like, have you ever had this, a piece of boiled chicken by itself? No seasoning, no salt, just water. Does boil it in there like? No. And if I if I did I probably wouldn't like it in the night, I give them I've had someone saying, I had I went to this restaurant, and I had vegan food it was horrible. I'll never eat vegan food. Again, I said heavy ever had bad fried chicken. 'cause I mean, let's be honest. Not everybody can fry chicken. The you'll see it on everyone's menu. But not everybody has a good fried chicken recipe. And they're like, yeah. And I said, so did you give up chicken? And they're like, oh, you got a point there. And I'm like, just you can't not eat anyone else's food, because you had one bad experience in that. If that's the case you should never eat fish, because I'm sure you have, you know, September food poisoning before from fish me, dairy something. So did you cut that? No, so to stop putting this plant based world in one box in Silliman upmanship in it off because that's not fair. It's not fair because you're not approaching everything else in your life, the same way. So I tell people all the time if you've ever had a piece of chicken that didn't have seasoning on it. You're gonna hate it. But with me like when I'm making these mills I'm using my strata folks, Antic Cajun seasoning. I'm using my Puerto Ricans spices in seasoning. So when you're eating it, you're not thinking about, you're not missing the me, you're not missing the deer. You're saying, oh my gosh. This tastes. Exactly. Like, what, what I want people? Yeah. I think you kind of nailed it when you said like the whole boiled chicken thing. I think that's the approach that most people use whenever they try like tofu for like the first time, they're just like open up the packet, and they're like, what am I supposed to do this? And then they. And they. Yeah, exactly. And then they eat it and it's like, oh my God. This is just like a sponge like a like a bland sponge with no flavor. And I always tell people might we'll duh. Yeah. Of course you gotta you gotta spice it up. You got to cook it. You gotta flavor it, you know. But most people, they're not willing to, I guess, or maybe they're not willing to, to learn, you know, maybe you don't get right to first time. Maybe you don't get right the second time, but like you know, you learn how to cook these things. So what was okay. First of all, let's go back. Let's, let's talk a little bit about your transition into going into into going vegan. And then what your transition was like, as a chef 'cause I feel like that's where a lot of people kind of go, you know, throw their hands up in the air because they've been cooking meet their entire life. And then once they. Once they go vegan. I feel like they feel restricted. And they don't necessarily know what to cook. Yeah. So walk me through your transition. And then how you transition as like, you know, your, your career kind of depending on this transition to if there's nothing else anyone that's listening. They can fast forward everything in I want the really listen to this part because it was very hard for me in the beginning. When Derek came to me, he said, okay, I wanna though plant based I every year as a NFL player. Let me back this up athletes in people like me, and my are always calling me my an alien. They are the most disciplined people. You whatever may in life. I am a normal person. I do not. I do not possess the kind of discipline and structure that these guys have. So I am I speak to pay able on a normal level. I'm not alien. I cannot eat the same thing, every day just to cut up muscle. Shred and shed and do all these amazing things. So when I talked to people, I talked to them on the same level Honey, I my body does not look. Why Bianca Taylor's my body? Not look like the so that's why I connect so well with people. So when Derek decided that he wanted to be plant basis because as an athlete, you always evolving. You're never saying at one point rather. It's you're gonna try and training session. You're trying a new. Method on how you train different. Temperatures of the Roman hugging sleep, and all these different things that athletes go through. This was a time it would he's going into his seventh or eighth year and he said, after much research in top into a nutritionist that he's gonna give up me in dairy. And I, I didn't look at him. Like how I looked at a Mike. I think that's cool. Yeah. And it was just like a moment of. Okay, this is one of Derek's moment. So let me just support him. So when he was on it for three weeks, I was like, wow. He's really fairies about this. This is starting to get real hard making two different meals for me in the kids, and then one for him, I said, you know what at the time I was having digestive issues as well. I said, you know what I I'm gonna do this with you. So when he decided that this is what we're going to do. And I decided I'm gonna. Join him I went to the store that day in ever forget, I bought like all these vegetables, I had every vegetable known to whole foods on my kitchen counter. I just bought a bunch of vegetables. I did not have any clue of what I was going to do. I said, hey, on an MVP now I'm just going to buy a bunch of vegetables and budget, tofu, and get your nutritional yeast and get your, you know, your, your typical Dagan items. I got home and pressure started. Weighing in on me my daughter at the time. She was one and she's doing sign language at e in at the time. Normally I could grab a piece of salmon, or some chicken in put some salt and pepper on it season. It real quick in Sierra in give her that in some like oven potatoes, in some broccoli or something. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is real. So what am I gonna do these kids ending the eat in? They need to eat fast. And I started like hyperventilating I had an I was having Zayda tech because I had no idea what I'm gonna do 'cause I I'm like, I'm a chef I don't have to research this. I'm just gonna get in the kitchen and do what I do. So long story short is after I I literally put my head down on the counter and I just started praying. I said, this is a journey. He wanted to go down. Please help me Julio me because I did not know what I'm doing. I really didn't know what I was doing. I was moving in playing the part, but I didn't understand. And solely what I should be doing and how I should be eating. So then. I got this like this huge like voice in my head that they said it was almost like very cynical like you stupid. Do everything you always do. Just use new ingredients. Take the made out. Find something for the me take the dairy out. Find something for the dairy, and I was that day I had this huge pithy and I was like, I got it, and I started taking clower broccoli and all these different vegetables than I black in them on the stove, and I made a black end of vegetable jambalaya, and I remember Mike. My daughter loving it. And I remember Derek going, oh my God. This is so good in what it did it sparked this part of my brain. That was like, I, I know what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna really make all Derek favorites that he loves to eat. But I'm just gonna veganism in. That's how I started on my journey of taking what I already in this fighting new ingredients for in this is why. Until, like your listeners. It's not about trying to follow someone else's Pat the being vegan. It's already your own path. So what you have to do is you have to one ask yourself. How do I eat? Because most people don't know how they say, I just ate normal boots, which normal food. What does that to you? Do you like spicy salty? You like a lot of citrus. Do you like fried foods you like bay foods and you collect all this data on yourself? And you say okay, I'm gonna make everything I already made. But instead of the chicken, I'm gonna replace that with cauliflower tofu or even a mock meat. I mean this isn't ten years ago. You had everything at your fingertips vegan is already out there for you. So it's kinda like a there's no excuses anymore. That's kind of how I started my journey of making the same things that people always love. But just taking the, the animal products out of it. That's so true. That's so true. I, I've, I've actually talked to several shafts and I've had a few shifts on the podcast. And they were also classically trained and used to work in steakhouses and everything else. And he the one particular ship 'em thinking of he told me the same thing he told me he's like, look you're going to use the same rubs you know, the same spices. And just make it work for fern alternate leg base. You know you just replace the meat was something else, and you can make whatever you're using tastes just as good as the meat itself because most of the flavor it comes from the spices herbs. You know, the texture might be a little like hit or miss, or like not exactly the same. But, you know, you get over that. And that's, that's the most important part that I feel like people don't understand is that they think they have to give up their favorite meals. They think that going vegan means that you're, you're giving up so much, and it's like, no, you're not giving up much. You're just like finding an alternative for it. And like you said nowadays are so many play. Land-based alternatives for chicken and steak even now like that. There wasn't available before announced becoming so widespread that it's even in fast food chains. Now you know what I mean? To try hard anymore. You go to frigging Carl's junior and get yourself a veggie burger. Burger King, a Burger King. Yeah, exactly. I think Burkey just came out with the impossible Walker, right. Yes. Yes. So it's like it's literally becoming everywhere everyday opened up my Instagram. It's like subway now in KFC KFC. But or maybe I did see is coming out with one. Okay. I thought I did see something about KFC, but I know I saw subway in their McDonald's Burger King Carl's junior. I mean. Call caller what you like, I mean, these are fast food chains. It might not be the healthiest thing, but it's like on a spectrum. It's a step in the right direction United. Even if it's like for, like immediate people are not the most health, conscious people anyway, going to eat at McDonalds and whatnot. But at least it's a step in the right direction for going plant-based economical, environmental perspective, you know. Yeah. An animal rights and animal ethics perspective as well. You know. My friends at thrive market have kindly provided an exclusive offer to the generation v family of listeners thrive. Market is an online, marketplace on a mission to make healthy living, easy and affordable for everyone. They offer the highest quality healthy and sustainable products available for every budget and lifestyle you can shop for thousands of bestselling organic and natural products at twenty five to fifty percent below traditional retail prices. The best part about it is that you can easily filter their selection of products by the values that matter to you, the most. That's right. They have a vegan filter to only display a huge selection of verified, the United States to make your shopping, experience, quick and easy. All you have to do is, visit WWW dot thrive market dot com slash generation v or click the link in the show notes. And you will receive in additional twenty five percent off your first purchase and a free month membership to the marketplace. Many of you will be making grocery run this week. So why not give thrive market at try and shop from your home? And everyone has their own reason on why they're going to walk down this path. And I tell people what is your reason, and I asked them and, you know, with athletes, or even myself let's be honest. Okay. The honest with yourself, not everyone's going to do for animal welfare. So or a or environmental reasons or whatever it may be. This is a very selfish generation that we live in. So I say you know as your point is someone in your pointing at things look at we're that dumb is pointing in this is what we're going to start. We're going to start with you. We're not gonna look at the animal welfare side of it. We're not gonna look at them environment side of it. And everyone's like, Bill, you are you teaching animal welfare? No. I don't need to teach that because we're all moving in the same direction. We're going to end up at the same place. My method is a little bit different. It's unorthodox to you. But this is what I have to do in order to help people in you start with yourself. Most people are living every single. Day was so much inflammation, even, you know, your quote unquote, there's a lot of vegans out there that are just eating so unhealthy because everything's processed and, and so many different. They're not even eating another green leafy vegetables. So I start with them. I'm like, hey, let's start with you. What do you want to achieve what your alternate goal, on, like health, and I start with the person, and then, guess what, as ERT eating that. Even if it's one military, a plant base, you're already helping environment just by that one major change your or ready helping animal wealthier from that one change. So for people that want to do for different reasons you just got to ask yourself. What is that reason in a mean getting that flavor is definitely out there? And I think that's why do such a good job at it because I was in the same boat. You two years ago. I know what meat taste like. I know what? A real Gumbo tastes like I know these flavors and I'm able to duplicate those things when you're cooking. So if you are still eating me, just think about it. Hold onto those memories of Paolo, those mills tastes in duplicate it by using plant based ingredients in me as a creative person would it did is just open up, this huge like a Ray of like this of ingredients in this role that I never thought I would actually be in just makes me so much more creative so much more creative, and people think about what they're losing. Okay. Let's go back to that the average person only eats anywhere between three to five Niks the I talked to people all the all the time. They're like, why don't eat red meat already. I just eat chicken, and seafood. Okay. So you're thinking about the two things that you're going to miss out on the two categories, which is poultry and safe food. But do you know that there's over twenty two thousand? Edible plants in the world. Think about what you're gaining not what you're losing. Yeah. That's such a good point at such a good point. It really is. Only like three or four, I guess, for the most part animals that are animal products meets, whatever you wanna call it that people tend to, to normally eat, because we are products of like a word like creatures of habit. Writes, most people same breakfast, every day, they normally eat like eggs, and toast, you know, whatever an-and like they go onto lunch and have like chicken burger chicken salad. So it's like it's really just about finding just like a couple replacements, and, and just integrating more plant based options in there. And like I really like what you said earlier, too, is like find the reason why you're doing it. Whether you're doing it for animal welfare or environmental or health reasons. Like it, doesn't it doesn't necessarily matter if you're eating it like we're all going to the same place, and whatever that specific reason is to you. That's what's most important, right? And I it's just important to understand that what. For the reason you don't have to sacrifice flavor in satiafaction and nutrition. You know what I'm saying? So that is kind of like the common commonality with this lifestyle, is the food. So it's really cool in, like, whether you're doing it for, for, for health, in particular, this is this is what I wanted to ask you in regards to Derrick is because Derek's big dude. I mean, how much does he way like to over two fifty right? Yes. Yes. He pick a play at two sixty five to seventy sometimes when he's on his chunkier side. Offseason side. But, like so whenever you transitioned whenever he transitioned into eating like, you know, pronounced leg fully plant based diet. I mean naturally, the foods that he is consuming less caloric dense. So did you have to increase the volume of food that you were cooking for him? It wasn't the volume. I just always made different varieties. So with the dairy as well as the players in, I think. If you don't know who I am. What I do I cook for NFL players. So I think that, that's the point that I think we I mean you talked about it off air. But we need to say that. Yeah, I forgot I it's pretty important. Part of this gas is that cook for, you know, predominantly NFL players who are six five to fifty plus absolutely it, you know, some of my guys at three hundred pounds. You know, my ding tackles are huge. So I find that within if I give them a bunch of different options, I get the complaints of all my guy, giving me too much food. So it's, it's not like with you. When you're, you're always conscious of completely shredding the body, you'd have to be very intentional on. You know what you eat, but with NFL players, they're burning full, many calories throughout the day. So, like, drink can't they could be burning a minimum of five thousand calories a day during camp because some players even more even more because during cabbages in August anywhere between July August, and it's blazing hot, the humidity's high in these guys are working out all day, long the burning tons and tons of calories. And you have to replenish, your body back in. In. But it's what are you replenishing it back with in for me? It's what does that look like they're still getting the dense mills? Like super dense knows it's not like what name I is eating when he's, you know, working on a competition, it's they're eating. You know, lasagna out throw in some a spicy, beyond me Italian sausages. And I'll make a lasagna out of that were a cream sauce in there eating, I'll do a they love this, a back to what things that you can do tofu. I'd name. I total. Simple as marinating it in choice sauce, or marinating it in hot sauce. Yeah. Marinated in hot sauce in then, like Panzer. Yes. Thank me later, because it only the outside of the, the outside is getting all that heat. So when you cut into it, it's not too much in the center of it. So it cools it down. And it's just amazing what you could do with that in out, marinated soya sauce than out smoke. It not make the guy's a smoke Caesar salad one. Other favorite things weird bespoke Caesar salad. The guys love it like they requested all the time, saw give him a smoke Caesar salad, some that lasagna, the super diz lasagna. And I'll do like maybe when a pasta salad or desert so they have different varieties of food in a lot of the guys tell me they'll eat half for lunch other half for dinner because I'm not. Only making a dense, as far as how much things that I'm cooking for them. But I do tend to give them heftier portions. And some of the guys have told me, look scaleback you're giving me too much, and I'm like all right, cool. I rather give too much than not enough, or they'll give the other half to their wife. Because arrived psycho, give make sure you bring your, your leftovers wives. What to be a part of the, the meal plan to. So it it just being for different needs, your, your, your food intake, is going to be totally different, but for me, I'll eat probably just the Caesar salad for lunch. And then out eat the lasagna later on for dinner, but in one sitting, I'm not gonna eat everything, but for the guys, it's different because they're, they're not your normal body type. No, not at all. I mean, these, these guys are monsters guerrillas, and I can only imagine the amount of food. They eat at one time. 'cause like I mean I feel like bodybuilders typically eat more than your average person. But it's very calculated how much those guys eat, especially when you're doing, like a bodybuilding show because it's almost like you're restricting your portions in order to, to cut way to look a certain way and get to a single digit Arnie fat. But these guys are not worried about getting on stage in having, like a stage ready physique, the NFL players are eating purely for function and for performance. So it's like they Tabas amid. Yeah, hi like it's so crazy. Some of the guys it's you can take care. Three hundred pound guy who was a detachable in one of my linebackers, my middle linebackers, who's probably like I would say to fifteen and he's. Five eleven that guy could out. Eat my three hundred pounds tackled so crazy. 'cause is metabolism is so high. And I every time I give its burger day, I'll get out. Do doubles for everyone. Everyone loves the double that I'd do double patties would double cheese and all your works, and then my three hundred pound guys, like one of them particular is like can you make minus singles too much food for halo way? I can't wrap my head around it. And then you have the middle linebacker. Who's to fifteen he's like, oh, let me have your other Patty, like you're, you're trying to realize what's happening. But it's a some of these guys are metabolism is through the roof that it's, it's unheard of. So walk me through what happened. When, when Derek started going started transitioning as far as like his athletic recovery in his performance. And then how this. Kind of spread into, like infiltrate the locker room with the other guys kind of getting on board with his meal plan and in how their performance kind of started to change as well. It started with Derek does bring in entered lunches, because I knew once I got on board and I got comfortable in nine knew my purpose was, and I knew how to cook, and what to do after tons, and tons of research, because I realized if it's good enough for an athlete than it should be good enough for myself and my two children as well. And I had to do so much research, but because I want people to understand my kids are plant based as well. We lived this life, it's not like only for the ads laid sin only for me, my kids are one hundred percent plant base, and I did so much research, because the last thing you wanna do screw up your kids in not give them enough nutrient, dense meals in things that are helping their bodies. So I had to do a lot of research because as a mother. I feel like that was my responsibility. So I, I knew that when Derek started back up he wasn't gonna have all the things that he's getting for me at the facility. So I said, you know, I'll just send in his meals, and I started sending Derek Carr's mills. In every time he popped open those containers guys were like whoa. What is that in asking questions because my food looked better than what they were? They were like wait. That's all vegetables. That's, that's me. And he was like, yeah. And then it sparked a question, you know, all these guys eat together. It was when lunchtime, most of the whole team is in there, so they started asking him why in he would say, you know, gave him his reason why like I wanted to cut down inflammation and get better sleep in allow my body to recover faster and all these amazing benefits and guys were like, okay, they're listening at the, the benefits, but they're looking at the food like debt is looks bomb. Like literally God to say that looks insane. So Derek protects me, like I remember the first day I sent him a meal, the very first day, I remember what I made him. I made him a black bean in sweet potato enchiladas. He expanded rise in slow cooked Cuban black beans, any at all this in front of and yet aside, sell it, what I. Always included a Sitel that was Derek thing I always want. A salad before. I eat. Because it helps with digestion. So that was his little weird thing that he had. So I made sure I incorporated, that with the guys as well in, it'll be fun in Odal have like AAA vinegar rats and all these different things. And he's eating this in the guys are like, hey, do you think charity would make a meal for me to bury first day that he sent I sentimental? I got one client and that one client, you know, when you're human certain guys play at a certain level, and they have all these guys underneath them that are always looking at what they do. So when I got that one guy, which was Gerard Casey, all these other guys was like why I wanted to. Automatically first week. I have four guys or guy, and I'm my doing it from the kindness of my heart. Like, hey, I'm just making, you know, these meals because it's it's honestly easier for me to cook for four guys than it is for just dare. Of course it's like when you buy ingredients it's, it's better to patches to just make a big bet. And I was like, oh, God. I have a business on my hands. Like what am I doing because by week two it was subscribes week three seven guys and it just kept going and going and going, and I think what it was was watching the guys that were sitting back watching the first guys do it realizing that they're not passing out on the field. This is during camp guys. This is during camp. When Gaza working out, it's a lease. A hundred degrees outside shooter humid here in Tennessee. In the working out all day long. They're doing drills and the realizing that Derek is not passing out. And he's like Visco again. Let's go gin in his energy is through the roof in the onlookers are like way, hold on. Hold on. Not only does a food look good. He's not passing out. He didn't die on the field and his energy is through the roof and he's making plays like he's playing at a really top level. And that's when I started getting more guys more guys is funny because the guys that were sitting back going, you guys are crazy. And you guys are eating like rabid than O'Hare haircuts Derek and his bird food, and we had so many like inside jokes at the guys had for Derek in the guys that were eating vegan. It was so many, jokes, or some of them were too to inappropriate to even share. Fair. They had all these jokes. Those are the guys that literally by. Maybe by a month or two month and a half in that were coming to me, saying, hey, can I try to and particular guy? I said, hey, do at the time we was what the hell that was helping us. Go watch. What the hell? And after he watched what the hell his wife called me not him. His wife called me and said, hey, by the way, Wesley has an eaten in twenty four hours. And I'm like, wait. What do you mean? He hasn't eaten in twenty four hours like yeah, he's eating smoothies. Unlike wait, hold on. Why he's like she's like I told him eating these jump on charities mill plan. But he's being too prideful. And I'm like, all right. I got this. I just sent him a meal for free hated. No, it his wife knew it. I descend it was I try to sell. It was out. God, that was so bum. And from there it was like I hadn't. And he ended up being the most greediest person when I talk about that middle linebacker that was him and he posed jokes. And he is the greediest person to wear out did seven o'clock text word site. Hey, charity. Have you ever thought about big Nagin is miss? He was like the person that was challenging me the most I come in at me, telling me what I should begin is and things that he wanted to eat. But he was our number one enemy two months ago. Funny, isn't that funny? They some of those like, the most I dunno unlikely people are the ones that turn around and become like the biggest proponents of it, where I remember being at Super Bowl being on doing a couple podcasts at interviews in Atlanta in this guy, if that plays for another team was literally telling me. Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. Wesley was just telling me that I need to be, you know, think about eating more plant based in that he's plant based, and, you know, I'm big about it, and he has no idea that I'm the chef that is cooking him as plant based meals. He was like, yeah, keeping in about this plant based, what do you think about it? I'm like so do you know that? That girl cooks. The meals for Wesley like, no get out. So it's just amazing to hear that people were so passionate about it that they're sharing it with the world in. It's coming back full circle. And I'm like, yeah I'm the chef and he's like, oh, you're that girl. And I'm like, yeah. But he never put to into together into us talking. So when you when you walk down this road you love it. You love all the benefits to where you start sharing in. I'm seeing that over and over again. Not only that, too, right? Because the if I'm not mistaken than that was like the year. When most of these guys adopted the plant based diet is like the first year they made it to the playoffs. I mean the defensive unit was like you know, they're most productive output in. Yeah. It was ever like it was insane. Like the last time we performed at a level like that was fifteen years prior while and so showed like it was this, like a gift that God gave us, it was like year. I'm just want people to understand that you can be like this in, you're not gonna decline. You're not gonna be like on a stat level. You're not going to be at the bottom in the NFL world in the funniest thing is Dirk first year being plant based he was on the team Derrick Pitts hit his stats come from sacks. He had the highest sax on the team that year. Wow. So she'll people like get out what ever you thought it was. I'm showing you on paper because numbers don't lie what it can do. And that's like, that's I think that's so interesting too. Because like when you are at that level of performance. I mean you're talking about just micro like fractions of a second. That make that make a difference between you and the guy next to you or the guy the depth chart that's waiting to take your spot. And like, the, the, the lifespan of like NFL players are like what one year or two years max, the year if you reach three years, you've already broken that stat the statistic, so you can even get to three years. You're you're doing better than one percent in for Derek to be at nine years now. It already let you know, everything that you've ever been told has been a lie. Yeah. And I mean, that's it's amazing because like I'm surprised that most like athletes, aren't like looking into this deeper because like when you're when your livelihood depends on that. And you know how you perform and just being one step ahead of the guy behind you. I mean this is like a huge competitive edge. I mean your, your recovery time is is better your energy levels are higher. You know, your outputs or greater so it's like it's a no brainer. If your professional athlete light put your ego, aside, stop, Lino, regurgitating, what you, you know what you've been taught your whole life and try something new as just purely. Look at it as a competitive advantage. You know, most guys are willing to do all these crazy things. You know, all these crazy tactics are willing to go into cry Otake. They're willing to do whatever it is necessary to, they never look at their diet, you. They never looked at it, and I find it funny that like egg during that year. After Derek completed his his first year ban. One hundred percent plant based I, I was literally, an Uber in a magazine in the car in I was in LA in. It said Tom Brady finally speaks out of what his competitive edges on other players any finally for the first time in years talks about that. He's he he, he consumes a plant based diet during season. Now what he does on his offseason. Don't know. I know one does it really truly. No. We know that in. During the NFL season, this is what he's mailing eaten his plants, and he talks about it in this magazine, and I remember screen shot, the taken a picture of it insane. Wow. We if finally helps us out like. Thank you. It's in it's like the one of the greatest quarterback of our time finally talks about look. I'm not patchy pounding down steaks chicken. You know all those meat in, you know, weight protein in order to, to have a competitive edge. I'm doing everything opposite. So if that did open up a lot of athletes ours. I don't know what, what will in. I just feel like it's just you just live in this world where you're completely closed mind close minded in. You're not open minded to other facets in other abilities of getting your body to where it needs to go in just a lot of it is pride. A lot of it is straight up pride. I'm I listen guys and I'm just like what you know, it let me know how that works out like I'm talking to you in, in a space of my husband's been in the league for nine years, let me know if you even get to three in. We'll have a talk talk about this, and I have to be really like I have to get to. Where I'm just like I'm done talking because you're not talking to them. You're talking to their pride and you're talking to their generational curse yet. It's. I, I remember you or maybe it was Derek when I was talking with them saying that you almost had to keep it a secret from, like the management team management because they didn't want him on the diet. Or they thought it was like going to hinder his performance or whatnot. But then, like can you talk a little bit more about that around, if you can't or not? Yeah, I can I don't care. I don't get open book, so the NFL is like this and a lot of the players, they only want to do with the NFL allows them to do. They go completely by the book in sometimes that works for you. And sometimes it doesn't but I find that the guys that are really thrive in playing at a level where most guys aren't is because they're, they're looking for recovery in therapy outside of the, the, the, the building in it's to me. It's Accenture conflict of interest, if you think about it, like the trainers nutrition, everybody is under. That umbrella of the team. So they're not looking for the what your you know, would best for you because at the end of the day, you could be cut tomorrow. You could be released you could. It's of a world is so crazy. So you always got to, you know, be political, but you have to do what's best for you. And at that time, the guys would that were eating plant based, they were getting a lot of kickback. They the team wasn't happy about it. I literally said you know what after death person I knew that this was for good. Like, when we started eating plant base, it wasn't like, oh, I'm, I'm vegan. I'm going to go vegan. It started off as a let me try this out. But then once we realize how good we felt there was no way going back when you realize what your body is supposed to feel like when you wake up every day, how God designed it, you will know that into you take the shit out of it, and you go, oh, this is supposed to think this is sound supposed to fill and natural. We came to that we came to that moment of going while I feel great. I, I don't know if I can go back, and I remember saying, okay, let me just schedule meeting with the teen in talk about food choices and I didn't go at it. In a way of this is what you guys should do. I win win at it at a way where I had to be very political because I had to combo myself, and I know that I'm going up against big giant. And I and I went up an I came to them with this objective of how can I help you? How can I offer my services to you? I'm here to help whatever that may be. I you know, I have the I am reaping the benefits to I've been on the team now at the time, I think it was after the first season, I've been on the team now for eight years in, I wanna see us win. How can I make us win? Instead of offering this service to like, you know, thirteen to fifteen guys can I come in offer my services to the whole team? And the response I got was unreal. It was like, will this is what the guy told him in this is when I knew I was not getting anywhere. The guy said, why didn't I didn't know what a chickpea was into a two four months ago? And I was like somebody, he liked the management of this. Yeah. This was the guy that en-, head of catering. So. He is. He is what if he believes it should be in the building. It's going to be in the building. So it already let me know that. He's not open to the whole plant based world in be due the ignorance should've just because you don't know what a chickpea is that means that the team shouldn't have it. What does that mean in this, let me know that he's not open in it was more of a like I kept hitting brick walls with him. He was we don't even have a kitchen. So I said, okay, so would if I opened at even once a week plant based catering style to the team. Well, the sweaty told me, well, if I opened that up to your guys, then I have to open up, so many different. Other ways of died, you know, diet choices in, in there, so many different new diets coming out every day than it would just be so hard for us to keep up. And I just said offer. Hiring plants in a plant base. Wave eating to people, not a diet in. It's not a fad. He called it a fad. It is opening up more nutritional options. And I said, what if you eat if you feed players at a warrior lever it level in your given the rate amazing ingredients to sustain your muscle in your body. You're gonna get a better output. And I looked at him. And I realized that it wasn't going anywhere. It's okay lettuce. Let the titans be the very lasted everything. What we watch. You know, Tom Brady, literally rave in about a plant based diet in why he has purple carrots in how amazing does for his body. And we see all these other teams daft into this, but we're not we're just going to be the less. We won't be the innovators in this in in this field. And I just walked out. I was like, all right. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. But no. Thanks in, if you guys ever wanna try my plant based meals, I'm here. I was still politically correct. In had my smile on my face that I realized that they weren't going forward. They want it to save money. They wanted to keep things how they were. But the funny thing is when Derek went back. He said, guess what they had a plant base of vegan sausages for breakfast option. And I was like, well, aren't we getting somewhere? He was like active. They listen but they did it listen but they, they had to appeases because at the end of the day they seen that, the guards are going to eat, how they wanted to eat, no matter what and I'm pretty sure that, like, although they may have like nutritious on staff and, you know. You know, I don't correct me from wrong. But, like, I don't know how much nutritional programming goes into their, their catering events or their, you know, the team catering because I remember Derek saying it was like food trucks in this, like, you know, whatever was available. I even like read an article that says, like, you know, it takes like six hundred pounds of beef to feed an NFL team for a week life or seven hundred pounds of chicken and fish like these guys are demolishing, you know, these these animal products and replacing it I mean it should be cost saving at the end of the day. If you look at it that way, not only cost saving, but it's like potentially gonna pay itself off in dividends in their performance. So to me, it's a no brainer. But I could see how the you know, the lack of education in regards to the plant based diet could have people apprehensive but people like yourself, Derek these, these innovative thinkers, Tom Brady that. Are that are kind of infiltrating this archaic system and producing change and producing positive change regardless of any kind of dog Maddux approach to veganism? It's just like like this is the the performance aspect of it. And this is why we should do it in these are the benefits of it. And I think that's incredible. I think it's incredible. The way of spreading this message you have to because I mean, it's, it's not the big giant that are doing the work, and I find that it's easier for me to talk to college kids about plant base in young and a younger audience than it is, like our mothers in our fathers, because in these are the people that are in charge of like, arcade. Ring in these are the people that are, you know, signing the dotted lines in making the rules and in what goes on in these facilities. She have to think about it. They're older, you know, your baby boomers, and they're not quite educate. In this area because they are just creatures of habits in light. It's so much easier for me to talk to my nieces in my nephews that are now like twenty one and nineteen about going vegan, where I have two nieces right now that are those ages in their begin than it is for me to talk to my own mother, who has go bladder issues liver issues. They're just like this is just what we eat. You know, in, you know, my grandmother lived to eighty eight pork because she did this. She did that. I find that it's way easier to talk to her younger generation because the older generation is all stuck in their ways that they're not trying. They're not trying to do anything different. And I find that that's a common thing in the younger. A lot of the younger teams that are out there are making the innovative choices in. I mean, I know that New England Patriots have a lot of plant based options at their in their facility because. Tom Brady alone. It's not because a Bill or anyone else's because Tom, so it's being those, those players in those quarterbacks and people that are very instrumental in the team would make decisions in demanding those those, those changes because it's not happening from the top down. It's going to happen from the bottom up, and we just have to remember that in it is viewed I did a way games in the day of a game. The guys lead with Papa John pizza boxes after a game, the BUSTER ass for hours in hours than they tore their muzzles down beat their body up in their walking away with Papa John's pizza box. Now that might net. That's not all teams. I know that for a fact that runs on every all all throughout the NFL. That's that everything. But that is here in Nashville. They walk away with that. In sometimes for. Away meals, they're having bojangles or Chick-fil-A. They are not. It's not about help. It's about how to feed crowd at the cheapest you know, capacity as, as they can. Thankfully, and hopefully, the, the changes continue, and we can keep making like small changes in eventually, it'll catch fire in it'll become a new standard for performance in. I, I really think that is kind of trending in that direction, you know, although a majority of the press for, for vegan items in food is typically centered around like the meat based alternatives. When you when you really see it in the press, it's like, you know, fast food chain releases being option, even may not be the healthiest. I think that eventually, it'll kind of like that craze will kind of stabilize. And then people will start to really see the benefits of a purely plant based diet in performance sense. In once it catches on by the top athletes than is just going to be, you know, from the top down people are going to start to implement at high school kids, middle school kids, and they're gonna send me so. Much more open to the idea. And then the hard work is done, you know. Yeah. Venison is the influencers. It's exactly like you. It's people like, you know, beyond say, urgent her twenty thirty million followers. I mean, three hundred million for however many she has, hey, go vegan. I mean it go vegan for this month in in. That's what we have to do. We have to. It's not about, hey, go, vegan overnight, and I have to tell people this all the time most of you don't even have what it takes to be an athlete. I'm talking about DNA and disciplined, but you can do what you can on your level like me. And I'm putting myself in that category. Because that kind of discipline is unreal. But you can't do what you can do on your level. In is say that to say do a one militate duo once a beat list Monday. In, then what you feel like oh I could do this. Then let's make it a meatless Tuesday in. Just continue to grow. But if you're not growing within your own spectrum of will you are the wood, are you in what are you doing? Because even me that I'm one hundred percent plant based on always trying to grow. Sometimes I want to say, hey, while, do this, where I'm like, I'm just gonna eat a whole weekend, worm, eating one hundred percent raw vegan, or I'm just doing a or just juicing, or I'm just going to do, I'm cutting out we in cutting out potatoes, because I can eat a I can eat French fries any day of the week. But I'm always challenging myself, and I just feel like the takeaway message, isn't go vegan. The takeaway message is or go plant base, or go, what I call it is go plaguing. I say that to say just challenge yourself in make yourself, just constantly grow don't to say this place. This is where my mother was in my grandparents were you don't wanna be your parents, don't even want you to be who they are. I am. Children. I want them to be better than me. So this constantly growing in figuring out ways on how you could do that. Even if it's a once a week thing or one militate thing, you're going to do so much for your body, the environment, and well, animal welfare in you probably don't even care about those two latter parts of it, but it will do so much for yourself. I can't I can't think of a better way to end this conversation. That was that was awesome. So how, how can that first of all, thank you so much for, for agreeing to be on the show and talking about all this stuff? I find it really interesting, I think listeners will to how can how can our listeners find you or get in contact with you or follow you. Where can we go? I g chef charity Morgan. My website is the same chef charity, Morgan dot com. I haven't updated it in a while, but I'm very instrumental on Instagram. Always schilling. What I'm what I'm cooking out show in my stories brands in different things that I do like a little bit crazy. I have my own approach, but you can find me there in my Email is also on my Instagram page so you can reach out to me, if you have any questions, I'm here to help. I pretty much answer all of my DM's in all of my emails because I want to help people what I do. I just don't do it for NFL players. I do cook for other celebrities, and I do help people out on the daily, so yet, that's we can find me. Awesome charity. Thank you so much. I just want to say thank you for being a positive light in this world and help and making a difference. Since in so many different ways in, I really appreciate what you're doing. So thank you. Thank you so much name. I okay. Guys, if you wanna listen to the show notes of this episode and find more episodes. Don't forget to begin fitness dot com slash generation v or you can find us on itunes and everywhere else, you can find podcast. So thank you so much for listening until next time. Hey guys, thank you so much for listening to the generation v podcast. I hope you enjoy it. And I really appreciate you taking the time out of your day and making an effort to live, a happier and healthier life. If there was anything mentioned in this episode that you want to revisit, you can find it in the show notes over at beacon fitness dot com, while you're there, if you join the mailing list, you will also get exclusive discounts free workouts and vegan recipes you can also follow me at Instagram where I also post recipes motivation and daily workouts. And of course, I would love it, and really appreciate it. If you left me a positive review on, I tunes, but most importantly, I really ask you guys to share this with one or two friends that would really get something out of this particular episode. Thank you so much.

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MYSTERIOUS DEATH OF: The Yuba County Five

Crime Junkie

1:01:30 hr | 5 months ago

MYSTERIOUS DEATH OF: The Yuba County Five

"A Florida police diver determined to escape her family's notorious history of drug smuggling and treasure. Hunting is the target of deadly conspiracy. That brings old secrets to the surface. Now she must put her faith in an unlikely ally in order to expose the truth before her enemies can pull her under Wall Street Journal bestselling author Andrew Main returns with adventurous new thriller. Read the girl beneath the sea today at Amazon Dot com slash the girl beneath the sea. Podcast high junkies. I'm your host Ashley Flowers and I'm Brett and so excited to tell you today's story because it's truly one of the most baffling unsolved mysteries. I've ever come across. I mean last month on my other. Show supernatural with Ashley Flowers. I told all of you. The story of a group of nine Russian hikers who died under very mysterious circumstances back in nineteen fifty nine that well known story is referred to as the love pass incident and today's story is not much different. This is the story of five men who set out together to watch a college basketball game in Chico. California back in nineteen seventy eight but instead of coming home as plan they drove seventy miles in the wrong direction. North into snowy mountains and then vanished. This is the mysterious case of the Yuba County. Five imaging wear woke up with a start at about five. Am on February twenty. Fifth Nineteen Seventy eight. She didn't know why but she just had a bad feeling when she'd gone to bed the night before her son. Ted Wasn't yet home for the night he'd gone to a basketball game in Chico. California with a few friends. It was about an hour away from their home in. Yuba city but she expected him back from the fifty mile. Drive around eleven. I mean maybe midnight at the latest if they decided to stop for a bite to eat or whatever on their way home she knows the only way to calm her nerves is to make sure that Ted is home and in bed where he should be but when she gets to his room she sees that the bed is empty in a low key panic at this point she decided to call Juanita Sterling whose son Bill had gone to the same game with Ted. The night before need tells imaging that her son didn't come home either and that she's actually been up since two worried sick she's already called. Jackman. Drew his mother Melba. Who said the same thing? No sign of her son Jack. Either imaging hangs up and calls Jackie. Hewitt's mother and Jackie's mom says the same thing no Jackie Imaging Center daughter-in-law down the street to talk to the stepfather of the last boy. Gary Matthias by the time the Sun was coming up. It was clear that all five boys were missing. Imaging tries to relax but relaxing is impossible. She knows in her gut. Something is very wrong and she knows that for two reasons burst her son. Ted was scheduled to play in a basketball tournament later that day. Saturday the twenty fifth and to say that he was pumped. It'd be a huge understatement. He laid out his clothes washed shoes and even talking nonstop about this big game winning. It would get his team a week long trip to Los Angeles. He would not miss that game or anything and imaging nuit now. The second reason she knew something was wrong is because Ted's life was very scheduled and very predictable. She knew that he would not had not would never just randomly stay out all night. Ted Always came home and Jackie Jack. Bill and Gary were no different now. I need to stop here and tell you one important thing about these five boys. They're often referred to as both ways but I mean they're not really boys yes like. How old are they? Well for starters. The youngest was twenty four and the oldest was thirty two but their parents and families and the people in their community always referred to them as boys because all five men had intellectual disabilities of some kind. They were all enrolled in this day program for adults their basketball team gateway gators is actually part of that program and all five of them lived at home with their families now physically. They were all healthy very capable and while none of them lived independently most of them function at a relatively high level imaging son. Ted was thirty two and the oldest of the group. He worked for a while as a janitor and as a clerk at a snack bar but at the time of our story he didn't currently have a job. Ted had a heart of gold and he loved to make new friends. He's kind of describe law as childlike. For example Cynthia Gorny wrote a piece for the Washington Post back in nineteen seventy eight and she says that Ted would wave to strangers and he was literally be heartbroken for hours. If they didn't back now. Ted was closest to the youngest of the group twenty four year. Old Jackie Jackie was the most severely disabled of the five. He spent most of his childhood actually in the Napa State Hospital which back then was called the Napa insane asylum. He couldn't read or write or even dial a telephone and he relied a lot on his mother and also his bff Ted now. Jackie was really shy and didn't like being away from home for very long. Definitely not overnight which is why his parents were so worried about him. The Third Man Jack Madrid Aug was thirty and while he to lived at home he was pretty independent. He graduated high school and it spent two years in the army but was said to have had a low. I Q he was one of the only ones in the group that had a driver's license and he had this like nineteen sixty seven turquoise and white mercury. Montego that he was like so proud. I mean God I love his pride and joy and it's actually the car that took the boys to the game and Chico that night now. Jack's closest friend in the group was twenty nine year old bill stirling who left his house that night with fifteen dollars and four different maps of the California area now. Bill had worked for awhile dishwasher but his mother insisted he quit when she found out people were getting him drunk stealing his money at work. They were really taking advantage of him now. Finally the final guy we have in this group is Gary Matthias. He was twenty five years old and a bit of an outlier in this group of guys because he worked for his father's gardening business and before that he'd been in the army like Jack but he was medically discharged due to a psychiatric issue. Unlike the other guys he didn't actually have an intellectual disability at all. He was actually diagnosed with schizophrenia. Had been stable for the last two years. No one is really sure how or why Gary got involved with the gateway projects but he loved it especially their basketball team the gators and he really enjoyed hanging out with the rest of the guys so anyways these are the boys that were talking about these young men. Ted Jackie Jack Bill and Gary and they're all missing. Saturday comes and goes with no word from the boys so finally at eight that evening their parents decide to call the police right away. The sheriff's department puts out an alert asking for the public's help locating these five guys. Big Give a description of Jack's Mercury Montego along with the license plate number but they don't launch into their search right away according to a Sacramento Bee article from nineteen. Seventy eight at this point. They're kind of just watching. I mean remember. These are grown men and while there folks say that it's out of character for them not to come home like the police are a little bit skeptical right but they're alert is an out long when information starts rolling in. They're able to confirm that the guys went to the game in Chico and as a bonus their team actually won. The last known sighting was at a convenience store and she go after the game. This is like just before ten o'clock that night according to the clerk and the clerk says it was memorable because ten. Pm was closing time and the Cork was a little bit annoyed. That these five guys were pulling in right at the end of the night. You know. You're getting ready. Your closing up and the clerk says they buy a bunch of like junky snacks. Candy bars chips that kind of thing and then they left. That's it police. Get another call from a woman who says she saw the guys on Saturday or Sunday. But here's the thing that's interesting. She says that when she saw them they were in a red pickup truck. She said two of them came in to buy food at her store while one went to a phone booth to make a call and the other two state in the truck. But here's the thing I mean beyond this mystery red truck that they're seen in the store that she runs his way up north and like way off the course the boys would have taken to get home from that basketball game so initially police kind or rule out this citing thinking that it's probably not there guys but just then they get a call from dining joe and joe says hey. I think I saw those guys that you're looking for on Friday night. I was driving up this gravel road toward my cabin in the mountains and my car got stuck in the snow and I get out and I'm trying to push it free and in all of this I start having a heart attack. Joe Goes on to tell police that he gets back inside his car with the engine running and the heat on and after a few hours like this sometime between like eleven. Pm and midnight. He says that he starts to hear a whistling sound. So Joe gets out of his car. He looks down the road back behind him down the mountain and about one hundred and fifty feet away. He sees headlights. And what looks like a group of men along with a woman holding a baby? He says they're all outside the car and he can see them in. The glow of Car's headlights now. Joe was so happy to finally see people. I mean he needed help. Get my God. This guy just had a heart attack so he goes running out of his car tries to flag them down but he says that when he called out to the group the headlights turned off. And all the noises stopped. But that's not the end of his story. He tells police that some time later he again sees lights out his car window not headlights. This time but flashlight beams. He calls out again for help but as soon as he does the lights. Go Out Again. And whoever was out there goes away? Police are understandably pretty skeptical about this whole story and honestly they don't really know what to make of it. They wonder if maybe this guy was seeing things or hearing things or I mean both I mean he did just have a heart attack us in the middle of nowhere on a mountain road alone the dead of night I mean. What are the chances that he'd come across a group of men and a woman holding a baby? It just didn't seem logical but Joe tells them that when his car finally ran out of gas after running for hours and hours he gave up on being rescued and decided to take his chances and walk down the mountain for help now along the way in the place where he had heard the voices. He passed an empty car. It was stuck in snow just sitting there in the middle of the road. Police asked him to elaborate on the car and when he does all skepticism washes away. Today's episode was brought to you by Brooklyn so there are few things I enjoy more than sleeping in. 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They're Memorial Day event. Kicks off this weekend and you do not want to miss it easier way into summer with big savings on sheets bedding towels lounge wear and their newest. Hamama linen collections. And if you can't wait you can get ten percent off your first order and free shipping on all new sheets right now when you use Promo Code Junkie only at Brooklyn and Dot Com. That's B. R. O. O. K. L. I. N. E. N. Dot Com Brooklyn. Everything you need to live your most comfortable life. Joe Tells Police. The car he saw was a thousand nine hundred. Sixty seven turquoise and white mercury MONTAIGUE THE EXACT CAR. The men were driving not long after they hear from a US Forest Service worker. Who Says Hey. I think I found the car that you guys are looking for. And it's way the heck up in Plumas National Forest. Where is that in location to like everything else in the story so the Plumas National Forest is in northern California in the Sierra Nevada mountains? It's about two and a half hours from Yuba city and two hours from Chico. And actually you know what it's easier just show you here. Take a look at this map. I just sent. Okay Yeah so the three points we've been talking about it kind of makes a V. Shape Chico is on the top left Yuba city is at the bottom and plumas. National Park is way over the top right exactly so the forest ranger who found Jax Kar found it in the middle of this like rarely used unpaid road that runs straight up into the Sierra Nevada. Mountains that top right point on the map. You're talking about now. According to an article I read on strange outdoors. The car was at elevation about forty five hundred feet just at the snow line. Meaning ANYTHING BEYOND. This has snow year round. And we're not talking about like a light dusting of snow. It snowed a lot six to eight feet of snow. And it's not like they would have to go through to get home like there's no reason for them to even be. Anna's area no I mean it's not even remotely on the way she go to. Yuba city is a straight and it's about an hour on the highway. It's mostly flat. There's no snow definitely no mountains and wasn't just a scenic detour either. This is over two hours of driving in the wrong direction. And what I can't get over is I mean we've already established it's not like he was on their way home but this isn't even on the way to anything. It's literally in the middle of nowhere but it is the same middle of nowhere road that Joe had been on the night that he got stuck in the snow and had that heart attack. The car was in the same place that Joe said. He had seen it when he tried to walk down there to get help. And it's right where he said it was and it's right where he said that he'd seen people men and a woman holding a baby in the glow of the car's headlights. So this validates has story at this point. I mean investigators are thinking that it just might be true so investigators decide to head up the mountain and see for themselves hoping that the car and where it was found might help make some sense of Joe Story and hopefully point them in the direction of these five men when they get there. They find the car unlocked. The keys are missing. And there's just this mess of food wrappers and soda bottles and milk cartons on both the front and back seats remnants of their trip to that convenience store just after they left. Chico and the last known sighting of the men now when they get there. The car was stuck in the snow. When you're tires just kind of spin and can't catch the ground so it was stuck like that but it wasn't in a ditch or a big snow bank or anything and not so stuck that they couldn't have just pushed it out. I mean these were not small men. They were all like six feet tall or at least close to it and about two hundred pounds and there were five of them. Remember right they would have had that car unstuck in a hot minute but it looked like they didn't even try like there's no push marks. There's feeding the snow. There's no tire tracks it's stuck and they're not there when police check they see that there's a quarter tank of gas still in the car so the men hadn't run out of fuel because they can't find the keys. Police managed to hot wire. The car and it starts no problems so that rules out any kind of mechanical issues At first police. Initially that these guys must have somehow taken a wrong turn and got lost up there but then they find those four maps that one of the guys brought up there. One of the maps included the same area that the car was founded. All of the maps were neatly folded and left in the glove compartment. You even mentioned earlier that Jack specifically brought all of these maps for me. It's hard to believe that they weren't using them or think to use them if they had gotten lost in like they're clearly lost. The snow would have immediately tipped them off that like. Hey we're not home yet. We're not close to home. Yeah and that's what I thought too but you know it's hard to account for what kind of impact maybe their intellectual disabilities might have had on that kind of reasoning. We'll and again like I said they are using the maps. I didn't say that they weren't like they could be going there intentionally. And using the map to guide them. They're right right. That's totally an option and honestly them intentionally going up. There is kind of what police are thinking at this point but they just don't know why that road that they were on was not very well maintained. It was not used very much. And it's a pretty rough road. But here's the thing when they look at the underside of the car. They're expecting to see damage. I mean again. This is not a paved road. There are potholes. It's crazy but there's no damage underneath the car. Even the police and the forest service guys vehicle had some damage on the bottom of their car when they were on the way up there to like. Check this out okay. But what does that mean? I need to remind you we are not on your show supernatural. This is not like aliens. Drop this car you know if it I fully love good Ale in theory and you know that but the lack of damage just told the investigators that whoever drove the car up their new the road very well well enough to know where the bumps were the pot holes were and well enough that they could navigate the road pretty much perfectly in the dark so which one of them had connections. There had been familiar with the area. So that's thing I don't think any of them but especially not the guy driving the car. Jacks parents tell police that he didn't know the area at all. I mean he hated the cold too and they said that it would be super unlikely that he go up there. I himself or with people and even less likely that he let anyone else drive his car. So if Jack didn't know the road and none of the other five guys were driving. Who was now if there is good news about all of this for the families of the missing men. It's that police. See No signs of foul play the bad news though is that these see no signs of anything at or any one. Police start searching right away calling in help from the Forest Service who knew the area best even with experienced rangers guiding them through. It's tough going. I mean the terrain is rough like some areas are only accessible by horseback even bring in helicopters to search from above and dogs to work the ground men on foot ATV like. They're pulling out all the stops. These search the area for five days straight before a severe storm close in dumping nine inches of snow in the area. And what this does erases any tracks that the men have left behind the conditions are so bad that even the search team has some close calls in the drift. Some of which these drifts were getting like fifteen feet high when the search hits the ten day Mark Police No. There's almost no way that the men could have survived if they were somewhere in the forest not dressed like they were that night and not after all that snow but surely if they had succumbed to the elements than they would have been found during the search so police start to think. Maybe there's foul play involved here after all the kind of bad around theories based on what they found in and around. Jack's car would if someone else lead the guys to this mountain. Was there another driver? I mean that could explain why there was no damage to the car. Even the road was a mess. So the theory went something like this what? Fbi's well-meaning boys stopped to help another driver and they were somehow taken. Advantage of stressful situations would definitely cause the men's behavior to deteriorate. According to their families be might do things or make decisions. That don't necessarily make sense to us. So maybe that's what happened here. According to a two part series written by Benji ago and the Sacramento Bee about three weeks after the boys went missing a random. Yuba city woman named Debbie. Got A phone call. And when I say random. I mean literally random. This woman is not connected to the men or the investigation at all. She said that when she picked up the phone a man on the other end of the line said I know where the missing five men are and then just hung up now. Obviously everyone by this time in the area knows about these missing men. She called police to tell them about this right away. Well then the next day she gets another call from the same guy he says. I need help because I really hurt those guys back. She asked him. Who did you hurt? And he just said don't play dumb with me and hung up the phone the next day the phone rings or a third time. The same man tells Debbie those five guys are all jet and then he hung up and Debbie never heard from him again. It's just one of dozens of leads that Po police in hundreds of directions sightings come in from as far away as Tampa Florida Ontario Canada. But the closest thing they could get to a solid lead comes when they find out Gary. The one with schizophrenia had friends in Forbes town now Forbes town is about halfway between Chico and Yuba city and apparently the road to Forbes town is easy to miss and if you happen to miss it in the dark you could end up heading north toward the mountains and towards the Plumas National Park. So now they're thinking maybe the boys were planning to visit East Friends of Gary and maybe they missed that turn and ended up driving North into the mountains but when they tracked those friends down they say that they haven't seen or even heard from Gary in more than a year and they definitely were expecting him to come over that night eventually. Weeks turn into months and police start to get a little desperate. They consult some unconventional sources psychics. Even a water which her okay. That's a new one. What's a water. Witcher okay so from what? I found a water. Witcher's are like psychic esque. So usually you'll see them holding a y shaped piece of wood in their hands which they use to find groundwater or minerals like gold now this particular guy that they consulted said that he'd tuned his instrument to find traces of human remains. Are Police skeptical totally? But I mean at this point. I know it sounds bananas. But what have they got to lose so the water which are leads them to an empty cabin not far from where? Jax Kar had been abandoned. The find a gray cigarette lighter not far from the cabin but none of the boys carries a lighter. So police aren't even sure that it's really relevant. And then nothing really comes of that. Besides this random lighter by the time spring finally comes police and forest rangers have spent more than six thousand hours looking for Ted. Jackie Jack Bill and Gary. But it's then after months of the men being missing after six thousand hours of searching the snow finally starts to melt and they get a call. That changes everything. This episode was made possible by Nam Nam. A health company that makes fresh restaurant quality food for dogs and cats. If you guys know anything about me now it's two things. I'm obsessed with true crime cases and even more obsessed with my dog like doing extreme and I know I go over the top. But have you seen chuck? You can't blame me. 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Before his NAM NAM food is based on his breed and his size and his age. Like I input all that when I was signing up and it's so fresh so recognizable and rehill that when we got delivered. My husband thought that I started using a new food delivery service for us. All recipes are research and formulated by Chief. Nutrition officer Dr Justin Shamburg who is also one of the less than one hundred board certified veterinary nutritionist in the country. And you know isn't just for dogs you can eat great to and don't get me started on the treats it looks better than the beef Jerky that. I eat switch to the fresh pet food. That's backed by science. Try Nam Nam Today. And you'll get fifty percent off a two week. Trial go to try numb dot com slash crime junkie. That's T. R. Y. N. M. dot com slash cranky for fifty percents off two week trial. This call comes into them on Sunday. June fourth more than three months since the guys disappeared. The call is from a man. Who's part of a small group of motorcyclists who were out for a Sunday ride in the Sierra Nevada mountains about twenty miles from where Jax Kar had been found? Now when they're on this ride. They happened to find a forest service trailer and they noticed that one window was broken. It and when they get close enough d-notice a horrible smell coming from inside inside. That cabin is a site. They will never forget shrouded in eight layers of betting. Is the emaciated body. A thirty two year old ted his pants or rolled up his knees his leg show signs of gangrene and he's missing by. Toews ALL LOSS TO FROSTBITE. And he's once two hundred pound body has shrunken to nearly half that size. He looks like he's between a hundred. Maybe a hundred and twenty pounds. Oh my God. Can I tell how long he had been there when he died? Won't win. Responders get out there. The pathologist makes a best guess that Ted had been in that cabin and alive between eight and thirteen weeks. And he outlined makes this estimation based on the growth of his word. He can't really get a super good grasp on an exact day or time of death due to the temperatures in that area so they can really only work off of a timeline of you know how his beard was growing in knowing that it's only growing he's alive so Ted's official cause of death was exposure but Brit. This is where the case goes totally sideways so he essential leap froze to death and starved to death. But there was a propane tank outside that could have provided heat to the trailer and they also found a bunch of things that could have been used to start a fire. Wood furniture paperback books but all of that sat untouched except for one candle which had been burned inside the cabin. Police find thirty one cans of food that had been opened and empty. Those cans came from a storage locker outside the cabin next to that storage locker but completely untouched was a second storage locker. That had enough food inside to last all five of the men an entire year but that locker was never opened and all of that food was completely untouched. So Ted froze to death in a cabin never having turned on the heat and he starved to death with food. All around him. O- okay but what about the other four guys? Were they also in the cabin know? Ted's body is the only one police find inside the cabin that day. But there are few signs that lead investigators to believe that he hadn't been there alone whole time. I remember you said that. Ted's body was shrouded in blankets when he was found. Yeah well the way that. The sheets were laid on top of his body suggested that someone else had put them there like layer by layer. Pretty carefully it just. It didn't look to them like he had just pulled him over himself. The second reason they think other people were there. Is that Gary's tennis shoes. Were inside the cabin. But there was no sign of Gerry. According to that nineteen seventy-eight article that I mentioned from the Washington Post. Police thought that maybe put on Ted shoes instead because Ted shoes were missing and Ted had bigger feet so the thinking was maybe if Gary suffered from that same frostbite that Ted had his feet would have been swollen so maybe bigger shoes were more comfortable for him. And that's why he took those but I mean even that's just really a guess and with no sign of dairy. It's impossible for them to know for sure right and that's also just one of the other four guys exactly now the last thing that makes them think other people were there at least at some point. Is those thirty one cans of food. That I mentioned now. Thirty one cans had been opened and police could tell that they had been opened using an army issued. Can opener call? Ap Thirty Eight and police are sure. That only Jack or Gary. Both of them who are army vets would have known how to use that. Okay so they're sure that at least one of those two guys had to have been there. Was there any other clues as to like how long they were there where they had gone tracks outside anything? There is nothing pointing to when they were there along. They were there or where they would have gone but as grim as it is finding heads body at least police have something I mean. This is at least a starting point for a new search. They get to work searching the surrounding areas hopeful but realistic about what they may discover and two days later on Tuesday June. Six about four and a half miles from the cabin. Police discovered the remains of both Jack and bill based on where their bodies were found. Police think they likely died before they ever reached the trailer like their bodies just gave up along the way less than five miles short and they died right there in the tracks and the rest of the group kept walking towards where they would eventually find the trailer now. Both of their bodies had been picked apart by animals and they're mostly bones at this point. Jack's bodies in a stream and police think he'd been dragged there by animals. I mean his body is somewhat intact like he still has a watch on his wrist and car still in his pants pocket and on the other side of the road police find bills remains which are nothing but bone just kind of scattered across the forest floor the Yuba county coroner is able to confirm Jack's caused as hypothermia and exposure but bills remains are so decomposed that they left no sign as to how he died though exposure would probably be a pretty good guess. I think now at this point Jackie and Gary are still the only two missing and Jackie's dad decides to join the team on the search now. Police plead with him not to come. I mean this is at this point. A recovery mission and. They're worried about what he might find in those woods but he ignores that as he searching. He's walking along the service road that runs to the trailer when he spots some of Jackie's close his jacket jeans and his shoes all in the same area now he runs over and picks up the jacket and when he is a spine falls out of police find Jackie's skull the next day about one hundred yards away now where he was found is sort of between the cabin and where Jack and bill were found the deep before now completely unrelated to his remains about a quarter mile away from the cabin in a totally different direction. The search team finds three will forest service blankets and a flashlight. Well there's still one guy unaccounted for is does that mean. That's Gary was sued. That's what they're thinking. There's one guy left Gary and this be pointing to which direction he wanted so the search team continues to comb through the area around the trailer looking for any signs of the fifth guy. Gary the also look hard in the area around where they found that flashlight and that blanket and police feel like they've gotta be close especially because according to an article from the load I knew sentinel. They said that there was a smell of decomposition in the area but they like couldn't pin it down but despite the blankets despite the flashlight despite finding the four other men. They don't find Gary in any of the places that they searched. Police continue searching the grounds around the trailer for weeks. The also send descriptions of Gary to psychiatric institutions in the area. I mean he hadn't taken medication with him that night to the basketball game. So they're thinking that if he's gone he's going to need them at some point in maybe he would contact one of those institutions but their efforts turn up nothing on June nineteenth. They finally give up their search. And that's it. Well that's kind of it at least in terms of the search for Gary but not in terms of the search for answers okay. There's one thing that's still really bugging me about this whole thing. Why didn't the police or forest service people or whoever think to look at the trailer from the very beginning like it? Seems like a huge oversight that cost? I mean at least one life well. There is some dispute about that. Now police say they didn't know that it was there when their search began and that's why they didn't attempt to find it but according to the forest service officials in an article from June nineteen seventy eight that was published in the Marysville Appeal Democrat. That article says that they did know it was there now. I don't know what's true whether they did or didn't know but you have to keep in mind that the trailer was. I mean like twenty miles from where they found Jacquard so I don't know that anyone including those experienced forest rangers. It might have been out of the radius. Yeah they would have never thought that these guys probably could have made it twenty miles and again. They were not dressed for that kind of hike. They were wearing sneakers. They didn't even bother to bring jackets. I mean frankly. It's astonishing that they made it at all and actually one of the officers who worked on the case back in seventy eight was quoted in the Democrat and chronicle saying that it would have taken them at least a full night and another day to get that far in those conditions and remember. I mean there is a crazy snowstorm. The night that they went missing so by the time police arrived at the car there would have been like a fresh blanket of snow that are raised any kind of sign of which way they went and why they would've left the car. I mean not only. Is this a huge distance from the car it honestly even seems improbable that they even found it. You know like without knowing exactly where it was. Oh totally I mean again. It was found by happenstance like these guys on a motorcycle. Riders happened to come by the trailer. They smell a decomposing body. Finest guy in there and then they notify police. I can't help but wonder had they never gone. There had no one ever gone back to that trailer. Would the boys just be still missing people so at this point police had nothing to go on? No idea why these guys would have been on the mountains in the first place indefinitely. No idea where they would have gone from there. And that's the big question in this case to this day. Why why were they on that mountain? Were they chased up there? Were they lead up there? Driven up there by someone else. Someone who had to have known the road and if so who and more importantly why did they abandon their car and run up hill twenty miles through deeper and deeper snowdrifts in a howling storm? What were they running from? What were those whistling? Sounds that the witness heard the night on the mountain. And why did Ted starved to death in a cabin full of food? Why didn't even try and start a fire? And who was in there with him and most of all the question that I can't stop asking is where is Gary. Police could never prove foul play in this case but they couldn't rule it out either and police along with the families of men who died had their hunches. An all of the hunches came back to one person. This episode was made possible by better help. Is there something interfering with your happiness or preventing you from achieving your goals? Let better help help you with better help you go from sign up to communicating with a professional counselor in under twenty four hours. The service is available worldwide. You can send messages to your counselor anytime. And it's more affordable than traditional offline counseling. Better help wants you to start living a happier life today. I mean it's more important than ever to keep our mental health front of mind. And if you're unsure go check out their website and see some of the amazing testimonials posted daily people just like you visit better. Help Dot com slash crime junkie. That's better help. H. E. L. P. And join over the seven hundred thousand people taking charge of them rental health with the help of an experienced professional. There's a special offer for crime junkie listeners. You can get ten percent off your first month when you visit. Better help dot com slash crime junkie. The one person whose name is still a huge question mark for police when it comes to the disappearance of the Yuba county five is Gary. The one who never really fit in with the rest of the group the one whose body they never found and the one who's still missing to this very day remember Gary didn't have an intellectual disability like the other four guys. He had a mental illness schizophrenia. All the parents of the other guys. I mean they had major concerns about Gary even from the very beginning long before they all went missing like when he started hanging around with the other four to begin with and then their concerns only deeper as police found Ted and find Jack and then they find bill then they find Jackie but they never find gary as I mentioned the beginning of the story. His illness had been well managed for the last two years. But it hasn't always been that way you see. Gary had a history of volatile and sometimes violent behavior. His first visit to the psychiatric ward happened when he was in high school. His parents told investigators that he had a bad trip is how they put it. His time in. The army wasn't picture perfect either. He was using drugs the whole time. He was in Germany. He was getting himself into a lot of trouble and things didn't get better after he was discharged from the army. Either he continued to use drugs heavily and regularly and he would often fail to take his meds which would then make him lapse into psychosis and end up back at the hospital probably because of his mental illness. Gary also had a police record. He become violent on several occasions and was charged twice with assault. He broke into a home once. And the couple who owned the home woke to find him in their bedroom looking for a ring to return to Satan in the times when he was institutionalized he escaped from a psychiatric hospital not once not twice but three times in Benji Eagles piece for the Sacramento Bee. He writes about Jerry walking walking from Portland Oregon to you account. That's five hundred and forty miles. The story goes that he survived by stealing milk off a people's porches and eating dog food. So there's no question in polices mind or the minds of the family that Gary was a stronger personality than others. He was different than the others and potentially capable of surviving on his own on the run. Exactly so the theory around carries involvement isn't super clear and we don't even know that he was involved but police believe that something or someone lead those men out to the forest that night. They didn't just walk into a blizzard on their own without any evidence. Their families just speculated Ted sister-in-law wondered if maybe the boys sauce something at that basketball game in Chico or maybe in the parking lot something that they shouldn't have seen and maybe they didn't even realize it at the time but whatever it was it prompted someone to chase them all the way up that mountain. Jack's mother thought that someone else was involved too but she thought it was a third party. Someone who is able to somehow get the best of all five men. She said that some force led the men up the hill that night she was actually quoted in The Washington Post article. I mentioned saying quote. We know good and well somebody made them do it and quote but the question is who police could never prove that the men were chased or followed up the mountain by another vehicle but it could explain why they were so determined to keep going in that direction. Like Jake Rawson asked in a story. He wrote for mental floss. Why abandoned they're perfectly good car and run headlong into the winter wilderness. Unless what's behind you even more terrifying and that might make sense of a few of the other things. Police were never able to pin down. Like that grey cigarette lighter. They found outside the cabin that the water witcher them to or it could make sense of a gold watch that they actually found on the bedside table next. Tad's body a watch that didn't belong to Ted or any of the other guys. Could the watch the lighter how belonged to the same person and was that person holding the men in the trailer controlling? What the eight in which supplies they used. And is that Whitehead. And maybe even Jackie and Jerry to starve to death despite having access to tons of food. I mean I guess but the trailer was there for the force workers to use a for me. At least it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility that the watch could have been one of their is. That had just gotten left behind less time than the trailer was used. Exactly I mean and the lighter could have belonged to a force workers. Well arranger a hiker. I mean it's not like no one ever went out there. People were out there on motorbikes in the area I mean that's how they found the trailer to begin with now. It's hard to prove that either of those things has anything to do with the Yuba county five and yet it's also impossible to prove that they don't have anything to do with it. So what do we know? What can we prove? The truth is not much. Police can only say for certain that one man even made it to the trailer. Tet- you was the only body found there but based on what they found in the trailer and around it and the position of the other bodies police think that at least three of them made at that night they think Ted. Jackie and Gary made it to the trailer the other two Jack and bill. They think they died on their way to the trailer though. There were no outright signs of Jackie in the trailer. Police believed that he was there. His body was found totally apart from Jack and bill and unlike Jack and bill whose investigator sink died on the way to the trailer they think made it now not only that but he may have been there the whole time that Ted was alive somewhere between eight and thirteen weeks and they think that maybe only left the trailer. After Ted died I mean he could have been confused and horrified knowing who wants to be stuck in a trailer with the dead body of one of your best friends and the reason they think Gary had been there at least for a little while anyway was because of his shoes that they found in the trailer right and he would have been the only one of three have known how to operate that army as you can opener right so this left police with one bizarre question was Gary. The one who led the group up the mountain into the snow had deary been controlling access to the food and the heat and other essentials. And if so why? I don't think we can discount Gary's history of schizophrenia. And the story yes. He was stable for the two years before this incident but maybe something changed if that night then definitely slowly in the days and weeks before February. Twenty four something. That ben at goal put forward his reporting for the Sacramento. Bee was what if Garry chose not to take his medication so it side effects wouldn't slow him down for that big basketball game but the guys are playing the next day. Could he have found himself in the beginning stages of a schizophrenic psychosis that night and could he have in Burnley led his friends? Who may not have had the mental capacity to question him on a psychosis fueled journey up. The mountain into snow covered forest. I think it is a likely scenario that something lead Gary to believe he needed to either get chew something in those mountains or away from something in that car and his friends just didn't know enough about his illness or about schizophrenia. Or Psychosis in general to know that Gary may have been in a paranoid state. He could have been seeing things that weren't there hearing things that weren't there and terrified of something that wasn't really there and what if after happening upon this trailer in the middle of the Wilderness and recovering for a few days from their journey. Gary left either to find help or to get away from something that he thought was inside the trailer and then maybe gearing never came back. That would explain why. Police only found thirty-one empty food cans. Maybe Gary was the only one capable of not only opening the cans but also finding the food which is outside the trailer in the storage lockers. I mean it's a plausible scenario but there are things. I can't stop about the whistling that night that Joe heard when he had his heart attack. That sighting of the guys with the woman with the baby. I mean we know the car was found in there. He obviously saw them. Who was this other person? Did he just hallucinate that part I mean we had the lighter and the watch but most of all would I can't get over is the fact that the car wasn't damaged and nobody who was in the car that night knew the area to me. It means someone else was there and don't forget we had sightings of them in a red truck now we don't know if those sightings are legitimate but all of this to me is pointing to someone else someone not part of the original five. I don't know how it all fits together but I do think that Gary is the missing piece of the puzzle. But where is he now? There's no evidence that Gary survived the ordeal that killed Ted Jackie Jock and bill. But there's also evidence that he died out there either like there's no evidence of foul play and no evidence to prove otherwise. This case is long on questions but short on answers pretty much everyone involved in this case officially and the families of the Yuba County five thinks Gary died in those woods. It defied logic that the men's survived as long as they did the conditions in that forest during February and March challenged the experienced forced rangers looking for the men and they were dressed for the weather. Gary was undoubtedly the best equipped to deal with the journey. I mean intellectually anyways but even he couldn't survive out there. Long-term police did look beyond the Plumas National Forest Gary. Even if he had gotten out of there alive he wouldn't have been able to fly under the radar for long without medication for schizophrenia. Investigators sent descriptions of him hospitals and psychiatric facilities in the area. But no sign of Gerry. Ever turned up. It's like Gary died in those woods along with Ted Jackie Jacksonville. And if he did the story of what really happened to the Yuba county five died right along with him. If you WanNa see any pictures we talked about in this case. Were to see a list of our source material. You can find all of that on our website. Crime Junkie PODCAST DOT COM and be sure to follow us on Instagram at trend Janke podcast. We actually won't be back next week with a new episode. Next week is Memorial Day. So we're taking a little bit of time off to spend with our families but will be back on June I with AJ Berry special episode. And if you want to hear more from US stick around for a puppet of the month story. Junkie is an audio chuck production. So what do you think check? Do Bro Okay. Ashley I'm going to be up front about this because I already gave you the heads up when I found this prop it but as a reminder to you a warning for all of our listeners. I'm awarding this problem. The month posthumously. Lucky the golden retriever mix passed away from a battle with cancer when here's a fit over thirteen years old but his story definitely grandma interest and I think our views will appreciate it to know boy so here. We go our listener. Morgan submitted the story of the first dog lucky and when Morgan was a kid she loved visiting local animal shelter on weekends but she spent with her dad. They go and pet. The dogs play with them but always with understanding that they were doing it because they were never going to any of the last words but also like you know it's important for rescue. Dogs be socialized around people for their own being and honestly ours. Too but yeah. They weren't going to get a dog mainly because Morgan's dad lived in an apartment. Plus her parents had shared custody of her idea of having shared custody of a dog to sounded like a little bit downdraft sounds a little bit messy but when. Morgan was ten. Her Dad got engaged to a woman who had a fenced in backyard which changed everything and one day. They were visiting a shelter. Play with the dogs and Morgan met her dog. He was sweet. Golden retriever mix who had little white socks and a little white patch on his chest. Which little fluffy retriever pause with white? I just can't. He was sitting so patiently on the other side of the fence. While all the other dogs were barking and jumping around and going crazy and obviously her dad was like friendly reminder. We're only there to play on the not So they do that but Morgan cried all the way because she knew that this dog was her on. Are you crying already? I've about that is so. Here's one of my favorite parts of the story is the very next day. Morgan's future step. Mom went right back to the shelter and adopted this guy for organ and when she got there there was actually another family. Looking to adopt. Him and Morgan said that to this day. She has no idea how her mom was able to get him but she basically said. I'm not leaving without the stock. I love already got a win so once all the paperwork was done. The shelter handed her this giant binder with a notebook in it as well as like all of the dogs health records and stuff like that and this shelter actually had worked with a local women's prison that put a dog training program in place in the prison facility and lucky had been fostered and trained by an inmate. Which may I? I don't know about you but like I love hearing stories about these programs. Because due to they help like local shelters so much like fostering and training and that helps dogs get adopted faster. But it's also super therapeutic for the inmates and start like we habilitation which like two birds one stone. I love programs like this so they get lucky home and start flipping through the notebook that came with him and it's actually his training notebook from the prison program and this notebook was build with meticulous notes and like almost journal entries detailing what a dog lucky had been how his training progressed and things he struggled with within the process and the whole family was amazed at what incredible job is inmate had done in kind of recording. Lucky life behind bars. And that's what I noticed the name on the front of the notebook. Dr Deborah Green and the whole family was in shock. They knew who doctor was and what she had done. Oh they were like familiar with this person. Whatever crime they committed yes so I was not at all. Have you ever heard of this person? No okay so I find that really wild 'cause Andrel yes that Anne rule actually wrote a book all about this woman. Oh my gosh. So it's like it's like a big case. Yes so. The book is called Bitter Harvest a women's fury a mother's sacrifice and I haven't read it but I'll tell you a little bit about what happened so back. In October of Nineteen ninety-five. Dr Green was a local Kansas City. Doctor who set her own home on fire and she escaped the fire with one of her three children but two of them died in the home and she her husband had had a rocky relationship. He'd actually recently moved out of the home a few months prior to the fire because he believed he was being poisoned by Deborah. Oh my gosh and according to ABC News when the police were called to the home. In what I think was a domestic dispute like a month before the fire. They said that Deborah was kind of acting weird and when they searched the house just to make sure like everyone was safe in okay. They found her beans which those they're used to make rice in a crazy crazy dangerous poison. And if you've watched breaking bad you know that and decorating was eventually arrested. In November of nineteen ninety-five it was charged and later convicted of one count of aggravated arson for setting her home on fire. First degree murder in the deaths of her two children who died in the fire two counts of attempted first degree murder in the fact that when she left her home on fire all three children had been in the home and obviously poisoning her estranged husband. Did her husband died in the fire as well. He didn't because he had moved out. He knew a couple months before so he did not. He did have like ongoing health problems and died shortly after having been poisoned that long could not figure out what was wrong with him because he's really really difficult to detect. His poisoning actually presented in a lot of like abdominal and gastrointestinal issues and he had recently gone overseas. He thought he'd kind of maybe water. Practice something there but nothing ever really panned out. So she ended up taking an Alfred Lee which is kind of like. I'm not saying I'm innocent. I'm not saying I'm guilty. But there's enough to convict me if I believe. Yeah it's basically say well and usually it's still in saying I'm innocent but I recognize that if we were to go to trial it looks bad and I would probably go to jail right and so. She's currently serving two concurrent forty year prison sentences and this is such an old case. I couldn't find a ton of information on it outside the book and a couple of Articles. I did read an article from the KC star that seated that. She filed for an appeal regarding her sentencing. Back in two thousand fifteen but it had been denied. And there's not really been anything since then has been Leonidas. How did our like sorry for like the Mini Crime Junkie in the middle of property of the month and it's just going to say like our province of the month story went to like a full on crime. Yeah I couldn't help it. I read this email from. We're getting I was like I have to tell lucky story so again here. Morgan and her family are welcoming their brand new dogs family and learning more and more about him from a convicted murderer and it kind of became like a morbid joke within the family to say things like don't accept food from. Lucky lucky loan with matches or home back when lucky was locked up but lucky lived a lovely and full life to the age of thirteen when he was diagnosed with cancer and Morgan's Dad. Who all those years ago was so adamant about never getting like Ireland. Because I already know what you're GonNa say it's always. The DADS Yawkey was the most affected. Yeah and he went to increase lengths to make these last months as comfortable as possible and shortly after past dad and step. Mom tried to get another puppy but it was too soon for Dad. We really just weren't ready to replace the best dog ever but Morgan did tell me that just recently. They did adopt new dog. Who looks just like lucky and I love this so much. New Puppy was trained as a service dog but couldn't quite make the cut so we got adopted and I feel like that's me wanting to be a detective like really want to do it. We're going to start a podcast but new dog and dad loved to sit on the Couch in Dad's barn and listen to talk radio but Morgan thinks in honor. It might just be time to introduce them to true crime. Podcast like crime donkey. I love it. I love lucky story so much again. I can't imagine adopting a dog and being like Oh also. A murderer raised up for a while yet again. It could not have been more crime junkie appropriate. I love it so much okay. So that's lucky story Ashley. We usually under episodes with adoptable dog but we have a really great track record of picking dogs that adopted before I before. The episode comes out before episode airs. So I think we're GONNA shift gears a little bit and I want to tell you about a shelter in Kansas and Missouri. Kansas City area. Where Dr Deb? Green Live called Casey pet project and they have cats and dogs. I was scrolling through their puppies today. They have a ton normal ones. I suggest looking at all of them. Because they're amazing. But you can find them at Casey pet project DOT ORG check them out. If you're in the area guys. Thanks for listening. And we'll see you next month for any preparatory.

Gary Matthias Ted Jackie Jack Chico Yuba County Jackie Jackie basketball Joe Story Ted Jackie Jack Bill Yuba city California army Washington Post schizophrenia Jax Kar Ashley Flowers Sierra Nevada mountains Nam Nam Plumas National Forest
S04 Episode 7: Called to the Forest (Pt. 2 of 2)

Unexplained

31:07 min | 1 year ago

S04 Episode 7: Called to the Forest (Pt. 2 of 2)

"This is unexplained. And you're listening to the second final installment of season. Full episodes seven cold to the forest. Of scaring everywhere within a five mile radius of the abandoned. Mercury montego. The Yuba county sheriff's office had found nothing. By the end of the day. However, they would have their first significantly. It came from a man named Joseph showns. Around five fifty pm on Friday, February twenty four the night to five men went missing shuns was making his way into plumas national forest along the aura Ville two Quincy road fifty five year old shuns had been checking to see if the road would be accessible for a trip. He planned to take that weekend when his votes Balkan bug got suddenly stuck in the snow after trying unsuccessfully to push out shuns felt a painful tightening in his chest. And immediately got back inside the vehicle to catch his breath. Unbeknownst to him at the time. He had suffered mild heart today. Being in such discomfort. He decided his best hope is to keep the engine running and try to stay warm until it passed. Or until someone else came by who could help. Drifting in and out of consciousness as the pain in his chest. Intensified? It was about to living thirty PM when shown was startled awake. By what he took to be two sets of headlights driving in from behind him one belonging to a car and the other two a pickup truck. My now unable to move. He could only watch desperation is the light passed him by and disappeared around the next bend. Thirty minutes later after hearing what he thought would people whistling nearby, showings, gathered the strength to investigate. Stumbling along the Dr he followed what he now to be voices until he came across a car seemingly parked up by the road and a number of silhouetted figures moving about in front of its headlights. Later described one of them as possibly being a woman who is carrying a baby with all the other figures being men. Jones called out for help talking ceased immediately. Moments later, the headlights switched off. Plunged into compete darkness. Shone angrily called out again the help but got no response. Suddenly feeling a little exposed swifty turned around and headed back to his car. A short time later he called science to Bhatia seemed to be the beams of flashlights. Moving about in the forest around him calling out once more for help. He could only watch and desperation as one by one. The beams of light was switched off in response when shown its engine eventually cut out at four AM he had little choice, but destroy count for the nearest inhabited place that he could find. Remembering the vehicle he had seen from the night before he decided first to check if it was still there. Sure, not just where it had been the night before he found what he could see then was a turquoise, but Curie Montego, but no sign of its previous occupants anyway. Despite suffering from a heart attack time Joseph shown, eventually will five miles to a nearby lodge house from where he was laid to take an home whites manager. When explaining to the police later, although there was little doubt. He had seen the abandoned car Shawn's cautioned that since he wasn't entirely lucid at the time. Not everything he thought he had seen could be trusted. The way it was certainly something to go on. What's more fifty five year old, man? Suffering a heart attack was able to walk five miles down the road to safety was reason to hope that the five men from Yuba county, Bill Stirling Chakma Druba. Check Hewitt, Ted. We her and Gary Matthias could have done the same. Provided. They were indeed the men that shown at scene. Undersheriff check Beecham received another break shortly after when a print dusting of the car revealed. No other marks inside apart. From those belonging to the missing men, though. It wasn't conclusive. It seemed to suggest at least that the car, but not been stolen. By the end of that first day nine inches of snow fell across the plumas national forest region further complicating the search buoyed by Shawn's witness statement. However, the various local sheriff's departments expanded their search to his forest bucks lake some twenty miles up the road from where the car was found. Having discovered that Bill. Sterling's family owned a cabin near the lake. There was a chance that the men might have tried to reach it. But again, no footprints clothing or any other sign of them could be found. Back in the Yuba city area. The families of the missing tripled by worry continued to wait helplessly for any sign of their sons and brothers. With the please continuing to juror blank. Some of the parents suggested contacting psychic in the expectation, even if they couldn't give them any clues, it might least give them some hope. Dr Gloria Daniel was a member of the church of Saudi an organization claimed to teach its members how to become psyche. Although Daniel knock come officially recommended by the Yuba county police it said that she had successfully helped them with similar cases in the past. On the morning of Friday, March third a handful of family members gathered together with Dr Daniel and watched expectantly as she ran her hands through a series of clothes belonging to the missing men, then she sat back and closed. Her eyes. After a short pause with the relatives. -rupt silence. Daniel began to speak. She could see people gathered together in a bluer cabin in a wooded hilly area somewhere near body of water. She said. And something else a small detail. A row of men talked into what looked like green sets of Kansas sleeping bags perhaps. She thought. So they're still alive asked one of the relatives. Hopefully. Dr Daniel hesitated, then opened horizons. I'm afraid that is all I can tell you. She said. By Saturday much fourth as the search entered its second week, the Butte and plumas county sheriff's began to question the merits of continuing with the recent storms showing no sign of letting up and the snow continuing to fall heavily. They decided to pull back their resources. For under sheriff, Jack Beecham who was supervising the entire search and his superior sheriff grant. However, it was no question of cooling off anytime soon. Got only to the men's lives. Depend on it. But the entire reputation of the Yuba county. Police department was resting on it too. It was only the year before that then under sheriff Lloyd thinly was arrested on charges of corruption having been accused of stealing weapons money and other valuable articles from the county evidence room, the DA who had prosecuted him believed crimes were merely symptomatic of a corrupt undercurrent in local police practices which had been left on challenged for too long. The case had been dragging on for almost a year by now looking increasingly likely that Finley was indeed guilty. Finding the five missing man alive was the perfect opportunity to win back the communities trusts. For under sheriff Beecham who had been drafted in to replace Lloyd Finley and sheriff grant facing reelection later that year the personal stakes could barely have been any higher. At the beginning of that second week, having put posters up of the missing men all across the Uber and Sutter area and with reports their disappearance daily feature in the local news the pair finally had another lead to follow up. Carol wolves was the owner of local store in Brownsville. Another foothill town of the Sierra, Nevada, just south of Oroville. Waltz had been working on Saturday February twenty fifth the day after the men had lost been seen. When two men matching the descriptions of Jack Hewitt, and Gary Matthias came into stool. The pair was said to board a variety of snack foods before heading back outside to eat. A second witness also called that same day claiming to have seen at least four of the men at the same stool the day after. Two of them who she took to be Bill sterling and Ted we're with sitting in a red pickup truck while to others who she assumed to be Jack Madrid, and Jack you it was seen at a telephone booth nearby. Having previously focused their search to no avail on the immediate vicinity of the abandoned car Beecham now feared that he had missed a trick. Response to the possible sighting in Brownsville, he probably split the investigation into four parts. With the mountain. Search till continuing one unit was instructed to go back over all the evidence. They had tracing the men's movement up to the night that they disappeared. Another would focus on reinterviewing, the family and friends while the fourth focused its energies and trying to locate anymore. Witnesses from Brownsville. Of immediate interest was the description of the pickup truck now mentioned by two separate witnesses. A short time later one friend of Gary Matthias suits suggested he might have taken them in to visit friends in nearby Forbes town, but when the police contacted them they claimed not to have heard from Gary for months. The fund set up by the desperate families. Any vital information raised almost three and a half thousand dollars but failed to yield any significant leads. On and on the exhaustive. Search continued entering a third and then fourth week, but still the men could not be found. The police also failed to find any trace the apparent pickup truck. On March twenty first nineteen seventy eight Undersheriff Beecham had no choice, but to make the painful decision to call off the search. After hundreds of hours having used almost one hundred personnel sniffer dogs, helicopters and snowmobiles the five friends who had supposedly left home merely to what game of basketball had completely vanished off the face of the earth. with the search having wound down one deputy was put in place of collecting any further information that might come to light having gone to Marysville high school with Ted we and his brothers deputy lawns as had been affected by the men's disappearance, perhaps more than most. Taking it to his personal mission to bring closure to the families in whatever shape that may take for the next few months as spiritedly followed up on each and every piece of information that came in from apparent sightings of the men in Sacramento to his followers on taro and Tampa in Florida. He chased them all to no avail. When one local psychic claimed that the men had been murdered in Oroville in a two story house numbered either four seven to three or four seven five three as spent two days driving, the streets any sign of it. But no such house existed. On some nights deputy as dreaming that he had found them would find himself walking toward them with open arms. Only to wake up alone in the cold darkness of his bedroom. His arms still outstretched before him. By the end of may, even the families had begun to lose hope of ever finding out what had happened to their children. But high up on the mountain the snow was steadily beginning to thaw and soon it would be time to begin letting up some of its secrets. On the often noon of June fourth three bikers went for a week and ride through plumas forest. Heading along the Oroville to Quincy road, they decided to take a turn eastwards onto one of the narrow forest roads headed higher up into the mountain. A short time later the group pulled into the Daniels sink campground located about three miles deeper into the forest off the main road the bikers pulled over a made their way to a large forest service cabin at the back of the site hoping to find a map of the local area. Approaching the building having just noticed a window that had been smashed in the writers were hit by a sweet putrid stench coming from inside. Coming in to investigate further the bikers soon located the source of the smell. They're stretched out on the campaign before them lying on the multiple layers of darkly stained sheets, they could clearly see the outline of a steadily decomposing body. When the call came into the Yuba county sheriff's office later that day Undersheriff Beecham grabbed his hat a made his way to the nearest patrol car. Arriving to find forensics. And deputies from the plumas county sheriff's office already there beach him could tell by the look on their faces that they had found one of them covering his nose from the stench beach him made his way into the cabin and approached the body. With the sheets now rolled back. He could see the Macy's. It'd figure lying underneath the way. The cool joy trousers had been brought up to reveal clear signs of gangrene on the legs. Next to it on a side table, les Brown wallet, a beat necklace and a ring. Beach him picked it up and examined the grazing on the inside which read simply Ted. The body would later be formally identified as staff thirty two year old Ted. We are last seen alive almost one hundred days before. The pathologist ruled the cause of his death to be the result of a pulmonary Dima. Brought on by exposure having survived for up to six weeks after I ca missing. To get to the cabin. We would have to have tracked almost twenty miles up hill in minus temperatures through six foot snowdrifts in the middle of the night. The shirt and corduroy trousers found on his body. The only clothes he had been wearing. What's more it most likely being sheltering in the cabin alive and reasonably well throughout the entirety. The original search. But Beecham couldn't understand it. Curse. We look around the service cabin revealed. Thirty one cans of food that have been taken from a storage locker and eaten but an entire other lockers were that had been left untouched. Propane gas linked to a heating system was also discovered as well as stones into batches. But also books and furniture that could easily have been used as fuel for a fire. Not if it had been utilized. And then the what the missing shoes. We had been wearing a pair of sturdy leather shoes the night, he went missing. But when they found his body his shoes gone. They did however find another pair of shoes left in the cabin a pair of tennis shoes the tat Bologne to Gary Mathias. Recently burned out candle suggested that perhaps someone else had also been there too long after we're died. But had since. Kiwi. Co creates cool hands on projects for kids that make learning about steam fun with a Kiwi co subscription each month, the kid in your life or receive a fun engaging new project, which will help develop their creativity and confidence every crate includes all the supplies needed for that month project detailed easy to follow instructions and an educational magazine to learn even more about that crates theme Kiwi coat inspires kids to see themselves as makers tinkerers and on a mission to empower kids not just to make a project but to make a difference. Kiwi code is offering unexplained listeners the chance to try them for free to redeem this offer and learn more about their projects for kids of all ages. Visit Kiwi co dot com slash unexplained podcast. That's K. I w icy dot com slash unexplained podcast. Discovery we as body prompted an immediate response from the plumas Yuba county police reconvening the search. They had called off three months previously. Two days later, tracing likely lines from the service cabin back to where the Montego had been abandoned officers soon uncovered another body or what was left of it. It was found roughly halfway between the cabin and the abandoned car lying face up next to a small stream the face and extremities had been eaten away by forest animals sometime after death. Car keys found in the trouser pockets revealed it to be the body of thirty rolled Jack Madrid. Later that day not far from Drew's body. More human bones were discovered scattered across an area of roughly fifty feet. It was all that was left of twenty nine year old Bill, sterling. That those three had now been discovered was understandably devastating for the relevant families but equally so those Gary Matthias and Jack Hewitt. With neither having been heard from over one hundred days in all likelihood they hadn't made it out of the forest alive. Either. Leaving it to be only a matter of time before the others would be found skulls volunteers joined the police to help speed up the search. On the morning of June, the eight Jack Hewitt's father also named Jack arrived to help. Deputy lawns as good been entrusted with the case after the initial search. It'd been ended did his best to discourage him from joining in. But Jack without be dissuaded. A few hours later searching an area roughly five miles from the cabin where we had been found. Jack spotty something out of place in the undergrowth. It was a faded Levi's denim jacket. He immediately recognized it as sons. When he picked up from the ground, a human spine fell out of it. Jack recoiled in horror as police quickly gathered around to take it from him. Hewitt skull was found a further one hundred yards down the hill. Barely a quarter of a mile away. Investigators also found three blankets and flashlights which had likely being taken from the service cabin. But no matter how hard they looked they found. No sign of Gary Mathias. After two further weeks Undersheriff Jack Beecham called off the search for a second time. The bodies were rather remains of the four men that so far being found had been placed into green canvas bags after all Justice supposed psychic Dr Daniel at apparently seen only they weren't sleeping bags, but bodybags? Bill Stelling Jack Madrid and Jack Hewitt's deaths were found to being the result of hypothermia with no apparent signs of foul play. That their bones and body were in the state that they were was merely to been down to the animals that got to them after they died. All the twist left for Beecham was to try and piece together. Exactly what happened and he knew just where to stop. Beach him had his doubts about the twenty five year old Gary Mathias from the beginning where the others had intellectual disabilities of one form or another Matthias had no such thing. Early on in the investigation beach him learned from thises family the involvement with the gateway project and how he met the others in the first place was due to his struggles with schizophrenia. What beach also discovered however was that his history was a little more complicated than that. Matthias had in fact, been in and out of psychiatric hospitals since the age of fifteen I being committed after seemingly having suffered an adverse reaction from taking hallucinogenic drugs. After being drafted into the army at the age of eighteen despite his clear medical records Matthias said to have suffered another psychiatric breakdown as the result of his continued drug use. At one point was arrested after going AWOL. While waiting in his cell. He demanded to speak to the officers on duty only to attack them when they opened his duel with aureus had stripped completely naked before carrying out the attack. Around the same time nineteen year old Thias now living back home in olive. I went to visit his cousin at some point in the night. Matthias was discovered sexually assaulting his cousins. Why while she slept? After being charged with assaulting a police officer and intend to rate with us was facing up to twelve years in prison, but Venturi accepted a plea deal and served only eight months. After his release with his behavior became the more Radic. With his drug use escalating, he found himself increasingly on the wrong side of the law. The were a number of bar fights as well as complaints of disturbing. The peace. One time, but Thia is even said to have turned up high at the house of a couple of new telling them he was going to stab woman in the jaw. Two subsequent attempts to have him committed ended in failure. When Matthias managed to escape on one account by crawling out of a storm, drain. Nine hundred seventy five Gary Matthias, enrolled did Yuba college but struggled with both its conventions and fitting in with other students eventually moved out to Oregon in Washington state to live with his grandmother only to turn up at his mother and stepfather's house weeks later tired to Sheffield he had apparently walked the five hundred forty mile journey home eating food. He found along the way to stay alive. All of which for Beecham made Matthias not only a potential candidate for the merger of the other men, or at least to have led them stray. But also one who might even have been capable of getting out of the forest alive. The Gary Mathias has never been found only serves to heighten this theory. It has also been speculated that at least Thias and possibly Jack Hewitt at made it to the service cabin with Ted. We're only to leave soon after with Matthias being the one most likely to have taken with shoes. Unless Gary Matthias is found to have survived after all it is unlikely there will ever be an answer as to what exactly happened on that mysterious night in February nineteen seventy eight. Why five men found themselves driving high up into the Sierra Nevada mountains, seventy miles in the wrong direction? Why having gone his forest? They could demand then seemingly abandoned their car and undertook treacherous journey through thick forest and six foot snowdrifts reaching the higher into the mountains. Only to find death waiting for them at the end of it. Much has been made about the men's intellectual capacities suggesting this may have been a significant factor in what could have been little more than a horrifically wrong. Turn. Some have suggested this might also account for why those who made it to the forest service cabin didn't eat the food and engage the heating apparatus to survive. Others suggests that you to their innocent with such things a worried that they were breaking the law made them to afraid to do. So. As for Gary Matthias despite Undersheriff Beecham's reservations in the time leading up to his disappearance. He appeared to have turned his life around. Not only was he holding down a steady job. But having finally been treated properly for his schizophrenia of which most of his Radic behavior was likely just a symptom. He hadn't suffered any negative effects from it for over two years. Once lost in the forest. However, we can only speculate are quickly he may have deteriorated without his medication. Certainly for Gary, mother and stepfather. There's wasn't especially difficult anguish. Not only did they never get closure. But in the absence of it. They were also forced to endure the inevitable suspicions the two rose once carries past came to the attention of the public. Like, many of the other parents Gary's mother and stepfather had also joined in with the search for the missing men, his stepfather Robert spent most of his time hunting for Gary's distinctive Vic black rimmed glasses reasoning. The tip a bear had taken him. It would have at least left bones uneaten. In all the time spent waiting for news of her son's whereabouts. Gary's mother Ida refused to turn on television to afraid of what she might find out. But no news as a came. She would spend the rest of her life looking for him. I'd like to thank Brian vans in New York for bringing this extraordinary story to my attention. If you enjoy listening to explain and would like to help support you can now go unexplained podcasts dot com forward slash support. All donations. No matter how large or small a massively. Appreciate. All elements of unexplained produced by me. Richard mclean. Smith, please subscribe rate the show on I and feel free to get in touch with any thoughts right ears regarding stories you've held on the show. Perhaps you have an explanation of your own to share. You can reach online unexplained podcasts dot com. Twitter at unexplained at Facebook at Facebook dot com forward slash unexplained.

Gary Matthias Undersheriff Beecham Jack Hewitt Yuba county Ted Gary Mathias Jack plumas national forest Dr Gloria Daniel Gary plumas county Joseph showns Oroville Brownsville Jack Madrid Bill sterling Shawn Mercury Undersheriff Jack Beecham Yuba city
Episode 01: A Face On A Billboard

Your Own Backyard

1:21:09 hr | 1 year ago

Episode 01: A Face On A Billboard

"There we are. It's a cold and cloudy winter afternoon. Her noon in San Luis Obispo and I'm retracing missing cal. Poly Student Kristin Smart's last known steps in May of Nineteen ninety-six from a house just off campus next to the entrance of her redbrick dorm building on perimeter parameter road Segel's are screaming overhead as I pass a huge modern looking REC center with students on the second story looking down at me through Florida's ceiling glass windows while they run on treadmills other students walked by me having loud conversations on their cell phones. Maybe I'm just self conscious but it feels like some of them are looking at me suspiciously. I'm I'm dressed modestly and wearing a hat and a backpack so I'm not sure what exactly they're picking up on but maybe giving off some sort of vibration that says I don't belong here at one point two girls pass me and I clearly here one say to the other that guy. I did not look our age so much for self esteem. I cross a break green crosswalk and my right or a series of red buildings with California theme names and brass on their sides. Sequoia Roya Santa Lucia Fremont the full walk only takes me about eleven minutes and by the the end of it. I'm surprised to see that. The distance between the last place she was seen alive and the door to her dorm. Building at mere hall is just about forty yards. It's in these forty yards. Kristin smart disappeared over twenty three years ago and the case is still unsolved. There are currently more than a half million people missing in the United States a staggering fifty thousand thousand or added to the list every month but the vast majority of them are quickly found and removed teenage runaways. Angry with their parents or people who just wanted to be left alone own for a while still six hundred and fifty thousand have never been found dead or alive. It's a heartbreaking statistic statistic but one that most of us are not really equipped to do much with the majority of these cases all never even hear about a few of them will probably become. I'm aware of from the news or a headline scroll by but since I'm not an investigator there's really not much help I can provide. It's a little well different. If you have access to some of the people and places involved different when someone goes missing in your your own backyard learn uh in growing up. On the California's central coast is probably pretty much like growing up anywhere else. People who aren't from your seat as picturesque arrest seaside paradise and the people who were born here can't wait to get to move to a real city. Were there things to do these days. I find myself somewhere in the middle. I was born in nineteen eighty eight in Santa Maria sixty miles north of Santa Barbara and thirty miles. Miles south of San Luis Obispo. I grew up in Oregon a small town. which is pretty much just Santa Maria and everything but name and population in May of nineteen ninety six? I was in second grade. When a nineteen year old cal poly student named Kristin smart went missing as an eight-year-old I really didn't know how to process that information except to be a little more afraid of kidnappers? When I was playing in my front yard I was still trying? Grandmaster tying my shoes with the O.. J. Simpson trial barely in the rear view mirror and a few months to go until the murder of Jon. Benet Ramsey. The Kristin Smart disappearance took center stage on our TV that summer. Especially because it happened in our own community and smart Christmas Marsden Marston. Smart Kristin Smart's Chris Smart Christian smarten over the next few years. Kristen is behind Chris. Start besides the occasional comparison to later missing persons cases. I didn't hear her name for a long time in a royal `Grande about eighteen gene miles north of me. There's a small strip of businesses on branch street that locals call the village just across the street from a historic swinging swinging bridge that spans. The Royal `Grande Creek is a billboard faded from years of sunlight and recently set back between a couple of trees. He's it used to be more prominent. But it's easy to miss now unless you're really looking for missing CAL poly student. Kristen D he smart seventy five thousand dollar reward. It wasn't something I thought I've often but driving past that billboard was a periodic reminder minder that Oh yeah they still haven't found that girl. It's been twenty three years now for the last four years. Kristen has been a missing person for longer than she was alive as many times. Mrs I'd heard Kristen's name I couldn't tell you a single thing about her and when I started asking around last summer I found that almost everyone I talked to remember her name and her face from the billboard but that was as much as they could tell me about her several of them had her confused with Elizabeth Smart a girl from Sandy Utah. Who was abducted from her bedroom in two thousand two when she was just fourteen years old but was subsequently rescued a year later and for various reasons which I'll get into in later episodes quite a few people I asked thought that Kristen's body had already been found? There are people still living locally though who have to no more. I'm just not sure how to find them. I googled Kristin Smart's name every few years and I was never able to find much. There's a wikipedia page but it's short rarely more than a few paragraphs graphs and I never got a strong sense of the timeline of events in her disappearance. But then I happened upon a five thousand word article that ran the Los Angeles Times on June. Eighteenth Two thousand six incidentally twelve days after I had graduated from high school an Article I had somehow missed up until last summer written by Peter h King. It was the first in a series of true crime stories that he was commissioned to to write for the paper last. May I had some free time so I sat down to read it and spent two days poring over details that I had never heard before events that took place in locations. I've driven by a thousand times and I was suddenly hooked and needed to know more so I looked for for a documentary about the case but there wasn't one a couple of half hour spots on shows like vanished or unsolved mysteries but no full length deep deep dive into the whole story. I found a few PODCASTS. That did their own episode about it but they mostly revolved around reading from the WIKIPEDIA page while making mixed drinks wchs. which really isn't what I was looking for here? Come on Martinis. So how did I get here making documentary about this case myself. I I don't know I just checked. And I'm a musician and recording engineer. According to my linked in profile at least once a day I ask myself. What are you doing and my answer on a good day when I'm not pulling my hair out is pretty simple? I'm going to try to to learn everything I can about Kristen smart and what happened to her. In the only way that I know how by talking to people First on my list Peter King the La Times writer. Who since gone freelance ties? This Peter yes it is Chris it is is good okay. So what can I do for you. Yes so I wanNA find out what made him interested in Kristin Smart's case to begin with and how it it affected him to dig so deeply into it. I'm up front with them. That I am not a professional and I know he is so I want to get a sense of where he came from and and whether he feels like he was able to accomplish what he set out to do. How long had you been at the La Times and was just like your typical sort of assignment? I had started in the early eighties Wondered away to the to the mcclatchy papers came back And at some point they decided they decided they wanted me to do long form through crime. Stories think lasted two years and the first one I did was kristen. SMART I attended cal. Poly in the seventies I had stayed attached the university through advisory Boards and whatnot. And you would drive down over the hill Cuesta Grade. And you'd see that big billboard. I had a sense of place about cal. Poly is part of my life and that's just seemed to be a a wound that Kelly had suffered and I wanted to explore it. Kick it around and see what the mystery was that they couldn't resolve the case at a public university in the middle of California. If it just seem interesting to me that they had not been able to put it together and when I started sort of like you Chris. I didn't know anything about it. Really which she was a good way to start because then I just started peeling away. Layers after layers trying to trying to leverage information to get more information and finding the right people could actually lead you to a document or a description and whatnot so I spent some time on ended up going down to the place in the Times. Let me go pretty deep on trying to get. It's far to the bottom as they could while we talk about it. We both agree that what really pulled into this. Case was kristen's parents. Stan and Denise Smart. She was a dreamer in news clips. Like this one. From last year I moved by the Smart Families Grace and composure. Two decades end to the tragedy of what happened to their daughter where we won't give up and so as Peter to two apparent ninety nine point nine percent sure is a long long way away a from one hundred percent. Sure but they're never gonNA give up until they they kicked it at one hundred percent because who wants to be the parents when the way wayward child returns you know one in a million so well we look for a while but then we just figured you were gone. I mean that would be that would have to haunt them. It's trite but they're they're they're the real victims. Kristen is the primary victim. What they've lived through it was his harsher than a penitentiary term? You can be a prisoner in your own mind. Do you have kids okay. I've I've got to and just the niece has never going to stop. She's never going to say. Oh you're right you know. Let's move von. She never going to move on. She might do other things. They've got other children. They get their love and all that but they're really prisoners at this. It's it's just so frustrating that it can't get resolved but I I don't think they would find closure they would they would just know in their hearts had Was Gone for sure what I remember as sort of discomfort about myself trying to try to even though they wanted a story in the Los Angeles Times that I still kinda different that way. It was still trying to thread that needle letting them know. I'm not here to exploit you know if you want me to go away I will go away away But if I if you know if you work with me I'll work real hard to get an accurate story so I was trying to forge a relationship action ship a little more than just a you know an interview and they were helpful if memory serves. I think it's been a couple of months reporting and and it wrote fairly quickly all the material probably a couple of weeks. I'm not I'm not a stonecutter but I'm also not the world's fastest writer What was sort of the legacy of that piece once you put it out? What kind of response did you get? And how do you feel about it this much later in response to articles as sort of a funny thing you get you get conspiracy theorist you get mom our just WANNA agitate you you get fans it comes in and all capital letters. I don't open up the email or wreath letter. It didn't solve the case. You always go in looking for for homer. oftentimes you gotta be content on second base with the double. This is probably a double. I think it got a lot of is opened like your own this is maybe you're documentaries the legacy that article no pressure. I don't even know if I'm capable putting something like this together. And even if I m capable do I have the right. The more I thought about it the more I decided that I only needed the approval of two people. I am driving northbound on the one. Oh one onto stockton to see Stan and Denise Smart. I had a hard time getting to sleep last night. which is really weird for me? Just just a lot of anticipation nerves. When I I reach out to the smart family I'm not sure how receptive they'll be sitting down for another our interview in the late nineties? They did the usual talk. Show Circuit Maury Povich Liza Sally Jesse Rafael and more serious shows like twenty twenty Wannian unsolved mysteries but a few years ago stands smart made a judgment call no more. TV shows no more allowing the story of their daughter's disappearance to be exploited for ratings. So when I show them what I've been working on for the past year. They're cautious but receptive like Peter King. It's important to me to let them know that I'll go away if they want me to. But all later learned that they can see early on that. My heart is really in this that I wanna find their daughter. You're almost as badly as they do. Almost so they invite me to their house in Stockton. The House they moved into in Kristen. I am was nine years old and after four hours on the freeway I pull up to the curb in front of the staircase that leads to their front door. Which I recognized from Kristen's high school graduation graduation videos? I take a minute to collect myself before I get out of the car. You're sketchy speech stairs. You've been stocking server wondering my wife so you haven't called cats. Regard details took myself case longtime old. I take a seat on their sofa in front of a coffee table on top of which sits a box of family photos. Denise sits next to me nursing a wasp sting that she got on her arm the day before and stand pulls up a chair across from us as as I start to go through the ball crazy when you look at these pictures. It's like this just a regular normal family just saying how do these crazy things just in everyone. What happens to other people? One of the picture shows the three smart children dressed in nutcracker costumes with blush on their cheeks and Matt Christian's younger brother looks a little less than enthused so when we first moved here so we moved into some apartments. We're going to have a house built down the street and that fell through so we bought this House but keeping busy casino. Norway moved in. When you're in town kids are signed up for reports? Are To do things. But you can't do it late so I just signed him up to be on the nutcracker none of the dancers after talking for an hour or so and doing my best to explain what Michael's this story are Stan offers to drive me around Stockton to show me some of the places where kristen liked to hang out over the years. Denise has become the defacto spokesperson for the smart family. Stan has gotten quieter and has a hard time coming back to the San Luis Obispo area now now associating it with painful memories of searching for his daughter's body in forests tunnels and riverbeds I expect him to be guarded but he. He doesn't seem to have any trouble opening up playing around the river there with wetsuits looking for gold cracks. Last last year we had gone good father and son time we had gone up there and span Dan about four days he had a quarter ounce of really nice chunky gold and which was exciting is normally. Don't find hardly early any lights at this time next time so when you do find some exciting in water is just beautiful crystal clear so it makes for a good time and so Can take you I for elementary school. This is Michael barone across intersection on the left so it's a K.. Through six and then Lincoln High School is has ever hear about a mile to the right and nine hundred twelve and next door is the junior high middle title school. This is Mabel Baron stand pauses looking serious for a minute insights always twenty twenty share and she was real interested in Athletic shoes good swimmer. I issue shoe has a competitive at the level or other two children afterwards Good swimmer and she likes volleyball and she a did things with volleyball kids. You see if we find a spot here willing park back here is care. It's fill okay so she likes water. Skis Denise arranged a lunch on on the marina with a group of family friends who all new kristen growing up to share some of their favorite memories with me while I'm in town. Kristen Babysat for many families families in our neighborhood and was everyone's first choice because of how much she engaged the kids showing them how to make tie dye shirts and rehearsing skits for them to perform for their parents. Once when a mother came home after being out for the evening she found Kristen standing in her doorway with a panicked look on her face fearing that something had happened to one of her kids. She asked what was wrong. And Kristen profusely apologize for spilling a little bit of Nail Polish in our living room bill amongst her friends. Kristen was warm and a little quiet. The last one to start a fight and the first one to invite them on vacations with author family order her house. For A sleepover. Fries and noble there are five different conversations going on around the table and it's hard to keep up with all of them everyone laughs when they recount the time. Kristen applied to be a counselor at summer camp in Hawaii even though she wasn't old enough yet and was except accept anyone and everyone cries when one of the songs from Kristen's memorial service comes on the radio while we're talking about her. Aw I go back to my hotel later with a plan to meet the smarts the next day before I leave and for the first time that night I feel a tremendous sense of loss in a way that before now had only been empathy. Now I feel like I've lost a friend early. The next morning I meet with Stanford and needs against there is thank you yes talking into a microphone is an uncomfortable process for everyone. You GotTa Talk to get Your Voice on there and you can go play deeper now. Would you like sir. You Guys WanNa talk at the same time I to me go there ever shirt. I sit down with stand in the family. Room and later denise and the kitchen action and asked to hear Christian story from the beginning I just try and do reflect back have ury twentieth nineteen seventy seven. Kristen was born overseas in Germany. Germany where we are so thrilled Davos child because we haven't been able oh to conceive without we're going to have to adopt a German baby boy after a long day labor. Kristen was born. Stan went to breakfast with our good friends and said the answer to our population is that men should have the children and there would only be one for family Ben. He didn't share that with here. And then we decided to return back to the US after we had been there just about three years overseas overseas wonderful experience and we had a little girl who we brought home seem like she would almost finished shoebox we had with. Everybody expects when you go to Germany when you come back with Volkswagen Cuckoo clock and a child so go we had all three came back and he got the job just outside of Yuba city at a high school is a counselor. I guess the first priority businesses just kind of getting settled and Kristen. She cried a lot and as it turned out she was allergic to milk. Fortunately at about nine months we figured figured it out and she turned into kid that you really wanted to keep and she was much happier. She got older sort of feeling a sense of invincibility and she could do anything she wanted to do. She walked very early. She talked very early. She was on a mission really. She knew what she wanted to do. A I WANNA kids. Are that way. But that big zest for life my holy moly. I can do anything like that in October. Nineteen seventy nine. The the Smart Second Child Matthew was born. Initially if you're the only child research the center of the universe and then when the second child comes along you need to have a a dollar something to play with since you're no longer the center of the universe and she so embraced having a brother. I remember in the hospital where our shoes just walk. When is he going to walk? And I said well it's going to be it's GonNa be a while and I've seen other families where a new child comes in when that child is too and they want nothing to do with that child and she was. We had to stop her from smothering the boy because she was just on him so that started very early finally in January. Nineteen meaty to Lindsey. The last of the three smart children was born and You know the third child so then we were complete family having three children front two girls and a boy and then of course Lindsey was little brother at that. Point can really be pain. So it's like well good. I've got someone he'll did. Did I tell him to do being the eldest child. I think she was an overachiever mayonnaise. She did things to please her mom and dad and in school she worked hard to have good grades and I think you find that true. Most families from there's more than one child at the Ellis. One parents really sort of focused on that child initially getting getting a school and and working and so forth so she she met that and she was already so organizer. It's like I said before. She periodically thinks she was a teacher feature Langham Allah. Make him sit and tell them what to do and sometimes they do it. Sometimes they wouldn't do it. And then she said a church service and make him sit and pray and sometimes it worked sometimes. It didn't work in home videos. You can see an active and engaged. Engaged fixed sister playing with her siblings and the snow and on beaches running. Lemonade stands and singing Christmas carols. And as she grew up kristen participated in school plays Soccer Games and swim tournaments on a cruise. She learned to make Omelets. The way the ship's cooks did and back at home started a routine of making them for family on Sunday mornings. Even though she mostly avoided eating a cubes she spent sometime in London with friends and Venezuela where she was a foreign exchange student for a summer when she smiles at the camera. Her dark eyes narrow mm-hmm with genuine warmth. She was close with both of her parents. She join. Join me and doing things. Although I think our interests are more in line with her mother my interests are quite a bit out of doors and doing things outside and camping camping going places so she always enjoyed going when we go to Yosemite or if we go to the beach so she liked water and she liked travel things that when we did that way and I think that was part of her. Makeup loved travel extensively. A the globe is their playground so I think she had those values values. I think she was always kind of finding her sense. And I think this is important for a lot of parents to understand that continuity child's life is really really important so we moved from Yuba City as she came here in fourth grade fourth grade. They think they're pretty hot stuff. Fourth graders and you you have to break into the into the group so she did the standard birthday things so she was embraced by her friends friends and pulled into it and then they kinda changed the boundaries on the school so that kind of upset the apple cart so you have to find new friends. Then then they went back to Mabel Baron and she reconnected with you know the friends that she had made earlier so I would say she wasn't the leader. The group says the leader of the pack but she was certainly not quiet she was just part of the group. I meet one of Kristen's closest friends and Marie for breakfast. While I'm in Stockton. Uh Afterwards we sit in my car facing the Stockton Marina while she flips through a photo album to show me pictures and I asked her to tell me about her friend friend. Okay this is on just I remember Kristen as A dear childhood friend friend we got to know each other from elementary school. We're really good friends in fifth sixth grade on Seventh Eighth Grade in stayed in touch watch Through high school even though we we went to different high schools while my most Memorable memories of of her and I was young. Kids stuff plane at each other's house on weekends and She loved to swim so a lot of our activities volved around swimming in the summertime. I remember being at her house a lot. I sleep over at your friend's house and baking cookies making popcorn and watching movies in it just loved her parents and her sister brother. My our families knew each other for you know these really good childhood friends and we we went through sixth excrete graduation in eighth grade promotion graduation together. She had a lot of vibrancy. And you can see from photos. She has wonderful smile and laughter. She appreciated Humor A lot of memories. Come back when I look at pictures of us. Pictures of US in sixth grade is being goofy at the pooer at the this thing called the beach club where kids would go through the pull and the beach. You just go and hang out like sixth grade kids like what we were like twelve years old probably and I remember her love of drawing especially like architecture in homes and she'd have graph paper remember. She would show me for being memory of being over house when we went swimming and she was showing me some of her new drawings of her new architecture of the houses that she would like layout map mountain mountain so much attention to detail she had such a gift I remember that's why she In my memory. That's why she went chose cal poly to go to because they had such a good architecture program and that's what's her dream. You know that in to travel the world she you know she had a great great smile. Great Laugh Shoe. You know I just remember lots of laughter and having a good time you know and just doing your normal every day. Things he's never getting into trouble. I mean we we were pretty innocent. We were in girl scouts together. She was a wonderful friend she was. I would still imagine that we would be friends today. I have no doubt we would. I'm still friends with her family in where she could imagine our our kids playing together which we back living close to where we are? I don't know but It's it's just not fair. She should she should be here. and Ah she's you know amazing person and I just I I've struggled with it for for so long long. Stan worked as the principal of vintage high school in Napa and because of the long commutes wasn't able to spend much time time at home in Stockton so in her junior year. Kristen decided to switch schools leaving her friends behind to spend more time with her dad. I think that was difficult year for because you know I reflected on when I went to high school I remember. The principal son was student taught during the time that I was going to high school. And I've thought about you know. I think it was very very hard for her to meet. Ah Dad's standards for his high school and Napa Finish High School. We didn't have a home that we were living in we moved around around and through rotary a lot of the rotarians denied rotarian provided as with places to stay. When they were traveling we stayed in some beautiful homes? housesitting and Also I rented some places we might be you know in one location for a week or a few days and I think that was difficult for her. We didn't always have a bed to sleep in. Sometimes we slept in sleeping bags and so we had a lot of time in the morning and then we went to school and then afterwards go out to dinner somewhere. I really didn't have the facility to cook there. Era later I did but I think it was difficult for her to socialize and that she didn't have a place to meet friends or you communicate very well other than at school at the time so she stuck that out for a year which was a bit trying on her. Maybe on me a little bit and then she came back home to mom and completed over here to Lincoln High School in Stockton in her last year of high school. Kristen reconnected with Old Friends like Roxy. I think probably I was. I was her close longest friend so she was friends with my sister. My sister was in the grade. I'd say she was probably one of the best friends you can have for just a very kind polite carey. Shy girl she. You helped me with my homework. A Lot 'cause she was really really really smart. Some of the funnest memories we have her parents would take her in Idaho. Seventy and we'd climb you know climber. Hike Kristen loved shop and we would go to the Spree outlet which was really fun. You know it was a little kid or just you know a young girl. It's a big basically warehouse of just boxes and boxes of discount clothing. She used to share close with me and she was always so sweet about it. You Know See love. Bob Marley. Tom Petty even like wrap my sister and I would pick her up. I don't think she had a car in high school so my sister was always the DJ of all of our music and some of the songs that we played you know. Kristen system would get a smile thinking about it. 'cause she'd get all you know barest you know kind of August. 'cause we would play some of the more graphic songs but she was really shy. Really shy after graduating from Lincoln can high school on June eighth nineteen ninety-five. Kristen traveled to the island of walking to work as a camp counselor. Lifeguard at Camp. MOCHA Leah Over what no one knew would be the last summer of her life Christian. You hear me. I tracked down Rachel Bird. Who shared a cabin with Kristen? At MOCA Leah. Yeah that's summer Christian with my co counselor at Camp and so I spent every single day with her morning noon and night for re months or whatever it was you are told. Who's in your cabinet? There's younger cabin. You know. Medium aged half in older cabin so we took care of the youngest kids for a whole summer and Kristen and I got fleet together meeting Paul mutable wine circa girl like only gosh worked by being. After summer camp and cousin passed away he had a heart problem. And I remember Kristie that were actually was was a big support to me during that time. 'CAUSE it was really my cousin was like she was always there for me. I think there's actually a picture at one of our families and there's a picture where I'm crying and kristen tugging knee and just it's just a girl you know. She was definitely like the super girl. She loved me out in the water. Anytime she can go circuit respirator. Anything like that he wanted to be out there doing that. I remember doing hair wrapped on her hair. She's just about very like Percy I wouldn't WanNa see like flower child but like kind of like yeah like nothing ever adversary to get their calm and collected you know we were both tall. I'm tall and hefty issue tone joked at like the two of us were the twin towers because the vote so tall we were both older like six feet ish and her legs went up to my shoulders and my legs winter like her knees. 'cause I'm tall when the short legs and she you just had these legs for day then she gorgeous right like anybody would be around and the person that does is goes through. Britain says she just had that look. We got to get shaved the kids fun zone. Twenty four seven right We're more than nurturing. Mother dairy lying mellow. It's like. We're good when you were. There was all about just being Hawaii League pitchers of being out front of our cabin all of the today on a picnic table. You know you're young and it was fun you now then winter reunion the richer injury union between Christmas and New Year's I think actually went over New Year's I'm it's a smaller version of Pam. Not As many kids and then you were getting ready to go back. uh-huh in June and I know you've been hired. I was working at the gap county again and the whole summer kind of did where is she is somewhere to go nowhere. You know dancing through life and then all of a sudden somebody's gone and it's like we but I wanNA hold onto those memories and like I want to remember every moment because I didn't know there weren't GonNa be any moment focused on our academics but struggling with mild. Add Kristen had doubled up her workload to Graduate Graduate Semester Attending San Joaquin Delta College for extra credits to increase your chances of being accepted to a four year university it worked worked she was accepted to UC. Santa Barbara and had already paid a deposit for a dorm room there when she abruptly decided that she would rather attend somewhere a little closer to home so after returning from Oahu. Kristen moved from Stockton to San Luis Obispo to study at California Polytechnic State University known to students and locals as cal poly where she originally intended to major in architecture but later switched to communication studies with the the goal of traveling. The world is a reporter like Joan London here again her friend Roxy from Stockton. We stayed close until she left for school cool. I don't do therapy too often but I'm in PT Right now. Because I just had a baby you know you know some weird things have been popping up you've ever. Have you ever had mouse treatment before they put at your your hand in your mouth. Do All your muscles a memory pop back in my head Navy too because you had called me you know she was going off to college and that want to come back to stockton you know she just wanted to become an architect and live overseas and China. Just become you. You know free. She told me she wouldn't be calling me too much when she left for school. which was heartbreaking? Because I'm a I was a senior at the time so I didn't. I didn't talk to her when she was in school at all. I guess that's kind of common. You know when you leave a town like Stockton but the neat thing you know my husband. You said that I didn't peak in high school. Well I'd say that Kristen didn't speak in high school. You know what I'm saying like. She had her life to peak. I think that it was her time. You just you know get her architect degree and stay the world you know because she enrolled late. She missed her chance to get a dorm room on campus. So so she moved into the Steiner Glenn Apartments at ten fifty East Foothill Boulevard now known as the slow so she had a really really nice roommate there. I thought she was nice but it came from very small very sheltered kind of background so it wasn't an on happier appier dorm relationship. She just wanted to be on campus and so sh- her name from the get-go was on the waiting list when she returned to cal. Poly after after spending Christmas nineteen ninety-five with friends back at Camp McCulloch. She moved into room one twenty at mere hall one of six historic residence halls known known as the red bricks. When she got the call that she could go she had to give thirty days? I think two Standard Glenn and then I didn't help mover. She Somehow Mel probably found some of the car or something but she got resettled and she said Oh. It's so much better. I can walk to class. Casinos Tenor Glenn is not right. Next door acclimating. The life on campus. Kristen worked to reinvent herself using nicknames like Kiana or Mirasol in her emails and dying her naturally blond hair Brown. She still called her parents every Sunday though and they travelled down to San Luis Obispo several times to visit her we probably he went down after the Christmas holidays in we went down after Easter vacation. Because we've gone on a trip with the kids that's when I saw the brown hair and she told me about the brown hair But it seeing She was like all children going away. They're rather independent. When you get to college and myself off my wife and yourself and everyone else knows that you know like Brown I think you know Sometimes gets make their hair red or green or something. So how long's she would've kept it. I don't really know the college classes came as a bit more of a struggle for kristen than high school had and not long after moving into mere hall she started to express doubts about whether cal poly was right for her there were other replaces. She told her mother like the University of the Virgin Islands or Puerto Rico where she could go to get a doctorate when denise came down to visit her in early nineteen ninety-six. Kristen broke down begging her mother to let her drop out and go somewhere else she really everyone's too much. The same and the reality is freshman. Year is really hard year for many majority. I would say it's a huge. His transition being away from home being responsible for your laundry having do your homework and she was working as a lifeguard so she tried to get as many hours as she could at the pool and of course is the Newbie which hours are open in other five and six. AM hours and she was like most teenagers take. They love their sleep so she was probably tired. She's fatigued and adjusting. But like I said. I don't think it's unusual for kids. In their first year of college. To in fact I had a friend whose son was a year ahead of Chris he was at pepperdine and I talked to her about Christa. Not Wanting to be there said Oh my God. That just sounds like todd last year. He just wanted out of there so bad but once you've finished I never said I did. Monica unpack here transitional phase. I think I think with my my other two. They were really entrenched in swim team and they swam for their colleges. So you kind of have a built in network of fast friends that you blood sweat and tears with so. It's very much of a bonding thing. And for other kids going to college you have to work to build. Your network of France is not automatic and all that she could swim team and they asked her to cal. Poly I think. Maybe she was a little swimming burned-out she was always happy camper. She wanted to after being there for nearly a year. She wanted to go to another school to travel more school overseas. She had all these grandiose ideas lease they presented me at the time in early May of nineteen ninety six which just a few weeks left to the spring quarter. Denise sent her daughter a letter reminding her that she had a world of opportunities that are fingertips and urging her to learn from her mistakes and finish out the semester. You know I do remember writing. Probably the last letter she got from us. So that's kind of hard in like you know everybody's mentioned before she was smart smart enough kid but it's like I think she's trying to do too much at one time. So you learn from your sakes you have to prioritize what's really important and you're in school not turn a lot of money you're ear in school so that you can in the future have recruited that you like your money so I think she tried to take on to try to take on too much and didn't really prioritize. The academic piece of the issues of I mean kids go off to college. You don't know what they're doing so she certainly didn't right. Tell me Oh I went into this and so it was. Parents get a modified version of what's going on and the version I got was all I can't say that much is I have to work. I have to get up. You don't understand I have to get up at four thirty in the morning in saying reprioritize so we weren't really there. You weren't helicopter parents. She was nineteen. She knew everything Dan the last time you saw her in person. I do remember sitting on the bed in the hotel room with her. And just kind of talking about life in general and then we're going to go to her dorm later. I think stamp took her back to her dorm and she said but you have to wait a little walk. I'm clean it up. You're going to be some crest. How Clean Harkness Africanus and crystal was gone that weekend? So they talked about Lindsay can spend the night in the dorm with her. It just didn't happen just because I don't know I think what's the place where they'll eat. Eat ribs McClintock. Yeah so I just got late. uh-huh she went back to the hotel with us so it was probably whatever spring break West for them marched on May twenty second. Kristen wrote her last letter to her friend. Anne Murray who. She hadn't really kept in touch with after going away to college on stationary decorated with angels and Cherubs. She expressed her condolences. I'm died suddenly by suicide when I was a freshman. Been in college at the end of my freshman at the same time I was in San Diego and she was in Cappelli and after Kris went missing her mom found on this letter and she had written a sympathy note to me and she actually had talked to her mom about it over the phone. indies gave that to me About a month or so after kristen went missing. Something I've I've held onto state because it means so much of the words that she you know that she wrote and How much she cared even though we were apart because we were both at different schools and whatnot pre resell phone era? Kristen had a standing date to call home every Sunday night from her dorm room to stay in touch with her family on Friday may twenty fourth the start of a three day Memorial Day weekend. She made an unscheduled phone call to her parents who were out at the time. She left a message on their answering machine that she she had good news and would call back on Sunday Standing Denise Smart Listen to the message later that night my wife actually had had a message aged good news. Good news I don't even know how we found out along the way but we did find out that the call was about. She was concerned about a grade and they apparently had found a paper. You know. are attested and she had a good score on issues excited about that. I said it biology in chemistry class or something where. They couldn't find her finals so they had given her an incomplete. And so I know she I well we were talking about that beforehand. Because she didn't like confronting people am. I said if he took the test Sarah Responsibility to find it. So so. Don't feel bad that you put it in a pile or did you put your name on it. And she said it was a scantron so you had to fill out your name. Sorry name was on it so so I heard afterwards. I don't know if it was from. I don't know how we found out that we found out that. That's what the good news good news wise so if you only knew that what you knew now you know so Nice Nice community. Wonderful people and and MM-HMM I can't think of a safer location however it's just like any location there are one or two people that can destroy someone's life so thanks can change change overnight that Friday evening after making the phone call Christine got dressed and ready to go out with friends for the night after settling on a great crop top black shorts and a pair of Red Puma brand shoes. She left Mir hall with her friend. Margarita compost compost. Who lived in the room next door hers? She didn't bring her. ID or money with her and she had lost her rookie so she was depending on Margaritas key to get them back into the dorm building that night. They ran into two other girls in the hall who are also looking for something to do so the four of them fled down a guy in a truck. They knew you and asked him to drive them around to find an off campus party to attend as a side note. Kristen was afraid to drive and never got her own driver's license Margarita. Compost was probably Kristen's only close friend at CAL poly they bonded over their. Add and spent a lot of time in Margaritas Room. Talking talking about boys and making cassette mix tapes. I tried to get in contact with Margarita for a few months through social media and email and when those were unsuccessful successful through cold calling her I left her a few messages and never heard back so. I figured that she wasn't interested in talking to me but I was wrong. Hello Hi this is Chris. Is High Chris's Margaret. I'm sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. The story of Christians last night has been told many times and through small inaccuracies and early news. Stories the details had become mixed up and embellished over the years. There's so I ask Margarita. Walk me through her memory of that night from how they decided to go out looking for a party in the first place right up to the last time she ever. I saw kristen. So that night we choosing my room and I was Kinda stressed out so I was like. Oh my gosh I have this biology final and I hated biology at the time like ended up switching my major but that said I was extra. She's like Oh what are we gonNA do tonight and I was like I don't I don't know nothing I'm GonNa do nothing I'm going to study you know. And she's he's like Oh comics. Do something music and she was like. Oh can I use your had a like a double cassette so you can make a recording. You know of music. Oh I WANNA make a recording of this or something as we were listening to music and apply in my mind I just think of Cyndi lauper true colors. I remember her like almost telling you come on Margarita. We're GONNA go out. You can't just day like we have to go out up and I was like. Oh God it's almost like she lives in a let me not she wasn't GonNa let me stay She wanted me to go. And then somehow we connected with the girl down down the hallway and they were all down the hallway and I guess one of the girls was like WE'RE GONNA PICK US UP AND WE'RE GONNA go to some party and then I don't know if it was a party or get together something but we went down ended up coming up in this truck and driving to some like residential home at a house off of Foothill Boulevard. They sat and watched a few guys play video games for a while before they decided it was. In Kristen's words a dud. Not How she wanted to spend her Friday night. It was like Oh my God. This is such a dad like we are leaving. You know I gave Beers and that's what I'm saying like. We only had one beer when I left her. They went back to driving around in the truck truck for a while looking for a better party because it was Memorial Day weekend though a lot of students had left town to stay with their families and the parties were scant. That night was such chill night like it was such a quiet night in San Luis Obispo and it was just a couple of driving around trucks around town. I I'm pretty razer. Kristen was one isn't just dropped Margarita off here because we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA keep walking around we're going to keep walking around and pretty sure it's California and Foothill Khorasan then and Margarita walked around for a bit eventually ending up near the unofficial frat houses surrounding the cal poly campus where there had to be at least one party going on Margarita followed kristen into the parking lot of the Foothill Hacienda apartments at one ninety California Boulevard. Before she started to get tired of looking we were kind of in the parking lot and she kind of walked breaking over probably crandall and I was like No I'm cool. I have he and I was like I actually. I remember that very vividly. I'm like really have to egress in. And she's like just go here and a Bush is you know. Just go pee right here and I was like no I WANNA go back. I'm tired I I don't think there's any any parties like I don't think there's any parties and she's like well. Let's just tried this street. Let's just try this street and I was like I. I don't want to so I just I just. I just became my foot down and I just wanted to go back and She was like no. I'm just GONNA wind up this way and please please and we had this sort of like please no you please no you please. You know. But just like really quick Margaret. A really quick and I was like no Christian. I don't want to and I think she was so determined to find a party and I was so over it. She wanted to find that party and she was egging me. I'm begging me and I was like well as long as you get home safely so I gave her my key because I knew that by the time I walked back to the dorm it would the door still be open but if he took any longer the doors because it was like in the nicotine I like I remember rushing shing back and I. I'll never forget her shadow with against the harshly on the back wall partially on the on the dumpster the big dumpster trash can again and it was cool. I was like her shadow was just really tall and big and And that's one of my last memory. I'm going this way you're going this way. Here's the key by and use the pointed at me. I mean honestly like I think that's hard for me. She was angry she was angry. They didn't want to go with her but not angry to the point of life if the next day she would have probably been like. Oh you miss this great party. You know she wouldn't have been angry with me as in like I wanNA talk to you again again. It wasn't like that angrier. Not Margarita handed her room key to Kristen and turned and walked up Monte Vista Place Back Towards California Boulevard. Vard Kristen Walk The Opposite Direction to Foothill Boulevard towards crandall way. I left her by herself knowing that she he was not gonNa not GonNa go home until she tried. Every avenue define social outlet that night. She just wanted to have a social outlet that night and she was not going to give up that easily I gave up. She did not while she had no idea that it would be the last time she ever saw her friend guilt his weight on Margarita in the years since since I was a girl scout for many years. And you're supposed to use the buddy system and I just retired that night and and she didn't come back It didn't take kristen long defined the party. She was looking for a little after ten PM. Am just a tenth of a mile from where she split for Margarita. She walked into a birthday party being thrown by members of the Kappa Chi Fraternity for a senior named Ryan and swampy fell and his friend. Tom Gore at one thirty five crandall way and like a lot of people. I initially had the impression that kristen had been at a crazy. FRAT party with shirtless guys doing keg stands Dan punching each other in the face. But that's not exactly right about twenty people. Were invited to swampy fells party. That's his nickname. Swampy but several people filtered out like Kristen. What happened inside is a little hard to discern? The people who attended have been notoriously tight white lipped in the years since talking only to investigators in the immediate aftermath of the Party and never publicly part of the reason for this. Is that a lot of people. Present doesn't were members of Kappa Chi and college fraternities have a code of silence involving incidents that could get their charter revoked in two thousand and two sigma MCI pledged. Bryan Gillis died in Stinger Glenn apartment the same complex. That kristen lived during her first quarter at CAL poly GHB or Gamma hydroxybutyrate. Sometimes referred to as the date rape drug and the main ingredient in a concoction known as fade was found in his system which he was believed congested at a Sigma Chi Party the night before when his roommate found him. In the morning he is fixated on his own vomit. After the news broke members members of Sigma Chi. Drove up to Lake Nassem Ianto to have what they refer to as a roundtable discussion fueling speculation that they were trying to get their story straight as a way we to cover up their involvement cal poly Sigma Chi chapter lost. Its Charter. Four months later and was ordered to pay over three hundred fifty thousand dollars. As the result result a wrongful death suit filed by Brian's parents in December two thousand eight another cal poly freshman named Carson starkey died of alcohol poisoning and after a hazing incident by Sigma Alpha Epsilon before calling. Paramedics hours later fraternity members removed. Carson's pledge pin in an attempt attempt to hide their association when asked why charges took so long to be filed. The San Luis Obispo police chief blamed a lack of clear and open cooperation and by the fraternity throughout the investigation. Their charter was later. Suspended outside of that reasoning I've encountered a lot of hesitance. It's that I can't explain. Even when I reached out to party attendees who are not members of the Frat some of them blocked on social media and others tried to severely downplay play. How much of the Party? They could remember even though I only contacted them after hearing from their own friends that they had shared very vivid stories about being there since. The party is such an important detail and Kristen's case now I really want to talk to someone. Who was there so I'm not just trying to stitch together two or three unverifiable viable details? That have been rumored over the last twenty years. But how am I even get to find out. Who was there that night if none of them will ever talk? It's important to explain here. That Kristen's case has never been declared cold. Even though it's gone unsolved for twenty three years a cases cases only considered cold when law enforcement decides that. They've exhausted all of their leads early on in researching the story. I traveled to the San Luis Obispo Courthouse House to request any records on the case that I'm legally allowed to see and I find out pretty quickly that it's mostly a dead end because the investigation is still considered ongoing. Join an active. None of the documents are evidence or disclosable to the public. But what the clerk is able to give me. Essentially turns out to be a table of contents of of those nondisclosure items paperwork from previous legal effort to get a hold of these documents which I'll talk about in later episodes. The list is pretty insightful but incredibly frustrating to go through to see the titles of reports. I'm not allowed to read with descriptions like supplemental report regarding regarding underwear and memo regarding pizza cart on page seventeen. There's a list of initials that each read report of contact contact towards the top of the page is report of contact with our F- Ryan. Swampy fell after verifying the initials four other known attendees of the Party. Who mentioned a little later? I'm able to confirm that. This whole page is a list of people who are interviewed. In the aftermath of Christians disappearance terrence most of whom had seen her on the night of May twenty four and with the aid of social media. I start sifting through friend lists looking for matches to those initials double checking. Them was sites like Lincoln to confirm whether or not the people. I'm finding attended cal poly in Nineteen ninety-six and then each each time. I feel strongly that I've located another attendee using their friend list to search for more one of the easiest sets of initials to fill ELENA'S TB because Trevor Belcher came forward in twenty thirteen on an episode of true crime with Aphrodite Jones to say that he was at the party that night with his best friend Dominic who was a member of Kappa Chi. When the word gets out that I'm working on a documentary about this case I find out that Trevor Belcher and I actually we have a mutual friend in San Luis Obispo and she hooked me up with this phone number? Hey Trevor Cover You know I'll be. I'll be honest usually Nowadays I don't talk people Just 'cause I I told my story on but like I love podcast account and your friend of April. I'm happy to talk to you all give you the whole the whole scoop I really can't answer like the great questions like what what happened that night. So I do have like a certain level of a story that I think could be Importance you so your question for you right now being recorded yes okay is that okay. Do you want me to stop. No no totally fine. I mean I get it with With podcast so Why don't you tell me about what you what you're working on in? Maybe how I can help Aluminum the story for Ya. I let Trevor No not so subtly that my equipment for recording in person interviews is a lot fancier this year than my equipment for recording over the phone so come down to La. Just like that. I make a plan to drive down the following Thursday but I let him know. I know that I'm kind of surprised by his willingness to talk so openly after years of not talking and he's honest with me. He's had a few cocktails tonight but but he's still willing to commit to meet in person. You Know I. I'm just saying like if you WANNA come down and like hang out and like My daughter goes to get around. H each you know we could get we could just you know podcast and just you know you just ask you the questions and I'll I'll tell you but I just WanNa make sure that you understand my perspective on things so you can look i. I just want you to tell the right story right. I wanted to be the best. Your Angels Look. I think we'll have a great conversation interesting. You know and all I will about me and I. I won't be all the buzz well. He texts me his address. And I put it on my calendar. Great Talk New. Great meeting by by Trevor is important to the story not just because he can give me insight into what swampy fell party. Looked like and who else else was there but also because he talked to Kristen several times at the party the following Thursday. I'm driving on the Los Angeles freeway to Trevor's house in bumper to bumper traffic. My car broke down a week before. And while it's in the shop the only car available. The rent was a white twenty nineteen Mustang convertible. I'm a little embarrassed that this is going to be as first impression of me but it's it's better than postponing are meeting it when I pull up in front of his house. The car projects the lit up Mustang logo onto the street from my side view mirror. I'm not sure what the purpose of this feature is except to add insult to injury the Chris Harris Okay Cool. That's Oh cool. Thanks to meet you come on yeah. We sit down in his office which is covered in every type of Beatles memorabilia you can imagine records toys autographs and a series of giant wall panels that make up their faces. Trevor's Dog Fox an American ESKIMO Sits on the floor in front of him. You'll hear him panting every once in a while. Hi My name is Trevor Alter I am forty the three years old Fox. Let me know if this is gonNA drive you nuts. There's going to be problematic Would you lay down where it gets entertain entertain alright so dominated told me earlier days a hey were swamp. He's having his birthday party or having a small get together at the Crandall House and my memory serves me that I got there around ten ten fifteen in Christmas party there so they were. It wasn't a big party. Just continue with many people. Well when I walked in there I would think maybe there was more than like twelve or fifteen. I mean it was. It was not a lot and the most well at the most of the night were right around the time. When I last saw Christopher she went inside it's doubled? Or if not quadrupled so is between thirty and forty four hundred people. I remember there was a ton of people outside in the backyard. Fish would have been playing right. It would've been a lot of fish probably would have been grateful dead. It probably would have been Dave Matthews. I would think but definitely the that house is a big jam. House they liked the dead they liked. Fish wasn't your hits of the day it wasn't like you know Like Houdini blowfish. Oh fish wasn't the type or seal or no. It would be definitely like older brothers. Grateful dead fish primarily fish guys all all this to this day they all love fish. So that's that would have been what was playing yet when you walk into the Crandall House. There are two when you walked into the leftovers table. In case there's a pool table right there and then there was a little half bars like a bar and they're like two or three stool stool seats. I remember for sure. There's two seats or might have been three stools so I see my friends that are like hey do you want a beer and I think my memories that I had a budweiser I so I would have been sitting first stool and the dom sitting next to me so I walked in and I didn't even notice Kristen Right She walks over over. And this is exactly how this happens to. She walks over. She is wearing final shorts. She's wearing a midriff shirt. Obviously she's sperry very pretty. Okay she walks up to me. I think she might have said Hi. I'm roxy and I went high. And then she kisses me like full on the mouth help with Tom. mcfaul on kisses me and I'm like She grabs my hand and takes me to the bathroom and Mike. I'd heard stories of the crandall way bathroom. The like crazy crazy happens. Like Oh my God. Am I going to be one of those stories. I don't know who this girl is. Only guy not pulls me in their remember. It was dark for a second that she finds the lights and and she immediately walks over to the mirror starts smoothing out her makeup and she says do you think Gli no and then I started like looker occur and she's like the way she's like. Would you think I'm ugly. And I'm like no and I was starting to get more of a sense of who this girl was and I'm like okay. There's no shenanigans that are going on here and she goes okay. I have to go I. You gotta use the bathroom okay. And I'm like okay cool. I don't I don't even know how I got here. Trevor Thinks Chris only motivation for pulling him into the bathroom was to make another guy jealous almost as soon as the door had closed. She asked him who she should hook up with a tall basketball player. Who Trevor had been talking to when she approached him or another guy who didn't know at all? It's not what trevor was hoping for and he's not about to give up that easily. Why pick me right right? This is the first thing if she goes she goes yeah you know while she's doing her makeup and I'm like okay so Kristen's clearly not interested in doing anything more with trevor. According warning to him nothing else happened and Kristen kicked him out. After about a minute ago and I sit down with a stool and do what is going on vinyl chick. And that's the guys that part of your color vinyl chick. She was wearing vinyl shorts. Actually polyester most likely based on everything I've learned roxy quicksilver brand board shorts. It's not all that unusual for cal poly in May but the guys at the Party certainly noticed referring to them variously as vinyl nylon spandex bicycle bicycle shorts even a black skirt in early news reports much of the early investigation focused on Kristen's appearance and behavior at the party. Trevor had one more encounter with her before he left that night out in the backyard. She comes up again in there. I'll leave him alone. Leave Loan Roxie. And I'm like no no no. Please talk to me. And that's now she's like really like an e berated come back here and talk to me and she's like heats me. I'm like no no. She's referring to the basketball player who she apparently had had tried to flirt with but had been rebuffed by and then I said to her cheese dude. What is your sign right because I was in Australia Astrology Spaghetti? Forget twenty and Pisces Pisces. What's your birthday February twentieth? I go well Roxy. That's my birthday. I said we share the same birthday with Kurt. Cobaine really go. Yeah and then. She grabs me by my face. Grabs me rubbing Impulsively in for a kiss quick. Not a good kiss yes and it was the push back. I was like no no no. We don't we don't have to do that or so. And she goes Like another rejection. And she turns around walks up and she walks walks into the house last. Ever Sir Trevor Walks home around midnight stopping for a doughnut and pint of milk at donut. Stop in the California and Taff Plaza before getting back to his place on Toro Street around one. AM According to the list of investigative documents law enforcement interviewed Trevor on three separate occasions as recently as two thousand five. That's probably because they found his trip to the bathroom with Kristin a little suspicious and wanted to follow up on it or because like me. They found him willing to talk and eager to help from the parking lot where she separated from Margarita determined to find a party even if she had to go alone to the forward way. She introduced herself to Trevor. A picture starts to emerge for me me a picture of a girl who stuck in school that she doesn't feel like she belongs at a girl who introduces herself to everyone as Roxy. It's not really clear whether she borrowed that name from her stockton friend or from the Roxy quicksilver short. She was wearing that night. A girl who's freshman year is almost over. Who can't wait to be back in Hawaii and to find some way to transfer to a school on a tropical island and deal with at all? She's trying her hardest to be recognized to stand out from the crowd to break out of her shell to appear bold and confident even if she doesn't feel that way on the inside side it's definitely not the best night of her life but it's probably not the worst either. She just needs to get back to her dorm win. Swampy fells party comes to a close at around. Two A M. A group of students pours out of the front door to start walking back to campus. A freshman freshman named Cheryl Anderson has been ditched by a friend who was supposed to walk her back to her dorm. So another student named. Tim Davis offers to escort her while they're standing around in the front yard talking to friends. Tim Notices Kristen lying on the neighbor's lawn at one thirty seven Crandall Way and helps her to her feet. He tells her she needs to leave. But it's clear that kristen is very intoxicated now and unable to walk on her own. So Tim Tells Cheryl that they need to take. Hey Kristen back to her dorm. Two and the three of them head towards campus a little ways up the road a third student named Paul florus catches up to to them. He's also heading back to the red bricks and offers to help them wrapping an arm around Kristen's waste to hold her up from one thirty five crandall way the walk back to the dorms is about a half mile. It's the route you heard me walk in the beginning of this episode along campus way behind the health services building up via Carta and right on perimeter road. Tim Davis is car is parked in a campus lot. So he breaks with the group. Turn left on parameter Cheryl's dorm in the Sierra Madre Towers is down Grand Avenue so rather than walk up towards smear hall with Kristen and Paul. She asks him to make sure that kristen gets back to her room and says good night. Paul stops instead of the pathway of his his own dorm Santa Lucia Hall which is closer and watches. Kristen walk by herself. The forty or so yards up the path to Mir Hall and they both go to their respective rooms allowing at least. That's what he tells the police next You've been listening to your own backyard episode one face on a billboard. ooh Your own backyard is written produced and hosted by Chris Lambert Associate producer is Alexandra. Wallace special thanks to Dennis Man. Peter King Nicholas Wintry candice suspender plus Derek Payne Jamie Lewis Garin Sinclair Sandy. Arnold April Wurley. Carry Quimby Senate Elissa. Brigham Ceylan Pope Sydney Bryant Lydia de Janeiro Dallas Bronson Giovanna Nicola and Matthew Frank. If you feel that you have information that could help law enforcement with their investigation. You can directly contact. San Luis Obispo Sheriff's Detectives at Eight. Oh five seventy one forty five hundred WanNa reach out directly send an email to your own backyard. PODCAST AT G MAIL DOT COM or visit our website at your OWN BACKYARD PODCAST DOT COM to keep up with new episodes. Subscribe to your own backyard on Apple podcasts and follow us on facebook or instagram. Original Music is by Chris. Lambert they WANNA help keep Kristen's memory alive you can donate to the Kristin Smart Scholarship at Kristin smart dot org or by shopping at Smile Doc. EMMA'S ON DOT com and selecting the charity justice for Kristen How do you feel about this? This is a little bit of an invasion no L. because We've done many interviews in this room. And usually we have the television people arrive and then they had to reorganize our room so this is less intrusive just doing an audio etc etc so now. I'm comfortable with that and I think you're doing a fine job and we really appreciate what you're doing it'd be happy to help you can. Yeah it's interesting having a young person like yourself doing yes so.

Kristen Denise Smart San Luis Obispo Kristin Smart stockton Los Angeles Times Stan Chris California United States Kristen D Peter h King Dan Kristen Babysat Lincoln High School Kristen system investigator Yuba city Margarita
Full Episode: Friday, November 16, 2018

20/20

38:27 min | 2 years ago

Full Episode: Friday, November 16, 2018

"Cam was a very handsome. Handsome, boy, Levy says turn which sadly that was all about to change cried every day for a year every single for sun, barely surviving gunshot blast to the face. They said there was nothing. Like, they said his face was dust assault the hospital. Just how do you go in and look at your son? There's nothing but tonight on an all new twenty twenty. There is something lucked help in the form of a complete stranger a strangers face face transplant. You know, can they actually what is a face transplant? My first reaction like what own son dies. She makes the unimaginable sacrifice to save. Another mother, son. It was a one in a billion match. If he and you have something that somebody else to news, why wouldn't you shave? And I just thought he can get this face. You have no idea what this means with this stuff. Tonight to mothers to sons and a nonstop twenty-five our operation. To bring one back to life. What will the end result? They finally come face to face. Look, I'm just curious as a mother what feels like to know your son's face. Another human body. Good evening. I'm Amy robots and this is twenty twenty tonight. Our is truly extraordinary it might seem like something out of science fiction. But it's reality, and Amy you witness the entire thing. Yes. Over the past six months, we've seen the amazing miraculously transformation that you're all about to see in the face of one young, man. It's remarkable. And seeing knowing what you've been through can you walk us through what you got from will. And what you were able to keep on on the cart. Stark right here. Down and then hunger. Will it's one of the most unusual questions I've ever posed to anyone asking a young man for a guided tour of the features of his face. So when you look in the mirror. What do you say? I. But before Twenty-six-year-old Cameron Underwood wants the world to see the me. He sees he I want you to understand how his former face and the face of another young man, he never knew became one. How together camp was given a second chance at life. So much of this story is not anything that anyone would ever prepare for in their life. It's unimaginable. Like, you said it like how did this happen? Cams mon- Beth Bailey Potter believes, God put her on earth to be a wife and mother her greatest joy her four children, the oldest Julie. And then the three boys Aaron bread and her youngest Cam, they were just so close, and I always took pride in that. I think that there's a bond between the three of us that's different than any other brother. Bon. Close knit family rounded in their faith, cams grandfather, founded the United Pentecostal church in the northern California agricultural community of Yuba city faith is the essence of everything in our family without that foundation. I think the during a lot more to. Punting is a religion for Cam. And the Underwood's is well. Where will you? Now, of course family. We all liked the doors. He grew up on the leg. And he was just natural athlete. He was he was good. Cam which you got show me the game ball. He's he's gifted in so many areas in so many ways. Cool, son. He was to specie. He was always quiet a little more on the shy side. But just a wonderful spirit about him using Gorn. But by the time Cam gets too high school, his spirit, isn't the first thing. Most people notice about him. It's his face the cameras up a, very handsome handsome. Boy, you know, a smile would light up this pace, and it was so evident in his eyes. It's the handsome boy women started noticing him more and more we would walk into places, and you know, ladies heads would turn but for Cam, there's only one girlfriend or so he wasn't over there for sure the couple date for years after high school planning a future Cam starts working in his stepfather's business. Heavy equipment repair. He made so much money. He bought his own house at the age of nineteen. But the family says can becomes a worker Hollick pushing himself working too hard and playing hard to call each other. We meet up usually at camps house, go drink some beers. You know, it started out. It was fun. Twenty-one everyone drinks and goes and has a good time. But can isn't everyone. His mom Beth says even with everything going for him that bright light that had always shown in cams is begins to fade. Good-looking driven self sufficient, and yet at some point you noticed something dark, you know, I have a clear. A memory, and my mind, I saw him walk across the parking lot. And he just looked. So sad and so empty I just saw. What take a went through as an happy turns out. He is the family says Cam kept his loved ones completely in the dark rarely showing his emotions even as the life. He counted on was falling apart like when he and his girlfriend broke up. I think being with somebody for that long. Obviously, there's a huge. Cap left in your life. Now, I know he started going out more. You know party a little more that's on and over the next few years Cam and his closest old cohorts had drifted apart drinking, buddy. Kevin started a family of his own and both his older brothers. Now had new jobs and moved out of state. What impact did their absence have on Cam, his best friends huge? He was alone. He was alone. Well, not completely alone. I spent more time with Cam than anybody. Yeah. We were together nearly seven days a week. This is camps. Uncle Lonnie who admits a big part of their togetherness involved drinking a lot of drinking bed was concerned about campaign. I our relationship as far as the oklaho- and everything else. Did you know that Cam was drinking too much? Yes. Yes. I did. And I was worried, but less obvious is the underlying depression still it's a shock when Cam not so subtly hints. He's thinking of taking his own life. Spell it out. But I mean, I news with a gun anew. That's what he was planning. I mean, it was very alarming. I understand his father at one point remove the guns from cams home because I asked him to. When I went over and got his guns because his mom said he was he was talking about going himself. I I never thought even go that far turns out camps. Father Randy removed, all the guns all won a shotgun. Cam kept in his safe. Which brings us to a Sunday night that June. Good GAM, you know, eight or did you just come down? Stay the night. Okay. I got to his house on lights on which I expected doors unlocked. I walked in nobody in living room, and I figure it he is probably in the bedroom. Lonnie walks into that bedroom and into a nightmare blood everywhere and camp staggering against the wall. I think that is probably the point. I went into Shaw. Sunday, June twenty six twelve seventeen m mom calls and says Cam shot himself, and they're headed to ride out. Cam Underwood sister, Julie started writing in diary as her brother's. Life was hanging in the balance at Rideout Memorial Hospital. Even now her written words are hard to fathom doctors tell my parents camps faces dust and that if he even lives he will not see or talk the twenty four year old put a loaded shotgun to his chin an attempt to take his own life. But it didn't work the blast which commonly happens in these areas before the project all comes out of a firearm. There's usually pressure fire that usually is enough to deflect the face. And that's why most individuals that attempt is Mr. brain in the aftermath searing words from the emergency room doctors, they were not very gentle with us. They said there was nothing. They said his face was dust, and he would not make. They told us she had no tone, not Chen. No cheekbones knows facial structure nothing. They asked us if we wanted to go in and see her, son. How do you go in and look at your son when there's nothing left. How do you prepare yourself for that somehow to see that? Hoping that you're dreaming Waco, all nightmare. That's what you hope for the reality incomprehensible his face. So gruesome, we've elected not to show you some of the photos, the family gave us it really wasn't a face. You know? It was pretty horrific so horrific they moved Cam to a top trauma facility UC Davis medical center it breath away when Cameron came in the unit. It was so devastating and incredibly it appears Cam will survive after all but survive with the fate perhaps worse than death. How do you live without a face? There's no plastic surgery that could ever make him look completely normal. Again. He's going to have to live the rest of his life. Looking and feeling like a monster. Renowned plastic surgeon Dr Li PU does what he can to sustain light implanting twelve titanium plates to keep what's left of camps, shattered skull intact. I took a titanium plate and play this. No over the Rame myth face oppor JAL. He can't breathe or eat on his own Cam was alive. But how could he ever really live cried every day for a year? Single. Change places to midday would would've taken his pain in the day. But I couldn't kind of quality of life. Would he have? If he didn't wanna live with all that he had going for him. Why would he want to continue one? Now. It was six months before camp could leave the hospital, and even then he would wear a mask everywhere he went, and I would see people stare at him, and he would know stem. The worst part was little kids kinda hide stare at him. And hang on mom dad because he looks pitiful. But then cams doctor, Dr poo uttered the words that would change camps fate forever, though at first they sounded more like science fiction than medical science face transplant. I'm thinking face transplant. You know? Can they actually what is a face transplant? We'd never heard of such a thing ever and new sooner did bed. Find herself at the checkout counter of her local Bros. Restore coincidentally thumbing through. This issue of people magazine how faded it wasn't on anything on the outside of the cover that caught my attention. The article inside about a face transplant the night. He's courageous former fire. Firefighter. It was the same story that ABC news Nightline had already covered the story of Patrick Harbison. A Mississippi fireman who was horribly disfigured. Trying to rescue a woman from her burning home. See everything coming down like Cam Patrick would survive but his scalp ears nose eyelids and lips were gone in two thousand fifteen at NYU Langone medical center in New York, Dr ward, oh Rodriguez agreed to perform what was then the most extensive face transplant ever. The operation took twenty six hours. This was the amazing transformation all made possible because of donor a reminder that one man's mortalities. Is another man's miracle. So it's no wonder as soon as Bev learns about that story. Face transplants, like something out of c-, pick up this magazine. And you see the name Dr Rodriguez all she can think of is what Dr Rodriguez might mean for her son. And so I decided that I would go ahead and send an Email the doctor Rodriguez, but Cam will I have to prove he wants a second chance at life was reluctance because of the concern to take aways life during a bout of depression, the fact that he had come this disfigured because correct? The attentive side coming up convincing a savior your saving. Stay with us. Do you spend the night tossing and turning are you dealing with a stiff neck and back for months if you're struggling to get a good night's sleep? You've gotta try purple mattress. The purple mattress will probably feel different than anything you've ever experienced because it uses a new material developed by an actual rocket scientist, the purple mattress feels very unique because it's both firm and soft so keeps everything supported while still feeling really comfortable. Plus, it's breathable. So it sleeps cool, dry your purple mattress with a one hundred night risk free trial. And if you're not fully satisfied, you can return it for a full refund. Your purple mattresses backed by a ten year warranty, free shipping and returns. Here are going to love purple and right now, our listeners will get a free purple pillow with the purchase of a mattress. Just text twenty twenty two four seven four seven four seven. The only way to get this free pillow is detects twenty twenty two four seven four seven four seven message and data rates. May apply long before Dr Eduardo Rodriguez to over the renowned plastic surgery program and NYU Langone medical center in New York when he was just a student. He went to see a movie. Watching John Travolta trade his face for nNcholas cage is in the nineteen Ninety-seven sci-fi crime drama faceoff. You wanna take his face in mine? Borrow Rodriguez had no idea he was seeing kind of preview of his own career. As a matter of fact, I thought possible no one thinks of that movie as we are even happening in the near future. I never thought about that. If transplants were longshots back, then you might say Rodriguez was too. In fact, when he first applied to medical school from his hometown of Miami. He didn't get in was not going to give to something taking care of patients. So he initially went to dental school and eventually landed at the prestigious Johns Hopkins in Baltimore in an amazing coincidence. Dr Rodriguez just happened to be there in two thousand as ABC news cameras captured remarkable moment of plastic surgery resident. Quitting on camera. Her colleagues are stunned to learn that she is resigning as a doctor at Hopkins, and I interviewed for that position. And I got it as he progressed in the field learning skills to reshape bodies. He started seeing soldiers returning home from combat in Afghanistan and Iraq with horrific facial injuries, far beyond what plastic surgery could fix. Magin looking in the mirror every day without an awful face. It doesn't look like it's a complete identity crisis. But the face is part of the body. You cannot conceal. It's such an important part of our bodies. What defines us people see for the first time without a normal face. It's not living. In two thousand twelve Dr Rodriguez did his first base France plant in Maryland, then moved onto NYU where he did his second in two thousand fifteen the one on the Mississippi firefighter, the same one on Nightline the camps. Mom Beppe now knew about cams. Mom sent me. An Email per story was very moving bad Saint you photographs from California. Yes of Cam. What did you see in those photos right away? When I saw the imaging you with that injury. There's no way that could ever make him normal conventional surgery at least on paper Cam was a potential candidate to become Dr Rodriguez third transplant patient. How do you pick? Then who was a candidate for a face transplant. And who isn't that's a very difficult question. Aac question made more difficult when you consider that the procedure costs over a million dollars the hard question for everyone was Cam worth it. How worried where you that? He might try this again that he might try to end his life. Again. Everybody was very worried about the next three thousand miles scouting trip of sorts to Yuba City, California to meet Cam and his family to face the fact that he actually had suicidal idealization of which he tried to deliver on that is still a concern. Then we have to talk about think that anybody knew that it was a test per se. I think we did understand that he had. To be sure that their investment in Cameron was secured. And that he was not the kind of patient that wouldn't take this amazing miraculously gift and throw it away. This is only something offered selected visuals used to race. I need to know that I have fighter in my hands. Get this out to ride. And this person to whatever it takes to have this operation be successful. We should never give up on these individuals that go to this incident in their life. What was it about the drinking that made you feel that way? I think it's important that people understand the severity of undergoing this operations, not a quick fix. Not at all for starters of base transplant needs a lifetime of treatments with harsh side effects to prevent rejection. And doctors say they just don't know enough yet to predict survival beyond ten years. Maybe we can only promise ten years with life. As a mom though. Did that give you pause? It did. But this was camps decision to be made to truck Cam. Track by the end of the visit both doctor and patient were on board being accepted in this program is very much like winning the lottery, but instead of winning five hundred million dollars Cameron wins a second chance at life. For the first time, and that's something when you felt hopeless up until that point some mom, you wanna fix things, but fixing things now would require one more huge step. How difficult is it to find a donor? The donors the most difficult part of it's like a needle in a haystack. Yuba City California is located near the feather river at the base of Sutter beauts referred to as the smallest mountain range in the world. But one of its sons has won a specially steep mountain left decline. So now, he's got a doctor. You've got a procedure. You've got hope, but you need a donor. We need a donor. What was the waiting like it was tough? It's a kind of macabre paradox for a mother knowing that her son's good fortune will only come at the expense and said misfortune of another mother son somewhere sometime this kid who had so much to give and it was cut short. Until it happens to you. You can't believe white it feels like to lose child, especially when. Child stats was rentable. His name was will Sally fishers only child whom she raised his a single mom in New York City. What was his childhood like a had a pretty remarkable. I mean, he was an amazing kid. He was extremely compassionate. He was extremely generous to a fault. And as a mother, I'm sure that's what you are most proud. Yeah. But it wasn't just will spirit that made him special. She says, it was also his brilliant mind. His mind worked in ways that you couldn't believe or he do woodworking one day, he do ceramics and other day the third day. He would do chess will became a child prodigy competing in more than two hundred just tournaments. He won many titles and New York state champion, the Pennsylvania state championship his family seeing comparisons to the legendary chess champ and namesake of the movie searching for Bobby Fischer on more concerned about other things like his friendships. My sister was very boring because she said look at Bobby Fisher. They're all insane doesn't this worry you that he likes chess by his teen years. Sally was worried about well seeing him struggle unable to connect with his peers, it's hard to be a kid when you're have the mind adult. He was diagnosed. Sd with mental illness when he was in college. Sally says the only thing worse than her son Vilnis was the way the world began to treat him. There's tremendous stigma. Society district cards and discard people with mental illness wasn't that. So. Don't want wanna see child suffer. Especially. Suffer when you know that we're still in a situation where the Elvis that he has. Something that. The world isn't care about. Will had to leave college and back home in New York. He was given psychiatric treatment. But Sally says eventually those prescribed medications weren't enough. She was fearing the worst won't for you afraid was going to happen. I knew self medicating. What do you think he was doing with those drugs masking pain? I think that he was trying to feel better. He didn't wanna die. He didn't. I don't think he wanted. And he said, mommy, don't let me. It was a night last December just days shy of New Year's. In Martin fever. But once he was stabilized the hospital wanted to discharge him Sally says she begged them not to and I don't think it was fair to discharge well to care for himself when he was clearly unable to I said, you can't if you discharge him he will be dead and twenty four hours, and it was the next day that I often his fame and he was like this slumped. And he'd stopped breathing. This time it would be too late to save will that brilliant mind declared brain dead by the time he arrived at the hospital. I think there was a combination. Eight. Eight of opioids in his system. And I'm not sure which had been prescribed, but it was both prescribed prescribed to end his lethal combination. It's just such a loss, you know? And you just can't. You can't believe that. He can't. Then he can't live his dreams. But what if through will someone else could still on a breathing machine measures were then taken to harvest will still living precious organs in the midst of your on imaginable grief and shock decided to take measures to make sure that wills organs could be saved to be donated. Actually, it wasn't my decision. Will it turns out years earlier as a teenager will had registered with New York state to be an organ donor? He wouldn't understand logically. Why someone wouldn't be an orbital maybe some of that compassion that you about if you die, and you have something that somebody else can use. Why wouldn't you shave a life? Organ donation is one thing but donating his face. It's not an ordinary thing to be asked to donate. Dr Rodriguez says the request is a very special one handled with utmost sensitivity asked separate time separate consent. You know, the idea. You know faces personal. Yeah. And especially because Cameron suffered his. Injury digit Twenty-three, which was the age Willie was when he died, and I just thought, you know. He can get this kid face and Willie had beautiful face. There was no question in my mind. That this is something that will would want it January fifth two thousand eighteen Cam Underwood day of renewal has come as they arrive at NYU Langone medical center and unplanned and highly emotional encounter in the lobby with Will's mother. Sally, welcome. Welcome. Good thinking, what did she say to you? She's thanking us giving. This gift to us. And then thanking us thank you. You have no idea what this means joy new at this. I don't think I would have survived. Well, Steph headed not been for Cameron and his family. It was very difficult because no matter. The condition of my son. I still had my son. She's lost her son. Yes, you're on the bureau side. Here's what will happen next in one OR doctors will remove the lower portion of Will's face extracting, what they need will spatial muscles nerves. Jaw antiques in the other. Oh, our doctors will Cam removing the scarred damaged portions of his face only to be replaced with wills the requisite parts of two once handsome strangers that together will become one new man. Often people think it's just like putting on a mask. It's not that simple. It's six AM as bed kisses. Cam goodbye. And he has willed into surgery a team of more than one hundred is ready to go in side-by-side operating rooms. What did you have to do to make this face transplant work for Cam face needs to fit like a puzzle? And that's a tricky thing that preparation alone takes more than twelve hours. The actual facial reconstruction will take just as long we prayed for those doctors throughout the night. They're pulling an all nighter there. None of them are leaving. No sleep around the clock. Standing over in that operating room for twenty five hours straight. It's hard to believe, but there's so much adrenaline pumping through your bloodstream, those hours go by like that. This has to look normal face but economic, but in the lead up to those transformational overnight hours one remarkable part of the process has already been completed there are three D masks that you actually create for the daughter, correct? Why were we remove the face? There's no wound to close we have an open cavity. And that's very difficult for members of our team to see that individual. We're very fortunate that we have incredible technology right here on our campus NYU where we can take three tag Raphy, and that can be printed in into high fidelity three D mask, which is an exact replica of the donor. If the comfort to the donors family to was nice, even though it was only me that saw him with a mask that. I could see him today. I think it's more important for people who want to have opened viewings and open caskets and that kind of stuff that looks just like well. Don arrives more than twenty one ruling hours have elapsed when Dr Rodriguez waits for the critical moment in every transplant. He's ever done will the blood return to the face. Pink at this point on feeling. Pretty good blood is flowing. Everything is now working a few hours leader eight fifty eight AM it's a bona fide medical marvel at prayed for that miracle every day for a year, and my son had a nose and the NFL had teeth, and it was just a happy moment. I want to do a nut around. And look I heard her phone I felt after the current plan. And what was that like well? We're really excited. Can you walk us through what what you got from? Well, and and what you were able to keep which brings us back to where we started only this time. Cam is ready for his close up. This is cams new face. Kirk wrote here goes down her mind, and then everything anger will all wheel. And then we'll all. All the lower and upper Ville. That will facial hair. Then technically. Should be able to feel brations. Yeah. Do you see a combination of the former you and will together a little bit? These pictures show cams remarkable progression. Ten incredible months of healing. What about everything else in terms like breathing smiling all the things that faces due to make it work group? You know, grew my nose and run off while. I am shot. I I met campaign speech therapy last summer. You know, what you want to say and not being able to make your body say it. I mean, I'm I'm impressed. Work. Felt how caucus. A new now and. With the baby. Learn how to part of the recovery has been extensive dental work done all towards ROY. That's on any concede. Now that is fitting perfectly it's it's it's regulus. You've come a long way, even since I've met you a couple of months ago. And I remember then you told me you hadn't eaten for so long. Pizza bird. You wanna burger you forget how green it is to just actually be able to eat. Fitting out. All. Herger and. Back home Cam has been able to get other pieces of his old life back playing golf having a catch. He's even gone skydiving. As great as it is. He admits there are still tough days. Remember, this was once a suicidal young, man. Do you still struggle with depression? Not go five more Gregor. Phil bay. Since getting a new face Cam Underwood has slowly but surely been getting used to being out and about but the meeting he and his mom are heading to now is fraud with anxiety. Waiting for them on this Manhattan apartment? Patio is Sally Fisher in a minute. She will once again be looking on the face of her late son a face now belonging to someone else. I know my heart feels. Scared. The loss of lease. Along for moral support the surgeon Dr Rodriguez who made the emotional encounter possible Cam's brother, Aaron and wills family. And then the breathless moment ten months in the making unfolds. Sequel. New. You're the courageous one. And give my son the chance to be normal. So just you look to this. I mean, I guess I'm a little biased. I think it dropped charges. Thank you. I gave her a locket that held to pitcher. Fun pitcher Cam that I love and a candidate shot of will. And I had those pitchers put in the lock it. We'll have beautiful face. They would have been tragedy for to die with them. I feel really happy. What do you want people to take away from this story depression, this ailment depression? It's treatable. Purpose of the story is to someone else. And in the case of will not just giving hope but giving life in addition to his face, his heart kidney liver, and is also donated just extrordinary we are all rooting for Cam tonight. And these are really two remarkable young men into extraordinary families to do this. Thank you. It was amazing. That's twenty twenty and I robot for all of us ABC news. Good night. Have a dream. But don't know where to begin. I didn't want to be limited looking for wisdom for women who've already been there, you will constantly be given the opportunity to lose yourself. Welcome to ABC's. No limits. I'm your host, Rebecca Jarvis. And each week. We're talking to game changing women about success lessons learned along the way. And of course, the worst advice really thought about this worse than vice ever. You can hear new episodes of no limits every week on apple podcasts or your favorite podcast app.

Cam Dr Eduardo Rodriguez Cam Cameron Underwood Cam Underwood New York Sally Fisher NYU Langone medical center California depression Yuba City Beth Bailey Potter ABC Cam Patrick Amy robots Julie Aaron bread Levy assault people magazine
Why Do People Get Cancer?

But Why: A Podcast for Curious Kids

19:35 min | 2 years ago

Why Do People Get Cancer?

"This is why a fun cast for curious kids from Vermont, public radio. I'm Jane Lindholm on this podcast. We take questions from kids kids just like you and we find answers. We've done episodes on all kinds of things like, why do we need sleep? How do fish breathe? Why our feet and hands get all wrinkly in the bathtub. And we've also talked about more serious topics like how babies are made and if it's ever okay to break rule and then lie about it. In this episode, we're talking about a serious and sometimes scary illness. We're going to answer questions that you've sent us about cancer. We're going to talk to a doctor and get the science behind cancer, how it happens and how to treat it. When someone you care about is really sick, it's not just the science that's important to talk about. There are a lot of emotions you might have to our next episode after this one is going to be w-. Twin sisters who are eleven years old. One of them has a type of cancer in her brain. So we're going to talk to the two of them about their lives and feelings and experiences. But for this episode, we're going to stick mostly to the science questions. You've been asking adults. There shouldn't be anything scary in this episode, but if cancer is something your family or your little ones have been dealing with, you might wanna give it a listen. I just to make sure it's appropriate. Here's who were talking with today. Don small and on the director of pediatric cancer at Johns Hopkins, University school of medicine, pediatric means kids. So pediatric doctors or pediatricians are doctors who work to help children get and stay healthy. Another big word you might want to know is on college. That's the study of cancer. So a pediatric on colleges, which is what Dr small is, is a doctor who researches and treats children's cancer. Okay. Here are. I two questions. My question is how do you get sick? Not from other people. Hi, my name's six years old. Noah live in Lockport annoy Mike Klis Trinity's. How do people get cancer. Now, some illnesses are what are called contagious like a cold where germs get passed from one person to the next, and that's how you get sick by the way, washing your hands frequently really is the best way to try to avoid catching a cold or getting other common germs, but some illnesses are not passed from one person to another through germs. Cancer is one of those illnesses. It's hard to imagine how you can get a disease that you don't get from other people or from dirty things. But it turns out that when we're growing ourselves have to divide and that's how we get bigger, and sometimes the cells make a mistake and they grow out of control. And that's all that that cancer is is a disease of the cells growing out of control. If that's what happens that the cells are growing out of control, how does that start? How do people get it? That's a great question. And. And it's something that there's a lot of people doing research on, but it turns out that with children theirselves are growing so quickly for us to go from being a tiny baby in our mother's belly to an adult that the cells have to divide over and over again to make more and more cells. And sometimes the cells make an error when they're dividing. And if that error, let's them grow faster than other cells. They outgrow the normal cells. And so just these abnormals cells growing fast is what cancer is. You mentioned that kids are growing so fast. A lot of adults get cancer and they're not growing quite the same way that kids are, but it's the same process. So an adult, it actually is a very different process by which they get cancer. Their cells are not growing. So actively. F- for some cells like the cells that make up the blood, but their bodies also are being exposed to things like cigarette smoke and other things in the environment and over many, many, many years. These can cause damage to the cells and sometimes the damage cells and up growing when they shouldn't be growing. And so that's why the adults that get cancer have their disease. And so it's actually very different in adults versus children, but there are ways that children can decrease their chance of getting cancer, and that is to never do things like smoking and to make sure that they wear sunblock when they're out in the sun, and these kind of things can decrease the chance of children getting cancer. So there are some things that we can do, whether we're or adults to help prevent cancer. But I wanna be clear. You're not saying Dr small that when someone gets. Cancer, it's their fault. No, no, it's it's. It's never their fault when they get cancer. And there are many, many cancers that we do not have the ability to prevent at this time. And so in those patients, it's a matter of the sell getting damaged. Because as the patient gets older and older, they're just tends to be more damage to the cells and sometimes they start growing out of control. So there are some cancers we can prevent by not being exposed to things like cigarette smoke, but there are other cancers that we can't prevent no matter what we do. We're talking about cancer, but sometimes people will hear certain names for cancer, whether it's lymphoma or pancreatic cancer or breast cancer, or other words, what's the difference between different kinds of cancers. So all the different types of cancers really get there. Name from the type of cells that they come from. And we've actually found out that some of the damage in different types of cancer is actually made up of the same type of damage, but we basically give the cancer the name, depending on what kind of sells it comes from so cells that come from the lymph nodes, we call them foam a- sells the come from the blood cells. We call leukemia cells that come from the brain, we call brain cancer. And so that's how all of the different cancers get their their names. And so it's actually not one disease. It's actually many, many, many different diseases. Well, that leads us to another question about this idea of treatment and different kinds of cancers trust in his seven. I wouldn't Yuba City California, and my question is, why does cancer not have a cure? Why does cancer not have a cure? And you often hear that Dr small, the idea of finding a. Cure for cancer, but is it just one cure will? I think that's a great question from trust in and we wish that we had one cure that would cure all of these cancers. But because cancer so many different diseases, it would be impossible really to have one cure for all of them. They're very different from each other, and there's much research that's going on to show how we can best cure each different types of cancer. Some of the cancers we actually have very, very high rates of cure. Almost everyone is cured of certain types of cancer, and we have others where were not very successful yet and where they're still lot of research going on to try and improve that rate of cure. But unfortunately, I think there will never be just one cure for cancer. It takes a combination of different drug treatments and using the body's own immune system to fight the cancer and many other ways of of targeting the cancer. And that will alternately be the the hundred percent success rate that we wanna have for each of the cancers will have to be a little bit different for each one coming up. We'll talk about some of the treatments you might hear people talking about when it comes to cancer and how you can support people in your life who are sick. But first message for the adults listening. We have support this back to school season from Vermont smoke and cure. Many eat sticks crafted in Vermont, with simple ingredients, antibiotic, free meat, and one gram of sugar or less. They are one nutritious snack that won't come home in the lunchbox use coupon code, but why lunchbox to save twenty percent at Vermont smoke and cure dot com. This is. But why a podcast curious kids I'm Jane Lindholm and today we're answering questions you've sent us about cancer here at, but why we believe you should be able to ask any questions you want and get serious thoughtful answers. We're talking about cancer today because you've been asking questions and we want you to have those answers. We hope though that if your family or someone in your life is dealing with cancer, that you have an adult, you can talk to about how you're feeling. It's okay to ask questions. Sometimes adults might not want to worry the kids in their lives by talking about a big medical issue like cancer, you can tell them that it's okay and that you want to know more. And sometimes adults don't actually have all the answers either. So you might need to reach out for more help. Cancer is a serious illness. And as we heard earlier, there are lots of different kinds of cancer to repeat the basics. Your whole body is made up of. Sells cancer is a disease that happens when the cells in your body grow in an abnormal way, kind of out of control as these cells continue to grow out of control. They can make you sick. Sometimes the cells are in your bloodstream. Sometimes they're in another part of the body, and they make what's called a tumor. Sometimes the cells are in your bloodstream or in the center of your bones. Sometimes they're in another part of the body and they make what's called a tumor, and sometimes they can spread to other parts of the body. Sometimes cancer is treatable and sometimes it's not. There are a lot of big words that surround talk about cancer. We're not going to go through all of them, but let me help you understand a few words that you might have heard or might hear at some point. Chemotherapy. That's a form of medical treatment that is sometimes used to try to help someone with cancer. It uses powerful drugs, powerful medicine to try to kill the cancer cells in someone's body and prevent them from spreading radiation or radiotherapy uses powerful radio waves to target a group of cancer cells that sometimes form what's called a tumor. It's also designed to kill the cancer cells. Sometimes surgery is also used to try to remove a tumor. A benign tumor is not cancerous and won't spread a malignant tumor is cancerous and is likely to spread, and you might hear the word metastasis or metastasized that means the cancer is spreading. And again on college is the study of cancer and cancer doctor is called an on college issed. That's what Dr. Donald small is he works at the Johns Hopkins hospital in Baltimore, Maryland, and he's been answering questions about cancer. We also asked him to talk a little bit about how he discusses this kind of thing with children when they have a diagnosis of cancer. When you talk to children who have cancer diagnosis themselves, that can be very, very scary, and it can sometimes be life threatening on everybody survives cancer, and the treatment can be difficult. How do you address children who get a cancer diagnosis in are very scared. We understand that the children are scared by that diagnosis. It is a very serious illness, but what we tell them is that we have very excellent means of treating the cancer nowadays, and we're actually able to cure most children of cancer seventy to eighty percent of all children with a cancer diagnosis get cured and go on to live a full life through a dull hood into a normal age. And so I think that's something that makes the children feel better that they know they actually have a very good chance of surviving the cancer and living a normal life. If you know someone who has cancer and they're getting treatment, sometimes things happen to their body that changed the way they look and one of the frequent ones that people noticed. Sometimes people who are getting treatment for cancer lose all their hair. Can you explain why that happens and how we might talk to somebody who looks a little bit different who's going through cancer treatment? Yeah, that's that's. Great question. The drugs that we use, what we call the chemotherapy kills rapidly growing cells and some of those rapidly growing cells in our body are the cancer cells. But there are other rapidly growing cells in our body and that includes the hair cells. And so that's why they came therapy causes the the hair cells to die in the heritage fall out. So it's great when kids can be supportive of of other children, their friends that are going through cancer therapy by not making fun of them by asking them about what their treatment is and how they're feeling. And I know that makes our children going through cancer therapy feel really good when their friends come and visit them and and talk to them about how they're feeling. I think can be scary for all of us to know how to talk to somebody who's going through a difficult thing when we don't really understand it or we don't want to say the wrong thing. But it sounds like talking to your friends and being a good friend. And checking in with them, and maybe they can't do everything that they used to be able to do at least not for now, but you can ask them what they can and want to do. Absolutely. The these children that are going through treatment for cancer, they want their friends to still come and see them. They wanna play with them and most of their days, they're feeling pretty good. There might be some days where they're feeling too tired or too sick to be able to play, but they love it when their friends still come to visit them and where they still get to to play with them and where they asked them about what they're what they're going through and how they're feeling. They absolutely love that you deal with treatment and how to address cancer and how to fix it and how to make people well. But I'm sure you've thought about a deeper philosophical question. This idea of why do people get sick and sometimes people say this person, this person I love is such a good person. Why did they have to get cancer when you think about that. At what? What do you decide or what do you think about? Well, first of all, we, we feel obviously that cancer is an incredibly unfair disease because no one is at fault forgetting their their cancer. They haven't done anything wrong at all, and it's there's no rhyme or reason as to why someone gets cancer, and someone else does not. It's a random event and we wish that no one had cancer and maybe one day in the future. There will be ways to look for any signs of cancer developing even before it develops and be able to prevent it. But right now, unfortunately, we have to just treat it as as best we can. And as I say for children's cancer, we do very very well and some adult cancers, they're doing better, but there's still a long long way to go. And that's why research is so important. That's the way that we make treatment better over time. If any of our young listeners. I think they might want to do that kind of research. What do they need to do in school now to get them on the path to being a cancer researcher. It is a long path to become a cancer researcher. They need to do very well in school and then go to college and study very hard and do very well in college and then apply to and the accepted into medical school. And again, worked very hard in medical school, and then they need to train either pediatrics or adult medicine. And then they need to do further training beyond that to become either a pediatric or adult cancer doctor and to do research and have their own ideas about how they think they could find out more about cancer. Why it why? What causes it? Why grow so quickly and better ways of killing those cells. So it's it's a long, long path, but we definitely need more and more children to come down that pathway and help too. Completely cure cancer to the point where everyone that gets it gets cured. That's it for this episode. Big, thanks to Dr Donald small and Johns Hopkins Medical school for helping us talk about cancer. We hope that knowing more helps you feel, perhaps less afraid. If you have someone in your life who's getting treatment for cancer, I want to make sure that all of you listening understand that getting cancer isn't someone's fault, and it's not something you can catch like a cold. Also cancer in children is very rare. And as Dr small said, most cancer that happens in kids is treatable seventy to eighty percent of kids who get cancer, go onto live long, happy healthy lives after their treatment. In our next episode, we're going to talk to a kid who's gone through treatment as well as her twin sister who does not have cancer. They offered to talk to us about what their experience has been like. So stay tuned for that conversation and. Always if you have questions about anything, feel free to send them our way. Have your adult record you using a smartphone. Tell us your first name where you live and how old you are and what you hope we'll answer then send the file to questions at, but why kids dot org. We will always let your adult know before you're in an episode. So you get a heads up if you're going to be featured in one of our upcoming episodes, but why is produced at the studios of Vermont public radio by me, Jane Lindholm and by melody Bo debt. Our theme music is by Luke Reynolds. We'll be back in two weeks until then stay curious.

cancer brain cancer Vermont Jane Lindholm cure Dr small Johns Hopkins Luke Reynolds University school of medicine Don small Noah Dr Donald lymphoma Johns Hopkins Medical school Johns Hopkins hospital Mike Klis Trinity Yuba City California Lockport
Full Episode: Friday, May 1, 2020

Perspective

37:49 min | 6 months ago

Full Episode: Friday, May 1, 2020

"From ABC News this is perspective a closer look at the week's top stories and the stories. You may have missed. I'm Sherry Preston. Coming up new hope for treating covert day. This shows that run. Desa has a clear-cut significant positive effects cities and states planning to reopen and helping to prevent a second wave of corona virus cases reward to do it without infecting more people or overwhelming the hospitals and universities facing tough decisions. Should they open campuses in the fall? And how will they do it or problem? And it's a big one three to see ways to protect those who are vulnerable all ahead on perspective while there are no medications currently approved to treat people with a novel Corona Virus. There are therapies are showing promise and this week there were several therapies being investigated as potential life. Saving OPTIONS RIM disappear the drug which has been used to treat. Ebola is still subject to ongoing clinical research. But it's showing promising early results in a government sponsored trial of more than one thousand seriously ill and hospitalized patients Dr Renisha Metaph emory university. Medical School is one of the teams conducting that trial of severe. Abc's George Stephanopoulos talked about it with him on Good Morning America. You worked on this study. What's the most important thing you want? All our viewers to know about it so having taking care of patients for eight weeks now with many colleagues working hard we have been getting patients better but we are looking to find a medication that helps get them home to their families and make more room for other patients for us to take care of and I think now we have the first glimmer of hope of something that could do that. Is this glimmer of hope. Has Been so exciting so many. This was focused on hospitalize patients. What do we know about what it meant? For the mortality rate for those who had this severe illness so again the data is very preliminary we still need to analyze more data and we have more patients coming for follow up so we need to see exactly which patients this impacted the most and see if we need to add additional medications are additional treatments to improve mortality of our patients overall. And what does it mean for those? Who have milder cases or just developing symptoms? Could this drug be used to treat them as well? So most antivirals tend to work better earlier in the course of disease and so we would definitely like to offer this to patients earlier in their disease. It is an intravenous medicine so it can only be given in the hospital but we are planning to offer this medicine as early as possible. To as many patients that qualify. And what's the next step in your research so weird now that Working with the NIH to adapt the clinical trial of to look at other medications in combination with Ramdas severe. So good we WANNA learn how severe works for patients to it. Works best. In what additional medications or therapies are needed to really improve the outcomes all patients are different. So we want to make sure that we're tailoring their therapy to what their actual needs are. In addition we have seen great advancements in the care of these patients through a wonderful critical care teams and other hospital teams. And so we want to integrate these therapies into that overall model of care that they're receiving that is encouraging news. Dr Mehta thank you for that work. Thank you for joining us. Thank you very much disappear has shown promise in preliminary trials the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. Dr Anthony Fauci said this week. Those shortened recovery time for patients treated with Graham disappear are significant today. The shows that run desa via has a clear cut significant positive effect in diminishing the time to recovery. We think it's really opening the door to the fact that we now have the capability of treating and I can guarantee you as more people more companies more investigators getting hall. It's going to get better and better but ABC's chief medical correspondent. Dr Jennifer Ashton tells. Good Morning America Anchor Amy Roebuck testing. The drug still has got a long way to go. Let's break it down to start with what we know for sure about run DESA. Vr This is an IV medication that was initially developed. Actually to treat. Ebola didn't work so well against Ebola but in a lab it showed good antiviral activity against the other corona viruses SARS and Murs also showing good activity in animals against those two viruses right now. Multiple countries huge international trials ongoing for run DESA VIR against covert nineteen and according to Dr Anthony Fauci the study released preliminary data from the NIH trial revealed that it has shown that it can block. Kovic nineteen right so we heard from Dr Fouled. She giving that good news but he also said there were some caveats. They're always caveats in science. Amy and it is so important to understand as we interpret and analyse and review data. It's not a black or white situation so the theories right now are that yes. Ramdas severe has shown in these preliminary trials that it is safe and well tolerated in critically. Ill patients with cove nineteen. That's very important. Yes it absolutely. Needs more formal study and it may show different effects when it is combined with other medications or therapeutic options for these patients. So all of that. We still don't have a good grasp on at this point all right. So what do we need to learn? Look as these continue because just as the good news from the. Nih study came out. There was opposing news out of China which actually showed Desa Veer showed no significant benefits so ongoing. We need to look deeper at this. Nih data that is very important. We need to see if it can be given to less sick patients because remember this was given to patients in ICU. Settings so we want to see how it behaves if we give it to patients earlier in their disease and we need to see. Is there a clear survival benefit? Does this drug save lives? So those will all be things to be watching the future. Doctor Sue Jonah. Chandra Shaker is a top ear-nose-and-throat specialist with offices in both midtown Manhattan and suburban New Jersey. She started reading about the corona virus in journals and then started tracking clinically in early March. Even this season healthcare worker was shocked and scared by what she saw. She also sees things very differently for healthcare going forward. Dr Chandrashekhar is good friend of mine. We zoomed earlier. This week. You go into the city it's deserted. It's totally quiet. People are scared. Everybody's wearing masks and there is a look of fear in people's eyes that's really similar to what we saw after nine eleven. Yeah and and the differences after nine eleven. We were all in it together. We were not a danger to each other. We weren't going to bring nine eleven home to our families With this there's such a I I have to tell you. I was so anxious that today was going to be my last healthy day on Earth for the first two weeks of this one of the things that is frightening to me. Is this idea that oh where easing up. Oh we'll say it's getting better and I think that people are going okay. I've read all I need to read. I've I've gone on social media. I've figured it out and looks like we're done here time to go and that's when it gets really scary isn't it? Yeah that's it's really scary and this unfortunately sherry is where politics and medicine are clashing and society is getting hurt. So we can't keep our country and our world closed forever like people have to eat. People have to work. People need the mental health of getting away from their families. I for some amount of time during the day. Our kids need the mental health break of being with their friends of doing all the things that we used to do a month ago as we start opening our world for commerce. We need to know that we still need to physically distance ourselves so we still need to be six feet from other people and we still need to be wearing a mask and we still need to be wearing gloves. Even if we go shopping we still need to wash your hands for twenty seconds. We still need to take off our shoes. The secondly entered the home. That's going to happen for a long time. Americans are not used to wearing masks in life. And we have to get used to that. I think we're going to have a real issue getting people back into offices and working because I think there is a very big amount of stress out there and anxiety about going back. Do you think that yeah I really do? And I think when you if you don't have to go in and you've been working from home. Why shouldn't you continue if you are getting all the work of your company done and you don't have to be there and you can be on a conference call and you can be on call? You can be this new three that I think we're actually going to see a difference in the way A significant percentage of businesses do business. What about doctors? I will tell you I am a much much better doc. I can give much better healthcare face to face in a room with you then I can with telemedicine but it's not so bad with telemedicine and frankly we're going to develop things where I can almost touch and feel telematically. We are all making our waiting room safer. Our schedules lighter so that we can. In fact see fewer people You know so. You don't have that at Stereotypical waiting room of a doctor's office where everyone's leafing through the same magazines and coughing on each other right. So that's not gonNA happen again I can see you telemedicine and then say you know what I wanted to do this treatment and if you're not feeling better when we meet again by telemedicine I really do need you to come in and I'm going to get and because you are elderly or have a underlying disease you're GonNa be the eight o'clock patient so you're GonNa get in get out and leave and in my suburban office in Wayne. You'RE GONNA wait in your car and we're GONNA call you in your car and tell you to come upstairs and you're not you're even just like race through the waiting room and get right into the exam room and then race back out and do all the paperwork. All the front desk work can be done remotely. Frankly I think remind to go through a full cycle of this which means we're going to go through essentially a year of this one of the things that this has done has increased all our empathy for fellow human beings whether it's wearing a mask because I don't want to transmit my germs to you reaching out through telemedicine or visiting someone who is by themselves alone isolated. We're all sort of seeing things through other people's eyes but I don't. It's only been six weeks but I feel like that's kind of a big deal. It is a bad time and yet there's so much good that we are finding out about ourselves about our each other about our environment. I mean we have a whole talk about the fact that Ed that disgusting smog over every city has lifted. We could is huge big talk about the fact that the Milky Way was visible from the streets of San Francisco and at the peak of Mount Everest was was visible for the first time in history. We are finding beauty in small things. We are finding beauty in ourselves and in others. I think we have to know that. There's going to be a lot of recovery whether it's physical recovery and I will tell you I mean the clapping for the healthcare workers. This that it's it's wonderful. It's really wonderful. We will need help for a long time. None of us signed up for a constant flow of death and destruction. And I think that's you know and I think the fact that we are seeing such positive outpouring of affection from people is really helping. The healthcare workers the frontline workers. We are respecting grocery store clerks. Like we are as a society respecting rosary storms. That is a beautiful another economic Gut Punch this week from the Labor Department under the three point. Eight million Americans filing for unemployment benefits last week bringing the total during the pandemic to more than thirty million and that may be far fewer than the real total since states have struggled to process claims layoffs accelerated in the country estates moved to contain the virus and even as some places reopen much of the US economy remains effectively shutdown. That's ABC's Aaron Katersky. Among those out of work oilfield workers is. The price of oil has simply plummeted Jesse lanes chief operator of Nimble Crane and Pecos. Texas planes are flying cruise. Ships aren't sailing. Buses aren't moving when you look at it sitting here and you get knocked back two years. That's depressing Mike. Bowman who also works there says right. Now you're just hanging on and keeping their fingers crossed any point you know owners could show up and say hey look you know. We just can't afford to do this anyway. And I understanding. I mean trying to run a business. You're trying to make money. You're not trying to lose money. Another reminder of the economic toll the pandemic is taking the US economy shrunk by nearly five percent in the first quarter of the year the first contraction in six years and likely not even close to how much it will shrink sees numbers are only January through March. The payment protection program was implemented to serve as a lifeline for small and independent businesses. But those who qualify for the loans have experienced some issues just getting the money and the program is ignited some controversy for lending money to large businesses like shake shack. The Los Angeles Lakers workers are protesting and businesses have been saying the money just isn't enough. They want to reopen. Abc's Alec Stone spoke to a few restaurant owners who were pleading with California's Governor to allow them to open their doors backup again in their dining rooms owning a restaurant right now. Sherri as a waiting game. How long can you hold on to survive most doing to go order? Summer selling groceries. But what they're making from that is pennies compared to what they would make with a full dining room. That's why a group of restaurant owners from rural areas of California where there are few of any cove in nineteen cases went to the State Capitol here several days ago to plead with the governor to lead them reopen their dining rooms shirley cats owns a dancing tomato restaurant and Yuba city about an hour. North of Sacramento furloughed are fifty one employees on March nineteenth. We held their hand through the process of unemployment Because it felt it was our responsibility to do so and help them through that process and every day. Since we've been trying to reinvent what new business will look like in our industry loser employees who live in the community their friends sandy and Chris Brown on the Happy Viking Sports Club Yuba city so we are a full service sports pub in beautiful downtown Yuba City we have the best chicken wings in northern California and they were just trying to hold on right now. Chicken Wings and beer aren't always taught to go items instead of a full restaurant. We're serving one person at a time. So we've seen a seventy four percent drop in revenue for the last six weeks you've account has had only one death and only sixteen cases overall thirteen have recovered. Sandy and Chris want some relief from the governor. I never thought we'd see a complete government instituted shutdown economy. You prayer you prepare for you know having those slow months but this is definitely different. When you're down seventy percent you can't prepare for that. They've gone from forty seven employees down to eight and they're struggling just to keep the eight. Some of their employees have worked the Happy Valley pub since it opened twelve years ago. We know their their kids their parents and this is affecting all of them. This is a very very close to us have have been out of work and they're going through severe hardships right now and those you know forty seven plays relying on us for an income to pay rent mortgage those type of things so it's been that's probably been our biggest concern. Is Our employees. Their Fellow restaurant owners argue. California is so diverse that San Diego is very different than Yuba city or. Eureka is very different than La and that stay at home. Rule should not affect the entire state right now. But that's how it's working governor Gavin. Newsom saying he hears them and the changes are coming not today but they are coming. We BELIEVE WE ARE WEEKS. Not Months away from making meaningful modifications and as things loosen up. The governor is promising more local control over orders last control because California is so big. The State is seven hundred seventy miles long back to Charlene Cats. The dancing tomato. She's focused on making sure. Her restaurant survives this and thrives. Moving forward really want to get back to cooking again for perspective. Alex Stone. Abc News in Los Angeles on Friday. We got a little non covert news as presumptive Democratic presidential nominee. Joe Biden former vice president told. Msnbc's Mika Brzezinski that he categorically denied passback positions of sexual assaults issues sexually assault terror rate. No it is not true. I'm saying unequivocally it never never happened. Didn't never happen. Biden was also asked about this idea that he took allegations from people like Brad Kavanagh Accuser Christine Block Ford more seriously than he took. This claim his response. Leaving women means taking the women's claims seriously when she steps forward and and then vetted look into this this. That's true in this case as well. Women have a right to be heard and and the pressure to rigorously investigate. Klenge they may. President trump responded to Biden's comments on Friday saying during an audio interview that Biden Accuser. Tara Reid seems very credible to him. The president who has been accused by multiple women himself sexual misconduct also said. There's a double standard in the way that Brad Kavanagh was treated and the way that Joe Biden was treated coming up. We're going back to college by some university. Say they're ready to reopen in the fall and what some students think about it on perspective after this you see headlines. Across your screen all day. But you're busy. What do you need to know? What's actually shaping your Wolf. I'm Brad Milkey from ABC News. And every morning we start here. It was extraordinary for US watching here in. Singapore this is ABC News daily. Podcast a handful of stories just twenty minutes director Comey thanks for being with US. Newsmakers smart reporting taking straight to the heart of the story. Starting here to listen for free on apple podcasts or your favorite podcast. App FROM ABC News. This is perspective closer. Look at this week's top stories and some of the stories. You may have missed. I'm Cheri Preston. Coming up how deaf blind Americans are living in the new normal and how to perform your best during those work video conferences but I the cove nineteen pandemic has turned education into a massive nationwide experiment with teachers parents and students all trying to figure out how to learn remotely on the fly. New York City announced this week it would be adjusting. Its grading system. All a good number of school districts across the country are just saying enough and ending the year early when it comes to colleges and universities. Some students have been protesting saying online. Learning is not what they thought that beginning when they paid their tuition now. A number of colleges were talking about plans for the fall. Purdue University President Mitch. Daniels set a letter to students saying it plans to separate people by age invulnerability. While limiting class size. He talked about it this week with. Abc's Michael Strahan overwhelming numbers are saying. They want to be here. Are Our applications set? Another record this year acceptances of our offers has set a record which surprised this and I'm hearing every day from students who one L. Will we make arrangements so that they can pursue their education and get their lives? Started on schedule. They wanted our problem. And it's a big one will be to see if we can devise ways to protect those who are vulnerable. So how safe do students feel going back to school? Abc News correspondent. Todd ant has a couple of kids in college he spoke with his daughter lives who's entering her senior year at Florida. Atlantic University in. It's been living in Florida during the pandemic. What is it like living in Florida while this whole pandemic who's been going on? I would say people here like are taking it serious but at the same time. It's a little bit more. I sadly up north like everyone's really like stuck in combined to the House here. People are still going about their day a little bit. More women did Florida Atlantic. Send everybody home. When did you actually have to stop going on campus right after spring break? We didn't return to classes so I would say my spring do remember when my spring break was wasn't late March yes oh campus shutdown no more classes so march eighth your home so this is a little side note. My my mom. Her grandmother passed March. Fourth Liz came up for the weekend of March seventh. Ooh stayed till Monday. The ninth pretty much. As soon as you got back everything really started to blow up. So that's when it got a little crazy so when you think about I mean the way that's been the last couple of weeks and and maybe looking ahead the summer but in the fall. What are your thoughts about going back to school? I mean has anybody talked to you about? It received any guidance about returning to school. I have not seen any talk about opening campus backup. I'm pretty sure summer is going to be all online. That's what I would feel comfortable with like hopefully fall. We could return back to campus but yeah I think for now. Everything is like staying online. Nothing's GonNa Change so this is your junior year. How would you say this is affected it pretty seriously right so certainly? Won't forget your senior. Yeah Yeah I'm thankful that it wasn't my junior year. I mean my senior year if I was graduating while this was happening I think I would feel like pretty disappointed but I think that it didn't really affect me. That much of seniors that that that are not going to have a real graduation that yeah yeah. There's really nothing that they can say. I'm sure that there I didn't we didn't really go into it a lot but I think that like naturally anybody's GonNa feel just disappointed. It's like what they wait for. I feel like in college. Even my cousin should be graduating and is not gonna be able to walk but I did. My my school did email. Everybody that if you're a graduating senior you will get a chance to walk. You did go on campus for a couple of days before it broke out what was but it had already broken out already. Can you feel something general feeling around the campus? When WITH UP THIS IS WHY. I say no because I had spring break. I don't really remember like before spring break. I think that it was like a topic of conversation but it was nowhere near how it is being treated now so you weren't really on campus then blew no. I never was like on campus when this stuff happening. I can't even remember being there when you know this stuff broke out. You know from my perspective appear. It's a seemed like Florida was just a little more relaxed about it because there weren't that many cases. Yeah was your sense. 'cause you going you know you go to buy food you go to the supermarkets and all that. I mean that's unease or or. Do you think people were not gonNA happen here? No it was definitely a sense of unease like now I noticed that most stores you have to have a mask to come in before it wasn't mandatory now. It is mandatory People definitely really scared. Like I remember it when it first quarantine I was serious and it is still a serious now like every there was like no cars on the road now a little bit. It's still a thing but it's died down like there's regular like five o'clock rush hour traffic I still think it's like more Easy going here. I guess. Maybe it shouldn't be but I still notice like people were taking it serious like nowhere near like New York and New Jersey. That makes sense it goes. So here's the series. The big serious question the ten million dollar question. Your mother and I wanted you to come home. Ah You really fought us on this whole thing as it served as it turned out young lady. I think about I think I think it worked out in the end. You being down there. You probably were a bit safer than you would be if you were up here. Plus I think you would have you know pulled your para out of your head in with everybody here. I just have a little slightly more freedom here because I can still leave the house like I'm not going to get fined for being on the road. Yeah I think it did work out that I'm here. Even though I still wish that I was able to come home and visit It probably did work out better. I stayed here look through miss. Everybody here I do miss everyone and just like you know dinners and overhead. Some great dinner set. You really sorry to now. I know that is something missing out on and just in fun to be in the House of everyone but I don't know you know how I get a little antsy. Sometimes you'll be back soon. Tia have you been eating well So there's how you've been feeling health wise lately I feel fine. I got a sore throat probably like a few weeks ago and like I was freaking myself out a little bit about it but it was just you know sometimes when you sleep with air on and the the fan. It's normal other than that. I've been feeling fine. I just I'm like a very clean sanitary person to begin with just been washed my hands and you know whenever I go out to taking the necessary precautions. Sueno whenever I come home imagine being unable to see or hear throughout all of this the one cents. You truly rely on that sense of touch. That's also been taken away from you. And a lot of ways. There are thousands of Americans for whom the last month and a half has seriously challenged their ability to thrive ABC's Devon Dwyer reports on deaf blind Americans grappling with isolation and social distancing during the pandemic for most of us sites and sounds of the Kobe. Emergency had been inescapable the number of cases of Kuroda virus spiking here in the US. This is a terrible experience but for some Americans. The scope of this outbreak has been uniquely difficult to face. My name is Philip Wismer. I am line. Philip wismer a student at Gallaudet University in Washington. Dc His one of an estimated forty thousand Americans facing cove in nineteen while unable to clearly see or hear have not gone off campus since March eighteen. I only come out in my dorm. Food the Mayo. And that's about it. It sounds loaning. Yeah it is sometimes I do feel Lonely my other friends. That are completely blind. Feeling very very isolated deaf-blind Americans survive by touch hand over hand to communicate fingers on Braille signs for mobility hugs and handshakes to feel connected. Experts say deaf blindness is a spectrum not everyone experiences complete darkness and total silence but touch is critical and now comes with significant health. Risks at many guides are fearful of being touched and touching back twenty eight year old Tyler Samuel of Nashville Tennessee. Says she's fighting that loneliness relying on her partner for help with daily tasks a genetic condition since birth. His degraded her hearing and sight or minute. Just really worried that I wouldn't find that independence and when you find it you don't WanNa lose it and so pretty kind of chipped away is It kinda lowers your self. Esteem Samuel still walks to work everyday by herself. This is my now kind of empty wall comb Pediatric Surgery Coordinator Vanderbilt University Hospital. She's a freelance opera singer with dreams of going big but the pandemic has prompted some soul-searching brand ago to commit and she was very young and thirty early thirties. And it kind of prompted me to go ahead and get my match directive. My will together something that I wanted. My wishes to be not on a trip to the hospital. What Deaf Blind Americans told? Abc News. They fear most is an assumption in a lot of medical communities. That it's better to be than to seem. Harbin and Girma is a leading advocate for the community. I would be deeply terrified of I would not get communication access that my will not get the care needed if I were to get the virus and go to the hospital. She says it's a fight for equality. The daughter of an Eritrean refugee grandma is the first deaf blind woman to graduate from Harvard Law. School in two thousand fifteen president. Obama recognized her as a champion of change. When I'm asking you the questions today hopping you're actually feeling my questions with your fingers. Ask Me Questions. I feeling the preston with Special Braille Keyboard and guide dog Milo by her side. Girma in an informal network of deaf blind advocates are determined not to be forgotten certainly not succeed to have a disability and Giogio with duck linus. I think makes people very uncomfortable. Generally Rebecca Alexander of New York City wants the world to know that deaf blind professionals can pitch into. She's volunteering her services as a counselor to hospital workers on the frontlines and just knowing that even someone like me who the community I think at large if they knew how limited by vision in my jury was they might not consider via someone they reach out to for help and it does feel good to be able to provide. That Ashley Bent a new coordinate services for the deaf blind in North Carolina says police in rural areas are checking on residents who don't have technology to communicate. They contacted us which was beautiful and so we were able to work with the officers. Who HAVE THE APPROPRIATE TV to go in and check on step consumer to make sure that they were safe. That so important. Because we're all going near Seattle deaf-blind Sisters Nancy and Debbie summer sticking together through it all without Connecticut. We thank goodness. We have computers talk to each other persistence to stay connected to contribute to the recovery. The deaf blind community raising its voice in its own way. What do you like into sing these days? I left Queen. I liked the Olive Bohemian rhapsody. And like so many dreaming of that big escape after. Kovin what I would like to do after this is all over with steak appification. I'm David Wire in Washington you've done. We've done it for this show. Seems like everybody's doing it for their jobs zoom calls. You probably figured out by now that sometimes they don't always go as planned following some pretty funny in at least one pretty disturbing incident involving a California public official recently perspectives producer. Abc's Eric Malo us some tips on zoom etiquette. A lot of us have found ourselves spending more time in front of a camera on Zoom Google meat and other APPs during this pandemic unfortunately some of us have had some embarrassing moments in some of those moments have gone viral. Take take what happened with Vallejo California Planning Commissioner Chris. Platts R recently. He want introduces pet to his colleagues onscreen online and there. He is throwing his cat off the screen. He also cursed drank alcohol on that video. Call he resigned this past week. Then there's this news reporter filing a report from her bathroom so people have to do this much longer but she did not know that her husband was behind her in the shower. And then there's Jennifer people other professions. Don't what happened. Who needed a bathroom break and brought her device with her. Only problem is she forgot to turn off. The cameras saw nothing unlike in. Ups initially the final leg or correspondent will remain on good morning. America was seen wearing very short shorts below his sued. The camera which he himself was operating was pointed a little too low. Guess what that went viral to. We'll took it in stride. I tried to take life seriously but not myself so I've had a good laugh at this but I don't want anyone to think that I don't really respect and love my job and I've had a lot of fun and I know everyone else has to allow Z. Cam Robert so what are the rules for? Zoom Advocate. How do you keep from making sure this doesn't happen to you? Let's bring in our Dana woman editor in chief at the tech website and gadget. She has videoconferencing tips. Keeping Laptop on your desk away from your face on calls where people have leaned in a little too much and then you just get a screen full of somebody's face and that can be a little intense in that dirty laundry. It's probably best to put that in a hamper. Also been on calls where you can really see in the background. That someone's house is a mess. Or maybe you're staring at a pile of laundry on the floor to me. That's actually a little more intimate and a little more of a Faux Pas but those things said seem like Faux Pas. Your colleagues will likely understand. I don't think there's much to be ashamed of. Your baby is crying or your pet is making a lot of noise. I think people can get very defensive and apologetic about that. Actually make a lot of people. Find that endearing so clean up your space and keep a little bit of space between you and your camera and while we may not have to put on our very best outfits try to dress professionally hit. Where can I find your comfort zone? Everyone will probably in this period of some sort of standard is going to be different from one person to another over. How far do you want to sink in your personal hygiene and your business casual work from home? Where or you start to feel. Like you've crossed the line. I think many of us have probably progressively loosened up. Finally just make sure before dialing into that zoom call. You behave as you would if you were going into the office. Obviously you should not be throwing your reporting for perspective America Malo. Abc News from ABC News. This has been perspective. If you want to listen to any of our past shows you can subscribe to the prospective podcast. Give us a review. Tell us what you think. It really does help. You can find it on Apple. Podcast spotify stitcher wherever you. Listen to your podcast. You can also find this and other. Abc News shows at ABC News. Podcasts DOT COM perspective is produced by Eric. Malo thanks for listening to ABC News. I'm Sherry Preston now more than ever trust. Abc News Radio. Something that we all have to deal with together. We're answering your questions. Some kind of a cloth barrier over your nose adding special coverage the reach of this virus it touches everything from what we wear how we feed our with straightforward reporting the trump administration pushing states to reopen businesses. Some governors are pushing back saying this time it concern and after it. Abc News Radio is the most trusted source anytime everywhere.

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Still burning

Today, Explained

18:20 min | 2 years ago

Still burning

"Marathon, you've been out there in northern California. Reporting on the fires for vox, what exactly happened up there in paradise California as best as we can tell the fire ignited around six thirty AM near campfire road on Thursday, November eight this is in a region of California, that's kind of rural. It's far from some of the bigger cities. It's in the hills. It's very forested area. The areas are actually right next to a couple of national forests, and it's not very densely populated. But there are definitely a lot of trees and many of them were ripe to burn. They were essentially giant matchsticks? California's you may know has been facing years of drought upward of six years. And also bark beetle infestations that have been spreading since two thousand ten and that's led to a record number of dead trees throughout the state one hundred twenty nine million. The wind had been picking up their seasonal winds here in this area. That can gust up to seventy miles an hour. So at one point this fire was spreading a rate of about a football field per second. And right in the path of those. Flames was a town called paradise California. This is a small community of about twenty six thousand people. It's not very wealthy, but most people their own their own homes, a lot of trailer and mobile homes as well. And once the flame started approaching. I mean, very rapidly engulfed the town trees were running right between houses. And so residents reported hearing tree trunks exploding propane tanks going off sounding like bombs more than one person told me it sounded like a war zone. One woman. I spoke to Lana Jimenez. She told me that it was so surprising. The fire was burning away. She had never seen before it wasn't burning from the ground up. But rather it was blowing through the air. She described it as a can of spray pages sprang fire onto trees, the fire was flowing, basically horizontally through the air, and it was something that she had never seen before. I talked to a resident named roof Jenkins who kind of made it pretty clear just how fast this fire spread. I mean, she recalled waking up and seeing the sky turning orange trees all around out of the sky, but she took her kids to school. And by the time, she got back home. She realized the situation was a lot worse than so she scrambled back to school to pick up her children show up Ponderosa elementary school. And it's like a war zone. People can't find their kids. Teachers are frantically loading kids on us. They told me my kids who'd be all front. My kids worn out front. Luckily, I found him by the time that we got a home. The fire was all around our house. We didn't have time to get anything by husband grabbed my baby and his diaper through. All of our animals are cats dogs everything in all three cars that we possibly could since this is a small town. There aren't a whole lot of roads going in and out. And so that was already one big problem. And as they were getting out of town, you know, everybody in this twenty six thousand person town and also the small towns around it were on these narrow highways heading toward Chico away from the fire and very quickly. The highways became congested forcible there's a ton of smoke it hurts visibility. There's fire racing along the side of the highway as well. But just the traffic built-up up such that people were waiting hours and hours just to cover that narrow fifteen mile distance people ran out of gas people had to get out and run on foot broke Jenkins told me that she had to get out of her car and try to retrieve her children who are in a separate car further back street starting to fall around us. My kids were separated in a different. Car. I had EMT blocking means how I couldn't get to my kids. So I started walking down the road and left. My husband and our dogs inside. Conroy elementary school. Evacuation orders for the carnage. They save you need back you into poem on one one. It was a very heroin escape and a lot of people barely made it out. And unfortunately, it turns out many people did not host to eighty people have died, and it's kind of alarming how died several of them did die in their own vehicles. Trying to flee the fire which just kind of shows how quickly it moved. And how even people who are in cars couldn't get out of harm's way. Fast enough at this point the campfire is still burning. It has torched more than one hundred fifty thousand acres more than ten thousand homes. It's force more than fifty two thousand people to evacuate, and it's left about a thousand missing officials say that this these are people that family members and friends have reported missing. And they're just not accounted for. So we really don't know what their current status is workers are still searching house by house to look for human remains that number might still go up. It might go down. We don't know yet. We're still in the early stages of getting through this fire and. Appaling with what it's done. So these fifty thousand evacuees where are they gonna go? That's the big question right now, it's kind of ad hoc some have taken shelter in nearby, Chico. Some have gone south to Yuba city some have gone north to red bluff a lot of the small towns in the area are housing many of the evacuees, but remember these are small towns, they don't really have a lot of room to take in a whole bunch of people and this is an area that's already been afflicted by California's housing crisis as well. There's very limited new homes going up. So in some cases, we've had residents just camping out in tents outside of parking lots. I mean, it's important to remember why people move to paradise in the first place. I mean, this was an affordable town that was close to nature. It was a place where people could actually own their own homes were middle class and working class. People could actually afford to live, and it was lovely. Lot of residents love being close to nature for a lot of folks. Even after this fire, even knowing what could possibly happen. Their main goal is to go back and rebuild paradise. Conal Brian needs a friend after twenty five years hosting late night, TV Conan realized that the only people who are coming to holiday party were the people who work for him and over the years despite doing thousands of interviews Conan never really made any lasting friendships with any of his celebrity guests. So he is now started a podcast to do just that if you've ever wanted to hear cocoa, go deeper, go more playful and go free from FCC regulations. This is the show for you Conan O'Brien hangs out with the people whose company he's enjoyed most over the years in an attempt to find some real lasting friendship. The first guest on the show, someone you may have heard of his name appears to be will for rail cutting O'Brien needs a friend wherever you find your podcasts. Mary you're in paradise. You've been in northern California covering these fires for the past week. What's it like there? I mean, what does it smell like smoke ash? What's what's in the air? Well, if you've been to the Bayer, you know, it's notorious for its fog, but this is a kind of as that persists throughout the day, and it's dense, and it actually kind of hurts to breathe in in San Francisco, the air quality as reached unhealthy levels you see people walking around wearing masks. And then as you go further north closer to where the fire is they are just gets denser thicker and more dangerous in Chico. It looks like at sunset throughout the whole day. I mean, the smoke they're just kind of obscures the sunlight and Basques the town in this kind of golden twilight the air there, smells, dusty and dry actually kind of sweet as well. 'cause you know, we're burning trees here and trees, actually, don't smell all that bad when they burn. But those particles are still extremely dangerous. You see children playing outside wearing masks. If you stand still long enough, I mean, you'll you might notice that you're getting covered in a little bit of dust. And then if you get closer and closer to where the fire actually burned inside paradise where I went there still ash falling from trees, there's a thin layer of dust on the road. Everything has sort of this gray haze to it. And it's just very ethereal. And it's also extremely quiet. There aren't even leaves rustling most of those have burned away. So it's just brick chimneys standing among forests these burned out dead trees and all around you have workers in white suits probing. The remains with cadaver dogs just hoping maybe that they can identify. If anybody else was left behind. You engine kids playing outside. Is it still is is a dangerous to be outside in California. I mean, how bad is the air quality at one point the air in northern California with some of the worst in the world. And when air quality gets that hazardous. Yeah. Is dangerous. I mean, the recommendation is not to go outside unless you absolutely have to for people who have breathing difficulties problems like emphysema or even asthma that can lend you in the emergency room. It can also exacerbate issues like high blood pressure can aggravate things like heart attacks. So yeah, it's definitely a risk and people are being constantly exposed to. I mean, a lot of the stores right now in that area are sold out of these and ninety five masks the masks that are rated to protect against the kinds of particles that are in the air right now. So there's a looming health concern. I mean, if you walk around where some many of the evacuees are staying you'll hear coughing all throughout and you've got this fire burning in northern California. And. Making a mess of air quality. There's also a fire burning in southern California. Right. Yeah. That's right. There's the Wolseley fire close to Los Angeles that's burning through shrub land and grassland, and yeah that's causing a lot of damage there as well. But not quite on the same scale as they can't fire in the north Trump. Visit northern California over the weekend. He was walking around with governor Jerry Brown governor elect Gavin Newsom as big as they look on the tube. You don't see what's going on. But did you come here? And what we saw at pleasure. What am right now? But what would your so we just left pleasure? Cardis. It will just at paradise is just. Just not acceptable. He, of course, tweeted, there's no reason for these massive deadly and costly forest. Fires in California, except that force management is so poor billions of dollars giving each year with so many lives lost all because of gross mismanagement of the forests remedy now or no more federal payments. He actually holding money from California during this statewide emergency. No, he hasn't actually made good on that threat. He has approved emergency disaster aid for California. But his point they're just about, you know, blaming forest. Fires. I saying that there's no reason for this other than mismanagement it's important to remember that forest. Fires are natural. They are part of the ecosystem even without humans being there. It's something that would happen pretty frequently and regularly. It's an important way to clear out dying brush, it's important way to help certain plants germinated helps restore store nutrients to the soil. There are some issues with how that land is being managed though. As people have moved closer and closer to forest. The strategy has been to suppress fires rather than to allow them to burn naturally. This is to protect property and to protect people's lives. By the consequence of that is that trees build up the forest becomes more dense and a lot of decaying brush starts building up. And then when you have years of drought all that dries out, and that leaves a huge volume of fuel that's just ripe to burn leading to larger and more destructive fires. So the paradox here or sort of the irony here is that our habit of trying to put out fires aggressively has helped fuel some of the larger more dangerous blazes. But who's actually at fault? Here. Who manages these forests is at the state is at municipal dese who's who's doing a good or bad job of taking care of this. That is a big problem. I mean, there are three main interested parties here there are the private landowners, people who own property and homes and businesses. There's the state of California which manages some of the forest, and then there's the federal government which. Manages some of the forest all three can control or have jurisdiction over some parts of the forest and all three of them have competing interests, and they have different strategies for managing these forests. And that kind of leads to some of the conflicts that we're kind of dealing with right now big issue, though, is that as far as we know most of the fires were actually burning on federal land. So it's not something you can actually blame on California's land management practices to Donald Trump is talking shit about California's management of its forests when the majority of this land is actually controlled by the federal government. That's right. It's controlled by the US force reservists or it's being managed under the department of the interior and since they're under federal jurisdiction. California doesn't really isn't allowed to go in there and start cutting down trees that they think are dangerous and in recent years, the federal government has been cutting funding for fire suppression programs and also forced management programs in the Trump administration, though has called for more logging. And they've pitched that as. As an alternative or as as a solution to this. But it really isn't because loggers want the biggest and healthiest trees that have the most resale values the big problem that we're facing right now are these dead trees, those have very little resale value. But they're the ones that are the biggest threat, and it's really hard to get any private company. Interested in cutting down, these Deb useless trees, and there's one hundred twenty nine million of them. So you have it's a huge endeavour to try to limit these fire hazards is there any chance that the president's trip to California could like foster some better federal state relationship that might help prevent these kinds of fires in the future. I don't think the president is going to be playing too close of a role, but interior secretary Ryan Zinke was also here last week. My fourth time to California all which had been fires. And every time I come back and say, this is the worst fire. I've seen yesterday is the worst fire I've seen and Zeki himself. Also, you know said some. A controversial things about the fires. He blamed environmental terrorist groups for increasing fire risks, but he's used to have more of a grasp as to what the factors are here. This is not the time for finger pointing this is the time to make sure that we address putting out the fire. We look at paradise to make sure we look at who's on accountable. Make sure we give aid whereas necessary and begin beginning recovery process, in some cases, it's going to be long. So that like the introduce the great governor. Is the state taking anything away from this are people taking anything away from this anything to be learned from from all of his loss. I think so I think looking at a fire like this. Where all the worst case scenarios all converged. It kind of shows what happens if we do nothing if we continue doing business as usual approach to how we live among fires how we live with this risk if we continue building in these high risk areas if we continue driving up the temperatures around the world, and if we continue not actively managing the forest and reducing the fuel loads. All that means is in the future. We're going to continue to see larger more destructive and potentially deadly. Fires. Who may our earth reports on the environment and climate for? I'm Sean Ramos firm. This is today explained. Spencer hall. You're the host of the seem smart podcast from that's be nations on the vox media podcast network. How did you kick off the season of it seems smart? We started the season with the tail of Albert bell and the great bat caper. This involves a major league baseball player filling a bat with cork, which you're not supposed to do getting it comes gated by the officials and then one brave teammate deciding to get it back by committing an act of cat burglary through the roof of major league ballpark. What what team was this again? This would be the Cleveland Indians in nineteen ninety four versus the Chicago White Sox Spencer. I feel like I'm starting to pick up a theme of the podcast, which is everyone in professional sports looking for ways to get ahead and cheat. Yeah. And one other theme of the podcast is that typically when people try to do this. It goes sideways fast. Okay. So people can find that one. That was the first one that kicked off the season. That's the first one you can find it. I tune Stitcher wherever you get your podcast. Just, you know, search for it seems smart. Art of the vox media podcast network from Espy nation dot com.

California Chico roof Jenkins Conan O'Brien federal government Ponderosa elementary school vox media football emphysema FCC US heroin Lana Jimenez Yuba city baseball Cleveland Conroy elementary school Spencer hall Los Angeles Albert bell
Theories And Headcanons That Make Movies 1000x Better

The Cracked Podcast

1:10:16 hr | 2 years ago

Theories And Headcanons That Make Movies 1000x Better

"With all the stresses of life. It can be easy to lose perspective on what really matters. But Heineken believes that life is about being with friends and opening yourself to new experiences because when you live spontaneously and embraced the unexpected, it's a chance to create new stories and connections. You just have to be open to it. So enjoy a refreshingly cold full-bodied Heineken lager today with its deep golden color light, fruity aroma, mild bitter, taste, and a crisp clean finish. Cheers. Hey, there folks welcome to another episode of the crash podcast. The podcast all about why being alive is more interesting than people think it is. My name is Alex Smith and I'm head of podcasting here at cracked. I'm also known as Schmidt. The clam also known as Schmidt e the champ. And I am also also here to make Tom hardy movies, even better or or in the case of that venom movie, maybe less bad. I don't know. You have your opinion either way. Our topic today is all about fun. The topic is berries and had canons that make movies a thousand times better. So it's all about ways of watching movies and shows that enhanced the experience just because you decided to enhance it, you have that power. And when I said head cannon, that sort of a tumbler, the blogging service term for something that you just decide is true. Even though you know, maybe it isn't. And one of my favorite head canons that I've seen on tumbler is about Tom hardy. It is that Tom hardy is a dog trapped in a human's body. I know that's probably not true. True. I know it also makes all of his movies, more fun makes it lay of the way the way he's physical, the way he's friendly. Very good time. Also in real life, he loves dogs. We're gonna foot Newt a Vanity. Fair piece. That's a history of his relationship with dogs, which is surprisingly close. Also, that's an extra fun head cannon. If you're watching the movie Dunkirk because then it becomes about a hero dog flying a plane, which is silly and funds suddenly have a whole new movie. And that's kind of the idea today. You can do it with almost any actor to like a common one is taking Arnold Schwarzenegger and imagining that he is a Terminator in everything. So right when he's in other films, he's just researching humanity and also kind of winning us over for future emergencies. We're having a good time. It's going to be a fun episode. Also, the ones I said just now we're very silly. These can also be very, very resonant and very, very meaningful. And our guests today is the world champion of both fun and resonant pop culture stuff. I'm joined by guy. Branam guy is an. Credible comedian, we're gonna link. His stand up special edible Yeltsin may know him as a panelist and writer from Chelsea lately writing elsewhere for the Mindy project and Billy on the street. He's also an actor. He's the host of talk, show the game, show the host of the pop culture. Podcast, pop rocket so much stuff, and maybe most relevant to what we're talking about today, guy has written an incredible book called my life as a goddess, a memoir through unpopular culture, and it's an incredible piece of writing. It's why I thought to bring him on this episode because it is such a meaningful tax on his whole life and being a person. And it does it within a lot of times really silly stuff like the second x. men movie or lots of reality. TV is really incredible. Guy also has a fascinating life story on his own. He grew up in the red state version of California with a fascinating family and an underappreciated sexual orientation, and a mind that wished his pop culture and his world spoke to who he was direct. Tely. I cannot wait for you to hear the way guy uses his agency as an audience member to get the stories that he needs and deserves out of shows movies and more because it's something that we all can do. So let's hear about it. Please sit back or sit, Tom hardy set set set. That's a good time, hardy either way. Here's this episode of the crack podcast with guy Branam I'll be back after we wrap up talk to you that. I love your book among your many, many works and things as fantastic. Thank you. I like my book as well. It is. It was nice to do something that was just like, all me didn't have to satisfy anyone else. Like it's fun writing for TV shows. It's fun doing stand up, but it was also fun to do something that didn't have to like standalone and sixty second chunks, or you know, make network happy. So 's sponge right when you dive very deeply in it in terms of things that happened in the world or your on opinions on things, do feel so conscious about the fact that some people have been like, oh, this was not what I was expecting from this book. It's that gay guy from Chelsea. Lately. I was expecting funny stories where he vomited on himself as a child, or you know, like some people just want like material written down, jokes, jokes jokes, but I figured this book should feel like I had had two drinks and had cornered you at a party and was making you listen to me talk about something. And I, I think that I. Decide that effect. I agree. Could you feel the sweat coming from the book? No. Well, I heard your stand up album and you call out sweat and s. so I think I brought that to it. You know what I mean? Good. I just kind of felt that on my own good. Yeah, should sweat is a part of me being around you is feeling my my cloak of humidity. Then in this way, we are brothers. We had. We're talking today about movies and TV, but especially head cannons and theories and things that make them even better exciting and one whole chapter of the book. It gets into all kinds of things, but it kind of brings together the graduate and the little mermaid and my best friend's wedding in terms of sort of who should be the protagonist who's the main character well, and it's also a little bit my evolution of an identity as a gay person in a world that doesn't tell stories about gay people round, you know. But I think that all of them really are stories that are just tempting you to not give shit about the protagonist, you know, in various ways. And I think of the three of them, my Besson's wedding is the most mature because it is this side character, this sassy, gay friends that has been sort of attempts have been made to copy it in so many rom com sense. And all of them have been pathetic imitations. But the thing is is like Georgia's ten. Tempting jewels away from this normative rom com plot. And in the end, that's what happens is the happily ever after a whole lot more ambiguous and uncertain. And that's a queer story land Georgia's Rupert, Everett's character. And then jails, Julia, Robert? Yes, I forgot. She was named Jolson like they didn't even they were like the character, Julia Roberts? Yes. You can't. You can't look away from it. You know, really is Julia Roberts at the height of her powers, you know, it's hard to right. It's hard to remember. She's only real life twenty-seven at that point in time. Like it's only eight years after she was so young when she made steel magnolias and Pretty Woman. I guess she was like twenty. And this is, you know, only like eight years later, but it really was we like new all of who Julia Roberts was. I mean, I like it when an actor or particularly actress just downshifts into we all know what I do. You know, like Carrie Fisher for the last four decades. Of computer time. When like with your your soapdish, you drop dead, Fred, Wynn, like when Carrie Fisher showed up, it was like, all right. She's going to be in four more scenes going to kill all three. Pretty much just going to be carry. Fish k. Fisher is one of my mom's favorite performance ever and it's because of both Star Wars and the blues brothers where she is a flame thrower and destroys a building. She says, so young and adorable in the blues, brothers, like cocaine, Carrie Fisher was always the best Gary shirt. I mean, but pills Carrie Fisher was also very good kind of how you about my favorite all the romantic comedies people I'll bleed in two thousand eleven America made two films about people having casual sex who fall in love. I was in one of them. Yeah, the the bad photocopy of Rupert Everett and that one. But there was another one with me like Cuny's where Woody Harrelson hit played the bad photocopy of Rupert Everett, which is a mistake. But the most important thing about that is that Neil lacuna says an opening monologue that she delivers while walking to a african-amer. Friend who then shows up and no other part of the move. We had come to a point by two thousand eleven that everyone knew the tropes of romantic comedy enough that it's like you put a woman of color next to her, and we understand that that is probably her roommates, and she talks to that person and then that person goes away and there is nothing else from her in the entire movie, and it is just so reflective of like how objectify and operationalizing that of non white and beautiful best friends broadcom's well, they're they like the engine of a car or something at this point, right? Like what ten things go in exam together and then it goes. But I feel like that's why people fell out of love with romantic comedies. And I like that net flicks is trying to breathe some life back into them, but I think it will also take some ingenuity and some surprises. All of those Katherine Heigl movies with the same the over and over again. And as far as that romantic comedy, element of there is a gay character is is Rupert Everett. In my best friends wedding, kind of the first trend setter there is as far as big American ones putting someone in like that. Yeah. I mean in the book I kind of talk about the way that in movies, gay people between nineteen eighty three and nineteen Ninety-seven our representation really shifts like before nine hundred eighty three. We were nefarious characters or weird broken characters, and then come nineteen Eighty-three of the specter of HIV and gay people exist to be sad. And you kind of have a George Carlin in the prince of tides, which is in Aram com. He is sort of like occupying that role and you sort of are feeling it. And then like George really comes out as this non tragic sophisticated figure who is like helping informing and trying to encourage our heroine to grow. And then you start seeing more sassy, gay friends showing up just as comic relief, and it is really interesting because. I remember an English grad student explain this to me when I was like twenty and like horrified me with the realization that like comedy ends with heterosexual couple getting together and the specter of a baby and gay comedy, like classical Aristoteles comedy. Like in the, I mean, if you look at any Shakespeare comedy, it ends with couples getting together and marriages and maybe a baby in the spectrum of a baby. And the thing is because gay people can't give you the specter of baby. You don't know what permanence is at you. Like, why is this happy ending an ending, you know, ways the last step. How do we even do it right? And I think that for that reason and also just like sort of like our lack of willingness to see gay people as people who have like their own interests, gay men, particularly in rom coms end up coming an accessory. That's our woman wears a twenty eighth dress. If you will. It's like a periodic table of Katherine Heigl. The elephants are out there. We just see defined decency with which like just how recent is recently a word just recently into it was still like a twelve pounds overweight white woman or Judy Greer who was serving the role of person who stands next to our heroine is really shocking even like sassy. Woman of color is something we've only really gotten for, you know, since Bush gore. As far as also this, this broader thing of essentially which gay characters to identify with. It seems like there's also just been a process for a long time of just people trying to find someone to identify with who is not explicitly gamma taxed, but what else do you do? Right. Like kind of like areas identification is what gay people used to. And there are ways that like when we are shown stuff about gay people, we can like pull away kind of talk about it in the book. Like there is a discomfort that comes along with that, and it's not that it's easier. We're just more used to the work of having to watch Betty Davis or lady Gaga or whoever and identifying through a woman or a not explicitly gay. You know, gyms joing has a great bit about like sheriff of Nottingham do Jaffar and all of these Disney villains who are coated as gay to show that they are a trying to subvert the responsible heterosexuality of our heroes that being play an aspect of their. Various evil. They're feminists or in this case masculinity, I actually had a course in college. It was just like reading, pop culture kind. Of course, I did a whole thing where I said, did you know that Ratcliff the villain and polka haunt us is like a coded gay character. And the professor was like they pretty much all the villains out. Catch up. You know, that's the I don't remember from Pocahontas except for Pocahontas and grandmother. Willow right Ratcliffe is like he's it's sort of a pun on Radcliffe like that kind of colonial name, but he's this colonial British person who has an assistant who is it sort of Dom sub sort of thing. The power relationship, and he's a very flouncy and very, like guest on the FU accept less mask a, yeah, yeah. And and there's just it's I, I feel like I'm just listing stereotypes but, but it's a lot of the things that Hollywood has used to go that. Have you seen waking sleeping beauty? Is that what it's called now that is a documentary about Disney going from the mid eighties to the mid nineties, but it's basically sort of like things tanking with the black cauldron and then the way that Katzenberg and Alan Menken sort of like brought things back. And the interesting thing about. Aladdin little mermaid and beauty, and the beast is that you have Alan Menken writing these stories. And I think he he had his hands in the little mermaid and beauty and the beast way way more than anything else. But both of those things are stories about, like, you know, even from areas perspective, the little mermaid is very interesting, queer story from like having to give up where you're from to go sort of like experience a mature life. That doesn't make sense to the people where you're from, and. Oh, yeah. I never thought of that element of it. Well, yeah, yeah. Bell just being sort of like not fitting into the gender norms of of what was expected of women in this small provincial life, the town where she tells everyone is there to provincial in a very loud song. I testify like I really enjoy that ballads not my favorite Disney Princess because she is fundamentally boring. I am an aerial man through and through now I love her when I'm thinking of like, oh, what's fascinating theory that makes a piece of fiction work better. For me a lot of times it's just like fixing flaws in the basic plotting. You know, like there's one that they pulled out in a video called after hours that crack does where it's the overall idea that the Djeddai are very bad at their jobs in Star Wars. And so the prequels are the story of the jet. I realizing they have been kidnapping children in a bad way all of this time and they need to fix it. One of the things that was very hard for us about the prequels was that they were more mature than we give them credit for may may. Maybe not, but I think setting up these things that looked very shining impressive and saying, they don't work. You know that it is fundamentally about saying like the force was out of balance is interesting. When I first saw those movies, I thought that they were the most terrible, yes. But I recently we watched them and they are medium terrible. But with like cooling d. is in like they were at a transition point in our relationship to moral ambiguity in sci-fi fantasy like it was before game of thrones. The game of thrones is the thing that really got us to a point where we could like, except like by splitting up perspective, it means you can't have a clear sense of good Nevil. There aren't right side, bats. I people need to every situation you're having to understand people are just doing what's right for them and like something like dune, which also really floors that when the movie came out in eighty four, whatever people were like, what the fuck is that? Because we were just used to very low. Lord of the rings, Star Wars, good and evil. But that scene where anikin slices off Mace Windu arm after his full seduction by the emperor is like so grace. I wish it were more mature movie. You know, I wish it had been able to play with like bigger ideas when the emperor was sort of like getting into Anna cans head, but there's this way that lake. I think George Lucas always just thinks that he's making movies for six year olds. Yeah, it was hard to accept the prequels as interesting because the acting was directed in such a strange way. Everyone was very sort of buttoned-down and flat a lot of time. And so that leads me to think like, oh, well, if the acting is kind of flat, it's because the material is nothing. So that's what will. Yeah. I mean, it was them saying a lot of pointless things in front of green screens, and it is I feel sorry for Natalie Portman. 'cause like she's given us so much in so many situations. And I feel like that just gave her no opportunities in poor Hayden christianson. Oh man. It's a also a set of films where I feel like I'm just exploring them purely from a. I need to change this because the story frustrated me so much. Yeah, but I am also I'm a white, heterosexual male. And so I have a very easy time just finding people to identify within it and don't even worry about that with that kind of story. Miss other stuff. Interesting. Those things that are bad, but capturing you enough that you want to play around with what's going on there. That brings us very neatly to a television show called entourage over and and you talk about it and your book along with the comeback, as far as them both being very interesting views about lay. Yeah, like entourage is a great example of something that is a comedy on the in the Aristoteles in sense of in the end, things are better, you know, rather than like king Lear's daughter dies, and we're all said, yeah. Unlike there's something interesting about realizing the nihilism of playing with the cheat codes on because laic entourage. I mean, things are always better like, Aw, Vinnie chase, like, you know, having to check in with Vinnie chase it at forty, seven and realize what's gone wrong. But the thing is an entourage story would still be an then he got to do a bigger action movie. Yeah, and I don't know what he wants and I don't know if he knows what happiness is. Well, because things only go well in the show, if people haven't seen that, there will be some very, very brief tension maybe every year on, and then it will resolve itself often with just like a cell phone call. Yeah, he's boys were loyal to him and he was loyal to his boys. So they were all happy where, however goofy the comeback is like it's character is someone we know here in Los Angeles, and she somebody who's like struggling to get up to a bigger better place in Hollywood and failing to recognize the beautiful home, beautiful life that she has because she's always focused on something a little bit better. And I think that's the loveliest kind of comedy because it keeps showing you somebody fell down but into a safe well-padded space where everything's gonna be fine. And I think that that's so much what l. a.'s but end for people who don't know the comeback, just in case like it's starring Lisa Kudrow from from friends. Also, and that's sort of a fictionalized version of her. Yeah, making a comeback within a show where she is making a comeback in real life to kind of put at the same time is this magnificent criticism of the way that we make television comedy? Yeah, like eight is shitting so hard on the type of comedy that made Lisa Kudo and shooting so hard on the type of comedy that we have all into in sort of reality shows, housewife shows that kind of thing. And then the second season of it doing such a good job of shitting on the not funny, dark, half hours of the sort of like Atlanta or a master of none model right. Right? Maybe it's more artistic than funny right often, and I just love the show is just so unrepentant about criticizing the TV that we love. And I think that that's beautiful. When you write about entourage and your buck, you talk about how so many artists have tried to Documenta lay and they always find some sort of realistic or gritty element to it and then onto arrages just this like perfect myth. Yeah, everything works all the time and put the thing is, is that like no one would be obsessed with LA if it weren't for that idea and it's why have to respect entourage because it did sort of lake make this leg. Essentially elixir of what people think is great about Los Angeles. And I think that there's something a little bit boring about trying to do that. Yeah, but the said, homeless people on victory boulevard and like it's true, but they are drier in happier than this ad homeless people in Minneapolis, you know. You know. It is. Don't you think weird to live in a place that people had this weird division of when they were six or seven and the way fucks with their head. I remember when I told my niece who is now seventeen, but when she was like five or six, she was telling me that she wanted to win a contest she would get to ride in a whim. Oh, and she would get to go see suite life of Zack and Cody in Hollywood. And then I was like, Well, I I know people. I could just take you to taping of sweet lake of Zack and Cody, and it was like, I live in interest. You leaving Hollywood her. It was like a concept. It was Valhalla. It was a Lizzie m people love to romance the way that it is fucked up that these people are trying to live in a dream. That's yeah, they're China live in a dream. It's pretty cool. I'm like the better thing about Valerie trashes. She lives in the valley, the functional version of the jury. Right? Where there are certain freeways that can bring you to it from time to time. Exactly. But you're always gonna get parking. You know, you're never going to have to fight with some like twenty two year old with a guitar for a parking spot. It's interesting when people come here on in like a vacation away, like, what are you planning on? Are you gonna watch a sitcom, be taped? What are you going to do? Which is why I love Lisa Vandross pumps restaurants because Lisa Andrew pumps restaurants, and the reality shows around them, create the equivalent of a Disney character breakfast for mid western Homs like you go and you pay too much for a bad meal, but also Jack's. Maybe they're starting may be there and for people who don't know, Lisa Vander pumps like reality show lineage. I think she has her own show and she came from another show. Yes, she was a real housewives of Beverly Hills. Okay. She got the show Vander pump rules, which is about the drama of the people who are at her. Restaurant, sir. I believe you can just go to this restaurant in life. Yeah, exactly. It's just sitting there but, but it creates a point of sort of like penetration. One of the things that people have really hungered for like the world of fan fiction of had cannon, and all of that was like, how do you integrate yourself into this thing? That means so much to you but you are distanced from and I, there is something really great about the way that we have created more penetrable media for a while. There was a reality show where if you want it, you would then get to go beyond glee and I think that's why we got Alex Newell from, but like you know, the fact that we have created these contests, which victory means becoming a famous or heart of the firmament is so like classical, you know, like even like the basic one of Kelly, Clarkson won the first American idol and now judges the voice, right? She progressed up. Doing the thing she had done, kind of. They just did the same thing with project runway. Christians here Yano is going to take over for Tim Gunn and he's a designer from previous? Yes, from a premium season. Okay. Yeah, and it is an interesting process or like I deeply love the way that like the minute someone gets kicked off repulse drag race. They are a beloved member of the firmament of drag queens and ru honors them completely. Like before that point rule is telling them what they should be doing wrong and pushing them. And then after that, it's like no pork chop you are will always be honored amongst us. Chop is the first queens be thrown off. It was a dictator, but that's yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's almost it's almost mythological, right? It's almost like a myth where, oh, they got in this fight with Zeus and then they were thrown into the stars up there. Very interesting. And it's interesting watching the way that YouTube has integrated itself into that, whether is this democracy and it doesn't take fancy person coming in plucking you, it can just be millions of regular people deciding that your description of your sadness today is a good description of sadness. Like there's so much media. We have access to now that I feel like oftentimes we will watch something for awhile before we realize it's not quite for us or it's just not quite a thing. Well, it's interesting that there is so much media, but they're still so Hugh sort of like like spheres or worlds that like truly captivate imaginations and allow for sort of like common ground imaginations. Harry Potter. Everybody knows that world. Essentially, even if you haven't read the books, just the idea of creating something like Potter more that would like officially sort you so that it wasn't just a speculation of your own, but it was I was stunned to discover where Potter more sorted me. Would you like to speculate? Did you did you land Griffin door? Not lined Griffin door. Oh, okay. Three more guesses. Did did you Lance leather? I landed slither it. All right. We're upset about it. I was surprised because I had always assumed that would be a raven claw. But then my niece who was then like thirteen to fourteen was like, no, your results oriented like you are, you're about getting the job because I'm constantly lecturing her about like, do the thing that is required to have the right grade, like not cheat and stuff, but like understand the task that you are trying to to take care of just get that done purposeful. Yes. Are you a raven claw? I am or even cloud, but with strong hustle puff I took, I think like it was some off site type tasks like Potter Moore's and it showed you percentages. I was real close. Well, I mean until it's an official Potter more. My niece is a very proud hustle puff. I love that so much about her. That's nice. Yeah. As far as like inserting ourselves into stuff. I do. I want to talk about one entourage theory. I know. I know we're sort of past that show thought I ended up seeing a lot of entourage because it can. It contains some nudity that was very excited about it at the time. But then I realized I'd watched a lot of show that didn't make any sense to like what I wanted. Otherwise it was and ended up with a theory that entourage is basically an elaborate Truman show type prank on the four actual actors who are Vinnie on the crew, not Ari because he, he comes out of it. Great. Vakara is not the actor. So like not Asia ingrained gay, but Vinnie chase. But now it's a prank on Adrian Grenier. Okay. And the other actors in like we all pretended like this was a good show that deserved Emmys and stuff, and they know there's a lot of layers, but it's basically the first layer is we just had the actual show and then beneath that there is the show is teaching us how Hollywood works. Because like for me. It was the first time I learned what an agent is is. Yeah. And then there's a layer of the show so poorly done, it's it seems like it's kind of kidding as in general dramatically, you know. And so then beneath that, you realize that Mark Wahlberg just found guys to temporarily prop up as a prank. Yeah, that's really, really fun. It would be very dark, but yeah, like he picked on those guys and everybody else's succeeding in profiting. Can I tell you a similar theory of mind that was formed in the past two weeks? Oh, please? Yeah. Okay. What has Ashton Kutcher been doing over the course of the past five or six years? I think he, I think like apps and stuff. Right well, and also the ranch on Netflix with ranch on Netflix, which may or may not exist. The minute. That Bank, he went through half of a shredder. Okay. The auction somebody who used to be a writer on punked. It was a terrible year of my life. I was like, what? If they could use just Bank see? Like what? If what? If he crazy like a FOX and understanding that like just going to Silicon Valley and waiting for those boys to give him stock options and things was he'd made enough money off of that. What if he just decided to go and become the greatest guerrilla artist of all time? Because what banks is doing is just punked for with art history degrees. Right with like bake stencils. Yeah. Oh, I love that. Yes. Also, I have a friend who banks he painted something on the door of one of his dad's buildings in New Jersey, and now they just have that door and can sell it whenever they want to for like huge amounts of money. And like, why is this more valuable than bitcoin? You know? Like why is a stencil of a little girl with a heart balloon, any more valuable than bitcoin. We've just all collectively like agreed upon it. Yeah, there's a, there's a Kurt mine and get novel about a painter, but there's one part in that where he just butts and as the author and says that, like all fine, art is basically an agreement among rich people on you to get rich. Yeah. End, like tell the poor, they don't know how to communicate or if it's just a very mean theory on the part of the rich, but but I don't know maybe if it's banks. So where do you get this theory that entourage? I just couldn't figure out why else they made it other than to just make money. 'cause I just kept bumping on no somehow this is gonna turn dramatic or dark or something. I was basically going to blockbuster video and grabbing either DVD's from seasons of very interesting dramas because I wanted to watch a lot of that or entourage because maybe it had nudity and then and then I was so frustrated with like all these gripping things. And then this show that refused to be fundamentally. Yeah, and so it was like, okay, maybe it's just this big old prank that would make sense for a period of time. I lived with these guys who would like obsessively watch entourage and just thought it was the coolest thing ever laugh at. It was like it was funny, and they're the idea of creating a show that is just unchanging lifestyle porn exclusively so that you could place products that you have a business interest in does seem compelling to me to just be like. Convince them to buy shoes that you make, you know. Thinking of that Vander pump restaurant people can go to. I remember being relatively new to LA and going past dash like, gosh, and I knew that existed. And yet I didn't believe it was real somehow. Even though the show kind of sells the store and getting to have the little taste of magic like you might be in the world of those people whose lives seem so great. Bad really happened to you in dash, you know, like, aren't you protected by some of the same source forces that protect khloe. Can I tell you about one of the most jarring experiences of my Los Angeles life. Sounds great. Yeah. Okay. So I was watching an episode of the hills and it was taking place a cafe where there was an open Mike and I have been to before, and one of I think Spencer's sister went up and she ordered a boat that was like, I didn't know that Bopha. So the next time I was there, I went up and I was like, can I get a Bogo? And they were like, we don't have Boba and I was like, but the girl ordered it on the hills and they were like, yeah, like four people have done that this week. Oh, no, it was just this really interesting thing of like becoming aware of what the fictionalization of a reality show is like, I was sure that they encourage them to save particular things, but the notion that like an art guy went and got Boba somewhere else and brought it to that cafe so do that just so she could be ordering something that seemed cooler than the stuff that was offered there. Was like a truly magnificent moments where I became an Angelino. You know, like after that moment things changed what a particular lie. Yeah, what a particular lie. And I do think that this is a town that has like as much as any of the scifi we have discussed is built on particular lies like that idea. It's that dry. It's that just last night. What vampire facial was was explained to me, which is they draw your blood and then they remove the plasma from it, and then they reinject the plasma into your face and it's supposed to help. And like, does it do anything, yes or no. I don't know. It's just that we've decided to make this magical fiction the force or an Aloha Morris, spell or whatever. And we get to feel like we live in a world that has governed by different rules Ray because it's driven by enough industry that I guess there's some like fun can fall off the back of the truck. Kind of thing, but there's room for that. And also just like there is in the same way that lake religion has had practical value in just the way that it is like seen or merited by other people around you where like maybe your life isn't better because God is blessing you for being pious, but the people around you are like, oh, he's really got it together. Here I am a lady who gets vampire facials means something to other people, even if it's not doing anything, our world runs on stories and this time particularly runs on stories and the stores. Power. The euro home wifi system brings you a fast reliable connection in every room of the house because life is too short for bad wifi. The second generation Eero and Eero beacon allow you to build a wifi system that's more perfectly tailored to the home than ever before when you add Eero plus you'll get total network protection with the ability to block malicious and unwanted content across your entire network. Because by checking the sites you visit against the database of millions of known threats Eero plus prevents you from accidentally visiting militias sites without slowing anything down, Eero plus automatically tags sites that contain violent illegal or adult content so you can choose what your kids can and cannot visit right from the Eero app. Doesn't that make parents easy? Yes, it does. Good. I mainly want to tell you about EROs ability as a network because believe it or not. I spend a lot of time on the internet, like it's my job. Ha ha. No, it is. My job is very serious. Also. It's not serious. We're having fun, and it is fun to have. A good clear, easy WI fi connection, especially because I don't know about you, but you might live in a place with walls and walls really make traditional wifi difficult. If you're between one of those and the router and Eero lets you sort of network your entire space in a very easy, very intuitive way, and I've enjoyed doing it in my own and I'm dialing up things faster. Isn't that nice? Isn't that great. So get one hundred dollars off the Eero base unit and two beacons package and a year of Eero plus by visiting Eero dot com. Slash cracked and entering code cracked at checkout, Alex. How's that spelled? That's e e r o dot com. Slash cracked and code cracked at checkout. There's cracked article called four secret messages that turn bad movies into genius wins by j m McNab and he picks out at theory about the movie Jurassic world. Okay. It's not the latest Jurassic Park, but it's the new almost reboot, and the theory is basically like that movie is not about the text of it. It's about the process of people trying to keep blockbuster's going long after they happened long after the original magic. Is it like the movie even has Jake Johnson's character is in the control room of the of the park, and he's wearing a Jurassic Park shirt and saying, the first park was legit is a direct verbatim quote from it. And then it builds to dinosaurs from the original movie fighting dinosaur from the new movie. The read it as it's just a story about trying to like just endlessly, suck the life out of Jurassic Park as a Jurassic Park. Suck the life out movie Obama's. Very interesting. Yeah, very interesting. What are the other? What are the other way theories that make bad movies? Good. Do you know the movie barb wire? Yes. This one. It's a little bit off premise just because it's the actual things that are interesting at was a comic book movie based on a female hero long before we were getting. And it's also Casablanca. Oh, that's interesting. Like she's Humphrey Bogart Pamela Anderson and is going through the movie just trying to do everything he does. Well. Dealing with that Harare journey and is also every time the viewer kind of Lear's adder. She'd been kills like points a gun. That is interesting. Can I tell you my sort of like favorite? It's like a collective theory to shift perspective on movies. I already love that some people are, but some people are very dismissive of romantic comedies are all horror films that could happen to you like they're all deeply terrifying prospects that are narrowly averted under the same terms of horror film. So like sleepless in Seattle, what if you had a fiance, and then you heard a voice on the radio, and you were certain that you loved that person more than the person you were getting ready to settle down with. Like what? If you had a best friend in your life who was like there to support you in took care of you. And then when you were thirty two, you accidentally had sex with him and then you guys could not be friends. Again there that second. Which movie, oh, one hand. It's out Amazon. Okay. It was just years ago. I was working at a little cable network and I was writing around calm and all of my friends are writing zombie movies, and I was like two one of my other friends. It was like there's something wrong with me. Why? Why are they writing zombie movies? And I am not. He was like, 'cause the scariest thing that they can imagine is an arm coming through the wall. And the scariest thing that you can imagine is never really being understood. And that's what rom coms are. So frequently is watching somebody in the clutches of a boring life trying desperately to escape. That's amazing. Yeah. Especially with that sleepless in Seattle example, like I have a friend who says that in basically every rom com. The previous partner who's not good enough is just a normal partner. Yeah, there a realist person. And then the events of the movie are like a fantastical person comes into their. I mean romantic comedies of buying large Tatas to romanticize people with borderline personality disorder. Yeah. Do you remember the movie? The Baxter, I know of it. I haven't seen it was guys from the state and it was about the life of the boring boyfriend who got left, and I didn't really like it as much as I should have. Always wanted to write a movie about just basically sassy, ethnic friend from romantic comedies like her, figuring out how to make the story about her instead of it always being about the beautiful white woman who's next to her. Well, sorta like Rupert Everett and my best friend's wedding, yes gets to take over the movie, but fully looking at a in your book. It's beautiful chapter, but I how. How comfortable are you talking about the man who shot liberty Valance go for it because it's I have seen westerns and a lot of them often. And usually the only like Madda text I've ever been presented with is westerns or about democracy and Justice. Yeah, that's and it's, it's a story about guys figuring it out. We just boiled it down to two guys in hats. And so. Easier? Well, there is something really neat about the fact that I always hated westerns and then sort of realizing they are largely about jurisprudence, but they are so frequently about a romance is Asian of violence as the way of solving a judicial question. You know, it's about the absence of the rule of law in sort of masculinity having to govern that. And that's why women rarely show up in westerns and when they do their things to be protected or fought like their their property. Have you seen the cave in this is Miller. I know I haven't seen that McCabe and MRs Miller is so good. Robert Altman like Warren Beatty. Julie, Christie. Yes. Yeah. And so it is pushing the physical boundaries of what a western can be. It's in Washington, it's pushing the lake chronological downs of what western could be. It's like nineteen, and it's about them putting together a brothel to service the man who are in this leg logging town, and there's something so. Wonderful about the fact that it isn't pushing towards what's right. I think when it comes to western as story of democracy, like high noon is always that thing is sort of like the the pinnacle, the apex of our conversation about that for those of you who have not read my book when I was like at the beginning of the process of writing my book, I was trying to figure out how to write about my dad who had died like a year beforehand. And so I realized because I wanted to be a book and it was also about pop culture. I would watch his favorite movie, which is a thing I had never seen, and it's a western from nineteen sixty to call the man who shot liberty Valance. Yeah, it is very much something that is about constructions of law and governance. I watched this movie and was like, didn't have an idea of what I would talk about. This ended up being an astoundingly relevant exploration of the different ways that my dad and I saw the world. It's essentially like a young lawyer played by Jimmy Stewart and sort of. Like a guy from the west who understands how things get done played by John Wayne and the two of them sort of like with these competing world views. And in the end, basically Jimmy, Stewart tries to play the game of masculine violence, and it sort of gets propped up by by John Wayne because you also and you're right. So racially about this in your book, but also in general about your hometown, Yuba city and northern California. North of Sacramento? Yes, relatively rural and blue collar. And your dad was maybe more of a piece of that you felt like you were not fitting inasmuch, right? Yeah. And there is an interesting way that like being from a place in California that is not one of the places in California. That matters is a special kind of lawlessness that maybe other people don't understand because you're like when you're from a little town in Montana. Oh, man. Montana has to do is take care a little towns, you know? Right, right. Like in California, it's like no one is paying attention to lake today are trying to solve what's going on in southern California, maybe paying attention to San Francisco, but like nobody's getting to worrying about like Yuba city. But yeah, my my dad was just sort of like he just wanted to be a regular guy and fit in and be normal. And I was trying to sort of like I was very much internalizing the lessons of the big wider world in law and how it's supposed to be. And then watching that movie it like really hit home, but also annoyed me because it is this very nineteen sixty two will at the end of the day, you do have to pick up a gun kind of move. Right? Because I had seen it and I think high noon, probably the same like week and they to me as high noon's the most screened at the White House because presidents love it. Yeah, Justice. And that was the only reading I had been given on manage liberty Valance is. Lee, Marvin is awesome. It being evil and then John Wayne as the the frontier forceful element. And then Jimmy Stewart is the law, but learns in the end, you need forceful to raise. And that makes me mad because there's no space for women and Jews in a world like. Oh, no. Seeing a lake nineteenth century set urban western in some way would be interesting to see something that like takes the tools of western but applies them to something going on in Boston would be very interesting. Are you familiar with the movie state in Maine? I've I saw it a long time ago. Yeah, I think that that movie is the closest we come to that in that it is Hollywood people going into a little New Hampshire town to shoot some stuff. And then a bunch of stuff goes wrong and the movie ends with essentially a bag of money that was gotten from a product integration being handed from one Los Angeles Jew to a like New Hampshire, regular person. And that's all thing. The problem and I come from very nontraditional Jewish background, but I thought that it was a beautiful tribute to the power of Judaism of like a worldview and Lank. Let's get this done. Let's make sure everybody's happy. Let's just keep. Moving along, and it is sort of like a different kind of embracing the limitations of the law. You know, it's a different kind of power play. Like there's I mean, why? Why is shooting somebody more noble than handing them eight hundred thousand dollars. That's such a richer Rita that movie. Yeah, I like them a lot. It's yeah, it's like Judaism, main things and like how America works. You know, like we can all agree on this product placement, right, and do it. Yeah. Link. I think we as Americans can forget what a for sale country. We're in. Like just what a commercialized leg money, rules, everything kind of country that weren't like you've been to San Francisco. I have, yeah, briefly, it is cool to go to other cities that were founded around the same time like Sydney because you go to Sydney and Sydney was built by an empire to do a thing and San Francisco was built by shopkeepers to do a thing and Langley. Yeah, it means that the fortresses are less impressive, but also there's a way that like shopkeepers know what they need a town to do where like Sydney really feels like the British empire was like, okay, make sure the Dutch can't steal this, and that was all they were worried about, you know, right? If the Germans float through fire right there was, yeah. What else. I don't know where San Francisco is like, all right. We need to sell shovels. Yeah, I, I heard a, we'll we'll link. There's a podcast called ninety nine percent invisible, sort of all about design and that in history. But they have a whole episode about how San Francisco was built, partly on like filling in water to make more land. Yeah, they just need more room and they would often use ships that they had basically a ship would come from the east coast of the US a long way around to bring people to at. And then they would just plant the ship into the ground to make more land for the city. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it is very strange in as a Californian because like all of California was built in nineteen sixty four. Like essentially nothing happened here between the gold rush and the first McDonald's Hollywood kind of, but nothing else matters and you have this one city that is not just from the nineteenth century, but also had money rain on it for the entire nineteenth century. Is this like weird experience as a child's? Yeah, like Mark Twain had a hotel room and essentially a high rise. Meanwhile LA was just a dusty street. Yeah, it's crazy going back a bit to Yuba city in the bookie talking about how it's an amazing sort of place. Demographically and reasons is that there's a very large Punjabi population. Yes. And that leads you into some great stuff about bend it like Beckham and also football movies? Yes. My little hometown in northern California has had a very significant Punjabi Sikh population since the nineteen hundreds ninety. Eighteen teens. It was, I guess, started out as railroad workers who then realize that it was a really good agricultural place that reminded them of home, and then people started coming over before the Asian exclusion laws really limited the degree to which people from Asia could come to the United States. And there's a lot of things like people don't realize the first Indian American member of congress was this guy named Dolly sing in like Fresno in the nineteen fifties. Oh my God, really? Yeah. And they are also not the South Asian immigrants that you think of from like the nineteen eighties who were like highly educated doctors and engineers, and and that kind of thing like they are farmers like they are old school. I described them in the book as like the rednecks of South Asia, but it's like this weird and interesting dynamic because my hometown is always conceiving of itself as just sort of like an old school working class pretty white town because we don't have a large black population, but like a many of the. People who are defining. This is very white town are themselves Punjabi or Latino. Because it's California and that's what you've got. And it was really funny because growing up there was like a cable access channel that would just play the cheapest Bollywood movies that they could get because like there were a lot of grandma's who just wanted to watch something that was in pungent v. And so that was playing all of at the time. That's amazing. And it sort of was this lake rich and wonderful world that I didn't see reflected in media in any way except for and we never got the good Bollywood movies. I cannot emphasize that enough. It was like it was crap from nineteen sixty four. It did mean that when I did finally got movies that had like monsoon wedding or bend it like Beckham that had like real punch AVI weddings in them with the number of marigolds and the amount of dancing that 'cause like my my parents house is like three houses down from a gurdwaras so like which is like seek counsel. Oh com. Weddings and soccer games and field hockey games were like always audible from my house. Like if it was a Saturday or Sunday, you would just hear sometimes prayers. And sometimes just like the cheering of soccer and stuff. Like in my book I talk about I hate soccer as much as any American should. I think it makes for a better movie than American football, just because sports in movies really needs to be like just musical montages, beautiful musical montages and football stops too much like American football stops too much. If you go back and watch a league of their own, like most of the baseball in that movie is just like music playing over women throwing in hitting. Soccer is it is the beautiful game like you are able. It's almost like a musical having these moments of like physical activity and excitements that isn't having to add up to some sort of like narrative story where I feel like American football always has like a clear story for every down what all we must get seven yards all know. They have pushed us back, right it like sets up a story and then you fulfill that story or don't fulfill that story. And it's pretty boring. Would you like to know what football movie actually did surprise me with its goodness in the book? You mentioned Johnny. Be good. No. Okay. I don't. I didn't talk about it in the book, but a couple of years ago, the like those the weekend, that Robin Williams died. I was driving home and I drove past the new Beverly cinema, which in turn Tino owns now and they were showing to Robin William movies, Moscow on the Hudson and the best of times. And I did not think of either of those as being particularly great Robin Williams is. And so I was like, I will watch and they watch. They are both very good, Robin Williams movies must on the Hudson is from like nineteen Eighty-three during his first big film, boom, and there's a, I watches a small child, and it was not funny like Robin Williams movie. And so I didn't think it was good and then I watched it and it is a very bleak and wonderful comedy about how in America you at least get to make your own decisions. It is beautiful and bleak. Like the end of that movie is the smallest amount of happiness. You can give somebody and still call something a comedy, and it's really wonderful, and he's very good in it. Then the best of times is about a Tim and Kurt Russell and Robin Williams personally lost the big game when they were in high school. And so for their twenty year high school reunion, he is trying to get everybody back together to play the Taft verses Bakersfield game over again. It's a movie about masculinity and like wanting to lake have felt that feeling of of being on the right side of masculinity, which all football movies are like that. I do talk about it in the book about the way that like Rudy and Johnny, be good, are all about these romanticism nations of proper masculinity and some guy dreaming that he can like be masculine in the right way. But back to the best of times just the the choreography and it is good, and it manages to tell a good story, a football by starting out with clean football and changing it too dirty football. And as the game. Kind of falls apart. Yes. Well, it rains. It rains in that rain makes all the difference because suddenly they're sliding and movement that is without purpose and you feel the chaos a little bit more. And I think that that gets towards the dance that like soccer is just doing on its own. You know, soccer moves and flows and the muddiness of what happens in the best of times because also that gets at the chaotic fun of football, which is not always there. Football is to organize to have chaotic fun. And then once you have rain on a football field, then you are more towards being boys fucking around. Yeah, and that is nice. Bend it like Beckham is always in this flow of constant movement, and it's it's never able to be as agenda or simple as sort of football. American football is with radio in particular. I grew up around Chicago, mostly raised Catholic, yes. And Notre Dame is very, very important to people in that area because it's right near Indiana there, and it has tons of fans who never went there and it's a whole thing. And so I saw Rudy on a class bus trip to Springfield. The state capital was on those little TV's and and I fell asleep for parts of it, and I didn't hear parts of it, but I remember getting to the end of it and thinking, I must have missed like, what? What makes us happy this? This is a very, very difficult movie for me, but everybody else was like, that's one of the kind, you know, best stories ever and I love your reading of it because it's such a tragedy. People love it so much still worst movie with the worst message to votes the entirety of his life to something he is bad at never gets good at an all he wants is to just get to be participatory and looked upon as sort of like an equal by these guys who are his physical betters and he can add no point in time. Does he ever state that who he is and what he is good at? Might matter. Right know he never gains a skill does he gains like, statistically, he tackled somebody and so he played, he's he's nobility, is his capacity to be respected by the guys who are good at masculinity because he spent the entire movie abasing himself to chew to honor them, and it's gross and it because I feel like one of the reasons Iraq to it so much is because like growing up as like a gigantic gay guy, there was always this way of like, why aren't you trying harder to do this thing? Why don't you love this thing that you are supposed to love? Why not commit yourself to giving everything else that you're good at up and just trying to this thing? And like I hate that Rudy isn't even big on strong. Like there's there's nothing he doesn't grow. He's just survives. He just serve survives and is willing to put up with all of. Indignities and hope that at the end. I mean, it's like rock candy mountain in an animal farm is just sort of like. Eighties this sort of like masculine opium of the people. This lake vision of you are honored by the football players because you honored them so hard. Wow. And it never questions that there might be a world outside of that, and it never questions that there might be women who are human beings, why female characters in the movie. Barely. Okay. I don't remember. John Favreau has a girlfriend who he goes off with, and I think that there is a girlfriend who ends up liking Rudy, but if that movie is able to pass the Bechtel test, I would be shocked, you know? Yeah. I watched stand by me recently and realized just how few women talk in that movie and my friend, probably, yeah, my friend, Rebecca who shoo, who cares too much about film was just like it is a movie about masculinity and she was like, excusing it for for that reason. But there is a way that in telling coming of age movies and we only coming of age movies about masculinity and it's why I love the bend it like Beckham sort of leg blends together, sexuality and sort of like being able to own govern your own sexuality, like questions of race and integrating yourself into a colonial power. But also the fear of the ways that that colonial power will be able to accept you. Like people forget that. Like the fundamental thing holding just back is the fact that her dad was a really good cricket player who was never treated as equal. By the white guys and who is saying to her essentially, like these people will never see you is one of them don't try this like take the conservative road just you well on your exams and don't love this thing, and I love that it wraps the gender and the race, but also just so deeply loving soccer into the whole thing. And the of like the movie starts out with her. Imagining what if I were back and that question of whose is you feel capable of looking out of is such an interesting thing because we have been taught that white had our sexual men's is the ones that we are all capable of looking through. And it r- really eight starts out from that place and then makes us look through the eyes of a South Asian woman. It's almost like that movie is just trying to make up for five or six different under served things all at once. Culture like they're trying to pack it all into ninety minutes and they kind of do it, but it never feels strained because it's got a story to tell because it just starts out from a place of this Indian girl loves soccer. That brings things into it. There are gonna be questions about whether she gay for nightly, because you know when you place women into a sports context, that is a question that comes up. How does she fit into Britain like that's gonna come up? And I feel like when you try to pack too many things in for the sake of packing them in, you get movies that are bad or clunky. But when you just start out from question, people haven't thought about much before you're going to raise a number of issues. I must feel like there's a takeaway for anybody listening. He's trying to like, right or make a thing that if you like, you say with bend it like Beckham, they just start from a story they think is worth telling and it ends up covering all these different things. Naturally, I, I do think there is a way that Hollywood can be scared of. Protagonists who are two interesting. That always gets me when you're telling a story and somebody points to something and says, that's too interesting. And what they usually mean by that is it raises questions in too many directions. And to me that just seems like the starting point for a richer story. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And the book I'll see you talk about about as you were served discovering stand up as a medium altogether. You just fell in love with delirious that Adeniran special, which is counterintuitive, but it seems like it came from you embrace the good things about it because that was what you had. Well, I mean the the reason that you say it seems counterintuitive is because Eddie Murphy does start out with sort of like five minutes of some of the most vehemently homophobic material you've ever heard. But also like I didn't know I was gay when I was eight. You know, I was just like, this is good. Like, you know, I saw all of the good things and in a world where everything he was saying was pretty normal, not. Knocking on delirious. I'm knocking on nineteen Eighty-three. The thing is is like, I don't have good clear articulations of all of the ways that nineteen Eighty-three was coming at me and telling me that being gay was gross, but delirious is just so crystallized. But one of the reasons so crystallizes because I loved it so much book because it was so Representative of the kind of standup I loved and you know, and also inspired so many people, I love. It's like Chris rock and Margaret cho- aren't possible without eighty Murphy. You know, like there's a reason. I mean, I don't know of Chris rock ever world leather suit, and especially in like I bought you Margaret show like wearing a leather suits to explain like I m in the tradition of Richard Pryor and Eddie Murphy. Yeah. Yeah, you know, is really important. I think that that's such a beautiful like the work of showing ownership over something that maybe. Would have excluded you and saying, this is my story too. I mean, bend it like Beckham is doing that. It is saying this this sport that was invented at a British boy school belongs to me because you fucking came to my country and brought me. So this is my country too, and this is my sport to, you know, yeah, Landa. And then as people are at home, just watching things, what what's the easiest way to kind of get in the mindset of? I'm going to make this mind if it's not quite working for them. That's interesting because I think that that is the core of of game out culture is like finding stuff that's not for you and making it for you. Are you at all familiar with movies, Mildred Pierce, or mommy? Dearest basic plot? Yeah, Mildred. Pierce pierces the story of a long suffering mother who selflessly bakes pies to buy nice things for her daughter, and then her daughter fucks her husband, her boyfriend and mommy. Dearest has the story. Of a long suffering Joan Crawford who south Assane mix women's weepy films to buy nice things for her daughter who then writes a mean book about her. You've two stories that are nearly identical in structure. But when game at at a gay bar watch Mildred Pierce, they keep over identifying with the daughter because they're not supposed to. And when they watched mommy dearest over identify with the mom because they're not supposed to, I think the best way of showing ownership of something is looking at a villain and saying, what's their story? How like what are they doing? Like? How do we look at this story and say that there may be the smartest most right person here, you know, like the the best is like Hansel and gretel Chiltern eat that which is house. They eat that, which is how, why shouldn't she try to cook them? Right? And there's a housing crisis. Well, and also it's the, it's the kind of pro villain take. I would expect from a sliver. So. That's the episode for this week. My fakes to guy brand for being a fun of pop culture, information comedy, and just everything else what a pleasure. And now that you've enjoyed the show, why don't you enjoy the food notes where we have a wealth of things that guy and I referenced in this episode and in particular, we have his memoir again, it is called my life as a goddess, a memoir, thrown popular culture. It blew me away. If you read one chapter of it to start out, there's a really incredible part about his relationship with his father and the movie, the man who shot liberty Valance and, and I'm super grateful. He was willing to touch on it today because it is very, very emotionally significant for him and the essay on it has so much to it. And I hope you'll check it out and also just side tip. See the movie, the man who shot liberty Valance, it's directed by John Ford. It stars, John Wayne, and Jimmy Stewart and Lee Marvin. You know, from that roster might be the best western ever made. And I, I know I'm gonna get hate from the world's high. Noon fan boys, and Clint Eastwood stands, but I stand by it. I feel it. Here's something else I stand by the excellent song. Chicago falcon by the Budo spanned. It is our theme. Music are episode was engineered by Devon Bryant at edited by Chris Sousa. If you love this episode, that's great. If you hate it, let me know about it on social media. That's right. Social media, a place where I'm about to get flooded with messages about the searchers, probably and Shane and Butch Cassidy, and you know what do what you're gonna do. I'm gonna go see McCabe and MRs Miller. Like I said, I would want to talk to guy. Okay. How about that? Also? I do do other things on social media. Like, you know, keep talking about when I was on jeopardy. How about that? My Twitter account is at Alex Schmidt. He my Instagram is at Alex Schmitz degrom and among the wider internet at my website, Alex Schmidt dot com. It's got my show dates on my newsletter and more, and I'm happy to say we will be back next week with more crack podcasts Saha about that. Talk to them. This has been in your production executive produced by Scotsman, Chris, Bannon, and Colin Anderson for more information content, visit ear will dot com. Folks is national coming out month, but you stretch it out to the whole. What he's saying. So you should know about our podcast. I'm Dave Holmes. I'm mcconnachie. We host feel your will comedy party where we grill queer celebrities on what the loving and who they're loving. We have Indem I opening end hilarious conversations about everything from our guest pop culture obsessions to their personal experiences with dating and sex and love. You get to know a deeper more personal side. Your favorite people like John love from hotair America. Joe butcher. John Early John Early was here Trixie. Mattel, I mean, we've had cool. We're all guests on our show. I know Dan savage was a guest on our Shand frigging savage. Do you ever Brian? Wayland told us. I mean, I'm not even gonna get into the story right now. But listen, Brian tells the story, curly damning episodes are released every single Friday just in time for your gay weekend. Listening subscribed to homo feel you now on apple podcasts or Stitcher, or wherever you listen.

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21 - Serial Killer Trivia and Beer Tasting

Whores Talk Horror

1:04:17 hr | 1 year ago

21 - Serial Killer Trivia and Beer Tasting

"Welcome fours talk or we're not really horse. We just like word word play. Hello and welcome to Horace Talk Whore. I'm Sharon I'm Melinda and since We had so much fun recording our last Trivia episode About were Spencer basically. He quizzed us on Horror Movie Trivia. We decided to do it again. But this time we were GONNA get quizzed on serial killer and True Crime Trivia all. Yeah and we're going to have another beer tasting Because I was also a lot of fun and we like beer so why we do like bear and this time we decided not to just do pumpkin beer in fact. I don't think we have any PUMPKIN beers we're We each picked a couple beers and then spencer picked a beer. And we're just GONNA surprise each other and taste what we all brought so mindy let's Tell everyone what our first bureaus okay so our first beer. I'm going to be honest. I picked this strictly based on the can design. We're going to start cast. Many was the can look like well. I'll get to that. Ah Beers called Wayne bows and that's a rainbows with a w instead of an R and it has a little beer glass with me most coming out of it and it says hazy. Pale Ale brewed with CITRA CASCADE AND MOSAIC hops. and Best of all. It's made by a little beaver brewery out of Bloomington Illinois. So it's sort of low all little beaver dry and it has been raising a beer less on the back of it. It's Super Uber. Cute but it is a hoppy beer which I am Kinda more into like stoute's now than hoppy is but we're going to try it so here we go and again how many people use is mindy. Shut up and I actually can't find that. I don't remember where we founded Spencer. I think that was a different. Can I think whatever it doesn't matter is is beer so and it's pretty so let's just stick with that doesn't matter it's beer all right. So it's like five and a half Wayne Bo's baby wayne bows cheers all right. That's actually not as hobbies. I was expecting. It smells very hobby and I'm not a huge fan of happy. Beers is various citrusy it it is a citrus kind of cuts down on the bitterness of the hops drinkable but also it has a pretty can so I just WanNa keep mentioning that. Yeah it's a good blend of citrus and hoppy. It's not too happy 'cause I don't like hoppy either but it's not overly happy for those of you who don't like hops. It's it's fine fun. I would give this one a beavers. Would you give this. Yes since since we're done with Pumpkin Beers we cannot read this on a scale of one to five pumpkin heads anymore. We're GonNa rain this beaver heads. This gets three point. Seven five era heads. Wow that's very good little beaver brewery. Good job see look. He's holding up a little beer. Can we even both the picture. I think we took a picture already. We'll push instagram's y'all can see. Yeah and how many beaver leads you give this one. I would actually probably go for three point. Seven beaver heads point seven. Because I think it's very drinkable but I a new still prefer stoute's these days. I think I like it Spencer. I would probably do three beavers heads through your ads. Just take that for what you will. Yeah because hops are not my favorite thing but the citrus adds a little sweetness. It's fine and we do have some popcorn so we can cleanse our palate. Yeah we apologize if you hear a crunch and we're GONNA try to do that though because that's so annoying especially ear. Buds in ultra in as much. I Bet I was possible. All right so I'm just going to say it like last time. You know not experts on serial killers not experts on horror movies. We'd US enjoy these things. Don't judge us is what she's saying he's gone you of our favor. Things you know more more about serial killers than the average person like me but you also are not experts. There are a lot of people possibly some of you listeners. Who Know a lot about serial killers so wrong right? Yeah and sorry for those of you screaming at your ipod or phone or whatever. Whatever you're listening to this on saying you idiot you're walk manser old your Walkman all you tape it and you? You made a mix of our podcast. I think I heard the walkmans coming back. Actually I have three are at. Are you ready for some serial killer Trivia. Rupe oop all right. The first ones I think are more general serial killers things and You should you should get a bunch of these. Don't preempt it just come out is break. During what decade was the term serial killer coined. Jaren you can't see my screen can you. I cannot see your screen. Ah going to cheat I what decade. It was Mine Hon. Like not actually I can give you multiple choice for these. Oh okay that'll make it a little bit easier. I WANNA genesis one thousand nine hundred ninety but yes bring the multiple choice questions on mindy do have guessed before I give you the choices now. Just nineteen fifties nineteen sixty or nineteen seventies. Oh Yeah I'M GONNA go nine hundred seventy S. I was right that is correct. ooh Mind Hunter yet. Flex Robert Ressler former director of the FBI violent criminal apprehension program coined the term in the mid Seventies. All right next and the yes. These are multiple choice. How how are serial killers different from mass murderers choice? A serial killers are more skilled choice. B serial killers let time impasse between murders and see serial killers murder all their victims in a short amount of time. Now definitely be your correct as as opposed to mass murderers who kill four or more people in a short period of time in the same place serial killers murder three or more victims with cooling off periods in in between everyone knows that next question about how many serial killers have there been in the United States. In the past century. Choices are three hundred four hundred or five hundred that we know of true yeah Momentum is investment. It's an yeah I'm GonNa say I would go. Maybe be four hundred. What was the be was four hundred? Yeah that's that's what I was thinking I'm going to go with four hundred You both are correct. What up we're actually doing a little bit better at this than we did at Halloween? Horror Movie Trivia. Speak for yourself while I could go to the other link that has much harder you can go back and forth that is true I could the FBI estimates that's there had estimates there have been approximately four hundred serial killers responsible for anywhere from two thousand five hundred twenty six to three thousand six hundred eighty victims victims during the last century. And that's that we know of because how many crimes happen every day that we have no idea all right. I'm GonNa give you a harder one and from this other site. One Corona was born in Mexico in nineteen thirty four he migrated to Yuba City California years later leader for farmwork corona eventually rose to the position of labor contractor making him responsible for hiring interest to pick fruit for local growers hours despite being diagnosed with what in his younger days liver cancer because he made Corona Beer Sharon okay. I'M GONNA say on Schizophrenia. Goose sarunas correct number. Everyone number one. WHO's so do we know who that was? I don't know who that was. His name is one corona. And that's why this was a hard question because is I don't think either one of you ever heard of this is probably not responsible for making current affairs. That is a shot in the dark. All right do you want an easy questioner questioner hard question prizes. Don't ask us out. Just give us a fucking question. David Berkowitz was a serial killer who earned the nickname son. I Know Sam Oh no I shall read that again. I like I like your enthusiasm Sharon. Yeah Yeah maybe I'll just let you finish the questions from Alan David. Berkowitz was a serial killer who earned the nickname son of SAM. Thanks to a letter he wrote to a newspaper. Or what was he called before that and your choices. Are The dragon boy. This snowman killer forty four caliber caliber killer or the bloodstain killer the forty four caliber killer. Yeah I would agree. You are correct Sharon. Are you sure you can't see my screen and I'm just do all this shit and that's yeah what girl doesn't know her. Serial killer shut true next. The Zodiac killer is one of the most famous serial killers throughout his era of activity. He sent letters to newspapers with clues but but they stopped suddenly on July eighth. Nineteen Seventy Four Y. A he retired be he was killed. See he was caught or d. The answer is still a mystery D. D. but I think it's because Robert Donna Juniors character character like left the newspaper so he had no. There's no point in writing anymore. I'm referring to the movies odiaun which is really really good but I would still go with our answer. According to this it does say the answer is still Misra but it also I think possibly is he retired he may have just retired so but in general. It's a mystery. I wonder what his pension plan was like next question Ian Brady was the male partner of a pair of serial killers who terrorized the the Lancaster Lancashire area of England. I think that right. What is the name of Brady's female accomplice? This is not multiple choice choice. I'm sorry all through. The House has a waiting for that. I don't know is definitely easier with multiple choice. Yeah Mindy I assume you don't have an answer This is Myra Hindley obviously obviously player. Should we do another beer. All right so I worked up a bit of a thirst killing it at fucking trivia whatever so This next fear is a sour El. It's the maceration. A fruit is our with blackberry plumbing. Raspberry from new image brewing in our Colorado seven point five percent alcohol by volume or as many calls. Ab Us. I'll stop it and it's got a really cool can says an explosive work of art on it so yeah let's try this one. It's purple the hands purple. which is the color of the ails? Well it's not really a purple. It's more of a reddish pinkish. Look already yeah. Though that is heart that is really hard. I actually Kinda like it is. I love Sour. Els In this is pretty really fucking sour. I like it and I like how sour this is. It's con- delicious. A kind of tastes like rhubarb. It's almost like a new. Oh I know it contains blackberry and raspberry but it almost tastes like a really sour strawberry. Rhubarb Pie is tart baby with alcohol. Help with that will get you drunk with seven point five use alcohol. I'm going to say that in front of somebody who doesn't listen. Listen it got blah blah abuse like. What are you talking about so I would give this before Bieber? We stick stick with beavers. We've started with beavers. We're GONNA finish the beers little beaver brewery. Thank you for contributing to our show today. If you want to send us any free beaver beer or sponsor doors open we will not say no course court gmail.com if you want to send us some free beaver. The that I'd say I'd give this like three to three point five beavers Spencer yet. I'd probably do it three three and a half or so just because it's a little bit. I like Oh yeah three. And a half beavers. Yeah it's it's a bit sweeter you're than the last one Yeah Yeah it's good though. I think I'm ready for some more. Zero Killer Trivia. Let's do it ever go. Which of the following serial killers was born in Hoover Vermont John Wayne Gracie? Eileen wore notes. Jeffrey Dahmer or Ted Bundy. We bundy no. He was born in Washington. Knowing wasn't doesn't he was born in a halfway house because his mom was gave birth. Tim Illegitimately Yep. He was writing later moved to Washington. And when his Mahmoud. Oh Okay married I all. I know it's not the other no is Eileen from Michigan Dahmer. I think was actually born in Illinois before before he moved to Milwaukee and who is the other gase he was also from Illinois Go Illinois is just GonNa say Illinois rules. I know Bundy. Sure bundy correct. Correct Woohoo what good Jimmy at. Yeah I only know him from Washington. I didn't realize born Vermont the I I read the stranger beside me and then just recently like sauce. Some weird special that was on one of the random channels for Halloween. And like so. That's fresh in my mind but yeah I I just bought that book and I can't wait to start reading so good you won't be able to stop. I have to finish. I'll be no. I refinish albion dark when my rating now chased darkness with me and you had dark in the title but that is such. That's next a good book. It's it's actually a very quick read. I basically read it on my lunch breaks at at work and hit been like zipping threat so I'm excited to finish and start stranger up. Sign me quick plug right there for an rule and they give anyway precedes. bouncers thank you. How many consecutive life sentences did John Wayne? JC receive for his killing son of a bitch. I don't even know. The options are twenty five twenty one eighteen or thirteen. I think it's eighteen. I honestly don't know he killed a lot. I know yes I'm GONNA say Eighteen Mindy with that. The answer is twenty one ooh close. That's close for bonus points. Do you know when he was executed. Know that much about him like a lot of the details. If you even give me a year I'll give you points okay. So when he was executed. Ed I'm going to say nine. Eighteen ninety mindy thoughts. No because all all that's in my head or other questions which probably are cheating. So I'll I'll stick with Sharon's answer. He was executed on May tenth. Nineteen Ninety Four. I Shall Sean. I do know that where his house was is approximately twenty five thirty minutes from where we are now but they like bulldozed it down. It's not there anymore. Are you ready for more right from our. You're where was serial killer Jeffrey. Dahmer born go for it Milwaukee. Wisconsin Gary Indiana Hannah Cleveland Ohio or Boston Massachusetts. Oh It's actually you know what I misspoke earlier. It was Cleveland Ohio and then but I swear he also lived in Illinois for some part of his life. Maybe you can look that up while we're finishing our beer but I'M GONNA go Cleveland Ohio for this. I'M GONNA go with your mom's house because I don't know well assuming the people who wrote this question are correct. The answer Sir is Milwaukee Wisconsin. Wait what I thought he was. I don't know we might have to look that up and confirmed. I think you need to look that up now while we finish our beer's aright so I totally thought that Dahmer was from Illinois originally and and then moved to Milwaukee but Spencer. You've done a little research. And what's what's the story. Yeah he was born in Milwaukee then when he was about six years his old his family moved to Ohio where he spent a lot of time. Actually I think he even went to college in Ohio and then later he went back to Wisconsin. Which is I? I think. His killings were in both Ohio and Wisconsin what is his connection Illinois No. He traveled to Chicago to pick up some of his victims. I think and some of the gay bars in Chicago. I do remember hearing there was some Illinois connection. I'm pretty sure although to be fair Wisconsin. That's not far. Yeah oh no Milwaukee is about an hour and a half away from here so yeah but I do believe he was like I need fresh meat. He could come to Chicago. Okay Yeah I believe he. He did pick up some of his victims from Chicago and also I want to say as far he was in the military for a while two and then he actually lived in Germany for a while. Yeah this is on June thirtieth. I'm not sure what you're dahmer traveled to Chicago where he encountered a twenty twenty year old named Matt Turner at a bus station does talk about Chicago bars and stuff like that so he did definitely did. Yeah and I know. He was in the military in was in Germany for a while. They're thinking that he might have been murdered. Some people in Germany unsolved case our enemies episode about Jeffrey Dahmer. All serial killer. I loved him. Your serial killer crush me fantasizes. Shit just got weird. A girl can dream right back to Ted Ted Bundy. Oh Hey he pitches for the wrong team anyways. He's so Alan he's dead so point number of things a lot of issues as US anyway. Ted Bundy what were Ted Bundy's final words. This is multiple choice piece out bitches. You got it right I think I know this. Go ahead if you think you know it what what is now. I WanNa hear what you have volunteered. This she says something to the effect of leg. I I'm not guilty here. I didn't do it or something like that. All right now. What are what are the options? The options are a finally finally be. I'd like you to give my love to my family and friends although he probably didn't say it like that if that's what it was beeped it. It feels a little cold in here. Sorry and de well. That's odd. Wait a minute mini. I don't think any of those kind of now I I swear to God i read that. He protested his innocence. I know he I think he. He made the confession tapes apes then outwardly then he was like redacted all that did you notice in the compassion tips. When he talks about the woman he killed he whispers? And it's like did you get that. Did you get that. I think it was giving my loved. My family yeah I would go. I guess and you would be correct. Do although fuck y'all motherfucker is would be a good way to go out to that. That would be my closing line. And then as I'm fading away I go. MD and suck my Dick Shoutout to Fear of a black cat next question which of the following is not one of the ways. Experts classify serial killers. ooh A motive be social patterns or see method. I'm going to say be social patterns pattern. Yeah I'M GONNA go with that. You are both wrong. It is method. What so like? How literally how they would kill them like knife life? Oh Yeah I guess. They don't classify CL- because serial killers can kill a lot of different ways. They don't classify them as as serial killers on their message but they classify serial killers based on motive and social patterns. Yes that is true. We're learning a lot today. Ladies and gentleman you don't forget the Marino which serial killer is also known as the Green River. Hiller I know this one I wanna just blurt it out. I just read this Gary Ridgway when I lived on Ridge wakes you named after the Green River killer. Hey Hey I grew up on that street but can you please just for you know. Just do it. The people out there who are not as smart as me the listeners who are playing at home the options are a Gary Ridgway be Eileen were house see Charles Manson and and the identity of the Green River killer is unknown. Mindy do you have a guest. Oh it's Charles Manson. I'm kidding Anne Rule wrote a great book about this case. Why those of you WanNa read it? Look it up put list Putin is actually I think on Amazon unlimited waited for kindle. I think Amazon prime for kindle for free which serial killer was put to death via lethal injection on on October ninth. Two Thousand Two eleonore knows Holy Shit but I'll let you read the answer. I didn't even know that God. I hope she's wrong. Hey Hannibal Lecter non-real say if any hopkins is still alive and well be. Eileen were knows. See Jeffrey Dahmer and D. I forgot my letters for a second. D Ted Bundy now. I ah Ted. Bundy was way before that. So is dumber. Dahmer was beaten to death in prison. Yeah ever got lethal injection. So he was dead before that. But it doesn't Matt question is who got lethal injection good point and a was is not a real person so it's Eleonore Nas your correct. I know my shit. You're very good at kicking my hand. I did good at the horror movie trivia. I have to say but you're doing real good in this one. I maybe this is our. This is our niche. This is why we come together. You're right if we combine our superpowers we could be bad ass superpowers of true crime lab slash podcast as sh- sure horror movies all right. Let's go to a hard one all right. Let's that's what she said A response broke Spencer. He actually cracked up awesome. Where was Zodiac's first confirmed crime? This is not multiple choice choice. Sanford California somewhere. Are they looking for a specific location. Somewhere like a lover's lane something like that and and Callahan remember like Oakland. Yeah I'M GONNA say Oakland more specific than that but you're not going to know the answer. No I don't know many. Do you have a California terrible terrible gap all through the house. The answer is lake sermon road. And you're right you did. That's in Oakland. I've been there kidding. I don't know what you're going to San Fran next week. AAC maybe should go there. Yeah you can find lake. Herman road takes us there. Post the Monitor instagram's. Hey look where I am. I can lay down pretend to be dead. Have my coworkers take my picture. Do you want to know what happened there. Yeah it is Zodiac Killed Killed Teenagers Betty Lou Jensen and David Faraday on December twentieth. Nineteen sixty eight Faraday was shot once in the head and presumably died ride while trying to exit the car. While Betty Lou managed to run a few yards and was hit in the back by five bullets. I have to take a good ass movie. This man has been confused with Edmund Kemper because they both share another nickname. Okay all right all right hold on. Read that question one more time. I haven't finished it. But Oh this man has been confused with Edmund Kemper because they both share another nickname dot dot dot. I haven't finished. What are you gonNa say as you finish the class I say would have to say the nickname is the Co ed killer in Michigan? He's better known as the Epsilon Anti ripper who is this man at gained from Illinois Illinois. No was not fucking joking. Remember but but call back. I think we might have to insert a little outtake outtake at this point. I think you might be right. where a million? I actually got into a little bit of a heated discussion between again and add camber. That's why I said that that'll be funny. Yeah we're GONNA throw the outtake. We can play the whole outtake because it was a pretty long discussion Russian. Yeah maybe we can find a snippet to put in. Yeah well here we go take a listen. There's a serial killer named Ad Cover from Illinois women. No Oh he's not familiar he was in Plainfield Illinois. Just watch especially last week at Kemper is from. He's from plainfield. Look it up on Ed. Kemper was born in callaway live with his mother and investigation. Discovery says differently. He wasn't tamper that you ask someone Indians I'm looking. I'm sorry again I apology anyway. All right so what's the answer back. I gave me publicly. Let's do it well. Actually I think there was a book written about this killer in Michigan I do not know his actual name so I'm just going to say all through the house. Good answer good answer. At least you know that there is a book written about mm-hmm. I didn't know anything. Yeah I think it's called the Michigan murderers or something like that. I'll look it up. Mindy thought his name is John. Norman Collins Hey can you look up the Michigan murders yet and see. If that's a book are it's just did a little research and yes Sharon was correct. There is a book called the Michigan. Murders I by Edward Keys and it is about that guy who killed people in Michigan. And what's his name again. Oh God damn it. His name is John John. Norman Collins thank you so we are switching to a a well. This is actually a slider not a beer. Many this is your pick. What would you bring us? This is from North Shore CIDER company and Annoy as a gen botanical infused CIDER. And I mentioned that the name of it is hey jealousy just like the GIN blossoms awesome. Hey Jealousy shout out till you gin blossoms vans. I argue that. That was a very good album ahead on cassette tape when I was like fourteen eighteen but anyway maybe older younger. I'm not disclosing manage anyway as cute little can and it's a CIDER. I literally again picked it because of the Kellyanne Dan. 'cause I thought it was funny that it was a gin blossoms song as the title of the beer. So we're GONNA taste it and see if it holds up to the Song God. I hope it's way better than the saw. And do you know where the gin blossoms got their band name from Jen Jen. It's the gin blossoms are the things when you when when you see somebody who's alchoholic and their nose is all red and puffy. That's the capillaries have broken in their nose and they're called GIN blossoms or they used to be called GIN blossoms awesome. Are you serious from pop up video back in the day I loved pop up my load pop video to wow oh non self off conscious about my nose. Because we're drinking beer half our listeners are probably like what the fuck is pop up video right anyway. Hey jealousy the it's good. I'm not a big fan but I'm enjoying this kind of a drier cider. I feel like so. It's not like yeah I get it's drinkable. And it's got a cute cute little can and it is like actually infused with Jin or just Jin Botanical Ze L.. Oh here we got was at the bottom. Yeah this is our Funky cider date. Jin insider is a fantastic combination. Trust us we made. Hey Jealousy in the style of Gin we started with the the dry CIDER fermented from fresh press juice than we infuse it. juniper berries dried orange peel and herbs to provence. This bright herbal herbal CIDER has that botanical. Jen Flavor. You crave so there's not actually Jin in here. It's just the stuff that makes gin taste like they did. Grind a few members of the gym blossom. Awesome bad for the case. No I actually really like it. Yeah I do too. How many beavers do give for beavers? I'M GONNA go with four members of the gym blossoms. I don't know how many are in the Spencer the equivalent careers to gin blossoms. I don't know I think it's a four point. Two Gin blossoms members to everyone knows in the US we rate things by beavers everywhere else in the world. Use the GIN blossoms Gal Shit so I say this like three to four beavers. Let's try all right. We'll say three and a half I give it. I give it three beavers because I do like cider. But I don't I don't like dry things. And this is definitely on the drier side and I'm not a huge fan of gin so it's drinkable. But not not my favorite. It's very Jin hastings botanical flavors. I like it because it's Qassam. Insiders are too sweet for me. Like how sweet but dry a right serial killers who believe they will profit in some way from the murders orders are called a gain killers be robe ward murderers or see profiteers. Now there's a number of ways this answer could go. I'm going to say it was option again gain killers. I'm going to say gain killers Manila on what was it. What was option B. reward murderers? That sounds made up and see as clearly like our elected officials. So I'm going to go with a shared. She say to your correct Woo Woo. We're smart as Marty. We we are another simpsons reference. What was Theo? Durant's full name. Theo Oh huxtable durant. The hawks older at well played. My mind is blown. That was amazing are are there option. No I'm GonNa go with just the Adora just like in the original haunting in the house sticking with my answer. 'cause she says Theodora just chest Theodore both really good answers both wrong William Henry Theodore durant son of a bent. Can't that's like more than just one. Real name is a number of names how did Albert Desalvo also known as the Boston Strangler die died a stabbed to death in prison. Be Old age see strangulation or d suicide aside. I was going to go with strangulation. I actually don't know I'm I honestly don't know either. I'm just GONNA say strangulation because that would be very ironically would be an mindy. I'm Sharon on this one. I'm GonNa ride her tales. The answering did you see my goats tales your coat although you you have a goat I would love to play with it. We can go go cuddling up at farm sanctuary herd. Yes anyway. What's the answer? The answer is a stabbed to death in prison That makes sense because it's easy to stop someone and also people don't take kindly to like in prison. I guess they don't take kindly to people that other people. What what maybe? That's his children murdered. That child murderers in prison. They don't take kindly to people who are more like anybody. A lot of prison is just people who murder other people there's angry they'll take kindly period good point. Thank you Spencer. Whereas before sharing jokes on her popcorn now I know Minnie's Kryptonite is his actually true crime? Yeah but bring on the horror movie trivia. I didn't okay. We we did our. We'd need it all right okay. It was passable. Shut up sponsor. I love you bring on question. Was Dennis rader known As the BTK case Wrangler now he was known as btk killer. Wow I love how quick on dry admirable the emirate spencer well we're distressed to the overall bt K. Strangler. I've only been calling a B that you can't cahill area but read the rest last event Options the option the absence of just. Yes or no out then. I think I'M GONNA stop asking questions from this page because this one says the answer's Yes. He was known as the btk Strangler. Even though I think you're correct he was only known as the btk killer. Only heard that I'm not really trusting this page anymore But for bonus points what does bt case Dan for bind torture kill correct. Thank you discover. At least that's what the Tattoo on my assez. Hey well played the Black Dahlia laughing. He's still having it was. I'm trying to think of some clever comment but you can't wanted to let that lie something go right. The Black Dahlia is famous for being the first female serial serial killer true or false. She was killed big time. Yeah yeah false. I do have one thing to say eh if you are interested in the Black Dahlia case please please please even honestly even if you're not interested even if you know nothing thing about the Black Dahlia listen to the root of evil podcast is one of the is interesting bast most fascinating podcast asked. I've ever heard if you like true crime you will love it. H H Holmes. Was the name he went by. But what was his real name share and this is all you girl other options Spencer. nope I know this. I think you know in your brain somewhere but I don't know if you'll be able to access. Is it Henry Harrison. Honestly I don't even think it's a Age eight something isn't it. John know his first name does start with an h okay is it is not Henry though. Okay hairy here no Harrison No. What does Herman her our Herman we it's Herman something mudge it? Yeah Holy Shit. It's Herman Fuck. What is I only have a middle initial? I don't have the actual Eknath. She's right if it's is it. Herman J nope mudge it. It is but it's not Herman Fuck budget talk modular. What's fact magic? You said fun. I don't know I so I thought that was his name. Herman Faulk Majett. We're just going to say. Yeah that's right. Doc what is it w Herman W mudge okay. Oh that was impressive. No I knew you is not that impressive considering I've considering he's my favorite fucking serial killer and also considering. I've read devil in the White City and I know my listeners. It should three-part last. Pass on the left podcasts. The episodes about him yeah. I'm kind of feeling I should have known that. Well you came up with budget so yeah that was more than I knew. I you know more on that subject that I do so well done. Thanks accept your Kudos. Yes which of the following is not one of the reasons thought to contribute to why a person might become Tom a serial killer. Wait wait and you read that again yes I can. Which of the following is not one of the reasons thought to contribute to why a person some might become a serial killer so we're looking for the negative all right the wrong answer right which is the right way? Yes does that confusing. Yes my mind exploited. I just confused myself but go ahead Rene answers a brain injury be childhood abuse abuse or see peer pressure. Peer Pressure. Yeah I think I'd go that to correct. That was don's kind of really as various. Well let's go to a hard quest. Oh God damages closed the page. Oh that means popcorn break. Yep they are questions. What common clothing accessory did Dennis Nilsen used to dispose of many of his victims What clothing that he used to disposal them common clothing accessory? Oh you mean when you say expose. I didn't just dispose. Seal used to kill stock many of his victims nylons. We're on our third year here. Got US cousin break. Yeah drink what are you talking. I'm just going to go have nylons. Because that's a pretty yeah common. You know what let's on I'm GONNA go with. Yeah girl girl get it out all the wild. You know if you're GONNA go stockings. Yeah I'M GONNA go with a belt. Okay the answer is a tie from a bit but what about. I think it was close. But you still points no. It's not close okay. You don't wear a belt around. Is Your neck tie unless you're like fashion ISA that's a new trend for going to start now all right. Well well we convinced we. I'm not GonNa about that new trend and you know we have to get some wrong eventually. Sure and I honestly though these questions have been pretty fucking easy so br bring us some hard questions but make sure the hardwoods are multiple the problem. The hard ones are on the page. It doesn't have multiple choice. All right whatever all right. How many people was Constanzo? SP- suspected of killing August George Costanza. How many people just George Costanza kill? This is not multiple choice. Sound Donovan Okay. I don't know here's either so I'm just GonNa say eleven all right I'll say fifteen. The answer is thirty nine. I don't know this is but they killed a lot of people kill people. Edmund was a giant end of a man and towered over friends and victims alike. How tall was he? Are we talking about. I'd Kimber. Yeah I think he was six foot four four. Yeah sounds about right. I mean huge was going to be my answer but six four probably would fit the bill ready for the six nine shit seriously fuck. He was really big dude. He was a giant of a man. Wow but yet so gentle so while Sharon shoes popcorn I'm going to read the next question. All right just leftovers do stuffing with Buckler and get popcorn. Everybody Gosh like the bare. We typically hear about American serial killers but they exist elsewhere in the world to what was Andrei Chick Colty low famous Andrei Chikatilo. Can you know this one. Of course the options are a dissolving bodies in self uric acid be. I didn't hear the question question. What was he what was famous for Okay do need a again. Yeah dissolving bodies in sulfuric acid be be murdering elderly patients with non prescribed. Medications see murdering more than fifty women and children sometimes sometimes butchering them while they were still alive or D.. Smashing in the heads of over forty men and then inserting a vodka bottle into into the wound. Yeah answer say you say see. You are correct at that. Last one was a roth option. That would been horrible. Where did David Berkowitz grow up? Is there options. Okay Brooklyn Mindy say something different. Sorry I had to Burp off. Mike Minnie's burbs are like cute. Little Malice burps like it's so unsatisfying. I think I don't know much about his his his backstory. So I'll say what did you say. Brooklyn Churn is a Brooklyn. I'll say Staten Island. The answer's the Bronx Bronx. I was actually going to be like say the Bronx the Bronx shift mentally. I'm Pat Toomey telepathic. Fuck next time and Spencer. What what beer did you bring us? My choice is from second shift brewing in somewhere Saint Louis. It is called liquid liquid spiritual delight. This is an imperial stout with Where did it go eleven and a half? ABC News The it says liquid spiritual delight is a stout that is a chewy chocolate and a joy to behold. Just frigging drink. It I would. I agree with that. Yeah this is a you haven't even tasted really taste the ABC or people stop. No we will never stop making honey. I know it's a delicious stout. I love stout personally. I Love Imperial Stout in. This is strong it is wrong. It's good it's sweet. It's good I could probably only drink like one cannabis because it's very kind of the meal like you said Chewy. Yes yeah for sure not Chunky EH. But Oh no I actually have chunks in mind what you don't have chunks mindy and it doesn't say it on the can but I was looking it up and The the abbreviation for this beer is LSD because liquid spiritual delight is delicious. It is very good. It's very chocolate. It's delicious so how many beavers do you give it. Many I'd say for Kirby Verse Four Point Five Errors. Do I think I would go for versus. What all right all right? We are getting near the end. People homestretch maters whistle. Have One more beer. Though right we do have one more mayor all right like I said homestretch. Mother give us give us some harder. Oh yeah most of these are going to be harder. I think at the end here. Where did Bella Kiss live before committing his first crime? I don't know who that is. Ballot Kiss I know the name but I don't know who that that is. Where did Bella Kiss live before committing his first crime? I'M GONNA say this is not in the. US correct. I'M GONNA say. Are we looking for a city or a country country Germany Mindy England. The answer is hungry. So we're well. Yeah but Germany's closer to hungry than so Sharon wins. That's all important. Sharon's like I'm GonNa show you walk territory. Okay I have no idea if you have any concept of this so I'm just GonNa read it on June twenty eighth nineteen eighty-four so you remember this probably. Yeah very clearly. Hey let's not talk about that but Yeah all right on June twenty eighth nineteen eighty-four at the Glatzel Park apartment house in Los Angeles. A seventy nine year old woman was murdered. What was the the name of the woman who was murdered all shit? ooh phone a friend. I can tell you the killer was the night stalker. Does that help okay. Well so is Richard marriages. He killed a bunch of people. I do not know the names of any of his victims. Don't do not either. I feel bad about that but no I don't I'm guessing Was this kind of a famous victim. have no idea yeah. I don't know what's let's let's answer. The answer is Jenny Vinko. I N C O W recipes any yes. Albert fish was is finally arrested for the murder of a young girl. You turn to look at my screen. Now she goes away from the MIC. Okay through their beer up garth. Yes my chewy beer at a look of recognition of it yes Ansett Albert Fish yes. Albert fish was finally arrested for the murder of a young girl roll. What was her name? I think it was Schutte. Something You d like to impeach. Well jody now like twin peaks but I mean I will. Yep saying going to talk about Judy. Let's back. We're not gonNA talk about Judy. Judy Terry I love Albert. But I don't know the answer. I even fish. I really want to say her name is Judy. I could be totally on stick with it just as a classic name. Her name was grace Budd. Oh fuck yeah sound familiar. Not at out. Sharon probably not me Charles. Manson and the family were famous for murdering Sharon Tate. That's who you are named after right yes I was. Yeah I honestly I have no idea. All I know is is open on. All I know is My Dad picked my name after he shot down all my mom's choices of per silla after Priscilla Presley sleep because he was a big Alvis Fan and still is she still has a big Elvis Presley fan and I think my mom's other choices were one of the a little women so amy Jo Mag or you could have been any one of them and my dad's like nope Sharon who knows maybe did name after Sharon Tate. Maybe we'll go with that All right so they were famous for murdering Sharon Tate. What was the address of the home where we're the family murdered tate and wrote on the walls in blood? Some off-hand it's multiple choice. I forgot to Purpose choice. A one zero zero five zero ceelo drive. Be One five zero Cielo drive. See One zero zero five Cielo drive or D one. Five Zero Five C.. Yellow drive Dr Realized. They said those numbers very weirdly but it was the easiest way up the address that takes place on Cielo drive. I was GONNA say the same. The with ones and zeroes and five shit. I don't know the I don't remember and you saw once only way too. I know it was on. Yeah I'M GONNA go with the one on Cielo drive I'm GonNa go at C.. Mini pick a different letter. You're both wrong. It was a ever bobby all be wrong. One zero zero five zero. That seemed oddly. Not Real sound into me but okay yeah yeah. There are places that have five digit digit addresses. The I know what was Eddie gains. Mother's name I don't know why they didn't say Ed Geene Eddie gains she he call them. Maybe you're probably right. Addy come massage my any creepy. Give Mamiya Path paty. You know that having. I'm sure it did. What's her name is not multiple-choice Shit? I don't know I I got I. Just dead is learning kidding. I jazz listening to something about again. I want to sue from Illinois talk you. He's not from from plainfield. Wisconsin bad joke. Might I add. I'm GONNA say Bernice Nin her name is Augusta. Oh Yes yes yes yes well you said Bernice which B. B. is right after a so. You're close I mean it's like you almost got it and I mean really I I mean just give it to me. You know. That's a win in my book. Who are the hillside stranglers? ooh search in two guys. They have Italian sounding names. Fuck is something Di Angelo. Is that one of them. Shit Shit okay. It's two guys. Yes and they do have a talion sounding names way at least at least one of them. Fuck I remember watching amid for TV movie on them. When I was little man those the best and I know that Dennis Farina played one of the actor Dennis Farina so does Farina obviously is one of the killers? How is it that I know the actor who played one of the hillsides sized stranglers? But I don't know the actual hillside strangler is. The human brain is an odd thing all through the house. Yeah there enough. So one of them is named named Kenneth Bianchi or Bianchi and the other one is ams low when you said Deanza Lower Angelo Bono. Oh Yeah Yeah yeah now that I hear it. I'm like Oh sure I've seen about that but yeah I guess it next question. This British Dr became known as Britain's most prolific serial killer. What is his name not multiple choice? Would it help you if I gave gave you one year. Ish a British doctor doctor who know fuck you. I personally take offense to that. Doctor would ward off I stick by my answer. What up Dr Ten? He's my man. Do you have a guest down to put as not doctor who his name is. Harold Shipman wait I bet name why do I know that name. Yeah why do I know that name. Britain's most prolific serial killer. But like what does it say anything about what he did. I can read you this Herald. Frederick Fred Shipman. Born on January fourteenth nineteen forty. Six was an English doctor who became the most prolific serial killer in British history. Shipman committed two hundred and thirty. We six known murders but many feel that. The dastardly doctor killed many more on January. Thirty first. Two thousand. A jury of shipments pierce found the doctor guilty of fifteen murders. He was sentenced to life imprisonment with a recommendation that he not be released. Two years later the home secretary confirmed that the the life tariff Shipman committed suicide in prison in two thousand four. I say wow that's interesting. All right I stand corrected acted wasn't doctor who you happy Mindy. Yes thank God. He's doctor WHO's alien first of all second of all healers full. So it's not a spoiler. Well I've never seen it fifty fucking watch. No because you'll never guess all of the intricacies sees and it's been on for fifty years so calm down calm down. The candyman began his reign of terror in an area of Houston called the heights. What in what Houston suburb did his rain? Finally come to an end. Wait a minute I thought that was legit a Chicago roll out the Candy Man. The movie mine was a movie but I thought it was a legit Chicago urban legend. No there is clearly. I've I have not done a lot of research into this clearly. You have no idea you need to research this guy. The they want the name of the actual suburb. They want the name of the Houston suburb. where his reign came to an end? Fuck I don't know I don't know Texas suburbs. I don't either. I do know about the story though. And it's fucking disgusting saying I don't know Texas suburbs so I really. We're not qualified to answer this question. It's also the name of a town in California called Pasadena. Wait you tell us the answer. Yeah I did because you don't know the answer okay. So for our final. Oh Beer we have Sharon. We have convenient distraction by Oso brewing company. which is from plover lower Wisconsin and it is an imperial porter with Vanilla and coffee? Beans added nine point eight percent alcohol by volume. It says porter brewed with Madagascar Bourbon. Vanilla beans and Ruby roasters coffee. Whoa all right? Let's good trigger with like a meal. I don't think this is heavy. Is the last one we had the coffee taste is definitely there. Is it true we not mine. Not As to ease last the last one. I'm it's really good. Yeah it's got a nice coffee flavor and sweetness with vanilla it's in Caboche. Smooth is not as heavy as the last one I have to say. It's a little bit later. Even though this is also well actually no. This is an imperial porter. The other was one too much. The other one was an imperial stout right so this is delicious though I think it is really ill like it but I feel like I couldn't really like drink this with dinner. You know. This is a meal unto itself or a dessert or something. This is as a breakfast border. Yeah that too. I give this one. Four point five beavers. I would agree with the beavers you gave. I gotTA give it three point two five beavers. Because I don't care for coffee so much as I do like a good coffee stout and this is a good good coffee stout I think accepted supporter. Shit you know what I mean. I'm glad that the one that I picked rated the highest Miami's good for you know that was the sweetest so it was. This is delicious though good picture and all right let's do a few more trivia questions Russians. Bring it home and then bring it home by fight to the death. No okay no fighting to the death I said. Let's bring home like three times. I think. Fight to the death is just implied. I sorry couldn't tell by the look in your eyes that you wanted to fight to the data you mean the angry look of of challenge in my eyes shadow. Mindy said enough beer. I'm just anyway edible end very competitive all had enough beer at this point anyway. Let's turn the sponsor for more questions turned to me. Focus on me all right. Charles Charles. Manson is one of the most infamous inmates of what prison a Corcoran state prison in Corcoran. California cornea be Morgan. County Correctional Complex in Warburg Tennessee. C Dixon Correctional Institute in Jackson Louisiana Or D. Eastern Correction Institute in Westover Maryland. I would agree Carin. You are correct okay. This is about the acid. VAT murders in Nineteen ninety-seven. A man disappeared the man. Dan was a transvestite. Who went by the name of Vanessa? What was the name of this man? Oh my God I have no idea. The actual man's his name. Yes John Smith of ood. I'm going to go with art. Van Delay Very nine. The my mother will appreciate that she listens by the way you are correct. His name was Berry Lane Gene Mattie to respect to bury lane. What was the name of Dennis Nilsson's dog? Oh it was Bah fido spider fido spider. We ever get a dog. We have to spider smile after Dennis. Nelson's obviously sleep actually. This dog name bleep bleep hurry L.. Despite his lack of emotional attachment to human beings nilsson the loved animals following his arrest. He showed much concern for the welfare of his mixed breed. Dog bleep off. Kind of a cute name bleep bleep. I think that's a good one to end on. I would agree okay a now that we're good and drunk. Thank you for listening to talk castle. It's not feel free to make one of us for all the Shit. We missed the we should've known. But Sharon's way better at serial killers we've determined than were movies. I'm I think I'm still the reigning Champs for her horror movie trivia. Yeah you did. You did kick my ass at horror movie. You did really good on Syria coach Korea and we only had our next pet would be named bleep. So that's cool. Oh I thought we were going to name him spider spider. I'm going for bleep. That can be. It's Middle Name Spider bleep. Spite overly commuter spider bleep right Silliness aside pop. Were just came out of your hair. It's been that kind of day a piece of paper and just fell out out of my hair. Well so hope you guys are having a good because clearly we are sharing. We've anything else. Dad really hole right is when you combine Lots of alcohol. I'm just is going to jump in and say check the episode description for contact Info if you want to send a story scary stories and escape story any information on serial killers any fun scary creepy stories. Please do that. We would love to hear from you give Spencer just hijacked our podcast which is totally fine because I think he thinks we drink too much which I would agree with everything everybody just sad right now. Thank you for listening putting up with us and we'll be back soon and as always thanks for gangrene with US good good.

Brooklyn Mindy Sharon Tate Spencer Illinois United States murder Ted Ted Bundy Jeffrey Dahmer California Edmund Kemper Chicago Charles Manson Eileen Wisconsin Michigan instagram Washington FBI David Berkowitz
Connecting Grassroots Gun Rights Activists; AR15 pistol in 9mm: Gun Talk Radio | 2.9.20 B

Gun Talk

43:57 min | 9 months ago

Connecting Grassroots Gun Rights Activists; AR15 pistol in 9mm: Gun Talk Radio | 2.9.20 B

"Crimson trace now offers a line of tactical oriented products including open and close reflex sights battle sites and a robust line of rifles scopes purpose built with of maximum features and versatility find out more at Crimson trace dot com. Dry Lock stock and barrel. We'll talk about anything related to gone on. So it's Tom Gresham. Call now eight six six. Talk Gun we're back with media. Tom Gresham you want to join us. That part's easy. Just call us at eight six six. Talk Gun or Tom. Talk Gun obviously You can follow me over at gun. Talk Doc Gun Talk Dot Com. Probably the best way. Do you want to stay informed throughout the week because things are breaking stories are happening all the time I kind of worked as as an aggregate or site. If you see the drudge report of guns but I put it all up on twitter so if you follow me on twitter. I'm at gun talk. That's how it works on. Twitter are Ad Guntalk. You'd have anything else on twitter. Just do that and I will put stories up throughout the day all week long. Why would you do that well because you want to be informed because you wanna be effective because you want to participate in the twenty in twenty twenty movement that I I started which is a masking gun owners to devote twenty minutes a day throughout the year? Two Thousand Twenty as we head toward the twenty twenty elections twenty minutes a day part part of that is going to be spent just going online seeing. What's going on look at the news? Hey My twitter feed there you go. Lots of articles things are happening. And then MM cynical view. Emails make a phone call. Basically just getting involved and finding out where things are happening and committing to show up. You have have to show up if we're going to be counted because the world belongs to those who show up as part of this whole thing. It's okay how are we going to talk to each other. How are we going to communicate? How are you going to stay informed? Here's a guy who's got an idea. Rob Sway joins US right now for Two eight three. Hey Rob Horia. Hey Tom I'm doing great. Thanks okay so first of all tell people it is the number two and then the letter a. and then the letter C. and then the number three to a C.. Three what's that all about all right. So the C.. Three stands for command control and Communication. It's a military military acronym basically has the elements of what what a successful mission takes and of course for second amendment or the idea. There is for us as a community as a second amendment. Can you eat community to all get get together and coordinate with each other so that our activities have the maximum impact. Because if you don't if we do it individually that's not bad but if we coordinate and coalesce and meet at one place and show up at the right place right time now. We're starting to be it. That's it so I was really inspired by the Sanctuary Movement to happen in Virginia and it was amazing that independently independently thousands of citizens in each county which show up at the Board of supervisors meetings and they would urge them to pass these resolutions supporting the Second Amendment and I saw that there was no leadership happening There was some loose organization happening on facebook. A couple of gun rights organizations. We're trying to get a message out. But it was really individual stepping up and taking action themselves and coordinating themselves and I thought I need help figuring out who my board of supervisors are where meetings are happening. Who else is going and what I need to do? Wouldn't it be great if there was a website or APP that can help others in my situation do the same thing look at current events. What do I need to do? Who Do I need to call up? What politicians do I need the pressure and urge and get some coordination to the grassroots movement event because the left is incredibly good at Coordinating Grab Movement and Conservatives have been traditionally very poorly organized very bad at it using technology and now we're at the point where I think that changes the technology makes it possible before you really didn't have a way to coordinate? Donate I mean what are we gonNa do newsletters in the mail. I mean forget that I mean. Now it's happening. It's not even happening day by day. It's happening hour by hour in. It's it's different in each state has a different from group. There's different call to action. How you going to keep talking about this all the time? How are you going to know Quinn? There's a rally. How are you going to know who when the committee at the legislature is going to start hearing the bills? Step one and this whole thing my my twenty twenty twenty and everything out step one is to be informed because if you're not informed nothing else can happen Yeah that's exactly. What is this thing you've created right? So we're going to say is what's unique about each state and county is that they've all got their own challenges and they've all got their own groups who are trying to coordinate and organize and there's really no national coordination and there's no local coordination happening that are talking to each other so what to a C.. Three DOT COM is is. It's the website and an APP where you log in and you select your state then once you register you select your county and in your county though either be a local organizer is or or there'll be an opportunity for someone to step up and become a local organizer that local organizer is in charge of communicating. What's happening in your area to the members of that community so there's event that's happening if there's a vote that's taking place? There's a to a politician that needs support four or is considering running that news gets disseminated through that local organizer and then the members of that community have the option of attending events or participating in action items like calling their senator delegate and they can coordinate and message other through the APP so it's a way of tying everything together together at the local level with the idea that there will be local groups forming in person groups in person meetings actually just went to over the weekend and it was was about twenty thirty people who joined we had a couple of speakers. We became aware of the current status in Virginia. What was happening with the bills right and we signed up to take more action so I'd like to see more of so two? Three is not an organization. It's actually a structure where organizations can communicate. Our people can to communicate. How am I doing? That's exactly it is a platform a technology platform to help organizations either form or existing organizations to bring members on and build in the grassroots infrastructure that we need because I mean one of the things we've talked about it. You're not talking about this before you got on here. Is that we in the gun community. We use facebook a lot but we also know we have the sword of Damocles Holding Eh above us because at any given time facebook can just say no. You guys can't talk to each other about guns but more than that and here's the sneaky. That a lot lot of people don't know on facebook so you got a group of ten thousand people on facebook when you post something on facebook and you know this I just want to let me make sure people people understand if you your group post something on facebook and you've got ten thousand people following you. That doesn't mean that all ten thousand see it you may only have five hundred hundred of MC it right right right yeah. There's three things that are happening with facebook. I you've got hundreds of small groups for each county county in a state and they're each organizing in their own way and there's no communication between that so that's the first problem. FACEBOOK is great for awareness. That's very poor for coordination because they can't get their message out. The second thing as you mentioned is conservatives tend to be censored and those. There's good can be shut down. You have one hundred thousand. People gone overnight. We've seen it where groups facebook pates simply disappeared overnight because some twenty four year old facebook looked at it. No I don't think we ought to have that click. It's yeah of course facebook and Google Youtube they're all very against Conservatives and individual freedom and they will censorship they'll change their community guidelines to make sure you violate it if large powerful and then you also have an issue where a lot of these conversations that we're talking about talking about. What do we do if all of a sudden they make our guns illegal? How do we respond? What if the sheriff's don't enforce the law these types of conversations make government very nervous especially? We're talking talking about large gatherings of people like we had enrichment. But all of these conversations are monitored they're getting tracked It becomes a very curious situation for for people who are looking for. What happens if we actually need to use their firearms? If we need to enforce the Second Amendment what happens there so these type of conversations. It's not I'm not the type of conversation you WANNA be having on facebook so it's nice to have a platform that's private and secure and designed to have these type of private conversations so the two. ACC three those numbers. It's to a C.. Three DOT COM individuals. Join groups join. How how do people get involved? It's it's a platform to support grassroots movement at an individual level you can simply register find your county and start talking with folks in your county see who the local coordinator is see what activities and events are happening and join up to an existing group but also if you're a gun on rights organization either local or national. You can set up your own group on their green your members on and have a way to communicate push out notifications and push out alerts and updates create your own events share your own news. It functions a bit like a social network in that respect so you become the coordinator if you have an existing organization fascinating and it's up and running now right. It is all right there it is and it is literally to you a C. Three like Second Amendment and then C. Three for command was a command control and coordinator in control and communicate. Yes communicate there. Are you go all right. Hey I really appreciate rob thank you for letting us know about it and let us be one of the first people to help you get the word out about two three. Okay Pickett all right you take care there. It is all right so question for you. Twenty and twenty twenty. Are you in on that. Also question for you dining thing I just ordered. Yeah I know stupid I just order scope. Let's see what else I need some low rings and gene. Yeah I know I go on and buy stuff just like everybody else In the sticks in my local store and when we come back I wanna tell you a kind of a weird stories. I went to a gun in store and nobody was there when we come back for. Twenty Five Years Crimson Trace has led the industry in laser and light technology and in customer service now Crimson traces proud to offer electronic sites and rifles scopes for tactical target and hunting applications with the same crimson trace offer or a free batteries for life on all products. The new rifle scope line is also backed by an unconditional lifetime. Already from the brand that you have trusted for over two decades agades find out more at Crimson. TRACE DOT com. Perhaps more than any other landscape wetlands embody the light giving abundant index. That nature has to offer and perhaps more than any other organization in ducks unlimited is working to ensure that our confidence wetlands not only survived. Bein Dr Generations. Well beyond this one time is now to band together but time and is now to rescue our wetlands thirty six years the US sportsmen's Alliance. 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If there's a gun you talk about a question you WanNa ask rumor your start. We're the right place for that. I'm Tom Gresham. Let's go talk to Davies three driving through North Carolina. Hey Dave you're on gun talk what's it's up. Hey just wanted to get you update from the road and this update about the Saint Lawrence County New York Mark Audi and towns Second Amendment Sanctuary group that met with the county board of legislators on Monday of this past week in New York work. Okay correct right. On the Canadian border way far away distance mindset from the town. I guess so what happened belly We actively just about I think they were A newspaper reported seventy. I counted a few more than that but there were over a dozen speakers which was enough to make the chairman decided that they needed to limit speakers from the usual five minutes to three minutes which got my hackles up because I I've minutes prepared but through the kindness of other speakers. Here's who donated the remaining time to me. I was able to get my message out. We basically left it boarded. Legislators know that we'd be law abiding fighting gun. Owners of Saline County would love it if the county board of legislators with hop on the Sanctuary Bandwagon. So we can tell the emperor Andrew Cuomo that all his lackeys and minions where they go and basic upshot shot was they said well. We'll think about it so we're GONNA have to go back there again a few times. I believe to get exactly certain. They're they're they're saying we hope you go away. We don't hear from you again. I they might be thinking that but I talked to some afterwards. I say oh whole body messes over when because a lot of the two eight supporters left intermission when they were told they they did a lot of stick around for the rest of the Nasty Asti business of a commission meeting. You know right right so I say I talked to some of the other folks who were there and it's going to be a process. It's not going to happen overnight. We're going to have to do like you say we're going to have to get out there and give our twenty minutes every day for this year and make it happen. It's going to be grassroots. It's GONNA be real. It's not going to be Michael Bloomberg money. It's going to be our own blood sweat and tears. That would make this happen avenue. Describe for me if you would the sense of the place when you guys are there and there are some seventy a-plus of you. There and people have taken time out of their lives. They have driven there. They have shown up. They're putting up with the bureaucracy. This meeting reading. What's the feeling of the two people who were there? were confident but they were subdued. Because this is the first time we really have gotten together. Our County is full of a rural county bought a farmers of people who work outdoors artwork and people and a lot of hunters and shooters of you know various times and they all came together so you had a really quite quite a mix of people in the in the crowd and they. Were you know pacing the legislators who of course all wear suits and ties when it comes to the meetings things and I thought we had their attention although one of the speakers at a maybe a better view of some of the legislators such slater's and the other people inside the top section of the he indicated that he didn't think they were listening to one thing that was being said thousands. That being said I didn't get that impression however remains to be seen but they argon is what they might do We do have a ninety six Republican advantage over the Democrats that are county oppose well and play this out because they're not gonNA give it to US silver platter we're going for Nobo- nobody's going to volunteer this stuff. You have to work for it. You have to demand it you have to show up again and again. I'M GONNA make a couple of suggestions and you. You Prodi audie already had there but if you when you do it again if you haven't done it already find a way to capture the names and email addresses of all the supporter who show up. Whether you're passing around a tablet that everybody can put it on some way that you can go back and touch all these people again and and the second part of that is what you just said is you are going to have to go back again and again because these elected politicians they're going to sit there and think well there was a one time deal and then if you show up the next week the next month and then the next month and all of a sudden they're going okay. This is for real. This is actually something that's going on. We better pay attention even though oh I'm not sure about these guys except that when you get to a rural county like you're talking about they actually know each other than they know the farmers they know the pharmacist is to her showing up there. They know they know the people there. Actually and it's different from a huge a place where you've got millions of people where you may not know the people who are showing up and they may think of them as those people. It's it's different when they're looking out there and seeing the faces of the people they actually do business with isn't it and and that's one of our greatest strength is that we tend to know these people back chairman who I had a little discussion about that timeline with he's a farmer Bond Forfeit officer and we spoke on Friday and he's on our side these it quoted a second amendment rally right after the New York state safe access fast and he hopes that we can make this happen. Mindy lawyers like he did a great point if you go talk to the people who are on the Board on the Supervisory Commission whatever the unit unit is they often make suggestions of how to be more effective. Well if you guys want to do this. Here's something you may want to try and so you go meet with them over coffee sometime and just say look if you have any suggestions of ways that we can do better at this lot. hems okay yeah you know here's a here's a thing and all the sudden it's not you guys doing it. They become part of the whole thing. And you're all working together so I just gotTa congratulate you and that is great. Please please continue and please keep us posted if you would do my best and It would be great if it's good. I'll come together because we're all under the gun so to speak for under the thumb or the food deal of the downstairs. Do WanNa take away our rights our constitutional rights even even to assemble. Also still doing that. And we'RE GONNA keep up the fight twenty and party. I love it there. You go thank you so much much. Appreciate that yeah this twenty and twenty idea. I think they may have some legs. I wasn't sure I just came up with this thing out of nowhere aware. But I'm really encouraged by people who are deciding. Yeah we will do this. It's not a lot to ask everybody twenty minutes. I mean if you can't do it every day you do it whenever you can but if you can do it everyday that's great first thing is to just get informed every day you go online to go look at my twitter feed you look at Ammo. Land Dot COM com. You find your sources. Be careful about your sources though. Make sure that your vetting them carefully and they want your informed you send an email or two two or you make a comment are letter to the editor or just contacts and friends are put something back. You know what you could take article that you see and then re posted on your the facebook page and then you share that it's all about getting the word out. Twenty and twenty twenty. I think that's how we win. We'll be right back clips magazines bullets cartridges. What's all the fuss? Here's the guy with the answers. Tom Gresham you know we love to give away waitstaff around here that gun talk doing another of our big giveaways. This is a bunch of sixty six. Our you know the people make really nice guns gun. TALKED DOT com slash win gun talk dot Com Slash Win W. I in give it away. Let's prize number one across Bolt Cross Awesome Bolt Action Rifle. That's their cool brand new folding stock bolt action rifle from this was in six creed more giving away a biak system along with a kilo. Oh sixteen hundred range finer that's cool scope and range finder to talk to each other so it does the automatic adjustments for you giving away a piece three twenty x spy Legion pistol and also a P.. Three twenty x full Romeo one pro. We're giving away a lot of stuff all right. Just go to gun talk dot com slash win. You can enter. It's free there. You go eight six talk gun. We'll get you in here. Let's see here. We WanNa make sure we still have jacks and Yeah Jackson AH ON LINE five with out of Tulsa Oklahoma. Hey Jackson how are you. I'm good how are you. I'm good. How old are you and twelve? Okay so what what do you want to talk about. So I wanNA talk about the Oh sorry the diamondback talk Fifteen pistou fifteen pistol caliber All right so what do you think do you do you guys have one knows you so I was trying to get your opinion on it and she You wonder have you ever shot one have not. I don't own one half shot various ones. Let's say this first of all we're going back up first of all for those sure wondering this this would be owned by your parents and not by you because you cannot at this point by a pistol yourself not not at your age Here's the first of all I take it. You are shooter right now. I'm not a hundred percent. Sure on that you don't know what gun shoot. What do you go to the rain? I thought she said where DO I. She what is issue. What kind of guns do you like to shoot I like so I'm trying to get into Ar Fifteen Haven't shot one yet don on thinking. This isn't good started But because I'm younger I'm trying to get the pistol instead of the actual air fifteen. I'm trying to get the shorter though. Okay let me let me throw a thought out here and again. We're assuming this is going to be something your parents by that you get get to shoot which is perfectly legal. I am going to recommend going a different way. I'm going to recommend that you go with a a regular monitoring on a regular air fifteen with a collapsible stock in two to three cartridge with the whole sixteen niche barrel not a pistol version. You'RE GONNA find it easier to shoot you're gonNA find it to be very versatile with that collapsible stock you'll be able to make it fit no matter how how tall you are and you'll have it for life air fifteen pistols are kind of specialized. And there's you know there's cool. Cool factor actor to them. But it's a bit limiting and they're really more for self defense and when you go out to the range to shoot. I think you're GONNA find it to be not as accurate and not not getting ended up not being as much fun and with an Ar fifteen with shooting two to three cartridge you can shoot from three yards out to nine hundred hundred yards with. It depends on what you WanNa do and I think you just GonNa find it to be more versatile. And they're very affordable these days and I would encourage you and your parents stew get a full fifteen. Get you a couple dozen magazines for it because you're going to shoot a lot and have some fun that way all right thank you. I appreciate the call Sir. Let's see here. Do just talk online for marks with this out of Hampton in Virginia. Hey Mark what's on your mind sir. Tom this. Listen when you were talking about the beginning of the show about the home invasion Yeah one of the things that I've taken precautions to do is We have a storm door and I told my wife always keep it locked. They they have to get through that door. I won't we'll give you a warning 'cause they can't they can't just propped the door opening. Kick Your Ata door I bought a security one at lowes. It's to have a glass or the membrane and and it's got a upper three lock in points with the long screws and so you can't just yank it open. You can't Glasgow ask but inside of that on the interior door. I bought a kit online. You can find them. They the door hardening kits basically. It's a play about three three and a half feet long goes on your door. jamb with foreign charton screws. And then you've got plates that go around your lock assembly and your hinges and it makes makes it really difficult to just kick the door in so you didn't get through to the outer door. They have a hard time getting into if nothing else is severely hampers. Their ability ability gives you plenty of time it will probably run them off. I don't live in a fancy neighborhood where they're gonNA get thousands or even tens of thousands of dollars with items. It's just GonNa be average Doug Punks Neighborhood Robbie not going to be interested in working hard to get in to get a very minimal amount of stuff you no. I think I think you are right on the money with your thinking which is you simply made make it harder for for them to get in you discourage them if they get tired of trying to kick an door and it's not getting anywhere they're probably going to bail out but the other thing it does for you from a personal security standpoint of just keeping you and your family safe is it gives you time to react. And that's where having an alarm system or I like the blink system. Something that alerts you. Hey there's somebody walked up the driveway. There's somebody walking up to the front door before they get there and you what's going on now. What you've done is reinforced? Enforce the door if they're having a kick and bang make all this noise. You have time to wake up you know. Call Nine one one. Get your gun. Hunkered down in your room. Don't go looking for trouble. I mean that's one of the things I try to get people to understand. Don't go looking for trouble if you think breaking in. Lock your your bedroom. Headroom door hunker in their stay on nine one one make them come to you. Don't you go to them. Yeah so I do have a ring doorbell. L. And everything so that helps but before I had the doorbell and I had all of this other stuff I've done I say try to make it more difficult to discourage him but nothing else that cause I'm you we always have my gun on me here beside me one of whom I just. I'm pretty much carry all the time except that work where they kind of frown on that but but still if you're not thinking about it and in some just busted you don't worry and well you know. They've got their advantage. Even though you're armed right there I'd rather get kind of some kind of warning that somebody get in. Dan and I can at least be prepared. I agree I mean their heads up like that makes a huge difference. I like the way you're thinking you've done very well with that and look. I appreciate your sharing that with us. Excellent ideas reinforce. Your door lights Those security lights come on most. Your lights are excellent A ring doorbell or the blink link system set. The dog gyms dog dog. Dogs are excellent. You know nobody wants to go. I don't care how big or small the dog is. Nobody will get in. They're getting bit by a dog not a bad idea. What else do you do? How do you make your home secure? And what conversations have you had with your family about situations situations like that eight six six talk gun when someone leaves you there gun collection you may want a few. What do you do with the rest? How do you you sell them? Who Do you call? Well high called Johnny Durie at Dury's guns whether you're selling one gun or five hundred they'll tell you what it's it's worth and write you a check. Simple quick easy fair. I trust juries guns. Give them a call during his guns. Dot Com folks. This is Tom Gresham from gun. Talk a miracle is used in critical wildlife habitat at a rate of one football. Theo every hour. It's happening on the Louisiana coast. But it's critical to all sportsmen conservationists these precious wetlands provides winter habitat for more than ten in million ducks and geese annual waterfowl that migrate North who dozens of state. Don't shrug it get involved. You can help visit banishing Paradise Dot Org in Twenty Twenty Brownell continues its tribute to Eugene stoner the legendary designer of the fifteen fifteen eighty one eighty and more the what would stone her do twenty twenty rifle answers. The question of what's donor would have done with. Modern lightweight materials inspired by another others stone. Her Design Brown B. R.. One eighty lower receivers helped complete firearms optimized for folding stocks pistol braces visit Brownell Dot com today and pay tribute to one of America's greatest firearm engineers. And we were we were talking about home invasions and along with that. We always talk about carjackings. Those seem to be increasing. You have to assume that a carjacking is a life threatening situation. They turn into kidnappings attorney eighty two rapes. They turned into murders. Here's a situation story just out of the news today. The Oakland couldn't county sheriff pulls over a fake cop car guys. Suv All dolled up. I'm looking at the pictures of it. I mean it looks like a cop car. He's got shiels olds on it. Big decals got lights. He's got he's not a cop which reminds me conversation for you to have have with all the members of your family especially the youngsters who are starting to drive particularly the girls particularly the women in your family. It is not unheard of for creepy voids to put lights on their vehicles or just up on the dash and pull over women at night. Here's the rule. Here's the deal. He could driving along at night particular. If you're in an isolated area man or woman cop car comes on behind you lights flashing keepdriving slowdown go speed limit but immediately call nine one on one call nine one one say look this is where I am and there appears to be a police car behind me. Can you verify you know this is real. Meanwhile you keep driving. And and there's some police officers who are GonNa get mad that you didn't pull right over tough we'll work work it out later and you go to a lighted area gas station bank someplace where their lights parking lot. You can pull over there but get on the horn with nine one one and call them but don't go pull it over on the side of the road and some isolated part of the world out there until you have verification from nine one one one that this is a real police officer back behind you. This stuff is real the happens that you have people with real mental problems this this guy. It's actually Oakland County Michigan. I'm looking at this guy. Had A COP car. It looks like a cop car and he went to a lot of work to make AAC this thing. Look like a fake cop car you have to ask yourself. What were his intentions? Nothing good that I can think of. Mike's in Helena Montana on five. Hey Mike got to raise a force. It's I do I I after the church. Shooting in Texas I have arranged here at my house but what I did was. I tried to replicate putting target and then shooting from about fifty feet. I think the the Jack Wilson drill right and my whole point is GonNa be. We might think. I think we're practiced up enough but we're probably not From from fifty feet I was shooting about ninety percent torso now now. The shot he made obviously was incredible. But what that told me was even though I am a concealed carry holder and I do practice I need to start up my game just a little bit because that that clearly I I'm not as good as I thought it was interesting. Where you practicing shooting while? You're drawing drawing shooting. I was practicing from the concealed draw. And that was is GonNa be my other My other thing was I carry normally a SIG three sixty five. And and all of my whole all of my holsters for Kerry. My point is GonNa be that all the holsters are the same. They're all in outside the waistband. Pancake AAC at about the four o'clock and I find whether it's my Sr twenty two or forty five or my three sixty five they all come from in the same spot. They all kind of work the same way. The only one I don't do that with my l. c. p.. which is my gun like you that I carry one? I can't carry a gun right right. The gun carrier when you can't carry a gun right so I think I was fast. Not that fast. The goal you know steady and sure to me is the goal but just accuracy wise. I'm not I wasn't as good as I thought I was going to be. All right I got to do first of all for everybody who is serious about this. You must have a timer. Must have shot timer not not a phone APP but but a real short timer. It's they're not that expensive and it lasts forever And so you know it's got a delay you push the button just like when it goes beep then at times. You know what you're trying to do is just get faster and better but at the same time you have to be accurate. That's your point. Go to the office supply place and buy you a big stack of three three by five cards. Just regular three five cards and you put them on the target horizontally and that where the head is. That's you gotta be able to hit a three by five card actually better for smaller. But if you can hit that you can make a headshot and that's your target it's not the torso you want. Hit a horizontal three by five five card. Input all your shots. And they're if it means slowing down so be it. Hits are more important than speed because you can't miss somebody fast enough to make them stop. People generally speaking but I got applaud. You Mike for going out and doing it and finding out and yes if we don't test it we'll never no no we walk around with this idea that hey I'm pretty good. I've taken some lessons I practice and then you go back to the new. That's harder than I thought. And I'm I'm not as good as I thought I had. I thank you for the call hand for all of us. None of us is as good as we should be. Almost none of us is as good as as we think we are. If you're not actually testing whether it's competition just going out with a buddy and trying to one and trying to beat that that other guy. How do you test tested? How do you know how good you are here? We go again. We've seen this before in other states. this is California Yuba City California India the Sutter County Sheriff is alerting concealed carry weapons holders after a public records request prompted him to release we some of their information Shariff Brandon. Barnes says that the San Francisco Chronicle that it's a newspaper. That's an old form of communication by the way. The San Francisco Chronicle recently put in their requests for information about concealed carry permit holders and an applications. The Sheriff said he personally personally declined to release of information but was advised by the county council to provide some data so he provided the permit numbers. The Name I love the permit holders and the dates of issue expiration exactly. What the chronicles? Using the information for has not been stated. We've seen this in the past where newspapers actually published the names and addresses people who had gotten concealed carry permits. These newspapers are laboring under some idea that they are working for a higher cause. Shine the light on it. People should know who has concealed carry permits people should know if their neighbors are carrying guns. Get all sounds so lofty until you get what happened. In these other cases where where parole officers. He has a concealed carry permit. He was away from home and one of the people he deals deals with criminal goes to his home when his wife is there. He's not there. Criminal shows up at his home. Wife's there fortunately nothing bad happened. We had one woman who was in hiding from an abusive ex husband. This guy's been trying to kill her and the newspaper. She got a carry permit because she was afraid and the newspaper published her name and her address and she had to move in the middle of the night. I think possibly efforts like this by the media to docks. That's the new term for document released documents on someone to docks people. It's interesting I think they would. They would say Docs is terrible. Horrible thing to do at the same time while they're actually doc zing concealed carry holders. But I think it comes from their belief that nobody actually needs a carry permit. And it's a bad idea for anybody to have a gun or to have a gun for self defense to carry a gun and never even imagining that they might be exposing abused women to lethal threats. They might be giving away the location of people who are hiding from people who are trying to kill them. It's very weird situation but when you start off with the idea that where we are we know better. We're smarter are we are the media after all. If you actually were smart you would be part of the media. I've actually had that almost said just that way. We simply no better and then you get the whole you people idea and they never even consider that their actions are putting people in danger all of that to say that look yes of course you have a concealed carry. I should assume that some point that information we'll get out always conduct yourself with operational security in mind. Careful talk to your family about things like that. There are bad people out there. UNFORTU- they're bad people in the media will give away your information as well eight six six six talk gun. You gotTa Range Report. Tell me what you've been shooting. We'll be right back.

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The Machete Murderer

Murder Minute

19:52 min | 10 months ago

The Machete Murderer

"Welcome to murder minutes today the story of the machete murderer but I your true crime headlines. Three people have been arrested in connection with the disappearance of a Connecticut. Mother of five who who vanished nearly eight months ago fifty year old Jennifer Delos was last seen dropping her children off at school just after eight. Am On may twenty fourth and was reported missing by worried friends later that night. Her car was found about three miles from her home and stains in homes garage tested positive for human blood. Authorities believe that Jennifer Duos was the victim of serious physical assault and she was presumed dead though her body has never been found surveillance video captured. What is believed to be focused? Delos disposing of trash bags at various trash receptacles opticals around Hartford and police found clothing in those trash bags. That contained Jennifer's blood at the time of her disappearance Jennifer for Delos was involved in a contentious custody battle with her estranged husband photos Dulas in court filings. Mrs Dulas described hyped. Her husband's behavior as controlling and bullying and expressed that she was fearful of him. Mr Dulas has denied these accusations and has denied nine any involvement in the disappearance of his wife in September authorities charged photos delos and his girlfriend. Michelle Trachoni's this with tampering. With physical evidence and hindering prosecution in connection with the case both pleaded not guilty and were released on bond last week. Both were arrested again along with a third man. Kent Moeny an attorney and friend photos. Delos this time delos. This was charged with murder felony murder and kidnapping while Trachoni's and Moeny worth charged with conspiracy to commit murder delos enter. Conus have both been released to await trial after posting multimillion dollar bonds but moeny remains behind bars. His bond is set at two million dollars. There's a twenty nine year old Utah. Bowman spent a month searching the Internet for ways to kill someone before stabbing having her four year old daughter to death. According to police Nicole lustrous phone contained Google searches for questions. Like how do you break breakneck. And where is the best place to hit someone with an axe police discovered the searches during their investigation into the murder of Leicester's young daughter. You're who was stabbed to death by her mother in what investigators call a premeditated attack. Police were called to Leicester's home in West Valley City Utah Utah around five. AM on December thirty first. When they arrived they found four year old lady? Voss in the home's basement she he's been stabbed more than thirty times and a ceramic kitchen knife covered in blood was found near her body. Her wounds were so severe that they punctured her internal internal organs and nearly severed her shoulder and wrist. Her six year. Old Brother was asleep in the home unharmed and was turned over to Leicester's mother who owns the House and was not home at the time of the murder. Lester faces charges of murder and aggravated murder and could face the death penalty. If convicted in Oregon man is facing attempted murder and hate crime charges for allegedly beating a seventy year old immigrants from India in the office of the Motel that she owned fifty-three-year-old James Lamb of Eugene was charged with attempted murder by his crime mm-hmm assault burglary strangulation menacing and criminal mischief for the attack. which occurred on New Year's Eve at the hub motel and Redmond and were landed been staying? The victim suffered broken bones in the brutal attack but is expected to survive. She offered her grand jury testimony testimony from her hospital bed where she remains as she recovers from her injuries. The grand jury decided to include the bias crimes based on statements that lamb I made regarding the victim's country of origin expressing his desire to rid America of people like her lamb is being held on fifty thousand dollars bail as he awaits his next court appearance. Those were your true crime headlines up next the man who killed over twenty five people in a small town but first a quick break finding the right vitamins and supplements can be tricky. If you get overwhelmed and the vitamin like I do. Chances Are you've given up more and once and opted for the same one-size-fits-all multivitamin that everyone else is taking. But for me this year is different. I dumped I'm told all my old stale multivitamins because my New Year's resolution for twenty twenty is to take better care of my body. That's why I've just ordered heard care of care of a wellness brand that helps you maintain your health goals with a customized vitamin plan. That helps you feel your best with quality. Real ingredients backed by science and research. No snake oil here cavs. Online quiz is quick and easy but comprehensive. It asked me questions. Like how much sleep do you get never enough. How often do you work out? Rarely do you follow Louis Specialty Diets. That's a different resolution. and Are you concerned about your hair skin and nail health. Yes yes and yes Kirov helped me find the vitamins and powders support my specific health goals this year. Some that I've never even heard of before like Ushwyn Gonda to manage my stress and asked to Santa for my skin and some familiar wants to like magnesium for sleep support calcium plus us from my bones and cranberry for my urinary health and Karros vitamins come in handy. eco-friendly daily packs made of composed instable films. So taking care of yourself isn't just good for you. It's good for the planet to perfect for helping me stick to both of my New Year's resolutions solutions on the go. So what are you waiting for. Take care of yourself for fifty percents off your I care of order. Go to take care of DOT COM and enter the code minute fifty. That's fifty percent off your first care of order by going to take care of dot of calm and entering the code minute fifty. That's M. I. N. beauty e five zero. Take care of yourself. Welcome to murder minutes today. How the machete murderer was caught? Yuba City California sits forty miles north of Sacramento at the bottom of the CETERA. beauts a mountain range known as the world's smallest the modest size agricultural town is known for the feather river a gigantic fruit processing plant and a thriving Sikh community in one thousand nine hundred ninety one a spree of brutal crimes rocked city taking the lives of at least twenty five migrant workers In May of that year a peach grower was surveying his orchard when he spotted a gaping hole in the ground beside a pile of freshly scooped soil bill at about five feet long and two feet wide. It looked more like a gravesite than anything hard cultural when he returned later later to find the whole filled suspicion prompted him to phone the local sheriff's departments soon. After three feet beneath the ground authorities discovered the remains a forty year old laborer Kenneth would occur like many of the Workers Kenneth had been down and out when he sought employment environment in the fields. Their most members of the largely male worker community struggled with issues that made day labor their only option alcoholism drug addiction poverty homelessness a lack of needed healthcare little to no support system. That's probably why little is publicly known about Kenneth beyond his brutal murder other than his age newspapers only described him as a homeless transient labor. A drifter but we do know he was born in the early nineteen thirty s and probably endured many hardships. It's not a smooth life the ten Philan- someone on the streets. He was a teenager throughout world. War Two during his twenties the civil rights movement took form of the the US is increasingly. More people began speaking out and protesting about racism and other forms of discrimination a collective fight for justice. There was nothing just about Kenneth Sudden death. The killer had sexually assaulted him stabbed and mutilated his body and split his head open with a machete. He was found lying on his back with his left arm. Position across his chest his right arm raised and his shirt pulled up over his head. According to court records an autopsy also showed stab wounds from a knife or knife like instruments in his left chest the ar up between his left lung and heart had been slashed which was determined to be the cause of death experts deduced that he had likely been dead less than twenty four hours when he was found six days later. Another body was discovered a similar shallow grave at nearby ranch then another near the feather river. A serial killer had made his way into this rural town and investigators believe he remained in in very close proximity as the manhunt surged. Eric Grinder an eager young reporter for Appeal Democrat. A A local daily newspaper was given exclusive access to the crime scenes. He was in the hospital recovering from knee surgery at the time though and missed out on initial coverage Ridge. His wife showed him front page headlines about the case. Look at what you're missing and within days. The journalist was hobbling around the scenes on crutches. Taking speaking at all in this wasn't exactly. CSI He later told the paper. It was a bunch of guys in small towns sheriff's department with a case that that would have challenged the best department anywhere as leads began to accumulate bodies were transferred to a local funeral home for identification occasion and autopsies filling the establishment beyond capacity the owner and funeral director. Albert Omar returned home home from honeymooning in Hawaii to find his exam room. Crowded with the victims. bludgeoned remains iding. Them wasn't easy. Because of the extent of the wounds and the body's decay according to render most of the corpses were too far gone for anyone to determine whether they had been raped or not on on top of that because many of the deceased were marginalized from society. Neither friends nor loved ones were lining up to find or identify them there. We're no missing person. Posters or public searches to link to as the murder count climbed reaching ten. Investigators found key the pieces of evidence near some of the Bodies Bank records and receipts from market showing the name and signature of thirty seven year. Old Quon v Corona Rona Yuba city police officer Jesse Escobedo one of the only available agents spoke. Spanish accompany detectives to the suspect's aspects home when they arrived corona and his wife seemed very nervous. Escobedo told the local paper the parachute their daughters to their respective bedrooms before veto read the man his rights and arrested him handcuffed in the back of the police. Car Corona asked Escobedo data for advice. Get yourself attorney. The officer suggested two more bodies were discovered before that day's end within a week investigators exhumed the remains of a total of twenty five men then the search was called off not because they thought they had found and all of the victims but because the orchards would need increasingly more water soon which would make finding remains extremely difficult officers also believed saved. They had enough for a conviction all but one of the victims had been slashed in the head with a machete or smaller knife many had upper body stab wounds. One had been shot. All of the men had either worked as a contractor for corona or been seen with him and all the bodies bodies were positioned as Kenneth was one arm raised up the shirt they were wearing pulled up over their head. When detectives searched Coronas Coronas truck and home? They found numerous items that seemed connected to the crimes including a meat cleaver a machete with an eighteen inch blade. I wouldn't club Uh a post hole digger which is used to dig narrow holes to install posts such as for fences and a ledger containing a list of thirty four transient workers. Several of the victims names appeared on that list. Ranch hands were not surprised by coronas arrest earlier earlier in his life. He spent several months in a state hospital after intense hallucinations. And Delusions. Led to a diagnosis of schizophrenia. And while most people with schizophrenia aren't violent corona had a reputation for just that non for angry violent outbursts. Plenty of people feared him in issue of life magazine from June nineteen seventy-one included a full page black and white shadowy photo. A feather river framed by a mess of tangled brush. The headline read Grizzly harvest mass murder and Yuba city the accompanying being text said the twenty five murders represented the worst mass murder of the twentieth century in the United States. A trial trial began two years later and it was a bit of a mess. Judge Richard F Patton said. He was truly appalled and almost incredulous us at the floundering prosecution who were accused of mishandling evidence at this point Patton said according to court documents it appears the investigation. Instigation was inept the preparation inefficient and the prosecution inadequate. Even so enough circumstantial. Evidence was presented said to convict Corona of all twenty five counts of murder for each of which he was given a life sentence. Seven years later. A state appellate court overturned his conviction on the grounds at his attorney had made a farce and mockery of the trial seeming even less competent than the bumbling humbling prosecution. The defence hadn't even call a single witness so corona was granted a new trial at which his defense tried to point finger his brother according to the Washington Post a man who exhibited many Ecole rage from quote the frustration of a morbid sexuality but no physical evidence linked him to the crimes corona testified on his own behalf at that second trial again claiming his innocence in a sense and deny any involvement in the killings. More than two hundred witnesses were called overspent of seven months at the end jurors reached the same verdict. Guilty of twenty five counts of murder. He would maintain a life sentence. Charged for each many. The people speculated that at least one other person had to be somehow involved but no one else was ever charged or convicted. Theories abound about about coronas motivations for the killing spree which is believed to have lasted six weeks. He had known anger issues. Targeted at gay men and gay porn was found near one. Victim's victim's body his limited mental health care was insufficient involving twenty-three shock treatments after which he was pronounced recovered that that was years before the killings later coined the machete murders according to news accounts from two thousand eleven corona. told a psychiatrist that he killed the man because he believed they were trespassing minos one psychiatrist even theorized that his madness increased as spring deepened and ripened fruits at the orchards after he emigrated in the nineteen fifties corona witnessed a deadly flooding along the river. You're which traumatized him adding to his ongoing mental health struggles his brother not TV. Wrote about this in a petition for his institutionalization in nineteen eighteen fifty five stating that quote. He believed everyone in. This area has drowned in the flood. He reads the Bible and writes all the time. Corona never made parole though. He applied eight times and spent the rest of his days in prison in Nineteen ninety-two he was transferred. It to the sensitive needs yard after being diagnosed with dementia he died in March of two thousand nineteen at the age of eighty five. His victims names included John. J Hulkah- Warren Jerome Kelly Siegert Bearman. John John Smallwood Mark Shields dzhokarville. Raymond Mucci Kenneth Whitaker Melford Sample Bowl Charles. Fleming Donald Smith William Kempe Albert Riley Paul Allen William Henry Kemp Clarence Hawking Edward Martin Cup. John Henry Jackson Lloyd Wallace went saw. Aw Sam von defied and John macek four of discovered bodies were never identified. This has been murder minutes as for true crime anytime. Download the murder minute APP or follow us on Instagram at murder minute.

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