20 Episode results for "Yorkshire"

163: Thursday in the Yorkshire Wolds

The Cycling Podcast

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

163: Thursday in the Yorkshire Wolds

"You listening to the cycling podcast in association with Rafeh the fastest clothing in the world tour the home name cycling with character Rydin Watch with rapper in two thousand nineteen as they partner e F education fast and canyons throb Lionel. We are at the WHOA talk aw brewery in a blurry bit of North Yorkshire or at least Blur to me because I've had a tough day on the bike riding the inaugural world champion chicks. Let's see what we did there. Amazon drinking cycling podcast Beer as well afterwards the Yorkshire Wolves told old and we did a seventy four kilometer bike ride and we've got an audience in front of US seventy five people hello everyone collide bunch and all very competent cyclists. Everybody finished. I think everybody's here. Is Anybody not here to the right. Are there Lionel's only just here and anyone who didn't overtake me today. I have a word with Salads. No really competent bunch of cyclist. Klis said there was only one guy came I am with no innertube no puncture para que no pump even and he unfortunately no tire levers and he had three punctures so just wanted that was you was me she say so. Lionel here Daniel Free Your first appearance championship daunting virtual reality not podcasting. Welcome welcome Daniel. Did you ever get helping people fixing energy. I didn't have a bike I completely some of the the ride but without a bike round the twist to this from Star Trek yapped excellent so well. Normally we show up on what's it happened in the racing today so because we're riding Francois and dining were detailed to study the engineer senior road race and tell us all about it. If you guys would like to take away please and now onto Daniel lap-by-lap doc plays detail Daniel was actually worrying the car and we and we were actually trying to help trying to help people fixing the punctures and while I was going out taking they can pictures Daniela say was actually watching the junior racism la phone so he knows everything even even know school one. I Donahue Scottish rider with a fairly GBS birth. Certificate are more tact after five kilometers attacked out the back but the winner was Quinn Simmons. Ah I know the guy he's American on. They won the junior this year. He was shoeless for the race. I think he's tissue broke off the not today. Get a he peddled barefooted very much in the spirit of the second podcast World Championship pedal baffled for a few kilometers in given specialties in one getting payable government today. I think attacked on his island. yeah for one fatty fatty me. I'm the any any other mandalit metals awarded race. There was an American third as well. I noticed that the man who didn't mention one hundred Verde for the whole of welter young bride Alfie George. I think it was seventh. I'm we actually had him on the podcast briefly I think is I spoke to him after the UCI generic conference so I was like a strong performance from him who was second and third Lionel Lsu Martinelli of Italy was second and Good Yorkshire Latte from America Magnus Sheffield with it sounds like a great race the fastest clothing in the world tour the home of cycling with character Rydin Watch with rapper in one thousand nine hundred as they partner e F education fast and canyons ramp. Thank you very much to Rafael or title sponsor. I've actually got a Rafeh Yorkshire Collection and Copier to award this to somebody's very fetching the colors blue and yellow. WHO's the most charming peddler today the the most stylish looking rider while I mean I'd like to know Lionel. I was GONNA say perhaps give it to the most overtaken writer in which case I saw clearly the winner but there was a chap who came to my rescue and gave me an NGO. It was a science more energy. Where wonderfully of a message can you thank you very much. Rafeh which you have to wear for the rest of the I think so here we are well. We had Francois Making his debut on the podcasts at the world championships last night. We learned that it was only your Second World Championship. You've been a AM Daniel. You've joined us for the next couple of days. How many worlds have you been to might've been two thousand one. Verona two thousand full maturity two thousand five two thousand seven nine in about seven or eight. I think definite Florence in Florence Pump Rawda and we were we in Florida together. I remember seeing the experience harrogate yet and all it has to offer but we're GONNA look ahead tonight to them. The we can on the road race interest under twenty three road race Republican a missed most of that as well because we've gotta show tomorrow night in Harrogate and but what we thinking about Sunday in the men's road trace 'em Francois. It's funny because ever since we arrived in in this beautiful place very welcoming and oh you know everybody's been buying me beer's as you said and everybody else had also been asking me that question is going to win on Sunday which is the sort of questioned and that normally would never answer the in in on the podcast because we're serious people will not making lame six seeks as we say in French so I won't. I won't make lame promising told everyone here everybody who asked me that Greg another Matt would win it so let let me elaborate on that. It's it's you know I'm taking a risk there because obviously if he doesn't many chances you want. I'll look a fool but I I I don't mind this part of the game so why Greg Anathema because it's a long course and I on it'll be as we all know a kind of a battle of deal generation against the new generation. We've seen that cycling in in in in the last couple of months evolved considerably younger generation coming clean up all as Evan Pool the way again Bernales not here but I mean all these guys you know under twenty two guys kind of stealing the show so after after all guys anything left in there in the tank too to win the words I think that given the difficulty of of the costs given the length of the course I mean some. Some of these guys are vendor. The vendor ever rode competitively over two hundred K's so it'll be you know different directions corner point of order. I want to go in April which to show about yes sure about. I need to say this. In the same. Way Is with Philippe. There are guys like Vanna Matt is done is done these races over two hundred and fifty case more than twenty times in his career so they have the experience since the to pace themselves to whether will be terrible as we saw in Rio. The only guy didn't crash Greg's another. Matt with the Belgian. Team is absolutely absolutely massive this year with getting the same experience so the only thing you can tell me. What are you what you're saying about? The novel Matt Applies to Financial Bilas well right to pick one of the two but so strong team experience and the other thing is a road lots and nothing's another kind the held back a little. This season in the results used to even in the tour didn't really go for stage wins. My impression is that he was really building. This is up to a world championships. He really thinks is going to win. So all these little things put together to me. Make Creek van of and taught me a logic favorite and so I talked a little bit about the others I don't think will win it because the French team is not as strong as it could be an for all the reasons I said affiliate probably wrote a little bit too much season started very early did lots in during the tour and the from okay we didn't Milan-san remo is it's never been at its best in the in the longest the longer distances dad compares with Anathema. All even you know some of the more experienced riders I it will be the key on Sunday so that that's my tip you mentioned bad weather. I mean we being here so far. We've learned the Yorkshire accuweather forecast. Well not terribly accurate. I mean today was supposed to be worse than actually turned out to be always playing darts with Belgian TV journalist shorter last night and he was out of that was fine fine. Klay dogs indoors Richard and and he was saying that in Belgium on national broadcaster the number three Weatherman Echo uh-huh doing the weather yesterday and to make a name for himself he predicted howling gales crosswinds in storms on Sunday and it's become like a big story in the news at the road race is going to be you know real fast in the weather stakes but the run unbelievable. He's basically just said it to make a name for himself moving up the weatherman pecking order but if it gets it wrong. I'm the one that's going to change them but weatherman and then get it wrong. Should they slide down the pecking order. Look at my goldfish Belgian journalists and I'm tipping Bob Dole's because because because a good friend and colleague Hugo couvet who is one of the longest serving journalists in the press pack. I mean he's not he's not necessarily renowned for. Its speculative capacities. I'll give you getting Zombie to illustrate the point. There was one day in the welter innovator. We were standing in the press behind the finish line. Punctually every ten minutes the last hour of the race he knows Freebie Freebie Vandersanden attention pay attention when the sun and then it would terminate it'd be another Lotto pseudo writer and he ran through the whole roster and the Freebie pay attention yes but the boost in the US Parr's even writing the world's anyway Hugo said to me the other day Freebie bench and Bob Young Bob Young's is going to win the war. Was He paying attention to the time trial. I mean bobby ingles way over the pace and time intro finish well done. I wasn't paying attention. Was He really that far off the by the time John. It depends depends once again. I'm not sure we will go is the best as you say for tips. I mean is is well. Well known to old depress offices older racism on the planet because he's. The guy is closing down the press from every day at ten o'clock news evening. You know so at A. I know I'm poppy and goes. I was surprised his yeah ordinarily you would have thought the both time drawn road race would would sue him if he doesn't. I think it formed but he seems to eat such a strong kind of spring classics campaign and and he's been really off the boil Jiro and ever since then what some of them have view chaps been out on the roof of you if you you know what it's GonNa be because I mean altitude meters which are not particularly eh guide anything. Maybe it's about three thousand five hundred meters which would put it somewhere around. Madrid does Madrid didn't really have a big Klima than two thousand five Tabun and whatnot. They've been a few that have been there there about three thousand five hundred kind of mid range think he goes up as high as two thousand meters doesn't no it doesn't took the unusual thing about this. I think is the reason I flat road radiation and I think it's just it's dozens and dozens if not hundreds of small accelerations wins which is why People WanNa reasons why people are saying fun to poll is is you know the hot favourite is he. The favorite I mean what do you think Daniel for that. The reason I mean you know different people who know better than me. I would say the I mean the the uncertainty is his lack of in long race. I think you go over two hundred fifty combs contingent sixty Columbus as we say milan-sanremo ever year. It's a strange finale. You get guys sprinting will shine abilities in sprints hop other guys who've fade bodily off the two hundred sixty two eight hundred seventy kilometers. We don't really have any reference points over those distances so it could be something completely different from what we expect. Yeah I talked to lots of all writers like Chamo- to use to tell me it's the same as the third weekend in the grand tour or is the same altitudes over two thousand meters. There're there are writers or that there is there's a level past two hundred fifty or two hundred sixty. I mean every writer this limit when all of a sudden peaks and it's finished and I don't think we've seen that very very often within the pool and the thing is well the the important factor of the work which is all the time is we saw so last year with Valverde will really were preparing soil for the climate's overseas in other words is really I think some of the Rogers really the to pace themselves to to get to make the worse their objective you've got and of the season riders were Michael. Choose one who's always in top shape but the the end of the season then sometimes not so much before so you have to take all these things into account and for these reasons I think of course on paper then the pool if it doesn't on winning this year he will win it in. Maybe two or three times in the next ten years but this season to me. Maybe a little bit early but but I I I got it wrong so many times the young riders in the last couple of years I mean we've seen these young guys beat Minnaso- exceptional extrordinary that we don't no actually they're they're kind of changing the rules preventable one three stages and the overall to a Britain. He was really impressive. One particular day I think Kendall one hundred and seventy three kilometers that was making me sound like you know they should coming off. The top of my head is it's on my laptop here. That's how the podcast works but but D- D you lose that kind of acceleration jump hundred kilometers later. I mean I'll get obviously you do but you know you're still racing like against like it wasn't like he was beating motto. Trentino and this much Trenton is a name we shouldn't but I mean the the it's funny because there was a dispute when the Canadian races launch that that that that seemed to be in the minds of the Rogers two ways to prepare for the words one was was to do the welter because you have my the mileage or go to Canada because they're down the same kind of racist circles races long races over two hundred and thirty days and it is it is one of the other I've I've never heard the tour of Britain being being turned to prepare for the words but why not Kwiatkoski I gave you one when somebody's some writers did through while after having ridden the tour Britain yeah yeah and I also think it'd be more of a factor. I mean we kind of know the British road are slightly different different European roads and having ridden the tour Britain they are. They'll be the sensations as Dutch say we'll be. We'll talk up top. Good point of Anathema also don't forget has written very well and here in Yorkshire isn't they have a tour of Yorkshire and and he's definitely somebody somebody capable of a Belgian T. may be on advantage or or a disadvantage she knows but there are so many how many mentioned pizza gone or Alejandro Valverde of course you know he's the the wealth of second of wealth and are we saw what all the wealth of to think on Drug Lillard the same trial and it was a very very very hard well to which I think a lot of US appreciated appreciated watching it but I'm the released some of which is data from the Welton actually was harder than the tour last year harder than Jiro this here for him so it clearly affected him in the time trial and it might have similar similar fight than other guys who finished the cycling podcast because team Cobb back in the pack please that was the voice of PK race radio. The Tour de France Jasmine here replace riches hip it. Was this man remove my leg a few years ago you put it on the reattach that he reattached it okay because finished in from may today anyway. This episode is sponsored by Harry's razors. Harry's have a special offer for cycling podcast listeners and they're offering a trial set for three three pounds ninety five. Well we have to do is go to Harrys dot com slash cycling. That's Harrys dot com slash cycling and you'll get the everything you need for a close comfortable shave the weighted. ERGONOMIC handle five precision engineered blades with a lubricating strip rich lathering shave gel and a travel blade cover and Nasio from my so too scruffy unshaven demeanor. I'm not highly stranger to Harry's razors you. You're ready to use a rich solent raises on A. I'm not thinking sales because I have a trial set here. This is the trial set you would get in the post on. I'm going to give it to 'em the other very helpful person today. Who gave me Charlie here identify yourself you were riding. A bike has a rental bike. Does he have a huge beard. No was it Rohan Dennis. No I could see I could see the try to turn where are you. Are you hear someone pretends to be him. Somebody likes razors. This is still on the course actually aw Dairo puncture okay. You've got very you'll be like you're a regular shaver. You can take advantage of this. Thank you very much. Thank you enjoy your Harry's razor set and you can get started shaving with Harry's today by claiming your trial set for three pounds ninety-five by going to Harrys dot com slash cycling before we carry on. I'M GONNA actually ask Jenny from the brewery to come up and tell us a little bit in this place and about this event came about so want any making your way to the stage it was it was a great event. Wasn't it Lionel and you know we were talking about. The the length of the race on Sunday and hire the distance might affect people's lives. I think we can all kind of relate to that. Having struggled struggled up the climb to the finish seventy four kilometers here it does feel like one hundred kilometers elsewhere fair comment home and I the neutralizer on Sunday. This isn't it isn't it. The longest efforts about eighteen kilometers takes the overall distance over three hundred so we've been joined up on stage by Jenny from the Brewery Hi Jenny. Tell us about this place please because it's wonderful in the middle of nowhere up a hill. They know that it's up a hill and it's well. We're in a marquee which looks like it is fitted for weddings and there's a barn store. We've just eaten some lovely foods on. It's a great on the beers very nice as well well. That's always a good thing so this is the wall Tilbury we of a foam based brewery. It's green glass so we grow moulting. Bali Redan grow our speakers Yorkshire. Climate isn't very conducive to good hop growing. Even though we've tried right quite hard in the past is being around since two thousand and three a family business my dad set up with my mom back nearly two thousand my sister and I have worked here since teenagers. She's continue to ATCO the hallway. Three is a message on to London and now I'm back again working here as well so it's a family business and you make contact with us a while ago at this time last year it was listening to you and all the talk I think he had welts welts looking forward to the world podcast and I've been listening to on the car and weren't even thinking how do we manage to make the brewery have something to do with the world's because we're a little but far away from Harrogate as I'm sure if you've natives from driving here today because Yorkshire isn't quite big. I think people forget. This is a pretty big place. It's we're about an hour and a Hof from harrogate so we're trying to work out how do we how do we do something connected to that. Brewery were brilliant to cycling. We sponsor local race team. We have a sports heave that runs from here every year. Say Dave who heads up the Lakers team. He's hit wearing his kit. Very proudly wall topped the edge just just to give a shoutout to them and I'm as a family. Were really into cycling as well so it was trying to work out. How do we manage to do something that can can kind of help us but also be interested in the world's and actually the puck seemed to really make sense say we yeah we gut and he suggested a ride which were worked perfectly exactly yeah we'd been sort of talking on relied on organizing some some kind of event ride. This seemed like the perfect solution here. We are being the perfect solution I mean. What what more do you want? Bike riding and beer go perfectly together as far as I can as far as I can say yeah well. I know it's been a great day. Yeah I mean it's been it has been quite challenging for me because I'm going to be doing a lot of cycling this year and it was a relief to get round a shoutout for Andy McKee of of course and Jimmy mccullum who McCallum poor thrown commentary is always call Jamie mccullum Scottish pronunciation McCallum give run station police here James a former professional Ryder Cup games bronze medalist at six national so creek champion as well a couple of times and well they plotted. I thought a great route I mean I was really surprised by how quiet it was out there and the quality of the road was great competitive cycling so yeah or all in all. We got lucky with the weather. Didn't we given what could have been so thank you very much. Jenny on your queen. In the mountains is safe up here I think of the tax it great but we do uh-huh actually private road to comes up here from these jobs as he didn't someone someone of the guys very few them right eh down as a couple of them setup while we're talking about the kingdom mountains up here is a is a sticky climb up here isn't it but some of your own on extrava and we were able to check the times and so we have a tie for first of the men which is unfortunate because we've only the go-to prizes. What are they go into again now a great idea but I mean that's tough tough deceptively tough climate am and it was the fastest up there was. I mean just the recall Richard Moore actually was the quickest of their well done me. No there were two minutes. I don't know how we're going to decide this this can we can we source third prize giving them all away nine. Oh the Harry's razors and Rafeh cap what is I'm in Harrison and Danny Murray identify yourselves your Simon Sinek both the one thirty four Jayme Jayme you fast women. Can you give me your surname. Sorry and you are Irish masters champions. Right yes so so what are the project. What were the full Stacey Snider Mugs. I can step in in here and offer a third mark as we have a spam really. Do I have a span okay great well Jane. Would you like the one with the one baked biker. Lots of small bikes very certain about that. A are thank you and well one of you. We'll get we'll get. We'll get us well. Oh what jet generous. We'll get your address and we'll send you the amok okay. Thank you Jamie something. Jenny wren the Barna Event and you're offering us a second podcast some money off some of your little talk brewery beer yeah absolutely say if he gave a well taught burry so that's wold with no are in the middle walled top prairie dot E. K. go into shop. Choose anything that you want in the Code C P ten and you'll get ten percent an offer any cycling Beer Hello Valet Daniel previous world's than any favorite a world stories that you have in your locker. You've seen it all you've been through more worlds than all of us together thing we'll stories and what's been your favorite of all the ones and I think he's great. When the was I think as you said. Is the world's feels like it takes over a town. It's IT tends to get lost in big cities Madrid. It felt like it was stuck out in the suburbs even that wasn't it was kind of in the central town but people don't really pay too much attention when it's in the capsule city but bowl accounts. Harjo feels like it's really taken over now yeah Harry. You're going there tonight and it's this feels last year fell to me like the perfect size. Florence was good as well there was a real sense of history and Florence and you know all all the shops with the pictures of you know Copying Barkley in the in the windows and so on especially Bartha 'cause he's from foreign wasn't they are nearby and Innsbruck as well as your is slightly bigger city. It really did feel like the world's were the main show entitled and you couldn't avoid them I'm certainly not the case. the one slight disappointment is. I think that they've been very keen to the races all over over Yorkshire and his attorney says it is a big place and so I think the one of the things that I love about the world's the circuit race in it's a great experience for spectators authors on it and it produces a particular kind of race and racing and think here there are some races where the under twenty three manifold race towards not just to Lop Circuit and I would have liked to have seen the racing more concentrated on not circuit Francois Today about 'em well. He's hitting them. One Wilson Wilson Chonburi nineteen thousand nine. We were talking about a writer who came to prominence in Schaumburg Dmitri this will you saying that reminds me of compensation. How we've Konyshev was kind of Russian playboy sort of he was replaces lazy. Nothing buys under mission was quite lazy very talented wanted but got a reputation related care a bit of a sort of a playboy but he said to me that he loved the world's always overachieved the wells basically because he's enough to concentrate trey because he didn't really have to pay attention to the route because it was on the circuit once you've done it once he kind of figured out and you can just go to sleep until the last lap. Today's funny like some riders really thrive on on that format this sort of circuit races and to sort of to a disproportionate extent stanton. I remember the French fried I mean. He didn't win the world or even. I think he won. The French. Championship wants to V. Show was always great circuit races but not so good in more conventional race. It was best for very very very long time visuals. Yeah I mean in Canada will you. Ah I've always loved researched races and I I agree with you on that. You know for for a long time. The words were kind of criticized by did the second press because it was over one day and how can you tell guys were champion on just a one day race but as we so from the past now l. it's always a great writer win it and its format of circus raise. I mean in my opinion in the second calendar. There's not enough of them that there's only apart the pathfinder words there's only the Canadian races and it's a format it's very popular in North America and it would be really exciting and under the working on its if they had had a world tour circuits rates in the US I mean it would it would be I mean I I know that the towns in the US and organizers of the Canadian races are trained to have one there but as you say it's great for the public when you're sixteen laps and in town is a great publicity for the town and for the area for public and the kids it's great you can even move from from spot spots and see various places of it so arrogates and the way the course has been set up this is audio news perform it and as you said the way of writing different the the the breakaways dot don't exactly the same the same impact. I mean they do have but but a tactics of the of the circuit races are a little bit different an interest in as well. It's really kind of wearing out process. You know if you look at the big circuit races at the end of the of the race. It's very rare that you have a punch punch protons finishing. This is usually either either. A couple of guys have gone are a very small group of Writers finishing up which proves how demanding the is is former is special very long distance so yeah great races arrogance seems to me from what I've seen of the course to fit the format ideally so we should have really really exciting race on Sunday just on circuit racist suiting some writers and not others. It's it's also a psychological test because there are multiple opportunities. It's just put down in the zone or at the finish line a world championship level anecdote this but do remember the Linda McCartney team road race through brutally about twenty years ago and I sat in the team briefing which was being given by the Sean Bingham by shown sports director and Matt Tailing worth which kind of just looking at the profile on the sort of powerpoint or whatever equipment it was back in those days and you could tell from his body language wasn't relishing hanging much and we come in from there to there and then there's fourteen laps and said our love race is like this fourteen times Pasta Hotel hotel well. That's exactly in Quebec. It was even worse because the the writers are all accommodated at the shuttle from nine which is probably the best the most prestigious hotel in North America and that the circuit goes absolutely across the hotel meaning that you didn't really you so many very often a writer you know lap twelve to thirteen goes trade back to his room in on his bike so so I mean yeah that's that's part of the charm I but the other part of the charm of it if you if you don't lie the slight little bump that's all right in the first couple of laps then you've got fourteen more of those coming so there you are cycling podcast is supported by Science in sport scientists sport fueled by science. Thank you very much indeed to scientists sport for support things cycling podcast. You can get twenty five percent off at scientists dot com with the code very well done. SIS EP twenty five at scientists sport. They'll come law. Scientists for Bronx consumed today everyone Tom can you kind of cheer that sound effect so the other race that we can the men's under twenty three championships tomorrow night while fishing six thirty nine and with to finish circuit cricket the women's junior race in the morning not GonNa ask you all for your tips for the women's junior race to worry but the the women's race on Saturday Francois any any predictions we covered. This has femina earlier this week. Of course we want to of course you did and it's a good opportunity to remind our listeners to know everything. You need to know about Saturday's race you know go for second book. US Feminine. I had a question I don't have any certainty but we we have lots of this fought before the women's ti-time trying that they'll be another Dutch sweep of medals and it. It looks like we might might be the same but it didn't happen so the question is can can we avoid a Dutch sweep of medals in the men's and women's rights on Saturday. You guys well. The big question with the team is are there too many chiefs and not enough Indians because they've got just about every writer in in in their team could win the race potentially ace amazing. They seem to avoid. I mean correct me. If I'm wrong hasn't been any any world so even European championships over the last few years of being they've really full now. You know I mean for a nation. The Dutch there was timing football for example in the Dutch were obscene notorious for having a strong presence in the dressing room never being get on. It's quite amazing that they seem to be able to marry a lot of these interests entrusts last year. There was a lot of chatter before the road race about who would be the leader Aung Gluten or Vander branch because the course was so hard. I'm not Su- both of them kind of equally on that was resolved by enemy in crashing and injuring her knee she I mean she she hurt any very bothering still think vish seventh day bound bragging one shops demolish the field and one on her own crazy so the question didn't really rise him but that was a big question last year and it could be a question again this year and the the opportunity could be there for one of these other writers because the other favorites remark every every single Dutch writer so a group could go clear with an amy peters or demi volunteering or somebody about marrying a vase is probably the favorite of all of them I and especially if it's if it's a small group and it's funny because you know founder Bragan van Velzen vaasie alright for different confessional teams they all wanted to win it but they would all have to win it in quite different ways and so the plays I is. It's quite interesting because obviously if found brain gets away then the team aren't going to chase her. Do you know anything rich about the conventions. You know we know in the men's magazine. Unseen particularly certain nations talent for example have a well drilled as a time on it protocal of the Federation puts up a bonus. Um The the trade teams put it bonuses on its conversation on the eve of the race. Every year with the Senate used to be about how the money is going to be. Shed out and yeah. That's that's sort of enshrined in in the way the world championships works as far as the men's teams are concerned but what's it like in. I remember again. We talked about this last year and there was some in innsbruck in the build up thorough disres- talk about contacts you remember it'd be worth asking that question but they're not always transparent him but not are they. How do they made they give writers bonuses for the world's but it'd be worth asking that question. Whether that's a factor I I suspect that it probably is ultimately unlimited this earlier winning the world title. It was going to be worth a lot more than ever bonus you get from your federation sure do think various massively from nation-to-nation companies one in two thousand eleven in Copenhagen. There wasn't any bonus from the British from MHM with Partic- he's talking and he had made arrangements privately with with teammates about what we we infamously. He is a second hand car dealer in the in the months that followed the world's we well. We still couldn't cover motors because he was just distributino. Pitino Emma Porsche ran out to the whole team got out of it pretty well. Steve it coming scorecard. Jess Jeremy Hunger car anyway we can go to Bradtha AH coming light coming from trump but the as I say in the in the Italian team it's always been a quite almost tradition and they meeting always takes place on the night before the world's where they will sit and it's often be very very contentious contentious but the Italians are often the team that where that that that question is foreignness isn't it because they seem to have the most the problems working together as a team. I mean they've got lots of other writers from other nationalities working for them as well but it seems I mean. I don't know if it's par Italian. I wanted wanted to be a big issue. In Italy where the dominant nation in the world I mean up until a few years ago teams could have the most powerful countries she's would have twelve riders. I think twelve or maybe thirteen if you have the defending champion and five in the cases but generally the strongest nation I mean I would still be very intrigued to know what's happening on that school in the Belgian team for example particularly when you got the the entrusted Lauter Dahl and declining to big Belgian teams represented in the team event last night where we were talking about the the strength again in a bit similar scenario to the women's road race. We've got one really team really strong than all the other teams and I the Belgian team this year. Is that team in the men's race but in the team you've got Matthew Vander Pol as the obvious can a leader but does not mean necessarily the AH the traders are going to work for him and help him does he does. He need that because he's not an awful lot of team support and all his major major wins so far what happens with French Francois women or just yeah I mean there are stories in in the frame from the French team is wild about this kind of thing on the SCO Doug. Oh yeah tree and I mean the the the system you described about you know deciding. WHO's the leader. I and you know I mean in the men's team this season. There is no doubt whatsoever deliver it was it was a problem last last year you now when Giuliani actually realize in the middle of the afterwards that he was not in great shape and Pinot at work very hard for him and you know in Eddie known before for hand was on a bad day might have read any differently and finally body was second so which proves that you know the plans that you can make before to raise especially on once again with such long courses and different again forms of racing seen from the ones. They're used to the during the year make things a little bit different. It'll be very interesting to see the Belgians ride this year. Because of exactly what Oh you said oh who's going to be in the best shape was who's going to sacrifice himself and go in in the leading group because they always do in the first half of the race as always a major sure container in the break. I mean that's in the French in a French. Come this year. I mean the undisputed leader. The team has been built around around him. He gets to decline quickstep teammates. Indo team in a specially dedicated to help him out so I mean is the only option there's no other options so so what about the cash that I think that in I mean tell me what is the new team captains for France when when you've got what's leader like Philippi it's been decided from the start and the actually the team has been entirely built around him like you have to teammates of decorate creeks of these has gone up short in the first half these guys to protect you and this guy to go into break. Every every body has got designated roles so it's exactly the the same setup as in in the world tour team. You know you of course actually if you win will get the most money but the rest of the interest of the positions. I I just know kind of competition for the number one job. I think they're all the same bonus. I hope Vaucluse not doing the tactics for. La Eh then we'll see elephant riding last for the first hundred kilometers and then launching a stupid solo attack one hundred fifty to go well. It might the tongue out who knows he might be the way to the Belgians knows very very speculation. Heavy this podcast we should we should wrap things up. We're GONNA end the podcast but then take questions from you guys so to wrap things up there. Thank you very much lionel. Thank you Richard. Thank you Daniel. Thank you Francois. Thanks and thank you everyone. You've been listening to the cycling clean podcast subscribe to our news at the second podcast dot com to get all the latest news unspecified office delivered straight to your inbox. This episode was edited and produced by Wally.

writer Francois Lionel Lsu Martinelli Daniel Harry Jenny wren Richard Moore Harrogate US Italy Yorkshire Rafeh Yorkshire Collection Innsbruck North Yorkshire Madrid Canada Yorkshire UCI Klis Quinn Simmons
Episode 3: The Wendy Sewell Murder  The Yorkshire Ripper

True Crime Investigators UK

00:00 sec | 6 months ago

Episode 3: The Wendy Sewell Murder The Yorkshire Ripper

"Radio Presents Peter William Sutcliffe. The jewelry found you guilty of thirteen charges of murder. If I may say so. Modo of a very calorie nature for each was a woman. It was a murder by getting behind her and beating her on the head with a hammer from behind. It is difficult to find the words that are adequate in my judgment to describe the brutality on gravity for these offenses and I say at once. I am not going to pause to seek those words. I am prepared to let the catalog crimes speak for itself. He went on to say. I have no doubts that you are a very dangerous man. Indeed the sentence for murder is laid down by the law and this immutable. It is a sentence that you be imprisoned for life. I shall recommend to the home secretary that the minimum period that should elapse before he all. Your release on licence shall be thirty years. That is a longer period an unusually longer period in my judgment. But I believe you already usually dangerous man. I express my hope that I have said life imprisonment. It will precisely mean that Mr Justice Boreham number one colts central criminal courts. The Old Bailey. London made the twenty-first Nine Thousand Nine Hundred Zero devoting podcasts brought to you by true trauma investigators. Uk. But who are they? John was a police officer for thirty years working locally and nationally as a detective sully we'll go so a police officer for twelve years and then retrained as a lawyer and practicing criminal law school now they are both retired and review cases of interest some soul some undetected throughout the series. They will discuss the cases. They are reviewing an interview. Relevant parties including police officers suspects witnesses index sports. They are currently looking into the motor in nineteen seventy-three you Wendy soon in bagels symmetry and asking who could have committed the murder following the overturning of the conviction of Stephen Downing in two thousand and two so in the last episode. We talked about the conviction of Stephen Downing in nineteen seventy four but in two thousand and two is conviction was quashed. So what was the police reaction to the question of that conviction? The reaction had was that will face with the Problem or dilemma. Depending relocated at it that the murder took place in nineteen seventy-three the conviction was quashed in two thousand and two so some twenty nine years after the original police inquiry left them with the question. If it wasn't Stephen Downing who was it. And how do we reinvestigate an established? What the facts are twenty nine years later. Quite a bit problematic time for any police force to investigate. Yeah it's really difficult investigation for any police force. Its quite daunting him. Fight because when you look at the police officers no doubt that all the police officers that were on the original inquiry would no longer have been serving and as far as they witnesses that concerned the witnesses could have moved on they could have married and changed their names that could have died or just suffering from failing memory so lots of inherent difficulties in this kind of reinvestigation and that presents. Big Problems yes. The inquiry was held with Don Hale's book the town without pity which was published in two thousand and two. After Stephen Downing's conviction was quashed. I've no doubt that Don Hale's book helped the police with their enquiries. He's for many years researched and collected information which no doubt Operation Noble took note of along with any other information that came their way from members of the public. All appeals to the public in the media and combine the two the reinvestigated the murder from nineteen seventy-three onwards did clearly spoken to several people that Don Hale are on earth in his inquiries and concluded that they had no further people to interview at that time so I assume it was a fairly intensive reinvestigation and no doubt there were press releases and to elicit a public response and also people many years later may feel like they could come forward may feel that they were more as by coming to talk to the police but yeah. The conclusion was the operation. Noble as you said wasn't looking for anybody else and therefore the case was closed so the question remains who killed Wendy soul and I suppose the first option would be Stephen. Damn in the certainly people in the locality that believe that still believe that he was responsible. And that's despite having his conviction quashed the second option is Don Hale believes that the answer lies within the Bakewell Area Wendy's believed to have a number of relationships or friendships with men indeed. We know that she had a child with one of them. An although Don Hale doesn't name any suspect or come to any specific conclusion. The inference is that either by arrangement or by. Chan's one of those men met with Wendy in the in the cemetery on the twelfth of September and for reasons unknown. Wendy was attacked. Yes that's right. Don's House Conclusions. Leave quite a wide parameter. Don't they really into who was responsible? Basically his conclusions were that because of relationships and living in the bay area that no doubt that was a airy where he thought the offender lay. Yes I think he thought it was. It was a close to home attack. So the third option then it was a random attack and inconsideration that option. We take into account the the book that we've both read by Chris. Clock and Tim. Tate and titled Yorkshire Ripper the Secret Murders. What we know about Chris? Clark intimidate well. Tim Dates an investigative journalist. And Chris Clark is a retired police intelligence officer and their balk. It was very well research and considers the possibility the pizza so cliff. Who's also known as the Yorkshire ripper may have many more victims than those already acknowledged? Yes and Chris. Clark would have the background when he was a police officer. His role was that of intelligence officer which entailed researching and gathering the facts concerning crimes throughout the country rarely in particular he would link crimes outside his own force area because as we know. Criminals travel extensively. The don't obey the police boundaries and council boundaries they go throughout the country and therefore one of his roles will be Lincoln and research in anything that he could find on serious crime to Apprehend the offenders on his retirement therefore he would have continued doing that which is my understanding. How his books come to be about which again uses his skills when he was a police officer so jam where both well-versed in the the life and crimes of Peter saw cliff but for the benefit of our listeners. I think we'll give some kind of brief explanation to To put Peter's Uplift the Yorkshire print context yes PREDISPO- cliff was born in one thousand nine hundred forty six in West Yorkshire in the north of England. He Left School fifteen years of age and worked in semi skilled jobs in his early life. Grave dig in worked in factories and then later trained as a heavy goods vehicle driver between nineteen seventy five and ninety eight to their total of thirty murders and seven attempted murders in the West Yorkshire Manchester Areas. Their attacks on loan females sunbeam prostitutes and some note during the time of the attacks those murders and attacks on loan females. The attacks became known as they work of the Yorkshire ripper and after Peter saw cliffs arrest in January. One thousand nine hundred eighty one. He subsequently admitted that he was the Yorkshire ripper and responsible for those attacks. So why did Peter sutcliffe evade capture for so long? We'll take yourself back to the time of the murders. The technology was nothing like we basically take for granted today. We had no mobile phones. No Computers No. Cctv of the standards. We have today when a serious incident occurred. An incident room would have been established in the details at that time because of the lack of the technology we have would have been hanwritten filed on cards folders of paper which takes a long time in quite clearly is open to them being mixed open lost. So when you've got a number of incident resumes Brunen all at the same time as you had him in West Yorkshire at that time. The potential for cross-referencing was at best limited or non-existent yes an also there was no DNA that we have today clearly. That's made a fantastic difference to the detection of crime because it's unique to the individual today we rely on. Dna is a unique fingerprint of the person who committed the crime that wasn't available at that time now so they were really on on an uphill struggle to deal with such a lot of attack so many attacks in a short space of time. Yes each murder. As we've mentioned that incident room probably anything from fifty hundred. Plus police officers will be involved all given what we call actions which is sort of an instruction to go and make an inquiry trace somebody or a vehicle all that information will be fed back with so many murders taking place in that area. West Yorkshire. Police I mean one of the reasons was just overwhelmed with the amount of work which resulted in mix ops mistakes and once mistakes are made the very difficult to rectify. When you're overwhelmed with work. I joined the police in one thousand nine hundred ninety two and within the next two or three years. I was trained on the new computer system that was known as homes. That was their Home Office. Large major enquiry system and that system came about as a result of the ripper inquiry as. You've already mentioned John. When there was a an incident he setup an incident room and any information coming into the incident room was a pay per recorded so those incident rooms were full of documents and full of Information. So if you got to incident rooms running at the same time it was very difficult to cross reference those card index because one card index will be in one incident room and the other card index will be in the other incident room so the homes computer came out so that wherever you were. If you got access to the homes computer system you could interrogate it. And also interrogate a number of investigations. That were running simultaneously and just dimension whether the the refrain. Quiroz in progress. They actually realized that the problem or one of the problems. The house was just completely overwhelmed by pay. Different incident rooms in different locations. This one period amalgamates have into one built in an hat to reinforce the floor because the weight of the paper was in the people who are operating. It was too much for the building. It was a huge. There was tens and tens and tens of thousands of pieces of paper and cards. No matter how go to body were. It wasn't going to work but there was no alternative at that time. Yes so they were rarely on an uphill struggle on US opposed. They're overwhelmed and presumably understaffed to deal with so many serious attacks in such a short space of time. Yes also Peter Cliff. No doubt was following the progressive the murders that we have received a lot of press and television coverage at the time and quite cunningly sought at vary his method of attack to frustrate the police really so although there were similarities in most murders there were differences to frustrate the police even further partway through the inquiry. The police started to receive whether address to the assistant. Chief Constable George Oldfield letters purporting to be from the orchard ripper. An eventually tape recordings were sent on the tapes. He was toned in the place saying that they weren't very good at the jobs and the boys will let him down and clearly on the tape. The voice that was heard was not of a West Yorkshire accent. Whatever Georgia accent? The North East of England. Recall this very well. Because in the late seventies I was a serving officer and when you went onto the CAD. You had to go on a training course. And I went to. They won which was at that time in Wakefield clearly in the West Yorkshire area where all these attacks were taking place George L. Field under their offices gave lectures to the students of which hours one way played the tape and it was clearly geordie accent and he told us that time that he believed quite firmly that the first nude written letters sent the tape was the Yorkshire Ripper as result of his conclusions and other senior officers involved from there on after two. They decided that could eliminate any suspects by the mere fact they didn't have a Geordie accent and sadly this was a a drastic mistake. Because as we know the Yorkshire ripper lived in West Yorkshire in hot a West Yorkshire accent so the latter's and I think they were three letters and one tape there were hoax and that hoax became known as wayside. Jack yes it was a many years later in the actual author of the letters and the tape was actually arrested. Wasn't it that's right. His name was John Samuel Humble and he was arrested in two thousand and five after a fragment of one of the envelopes in which one of the latter's was was mailed to West Yorkshire Police and they extracted the DNA and it was identified that the DNA was from John Samuel Humble he was subsequently arrested and charged with four cancer of perverting the course of justice and subsequently he that he had sent the letters and the tape and he was sentenced to eight years in prison. Predispo- cliff was arrested on the second of January nineteen eighty-one in the Sheffield area. He was observed by a sergeant and a young constable to be innovative medical late at night in a known prostitute area. The sergeant was school in the young copper in the ways of police in and they just happened to pass by this vehicle was suspicious and checks on. It decided that the vehicle possibly was stolen which resulted N. P. to soak cliff being arrested and detained at that time and subsequently the inquiry developed any was found out to be the auction ripper which resulted in his appearance at court. So what's actually happened to? Were Peter Sutcliffe. In one thousand nine hundred one well. He was sent for trial. He pleaded not guilty to thirty murders and seven attempt murders and that was on the grounds of diminished responsibility. In Layman's terms. That means that it was suffering from an abnormality of Mental Fulton. Shinhan in other words didn't really know what it was doing The jewelry weren't convinced by that defense to these heinous crimes and they found him guilty. He was subsequently sentenced to twenty life sentences that was made into a whole life order back in twenty ten and that basically means life means life and he remains in prison today so in this episode where only rarely looking at p. two so cliff in relation to the Wendy Sewell Murder. But just on that broad brush of his offenses. I think there are other episodes which we could do in relation to P to so cliff and the his life crimes. Yes I think the Yorkshire Ripper. Inquiry with cliff is is massive. I mean five years. Thirty murders seven attempted murders and as we have learned. This probably many more crimes. He hasn't been convicted of. I think we in the future. We ought to have a look at this and compiling investigational of our own. Do you think I think it certainly it. Certainly worthy of some indepth revere but for this purpose of our Podcast today we're going to look at the suspected connection of the orchestra with Wendy Sewell. Aren't we saw and to that end? Who Do we need to talk to? I think I don't know Chris Clark and Tim Tate. Maximum enquiries and safe we can Have talked to them. And if they will help us with our investigations into the Wendy soul murder and see where we go on Thanks for joining US Chris. Before we begin. Just tell us a bit about your yourself and your background. Of course FOCI Rachad intelligence offset eye shows. North can stop wait between March nineteen sixty six added. Bogus nineteen ninety foal. So do you think that pizza so cliff is responsible for more than they thirteen? Murders and seven attend murders for which he was convicted. I yes I believe that south of Israel responsible for many bowl modus at attacks consumption the assistant chief constable of the day off the shockers arrest shit a number of tax zone women since nineteen sixty six in. West Yorkshire remained undetected struck of has now been into about this analysis which elsewhere in the country but has denied responsibility. Kelly's Wendy Sewell one of that number. Yes that's a great. That's molly observation. So Chris where did he were? What Kinda job steady have? What was he engaged in? A not in foal a book bigly secretary as a grave digger. He was also voted talk. Said titian assistant it in the top of rest is judge Russo What's took place connection to make will in that area of no thumb around the move. Wendish motor chocolate had originally worked for bench television and they often go on the road salesman so he left April nineteen seventy three and then they got a job doing permanent night shift. At the time you will savannah nsen international as offensive also during nineteen three take sucked system boring married chocolates friend. Robin Holland for eighth late suffer engineers on they moved to Duxford amateur admired coaches boating. Had A a young Dole to a sucker doted on on he this the Education Code so they would travel from bigly all the down the end one and then crossover the one to see the old down to the unwelcome. I'm on the cross country so the the time we're Nineteen seventy-three regular visit to the family and travel near enough to malls from from home to that address bike. Well actually situated about ninety miles off the moment he's roundabout. There's also information that sucker visited the grunt video matlock bath so coming. Western woke concerts the that situated just ten miles south bike ball moving on grace. What makes you think that Peterson cliff was responsible for the attack on Wednesday around? Twelve hundred on Temptation three when he left her also seen by quill at shriveled. A note left it with a bus about just before she left. The building have offered a token to unknown mandated. Office is with a an abrupt high-pitched voice now picked such of has such a voice and to the savant is mentioned the to jump it was attached to drive intact by him in nineteen sixty seven and another confirmed victim. Tracey Brown admitted attacking shows not Five they both remarked about Tucker having been shifted hog pitched voice. And I understand Chris. You secured a copy of the pathologist's report by Professor Illinois Shia. What did you make of? It have faded Full of on a nineteen seventy Moda. Obvious should looking through out. Industrious revolts specifically looking for signs of Which supposedly I found. It was quite clear today that before. Wendy was type with pickaxe handle spending on the chat from behind with a knotted rope which is linked over a neck which went taunton fashioned in a totally tightening would cost to fix you. to stumble through bucket consciousness days. Which is evidence from the Since when he actually has stunning on trousers She was dressed Thompson. Let us initiate on then having stumbled to these subject to a Frenchie. Tuck what she smashed on the back of the head of the Pixel sample at times as what is being kate Wendy was originally attack. All the football in the cemetery of Woodside close to the pumps credit chapel. Whether the Chambal bloodstain splintered was found among with Lobstein garments which proved that she fully dressed attacked on the undress false of cultures when he was actually strict in the mandate of many Lights Yorkshire ripper types in apprentice on believed to they stopped with True Java and all Nice. The pencils have been removed trousers. Thoughts were remote obliged to the bronx than visited up these real classic methods. Should the light river types just to like to and believed that the defense of clothing was in preparation for attack it to continued slashing at the Abdomen the trousers set was sold. That these those Sosa blood insult the hills of the pencils as well as class from Lebron's shading. I believe that's the point where as Steven down to return to the cemetery from his right at whilst stayed winch southern help that was the second time that Wendy's body was attacked. By if dom at Lake Face stem some twenty five feet away from her addition town and hidden in amongst the all the grave stones squat evidence in great shape budged agencies. Photographs manufactures light from abroad. Brawlers founded the gross away from the initial talk. So it's quite clear. She was dragged from that proposition. Patent stumbled it in the ripple confirmed you'll va within Allen. Oh Shas revolt Tra- full of people when he studied that Wendy's larynx. He said that that was messes as she motions in the membrane below the level of the false focal colds Maine's a massive brews in the era of the Adam's apple which I believe was close by this knotted garage which went over the apple on then he goes on to say in the civil neck muscles some bruising of the date Sabbatical Muscles and it leads to expression by switching on the muscles surrounding. The back of the neck of this would be expected when you're having lived over the neck applying Twist so you have to pressure. Corn's one only a Jackal. And then on one on the back of the neck was totally k. Was twisted that was what I should fout. Goes on to say that Page five the hat trick. Eight and emphasis. They would congested with numerous fetish. Eight and laid up manged. The hostages were congested with wealthy. Lucas of pressure. This is characteristic funding of fixation results. From hemorrhage hit the end of the confederation's Rhesus Blood is pumped through debt shelves. Then followed Lee. Goes onto site up to examine the sections of the show sank. Congestion advices added that the package will full of Lucas up the pressure so the realized that time that in addition to the other injuries that Wendy had been fixated a foot pole and then never made any reference to on. Dole was presented evidence at savings. Such tron was nineteen. Seventy four zero such to chase. The Aussie said just to clarify Chris. What you're saying is that the pathologist may comment on the injuries but there was no conclusion as to what caused them exactly just locked him to Wendy's atop the Senate is never mentioned any stage now thereafter a operation noble which is the fully agree investigation kites whoever reinvestigated the case rich double should have would have read the full dumpsters. Roll that say the verbs am I right in saying when Steve Initially found Wendy she was lying by the grave of Antony Neyla and when he returned with help she'd been moved in a way you describe says she was now near to the grave of Sarah Bradberry just at the football said there is a trial from the initial attack. Saying I'll across the girls at one of the older gripe surrounds to the position that you've just mentioned in. The May trauma believed the pope tried to let the air involved the cops would reseda football clutched to initial Thompson. So Chris what you're saying is that if is responsible by the nature of the attack the type of injuries and the removal of a clothing. Yes if you look at its Many of them ancient element on to visit. Tuck the only thing different. When he's coach is that at pickups handle was used instead of a bowl pay or warring hammer which that is on a couple of occasions and Additionally to the evidence found garage Chuck a used enough events rope obvious loss to victims in one thousand nine hundred as well as the Hammer. He also picked up some of the victims a also evidence. Today that had been used in a number of lewd committed testable in nineteen seventy nineteen seventy full which show. There's strong suspicion at convicted. Chris Handyman Stephen Damning authentic. It was two thousand thirteen. I am a copy of John's book and having read it actually soul the RIPA. In in that case the only problem was I have better than the motive but have the opportunity and it wasn't until entering the I was able to establish that chocolate travel through the midland's as mentioned on. Don't add to London so it was that point. I decided to Contact with the with Stephen Initially might come up with with with NATO. His mum up Kristie because at the time state was very solid people's motives folk while she'd way Tensions movie fully trust gave me what ever insulation have. Which is the largest report Chris has been to repose into pizza cliffs offending the Byford Ripple and the Samson ripple? What do you make those two reports attracted the from the outset? That chef was a shipper. Abe is the United Kingdom Ripa on the real the many more ventures that eight committed from nineteen sixty nine till the straw with Five was detected ten in nineteen. Ninety-two was affordable Colin Sampson to investigate. What other action does suck as it committed both in West show and threw out the United Kingdom say believe it was wrong to call him the OT wreck Arauco so that Table outside of West Yorkshire at the to Manchester. When we go about Tom Dot faring up to this guy was going to be behind the attack the most say unaccompanied showed this while he was able from nineteen seventy to commit many more benches throughout the country. The methods above what? We're coming to the end of our time chatting together and I'd like to say a thank you on behalf of both of us for you helping his APP today in conclusion could say that you believe that Peter so cliffs offending is not reflected in the convictions which he remains in prison. And I think that's the conclusion you come to in your book. The yoke she went to the secret manages yes totally unidentified buddy more atop many motors genuinely believe that took place. Defendant is far more widespread the most cassette throughout the United Kingdom. I can place. You've been shopping. The Myth Westcountry London Hong Cottage. So you are the opinion. That cliff noted did Wendy seal. There's every element of the shutters defending within web site right down in an everyday tale a off from the tax bill supplemented for Heaven It was really interesting speaking Chris Clark. It comes to certain conclusions concern in his views on pizza so cliff and Wendy. Sewell doesn't he. It does so. Let's consider what he's told us and let's think about those issues. Can we put paid to so cliff in Bakool on the twelfth of September? Let's consider that I as far as I'm aware we can't. We can't definitely say that he was in Bakewell at that time but what we do now is the traveled extensively. Andy was certainly believed to be a visitor to the pavilion in Matlock. Bath which is a nearby town so not a stranger to the area. We've nothing specifically that we can find that says the unlock dates of Wendy's attack and subsequent murder. Peter so cliff was inveigle coming now. We can't so let's consider some of the other issues and early to Sixty S. He was a grave digger in the West Yorkshire. Ira and also I worked a motivations assistant and reading several books on. It clearly has a macabre interest in graveyards and that people which is commented on by numerous people. I've read so again. We've got the Visited all the murder took place a graveyard. Yeah the next thing is is Peter sutcliffe. Known to attack loan females were the reign of terror that the ripper. 'cause between nineteen seventy five and nine thousand nine hundred eighty all. The attacks were on females. Many of the loan females other working as prostitutes or just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time when he sold them and stole them. Some were young people. Professional people weren't all prostitutes but they were all loan females at the point of attack similar to Wendy Sewell. Who was as far as what away? I was alone in the graveyard on the day in question. Yeah that's right. And does the method of attack on his name victims bear any resemblance to the way in which Wendy was attacked. The talks on all the Yorkshire ripper victims primarily were attacks with a hammer abol pain hammer all similar hammer which rendered the victim on conscious or even cause of death on some occasions thereafter. He attacked them. Further by removing clothing. Expos in the body and stabbing them kick them on. Occasions is used a ligature to incapacitate them. I Yeah I think it's really interesting. That that documented. There's A. There's an incident going back to To the nineteen sixties. It was out one night with his friend. Trevor Birdsall in a car. Peter so cliff got out of the car folded alone female. I think she was believed to be a prostitute and he attacked her from behind and his weapon of choice on that occasion was a rock in a sock and then return to Trevor Birth. So who was waiting in the car? And he told travel. But don't and the second thing of interest as in the sixties again. He was convicted of going equipped to stale because he was arrested in possession of a hammer yes as well as the method of attack which again is similar to Wendy soules. Although the auction ripper didn't use a pickaxe handles. We've mentioned it was normally a hammer. One of the other characteristics was after the initial attack. He disturbed the clothing. And as Chris Clark's this is remarkably similar. In Wendy Souls case to the Yorkshire ripper the way stripped the body pulled the bar opened. Expos the breasts and this was a prelude to continuing the attack by stabbing them. Oh slashing them with a knife we can only surmise that before committing. Not Sort of attack. It was disturbed if it was him in the graveyard on that day. Because as far as we're aware there was no cotton slash wounds to Wendy's body was the now. I think you're right in saying that that he was disturbed. And is the person new disturbed in was that Stephen Downing but when Steven went for help then Wendy still was revisited by her attacker and dragged to. If you believe what? Chris Clark's conclusions that she was then dragged to elsewhere in the In the graveyard so also taken into consideration. What Chris Clock said about Wendy's attack and that he believes that she was Attack from behind but had ligature puts around her throat initially which would then bring to unease. It's interesting that in nineteen eighty one. When Peter so cliff was arrested he had a length of rope with him and that had to not in an potentially ligature forum them to use on his future victims. Yes the interest in comparison that Chris Clock makes that he believes that some kinds of strangulation took place on Wendy as is described in the damage to a throat. Although of course the main thrust of the pathology report is that she was stroke viciously with a with a pickaxe handle. But the Aussie ripper in eighty-one was found to have a piece of wrote with two nuts in it which was clearly ligature and also to the offenses of murder that he was convicted of the victims had been strangled. With what the pathologist describes as a ligature that's right that was the two of the former is that took place in in one thousand nine hundred forty and that was just before he was arrested of course. In the beginning of eighty-one after pizza so cliff was convicted of thirty murders and seven attempt murders and was sentenced to life imprisonment to reports were published. Chris mentioned them in the interview. He's given the Byford report and the Simpson report. Some some was subsequently chief constable of West Yorkshire Police and Lawrence by was as we mentioned a Majesty's Inspector of Constabulary both reports conclude that Peter so cliff was far more involved in attacks and murders prior to what we know as the auction ripper inquiry. Yes Sir Lawrence. Byford says in his report that between nineteen sixty nine and the start of a known ripper crimes in one thousand nine hundred seventy five. There is a curious no next plane lull in stock lifts activities. Hey says there is the possibility he carried out other attacks on prostitutes and unaccompanied women during that period so that's a fairly startling conclusion to come to the salon spifer accepts his offending was far more widespread. Yes the inquiries that have gone on over the years since these two reports clearly a concluded that as Chris mentioned that the offending went on long before the seventy five to eight period which encompasses the time when the attack on. Wendy's took place. That's absolutely right. Yeah Keith Hellawell. Who was a detective? Superintendent in West Yorkshire and later was Chief Constable of West Yorkshire. He was tasks through the nineteen eighties and the early nineties have gone to visit peace to Sauk cliff and the point of going for those visit was to ask him about further the potential attacks for which may be responsible. Joe In those meetings with Kate. Hallo pizza sought cliff eventually admitted to more offenses. The first one being Tracey Brown in one thousand nine hundred seventy five and the second one was an rune in nineteen seventy nine. Both of those victims. survived no charges were ever bought but soon after Peterson cliff. Refused to see Keith. Hellawell anymore and those visits had to stop. You just mentioned that Keith. Halliwell actually obtain to admissions from Peter saw cliff about further offenses that he had been convicted with in itself isn't unusual that no further action was taken and he hasn't actually appeared charged with those offenses before court has now that's right. It was serving twenty concurrent life sentences already and no additional charges were laid in relation to the Tracey Brown and Rooney incidents. In two thousand and ten it was given a whole life order that basically means life is life and so he. He's going to remain in prison for the rest of his is natural so the decision was made not to put any further charges to him. What do we think that the reason behind the fact that he wasn't charged although as we've just said it's not unusual? But what would the reason anything? I think those kind of cases where it's apparent that they defendant is going to spend the rest of his time imprison. The reason that those charges aren't laid and additional convictions. Attracted as I suppose may very well come down to one of cost. It's quite expensive to take person to call. And if he pleaded not guilty that would lead to a trial so I can see from that point of view. Why wouldn't put those extra charges but in doing that? That doesn't really leave any form of justice for those two victims Tracy Brandon an Rooney because although pages oak cliff as admitted that was responsible for their tax there is no conviction that would uphold that yes. An in reality cliff will never come out of prison so. I suppose the the reason is that we can't prevent him from attacking anybody at for the because he isn't GonNa to be released so as you say money on. Costco does come into it. In fact that was years after the event. Isn't it. Yeah I think it's also you know. What do you achieve? But I suppose the answer to that. Is You achieve justice for the year for the victims? Chris Clock has compiled a list in his book of attacks. The T. suspects Peter. So cliff is responsible for key Halliwell also compiled a list which is very similar decreases. Although this hasn't been made fully available to the public would you when diesel would have appeared on that list? She wouldn't have paid on that list. Because at the time that Keith Hellawell was compiled in his list. That was in the early nineties and Stephen Downing was still imprison convicted of Wendy's murder therefore it wouldn't pay it as an undetected murder. The ones that Keith. Hellawell were looking at were attacks on loan females where no one's been arrested and or convicted of that attack so no it wouldn't have appeared on that list. Joensuu. Hey we all back in faecal graveyard. That's where we spoke to Stephen and the I have got to make. This is much colder than it was last time we were here. Yes we're winter. Yeah Yeah So. What are your final thoughts about the Wendy Sewell case? I find it very bizarre case when you look at all the facts the attack in this graveyard which is open to the public market today. It's overlooked by houses. The upper windows look out to where we're still now and in fact there's one or two people in the graveyard wandering around open to the public. It's absolutely bizarre. Why anybody would attack anybody this location and at that time of day. Yes it was attack of mid day lots of people could be working or looking after the windows of the House. You just wouldn't plan an attack at this location. It must have been a spur of the moment attack for reasons. We don't fully understand and a very vicious attack. The pathologist said that Wendy was struck several times with powerful blows to the back of the head. Which would have brought it to a knees and onto the ground and then if that wasn't long enough then whoever attacked Wendy spent time. Removing CLOTHING OPRAH CLOTHING WAS REMOVED. Various other items of clothing were removed and there was two locations. The first location was near grave. So where we're still Disney Sally. Yeah this is the gravestone of Anthony Neyla and that's where Stephen says that he found Wendy Wendy returned to the graveyard. Yes and then according to Further reports when Stephen Helping return she'd actually moved some distance. The graveyard. That's right. Yeah it's about twenty five yards thirty yards away up to the grave of Sarah Bradberry. Yes so if you're looking at the overall whoever attack Wendy spent some time here in this location which I do as of satisfying very bizarre. You'd have thought if it was a an attack here you you'd make a quick attack and leave the scene as quickly as possible before anybody so yeah but that doesn't seem to be the case which defies belief really. Why anybody would do it here. It's a risky attack. His niece risky business. That's well yes I mean why here we don't know and why in this public location again. We don't know when I stand here. Nothing Quebec I do. Find it a really sad case not just for Stephen and his family but also Wendy Sewell's family and friends not only have they lost when they put they've lost her in sicher savage and brutal way. Yes and Chris. Clark's firmly believes that. The ripper pizza SUTCLIFFE cannot be ruled out of this attack bearing in mind the method of the attack the way he to attack victims female victims alone. Removing the clothing are very similar. Monitor this yeah. The similarities are striking. Inquest genuinely believes that. This is the scene of a report tack is now many years since Stephen was released. And there's been no alternative resolution fall the Suo family and sadly that does happen not just in this case. But but my neil this with both worked on medications. That have been difficult to investigate. Yes the People's perceptions are that the police always catch the person responsible and as we know and we've worked on many murder cases and serious crimes where we don't catch the perpetrator for various reasons. And there's a big misconception that people get their ideas from watching. The television is having an impact on jury trials which is being investigated and research by a university because when the sun on the jury and there isn't forensic evidence that connects the perpetrator. Who's it may be in the dark. The seemed to dismissive having watched the television and detective television programs where nine times out of ten they always catch the man or woman. And that's not real life is it isn't real life and I think those kind of programs have been some kind of impact on real life trials and how jewelry thing so when we're talking about the investigation process. Well what exactly are we talking about? Let's look if Wendy Sewell murder happened today. What the police will do. The police would obviously be called by a member of the public or the ambulance service that attend and sail off the scene. The first port of call is obviously the body the forensic examination by a pathologist atlas scene and the gathering forensic evidence which you cannot replace one. She's been destroyed. Seeing the crimes offices would attendant and take all the samples and photographs which is the first process. That old serious crimes go through. Isn't it yet? You need to kill you seen as well. I don't I mean that always annoys me on television when you see that. There's a body on the floor and then there's everybody and the dog trump clean over it and picking things up and putting things down and not wearing gloves. And that's not what you actually do to crime. Seem you need to secure it. So that there's no potential for ruining of the C O cross-contamination. Yes in the day of the murder of course as we've mentioned before the there was no. Dna evidence was the no no DNA so no cross transference from a perpetrator to a victim. The next thing you've got to consider is suspect because once you've got you suspect there may tell you everything right at the start. What may be uncooperative. Or misleading or things just to throw you off. The true cost of events absolutely. I mean in thirty years of police and there's not many people tell you the truth straight to is the know your interview. Technique is absolutely crucial to elicit the information that you want. It's normally a jigsaw puzzle that you pick all the pieces up and slowly put them together and then at the end it gives you the picture and hopefully you've got the right person. You believe stunning. Yes so once. Your investigation starts to roll. It generates social of word. Doesn't it. Well we've mentioned the ripper inquiry. The auction reprint query. That lasted five years before computerization and one of the main problems was was tens and tens of thousands of pieces of paper and cards which was a mammoth task to collate and keeping order and basically it just crashed in there. Yeah that's right but as we stand here John will at least one investigation that stays in our mind and that we think about the the one that stands asked him on mind was a married man. Father of two young boys it was shot in and lay by by the side of a road in. May One thousand nine hundred ninety nine. The perpetrators of that attack were arrested in jail. And I think still today stay there in prison and I think about his wife and I think about those boys because obviously now they'll be in the thirties or forties and how all these years later. They've that code at the other. One that I think about happened earlier that was. It was nineteen eighty. Four one thousand nine hundred five or no. It was certainly during the mind strike and that guy had gone missing from work. I think they close down for Christmas and between leaving work and when he should've arrived home. Dot Com Mason and we started a big search for one of his work colleagues killed him stored his body at home before taking him to a family member's freezer in store in in the freezer. He was arrested and convicted. And and I do think that family quite a lot said there are investigations that that do stay with us and we do think about and talk about you. Joan what cases it and I think another one that you're gonNA say yes when we discuss during a crime podcast. We run through various names. Didn't we have cases and interesting cases that we could investigate them? Produce a podcast about and we did mention the Michael Prick Gerardmer which was in November nineteen eighty-nine Kurt Langley and Darbyshire. I was one of the detectives on that case was for several moments. At Michael Pritchard was a lipid drive of parcels to Dole rural villages. In Darbyshire Kirk Langley. He left his car to go and deliver parcel and left the vehicle with the engine running. While he was absent from the vehicle at somebody stole he witnessed. Somebody gets into the vehicle and tried to stop them driving off in doing so the drove over and killed him very sadly that was never detected. In fact I still keep in touch with Michael's widow. An I think that's one that we should look at in our next episode. I think should so then finally John on this rather cold and windy day in. Bake will do you think Wendy Sewell. Merger will ever be solved as we know an you know and as well as myself in respect to undetected murders. They are never forgotten. They're always reexamined. The departments now that specialize in reinvestigate murders every new piece of information is analyzed. And if there is a prospect of detective always will be however in Wendy serves case. We're going back all these years and he has been reinvestigated during those years. Hasn't it ration- they will absolutely over the years? Since Stephen was released operation noble reexamined. It spoke to witnesses. Look to the Forensic. Evidence did the best record on. That's standing here today when diesels murder is not distracted but well never stop looking. Everybody wants closure in many ways. That is what is symmetry office a full. Stop to a person's journey a message on tombstone into simple understanding of someone's life and how they died but there are gravestones every symmetry around the world that can never offer a full scope. They can only ever offer a question. Look Thank you for taking time to listen to the true crime investigators. Uk podcast this show researched produced and presented by John and Sally. Mentally the Narita was Steven. Wilson it was edited and produced for Cornucopia Radio by Peter. Easton you can find out more information than case notes about the Wendy Sewell murder by visiting our website at true crime. Investigators DOT CO DOT UK on websites. You'll also be able to send messages. Discover subscription links for all podcast platforms and follow us on all our social media accounts. Make sure you're subscribed to this feet. So you can automatically get new regular episodes of soon to be released them and also if you enjoy series we'd really appreciate you leaving a review or star rating in your favorite podcast up occasion. Your support will help us grow and expand our true crime investigations even further. Thank you

Wendy Wendy murder Wendy Sewell Peterson cliff Chris West Yorkshire Chris Clark Stephen Peter John Samuel Humble Yorkshire Ripper Stephen Downing officer Peter William Sutcliffe Don Hale United Kingdom Murder West Yorkshire kate Wendy Wendy soul
David Smith in Yorkshire. Plus, the works that inspired leading artists

The Art Newspaper Weekly

38:22 min | 1 year ago

David Smith in Yorkshire. Plus, the works that inspired leading artists

"Yeah. These people put Costes brought to you in association with Bonhams auctioneers since seventeen ninety three to find out more, visit bombs dot com. Hello, and welcome to the aunt newspaper podcast. I'm Ben Luke this week. We took to the newspapers, Jerry Finco about her book, looking at works in museums that inspired or influenced artists, that's coming up a bit later but first weak-kneed summer. So I'm out doors. And specifically in your sculpture park this week. Sees the opening of you just go to international festival sculpture across the northern British counties museums and galleries among the Hepworth Wakefield, and the Henry Moore institute in leads among the artists involved. Nary Bagram Ian, and Jimmy Dharam the Hepworth Reggie Johnson at the Henry Moore institute, Rachel Harrison at lease gallery and Houma, Bubba in Wakefield city centre. But at the sculpture park is a major show of the work of David Smith. The definitive scope to a postwar American abstraction. I came here to this coach up to. I declare lily the director and then to David Smith's daughters, Candida and Rebecca. Claire, before we get onto talking about the show itself. Can you give us a bit of an introduction for our non-british listeners us to Yorkshire sculpture park? And I guess it's place in this ecosystem of this very sculptural county. It's an amazing place. I, I would say that. But it's honestly, it's fantastic. It's five hundred acres of landscape designed about two hundred and fifty years ago. So we have incredible trees. We have valley, we have lakes would learned parkland gardens and in amongst all of that at any one time per day between eighteen ninety sculptures. Cited outdoors, five galleries to restaurants, the huckabee'll. So it's a really, really beautiful place to come and enjoy sculpture and landscape together. And there's this big Yorkshire sculpture international the festival across Yorkshire, essentially. Hello. Is this been going, and what does it say about this area, this sort of rich rich history? Well, we've been convened. That's your couch park, the hep with weight. Food leads are gathering more institute for golly, six years, maybe something called the Yorkshire scotch triangle. And we dreamed up the international really, I suppose it was a kind of naturally volition because all of these organizations that don't really fantastic sculpture projects, working with sculpture in a very particular way. And I think it's really important to mention Barbara Hepworth and Henry mall because in a way they're the crucible of modernism in Britain. They were both born within a few miles of where we're standing. And they're like, really is these institutions. And this very distinct primacy of sculpture. In this environment. And talking modernism here we are surrounded by a very great modernist sculptor David Smith. One of the things that's interesting that Smith. He's reputation both in the states and here can you give something of the flavor of where he sits in sort of pantheon both in his own territory if you like in US, but also also here? Well, David Smith, I think is true to say as a colossus of twentieth, century sculpture, not just in the material but really the impact that he had on sculpture. I think probably every bit as vital as Picasso sculpture he started his practice in the nineteen thirties. And actually, he only worked as a sculptor for thirty three years because he died very unexpectedly in nineteen sixty five but he was the first American to weld sculpture. Which sounds, you know, I didn't know it doesn't sound like that big a deal, but it really was a big deal. It was somebody bringing the factory the mid the workshop. Workshop practices into the studio. Indeed, his studios were really workshops, his influence worlds really profound. And it was global it started in America, but it very quickly spreads and so artists like Antony Carro. The British artist would really very clearly make a connection between their work and David Smith's, so in as many ways he really changed the face of sculpture to make abstract sculpture the show's really powerfully conveys this journey through his work because he begins you see in this very first room this journey from really looking at Picasso and Gonzales, and taking on board their lessons. But then growing from really extraordinarily can tell us something about that journey. I'm just so glad you say that, because that's this is a very focused exhibition. This is a very beautiful gallery. And it's. Fairly big gallery, but no way do Justice to amount who in the last five years of his life, which is two hundred sculptures. So we so we had to take a very kind of incisive you of David Smith, and it's called nine hundred thirty two nine hundred sixty five this is where he began to make sculpture. And this sadly when he ended making sculpture. So it's a really focused, look at that development and it takes us from. Development of painting through into these really Voss monumental sculptures doesn't and at the same time painting never leaves him and drawing equally never leaves him in terms of the actual making of this coaches when he trained as a painter at the art Students League in the mid twenties, and New York, he never trained as a sculptor, but he had worked as a teenager welding in a Studebaker car factory during the war. He was welding, destroy tanks and so he was using the stuff around him. I mean literally the coax the tools the bits of steel that he could find which, sadly, of course, we're really available because this was the depression with these depression years, and which massively hit rural mid America. And so he was able to pull these things together. But then gradually you see his voice developing into one that goes from being extraordinaire. Early lyrical poetic some works, which quite obsessively crosstrek. Phobic opening out in the very happy years in the nineteen fifties when he gets Guggenheim fellowship. And for the very first time is able to make sculpture without having to go in on his living as a welder in somewhere or other. So that gives him this incredible liberation, and you can see that in gallery three these beautiful light airy postitive sculptures, and then another shift in his practice in the sixties where he just starts to really work with scale really work with very large pieces of steel and kala. And, you know, often people think about color and sculptures, being somehow divorced. Actually, they never have been. Well, that's not true from around the nineteenth and into the twenty centuries. They were divorced. But ancient Greece, you see this ancient Egypt, you see this almost every coach on earth. You see Scott. Uptrend painting come together. And that's what David Smith dot he harnesses this incredible history. This lineage, that he's absolutely aware that he's part of, but then creates a new language. A whole new is like a whole new vocabulary. And that's what you see playing out in these gonna raise one of the things that really struck me seeing the show, was, of course, we think of him as an abstract sculptor, but there are some really extrordinary works could medals dishonor in this first room, and those are vigorously figurative, and extraordinary shocking in some ways, on they were really his response to fascism in Europe, to what he saw as profiteering from war. He was an avid, pacifist. And he traveled in Europe in the mid thirties, and saw the devastation that the first World War had. Fought in European those times and saw the growth of Nazism. Of course, the Spanish civil war, and the, the medals for dishonor a really response to that. And also he saw Sumerian seals in the British Museum see these beautiful incised pieces of stone, which were used a seals and nineteenth century German medals, which were really great influence on him as was her, unanmous, Bosh, embroi- go, so you see all of this coming together into images, which are disturbing. And frankly, I suppose if you're making something in response to those issues in one thousand nine hundred ninety nine it would be pretty strange if they if they weren't disturbing. There's one particular do for dishonor. I found deeply disturbing, and that's where he's working very close to home and looking at the Klux Klan and lynchings and again extr an extraordinary visceral seen. He's depicted, the absolutely. And he's also they're depicting the German American German Boone's, this pro Nazi. Group that was in the United States at that time, but, you know, we, we need to look at these things, and consider ourselves reflect on our own lies reflect on our own civilizations the way that we the way that we conduct ourselves in the world and. Yes. Think very hard about where we all sort of leap in scale you took two earlier had something to do with his trip that he made to Italy. And having this access to this extrordinary workshop that he had over there. Can you say something about that? I kind of think David Smith must have been a child in a sweet shop at this point, you know, he's being given this sadly abandoned, factories and factory near Genoa. And it's full of tools of fuller bits of steel of machinery, and it's got six guys who used to work in the factory, they're ready and waiting to work with this, big American important American artist in nineteen sixty two and he said that when he got it was very difficult. He didn't speak Italian. And he and spent the first few hours just cleaning up sweeping the floors cleaning. And in that way, got these guys respect and they learned a language and, you know, it's the language of the Artis. Zayn. It's the language of the mechanic of the world, people who know how to fix things people who know what to do with their hands and it's very difficult to make ambitious cope show without assistance, almost nobody in history has ever been able to do that. Sculpture is an enormously difficult thing to do on your own with these man. He's able to create something that previously hasn't really been accessible to him. This is nineteen sixty two. He then took tons of steel back to Bolton landing. Upstate New York with him and then continue to make these works, which there he calls, volt Trie Bolton's, and I suppose the very latest work that we have here in the expedition, gives you some sense of where David Smith may have gone had had his life, not being Cataldo in the way that it was. He was fifty nine when he died. And you really feel this was a man he was. Absolutely. The height of his powers who had the most extraordinary energy, and who knows what might have been struck storming here is through the beautiful day. We said and we, we have around us. I mean we're standing inside. We have vast glass windows in front of an outside these windows on lawn several of Smith's coaches from different periods. This is just go Japan. Can do in a way that other places right show things outside in the landscape in which is so important in terms of Smith's with I mean, for us, it's enormously important and to be able to bring these works within the gallery and have them outside the Ganor as you see say, as you say, seen three these large windows. Is unique and really important to us because, you know, we care hugely about sculpture, but we also really care about landscape. We care about how people move through landscape, the journeys that they make their experience of sculpture right now. It's beautifully sunny, but, you know three hours ago it was raining. And that's the great thing about Yorkshire there's always going to be shifts and change in this in this in the weather here. And so we're looking right now at a peace corps Q by nineteen which is on loan from Tate. And we're really really very happy that tastes allowed us to show outdoors and it singing in its reflecting light. It's, it's kind of absorbing reflecting the blue of the sky, but even this morning when the sky was really dull this piece had an incredible kind of about it, because it's able to pull in environment around it. And then bounce it back out clear. Thank you so much for talking to us. That's my pleasure. Thank you. Beca in Candida. We are standing in view of your father sculptures in the in the outside world that here at here you just go to park. This was a matter of tremendous importance to it wasn't it? Can you tell me about his thoughts about having his workout side, kendeda? He had his work outside largely because there was no place to store it inside and the more he put outside the more he wanted side. He thought they were too big to travel, Sam anthem and that they would stay in both landing forever. But that turned out not to be the case at all. So I mean can you create a picture for us of what it was like in the fields around Bolton landing Rebecca for us as children? It seemed very animated. There were all these objects sort of located down the slopes of the field, and we would play there and their long. Long grasses and flowers. And they always like the ones, I felt were kind of, like animals the best, I liked the painted wounds a lot. I liked seeing one summer they would be not painted. The next summer they were colors. And pieces also came and went and change positions. So would he would he of take you to see new worker would he kind of just leave you to, to find the works around in the landscape. I never remember him showing us anything. It was just part of what was there and what he did, and it was just what we live with, and is it right? That he sort of also made works in your home kendeda. There's a wonderful photograph in one of the rims here of, of a floor in your home with joins everywhere, all over the flu sometimes at night after we were asleep. He would draw draw draw and sometimes in the morning, we'd come out and era bait. Drawings are lower the floor said, down the night before and left to dry. It was like Christmas. It's extraordinarily wouldn't of the things that really comes through from reading about him, and also just, just sort of seeing the work in this show, is that he was his, his production was relentless it was an extraordinary amount of work that he was. He seems sorta completely compelled to create work. We'll toy Becca. I guess, compelled sort of seems like I just think it was more like breathing than being compelled. He also. I mean, he did things like when we had scratches on her legs, he would put bright red Makira comb. And then at a picture on or if he's writing something, he adds a picture on. It was just a constant flow. And can you a picture of what it was like the workshop was, where the welding was happening and all that kind of stuff? We allowed anywhere near that. We were we. Yes, we could come there, but we had to we could not look at the welding, we. Just I can remember being told that, right. We, we just look at it, and we had to wait for all the noise to stop or else like. And then we could yell really loud, and then we would get attention. We didn't like barge right in no. But I remember there is a pond where used to go fishing, and we caught a fish, we couldn't get it off the hook. So he'd have to go get my father, dick Cam, get it off the hook and we stand by the doorway until he noticed him would come and take the fish off the hook for us. And then go back to his welding. Roy Bolton landing remains your home today Candida. Yes, it is. It's our home and we love it. We have a few sculptures fields, but many of those sculptures are actually here in Yorkshire right now, instead of fields. So we're happy to see them here. One of the things I think we'd impulsive about this exhibition is, you'll father had a real connection to you went to Britain just in the sort of artistic influences, but certainly in he's autistic. But then in his Arctic influence, there are a number of great British sculptors who found in your phone. This work. Real liberation is that something that's important to us in terms of seeing these works here and knowing that, that work has had an effect here? Oh, absolutely. And I think that I mean English sculpture is English as England is a sculpture land. It's you know the early. Megaliths and the then all the sculptors that have great sculptors that are English. It's, it's really a place for sculpture. We're standing in view of one of the keyboard scope, just, and it's actually in the take Lixion. I'm normally familiar with this work. I've seen it numerous times in the galleries, but it's actually in the open air, and it's utterly transformed. This is what you'll father wanted, isn't it? Yeah. I mean that's the point with the stainless steel is the reflectively. It it, he talked about seeing the sun come up and see and being reflected and the sun, the sun sets and the sky and the most of all the changing light. So to have an indoors is just. Putting an animal in a cage, it's like having a beautiful lamp. And then suddenly, you plug it in and then like comes on. That's what it's like having the cube by outdoors. He worked in such an enormous range of Tirias didn't. In terms of the pattern is of the works, and also the way that he painted on them. Was there a sort of did he have sort of programmatic response to it? So would he work for months at a time with certain kinds of finishes and then move on and move on what he worked for tween all these different times, I think it was very much anytime sort of a pattern or program was established he would just go go away from it. He do the opposite or something different. I think he just mixed it up all the time. And. Intern also in just in terms of materials, and he was a real student of materials, and he really he got a lot from materials and was very attentive to them. It was very much part of his process, and he never really gave up on over to he studied rich originally painting, and he never really gave that up. He's renowned as scope to, but it's abundantly clear when you walk through this exhibition that he remains very much a painter. He painted all the time. He Bank, atrial all the time, it was part of his Mente shin part of his thinking, physical is thinking, and painting with important. He will to fuse, they are at works painting and sculpture, so that, that works moved in between the two disciplines, and as well as being your home candy Bolton landing remains an active place today. Is that right? Yes. There's in fact, there's a show of landscapes made important landing over two hundred and fifty years. And there's some of David's work, there's, there's some of my work there Dorothy, deigner, and very early artist landscape artists and Weber, furlong many other people and. It's a great show at the Bolton historical museum in Bolton landing. I'd like to us phone about this wonderful element, which is both of your names appear in the titles of these coaches, a great deal. We have for instance, we have candied standing on the hill. Very near where we're standing now in this glorious sunlight today. Can you tell me something about that? The waking names goat is off. Do you think he told us that he was an older father? Then we were born and that was the way he could say Hello to us when we were in museums. He would write their names, high Candida. Hi, Rebecca or name a piece after I searched simply title, a piece, and then write our names on it as a way of saying, Hello, always was. That was that because he, he was, there was the sort of extrordinary commitment to making work, and therefore he was spending so much time with his work. In a way that the work was a means of relating to you, when he was extremely busy in this way. I don't know if it was that thought out, but our parents were separated. So we were. Very often far away. And I think that played a part in it, too, but I completely agree with candidates. That's exactly what it was. Sometimes people think it's titles, but it's not it's more. It's lows. Thank you so much. Both of you took into thank you. Thank you. You should go to international continues until the twenty ninth September, and the David Smith exhibition is at Yorkshire scope Japan until the fifth of January twenty twenty an exhibition dedicated to a special project frequencies by the artist of Morocco who is on the podcast, two weeks ago opens at the sculpture park on the thirteenth of July alongside another special project by the artist. Hugh, we'll be back and talking about artist influences of today's. The influential English AC Thomas hope was a remarkable man, an inveterate traveler into Lecter each women his London townhouse was lavishly decorated in the style of the countries that he visited filled with treasures. He declined fastfamily wealth able to indulge his passions to the full and it was on his grand tour in seventeen ninety five that he purchased the two marble hands from second, century AD, which will be that bombs antiquity sale in July as Bonhams, head of antiquities. Francesca Hicken puts it Thomas put together one of the finest glitch in of ancient ruins jet ever formed in Britain, and these magnificent hands among his very first which is have pride of place in the statute, Gary and his home. To find out more, visit Bonhams dot com. Welcome back now, the newspapers, Los Angeles-based. Correspondent Jerry Finco has a new book out looking at artists inferences cooled. It speaks to me it features fifty artists talking about works. It inspired them in museums around the world. Jury is on the line from LA now jury, tell me how this project began it actually grew out of a column that I used to do at the Elliott times I was a staffer porter. They are for a couple years on. And I had this idea, I was covering a lot of hard news at the time, breaking news on Boca. Lakme ah. I had this idea that what we really wanted was to hear more from the artists directly. I wanted to get the artist's own voices into pages of the newspaper, and I'd had this idea really for a long time of asking artists to pick works of art from their local museums really acting as tour guides of a sort, pointing out works that we might otherwise not notice to move the Cullum. We on the column. Once a month. So we think in all there were probably about thirty columns. I did with LA artists. So once you had the t columns in the bag, it was that the moment where you thought this was beginning to look book. Now, I actually had the book in mind from very early on. I just liked the idea of gathering more and more of these and going farther afield, so that it wouldn't just be a book about L A artists on LA artworks so east conflicting artists in the rest of the world. But the key factor is that you to king to artists about works that were in museums close to where they grew up where I lived. Yeah, I use the word hometown, and then I let them figure that out whatever they want to choose as their home town, where they're living now where studio now where they where they feel most connected now. But the main idea was that I didn't want all of the works to come from MoMA, ver- example. And then I wanted on these to be works that they actually live within a sense. They return. Turn to. They feel connected to and they're sharing something with us that we might not already know about, whether it's in San Francisco, or soul, or Lisbon or Johannesburg thing is that you get access into these all lives, as well as perhaps the sort of gross vote history, as it were right? Yes. Some of them really turn out to be auto biographical to tell you more about the artists. The name even realize in some cases, there's a really direct connection between the artwork that they choose. And the kind of art they make. I mean, look at look at Chilean wearing chose of Rembrandt, self porch dreamt, and what is Jolyon wearing known, for of course herself portrait's ROY? But then you Russo sort of flummoxed in a way by looking at some of the others. I mean, I was struck by the fact that, for instance, kunia Parker sort of contemporary of Jillian wearing chose a work, but a completely unexpected artists and says that she chose Palo you cello and you would never necessarily make the connection between Canadian of chiller. No, but it is a war painting and she talks about destruction. And you do when you think about Cornelius work, and how much of it, it relies on processes of destruction. There is some there is some connection, maybe not so direct into so tell us about some of the other. And some of those particularly surprised you hunt. Yeah, there were surprises every step of the way I think one of the bigger surprises was my conversation with I way way because we feel like we already know everything. There is to know about him. He's such a public singular an exhibition est in some ways. But what I discovered in his choice of work. He chose a Chinese Jade from the Shang dynasty from the tomb of fhu, how and it used to be owned by the Beijing, national museum. In what you discover in his interview is that he's a major collector of Chinese Jade himself, and that his fascination with Jade, his devotion to Jade began during the cultural revolution at a time when Jade was forbidden because of its association with Royal dynasties traditional culture. Because we think of when you think of I way, way and traditional Chinese out, you think of him smashing vases, don't you? So in a sense, the idea that he's a collector sort of is counter intuitive in terms of perception of him. Right. And I think it's interesting that he doesn't use his platform to advertise it. That's not that's really not what he's about. You know, he is about trying to create social change or bring attention bringing attention to these social issues. So the fact that he has a personal very passionate collection is, was a real revelation to me, one of the things that comes to you about the book is the idea that artists never necessarily into historical works in the way that historians will. And so there are plenty of books about historical where they were so to stand methodologies in terms of the way that they're interpreted or the way that the form is described. But so often in this. There were just unexpected reasons for these works having appeal to the artists. I, I think that's really true. And I think you see that most clearly in the really famous works like Nick cave, from Chicago shows, Jasper Johns target to discuss. And he reads it as a painting loaded with not just sexual politics. But also racial politics in a way he looks at the colors, and he sees the color red as the color of blood on. And he's coming out of years of gun violence in Chicago. And he's working on projects related to gun violence in Chicago, and he begins to see a bloody target which I don't know that, that many art historians did. Bradfords reading, Rothko, very interesting in, in a similar light in the sense that. It's not necessarily the fact that he's seeing this in the museum Rothko that, that he's mother, who's put in a frame on his bedroom wall, and he, and he, and he sees it time, and again, sort of on the one hand inspires him. But then he's relationship with changes over time, doesn't it and it's, it's a poster hanging on his bedroom wall in Santa Monica, when he's a teenager, and he said, it's kind of what gave him permission gave him the idea that he could make surfaces to. And then he becomes more critical of it over time looking at Roth coast history looking at Roth was mill you'll wondering, we are the women in that million where are black, people would there have been room for a queer black artists. Like, Mark one of the things that I think is interesting overall is that and this was, maybe not so much surprise, but it really came home to me, and making this book, he younger artists in the book and I say artists in their thirties, and forty twenties thirties, and forties. Tended to have a more. Ical relationship to the works that they chose. So they loved them, but they hated them or had problems with them, or fell somehow fell disenchanted with them at some of the older artists in the book had a less complicated relationship. They just chose things. They simply loved. Interesting. Speak to the wider culture. Or does it speak to a more intellectual response that artists have to today? There's been a lot of talk about the sort of MFA, if -cation of the art world, lots of these artists writing dissertations in way that perhaps these from earlier periods might not have an F will have a sort of a very historic Royal critical theory, background, as well as being practicing artists. I think you're absolutely right. I do think that the way artists are trained today and a graduate programs that MFA programs. They go to that prize. This kind of criticality critical thinking, does change the way they interact with art. So can you give some of the examples of some of the establish to older artists, and they sort of direct? Reverence for for works of Bill. Viola chose painting at the Getty by Derek outs of the nunciatures in basically describes it as the most powerful painted in the world or. Some sense of a woman in this is the Virgin Mary, but of a woman at the moment she knows she's pregnant. He is moved by this painting on complicate you in love with his painting in an uncomplicated way. I think and Judy Chicago shows a painting by Agnes pelton it through which she sees how women artists were able to achieve things in abstraction and become. Pioneers of abstraction, I think she has a very intellectual response. I'm not saying it's an on intelligent or unintellectual response, but it's not complicated by some critique of the artist's intentions. The sort of Eureka moments for you, that we eighty enlightened the connection between artists off in a way that you hadn't expected. There were some really interesting moments. I mean, one of the things that was so much fun and putting together, this book was to see the conversations that star, you know, I thought of this book as conversations I was having with artists, and then or they were having with the paintings, but in the end, the artists seem to be talking to each other, because there are some key themes or topics that emerge in one of the most interesting things that happened was governor a roscoe's interview was, he chose the most important most famous work of as tech sculpture ever, the sun stone, it's a big big disc at the national anthropology museum in Mexico City, that represents somehow scientific achievements of the house tax, whether it's it worked as a calendar or some kind of Astra nominal guide. We don't exactly know. Well, what's really interesting is Pia Camille is my only other artists from Mexico City, and independ-. Clinton alie. She chooses Aztec sculpture from the same Usedom excavated in the eighteenth century around the same time. But she chooses a sculpture of the earth goddess co at Lakeway, which she says was essentially reburied after it was excavated because it was so fierce empower ful in its femininity that represented some kind of female, our that we couldn't make sense of couldn't understand couldn't handle. And, and so those two columns if things like that really, really surprising along the way, and I think, really interesting to see artists almost indirect conversation with each other. When of brings strikes me is, is, is the nitro influences is the complicated, isn't it? Because on the one hand, we, we talk about influences being quite a linear process, but it's not like that is ended with this really confirms. Oh, yeah. And, and that it's not all about potassium Indu Sean, right? Like isn't that isn't that what we learned in art history that the twentieth century belongs to Picasso, do shop, and you find yourself in one lineage or the other in. We'd probably say in the twenty first century that it belongs to do shop on. Well, do shop doesn't show up in this book, and Picasso doesn't show up in this book. And instead, you get some painters artists who are lesser known. I wonder has, you know, if you started this process rushing a column in these folks were in your local museums. Have you revisited them since seen them in a different light through these conversations? Yeah. Isn't that interesting? Yeah. I mean. Certainly the Derek doubts at the Getty. The nunciatures painting is something I. Never really paid attention to before. Bill Violette shows it. And so that's something I look at a completely new light now. And yet, I actually hope to spend more time, visiting more of these artworks in person. I haven't seen them all in person myself yet. Bucket list things. Thank you. Joey Fatone looking to us, he's been pleasure. Thank you for having me. Speaks to me is published by them. Only co presto and his price twenty nine dollars, ninety five or nineteen pounds nine you can re William Kentridge, his choice of work in the current printed issue of the newspaper at the newspaper comb, or on our app for s which you can find the app store on the website, you'll find a range of subscriptions, so that you can read our content seamlessly because multiple platforms. Meanwhile, please subscribe to daily newsletter. For all the latest news. Go to the newspaper dot com and click on the newsletter link at the top brought to the page. Please subscribe to the puck cost if you haven't already and if you're enjoying do gives a writing review helps this defined us. You can follow us on Twitter at ten audio and the newspaper is on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook, of course, the newspaper podcast is produced by Judy Housego. Amy Dawson and David Clark, and David is also the editor thanks to Claire candidate and Rebecca and to Joey and thank you for listening next week. We'll be discussing a newly restored and vastly altered Vermeer painting in Dresden and took into Helen chemic- about her exhibition. The white chapel gallery in London. See then? The newspaper put cost is brute association with Bonhams Oceania since seventeen ninety three to find out more to come.

David Smith Candida Britain Yorkshire Yorkshire sculpture park Bolton landing US Rebecca Bolton Jerry Finco London Claire Barbara Hepworth Hepworth Wakefield Getty Roy Bolton Chicago Yorkshire scotch triangle Costes Europe
#687  Better than the Ways of the World (Daniel 1:89)

Pray the Word with David Platt

05:08 min | 1 year ago

#687 Better than the Ways of the World (Daniel 1:89)

"Pre the word with David Platt is a resource from radical dot net. Daniel chapter one versus eight and nine but Daniel resolved that he would not defile himself with the king's food, or with the wine that he drank, therefore, he asked the chief of the Unix to allow him not to defile himself and God gave Daniel favor and compassion. In the side of the chief of the Unix, I love this picture here of Daniel's faithfulness. So everybody around him as told to eat this way, drink this way, act live this way and Daniel trust, God Daniel says, no, I'm gonna follow my God. I'm going to live, according to the commandments and rules and statutes of God. And so he basically asked for permission to not defile himself in Old Testament picture. After by eating certain things drinking certain things, and God gives favor to Daniel as Daniel trusts in the word of God. Don't you want that to be true of your life? The world says the prosperity is found in living this way or that way doing this or that. Even in indulging in this or that. And. Don't you want your life to say, I'm not gonna follow the ways of this world. I'm gonna follow the word of God. I'm gonna live trusting in the word of God, that his word is better than the ways of this world. God is pleased. God is honored when we live like that such just wants you to think about your life today your routines this week. How, how does the world tell you to live, and how does God's word direct? You to live like really think about that. How does God's word lead you to live differently than the world? And I want to encourage you to make a conscious decision to live not, according to the ways of this world, but according to the word of God, how does God's word lead you to work differently. How does God leads you to lead your family differently or to live as a single differently? How does God's word lead you to speak differently? How does God's word lead you to spend your money differently this week? And then live live, according to God's word, and see what God does not that it will be easy by any means to go against the grain of this world. But it will be worth it. It will bring glory to God and it will be good for you. You will never go wrong. I will never go wrong when I'm trusting when you're trusting the word of God. Oh, god. We believe that we believe that we will not go wrong trusting your word. So we pray today, and you would help us to live, according to your word, not accord in the ways of this world. Help us to distinguish to discern the difference, God help us not to get caught up in a world system. World picture around us. World values around us ways that seem so common to everyone else, but do not align with your word. God, please change the way we think change the way we desired change the way we spend our time, the way we spend our money, change the way we work changed the way we live and lead, our families, and live and lead a singles change the way we do church. God, we pray that you keep us from doing church, the way the world says we should do shirts as Yorkshire. Church. We, we would do charge a Cording to your word. Oh, god. Please, please help us help us to live. According to your word Elvis to live with trust in your word and repay that as we do. We would see when we know this. Oh, even as we asked this. We know that we will see the goodness of your words that your ways are far better than the ways of this world. We trust. And so help us to live in this today, this week, we pray help us to follow your word when it goes against the grain of this world and help us to trust in you every step of the way in Jesus name. We pray Amen.

Daniel David Platt Yorkshire Elvis
Mascarandy Meanders Podcast (#1)

Mascarandy Meanders

00:00 sec | 2 years ago

Mascarandy Meanders Podcast (#1)

"Welcome to the first edition of Moscow on demand is as I say I got this idea who listens charcoal Phillip Bell who's based in Isla whites with these beechy rumbles talks about being an offer publishing and unreal uses walks to clues had got writes this blockhouse thinking of a project's vice versa. I'm at Delaware forest today. Just touch me researching my hi. <hes> my next book dog floats his for very very dirty covered in muck about ten years ahead of me. I could probably the birds singing as well. It's a it's a beautiful beautiful spring day and it's been a good walk so fast so for myself. I always wanted to be a writer ever since I <hes> since I grew up with something I I wanted to do was to do beyond you is probably because of Julius while Holler on and <hes> I think that's how you pronounce your name on on press gang probably built for teenage crush there but I always felt that I wanted to wanted to write a great writer at school to be honest with. You like to always like to research. In projects and do things trophy was my favorite subject. I love the idea of getting stockings kind of complex projects and field work and things like that and that's probably what led me to be outdoors those A._M.. I'm now I suppose my first book was actually not in the outdoors. It was <hes> on Tony Hunt M._B._A.. Ice Hockey player probably the greatest player ever to play sport in this from this country <hes> then did a book or if Calcutta Musleh Sat in Welsh Rugby League legend and from there to apologize if these are not in the in the right order I did a book on the three peaks of the Yorkshire Dell's using the the Yorkshire Three Peaks Challenge. I suppose as a basis for story also done a book on fifty gems of Yorkshire twenty-five Great Pubs Cats Walk in Yorkshire and I'm just completed a book on on Darbyshire as well <hes> using the kind of fifty gems model also don't worn with Lebron has well. He's a he's really play from WHO Morrison and the book that probably most proud of is the. <hes> highs lows and Hypo story of Danny Sculthorpe Rugby League player who have had some some severe mental issues. I'm probably doing a disservice. They're just advise you to go out and read the book. It's incredible what he's done. His Life Hyphen inspiration he's bringing to bringing so all today amounts in out in hatch man <hes> researching this this book on on Cheshire and you know normally after my last projects don had malice project. It was on Darbyshire. We'll finish probably two months ago. I saw have a good good month off from been dreitzer. How will leave everything till the last minute okay if you're restrictive client you probably don't WanNa hear what say seems to see sewer for me when I say last minute? This isn't the case writing thirty thousand words the night before I do my research nice and early and then I find that when I'm when I'm driven by a deadline I perform better and that's exactly as it was for the fiftieth. Eh Gems walks on trial process one a little bit differently. I'm trying to get out early as account trying as many of Chesa gems covered as account before I start getting stuck into the book in earnest and after a couple of days off after a busy superior that seemed to make sense to so call today so yeah. That's that's me really see. The dog has Tibetan mouse doc seems to be enjoying herself of the moments <hes>. She's in front of me off the lead. She very good off the lead. It didn't used to be she isn't the moments <hes> realize mugged though which is a bit strange for a dog just keep trying to step around all the puddles after she's finished drinking out of them of course today's to go to hatch mare have brought small ptolemy so if there's nobody about different because I is an open water swimming place and then dive into not let's we've Gospel into delegates up some more cosimo pitches is really nice today really quiet so you could probably hit a bird singing just over the top of me droning on and I hope you enjoy this edition of meanders find to do quite a quite a few more my even do a little bit more on this <hes> on this Waltzer Day when you get Saddam able for now her if you won't find out anymore just had to must granny media Dot Com and hall to hear from you soon which is say Kobe in a few minutes or could be in a few days thank you. I just wanted to say really with quite a few times and <hes> quite late in the evening and got lost a number overtimes as well <hes>. I'm actually out looking for somewhere. That's a little cheeky Vivian at some point and then we'll jump into Hodgman afterwards even on a day like today which is a Monday which is <hes>. You know especially this as Tom. Year skills are usually back. You know quite a few people around US acquires place in the world. It's certainly a lot of places to find a little bit of solace and with little bit of tranquility as well <hes> the reason of I probably started this book a little bit early than I would normally is with the last one I did for not assigned. Pichu is a little bit later on as a how to use a couple of stock images which you know fairplay people use my images for their books as well L. Stock so it's almost giving to some of those photographers was not idea when you want to write a book which is solely about you visit these places so I I do think those those photographers that I. I did use for Balkan. Thank everybody's use my pitches as well for for those books are quite a few on on the stock so yeah so the book starts starts today. Research starts today and we'll we don't follow the end of January seems like quiet. l'ensemble seventy does come back on you comeback and you pre quick something else. I'm looking at which anybody listening they might be interesting involved in is self publishing as well. I believe the skills is to self. Publish your books for you so that's taking the copy editing design and put it into a package. Which is a book obviously gay at a good price a good product for you to sell to sell wherever now we're not talking? You know if you're an upcoming Stephen King. You know you probably best trying to find the the big publishing houses to do that. You know if you're part of a local community group local Church Group Small Sports Club won't raise her a few a few pounds through through selling box where it's a history of your claw by your events or whatever you know. I've got the skills that can help you do. That's obviously I do charts for my my time. You know Sir things needs to be done. You know specialism by itself. When it comes to places like this book I would like to consider myself as as pretty reasonable and probably be be losing money anyway because you?

Darbyshire writer Delaware forest Danny Sculthorpe Rugby League Isla whites Moscow Yorkshire Dell Phillip Bell Welsh Rugby League Yorkshire US Tony Hunt Hockey Morrison Calcutta Musleh Church Group Small Sports Club open water swimming Cheshire Julius Pichu
March 14, 2020: Shannon Matthews Discovered Alive

Today in True Crime

00:00 sec | 8 months ago

March 14, 2020: Shannon Matthews Discovered Alive

"Today is Saturday march fourteenth. Twenty twenty on this day in two thousand eight nine year old Shannon Matthews was discovered in a flat in Dewsbury West Yorkshire England. She'd been missing for twenty four days. Welcome to day and true crime. Apar- cast original today. We're covering the discovery of Shannon Matthews. A nine year old girl from West Yorkshire England who went missing in the winter of two thousand eight after failing to come home from school on February nineteenth. Her Mother Karen Matthews contacted the police in a state of distress. The story sparked an intense search for Shannon that captured the nation's attention for weeks but twenty four days later the police were no closer to finding her and had essentially given up any hope. That Shannon was still alive. That would all change around one PM. On March fourteenth two thousand eight it was a typically cold grey wet Friday afternoon in Dewsbury and the weather was doing little to improve the moods of the county's residents the local playground and badly car had gone practically unused for weeks swings dormant chains creaking in the wind. The same flier plastered every lamp. Post street sign displaying. The smiling girl with a pony tail of dark brown hair Shannon Matthews was the second missing British girl to capture the nation's attention in less than a year the first three year old Madeleine McCann had vanished in May of two thousand seven and had never been found. She remained in the news for months. Of course the mccanns had come from higher stock nine year old. Shannon Matthews came from a poor family and was already losing her place in the headlines after only twenty four days but not in Dewsbury for the small West Yorkshire Community. The disappearance had hit troublingly close to home. Especially when Shannon's mother Karen Matthews appeared on the evening news tears streaming down her face as she pleaded Shannon flees. Come home. You are not in trouble. That was over three weeks ago. It was common knowledge among the West Yorkshire Police that most child abductors killed their victims within hours officers. Were relatively certain that Shannon Matthews would not be coming home alive. That didn't mean the search was over in fact it was quickly becoming the precincts. Most expensive investigation in decades constables had spent countless hours tracking down and interviewing the many family members of Karen Matthews and her boyfriend Craig Mehan so far they had no significant leads. And so it was that detective constables. Paul Ketil fifty five and Nick Townsend. Forty-nine found themselves at a row of apartments in lid gate gardens just before one in the afternoon on March fourteenth. They'd been dispatched to check up on yet. Another relative in this case. An uncle of crags named Michael Donovan. Donovan didn't answer the door but the constables knocking alerted one of his neighbors. The neighbor was curious as to how the investigation was going and insisted that the tenant must be home after all his silver. Peugeot was parked right out front in clear view. Soon a second neighbor emerged from the apartment directly. Beneath Michael Donovan's the elderly woman who introduced herself as June badly confirmed that she had heard Michael Moving about in the apartment earlier in the day she thought it sounded like a Man. At least the footsteps were certainly much heavier than the pitter-patter of a child's feet she had heard over the last few weeks twenty minutes later a battering ram crashed through the door of. Michael Donovan's apartment. Dc's Townsend. Dan Kettle. Well streamed inside flanked by three more members of the West Yorkshire Police Force. They moved methodically through the kitchen and the living room but the apartment seemed completely devoid of life. The master bedroom was locked but the battering Ram made short work of it. The room appeared to be just as empty as the rest of the apartment but the faint scent of cigarette smoke filled the air and the bedsheets. Were still warm. Someone had just been there but we're they'd gone. The constables couldn't say at least until they heard it a faint. Weak voice called out. Stop It. You're frightening me. The men shared a look before they knew what was happening. The bed began to jostle and move. Suddenly the head of a small girl popped out of a hole in the baseboard drawer. She was crying distraught and clearly bewildered by the arrival of the policemen. She continued to crawl out of the bed until she stood before them. I'm Shannon she said without a word. Dc Kettle well scooped up the sobbing nine year old. He carried her out of the bedroom down the stairs and out the front door to the police van waiting outside a few minutes later the officers still inside the apartment. Received a call over their radios. It was kettle well with a message from Shannon. Mike's where I was he's under the bed constable Matthew. Tricky knelt down so he could peer through the whole that Shannon had crawled out of inside the frame of the bed layup thirty nine year old man curled in a fetal position as the officers approached him. Michael Donovan kicked and squirmed. He even tried to bite but eventually they manage to drag him out from under the bed and down to the curb once he was safely handcuffed and locked in a second van. He finally seemed to calm down after a few minutes. He croaked out a single phrase. Get KAREN DOWN here. The constables shared a look of consternation. No doubt wondering what Donovan wanted with. The mother of the girl he abducted and held for twenty four days. We've got a plan. He offered by way of explanation. We are sharing the money coming up. What first appeared to be a typical case of child abduction unravels into a twisted sordid tale of betrayal and neglect pilots nurse. I'm excited to announce that crime junkies Ashley. Flowers has a new podcast original series. I think you'll really enjoy. It's called supernatural with Ashley. Flowers and you can find brand new episodes every Wednesday. We all know that most mysteries can be solved by looking at the facts but sometimes the facts don't lead to a logical explanation and the truth lies somewhere in the unknown in supernatural with Ashley. Flowers Ashley takes a deep dive into the strange and surreal to explain some of the world's most bizarre true crime occurrences each week. She'll dig into a different crime or mystery where the most fitting theory isn't always the most conventional from exorcisms to unsolved murders to alien abductions. Ashley will take on. The tails challenge the unexplained and dissect the facts with a heavy helping of skepticism and rationale. So are you ready to get to the bottom of history's most peculiar events? Follow supernatural with Ashley. Flowers free on spotify. Or wherever you get your podcasts. Now back to the story on March fourteenth two thousand eight nine year old Shannon Matthews was found in the apartment of thirty nine year old. Michael Donovan the uncle of her mother's boyfriend. The police officers who rescued Shannon were relieved and astonished to find that she was still alive. Investigators Hope Shannon will be able to explain what had happened to her but it quickly became clear that this would not be possible. She was traumatized and extremely confused. Doctors would soon determine that she had been drugged for weeks with a cocktail of sedatives. Painkillers antidepressants and travel. Sickness pills likely in an attempt to keep her quiet and docile. The only thing Shannon seemed certain of was that she did not want to see her mother. Investigators were initially confounded by. Michael Donovan's assertion that Shannon's own mother was behind the abduction. So far Karen Matthews had behaved just as they expected a worried. Mother should but some of Karen's closest friends soon told them that she was anything. But a loving mother and they believed she was putting on an act for the press when the investigators pressed Karen with these accusations she finally broke down and confessed. She admitted she had known. That Shannon was with Michael Donovan but she had never wanted anything less than the best for her child. According to Karen she'd been planning to leave her boyfriend Craig for some time but was worried about what he would do when he found out. Michael Donovan had supposedly recognized the young mothers distress and offered to give her and her kids a place to stay away. Karen said that the plan was to leave Crag on the afternoon of February nineteenth. She asked Michael to pick Shannon up after school and would meet up with them later. That evening with Shannon's siblings but Craig surprised her by staying home from work. Karen didn't want to reveal that she'd been planning to run but also didn't have an explanation. For where Shannon was Craig's family had pressured her to call the police and report Shannon Missing and she'd caved then the media story had gotten out of control and the mother hadn't known what to do that was Karen Matthews story or the most coherent version of it. At least the details and excuses kept shifting and changing. Meanwhile Michael Donovan had an altogether different version of events. Michael and Karen had met at Craig's father's wake a few months prior Craig had taken the death. Hard and their relationship had suffered. Meanwhile Karen and Michael had grown close. Then in January of two thousand eight Karen came to Michael. With a plan to stage and abduction Karen would report Shannon missing then play the role of hysterical mother to garner media attention. Meanwhile Michael would keep the girl at his apartment. Once the reward for Shannon reached fifty thousand pounds he would quote find Shannon and split the money with Karen Neither Karen nor Michael would agree to the others version of events but it was clear that both were lying to some degree and that they knew each other fairly well they were tried as accomplices in the kidnapping on December fourth. Two Thousand Eight Karen Matthews and Michael Donovan were found guilty of kidnapping false imprisonment and perverting the course of justice. They were sentenced to eight years in prison while we may never know exactly what happened to Shannon Matthews during her twenty four days in captivity. It's clear that she survived. Childhood fraught with abuse and neglect. She was repeatedly betrayed and mistreated by the very adults. She should have looked to for protection and comfort during the course of the trial. The prosecution presented evidence that Shannon had been regularly drugged for years. But in the end Shannon's story is one of hope after the trial she was placed in foster care and given a new identity. She wouldn't ever be neglected drugged or hidden inside a bed again wherever she is today. We hope that she's happy and safe. I'm Vanessa Richardson. Today and true. Crime is a par cast original. You can find more facades of today in true crime and all other podcast originals for free on spotify today in true crime was created by Max Cutler and is a podcast studios original. It is executive produced by Max Cutler. Sound design by Anthony Val sick with production assistance by Ron Shapiro. Carleen madden and Aaron Larson. This episode of today in True Crime was written by Andrew. Kelleher with writing assistance by Maggie. Admire I'm Vanessa Richardson? Hi Listeners. If you haven't heard it already. I highly recommend you check out the new podcast original series supernatural with Ashley Flowers every Wednesday. Take a deep dive into the strange and surreal to find the truth behind some of the world's most bizarre true crime occurrences search for supernatural with Ashley Flowers in the spotify APP and listened free today.

Shannon Karen Matthews Shannon Matthews Michael Donovan Ashley Flowers Donovan Craig Mehan Shannon Missing Dewsbury Michael spotify Dewsbury West Yorkshire Englan West Yorkshire England West Yorkshire Police West Yorkshire Police Force Apar Michael Moving Twenty twenty Madeleine McCann Vanessa Richardson
Sayeeda Warsi

How I Found My Voice

50:10 min | 1 year ago

Sayeeda Warsi

"Hello, and welcome to how I found my voice. I'm far jessa producer of this podcast before we go to the main conversation, I wanted to tell you about our sponsor road, microphones, if you're interested in making a professional signing podcast road microphones, make it easy to create content rather than battled technology, the road Custer pro allows for four studio. Presenters easy connections for phone calls, and much more. It's a complete podcast predictions to you in one. Just take it out the books. Connect your Mike and hit record the road Custer pro- professional podcasting made easy, check it out at road, Kosta dot com. That's our OD Custer dot com. I'm not prepared to sit it out. And I used to if not me, then who mom and if not now then when. I've been battered. Let's for twenty four hours in the run-up to that speech to change it to pull it mandate. I was starting to did that because the pressure was so ver well. We still have to take loyalty taste, simply because a few individuals who may happen to share the face of a billion people of which I am one have gone out and committed the most horrendous farms against our country. I just won't take that loyal to test and more. Hello, and welcome to how I found my voice podcast brought to you by intelligence squared. I'm Samir Ahmed. This podcast is all about going behind the celebrity to understand how they came to find their voice. What influences shape them from family school, favorite books, TV to reacting to the changing politics of their country, around them, and thinking, perhaps something's, not, right? I need to speak out. Let us know what you think by rating and reviewing us on I tunes and tweeting with intelligence squared hashtag, I key to cite awa- sees one of the best known female politicians in Britain. She's a Yorkshire woman of Pakistani. Heritage a lawyer and from an early age. Got politics in her blood's. She first came to prominence when she ran as the Jews brief candidate for the conservative party facing a Fairmont hostility and a macho general election campaign in two thousand and five, but she succeeded in entering government as a pair after prime Minister David Cameron. Promoted her to the house of lords still only thirty six she became the first Moos limb chairperson of the conservative party in recent years, she's become known for speaking out against what she says, is serious anti Muslim prejudice. She said Islam phobia, has passed the dinner party test, the fascinating and changing way that you have chosen to use your voice over the course of your political Christopher is why I'm so keen to Torchy's. So thank you for coming in. If I could ask you first, how would you describe yourself in a sentence will say outspoken awkward, yo show woman. I'm constantly asked in public life. What is the biggest part of my identities because, you'll you know, you know, the question that I constantly most Muslims in life, get asked you must Lamai you British are you and I would say that I'm probably Yorkshire. That's probably what underpins most of my personality. And sometimes when people down here in London, find you slightly order now spoken unwed. It's that's just the way. See, I thought you might kind of title, the opinion of your title in the house of lords career achievements. But it's Yorkshire it tissue share. And I think it said I mean, the I never used the title, which is suppose, there's always a parchment, which is always slightly awkward about spices Baroness shit. It seems. Seems a little bit. Pretentious seems outdated. It's I mean, it's a it's a real privilege to be in the house of lords. But I'm not convinced that the day that for these titles, hasn't really come and gone. And, and I'm also quite awkward about the fact that, you know, in the in the house of Louis, your addressed as my lady, and, you know, when you're address, as my lady by the people in the canteen, and in the tea rooms, and by the attendance, I prick, and it's probably the, the working class woman in me, who finds all little bit uncomfortable. Well, let's go back to the start, what sort of child, we you. And most of whom were you growing up in so I was quite dose. I'll child mom said, I didn't give any trouble until I go into my twenties. I was a reader. I was obsessed with devouring book after book after book, Enid Blyton famous five and secret seven all the kind of childhood books. I was a huge comic reader. And family photographs away. We're all stood in a line, and I've got my comic in my left hand, so it will be from being oh damn day. I mean, the, the kind of COMEX you grew with. But there's always that little always something in my in my left hand web trying to hide it Bama bag, which clearly shows that I've been dragged into this photo. And it's broken into my sense of what I was getting on with. And give me a sense of locations, where is this? Vulne raising a tiny little place called us pre. I'm the second of five girls born in traditional Muslim Pakistani migrant family. It was like it was like Jane Allston story. It was like pride and prejudice in many ways. We had this quite overpowering mom who had a clear sense of what she wanted from us. A dad who was really quite fun and quite passive most of the time. And then these five goes everyone who had a huge opinion and incredibly loud, noisy home. Well, lots of discussion took place. You said you move the knew what she wanted of you what did she want to? Well, I always said that. I'm now nearly fifty and I'm the generation of Asian women who grew up where both your career and your husband chosen by mother. She said stole out very early on for us. And now when I talk to her she's in her seventies. And she clearly felt that she'd failed by not having a male. Child. And I remember by the time the fifth, go came along people came round to, to express their sorrel at what had happened. It felt like a bereavement rather than a birth. She definitely felt that she'd failed by not having a male child. You feel seeing, I think because. Dad and mom in their own ways, were very strong willed. We saw it from the outside, and we felt like there was a bit of a battle going on with the outside world. I think internally we were too focused on on what will we going to do about it? And so one of the strongest things that I had from my mom growing, what you've got to be better than the boys and she made it clear, very early on that, she expected, all of us to go cheetah Vesti to bring her back, a degree. She calls her degree. She's five degrees on her wall. We've never seen them their hair achievements. She expected each of us to have a clear profession. So, you know, I remember being sat down and saying, you know, doctor lawyer accountant pharmacist teacher which, you know and what we ended up having to follow lawyer lawyer, and, and I think so, because there was such a huge expectation of what we could be. I'm s was we did have a bit of a chip on our show that she had a chip on her show. The we did feel like we have to prove something we had to fight. Find a way to, to matter in a way that we didn't when we were born. And we did feel that people who had huge male families somehow started off in life much for the along the success line than we did. I was said, with goes in that society, you born on the wrong side of the balance sheet. So boys scene is assets goals are seen liabilities. Boys scene is contributors goes, a seniors takers boys. This scene is carrying on her goals scene is carrying shame, and that right from day, one trying to jump to the side of the balance sheet to say, I might to matter and I have equal worth and value. What were your parents doing then when they came to Britain? So dad came here as a very young man to work in the rag mills in Yorkshire in the early sixties my grandfather had come here in the fifties and he was working in the rag mills as well. And then mom joined him later on after she married, and she was a traditional housewife, and then when I was. Almost as things got better because dad went from being a mill work to a bus conductor and then went on to become a bus driver, and then drove a cab for awhile, and then started a small manufacturing business, and then made into huge success. What was school like and how fall were they insult because this your bring the early eighties? Yes, seventy eight seventy eighties school was. Was make st- in a way that I suppose the community that I was born and raised now isn't the town was less divided. I think but the racism was the even then people now say that the racism is there because the town is divided and I said, well, no, the racism, was there when the town was allegedly United. I remember children being taken out of the Junius school that I went to because there were too many Asian kits. They were the white kids were taken often schooled in local pobox for a while, a public suitably, subsequently been sold and ten into a sketch. So it's all very kind of surreal happen to the town. And I, you know, we just accepted that racism was part and parcel. Ulysses on funded by this packing. Bashing was just something that happened. You knew that certain times of the Sunday at the end of the school, there will be a big fight, you know, schools with large white kids would come over that be a huge fight usually on racial. Lines, you would have to run very, very fast to make sure you stayed out of it. I gather you also, as well as the kind of racial grief that you got, you get cool spec for in classes, and that's that can be quite cutting. I had terrible eyesight I used to really thick glasses. So used to get called jam jaws and spec as all the time school wasn't really somebody who took much care of what I looked like I make open clothes, and hair religious, bypassed me. So I was just yeah it was the go with the mono Brown big glasses, and as my as my husband likes it 'cause my husband and I were at school together. And he said, you just looked like overly Betty. That was it is actually a photograph of me from school. We, she's got pinned on the wall. Because my husband and I didn't marry until we were enough. It is kids often. Why do you get together at school? In his did your. She looked like at schools. Big photo, man. He says she obvious. She was so the most unapproachable own interested girl in school. He said, you know, she was top of a full complete nerd, if you ever approach for anything she was for a fight. And she looked likely Betty, so. No, it wasn't happening at school. You up for fight. Yeah. And it was usually the boys if I felt that somebody had kind of stepped on my toes. If I felt that somebody heads stepped out of line if I felt that they'd made a comment, which was sexist all racist. You know I was out for fights and I go into a lot of fights at school. I go to triple trouble in the way that I had a mazing results at the end of school. But just wouldn't wouldn't bite my tongue when I saw something which I felt was was an acceptable with Rome was ROY. Wrong. I'm among would just say, to me, why is it that you're always why is it your issue? Why can't you just step aside? Why can't you just leave? It be why does it have to be your problem and why couldn't because I used to say what if isn't my problem whose aid? And if everybody took the same decision of saying, well, it's not my problem. I'll just sit this one out nobody ever do anything. So therefore, I'm not prepared to sit out, you know, and, and she still said, even when I went into politics, she mom was hugely against my decision to enter politics. I used to if not me, then who mum. And if not now then when these two statements I made to all the time, I mean that's speed to do. And I would say to, you know, a man that he took on, and he took up that say to tell me the answer to this, because I you saying to me that it's, you know, we have to be so selfish so cowardly it's always about me and mine rather than actually it's the right thing to do. You talked about how your father kind of gradually climbed kind of Seychelles larger removed from, you know, working in a factory to being a bus nurtured, a taxi driver in into his own business. And one of the things that's fascinated people is the tradition of Asian films, which have supported Margaret Thatcher in the idea of supporting small business people, I gather your mum was a supporter of Margaret Thatcher. But your father voted labour wonder about the politics that you agreeing up in your house. So my dad comes from a really, really poor family. I mean incredibly poor family of the house would fall down in the job when it rained. Whereas my mome relatively comes from a middle class family, a my mom is like the alternate Tiga, mummy aspirational pushy, mom. So she was very ambitious. And she loves this kind of story of Margaret Thatcher, this green grossest daughter who'd made it to, to, to prime minister, she loves the way she looked. She looked away she spoke and she lived the authority around her. Whereas I think my dad was just. A trade union man from being in the mills, and he went eventually from being a mill work to a mill owner, but I don't think that ever left him. So, yeah, we had really interesting conversations around the around the dinner table. Interesting will heated interesting because I think Todd had no choice but to really go along with. He's incredibly billionaire six women our on the table and all of turned out very differently. You know, even politics now, I remember being in government and finding my older sister on had decided to park on a picket line when the teachers were on strike say, seriously, you're going to do this. You know what I'm in the coalition government and your about going to picket line. And having to really heat dog with the wonderful thing about growing up in even now is that there are so many opinions and each one of us is prepared to make an argument to make sure that our opinion is valid were have you ever change your opinion on the basis of one of your siblings or parents agree with you? And that's where the challenges for us because none of us ever decides that we will. Often when we have disagreements in discussions. I don't know why we have these discussions because at the end of it, nobody ever backstabbing, nobody ever says you actually, you know, I think you're right on this. When did you first get involved in politics, and low level politics over college student politics? I was involved in about sixteen recall age back in the day. I was president of the students union. So, you know, politics was always older. My younger sister now was saying that she was recently clearing out old school books. She says she was going through them. I should written about one of her siblings and punish it interviewed one of her siblings, which was was me, apparently and should put in that the age of nine when my sister grows up, she's going to be prime minister. So some thing must've triggered at the age of nine at which point I'm must have been fifteen fourteen fifteen. Did you remember wanted to be prime minister? No. And I don't ever remember that interview other come from sation, or even wanting to being politics at that stage. Age from being in student politics recall edge to actually deciding to run to be an MP in it wasn't uselessness. It was in two thousand and five what's the journey in between from one to the other? So I followed my mom's Pat, went on to become a lawyer married, the man that she chose for me in the end after having quite successful legal career David up divorced pump that should chose for me and restarted in life really in my thirties. I think most of my twenties and early thirties were taken with lows. Most foreign volunteering involved with the racial Justice committee at the Joseph Rowntree trust and racial Justice Quality Houses. I think, really what formed me was the color of my skin. What radicalize me was a color of my skin. What shapes my politics was around racial Justice about equality cool worth and value. But yet a lot of my twenties and thirties were also spent building a business living in quite a spos- now looking back on it all in traumatic marriage. I had probably what you don't be described as a very early midlife crisis in my thirties. When I, I just felt that Britain I felt we had won the battles or most of the battles for equal value. I felt as a British Asian felt quite comfortable being in Britain, but we were heading in the right direction. Nineties, late nineties notice and, and felt that social mobility, you know, we'd all be successes of this. Great sociability story would become professionals house in the nice part of town. You know, even daft enough to go out and buy second classic cars and all of that kind of stuff. Nice all days and then September eleventh happened and it suddenly changed everything about my identity. At that moment. I stopped being a British Asian, I simply became a British Muslim, and it was almost as if we'd been set back to zero had right now you can start all over again and fight these battles all over again about who you are on what you are where you belong on. We'd grown up in a wonderfully. Neuro Muslim household. We have very strong Shia connections, very strong Sunni connections. We'd had access to the local too big deal Bundy most parents had really kind said, pit whatever bits of that you want and being Muslim had never been an issue, either at home, or the professional world, that inhabited, then certainly it became the thing that identified me, he suddenly, I want to get back to two thousand five when you're running that campaign because I that's when I, I really noticed you and I remember seeing on the news, and it was a tough campaign. I didn't think many people were just how tough it is to stand as an MP, especially as a woman, and I remember seeing a group of local Muslim Asian men, hassling news. You're out canvassing, and all these issues were brought up about the fact that you would divorced. They will make you thing about what kind of Muslim you were. What was it like? Well, general election two thousand and five Jews spray was a bizarre experience, because they there were so many different aspects might identify that, that would question in traditional areas where we would return strong, conservative voters. I had people in the doorstep saying, I'm gonna vote for Packy. I'm sorry account vote for you, because of who you are. And it was not bluntly put into way you kind of well, at least, I know where I stand, and then in the traditional Muslim communities, where I'd been born and raised not really been a good. Go, you know kinda kept my head down even during all the kind of troll. More of, of personal lives at add managed to kind of keep a steady exterior, they'll conversations about whether it was appropriate for Muslim women to be leadership positions. And so I would say, you know, it was too white for half of them to female for the other and really it was, I was, I was going to be able to do anything about either of them. So it was really bruising my labor opponent at the time played to all of this. She's also significant because one of the big issues, which people have talked. Out not going back to nineteen and The Satanic Verses row was away in some of these northern towns, which had large labor voting Asian Muslim communities. There was a blowing turned to a lot of the divisions of the female oppression subsequently to the sexual grooming, as long as the vote was was turning out to be caught in the middle of it. Somebody stunned, I think what was fascinating for me. Was that my opponent was Asian to he was Muslim? I remember one incident specifically where it was an a community event and the men and women segregated and I decided to go to that men's whole, and what he stood in my way and said, this is a men's whole allowed in here. And I just remember rolling my eyes at him and somebody who was with me, just kind of pushed into inside, and we walked in and says, you know, grow up, stop being idiot. But I just remember thinking this is so difficult because this still he, he's playing to this sense of, you know, Muslim, we shouldn't be in leadership positions. I remember on the day that the. Result came on the night that the result came out. I, we got the result in the early hours of the morning, I done typical optimistic thing of why gonna win Jews break. So we're loads of national media there, because I'd managed to convince this going to be conservative gain, after I don't know how many decades and as we walked out, I was met by quite large group of Asian men, who would me out of the town whole, and I remember walking out in this. Boo went to my dad was to next put his arm round me that you are right. And I was to you asked me I was. All right. Then you test me. I was. All right. And this camera was thrusting my face. And this generally says, how'd you feel? I just remember welling up thinking, I'm going to cry on national TV this is all I'm ever going to be remembered for. I just think how do you think feel you know, this is two in the morning three in the morning. Whatever it was. Booby booed by whole bunch of people have just lost elation Zemun child for nearly two weeks. And I just remember saying. That time that, however, much it sticks in people's throat that a working class Brown was Lynn woman would like to stand in leadership position. You know, whether you're y almost whoever you want sticks in your throat when it's now happened and there's no going back from this. I also wonder if it's given you the strength because of what you experienced back then to deal with the, the sort of hostility you get now around Islamaphobia, even though it was coming from the Muslims at the time. Well, I, I mean I was you may remember I was egged by members of extremist groups in Luton when I was out campaigning told me that I was an appropriate Muslim because I wasn't dressed properly, and you know, and, and I remember, you know, every, you know let's call the police walk win. I remember getting so angry. It was one of those moments say, if not me, then who tend on my Mahela walked towards them, how day us to me like this and having a confrontation with them. And I now think occasion. When I the trolls. Sections of the politics being terribly islamophobic, nasty about various letters, that you guys go to clue how many battles I fought to get here. This is not going to make me go away. You know, I've been literally been in physical altercations from the age of about fourteen. I'm not gonna I'm not going to back away from a fight if I think it's the right fight. Hello, and welcome to how I found my voice, I'm far at producer of his putt cost before we get to the main conversation. I wanted to tell you about all sponsor road microphones. If you're interested in making a professional signing podcast road microphones, make it easy to create content rather than baffled technology. The road Custer pro allows for full studio. Presenters easy connections for phone calls, and much more. It's a complete podcast predictions to you in one. Just take it out the books. Connect your Mike and hit record the road Custer pro- professional podcasting made easy, check it out at road, Kosta dot com. That's our OD E, custody dot com. What really came across at the time was your personal bravery, and your commitment, and when David Cameron gave you a period, which enables you to come into government. I wonder if there was a part of you that thought maybe I should have run again, as an MP and giving it another shot to get in elected way, the walls for very long time I was really uncomfortable. I felt I was in the wrong place. I felt that my style of politics, wasn't suited to the house of lords. I remember being on the front bench and I remember being at the dispatch box and be quite confrontational bucking lawyer phase, this was crossing the, the bulbs and one of my colleagues took in my dress and said, I just think she's just stop that this kid he took him addresses. This is not the way we do things in the house of lows gentler, fall, politics and our Lord's. It was a much older house. It was a it was a, a less. Tick house. I mean I was young. I was a baby of the house. I mean the average age in the house of lords is, is sixty nine I remember people chuntering behind me when I took to the dispatch Boesch, I was a, an upstart how somebody who probably didn't know her place. I was this, you know, working class woman from Yorkshire at the age of thirty six derived straight onto the front bench and straight into the shadow cabinet and that must have put a lot of back. So David Cameron talk to you about because he'll be Slee wanted you that and wanted, you very publicly and whether you I'm different about whether you window dressing for the conservative posse. So dividend I had worked together for number of years before he appointed me to the house of lords on. We'd be now we'd come pain together. We'd been in big town hall meetings where we'd had very Frank conversations. There was an authentic in the engagement that we were having with communities. It wasn't all samosas and T. And we have the same values and let's shake hands. And can you vote for a welcome to your mosque? I mean really was? As genuine authentic. Robust sometimes fractious, but it was a genuine engagement, and I think he found that quite fascinating. It was a different form of politics in the run-up to the election run-up to the twenty ten election. I actively became his warmer pack to rally after rally after rally where would kind of get the crowd going. And ultimately, I'm campaign that. That's really what he saw surprises me is that David was very clearly where that I was rooted in communities that I was not prepared to hold my peace when I believed in something that I was going to be true to myself, how was outspoken, opinionated. But why he expected when I got into government and certainly have like an opinion bypass becomes some kind of passage placid member of the cabinet. I'm not sure. And I think he found I thought he enjoyed and I sincerely think he did enjoy the fact that there was a robust debate shadow cabinet, which is what I I came into. But I think eventually, it was the fact that maybe I was too often to call too outspoken for, for the relationship to continue in the way that it did. When would you say? I think the Munich speech was a moment of split demoting. So in two thousand eleven I did a speech which said Islam phobia, Pasadena table test. He wasn't comfortable with that speech reminded what you meant by the kind of ova Paki bashing racism that are grown up with within the seventies and eighties was probably much easier to deal with. But what I was seeing in terms of this new form of racism, Islam phobia, was that it was found in editorial rooms and think tanks in policy circles in political parties. And yes, respectable dinner tables, where people would sit around in very genteel surroundings, talking about how they view them Muslim neighbors. And you presumably were at dinner party lighter, I saw this over and over again. I would sit there where people would have conversations about Islam and Muslims. And then turned to me this off. Course this is a peaceful religion. Nothing. Have you suddenly discovered in the room, you know? And if I wasn't in the room, where would this? Compensation have gone. I sat in too many rooms with too many conversations happened about a community and those conversations will misunderstood best malicious at west if you presume, you try to have these conversations privately with both of the prime minister and unin cabinet before you made that Munich speech and I had, but I think the sense was that haven't been properly cleared. And I think what was meant by that. Was that lots of people haven't had the hands on it and had managed to haven't managed to kind of squash it. And I remember on the day that I did that speech was in LeicesteR. So brief the speech out it hit the front pages Downing Street than went to overdrive this haven't been cleared, and they wanted to start changing the speech even bits that had already been briefed. And we're now in the public domain. I wasn't happy to try and change the speech at that stage and it couldn't be pulled. I remember my husband was in Yorkshire at the time he drove down to less to which I hadn't realized he was going to do, and he just walked in and said to the team, I need everybody out, I just need to speak to her and. He said to me, look, you've wanted to do the speech for years, you've seen this growth of Islam phobia. You've talked to me about how you worry about how punishes it is, where is starting to take hold. And, and he said, you believe in it, and I said, I do and he said, well, you've never ever stepped away before. So he just gonna shoot yourself out to the noise and just go in there and just be yourself. And then whatever the consequences will will deal with it. And I think it was that moment where I suppose he helped me find my voice, again, because I'd be battered literally for twenty four hours in the run-up to that speech to change it to pull it to, you know, to mend it, too. And I you know, I was starting to did the because the pressure was so ver well-meant presumed, you knew it was a tipping point. Once you get to that person that if you give this speech, something I didn't do have broken in your relationship with the parties, which declared Solti. I it was the leader of the policy, and I think border than that. I think I'd, I'd had my card marked by that point then because. Yeah. Because I think I was basic saying this is who I am. This is what I stand for even when you tell me to, to, to back off, and, you know, spout Knowlson. So the nonsense, I'm going to remain true to myself, because if I start to sell out in within the first six months of my government career, I'm just gonna do nothing else, but keep selling out, and I can't do the I have to remain true to myself because I you know, politics Amira is a awful, godless Solis world. Why would you enter this world? It is nasty. It is lonely and I thought to myself, if I'm down here inland. Maoz away from my family. I'm missing out and all the quality time with my kids growing up. You know, I'm hated and loathed by lose members of the public, and I could be out in a private sector job, you know, having a better quality of life than this, then I'm going to make it count. And the only way you make it count is by remaining. True to yourself. And and treating each day that you have in that privileged position of thority a day to try and make a difference rather than a day to survive. So you can what you wear to the next job. You all very honest about its buffet within the conservative party called for an inquiry. You spoke in the past about the party's morally indefensible, position, newsreel, Gaza war in twenty fourteen people think, but how come you could make your piece for the movies years? What was different in twenty ten during two thousand and seven to two thousand fourteen which was my time you shed a cabinet and cabinet I fought from within. So I was never making my piece, I was just making peace publicly occasionally things would get neat. And, you know, rows add had internally would become public an I didn't do that. So there was a lot of leaking that was done about me when I was in cabinet and shadow cabinet. You know he thought. I have I can't go by suspicions, but I want to say I think post two thousand fourteen I think saying in public what I'd be saying in private. So it's no shock to any of my colleagues. I mean, the issue around, you know, having changing the face and the faces within the party changing making sure we have more Deva's people coming into the party, making sure that we have a diverse conservative headquarters, which is truly Representative of, of all of Britain's all of this was was that I was doing both as chairman than the what that I did. I mean, the foreign office. You know, one of the things I talked about consistently was this thing that I called Heineken diplomacy the diplomacy that reaches the parts that other diplomacy cannot reach. I let's find braids who have deep connections, language, cultural understandings of places around the world, and let's make sure there are diplomats rather than the man from overseas. And there was quite an interesting change in the crude -ment around foreign, communist fish was present you'll saying that dates to around the time that you were trying to push this thinking I was. Constantly pushing it. So there was a huge amount of blockade minority ethnic talent in the lower echelons of the foreign office. But once we got into the senior civil service, this seemed to be almost a point where they'd be filtered out on what when I started looking at the recruitment processes where I realized was that, that didn't quite fit our mold. So, so everything we do in our recruitment process, was encouraging people to behave like on from Oxford, who's I'm on overseas. And I was saying, that's exactly what we shouldn't be doing. What we have is this concept where I calling Heineken diplomacy us difference for better diplomacy rather than turning them mall, into clones of home free, because that's not going to give his great diplomacy. Take you back a step because you've say much about the importance of being authentic and honest, and they came at time when you had to public and break with doing things within the party, because you felt it wasn't being listened to and going back to that election, campaign when you ran as an MP, one of the accusations made was that there was homophobic stuff in the campaign. In leaf it's put out designed to appeal to a kind of conservative Muslim electric. How'd you look back on? That was regret a huge great. And it's something that I've apologize for. And it's something that I have taken ownership of that was the first election campaign that I had ever for most of my literature was written by my campaign team of my election agent. I was led by that. And I what you believe I was led by what I was being told would work in this constituency. And I really feel that had I had more experienced that time I would have said hold on a minute. This is not the way I want to fight and election campaign, having said that I still felt it was my campaign. I put my name to it. It was my leaflet and I have to take ownership for what was setting that gum pain. I went back on a journey of where I felt I had learned my homophobia. At what point did I realize that being gay was wrong? What point did I think I had to pass judgment on what point did I think that section twenty eight was a good thing to have in schools? Sex was never spoken about. Oh, it was never spoken about in the misjudge. So the Madras says on the mosques, I mean, never mind gay sex. You didn't even talk about straight sex, and the first time I started to kind of understand issues around sexuality, and sexual in the public demand was in the party, it was acceptable to be homophobic, within the conservative party. And I say that I learned my homophobia in the religion of the conservative party. So what was fascinating was that, in many ways, it was actually conservative politics, that framed my homophobia, rather than religion that framed, my homophobia, I think, for me, this journey doesn't just end with saying, well, I got it wrong and I'm sorry for that. This journey has to then project forwards for me. And one of the things that I'm involved in at the moment is researching documentary, which will be coming out later on this year around how to be Muslim and gay. And it's fascinating, the con- the issues run into section -ality the stuff that I'm hearing from people who aren't struggling with their Muslim -ness of being gay, but actually gayness so be Muslim, and how both. Th- communities. They're fighting these battles about saying I am who I am. Can you not subject, your version of my identity onto me, but allow me to be myself I've different question that sort of connect to that. And I was speak woman. More self of Indian Muslim heritage. Every so often, you have these dilemmas about how you dress on how it's going to be seen, and you walked into your first cabinet meeting initial armies, and that is a really big decision. I think for any woman to make why did you choose to do it? And what reaction did she get? So for me probably wasn't as big a decision until after taking and realize what a big decision it was. So you remember the coalition took ages to get together. It wasn't just we fought the election the next day when you who was going to be prime minister, and we'd have this exhausting campaign, and I haven't been shopping for nothing. And I just remember waking up on the morning of the cabinet opening my wardrobe because the whole I don't do close thing is still that in my life. It relieves, the last thing on my mind. My in the sister would always get muscial vodka muses made for me. She's, she's great design and fashion. And it was the only thing I had in my wardrobe which was new impressed. So I thought, okay, well aware that then no pointed occurred to me that this was going to be probably one of the biggest political moments walking down the street a statement because I wish our commute anyway, because I think for years, and the conservative party at wash lark AMIS at one at the dispatch box in the summer at one saris and all sorts of things to balls and dinners and fundraisers, just wasn't a big deal for me because I wore these codes anyway. But it was only as started walking down Downing Street that all these photographers are realize, oh my God. I didn't realize it was somebody over there. And then it was can you take your coat off? And I thought, wow. They're not really. They have probably seen me show. Archimedes for the first time, even though the whole of my cabinet colleagues of see me show, Markham's, lots of times. And so it was that moment where I suppose it was just me being me. I think the shaft of that was, yes. Lots people kind of said, well, you actually owned your own identity, but I also had lots of young, you know, Asian girl saying you do realize my dad now gives me grief, because every time I say, no, I caught way Barclays to work says she was it to work. She was too extreme way. I'm not sure I kind of helped the calls for lots of young, give it a good explanation of white wasn't that thought through statement. I mean if I give you my comparison, I remember, he's twilla chevelle copies to six four and I remember my brother saying to me, you brave, but it was like a statement saying, I'm traditional even though I didn't mean it that way, it was part of me just trying to say what I'm British Asian. And then when I went from this today program, it's a research when I was in use trainee. I remember I used to shove Archimedes sometimes and I look back and I, I am Shema mazed. I did it because this was the early nineties and I wonder what? They thought of me, you know, people like road little was the duct t- editor. Yeah. I sometimes think I'm not sure if I should have thought, more Catholic and yes, all these things matter. And they mustered away for a Muslim woman in a way that they don't matter. It's actually a double in section isn't it into of being Asian on the burden of being slim, and, and being a woman as well the triple burden it is? But I also think that if you're comfortable in that, as long as it's an authentic version of you, then there's no reason why we shouldn't embrace all aspects of who we on Sunday, iphone during the early Cameron era. This was something that was absolutely not questioned or frowned upon. Maybe it wasn't that somebody else's mind. I never felt the fans that it was ever questioned. I wonder if the big difference between if you were hit job, because I feel, that's yeah. Even though, it's, it's very acceptable generally in public life. Now, I'm a few older than you what has been striking for me, has been the growth of people wearing the job as it is a visual. Symbol isn't it because it's a statement of a kind. Yeah. I think the only time I ever wore the that kind of job or a some sort of a head covering during my time in government was when I went to see the pope will you have to. There was a moment when having never really veiled. I've aled when I when I led a delegation to the to the Vatican. The decision to resign from cabinet over the is Royal Gaza conflict. How did you decide that? I mean my resignation was probably the hardest decision of ever had to make because the consequences of that I knew would be felt in so many different ways. You know, there was my personal relationship with David one of the things he finds most difficult to deal with, was he thought we had a friendship which went beyond just work in his colleagues and that, you know, why would I do this to him? I think he took it quite personally. But I also know that there was a lot of work that I was doing in government, which would and did stop, once I left all the that would done on, you know, Islam phobia, for example, you know, I set the cross Gamal can grow and onto Muslim hatred. I was the first one to bring forward the concept of a monitoring organization subsequently funded the first monitoring organization founded set remembering Trebinje. It's you know did the expose ripoff of the big lunch and such the big if Dr there was so many initiatives that were being setup in fact often. Now, my colleagues will talk about them at the dispatch boxes to what the government is doing on issues around Muslim communities in every project. They talk about is one that I said to back in twenty ten eleven twelve thirteen fourteen. So, you know, almost nothing new happens after that lots of work did come to commit to a halt, and that did worry me, but I at that moment in time spent nearly three weeks speaking to colleagues big to the prime minister up policy on Gaza made no sense. So is the minister for human rights. I was the minister of the UN. I was minister for the international criminal court had spent years going around the world. Advocating this clear, human rights policy that Britain ad and then it suddenly seemed that when we were dealing with this war in Gaza. Everything we believed in British finally use human rights international Justice accountability was just shelved. It was almost as if the rules didn't apply anymore, and I could make no sense of what this was about. And I also realize very quickly that not only will we not prepared to do anything about stopping what was going on in Gaza now and only will we not even prepared to find the words to condemn what was going on in Gaza, we had no political will to do anything about it afterwards. So we abstained on a Human Rights Council resolution on accountability for war crimes on both sides post, the Gaza conflict, we didn't even take part in it. We had no political will to rebuild Gaza. We made noises about settlements, but we did absolutely nothing to stop them. And as far as the illegals, of course, whatever we said publicly about the two state solution the window of opportunity for the two state solution was closing, I think it's now closed and we were simplest. Standing by with the rhetoric of a policy, which was simply a fig-leaf knowing that the reality on the ground was changing, and we were going to up -solutely nothing about it. And I think this is a huge injustice of which we are apart. And I was not prepared to put my name to it. Even though this was the most amazing job to sit at the cabinet table. You know, the little girl was both to pin the tiny house in Yorkshire, who made it to the top table. It wasn't more important than being true to myself. And I haven't looked back at that day with regret not for a single moment. It was absolutely the right into. It was a way of saying this is who I am. This is what I stand for. And no amount of power position is ever going to corrupt who I am people divisions of the toxic level of political discourse. British no. On a lot of them blamed, David Cameron for holding that e referendum never mind, whether or not he ever thought he'd have to hold them because what he thought elections might be do you blame him for holding that referendum. I blame him for holding a referendum, too soon, had we spent a decade educating people about Europe had we spent a decade, not playing to the far right? And the anti-europe sentiment in the way that we did. And had we made it clear that this was going to be a grown-up debate about the pros and cons of being within the European Union, rather than some bizarre nationally, stick, racist debate, which is what it became which meant even people like me, who you're a skeptic found themselves voting remain, because I couldn't sign up to that campaign, then maybe we could have held a referendum but to do it in the way that we did without the thought being put into aids, and so quickly after twenty fifteen in action where we didn't have the time. To, to build support for genuine grow discussion on this issue. I think it was a huge mistake. You've talked about how your parents were building a house in the way that white Brits might save for a home in Spain to retard too, and your mother saying, but you might need a place that need a place to go to how do you feel about that? Whole idea now the very 'cause I knew my parents, felt the same in the seventies when Britain's very hostile. They wanted to think about the might have to go back to India, which I couldn't understand Defillo is seems more. I want you to think these ridiculous arguments that my parents were making why would, you know where it was home? Where will they ever going to go back in commerce to and yet, for the first time, you know, I I've, I've now said that, you know, protein, fifty I'm worrying mom's worry, I feel Britain's going backwards. I've I feel it's hostile the direction of politics worries me the discourse in our newspapers, worries me and the discrimination, which is in some ways, much more sophisticated and pernicious than it was when we will grow. Nope. Deeply disturbs me. If the one that we haven't explicitly is the flip side to that, which is when there are terrorist attacks in this country by self-styled Islamists, people say, look this problem hasn't gone away, and it's not being sold by talking about Islam affair beer. What do you say? I remember when I was in government laid out, very clearly what I think we should do to do with this issue of terrorism. A my clear argument was that we should do it without exception. Leising community you deal with what the challenges, rather than, you know, if you've got ten people who are involved in criminal activity, you don't go out and, and criminalize the rest of the community. I always sensed that their positions that government has taken have been ideological rather than pragmatic, and it's when those positions have been ideological that they've managed to alienate large sections of British Muslim communities. I write about this in extensive detail. You know, when people say, well, Muslims have got a victimhood men. Taliban, and they feel that, you know how they feel about that. You only was that are treated in this way, and I give a whole list of ways in, which in government, we exception lies British Muslim communities, and we continue to do so in policy making now, I think what concerns me about the whole war on terrorism. Is that underpinning, it all is, is this question of loyalty, where almost every British Muslim has to now take a loyalty test. You know do they condemn terrorism? Of course, the condemn terrorism, there could be subjected to it just like anybody else, you know, do they feel British to this ascribe to British values, and that really sticks in my throat because I have two grandfathers both maternal and paternal grandfather, who served in the British Indian army there were out there on the front line prepared to give their life for this concern. They hadn't even hit these shores. In fact, there were part of a colonize nation, and they were prepared to give their life for this country. You know, I've had parents who have what they're back-off for years to create, of course life for themselves. Opportunity for others as well. I've served my country at the top table. A Privy Council member of the establishment, any factor, all of that we still have to take a loyalty taste simply because a few individuals who may happen to share the faith of a billion people of which I am one have gone out and committed the most horrendous violence against a country. And for that reason I am therefore collectively accountable, and I have to take a lotta tests, and I, I just will take that loyal to test anymore. So take you about finally to the little girl who said, if not me, then, who, if not know then when you into politics, what are you gonna do now? Well, I'm back in business. I'm back in academia, and pro vice chancellor of university. I'm kind of writing, and I'm desperately trying to escape politics. But somehow, you know, politics won't let me escape because that little girl, I still somewhere deep inside me saying. If not you, then who? If not now than when, and I spend a lot of time, building new the next generation of politicians because it is a tiring space on. I really, really hope that at some point I can hand over the baton and say for the next generation to find now slightly sleeping. This podcast was made by intelligence squared. I'm smear it and the producer was far justed do subscribe, and we'd love it. If you'd rate and review it or apple podcasts.

government prime minister Britain David Cameron Yorkshire conservative party producer Mike Yorkshire Custer Gaza Archimedes Enid Blyton London Lamai Margaret Thatcher Gaza Samir Ahmed
June 18, 2020: Battle of Orgreave

Today in True Crime

00:00 sec | 4 months ago

June 18, 2020: Battle of Orgreave

"Today is Thursday June eighteenth twenty twenty on this day in Nineteen eighty-four, a miner's union strike in. Of South Yorkshire devolved into a bloody clash with local policemen, but this so called Battle of or grieve was not just an isolated incident of violence. It was the end of a heated decades long war between the miners union, and the British government, and it still reverberates through UK. Politics today. Welcomed today in true crime apar- cast original due to the graphic nature of today's crimes, listener discretion is advised. Extreme caution is advised for listeners under thirteen. Today were covering the battle of or grieve a South Yorkshire. Miners strike turned bloodbath. Now let's go back to the morning of June. Eighteenth, Nineteen eighty-four around eight a M. It was set to be a blistering summer day, but that hasn't stopped the National Union of Mineworkers from rallying nearly five thousand strikers and supporters, and marching out to the steel, corporations or grieve coking plant. The miners had been picketing for weeks already as part of an extensive nationwide effort and this after decades of conflict between the Mineworkers Union and the British government. The government had wanted to shut down the coal mines for years, but it would leave thousands of working class Britons without jobs, so the miners had put up a good fight many times by striking and shutting down the coal industry, they'd pressured the past several governments, labour and Tory, alike to keep the minds open. This prime minister Margaret. Thatcher was different. She'd stockpiled coal before they started striking meaning there efforts weren't as powerful as they'd been in the past, and now these scabs were working at the or grieve coking plant. No matter. The union was still powerful, the voice of the working Britain. They'd show Prime Minister Thatcher. What was what? I the miners formed a blockade in front of the coking plant, shutting off access before long day were facing down a group of about five thousand police officers numbers equal to their own, then the miners through a few bricks. That's when the day started to look very different from the past few weeks. The police commander at Org Reeve Assistant Chief Constable Anthony. Clement sent mounted police into the crowd and overreaction that made the angry miners, only more aggressive. They countered with a second push of their own up against that swarming tide of policemen clement responded by demanding the picketers disperse, and when they didn't, he sent in the cavalry once more this time backed by police support units. Police support units or PSU's were relatively new phenomenon in the British isles developed after riots, the beginning of the nineteen eighties, but they had earlier antecedents. They were modeled on the colonial riot. Tactics used by the Hong Kong Police Force, and as you'd expect from colonial justice. They were violent. The PS. US followed in the cavalry's is wake but towns in hand and beat down the unarmed miners who hadn't been toppled by charging horses. Most of the miners dispersed after this heading down to the village for some shade and a drink, but unfortunately the violence was far from over. The policemen stood watch over the depleted crew of strikers, and as the hours wore on, and the day got hotter. They seem to get angrier more frustrated. The remaining miners were even playing soccer the nerve, so the police started to react first, banging their shields and batons, then again with the charge cavalry followed by the PS use. The strikers fled this time, but few got far instead they fell beneath the batons of the PS. Use the beatings continued as they lay on the ground. But even then the police warrant done. They rolled their horses down to or Greek village where they were met with a few scrap metal missiles launched by picketers, then they cantered through the village, neither picketers, nor passersby were spared from the charge the streets rang out with terrified, cries, and the clattering of hooves, and like that amidst the blood and the anguish of a little Yorkshire town, the Battle of or grieve came to its sorry conclusion. Coming up the fallout from this display of state violence, the ways the miners fight reverberates through British politics today. Hi It's Vanessa. And I have some very special news to commemorate our four. Th Anniversary cast on the team behind unsolved murders are taking a closer. Look at what it takes to catch a killer. The new series called solved murders true crime mysteries, and you can only hear it on spotify. Join my dear friends, Carter and Wendy as well as an ensemble cast of voice actors, as they explore the days months, and even years leading up to a killer being caught every Wednesday. You'll wade through the details of a heinous crime track. Track? The and downs of the investigation and ultimately witnessed the closure of a seemingly uncrossable case. I'm already hooked. Each episode of solved murders please out like a classic murder. Mystery were the final reveal is nearly as shocking as the murder itself from the butcher of Plainfield Ed. Geene to America's first serial killer H H Holmes, these accounts are all real, all riveting and only available on spotify. Not Every story has a happy ending, but at least they have an ending follow solved murders, true crime mysteries free and only on spotify. Now back to the story. On June eighteenth, nineteen, eighty, four five thousand miners, and their supporters blockaded a coking plant in or grieve South Yorkshire and we're met with excessive police violence. Or what was later determined to be excessive at the time, most media reports on the strikes claimed the police had acted in self defense and responded appropriately to intimidation by thousands of strikers. The law to initially took the site of the police seventy, one of the picketers were charged with rioting and twenty four with violent disorder at a time when rioting was punishable by death. The trial quickly collapsed however, thanks to unreliable evidence, offered by the police, and slowly the law admitted that it was in fact, the police that had been in the wrong at or grieve. In June of Nineteen Ninety, one the South Yorkshire Police paid four hundred, twenty five thousand pounds in restitutions to thirty nine miners for assault, wrongful arrest, unlawful detention, and malicious prosecution and decades later in two thousand fifteen, the Independent Police Complaints Commission reported that there was evidence of excessive violence by police officers, a false narrative from police, exaggerating violence by miners perjury by officers, giving evidence to prosecute the arrested men and an apparent cover-up of that perjury by senior officers. But for many members of the National Union of Mineworkers this was scant compensation, not after everything they'd lost. The Battle of or grieve after all was just one notorious battle in a much longer bigger war. It all started in the nineteen sixties and Seventies. When the British government started to move the country away from coal mining, deeming it an inefficient fashioned business that Britain no longer needed to conduct on its own shores. The National Union of Mineworkers, however like many of Britain's industrial unions was a powerful, well organized outfit, and it effectively staunched government efforts to close England's minds. That is until Margaret, Thatcher entered the picture. She was elected prime minister in Nineteen seventy-nine largely thanks to a platform that promised an end to the government's battles with the unions, and she was determined to deliver on her promises that meant going into the fight with a plan. First dodgers government stockpiled coal. Only then did they launch their campaign to close Britain's minds? It was a clever tactic. Rendering miners strikes less useful. The government was able to keep the price of energy stable despite interruptions to production, and ultimately to hold out longer than the striking miners, the battle of or grieve was the union's last major stand against the prime minister, though their strike dragged on into nineteen eighty-five. The conservative government one, it's war. The coal industry ground to a slow halt as hundreds of mines closed across the country, thousands lost their jobs, dangerous jobs, but reliable ones with high wages and pensions. No new industry rose up to take mining's place and many of the families that used to mine are still struggling to find the pride and security. The industry wants provided. Ironically in recent years, this insecurity has increasingly lead old mining towns once bastions of Labor voters to turn Tori the Labor. Party was historically the champion of unions, and in fact form to represent the interests of laborers like minors. Wall Margaret Thatcher. A Tory destroyed British mining. The impact of these changing politics has been enormous in an historic December two thousand nineteen. Vote Labor versus Tori. It was flipped district's that provided Prime Minister Boris. Johnson a landslide win and finally assured that Britain would leave the EU. while. The Battle of or grieve is largely relegated to historical footnotes today. It's impact lives on. Thanks for listening to today in true crime, I'm Vanessa Richardson for more on the machinations of late twentieth century, British politics check out the historical figures episode on Margaret Thatcher Today in true crime, was created by Max, Cutler and his apart cast studios original. It is executive produced by Max Cutler. Sound designed by Dick Schroeder with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Carly Madden and Joshua Kern this episode of today in true crime was written by Nora Battelle with writing assistance by the Canon. I'm Vanessa Richardson. Remember to check out the new podcast series that you can only find on spotify. It's called solved murders, true crime mysteries, and it explores the days months, and even years leading up to a killer, being caught brought to you by the team behind unsolved murders. It's the perfect new true crime podcast to dive into new episodes premiere. Every Wednesday follow solved murders, true crime mysteries free and only on spotify.

Prime Minister Thatcher Britain murder spotify prime minister National Union of Mineworkers British government miners union picketers South Yorkshire Hong Kong Police Force South Yorkshire Independent Police Complaints Nineteen Ninety South Yorkshire Police Vanessa Richardson Mineworkers Union UK Clement
304. Interviews: David Duffy, CEO of CYBG

FinTech Insider

43:44 min | 1 year ago

304. Interviews: David Duffy, CEO of CYBG

"Hello. Welcome to fintech inside. I'm Simon Taylor. And I'm I'm joined by the CEO of seaway missed the David Duffy. How you doing good? Thanks to be here. Thank you so much for joining his own fintech inside. And thank you for being back on the show. You were briefly on during the H M T treasury of last Joe. So I've really good to be involved. I question before we get into the real Bank. He stuff since we're on a podcast. Yes. Do you? Listen to podcasts podcast how many favorites? I do. It's it's a mix. I have the fintech envoy role as well as the Bank roll. And I mix have fintech inside. Of course. Not just to listen to myself. But also Warton have a very good podcasts. And it's got a US dimensions like to just sit outside the world a little bit. And then I use the F T because it's highly correlated to some of the business topics. And then I tend to pick up a lot of stuff around me. But the economist will be a source of you can this the whole economists on vica, effectively, you know, you can so it's I like to just have ride and then every now and again the team sends me something interesting from Asia or somewhere around the world. I have that staple diet, and then I diversified listening. I'm commuting troubling. What's the? Yeah. I just don't have an ability to sit there vacuous in a taxi. I have to have something to distract me. But it's usually on the kyu-jin in the mornings. That's I always do podcasts. And then train journeys are a great source of time to be able to do that. Indeed. We're talking before we started about train Janez. We'll come back to but for international listeners reminders who. See why BG in virgin money? Okay. So Clydesdale Yorkshire banking group. That's dispel out. See why BG so you'd Clydesdale Bank, which is a big Scottish Bank and then Yorkshire Bank big Bank in the north of England. And what we've done is acquired virgin money, which is a a fridge branded Bank and three of them come together. And what you've got is the sixth largest Bank in the UK. So crafted from the combination of those three with a big position mortgages. But I was the whole SME capability as well to very complimentary banks, very little redundancy products. They had products we. We had put them together and go to tastic opportunity with scale distribution technology, and the brand and we can talk about this lately. I think it's interesting we've seen historically in the UK market you see bikes like sometime there, especially but also Sabadell and others have become quite proficient at acquiring sort of several regional banks and collecting them into one. We also saw a little bit with LBJ buying congratulated sort of financial crisis. But also, releasing the efficiencies from that. And getting the dream is always haunt. So let's step through just like integration. What does what does that mean? What does that journey? Look like, and how you thinking about that given away you are in that journey. Sounds like a regular question. It's a lot easier than some people might think when you do an integration. It's usually systems and big platforms and gets complexity and the beauty of this transaction is that we have no real systems integration. So you're talking about an effect customer transfers to platforms. They have a great credit credit card platform, they had a much bigger business, and they put on a great platform. So we'll transfer our customers onto that platform. Oh, I see we have a big mortgage platform, which can take the capacity. So we will transfer as customers come onto our platform. So think of it as papering customers from one platform to another, but no platform integration. So that takes probably half of the threat, you would have had risk and complexity integration. The other great advantage. We have is the two cultures are highly synonymous. So they're both customer obsessive. They both have a tech DNA built into how to deliver that to customers and putting those together had the multi in the room last week as the first leadership combined entity and have to say, it was I couldn't tell the difference. Twenty one versus the other. So that's an enormous advantage because that's your DNA. That's the core culture the Bank, and it's very very natural to switch between the two. I think that's interesting because when organizations combine the fair is whether a two jobs there is now one, but the reality is also a more customers to go around. So how he found sort of bringing that sort of human element together. I think we communicate to the whole Bank every week in video and written format, and then I tour constantly I was saying to you earlier, I'm every location. What we I think you communicate with honesty starting point. There will be job losses. We've advertised those, but we'll try and manage it through attrition, but we've focused on his that's that's part of this. But the goal to deliver the best rated Bank in the UK for customer services. The best brand employer of choice, all those those lofty ambitions, the real tangible achievable, so whilst on the one hundred have to do some things which can be a little bit negative try to mitigate them, but they're massively outweighed by the enormous. Of the combination. I think asked what excites me when I look at the virgin brand synonymous with really cool stuff. Right. So I'm virgin wreck colds, I was I'm freely admit, I'm enough for the line. I think it said different experience in the something that they do. And if I may be so bold to give a personal opinion. I still never quite lived up to it on the banking site. But the I've really loved the your publicly communicating intent to do that. But my question is how do you even start with that? How do you go about making something that was historically quite dull and boring everyday like banking on making that something that can feel like? Wonderful and differentiated in some way. Yeah. It's a great question. So virgin money is apron that was in banking in the family virgin breads, we're looking at the brand as more of a lifestyle brand. So it's not synonymous typically with banking. And if you look at the broader group, it's much more a disruptor fund, as you say it folks, totally on the experience it's coming up to fifty years old next year in what we've got is massive investment from galactic spaceships you see to nineteen new hotels for big cruise ships massive investment in all the different. They're buying probably flyby in the UK full national UK airline. In addition diversion, Atlantic thereby trains, and in the UK, they have the mall. So now in the US says, a massive growth of the brand and investment in the brand on experience and customer value. We also have open banking all the topping there. What we seize the opportunities to be national under that brand. Less banking more lifestyle. It's a really offering a range of activities not just banking titties being able to take up to sixty group companies into our banking platform to offer services such as opening account, and you can get virgin active membership or you can you maybe you can go to the moon. You can can stay in hotel. You can fly in a plane and uniquely in banking. We're going to have a loyalty program that they're developing now. So hopefully that complete successfully not is all of your things that you have in your life from virgin will count for value and give you value back. Nobody in the UK can offer that combination of open banking platforms integrated in your single brand across the platform of banking products. And with the loyalty program, very unique. I think there aren't many examples possibly ex, but there aren't many examples of whether it's been done. Well, so I think it is quantum bishops for that reason. But also when now when a new world monzo just passed one point five million customers in the UK stallings well over half a million on the way to I think seven hundred and fifty thousand even knew entrance like Plum. A chat bought through Facebook messenger over three hundred thousand. Is the goal for you guys to be acquiring new to Bank customers. Do you think the existing customers will love the service you're bringing because this feels very lifestyle almost older generation sort of mid working age generation rather than young is that a fair assessment. It's it's massive mix because you've got retailing SME. So most of what you're talking about as competitors. Don't have SME really it takes a long time to build that. And I think we have one hundred eighty years of deep history, and that so you have those kind of multigenerational relationships, but we expect to acquire new Bank very quickly and in significant scale to give an example, we built a B brands are digital brand for CBGB's be. And if you look at that, it is over two point two billion of deposits, the entire customer base is primary Bank account, and they have multiple products. Now, all of the competitor universe in the new banks are single product, really substance. What level of primary Bank? You know? I don't buy customer volume in numbers. I asked profitability of customer, and who is primary backed the two simple questions if I'm an investor. I look at it that way how many of your customers are primary Bank at how many of them are profitable. If you look at what we have because we have the full suite. We have the national brand we have every product capability we have the leading tech stuff. So we were I to open a PI. I agree. I check imaging we're going to deploy deploy world class technology in a ubiquitous brand with every single product. And we've proven we can do it faster than all the news and away. So I think our growth will be massive in the new space, but it lost also be across the full suite of 'Same and Rita not limited to particular product or a particular account. I find that exciting as observe what I see is. I think rail ambition coming from your direction, but also the challenge of buying now definitely moving into the SME space, more and mole and also. They're because they've built a very modern platform from the very bossom. I think Mojo published economics that it's something like fifteen pounds to acquire a customer and five pounds a year to service on the seeing an average income customer and just a current account of sixty battles the profitability that the unit economics even on their existing book is phenomenal. And they don't have to do to really push harder installed cross selling, but they've they've focused on on that one thing. But yet that some years away from it. So observer of the market, I think is a real opportunity to sort of push back into that. So do you think it's going to become a competition about price or service, increasingly because I think the last ten years the price comparison websites very much, you know, it's one hundred and fifty pounds to switch. Its we've got the best rates in the mall kit is it now a service game, more and more. I think it absolutely will be service, but it's going to be combined with price, and it's going to be combined with convenience. So you need all three go to have a brilliant service, which is. Deploring the world class technology to make that possible. But you're also going to have to have the experience which includes physical a bit wary of the pure play digital models. I think there's the challenges have been a fantastic experience for a lot of people in building challenging the business and building new ideas. But you know, at the end of the day, you have to be able to provide tickly in a world of cyber and all that you have to be able to provide comfort of physical not like the old ranch style. But as a place to go, and touch and feel and get advice and understand your Bank with world class technology with a phenomenal experience in the access to your products challenge point. Yes. In the world of Amazon. Do I still need the physical brunch? I grant you buying goods is quite different to buying a house and seeing post, and but can I have a human relationship without having physical presence. You can but the count be exclusive one or the other so zone. They've they've gone to whole foods. They started putting stores all over the place that talking about bringing stories in the UK. So it is about understanding your customer, and in banking banking is not buying toys on Amazon, it is about life and meaning of credit and protection of your wealth and trust in your finances. And you absolutely have to have a physical dimension. We put a big four story building in market street in Birmingham, and is in in the the main streets in Manchester. We don't put them in there. Still Bank branch activities they are about the brand their lifestyle their co working spaces interesting if you do yoga eight in the morning in Manchester view. One thing. I may not do as a CEO. But. Yes. Mammals lycra, we know this. But but effectively what that branch does is acts for SME's and primary sort of capacity as a co working space as an education space as a as a learning space in general, and that's very different purpose. So I would say the physical pieces important in that context in your community as well. As brilliant technology inside that store, and in general, and the experience of value and service, you mentioned as a couple of times, and I think that's a really interesting sex because I look at the small business sectors. Probably the most under served in the past couple of decades in my somebody who's Paul founded a small business grown into a medium sliced won the the Bank. Account offerings have been around historically, I'll typically consumes Bank account with a with a fee for the privilege of being a business. How do you is it is it the physical presence? Or is this stuff that you can do inside the product is well kind of beyond the lifestyle and physical presence thinking about those things because I you know, you mentioned. Open banking, for instance, increasingly small businesses living there live inside their accounting package. They that's the dashboard on on life can afford to make payroll quick check, the accounting package, not so much the Bank, and is open banking threat or an opportunity in that instance. I think it's a huge opportunity for us. If I look at the retail versus me, and you talk about, you know, some examples of sixty pounds or whatever it is. We have many thousands of pounds deposits primary banking catching so you have a very profitable and attractive business. There we provide lots of services and retail SME is quite different tends to be liability lead. So the estimates tend to have deposits with you. And then borrow at the right time. They can be very seasonal where they need an overdraft. They tend to be in the small space, which is where we operate. Also, the owner of a business in the highstreet pharmacy or doctor's journey. They have a family, and they have a retail need. They have a property need. They have a business blowing. It's it's always been. The fallacy of the big Bank rhetoric is that there's an estimate, and as retail customer, there isn't the small business customer who lives their life, and they have a whole bunch of different needs. Interesting. So we've had one hundred and eighty years of lending with deep specialism and the one cynicism I would have not to ever negative, but you don't build an SME business with a bit of algorithms in one year, the risk cycles and the expertise in sectors is what people need to understand you can deploy. So a farmer understand wants to know you understand their business not just this year. But what's happened in the last three cycles? What happened? So that business task but it's not just estimate that's the package an in. There we've rolled out technology, which is part of our platform where access to the revenue sage accounting. All those different services are interactive invoice. Discounting is another one we're rolling at. So you can live and act and manage and deploy all the things you need to do in your business on your time. The last piece I would say is those SME customers whilst we service all the returnees quite often come in to a branch of some kind for guidance an advice on building their business, not for alone people confuse that opposite coming into a sectoral specialist and having a talk with like minded individuals coming into a seminar, agriculture very valuable. They are very happy to do most things with technology. So we deployed a fintech which is straight through. So an actual live example of someone who had a substantial loan applied for ten in the morning by four talk in the they're funded without talking to the Bank. They upload documents be weeks and weeks, but. It's same-day application funding. It could be nine o'clock at night on a Sunday. Do it. Yeah. You don't have to be in a Bank. You don't have to send anything you upload it all yourself. So that person can do farm at nine o'clock after noon Sunday can do all their financial management of their business, fully integrated technology, and after the farm the next day has had the funds in it, deployed. They can pop by the office for advice on scaling, you know, what's happening in Europe. And how can they scale the business? Interesting. It's bringing all that together. And it's a bit naive to just say, well, I'm going to be able to do this because I have algorithm or something. Yeah. It is about the human being at the center of business and making their life convenient and low cost time for making it really convenient with technology, but also making expertise available that they can trust and they can rely upon. So I think that that think insistently comes out when we talk to customers is that human connection is critical regardless and if I can sell a lot more that super valuable, but whereas the humor. Interaction and non they're they're interesting points when a human wants the human site. No matter how much computer tells me, it's okay to press the button to send a deposit for mortgage. I want to person to tell me, it's okay. And that's consistent. Also, these, but but I do see maybe those lines Celts, blah. But I think we could talk about forever. But I wanna move his his point which is. I guess you mentioned the integration that with a fintech which found super interesting. And of course, you ATM tease fintech panel and. Been involved in helping select some fintech get funded. I think we'll both involved in at some point so one what are you take away from those experiences in to what do you see the influence of fintech on the UK market? It's I in because I'm looking at it as an envoy more in the space of tech, rather than fintech because there's also a blurring labeling him be a little unkind, and what I'm seeing is much more the relation to collaboration because you know, if you're realistic, those being very few unicorn fintech solutions in in the UK, you know, not at the volumes. We'd like I the volume of fintech and collaboration. You know, basically banking the big banks got bigger. So despite all these great successful stories big banks are still getting bigger and they're deploying their own digital Bank. So so how does a fintech stand when it's time poor capital for you know, resort poor. So I think if you can work smartly where your proposition which does solve a problem brilliantly for customary is better than what a Bank delivers the Bank just stops. What it's doing and takes you and helps you doesn't have to take you over doesn't have to buy you. But collaborates with you, and that gives you scaling competence, which then can be deployed in a broader sort of suite of customers. So I think that that collaboration works. I don't think it's just fintech. So we did easy Bob on the SME space that I talked about we did salary finance joint venture just announce more moving down into the disintermediation or inclusion space around at some of that. But we also did a joint venture with PayPal at the big tech. And I actually think that the the collaboration of fintech will become the norm. And I think partnerships would big tech will become. I'm the new frontier where everybody scrambling. Oh interesting because they will deploy. They could take the bottom. Seventy five percent of a Bank today. Replicated just like that. Yes. Because of all the distribution, logistics, and technology and processing capability and payments, which is a huge part of anybody all that's being done by big tech firms ready. And if you just put a Bank in a big tech firm, they just got distribution brand at the top. That's the only difference. So, and yeah, and they've got all of the all of the tech hold of the knowledge not the regulation, but how long does that moat last full? They're already working on it. And I've spoken to men about what they're trying to do in that and the appetite may not be high. But there is a a model. Absolutely. Which can be right where they do the entire logistics Bank, and you focus on customer, Brandon data, and you take the advisory risk and they provide distribution, logistics. If that comes together, there's no guarantees anything life, but you can be absolutely sure that those big tech firms are beta testing in China and India for scale for deployment in markets like ours. So it'd be naive. And so I think to think about that. So I think we're worse sort of operating a Bank is we want to have a lifestyle brand where we deploy banking very very different experience led way. And we want to partner with people which allow scale at minimum cost into the marketplace or anywhere else. We want to know, HUD, a Bank see a really view big tax as a potential Paul paternity in the future. And I think that's quite quite revolutionary. Derek say in terms of. Yeah. I'm I think because typically it's the threat that you hear about Bill come into mediate, but actually to see that was an opportunity endings a really interesting model because they they have so much capability. You do see people talking about maybe we'll use the cloud platform. But to think what virgin Brun could do not space is really really compelling. How can Sam delated smartphone while she's university? It must cost have parents of fortune to send to then she's fine. She can just borrow the cash and pay it back when she bugs a high-powered graduate job, the visa lane must be nearly thirty thousand pounds. Well, she'll be owning a lot more than that. After a couple of years. Imagine starting your career with sixty thousand pounds worth of debt. Yeah. You plenty of smartphones with that millennials future as Odette slaves. Don't settles a black hole white for the full perspective ton to the financial times. Visit F T dot com. Forward slash join us. Today customers demanding greater value from financial services. They expect more agility innovation and security than ever before. Most financial institutions are held back by the shock of close legacy systems that limit transparency block innovation and ignore customers. Demands Vanessa has a bold vision to unlock the potential of people in business. They've created a platform for open innovation in the world of financial services with fusion fabric. Dr. Their solution span retail transaction lending and treasury and capital markets on premise and in the cloud. Start your transformation journey today with Fano strip. I gotta move to the giant elephant in the room, the whole Brexit fifth. I'm. Have you? Well, you obviously must have discussed. How this affects CYP g going forward has been impact your business and how he thinking about the next two three years with with uncertain team front. I think it's very straightforward. We're lucky we're just a UK Bank. So we don't have all the complexity of overseas. And what do I put here? What do I put there? So just put that aside. Ours is about what is customers behavior going to be what is the appetite for borrowing what could be decline in repayments. So what does that look like, and it's it's relatively straightforward. It isn't that breakfast now surprise to people and the behavior is going to change we've being working with customers for a very long time to manage this. What you will see is an have seen is SME's stopping investing because uncertainty is of big limitation. So do I hire those people? Do I know how this is going to work what what is my estimate of my own sales volume. So there is a little bit of limiting capital investment. That's what I'm saying. There's a concern about. Gratien general because a lot of seasonality workers, you know, in stock picking up crop picking rather that's thing creating uncertainty and cause for polls people are slowing down. So that is not ripples through the economy. So that's not a great answer. Hopefully, it'll be short term almost any answer is good answer this states. Whatever it is at least provides a sense of direction on retail side, you you will see the high level of debt in the households in the structure of the UK to there will be a conservativism batting anymore debt on you're seeing a large slowdown volumes and mortgages. So that's what's going on people are just pausing. Yeah. Until they know something about the future of bit better. And you mentioned mortgages we've seen a couple of kind of warnings about module spin squeezed, and if we can get noti for the Nimitz is kind of thirty. You know, the interest margin between make from deposit. I'm what you get from the long term value lending, and how you can manage mature point of view and in a Bank. And of course, the competition with base rates being low some lodge lenders in the mall kit, looking at potential innovation around, can you help the family to get to the hundred percent mortgage, and all of this sort of thing. How do you see the mortgage market playing out? And what does it take to really sure that's up or you know is the space renovation now. What does that perch to look like, I think the Mark is very tough. Z look at the next two years ago. Big bang, supplying ring-fence liquidity of upwards of one hundred billion law of unintended consequences, and it can be deployed at any rate because it's better than no radio that presses margins. You've got Brexit and the volumes means that there's more people chasing mortgage. So that presses the margins on the funding side, you have to do more expensive emerald as part of regulation now after take TFF out of the world, which is the term fundings game with cheap lending. Yes. So you had a model in the past were plenty of growth, plenty of mortgages. And no ring-fence liquidity services sitting there chief financing, and everyone was running along and find all of that's change. So there's real competition real pressure margins in an environment. Interest rates aren't rising just at the moment. So that puts a lot of pressure on so low cost incredibly high service model is the starting point and then deploying innovation around that for value for the customer in terms of other services that come. So we think it has not doing mortgages anymore. It's owning a home when your own a home, you're going to look at hopefully, virgin media. I know what's that? Is it moving you're going to look at a relocation, you're going to look at a fit out of the house. Do you need surplus funds? You're gonna look at the house itself and the mortgage deploy and a whole load of other services around life. When you when you want own new home or moved to new home, and we're looking to build all those services into the equation for persons. You're gonna get phenomenal service. You have to leave that at a very competitive price with the full value question of all the other things together. So that's a competition model which will deploy for now. And I think the value conversations always an interesting one about if can I give you the customer value that full kind of be more valuable to you is an area to grow. But also you have to look at the other side of the book, which is then I must also need to attract deposits to be able to to keep doing that. So the consumer side must be still really really important, and I guess the value compensation plays plays a really important role there as well does. And you know, we look at unless you can come up. The proposition where you can gain an income and create value for the customer for starters. You don't have a business then you have to go and ask yourself what level of volume growth? Do you want to even that? And then you go back to your point of Kenya fund. What the cost is. Yeah. And you revisit the equation. We have because our mix SME's is as I said liability leads typically to two pounds of deposit for one borrowing, and that that that average cost of borrowing as much cheaper than in the retail space. You put the model together as a franchise and actually you mail manager balance-sheet optimally in the round. And so may mainly funded by rito, the mainly, you know, who don't have a lot of wholesale funding. And also having a big dose of SME in the mix. And I think you can create a much better structure, a standalone provider of a single product funds that much more difficult than indeed. And speaking, you may think of Marcus by Goldman was really interesting in the mall hit because they always say that most in the mall have have really been coming from. A different perspective. They really started greenfield. But also, they have extremely simple product that does no transactional capability within the product. You have to Lincoln accounts. Reich perspective, it was really clever in terms of how it was able to try to pull within not. And there's a beach. I think they ended up with something like a hundred thousand customers in twenty four hours it he was insane growth. I think at the top line people full. It was the right, but I'm just going to read offer short period of time. But it was also the simplicity on some things that people missed so how are you thinking about where raped plays a role versus where you know, if you were to pick one if I made you pay rate verses kind of service, so you leaning multiple service or multiple multiple banking lean toward service. Yeah. You know, if you want to grow up, you can always go to best buy rates on every single thing. You have a business. And then, you know, you know, returns shareholders as you're not serving the customer. Well, the the Marcus model, you know, I remember from your two thousand it's very. Simple model. Angie directed. They had nothing. They only open direct where they've no retail businesses. They plop it on a website connect, you can't posits in and out depending on flexibility, and here's a special rate. That's one percent over everybody in the market. Yes, not new is actually a copy of that. And I regard those things as fashion followers that they happen. Then they go. If you're looking at that as one component of six legs of astrology deploying in the marketplace. Okay, that's a different to think about. But for me. I looked at the rate. I looked at the discounted the tiny Brinton, you know, that's always the way with everything. And I said, okay that is important. It's a good thing to test the market see behaviors I liked that kind of innovation actually. But it doesn't have a bearing on how we look at. You know, our total balance sheet, that's a relevant interesting. Interesting stuff. So we'll talk about that the banking battlefield kind of emerging. Which is why being probing sort of some of the new entrance in the market. How do you see sort of? We talk about full types of people on the. Battlefield. So you've got the sort of the incumbents with all the customers and all of the money, but probably facing competition. Headwinds you've the Brun challenges would have put yourselves in that. But you're sort of to baked to be abroad and challenger anymore. But sort of coming up for more customers, but have been around for many years and have kind of been been. Number of organizations of then you know, kind of in the fall distance. We talk about the the big tax who were the who were those players, and then you've got the sort of the fintech and the challenges and sort of this question of like west Navan, or on this battlefield is it towards the tech side is it towards the fintech site. I imagine it somewhere in the middle. But the the question it brings his, you know, where would you prefer to start? Where would you wanna be? And where would you want to get to? I'm hoping dynamic makes makes great sense. And the answer is on surprisingly where we are is. I think the only place I would ever want to be in which is why we contrive to create it. You want a brand that is not a legacy tag brand in banking. It is a lifestyle brand with a lot of innovation disruption and service DNA and a national capability, and then you want to have all the products. There's no point being a brilliant alternative challenge. If you have one thing, and they have to go. So there's shopping the supermarket, but all the way across town for an. Apple his how sustainable is that question. Also, I don't think that critical mass of the challenges have created a profitability model that gives them the ability to generate Capulets always raising capital. So how do you create enough scale and volume post on that point? So i'll. That's my pet peeve. And I apologize. Pulling you up on it. Because it's I there's a very good chance. In fact, ninety nine point nine percent chance. I'm rolling. I'm going to be schooled. So. Where I'm taking this. I'm but the the post those suggests that the average customer pulsa is over thousand pounds per month and their profitability is six is about forty pounds per customer that they that they've acquired from from abound customary hundred thousand to one point five million. So what they've done is they've they've played in the cost model site by by changing, the very core infrastructure to be extremely modern and extremely fast. They've done is. They've really changed the cost also because they don't have a brunch infrastructure, but customers love them. They won the witch of a sort of service. And that's the battleground. Yes, the only question I would say to you because I don't look at them particular one used the generic of looking at the the issue is how many of the customers are primary, and you know, there are lots of people who have challenged cards in their wallets, but they get their salary patients their primary Bank. The second thing is how many of them are pro. Notable. And that means after every cost in the Bank, including raising capital, all that sort of stuff. But Thirdly are the deposits primary deposits like salary or secondary very important announces it's not done well in the UK for all of this. Because I've been studying it all trying to figure out a call, even you can invest in and partner with to create more velocity. And scale what you want is the best challenger model is one that is growing rapidly by taking market share not sharing marketshare and is taking the primary salary account not a deposit from the salary account and building that them into multi product. That's the best answer. You buy the argument that a Trojan whole sees all of your transaction. Data on your everyday spend take gives you all of the cost of running the primary salary account has most of the salary moved out into the everyday spend account, which then becomes a financial control center. That is. By most of the customers, and they see the everyday spend that then allows them to have data to help them lend in a different way because they've got a different platform. So there's a question there. I think strategically and then Secondly, they've probably got about I think it's less than one hundred thousand to check that have now gone full salary. But if you wind the clock back a year ago, everybody was saying will they flip from prayed called to full Bank account a year before that, it's oh, it's nice. But it's just a prepaid card. Is there a possibility that in five years the prime recently account question becomes one of those previous questions or do. You think there's a bigger jump here that we're all missing. Well, I think I would certainly hope so I do think because this you have competition generating every industry, we don't move forward at all completely. I would what puzzles me a little bit. Is that in the UK the challenge to the big banks has been going on for with many of the challenges eight years in existence and the big banks. Figure simple question. That's what I keep studying myself. Why and the fact is three percent of the people in the country. Switch Bank accounts yet. It's so that if the big banks getting bigger and switching his inertia based how does it become a massive change in the dynamic of where we are today at what what kind of times you're gonna take to get there. The last dimension which is fundamental. I've been thinking banking is people have this full debate about this amount of activity in a Bank and really people are time poor in society, ever more. So to an integrated offering that you every product and service at brilliant service with great value back to you, how do you compete without? And that's what I'm trying to create. I think that's not being done yet in the UK market. And it would be extremely exciting to see it. And I think virgin Brian gives a huge opportunity to do that. So I'm going to pivot as now to the questions that I think a lot of listeners. Somewhere in that career in frontal services tank, and we do have a lot of people that are just plain curious seemed to like for some reason. But but one of the things where we've asked them we've gotta see somebody who's done well in that careers for just a couple of top tips because frankly, there's a lot of people trying to make the way in life, and he seems to have done. Okay. So dare I ask what show productivity tip. To be honest. It it's I don't know if you call it productivity, but you start from the suction that you never stop learning. And so the level of consumption we talked about podcasts, but I have on digital format of my ipad. I have I I was just checking it last week. I was going through all the director of it. So my very cool app can be but but. Respect. But I was looking at it at I have fourteen publications which access so internationally around the world in the economists model to the Washington Post York time to other countries in Asia, I've lived elsewhere. And and I have a lot of so so the Christmas no read about six books on topics of interest, and they don't all have to be about work. But the fact is I constantly discover things that have no constantly. And I and I seem not to be evolving 'cause I'm always apprised. But but it is a maze. Ing and the world is changing so fast that you need to be a vociferous reader and learner to survive and ever since I was young. I was taught that in my first career that no matter how good you are everybody else is probably better than you at this. And this was the story that was always fed in my I was in Goma Sox's a culture, and no matter what your job was no matter how brilliantly prepared you for somebody else in the room. There are better at it than you. So you have this thing where you constantly had an edge to learn. And then that creates productivity is subsidiary element. Because. When I'm on trains, and I'll have a podcast, and I always have everything downloaded if I get the I'm scanning all the articles it specialist publications on particular topics macroeconomics anything and then good Oto biography. And then something that could be moving to more listening. But it's the competent and with my own kids. You know, I drive the mad. They because you know, there's always just a pile of everything which I'm encouraging to read send them to. But if you're successful at that, you have a half a chance down to bit of luck a bit of good fortune. I mean, but you have to be constantly view that you're probably falling behind. And if you have that healthy learning paranoia, I think you'll always be more successful than this healthy learning power. Neue sounds like the title of podcast, but. We probably don't call it. But that would be a great title. And then I was gonna ask also be guessing you've learned, but that but other than that where can people go to find out more about what you doing virgin money? Well, I think there's lots of ways you can go to money, you can go to see why BG, but you have talked today at CU IB dot com. Very it's an Email. So if anybody wants to Email me, I give it out to everyone in the in in the Bank and ever in the country. So it's an Email direct. And if you have an interest, I'll either answer directly or I'll share it with the Rico, and you made me think the question before I go, which is what are you excited about? Absolutely disrupting the business that I'm building. So it sounds perverse. But when we're talking that this time of year you start looking at strategy refreshes for the board. And I keep saying that I honestly think that in ten years time there'll be nothing like the banking architecture that we see today, and it's going to be very radically reframed, and I don't think there's a solution to the next model. I think there's a variety of models and components even aggregation of the banking function. So looking at what that isn't trying to figure out how I can wreck. My own party is is really the the maybe think of another question. So so so we think about that a lot. So I think from the technology to the process, I think more than anything banking has evolved to my mind from brunch processes, and what we've done historically, we've made customers become through a digital channel. Especially we've made them work our own banking processes, pull believe as far as progressively made up to you is there room to think about reacting very way, we would and think about the the coal stuff. You know, we talk about innovation to the coal and having strong coal, very popular yoga and Pelosi says, but but but is there room for that? Or really, do you think it's higher up because what's okay about strategy? How do you take the stalls approaches and do more experiments, and and do things that are less expensive that give you way, more information way move eilly because that to me is the interesting question that I that I think we've seen a lot of this is going to cost expertly, and this is going to cost. Hundred million. But if I was a startup, and if I'm CEO I won't I want to few other alternatives in not portfolio as well. And how do we do that? I think you have to figure out what you believe, you know, comes we're going to be in terms of the core outcomes. And for me, I think the the consumer in the future owns their data universe. Interesting would license it to us. So you pay for the data right now. It's John Ripa, so suppose that we're true. There's no sing as Facebook because they on taking your data with or without your knowledge. Obsolete selling it to the people? What I? I. HSA tapes. You know, you go back and look and go with that was crazy. So I don't think they exist. I think the the volition is back to the democratisation the internet, and you the back and you own what's mine is mine. I created I represent all of those components. If you want to offer me something you have to pay to play. I think that would change the very structure of banking in its entirety to your point of the core. The core is then just relevant. So you're accessing consumer through licensing data, the things you want in the service of you as an individual. It's not a Bank giving a banking product. At Bank, his enabling the day three conomy and empowering you in a completely different way. Which I think is truly compelling. I think what's interesting about that is how post Cambridge on Eliza. That's something that you can see the seeds have changed. You can also see Tim bonus Lee has started to woke and not direction himself. So I don't if you've seen some of the some of the stuff he's been putting out about that subject recently. But it's well with real dangerous because everyone said GDP, or was brilliant, and we'll take all back into the land of controlling our data. But the consumer has inability to focus for too long. What you get pup cookies everywhere, which are reinstalling full access to your rights bonkers GDP greens to raise in people's. Inability to pay attention. So so you have this whole data fight that will go on became an old in a tick box process. I think in the in the age of day, what's more valuable to me? And what does it Bank do well, historically bein quiz volts? And it was where I stoled my most valuable things. So what's more valuable to me than data? And I think there's an interesting question. Then we'll how do I design the experience for consumer Webuye? They have the days of wallet because I've seen so I've seen Barclays try this silver is and try SO governor verify the design and the tech sector that you need for that. I'm yet to see somebody really grasp. But thank you for going there with me because that was that was really exciting and interesting, and you kind of hinted us it the stuff that I think are intact inside and really enjoy. So thank you for doing. And you've already told us why we can find out more. But is there anything? You wanna leave listens with before? You just don't think that banking is banking, as you know, it, you know, and everything we've designed in banking has come from the customer design not. Us. So the real future of this is to your point about data while it's the customers, should you? As soon as banks learned that lesson. I think we'll be in a better price. Thank you very much for being here. Thank you. Two.

Bank UK fintech virgin money SME primary Bank CEO US Clydesdale Bank Facebook Bank Clydesdale Yorkshire banking g Yorkshire Bank big Bank Asia new Bank Brun David Duffy
June 26, 2020: Yorkshire Ripper Kills Shop Assistant

Today in True Crime

00:00 sec | 4 months ago

June 26, 2020: Yorkshire Ripper Kills Shop Assistant

"I! Today is Friday June twenty sixth twenty twenty on this day. In Nineteen, seventy, seven sixteen year, old Jane McDonald was murdered on her way home from a night out with friends. It was the fifth in a string of murders by the mysterious killer known as the Yorkshire Ripper, and it wouldn't be the last. Welcome to today in true crime podcast original due to the graphic nature of today's crimes, listener discretion is advised. Extreme caution is advised for listeners under thirteen. Today were the murder of sixteen year old Jane McDonald at the hands of thirty one year old Peter, sutcliffe otherwise known as the Yorkshire ripper. Let's go back to the city of Leeds. England in the late hours just before June, twenty-sixth, nineteen, seventy seven. Sixteen year old Jane McDonald in her friends tumbled out of a German pob and onto the streets of Leeds England. It was ten thirty on a Sunday night closing time. Their laughter died down as gradually. Everyone said their goodbyes. It was time to get home. Jane, for one may have been scheduled to work the next day. She'd recently taken a position as a sales assistant in the Shoe Department of a local store, it wouldn't be good if she showed up to her new job looking hung over, but tonight her eyes rested on the friendly face of eighteen year old Mark Jones. Jane and Mark had met only before, but they'd spent most of the night hamming it up on the dance floor now as mark asked Jane Weather, she liked to grab a bite found his company to resist. The two teenagers meandered through Leeds city centre until they found a chip shop there they chow down and continue to chat as yet. Another hour slipped by. When Jane finally glanced at the time, the last bus home had already left, but her new friend had a solution. Why not walk back to his family's house and see if his older sister could give Jane lift? Jane agreed, and the pair strolled along resting briefly at a park bench around midnight. Finally they reached marks home, but his sister's car wasn't in the driveway mark offered to walk Jane to a taxi kiosk at the nearby. Saint, James Hospital and she acquiesced by the time they parted ways in front of the kiosk. It was one thirty a M. Jane shivered as she punched in the number to call a cab, but no one answered. It was too late. Not even taxis were out at this time of night. In an instant, the magic of the evening wore off all Jane could think about was getting back home and crawling into bed for a few precious hours of sleep. She hustled away from the Kiosk, heading in the direction of Chapel town leads. Chapel town was home to the city's Red Light district, but it wasn't all a seedy neighborhood Jane lived on a quiet lane, called Scott, avenue with her doting parents Wilfred and Irene MacDonald and her two young siblings. Her family would have already gone to bed that night trusting. She'd make it home safe. Now Jane pulled her jacket close around her in the cool night air. She'd walked this route many times, but not usually so late. Then, as she turned onto, Reginald Street, she heard them footsteps. They'd been following her at a distance for the past couple of minutes, but on the quiet neighborhood street they were even more audible. Perhaps. Jane thought it was another night. Owl like herself. This was leads after all a large bustling city. She may not even have thought twice as the stranger behind her quickened pace, whoever it was, they were likely in the same hurry to get home as she was after all, it was now two am. Just then Jane noticed the adventure playground park ahead. It's tall wooden fence concealed a rope swing and heaps of debris inside not the most inviting spot, but it meant she was nearly home. By, now, the footsteps were almost next to her and Jane expected the stranger to pass by at any second. Politely, she stepped aside. Suddenly James felt a sharp pain in the back of her head, her vision cut to black as she crumpled to the pavement. The Stranger grabbed Jane by the armpits and dragged her up the sidewalk towards adventure playground. Then they disappeared behind the wooden fence. Coming up, Jane's death disturbs an entire nation. Like many of you I've been spending a lot of time at home recently. That means I have more time to play my favorite game. Best fiends while the game is casual. Some of the puzzles can be challenging to which is great because I get to keep my brain engaged. If I'm having too much trouble I can usually rely on one of my kids to help me get to the next level. Sometimes they'll disappear with my phone and when they come back, they finished ten levels. It's definitely safe to say we're. We're a best fiends household. There are thousands of puzzles to solve and every month the game updates with new levels and events, so it always stays fresh. Give it a try and see if you can beat my level of three hundred thirty one engage your brain with fun puzzles and collect tons of cute characters. Trust me with over one hundred million downloads. This five star rated mobile puzzle game is a must play. Download best fiends free on the apple APP, store or Google play. That's friends without the our best fiends. Now back to the story. On, June twenty-sixth Nineteen, seventy seven sixteen year old Jane. McDonald was returning home from a night out with friends. Around Two am? She was attacked from behind by an unseen assailant. This was thirty one year old, British serial killer Peter sutcliffe otherwise known as the Yorkshire ripper. In the year leading up to that night, sutcliffe had assaulted at least three women and killed four others in Yorkshire County. England one of them. A twenty eight year, old sex worker named Wilma McCann had lived just six doors down from the home. Jane shared with her Father Fifty eight year old Wilfred MacDonald. Up to this point, the murders had caused a small sensation with the press, nicknaming the mysterious killer, the Yorkshire Ripper, but sadly because sutcliffe prayed on sex workers, society was an all too worried about catching up with him before his next victim. On this particular night, Sutcliffe had been driving around the chapel town. Neighborhood of leads an area known as the city's Red Light district. He spotted Jane Walking alone and assumed she was a sex worker. sutcliffe later testified that he had followed her in his car for a while before trailing her on foot, as she turned onto Reginald Street, according to him, she never looked back or acknowledged him. Using his team method sutcliffe struck Jane on the back of the head with a hammer before dragging her into the concealed yard of Chapel towns adventure playground there. He struck her again before stabbing her bare chest and back. Jane's lifeless body was discovered by two children at nine forty five that morning her injuries board the distinct mark of the Yorkshire Ripper, causing an instant uproar throughout the county and all of England. Overnight the ripper was viewed by the public is a killer who preyed on any and all females, not just sex workers, and while the authorities were correct in believing that the ripper had simply mistaken Jane to be a sex worker. The implication remained clear virtually any woman could be his next target. sutcliffe himself would later claim when I sign the papers that McDonald was so young, and not a sex worker I felt like someone in human. But when the river came up in conversation at work, or in a POB I was able to detach my mind from the fact that it was me, they were talking about and I was able to discuss it normally. These were chilling words from a man who went on to murder. Eight more women after Jane just as disturbing was the fact that the killer might have been caught much sooner than he was. Just three months after Jane's murder cliff killed his next victim. Twenty year old sex worker Jeanne, Jordan authorities found a five pound note not far from the scene of the crime, it was inscribed with payroll number that traced back to the trucking company where sutcliffe worked. Investigators sifted through around eighteen thousand potential suspects at the company. One of these was Sutcliffe over the next three years law enforcement spoke with Saad cliff nine times, but even though he raised suspicion during multiple interviews, he was still just a drop in the bucket. The case was already too large and unwieldy for proper. Follow up. The case of the Yorkshire ripper would give rise to one of the largest manhunts in British history authorities interviewed nearly a quarter of a million people took down thirty one thousand statements and conducted thirty four thousand house to house inquiries, but in the end Sutcliffe was caught by mere chance. On January second nineteen, eighty, one three and a half years after Jane's murder police spotted sutcliffe with a sex worker and stopped to question him before long they discovered his hallmark weapons, a hammer and knife, and within a few days, sutcliffe confessed to the murders. sutcliffe claimed that he'd heard the voice of God telling him to kill sex workers. He argued that the voice drove him to commit murders even though he didn't want to. But this excuse was suspicious. At best for one SUTCLIFFE kept murder weapons in his car, an obvious sign of premeditation, his murderers also bore the mark of rage with Sutcliffe, often mutilating his victims after they had died, this signaled something of a personal vendetta against women and Sutcliffe himself attested that he believed many of his victims had taunted or slighted him in some way before he attacked. sutcliffe would do his best to plead diminished responsibility due to schizophrenia. But in nineteen eighty one, the Yorkshire ripper was sentenced to twenty consecutive life sentences. Thanks for listening today in true crime, I'm Vanessa Richardson for more information on the Yorkshire ripper. Check out the episodes of the podcast original serial killers which explore more of Peter sutcliffe crimes. Today and true crime is a podcast original. You can find more episodes of today in true crime and all other podcast originals for free on spotify. Not only this spotify already have all of your favorite music, but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals like today in true crime for free from your phone, desktop or smart speaker to stream today in true crime on spotify just open the APP and type today and true crime in the search bar. At Park cast were grateful for you, our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing. Reach out on facebook and Instagram at cast and twitter at park cast network lead back with a brand new episode tomorrow in True Crime. Today in true crime was created by Max Cutler and is a podcast studios original. It is executive produced by Max Cutler sound design by Trent Williamson with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Carly Madden and Joshua Kern. This episode today in true crime was written by Allee wicker with Writing Assistance by Nora Patel I'm Vanessa Richardson.

M. Jane Peter sutcliffe Yorkshire Ripper Jane McDonald murder England Jane Walking Leeds Jane Weather Chapel towns McDonald Wilfred MacDonald spotify Leeds England Mark Jones Yorkshire County apple James Hospital facebook James
EP57 Haunted Yorkshire With Nick Tyler

Weird Wacky Wonderful Stories Podcast

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

EP57 Haunted Yorkshire With Nick Tyler

"Hey guys drew from spun. The supernatural paranormal and explain network cashew worked missing thirty fano is one read welshman one wacky on on one wonderful podcast enjoy. Hey everybody welcome to episode fifty. Seven of the weird wacky. I'm wonderful stories. Podcast podcast higher ramani thank you drew from spoonful intro and i see got little plug in for is episode thirty that we interviewed them well. Of course he did and gotta do it. Gotta do it every opportunity as you can we would we would. We hope totally. Would i mean you plug our show. All the time got to do it. Somebody's somebody's gotta do it talking about plugging. If you want to do an intro forest please feel free to do so. All you gotta do is record on your phone or whatever device you want and send it to male. That's weird wacky wonderful dot com u._k. And we will put it on the top of the show so that you can be famous just like drew from spun anyway so who got with us today well. We have an also all the way from yorkshire to tell us about. His new book haunted yorkshire. Please welcome to the show nick tyler hynek hynek. Thank you thank you for joining us on this saturday morning. Expanding man we got to say that you sent a copy of the book which we thoroughly enjoyed it definitely left you want to read the next story the next account you've got really good way catcher in reader's attention and dragging them through the story with you so thumbs up for the ragging them look you drug them through not that you inspired inspired them and they wanted to really. You know what i mean. Look inspired. I said yes sorry about that. My grasp grasp of the english language is why i'm not an also tennis a little bit about your background nick so in shoal paranormal stories only without ten years ago now self publishing myself and then i go really interested in the psychology kind of side of the old john nra which is basically a little bit more about trying to understand why people think the way the thing can believe in what we believe in trying to save his any natural in normal normal reasons for them things before immediately starts look to the paranormal side which i find an absolute fascinating topic is something that sort of develops into these folks when assad writing short stories for the and then eventually publishing in touch from reading the culprit show sores on amazon and asked if i'd be willing to expunge on trauma local area that is now holds at yorkshire where we ended up is a very well written book and watch you said obviously you had background background and interest in it. Was there any specific inspiration that made you think i'm actually not going to stop putting these stories together yeah. There were quite a strange story. A friend of mine is he's absolutely obsessed by ghosts and spirits and an all these talking boxes ouija boards and everything else so you sorta go with him when he wanted to go out look look into whether we were looking for a one day with halts in doncaster outside in cemetery was adamant. The displaced was haunted so we sat there for around probably holy an hour hour and often absolutely nothing to all those boring not my life to be honest. That's nice a classic ghost hunt night that is exactly and then ozzie. How's it when i ended up call out of five and finished on inflicts on the fall but i didn't put it out. I can call my friends queen. While can you see in front of us and it will literally my sister was on the left side of the kid and the smoke just blowing off in front of the call and he did saw attack strange shape as it blue or the you know regardless of the shape it was just cigarettes now and he was adamant that it was a spirit from any literally why is a sheet a wheel oil spill now and to be honest. I don't feel it is i kind of open. Does it in a way. It was never told him that. It was actually just to say that we saw that night. Well that was sort of the thing that really spend my interest in. It and i thought you know people see what wants to say or is the genuinely sometimes something more to it. It's funny because people do the same in my opinion with all the time <hes> you'll get an investigation or whatever and people all of these photos and videos out and say that's an and all that you see that all which is moving with intelligence yes because there's a raise behind it. A bit of dust or is a fly really obsessed. I don't i really don't see the big thing about odds. I've yet to be convinced when it comes to the thing is it was so most onto that it really brought all in the full from our normal and the all ally anomalies in the all quite interested in sit faxes for not to be taken seriously from the scientific point of view. It needs to have clear nucleus in the middle right on the outages just seem to have formed from <unk> north. Just i'd say probably ninety five if not more percent the scene these days can all be put on those insights and anything else that sort of flies iso become this very few that you will actually sold a zoom in investigate and you will see a clinton nucleus when he's there is a new place in the sense of so it looked like yeah i was actually developed from nothing will become a little bit more interested in the off. You'll fall between two before i was working in a chip shop and and one of the people that work there and it had cameras you know throughout the store. One of the girls came running to me in the back going. There's somebody out there. There's somebody out there but they're not out there coming. Look at this camera look and it was a fly sitting on the lens of the camera but when you actually did look look at it on the screen. It really did look there. Was somebody standing there yeah yeah but i saw the fly. I knew it was there so it was really really. I mean i i can see how things like that happen. A whole paranormal is is built on belief entire. Topic is on a matter ripley is a chapter in there about earlier which is exactly basically to all areas the way in which your mind will on atoms in any random first and foremost faces. If you look at any obstruct picture or london's gable clouds your mind will always try and fall face. He's from something that's not bad and not just our brains away and over sixty concierge facing stop trying to look different other things and parole air is is the biggest is reason for a ghost stories because people sort of my see something in the peripheral which is actually a little more than maybe alive flab in the room. All it can be absolutely anything. Normal will assume it's a ghost they can look at all sir <unk> example the jobs to them. It's it's a ghost in his is all. The biggest one for me is the final speeches that people send me quite regulates <unk> and you'll always see they're always on bigamous pictures. You know the mob agrees y'all also on the gravestone in the background that slightly little cumberland and then to them they see as always is proof it the ghost uninet whereas there's an actual fight is squad everyday normal object that they seem to the sultan is not one of the pictures in your book specifically the icicle one all right yeah that was so weird i can imagine being home at night by yourself and you look out your window and that sort of what we see you know that's the exact reason i decided to include the picture because i thought early basically was was just a water dripping from the goats or it was so cold it was ice and as soon as he took the other is bill opening building building building until it looked like a fall and i just figured we'll just imagine props driving live in home you've been out to dinner or whatever that night and you drive home dole but he call on uganda soap and all of us from the guy outside your house again the thirty five will then obviously closer inspection. You see it's it is what it is. Just i but it happens to us all doesn't it. I can remember as a kid being in my bedroom nice to suffer terribly with nightmares when i was a child my parents my parents wouldn't let me watch anything that was even vaguely frightened because they knew it would hold me for weeks. I can remember lying in my bedroom at night and you look around your room and ordinary everyday things would become these really frightening faces or forms or whatever you turn the light on in computer system or it's a teddy bear or something you know in the light of day the quad noble j exactly exactly yeah we have doubtless so rather than just regurgitate in the stories very often read the book you talk about extra bits of investigation that you've done alongside loyd it that will support the story for instance. How long did it actually take you the project from the start to the end of this project. I know obviously your published is still to happen. Uh-huh it taken you so far i would say probably around eighteen months the actual ride him pot was relatively quiet as something natural commute i enjoy doing so i can blast out quite a lot of words in a short time as you said you know drive in the length of yorkshire from my basic sheffield was quite time consuming activity a lot of phone but it wasn't it wasn't overnight. Did that friend go with you. He came came to a couple of spots from the vast decided to go through by myself. Make from okc lehrer show. Have you ever experienced appearance anything paranormal yourself itself questions. I think i've experienced things it can't explain whether or not i would call in paranormal suppose by the definition or normal so therefore they might be able. I don't know i'm still sitting on the fence something jerusalem on that yeah i've singed shadows whether should be shot <unk> sound like voice in things in places that shouldn't have been there but then at the time he petrified but then i sort of comeback in a really stuck in my head and i keep replaying and replaying it in the mall that you do that mall normally colin so is fun so in the book you cover quite right well known case which is the thirty strife case in pontefract yep. Can you tell our listeners who may not be familiar with that story about that story so the semi detached house house on easter is number was still in the in the fifties in the late fifties a normal house on a normal street absolutely nothing that you would assume the paranormal and anyway the whites the fist family that live there. We don't know a great deal about the family after them. The bill will call the perch odds and quite soon after living in for rich ods claim that some why strange things happened this rejoin the early nineteen sixties the grumble the for instance was looking after they <unk> phillip it was fifteen years old at the time on she claimed that <unk> does hearing is about shoulder the high of an average mountain she claimed as if someone was sort of you know lost in the choke from nowhere this was seen as well by filat which became quite what an unusual thing but it was sort of put down to maybe it was those two and then as the weeks went on more more thing starts happening to kept finding polls of war the kitchen <unk> view from nowhere not in this place as you'd expect underneath the sink will literally scattered all over the kitchen so this went on for a little while on it wasn't to show the calls was wasn't at this point thinking it was <unk> norman white and then as time went on by they claim that the water was replaced that one bit slice something straight out gospels claim the green slime stocks come out tops so at this point people started a bit more interest in the case and in the national news at this point but local newspapers star getting an in radio on the other hand reps are very money was back in the sixties. People didn't have the camera phones and every day which sort of it one way adds to the romance of a ghost story for me that in scientific weight can take always from it as the weeks went on the blue the family family repulsive <unk> at the track to co inhabit with it for a few melson everything other than you know the war on the floor and things everything seems to be fine until he seemed to take quite an interest in there you'll be starter and she walls reportedly scratched numerous times kept waking up in the morning scratches over the back of the night on our arms on the legs things and the family was getting a little bit unnerved obviously obviously by this over the next couple of weeks. They saw to live with it. They tried to figure out what he's getting rid of it. The last straw for them they claim was when the youngest thought was going at all night the whole family status and they don't is legs were lifted up in the air as if an unseen force at grabbed hold of her and they dragged down the stats yeah yeah you can imagine sort of being there what you do so that the family fled the house from then on it became known as the most haunted house in europe. The police gossip which it still remains to this day. I still happens going on there. Yeah bill owns at the moment is become quite a tourist attraction to decide aside from you can pay. I'm not sure it's not a cheap place visit what you can go in group sessions over the night and you can stop any as kept exactly the same as it was back in the sixty s. I've <unk> probably close to a hundred people that visited an visit myself is a really cool place to go and stay and definitely with visit if you're interested in the paranormal the people pay to go and see the will give you a very mixed reviews. Some people claim that nothing up rick complete waste of money on the wooden go by and then and other people claim that there was just constant activity all night old bed frame shaking the wardrobes the winds knocking scratch in thrones those means in a whole wide range of of different phenomena which to me you almost makes it a little bit more credible because it was a tourist attraction. Thank all our how is they wanna scare. Every single person that went in i would be rigged. Things would be really yeah exactly so the fact that you know it's only a percentage of people actually actually experienced things those make me so perhaps there is a little bit more to it and i think we covered this story way back when on really really early show of ours and we only touched on it really and read in your account of what actually happened was absolutely fascinating and as i said earlier it just kind of leads. You feel goodness the next door you're going to the next door. You're going to be the way it's written as well. It's broken up in a nice easy. Chunk so if like me i struggle duggal to read for hours on end belkin just sort of consumer book in one sitting but i need to walk away and think about it and come back type of thing but yeah ready eighty really well written as as i said before the first story in your book was really walk grabbed me because it told about the work houses in the seventeen and eighteen hundreds brilliant <unk> brilliant place to go and visit they invited meal to go in and meet them out of season so that was fantastic she he said i'll meet you with the ghost team that role volunteers novel ghost stories so i drove up written. I was greeted by these eight nine old guys and they're all dressed in victorian taurean <unk>. It was just a fantastic experience in the shed with other ghost stories they use other accountable head or you know experienced one way or another and then the gate may have full tall the wick include in the areas the eh eh normally off to the public so that was the experience was absolutely phenomenal. I don't speak highly. It'll and just when you were talking about the conditions in these places and you know what they were fed and they have to sleep on and the fact that the vagrants and trump's would end up so the stay in the night there and then having to do the work and everything as well. You sat really could see as to what the times times were like back in seventeen eighteen hundreds. Yeah i mean to be honest. The books written well lot. You say you can sorta get a sense of it until you actually visit you. Just can't imagine what it was like is split into the different. Obviously the main people that stayed there eminent than the trump's that were just for the night on there is literally literally a desk the phone this still full names and the told me that trump's were q. Q. q. on to get inside when they got there. They was given the fumigated on then they were searched for penny if the auto even one penny on them bettag onto the street because they thought oh the people needed the the beds for the night molten and apparently there was between the different black houses around the u._k. There was little bread stations out every every ten fifteen twenty miles. I was told something so these trump said stop for the night do a bit way. Get nice breakfast everingham wallace a nice guy breakfast in in the morning and then they'd all walk to the station's fifty miles away to get some bread then walk ten miles or so on the next week house into the exact same and that was the whole off aw what some of the experiences that they actually had the we'll catch museum ribbon so one story that real walls out the fish wife of george greenwood who was the master out surgeon as the story goes the guardians were the people that were unsuitable for looking over the whig houses and make sure they were all both room while efficient cost-effective and everything else george greenwood fist wife was the matron and she's with friends a wick outs in wales look at ways of disciplining the children and they claim that the naughty boys in gills it be locked away in the back of the classroom and it was a very effective punishment in the kids generally behaved one day a little five year old was being as they put insulin so most likely talking or chatting on the matron matron decided to lock him in the kobe as was the practice at the back of the classroom the only downside to this walls germany's stay in the kobe. She got a telegram from from somebody. Leads in assistant was ill and in what rape shape so she immediately rushed off the carriage and went straight leads. She stayed minnesota for a few days <unk>. Pretend to reckon with everybody was searching for this guy. The awful you know money's to escape from rhode often often when fend for himself. The matron was quite scared mortified. Its is claimed at this point and she asked if i wanted to check the cupboard at the back of the room. They said that they did not czech. Coalpit <unk> the whole room so the older strips says immediately open the code found the little five year old bali alive belly breathing limp. Is anything obviously already malnutrition from living in the white house anyway so they tried their artists to save the boy and he spent days. I believe down at the infirmary before eventually subtly passing away from malnutrition on the matron walls mortified. I walked she and was very yeah. She apparently she was <unk>. Stay a deep depression over the next few moments in the ten of event. She was actually pregnant time time and a few months later she had a baby on died during childbirth in a shakespearean twist if you will to the tail so that's the really stuns our repin interesting thing is that edison's that and even to this day lasko visages of their claim to have experienced it they say that the woman still marches around the area stomping feet wailing crying and shouting out for the little boy looking for him it was in the <unk> can only assume from the guilt you know stayed with a long period of time and judy broken up because that's kind of sad really you know take time yeah. I'm kinda going to switch gears a bit and go back a bit to the chapter the you've done about the psychic controversy. Can you talk to us about how when you go to see via psychic or a medium some of the ways in which they draw people in basically psyche will use numerous numerous techniques to make feel as though they are saying something very specific t._e._s._l. <unk> supplies to almost everybody the most famous ones of these that people need to be aware of of gold ballroom statements coined i. p. t. barnum who was recently. I back into the public eye. In the great showman show movie it said the bomb was obsessed with psychics and the paranormal and things like this and he coined two phrases. One was the super bowl and every minute on the other. Was this something for everybody. In these were both aimed at charlatan psychics so bottom create <unk> think he'd make ten statements at the time just to showcase ace what they were doing in relative is pretty much millions and these statements all ways of asking questions in plots everyone so one of my favorite ones owns often used to explain it is say for instance you very fun to be around in your great great soul and could be the life consoled the pause in and everybody was done through the air in so much on but then when you go home by yourself you find yourself sort of relieving the compensations buck over in your head and sort of you know different different could have done differently to make it. A little bit by an ultimately bys is saying something all you're actually saying is that you've got an introvert side and an extrovert saw which is what everybody in the will and everybody goes back in in questions the things that they're <unk> things if a psychic sanity you in particular la- sets in it sounds extremely pixels what you say another good example is is the way the last questions very commonly things like will say you not been very well recently of you and by the way you can say. I've not been very well. They'll say yeah that's what telam in needs to go to the doctors or not feeling fine and tell me you're in really good health and not negative given by an question did numerous different unsafe. I must say quickly much the no the book of the minute outside and for the last eight weeks of been seen as many as could possibly fit and and i've seen nothing but barnum statements in cole read and then lost someday actually actually as it goes a guy called paul humphreys into never been before in mostly quite popular because when i found him on facebook yet all thousand lines so this guy goes in <unk> any was phenomenal days even now. I can't explain it. Illustrates opened the show with august twenty second two thousand six who died on that date now thinking very unbelievably specific <unk> psychic yeah and as it goes. Someone knew someone who died. I don't know if they have no maybe lookie gas. He kept saying so many different things all the way through it that made me think this crazy but salu blue seal if ame- if you will the end he's from scunthorpe all whole we doubt enroll room so he's you know it's quite a distance not somewhere even in regular and there was a couple who came into the spiritualist church and they came in late and i know the other except sentiment the same one before so they came in late in the south the by and then pull it out evenings from the end of his performance. He saw tova points it to the old shop bach and he said who's twenty second wedding anniversary today. The guy just look to them is joe royle most on the florida when imams many started chatting lo yeah exactly about loaded with so and i was just you know oh this book right in the albion is ready for throwing the because i thought the same things over and over about these people be awesome this guy pulse open really really open to kind of winds up if you will find us. That's what i love about the old they'll paranormal genre because you know have you believe what you think at some point. Oh always <unk> to change on well. I found it interesting when i was reading net that you said the psychic never just gets on the stage. I'm talking in a group setting. Never get you on the stage and goes oh you right there and such and such row seat or whatever and just delivers a message why it is always always really ambiguous but i never thought about it but is true. They should be able to go. Hey your aunt so and so just said to me whatever whatever but then again. We don't know how the message is being delivered to them. Do we are they just here in a voice in my child is there and it's mina versi today as much honey. Second anniversary is saying for me. The strange thing is like i was watching <unk> deal the week on this. He said the show <hes> with a big old victorian style cross from so that instantly showed us that they were seeing images now with that is from spirit over them images just a lot of what was the million billion that were racing around the mine and then in the next breath the sake claim that the spirit was directly talking into a point where you'll you'll know the showmanship when the talk in the spirit wants mitte and then they'll stop and they'll look off can't say as if the physical eleven a conversation with the ghost now. My arguments always been for that if they off physically. I've been a conversation with ghost that goes with tim down and say is may until it in the <hes> jonah in row four. She's got red shits on. That's what i always say well then they'll always sell their manages not strong enough. This always a reason why is way with do. I honestly believe there's no such thing as psychics. I'm not saying not because i genuinely don't out. I just think excluding poll home for his obviously from till now i've not seen anything that's been enough to make me sing while will then ease really you know oklahoma mind new things so but we'll have to see if we can get in touch with him and see if we can get him on the show and explain to us while he actually he is in eh just the other thing you mentioned a mind reading sort of trick that you and a friend years did with a deck of cards yeah yeah jackie talk about that yeah cost of magicians go from one time doing <unk> tricks and contracts and they will go into something called mental ism which is the most famous now for the great darren brown obviously was u._k.'s wills best men's list and he always appears to be reading people's minds ends will ultimately trick play all something a lot a lot mentally will go on to be charlotte's in socks. Make a good living from it so the trick. We used to do to sort of demonstrate how it might work. Mana friend would be set up somewhere a deck of cards. Now the it calls for the club's hall spades and diamonds we would allocate different sitting in for each one of the calls and then for the ace through king would give an initial do themselves like a._c._a. Dusett b. b. b. c. and so on and so forth so spectate they said to sort of pick random caught so it'd be on through and let's say he picked the two diamonds for instance so well would've already allocated ascending fitting for the diamonds. Let's just say jones for argument's sake or the deuce we already know it was bait so i would say you know ring my friend although they might i don't even think <unk> <unk> an ox for brendan jones so the second they ring open for brandon jones. He already knows what the cost is because the rules and the name it by a little bit of trickery showmanship and making out that you shouldn't let you know you've i just think y'all call auden guy on the end of the phone. Just sort of slowly visualize it knocker fuel <unk> what god is and the audience is astounded. Nevels wallace's is insane. We've just seen some genuine e._s._p. Rousselot snow while we wait an i don't know if you watch it. All the britain's got talent and they've. I've always got these people on there. Who who can do these you know magic tricks or whatever and you're like how and i mean we. We've watched and we're sitting there going. How the hell did they do that and you pick at it and you're thinking well no they couldn't have done this because that wouldn't work or you know and then you you just never really thought about. It really would take just a really good setup. Wouldn't it some way to make something that is easily explainable sometimes a lot easier than you think the metrics we need absolute minimal work. I don't really watch that show. I want my partner does whenever there's anything that own <unk> lavish shopping wash it or she'll show youtube video the race gone off. I stood at magic quite a lot when i was younger and mental ism in particular a terrible magician and i've. I've got no slide under any in yeah. That's why he lived onto the parapsychology. Yeh saw ruined off me because the vast majority act in guests want us sir you as in which the donate ball always gets me off pretty cold. I'm not you know obviously taking away anything that they do because it is a show oh they've got to talent to have to be able to command a room rayleigh and have confidence that it's gonna work mark because if it didn't everyone would be like oh my god. Did you see that last night. It didn't work in his name. Is this you know which is exactly the same as psychics cakes more impressive came in and said you know this is the best mental show you ever gonna say. I'm gonna tell you everything about everyone in the audience rather than <unk> again on specific things and effectively sometimes maybe delving a little bit too deep into somebody's memory didn't darren brian do at that point didn't he did want and then told him off was fake in mental fixing stuff so so it can be done yet yeah because of easily easily if you if you train <unk> the big question is and this is something that you have to think quite regularly about is is there aligned nine for psychics at the cross is what they do own ethical or is it normal. I find it absolutely insane the of hardworking hardworking people around the u._k. And all over the world you see him on facebook all the time about an email off nigeria millionaire offer miss seven billion and they hate it. We get so wound up that somebody's trying to scum him out on it yet. They all hewitt outside psychics to pay twenty thirty forty fifty opponent our for a reading so yeah found myself asking a lot you know is the psychic trump lane on the memory of one or we're not jewel. Fights is the comfort that the offering in the fact that the still talking about this and create a legacy feel like a almost like therapy eropean it for war in a is such a fine line between the two of them so i think that what we've got to make the people because obviously we've got a lot of people the listen to this show who do take comfort in those kind of things. It's like you said seems like there are decent psychics who may have a gift. May have talent may be able take spent yeah because of don't miss this interview last week. I would have spoken a very different tone about a bomb an open minded guy. You know i'm just like everybody else. I have my own opinions but i'm always willing to look and see new things in a completely got me thinking now it. It's just like anything else in life. Though isn't it you could go to your car. Breaks down you go to a mechanic and that mechanic says this is wrong. That's wrong. That's wrong it at an and and all of a sudden you're paying you know six hundred pounds when really if you would have taken that car down the street just a bit the the other guy would have said hey all you need is one thing you know and could af- extra car so in any area in any topic. There's always always gonna be people with the integrity and honesty to you know and they conduct themselves that way but you're also oh always going to get the ones who exploit unfortunately that's just life so we'll back onto the book. We've heard we have many oh yeah come on. We've been many times about ghosts haunting roadways in fact we spoke to ruth roper wild about her book. Roadmap british ghosts on the show couple of episodes ago. The story that you recant that happened on backs bro was was fascinating listener stories the <unk> if you asked me to take three of my favorites i've gotten rid out in beck's brow is our fall one of my favorite stories. I think that on top of the story lori itself is what you find about. I know it's real name but michael afterwards. Luckily you wanna leave our listeners. Throughout the whole yeah yeah right brian so beck's brow is the e six four seven eight which rooms between wigglesworth <unk> toss side and is a very infamous infamous place for a great number of fatalities over the years car accident with a lot of the things you know people driving too fast and driving conditions and everything in all trafton's lane was quite wind destroyed not somewhere that you will sort of traveling unless you're incomplete duration. A lot of people claim the <unk> brow how strange apparition of a full bodied why lady materializes <unk> road often on dump mister nice inches and she's believed off soul of a twenty one year old girl. The wall was killed in the nineteen seventies when boyfriend lost control of the column not stress. You wrote boasts died. Interestingly boyfriends actually never mentioned in the stories only so military's claim that the spirit can be seen so of almost hitchhiking if you will side of the road of this claim that she walks from all of this claim that she just has disappears and some claim that she seems to chase jason causing the the reason that she's as not fully playable from the paranormal point of view. It's leave props died very very quickly when nicole alkali that so it's possible maybe a soul was from a buddy of therefore she's not quite sure she's dead or expression really so i was looking through the accidents that happened in because my joyous by on the phone one that went back to april two thousand eleven from a guy named michael a changes name as i will get to show they'll say that in the <unk> mike cole claims that he was driving very very slowly alone bex proud because because he was a very treacherous not it was obsolete silent down we rain says he definitely was not going anyway. Claim that when he came to one of the really shaw <unk> related on the side of the road soggy wet through cova de more said he'd never stopped to pick anyone opens locked lock before <unk> this lady digital ghostly to him. She didn't appear to be an operation of any kind. You genuinely saw it was just a you'll related that was struggling so he pulled over the side of the a few feet from a winning stopped timber rounds and she'd just come to be called out safely when needed an l when no uncertain a steady wait a few moments to see she yeah she didn't he saw argued with himself whether it was <unk> off ruptured infra and by the guys in the car runoff a carried on jenny as all the way through e tau solve the same woman look the same woman ronin alongside the vantage which was a little bit confused now because they claim that he was it was far enough away that it'd be driving. The call was no real way. The lady go kota kota with him in his car so it wasn't sure if it would say mona pranks is all not quite short when early decided obviously not stop off the last ball so we heard on the late at least point from ruining so adjacent to his car on the verge suddenly shaw <unk> ruining shoe from a room straight jumped out in the road stray from recall on our control completely lately raised car off current off the lanes retrea side and basically stayed there for a few moments barron's. Although it did reasons uh-huh after the election <unk> otis about thirty minutes there was an excruciating pain in his chest and length but it was so validity failed to grubbies own-goal powell says <unk> a broken leg on very severe bruising across his chest from where the play was still alive in the whizz most importantly no sign of any latest mucking about that was injured or otherwise he story was very strange to me and the reason i was so interesting because it was one of the very few view go story accounts by someone's ended a genuine injuries could have been yeah filtering off azel so i did look a little bit more into it. Law people claim that michael's account balls possibly put down to imagination paul drive in all this combination different so did look little bit deeper into the story to see anything else that would be discovered and one very interesting facts they found out was not in april would be back in two thousand eleven who was actually tested for alcohol side of the road when the police arrive which obviously is the general procedure for any road traffic accident is test has was positive and it was found bill the full times the legal driving limit discuss this with him after after discovered it and he was. I'm absolutely adamant that despite not telling me previously was drove. Lady was one hundred percent at the side of the road and that she definitely definitely johnson from wisconsin. Family believes with hindsight that it was the infamous white lady of sprout found it a little strange is that it was only after at us about the articles that he saw of admit the ad it out. It'd been drinking enough. I'm from driving take time as well and obviously for his name to be changed in the book. <unk> point is the saudi <unk> is very interesting but it asselot questions uh-huh because it was he just you know he's been out for fuel basic ritziest car off nearly folklore tale and just sorta buddy buddy downsized out just to try and get out of the pickle all was been more to it because they store the tells them and how it sells it ties in very very closely mostly with you know ten zal their accounts with people claiming to have in this this alleged operation on beck's brown. I'm really in terms of him. Maybe not admitting into initially about his intoxication. It's kind of like a damned. If you do damned if you don't actually said oh by the way i was driving drunk this one time and i saw this thing i would. You have actually said okay well. I'm not going to bother pursue in that story. I wouldn't have even listened exactly exactly if i found out it had been drunk income and i wouldn't even at saint it a surreally tough on because he's very authentic get into people's facial expressions and emotions and the speaking to him spoke to him. I genuinely feel like he was lying on my mind telling me it was if it was the strangest ranges conversation so i was really well. I like the fact that you kept not story in the book if you like because i think it shows your balanced approach to the subject exactly and i also want to point out how ghost stories console of come on and develop the the so many fun sausage owns out there. Everybody lies off. Aww remove is in a b._b. Scary bolts and not not on jerry investigate <unk> their own home and just sort of showcase that you know for as many good go stores is they're all that could be real. You've also got to find the balance of the ones that might football tales pasta. It makes me wonder though <hes> it gives a creepy element. The boy that was driving had the crash. Was he drinking. Why is it that initial. Oh blues. Why is he not ever seen or talked about. It's always her exactly you know. Is she angry angry because that kid was maybe searching for him. You can only speculate but it is interesting to think. Why wouldn't he be seen exactly. They're all abilities in his in that makes the topic so fantastic. I think for me personally. I think that in the wants to be ghosts and i think he is in the book at one point. If the wizards being my own situation in the most common ones that believe in a the cold death echoes which all people replay in the death over and over and over throughout its in its own esam constantly in the live like the gray ladies you see looking out the windows looking out to sea for the sun's coming back from war ever all you know people have been committed in a died in in pretty horrible brutal ways things i just feel that as possible and i emphasize possible that they roar emotion involved with the the court effectively skull the fabric time if you will unless the stone take theories name yeah and therefore just keep playing over and over i prefer that hypothesis to the one that there is actually no this consciousness for want of a better would that is constantly live in pain and that turmoil yeah wouldn't wanna suffer that hundreds master that's a hell is much preferred so the idea that it's actually the environment replaying the scene and not some consciousness to and i certainly would want to be trapped in toleman for your worst worst nightmare over and over and over again for over who was i really liked the story about the capo flat lane in beverly with the hotel. That's fundamental. Yes acuras amazing decided on because from some hotels polls are actually more common than you believe generally all <unk>. Someone's been driving on a on a cold rainy night of usually been driving for a long take time older overly tired in the stumbled across this hotel that nice and it's well presented his often got a bit of an old fashioned vibe to it go in they always claim it was out of the free or absolute pennies for the night in the well-fed <unk> go home the carry on with the normal lives the wild aubrey wanted to go back and visit place to go and he's just is not seen it on audio talking about well. We it because you know it's kind of what we do. We went onto google and we searched for copper flat lane and and we found that that late actually turns into another lane which is called killing wad graves lane and it's all one word which is pretty interesting interesting but we also way back in the beginning sort of when we started to interview guests on our show there was a story that we told told about a an army guy who is in sort of a convoy with other army vehicles in the states was yeah he was in. I was in maryland. I believe one of the vehicles breaks down and he gets to be the lucky one who has to stay with that vehicle until it can be recovered and it ended up the os late eight at night and he could see across the road a diner like an old fashion diner which isn't all that rare. I mean there are a lot of in the states but he goes across seleny thinks well. I'll have you know have a bite to eat drink. I can see the vehicle. I'll get back over there quickly. If they show up well turns out that eventually goes back over he sort of takes a nap wakes up when the recovery guy comes and is saying to him you know it wasn't that bad. I want to cross the road to the steiner and when they look across there is a diner but it's dilapidated and boarded up and obviously hasn't hasn't been used says so it reminded me so much that that obviously but there is no hotel in your i story or no no yeah. There's even a dilapidated is all there is one sort of fairy that is possible that jazz <unk> guys in the desert will in this mirage of a wall everything else and you know is. Is it possible that people <unk> overly tired overly home grail really sleep elderly this whatever you're so desperate that only that they know imagine something with that when i was always there actually a ghostly because it only it falls. This is really interesting. Could it be something to do you know if they exist around all universe. That's is kind of merging with ours. I shouldn't place throw at times exactly exactly. Is it some kind of hot spot for activities the task if there was one paranormal phenomena the experience it also no one's. I've read about experience in one either. It's always a five stars always toxic thing. I also enjoyed the story of the lady in the house who kept tearing tearing the voice saying emily. Where are you or your baramullah an oak ridge wetherby and that really touched a nerve with me anyway because in my work i care i work at a care home with a lot of people who have dementia or maybe they don't but they've come into do the home because maybe they're you know they're sad. They don't wanna be alone whatever and that was just really sad to think that our lady could hear that ah but i did find it strange that they went from thinking that there's an intruder to maybe some sort of a bird up in the attic. I'm thinking well. I don't think it was a parrot there. It is things me the whole story when you actually read it as a factual document makes no south. No it's really weird. Live is a very nonsensical tale. If it were to be true i would probably fall on the lines that <unk> all ladies these imagination yeah maybe wishing that an old companion of has was still with my they might be somethin' own well. We we just don't want. Nobody would just say you know it just it. One of them store was as equally saad is nice boy. Were the waits one level. I'm not sure but i kind of thought that that lady isn't fair anymore. There's somebody else there in that home yeah yeah it is sad when you think what the mind can do you know but yeah it was very touching. Let's say okay so what was your favorite story in the bullpen <hes> favorite one without shadow of a doubt walls all into woods in <unk> leads poyton woods tail has everything everything of a sort of classic witchy ghost story was a little bit <unk>. News makes phenomenally unusual on the stalls else with a russian prince called. If i remember pronounce his name brooklyn steen vladimir wrong how you pronounce his wits on his own goal was cecil gascoyne cecil gus going any owned pauline hall was invited over for the summer so when the prince came it was said to the absolutely slowly obsessed with steam trains in in rail engines and everything like this so he decided that he would spend the week going up and down over your gotcha on the different rail lines they which was a time offers for the best in the world and gave some of the best views and by all accounts out really nice trip only only seventh day that's when things go really really strange trip so a wanted off into the woods just a wall mosaic and never approach came by and he's never been seen all hood off since obviously because it was russian nobility was a monstrously big shrimp rupaul police revolved volunteers everybody to stitch the world's <unk> any sign or trays what so ever and there were just not found the strange range thing was the kep sickly roundly warn trae and no one really could understand why there were signs of clothing upload or struggle or any reason season would have took the dogs to the tree but it was all documented in the report now that was pretty much the end of the story it would have ended there until nineteen ninety seven in palmerston hull was eventually toned down and that's when they became quite mysterious in its own way when the orangerie was demolished. The wiegmann victim found buried within the walls pile of hundred papis. This is all as well the wrong show in the museum and you can go and see them. When they examined zaandam they believed on examination from on right expects to have been written by sessile gus goings to say overweight centric perfect wife back at the time of the disappearance hired help on the state would often whisper about lady constance gus coins strange obsession with anything colt really she was obsessed by it was very strange lady. She didn't like being in the public high whereas a husband successful was happy to raises and you know really be be the big landowner in the area constance on the other unpreferred said in the orange reading strange books about witchcraft magic and locking her away in what she describes lives is a realm private room which was the address when reading a little bit more into the papers they found it was concentrated around <unk> tree with impala world. What's the trees really strange. Auditory distractions day is split from two roots and it almost looks like likes <unk> help yeah. It was really weird now. Just around the corner from this is another strange tree the big job in the bowl and he's he's one of them trees that you look up it. Just just sends a chill down your spine israeli old in crooked in the east so fake so dead. Is it looks. It's like something out of a tim. Burton movie is really yeah just just below so as the reading through all these lessons seen about these trees and then finally the the the the paul where the the prince disappeared which nobody was really expecting to find lady constance lax's claimed that the prince had just i've been wondering why now almost around the woods in exploring the area on his last day when he backs lonely stumbled upon lady constance us going away quite a few their friends were in the middle of the naked ceremony of witches the left <hes> then goes on to tell at the anger all the witches fell that the alad described it as your mind was enjoying the flashes of their bodies all they were conducting what they believe to be a religious ceremony japan it goes on to say that the other witches were screaming at lady constance to render the woman dome so that he couldn't tell us anything they'd seen upon the prince also all set off into the woods really sprinting as well as the railway line was the only all the world's from this point in new it would be able to get to arlington hall from the which is all i thought trump together lady constant says at this point she hit the trump bush was unable to stop it because they were all in so loudly together and right before there is is the old man screamed arrived in pain as he's legs tend to routes followed by his entire body in the tree the now seats this day now <hes> yeah obviously the story is sounds like something out of the fairytale in you know you have to think about cannot have possibly be true what what countless that kept circling not tree with the two legs and these letters of laid consists she breaks up into a wall with witchcraft witchcraft paraphernalia found a couple of hundred years after the break them into on the first place exactly eastern absolutely salaam phenomenal story a one that you know obviously i- rational mind just things marconi true but then when you sort of peace it altogether he just think hosters. That's just really bizarre. Did she have to write it to get it out of her system. See exactly knew. She couldn't tell anybody because people would think she was bonkers. Conquers so jumped rights at all about it yeah just needed to pro se in her own way and then she buries it in the wall so nobody he could but the trees still there and it's still quite a big attraction up in politics. Woods are member rightly when you go to police in woods is oh a sign posted full fly lane think you follow up track all the way down bring street of the tree and also the alleged tree of the debt. Which is they want us to l._a. How well i think we'll have to do a vacation one day and try to hit some places. Can that was your favorite story. I got to save my favorite story is the one about your library and it really brought me back to the ghostbusters movie. You know the first ghostbusters movie. We've got the ghosts reading in the library. All the old chuck chopped with the book yeah yeah when i was in a i see in that seat in my head about i'm not gonna <hes>. Tell our listeners about an hour. We'll leave them to to find that one in dangling care no because that's a really good story so i have everything i think already know the answer this because of the conversation that we had earlier out of the investigations that you've done has anything now has it totally convinced you of the afterlife and ghosts. Do you think that there are just too many stories night for them all to be folklore all to be you know made up. All all do think it's tails. There's been nothing convinced me. There's certainly been enough to take from a hardened skeptics who say say open-minded yeah things that make <hes> interesting though if things to make so that's interesting because you just yourself there originally as a hardened skeptic so oh yes so how has changed your opinion has changed my opinion or not a defendant of yes. I believe that believe that's on the other. This is how i always look at it. You know whether you're out in haunted our so you're doing this stuff over the east east dr <unk> awards or you decide on reading a horror story. Ultimately is all statement. People tell you that they become permanent investigators because they want to know. The truth of the fight to the meyer is the true for them and you know he's. He's a bidding question biz months ago nafil office entertainment statement so if you're if this safe and they're enjoying it you know me. That's all absolutely absolutely. Where can people find a little bit more about you. I'm on facebook. If you look for nick tyler all you will find mill now okay. Do you have a website yet for the book arnie's and all that i've got website coralline to go in but it's not live yet so i'm not to show the u._r._l. Will be okay when you get that. Let us know and we'll definitely mentioned on a future show and let people know about it. Okay yeah fish. Do you have a publication vacation day on the book from the second. It comes up. It's available now but it will hit the actual shops in on september second excellent so get yeh <hes> in now with as you heard is on preorder no so definitely recommend this one but these days anyone has the ability to who wrote a book in terms of this apps out there that help you allow to self publish and all the rest of it and so without disrespect to some authors. We haven't had any any of them on our show. Luckily but some of the books that we've read in our entrust this subject have been slim. Let's let's say yeah and you can tell that they're written by someone who has an interest in it but doesn't necessarily have the skill to be held yeah. I think you need to be a storyteller and and i can honestly say this hand on heart that your book i said at the start. It really does draw you in encourages you read more. I'm not from yorkshire. Uh visited yorkshire but you know it doesn't necessarily hold anything to me but i got something out of it because the stories could be happening here. You know and you tell them. I'm in such a way that it brings you into makes you feel a part of it. So i just want to say from our point of view. We really did enjoy and we can only recommend it to our listeners really thank you so much. If when you're interested in a will offer you if you can rule competitions for your bullishness. I will certainly send you guys a signed copy what he's out. If you want to give one away and obviously the mo yeah well we would love to do that. Thank you very much definitely yeah. Thank you very much. Well listen and a pleasure talking to the book once again. Leads gentleman is haunted yorkshire sure and the author we've been speaking to today is nick tyler. Thanks once again is very much. I hope you'll enjoy that. Unfortunately it's just me now because beleza to hotfooted off to work once again. Don't forget you can hit us up all of the usual places instagram twitter. We're on facebook now. We have a facebook page. If you wanna check on there and maybe like our page absolutely fantastic ruining a couple of likes on there so far we will give you details when we get the book off high to win signed copy from nick tyler. If you wanna send us an intro tro or anything else you can mail it to mail at weird wacky wonderful dakota u._k. But until then please do stay we it wacky. I'm wonderful so you guys see see that one <music> yeah <music>.

yorkshire trump beck michael facebook nick tyler hynek mike cole doncaster george greenwood cashew ozzie amazon norman white lady constance darren brian rhode brendan jones
06  We Travel to the Land of Yorkshire Puddings, Cask Ales, and Lots of Castles

Life in 16 oz.

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

06 We Travel to the Land of Yorkshire Puddings, Cask Ales, and Lots of Castles

"Who dismount excuse me we're looking for the holy grail and we saw above your pub because we aren't the holy grail pop so so. Do you have one because we do. Maybe look at it. You may not but you can have in sixteen ounces. Hello welcome. What are you drinking. We'll have a live in sixteen ounces please. She is welcome to life and sixteen ounces the show does it raises the pike to the explorers. The adventure seekers always wanting to break free from the north to fill their glasses with memorable experience and the basically have a good time. I'm i'm brandon. God save the queen anne. I'm paul. Let sick another drink our let's go. You're listening to live in sixteen ounces or a pain in this episode. Paul goes full monty on traveling to his birthplace jolly old england and dr sixteen hundred miles over nine days on the wrong side of the road next he gets the golden ticket the tour a brewery held in high regard worked there timothy finally he meets up with his british cousins and asks them hard hitting questions like what is spotted dick yeah and if you speak english. Why can't we understand you. Hold it in our usual crack on this episode of life in in sixteen hours all right episode six here we are. Hey it's good to see you man jeeze. That's right. Welcome back right yeah. Sorry going to the accident warning. This is <hes> this is what we were talking about before and this is going to be a very different you might already guessed different episode from the rest because because this is our special travel edition of the trip i took to united kingdom yes by the way england and scotland so yeah i if i can i would love to weave the nine day at a very fast paced because you've traveled with me before you went to ireland together so i did it almost the same thing and i want to be able to feature some of the cool the things that we might have so you were constantly busy the whole time. Yes visible drinking man. I can't wait to hear some of these story. I shouldn't say that because i just told you that we just did sixty eight hundred miles. I'm the one that drove so. I couldn't drink all the time but i drink and i will tell you this. I got a speeding ticket. Oh boy tim miles over fifteen. I've no idea i haven't got it yet but the rents company said you gotta take it. We don't know what it's like but here's here's a warning and like i'm very curious. I know i know where it was and i know what day but i don't know how much over in certainly biggest thing how much is gonna the cost well. We'll get right into the stories right after we crack open our beer of the episode i can't wait. I want to beer beer michigan's road alcohol suck. I can't take this this much longer. Gotta have brilliant before we dive into our stories. In the few minutes at wonderful sound you heard means it is time to feature. Did you revere to help us get down the hole that fish and chips. We've we've been eating yeah. I'm so glad you didn't say spotted dick. We might drink more but do not tell the royal family a what is on the tasting menu here at the pub well for this episode. You actually brought brought it and man so glad you did this beer. We used to be able to get at bev mo right. I would say you're wrong at that. That's okay well. It was it was it was a come and go kind of thing but yeah for me if i saw it on the shelves i i bought every last ask john it was like parting the red sea. You'd see the little label and then i'm like. Is that one back there and you part all these other beers and you go. There's four back there. We are talking about timothy taylor's which is one of the places that we will be talking about in this episode and it isn't reporter now to get this beer <hes> you can find it in california in a couple of locations. That's why i want to throw a shout out to wine on piedmont mont out of oakland. Thank you so much for having the beers in stock and i ordered them and i felt this is weird. It felt like it was like one of those super fast delivery situations where i ordered and then like i opened the door within hours and i'm like it's already here. They the expedited the hell out of that thing. Wow then maybe i might have just hit buttons. What's the place called again it. Why not piedmont wine on on piedmont there. It is three times you should be able to remember it so timothy taylor's they are based out of keithly in yorkshire the name of the beer that we're having as their flagship landlord it is a classic pale ale. What rule looking at right now. Now is pretty fairly sized good bottle because i'm glad that it's not one of those breaking bottles because i would have really been extremely expensive so i'm kinda glad it has a little to know this. Is this literally fill up. Your is sixteen ounces right and remind you might have seen this on our social media pages because i think the the general on the front of the label looks like an old older brained just put on a red vest so so this is from eighteen fifty eight on the bottle addle got this beautiful barley collection at the top and of course championship beers and running right into a to the beer advocate dot com rating that they give us out of five they give it a four point one an an outstanding score see we're not we're not blowing. No not at all ops up your ass. I mean i would probably rate this little higher than that myself but some some of the notes that they have down is that it is a classic pale ale traditionally brewed using the finest golden promise malted barley whole leaf hops and knowles spring water must be something over there. You'll hear about it. <hes> it is a it has a clear golden amber with a thick fluffy head with the smell versus versus what the landlord on the label looks like he didn't have a thick lafayette. Oh he's he's he's receiving like myself. <hes> the taste is a crisp and floral mouth feel with a notes of citrus and rye saltines and a hint honey what this says dude. It's like one hundred five degrees in the studio right now watering. I'm sweating from every orifice in my body. I'm ready to drink but took this out. We have brand new feature here right life in sixteen ounces. We have a temperature gun so i'm going to shoot the bottle with my laser laser and let you know by the way like belgian ales sour ales box english bidders and mild scottish ales all those years ears should be served between fifty and fifty five degrees fahrenheit this beautiful thing that we're looking at now actually tell you you very clearly landlord is a beer by the way all in caps best drunk between eleven celsius and thirteen celsius and you do the math on that because i i can't do and i'm thinking so we we dry freezes too because that's really cold beer. Oh the celsius part yes. I actually looked it up and it went good. It's i think it's fifty one to fifty three degrees. Okay so shoot that shoot that laser temperature controlled gun or whatnot lynn. Let's see rack all right at the neck must've just grabbed it. We're looking at fifty two o fifty two. Oh i get a little warm at the top of the neck buddy. We might want to crack this sucker. We've actually took it out of the refrigerator and headed sitting a couple of minutes did get to temperature here so let's see i'll go and crack this this thing open here here we go. I can't wait temperature done sweet man. Those bet you did it. Who there we go. All the way from england. Paul has been dreaming this stuff the whole time he was teasing me about it and now i finally get to have some in my glass. I'm bob salivating. It's ridiculous. You went in july and i think i still have some of my system. Oh my gosh that's liquid. Gold is what that is geez. I have well. You'll see if you can see it on social. Media is an english cup. It's quite johnny. It's actually quite royal very kingly you will yes got the succor from castle gift store for the whole podcast purpose so there you go very well all right. I'm this interesting choice. This is phenomenal choice at this. This is in my top five. It should be in your top five as well. You've heard us talk about it. I don't wanna talk anymore. I want to go and drink so we will. Maybe share a taste as if we even have left yes all right cheers. I listen to live in sixteen ounces. What's in your mind. What's in mind you ask timothy taylor's landlord. They are jumping right into your nine day itinerary of this amazing using trip that you had over seas lots of details right no. I'm not gonna latitude. No that this ridiculous i've i got printed massive massive printed material you've been on one of these trips with me to ireland <hes> like <hes> and i kind of approached it the same way sunup to sundown just completely just almost almost to the hour. Maybe even to the minute but no i had. I had a different crew with me. Obviously see family friends and i wanted. I didn't wanna dragged through the mud. If you will been there before wanted to do something a little different so you arrive especially from the west coast yeah we arrived at six fifty in the morning in manchester airport on a tuesday we go and get the nine passenger manual ford van and of course i'm very apprehensive and i get in it and everyone's all excited in the nice doll i get used to the clutch had to get used to having the the stick shift on my left hand so it took a little bit of cautious driving initially but my drive to get reoriented back to driving driving in the u._k. With an hour and twenty five minute drive to a place called malam and that was your first beer right yeah well after an hour and twenty five minutes white-knuckle knuckle thing i'm like i need a fucking bear. That's really early. No no it's not no so malam is in south yorkshire dales national park beautiful place place the actually have a place called malan cove and if you look it up. It's m. a. l. h. A. m. and we're gonna we'll post. All this stuff to oliver sites there there you will find a limestone pavement and you can actually see it in the harry potter and the deathly hallows movie part one. It's really cool either standing up there. I forgot what part was transported themselves magically to escape some sort of ghost or something but it's really neat. You'll you'll see it and you go us. That's exactly. I know exactly he's talking about. After that. <hes> we went to the ribble head viaduc. It's thirty thirty six minutes away. This is famous because has everyone will see it as the hogwarts train going along that really long arched multi arched bridge on the way to the to the school puffing along in this beautiful countryside. That's called the ripple head viaduc in nice where we had our first beer places called station in we walked fin and at the bar they had a ripple head bidder from settle brewery prudent yorkshire dales. They had a terrell or therelw burry eighteen seventy five which is a classic pale. They were a little warm. Everybody always asks british of warm beer and this case yes he did but did they have powder porter potter porter the wing god you love llosa most livio so after that <hes> sorta disappointing first beer we took off for place called skipped optin which is about an hour <hes> sort of south east and we we hit up our first pie and mash shop great stuff huge hit definitely something you should try and when i say pie i don't mean like apple pie and whatever pie cherry cherry pie though this is like a meat pie. Oh okay after that we went to <hes> you know rouse born we just harrogate and we hit up a supermarket. The reason why i'm telling you this is is because you know we're starting ask people. What do you do when you go into a super. What's your what's your choice of of beer this case on their shelves. They had john smith's eighteen fifty two. Hello suckers been around. They brew it out of tadcaster astor north yorkshire owned by heineken. It's the highest selling bidder in u._k. Since mid nineteen ninety s very popular her well i i would say it's very prevalent not very popular and you'll hear that later in the show but you can yeah. That's something that you can get here. Yep okay okay get here. You can also get samuel smith's yes. I love a loyalist out yeah good stuff <hes> organic <hes> apr ikat <hes> <hes>. There's quite a few of before packing. I think the yeah i think they're great. That's yorkshire's oldest brewery by the way is samuel smith after that we went an found our home away from home in place called marchington nice little cute village next to the yorkshire riding centre or school cool. Yeah that's where we're resettled. Anathema something completely different so day to day to no rest for the wicked woke up to be out of here <unk> by eight o'clock so we have a two hour drive to place call anik nets a l and i c k just me. I was corrected many sometimes but anik the location of a castle from the eleventh century. It's north of newcastle east coast on on the north sea film location by the way because of transformers last night. That's with a mark wahlberg berg and anthony hopkins. I'm i may miss that one downton abbey maybe a fan favorite out there and of course harry potter water the hogwarts training academy where they had all the brune broomsticks anxiety right yeah so he had that and robin hood prince as if these not mennonites men in tights but that would have been even better though way well preserved beautiful castle astle tons of activities including by the way for kids you can actually go and jump on a broomstick and sort of like doing adam sandler around the council the thing my wife owns one of those so fans earl grey away people who love the tea out there rejoice patrick stewart right engage. We headed to howick hall. It's birthplace what i learned was. There's this chinese men serving under charles a second earl grey he uses <hes> bird gum motte might be saying that wrong it was to offset the taste of lime in the water from the estates well and wa there you go. Earl grey was created interesting. I thought it'd be i. I thought it'd be like a brewery tour meemaw eight t from england eight t but fell flat that didn't turn it didn't turn out like a matter of fact we didn't even do it. We were dissuaded said you know what fine forget at lunchtime came up and with help from a local we stopped at a place called the cottage in awesome place in in town or village i would say of called dunston and enjoyed some hadrian border beer <hes> real quick. They have a couple options coming again out of a cask tyneside. There's blonde tyneside brown of foreign island secret secret kingdom. Check him out really cool place beautiful beers and i'll i'll. I'll say it right off the bat. I had a lot of beer and i can say maybe one beer. I didn't like the amazing and apps fell in love with a whole cask situation but again hadrian border beer we had it with fish and chips and steak and ale pie. You're gonna start seeing a theme here. Fat and happy we <hes> we headed north to check out this place called lindisfarne priory this is the place is a holy island and had has medieval a monastery on it. It's really cool but it's it's looking well. As we were driving. My intention was to hit it but i was like we don't hit it. That's fine yeah but we hit this watery end. Literally like dusty bottoms jeff literally the road to the island. It's like a causeway <hes>. I thought it would be like a sound or some sort of shallow whatever you cannot reach it unless it's low tide. So how long did you have to wait. I said screw with the water was receding and it was it was it was increasing coming towards us as we just parked there. Ah i'm like all right. We probably going to get out of here. Took some neat photos again you can find on our on our sites but <hes> we said we're pop smoke right here and from there we took off south south to bam bam berg castle the castle hit that place in really another awesome beautiful fool castles sitting up there high structure rock outcropping and that was cool cool day once we got back to marketing the village mercantile we met up with family in gathered had lots of beer in enjoyed some good time seeing that this is a recurring theme or it has to be men. Okay yeah lots severe the house. Finally i was able to convince my cousin lisa to tell me about her. First beer experienced also her favourite european a beer since she has traveled quite a lot throughout that continent and how she met the love of her life over in england he had to be eighteen to get in a bar and but at fifteen i went into my first bob and that's actually what i'm terry and he was stood at a fruit machine an i. Fruit machine is a slot machine like in vegas. You know you put your money and he had a pint big news baldy in these and i told him i was eighteen and that was my first beer right there. In the northeastern in harrogate it was now but it was actually probably it was probably tetley's if i'm only because that was the most popular theme back in the eighties tetley's tetley's bitter ally. I like german biz to be because you drink them. Slay you appreciate the taste. Editing is my favorite all time favorite and pauline. Ah paul lehman poulains second. Can you tell us that story. You might tell us yeah so okay so i go to the beer fest for the first time with my dad and he literally took me to one onside and did stuff he never he never told me how to ride a by call or sit with me and do my homework but he became a died at the entrance. If the paulina ten and said rightly called me liza three things you drink a stein and our aw no less you don't stunned on the bench and you appreciate. She ate every mouthful and we didn't do as we were told. We drank stein every half fowler. We stood on the bench. We broke the bench. We cracked something. He said he would he would never do is you cannot break the stein. You cannot break it. We cracked it. Big time crossed top yet bash yeah so yeah. That was my experience the best estelle i didn't do what my dad told me and we had the most amazing time amazing. It was amazing and we went two more times. After that yeah repeated yours yeah absolutely did listen to your parents stein in every half hour. I was gonna guess and yeah you just mix with great people you meet people you literally cheek-to-cheek she can the benches product in all the way and yeah is such a fun friendly. Time really is the best time of my life life festival absolutely now. I know what you're thinking. Brandon you do i can see the future brit surrounded by all that amazing english beard and she picks a german beer. Well you could say the same about us. Us bob's your uncle. I say but she goes out deutschland. Donnas and i was a little bollocks. I declared heard people like what was that sound that is i disappointed in german <hes> aw i don't want to mess up the pronunciation so have we have a special guest but there's a reason so in the reason is it's actually tied to to her dad joe darby who just passed away. If you are listening with a pint please raise it up for job all right. Thank you very much. It's day eighty three. Yes to me the taylor's day but the appointment until two o'clock. Oh do i sit around. Do nothing no folks. We're going somewhere so the morning thirty six minutes away. We drove into the yorkshire dales at and i'm gonna miss up but this is the juvenile you know his holy grail problem. No no not you again now. This is julie abby okay never mind but no holy grail eldar now an abbey right yeah they beer makers. That's what i always say i go into an abbey and i'm like gotta. Be gotta be some beer makers. Nope they may a cheese jesus really big in that in the yorkshire dales area middleham castle. Yes we hit up. Another castle ruins really cool cool thing about this place. This was actually had mead you could try oh so we had some of that and enjoyed that and then you're off to timothy taylor's zipping around the tight busy streets of keithly yeah where we finally were able to hone in on this breweries location. It was tucked in their walking in the front office. There on the main greeding monitor is my name cool is that they knew you. We're coming at that time yes. They knew i was coming while i had an appointment at two o'clock oh yes they knew i was coming and i didn't think they're going to have that kind of reception but i i i thought it would be really cool to see life in sixteen ounces up there but you know what i'll take and of course everyone's with me was like look at june mr paul way so we sat down with tim to hear the history of this one hundred and fifty plus year your family owned business which he believes rests in like seven core characteristics like values and excellent beer making practices tsa's for my own learning really i seven things i think we do at is not that no other brewer does any of those seven probably whereas we take all of them no other brewers ticks maybe more than three and what i learned is not that we have one thing that's sort of a knockout punch but if you get an extra three percent from each of those seven <hes> by the time you cumulated that up over seven it makes a big difference now. Tim is is fairly new with taylor's with five years on the job. He came from diaz gio. They one of the world's largest producers of spirits in beers who okay i'll give you a brand you you might no guinness so he came over there from them. As their global marketing director like for smirnoff now diaz jio like i said owns guinness to mentions the cornerstone reason why timothy taylor operates the way they do so just briefly on the on the company because i think the brewery wouldn't be doing what he's doing. We're not in the fact that it's still one hundred percent family owned and not only that but the articles association are written as such. The shares have to stay in the family to protect what we do. If you look you know the the shareholders like the dividend but if you look at the dividend they get paid versus what we could sell the business business for. They're not doing that much better off than if they had it in the bank and i think you know what interest rates people get paid in the bank these days but it's because they have a real passion for what the business does but an example of that would be. There's a woman bob's taylor. Who's the great granddaughter of timothy taylor. She's in her nineties and we believe she's gonna leave her shares to charity and in that instance what would happen is there's an independent valuation methodology and the shares would be valued and the charity would get the cash equivalent and the shares dares come back into the business because even nowadays you probably seem charities not always the benign organization that you might think and before you know it we own this. We could have more if you sold it for charity etcetera etcetera so we really want the shares in the hands of the family to kind of protect nurture what we do and i think we would have some of the compromises of let's call it quantity over quality that a lot of breweries have fallen into. I think if it wasn't for the family sitting sitting behind the business we would have fallen into that same those same traps on the wall also appeared a taylor with the queen now. I'm not talking talking about felt freddie mercury but knowing not the band i really but you are you a brewer. Did you could make yeah. He is actually a taylor hidden behind the band on the himmy rhapsody cover. You know what roger taylor actually is the drummer he can. Maybe i should be more specific. I'm not that taylor an actual timothy taylor on the chap on the right quite good looking chap on the right is this john taylor and he was the last taylor to run the brewery and he became lured in grow so that's him in a picture with the queen in in his his and her younger days there so he got quite involved with politics and ended up becoming lord lieutenant which is kind of a honorary role of yorkshire and aw and he he didn't have a son he had two daughters and a thirty six years back or whatever <hes> wouldn't have been whether the daughters were interested. Certainly i know talking to them because they're both still alive. They weren't really encouraged to get involved with the brewery but the interesting bit is the two two daughters married two brothers. The brothers and charles dent came into the business to work for effectively his father-in-law lording grow so you could say from that perfect straight line of the brothers there charles was the first anglo off because he'd married into the family he amidst after thirty plus years in the drink industry. He had no idea you've never heard of timothy taylor's when he was first approached with the opportunity to work for them now despite their flagship beer the landlord winning championship beer of britain four times timothy taylor still isn't known on all over the british isles now in perspective this new me. Mr research perspective in the u._k. Is about the size of of michigan so you hopefully can imagine the distribution roughly the same as a local microbrewery. I i looked around where i live. Heretic to me is fairly small but they have a larger distribution footprint napa smith also near me larger thinking. Maybe even dust bowl from your area but you prove me wrong. They've got their out there pretty far into the states yes of course you also said why don't you go into you're still a supermarket and you can find crypto they are so it's basically beers that you can't find over seven hundred miles away from your home is is an idea of the extent of timothy taylor's so that's like that's like mount shasta to san diego l._a. To albuquerque new new mexico who okay for east coasters out there baltimore to milwaukee just there's not a lot well obviously the united states is very large and you can throw them on a truck and they can go pretty damn far and you can get that beer out into multiple states but u._k. Is limited by okay how far they can go. Yes they send them to the united states but again. The amount of their distribution is not even on par with most of what we consider. I guess microbrewers. Here's some here's some insight into the u._k. Beer market some of our audience listeners longtime beer drinkers might have noticed this actually happening to their favorite drink if you took the u._k. Beer market it really hasn't done and <hes> justice to itself back to this kind of pilot high sella cheat mentality at the risk of going for too long but i mean just very briefly. The kana hope a loss to be generally was one of okay. We want to get business <hes>. How do we get the business well. That's offer a keen price kind of by this business again this business so so you offer keen price you get that business all of a sudden. You realize you're not making very much money because you've offered a keen price so then we'll how can we say money because we were a fixed price. Now can't go back on it so i don't know what if we tinker with raw materials or the process a bit and some of the better ones leaving do consumer research this. This is the beer under the old pros the new president. Can you taste the difference and maybe the answer is no but then the point is two or three years later they go and do it again. Dan but what they don't do is go back to the original beer so if you think to begin with a versus b. when they do the next test. It's be versus e c versus versus de. Will you do that three times and over a period of time all of a sudden if you did take beer e and compared to beer a it is nothing thank you stripped all the quality out of it and it's a very <hes> the ale market in the u._k. Is a very flat pricing structure. Most markets breakdown into super premium premium <hes> standard products think vodka smirnoff absolute grey goose or whatever i was amazed coming new into aol four or four and a half years ago you go out into the pob and the republicans is absolutely true say to me. I love your beer selling great. I'm not making enough money on it because of your price nice to us and i'd say okay well. You got four ails there. What what what. What are you doing. He said what's your pricing to go three eighty eighty three eighty three eighty and i'd say they will what about you know putting up to four twenty. Oh no i can't do that. You know ailes only the same price now. This isn't an odd that that was very much the rule not the exception that mentality and this is absolutely true up still got the photo upstairs. I was in one of these outlets doing this. <hes> and i was kind of new in coming to grips this is very odd and then i turn i saw this chalkboard and i turned to my right and i said what's that all about it on the chalkboard and as i said i've got the picture so i can prove proof that's not an exaggeration was gin and tonics nine pounds fifty down to five fifty depending on which jin which i said well okay what stat over there then and it was like a little mini lightbulb went off but they were so used because aol. It's like the working man <hes> drinks. I'd be sexist but you know it was more a man's drink back working days you know people would have a lunch break from the mills or whatever and so the view was you know it should be accessible price and everything else and even you know there's a society cba looks after small breweries and this is now if you look at now yeah i know they're changing it but they had this beer flex game to help small breweries access big customers and their price grid literally had the alcoholic strength four percent four one and the price per customer and basically if you there you receive abreu and you wanted to sell to this customer that was the price so you could be producing the the finest ingredients the finest quality controls attention to detail but your expected to sell in at the same price as somebody who might not know what they're doing etcetera etcetera but this is the a._l. Market and i think the thing that really you know pushed it for me was <hes> in terms of getting the job here was i came from the spirits market and i think they saw law that was absolutely aghast at the hallway. The beer market looked or not look after itself and these sorts of issues so one of the things i've done charles was doing it but let's say in a less us a formal weight and have more formal background. I've had doing the value chain analysis of pricing but our whole initiative with the sales guys is look prices up prices fifty pint more and we will still sal well and it will do justice because we were getting our march and because we refuse to compromise on our price because it's a it's a disrespect to the efforts guys put in brewing the beer and the consumer getting a good deal but it was the public in the middle off who's seeing their margin squashed and so the whole challenge was to get them you know increase the price fifty and the interesting thing. Is you know if you're smirnoff or grey goose news that grey goose price. You don't expect to sell the same as smirnoff but at a higher priced but what we found is at fifty p freeman because people can taste the difference we still end up being the best selling ale on the bar because people drink and it's great quality and fifty p in the grand scheme of things isn't affordable luxury. There is not like buying a rolls royce motorcar whatever so now before he went on the brewery tour brandon so tim mentions government enacted small brewers relief as for like a discount on a high duty rate. I think it's part of like your distribution you how much you actually sell sell your product for because it helped the small brewers in it. Well basically caused an explosion of about two thousand some breweries to just pop up. It drove pricing way down for them because they were getting a discount. It doesn't really affect the big. Boys is in the tap room. The ones that you've definitely heard of but to the taylor's is sort of like right in the middle okay so now they have to compete pete with these upstarts and actually caused him to request a review of this relief now. Here's my disclaimer hope. I'm getting this pretty close. Sorry tim now more about the meat and potatoes because that's what we're getting into the brewery dame right all right now of their beers the meat and potatoes which is more specifically. I would say the barley now speaking of barley. I would like i would like everybody to know that marley bolted by the way he'll be playing at the garage tap room friday nights because apparently he's he's a big hit now. I actually looked up. There's no such thing unfortunately but we be bruin bruin phenomenon. Somebody should name. They're they're banned. Marley vaulted because now for some reason i i can't say it wrong. Golden promise is there barley. It is from the united kingdom rush rolling hills of agricultural over there 'cause they get lots of rain there along so two of the three hops that go into the landlord which makes up eighty percent of their production is from the united kingdom kingdom two of the three hops which again view talk hop st- anybody in america oh yakima and and so a lot of the west coast stuff but there hops from the u._k. The third one comes from slovenia and again. Homebrew is might recognize this. Hopefully i'm saying it right. Styrian goulding's is the name of the hops and never been using that sucker's since the nineteen fifties. Tim also explains his number one. I mentioned yes seven so here's his number. One of why timothy taylor is different from the rest so let's start out with number one which is the barley <hes> so <hes> <hes> we use malted barley timothy taylor used the malton himself feel maltings up there where now is malted forest by a third party to our specification that comes comes in but we use golden promise mall which is a very high specification malt macallan malt whisky used to use it for their <hes> bars until they couldn't get enough of uninfected simpson's who do the malt most the molting forest and buying the seat to protected and to keep it growing so we can <hes> we could continue to use it interestingly ah understand they're now selling quite a lot of it into the u._s. <hes> because a lot of u._s. craft brewers when they got going ask what is it the landlord uses golden promise and so they've got a good export business which actually helps us because it's a tricky to grow so the more farmers growing at the more there is you know the more flexibility and and if i tell you that we actually have quite tight spec within it so it's not like any golden promise we'll do so i mentioned charles and his brother both farmers here in yorkshire and they both grown golden promise and we'd taken great pleasure in rejecting is not obsessed factory quality for timothy taylor's beer here is number two number two is the water water and the whole reason we're here the no spring now a lot of breweries just tap into the mains and there's nothing wrong with brewing with mains water but it's not unique anyone else can grab that means water with with us. We have our own wells about three hundred feet deep <hes> the knoll spring and that water has its own character and brings a character to our to our beers. Which is the reason. We're here on this site site in brewing. It's called liquor so if you're in a brewery and you hear liquor <hes> unlike america like liquor store in brewing liquor is nothing alcoholic hollick. It's just the liquid normally hot that used in the brewing process now at the barley barley station. We had a chance to nibble unson golden promise man. Just pop it in your mouth. What you notice is really multi taste and also i'm sweetness and the whole reason for the sweetness is that's the sugars that are inside the barley and that's what we need for the brewing process s. is we want the sugars so i'm just going to give you a very simple offices. View of what molting is all about those. You might not know so if you imagine the barley is grown in the fields. It's harvested and it's brought into a big hopper but at that point it's not suitable to use for brewing. It needs to be more for distilling for that matter. It needs to be malted and what that process is is effectively fooling the barley into thinking it's been the barley seed into thinking it's been planted granted in a field so what they do nowadays and barrick is they'll put it into a big tank with warm water so it's moist nice warm dark work and so the c. thinks i'm in the ground. I need to start doing fit. I need to start germinating so it starts the germinating process and inside inside the the kind of individual husk the little bit that's going to become the plant search to grow and when it gets an inside also sugars all get developed left which are the nutrients to help that grow and what we do in the molting process when it's about two thirds of the way done we drain it dry it off and the one i saw massive passive you know like the equivalent of a hairdryer but a thousand times bigger drives it off so defectively it puts it into suspended animation but what's in the barley are those nutrients that have been developed and that's what we need for brewing and a bit like the husk and all that actually goes to waste in fact we we sell it a very a modest price to local farmers who use it for animal feed and what you can feel when you bite into it then is you're doing we. We're going to see the mills in a minute. We put it through a mill which like your teeth cracks the bar leaks so that you can access the nutrients and then you warm saliva think of that brewing liquor that accesses the sugar and the maltese altemus and that's what we're doing in the next part of the process the molting process that will look so we walked into the grain hopper which is always quite loud and that that moves massive amounts of the golden promise into the mill again in neat neat thing to see. We'll have photos up there as well and you can hear some of it right now. The mill consists of that's the heavy roller and they're set for the win. The mall goes between the roller. They kinda crushed them. All make the inside accessible but the important bit is they are done that way to crush it not polarized because when we look at the mash tun look at net at the bottom of the mass punter false place with slits in them and if we made it too pasty to flowery it would turn into pace when the liquor hit it and they clog up those slips. We wouldn't get the right circulation in the next stage so it's all about you know. We don't set it every week. You look at the the depth. The harvest is coming in how big and then just tweak it but to make sure you don't smashed they brew brew about four days a week doc <hes> monday through thursday and clean friday and over the weekend they ferment and tim explains a busy day so a busy day hey for us. I'm gonna use my language. A busy day for us will be on to double bruce which they would call four bruce john god that's a nickel mega day 'cause they call the big room mega mega mega day so basically a busy day will be two mega bruce is to double bruce move onto the mash done. This is a giant vessel. If you look at the material you see there. The physical material is actually waste material. I was in the league. That's will go off for feed. What we're interested. In is the liquor the war <hes> it's called ward at this <hes> as it gets into the stage because what it's doing is circulating through <hes> picking up the nutrients now. We pushed the ward through those plates at the bottom to refloat the mall because again it's to make sure that all the surface area of the malls can be assessed by the liquor to pick up all the nutrients because the quality of the amount of beer etc you get. It's all down to the yield. You get by making sure you've extracted all the <hes> goodness derek call from from what's here and walking on tim revert verts back to what quote all for that taste of taylor's and quote truly means. We use fobel's officers the u._k. U._k. <unk> hop. It's really prone to wills now. We have to do give the farmers a really a high price an incentive to grow it because they're taking a risk that if they get the will that's the crop up and so the the reason we kinda came up with his martin off of that taste of taylor's. Is you know it's not just what the brewery workers do here. It's what the farmers do everybody. Does you know we don't have the full goes well. We're doomed. We're not gonna have the landlord or we don't have the golden promise or or whatever and similarly similarly we'll talk a little bit about the real ale and the fermentation secondary fermentation and the landlords not only pay high price for our beer but our fear. There's really awkward to deal with in their pups seller and i'll explain to that why that is not because we're getting things wrong now. He's mentioned using fogel hops chiefs. I love that by the way is that part of fraga. Rocker is dead today today. Don't put thompson. We should probably get a mascot dude. We shouldn't have like a fragile rock hop. You said fogel hops huddle hops. I got that one right not like marley. Early bolted me don't miss up fungal hops and <hes> and proud to say that i've actually used in my bruise but not at their level here is number three on tim's list unit. Take out one of these hops in kinda crushing. It literally is like the flower that you would see growing knowing now. Nowadays most breweries have moved to using pellets. If we were about convenience okay i could have a week's hop palace all this stacked up here instead what we have to do for our hops we have to fight all these barrels up the side of the building with a special cage cetera and they're not laid out yet for today's brew. You probably saw the night there four or five down there well. When i gave you earlier tour it was all laid out there about about six buckets up there in about another ten there and i said to the people that's just for the one with a one brew and then we have to do it again and funny every tour something difference happening when we were doing their tour we were actually in the process of quaking these bales up the outside of the building and they were like we can't believe you're doing that and i'm like to me. It's the perfect example of we looked at the pallets before my time but we don't feel they give us <hes> the quality of the flavor that we get from using holy pumps so we're sticking with them. Even though it's a pain in the tail <hes> we have to have two purpose built refrigerator facilities where we can keep the hops. Keep the humidity right the temperature low so they're in the right condition now the interesting thing about hops. Is you know if you feel very dry and if you smell them. There's very little smell but what i would encourage you to do is is take one or some of these and rub them vigorously between thumb and forefinger and what you'll feels like an oil come off and and then when you've done that now smell your hands after that oil and all of a sudden you get a fantastic pop. The smell is intoxicating now. I'm not talking about studio we we don't i thought she just larry my cologne. Let you lead out somehow fogel no i. I think i'm going to actually grow some hops in my backyard. The whole place smelled like my garage. I'm rudy so the word gets pumped into a boil with the whole leaf hops but not just willy nilly who s unlike a propping gentlemanly they deny part of our sciences knowing win you know which hops when and everything else but it's all about this balance between as i say if you put an earlier and longer more bitterness you lose the delegate flavors later less bitterness but you got the delegate flavors and of course for different views. You've got different hops different proportions etc. Here's number four the back. So what happens is when it's done in the copper. The liquid gets dropped into this vessel here where there are more fresh hops ops and it sits with those hops kind of think of water steeping with tea leaves and because it's lower it's still quite hot but it's lower temperature not boiling it allows it to pick up some of the delicate notes that are lost above now as i say a lot of brewers to do this and then they said oh you know two people notice if we just ran it from here into the fermenting vessels saves us time money you can just get on with it. We'll get our guys have done trials and we don't believe we got the depth of flavor in the beer there if we didn't do the stage so we still do the stage even though we have to also lease pops up the building and bring them down here in bags and so forth so that's what the the hawk backstage is all about so then we stepped into the from rotation broom <hes> which is like cooled what's being cooled and then there was like nineteen vats of of beer resting in these <hes> like a giant like baking tins if you will how big are these bats like a small sized pool family like like <hes> above ground pool they're a double walled and they have the the noel spring well-water automatically flowing in between these these walls that <hes> keeps the temperature even each one of these were covered in what appeared to be a creamy foam head but at different levels so <hes> see there was one that was like barely covering the word there was another that was like sixty eight inches his thick and there's one that was overflowing into into like a collection been. Tim explains goes into number. Five and number six four point five is we have our own train of peace and that does contribute to the taste and not only that it's been going. I don't mean the same fame he's using generations for over thirty six years so we basically use these vessels. We'll put them up against the list harvest the using not paddle the brewers will look at what yeast which of the three the best most healthy yeast. We'll put that in the bucket the fridge and we'll use that for next week so it's like we're propagating with the children of and we've managed to keep attack going for over two thousand generations over thirty six years from now <hes> i sort of at a cost saving thing but actually probably he does say money but i'm told it's about <hes> we think we're getting an evolutionary benefits so this is mike and my novice explanation which is that we tend rented ferment at a relatively low nitrogen low temperature so our yeast has to do its thing under more challenging circumstances so the brewers view is by reusing the week yeast each week it learns if you know what i mean it gets. It gets better and better by being used at doing what it needs to do. Under our our conditions now points it comes back this whole real ale. What is the real ale. I'll be honest. I didn't really no when i joined the company here and a real ale is an ale that undergoes a secondary fermentation once put into the cast so what you're seeing here is the primary fermentation but the beer when it goes into the cast still has eastern it not talking about all these very invisible heath. We're looking at all the visible user still within what looks like beer and with with real ale that goes into the cast and while it's in the cast it does a secondary fermentation which improves its quality and taste and all now what what of a lot of breweries done they wanna make life easy for the public so what they do is before it goes into the cast they might put it through a centrifuge to get rid of three quarters orders of the year so they can say. It's a real ale because there's east in the past but excuse my freshen. It's doing bugger all the secondary fermentation you know because <hes> there's not a lot of yeast they're doing so it's like academically. Yes it is a real ale. How much is the the beer quality really being enhanced through the secondary fermentation which means some outlets can get it and three hours after they get. It's ready to serve when they get our beer. We say a minimum forty eight hours before you even think of serving it for our own pubs that we own we try let them keep it for a week to let that secondary fermentation do its thing so in contrast to what i've just said we let one hundred percent of the youth go broke through into the cast we go no centrifuge filtration all the yeast flows through and not only that we put in a little bit of sugar to kick hit on to to really give it offense acid fermentation but it means the beer is lively. It's gotta be treated with kid gloves but again. You probably learn from everything else. I've shown you. We don't do things here for convenience. We do think for for quality you know and that's what gives the beer the quality that secondary radiation and again as i said it's funny. I had this pub newcastle earlier and i said before i went into this. I said third <hes> eight of them. I said are any of you any of you work on handling our beer you know when when it comes into salad the two of them i said what would you get out of here. They're like all right pain in the tail. You know like absolutely. I said you probably have some beers already eddie up three hours don't you well let me explain to you why i went through and they were like they went away understanding it. You know we're just not gonna. We're not going to compromise for convenience because we are go as i said not quantity it's quality and it tastes people really enjoy so that's why i ascribe points five and six to the to the here's a little bit more about their fermentation process back to my point to show you how committed we are about the secondary relaxation nations for hubs that we deliver to directly. We won't let it leave here for at least a week so that we know it's a week having senator governor even gets to the pub where we asked them to hold it for a week. We don't do that with the national beer because it's been a week getting from a to b to c and and we visited their lab control room and met some of the brewers and learned a little of what's required to be a creator of the beloved beer brain so basically <hes> on the brewers we have five fully chained brewers they all had degrees in brewing from heriot watt university but then they come here and we tailor them to our ways so we we want everyone to have that kind of academic back but it's in scotland. I think it's an edinburgh nick obviously production must continue due to the demand of the usual suspects but timothy taylor isn't they're not sitting around dude then at watching the trendy beers takeover the industry they also experiment. I meant to stay up with the times. Tim shows us this. He showed this small-scale a burning system to me that resembled what you see in most <hes> u._s. breweries in this stainless steel conical vessels they were able to produce twenty casks of beer when i joined i'm they you know the tour de france cycle race them they they started the first stage was in yorkshire which is a really big big deal <hes> of this very quintessential french project and so the guys came up with a beer just for the short france called the champion it was a joke is supposed to be the champion but typically the champion and it was a blonde beer and what i was told was when they created that beer and this shows you the skill of these guys when they created that beer the first time they brewed it was when it was for sale okay so they use their judgement and they used cecil spread hops hops and those are things they normally use but andy the man in the team's judgment was if we use this spa we'll get a great beer but literally we had customers waiting waiting for it and they brewed it for the first time and by the way it wasn't cracking cracking beer so you could say did they need this facility but i just felt you know with the blonde beer donald spring blonde they do a great beer the first time but they did they were able to tweak it to three or four or five iterations and kind of perfect it so it's really been <hes> been worth having but we didn't put it in for. There's a lot of them. Craft breweries like producing lots of derek call them dribs and drabs of beer. You know they want to produce. Twenty twenty beers a week or whatever that's not us. When we do our specialist beers we do one. We'll do our core beers and then like at the moment. We're doing optical storm but when that ends we'll move to something else but we don't do is just try and produce lots of it. Just doesn't make sense for us so brandon. I know you're at i. I know you're you're biting at this but i'm sorry to disappoint you buddy. We will not be seeing a seasonal pack from timothy taylor's. They're just not into it not not gonna happen. You know i beat myself up because looking back at bev mo not only did they have the timothy taylor on the shelf but they had rammed him right next to it and i never picked picked it up and i do not remember that at all oh my god sh- dang dude where those beers now bev mo cough him up yeah beverages and more we want to know why don't why aren't you carrying timothy taylor's g. You want justice unto the cask filling machine so this sucker moves cleans fills. It inspects it labels. This is a very slick machine again back to the ecology and what happens. It's easier to start at the end of it at the end here. The cast gets tennessee station. The last station gets jet of totally clean steam. The the three previous stations is a totally clean hot water very hot water but that water is recycled the three previous and recycled again to the first three station nations so the way to think of it is when the cask is at a dirty as it gets dirty rooms then it progressively clearance and it's cleaner and then finally three pure rinses this is and steam but it saves again thirty percent of water thirty percent on energy and we still get really clean casts. They also have have a lightsaber. What pretty cool yeah. Tim actually describes it in a great way. I call this the darth vader station because because you can see my lightsaber here and what we do it. This station is win. The cast come around the operator can put this into the <hes> <hes> the whole and you look through the keystone whole and you can see whether the cast is clean and again. We have somebody from a big brewer. Come round loved. You know see this and they do inspect one in every forty as a no. No we inspect one. We'll have read one cast to make sure before we put our precious beer in it's clean enough and it is not cleaned. We put it to one side and finally number seven number seven on my seven because i've ended six is the quality thing you know whether it's the british retail consortium accreditation aa whether it's kind of the inspection here oh i got a sense all the way through the process. There's such attention to detail fall again. I just think it'd be measured that up against other breweries. We'd come out very high. Tim wraps up the tour by showing how the casks wisc through the final stage stage and go off to to the pups an ins which some are owned and operated by timothy taylor employees and basically head off to the the the length and breadth of the united kingdom so this is the billing part of the process so we kind of saw how the caskets clean gene gets labeled and inspected the fed rolls along the back. There and the individual pass will roll forward and there's like a ultra-modern a red light there whatever and that picks up where the opening is fulfilling the the shy and it turns the cast automatically fleet so the shy the space up and then the operator over the oakland. I'm not going to do arm and that rumor bum will come down and seal itself into the cast and as soon as he or she done that the cast will automatically fill to the right amount and they can move onto the next one so there are five stations so if we're feeling a nine gallon cast by the time you get it going there and get to the end that one's almost done and then we manually hitting the bone hit the green button dropped down to the lower level roles in the back and comes around here and then that's a check that knows how much calf should weigh and how much the liquid should wave so if it's not right it it goes into that backwater we can check out where the problem is three walked outside in headed back to the main office but not before passing what i saw it was like a brick like a kitchen brick grill. Looking structure just happens to be the main reason the brewery where he was built here so the spring right there and you can tell that my brewers are not marketeers or they might have used the more interesting brick in putting my spring uncovered together but as the brewers just so focused on the quality of the beer so to them as long as the waters the right water you know because that's what happened the original wellhead you see that little bit of metal there so the original the original wellhead was there and it's got this big long shaft but the water wasn't isn't being extracted at a good rate and and it wasn't because the water wasn't there but it has like little slits in it and they'd gone clogged up so about two and a half years ago this was the backup well head and they realized it's much bigger so they said well. We're gonna move it across but again. It all happened. I mean i knew about the move across but this thing i came back four days later that had already been built and i was like you know as a marketing guy. Was you know that's the fun of our water. Couldn't you've used sort of change any when yorkshire stone stone or something over. It looks like the guys grill yeah exactly before we left. I asked three questions first. Why are there two landlord labels so the interesting thing and by the way the landlord labels the old one is still the only one available in the u. the u._s. and our u._s. distributors that they liked liked it but the reality was when i joined an all what was clear <hes> we had a very loyal consumer following but quite an old consumer the following and i know from all my previous experience you know brand has to keep recruiting a new generation of drinkers into it so one of the issues we had was our bottled product and bottled ale was starting to <hes> well in the u._k. Was starting to grow and develop because it hasn't been much of a category for it. Was we had this very old a fashion looking gentleman on the on the bottle so again as a marketeer one of the issues i had was people drink across. Sometimes you find the beer in the off trade grocery you. He likes you want to have in the pod vice versa and yet dare. I sound marketing here but you know the key visual equities. We're very different. You know barley sheaf in an old landlord man so the project project really emanate to do two things one was to unify the imagery and the second one was to update our landlord man <hes> and the thing was in unifying the imagery the last thing i was going to do is put the landlord man if we've got a problem with an older and maybe an old fashioned image start putting him on the pump clips when he you know in the pubs when he wasn't there to begin with so it was all about we wanted to go with the landlord and develop characters reached the beer <hes> but the reason it was partly sensitive was do remember i mentioned bob's taylor who's the great granddaughter of timothy taylor who might leave her shares to charity and all this will believe it or not bob's taylor either had done the original drawing that landlord man <hes> was done from and there was a bit of sensitivity about you know removing bob taylor's drawing growing from the bottles anyway we we have actually got through it but then bob taylor. That summer paid me a visit she was coming up anyway. Brewington lovely woman not very quick on her feet at ninety five really sharp mentally and welcomed her office and then the first thing she said to. Why did you change my landlord man like oh my god. I thought they told me it wasn't a problem with bob's like well really sorry. We should have let it would have been nice as if you'd let me know so <hes> but we did. I don't wanna sound like you know. We're a very informal company but we did some research on the different labels and the revised lies label had a much much better <hes> pull with younger legal drinking age consumers and so eventually even charles had have to accept that it was a good move and off. We went then wanted to know how has timothy taylor stayed a family business so long we don't get approach and the reason we don't get approach is everybody knows we're not for sale and the family will not when i say we don't get a president i get letters all the time spectrum from people in the city of london brandin who don't know us but what i mean is we never get industry approaches because anyone in the industry knows that we are ruthlessly <hes> independent in protecting our independence independence because i don't care what promises anybody gave if they bought this business i know assures hack. <hes> you know within a year. They'd have their efficiency experts in holy hops. He must be joking. You know get into the pallets. Do this do that or whatever the main shareholders there's i i would i think forty three shareholders <hes> but almost <hes> not quite two thirds of businesses over fifty percent of the business is still with the two daughters offers of lording grow or maybe with their those people on the board so really they the controlling interest is is not even just with the family. It's actually with two members of the family who are absolutely ruthless about the whole independence thing. I call on a minute so there's something that you're missing or missing from what you normally ask people. What about their their underage drinking who did say three questions right. Oh is that the third question yeah sorry. I really bouncing around everywhere. I lost you but yes. I did ask that question. That's my third question and tim had a good one one. I i remember my first proper drinking experience because it was it was awful. I <hes> i must've been probably is about fifteen. Dare i say it it and <hes> it's probably budweiser but listen to this so a bunch of friends and i say we're going to go out you know and have a few drinks we managed to somehow get a hold all the spear member we end up in these woods near the house with this fire and with the with the with the beer's whacking lacking and back and of course you getting really happy and i remember i remember say i can still sees clear day. I could see the scene around the fire and saying to my friends friends. You know losers fence has can we do this every weekend. Whatever anyway had brewer. She's just asking me about my i could but i remember my first beer-drinking finish off very quickly so anyway. Oh can we do this. You know anyway course got completely inebriated the end upbringing me home and we had a thing breezeway that connected the garage to the house and like a door and then two steps up another door and they got me up in my bedroom went to wait for their parents. I get outta bed. Go down. There will be a good host should be out of your way to your parents. They're checking a football around so <hes> now for a class called the football and crashed through the back door only from my mother who is a very straight laced woman to open up the other door two steps up and look down to see her son with his football and his arms like bling away. She knew exactly as you remember. Timothy your drug really well you know whatever for my dad has it so well because they put me to bed and i woke up the next morning with this thumping headache and my father came in and all he did. He came into the room from he said timothy not very clever last evening. All i want you to remember how you're feeling right now and then he left and close the door and that was my first beer drinking experience what a whirlwind of a brewery tour a plethora a plethora. If you will one of our listeners keira i will definitely be happy with the information that was thrown out. Yeah i think what she wanted to know more about the beer making process and and by all means if if i think we'll get further into those things and more podcast by the way timothy taylor's doesn't normally do public tours but they are still the best best tasting beer honor check him out <hes> well spend a lot of money. Go to england why across the pond and go check them out. You will not absolutely not be disappointed. You're listening to life in sixteen ounces. What's in your pint mine to taylor ramtane. Your mother was uh-huh uh-huh and your father smelt of liberates all right so now we're we're done with the tour. We're in day four. We're i think of the itinerary and you are now heading towards scotland. Is that correct no not yet after the tour. They didn't even talk about drinking yeah. After the tour you couldn't help but what you need a taste of timothy taylor's since since we needed to go through skeleton again tim gave approval of my suggestion hitting up the woolly sheep in unassuming from the front ah but it fails to disappoint once inside classic snugs drinkers in the front diners in the back places to talk to him between stunning bar dr menu for all one of the things that really resonates with me <hes> you can go in and you can see like the local sweet walked in and there was a group of fifteen silver silver haired ladies that will ordering fish and chips and beer and they were having a blast and you just knew it that yep. This is going to be awesome. Just your type yes. That's right ladies who had been gay now. It's got to be a good place so we drank timothy taylor's like kings and queens of course i had what fish and chips yes so you're right back in washington to enjoy more family <hes> some some gatherings and another another didn't night of drinking. I had lots of stuff to drink. Purge this stuff before we went to scotland because we couldn't take well. Actually we did take it with us but i knew that we never refrigerated until he arrived at the hotels so to wrap up most of the time that we spent we <hes> the next day we went into back into the yorkshire. Dales went to the creamery place where they meet. The cheese enjoyed that their marketing. There's a village pub called a yorkshire who saw her had awesome evening. There ran into a liverpool fan which is awesome missouri game on nope but he had <hes> had a track suit and everything awesome. We started bringing it back more. Locally we went to new york went to see the dungeons we went into the chocolate story saw all this and <hes> came back and enjoyed toad in the hole. That's a band right. All that's toad. The wet sprocket ocean now the total whole is one of my favorite meals meals my my aunt penny <hes> makes rockin toad in the hole. It's sort of like bangers and mash but it's inside a gigantic yorkshire pudding okay. This is really good by the way gonna try to go into the yorkshire air. You've gotta try yorkshire pudding of course look it up. If you don't know what it is i personally before the l. happened. I said anybody want to go to the turkish baths. Okay through what you what yep so it in in harrogate there. It's pretty famous they have. They have springs at come up and they have these turkish baths that are you know there have been used for eons. They're known as royal baths are they right next to the turkish prisons brennan of scenic roman naked the turkish prison daddy so nobody wanted to go because it was fairly early and i said i'm going to go because i needed needed to just relax relax. Yes purge all alcohol out of my system reset my body for more driving. I went there and i i entered. I couldn't help it entered the parking garage barely making making the height restriction in the van and then proceeded to do an austin powers twenty five point jam into this quartered spot. There was nobody there at the time. It was super early. <unk> food got in there and like a ride awesome in that unlike you know what this is gonna suck when i come back out. I'll deal with an at that time so turkish baths. If you've never gone to one you you can go into a cooling pool. You can lay out and you can sort of do asana thing and there's multiple rooms so you go in succession you go to let's say a hundred degree room and then one one hundred twenty nine hundred fifteen hundred eighty and you can go into these things in purge you know sort of area eight in a way your body and then you you've successfully come back down you hit the cooling pool and then you can repeat that process back and forth haringey times you went to. I went into one hundred eighty degree sauna. I couldn't breathe. I was like people are in there. Just talk and having a good time with me. I need to get the hell out of here so it was fun but i knew it was time to go rolled road out of there and got to the damn parking structure. It's packed and people flow you know flowing into this thing. I think <hes> day five was as it was a saturday so now shopping malls are getting attacked and i get in my truck of my van and start backing up again doing a repeat of the austin powers thing people people coming in. Maybe a couple of them were hung out a little bit. I hit the damn wall parking structure wall so so sixteen hundred twenty seven miles of driving and i get one accident. It was by myself in a parking structure. It's not too bad it wasn't you couldn't even nc. They never noticed it. Oh well anybody notice it now day. Six we just basically hung out on sunday. Has a family enjoyed. Some home cooked meals and then day seven was a trip to a liberal. Oh that was the longest one that would we encountered. It was <hes> now to little over two hour drive again on a monday very busy streets berry histories busy roads but yeah we went down there. We parked at the at the docks. We walked over to the beatles story. They had also <hes> ah music experienced the british museum experience which is pretty cool because there's a lot of bands you just never knew how much they influenced the the music industry and and walked around and enjoyed some some good some good meals at a place called the railway and of course prison-ships sticky toffee pudding steak and ale pies so you basically you got your fill of everything you had grown up enjoying absolutely. I couldn't not look at the menu and go. Oh no i'll get. I'll get a panini or i'll get a salad. I gotta do it. Gotta go for the fish and chips so you're in liverpool. Did you go to anfield. Did you did you that was my main reason and i took a took a the friends that came with as they wanted to see the whole beatles thing. Okay we actually hit up the the liverpool museum free in there was to two stories of tons of information about the city what it was like growing up there what they've done for the for the the country for the city for the world it was it was very very intriguing in learned and a lot but yes i said we gotta go so everybody get in. The van hadn't anfield liverpool. We got back and we did one final gathering as family in that evening. Yes we'll guess more beer. Yes my cousins chris. Interior terriers lisa's husband chris is there. Is there sun okay. He invited me to go. Come to one of their local. Brew bruce called roosters inherit right up your alley. I said let's go cock and balls so he went to the brewery. Worry that reminded me of home. It was spacious inside had an outside patio very like social benches an arsenal brouzat. Who is that touch almost every single pallet awards out the yin yang. You can easily drink there every night. Feel nowadays this. The taste of the bid is still influenced by atmosphere. Which is what the appeal especially in england chris touches on a moment has his grandfather raising piped in heaven when i was eighteen on my birthday and he took me to the october fest so i've always took his wed as costume awesome gospel jeff <hes> the type of value drink and it was lower umbrella dinger and while he was over in the hospital next door. He told me about this top room. I said it's it's no topper a free four weeks ago me and ten months we came up and we had a real good time and that's all because of him tommy about hit chris one. I will give him this. He knew when to slip in some icebreakers icebreakers that the might have been of how him and his dad got in trouble in vegas. I take those whatever i got in. One of these americans glasses yes. We have pints english then he was terry's aries turn to tell his first beer experience fist experienced probably about fourteen years old we had these really really changed lag as tall challenge lag and it was like three percent but we used to just drink to towns and a good night really good night to fourteen years old challenge a challenge yeah. I don't think you can get it any this this. This is how my my mom used to play doubts the state and that's how i introduced into the pope because i used to go see it went up fifty six to eight and i used to obviously seem him mom half and then i used to say can have so yeah that was that was i mean. I never really got drunken lag. I i the only time i ever really drilling quiz when it was about eighteen seventeen thousand nine hundred and i never dream kimber this day her no an orange bernard per per node yeah. I had to look that up to. It's it's p. E. r. n. o. d. it's it's i think it's french inch. It's <hes> with a niece and he's flavored spirit black licorice. Maybe i don't know i i still couldn't and figured out but <hes> they throw orange juice in there as well and i mean he doesn't like it and it certainly didn't look very inviting when i looked it up <hes> um but what does he. What does he like to drink. Ally i like jim and i like if i'm just drinking to be sociable and obviously galloping them on in normal job in work and feel no salt like hangover whatsoever now probably have a calls like bud light budweiser if i'm drinking to actually be mary and joyful within about three or four hours then i'll probably drink a devout paulina october fest paul lehner any any jim and bears the belgian devouring developed an ice shock and awe aw i know i know he's the same as lisa jeez so why not english beer like more specifically a bitter which are hugely really popular in the u._k. It's a style of like pale it used to be m._b._a. Years and years ago pulled actually mammal. The words out called northeastern in harrogate. Andy was called stones stones stones bitter know hello and that male drinking bitter sale never i will never drink john smith saw anything like that because drinking stone jeez louise ago in the pine t- nosy all you can smell these egg walter. He's able to and basically put me off bitter for the rest of my life. I've drank think with him before and seeing the amount of course budweiser can stacked high in the recycling bin and i really wanted to know what the hell is going on you can you you can go to the pool in the morning. Say landau increase in the family. I'll tell you what let a slight ten eleven o'clock. Let's listen to calls light a light beer but you can go on till twelve twelve o'clock at night. Doing i need probably ten of a muslim thing. You know it's not gonna affect you because you're eating all day and you have to drop from alcoholic so with all the pubs in well known top beer companies are the incoming breweries like some that we've mentioned on this show being well received because he hates hates reason to actually visit pullman socializing and talk about yeah to be honest. Chris tells us how he was raised by two parents. I would say it was it was equal. It was equal at the same time i would be having the awed with my parents family. Gathering at the same time is sneaking out and me and my friends and i'm sleeping at fred's house touching moment that i i won't expound on but i appreciate chris sharing it but like you say about the experience for me beer release back to the facts and when i when i was too young to go for a star i regret things i did when i was if i was wave away my age that time being fine but just so much respect in nike respected tradition in bed. I just is just not yeah. I didn't realize that for ten years. I earned minimum yeah. I'm gonna have a because all just speaking of sharing terry. I think unwittingly retold the story of his trip vip with his twenty one year old son to vegas for a u._f._c. match. Why do i say unwittingly because i kind of left the recorder. They're on the table. Oh and i went off and did stuff and he he told his story and it's okay for us to go into. We'll find out okay okay. Somebody's in the doghouse chris at some. Some girls really friendly combat to the room victory pat in some money and an n._f._l. Asleep in the bed and then chris rock the veteran that we're taking the picture. I probably them all together and you were to sleep in the bed. Okay so anyway this story so towards the end of the holiday christmases past boswell twelve ended holiday realized was was was. We realized we'd love cats. We didn't realize the ipad christmas passbook towards the end. The two days before flew flew back to the u._k. We went to lost and found confronting went through it all so you feeling fall fear insurances right so right what happened then who were the last people with union room well blue gills in the room and maybe maybe we'll leave. Maybe leave that one year for the claim form and i totally back east one of them standing jokes that yeah you know what i mean. He's like hocus. The room in vegas don't worry about it happened my god. I'm not kidding. You buy will obviously be vegas. Yeah and all hotels let the hokies into the hotel and may drinks. They buy you drink so you don't know what they are. You drink so like we were getting really friendly that these these girls about increased after the fight back ah cuba's goes. You're gonna make a few been hanging says you stopping here you stopping this hotel. Who and yeah yeah yeah yeah. Mini gadot focused. I went back and yeah yeah. Rarely no no that that's what it is. This friendly yeah assists matt honestly. I can't believe what goes on that. Obviously was the first time we went to vegas. We like say we got drunk. I'm kelly stops it. Who is we jumped. Stress fay went on the roller coaster we did everything went back to the room. Who is room four o'clock morning. You wake thirty hours. We are beaming cases only twenty one of each about said just like i thought he was with four o'clock in the morning. Two big double eighteen erode us about seven o'clock. You turn around christmas. She must and so now to secure this midland who is right middle who is seven thirty in the morning went down scary massive security guy plus we send zone man comedic assault it all out snow serious issues where where's it wasn't elsa rosie taste twenty one. You know you're in vegas. Yeah well yes sir. Thanks me chris walk into town. Marley you been on a homer with champagne. Campaign special counsel withdrawal out tonight four hours down the straight and that was the night. That was the night before all the fight so you know what i mean. That was the night we flew in moaning and then if i was the d._s._p. Five after we met the right yeah tonight so scotland late. Let's go into scotland real quick. We left <hes> from harrogate. We went up to a place called house. Dad's says it is on hadrian's wall beautiful one of the best preserved parts of hadrian's wall roman fort. Check it out really cool neat dr there. It didn't spend too much time but they have some of the world's oldest latrines. Did you use it. No oh after that we went to a place called cavalieri rock castle another neat <hes> moated castle it again beautiful trip and we're so if you look on the on the on the map we're going to go up the middle of u._k. In cutting over to the left towards the west west coast after cavalier rock we went to dumfries and then headed up through <hes> some in other places like drum lowering castle and i tell you what now one of the sort of the the reason how i planned this for scotland his outlander huge fan of outlander the show and we were trying to track some of the film locations that show and a lot of these a a lot of these were on the list in along the way like bothwell castle we went to george square when we got to glasgow and in glasgow cathedral we went through that town. I'm sorry city actually and hit up the glen goin- distillery. If i get the pronunciation wrong folks sorry i'm not. I'm really not a guy. I'll i'll drink it. What's in front of me. Then we hit up the auto to sand distillery beautiful place got their kind of late and they said now we're done with the tours and we had a lot of people with us in just happened some other people from san diego. Were there and he said you know what let's do it. Let's have let's have a tour gave. He gave us a tour. They are normally wouldn't have done aim hit that up that was great and from there we went to loch lomond beautiful country area would lake lake mountains you sort of like see how the initial highlands begin <hes> but this is all in the lowlands and highlands so is this. This is loch ness as cousin president yeah. There's there's a lotta locks but yet locked limo. Loch ness is was easily. Another two who hours north of loch lomond okay and then we ended the day by <hes> getting our hotel near sterling they went to stirling castle after stirling castle which in itself can be almost a day of of of of visitation. We went to a place called doon in castle which is a film location for game of thrones outlander and monty coupon. Take good perfect so the reason why the beginning starts out the wait did show is because we went to this castle and i said we're going to go to this castle. I don't care it's pales in comparison to sterling but the history history the memory of this thing when you watch much on the holy grail it's it's in the first scene in his throughout the whole entire movie <hes> it's beautiful so we pulled up and i said that's it hasn't changed so here's what's great about it. Real easy to get to easy parking not crowded at all we walked up and you could see they had these moats almost the rolling high rolling hills as you head towards the castle hassle you can easily fill them with water. Blah blah protect the castle but there is a clear worn section that heads up one of the hills that you know oh people go back in the attack and they run away run away and they do all these things so nobody else was really interested and i said okay this is mine and so i got to the castle okay yell. Excuse me we saw the holy grail of your castle. People are like look at me look to help. That guy knew it. Maybe maybe come in. No you not the amandio that come in well and then i said well. That's coming in attack anyway so go in the castle. Yeah i mean i pretend i'm so lancelot john cleese and start start fighting my way up the staircase killing all these you know these visible people and people like what is wrong with the best part what is the head of bagpiper playing inside the castle out of new york and dishonesty decide but i got to to the top and i found a gift store yes in what was inside the gift store exactly coconuts man. They had a little section for monty python. You can get like a t. shirt and everything and of course including coconuts and i just said hell yeah grab those suckers. I came back outside. This is again our site. You can see me come back out of the castle and i had somebody fill me. As as i caught my my coconuts towards a castle i dismounted properly and i had one of the ladies that work at the castle start clapping oh you did it. Descended properly will done so. She's quite happy about that and so that was me. I was like there's my trip. I'm happy maybe we left there and we continue driving to place called lithgow gorgeous massive place again from outlander huge huge palace and we hit up a place called the park bistro which you here in a second you're listening to life and sixty nine winces and what's in your paint here the part bestial inland lesko. We have a local brady called stewart. Bring about ten minutes from here and which selection of police m._p. Ills you're more than welcome to go and view the brings just a small family on really just about fifteen minutes from here. Just about fifty minutes also from edinburgh the capital of scotland after that amazing lunch in beautiful beer beheaded to blackness castle another outlander replace mid hope castle hoped in house which by the way is loudly brooke famous lally brook from outlander and it was just one of these things you turn the corner and it's and it's my gosh there. It is nothing's changed about it hollywood office. He does most amazing stuff to it but it's right there in your face and you can close as your eyes and you can see the characters moving about the the set sounds like you hit more castles in scotland than in ireland is right you know why because his cromwell had burn them all down oh democrat well after that to you know jump on what you were just saying we hit up one more edinburgh castle okay obviously the capital of scotland massive city and we had we were running out of time we drove into the city saw the place. It was just it was overwhelming to the point where you really couldn't. We couldn't at this point. <hes> digest this stuff in in trying to get out of there. I had a turnaround time about about five o'clock in the evening that we had to leave and get down to the hotel so from there. One of the things that we wanted wanted to do was the scotch whisky experience. Okay i think about seven or eight tastings to try that if you ever go to edinburgh and from there we <hes> we drove drove down to another thing by the way arthur's seat gorgeous hike that you can get into the top of this beautiful rock outcropping outcropping and see all the city. It's awesome roll down hit. Carlisle had another beautiful <hes> a meal on the way to the hotel in in lancaster and they go wrapped up the trip. I hidden out in the morning to manchester in in <hes> safely made it back what a the world and then tied with beer. We kept hidden these places it late in kim buying beer at these pubs fitting beginning that i had in the damn van so at night like i kind of almost force my force fed myself beer but i still couldn't make it that much of a dent we carried out of there at least nine bottles of beer on the wall nine bottles it'll beard and also and a gigantic thing of whiskey that <hes> my buddy had bought with scape with skjei <music> so we had all that stuff. What do i do with it. Get into manchester driving to the airport on unlike follow that you know the the plane symbol. There's gotta be a gas station on the way there like every single. Airport has couldn't find nine one so we drove around circling. The airport can't find anything said skirt we gotta make it to the airport and turn the sucker and be done with it pulled in. I said i'm sorry i could not i could not fill it up and the <hes> well you know. There's one five minutes down the road. I said well then. Can you take me there. Can you drive. I'm really tired of driving driving and it's oh and by the way can you guys use this and i handed them. A bag of nine beers yes and a gigantic bottle of whisky. Don't worry about it. We'll take care. We'll fill it up pump price. We've got life life. It's sixteen power of beer so that's not quite well. Thank you very much to the guys. Should i say the name sure enterprise appreciate it at manchester airport as always knew all you compact all of this activity tippety within a very short amount of time and i'm hoping to see the pictures <hes> of the of the the all the castles and everything else that you went to i know you normally put a book together and then that'll be probably a couple of months down the road but wow man what what an amazing trip there yeah thank. You and it's actually what's cool about it is it was very much circled around life in sixteen ounces took a lot of photos for the the show and yeah i'll share them as much as i can all the sites and hope you guys enjoy it cheers and thank you to all of our guests who were kind and brave enough to step in front of our microphone and share what's in their pint well. It looks like we are approaching last call. We hope you have enjoyed listening to life in sixteen ounces support us by visiting life in sixteen ounces dot com and subscribing wherever you get your podcasts from what to see what happens in between shows well just click on our facebook twitter instagram and youtube icons linked on the website. Stay connected with us there and when you're having having your next brew try using hashtag life and sixteen ounces please and hashtag what's in your pint got more to share email us at life and sixteen ounces congenial dot com and tell us what's justice story pitch an idea for the show we'd love to this episode was stitched together. Bide lied myself with some material found in spotted dick thanks to our team for all of their technical mumbo jumbo ballyhoo which navigations who supports like paul supporting the fish and chips industry in england fatty but ah is by the queen's own royal dragoons. That's it folks join us next time on life and sixteen ounces cheers. Excuse me what do you have in your hands. The holy grail thought in your general direction uh-huh.

timothy taylor u._k england tim charles dent paul lehman bob brewers michigan john smith ireland newcastle harry potter fogel marley yorkshire steak and ale yorkshire dales
Bramson's Barclays test, the future of CYBG and US online banking

FT Banking Weekly

18:35 min | 2 years ago

Bramson's Barclays test, the future of CYBG and US online banking

"Welcomes banking weekly from the financial times with me, David Crowe joining me in the studio today. Stephen Morris, our European banking correspondent, Nick Magor, retail banking correspondent Russo joined by Lauren Newnan in New York, and our guest this week is David Duffy the chief executive c. y. b. g. that's the group that owns Clydesdale Yorkshire Bank and now virgin money. This week, we'll be taking a look at Barclays as it tries to defend itself against activist investor. Edward Branson, though severe looking at the future of c. y. b. g. after it completed its one point, seven billion pound takeover virgin money, and we'll be asking about growing competition in the US online banking market. So Stephen, it's more than seven months would Bramson the well known activist investor took a big stake in Barclays. What's the latest while Mr. Bramson has been flying around the world, various exotic locales on a second round of trips to see investors to try and get them onside, reveal progressively more of his ideas about what he wants to be seeing done a Buckley's. He should be finding very fertile ground among these investors in the stock plunged again, this year, it's trading at or near five year low, but still he hasn't really been that specific about what he wants to be seen done to the investment Bank where he's very Julius about the amount of capital on the returns generated from various trading operations. He's of the mind, the Barclay should run down or sell these operations and abandoned its ambitions to be one of the big bold bracket Wall Street competitors that the CEO Jeff Staley has grand. I'm visions to be. However, he's been very taciturn so far, which. It's not great for journalists and Barclays, although claiming he has no support a quite clearly very panicked by his presence on the Shera jester. He's the second largest shareholder with about five percent. He's rejected eleven meetings with management so far. So you can see Buckley's a very calm about this and buck is actually high Goldman Sachs to lead the defense. So they brought in the big hitters from outside, and they're also using j. p. Morgan deutscher by their regular corporate brokers as well. So there's a lot of firepower being amassed on both sides. But as yet, we've not seen Mr. Bramson come out with his formal attack. Now the Bank is reporting its third quarter results this week, so we could see something around then maybe he'll use the opportunity to flesh out some more of his plans about running down the trading operations. Oh, maybe he keep his powder dry. His previous investments have been very slow burn, and his backers have a lot of patients for him because he's track record is excellent. So how easy is it to run down an investment Bank. Because Mr. Bramson might propose it's incredibly difficult. A lot of investors of cited. The examples of obvious enjoy both of which have been trying to run down very complex Fiqh as it's called fixed income currencies and commodities trading operations, and they have lost enormous amounts of ValuJet these processes. So if Brampton does have a blockbuster idea that no fig banker, Nope, Barclays employees. And indeed, no other activists have before, then I'm sure the shabbes will be all ears. We just haven't heard that from him yet. Now this isn't the first time that Mr. Bramson has invested in a UK financial services company Oviously. We saw him in FNC and some others to tell us about the role of the regulator this time round people inside Barclays, saying, they think they have it agree of protection because the regulators might not want mister Bramson throwing his weight around. Exactly. I mean, he's previous targets have been smaller asset managers or private equity company. Some there. We still listed, but none of the same scale of Barclays, which is remember one of the world globally, significant investment banks. Any attempt by Branson himself or one of his acolytes to get on the board would have to be scrutinized by the PRA which is an arm of the Bank of England which aims to ensure banks run properly. So we don't have a repeat of ten years ago on any major change in strategy defacto would have to be signed off by the Bank of England as well. Now there's always the political side to this is wheeled out by German and British politicians. Does Europe still want to maintain a big investment Bank to help them with sovereign debt sales to help back there in corporates, or is it a bit more relaxed about that and content to see other European banks will predominantly the Americans come in and do this. So Barclays thinks that it has the regulators in their corner there because of the size of the target Bramsen has taken on and the sensitivity of regulated entity, such as Barclays it is going to be more difficult than taking on. For example, you know, a small private equity company that doesn't have the same. Of scrutiny. So it's been little more than seven months and so far? No fireworks, what do we think happens next? Well, as we said Bramsen is very, very tight lipped as he has been in the past about what he wants to do with these companies. One option since he's a very large shareholder would be too cool and EGM and extraordinary general meeting, perhaps his own slate of candidates against the board. I mean, we know for example, a lotta of board members of quite worried about being personally targeted by him singled out for presiding over a steady decline in the Shep rice market. Sharon investment banking, things like selling down there, incredibly valuable centuries, old Africa operation in order to fund an explosion in Fiqh an equities trading activity. Another option could be for him just to sit on the register, kind of always in Buckley's rear view mirror, keeping them on their toes, making sure that they don't do anything drastic. As I say, we hope to hear from him soon as lots of investors. A lot of them bought in off the he emerged on the register on the. That he had some brilliant idea. Some really groundbreaking new path Barclays to go down, but we haven't seen that yet, but we wait with beta breath there. You have it Mr. Bramson we're waiting with baited breath, Steven. Thank you. Last week we caught up with David Duffy chief executive c, y, b g the Clydesdale in Yorkshire banking group, which is just completed a take of Jin money. We asked him to explain the rationale for the one point. Seven billion pound deal. Sure. I think with the closing of the acquisition this Monday, we're now in a position where we can look to bring the two firms together. We have to take a license which takes a period of time up to a year at first, but the am Bishen for the Bank is to be providing the best rated servicemen's banks in the UK. And we anticipate that with the brand of virgin and our capabilities and products jointly as they are very complimentary and our technology and our real focus on customer experience. I think we can deliver on that promise and that's what the mission is. Scottish Bank Clydesdale and Yorkshire Bank were both formed in eighteen hundreds and that brands are well known regionally. But Mr. Duffy todos the storied names will be phased out in favor. Of the internationally recognized virgin badge. I think the critical thing in any of these questions is engage with customers to do that, and it was going to be three year window of migration. We've agreed that up front retail brand is what will be driven mainly by virgin money. And we will look at an explore the SME brand with our customers, but we have the rights to either include that in the vegemite brand or maintain a separate brand. So I think we will do that process by just fundamental gauge their customers over an extended period of time. Fulling the deal. See, why is the largest of the challenge of banks set to rival Britain's big five. But Mr. Duffy told us he expects the fists is competition to come from outside the traditional banking sector. We've become the six largest Bank in the UK, but for me, that's statistic rather than the particularly important factor. I think it gives you certain resilience for multicultural events and all of that sort of stuff. It gives you the ability to generate sufficient investment capital and or shareholder dividend so that very important. But I think the real model for us in the future is to think about what's happening in the overall backing structure in the marketplace over the next period of time. And I see credit card companies, payment companies and big tech companies at varying degrees of involvement, particularly likely to into mediate the back models. We know it individually and collectively they'll have a large influence on many TV's banks gauging today. So we're we're looking at is creating that brand loyalty that fundamentally brilliant service level. That brings a relationship too. Higher level and then offering other services, you know, not purely backing sectors and then an option -ality around our relationships to do partnerships with fintech and partnerships with any of those kinds of entities. So recognize disintermediation coming. It's just a matter of the period of time. It takes for it to scale in the UK we see in the rest of the world and prepare yourself to be a participant rather than have something done to you in context of disintermediation, none it. You interviewed Mr. Duffy last week, Clydesdale and Yorkshire on nationally recognized brands, but they all well known in respective regions. Is there a risk to disbanding them? Yeah, it's an interesting question. See why BG is a bit of a mouthful. But as you say, it's to home markets, both Yorkshire Clydesdale, well-known relatively popular brands that both mode, one hundred fifty years old Clydesdale even prints, banknotes and Scotland. And so you could see that there might be some risking giving up the benefits of that legacy reputation. Dot said virgin is much better known across the rest of the country. I'm, we asked missed directly about this in his view. Is that increasingly with normal consumer banking loyalty doesn't count for too much anymore. People basically choose accounts either. If they move at all, then they'll go based on who has the best rates or who is giving you the best bonus for switching. There's not much choosing based on their affection for a certain old brands and mortgage is generally salt who brokers. So again, the benefits of the all brands in his view, not that huge anymore, where it is more of a question is in business banking, that's very much still relationship based. And that's where I think it's an extent they've not really made up the minds yet. They have the option to use the virgin Brown across that an testing the waters of the moment to see what the responses will be. I got the impression that even there, though Mr. Duffy was leaning towards introducing the virgin name, which because of his associations. We've Richard Branson the why diversion group said. Achy could be a benefit for business banking customers because they see it as quite an entrepreneurial name to be associated with. Now. Mr. Duffy told us, he expects the stiffest competition for c. y. BG not to come from thanks or the big five banks, but rather the established tech players like I'm as an apple and also from small fintech. But given the size of companies like I'm apple, how does he expect a relative minnow like, see why BG to compete. I think there's probably two sides to the response to I. It's kind of simple to an extent part of the reason for the virgin merger, which is it helps to get a little bit bigger. The hope is the other. They launch group will still be much smaller than the big five. Their argument is that they can be big enough to have scaled to aunt. She be able to put an investment in the stuff that matters. I the key technology areas, but still be small enough to be agile respond quickly. Not be like China turn around hawking, all. Which some of the big banks can sometimes be like at the same time, there's an acknowledgement the law of the future is going to be based on partnerships that if you are a mid sized Bank, you can't do have on your own JP. Morgan can invest ten billion dollars a year in tech. See, I just can't do that. So a couple of months ago they did it deals upon with PayPal, for example, to let you integrate your pay pal account with your be, which is one of brands is gonna, assume replace virgin, but on your banking app, you could see what would feature be virgin, credit card, current account, and also pay pal account were together on that. They've also done deals with companies like easy Bob, which is a SME lending firm. The just last week did another deal. Its own deal with American Express shows where he sees competition coming from. I expect to see a lot more of going forwards, but it is as I'm sure that I challenge of still going to have to work out. Okay. Well, from the bench. King weekly podcast is a sad farewell to the Yorkshire Bank and Clydesdale brands and to us Scottish listeners let us know if you see any virgin money banknotes popping up in the future, Nick, thank you. Now we're joined by Laura Noonan are US banking at its from New York where she has been taking the temperature of the online banking market Laura. It's been a pretty active time in the online banking market in the US just last week we were speaking about Barclays, launching online checking, and now HSBC PNC and Goldman Sachs have all come out with new initiatives as well. What are they up to has certainly been a very active time. The first mover this week was PNC, which is one of the largest regional lenders in the US see ninth biggest Bank in the US by assets. But PNC is James effectively moving into the online lending space. So they're going to launch online only loans, but be working with an existing large online on in the US called ondeck. What the online only landing is going to allow them to do is basically learned the entire the US rather than only able to learn to the station must have an actual physical branch. It's a similar stories. What we saw with Barclays last week when we talked about her. Who's going to don't Shane and on my checking account, which would allow them to address the entire of the US into dress, much bigger markets PX's now actually doing the same for on lending then a couple of days later, hey, just see him at and they're also doing so online ending. We see a service to specs to the first is they weren't actually doing consumer lending at all in the US that are pretty bad experience from the two thousand three, two thousand nine pre where they are you a supreme consumer lender. They lost a lot of money down. They kind of pushed away from that business. So the negative back into consumer dining. This time it's going to be online as well. They're also working with an salvage online learning provider, and they're also talking about house going to enable them to really lend beyond their geographic boundaries. So he just only has about two hundred and thirty branches in the US that covers around who small amount of the market. They couldn't theory us this new on lending operation to lend to a much wider Marcus that at the same time, Goldman Sachs, which is obviously the first. Spine really push into the online banking space in the US to the lowest of Marcus. They have also this week merged investment services division, and the division that Marcus is a part of the consumer banking division. And part of the reason that they're doing that so that they can launch a brewery, wealth management offering. They say the ideas that they have markets, which has a lot of digital capabilities. They're going than Mari with their asset management division and USA to sell must market wealth margin product, negative Hinton. Previously, we knew exactly how it's going to work with. Certainly think it had a lot of potential because they have the management products pitcher, essentially, what they'd be selling in the Schaaf Marcus house. I've pretty applaud for more this point. We're talking about two million customers and Heff very ambitious roads plan. So I think this is potentially a pretty big challenging to the existing US brokerage houses of Charles Schwab, which Trish me do the business. I think that can be medium seem to watch as well. So how much is this going to change the market and can be expelled. To see more of the same from other firms in the middle of the market is probably going to be quite a significant thing. I mean, there's a couple of different things going on the first is that all nine only operations Canelo regional buying. Also foreign banks who are pretty limited in terms of their geographic reach in the US. They can allow them access to the entire country. I think over time that is good change. Some of the competitive nominates what we've already seen a bit of in the savings faces online own providers, push up savings rate. So they're offering to two percent for online savings? Yes, that's Faren above of what the major US find student so far that hasn't really had much impact on Beijing's response behavior. They managed to pay next nothing for their own deposits. You have to think that over time the US consumers going to say, well, if I can get t percent interest from an online only by which is very to either large regional binder too large foreign Bank on going out rather than getting next to nothing for keeping the money with my big. We have to think over time that is gonna create some level of pricing pressure on the consumer lending side as well. I think people are going to warm to the cheaper more convenient us by Jimmy online that will have competitive pressure, and that will force the big banks to up their game. And it's also comes at a time when the US consumer lending market has been tricking anyway. So I think it's basically a competitive pressure at the US banks probably do at this point in the cycle in terms of if we're gonna see more of the same, I think pretty much certainly. Yes, Arlen only is a very attractive option and it's becoming more and more technologically possible. There isn't really much of a downside than level invest involves. It isn't actually massive in terms of sums. The one thing you why were Yvette is banks getting into consumer lending particular stage in the credit cycle. So we're at the point now where Waller isn't much sense yet that the US credit psycho has returned and we didn't see much evidence in the bags quarterly earnings. Last week, there is an expectation, the credit alone office Hansi. Good forever. So I think maybe there will be some concerns make it into that aspect now in the short term. But I think if we think about this in terms of medium-term trends online, only banks probably a big feature of the US we monkey market going forward. That's it for this week. All it's left me to do. Thanks, Steven, Nick and Laura, and our guest, David Duffy, and thank you for listening. If you're not ready enough t- subscriber. Do you take a look at our latest subscription offer at FT dot com forward slash offer? Remember you can keep up to date with all the latest banking stories at FT dot com. Forward slash banking banking, weekly was produced by Fiona, Simon in two next week. Goodbye.

Barclays USA David Duffy mister Bramson virgin money UK Goldman Sachs Yorkshire Bank Buckley Nick Magor Edward Branson virgin Morgan deutscher Bank of England Clydesdale Yorkshire Bank chief executive
The Morning Briefing: Wednesday, October 21

The Briefing

02:17 min | Last week

The Morning Briefing: Wednesday, October 21

"Hello, I'm Chris Price with the briefing from the Telegraph. It's Wednesday type of the twenty-first and we've got the inside story on how the Manchester talks collapsed. So northern cities have been put on notice that they could follow Manchester into tough covid restrictions. By the weekend South Yorkshire is expected to be placed into Tier Three today West Yorkshire Northeast Teesside Nottingham also in discussions with the government. Of course, Greater Manchester will be put into tier three from midnight tomorrow against the will of its leaders that soft they failed to agree a financial deal with ministers. Christopher hope has the inside story of how Great Manchester's look down to collapsed of just five million pounds. The government claims serious covid nineteen cases arising so fast in Manchester, the intensive care beds will run out by mid-november indeed first glance the figures same terrifying. The problem is they're actually better than those at the same time last year Sarah Napkin analyzes why the figures don't support Manchester being in tier three. The women and qualities ministers issued a warning teachers. Chemi. Baton Knock told the Commons that teaches who told pupils that white privilege is a fact a breaking the law she was speaking in response to the Labor impede on. Butler. Who says history needs to be decolonized? He can read her comments. And suggestions. Boycott said the BBC of sacrificing quality free quality. He says, the corporation was so beholden to political correctness that presenters were frightened to voice an opinion. The former cricket left test match special in the summer of the fourteen years when the BBC didn't renew his contract, he was speaking in an interview with the Telegraph to mark his eightieth birthday. As. Well, as all that has a couple of features you might like y Diana's Panorama interview marks the beginning of the end for her place in the Royal Family and Michael Hogan's review of last night's episode of Great British Bake off details why Matt Lucas is out shining fielding. If you're listening on WHATSAPP US into those leaks. Now, if you're listening on spotify or where you get your podcast, you find them in the show notes and if you're listening on smart speaker, you'll find it all on telegraph but coach Kay that's it. You're up to date have your second briefing of the day this evening.

Manchester Butler BBC West Yorkshire Northeast Teess Chris Price Baton Knock South Yorkshire Christopher hope Sarah Napkin spotify Royal Family Matt Lucas Michael Hogan Kay five million pounds fourteen years
Vineyard Years Podcast Chapter 2

Vineyard Podcasts 2013

00:00 sec | 2 months ago

Vineyard Years Podcast Chapter 2

"We actually began planting this way out in March 2012. That was when we put in the post the wires and of course the vines but any notes mrs. Summer House made at the time were destroyed. It is still believe it or not. So these notes records and podcasts actually began in 2013. So apologies for any confusion that this might have caused. The Vineyard Years A Tale of insanity in the Yorkshire Dales by Peter Galvan chapter 2 Yes, we are planting Vines know they probably won't grow. Yes. We are mad. August 2013 Again, I have to start this chapter by admitting that I had no intention of publishing it right now, but then I read an article in the guardian. It's only one week after the article wage prompted my last blog about how wonderful was in the world of English wine-growing and this article one week later is about how bad things are off in the world of French Vine growing. It was headlined. Bordeaux wines are decimated by nine minutes of hail. Went on to say week dog field surveyed. What was left of his Vineyard? Row upon row of skeletal Vines bereft of foliage and fruit, they're broken branches hanging limp. It is a catastrophe. Everything has gone the leaves the gibes everything. It's happened so quickly. Yes, welcome in nine minutes of hail. He said he blinked back the tears. No, I'm not gloating. I only ever do this when we meet the French at rugby and it was a French have that Latin temperament that has been accused of being dramatic, but my heart the heart of old brother Vine grower when right out to him. And I thought we had challenges with the weather. It made me quite re-evaluate our future. So yes admittedly. There are certain number of negatives associated with our patch of Yorkshire, Hillside. Before coming to these let me just say there are also one or two major positives. It was free and it was outside. It came with the bomb we bought as my wife Studio, but that's another story. three of us significant positives are which is well-drained and it is south-facing and because it's halfway down the hillside. It should not fall victim to frost pockets. The main negative as I told you last time is its exposure. We haven't had any Hale just before Harvest time, but then we haven't had a harvest time yet. So perhaps that's to come. True it can be quite dispiriting in winter when the wind is so strong that you literally can't stand up. rain comes anything but vertically Probably any hail would go straight by. Yes, you're saying what would be a really good idea is to plant vines right here. If I close my eyes. I could be in the Mediterranean apart from the small fact that I would be lying flat on my back or front laid horizontal by the wind. When does the enemy of vines the phrase Echoes In My Head? Don't make have the me straddling the ROM doesn't that drive people mad? So we have that in common with their own producers. And New Zealand is definitely windy. How difficult can it be I Spit on the Wind although not into it windbreaks. I think trees or artificial wind breaks off but white that's for the future months. A more immediate problem is that Vines General prefer alkaline soil hence in part? Although climate also plays A Part the attraction the southern joke lands and and the flight the geology of the area of champagne for French wine producers to be buying land in Southern England. Even these parts and can sell for ten thousand pounds an acre. So God knows what it sells for down in dingley Dell land. So yes free is good and overrides a lot of negatives. One of which to return to my main theme is the acidic nature of the soil. Its proximity to the mall ends and the Heather with the it's acid content means the lifetime of spreading lime. I mentioned it site is also a negative five hundred feet at the conservative estimate hence the mall and the Ordnance survey map says 600, but I prefer to stick with this five hundred more homely somehow apparently you lose a degree of temperature in the vineyard for every hundred feet of altitude. As it seems great brightening is all about warmth. We can't afford any loss of degrees given a limited sunlight hours. Chapel run the course said if you have wind it's like trying to heat your car while driving along with the window open. Repeat after me. It's cheap and it's outside. By the way, in case you were wondering you can omics of this Venture. That's simple. I will spend however much I think I can afford to lose in pursuit of my dream. At the time of me and my wife being employed. We reckon a maximum about 5,000 pounds. Well decide for yourself. So three tons of granulated lime costs four hundred pounds as I recall are spread out over our half acre. I establish a nice working relationship with my former neighbor. He spreads the lime easily with his big spreader and this is possible because there are no posts and no Vines yet. Then he plows 26. I think it was for Rose into which I well actually myself my wife built and prospective son-in-law will plant the vibrations. My neighbor is what you would call a lovely Chap and probably the least skeptical of men which is strange given that being a farmer. He's totally practical about the land off. There's no rubbish about the romance of planting Vines. Thing is so many farmers have been forced to diversify that any Enterprise is regarded as worth a shot. It doesn't say a lot but what he just say, you've got to try these things as encouraging secretly. I think a few of the farmers around here are watching for my success or more life my failure with self-interest. I can see it now knitted. Oh the new Bordeaux, maybe wow, and then the wind blows me over. Next time I'll tell you about the posts The Vines and the wildlife. Thank you for listening to this episode of The Vineyard years. If you enjoyed this one, there are plenty more to come on this podcast. And of course you can read every episode on my blog the summerhouse years back home. If you'd like all seventy in the same place. There's my ebook and paperback available from Amazon and titled you've guessed it the vineyard years.

Vines Yorkshire Dales mrs. Summer House Peter Galvan Yorkshire Amazon New Zealand Mediterranean Southern England Dell Rose nine minutes one week four hundred pounds ten thousand pounds five hundred feet 5,000 pounds hundred feet three tons
The Hand of Glory, Part Two: Recipes, Necropants and Toes

Ridiculous History

23:50 min | Last week

The Hand of Glory, Part Two: Recipes, Necropants and Toes

"One what emergency Arkan issue it was. It was. Winter route one around the beer and drink. Drink it an sub is that what happened? In The train. Car. You can't judge speed an approaching train. That's why the signals they're stopped trains can't paid for by Nitsa. One. Emergency. Train into the car. Sir What is your location or look around for a street sign says eight and Orchard. Ethan. Very. Good Eighth Orchard Third Help is on the way to that would. Stop. You have to get there now at a railway crossing, even the engineer sees you and hits the brakes it can take a mile for the train to stop and for you that's too late stop trains can't paid for by Nitsa. Ridiculous Histories of production of I heart. Welcome back to the show ridiculous historians. Thank you as always for tuning in. We have had some helping hands with our research today. This is part two of our episode on the true story of the hand of glory. Let's get into it. So we're talking about. Of. Confusion in these recipes there is the word Zimrights and again I figured out nighter pretty quickly that was like a a sulfate situation or some kind of preservative but Zim at the question was, did it mean something called? Vertigo which is a green pigment or was it Arabian sulphate of Iron You know this is this guy would have not done well in like a recipe you. Know type book situation because these are all very vague and there's like not even any measurements like how would it? How would you get the proportions, wrong yeah. Little. Albert has talents but I think you would be very bad at a recipe writing contest also again, the name of the Book Has Little Albert just choosing to picture in my head a lovable diminutive, very creepy addams family guy Sleep. That's the only possibility here Ben. But that's the thing though a little Albert wasn't the only guy talking about this particular. Now tool of the trade there were all kinds of different sources that gave different advice in the Whitby Museum. North Yorkshire. You can see a genuine hand of glory on display there, and it's it's about like you'd think it's kind of a Korpi mummified looking thing leathery long fingers they've been burnt so that the pigments have. kind of like been leached out of the skin. So they look white around the tips and as is actually found in says to me like sort of like a witch house thatched cottage and it was thought to have come from the Jibbidy. How near the Yorkshire Village of Casta Leon interesting that it is in the name there I don't think that's I. think that's a coincidence or was there this place notorious for hanging criminals will. Six in one hand of glory half dozen in the other maybe. Agreed. So the thing about this exhibit is that it also contains a page from a book that was published in eighteen twenty three. And this book has a competing recipe for a hand of glory just like you know the the situation where you may use your search browser to find a recipe for. Eggs Benedict. And you're going to get different takes on the same thing. This recipe says of the hand of glory eat must be cut from the body of crimen along legitimate pickled in salt and the urine, of Man, woman horse dog and mayor smoked with Herbs Hey. For a month of fun I like this variation of. Very piece centric creation sure is Oh, what else do you need because it got some timing that comes into play here I obviously must be hung from an oak tree for three nights running late at a crossroads which I know you can appreciate and then hung on a church door for one night while the maker Keeps Watch in the porch got to have a porch on the Church two absolute must and if it be, that's no fear has driven you from the porch then the had to be true one and it be olds. So Dr, the porch is really poured centric this one This is a very porch centric recipe here after right after the reading knew that. We wouldn't get sued Casey I would love to have had the ability for us to throw in that how bizarre song just to clip from that. I wish we could use that when more often I think you could just just to like literally like one note people will do the Din ended it. That's all you need. It's fair use because we're talking about the song structurally, right? Don't sue US exactly. We want to protect ourselves legal liability and there were people who believed in the hand of glory. You can imagine they wanted to protect themselves as well. So if you. Suspect that someone may try to render you comatose or unless or rob you using a hand of glory. There are a few ways. There are few preventative measures you can take I you can try to douse the flame for some reason you have to use milk for this you don't ever say why. And then second, you can counteract the magic by rubbing the threshold of all your doors and windows with an unjust made from the goal of a black cat, the white hin and the blood of a screech owl. So I guess Pantry Staples, right? Right. Right. What would a magical protection be without some sort of paste made from animal parts? You know this is this is a key here. And I am absolutely fine with pulverizing a screech owl. Good riddance as what I said well, screech OWL is. Not a great name are wise. Let's let's be honest. They could have called it song or something. Hey No. This episode of ridiculous history is brought everyone by audible I. Love Audible Ben I truly do and and everyone else should too. If you don't already although I know many of you because you've heard us saying it's praises low these many years but you know as communities around the world kind of united to confront new challenges like social distancing and school closures everyone's really trying to. Find a way to relax but also stay informed and entertained, and you know we ridiculous history consider ourselves storytellers. We know that stories are a great way to do that thing stories entertain they teach but they also help keep our minds active alert and engaged. Yeah. Audible is the leading provider spoken word entertainment and audio books. So we're not just talking about novels. Bestsellers were also talk. News. Development and also things like audible sleep. If you're hoping for some easier naps in these trying times and speaking of trying times with stories, audible dot com, which is a special site that audible created for families with children who are away from the stimulation of a classroom right now with more urgent need than ever to find stimulating entertainment maybe get. Off those screens. So folks can actually stream hundreds of audible titles completely free with no strings attached for as long as this pandemic in quarantine situation lasts. Ben You're a fan of audible and I think you've got a new title that you've been out. That's right all I've been going back to some of my favorite Hala Wean Autumnal reads just started. Bump in something wicked. This way comes by the one and only ray Bradbury classic and I have been listening to Charlie Kaufman the screenwriter and Weirdo filmmaker. He's got a new novel out called aunt kind which if you're a fan of Kaufmann, I think you'll definitely be a fan of this book and the The guy that reads it does A. Great job. You don't have to take our word for folks don't delay. You can visit audible dot com slash ridiculous today to learn more or just text ridiculous to five hundred, five, hundred find yourself. Why is the best audible dot com slash ridiculous or just text ridiculous to five hundred, five hundred. Let's liked to drive the Volvo xc ninety plug in hybrid. The thrill of a four hundred horsepower t eight twin engine. The Joy, of impromptu road trips. And the serenity. Trick power in pure. Eco Mode. Visit a DMV evil retailer today to experience the xc ninety recharge plug in hybrid for yourself. Anyway We know that were severed hands that were used as public warnings and just not purported to have magical powers. There's a thief's arm that is still in a in Prague to this day and in Europe across Europe, you can find severed hands of criminals that are. Put up like public warnings. In most cases, we don't know the owner of the hands, but the owner isn't really important. The idea that your hand can get removed for doing something bad is the real change key takeaway like there's a very old pub in Wiltshire, England? It's almost seven hundred years old. It's called the haunch of Venison and it was famous for a long time because it had a curse gamblers hand on display. Apparently, this guy was caught cheating during a game of whist. A few hundred years ago. So a butcher chopped his hand off and threw it into the fireplace in one, thousand, nine, hundred eleven. They found the hand during renovation work and they put it in a glass case with some playing cards and they set it up in the bar for people to look out whether having a pint the bit a little bit of Curia I appreciate the And if you're saying guys, I WANNA see this hand I want to see a real thing. What makes the hand of Glory? Different from so many magical items will the differences that unlike Nacro pants or something of that ilk the hands of glory was actually made at different times in history and people try to use it for one reason or another. If you want to check out this the hand of glory, there is a real reward. It's on display as he said, no at the Whitby Museum, they are open. Now I don't think they have a virtual tour but how cool would it be to see this person? Pretty cool. Pretty cool. I gotta say Ben, you buried the lead there a little bit Nacro Pants. I had to google that one literally pant a pant is is the fashion fashiony folks like to refer to them made of the skin of a dead man that sort of made into leather and cured and you can see those at different museums to a really great article on Alice Obscure called Negra pants and other tales of Seventeenth Century Icelandic sorcery. So whole nother universe of creepy morbid sorcery to to dig into their yet thing about necora pants it's a real bummer first off the pictures of the NECKAR pants are not safe for work secondly. They never they likely never existed outside of folklore. Says the idea of Iceland at Magic watching this this film called spell. Did you guys hear about this one? No no, it's a there's this guy was OCD and his partner passes away. And he spontaneous this is not a spoiler. This is like the first few minutes of the film, and so he spontaneously impulsively decides to go to Iceland and he gets wrapped up in the the colts practices and traditions of the country. So rooms. Skyteam. Loftier comes into play it. It's wild. The cinematography is beautiful because Iceland is a beautiful pretty unforgiving place but check it out. There are no Nacro Pants I will say that in this film, but it's still really good and it has grizzly magic and you know this makes me think of Ben Something I like we've talked about on the show before if not at least off air, but there is a story of is making the rounds back in those last year. About this. And Canada that makes a cocktail that. Uses a severed toe that they have on hand. It's called the sour cocktail in the downtown hotels sour dough saloon in Dawson City Canada, and it's apparently dates back to this legend for the nineteen twenties about these bootlegging brothers who got frostbite and put one of their toes and a bottle of moonshine is the article on USA Today stylized as it as men toe. and. There's a grown in parentheses that's just implied. It's not really there and a really this is a real thing and it was discovered in nineteen seventy, three, the preserved toe and that led to what they're calling the sour to- cocktail club where people come in and like they want to become the mile high quality. You know you just you get this drink and then you're a member people travel the world over to trick a drink with this mummified toe in it, and then I guess he returned the tow back to its preservative liquid. I. Wonder if it gives you even powers or bootlegging powers maybe magical bootlegging abilities who knows maybe Let's imagine a world where no one ever cuts corners. Potato chip bags are filled to the top car in front of you at the stuff like notices when it turns green will a place like this exists where script pizzas are placed in the square boxes and wings come in jumbo sides. We're talking about Ledo pizza with an all new online ordering website for easy ordering Lido Pizzas Square because Ledo pizza never cuts corners. It out at Ledo Pizza Dot. com. This episode is brought to you by IBM. Today every answer matters more than ever before because whether it's about health deliveries or finance some things just can't wait. That's why EM's helping businesses manage millions of calls, texts and chats with Watson Assistant. It's conversational a I designed to help your customers, find the answers they need faster no matter the industry let's put smart to work with IBM dot, com slash Watson Assistant to more. And learning a lot about myself right now because I remember this story and now I think about it. The thing that really grosses me out is drinking after people more. So than having a drink with the preserved body part in it I just I don't like the idea like I'm okay. With a preserved to in a drink you know especially, if it's children, it's kind of like an ice cube. I. Just don't like that the idea that it was in someone else's drink. I, that feels unsanitary. Oh, absolutely you'll say about unsanitary the recipe for Sour took cocktail is pretty basic it's one ounce of alcohol that's minimum in one dehydrated toe garnish with courage is according to the website of the saloon. So you pay for your shot to be about eight bucks Canadian and to one of the bartenders toe captain's and then the server will put serve your drink with the tow as the Garnish and the rules are simple you. Hit Your Lips, but no biting chewing or putting the toe in your mouth is allowed. I don't think anybody you need to make a federal case out of that, and apparently swallowing the to- will land with a nineteen hundred dollar fine which means someone did it I guess. So that's why I'm telling you man I know we're a family show but toe people. Tell people. All right. Yeah. Watch out well. That's That's our show today. These are just like just a few examples of the wide world of Morbid Najib. Items. I would love I don't know about you guys but I'd love to hear from someone who's actually been to the whippy museum and seeing this actual hand of glory. Also, you know we do hope you enjoyed this episode because our search histories are. A very questionable after this I do have can you buy severed human hand in my search history now Google knows about it I all can you? it's It's done on Amazon I'll tell you that. It's so off. So I did I did try to do my due diligence and also said I was I also I appended it with like can you buy severed human hand? PODCAST research just to be clear he's got the NSA know that your intentions are pure. By the way the speaking of which the idea of buying mummified parts I'm sorry to keep. Fascinated by this learning more as I'm reading about this bar with. AS Roma. Fight Toe they have multiples notch doesn't mean not clear where they came from I don't think they were all from the bootlegging brothers, but I could probably do a little more digging and figure that out. But apparently, it is considered sanitary. The the proprietor of the Barr says quote we've had the chief medical officer of the Yukon big deal look at it and give it a clean bill of health. As long as we keep the toes mummified, which we do by keeping them on salt and serving it and forty percent alcohol that keeps everything legal. The following for now but thank you for letting me know at least that there are some kind of standards hygienically for these sour two drinks I would I I mean I would. I would want an unused toe. I know that very diva Eskin entitled of me but I just I don't like it might be possible. Ben I did find the source it from all over and not all of them are ancient or anything like that. Apparently one came from a British marine who lost a toe to frostbite during the Yukon Arctic Ultra Marathon very recently started was in October of twenty, nine nineteen and that one's just a year old. And apparently, they get him donated sometimes like a guy who lost his toe to gout donated his Co.. That's disgusting. I. Don't know this is for you ben I used or unused to this just might not be your type of thrill seeking I mean certainly as mine. Yeah. Yeah and it's not as glorious a hand of glory. You know what I'd love to hear from fellow listeners ridiculous historians. Write to us and let us know your favorite examples of the hand of glory in folklore and fiction whether comics films, television shows novels, etc. You can find us we're all over the Internet. Stick we still don't avenue email address, but we're on facebook twitter instagram do check out our community page ridiculous historians. We can't wait to hear from you there. You can also find us as individuals online. By at how now Noah Brown on the instagram exclusively, the instagram I sound like Grandpa. I at them, bullying each W on twitter and in a burst of creativity I am at. Ben. bullen on instagram. No. Thank you as always and thank you super producer Casey crypt keeper Pegam. No Satan Brow as well. Thank you so much, Ben. Ben. Are you holding back on the spooky nickname for yourself. We've got a couple more I think episodes for you to come up with one. Don't don't feel rushed Oh man I. You know I I don't know if I. have. A weird thing like. Should I give myself a nickname and you'll straight figure someone else has to do with you know I guess I I don't know I gave myself. But I you can give me another one if you want to be safe and I was really just more using it as an example trying to understand the rules. So we else Let's do new nicknames every episode or something like that sounds great. Yeah. For Halloween how band. Do Bolan that's dumb. That's great thing. I'm I'm blushing. Thank you. And thanks to Alex Williams who composed are track. Thanks to Christopher, Hosue Otis and our peer podcast or Eve's Jeffcoat. Indeed big things coming soon from Eve's Jeffcoat in the meantime, a big thing is already out in the world from US Jeffco this day in history daily history rundown of stuff that happened that day as the name implies, check it out Jonathan Stricklin quizmaster. Due for a drop in any day now. Looking forward to that I think. Weirdly I. Miss Him I miss the man and he'll have nicknames aplenty for us when he returns. We'll see you next. For more podcast from iheartradio visit, the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or whatever you listen to your favorite shows. What emergency? ISSUE BE. Winter route around the mirror and the drink. Drink it. An SUV is that what happened? The train. The. Train. Car. You can't the speed of an approaching train. That's why the signals are there. Stop Trains can't paid for by Nitsa. Days of Halloween. A Remote Hotel, the most unusual guests tour guide that can't be trusted. And the newest arrival. Is You. Sound like someone you trust. Starring Keegan Michael Key as the caretaker please salted. After all. This is it. One story each night starting October nineteen and ending on. Halloween. From IHEART radio and blame house. Listen to Aaron. McKie's thirteen days of Halloween on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Ben I Toe Iceland Whitby Museum IBM OWL Google Casey crypt Albert Ethan Europe engineer apple Eve North Yorkshire Keegan Michael Key Yorkshire Village of Casta Leo ray Bradbury Zim
Spearphishing from Luhansk. Pro-Assange hacktivism. Another undercover private eye? Pirated Game of Thrones episodes carry malware.

The CyberWire

19:58 min | 1 year ago

Spearphishing from Luhansk. Pro-Assange hacktivism. Another undercover private eye? Pirated Game of Thrones episodes carry malware.

"Spearfishing campaign against Ukraine has been traced to the so-called Luhansk People's Republic. Anonymous threatened to rain chaos on Yorkshire if Julian Assange is freed actually more chaos since the initial chaos was perhaps too easily overlooked and implausible venture capitalist is asking people if they're being paid to bad mouth, a security firm and pirated game of thrones episodes carry malware. And now a word from our sponsor extra hop the enterprise, cyber analytics company, delivering security from the inside out prevention based tools leave you blind to any threats inside your network by adding behavioral based network traffic analysis to your sock you can find and stop attackers before they make their move. Extra hop illuminates. The dark space with complete visibility at enterprise scale detects threats up to ninety five percent faster with machine learning and guided investigations that helped tier one analysts perform like seasoned threat, hunters, visit extra hop dot com slash cyber to learn why the sans institute calls extra hop fast. And amazingly thorough a product with which many sock teams could hit the ground running. That's extra hop dot com slash cyber. And we thank extra hop for sponsoring our show. From the cyber wires studios. Data tribe. I'm Dave bittner with your cyber wire summary for Wednesday April seventeenth twenty nineteen. Military officers in Ukraine are being Spearfish by a group seeking to install the rat vermin backdoor rat vermin is a second stage payload delivered by a power shell script FireEye which identified the campaign links to the Luhansk People's Republic. This is a region in eastern Ukraine controlled by Russia and represented by the occupiers as being a breakaway state. That's won its independence from Ukraine Kiev regards Luhansk as nothing more than an administrative fig-leaf for Russian occupation Kiev, probably has it. Right. The Washington Post seized the Luhansk operation as a troubling harbinger of small state and non-state actors deploying increasingly sophisticated cyber weapons in this. They're following fire is lead, the company's John Holt quiz told the post that quote, we're focused on the big players and for good reason. But we should bear in mind that if this small substate can put together a hacking capability. Than anyone can in quote, maybe but with hacking as has so often been the case with Connectik terrorism, while there are genuine instances of attackers operating quite independently of other support there are many more instances of attackers working deniability on behalf of a state. That's especially true with the more troublesome and damaging attacks buyer. I did say it found no evidence that the Luhansk group was being assisted by Russia. But here that old chestnut that absence of evidence isn't the same thing as evidence of absence should be kept in mind and to ask if the Luhansk People's Republic is receiving assistance from Russia is a little like wondering, whether Google receives assistance from alphabet in both cases are wholly owned subsidiaries. So alternatively this aspect of the campaign might be more realistically viewed as a Russian attempt to achieve plausible deniability and not as a small group breakout into the big time. Here's an example of what looks like small group activity contrasted with the sophistication of the rat. Vermin installation campaign supporters who wished to stand by Julian Assange are doing so by taking to Yorkshire councils websites down presumably the attacks on Barnsley and Bedale would prompt a groundswell of hacktivists pressure in favour of Mr Assange is release Barnsley council said it had indeed sustained a distributed denial of service attack, and that it had succeeded in restoring its website, the council also alerted the national cyber security center of the incident. The Bedale matters were little different. The Bedale town council said it was unaware that anything had happened to its site. So go figure any who needless to say someone has claimed responsibility for the incidence tweets from the Philippine cyber eagles. And the anonymous Espana both claimed credit and cyber ghost four. Four thought to be the founder of both groups if indeed these are group's in any meaningful sense offered. A menacing message, quote, free, Assange or chaos is coming for you, and quote, so there why Yorkshire was chosen as the beachhead for this particular activist invasion is unclear in the case of Bedale. Apparently, nothing happened at all unless of course, that particular corner of north Yorkshire is ordinarily so chaotic that any new chaos that came for you for them was just lost in the sauce. But it looks like another activist fizzle. And of course, Mr Assange remains in custody. But to return to the spearfishing campaign in Ukraine fire is Holt Quist makes a good point later in his interview with the post he noted that Russia's hybrid war in Ukraine has been kind of proving ground for attack tactics and techniques the post quotes halt Krista sane. It's created this consistent battle rhythm of activity that we'd never seen before then quote, Russian cyber operators have a record of perfecting their method against Ukraine, and then using them elsewhere, and that does seem beyond serious question. But as a sign of increased capability on the part of unrecognized micro-states and others with axes to grind will. Wait and see if sea land or the Republic of awesome, turn out the lights in north Yorkshire or change every high schoolers grades in Union County, New Jersey that would be a different matter. Moody's Investors Service recently published research, titled credit implications of cyber attacks will hinge on long-term business disruptions, and reputational impacts the report outlines which business sectors. They believe have high risk exposure to cyber attacks. Derek Fidel is managing director of global cyber risk for Moody's Investors Service. So we've view cyber risk as event risk. And so we recognize that there are now these global cyber events, which have real dollar value impact. If you look back to two thousand seventeen not Pattaya there's view that that was about ten billion dollars exposure across a number of different companies with about two and a half billion really focused on just four companies when you start to think about these kinds of very large financial impacts across individual companies. You can start to think about how that affects overall the quitting and other financial strength of those individual companies, and how that could eventually have an impact on credit. And so that's the way we're thinking about it as these financial exposures due to cyber events can have a channel credit at some point if they rise to a certain level and have we reached the point where there's enough history with these sorts of things that we can make accurate predictions. I think we're still in the early days of being able to use historical event data to make predictions. But that's obviously something that a number of different industries, including the insurance industry are very focused on the data set that exists for this is not quite as as long and rich as data sets, for example, on normal types of cat risk or, you know, other risks associated with for example, weather events. We do think that this data set is building over time, and it will get better over time. But they're still work to be done. For example. A lot of the data sets really focus in on breaches of privacy information because that's where a lot of the regulations exist and the the disclosure requirements around cyber. Prevents tend to focus today on breach of personal information. And that means that the data sets often are missing things like disruption events, or maybe there are disruption events that that occur. But they're not they're not attributed to cyber vents. And so in order for the data sets to improve the disclosure has to improve in it has to start to cover events beyond privacy breach events. No, the research covers some specific sectors that you'll see is having a high risk to cyber attacks. Who are we focusing on here? Yeah. So when we we did our now assists. What we came back with is that there are four sectors with about twelve trillion and rated debt that we thought were at a high risk and these included the banks securities firms, Mark it infrastructures, financial institutions and also included hospitals. And some of the reason for that. For example, in the financial services side is the fact that these. Organizations are so reliant on technology and supply chain transaction volumes are very very high. And so the ability to do things like revert to manual processes in those industries, very very limited hospitals, for example, have a lot of personal data. But more importantly, they're starting to become even more interconnected in terms of patient care, which obviously opens up a number of potential vulnerabilities that could affect patient care and impact patient health. I think one of the things that's important to point out here is we're really looking at the inherent risk across the thirty five sectors that we evaluated and we're not taking into account today individual defenses that an individual company might have. And that's important for us. Because what we're trying to do right now is really set a baseline across the playing field and come up with a relative ranking of inherent risks across sectors. That's Derek Vidal from Moody's Investors Service. The research is titled credit implications of cyber attacks will hinge on long-term business disruptions and reputational impacts. The we pro Hac may have targeted dozens of the company's clients, the company initially put a brave face on reports of the breach. Pooh-poohing the first reports from Krebs on security during its recent earnings calls, but it now acknowledges that yes. The attack did take place it's bringing in an unnamed forensic company to help with its investigation. Several media reports of sent that the incursion appears to be the work of a nation state. And that the targets were we pro clients, the IT outsourcing and consulting firm was it self more avenue of approach than target. This may represent a trend as intelligence services begin to take growing interest in managed service providers. The is reporting on another suspicious questioner one Lucas Lambert who said he was a venture capitalist and wished to talk with the think tank about a cyber conference. Mr. Lambert said his firm was organizing his questioner Chatham house. Russia's specialist cure Gyles was struck by the way conversation all turned quickly to whether anyone was being paid to bad mouth Kaspersky lab. A couple of other things struck him to for one Mr. Lambert claim to be based in Hong Kong, but seemed to be as unfamiliar with that city as say a manhattanite might be unfamiliar with Seacaucus for another thing. He kept asking Gyles to speak up and repeat himself to the point where Gyles thought he might ask whether he ought to speak into Mr Lamberts pen or necktie or briefcase or wherever else the microphone was secretive. And for yet another he thought Mr. Lambert suit looked to cheap to be one of the might wear Kaspersky lab didn't respond to the AP's question. About whether they had anything to do with the inquiry. The AP is reminded of a similar approach to the university of Toronto's citizen lab by one Michelle lamb bear back in February in that case, the microphone looked as if it were in measure, lamb, pairs pen measure lamb bear was interested in finding out. Why people were slandering controversial lawful. Intercept firm NSO an Esa said, then they've never heard of Missouri, lamb bear. So our Lambert and Lambert the same mug, or maybe related the general take is that they're the kind of PI who appeared as a second or third banana in Bogart movie, usually played by Elisha, cook junior and rarely successful at getting the girl or cracking. The case we hope there really are two of them. They'd be like Thomson and Thompson DuPont EUPOL in the original. We always liked those two detectives in the Tinton comics. And finally game of thrones fans when you watch watch properly and pay for your premium channel, it's giving you value, right? Pirated copies of the new episodes are out and about z scaler warns and many of them contain a subtitle file that contains malicious code specifically remote execution exploit. And if you download one of those spoiler alert winter is coming for sure. Time for a message from our sponsor, no before it can take a hacker to know. A hacker many of the world's most reputable organizations rely on Kevin Mitnick, the world's most famous hacker. And no before chief hacking officer to uncover their most dangerous security flaws. You might ask, hey, where can I get the skinny on the latest threats, and where could I find out? What would Kevin do? Well at Nova force webinar that's where Kevin and Perry carpenter. No before chief evangelist and strategy officer give you an inside look into Kevin's mind in this on demand webinar, you'll learn more about the world of social engineering and penetration. Testing by listening to firsthand experiences and some disconcerting discoveries. You'll see exclusive demos of the latest attack. Ploys find out how they could affect you. And learn what you can do to stop them. Go to know before dot com slash hacker. To register for the webinar. That's K n. W B E numeral four dot com slash hacker. And we thank no before for sponsoring our show. And joining me once again is David before he's the vice president of engineering and cybersecurity at web route David it's great to have you back. You all recently released some survey results that tracked artificial intelligence and machine learning what did you find out here? MLA? I it's it's very close to me. We've been spending ten years plus doing machine learning at Weber. I'm so we have very strong opinions. And this survey just it. It's interesting to me where we talked to a lot of our customers or people in the industry and seventy six percent of the people. We surveyed said that it didn't matter if they're protection included a AI or machine learning. But then seventy percent said they wanted to see advertising that said used AI or machine learning. Wow. Yeah. I'm not exactly sure where the connection there is. And what what I think is, you know, go out to the MS shows and things like that. And I talked to folks I think the feeling is if. You're doing a in L than than your perceived as being technically advanced and and really forward thinking, but it doesn't necessarily have to be in the product by from you. That's fascinating. Because I I mean, certainly we've seen at like you say at the trade shows, it's all over everything would an interesting gap there. Well, it is in your exactly right. When you say, it is all over everything a lot of times people lose sight of the value that artificial intelligence and machine learning can bring in they're more interested in seeing that it's that it's available, and I think what we need to do as an industry, not as producer. But as a consumer understand, what value that the Mallory is gonna bring to you not just is it in there. Because a lot of folks see that they see the hype, and they just run with it where if you really understand the specifics where helping words not helping that's how you can really make a judgment if it's something valuable to the product you're buying what about the the sophistication of the two. Themselves are people. Are you finding that folks are comfortable using these tools well from from our perspective as a consumer of our solution shouldn't even know if it's a m L so you could be using it and have no idea that you're using any type of machine learning environment because it should protect it should automatically remediate. It should automatically do everything for you as much as possible. Now, there are tools that you have to be interactive with and those tools have varying levels of complexity and knowledge that you have to have. So it really depends on the tool, and what you're using it for sounds like, you know, your marketing folks, would probably like you to install a little red blinking light that lights up every time the machine learning. Artificial intelligence is being used right? Yes. And I hope none of them. Listen to this because you know, be having my engineers put a little blinking red light wondering why they're doing it. Absolutely, right. Yeah. What about? The other side of it. Are we seeing that the bad guys are making use of this stuff as well? You know, there's a huge belief that the bad guys are we're not seeing as much of it that correlates with the belief that they are machine learning is very sophisticated. There are non machine learning methodologies that you can use to attack machine learning models, take less sophistication less complex techniques. And there's as we said the whole tried and true items as well of types of security attacks that are more simple. So if you don't have machine learning on the machine protecting you those those methods are good as well, where am I going with all this? If you were a cyber criminal, you're going to use the stuff, you know, already path alise resistance now, there could be some cybercriminals out there, you know, large ego. They want to really use some advanced techniques, but those are very very few most people are just opportunistic. So again, we're not seeing a lot of it. But it is in existence and. I'm over time. It'll start growing. Yeah. That's interesting. You can have the most secure the most sophisticated security system in your home and somebody can still throw a brick through the window. This is exactly what I tell people that the cyber criminal wants to seal your TV isn't gonna hack your your your network infrastructure to kick in your front door and take your TV. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, it's interesting stuff. It is the web rude AIML survey, and you can find that on the web route website David before thanks for joining us being here. David. And that's the cyber wire links to all of today's stories. Check out our cyber wire daily news brief at the cyber wire dot com. Thanks to all of our sponsors for making the cyber wire possible, especially are supporting sponsor observe it. The leading insider threat management platform. Learn more at observant dot com. The cyber wire podcast is proudly produced in Maryland out of the startup studios of data tribe with their co building the next generation of cyber security teams. And technology are cyber wire editor is John Patrick social media editor Jennifer Ivan technical editor, Chris Russell our staff. Writer is Tim no, Dr executive editor Peter Kilby, and I'm Dave bittner. Thanks for listening.

Ukraine Ukraine Lucas Lambert Julian Assange Philippine cyber eagles David Luhansk People's Republic Yorkshire Dave bittner Bedale Luhansk AI Washington Post Luhansk Moody Kiev Luhansk group Gyles
S2  Preview

High Adventure Podcast

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

S2 Preview

"Hello dreams ambition talent and skill. Can you succeed if any of these attributes are missing? If you possess one or two of these can be acquired which the most important and in which order must you have them to achieve a goal that others have not Mount Everest has always been the benchmark for things seem hard and unattainable even now people use Everest as a metaphor for things that are really hard in seemingly impossible in season two of the high adventure? Podcast WE'RE GONNA make our way from the northern England County of Yorkshire through exotic and dangerous locations all while maneuvering through some misadventures and ultimately find our way to to bet amount efforts. This won't be first class. Air travel in clamping. This is one thousand nine hundred thirty three in the story of Maurice Wilson and his obsession with the highest mountain on Earth. Many of you heard the names. George Mallory Sir. Edmund Hillary and tenzing norgay name synonymous with Mount Everest. But what about Maurice Wilson? Why is his story not better known this season? We're going to fill that EXPANSIVE VOID OF MISSING INFORMATION. And tell you the story of a man who never contemplated failure after the British Mount Everest expeditions of nineteen twenty two and nineteen twenty four had failed and resulted in the deaths of eleven berry. Experienced climbers including beloved mountaineer. George Mallory and Irvine attempts on Everest had slowed down but in one thousand nine hundred thirty. Three Maurice Wilson a decorated but damaged World War One veteran and absolutely no climbing experience of any kind of decided that it was his destiny to be the first person to stand atop the world's highest mountain. His plan fly a plane to Everest. Land somewhere on the mountain. Climb out and walk to the top. Yeah Maurice Aside from no climbing experience was not a pilot and had no idea how to fly a plane. Maurice Wilson Story would be tossed aside as outlandish mit if it were not for the fact that it's all truth when asked why he wanted to climb Everest. George Mallory famously replied. Because it's their Maurice. Wilson took him seriously. Thanks for listening and spoiler alert will see at the crash site.

Mount Everest Maurice Wilson George Mallory British Mount Everest England County of Yorkshire Edmund Hillary tenzing norgay Irvine
123. Visibility with Aisling Bea and guests Jessica Fostekew, Kemah Bob, Brona C Titley and PowerPlay

The Guilty Feminist

00:0-1 sec | 2 years ago

123. Visibility with Aisling Bea and guests Jessica Fostekew, Kemah Bob, Brona C Titley and PowerPlay

"Going to send a text. I I. Believe what I'm doing. It's a paper lose them. Okay. I'm a feminist. But last night, I did the Amnesty International show. Secret policeman's, podcast and guilty feminist curated it and put it on. And I had a dream the night before that the audience will be full of men with their arms crossed complaining that ruined their childhood by making Victoria, Wood's Burien Frieder lesbian, anthem, which we totally did and changing Monty python's for Yorkshireman to the four Yorkshire women. I'm delighted to say it was a triumph. Actually, it was one of the four Yorkshire women that there was. Yeah. And instead of living in hauling grounds, she lived in the gender pay gap. It's coming out. It's going be a posse. We have to this into it. I I'm a feminist Bush one of my favorite things to do like is the door. But I also love doing. This is to go out with men just before they're ready to get into a relationship. Jess who knows. It's true. Do you feel you warm them up for somebody else? Oh such great work for other feminist. Can I just say I will be talking like this for the whole show and anyone listening or watching with joy and Boehner? You're welcome. My voice slightly can you at that? In. We'll actually have say that again. It's fine. Thank you. I'm feminist. But when I'm having a super insecure day, I count decide whether I want to be a super petite woman or a really well built mom. I am a feminist Bush as a twenty one year old woman, I refuse to acknowledge the fact that I'm thirty four and public. You can sell twenty six in Hollywood. And that's all you need to do. I had a friend once say, how do you think I can get away with being like because she's going to Hollywood? And I said. She was steady eight thirty two and she twenty four just said thirty two what am I gonna do? Not. And I just have to go. Oh, yeah. Also, twenty four. Really conversations that I do. Copy logan. These wonderful sports TV presenter from TV. She came to my birthday party this year, and she hunted for a card and. And. Great great. Yeah. Thanks. I would never know you forty. It's not it's not my fortieth birthday. Give me about the called. Give me. Raise woman less women in sports. I'm a feminist. But if I had a chance to body swap with Eminem Pankhurst on the day. Certain women got the vote in the UK or Jon Hamm's new girlfriend on the night. They got together I'd say deeds not words. I am feminist board. While I actually expect women to like me when I get that same feeling akin to when you clean your ear where the cotton. Without read go. Have to be careful because it could hurt myself here. I'm a feminist bops yesterday. I got a tank top in the wings, feminist fringe. And my first response of the wings was this is lovely. But I'm not sharing my arms at the moment. And some day was here yesterday came back today and left me a note saying, Deborah, we know you're feminist who appreciates a sleeve. So here you go. Thanks for your support Selena. This is from refugee. Hearing. The definition here person who upon arriving in Glasgow. He's embraced by the people of the city a person considered to be a local see also Gus we see also class. We it's not lovely. This crop obscuring my face. Okay. Well, look like your sod debate that for a second. Do you want me to move? Moreover. So totally totally. Exactly. You'll very prominent. You'll very prominent I admire the way that sit Ryan the center's the front row because I feel if I were a woman in this many men, I'd probably say four rows back to the signed. Really do admire the confidence, and he's making direct contact with me and everybody did you know what you were combing too, though. Oh, you did. You will find the show you. Oh. What's your name, sir? Get so many more brownie points for everything don't they women have come one of my saying to them. So I'd like one of. What's what's your name, sir? All from Edinburgh. Pretend to know where that is. Close by. Seventy and you would walk seventy males. Woke hollywood. Five hundred. Says the guilty feminists the podcast in which we explore on noble goals as twenty th century feminists and the policies insecurities, which undermine them. I'm Deborah process with MS Ashley today, we're talking about this ability. So visibility Ashley visibility. Tell me more. Tell me more like just he have a calm. Well as the visibility. We didn't me, and I definitely understand the concept. Very well. What we're going to be discussing because I've actually had to wear glasses for the last years. So I get and I get why it's important to talk about in this because you probably covered a lot of stuff, and then you were an act. But visibility when I thinking I thought not just visibility. But the concept of invisibility, and there's nothing lovelier than having an invisible day for yourself, and that can come in on e four depending on what your life was like the idea of like staying in your house getting rid UK's, maybe put them in a box. I don't know what you do. But when you're on your own in the highest idir you live on your own, and you have a partner he was going away. There's nothing better than an invisible day. I often think it's lovely that the odious you can be sometimes is on route to getting pretty you know, when you do your processes like an invisible day where you walk around with your brow dragging your tits along the ground. And you put on your creams, and there's a cream for your elbow paying in spot here, which is different type of spot to the wind. Open your nose into something else in this on your creams. You put something on the background like the realize of New York City so much drama. You don't want to be judged for what you're watching any don't want to be judged for what you look like you don't want to see on your invisible. Each your food. I often think that I would rather have like a photo released to the press of my vagina that one of me eating alone. I don't need a book on. Invisible. Feeding is so gorgeous how wouldn't those as I think it's very board for out those days, and why invisibility lovely is. Because you choose. But the worst type of invisibility is the one that you don't choose a new issue wasn't there. Here's this these four questions at my Gelu posits. In a society, or in a relationship, or in a friendship. She thinks they are four questions if you don't get a yes or worse know that I can make you feel so invisible and being invisible in wanting to be seen in having his of belonging. It's one of those things you can't ask for because once you ask for us. It undermines the whole point of asking to be. It's like you can't go. I'm. Do because to ask them. I wanna loss. It's not going to be a yes. If you're listening at home, I did floss it's a new trend for the children, all the feminists are doing it. Now, I did it brilliantly. And Ashley said so close so close. But that's the thing wanting to be seen and the four quits Judas up. You look for an answer for even in your relationship. Works site is one do you see me, and you know in a relationship where someone's on their phone like, oh, yeah. Whatever it is. We can all be guilty. If this and the second question is do you care that I'm here? They say a lot of like mental health problems that are added to homeless people the idea of my invisible, but you're wold pass. So many times that you're like a mine even here. Can you see me the third question is I know for you or do you need me to be better in some way? We all know what that's like when we're gonna relationship and are like, I don't think I'm your gal. I think you need something more. And it's making me feel the way similarly in society. I'm like, oh, I don't think you want me to be here and the fourth one is this might tie into cutesy. But it's I tell them special to you, by the way, you look at me and that might sound a bit. It might sound like. What when you look at someone on the care that you're there. There's nothing worse than a lot in our industry, which is the looking over the show. Going home. Hi, how long have you hadn't refer for the podcast listeners. I'm doing a very good mind with looking over someone shoulder. You know, when you're like, oh, I'm not special to you not here. I find those four questions are so lovely in a sense because especially our most important when his with our parents our family. I remember doing Pinal show at once died a couple of friends on it. And the best feeling in the world is when you're on a panel show and your the same as everyone else, and you know, you can be seen and your old. So you're Lybia dickhead just like the other Dicketts, and that's a really important thing to feel like you're just say, you can get the pace riptide of you. And I remember is on this show say the host was in the middle, and I had a friend besides amazing comedian. But there was a point where he started to lean into my space so much that he was touching off me because he was looking towards the host on. I realized like he'd kind of forgotten. I was there. Like he was so involved in what the host was saying that he was leaving. Right. Into me is like I don't think he can see me anymore like here, and I'm all it. So one of Philo people on the show I made a joke about because I kissed the back of his neck and was like you're close enough to get on. He woke him starring. But for like five minutes, you haven't realize that even leaning really close into me. I remember I was doing the first record of taskmaster of a long year of lots of different puddles shows and ups and downs. And I went to say something Mark Watson was was Mortimer beside me. And Mark Watson was there. I went to say something and Mark Watson, look straight out me and smiled. I was speaking. I was like, oh, she's Mark consume me. I'm not a ghost on. When I read those questions. It's like someone can look at you polite me on a show because you know, how to make an edit when someone can see you see in their eyes, and I could see Mark how to look on his face. Hear what she's going to say turns out to be. Never looked. I was really I suppose from my own because the other after invisibility comes sort of slightly worse, which I personally sometimes gash, but I was doing a lot of people of color and people from diverse backgrounds Gat, which is half visit Minniti where you're there in a sort of token sense in some way, and you're seeing but you're not seeing on the same level as everyone else. So person example of that for me was I was doing all their bloated. Lou. The host introduced everyone. I was the only Gallo Michaud which is fine on again. A lot of my friends are on the show. What everyone gets a joke. That's quite sneering joke, which is Greenwich. Very funny. That's the hose kind of job. But when it came to me, it was like this and this on like Joe who's shish. So the joke went back to Joe. And I think it's because there was a little bit of a fear of hurting girls feelings, which you can sort of understand site of a nice place. But I wasn't. It's like I've been pushing the dress instead of shorts with the rest of the people to play football. And I wasn't allowed dirty. Oh, no. Now, I feel like a little bit of a half Isabel thing because I'm not included. I wanted to have the shit rip at me. So I could use my scale to my job to back, but instead to went back there, and I was like oh now from starting position from the audience, I'm in this sort of like little slight protected thing about half is vanity I suppose something that might not change in my Jenner. Ration-? We were doing the international secret place in all. And was a really special moment when they were doing sketch from the nineties goodness gracious me sketch, which is going for an English. And it's a brilliant sketch. I hadn't been outta geic where that money Asian stuff on comedians. We're all on stage at the same time ever was really special to watch. Because everyone got to be you know, niche was an idiot finish. Like, everyone got to be their whole sales were his kids. Not just helping to represent one big. You got to be your silly self near stupid, self and your idiot self with the sort of guys of your colour or your gender your ability, and I suppose wash visibility would hopefully bring the more of us your there that you don't have to represented anymore. You can just again be addicted on your own terms chicane was in the sketches. Well, she said she initial hugging backstage going we call in this sketch with Couvin who was one of the original guys whose absolately amazing. And they were like hugging Cindy was in as well and saying oh my God. We're here with three D in the sketch ready into in the Russell because she was show, and it was amazing because it was like three D being this, incredibly famous brilliant comedy sketch. Although I was so scared I was going to accident. Visibilities? It is also in terms of seeing people we can all do neuro way in a relationship like we've all been guilty. You go did you my God with our phones? And I was even thinking about it. Even my mother that we can often turn people into cartoons. Not see them like, mommy like you turn. My mother into kind of cartoon character rather than saying her a woman us an all of the different things. She's been you can turn the people in your life into sort of cartoon characters rather than actually seeing them for a second. I'm going to you care that I'm here. Don't go away. We should going to Spain for Christmas. And so they're just I just love those questions and how we can apply them in so many ways, and so there my thoughts on visibility. Holly guilty feminists sits Deborah front, suss, white. I just wanted to let you know. There is a show in London. And some of our listeners complained I can't get tickets at the notable. So get in our if you would like to come to the Colosseum the home of the English national opera on the twenty seventh of November. Rachel, Paris and doing a show about music. It's going to be a riot overnight. You've experienced the guilty premise until you've song, I will survive the home of the English national opera. It will be ten thirty pm. But it's only one episode shows don't go on forever and the chiefs from late please book now at you know, dot org. It's going to be a wonderful night. Also, we are coming around the whole of the UK to do a really big tool. This is going to be an all singing all dancing, really five Bula feel good evening of let's be clear, feminist cabaret feminists. Voidable this show will not be podcast. You've gotta come out for it. And if. Go should guilty feminists dot com. You can see that we should be coming to a town or city near you look for the closest one tickets ongoing foster I warn you. So get tickets now for next year or they're going to all be gone. They really are going fast. They also make great Christmas presents college. I'm gonna come to us this Saturday the seventeenth of November. My film say my name, which comedy with very strong female lead will be at the cod of city sent to cine wold as part of the Wales international film festival. It's on five fifty pm. I'm going to introduce it along with the director. And also we're going to have and at the end, and please come up and feel free to say hi afterwards. I will be signing books. We're taking sell fees. It's going to be a brilliant time. And if you did see last time, I was in Cardiff, then telephoned bring a friend. You can get tickets now at cine world dot code, you K and tickets full pound seventy three pound sixty students. And that's at five fifty pm this Saturday the seventeenth November. Could you do me a favor we really want to keep this podcast running every single Monday including Christmas throughout the whole year. And what that means is we need a little bit of help from you. Here's something you could do on your phone to apple podcasts or on your laptop Goto chiens, find guilty feminist and rate and review a recent episode or just some recent episodes, how you feeling about the cost of this year, you've probably viewed it in the policy, but if you could put another review for something recent that would be awesome. And obviously give it five stars gang. If you have already read my book, could you go to Amazon to cut it UK and review at there and good rates and review it they're really really helps. And I really really appreciate you doing it also buying the book really helps if you're looking for Christmas presents this. Shia go and grab the book for more stones or another bookshop or I'm and finally if. You haven't yet heard the Amnesty International guilty feminist secret policeman's podcast each is. Absolutely. A winner. You'll hear lot of messages about human rights that are really important and actions that you can take. But also, some of the most extraordinary comedy that you will hear we have some really big names some of, you know, enough from the guilty feminist doing you material some of them won't know what you wanted to before. And we've revived some classic sketches with some feminists spins, so, please, please please go to our feed. And listen to the secret policeman's podcast from amnesty in the feminist. And now back to the show. Please welcome wonderful guest today. Jessica pasta Q, we're gonna see two and came up. In hung over. The number fringe. So that is the normal base face people. She's not turned up to work hung weekend. Baby opponent side of the free. And she's being hit for a months, it just a cruise undisciplined forced to have the voice all the time, actually. I'm eleven years older than capable and she has never met. To learn drawing. Good trying Honey. Honey, I'm Brian ac-. Tiddly I a TV comedy actor and relevant to the panel today because jersey bisexual. I'm actually my actually quite clean and pure and chaste. But for some reason saying dirty before bisexual makes it sense so much more phone like now. Now. Let's right and only note hung over because a professional. And be no Kahal pass my lips last night. But I do send also ski because we had a bit of a sing song at the bar last night after the secret policeman's bull while other people sighing showed screamed, which is the only way that I can sing I will survive three AM so sexy as actually I know what you're thinking. Oh, no. They're Irish voice on the panel. But they know each other Jude word. Yeah. Well, as it happens. We're best friends. So you're racism was right. This time. We do you know each other. We stole maze. For fifteen moment. I'm John and she's Edward. Still big. So that. Also, so many women. Like two hundred ten sons. I was like, yes. The killers relevant to me. Lifted up, and I don't think this will British is still much going on. They can fee like I'm gonna sit over here can keep a you always Bisbal justify your I said to came at a recent show because I thought this was a bit that she did. I was dancing with an apology. And I just went KEMA. Why are you so cool? The two Mellon the marijuana. And she didn't even remember saying. That's how cool she is. Jim's baby. All right. So my contribution today to visibility is something that I saw at the fringe. I was like I need you here for the visibility show. Please welcome to the stage. The wonderful power play. So on so. Now every feet. Can you briefly gives the elevator pitch for what power play is? And then we're going to be out of game show hosts, let's take. Okay. So power play. We're an activist company sorted this year, and we are doing two things immersive theater, which is all female lead. I we take it over flat and commission. Four piece of new writing racing by women, including. Fringe I and another award-winning Philip up around the world and running we win awards women win awards. Yes. They. Also, we all hit collecting data on the gender breakdown of the fringe. And this is we think the first time that anyone ever will globally has actually investigated gender at this level. So we know that there are massive gender inequalities in theater, and that they get worse. The higher out the kind of like to treat you, but we do not know when and where this kind of female drop off rate happens. So we are doing an academic study into gender at the fringe. So how? Pretty impressive young women. And today, we're the cuisine. He's grown the chase. Actually, if we get all the questions, we get to win a very visible woman. Nelson. We had tons tea cakes. Much better. Basically the same. Okay. So the first question is sixty five percent of audiences all women with. Brilliant. Now, I wanna know is whose stories are they seeing? So the question is what percent of playwrights of female is this where in the fringe in the world in the UK UK, a sixty five percent of theater audiences female, but what percentage of playwrights of those place. So I'm gonna buzz for this one because I know the answer on what I saw on the answer is one hundred percents. So hundred percent of plays in the UK to the stage. If I've women it's my answered I'm sticking to. I love you. I love you three months. What's in? Okay. Actually, I have two with everything brought us. Jess. I'm saying fifty two percent because Brexit. That's mellon. I feel like another gonna to give up to mystic here America. Thirty four percent. To think it's going to be low. This is my guess it's going to be about twenty five percent of plays. The make it to the stage of written by woman audience. Do you want to shout out? What you think how? Day eight. Okay. So what's the answer? Thirty thirty. Percents one young thing. So sad. Yeah. The lead, but she's winning Assad race. Okay. Is the actual brides for this quiz, just depression? Yeah. But how? Depressing. How oppressive we positive one? That's probably like the dog. So the next one is what percentage of the theater books office for new writing goes to women I going to give a real answer this time because nobody likes utopia onto the lot. Eight percent. Twenty percent what he what? Sorry that was because it'd be like we should discuss the quiz, Florida. Women can't afford buzzers. Actually needed robots. What are you blue? Thirty percent again. I feel something happening there. Oh, I'm so sorry. It's much lower than thirty percents. Jesus. It's thirteen percent. Okay. And if you wanna find out more about that statistic, British theatre repertoire this study, okay? So thrown so thirty five percent of the writers of female, but they're getting thirty percent of the box. And that means the more expensive plays all male. Yes. So the time we get is actually in theaters above sweetshops night is like the mass actually go another question that directly relates to how much more would you pay to see a play written by a man by that? I obviously mean how much more statistically speaking do men get guess this just better though. Ticket which I you going to see a play the West End. Nine nine percents. Twenty three percent twenty twenty three percent up. Sorry. Don't you? Call. Sorry. I mean time's up. Go to questions into pots, so new play Brits. And boy a woman will be put on on a theater that is what percent smaller, and we'll have what percent fewer performances. Forty twinning in two thousand eight. Okay. Actually, they'll be on the theater that is twenty four percent. Smaller more have sixty nine percent, fewer performance at least. That's how. Hang forty twenty c can put on your plays bitches, but not for long four nuts. Well Amelia at the globe is the most extraordinary feminist polemic that I've ever seen. It's Larry it's moving. It was like going to feminists church. It's lucky that the globe doesn't have a roof because it would have come up with the code and call and it's ten performances. Women of color in the lead and a female play. Right. Whole Costas female, directors female, and it's getting like two weeks or something I mean credible production. So we have to you must lobby the globe get on Twitter because of course, they put it on more coastal transferred to the West End. If we demanded if you go to find the coast on the question, and this one is what percentage of the Livia ward for best new play has gone to a woman. I'm gonna go back to my old friend eight percent agreed. Percent is a tell me it's percent. It's actually two percent. Ninety eight percent of the alleviates for best play have been awarded to a man and actually last year in two thousand seventeen no female writers one nominated. Hell many have been been like fifty eight. The part of your research will be really interested to see is when you were talking about the drop off point. Because it's always like we all start off as kids not knowing where women or men, or whatever we decide we end up being also who's more into drama. Water things start like what are the things in your life that start kicking you that you don't want to be the verse of yourself you'd like to be or what are the things that make an extra hard? I have good news for us. There are seven women on stage Bri now. Sixty five percent of audiences theater female, we can change this because we can demand better. We can demand more. We can demand female stories, and we can verse female stories as well different gender expressions different races abilities, we counted? And we must have how you doing such a wonderful thing. Can I say physically full name's Emma? Dennis Edwards say. On facebook. The website. So we can find pops power play fits dot com. And on social media p play it wonderful people. I've been to that website. Hey, guilty feminists. If you are in London, we are recording our new series of global pillage, and I have to tell you we've already recorded four episodes. And it's the best season yet come along full PM of the eighth of December where we'll be recording to back to back with an interval or December fifteenth where we are recording one big end of term Christmas episode feel free to come up and say, hi afterwards. I'll be grab a selfie. I'll sign your book. It is a brilliant. Diversity based panel show with two teams of comedians. Voces you the hive mind the audience see you there. Comedy. Jessica goals. This is nice of lots of things can make invisible color gender age. And of course, cloak. Get it. Our? I think it's okay. Isn't it? We're in this funny situation where invisibles he can be go just thing if you've chosen it. Also, I feel at this. Doc, oh, smoo- foreign safety kind of innately drawn towards trying to blend. It all the time. I think we just want to be like other people. And I know that that's quite NATO things. Much much wrote the moment. He's Nettie Swe is another white, man. Sorry. But what's amazing is watching? Now, he can speak watching how differently depending on who as with. Right. So I'm on a bash lay Porsche split from the push nurse. I'm quite far out the posh end as a spectrum of posters. But hey, so if a morning of the day as my partner, and I take turns getting up with him first thing and having day and. Just because of the Iowa I made. Donate. My live. And it was my to get output. He's coming what six money coming. They wake me up. And I was like, okay. And then he said that you say this if you mummy, and I a guessing up. To hold mummy and. A lot of I. I know it's like, okay you because he gives to in this is Sunday movie live in Lewisham, and he goes to the cheapest makes next to my working. But that's not got about a good. I'll stab give us shit. Give us shit that kind. All the women that work in that from. For a very long time is one of the best places I've ever been in the universe during the World Cup. I dropped him off and resi runs. The nursery said is die open for you. Go mom. Ace. The. Bill. Space cab. I'd also versus three I've ever seen from Dawson. It was say, it's an awesome. But was most brilliant about it. Even though it's hero in my. Well, that says momma and died when he comes from this rate for an hour and a half, he talks die. Say we not say me. I think it was a little bit. And as soon as the tell you only one I'll say this one last night. Already washy swell. Mum. We will. Was in those. This today, they up playing piano. So I think remove that clearing example of how we just drawn to wanting to blend in, and I think more and more than if you do make foot try and be visible, especially when you're up against it in some sense takes bravery to do that. I think the time it takes them over is. So soft trying ever anyone who is desperate to be visible than a comedian. You know that may hit women in that house over the road. Shouts. I know. So you from them. Comedians, but with our emotions. Rona you referenced before being by visiting something I've heard a lot about because a podcast like this and sometimes by sexual people say that invisible, and they say heterosexuals, visible gay people visible. Although that's obviously been a lot of marginalization by visibility is a big thing. Can you explain what a tease? Yeah. Just for the sake of visibility. If you could please use my preferred term dirty vice actual I will be doing. Feel Devi's sexual often works. Yeah. I mean, I suppose it's just a question of feeling like there is some representation you come from a community that exists that we can see stories that we meet people who are bisexual who talk about it. We see authentic stories. Rick, nor performed apply people who are bisexual or punt sexual which is essentially for me the same thing. But just just. Yeah. Name thing. The end of the table bit density get into it. What can you tell me? I have been doing that since I realized I was by actual Justice go to question. Please my definition of pound sexual. Yes. Boop. Boop. Then those people immunes as they did everyone of regardless of their gender, orientation and presentation and other Asians. For me it men's the idea. Everyone assist. What? Because I believe oppression builds care at. A lot of a lot of sexual would believe they're the same thing. It's just that. It's a slightly older word. So you kind of tend to cling to the words that best describe to you when you were acknowledging your coming to terms with your own sexuality by like the idea saying on sexual because I would consider myself as someone who could be attracted to anyone on the gender spectrum. But I also just don't love the fact that makes me signed like sexy time with frying pans. Because I only sleep what source bones? Just a boys' never grow. Ha sexual. There's a great show PD pen sexual. We have all these sexual. He only has one towel. Just in terms of the actual five is ability. It is something like I do find that people say to me on almost weekly basis. Now, I'm actually married. I'm married to a woman. So people think I've made unfortunately should have been but wasn't fell. Ashley, I've told you before I always find you extremely hideous. That advocate fix. So I'm married to a woman. I which makes people think that I've picked a team and therefore it stopped being bisexual like when you get married. You pick a person you're not like, oh, I'm on the funny express now for. I do people do say to me on weekly basis. So you as lesbian or you as a gay woman. And I have that moment where it's like my level of ours edge of correcting you because you're sort of like do I want to be the I don't just for the interest of accuracy? How visibility bisexual or do? You just let it slide which point. It's just not technically true and also slightly disrespectful to all the penises. I've seen. I have seen six Pete. I've seen. So I think it is a community that could use more visibility. And I think the best way to do that is stories, and we're starting to see more bisexual is on television and Goodwin's as well, not just like American TV dramas where they're like we've run out of storylines for this woman. So she's gonna kiss ladies aleni. We're not getting any of the intricacies of the relationship. Just sexiness. Which I am not complaining about it. Would you like to see more of in terms of Elvis, leave my soul mate, my best friend for a very long time? I'm mary. Your is never gonna stop trying. See wife is here somewhere. Sorry. Sue. Actually, heckled as wedding speech going. And I don't regret. It was the vibes. Boy state as the window lunch again. I think it's just a question of somebody doing straight Brown. Anything? I feel like I've been here being visible as sexual the start of this podcast. I did walk into the dressing earlier and go, oh, can you see my face there at that is five his ability. No, I think it's just a question. Maybe just not seeming like if somebody is dating someone up point in time, he don't necessarily put them in the straight box if they're dating same same-sex person. You don't put them in the gay boxing. You just have a slight more openness to the fact that there is there bits on the spectrum. Like, it does seem hard for humans to grasp like, we split the atom and we've invented incredible things like dresses with pockets, and we still like wrap our head around the fact that there might be people who are attracted to more than one gender. So just a little bit of openness the crazy thing is most of the LGBT community is but a pan. Yeah. I don't know the exact figure, but it starts with a seven it's like seventy cents. How play do, you know? The LGBTQ plus debts. Prepared ladies. Community. Something. And it's like, I feel like people aren't always respected, and like I feel like sometimes in the LGBTQ community of people will look down on you. While you're going down on them. It's like how does not gay enough? Came up plug. Oh, heck. Yeah. On the internet at Kiemas bliss Twitter at it's Graham, and it has suck it up comedy club those I did it's with them. The comedy club. And we live in London and Facebook. Just goes to not. Yes, I'm on the socials. Jessica supposed to also I've got a poke cost of my own this old about acing code hoovering. He's ever. Good adding bane. You can find me on Twitter Instagram as we miss be. And I would like to also recommend hoovering podcasts very on. Yummy. And Jess makes food when you do, bro. Please follow me on Twitter at Brown ac- typically. So we can take this flirtation further and also please on August thirty first log onto net flex and watch the stand up special of the world's funniest Ashley vague. If you could check out my costs, global clover police dot net and grown up at radio four. And now we have charity of the week. Lisa. I'm here from refugee earlier. So. Internationally. We'd see is like we didn't refugee is somebody who is made. If you welcome when they arrive laws go after being forced to flee their home refugee gives welcome plants with things that people need things that people would make born and welcome winters by people in Scotland to say or glad you're here. We also organize to connect old school new school, which is still freeze. We like to us. We're gonna be raft. When buckets if you can donate on the way with some response to give eight five tomato respond and for people home race. You don't key to meet money online on the website? And you can also say anything's gifts to go in the pipe, and we're always looking for more lovely hundred welcome. That's very much to everyone. You have been listening to the team with me. Why guests co host actually be very special guest? Jessica foster Q, bro. Dressy typically chemo ball and for power play and Medina sent would. Recording engineer was Gary Boyle music was by mall college. The producer was Thomson for the spontaneity show. Thanks to Tony. Hanna PJ live and everyone of the underbelly all of you for listening. The more information about this other episodes, guilty dot com. He just told me for saying. So I'm going to give it a go. This is literally taps is going to take like twenty years. So you go like, and it just doesn't make any sense. So then you just then you get like, you're so close. That's your look like a fourteen year old, Deborah. Yeah. This grace. It's yet is I worry about your marriage. By the way, how close to flo- saying just the onus. No. No. On this day. I when I say just be honest. I maybe just feel good. I'm not a dentist with that wasn't fussing.

UK Deborah front MS Ashley Hollywood Twitter Mark Watson Jess facebook London partner Jessica Bush Selena director Jon Hamm Eminem Pankhurst Yorkshire Glasgow New York City
 What happens to a place when its steel industry collapses  podcast

Today in Focus

30:18 min | 1 year ago

What happens to a place when its steel industry collapses podcast

"Today, look at life in a town when it still plant Claes's and the latest twist in a murder case, that's gripped island. The pride that people in red co have really derives from the steel industry, and you don't have to be that for very long before. Somebody will tell you their favorite fact, which is that the Sydney Harbour Bridge, the steel for that bridge was forged on Teesside in twenty fifteen the steel plant, and Blast Furnace in Redcar north Yorkshire town closed. Forget, ending one hundred seventy years of still making in the area. The families runs on the. It's demo pay the price at least three thousand workers at the plant and in the supply chain lost their jobs. Able, and he's nice official. He really care what the people on Tayside in Scrimshaw. And now the town of Scunthorpe in the Midland's has received the news that British still the town's biggest employer has gone into liquidation instantly putting five thousand jobs at risk. Steal which employs thousands of people in Scunthorpe is due to hear whether it will receive an emergency government bailout. This is news. Everyone in Scunthorpe hoped never to hear. They have survived decades of difficulties in this industry. And now the companies being liquidated. Scunthorpe whites. Deceive, British stale will be saved the gardens of England that it's hell impaired has been backed Radka to see how the closing of steelworks can change a community. You could see it believe, everywhere you are in Redcar, the hair, it kind of haunts the skyline the town's identity is very much kind of forged in the steelworks. There's a really profound sense of loss from the garden. I'm indirection today in focus. What happens to town? When is still what's closes? With scum than really desperately searching for a buyer. The moment what does this really mean for stale in the might not be the final chapter of steel? But it certainly got the potential to be one of the closing chapters in its heyday, the student street was employing, tens of thousands of people all across the u k now in a situation there, there's really only a small handful of still plants left. The biggest one is import Talbot in South Wales. And this also some still making it goes on in Scotland, but in England very little left. I've been to read karnal over the past couple of years to know just how devastating it can be when still leaves a town. On. I think we up -solutely gone full circle now because they know. What up and then to where we are now, somebody needs to task whereas the government's watched on the teeth. So buying tennis is a fifty three year old former steelworker from Redcar. Joe junior operator in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine so I was just all the twenty six. Yeah. And I finished up supervisor deputy shift monitor. Guy he's going to shiny bold hats. He's very friendly kind of guy a big firm handshake. So really all of his working life, twenty six years was, Spence among the kind of heat and the noise of red caused deal plans and the Blast Furnace in the cokeovens. So his, his, his whole life has been shaped by that experience and what happened to Brian, and his colleagues in two thousand fifteen so in September twenty fifteen a Brian had actually taken the day off work to attend the labor party conference hit, not long been elected, actually, as a labor councillor in Redcar, and he was sitting in the conference hall when his phone boast. Around me, and then the general secretary took me to one side. Gonna shoot works. And it was the news that he'd been dredging which was that's S S. I the Thai owners of the red car still plants was going into administration and his job and jobs of two thousand two hundred other workers. The red car plans were on the line. Brian, Dennis community union speaking in support of the motion conference. I am crowd say Sida. He decided it was worth less detects a plea to become than then prime minister to ask him to save the steel industry. I'm losing my job, six months ago. My wife was told she was going to be made. We don't we are now a household facing life with no work, and he really emphasized that it wasn't just about still it was about whole community. It was about families, and it was about a place and it was a very emotional speech, which really kind of punch during the goes. When you heard the time, musket everyone in this all everyone across the care stunned up for this industry standard for our families to save our stale. Thank you. Thank you. Stunning invasion in the conference hall, but it fell on deaf is in the governments and the government said that it was unable to bail out. SSI at the time. It kind of blamed a European Union rules on state, as you know, for many people if that Redcar and Cleveland is a local authority voted sixty six percents. Leave many people saw the steelworks closure in the previous year is very much feeding into that decision. Unless we you went back to record to meet Brian four years on how things for him now, kind of Chipper sorts of guy, so we met, we met on the beach in, in red coin brought his dock Darcy. So he got a job at the calicoes plant, and he just night shifts there. He didn't seem unhappy but he was very open about how different his life is now. Still open. I would still be that I out of out of finished my where career there. Proud to steal industry. Absolutely. Door the out of Tayside and they something you're there. It's been since I was a child growing Bridgestone. We got work that. We friends work, colleagues say. You know, then then risk of having the house repossessed, unlike quite a few of his former colleagues, but life is kind of lost its sparkle, I would say for Brian and his wife and he's understandably still quite angry about it. Twenty six year when a group of guys not grouping change anymore. Not long term. We wear like a family, and he said, well, you know, there's still quite a lot of bravado. We have a laugh. The main thing that we do is try to look out for one another. If somebody's got a new decent job, you know, maybe that's working away. It might be on the oil rigs or some people went to work on cross rail. The underground new ground line in London than they were always looking out for their mates and say, no, you know, you might be able to get work here. So a lot of them are able to get contracts. They're short term, which means they've lost their stability, and they are quite paranoid about what they will do when that contract finishes and it wasn't just the town of record that was hit when the still wet Claes was at, you also visited a small village just down the road called Colin how which is built around the skinning grove still works, still three or four hundred people who work the getting grow plums, and what they do that they make components for moving equipment diggers and things like that. And when you would you would directed by one of the workers to go meet a woman called Linda. Who was organizing a save. Our steel meeting, tell me about her, so I took the hill and knocked on her door and who's been let let me straight in to his light surprise. And she was really lovely and very open. Alec works as you can see it's right in the center of the, you know, I've grown up listening to the still classroom binding. We don't hear it people visits. How goodness we don't hear it because it's really could have really good positive noise because it means that the works vibrant, I'm what she said was that, when she heard the news about Bush's still in school. She just felt this go go. Punch really Saint hall goodness. Those poor families ready because my husband lost his job. The record steelworks was fitter I need work there for 'em over thirty. Think about so six years when lost his job. That one certainty in funding. Life is, is terrible. So when I will capacity Mani, and I felt like it just an awful feeding you know, we, we live in an area of deprivation will even an area where with suffered so many so much from the, the, the steady meshes, and she wasn't going to just stop by, and let it happen as I was driving to work this morning. I I've long commute to work. I was driving along with thinking about how it isn't just about steel list is not about just about steel is about a community. It is about the health inequalities accent. Tra a calls by what's happened over the last twenty years. And she taught in quite a beautiful poetry where I thought about the importance of still to this village and Colin, how is pretty isolated is ten miles from Redcar. But there's no trains, so that the prospects of employment for people soclean people, very limited. And she was very faithful for what it would mean if British still does go on with the skinning growth plans, and you've got to remember, the people working at the skinning grove still works in Colin how who thought they were one of the look ones because they were the ones who kind of got transferred, when says I closed in Redcar some of them from s I also went to work in Scunthorpe, and yet they're facing the same situation. Nearly four years down the line the same uncertainty in the same anguish of what's going to happen. The reason I went back to red car was to take the temperature of the place nearly four years after still. Left the town and walking around. I really think goodness, was what's in store is consult, if that still plunk goes, you know, twice as many jobs, this full, plunges there was in Redcar, and yet, the kind of whole that is left, but for weekly in the community in red cars enormous. The recent news of British stale in Scunthorpe going into liquidation on what this would mean for the town in the industry is at the full front of many people's minds business secretary, Greg clock has implied that all is not lost. So what happened to British stale and it be saved. Mills partly is the financial editor at the guardian and has been following the story. Britain was a huge still producer, one of the biggest in world. Roundabout nineteen seventy there was a three hundred thousand people working in steel industry now down to about thirty thousand obviously five thousand of those. All right, the re rebadged pretty still centered on the Scunthorpe still works. They produce good quality. Excellent quality product. It's just a very, very tough industry to be in what's been happening than with British stale. The last crisis was two thousand sixteen the deal that was done, then was for the, the Scunthorpe plant, and a few other assets were sold to company grabble capital, private equity firm that deal was transacted, a token, one pound because it was just going downhill Jonah is expanding its production opening blast furnaces. I'm producing a lot of steel, so the excess tends to end up on the on the open market. It drives down prices everywhere, and it's very volatile. You know, the two big ingredients Orion, Orion coal. They're both commodities that Rosen full often sharply and produces can be caught out, say, pretty still in by Crepeau. Actually compat- has gone into solvency what happened? How did it reached that point? Well, the fucked is behind it will not just the pool buck drop in the market. The company itself Grebo blames Brexit. If the UK were to leave the European Union without a deal come thirty first Tober, it is possible that tariffs could be put on still exported from the UK, and clearly if you are a European company looking to place in order still with Purdue still you will you might be nervous about that prospect. So you might go where the company said, orders, dried up of say it's grateful in here in this contol plants. But what good I mean, they have thousands of jobs on the line hair, what could have been done to stop this from happening. He may be further down the line in a few weeks that Greg clarkin the government have a tough decision to make to nationalize it or do they let it go bust. Clearly. Letting go bus would have severe consequences. It's nationalizing actually on the table has not been ruled out a suspect the government would much rather do some sort of public private partnership. That would be it easier political sell for a conservative government, and also reloading, Brits, still, I would have other consequences for the government. It's a Blast Furnace. Plants really two left in the UK going down from two to one would have severe locations. If you believe that still is strategic industry that is important for not just the rowers but for defense, even saints me. Have we taught Alycia the day that some people kind of tend to agree with Trump actually on the importance of steel industry to our country? Trump's firms close on the subject is still is if you don't have a steel industry, you don't have a proper country now not everybody agrees with everything, Trump says, but that sentiment will. Insured by quote, a lot of people across quarter wide range, at the political spectrum. It is an important industry. It's is done as a foundation industry, and it supplies other core industries, such as aerospace, such as automotive still is so important. Why, why isn't it then getting the same sector deals as those industries, you just mentioned like the car industry? Well, this is Bishop will be the government is what it to an ideology that says, still doesn't matter that much, and that actually let the market provide, and that it shouldn't subsidize businesses that are loss-making, so at the moment, it seems that the business secretary Greg Clark has bought sometime say, try and find a buyer will lead soon. There's no better stealing British. So, I hope that we together, and that's the point of coming to the workforce unions management that we can make goods case for a new. Investor to, to business forward. But we still don't know how much the government is willing to spend on buying time to look for a buyer, and if that's even going to happen to knows what happens if the plunk places closes than four thousand people would lose their jobs and that would have a devastating impact on that part of the world north Lincolnshire in particular, because what other replacement that would come in Scunthorpe to go down. That is a blow severe blow to the UK's still making capacity. Easter. It was odd. A lot of mollycoddling from my wife about some of my friends, and I'm more of a. Let's get on with it. Kind of passion. What I understood better. We'll coming from because they see the changes in me. I didn't see them changes what they did. So a lot has changed in the region around record. But one of the things is that Brian used to be a labour councillor, and huge paws the trade union, but things have changed for him on that front as well, haven't they so bombers labour councillor until three weeks ago, and the local elections when he decided not to stunned, and it was fun. She while while I was interviewing him on the beach is phone rung. Hello. And he was quite painful you ever. It was quite short shrift in just one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The Brexit party party. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Regulator. Don't record about half an hour. So what about? And he said we've been arguing from who had voted for. We've been arguing about this twenty sixteen. Three weeks. Why do is very wise. He changed and vote for the party. Well voted leave in the referendum, and he feels that the labor MEP's in the area with who me how frequent contact given the he was leaving politician. He just probably didn't stunned up for. For Redcar steel enough hours. Why on screaming from the rooftops while while you in the press every day in five thousand jobs on Tayside, because the government won't health and doing let them kid, I said, wet whereas condemnation from you. So I absolutely wanted Brexit think we will fall our own way. Any, any isn't anyone changing his party and his political leaning? Tell us about how things have shifted in the area. The north east of England, particularly the sort of post industrial north has long been thought of as labor party heartland. And then if you look at the results of the European parliament election from this week in Redcar and Cleveland, the Brexit party absolutely romped to thank all over fourteen thousand eight hundred votes. There is a lot of blame on the ear for what's going on. Nigel fraud came out. He directly Blondie here for the difficulties appartus stale. Is that something that a lot of people agree with I'd say, for most people, the kind of the mechanics of how the? The U works is not at the forefront of their mind. But to you say you what nobody did. Nobody said all this uncertainty about Brexit, and let's be making it really difficult for steel companies to plan ahead. Nobody actually said that. But that is something, which Garris stays who is the director, general of the trade association UK still that is a point that he made in a very powerful article he wrote for the observer on the weekends when he said, you know, I must be honest in stating that Brexit will not improve the situation for the steel sector, but it has the potential to cause a great deal of damage, and he was responding to claims by Nigel garage and others. That laid the blame for steals demise squarely at the eased or how did it feel then having been back in record after twenty fifteen four years down the line in the last week, it was just beautiful weather. The sun was shining hours. Using a lemon top, which is like this Teesside's sea ice cream delicious. Yeah, yeah. It's like a kind of Mr. whippy this lemon lemon swirl, top house eating ice cream, and looking at the sea, and the cliffs time and. And then he kind of looked to wonder action then you just see the steelworks still the these enormous in the Blast Furnace the coke ovens the conveyor belts, and you think goodness. It's kind of a really poignant reminder of everything that red car has lost. I went to, and I wouldn't wish that on me. West enemy takes people to places when the single livelihood go. The skills these lots of down that unique to an industry. I really, really deeply hope that red car can reinvent itself Bill, like Sheffield has actually in Sheffield used to be this deal city. And now it's university just last week was awarded the award for best engineering research in the UK is possible, but I think that there's still quite a bit of pain and misery ahead. And there are a lot of extorts dental forces that will buffer the town, which is already struggled so much as a result of stereotype. I can't say with any certainty that it will not only be able to recover but also thrive, but I really hope that it can. You can follow hell impaired, and Nils Pratt's work on this story at the guardian dot com. Coming up the unsolved nineteen Ninety-six murder of a French filmmaker in west cork in Ireland. Aspire higher at Disney institute summit. Unlike other conferences, where you only. Hear ideas at Disney institute summit is learning. That's fully immersive be inspired by Disney executives and discover their methods for improving customer experience and leadership excellence. Learn more at Disney institute dot com. Now it's a murder case, that's bewitched Ireland, soon after Sophie Toscan to plenty as body was found in nineteen Ninety-six Irish. Police identified Ian Bailey who lifted by as the prime suspect. He was never charged and he's always proclaimed his innocence. But this week he's on trial in his absence in a French court. Our correspondent, Rory Carroll. Spoke to him. It was just before Christmas, and nineteen Ninety-six that the body of Sophie Tuscon, plenty was discovered in a rural picturesque area of west cork her body was badly bludgeoned, and she had been murdered. She was a French filmmaker and the murder tracks a lot of attention in Orland Russo unusual and tragic. She had been staying alone at a holiday cottage at in west cork, and there were no witnesses to this murder soon afterwards. A local English freelance journalist, Ian Bailey who was a near neighbour of Sophie, started finding stories about the murder investigation, and he could be getting some good scoops on this, and then was a shocking twist to this, which was that, Ian Bailey became the prime suspect in the emerging vestich in. The Irish police known as the guard eat brought him in for questioning and this was the beginning of a twenty three years, saiga, which to this day remains on resolved the Gardy were, and I think, remain convinced that in Bailey, did it, but they've never been able to get enough evidence to actually convince prosecutors to charge him those no forensic evidence linking in belly to the murder. So in Bailey has been living this very strange and tortuous limbo. For twenty three years is always peds innocence from day, one up until this day. So now the story is, is become a soap opera in Orland. And now we're seeing the latest chapter with the start of the French trial against in Bailey. Investigation taken so many twists and turns, which remarkable is that he has never left west cork remains they're living in bohemian lifestyle to make ends meet. He makes pizzas, and then he sells them at a local market on a Sunday and the local job is that his pizzas are to die for, and this is indicative of the strange can atmosphere, vibes running the whole case. I mean it all hinges on. Did he do it or not? Ian bailey. He's been the subject of our podcast called west cork, which has become a huge viral hits and anybody who's listening to conclude that he has a narcissistic streak and that he actually enjoys this attention. And when I met him and spent a day with him in west cork this was my impression as well. People hearing island I have nothing do. Cody. Effort, a lunch in the cafe in Bantry and Bailey wanted to show that he is now no longer pariah in the community and then fact that he has friends and supporters we were sitting outside, and he would kind of wave at people and to show that in fact he is welcomed there. And the reaction from some people was mixed, and there was also slightly kind of Dr comic scene where he was asking the waitress. Oh, where are you from? Are you from Latvia? And she looked at a March tonight. Browns said, no, I'm from France. One of the reasons the police identified him early on as a suspect was that he had a record of domestic violence against his partner, yet at least three times assaulted her. So yes, he has a history of violence, but it does prove that he murdered so few on the plenty. No, it doesn't. So the French authorities have started at trial this week in Paris charging in Bailey with murder, he is, is not attending nor are his lawyers. So he's being tried in absent, and his expectation is that you will be convicted, if he is convicted, which I think those seem quite likely the expectation is that the French will then try to extradite him to serve, what could be potential life sentence. But a lot of lawyers here in Orland, fill that it's not going to happen that he will not grant that appeal in which case would be left with continued. Limbo, whereby Bailey is free in Orleans, but he can't really leave Orland, because these French arrest warrants are European-wide. What this means is that Bailey is a defect. Oh, prisoner on the islands of our land. And he can't leave here. An innocent man who has been persecuted and smeared for more than two decades, or you have a savage murderer who's living in the community and got away with murder, and that everybody knows they think in very they know that he did it. And yet, he's they're selling his pizzas is one of those two situations and frankly, probably will never know which one it is. He can meet more of Rory's reporting on the case at the garden dot com. That's all for today. My thanks to we'll recap and to hell impaired mills. Proudly Brian, I'm Linda, today's episode was produced by Brennan's out dove. And Gary Marshall, the sound design is by execute ta and the executive producers are film may not and the Jackson. We'll see you tomorrow.

Scunthorpe murder Brian Redcar Ian Bailey Blast Furnace UK west cork Tayside England Redcar Claes European Union Colin Orland Rory Carroll Teesside Brexit Redcar north Yorkshire