20 Episode results for "Xavier University"

Dear Bobcat Ep. 8: Soak it up

Ohio Today radio

07:57 min | 1 year ago

Dear Bobcat Ep. 8: Soak it up

"Welcome to Deere. Bob cat the podcast series from Ohio today radio where we ask high university alumni to write a letter to their first yourselves and read it on stage or in the booth. What would you say if you could go back and give that naive younger? You some advice? Reassurance. Or words of warning. Sid McFadden earned his bachelor's in business administration in one thousand nine hundred eight his advice soak it up and do it all. Here. Bob cat. Why who? You made it out of high school when to a great university. Go you. So you're going to have them last. This is going to be great. But I'm gonna give you a few suggestions that might help down a little bit along the way. So first of all. Be yourself. Just be your authentic self. Here's a look Luke for you. Everybody's insecure. Everybody's trying to figure it out. Just be yourself. You'll get much further much faster, and you'll meet some awesome who knew cool friends much faster too. So just do you and the second thing and this goes without saying, but have a blast really have a ton of fun classes. I of course, but this is a special time in your life. You're really fortunate to get to go to a great university. So just have a ton of fun. And while you're at it while you're having fun. Take advantage of everything that has to offer. And what I mean by that is you're going to have your friends, you're going to have your classes, you're gonna have awesome times uptown. Hopefully, you'll remember most of them. But don't forget to take advantage of everything. For example. It wouldn't hurt shouldn't take in cultural van more auditorium where you're digging through your class schedule. Looking for your next courses? Find a fun elective take. You'll be surprised how that comes in handy later in life. So take the Gulf class take a pottery class. You get the idea stretch along the way. And the next thing when you're about sophomore junior and you're debating about that semester abroad program. Don't talk yourself out of it don't second guess, the finances just do just sign up for it end do in very few times in life. Do you have the chance for an overseas adventure like that? So just sign up for end to it worrying about the finances later, you don't graduate with your friends. Exactly not semester. It's a. And last, but not least don't fall for it. There's going to be that class where your friends tell you about the professor who allows you to waive the final you're happy with your midterm grade. Just sign task turn in and go don't fall for sometimes they do sometimes they don't they're sneaky like that. So go ahead and study for the tasks and in doing so you're gonna void. The only see that ends up on your trains, grip when you have to explain over and over again and your first enter Hugh interviews how school so naturally it not too long of a check list. You've got this have a blast. Well, hi, said thanks for thanks for writing your letter and for reading it at our event at homecoming. If I could just ask why did you want to do it in the first place? Why did you want to write the letter? And then deliver it deliver in front of an audience. Will I thought that was kind of an interesting exercise? Did they when I saw the call letters? I thought well, what would I say to my freshman? So here there's a lot of life experiences happened, and you know, since graduating, so I just yeah. Really kind of thought about that. What would I what would I tell myself? So it was just kind of a fun kind of exercise electorate anyway. So that's why submitted it, and then honestly recently went to present. It was it's just out of my comfort zone. You know? I I don't really love being up there in front of group of people. But another Ma and I reminded me very much of on the podcast. I listen to regularly thought. Well, this is fun. That's good for you got the time. That's good for it. How fun with it? So what was the writing process like for you? I'm a little bit more detail. What what kind of memories came up or emotion while you were sitting down to actually figure out what to say? Will I thought about, you know, thanks, you gestion that I have given to other folks. Like, my my niece and nephew, my nephew, graduated from you and my niece currently our students. I just thought about things that I've talked about them just things I've realized since I graduated, but one of them was just, you know, you're you're kind of new to campus, and you're feeling insecure. You think everybody else's got all this experience or the bigger city? And I, you know with when I started everybody's trying to figure it out. Everybody's coming to campus for a place of uncertainty bit and security. So just be comfortable knowing that you're all in the same, basically. So that was once gestion to myself. It's just you know, relax and be yourself and another suggest that I had was the overseas experience. You the semester abroad. I I didn't do that. When I was in undergraduate student, but as an adult I love my travels, I tried to seize. At least once a year. And I was think by way back in time. I would definitely take the opportunity to go over for an extended period and just dig into culture for an extended period like that. So that's where I came a suggestion. So it's just a lot of reflection. You know, what you know? What would I actually tell my freshman sell? So I kind of thought about it and started the letter. What did you leave anything out? Is there anything you'd like to add at this point for me? It was just I guess really savoring the the experience I think you know, when I was there's a freshman. I probably didn't fully appreciate everything you could do on campus. All the things you could dig into for example. Now, I'm I took a ceramics a few years ago, and I found out. Oh, wow. Oh, you has one of the top schools in the nation. I think gosh, if I could go back in time, I would release seek out some loose things outside of my major religious explore and stretch. And I think at the time, you know, you're you're into your class is your into your friends, but I think I would seek out some of that extra stuff on campus. And everyone's just just we everything I could others for years. I probably didn't fully do that back then. But I think that would be my my dishes suggestion is just you're outside of your day to day and just. Make the most of it while you're there and explore stuff. It's not, you know, writing your major or things that your immediate group. French. Today. Sit holds an MBA from Xavier university and works in Columbus, Ohio as director market development for large pharmaceutical distributor, thinking about what you'd say to your younger self. We want to hear it. Right. Your own to your Bob cat letter and Email it to Deere. Bob cat at Ohio dot EDU. Or recorded by calling seven four zero five nine seven one thousand. We might just feature you on a future episode. You can also visit Ohio today dot org slash Deere. Bob cat for more episodes of the show or find us in Google podcasts. I tunes in Spotify. Do you? Bob cat is produced by Ohio today radio and record it at WBZ studios in Athens, Ohio.

Bob cat Ohio Deere Sid McFadden Gulf class Spotify Xavier university Luke Google Hugh professor Columbus WBZ studios director market development Athens
Behind The Lens episode 98: Public resources, public mandates

Behind The Lens

41:30 min | Last week

Behind The Lens episode 98: Public resources, public mandates

"This week on behind the lens with school set to reopen and less than a week. We won't have a full picture on whether Labor Day crowds affect covid case counts meanwhile however cases are rising and university student populations and public school employees a worrying sign. The library is facing a possible thirty to forty percent cut in their annual budget, which is part of a ballot proposal. The mayor is pushing, but the public will have their say on it in this fall's election. Also this week New Orleans Mayor La Toya Cantrell administration is at odds with Justice Department the Sheriff's Office and civil rights lawyers over whether or not the city can be legally compelled to build the facility known as face three. And later to local HP, presidents discuss their decision to participate in a vaccine trial they wrote an open letter to their communities to do the same. Those stories insight and analysis coming up on behind the Lens On the podcast this week education reporter Marta Juice in is here hi Marta. Government and cultural economy reporter Michael is Eckstein is with US Hello Michael. Criminal Justice reporter Nick Crystal, also joining in high nick. And the editor of the Lens Charles Maldonado. Later Philip Kiefer and I our health report talked to the president of Dillard. And Xavier University about their participation in the Pfizer vaccine trial administered locally through auctioner they wrote a letter to the community encouraging black Americans to join in I. However, local news here like Memorial Day Marta and Fourth of July holidays people were packed into the French quarter over the long labor. Day. Weekend race concerns about another potential spike. Mayor Cantrell did not mince words in her commentary about the activity and the dangers it posed. Cases are taking up a New Orleans which city officials are linking to the return of university students and some emails recently surfaced, which revealed a number of school employees had cova. It's all happening as young students are packing their bags or ready to go back into classrooms are the recent crowds in the city concerning. School Officials Marta. So, school officials wouldn't explicitly stated they were concerned about the Labor Day crowds that we saw on specifically at Bourbon Street They really basically said that you know it's one of myriad concerns or points data that they're tracking at all points in time. So sounds like they are just gonNa Track case counts and positively rates over the next week. If they do need to make some type of immediate switch off at net, they would do based on data. Did, they have a hard line about a specific number they were tracking. Cases. As an example as opposed to positivity rate and they pivoted on the earlier in the summer they said, they wanted to see less than fifty new cases a day, and then last week. Backtracked on bags they were they were focused on positivity rate instead and they want outnumbered. percent do they give any indication as to why they changed that criteria? Essentially said that because. Local universities were doing more testing in that that was going to lead to a higher absolute number of new cases each day. So that's why kind backed up that case cow, but at certainly was an. Surprising. You found some cases in New Orleans schools over the summer. What that was through some emails that were came to light what? What is the story with that? We did. So the district's way of reporting cases in schools is to have their schools report reporter email account So Charles let's emails through a public records request and we found that there had been at least twenty five cases of staff members having tested positive at nineteen schools, which is about one quarter of public schools missing. So in other words that they're not obligated to report those cases, you just found because of the open records request. what is the obligation? Is there one to report cases? For the schools are having for to the district. I would say it's unclear whether obligations to the public. Schools are reported I supposed to report to the district and the district supposed to report should the Louisiana Health Department? It's unclear exactly. Exactly what is ultimately going to be presented to the public note a notably today's Thursday this is GonNa be publishing. Friday. But today's Thursday yesterday the Department of the State Department of help. Bring back some school outbreak numbers, right. They did. So they say they have. Now about just a little under four hundred schools statewide participating in your Corner Early Warning System, and that's about a quarter of public schools or you know one fifth of all school statewide. And looking at this right now on the LBH website and they recorded a fifty nine cases statewide including thirty four students and twenty, five faculty or staff. Now, I have to imagine that that number is on the low side because twenty five is the number out in New Orleans alone. Right. Okay. It's really pretty bare state right now. So like Joel said. We hope to see some additional information about what parishes during these schools in these cases located single school. Right, is there is there. Wide outbreak in one school, for example, and you know just a couple of other schools have one or two cases. Is there any way to find out what schools data points by school by school i? Think we're just going to have to see how they handle it. Initially, they were not naming the nursing homes for outbreaks for happening that eventually they started magnus. I think it's just really. It's ever evolving how specific they are reporting these types of things. I also think specifically for catered follow one of the numbers and we WANNA see his the number of staff were quarantining because that's GonNa Affect Day to day operations of school I think it'd be very important data point is fault. Okay Thanks. All right up next Michael on your beat New Orleans mayor. La Toya Cantrell is pushing a ballot proposal that would shift lot of property taxes around. The loser in this equation is the library system. It sounds like several years ago. The city approved a new library tax. This proposal eliminates that revenue. If it passes it, it results in a thirty to forty percent cut in their budget, the administration. Has said over and over again that they don't expect service cuts as a result but they're a little vague around it and you had a big interview with a top official this week. Why is the Cantrell administration pushing this particular solution to their budget problem? Yes so so I think the first justification for this plan is is really a timing issue. Sue overall proposal it doesn't just include the library includes a package of property taxes worth about twenty, five, million dollars a year. That are set to expire at the end of two, thousand, twenty one, and so basically, this is a attempts to re up those taxes and reallocate those taxes a year before they actually expire. So the asked there would be if voters vote this down on the administration, have another year to to go back and try again to to kind of get these taxes re up. And have that extra year where were these taxes will continue? So I'd say that the reason why this proposal is coming is a timing issue. Now why the Control Administration support this allocation this reallocation is a little more complicated so Like you said, the biggest loser in this proposal would be the library they would lose roughly eight million dollars give or take kind of winners. In in this proposal, we'd see four point five, million dollars from the library to economic development and then between one and two million dollars that would go to housing in blight initiatives as well as another one or two million dollars doubt would go to the city's infrastructure fund. I think in terms of the justification that the the real justification behind the Cantrell who've, I think you know part of this is obviously the context of the coronavirus crisis. The cantrell administration is right now saying that we're facing over one hundred, fifty, million, dollar budget shortfall which is pretty huge considering you know we have a general fund budget in a regular year you know a little over you know between seven hundred and eight hundred, million dollars. So it's pretty significant. And the argument from them has been that the library has more than it needs while he's other critical services are underfunded and now will be even more underfunded facing budget crisis I? Think it's also worth noting. that. There's definitely been tension between the cantrall administration in the library. Especially, since the beginning of the coronavirus crisis, we've written several stories where library members have spoken out against Cantrell policies having to do with come into work, how to handle library closures when when an employee has come down with the pirates so I, I'm not trying to imply that that is the justification, but in terms of background for this decision I, think it's important that you know the library staff has You know been been at times vocal in their opposition to certain policies. Yeah. The critical thing to note here. Is that the Cantrell administration sort of confusingly. Has Been saying that. The libraries this isn't going to affect the libraries. Everything's GonNa be the same even even with this new tax that they got just a few years ago the doubled their budget they've been using most of those dollars at least for the past two years said they've recently opened up. New Branches and expanded certain services. They're saying that everything's going to be the same and really providing little explanation for that, and just this week we sort of got the first explanation for or how they would propose to do that, and the the suggestion incoming administration seems to be that you know staff pets are not unlikely. This best is now as to the question of how you with with a system that spends most of its money on staff how you maintain the same level of service with with fewer step. The answer to that question from the administration is not clear beyond saying well, you know we'll. We'll let the library head decide how that work. To put a number hind it. You know basically. Disagreement year to give you an idea of the funding gap that the library was face here the library claims, library, board claims they need around nineteen point four million dollars to function basically with the same level services they had this year you administration is claiming actually only need seventeen point five, million dollars under this new proposal they would only get between twelve and thirteen million dollars in property taxes. So the question about. Even, if we took that lower level that the administration says they need Again like Charles saying it's it's unclear how you fill that gap but you know in conversations with the administration personnel side seems to be where The property tax you know just just note that basically kids the libraries budget the money they make off of things like minds I think amounts to maybe a few hundred, thousand dollars per year. It's not very much whereas property taxes you know bringing bringing in somewhere along the lines of twenty, two, twenty, two dollars here. Every question it seems like one of the implications of of what the city is saying that the library should be able to continue their service with A. Drastic budgetary cut and then also a lot less staff and I'm wondering what current staff members think of that. I mean I think the implication if you kind of extrapolating. The staff on working harder they aren't being utilized truth to the extent that they could be in the library will be just fine without them air it. You know what does this affect say? I've talked to staff on anonymously I mean they're obviously not happy at like you say I had a pretty kind of confusing exchange. Right talked to CEO the chief Administrative Officer Gilbert Montagne Tanya yesterday again by their calculations in seventeen point five, million, dollar budget five, million dollars of that is operational twelve point five million dollars for staff and kind of kept saying the same thing over and over which is you know when you walk into a library all the books you see you know like the buildings, the lights on that will cost five million dollars and the rest is personnel. And he didn't really explain you know. How that how operations would remain consistent without staff without people to put the book on the shelf. But yeah, I mean the library staff that I've talked to you. You know I think that They feel that they're all the city being underrepresented You know I think you'll Vermont Tanio, who really has taken the really the top administration officials who deals with budgetary concerns in the city I'm he's very much into this concept of figuring out cost per service of within department. So how much does it cost to feel the nine? One, one call How much does it cost? You know to to to keep a fire department or a firehouse? Men for a full year and I think that. He didn't seem to be able to make that bright line. You know dollar amount to service connection with the library as much and. I don't know if he was making argument that. Their budget is kind of. Too ambiguous for him to figure that out or if he hasn't tried. But that again was something any kind of harped on over and over is is he wants to figure out exactly what the cost exert, what the services are exactly how much it costs to deliver those services and make budgetary decisions on kind of using that calculation which I think might be a little bit harder for the library which has more informal on purpose is valued to communities therein, and this is a special election. What is the deal with the election? December fifth. It's not a specially called election. It's an election that the general election or the offices that are being elected others. President obviously is their ballot language set yet. So you can read some of the proposition language here. you know the beginning is kind of you know specifics about the mills and the money but then it said with the proceeds tax me a to be used for the purposes of constructing, improving, maintaining an operating public libraries in does note that this roughly one mill tax will be in lieu of a formal tax So again, like Charles is saying information is there I do think that the key right now is Clarifying what a Yes vote an a no vote means. Rate and in will make more confusing I think is. If if this is voted down if this proposal if voters do not you know. If voters say no to the proposal. The question is what happens next now I believe what happens in the short term is that this tax has another year on it afford expire so it would continue. Into Twenty twenty one. But then the question is what does the Cantrell administration do at that point. Did, they put up another village to. Raise similar millage a new one. Do they cut the library village completely and I think? Some of the messaging from. At Least Library Director David. Morley has seemed to imply that it's this amount or nothing, and again it it's I. Think the key over the next couple of months is going to be to clarify exactly you know what happens if this passes and what happens if it doesn't. and. There's still a lot of open questions around them. Okay. Great. Thanks, Michael you're listening to behind the Lens I'm Caroline Heldman my guest this week, our martyred juiston Michael Isaac Stein, Nick Crystal Lens editor, Charles Maldonado, and later Philip Keefer our health reporter with part of our conversation with the President of Dillard and Xavier. University's on their participation in Pfizer's covid vaccine trial, which is being administered locally by the OCHSNER medical system. Hi. My name is Krista Doolan Niamh the social media manager. For the Lens Our mission is to educate, engage and empower readers with information and analysis necessary for them to advocate for a more transparent and just governance that is accountable to the public that takes time and it takes resources as a nonprofit. We count on our donations to fund our work. We please consider helping us to do this important work by making a tax deductible donation. Now at the Lens Nola Dot Org Slash. Donate thanks for your support. Okay Nick tell us what's happening with phase three of the New Orleans jail. Why is it being argued about in federal court? So, base three has been about for you know at least seven years. When the new jails constructed back in two thousand eleven. When when it was ordered to be constructed, bacne doesn't was required to house every every category in May with the exception of image with acute mental illness. Now, there's some confusion and disagreement over whether or not the sheriff built the jail in good faith attempting to to relieve provide space for all inmates. But what has happened is that there there is not a space for mental acuity mentally ill. Inmates what the city has done instead is is sent them to a safe acidity called Elaine on correctional, center near Baton Rouge, and that's where they've been being housed since two thousand fourteen. The state recently said that they are no longer interested in in housing those inmates for the city, and now isn't he needs to figure out what to do because the current jail facility has been deemed insufficient for housing. So this phase three is is the solution. A sheriff's office has been pushing for some time and there have been different variations on it. What they've kind of settled on his eighty nine bed facility, the city at least since two, thousand, seventeen over over two. Mayoral administrations has been at least hesitantly on board and has been moving forward with this plan most recently that the judge put. His foot down in two dozen nineteen and said, okay, really need solution is prisoners will be returning them and the city has been providing monthly status updates. Giving the judge updates on how the construction is going. Until recently, and the city decided that they no longer want to build the facility on toward as Michael mentioned. ONE HUNDRED FIFTY MILLION DOLLAR OF REVENUE SHORTFALL Pointed to the declining jail population and said this, this is a waste of taxpayer money. We don't WanNa do this anymore. And SERTA. The the the current legal question is there's a provision in federal law that says that as part of a prison reform litigation, which is what the consent decree case is. That says that a federal judge can order a municipality or anyone a to you to build a prison building the question now is, would the judge in this case you ordering the city to build a prison bill right the city says, yes, that's the that will be the effect of him a of the judge sticking to his earlier order. And the people on the other side including the lawyers for the plaintiffs class of inmates are saying, no, the city, the the judge is. The city to carry out a plan that it agreed to with the sheriff's office more than era. Now, than the sort of political background on this sort of getting into this history again, is that the you know when we used to have Orleans. Parish Risen which was the old jail Mississippi jail. They could hold I believe something like seven thousand people in often held close to that number. In a city of you know at the time pre Katrina about four hundred and eighty thousand eagles service. It was a huge number of people who were regularly in jail in in New Orleans. Now in twenty eleven under a lot of pressure from criminal justice reform advocates and others this city agreed to we're going to build a new jail to take the team money we got we're GonNa, we're going to build a new jail, but it's going to be much smaller and and since then criminal justice reform advocates have come out against consistently come out against any proposed expansion to that bed. Count in jail this keep in mind this eighty nine is significantly scaled down from where we were seven or eight years ago when face three was first being contemplated and Sheriff Gusman was talking about a six to seven hundred bed facility. Okay. So there are two kind of true questions and and one is what Charles mentioned, which is is the judge actually ordering the construction of a new jail? Facility or ordering the city to move forward on the agreement at an agreed upon plan, and what is the distinction between those two and what is the overlap there, and then there's another question ogres the actual language of the law arguing about whether or not it actually does in fact, prohibit a judge from ordering the construction of a new jail facility if it's necessary for providing constitutional care to the. Detainees in jail, and that's a question that from what I can tell has not been really sufficiently litigated to have a clear answer on. So the the lawyers for the civil rights lawyers who represent the inmates at the jail argue that in fact, the the law doesn't prohibit judge doing that that if the judge finds that the construction of new facilities, absolutely necessary than they have the right to do it. So that is is where you get into this murky statutory language of the the actual law says that. Nothing in this section shall be construed to authorize the courts in exercising remedial powers to order the construction of prisons. That language shall not be construed authorize is not as clear as this law prohibits judge from ever. Ordering construction new prison. You know I think that that for for the plaintiff, they'd rather not even deal with that question that they prefer to just say look this isn't the ordering construction of a new prison. This is the ordering of us to proceed with a prior agreement. So we could be in for. A continued battle I mean, it's just going to go on for a long time. Yeah I think we'll have some clarity. There's a hearing on October fit but as Charles mentioned, these decisions could be appealed. So I think I think it is likely to be a drawn out process I will I will note that there's a criminal justice committee meeting today and the city I believe will be presenting on alternatives to face three which. They've mentioned. Hostilities including. Renovating of Florida current jail to properly adequately care for knees in May populations or permanently renovating. Facility. A separate jail facility noticed the temporary to mention center and make that a permanent facility. Is there anything specifically that people with acute manati illness that they can house versus? Some other specific population, it's the it's it has to do with the lay out of jail in the size of the tears basically the tear tears were. Built in such a way to have sixty person you. and. We're talking about a population that has to be more tightly segregated. is off in it is often a lot smaller. You're you're actually kind of talking about two or three separate populations that would all have to be segregated which which would mean. Under the current design taking hundred. Three units totalling one hundred, twenty, two, one, hundred eighty beds off line to house a couple of dozen not enough. Suicide resistant cells They don't have enough space for therapy sessions and programming that. That their physical infrastructure in the jail, they'd talk about a Tim haven't I haven't been in jail, but a tier mezzanine level that is conducive to self harm. So if you have a mentally ill detainees who is looking to hurt themselves, there is a infrastructure within the jail that that is. Actually connected to that which is. Leo Keep your eye on it for us. Thanks to all view, we'll talk to you next week. On September second the President of Dillard, Xavier University's in New Orleans wrote an open letter to their students staff and faculty informing them that they are already participating in the national vaccine trial by pharmaceutical company. PFIZER BEING RUN and administered locally by the OCHSNER medical system. Our health reporter Philip Keefer an I spoke to Dr Walter Kimbro and Dr Ronald Variet- about their. Decision to participate in the trial, we were unable to have them on the phone together due to scheduling conflicts. So we spoke to them separately up first dean of Dillard University. Dr. Walter Kimbro a native of Atlanta Dr. Kimbro. received his undergraduate degrees from the University of Georgia and Miami University and Ohio, and earned his doctorate and higher education from Georgia State University. Thank you again so much were coming on I wanted to start off by asking how did you learn about the Maxine, Tom? Versus. So like mostly. Acropolis. An inordinate amount of time. Watson Caitlyn Russo Either Weisinger listening during the day. So you hear lots of different stories in one of the key stores I kept hearing was that. You don't have role in the trials that represent the overall out demographics of the country, and some even argued that you needed. A greater number of people who are all sleep impacted by this will to ensure that the vaccine works. So why night? Rittenhouse? Watson. End You know hearing about listen. I told my wife. I want do trial and I think there was a story about a news anchor in Savannah, Lang, woman was the first person to be involved international studies. My want to do it, but you just sorta go back to do what you normally do and the last. Doctor is your call me he saying I can't tolerate anybody this predominance banks drought. What do you think about getting into it in sort of you know big on the Science, and so he said, let's make the other people participate. I'm thinking about doing this so. That was that was easy for me. It was just it was just as simple. So we did that in the end we got together ID Sonata Really. Trying to tell you, it's a really generic them. Here's the research. This issue is a problem we decided bad. We're GONNA participate while to think about participants not a lot of days. People have we know testing just thinking about? Lettuce says so we've got upset about. What because. That's not what we wrong. We just say consider I I didn't think I had to explain what consider me but obviously I did something I had been thinking about doing before he reached out to. You know I think it's the least. I can do I'm a person who can do my job telecommute. There are people who can people who live by me who were dying disproportionately from this disease. So What is my responsibility? So for me I was like this something I do. So I chose to do and I asked other people to think about doing it and people don't want to. Your Business. I didn't realize that people were upset about the letter. Upset about his standard what is happiness for allow African? Americans embraced the distrust in medical treatment as a home. So a lot of people have been referencing the test experiment, which we we put that in a letter. So the were hiding from you look we know people I have issues with this because why mark is that people don't fully understand experience and they have it in their mind that they injected them with syphilis no these people have syphilis, but they never got treated they were just studying. People don't understand that are saying you are pressuring students to get involved letter students. Parents are still this family stay our alumni of universities. It was a broad range of the say is to university leaders is something that we're doing. We courage you to think of attitude. That's obvious. But people. Like you're you're making students be guinea pigs and you're forcing on this I. I can't force the students graduate in four years if I could I would have been a long time ago. So basically, how do you think forcing them to participate in a twenty six months vaccine study when I can't force people to get interns you? But it brings up the bigger issue at which is I think the medical community they're really concerned because they can't get a representative sample in trials because you have a strong segment of people that are they don't trust us it all. So I I recognize and I that's a part of the challenge I can't fix it I'm not a scientist but at the resource communities gotTA figure out how do we get the people who will need this vaccine who have been disproportionately Negatively how do we make sure that the vaccine works for? No particular don't have enough of them who are willing to be in a trial of cement works. A tough question. Dr Kimbro based on what you just said do you think that the distrust of the medical community from the black community is generational or do you think it's crossed generation on just this cost generation? So as not just people who would be old enough to really understand. Tuskegee. Some of that's been passed down but there are people who were filled you know and I think. There's some truth in terms of fortunate medical care based on race you get stories about that. There aren't enough black doctors people don't there's a trust not going to the doctor so that so I is layer at, it's a very complex problem, and so I think we gotta figure out which I think. Here's recently a gift one, hundred, million dollars in Michael Bloomberg game to the ACC medical schools to try to figure out how do we produce more black dots so we've got have more. Black faces working in black communities addressing public issues. So this is multigenerational. Now say you got young people who are just saying you know I'm concerned I don't know what they're gonNA put it in my body you know and it's like. At this, I struggle with that because we're more as one person on twitter yesterday said, he says, seems like people are more afraid of. In, the virus. And so that's the challenge. You might have really good a vaccine that mean studies now African Americans, we get the flu vaccine less than the general population. Kodak, they're talking about something else but we noticed this deadly I mean Louisiana African Americans are thirty three percent of the state. For forty deaths. We have one of the highest disparities of poorest proportion of population in the country we're like number two or three. Yet you have people who don't want anything to do with vaccines I think. For me I I just learn how difficult this issue is. The Dean of Dillard University Dr. Walter Kimbro speaking with health reporter Philip Keefer from the Lens on September second Doctor Kimbro along with his colleague, the Dean of Xavier University of Louisiana Dr C. Reynolds. Gerrad a letter to the students staff and Faculty of their schools informing them that they are participating in the national vaccine trial by pharmaceutical company. Pfizer being run locally by auctioner. The full conversations with both men can be found at our website the Lens Nola dot org up next portion of our discussion with Dr C. Reynold Barrett of Exhibitor A. Haitian. Native Dr Variet- received his undergraduate degree in biochemistry from Columbia. University and a Ph D. in biochemistry from. Mit. Letter refers specifically to. Historic? Racist. Unethical medical research in the US specifically. The Ski Experiment. Mitch investigators with. The US Public Health Service with home care from a group of white men infected with syphilis. To study how the disease progresses untreated how do you want members of your community that you address the letter to to understand this vaccine trial in light of that history? In. History in isn't for to acne use our knowledge to make informed decisions. And informed decisions have to do with making sure that you have people can be trusted. We'll manage the vaccine twelve at the acting the transparent way. Different. Understand that the TUSKEGEE experiment is up want to be forgotten. But. We should not presume that the of today in this vaccine tribe Pfizer undoing. Is the SIMS Tuskegee experiment. What is what the different stuff like is one is you do have human subjects, Comedians, elevators open in in that membership with people who actually all are material but also that need these standards for informing people about the trial are very clear people inform things like that. That was not cleared that in the testing expand that it. What was your? Fault. So they are different understanding that the Arizona pats. CanNot prevent us from doing the things that we need to help ourselves, and I would admit mentioned something that what one of the piece that we must not let that happen. Is that as it was with masking. Which? It innocent point in January February one. Size. Suddenly, wearing the mask became question of whose sides on side are you on? We were defending ourselves answer because essentially the twos that will protect and save lives. Right. We have come to the sites. Vaccine whether it is scheduled vaccine with the trial or win a vaccine is deployed, she need based on good science as asking should be done. Should not allow get the size in misinformed so that to me new from ourselves in from our people we love. With basic tools that can protect That until it took, Tuskegee was important as a we're not letting ski right now in what the key different talk if we want to do, we need to be atention. In ask questions in scrutinize who and what is being done. In Hugh have deep expertise in how to perform that kind of scrutiny. How would you ask other members of the community who maybe also affected but don't necessarily have the same immunology expertise to to do that kind of scrutiny I say that with a non science knowledge whether any layman's Asia elsewhere. The NAS questions basically can who are being in property about about this. And any person understand that is important for if we all want to benefit from from from the Vaccines Wilson to be involved in India. We also because we also want to know how they will affect us. It is important that some people do that it is not important that everyone do that. But some people have to do. So it is an informed judgement that the that. Is An issue are in a period where trust is a very fragile thing? The many people we we we've been. Unfolding educate not to trust anyone. Speak to your doctor. Speak Speak. Speak Trust. Do not speak suburb far away from you and. That in some people would have to be involved. Is for similarly to to come to that level of trust I understand that but understand that others will have to comfort level of trust if you want. To do the swell. And we'll have to trust each other in Ingrid aways. Part of that is by being more transparent make sure that there are people around the table like me. So I think we want we want others around the table who can trust in and Could still. Can Ask questions. But also understand if the people are running these trials, they can fail. They're are not communicating to any Layton. CanNot get justice specialist. Language of basically vaccination -nology drowsy protection can explain to emulators. They've right. Talked about the memory that you see if your body remembers right. I can understand that right but then you also have some side effects Thomas side effects the by headaches talk talk about hammocks talking about muscle ache talk about doesn't keep you from combat to work. She wanted right. You see your job is being that person is taking on the role of explaining to. Influence its incident I think it's also by just getting example and I come from a school of thought and also a religious. Tradition that says sometimes, he preached words but most some type of creature was on win a seri- to find Zappin what a well in fact meetings wha what what, what can I do? We could do now you do it it's a voluntary choice, but understand. The Dean of Exeter University of Louisiana DR C? Reynolds Barrett. This is behind the lens of podcasts from the Lens New Orleans first nonprofit nonpartisan public interest newsroom. I'm Caroline Heldman. Thanks to our guests this week Martin juice and Michael Isaac Stein. Nick Crystal Lens editor Charles Maldonado Health reporter Philip Kiefer and our special guests the deans of Xavier University and Dillard University Dr c Reynolds Barrett, and Dr Walter. Kimbro. You can read all the weeks other news along with opinions our website for Lens Nola Dot Org you can also hear a bonus episode which is our full conversation with Doctors Brett and Kimbrough at the lentil dot org. Thanks for listening.

New Orleans Charles Maldonado reporter Michael Mayor Cantrell cantrell administration Pfizer Xavier University Dillard Philip Keefer editor president Dr. Walter Kimbro Dillard University Philip Kiefer Nick Crystal HP
Session 79: Managing Struggles with Fertility

Therapy for Black Girls

42:57 min | 2 years ago

Session 79: Managing Struggles with Fertility

"Welcome to the therapy for black girls podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host Dr, joy, Hardin, Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, to get more information, visit the website at therapy for black girls dot com. And while I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for relationship with a licensed mental health professional. A our. Thanks so much for joining me procession seventy nine of the therapy for black girls hot today. I'm joined by another one of my amazing line sisters for a discussion about infertility. I guess there is today is Dr Andrea Pete doctor, Pete is a licensed clinical psychologist with a private practice in downtown Decatur Georgia where she specializes in women's mental and reproductive health. Her practice focuses on working with Tila Tilleke concerns. Third party, reproduction, miscarriage and perinatal laws, perinatal mood and anxiety disorders, birth, trauma relationship concerns and other mood disorders. She also has a specialty in working with university students, Dr Pete. Received her doctorate in clinical psychology from the Georgia's Gula professional psychology, her masters of public health degree with a maternal and child health concentration from two lane university and her undergraduate degree from Xavier university of Louisiana, which of course is where we met. Dr Peden I discussed some of the cultural issues that impact the conversation around black women, infertility. Some of the alternative paths motherhood her clients have employed how she helps clients manage their mental health through these processes, and she shared her favorite resources for anyone who wants to learn more about the topic. If something really connects with you while listening, please share it with those on social media using the hashtag TB BG in session. Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for joining us today dri. Thank you for having me Dr. Joy. I'm so excited to be here very excited to have you happy. Our schedules were finally able to align to get you on the podcast. Yeah. And I do think it's really important really timely for you to be here chatting with me because there have definitely been lots and lots of conversations around, particularly if feels like, you know, just in the media in kind of in community. So can you tell me what are some of the most common causes of infants? Yeah, you know, infertility impact a lot of people in their lot of names that we do know a lot of things that we don't know. And so from a risk factor perspective, there's lots of things especially thinking about women. There is history of fibroids into mutual says, probably cystic ovarian syndrome about forty percent of people who have in Dmitry uscis will experience some degree of infertility, and you know, our measure you're aware would in Dmitry else's is, or our listeners really know what that is. But when Mike, there's a tissue that similar to the tissue in the uterus, that kind of get an other part. Of the pivot area and it can make it difficult to sustain a pregnancy in the Politik ovarian syndrome that I mentioned previously is a hormonal imbalance where there is an excessive amount of engines. So that's also risk factor. Other respecters, our previous histories of start in s. t. is being really significantly out of your BMI weight range. So being very overweight or very underway also something to be thoughtful about, and then there's some pieces of infertility that we just don't know what's causing it. So that's also extremely frustrating for people as well. I'm glad you said that because I would imagine that that is really frustrating right leg to be not have anything going on that you mentioned in still not be sure why you cannot sustain. Yeah, you know what I think is really hard. I think you know about is about a third. They're going to be different numbers out there. There's about a third of like when you thinking about couples who are experiencing infertility. About a third of that. It can be due to infertility over Tilleke issues related to the woman about a third of that can be particularly issues related to the mail. And then third, that is just sort of unexplained. And I find a lot of my clients, they, they really have a hard difficult time with that. Yeah. So what are some of the most common kinds of concerns you know when you have other singles or couples coming to you with concerns? What are some of the most common things that they're struggling with? Well, you know, I think I all there's just a lot of grief and I think sometimes people don't recognize it as grief or realize it as grave a think for many people, and this is true for all people, but for many people, they spend a majority of it life trying to prevent pregnancy. And then they make a decision or choice to sort of expand their family. And then when that doesn't happen naturally or easily, then there's a great process that happens with that. And then for people who are single, they're sometimes a grief process that happens with that of not happy the way that they thought it might happen in. So I see a lot of that. I think some of the other stuff that I see a lot of is a lot of anxiety. If you think about it, like you're constantly sort of worrying and waiting in wanting to know is gonna happen this month is not gonna happen this month. And then if you're under going, any kind of veteran treatments than this, you're often thinking about like, well, what am I eating? What am I putting my body and my doing all the right things taking my medicine at the right time. I am I to stress out in my not stressed out enough. Should I be worried about this? I think a lot of times people are experiencing. A lot of things I eighty could cause it's just a really exiled provoking process, and I would imagine that would be really hard to work with. Right. I mean, because I think you know, just the entire like whole idea of like either becoming pregnant or not becoming pregnant, like there's just a lot of invite around that entire process. And yeah. How, how do you work with your clients to try to MIT? Some of it ends -iety. Well, you know, I think the first thing is Val. Dated, you know, I think a lot of times a lot of well-meaning meaning people in, you know, my clients lives are Mike, don't really about it. He stressed that about it. You know, I got pregnant when I start thinking about it, you know. And I think people are sort of really will intention when they're saying that. But I also think that you know there is some validity in that vicious something that you really cannot control, and that is making you feel anxious in. So the one of the first things I do is really try to validate their experience, give him a place to be able to put it out there in process it because I don't think they really have those places in not because people don't care is because people want them to feel better. They don't want him to worries that it try and take it away. And then I think the other thing that I really try to help clients is to stay at grounded in the present moment is possible. And so really a lot of mindful news is really helpful when working with this because you can only do what you can deal with was right in front of you right. Now, you don't know what's going to happen next week when new are expecting European or you don't know what's going to happen or what the result of his next is going to be. So really try to help people get into more of a Michael space in really learn how to anchor and fills in a prison moment. So that's something that I do a lot in. It's like those kinds of strategies and techniques would be really helpful, you know? So you know, I know that there are lots of options, you know, like if people have kind of exhausted all of the options related to kind of the natural or to wave that people become pregnant, what are some other options are passed to motherhood that you may be help your clients explore? Well, you know, there is assistant reproductive technologies is called a RT, and I work with so many couples and some single people. They're called choice parent who are really using these methods to. To grow their families and air tea or sister. Reproductive technologies is very broad. That's sort of like the umbrella, and there are lots of different ways to do it underneath that. And so some of those the most common are what we call a u. I, which is a intrauterine inflammation in. So in the ICU I process is just wind. There's a concentrated sperm that is insert there Rick into the woman's uterus and so say that is a heterosexual couple in they there lots of tests that are involved in that, and so they're still good equality in. They're still good sperm quality than that is also an option. The other option is I the f. which is in vitro fertilization in that's a process where the eggs are taking in extracted from the uterus, and then the sperm is you get a sample of that in. They are sort of mixed together in dish. To create an embryo. And then once the embryo is formed than the embryo is implanted in transferred directly into the woman. So those are some really common options that people use in their different reasons for going down that route. Now, even further down that you can do a donation, so stay, for example, women whose eggs are not viable for whatever reason they can seek to have egg donation and used their partner's sperm, or perhaps there's an issue with sperm or perhaps a single person, or you are saying sex couple, you can get sperm donation. You can also have embryo donation. So there are times when people have leftover embryos in their healthy in, they're not going to use them. They don't want him to be discarded. They will put the moat for embryo adoption in the embryo you could be state a Cup. People could choose this embryo in heavy implanted via via so there, lots of options. And I would also imagine with those options that also comes with some challenges. So can you talk about maybe some of the challenges your clients have even they've decided on that process? Yeah. I mean, I think it comes with a lot of challenges. I think specifically number one is, is it. I mean a round of Ivy of typically in general costs about twenty thousand dollars and insurance may or may not cover any fat. So there is a huge financial component. Okay. In that is not even talking about the stress in strain that it puts on a person's body to go through this process because when you're going through fertility treatments, you are taking a lot of medication to prepare your body or you're getting injections of different hormones in. So there's a lot of physical changes at your happening that are. Happening your body at one time and not just physical, but you know, hormones also impact you emotionally. So there are a lot of emotional changes in things that may feel extremely unsettling to you to your partner to your friends and family. People may not understand why you're acting a certain way or are your paving a certain way. And then in addition to that, there is a significant in this. Another piece over the exiled he really comes in is that you have to go to these appointments based around your cycle. So you can't just say, oh, I'm going to take off next Friday from work, and I'm gonna take care of all this stuff like whenever you're strike will start. So you have to be vigilant about when that's happening in they have to have an afflicts ability within your work situation to be able to attend these appointment kind of at random. You know, without a lot of notice and I think that just called his allot of stress and because there's still a lot of stigma, I'm so grateful. We're. Talking about this. There's a lot of stigma, especially within the black community around this that people are not necessarily really open about was happening for them. And so they sort of going through this process with limited amounts of support at times. And so I think it should really stressful yen. I'm glad you said that because I do think you know that there's a lot of like misinformation woody's processes involve, but also I think there can be this thought that like black women don't struggle with this, like we're going to be super fertile right mix. Mix some of those old stereotypes about with black women mar. And so you know, having even maybe admit that you're having these struggles, I think, feels like a big deal for a lot of people can't Cup clearly. And I'm so grateful that you mentioned that because I think just like culturally the messages that you know historically have been put out about like women is very hyper sexualize in very fertile. Right? So there's the sort of message that has been placed on women in the community about our ability to be fertile and then that's sort of was placed on us. But then I think within the black community there is this the sense about family, you know that that being central important. So I think a lot of times there's a lot of pressure to feel like you are extending your family, right? Like you're creating additional children, you're at your creating your own family unit. I think that's a lot of pressure in then when we're talking just culturally, there's a lot of stigma about like keeping your business to your. Itself, right? There's there's a lot of that in the black community about not telling your business, everybody in being private and superwoman, and being able to handle everything and be seen as having it all together all the time. So I just think there's a lot of different sort of nuances culturally that adds to the pressure is. Yeah. And I think I would also want to hear more about, like, I would imagine that this can be really stressful for couples, you know, like, how do you have maybe some of those difficult conversations or you know, and I knew I've seen it depicted like on TV, but I'm sure some of this is real unbound like when are we going to kinda say enough, like was going to be line, you know, I'm curious about like some of those conversations in how you might be able to broach those kinds of topics that is such a like pertinent question that comes up a lot, and I have seen it in all types of couples and heterosexual couples in same sex couples of like, when is enough enough. And a lot of times one person is really pushing to keep going in. A person is like, I'm like, this has to stop and tends to be the partner that is not undergoing the physical treatment. That wants it to stop. It's very interesting in. It's almost like for one of the partner from in my experience is mostly like they have gone through all of this, their bodies in they just feel like they wanted to be worth something. They want there to be heaven outcome. And so I think is really difficult because if feels really hard to be on the opposite end of spectrum with someone, your partner where you're trying to grow your family in a complete you sort of at is in often times what I current couples to do is to be honest with what they're experiencing, what they're feeling, even if they are afraid of hurting other person's feelings. Because a lot of times I will get the sense that one person wants to stop and other person doesn't in his just sort of showing up in their attitude versus just saying directly in. So I encourage number one, I encourage couples for have. Open on his dialogue even when his difficult in his heart. The second thing I really think is important to think about with that is really questioning why you wanna stop or why you wanna keep going like really asking yourself. What is motivating me to keep going is this idea that like I'm only a woman if I have a child is this idea that our family is only valid if we have children, is it that we've already spent this much money, so we can't stop now like what is really motivating you to continue and then see, do you really believe that? 'cause a lot of times we just keep going based off with these stories that we have in our minds that we've just accepted as true, but we haven't evaluated and really understanding like is this message that you get from society or something that's coming from you internally? And then also asking yourself the same question of you're the person that wants to stop like. This year is this just about money is painful for me to see Mark partner going through this, and I just feel completely helpless. So really evaluate me. Things may not necessarily just give you a clear understanding of what decision you wanna make, but it can help you be able to have a conversation in a constructive way. Those are some great tubes Drako and I do you know a lot of that could be helpful even for discussing other kinds of things, especially the part about holding onto these stories. And we don't even know one where they came from are widely or still believing it, you know, so really evaluating it to see if it is true for you. I think it'd be helpful in a lot of different situations. Yeah, absolutely. You've already mentioned some of the expense that may be related to, you know, kind of undergoing. So maybe he's procedures and stuff. But I'm wondering also just because I do feel like we are seeing more in pop culture, especially around like women freezing their eggs in jobs or offering this as a. As a benefit in some cases, what other things should people be thinking about besides like the costs related to it in terms of like, you know, would they may be kind of signing up for? Yeah, you know, and I'm grateful that you said I wanna go back to because I didn't even mentioned just asional carriers or or Siragusa. Oh yeah. Okay, good. I didn't even mention that, but some of the other things like you're mentioning, sort of freezing your eggs and things like that. People are even like men are even choosing to Bank their arm sometimes in his call for Tilleke survey shit. And I think you know, when you start to think about that kind of thing for yourself is like, especially if you are a single person or you feel like you're not unnaturally in the place where you want to start your family with having children, then I think you need to think about finances. We talked about that but also thinking about it from a moral sort of spiritual standpoint. Right? How do you really feel about all of this? I think that's a lot of conflict that some people really have. What do you really think about life in where it begins in reproduction in what does it mean to have your eggs stored or what is it means have embryos stored? I think these are really tough questions that I don't think people really think about necessarily in there in the process. They start to feel discomfort because they haven't wrestled with some of these realities of that. This is a medical process. And so it really sometimes books up against people's religious spiritual or moral believes in. So really thinking about that in and where where you fall with that, how you align with that before you get into the process so that you can make a clear decision for yourself? Because again, you might start to feel bullied into making a choice that you don't really feel comfortable with because you've already spent so much money or you've already done one thing or another. So those are some of the things that is your question. Yeah, I don't hate it doesn't. I have never heard that aspect brought algae, I so I'm glad you highlighted it because I do think you know, people may have some kinds of feelings about that. But again, you don't ever hear that specific piece of the of the puzzle really highlighted. You just hear like, oh, you're getting close to thirty five. So if you're gonna wanna have kids, you better go. Other options, right? Yeah. So I don't know that we always get a full picture of everything this should be considered when you're making that decision. Yeah, and I think people don't realize that they may have those feelings in almost one of those things like until they start getting into the process I've had so many clients come in almost whisper say, oh my gosh, this just kind of feels a natural to me, you know, and I'm like, okay, let's talk about that. They didn't even really think about that beforehand. And so I think wrestling with that is really important in not only that, but also really identifying like your support, right? Like you had to be careful about who you share things with because not everyone is going to be able to support you because we all have our own stuff. We all have our own views and opinions about things, but really being able to identify people who are support people for you in really be able to sort of talk through a wrestler through some of these things, you may not necessary. Think about especially like single choice parents as we called him like think about the impact it may have on a future relationship like you haven't met that person yet, so you don't know how they may feel about if you go ahead and. Preserve your eggs or some people even go and get donors and make embryos in store them like you just never know how people might feel about that in. Are you okay with that? And that's what is all about. It's about individually really thinking through these things and deciding for yourself what you're okay with. So when I do want to add in, like we were talking about this using this derogate to carry a child, what are some of the kind of special precautions things we wanna think through around that. I mean, I think this one is really different because they're different ways to do that in different reasons why you do it, but this is you're bringing in a whole other person into your process of having this baby. Right? And there's a lot of control that you're giving up when someone else's is cure your child. Right? So I think there there's just a lot of different pieces of that, so you can use a Syria or just a carrier. With your own eggs in your partner, sperm, or your own eggs and donor sperm, or a donor, embryo all sorts of ways that that happens in read as why you may choose to do that. But you know, with any carrier that you use, they do have to have a full psychological evaluation. So I think is really significant and important to do that a. think they're also really thoughtful about who this person is whether you go through agency or whether or not you use a friend or someone offers to do it for you, I think, is really important to really think about the proximity of this person in your life. And I will tell you that some times the proximity may be a sibling or something like that, that works beautifully. Other times that adds complications because sometimes, especially if someone is asked to be a just a national carriers surrogate, they may. Feel pressure to say, yes, just based off the relationship, it may not really have wanted to it. So that also can be some pressure which hopefully that would come out in a psychological evaluation. But you also have to have a counseling session with their call, the intended parents. These are the people who will be taking the baby home with them and the just carrier president. And a lot of times people are just so excited in want the process to go smoothly that they don't want to press. They feel like the person is carrying their baby so they can, you know, just whatever they can do to make it easier for them. They're going to do that. And so they not really fully forthcoming with like, yeah, I really do want to come to all of the doctors appointments or. Yes, I really would prefer for you to stay away from caffeine. And yes, I really would. You know, I would really appreciate it. If you travel to a country that has go right now, or I would really appreciate it. If you give me a call before you went out of town, like. Just being hunt is with what you would really hope in which you really expect about the process because otherwise resentment can start to Bill as a relationship goes on with that. Makes sense. Yeah, absolutely. Seems like there would be a lot of communication that we need to happen. Yeah, there are a lot of questions and just and then there's the financial aspect of it of like oftentimes a carrier or Syria is financially compensated, especially if it comes through an agency. So just making sure that you don't feel taken advantage of, but making sure that people feel compensated, they're not feeling taking a job as a carrier or Siragusa. And so it's just it's a lot of dynamics that happens in a personally, and there are a lot of humor, wonderful relationships that come through that, but I just think you have to be extremely intentional, extremely intentional in really communicative in always checking in to make sure that you stay on. The same page. So I know that you do these evaluations, correct? Yes, I do. What kinds of things are you looking for to determine whether somebody is like a good candidate to be arrogant or just carry? I mean, I think you know, it's a full process. They come in, they fill out a lot of questionnaires, especially they're going through agencies so they fill out a lot of information about themselves. You know, their likes, dislikes air background history, and I think the couples then go through and sort of look at all that information in try to mesh instills with sort of personality wise. I'm so I think a lot of that is taken care of by the agencies before they even come to me when they come to me, I really wanna do all like sort of thorough clinical interview just really getting a sense of somebody's really their ability to really consent to this process because it it really is they're putting their health at risk in some ways, you know, and their body in. Everything. So making sure that they really have a rule awareness and understanding about what it is they're signing up for. So their ability to be able to fully consent to this process. You also wanna see somebody that wants to do it not just for financial situation. There has to be some altruism in it. Otherwise I start to feel resentful pretty quickly. So I think there's a piece of that that really wants to really want to think about. I really look at ability of their lives, their position with children, how many children have had how those pregnancies go out of those deliveries go, do they plan to have anymore children because you really wanna be thoughtful about what if something happens in your no longer able to have children like, how's that going to impact you and your own fertility history looking at their mental health history, you know, really wanting to make sure they're stable in able to sort of deal with somebody motions stress that not only comes from carrying a child. To term, but in dealing with a very visual type in different relationships. So looking at their mental health history and then also trauma background, anything that may get regard through this process is important to really make sure that they were through that that they have a wear doesn't have support in their lives to help them individually. Then I also give them a personality assessment inventory. A PI just also sort of having to objective measure to see if there's any any mental health or personality things that I should really be aware of yet. So definitely sounds like a very thorough process, the valuation piece of it. Yeah, it is. It's pretty thorough, but you know, you still can't predict exactly what's going to happen. Of course, of course. So drink a, it feels like a common theme that I have heard out of much of which you says day is like really helping to slow down the process as I can imagine, you know, especially if you haven't done this evaluate. Nation of like, why am I doing this lying and begin to feel like a finish line, right? Like that. This is this thing I'm trying to achieve in just gotta keep running without really figuring out, like you said, why am I doing this? You know, I really committed to going this for, you know, was going to be kind like the when I call it quits kind of thing. So it sounds like there's a lot of like just slowing down the process and really helping people to think through their decisions than you do with your client's idea and actually goes against what they really want a lot of times. Here's a lot of pressure like, well, I'm gonna get in by this 'cause everything is about your cycle. So I'm going to get him by this cycle than I have to do it by this date. You know, there's a lot of any to hurry up because I get all of this stuff done or there's around of tests that they've done in with the reproductive endocrinologist, which is the physicians that they're working with. Those tests are only good for a certain period of time. So if it doesn't work within a certain time, they have to redo the test. So there's a lot of pressure to move quickly through the process. In. So I think it's almost really difficult for them when I'm trying to slow them down a little bit. Yeah. I mean, it feels like it, but it's also very needed because of other that you've identified. Absolutely, absolutely. You know. And then I think too, I think we can't talk about this without talking about laws. You know, lots of miscarriages, lots of loss. I know you've had a podcast recently about miscarriage in, you know, surviving that. And I think that also as a lot to the pressure, you know, people have experienced like maybe even positive pregnancy tests and then losing the child, or they had failed IBF attempts, you know, in the past just trying to get it to work as soon as possible. Right? Like they feel this pressure in. So I think that plays a part in things -iety of it as well. Absolutely. I'm glad you brought that up. So I know something that I've loved that I've seen you do before is really helping people to kinda develop strategies to be happy with the life they have while the building towards the live, they liked. Wondering if you could share some chips for people who are, you know, maybe in this phase or thinking about, you know, starting treatments and things for how they can kind of, you know be okay right now? Yes. And this is important for our couples out there too, because a lot of the relationship issues concerns that, no, we talked about like when one person wants to stop and other person doesn't, but a lotta times it's like this becomes the third person in relationship, right? Like this, be trying to have a baby becomes the third wheel in the relationship is like everything that you do or talk about is all about this. So I really courage couples to create their book lists, and that's like things they really wanna do things, new places, things they want to try. You know, just to really, really engage in their lives outside of having a child, right? Like or cause. Another thing that we haven't talked about is secondary infertility, which is also something. Really painful for a lot of people so it they may have one child was still experiencing secondary infertility, not being able to carry a baby to term or conceive after heavy bible pregnancy previously in so it becomes the third person in the relationship. And so really sort of giving themselves a focus other than trying to have a baby is really helpful. And then I think you do that with your in a relationship or not. I think even a single person you can do that just really fully engage in your life thinking about what are some things that I really just want to try, you know, or places I wanna go. So that's one thing. And then I keep coming back to mindfulness and staying in the prison. One of my other passions in love is yoga recently completed my yoga teacher training and have been weaving into my practice more and more in that is really helping people really sort of connect to there. Their bodies and what their bodies do for them. Right? Because a lot of Tilleke is like, oh, my body is failing me, you know, is not doing what is supposed to be doing, but really sort of the strength that your body provide for you every day, this walking you around and allowing you to eat food and allowing you to see things enjoyed smell, things that you really enjoy. And so really helping people to connect into their bodies in ground in the present moment and also into the gifts of their bodies in enjoy their lives. You know, in what their bodies can do for them is something that I also really try to work with clients about and even and this is really hard to people, but I sometimes encourage people to even write thank you letter to their bodies for all the ways that it has supported him throughout life because I think there is a lot of attention on the ways that the body is failing them to. There's not a lot of attention on the ways in which your body support. You and I think that they're likely could be even a disconnect between like you and your body after like maybe going through so many medical procedures that it also. Yeah, like a foreign kind of thing. Right. So the minute writing might help this, you know, to even do some connection bags who this is actually where I live, this idea that I. Yeah, you also if people can't slow down the process like you know what? Like if you've been trying for a long time and you know your birthday month is coming up. Why not take that money off? Right. Like enjoy yourself. Enjoy your birthday, like give you're still sort of fragility breaks. I, I try to tell people because you know what, sometimes people, you know, joy like people spend six to sometimes ten years in this process you know in. So sometimes giving yourself breaks is, is needed. You know. Reconnect with your life and other ways. And so that's one of the other things that I talked to him about to be a good time. Just take a break, probably even giving them permission makes better. Absolutely. So what are some of the books in things that you find yourself kind of recommending over and over? You know, I think there's so much out there and so this, this is my thing there. Something out there for you for every personality for every person who like I just want the science where every person who was like open, I want the natural. You know, I wanna go into acupuncture and I wanna do this. There's something out there for you to, but to be careful because you can't get overloaded with all of the websites, all of the Instagram accounts like you can be sucked in, but then it can make you anxious about things you didn't even know could happen. Right. So it's like also being mindful of like. As I talk about these things, also being mindful of how much you're using it and giving yourself some breaks from even some of the social media. But there's some great podcasts out there. There is this tres laws, which is a really good part has is by sort of Eric Athey account. I'm not gonna be McAfee. Yeah, I think that's really good. Let girls guide to Purtill ity son, Har Eastman. That's a good podcast is out there. There is like we talked about, I think, miscarriage infertility issues. Sometimes go hand in hand for some people a lot of people. So I had a miscarriage, that's on Instagram. That's really good books about which hideous general like it starts with the in ask for just the mindfulness is. There's one called for t- com- if e r t, I see a ill him in. So that's really just mind, body, sort of self help skills for Tilleke. Head space is another great mindfulness app. There's IBM planner, which really helps you keep track of your doctor's appointment so there she's so many different things on there, but there's another thing that I wanna make sure that I mention in this. 'cause this makes me think about a different book is that sometimes people don't feel like they have permission to Scott to just say, I'm not going to do this anymore, and there's not a lot of support out there. A lot of these forms people are actively trying to get pregnant. They're mad gave, you know, and so you're not gonna find a lot of people saying, I'm just not going to do the city more, you know. And so I have seen so many people struggle in, try to find like support groups in for people who just wanna, stop, figure out how to live again, post for Tilleke issues, instill. There's a book called sweet greats and it's by Jean j. e. eight in Carter. Her in Michael Carter, it is a wife and husband team believe they're both editions and they talk about their for Tilleke journey in making the conscious choice to stop and how then live your life again, posts for Tilleke issues in post, trying and striving for that. So I think that's also a really good resource for people. And in the last one is resolve r. e. s. o. l. v. e. dot org. It's sort of like the national sort of infertility website has so much information about just the facts about what infertility is the acronyms, medical tests, all kinds of stuff. So it's a really good resource in acute connect you to lots of different support groups that happen both online in person in different regions of the United States. Perfect. Those owned like some incredible resources humor June it, yeah, in problem. So where. Can people find you online? I would imagine that people are going to want to find out. What do you do? They wanna know where. What's your website as well as any social media handles you wanna share? So my website is WWW dot women's wellness, Atlanta dot com. So that's women's w e NS wellness, Atlanta dot com. And then you can also find me on Instagram at a breathing space for women. And then I am also on Facebook at women's wellness Atlanta pool in all of that would be included in the show notes for anybody who didn't catch it. Okay. Well, thank you so much for sharing this information with us today die compete on new. It will be so helpful to people Bank you so much is so is just so fun to get to do this with you just from college to now is amazing, and I'm just so grateful for what you're doing because I know you're just helping so many people. So thanks to joy. Thank you. Thank you for sharing with us. I'm so happy doctor. Pete was able to share her expertise with us today to check out the. Resources that she shared answer, learn more about her practice, visit the show notes at therapy for black girls dot com. Slash session seventy nine, and please make sure to share your takeaways from the episode in your I g stories or on Twitter, be sure to use the hashtag TV g in session so that we can share them. If you're looking for therapists in your area, be short visit that therapist directory at therapy for black girls dot com slash directory and don't forget to check out the therapy for black girls store to grab a t shirt sweatshirt or among to show your love for the pot. Yes. You can find this at their p for black girls dot com slash shop. And if you want to continue this conversation and join a community of other sisters who listen to the podcast, join us over in the thrive tribe, which is the Facebook group for our community. You can request join at therapy for black girls. Dot com. Slash tribe, make sure you answer the three questions that are asked to gain entry big y'all so much for joining me again this week, and I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take here.

partner Dr Pete Tilleke Mike Atlanta Georgia Tila Tilleke Bank Syria Dmitry Dr Peden I Facebook Dr. Joy Xavier university of Louisiana s. t. Hardin
131. Abby Wambach (re-release)

QUEERY with Cameron Esposito

1:11:03 hr | 6 months ago

131. Abby Wambach (re-release)

"This is a show about individual experience and personal identity. There may be times when folks use identifying words or phrases. That don't feel right to you. That's part of what we're exploring here. Please listen with an open heart and as always I welcome your plate engage feedback and I encourage you to continue the conversation in your own life and with your own community welcome to Hey Queiroz Cami your according from my apartment and yes you can hear some laundry in the background rattling around my actual in-person human book tour is cancelled which means that all those pre orders were refunded and also while you are in your home For the next couple of weeks I have planned virtual events with some really amazing raiders and podcasters and etcetera so. I hope that you've been following on social media because you can jump on them on zoom. You just need the meeting. Id Oh I should have. This already pulled up. You just need the meeting. Id which is for eight zero zero one nine nine nine one six. All the information about the different events is on my instagram. And my twitter. I've got events with Teagan and Sara and Not With Teen Sarah with teagan Quinn. Her own human and also I just had one with Rebecca sugar who created Steven Universe. Some other really awesome guests planned an upcoming can join me from anywhere and virtually go on a book tour with me That's what I'm doing to try to stay sane. Also I WANNA shout out Libro Dot. Fm which is a site that you can use to order the audiobook if you prior to the audio audio book the book should come out. Oh my book should come out tomorrow by the way the twenty fourth preorder the audiobook view. Libro you can then designate your local bookstore as the recipient of that sale. I think is really important to try to keep local businesses viable during this time. So that's something that you could do for the businesses in city You can go to Libro DOT FM and choose your local bookstore But yeah you can also get my book through Amazon or affable Anywhere and it's called. Save yourself and it is out tomorrow. March twenty fourth. In the meantime we are re releasing some episodes of Query. Because our podcast to you is shutdown. This episode is a chat with my friend. Abby Wambach who is an amazing Olympian and soccer star and human being and author? And Hey shoutout to Abbey's quite glennon doyle whose new book untamed hit number one on the New York Times bestseller list. Enjoy this chat with abby end. If you can grab that book save yourself would really appreciate it. Friends Take Care Aka me here. I'm on the balcony outside my apartment. I realize wanted to add something. Cancel tour for me. Means no income for any teacher months that I currently no so I just wanted to tell you that If you have it in your heart feel like they entertained. Save yourself is also available as an audio or e book on audible books. The big guys have it Amazon. Has IT or a noble? Has It Yeah cancelled tour. Means thousands of books returned with the tickets are not sold so anything you can do by care about it or just enjoy it and I hope you like. It came feeling still no careless. Good Morning. Good morning morning morning. We're actually it's currently happening. Can you believe it on this show? I always have folks introduce themselves. Would you introduce yourself well? I might be. I guess you've ever had that. Got A text message from her manager with my own bio for this very moment a and I just WanNa make it known to your followers in your listeners that I am not reading. This is off the top of my head. I mean all right. Yeah Yeah let's go. Let's let's hear that off the cuff android. My name is abby box. You may know me from the time that I played soccer for the United States. For many years It felt like centuries Melik such a long son. Amazing career I've got a couple of gold medals I've got woke up. Tb chip on. I've written a couple books now. One is coming out in April. Check it out. It's a wolf pack But I think the thing that I'm most proud of is that I am what I call the wife of Glennon Doyle. My wife is amazing. And she is Really brought me back to life in a Lotta ways. So that's the thing that I kind of attach myself to the most And the thing most past. There's so many cool things to discuss in that very off the cuff intro by WanNa Start Abby by I got a chance to meet you. We did some live shows together for part of municipal. By the way you are so funny like you're brilliant but you're just you're fucked your tiny. I swear on this of course yet. Your timing is so on point and you're funny and I just feel like we see the world berries similarly so all of your jokes really landed on me. Oh thank you for saying that you know. I don't know what it's like for you. I'll say when you started talking I was like. Oh my God humiliating. I think she's about to give me a compliment like shoulders changed. I'm just saying Oh look how am I going to survive this? You did it. I did it I got to the other side. I had a lot of fun with those shows that we did. It's like it's A group of people and I was the only stand up on the on the dates that we did. And that's like a very fun situation for me to do stand up in because I feel like I actually. I actually liked that vibe standing up like getting up in the middle of Some folks were funny but maybe not telling jokes specifically because I feel like I'm like Oh man if you liked those witticisms you're gonNA love these jokes. That have been crafted over years. You know. Yeah it's like. It's a perfect platform for you to just crush exactly. That's exactly what I'm saying. Yes we actually brought a real comic and put a real comic like yourself on stage you know together tours what we actually I met doing It's one of those things that I feel really proud of a been a part of it for a few years now and my wife is actually the CO creator of it And the whole idea was to get women. However you identify yourself to be celebrated end to celebrate From different walks of life from different artists in industries as you yourself found yourself to be the the actual comedian. I try to be funny jokes. Not Landmark like yours do but it was really fun to be able to share the stage with you and to see how real comedians actually work. Well what I what I also took away was watching you know. I don't I don't know how I would imagine that for you. That is like such a monumental shift. I mean I know that in your well. I don't know I would imagine I would guess that in like your role as a leader on your team and also as somebody who is so famous for the sport that they played that you had to speak in front of people a lot but was that often live like I imagine. You know you're like you have a lot of experience on TV. You have a lot of experience in the spotlight. You have a lot of experience. Speaking in front of large groups of people live yet. You know it's interesting. That's a good question because I think what I was able to do on steeled gave me a platform off the field and I think that you probably can understand this. That what your craft is right. What you're good at what you are. Probably most known for in the world of women that we can't be one dimensional In a lot of ways and I think especially in the early stages of women sort you know. Forty years ago title nine happen and It was one of those. It's been a long period of time that women have padded continually fight. What we currently now have And so I had. I knew at a certain point in my career I had to develop Not a speaking ability but the ability to get up and to tell our story and I think that's I like camp. I like didn't I never thought of that Abbey till this moment till you just said that to me. Yeah and honestly I think that many women probably don't understand that they've been having to do seventeen different things to enable them to do their one. Crass right men don't have that same pressure or responsibility and that is part of the long fight that women are continually having to go on and these these Requirements that it takes a woman to actually be successful is outrageous so the idea for me to get up and speak might hope. Is that one day. You know that that next player. Who retires won't need to have to have that same a skill set that that covers wide range because some people are stagefright. Some people are terrified. Getting some people aren't eloquent. Some people don't like that some people just WanNa play their sport or just comedy. You know and they should do that. So it's GonNa take some more time but It's not lost knew that I was lucky. Able to get on stage and to have confidence on stage and then have a story to tell like have a message. That's that's also kind of important. Yeah I think I think about that in my own job of course because I've lived my job. You know. I know the things that I had to do. That are tangential to my my specialty And I'm and I I like it and I. I think that there are some benefits but I think you pointing out the like of course is true and I think I've probably even said this. But the pressure on women in your field to lake. Explain the job that they're doing as they do it. That's what that's what it feels like in comedy a lot it. Sometimes I get this question a little bit less but I don't know five or ten years ago there was it. Every interview would include. What's it like being a woman in comedy and so it's it is completely it's a? It's just a lot of energy to have to explain what you're doing as you're doing it. I think that's a little bit what you're talking about two and yeah and it's offering rating because you know you spend ten minutes explaining what a woman's place is in Commie or in sport and I might get your wish for the next generation of women athletes and Women Medians Is that? They don't have to waste any time explaining what it's like to be a woman in comedy or woman in sort. They're just an athlete or they're just a comedian. Like let's drop stupid pronouns that people can't understand what freaking human beings. We go through the same stuff we travel. We SACRIFICE WE TRAIN. We blood sweat and tears the exact same so That's kind of my mission over the rest of my life. I've kind of made a new career for myself trying to make sure that the people who come behind me don't struggle in the same way that I did and maybe the same ways to eat it. Was it always soccer for you? Like you're a little kid. What were you playing as a little kid? I was playing anything anything right so I was. I still am a total attention or my wife says that I'm competing with the ten year old ten year old daughter for who gets she's like you're actively trying to get more attention than the child will youngest shower in our family like. I don't know what that means but yeah I was always a great athlete and I think that gave me a sense of confidence a sense of self and an ability that everybody else had so it gave me that. I think that other element that some people have inside of them to kind of continue to pursue that that elusive dream whether playing neyland picks or whatever. Whatever it is. You'RE YOU'RE END DREAM. Gold like the best thing that could ever happen in in in the thing that you love to do and I grew up in. A huge family is the youngest So watching my brothers and sisters play sports you know. I just kind of always had this knowing like I'm going to be able to do that a little bit better than them are. They athletic like today today today. Have Sport Sport Kerr even a even in like high school college sort of thing today. Play sports my sister back actually went to Harvard Basketball Harvard She was one of the number one three point shooters in the country at one point college. that was a very big claim to fame in my family until of course. I went to college in started winning National Championships in my other sister. She offer Xavier University. Oh that's where we went and met no way. No real yeah. My parents went to savoring mother. Have they ever been? What is it called Not Six flags isn't success. Oh Cedar Point I dunno naming places that are in Ohio. I have no. It was like it was a a an amusement park. That had this really crazy. Big Kings Island. Oh sure guess. They've been to kings island. Yeah I went there when I visited my sisters all I remember about the ad came from really athletic family. My brothers played sports all through high school and then kind of went for my dad wants college and never really pursued you on that so I was lucky I was lucky to be involved in a family that was very sports centric and valued for Given that I ended up doing it as a profession. Yeah what about your parents did they? Did they have some natural athleticism or any? I mean I'm imagining like what you would you tell me. Those facts The context that that's giving me that you weren't even like the first woman in your family to have to play college level. That's I mean that's extremely unusual and then especially like in the time when you and I were growing up 'cause like now like I mean this is still true now and it was more true than and this is not a huge gap between now and then in terms of time. But my dad was dad was a super athlete He was really quick fast. I think attracts ends. He football and wrestled but after high school went to go work for his father My my great grandfather and grandfather had like a a a farm San a little farm stand and then it turned into a farm so My Dad took over that business and never got to kind of see. The fruits of his Labor he lived quite vicariously through his daughters which which is so evident in the way that all might my sister Beth and Laura myself were very independent. And we're very strong in. My Dad will take complete credit for that but I have to on us in. Give most of the credit to my mom. You know being a a wife back in the gosh you know back in the late sixties early seventies Shoes a stay at home. Mom raised and raised US Catholic. So she had. She had a unique set of value systems in place and I think one thing that she really broke three from wanted us to break free from. Is this whole idea. That we needed to be reliant on a man Too Happy You know and I think that was something. All of us really took seriously. Mom always told me. Don't you need to make your own money and you need to put yourself friends a position where not serving. Only somebody else Yourself so I learned those real values and I think my sister's Eldest sisters doctor and now actually doesn't practice any. Martin mother of six children and then my next Laura she's she's a teacher so I think my parents did a really good job of raising us and they are not without salt. You know I mean God love them. They did the very very best that they could But I think you know they they really did put inside of US girls Idea of value system our independence not really has been with me throughout my life. Do you know where your mom got the idea like I think about you know her telling you to make your own money or something like that. That's like a radical concept. Yeah she got. Ill Nicholson piss money. Fair Enough Yeah. That's that's very good Causing effects as hard as he did right you can go to work in the morning all. She had seven children to to deal with a lot of a lot of people out there with Sushi work ten times harder because he was dealing little humans running around making a mess of everything so I think that I think that anger probably is a huge marker for her that allows her to to make decisions and allow her to treat us in deterrent dozen. Guide us in kind of a like. Put it in your words rockaway Well this is all like I I mean I can. I can really two ton of the stuff that you're saying you know. I was raised Catholic. my dad. My Dad always wanted to be a singer and then you know he's a lawyer so it's definitely there was a time when I lived in Chicago. And that's where he lives when I used to set up shows where my little sister's also singer and my family would I would throw these like Italian. Themed shows where my family would be backup singers for me. as a and by the way just so you know they love this job and it is very it's a very specific thing Having you know in my case I'll say having like my dad made all these choices to work hard to like further our social standing in like send me to private school things like that like semi to Catholic school to he worked his ass off to like shoveling asphalt put himself through law school so that he could send me to Catholic school which like honestly pretty sure that wasn't worth it And then you know so that then I could like turn around and like live the dream that he never got to live. I mean there's a lot of I have a lot of feelings about this a lot like there so there was so much loss along the way them trying to do right by US. But we have to remember. This is something I have continually come back to you in especially with my relationship with my parents and my mom you know. It wasn't easy coming out to them. It wasn't easy getting them to understand that I was going to do what I wanted to do. Whether or not they believed to be sin or whatever it was like I always have to keep reminding myself that our parents are good people and they were they were doing what they thought was best at that time because we have to remind ourselves at like. It's easy like hindsight is twenty. Twenty right in easy to look back on the history of our lives in all the things that went wrong and point blamed where parents were putting these crazy positions but at the time they were really truly feeling and thinking that That it was the best decision for us now. Could they could go back and cheese things now. Knowing who turned into of course I think that they probably would make different choices but they were assuming the time that we were going to turn into what would be quote unquote your average normal human being right and I think that that is really important for parents out there when they're making certain decisions about how to guide their children who lives is. You always have to remember that your kid could be However small percent it could your kid could be trans- your kid could be by. Your kid could be a homosexual whatever. It is whatever remarks you have to remember as possible so you never want to have to have your children unlearn stuff that you force them to learn as a child. Yeah that's real. I mean when did when when did you did that happen for you. When did you come out here? Folks just General Age Range. I was twenty two told my mom when I took her to a Mexican restaurant because I felt like I gotta do this in public for some reason. Oh I did it the Nordstrom cafe but it wasn't my my mom asked me but anyway. Yes Raboteau Norstrom cafe tuna sandwiches. Keep going on I you know and and I came out with this in the most strong way like me a little bit like I'm just like my personality is like I am basically all or nothing so I wasn't going to late whimper into the conversation I didn't want her to have any reason to doubt what I was saying so I basically said to her mom to tell you something I am a lesbian so you just the strongest word that you can use that makes it you know undeniable to here and she she. She did her very best. At the circumstances I think my mom has had known for a long time But her belief system made it harder for her to hear those words right so she told me a few times like no. You're not no you're not no you're not and you know ten years later. I had to come out again and remind her. I still am lesbian. Doma it was kind of our our our little secret that we didn't share with the rest of the family although I told my brothers and sisters Yeah cool. We've known forever you know so. Yeah that was that was when I was twenty two and then I think maybe when I was twenty nine seven or eight years later. Add to remind her that this was still the case had not change and this was my less when twenty two. What was going on in your in the rest of your life at that. Time like I'm trying to time stamp like were you out of What was what was going on. You just left to enter into the Women's professional soccer league was the it was then called the w essay and there's been a few integration since two thousand three is when I started to get more In invitation supply the national team in two thousand four. Two thousand three two thousand four mostly a main stay on the national team so once the national team stuff started to happen than it was real easy to sweep my sexuality under the rug and not talk about it Because I had this other massive focal point that I continue to relate with my parents around Wow that's really interesting. Yeah I mean if I were to go back in time I would do things differently because you know that was that was also not wanting to actually deal with the relationship that I was trying to cultivate with my parents in. So it's taken you know fifteen or twenty years actually have these hard conversations And you know being brought up Catholic. I was an I've I've just figured this out My struggle was. I felt like at the time I was having to decide between my mom and God or myself And you know up until six months ago. I'm almost thirty nine up until six months ago. I had this revelation like Oh actually God is not separate than me and Got Us not separate? The my mom and God is not church right so I had been feeling like this. This guilt Catholic Hill that were all natives feared an NCO less than shame about about myself. An average is getting really mixed up so. I'm glad that I've heard it's actually allowed. Have a little bit of dealing with my relationship with my mom because she's getting older. I don't WanNa have things that are outside so no for all of your listeners. Having the hard conversations now Will first of all saved conversation for you. Know you're just saving the conversation for later or or worse case scenario won't ever have it You Know God knows what happens after that. So have the hard conversations with your parents or your family now Get them to to see you. Get what you want to say Because you're going to have to stay at eventually get it over with. Yeah I mean as a particular set of circumstances though that to what you're talking about I was a little younger. I was But not much is nineteen but a lot of things were different between what you're describing in my situation. I was still in college. That my folks were helping me pay for and It was Catholic college and so I was still getting messaging. They're on like you. Couldn't you come out you could be kicked out of school So like for me that actually to your point It did sort of force me to have well. I I'll say I'll say this. Sometimes it's just like straight up not safe to have some of these conversations. You're talking about when it's safe yet but you're just making a choice or whatever and I get that. I think because of the specifics of what I'm talking about I did have to have those conversations like very into very Focused way just because Like I wasn't it didn't have any I didn't have this other thing going on or like a job or something else that was pulling me in a different direction. I had to dislike kind of work. It out with them. Over from like nineteen to twenty five is renewing old environment to you. Because you were being. You're asking them for their resources to go to to this crazy college. That's not allowing you to actually be yourself because of their belief system so it's it and I understand every situation very different. Obviously on safety is the number one priority but yeah That's our end I'm glad that you had those conversations. You know yeah I mean I have. I have a lot of compassion for you because like the pressure cooker of all of that. Kind of just. You know you're right like it did like. By the time I was twenty five. I was living back in Chicago and dating a woman that they liked and it was just like okay now we you have to get over this now look it was just it was so it was such a finite amount of time because it was so big and I'm imagining like in your case Yeah that's that's a long time to sort of carry that That like dance that you're doing where because I certainly did that during that time there was a you know. Went home for Thanksgiving and didn't bring my partner because or like brought somebody in. She was my friend like I did that all but it was all just very condensed and I certainly know how stressful that is to try to figure out like sort of who can hear what about your life like who in your life can hear what things about your life that. Komo compartmentalization is It's it's so isolating and And I I just have a lot of compassion for what. I'm assuming you must have been going through at that time. Which is a lot of a lot of like redirecting towards a sucker whatever or that also added a layer of pressure to the whole thing. Because I started to get a little bit more famous my name was a little bit more out there. And so you know my mom at one point just beg me not to come out publicly You know and it's this whole idea of perception. And the way that the outside world perceives your family in the way that I was raised. And how that's GonNa reflect on my parents so I have to hashing for my mom. Also but here's the thing you know it became this pressure cooker and that kind of led me down really difficult path towards the end of my career and a lot of things were kind of coming to a head for me and I was really struggling with alcohol In pills and and so that was the other side of it where I was placating and wanting my mom's security and acceptance while all the while not listening to my own needs And so I went the opposite direction in started making bad choices for my personalized for my personal body And so I think that there is. There has to be the balance of an protected. The there has to be protection in place for you in your cells. That is is long-term. Right as soon as I started to struggle. You know as soon as I actually started struggling and then you know when when it should actually hit the fan I got a Dui like my life changed as I got sober. And I was able to actually have these hard conversations on I was actually able to create boundaries and create a life for myself that felt really good because of my gang. S Not in spite and I think that I needed to get to that point unfortunately I needed to get so low that I just had nothing else but but the requirement of accepting who. I was and accepting of what a life I wanted and then go out and create it so you know as much as I would love to sit here and blame my parents for every little thing that ever went wrong in my life like I am here now. I'm because of them. Some of that struggle though it was hard and though it was very real has allowed me to get stronger in ways that I wouldn't have right and so it's not. It's not all for not right like I understand to everybody's stories different in everybody's Kane is different everybody's reaction to it is different. But for me I want to be the narrator of my story and in order to take control of all the aspects of it and I don't Wanna I don't WanNA blame I don't want to give out any of the power that have been able to curate for myself create for myself so I wanNA take that on myself and he. The strongest daycare can be yes. Be the strongest. Even be one thing that I feel like so often I mean even still now the messaging certainly when I was coming out even still now the messaging of Lake. But why do you have to be out? Or why'd you have to identify Lake you're wearing button downs all the time as like something that's queer or like. Why do you have to tell me about your life? You know like that kind of thing. I still feel like I hear that. I feel like I've heard that the entire time relates to you trying to bottle things up and it I it is. The premise is flawed. Because it's it's not A choice you know. I don't feel like it's a choice not sexuality. I'm specifically talking about whether or not to tell people what's real in your life. I feel like we still kind of talk about that. As if it's like you know Could sh should you come out or should you identify the things in your life that are part of Queer culture or should you Talk about what you like about being gay or anything like that and you know that's a lot coming from like a it's to keep us afraid. Keep US feeling marginalized often but I think another part of it is just like for a long time. I also think we're folks have have accepted that we could do this or that and I. I just feel like for long term health. It's not so much choice and that doesn't mean like you know everyone in your life has to know at this certain time in this certain way It just means that that like I. I don't I don't think it's the best idea for anybody to walk through their life being unknown by the people that they love our expression. I think you're talking about self expression right. And what makes comfortable is when they are able to express themselves in this little box that they live in or insular community that they live in and they see somebody lives across the street. Looks like them talk like them. You drive the same car who their kids go to the same school that is patriarchal system. That has been set up for all the rest of us. People to live by his. Like unknown codes of conduct be silent. Rules that we've been operating under and I think for the most part right people. Just do it like you ride. You drive your car. Rates other road is law. It's understood and we have these invisible codes of conduct culture right that either. Keep us feeling safe or unsafe. And I think that self expression is independent of each other. Every single person has a different reason or desire or way to create Who they are as an identity as a human as a Stanley as its nudity as a country. And what the Patriarch. He wants us to do right. It is they need to keep the people that they are governing and they are in power over afraid of each other so they've created. These boxes needs labels that make it easier to quote unquote understand each other and to connect to each other but actually what they are beers to keep us afraid of each other and to keep us apart because the number one thing for power fewer right. White Man. You're in power to stay in power to keep the people that they are in power over afraid of each other and I think that that's where this whole conversation gets an Fascinating second of all it's not easy An and by the way. There's so many marginalized groups that are being named. You're afraid of each other right. Oh I'm a part of this church so I can't be friends with any any homosexuals or I'm a part of this church I can't And and so my point being is off expression is such a beautiful thing but the culture that we live in is the thing that inhibits people from expressing way off because we might not have actual English words to define who want to deem is because we're multitudes right and so my wife's whether or not we talk about this all the time like we are. We ARE FLUID. Like you know we look at the political system right now and it's gross like obviously. I am not anywhere near pub inside but you actually look at what. Democrats stand for right now. That doesn't feel very enticing. Though I still going to vote for them it just feel ropes and so I've been made to see her not attaching myself to Democratic Party. Each has then all of my rights will go out the window but true this we have to get a little bit more comfortable in attaching ourselves to things that are not finite that are not binary because as we evolve as a species. You're going to find out none of that. Shit fucking matters were has and it never will. It's just a it's a bullshit concept that has been made up by white men to keep the rest of US check. Many conventional deodorants contain aluminum. Which forms of plugging your sweat glands to keep you from sweating? That's the ad copy and that is disgusting to say so if that's actually happening to you if there's a plug in your sweat glands. I've got great news. Native Deodorant is made without aluminum or aluminium. If you're in London specifically I think that's true across the UK. See you can feel better about what you're putting on your body while smelling and feeling fresh all day long no plugs dude of Deodorant is formulated without parabens or Talq. 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Jordan who's in the booth got burgum on stage says very pleasing scent furry delicious not like like like smelling the legislative piece of sage. But not you don't eat it. Even though it's aluminum free you get twenty percents off your first purchase by visiting native Deodorant Dot Com and then use the Promo Code Query during checkout native Karen Dot Com and use the code to query twenty percent off your first purchase straight up. I really do believe that. Aluminum and Deodorant needs to go. Bye Bye so go ahead and sort that out by using. Do you love query so much. You want a t-shirt or guess what all you gotTa do over to todd. Swag Dot com slash query in get. Hey Queiroz available as extra small to xl friends put that Queiroz T. on your body's pod Swag Dot com slash query if there's something interfering with your happiness or preventing you from achieving your goals. Better help online. Counseling can help better. Hope offers licensed professional counselors who are specialized in issues such as depression anxiety relationships trauma anger family conflicts. Lgbt matters grief self esteem and more connect with your professional counselor a safe and private online environment and get help at your own time at your own pace. Anything shares confidential. It's convenient because you can schedule a secure video phone sessions as well as chat and text with your therapist if for some reason. You're not happy with your counselor. You can request a new one at any time for no additional charge. Best of all. It's a truly affordable option. Our listeners get ten percent off your first month but the Discount Code Query so when it get started today go to better hope dot com slash query simply followed a questionnaire. Help them assess your needs and get matched with a counselor. You'll love that's better. Help Dot com slash query. Okay can I ask you a follow up question? That's more personal on what you're talking about so I think the way that you present you know the haircut that you have in like the clothes that you wear For small you look awesome. Thank you Second of all you know it's it's still Osceola it's no it's still Like your vibe of I mean what are you? What would you call your haircut? It's like Chen shaved on the sides than there is like a there's with a skunk long. Yeah Yeah You know like that's still an unusual look and it also is like there's people that have been claiming. Erlich wearing or trying on masculinity whatever words WE WANNA use And I'm wondering if that's like always been comfortable for you like having the haircut that you have or like wearing a suit to an awards show or Like a motorcycle jacket. When you're on in front of folks that always been something that felt. Interestingly enough I think that I I'll be super honest like it wasn't I didn't start doing it until I. I actually comfortable in my skin in what that means for me is a stop trying to please people on me outside in started trying to please myself Which is a very foreign concept for a lot of women out there. He had tried to match your insides. The way that you look on the outside is a foreign concept for human beings right. They see somebody wearing what they think they should be wearing an and they tried to replicate it right so so. That's an extra colonel motivator. So I've been doing a lot of work especially over the last. I guess must be nine to ten years Because you know being the Captain Olympic national team for many years I also felt a massive responsibility to not be quote. Unquote stereotypical lesbian. I was GONNA ask amber. What your Harry's to look like you know like the Like the wrap up tape or whatever the heck that's called you like wearing your hair that's like a very Soccer thing and also is like I mean I you know. Of course I play sports too. I didn't play sports. The to the sense that you did the messaging that I got was like okay. Play sports like don't be gay about it and I can't imagine that that stopped as you continue to have more eyeballs on you like if I was getting that messaging in high school. I can't imagine that like suddenly that gets less. I would imagine that would get more well with me as it relates more eyeballs more fame were more. Responsibility Capcom. I just didn't want the rest of the world to think that our entire team was gay. Yeah that was something because I was. I knew that there are millions of kids out there who didn't identify in the same way I did. That would look at the team and see the leading goalscorer needed most famous player on the team and not be able to see themselves in me right. I got that but then you know Megan or Pino came on the scene and all these other young kids who dislike. Didn't really care as much as I did about pleasing everybody else out there And we had enough players that are making name for themselves and as soon as I actually started to accept who I was inside and not trying to please the people on the outside I started to wear whatever the hell I wanted to wear You know living in La for seven years helped with that because I was just in board shorts and sandals the whole time But then you know now my style. Whatever you WANNA call. It has evolved in a way that events for businesses in corporate corporate world in their business. This is the business attire situation. Now like all right. Well I'M GONNA WANNA wear. I wear a nice cool pair of shoes and a nice watch. That's not like excessively dressed up. It's I mean. Certainly there are no rules on. What is a business attire? If you're somebody who is like the kind of casual tired that you and I were. Certainly that is very difficult to figure out difficult to find. You have to. You know the the ideal situation is like that you have the suit made and then like how expensive is that? And how time consuming and all these things super complicated I also. I just want to say that just on the point just on that very small point that you made your thinking like. I don't want everybody to think I don't want people to think everybody on the team is is gay but the the opposite side of that is that we are fine with the idea that that people would think everybody on the team at straight. It makes me feel like I'm so poisoned. We're also poisonous in our own. Shame and guilt of stuff that you know any. Glennon is all the days trying to remind me or or or point out things that don't really ring true that are still of the old thought process of the the patriarchy. And it's like these are things. This is something that is so important. That's why I wrote. This book is because we are NAM to in bleeding. Some of the things we believe like we don't even understand that wearing wearing certain clothes as a kid for me when my mom put me in address to go to church or whatever it was she used to dress me. Intel Brits Clothing of course I wore that shit go ahead. It was absurd and add this metaphor like I felt like I was literally holding my breath till the moment. Unzip IT and get it off of my body you know And did I die? No but maybe like a little bit inside like maybe part e you swallow enough poison. You'RE GONNA get set and I think that that is our culture. I think that a way that we all interact with the outside world. You know we are all drinking in a certain amount of poisonous especially all of the little girls out there. In the messages they see about what it means to be however they identify a woman a man whatever it is you know like we try to point our kids to things that are obnoxiously pager right whether it be like a hooters commercial. We like point to a me. Say What are you guys see? And they said we see a lot of boobs and we see women trying to sell chicken wings and we're like okay water women's bodies for like they're for running and playing and thinking in studying and Mike helping each other like okay. What are they not right so like we are having an also away? Parenting was a perfect excuse to unlearn some of this shit. We've been. Wow that's amazing. I mean you know what that makes sense to me. It makes that that gives me a lot of because I read the because I read. I read the Booker and Wolfpack in You know my my thought was like first of all I was like. Yay absolutely everything. And there's like is so helpful in like right on the money and like you know and then I also and I think maybe part of this is like just because of my job. I read that book and I was like I wonder how much of this is like. I don't know if you've gotten I don't know if you think about Alexis but I often think about the work that I make. It's like literally the work I needed to see an and I didn't see it out there and then like now I'm thirty seven and I make this work in. It's like it's it's it's for you you know it's like for collect the collective view but it's like for the the sad little me and like that is it's like so much hope there because. Oh my God I've I've put myself in the position where he can do that and then I have like I also kind of like sadness and I think that's okay too. You know like sadness for that Little Cami that I'm like. Oh Man kid like I wish you know. I wish. I wish you didn't have to write this book at at the age that I am now a write this Stand UP SET BECAUSE I. I wish that this had existed for you. You know and I don't know if you felt that way at all in writing that like the orange you you become the teacher you wish you had the income the that you wish you had become the backbone that you wish you had enormous at that. That is life right. It gives us perspective that gives us a deeper wisdom and understanding of life. Widely did what we did. And you know a lot of the stuff that I write about on Wolf Pack They really are just basic rules. That we all operate like like every person every woman out there can understand the moment when they were the only woman in the right weather e at work or somewhere else in and they may have something to say the date they felt like this urge to talk but then they looked around and they're like oh I'm the only woman I'm just GonNa stay quiet right or when you finally get the promotion or you get the raise and like the only emotion that you allow yourself to feel as a woman is just grateful right like not like we need to learn that it is okay for a human being regardless of what gender. You are how you identify that when something good happens like be grateful and you also get continue demanding more leisure. What's a freaking birthday? I mean I you know I also say like for Queer folks Also we don't always have to make choices to put ourselves in places where we are in the majority like they're certainly like shows or bars or you know whatever meet up spots that you can assert coffee shop But that situation that you just described as just as much more prevalent for Queer folks because like I mean. I think we're seeing with younger generations. That like the number of people that openly identifies is shifting. But you know sometimes you're you literally are the only person not just in this room late in the office or whatever because of whatever like our geographic isolation Or you might be the only person that's like also a person of color you know or whatever. It is the the Many things that are true for you and identities that you carry that like you know might might continue to pile on recent stew shut up or whatever so I definitely think there's also a lot of clearness in what you're speaking about of course And that is why. I think this book is so revolutionary. Because it can. You can attach yourself. Any marginalized group can attach themselves to all of these these philosophies of thought because you know the end of the day like there are so many people out there that have been persecuted or have suffered because of their Their marginalisation whether it be their flatness or their their clearness or their gender or their sexual whatever it is you have been persecuted from for being person like like. I have to like sometimes actually break it down like think about person as a little bit a little bitty baby baby and like how could you mistreat this? This little baby. How can you? How can they need to this baby? How can you like? That's how that's for me. Whenever I have Reggie moments against certain people in our government I like. I don't WanNa be that anger. I don't WanNa be that ratings right so you know. I want to be given the same respect as I'm requesting from other people and I think empathy is the way through. We have to find ways to build bridges and I know for some people on their lives have taken them in many different ways suffering in pain. But I think that the only way we can go through. This is by reclaiming our power as people and giving each other the same. Kind of power individually And and it's hard building bridges honey otherwise everybody would do it in the world five. Of course I mean I think even just anger you know angers like real difficult to To figure out how to deal with because because there there are you know. There's like small anger and then there's like you know big anger. I mean I I find that myself. Sometimes I'm I'm just in this place right now where I am wondering if everybody gets to have a bridge built to them and that's just so you know that's a real honest place analysis of the place that I'm in we're like I've just really have felt in the last couple of years like I've been working to that end for a long time and now I'm like you have to. You know I have been like putting in a lot of bridge work and so like I really expect like a lot. More Bridge work on your end than that. I think you've been delivering and it's but that doesn't that doesn't You can't control other people so the brave sir. Absolutely also they cross it. But here's the thing like you also have non-negotiable like we're talking about people who cross boundaries that are not acceptable for anybody to come to your island for anybody China Bridge. You're trying to span across to any any person out there right so like your non-negotiables are your your batteries. And you hold onto them And and if somebody can make it across your bridge like more power to them for me thing. I'm certainly not like you're amazing so if like you don't WanNa Come D. and hang out with me on my island like chatter. Yeah Yeah Yeah Fair Enough. Yeah Cool Fair Enough Man. I okay this is. This is a part that I like absolutely want to ask you an. I'm just looking that we have about ten minutes left. So I'm going to redirect the in this area ready. I wonder if people ask you about this. You'll have to tell me okay. Abby like Highest goalscorer of any human ever and international play. True that is true. Yeah okay so we're like like a real like a real goat And you are in your late thirties. You've said how does your body feel. Oh Yeah so. Do people ask you first of all yet. Will they do? Actually because every person on planet Earth thinks I'm the most fit person on earth. No I feel like you used your body like you used your body hard and you're so good and you and you and it was for a long time. Yeah years and I'll give you a little bit of rundown. I retired at the end of two thousand. Fifteen and your listeners. May Not know this about me. Fitness was not my favorite so having to do all of that to stay fit and stay at the top of my game. So many years was literally and figuratively. Just exhausting. I was just so freaking over it. I didn't WanNa do another sprint. I didn't WANNA lift another wait so I didn't for two years. I became very sedentary. I gained some pounds. I will gladly admit that I scared myself in in in the in the bathroom naked a few times. Like what is that on your ass valuate? Where did you come from? And and that was something that I actually spiritually needed. Because like like I was saying earlier like this external and internal motivation and what was once an internal motivation to be the fittest strongest and fastest quickly became an external fear of not making the team and losing my position. Not Scoring many goals. So I've actually been doing over the last six months. I start working out again. Six months ago and I've been working relentlessly on trying to figure out how to internally motivate myself As opposed to this this fear this external motivator that kept me on the T for so many years And that has been really hard but my body really needed a break. I mean I have a a titanium rod in my Shin. I've broken my nose. My orbit toes countless toenails. Loss shoulder issues Tour Ligament in my knee hamstring issues. I mean countless angles brands so my body actually needed to actually govern to a little bit of a hibernation So long story short my body felt like Shit and I I let my body off the hook for a couple of years and I needed that. I really needed like that spiritual disengagement from my actual body and then six months ago I just started running literally like forrest. Gump running just like running not suffering. 'cause for thirty years as a pro athlete. You kinda get comfortable in what we call the red zone which top heart rate zone And that is the period of which your body actually starts to shut down so develop lactic acid and Your your your body down when you get into that red zone not to get too boring and scientific on you when you to the red zone. It's basically like you. WanNa kill yourself in parliament that expression because I know that there are a lot of mental health people out there but that that is essentially what you feel like you you WanNa stop everything and you no longer want to exist And so having thirty long thirty year long career in that perpetual state of always pushing your body to that Max was something that I got over really quick. So I'm just going on these long or scum runs. That's what I'm doing now while well first of all I think I mean maybe you know this but people who didn't have your experience in your career I think we're we're also dealing with the equation that you just spoke about which is like the balance between what are you doing for other people are what are you doing for you know the way you look or what are you doing four to compete in whatever arena versus like what are you doing for yourself specifically as it relates to our bodies so. I think like you've you're SP- your experiences like so specific but you're also like you know not a Weirdo and everybody else around. You could probably relate to this concept of trying to figure out You know what's the stuff that she makes you feel good and I also I also think good on you Because another thing that was happening. You're you're said you're like look in the mirror like what is that. What that was is probably like what you're body kind of should at you know because of how bodies change over time but the kind of career you had your arresting your own development you know. You're you're like freezing yourself in time. And so you know Cigarillo Encino man moment where like waking up and and everything by shing really. Yeah but you know that stuff everything. That's that's happening is like it is You're using your body like a different machine than most people do and I'm really I'm really happy for you that you took some time and space to to figure out how you wanted to use the machine that you have now. Yeah and it's a work in progress. You know like Sherwood Used to be servicing. My Body as you'll be able to go in suffer a now. I haven't made the switch that I'm not supposed to eat so many fuelling calorie straight so beaching my body that I don't require as many calories. I'm not expanding as many calories. I mean you know people wouldn't ever think about me but I really struggled with with food control in it's like oh where does this come from? Like oh the time that it wasn't. I didn't live in a chaotic experience. In my childhood was at the dinner table and so I tried to recreate that experience every single time I e and so I go completely non stop thinking always over consume in that that was fine when I was burning. Three four to five thousand calories a day but now that I'm probably bringing to two thousand dollars a day depending on if I worked out you know these are things that that I'm struggling with. So if you're struggling with three look or the way that you're consuming or or your over consuming you're you're on your phone too much like these are real life things that every person no matter how great you think. I am struggling much. Yes yes friend yes I was a big jock like I mean that's again really different results. I was actually never asked to play for the national team. Much to my surprise I mean I also wasn't good at soccer but You know I was. I was a hardcore athlete at a time. In my life where that meant that I could hide disordered eating in that space where I could Like do an equation. That isn't true for the rest of your life or not his on five thousand teams at once. You're not always a teenager. You're not always Like you don't actually always feel good eating only low fat twist cones for McDonald's So you know yeah you grow up in and you have to constantly reorient and uncover layers and I'm just glad to hear you're doing so much. Solid work. Like congratulations to you. I feel like I feel what you're doing in retirement is like it's I mean it's more than you need to be doing for like the things you've already done but for a person who's GonNa live like the rest of their life as if the rest of their life you know. I'm really happy for you that you're like doing all this work. Well one thing that actually allowed me the space to see a sober life is that my wife's took me aside known each other for ten minutes and She wrote me this email in basically an email she just said look at the world actually needs you and needs you in your highest best. Most efficient cells right and this isn't like a moral thin. It's not like you were bad now. You have to be good. It's like the world needs people like you and actually heard that for the first time like if we actually want things to change and and we want more beauty than we have to actually go out and do it you know and be it and And I that that goes into dislike. Always remember that were continually recreating ourselves every day. Every every week every month every year and it's like children like as soon as you start to get into rhythm your kids like they change like all of a sudden they're different different person in you've got like the Agile and moves so that you can serve them in the best Fossil Winston. The same grace needs to be given to each human being we're always changing and Yeah so I'm I'm still working on it and I'm sure off forever. Well that's a perfect place to leave it and I wanna just ask you before I send you back into your day. Abby Wambach to shout out a queiro. Can You Let our listeners know of a person place or thing that made you feel confident being who you are today? Actually somebody who I've I've just recently met over the last six months whose name is sandy ruled and he is an executive for verizon media I run a leadership program inside of rising media. And he is a queer fellow and somebody who is living kind of an an abnormal lace right in in our minds like in our in our like brainwash minds like gay folks. Don't make it to the C. Suite level right don't to executive level of big corporations in this beautiful man you know he has just been such an inspiration. Such a leader You Know He. He talks the talk and he walks the walk. He's brilliant and he's beautiful and he has really Not only helped me personally. But the way he walks in the world is helping all gay people everywhere and he's not that's not his mission. It's not why he's doing it it just who he is an I really. I really admire him. Look we'll think savvy so awesome talking to you thank you for making. Yeah we had a great time.

United States soccer Abby Abbey Chicago Amazon Glennon Doyle Abby Wambach twitter New York Times Jordan Libro DOT FM abby box Melik teagan Quinn Xavier University Ohio
118. Best of 2019, Part 1

QUEERY with Cameron Esposito

1:01:06 hr | 9 months ago

118. Best of 2019, Part 1

"This is a show about individual experience and personal identity. There may be times when folks use identifying words or phrases. That don't feel right to you. That's part of what we're exploring here. Please listen with an open heart and as always I welcome your plate engage feedback and I encourage you to continue the conversation in your own life and with your own community welcome to Hey Queiroz Cami here and we want to thank you. We being me Jordan are recording engineer. Matt who occasionally is nipping around in the booth helping and Sierra who does all the booking and produces this show we wanna thank you for another great year. Hey you WANNA give us also a gift will well fuck it so easy. Just go and leave us a review a five star review. That says hey I love this you got in you could you don't have just sit in caps but you have to say it loudly while you type it and we want to recap twenty nineteen of particularly stressful. You're you're in my life but a very good year for the query podcast. We've got two great episodes this week and next with some of our best hits top hits hits from this year including this week. Abby Wambach Callan Allen and Ryan O'CONNELL so please enjoy and have a great holiday date season still no no careless this. You know you spend ten minutes explaining what a woman's place is in comedy or in Sport and you know I. I wish for the next generation of women athletes in women is that they don't have to waste any time explaining what it's late. She be a woman in combination or women in sport. They're just an athlete or they're just a comedian like let's drop stupid pronouns that people people can't understand what freaking human beings. We go through the same stuff. We travel sacrifice we train. We blood sweat and tears the exact same so You you know that's kind of my mission over the rest of my life. I've kind of made a new career for myself trying to make sure that the people who come behind me don't struggle in the same way that I did and they'd be the same waste Yuda. Was it always soccer for you. Like you're a little kid. What were you playing as a little kid? I was playing anything anything anything so I was. I still am total attention for my wife says that I'm competing with the ten year old ten year Gerald daughter for who gets she's like you're actively trying to get more attention Ben. The child will youngest shower in our family. Like I don't know what that means but Bob Yeah I was always a really great athlete and I think that gave me a sense of confidence. A sense of self and an ability lead that path. Everybody else had so it gave me that. I think that other element that some people have inside of them to kind of continue to pursue that that elusive dream of whether he's playing the Olympics. Or whatever whatever it is you're you're end end Dream Gold like the best thing that could ever happen in a thing that you love to do and I grew up in a huge family. I was the youngest to seven So watching watching my brothers and sisters play sports you know. I just kind of always had this knowing. I'm going to be able to do that a little bit better than them are. They athletic today today. What did they have Even even in like you know High School College thing today play sports. My sister back actually went to Harvard. Played Basketball Harvard She was one of the number one three point shooters in the country. It's one point in college That was a very big claim to fame in my family until until of course I went to college and started winning National Championships and Saha by other sister. She Played Soccer Xavier University and met no way. Yeah no for real yeah. My parents went to the navy. I think I have they ever ever been What is it called It's not six flags isn't six five. Oh Cedar Point I dunno naming places that are in Ohio Ohio I have no. It was a a an amusement park. That had this really crazy. Big Kings island sure yes. They've been to kings island. Yeah you went there when I visited my sisters all. I remember about figure The I came from a really athletic family. My brothers played sports all through high school and then kind of went works for my dad went to college and never really pursued young so I was lucky. I was lucky to be involved in a family. That was very sports. CENTREX tricks and valued or Given that I ended up doing it as Russian. Yeah what about your parents did they did. They have have some natural athleticism or any. I mean I'm imagining like what what you telling me. Those facts the context that that's giving me is that you weren't weren't even like the first woman in your family to have to play college level. That's I mean that's extremely unusual and then especially lake in the time when you and I were growing up 'cause like now like this is still true now and it was more true then and this is not a huge gap between now and the in terms of time but my dad was. My Dad was a super athlete He was really quick fast. I think he ran track and and he played football and wrestled but after high school went to go work for his father. My my great grandfather and grandfather had I'd like a a a farm San a little farm stand and then it turned into a farm so My Dad took over that business and never got to kind of see the the fruits of his Labor so I think he lived quite vicariously through his daughters which which is so evident in the way that all love my my sister Becca Laura myself were very independent. And we're very strong in. My Dad will take credit for that but I have to be honest. Kinda give most of the credit semi mom you know being a a wife back in the back in the late sixties early seventies She's a stay at home. Mom raised raised US Catholic so she had she had a unique set of values value systems in place and I think one thing that she really broke three wanted us to break free from. Is this whole idea that we needed to be reliant on a man too happy You know and I think that was something. All of us really took seriously. My mom always told me. Don't don't you need to make your own money and you need to put yourself in a position where not serving. Only somebody else that you have to take yourself so I learned those real values. I think my sister eldest sister is a doctor and now actually doesn't practice anymore as a mother of six children and then my next Laura she's she's a teacher so I think my parents at a really good job of raising us and they are not without salt. You know I mean God love them. They did the very very best that they could But I think they they really did put inside A girl's Idea of value system our independence not really has kind of been with me throughout my life. Do you know where your mom got. The idea idea like I think about you know her telling you to make your money or something like that. That's like a radical concept. Yeah Yeah I think she was pissed having to ask me for money a fair enough. Yeah that's a that's a very good you've Causing effects as hard as he did right here we go to work in the morning and come home and she had seven children to to deal with At a lot of people out there would say. She worked ten times harder than he did because he wasn't feeling a little humans running around making a mess of everything so I think that anger probably is a huge marker for her that allows her to make decisions and allowed her to treat us and to parents. It doesn't guide us in a kind of like nerds rockaway. This is all like I I mean I can. I can relate to ton the stuff that you're saying you know I was raised Catholic My Dad my dad always wanted to be a singer and then you know he's a lawyer so it's definitely there was a time when I lived in Chicago. And that's where he lives. When I used to set up shows where my little sister's there's also singer and my family would I would throw these Like Italian themed shows where my family would come in be backup singers for me. as and by the way just sooner they love this job and you know it is like very it's a very specific acidic thing Having my case I'll say having like my dad made all these choices to work hard to like further our Social social standing in like send me to private school things like that Lake semi to Catholic school. He worked his ass off to like shoveling asphalt. Put himself through law school so that he could send me to Catholic school which like honestly pretty sure that wasn't worth it but And then you know so so then I could like turnaround like live the dream that he never got to live. I mean there's a lot of feelings about this I also oh law so much loss along the way them trying to do right by us but we have to remember this is something I have continually to newly come back to you and especially with my relationship with my parents and my mom you know. It wasn't easy coming to them. It wasn't easy getting them to understand. Understand that I was going to do what I wanted to do whether or not they believed to be sin or whatever it was like I always have to keep reminding themselves that our parents are good people and they were they were doing. What base felt was best at that time because we have after remind ourselves at like it's easy like hindsight is twenty? Twenty right it's easy to look back on. The history of the story are of our lives in point out all the things that went wrong and point blames where parents were putting us in these crazy positions but at that time they were really truly feeling rolling and digging that That it was the best decision for us now could they if they could go back and cheese now knowing who turned into of course I I think that they probably would make different choices but they were assuming at the time that we were going to turn into what would be quote your average normal human being right and And I think that that was really important for parents out there when they're making decisions about how to guide their children their lives is you always have to remember member at your kid could be or However small percent could your kid could be trans- Kid could be by kid could be a homosexual. Whatever it is whatever marks on us we have to remember as possible C.? Never want to have your children. UNLEARN stuff you force them to learn as child. Yeah that's real. I mean when did when when did you when did did that happen for you. When did you come up here? Folks just General Age Range. I was twenty two told my mom when I took her to a Mexican restaurant because excelled like I gotTa do this in public for some reason. Oh I did it the Nordstrom cafe but it wasn't my my mom asked me but anyway yes. Rabbi the Nordstrom Cafe Tuna sandwiches sandwiches. Keep going I you know and and I came out with this in the most strong way. You know me a little bit like I'm just like my personality is like I am basically all or nothing so I wasn't going to late winter into the conversation I didn't want her to have any reason to doubt what I was saying so I basically said to her mom you to tell you something. I am a lesbian. So you just the strongest longest word that you can use that makes it you know undeniable to here and she of course you know she she. We did our very best. I'm at the circumstances. I think my mom has had known for a long time But her belief system made it harder for me to hear those words right so she told me a few times like no. You're not no you're not. No you're not and you know ten years later. I had to come out again and remind her I still have Malaysian. You know Ma and it was kind of our our little secret that we didn't inch share with the rest of the family. Although I told my brothers and sisters and they're like yeah cool we've known forever you know so. Yeah that was that was when I was twenty two then I think maybe when I was twenty nine seven or eight years later. Add to remind her that this it was still the case had not changed. This was my less when twenty two. What was going on in your in the rest of your life at that time like Alex? I'm trying to time stamp like were you out of hot. What was what was going on? You just left all to enter turn to the upper women's professional soccer league was the it was then called the Wfan and there's been a few ration- since In two thousand three is when I started to get more invitations. Supply the national team and two dozen four two thousand three two thousand four hundred mostly a main stay on the national team so once the national team stuff started to happen than it was real easy to sweep on my sexuality under the rugged not talk about it Because I had this other massive focal point that I could relate with my parents around On wow that's really interesting. Yeah I mean if I were to go back in time I would do things differently because you know that was that was also not wanting wanting to actually deal with the relationship that I was trying to cultivate with my parents in. So it's taken you know fifteen or twenty years actually have hard conversations And you know being brought up Catholic. I was an I've I've just figured this out My struggle was I I felt like at the time I was having to decide between my mom and God or myself And you know up until six months ago. I'm almost thirty nine so until six months ago. I had this revelation like Oh actually God is not separate the knee and and Got Us not separate. Mom and God is not church right so I had been feeling like this. This is Gil the Catholic guilt that we're all feared in less than a shame Abou- about myself and I was getting really mixed up so I'm glad that that happen. It's actually allowed allowed. Have a little bit of healing with my relationship with my mom because she's getting older. I don't WanNa have things that are left unsaid. So no for all of your listeners. Having the hard conversations now will I save the conversation for you know you're just saving the conversation precision for later Or worse case scenario won't ever have it You Know God knows what happens after that. So have the hard conversations with your parents answer your family now get them to to see you get what you want to say Because you're going to have to stay at eventually. Get it over. Yeah Yeah I mean as a particular set of circumstances though that to what you're talking about I was a little younger younger. I was But not much nineteen but a lot of things were different between what you're describing in my situation. I was still in college. That my folks were helping me pay for and It was Catholic college and so I was still getting messaging. They're on like you couldn't you couldn't come amount you could be kicked out of school So like for me that actually to your point It did sort of force me to have. Well I I'll say I'll say this is just like straight up not safe to have some of these conversations. You're talking about when it's safe yet but you're just making a choice or whatever and I get that. I think because of the specifics of what I'm talking about I did have to have have those conversations like very in a very focused way just because like I wasn't it didn't have any. I didn't have this other thing going on like job or something else that was pulling me in a different direction. I had to just like kind of work. It out with over you know from like nineteen to twenty five is renewing old environment to you. Because you're being you're asking them for their resources to go to to this crazy that's not allowing you to actually be yourself because of their belief system so it's anti understand every situation very different front. Obviously safety is number one priority but yeah That's far end and I'm glad that you had those conversations. You yeah no yeah I mean I have. I have a lot of compassion for you because like the pressure cooker of all of that kind of just. You know you're right like it did like. By the time I was twenty five. I was living back in Chicago ago and dating a woman that they liked and it was just like okay now we have to get over this now. It was just it was so it was such a finite amount of time because it was so big and I'm imagining like in your case Yeah that's all that's a long time to sort of carry that That like dance that you're doing where because I certainly did that. During that time there was you know went home for Thanksgiving. I didn't bring my partner because or like brought somebody in. She was my friend. You know like I did did that all but it was all just very condensed and I certainly know how stressful that is to try to figure out like sort of who can hear what about your life lifelike. Who in your life can hear what things about your life? That compartmentalization is It's it's so isolating in And I I just have a lot of compassion for what. I'm assuming you must have been going through at that time. which is a lot alike redirecting towards soccer whatever or that also added a layer of pressure to the whole thing? Because I started to get a little bit more famous. My name was a little bit more out out there. And so you know my mom at one point just begged me not to come out publicly you know. And it's this whole idea of perception and the way that the outside world her seize your family in the way that I was raised and how that's GonNa reflect on my I chance so I for my mom. Also but here's the bin. It became this pressure cooker and that kind of led me down really really difficult path towards the end of my career and a lot of things were kind of coming to a head for me and I was really struggling alcohol and pills. And and so that was the other side of it where I was placating and wanting my mom's uh-huh security and acceptance while all the while not listening to my own needs and so I went the opposite ops direction inserted making bad choices for my personalized for my personal body. And so I think that there is. There has the balance of protection. There has to be protection in place for you and your cells that is is long-term right. Yeah as soon as I started to struggle. You know as soon as I actually started struggling and then you know when when it should actually hit the fan I got a Dui. Why like my life completely changed? I got sober. And I was able to actually have these hard conversations I was actually able to create boundaries and create a life for myself that felt really good because of my gayness not inspite and I think that that I needed to get to that point unfortunately I needed to get so low that I had nothing else but but the requirement of accepting who. I was an accepting what life I wanted and then go out and and create it so you know as much as I would love to sit sit here and blame my parents for every little thing that ever went wrong in my life like I am here now because of them. Some of that struggle struggle though it was hard though it was very real has allowed me to get stronger in ways that I wouldn't have right and so it's not offer is not all for not right like I understand to everybody's stories different in everybody's different everybody's reaction to is different but for me Eh. I WanNa be the narrator of my story and in order to take control of all the aspects of it and I don't Wanna I don't WanNA blame. Don't give out any of the power that have been able to curate for myself create for myself so I wanNA take on myself and You the strongest day can be yes via the strongest thing so when you were kid and you're getting out in front of folks funny you brought bullying you. What would they have been saying thing? I mean it's the best way I can subscribe. I mean The best way I can describe it is okay so you talked about moonlight right and I always push this argument about moonlights at the boy wasn't being bullied because he was gay. He was being bullied because he was weak. And and I think within society a lot of times weakness is a sign of gayness. You know and it doesn't necessarily have to actually do with sexuality if they know are not you know and I think I as you say. I'm very skinny. I wasn't the athletic type is just who it wasn't you know and so I think because of that people may funding for that reason. Now there were smaller things like talking with my hands or the way I was sit sometimes people would say oh. You're gay or something like that. You know but I always felt like I was being bullied because I was weak. You know and that I wasn't I wasn't a manly man. You you know as people wanted me to be do you think that week equates with I mean I wish better words in this but feminine in your in in what was was being perceived by other people I think so I think that's what people equated to. Yeah and I mean I don't know what this is like because I will say my experience as a woman. You're you're not necessarily patrolled for that because you're already feminine So people already hate you for that reason. It's not there's no there's other stuff that you're patrolled but it's not that so you know and I also have no idea what it's like to be a black man and MVP patrolled for that. Because I think especially if you're a black man it's you better not be feminine because you are being required to take on the world you know like the world is is down on you better you better be big in toughen and be able to push back and I think it trickles down into even the gay community especially now and you know we have a lot of gay men they say mask for mask you we know now films in the feminity never never actually means that that person is you know Oh hey gras like yes queen and stuff of like that but it's sometimes has to do muscles you know they want somebody that looks like a bodybuilder hits the gym every single day you know days consider that to be masculine and for me personally. They just never made sense to me. Because I'm like okay. Somebody can be muscular. Combat can be a trash person you know and the fact that you are willing to say they just because this person has muscles and they look. Oh Good Oh that's the love of my life. That's my husband. You know like that doesn't really make sense to me. How do you feel now about the same because yeah you're you know you're the size is that you are your own? How people say to you? Do you still get shit. Yes I still feel it. I still feel very much and I think what happened. I think this is Ryan very cautious of enough pay more attention now. Is that because they know my job. So they're kind of like. Oh Okay Yeah. He may be this but he has is this. which are these people usually don't have so that balances it out you know and for me? That's not good enough. You know you have to like me for every every piece of me you know and it's like I won't accept anything less than and I think that's also why I tend to just be single because I don't settle. I don't think as his dating as a hobby. I don't need someone to make me feel good about myself and I'm not interested in compromising who I am just for somebody to hold me at night. Have you had experiences where somebody was telling you a positive thing about your body and you believe them like. Have you had those experiences yet. Because you're you're pretty young person totally. Possibly you haven't Dusko Croatia. I don't know I don't think I don't think I in our crisis. I got a personal trainer once I moved to. La started working out and the reason. Why is because I told him? I said I'm not doing this for me as I'm doing this because it's a business move. Sure is the business. You look different now. After having a trainer barely non not consistent I wish I was more consistent and but I I did it because I felt like I needed to gain weight. I needed to start looking bigger. I needed to look more like a man. You know a more masculine man if I was going to. It'd be one an actor in the industry in remember when I wanted to be enacted. The very first thing that was told to me was that I wasn't going to be able to be that because I was gay. I I mean what's funny about this and the sort of way that you know. We ask where people have to continue to be in the world is like that was your reaction after you were offered. The job in brought here is to be like now. I need to make sure I can get a job here. It's like you already had the job. But it's so internalized you know that like you already already getting all this positive feedback in your like. And I. I also understand. There is a world where are working on. Ascetics can benefit you out here in Los Angeles. I'm cut right. Well what you know. Yeah you're getting a positive you're getting positive reinforcement and you're like I wonder if I should double down on changing. Correct this thing about my second. Yeah exactly well. I think a lot of times when people ask me 'cause it'll be like oh he's so humble and stuff like that and I tell people is like I have to be because that I'm black and I'm gay. This industry was not built for me. It wasn't if I lose this. I could probably never work again. It's not it's not meant you know is kind of like Ellen knew that she was going to lose everything she didn't know she was ever going to work again. She didn't know if she was going to be able to sustain her life again. You know but she was willing to risk at all and then it came back to her team photos. You know but for me is I. It's so many layers is so much intersection. I'll be that people don't understand you know. I don't have time not to be humble because there's literally nowhere where I fit in you know I. I don't fit in with the African American community because I'm gay and I don't fit anywhere else because I'm black so as I have to figure out how to create my own lane right my own thing like even with red-carpeted. It and stuff like that. I know I'm always with my team. Always telling them to get me into everything as possible muscle and I always want to make sure that front row and center at these events and people get a little touchy when I post things about me and the Hollywood world. Because they're like oh he's changing or he's getting into Hollywood but I have to fight to be in those places because of visibility you know growing up. I had no one to look at that. I could say all that's who I can be. So you know I think about billy porter now and I'm like if I would have had a billy porter growing up. I can only imagine how I would have been able to find myself sooner so I do everything so that I can be be front and center and visible to those little boys out there. That are just like me. Who needs somebody to believe in because people that are black and queer are usually only told their limitations and not limitless possibilities? I mean that's amazing and I was going to follow up by asking you about billy porter and that in and of itself it is awesome and sad because we came up with the same name. Okay like I just mean like yeah. Exactly uh-huh grown up with film blankets billy porter. Because that's you know that's that's who it is right now. Yeah Hey I mean when I hear you I do I hear you I. I also understand the feeling of if I lose this job. There isn't another. You know the things that I have been cast in as an actor are all things that usually weren't written for a cup. I'm trying to think a couple of them. I guess have been for Lesbian. But a Lotta Times. It's just been like somebody asked me to be in a thing so I got to be in it. I say that because like when there is a role that specifically for Queer Woman that you you know three hundred women show up for that because that's their because there aren't that many and by the way we're also competing meeting with like strike straight women who might also have our haircuts for the role you know like it's it's it's a whole thing hang Yeah it's really it's really intense and I just want to like zoom back to this thing for one tiny second before. Are we move on the thing about getting positive feedback from your body that that you believe. I just WanNa say that this is humid. I really hope that happens for you. I mean because because I I am also somebody that was bullied. I was bullied when I was a little kid. But the other way because kids thought I was fat but I think that actually really was just them seeing queen this and not knowing what to call it. I had this body. I'm not like a person that it should necessarily Not Nobody should but I just. I'm not fat. I'm not fat person so I just have looked back on. This childhood. have been like what was the thing that was going on. Just like you being made fun of for being skinny like that. That could be like a skinny thing thing but it's also because it means femininity gay like it's like putting a label tour. Yeah exactly that's and it's also just like a shorthand thing where you're like. I know what you mean is so you know in a sense. Even though it went very very different sides of coin we had kind of the same experience of being like body patrolled based on what was something people aren't necessarily yeah you know name and It's a really tough experience. I think my advantage comes from fashion though. Oh tell me 'cause like doing like fashion week and stuff getting dressed for premieres and stuff. I can can fit sample size sample size. So it's like I can get close like that you know and I don't have to worry about alterations or getting them tailored and stuff. Because I can fit Tim right off the runway I love. I thrive for that. I can really pull some looks out here but yeah I think I I will will say that. Even though I was teased or bullied for those things I don't necessarily feel like they hunt me. Oh that's good. I don't yeah I don't ever think about like Oh my God my legs too skinny or you like why do I look like that. Yeah I'm not that type of person but I think what has happened. Is that because of feeling like I am too feminine as sometimes is that I think hinders me trusting my talent Because I think I tried hi to code switch a lot in what I do and trying to figure out what is a more acceptable version in do you mean code switch Like more straight or do you mean code switch more white or do you mean code switch more both I think all of the above. Yeah I think all of the above no I think working on special and like you know it's interesting doing doing the press stuff for the show like I had met with a lot of disability groups and I've done like I've met with a lot of disabled writers and I've been kind of like thrust into to the spotlight as a disabled person. So it's almost like therapy like being thrown into the deep end and it's been really incredible. I really expected to be having moments where I was a little overwhelmed. A little scared like rob. I really haven't had that because the community is so awesome and everyone is so great and like loving nurturing that it's been like it's been been a great kind of home to go to go to two defines you know that's that's that's wonderful. Yeah best case scenario. Yeah it really is. I mean I know. Sometimes it's a lot of pressure to be. Oh it's still working on. That even have found that like that can go either way. You know that can be. You can be really embraced or people can be pretty critical or picky because they want things to be exactly like how it is for the exemptions assert suicide specified to their experience. You know and as a person in the spotlight. You're always just speaking on your own behalf. Yes but it's it's important to try to make those like the edges of your behalf cover. Other people are extend to other people without falling in his trap of speaking for other folks. This really interesting dance into a tight rope that we all walk but you know it's funny. I really was worried about that. I was really worried about the burden of representation. I felt that I was like okay. I'm one of the first disabled people to get a platform lengths to tell my story but I know I know that my the story is not going to be everyone story and I hope they're okay with that and twist honey they were and I I was expecting the backlash honey is acting like people. What a come from me to drag me to health? But they didn't they really isn't it. It's so interesting. I think. Here's what I'll say. I don't know why actually why there wasn't a backlash Josh. I think but I will say this. I think when you write from pure place which I did for special like I just wrote purely from my experience and I am a brutally honest person like I don't hold pull back and I think that when you're authentic. I think like people respond to that. Even if that doesn't look exactly like Ben you know what I mean. I don't I don't know that's my guess assed why there was no backlash this the specific the specific always kind of your. Yes your your best covered by the specific because the more specific you can be even the more obvious that is that you're that you're that you're like you're showing instead of telling people that this just as my experience I also drink. The bar are was so low for disability representation. Seriously like 'em now who's going to be like wow like finally like a disabled person where someone doesn't commit suicide at the end of the victory uranium like or like or like it's like or it's actually written by an able person and there's an actor. Disable title is dealing with and not just disabled but like disabled in the way that the character it looks like it's you know I just feel like it's usually either somebody in disabled faced I or it's somebody that's like stretching what's going on for them into other sphere fucking bleak man disability condition is bleak ads. The fuck like that gets to me. What's important is that our stories get told but they told by us so we profit from our own stories? I think that Hollywood has a a big old hard on for profiting off the pain of people without giving them any opportunities and that really gets my goat. I hate that like I can't watch another gay movie where it's like written and directed by a straight guy or storing a straight actor. Like no honey. You don't get to do that anymore. It's really that really drives me crazy. I also I'm I'm not sure if I'm allowed to say disabled face I just WanNa say as I think as expected I I. I'm wondering if as a white person I'm not clear I'm not a PC. Wait for the wait for the comments. Sure do when you were a kid or kidd. You said the P. E. was hard. Yeah what what. What else an Isa you that? There was stretching and PT. Going on. We're did you. You have to work on anything like I guess in thinking about your gate or specifically your posture things like that were there. Yeah Yeah tell me a little bit about that like what was happening for you in terms of how you spend your time getting your body to where it is now. It's hard with CPI because when you're growing that's when meaning to do all the work and then when you hit puberty and you stop growing you're pretty much done like so the first twelve years of your life I mean for me I had a lot of surgeries as I had this surgery called the killers. Tendon lengthening surgery. which basically meant that? I was in a wheelchair for like five months I had I had a couple surgeries surgeries growing up. Both was that on both legs one was on. I think both legs. I don't Fuck No. It's all like my memories like Swiss cheese. I just remember number like a lot of surgeries and I had. I had leg braces growing up. which were such a fucking nightmare? I mean it was like catering to my disability with sort of a fulltime job. I also just like didn't know how to navigate my own body because I was like Placenta. I was a kid so like it was just a lot of trial and error and and then when I when I went wind high school it was sort of just like it was I mean I was left with what I was left with. You know so I was able to just kind of be which was such a relief Yeah I mean that's that's actually. Why are you saying that you were left to be? That's actually why I'm asking because again just like a little bit of familiarity with folks who are dealing with C.. P. There was. There's a lot of You know like stuff that like strength training exercises are like standing was specifically something that some kids would be like putting interesting position. 'cause 'cause weight-bearing actually helps you grow taller so things that like. I think maybe able bodied kids aren't even realizing that it's it's a just like a ton of effort you're like you're going through regular classes like other folks but then you're just doing all these other things essentially You you know prepping like an NBA star or whatever like and mixing that with like being an elementary school kid. We're also like navigating a world that is not built for us so it's basically like every day is like a game of frogger like literally like how am I going to get through this day. Hamad navigate this space. That doesn't that I don't fit in and that's not handicap accessible. Like how am I going to not trip over. This person like go to my desk and like like it's just crazy. The amount of mental gymnastics. You go through every single day to Kinda pure power to everyone else around you and things that you do without even realizing especially growing up because you're obviously not like emotionally intelligent enough to realize what's going on but in the last couple of years as I really realized how much thought goes into how people perceive me and even in my appearance like it's like very much like Oh oh like I'm disabled but like don't worry babe like I'm wearing like acne jeans and a PC shirt and like girl I totally went to best bucking like. It's like you know it's just like it's all. Aw I'm just like you like that's the underneath of everything I do is i. Don't worry like I'm not scary like don't worry I may be present as different but I'm really not that different and I think that gay people obviously have that in terms of the the whole mask. FEM Bullshit Stephen. I think yeah you just want to fit into what's what's perceived as normal but I've kind of let that go but it is it is it's sad kind of like thinking about how much on time I've wasted to try writes fit in quote unquote such a fruitless game. It is but everybody listening. I'm sure innocence. Somebody career folks that listening to this show. You're exactly right to point out. That it's a similar gambit. I was just in right before I was in New York which is where filming or recording this. Now who's just in rural rural Oregon and Went into like the town that was there and it was going into businesses every business as I walked into. I swear every business was like. We're where are you from. They just kept asking me where it was like. It was perfect. Just I wanted to be like. I don't know if you had a meeting about this. But congratulations on nailing the in unison. Feeling of of this I I think like I feel I. Guess I'm a pretty confident person. But I still sometimes feel like I'm attracting getting a lot of attention to myself or Donna myself. Just for like a shirt choice. You know and it's not like the world tells me not to worry about this instead. If you're in Oregon people like you are definitely but that's just say yeah. Yeah it's interesting like I. I'm a very confident person. To Kinda can always have been but then there's always things like remind me that I still have a long way to go like even with acting in special I was never attached to star in it and I now I've realized like I am a performer. And that's okay. I think I had a lot of stigma jim around it because because I feel like wanting to do my own show wanting to executive produce it wanting to write it I felt like oh well. That's enough that's enough. I don't I don't need any more. I don't WanNA take too much I. I don't want to take too much so when we initially went out and pitched it didn't attach myself. It wasn't like I was like deep down being. Oh God I wish I could act. I don't know I am southern in an scenario but I wish I could. I wish I could get myself the courage to want that. It was buried so deep down that I didn't even realize that that was something I wanted. Until we went through you. This digital branch of Warner brothers and really out of financial necessity. They were like okay. Well you have to star in and I was like Ooh key so I was forced to star in my own when show and then once I did it I was like Oh twist like. I've actually always wanted to do this. I just never gave myself permission to want those things. You know what I mean. Yes I I do I really do. I do. Who did you when you when you were imagining the show and you were thinking that it might be somebody else knows you? Did you have anybody in mind. No actress don't grow in trees. Honey I wish Oh my God I'm just hanging. Outside of Easter Seals will the net. I asked because I also love that. Like in terms of of a Denial in terms of where you're at mentally just going in and thinking like and then we'll get like some other like great gay disabled after thinking Gov Blank don't have an example but I'm sure we'll find I know I know and also like the there are gay disabled actors. Now I know. Because she's like plugged in Huntington ingalls on that fucking Poles but on but I think also is really important to me that this character has the same physicality as me and that is really hard like you can run another yes. That's more what I'm fucking. You're writing all this stuff in like the specific whatever in unlike what problems this person Hazar interpreted. And then you're trying to find so you're not just extra trying to find a disabled actor. You're trying to find somebody with mild. CPI who looks exactly like you is your size in the same clothes plus your hair. Yeah and also not me. I don't WanNa do that. That is crazy but even the even okay so even like you know. We're not officially agreement for season. Two bits looking very good and we were talking about A writer's room for season two. I wrote all the episodes of the first season in just just can't happen again. That took ten years of my life And they're like and I was like oh I'll need a CO showrunner and they're like really and I was like yeah and it took me. He likes to realize I'm like we. I like show ran the first season. It was just me writing all these episodes like I had amazing producers and as director who definitely like were instrumental confusing and did a credible job. But like I did this already but my brain immediately goes to high. Can't show run it. It's like I can't show run the show it's like there's part of me that's like well I I guess. I'll be the riders assistant season two. You know what I mean like I I've given myself permission to have a be a story editor on my own show like it's it's so insidious like it's so crazy that my brain still goes to a place where it's like. Oh I can't do that. That's crazy even though they've already done it I've already said what do you think that is. I think this route of of like not wanting to demand or I don't know I think it's a person thing I think everyone can relate to it. It's the fucking. I'm sorry. I'm sorry I'm sorry like it's like it's it's just like us really Feeling uncomfortable asserting ourselves and I'm going to serve bitch. That's the crazy thing that's affecting me. E It's affecting everybody times ten because I am like a very vocal strong person but I guess I just never I guess the things that I'm getting in my life. I never imagined on some level I did imagine but I didn't imagine on this scale. I didn't imagine that I didn't think that I'd be show running my own show at thirty two. I I just didn't think that would happen. I think that's what takes I don't know I don't know I just second guess myself. You know what I mean but then I'm like wait. No I'm can do it so I'm leaning meaning in honey I'm leaning in. What about your relationship going through something like this like a more intense Berge in of any job? I mean this is what you're describing is a very intense And really demanding schedule and then also putting your like being out in in front of folks for the first time and having all that I know you said four and a half years so that must of men that like very early in this relationships the book was optioned. Attend using. This person has sort of been with you at all but not necessarily with the with looking this way and then suddenly. You're like shirtless in Tokyo. Is your relationship. He he's incredible like I'm not kidding. You like he will. I've really lucky. In the sense I I picked someone who is comfortable with himself and likes himself so any of the insecurities that poisoner relationship. We you don't have like I feel very like West. We're also like communicate of divas like we communicate everything so like I think communication is like there are like twenty eight thousand fires that could be started in relationship at any given day and then like communicating immediately. Just like getting the hose out immediately like it's like quitting it out putting putting putting out and and if you don't honey that fire grows in the house burns down so how you do that. How do you as much as as personal as you WanNa get? How'd you communicating in your relationship ship and it doesn't but just like for a lot of folks that are listening agree with that? I think that's so you have to be with someone who likes themselves like insecurity has nothing to do with you so like it doesn't like it's like they're like a lot of that projection. It's like you project her own show on your partner. And all of a sudden they're like the trash receptacle for issues and the mets not fair during the museum has nothing to do with your actual relationship or your connection so like I feel very lucky. I'm very comfortable in myself in my skin. Scan in my relationship and my boyfriend's the same way like we just we don't there's no room for that and it's like he's also a writer and we lifted each other up the chargers cheerleaders and like a win for him. A Win for me. Like we're just incredibly supportive but again like I got someone who was a fully formed and like who didn't have a a brain that was like a jar of rat poison like you know what I mean. Does it relationships can fall apart with no rat poison. Brian grow apart. which is the communication piece? is how how you're doing that so like are you guys sitting down face to face Acer. You like texting with each other. Like how do you keep that going during an uptick in schedule like this the dialogue is always open. Like it's like and we'll talk about it. I'll be like how will check in. It's like a lot of checking and be like how you doing day like Nevada. I was pretty insane. Okay like a and it's just always kind of being aware of his feelings and and also just like the sounds Corny to say but like there needs to be just a general foundation of respect for each other which again I think in the the relationships that I see my friends getting into their bad. I think there's also just a fundamental lack of respect on both you know what I mean. so yeah we we just we check in ally and I don't know I think it's sort of like there's not like a proven formula. I think that when when something's getting a little tense. Or when someone's feeling a little edgy. See that's when we started being like okay. Like how are you feeling about this and then again like we just diffuse it. We don't go to bed angry. That's a big role that we rule that we have Yeah I don't know like yeah. Those are all really tangible things you do. It said very tangible things. It's is important but it's like again like I just love the shadow of him and I just WanNa bring him so much joy and happiness. Because it's like I think I'm definitely crazier than he is like. And sometimes I feel my temper kind of rising or if I feel kind of angry and displaced anger wanting to like pick a fight or something like that. I always think it's like. Would he ever do this to me. Would he ever did this. To me. And the answer's always no because he's literally a sweetheart from heaven above and I'm like Oh then he would never do that. So why would I do that to him. Oh you mean like treat him how he. Co Yeah. I don't know how cheating scandal breaks out Music fucking didn't even Kid Anani. We're also open which really helps to hello and Yeah so I think being open in you know like we went to bears in space like a couple of weeks ago when like made out with two guys. I'm lucky. Watch the TONYS and we like lulled about it that night Mike. Just that's just the gateway honey. I know you said you hadn't dated a bunch that you were the long long period of celibacy. So is this your first relationship absence person. Yeah Yeah I mean. I dated someone in high school for six months but that was nothing that was like you know. A relationship with training. Training Wheels I date guys sporadically in New York. When I lived there but I had the intimacy issues at the zoo and It was so funny like my whole mode was like I would get obsessed with someone and project qualities onto them that they they definitely didn't have like one thing I realized like like I would always. He's like call someone funny and like now being very seriously and like I categorized as either their lawler's dollars and like like I just realized I would say there's a lot of dollars out there like people doing out with it. You're like wow I should have actually charged a fee. Because I did all the work. Now I have back problems from carrying all the conversations but but anyway I dated a lot of guys may twentieth. We're very sweet and very nice to like not a good fit. But also I'd get obsessed with them. I did like I think all these things about them. That weren't really true and get them and then I like my brain was like it was an intruder came into membrane. was like run run run run run and I just would feel so uncomfortable like I. I would see couples in New York like like going to the farmer's market like flea market day like whatever and be like how do people what do this like. How do people just like look happy? Normal function lives like. How did you let anyone in and then when I met Jonathan my boyfriend now It was the same same thing I like. I got obsessed with him I then then we saw dating and then immediately started like freaking out about it and But this time I realized that he actually was has all those things that I wasn't projecting inequalities on like with the real deal and then I broke up with him and then a month later I was like Oh my God. I made a giant mistakenly baked into take me back and I and I said to him as A. Here's the deal like I'm fucking crazy and like my brain's like an unsafe neighborhood to walk around at night. But like I promised to you that I I will try to show up for you the best way that I know how and I said at the time not even really believing it like. I hope that's true. Who like you know what you mean? Like my brain hasn't caught up with my heart But it actually was true. I I don't know I. I honestly feel like Jonathan like a fluke that somehow you know like my brain is district nine and then there's like a strawberry patch of like love and light where he resides like safe away from the district nine. That's kind of what he does. But that thing that you're talking about projecting on those positive qualities and having that'd be pretty far away from the person that you're with is some that is really common. I think that that is maybe not so specific to your brain as something that like a lot of folks especially early on in dating especially when you're when you're going through like your first bunch relationships because of course you know we're fed all this these ideas that there's going to be like a person out there whose your number one person or whatever it is and then if you're queer on top of that it's like you probably have. I mean this is a little less true now than it would have been the past but not necessarily like. You're probably a little bit behind in terms of like developmental stuff when you're starting today. People says it's so important you know like your first relationship. I mean I was like I was twenty when I was when I had my first girlfriend and had had boyfriends before that and then here comes this person and and I couldn't figure out that something about her didn't work for me and break up with her because she was my whole family early and my also my entire access to queasiness and also you know the only. So there's there's so much riding on everything. Of course it makes sense to like a Prescribe all these things to folks and then also to have them like I think fall in a more. It's like angels from Heaven or whatever. It was supposed to be perfect. I know that's that was never even guaranteed you made up you know in my case also incredibly narcissistic because they realized that like you know insecurity in our system are like fucking sisters. They're like best friends and I think I was deeply insecure and I feel like I was projecting all these qualities onto people thinking making them into these fantasy people that they weren't but I wasn't actually paying attention to who they were and I actually wasn't that interested in who they were. I don't think I you know what I mean like. If I actually was was like did I even think to like listen to them and like what they wanted like. I don't know I was too busy. Like just fashioning this fantasy life for them and be Lincoln okay. This is what they are like. I wasn't really interested in like diving in because I couldn't I was very limited narcissism limits. You you're just like you're you can't go far that's right. I mean that's everything you're saying is yes super rate narcissism does create create a need for other people to fit into your story. Yeh exactly it's all about building a narrative and like making sure they're giving you what you want and not being about what they need from you or who they are as people. Yes did you just did you just happen to find somebody who specifically asks for what they need or demand what happened. I did a lot of work on myself like I changed a lot. I spent my twenty S. You know lying about my disability. The is a car accident victim. I was addicted to drugs and then I moved to La. I got my dream job writing for television on. I started working out in kind of developing hoping unhealthy religion but my body for the first time and then I came out about having cerebral palsy. Like for the first time so all the the years between like twenty seven twenty seven in twenty eight years that I really just grew the fuck up like I truly got Michelle together and kind of evolved into a healthier version of myself so I think I was ready ready to I. I was ready. It sounds Corny but like I was ready to receive that love. I was ready to receive that help. You love 'cause like anyone can get bad love. You can get bad levitt like you know costco or wherever like it's easy to get anyone to fall in love with you but like to get to be ready for that good love into receive it and to you. Let that in. That's like that's like a gift but you have to do to work on yourself. You have to do the work

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Session 111: Considerations When Coparenting

Therapy for Black Girls

33:12 min | 1 year ago

Session 111: Considerations When Coparenting

"Welcome to the therapy. For black girls podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development and all the small decisions, we can make to become the best possible versions of our sales. I'm your host Dr joy, Hardin Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a therapist in your area. Visit our website at therapy for let girls dot com, while I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for relationship with a licensed, mental health professional. A oh, thanks so much for joining me for session. One eleven of the therapy for black girls podcast today. We're digging into co-parenting relationships. My line sister, Dr Audrey. Towns is back to chat, all about the things you need to consider to affect co parent, but first, let's show them love to our. For today's episode comes from natural issues. 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And get some time back in your busy schedule than I definitely recommend that you, try them, you can find the natural issues products and over twelve hundred Sally stores nationwide. Are you can buy them online at Sally, beauty dot com? Use our exclusive promo code five five five five five five at checkout to save ten percent off of your purchase. Now, let's get back to the episode. As a reminder if you didn't hear Dr RG town on her last visit with us. She earned an undergraduate degree in psychology from Xavier university of Louisiana. She went on to complete her master's degree in healthcare administration at Tulane university, and a master's, and doctorate degree in clinical psychology, and Nova southeastern university, in south Florida doctor tells will return to Tennessee into h in to become the director of psychology at a western mental health institute shortly after she began her career with Shelby county jails as the director of mental health in twenty eleven overseeing mental health services, provided to the incarcerated throughout Memphis, Tennessee, inspired by the obvious. Lack of psychological resources, doctor tells established k-league psychological services to meet the needs of the community and to continue educating an attempt to reduce the stigma of. Illness, Dr Townsville, and I chatted about the different possibilities for co-parenting relationships. Some of the main concerns that get in the way of being able to co parent, how therapy can be helpful in developing a healthy co-parenting relationship in the importance of making sure you're clear in your communication, with your children about what the co parenting, relationship will look like if you hear something while listening that really resonates with you. Please share with us on social media using the hashtag TV in session. Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for being back with us today. Dr town. So route, thank you for inviting me. Yes. I'm very happy to have you back. So, you know, people have not listened to me, definitely need to go back and listen to your episode. That was all about how social media impacts on mental health. We are still getting commented emails about that. If assode. Yes. Oh, definitely. Wanna check out if you haven't, but we want to talk today about co-parenting and, you know, we seen more in the news about people in what they're co parenting relationships. Look, legs are really wanted to dig into this, you know, it was also requested by people because this is sometimes very difficult thing for people to navigate once a relationship has ended and children are involved. You know it can become difficult. So I wrote a I or by hearing, like what kinds of different types of co-parenting arrangements, can people try like what are even the actions for co-parenting? Okay. Well, just self disclosure, I have been a coke for seven years. And I would say, we had a very successful co-parenting relationship. But I think we've gone through a lot of different stages, and a lot of different styles of Copernican finally found the one that works for us in our signed. So we'll talk about the different types of co-parenting relationships. There are typically three common types. The first one is a high conflict Copernicus style. And usually, this is one that is highly motions, of course, list of favorable one, the communication is usually often done through court systems lawyers family members. And when the coke parents have to interact it can become very toxic. And so research has shown like this is the Copernican style where you see most of high depression, some learning disabilities. They have a poor ability to resolve conflict. So the next one is the parents who use a parallel coping Fausto parallel means that they have been very minimal contact. So this is I'm in my house. You're on your house. We agree to exchange our child with there's very little communication on how the child is raised. There's no personal exchanges almost like a business ranch -ment in sex on our similar to the ones of the high conflict here in style. And we talked about earlier that the last one is one of a collaborative Copernicus style. And that's the one that's kind of been in the media lately about, you know, with Will Smith. Jada Pinkett was beats Alicia Keys. This type of star were there is a collaboration and things are talk through. And there is a very open type of communication between the parents and anyone else who's involved in this type of style, where we see the more positive effects on child. The child is less anxious, less depressed. They are engaged in social activities. They know how to resolve conflicts easily, and their communication styles are more productive guys to okay, so I think this great information for us to new now. I'm sure you know, people are thinking, like, of course, ideally, you would want to have this collaborative parenting style. But depending on whatever the situation was that ended the relationship, you know, like there could be lots of reasons why you might not. Immediately be able to get to this collaborative place. Right. So what are some of the things you think you know that you kinda wanna think about what kind of work? Do you want to be doing to maybe move towards where you could be in a more collaborative? Lisa co-parenting. Yeah. One, you have to always make sure that you compartmentalize your partner's ability to be a parent versus air to be a partner in a relationship. So once the relationship is resolved. You have to deal with it separately from their ability to be a parent so really compartmentalize in to a certain extent your emotions about how the relationship ended and really focusing on the child because now it's just point in the relationship. The goal is to raise a healthy child and not to kind of rehash certain things about the relationship, but simultaneously, you probably need to resolve those issues whether that be in therapy doing some self reflection. And sometimes I've known. Couples who co peer in go to therapy together, and so that's always upon is, but there has to be some separation between the ending of that intimate relationships and the beginning of a co parenting relationship so that it can be productive in healthy for the child. He and I want to hear a little bit more about, like, what compartmentalizing, you know, looks like because of course when you're dealing with something like a break up or a divorce. Or, you know, something has happened a lot of that bleeds into the rest of your life. Right. And so would it even look like to compartmentalize that, so that you can of course, focus on the parenting piece? Okay. Compartmentalize in is really being able to separate your personal emotions about the break up and how you want to co parent moving forward. So that means that you have to make a conscious effort to separate your partner in intimate situation. And what worked or didn't work from their ability to be a co parent. So basically. Really resolving or trying to resolve your feelings about them in their involvement in the relationship, and what that will look like with them just being a parent. I've my clients most of my clients, go on the state website and print out there states co-parenting plan and what the plan does. He just lays out basically everything that will involve your Copernicus ration-, and that will be, how many days, you know, each parent will have parent time who get the child on holidays for all of those things are, including on their parent plan. I advise that we do that before emotions get involved, and when that's done, and you want to change after the break-up, then there's a question, am I doing this out of the best interest of my child or am I doing this because I'm having some emotional response, because break-up, but if the plan is already establishing laid out. There's no question as to we're focusing. On the best care for our child. And so that's really what compartmentalizing looks like is you dealing with your emotions separate and apart from what it looks like for you to be a co parent in a situation where you're no longer with appear in relationship to industry, does every state have this like on their website. I'm not sure if every state has one, but there are templates of how to navigate that conversation of developing. What the Copan relationship will look like moving forward. Okay. So even if you're state doesn't have a formal one, you can just Google co-parenting templates, and it'll give you an idea of. Yeah. Okay. I mean, they're they're of templates out there online. Okay. Okay. So you mentioned that town. So also that some co parents will go sit there and figure out how to negotiate this. Can you talk a little bit more about like with there might look like to work with the therapist to effectively co parent? Absolutely. So usually when I'm working with co parent, I make sure that we have a clear objective of therapy. So that there is not for or the goal of therapy is not to reconcile the relationship or for the parents get back together. If we're there just for co-parenting, so highly recommend to not muddy the waters that there, be a decision may early on to stop all intimacy. Because that makes the co parent relationship theory, confusing, of course, we kind of get into some things about their feelings about how the relationship ended some sometime. They're the other parent wants to feel that they are heard or the they're still are validated. And so we try as much as we can to resolve some of those lingering emotional issues. But for the most part, we work on communication and setting goes for what positive co-parenting will look like, as we transition from an intimate relationship to strictly co-parenting relationship. Now it will be completely up to the parents, if they want to reconcile their relationship at the end of fear p for me, that's not go if we're only there just to improve the co-parenting relationship was you said about making sure that is clear from the front end because of course, there will be less confusing. If one of the things we're coming into trying to figure out how we're going to get back together in the other person understands that we are really just figuring out how to parents together absolute and that's one of the first questions that I that I ask when they arrive is what are your views on why you're here. And I asked them individually just to make sure that we're all. On the same page. And, you know, one parent is not thinking that they're there for couples therapy, while the other just strictly I'm here to be a better cope here. So that's something that we address early on in the session, just to make sure that we're all on the same page. And there's no confusion, moving forward gun, it got it. So would some of the topics you find cool. Parents, get stuck like what are some of the things that kinda keep people having difficulty kind of moving forward in their coping relations to be honest with you, the, the number one issue that I see is forgiveness in hurt about how the relationship ended in feeling that they were not heard, or they're feeling have been or just generally they've been violated? So to resolve those still, I think it's best to resolve them into digitally before we start to work on a co-parenting relationships because usually there's one parent, who is more upsetting than the other. And that's kind. Of the person or the parent that we want to target first, so that we can resolve some of those emotional hurts that they have, so that we can move forward in a positive pope here, Latian ship, again, the number one issue that I see is unresolved hurt, and I'm going to say this all cases, but generally the mother has an unrealistic expectation of what the relationship should be. Once they have a child, and I think it goes back to when we were little girls that we had we see, you know, we play with Ken and Barbie, and they have a car and they, you know, they have a house. But sometimes every relationship doesn't end that way. And so, two almost have the mother and sometimes the farthest will. But generally most moms never see themselves as single moms or having to raise a child in a situation where they co parent. So it's really difficult for some people to accept the reality that the image that they have about what their life should be is not the reality of what's. On now. So just having to resolve their conflict about their image of being a parent, or being in a relationship with the father of their child, and the reality that there will be a co parent relationship is something that, that I address often there. Those are the most common thing that I encounter in co peer the situation. Okay. Got you. Of course, you know, a mom, and dad is kind of most commonly what we hear in terms of co-parenting situation after in a relationship is what, of course, we know families can look Lhasa different ways. So coping could also be, you know, partners of the same sex, who know have ended a relationship a created their families through other means besides just a man and the woman. So, so are there things that you think we need to pay attention to related to that? I would imagine some of it is the same. They're probably awesome unique differences. Not yet really. We'll use the same tactic because everyone has some feelings about the ending of a relationship. It doesn't matter if you know, you're a heterosexual couple or the same sex couple, you still go through the same grief of a relationship having unresolved feelings about a relationship and then learning to transition into Copernican, so. A lot of things that are pretty much the same, especially when they have, you know, moved beyond, you know, socil- to expect patients of quote unquote, a typical co parenting relationship. Looks like with man versus one min when it becomes the same sex relationships. So it's really pretty much the same trend in the same things that we would talk about in a, a heterosexual couple. Okay. So I am curious to hear because I know another hat buttons, Hoppy becomes win. One of the parents starts dating again, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. A whole new dynamic into the situation. So what kinds of things what kinds of conversations maybe should you be having or how do you even ago she ate the whole topic of dating again, when you're co-parenting, I really think that once we've removed ourselves from the very ten emotional stage of Copan, and we're able to communicate I think the reality is that when you found your, your partner tracked if there's like other people will also in and life goes on, and everyone wants to be in a relationship, someone accepting the reality that they're that your partner, or your ex partner will or may move on. I think is key, but also communicating what that will look like for the both of you, I can tell you just from my experience, just having to have a conversation about what that will look like for us. Meaning that, you know, we probably won't go to dinner as much as we do. Now we probably won't you know. Take family photos. So often now but just respecting the boundaries of the new partner, I think is really important and to know what that will look like for the child just going ahead. And having that proactive conversation with your partner, and what their wishes will be is paramount to moving past the difficult conversations of what it will look. Right. When you add another co parent into that, and just listening to the other co parent, everyone does not want the same thing. There are some situations where they don't want to meet the new partners but it's really up to the co parent, and that parent being able to communicate what their wishes that needs are in have respected by everyone. So I think that's really important, but Secondly also communicating with the child as to what it means to add another apparent to the situation, and making sure that they understand that this new relationship does not eliminate the relationship the established hope parents relationship as already ongoing. But this is just another person that's entering the situation that also has to respect the boundaries that have been set between the Copan, and what are your suggestions council floor win? You even introduce a new person to your child. Do you have thoughts about that recommendations? Just my personal opinion. I am against parents. Introducing children to every partner that they meet that can lead to some computers, as to what relationships look like moving forward for their child. Also just wanting to protect the child from a lot of different energies. A lot of different people their beliefs and their experiences that I mean you bring that into your child's like when you bring it into yours. So I think for me, you know, I recommend and for myself, if you know that there is, this is a very serious relationship. And he's already said if this person you know about. This person you you've met each other families, and you're talking about the Knicks step in life together as a couple, I think, then we start to slowly integrate. Introducing the children to your partner, again, that takes time and, you know, and it will take a lot of explaining to the child that this part is not going to replace your parent. This is just who mommy or daddy are choosing to have intimate relationship with God, you, you already kind of mentioned earlier about, you know, this will end Gina in Serey in Swiss beads and keys, Massana like they seem to have at least with their sharing kind of going step even beyond like collaborative co-parenting where, like it's, you know, everybody is together, and we're gonna make ation together and all of that kind of thing. Do you think that, that is what couples or co parent should be striving to achieve? Or is it just another way that co-parenting relationship can look? I think this just another way that it can. I don't think that, that is for everyone, nor does everyone want that type of relationship. So I again, it's really up to the partners as to what they want their relationship to look like this is very individualized choice and I admire their relationship. But I'm not sure that everyone would be able to maintain or even thriving type of situation in, if you hear their stories they will tell you that it wasn't always that way. It sounds like they started off in a high conflict on co-parenting situation, and they had to navigate through their emotion for them to get to a place where they are now again, not instantaneous. But it requires a lot of attention to your own personal emotions reflection working to get it through, you know, some issues that have been unresolved. But most importantly, I think that, you know, the Keats their situations. They always keep the children I bribe in those situations. And you know. Some may not, but that works well for them. And you just have to choose what situation work best for you. I really appreciate you sharing that because I think sometimes you can have an internal since of shame or other people try to shame, you for maybe not having these idealistic ideas or idealistic pictures of what a co parenting, relationship should be. And I think it's okay like you said to have the relationship look like whatever works for your family. Right. Correct. And, and one thing you know you have to make sure that you're not listening to either family friends, or even media social media as to what works best for you. You know, so, you know again, does all the pains, but they're not in the situation and they may not have the same emotional investment that you have to make sure that your child is thriving. So just making sure that if you would like to receive some feedback that as awesome. But making sure. You don't internalize that in a way that makes you feel like you should be making a different decision than what, you know, you've already established as a good co parent situation for yourself, do think that brings up an interesting conversation about how to get your community like your families in friends, family members and friends kind of bought into the idea of whatever you and your paying your co parent decide the relationship will look like, or the special considerations, or things people should keep in mind about, like how to get the, the community on boy. Yeah. I think you'd have to say abound, res as for me, you know, making very clear when people give me their opinion, I say, thank you, but that's not what are chose to new in this situation. So one, you have to know exactly what you want, and how you wanted to look in communicate that to your partner. Again. This is a co parent situation out of village situation. So just making sure that you and your co parent on the same page before other people's opinions and feedback star to kinda paint that because again, they're not privy to the information that has been disseminated between you and your co parent and, and most of the time, people have, you know, good intentions, but they're not you so setting those boundaries are pretty important. I mean so when someone starts to kinda comment on your situation you being serious third and thing you know, thank you. But this is kind of how we choose to parent are. Child got you. So are there particular resources that you found really helpful for co parents to either read or videos to watch like what kinds of things that you think could be helpful for somebody navigating co-parenting situation there blog called a single mother survival God that I find really helpful some very helpful tips on that. But as far as books, I really, really recommend a book called co-parenting the black girl guides to co-parenting by data. Joel, I think this book is very well, written. It's very short read, but it, it gets down to the point. Also, we don't wanna leave out the parents, who or the Copan in relationships, where we have one partner who wants to have a positive co parent relationship, and then the other part of who isn't an invested that invested in creating that type of relationship and some of those situations do it is. And so there's a book called co-parenting with the toxic ex that I find somewhat helpful to help the parents who really want to create a positive. Relationships and navigate and really pay control of how to manage a co parent relationship when the other parents, not as involved or invested and then again as co parenting with the toxic X by Amy Baker and Paul fine. I think that's very helpful will that we can use those particular situations. So let's touch on a little bit too 'cause. Yeah, don't want us to leave that out. So that's a great resource. But I also wants to hear from you what kinds of gestures you would have. I mean because like we said, we have kinda spent primarily this time talking about, if both people on board. Right. But what if the other partner is not on board? Or maybe you are really excited about it and really want to make it work. And then the other person is not. So what kinds of suggestions, would you have their one Joan get frustrated because the other co parent doesn't want the relationship that you want. And I think that's key because I'm sure we all want to create a positive experience for our child. But there are some co parent who aren't ready for. That so for you to kind of lead by example, I know it's always hard for us when we are the more mature one to always take the high road. But again, this is not about us, this is about the child, and so making sure we don't get involved in that trap of kind of confusion, and chaos that some co parents, create by not wanting to have a positive relationship. But again, staying focused on what can I do in this situation to maintain a positive relationship with my child and again, that would probably go back to one of those Copernicus out where you have a parallel co-parenting situation where you parent the child on your time, and how you fit as long as healthy, and it's not abusive, and I will cope here, you know, the way that I choose my time. So maybe having a separate Copernicus situation may be the best readjust to save your sanity in making sure that you don't become emotional at every exchange or every communication. That you have with the co parent. Yeah. 'cause I would imagine that, that still 'cause down on the conflict. Right. So even though, ideally, you may want a situation where both of you are involved in making decisions together. And that kind of thing if that can't happen, then, like you said, just making sure that both people are parenting, in a way that's not abusive and not harmful maybe better than trying to like work towards getting it where you're on the same page. Absolutely. It, it goes back to accepting the reality of the situation that you're in, you know, you may want something different. But the reality is, you know, you may be co-parenting with someone who doesn't want the same co-parenting style issue. And that's okay. But how do you make that work with, you know, making sure that your child is happy perfect? So where can our listeners find you towns with your website as well as your social media handles? Okay. So my website is WWW dot K licks, and it. C. A L, Y, X, psychological dot. Com and I finally have an Instagram. So. The Instagram handle is C, A, L, Y, X, psychological, and it's the same on Facebook, psychological perfect. And of course, all of that will be in this show knows where people can find you easily, when thank you so much for chatting with us, again, Dr town, so I appreciate it. No probably, thank you for inviting me again. I'm so grateful. Dr towns was able to join us again today to learn more about her or her practice. Visit the show notes at therapy for black girls dot com slash session. One eleven in don't forget to share your takeaways with us either own Twitter or in your ide- stories, using the hashtag TV g in session. Don't forget to show some support for our sponsor for this episode natural issues natural issues is the world for his vegan, high-performance hair care line that the livers the results of twelve products in only three, you can find the products and over twelve hundred Sally stores nationwide, and you can also get ten percent off your purchase online by going to Sally, beauty dot com, and using the promo code five five five five five five at checkout. Next week. I'm hosting the inaugural black girl. Clinician collective our BG. See, see as it's officially known retreat, myself in thirty other black women, therapists will be heading to South Carolina, to learn strategies to take our practices to the next level into build and strengthen our relationships with one another. I'm super excited as this is my first major event, and I wanted to make sure to think I generous sponsors for making it possible. First bouncer is Kelly maranda of Zinni me Kelly maranda provide private practice training in coaching by two therapists for heartfelt business owners who care you can find out more about them in their services, as Zinni me dot com. Our next Bonsor is the gut institute. If you've been listening to the podcast for a minute, then, you know, that the books by doctors John and Julie got Mun often come highly recommended by our guest, there biz the mission of the gunman institute is the retail of families in order to help create and maintain greater love in health in relationships. They're committed to an ongoing program of research that increases the understanding of relationships in as to the development of interventions that have been carefully evaluated is their goal, to make services accessible to the broadest reach of people across race, religion class culture sexual orientation, and ethnicity you can learn more about the work done at the government institute at Gottmann dot com. And our third sponsor is thank you think if it is a software platform that enables entrepreneurs to create market sale, and deliver their own online courses their mission is no less to revolutionize the way people. Learn and earn online by giving them the Tuesday need to turn their expertise into a sustainable business that impacts them and their audience you can learn more about their amazing platform at think dot com. In a course, all of the information will be shared inertia note. If you wanna learn more about the sponsors for the retreat, you'll be able to find all of it at their people black growth dot com. Class session. One eleven if you're looking for therapists in your area, don't forget to check out our directory, at therapy for black girls dot com slash directory into continue this conversation with other sisters who listen to the podcast. Come on over in. Join us in the thrive tribe, which is the Facebook community for our five you can request a joint at therapy. For black girls dot com has tried and be sure to answer the three questions that are asked to gain entry think y'all so much for joining me again, this week, a Luke forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take care.

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DARIAN TOWNS: WHAT REALLY HAPPENED --8

A TRUE SIDE OF CRIME

19:45 min | Last month

DARIAN TOWNS: WHAT REALLY HAPPENED --8

"To be back here with CIDERS. We had a really exciting week last week our first. Youtube video. When it was on the case of Evelyn Hernandez? If you listened to the podcast before you know that we've covered Evelyn Hernandez a couple episodes back. I decided to put this one on video which I want to start doing my shorter episodes. This week our website is dropping. The link for that will be in the show notes. I am very excited to have youtube in our podcast in one spot. We have some things going on in the works and I am super happy. I can't wait to be able to share that with you guys once we get everything no down. If you have any show. Suggestions please either email me my email is in the show notes or go ahead and send me a message on facebook or instagram I hope everybody is safe and healthy. I know we never expected to be self quarantining for this long. But we are doing it and the longer we stay self quarantine guys. The quicker those numbers will go down. So please stay safe, keep your family safe and healthy. Today, we are going to be talking about the case of Darien Brittany towns a twenty three year old woman whose life ended abruptly a month before she was to be married and nobody seems to know why or what actually happened to her. So let's get right in dairying Brittany. Towns was born on September twenty fires Nineteen ninety-three in New Orleans Louisiana to donal endangering towns daring had many siblings, and at some point, the family move from Louisiana to Memphis Tennessee where dairying started school dairying would end up selling in long distance running. She was an amazing cross country athlete while in high school at White Station High. She ranked seventh and ninth in the state for long distance running. She when she graduated in two thousand eleven, she had a scholarship take Xavier University and Savior is a really good college on Louisiana. It is HP cu. Which means? Black College if you're aren't aware with that is is colleges that were set up a very long time ago when black people were not allowed to go to. The college that white people went these colleges were established. These colleges are not open to any and everyone as long as you meet the criteria for your grades. Sat extracurricular rain was talented ags aviator she sailed in cross country dairying gets injured. Xavier to the point that she couldn't run cross country. So she came home, but she does not let that stop her she ends up enrolling. In Paul Mitchell Beauty College. At this point she reconnects with a buddy from high school. And they begin to date. This guy's name is Trevor Rosenberg. They ended up becoming engaged and they were to be married on August fifth of two, thousand seventeen. They were a happy couple. If you look at during social media, they're a Lotta pictures of them together. You can just see love in there is air. So happy I saw photo of her shared online of her at a bridal shop in her wedding dress and her bridesmaids in their dresses. She looked so happy in the summer of two, thousand, seventeen daring lost a friend from high school and as people do during times of law, she reconnected with some people that she went to high school with. They weren't necessarily in the same friend group in high school but they were friends of her friend and they grew close because that's what lost does says it brings US close on July third two, thousand, seventeen daring was having a pretty normal day she fixture. She was going to get fireworks because the next day was the fourth of July. She went to visit with her mom so she meets up with her friends and she drives everybody to the Pool Party at a man named trays house in Trae is known in the Bartlett Memphis area for throwing really epic party something happened after they got that party and it would change so many lives during his found face down at the Bottom of the Pool I, we're GonNa talk about the Fisher. Narrative, the Party started about eleven thirty I'm not sure what frames got there. If it was at eleven thirty or later Darren was Happy Mingling with our friends at one fifty five sitting on the deck with two unnamed females when another unnamed female walked out to the pool area. In saw Darren face down at the bottom at this point trae call at this point. Nine one one and unnamed female pulls during out of the water and performed CPR tell the Bartley fire department arrived on scene transforms officers that people at the party had been drinking since about eleven thirty party started in that he wasn't sure how long during was at the bottom of the pool at this point during Fiance Trevor's called in daring is transported to saint. Francis. Hospital. where she is put an ICU. She passes later on that evening. A little after. Five PM. While daring, which drowning a man stole her car. Now that is the weirdest thing to me. This woman is drowning and she somebody just comes and steals her car and it wasn't like it was a party attendee who saw commotion and saw what was going on and went out in season opportunity. This is a random man just stole her car. That super area to me. We're going to talk about the man who threw the party because he plays a major role. Later, on in some of the theories trae I'm not going to give his last name because we don't know what's going on around one you buy your harass them. At the time of the party was forty year old man who lived in home that was owned by his grandmother. His family has money and we all know with money come. Some kind of power reports said he was improperly questioned. Was it because His family had money. Maybe there's also a rumor that he sued the Police Department prior and he won, but I could not substantiate the information at all one thing about traits he has a pretty long rap sheet there charges from drugs to death probation violations and a couple are unspecified, which if I look at the order in the days of the other ones, it seems that he was just underage sell. Those records are sealed reports say he wasn't properly questioned now there is another narrative that has been rumored by people at the Party and probably people who weren't at the party also, and that's what we're going to get into next. It is a narrative that that flips everything pretty much on his. Head so we know that daring was invited by a friend who was told by trade to invite her. So for whatever reason, try wanted during the party Dan Arrive at the party with the friends that she had reconnected with to her friend's death I want to let everybody I've seen a lot of conversations online about why her fiance didn't protect her. Why he will let this happen. He was not there guys. He was at work at night. So there's nothing he could have done and I'm sure that he beat yourself up about that. Constantly he lost the woman. He thought he was gonNA live the rest of his life with. Okay. So at upon Dan's arrival at the party, it has been said that. trae kind of orbited around her he wanted to be in her presence and. I mean there was a young beautiful smart woman. So that's not surprising but she was not interested in him. Obviously, she was about to be married. She wasn't interested in any of that. She had actually told her family that this was the last outing that she was going to go to before she started focusing on our wedding starting her family bone her career just getting her life where she wanted it she loved her fiance and had no interest in any other main in trae didn't want except that she wasn't interested in him. It was also. Suggested that since her fiance was white, he knew she wasn't opposed to dating white men and he thought he had a chance with her which doesn't make sense because just because somebody days somebody your nationality or your rights doesn't mean that they want to date you they're dating that person they're not dating a whole like race of people. That's a weird concept. So that's what he thought. That is so flawed and he became aggressive with At some point he encouraged everybody to go in house and make some drinks when people started to trick allow. They saw him staring into the bottom of the pool and that's when. A woman saw Darrien. At the bottom of the pool, not moving, pulled her out and began to perform CPR, and that's when the narrative for that night kinda coincides with the police report because obviously at that point, it's the police and. The Fire Department, telling the story. So you Kinda can't argue that it is actually what happened with this theory somebody called Isaiah to steal daring car. Now. This is all alleged is all rumors here say I can't substantiate if this is true. Why hasn't anybody come forward? Is it because of intimidation allegiance money We don't know and we may never know there were over twenty people at this party and somehow nobody. Could give the police a complete cohesive story that they believed. That's crazy to me. What is the likelihood that at the time somebody is drowning that their car would just randomly be stolen by random stranger that just doesn't sound logical to me at all out. Some people believe it was just a tragic accident she tripped and fell into the pool or she had been drinking and she fell into the pool. And drowned. Now I was given a theory by a gentleman who follows this case this theory would explain why nobody saw her fall in the pool are released. All Hirsch like struggling on top of the pole we would think about when somebody We hear some address and this. Is What is called entrapment or entanglement. It happens generally WANNA polls. Great. is damaged or worn and becomes crack in this causes suction to be strong enough to suck somebody's hair down into literally a body part bathing sue anything like that. One Study showed that a forty pound ball was sucked down into the into the bottom of a pool in it. Needed four hundred pounds of pressure. To get it up. That is a lot of pressure is possible that she was swimming in her hair got sucked down in area got stuck. Or maybe a piece of her swimming suit from the research that I did also most of the time, not all the time. Most of the time people noticed that the person was struggling at the bottom of the pool. Or the being sucked down and they tried to help now, they generally could not get that person up. As I said before it took four hundred pounds of pressure to get a forty pound ball. Up and out of the water now, the police report says that only one woman pulled Darren out of the water and if he. took a lot of pressure poorer out I'm not sure how she would have been able to pull her out a loan and there was no mention by the woman or anybody else that daring hair will stuck or anything else will stuck at the bottom of the pool or that she had a hard time pulling daring an out of the pool. So I don't know it. This is still possible and maybe she by the time that somebody saw her she was far enough away that it didn't cause a problem or because Darren was such a small stature woman, the lady was. Able to pull how easy there also was a lawsuit against trade and his family from the towns and I feel like their lawyer would have looked into this or should have looked into this and had to pull inspected, and if there was an issue with the pool that would have made them liable for her death because they did not properly maintenance there pull i. Could not find any evidence of this. So I don't know because we just don't know what happened also possibility but I don't think it's a very likely possibility but you know that I like to cover anything that might have happened. She could have been intoxicated in fell into the pool and drowned one nobody saw her drown and that always sticks out to me like. If she just fell in drought. Everybody was out there. Somebody would have saw something. But. She was intoxicated. She fell into the pool she drowned and nobody noticed because they were drinking musical is going to I don't believe this number one I feel like if her emmy report came back in her toxicology report came back and said that she was drunk the police would have been like, okay we know what happened. She was drunk it was an accident she fell into the pool case closed her cases not even considered accident. Her case is still open and they consider an incident to happen daring is she die at the hands of jealous man? Did. She fall into the water because she was intoxicated. Did she get sucked? into a drain. We don't know and we may never know of the people at this party do not come forward. So when I first was introduced to dairy in case, I saw shared on facebook it was shared the initial protests George Floyd's murder was. Going on and it was shared. In a during. The Times. The initial protests for George Floyd's murder was. Going on and it was shared. In A. I don't want to say group, but it was shared amiss other stories that were about black people in America dying and not being properly looked into. But these cases were generally this person died because of their race it was because they were black after speaking to Daria sister. Danielle who was gracious enough to talk to me about her sister and Kinda give me some more insight into who she was and. What? They think might have happened to her I realized that this case was not about racism and that's how it's been shared in a lot of places I found website that talk about how she died because she was at this wall. All White Party. And these people weren't her friends. You can't trust white people in the and blaming her fiance I've seen ones that say that she deserved what she got because she was black. So people have. Polarized the death of this young woman down to her race, and it is more than that. She was more than that. She was more than just a black woman. She was a young black woman that was getting married who starting starting to live her that American dream that we all look for. She was starting that and we need to pay more attention to the story. I know the people that shared the story did not share it. And mean to misrepresent, but it causes us to not look at the real issue. In this case, the issue of why her case isn't solved and I don't believe her cases and solve because she's black her cases and solve because nobody will come forward and tell the truth because nobody. Will give the police that evidence are the statements that they need. The police need help to solve dairy case whether it is a case of outright murder or it was a case of an accident, they need the information. So her family can get closure because they deserve that Darian deserves that I don't believe during death was intentionally. Believe that when she got there somebody intended to end her life but I do not believe. That this avid swimmer that this woman who had to drive herself in her friend's home will so intoxicated that she fell into the water I cannot believe that that is the case of Darien Britney towns. If you have any information or know anything about the death of Darien Britney towns call the Bar Police Department at nine, zero, one, three, eight, five, five, five, five, the family has a facebook page for Darren called Justice for daring share her story, and when you do use the Hashtag justice for Darien don't forget to subscribe to our podcast on whatever platform you get your podcast. Follow us on instagram and twitter like us on facebook and join our true side of crime podcast group page on facebook subscribe to a true side of crime. On Youtube don't forget our website is dropping this week. and has always continue to be the amazing league. Beautiful people always are you Tony

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Canadas role in Venezuela

The Current

18:50 min | 8 months ago

Canadas role in Venezuela

"In the fall of nineteen ninety eight an elderly woman known as the Cat Lady went missing. She had a very Very Distinctive Silhouette and very recognizable. When so you're walking into town a handkerchief on her hair long overcoat like somebody that lived on the street? All police could find were thirty. Thirty cats shot dead. I always knew something happened to her disadvantage like that uncover the cat lady case from CBC ABC podcasts. This is a CBC podcast. Hi I'm Matt Galloway. This is a podcast from January. Twenty eighth edition of the current it from a video posted on twitter those are supporters of one Guido as he landed in Ottawa yesterday today for a meeting with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau quite oh is on an international tour trying to drum up support for his movement to push Nicholas Maduro out of the President's office in Venezuela it was just over a year ago that one Guido declared himself interim president following national elections widely considered to be fraudulent. Canada was among the countries that lined up to recognized as the legitimate head of government. But in the year since it's become clear that Maduro is still in charge yesterday Canada's Foreign Affairs Minister Francois leaps. Sean Pan reiterated his support for change. You have to look at the economic hardship that people are living. You have to look at the environmental disaster that is going on now with the illegal mining of goal you have to look at the humanitarian crisis. That is going on. We think that there will be about six million displaced by the end of the year. So everything that we're seeing Suggests that we should redouble our efforts. The solution needs to come from the region. We will work with the region but I think the president would tell you that with Canada support We're GONNA look ahead to restore democracy in Venezuela granny as a professor of political science. It says Francis Xavier University and Anti Jewish Nova Scotia professor. Yes Sir Good Morning. Good morning one. Guido has been on this world tour. In Britain Spain Davos at the World Economic Forum. He surprised that he rolled into Canada. This week no because Canada is very important country and is sort of international coalition of supporter Canada was very instrumental in creating thing that Lima group in two thousand seventeen. That has a number of countries of the region An including Canada of course and They are pushing for transition the peaceful transition to democracy in Venezuela. And so I think We candidates very important ally of Mr Guido Right now. Remind US why. Canada chose to back him. What was the argument for supporting an opposition leader in saying that he was the legitimate president of Venezuela? Well well I think what happens. Is that first of all Democracy human rights is part of Michigan in foreign policy. But of course our our record these pretty spotty And in this particular case I think that there was this Sense that we could have a wind there. This is a good place to showcase our push push for. Democracy and human rights in his country has a democratic tradition tradition certainly by Latin American standard. And this is the country. Also where are you had a democratic Sort of force pushing for change And force that had in fact institutional support because that that Legislative Assembly With was still is formed by Individuals who were elected in free and fair elections and that body elected Mr Guido The interim president he didn't appoint himself and so in the context where the situation is getting from worse to worse with Humanitarian Crisis Refugee and so on and so far it becomes really regional even international crisis. There was an opportunity there. I think for Canada to say not. Only we support these principles in general but we actually have the option of doing something concrete in order to push for some kind of process. Yes that would be a maiden Venezuela process Where within Venezuela itself he would have some actors who would push for using the constitution to organize free and fair elections in that way Instead of going down and you know In in more and more crisis that maybe the country could start looking up and Dan restore democracy and start fixing some of the economic problems in the country as well. You have a shortage of food if medicine EH people really starving there You mentioned Mr Shopping. Mentioned six million displaced Mo- you have at least five million refugees all in the the region and so it is seen as a sort of a crisis and at the same time as an opportunity For Canada to actually do something that may very well work now. It didn't didn't work as quickly. I think the anticipate that the crew. It was going to say I mean what did one guy to accomplish in the year since He swore himself within. Well I think he accomplished a lot and at the same time. Not Enough A lot in the sense that he's still touring and he's receive as the interim president which is kind of interesting interesting when you think if it's not something that happens too often that you have in fact to defacto precedents in the country and right now even three legislatures so it's sort of extraordinary that he maintain Some public support although his public support according to polls. I don't know what to make some of these bowls but apparently not lost some of his popularity and But he's still a fairly popular politician Where the problem is with the strategy like this I? I think it's supposed to work pretty quickly. It's not like the old form of constructive engagement where you know you have relations with a country. That is Dick Dettori will and once in a while you talk about democracy and human rights but you have no expectation of changing anything anytime soon you know like when you think about our relations when numbered with a number or of Middle Eastern country where there might not be democratic force pushing for a change where there might not be a crisis so there's a sense that things will not change anytime soon but in this this case I think that it's sort of a stain. Ah May right now and there are a lot of moving parts In the army the support within the army the different sectors. There's in the army pouring players as well like Russia. Russia is playing a very important role. So it's not impossible that Mr Guido could Still that'd be successful in the next month or this year but certainly it's been a stalemate for at least a ten months now this involvement of Canada in this and you mentioned Lima Group and Christopher in the former foreign affairs minister was very vocal in wanting candidate to take a lead role in this. This isn't supported uniformly across the country. I'm certainly not by everybody. Who is elected? Ottawa have listened to Heather McPherson. She's the NDP's deputy foreign affairs critic. What concerns me? Most is the idea that it by meeting with. The Prime Minister is actually taking aside and is sort of putting his nose where it doesn't belong this is something that the Venezuelan people have to do. They have to make a decision on how they're going I to move forward. This move really doesn't help matters the end ep have always said Venezuelan families. Have the right to choose their president not foreign countries. What do you make of the argument that Canada and the Prime Minister certainly should not have taken aside that his nose is being put into a place that it doesn't belong? I think there's no contradiction between on one hand supporting Mr Guada- as interim president and at the same time supporting at peaceful transition to democracy and Vincent argument the argument though the candidates involved in something that that we have no business and being involved in her point that this should be left to to the Venezuelan people. Yeah but again like I sort sort of disagree with this because it one is not excluding the other option you have like fifty plus countries and Lima Group. The Vatican was involved all kind. Kind of countries are involved in different ways and Clearly candidates not seen as neutral but at the same time. If you have an option to have let's see the an open free and fair election in which perhaps Mr Madurai can be one of the candidates so we like to say we support. Guido doesn't mean we think that should be the president for now and ever. It's just I think the way I understand it. The Canadian position is that there should be free and fair elections for president for the legislature. The state's sweeter and Mr do is just part of that. We'll leave it there. It's good to speak with you this morning. Thank you have a good week. Yvonne is a political science professor. Eh Francis Xavier University who specialized in Latin American politics for years. Men were disappearing from Toronto's Gay village. I feel feel terrorized. I'm Justin Lee this season on uncover obesity. This is happening. How can you not see this? They suspected serial. Oh killer and they were right. Police arrested sixty-six-year-old Bruce Macarthur. But this wasn't the first time in the village was targeted. You don't start start killing at sixty six. You'd start killing when you're in your late teens. Early twenties uncover the village available. Now wherever you get your podcast Nicholas. Maduro has held his ground in Venezuela despite an economy that is in free fall on the streets of the capital Jelica. Varela doesn't have a a lot of hope. She works as a house. Cleaner lives and a Dhaka slum with her husband and one year old cable to see them eat a normal. When I go out I see things I want to buy for my son? I can't buy shoes or clothes. I would like to take my son to play ground to know other things but if I take him then I have nothing to buy food with if I start buying shoes for my boy. I won't get food. He Gumbo Mobile numbers on. Burkle near Boise with on if I could I would leave this country because it's just terrible being here and even worse when you have no-one enough amplio. Mattie and human is is a lecturer in political science at the University of Oxford who has studied the Venezuelan opposition movement movement. Good morning to you. Good morning we heard a description. There of what life is like in Caracas. The professor earlier saying that the situation has gone from worse to worse. How would you describe? Describe the economic situation for the average person in Venezuela right now right so for the average person is really dramatic rate so the the audio on basically represents life of ordinary Venezuelans. It is true that in the capital city in Caracas. Some people from the remaining middle class or the high higher class economic upper class have access to dollar ice goods so they're living somewhat of a of an okay life if you wanna say that the rest of the country so outside of the life of ordinary citizens involve Gas cuts power cuts Lack of You you know Money to buy goods You know children are not going to school. The hospitals have collapsed so you must think of the Venezuelan population Asian of also population on that is struggling to get by day by day. So it's true too dramatic and that's why as you've discussed earlier. The refugee crisis has increased on. And that's why it's also been very hard to mobilize and to enact regime change because the humanitarian emergency is really dramatic It helped me understand that. Because if things are as bad as they are how much is support. Is there still in Venezuela for Nicholas Maduro according to Paul's across polling enterprises modo still has around fifteen to twenty percent support So that of course you know takes into account the region. We don't know yet what people would have said if this was a democratic system so if away from repression and away from the clandestine antagonistic networks. That worked to repress them to control the population particularly the poor We don't know how people would actually CAST their opinion The rest of the of the population so the remaining eighty percent look at positive either because the partisanship is very low so opposition parties around four to eight percent and fifty percent depending on stone. Identify with a party on that side One way they'll still has around forty to fifty percent of support last year. He had sixty percent of support of the population. Of course you know the longer longer lasts. Obviously the leadership gets caught into on you know Difficulties with maintaining his support. I guess I'm just still trying to understand if things are as bad as we're hearing they are. How do you explain the lack of momentum for one Guido he arrived in the last year Swearing himself thin. There seemed to be momentum and that momentum seems to have fizzled wise that the case if things are as bad as they are right I mean The the figures speak for themselves right. So let's look at the politics off the situation when you have a population that is every day looking to buy food or medicine to get by. Obviously it's very hard to care It's not the Venezuelans. Don't care about the politics of the country. But you're you're now really engaged in your material survival right so but the middle class and the upper classes that are still mobilize them and especially they asked her are trying to You know get the message across now. Why haven't we seen averaging change So far I guess there. There are several explanations. One this is. This is a modern autocratic regime. Right so my little still has the control of the territory Tori even though he shares some of up part of the of the territory I e controls the military And this is this is a fact and this obviously doesn't allow for our political change so far so this is a breezy A. D. mobilize if you're like de Mobilized Control Society and it's very Risky to go outside then. Of course you have the side of the opposition They'll have momentum and he he's now regaining momentum and that's really important Based on international tour. But Not really. What's important is to organize the population at home and to bring a message of a realistic political change through elections so I guess the internal divisions divisions within the opposition over the last year? They didn't help either. I'm to really push for a realistic on negotiated exit. I WANNA play another other clip from that young we heard from at the top of the segment here is what Angelica said about the political situation also ugh. I wouldn't vote for anyone eve. Mother would always the precedent. He shouldn't be looking out for himself. He would see. The people suffering children turn on the streets eating from the garbage people struggling inside of hospitals. I wouldn't vote for anyone. I rather stay like this. No that the typical is that attitude when it comes to how Venezuelan see not just politics but the politicians who could represent them. I think that ah her sentiment is representative over large part of the of the population. You know For the middle classes or the upper classes the symbolism off the opposition or the momentum quite a very important But for those who are struggling to get by. Obviously this means nothing. If it doesn't bring real change I am so that's why I think it's important that way. They'll or part of his discourse internationally has been to increase the support on the financial support of the international community for the humanitarian system so far Venezuela is not receiving as much as other humanitarian crisis worldwide. So I think that to you get Ordinary by on board. They would have to see that. The opposition is an alternative and that even without The political critical change that will it will take some time until the transition Minnesota even until then if they can get something say humanitarian assistance. That Dad woke Galvanized the support ordinary citizens for the cost of democracy again. Just a couple of quick questions before I let you go. One is given the fact that Nicolas Maduro continues to hang around around. Is there a point at which one Guido gives up on this effort to take over M. given what's happened over the last year well I don't think he will Give up a specially especially now after he you know he has gotten the support. I think that the most important thing right now is to really change to strategy of last year. So if I we're the ones to Pursue political change now. It's time to do real realistic work. And I think it's very positive for example that yesterday on in Canada he said that Cuba needs to be part of the solution and solution and this is something that he would have never set for example last year because of the internal struggles within the opposition right the hardliners. I don't want to negotiate the hardliners. Want to consider any other options so I think that the realistic on discourse that he trying to put on the table now will be out awful just briefly then what would successful Venezuela look like to you I think now success would mean that people would feel an obligation to their humanitarian communitarian. A crisis I think that the discourse of needed to be more based on reconciliation negotiation. So that the day after basically the democratic accreditation process can be East up From the executive I think that coming together again as a nation will be very important to re construct the country EH Marion Jimenez. We'll leave it there. It's good to speak with you. Thank you Marian. Human as a lecturer at the University of Oxford who has studied the Venezuelan opposition Movement for more C._B._C.. PODCASTS GO C._B._C.. Dot C._A. Slash podcasts.

Venezuela Mr Guido Canada President Nicholas Maduro interim president professor Prime Minister Ottawa Matt Galloway University of Oxford Nicolas Maduro Lima group twitter Justin Trudeau Francis Xavier University and lecturer
Taking a Step Back with Ana Wagner- CR65

Career Relaunch

31:03 min | 1 year ago

Taking a Step Back with Ana Wagner- CR65

"My tasks or projects but I have to like what I do most of the time otherwise it's miserable career relaunch the podcast dedicated to helping you reinvest I'm going to find something really like analogy live by the rule that I have to like what I do with the seventy percent of the time I'm not going to like all of my bosses are Michael Workers are all every single one slash sixty five on spoke with me from Detroit Michigan Okay Good morning and welcome to career relaunch it's great to have you on the little delayed getting this episode out the door September tends to be one of my busiest months and I've been doing a lot of public speaking lately and I actually completely lost not once but twice in her career will discuss how a career setback can actually be a blessing in disguise and also help you clarify your true priorities in life afterwards the voice last week so thanks for your patience and I'm back up and running now before we get started today I just wanted to make a quick event announcement for those of you based long term strategic direction for the automotive parts segments she's spent most of her career in the automotive and chemical industries in positions ranging from engineering truly enjoy your professional life in each episode feature people who've decided to step off the beaten path to reinvent their careers and do work that matters we talk through their unique tomorrow development to marketing strategy she has a bachelor of Science Degree in industrial engineering from Xavier University in Bogota Colombia and an MBA from the university. You can check out the full agenda and register at I W I B Dot Co Dot U. K. all the early bird tickets are already gone but some regular ticket demystify what it's really like to get laid off and out of bounce back from career setbacks in general you can get all the show notes from today's episode at Career Relaunch Dot net on on the show because even though she's remained in broadly the same industries she's gone through some experiences that allow her to share some unique perspectives to help Michigan now if you're a longtime listener to relaunch you're probably notice I most often talk with people who have made a major role or industry shift but in this case I wanted to get it's still remain again that's I W I B dot Co dot UK okay onto today's interview where I'm speaking with Ana Wagner a mom of in London on November the twenty first I'm going to be speaking at the inspiring women in business conference hosted by management today aimed at businesswomen looking to two teenagers a wife and a proud native Colombian currently working as global segment director at PPG where she's responsible for driving global alignment and defining fashioned visibility and build a reputation other speakers that day will include Dolphin CEO of the stylist group Rebecca Tully managing director of accent stories the challenges they overcame and the lessons they learned along the way to help you understand what it takes to relaunch your own career today my guest is going to share her story of being laid off here's products division and Rene Elliott CEO of planet organic if you're interested in attending the conference which will be held at the Hilton London in Canary Wharf take their next step in their careers. I'm going to be giving a short talk about how to become a person of influence where I'll be sharing a few simple tips on how to raise your pre you've been through and also how you've managed through some of the trade offs you've had the make with each of your career moves but I was hoping you could start us off by just telling me what's been keeping you oh I Joseph thanks for having all right well I am hoping to talk through a few things with you today including some of the career transitions busy in your career Andrew Life the past few weeks so I work in B. Two B. Market Strategy and so I've been very busy traveling the world his mental fuel I'll address a listener's question about how long to hang on to an unsatisfying job in the so first off I just wanted to say I'm you also just got back from Columbia is that right that's right my native Colombia was there attending My high school reunion okay very cool well let's actually it's been a lot of travel and juggling with a couple of teenagers so I worked for a big company in the chemical space and so that's a takes a lot of my time okay and Detroit in that role I am responsible for the long term strategy of the segment as well as global alignment between the regions. Okay now start with what you're doing right now you mentioned the work that you're doing you're at PG industries what exactly do you do there as global segment director and maybe we'll start yeah I'd like to jump all the way back in time and then go through your career history so as I global segment director in charge of a segment which is the automotive parts and accessories motive engineer working and then we can move forward from there yes absolutely so yeah I I have an Undergrad in industrial engineering and that's how I started at Ford Motor Company company had been spun off as a very large company and then in two thousand and four it was facing decisions in terms of downsizing I happened to be eight months liked to go back in time because it I also know that you started off in the automotive industry as an automotive engineer could you just tell us about your time when you started off as an he's functional coatings for automotive parts that go directly into companies that actually part sport bottom would have called the tiers the tier suppliers sitting at my desk and somebody came tap me on the shoulder to meet to a conference room where HR Talk to me and give me a folder and told me I had a few minutes to pack up is there for almost eight years and what happened at year eight what what exactly happened that resulted in you moving on from this Yod the listen I'm interested in I guess I'm first of all interested in what it was like to get that very sudden tap on the shoulder like that exact moment when that happened and okay and how has maternity leave for you it was really nice but at the same time out was really invested in my early thirties I would have a job as I had mentioned that if you weeks before but then one day they had massive layoffs hundreds of people got laid off on a Friday morning I'll never forget I was eight months pregnant also interested in what it was like to be eight months pregnant and getting tap on the shoulder I was gonna say it's horrible pregnant or not but it's even more horrible might have affected you at that very moment yes so I actually almost went into Labor that day that day was very very difficult I almost went into Labor that day thankfully I didn't Senate and I had mentioned to my boss that I wanted to take long maternity leave which was something that the company offered us a benefit to take up to a year you wouldn't come back to the same job spent some time with your newborn baby and at the same time as a professional it's hard not to think about time passing professionally you're pregnant you're a woman you're Hispanic there's no way it happened and the aspect of being pregnant I know that I mean my wife has been through maternity leave and even I took a little bit of a paternity leave and on the one hand I know it's really nice to hi thanks here so box so they escorted me out of building while so that that's just like just like what you see in the movies pretty much I guess there's a couple aspects of and I guess in your case you had not yet had a job that you knew you were going to go back to how did you think through getting back into the workforce right before I guess you're about a month out from delivery did that I'm guessing that must have affected your psyche at that moment and I'm wondering how Weiss's miserable and so then I think from our conversation before you ended up moving into the chemicals industry is correct yes the baby was born too early but it was very upsetting it was very upsetting but especially at the beginning but then within a few days I said okay this is a good opportunity through that which was really really helpful and they started you know searching for the right thing what did you end up uncovering as the next chapter in your career as yeah I thought for sure I was going to retire from there so I really adjusted that view and Kim I'm going to find something I really like now live by the rule that I have to like what I do at least seventy the attitude really changed though on how I was viewing my job really really changed while before I define myself by my title and the company I worked for when I entered four I was really afraid of missing out on what was happening in the workplace and missing out on skills may be gaining on connections and trying to get back into the workforce later in the chemical industry for about four years and so you think you'll go through this layoff thing once and that's great experience then you learn well seven years later I got laid off again when you're not expecting it so interestingly enough about three weeks before I had had a performance review was outstanding and I had been told I was a high potential employees and oldies I win to go back cow to reenter so I did give myself six months I said I wanNA give myself six months to really enjoy the baby and enjoy hood and adjust to the baby this was our first baby I have to now so I gave myself the first six months and I thought that was a smart thing the nice thing about being laid off looking to spend a year palm anyway and here it is I got a severance check I'll take this time to to think things through and just actually be with my baby so it and then working out in the at Gatien Company and go through their training and the training starts by really understanding yourself what you'd like to do what your capabilities are and what the right matches are so I so something happened in between I think you know theories after the fact were going around that maybe got the wrong list and maybe somebody was meant to really sit down with him laid off or they've been fired and I'm just wondering sometimes people have a concern about how that plays out in the long run has this had an impact in any way traumatized by the corporate world I found out that I really liked what I was doing in terms of market strategy I wanted to keep on the same line of Business N. SPF. I wanted to take a package but the truth is I got on a list so it's pretty brutal it's pretty Pearl especially when you're not expecting it that morning I was talking to workers there correct did you find that going through the layoff to that effect your job prospects at all in this case it sounds like you made a smooth transition did it ever come up okay and how did that happen on this one was a little bit more expected this was January of two thousand nine in Detroit so if you and the listeners do you feel like it ended up being a baggage on your resume and the reason why I ask is I know that sometimes people listening to this show have gone through situations where they've been a on your career immaterial fashion beyond obviously the disruption sure the beyond the disruption the pain that it is to have to go look for another job eight percent of the time I'm not going to like all of my bosses Michael Workers every single one of my tasks or my projects but I have to like what I do most of the time but no not really and I really was afraid of that especially the first time it happened because you're going to get the question of the gap on your resume and what happened and why did you live authorities were very clear my family was I I was doing a lot of traveling all over the world I was in an environment where there was no working from Home Office was thanks to networking I ended up finding something but having said that it was something it wasn't the perfect job that I needed to to make a living but it wasn't it wasn't I'd like to shift gears her a little bit on and this show is all about career change and we've talked about two situations here where it wasn't your choice to necessarily specs of your life that were important to you can you explain the next chapter of your career when you were at a believe it was guardian industries operations in in a few areas and so they laid a lot of people at the same time in one day also and they ended up losing my job and I couldn't believe it and so they signed my took it get your career my name is Joseph Liu and I'm here to help you gain the clarity confidence and courage to overcome the challenges of making changes to your career so you can do more meaningful work and step down in pay a little bit of a ten fifteen percent pay cut to go there there was a very conscious decision and I'm glad I did what were you trying to remove to begin with and more growth prospects professionally and a place where you could move to maybe different industries within the same company serve different industries within the same company from your professional life and what were you trying to add to your professional life so I was looking for an environment that had a better work life balance culture move on from your job I know later on in your career you actually did make some choices and the choices that you felt were allowing you to prioritize the we won't take this vacation or not but one of the things that goes into the mix is that we are a dual career family and so my husband had and had at the time of here in Detroit I worked for a few years and that was part of a spin off from Ford Parts Division of Ford Spun off a company called Beastie on so all in all what would where I could have more opportunities to move into learn what were your main concerns about taking a pay cut well clearly taking the baker takes a toll on you sure getting laid off the second time you basically find you get what you get and he was two thousand nine tough year two thousand and ten also very tough and so I stayed where I was but I realized it was sure and so I decided to take step down I took a step down in title I had been director at Guardian Industries Sunny went to Dow chemical manager I also took US asset fulltime job so we were in a dual income which was it was a little bit easier to make the

Detroit Michigan director CEO Xavier University Michael Workers Bogota Colombia London PG industries managing director Rebecca Tully Ana Wagner Canary Wharf Rene Elliott Hilton London Andrew Life Columbia Colombia eight months
Entertainment News 07/30/20

Best of The Steve Harvey Morning Show

07:57 min | Last month

Entertainment News 07/30/20

"Did, you know GEICO's now offering an extra fifteen percent credit on car and motorcycle policies? That's fifteen percent on top of what Geico could already save you. So what are you waiting for your teenager to help around the house? Okay. Mom I empty the dishwasher vacuum, the basement and folded the sheets out of the Dryer, what Oh, and next I'm clean Mittens litterbox, some kind of prank show or something. That's a camera is an. There's never been a better time to switch to geico save an extra fifteen percent when you switch by October seventh limitations apply visit Geico, dot, com for details. Today's entertainment news. Tiffany Haddish discussed the idea of motherhood with NBA star. Carmelo Anthony on his podcast tiffany says one thing that scares her is bringing a child into a racist world. Take a listen I'm older now over and people is like begging when you're gonNA have. Bayden. Drafts and babies, and and as a part of me that would like to always make the excuses like, oh, i. need a million dollars in the bank before etc I mean that really is like I would hate to give birth to. Someone that looks like me and then knowing that they're going to be hunted or killed, you know like, why would I put some work through that? She was talking about racism and she went on, you know Carmelo, he's a father. So they kind of talked about you know parenting a little bit and you know being black and she says, there's hope because she participated in black lives matter in the protests. Motions talking about motherhood though very much. I saw she very emotional. I mean you believe it or not. A lot of people feel that way. They do not WanNa bring kids into this racist world. A lot of P-. She's not the only one she did speak. My kids and. I'm back on track down, I? Like having my children on. I'm just very protective and make sure they don't run into the. Role, as much as I can. Put. My kids right. The good thing about it is L- like you said, Carla. She's not hopeless. She does have some hope for the future hope hoping that it'll get better and Maybe. Around and change? Yes. Steve's the deal God would bring it to the world who wants in this world. You can make any statement you to. Everybody got one in his world be in this world. Yeah. But there's a lot of people that feel like are like Shirley say, scared. To be parents. Yeah. So yeah, because it is the hardest job in the world. Comes with no instruction. Label. Once. You put him in that babies seat on the way out. That's. All right. It's time now for tell me something good news. Now, this is according to the black information network at least six H. US received huge donations from Mackenzie Scott, and if that name doesn't sound familiar to you, let me tell you who she is remember. Jeff bezos. Amazon. Right that's his ex wife. So you know she's got Ta Money Okay She's a billionaire billionaires. Anyway, she gave money to Howard Hampton to Ski Morehouse Spelman and Xavier University in Louisiana They all announced that they received millions or eight figure donations from Mackenzie, Scott, the largest in the university's history universities. History University history. That's really great. That is wonderful. That's. Yeah. She gave a lot of money, but she said that when she with a divorce, she says, she was going to give a lot of her fortune away to charity. He did say that. That's awesome. HSBC you. Thank you. Mackenzie. Miss. This baby. Yeah. That's it. No previews as after. Just looking. Over Mile isn't it. All Right Steve. It's time now for today's headlines Miss and trip. Thank you. Thank you, everybody and good morning. This is Andrew but the news, the governor of Oregon. Says it a deal has been worked out everybody for phased withdrawal starting tomorrow of federal troops who've been clashing with protesters in downtown. PORTLAND, for weeks, actually some of those withdrawals actually will start today, those clashes, of course, the mayor and other local officials say. Say were aggravated actually by the feds because of the way they were treating these peaceful protesters. In fact, the American Civil Liberties, Union's asking a judge to sanction those agents over their treatment of journalists and legal observers of the protests however, and testifying before a congressional committee. This week US attorney. General. William Bar defended his decision to send federal troops into Portland. Because he says, it was only one way to look at things. Around the courthouse cannot reasonably be called protest. It is by any objective measure and assault on the government of the United States well, local community leaders in Portland. Say that the push for real changes still now, Kaley Thorn Lab, put a coalition Together. Call reimagined Oregon. It's no surprise that the federal government is using dehumanizing tactics even now s- acquired our protest the late and great John Lewis also marched in peaceful protests for our civil rights and had his head bashed in with the club. The protests have reminded some and taught other people about Oregon's ugly past, for instance, in state constitution back in eighteen, fifty nine. It was stated that blacks were prohibited from living in the state of. Oregon. The Pentagon has announced that it's preparing to withdraw thousands, of American military personnel from Germany, a process expected to cost billions of bucks. But when asked about the mood the president said, he might reconsider if Germany was to quote start paying their bills, it's assumed that trump was referring to NATO fees. The president was in Texas yesterday for fundraiser. He's told reporters that he may give his presidential nomination acceptance speech. Speech at the White House, since the GOP can't hold a traditional nominating convention because of the Corona virus numbers. Meanwhile, another trump loyalist republican congressman, Louie Gohmert of Texas has tested positive for the coronavirus gohmert proudly refused to wear masks finally. Another, Republican, this one. Arkansas state. Senator. Jason. Rapper. Tested positive for the virus the other day also after refusing to wear a mask and calling mandates for masks draconian and covert nineteen a hoax in fact, for the last three months this guy rapper, it's been sharing articles about how quote liberal quacks have been spreading fear and how covert nineteen is the biggest political hoax in history. But yeah, he's got it. Final home going services are being held. Later, this morning for civil rights icon. John Lewis capping almost a week of ceremonies in his native Alabama in Atlanta and the nation's capital. A Congressman Lewis died last Friday at the age of eighty after losing a battle six month battle against cancer services to be held in Atlanta's famed ebeneezer Baptist Church representative Lewis is to be buried at South View cemetery by. The by the way, the eulogy is to be delivered by former. President. Obama an attendance will be Oh foot foreign presidents. Bill. Clinton and former President George Bush. The US has reached another grim milestone authorities now say over one, hundred, fifty, thousand. Americans. Have lost their lives due to covert nineteen and the CEO's of four big tech companies testify before Congress about censorship yesterday. It's time not about bleach president trump standing by a re tweet of an article by doctor named Stella. Emmanuel. From Cameroon. She's living in Texas Dr. Emmanuel said that the Anti Malaria. Drug. Chloroquine by the way as a cure for the virus, she wants said that some medical conditions were caused by demons and witches having sex with humans in their dreams. Now back to the Steve Harvey. Morning, show you're listening to. Harvey? Morning Show.

GEICO Oregon president Mackenzie Scott Steve Harvey Carmelo Anthony PORTLAND Texas John Lewis Tiffany Haddish United States Germany NBA Congressman Lewis Jeff bezos Cameroon Amazon Atlanta
Episode 41: Chance Cutrano On Correcting The Mismanagement of Point Reyes National Seashore

Rewilding Earth

29:19 min | 6 months ago

Episode 41: Chance Cutrano On Correcting The Mismanagement of Point Reyes National Seashore

"Music music. You're listening to the wilding Earth podcast. Immune the rewarding Earth podcast Supported by businesses such as Patagonia Tula and bio habitats as well as the Weeden Foundation and listeners. Like you if you love the work that the rewarding institute is doing please consider donating at rewinding dot? Org and be sure to sign up for our weekly newsletter while you're there chance. Qatrana directs fish in the fields restore point Reyes and oversees the development of the forces of nature and sponsored programs at Resource Renewal Institute. An award-winning environmentalists. Chance brings variety of skills from Public Private and nonprofit sustainability experiences prior to our. I chance was researching food water and energy management policy in Vietnam Rocco and Bolivia chance holds in political science and Philosophy from Saint Xavier University and a masters of public administration. In sustainable management from presidio graduate school. Today I talked with chance about point. Reyes national seashore and the coalition of efforts to protect and restore a beleaguered National Park restore point. Reyes is an effort of The Resource Renewal Institute. Which is where I I work Direct programs restore point Reyes started around Twenty fifteen Right after a massive die off of to yell at Point Reyes National Seashore and our founder who's You know great. Land Conservationists and environmentalists named Huey Johnson founded the trust republic. Land built out the Nature Conservancy He's been running a Resource Renewal Institute and tapped me to SORTA investigate the die off of these to yell and what we found. Is that the die off of to yell out on the national seashore is just the tip of the iceberg of this systemic issue which is a third of that national seashore as a pass speakers on your program have have brought to attention A third of it is dedicated to Agriculture ranching and dairying which is a chronic issue on public lands throughout the West but is particularly acute and a glaring problem at raise national seashore which is a national park so the the actual bars even higher of course for management of those resources in Twenty Sixteen we actually filed a lawsuit the resource or New Institute and to Co plaintiffs the center for Biological Diversity in Western watersheds project in partnership with our Council advocates for the West which which are experts on Grazing issues and other public lands Public Interest Issues out outcome of that. Was this new planning process on the national seashore and that we're still in the middle of that process but that was the the real development of the restore point. Reyes movement was for the first time in forty fifty years out at that national seashore. The public actually had an opportunity to weigh in on a variety of alternative uses envisions for that national seashore and not just maintaining ranching on roughly a third of this Seventy eight thousand Acre peninsula But in addition to that What what would it look like if you could actually restore these relic native coastal prairies and perennial grasslands and coastal scrublands? And so that SORTA. We're in the process of doing this. Why I'm I'M SUPER. Glad to be on this podcast. And we're also continuing to work and advocate to politicians advocate to the park service. Really mobilize support for alternative visions. That really H- you know Herald Point Reyes as the ecological gem That is an could be if it was restored. You know I was just talking to Kim. Brower On the last episode. And and we were talking mainly about issues. That are all back on the heels. You know You know kind of fighting from from behind in terms of just the egregious things that have been happening at point. Reyes and and just saving it from that and we didn't even get the chance to talk about restoration. It took a while to get through all the things these outrageous things that these guys WanNa do to develop a further For the ranching community and their interests ten and I have been on the front lines for years now working on point. Reyes and like a lot of other national parks. It's beleaguered by underfunding Not only as public access inhibited by underfunding but enforcement of leases for The ranchers who actually lease the land out there Is Pretty much nonexistent There's there's a lot of rubber-stamping going on out there and so to date what we found in the worst drought conditions which are only going to get More severe with The climate crisis We've found during dry conditions out at the shore over the last decade overgrazing has contributed to some of the most severe Hydrological issues including soil erosion and very severe nutrient cycling issues with the pollution into waterways. The the water out at point. Reyes national seashore around. Those ranches is Some of the worst water quality in the state of California and it's in a national seashore. And it's in it's water that drains into you know habitat for endangered. Salmon steelhead trout In addition to the only protected marine wilderness on the West Coast which is which used to be farmed for wasters. And they actually Removed the oyster farming. Cancel the permit. It was a big issue About you know in the early twenty twenty tens know now that's a marine protected wilderness and there are still issues with equal form with a nutrient loading from new runoff from these dairy operations and from the is out there. So there's there's some glaring issues but there's I mean there's plenty of opportunity to a mitigation and restore the short. Okay so here's my naievety kicking in thinking that you know and I wonder how many Maybe listeners thinking Doug Jack it's grazing but I just had this fantasy since it was happening on National Park. Land that there were. There were stringent more stringent standards being applied to what the ranchers could and could not do these finer that you and Ken have been exposing to me are really quite surprising. Like it. Sounds like it's exactly the same kinda grazing and run off operation as it would be anywhere else in the country minus a national park. I can't believe that we're having this discussion sometimes and we're still talking about a national park. Yeah and it's it's part of the cultural ethos of you know cowboys and ranching and the West but it's also More nuanced at point Reyes because the ranchers did agree to sell their land and participate in a back model which the National Park Service was doing in the sixties as opposed to you know an domain takeover of of property from private landowners but the the issue that we run into is overtime. There's been more emphasis on cultural resources at point. Reyes national seashore and so not only do they have This thirty thousand acres designated as like a four ranching. There's about twenty roughly twenty four thousand twenty six thousand acres. That's in this past oral zone right in the center of Point Reyes National Seashore and as a result the standards that they they hold. These ranchers to aren't standards that are developed by the Department of the Interior. What we found is their standards from the USDA. And so this isn't this isn't land. That's being managed for the conservation preservation and restoration of ecological values in metric. But it's being managed as ranged land for its productivity As agricultural resource. That just happens to be within a national park unit that's managed by a completely different department within the executive branch. That's where we run into. Some issues is in the last. You know five or six years They decided that all of these ranches They put them on the National Historic Register For this being a historic ranching district and so you have the fact that they're managing it is a range land the fact that it's part of this this historic registrar of properties. And so you need like the park. Service feels compelled to manage the the cultural resources and hold them to like equal to the natural resources even though over the last twenty years. We've found that those two things are not compatible and it was said in congressional testimony from the ranchers that daring on an international part is not compatible with the values of a national park with holding these resources unimpaired for future generations. And that's sort of the quagmire that we're in right now. Is the politicians the special interest groups that we need to protect these cultural resources. The only way that these these barns and historic ranches can can be truly cultural cultural. Resources is if they're still working but it's being done at the expense of native Tuli Elk. It's being done. At the expensive endangered salmon endangered snowy plover populations that are being decimated by the abundance of Ravens. Out of these ranches. You know crowd out every other native bird in the national seashore and there's actually silage mowing that's being don knapp stuck in ground nesting birds as well so the seashore is a is a really dynamic place. And it's it's a lot of confounding. Variables that that are affecting our ability to to really restore the ecosystem out there. But it's it's like you say it's crazy that we've been talking about it the way we're talking about it with just manure runoff beaches. Being closed elk being killed. It's one thing outside of a national park or it's one thing on private land but it's it's completely a different thing when you have this happening in a in a national park sandwiched between two wilderness. Areas you're listening to the rewinding podcast. Did you know we also publish insightful? Inspirational content from leading wilding scholars poets artists and organizers. From around the world you can visit rewinding dot org and sign up for our weekly digest to receive. Brilliant fresh insights on everything wilding. You'll find over a decade of articles and news from the front lines of lands protection and all kinds of restoration efforts. Check US OUT AT DOT ORG and don't forget to share it with friends. I'm just refreshing my memory of how it looks from above. I'm on Google maps. I'm scrolling just ever so slightly down to San Francisco and I'm thinking the absurdity of it is that you've got people who have educations and Interests Urban interests fear. A lot of them got most of their idea of farming and things from sesame street when they grew up and they think that. That's what's happening when you when you mentioned that and the cultural thing cultural is just a super hot keyword and if you know some people just tune out right after you say that well of course you can have whatever you want. They don't even know what you're saying what you're talking about or anything. Just cultural cultural. I'm culturally sensitive. You know whatever as their drinking their coffees and going to google. I cannot believe that it's a WHO's right African their next to a bastion of education higher. Learning tack these little teeny tiny interests can hold. All this up can take a national park hostage and just wrap it up in a whole bow of things that they know play. Super Weld will a public. That's not gonNA spend very much time thinking more deeply about it They're saying they're preserving call all these things they use and it's all be yes right. It's complete and total BS. And they know it and they know we knew it and they're smiling the whole time knowing they still have control In places like point Reyes where they should not have ever been Pass the sixties. When they did that stupid leaseback thing that should have been the end of it and today should be the beginning of the absolute end of crap like this. Yeah literally crap like this little. Yeah the amount of crap out there that's produced by it seems so innocuous and harmless to have you know these ranchers out in this bucolic pastoral setting and You know everything looks so green and Beautiful when it's you know the middle in the in the spring like right now but the the scary thing is that these ranching interests are putting the same pressure as the Bundy's even though you know it seems like they're characterized completely different but these ranchers during that break spe oyster battle that I mentioned earlier with the removing the lease for Oyster farming in a potential wilderness area that is now a wilderness area Those ranchers receiving coke coke brothers money to fight against the National Park Service For private interests on public lands and in addition to that just recently during this planning process we actually had ranchers out there some of the same ranchers going and meeting with Donald Trump and and being an oppressed setting with Donald trump where they were able to give their spiel about you know that. The Oyster farm was removed by bureaucrats by environmentalists. And now they're coming after the ranchers out there and saying this with Donald Trump. They're saying this to the executive branch in hopes that you know this could curry some favor. When and if there's ever an opportunity to say look at these environmental impacts and fortunately we're in that phase where the park service for the first time ever has released an environmental impact statement where you can actually see the differences between what it would look like to have expanded ranching which is being proposed and which is the Park Service. That's their preferred alternative for the future of the store. And then even the no the no action alternative. What it looks like right now. And then what what it would look like to have reduced ranching no dairying no ranching or daring at all and you can see all the different environmental impacts the reduction in greenhouse gases reduction in soil erosion and in the improvement in hydrological cycling the the the opportunity to restore our relic native coastal prairies perennial grasslands out at the national seashore. Which could actually sequester carbon a much more effective in a much more holistic way than the carbon farming's at they're they're peddling and saying you know if we have the cows out here we'll be able to fight climate change totally negating the fact that sixty eight percent seventy percent of the greenhouse gas emissions from that national seashore come from cattle operations it. It is wild that we're so close to to an urban center with all these fantastic universities all of these highly educated people and it seems so innocuous because you can get your local organic ice cream and it and it makes you feel good that you're getting it locally and there is something to be said about local food production as a part of the path to sustainability and resilient communities. But you know that's a that's a topic for another conversation where you get your where you get your meat or where you get you know if you eat meat or where you get You know your food but I don't want my my food from a national park you know I don't want my. I wouldn't wanNA hamburger from a national park. We shouldn't be having a discussion about getting all of our food from from national parks at the expense of Bob. Cats coyotes will you weasels. Wolverines or badgers otters or elk and meanwhile right outside the national seashore dairies and matches are closing left and right people are eating less of it. Yeah they're not doing dairy dairy to bankrupt giant dairies here in the Midwest. Deans and others. The reason they're going bankrupt and going under is the demand for their product has gone through the floor. People who don't care about issues or finding the alternatives to cow's milk more desirable for their health stuff. I mean it's not even our closest friends who are putting the dent in it nor is it usually ever. It takes a bigger movement. One of our biggest challenges is just getting the message out. Once people know what's going on in a national seashore and and they understand they go to restore point Reyes Dot Org for instance and they see the twenty years of data that shows just how damaging these operations are out there and the fact that they're just out there to begin with you know it immediately makes people question why. Why are we doing this and this isn't you know this has been held is like this local issue but really it's it needs to be elevated. It's a national issue because this is national seashore and like this is the only national park where you can go see native to elk that were brought back from the brink of extinction one of the greatest restoration stories in California and yet. We're having a our congressmen. We're having the park service Being pressured by the ranchers to actually kill and and limit the population of those to the elks so that they don't eat the grass that's being leased to the ranchers. This is This is the decade where we really need to step up. I mean you know every day. Things are being gutted by brand and this administration but the United Nations just last year said that the twenty twenty s that's the decade of ecosystem restoration the decade of natural natural climate solutions and. That's a huge piece of the puzzle for figuring out how we are going to get through the climate crisis and mitigate the worst of of chromatic change and we need to really be in solidarity at each step all across the country and across the world because these are extremely biodiverse wild protected areas. And if we allow the little whittling away at each of these public lands across the country where we end up with mediocrity you know because all these little whittling away as they're all cumulative and you have ranchers out there calling for they want the eighteen fifties environmental baseline of what they should be able to do out there. Ten ten probably brought it up. They WANT PIGS. They want goats they want artichokes row crops they want Free range chickens and there are already so many impacts see this protected. Land this public land that any more of these. You know these gimmes. It's just GonNa continue to whittle away at what makes point race so special. The last thing we need is to is to feel like the things we feel are already protected or not protected. National Parks are supposed to be part of that thing where we don't have to worry. It's already a massive project to to bring up by twenty three percent or more the number of protected Land Lands in North America. That's kind of our job. That's kind 'cause we're Dave Foreman is revamping rewinding North America. Right now the entire board staff is all hands on deck Maps or a part of that all the areas that he studied back in the early two thousands when he released the book the first edition. Everything's being updated revamped with New Lines on new maps of what needs to be done to actually get to fifty percent. Of course we take an accounting of all of the things that are protected now. National Parks are part of that percentage if if it's a national park it contributes towards that fifty percent and if a national park is being abused like this it's only on paper only only so much as the undisturbed parts of that park can contribute to that fifty percent. It's not a complete protection unless it's really truly a national park like like the rest of the national parks in the country. You're not supposed to have a campaign within your organization dedicated to this issue. It came up because it had to write that. That's exactly right. This is not our. We're going had never been involved in a lawsuit. Prior to point Reyes but the park service was going forward with this expansion of of uses and extension of the leases despite the issues of mismanagement despite the fact that they had an updated their general management plan in nearly forty years. And so they were. You know heading into a future. That seems much more stressful get for that. That resource And Point Reyes national seashore. And they were going into it with a plan from the Eighties. You know and they were saying well. Let's just keep moving like we don't need an eighteen fifties environmental baseline. We don't need a nineteen eighties environmental baseline. We need to be looking fifty one hundred years in the future and projecting and saying how are we going to manage this unimpaired for future generations given everything that we're projecting and so we had to jump in and we had to take a stand and it takes resources away from other restoration projects that could be happening and some of that rewinding work that needs to be done on other parcels? And so we're now we're backtracking. Essentially what is it that people can be doing to help out with this one of the key? Things is just letting other people know about this. You know taking people to restore point. Reyes DOT ORG or four elk dot org or shame of point. Reyes typing shame point. Reyes into Youtube and watching some of these films that We've been developing in partnership with other environmentalists that care about this and we're just continuing to mobilise because we want to lean on constituents when the time is right if you're tapped into some of these online resources and you subscribe to the newsletter. This plan is going to come out this spring. And we don't know what it's GonNa look like. But we know that the park service is favoring the agricultural interest in expanding those interests and giving them twenty year leases which is unheard of in a national park for any contractor or or lease e or anything like that at that point in time we have to rally the troops and put the pressure on. And so. That's that's the big thing right. Now is just becoming aware spreading spreading that awareness and sort of staying in tune. Say that the Planning process goes in whatever direction that it does. Whatever ends up happening. What is the solution? Federally When we have an administrator because I noticed that you're not talking about the administration much here I wonder why. But once we have an administration that's got sanity at its core Again then what would be the federal remedy for the most practical of solutions would would be for the administration to you know send signals in addition to Congress sending to the National Park Service Not only the director but also the Pacific regional director saying this needs to sunset like there. There needs to be a sunset clause in here. And that's probably the most practical way to do it instead of just you know being like you know tomorrow you're out like all you all your all your six thousand cows you're out. Many of us would like to see the retirement of this and the restoration of this but in practical terms I think. Just signing in the sunset clause and saying you know at the end of five years figure out how to really make sure there's attrition and make sure that those ranches come off line. Those restoration projects come online. I think that's GonNa be the big piece. But the the state Senator Dianne Feinstein the our local Congressman Jared Huffman. They're both super supportive of extending the ranching the leases as well as what they're allowed to do with those races. That's why we're I'm saying like putting pressure on those officials from constituents when the time is right overwhelmingly. I believe the public is saying. We want to see their restoration of the seashore. Like this is a national park. It's sort of a a multipronged approach And I'm not holding my breath. Breasts that the administration is going to make this a top priority right away but if we are loud enough and if we are organized enough I think we we will be successful and you will see a sunset clause Or the reduction and eventual sunset of ranching out there the most important tool you have is your own informed energy. So don't don't burn out putting out all these fine putting all these fires That it's something my mentor. Huey Johnson who runs a our. I have sold me. And in addition to that the big tool from him too big tool from other public land's advocates and huge mentors. In my life like Michael Fromm and like Joseph Sax is really. Persistence is the only tool we have. We have to. We have to keep that that. Fire kindling inside. We have to keep hope and we have to be persistent in eventually will will out will outlive the bastard as Edward Abbey side. Very sage advice. Thank you for being around here today. and and being around for us in the future because this is a developing issue and I'd like to hear more As soon as you hear about it any any big developments or anything feel free to come back anytime to rewarding earth. Thank you very much. I appreciate being here. And I'm I'm happy that there's a resource for folks in the in the podcast realm. Thanks for listening to the wilding earth. Podcast WE DO. We do because of this. Podcast is supported by listeners. Like you who long to live and wilder world please consider donating it rewinding dot org and subscribe to our Weekly News Article Digest. While you're there to go the extra mile you can follow and share rewarding earth on Instagram facebook and and twitter bonus points for sharing this podcast with your friends to listen to pass episodes dot org slash pod that's rewarding dot org slash p. o d.

National Park Point Reyes Point Reyes National Seashore Reyes national seashore Park Service National Park Service Reyes Huey Johnson Reyes Dot Org West National Historic Register California presidio graduate school Nature Conservancy executive Resource Renewal Institute Public Private Saint Xavier University Patagonia Tula center for Biological Diversit
75 The Power of Parasocial Relationships in the Age of Loneliness

2 Girls 1 Podcast

1:09:42 hr | 1 year ago

75 The Power of Parasocial Relationships in the Age of Loneliness

"Two girls one podcast is made possible by you the listeners, and if you love the internet as much as we love talking about it and sitter supporting us on patriot. A lot of work and time go into research, recording editing and distributing the show contributing even one or two dollars per month is huge offsetting our production costs if you'd like to support the show head over to patriot dot com slash two g one p we'll keep making the show. No matter what your support allows us to make it even better. Thank you so much for listening and enjoy your show. Sweet onto girls one podcast. We examined the intense one-sided relationships. We've more with our favorite worse podcasters and online influencers. A win sedans Elena phrase intense one side in relationships could also describe my entire year in seventh grade now here on your best friends. Are we kidding? Here. Are your only friends Alison mold Bergen, Jennifer Daniela? Hey, guys. I'm jen. I'm Allie book of two two girls. One podcast. We are the two girls. This here is our podcast, our background is that we performed the internet the whole internet. We did it all while we almost at all kind of. It's you know, we're not we're not doing the show anymore because we ran out of internet. It just ended. We thought that was never going to happen. But that's kind of like how the world is flat. You know what I mean? Like, you just at a certain point you reach the edge. That's how that's how we all. Eventually meet our end. We we fall off. Yeah. Yeah. So we use the internet as their script, basically. And did that live on stage for a lot of years, then we made a web series called two girls one show, which you can find on hooah, and in that we interview people behind different internet communities gone scripted adventures. And then we came here to this podcast with the daily dot a certain gentleman who is not mentioned in the title of this podcast. But Hello, Matt. Remember those commercials from the nineteen. What was the what was that four? Now. Now go on to remind us throw Bob assessed? That's how I feel ready to cook. You should never do that again for your own good and health. I don't think it's wise society's benefit. I getting a message here and loud and clear. Thank you. Monica. Message rec-. So here today, we are interviewing people behind internet communities are phenomenon that we find interesting today is focused more on the phenomenon. This is a phenomenon although it's existed before the internet, which is interesting. So what are we what are we looking at today? Perez social relationships. That's right. We talk about relationships a lot on the show, but not this kind of relationship this kinds, para social, we're looking at how people particularly in communities like YouTube, they comment on videos, the tuber talks to them. And so they feel that they have this relationship or friendship with youtuber. But in fact, they don't they've never met. But so we're looking at someone who has done a lot of research into that phenomenon which is very interesting because January sing it's always existed. Because people always kind of thought they have these relationships with celebrities that they don't, but it's like so increased with the internet and definitely I have fallen off the bandwagon. But November and December I was pretty good about teaching. Myself ukulele, teaching myself Bernadette was teaching me. And I definitely feel that I am friends with Bernadette even though we've never met. Oh, she's YouTube celebrity she teaches ukulele on YouTube. She's very popular. If you want to learn ukulele, she seems fucking wonderful. And I feel that we're friends now don't you feel like like a crazy person? When you talk about burn it like when you find yourself talking to your real life friends about Bernadette, and they're like who is this person. You're like, she's it. She's in my screen right now. Because I to do it right now like us right here. It's just a pair of social relationship. We're not. Let's be clear. We're not friends. We're not friends. So she's not talking to her friends right now just aware enough friends. Yeah. We we three are not friends. This is this is just professional business old. Well, that's. We'll find I'm pretty fun is a friend. So sure you're missing out max. That's true. So I did something the other day on Instagram. You know, of course, follow like foodie, people farmer people. Well, this woman is a foodie farmer, and I think she's awesome. But I've never met her. She lives in Portland, Oregon. She's sharing stories of her lives. I mean her life. She only has one life. She might have multiple. You know, it's interesting with social media. How you are you have the ability to interact with the people. So she shared a story about something. She had cooked for her breakfast. Why why I'm wasting your time is with this. I don't know about her breakfast. And I sent her a message, and it was like the first time ever did that. And I was like, oh, what is that? In the picture. I was asking a question about something. She would. And I couldn't tell what it was. And she didn't respond and let felt I felt like a fucking stalker guys. I felt like I had missed gauged like what was appropriate action. Can I offer some words of condolence S, please? As a I would say de list YouTube celebrity myself. Okay. I would like to inform you that. You know? I am followed by strangers on Instagram who enjoy the videos that I create and I get messages from them. Just lovely beautiful messages that are really. Sweet and sincere, and I don't see them because Instagram hides them for me because I'm not mutual friends with them. I have not friend to the stranger and they are trying to contact. So in Serb kind of protects may only just realized that I have messages from like October of like, hey, love that video your local channel, and I didn't see them. And I only just responded and I felt like an asshole because I was leaving people hanging. Matt you are an asset. That's why we're not friends. I just like when I go to my my messages on Instagram like there's just that little paper airplane, and that's it. If you go to that paper airplane, and then you go there, you'll see all your friends that you're messaging with and on the top, right? There's like requests. And it's like a one little line of Texas like request. And if you don't even look at that, which I stupidly deny not those are messages coming in from people who are not your friends. So if if someone DMZ you, oh, who you don't know like like, a creepy. Yeah. Then then you won't see them right away. I don't see it only. Not getting getting you get a message. Yeah. I guess I'm not getting messages restraint. But that I feel good and bad about. Matt you really brightened my day. That's true. You know, she doesn't follow me. Don't doesn't check those. I personally when I get those. I look, but I probably get two of those a year or whatever. So it's a big deal. But yeah, this one. All right. Thank you. That makes me feel better. She also might get so many that she's just backlogged. And she she's gonna to respond back is she like extremely wealthy. She's she's popular. Yeah. Elliot, another experience Jaas. So a knee. I really respond right away. This is up in a lot on social media. Like, I followed blogs when they were a thing and a lot of those people transferred over Instagram. So there are some people have been following for like eight years, you know, like a pretty long time, and I feel like I'm a part of their live their lives. So when we were performing how to break up text are one show where we perform analyze people's break-up X in San Francisco like twos years ago to August ago. I don't know if I told you this is the time alley, but one of the bloggers that I follow her husband walked into the performance space that we were in the we work, and I freaked out you guys the husband of the blog everything about his life about his newborn, baby. And I so judgmental. I was like why are you at this show without your wife, and you should be home watching your baby. But I couldn't say a word to have this seven a couple of times, actually. Lee. Why couldn't you say a word? I feel like they get it. Like, that's also it kind of whether doing it. I just thought we'd been like I follow your wife, but people must do that all the time. I just I was so nervous podcasters. If you see us on the street. You are welcome to come up to me and say I follow your wife. Same sees that is allow that. So fascinating. Because the odds of finding that like, even though these people are popular like there in these little niches. So the odds of you running into a person in real life. I just find so strange straight. Yeah. That's absolutely. Yeah. Anyway, I have a lot of experience appear. Social relationships alley. Did you ever have even like when you were younger like somebody, you idolized that you felt like you had a relationship with no. Not even television. Now that I thought we were at all friends or kindred spirits or anything. Now, also mostly wasn't allowed to watch TV as a child. That's true. I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah. Which is kind of weird now because like I'm unable to multitask. If a TV his on. And that's why people they like have the TV on in the background or this or that. And like if the TV's on like, that's all I can do. Yeah. I don't know. When that now. Now, it's not only given my career choice because it's like oh eight like now, I'm in media and pitching television. And I like missed every show are you there don't all these reboots now. And I'm like that and see the original. Also, it's like cheers. You're like what? Tears. She says cheers, backer, like Seinfeld. But it's happening. Now, I'm sorry. What science high infield as a family? We would watch Seinfeld and friends mostly, you know, a lot about friends as a family. And so I watch those two shows which in retrospect, they're really weird to watch as a family a lot of stuff sex in the city like what my family's. When my mother when I was like in high school we used to turn that on. That was inappropriate. We've all we've all we've all met your mother, and that makes a lot of cool. Matt have you ever had a pair of social relationship? It's funny because you say have you ever had a pair of social they ship. And I think most of us would say like, no you haven't. But we we may be having them. But we're not like intellectually saying, I'm friends with Conan O'Brien because I listened to his podcast, but I personally am really enjoying his new podcast. And I feel like I'm understanding the intimate details of his like psyche and his career and his comedy philosophy and his his background. And so now, I feel like I know him on a personal level that I could not achieve from watching television Conan, and I'm really enjoying it. I don't intellectually think that we're buddies. But I often find myself listening on I'm like if I ever met Conan O'Brien and said hi to him and shook his hand, I feel like I could have a five minute conversation. It would be really nice. You know, I that. I think I'm having a. Or social relationship. He decides to be a bit year. You know, I just wonder, you know, the kinds of celebrities where you're like, I hope they're not a dick. And I really hope they're not like there's just something about him in this format that I feel like confirmed like he's totally like the nice guy that you always thought he was who knows who actually knows. But podcasts are the the greatest power social tool because guys we are literally inside people's bodies right now, our voices are inside people's bodies in their era holes I wanna be any guys that got so sexual I now. Well, I was going to say what if you met Conan, and he's been having a pair of social relationship with you, Mr. Matt. Since. Yeah. I'm sure he listens. I'm sure he has just follows your children on social media. Okay. We can only dream. Oh, how do you feel about people who create a an Instagram for their child? Like, do you have like does Amelia? I don't know. Maybe I shouldn't out like full people probably figure out her full name. Anyway. No, that's fine. I think people do it for great reasons because they they don't want to like turn their own personal account into like the baby photo account. So I get that. And then I know a lot of people who do it for kind of like they do it as a as a private account. So it's like, hey, twenty close friends and family who definitely want to see the baby photos, if you follow this private account, you can get your baby photos, and we can share them, but she's not public to the world. And so I think I think it's great Matt I'm having a para social relationship with your son. I just want to let you now. I'm sure a lot of people. Do I've never met, Arthur. But when I watch him and things I'm like, oh, yeah. That's so him. There's no way for me to know that. So we're living in a weird time where are your experiencing. The like trivial inner lives of everyone from your high school classmate to like Kristen bell on Instagram, and we are experiencing the day-to-day moments of nonsense. And now, we're feeling very close to people in ways that we have no business feeling close to them. I am interested in the psychology of this. I'm excited for our guests stayed at and what the like negative repercussions totally. Yeah. Right. Great transition segue to. Trivia. Speaking of para social relationships like trivia thinks it's friends with me. But I am not friends. No, no. It is one-sided. This is one direction direction. Wasn't even something. Okay. Go ahead. Today's tributes is about Zane. Let's just met knows the names of the members of vaccine came to me, and I was hoping it was right. I don't know Harry styles. Obviously, clearly wasn't it. Just seeing a trivia question. And there are no prizes for you Matthew, but well done just rattling off one direction. PS Harry styles solo album slash albums. Very good. I'm enjoying. I love all the music that the children are listening to. So I'm on board with one direction Zane, and yes, I just want to go to bar mitzvah every weekend. So I can like dance. When you say you go out dancing. You're crashing bar. Mitzvah lines in San Francisco crash. You could get paid to be the dancer who gets the party going. We knew somebody who. Because I just wanted to do. I just wanted to be the older lady in the corner drinking vodka belt dancing Bieber. Yeah. You're gonna cross the line there. That's like goes from fun too creepy in and it's very very sad. This year that y sorry she is happening now. Okay. Issues crossing it rain as we speak. I wanted to find some good like psychology trivia, and I just wasn't having it. But I did find something. But I found fascinating about online relationships as they relate to online video games. I've decided what I want to be. When I grow up, and it is an economist who studies virtual economies. What do you think you're going to go to school for that? Or what how? Just I'm just going to learn it from YouTube. I think I think it's a great idea. I'm excited for you to grow up. I think it's going to be a wild ride. I think there's a lot of things you need to look out for loud things. He ought to be careful for you got to trust, your gut. You gotta play safe. You know, what I mean, you call me if you need a ride home puberty, should I I've been hearing about that. It's gonna get weird for the podcast listeners. They're gonna think that there's an anew producer because your your voices chemical through some changes, you know, it'll end up as high pitches mind by the end. We're going backwards end up as low as that's right. That's right. I I hear Bernadette has some videos about this. So you might wanna check those out. I feel like I know Bernard at now, my friend Bernadette his great if you wanna learn ukulele go look up Vernon I meant to say you're having a shared experience. I guess she's not sharing it with you. Obviously, this is para social, but you are going through a shared experience except for it's not shape. But I understand why you feel close to her because it is very learning a skill especially like music is can be intimate. I get I'll share also is. I think probably a very good teacher. It's hard for me sakes. I've haven't had another ukulele teacher. But she knows all the air. Is that beginners make and so you'll be practicing and she'll see Oprah member to do XYZ. And I'm like, how did she know? So she tells you can see through the screen. She is is really good and is really good at making it feeling. She's never with you. Shout out to Bernadette who doesn't know who the fuck. I am. Bernadette and Conan. We know you're listening, right? And that woman who's breakfast I commented on all right? All right. This week's trivia is about social interaction inside video games, which I would classify as social not para social, two parties exchanging, you know, emotions information, and in this case money in two thousand five or going way back John Jacobs who is actually a known actor, and filmmaker but bear with me on that John Jacobs took out a mortgage on his Miami home in order to purchase a virtual object inside the video game entropy universe. I had never heard of this game until I was doing research about trivia. So I'm going to explain as we go the best I can based on my reading he took out a mortgage to buy a virtual object inside this game for the equivalent of one hundred thousand dollars of real money. So the in game currency, he used was he? Equivalent to one hundred thousand dollars. He did not mortgage his house for one hundred thousand dollars. He just took a mortgage for part of that money in order to buy this object inside the game in just five months. He had recouped is entire investment the entire one hundred thousand dollars and more and in five years he sold the object for six hundred thirty five thousand dollars making it arguably the most valuable virtual object in the history of the internet. What did he buy and sell what Matt I think you're gonna have a really lucrative career potentially as virtually condiment rate. Is this a fess grade? This is insane. Yeah. Why what can it be? Here are your choices a an asteroid space station, which he turned into an managed as a thriving nightclub. Be an extremely powerful gun which he used to hunt big game. And then it eventually became a legendary artifact. That was worth a lot more than you paid for or see the indentured servitude of three other players who needed to work for him for five years to pay off their in game. I feel like it's not a, but I want it to be a so I'm choosing a Z the nightclub the asteroid nightclub. I have no idea. They're all equally fascinating. So I'll just go with solidarity her in choosing. All right to for choice. A we will find out the correct answer after this commercial break. Really missed genetic advertisement entitled huge nine backup cop car woman or man twenty three in her from the number one online dating plunged four for misdemeanor criminals, Craigslist dot org. Cute. Mike guy in his twenties. I think with Brown yummy hair down to the shoulders. Just the way I like, you seem typed up when you saw me took the time to jump around in the back seat of the police car and gawk at me. Even though you earn handcuffs. Apparently, it felt good to be noticed by someone is cute as yourself. You seem really fit. I like that to me white gal Brown, wavy hair and black trenchcoat with my blue umbrella of Monet's water lilies up because it was snowing, and I didn't want to mess up my hair on the corner of university in Evans, I've dated nice guys on campus yawn. But I like the bad boys. What can I say when you get out of jail? Would you like to meet for coffee or something please bring a copy of your police record? I think that small robberies like drugs and belligerent, sir. Okay. But not six stuff for beating women. I do have my standards. Let me know what color your shirt was. So that I know it is smiley face. L have you ever dated somebody who's in jail? No. Are you serve up you dated someone who had some questionable activities? Oh, yeah. All right. Where people go to jail for minor things than we realize like, you know, an overnight that sort of thing that's true. Maybe have and I just don't know it sort of a lot of dudes. I date afterwards. I cut them out completely. And maybe after that they go to jail, and I don't know they go crazy because they've been missing him when they commit crimes. Yeah. I wish that other. Yep. That's the reason. Yep. Also jailed does not mean conviction jail is just where you get held on arrest. Did does that mean you did anything? Okay. Innocent until proven guilty. Yeah. At least so far in this country. Also, it's a door ball jail. I agree. No. Yeah. I mean, look she wants a bad. Boy, that's the ultimate way to go. I suppose. All right. Me to get this trivia response. Speaking of envoys, John Jacobs bought and sold the most expensive virtual object in the history of the internet. It's a game called entropy universe. Again. Not familiar and this game is still running today. Very fascinating. Game. I haven't heard. I know it's not real. Maybe we're all living in a simulation. And this was blocked out which down. Bought this object for one hundred thousand dollars made his money back in five months, then flipped it in five years for six hundred thirty five thousand dollars that's more than a five hundred x ROI in the business world be call that chain ball and his elegant BusinessWorld. Yeah. I do business. I make business all the time. Great. What was the object? A an asteroid space station, which he turned into a thriving nightclub. Be an extremely powerful gun, but became a legendary artifact or see the indentured servitude of three other players that worked for him for five years pay off their debts. You guys both instinctually chose a right away. That's right. I don't like guns or servitude. Yeah. Let's go with that. Yeah. I just. I am love a good nightclub loves to dance. We know this by now, I love to dance. Yeah. I went to a nightclub on Saturday dance till three I figured I wasn't gonna fall asleep. Anyway. So I just kept dancing on an asteroid though. No. That would be so fucking cool. I know I know someday. I don't like guns and servitude, the ginger Mula story. Quote me on that. The correct answer is, hey. You both when God that's so wonderful. We're going to we're going to go to TJ's together. And skip down the king. That place. I'm elated. I'm happy. We stuck together on that one. Yeah. More. I'm just so I'm so fascinated by video game Connie's as as I told you I'm going to be an economist. When I grow up based on this trivia, that's great lucrative. Our current plan of media. That is true truth. Yeah. I'm so fascinated that this guy like understood the economics of this place of this game. So well that he I guess took out a mortgage or put a lien the mortgage on his own real life property was only like two thousand dollars. So either he had the money invested the game. Elsewhere or you only need a little bit more to like over the top. But like the real estate in this game. You know, it has demanded has real demand, and you can buy in game currency that equates I think at a ten to one ratio. So I think it's like ten in game dollars equals one real world dollar or perhaps vice versa, and you can always cash the in game currency out. So the game I believe is free to play. But as you generate value in the game by selling goods or acquiring things you can exchange for in game currency than cash the money out. So this guy saw some opportunity to buy this asteroid base. It's I think it's a space exploration game bought the base and then developed it into a nightclub. His in game handles called never die. So the name of the nightclub was like never nightclub or something. I didn't actually write that down. Unfortunately, I didn't take good notes. What's happening? Not only did he like flip the property, but he ran it for five years, and I guess there's some sort of in game PTACs ation system. So that whatever services he provided at this nightclub for whatever the players wanted to do there. He would take a cut of whatever was going on in the nightclub and over time he made back the hundred thousand cash that money out, and then sold it and like as of now as as of the best research, I could do six hundred thirty five thousand dollars. It is the most expensive single virtual object that I could find the other objects that are in the running are all things from the same game, including the planet on which this nightclub like the the nightclubs on an asteroid, I guess, but maybe there's a planet in that same area the entire planet is like worth six million. So some sources cite this planet as the most expensive object, but no one has actually ever like completed the sale of the of the planet. So as of now this nightclub in this game is the most valuable. Real money transaction that has ever happened at a virtual world. Man. I gotta start playing farmville that seems like a game. I could handle us. It's still Brown. Be. I've never played it. But it feels like fills me gentlemen, really really do. Well, at actually I think so John Jacobs is a good looking. He's an actor. I just him. Yeah. I'm just surprised. I was not. I don't know what I was expecting. But he he looked name is not okay, though. John that. He looks a bit like. He's good looking. I mean, at least in the black and white photo that comes up. I I'm sure this was staged in some way. But he looks like like it's like a fancied tech entrepreneur. And that is not what I was picturing. I think he is a fancy tech entrepreneur slush actor. Yeah. Pretty cool. All right. Well, that was some great trivia, Matt. Thanks. I did you look crazy. So Matt what are I'm trying, but I'm also trying to participate in. I can't multitask. What are you gonna buy an invest in give us all? I love video games. And I play a lot of them. But I don't really play a lot of online multiplayer games where the economy's matter. So like most games have a system where you like you acquire gold, and they spend it on power ups or weapons, and that's fine. But it's not a real economy, but re ammos where you're actually trading with other players real value. I find that so fascinating. And when things kind of coalesce around like, whoa, this area or this object becomes valuable for real economic reasons. Not because a game told you so but because over five years value accrued around an object like I just think that's the coolest thing ever. And but I don't play those games. I just I just studied them. I just like read articles about them rate is this guy John Jacobs. The elephant I mean, never die was his insider trading. Never die was his handle and the name of the nightclub. So he ran the nightclub has like never die club or something. But the name of the gate. He does not involved in the development of the game. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. I. Started. You told me. About CEO. And I was like is this legal. Got it. So many. Well, that black and white picture was tall tall fake. You could get into a para social relationship with him. If you Pat social. It's time for our interview. Speaking of our social relationships, we have with us, Dr Leslie Rasmussen who is an assistant professor in the communication department at executor university, and she has authored papers about personal relationships. Welcome leslie. Hi, thanks for having me, thanks for being here. So to kick us off, I think it would be very helpful for our listeners to hear your definition of what a power social relationship is occurs. Social relationship is essentially a pseudo relationship that people believe they have with someone else in the fifties. It was primarily examined between celebrities and viewers or listeners and specifically like news personalities, soap opera, personalities and sports athletes in it's sort of the definition, or who you can have a relationship with has sort of involved over the years, basically the sense of knowing that people per se. Seve they have with someone of her seed Savvas, a do people actually need to think that are friends with them. Or is it it truly is just like you said like a sense of knowing like emotional attachment in some way. Yeah. You know, there's really two parts of it. The first part is pair social interaction and you need interactions before he developed the actual relationship. I know I'm getting super nerd there. Talk nerdy to. Those those initial reactions right to when you view someone for the first time, you don't really know them, you know, that you don't know them, but there's enough of a spark there or even dirtier something we call a homo Philly, which are released things that we are attracted to likability attractiveness trustworthiness. And sometimes it's just because they have some sort of perceived status. So we assume they're trustworthy way see them again. And again in then were in full blown I'm going to cry because your grandma got sick and died or your dog did. And I feel like I know you, and I knew fluffy in or in this full blown meta pseudo relationship after that point that when you say status, do you mean like the meaning of it is sort of like social standing or what would status be well, so typically it was, you know, celebrity basically. But now we look at it through the lens of not your tradition. Celebrities like it used to be back in the day. When people were first examining the interactions and relationships so somebody who makes YouTube video or a podcast in your case. You know? So maybe you're not, you know, hosting the American idol or something or you're not a beyond say, but we start to feel like you have something going, right? You're on a platform. So you have some sort of status that the audience perceives, anyway, some sort of credibility. So let's go there. I'd love to hear about how this phenomenon has changed with, you know, the rise of the internet. Yeah. So you know, like, I said before people looked at it, the relationship development between the viewers in like, news personality, so bumper stars and athletes soap opera stars, you know, they're in your living room every day Monday through Friday, you're so involved in all my gosh. Erica Kane's hair caught on fire and you're mad at her sister-in-law. Because she slept with her brother or something crazy in there in your house every day. So you start to feel like, you know, them. And I can remember my mom in my aunts sitting having their little GOP ac-. Those after washing their soap operas in going on in on about the soap operas in how they couldn't believe. So and so did this to so-and-so, and it's like, you don't even know them. This is totally fiction. But they're in it because they're watching it constantly for days and years at a time, right? They were on for decades. And in the same thing with the newscasters, right? Newscasters are in your house every evening, n you trust them in there telling you the things that you think are important. But now, we get our information in our entertainment from so many other outlets other than a television screen. You know, we have social media coming into the mix news outlets or there. You can connect with news folks in a in a even more personal way. I guess with social. Media and the same thing with just even like fan brand interaction you can interact with the brands as opposed to just it being a one sided piece of communication where you're sitting there watching the show, and consuming it you can't they're not hearing what you're saying back to them. But now it's social media internet, right? We can say something in online, and they can respond to us people get so excited when they do get a response from somebody they perceive as having celebrity or you know, a real celebrity. So it's it's changed in that way. Where it's it used to be really like top down one way communication, and now it is more involved in it's perceived as two sided, even though the celebrity or that person was status that it keeps saying doesn't really know as much about you as you know, about them. And that's okay. But you we still the viewer still feels like elevate course, they know about me, right? I can relate to them. I can comment on their YouTube video or I can comment on their Facebook Instagram Twitter. You know, whatever until it's just I think strengthened because of that at it seems to me like a lot of the creators are leaning into that and feeding that parasols relationship. Right. So they're in bay purposefully, especially in YouTube, speak to the listener in that kind of way and encourage comments, do you have any thoughts on that? Is that good is bad. I mean, I think it's great one thing about these YouTube celebrities is they are not or on, you know, they're influencers now, I guess, but they're not beyond say, they're not, you know, J lo or whoever they are kinda like the girl next door the boy next door or whatever. And they're they're they're they're in your room with you. You're watching them before bed or whatever. And it's intensified because they say things like you guys are right family. I love y'all so much. You know, some groups have like little pet names like, oh, what's her name graveyard, girl? She has an obscene amount of you to followers, and she's got the. Swamp family in y'all are part of the family, you know, in all that does is just intensified that relationship in the viewer might know, they have a vested interest in it that the celebrity does. But sometimes that doesn't even matter because there is that sense of hersal Nessin that sense of knowing it can be so strong. They don't care, so psychologically, speaking. I guess I'm just curious. Like, what kind of relationships are these like are they actually considered relationships if they're not reciprocal or like, how healthier unhealthy is that like people think they're part of a community or a family is it just individual or, you know, are these actual relationships? Speaking. I don't know since I have not in psychology. It is definitely peculiar, you know. I can think back to I'm from Corpus Christi, Texas. That's the hometown of Selena in Celina died. I was in high school. I remember it was like the world stop. I mean high school was over. We didn't have any class arrests the day. We were all glued to the screen. Our teachers our principal, you know. And it was like Selena, we know her even though we don't know her. And we felt like she's from the video like us like we can relate to her like the relationship was so intense, even though it's not a real relationship. Right. So I almost want to liken it to like a catfish relationship, except it's that's not true because you're at least communicating back in fourth with someone. But I'm sure there are times when it can be very unhealthy for some folks. I mean, I'm a fairly educated person. I know about this stuff. I study at I do all. Of that. And even as I do my research in I'm watching YouTube videos of certain folks, I start to think like, Aw. Aw, man. Danny got divorced. Like, that's sucks. You know? And and I know what I'm looking for an I start to feel it. So I think when you have perhaps younger folks, especially or or maybe whatever age group that aren't as media-literate that it can intensify. And I'm sure there is definitely a dark path that it can travel down. I mean, it's interesting though, because a lot of examples are giving are just very empathetic. You know, like we should care when someone gets divorced or he'd when someone is murdered like, you know, what I mean? So it actually has made me think about it almost positively like could these things be used to taught empathy in some way. I don't know. Maybe so I don't see why not I I worry about the dark side being like okay now. Now, I know you and I'm gonna develop an obsession with you in right things are gonna go like single, white female status or something. Right. And I think people just forget. Adding what a normal real friendship is because they think they have all these friends that they're not really friends with actually right? You have like a thousand Facebook friends, but how many do you really know real life in, you know, exacerbate that on YouTube when you're a YouTube celebrity, right? And how it changes the definition of friendship for a lot of people. I think yeah, it's the highlight reel, you know, of our life in just to add one more layer to it reminder that on any social media, and certainly on a youtuber that is presenting him or herself like their only presenting a small side of their personality or their life. When you have a real relationship with someone. You're seeing the good and the bad perhaps. But when you're seeing the internet version of someone on Facebook, you're only seeing the good, and and that's that's certainly not the whole picture. I'm curious how you think technology is actually going to escalate this. So for instance, like when we can all hang out in VR with our favorite YouTube celebrities like what is going to happen. Oh, I have no idea what will happen from my perspective brands or jumping on it. Right. Like, that's sort of what I'm examining it through there, certainly capitalizing on it, basically. Because instead in what ways. Well, for example, you know, I think Lori L paid beyond say something like five million dollars to do one or two commercials several years ago, but now they can spend twenty thousand or forty thousand dollars to make a I don't know make up with Tiffany, d do a YouTube video, and she's got this millions of subscribers that are studying there anxiously waiting for her to tell them what she likes to then she can go out and buy in that level of credibility is probably higher between you know, that youtuber and the viewer as opposed to may watching beyond say because just beyond say go roll up to target by a ten dollar box. L'oreal hair-color, no way, you know. He's going to the salon. But if Tiffany on YouTube who's in her bedroom making this video is telling me like, yeah. I really like it. You know, I got awesome box job than maybe. I'm more likely to believe it, right? It's it seems more organic in nature. Yeah. That seems like good business, plus his way cheaper absolutely pay to pay her than to pay beyond set. Yeah. Well, it's also just sort of like instead of just like these wide these celebrity endorsements just to have someone so targeted who she literally does make up reviews. So eminent does make more sense. What what other ways do you think are brands capitalizing on this? I mean, that's really the primary way than I've seen it. You know, they're doing the brand sponsorships in just trying to get these influencers essentially to endorse their products. But it's also it's done differently to than a commercial or a print dad because it's not necessarily scripted. You know, so it does come across more organic in that regard. It's just evener girlfriend. Hanging on your bathroom getting ready to go out tonight in you're chatting about this. Awesome hair-color or product or mascara whenever so it just it's a commercial. But it's so not a commercial. I find it terrifying. And really fascinating. Like when suddenly all of these influencers that I follow on Instagram bowl, just casually and their stories. Be like, oh, yeah. I've decided to try this brand of shake. It's so good. And like it just seems like they're just talking about their lives. It was part of their stories what they were doing that morning. But then you notice like multiple people are talking about the same thing. And if you look they do have like the little, you know, sponsored by thing up in the corner. But I definitely have to search for that though. Is it time? It's it's tiny in the upper left. Yeah. But they do it so organically, and it, and I don't know they make it seem like it's a natural part of their lives. And you do want to be like them. I bought a set of sheets because an influence ordinance. Aground actually multiple people were talking about the sheets need sleeping tip. Well, it was it Brooklyn. No, it's a newer brand called parachute. But it was like all these millennial women like kind of hell healthy lifestyle. Influencers? We're talking about like their amazing beds. And they would have these great pictures, and yes, I got some. So it works. I think it's much more active. Yeah. Yeah. Also years smart bitch, like if it's working on. The whole thing to post fire festival celebrities are really getting in trouble for not being super clear about when it's an endorsement or not right. Yeah. Fired missiles, so interesting. I know I've watched the net flicks. One. I haven't watched the Hulu documentary yet. I'm sort of like how much time don't want to spend on this. But it's it's good. It's worth the watch. Also both of them both. Yeah. Seen both. This is a hot topic in my classes right now. That's true. True. You know, Jerry media, though, they co produced the Netflix. Yes. Yes. So they can kind of control how they look in that one. And they can't in the Hulu on right? So it's it's interesting to juxtapose the two, yeah. Because they're getting a lot of shit right now. Yeah. For all kinds of things we so what else are you looking at in your classes regarding fire festival and celebrity endorsements and all that kind of watching to see how it unfolds with the endorsers because. You know, like some of the models are allegedly going to be subpoenaed soon in trying to determine their role in it. And I think it's bringing up a broader question of responsibility of influencers on at how that's going to be handled in the future. You know? I think a lot of like the smaller ones that are not that don't have managers and things like that. They're probably to control it a lot more. You know, these other ones than yeah. Here's the festival we want you to promote it in by the way, it's gonna you know, you're gonna clear two hundred fifty thousand dollars for these Instagram posts. Okay. Awesome. You know? So they they just do it. They enter into these business deals. I don't know if it's any different than you know, you enter into any business deal in a goes, south, right? So they're Savall out. But because they're influencers now, I think that's going to be examined a little more closely in see perhaps with ethical issues may arise. It's interesting to me though. Because I think in light a fire festival in other scandals influencers, you know, should be held accountable. But I don't think they should be personally. Should be held accountable. Retroactively like that's how they were all doing it. And now, suddenly they're in trouble for it. I don't know. It seems weird like make rules later and then penalize people for them. But it's also hard like are they going to have to research? Look, I know in the net flicks. When they were saying that the video team was like they were just hired to do a gig. Like are they supposed to research every single client? See if it's a Ponzi scheme. I don't know. Right. And it might be it might be a great one that even if you did research, you wouldn't figure it out. Yeah. You know? And then what you're held accountable. Yeah. I don't know what the answer is. But it's very interesting. Do ya? Have you done any research on like when things go wrong with these influencers like when they when they disappoint their viewers somehow, or like, you know, maybe something comes out about how they're not the people you thought they were and how that affects their fans, and I haven't done any official research about that. But I have kind of explored a couple of topics. I spoke to the verge about that this guy at twitch com. Who basically said he didn't. Want his viewers to feel like they knew him. And there was some you know, it was a quote pulled out of context. But I get what he's saying to like, you know, he is kinda like Matt was saying, right. He's showing one part of himself in that his business. So does he want you to feel like, you know, him in the rest of his life? No. And I, you know, I get it but audiences still wants to feel like they know everything. And so he base a lot of backlash. But I think at the end it was very much a fleeting crisis. You know, he bounced back. It was no big deal after a couple of weeks, and then you had graveyard girl who had mentioned she's on YouTube. I wanna stay she's around the five million subscriber. Mark maybe eight million at she her trace, this image that is absolutely counter to her real life are not familiar with graveyard girl. Now, it's crazy how famous some people are on like that Melania just because they're so Nishi, you know, what I mean suppose the traditional celebrity that's like so widespread, and they're also like in all these marketing campaigns billboards, you know, anyway. Okay. Sorry, go on. Byard girl. Oh, grave burger, you know, she has she films in room that looks like it's, you know, a room out of the garbage pail kids, you know. It's just it's it's really junkie. You know, she's got her dolls in their eyes or poked out in. She's just this one way. And yet turn the camera around in leave that room and she lives in this mansion outside of Houston, Texas. She has fancy cars in. She goes to Disney all the time. She's a big Disney buff, which seems so pure innocent. In yet, not quite what we get on the YouTube videos, and that was sort of slowly revealed not long ago, I wanna say within the last year or so and then oh my goodness. Not Logan, Paul. What is the other guy? Ryan something he went into this handed. Like do a sit down with her where she could talk about, you know, why she portrays this image, even though she clearly lives in a mansion in has this life of. Of fortune. Basically I'm in yet. She doesn't protray that she did these the series of heartfelt videos with him where he's interviewing her in. You know, kinda I guess trying to save face a little in a appeal to her audience in say like, I just didn't know if you guys would care about me, if you basically knew the real me it's so fascinating because they don't they don't know the real person for any of these people men like as an actor just makes me think like why is allowed to take on a character, right or persona for this one channel. Although I haven't seen it. So I don't know if she's like claiming to be very real like, I'm digging maranda sings, right? And like nobody got mad over whether or not she could actually sing the because when you see an actor on television or in the movies, and then you see them walk around the real life. It's kind of like, oh, I thought I knew George Clooney, but he's just a regular guy. And he's different from what I thought, and you kind of accept that. But there is a found a cultural foundation of like bloggers are supposed. To be sharing the real nece with their audiences. And if it turns out there totally faking then that's a huge disappointment to people who thought they knew the person, I think that's the subtext here without knowing graveyard girls shit. No, absolutely. That's exactly that's exactly it. You know, it's sort of like they felt like the wall was pulled over there is or something. And I mean, if you ask somebody who has a in it, I just checked to eight point five million subscribers and one point five billion views. I d I think they're not gonna make money. I'm of course, are making money in their this is their business center going to be prosperous in whenever regard, that's at para, social, relaxed relationship. Right. It's so strong that you forget everything else are examples of what you referenced earlier like the single white female thing where people get really angry because they think that they are friends. I mean, have you seen those kind of stories not seen anything in the news where they've gone like outright nuts on them, though. Good. Yeah. So the. I feel like it's probably coming. But I don't I haven't seen anything yet. There has been a lot of like, you know, in you to comments or any kind of comment in Instagram. Whatever right. If somebody doesn't like you they're gonna trash him in the comments. You know, Laura Lee, she is a beauty blogger who have a couple of million subscribers as well. There were some tweets pulled up that she tweeted out on several years ago, and they were racist in Bryant, and she lost a business deal with old ta I think it was with Alta. They were putting on a makeup pallet together in that GOP poll in people just railed on her and she lost like half a million subscribers in, you know, there was there was a lot of that happening. And I've seen that happen before. But I can't say where I've seen like, oh, I received, you know, somebody coming to my house or whatever doesn't mean it hasn't happened. It's it's funny to me because it's like if the youtuber says, hey, guys, welcome back to my real life. At turns out. It wasn't the real life. Will then shame on. If they just were playing a character, and sort of you don't have to overtly say it like random things is so over the top she such ridiculous character. But just put yourself out there as a character never really say anything about it. Then I suppose it's like shame on the audience for not understanding the difference. So it's hard to know where that blame lies. But there is obviously this culture of here's my life, everyone in it's real. And guess what? None of it is really real. We should know that by eight. Yeah, we should know that by like we have to have a paradigm shift for ourselves as viewers of social media knowing we have to accept that. We're not seeing the whole person. And in some cases, we might not be seeing who they really are at all. Even though it feels like the most personal medium possible. I I remember I think it was largely who I was reading about she's involved the whole community of beauty bloggers dying, actually. Yeah. Yeah. There was like a group of them. But I think she had put out an apology video when that happened, and she was crying in the video. And then she received a lot of backlash because people were like, this is she's fake crying. That didn't seem real. Well enough. Now, we won't have it. She has such a big personality anyway in her videos. So then I don't know. I'm a cynic, I guess, but it did come across as a little disingenuous than inconsistent. Maybe with her her outrageousness, I guess, but yeah, she got a she got a lot of heat for that for sure. So I notice is taken it way back onto still curious at the very beginning. Leslie, you mentioned about like the little things that we're looking for in people to determine if we trust them, or, you know, we're we're interested in them things that spark for us. Do you have any were examples about like, what are some of those things that were actually looking for when we're interacting with people on social media that sort of form these parcels relationships for us, like what leads to that sort of biologically, or, you know, part of it is just that biological innate feeling that we have when we're watching somebody attractiveness is one of the biggest ones, right? So, and that's obviously subjective. But there are probably people out there who have George you folks might agree. We like, yes. This is a very attractive person. So attractiveness is just one of those things that draws us to people. Now, if you look at bunnies picture us. All right graveyard, girl, her she goes by bunny Meyer. That's her name. I think Hurrell names racial, but bunny elector up. I looked her up. She. Yeah. She's she's very pretty she's definitely in. What did you say? What is the room? Look like, the the junkyard or something. Trashing. Yeah. That's right. So attractiveness credibility in just overall likeability of the personality are the three main factors that we kind of examined, and you can pull those apart even further credibility. Just because I dunno. You just feel like you trust someone or it could be because well, maybe they have, you know, lights in their videos, and they look more professional in their production quality, right? So sometimes that's not necessarily something we process and think about, but we still see that as more credible. But we think it's more credible. Just because the production polity looks better. When in reality, you know, that means nothing, you know, it's just digit have enough money to go buy lights and get better, microphones or whatever. So there's just a lot of those little things that add that likability could just be also related ability. Some. Of these YouTubers that they don't have those over the top personalities, and yet they've still been very successful in. They just come across as likable. Maybe they are more girl next door boy next door with thing. But for some reason they are relatable to a broad audience. Yeah. So what do you think is is the future of this phenomenon? Anything that people should be wary of or do you think it's just it's it's fine. This is just the way the the world is going. I think it is just the way the world is going. I don't think we can get away from it simply because social media is probably not going away. And even if the platforms, as we know it goes away, they're still gonna be something else on the internet. You know in something that connection somehow. So this has been examined since the fifties. And I think it just keeps evolving as technology all in that sort of thing businesses or capitalizing on it, obviously in will. See where it goes. You know, the fire festival is a great example to see if perhaps there, you know, any regulations are going to be enforced related to it. I think as a viewer, you know, maybe we should be aware that these folks do have a vested interest, and the reality is, we don't know them. Even though we might feel like it as you know. I said an Jen said, you know, she bought sheets because of something I see myself. I'm studying this crap. And I'm like, oh, man shit. Maybe I should go by that mascara that looks good is. So even though we're literates in aware of still like it's very powerful because it penetrates so I don't know what we can do other than you know, do other FCC's already doing which is requiring folks to disclose endorsements in ads and whatnot. And some people don't care. Anyway. Do you think as this continues to evolve in the lines continued to be blurred between what's real? And what's not? Not real that could potentially as viewers affect our real relationships in real life. Like, I don't know if you have an opinion on that very interesting question. And I think that in a lot of ways it does in. Here's why just for the sheer fact that, you know, sometimes there are studies out there that have examined. Why people use social media or how it makes them feel when they're on social media for you know, varying amounts of time and people can feel bad start to feel bad about themselves or they can feel like they're just not worth enough because they're not living the highlight reel of somebody else's life that they view on social media in. That's like the people they do know. So let's say my cousin is posted all of these fantastic photos of her, you know, on these amazing trips. Well, really, she's working in an insurance office. And who knows what town and she's just showing her vacation photos all the time. But I don't see that. Right. His it's the highlight reel. That can start to make you feel bad about yourself or these people allowed are constantly posting their lovey dovey relationships all over. Well, you know that can also make you feel like you have to have this level of public knowledge about your relationship in order to obtain your value within that relationship, which is so silly. But yet people still feel that way. And I think the more involved in depth. We get into these social media celebrities who we have developed these relationships these pair social relationships with. I think the same thing is going to happen there to where we'll gosh, I don't look like you or I don't do that. Will course, not if they have two million followers. They're not getting up at seven AM and going to work every more meeting all their their life is a lot different in it can affect how we perceive ourselves though. So in conclusion still have real life friends. Yes. Still be still have real life friends. They're important great. Well on that. No, I think we should leave you alone. Thank you so much fun. Thanks for joining. How do we feel about the idea that this is the way the world is going? I don't know I feel a little conflicted because I I guess there's nothing to be done about it. And also isn't a bad thing. And you know, can we empower selves in these sorts of Burlington ships, or I don't know that I think it comes back down to things like the time well spent movement, and like, yeah, that's just kind of limiting the amount of time that we spend on the internet. You know what I mean? I think if you are watching your favorite YouTube, or you know, once a week, whatever it is then that's fine. And great. And you know, she was saying like this is not a new phenomenon. Exactly. But I think when people spend too much time on YouTube and Instagram and are seeing this highlight reel like that's when we get into the negative effects that we've discussed before on the podcast. So I think it just kinda comes down to limiting screen time. And then like, yeah, the FCC how are you doing with that that little thing called the FCC? How are you doing with limiting your screen time these days, I know we haven't talked about this today. I have a gold elimidate. We've been we've talked about this before four shore like waste time. We're I'm like, why am I on this? But I don't know. I haven't I haven't made any real efforts lately. Okay. Well, also, I mean, are you ever? Is there any social media that you go on for more than like five minutes at a time? Like me, I'll go on Instagram Kelly tw-, like twenty minutes, and I get my reminder from them and I get off. But twenty minutes is pretty long every that thinking the iphone has that new dashboard. That tells you how much time you've spent and I was thinking of doing that. But I actually like tracking it more. But I don't I don't think I spend that much time on social media beds. Ashmore right now says I have spent too much time in messages, our interesting. Well, that's good. You're having some real life interactions with humans. So well, then I mean, I feel. Dicta to my phone, but I'm not like big on watching YouTube or anything and Instagram whenever I sign on. I'm like now, I feel bad about myself. I should not do this. Really? I just spend too much. I'm on bumble. And I don't know why I have an outsource to met yet girl on that. Yeah. I mean, also just the question all this like the responsibility of the person making the content first of all to let you know when their advertising a product. So it's not like some weird insidious soup thing. You know, that is has to be clear and also just I feel like when they're not portraying a real life met you made a comment about it linked pretending. It's real I feel like there's a responsibility to kind of let people know that this is not how it actually I'm playing character or not a little bit. Yeah. That's clear with lady Gaga, for example, as a popstar, but it's so hard to tell with all of these people and social basically you gotta wear face prosthetics. Does you know not her because she's wearing a fucking meat dress in a face prosthetic? You know what I mean? Of course, not really her. What if it was it's tough to know where that responsibility falls because you're just turn on a camera getting on YouTube been doing your thing as a personality as an entertainer. You don't have a legal obligation to say, hey, by the way, this is not my real life now. Yeah. It just as as with most things that comes down to media literacy right at the end of the day. And I mostly worry about the kids. We should be somehow informing or teaching the kids that just truly literally everything everywhere from television to radio to your favorite Instagram or it's all fake to a degree. And there are degrees of fakeness and most likely someone is trying to sell you something at some point along the way. Yeah. Nothing a big issue with that. Because like no casinos when I really do need a product. I do not fucking nowhere to research because you know, every article that pops up is some kind of at our sponsored placement or whatever. So. I don't even know where to properly research anything anymore. I think most people just go to the first Google result or the first YouTube result, and they just say cool. That's the information I need, and they don't know you are a savvy consumer who is now throwing up her hands and saying fuck, I don't know which one is real. That's a real problem. Most people don't have that problem. You're like even so called legitimate sites. When they're doing roundups of like, the best products for such and such like, those are all paid placements or they're getting an affiliate link or whatever it is. They're everytime. Clicks, they're getting a little piece of the pie. Like, I don't know what the real sources. Correct. It depends on your definition of legitimate. And there has to be a marker of trust or the history of trust. Like, I don't know that the New York Times just to use a, you know, the a poster child example, an example of a trusted news source that everyone agrees most people agree. Some people are great is a trustworthy site. Like quickly downgrade that everyone most people some you. You know, you were talking about, you know, the the, you know, the fringe. Of our society who think the New York Times is not real news. But anyway, I don't know for sure that if they haven't affiliate program, but I'm gonna assume that they probably do because it's it's a very important aspect of the business of the media business these days, and so if the New York Times has an affiliate program than they are taking steps to say to the audience. Hey, this article is not influenced by the products, but we're just monitoring the links because it really sucks out there, and we need to make money somehow. And we're also providing a service I missed that was what they'd say had sex most do not. But you know, what I mean like most most sites and most most websites do not have a hundred years of journalistic integrity to say, hey, you know, we would never fuck this up. So trust us most sites. Do not have that. So if you go on BuzzFeed, like do you trust that they're not in like like, I think they do really good work. But I also think they do a lotta shitty stuff too. So who who can say, it's hard. And then if you go to like, cool products dot biz like, you, you can almost be certain that there is no there are no standards on that website. So yeah. But. Like, I was on business insider the other day, and I was like, I'm pretty sure this is some kind of sponsored affiliate link roundup situation. And I can't trust, you know, they they they are a big player in the affiliate space, and they do good journalism. And so there's a difference between this this article is supported by Laurie. Al basically what I'm getting at is where am I gonna find my sleep products? That's what I'm researching engines Instagram. The best sheets, I leaders. Well. There you go where they like regular firsthand experience like helps regulate your body temperature through the night. That's what I was looking for. And I googled, and I was like everything's an I cannot help you there. Annie way Peres social relationships. Jan do you think is your friend that isn't the food bloggers? Who else? Does anyone think that you're our friend on your or not? I think we'll that. That's why is that right? Because I don't think any of these people are, my friend. But it's like a closeness you feel. You're like, you can you feel like, you know, who they are. But you don't. Yeah. So I don't actually think any of my friends. I love it. I love ninety nine percent of it. Because you know, and you guys have weird lives and jobs, but the pretend you had a normal job in an office where can't pretend pretend? Although the health benefits the benefits sound good. Reagan. Do you have for a man with benefit you walk into that imaginary office, and your coworkers are lovely and you have some things in common, but they're not as excited about farm life, or, you know, growing crops or doing all the things that you are very passionate about you. Don't share that connection with the normal people that you meet in your everyday life. And then you can self select on Instagram, the people that are absolutely as as in love with that culture as you are and you to spend like every day with them. And I know it's fake. But it's also a dream come true. Oh my God. It's a complete drain via. Yeah. I know. But then it creates an identity crisis. Sometimes you're like who am I why have I chosen this life where I'm not surrounded by these kinds of people who have everything with me. But that's just that's just life. Like, everyone's so, you know, unless I were to move to a hippie commune far. Arm. Okay. But I'm not going to do that. But yeah, it does create sort of a weird sense of your own identity in in those arenas the larger question guys have just who am I? I think we're all dealing with that Chen. Why don't you live on a farm, right? See isn't you're asking the question too. So maybe the question of our age is really reconciling this like you don't have you can love food, and you can love farm life. But you don't have to go whole hog. There are things about our lives. Going guys. I love that. There are things about our lives that tie us to like we have to be Newark or have to live in the suburbs. Or I have children. So I can't travel the world like those are that's my real life. But I can still enjoy I can dip my toes into this fantasy of these Pera social relationships as long as I don't get too obsessed and to lost in the like, why aren't I like these people that's sort of a a maturity slash media. Literacy thing that I think is hard for kids. Like imagine a millet a middle schooler like coming to terms with that. I think that's very hard and is probably hard for some adults. We have come through the internet we've transitioned through non internet times. And now we are here. I think we people have our age kind of see the the issues, but people who grew up with the internet in their hands. They might have a tougher time. That's my word. I think I'll make sense. Yeah. All right, guys. Well, we want to hear what you think as. As an life. You think that your our friend tweet us? We will respond alley gold. I'm attuned bugger. Yeah. We want to hear like, yeah. How do you relate to this podcast? And okay. So there are a few more ways to actually be in touch. You can Email us a to g one podcast gmaiLcom. You can give us a call and leave us voicemail, and we may play it on the show and respond to it here on the show that number is. Vicks bar four eight that number ten three four seven six. I'm on the realist of the really real real ways to be in touch with us is to go into our discord server way. Are you going to give us your address? No. That might get a list way the real. There was a fan of sentence maple syrup those great. But that is true. That did happen. You can go door discord server, that's discord dot slash to g one people are suggesting topics for the show, they're asking sample questions that we could put on upcoming shows, which is wonderful. And we're there sometimes Matt I would say is there all of the time get a life. Babs getting getting but come join us, and we love we would love three to be part of the conversation if they want to contribute. How did they go to patriot dot com slash two g one p and we hope that you will great. All right. We'll see you next week. I say. Is hosted by Jennifer Chamula hand. Optimized for maximum real Nissen. I mean reduced by Matt Silverman in New York City. This episode wasn't edited by Danny Metaxas. Production assistance is provided by the on this show is a production home the daily dogs number one source Rian, Deborah warning about life on the internet. Diverse.

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Alan Major | Loving the Game of Basketball

SportsEpreneur Podcast

34:35 min | 1 year ago

Alan Major | Loving the Game of Basketball

"Welcome to the sports e preneurs podcast, the podcasts were sports in entrepreneurship, collide, a cat source family production in this episode. We discussed loving the game and building a foundation of success. This podcast exists in large part because of calcium to content marketing business inside cat sourcing. So what does calcium do you how many business leaders need help communicating their story? Will. That's what we do content creation and distribution for business. Leaders this provides opportunities relationships and a platform for you and your business. Who, why do we do this, because a calcium exists to help business leaders, build a meaningful legacy that is worth living and leaving? Learn more by visiting calcium dot com. Our guest today is coach, Alan major, Allan is a college basketball coach speaker and author. Alan has coach at UNC Charlotte. The Ohio State University Xavier university university of the Pacific and California Lutheran university, coach major currently lives in Indianapolis, and is seeking a new coaching gig. Allen major a veteran leader both on and off the court has played a key role in successful programs for two decades. His philosophy is based on power professionalism, and motivation, and he has helped shape scores of young men and colleagues alike, toward personal and collective victories. Whether it's a coach a speaker or leader one thing remains unchanged. His relentless drive and clarity of vision with Allen's experience on the court. He loves sharing his story journey in life lessons from the game of basketball. We are super excited to have join us on this podcast. So let's get it going. I want to take a quick step back. College basketball coaching win. Did you know you wanted to become a basketball coach? You know, I would say, I was thirteen years old, and it was a funny incident that happened in my backyard, when I was a kid, I was always the, you had a court in the backyard and, and basketball hoop attached to the garage. You know, the whole routine. And, and I was always the younger guy playing with older guys, you know, they'd be Dunkin on the ram, and it'd be bent, you know, whenever I'd come back home. I tell guys would be out there playing until the older guys gonna talk me how to play, you know, make a make the task is take a good shot. Don't do things you know, outside your character on the court. And so as I got older, I taught, you know, younger kids that would come by, you know year or two younger than me, how to place a one time. We're finding three on three. It's me, and, you know, a few other kids, and we basically have a little quick huddle and it's game point. And basically, I, I tell this one little kid is named Dewan Washington. And I say, hey one. Yeah. Pass the ball here, I'm gonna come set a pick for you. You know you come off of me. If you're open shoot it so boom, boom, he makes this shot, and it wasn't like you know, angel saying from the heavens or anything like that. But it just just kinda hit me like, hey, this is that was really cool. What just happened? And it was one of those things that maybe just planted a seed in me that whenever I finished plan, you know, every got thinks he's gonna play forever until he's not. And then, so I just knew that always wanna basketball to be part of my life at that point. I didn't know how Fei all that I was hoping it would be coaching. But I think that was like a kind of a kind of a pivotal experience that at the time, it was probably seemingly insignificant, but ended up being pretty special. Yeah. I would imagine. So if he comes like your moment to have that type of thing we've all been out there, right? I think I pointed directions and went plate, you know, driveway, basketball until people to go on. Certain directions. I don't think it went as well as the probably what you just went through when your team. But I love them. We love those stories. We love stories of people when they when they were coming up. And they realized at that time, like, man, this is something I want to be a part of my life. Like you said, when we spoke a few months ago you told me this incredible story. You turned out to be an assistant basketball coach at the Ohio State University and before that you had been on campus in Saint John's arena, and you had, I think, at your time, your girlfriend, there, I want you to carry us story from here because I think this is one of just one of those stories that I think a lot of people need to hear. Yeah. So I was in the Sistan coach. My first job was at California Lutheran university, and I'm not personally Lutheran, but, you know, I, I went there and I knew the head coach and so probably this would have been the summer of say right around nineteen ninety four in that range. And I was dating a girl that was in graduate school. Like I was Cal Turin, but she was from Newark, Ohio, in Newark was right outside of Columbus, not far away. So I went back to visit her and we met, you know on campus. One day at Ohio State we'd said, we're gonna hang out and you know hang out campus and this is obviously date myself here but rollerblades were big deal at the time. So we, we, he has the bright idea that we're going to go rollerblading all over. Campus and she rollerblade it. I spent most of the day, picking up rocks out of my knees and, and pick myself up off the ground. But it was it was fun. So anyway, we end up walking into Saint John arena, which is historic, you know arena on the campus in, and so we walk into the arena, and, you know, my mouth just drops and I'm looking around and ironically, when I was a manager at through working with Jean, Katie. You know, you go all around the big ten in Ohio State was one of my favorite opposing places to go. So I had been in that arena before. And so we're standing in the doorway the arena, we're looking around. I just blurted out. I said, wow, this would be an awesome place to coach someday and literally without hesitation, my girlfriend a ton Melissa was renamed. She says, oh, don't worry you will. And it was, you know, it's one of those things like, yeah, you know, well, you just you're low biased stuff. So you saying that about me, and so fast forward about ten years later, two thousand four when, when that took the job we were at savior, and it happened really late. And unfortunately Jim O'Brien the previous coach, you've got let go with Ohio State. So it was, you know, literally like the first week of July the day before recruiting when we got hired at Ohio State, and I remember the first chance I got to get to my office and the first phone call. I made was to her. And I said, you'll never guess what I'm sitting right now. And she goes where said, well, you remember us rollerblading along time ago certain campus. And you know you saying that I would end up coaching there someday. And there's this kind of silence. You know, before she says, no way. On the other end of the phone. And so it was just kinda cool that literally a ten year, span, something went from being spoken literally into the air and coming to life, ten years later, so pretty amazing deal. Yeah, that's, that's your movie right there. I mean, I'm just wrote the stress it's one of those things I mean I wasn't there. But I mean those, those stories. And it is like a movie. And that's just an interstate the black right? And then off you go. But you didn't say the black album only. Only a little only make it a move if it doesn't show me fallen down rollerblade. The comedy. We're going to need that. But the good news is it didn't fade to black your story kept on going and as you know, my parents met at Ohio State, huge Ohio State fan. I remember this. Well, how say basketball program like you just said they kinda fallen on hard times. They had some success, Jim O'Brien out into the final four and then things didn't go as well. Right in, you guys come there and you can't go to the NCAA tournament. And I don't think you're having the season. You were really had a lot of you didn't have a lot of expectations this time. And then incomes undefeated, remember, correctly, Illinois, who going to become no matter, what happens, the number one seed in the tournament, the favourite to win the NCAA tournament. They come into your stadium, come into your house and tell us that story. Well, you know, it was amazing. They were twenty nine to know who was the final big thing game of the regular season. They had crunched us and champagne at the first game of the conference season. And so, you know, they had a unbelievable team Luther head the Brown, James Augustine Roger Powell. They, they were just phenomenal. And you know, we could go to the tournament that year, you know, the Ohio State at self-imposed penalty based on the violation from the previous staff. So our whole hashtag that year was pride because we couldn't play for any type of carrot, you know, the big ten championship, or, you know, in terms of even have we, we got to compete in the conference term. But we weren't even eligible to go the NCAA's have we even want it. So that game in a sense was. Kind of, like our NCAA tournament game you know, in a in a nutshell, and so, but our whole year that has our hashtag for that team was pride in, you know, since we can't play for anything external that team had the play for everything internal. And so, you know it's a we're, we're down by two and we have a huddle towards the end of the game. Coach literally sits down and ask the guys. Hey, you know, we can go for the tie. You wanna go for the win. And every guy in the huddle, you know, the discreet out, let's go for it. And so we had a play called winter and in a nutshell that was we ran a guy around a double screen, and one of the guys in the double screen kind of ten Ben for, for his buddy. That was in double screen and Matt Silvester pot back in shout. A three right in front of our bench. It seemed like the balls in the air for. Ever. You know, it's one of those moments where time slows down, it's going hundred miles an hour. And then all sudden time this whole two miles an hour. And so, you know, it's like all right, someday, this ball's gonna drop in the TV gonna hit the rim, or it's going to go in, and you know, low, behold, he drains it and we ended up winning the game just Gus Johnson and CBS did the call. You can do it. It's an amazing finish. And you know, storm the court and the whole nine yards, but that kind of set the tone for what we wanted to build because Illinois was what we were wanting to become. So we that win kind of helped us define ourselves by a, you know, sure this is a conference opponent, but they were the number one team in the country, and we eventually wanted to put ourselves in that same light as they were at the time. So I think it's allocated us at Val. Elevated us to future recruits, you know, the comedies and Odinga's, and they call and cooks and David ladies. And, you know, all the guys who've actually ended up coming Evan Turner's down the line. You wonder you know, warm recruiting class kind of validates another. But that win really, you know, just helped us plan our feet and say, hey, you know, we really believe we can do something special here as you're talking about, you know, it's funny you said, you can pull up on YouTube. We're in our little legal, our studio conference room. But we have it up on YouTube right now. And these guys are watching it that are in here with me for this cat. I remember it so well, and it is amazing. It's, it's the pri- part. And then we tied this thing into business. It's building that foundation future success is what we look at. Because right. It can't win the championship every year. You can't win it on every single play. But you can set yourself up with small successes and this is not a small success by any stretch. Right. But this is a big success. And this is a big moment for you, that catapulted you to the next level that leads you like you said, all those other things. But in business, we see it all the time like just go out there and get the win today. Go make that big moment happy, remember that down the road that what got you to where you are. When you are having even more success, right? Yeah. No, it always comes back to that. You're absolutely right. And that's what we were doing. I mean we, we just got hired and that was year one of us building a business. I mean that it just happened to be in the form of a college basketball program, but the, the ingredients of the same in terms of how you conduct yourself each day how you build a culture and piece it together and not just make sure that culture isn't just words on the wall or in a hallway or things that get passed out and put on, wrist bands. You know, it's gotta be lived out. And, and I think that's the most powerful thing about whether it's a team or business or anything is, is cultures great written down. But it it's most powerful when it's lived out. That's right. And so what, what I hear from you is this passion for the game is love for the game basketball. And you've talked with us about players that you had that it played for you that either love the game didn't love the game two players. You identified. And this isn't just the only two you have many. But we were just talking about the team, the success that you had went aircraft John D blur. And some of those guys were there that they had this love for the game of basketball, and it's I think it's obvious that in order to have incredible success with whatever you're doing you have to love what you're doing. And it's like you said you, you can write it down. But you have to live. It can't be manufactured like it has to be real. Tell me why loving the game is so important, and maybe like, why they aircraft John D blur and other players succeeded as a result for just loving the game so much. You know, Aaron arrives, right? When I left to go to Charlotte and, but I was around them a lot in the recruiting process, and you know, watching them play you a ton, and then obviously got to be around John for two years. But yeah, those two guys in particular. But you know, see a bunch of other guys that came through there. You know that were you start out maybe under the radar a little bit high school. Evan Turner, for instance, you know, rank, you know the late late top one hundred guy and ended up being number two draft pick, but they all kinda had that love for the game is what you're talking about. Eric, and I think the big thing and you know, we look for it in recruiting I think businesses should look forward in. Hiring is is people that enjoy what they do and have a true love for it. Enjoy their craft. Because in college basketball in particular, you know with. School. And you know the basketball side of it. It's a very demanding lifestyle, you know, guys basically has two jobs. And so the ability to manage your time and be responsible and do all those things at a high level. You know, requires an incredible commitment will usually it's very hard to be totally committed to something unless you love it. And so the thing I've always said in is that when a guy loves the game you can't ask him to do too much and not only that is because that love for the game. It's, it's going to most of the time ninety nine percent of the time, he's not gonna let anything get in the way of him, getting to do what he loves whether it's a girl or party or drug or a bottle or any type of off the court stuff. They just, you know, guys. I love the game just can't imagine not being able to do it. And so as a result, they conduct themselves in a slightly different way. And that, you know, they almost become whether they become pros from an NBA perspective. They come to conduct themselves like professionals, whether they become pros or not. And I think that's a huge distinction there. And he's probably say the business world. I'm sure you know, there's people that are pros at what they do in terms of maybe collecting a high salary and, you know, they're from a status perspective, but you can always be professional and how you conduct yourself in the way you go about your business. And that's what John was like. That's what we knew Aaron was going to be like that before even arrived at campus. And so Evan Turner was like that, just in terms of his commitment to develop and grow and, and, you know, Greg Oden Mike Conley had that even though they were on campus for nine months as one and done. You know, they were they still had an incredible commitment to what they did. Each day. I mean those two were literally, the last two guys leave the gym on a final four team as freshman every day. So no. I didn't mean drag on that very long. But I mean, I think that just giving it some background in terms of why that is and what makes those guys tick. And so I think it's so important in recruiting look for guys like that. And I think, you know, in addition from business management perspective, it's important to find people that love what they do. And how you know, make sure they really enjoy. And have that commitment to their craft no pun intended. No, I think it's great to carry on about it, because it shows the importance you have towards it when we brought in Giampiero you've talked to you before you know what we said is, if you don't like it here. Don't be here. But if you like it here, this isn't gonna feel like works you, you're just going to want to do the work. It doesn't matter what day of the week it is. You know you gotta have. Balance in your life. Right. Alignment, and everything that you're, but if you're doing these things, so I can imagine when you talk about my Colleen, Greg Oden when they're on, when they're staying at the gym, and they're the last ones, they're, they're not like hating every moment. Yeah. Sometimes it's not it's not gonna have the best day. But they're loving what they do. So they don't care about being extra hours. Exactly. Exactly. So as a result, it's, it's so easy. From coaching perspective to develop, you know, great partnerships, you know, with guys like that, because, you know, they're always meeting you in the middle. Sometimes they'll come across and, and in your line, and they'll, they'll, they'll be waiting for you before you get to the middle, but guys that maybe don't have that commitment level. You can always feel like you're trying to drag a pull them and you turn to make them want something more than than they want it. And so that's when it gets to be challenging so but that's the joy of not every guy in that not every guy that plays college basketball loves it. Now let's be honest, let's be real, but the ones that do they just they really ignite you as a coach because that's when it's, it's really special. That's right. So a lot of the players that you've mentioned, they had a lot of talent hit a lot of ability. They showed up ready to play. And there's, there's also raw talent right where you see somebody in again, this is we're talking about basketball. But this is is also in business, where someone has a potential to be someone rate in someone doesn't see it, but then you see it, and you're like you wanna make this happen. So you have a story about Michael Ola candy, we became the number one, pick in the NBA draft where he was seeing by one school or not seen, but he was heard about by one school. And they didn't believe that he ended up on your campus at a smaller right in the rest is history. Yeah. Yeah. Michael candy, you know, was I started coaching at the university of Pacific in nineteen ninety five and, you know, when I got there, I heard one of the assistants talking about some kids from London that he was talking to a Nigerian seven footer and, you know, as I'm on the job, you know, in this ensuing weeks, you know, you it really starts to sound like, hey, this kid's gonna come to campus and Michael's dad was in ambbassador for the Nigerian government in London. And so Michael was going to boarding school in London and, you know playing club ball which the equivalent of, you know, intermurals and so he had reached out to some American schools. You know, I think he'd call Duke he got an answering machine he called Georgetown got someone on the phone. They didn't believe he was seventeen. So he got mad and hung up. Up the phone because they wanted to send the scalp to verify it. And he, he didn't like that. And so we hung up. And so he you know as he's flipping through that green booklet American colleges and universities. He gets to the Ps and his thumbed, kind of just goes right to the beginning of the Ps randomly. And right at the top, you know, TA university of Pacific, he calls. So you know he ends up coming to campus. Coach Thomasson my, my boss at the time. Bob Thomasson, who's a fantastic. Coach is now retired from Pacific, but they've gone to pick up Michael at the airport, and you know are the three assistants. We're waiting on campus. Like it's Christmas day. You know, where's the here's a seven footer that's paying his own way. As a matter of fact, we didn't even have to use the scholarship, the first year until coach brings Michael to the gym. And, you know, we have a basketball, we're ready to kinda see, you know what's this guy got the first thing when he walked into the gym. He's every bit of seven feet every bit of it. So now, we really think it's Christmas day, right because he's not six four you or something some scam deal. He's every bit of seven. Feet. And so coach Thomasson basically says, hey, Michael Monchy Grover to the block and we'll throw you a few passes. We're not gonna burn you down. You know, as a workout, we just want you to do a couple of things you're comfortable with. And literally true story. Michael looked around for a few seconds. And then the three of us systems looked at each other. And we said, oh, he doesn't know where the block is. So we walk them over and we say, okay, Michael, this is the block. This is where you post up and so fast forward. In literally, a block of a chunk of clay, you know, block granted and he just because he didn't have any preconceived basketball experience. I think it just helped him flourish, because he had some natural athletic ability. He actually had a decent shooting touch. He's just didn't have any idea of how to go through the process of becoming a great post player. And so I'm not gonna take credit for actually one of the, the system coaches who worked with the big at the time got him wrong pearling spent most of the time with Michael, and we kind of coached him as a committee. But, you know, Ron coach the bigs on a day to day basis, and just phenomenal job to the point where three years later, Michael graduates in nineteen ninety eight he came over three years eligibility, so graduates in nineteen ninety eight averaging twenty two points, eleven rebounds, sixty one percent from the field. And three blocks per game. And he gets announced us at number one tick in the NBA draft. So in nineteen ninety eight so just, you know, I think that's story of being around him as much as anything taught me about always remaining committed to individual develop for players, because I've seen it from its most raw points to its highest point. I mean guy not knowing where the block was two three years later shaking, David Stearns hand, so that, that, that whole experience was him was a great humbling lesson for me as a coach is never, never, you know bail out on a player just say with them and be committed his development as long as he keeps, you know, coming into the gym and fighting for himself. You keep fighting for him. That's right. And you, you said this before you this lot of helping the one player one person at a time and it and that resonate so well with. Because that's what we do with our clients. We just got off a phone call with someone. And we were talking about, you know, we can say this, but it's actually do you played out in real life. And how can we have this business? How can we help this client right now, and everything else doesn't matter? It's like we're doing this podcast with you Ellen this, you. You're all that matters right now nothing else matters. And that's that's what you're doing. And when you do it with college students student athletes as they call rate or a professional, whatever level. It's at your helping that one player you've talked about it before you're like let's put basketball away. Let's put the phones away. Let's go get a soda Cup of coffee, right? I mean you just walk the campus with right player. And they're all that matters at that time, and they can talk about whatever's on their mind. Maybe it's not basketball, right? That's something you've young to a focused on quite a bit in your coaching career. It's important, I think every player needs to know that he's not just a player to you. And I think once the guy on the stands that he it's not he's not just a a player. You're not just a coach. He's a young man Muira a grown man. And you know, you're both in this together to help each other get better. And you know as players take their individual strides, whether it's manhood student player, you know, the come to the onus is back on us as coaches to find another way to help them improve. And so that's the essence of what the partnership means in, you know, that's the purest form of of, you know, relational development. Right is, is, you know, I get better. I, I go to a clinic, I get on the phone with NBA guys or European guys or, you know, I talked to emotional intelligence. Person or whatever it is. And if I get one nugget, I can take back in either give to my team or one individual player, you know, he's gonna hopefully, take that and, and bleed that in his personality or his own development, and then the kind of the healthy pressures back on me to go do it again. And then the healthy pressures back on him to go develop again. And that's you know, when we talk about helping people, you know, one on one like that I think understanding that it's a partnership, and when the guide knows that he's just not a player to you that you want to help him grow in every way. And, and, you know, one of the hashtags, we use the Charlotte was Mackrell, you know, when I was coaching there, and the whole point was, you know, we want to try to help them become to the absolute best version, as long as they're with us, the best version of themselves as a student as a player sometimes. Easy conversation because obviously basketball is kinda what drew them there. And then as a man and getting them, you know what would it look like if you maxed out in all these three areas and, and it's a process and it's not always easy. You have your you know hills you have your valleys, but as long as the guy knows it. You're in it with them and that you care about them and you want the best for him. And that it's about the next forty years. Right. It's not just about a graduation Basie. You later. Thanks for the points rebounds, assists, and you give them away. It's about, you know, when he gets his first job, or he becomes a pro or, you know the gets married, he has his, I kid, you wanna, you know, still be a part of guys lives, where you get that occasional phone call or text, or you get a wedding invite or those kinds of things. So I think when guys know you're you wanna be in it for the long haul. As opposed to just for the short term, I think it opens up a world of possibility as far as the, the, you know, their development and just the relationship as a whole. Yeah. And you're building these relationships and you're starting you're talking about like that house state Illinois game. You're building that foundation, not only for the team but for individual relationships that you're building. And I would imagine when you're on these walks and you look over at the player and he just looks a little bit groggy. Maybe from the night before is that when you ask your famous question of was it worth it? Well, you know, you hope you don't have to ask that too often, but, you know, guys are gonna do what college guys do. I mean, thank goodness, you know, with, with me, you know, you know, there was no Twitter or anything else around. You know you know back when I was in college we all had our moments. But I think that I think that's, that's so important is, is to be able to have the transparency to ask that question because I think that in itself in sometimes the guy will maybe gos- over it, and tell you the truth or tell you the truth. He, he made you say I you know, just kind of hung out and did this that and the third. But just, you know, they have the courage of a relationship in the transparency to be able to say that, like, hey, you know, you know, make sure that you. You know, 'cause then you get you get into taking care of your body and what that's about. So that's again, that's getting back to maxing out as a player, you're not gonna Maxell. There's a player if things at night, or lifestyle or you know, get in to AM, if that becomes important to you, then you're gonna miss out on Maxon yourself out. But what's funny is, you know it gets back to the guys that really love the game. And, and they wanna, you know, very rarely do those guys test the waters at that time of night, you know, they usually you're those guys are getting a bit, and they're, they're handling their business. Because again that buffer the game just does not is not going to allow them to put themselves in a position where they couldn't do with the, the very thing that they love. And enjoy they just they can't imagine being away from it. So as a result, they don't do anything to jeopardize it. Makes sense because I think that question of was it worth it? Or if you ask it to yourself, is it worth it before you even do it is it can be done in anything. Right. Could be done with the food that you're about to eat or the decision to make or the client, your belt to work with. So I mean that question when you talked us months ago that stuck with me. And I love that. And you know, it's just something you can always ask yourself, no matter if you're, you know, an eighteen year old college basketball player or if you're, you know, well into your career. So that's a it's a great thing on, I think these principles just they parallel each other. So, well, when you when you're watching college basketball, you've been around it, and you saw not only ten years ago twenty years ago today. Do you see that? The college game has changed and went the one in dines and everything else that's going on. Do you see the style of play the level of play having changed over these last five or so years? You know, I think you know, I think the parody thing is real. You know, I think we've all this, this year's probably produced it as much as any that the parody thing is real and see the, the NBA game has gotten younger over the last several years. And you know some guys at the mid major level, especially in college they had the ability to get older. That's the hardest thing in college basketball to do is it's hard to get old and sometimes it's hard to get old via, you know, guys going to the draft other times, it's hard to get old just because of guys transferring or you know, mid major players, you know with a graduate year that wanna go play at higher level. And all sudden, you know, an experienced group loses an eighteen point of the game score to a higher level school. So it's hard to get old. You again, for the time that you've given us the stories and everything else we've really enjoyed it. And we will talk soon you gotta pass man. I yet you hope to see so you got it. It was absolutely awesome. Having you on this podcast from the college basketball stories to the lessons in life. We are all better off for spending time with you. The perspective from Kotel and major on finding your passion in always giving your best are now perspectives you as a business owner and entrepreneur can use for yourself in for that, Allan. Thank you for any entrepreneur, or athletic director, with questions on all things basketball and leadership feel free to reach out to Alan if you want to connect with us. Hit us up on Instagram at sports IPE. Noor thank you for listening to the sports, apron, or podcast, the podcast for sports and entrepreneurship collide now go get it.

basketball NBA Evan Turner Ohio State University Illinois NCAA Michael candy California Lutheran university Alan major Coach Thomasson Ohio John D Aaron Allen Charlotte Allan Dunkin David Stearns
Episode 112: Tim Broderick discusses  biotechnology and increasing the biological aptitude and careers of elite special forces

STEM-Talk

1:22:05 hr | 3 d ago

Episode 112: Tim Broderick discusses biotechnology and increasing the biological aptitude and careers of elite special forces

"Welcome to stem talk. Stem. Stem, talk Welcome to stem talk for introduce you to fascinating people who passionately inhabit the scientific and technical frontiers of our society. Hi. I'm your host Carnegie and joining me to introduce today's podcast as man behind the curtain Dr Ken. Ford Agency's director and chairman of the Double Secret Selection Committee, that selects all the guests who appear on Stem Talk Hi Don d here today. So our guest today is after Tim Broaddrick who is a surgeon biomedical research and Development Innovator who has been a pioneer and laproscopy robotic tele robotic surgery he's had an absolutely fascinating careers at surgeon. A Darpa program manager and now as chief science officer here at IMC and Tim has evolved a large portfolio of cutting edge department of Defense, research projects throughout his career that we will talk about today, and we're especially looking forward to Tim's overview of the peerless operator biologic aptitude project, which he and his colleagues here agency are currently working on. So prior to joining agency Tim wasn't academic surgeon and a Darpa program manager as mentioned before and. During his four years as Darpa Program Manager, he conceived and established five high impact biotechnology projects that included revolutionary programs focused on precision diagnosis and treatment of military relevant diseases and injuries, and he's also led multiple ground flight other sea-based by medical research projects as a result, honorary NASA flight surgeon and a Noah undersea saturation diver before can I get to our interview with Tim Today we have some housekeeping to take care of I. We really appreciate. All of you who subscribe to stem talk, and we're especially appreciative of all the wonderful five reviews as always. The Double Secret Selection Committee has been continually and carefully reviewing is Google stitcher and other podcasts APPs for the wittiest and most lavishly praised reviews to read on stem talk. As always if you hear you review right on stem talk, contact us at stem talk at I h Mc us to claim your officials stem talk t shirt today. In review posted by someone who goes by the MONIKER CASEY DOT Mon.. The review is titled Stunning the Review Reads for the learner fascinated by so much in life and finds difficulty in the pursuit of one discipline. This podcast is a wonderful antidote, phenomenal content and conversations high quality production, and no hidden agenda just science and some humor, but mostly science I love it. Well he know what can we been gained some great reviews lately. So thank you so much Casey mine for this review and thank you to all other some talk listeners of how stem talk become such a great success. Okay and now onto today's interview with Dr Tim Broderick. Stem. Stem. Talk. Hi, welcome to stem talk. This is your host Don Cornelius and joining us today is Tim Broderick Tim Welcome to the podcast. Thank you don and also joining us as Ken Ford. illu Don in Hello Tim. Low Ken. So Tim less concerted you grew up in Cincinnati, and when you're a kid, it was the heyday of the big red machine. The Cincinnati. Reds of the nineteen seventies is considered one of the best baseball teams ever, and I understand that you often went to gains with your family. Is that right? I did very fond childhood memories big family outings, the Cincinnati reds. Back in the day, gave free tickets to straight a students in the Cincinnati area. We had a lot of kids in the family and a lot of smart kid. So we got a lot of straight eight tickets and to the big red machine see the big red machine that we were in the over called the nose bleed seats where the players look like Lance. Enough on the field but it was just amazing time every reds player seemed was on the National League All Star Team in the thing that I really loved you could go to a game and they could be losing to out bottom of the ninth and you still expected them to win and often they did Yes. I recall the nineteen seventy five world series between the reds and the Red Sox by all accounts not just my memory but baseball lore has it down as one of the greatest world series ever sadly, my team at the time the Red Sox lost. So can I have to say that something new I didn't know about you are the red sox still your favorite team. These days I don't really have a favorite team. I have a hard time supporting any of the professional sports franchises. So I really don't have any interest in teams anymore. There are lots of reasons for that most of which I won't go into but one of them is that in those days, you could really get to know a team they were your. Team the players didn't change every year so much and they were sort of part of the community, and of course, that's long gone soon, addition to the big red machine I suspect you also had really critical childhood memories of Apollo and the Moon landings as certainly I did as well. Did that play a role in your interest in space in science more generally? yes. It sure did like many of my generation Apollo was inspirational. It pushed me to explore inspired me to explore the world and science. Gosh. As a young child I guess at the time I was about five. So vivid memories of laying on the floor in her house just transfixed as the Black and white TV image chin. In my hands is I watched Neil and buzz land on the moon it was just awe-inspiring. Interestingly a later in my life I, actually have had the opportunity to engage with Neil and Buzz Neil lived in Cincinnati the latter part of his life, and he came down to our surgical innovation center in sat at the console of our surgical robot actually was simulating operating on a patient I think he liked it and I also meant a society with buzz. It's focused on seeing space exploration. He is a pretty good diver. Sir Tim I understand that watching your dad's save someone's life and Church had a very profound effect on you. Can you talk about that a little bit? It was. About nine years old, we were coming out of church. Our family was almost to the car and a man suffered a heart attack in the parking lot and went into cardiac arrest and my dad raced over and performed CPR on him until the paramedics arrived and it was amazing to see that there were some gross details the man vomited in my dad continued to do cpr but he overcame all the challenges and saved his life. His family was needless to say extremely appreciative and came over and thanked my father profusely that sorta typified my dad it was kindness sacrifice to help others described his life in that event in my father's life inspired me to become a doctor. and. It sounds like does characteristics carried throughout your entire family and we'll talk about that a little bit later in the podcast to you. But also understand that you had another experience helped shape you that has to do with having someone having their arm nearly chopped off by machete that right Unfortunately I have far too many trauma stories and as just as an aside I'll say that real life is crazier and more compelling than. that you would ever see on the screen big or small. So yeah, as I was trying to figure out my path in life specifically during college I worked night shifts as an orderly in a in a local e R one night car sped into the parking lot. The doors in the back hatch flew open and There was a young man in the back who's bleeding to death and his arm. was nearly chopped off by what I later learned was a machete. you know adrenaline fueled superhuman strength I reached down with my right hand and grabbed his act zillah in the major blood vessels there to stop the bleeding and then I reached down with my other hand grabbed his belt in almost you know pressed him over my head as as I raised him into the Trauma Bay and. The guys are big guy to in one single motion. You know maybe Ken could do this Ah In my hey day when I was in better shape, I was a little stronger but I definitely I shouldn't have been able to lift them up the way I did but I helped save his life. is also the You know the first time I got to go the or it was I. Guess Serendipitous that my hand was stuck to his skin by. The pool had dried my hand and skin to his skin and I couldn't take my hand off before in the operating room otherwise, he would have bled to death. So it was A. definitely a time when I realized what you could do as a surgeon and I learned that surgeons could help save lives but I you know I also learned some other life lessons with that experience. The one as I briefly alluded to humans are indeed capable of superhuman acts which has been hammered home throughout my career trauma surgery It takes a lifetime to create something, but it takes a second to destroy it and I guess the final was talking to the doctors and the nurses and the surgeon around time. Learn what others can teach you. But sometimes, you need to ignore their advice and it was funny going back through the Trauma Bay and into the operating room I finish that experience in a number of the doctors and nurses and must have thought that I did a pretty good job as an orderly and they were like, Oh, you ought to go into medicine you oughta go into surgery and then they said Oh you really ought to drop out of computer science because computers are were really never going to amount to anything. So. you know sometimes you just need to do what you know is right. That's a great story. Love it. Many lessons learned I read in the newspaper maybe ten or fifteen years back about a quarrel between two brothers overs Iraq of ribs. And one decided he didn't have enough ribs and the other was holding out on him and all the ribs. So he whacked the rather in his arm with an axe. And the outcome was predictable. Yeah. There's amazing trauma stories I have. Darwin Ian is maybe a good way to phrase some of them but yeah from. Shooting and stabbing. Throwing, gasoline and lighting people on fire while they're driving in the car you know it's. Just. Crazy. Stories and this guy could've used Tim Broderick to drag him into the into the surgical space. So, Tim, I've known you for a while now and I have to be honest I find it hard to believe as a teenager you used to pretend to be scooby DOO is that true? And can you talk about that a little bit? I pretend is maybe the wrong word as a performer. Perform maybe a better word so. In High School I was a character that's what they call us at a well-known. Amusement Park and national events such as MLB Games parades. It was an amazing job for many reasons and in fact, my wife's still tease me that I consider that the best job I've ever had. Scooby dues not as popular now as he used to be but goodness, he was beloved cartoon character at the time you know we had fifty thousand visitors day in the park that I worked at in the kids would race across this main mall to see scooby doo run up and then dropped their pants to show me. They're scooby DOO under whose. Scaring me there. So. Yeah. They're Scooby Doo Andrews or just get big huge smile. Big a big hub. But the things that they did and that job still brings a smile to my face did Scooby Doo ever say anything you're not supposed to so yeah, it was all A. Very, creative performing, but you know a better than one of those bad mimes that you see. By Hand. was extraordinarily hot I will have to say no. So similar to Florida, Cincinnati and you know of the surrounding area gets quite hot and humid in the summertime. Those were very expensive professionally made costumes and it was you know hundred plus degrees outside in you're wearing you know three or four essential for coats. So it was. It actually took quite a bit of stamina to thrive in that job as well. That's really cool. Tam Lesson learned about you. That's awesome. So I will definitely look at you in a different light to read some Scooby Doo literature. Yeah. Okay. So we've talked a little bit about this already and growing up the fact that you've had all these influences and wanting to become a doctor for the first question is how early on did you know that she wanted to become a doctor at big picture? We know that you have this huge family that's filled with doctors and the next question for you is, is it true that your family was sometimes referred to as the Kennedys of medicine? Yeah I forget which reporter said that you know my parents. A already mentioned my dad My mom was also was a fabulous role model. She was a nurse we had a lot a lot of family members who were doctors six of seven kids went to medical school. Thank we have twenty something physicians in the extended family, just a huge number and that's a testament to my family in particular my parents incidentally, if you get on the Internet and search to check that fact out, you will see a lot of doctors and nurses and our extended family but I will preemptively correct something you may run across this fact I am not related to Matthew Broderick. Or. At least a Matthew Broderick that you're thinking of. I think I. Think Tim. When you first came on board you know that he's really to Matthew Broderick. Matthew, Broderick is my Godson actually who's a he is a doctor, a hosp liston. Unfortunately, you know talk about sacrifice. You know we talk about sacrifice riskin sacrifices serving in the military he takes care of covid patients in he. You know I I'll say he got exposed. He's he's recovering from covid right now. After graduating from high school, you decided to attend the. University. Xavier's in Cincinnati where where you're at the time that must have played a role in your decision to attend Exurbia what were the other factors in that decision? Yeah. So Xavier's an excellent school and it helped educate a large number of my family members all of my brothers and sisters went there and then went onto you know as I mentioned Ucla Medical, school medical school at the same Place University of Cincinnati in my case you know I have I had a little bit of a one the Wunderlist when I was young but it was primarily driven by cost and my dad was a family practice doc he did not make enough. Money to send seven kids too expensive universities spread across the country at full ride merit scholarship offers, but it still was too expensive to go out of town, and so I went to a double majors and a bunch of minors worked at emergency room at night shift. It was overall a fabulous informative experience and the one thing I will mention probably played a role. My mom was a devout Catholic and Xavier, a Jesuit University. So my mom was happy when her kids went to Xavier. So Tim I don't know many people who have to college the idea of doing a double major in Chemistry and computer science out of that come about. So going back a little farther into my childhood I liked doing things with regards to chemistry. I used to do experiments when I was in grade school and high school around the house around the neighborhood, and maybe a positive example of that is I built a laser chemical laser helped me win the science fair for example, in the latter parts of grade school but you know I guess hearkening to my future time at Darpa you're not. You're supposed to not be afraid to fail. So some of my other chemistry experiments catastrophically failed. and. There are some really good stories I can tell but those are probably better for later time. But those experiments, Mike curiosity especially, some of the ones that failed and you know I wanted to learn more in from a computer science standpoint I mean that was exciting and new at the time. The first exposure I think I had to a computer. Gosh once again, grade school there is someone who worked at a large. I. Think it was actually an aerospace company ran an based in the Cincinnati area. They had access to a mainframe brought some very old desktop computer did not have a screen. But basically, they brought a bunch of the boys from the neighborhood over to take a look at the latest and greatest science, which was this computer and I played some you know text based computer game and it was just you know awesome from my standpoint. So that sorta speech Mike initial curiosity, and then as I moved through high school and college I just fell in love with the creativity the applied logic in the problem solving that is programming in college the computer science classes were by far away my favorite classes maybe once again, a sign of things to come. A my senior project in college for Computer Science was an AI program that was focused on playing checkers in improving the competition that they provided to. That was a fun senior project, and we went all the way from designing and programming it down to building the compiler to assemble it. It was nuts and bolts beginning to end of just a fun project. And I'm going to say, can don't ask me for the details because been waiting on. Well. You mentioned chemistry experiments and those of a certain age. You will recall that most little kids or many many little kids had chemistry sets typically in their basement. It's kind kinda like kids having computers, our ipads or something, and there were many odiferous experiments. And Do you recall that Tim it wasn't unusual for kids to have these sort of pre assembled chemistry sets that they could then expand in? Improve in various ways. Yeah. I remember some odiferous some the film you know the foam that is coming out how do I phrase my catastrophic failures? We're a little more energetic. Spared my parents. Energetic experiments. We had a we are high school chemistry teacher was had the reputation for wind set things on setting things on fire and things blowing up so we had a couple of damage backpacks. Class Put it definitely increase our interests in chemistry. That's for sure. So definitely appreciate that that's the way science should be it should be engaging and fun. Inspiring that is. You know one of the shortcomings I have seen you know raising three daughters. You know we have fabulous schools they've been in science education is still tough A. Anyway. I'll leave it at that I. wholeheartedly. Agree with you on that on that front I had been lucky to have teachers and professors who engaged. That's that's for sure. So Tim you graduated from Undergrad and four years, and then eighty you decided to stay in town for Med school and you enrolled at the University of Cincinnati College of Medicine. So why Cincinnati the UC's an excellent school and once again, I wanted to limit debt that I incurred it may not be apparent to many of the listeners Is Undergraduate schools expensive you know could be one, hundred, thousand dollars a year now depending on where you go, which is just crazy but you add to that graduate school data and you know you can have hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt from medical school so I wanted to keep my. Options. Open. I. Didn't know all the way what I wanted to do good example I had started a surgical relief foundation and you took some people to Africa the Caribbean and other places to teach people how to operate and to auto care for patients and you can't do things like that. If you have so much debt that you have to service that you are basically just locked into practice and just focused on practice and the other thing about you see it's a very good clinical reputation. So there is a difference. In many of the medical schools you know some I had some friends who went to Stanford fifty percent of their classmates for medical school at Stanford don't practice medicine they're researchers there is a percentage at uc that you don't practice but in general, there was a very strong clinical foundation and many of the physicians that graduated from Medical School they're focused on clinical practice and then I guess is the final reason why that was a good choices at a lot of family members that went there and I knew that a good place. You mentioned that you weren't quite sure what? To do but throughout medical school, did you sort of have surgery in mind as the final goal or was that not unclear until toward the end? So I'm working. You know granted medical school is hard enough but I you know I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. Canada guesses is the short answer. The longer answer is I I was working in the emergency room like I mentioned still the first two years of medical school that is in part because the first two years are more of like biochemistry or pathology microbiology things. That are important but honestly, I already did those in an Undergrad. So I needed to figure out what kind of doctor I wanted to be, and you know the machete experienced that I talked about helped convince me that surgery was a strong option a also started to realize more and more through Celani experiments. Also, we were talking about I really like working with my aunts. Supposed to internal medicine and internal medicine, you might prescribe a medicine that was developed seventeen years ago finally is adopted into practice, and then you have to wait years and maybe you never hear how the patient you're treating response to that medicine. The thing about surgery is you operate on somebody you know how you did and you get feedback to continually improve your performance. That's the same in many of the other operational communities we deal with. It's like being a pilot for surgery open you do what you need to do in your clothes and it's very similar to you take off you do what you need to do and you land. Yeah. I've never come across the surgeon who told me later that? I don't think I. Did a very good job. Well. Hopefully, if you're not doing a very good job search and granted, there are some students who are not great I've run across that might used to have a referral practice. T took care of patients that had complications but hopefully, you realize after a while. Hey, maybe you know I'm not too good at this and find something else did. A fact I know a person who did just that he just repurpose what he would do in medicine and the reason I think I never had one say they did a poor job was because I pick so wisely. Yeah that insurgents have very strong. Egos Wasn't going to bring back. As you would want right. You want somebody who's pretty served solid. Yes. Surgeons and cardiologists, and incidentally preachers make the worst pilots. So I hear I also at one point was you know getting my pilot's license and flight instruction they told me you know listen it's the worst combination of making enough money to buy a high-performance aircraft and then not having enough time to remain proficient in an and then believing that you can do anything you know extremely well, they said that you know that's why the bananas were known as Dr Killers you know and and then from the pre stamp point. They said they were terrible because you know they just say I'm going to put everything in God's hands. On the only other anecdotal say is that I also heard that having to flight instructors in the cockpit at the same time can be problematic. They're fighting over who has the control sometimes I can't even. The Tim for your residency landed in Richmond Virginia as a surgical resident at the Medical College of Virginia, which is now known as the Virginia Commonwealth University Medical Center. So what led you there. So. Initially, I was interested in being a heart surgeon. I had a brother WHO's a cardiologist who? warned me hey, don't become heart surgeon because we're GONNA do everything minimally invasive -ly with stents and other in other technologies but I was fairly sure I wanted to be a heart surgeon though they had a good heart surgery program there at once again, very strong clinical training I did not want to be one of the surgeons referred to, for example, Khodadad as a nickname hands of death and destruction. The. Criticism was that you know the surgeon cannot operate his way out of a wet paper bag. You know that is definitely I did not want to be a bad surgeon from a clinical standpoint. So that was a strong reason why I picked MCB had you know very busy clinically based practice from pediatrics all the way through trauma they were at the time was the second highest per capita murder rate in the United States unfortunately. So we had very busy trauma surgery experience there it was. Long and hard back in those days hundred twenty plus hours a week. Finally, three months after I started I had my first meal outside the hospital and within a short period of time thereafter met my lovely wife Cara although we dated for a fairly long time during residency. If you talk to her because I was working every other to every night. So it extended out the time we're able to spend with each other. During your residency became interested in minimally invasive surgery, you talk about what leads you to becoming the director of surgical research at vcu minimally invasive surgery. Center. Yeah. So despite the fact that you know people were telling me that computers were never going to have an impact in medicine. My computer science education became increasingly important and relevant minimally invasive surgery for those adult now is using video cameras and small diameter instruments that sort of long instruments a make very small incisions and you're able to operate on patients essentially using these long chopstick instruments to do things like take out gallbladder so that that revolution is powered by digital technologies video cameras, the surgical robots that I worked on and worked with allow the smaller incisions in an translates into faster recovery unless pain for the patients, it was a super exciting time sort of powered by the digital revolution. Loss still working at Vcu, you became a consulting surgeon for Tele Medicine robotics with the NASA Medical Informatics Technology Applications, consortium I'm sure there's inaccurate him for that. What did this work entail? What was your connection with that consortium? If he s you are right that there is an acronym might tack they called it At least some people call it based on my interest from the Early Childhood in space exploration, I wanted to help develop technologies that were experts. Enabling. So specifically as a surgeon and computer scientist, I wanted to start by improving expeditionary medical care and focus on what are call you know surgery in space at the time in NASA was doing somewhere can tell a madison or providing medical care using telecommunications links that was just still at its infancy. We push that field significantly forward you know nats pre routine actually because if you think you know many listeners may have had experience with Covid, of having to do zoom or some other VTC with their doctor. So he is now accepted. It was not accepted at the time, but we wanted to push it further than that. Bang for the buck the use of telecommunications and informatics to improve diagnosis. It's easier thing to do but we pushed towards the development of Tele Surgery Systems. In that instance, what happens is you have a video image, but you have a robot use the you know air quotes robot where if you connect the control of the robot controller the console to the end of factors on the other side with a telecommunication link, you can start off rating. Over you know fairly profound distances you know maybe from the Earth to the moon, it becomes a little bit more challenging as you go farther and farther away from the earth. But those computer aided surgical systems asserted robots are now part of the practice of Sir you know thousands of systems spread across the world but at the time they were not and you know, I, mentioned trauma surgery that's a good example was originally developed. For Space Fight and for trauma surgery caring for injured warfighters on the battlefield. But trauma surgeons in general hated the robot as it was first developed because it's just wouldn't help him but just to give you an example what I'm talking about that the intuitive surgical system that Davinci robot is You know one that is now widespread, and that gives us sort of an example of what I'm talking about to the listeners and actually many of the listeners probably have been operated on by surgeons that are using the Davinci robot. Can you talk about some of the early work you did in laparoscopy robotic and Tele Robotic Surgery, I know you've just touched on it but I think there's more to say about this subject. Could you elaborate a little? So, the my interest in surgical robotics started at NASA Matak. Initially, there were to surgical robotics company one was called computer motion. Initially, the development of that system was funded by. NASA for space exploration as we started to develop that there was a competing system that was funded by Darpa and the US army. That's the intuitive surgical DAVINCI ROBOT I mentioned. So they had a legal battle they ended up essentially almost suing each other out of existence, and then they merged and moved forward into the system that we know today. But the interesting part of that you know surgery is a stereoscopic by manual procedure. You know you're an apprentice, you watch somebody operate you help them operate in. It's basically you see with your eyes, you stick your hands in somebody and you operate on them, you make them better. The surgical robots originally were cable driven him manipulators. So it was still the same thing except you were just separated from the patient a little bit and you could have some benefits but they were cable driven analog in what the real breakthrough was that we helped was the moving to a surgery by wire system at digital system that allowed us to do some amazing things and leverage digital technologies that we're all familiar with. Video being one of them, but the biggest impact is still yet to come is that we can collect data when we're using that robot as opposed to the manual procedures that we used to perform, we actually can collect a lot of data and improve the training, the outcomes and the technologies that allow us to take care of patients better. So we have developed and evaluate systems for use both inside and outside the operating room. There's a some first from our team cerdic robotic I. We were the first. To operate on a simulated patient in a desert by bouncing the communication signal offer you a v. and that's commonly done now that they didn't even have digital communication links really at the time for a small UAB. So that was an interesting I in Nima missions. We were the first to operate under simulated patient in an underwater laboratory off the coast of Florida. A surgeon in Canada controlled the robot that was down off the coast Aqui Largo That was an amazing experience probably be good to discuss a little further. and. Then we actually developed an acceleration compensating robotic system for use in space we flew a robotic system robotic system and overcame the challenges presented by zero G to operate on a simulated patient within the vomit comet in probably the most relevant to today's practice of surgery, we were the first operate with the DAVINCI system remotely and wants to a simulated patient, and that was interesting because we moved finally into the Commercial Internet as a communication link as opposed to dedicated a synchronous transfer motor atm banking networks, and then moving onto. The. Division of Gi and Conservatory yet, division chief was a logical step in my academic career. At that point, I was still an academic surgeon in interested in moving up through the ranks to eventually become chairman at someplace in a hold leadership positions in the national surgical societies. So that's the primary reason why Just, moving up as a good sign that they asked me to run that division around the same time. I also transitioned from associate professor to full professor of surgery with tenure and tenure. You know it's important for researchers. Probably, it's not as important for clinical insurgents are docks, but you know as I started to do more research with a NASA, the Army Darpa It was a good idea for me to get tenure and that happened around the same time. I don't think tenures of much value however, if you don't get it in a place that offers it, you will be sorry. So. Now, other words if it's available, you should get it because the consequences termination is eventually i. think it's an outdated artifact but. Saying that when it was time to get it, I wanted to have it. Makes Sense. Stem talk is an educational service of the Florida Institute for Human and machine cognition a not for profit research lab pioneering groundbreaking technologies aimed at leveraging and extending human cognition perception, look emotion, and resilience. Can you talk about how your interest in experiences thinking about medical support for astronauts in particularly remote surgery led you to becoming an astronaut in crew member for Nasr's Nemo Mission Nine. So I was interested in surgery and space pushing that forward and I found that we weren't making as much progress as I would like or hope I wanted to make progress hopefully transition to flight. But for sure push the systems forward in a way that was helpful in space. In, an unearth in was also hopefully inspiring for some people that were you know robot assists or surgeon. So they could start working on the technology and I heard about this Nima program NASA extreme environment. Mission Operations Program sounded ideal could spur catalyzed the development of technology and also provide some potential inspiration briefing materials for those astronauts or program managers in the military that weren't that we're trying to push robotics technology for. So I, talked to Bill Todd Bill Is. A trainer for astronauts NASA actually second. Generation. Is Dad did that as well? He started this Nima Program learned it as a patty dive masters. We thought I'd be a good crew member. Now that's important because it is underwater sat diving technical diving at least at the time in, it's challenging and unforgiving part of the reason. The NASA uses that you know this challenging and unforgiving environment is it's a lot like flying in space. So do something wrong in space it can be catastrophic you can injure yourself damage to stationer die at sort of the same basic concept for Nemo. So I was backup crew member actually for name of. Two Thousand and four for fortunate than I guess to have done a good enough job to be offered to train and the astronaut office and serve as mission. Specialist three and she science officer for Nema Nine and two thousand and six, and then also in twelve in two, thousand seven. Sytems says an aside, your support was one of the reasons that I had the chance to join. Nemo as a crew member in two thousand, sixteen Alpha ever be grateful for that opportunity and as you mentioned, you are a part of Nema twelve as well and I believe that you also have logged the most time underwater as Nemo Aqua not. So congrats on that accolade. So, what research did you focus on for the Nima twelve mission and even for the Nemo I mission? Can you kind of give us a high level summary? Don. You did a fabulous job as a crew member an EMA crew member I don't know if I still hold that record I think I might for the most number of days and sat from the office. So yeah, what am nine and? Then a little bit in twelve. We explored more surgery and Space Nima nine had surgical robotics as a focus. But we also looked a lot at telemedicine and Tele proctoring how to help Asher not be able to perform a lifesaving medical procedure. If they're the crew medical officer, not a doctor but we did some Tele Operation as I mentioned, you know the surgeon in Canada controlling the robot down in. The interesting thing that we started to explore was so what happens when you start adding communication latency over a lag time? What we we added was lag time with minimal from one hundred microseconds through a couple of seconds that would take for a signal to go to the moon for example, and we found that if you get about five hundred milliseconds, it becomes very very hard to operate. As you might expect, it becomes even more challenging when you're operating a real person because the tissues are moving in their deformed but at five hundred milliseconds if you the jitter or which is the stability of the lag have had a stable connection at over five hundred milliseconds. Basically, what happens it takes? Ten minutes to kneel through the tissues and then tie the suture which is obviously just not feasible became apparent than those experiments that we needed to add some automation or some autonomy into the robotics system for it to be able to be useful as we moved farther away from the Earth. So it might work on the space station you might be able to. Do some suture laceration. For example of some cut, themselves might be able to do some dual-use biomedical experiments from the ground to the station but increasingly. Likely to be a benefit as your move from the low-earth orbit to the Moon to Mars and beyond and so that's what we then moved into Nima twelve with starting to look at some technologies to mitigate the communication today, and that includes some autonomy You know some machine vision and the robot actually starting to carry out some of the tasks so I can start a needle into a blood vessel in Nemo twelve and the that work continues. It's awesome and you and I've talked about the similarities between an operational environment like Nemo or space fighter like we were talking about a little bit earlier in the podcast, high precision aviation and the operating room. So were there lessons learned in the operating room as a surgeon that crossover into the Nemo Mission? Yeah. Probably the you know is a another. Yes. Life lessons can put in quotes but entered interdisciplinary teams are mandatory if you went to discover an translate with impact. In the operating room if you don't have a functioning team, you will not be able to affectively operate on a patient and that's the same fight. You know the Cook Crew Resource Management and flight I won't go into some of the other negative stories I've seen about surgeons, throwing instruments and sticking into the wall or you know haranguing the nursing staff telling them they're gonNA, kill the patient by doing something the surgeons that are that self unaware end up being ineffective in. The Operating Room and you can have catastrophic failures because people are afraid to tell them pay what you're doing a stupid that sort of the same lesson that we've learned repeatedly in flight, you have to have a good functional team. You have to be a team leader. Sometime, you have to be a team member at other times and you know that message was hammered home in the name omissions. It's also been you know hammered home for me in the operating room as well. That's a good answer. Really good answer. So, just kind of counting on the name of a bit a mission like generate so many great memories and experiences. Just as an example, our crew played go fish being cheeky one evening before we're getting ready to go to bed and we were all sitting together at the at the table inside the habitat and watching all the nighttime faunas swimming outside the window, and that's definitely a memory that I will never forget and obviously just super thankful for all the friendships that were also made during that mission. Can you share one or two favorite memories from your time underwater with Nemo kick ass it's so hard to just pick one or two. We know sitting around a table and talking with your crew mates we similar experience when. We were there in the spring Qatar. Had Slip Hurricane came through and we had a slip. So we're there when it was springtime in a wider with colder. But the benefit of that was we saw these creatures spawning in which I had. Never thought I would see an emission and we'll never see again to see see that happening you know the. The transition was amazing. I don't know if you had this sort of same experience. So. You can tell me. So at the beginning you get down there you're super excited you're a visitor. In undersea visitor and you're sort of inside the aquarium as opposed to you know normally we're like the person on the outside of the aquarium looking at the fish you know that are swimming around on the inside of the Korean. All the reef inhabitants are looking through the windows at us with great curiosity especially in the Nima nine mission. Eventually, we were no longer visitors we were living there among the inhabitants of the reef they started a treat us like we were. Supposed to be there and you know a good example of that. We had a couple very large Goliath groupers. You may have had the same who stand there they greeted us every time we went outside at nighttime they would peek. Through the window as we're going to sleep and take a look at us just checking on us and they were like actually so much like pets and this is bad I guess little anthropomorphic. anthropocentric. that we had a names renamed after one of the astronauts dogs and they were just like good dogs you know would come and join us as we are gearing up and then go down on her walks probably the greatest you know. Two more experienced experiences come to mind. I think the listeners would like. One was night die we went on so. You know it's a crazy busy schedule As you know, it's just like being on station. They have the time line with this red line. It's going through the day and you gotTa make sure you're staying on time but we had one night the opportunity to go on a night dive gear up your slimming away from the habitat and it's it's like going a gas because I haven't. Been in space, but it's like going into the blackness of space. If you're on surface of another planet, you're swimming away. He's the habitat your home in the light is fading into the distance and then it's just the black space. So you can look up you see the moon from the by the ocean, and then we started to see these stars in the water. You know what is. This. So as the bioluminescence plankton are on the sand that are on the coral and it was like Harry Potter, ask you wave your hand and they sparks would fly from your fingertips and you know it was just awe-inspiring the the beauty of nature the just the amount of things it we haven't discovered or experienced. That was a profound experience for all the crew members and along the. Same lines that say another very moving in touching experience for us. As we we were there Easter Sunday and we had a service that was for with some family and some friends from around the world. But we we held a memorial service for the SDS one is seven Columbia crew at the time, and that was needless to say very very moving as well. Just incredible experiences and definitely shared some of those that you described him. But yeah, for sharing this with us. So. Tim Beginning in two, thousand, three, you spent seven years as senior scientists and trauma portfolio manager for and let me see if I can get this right the US army medical research and material command telemedicine and advanced technology. Research, center. That is a mouthful. Can you talk about the work that you did during that period that is quite a mouthful. and NASA in the military both love acronyms. So we went by Patrick and I, was there because I wear combination of being a trauma surgeon, which is needs the same important in the military and technologist. So I was focused on developing systems to better train medical providers and improve the care of war fighters who were injured on the battlefield and some technologies developed their medical information systems. Surgical simulators are fairly common now, but they weren't at the time and surgical robots that we've already talked about a bit. So in two thousand ten, you became a program manager for Darpa or the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency for our listeners. Now realize that you're not at liberty to talk about some of the work that you did it Dr Bob. But one thing you did was to develop bio compatible nanna platforms that enabled in Vivo Diagnostics, which is really interesting and rather revolutionary development key talk about that work a little bit. Sure. So. I guess a little background for the listeners who are not familiar with Darpa Darpa. You probably know technologies that have been created by Darpa Internet. In fact, was not Al Gore. It was do tell. Ya. So. One tactic I jim SIA listeners might be familiar with a Darpa project spawned Siri and that was developed in part by agency in another group called. Sri That just gives you back on their plenty of technology the rockets on the Saturn. Five rocket engines on Saturn five for example, another another example. GPS. So plenty of examples I went to Darpa and I started a whole bunch of programs you know by the time I left about one hundred, million dollars a year as research portfolio about one of the things that was inspiring to me, and there was a famous physicist named. Richard Feynman listeners might be familiar. You gave a lecture titled. There's plenty of room at the bottom and you know nanotechnology. No is the name of a very familiar buzzy were now, but there is like no biomedical applications At least they were very limited at the time in fact, like the FDA at the time was pretty much just concerned about nanoparticles because they thought they were toxic. So I figured that there was an opportunity there. So we started a program called in Vivo Nanno platforms or VN, and this was focused on developing safe bio compatible nanoparticles that would revolutionize diagnosis and treatment. Of Diseases and trauma traumatic injuries that we really had like no good solutions for one of the diagnostic applications was detection of infectious disease like you could use these technologies for example, to detect. Early, if someone has been exposed to cove it a good example you can look up on the Internet. There is From Duke, they developed this technology coat inverse molecular sentinels. So it's a little nanoparticle that win get exposed to DNA or an Ra of from the patient or from for example, the virus it goes from off to on this Ra binds to another specific or a in causes a conformation change it sorta swings. Reporter molecule close to this nanoparticle it's serving as a Nanno amplifier and with that you can say, Hey, by shining the laser on it, you can say, Hey, this person has been exposed to this particular disease. very interesting program of course, some bias to Sorta like one of my children. You get very attached to your programs It was A. Very. Interesting program that has been spun off into other programs at companies and is still having impact. Very interesting you mentioned concern about safety associated with nanoparticles. I had a sport coat made for me once a long time ago probably about the same era, he a made from some phenomenally expensive fabric from Italy that had a Nanna scale pattern of Lotus leaf. You couldn't see it. Of course, on it would render it remarkably waterproof and You could go to restaurants and you know take the sauce import on your arm and just slide off but I had a colleague who upon learning this was terrified to be near me where. She was also at Darpa by the way. And I. Try not to wear it. When I knew she would be at the meeting not to cause a concern. But the if people remember that era anything Nanno was very much in scrutiny same as always can he always has a better story than I do? Yeah. So yet another instance of that, I would definitely if you formulate nanoparticles in the wrong way, they're toxic but on the flip side of that, for example, like silver particles for her back to your side on the kill bacteria. So it's a dual edged sword they're small enough that they can go places and do things that are otherwise otherwise would not be able to do. But if you design in the wrong way are put them in the wrong place there they can be toxic and that's true of many many things. Well, that was a great explanation, tim of some of the programs at Darpa and while you're there, you develop some specific modular nanotechnologies that permitted really flexible targeting for improvement of diseases such as antibiotic, resistant bacterial infection, and this is one that a lots of people have had unpleasant experiences with as well as traumatic brain injury applications as well without going to detail. Could you briefly give our listeners a little insight into how that might work? It what prompted main to go to? was that I, had seen too many people get sick and die. So the Infectious Disease I made another program will helped people suffering some from sepsis but you know back to are the stories of trauma. Whether or not it's a student athlete or a warfighter that hits their head when they're jumping avenue of an airplane or gets exposed to a blast. When they're out on the battlefield TBI, you know I saw just too many people who were injured in suffering from traumatic brain injury or two guy. In fact, there's still no good treatment for TV I we're still looking for treatments but what we did in this particular application, they said there were some concerns about using the solid metal nanoparticles that we're talking about for the diagnostics. So we. Developed a nanoparticle did not have this metal cores and then we developed is probably a little bit too much detailed to go into but due out some special targeting proteins proteins allowed the nanoparticles to go through or crossed the blood brain barrier in specifically target injured brain cells, and just putting these targeting proteins on. He'd given I the dosing this medicine, and it would be forty times higher concentration in the brain that would if you didn't have them. So that was you know big step forward potentially would improve the treatment and. Limit to side effects, the other interesting part of this was here's a billions of dollars research an industry that was going on to use anti sense therapeutic technology developing and use it others accompany that we worked with that has developed some anti sense go nuclear tides that helped with like some pediatric neurologic disease that were here to for untreatable these anti sense nuclear tides are sequence specific for the DNA or our that's in it, and therefore you can use these nanoparticles to deliver these payloads in a manner that you can. Precisely. Target the problem you're talking about and so is personalized molecular based treatment in the application interested in as we were talking about is I saw one of these anti sense go nuclear tides are ACO's and do some EPA genetic changes that limited neuro inflammation and actually improved at least in an animal mile improve the ability recovered some of the ability of that animal to think and you know have their cognitive performance after a Tbi, just a fascinating program wasn't gonna I'm biased but also a potential solution with. Such profound impact. Absolutely. Totally. Agree Tom After your work as program manager Darpa you became the Chief Science Officer Right State Research Institute. So how did that come about? So. DARPA, pro-gay managers you're there three or four years, and that's part of the way Darpa designed you want new people to come in in develop new programs. So my time came time for me to leave. I wanted to continue to do military related biomedical research and W Sri State Research Institute is located across the street from the Air Force Research Laboratory soon, performance wing. So that's the reason why one of the reasons why I went there at the same time I still wanted to maintain my academic medical career and was associate Dean for research at the race, State University Boonchu, School of Medicine. So one of the first projects that we teamed up bond together, Tim was to look at coldwater mitigation strategies for divers, and it's funded by office of Navel Research, and one thing I like about the work that you have done is that it is focused on direct development of solutions for the end user, which is similar to the research that we do it. I gem see Sahara's does this type of research differ from basic science in your mind and what drew you into this type of research. I think it's both both are important. Basic Science is important and applied research into out. -Ment is you know it's also important. Basic Science is at the discovery the intersection of disciplines you need to have that discovery to power the translation transition with impact, and in order to do the basic science, you need interdisciplinary team with team members have very deep expertise in their respective fields, and then you need someone who can translate service a facilitator in one of the most rewarding things you see is these team members sitting around the room wondering why the hell her there and then often boom. You see this light bulb go off and they say. This is how we are trying to solve this problem and that's where the magic happens. So and then the applied research you take that is developed that you know new discovery in. Innovation. Because that's sort of trite word but. What you need to then add in is some people who know what the problems are in can help you transition or translate it with impact. So the applied roll it occurs at the intersection of discovery in the practical application in really to have impact we gotta translate the basic science discovery into some usable solution and it is critical to understand what are the pressing unmet needs of the end user in. That's true whether or not. It's in surgery with an undersea or spaceflight, and you know with that, I am a big believer in technology poll. So you need to have that need and then you pull forth what is the solution you know from a whole bunch of different technologies integrate them together I? Am Not a big Fan I. Don't know about you know can you or dawn, but from a technology push? It is good to develop fundamental technologies but in general, there's a lot of people try to apply technologies that are GonNa just not work where they're trying to apply them. So Technology Pool is important and I'd say once again, probably the key for that as a team leader or a facilitator who can take the basic science tech people in the operational and users and communicate the problem in the solutions well enough. So he end up with some effective solution. `continuing on that theme and along the same lines, I h, m, C and and you before you were at ICI even started working together on a project referred to by their acronym fight. That's P. H. I t. e. and could you expand a little bit on this multi institutional effort of which you were the leader just give us a escort on fight yeah. I love that project and I love. I should say I love this project because it's still going on but that's another one don mentioned the office of Navel. Research this is a multidisciplinary university research initiative or Murray what you're sort of the you know big or sought after programs Gosh. We're in it's. Sort of the end of the fourth year moving into the fifth year. Now, as you mentioned that acronym is fight for precision high intensity training through EPA genetics and I guess to give better give a little background what EPA genetics is. Yeah. So when it literally means upon the genome and when I was in medical school, everything was about genetics and that's part of the reason why I didn't really pictionary because our understanding at the time was like, yeah. So what are you going to be able to do with your understanding of genetics? Maybe as a cancer surgeon, you know because there's a lot of oncological work I could have done something but if you ask yourself a question. You. Know why? If all our cells have the same DNA is one sale skin cell and other Selah Blood Cell and another one brain slow and that is whatever genetics is all about. So beyond the DNA, there's some chemical modifications of the DNA or chemical modifications of these things got his stones which the DNA raps and stories around that are the mechanism that allows us allows her body to differentiate into different tissues to develop as we age and respond to environmental stimuli. A good example You might think you know you lift weights your muscles get bigger. Yeah, hopefully. Get bigger. And stronger So we realized that it there's a of people currently in new United States across the world who I guess comfortable with a sedentary lifestyles maybe a good way to phrase that. In addle inadequate physical fitness it really challenges the warfighter and the readiness of our armed forces. So We d proposed a project that would improve warfighter fitness by determining what what training on what's your best suited to into individual warfighters by understanding the EPA genetic mechanisms that underlie the changes to training specifically hope to be able to determine when, for example, our war fighter has reached peak performance and provide them the quickest and most optimal pass to getting they're. Very. Good good explanation. It's exciting project I. Think and I do think it will have meaningful results. A thank you for the kind words and Once again I am biased but I agree with you. That's a good thing. So last year you came on board here at I see as our chief science officer and as a senior research scientist needless to say everyone agency is quite pleased to have you join our happy tribe and right now you're working on a project that is part of a Darpa program known as Measuring Biological Aptitude Program or M B a the crux of MBA is correlating the externally observable physical, behavioral and cognitive features as well as traits of specialized military operators that is correlating their pheno types with measurable elements of their biology to understand ultimately anticipate how they will perform in various situations over time, can you give listeners an overview of the goals of Mba beyond my brief description? yes. So I won't comment too much on what the program goals are other than to say that we have been training who warfighters as a selecting and training them essentially the same way since World War Two you do some old school psychological and physical testing. You see how they do on their IQ tests and sub occasional us you have them run a few. Miles maybe do some pull ups and you say, Hey, you'd be a good infantry guy. You'd be a good pilot. You know you'd be a good special forces operator and that obviously is not optimal. What we are hope to do in this is to improve the process of selection but more importantly from our standpoint of training talking to the operators, they understand the limitations. Operators are pilots they say, you know what makes a good operator? What makes a good fighter pilot? We want someone who's consistently across their career as makes speedy and high-quality decisions as able to do that under great stress and recovers from that stress well, and then the other sort of ingredient to that depending on which unit you're in his understanding of teams. You know you know when someone's a good team member, but it'd be a good way to measure that optimize that would be helpful as well. So. That is the MBA sort of program goals. I won't talk for the program manager with that sort of thumbnail sketch of what programs about. Very good. So tours and you've assembled an interdisciplinary research team developing science and technology with the aim of raising the performance of elite warfighters, enrolls special operations and fighter pilots, and the project is known as peerless operator, biologic aptitude or just peerless for short. Can you talk about how this project is being designed to increase the biologic aptitude of warfighters so that they can increase adaptability and resilience in extreme conditions Once again, they peerless operator biological aptitude is is a mouthful. and peerless a good short title for this because the goal is for us to have peerless special forces operators in peerless pilots. So the goal of the project is to develop a disruptive training platform that integrates you know this revolutionary molecular expression circuits that we briefly touched upon when we were talking about fight Selah danced predictive models that uses the latest and greatest machine learning, slash artificial intelligence, and then. Some novel real time centers that allow us to measure the performance of the operator or pilot in near real time. So let me go a little bit more detail on some of those. So this molecular and metabolic analyses we have like world leaders that are developing an exploring probably in folding this into this project that have things like single cell, Abba genetic analysis. So we talked a little bit. About, the DNA methylation in the old days still I. Guess since you know currently sometimes we do call bulk analysis. So you basically just like homogenize all the tissue or take all the blood cells and then you do these analysis across big set of cells, different cell types that have been exposed to different things and the interesting thing now is that we are looking at individual south to start. To. Be Able to tease out this signal from the noise in these key, but uncommon or rare Celtics and the other thing with the genetics. These liquid biopsies that the listeners may have heard of you know the the promise of drawing some blood from your vein in your arm and then being able to diagnose cancer throughout your whole body What happens is your cells release little fragments of DNA are. And then have some EPA genetic changes as part of them, and you can isolate these from peripheral blood and then sort of do a biopsy of the tissues across the body, which is fascinating. For example, if you're interested in knowing what's going on with a brain in the special operator or a muscle or you know some other tissues. So that's one of the cool part of that project. I won't go too much into the multi-layered Bio Analytical Platform There are some very cool new techniques that we have one of our collaborators particularly as a called plyer pathway level information extractor but I think that's probably better for another talk something that would I think listeners would like to hear you know. Many of the listeners probably are wearing some wearable device like a I or. Fit Bit well, I'll suggest an experiment. So take your watch off and then put it on the table and see what happens and for the next minute or two you're likely still going to have a heart rate recorded by that device needs to say that is it's not remotely monitoring your heart rate and there are some algorithms in there that because when you move your real around your arm around, you don't have high quality data the algorithm sort of fuses that data together and therefore estimates what your heart rate is what What we're doing in peerless developing technology edge detection of some very cutting edge wearables allows you to record like clinical grade, electrocardiogram, heart rate, heart rate variability data, and only good data, and another interesting part of that is we're also folding in Siri related technologies that I talked about. So that's automated speech analysis and language processing technologies to be able to assess you know how people are working with each other, how stressed they are and other things. So the integrated project has got some amazing team members and some amazing technology. and. Another important aim of this project is to develop science and technology that might contribute to extending the career of war fighters in the special operations community in particular, can you elaborate on this a little bit for our listeners? Sure you know we don't I I used to say as at Darpa say it now in this project, if we not going somewhere good, we're going nowhere we ought to stop. So the end users are whom this project is focused on, it has to provide them actionable information that they can use or we shouldn't be doing it. So I mentioned a little the edge detection of high-quality Fina it fizzy logic data that is something that they have interest in there used to wearing like garment and some other things which by the way I don't know if I should mention Garmon got as you saw got hacked. But Anyway we need secure collection of high quality data not to bash on a garment but So they're used to wearing that they liked that we need to have the ability to connect that to the molecular and metabolic expression circuits that underlie that so that we can understand what we'll help them perform at a consistently high level and recover well from their training and stress, and in the interface has to be something that they're used to using where you're using something called smart base, which there familiar using. Gives them actionable information. So it gives them information about their training level, their recovery, their sleep in a diet, and I think that is gonNA help operators and pilots trained better maintain their health and performance, and then hopefully in the long term length in their careers. Fantastic Tim. So to give listeners a sense of what a major undertaking the pillow project is, can you talk about the stellar team that you put together, which includes not only agency, but also a number of other superb research organizations. Yasser, we have a team that is just fabulous have to say the program manager commented that we have assembled the the best across many many different fields. So couple I can go a gut through a couple of the different sites. Are. With the collaborators UAB. University of Alabama Birmingham as one excellence in phenotype ING and training, and in the molecular understanding of the size and performance they performed for example, also on the fight program in a big NIH, program called motor pack 'em Ot are PAC that listeners might want to look at. It's interesting We have translational genetics, research institute, T- Jen, they are cutting edge from a molecular and metabolic standpoint across many different fields on college. He traumatic brain injury just to give a couple examples salk institute had collaboration on. Once again, fight as well as some other projects looking at epigenetics as it relates to environmental exposures, for example, in another Darpa program but Joe Eker, who is there is one of the leaders in the world DNA methylation analyses let see Con School of Medicine Mount Sinai, and also related institutions because they have sort of an established team is Princeton University and University of Pittsburgh as well. They have great expertise in a analysis including machine learning If you look as a pathway level information extractor or Plyer is technique they developed actually they're. Currently think using some of those techniques to improve the diagnosis of covid patients to the point where heads of the genetic changes May, in fact, be able to diagnose covered patients before they are symptomatic. So the final one is Sri International They are the ones who are developing the next generation wearables for the context and vitals data collection. Collects the physiologic data voice data and provides the contextual data to help make sense of it. That's a stellar or perhaps one would say purely team. Yeah peerless. Indeed. sit-in, you have a lot on your plate right now as listeners can probably tell when you want to take some time to get away I understand that you like to spend time at the beach with your family. Is that right? That's correct. As you can tell, I love the ocean the Gulf One of the things that I really love about Florida is the water to my wife and daughters also just love. We're just on vacation Grayton beach state. Park is one of the nicest speeches I have ever been to a couple of weeks ago. Just amazing. It's a spectacular beach. Absolutely beautiful also in your spare time I understand that you enjoy listening to music especially classical music. So is it true that you have three daughters who all play the violin? Do and I love all kinds of music but after years and years of practice I. Now, I'm quite familiar with classical string music they took. Suzuki. I don't know if the listeners may be familiar but you know my daughter started playing violin when they were three or four years old and have played for decades and are you know I'm biased once again proud father but fabulous of violin players and you know my wife is born the brunt of the Suzuki required parental involvement I just get to go and enjoy and now ask them because they sound lovely just to play for relaxation but Yeah it In the early days quite. squeaky instrument but you know they're just lovely violent players in it is calming and comforting for me, and so that's transitioned over into some of my playlist. The some of the violent classics or Yes. It's fantastic. I think we were all the three of us are all definitely huge huge music fan so Well, Tim has been fantastic having you on stem talks. Thank you so much for joining us today. Oh, thank you for having is is great. I always love talking with you and Ken. Absolutely Tim. It's it's been great. Appreciate. Thanks. Stem. Stem Talk. So can I have to say one of the best things that you've done here at agency was recruit tim broader gray absolutely love working with him. Agreed Don Tim has had a substantial impact as a surgeon and researcher. He has developed new technologies and systems that have improved as well as extend people's lives don you and I work with a lot of people in the special operations community and have seen many careers cut short because of injuries. This is one reason why the work that Tim and His colleagues are doing to improve the resilience and careers folks in special operations is so rewarding and important. We are very fortunate to have. Tim is part of our agency family. So very true can if you enjoyed this interview as much as Kenan I, did we invite you to visit the stem talk web page we can find the show notes for this and other episodes stem talk that us. This is Don Carnegie signing for now, and this is Ken Ford saying goodbye until we meet again on stem talk. Thank you for listening to stem talk we want this podcast be discovered by others. So please take a minute to go to itunes to rate the podcast and perhaps even writer review. More information about this and other episodes can be found at our website stem talk dot us there. You can also find more information about gas we interview.

Dr Tim Broderick Cincinnati NASA Medical School Canada Dr Ken Cincinnati reds High School Darpa Program Manager Red Sox baseball Xavier don Matthew Broderick Florida Don Cornelius
Ep 113: Therapy for Black Girls' Dr. Joy Harden Bradford on How Founders Can Take Care of Their Mental Health

Side Hustle Pro

43:20 min | 2 years ago

Ep 113: Therapy for Black Girls' Dr. Joy Harden Bradford on How Founders Can Take Care of Their Mental Health

"You can probably think of some people are argumentation are whatever that you follow that like automatically make you feel like, oh, I'm not doing enough or I'm not grad in hot enough. I'm not doing these things and you probably needs to go ahead and unfiled those accounts because there's not setting you up for success. Ciro listening to side hustle pro. The podcast that teaches you to build and grow your side hustle from passion project to profitable business, and I'm your host Kayla Matthews, combing Salo's get started. Today's episode is brought to you by gusto. So when he worked for someone else, you really look forward to pay day. But when you become a business owner, you really look forward to finding that great payroll provider. And that's where it gusto comes in small businesses across the country. Love running payroll, using gusto gusto automatically files and pays your taxes. It's super easy to use, and you can add benefits and HR supports, help take care of your team and keep your business. It's loyal. It's modern. You might even fall in love with it yourself. Side-hustle pro listeners get three months free when they run their first payroll. So try a demo and test it out yourself at gusto dot com. Slash s. HP that's gusto dot com. Slash s. h. p.. Hey, guys. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome back to the show today in the guest chair is d one and only Dr joy hardened Bradford Dr. Joy is a licensed psychologist speaker in the host of the wildly popular mental health podcast. There be for black girls. She received her bachelor's degree in psychology from veer university of Louisiana, her master's degree in vocational rehabilitation counseling from Arkansas state and her PHD in counseling psychology from the university of Georgia. Dr joys work focuses on making mental health topics more relevant and acceptable for black women. And she specializes in creating spaces for black women to have fuller and healthier relationships with themselves and others. He's been featured in Oprah magazine bustle, black enterprise, women's health, teen vogue essence. And more than CEPA sewed is so important to me because I am passionate about breaking the stigma of mental health, like any other part of our body. We need to take care of our mind and this year has really cemented that for me as founders. Sometimes we think that we what we're experiencing is unique to us. So we go through a lot of internal torment and mental anguish. Trying to figure things out on our own in. We don't really know who exactly to talk to because you know, no one else is walking are specific path. As I talk about Dr joy though. Sometimes I felt like I don't need to speak to anyone. It's not that serious. I can figure it out on my own. I just need a day off that day of self care and it'll all be better. But on today's episode we get into why you shouldn't wait to reach a breaking point before seeking support the truth about self care. In why you can't self care yourself into not going to be what self sabotage looks like and how to overcome it in how to thrive as a black founder. As a reminder, this episode is a no way a substitute for seeking help from a licensed therapist in your state before we talked to Dr joy here is a quick shout out to the review of the. Weeds reviewed conscience Chemi. Chemi says Haina Kayla. I just wanna let you know that every time I listen to your podcasts always leave feeling so inspired and motivated. I just listened to your nine month entrepreneur diaries and it couldn't have come at a better time. I'm a graphic designer working towards building my Brent in art licensing. And this particular episode really lifted me as I took my morning walk. It was lovely to hear your honest take on one in his life to be an entrepreneur, your daily struggles and successes in building strong business as filling a bit overwhelmed and wondering if I was on the right path. But this episode gave me the needed goose to keep surging forward and stay committed to growing my passion. Thank you Chemi. Thank you. Can me, you know what the guys know the entrepeneurship diaries are so hard for me to do. They take a lot of courage and enough from the response that I've been getting. No, that. You guys appreciate it, and it is actually helpful to us. That tells me that sharing that is the right thing to do and that I'm on the right PAT's. I will keep them coming once a month. Thank you so much for listening to me. I'm so glad that it could help you to push through those feelings of overwhelm you guys. Please at love reading your views makes me feel closer to you, and it really helps me to understand the kind of impact that has pros having so pleased. When you get a chance just head over to apple podcasts. Leave me a five star review. I've decided to that. I think I'm gonna put a goal on this. So I have a little under five hundred reviews right now, and I would love to get two thousand. By the end of the year, these reviews, believe it or not helps side-hustle pro to be discovered in the podcast doors. It helps you, you know, get on Apple's radar and show them that these podcasts podcast, black woman founder is important. It is worthy of being on the charts and. Beyond that. I just want more people discovering a more women who are looking for business related topics to discover side-hustle pro. And so that is my last plunk on that. So thank you in advance for your refuse. Now, let's get into it. So welcome to the guest here, Dr. Joy. Thank you so much for heaven staying you for being here. You know, I'm really excited and this upper soda is so important and so meaningful to me. But before we get into why that is, I would love for you to take a chance to just give us a peek into the life of Dr joy, who is she and what does she do so many things like all of the things sometimes. So I am a psychologist by training. I do have a practice here indicator which is like a small town outside of Atlanta, and I also host the podcast. I'm a mom and a wife. So I feel like often juggling lots of different balls at one time. Yes, and not just any podcast therapy for black girls top rated podcast. Thank you very much. Yes. So what tree to this path of psychotherapy? Yes. So I feel like I have always been. My mom would, of course describe it as being nosy all the time. But I describe it as genuinely curious. So you know, I feel like I'm just very curious about like humans and I do like a lot of people watching, and I also feel like I'm incredibly intuitive in. So when I kind of looked at will kind of things really would be a good fit in terms of a major for like who I saw myself as if at like psychology was like the perfect fit for me. I initially thought I wanted to do more teaching within did like one practicum in an elementary school in was like, oh no, this. So I then went the route of getting my master's degree in rehab counseling and then my counseling psychology. Okay. So did you go straight through all of these? I went from my undergrad to my master's program after a bit of a hiccup. So I initially applied to like clinical psychology PHD program, straight out of undergrad in didn't get accepted to any. Then I got kinda rerouted to a massive program from somebody somebody from my undergrad had written this grant in had like all these colleges to give away. So I was like, oh, I could go to school for free and get a messes. Agree, my bet. I knew nothing about rehab counseling at the time, but once I looked it up, I was like, oh, this does actually feel like you'd be agreed fit for me. So I did two years there in Arkansas state is where did that? And I did two years there and then actually took an internship in Milwaukee before going back to grad school for my PHD. So there was about a year of a break as an funny how life. Will reroute us, but it alternately leads us to exactly where we're supposed to be. Did you feel that way like you know that all these twists and turns in hindsight, just all makes sense? Oh, yeah. In hindsight, of course, in the moment is like, oh, this is not what I was planning. Right? Like I think when you are like a driven student, you know it doesn't. I had not ever been rejected from anything that I had applied for. So I felt like there was also like a huge like blow to my ego. Like, oh, I didn't get into this thing. But looking back, definitely it has all kind of wound up being Woody exactly what it needed to be. Okay. And so your masters degree is in vocational rehabilitation counseling. What exactly is that? So vocational rehab counseling is basically helping people with disabilities either get back into the workforce or figure out like accommodations for what they knew to need to kind of stay in the workforce. And then counseling psychology is what you do now, how did you merge those to interests? So I've always had a private practice and I feel like this is kinda like a running joke with their biz because most of us don't ever do just one thing. So regional side hustlers. I'm like, oh, this is the perfect pack. As me. I'm always been side hustling, but my career has been in college counseling centers. So a lot of what I did even while in grad school was working with college students while I was also in grad school, and then my internship in all of the jobs that I've had ever since graduation have been in college counseling centers, gut it. Would you ever decide to go fulltime private practice or is there just something about both of those worlds that you love? I loved it. I mean, now I am fulltime private practice slash podcast lash all of this other stuff. So I'm not actually in a college counseling center anymore, but it was a really hard decision for me because I really low college students in so and there's something about like the life cycle of being on a college campus that's also really inspiring. I think energize. They always like something going on. And so I really missed the Ed kind of, you know, energy. But you know, once I decided that I needed to do this more full-time than if like this I had to make. Okay, thank you for clarifying that. So you know, I know you are married. You have children at what stage did you decide? Okay. I'm going full time. And was it a reflection of those changes in your personal life as well? Yes. Oh, my husband's job actually changed for a second, and so I needed to have a more flexible schedule for the kids. I have two little ones therefore in too. So that's a lot of like daycare closing and this day off and that day off. And so it just became unbearable to manage. So I decided to leave to to be more flexible for the kids, but it also coincided with therapy for black girls just becoming like its own thing that I felt like I really needed to focus on and kind of get some structure around. Now we're going to get into. That in a minute, but I'm curious to. So it's interesting with with counseling psychotherapy. It's like, do you market for that? You know to find clients, are you doing as or is it word of mouth? How does that work years? So a lot of what you do in terms of like marketing yourself as the opus is kind of content marketing in terms of like writing, blog posts, speak to your, you know I deal clients or the podcast, or you know, you do videos, that kind of thing, and also making sure. So I'm sure we'll we'll talk about the directory also, but like in these directory listings that we have as their up is you also will be making sure that you really speaking to who your client is in, like how you can help them? Yes. So now let's talk about the podcast. Why did you decide to start their for black girls and Wyatt podcast? Why not just a blog? Yes. So actually therapy for girls started as a blog. So when I started in September twenty four. Eighteen. I was just blogging on this site, but I wasn't consistent. It was just like, whenever I decided to write if I move to write something, but a part of the last job that I had, I had an hour commute both ways which meant that I was listening to a lot of podcasts. And so you know, I just really fell in love with the medium in really felt connected to the podcast that I was listening to. And so I felt like, oh, this could be something that would be really cool to ads that there'd be for black girls. And I think again, when you're listening to podcast, it's like, oh, they're just talking like how hard it is. Right, right. I realized that it is a ton of work on the back lands. And when you were first getting started, you know what I steps. Did you take an and then when you release it into the world, did it just automatically take off or you kind of have to remind people like, hey, you can listen to this. It's now a podcast. Yes. I think in terms of the first steps of, I think it also became easier for me because my husband has a radio background, and so he's my producer and so I knew the tech piece, what is what I think would have been the barrier for me. Like if I had to figure out how to edit and put all that together, I think it would have taken me a lot longer to gives daughter, but because I knew he was already going to be doing that than I could just develop the content and in the kinds of things that I wanted to talk about. I also took a course. So there is a psychologist in Philadelphia Dr. Melvin voorhees who'd has a podcast course specifically for therapists and other helpers that's about like. How to get all this stuff set up and how to choose a name and you know, all of that kind of stuff. So I think that was really helpful to in insane, the foundation for the podcast. Now let's talk about their pay for black founders because, and here's where share wise been so meaningful for me to listen to your podcast because one of the things that I just underestimated was the mental load of entrepreneurship and how you can have everything lined up. You can have all of the ingredients, but if that mental isn't there, and if you were self sabotaging were filled with things -iety and fear that's holding you back. Things are not going to get done. So how can we break through this now, do you work directly with a lot of entrepreneurs or do you find people are starting to reach out to you more? So my specialty in working with clients, typically, women who are recovering from break-up. So yes, some of them have been like entrepreneur. Moore's, but that typically is not the reason why people are coming to me for a clinical work right now even within your current clientele. So as you deal with with anxiety, procrastination, depression, in those kind of things, what are some of the key issues that you see come up in relation to that? I think for a lot of women will like I kind of alluded to before, you know, a lot of us are incredibly leg driven and used to like doing things will. And I think sometimes when you are in entrepreneurship, there isn't like a roadmap that you're following in. So you don't necessarily know like, what are you measuring will buy. Right? And I think that leads to a lot of anxiety because they don't actually know like, okay, am I doing a good job at this thing? And I also think of that a lot of people struggle with this is not a clinical diagnosis, but shiny objects in Rome, right? Because we see people doing all of these different things, and it's like, oh, I could do this or I could do that as this'll be great adds a business Indian. You stress yourself too thin. You're not doing anything will I think those are some of the most common things that I see working with entrepreneurs and you know you bring up such a great point because you don't know what to measure yourself by. It's kind of like the to also combine the shiny object syndrome also relates to you, compare yourself to others because that's all you have is a comparison point. You're like, well, such as such that has a podcast too or such as such. So as a program like this and that's not productive. You are not in their business you. It's just not a useful exercise. And I mean in in typically where you getting that comparison from, right, it's from whatever we share on social media. And so you're seeing all of these highlights like I talk about all the time, but you don't know any of the process or all of the fifty eight hours that you don't see on social media that people are not posting. So the comparison is not typically very real one. And I think to the second thing I know I've experienced is you don't always know when you're facing something new new territory and these new feelings, you don't know where they're coming from. You sometimes don't even know what it is, what name to put on it. So what are some of this symptoms that we should look out for as it relates things -iety or maybe even depression year? That's a great question to Caleb because I think a lot of people probably are struggling with a lot of these symptoms and they don't realize it. So you would wanna pay attention to things like changes in your. Sleep in eating, which I think can be difficult because it's messed by this busy quote, uncle life that we have is entrepreneurs, right? We're always on the go. We're always on the run, and so it may be harder to pay attention to the fact that like, oh, I go for days without ever, really eating three meals, or you know those kinds of things. So you know, changes to your appetite, whether you feel less hungry or more hungry, not getting enough sleep again could be masked by some of this entrepreneurship lifestyle that we preach sometimes in unhealthy way because you do actually need to be getting eight or more hours sleep legs burning the candle at both ends is not going to end up in anything but burn out of so changes to your sleep changes in your mood. So you realize that you may be like maybe a little more irritable than usual. Sometimes oppression doesn't always look like sadness. Sometimes it does look like more irritability, which I think is a reason why sometimes it's missed that is really good to know. And how do you know if let's say you're procr-. Fascinating a lot, and you know that it's related to some kind of fear. Maybe it's an irrational fear and you don't really know if it's of the level where you should seek help. So I'm glad you that question because that is a perfect myth that we should just go ahead and do spill right now really. The whole idea that if. If you have five. It would be better for you to go ahead and get help on one or two level as opposed to getting to the five. Because if you go in at the water to level, we may be better prevent you from actually getting to the. So the whole idea that you need to be like in a crisis are significantly depressed or anxious or whatever before you actually reach out for help is not true. Like lots of founders, I think, especially as like black women and other women of color, because there is probably not a lot of lag maybe entrepreneurs in your family or nobody who you know who has done this thing. We typically, you know, moving in spaces where we don't really have a role model. And so that of course, brings up a lot of questions, and can I really do this and those kinds of things. And so I think particularly for entrepreneurs, it is important to be talking with therapists if you can about some of the challenges that you're having because there is no way that personal challenges and things that are happening in your life, don't affect your business. I'm so glad you said that because I did. Subscribe to that myth. So thank you for dispelling that you know of just been like, oh, I should just practice self care. Can we talk about self care what it is and what is not. Agree point. So I actually spoke with a reporter of, I think recently I'm not sure if this pieces out yet, but it should be soon about this whole idea of self care because you can't like self-care your weight into not going to be so care is something that maybe should be complemented there. But if you actually like need to be working with therapist because you know there's something that's been going on for you know, amount of bubble baths and like days at the spy is going to. Is just not. It doesn't work that way. You know. So here I think, has kind of become a buzzword and you know, there's like a lot of glamour and people trying to sell you all these kits and things like that. But so care at it's like most generic and foundational basis is like anything that you do to take care of yourself in a way that is restorative. So that means paying attention to how many hours you sleeping. How long are you spending on social media? Are you taking care of yourself in terms of exercise? Are you eating will like all of the kinds of things will were really looking at when we're talking about self care and speaking of social media. So for those of us who need it for business, how can we find that balance? Because it's almost like I feel like it might be doing something to me psychologically and messing with me in ways that are leading to eighty and some of these symptoms. However, again, a need it for my business needs to be there and actually enjoy it sometimes. Right? Yeah, I think as with anything, you need to pay. Attention to like your limits. Right. You know, because I think some of us, yeah, a lot of us probably need it for business, but does it didn't doesn't need to be you, right? So something that's helped me is having somebody to help with my social media so that I'm not spending as much time on social media as you know I was before, so yeah. Can you have a presence would not be on there all the time and also paying attention to like what kinds of accounts you follow. You know, like you can probably think of some people or organizations or whatever that you follow that like automatically make you feel like, oh, I'm not doing enough or I'm not grad in hard enough. I'm not doing these things and you probably need to go ahead and follow those accounts because there's not setting you up for success. Amen. I actually did do that the other day and I do. I'm like, oh, I wonder what they're up to. But I know there are few, you know times and it doesn't feel like, man, I'm not doing enough. So I have to take care of myself and protect my energy like that. Eight is it's Michaela here with a quick word from our sponsor. Okay. I have a side hustle, heck for all to hear and it's called skill share. You wanna know how I grow as a businesswoman. I keep learning. There's not a week goes by that. I'm not checking out a refresher class or deep dive to to'real and my go-to is skill. Share skill share is an online learning platform with over eighteen thousand classes in business marketing entrepreneurship, you name it. So whether you're trying to start a side hustle or scale, your business skill share is there to keep you learning and thriving. In the last month alone. I've learned how to sit up my Email capture landing page on squarespace and how to boost my Email marketing using milch him through skill share, and now skill share has a special offer just for my listeners, it two months of skill share for just ninety nine cents. That's right. Just ninety nine cents to sign up, go to steal share dot com. Slash. Russell pro again, go to skill share dot com slash hostile pro to start your two months now. Hustler's if you have already started your business or getting ready to you probably know that small business owners. We were a lot of heads and some of those hazard totally fun. But if we're being on us, some of them like filing taxes and running payroll, for example, then us. Oh great. That's where gusto comes in gusto makes payroll taxes and HR actually easy for small businesses, fast, simple payroll processing benefits, and expert. HR support all in one place. Gusto even automatically pays and files your federal state and local taxes. So you don't have to worry about it. Plus they make it easy to add on health benefits and even 401K's for your team. Those old school clunky payroll providers just weren't built for the way we work as modern sm-. Small businesses, but gusto is so let them handle when if you're many hats because you have better things to do sign house. The pro listeners get three free months when they run their first payroll. So try a demo and see for yourself at gusto dot com. Slash s HP that's gusto dot com. Slash s. h. p.. I wanna touch on this topic of self sabotage. You had a episode on this. Tell us more about what does it look like? What do you think causes it and how can we cope and overcome it? Yeah, and that was definitely a very popular episode and it had already been requested. So anew it would be because people talk about. But Phil sabotages all of those things we do to kinda get in our own way in block our blessing so to speak, you know. So like we talked about, like, you know that like the morning hours or your most productive, but then you will stay up all night binging episodes on Netflix. So so kinda working against what you're saying that you actually wants to do. And a lotta times we do this because of like fear of failure or fear of success. So basically if I don't even try in, I can't even say that I succeeded are fail because I never even put myself out there. So most of the time is subconscious. Typically people don't know that they're doing it, but if you kinda get into this pattern of realizing like, oh, I'm not ever. You know, meeting any of these deadlines, these goals I set for myself or, you know, every time I kinda put myself out there, things just don't work out. You do need to take an assessment of like what kinds of things you're actually doing that could be preventing you from getting these things. You say you want. And now you have created a safe space for people to address face and find coping mechanisms for some of these topics that we've discussed can share a little bit more about the larger therapy for black girls community and the resources that you can find there. And that is one of my favorite things Kayla like I really feel like, you know, because like even a year ago, I wasn't necessarily building the business that I'm building now. Right? Like even when I was planning to at some point, like hevea full time, private practice. I was thinking that I would have full time private practice not be running his podcast and doing it. All of these things like the business looks completely different. And so you know it, it has kind of throwing me off my game in terms of like, okay, I don't have a script for like what this business looks like. So what has really helped me though, is being really in tune with my community in paying attention to what kinds of things talking about what kinds of things are asking for in really building my business around that. So there's a very active Facebook community. They're over sixteen thousand members in the thrive tribe is what we call the the community. And we're always having all kinds of conversations about all kinds of things in there. And then on Thursdays, I go live on both Facebook and Instagram at noon for my three for Thursday chats where I will talk about three pieces of information in then we just kinda have a general chat there over or almost nine hundred therapists in the directory at this point. So if people are looking for therapists and not show or like where to get started, then you can definitely visit the directory to to get a place to get started. We also have a partnership with. The crisis text line, so people may not be aware of this resource. But if you are having some kind of a crisis, you can actually ticks with a crisis text counselor by texting the word tribe, two, seven, four one, seven, four one, which I think is an outstanding resource in. It's completely free. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. And it's interesting you bring that up. So obviously we wanted to touch on therapy for black founders, but you yourself are a founder of a business and starting this out and learning on the fly route to create this business. How are you going about doing this? And what lessons do you think you've learned in this first year? Is it just been one year? It hasn't even been a year yet here, right. Is this. Full time. Yeah. And so it hadn't even been a year. What has been really helpful for me has been learning from like other successful business owners and business coaches? Because like I said, like I just was not like I had a good idea of how to run a private practice business. I had no idea how to run this business that has become therapy for black girls. And so you know, working with business coaches in being a mastermind has been incredibly helpful for me. What do you look for when you're looking for a coach? What you know, what is your old som it vision right now. I know that can shift. Yeah, it definitely has. And I've had multiple coaches of, so I work with my Elliot's very early on in the game. Like what are the biz? Like she is outstanding it helping you like to really capture your branding and like, what is your message in like, are you really wanting to talk about? So I can add recommend her highly enough. And also it has been important to me to work with coaches who are actually also therapists but have expanded their businesses to do these other kinds of things like I'm doing podcasts in courses and stuff. So I worked with Allison, salmon Perea in Tiffany. She just goes by, hey, Tiffany dot com. But they are both to therapists who like having credibly successful practices, but also have expanded to do these other kinds of things. So I did a mastermind with them that was really helpful in getting the directory started and has a hard for you to separate, or is it hard for people to separate Dr? Joyce private practice and therapy for black girls? Well, I think a lot of people don't even know that I have the private practice in mean, it definitely is very small because the podcast and all of the other stuff like takes a lot more of. My time. So the practices mall purposely, but I think people sometimes don't even know that I actually do work in. Right. Is on the podcast. Actually practice. Are you okay with us talking about monetization in terms of, you know, we're both podcasters and we both, you know, have a similar business models in that respect. And as you think about therapy black girls, one, I'm curious, has it been tricky for you because of the element of therapy and the fact that it's a medical business and you know there have to be certain things that you're careful about. Has it been difficult to figure out how you wanna monetize? It definitely has. I mean, because you know, so people may not know this, maybe you do, but we're licensed as I in our respective states in. So there are a lot of like ethical guidelines and things that you need to do to make sure you can actually keep your license in good standing. And so because again, I feel like I had that down pack for the private practice. But once I started getting into this podcasting in like talking to people across the world kind of thing that became a little more of a gray area, and I definitely have. Struggled like I've been approached by leg different sponsors in the things, but it doesn't always feel like it's the best fit in terms of who I am in the fact that I have a license to protect like I feel like I don't want to just have sponsorship from anybody who doesn't feel good fit for my audience, you know? Yeah. Yeah. No, I completely understand. And that's why you know, it's been a limited range for me because I really need to be able to vouch for that. And also it's host read. So even if I don't say, oh, I've used this in love it. It's automats seen as something that I'm watching for. So you have to so carrying xactly. Yeah. And you know, because I do have the license, like people need to always make sure that you know like they sometimes ascribed me as their therapist in their head kind of thing. Make sure that people understand that. I'm not really there. I know I'm giving you education like maybe talking points for you to talk with your own. They're about, but like you know, making sure that that line is very clear. He is. And you know, again, I'm just so inspired and proud of what you've created in creating the space for us to talk about topics that some with think were taboo were once taboo, and we're all still fighting through. Right? 'cause no one wants to feel like they're not normal. Even though I don't know who made normalcy like the thing to be. Why was that? The things would be anyway. Everyone wants to feel like they're quote unquote normal, but we're so nuance where different. We have different experiences in life. Of course, we're going to have different issues and things that we need to work through. So speaking of that because you need see someone that's licensed in your state, he's talking about how people can find resources and what they should look for in finding someone to talk to. For example, what's the difference between a psychologist and psychotherapist, for example? Yes. Psychotherapist is kind of like a generic term. So sometimes people will call themselves like their bizarre psychotherapists or whatever. But it's like Hodges is typically illegal clinician who is licensed by their states, but you also have licensed clinical social workers. Licensed professional counselors, licensed marriage and family therapist, a host of different kinds of professionals who still have training in doing therapy and are licensed by their respective states. So that definite. Is what you do wanna look for is somebody who is licensed, you know, because you do want to be careful with people who you know advertising themselves as like almost no healers are, you know that kind of thing like, and if that's what you're looking for, then fine. But that's not a therapist. And so you know the the people who can call themselves therapies are actually going to be licensed by their states. And your directory provides some assistance with that. Yeah. The only people who are listed in the directory are licensed therapist. Got it. And what's your feeling on nowadays? A lot of people are interested in remote therapy or being able to access someone via tax or over the phone and not necessarily go in person. Is that something you think is as effective? Yeah, it it definitely can be. I mean, you know, 'cause a lot of times there are barriers to actually getting into the office like in Atlanta, traffic is awful. And so you know, even if you plan to try to be on top of your session, like you just might not because of a random accident. And so a virtual therapy has. Allow people to like be more flexible in terms of their schedules and for a lot of people it can be as just as effective as in person therapy. Now definitely is not the best for everybody, but for a lot of people, it actually could be a very good fit. So for the people who live in areas like maybe they're looking for a black therapist, but they're not in the area where louds of black therapists are licensed. We, like I said, are licensed by our state so you can work with anybody who is license in your entire state if they offer virtual sessions as an option. Right. And now you offered so many gyms, but before we get into the lightning round, I love to know just overall as founders as people who are navigating side hustles career in life. What are some general tips for us to work through in Zion, easy and procrastination and to stop self-sabotaging just be our best. Oh yeah. I really think having a sounding board is helpful. So you know, we'll let you in on a little secret Nikila and I am a couple of other pike Cassis have our own like little mastermind like are popular. And then he has been incredibly helpful because like if I'm feeling unsure about something or somebody else's like, yeah, I'm thinking about this with thing. They can bounce ideas off one another, and I think that really helps to just get out of your head because there's a lot of what exactly is just like sometimes overthinking and like playing this, what if game, what if what, if what, if I did this and what if you actually talk to somebody about it, they can hold up a mirror to you and say, hey, you said this last week, you said this, and let's talk about was really going on here. So I think it helps to keep you accountable, but also helps to kind of rain in some of that over thinking. So finding yourself, like a group of other people who are in similar space as you, I think, can be really helpful to to to manage some of that anxiety and procrastination. Also, making sure that you are setting yourself up with realistic expectations. I think a lot of times because we'd maybe don't have access to other people who are. Doing the kinds of things we're doing. We're not really setting realistic goals where sales and then. This. And then just just. Complete devastation. Actually, when it's like you said yourself. From the beginning. Know actually going to be a millionaire this year. I was like, what do you mean. Year and right. You see. Social media talking about this. So I think there some hype around it, you know? But again, how realistic is that, you know, like do you really have a solid plan in place for how you would reach thing? So just as important, I think as it is to find people who are like in a similar spaces you, I think it is important if you can identify like mentors or pay a consultant or somebody to help you sit like realistic goals and expectations for your business. I think that that could be really helpful to I love that and you are so right. Everything you have said has just been hitting home, so I'm so glad that we're speaking and especially, you know what you said before about not waiting on sale. You're like, okay, I'm in a crisis now to see someone because again, that's totally what I've always felt like like, okay, just little, you know. So thank you. We often hear founders needs to make sure they have a good CPA in a good lawyer on their team. There's nothing wrong with adding an incredible therapist or your team is making sure that you are taking care of. Your soul so that you can take care of the business. Right. 'cause it all starts with you. You know, why wouldn't you literally take care of the head of the business? You are the head, so. Oh, good minders and things for us to keep in mind. So now let's head into the lightning round Dr joy you just answer the first thing that comes to mind. Are you ready? Yes. Okay. So what is a resource that has helped you in your business that you can share with the side hustle? Pro audience, trello has been incredible for me and my team because I feel like I always had like so many different ideas and so do they. And so having a place where we can all see what's going on has been like a game changer for us. And number two, what's been the best business book or podcast episode that you've consumed this year? So Raina from dreams. Dr who's another member? A mastermind. About like, I don't even know how many maybe eighteen marketing tips. And I felt like I was getting like a mini MBA in marketing listening to this podcast. I was like, oh my gosh. Shutouts. Rainer. Yes. So that probably has been one of the most impactful episodes I've heard in oil number three who is a black woman entrepreneur that you'd want to trade places with four a day and why Lena wage because it feels like she is always doing something new incredible. And I'm just like the creativity. This woman like just knows no end. So definitely Lena. Number four. What is a personal habit that has helped you significantly in your business? I would say my intuition. Ooh. And then finally, what is your parting advice for fellow women entrepreneurs who want to be their own boss but are worried about losing a steady paycheck. I would encourage them to do some reality testing to see if the worry is actually about the paycheck or if it's about something else who do a little digging. I mean, because of I understand like bills to be paid, we gotta take care of ourselves. But a lot of times we use the money as an excuse to not actually step out and do what we really want to be doing. Dr joy. I'm gonna. My. You are so right. You're so right. I love that advised because before I was about to quit everything, it wasn't about the money was other people what other people are gonna think all this other stuff. So y'all let that one marinate and really, really alike that gonna do that exercise with every decision. Really? Yes, exactly. So with the best way for people to connect with Dr joy in her resources, after this episode, you can find all of the ways to contact me connect at their for black girls dot com. All right, so Dr, joy. Thank you so much for being in the guest chair today. It was a pleasure. Thank you killer. All right guys, and there you have it. Thanks for listening to side hustle pro. If you wanna hear more from me head on over to side-hustle pro dot CO force last side-hustle corner to get my weekly side-hustle diaries chronicles about my own journey from passion project. So profitable business that if you wanna find me online at side-hustle pro on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook, don't forget to join the side house. Pro Facebook community put aside hustle. Pro-death, see, oh four slash mastermind. And as always if you have the show to me a favor and subscribe rate and review on, I tunes thanks guys talk to you next week.

founder Dr. Joy private practice gusto dot Facebook Arkansas gusto gusto HP Chemi Oprah magazine Atlanta CEPA business owner Apple university of Georgia Ciro veer university of Louisiana Brent
CBS 2 NEWS AM Update 06-28-20

CBS2 News Chicago

01:17 min | 2 months ago

CBS 2 NEWS AM Update 06-28-20

"I'm Suzanne lemonade here are the stories making news at this hour? The Illinois Department of Public Health reported seven hundred eighty six new confirmed Cova nineteen cases. There were also twenty six more deaths. Illinois's still has a three percent positivity rate, and is testing about thirty thousand people every day. Protesters hit the street in. Evergreen Park. Accusing Catholic University of Union. Busting, union organizers and faith leaders rallied against Saint Xavier, university they say last month. The school dismantled its forty year old faculty union without warning Swill officials. Tell us they are aligning themselves with the majority of other Catholic universities, which are non a unionized. Ten dollars. That's all it's going to take to keep your kids busy this summer. The Anderson Animal Shelter in South Elgin is offering virtual summer camp classes. Kids can join an hour long session to study animals, and if you can't afford the ten dollar cost, the shelter says they're going to work out a deal with you. Classes start in July to sign up visit, Anderson, animal, shelter, dot, org, weather today, partly cloudy skies with a high near eighty degrees. Join US ON CBS to or CBS CHICAGO DOT COM for news updates around the clock I'm Suzanne, Lemon No.

Anderson Animal Shelter Suzanne lemonade Illinois Department of Public Catholic University of Union CBS Illinois Cova Evergreen Park Anderson Swill Saint Xavier South Elgin CHICAGO eighty degrees three percent Ten dollars forty year ten dollar
Desiree Tims

Two Broads Talking Politics

24:59 min | 7 months ago

Desiree Tims

"Hi this is teddy listened to designate. Tibbs in Ohio are to talk. Politics started to deb. Cast podcast network everyone. This is Kelly with two brads talking politics part of the dumb cast family of podcast and I am onto day with desma. Tim's who is running for Congress in the Ohio Tenth District High Disarray. Hello so I am super excited. Talk to we're going to talk about this video in a little bit but let's start with some background. Tell me a little bit about yourself. And while you're running for Congress yes so again. My name is Deborah towns. I'm running for Ohio. Tenth district which is primarily Dayton Ohio. So it's urban suburban and several I was born and raised in the city of Dayton went to inner city schools when I graduated from High School and George Bush was still president and gas prices were going up and my friends and I couldn't afford the pussycats back in the car after skating. That was my first move spiking so I went to college down in Cincinnati Xavier University during that time then Senator Barack Obama was running for president and he came. We can't is and he talked a lot about hope it change there was a rally and so I just when the campaign and two thousand seven and two thousand eight and knock doors for President Obama and Southwest Ohio in Cincinnati and Dayton and it worked right we knocked doors and he became the president. I was convinced design. Make progress and change our country so I graduated during the and in Ohio anime West. I was really a very hard time for us because people were graduating from college with hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loan debt for example and about job prospects. And where we were GONNA go. And if I tell General Motors and mom and POPs were thriving until the recession hit so did get a job after college graduation and then three months four months later I was laid off like much of America during that time I was frantic and I pipe for so many job. Didn't receive a job offer. Bill re offered the job I had. Cincinnati relocated me Alexandria Virginia. And when I got there she a cough from the White House. I apply for White House. Internship during the panic of what is being laid off and I I was offered position and I accept the mets how it got into federal policy politics and learn all. I could die so the White House because I literally knew no one when I got there. Barack Michelle Sasha millions from TV. So you know. That's all. I knew I was willing to learn as much as I could. Because of the people that call they might community were suffering. Not only were gas prices. High jobs were that principal. They were gone by friends Their their parents homes were getting foreclosed. I saw Karski repossessed because people lost their jobs. They Lost Hope. The grocery stores closed and so we had all this hardship. That occurred and someone needs to do something about it so I spent time in the White House. I accepted different positions there and worked all around and learn as much as I could and then a man with the voice talking about jobs. It might you've actually make sure Brown appeared on TV. That I wanted to work for him next. He's my home. State senator in so. I dropped my resume off sides to his office and started at the bottom and work my way up and spend time beer event. I went to work for Gillibrand of New York and then also decided to traumatize myself before. You're the law school Georgetown. So after finishing law school I just point of okay. What am I going to do now? Going to continue my role I profit life in public service in DC. Or Am. I going to go home and do the same thing or go to offer. And so it's twenty twenty and people in our community. Guess what the home I still boarded up. They have new cars but they're older car models People still don't make what used to make in the nineties. I live in a food desert. I live I'm back home. I live in desert after drive. Twenty minutes or thirty minutes to get to a whole foods or trader Joe's and Twenty to thirty minutes to get to a kroger so these are issues that that I thought I I worked one that we were. We were fixing them. And now they're back and the man in the White House that current occupants. I don't think that he is serving the people who eat to be served and the man I'm running against for Congress also doesn't serve the people who need to be served and he's been in office for he's been elected office for twenty five years so it's time for change and instead of staying on the sidelines I decided to get into game. So I'm running for Congress to help bring back. Some hope is value. Who's restore what it is to be able to achieve the American dream and love that? So let's talk some about this district. The Ohio ten people who listen to this podcast lot. We'll know that I have railed against Ohio gerrymandering before somehow despite Ohio being a roughly fifty fifty kind of state. I mean they've got one Democratic Senator But how many sixteen congressional districts only four of them are currently held by Democrats so it. It seems like you know this district is is pretty interesting. You mention it's Dayton. It's got suburbs. You know it. It's got some diversity so it's so talk to me about this district and what what you think. The key is to winning it Last time in two thousand Eighteen Theresa Gaspar Ran. We talked to her on the podcast. And you know she was able to move it ten points or so from where it had been previously But still wasn't enough to sort of overcome the difference in the district. So so tell me some about the the district in what you think the key is to you. Winning Twenty Twenty yes. So Theresa Dick Crack the ceiling and I'm trying to finish the job and shatter rate. So the district is our plus awards primarily urban suburban and some rule we have five colleges and universities and the city of dates and is roughly Roughly one hundred forty one thousand people forty three forty four percent African American two of the five colleges and universities HPC you. I'm the first African American girth by the Party for the seat. So we know that this is going to be historic but one of the path to victory include turning out African American voters turning out young voters. I'm also the youngest person endorsed by the Party. Ever for this and so we need to make sure that we reach yet people and we need to make sure that we're reaching a African Americans who who sort of has still not included turned off From the process and that was part of the reason you know I made assault which I know. We'll get into so when I back home after I graduated on Sunday attacked an apartment on Monday. I was back in Ohio. She that Friday or Saturday. The KLU Klux Klan March downtown Dayton three days after that we have fifteen tornadoes ripped through our community and then two months after that we had a mass shooting in the Oregon district the day after a Paso so what we know is that okay so people if they were asleep before they're awake they're paying attention 'cause okay we have men in white hoodies walking down the streets with with with rifles and then we have fifteen tornadoes and people can't get the assistance they need from Fema. They can't get the assistance they need from the insurance companies. And you know we never see the the four funding because One of our ponant my opponent. He voted against disaster relief for three days before he does it. And so imagine if we had members of Congress and people who actually worked to ensure that when disaster strikes people can get the help that they need is not. Oh It happened. Now what do we do? We have to be proactive. In that reacted and then the mass shooting certainly opened a lot of folks is because my opponent has an A. rating with the NRA so people who stayed home sixteen people who were tuned out in eighteen. Those people are paying attention but younger people they pay. They came out for the rallied like to protest the clan and they helped clean up with the tornadoes and it was a big community effort and the mass shooting was very Eye Opening a shocking. Because it was in our backyard but some people still don't understand why they need to vote so. I decided to make this dog. I wanted to school house. Wrap sort of theme to reach people. Talk About Congress and judges and that's really how it went about when I talked to. My cousin approached him about it he to have the same really. What does this mean? Does my vote really count. He thought those very same things so I said well. I'm going to teach you everything I know until you teach your back for me. I love it and then we'll write this song. Yeah yeah and it's a it's an amazing video too so the the song is great and the video is Great. And it's so it's such a powerful message and you know a lot of really important and powerful people have been taken notice of it so for people who haven't seen the video and of course they're number. One homework assignment is that they should go and watch this. It's called my vote. Don't count and we'll put the wound bed. The video on our website too so people can find it but but talk us through a little bit about the kind of said why why you wanted to make it. But but what? What are you trying to convey to people in the Song In your cousin yellow pain and so what are the to China to really To to portray. Yeah so one of the things I heard. We're not particularly in African American community when we talk to voters and we knock on doors and we have these sort of meet UPS. You know they say well. We had eight years of Barack Obama and my wife didn't change and so in addition to telling them well probably not true. Let's share the list of policies and laws that were created and acted that you know would have gone further but for a rebellious congress. They still don't get it and so I always say well. Yes voted in two thousand eight. But did you come back out in two thousand ten Even older voters younger voters people who just came out because they were excited. White voters rule voters. They all say the same thing where we had. The Democrats have the White House for eight years and I say but the house but the Senate and really conveying that was sometimes it was wonky and sometimes it was great and so the chart the video I created that chart for a lot of people and I said well you need to post this chartering your facebook and so I said well we could use the chart for The video maybe that would be helpful but it literally the chart came from how I was explaining it to people just sitting down at kitchen tables and coffee shops. This is how it matters but I thought some would be more creative to reach them so I you know. Obviously the the reaction on on social media has been has been quite positive. I know people who just love the song do. Do you think it's reaching the people that you're trying to reach to? The the people who haven't been voting who may be did vote in two thousand eight but stayed home in two thousand ten. You are they. Are they getting that message now? And do you think they're excited to come out and vote? Yeah they're definitely receiving the message we received so okay so we were trying to get people in the district. I really just wanted the song to reach all the other side and people in our community. Who Sort of follow me. Follow Him Who understand this lesson and the more creative way you know? He's a perfect artists for it And I know it'd be a great. Collaboration did not expect Stacey Abrams to share it and Chelsea Clinton is so obviously very exciting moments for the really cool thing is receiving the messages like. Hey I check my voter registration because of you or I did not know this. I'm definitely voting. I was going to sit out because I'm not excited about the presidential candidates or you know. I didn't know this was such an important part. Oh I didn't know that's why President Obama didn't get more accomplished and so Batson me is really exciting and really valuable and it makes it all worth it because I mean we spent months working on this and so people say I'm voting because of you and we have children who understand it and they understand why it's important of oh it's easier to reach those eighteen year olds there is song and then. I wanted to add showpiece to it because so I was on the One of my former Job League of conservation voters and that broke through that program In through the organization we really focused on the judicial branch and judicial nominees but also People don't know state judges and you just record judges and so we talk about court and bear courts and judges matter when we talk about this. A lot of people don't realize some of those judges for example in Ohio. The Supreme Court. You vote for those judges. They're not just nominated There and so when you sit down where you skip box and then something happens and you go before that judge. Why should they have your bag or you don't know what sort of background may come from? Because you didn't vote. You didn't participate in the process. And so they're gonNA exclude you from it every time every chance that they get so. We wanted to make sure that we hit that. The British government in a more creative way that did not just go on the executive. Yeah no I mean civics lesson via music so you know. I think there's a lot of talking to the Democratic Party right now partly because of this Super Long Presidential primary process that goes on and on and on forever you know about. Are We Progressive Party? Are we a centrist party are we? You know what how? How do we present ourselves in looking at your website and the types of issues that you're talking about it seems like the approach you're taking is you know not like? I'm this far this way or this this way. It's these are the issues that matter and here's fixes that we can have for them. And do you think that that I that is what resonates with voters with? People are talking to them. Yeah I think we all we all want the gold standard the platinum standard right. We want to to wave our hands and all these to happen into happens asked One of my favorite people in the world And favorite quote about dig quite understand at the time but the more I grow more. I go I understand Mrs Michelle Obama's bowling thing that happens in an instant they should take time. And that is so true for our policies We cannot create change overnight and we certainly can't ensure that a lot of the platinum standard things that we want. We'll just get us your through Congress really fast especially when we still don't have the Senate and we definitely don't have the courts so it's so important to to make change and to be progressive with our our our approach And so maybe we. We may get the gold standard but the silver standard now so we create a pathway to that gold standard. And something's won't be able to get through with the ghost and there but we have to work together and we have to make sure that if something something for everybody and so. That's what I'm hearing from voters when I knocked doors and we have a meeting. I ask them. What is your position? What do you care about? It's not about what he went presidential candidates when I get the three am phone. What keeps me up late at night. It's about what what as a mom whose two daughters or the black woman is pregnant and we know that maternal healthcare. It's over African Americans as we talk to these people what he's up at three. Am At night for the DAD is working pretty jobs who's who's being told The economy is great for who? What keep that person up at night. So we have to make sure that we're talking to everybody as we work to create change in policy and not just The the the woke people or the people who are who are so engaged Because we miss the bulk of people who like their voices aren't being heard or the people who are just flat out misinformed about some of the progressive policies that we support and we had and so this is sort of the sandwich method As as we ushered through until we get into the big feast. Yeah Yeah you know and I. I've heard Sherrod Brown speak in person and I remember thinking as he was talking like. Well Gosh when you talk about issues this way feels like everyone's progressive yeah. Everyone is a progressive I've read his book Desk Eighty Eight and I have The luxury of going to that desk and pulling out the door and looking at those names etched into the wood and and hear more about this story but I- our country. Our story in the American dream is progress and so anytime we're moving forward That's progress and to take that away from anybody or any era any group You eliminate the beauty. And what is history? Yeah well so by now. Hopefully all of our listeners are convinced you can do it. You'RE GONNA YOU'RE GONNA flip the Ohio we're GONNA flip it. What are some ways that they can help out with? Your campaign may might be hope. So at me on twitter tweet and share Our campaign money. We the money. I would be remiss if I did not say we'd be buddy. Campaigns are really expensive as a former congressional ever. I appreciate this side of things as much because I was like policy. Walk into the policy getting the bill on the floor and finding a Republican who would be willing bold enough to join us. This is a completely different so my website is Tim. For Congress DOT COM YOU CLICK THAT BUTTON DONATE. You can also sign up volunteers. We have remote phone. Banks have postcard parties all of those things to reach people to ensure that we flip this seat certainly helpful the main county With the most people and most populous county in the district is Montgomery County. That's an obama-trump Pivot County Obama when it twice trump wanted and sixteen by one point so we. This isn't Ohio's not arrestee. I know you mentioned how he talked. About the balance of the state we're data rich state. Were definitely a battleground state where a purple state. We have so many across the state people just needs to be activated to come out and vote again and and the beauty that when we activate them they do show up and they do come out and do votes so this is a turnout race. It's an are plus for sharing this district in eighteen and other attempts is GonNa win it in twenty twenty. I love it. Is there anything else that you want to make sure we talk about? I think ending gun. Violence is is is just so key critical to our future. And I would be remiss if I didn't I say So inspired by the MOMS from the band and the families who who get involved and take action after losing a loved one. I attended some of the funerals from victims from the Oregon. Mass shooting and is simply heartbreaking. I didn't I don't think we talk about week. Desensitized go by Lynch in America. We didn't when I was in high school we didn't have the the rallies in the dipper. Emergency Preparedness where for gun violence or mass shooter. We didn't have any of those drills but I it was a high school classmates have gun violence. It truly until after the mass shooting happened in the Oregon district but when I was in high school we were. It was a team party. I was in the ditch. Someone had guns. Someone had a gun and started shooting a jumped into a dish get shot but I had a classmate who was an innocent bystander. He was shot and killed and we went to his funeral and high school and that that memory I can see just as clear as day with steel. I did not associates that violence me for being in the middle of that And so the mass shooting so I said well how many people are still walking around today with trauma there were not addressing as a country and so we have so much progress to make so much work to do and I know that when I see activists on the ground and I see these mom and dad and his family members get involved. Get engaged and stand up in the face of trauma and heartbreak and pain and they're moving forward. They inspire me every single day. And so I just I just try to honor them as much as I possibly can. Because take their vote in their courageous. And I'm really proud to know minivan to see them in action. Yeah well does. Ray Thank you so much for coming on the PODCAST. And and thank you for stepping up and running. I always want all Ohio districts to flip this. This definitely looks like when we got So I'm super excited about that and I hope we'll stay in touch. Tell us when the Primary isn't Ohio March. Primary Is March. Seventeen twenty twenty so we are just weeks away and we love for you all to amplifier base and ensure that we get over the finish lie to take one the Republicans. Well thank you does thank you thank you for listening to two. Bras talking politics. Part of the dim cast podcast network. Our theme song is called. Are you listening off of the album? Elephants shapes trees by the band immune. And we're using it with permission of the band. Our logo other original artwork is by matthew wetland and was created for use by this podcast. You can contact us at two broads talking. Politics at G MAIL. Dot Com or on twitter or facebook at two broads. Talk you can find all of our episodes at two broads talking. Politics DOT COM or anywhere podcast or found.

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Special Investigation: What Happened To New Orleans' Field Of Dreams? (Part 1)

The Lead

21:22 min | 1 year ago

Special Investigation: What Happened To New Orleans' Field Of Dreams? (Part 1)

"Today we have special investigation about a football field. They were supposed to be built in New Orleans. This was a project that was going to be a symbol of the city's in recovery. We are live tonight from a place they call the ninth Ward Field of dreams a plan community track and football field on the grounds of George Washington carver high school that was destroyed by Katrina lots of powerful. The people were behind the project drew brees saints head coach Sean Payton. Even President Obama mentioned it at a speech in New Orleans in two thousand ten concede resilience and hope exemplified by students at carver high school who have helped to raise more than a million billion dollars to build a new community track and football field their field of dreams for the Ninth Ward and yet today. There is has no football field. There's no stadium just some weeds in an open field and nearly a million dollars missing the Athletics Jeff Dunkin has been investigating the Marshall Faulk field of dreams for years. We'll speak with him about what went wrong. What's been lost and who might be responsible from wondering on the athletic. I'm Cathy Davidson and I'm it's Wednesday October second and this is the lead felt like something great was something of emotion after that. This isn't a story rear view the athlete and it stays with you so jeff. Tell me a little bit about carver high school carver high school. Well is located in the upper ninth ward of New Orleans. A lot of people have probably heard of the lower ninth ward and Lower Ninth Ward. Probably the hardest hit the area New Orleans now because of Hurricane Katrina. Let me show you what's going on right here on live television. There was a boat here rescue operation. The upper ninth ward is just on the the other side of the industrial canal. That neighborhood is one of the more impoverished neglected neighborhoods in the city. and really. I think cover became the probably predominant all black high school in that area. If you grew up in those neighborhoods oh you went to carver high school and was really a source of pride in that community and it's produced quite a few really good football players over the years. Yes certain one of the greatest sources of pride at Carver High School has been that football program produced great players from the seventies on the greatest by I far is Marshall Faulk such a great player. He went on of course become a heisman trophy candidate. San Diego State University run counter left guidebook and then became a hall of fame player in the NFL but he kind of good car on the map. So when does the story story of the Marshall Faulk field of dreams began it actually begins in two thousand seven when Bradford and graduated from the University of Georgia. He was a New York native and was part of the teach for America Program in this program assigns teachers to different areas of leave of course after Katrina. The public school system here have been devastated and I remember driving out school that first morning and I didn't see school. I saw eight trailers in a parking lot of an abandoned school at eight. Am that morning someone walked into my room and told me what I would be teaching that day. All right sure geography teacher that works and he was a former athlete he he played baseball and football they athletic director and asked him to to coach the girls basketball team. I guess types I'm tall actually terrible at basketball long but in a week later the athletic director resigned and Lo and behold a brand new dainik became the athletic director at age twenty two unofficially the youngest athletic director in the State of Louisiana probably one of the youngest athletic directors in the country. I was Kinda racking my brain about how to start a sports program with no money. No facilities studies no uniforms and no real interested in playing sports when basically he just took on that assignment with a can do attitude and he thought you know why why not be and and one of the things he felt like they needed the most was the field to practice on what broke my heart pretty much every day was John Steele and we had to go post op and if you kicked a field goal so on one side and went to a house that was knocked off its foundation as he kicked a field goal on the other side. It went into our abandoned school and that's what we were practising yeah. He definitely came into a situation of from a four point of view. He had really no history. New Orleans at all was a complete outsider cider to the city when he moved here after Katrina he felt like it was really important to try to give the students some kind of hope some kind of a since of pride at carver high school a lot of people will probably ask that question you know why why build the field when when the school still trailers and that's a fair response is that our response to that is that you know the government has stated that they're going to rebuild the school and there's the funding sort what is GonNa fall by the wayside are these community spaces and that's why we put it on ourselves to make this happen. NFL has a program called the grassroots program where they offer seed money to public schools particularly in in new areas like the desire neighborhood like carver high school sits in. You have to raise two hundred thousand dollars. They will match it. The goal was so ambitious you might think organic dreaming but delusional with the NFL deadline a month away. He had to raise two hundred thousand dollars in the middle of this economic crisis in the middle of this neighborhood and then he proceeded to start recruiting students and teachers and tried to raise enough money they knocked on doors made code calls Conducted Car Washes they leveraged any relationships they had in the New Orleans area and it slowly started to catch fire and they raised two hundred thousand dollars and they may the deadline and ended up hitting the grant awarded to them and from there it just took off drew brees threw his foundation. The brees dream foundation gave Money Sean Payton head coach of the New Orleans Saints also gave money through his foundation. Elissa Milano actually gave through an old spice advertising campaign and slowly got enough attention to where some major corporations like Nike Chevron also started contributing resilience and hope nope exemplified by students at carver high school. President Obama came to New Orleans to deliver a five year anniversary speech at Xavier Xavier University. You're live tonight from a place they call the ninth Ward Field of dreams Anderson Cooper based his daily show a three three sixty basted site of the proposed stadium and he interviewed Brand Board. Danny can cover high school officials on the site for his show. The school got destroyed during the storm completely took about ten feet of water down here and still this way about five years later and so as this campaign gain momentum and raised hundreds of thousands of dollars there was also a guy named mark ripple who got involved mark. Mark Ripple is one of the partners at the largest architectural firm in the state of Louisiana. Margaret didn't know Rambler Danika at all he had had one conversation with him at him in a coffee shop in town and was immediately on board with with the plan being born and raised here and going through Katrina. We all saw recognize was it was not the big it was not the state of Louisiana or the federal government or even the mayor that in my view sort of turn the tide New Orleans it was collective action of individuals like Brian that you said you know who better than me. Let's do this arc ripple and his partners after Katrina had kinda made a commitment to each other that they wanted to take their company beyond just the bricks and mortar repair work that was going on in the city and they felt like the field of dreams project was a perfect opportunity to do that particularly in the ninth ward that with all that it represented all of the pain thanks that went through that happen in that neighborhood that Brian recognize is that it could be a symbol of rebirth that it really could it could be a catalyst it could be a rallying point for the community something to build off so he he was immediately drawn and agreed to join the project for free he did all of his work and along with other members of his firm pro bono because they wanted to be able to help make this thing become a reality and what was the vision for the field a basic stadium they weren't going to be able to have an Olympic track. It would have lights five hundred seat bleachers and who would own it. It would be donated to cover highschool so I guess under the auspices says of the Orleans Parish School Board so Brian Organic and Mark Ripple have this streamline vision for the stadium and they've raised just barely enough money to build it so when things start to get complicated so Bradford Dainik at the advice of the principal principal at the time wanted to being -clusive in the planning of the stadium project he brought in some community members some alumni members of carver our highschool on the Ninth Word Field of Dreams Board of directors. This was GonNa be the Communities Stadium. They wanted to be a centerpiece of the entire desire neighborhood a gathering place for people in the community. Come to their kids could feel safe and so they wanted community support and they felt the only way to do that was to start including community members and alumni end and a formal basis they wanted them to be engaged aged and have ownership of the vision and plant and so when these community members joined the board and got involved what was their vision in for this field they wanted to do a much grander project and they really felt strongly that more money needed to be raised and so their their their plan really conflicted with the plan of the founder. Bradford Anik who wanted to get the stadium built as quickly as possible possible to generate momentum in the community there was a think a divisiveness that started to form between the two sides and under this community groups vision and of the stadium who would have ownership the board of directors would operate and own the stadium they would run it as a outside I party and eventually I think they wanted to be able to benefit carver high school in some capacity but it would be run by a separate entity not run by the school right not run by the school that the field of dreams board would have ownership and run the stadium. The lead is sponsored by Ziprecruiter. If you've ever hired you know it can be a slow process when cafe alturas. Coo Dylan Moskowitz needed to hire a director of coffee for his organic coffee company. He learned this the hard way so he switched to Ziprecruiter. Ziprecruiter doesn't depend on candidates finding you. It finds them for you. It's technology identifies people with the right experience. You get qualified. Candidates Fast Dillon also use ZIPRECRUITER's candidate rating feature to filters applicants so he could focus on the most relevant ones and that's how he found his new director of coffee in just a few days days with results like that. It's no wonder four out of five employers who post on Ziprecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Seaway ziprecruiter recruiter is effective for businesses of all sizes trust Ziprecruiter for free at our web address ziprecruiter dot com slash lead. That's ziprecruiter dot com slash L. E. A. D. ziprecruiter dot com slash lead ziprecruiter the smartest way to hire and Jeff. I remember after Katrina there was a lot of tension in New Orleans around and outsiders coming in and making these city planning decisions. Do you think that dynamic at play with this stadium project as well like. was there a sense of who are you to come in and tell us how to build a field and run it. This is our community absolutely no question that that played a role in this at there was a very emotional channel traumatic time in the initial years after Katrina. There was a lot of mistrust in the community a lot of empty promises a lot of unfulfilled commitments that had caused I think in led to understandable mistrust of authority and especially especially from outside authority we had a lot of urban planners coming in trying to you know do good trying to help in the recovering any way they it could but they were seen as a carpetbaggers if you will they were gonna come in make these plans than they were. GonNa leave and go back to their homes in other cities cities other states and they were going to be a part of living here so no one in New Orleans wanted an outsider coming in telling them how to make the new in New Orleans and so as this tension develops between Brian and the community members who are now on the board how how do think shakeout will brian started to realize that there was a real conflict and he could not find a way to resolve it and he felt like the best way to resolve it was to step away he felt like he become a lightning rod an an unwitting lightning winning ride but it it in all of this conversation's it started to become a US versus them and so he felt like the best means to the end here was for him to step away and to kind of hand the project off to the people in the community and the alumni he didn't formally resign but they they had a a groundbreaking ceremony in September two thousand thirteen. He was a celebration at George Washington carver high school as Recovery School district leaders teachers students and local lawmakers cheered along awaited groundbreaking for their field of dreams even though they they still were having problems behind closed doors and were still clash over the future vision of the project. Everyone involved agreed the best way to intentionally raise more money was to gain publicity through press conference showing that they were going to get started on groundbreaking. They'll have to raise a half million dollars but today's event is designed to give the community and student their home. It'll be really great for lots of political leaders civic activists. Were there a high school school. Football team was there. We have people backing US like this makes us want to go to extra mile just showed him every Tom Gale Gale Benson Saints Owners attended and that at that event Brian Organic spoke. He was one of the featured speakers but he was very much in the background. the guy that had become the face of the entire project was now in the shadows and shortly after that Mark Ripple who is still very much involved in the planning as an architect and designer of the of the project and he it had received an email from one of the members of the of the board saying that she would be taking over as the project manager and that all well business on the project going forward should be directed directly to her in a brand new and it was gonna be involved anymore. I you know I'd I'd love somebody to explain what happened now. I've never gotten a clear answer as to why Brian was heavily involved in the first two years of the project and then was apparently dismissed from the project by the Board Mark Ripple and his firm stayed on for a full year were heavily involved in the planning but it became apparent to him that these delays and allow the internal bickering and the conflicting visions even internally internally with the board after Bradford left that this was becoming a fruitless project that it was never going to get accomplished. It's the only thing in my life I've ever walked away from. Any project never resigned from a project. This is the only one and of course what's ironic is it's the one that meant the most to me a horse it was it was tough. It was tough and it's still tough. It's still difficult because you do you go back through and say well if I talk it out. If we'd have done this with the don that maybe we could have helped the board. Take this to fruition so he submitted his official letter of resignation resignation in late August two thousand fourteen on tomorrow's episode of the lead the second half of the athletics joint investigation negation into the Marshall Faulk field of dreams back in the nineties She was convicted of tax fraud. Somebody's got got some explaining to do. There's nothing at the proposed stadium site but an empty barren field Here's some other stories we're following the lead an investigation by NBC News reveals that more than eight hundred fans have been injured by foul balls at Major League Stadium since twenty twelve injury suffered as a result range from concussions to vision loss and in two thousand eighteen the death of seventy nine year old woman at Dodger Stadium Thirteen teams have expanded protective netting as a result of Fan Injuries Ohio State University Athletic Director Gene Smith has ramped up his criticism of California's newly. We signed law that will allow college athletes to profit off their name and likeness. Smith said Monday there will be no compromise between the NCAA and California yeah. We're other states that might pass similar laws. Smith is on an NCAA working group examining how to deal with California's new law he has said previously he would not schedule any games in California if the law were enacted and finally arap beef has broken out in the NBA last week shack released a new song saying Portland Trailblazers Blazers Guard Damian Lillard was not one of the League's best guards Lillard. A rapper himself responded with a distract of his own on Tuesday saying quote. Kobe won you them rings. We'd like it if you would complete a short survey to tell us how we're doing go to wondering dot Com Matt Slashes Survey. That's wonder dot com slash survey. They'll have an opportunity to tell us what you like about the show and what you'd love to hear in future episodes also from wondering and the athletic I'm under skelter and could beat the Davidson C._A. Tomorrow.

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Behind The Lens episode 98: Bonus episode

Behind The Lens

57:49 min | Last week

Behind The Lens episode 98: Bonus episode

"This is a bonus episode of behind the Lens with the deans of Xavier University and Dillard University HP. Goals in New Orleans on September second the president of Dillard and in new. Orleans wrote a letter to the students staff and Faculty of their schools informing them that they are already participating in the national vaccine trial being conducted right now by pharmaceutical company Pfizer and run locally by the ochsner medical system they write our communities have been hit hard by the covid nineteen pandemic with heroin consequences for the lives and health of our fellow citizens overcoming the virus will require the availability of vaccines effective for all peoples in our communities especially are black and Brown neighbors. Phase three vaccine trials have begun across the nation including in New Orleans. It is of the utmost importance that a significant number of black and Brown subjects participate so that the effectiveness of these vaccines be understood across the many diverse populations that comprised these United States, our health reporter, Philip Kiefer and I spoke to Dr Walter Kimbro and Dr C., Reynolds. About their decision to participate in the trial and they're letter encouraging others to do the same, we were unable to have them on the phone together due to scheduling conflicts. So we spoke to them separately up I portion of our discussion with the Dean of Exeter University of Louisiana, a Haitian native Dr See. Reynolds Brett received his undergraduate degree in biochemistry from Columbia University and has a PhD in biochemistry from Mit Dr Herat on behalf of myself and Philip, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you to start off with. How did you? Come to be part of the trial reunion solicited specifically to participate or did you come it on your own? I. About Detroit seem. I guess I just need to recruit. Physician my own personal physician. And who alleged disloyalty And I saw. And I am basically I. I mentioned I'd be interested Gates Smart Formation About in descending commission about. And he came back to me and says leasing since is lamentable record son Dr Directorates. Basically as I see nothing that trump of the trial. And your health an but they'll follow pursue. That was my initial interaction. and. So when I got information about the trial process and things like that. That was dug vaccine. In that it was on what face was face to treats three combined. The and that also told me it was important that anyone should know that the the first safety. have been the this was about. which puts A. Little more destroyed. I also knew that there were some people might say the heroes wet stepped up before where list themselves for the face one on vaccines as well, and they were people like me you and your people are on. The West Coast. So I was quite willing to to be a member of Detroit. When I when I had my? My I saw evaluation. Shots. I had commissioned with with with. Walter to Kimbro in their shared that with investigating mentioned to me that he had considered commuter trump because he himself knew about the low. Inclusion, of African Americans missing also both of us are aware that a number, the of victims of both on chasing also. A much higher significantly higher among African Americans know of other people as well in the of people that seem to get that was negative. Let me. Make Children. So that was the issue basically. Will Kimbrough himself out see Walter zeal to? My brother President Dillard step to offer himself as well and that's when we discussed that punk. She shared. She shared this without with Arkansas Skinner's faculty just let them know. And what we let them know that we had been in Detroit that I had done my injection of identified the second. And the and the. And the in in what I said is a encourage people are knocking out communities also be. To consider me members of the trial for the reason, the biscuit renew that the percentage of emerges in other people were stub wearing in the low single digits in if in the really as a as a need Austin of our chemists are what I do know is that as we go through this guy to understand how the effects of that scene in different populations unique representations. The question he don't all people's equally. Produce Production for reasons G toxins. That's something. To look into exactly, we take serum blood sample from from different subjects in the. Arts in other tendency. Bites. Is a protection coping by team because we are not the ovulation and you'll. receive all the styles in the production cycle. This group which what is the case incidents muscle groups people w testing. And then what I know and to to say this is equally effective. Another suspected people is important Richard Bill from the get-go. Not Afterwards. In specifically in different people when you say in different people, you're talking about people of different lengthens all subsequent ablation Alec and extreme kissed as scientists coming up is the disparity in. The inclusion of different peoples in different groups. Up for clinical trials I was always a also aware of some of the failures can trust to just needs. You include different people's that I mentioned that there were many drugs tested only on men different. We never knew the effect. Dr To buy happens under control was the dosages in what the symptomology will be associated with us. You think about it back bent that stupid but we were stupid. But also there were there kimmy injustices in how we use a trinity trials will not fully include. African American really didn't confession marriage because sometimes they will twenty misuse steeds. Every one of them were trials in the native native peoples. That documented. Exist. I also know that we've had many years of effort to actually make sure that trials transparence into show that the people involved in overseas trials need municipalities, committees, vague and bring other people. To talk the seat and make sure that consent in that people have been mysterious at central. Ask Him. About your training as a biochemist threats. Yes. If you participated in a clinical trial before or you considered it before only subjects but but not not inexact seen trump before. I tradition. al-agiz we also understand. What about the w accedes different special vaccines I it different people. Gina type issues that that that that concert maxine to different people's isn't blocked. So I think it's an we have our in any population with a vaccine delicate work on nominees. Just don't don't union spots, but they benefit because if we have heard of unity. If everyone the majority of that's needed there's nobody to infect. So that's important to know, and you only understand that in laws perspective trial. That's important. That's the goodness and the other pieces about understanding that we are. Not about sensible that WHO's going to be a service to our communities some step up. Some, of us cannot because of their health is right as soon as have to step up and I decided that. My agent type I should've I. How Howard the risks of the trial described before your participation? Well, the risk trials. The basic risks that was seen the initial safety studies own were there. There could be some adverse thing from apple. The Vaccine Apple has even the possibility of actually. Making someone more central to none of. That that that that know. You would see those in the launched for them into law in large trial. The risks themselves are rather not unlike the reset William seem with many vaccines, measles, meningitis orphan vaccine. Show you the likelihood of getting a little bit fever. On that may last deal. So muscle rundown feeling you get when one woman feeling sick that's because your body's responding to. These are not altogether pleasant about a vaccine. But benefits are. What more Can you walk us through what your participation? Actually it looks like when did you receive your first injection? How many won't get long? AGO that I went into my first shot. A when I arrived date, and so it a Kobe by a code nineteen tests nasal. Not Fun. But. Those are seconds seem by twenty seconds. But are they checked to see what would the COVID nineteen of? The lab they have that they are those data. Then, they will sit down to your. Time Ministry. And make sure that nothing missing that you may not. receive from the data from their own because they have my medical records some. But also things that you've done with acceding any any response, any responsible classes that I need them? Create a concern. They. WanNa. Know exactly. What I wear masks searched on practices that can considering in their being when they cut all the data would wear masks Chengdu, sept to. Things like that. They also speak of all the risks that have occurred are. On unforeseen risks of people actually bet debbie actions she's widely by excludes people medical problems like. Cardiac issues. That were done sample they would speak about Saddam. Nadda emerge as a child right convinced the members behind the WanNa know about that because that's the things. Factor and then the. Physicians managing the trials. Evaluate that means decided whether everything care they come back. So he keeps you waiting because they take time. So it's a good two three hours and they come back and meanwhile we have the lab, the the pharmacy preparing the vaccine, the lapse of pharmacy. Compare that scene which is. Decision. Basically, become look the sleeve. Let you go because we need to make sure you're not having rapid adverse reactions. What's today types of reaction? Afflicted reaction. And they'll keep your while they won't let you go and then was still wants the when it's time that the brief you take another whether brief you on using an APP misty load on your phone the APPS basically over the next seven days recording symptoms that will give me a thermometer catch on. Take my temperature daily reporting my temperature daily on having headaches. Muscle? Ache. Or, an rate, the mile severe. Mild. Is. Great. stiffs of of to up to very severe. And headaches things like that. Readiness of your odds does even arms the. Counter US too much damage redness stick the chemical, rinse. And Duffy Sony on where the judgment and I felt the, I'm day by the next day in and I admit that. With an Dale to. I know that I was I love to go on bike ride twin twelve Mesa so. Kill me. and. Also. Whether I'm in the injection of in the housing or Placebo I cannot tell you they will tell you. Off. I could surmise some things, but it also could be that the placebo effect semaj initiatives also pretty strong that he madness of the fever of. It's not unusual so it doesn't tell you much. It's amazing. What possible factors it's like it's it's not a magic is real. So there no follow vaccinations it's a single one is. I took a second. To, how will you be monitored going for release a areas that no take a blood sample there is a blood sampling that will be in. May Begin they take a blood sample and you'll be looking for antimony levels. I believe they'll take samples later to see exactly how long the title the title going. So they'll be they'll be leading me. and Say I don't remember this title tell me but I think you'll be in every every month to. Go WanNa see track how does it lasts whatever it is and if And because of remember. The covid nineteen pieces at since the other Occur viruses that cause common colds you and I've been exposed to several times lives. So it is some powerful immunity is not specific. To the Brooklyn to the broadcast Cobra virus that shows up in the blood of people as well, which makes interesting follow but the larger pieces of the lot reach. Because in diary your reporting any coordinating symptoms on the on the dire to gain data. Set said Swab at twelve yourself sticking to bring in. Tests. You can sell swap this interesting to be fun but. There are want to know exactly all of the two groups which grew over the next six in next month's is showing what the directions in which. Infections a difference will tell me what? Do. You know what successful bike in terms of the blood response Oh. Yes. Yes. The antibody is in the enterprise gets of the box because certain bodies blocked the virus from interacting with cells interesting sets they begin if the antibody has stepped yourself having sceptres that bind to like it too reliant on top the seltzer as caused the virus delivered is Nick Lake with your cell. That surface cannot buy. Presents the reinfection cycle that new infected cell at first gets attracted it as virus it's by. design, the device. CanNot. Go to the next level section that the shots of cycle. So. They'll call blocking anti lots. and. So success would be if you can demonstrate the the experimental group have long lasting violent. and. The last thing that even as dancing body tighter. Initially, it's going to go when someone one. Getting certain level when you use them a second time ago with the booster shot, get much be rapidly. And it comes down again. Took it. But. Then when you see infection right because memory. It posted a quickly. So you'll have the antibody level drop and then, but then the memory will be there to really rapidly create antibody producing cells, and that's why I think you may have heard to. Be Proud of people who've been reinfected. We covid nineteen. An interesting one is a potent, so lethal. So. But when he was infected and he could shoot. On. Different. ICE The. In other words via the nicely that ad because should in Europe and Europe, another infection Europe, we can affect the rate but seasons much milder because of community. So that's what we like to see. So that retractions apple, we get colds but we because I remembered immunity of Uncommon Code Irises. Expensive the common cold subsequently a minor. Never anything close to the flu. So you brought this up earlier, but I do want to ask a question directly on it. The letter refers specifically to. Historic racists unethical medical research in the US. Specifically the Ski Experiment Mitch Investigators with the US public health. Service. With home care from a group of white men infected with syphilis. To study how the disease progresses untreated. Let a good set of people. How do you want members of your community that you address the letter to Q. Understand this vaccine trial in light of that history. In that, his in isn't for to use our knowledge to make informed decisions and in some citizens have to do with making sure that you have people can be trusted. We'll manage the vaccine trial the acting the transparent way. Different. Understand that the TUSKEGEE experiment is up to be forgotten. But we should not presume that the experience of today in this tax tribal Pfizer Madonna outdoing. Is the same Tuskegee experiment. What is what the different stuff are like this one is that you do have some comedians elevate transplanted open in in enacted membership with people who actually all of unknown material but also that need me standards for informing people about the trial is very. Very clear going from things like that. That was not clear that in testing experiment was what was your social in Fort? So they are different understanding that the Arizona Pass CanNot prevent us from doing the things that we need to help ourselves. I would admit mentioned something that one of the piece that we must not let that happen. Is the as it was with Maske. which why an innocent point in judgment February when we love couple sized? Suddenly, wearing a mask became question of size side are you more? Were defending ourselves the answer people because essentially the tools that will protect and save lives light we are GONNA decides. Vaccine whether it is a scheduled vaccine whether the trial or win a vaccine is deploying, she need based on good science as masking should be. Allowed to be size in misinformed so that to me from all sales in from our people we love. With basic tools that can protect them. It task you important is we're not letting ski right now in what can the key is that if we want to do differently, we need to be attention. And ask questions buys and what is being done. You have deep expertise in how to. Perform. That kind of scrutiny. How would you ask other members of the? Community who maybe also affected but don't necessarily have the same immunology expertise to to do that kind of scrutiny. Well, I say that with a non science knowledge whether it's any laymen's Asia elsewhere. The NAS ask questions basically can who are. In some property about this And any person should understand that is important for if we all want to benefit from fully vaccines Wilson and to be involved in the APPREC. We also, because we also want to know how will affect us. It is important that some people do that it is not upon that everyone do that. But some people asked to so it is an informed judgement that the that we. Did is an issue in a appeared where trust is a very fragile thing. We have been. Educate not to trust anyone. Speak to your doctor. Speak you speak speaker you trust. Do not speak someone very far away from you. An s instead and some people would have left me involved some people would is for only difficult to come to that level of trust I understand that but understand that others will have to come to that level of trust if you want. To do this well. And we'll have to learn to trust each other in Ingrid ways. Part of that is by being more transport main sure that there are people. Like me. On the black mats or move right. So I think what we want we want others around the table who can be trusted. Can Ask questions but also understand if the people are running these trials, they can fail if they're not communicating to any latent. CanNot came to get justice specialist. Language of basically vaccinations knowledge in drugs or protection can explain to any Lakers. They've talked about the memory that you see your body remembers, right Eight percent can understand that right but then you also have to my side effects toilet side effects by headaches talk about talk about hammocks talk about muscle ache talk about doesn't keep you from comeback took questions people want to know. You see your job is partly being that person is taking on the role of explaining Q.. And phillies is. I think it's also by just giving an example and I come from a school of thought and also religious. Tradition that says sometimes with words but most some of creature was only when necessary. To find what in fact men's what, what what, what can I did wasn't exactly. We could do now do it. Choice but understand. Doctorate Are you? Concerned at all about the politicization you discussed about masking and do you think that there that vaccine has been similarly politicized and does that worry you and part two of that question would be The the rush there's been a lot in the media about the rush to the vaccine that there's there's a there's an impetus from the highest level of government right now to get a vaccine out to the public. Really quickly. So it can be seen as a win. Do you worry that that May? Preclude enough people from if there is a safe vaccine from participating in the vaccine in order to make a difference. Yes. I'd worry about it. I worry contract and will be better into a creatures around us. We'll be silent about the lead the physicians in the scientists who they were. Because, it is creating a matter of trust in his. It is being concise that becomes woodside on one and I and I can and I can tell you that the political creatures while speaking about the sometimes are coming from both sides of the aisle. We have on it's not. It's not just the left right peacedale people on the left were also mitigate against vaccines well, because become question because it's seen as an advantage somebody else. Are the type of weather vaccine truly release is really something that she that she looked by by the clinical insights people, and then informing people I think we also the deserves decide supply that, and we've done it before because essentially does color up from other people when they needed the rock. Better, for that. We keep talking about coming to immunity heard immunity. And I use the metaphor to students basically there to raise hurting enemy like looking at all the analogy of I have to get to the bottom of this cliffs. I can jump off I can use a parachute. Both get into the bomb choice jumping off using a parachute. And then I talking that Patriots bag for you. All are. The only choice took off the cliff note. I think that we've seen a masks. We discern people, we'll get. People killed. To The creek, you're making earlier about setting an example so in July. Repaired by Bloomberg founded eighty, two percent of his Vince in the early stage of the Pfizer vaccine that you're now participating in were eighty two percent of those participants were white Been reported that the maxine roll APP may be delayed or less useful communities of color because so many participants are late in the letter and as you just said you. Brought that you're appealing to the students faculty staff at Dillard and Xavier and sibling institutions to consider participating in this trial or others being conducted because the people in communities served look to us in example how you weigh the responsibility of. The members of the Xavier Community Bit. You're addressing their to join the trials against the responsibility of the Medical Institutions Lake Ochsner like Pfizer that are actually administering them to earn the trust of? Communities of color how do you weigh the the responsibility to participate against the responsibility to make participating? Appealing to to give people at trump's in the APP to participate in. The health care the health care. Industry hospitals all functional and several have have their responsibility earned the trust of the community. Entrusted by the community, you serve instruments part of your mission if that's what you're doing, and clearly we have a lot of work yet to do go sectors as well. Want one of the problems basically the representation of all. Traditions of color. At all sectors of A. Stylish. Estimation. Their responsibility. Responsibility is somewhat different. Because we will initiatives but. We have according to serve the peop- to serve others what. Exactly the example of people of color themselves being in the trump isn't exactly to the rest of the world. Cleaning this up if two dozen or dozens of people from savior or ten dozens of people, from Xavier, on during the trial in significant in terms, of example, we're also need a lot of numbers of people outside of this. Well, the percentage of the low percentage of species in the at this point is actually a national issue because we need twenty thousand to thirty thousand subjects national. So essentially, the message and not the only one sending the message I could see that. Reporting so that we step in to try and basically some of the same question being asked white knew this could number dusky As an old adage. French because it'll be a rhyme. So Kobe. Comparison is not reason. You compared to not situation, but that's not the reason for act comparison does not give you the comparison dusky Jim is useful to know, but it should not. It doesn't determine your your your action. On cycle we have we have struggled. Entrust is some that that. Example of that on the eyebrows. So they are medical students out elsewhere. Walk won the trial of in nurses walks to try when they built. In the shoe clinic. People in clinical settings lead the vaccines. Equal some people volunteering. To be in this first group. In order to benefit everybody else. Thing that's Christian thick. And I feel like it'd be remiss if I didn't ask have you seen the PROPUBLICA story from last week accused on September second that. Of About Exactly. I have seen the study I. I haven't been able to verify all speak twenty about that story. Long clearly. That connotes things happen. It's a fairly. Of a failing that like feeling that is national because of in the middle in the middle of the I would say. That panic that people going through. Even. Hostile you never where patients were always. I grew up. So I'm say that. They need to look out basically to save Zach always being. Only giving the best service to the people we serve. And they they need to troubleshoot that think for the press to look at these issues is actually useful. It opens a is it opens their eyes and that's and. I should mention that vaccine trial right now I think doctors involvement trial. The transact Faisal Stripe. It's a national. I don't see that the failings of any of our institutions in the southwest side here. We all have histories in some of the histories are not very flattering. The question is that do we come to change them to make them our institutions today because they were assets? When you get in demand that they do better than they did in the fifties. And Sixties so yes, I read I read articles trump bike but I think I know them in Cullens at often troubled by as well. So, questions what will lead. The press I also WanNa ask do you know of anyone or Vivere from anyone within Xavier who has decided to join the crown because of a letter? Yes. At they're not many supposed coming off the present stover I, know I know that? And that's Chilean depending of them to do the you may not be many but. Also, I just know that I would not because because of April astronaut shouts anyway and he should. You so much for your time in quite bulk. Keep up the good work I. Think. That one of one of the one of the is letter is actually it's made people ask questions. And I think that sort of critical analysis thinking about what are the issues is import I beat discussed thinking because I don't think engineer passes US something like that. And is HBO Filming Everything, which way but also have those conversations, and hopefully we will not need to have that conversation fifty. Of Rancho. Thank you so much. But you that's Dr Reynold. Barrett he's the dean of University of Louisiana. Up next the Dean of Dillard University Dr. Walter Kendra a native of Atlanta Dr Walter M Kimbro received his undergraduate degrees from the University of Georgia and Miami University in Ohio and his doctorate in higher education from Georgia State University. Again so much for coming on. I wanted to start off asking how did you learn about the maximum trump the first place? So mostly for live at probably span an inordinate amount of time Watson caitlyn route. So either why listening during the day so you hear lots of different stories in one of the key stores I kept hearing was that you don't have people in trials that represent the overall our demographics of the pension and some even argued that. You needed. A greater number of people who are mostly impacted by as well to ensure that the vaccine works. Like one night. To Watson, CNN and hearing about the listening I told my wife. I WANNA do trial and I think there was a story about a news anchor in. Savannah. Lang woman was the first person to be involved in the asked study. So. On my want to do it, but it just go to do report. And last month doctorate is a call me. He say, he tell anybody this. Banks trial. What do you think about getting into it in nearly sort of you know big on the field of science, and so he said, let's make an appeal to people to participate. But I'm thinking about doing this. Oh. Yeah. So that was easy for me. It was just it was just as simple yet the the research team contact me about ten days later there you spend three hours wondering orientational. You either give portions of vaccine or you get. To see which is saving. So I don't know what I have with the percents Hanford or have anything in you sort of listening to some of the anecdotal stories of oddly on dated anything because I didn't have any kind of re accident next week and I have my second you Jackson. So I don't know what a ham but anyway So we did have in the end we got together. Really. Really. A really generic them here's the research. This. Is An issue a problem we decided that we're GONNA participate. To think about participating. You know there's a lot of days. People have we know testing where just thinking about? That's hard medicines. Upset about like. Jewelry because that's not what we wrong. We say consider I I didn't think I had to explain what consider me but obviously, I did something I had been thinking about doing before he reached out to me. I think it's the least I can do I'm a person who can do my job telecommute people who can people who look like me who were dying disproportionately from this disease so What is my responsibility? So for me I was like is this something I could do. So I chose to do and I asked other people to think about doing it people don't want to hear about Your Business. I didn't realize that people bird upset about the letter. Upset about is you understand it what is happiness for allowed African Americans it breaks up the distrust in medical treatment as a home. So a lot of people have been referencing Tuskegee experiment, which we we put that in a lot. So the were hiding from. You really look we people have issues with this because test why mark is that people don't fully understand testing experience and they have their mind that they injected them with syphilis? No, these people have syphilis. But they never got treated they were just studying. So that's what it was. People don't understand that people are saying you are pressuring students to get involved a letter with students. Parents are still this battery stay out alumni of universities. It was abroad range of the say is to university leaders. Something we're doing we occur to think of attitude that's all it is. But people heart on the like you're you're making the students, the Guinea Pigs and you're forcing on this. Yes I can't force the students to graduate in four years if I could I would have done it a long time ago. So basically, how the hell do you think forcing them to participate in twenty six months dachsie daddy when I can't force people to get an internship or to write a thanking it's a lot of stuff I were forced to do tonight. Our Bet are good things that I can't force them to do. So I'm forced to do this is ridiculous. So I just at the point now on dislike. Europe intitially invested in being upset about something that you don't need to serve but it brings up the bigger issue at which is I think in the medical community they're really concerned because they can't get a representative sample in trials because you have a strong segment of people that are they don't trust is that all? So I I recognize. Best part of the town I can't say I'm not a scientist, but the research communities gotTA figure out how do we get the people who will need this vaccine who have been disproportionately impacted by negatively? How do we make sure that the vaccine works for now particularly don't have enough of them who are willing to be in a trial seen works it's a it's a tough question. Dr Kimbro based on what you just said do you think that the distrust of the medical community from the black community is generational or do you think it's crossed generation? Just cost integration. So as not just people who would be old enough to really understand testy. Some of that's been passed down but this era people who were filled. And I think there's some truth in terms of disproportionate medical care based on race you stories about that. There aren't enough black doctors. So people don't there's not going to the doctors. So it's layer at it's a very complex problem, and so I, think we gotta figure out which I think here's recently a gift one, hundred million dollars Michael Bloomberg game to the ACC medical school to try to figure out how do we produce more black doctors? So we've gotTA have more. Black faces working in black communities addressing coming again issues. So it's multigenerational. Now I say if you have young people who are just saying you know I'm concerned I don't know what they're gonNA put in my body you know and and it's Just I struggle with that because we're more as one person on twitter. Yesterday said, he says, seems like people are more afraid of vaccine virus. has is a profound question. He added sick. I understand it but then I know. So that's the challenge. You might have really good a vaccine that studies. Now African Americans we get the flu vaccine less than the general population. So Kodak the talking about something else but we noticed his deadly. I. Mean. In Louisiana African Americans are thirty three percent of the state for forty deaths. We have one of the highest disparities of poorest proportion population in the country we're like number two or three. Yet you have people who don't want anything to do with the vaccine that's I think you know for me I I just learn how difficult this issue is. I. Did want to ask I mean throw a lot of reasons. It seems like that distrust is fairly well founded. If not freer conversations with Dr Barrett, do you think you would have joined the trial? I would've gotten around to it because it was already on my mind that was just like the signed for me to say, you said, you want to do this. Now you're just made he made it easy for him. So I'd have to go look or anything he was like look I have no contact you. So what's the happened? It was an easy yes for me but it was something I been thinking about. So it wasn't like that that was the first time I have been presented me on the thinking about four blocks when I started to see these stories say the same thing over and over at the end that we don't have a representative sample to make sure this thing words. So that's he's just made it easy for me and I think for me. That was part of for us to have a letter to try to make it easier for people to say if you're thinking about it, we got easy way for you. So that's what that's what happened for me. So. What were the risks of the trial as they were described to you as you understand them now? You know. They go through these spill several hours. They talk about a lot of different days when it might understanding when you get to face three. Chances. Really, bad outcomes are really love because they've already during phase one they really start to make sure that it's safe. So that's why you didn't get the flu vaccine. They tell you this you get a portion of your getting the vaccine, but they need to test it over a long period of time. You just can't give somebody a vaccine look at it for a month into say okay, you're okay with does it create other issues later? Mars I mean there is a level of risk but I tell people this is a level of risk every time somebody goes to McDonald's that we do that every day will willingly you we know there's plenty of size say long term. Damage and we do that every day and there's no benefit for grain humanity for meeting at McDonalds. Early everyday. So at least this is something it has ris- to we don't know what it is in my. You sound like you're probably as much of a news consumer as myself. In Philip, our guests on, I'm assuming you saw the story about the Astra Zeneca trial being paused. I think we're supposed to bury. What I saw as they didn't know exactly why the personally got seat, but they stopped that's the responsible thing the the program worst weeks opposed to that we need to stop say. So what happened that's that's the way it works. You don't have any advances in medicine without some of these tests we have to do that I wanna things I was telling people. You know a lot of people more win Chevron Bozeman pleads to child in blank Hampton. And studies study sustain that they're kind of African American Communist states. So we we mourn loss of somebody who dash cancer prostate cancer three, which overwhelming impacts black. Nobody's participating in a research, the Peter out how do we prevent other people at four years? Old Diamond Fields we just can't create these drugs these these cures now testing them. So I think there is a level of risk and I think we understand that but we live in a society of Ras we do risky things all the time I say particularly in terms of what we put in our bodies in terms of what we eat drink and all that other stuff. You think the publicity. Of the AstraZeneca Trial and the adverse reaction of one participant. ADDS to the distrust awfully affluent. I. Mean that adds to it. I mean the overall politicization of this is a big problem because if you have the president keeps saying, we might have something right before a special day. People don't trust that at all and he comprehends is like I'm not trusted that. Because we've we've watched science safe things that are untrue due to political pressure. We had the CDC savings. You know about you know convalescent plasma that they had to walk back due to people don't trust that that makes it up to try and said I have no issues with anybody who just like? No I'm not doing this huge the reasons why that's fine I get you know. because. There are reasons not to trust and we watch it on a day to day politicized. Bet. There's going to be an announcement prior to the election, but there is a vaccine and our take that. Edge. Is No way in the world was like no because I participated in trial that told me unless they get a good vaccine, it will last twenty six months. That's two years. So you know what I'm saying that the BS for twenty six months in two months later like overdone. No I'm not, I don't trust. So that's that's part of the challenge that makes it. So once again, there's GonNa be a disproportionate impact on the group of people who need the Vaccine Moss, because it's been politicized. How do you decide to trust a trial or vaccine what what brings you to the office it? It's. I don't know I mean I think for me I guess I'm a bootleg scientists undergrad degrees involved. From the conservation culture. University Georgia. So I have A. General Understanding of science there by people don't have. So for me that I have a level of comfort in terms of where you know steadying when you get to a phase three trial what does that look lying? Around half the knowing that they'd gone through several stages to get to this point. I mean it's not good for me to eat. Popeye's away did not do and I love Popeye's I tell people you want my blood type is pricing. That's my. Name I. Think Physical the my you know, my doctor said you you're your back restaurants to average a good lesser hackers. I, work out every day. My mind like I ever spice up is because I'm going to work out for our everyday. He's like you gotta get your levels down I do that roughly to myself. I do I know taking a risk at a should do it but I do it all the time. So with we make those calculations so we just have to not to the same way that this trial is probably much safer than the stuff i. put in my Bible, the things I eat. So you mentioned earlier that you think that people have sort of a a misunderstanding of the details of just ski how do you want members of the community that you address in the letter? So the Hvac you community and Xavier Dillard's specifically to understands to ski especially as it relates to this maxine thrower. I guess. I'll probably at a point of cynicism now that people have born into a narrative, a that C- trials are bad don't do. So now, trying to make sense if people have locked onto a narrative that they want to believe I mean we see it in our politics today you know how much time energy do I see in trying to correct a faulty narrative? At at me, I hope that the medical professionals will step up and do it, and that's probably going to be calling you know doctors and medical professionals. They've got a really get out there and talk about this. I'm not GonNa, convince anybody hedy. So upset the point where it's like you know. Do what you WANNA do? This in our love this band to feel that way. It's like, why am I going to spend in energy arguing with someone over scientific facts when they brought into a narrative that they want to believe if you WANNA believe Tuskegee. is about them injecting over civilised when that is clearly not what happened I can't get you to change your mind and aside for. Certain, this historic oil instances of. Racist medical experimentation there continues to be widespread racism in medical care and research. And outside of the flat medical community, how do you understand the responsibility of medical community at large? To. EARN, the trust of the black community that you're addressing in this letter. I`ve Reports stays people are saying one of the ways to do that is that there has to be partnerships with. Trusted Blank Institution so in Black Churches, with historic might be institutions, which like I say Harry Medical College in Nashville is an ACC you they're doing trials I know they had some people were upset but they didn't get sank perspective we got near. Doing the vaccine. So it just depends. So maybe it wasn't you know we ought medical schools maybe that was part of it, but there has to be more people who look like the community saying I understand his shoes. This is how it works. We need for you to give us a trial. But there there there have to be people and even in this study that we're working with with Ochsner the you know the League when elite people as African American I think lead researcher is Latina. He said there are people that are involved in this work, but ochsner is not a brand that necessarily resonates in the black community. Now like a Maharey would in Nashville so they're just have to play a key role. They're just not gonNA to lay can't just come step into stabled onto his trial people often that they hang up So it it's tough if you're. Sort of. Maybe, your dream. Or Austin or some other local institution conducting this kind of research to make those partnerships with. Trusted members of the Black Community At me Fluke Burger ships right advisors. We'll redoubt look way. have. No idea is I think just sort of watching some of her reaction that was not rooted in any science effects right man this is a deeper problem. And I think the problem gotta be addressed even before you bring in medical. Experts like arsenal, you know how do we think more grassless talk about health and health disparities in black communities and there has to be there Brana conversation turns on the things we do to ourselves. Lack of care that we received I think we've got a really lean in a little bit more half Rutta conversations about health because Kobe is a health disparities disease you know as much isn't anything else and we're still having A. Conversation. It's accepted to say you know what? Point in time in Louisiana early this summer black seventy percent of the destined to stage it's like Dat rain all kinds of alarm bells me and it didn't Nebraska community. So there's gotta be a broader health disparities compensation before we could even get to the resolution we don't talk about enough gotta be done it higher education, Institutions K. through twelve churches. all-black organizations have to spend some time. Talking about health disparities Reagan we don't this is not a part of our general conversation because some of it is some of his painful because we have talked about our behaviors that are not healthy and that's it. That's the start of two. So it's not just like we're getting bad medical care. We have. We need some medical care because we have too much sugar. We're not working out for not doing this you know, and there's a reason for some of that to we need. A Complex, problem is a lot of different issues. I think we have to address but as far as I think is a health disparities conversation. First before we even get to the partnerships with other medical ages, I, guess they WANNA keep on that for a second his I'm also curious how. The responsibility of institutions that have. Participated in. Historically racist system. Do the work of outreach not play all burden return on the black community at is that it? Yeah No, no, I think you're right. You know. Absent. Trust. So how how do they? some people will say there needs to be some kind of you know. Restorative program they're creating or supporting some clinics or We're there. I mean financially supporting efforts to start off to improve the health i. think that's where it has to start to be like reporters community will help get people healthy i. Think. You can start doing, but that's gotta be a financial investment as made in those communities they. I don't think it's happening working through GIF pronounce process. So I think that's what we're asked to stay because I think you are right there. They have to just sit back and saying y'all were fix it for us and they will come jumping this. It's not gonNA work. So late, they have to make trump kind of investment to help people do their work and I think there are plenty of nonprofits that are focused on addressing health disparities could really use the right time that that's GonNa be tricky too because it means something for thanking you must have been paid by Ochsner. Put Out. Anything to do this, I want to do tell you the think about this, but there is a census member like how even think like that so I was you know, but they probably should for some nonprofits. Not to encourage somebody to participate in something. But to give them programs are find for rams at will promote healthy lifestyles. That's that's a good use of of money to do that. Then you don't need as many of these other studies as you're trying to do more preventative work and like I would be remiss if I didn't ask about. This story from Propublica out last week. Have you seen that story? I saw already started. To participate on August twenty fifth. So I think that added another, which is dislike me. y'All messing up all the way around people aren't GonNa want to. In studies win you know this report says I mean normally people do you WanNa die around but then if you're disappointed send him On the families that are not equipped to handle covet that's bad too. So I don I haven't seen a baby respond to their any kind way, but then that make people skeptical. Who say with what we're doing this with us but there are other moves to we're not selling any different just saying look at the idea of participate. How can you do without even I don? So but I think it hurts as as an agent to be able to recruit a diverse group of people because that's story then gives people. It's another thing I see. There you go. Two steps on the message that we're trying to say, Hey, we really do I mean this is still true that the fact doesn't change relieved to have a diversity of people in these trials that doesn't change no matter what actually did or did not do. But the the fact that they have done something that raises questions harm their ability to do, but we know is needed to be done. To figure out how to fix. and. You started to say something on that said, if you want to love to hear more about it, you said you were enrolled in trial before song. Would having seen that story of foreign ruling in the trial of teams, your decision making. Probably. Not because I know it's a huge organization and the research portfolio is different than the medical the medical care. So probably written. I don't see a reason many nervous because right now the way they tell you is I stop right now at any point in time so I be like. I'm not I'm not gonNA say so I mean I haven't completed even getting the. Whatever I have, I have completed it so I could say, no, I'm out in this it impact. has anyone approach skew and said, I'm thinking about Joining this beaten. A couple Pala Tammy through people. Want. Is a older man who you know he's a sitting I think I can do it. You know now have high blood pressure I take medicine for I was like. You know they go through a full battery to make sure you're able to participate. So they're not GonNa let you do something that's going to be harmful, but there will be people who have high blood pressure who need to take the vaccine to. So it seems like they need something that's going to be saved doesn't challenge bed with the medicine and he takes so I just have to sort of see. So he just thought about it 'cause he was here people sorta complaining mounted he was like. GonNa do it don't do what he said for him? I think. I might WanNa do it for him. It was like how my life I'm tired of doing all this other stuff. So if I can do something to help then as for I think motivation to underlying sick of this stuff. So if I can be any Hilton speeds are limited, you need some more people item whatever we gotta do because I'm cigarettes got to I. Have One child is going to school everyday wanted to start high school that's in the house everyday. See I get out of the house is just being at home by herself dot anchoring. For this to be awful. Thank you so much for being with us today for doing that work we. Appreciate it I. Think so much. You've been listening to a bonus episode of behind the Lens thanks to our special guests, the Deans Xavier. University of Louisiana and DILLARD UNIVERSITY HBO. In the New Orleans area Dr Reynolds Rep and Dr Walter Kimbro also our health reporter Philip I'm caroline. Heldman, thanks for listening.

United States scientist Black Community trump WanNa Xavier Dillard New Orleans syphilis Pfizer Detroit Europe University of Louisiana Xavier Philip Austin Apple president
Another Supreme Court loss extends bad time for Trump

MSNBC Rachel Maddow (audio)

47:13 min | 3 months ago

Another Supreme Court loss extends bad time for Trump

"The. Show we did nine eastern on MSNBC. A principled resignation tonight in the upper echelons of the trump administration. Her name is Mary Elizabeth Taylor and she is one of the highest ranking African Americans in the trump administration. She may be the highest ranking African American woman in the administration altogether She's Assistant Secretary of State for Legislative Affairs prior to that, she was a deputy director at the trump White House with responsibility for nominations in that role. It was her job to shepherd high-ranking high profile nominees through the Senate confirmation process including Supreme Court Justice Neil. Gorsuch and Secretary State Mike pompeo Fed Chair Jerome Powell CIA Director Gina Hospital and on and on. Since moving from the trump White House, over to the State Department Mary Elizabeth. Taylor's job has been pretty cheap high profile as well. She's basically the liaison from the state, department, to Congress as the Assistant Secretary of State for Legislative Affairs. That's a job for which she has a good background. She's a former staffer to the Republican leader of the Senate Mitch McConnell Always Handy to have those kinds of personal connections. Tonight, the! Washington Post was first to report that Mary. Elizabeth Taylor has resigned as assistant secretary of state. For reasons that people who are still in the administration, may find unnerving particularly if they themselves have considered resigning and haven't for some reason. Because unlike all of these other folks who have left the trump administration without saying a word or left without saying much of a word until they decided to put it in a book. Like all these other resignations where we've had to wonder if maybe they were resignations in protest. Honestly? If it's not clear from the way you resign whether or not, you're resigning in protest then. You're not really resigning in protest. But unlike all of those scenarios which we have seen over, and over, and over again in this high turnover, administration Mary Elizabeth Taylor's recognition letter tonight does not beat around any of those bushes according to The Washington Post, she says in her resignation letter quote moments of upheaval can change you shift the trajectory of your life and mold your character, the president's comments and actions, surrounding racial injustice and black-americans cut sharply against my core values and convictions. I must follow the dictates of my conscience and resign as assistant secretary of state. Now again. This is not A. Holdover official, who also served in the Obama Administration? This is not a career apolitical person who's so disgusted. They can no longer stay. This is a lifelong Republican former Mitch. McConnell staffer appointed to multiple trump administration positions including in the White House and in this high profile senior State Department role. And she is making no bones about why she's leaving. WHY TODAY IS! The day is an interesting question. Today, you may have seen the Wall Street Journal published an interview in which the president made a number of jaw dropping claims. And also just some absurdities. The president was asked in this interview whether he knew what June teeth was when he initially had scheduled his first reelection rally on the date June tenth in Tulsa Oklahoma this is how that went on the interview question? Do you know what it was meaning. Do you know what June eighteenth was president? I. Did something good? I made it famous I. May June Eighteenth Very famous? It's actually important event. It's an important time, but nobody had heard of it, very few people had heard of it actually a young African American secret service agent knew what it was. I had political people who had no idea that you ever hear of June eighteenth before. Again today a principled resignation from one of the highest ranking African Americans in the trump administration assistant secretary of state Mary Elizabeth Taylor, saying that the president's comments and actions surrounding racial injustice and black-americans cut Sherp -ly against her core values and convictions and quote I must follow the dictates of my conscience and resign. The president has had a pretty terrible twenty four hours for the second straight time this week a major us. Supreme Court decision has gone against him. The first one of course was earlier this week when the court sided with LGBT civil rights. And against President Trump's claims that employers across the country should be allowed to fire you simply because your boss thinks you're gay or trans. The court disagreed. President lost that case. Today the court said President Trump's effort to kill the DACA program and deport hundreds of thousands of young people who've been here since they were kids the court ruled. Today that the trump administration so bungled the effort to kill that program that it was an arbitrary and capricious action under the constitution, which means they can't block the DACA program in that program at least for now still stance. We're GONNA. Have more more on that coming up later tonight. Supreme Court ruling came today just hours after the first excerpts started to emerge from the new book by trump national security adviser John. Bolton Bolton of course famously pulled the covers up over his head and pretended no one was home when he was called to give testimony during impeachment proceedings. But his new book nevertheless says basically Oh yeah trump totally did the thing he was impeached for in terms of making US aid to Ukraine contingent on Ukraine generating dirt that the president wanted to use against Joe Biden in this year's campaign. Bolton confirms in his book that the impeachment effort was basically correct. You provides a firsthand account of being in the room with the president and hearing. The President articulate that contingency for the Ukraine aid would have been nice to have that under oath Mr Bolton, but. You. You Bolton's book also says that President Trump went to China for help with his reelection. Effort as well and this bit. From from Bolton's book has gotten considerably worse just in the past few hours. What it says in Bolton's book is is this. He's talking about a meeting between president trump and the Chinese leader last summer at the g twenty in Osaka. This conversation happened about five weeks before the call president trump made to Ukraine which got impeach that whole. Do us a favor though call about five weeks before that call for which he was impeached. This is what the book says trump said to president. Xi of China quote, trump then stunningly turned the conversation to the coming US presidential election, alluding to China's economic capability and pleading with she to. He'd win. Bolton says quote. I would print trump's exact words, but the government's pre publication review process has decided otherwise. That was what we had as of last night in terms of available excerpts from Bolton's book. But now reporter Gabe Sherman Vanity Fair says he is obtained an unredacted version of John. Bolton's manuscript, the one with all the bits in it that the white. House made Bolton take out before the thing was actually published and according to that reporting in Vanity, fair, even though Bolton says in the book that the pre publication review process of the White House. He couldn't print trump's actual words according to the unredacted. Manuscript from Bolton for Vanity Fair. What president trump actually said to the president of China in that conversation was quote. Make sure I win. President said to the leader of China. Make sure I win. So. What are we supposed to do with that? President's National Security Adviser says he was in the room and he witnessed president trump demanding Ukraine. Help him in his re-election effort right the act for which the president has already been impeached. Now, the same national security adviser says he was also in the room with President trump when trump said to the president of China, while discussing trade details right while discussing substantive policy that matters to the American people and the American economy wall, discussing those things, the president brings up his re-election effort and says to the President of China quote. Make sure I win. What do we do with that I? Mean separate and apart from the president, also reportedly telling the Chinese president that he should go ahead with building his concentration camps because that's the right thing to do. I mean just asking for more foreign help holding onto the presidency in this country. What do we do with that? To someone I mean does the House. Impeach trump again. Is there reason not to? Tomorrow is June eighteenth, a commemoration of the emancipation proclamation, specifically the delivery of that news to people living as slaves in Texas delivery of the news that slavery had come to illegal end in this country. In conjunction with that date House Speaker Nancy Pelosi today ordered the removal from the capital of the portrait's of four previous speaker of the House who served in the confederacy? Republican Senate leader Mitch. McConnell will not agree to Speaker Pelosi's requests to remove confederate statues from the capital, including the Big Statue of Jefferson Davis, the former confederate president, but she can order these portraits down. Of Former Speaker of the house. Who served the confederacy? She can order these portraits down from the speaker's lobby and today she did. I should mention Jefferson. Davis's name is now going to be taken. taken off a parkway, a road that runs past Xavier. University of Louisiana, which is the nation's only Catholic historically black university. They've just decided in Louisiana that while a statue of Jefferson, Davis may still stand at the US. Capitol thanks to Mitch. McConnell. They're going to take Jefferson Davis's name off the Parkway in Louisiana and they're going to name that parkway instead for the longtime president of Xavier. University President Dr Norman See Francis. That's Louisiana. And Mississippi. They decided today they would no longer fly. The Mississippi State flag with its confederate stars and bars in front. Of Bay Saint Louis City Hall. VOSS footage of them taking down that same flag, the stars and bars confederate monument on the Mississippi State flag. This is them taking it down in front of city. Hall in Gulfport Mississippi yesterday. City Council on Gulfport voted. Unanimously to stop conducting city business under the confederate flag, they took down the current Mississippi state flag that has the confederate emblem on it, and they instead raised up. What's called the Magnolia flag, which was the first official state flag of Mississippi, which does not have those confederate markings? This kind of moment in American history it seems both. Good I guess and also unbelievable, but it was necessary. To move the president's rally in Tulsa. From tomorrow June eighteenth to Saturday instead. Wants some poor young African-american Secret Service officer apparently got the job of telling the president. What June eighteenth was these he'd never heard of it before. Tomorrow and Tulsa there will be an all day event in the historic Greenwood district in downtown, Tulsa the site of the Tulsa Race Massacre Ninety nine years ago where white mobs burned down what was known as block? Wall Street relatively affluent black business district Tulsa killing hundreds displacing thousands of people. The president had apparently planned to tour the Greenwood district as part of his Tulsa trip now, Oklahoma's governor has said. Maybe that's not such a good idea. There will also be June teeth, demonstrations and events all over the country, including a lot in Washington DC tomorrow. And in major cities everywhere, and a number of tomorrow's events are going to dovetail of course with recent protests against. Disparate policing and police violence against African Americans. To that point? Earlier today in Fulton County Georgia the two police officers who have now been charged in the shooting death of twenty-seven-year-old Rashard Brooks. Those two police officers turn themselves in at police headquarters, former officer Garrett Ralph who shot Brooks twice in the back, and was fired already in the immediate aftermath of the shooting. He now faces a total of eleven charges, including felony, murder and multiple counts of aggravated assault. If convicted, this former officer could face the death, penalty or life in prison without possibility of parole, he's currently being held without bond. He turned himself in today. Second officer on the scene of Sir Devon Brosnan who is not fired, but was reassigned desk duty in the wake of the shooting. He's also been booked after turning himself in. Today's been booked on three charges including felony aggravated assault. He surrendered late this morning. He was released about an hour later after posting thirty three thousand dollars bail. Shortly after that, interestingly, he didn't interview. Speaking publicly for the first time since the shooting here is in that interview with our colleagues. Katie Tour Chuck Todd, today. Give any message to Mr. Brooks's family that you want to express. And Is totally toll tragedy that a man whose his wife that night. It has been six days since Ray Brooks was shot twice in the back and killed. It took only five days for Fulton County District Attorney Paul Howard to bring charges against the two officers involved. Yesterday, what was just a remarkable press conference? He laid out the case against the charged officers and pretty stunning detail. He offered up publicly a wide array of evidence that had not previously been made public. He talked about the final deadly altercation in which brooks scuffled with police before grabbing one of their tasers and running away. In video taken at the scene Brooks seem pointing that stolen stun gun in the direction of officer Ralph off, then responds by Shooting Brooks twice in the back. One of the most striking parts of that news conference came when the District Attorney Mr Howard talked about what happened after restart brooks was shot as he lay dying on the ground the district attorney said that for two minutes and twelve seconds. Neither of the officer gave any medical attention to Mr, Brooks. Instead this is what he says played out. When we examined the videotape in our discussions with witnesses, what we discovered is during the two minutes and twelve seconds. That officer Ralph Actually Kick Mr Brooks while he laid on the ground. While he was there fighting for his life? Secondly from the videotape, we were able to see that the other officer officer bras. Actually stood on Mr Brooks his shoulders. While he was there struggling for his life. Support! Those shocking claims district attorney Mr Howard laid out part of his case, showing still photograph that indeed appears to show officer Ralph Kicking Ray Chard Brooks as he lays on the ground after having been shot twice. He also showed photos that he says show that one of officer offs bullets hit a nearby vehicle. That had three passengers inside at the time. In another? Move announced that the second officer charged the one charged with aggravated assault had in the DA's words become a cooperating witness for the state. That second officer would in effect be willing to testify against officer Ralph. Today that second officer Mr President and his lawyer contested that assertion in that interview with MSNBC. All the extensive evidence there appears to be in this very upsetting case. There's still quite a bit that up in the air, and and there's one specific thing here. Procedurally, that's interesting and worth watching I mean despite this large amount of evidence that the Fulton County district, attorney has gathered and made public, and despite the remarkable speed, with which she has charged these two officers. The himself is not in a position to bring about an actual indictment. According to Georgia State Law, a grand jury now has to convene to determine whether or not the two officers should be indited. But because of the pandemic know grand juries are scheduled to meet until at least October. So procedurally. How much of a challenge does that present I mean here the district attorney has this hugely significant case on that's drawing the attention, not just of Atlanta, but of the entire country. What should we expect to happen moving forward here? How is this going to result joining us now is Paul. Howard junior has the district attorney for Fulton County. Georgia Mr District. Attorney Mr Howard. Thank you so much for joining US tonight I. Know This is an incredibly busy time I. appreciate you making time to be here. Thank you for inviting me. Can you talk to us I about the swiftness with which these charges were brought? It's. It's notable. In terms of criminal charges brought me specifically, notable, compared to other instances of police involved shootings where in many cases people have called for. To be held accountable for officers to face potential consequences, and these things have languished for so long. You seem to have been able to act relatively quickly here. We were and we were able to do it because the evidence was available we've had many other cases involving police conduct. Where in we didn't have videotapes we didn't have. Our witnesses and most of our witnesses were in fact, police officers who would not give statements to the DA's office, but this case was different We had three hour witnesses witnesses whose car was damaged. We have several noble set seven other witnesses who saw but happen during the incident, but we also had eight videotapes of what had happened, so we had the evidence before us, and that allowed us the move reps with. What can you tell us about? Officer Brosnan the second officer charged here you. You said at your press conference that he's a cooperating witness for the state that he's cooperating with the county's investigation today. His lawyer in an interview on this network seemed to contest that, can you? Can you shed any light on what's going on there and what? You meant specifically by describing his cooperation in that way? Well as I've said many times, we will stick to our. Statements at the press conference of the presentation? with the attorney far Mr Bras Den- shortly before the presentation and I'm sure what he communicated to me at that time, but I do understand that this young officer is under a lot of pressure pressure from his colleagues, and quite possibly from the police union, so I could understand why he's making some of the statements that he's made the day, but we still stand by what we announced that the press cards. Would your case hinge on his testimony concerning the behavior of the other officer? No it would not. It would certainly assist us in aid us, but it wouldn't. He John? we've already got nee statement from office. Browse the net we will use in some form of fashion, and as I indicated the his council. It would be great or the Brooks family. The wife Mrs Miller if he decided to. Step forward. Apologized said. To tell the world what he would know about this incident I think it might help the case to be resolved a lot quicker if he did bet. Described this more than two minute period, two minutes twelve seconds after Rashard Brooks shot, and he is on the ground, and you said during that two minute and twelve second period these officers after Bosnian officer Brosnan and Ralph provided no medical assistance. To Mr Brooks as he lay dying, what should they have done in that instance? According to the UH, Atlanta Police Department their own regulations. There S P.'s as they described what they should have done is to provide immediate medical attention up, but they did not do that they stood around for a while. officer RAF as we've said kicked him on two occasions office. A Brosnan US stood on what I would describe as his chest, and then he moved. Moved around and he stood on his arm. It was only after that could see a what looks like another vehicle, a police vehicle show off in the soon as that vehicle appeared on one of the offices than left to retrieve some kind of medical bag or apparatus, treat him, but otherwise they offered him no medical attention a private time. BET vehicle showing up at the scene. Mr District Attorney One last question for you about this. which is about you in I would understand if you didn't want. Answer this question, but I feel like I have to ask. We've become aware that there have been a number of public threats made against you since you made this charging decision including people using social media to post what they say is your. Your home address threatening violence, threatening to attack you for for what you've done here just wanted to ask if you can confirm that you have received sort of threats and what you make of that, and what effect you expect, that may have on, maybe if not you at least those in your office who are making these difficult decisions and working on this case. Well unfortunately. I have received some personal breads. I guess as long ago is probably two hours ago. Someone is the common burned down my home, but breads are. Racist in nature. Is Unfortunate. Those. Things have happened but I can tell the people who did it that. It's not going to change. What I do is not going to change the way we operate here at the. DA's office when officers involved in some form of fashion of misconduct, we are going to prosecute that case and I'm sorry it has happened, but it's just not going to change our conduct the stand. Paul Howard junior the District Attorney for Fulton, county Georgia Sir. Thank you for making time for us tonight I'm sorry about those threats to you and your department. Keep surprised in this case, the whole nation's the nation's eyes are upon you as I'm sure you know Sir thank you. Thank you for having us here. All right much more to come stay with us. To go to the mall and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they hard I'm Chuck Rosenberg on my podcast, the oath I speak with those who sacrificed for the common good who believe in collective responsibility who do things because they are hard, our conversations on the author thoughtful, civil, respectful essential. We bring these leaders and their struggles and. And successes to life this week, former Surgeon General Vivek. Murthy. There are fundamental core values around decency, Brown kindness, rather compassion this part of our shared humanity. We are truly interdependent. We are stronger when we are together. Join me for season. Three of the oath and MSNBC podcast search the oath wherever you're listening right now and please subscribe new episodes every Wednesday. Hey everyone, it's remain we. MSNBC correspondent and host of the podcast into America another unarmed black man, was killed by police over the weekend this time in Atlanta Rashard Brooks's twenty-seven, the officer who shot Brooks has been fired. The police chief had resigned while across the country protests continue. Why did it have to escalate I? If, he was running away. Let them run. Why did it get to the point where you felt that? You had to chase after him and? Use deadly force NBC. News correspondent Blaine Alexander brings us, the latest from Georgia, and we talk about the emotional toll of being a black journalist covering this moment search for into America where listening right now it's subscribed. The number of people required to wear masks in this country to prevent the spread of Corona virus of that number grew by millions and millions of Americans today, the governor of California Gavin newsom today, announcing that all California residents must start wearing masks in almost all public settings. California's now the eleventh state in the country to mandate masks for non essential workers. It's by far the largest state do so, and it's the first one on the west coast. Last night. The governor of Ohio made a similar announcement, but hers only covers about half the state. That Oregon requirement will go into effect next week. Still most governors in the country aren't enacting statewide mask requirements at all, even as we get mounting evidence of masks effectiveness. We are starting to see individual cities and counties. Go it alone even when they're states won't do it. This for example is Orange County Florida today, the mayor they're announcing today that he will require every person to wear a mask. Same thing in Raleigh North Carolina today also Fayetteville. That ordinance passed the City Council unanimously this week mask requirement is also now the signature of the Mayor of Memphis Tennessee after four hundred and fifty people were newly diagnosed in Memphis in forty eight hours. Honestly, there's so many of these local mask initiatives happening right now. It's a little bit hard to round them all up in Arizona today. At least a dozen cities announced plans for mask requirements, which is a whole lot at once, but that wasn't a coincidence. It's because of a change in Arizona before yesterday. The Arizona Governor Republican Doug Ducey had blocks all local leaders in Arizona from acting any local mask requirement. As far as governor Ducey was concerned. Arizona didn't have a problem. The the that giant spike you see in. Their numbers right the records that Arizona has been setting this week. Highest total cases highest number of ER visits highest number of ventilators in use governor Ducey has not been publicly moved by any of that. He's he's kept trying to brag about Arizona's great coronavirus success, even as the rest of the country has looked on horrified at their numbers. Will yesterday governor Ducey in Arizona apparently broke. And changed his mind. He now says local leaders can ask residents to wear masks to stop the spread of Corona virus even if he's still won't do so statewide. Because he is at least admitting now that maybe Arizona. Does have a problem. There was another stunning reversal on this same issue yesterday in the great city of Montgomery Alabama. Montgomery has eight terrible epidemic. And they've had this situation unfolding over the last few weeks. That has been really bad that hospitals. have filled up. Hospitals have been full up for several weeks as case, numbers have continued to to rise and stay very very high. The night before last Tuesday night this week. Doctors Montgomery went to City Hall and beg for some help begged for some relief. They told that council in Montgomery that that hospitals were filling up not just with people needing care, but with very very sick people needing a lot of care. Talked about having to carry out multiple dead patients per hour from the hospital. They said requiring people to wear a simple cloth masks would do so much good in terms of slowing down the rise in new cases. But the Montgomery City Council told the doctors know. The Council Voted Down The mask wearing ordinance, at which point of the Montgomery advertiser says the doctors who had come to testify. LEFT IN DISGUST Well last night. The mayor of Montgomery Alabama Steven Reid announced that he didn't need the city council's approval to take that lifesaving step in announced at a surprise press conference that he would sign an executive order requiring everybody in Montgomery Alabama to wear masks in public starting tomorrow. But somebody else really in happened at that press conference that you should see. When the mask requirement failed at the city council vote on Tuesday night this week after the testimony from the doctors that ninety percent of their critically ill patients are black when they testified that the situation in the hospitals was damning an unsustainable. That that vote in the Montgomery City Council on Tuesday night failed as the local paper. Put it mostly along racial lines, which means the Black Council members? Basically voted yes, for masks and the White City. Council members voted mostly no. Well the following day yesterday, one of those no votes came back to city hall. He said that he had talked over his vote with his wife. The couple lost their teenage daughter cancer last year. At after talking over his vote at home with his wife, he said he had a change of heart. He says he should have voted. Yes for the Mass co-ordinates any apologized to those montgomery doctors for having fallen short this vote watch this. One of the thank y'All am one apologized. Last night, we had a vote for an ordinance for. Mandatory mask and city of Montgomery. My opinion! was that I was very nearsighted last night. I didn't see the big picture. These doctors came to us last night. And told US everything that we needed to hear. And if one of us in this room went to them today with the condition, we would do exactly what they asked us today. We didn't do that last night. This is not a black issue. This is not a wide issue. This is not democratic issue. This republican issue. This is gumri issue. And we need to come together to fix this. We need to come altogether to fix this city councilman ruining his vote saying that he regrets it and he should vote yes. The mayor of Montgomery Alabama will try do this now by executive order effective tomorrow, GUMRI! He joins US next stay with us. What we've seen post Memorial Day has been a serves unlike many other communities, therefore today I'm announcing Alabi signing an executive order implementing a face cover requirement in Montgomery Alabama. And I'm doing this for one simple reason. After listening to our health experts and warriors, they continue to give us. We're doing this today because it's the right thing to do. Steven read the mayor of Montgomery Alabama bypassing his own city council to Implement Executive Order a citywide mask ordinance. Mary is one of a number of public officials across the country who basically been left to try to deal with this growing pandemic. Alone. As their states pushed forward with reopening plans despite rising cases and. Case of Montgomery, despite full hospitals staffed with what are now exhausted doctors and nurses. Joining us now. Is Montgomery Mayor Steven Reid Mr? Mayor I really appreciate you making time to come back and keep us updated tonight. Thank you so much. Thank you. So. Tell us about your decision to implement this mask requirement in Montgomery. The state obviously doesn't have a mask requirement. Your City Council Montgomery wouldn't vote for one earlier this week although it sounds like. If they took the vote again now, it might pass. But you've made the decision to do this by executive order. Tell us about that decision. The the decision was one that I've going back and forth with over the last couple of months to be honest with you. I. Really Thought this was needed. Some time ago, but I was trying to work with the city council and build a consensus among them to see what was needed, and we could not get that unfortunately and a couple of weeks ago, I was going to bring it on the agenda and I did not have the votes at that time, and I told him if we didn't see the numbers. Flatten. If we did not see a decline in hospitalizations, rates I would be bringing it back again at the next meeting, and that meeting was on Tuesday night, and we had a city councilman who wanted to introduce an ordinance himself, and he brought that ordinance up, and it was not able to pass, but I think when I look back. It's something that I wish I'd done probably about a month ago. And I think that we should push the issue more forcefully then, because unfortunately, this has become a political football. I don't know how I public health emergency. Can become that but I think it has, and of course, nothing has cost us not only. The health of many people are not community, but I think it's also cost us some lives, and that's unfortunate, and so I kind of wish I could have a do over and that we oppressed this more some weeks ago. We've spoken a few times over these past few weeks since you. I sort of sounded the alarm that Montgomery hospitals. Were being taxed that Montgomery's hospitals were at capacity in terms of what they can handle. and. We've seen the hospitals flex and surge space. But are are things getting any better in terms of the the status of the epidemic in the state and in Montgomery specifically, how are your case numbers? Is that curve coming down at all? Has the public alarm in Montgomery about how hard hard how hard you've been hit caused any sort of changes in behavior. That is moving this thing in the right direction yet. I think it is called some people to change their behavior. I think it is certainly brought more awareness to the issue. Unfortunately, we haven't seen that spread through this community enough right now. Seventy percent of new cases of Kobe nineteen black ninety percent of those on ventilators are people that are black as well and so when we think about that, this is not one event here there. This is an issue that is really impacting the black community disproportionately, and I think in part that is because nationally one in six workers on the front lines or black, and we see that a lot here as well. I would say more than one in six. Those people who work in our grocery stores. Pharmacies they're working. In our retail shops. They're working. Public Transit they're having to interface with people who are not wearing masks, maybe unknowingly spreading this virus, and that is unfortunate, because whether or not someone has it or not. We know that they can spread it to someone who is susceptible to it and I think that's driving up the numbers, and so while they've been some movement on. People saying at home and practice in social distancing there has been enough, and that's why I thought that. If the city council was not able to pass it that I would do by executive order, and that's the first time that I've using executive order to issue a mandate such as this and I. Don't like to do that, but I think when you're in the position that we are as mayors. You have to make decisions in the best interest in your community. Even if you legislative body doesn't agree I may not see the way you do. I'm struck tonight by you saying that as as sort of radical decision, this is for you. You haven't used executive orders before you tried to avert it. You tried to some other way, but you still wish you had done it a month ago. You still wish you had done it before. I have to tell. We spoke with the infectious. Disease Chief. A few days ago, and she said that what happened in your city I in Alabama and Montgomery. I is now happening all over Alabama that they're seeing surges and all sorts of cities including hospitals. Really being put through their paces. Just want to ask if you could give one piece of advice to your fellow municipal leaders who are about to start going through what you've been through in Montgomery over these past few weeks, people who are about to start to have it as tough as you've had it. What one piece of advice would you give them? I would tell them to trust their instincts. Look out for their community. Look out for the health of their residents. And make sure that we don't allow consensus building in this time to cloud the issue to make sure that we don't allow politics to cloud the issue of the health and wellness of the people that are counting on us to lead and make decisions, and I think sometimes when you try to do things by committee, like we often do or the local state or federal level it may work, but in this case I think it takes bold leadership, courageous leadership to really make these decisions. On the front side and to really guard against anything that may happen. such as a surge or spike, in cases, because we're trying to bring people along who may never come along, and I think we have to realize is that people want to see as these decisions and people WANNA see us look out for the health and wellness of them and their families, and they'll understand in the long run. Even if things don't surge, they don't see a spike that we were doing things in the best interests of the people in not for any other reason. Wise words and and well put Montgomery Mayor Steven Reid. Thank you so much for joining US tonight. Mr Mayor as always do please keep us surprise, we are. Very focused on what's happening in your city and your state and we're. We're worried about the numbers. Alabama worried about your hospital capacity. We're happy to keep the national focus on this as best we can thank you sir. Always a pleasure. Coming up next the Supreme Court ruling on Daca today's second, High Court ruling this week that has bummed out the president's and surprised a lot of folks more on that ahead. Stay with us. On the steps of the Supreme Court a few months ago. mid-november dreamers and their supporters chanted. Home is here. Home is here. That was the day Supreme Court justices heard arguments in the case about whether the trump administration would be allowed to. Dock Dhaka's the program that allows undocumented immigrants. People brought to the US as children to remain in this country, so the court was deciding whether the trump administration would be allowed to start rounding up and deporting hundreds of thousands of young people most of whom have never known any home other than America. Now that home is here, home is here chant of. Defiance and solidarity. Was the sort of sign of strength in the face of. While a date. That actually otherwise didn't seem to go that well. On the day of those arguments at the time, most court watchers thought the arguments had gone poorly for the dreamers. These were the headlines that day Supreme Court appears ready to let trump and a DACA supreme court may side with trump on dreamers. Supreme Court leans toward trump. That's what people thought hearing the arguments back in November, which is why today it was a legit surprise. When the Supreme Court handed down, its opinion handed down its ruling, and they ruled against the trump administration Dhaka will remain intact. The dreamers can stay at least for now. That said in what is becoming kind of a signature move chief justice John Roberts his majority opinion doesn't firmly settle the issue. The opinion declines to take a position on the legality of Dhaka. Dhaka at all Roberts, opinion just says that the trump administration did a bad job when they tried to repeal Daca, and that's why their actions were unconstitutional because they were such a freaking legal mess. It's not the first time president. Trump has lost a supreme court case this way Reuter, summed up the situation in this tidy headline today quote trump administration's sloppy work has led to Supreme Court losses. Joining us now is slate dot com senior editor Golly Olympic to help us make sense of. It is great to lay eyes on you. Thank you for making time to be here tonight. To be here. I. Let me ask you what I screwed up in explaining that, and if it was fair to describe today's ruling, as surprise given what people thought of the arguments back in November. You didn't screw up. I I do think it's important at the court didn't get to the constitutional question. The court expressly set aside the equal protection question whether there was racial animus that was one of the things they could have decided. John Roberts struck pans said. We're not even going to mind that here. Moreover, there wasn't even plausible inference that this was done for racial reasons that hurts dreamers a little bit because it would have been a huge win to get a constitutional. Constitutional decision. Saying this was done for racial biased reasons. That's it everything else. He said was correct and I. Think this looks a lot to me like last year census case where it was trump's to win shoddy lawyering, bad failure to show your work and lots of bidding seem to have gotten under the chief justice's skin, and you sort of come away, saying this is the second time where the chief justice is just saying. Why can't just lie a little better? While in terms of that baying the deficiency that the chief justice homed in on as you say avoiding the constitutional issues with Dhaka directly. Does that mean that there is a fix that? The administration could gin up relatively quickly to? Address, Roberts's concerns, and put the repeal of Dhaka back into effect is. Would this be relatively easy for them to get right now? Given what he said about how they got it wrong. I think two answers Rachel I think the first is absolutely in fact John. Roberts more or less gives a roadmap. He says if I were despite this back to the s and they were to do these things I would have no problem under the Administrative Procedures Act. It's just that those things were done. And that is a huge worry for dreamers, because it's a signal bat, do it correctly next time, and he might be more receptive on the political question. Do I think he's? He's really going to Donald Trump is gonna say I'm going to prioritize doing this again. In an election year when it is so unpopular, part of the reason Rachel that the trump administration got into trouble with no one wanted to own. This congress didn't want to on it. The White House didn't want to own it king. They were hoping that the Supreme Court would do away with Dhaka so asking trump to own it when it's wildly unpopular in an election year where he's thinking. It's a political question. I. Don't think it's smart. Is there something else? That's going to happen before the end of the term that's going to bring this week of two relatively sort of progressive opinions crashing down on us like a reverse hangover. Is this in terms of what else we're going to hear from the court? Are you expecting any doom and gloom between here and the end of the term? We have so many big cases. We have the stateless electors case. We have the trump financial document case whether or not there can be oversight in of course June medical, the huge abortion case, so there's so much to comment I think there was a little bit of feeling after both title seven in Dhaka this week. Like the shoes gonNA drop in. It's going to drop hard on our heads, but maybe we just have a new John Roberts who knows he's going to be on board for three more decades in doesn't wanNA fiddle with trumpism anymore I don't know I. Wish I knew. While, you'll be the first one figures it out. certainly before I do slate senior editor Dalia Lithuania. It is great to see you. Thank you so much for being here tonight. Thanks Rachel. All, right, we'll be right back. Stay with us. I mentioned at the top of the show that president trump has been having A. Bad Week Tonight Fox. News has just released its latest head to head general election poll for the presidential election in November, you might remember the last Fox general election poll made the president flip out in a most untoward manner that last Fox poll that so upset. The president, which was late last month had the president down eight points versus Joe Biden Nationally. Q. The president's rage again. Because Fox's latest poll just out tonight shows the president losing to Joe Biden Nationally not by eight points, but by twelve points. Among voters nationwide. And again it's a Fox poll, so here comes the very special breed of trump versus Fox news meltdown. You can get your marshmallows and sticks at the door. That does tonight. We'll see you again tomorrow. The meadow show weeknights at nine eastern. ON MSNBC. Willie geist here on this week's episode of The Sunday sit down podcast I get together with legendary actor. Samuel L. Jackson to talk about his prolific career in Hollywood, and bringing shaft back to theaters. You can get it now for free wherever you download your podcasts.

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