20 Episode results for "World Wildlife"

A pollution source that deserves more attention

Climate Connections

01:30 min | 1 year ago

A pollution source that deserves more attention

"I'm doctor. Anthony License and this is climate connections from boiling crude oil to molding ticking melting steel industrial processes often require heat sometimes temperatures that exceed five hundred degrees. Fahrenheit producing that heat is amazing higher heat industrial processes is more challenging there are clean options such as advanced solar collectors for some processes but these technologies are often source of carbon pollution because it usually comes from burning fossil fuels and we haven't done very much yet to address that large bucket of emissions marty the large companies committed to reducing heating related emissions to warm buildings companies may be able to transition to renewable electricity but transforming time to transform the markets and scale up new solutions we have to start now in order to have a chance to solve the climate challenge Climate connections is produced by the Yale Center for mental communication learn more at Yale connections dot org offensive so the large energy buyers in the collaborative aimed at drive down costs by coordinating their investments. Spitzer says the work is urgent because it will take time it's our is senior director of climate and renewable energy with the World Wildlife Fund he helps facilitate a coalition called the renewable thermo collaborative it includes.

senior director Yale Center Anthony License Spitzer World Wildlife Fund five hundred degrees
Sustainable Investing 3: Bob Litterman  Pricing Climate Risk (Capital Allocators, EP.141)

Capital Allocators

54:05 min | 4 months ago

Sustainable Investing 3: Bob Litterman Pricing Climate Risk (Capital Allocators, EP.141)

"My special things go out to Wellington Management for sponsoring this miniseries sustainable investing the next frontier. Wellington management serves as asset manager and trusted adviser to clients representing more than one trillion dollars in assets worldwide. Bonington is explored long sustainability issues since the nineteen seventies and continues this practice today through internal research engagement and its innovative climate research initiative with top ranked think, tank woods hole research center. BURLINGTON's investor strive to assess investments holistically through the triangulation of insights across equity, fixed, income and yes G. Research firm, sustainable investing practice also features market, leading impact, stewardship and climate capabilities. Boone. Hello I'm Ted Saudis and this is capital letters. This show is an open exploration of the people and process behind capital allocation through conversations with leaders in the money game. We learn how these holders of the keys to the kingdom allocate their time and their capital. You can keep up to date by visiting Capitol Allocators PODCASTS DOT COM. January James Aitken told me it doesn't matter what you think about G. The clamor will only increase fun plus will accelerate, and we need to set our cynicism aside and be mindful of the consequences is going to be with us for a long time to come. Ever since I've grown increasingly curious about the megatrend of sustainable investing climate change dominated the discussion at Davos few weeks after and social issues about the treatment of workers are front and center since the onset of nineteen. This miniseries sustainable investing the next frontier is my effort to learn alongside you through conversations with serious passionate practitioners in the field. For the next month you'll hear conversations twice a week in familiar style and format all focused on this important investment area. Mike Guest on today's show is Bob Liderman founding partner and chairman of the risk committee at. Capital. Park boasts he spent twenty three years at Goldman Sachs where his roles included heading the firm, wide risk function and heading the quantitative investment. Strategies Group at G. Sam. Bob was one of the original inductees into risk magazines. Risk Management Hall of fame and is well known for Co developing the Black Letterman global asset allocation model with the late Fisher black. After leaving Goldman in two thousand, nine, Bob became fascinated by the risk management problem posed by climate change, and that is the focus of this third episode in sustainable investing the next frontier. Our conversation covers Bob's background in quantitative research, applying risk management principles to address climate change modeling, the price of carbon emissions, and concluding that we must slam on the brakes immediately to address global warming. We then turned to his work on policy to implement his conviction and his activity in the public markets across the World Wildlife Fund stranded asset swap and his research at Cappos to play a rapid adoption theme from the Lens of a quantitative investor. I recently got involved with the Alliance for decision, Education and educational nonprofit dedicated to the belief that better decisions lead to better lives and a better society. The Alliance is building a National Movement to ensure decision. Education is part of every middle and high school students learning experience I, wish I had learned the science of decision making back then, and I'm keen to spread the word and do my part so that my kids and yours learn to make better decisions throughout their lives to learn more and join me in this movement. Visit Alliance for Decision Education. Dot Org. That's Alliance for Decision Education Dot work. Please enjoy my conversation with Bob Letterman. Bob Great to see you to see dead well. Why don't we start with your background and take me through to? How you ended up going from Goldman to what we're going to talk about today. Sure I'm GONNA, Calmest and my early career taught at Mit, and then I went to the Federal Reserve Bank was an economist. There I thought that was going to be my career, but this is in the mid eighties. One day I got a call from a headhunter I didn't even know what ahead hundred was the next thing I knew I was a young coins on Wall Street. In the early days of the engineering and cash, I was like a kidney candy store. There were so many interesting problems. What was that initial call like when you thought you were on your career path, and now you're heading to. To Wall Street all the sudden, actually, it was Kinda. Funny now that you ask because the first call I had no crew I didn't know what hit hundred was, and it turned out. It was a head hunter who was looking or tweet economist, and as she said you know any Major Wall Street firm and I was a young communist I wasn't qualified to be like the economists that have made your firm, but someone thought I was, and I said well. You know it would take six figures. You know I was not making six figures were time, but what I didn't realize is that was a multiple seven figure job. I clearly indicated that had no idea what you know this was. Back permit hunter, but then later I got another call, and that time it was more o'clock job and I ended up going to Goldman Sachs and started in fixed income research building models there, and then early on Goldman asked me to get involved and risk management, which was kind of a new area, and they asked me to be Everest Management, which was Arthur condition and did that for four years, and then they asked me to move asset management, so I did that and ended up heading the proof and asset management and I was very pleased to do that for about. About ten years. I thought I was going to retire. Some of the folks that I was working with saving open up their own hedge fund instead of retiring I, joined them. That's Kepler capital, but the last ten years as I've been at kept her really been very focused on climate risk, and joined the number of words were while unwisdom, first environmental for I just kept going and my interest in risk management led me to get interested in climate risk in particular, and then what I found is that there are a lot of parallels between the way we think about manage. Risk and the way we should be thinking about managing climate risk. But why don't we dive in there? What were the key lessons in risk management that? When you somehow made that shift, you thought applied well to climate risk. The first thing you know when you're thinking about risk and return on Wall Street, and you're always balancing those building portfolios of stocks. On the credit loans whatever it is, we think about are we getting paid appropriately for the retaking and that that's one of the key lessons at at Goldman. We made a lot of money from taking risks, and when they asked me to be at risk management. It wasn't because Goldman Sachs wanted to reduce its risk. They wanted to make more money from the risks that they were dating. And if we were taking risks that we weren't getting day for, we should identify those and hedge them. Get rid of that, so similarly are at the heart of. It is the fact that we're not pricing risk appropriately. That's one mess now. Another lesson that's very clear is that you have to think about worst-case scenarios or in the financial community now we don't really talk about worst case so much because that's in many contexts that's not defined. I remember early on Goldman asked me to think about how much we lose in our swap portfolio. Well, there's no upper bound. There's really no number I can't say we'RE NOT GONNA. Lose more than X. Because. then. You can, so we markets. We usually talk about extreme, but possible scenarios, and that's a good way of thinking about climate risk. What are the extreme possible scenario, but more generally have to think about that full distribution of outcomes? Typically we don't. It's very scary in Clermont when you think about worst cases that there. And it's not alarmist. That's just what risk management is avow, and then a third lesson that I think is really key, is that time is not on our side and way I. Think of out is that? If you have enough time, you can solve virtually any risk management problem. It's when we run out of time. One of my colleagues the Golden I was with him when we were talking. Talking to a hedge fund group and he, he used a phrase that I found very enlightening. He said you know you get time compression, and that's when you run out of time. Solve a problem and indeed I've seen that I've experienced that grow when I headed our group in the whole quant space melted down. We thought we would have months to get out of positions and all of sudden. As ours was a realization, there's nothing we can do here. And so the urgency of the climate crisis is really because it is risk management problem and we don't know how much time we've got, and if we don't get started in time, we're not going to be able to solve problems, so that's another one and the last one that I would focus on which is really key to. Is that risk at an often economists make this distinction between risk. Risk and uncertainty and when you make that distinction, we make it a lot in the financial community, risks are things that we can measure like volatility your value at risk. We report on them their metrics, but what we manage is something much more uncertain. The models that we use any metric like risked risked metric comes from a model, and it makes her assumptions about how the past will be guide to the future that those miles are always inadequate. approximations and real world is always much more complicated. Don't really trust their models, and similarly with respect to climate or actually much more with respect to climate, because at least in our models, we can say well. We've got a ten year history here. Daily moves in X. Y. Z. so I have a distribution in climate. We're doing this experiment first time. We don't have a distribution to look at so there is tremendous unser. And I got kind of stuck into this climate thing because at what we have to do, it's very obvious we have to price the risk and I remember. One of my colleagues thanked to me well, Bob. You know that's brilliant insight for an economist, but no one has a clue where to price the risk. Wave at can't eat drew I Thomas I queried the literature year gotta be someone who's thought about the seriously there must be. We must have a clue so i. kind of got sucked into that literature, and eventually ended up building out. I wasn't happy with the models that were out there, they they didn't use the appropriate. I would say discounting something. That's the central a Wall Street you don't get to pick a discount rate. You have to match it to the discount rates to see in the market. And similarly I mean there's there's a Lotta issue with respect to pricing climate risk, but the bottom line is that. Was Actually Kinda right? These models there so primitive, and we have so little data were extrapolating fifty or one hundred years into future. We all know what the technology is going to be. We don't know the fragility of the environment is going to be. There's these not only in the areas of science knows a lot and we know that we're doing an experiment that is very dangerous, but we don't know that for distribution of outcomes, and so when we come up with an answer to the question. WHERE SHOULD WE BE PRICING RISK? Well it's risk number, but the uncertainty around that is so large, and what I found when I looked into this was that the number that came out of the model it was hard to get it down below a hundred dollars time, and now that the range of uncertainty is much wider than that such as me the UN a few years ago had a report, and they haven't the table about the limitations of economic models of climate risks and they they listed a whole bunch of limitations, and at the in the end. They said the bottom line is you? You can get any number. You want anywhere from two dollars ton two hundred dollars a time though I'm in the middle of that range, but it's still a big range and the bottom line is. What does it mean to say? You have to worry about the uncertainty. React to manage the uncertainty. It is that you have to be cautious. You can't take your risk number seriously, and so to be cautious means you have to err on the side of caution. It means a higher number in this context. You have to price emissions at a level where you're very. that. You'RE GONNA. Solve a problem and avoid a total catastrophe here. We're talking about existential risk land, so we should be very cautious and that. Kinda got me very passionate about the soccer. As you can imagine when I wrote that, so let's breakdown sort of what this model is. You mentioned that we're pricing the cost of emissions or effectively the extra nationality of emissions. What are the factors just at a basic level that go into the model? It's pretty straightforward. Straightforward to it's you have admissions. Emissions create warming and the also create other problems. Such is the certification, the ocean, and so I'm, and it has impact on everything from hell to national security wave. You know the whole thing, so you got all these damages, and there's certainly a lot of uncertainties about the Stanford. Those damages, the cost of those damages and in our model, and we put all of that into what we call the fragility of the environment. And then you convert that to a distribution of monetary damages that are occurring at different points in the future, depending on the level of the missions, so there's a whole bunch of cracks. that. We use their data from science. So far, talk kind of science, but then you have to assume a cost her that says are if I create an incentive is level. How much am I going to reduce emission the basically mapping between where you price emissions and The price of emissions as being a kind of a shorthand for all the different policies that you might use might be regulation. Somebody the pricing. Missions in coal and oil and natural gas and so on, but how harder we're gonNA push to reduce emissions and kind summarize that in a price, and then we may have different levels of that price to different degrees of emissions reduction, and we say all right. Let's follow an optimal policy from this point on, or what is that obviously would wife and so we look at different alternative policies. We compute damages. We do a discounted present value of all those damages, and we say you know what's the optimal policy and in our context, one of the important things is that we think about the revelation of uncertainty over time, so we don't know. Know. What the Jeremy Planet is right now could be very robust could be very fragile today we have to plan our policy in a way that prepares this or worse case, which is very fragile environment, so those are the important inputs, and then you make assumptions about the different things, and you can look at your sensitivity, different functions, and that Kinda how you perceive, and so you work through these assumptions you've got a range of possible outcomes, which we know is wide. What does the data showing you today? Well? How the couple of things that showing number one? We should do what I call. Slam on the brakes. Okay, the usual approach. Say The Usual Pike's modeling which don't take into account zoom that you should start at a relatively low price permissions day or whenever you start a, but it should have started years ago, but then that price rises over time as you get closer to win, these damages are coming and assume that you know when those damages are coming. Exactly it's not a distribution of outcomes, so you don't worry a lot about getting prepared for the worst case, 'cause you you know at the cases are anyway so one of the things is that rather than having a slow increase in price which I kind of sometimes calling on the break scenario because you're one operator. Here is the price on emissions and so. That's your control. How hard you press on her reality today the incentives globally are very strong to support the production and consumption of fossil fuel, so kind of like and say, let's like having your put on the gas pedal. Now there are incentives to go the other way, and when you add them all up, the bottom line is something close to zero today, so you've got. Got Incentives going against. You've got tennis doing the right direction. The net incentive globally is posted zero and the question is where should it be well instead of a slow increase overtime? The reality is in order to take the risk into account. We should be quickly immediately slamming on the brakes and I say immediately, and this is kind of interesting part of our analysis as As we can also ask the question what happens if we delay that practicing and the answer is well. You can't make up for lost time. Your maximum temperatures going to be higher. You'RE GONNA have to slam the brakes harder and try and reduce emissions quicker, but at the end of the day you're not gonna be able to reduce it more quickly and so you're going. Going to get to a higher open, the temperature and the scary thing is how quickly that maximum temperature is rising. We're at a one degrees. SEE ABOVE DISTORT L-, average temperature today, and for every three years we delay pricing emissions, the maximum temperature the best case let's say the optimal solution is another tenth of a degree onto that expected maximum temperature, and so we're at. One point seven is about where we're at best case you don't know for sure obviously, but in other we had locally strong incentive to reduce emissions that we put on immediately today, and obviously that's not going to happen, but that's kind of the s case you're going to get somewhere between one and a half and two degrees at your maximum. Temperature depends a lot on things we don't know. How good is the? The technology, going to be I. WE'RE GONNA put on Geo Engineering. How quickly can we pull out of the atmosphere? When that becomes economical and so on so those are a lot of uncertainties, but bottom line is that we can expect that temperature to get above two degrees if we don't act very soon in the next decade and two degrees, C is according to the IPC sears say the latest science is just. Just incredibly dangerous that just as one example I like the quote. The IDC report on the impact of one and a half degrees versus two degrees, one and a half degrees. They said we'RE GONNA lose seventy ninety percent of the coral reefs globally. That's already baked into the cake. We're already on a path that will take above that and a two degrees seeing that amount of coral reefs that will be lost as. As over ninety nine percent were basically going to kill off for reefs globally, and that's a decade away. Something like that I mean me. This is just a huge crisis, and it's sad, because had we address this twenty years ago wouldn't have been that costly. We could have had a very smooth transition and the maximum temperature would be somewhere around where we are today, which is say not great, but why catastrophic? and. We have this huge risk and it's rolling very quickly. In this period of time of this global pandemic with Covid nineteen and part of what you're describing this exponential change over time and the need to start earlier I, think is more tangible now to people because of what's happened with this pandemic. Is there any movement that you're seeing yet in the government or the powers that be that need to make these changes to recognize the parallels, those situations and act as a result I have evidence to point to had, but I think it's very likely that when we get through this Kobe crisis, we're GONNA. See the parallels. They're both global risk management crises in both cases there urgent, and in both cases were reacting to slowly, and what we've seen Govan is the cost of acting too slowly, particularly in this country, relative to some of the other countries that acted quickly and that much better outcomes so far, but we're also seeing a lesson about the. The collective action, the importance of collective action, none of us can address these on our own. We have to work together. We're all in this together. That's trooper climate as well as Ovid, and I just hope and expect that there will be a pendulum swing away from this sort of crazy populist, ignoring science for recognition of the reality of what science tells us and the need to take it to heart when we come up with government policies, so I'm optimistic that we are going to slam on this. Brave in create the appropriate incentive to reduce emissions that will hopefully allow us to a joint catastrophic climate outcomes, and how that mechanism playthrough caloric. You're saying about you know I think. The US is by far the stumbling block in terms of global coordination today. You're in China and the rest of the world. Frankly are ready to move and are waiting for the US. Waiting but reality is that we should all be moving together in a coordinated fashion when I talk that an appropriate insanity to reduce emissions. Of course, I mean globally harmonized, and until the US starts moving ahead, you can't expect other countries to move ahead with a strong response on their own, and it's got to be coordinated, so I'm looking for the US to come to its senses that we should take seriously, and therefore I would hope to see a carbon tax passed by Congress sometime next year, and you mentioned at the onset that you're involved in some of the organizations trying to influence policy. What's that work? I've been doing a lot of different things. A lot of organizations earth vice it on the board of climate. Leadership Council, which is the sponsor of the Baker scholtz carbon dividend approach. That's probably the leading US effort to price missions right now is a bipartisan effort. It's got support from basically the entire corporate sector all virtually all the economists in this country, a lot of the environmental communities. I like W., but we've got support from everyone from Exxon Mobil to the World Wildlife, fund and everyone in between so that's pretty broad support now. I'm also the chair. Chair of the CFCC, the Commodity Futures Trading Commission climate related. Market Research Committee which is a group of thirty five leaders of the financial markets, including banks insurance companies. The NGOs academics and other interested parties were all working right now to create a report for the PC. It's GonNa provide hopefully a kind of road map for Nancy community on other deal with climate, and of course one of our recommendations is that we create appropriate incentives to reduce mission. Everyone agrees on that I. Don't know how it can't be that. It's gotTa be I'm. Done soon and everyone seems to agree on that. That's the key question. If you have a consortium that can range from the world. Wildlife Fund to Exxon. What is the obstacle and getting something done whereas Republicans in the Senate? Let's be perfectly honest. I. Think that's changing quick. Let's put a one of the senator said I often talk to Sheldon Whitehouse says what we need is a jailbreak. Because these Republicans in the Senate they all know better. Better by the way they all know, it's real. They admit it now. They all. They've changed their talking points. People have recognize that, but they say yeah, it's real. Yes, it's caused by human behavior and what we need is innovation well. Okay, but you know if you WANNA. Get Innovation. You need incentives. I always pound on incentives. You know because what are sense there anything that changes behavior while we've got to change behavior. We've gotTA change. and. You know they all get so it's a question of when is the opportunity literally for them to come out and say yeah, yeah, we gotta be this and I. Hope it happens to. It's just so sad when you take this from the policy level to the financial markets. Where have you seen investors? Taking action in and around your thought processes, okay well investors, and let's just talk about financial markets because I've been in them for decades, they are incredibly efficient at making money for investors and acid owners rod to preneurs people are motivated to make money, and so they allocate capital in the direction of the incentives that they face and to this day we have the wrong incentives. Okay, so capital naturally flows in the wrong direction and people in the financial markets have tried their hardest the come up with ways to redirect capital in the right wing. Green Bonds Okay and in your another focusing on a green taxonomy well okay, but guess what incentives go the wrong. Wrong way and so it's kind of like trying to push water up. You know doesn't work very well. You give the incentives right yet. Either way and watch the capital flow. There are different ways to set up incentives so in your currencies, they have taxonomy. They define certain types of investments in green others Brown and then they create for instance tax incentives, other types of incentives for investors to invest in green investments. Well guess what you get from that you get a lot. Read investments, but you don't necessarily get a lot of emissions reductions. What are the paths that you could say? Clients of campus or people that you've seen in? The markets are taking to try to address this. When they're not pricing these in the right way. Kept host like other businesses in the business of making money so what we are looking at it kept, and what a lot of investors are looking at is okay. There is going to be inevitable. There's GonNa be a policy. Response I can't tell you. When or how is it going to be a carbon? Taxes are GONNA be cap and trade is going to be a green taxonomy. What is it GonNa be, but at the end of the? The day we know that Mandy has to quickly reduce its emissions, and so there's going to be a rapid transition to a low-carbon economy. What we're all facing in the future is transition risk as we implement those policies to move to a low-carbon economy and the physical risks from climate change, and so as an investor what I WANNA be. I WanNa talk my portfolio a direction that it's going to do better in the context of a rapid. Rapid transitions, low-carbon economy, and to avoid the perils of the climate change in terms of the physical impacts, and so there's a lot of analysis that has to go into that, but you're looking for. What are you going to be the stranded assets? I don't want those in my portfolio so as an example I. Don't WanNa own coal mines. We're not gonNA need coal mines. There's plenty of oil. You know. There's plenty of oil out there what? What we don't have is the place emissions, and so I have to think about okay, which companies which assets are going to be impacted the most by this rapid transition, and it really has impacts throughout the economy, and then in addition how am I going to Roy at assets like PG was impacted by you know the physical risk, the wildfires and floods and hurricane, stronger winds, and and so on, and so there's assets that are risk remote. And then we're going to see who knows, but there could be these disease impact and other types of health impacts, et Cetera et Cetera, and so as an investor got into those, and what are the medium tax on valuations, and that's how I got to adjust my portfolio so when you start looking through the stranded assets might be. Easier to identify at you can easily point to Kohl's starting point and then maybe. Exco those from portfolio. How do you work it? Through sectors where the impact of some of the stranded assets could work both ways, even within and gas, there's going to be winners and losers, but certainly in other areas, and it's not always obvious, so you save yourself I, think electric vehicles are GonNa be a dominant source of transportation ten twenty years from now, but who would be the winners in that space is significant in new entrant, so tesla but. Valuation. They're realistic so right and then is, it can be an entrenched carmakers you know. Should I be betting on older or Toyota at the you know a lot of that? It's more like fundamental analysis than quack analysis. I'm quant, but once typically say were in the past. I'M GONNA project into the future. We've never gone through a rapid transition to a low-carbon economy. I can't really look at what's were in the past, so I have to do some fundamental analysis in oil and gas I've got to think about okay if we're in a world where there's a lot lower demand for oil, the first order implication. Implication is the price of oil is going to be lower and I. think that's true. I think we're in for you. Know decades low oil prices, and then you ask yourself. That's not going to be good for the oil industry, but it certainly would be much worse for accompanied that specializes in extracting expensive sources royer than Saudi Aramco which has a huge source of cheap oil, so they're all going to be negatively impacted, but some much worse than others, and then the question is what's already built into prices in my career I pounded the table on the fact that in most contexts, the market's pretty darn efficient. And so if I'm making an argument that stranded assets are overvalued. I have to be making an argument that I know better than others about their valuation and really Myron I mean is that the transition to low-carbon economy is going to be faster than what's built into market expectation and I think that's true, but to be honest so far I've been kinda wrong. We have slammed on the brakes. Are Port is around the accelerator and we're going the wrong direction other than the code with. Ovid the whole nother issue, but the bigger picture in the long run we haven't yet gotten. As. You start to think about market pricing emissions more efficiently. What are the different ways you could? Participate in that in the market, though there's a lot of different ways, and it's not so obvious as you suggested the. Easiest thing to talk about are things like coal and oil. If we're moving rapidly to a low-carbon economy, that's not going to be good for those industries in general, and then within other industries. You have transportation we talked about. You're looking for the companies that are going to be impacted by those, but it's not so obvious. If it was obvious, everyone would already be doing, and I guess some people and so far have been correct that we're not gonNA slam on. The brakes were just gonNA. Keep moving in the wrong direction until it's too late is a pretty depressing. Get it right. I hope I. think that once we do create those incentives economist. I know how powerful incentives are you're going to have every entrepreneur every business, every investor all moving in the same direction, responding to those incentives, and I think we will quickly be able to reduce emission now i. think we're also going to have to do geo engineering to reduce the existing co two in the atmosphere so one way to think about. How bad this problem is recognized. We're probably going to have to full most of the C O. Two that we're putting into the atmosphere who today back out? That's an expensive proposition. That's a huge liability for the next generation, and the sooner we get started on that 'cause the. Cheaper not to put it in than it is to put it in, and then put out so now. You've been involved with the world. Wildlife Fund and I'm curious with an organization like that. That has some assets to manage. How do they think about it today? So I'm glad you asked that question. I've been jeering the investment committee WWF while actually no longer Cherif I was cheering it back in two, thousand, fourteen, or and we we had. Had A discussion about how should we be -sition our portfolio, so there were a number of trustees. You thought we should die. That's and we talk about divestment and look through our portfolio, and said what would we divest up? What are stranded assets? And they were they were tying as you might imagine. We didn't have a lot of coal win in oil. We had a little bit here and there through external managers and in private equity or Hedge funds in our advisers told us it's can be very expensive for you to get rid of every last piece of that. You've got less than one percent. It's all over the place entitled pieces in your managers, your part of funds that will make decisions, so you can have to get out of those funds. You may have to sell his private equity. You'RE GONNA. Take a twenty percent here. It's less than one percent. Just don't worry about it, and we said No. You know we're the World Wildlife Fund. We won our portfolio to reflect our mission. Mission, we don't. WanNa be supporting whose activities outputs out here. They came up with a very innovative solution, which was what we call a stranded asset to a return, Soi basically took all those assets that had been identified and said we're going to sell the return on those assets and receive a return on a broad portfolio, the mark, and in doing so we basically adjusted our portfolio in a very inexpensive way, so that we no longer have the economic exposure to those stranded assets. What we didn't realize was how well that stranded acid would perform that? Swap, I mean I thought these assets are probably gonNA underperform I often get the question who would take the other side of that bet the reality is of course more than one investment bank would be happy to take that because they get paid a fee, and then what they do is they offset the risk in the market, so in effect they're executing on your behalf, but I love the swap. Because it said it's just back, and you can watch that and I do watch over time, and it's performed great. It's up over one hundred thirty percent now since we put it on and seven years ago so it. It reflects what is widely known which is that fossil-fuel sector has dramatically underperformed the market for a long time now, and it seems to be accelerating so I kinda like it from that perspective is easy to implement for us. We swap for retail investor. You don't go to a broker in say put on swap that requires a brokerage account, and all kinds of agreements is more institutional type of approach, but an individual can buy and sell ats pretty easily, and there are not apps that represent exposure to coal or exposure to oil and gas and exposure to the market, so it's relatively easy to put this this on. Now more sophisticated about it certainly, but rather simple word easier and when you WANNA get more sophisticated about it I know you're kind of in the process of thinking about how to implement some of these strategies to more granular level. So why don't you walk through kind of how you thought about the research behind that and what you're looking to do with it sure well. We started years ago. Actually W looking at research that was put out by third parties for instance, a group in UK call carbon tracker has been a lot of good work, saying okay, which of the companies are most exposed this in which? And now we're working with other data providers and looking at different sectors. So as I mentioned you look at gas one way to release another way materials transportation at Cetera a quant. We often factors so emissions were instances can be one factor within the utility sector. For instance you know their utilities. They have more carbon dioxide emissions per unit of energy than others and that's. That's one factor, but then you have other factors for instance, Cami, -bility pass on the cost of reducing those emissions who race or not some have more freedom to do that another so summer more exposed, and you look at those different factors. You're going to be different in different industries, and as I say, it's a little bit like fundamental analysis and this narrative looking at. Our company do in a rapid transition scenario relative that company. How do you try to maximize the impact? You can have personally across your activities. My personal background with. Management at Goldman Sachs, so that's where I have expertise. This is a risk management problem, and so I just try and speak out wherever I can. Places like this and say look. This is not that difficult to risk management problem. We're not pricing the wrist. That's the fundamental problem we've got. Everyone who looks into this problem seriously reaches the same conclusion is not a lot of disagreement now there are a lot of people whose they were never going to get there, and so let's do this. Let's do that was plant trees? Let's stop driving. I'm not against those kinds of things, but it's just they don't operate the same scale as providing the collective incentives that allow everyone to move in the right direction. Direction by the way you don't even have to try on the one hand if I tried to reduce my carbon footprint today when it's not built into prices, then I have to figure out how big is the footprint of amber versus chicken nuggets? You know when I make a decision and it's just unrealistic I. Don't have that information. Should I make a phone call or should I drive through this needing, should i. Too many decisions you can't do it. I don't even have the information the ability of the prices now. I don't even worry about I. Just worry about how do I. Allocate Resources and I see the prices, and I make those decisions, and they happen to be the right in saving. Probably hand, speak disparity in developed market economies who have been using carbon and a lot of the emerging countries where it seemed like the USA fuels is kind of an early step as they grow their economies and move from relatively poor nations to lower middle class to middle class. How how does the energy use required by those countries to work their way up the economic trajectory? Align with the desires of say a US. There's two important things to say their number one is that in many contexts? Renewable energy is now the cheapest. Of New Energy when you're building out solar and win, and so it's very natural that developing countries will be putting in a sustainable infrastructure now the other thing is that we really have to separate two different issues. One issue is what are the right incentives to reduce emissions, and that should be globally harmonized. It's the Co. two emitted in India in terms of its impact on climate change than co doing admitted in the US, and so we should have those same incentives to reduce emissions everywhere in the world, the other problem is inequality and health, equity and all. All those you know, we should be transferring knowledge and income or wealth to those developing countries. Helping Development is fine, and we should do the ads in terms of as I say you know transgressive, well transfers of knowledge freelancers of food or housing, or whatever, but not by subsidizing pollution. That's not the right way to help those countries, so we just have to separate those recognize. They're two different problems, and the timescale is also very different. We have to slam the brakes now with respect to climate, and that's by pricing missions globally, and we also have to. To address income inequality, and all those other disparities across our country's versus developed world and that's GonNa. Take a long time. The gotTa separate to issue as you've gotten more and more passionate about this I know that you're thinking about her. On the cusp of investing some capital alongside some of these beliefs. What is that GONNA look? We don't have a product right now, but we're working undeveloped in a product. We'll as ice. They do well in the context of Iraq transition to low-carbon economy, and so we're working with actually. We're getting pretty close to launching it. It and we're working with some seed investors trying to figure out exactly what should that look like? We dented adage products that are market neutral, and we think that that makes sense in this context as well and so it's going to be long insure it'll be across multiple sectors and do all the research that I was talking about before you try and figure out how to do it. Yeah, there's there's some interesting issues if we are going to try to benefit from the valuations in also fuels. DO WE WANNA be exposed to the fluctuations in oil prices? Today is going to be a lot of fluctuation in oil That's going to create volatility in the short run. We hedge that or we could just leave it as an exposure, so you know those are the kinds of issues that were looking at what are some of the more subtle complex issues as you look at different industries of how to incorporate this thesis of that transition a low-carbon. Each industry is different and so when you think about some of the risks I. Dunno insurance companies. You have to ask yourself. Are they exposed or is an opportunity? You know maybe if they're see it coming and I think they all see it coming. I can't imagine they don't see common. There's also issues though about through the regulators. Allow them to build the end you. You know in California. Okay? Wow, wildfire risk is wrong exponentially. If you're an insurer of you have to provide you know fire insurance you able to pull back. Does the insurance regular w the after making affordable, and does that make an risk, or are you selling a lot more fire insurance because everyone needs it, and you can Jack Up. The price announced a profit opportunity. There's a lot of subtleties. Go into figuring out what's going to be the impact on evaluation now? What are some of the other examples? So we talked about insurance. We talked about oil and gas. Utilities, autos. It's a question of you know where the price today versus what kind of market share they gonNA get. Do they have a an advantage that's going to be permanent particular company, or are they at risk? Because you know someone's GonNa, come in, and what are their supply? Chains clank where they going to be able to sell. A lot of these questions are similar to the types of questions. You address all the time in in investing, and it's just a particular scenario you're thinking about which is one pretty complicated. What's going to be the policy? Is it going to be a carbon tax, or is it going to be regulation, and if so, what kind of regulation you know? What are investors betting on? What's already better than the priced? There are other things that you can do if you've got a measure. market expectations of emissions pricing that you can track over time, and we don't really have a good measure, but you can. conceptually you can think of trying to measure that embedded in the presence of things you've already identified are exposed. You can look at Hauer coal companies behaving our world companies, behaving all the things that think are going to be impacted by investor expectations of policy power they moving, and then I can look at another company. XYZ In a different sector and say what is its exposure to this factor? That's kind of what we often do as quads right so we. We can try and estimate call Beta. Earn exposure to this factor that is normally measured anyway, and then I can use that to identify IRA, here's a company has a positive exposure. Here's one that has a negative exposure at least estimated over the recent area. Do you think about investing in this way as a way to drive efficiency for the betterment of the Environment Future Generations, or is this just? Hey, this is a great commercial way for us to. Implement on a thesis. It's more the latter I mean I think that the key here is to create those appropriate senators, and that's what I'm focused on, but as an investor I happen to be watching this space especially since we're allowed fund put on swap on Vk six and a half years ago, and I've been saying to myself. You know this is an opportunity i. tell you the Truth About. A year after we put that swap on a wwf in my wife said to me. Why aren't we doing that? You know it was up forty percent already I would. You know you got a point there, so we did it personally and I think partners had cappos were watching this as well and changing the same conclusion. Why aren't we doing that for? Our client wasn't the most natural ring for. Investment firm to do our main product is, you might say the quantity provisions, and we tend to be in and out of positions in a matter of days or weeks. We're we're not high frequency, but we're relatively short term investors so to take a position that you know there's going to be a rapid transition to a low-carbon economy. That's a little longer term than we usually ORCAS. If we look a few years out and this climate emissions, our climate risk becomes a factor in the same way, quality and capitalization and yield have been factors. What do you think that factor looks like well? I think that factor is evolving over time, and it's evolving because obviously the market expectations are involved as well so everything's priced in. In that context, it's not really a factor because you know acid surprised appropriately, so I think it's always the new evolution and to me. The big opportunity here now is the recognition that the response is not wanting to be a slow increase in concern about an action on climate. We haven't taken appropriate action yet, and we're going to have to. And when that happens, it's going to be more of a phase change than a slow ever, and so once that face change happens. Obviously, there's an different approach to it and now looking for okay. What are the physical risks where they gonNA start showing up, and how do I invest based on that kind of outlook? Into some closing questions. What's your favorite hobby? Our activity outside of work and family well. You know I'm a cyclist. I have been for a long time. I I continued to do that even now. I also like to play off. I haven't played a lot of golf and I don't imagine I will be anytime soon. The other thing I like to do which is kind of fun is in the exercise. Round, pilates. My wife got me interested in that years ago and now I live on the East Coast, but I happen to be stuck here in California, so it's a little difficult to go to the gym with. Two terms out you can do Wadis remotely I have discovered using an IPAD so i. continue to enjoy your fly even while I'm out here great. What's your biggest pet peeve? My pet peeve right now is that we're not taking science seriously, right? We're not doing the right things with respect to corona virus. It just drives me crazy. You know in terms of lack of leadership in this country and in this country, which is you know the richest honor? Protected people from a virus, and it's kind of sad, but I think we can get through it, and then we can you know slam on the brakes on climate and author much better. What your biggest investment pet peeve investors have common by these, and all of us do and we try and avoid them so when bias trying to time the market you know and thinking we know better than others and I don't know it's not a peeve so much, but it's a biased that I try to avoid you know. Whenever people ask me what I think about the market. You know the answer. It's where it is for some reason. I'm not sure I understand why and I. Certainly don't know which way it's going. What do you do for self growth? I sit on a lot of words, and I must say I learned a lot from those boards, so it's really for me opportunity to operate in a number of different areas. I'm on the board of. Of the options Clearing Corp so that keeps my toe in the water. Financial markets is Robert Johnson board which is focused on developing a culture now. The Sloan Foundation which funds science in Economics Oh. You know not to mention my environmental boards were alike fund and and so I can go on, but anyway that's plenty of You know learning of their. Teaching from your parents as most stayed with you well, you know. My Dad was an engineer and I've always been kind of in that sense, practical mean financial engineer. I think is kind of form of engineering. When I was young, I used to think I was going to be a scientist, and then I undergraduate major was human biology. Well I got very interested in. Journalism at one point, I was a journalist that I went back and became an economist so. It's been kind of ECLECTIC journey for me, but that rounding in in engineering and that practical approach knowledged solving problems. With all my life all right last one. What Life Lessons Have you learned that you wish you knew a lot earlier in life I'm still learning, and what would I have done differently? You know it's been for me as I said a very eclectic journey and I don't really regret, but I don't feel like. There's any one thing that I would say. You know I wish I'd learned it earlier I. Don't know Bob, thanks so much for taking the time. Thanks for listening to this episode I. Hope You've found a nugget or two to take away and apply in your investing and your life. If you'd like what you heard, please tell a friend, and maybe even writer of you on I tunes. You'll help others discover the show and I thank you for. It have a good one and CNN. This podcast Hasbro informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions, all opinions expressed by guests on the show are solely their own opinion, and do not necessarily reflect those of their firm managers. Appearance on the show does not constitute an endorsement or investment recommendation by Ted or capital alligators.

World Wildlife Fund Goldman Sachs US Bob Goldman Cappos Wellington Management Wildlife Fund Mit California Alliance for Decision Educatio G. Sam Co Bob Letterman Bob Great
NPR News: 06-28-2020 3AM ET

NPR News Now

04:39 min | 4 months ago

NPR News: 06-28-2020 3AM ET

"Live from NPR news I'm Nora Raum, legislators Mississippi have taken an historic step toward removing and replacing their states flag within confederate battle emblem debate over the issue has been regenerated in recent weeks after the death of George, floyd ignited protests across the country against police, violence and racism Mississippi Public, broadcasting's Theresa Call Your has more cheers erupted in the halls of the Mississippi State capitol. After lawmakers in the House and Senate, cleared a procedural path to file a bill to change the state. Flag Mississippi is the last state in the country whose flag features the confederate emblem house speaker pro tem Jason White presented the resolution to the floor this. This is not about a racing history. It's about making it. Change is inevitable. Change happens earlier Saturday Republican governor take reads, said for the first time that he would sign a bill to change the flag if the Republican controlled legislature sent one debate on a bill is expected as soon as Sunday and only a simple majority is needed for it to pass for NPR news. I'm Teresa Call Your in Jackson Mississippi. The Justice Department says authorities have charged four men with destruction of federal property. They had allegedly attempted to tear down a statue of President Andrew Jackson near the White House last Monday after protests against police, brutality and racism. Protesters in Aurora. Colorado or calling for three police officers to be charged with the death of a black man last year Colorado public radio's Hayley Sanchez reports. The governor has asked the state's attorney general to reinvestigate the case after recent protests over racial justice issues, twenty-three-year-old Elisha McLean was walking home from a convenience store when he was stopped by police last August. They put him. Him in a chokehold and first responders gave him ketamine. McLean had two heart attacks and was declared brain dead days later, the officers involved were cleared of any wrongdoing at the time. Demonstrators say they want the officers to be fired and charged with McLean's death. We Lonnie Castenada is friends with a member of the Maclean family seeing it just not get attention. It feels good. It should have happened a long time. The three officers have been taken off street duty since the backlash and have been reassigned within the department for NPR News Healy Sanchez in Aurora. Police in California are investigating a shooting yesterday in the town of Red Bluff officials say man rammed his car into a walmart distribution. Center then opened fire lieutenant had border with the sheriff's Department describes the chaotic scene by disguised center. Night when one calls and multiple calls, there were an active shooter and there were multiple shots. Officials say two people were killed for others wounded. The alleged shooter was injured and taken to a hospital. You're listening to NPR news. A presidential election is underway in Poland the incumbent faces ten challengers. Most recent poll suggests that no single candidate is likely to reach the fifty percent required to avoid a runoff election in July. Despite the pandemic, many people are voting in person, except in some hard hit regions where male imbalance are required. The World Wildlife Fund is singling out Portugal and Europe's worst wildfire record. Alison robbers reports from Lisbon. About three percent of Portugal's forests spurn each year according to WWF that's in part due to rural depopulation where landowners often simply aren't on hand to reduce fire risks and also due to a decline in traditional agricultural practices, such as properly managing vegetation, but instead of pouring money into fighting those fires. WWF suggest the government focus on more effective measures to prevent them in the first place by enhancing the value of rural areas, making landscapes, more resilient and changing the behavior of the public. WWF says that because of climate change wildfires in. In larger and deadlier, not only in southern Europe, but also across the world for NPR. News Alison Roberts in Lisbon. Giancarlo says calling on the International Olympic Committee to end its rule banning protests by athletes at the Olympics. The Sprinter and Tommy Smith raised their fists on the medal stand during the one thousand, nine hundred sixty eight Olympics to protest racial inequality in the US. They were sent home. Carlos signed a letter with other athletes calling for the rule to be abolished. Saying athletes will no longer be silenced. I'm Nora Raum NPR.

NPR Elisha McLean Mississippi NPR Nora Raum World Wildlife Fund Aurora Jackson Mississippi Lisbon Portugal Europe White House Justice Department Senate Andrew Jackson Jason White Colorado
Nature Docs Avoid Habitat Destruction

60-Second Science

02:20 min | 1 year ago

Nature Docs Avoid Habitat Destruction

"This is scientific Americans sixty seconds science. I'm Christopher Dodd Yata. Documentaries are known for their sweeping natural vistas. This does their amazing footage seriously. How did they get that shot in often soothing baritone of Sir David attenborough strain incontinent what those documentaries don't do though is show the realities of environmental destruction historically particularly BBC documentaries have shied away from that Nikki Rust is an environmental social scientist at Newcastle University in the UK Russ studied work by the BBC in the World Wildlife Fund which had teamed up with Netflix to make what they said would be a whole new kind of production. They wanted it to reach. I think a billion people and that it was going to revolutionize nature documentaries except for the fact it may be that attenborough would be the narrator the Netflix series our planet aim to be different because it promised to reveal the threats facing wildlife in the natural world so did it deliver liver rust and her colleagues analyzed scripts of our planet along with three recent. BBC Series Planet Earth to Pimple Dynasties Twenty into hyenas and Blue Planet to spider cramps and logged everything they saw on the screen turns out planet only talks about threats and successes successes a bit more than Blue Planet to fifteen percent of the script did focus on the woes of the natural world but very little devastation was actually shown on screen. The spite being filmed the analysis is in the Journal people in nature. The lead author of the Study Julia Jones was in Madagascar at the time where net that flicks were there filming and she knows that they were there filming the destruction of Habitat and burning and lots of mental devastation so they've got fatigue is just unfortunately it wasn't chosen to be included. It's not clear if that's really a bad thing. Though we still don't really know whether showing environmental tragedies on screen green motivates people to support conservation but what climate change communication has taught us. Ross says is that the ideal way to motivate audiences is with optimism tinged with trepidation. Thanks for listening for scientific American sixty seconds science. I'm Christopher Don Yata.

Christopher Dodd Yata BBC David attenborough Netflix World Wildlife Fund Nikki Rust Julia Jones attenborough cramps Newcastle University Ross scientist Russ UK Madagascar sixty seconds fifteen percent
Adapting Conservation to Climate Change at WWF

America Adapts the Climate Change Podcast

1:52:55 hr | 2 years ago

Adapting Conservation to Climate Change at WWF

"Hi, everyone. This is America adapts the climate change podcast. Hate after's. Welcome back to a truly exciting episode of America dabs. This is an epic nearly a year in the making show. I join with Sean Martin of World Wildlife Fund to take a behind the scenes look at how WWF is adapting conservation to the new realities of climate change and helping governments prepare for the future in ways that ensure place for nature during this eight month journey I follow how WWF is developing a simple process to integrate climate change risks into its strategies and documents challenges and triumphs they face along the way. This was a dazzling episode for me it features WWF staff from twenty countries on five continents telling stories on a wide range of topics including elephants super typhoons and urban water scarcity and even though the episode focuses on conservation. The lessons learned from this process can be applied to almost every adaptation sector. It's not easy institutionalizing adaptation but much to be learned by w. W F efforts. Please stick around until the end of the episode for episode housekeeping. Okay. Dafter strap yourselves in we're going on a worldwide journey of up with the panda. Here. We are back with a very special episode. I am with Sean Martin senior director for climate change adept tation resilience at World Wildlife Fund in Washington DC. Hey, Sean, a great to be back. Okay. Sean, as you know, this is a very different episode for me. I'm very excited about what we're doing here. This is eight months in the making it started off in Kenya and very excited to be sharing this with my listeners in so how did you come up with this idea? And how are you going to use this episode? So for me it actually started before our workshop in Kenya. It's a year in the making for me. I thought you know, we're really trying to adapt. Conservation at World Wildlife Fund were trying out some new ways of doing that. And I really wanted to document the process in the learning over time. So that WWF staff could learn from it, and hopefully your listeners as well. So we're actually producing off. Oh documentary. Okay. So WBF is a fairly complicated organization. You have offices all over the world, but WWF isn't a single organization. Can you give a little background to help my listeners better understand WWF as they follow the rest of this episode short WWF is pretty complicated organization. Many people think we're just one single organization with a headquarters and a lavar many offices take direction from that single headquarters. But actually, we are a federation of thirty or more WWF by now with one hundred offices all over the world and each country has its own conservation strategy, and so when we dive into this episode, your listeners are going to hear from lots of people from our country offices all over the world, and it's good to remember that they each have unique challenges with conservation and climate change in their countries, and they all have different strategies to tackle those challenges. Okay. So let's just do this in. The first part of this episode. We're gonna take a world tour to learn how climate change impacts are already feting WWF conservation work. Yeah. So I'm really excited about this part of the episode. We're going to start off by going to the Mekong delta in Vietnam. And we'll hear about how rapid economic development and climate change are together threatening the rich by diversity of that region. And then we're off to Mexico to learn about how climate change is threatening the monarch butterfly and its wintering grounds. And then it's dmed a gas car where a lot of people have been displaced by severe droughts. And now they're moving into forest land, cutting down this force to farm in the Philippines. We're going to learn how that country WWF is involved in planning for super typhoons in Uganda will learn how increase water scarcity is driving conflict between farmers and elephants and finally will land in Cape Town, South Africa to see how the severe drought there has affected. The city has even made it difficult for wwltv staff to come to work. Okay. Let me just say really quickly. How awesome it was for me even Skyping in with these folks from all over the world. It was just fantastic opportunities. So let's jump right in here from them. My name is Kate tech men, and I'm working in WW Vietnam 's climate and energy practice WWF works a lot on the maycom delta, which is a priority landscape for conservation WWF, his vein working there since two thousand seven and we were to restore the resilient to the delta and highlight risky investments and support by visiting resilience of local PayPal the doses. One of the most fertile will make is one of the out in the world, and it to a strong freshwater coastal diversity. So this Molin three hundred Stacy's of fish, this a range of habitats like rivers and freshwater wetlands mangroves grasses had a land glands. But also, economically critical Vietnam. So it's the most productive agriculture Nagara. Cultural area it contributes to a fifth of shady pay produces off of yet nouns. Ross ninety percent of raw six seventy percent of sixty five percent of safer on its horn to eighty million people the delta in particular is it's facing considerable threat from development that as a very much exacerbated by climate change. So the Mako is one of the three vulnerable dealt on air and rising sales increased frequent tropical storms aggressive wind waves shifting rainfall patterns in high temperatures will add to water stress exposure natural disasters, which aggravate the impacts to people under threaten mangroves housing infrastructure. And also agriculture agriculture in the delta which threatened the Zorn's and the may conked out Deke, which is really about salable, sir. Guts some of the impacts. Biology's Korean war with of you, the US and in iding were with this institution seems on the place where we are working is the center of on both of light your Federal Reserve. These natural protected area was created in two thousand to protect the main of a reader sides for the moon of of life me grade from Canada on United States, Mexico to family that we jour- in these forests that ninety percent of the total of Latian in North America. You're their wager where the changes in climate that you are seeing in most concerned about one example or not of two thousand sixteen when we fold that we have inching that monitory of. Winter in on all TV these related with the conservation of amounts. We have most important rainstorm died. I saw in the last twenty years in my life here with the monarch so the pact of their rain storm was tremendous a lot of Monot died round seven millions of them because these storm was really really none normalcy Gration for bail during here. So bad kind of things happen in right now on we are, of course, a new kind of challenges by the humanity that most important hearing, the we didn't sides was illegal logging right now, we most to consider the changes of climate to do actions to be adapted to this guy. Of situations in thoughtfully. So my name is Harry soi in the emerging for WWF Augusta. As the senior issue of clementines updating though minorities leg to ensure that that we have Madagascar works Clemens smart to ensure that all of the work that you do in address climate Reese, so can you describe specific place where you work in in. Why that's important to World Wildlife Fund since twenty twelve WWF Monica has focused his work on for priority landscape in them going to talk about Manabu CBS landscape, we go Kate. He didn't away stone part of the country is landscape is home of very rich biodiversity, including mangroves dry forest. Lakes marshes in one of the icon. Ick diversities Lee Moore in the one of the reason I want to talk about climate change in this. Area. Because Lee we have experienced variant dynasty in issue. The last five years you displacement in general WWF is most concerned about the impact of climate change on communities, which has really indirect impact on out. The by divers around the post on by developing twenty sixty we lost four sending tunnel dry forest. One of the main causes man Gration as an example, the droughts that happened in the south of Madagascar route follows in what goods they can't mean this area to convert florist groundnuts and maize in thickly the forest near the predicted Orioles, which really make our consideration where very challenging. Yet, either by I had the climate and energy program for WB Phillips help my listeners, visualize the Philippines. What are some of the climate impacts that you have to deal with over there? Okay. So the Philippines is an archipelagic county where composed of over seven thousand six hundred islands. So we got a lot of typhoons and storms from the Pacific very strong ones. But since we're have a lot of violence, and we're surrounded by oceans sea level rises, also big challenge for coastal communities typhoons or something that the Philippines have to think about every year. And this you have a great story here. And I just want to set up a little bit. You went through this process. It wasn't a scenario plan. It was really that's right. It was sort of a combination of both. We did what we call a business risk assessment. And based on that assessment people make us scenario building exercise and the star. I was going to say was. That I dated a scenario building exercise for a worst case scenario for the city of cloven. So we went through Dexter Cise and part of their story was that by twenty twenty three. There will be like a super typhoon that will visit the city, and basically ever stated this scenario building exercise happened just a little over a month before super typhoon Haiyan visited the city, and it's it's very tonight get goose because I see how they actually envisioned that they would be visited by super typhoon. They just didn't have enough time to really bland and prepare for it at the time Hyeon was the strongest I food to ever make landfall it was beyond category. Five, you know? I I still recall the the way the scenario building story came out, and when we match how. Awesome. That I phone was even the worst case scenario cannot compare the what the reality was especially what happened after I mean, you'll get components of of some of those that are in the story. But there's certain things that you never really thought of in terms of what would actually happen if a super typhoon visited. My name is Jacob from an-and Weicker the climate change money job for the WWF. You're gonna country off his what are the some of the changes in climate and weather specifically to Uganda that people there, and and I guess w is most concerned about one of you is. The prolonged dry spells your airlines that still within the pox the wildlife was acquired, what's especially for the elephants. So with increasing dry spell's to medical dryer. What associaton the when this world sophis-, which also says dried the benefit of the final way out of the pack in big national pack, Israel, find elephants story, the increasing drought under arrest the water levels recede down and down and we've had kisses where elephants of left the pack area and crushed on community crops. But most interesting is the communities have also in one or the other in crushed the land around the pack because their land is not dry. There is no what? And the puck land seems to be having some moisture and because it's naturally come by. Face. So they tend to go into funding there. So as plant their crops within the park, but to medically the elephants are interested in the banana day planner because they feel this is the fruit for us. So I was actually happening when Ella fan visited the from day one and simply goes back and tells the rest this Ford somewhere and the whole week visiting this place, and so most of the elephants and elephants always get to eat at night. So as the communities have got I've gone into the houses that will come into gardens and destroy almost your whole livelihood of this communities after convenient waking up in the morning and finding that the whole garden was destroyed, and they got the district authorities and tell them if you control funds, we're going to kill them. So you typically find that at the end of the the impacts of climate change that Uganda is facing will. Undo some of conservation efforts. My name is Colorado Sheila, and I am currently this senior many John climate change program in WWF, South Africa. What are the changes in climate and weather in South Africa? That people are most concerned about 'em in South Africa. Yeah. Mostly concerned about della sent route that his hit most of our capital seats, which is Cape Town, it took queenie as when as parts of the Eastern Cape province. We even heard about that. You're United States that Cape down was there was even a potential date where you guys were going to run out of water. And when you're dealing with a situation where humans aren't even gonna have access to water. How does that make your job more challenging when you're focuses on wildlife? Allah job is was made more challenging from the basic Fiqh that within the. The area in Cape Town, we saw enough people running out of water. A city heavy set up various points web. People can come with kids in containers to collect water. So from them basic human rights side for us that was something that is very real and serious and also experiencing it through our the ten out way would have enough people struggling with what especially those coming from Tung sheep's. I don't know if you know, what townships mainly people that way, you find a lot of black communities in that. And you'll find that they will have challenges I'm into it because they didn't have water to really prepare themselves in for the entire images. So that is a treadmill awake quite difficult. But at the same time, we will also playing role in terms of wicked close with the city to come up with measures to how this to cope with impacts that cut into experiencing. M resulting for more strategies. All right. That was tastic. I hope everyone learned what W W F offices around the world are going through what the various climate change impacts that they're dealing with so Shaun what's next so next we're off to Nairobi Kenya. To listen in on three day workshop that we held in April. You've learned about the climate change impact. Some of our offices are facing, and what we were doing at that workshop is to look at to see if our offices are actually addressing those threats in their conservation strategies, and your listeners will find out what we learned there and how we're developing a process to move forward and help offices really get a handle on how they're going to manage these threats going forward in the course of their daily conservation work. Okay. Adapters pack your bags. We're going to Kanye. I am here with John Martin of the World Wildlife Fund. Hey, Sean has going Doug. That's going great. So let brings us to Kenya. We're here for a three day workshop with about thirty people, and what we're going to do is review conservation strategies to see if they make sense in a changing climate and we're calling this initiative. Click snap aren't when exactly clip snap. Me. Click snap is a portmanteau of two acronyms clinks stands for climate informed, conservation strategies and nap stands for national adaptation plans. What we're doing with sixteen of our country offices is that we're going to review their conservation strategies to see if they make sense in a climate changing world, and we're going to make some modifications to those. And then what we're gonna do. Then is take that learning from this climate smarting. Process, and we're going to use that information to help inform country governments as they develop their national at patient plans to make sure that the kinds of things that WWF would like to see in a national adaptation plan are actually there. So both of those things together clicks, the climate informed, conservation strategies and nap national add up tation plans. Putting those together in one initiative called click snap a little bit more history. Whose idea was it? Someone had to come up with click snap was that your idea or was initially that was already underway at WWF. It was multiple ideas from multiple people converging at the same time. I've been WWF for seventeen years now about the last ten of those I've been working on at uptaken. It's long been Mike goal to have WWF move away from adaptation of being a stand alone program or initiative into something that's more holistic with the rest of our conservation strategy. So I propose this. Idea that we climate-smart all of our conservation strategies, another individual colleague works Wf, Nepal. He came up with the idea that we should be rarely surging together as Wf network to influence national at uptaken plans. And we decided that those two things would work well together as one single initiative, so we merge them in came up with a great acronym. Click snap. So you have given me a little bit of a preview, and you have your own explications in we can dig into those a little bit later. But what do you think the expectations of these people that are coming from all these different country offices in out get some of their own feedback? But I'm just curious here at the beginning. What would you think they're expecting? I don't know what they're expecting. I only know what I hope they're expecting. And that is that WWF has decided that it's important to integrate climate change risk management into our conservation strategies. And I'm hoping that people are here. Coming here to learn more about that. So that go home and have the same kind of process with the staff back in their offices. Now, I don't know if that's what people know they signed up for by coming here. Some people have the impression that we're going to come here to talk about adaptation, what are some of the solutions? We can adopt to help preserve our conservation strategies as they are in. I'm moving this entirely different direction. I wanna make sure that we're reviewing goals in outcomes before we get into adaptation, some of the goals that we've set for ourselves really need to be rethought. When you think about climate change are some of the things that we're trying to achieve in the next five ten years are they actually gonna be achievable in the long run with climate change. And if they're not maybe we should rethink those goals at the end of this workshop, it everything just went perfectly with all these different participants. What would that look like? You I think and I'm hoping that people are going to be really excited to go home with a new way of thinking about conservation in changing climate and go home and work with their country office staff to really revise our strategies, if we're not revising our strategies in light of climate change. Like, Dan ash said on a previous episode of yours were really not doing right by conservation. We can't escape climate change. We can try to slow it down or limited. But we know there's climate changes baked into the system that were already going to experience. No matter what we do on climate change mitigation. And I don't think our strategies are really embracing that fact as much as they could at the end of the day at the end of the workshop, I'm hoping that everyone understands that and they'll be motivated to go home and make some change in their own offices out of sixteen countries. If we get five ago home in really embrace this and do a good job climates Martin there. Strategies obi. And then we have this other other part of the strategy for NAT national attestation plans. National uptaken plans are real opportunity for conservation groups like WWF to make sure country governments get it. Right. As they seek to help their nations adapt in what I say, get it. Right. I mean that were adapting to climate change in ways that support in do not undermine nature. And in fact, we're helping nature adept through these national adaptation plans, I think there's a risk that country governments might overlook nature as they try to help the vulnerable people in their countries. Of course, we need to help vulnerable people. But we think the best way to do that is by also supporting nature because those provide import ecosystem services for people to adapt to climate change as well as for their everyday livelihoods, he probably haven't idealized way thinking if a country office was doing something, really. Well, are there any? Countries that you hold up as models that are saying, okay, they are well along in this process because they worked with you with the WWF adaptation office or our people's starting off on a level playing field in WTI F. R offices vary widely in the had obtained experiencing capacity. They have in their own offices. Some offices are doing great things, but still need improvement. Others are just starting. And it's a good sign that they're here for this workshop, it wasn't easy for office to participate in this workshop, we actually needed their their senior management, either a conservation director or CEO to sign off that they are agreed to allow their conservation strategies to be reviewed that's really important because when we've tried this kind of exercise in the past people like me get very excited and really see the of the reason why we have to do it. But if the senior leadership. Isn't Baden than it just kind of dies. Sometimes I think people forget the bureaucratic approach to these things in under. Appreciate they focus more all the conservation science conservation strategies, you just mentioned leadership play such an important role. Make sure that these things happen. Do they need communication shop? You think out of this click snap process that you would get to the point where even making bureaucratic recommendations on if you really want to be successful independent of the adaptation conservation science. You might be using unique to structure this way. Great question. I hadn't thought about it before. But I'm going to take that question posted to our workshop 'cause it's great question. Yeah. We all know that it takes more than the adaptation person to make this happen in takes more than the conservation. Staff communications is a great example. How do we talk about this to the general public or to our supporters who need to understand what we're trying to do? Scientists and conservation staff aren't always the best people communicating that, but the communicators are in this workshop to learn about it. So we're going to definitely have to bring them on board and our fundraisers need to understand this. We typically go out and raise money for conservation projects, we're gonna save the tiger. We're gonna save the panda. We're going to save some wet land. And this is a different way of thinking about conservation. We might wanna have Tigers in this one place, but Tigers might need to move to another place. So how do we pose that to a donor? So our development teams are gonna need to be brought on board to make the successful. I will share an example from Florida when I was at the we had state while grants program. It's funding for all the states, and you're certain criteria that you have to meet when we're doing climate change in Florida. It was always frustrating to get different offices much like you struggle with to integrate climate change, but one of our huge victories at one point we needed in your grant proposal, you had to integrate climate change. In a very broad way. But in any way that singlehandedly drove a lot of different offices into start thinking. So it comes down to that money. Interesting that you should say that because we've noticed a lot more interest in at tation since the green climate fund came online with its five billion dollars or so for at tation work for developing countries. And all of these countries are now coming out of the woodwork. Hey, how do we access those funds? We'll talk about that at this workshop. So you're right money is a great motivator. But we have to be careful that we're not just wrapping our business as usual conservation work in the cloak of adaptation to chase funds. Was it clear to you? What I'm thinking about what this workshop is about. Yes. And no, I think we might have to do like one of those recordings that we do back in DC. What exactly is this you explained it? But well, this is the exact position everyone's going to be tomorrow morning. When I explain it part of the processes to learn it by doing it. Elevator speech for all this. And I think you were pretty close to it. If I had to explain it. I think I'd get exactly right. But you're I'm closer to figuring out what you're trying to do here. We've got a little vague for me, though, is like you were saying we're not here at the end of the week to tell you how to obtain. It's like the look at your conservation that to me. Okay. Where's the taste? So that was a little Bank for me if I'm giving you feedback now. So so a lot of people still think at uptake is about a single project standalone project that you stick in somewhere in your overall conservation plan, and a lot of people I think are going to have expectations of this workshop. Hey, we have forest fires in our country. Tell us what to do. How do we adapt? Our way out of that. That's not what we're going to talk about here. We're gonna talk about you have forest. Fires. So is a long term goal of. Saving that forest even viable with increasing number of forest. Fires. Okay. Does that make more sense? That's exactly why the the person from that was invited. He has problems with drought and says we need to figure out what to do. So you're not gonna figure out what to do here. We're going to tell you do you have the right conservation plan. If you're getting more droughts. Yeah. I think gets tricky. It's like you just giving feedback on good conservation plan making that link to like this is part of that story. That's it's a little bit tricky. Yep. But reviewing your strategies is itself adaptation wouldn't be doing this. If there wasn't climate change, and what we're doing wrong is that we're not considering climate change at the goal setting stage of our strategies, we set our goals based on rigs by diversity outcomes that we want to see, and then we think we're going to adapt our way somehow to achieve those goals and not everything achievable with climate change, you share Dan, a clip from like, you said earlier day Nash came on the podcast about the ability to save everything. And it just seems like as you are describing defining goals at that stage. If we really listened to Dan's advice, you know, we're not doing that with these conservation plans. That's right. I see very few conservation plans to WWF anywhere. That's really embracing the fact. As Dan put it we are in a mass extinction crisis. And we can't save everything. But one of our country offices has strategy that says, no more species extinction and good luck with that. Yeah. So hopefully, that's one thing. We'll correct in. The course of this workshop we understand that you need to be in bishops and aspirational, but I wanna live forever. That's my aspiration. But I know it's not gonna happen. So how can we be realistic and pragmatic as well as ambitious and hopeful? Okay. I'm with Sean Martin here on the first day of the event. Hey, Sean what's going on right now? Well, we are three minutes before starting time. And I'm very happy to see that everyone's on time really excited about today. There seems to be a lot of energy in the room. People are talking and excited to be here are folks here sort of curious what they're up to this week. If you had those conversations at a few of them, I haven't got to talk to everybody yet. But they're definitely people that came that we didn't know we're coming because they were curious of what we're doing. So that's a good sign. Okay. And so what is our morning? It'll look like you're the first ninety minutes or so it was really introductory stuff. We'll do some icebreakers and introduce people to what we're going to achieve in the next three days. And then after our break will be digging into cliques. Okay. Great. Is I I come from they're gonna country office, and they couldn't get the energy climate and extractives program. Jacob the tuna. Walking gonna country office and specifically while called climate walk as climate change money. Okay. So you're here at this meeting. What I'm asking is what are your expectations? This is the first day of the meeting. So you know, what the meeting's about, but what are your own personal expectations? My expectations is that the meeting with help us to kind of draw roadmap on how we work with our countries. For example, name adoption plans out implemented at addition plans and also see how we can follow rate as an organization and taking forward the climate change. And what about you? What are your expectations is to understand clean and really get to know what critical issues that looking and also to kind of what kind of tools are we going to develop together? So that we can able to demand in the different country offices, especially giving that bedding into the formation of. National titian. We are going to start with a quick icebreaker. Everybody. Another. All right. We're going to do exercise all answer with your feet. So the verse question is an easy one. If this is your first time to visit Kenya moved to this side of the roof. If you've been to Kenya before or you year to this side of. Welcome to Kenya. All right. Thank you so much for everybody be on fine. I love that. I make sure when I run a workshop everything starts ends on time. I brought my favorite facilitators too. When you're near that it being the richest over police, it doubt, we have scheduled long braids, thirty minutes to place a day, plus an hour for lunch. So we do this. So you don't have to spend time looking at your emails or your laptops during the workshop time. So please do not play yourself or be on your laptop. I have no problem shaving people when I tend to them. I only have to do one. Acilitator I learned from somebody very smart to keep people off their cell phones. It's good to bring toys like promise you that. I was gonna bring toy of you have toys under table enough for everybody. The ovary Brier favorites late and just play with it. So I just wanted to go over a few of what why we all of you here together what we hope to get out of the meeting snap, which is climate. I. Inform and. Again for now on this click snap. So we brought all here together to start forming this community of practice around clicks, shake click snap is what Phillips said earlier mainstream climate considerations into strategies as I collected all the countries that are represented here today, and I looked at them, and we have not done as well as we should have. And so we're going to try as you ways introduce you to look at his strategy to tell if it is climate smart enough or not, and we are not here to tell you how to do this. We are going to expose you to some ideas. Collectively, we're gonna decide as a community. What's the best way for WWE after climate smart? It's strategies for you can do whatever you want in your own offices learning practice. So we are building consensus of what we won't place. Two. Says he will give you an overview of the second. But the nap part of this national habitation plans, he's doing for countries national patients, and if our strategies aren't climates Mark out. Can we inform the national government? What to do? We haven't thought about ourselves. So those two things work together. All right. That's basically what we want to get out of this meeting. It's your sandy denier here take we are here to support you in your click snap during. Cindy is going to give us the overview of lex nap. So this is the lambing outcome that is by neck, I'll amid Gaudi's by Cutty and good able industrial cities under late that means level one point five days. People nature and be limited. It's cut the bottom key for all of us on the this an come by thirty all intimating Nestle later. Our event that ends abuse Clement this. The outguns had dig key the flushing the primary eagerness number of undecided. Evening Vanek villain that land. But the end the second indicators of these about the finance of floor that contributes to mobile will will is the talk bottle. The our intern of is plus of the Nestle obvious you as a brat infringe staticy, Mike, you seventy five offices. So then by gas getting under his do. So. Okay. We're starting. I'm interviewing some folks here in I'm with Philip Pademba from WWF Kenya office Inca from Mongolia. First off since this is the first day what really are your expectations for this meeting. Yes. For me is decision on the wing strategies submitted the national office strategy, really my expectation is that we can make this strategy is really climates much incorporating climate risks. Okay. So what are your expectations? Yeah. My expression is really learning because we use in our congressional strategy. Those words like resilient climate too smart without much. They meaning this words, so I really have to have to learn about how to to make our strategy climbed. Smarting we've seen a couple of presentations this morning, he thinks of stand out for you. You're like, oh, I didn't know we were going to do that. Or that information shocking. Why are we even hear her me Cindy percent of all Otis their conservation strategy to make client smart? It was for me where embellishes bull. I hope will be there. But you don't think we're going to get you think seventy five percents probably too high of number. It's high still high because you saw there on the year perspective offices at the moment. For me for just vision. Film Sandeep set 'Presentation a yeah. It was interesting to note. Way Sam countries of not enroll because that by in sometimes from the took management level is not as good as it should. So would you agree with Anke that the seventy five percent uptake with offices to to do? This is to am bishops. Or do you think you guys are up for it? Good challenge. Save into. It's good to be bishops set those targets. But I think the more we do sensitization, especially within our own offices because this makes a lot of sense for me, we can meet that depending on how much do this desertion bring out. The message out clearly the significance. What are these about? Then we can achieve that. My name is Nick from Niagara. I'm Beijing lifting offish, so what's your role for this workshop? I want him convenient like sun. And also that the practice expert for climate adaptation work for Glamorgan practice would have you thought of far has it met your expectations, and he surprises the surprise what I can say is that good engagement for the participant and concealed affinity in discussing the issues too good sign here responsibility with WWF is working on the national reputation plans across the planet. I guess I didn't quite get is that country to have a national adaptation plan, but they have to fall under a certain category to do the national tation plans that you're helping encourage because then we'll be eligible for some this international funding that show the necessary prison the terminology what we say naps is came from the position process. Right. And and if you want to exit. The international funding from like the and others the naps could be one of the period that is continues to do. Now, you must have been for while remembers Matthews is a freshwater at tasted, and he came up with this way to describe it contribution to the changing climate and our business as usual survey. Shen assumes that the client is not change it as we approach conservation, assuming stationary Mynatt. We can restore ecological balance repair damage places or we preserve that are not yet. And that worked fine as long as it was a changing, and Chris is changing. So why he proposed is planet changes of vetting of paradigm of survey. Tion we can't do this anymore. We have about a changing planet and actually Acilitator change helping nature. Adapt not trying to eat it the same. That's impossible. So clearly, the favorite color is blue. Not everybody favorite color is year. This is what consensus. Everyone. Agreed. It means everyone can live with a group decision. The now we're gonna use his Satan exercise on something. That's a little hard complicated. What are the essential elements of a climate smart other Asian plant, well, the favorite? So this is going to involve a lot more discussion at your table to come up with the final one you wanna present. Now this day will you guys everybody almost everybody picked blue though, easy. Another hour. Yes. You you live or even. Hey, look, great. Great guys. Ju blue green pink. So how did you come to this on blood ran out? In the. To this. Okay. So you had a discussion on which one to begin with? It's all about you, get all the ideas on the table. And then you sort it out of the group want, you agree. So thinking about this question, what are the essential elements or characteristics of climate smart, other vision plan, whatever that means to you are another way to think about it? What would you look for the conservation strategy if to determine its clients or not? You might have more than one answer to this question as okay, we want lots of ideas. And I want you to write one idea for post it note up to three ideas person in take a few minutes to do that. And then we'll start snapping. I'll start with this stable resent one idea. You just come to the star with EM. He's going to say what it is. Maybe say one sentence about what that means and anybody else who has a same or similar idea when she's done speaking come up and snap. Our first element is the identification of grits that self Expos. Come on. Is this is a little bit different. And so this is where they gets interesting. So we just waited this like stay slab changes is that the same Bris. We're going to stick it out here lose this one. But maybe it's not exactly. Video gets hours. Elements documenting the current climate threats to order ses any snaps to that. Subset of more specific going. Down along the same was big table. One idea. Interesting. Snaps to addressing what you've identified year. If you been bringing up her. Her just going down. This is not only at risk paternity invasion. Just be out in posited. Posited address. Not addressing the risk. Very well said, I will summarize these storing watch into what I think we've come the incentives to there are one or face. I wanted to have five or six looks like we had that as our starting. Now, we're going to refine these concepts esta when we start actually looking at our conservation strategy doesn't have this this this. And then by the end of the workshop will have a refined. Liz that we can present to the entire network of what this room has come up with on one. We wanna see as a climate informed. My name is native boot. And I worked for worldwildlife on what Amal Missouri, but this Billy's. Okay. So why are you here at this workshop in contribute from my office input into the workshop pretty much see how we can contribute. See how we can benefit from. It were has surprise you during this meeting. Anything surprise me? I have been working in climate change for some years. They're always of news. Learn something new, and so there are some king that I've learned new muscle very excited to see no more Spencer, and how much people are interested in seeing that we try to be in treatment that a patient purse or conservation strategies to Sean wants people to be completely honest and blunt. What have you liked about this workshop set up and what hasn't worked for you? Let's far is good just the environment. It's very interactive too. Nice of of presentation activity. Which I think is where you can really Neil the issues and trying to address whatever challenges in a rights and getting also refer to interact with my peers as well to see what I can learn from them, and what I can share in matern, can you tell me a little bit something special about believes Belise, these it's not only because I'm from Billy's believes is considered one of the lateral jewel of the world. Sean is leading them in something weird. Okay. Other one for the legs. You do the tree post or wrap your foot and pull it up? So you're pulling your knee next year Deesor together, you're trying to get your geese close impossible. This is hard. If you're really good you could grab behind your back. Ben. Really? All the way to the floor. This. The other side. This next section is about other words resilience is everywhere. Our strategy. We're gonna make sure of each of the sustainability is really about me dating balance between natural resources option. Okay. Changing climate. That's really hard to do because change is undermining the natural resource base resilience different weight making about the world is with standing and recovering from shots into servants to maintain continued analogy so and resulted in a big fan of his ISA where sustainability aides to put the world back in balance resilience look for ways to manage inbounds. Were we talk about gonna do sustainable fisheries over management planted mitigations dateable energy as if that's building resilience sustainability? Does not always build resilience Glen Tait. Here's where conservationists trouble of this concept of resilience where baking that when you wish Dan recovered from shots disturbances worth making about returning back to what it used to be and maintaining continue such analogy. We we're not gonna change is Justin. Continuing on the past. So this guy said major persist, but nature is big on every tree last forever. Every street clothes until the end time the world changes in nature changes. When we understand that we could be gin to build resilience is about changing with change. We have all these words in conservation that really indicate we are managing or persistence. Not all our favorites. Conserve protect remain restore return fits permanent, long term, sustainable the league. When you see those worthy strategy is a red flag him we really do that. Or we have to manage for change not resistance. Just the gate a brain mortgage realis- eventually he will. You will. Apply some of these ideas, and these ideas to our strategies in groups, and we're going to have to the brain. And we are taking on time. We're going to review the climate arts. Ours JiJi, z are in my land risks art of ours. These in. We'll see some around as review in the country and strategies again, and they'll Redick country conservation strategy than everyone will go around and give feedback. Three point one. I really liked the way that you had science face climate data. The connectivity. That was great. The kid discourage they even be in different places to what you would have that climate change, and they're like refused, which presumably a science based. So that's nice that you refused. That's so when the. This easy for me to see that. Of what's? I what he said about using the wording of stop cheaper into to stop. So the divers regime loss. The like. Sean is changing process. So stopping very ambitious. So perhaps you can acknowledge ING visit threat to stugotz. Stugotz, he can begin used to would. I was minimizing. Or never gee just looking around the room. There's people from all over the planet here coming together. Trying to identify adaptation tragedies, I think that's a strength of this approach. WWF should be proud. We've got people from Central America Asia. All coming up conservations right is all trying to come up about a tation strategies. One quick thing. Is it just doesn't say conserve? It also say improved consideration of. Paris. And by improve by creating new. Which is fine too. You do from unit to make that is climate smart way. So. Madam from wwltv Mexico office and the monitor evaluation coordinator, what are your expectations for this workshop to be honest to understand a bit more about Titian in climate change because it's not my main area of work just a little bit of Mexican flavor. If you had to describe, okay, what are you really protecting in Mexico? And I know you could talk day on that. So our main lines of work are the monarch butterfly migratory route and then the hibernation site, some work, the coral reef seem that you tempting Sula we have a big ocean program, which includes Wales sharks turtles and all the communities that depend on tourism with those species for income in the entire country. Have a big water reserve program, which is were trying to create water reserves that ensure that freshwater is protected, but what about you have you been a big fan of wildlife? Have you been an outdoors person since you were young? Yeah. I'm actually have it Narian, and I did some work with horses while I was stuck. Being. And then afterwards, I started moving into wildlife. So I started moving into conservation. Then I went and did my master's degree in conservation biology and worked for a while for two years in the government agency that makes the protected areas in Mexico, and then after that I moved into WWF now, you're stuck in front of a computer all the time. The right. Yeah. But I like it 'cause I'm very structure person. So the whole strategic part of it and tracking things is I like it. But you you need to go into the field. Every once in a while to make sense of what you're doing in the computer in to recharge the batteries. So we've spent the bulk of the day in these groups were gone through sort of page by page is there any specific criticism against your Mexican plan that stood out or was it all just positive. No, definitely needs a lot of work. It's it's doing better because we've had a couple of exercises in our own office that have we have adopted this strategy. But there's definitely a lot of positive. Comments we've received about it. No one about the makeup of the workshop itself. I mean, do you like the structure that Sean setup probably been to a bunch of workshops bunch of meetings. I guess what are the positives and negatives, and you can say something negative, Sean. He's open to read it facilities, boring podcast owes really great anything. That's not working or what's working. I've actually really enjoyed the dynamic of the workshop I've been to through a lot of them in most of them are really long and you get lost in the middle of them. So he's very well at tracking time and keeping people on the subject you're supposed to review, and it helps out of the big breaks you get because you're able to attend whatever is going to Europe in Europe is that gonna stop 'cause we're here. How'd you feel about the fried gizzards at the coffee break? I the that was really weird. I can have salty things with my coffee breaks, your and L. Please coffee was terrible downside of things. I can have coffee. Yeah. That was that was a really bad point. Yeah. Sean, please take care of coffee next time, we want brewed coffee. Freshly brewed, please. I am megi Konare. And I am the wildlife practice leader for WWF international. So what do you think of the workshop so far? Well, the workshop has been great for me. It's been especially important going through the various countries strategies and trying to see where climate should be placed in the strategies where it's missing or where people implied that it's there, and the consideration may not be there because last year the wildlife practice developed their strategy, and in going through it we withdrew some of these comments that are being placed in now because we assumed that climate was ever present in people's minds, and that we taught when we talked about resilient ecosystems that people would be thinking about the effects of climate change. I'm learning that that's not always true and. And when you're trying to change people's approaches, and especially just introducing something new to how we go about doing things. Those statements might need to be in there. So I'm going back to our strategy to look at it with a bit of a different different look to it. Okay. Maybe a little bit more background on that. So your position it's sort of a higher level in WWF. And of course, the difference between these higher level strategies. And then we see on the ground must be really useful for you to come to these kind of workshops to maybe give a little bit more background on what you are trying to do in your position. Okay. Well, the wildlife strategy the wildlife practice strategy is informed by all of these strategies that I'm reading through here at this workshop, and it's really great to see how they're thinking about incorporating climate change issues into their country strategies and those all. Lead up to the to fulfilling the overarching wildlife practice strategy. Okay. I just don't know enough about WBF, even after my relationship with Sean. So there's a wildlife strategy. But is there a sort of a broader adaptation strategy in our those linked up or those two different things or they won in the same. No. There is a non abroad or at patient strategy, but the wildlife practice strategy incorporates aspects of adept tation, I've looked through the conservation strategies. I've read them in some of them are very different. There's themes that are very similar, but as as you dealing with a larger broader strategy are there things that kind of stand out for you positive and negative on some of these guess countrywide strategies mainly positive because a lot of people are thinking about landscape protected area management. That's one of the primary outcomes of the wildlife practice strategy. Which is vital habitats conserved, and certainly with affective management being employed in those protected areas thinking about connective, which brings in issues of climate change insuring that protected areas are connected to allow for new and different migrations. Perhaps so has been positive seeing things like that incorporated into these strategies that I've been reviewing today. I think so I'm gonna challenge from the Mexico office. And the is go out our at of Titian expert as she could be here. So shit needs. So this is our journey huge spikes, not willing. So basically are convinced writers are these four areas, and we had ten outcomes eight nine and seven which is a lot. So the with did as a nation. We have rules in the outcomes for each team in what we did was we sat down on the night. We we. The goal coordinator. Basically, the expert on that theme. We sat down with them. And we did this. So we decided we were going into comments to the goals, and then we went into more detail outcome level, and we ask this questions. So I one was to identify haven't fear conservation or well-being target. These helps prioritize piece of extremists resembling you for your outcome of various species and in the future. The species news out of the need to be very clearly when she's priority that the any may change in some cases, it's going to be the in some species. But if you don't have that clear, you can fly in the what are your strategies gonna be we decided to climate risk for each one example excite and their implications for the target about this climate risks and then wasted tackled. This climate is for for just a casual down with the expert. We didn't while the to think it was a very long planning process. Again, we just ask the your idea the goal, what do you think climate change? And just talk to me about it. So Bizet sample is influence. It was about yesterday. So expert just started describing the events leading having the impacts that has had the butterflies of twenty two thousand trees fell vantage absence Steen, Honey, butterflies, the guy how tourism is impacting the butterflies of is because of climate change there. There's a warmer winter in North America. The butterfly comes down later and then concern of coin sites with the tourists coming in. So stressful moment for them. But because the tourists coming in is already written down there allowed to you can change it. So one of the problems is that they are going at the same time. That's that's a risk for us. So we we ended this vision. They may we said implications for consideration targets. So for example of your conservation targets on the community is a live or their income stays on the tourism on the. Impacts many want to consider is if the reason is coming in anymore. Those communities I'm going to have any or the butterflies really stress because of a weather of thirty storm. You're gonna have your dying with the move. Area. Your targets the is to decide which target given a stick with and then finally talk to them or they talk to you about ways to tackle those things. So they say we need to Semple shift or make flexible the tourism dates so they could come in once or twice already settled down. We need to start money touring actually over a dune someone turn where the butterflies moving outside today. Areas in start to plant trees in those areas measures give some for the two questions. General is you? Down at. Yes. So team is the common expert. Mike immediate terms the plants. And then the expert has so it's just a casual talk. Yeah. It's about an hour with into prairie useful to mention this to them as they're very busy time. They are done with all this planning or long process of one hour of their time. I'm at Stevens from the Dutch office in the Netherlands. Okay. So what do you do there that I'm the climates really resilient officer? I advise my colleagues on how to integrate climate adaptation into their contravention plant. Give me because I'm curious. We had this conversation the other day, but just what are some of the issues that you're dealing with in the Netherlands, and I guess in some regions around there just a little bit of background. I think some people would be curious adaptation in the Netherlands. Well, we have a lot of experience with nature based solutions in education in Elland. We have this beautiful project room for the waiver where instead of building dikes we gave away for the river. We bought up land or not we w f but the government on our advice the bland so the river can take its course in times of flooding and. You get a beautiful nature area back. So that's the kind of solutions. We like did you have expectations heading into this meeting before you actually ride here? We've been we're on day two now. But did you have expectations where they low or they high expectations a little bit of an unusual meeting? Well, first of all, I really was looking forward to make comedic some of my colleagues that I'm I speak on the phone on Email, but I don't travel a lot. So that was especially my colleagues from Mongolia Malaysia, Indonesia Russia. It was really heartwarming. I had high expectation of the workshop, but I have been to Sean workshops on education before newish, really good. And especially the first day was really very good. I think the exercise where we try to come up without any bickered information where we try to come up with what do we think is climate smart conservation? And what you saw that people came up with all the elements that are needed. Before even toll toes. So we have we have to trust more on our own knowledge. So it's a very good way of efforting. What you're ready knowing expects? Did you have the chance to give feedback if things needed to change? Yeah. I've already had to exchange of giving feedback on some of these plans, and what you see in in general, why you on a level of advisers can have very good interior discussions. You try to write up things, but very often what happened on the management level. It's got it. It's disappears. And you have worked on it for quite some time. So that's gonna be very disappointing. I heard recurring theme in this. Maybe you picked it up to that. So even though these countries might be well underway to begin becoming good at uptake strategies. People say a key part of any of this is good leadership in my even be people in this room. And if you don't have that leadership back in your home office or even. The head of government. A lot about offer. Not did you pick up on that sort of theme? Do you agree? Well in our in our office is different men amendment both director and head of conservation thing, this is really important. But the problem is that it's at the level of implementation of the level of expert is considered to be important, not urgent and unless diminishment also really guide the whole process and people accountable for what they have promised. It's still going very slow. And when I started doing is this I told by director, look, you're asking for culture, change what. Because conservationist are by nature conservative. They look at the past and what has worked and what didn't work going to repeat it. So this whole forward looking thinking looking at a future looking nice. That's completely new to most people and they feel challenged. It's. About I think I think I give them an identity crisis metric about climate change. They don't they do not want to think about because they have so many other issues underplayed already. You have a few things to say about the use of science that. Well, we started the climate smarting process by decision of the head of contravention to look into the climate impacts for all our Dutch. Priority regions are thirteen terrestrial regions. We focus on and we had an interesting researcher. And he went ahead ended his research, and there was a complete mismatch between our expectations. And what people need it on on the crown, and what he came up with what he came up with even our science and Pfizer and me with seen some climate to find it so hard to understand, and my contribution police could not comprehend it at all. So we said down with them for three hours and took him through. But what it did? Is it put people off they got scared? I don't understand this need to understand this. So instead of engaging them we sort of pushed him away with this. Scientific information. So well, it can be really good. If you already know what you want to know, and you have really good extensive conversations with the scientists it won't really help the implementation of climate adaptation on the ground in the first face. And I think the approach that the Mexican officers taken just to sit down with people not necessarily isn't actually talk about climate change. But what do you see happening? What is your experience that can be really empowering and helping people to see any final thoughts about we have one more day tomorrow or things that you might take back to the office after you return to another. Yeah, I have I have so many ideas. My head is a bit is a bit exploding it mobile, but certainly I will take away to the Mexican approach just sit down with the experts and ask them what what is happening and in involve them an engagement and empower them any. Thoughts for Sean? Do you wanna talk directly to Sean? What do you have to say about this workshop or what they should be doing after this workshop more stretching? All right. I'm here with Nikki Giovanni on the second day. I want you to spring some dirt and Cincinnati. You can just wink once for. Yes. Two for no. No, it's been great. So far for me, one of the nicest things these meetings. Is you meet to discuss in this case, you know, it's sort of launching the click snap strategy and how we're going to work together moving forward, but these are all colleagues with before a bunch of them. I funded projects in the countries within the last year. So it's really a nice way to catch up with people to tell me about the first day. Meet your expectations anything missing. Yeah. I thought it was good. We started to do a bit of a deep dive into some of the strategies an overview of the whole climate smarting process, and what kinds of things to look for men. A lot of nice sort of interactive activities. Why do you value in the whole click snap process? Well, the idea is that all officers are mainstream climate adaptation into they're doing and up until now I feel like it's the kind of thing that people just pay lip service to the right climate smart here and there in their strategy, and they'll claim that they're adapting to climate change. And that's not the reality. So I think this is a good way to develop a more coherent approach to it. But but the next step to me, even this is a business immediate step. What really needs to happen after this is for all the different countries. And all the strategies we need to start identifying one or a few projects where we can really integrate climate change on tation. She have quite a few projects that take you out in the field yourself. Maybe give an example of that. I think he worked with elephants with what are those projects? Yeah. A lot of my species work is actually behind a desk and working with experts not necessarily interacting with the species. But yeah, a lot of my work is getting data on how communities are being impacted by climate change. So next week I had to Madagascar and doing a training for peace corps volunteers. So we work with the peace corps in over ten countries. And the volunteers are collecting data for us on how the communities they live in being impacted by climate change. And then we're working with them to develop an implement projects that help those communities adapt to climate change. Okay. So you're collecting some data, and then you go to that process of actually helping them implement it. But how does that what you're doing especially with the data plug into a country office at obtain planet does your work fit seamlessly into that process. Yeah. Great question. It should I and up until now, you know, in all the countries we work in we've had more engagement with the WWF office in some countries than in others. And Mexico's a great example in Mexico that WWF office. Peace corps, and canal, which is the Mexican national park authority all three are working together very closely and climate crowd, which is a project talking about is one of the projects that they were. Ideally, the data that we're collecting all these countries will inform the strategy for that country office. The last day of the workshop on Friday here. And so everyone is sitting around tables, and they're having discussion based on some questions that Sean has put forward to them, and I wanna share this questions really quickly. So you have some context of these conversations that are happening. Shawn asks them to answer these questions who in your office will be the person responsible for rolling out the climate review to people adaptation available and another who should be the second question is what form documentation, do you think would be appropriate third question. What time you think it's realistic go through the review and produce documentation, and this be accomplished in the next six months next year longer fourth question in your office will drive the national adaptation process. How will they be involved in the climate reviewed insurer learning his passed on? And finally, what challenges might you encounter? How can you overcome? These. What are your passively needs their lot of big questions at their answering? And so I'm looking out at these different tables, and all these people from these different countries are trying to answer this. And trying to figure out how their offices are going to work on these issues. All right. I'm gonna go back around and start listening in a bit more. Differently necessities. And that's. What state here doing determined to this? When your own try to his somebody management team or other calling you need to support to his I think we should get snips in. Commit myself as climate in. I should also we should use our conservation director. Is the person? This must be she. Is Jerry he just as mainstream rely much of that is going to see it as. Up to that yet, Raymond in the context of this is to your changing of John? It will be easy to. Executive house. Sometimes they don't have a stand Lok. Now it degraded with their mitigation. Yes. That's something today. Yesterday. No, he's another complicity on event ads. They can do either but nasty process and the EP Clem the winning the same process. The national lambing funds. I didn't know that until yesterday. I think it's really good. We came up with some recipes for work to advocate and that he'd be happy given fog countries. Do you think this click snap process is worth in ongoing dialogue with the same people these rooms to come back on annual basis of two years. Yeah, that's sort of our plan. And we don't wanna keep it limited to the sixteen countries that are represented here. We actually wanna bring in more W countries. We have over a hundred offices. Eventually everyone needs to go through a process like this. So we hope in the future our meetings will continue to grow, and we continue to learn from one another I guess the ideas over the next few years through twenty twenty that will be rolling this out across entire network. Gavin jealous senior marine conservation officer for climate change in rentals for WF Malaysia. What did you think of the workshop? I I thought it was wonderful for myself because I'm trained for climate change assessment. And this workshop provide us dues on the way to make our strategies much more focus on climate change impacts. What did you think of the workshop structure in regards to how it was managed? And what the activists that you did it was really fun. I thought Sean of works that have been to his very detailed, you know, really doing to the nitty gritty of tragedies. But for this particular workshop, it's fund. That's how facilitators actually allow you to. Chiefs of jettison workshop identified very fun way, a set from having a Bill to commend distracted other countries, which you actually learn from other countries also get feedback from them about your particular strategy. So from that particular platform actually enables me to hey, the things that I need to go back and learn about it and also, hey, also lend from other countries. So I like it a lot this particular structure. So you have some interesting stories or information until about turtles and climate change. If if you could elaborate on that. Yes. Shit in Malaysia we we actually home to some of the largest population in southeast Asia. We have the green and the hospital, which is the most common species in that region to one particular story was that actually we can see actually adapting to change example, one of the threats to marine turtles is the erosion of its nesting beaches. So it can be really steeped for them to come. But we thought that if. Erosion happening in the beaches will be less nesting. But it seems that even though it is eroding was still trying to come up and s in that nesting. We finally actually go in Ness in that particular area so apart from humans, we can see some species, I already slowly finan- mechanism away to adapt to commit change. So, but they're successfully nesting they'll nest and they'll lay the eggs in the eggs will hatch. That's all happening. Yes. All happening. Yes. Indeed. So you writing about this republishing that I'm sure there's I'm from Florida, and there's a lot of sea turtles there. I don't know this deficiencies, I not a researcher, but you go to the beach, and you see the the net. And so I haven't heard of anything about that sort of adapting, but I'm not following very closely. But are you is W W F publishing materials because I think that'd be very interesting for a lot of people around the world. We actually have activities monitoring the the beaches in terms of how eroding the beaches are. And then the temperature of the Seine where they actually XL we are currently have working on ground people collecting, those kind of data. So we indeed wanted to publish that to shed it to other areas that hey, this anti grabs can learn from this particular country. Hate actors. We are back from our trip to Kenya. And I'm back here with Sean Martin. And I I just want to give my observations about that workshop, I feel really lucky that I got to go there in person and talk to all these folks in witness what they were doing some takeaways from the workshop for me is that I thought there was a lot of positive energy. I've been to plenty of workshops where people are checking out halfway through the workshop. I think a lot of the W have staff were curious on what was going to happen at this workshop, and I got to interview them at the beginning. But I think they're enthusiasm maintained throughout the entire workshop and actually adopted conservation. It's not easy. There's not a lot of guidance on that. And I think that the people participating this workshop, I think at the end of it really felt they had some practical advice that came out of it. I think they really liked the structure that you set up for the independent of the content. Just how you kept people engaged. I was very innovative. And I wasn't even the participating that much. And I enjoyed it a lot. And so well done, Sean. I'm curious your thoughts on what happened at that workshop? Yeah. Going back and listening to some of the interviews. You did I did notice a lot of people are saying seeming to have a good time. And no I've been to my fair share of boring workshops, and I just noticed that if people aren't engaged in having fun at workshops, they're not motivated to go back and move forward. So I worked very long and hard to make sure that you know, we use long breaks and had toys at their tables and most, you know, had very few presentations, a lot of it was interactive discussion, and that's all by design to make sure that people are enthused and motivated, and they went home and tried out. The click snap process. I'm also was really pleased with how we came up with some six essential elements of climate smart conservation, and our employees those in our our strategies. Now. Okay, sean. So we had the opportunity to go back a couple months later after the workshop in check in with some of the participants in seeing how their click snack, journeys progressing. What's going on with that? So I we're going to hear again from Kate temperament who kind of open the episode. She works in Vietnam, and she's going to talk about the process there. And then we're going to hear from Melissa the cock from WWF Norway. She gave a presentation to click snap community on Skype. Call and you'll learn about how the process went to Wf Norway. And then you'll hear some of our staff asking questions, and then finally we'll hear from nail the bottom onto Seino's and muddy on Chavis from wwltv Mexico to talk about how things have been going there. Okay. Let's dive right in. Yeah. I came back from the workshop, and the the first thing we did was we had a climate and energy practice planning day. And I gave it very quick overview of what clicks is in. What's important? I think there was some concern in that meeting initially around real impact verses whether we were getting stuck on semantics and about the design in Vietnam management to ensure that if we're gonna do this senates not just soup efficiently taking box in changing some leads, but it's actually going to be impactful in useful outlook. I was introducing the climate's not language by still not bracing page shown gave us during the workshop. And I think that sort of was the wrong approach to introduce the PayPal because it didn't give comprehensive enough introduction. At the beginning. Kind of created this debate around semantics challenges reflect gender. Streaming. It's another thing we have to integrate into work, but is actually gonna have an impact into how actually go about as strategy planning. And what the outcomes our calm. So then we had the freshwater oceans climate edgy practice. We had stopped come from Hershman city way field of. And I think the that day was presented much more a conversation an introduction to the concepts in Pacini to share experiences. And I think it was Rana beat than mini version of the Nyby web show. And I think the generally paper were very orphans to the idea into learning and the practice leads they require interested. But in that workshop, we didn't actually go into the most civic assessment of the strategies, which we had done in the second stage of the Nairobi workshop where we actually read through the strategies provided critiquing important to where they may not be climate's not. So then the. The sort of third thing that's happened. Since the holiday training days will be there was a strategic planning meeting in her treatment city for our freshwater. Teamin included the food practice laid emanate consideration director is well, they had an agenda item on click snap, and that was really about discussing had integrate clicks now into strategy work because very much in the middle of strategy development work at the moment. And I think in in that meeting. There was some challenges around the reactions were really around the question of how to practically integrate into the planning process when developing conceptual model, so the fate back that I got was they were coming across some difficulties in losing focus, even for example in some areas. You may say some people may have regarded the human threat swift potentially sane is more significance in a hierarchy of threats than climate change and by focusing on the climate integration or analysis of climate threats into that strategy. There was some concern that will losing getting bit lost and losing sight of what needed to be a priority. That was kind of one challenging aspect that has come up. I take the single biggest challenge at the moment based on the introductory work with done to click snapped with the staff is really about building understanding now of how he practically integrate it because there is support. Management does recognize that it's important and staff generally. But then how to take it to that? Next step is a little bit difficult. I just wanted to mention brags Empel in the workshop there was some really useful examples provided by Mexico's experience. I think that was helpful for us to be out. Our fishy was an example of how they integrated from the beginning of the strategy work. So yeah, we would thinking more examples like that would be as well. Sukey you. It sounds like you're going to be leaving WWF relatively soon in based on your experiences. Are you optimistic that the process that you've been involved in will survive once you've left in you know, what are new encouraged about in? What are you concerned about? I am often sick that it will continue because I think the stuff in the climate Nanji practice pain who would be lading really say valuing it Mike concerns that I think there's a few things that remain to be saying while this support for the climate spotting process. I think that when you try to integrate it into a long already complex strategic planning process and with people who are very busy. It's difficult to say whether that is going to be prioritized. But I think the the main concern Barry, contributing to that is that it really requires somebody to push. Internally and that's impacted by stuff cities. But I also think having been through the the Nairobi workshop is a massive asset. I three quarter of a day training to everybody. But, you know, I'm new to some of these concepts as well, sir. I found the Nairobi workshop really really valuable in a way that I think is it's kind of unique to coming from the click snap conveyance. I'm sure it's music to show years but just follow question. Is there anything else that could have been done differently at the workshop to make your experience more productive? I mean, which they have done any differently. I don't really have any criticisms I've angel a lot of workshops in the last year. And I thought it was really good, and I felt a little bit lack. Yep. Quite on board with click snap almost. I don't want us to fries. I drank the Kool aid. But I think going back to the office. I was really quite convinced the importance, and I I was really excited. I find the worker. Interesting, and I felt pretty driven to actually I guess share it with colleagues, and I think that was in pot because the workshop was really enjoyable, and there are a lot of tash paper working on interesting s- than that got to say to that kind of helps to build your excitement and momentum is law. You're allowed to say that the coffee was awful. Bad about that. I'll be quick with three or four slides to talk through with very sort of new to the process of kick snapping the conservation strategy. I took him through kick snap. What it is. Why we doing it? As reminder. I then went through some of the information about what exactly is climate smart conservation, and then how to climate smarter conservation strategies, and what climate risks were and how we needed to look out for them. I'll get to to what what happened during that process. But it was very interactive process where a lot of people also love questions, which was very useful. I encountered a couple of challenges in the discussion the first one was that some people feel that going through the strategy and strategic objectives just to change. The wood was just to meant in a what difference does it make if we change the wording, and I had a long discussion with him as to how the wood. Smith was actually just a way of creating awareness and getting us to think outside of our normal. Straightforward conservation work in a win. We Ryan goals and strategies we just fool into the habit of using conserve preserve secure. And that the woods missing was really just to make us think of it more about what it is. We actually would trying to do with climate lanes on it the other one that I found which was I was a little surprised that was people seeing at tation as giving up on mitigation that they put it, you know, if we're still going to do mitigation, and then we do at attention, isn't that giving up on on the mitigation battle. And it's it's really a an ongoing discussion to make people understand that even if we stop all emissions today climate change. It's still going to happen and was still going to have to debt. We're ready having to dent now. So we're going to have to adopt in future. And it's just it's just really about having ongoing discussions with people at saying, we're not giving up on mitigation. It's not an either all we have to do both. The other issue was the project based versus the mainstream. A lot of people seem to want to leap into actual standalone projects rather than thinking about how they need to integrate climate change into their existing work. So that's also an ongoing challenge that we we have to tackle. So what I've discovered, and I think most people will know these lessons that we can't assume that everyone gets the need for attention. You know, thankfully, there's been a lot of ability of light about how adaptation has to happen. But people stole don't really think about abdication in day to day work. So providing rational for it talking them through White's not giving up on mitigation, it's really an ongoing task. You can't assume that you can do to discussions. And everyone's just gonna do what we think needs to be done. Also in terms of the woods Smith. We need to show the clear path from wordsmith in the strategy to actual implementation of climate smart strategy that it's not just about doing the plan putting it on the shelf and continuing businesses usual, it's actually about walking the talk and end the longest sort of lesson was that again, it's it's not a once or you've got to provide that ongoing support you've got to provide ongoing reminders about integrating attention and that hopefully at some point down the line. Everybody is going to get it and do it. But I think, you know, at one point we sort of hope that we wouldn't have to have an adaptation focal point to promote the ongoing integration. But it looks like this position will be needed for while because otherwise people just forget about it and get on with their usual work. Thank you. That was it. Thank you, Melissa John. Okay. Thank you very much. Nisa? It's John Morrison. I had a question when you get to the climate risk looking at climate risks. Will you be looking at a range of uncertainty that the various climate models that are going to show, and are you going to be using scenario planning? Those are my two questions. Thank you. It's going to it. I mean, the initial brush stroke that I envisioned will be a lot more superficial in that. It went be the climate risks for predators of their prey will move north. And they will struggle to find food on this. They move north, but the concrete from those because of habitat or something like that would not really going to go into the other going to be more Harte's authentic for more ways things like that. But just to sort of very broad brush what what are the risks to our particular targets down? The mindset I would very very keen to get into slower planning. I think. That's a really important and useful tool in climate change. But for this first brush approach that I'll have to have done by next year. In fact, by February next year, it's just going to be very sort of top level stuff where thank you. I will take the question from availow that will move onto Ghia. Thanks, my ten. Hello everyone. My question is around the challenges that you had lied to the last point where you saying project based business mainstreaming, and I didn't quite hear your views on that. Because a musket this since it tops to basically our approach from this offer Ken side, where we are saying, Kevin, let's focus a lot on projects on the ground as opposed to Cussing most of our energy on the mainstreaming of bringing in the climate risks into our conservation strategies. Okay. Thanks. How much personal view is that as a first step should focus on making for our existing conservation strategy is climate spot. Which means we need to mainstream climate in to all our existing work like the kid to program that turn Nydia working on you need to think about how climates going to fix those communities on wildlife because it doesn't matter how much illegal wildlife trade he stopped. If you know the rivers can still flowing than the watts gonna go away, we take a huge risk on investment. And on achieving stated goals, if we don't mainstream climate into our existing conservation strategies. But then on the other hand there are a lot of funds for standalone at tation. So I think if we have the capacity we should certainly do that work because that shows proof of concept to the disbelievers about at attention. It helps us work with government. It helps us secure livelihoods for communities and improve presents ecosystems, but we should never sacrifice mainstreaming for doing projects. We have to make sure that I'll conservation strategies are climate smart in order to achieve office skulls. And then we can also do project is my personal opinion. Now, that's that's a good one. Thanks for that response. Thank you. That was great. As you for the good discussions is exactly. The kind of discussions. We want this video practice. Hi, this is in Amec, the coordinator at the Mexico. Hi, m leanna Chapas and on the Imani coordinator book NL, I'm curious in. We've talked to other countries that are going through this process. And most of the time the example is at maybe there's a culture of people just wanna do this new thing. They already are doing what they're doing. And why do they need to do add up take? In this climate smart work at offers, these new ways of doing things, but has anyone ever should've asked you something that you're like, well, I'm not quite sure I remember at the moment that kind of situations. The first thing I noticed with with the technical staff. A when we try to introduce these concepts and dry to formalize their thinking about plasma change is that they have another of taboos or prejudice about climate change. So they thing about insert that the think about information that thing about a it is not important enough to pay attention to the last which is very presidents. I don't have enough time to take vase. But I think we would with a lot of effort will of time we were with each of these barriers to start like thinking about that matching more open and open way. But we need to systematize the way way. Think about Mariana as an observer of this process that need Nells doing. Can you offer your own insight to how this has unfolded? Has there been any pushback? Yes. Sure. And yet definitely nannies leading this as the expert on here at the office, and I'm more of a helping when it's needed the interesting thing for me that I'm more in touch with the people on the ground conservation area, and I can see they take climate change into account because they see every day it's events they are constantly having to deal with, but they don't necessarily are making the link between that and including on the strategic plan, and such you missed the Nairobi workshop. It was really great meeting and Mariana really enjoyed the hot chicken gizzards at the served during morning coffee. That was such a great. Get coffee. I seriously now in this is for both of you those what has happened in Mexico since the workshop. Well, we'd be very well on deliver. I always Materia. But after that, it is like with any deadline ah people rest after laugh, so we nothing that in our next conservation staff in needing like realizing that people are not showing progress on on working with this strategic planning and also like working on defying light specific activities related to climate adaptation. So just to give you an example of what would happen about a month ago or a little less? We had a meeting with conservation staff for each area to present their annual warplanes, and when one of the areas started to present their work plan. He he started saying a lot of things that are not climate smart. Or using the words we're not supposed to use in. You can imagine nails eyebrows. Dividing higher and higher and higher. So we we had that been the reality check where we're not sure if people were if they're does not remembering what we mentioned before. Or maybe they're just easing a a older version of the strategy yet. We talked about it at Annette what had this idea to to address our CEO when and get he to talk to the staff in until them. How important they say? We're is not only us to pushing them to do something that they don't see the point for now. But it's also a our CEO coming from the top saying this is important because this will help us get to somewhere in the future on also we not desert that some of the staff is still saying that that GATS Martin work is my work vague response. Heavy so we have to work a lot with that idea do because it is a an, and I think it happens with many. Would many copies. I mean, there's some expert of that topic. And why why do I have to border to start looking for information understanding, a nitrile to be very clear that that our role is supportive role in real climate modernisation? It is not made by single person that knows everything and do the whole job. It is more like about be linked as these a along the whole staff, and they will be able to manage to to respond for climate change risk in their daily work because I'm not the one who is doing the the most important conservation work in India office. So we we are now like thinking about how to the with those arrears, and we have come up with some strategies to that in that situation where someone says, oh will this is your role in responsibility in making you kinda dig in maybe two specific example with someone. Yes, I think this has to has to let. Also with arrays we mentioned at the beginning. I mean when you start like talk with people in terms of like make them realize that plasma smart approach is not very sophisticated that you do need to have PHD the made to read like fifteen papers too. I mean, it's more like a thing of attitude that taking the right approach because this is very they had like, no not a never to be as expert as you will. Because I have not invest years knowing all these issues, and I think the first thing to say is that is is it is amazing. And you are perfect able to do that within within two months within six months. You have to a lot of effort, but it is not like a rocket scientist things. So there's a wrong interpretation of what we're expecting them to do. One step. We are working with marina. I think is very -able for valuable. For me to having heard in in in the team is that I am very familiar with the concepts and with topics and for me, it's like come on. Why don't you understand? Unmodern apob now is not that easy. Perhaps we have to read this is way or this way. And for me. I mean, I do not consider myself. I'm expert I'm loud notable about the topic. So for me now at this point is difficult to see why they don't get so Madden Nuys helping a lot with that. And to try to make things even simpler. I mean, if we went to via leaders in conservation, we need to into red cat much inches about leadership as renovation unethnical stuff. This is why we're very good team. We have the. So Sean, we just heard from three WWF offices on what they have done since the click snap workshop in Nairobi. What do you mean? Takeaways from what we heard a first of all after listening to these four women, I am incredibly honoured to the opportunity to work with them. And I'm really proud of what they're doing saving nature is never been easy climate changes making it that much more difficult. We've heard some of the challenges facing in getting some of their colleagues on board. But they're not giving up shifting the paradigm of how we approach conservation isn't enormous task. And what's happening in some of the offices really gives me hope that WWF is moving in the right direction. So are there any common themes that emerged from these discussions that make you want to make some revisions to the process WWF is developing. Sure, the one obstacle everyone ran into was using the red flag words words like preserve protect conserve as a way to identify where work is at the greatest risk to climate change. And we really wanted this. To be a fairly simple exercises away to get people to question the viability of their conservation goals and to rethink how they might make their goals. More open ended inflexible, but a lot of people seem to think this was just a rather pointless exercise in semantics, so we're going to have to make some changes there to make sure that people understand why we're doing all this in the first place, but there's some other takeaways as well, I think we learned just how crucial supporters from leadership without some kind of mandate from the top. This work is really hard to sustain. And we also heard the importance of not doing this alone. Almost all of our offices have just one single at uptake officer to try to get everyone else on board. And I think one of the reasons why Mexico's been successful is because they have a partnership Nell and Madonna are working together and supporting each other and learning from one another I think that's really important. And finally, we heard from many of our staff how much they appreciated the approach WWF, Mexico is taking they didn't do long planning. Workshops. They didn't use a lot of heavy science up front. They just had simple one hour conversations with their colleagues to talk about what they're already seeing in their work, and how climate changes are affecting it. So putting the conservation experts in the driver seat and empowering them to use the knowledge that they already have. I think is really powerful way to get people started down this path. That's great. This whole process has been great. I it's been an honor for me to be part of it. But what's next for click snap? So we're gonna take all this learning. And I'm currently writing some guidance for our office to us, and we're going to keep learning from each other. As we move forward. We're going to have regular calls like you heard from Melissa and our colleagues earlier, and we're going to have regular check ins strengthen our community of practice, and we're also going to expand the number of offices. Participating click snap Wf brazil-cameroon and memoir have already joined this year and hoping to also get Wf US onboard twenty nineteen and finally we really need. To focus on what's happening with the national adaptation plans, pending on how countries help there people adapt climate change. Naps could become yet another threat to conservation. And by working with governments in the add up planning process. We're really hoping to create new opportunities for nature. Okay. Sean. So the journey of this podcast is almost over. So any last final thoughts while the journey of the putt cast is almost over but the ad uptaken journey. Never ends. I really hope your listeners whether they're working in conservation like me or urban planning or at some company or really in any field. Enjoyed this episode and taken away some ideas that can use their own work. And I really hope they'll share their experiences with you in your audience. The only way we're going to adapt to get out there and try stuff. Learn from her successes and our mistakes and share what we learned with others. And that's really what motivated me to do this episode. Okay. Adapters that is a wrap. What in epic episode? I hope you enjoyed this worldwide adaptation adventure. Thanks to Sean Martin for including America dabs in this process. I feel like I need to do an episode on just the making of this episode so much went into this. We've been working on this episode for eight months, thanks again to everyone at WWF participated. I feel very lucky I got to start this process off at their Kenyon workshop, and then I had a dish conversations with WWF staff from all of the world, I was Skyping early in the morning with people from the Philippines, Madagascar Mexico, South Africa. Sometimes it was hard to keep track of what time zone. Everyone was in as I said earlier, even if you aren't doing outpatient and conservation, the lessons learnt here are applicable to so many other sectors figuring out how to bring adaptation into your existing work isn't easy. There are so many obstacles to bring a new approaches to things I hope what you heard here can help you as you work in your diverse at obtain field. Share this episode with your co workers share it with your boss. Let them know there are pathways to add up patient in your existing work groups are working on this. But it will take effort in innovation. Thanks again WWF. Okay. Just a reminder America dad's charitable organization, and it's the end of the year in America dads, needs your support, please consider giving a tax deductible donation you can find links to the we did at donate page in the show notes. Also, if you're interested in sponsoring specific podcast or having me speak at a public or corporate event. Please reach out I've been doing some keynote presentations in there are a lot of fun share stories from the podcast and my own experiences in adaptation, you can contact me the website, America, dabs dot org. Also, I hope you learn from this episode. I do sponsored podcast. Maybe there's an adaptation store, you need to tell and want to reach a huge network of adaptation professionals, please reach out and learn more. All right. Don't forget the joined the Facebook page in the Facebook community group, the group is private but. Just search for America dabs and asked to join all approve right away. There's some great insider conversations that go on there. Okay. On that note. I love hearing from you. I mean, it just say hi, if you have an idea for guests, let me know seriously. It is the highlight of my week when I hear from you guys. I get random context all the time. It's awesome. I'm at America at gene dot com to an okay, check out the website at America, Depp's dot org. Again, just look down at the show notes, especially that linked to the donate page. Okay. Adapters keep up the great work. I'll see you next time.

World Wildlife Fund Sean Martin Kenya Cape Town Mexico John Martin Dan ash Philippines Uganda United States WWF South Africa Jacob Vietnam Mekong Kate Vietnam America Skyping
Food Expiration Dates May Mislead Consumers

60-Second Science

03:02 min | 1 year ago

Food Expiration Dates May Mislead Consumers

"This is scientific Americans sixty seconds science. I'm jared Rizzi best before sell by for for best results use by you probably have many of these labels on items in your fridge and Pantry right now a lot of behavior on what what you throw away and how you consume food a lot of people go off what's on the label and so what we're looking at is trying to shift behavior trying to make consistency in terms of how are labelled so that we can avoid waste and avoid people throwing away products that are perfectly good to eat pete. Pearson Pearson is the senior director for food loss and waste at World Wildlife Fund seventy percent or more of the biodiversity loss on the planet is attributed to Food and agriculture. The Natural Resources Defense Council estimates that forty percent of all food in the United States goes uneaten that that translates to some two hundred eighteen billion dollars in wasted money annually beyond the hit to the wallet food waste in landfills creates methane tain which is a more potent greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide and these figures don't include a full accounting the accumulated waste producing and transporting in food that we don't eat water and fertilizer maintenance of animal habitats and fuel and often because of labelling and consumer behavior we throw throw it away and it's still perfectly good to eat another part of the solution could come from the bipartisan food date labeling act which would expand spanned federal standards on expiration dates from just baby formula now to most everything else. The bill is making its way through Congress and could streamline line what you see when you're shopping part of the goal to reduce customer confusion what they're trying to do is introduce a series of binding federal enroll standards in some cases this is done by states and local jurisdictions and so what you have is a big confusion and inconsistency in terms of language the the House bill recommends a label of best if used by for when a product's quality or freshness may start to worsen and then use by for when it's definitely definitely time to get rid of it and Pearson recommends well a little bravery so I've found as as food waste leader and the director of a program program. I find that I'm eating a lot of foods that most people probably wouldn't end. We need more food waste warriors. We need people that are willing to cut the mold off at cheese or scrape some falls out of the sour cream because it's not going to detract anything from the actual product and you will survive. You're not GonNa die and when you're GonNa Save Food and help save the environment the process thanks for listening for scientific Americans sixty seconds of science. I'm jared Rizzi.

Pearson Pearson jared Rizzi United States Natural Resources Defense Coun World Wildlife Fund senior director Congress director sixty seconds two hundred eighteen billion d seventy percent forty percent
NPR News: 04-21-2019 4AM ET

NPR News Now

04:57 min | 1 year ago

NPR News: 04-21-2019 4AM ET

"Support for this podcast and the following message. Come from American pest as the leading provider of safe sustainable pest control solutions across the DMV. Let American pest help you to take back your home or business. From menacing pests. Visit them today at American pest dot net. Live from NPR news in Washington. I'm Nora raum. Officials in Sri Lanka report near-simultaneous explosions in six locations this morning, causing panic and confusion. Three of the blast went off in churches filled with Easter Sunday worshippers bombs also exploded in three luxury hotels in the capital Colombo, Sri Lanka state, run newspaper reports at least one hundred twenty nine people were killed at least four hundred others reported injured. The small southeastern European country of Kozo has repatriated more than one hundred citizens who are members of the Islamic state in Syria to kisses reports that European countries intend to punish the jihad 'as, but they don't know how to de radicalize their wives and children. The US military helped co civil bring back one hundred ten Islamic state members who were in prison camps in Syria. Those returnees are now imprisoned in an army barracks near close foes capital Pristina chief of police Russia had collage told reporters that only four or former fighters. The stock other than me. There are also thirty two women. He sat in seventy four children nine of whom lost their parents in the war Costa, VO declared independence from Serbia in two thousand eight and identifies. As ninety percent Muslim, though society is secular more than three hundred citizens of Costa VO have joined Islamic state since twenty twelve for NPR news. I'm Joanna kakissis. Community members gathered at a remembrance ceremony near Columbine high school in Littleton, Colorado last night, NPR's Amy held reports they're honoring the thirteen people killed in a school shooting twenty years ago. That's music played by current Columbine high school students in the chamber orchestra. They were not yet born on April twentieth. Nineteen ninety nine but principal Scott Christie says the attack that left twelve students and one teacher dead has changed. The school's culture today. Victims can find some cheese in the good that has come out of evil April. Twentieth is now a day of service students staff and others volunteer at homeless shelters or do tours at the homes of senior citizens. Amy held NPR news in Kansas zookeeper is in stable condition with less rations after a tiger attacked her yesterday at the two big zoo. Zoo director Brennan Wiley says she was mauled by Sumatran tiger named Sanjiv in an enclosed outdoor space. Sanjiv did exactly what a tiger wood when something comes into territory, and there is absolutely no consideration to euthanize. Jeez. Cement retires are rare species. The World Wildlife Fund fund says there are fewer than four hundred alive today. This is NPR news. Federal authorities say they've arrested the leader of an armed group that has been stopping migrants crossing into the US from Mexico. The sixty nine year old suspect is charged with being a felon in possession of a firearm officials have been warning private militias to stop policing, the border French police say more than one hundred people are in custody in Paris after a twenty third Saturday of yellow vest, demonstrations, NPR's ofeibea, Quist arcton reports. Police in full riot gear. Lobbed tear gas canisters at protesters. The around the emblematic plus did out People's Republic square in Paris was thick with smoke as yet demonstrated settled this way and jittery riot. Police fired teargas got Helene. Come. You was not wearing the trademark reflective yellow vests of the protesters, but says she's very much part of the demonstrations against president Emmanuel McColl, it's time to speak. It's. It said in the half of people descend unison. Multi, I guess and it's time to move. As far as a cease Ripley commu says, she hopes president McCall is listening or February was talked NPR news Paris protests continued in London yesterday by demonstrators demanding the government do more to combat climate change. Authorities say they arrested more than seven hundred fifty protesters. The protesters are demanding the government reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Two zero by twenty twenty twelve I'm Nora raum. NPR news in Washington.

NPR NPR Nora raum Columbine high school Sri Lanka Paris US Washington Amy Helene DMV Sanjiv Syria Costa VO Pristina Colombo World Wildlife Fund Joanna kakissis Scott Christie
Why don't nations trust NGOs?

Stuff They Don't Want You To Know Audio

1:04:15 hr | 9 months ago

Why don't nations trust NGOs?

"This episode of stuff. They don't want you to know is brought to you by move. DOT COM MU DOT COM online print design company specializing listening custom premium print products. They're passionate about great design. The difference it can make to customers around the world have special finishes like gold and silver foil letter press and raise spot gloss that allow you to add extra dazzle shine and texture for your business cards and other materials to truly stand out but don't take our word for it try it out today for a limited time you can use the code stuff for fifteen percent off everything at mood dot com again. That's mood dot dot Com Promo Code stuff the richest most powerful place on our of fiction. podcast on an epic scale powders. Everything Pollard gives everything we have to get away from this place Hooman by his destiny now on the. I hope podcast network to listen to all episodes of Tumor Bay Seasons One and two now for free on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts from. UFO's to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn the stop. They don't want you to know. Production of iheartradio's. How stuff up works? Hello welcome back to the show. My name is Matt. I name is day. Call me Ben. We're joined is always with our super producer. Paul Mission Control Deck and most importantly a you argue. You are here and that makes this stuff. They don't want you to know in today's episode. We're revisiting a topic. We picked up in two thousand fourteen both as a video and as a short audio podcast. This is this is something that may be controversial to some people. It may be personal to some of US listening today as we're going to do our level best as always to stay objective we're talking about non-governmental organizations the street name NGOs most of us are vaguely aware of these institutions and oddly enough enough they're defined by what they are not rather than what they actually are there just non-governmental the whole definition is the thing that they are not in the name and that's tricky because this is an umbrella term it encompasses everything from you know the Red Cross the Red Crescent to Greenpeace from the world wildlife fund onto Oxfam and so many many many many more and typically these organizations are going to focus on a distinct set of concerns or problems. uh-huh right human rights equality or fighting dysentery. It's usually the kind of stuff every human being can get behind. You know solving living world hunger philanthropy. Yes saving the cute animals doing the right thing. I always confused philanthropy with philandering. Those aren't the same thing are they in in a way the both mean lover men. Let's true lover of humanity is true I- i- confuse them as well. I NGOs are all about distribution and it might surprise many of us Especially people who've donated to one cause or another might surprise to learn that NGOs are not squeaky clean and as you. Toby as their proponents would have us believe. In fact many people a growing number of people will argue that these institutions nations and organizations are at the very least disingenuous. Maybe even evil. We'll get to that but first things first. What exactly is this term were throwing around? What is an NGO here are? The facts are old pals at the Oxford English dictionary Have a fabulous definition edition for what an NGO is they define it. As a nonprofit organization that operates independently of any government typically one whose purpose is to address a social or political issue and in fact the term non-governmental organisation was created in article. Seventy one of the charter. Sure of the United Nations in Nineteen forty-five And that's when a select club. I guess you could call it of international non state agencies were given observer status to some of of this bodies meetings yes so that means instthat. Let's just make up an example. Let's just say the Red Cross is now allowed to hang out in the room. During during meetings that might Might be applicable to its mission to save lives. They don't get to vote because they're not countries yes they can maybe make some speeches right but the big thing is the do not have voting power and there are other entities that have observer status us in the United Nations. This is different because that select group of organizations and institutions that were allowed to be called. Non Governmental Organizations. Were already very very politically connected. They were already kind of in the room. Now the just get the name drop the official designation nation but again like you said no they are addressing social or political issues. The only common factor. That these this this original regional group had back in forty five was that they were not government agencies and they were technically businesses. They weren't making money hand over fist or if they were that was a secondary aim will. There isn't the idea that they're nonprofit or not for profit right geos. Like that's the whole one of the major points right. Now they can distribute money. Yes I'm very hinted distribute. Today they can distribute money or funding to take donations and take donations of course from any number of donors But they're not supposed to keep it in rural it over there supposed to invest in their mission and so originally the UN said. Okay you're you'RE GONNA be a advocating for human rights. You're going to be advocating for the environment. Ah or quote unquote development. Another umbrella term. That can be very tricky. So Ngo really can be any kind of organization so long as it's Extensively independent from government influence. And as you said Matt is not for profit there are a ton of the now and they're just gonNA keep GROWING YEAH IF YOU CHECK OUT NONPROFIT ACTION DOT ORG and this is a group that tracks the stats. That that pertain to NGOs. They estimate that there listen to this. Roughly ten million non governmental organizations worldwide. That are functioning and and I mean that's a lot right. You're if you think about that and has been mentioned they're not out there trying to make profit for things but they are trying to function and quote quote. Do good do some kind of social good so they are trying to get in as much money as they can through donations and as we'll see later other means look. Let's go to a fact here. In twenty eleven people donated one point two billion dollars to various non-governmental organsations and then just three years later by twenty fourteen that number had risen to one point. Four Billion Dollars so by twenty thirty this number number is expected to make the meteoric rise up to two point five billion so more than twice what it was in twenty eleven they are also so huge employers were talking about a gigantic mass of people Two quick examples there more than six hundred thousand NGOs in Australia Stralia and their employees make up eight percent of the Australian workforce while it does eight percent doesn't sound huge until you think of you know the fact that it's the entire nation and continent of Australia. What do you think that's Australia apart? Oddly enough not not that much The NGO industry is huge in the United States as well as Western countries part of part of the reason it seems so big is because again the term has so much leeway it encompasses so so much stuff you know one NGO can be doing something entirely different and irrelevant to the aims Rak titties of another NGO but get this this. If all the NGOs in the world were country they would have the fifth largest economy in the world. That's according to John Hopkins. They're here they're here to stay there growing you know as as you pointed out They are going to be at least a two point. Five billion dollar business within the next you know ten years and a ton of people worldwide depend on them both for employment and perhaps for some aspect of their lives. Whether it's from water being treated and cleaned in in some remote part of the earth. Were you know a shelter. Her being provided in created as in you know talking about development on the good side at least yeah right. We're throwing shade already already. Just remind everybody that you know we mentioned at the top here. A lot of people think these things are evil in a general sense. We're we're just making sure to point out that there is real good that is occurring. Yes the guy it gets to accomplish yet. So maybe we'll save some of this discussion for later. Hashtag tag not all NGOs yes and this becomes incredibly important as we continue because our big question is what do NGOs do. Their activities include but are are not limited to the stuff we just named environmental work advocacy human rights Social Betterment and sometimes this'll happen on a large somewhat abstract attract scale and sometimes it will happen very locally like this. Ngo is just providing this specific type of water pump to a specific region on a continent. Or we're just passing out life straws. That's what we're doing. Lifestyles are great by the way. They're incredibly reasonable if you don't have one and if if you Like me believe in building. Go bags for your home or your car. You need a lifestyle we talked about this. Why don't we have something I want you to know branded life Strauss? I would love that. The dog about we came up so you can like what. Drink out of like a puddle with one of those yes. That's pretty cool. Yeah I would do it. Just for the novelty of drinking out of a puddle title. The only I think the only problem is that they can't filter us some heavy metals so the according to the latest reports life straws are not as useful in the continental. US As we would have wanted to believe because the pollution is rampant a different episode. What Oh oh oh man different episode? So it's a that's a story for different. Abe NGOs are on the front lines in the trenches of combating these problems and making a world in twenty eighty five or world in thirty twenty. A place where people would still like to live zoo. The thing is they're not all created equally and they have different broad categories of the two big divisions are what we call operational NGOs and advocacy or campaigning rule NGOs they overlap but they are different entities so operational NGOs actually have to mobilize resources in in the form of their financial donations Things like raw materials Volunteer Labor So that they can. Actually you know keep keep these projects and programs going. It's a really difficult and complex process. A lot of moving parts and these NGOs usually have some kind of H. Q.. You a a built in bureaucracy and all kinds of support and field staff then you've got advocacy or campaigning. NGOs that carry out kind of similar alert types of activities but There's kind of a different balancing act that goes on between them You still have to raise money. Of course the name of the game for any NGO but on a much smaller our scale and it serves more of a symbolic function in kind of strengthening The identification with particular Taylor. 'cause that donors might have I mean it sort of goes into the whole idea of the Nah Not pure vanity. But there's something of a status symbol involved in participating in some of these NGOs and this kind of bolsters that so when you persuade people to donate time it becomes more valuable successful campaigning. NGOs I have the ability to kind of get large numbers of people to mobilize for very specific issues and types of events. Yeah the advocacy COSC- campaigning. NGOs are think of them as the raising awareness. NGOs have funding. WanNa keep the lights on. It's more important to us that we get people to Volunteer X. amount of days out of the year etc and these distinctions like a lot of on paper distinctions. Get real money when we go to the field field operational NGOs you know if if the impact of their projects doesn't seem like it's really moving the needle. Then they'll go of course they'll go into campaigning. Where are they gonNA say now? We don't do that here. And these operational NGOs especially the big ones always run regular campaigns. These are at least they support other affiliated organizations that are running campaigns and then sometimes on the other side NGOs. That are campaigning. NGOs I feel like they cannot ignore immediate real problems in their policy domain. So like if you are an NGO that wants to raise awareness and support report in society for Human Rights or for women's rights. Then you may say you know. The problem here is happening so blatantly. Recently it's so pervasive and we have the tools to fix it so we can't hold off. We can't just have a raise awareness dinner gala. We need to put the money Directly into assisting the victims of these crimes so they can they can trade back and forth or material that chameleon like and there are other. NGO's that specialize outside of these primary functions. Right there's a there's a whole other kind of arm of NGOs. It was called the research institute. You've probably heard of these before they're really grade. Were one of their primary things they do to increase knowledge and understanding and these you know will rain across the whole spectrum of course from those You know who are just looking to promote academics. The the the non-political political issues out. There that are going to help our world become a better place to then you know sending out information across the world or across a population for campaigning to get more money in right to then spread more awareness. So it's kind of just like a nice little cycle there of send some money so we can let other people know this. Cool the thing that you know. Now that you know who we are and think-tanks operate in this realm to Oh for sure right seriously your political affiliation. I know people hate to hear this but in this in this conversation your political affiliation does not apply does not matter. But we're about to tell you is very true. The majority of the time that a politician has a smart policy plan. It didn't come from them because they're typically not going to be professors. It came from. I don't think tanks came from NGOs. It came from places like Alec A. L. E. C. A.. In a lot of times these groups are on the ground somewhere that I have the best visibility for a problem or a big issue right absolutely which So it's we're not saying that's necessarily bad it's just perhaps a bit disingenuous when you get that Messaging from a politician. Wait a minute politicians or disingenuous. Say it so we kind of we all know this listen. We're all jaded to some extent at this point but it is. I think good just to know what you're saying. been that these NGOs. A lot of times have a heavy hand in policy-making absolutely I think to your point that They're able to be more specialized right so they can really have the the smarts specifically to deal with a particular problem like climate change or to really help develop a policy where every aspect has been fully thought out invented before You know these politicians politicians maybe shop around for what they consider to be the best form of that plan and then they go with the one that maybe has the best backing or the most Bona Fides right right or what. They're what they're masters allow them to endorse. which I know sounds super cynical? But you're right. It's not a bad thing. It's actually very very good thing that politicians lean gene on this expertise because you're pointing. All of these organizations are more nimble and they will tend to have a depth of understanding that can get lost in a big bureaucratic traffic machine. But okay so I know we're getting a little in the weeds here There is one great hilarious way to think of NGOs in in to differentiate them in. It goes like this Bingo Bingo Bingo Bingo and of course Quango love that band. We was Ingo twice Ingo e NGO and then I can go maybe even go okay. Yeah O N go in go go oh okay got can go bingo Bongo. Phyllis let's do these Radio Blanco right. Oh boy here we go just So somebody just Take take this from this moment on and you will have all the examples in audio format. Let's just go through them really quickly. So the real ones to SCO. Let's just go round Robin Shirt Deserve a one in particular you WanNa hit been of was BINGO stands for business friendly international. Ngo think of something like the Red Cross and Ango E. N. G. O.. That's an environmental. NGO think of Greenpeace perhaps the World Wildlife Fund. I'm torn between this being my favorite or the number number five but we've got gone go government organized non-governmental Organization such as International Union for Conservation of Nature. I'm sorry very government organized non governmental organization. I swear to you the real thing that just mean that means that blasted right past the government said okay. We're going to set aside money. We're going to give it to this place. We're going to start to your example the International Union for Conservation Nature. But then. So you know you all go ahead. Yeah take the money and run. And then we have INFO NGO an international NGOs like Oxfam and finally Congo. I love it a quasi autonomous Ngo an example here would be the international organization for Standardization Asian. Highly important thing I propose that we we start an NGO to change the pronunciation of Quango to Quango Just sounds so much more fun I feel like I know a guy there must. There's a guy who lives in our neighborhood somewhere whose street name is probably Quango. Then there could be the obvious Ted nugent tie in and call it Quango Tango there we go. I hope his last name's Tango Tango if you're listening that's cool. We were just in in Los Angeles and I always think of that road that Langa showing Yeah yeah that's an outlier. 'cause like sunset COSMO. Oh in someone in the back is just like W th probably as create significance to somebody somewhere. My favorite Los Angeles adjacent a name for a town is Rancho Cucamonga. Yes pretty fabulous. I feels fancy just here and it does so all of these things the the Bingo Lingo Congo in Indigo Quango. Ongo they all they all get their money from a couple of easily identifiable places or types of places aces membership dues. You're you're a member of World Wildlife Fund or whatever so every month or every year you give the money because you want wild animals hostesses. There'll be a thing when your kids grow up and you get a really fancy lovely calendar with private donations There's a there's a very clever everything that oh we'll go back to the second. The other two are the sale of goods and services. Right by this Mug by this t shirt a portion of the proceeds Blah Blah Blah and the other one is grants you apply to a government or another organization. They give you money to accomplish name going back to number two private donations. The very very clever thing about private donations. The me me me make me sound like a jerk to say is that it is not altruism for L. Philanthropist to donate sure maybe they want to help that because but they're also saving so much money in write-offs When they when they donate as much when they donate a portion of their own proceeds Minnesota? NPR and one of these well. It's definitely a a nonprofit. I wonder that's a good question. Because it receives so so much government money it does but it also does what you're talking about with the pledge drives and the private donations and also lots of grants air you know was funded by a grant from the Johnny. Johnny and Catherine T. Macarthur Foundation any Annie E. Casey Foundation the bill and Melinda Gates Foundation Zach. All the big. So even if it's not it's certainly functions in in a similar way to some of these NGOs that we're talking about absolutely and as big impure fans Both on the federal and regional level. We just want to say we know that you probably don't like doing. The pledge drives either so soldier onward. Folks do a great job. Yeah but Ben yes are these groups. They sound eerily similar to the special interests. People are always accusing politicians of pandering to. That's right it's absolutely right. Because they are special interests. Their special interest just happened to be extensively again on the surface benefecial I. You are absolutely not wrong long. They are very much special interest groups. I do want to do on a bus. The scam real quick while we're on the concept of private donations. This happens all the time. If you go to your local cool grocery store especially around the holidays you know you're ringing. You're buying magazines dog food and egg whites. I don't know whatever else shoe cleaner cleaner. I'm getting a real picture of your life than duct tape something to burn your fingerprints off. Whatever and then at the end of the transaction they say would you like to donate eight to this holiday joy to donate a dollar five dollars ten dollars right NASCAR right at the register very easy to say yes? Here's what's happening with. Those companies are taking that money that they're getting from individual grocery store customers. They're pulling it into you a single fund and they're using it to make large charitable donation that offsets their tax burden. So what. You're actually doing what you're actually doing. No you are helping people on the way but what. You're actually doing his pain that grocery stores taxes for them man. Kroger while you do me wrong like that I just. That's yes. I'm pretty sure that's what's going on. I would love to be wrong. I think that's called loophole. Then that's what they're found it but don't you feel like a jerk. Sometimes you want to donate and you say no you know. What do you say like? I don't want children to have toys. I think dog should just why. Yeah no I agree. I think the my problem just personally speaking personally here is that I am so embarrassed by the thought of denying a one dollar donation at any point when someone points at me and says would you like to donate. You're already paying. Just click this thing. I I have to say yes. So if you ever want to squeeze money out of me Just make it look like seem like a charitable donation and hit me while I'm doing a transaction. You view typically give handouts to panhandlers. I did for a long time. Then what happened Matt. Who Hurt you? I I just who I can tell you an actual story. I know yes. We're going to take a break. Jeez Paul he's staring at me during the throat is. We're going to go to break soon. I promise I I. I gave a gentleman in a wheelchair more money than I generally would. He got up and walked away didn't he. No he he. He took it like just snatched it from me and then just wheeled off really quickly but was very much just like I got away with it kind of thing. I don't know the way the way I felt afterwards and I also went to. I went to school Georgia state in downtown and I think it just the interaction that type of interaction occurs so frequently get numb to Kinda. Yeah well it's tough because if you want to truly help someone in that type of situation just handing ending them cash. That is transferable in. That moment probably isn't the best way to do it many times. That's going to be enabling. Perhaps behavior here that is already occurring but again I don't have all the answers. You know you one thing you can do is donate to an organization like ones that were talking about right. Yeah but then you don't really know exactly where your money's going and probably only a small portion of it is going to truly helping those people anyway boba perfect. That's fairly because what if there's more to the story behind these NGOs. Why do some governments want to ban non-governmental on governmental organizations and what if the goals of these organizations on paper are not their actual goals on the ground will will attempt to answer some of these questions afterward from our sponsor wars? So thanks for listening to this show. But there's another one you might enjoy. Ted Talks daily it features new ideas from Ted every weekday on pretty much any subject you can imagine. Recent talks include Astronomer Drama Mike Brown on the ninth planet that may be lurking somewhere in our solar system or a behavioral economists on why we all make such terrible decisions and a lot more you can find. Ted Talks daily on the iheartradio APP. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hey guys it's bobby be bones. I host the bobby bones show and I'm pretty much always sleepy because I wake up at three o'clock in the morning a couple of hours later I get all my friends together. We get into a room and we do a radio show show with our allies. We tell our stories we try to find as much good in the world if he possibly can and we look through the news of the day that you'll care about also your favorite country artists. They're always stopping by to hang out and share their lives and music too. So wake up with a bunch of my friends on ninety eight point. Seven W M Z Q in Washington DC or wherever the rotates issue on the iheartradio APP. Here's where it gets crazy so ooh like many of these talk about on this show Things are not always as they seem. There's a problem here it turns out that At least in a few cases folks are quite right to distrust NGOs in the way. That Matt had the inkling of A minute ago before the break Back in nineteen sixty seven. Mike Wallace The season television journalists. Yes yes CBS. Mike Wallace led an investigation into reports of C.. I. A. Front companies only to find that the CIA originally used front comes as a way to circumvent laws domestic and international alike For example the sixty seven investigation found that the CIA Was Functioning under the title the Bureau of Public Roads yet the CPR. So it's all kind of smokescreen so let's let's let's dig into this Starting with Intelligence Agency assets so really quickly before we completely jump in and just wanted to give everyone the tools to look at this if they want to on their own it was called. CBS News Special Report with Mike Wallace and the title was in the pay of the CIA. An American American dilemma. Yeah you can. You can watch the entire thing on youtube. We think it's very much worth your time. Also keep in mind that all the disturbing stuff you hear about in that investigation happen back in one thousand nine hundred sixty seven this is from the fifties sixties and CBS News one of the largest largest providers of information of a media company. They were the ones helming this investigation giving this information to the American in public. Here's what they found so. The CIA created front companies. It's not it's not explosive news anyone but the US these front companies to donate to legitimate charitable organizations Some of which existed beforehand right and some of which were also probably custom-made estimate Wallis characterized these charitable funds these institutions and foundations as part of the country's financial power structure and. He's very a blunt about it. Yes this is. These are large aggregations of private money. They're influencing policy and influencing culture with very few checks checks on their activities. Like when I check I mean checks and balances style very little oversight. And it's it's it's weird too because as is there tracing these things right give an example of something like the it was called the Granary Fund. Right and it's this. It's this organization that takes money in directly from the right and it's literally just money goes from the CIA to this thing called the grand refund and CBS News. Tried to track back down where this place was and they found that that it had an address in Boston Massachusetts at this one place in this one room or suite within that building they got up to that sweet and it was actually a law firm of Hemingway and Barnes and the person that actually signs all the checks in all of the financial and tax documents for this. This grand refund was one of the major guys there At at this law firm. WHO also happens to be part of the CIA if you look him up right? Who's WHO and who's who and then you realize that that grant refund is donating to all these other Funds you know like charitable organizations in true real life funds and then you realize that money that those is Brielle funds have is all mixed in with this money and we're talking about thousands and thousands of dollars this isn't chump change. And this is a great money money laundering exercise. You know what I mean are washes for schmucks and amateurs now. So isn't that extortion not extortion fraud. I mean if people are taking your the money and then it's just going into this imaginary smokescreen pot. What do you mean taking your money? You're talking about taxes you're talking about donations donation will in in this case it's the CIA funneling money taxpayer money into a fake account or a false company then that company is is donating to a real fund and those funds get distributed not individual donations that are just going off into space like it is taxpayer donations consensually. It's not at all right. I think I think the question I think the question here is are NGOs bilking individual donors right. Yes like Paul Sides. Oh Paul signs out for the International Institution for the Proliferation Liberation of Applebee's and they wanNA build applebee's in developing countries across the world and then he finds out that his you know two hundred dollar a year donations. Actually going to build Chili's or something like that. You like it if it's not. I think legally when you donate that money They can do whatever they want with it. And I think now I would like to see more oversight for charities because you can see all these sites rating charities on their trustworthiness and so on and there are a lot of other like predatory things that purport to be charities but aren't really just sound alike you know And and there are there to bilk people out of money. Here's the thing by donating through these front companies specifically other organizations innovations did this to the KGB in their time they were huge fans of doing this but by donating through front companies the CIA is muddying the financial waters making it increasingly scene. Difficult to track where this cash goes and again. It is taxpayer money and more importantly what is spent on. I mean it makes sense. Think of it this way. Let's say The four of us had you know no plans for the weekend and so we decided to destabilise a region of the world or promote regime change in a country but do geopolitical worries concerns norms laws. All that jazz. We cannot risk an open war. We can't send people in to depose the leader. We can't have a hot war on her hands. Heck we're at the point where you know. We can't even get intelligence agency. NC employees over the border as long as they are acknowledged to be intelligence agency employees. Because what we can do instead is get members of an NGO NGO over the border right. So now our operative Nat Frederick Matt what's Your spiny. cranberry vary sauce. Okay so Met cranberry sauce. Frederick operative cranberry sauce Can't get in but You know cranberry Matthews the member of the Red Cross or the Society for the betterment of the Pangolin can absolutely get into the country. I I think it's actually Berry Cranston Barry Chris Jericho and this Guy Cranston can if he's careful gather like-minded students from local. Universities disaffected youths the utes in areas with high unemployment arm them with weapons. Smuggled in by someone else most teachers them guerrilla tactics and boom you've got a quote unquote student union slash rebel force slash terrorist group and so back in Washington. Politicians can say we morally support the goals of this student union spreading freedom spreading democracy Morally support only we do not have an attachment to them. And that's when it goes to That's what goes the plausible deniability. The President may really think that somehow in a country where a guns are generally banned a bunch of college kids got together got armed with With military grade weaponry what started as a stand in or a sit down turned into a full scale rebellion. Right right right and suddenly just the they pulled out of the top hat of their asses. The Moser ass hats their assets. Thank you they. They pulled out the most effective protests in counterinsurgency techniques that the human civilization has discovered. They just made it up right. I mean gene. Sell me a bridge. That sounds so hypothetical been right at the. You know the ted talking here but this isn't a hypothetical scenario. This has happened in the past. This might be happening right now as we record this episode and dollars to doughnuts. It's going to happen again in the future much sooner than you think in that. CBS CBS special. They did specifically track. The grant refund donations that went through this little spider spider web of money flow. They tracked it to to specifically student union foundations that were operating internationally. So it's already ringing true. Yeah Yeah I mean. I don't want to vilify everybody. You know students students are doing things in. Grassroots groups are an important in part of Challenging authoritarian regimes. But sometimes they're not as grassroots as they appear to be and and it's it's a pickle for sure we actually have We have many many cases of NGOs and media outlets that are completely completely more or less independent. They're doing what they say on the label right. Unfortunately we have many examples of media outlets and NGOs is that are controlled infiltrated or manipulated by intelligence services again. This doesn't necessarily mean they're bad and it also doesn't mean we're we're GonNa talk about it right now because we're gonNA take a quick word from our sponsor. I just realized that the first letter of every line of this new spells helped me the it seems like everyone's a critic these days blessing the world with our slightest opinions all on our own mini platforms. I'm Scott Tannen bits. And I'm very calmly. This February tenth comes citizen critic a podcast where we critique the critic's review the reviews of everything from movies music and television to toasters posters toiletries and pink colors. We'll hear from the experts. Here's my review coldness and heartlessness or undermining today suspense movies. The and don't go see it zero stars as well as from all the citizen critics out there so we loved our experience here because I read all the reviews beforehand and did not stay. Hey eat dinner or officially tour here listened to citizen critic on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts. or or wherever you get your podcasts. The special thanks to that NGO that was sponsoring us from maybe not. It's all nation global unlimited. Doing God's work now wow that is a fine example of a non governmental organization. That's true that's just that's just an ano. Non Organizations a nine Oregon is a proud member of a non organization. It's true though that maybe over emphasizing this little but it's it's all to the good of course. The vast majority of people working at these organizations are not inherently bad. They're not members of spectre or something in in fact it's plausible. I mean it's almost certain that many many people within these organizations from volunteers to career staffers. I have no idea. There's any ulterior motive at play. You know what I mean. It's like you could work at the State Department and have no idea that the it guy down the hall is actually see a asset because he fixes your email. You know what I mean. Yeah is he. And that of course doesn't mean all NGOs. Those are currently fronts. We're even compromised mixed. You think does make you think. The collaboration between NGOs goes and intelligence services is kind of you know like Bill Cosby in Hollywood in the nineties. Open secret In twenty ten then Joe Mix Peden great a great name. For an agency official for international development in fact he launched a social media messaging networks in Cuba called Zun Zun neo That was very much resembling twitter and it was used by thousands of Cubans who were unaware. The project was actually designed to essentially infiltrate their their privacy the monitor communications to get a sense of what was going on on the ground there in Cuba according to the AP from two thousand fourteen it was also to stir up unrest within the country country by affecting the populace that was one of the goals of this thing. Whoops Or you know score which you know Yeah another example Ben. This was one of your favorites. Was the National National Endowment for Democracy or Ned which is funded by the US Congress. Yeah this comes to us from an investigative reporter named Robert Perry P. A. R. R. Y.. Perry writes that Ned National Endowment for Democracy took over as rule of influencing electoral outcomes into stabilizing label is in governments that got in the way of US interests. So do you have a left wing duly elected president. WHO's a little bit too Too Leftist this is this guy. Does this guy have the nerve to nationalize that country's resources their oil gas. They're heavy metals their timber or Tude dude alter the currency. That is being exchanged for those resources. Yeah you know what I mean. As far as it seems like as far as has the geopolitical apparatus is concerned people can burn flags all they want so long as they buy those flags with dollars. US dollars that's I mean you know there's a case to make that the real flag of a country is it's currency what was the name of the CAN. We did it episode earlier today. Ben And I on ridiculous history about Ernest Hemingway's younger brother who tried to declare a sovereign nation on a raft and he had a really cool name for the currency of New Atlantis Right. Scruples group will go because he thought wealthy people should have a lot of scruples. Yeah that's that's a true story but this this thing we're talking about destabilizing governments. Yeah that the United States specifically the CIA has an issue with but yes for various strategic reasons. It's just it's rough. That's the avenue you through which it's occurring through these supposedly. You know a good organizations that are trying to do good for a world. This is really bothering me guys. You're saying you just think it's inherently ICKY and wrong. If feels very achey it's so cloak I mean it is okay. It's so perfectly cloak and dagger I suppose and yet once want you'd think that once it's found out that this kind of thing is occurring. Let's say from those reports that nineteen sixty seven report worked from CBS. Once that's found out you'd think oh well maybe maybe that ended right. We figured that out there the world figured it out. It's over now. Yeah yeah that's the thing. I wish there were a better response than yes thing. That's a that's a big for me man yet Places like Ned organizations organizations like ned this kind of slush funds for foreign policy operations. That are a little that are not above the board. This is a prolific practice actus. And it's only a practice because it works. It's not like everybody chose a theme. Just for the sake of aesthetics there's undeniable proof that the CIA has conspired art and is likely conspiring as we speak to execute illegal campaigns in other countries using NGOs and charities as covers again not not necessarily the fault of the charities not the fault of the NGOs in fact. There's a case to be made that these innocent people may have their lives put in danger her. If one of these intelligence operations goes wrong but with this being such an open secret like you said and with that sixty seven investigation covering covering so much of this cloak and dagger surely you know. Sovereign nations are hip to this. And don't want this kind of influence infiltrating their borders Shirley we would feel the same from NGOs from other countries. You know masquerading behind this idea of do-goodery this veil right. Aren't there laws. That would prevent this kind of stuff from happening. It's a good question. There are a lot now Before we anybody in the more skeptical side of the audience relegates this to The land of alarmism and and Sensationalism in tin foil. Harry note that other world powers are very aware of this strategy have participated in it on their own own You can see again in that sixty seven investigation There's a little bit of what aboutism on the side of people who say yeah the CIA does do these dirty deeds under cheap to To to other countries but the other powers are doing the same thing like there's this Fantastic footage of a Russian organized huge concert. WHO's a blowout but it was? It was all to make the the great idea of Cold War communism more palatable and to make it cool it was a war for the hearts and minds and we also know that people take this seriously because many other countries have made laws explicitly banning NGOs foreign-owned Joe's from their borders. Amnesty International was a very interesting source on this. Because they're you know they're pro NGO what could go wrong right and they do great work they say. The governments across across the world are increasingly attacking GEOS by creating laws that subject them in their staff to surveillance bureaucratic hurdles and the ever present threat of imprisonment imprisonment and they have a lot of examples here too. Yes and we have a quote here from amnesty. International says in the past two years alone almost forty pieces of legislation interfere with the right to assemble and are designed to hamper. The work of of civil society organizations have been put in place or are in the works around the world. These laws is commonly. Include Implementing Ludicrous registration processes for organizations monitoring their work restricting their sources of resources and and in many cases shutting them down if they don't adhere to the unreasonable requirements imposed on them. Yeah so this could be killing people with a thousand paper cuts of of paperwork you need you need approval to assemble to hold this meeting right to tell people about The dame the benefits of sanitation or to teach people how to for being totally totally benevolent about it. Let's say you're trying to teach people how to operate and maintain a solar powered phone charging station rain valuable. That's great stuff and then let's say the country in which you're trying to do this doesn't care for your whole the cut of your Jib and so they say okay to hold this class where you teach this you have to get approval oval from this authority and that authority has to approve it Sixty days before you do this however that approval can only be submitted submitted thirty days before you have the things so now you're in a catch twenty two cranleigh. It's it's weird. It's a weird weird flex for sure but we also have examples of specific countries who started banning or excluding. NGOs make no mistake because of these concerns that spies may be infiltrating the country via NGOs so Pakistan's Ministry of the Interior Rejected did registration applications from eighteen international NGOs in October of twenty eighteen And they dismissed. All of the appeals that came without giving a reason they are clearly very suspicious of these agencies just in general in Saudi Arabia. The government can deny licenses insist to new organizations and disband them a step further even if they are deemed to be quote harming national unity and this is affected human rights. It's groups Including Women's human rights groups who have not been able to register and operate freely in the country. This is a really good example of like you know a couple of bad. Apple's spoiling the bunch. You know I mean because as I said at the top of the show clearly. There's good work being done by these NGOs will because of a few bad actors Everyone you know everyone kind of gets screwed right well. It's also a convenient reason to keep things as they are right like if you're starring especially about women's rights groups operating in Saudi Arabia. It's absolutely I mean if you can just ban a group that is advocating for certain things Because of reason a potential threat to our sovereignty. Or whatever yeah you know and that that phrase like I'd love to get your take on that phrase been national harming national national unity Yeah yeah I mean quality seniors harming National Unity Arabia's right that's that's kind of what we're talking about and you can kind of see that at play that kind of phrasing at play in countries across the world even ones that you you know you may live in right now that you identify if I with as like having this equality thing down pat perhaps. Perhaps it's not that way that's right. I mean the very basis of your national unity could be on the wrong side of a human rights in general as a home yet those field shade of the United States. By the way just uh-huh okay. Well take off okay in general but the this is this is an interesting case glider brought it up because in the case of Saudi Arabia Arabia. Yeah there might be some Insidious Intelligence Agency activity going on. But it's also just as likely it's more likely that a a lot of those NGOs getting shut down because they are advocating for things that in the West or seen as in alienable human rights Bellarusse goes a little bit further her any NGO that can operate in the country is is closely observed scrutinized by the state. And if you work for any NGO who tried to register and got rejected you have committed a crime and you may be imprisoned You may also just disappear. You should probably get out. Yeah These are just a few examples. Other countries as by John China and of course Russia have introduced introduced more registration reporting requirements. And if you don't comply you can be thrown in prison. which is it sounds weird? I heard you know to say that you didn't complete some paperwork so now you're going to jail possibly for long long time especially if you're four national national right because usually we think well if you don't do paperwork rank you get a fine for being late you know. Yeah unless assists I'm trying to think of like a really bad traffic violation where you actually end up having to go to jail for a couple of days. If you don't fill out your paperwork I pay or show up. Sure Yeah I guess for people on Probation That's paperwork that could get you in trouble. But we mentioned Russia. Maybe we bury the lead a little bit here. Russia is one of the most well known anti NGO organizations. They few years back banned. All NGOs that they considered sittard undesirable. It's true The government has regularly labelled NGOs who receive foreign funding as foreign agents. It's which is a term that you could very easily correlate to Ones that are a little more direct like spy traitor turn enemy of the state The government applies this kind of thinking so broadly not only thinking actual legislation that even an organization Schmidt supports people with say diabetes. Actually Gets could could could be subject to fines Put on a blacklist of foreign in ages and forced to close. This is not hypothetical. This actually happened in October of two thousand eighteen Medical Environmental Women's groups. oops all of these have also come under serious scrutiny and fire from the Russian government and all of these moves have really galvanized. Alvin is the developing world and launched a kind of a renaissance of anti NGO legislation. Yeah and so for anyone listening now who has dedicated their life to service. Thank you for being one of the good forces in the world. Even though I'm sure at times it feels like you're outnumbered a so if you're having a hard time trying to understand why these countries would so profoundly distrust Joe's think about it this way if if you are in the US or Australia wherever you're listening to this show imagine how you would feel if they're organizations from say China UH Russia or Iran popping up in the capital popping up in your town and they were funneling hundreds of millions of dollars dollars given to them by their parents government just to influence your local politics right so now now it doesn't matter how how you vote because there is a new special interest group in town. They have more money than you could ever raise. And they have a bigger say even though they don't live where you live. And even if it's not not specifically influencing politics but as influencing some kind of social norm or movement right in just that perhaps your immediate area area doesn't agree with. I mean that would be. That would be very strange if it was coming. If that money is coming an influence is coming from outside of your own country country that certainly feel odd and it feels like an attack on sovereignity. No I this would understandably here in the US. This would generate a lot of anger if people were aware aware of this especially if these groups tried to tilt an election one way or another but suppose they weren't trying to Tilton election suppose they had success excess doing that and now they wanted to up end the system of government this is something that the US financed NGOs have done in the past or sorry people operating out of those NGOs again. The NGOs may have no knowledge of what's actually happening and this is occurred numerous times. This is rinse and repeat because again again it works and the story is not over our only conclusion we can make is the NGOs are not going away. The CIA's pretty open about the fact that they dig it. They're they're they're like we. We like working with these guys. Yeah they actually have a term for they They acquainted deep cooperation between The agency and these NGOs and they refer to this whole process as a quote information sharing in quotes. So I don't know it seems pretty unlikely that that's the end of the story. So let's let's really quickly. Let's mention something that that. CBS News Special Report Talks about and that is the Security Act of nineteen forty seven just to give an idea of why why the heck is the CIA operating in this way because as we learned back in back in the old days and our schoolbooks. We learned that the Central Intelligence Agency is in fact an intelligence agency and it is meant to carry out what would be called intelligence. All the various ways we've talked about on this show numerous times mints Etcetera yeah gathering information right But not because of that security act of nineteen forty seven. They were essentially ordered through this act to do a whole bunch of other things and all of these things that they would would have to do then and now are currently having to do our duties quote as directed by the President and his National Security Council and that phrase is so vague it allows essentially who whoever the standing president is and the National Security Council who have whichever elected officials are in there. They get to direct the CIA outside of the director of the CIA. or at least nudge very harshly. What they need to do and what they should be interested reminds me of the term which I've always found weird and a little creepy serving at the pleasure of the president? Yeah chick-fil-a well in that case it doesn't matter who the president is because if you've got we talked about it in an episode not long ago but if you've got a Security Council with officials that have been there for a long time who see a big picture who see the chess moves. I can only imagine what things occur. What what other countries perhaps should be very much aware of well said and that's a great question? Our other nations right to be concerned. Is there a solution to this problem or is the money got into good. Is the system to effective. The question is not whether the machine is is broken because You know there's an argument to be made that the people who are running this thing love it. It's doing what they want. They know exactly what it's doing. And what their role all in all of that is for sure. Right reminds me very much of diplomatic immunity and functioning out of embassies. Yeah Yeah I was thinking the same thing when it terms of the The aid workers or whatever the NGO employees being able to get kind of carte blanche That's that's the sort of the root of some of these laws. Were they're like no. You can't come anymore anymore. We don't want you know what you did. Are you familiar with the term. cranberry no gun in Cranston. Lock them up but we want we want to hear from you as we said earlier if you have been if you have been abroad or here in the US were in your home country a helping out with a non governmental organization. Thank you for the work. You're doing thank you for making the world a better place. 'CAUSE for Pete's sake we need the help And if you have if you have experience with anything sketchy going on. In one of these organizations we would love to hear from you. It's like the Peace Corps would be eighty one right. Yeah a lot of people go to the peace. And that's an upstanding finding organization. Everything's fine about the Peace Corps there used to be a statute for the founder of the peace. He scored or old office. I remember you know. That's that's what you made it. Would you have a statue. That's a flex may so if you WANNA send us any information and you're not afraid aid to share it with us because of whatever situation you may have been in You can send it to us right now. 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030419 Part 2

Ace and TJ

44:08 min | 1 year ago

030419 Part 2

"There's news. And then there's the important stuff the stuff that's trending. Okay. We'll get to how Taco Bell is literally saving lives because that's true. But I you might have seen group on trending on Friday now, follow along, Jordan woods kylie's. Former best friend did that red table talk with Jada Pinkett Smith and then shortly after Chloe tweeted, this why are you lying Jordan woods, if you're going to go and try to save yourself by going public instead of calling me privately to apologize. I at least be honest about your story, by the way, you are the reason my family broke up. So then some girl named Clark Kent Clark. He should know cookies are now responded to chloe's tweet and said, oh shut up will you you ain't care when tristen cheated on you the first fifty seven times you and care when he was sharing his group on geo drunk with the world. While you were pregnant with two truth and a lie. Why do you care now? Khloe you're a bird a whole pterodactyl. So reponse started trending because she said Tristan Thompson had a groupon. P were right group on then began Ron Brown with exactly was the top trending topic all Friday afternoon, then group gets in on the actions as we politely. We would like to be removed from this narrative. We want nothing to do with this no way, shape or form wanted me involved in this. So kisha can't got re tweeted forty-one thousand times and people were looking to send her money through pay pal cat the cash app and through patriotic because they loved her tweet so much for you're a bird a whole pterodactyl. Facet by the fact that people just want to send money because they like to tweet tweet. I'm just did you five dollars you making funny commentary about the culture. Here's here's five dollars. And I also like the she call her daughter to truths and a lie. Messed up. That's a baby what you gonna do clever. Also, there was a guy in Oregon who's trapped in his car for five days during a snowstorm, and when he was finally rescued with his dog he told police that he survived off eating Taco Bell hot sauce packets the he had found on the floor of his car. Five daily have three he had three Taco Bell packets. And he had plenty of water because the snow would melt, right? So what three Taco Bell? I love it. Fire sauce is not going to save your life. First off you can live much longer than five days on on no food because he had water with the snow. Well, I mean, I'm saying when they asked him how he did. He said Taco Bell fire saves Taco Bell all over this come on mardi flied him up to headquarters today to gonna marketing campaign for their this is easy. It's great store. Z a a chunk of bunk. No, no, okay. Say you can live longer. If you've already got a lot of fat stored. Without you can live without food longer. Is that right? Yeah. Because your body gets energy from the fact that's already stored that makes for example, I could live maybe. I could go month and a half easily without eating and still be you know, up and at them everyday. Thicke boy SAS would be in a coma by you know, nineteen hours. Yeah. Be dead. You'll be and remember that story we had last month about the Colorado jogger who killed the amount line. This is amazing. Whether there's an update to the story, the mountain line was an orphaned four month old cub, forty pounds, not as impressed. I saw this over the weekend. Not as impressive. I'm sorry. Who cares? I do. I his fault that things still attack. I understand the story was that he tackled and distract him outlined. Like, wow, that's really impressive until you find out. It's an orphaned four month old kitten. Orphan because they knew that they had tracking this one orphan, and which now animal rights activists like it was an orphan lost its parents, which I think is silly attacked him. I understand, and it's not I just don't think it's that impressive any. Well. It's not your thirty five pound forty pound mountain line. I understand outline. All right. Well, we know some places around here where we live that have zoo type animals in there, and I'm sure they have we can find a mountain lion or Bob cat, kitten or something and Sassoon Regan's can play with it and see how hard it would be. If it were mad at you to to kill it. I think I got a four. Okay. You got what I got a forty pound dog. I could strangle that thing to death. No problem. He's mad at meal time have a sixty pound dogs. So let's do this. Choke outs. Yeah. Kills doing. We're going to be. I wanna kill giraffe necks. Get him over here. I'm just kidding. I get it all those things are polar bear sweet and gentle the environmentalists. You know, just get out there and play with a wild polar bear, see what have let me kill a pan. Even a even a cub a polar bear cub out there and play with it on the ice. She is a sweet mom of three. She sews curtains all day what there's one song that when it comes on. She becomes a completely different woman hers and your musical alter ego next. Show take journey back in time and get connected funny to an ace and TJ show from the past with a total recall podcast total recall sponsored by the amazing Valentine hotel and spa in Charlotte. Book your spot getaway, the Ballantyne dot com and follow total recall on Twitter, hashtag total recall. Are you ready for everything and nothing all of the same time? Hey, it's Jillian me for my podcast ace at large knew each Thursday at twelve noon through itunes and Google play. Looking for spectacular deals on spring break in summer travel? Emailer travel agent Michelle at travel at ace, T dot com and follow Acer large on Twitter, hashtag as at large. Coming up tomorrow on the ACT show. Tomorrow's group therapy. You have a problem. Need some advice? But you really feel you can't talk to a lot of your friends about it where your friends just EMS. Facebook twitter. Tell us your story. And at this time tomorrow, we will select one share it. And then get everybody's feedback. You should do when it comes to therapy on the and show. So maybe it was Thursday of last week. I saw and I wish I could credit this person. But have you ever you see something on Instagram than you try to go? Oh, wait, and he tried to go back and find it, and I could not find it. Because it was somebody's insta- story and lady said, I'm I'm a nice suburban mom of three until. Hypnotize by Notorious B I g comes on. Then I become a gangster. It's just one song that makes her into a totally different person. She's a nice quiet suburban mom of three. But when she hears this. She just becomes a totally different human being. So we've called your musical alter ego. The one song that makes you a completely different person. Like the example us earlier in the show. If you were to tell us, I am a. I'm a burly bad a construction worker all day every day until Hello. By Dale comes off. Then I become a crybaby. Some people say that it's an alter ego in then when they tell you the song, I I'm not think that fit you pretty well, you know, like as if you said, it's it's. I love Adele in. She makes me cry. Then nobody would say, oh, that's not like you at all. Right. Your cry crybaby all the time. Yeah. It's fair. I have one because this is hard for me because I like so many different types of music, and I don't look at one as being uncharacteristic of me because my personality type only four percent of the population of the world share it. So it's all over the place. But. At my very core. My principles I am a conservative. And I think that one of the biggest destructive movements in our culture that has done our country. No good whatsoever is the hippy movement of the sixties. But there's a hippie song that I just love. And I don't think anybody else in this room is going to like it. Can he? On the road. There's no doubt about this being one of those freedom rock creepy. I don't know why I like. Yeah. You psychedelic stereo? But I'm on a road game. On-road just be ego. Absolutely. So for example, TJ would say, I'm a hard core conservative until on the road again by canned heat comes on become a hippie. Whoa. Those three to have met at these on hippie. He's brother drop some acid. Sas has one Roquette. What is your says expensive by Erica, Jane? So what's the difference? What are you during the day at what happens to you in the song is feel like I'm real laid back and just like super casual during the day and then on the weekends. When the song goes comes off. It's just like. Nothing. Nothing beats this. This is Erica, Jane, Eyre, Jane. Python? Take in at the time. Dishing data by with? No, try. Everybody knows that billion. This is. Run that site shifts. Tell us who you are expensive. Tell us through you are what you become when you hear that the song that causes your musical alter ego. One triple eight four one to twenty three thousand five hundred plate forty-one as TJ Facebook Twitter next. Jay show now one triple eight forty one. Papa John's believes it's good to be different. So we've added six new pizzas. Handcrafted specialty menu because no-one roles with an all cheese crew. So get together and figure out who's a Meatball pepperoni new the ultimate who's applying Hawaiian or is this the Italian and who gets the title of Mr. Miskin -ality the pepper and genie. That's all the ingredients you need for good time. And right now, get any large specialty for just twelve bucks. Better ingredients better pizza Papa John's participating US stores, Texas, Hillary extra looking for more than juice cleaned juice offers smoothies. Also eagles avocado toast, and so much more all USDA, certified organic, go to clean, juice dot com to find a location near you. It's clean juice. You'll way to stay connected funny with the more show after the show podcast is to tunes. Alexa, and now Pandora sponsored by clean, juice. Go to clean Jews dot com for locations now. Wissel election. Your musical alter ego. The one song that makes you a completely different person. Like this lady. But this is song. That's come up two different ways. She says, I'm a very strong Christian heavily involved in church, and I'm very reserved. But when pony by genuine comes off. All I can do is think about Channing Tatum, dancing, and that just does too. But who? Putting this groove into her system and the images of Channing Tatum doing things to her. Satan. Oh. Gonna say herself. No, the devil. That's. This girl's musical, he goes great. I listen primarily hardcore metal especially Slipknot and five finger death punch. But the first note of fancy McIntyre. Sassy country girl before the second note can finish. I remember it all very looking back return the team. Room run them, shackle new or? Say the least we were hug for the mama spit. Heavier less Vinnie. We had the buy. Stink coma girl. Niable not care. How old you are who you are just kidding field. This president. Stew. It's a well real song. But that is all about REBA mcentire and how she presents every syllable that song. The more more musical alter egos. This guy says I am fairly mild mannered. Volunteer for hospice, donate to our local animal shelter. I donate my time and money, but if sound of madness from shinedown pops up. Throat punching and oaktree. He's what. Out gas always under. It's almost. Bring us. The. Yeah. I get it. All yeah. Crate. Was great. We just played fancy by REBA mcentire and found by shine. Now back to back program directors one more. I'm good old country boy until anything by Eminem comes on in some reason, my hat turned to the left ever so slightly, and I have an injury to my left leg that causes me to just a little. Say. Slim, say please stand we're gonna. Yeah. Those those one song of songs just change everything about you. You become a totally different person. Often in a very based on what some of the women have sent to as a lot filthy, man. Yeah. So what kills me is that they they think that that's their alter ego? You know, like, I'm not like that way. I'm not that way. At all normally. But you let that song come on. My hips do things. I didn't think they could do who. You're right, okay. Sure. Raw or you just don't know yourself. Then obviously. Because we know how crazy you are. I'm the team Lomb. A quiet reserved. Ball, mama. Until was called back that Thang up comes on. Then. I'm kitchen cook. And did. That's one of the songs. It's like three times all the time. But you know, what? Ladies, listen, if your wife lit that music alter-ego like that happen without the song having to come on when your husband gets home. Well to be he would like to see you in the kitchen doing crazy things that crank has tracked. The weight into some stupid song comes on to it for your husband. Then you'll help you with the dishes are even doing by himself. That's the way you do that. I love you, ladies, I'm trying to help. This is the TJ. She'll kill. All right. What are Murph oaks, Murph oaks? And why are they standing up and demanding equal rights? You know, who they can only imagine. All right. We'll have any idea what this is to be taken. Seriously, don't think that you're going to be able to just laugh this off because they will not be denied their equal rights. These murph. Oh coming up next. The show wanna save up to seventy five percent on domestic or international airline tickets, then call low cost airlines for prices, so low we can't publish them. Call eight hundred two eight seven forty seven sixteen eight hundred two eight seven forty seven sixteen. Coming up on the and TJ show. Novus funny is real funny in thirty minutes. We're gonna do something real cool. It's called afraid to fall in love. What are you scared of falling in love with you scared that you're gonna love it too much. You're gonna become obsessed with it. We'll yoga or no I met a girl that is of she grew vegan. And then she was scared to eat a burger from five guys because she was so afraid that she was going to love it and never stop eating them. Well, that's interesting. That would probably happen. Absolutely. If you can afford it and go broke in the process expensive, eating their extra fried. You'd a lot of fries. Yeah. About thirty minutes on the as in TJ show. Here we go. Something you need to know about. They're called Murph oaks. Murphy folks are men and women who are amateur mermaids because I didn't know that. There was a such thing as a a professional. Mermaid. These are amateur mermaids, and they are in Australia right now. But this is going to come to America. And they are they're speaking out and protesting trying to get laws changed in the parliament. Because they're being told they can't wear their mermaid tails to the public pools and swim around in them. Hm? The trend is growing among mermaid enthusiasts. Mainly women who use special mermaid tails. They form pods and swim in the public pools by by they form pas many you'd have four five or six of women together. Like in a school. Okay. Yeah. Now, they're being told they can't swim in the public pools anymore because of the danger to everybody else, but there hasn't been any research done to show the how it is. A public safety concern. They just decided this can't be safe for everybody swimming around these we always one or two here, they're fine. But mermaid pods. That's going to little too far. So they won't the laws change. They wanna be treated equally. So so feel wells or mermaid Sophia Marie is based in Perth and said there about one hundred twenty people in the active Perth, Murph oke pod group, and the numbers are growing. She turned to the activity as a creative outlet after a music career and said like any hobby, it had provided fun and friendship describing it as quote, a rich tool of the imagination in quote, we come from different backgrounds. We do a lot of art and photography and crafting. When we're not swimming. We have craft nights or movie nights. So they're saying that this whole thing now is political and all they wanna do is swim. Be where the people are. Yeah. Good. I won't be. They wanna see wanna see them dancing walking around on those. What do you oh feet? And they said they just wanna be. Up where they walk up where they run up where they stay all day and son wandering free wish I could be of the. The Australian government is saying they aren't part of that world. They're down at the bottom of the sea with a mean father and his tried it. An Ursuline the big bad, which they're trying to escape the witch. Right. We've not heard the last of the story of the Murph oaks. No. But have you seen any footage of these Murph oaks? Outfits is weird. It's it's very I think it's creepy. Yeah. It is now if you got your own places swim journal knock yourself out do it. But again, I don't know if it's not really dangerous to the people. I think it just may be that they're taking up a whole lot of room in the pool. Exactly. And other people need to swim. Yeah. You need to wait until there's mermaids swim like adult swim. Wait until it's mermaid time or have mermaid night. Are they good looking? I would say, no. This is the ace TJ show. All right. The polar bears at the Cincinnati zoo are officially pooping out glitter. Why is this happening? I'll tell you in less than ten minutes in now trending. Coming up. It's not the news. But it is the stuff that you'll really be talking about the rest of the day. Dow trending with Riggins on the ace and TJ show. I have a crazy story about the WWF, you know, that animal organization with the panda logo. It's pretty well known. The crazy story is breaking this morning. I'll get to that in just a second. But first the Cincinnati zoo has a bunch of polar bears on exhibit. And they're also helping research. Why polar bear numbers have declined? What affects the climate change have on it. If there are any, you know, they're doing a widespread look at polar bears, but as a way of determining polar bear habits. They're now feeding the polar bears edible glitter. So they can remember who's who when those visas deposits come out. They can check by the different colors of glitter. And so they're actually pooping glitter. That's yeah. I don't know that I would ever think of that. Are we somehow colorized it? Yeah. They're putting dies and edible glitter in it. So they know like, that's, you know, that's Mr. sparkles. I wanna do that. Right. Wouldn't that be amazing? We take something so gross and make it fun. Liz smart, but very smart. Okay. Here's the only thing that I can say as far as experience with this. Being from Louisiana. The we have what is called a king cake around mardi gras. It's got edible glitter all over. I've never seen the glitter again after I've eaten it. Really have you know? Donelly like there's been a unicorn in the toilet. If you know what I'm saying. Right. I didn't really think about the way to king cake on Friday. There's a lot of good or on it maybe closely. Maybe polar bears are different or there's something about the quote unquote glitter that they used that makes it stick around a bit. But have they have they seen that? It's worked. Yeah. I've got I've got a picture here. I can put it up. But it it's just don't put it. It's poop glitter. The you don't have you don't have to sift through it or anything. They don't need a sifter. Now. You can see is there. Okay. This is blue glitter. I'd interesting looking at it full hot. It's a lot to take in. Now. We know the WWF is that the World Wildlife Fund for nature they have the panda logo. They've been around for years and years and years. We'll BuzzFeed is breaking the news that the WWF has been funding. Paramilitary troops to go down and hunt. Some of these. Poacher's down, including people that just live in villages that, you know, maybe poach certain animals, and that they have killed and tortured some of these people, and this is all being funded by the WWF world that they think the World Wildlife Fund, correct is killing and torturing poachers. They're hiring paramilitary guards and troops to then go and kill people in villages and torture them because they they're training. These people who you know, might not be on the up and up all the way around and their one goal is to protect the animals, and it looks like at any cost. That's what BuzzFeed is reporting. So just a crazy crazy story. These era military troops are going and taking people out. So well, it's greatest this. Organization. They're the reason why that there is a WWE now. Correct. Because it used to be called the WWF, and they said we had that name trademark before the wrestling did. So you got to change it. And they lost in court the wrestling did. And that's why there's world wrestling entertainment, this crazy. So you can go read the whole story. It's fascinating. I met a girl over the weekend. Who is a vegan? She's been vegan her whole life. And she didn't wanna go. Eat a burger because she was a freight. She would love it. Do you have anything like that? You're afraid to fall in love in less than ten minutes. Show. Your connected funny with the ace TJ show. My name is Regan's. And I was out this weekend. I know. Through on a date or just the dog. To do something with the radio station that we work for and I was working with this girl, and she also works here. And we were right next to a five guys which is like, burgers and French fries. If you've never been to a five guys before hotdogs this real good. It's real good Israel. Good. It's real good. Big Bank of fries. Yeah. Fries coming to bag. Rick break Bill by a friend. It's probably one of my favorite burgers that you can get just like on the go and Israel good. But after we were done with our little event as oh, you're gonna get a burger we were talking about having lunch. And she said, no, I'm vegan. And and so I was asking her questions. She grew up in a vegan household, and I said, well, you can go get some fries, and she goes, no, I can't even go in and get fries. Because if I see the burger I'm gonna get it. And if I get the burger I'm afraid I'm gonna love it and never turn back. So she was scared to try the burger in fear of falling in love with. And then no ceasing to be vegan, which I don't think that bad. Listen, eat your animal product. Who cares? If that's what you wanna do give your life. So did you go on and get a burger? No no now because it was late. It was like two thirty and I don't want to be that late. Because you have such strict rules about times of eating Regan's. I do your eating tonight. You're you making pasta like ten o'clock at night on Saturday night. I always eat pasta, ten o'clock, that's part of the regimen. He didn't wanna burger messing that up. Yeah. Ace so the burden early. Maybe three messes up the pasta, ten o'clock. Okay. Yeah. I I'm pretty strict I only eat pasta after APM strictly because I was wondering I was just wondering if there was this the polite way to give you the the shake off on. I can't even go in. There you go ahead though. I can't go in there. Love burger now, I was just trying to get shed of trying to treat like a date come on. Maybe maybe, but I was going to get beer and I needed to go to the grocery stores. I I had about, but she was afraid of trying because she was a phrase she was gonna fall in love with it. I have something similar. I don't wanna buy a pair of odds. Because I think I would love the hell out of them to slip on a nice furry boots. Stay warm all the time. Tom Brady did it, and he caught all kinds of crap for it. I understand Brady Brady I'm afraid that. I would be I would end up wearing all the time because they look very comfortable. And I'm very jealous. That's why I don't buy them. That makes sense. I want cocaine listen, please. I would love it. Yeah. I don't do it. Exactly. So what have you stopped or what have you avoided avoided for fear of loving and falling in love, and then becoming obsessed with it. I don't have anything because. Yeah. I mean, I'm not I'm not a weak person. So I can I can try things and love it. And then say, okay, we'll don't need this anymore. Droll those that could even I could even do crack, and in quitted anytime, I want, you know. I'd be one person that doesn't get addicted to it yet. When I go. You know, what I'm in the grocery store. I see that too leader of a Hawaiian punch, man. I bet that's real good. That's so good. If you like kind of drunken just want one thing to go to bed like have some Hawaiian punch that's bomb. But I don't buy because I know I'm going to drink the whole thing. And I love it when you have one because you're vegetarian vegan mine's just I mean, it's still meet the like if I was to walk into a burger place. I wouldn't buy it. But I'd be so tempted to just try a little bit of some Orioles. Okay. So what would you be more afraid of of going to all the time? If you a a burger or eight a just a pile of bacon, bacon, bacon. If something is going to tempt vegetarian. I think bacon pork in general barbecue or bacon. Yes. Absolutely. Burgers on so much. Yeah. But yeah, that's one thing. I have to stay away. From just the smell gets to me every time. So you don't try it or you don't get involved with it at all because you're afraid that you'll love it. Yeah. Especially if you've got an addictive personality too. I'm kind of that way about golf then. I'm not I don't know that I'm afraid. I would love it. I'm afraid that I would have to keep playing until I got good at it. Yeah. Conquered it perfectionist. Yeah. 'cause I hate stuck in things. I'd rather I'd rather sit on the sidelines and not try something than to suck at it. Yeah. Which I think is healthy thing to do force. Let suck sucking things. A one triple eight four one to twenty three eighty five or Facebook and Twitter. We get you Deums. TJ show now at one triple eight forty one eight t j. TJ show has everything you need to stay connected. Funny dot com, and the TJ links to all of our podcast social media platforms radio affiliates and charities now facing TJ, we ask you, what are you afraid to try or experience in fear of falling in love with it becoming obsessed with it because I knew a girl who was vegan. She didn't wanna try a burger because she was a freight. She was gonna love burgers and never turn back. There's a guy here that says gambling. He said here's this philosophy. He smoked and after smoking one cigarette Nexia, no he was buying ton to cigarette smoking weed, and they had to stop it all together, he goes. Now, he looks at gambling the same way he doesn't buy scratch offs or anything for fear that if he buys a scratch off leaves you a lottery ticket lease to trip the casino. He knows his personality. So I just void it at all costs yet. Lewis says I've KADO Tosi says if I eat at once never be able to afford a house, and he's trying to be fun. Chrissy says Harry Potter. I've never seen it or read any of the books because everyone says I love it. And she's confident they're right. She gonna become obsessed with it. Why would you? Okay. I guess because you're were you would be obsessed with something they casual fans of Harry Potter. And then there's people that are like really here. Did that case it's reading and enjoying movies? I mean, some that stimulates your brain. These others are gambling terrible. Are this is I'm afraid of working out? Again. It was really obsessed with working out at one point and that turned into a two and a half year eating disorders, and I'm afraid to get back into the routine at the gym and become obsessed again, I'm afraid of what I call anorexic brain. Well. Here's one that. I'm afraid of making the relations with Jessie James decker. I'm afraid there'll be no turning back. No. Yeah. Because I don't think you can just be a casual. Making the relations with Jessie James decker person is probably full on the diction. Yeah. I would think that's the that's why you don't only reason. The only reason otherwise it'd be happening be on. Right. If I didn't have such an addictive personality out of. In had done that right Jesse? No sorry. I can't. There's a there's a lady. This is why she avoids the chip aisle at the grocery store. Yeah. I believe go down that I'll I'll buy some if I buy them. I'll eat the bag before I get home. Yeah. Kip chips on chip bags nearly as big as they used to be before. I even the bag. I'll open it have it in the cart in the store. Yeah. I know people I'm one of those I don't I'm not opening anything in the store. I don't do that. Unless it's like, you know, Qena green beans. Great. He's thinking opener. Have pulled tops, man. I think the vigils somebody won't door with plastic. Fork eighty green beans. It's amazing gross in fascinating all the time. What about a Donut? You know, they have the the case of donuts. I think I remember eating when as a kid my mom going he aided doughnut. So I think as one of scan the barcode no harm is done. The same thing. Before you get wearing. I mean, Ted bigly as long as you pay for it. But it just freaks me out soon. Anything in the store, you see people try greats and stuff all the time, especially old people pull a great out of the bag and eat it. I gotta wash it. But then again when you wash at home or you really do anything rented off how good is that definitely sample. Great. Do you? Really? Oh, yeah. Like what what constitutes bad? Great. Like, if you're on these groups, don't taste, right? Just to have the authority of like, I can sample this and still not by if I don't like it. You know, like raw corn on the cob. Fresh back. What are the things can you sample in the store? I mean, you're not. So I don't think you're supposed to sample grapes. I see people take the caps off deodorant. Now, they don't put it under their arm. But anything spray the breeze. Yes. Radioed and people will spray, and it's like, okay. Well, you just put it back on the shelf. I see a lot of that thing that I can almost understand that there's no testers laying out. Don't sample it. Yeah. Pretty much of the it's a it's a weird look anyway, whether I'm doing it or somebody else when sm- I smelling things. Yeah. If it's candles or if it's I use solid the odor that old spice different different skits. And I'll take that little plastic thing out of the middle of it and smelling it put back in the store. Yeah. Oh, yeah. They have these new I wanna know what they smell like would never. I'd feel like I would never do that. I would feel like I have messed it up. I opening liking it. I would just risk. Not like this winter fresh it looks. I like me a winter fresh that'd be fine psychic smells like never. This is the ace in TJ show. On Moore show after the show. It's gonna be Lydia know that today we have the top ten Florida man stories of all time. They all start with a Florida, man. While the Miami Herald put together their list of the top ten greatest Florida man stories ever. Now, it all depends like there's a guy that a Florida man bid off his girlfriend's thumb during a late night Taco Bell run. Like that kind of thing. The top ten of all time. According to the Miami Herald. Up today. More show after the show among other things, it's all sponsored by clean, juice. If you don't have our app, you can hear more show live on our apple app is free. Thanks to Papa John's if you miss it. You can always download the podcast available every weekday at noon eastern on I tunes, Google play music and at TJ dot com. Right. Sorry blast. Wasn't it? The wrong thing didn't cut that off. Sorry. That's all me. Okay. There is a. This is Uber driver who was giving people options during the ride as to whether. You want him to be? Talkative? Or you want him to be quiet that sort of thing is getting to be a normal thing. In in these rideshare cars call. It's got a quiet ride. You can make it an option a lot of places. What is therapy is a choice? I haven't seen that. I mean, that's. You can tell him your problem, and he'll help you with a solution. Sounds horrible. Now. Do you do that does sound horrible? Do you do that? When you order it on the on the app, or do you wait until you get in there and tell him I'm on need silent yet or heart. Is he presented as a menu. He get when you get in. He gives you a menu new tell him which right? I'm gonna have the slight conversational ride or whatever. And then he goes. Okay. Sounds good. Where are you from takes driving? If you tell him you on silence. He takes the thing back. If you tell them you want their p probably says, well, I September. What's what's going on what your problem? Okay. So is one call the creepy. Rod where he doesn't say anything at all just seem staring at you review mirror. Or is that it should be called that or the rude ride where he just tries to be as rude as possible. That'd be that'd be. To go to that place that Dick's restaurant where they insult you that Chang, dry straw that. You what's the one Riggins in Chicago that you told me to go to the family that time, Ed? Yeah. I don't know if they're still around. But that was a big Chicago thing his like Dick's last resort you. Yeah. That was good. I hate those things. I I like I had last resort. A rude. You all the time their mouth off about and I'm just trying to get a cheeseburger, just bringing the teas burger, okay? I think it's more fun. If you're drunk that way, you get a little mouthy. And I think that same thing with the Uber ride because when people pack into a taxi drunk, they're usually pretty loud and somebody's fire Maggie. I think it'd be fun. Yeah. The the person waiting on us at that place. You talking about Regan's. Yeah. He was gay and extra sassy. He's like a one, right? He was the. But it was you know, that's a place where you have your kids with you. So they're not really making bad insults at you. They're kinda picking on your shirt and your head of I come on. I don't have all day. What are you having? This is what he says. What are you have it? Come on. I don't have all day. I will be five. Five. Loves out, and he jumped up on the bar, and they start dancing and doing that kind of thing, you know, stepping on people's hotdogs. Didn't get enough for more get the ACT J app in your app. Store is connected funny, material copyright, two thousand nineteen AT incorporate.

Sassoon Regan World Wildlife Fund Ace Taco Bell Papa John Twitter REBA mcentire Taco Bell Sas Facebook Google Murph oaks Clark Kent Clark Channing Tatum Riggins Chloe Tristan Thompson Fries Jada Pinkett Smith Florida
Hydroelectric Dam Project Could Threaten Tanzanian Game Reserve, Conservationists Say

Environment: NPR

02:08 min | 1 year ago

Hydroelectric Dam Project Could Threaten Tanzanian Game Reserve, Conservationists Say

"Support for this podcast and the following message come from Google from Connecticut California from Mississippi to Minnesota. Millions of businesses are using Google tools to grow online learn. How Google is supporting businesses in your state at Google Dot Com? MM slash economic impact. The Selous Game Reserve is one of Tanzania's most popular tourist attractions. It's also protected UNESCO World Heritage Site and recently it's been at the center of an international debate pitting conservation against development as. Kalima <unk> condie reports the sprawling game reserve spans more than nineteen thousand square miles in southern Tanzania. It's a popular destination for tourists who travel on safari in order to spot elephants rhinos wild dogs. Another animals but conservationists say the game reserve is now under threat due to a new infrastructure project by the Tanzanian government on Friday president. John Mica fully inaugurated the construction of a multi-billion dollar hydro-electric. Damn that will be built on the Refugee River in the reserve. The project is expected to bring electricity to millions of Tanzanians but conservationists are concerned. The Damn will irreversibly damaged the protected area which has already been endangered. Injured by poaching according to the World Wildlife Fund the dam could also endanger the livelihoods of two hundred thousand people living downstream but Maga fully has rejected environmental concerns. He says the damn will only take up three percent of the game reserve and as an environmentally friendly energy solution he also shot back at international criticism by pointing out how much of the reserve is used for expensive game hunting and hotels that don't benefit ordinary Tanzanians.

Selous Game Reserve Google Tanzania World Wildlife Fund UNESCO World Heritage Site John Mica Refugee River Tanzanian government Connecticut president Minnesota Mississippi California nineteen thousand square miles billion dollar three percent
Episode 44

Climate 2020

48:17 min | 3 weeks ago

Episode 44

"So, this is a special episode of Climate Twenty, twenty, the podcast about climate change. In the twenty twenty elections, we'll be bringing you periodic episodes like this which are interviews with leading climate experts who weigh in on the two thousand twenty elections and climate change role in today's guest is aligned straight who is the director of US climate programs for the World Wildlife Fund in the CO founder of the, we are still in movement which sprang up to counter president trump's withdraw from the Paris climate agreement Ilan has also worked. At the National Security Council where he directed climate and clean energy programs. Both for President Obama and strangely for president trump and Ilan. We'll talk a little bit about that. He was also helped full and instrumental in negotiating the Paris climate agreement and we talked some about that as well. So enjoy. So. We're here today with Alon Straight who is the? Director of US climate programs for the World Wildlife Fund. But before we get started I have to say this is. An auspicious week for this interview on the West is literally on fire the south, flooding? They run out of names for hurricanes. In. In the warm waters, the ocean. Of. The. Ocean and What's what's more we the Chris? Wallace, announced the debate topics for the first presidential debate. And despite the fact that climate is the number one issue for Democratic voters. Climate question in the presidential debates, they're going to focus on the Senate Republicans race to confirm a sixth conservative justice and the economy in the pandemic, which crossed the two hundred, thousand deaths in the United States all of that this week so. Says quite a week for you to join us on the PODCAST. Yeah I, mean I I. Think One of the questions that I always wrestle with the most is, how do you bring up climate change to people just as we're talking about what the debate and the truth is that you don't Anymore to bring it up to people you know half this country right now when they walk outside breathes in climate, change. At, the camp go outside and or they're being displaced from. Hurricane. And whether the moderator of the debate brings of climate change in the debate for some all election issue and second of all I guarantee it'll come up in debates that you just can't talk about the next four years of this country without talking about how climate change affects. Oh Well the good news alive I would expect Joe Biden to bring it up regardless of whether there's a question it's tied to the records. It's tied to the economy It's tied to the the anti-science responses to the pandemic I mean there are lots of ways into that issue which which I expect but I'll let I wanted to let's go back in time a little bit for for for listeners. So you were a few. Georgetown law school you were a four. You know you're you're an officer at A. Foreign Affairs officer the State Department when. President Obama was in office and you were there both at the start of the negotiations for the Paris climate agreement. But also for president, Obama's second term where he really pivoted he, it became obvious to both him and White House aides including Joe Biden, vice-president that the Republicans in Congress were not going to move anywhere on climate or any other issue for that matter. So they started to take executive actions at the White House and later moved to the National Security Council. You are the director of climate and clean energy programs you know for the National Security Council in the Obama, White House. So you're there for two very critical movements won. The White House taking executive action climbed into the run up to the Paris climate agreement so Tell us a little bit about what it was like you know in that Second Obama term on climate action's. Yeah. So Join State Department in Twenty Eleven. which was the of course, the very end of the first term. And the difference between the level of priority given to climate during the first term. Especially when I was there and I think there is still hangover from Waxman Markey and Copenhagen. When it seemed like. There was not enough. Fuel in the US on the issue of climate. To make it a top issue for the government, which is something we'll come back to. to the second term, it was night and day. Immediately ended the second. Term. Climate was a top foreign policy priority for the United States and I think I think the reason. Aside from the president in quite passionate about research, two things both of which are very relevant right now, the first is at Hurricane Sandy happened. Two weeks before the election and it became almost determinative force in the election outcome not only because the climate issue. But also because you could see a president that you had to manage a crisis and I think people were comforted by that. But because of Hurricane Sandy. Because of becoming a top issue in people's minds when they went to the polls, it became a top issue for the government right afterwards, and so after the election, you saw a climate action plan by the president. And then really scale up in the in the effort to negotiate a global agreement. But the second thing that's super important on issue why it was such a party is personnel. that. Secretary Kerry becoming the Secretary of State It was his first. Top priority. The first cable that he sent out to every ambassador in the United States after becoming secretary of state was how was about how to prioritize climate change in Oliver Diplomatic Relations. And so right away in the second term, it was clear that we just had a completely different attitude about about climate change and and absent that. So in other words, if the president hadn't made this a top three priority in foreign policy, I don't know that we would have been successful in the pairs. Which is interesting. I WanNa talk about that in just a second the personnel as policy in case you know if if Joe Biden, but but but but still sticking in that in that era. So you had though the Obama White House racing forward on a clean power plan, which is still Bethuel contested in court years. Later, you had the clean car roll, which is still mired. In. The court system and several other things. But one thing that that did move forward very rapidly which you are involved with both at the State Department. Later, you know an implementing, it afterwards was the Paris climate agreement. So talk a little bit about what the it was sort of a Herculean effort by lots of folks to both deal with China and some of the other actors. And and get the Paris climate agreement across the finish line. So talk a little bit about that. Yeah. Sure. So in twenty eleven the world adopted and I apologize in advance for how walkie I can get about the details of international negotiations but the world adopted what was then called the Durban Platform. So they, they came together in twenty eleven in Durban, South Africa to agree twenty seven that we needed a new Kleiner Jim in this was only this two years after Copenhagen. And so I think from the US point of view. We had two experiences. Of of of basic experience as a failure in our is that that we learn from in formulating a new version couple of bikes. So the first is the Kyoto Protocol. So after the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change is adopted in Nineteen ninety-two many including Vice President Joe Biden criticized the convention is having as failing to have any specific targets or timetables how you would actually implemented. So right right away parties got to work on Kyoto Protocol. And here, protocols supposed to have very specific requirements for every country in reducing emissions in tackling climate change. And the Senate hated it and the reason the Senate hated it was because the Kyoto Protocol at that time had no obligations for China China who is about to become largest emitter of the world soon, to become the largest economy in the world countries around the world could not get China to the table on a target for China. And and and you can't have a clergy in that leaves out. The developing world that accounts for now more than half omissions. So. Kyoto failed because it was too top down it did not allow for developing countries to come to the table in a way that would work for them. So then coming out of Kyoto Bush administration started working on an agreement that was gonna be flexible. President Obama was elected. And and got it across the finish line, and now is the Copenhagen Accord and the problem with the Copenhagen accord was was the opposite. It had no no specific specificities for I was going to be implemented. Any country could do whatever they want. And people were totally unsatisfied with that as a climber you can't just have a camera tumor, but he does whatever they want. You're never going to tackle the problem at the scope and scale needed. So we had these two ends of a spectrum on the one hand at top down regime that didn't work the developing world and a completely loose flexible system that wasn't GonNa work actually talking to a problem, and that was the impetus for the parish game was, how do we marry a system that needs to be top down in terms of the science with a system that's flexible because they're one, hundred, ninety, five countries will hundred ninety five different circumstances. And so the idea put forward by the United States was every country she gets to determine their own level of effort but that level of effort needs to be ratcheted up every five years and it needs to be subject to unprecedented transparency. So that you do more than you would otherwise through. That's the whole point. So in Twenty, twelve, twenty, thirteen as these negotiations are proceeding the role of the United States was to to conceptualize and put out ideas for the world that were. That we thought was we're going to work for that Allen of top down bottom up. The funny thing about being the United States in in that negotiation was some countries will put out A. Negotiating position will put out. To the world here's what we think. The agreement should look like it should have XYZ Annette and they will make that negotiating position. you know they'll say every country needs to have target of at least fifty percent by twenty time and that's me go shooting position. The thing about the United States was at that time an insult to the state and I give credit for that. We didn't do that. We put positions that were like you agreement should have a five year cycle and here's how transparent should work and people were. Okay. That's the United States negotiating position. That's great. We can live together side and gets the bargaining table be like no that's what we think. It's not a negotiating session. We don't have remove here. That's really what we think. And so over time I, think. We were able to build trust with other countries because we said really what we thought and the other thing was I think this is going to be really important for the moment were in. Now it took years to shake off the Bush administration. Like we didn't just come to the table in two thousand nine with the credibility of a new administration in countries to work with. US Day had deep skepticism about the united. States is interest in ability to deliver on climate. And part of how we overcame that credibility was time a second term. Part of that was being good faith players in the international editions since I just described. But the biggest part of that was the policy that we were just not going to be taken seriously until the president and the regulatory system have in place a structure for how we were going to to move forward on reducing US emissions and some of the most pivotal things that happened during that time period. Were not necessarily part of the negotiations were not happening in. In Durban or in Bonn Orange. Neva. But were happening. In the United States. So that is. Like you were saying the proposal, the clean power, plan, clean car roll rejection of the keystone pipeline. These are things that had a big impact on the international negotiations. So those were actions that showed the United States was. was was willing to step up and meet its obligations but there were a couple of key aspects of that that I think of the Paris climate accords that were really hanging in the balance and right until the very end and you I know if I remember correctly, you are heavily focused on transparency that was sort of your area. So people were. You know there I think there was some disbelief on some of the country negotiators part that that this could ever be transparent accord in terms of these countries, ambitions. But second, there was real skepticism about China's commitment to. Climate regime and it was secretary Kerry and some others You know including the president's dates who got China across the finish I still talk a little bit about the mean. Do you think I mean was the Paris climate accord ever in doubt because some of those key issues like transparency and China's commitment Yeah. I think. Famously, the Paris climate agreement was in doubt. Up until literally, the moment the gavel Straw I remember asking. Stern the special day. What do you? What do you put our odds at of getting this across the finish line today? He said sixty percent. That was that was our level optimism that day. Nom. But there were. So there were two major issues. Only, renegotiating until the very end the I was. what was the? Amount of differentiation. Between developed countries and developing countries. And, what I mean by that is with China to be held to different standards than the United States. And domestically as a political matter. We don't really like it. We don't like to see a country like as powerful as China being held to different standards than US United States, and so our our duty was to find a way of making sure that China is going to be as transparent and the implementation of their target as we were, and that was not something that ever happened before in a climate regime. And part of that is real legitimate capacity constraints on the part of China. China's enormous country is still developing. They don't have the same measurement verification abilities that the United States which has been measuring emissions for forty years. But. Some of those are totally political China for their part. Their political system doesn't want them hell to these essays. United. States. So That was one key issue. How do you find a balance between developed and developing countries and the way that we did that the way that we negotiated that was Was One. We had constant constant ongoing discussions with China and India about this issue Every week every other week we were talking about solutions that's It's imperative. You have to have a trusting relationship with these other economies. The second thing was that we undertook a deliberate strategy in a way of isolating these countries. So we developed real partnerships with A Small Island Developing States and least developed countries who had the most to lose if there wasn't going to be a comment agreement. And we worked with them on not only the substance of the agreement. But also on a real partnership they would help US pressure countries like China India to find a solution and so if you look at the last days of the Paris Agreement, associations we along with those countries forms the high emission coalition. Really the first coalition of its size between developed and developing countries in the negotiations. And and and without that. I. Don't know that we would need to stop. That's pretty unprecedented. Usually these negotiations break down the the less developed countries on one side arguing with developed countries or and and so for there to be a coalition of both of those types of countries is fairly unprecedented. Yeah, normally exactly these negotiations between developed countries and which called in the in the UN UN parlance the g seventy seven China. But in the climate negotiations, it was much more factionalized than that and that can be a something that you think of as an opportunity to advance rescue. So we we sort of analyzed who working with WHO and what would partners that were that were beyond the normal. Punisher structures. In terms of getting that agreement across the finish line at this sort of. How regaining China Harrigan India to agree the truth is that the president and the vice president were on the phone every day that week with other heads of state with Brazil with India with China. and talking about at the level of detail that those two could get into. Online specific agreements just put us at a at a crazy advantage that that you had the president of the United States talking another country about how frequent reports on greenhouse gas inventories should be. Negotiations was a huge advantage in these negotiations and so you know having a president. And at that time, the vice president who had been, who was you know an expert in foreign policy as Foreign Policy and could could had a handle on the minutia of the substance to that extent was extremely important getting. John Kerry. Also, a former you know expert foreign policy expert does senator who's now secretary state I mean, that is quite a quite a leadership team negotiating with all these different countries. Get them across the finish line on, and this is what is always astounded. Me Is that you know president trump wins in and I want to talk a little bit about that the president from Wednesday de election and he starts talking about the Paris climate agreement as if it's a mandatory agreement you know and and you know completely failing to recognize this was an opt in strategy every country in the world volunteered to take part in this in this climate. Agreement at. So again, unprecedented never never never achieved before yet. It that's and. And so after adoption, which like I said was because of A. a choice in the agreement where the agreement said shall in one case instead of should, and can I just say I remember we were actually in the one of the US breakout rooms with all of the reporters covering the Paris climate accord and there was a meltdown over those two words like right at the last minute I can remember Lisa Friedman. WHO's not the New York Times running around saying what what's going on here what is what Shell Shell will anyway? Yes, it was a yeah and. The the how how seriously we took this the question of. We want. We wanted desperately and achieved this. For this agreement that would have bipartisan support at home. And that were that's what that bird choice was really about was is this agreement going abroad the accessible to the American public? And it requires the agreement required to be brought. Acceptable was that the the targets were voluntary. And we determined what they were. Even if everything else was completely binding. And that's what that was about with the targets volunteer. And so secretary Kerry after the final, the final texts comes out. And France says, this is the final talks, take it or leave it. And there's a word in there that that Secretary Kerry realizes. Work, for the United. States. And we can't have another Kyoto Protocol. We can't have another agreement where everybody's in the United States is out gets to work right away on getting this word changed and talking to all of the countries picks up the phone starts calling other countries, foreign ministers, heads of state. We have to change this one word and then we'll be tired. and. And he succeeds he's there on the floor in plenary. With his arm around other negotiators talking about this word at you know the way that a senator would when you're doing the last minute negotiations on a on legislation and honestly secretary Kerry wasn't there that word. Would have blown up the negotiations because they're on the ground in Paris. We got it done this downing. I. Remember when I was right off the floor watching all that going down and we sort of knew what was happening and I guess people were holding their breath waiting to see. How all shake got. All right. So now let's talk about President. Trump's oh. Donald Trump wins the election. I think you know obviously took some people by surprise for whatever reason he decided that the Paris climate agreement was something he was going to his sites and there were some yet some some. Allowed Discount Political Hacks at the EPA, and elsewhere who really know wanted to go after the agreement. But there was an effort to try to keep the trump administration and the trump White House in the accord I know we. Re. I briefed a handful of CEOS who met with vodka trump met with jared Kushner who met with Gary Cohn who was then at the wet and others I mean you're involved in some of the that that effort is well where you you know hopeful that this would survive initially with the trump. White? House. So at that time, I moved to the national. Security Council in the White House will. got. Your actually. Agreement Yeah. So. After the Perez dotted I was was. Burn out I was exhausted I was done with this wanted to lead. And I was I was ready to go and then I got a call Christmas Eve that said, how would you like to come to the white? House And and you don't say you don't say none of that. So I went to go work now. Security. Council. which. I certainly don't regret one of the side effects of that. was that the nasty dirty? Council staff. Stays on in a in a transition. And so as devastated as I was by the election outcome The folks that I trust in the Obama Administration were dead serious that they don't want an incoming administration to have to have to start from scratch. They want seasoned experienced foreign policy people in the White House for whatever forever they need. United States given managing dozens of crises. You can't have a new NASCAR D. staff. On Day one it's never delegates choose these issues so they asked everybody to stay on. The trump administration wanted folks at time to stay on. And so that meant on January twenty first. I went from the women's March. on the mall to work at the White House. And I remember I drove my car that data to work, and I still had my on Hillary bumper stickers on. I didn't remember until I got into the off sounds like my car is in the. The The parking out of the White House right now and I've got the wrong numbers. So the first issue immediately was okay the president. has made this campaign promise to withdraw to in his words to cancel the Paris. So fortunately, it was not possible to quote canceled a period humor because of the last things that the president did. And the previous administration was to push the agreement into force. To make sure that it was had force of law around the world before the US election. And in fact, we succeeded in the pairs of your men went into force faster than any other international agreement has two years. So the agreements enforce. So the only question is, can the United States withdraw from the agreement? and at that time withdraw join only to other countries in not participating and those two countries were Syria in Nicaragua. So did we want to leave? The rest of the world behind joint Syria Nicaragua in rejecting the agreement. Obviously. I had view, which is at the United States should not withdraw but my role with the trump administration was basically to provide them with the factual basis for making that decision. What would it actually mean? To withdraw from the agreement. And ultimately, the proposal to win before the cabinet, in the trump administration was. That the agreement doesn't require much United States. Because those targets are are nationally determine. So what we could do? Is reduced the our target. And stay in the agreement and into doing what we would have is, yes, we'd have less ambition, but we can stay at the table in these negotiations which affect. Other foreign policy interests we have. It would help maintain our partnerships with countries in. Europe, for example. In. Japan in Canada and it would allow us to continue to. Use the agreement. To to manage. Our relationship with China. That was arguing, stay the table reduced the target if you must. But but. Eventually it became clear that even the cabinet was having a discussion on what's the benefit or cost of staying in that the president had made up his mind. Months ago. He did not want to stand the agreement, and now we know that part of that decision making was just based on the fact that. It was the previous presidents agreement. And so while I did have hope. That there is a way out of this. This situation with US staying in it became pretty clear pretty early on say March or April. That the president was not gonNa rain uneven and so. Various groups started talking and even as they were hopeful that the that president trump would keep the United States in. I think it was on a Friday he he goes into the Rose Garden and announces with some fanfare as only he can that the United States was going to withdraw from the Paris climate agreement. So literally, within twenty four hours you and several others you you know you're at the you're at the World Wildlife Fund at at that point and. A coalition of the Willing S- basically came together included in the beginning some governors Somare's some business CEOS some of the nonprofits that were involved So talk about the you know we are still in as a movement was born like seventy, two hours over the course of that weekend I mean you and I and some others were on some marathon phone calls. So talk about the birth of the we are movement and we then then we'll and we'll move to where we are still landing America's pledge and others are today but but talk a little bit about the birth of that in the in the literally within three days the three days after trump withdrew from the Paris climate agreement. Yes so when I joined World Wide Fund in. April. Of twenty seventeen. They're still distortive like. Will they won't they of the US government in Paris and it wasn't even so much at that time the president's Day in but could we at least delay decision? To a point where maybe there's an alternative I can that we we haven't seen, and so we'll find did imperishable the with other organizations like like serious was. We are strategy was actually to constantly update the business community on what was going on the Paris deliberations. In the reason for that was. We knew that there were many CEO's around the country that could pick up the phone and talk to president trump. And the truth is that they did. As soon as it became clear that this decision was in front of the president several CEO's not least of which is at Walmart and other major corporations. Act, called the president directly and said I think you should stay the agreement and not only because I think it's the right thing to do. But because of we as Walmart, our bottom line is impacted by climate change and if there's not an international solution to climate, change will do worse. So. CEOS had already gotten invested in the US staying in the reason why that was important. To engage them in the process was that when it became when it became clear that the president going to withdraw. The business community was. Felt ignored. They had made their vision quite clear as a whole. They want us to stay in the parish agreement even the Chamber wasn't saying with your offer Paris and so once the president announced, he was withdrawing the business community. was was frustrated. Joint you any sort of at at the same time or noticing that there were mayors and governors around the country who? Had committed to have been committed to climate change for a long time in also were were extremely frustrated with with the president's decision and I think this goes beyond sort of a normal political decision that had a state might make. Well now we think that there should be an individual mandate for health care. We don't. This is the president making a personal decision. About how he feels about an agreement that is gonNA impact as we know now, people's daily lives. What the president does with Paris is GonNa make fires work worse in the West End and I think that that type of reaction to something that happens in Washington. Can Breed cynicism. And make people feel hopeless. And what we really didn't want but you and I really didn't want. Was for people to watch the president withdraw on Paris and therefore give up on climate. Will we try. We had a global climate shame president killed it. So The other thing that was extremely important was, as I noted before this targets in Paris are giving our voluntary and so we were worried that if the US withdrew that other countries, we're not take their own target seriously that that was going to be there are back off and so we had the several ingredients which were a business community that was extremely frustrated mayors and governors from around. The country that wanted to voice their support for climate solutions and the needs to inspire the public that they could get involved in climate, and so we conceived of this thing called. We are still in were all of these entities we're going to be able to speak with one voice to the international community that they were gonNA. Make in their Paris. So we drafted the statement along with Bloomberg philanthropies. And I. Remember that we made this call over the weekend that well, if we don't have five hundred signatories by noon on Monday. We can't go live it would just be embarrassing. By noon on Monday, we remember that was a very arbitrary number by. Chat. Totally. As these things. that was based on nothing. We said it was five hundred or we're not going to go. So by noon on. Over. One thousand signatories and and the truth was that it wasn't so much that we came up with this idea and we burdette and launched it was that we sort of unleashed. This this passion from around the country wanting to own climate as an issue. And the truth is you know much of the action the systemic action climate occurs at the business level. You know you know. Wall. Walmart. COMMITTED TO REMOVE GIGI ton of carbon which is bigger than a lot of the less developed countries out of its supply chain. So action occurs at the business level of encourages the city level at occurs with state regulations and and those types of actors. So the fact that this very unusual coalition came together to say we are still in so in your view, what did they send a signal that you know to the international community the United States is going to try to remain in the Paris climate agreement. Yeah. I think what our goal was was not for the international community to Sink Oh everything's okay. You know there are other actors in the United States I care about climate or goal was just to make them understand that climate action. And the momentum towards reducing emissions with innocence. Unstoppable. that. That the president can even can you stop it and your point about won't mean Walmart the supply of Walmart has the same amount of emissions as France and. In Cal-. California on its own is the fifth largest economy in the world, and so when you look at this coalition, it has Country sized actors in it But more than that. It's not just this coalition of extremely powerful interest. It has it has like a coffee shop in Montana and small community colleges on the West Coast. And and virtually every president and I've every major university in the country and CEOS of major healthcare systems and. Mayors. During this coalition It is as close to a concensus coalition of the US economy as you can get on an issue, it is unprecedented have. The academic sector, the health sector, the businesses around the country over half the country's governors. Four hundred mayors all agree. On on something and yet, that's what the truth when it comes to address the crisis so now. Now move forward to you know were just a few weeks from the election just a week away from the first presidential debates to other efforts also began roughly at the same time. Bloomberg philanthropies stood up America's pledge which analyzed the sub-national. Contribution and has analyzed every year since you know how much? How close to the Paris climate agreement targets could this these subnational actors get and Su surprisingly America's pledges showed that we can get pretty close those targets without federal action. And then you also have the US climate alliance, which is you know more than half the governor's now who also committed. So you've got some very significant actors. You've got the makings of a very powerful coalition that is prepared to act regardless of who wins the election. So president trump ends the election and does withdraw from pairs literally the day after. The election they subnational actress you know at least on paper and and in theory have the ability to try to keep the United States in the Paris climate agreement. But if Joe Biden should win he said that he's got, you know signing the Paris climate agreement is going to be one of his first acts. So what can this coalition and it is a coalition? It is potentially very powerful coalition combined with Bloomberg plantlets. America's pledge effort and the US climates. How can this coalition force Washington to do more than just resign the Paris climate agreement Yeah so When I had said that when we launched, we are sign that we over a signatories and now we have four thousand that this coalition continues to grow four fold in in three or. Fourfold. Exactly. In three years and it's an every, there are members of the coalition in every state. In the United States and and frankly they're concentrated extremely important states. If you. If you looked at a list of where the most important Senate votes would be on any climate legislation, you can find about one hundred signatories. To, we are sowing in those states. So I think that the the question really before us right now is we know that these actors on their own. Can reduce emissions in in a way that you might not expect like you like you said, these national actors on their own could probably hit the US target on their by twenty twenty five. That's. That's astounding and and that says something about the United States works in general like you're saying these decisions are made by businesses by states or cities. But we also know that as you go forward in time. We can't get to the scale. Or scope of. Economic transformation that's needed. To actually address the crisis to get to two zero emissions by twenty fifty without a partner in in the federal. Government. And I think what's important is that these signatories these members of the coalition are not just GonNa. Wait to see if the federal government is going to reengage climate. day are active. Participants in the policy debate that's going on an even if the president is having this debate on what we do kind policy, it's still going on all the time in Congress and in another policy circles and so what I mean by that is as the US considers how to recover from. The current Cova crisis and the ongoing economic. Crisis that's had that's happening as a result. The government is GonNa Invest in some sort of stimulus effort it has to. How it uses to invest in that effort is going to have legacy effects for the climate that what what infrastructure the government uses to invest whether it's roads and highways or whether it's electric vehicles in public transportation. Is. A climate decision. Any stimulus bill, a climate bill for that reason. Right. It could I mean I I gotta believe that there's going to be a two or even three trillion dollar economic recovery package and the the the groups that have a vested interest in how that money is going to be spent. Many of them are are signatories of the we are still in coalition. Magnetic pledged so. Exactly and so I think you'll hear a lot of people speculating about based on this election outcome you have a chance that climate bill or maybe it's just a regulatory effort by the executive branch but I actually think that ignores maybe the bigger issue which is we know there is going to be recovery legislation in the United States we know it's GonNa be on the order of trillions of dollars. How do you? Make, Congress, and whoever is in the White House realize. That what the main players in the US economy want is an investment in the future. In that is already happening several thirty to forty largest businesses sent a letter to leaders on the hill in August saying they want investment in clean energy as per as part of the recovery four hundred mayors Santa Letter in twenty five governors similar letter. and. So what you're starting to see is this coalition is. No longer just about how we communicate to the rest of the world that climate change is climate action is alive and well in the United States. But how did they? How can they mobilize to become? As you were saying a powerful force for. Sustainability United States, and the reason why that is so important is that I think we all know that the reason the US is behind some of these other developed countries on its. Climate policy is because of. Money in politics and the fossil fuel interest in particular. In, the end their role in it. For, as long as we've been debating fining policy in this country, there has not been a coalition of actors that is as powerful. As. Those false interests have been for the last fifty years. If we are in with four thousand signatories in every state is able to fully activate in this way. I think. For the first time it's different ballgame. For. The first time we have a coalition that is able to. Influence on the size and scale that we have seen from the fossil ministry for less video and I have to say it is not just an environmental movement issue. At that point, you're talking about businesses that are now racing to reach net zero tar big huge globe straddling companies like Google and facebook and Microsoft committing to reaching net zero emissions by twenty thirty, some of. Them even reaching carbon positive emissions within in less than a decade. They're all part of the we are still movement. So it's a different kind of coalition. It's not just the World Wildlife Fund and the the usual leaders of the environmental moment. It's much much broader than that which which and said that changes the way this issue was debated in Congress I would I would add. Absolutely in I think there's one more. One. More. Ingredient that were adding now. That, I, honestly has been has been long overdue in the environmental community, which is, how do you bring in? A black and brown communities into this discussion of of environmental. Politics. we know that the environmental movements origins are. Often intertwined with white supremacy movements in the United States at the beginning of of less entry and so it's never been. it's never been an easy relationship between. The Environmental Movement and the Racial Justice Movement in the United. States I really starting to shift. and I think. One of the reasons it starting to shift is what you're saying is that climate change is not a typical environmental issue. It is not about a I apologize to my environmentalist friends it is not about saving als or Making sure that we have. National Parks, it is an issue that affects kitchen table issues effort for Americans. Can they breathe the Air Can they do they have jobs is the economy stable All of those things that we are seeing covid effect for us right now we're going to see on a much larger scale if climate change continues unabated. Couldn't agree more mean and or or flooding. If is your home, GonNa Flood Or. In the south, if you're anywhere along the coast, so I wanNA close this out with a are you hopeful it? So Twenty, twenty, one, this issues had a long climb to the top of the Democratic voters list. Now, at the top I think I, think lots of folks now get with this issue. The media clearly understands that they're covering the impacts are here now that this is more than just a niche environmental issue that it's you know truly important to the the growth of the economy as well as it could you know could potentially be you know A major blow to the US economy at the if if we don't act, are you hopeful? Are you hopeful going forward and twenty, twenty one and beyond You. You've been fighting this issue for quite a while now as well just like I have. I am by a constitution, not a very hopeful person especially because I found that four years ago I was pretty cool in. A found myself? Devastated. So so what I'll say is I think I think Americans. Are Waking Up to what is a very obvious case which is. If we don't manage the climate crisis We lose. Everything that that holds our daily lives together we lose economic stability, we lose the ability. To make choices for ourselves about where we live. And in particular, those impacts are going to harm black and Brown communities the most I think they're waking up to that because we're seeing it right now in covid. So I I think Americans are waking up to the crisis and second is the fortunate. The good news is managing. This crisis is possibly the greatest economic opportunity that the US in for a long time and so. If, we don't manage this crisis, we're facing economic devastation. If we do manage this crisis will see the US maintain its position as the largest economic superpower in the world opportunity for people that desperately not Jimmy Right now. You can't even help yourself. You are hopeful you just don't know. All right. Well Great. So I wanted to. Our guest, this week has been alone straight. He's the director of climate and clean energy programs the these of us, the US climate program at World Wildlife Fund it also previously been director climbing clean energy that the National Security Council and And, prior to that had worked at the State Department Paris climate agreement. So thanks very much for. Being a guest on on on the show this week. Thanks much. Rather be jet. Thanks for listening to this special episode of Climate Twenty, twenty a podcast about climate change in twenty twenty elections. Climate Twenty twenty is brought to you by the years project you can listen to it on apple podcasts or anywhere else that podcasts are carried. Until next time, I'm Jeff Nesbit with climate nexus. Hope you enjoyed it. Thanks very much.

United States president Paris Donald Trump China White House President Obama Secretary Kerry Joe Biden Secretary Climate Twenty twenty World Wildlife Fund government Senate White House Congress State Department
October 2nd 2019

Talking Tesla

10:19 min | 1 year ago

October 2nd 2019

"Hey leading your boys. Girls Smell hoped he took the second. It's a Wednesday and getting this time I think I hope I hope I think I think and I promise no EPA today. Okay enough of the Herbert just settled in. Hey gig victory three. Let's talk a bit very quickly so we know that was a mud pile in January and the production of the model three is supposed to occur in there in the next few weeks of Togo. Fourteenth is is the plan nail. The fly of is showing that there is a bad tained fifteen years something like that superchargers in the parking lot. We don't have a Tuesday threes a shoe. They can be V. Three's but you know what happens when you assume and there's another building that's going up really fast and we don't seem to know what it is. It seems to be another building. There was already another at the building and this seems like another building and it looks a little separate from the other buildings and so people are speculating wildly as I am. Could this be for model. Y could this be semi. I mean. Could this be this pickup truck. What could this be. We don't know I'm sure that things will start to leak out however and you know probably by the end of today you're done. that is October second. Probably by the end of today I think tomorrow we should have some numbers on how many Carrie Cars Tesla has made in the quarter now a lot of people a thinking that actually although they may break the number of cows the record of the number of cows that might there is an expectation amongst analysts and most of the time. I didn't listen to them but there's some expectation that actually revenue is going to go down that for whatever reason from these people seem to believe that three really is cannibalizing s which I totally get cannibalized my s. I can't wait to hand in my very very expensive loose on my s and get an expensive lease on three so I expect that that is true expected. That's GONNA come down. They've done some really nice things to the three to differentiate it. I mean the s yes to differentiate from three long range festivals cheese and all that kind of stuff. I don't think it's enough the the threes so good enough. We've had this discussion back and forth also with some view out there so we'll see. I'll definitely be looking at that. If this is a revenue drop it'll be the first revenue drop since two thousand and twelve and the good news is that why will help with this. Why will hope because it's GONNA use a lot of the same parts and hopefully therefore they'll be able to make it for about the same as the model three the and maybe less because they're getting new stamping stuff in there and instead of having seventy sort of different things you stamp and then weld together? They're gonNA try and do it as one big thing so that's the kind China thing that could bring down their cost and in why if you could do it for about the same as three you can sell a wife for a significantly more ten percent more whatever because you know yeah people just used to paying more for that crossovers UV. It's the car that right now people really want so they'll be able to make up some significant ground there and I suggest this Tesla are you listening. Is this thing on. I suggest you do this. You should do a bit of profit taking on idiots like me. Come out with a Model Y. That's a very long range version a four hundred plus range version and stick it to us not ridiculously because people won't bow but no charge judge the full amount plus a bit more so that these can also be very long range vehicles for idiots like me that probably don't need it but really want it because there is a lot of long-range driving. We're going to do and it would be nice. Stick it to us a little bit not too much and get some profit out of his way. There are some people I know that really do need a lot of range. They are a long way from anyway or they do long camping trips and I go deep deep deep into the back and so they really looking long range so I really do think that there is a significant significant subset of people that will pay significantly more for longer range all right. I'm just saying is this thing on. Is this thing on some Lettuce Azeem. None let us for wall and I might have missed a few but let's try and catch up first one's from Aaron Morgan an Aaron sent me a thing from the World Wildlife Fund which is all about carbon offsets do work which ones super long super detailed and I'm actually going to get into it at another time. It's going to be one of those times. When I have a long weekend. Put the feet it up with a glass of shoddy because there's a lot of useful information in there so Aaron thank you and if you're looking for this thing. I'll put a link in the notes that are the show and Aaron also says by the way I love the show. Make sure you keep it going well. I'M GONNA try but it's a lot of work. then we've got an email from Kevin I was was talking about what's going on with gigafactory and the roof in particular the fact that it's uneven thirty percent complete the whole tone and the fact that we're all the solar panels that are supposed to be there and it turns out there was a picture gotcha and apparently it's real of solar panels on the roof of gigafactory one right now in the shape of Weiner. Yes somebody was having fun with their solar panels and put it in the shape rape of a Weiner. Apparently everybody likes a good Weiner. Jerk Craig Robinson said you know this problem. Just doesn't seem to go away again. There's there's a picture of a very long the pulled up in front of Tesla supercharge taking at ten of the twelve charges. What should Tesla do about this. This two issues here one yeah I think is there are some people who frankly they just for. Whatever reason got a bee in their bonnet about some thing that Tesla is doing wrong. I think it has is to do with the fact of carbon carbon offsets but COBB and there is this sort of fake news thing about the effect. Tesla is getting sucking off the teat of the American Tax Pat for example when in fact there it is so much less than the billions and trillions of dollars of the the oil and gas industry and getting less and less all the time soon to be apparently zero so that's part of it but also I think it's ignorance. It was a story recently where there was a big commenting and all these people packed in the Tesla charging stations in a couple of Tesla owners came and said Hey could you move your car or need to charge and the people like Oh sorry. My bad didn't realize so. I think it's both ignorance. People don't really know that these really need to be kept open for tests and the other schmuck so what what should tesla do better. I actually think it continues to be a problem or if it gets worse then there needs to be some kind of a physical barrier to stop you being out of parking near unless unless you want to Tesla so I know that some places have been testing those will you have some sort of springing springs up and you count pocket there unless sure on a test and then you'd have some button in your test our new president and it would flip it down and then you could go in there if this continues to be an issue they may have to do something like like that and finally sore an elman sore an Omaha Soren Hansen sent me a video to watch which is I don't know if you remember a couple of weeks weeks ago. I was talking about the fact that I had obsessive compulsive disorder and what I do is I plugged in when there's lots of coming in and then unplug them when in there's not much going in and I'm trying to fill the battery as well and I don't want to plug the current nights when I get home because then that will just drain the battery because the battery in the car is much biggest battery in the home so I spent a lot of time obsessively compulsively trying to get as many renewable electrons straight into my car and like today it was a great example Super Sunny Day now isn't cool which really solar panels like and by any day because I have a pretty system out of top three cows and and Philip my Powell which is about forty kilowatts of capacity. I've got three of them and that was all done by twelve and then for the rest of the day I was making like pain twelve in your kilowatts in sending it to the grid so I like to do that but wouldn't it be cool if you didn't have to. If you could set up a few parameters on your APP saying like when it's sunny and I'm making excessive energy wjr child's of the cars I'll leave them plugged in and charge the the wall and if the sun goes down and the car has X. percentage of energy than don't worry about it. Just you know make the first priority filling up the powells and that kind of thing and this gentleman here in this video geek apparently took Adua no and a basically did this for himself. I can't do that but it shows that. This can be done this kind of thing can be done and I fully expect inversions versions in the future when you've got your solar and you get your powells and you get your car and you got whether tracking and all that stuff that you'll be able to basically really optimize is using just the energy that you're creating to fill up your stuff first and then if you have any access to send it out into the grid so ladies and Gentlemen Boys Angles. My name is mel hub. This show is called Ilan daily. It's part of the token has a network of shows. You should go on to become a patron because we're such good people. We need to keep doing this and give us a rating and review and and there's a new website coming. We're going on a new website. Just want pretty up a little bit and make it so that it's easier for me you to update so it can put up some videos and stuff and not have to bug anybody else because that'll just be more efficient so that's coming sent. Don. It's much too little update. Opt Tamar wasn't that lovely no eber Taylor swift suckers teas and live free one looked worse in the US so many lines the on foot. I'll tell you the truth but never could actually but that reminds me and I can't find who sent me this letter but somebody said hey mill talking. Tesla is not on spotify but by the path visited me found a way to do it on spotify now. Let me know if you have any problems with it but in all its glory on spotify in your What could be more delicious talk tomorrow?

Tesla Carrie Cars Tesla Weiner Aaron Morgan Togo spotify Tesla EPA Herbert China Tamar World Wildlife Fund US Don Craig Robinson Ilan daily Soren Hansen COBB Philip my Powell
#58: Is Faith Sustainable?

Important, Not Important

1:19:51 hr | 1 year ago

#58: Is Faith Sustainable?

"Yeah. Welcome to important, not important. My name's cornet. And my name is Brian Colbert. Kennedy. And this is the tenth St. episode were teddy as not here as ten really. Yeah. I think so Jesus. Yeah. She's one. This. This is the podcast where we dive into a specific topic or question affecting everyone on the planet right now. Or in the next ten years, I think kill us or turn us into crisper. Robots? We are in our guests have been scientists doctors engineers politicians, astronauts, a Reverend you heard me, right. And we work together toward a action steps that our listeners can take with their voice their vote and their dollar. That's right. And this is your friendly reminder that you can send questions thoughts dreams, visions. Nightmares? Any of those things feedback in general to us unto eter at important, not IMP or you can Email us at fun talk at important on porn dot com. This week's episode Brian asks is faith sustainable question too. Is that a click bait title it is. So you're welcome. Our guest is the magical tequila Chung yelp bus. She's the founder of the loca initiative at the university of Wisconsin, Madison, which is an education outreach platform for faith leaders and religious institutions focusing on environmental issue. Who's the Quila is a trained scientist and Buddhist who hails from the Himalayas. She's worked at the World Wildlife foundation and Yale university's she speaks five languages. No big deal. One fewer than me, and she combines her passions for conservation and faith-based work to try and save the whole kit and caboodle whole thing. Whole thing. She she was wonderful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very very inspiring. Like me a fan of lists parolling. She likes lists. She's like lists of people. She appreciates. Because like, hey, if you're gonna make a list that's great good when she's full of gratitude. Yeah. She's a hell of a legal through your day in your life. You know, she's cool. I love talking to these people who believe in God. But who are also so smart and dislike want every human on the planet to be. Well. Please please do better yet. Just come on come on. Again. I appreciate it her perspective. Like, some of the other faith-based folks, we've talked to from wide variety of of. A faith in religion, such which is like can we just please forget the other nine things that we fundamentally disagree on and just work on this one thing, and we can get back to all that shit. Right. After we save we do this thing, which has the tick tock tick tock. Yeah. And then it goes, boom. So anyways, great conversation with the gala, and we're we're excited to present it to you. Let's listen to it. Our guest today is the Quila Chung JABA and together we're going to ask kind of a loaded. Crazy question is faith sustainable, and and of course, that applies through our prism of of the planet in the species and all those fun things Deke la-, welcome. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Very excited to head Brian especially very. Tequila, if you could just tell us and everybody briefly who who you are. And what you do. I am an environmental scientist that has turned fringe. I think I had a very traditional conservation background. I come from the Himalayas, and you know, had this deep love for wildlife and wilderness areas going up in wilderness for lots of my childhood and went to school got my degree started working for the World Wildlife Fund immediately and went out back to the Himalayas and the maycom region. And in that process, I got more and more and more depressed. Basically, I started working on community based conservation, which is really at the community level. And thought that would make this enormous difference. Because what we were doing is trying to get basically, stay colder by in four communities. So that they had the rights do natural resources. And of course, after some time, I realized that wasn't really addressing the problem in terms of urgency and in terms of scale, right when you think about forest degradation, or, you know, just poaching and trafficking or climate change all of that. It was just like these tiny little wins when we were looking at massive scale problems. So I then switched and took the job to become the director for the maycom region. WWF US, which is river basin wide. It's five countries. You know, it's the most beautiful river in on on the planet. Just amazing diversity and thought this is the right scale like this is it we need to work. You know, transboundary we need to work with governments. We need to work with all kinds of different stakeholders, it cannot only be communities government and then over five years of working on. Hydropower and climate change slowly had that same experience that God this is still not fast enough. And this is still not extreme enough really to address the issues we were facing with at that time. It was really the hydropower issue right in the make Kong and obviously the gadget. Level of resources better stacked against people who want to talk about sustainable hydropower is staggering. And so I was at this point. I think of real crisis in a way when I went to visit my family, and as usual my family dragged me to both gay. Oh, where our annual pilgrimage happens for Tibetan Buddhists. I come from a family of staunch to Ben. But this and my lineage is all about actually interesting a meditating in wilderness areas, and I had this Piff Pitney because they're the this teacher who's the head of my lineage. His name is the Karmapa. He started talking about vegetarianism. And now I've been trying to be a vegetarian for years just. Failed miserably, right. So he was talking about it in terms of Buddhism. And what he said is how many of you take this do this prayer every day. And it's literally like every single tomato knows this prayers. The most basic prayer, which is which translates to may I ease the suffering of All Saints and being's right and be seemed like like is just comes out of a mouth all the trims. And he said how many of you think of that when you are eating, and how many of you look at the food on your plate and realize that you are eating the flesh of living beings that died to feed you, and how is it that this isn't how do you not see the dissonance was what he was saying. So he looks. I know he put this challenge. And he said, I became a vegetarian, and he hardcore came from Tibet when you was you know, in his teenage years so for him it's even harder because that's basically the diet into bed. And he said, I became a vegetarian how many of you would consider becoming vegetarian and think of it as as your practice as you put this practice. I just watch my hand go up, you know. And so there were two parts of me. There was this very deeply moved emotional the inner being right? The inner that thing that's inside of us that you know, the subconscious. Let's eighty percent of human decisions made by the subconscious. And there was like my hand went up. And then there was the brain and the scientists that was looking at the head going what what is going on. It was were housing of fans. It was and my brain was just like how I am doing this not out of climate science not out of my knowledge, not about all the facts and figures, I know about how much water is wasted, you know, through the production of beat none of it. This is coming as an act of faith. And he was just like, I don't know. I don't know how to describe it really an epiphany like a sweet just went off in my head, and that was in two thousand seven and so I met his wholeness, and he is actually a very avid environmentalist. And so. He asked me to create environmental guidelines vote his monasteries and nunneries there over two hundred under him that are spread across Malays in Tibet. And so I thought it would just be this two week vacation that while I was with my family. I just turn out this draft that you know, married, but this philosophy with the science to explain what was happening in the Himalayas in particular climate change because people are seeing the difference. It's very visible very tangible for the pieces, but you know, there was no framework for it. Right. And what they hear on the news, just paralyzes them. And so he wanted a way out and he wanted monks and nuns to become solution the solution and in that process. I just completely converted and had this realization that, you know, in some sense like my training as a scientist had pulled me so far away from talking about the things that mattered like lie. Sacred values, and you know, even emotions or even even things like sadness like how easy it is. For us to talk about our anger and how impossible it is for us as professionals to talk about our sadness. Right. You must like all of the suddenly just stacked up, and and so I came back to WWF and lobbied predicts months and got a program called sacred earth. Eventually and basically worked with faith leaders around the world for five years. Very the longest. No those. But it's, but but that context is vital. Because look we have plenty of people on all incredible scientists or movers and shakers at are either trying to upgrade the species or sewer save us. And you know, there's a fair amount that are like oh. And then I decided to go to school for science, and I did it and I've worked hard, and there's this and this, and that's great. That's all commendable and hard to do. And we're so appreciative. It's something that people can recognize an an empathy is with because either they did it themselves. They know someone who did or something like that your history is just a little bit different from most of our listeners because they were not born in the Himalayas, right? And we're not raised in at the button family or anything like that at. And that perspective is is why we're here today. Right. And what you've done with it. Yeah. So once I do want to bring it back to before. I forget is that for me that experience in that epiphany of realizing that faith can move people to do something that is fantastic for the planet was just staggering. Because I when I realized what I realized was it wasn't just a blind spot for me. It was a blind spot from my entire conservation community there were so few people who were reaching out to faith leaders. You know, who we're talking to religious institutions? And now, this is where I would love to launch into why we need to work with faith eaters question. Don't worry. We're gonna we're gonna get. Are you still a vegetarian by the way, I have been for ten years? But last year, I ate a little meat. And now I bring it in once in awhile, but and this brings me back to Tabet in medicine might've been doctored insists, I must eat a little meat. So it's better than you know. I'll probably go right back. I also got diagnosed with Lyme disease, and I have the product version, which I think is karmic because talk about a disease that really, you know, you're looking at impacts of climate change. And just it's amazing. Right. So I actually think it's very karmic got the Sonos, but it brought me back to having to give up like gluten and dairy and sugar and not getting enough protein. So so. All right, Brian. All right. Quick reminder for everyone our whole goal with this podcast. These conversations is to provide us some quick context for a question at hand. And then dig into some action oriented questions that get to the heart of why we should give a damn about this. And and what everyone out there can do about it. If that's good to you. We can push on. Wonderful. All right. So listen we start with one important question here. And I feel like you will be entertained by this with your background. So instead of saying, hey, tell us your whole life story. Yada, yada. That's not the point. We're looking forward, but we do like to ask both practically. But also, I guess we could say spiritually tequila, why are you vital to the survival of the species? This is. But this question who came up with? This is like one of those exercises. We have to do like imagine, you're dead. Terms with your entire life. Does have meaning. Good luck. To be bold, and honest and don't worry. You're not the first ones have laughed at us. I will say most people turn around and by the end of the answer by the answer. They go. Oh shit. I'd never really thought about that. Right. You. So what I'm saying is you're welcome. Okay. Okay. So I know for the first part of my life. I think I would have said it is to basically protect the planet in any which way I can write seeing very much myself as a in some sense, I suppose, let's say a protect protector. But lately what I realize more and more, and this has been something I've been working on for the last five to six years is that actually I think I'm here for my community, and that is the community of environmentalists, and, you know, climate scientists and conservationists because we are suffering so deeply, and you know, it's almost a chronic joke that field conservationist turned into alcoholics. You know? This is like we joke about it all the time in in a infield conservation. But the reality is there's now tons of studies showing that PTSD is very common that we are seeing symptoms of PTSD among environmentalists. And and conservationist, right. And for me, you know, I read this paper by Glenn outbreak two. I don't know if you've read him, but he's environmental philosopher of Australia, and he Queen does term called Sala stasio, which I try and speak a lot about specially with the younger generation of conservationists because what he talked about was this deep sense of grief that we are going to watching the degradation of the planet and his argument for why that happens to environmentalists is because environmentalists have expanded the sense of self beyond their body. So you know, we tend to at a very young age have somehow incorporated something outside of a body with with our identity. So it could be a river. It could be a species it could be the entire planet. It could be a tree, you know. But whatever it is. It is this deep connection that we feel with nature. So when that extended self is harmed, we feel it as if we were harmed. And but because we don't have that philosophical framework we unable to deal with that. Right. It usually turns into anger turns into recommendation, it turns into a lot of, you know, judgment and rage against people who vote certain ways, right? Like, we we are unable to see it in the larger framework of will this is because it is. So deeply personal to me. And most people don't understand that who don't have that experience. So for me, the decision to work with faith leaders has ended up being this process of getting people to talk about dare spirtual connection to the earth. And I find that it doesn't matter. What you know, how eighth he is state. Let's say a scientist is ultimately when we talk about it in these broad terms. What shows up quite often is that most people had a spiritual awakening in a natural setting. Like, we can remember rent be fell in love with the planet. Right. Whether it was you watched I don't know a spacecraft, you know, of you from a rocket of the earth away. Whether it was you were walking in a forest with your father, or whether it was like, you were in a cave with your mom and shivering all the time. Could be it could be any one of those things. But we remember it because there was this moment of spiritual connection that we had an I think I think in having that conversation is healing to us because we have to find a way one of the things. Okay. I'm I'm really going to go one of the things that I really struggle. With is how western education has forced us to cut that relationship off in the process of studying nature. We actually objectify it. And then we we remove it ourselves from it, right? To study it we think humankind is almost outside of nature, and that that dynamic is really really hard. Because I think what we do is. We cut off the one thing that actually Keells us, which is this pre the spiritual connection to the earth. And as an indigenous person, you know, as a, but this is actually I realize it is very easy for me to see that. And to to connect with that. Because. Ultimately, we don't have this complicated level of guilt. And shame and all of those things that come in. I think when it comes to, you know, specially Judeo Christian traditions and conservation or nature eight. And so it's easier for me to point it out and say, no, it's actually a psychological thing. And there are tons of studies showing that sitting for three minutes in nature is going to bring you it it, you know, it increases mental health Sherman. The Japanese learner their psychotherapy is is literally forced while. I think the called force best when it's incredible. Yeah. Please continue. Yeah. So so so I think in the last few years, I realized that you know, I started working with faith leaders because I thought this was one of the missing pieces and bis would could create action on climate and on conservation at a scale bet me or an NGO or or even a scientists community. Couldn't right. I mean, eighty percent of the world is religious, you know, the United States over nine out of ten people say, they believe in God, you know, poll after poll it shows up. So we in some sense have to realize that we are not maybe not the right embassador for these people's engaging faith leaders to me is being able to address people at scale. But in the last five or six years, actually, I'm sort of entering the space of realizing that you know, it it's not just for the planet. It's for us and our mental health, and which is partly why I've moved to university of Wisconsin, Madison. And I'm now. Building this program at the center of wellbeing. Right. Yeah. Well, I I think that's fascinating in does clearly offer such a unique perspective compared to host folks in general, much less. Most folks working in the. An and others. You know, of course, battles over this. The this the schism with environmental slash climate or environmental or climate, you know, in in what that means. But for a lot of us preserving recognizing preserving in cherishing that nature is is a fundamental part of or how we got into this work. So that's awesome. Let's let's dig a little bit into the context today real quick. So this isn't the first time we've talked about the role of faith in quote, unquote, religion in protecting the earth and building towards a more sustainable and certainly more equitable future. And that's not just across the US. That's everywhere because because we can big into more and we've talked about on previous episodes, and we've talked about our newsletter places. Like, the Himalayas are facing extremely unique. And and honestly just harrowing circumstances coming down the pipe with glaciers and drinking water and things like that. So everybody's getting it everywhere. That's kind of where we are. Right. One might not immediately equate a religion, and or faith and climates in climate science. Come on coffee. Come on. There's a long history of support. Right. And we've talked about this and and conflict, of course, among them. But but many of the early scientists and scientific expeditions and endeavors were funded and supported by religious institutions, right. And and much of that goes back to an edict in the bible, commonly interpreted to instruct the faithful to take care of the earth. But of course, that's just western religion. Which is not what we're digging into today because it's just a small slice of the planet. But we have some history here too, as we're firm believers pun intended in bringing everyone that we possibly can onboard to help fight back. We're not quite at a whatever means justify the end. But we're get pretty damn close to it at this point. So an episode four we talked to Reverend Mitch Hess Cox about mobilizing Americans. Chris. Population in two hundred missionaries a Mitch, of course, came recommend that episode enough because he talks about coming from a long line of coal miners. He had the he has the degree himself and did the work himself on has turned himself into a leader in American climate work by. You know, I'll mangle this. But it's like his dad is grandpa is uncool the whole. Yeah. So I don't Mitch a little bit. Yeah. It's just incredible. But again, they aspect is. So unique his he is so valuable because of that as a missionary and episode twenty nine we talked with Jose Gustavo about the current pope's leadership on climate, both are are recognized leaders among their flock and further what about and this is where we're going to get to what you're building in a religious leaders and institutions who might not have that unique perspective or that a ha moment or quote, unquote, come to Jesus moment or have they built in education or capacity for discussing or tending to the environment. Right. They already have such immense influence in many cases on a hyper local ever were personal action can be most impactful, so so we start to think about boy, there's a huge segment, of course. It's very diverse, but a huge segment of people with so much influence. How do we get them on board? And once we've done that. How do we get them up to speed and? And I I if I'm if I if I've got it, right? It seems like that is particularly what you're working on now. So if you could tell us a little bit about what you're building. And then how it works, basically. Okay. So you know, when I said I began working with his holiness, the Karmapa in two thousand seven than I created these environmental guidelines, really what happened was something that was completely unexpected. He gave me four or five months to our quit who avai senior Tibetan Buddhism has its own PHD system. Right. And so I was working with these basically doctors in Tibetan philosophy. And in that process of designing this very simple booklet of environmental guidelines and sharing it with the monasteries. We started getting so much feedback from the monks and nuns saying they wanted a training that it wasn't enough that they were just reading this. So impromptu out of nowhere. Somewhere in two thousand eight I just created this five day workshop like what we would do, you know, Innova western educated system, you know, in in that process of like project, planning and community design and so on and just ran through these five issues, and the response was amazing. So it basically snowballed into a movement. The pro the association is called core you and they're over fifty to bend. But this monastries from India, Nepal and Putin that are doing really good conservation work and climate work. And so it's been ten years now. And what I see is monks and nuns that challenge this idea, you know, to but spends a lot of time talking about emptiness, right? We spend a lot of time looking at some Sarah kind of creating a distance from some Sarah. So there is this very natural philosophical hump that you need to get over before you can convince anyone to act, and so what I imagined was that this was. Mostly Accua, radical and intellectual exercise, and what emerged was this cadre of monks nuns. He no in the hundreds and hundreds and now thousands who have gone through this training that wanted to get out there and do something. So these monasteries do everything from, you know, tree planting to cleaning up rivers to going out and cleaning their with their community, which shocks all they learned people. You know, doing putting solar on the roofs and doing really really good disaster-management work. So for the last three years because of the earthquake in Nepal in two thousand fifteen and then because of this anticipation of climate change impacts in Malaya's, the monasteries asked that we focus just on disaster management. So all of these monasteries have disaster preparedness plans, they have EMT's made of monks and nuns that know how to do first aides that know how to build stretches with their own robes. You know, they are trained to be first responders. And when you. Think of it in that way. What institution is more prepared for disaster than a religious institution that is used to feeding hundreds of people at a time that stores a lot. Lot of food tends to store water right has a whole group of people that have already identified purpose in life to help other people. And so in that sense. It's it's just the power of that is immense and what I see more and more is how it affects communities around them. So what we have now seen a quite often. Unfortunately, I haven't done a quantitative study. Although it's on my list is that when monastries put solar on their roofs, usually the hotels and restaurants in that area start to copy them. And so there is something that I think this power, of example, because again, like I said monasteries, you know, have large numbers of people that come and live there that they have to feed and take care of. So typically, they put the solar in the kitchen and the hotels that are dealing with similar problems. Look at the. Monastries and go, oh, I didn't think that was cost efficient. But now that you're doing it. Maybe I'll do it. So seeing the same thing with rooftop water harvesting as well. And so for me that that process of seeing this change over the ten years is one of the most hope giving experiences because I'm involved a, you know, elbow deep, and it is my community. But similarly, I see it all over the world power faith eaters have in influencing behavior and reminding people to keep to their commitments when they do make commitments imagine imagine that like all the would have all the churches, all the all the churches and all the pastors and all the churches in this country. Started started that started putting solar panels on the rooftops of the drifters teaching all that. I mean, the country would change in fucking heartbeat. Right. And there's been this argument an immature to keep these conversations fairly timeless, but or evergreen, I should say. But there's been this argument online, which is not something I should ever start a sentence with or. It should be really good red flag. But among people I really respect in the movement who who've hugely varied backgrounds and perspectives about essentially, and again, you can keep going down the rabbit hole of all these find arguments on every side. And I do try to see all sides of it. Which is look the greatest the greatest effect. We can have to slow down climate change are these hugely commercial and institutional changes that need to be made. Correct. Mass transportation changes mass buildings shipping. All these things production of a fossil fuels et cetera et cetera. Right. It's like you put on your roof. It's not a big. It's not a big deal. And and and and their point is like, oh, we always tell people to do this. When in fact, it doesn't really do anything. It's not a lot. But but which is which is fair. And then the are the argument is, oh, well, that's a very easy thing to say to white people because they can afford to do it. What about the people don't even have trees in their neighborhood and their and their urban neighborhoods are a thousand degrees because they can't. Down tonight and they can't afford air conditioning. Yes. All of that is true. But to me what is important in. It seems like this is kind of what you're talking about a little bit is the notion of having skin in the game. Which is if I'm I feel like I have a leg to stand on. If I am doing all these little things that I I'm I'm I'm probably aware. I mean, I am. But I I can't say most people are probably like just don't disa typically add up to much I put some solar panels on my roof. That's that's a, you know, it's come down price big expense. I recycle. I drive a plug in. Maybe not a full EV. I'm looking at it. And maybe next for years all these different things. I try to walk. I try not to eat too much meat. Try not use too much dairy. Right. Not having the world's biggest effect in the world. But what it does give me is this ability from me to call my Representative or to my pastor or to look at this the store this commercial enterprise. It's us. Attendant energy or for blowing pollution and and say like, hey, man, I'm doing my part. Right. It might not be much. But you gotta do something. And that's a little to me. It just gives you a little more room for a little more skin in the game to to say. Like, I'm I'm I'm doing this it we're all doing this. You have to make the big changes like yours as much harder. We're doing it. So I get where. Yes, it's not thing. But but it does bleed down and it does make your neighbor show. Like, all I'm I'm a shitty person. Maybe I should put solar on my roof. You know, something it's. But I don't think of it as either or right? Like, of course, change because my God these systems I mean starting with colonialism and Neo liberalism have been set up to ravage the earth like we need systemic pain that systemic change doesn't mean that individuals cannot also act. I mean, for example, I think maybe the the industry that makes the most sense when I talk about individuals, besides air air travel is textiles, you know. Lillian tons of carbon more than international flights, and I think shipping, right? And and when you think about what is thrown at us in terms of advertising, it's an at this point is over five thousand ads a day that we consume passively. So how do we then counter this what we have basically in the fashion industry, which is toria culture. I don't know what it's like full guys. But shopping as a woman is just horrifying because everything is polyester. It's a police to world. And so my wife doesn't let me shop for myself to start with we've seen what happens when it's just sweatshirt. She's like enough. So that's the first answer from my perspective. Yeah. It's it's it's a nightmare. And that's why have so much respect for these companies like Patagonia that say like the one of their heads is literally like don't buy our stuff. Right. You use it forever. And if you're not going to give it back or give it to someone who's gonna use it or we'll fix it for you. And obviously, they're not the biggest company in the world. But that kind of leadership makes such a difference. And there's all these other companies springing up like Rossi's with shoes and things like that. That are saying like, look this is a huge problem. And we have explicitly not told you it's a problem. And so you don't know that you know, I would I would wager to say. If I know I'm making is that when these companies look at us, they don't say always just one individual. And it doesn't make a difference. Right. They see us as mass consumerist because we we put the money down. The argument that individuals are weak, and, you know, focusing on individual action takes too long is I think an argument that actually puts money in the pocket for these corporations to because that's it. They might say that, but they the opposite of that by marketing to us and by putting all these ads to us. So for me, it really comes down to who is equipped to address them at a level that that this issue needs to be addressed, which is at a holistic moral issue. And which is really about choices and making choices that are, you know, not how you and I would talk about it, which is like choices that are healthy for the planet and that ensure our future, and that is going to bring down carbon levels and LaLa Laurie. That really is about choices that bring you more happiness, and that is how faith eaters. Thing feed leaders think about what brings mental wellbeing what being spiritual well-being, what brings community wellbeing if we are able to convince them that blind consumerism and throw away fashion is actually a moral issue. It is an issue that degrades the sole degrades the spirit, we are then able to talk about individual action at scale. It can it can grow to scale. And that's what one of the one of the few benefits of things like social media in two thousand nineteen. I much damage is done. You see things like the women's March on and what has happened, and and those things can can come to life don't always shouldn't necessarily all the time. But can come plan. I mean, look at the kids the kids. No. You know, I'm getting the age where I've I've got a few friends that are a little bit older. And they'll say things like he's kids are getting ahead of themselves who whose businesses at this at this for them to be doing this. They can't even vote, and it's like, that's the point. They're going to be the longest, and they can't even vote and they're doing this. What are you doing? It is wildly inspiring. Hey, Brian question. I'm listening. Yep. You shower, right? What you clean your house? Yes. All right. What's happening? You're also barreling towards a marriage and one would assume subsequently fatherhood if not in that order, correct? I guess what? Did he let me ask you a question? Okay. The fourth question for for all of those things cleaning your body, which has become so nice cleaning your house, which I've never been to never been invited to and feeding and bathing your daughter. I don't have a child you can come over whenever you want shirt. But for all of those things you want the best, right? You only use products that are deeply rooted in quality, transparency and community driven values. You want better stuff and yet to spend fewer dollars. Well, yes, of course. Right. Let me tell you something when it comes to choosing a product that's better than the rest. Brian just one label matters. And it's brand Lewis. Okay. Let me tell you something about fatherhood. Babies need such a unbelievable amount of stuff so much stuff. And a lot of it has to be replenished often. And that means you go to hell, and that very specific Ellis sorting through applesauce in diapers and wipes and facial scrubs. At a big box store like nine PM. It's a nightmare situation. Here's things I'm interested in when it's nine or three or whatever. And I need family supplies, organic Fairtrade vegan whenever possible not tested on animals. Nontoxic cleaners. I'm talking organic applesauce maple syrup olive oil green tea body wash lemon for being a surface cleaning wipes, brownie mix. I mean, I'm not going to lower. My stand body washed sounds nights. Also, I love brownies and all of us sounds very very good. Is there something that you were trying to tell me though, do you know that I'm having a kid before? I know that I might make it doesn't matter. Here's the clincher. Right. I need that stuff. Now like yesterday and brand Brandis offers better few items like those. At a better price shipped directly to you again, all very reasonable prices. Are that actually sounds very interesting, and I would just like to have a newborn now. So that I can use grandma. But you haven't even heard the best part, Brian. Oh Lewis gives back and gives you better way to join them every time you check out and buy diapers again. I cannot explain to you. How many diapers they need brainless donates a meal to someone facing hunger? Boom. All right. That's awesome. I think I'm gonna call them gopher and we'll make baby right now. I love that. That's a spirit. So right now, our listeners can receive ten dollars off first orders of fifty dollars or more at brand Louis so go to brand list dot com, code listen. Start saving on high quality products. So be like me guys and gals. Don't wait a second long ago to brainless dot com. Enter the code, listen and get ten dollars off your first order of fifty dollars or more and start enjoying high quality products. You deserve today. Let's talk about the the loca initiative. We know where does it start, and what are the identification induction processes like? So basically, I when I finished that WWF I was given a fellowship at Yale, and I moved there, and I spent three years trying to think about how could we support faith eaters and provide them the capacity they needed, you know, four feet eaters who are already interested in in protecting whether they call it creation or the planet but protecting the earth, right and protecting nature. And I realized that I was really struggling honestly speaking, I was really struggling in academia because ultimately, I am an activist. And I am a conservationist and I want action, right? But there is a newer, scientists called Ritchie Davidson at over at university of Wisconsin, Madison. And he's the guy that basically a studied improved how the brain literally changes in due to meditation. So. Very interesting work. I totally encourage you guys to to look at what he does than invite him fantastic. Twenty two things that has got me and kept me on using a us heads base most of the time for for my meditation, and knowing that there's real science, and what it has been proven is really impressive. Yeah. Yeah. So he's yeah. Exactly. That's what the center of healthy minds has focused on. And so he, and I he we've been friends for a long time. But I was telling him about this this struggle. I was having to create an education and outreach platform for faith leaders and religious institutions at scale because what had happened over the ten years was I just ran around, and you know, over Skype was trying to to answer the questions, faith leaders have and one of the things that people assume about faith leaders that turns out to be completely untrue. Is that they are impractical. You know in reality Peters of the most practical hardheaded Kupa people have ever met their questions are always about how much is this gonna cause how much my resource can I put towards this can you guarantee the output? We have our very technical. And ultimately, what it comes down to is that they want to know where they can make the biggest difference would whatever funding they have. And how can they guarantee a a positive output? And that obviously requires somebody to sit with them and do the entire mapping exercises into project design, and you know, Trenton analysis and all of that. And what Ritchie said was okay, bring it bring it to university of Wisconsin, Madison, and we will figure out how to make it happen. And so we launch in may and we've been working on it for the last nine months and the platform, basically is open to faith leaders from all traditions, including and I really want to emphasize including indigenous traditions. The idea is that we have four pieces to it. The first is basically symposiums and meetings that happened between scientists academics. Policymakers business leaders public. Ella and faith leaders behind closed doors to have these really honest conversations about what works what doesn't wear they comfortable where they not where do they need help? Some of them might want to publicly announce a partnership, some of them, don't, you know, I have worked with evangelical leaders in the past who never wanted to say that they were working with the big we'd NGO right? So it's an opportunity to build trust and build collaboration. And then the other piece the second piece is online classes that's available to anyone in everyone. And the idea behind that is that we're trying to talk about end and stitch together mental wellbeing community wellbeing, and planetary wellbeing as one conceptual course, you know, that it that there shouldn't beat this distict distinction, and that when we think about our lifestyles, and the lifestyles mindful lives lifestyles, we have to live all those three things need to be considered. And so that's part of. That course, the third piece is probably the piece that I think. Inc. Are I hope will benefit faith leaders. The Morris specially from third world countries, which is the idea of providing a certificate course, designed for them that could environmental science education and religious and traditional ecological knowledge. And then explores how faith leaders can basically turn the tide on climate and environmental issues, so it's very focused on exponential project design project management, and it draws on different religious traditions. So you know, that there will be a lot on creation care, which is huge for mainland. Christians in the United States or integral ecology, which is huge for Catholics. You know, especially a term that was coined by pope Francis into connectedness, which is huge. But but the kind of the idea is that we are recognizing that these principles exist in all religions and out of that. I think will emerge a program that is designed. For students to go as fellows. And accompanied these faith leaders to help set up the courses. One of my biggest struggles, you know, working for WWF. And then beyond was just not being able to meet the needs of all the faith leaders that were reaching out to me, you know, wanted somebody to come and be with them for nine months as they experimented. Right. Like, if if you were building, you know, a project with that impacts one hundred people you want an expert with you and. She didn't have that kind of technical expertise. And I think in some sense, a trusted expert, you know, who understands their their religious tradition who understands the institutions who knows how much to push who can build bridges, right? So it's that's that's that kind of person that's needed. And so the idea is that the fellowships basically, send people like that with faith features to help set up these projects, and I almost like a pipeline for fate led projects, you know, environmental crumbs, but I do want to say, this is a new faith leaders have been doing environmental work all over the world. I mean, if you look at climate change, whether if you look at disasters whether we say it's climate disasters or not the people that respond the most our fates institutions, they are the first they're right there almost always. It's the church or the mosque the temple that ends up being that safe space for people when they're in distress. So we have. To realize that by also demanding an insisting on vocabulary. We actually lose this window where we can collaborate, you know, where we can come together. And I think for me part of the program and keeping it at Madison and keeping it with the center fouled. He minds is this this acknowledgement that there is knowledge to begin both ways. So I am curious everything you were you've come from which is not something we choose. But how you how that was such a part of your life and your realization both early and later in how you want to interact and and make a difference. Put a dent in the universe with your with your work. How does this new endeavor the local initiative, which really I mean, the more you just said and more. I think about it. I mean, the waterfall of like you said creating this pipeline of like generations on of these people starting to train each other is is incredible. But now, you you're such a vital facilitator, how do you feel like that reflects and builds on your on your life work? I don't not answer that question. You know? None of this was planned. That's all I can say it's somebody told me twelve years ago. This is what I'd do. I just laugh them out of the room because I was really proud of being. Upfield conservationists and being trained in that tradition. And part of the training was you know, I distinctly remember the first time I saw rhino. And I I think I squealed and the scientists that chief scientists said, you know, you don't do that at all. Oh, that's really cute. He was like, we don't call them cute. We call them charismatic mega-fauna. And I was like, okay. Charismatic fun. Sure. Right. We at I think this. I mean, okay. Maybe I can talk about this piece as a Brown woman as indigenous woman, you know, as a woman raised in a very faith led family. Specially of women practitioners. I there was a severing that happened when I started studying science, and and you know, environmental science in particular, and I I didn't realize that happened. No in myself within my. I think my guess would be definitely for people of faith. But I think from dead also indigenous people, we all go through this when we and to arrest in education systems, you know, there is this process of way rationality, suddenly just so valued inherently considered more valuable than intuition or emotion. Right. That it our assumption that intelligence is more valued and more important than emotion when you know, like I said earlier eighty percent of our choices human choices made by the subconscious brain, you know, by feelings rather than facts rate, and then use facts to justify the feelings. That's that's how humans were. But somehow when we go through the process of higher education. We are convinced that that is the you know, that is wrong like we convinced not really feel too much and to to really rely on our brain. And I think that is fair and good. I don't necessarily a problem with that. Except. When you have been raised in a tradition where everything is about that as karma, Kagyu Buddhist. My experience of meditation is I don't even know how to describe it. I mean, it's called mom would throw the it's basically the process of losing self. You know, you just become one with everything. Right. I I feel ridiculous looking about this. For your here. Don't feel where you're real thing. Lately. Dissolves and you as you're examining your yourself you. I mean people laugh while they meditate I have laughed because it's like, you realized how ridiculous you are thinking that tequila is a real thing. You know that this this is ridiculous. And and for me from applying the environmental perspective too. That is even more fascinating. Because it's like, whoa. You know, which part is Deke LA is it when the oxygen is entering my mouth is when the oxygen is leaving my mouth like you can go down. Can go down some serious rabbit holes with this stuff. And and I'm I am ecstatic to indulge those things like you said from from the metaphysical to the physiological. And that's where it must be amazing to be someone who who who is both as intelligent, but as trained in both and to marry those two in that experience while at the same time trying to forget them. But I mean, it's it's fantastic. And so thank you. And I think this is a conversation. We should have some of the time too. Because for you guys meditate it I invite you to come to Madison heartbeat. But I, but I think what happened for me personally was that. I started seeing myself as a scientist by day and a but this practitioner by night. It was like I had to do this demarcation to function. So you're backing out because. Like, yeah. And I think most people have faith do that. You would be surprised how many scientists of people of faith, you know. And it's only in many ways, you know, I'm married to an Indian man who just doesn't understand why this is an issue. He's in the IT world trade and because in India, this is very natural. Do you know, I don't know if you remember last year there was the the rocket is rose. So Israel is the space research organization near the top scientists before that rocket launch successfully he went to a temple. He went through the and he did all these prayers and like imagine if this happened anywhere in the world publicly, he's offering a mini rocket to the temple guard. Right. And in India, this is this do Eliza. Mm-hmm. Isn't one like here? It's a do Eliza. And in the west, it's dulas them. And so for me, you know, going back to this when you asked earlier like what is your purpose part of that is to say, we don't need these intense DeMarcus? Nations that are designed by what I see very much as a Neo colonial western education system. You know, as indigenous person has a Brown woman. I I want to take what is useful? And I want to take what benefits the world would benefits. All Saints him beings my community, but I get to draw the line for for for myself and went be in that education system. How many of us even think we are able to do that? I mean, if us even we're just so overwhelmed by deadlines and classes, and so on, and so I think that is the one thing that I've gained in the last few years. I love the. The culet where do you have doubts where wherever you run into resistance mostly in our community in the science community. I've never actually had any door closed in my face from the fate side. Even the most scary evangelical, you can think of you know, they've they've had a compensation with me. I meet crazy things happen. Sometimes, you know, people ask me all kinds of questions, and, you know, people say, they see the devil on my shoulder that they won't do, you know, I'd be all that happens. But the station takes place, you know, but in the science community there, I did lose friends when I initially started working with faith theaters, really lost deep friendships because people felt like I was in some sense. You know, either doing something very trendy, and, you know, not really meaningful on the ground. Or who felt that? I was going over to the enemy. I do have a friend who I still think of as a dear friend who has. Talked me in a long time who felt that way. Because he came from the Catholic tradition, and because of all the terrible things that happened really had a rejection of religion as a whole, right? This is understandable. Because. Bad. Yeah. And so it's not that this work doesn't have its challenges. However, I do think that it allows us to talk about a lot of other things like for me to be able to talk about the pain and suffering that we experiencing at a emotional, physical identity, and then spiritual level. I I hope that then regenerates and kind of you know, it adds to a larger conversation that has been happening for decades. Right. And so I do think we need to pull back quite a bit from the the economic valuation trend that we tend to go towards with with nature and with ecosystem services, and so on it's it's a little horrifying for me on that we rely on it so much, and we rely on technology so much to solve our issues because unless we address the human spirit, the the instigator of all the problems doesn't change then, you know. Sooner or later, we're going to come up with more problems. Right. Even if we have a technological fix this one. So I do think we have to address that root cause which is human nature where else do I have doubt. Oh my God. I'm so concerned about the time line. I mean, I don't know anyone who in any of us who aren't I mean, we know we have this face mall window to make asthma change as possible. And so. I personally, you know, the more I was looking at how markets influence or how marketing influences behavior the more. I realized I really don't want to use fear as a tactic. You know, I I find myself appealing to all kinds of institutions and sometimes on Twitter randomly throwing out to chew the Voss uncaring universe of Twitter at I wish you know, my respected colleagues would stop using this this language that is all about. I don't want to call it fear mongering because that's not what they are trying to do. But this this deep desire to shake everybody up rate. And so then what we do is. We fall back on this on these tactics. That are ultimately, I think what it does is paralyzed most people who don't understand or don't care about it. If we ourselves are using basically, click bait or doubt or fewer uncertainty. What we have to acknowledges that that actually doesn't really result in any. Lasting change. Panic. Exactly, right. Exactly. I think you, and I actually had this exchange about like, what do we do when be panic about climate change, you know, and and so in so much as possible. I do think I love the fact that your podcast, a, you know, focuses on what can we do and ends on a high note because that high note is missing so much of the time. I mean, I it's a tough one so sort of segue into that. And then we're going to actually start to dig into this action here. But I'm curious because it is such a unique perspective, and it is such a daunting number. I want more people to appreciate it as if they don't have enough shit throwing out them like we're saying, but sort of on the more, accidental spiritual question. So we talked about soa souljah reports say a third of the Himalayan glaciers are deep trouble. And that's when you add up all the rivers that come down from the hills. I it's it's water for about two billion people. How is that? These days being handled on a on a on on. I guess the duality the the faith in the psychological standpoint. How how to faith leaders there reconcile that physical reality much of which it much of which is inevitable. This point. What could be this truly daunting future? How is that being confronted there? I see a really interesting thing that's happening in the Himalayas with with the Koryak monasteries and nunneries I mentioned, and I think it also is happening at a global scale, which is you know. Communities banding together. So at a global scale what I see is it's cities that are really giving us hope and that are leading forward on climate action rate if we rely on governments and intergovernmental politics. I mean, it could be a long while but cities have stepped up and said, you know, I am going to use, you know, like all my urban planners on this or whatever that might be. And I see the same thing happening in these communities, basically because of the disaster management training where giving the que- monasteries they are reaching out to the local communities, and creating these hubs of management plans now that is all about adaptation. But there is this interesting piece that's coming in. Now, you know in the tenth year of practice, which is about mitigation, and which is really about monastries. So Ben, but ZIM, you know, under his the Karmapa and under the Dalai Lama, many of the teachers most monasteries are vegetarian, but there is this real. Push to actually have communities become vegetarian, which I hadn't seen before on this real push to, you know, share resources to to not own too much to have organic gardens all the monasteries that I work with and nunneries I work with have organic gardens that are in some sense starting to become self sufficient when it comes to food, you know, that also see solar and see rooftop water harvesting as part of that self sufficiency process. So going back to what you said earlier about your background in science fiction. And you know, you knowing how much 'cause on the doomsday's sitting it really gives me hope that communities are thinking that way because I think we have to be prepared for that. That is our reality. If you look at just the oh, God, the number frequency of disasters that receiving right? The more. We can get people to be prepared and to think of themselves as one unit the more likely, we are to survive it and to change how we rebuild in the future. It'd been spent so expire inspiring about what so many of these kids are doing out there these days, right? Is there just yeah? We've we've organized it. We've done it where we're marching across cities were skipping school were sitting in senator's office, and we're doing this. Whether you guys are in office ready to do it or not, right. This is happening because we are the ones that are going to have to suffer an and truly adapt to to what's going on here. Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. The March fifteenth, right? So let's dig into how that our listeners. You know, who many of them are progressive science nerds who care about the future and our species and our planet, and you know, who might not not be people of faith. But how how how can they help your specific mission? Our goal is to provide action steps that our listeners can take to support you, and and they can use their voice their vote in their dollar. So let's get into how we can how we can do that. Let's start with with their voice. You know, what what are the big actionable specific questions that that the rest of us should be asking our representatives. And then of course, you know, because as topic their their faith based leaders, some my I appeal really would be far scientists and everybody else to reach out to the local faith communities that they are living among buying whether they are people of faith or not it doesn't matter because most faith organizations are. I'm trying to understand what they can do on climate change or on the environment and feeling completely overwhelmed. So even if you just reach out and say, hey, is anyone you know, I go I walked by this church every day or bike by this church every day with the smallest anyone here working on environment. You'll be surprised that most churches do have somebody who's just wearied exhausted has five percent of that time dedicated to the environment. And is just doesn't know what to do. Right. So my first request would be that to reach out. And I think in that sense also recognize that can they're all kinds of like meatless Mondays are being really pushed forward by by tricks right now in the United States, right huge impact when it comes to climate change. And so on I mean, the other thing that I'm really fascinated by I think one of you said earlier, what if what if the Catholic churches were putting solar? Well, WWF has tried that. And I think the scientists that are working on you know, 'specially on making solar more affordable turn to faith in. Detentions because they are the ones who are going to be able to trigger change in their community. If they put it up to you. It's almost like free advertising and reassurance. And it's coming from frosted source. Exactly. And that's the key tonight. I actually want to go back to the first point on on being a trusted source since you are sort of a double agent. When we're talking about telling these scientists who are driving vs or biking to work or walk into worker, or whatever that are going past these faith based institutions, whatever they however, they might be shaped or formed or believed in little what specifically how should they frame that reach out. You know, what is that conversation starter that they could be having again, the the more specific the better. So that we can really enabled people to do this. Oh god. This is gonna give me so much hate mail. Let's drop evolution for the time being people. Let's just you know, let's just agree to disagree on his few certain things at just start with where we agree. It will also like. Evolutions in by the way. No, no, no, please. Evolution like, yeah. We should talk about that all day. However, there is a ticking clock and there's other shit. We have to deal with. Let's just deal with that. I yeah. Exactly. And so you know, I have being having tried to build these bridges like over a decade. I cannot tell you how many times a scientist who happens to be a colleague or a friend will turn to me in a panic before a meeting and say, you know, I come by my head down in prayer. You know, I can't do that. If they make me do that. Or you know, they bring up evolution. I'm going to have to talk about ever Lucien, and sort of like what I always come back to is. Let's say you, and I were right now working with the despot it government or with a corporation that is going to hand us under thousand dollars in this conversation. Would you feel that need to bring up their mining practices or their human rights violations? No, right. No. You wouldn't we wouldn't we assigned to are actually trained to to build bridges. We really are. Except where it comes to faith. And I think that's partly because science this this. Oh, my God this deep entrenchment that has happened has happened. We ourselves have been part of the identity politics, you know, and we we're just too blind to see it. And so my first request. When I ask scientists to work with faith leaders, and why we have these meetings behind closed doors, a lot of the time is so that, you know, if these conversations happen, and they're difficult. We know that they're contained right? So what you want to do is create that safe space, first and foremost, and that is to say, I am here to listen to what you're struggling with an I'm here to help in any way. I can it's not to push your hand is hot to to get them to become scientists to believe that, you know, I don't know to to change their minds in terms of paradigm, you know, religious paradigm. We cannot go there. And we are honestly not equipped to go there. Because all we're going to say is you're wrong and look at my data. And that's not gonna change their minds. True loss of her is more likely to affect them than scientists is. Right. But what we can do is go there and say, we are here to be a resource, and I think that is sold legitimate. And that place to our strengths little from. There is something to which you know, we can again mcnew them into in another way. But is so true. It's it's a way for the the scientists or people of science or activists in any way to truly humble themselves. Right. Which is as the does behind a plenty western religions, good or bad but to humble yourself. And like you said just say I mean, it's it's it's like the single best parenting advice I ever got slash Meredith. Marriage advice from a friend of mine was literally just say to your wife. How can I help and it all everything right? It. Is literally just instead of like do this or do this or he wants to just say how can I help? And and if we just do that if we just walk in you don't have to call and say, hey, I can do these things for you or hey, this just go and say, I can be resource. How can I help? And and what what could that do? Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And I think in that sense to we we assigned are willing to do that for so many different kinds of stakeholders, and here is one of the largest most influential stakeholder groups in the world Birchenough swinging the whole thing, right? Exactly fifty percent of all schools in the in the world. I run by religious institutions. The Catholic church by itself is the second largest property owner in the world, right? As incriminate is MacDill. No, it's the Queen of England. Mcdonald's. Sure. Sure. And so how is it? You know, when we think of them in that way. How is it that then we aren't willing to extend ourselves and say, oh, my gosh, actually, helping you helps me helps us helps the planet. Why not just extend that branch in and start somewhere? And so for me, this, you know, you could start anywhere if you want to work at the national level, God knows there enough institutions working with faith leaders rate, amazing work. That's happening. They you mentioned Mitch in. I mean, they do amazing work the it for every feet community. There is an environmental organization does organization called EKO seek which is just for seats. You know? And so the point is that you can work at a national level, you can work with policy because God knows we do work with faith leaders to who to influence policy in in DC white. Why don't we also work with them to to help buying support for let's say the green new deal, right? So there are places I think the point of entry can fit wherever you are. But making that decision to come and be part of that team is the most crucial one and that that would be my main request. And what about the vote any any specific thoughts there on on on what our listeners should be should be looking for when it comes to that is specifically not just like ovo for somebody who loves the environment or wants to help climate. But with regard to being more inclusive to the gr- kind of groups you work with is there anything specifically, they should be looking for or talking to the representatives about a so I mean, generally, obviously, an big supporter of the green new deal and hoping you know, that it's gonna be different this time than the previous walks Waxman Markey deal though, right that miserable. So let's see this time. But, but I do worry a great deal about what's happening in the national parks, and what's happening. But first nations, you know, just the the egregious. Use of force against first nations to for protecting natural resources in their sacred lands and in some cases, legitimately. Let's say legally US gunman legally recognized sovereign lands rate for first nations. It's it's in. I mean, one of the things that's happening. Of course, is that we're bleeding from thousand cuts, I think on a daily basis probably each one of us. We accept looks at the news and just wants to cry because it's like which issues should I feel pain about them. Fifty. But having said that ultimately, you know, being an American. I it it pains me to see what's happening with wilderness areas on what's happening in protected areas. And how those laws of being degraded or undermined or being turned around. Right. And so that's one issue that I feel really strong about and I hope that listeners do support God all the NGOs that work on it. I feel like if I name them I'll be here forever. But. Sure, of course, like WWF, obviously, Sierra Club major conservancy, right? And so on, but I also feel really strongly about protecting indigenous rights and protecting first nation rights, and in that sense. I'm not sure I can say that go to this one Gino there are several legal organizations that work on it. But I'm not sure I can see just go to one. But what I can say is when we are in America, no matter where we are. We have to recognize we are on first nations land, you know, we are on indigenous land, and the one thing we could do is learn about who was here first because the manage natural resources pretty darn well, much better. Let's start there with that recognition and with that respect. And then the second thing we do is we actually reach out and try and make reparations in any way, we can as indigenous person from the Himalayas this. You know, if obviously I feel really strongly about it. But also, he no we can say we are indigenous to the earth, and we Awan race in rea- one Keno one human species rate, but ultimately, we have really extracted knowledge from indigenous populations and treated them as if they are part of nature as if they are, you know, in some sense that that nameless. I don't know bucket of natural resources that we can draw and and basically use however, we like and throwback what we don't. And I think what's amazing to me is nature and indigenous cultures are so resilient and continue to give back, you know, the traditional ecological knowledge that exists in indigenous cultures that has actually. Been the basis of what is now what we think of as modern science, right? That just goes on unacknowledged. But also, our inability to to reach out and build partnerships with first nations, you know, I I have seen this again. And again, where scientists and NGOs basically will go so far and go no further because they are seen as activists or they are seen as rabble rousers. And I do think there is this very FM Merrill, guilt slash discomfort about having to enter conversations that people personally are not ready to have. And I think that does come back to the fact that conservation is primarily Caucasian, right? It's run by Caucasians. And so there is this real the white liberal guilt. Whatever you want to call it. But ultimately if we are talking about nature being resilient, and we as human species being resilient. We have to turn to the resources that actually. You know, are the most bountiful that argon Titus over. And I think that does exist an indigenous culture that level of wisdom. So my request to all the listeners is that you find those partnerships you build them. And if that means you have to suffer through a little bit of white guilt. Yeah. Feel it feel it. That's what we give point. Right. And it's time. You can go through it and move on. Exactly. We got this. Awesome. Mchugh it. Well. We've had we've kept you for quite a while. And we we've loved this conversation. Thank you so much for chatting with us today. But the few this was so fascinating. And I with up to beat you guys. We should we should find another time to talk. Absolutely. All right. Brian bring the we we have a few questions for you just a few more closing questions when likes Tacoma lightning round. They are not probably change ready for them. Questions around really quick. So and we do try to keep the answers a little more brief because it's it's. Anyways. I should I. I'm reconciling some things over here. Okay. Okay. To kill. When was the first time in your life? When you realized you had the power of change or the power to do something meaningful. I think twelve and there was a dam that went up in my community in Sikkim and people were evicted from that area. The indigent one of indigenous tribes the lecture tribe, and there was a raise mall hunger strike in. I joined them. Oh, that's awesome. That's sometime in twelve is is is that's impressive. That was crazy. And who is someone in your life? That has positively impacted your work in the past six months. Get there such a long list, I would start with Richie Davidson at the center of healthy minds, not only because he believed in my vision. You know, help me build this platform for the local initiative, but also because his work has been so seminal in linking mental wellbeing with community and planetary wellbeing. And so I think in that sense. There's just for for environmentalists were making the argument that it's one in the same thing. His work has just really influential Mary Evelyn Tucker is another person who's over at Yale form of religion and ecology. She's been my mentor for jurors and has just been this amazing sounding board in visionary. When it comes to building relationships between religion, and ecology awesome. I could go on Joan Honan. No, no. Not this is not an Oscar. You're gonna get your shot one of these days. Don't worry. We'll have we'll have a whole side episode where you just thank people. Yeah. It'll be great. We'll call it how to be appreciative. And and it'll be important because it's an important thing. I'll eat Jay is do you should do that. Do you issue in your podcast? I have a growth through journal, so lovely. Jesse our I'll try it. Okay. Frank tequila question. Number three. What do you do when you feel overwhelmed specifically when it comes to thinking about climate change? And especially when you know when I'm reading about disasters, then have windows, I go and rebuild and build my bug out bags. And you know, go through everything and restore them. So that's one of the things I do. But the other thing I do obviously are not maybe not obviously. But the other thing I do is meditate and time in nature and just even if it is, you know, twenty minutes in the weekend that I get to go out and just be in a forest. Yeah. That probably keeps me going for the next week. Goodwill. I assume that might be part of your answer. How do you consume the news? Well, sadly, Twitter, probably the first way ideas Facebook. Yeah. It it's not I actually almost completely off Facebook. It's I think the most recent horrifying thing was that. There are all these other companies that share information with Facebook about women's periods. I'll. You can't say anything, by the way, you could have said the most horrifying thing is going to be like madly into just make it easy. And but I can switch off Facebook. Because I have so many -mongst there that I can reach Facebook shrimping that's the fraud eater. See now. So that's why I haven't spoke awesome. Okay. Last question if you could Amazon prime one book to Donald Trump, what would that book be? Oh my God. Could it just be a ton of books that would be one? See doing it again aside episode where you just name all the books, you know, to be honest, probably a book on compassion because ultimately at the core of it. Oh my God. What a suffering individual. The worst book on compassion. The deal is we have an Amazon book list, tequila, and we actually put all the recommendations on there. And in our listeners can actually ascend send these books to the White House. Okay. So I can think of okay there is a really the joy of living by Mingo room. Achie- men is I don't know if you know who he is. But he has he's he's a Tibetan. This senior monk who also is a scientist. And I think that would be a really nice combination. Also perfect. I love it. I would actually one of my recommendations on that front on. Today's topic is one of my favorites being peace. Not sure if you're familiar with that one at all, it's it's a popular book by Tichenor on from. I think the too early two thousands. I think something like that. Incredible small little book that I've given to people. But yeah, yeah. That's that would be amazing. They nice of coming training or the simple deals could read to him with victory. Flash cards. There's not more than five fours. Yup. Yup. Awesome. Hey, where can our listeners follow you on the internet? I'm on Twitter Dietsch in gal pot. They could. Also, I think that's probably the easiest way. I'm also on Instagram. I would love for them to check out the local initiative, so it center of healthy minds, so center of healthy minds dot org slash local dash initiative. Those always he'll free to reach out to me happy. Happy to talk as always and beau bridges awesome. I love renewed more the bridge building these days instead of building it must. We're just keeping a white guys in which case I will help build it got enough like myself do. Kill it. Thank you so much. All my fear time today. And the unique perspective you have you have brought to both our conversation. But you're also bring into the world and an enduring things making make building the pipeline. It's going to make a difference. What you it was such a great conversation. I really enjoy myself. We'll have a wonderful day a wonderful weekend. And we will we will talk to you soon. Thanks to our incredible guest today, and thanks to all of you for tuning in. We hope this episode has made your commute or awesome, workout or dishwashing or fucking dog walking late at night that much more pleasant as a reminder, please subscribe to our free Email newsletter at important, not important dot com. It is all the news most vital to our survival as a species, and you can follow us all over the internet. You can find us on Twitter at important, not IMP. So weird also on Facebook and Instagram at important, not important Pinterest. And tumbler the same thing. So check us out. Follow us share us like us, you know, the deal, and please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to things like this. And if you're really fucking awesome rate us on apple podcasts keep lights on. Thanks, please. And you can find the show notes from today. Right in your little podcast player and at our website important, not important dot com. Thanks to the very awesome. Tim blamed for our gym and music to all of you for listening and finally most importantly to our moms for making us have a great day. Thank guys.

scientist Himalayas Brian Colbert World Wildlife foundation Madison United States Deke la university of Wisconsin India Monastries Lewis university of Wisconsin Quila Chung JABA Chung yelp Mitch Hess Cox Kennedy PTSD Tibetan Buddhists pope Francis
Get a jump on next spring with bed cleanup, mulch and edging.

Your Gardening Questions

07:35 min | 11 months ago

Get a jump on next spring with bed cleanup, mulch and edging.

"Hi this is Mark News from plan. Talk Radio thanks for subscribing and listening to our podcast. You're gardening questions from plan. Talk Radio to help. Keep this podcast free for you. We're we're partnering with Stoke Seeds. Preplanned your indoor seed starting program with the help of the all new stokes website now mobile and tablet friendly. The new website is a brand new gardening experience variance offers better interactivity and higher quality imagery. But what hasn't changed is the stokes website is still the complete resource center with valuable information on seed starting adding planting and harvesting all the gardening accessories and a free catalog whether you're adding texture. A new variety for a splash of color developing an existing garden or starting from scratch stoke seeds has some great resources to help you plus all the gardening accessories you need to make your garden the envy of the neighborhood get growing with stokes now. Now today's question talked a lot about Getting things ready for spring. That's about all you can do this time of year. You can plant but you can get you know getting things ready for spring the talk about the importance of the garden. Clean up clean up around the beds and things and and I suppose if you wanted to you could go ahead it and Edge the beds and Mulch and get things ready for spring. Now yes Not so much today because it's just bordering on thirty two. Yeah but this afternoon a new and I think it's gone up into the forties and whatever comes yes And and in particular this edging at the beds I I'm kind of a bug about that. I I like to put plants in groups In any event I don't want grasses growing up in the middle of a Lilac I don't want a weed type perennial growing up in the middle of my mum's and so on so yeah those things can be done now You know you know what was was a we'd even though the tops gone now you can dig it out now. You're not you're not going to be able to use a week killer anymore etcetera etcetera but yes and then most especially especially back to this business of grass kept out of things. I like to sharpen up the edge of the beds to three times a year. Now if you're doing with a little instrument by foot that's only ten inches wide and you're pressing down every ten inches. You're going to get real tired of doing this but it's still worthwhile because the time you spend on that edging or you can buy a machine that does it very very nicely in anwr anti you can rent and rent them. Yes yes by all means rent them but that will save you time from reaching down to pull out cuss and discuss and and on what. The grasses have grown into because right now even though we've hit that eleven point now thirty two today grass is growing underground it is mark We've talked about you mowing. Hey Stop. Stop Stop but you know. Grass is still growing underground as well as above and blue grasses grow by sending out what are called tillers or resumes and they love to pop up I've been well cultivated perennial garden soil more than they do in the tough old lawn areas. So with edging now you can prevent a nearly broken back in the spring by doing the same thing and be head of the game so that you can put your attention into controlling the height of the perennials. Els in planning new things and so on so yes by all means and then mulching. We're at a point where it has gotten down cold enough now the things that need to be mulched and I'm GonNa don't just leave that alone but the things that need to be mulched do so We're going to try to keep the soil warm now to you and me Forty degrees soil is mighty darn cold But at the same time to plants roots things are really Growing quite nicely now and they'll extend grass grass resumes and Tillers will extend twelve fourteen fifteen inches into the bed from the lawn pop up to aggravate in the spring whereas if you get out and done the edging now when you even workup much of a sweat at it go from there and in and on a Saturday where the ball game Amos supposed to be a fifty point win You're not gonNA miss a whole lot if you do some gardening at forty five degrees today and of course You know putting down a little. A ball June I know that in the spring. You're always say wait to the soil warms up because you're gonNA plant things but now you're not going to plant things. Put them all on Ryan because now we're actually trying to slow the penetration of the cold into the ground. It will get cold because it'll freeze below a mulch but it'll be slowed down in doing. So which is far better here for the plants roots while the hummingbirds gone. Yes hummingbirds are gone but I I know you're feeding the birds. I I don't know about you but I I seem to have a lot a lot of them this year. There are and I think I don't keep real close con- contact but I keep the feeders full of various types of things and I'm seeing what must it'd be migration because I've seen a couple. Birds don't recognize come onto the feeders and be their day or two and then gone again the juncture back. Probably be here all winter long. The cardinals have really brightened up. The the I call them Canary still but they finch yellow finch have gone back to their their normal final winner colors but they're still out there and active is just like a three ring circus if you're paying attack. This little black is beautiful. They are and quick. Oh yeah another thing. Quick Little Red squirrels neighbor parked his van left it for I think three or four days unused went out to start. It wouldn't start any couldn't figure it out so he finally throws open the hood to find out what's gone wrong. It is loaded with spruce cones spruce bruce branches and other stuff from red squirrels. They built their domain. Anything that sets still in sit still what's again Fred has his to do list coming up next on plant. Talk stay with us. Did you know that one. In eight Americans struggle with hunger yet more than forty forty percent of the food reproduced as thrown out at Kroger. We know we can do something about this. We're donating more food to local food banks through our partnership with feeding America and we're working with World Wildlife Fund and food waste but we can't do it alone and we hope you'll join us in creating a world with zero hunger zero waste visit the Kroger Co Dot Com to learn how you can help. This is Jesse's O'Reilly auto parts story as a nurse. Not Making it to work was not an option but driving through the snow with my wiper. Blades struggling I just didn't feel state so I pulled into a reilly auto parts and before right knew it and employee was offering to install the wiper blades on my car. I got to stay out of this note for a moment and I still made it to work on time arts. Thanks again for listening to the PODCAST. Remember preplanned your indoor seed starting program with the help of stokes gardening guide I'd and their online articles on their brand new website. Now mobile and tablet friendly and request your free catalog while you're online for the best selection of vegetable flower and herb seeds available salable go to stoke seeds dot com call waiting successful growers for generations.

Stoke Seeds stokes Mark News Kroger Tillers Kroger Co Dot Com cardinals Blades anwr Jesse Ryan Amos Fred World Wildlife Fund America ten inches twelve fourteen fifteen inches forty forty percent
Study: Dolphins Not So Intelligent On Land

The Topical

07:03 min | 5 months ago

Study: Dolphins Not So Intelligent On Land

"From the onion onion public radio, this is the topical. I'm your host Leslie Price I'll be honest I. Don't know what the hell today's top story is. So how did I just read you a couple of pieces of news? That happened to be sitting here in front of me right now so good. The DNC is announced that they'll be looking to streamline their future fundraising efforts by cutting out the cost of campaigns and candidates DNC chairman Tom Perez announced the plans today, saying that he was hopeful that with no candidates or platforms disagree on the DNC will be able to fully focus their efforts on their core mission of raising money. And after a lot of negative press in the past few months, the corona virus is reportedly looking to rehabilitate his public image and will be making the rounds and visiting hundreds of sick children in hospitals. The novel virus is also scheduled to pick up a volunteer shift at a local soup kitchen later this week. That new stung the back of your throat. Chasing with some corporate messaging always helps, it goes down smooth for me back in a moment. Well. It's no secret for decades. We've been hearing. Just how intelligent dolphins are whether? It was their use of a complex language, emotional displays or impressive ability to problem solve scientists are constantly clamoring about the unique an elective, the mammal, however, a new study from the University of Florida has undercut some of those claims as researchers have discovered that these supposedly smart marine creatures are not so bright went on land. We're joined by OPR's chief Dolphin. Jenna resnick. Jenna, thanks for being here I leslie. So, what can you tell us about this study? Well, researchers took fifty dolphins to test and found that when they were put on land, the dolphins were unable to display the most basic cognitive skills they couldn't repeat simple hand gestures, and their nonverbal communications were limited to rapid constriction and expansion of their blowholes. Even worse, the report found. Found that ninety six percent of the dolphins just experienced heavy tremors as they flapped around on the laboratory floor. Well, if you're a dolphin, that's pretty embarrassing for a species that likes to make people think they're geniuses. flapping around on the ground isn't much to brag about. It was certainly shocking to the researchers who now theorized that. When dolphins lose access to their water, they aren't. Aren't so special after all I mean it's just a really bad look that these mammals couldn't replicate their displays of intelligence when they weren't in the perfect conditions of their natural habitat. Here's a conversation I. had with head researcher Dr Scotland, L. in the water are testing found that these dolphins could do amazing things like navigate a maze or find food, but the second we put. Put them in a parking lot obstacle. Course they just started shrieking. Rolling around like maniacs most would just lie there motionless until someone dragged them off. You would assume they would figure at least one part of the obstacle course out like the monkey bars. There's something that's pretty straightforward. Yeah, unfortunately, it seems dolphins might just be a little too stupid. What about over the long term? Term. Did their study find that they adapted to their new habitat over time that Lindahl said learning curve was actually negative. The longer they were on land, the more pitiful, their efforts became I mean. If they were as smart as everyone would want us to believe, you'd think they'd figure out how to move on grass, dogs walk on land and they swim, but dolphins can only. Only, do one sounds like a third rate whale to me. People in and outside the scientific community worldwide seemed to be coming to that conclusion for example the International Conservation Union has removed all dolphins from the protected species lists deeming them quote to fucking stupid to protect us and the World Wildlife Fund released a statement thanking the researchers for revealing the Dolphin to be the floppy. Floppy disk. Shit frauds. They really are wow. So what does the future of this species look like? Then after hearing, this I for one would mind going on a little dolphin hunt to spear one of these slippery arrogant bitches for talking such a big game about how God jam rainy. They are right. It seems like that would be a possibility now. Especially, all dolphin hunting bans. Bans were lifted. The data test results came out I also spoke with Dr a little about the future of the Mammal frankly I. Don't know if they have a future and I don't care one. I'm monitoring now is laying across a chair. Only ten feet away from some mackerel and the dolphins can't even move a little to eat. It just listened to the stupid things struggle. God, what is wrong with these things Christ's sake shut that more on fish. The hell up somebody put that fucking out of its misery. The researchers had the same line of thought they felt killing all the test. Subjects was the humane thing to do since their stupidity outside of the water would only get them killed down the road, and they encouraged anyone who sees dolphin in the future to kill them immediately, and with no mercy so you should be seeing dolphin on your menus very soon I hope chilies comes up with a good ultimate Dolphin nachos, ZAP or Whiskey Barbecue Dolphin Burger with a little pickle on the side, and maybe even a crispy fried dolphin skin basket for dessert Sorry it's been a while since I've been to a restaurant. Yeah, I, hear Ya anyway. Thanks for the report Jenna. That's OPR's Jenner resnick. Now these next three pieces of news might be a little shorter than the last story, but that doesn't make them any less important. They're just. How you say less interesting. Yeah, here's what else you need to know today. With the school year over for many students, the nation's English teachers were finally able to admit today that reading sucks after centuries of touting reading books as an enriching activity that expands your worldview and boost creativity, English and literature teachers at every level of academia admitted that in reality, reading his actually really boring and totally blown. Additionally, they added that no one has ever actually finished a book and that if you say you have, you're probably a liar. and temperatures began to rise the cross the country. The Department of Agriculture is looking to cash in announcing it will begin taxing farmers. Farmers, on sunlight used to grow crops makes sense I'd say it's about time. They paid their fair share. And finally a fascinating new study out today is found that humans are able to make wisecracks about not having ahead for hours after being decapitated, experts had long believed that a person could only talk about losing their mind for minutes after decapitation, but researchers found the majority of subjects were able to ask for their brain to be kept on ice, so they could quote. Keep a cool head for upwards of three hours. I was just amazing. What the human body is capable. And that's the topic for today. I'm Leslie Price. If you enjoyed today's episode, you can like and subscribe to the Topical Wherever you get your podcast, and if you really enjoy today's episode, played this episode again while you stare at your blank television screen and imagine what I look like. I can even help you out of about six four brown hair bluish Hazel is broad shoulders strong, John Line that also has cute, little dimples plus an asked. That just won't quit. I'm telling you don't feel like you're watching TV news and I think you really enjoy it. Thanks always for listening and watching. You right back here tomorrow.

DNC Leslie Price Jenna OPR Jenner resnick Tom Perez tremors International Conservation Uni chairman University of Florida World Wildlife Fund Lindahl ZAP researcher Hazel Dr Scotland John Line Department of Agriculture ninety six percent three hours
Episode 7 - Spring Break Afterclapse, Summit of the Americas, Belizean Updates

The Edwin Colon Podcast

57:08 min |

Episode 7 - Spring Break Afterclapse, Summit of the Americas, Belizean Updates

"Talk Radio Yeah welcome to another edition of the Evan. Fiery. Talk Show on talk radio four, Friday. April seventeen, thousand nine. I'm your host Edwin Cologne and tonight's show is GonNa be short only an hour but it is Edwin calling variety talk show and I wanNA thank you so much for staying here with me joining us again for another positive and inspiring show I'm book all the way from Chicago Illinois I've been under the weather last week we didn't have. an episode because it was the Easter weekend This time we're going to keep your breasts. So when we come back with more of the Evan Cologne very talk show, we're GonNa talk more about what's been happening lately and what you're going to look forward to on tonight's episodes. Yeah Racist. Thought. We. Oh. Own. Times. Is. Out every. On. The. Air. Being. The. Really another two. Around. The. Slur. Bananas. means. because. If you really want to. Judaism. Own. Reasons that That this? signing to bad. You know if you're gonNA live Adopt. Time. And we? So you on. China. Ghana Ghana. One. We. On it better. Shocked Income. NBA. We're. Is. But not as really mealy. Fun. ME. If you really want to know. Mining that you. Know we'd be. ooh. it does. Yeah that was the one and only. Jeff Hsien with US time, you're listening to Evan call on variety talk show talk radio, and I'm just Julie Every Cologne today on the show it's going to be short but sweet nonetheless, I want to thank each and every one of you for choosing. Radio and Edwin Collen variety talk show. we all know there's a lot happening worldwide today on this weekend especially down in Latin America and the Caribbean where President Obama is meeting with the nation's leaders. Including the Prime Minister of believes honorable. Dean Barrow who today gave the opening remarks on behalf of CAR COM, which is the Caribbean Community, and he holds the chairmanship for that. before I continue. As, we talked about the summit of the Americas I wanted to. Share with you something that came out of the routers organization about the Cuban debate, which dominates as America's leaders meet. And this is coming from out of Puerto Spain leaders from across the Americas guttered on Friday for some overshadowed by an intense debate over a possible reconciliation between the United States and Cuba and how this could be achieved. President Barack Obama making his first diplomatic faure as US leader nothing America and the Caribbean has extended a hand communist rule Cuba saying he wants to recast the her style relationship between Washington and have ANA. What he wants to talk about opening up more political freedoms. Raising hopes of possible future appointment Cuban President Raul Castro said in Venezuela on Thursday his country was open for talks with the United States have what everything but demanded respect for sovereignty. Prospecting for thought in an ideological conflict that has marked the hemisphere for half a century is already dominating the summit of the Americas starting later on Friday and Puerto Spain in the Caribbean state of Trinidad and Tobago. You Wake Hubei is excluded from the meeting of charity for regional leaders the issue of US ties not on the from summit. Or included in the draft declaration, which proposes broad coordination to tackle the effects off the global economic crisis that is hitting countries across the region from the United States and Brazil to the smallest Caribbean state. In his statement on Thursday gosh cities country was ready to discuss with the United States human rights, press freedom, political prisoners, everything everything everything they want to talk about. Visiting the Dominican Republican fight before flying onto port-of-spain US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton welcome wants she called Castro's overtures. We're taking a very issues look at it, and we will consider how we intend to respond is what she told reporters. And earlier this week Obama open a cracking embargo by scrapping restrictions and family travel to Cuba and then he was from promised bid for telecommunication licences. Clinton described these moves the most significant policy changes by the United States government towards Cuba in decades. Now, that's just a little bit of information that I wanted to share with my listeners out of the rotors organization. Here on the Edwin colored variety talk show, we always want to be positive uninspiring whatever makes life easier whatever makes stress easier and whatever makes friendship. Much. More. Easier to achieve. That's something we want promote, and that's why I WANNA see. You know there were constellation if these two countries and the world to get her means a whole lot farther global economy. But just the future of of the country's itself you know if we look at it from that angle. Here in Chicago right now it's close to forty degrees. Going to forty one and it's been a rocky week with the weather there spent some sunshine. But unfortunately, for my friends out in Colorado, I heard there's been snowstorms after snowstorms happening. All Day. So? I. Mean this in a very good way I do not envy them but the weather I know how the weather can get out there I used to live out there I used to live in Denver Colorado and Laramie Wyoming which to nearby cities and they all got the same way out in the Moncton. So I knew exactly how the weather can get but not only their cargoes. Well, you know the windy city has his. Shares of stories when it comes to whether no, we gotta come up with more of the Edwin Cologne variety talk show right here on bumped up. Radio. There's more. We have forty two minutes off the Columbia Talk Radio show coming up. So I just don't want you to be bored rick this evening and to stay with us we'll be right back. That's my favorite part is Christian artists, Michael W Smith with his tongue I will be here for you. Welcome back to the Edwin Colin Very Talk Show I hope you've had a wonderful week and I hope your day is going well, that's the beginning of the weekend. As we get into the middle of the month, it's thirty seven more minutes into the Aaron Cullen variety talk show, and if you WANNA call listening to the show from your phone or Just want to talk to me on their the number to call is six, four, six, nine, one, five, eight, two, nine, nine. So again, the number is six, four, six, nine, one, five, eight, two, nine, nine. If you WANNA give us a call here listen to the show live while you're driving or while you would your family over the phone or you know, you can just send that special shadow to someone or give us a piece of your mind. You know so Tomorrow happening in Chicago tomorrow. Two thousand nine. The concerned beliefs have incorporated and we've been mentioning it for the past few episodes. Now having their sick animal fundraiser hanging gardens nearby here in Chicago and they want you to come. So if you haven't gotten your ticket yet and you're in the area come on out to the hanging gardens, worried concerned beliefs of INC will be having their second and while. fundraising defense, and it's a black tie events different they have to come into sharp. I have my ticket already and I have my suit and everything planning to go last weekend I was under the wetter and so hopefully this week and I'll be ready for all. That's going to happen at the hanging gardens tomorrow four to sick and well. Concerned believe. Fundraising event. My name is Edwin Cologne this is Edwin Collen variety talk show we're coming back with more off the shoal, but I just want to play some more music. So here's Patrice Roberts would sugar boy. my buddy got. Oh. Patrice Roberts, and sugar. This is Evan Cologne variety talk show we have thirty two more minutes thirty one more minutes into the radio show here this Friday evening seven, seventeen day off. April two, thousand, nine. Disappearing Mangoes Belise on seven news believes website recently this week on April Sixteen it was reported. By the US station channel seven about the. Disappearing mangoes around some pair Joel and Miss American Believes is a swamp and city of what happened it's reclaimed and all if it's below sea level and where there's trump and cedars mango, those Party teased that love water to sing the roots into and while they aren't exactly love purposely so far exceeds their aesthetic value then short coastal integrity and when floods come Mongo's actors nature sponge wood. There appeared to be no friend to mega developers who pull the mangoes and Philip Right to the water's edge knowing the World Wildlife Fund is trying to get to reserve that habit and celebrate and incorporate Mongo's into their project designs. I think that's a very important thing. When it comes to the local environment in believes you know obviously the huge developers going down there trying to you know make their money in trying to. promote their Industry Co. ever we have to start thinking about the environment and how we can cohabitate. Whatever development you know trying to get in there? recently down in Monte River in Closer to the southern part of belise. They've been reports of constant erosion. And You know that's something that that you know they have to look at very closely recently on the Internet, the chairman of the village has been asking for for. Tires donations. So they can try to still down their religion a little bit. Pretty soon here I'll be going down to Belize and probably spending a few months I'll be broadcasting from there. But I wanna again as much as I can into into helping that part. Of You, know the. Economical crisis when it comes to an environment. I think we can do our part sort of listeners. If you follow me throughout, you know you've finding out exactly what I'll be trying to do in terms of. trying to help in combating these. natural disasters that people face down there some of it manmade as well. You know. So On the seven news believes website native booed from the American Wreath Actually World Wildlife Fund spoke to the journalists from channel seven for the entire situation. So you can find not entire story is seven news believes DOT com. when it comes to the environment. Is quite you know it's nothing to take re likely I remember when I was much younger won. An award for tireless in has been a environment from the believes in society, and that's because from over at a very young age. I learned how important is to manage the environment for future generations back then I was much younger and even now it's getting more and clearer how ecofriendly we all have to be. also, you know the big huge development going in I mean going on in the country itself you know we're not against them but. I guess the good environmental plan would be suffice. So we're GONNA come back with more of the Everett Colin. Variety talk show right here on talk radio. On. We're GONNA talk more. We have twenty seven more minutes into the choice you want to call the number to call is six, six, nine, one, five, eight, two, nine, nine. Here's Mr Papa John with steph funny. Enemy. Listening. Checks sending them. To Jamaica. Quick, y'all. Know. We're not. Hopeless No. About. Hitting. My friends to visit Britain is something. Go cases. Like Mindy for licks, free. Afghan do we don't? Go Away. Talk. John Nice to walk. into. Brickley. Don't. Don't. Cover. You. Make. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Komo. Breathe. Obviously. How little? Green. in. Yeah that was. Pop assigned and Kirk Franklin with breathe again earlier I said that was that funny enemy and it's not it's really again. So my apologies for that. Welcome back to the Edwin Colin. Very talk show right here on talk radio just a little bit of information coming out of Trinidad and Tobago where America's Summit of the Americas taking place. tax havens to love your mind. America's summit. Leaders. A so-called Caribbean tax haven countries said Friday. They would ask President Barack Obama to oppose the plan crackdown on our show tax evasion that they consider a threat to their financial service industry. In many small countries that have struggled to diversify their economies, financial services have become an important growth engine fed believes Prime Minister Dean Barrow Chairman of the Fifteen member Caribbean Community also known as Caricom. But a proposed US law that would make it harder for Americans to keep money in such cases and similar efforts in Europe have exerted tremendous pressure on our show banks and corporate registries. Eagle. Activities Borough said. The subject was one of the top points that the current come time to raise during a meeting with Obama at the Summit of the Americas Internet, this weekend said. Obama has said he supports the proposed stop tax haven he's act and it was one of the bill's cosponsors when he was still a US senator. Bill would make it harder to hide assets more than thirty tax havens including believe the Bahamas kind of an twin-island nation of Antigua. Bermuda. So that was just. This recent news coming out of Trinidad and Tobago where all these leaders are meeting and that was provided by the Associated Press and I wanted to share that with you. It's twenty one minutes into the show. Tomorrow is the second panel wall. Fundraising as for concerned believes incorporated in Chicago last two weeks ago we had the members on the show talking about the event and talking about the. Organization if you can remember, you can always go back to. Talk Radio Dot com forward slash Edwin Hyphen Cologne, and look at the past listen to their show and And listen to them talk about organization and what they're trying to do to help underprivileged kids in Belize with Education speaking of Education again on the news this week out of the lease was the primary school students. who to. The price of a nation part of it, which was written part. And shockingly what came out of the results for this written Written pieces. Was a regarding abuse at home and most of it according to the news and the people that were Checking these people as grading these papers in has really graphic. Stuff. stuff. The content of graphic nature. About sex and sexuality and all this stuff. I. Was quite shocked to read to read this Piece of information I remember back in ninety seven when I took the pse back then it was known as being a seat. I was never inclined to try to write about something like that. In fact, I was barely had any encounters or experiences. That would lead me to write something like that. So it's quite something This is something very interesting and quite serious look at and You know this it also helps to explain why a lot of our children down in beliefs are being abused and so many Arrests being made. for. For a child abuse, sexual abuse and all that stuff. and. It's really I. Mean it's really intriguing and for me I think that you know somehow one way or the other we all citizens we need to be starters is we need to try to get rid of all of this nastiness You know that's affecting our children and affecting our lives as well. You know. So I just that was just interesting about the way that these kids who are just you in Grade Eight. Basically for for US terms I mean this is what they would write about. You know sexual encounters and and just the graphic nature of it as these news agencies from these are reported earlier this week. I'd like to send some shots to all you people listening to my radio show. Tonight I'd like to send our shot to mark West we and his family DJ Straw, and his family listening to the show and also. To Wilma here all the way down in Punta Gorda. likes to send US show. It's all the way to. New York where Oliver Galvez and also Herman Zuniga. And Maurice Abdallah. And who else am I missing? and Mr Terence Genus? Yeah. They're all listening to the radio show and out West like to send out to my friends in Colorado and Wyoming. No, you are just. Trying, to get over to brutal wetter that's going on off the You know it's just to this point everything that's going on. Anyway This is in Cologne very talk show. Back and music from. Like at about the score here. In my show a few weeks ago. So this this is just one of their songs and I. Hope you enjoy it. We'll be right back with more after every corn variety talk show. Bill. then. the. Can bowl. The Were A. Oh. Rats by. With friend. Of. Alone. Oh. to. Go. Go. I'D Use. Oh. Yeah that was trying to lose where where could I go just different types of music, but it's really nice My friend Joe didn't mind was on the show a few weeks ago and that was his. Performing that music? This is more of the. Talk. Show. We have thirty more minutes into the show and I just want to say next week. I'm GonNa have some my news. From new stuff on the news path I meant to say with the radio show we're going to be in and forget in with the the entire two hours with some new guests and then you for. For the show we also GONNA. Try to get. The believes in post TV show by constrained by then. So you may. Be Able to see US streaming live in the new studio backdrop that we're GONNA be having for believes in pulse and all this happens. then. Thank. TV. which is a subsidary of Sunday film company that I I'm the president for now. This weekend. It's quite a lot happening and we wait to see what will come out of a follow discussions that world leaders are having. while the thirty somewhere leaders are having in Trinidad and Tobago but we can't overlook that you know the small nation of Trinidad is the first time that something of this big you know something this big is happening down there and it was you know really nice to hear that the. Security forces from neighbouring Jamaica Belize and Barbados all their security forces to come to turn it into Bego to offer security for this event. So I think that was pretty cool and and I just can't wait to see what comes out of this Entire meeting this weekend. You know I mean it would be really nice. If you know something is comes up to lessen the burden on the world economy right now just to help improve it as much as possible even though there's been reports little gleam of hope you know for the global economy, there's still some more so much more than that we can do and then next weekend I wanted to try to discuss that what we can do as consumers to try to assist. And keeping the economy going you know. So many of us have like know excess spending. So many of us have extra stuff that. We don't need You know just extracts pence this you know all this stuff. So we'RE GONNA try to discuss that a little bit more especially for the lower class families I don't think there's any such thing is lower class families or higher class, but you know people use those terms, these days and You know I'm Gonna I'M GONNA try not to use that anymore I just feel like everybody together can do something to help improve the economy as much as the government and leaders who make the decisions who manage a party as much as they can do something as well. All right I'm GonNa take last music break right here on the head and Cologne variety talk show and only courage you to join me next week. Same time same place. We're GONNA be here with a full two hours with my staff while my full radio staff and guest Next week you can always listen to the show at www dot knockback radio dot com forward slash Edwin Hyphen Cologne, or you can always go to my personal website, which is www dot edwin color that PK. Now, the parent company of Sunday TV is sent films and you can always go to www. Zen Films Dot, com which is www dot x a and the E. IF I am Ms Dot com where updating the site, so you'll be seeing some new projects and new. Graphics new videos that we've been doing over the past few months and just to bring you up to speed with all that's been happening over there. Now again, we all know I just mentioned that tomorrow here in Chicago at eight PM. The hanging. Gardens concerned believes INC is having their second hand. Well, fund raising dance and it's forty dollars for the ticket and you can always go to concerned allegiance that work find out more about the death before it's too late and find out more about organization and if you WANNA help. On I'll be right back with the final leg of my show. So just keep it knocked to the Variety. Talk Show here on. Talk Radio. Greg. Pool. A. Way. Do. You. something. Does. Okay Five. Ou. One Mind. That's the greed and Nipah last year under the collective with. Alita, Arba from the hit out what you know. This the last few minutes up to Evan very talk show. I WanNa thank you so much for Jews initial this weekend. Plus. Seventy seventeen thousand nine, I'm sorry I've been on there to weather these past few days. Of you know feeling much better these days now but so next weekend when you join us you better be racers suffer something positive uninspiring right here on the. Very, talk show and only on talk radio dot com you can always download our podcast. In case you missed the show on I, tunes dot com, or if you have ideas to search for the editing call on variety talk showing podcast section, you can also done node the episodes on your ipod or your iphone. So I mean that's very cool and you know listen to us. Wherever you may go. The number one always calls Carlos is six, four, six, nine, one, five, eight, nine, nine to listen to the show live every time right here on the Edmund Corn Variety talk show on behalf of everybody talk radio on my show. I like to say thank you so much I got this you may you have money more blessings, each and every time, and especially for the week coming so I'll see you again next week and I hope that you join me again. Same time same place only on the in Cologne variety tax show objects.

United States Chicago Evan Cologne Edwin Hyphen Cologne President Barack Obama Trinidad Cologne Edwin Colin Cuba Edwin Collen Americas World Wildlife Fund Edwin Cologne Cuban President Raul Castro Caribbean Community America Belize Colorado INC
32:1 - The Unsustainable Ratio

Global GoalsCast

43:55 min | 1 year ago

32:1 - The Unsustainable Ratio

"The world has existed for forty five million centuries. But this is really the first century when one species, the human species can determine a planet fate. We're use Moore's horses. And we are having a heavy footprint, which is affecting the biosphere and affecting the climate consumption rates. Meaning consumption rates of water fuel and other resources nettles in the developed world on the average about thirty two times those in the poorest countries. And that means that one American citizen has the impact of the world. Thirty two Kenyans. It's becoming increasingly impossible to have a stable world with big differences, in standards living's around the world, the only stable outcome is going to be a world with much more equal standards of living around. Welcome to the global goals cast explores, how to change the world that world of ours, particularly the rich world is consuming more than our planet can sustain eighty hour lease. There's already know us well, as we do that we are born in eating and tossing away so much that both the air and the seas will be ruined he, we do not make changes. They also know that, while there is some action going on. We are not moving fast enough. Yes. So what we're going to show you today are two different ways. We can approach the problem from two pretty stellar thinkers, Jared diamond and Martin REEs. Plus we're going to share with you a sustainable energy solution that already serves a million people in Africa and is scalable right now to billions of people all around the world. I this message from the sponsors who make this a sustainable podcast. This episode is sponsored by MasterCard. And our thanks to CBS news digital and to Harmon the official sound of global goals cast. Welcome back. I'm eating lush. I am cloudy Romo Edelman very lucky to be sharing. The same actually physical plays. It's a recording. I know special here we are in can at the Cannes lion festival at six o'clock in the morning. Yeah. Actually, in a very little room that is not sound protected like our studios, so we apologize for that saying, we're strong like superman and George zero woman was gills lounge trees to be here with this great. So we're going to have a great API so today because we're going to be talking about how the end of the century may feel like a long way off. But actually, it is within the lifetime of the people alive today. Our Keats eighty will be in their nineties, by the tour of the century. Oh, this crazy to imagine that our kids will be that old. You know. So one of the questions, we will ask is. How can we learn to think long term, or at least longer term to protect the world of the day after tomorrow, the one our children and grandchildren will live in an I think cutter that you will be a cool granny like totally? You can picture it right? Like Behan is the motorcycle, the boot the question really is what kind of a world will we believing their motivation behind the episode sustainable development goal number twelve responsible production and consumption. We hardly hear about this goal. I need my not sound very dramatic like ending over tea or educating everyone, but actually Isa's remark on like every other goal, it is connected to so many other goals. Climate change, sustainable leasees life in the we want to understand the problem. And we want to take a stop and how. Press it. So I sought out Jared diamond. He's a professor at my alma mater. UCLA go Bruins and a Pulitzer prize winning author of books on why civilizations succeed and fail. His new book upheaval looks at our modern world. I kicked off by asking him about the world's population growth. Human population is a subject that was at the forefront thirty forty years ago when many people said, it's the biggest problem for the world since then we've learned. No, it's not the biggest problem for the world. What counts is not the raw number of people, what counts is the total consumption rate because there's enormous variation between people's consumption rates in different parts of the world consumption rates. Meaning consumption rates of water fuel, and other resources metals in the developed world on the average about thirty two times those in the poorest countries. And that means that one American citizen has the impact of the world thirty two Kenyans a mentioned, specifically Kenyans, because there are many Americans who feel indignant and concerned about the growing population of Africa. And yes, it's a tragedy for Africa. But as far as the impact on the world. And is concerned fifty million Kenyans equivalent to one point seven million Americans can is trivial for its impact on the world. That's why I say what counts is consumption rates rather than population. Climate change is often. Equate climate change is arguably the worst effect of over consumption were burning way more fossil fuel than the atmosphere can hold safely. There are those who say technology will save us from having to cut consumption engineering, the damage back out of the atmosphere diamond disagrees there were proposed GOP engineering solutions of scattering iron particles in the ocean, shooting things into the atmosphere and calculations of made that they to produce such and such effect. And behold, they do have that affect in the laboratory. The problem is that have a manipulation works in the laboratory is not necessarily good predictor of how it will work up in the atmosphere and the prime example of that is chlorofluorocarbon gases in the laboratory CFC's absolutely been on. It turned out something unpredictable. That's sees released into the atmosphere destroy the ozone layer which protects us against ultraviolet light. And it's a really serious. It took about twenty years to establish the chemical industry, kicked and screamed and say said, no CFC's innocent turned out. They were not as and took twenty years to convince people, and I will give you one more example, because today, it seems so ridiculous. One of my teachers at university, he was officially old that he was alive in the first decade on the nineteen hundreds when automobiles were replacing horses on the streets of New York, and Boston, and as automobiles began to replace horses people were thrilled because horses deposit manure and the Clack Clack the hooves on the street is noisy until what automobiles came in people said, thank God with automobiles cities are now going to be clean and quiet. Unexpected side effects of or. Let me read you a quotation from your book. So does this mean that climate change is unstoppable? No, of course, not climate change is being caused overwhelmingly by human activities. So all we have to do in order to reduce climate changes to reduce those human activities. That means burning less fossil fuel getting more energy from renewable sources such as wind solar, and nuclear. So it sounds easy, right? The principles easy. The only difficulty is in persuading people to do it. That's for say persuading people to burn less fossil fuel, and that requires two things less energy consumption, overall and more of that energy coming from non-fossil fuel sources to really is very simple. And there are people who are inclined to do it now. We have to get more people inclined to do it. Government action can help by making it illegal to do various things, for example. My understanding is that big cars, like humvees with low gas mileage, like six miles per gallon in the United States may incur, low automobile taxes, they can be classified as fallen vehicles all other things, which means that, that it's cheaper to buy a humvee than to buy a Prius. Whereas in Europe big vehicles are tax equal. To the cost of the car's health, that's to say, if you choose to buy humvee, that you're privilege, what you will pay double world market price of the humvee to drive Humby, a that is a way to discourage people from buying gas guzzling vehicles in insure a combination of government action at personal decisions can reduce burning fossil fuels. So the other issue is, of course, the apparently low cost of fossil fuels. So how do we include those indirect costs of? A liter of fossil fuels, or a gallon of gasoline. Simple way would be to include in the price of fossil fuels the damage cost of the fossil fuels, incur, if fruit Zampa l- a farmer chooses to spread oil overs field for some reason, and the oil leaks to a neighbor's fields. And the neighbor sues the first former the neighbor will win the war suit and will make the first pharma pay for the damage done to the fields of the second farm fossil fuels doing that. They're producing costs for the entire world. But when you buy your gasoline, California for four dollars and twenty three cents a gallon in Los Angeles now, yes, the gas cost for all twenty three cents a gallon, but it causes thirty five dollars per gallon of damage to the whole world, and that thirty five dollars or to be included, if you want to drive a car, and burn, gas and have your Humby by all means do so, but you should have to pay the thirty five dollars for the damage that you'll causing. What do you say about the indirect costs of renewables, so people who don't like solar farms because of the impact that has on the desert tortoise, for example, in California or birds killed by windmills? What about the indirect costs? They're just renewable do have indirect costs, which need to be taken into account, the solar fields in the decifit, California. They do remove habitat for desert tortoises and therefore the appropriate for so foams also to set aside two and fifty thousand dollars per square mile Sola fallen in order to mitigate the damage to the desert tortoises, and as for windmills. Yes. Windmills do kill Margaret birds and bats last estimate. Eyeso- windmills, kill some forty five thousand birds per year in the United States will an outdoor cat. It turns out kills three hundred herbs per year, and therefore, the windmills, the United States, all the. Equivalent of what one hundred thirty five cats the to mitigate windmills, you can mitigate windmills, if you eliminated hundred thirty five cats. Yes, we should do that. But that's pretty cheap. Of course. I would rather eliminate one hundred thirty five cats. Bells around. So we're in Europe here, and there is a strange to Kadhamy between Europe and the United States Americans have a higher rate of energy consumption, which is twice Europe's, and that's despite Europeans enjoying higher standard of living than Americans. True that Americans have roughly double the rate of fuel consumption of Europeans. Part of the reason of course, is the distances in the United States, Lauder and your jet plane burns more fuel. If you fly from Boston to Los Angeles than if you fly from London to Manchester. That's part of the reason the other reason is that Americans are very wasteful of energy, particularly with respect to our automobiles and we do not make Americans pay for the privilege of driving their humvees in their other gas, guzzling automobiles until recently the existence of poor people elsewhere in the world didn't constitute a threat to the overindulgent over consumptive, lifestyles of those who lived in the United States, but that has changed. Those poor people out there in the past sixty years ago didn't pose a threat to Americans because number one. They didn't have television cellphones and they didn't know about the wonderful joyous lifestyle in the United States firsthand and Secondly with the methods of travel. First time I came to Europe in nineteen fifty I came by ship nowadays. When would never dream of coming by ship to Europe on new fly fly by airplane, people move, much more easily round the world, and that means among other things that they can immigrate immigrate much more easily, so there's much more immigration pressure. It's understandable, that people from the -veloping world, wont, move, because they have much less satisfactory lifestyle. And they know that the government is not going to solve the lifestyle within their lifetime with them lifetime and the children. So, of course they want to migrate. But migrating also means increasing the impact of world or what means is that the a stable world requires a more equal world. It's becoming increasingly impossible to have a stable world with dig differences. In standards of living around the world, the only stable outcome is going to be they world with much more equal standards of living around. World does have a track record of solving really thorny problems. And some of those problems include delineating overlapping economic zones along the coast. In shallow water, wherever you get to countries that are Jason to each other with seacoast the likely to have overlapping coastal economic zones, and it is really thorny to decide how to delineate the economic zones of adjacent. Countries. Nevertheless, negotiations were carried out all around the world with the result that there is agreement on economic zones between every neighboring country that has echoes that was a really difficult problem. But then again, she -ation succeeded another negotiate us from that succeeded was establishing a framework for mining minerals from the seabed on the floor of the of the mineral Najah lls, which essentially, pure minerals, the technique. Was available from wining the minimum Najah on the ocean bottom decades ago. But there wasn't a legal framework. Meaning that if you sent out one country sent out or ship to suck up minerals, here, another country could send out a chip two hundred feet away and suck up those same minerals. Therefore, there was not nobody wanted to invest in the economics of, of harvesting minerals from the ocean floor. But now in the last few decades, the is a legal framework, it was again, forty to negotiate one of the things that made it difficult to negotiate is that all of those landlocked countries like Zambian, Mongolian Bolivian lows were screaming, this does us. No good. Those countries that have seacoast the other ones that can suck up the minerals and there's no way we can suck them up. So, of course, we're not going to agree to a plan that allows those countries in the seacoast suck up the minerals, they were negotiations and the result on the Goshi Asians, which took a decade or couple of decades. Is that the landlocked countries? Bolivian zambia. They get fifteen percent of the royalties that are produced by the coastal country difficult negotiation. Those examples of the world, resolving by negotiation difficult problems of competition between nations since we saw those difficult problems that gives some grants for optimism that we also saw climate change non sustainable resource use one can Jack well, climate change is more difficult than those problems that we've solved this more difficult than the middle on the ocean floor. And yes, it's probably true that climate change is more difficult. But the fact is that there's a framework and the framework has succeeded in many difficult cases. We also live in a world in which corporations companies, some of them have much larger GDP's, if they were to be a country Zambia you mentioned is in terms of its GDP is actually much lower than a lot of the companies listed on the S and P five hundred or the footsie one hundred so what role. Do you see that corporations that business can play in this world twenty years ago, I would've answered the role that business plays in the world is evil because Sambia, if not only smaller than Coca Cola and Chevron but Zambia doesn't do evil to the rest of the world. We were Coca Cola and Chevron and WalMart do evil to the rest of the world. They do. No good. And they're environmentally damaging the among the worst effects on the environment today. That was what I would have said, twenty years ago and there was some Justice to what has changed since then is first Jared learned. I'm I'm on the board of directors. World Wildlife Fund US. And I've been on the board of directors, the conservation international on the boards of these big environmental organizations or CEO's and leaders of Coca-Cola the head of the board of trustees of were wildlife on US was the CEO of Coca Cola and on the board of conservation international is rob Walton son of Sam Walton head of WalMart and Unilever has also been a big play with worldwildlife on I've discovered a couple of things one that they found it in the interest be environmentally clean. That's not to say that big corporations are environmentally clean across the board. Yes. S Ulan will some really bad things. But also some big corporations are among the most powerful forces for environmental good in the world today. And that's something that lots of Radha. Environmentalists don't want to hear about, like can discuss anything with my wife but not WalMart. So it seems that globalization, which is sort of how you end that book is both a blessing and a curse, and I wonder how you come down on it. When you think house is gonna play out maybe, not for you and me. But for our descendants, I'm laughing because when you said, globalization's both blessing curse now deploy so many things now is a blessing and curse. Curse? How can we maximize the benefits of globalization? While minimizing the damage, globalization means that ideas and technologies do spread rapidly around the world. That includes good constructive technologies as well as bad technologies spreading around the world. Globalization means that, that country's today. No longer have the option of collapsing. One by one quite a few of the most powerful societies in the past collapsed, due to environmental damage. They were auto sufficient, they depended largely on their own resources. And so, when the classic Maya civilization of the Catan, the most advanced civilization, the new world before Columbus collapsed. Nobody knew about in Europe and probably nobody knew about in the valley of Mexico either today. Society's can't collapse one by one because they are supported by other societies. That's an advantage of globalization. Drawbacks of globalization. Once we've talked about, namely the spread of diseases around the world, and the unstoppable movements of, of people, the challenge for us is to reduce the bad effects of globalization and to increase the good effects, just as the challenge for any couple to increase the benefits of marriage and to produce. Disadvant-. Thank you very much. I, I really appreciate your time. You're welcome. It was fascinating hearing Jared diamond describe his conversion from thinking corporations were a lot of the problem to believe in corporations are part of the solution. Just after I talked to him the financial times came out with an interesting chart that showed that only fifteen percent of the five hundred biggest businesses in the world are, on course, to reduce their carbon consumption and noth- to be in line with the Paris accords. So a lot of work steel to be done. In one place, we always joins peration from is you. You are dear listeners, eighty did you hear about our listener piece board? Jason hallmark. I did what a courageous man. He was inspired by our episodes last season, which Robert swan and his son made a challenging track to the south pole relying, only on sustainable energy, but hallmark had a challenge of his own. He was diagnosed last year with multiple sclerosis, but he didn't let that stop him three. As after the diagnosis he applied to a program. He shared about here at the global goals gust. It's called leadership on the edge. And he is spending ten days in June this year in the program to witness climate change in the Arctic. I'm bringing the lessons from to Pittsburgh. I have chills. Jason, we hope you're having a great trip. Drop us a line were very proud of you for taking action, an Email moment. We will hear from another big thing care about the future. Lord Martin Reese hit of the center, for existential risks, astronomer Royal of the United Kingdom and from enterpreneur, who has the signed solar powered electric greets so that Africa can grow without adding to the carbon problem. I another great executive from our sponsor MasterCard. With the girls for tech program that actually MasterCard launched in twenty fourteen. Again, we're going to create a new set of actors in the technology space that heretofore, just haven't been there and less. We make sure that women and girls have access to the learning to the tools to the education. That's required to not only succeed in this new economy that actually shape the new economy. We won't realize the potential of what's possible. So girls for TAC is creating future problem, solvers. That's how we see girls in the future and right now. So we have to make sure that the stem principles are shared equally, and we have a goal actually, to reach two hundred thousand girls by twenty twenty we're halfway there in twenty five countries because we're a global company with network all over the world when two hundred ten markets, when your company like MasterCard, who has reached everywhere, ubiquitous, you have an opportunity to reach everyone everywhere. That's to mean as saying from MasterCard later on. We'll hear from tar Nathan on how MasterCard used its fintech skills to ever humanitarian aid. But now we go from UCLA to coverage we do not always spend so much time in the ivory tower, I couldn't I couldn't resist interview with Martin REEs, because I have wanted to interview him for ages, my only regret is that I couldn't find a way to get in his views on black holes or whether we should send people into space or leave it to robots. Theme of my book on the future. Is that the world has existed forty five million centuries? But this is the first century when one species human species can determine the planet fate, and this is two reasons. One is that there are more of us my more empowered by technology will use more resources. And we are having a heavy footprints, which is affecting the biosphere and affecting the climate, sir. Martin talks about being deep in the anthroposophic that moment were in right now. When one species the human race is so empowered and dominant that it has the planet's future in its hands. I asked him if that means we're creating measurable physical changes to earth, that are on a geological time scale. Well, the short geological time scale really and one of the point is the biosphere and the climate have been changed. Convey slow time was an how changing on a human timescale of less than the century, which is very, very much faster and that's why species contract to climate change, and while easy to mass extinctions, and sadly, we are risking destroying the book of life before we've read it if we have mass extinctions Jared diamond spoke about internalizing, the external ity or making the coast of a car included impact than virement. Martin REEs spoke about taking another concept, the discount, rate, currently using finance to deter mind, what is worth spending now to achieve some value in the future. And what happens when you apply that approach to our impact on the environment where everyone values immediate benefits rather than deferred benefits. And of course, this is the standard discount rate that you. Use in all Ekonomi decision making how much more you value, having something now compared to one year or ten years or fifty years in the future. And of course, this discount rate, which is used by banks and everyone else is determined by Comcast nation of economic factors. But the point I would like to emphasize is that the discount rate, which is appropriate in making many economic decisions is not the one which is appropriate when we are thinking about the future of generations as yet on board. And when we think about them, we've got to not value less. What happens at the end of essentially, the now, we've got prepared to spend money now in order to alleviate any burdens people Denver sensual have, and I think the psychological reason for this is that we do care about the life chances of babies born today. He'll be alive in the second century. And if. Shameful if the legacy that we left a future generations was a depleted and more dangerous world. Part of the problem is that making the sessions for those who will leave in twenty one hundred requires making real sacrifices today. I mean, spending sacrifices lowering basement rates lower income sumptious, a lower discount rate, but we have done it before I asked her Martin if it's fair to say that climate change isn't a scientific challenge anymore because we actually know the science. We know enough science to know this, a substantial risk of something really bad by the end of a century. And that's why we need to take precautions to remove that risk. The most important thing we could do to reduce the risk of long term climate change would be to accelerate research, development into all forms of clean energy to I the recessions done the quicker advantage had made and the cost will come down. And if you think of India, where they now depend on energy from smokey stoves bunny wouldn't dumb. They need more energy. They need a grid of some kind. And if we can celebrate the development, clean, energy, those cheap, then they will leapfrog directly to clean energy and not build co foul pow stations, then do otherwise, so to accelerate energy developments is, I think important logo and that would be hard to think of a more inspirational. Challenge for young scientists and engineers than to develop clean energy quickly for the whole world there, obviously, needs to be commitment from governments and more regulation, and more encouragement for business to invest in these areas as well as for universities to invest in research. But how do you make that happen? What the, the governments can provide the right incentives and a carbon tax, particularly a fiscally neutral carbon tax, where the money raised in taxes used to no other taxes, that's attractive idea. But the portent requirement is to make the public care. So to politicians, feel, they can take these long term decisions on prioritized a long-term without losing votes. And that's the important thing, which we are lacking. So we need more charismatic individuals who can actually dissuade the public that we need to do this and be good in the long. I think when we look back through history, we know that most major changes were initiated by a few key figures, and then became mass movements and then the politicians took them up until action. That's true of slavery. It's true of civil rights. It's true of gay rights, and we hope to become true of the environments, but as a part from that I think we do have to incentivize the kind of behavior, which is help for environmentally by appropriate taxes and regulations. So it's always part of each episode to present someone who's out there trying to solve the problems. We describe today, that person is aviation Helgeson an entrepreneur, who is doing one of the things Martin Reese called for accelerating clean energy in poorer countries. The average African only one or two percent of the power of the average American and the thinking was that if people could get started with clean energy, and use that as their primary source of power, and that adding more clean energy was the cheapest and most reliable way to get more power than people would keep using it in the electrical system would grow up in a distributed manner. People know what electric city is people. No electricity is everywhere. The question for them is, how do I get it in my house and can I Ford it? And if I get a solar power system, will it work, and well, it keep working people focus on the solar panel, really the essence of an off grid solar power system is the smart battery, and the battery needs to last for years. So the reason people typically choose our systems is because he's they have Nope electric grid connection or that electric. Good connection is on. Reliable or, or unstable self sufficiency is very, very important people in these environments, because you never know what tomorrow will bring. I asked savvier how it works and why it's affordable. We designed the capacity based on your needs and particular segment. So one common example, might be a solar power system where you could power your lights and TV in fan, but couldn't power an air conditioner, fridge to an American that might be unacceptable to a middle class African or Indian household that could be exactly what they need to solve their electrical problem. And designing for the specific use allows you to hit cost targets that allow you to be as affordable as ten dollars a month. So one other aspect, we focus on integrating, the financing into the hardware so works like a prepaid mobile phone, where people pay in small increments. And when they make a payment via their mobile phone, the solar power system in their home on locks and produces power. And this allows us to extend financing at low rates, even to rural. African customers who don't have traditional credit? We don't always realize when we have discussions about consumption or over consumption. We don't always talk about over consumption of what and is that resource finite or or not finite. So electric city is not really finite. We can produce many, many multiples of what we consume even if we were all huge energy glutton's, because there's lots of ways to produce power and the good news today is that a solar panel on a rooftop is the cheapest source of electronic city for the vast majority of people in the world, so the trick than becomes an integration problem. How do we integrate that solar electricity which happens at random pans during the day when the shines to serve a billion people with reliable, power and allow people to build networks of self generated power, and this becomes very, very powerful because then communities of any? Scale, whether it's just myself and my neighbor, whether it's my town, they can electrify in a way that's entirely under their control. Most people aspire to own home rather than rent, but almost everyone in the world, rents there, trysofi now I can imagine quite a few people would prefer to own that either themselves or cooperative Lee with other members of their community. It one image sticks to my mind of like from all of the episodes, everything that we heard the problem is not population growth. It is how much we consume mean if we all consume like Kenyans, the planet will be okay. But we all seem like Americans than the world is going to be toast yet. Kenyans understandably one to improve their lives, and that means consuming more. I think that both Martin recently made the point that we need to find some middle ground. Some poor countries will interest some Sean, but that means that even more pressure should be put into the richer countries to reduce their levels of consumption that was mind blowing for me, it's not about the population growth sumptious. Yeah. So that means that everybody needs to make changes and that includes the corporations like oil, companies, I was amazed to see the beep. P report recently, the new chair of BP Helga loon saying that the world can't continue along its current path, and that a faster transition will require a huge re engineering of the energy system that's going to present a significant challenge for the world's biggest oil and gas companies. And did you see just yesterday a collection of those big oil and gas companies were together with the pope in the Vatican signing an agreement saying that they were going to adhere to the Paris agreement? So Martin Reese talked to me about how the world needs more of these big personalities like the pope, like David Attenborough using their influence to have people and companies make changes. So I was pretty excited to see that. Yeah. And I've seen it here. I mean like people are moving away from depending on governments only sees leadership is not that clear anymore. So people influencers such as, you know, companies CEO's people that they trust, like David Athens are. Taking gonna take the state and we've seen insurance companies like Munich Re saying we have to recognize climate risk, much more than we do, which, of course would increase the justification for us paying now to protect us later back to Martin reece's point. The UN is planning a summit on this topic in September. The secretary-general up onto his neck. And this will actually he wasn't in the Pacific Ocean of to his niece for a cover photo for time magazine just to dramatize the plight of Pacific island nations, that are drowning like the ones that we've spoken to before, like allow my power, our one eighty what they think of the impact that documentaries have had on the consumption of fast food, for example. Do you remember supersized Ninoy cows bureau? See, maybe there's a need to have more commensurate on plastic carbon fresh water aqua fires, and all about the cycle of consumption. I still don't have a sense that we cracked, the zeitgeist, I agree. I mean, I, I have seen just in the tube in the last week, more and more ads for different products from Unilever, for example, who I know is promising to be a hundred percent. Recyclable. A real cutback on single use plastics, I've seen some incredible new innovation. It does need to be taken up a lot faster and we are here recording from Canada. Where are the can advertisement festival on any yesterday was my first day judging go. Well, I saw a lot of tea like last year on air on plastic ongoing sumptious mon- about how companies should totally disappear stores, for example, and how that I think that that's going to become even more sexy in removing forward just walking down the cross it. I've seen a lot about equality about diversity about inclusion, so it does feel like the words at least are getting out there and their listeners if you know of commensurates that we should be highlighting on the stop is if you know of any activity that we should be highlighting let us know. And on the global goals Cass, we always give you three facts you can take away to look smart in front of your mother-in-law and three actions that you can take and today those come from our partner apolitical from Robin, Scott. It's such a pleasure to join this important podcast to share. Sweet potion facts and three simple actions for driving responsible consumption and production. The fact is that our current population of seven point seven billion. People is expected to grow by a massive twenty six percent by twenty fifty that's according to the UN lake's, population report, which brings me to the book, drawdown surprisingly ranks educating girls and family planning as the six and seventh most important strategies for reducing climate change. The sad fact is that responsible consumption, increasing the invokes Pacino t's, not sacrifices take Amsterdam sharing economy initiative, which is building shed services that not only help us reduce waste, but it was a save us money and bring out communities places together. And in a world where jobs increasingly being lost mation, the International Labor Organization estimates that the green economy could create twenty four million jobs by twenty thirty. Now onto three actions. I reduce the animal products. You conceive animal agriculture accounts for whopping fourteen percent or more global emissions so garden by him guys. New me Tilton like impossible. Doug, is this not only reduces you'll meat consumption? It also incentivizes private investors and governments to put more money into innovation around alternatives to meet second read the book drawdown, which tells you all things you can do and shouldn't do what matters most. It has some amazing facts like how you despise of your pitcher. Writer really, really matters third vote for politicians was policy solutions, such as descend, others wellbeing budget, which takes the focus of GDP alone. The scale of this challenge requires the scale of policy, so fun, April co on Twitter and apolitical dot CO, two examples of policies that are working around the planet for the planet. Thanks for listening and for Karen. And now a little more from our sponsor MasterCard. What the MasterCard eight network was was a digital wallet. That enabled a beneficiary who was sitting in a remote place, whether in Yemen in a disconnected environment with no mobile phone coverage with no power, no electricity. The ability to receive digitally their food in their humanitarian benefits. What this does is because they're receiving digitally, it gives that beneficiary. The ability to redeem at a local marketplace, just like you are, I would it enables them to redeem their benefits for fresh fruits and fresh vegetables, and to actually make healthy choices for their families. The other side of that really is what it does for the organizations that service, and that serve these beneficiaries, like the, the NGOs, who partner with, and that is it gives them a more cost effective way, a more auditable more transparent. Way to provide these benefits. That was tarnished. If MasterCard who sponsored the entire season of global goals cast, we thank them for being with us the entire way. That's it. This is bestowed on two of the goals gas. Thank you. Thank you to all our guests. Thank you to all of our listeners. You can find that more on our website, global goals, gas dot org. Please, like unsubscribe where ever you get your book. Guests on follow us on social media at goals gas. See you in season. Three the three Cy know. Music in this episode was by Neil hill, Andrew Phillips and Jelica Garcia, Simon James, Katie krone, and as she pillow. This episode was made possible with the support of MasterCard CBS news, digital and Harmon the officials sound of global goals cast. We want to give a special thanks to our interns, for the summer Darcy Nelson. Addie gates, be, and Ashley SQL we could not have done this without you and thank you to Keith Reynolds from spoke media for lending us. His ear.

Jared diamond MasterCard United States Europe Martin Reese Martin REEs Jason hallmark Africa Martin UCLA California World Wildlife Fund US Harmon CEO
Flooding, Climate Change and Art: Creative Community Engagement

America Adapts the Climate Change Podcast

1:24:29 hr | 2 years ago

Flooding, Climate Change and Art: Creative Community Engagement

"Hi, everyone. This is America adapts the climate change podcast. Head after's. Welcome back to nother exciting episode of America Depp's, we're gonna be talking to experts about flooding art and community engagement. This is the second ups owed in a four part series. I'm doing with need event Braida of World Wildlife Fund for those who thought this was a three part series. Well, we got so much excellent content. We had to expand it to four episodes Anita joins me again on these interviews, and I'll go into more detail on what we hope to accomplish with the series. But the overall goal is to highlight all the complexities associated with flood management. Needless to say, the first episode was incredibly popular. I hope you enjoy the second one. We have a line of interesting guests who focus on creative ways to communicate around this topic of flooding community engagement is always a challenge in these three innovative thinkers share their experiences on effective ways to engage and we'll dig into the role of climate change. And we'll talk about nature based solutions to flooding. I want to highlight that this four part series has been generously. Sponsored by World Wildlife Fund. I greatly appreciate their interest in using podcasting. As a story. Device to share important information. They have been great partners. I encourage you to check out the resources, they provided my show notes. We want the series to become a major source to not only flood planners, but the general public that wants to be better informed on what's happening in this critical area of disaster-management. Okay. Some brief housekeeping. I started anything for the podcast letters from doctors. I'll try to do to each episode. But I'm very limited time in this one's on just going to include one. But this is a great one. This is from Terry Tetum in from Santa Cruz high. Doug, I'm not an adaptation professional actually, Emma caregiver for ex girlfriend, who's disabled caregiving is very rewarding and super important job. But can be for me pretty boring at times. So I try to keep stimulated and engaged by educating myself on bits of free time has started to change a few years back and quickly hooked. I heard the climate one podcast on the local radio station in quickly listened to most of their library podcasts. I start searching Google play for other climate change related podcast and found years. I've been working my way through your upsets for. A couple months now, I certainly think of myself as an adapter, even if not professionally I'm not sure if this counseling to your definition of that option, but here's some ways, I think an apply climate adaptation in my life as non-professional there's certainly some mitigation crossover in these actions, of course, one here in Santa Cruz. I grow pretty much all my own produce year round in my front yard garden and trade for homegrown eggs with the neighbor, not only is fine. But, but if it catches on as a trend, it could help adapt to potential climate related food, insecurity, at least ten neighbors told me they've started their own gardens because of being inspired by ours too. I walked back and use electric skateboard for pretty much all my local transportation, which helps reduce traffic congestion increases community engagement. This may be a stretch as an attestation action. But if enough people out of their cars, it could significantly change the city landscape and city planning three I'm planning on switching to accomplish toilet in the near future and installing rainwater harvesting to adapt to our drought-prone watershed and four I'm also working on getting off natural gas. Switching all electric before. Installing solar help take pressure off the grid. I think of life like an orchestra. We all have different parts to play. But if we can harmonize and work together, we can create something beautiful PS. Thanks for the content and keep up the great work. Cheers, terry. All right, Terry. No. Thank you. What? An awesome Email. Thanks for what you do. And thanks for your interest in climate adaptation. It is an emerging issue, and it comes in many shapes. I think we will see emerging of mitigation in tation in the years to come and probably including many of the things that you do. But thanks again for riding super cool upcoming episodes next up is mainstreaming adaptation with Sean Martin of World Wildlife Fund, and I'm also doing another end of the Europe. So which are so much fun to do all have guest panel going over the big stories of the year. Just a reminder your favorite minder America dabs, a charitable organization that that needs your support. Please consider giving a tax deductible donation you can find the links to the we did at donate page in the show notes. This is a group that actually takes. The donations. I am a five one three in case, you're interested. Also, if you're interested in sponsoring specific podcast or having me speak at a public or corporate event. Please reach out. I've been doing some keynote presentations, and there are a lot of fun. I share stories from the podcast and my own experiences in adaptation and give my insights more. I think we're going. Okay, adapters. Let's join our guests and get creative. Hayed after's. Welcome back to a very exciting episode of American apps before we jump into this episode. I wanted to check in with Anita van Breda from the World Wildlife Fund by now most of you know, Anita very well. She was on the previous flooding episode episode one and she's here for par to hen you. Welcome back to the podcast hideout. How are you? I am doing great welcome back to the podcast. I always love having you on. And so I hate to do this. Because most of my listeners probably know who you are in Anita will be joining me for all these interviews. But could you briefly just explain who you are? Sure. I'm the senior director for environment and disaster management at were wildlife on part of our climate change at uptight and resilience team. Okay. So this is the second episode in now a four part series, and we'll get we'll explain that a little bit later since this is our second episode on flooding. Why is World Wildlife Fund so interested in the topic of flooding? So in my program, we look at how. How to integrate environmentally responsible practices into disaster recovery? And reconstruction and floods are the number one disaster around the world, but we inevitably f we also as, you know, work on a lot of different ecosystems and environmental management issues, and we find there is a good combination in this issues around flooding in terms of reducing risk to future disasters such as floods but also trying to maximize the benefits that we can get from a natural process such as flooding. So we want to reduce risk for people keep people safe, but also use environmentally responsible practices to be part of a flood management portfolio. If you will okay, I want to encourage people to go back to episode one and listen to that one. But could you do just a really brief recap? Who did we talk to? And what did we talk about in that first episode? So the flood series. Episode is part of our project on natural nature base. Flood management, which is a guidebook that we wrote in partnership with the US agency for international disaster. And in episode one we were lucky to have expert from the US army corps of engineers who was part of our advisory group for this project really talking about some of the fundamentals around the history and tradition of flood management, particularly in the US. But then we also had a research scientists from the Netherlands from a company called El Toro who was talking about the Dutch experience with flood management, and as we know they have literally thousands of years of experience in the Netherlands to share. And they're also looking at how this issue is moving into the future. And then we had Opperman who's are freshwater scientists that WWF and he did a great job of explaining some of the natural processes around water management and flood management. So. Between those three experts. We we laid the foundation of some of the issues past president future with lead management that episode has been out. Now, I think about six weeks two months it's been on for a bit. Now, what is the reception been for that? I. Road. It's been really good. It's been really interesting. We've had requests from folks who would like to get access to our guidebook and some of the learning resources we have on our website, and as you, and I've talked about before we really need to be constantly learning. If we're going to practice at Upton disaster risk reduction so to have the opportunity to engage with people through this way of communicating on a podcast. It's been really helpful on my end the reception has been fantastic. I thought since I was co hosting it with you that my numbers we're gonna die. But no that wasn't the case. The numbers have been incredible for that episode. So thanks Nita. I was thinking ill of you. But it's been the most popular episode. I've had and probably three or four months. It's just really well. And with really been interesting is the feedback is come from people that are in flooding management. But then just people that the general public that are very interested in hearing about these issues and tying into climate change. So I'm very excited about that. And so glad I'm not dragging. We'll see now knock on wood on that note is this in some ways the sequel to episode one and as everyone knows Empire Strikes Back was a superior film to Star Wars. I want this episode to be superior episode if we can make it, and I think we know what we don't want to set first episode, but it's really good. Yeah. And I just put in a plug for the past as well as the future episodes each one is going to be so different because the whole topic of flood management, which I find fascinating because it's different and evolve so many, different issues profession sectors, in points of view. So stay tuned listeners to great episodes to come as well as this one number two. Okay. So who are we going to hear from in this episode? So in this episode, we're going to hear from a range of different people who have expertise and experiences in art and communication and your listeners. Maybe wondering what does art? Communication have to do with lead management a lot. The number one issue. The thing that we in flood management struggle with probably the most is how to engage people in the process of understanding what flood risk is. And then how to address it? And so we're going to hear from people who are educators who use documentary film as a way of engaging people in a way is teaching students, and we're going to hear from an artist who uses a range of different media mediums engage young people as well as others. And then we have research scientist, who's working in Chicago who comes from a public health background, but is now working on engaging community members in the on issue of climate, change, adaptation and flood management. They were fantastic conversations. I'm looking forward to sharing these with all you guys out there in. So without further ado, let's jump. Into these conversations and news going to be back with me at the end. And we're gonna do short little round up. But all right. Let's get started looking forward to. Hey, doctors on talking with Dr video vinca Ramadan videos post doctoral, fellow in the anthropology department at Northwestern University. Video focuses on how community engagement and participation can improve the implementation of water sanitation in hygiene, and environmental sustainability programs. Welcome to the podcast video. Thanks for having me. Well, that was very simple introduction. I try to do little bio for all my guests. But is there? A bit more information you you'd like to share on them. Sure that your work as much more complicated than that. I think a lot of the stuff doesn't end up rocket science. But, you know, working with people often the most challenging I think the one thing I would say that kind of work in research that I do really is at the intersection of pig -nology and human behavior, so try to understand how to human beings interact with what we kind of think of traditionally more, engineering technological Maine's into how can we adapt per grams and interventions that really can to have more of a technical technological focus. But how can we adapt them based on how people will be interacting with these technologies will be benefiting from them. So that ranges from water sanitation hygiene programs and also flood management so overabundance of waters while that was a much richer explanation. Thank you. All right. So you. Do work all of the world. And it looks like you've had an interesting journey. So what has led you from international relations international health? And now it looks like you're focusing on community engagement and water at Northwestern University. Can you describe that journey a little bit I grew up in India Japan? So I got to experience a lot of very diverse context. In terms of just geographically culture that also says economically until I a lot of public health involvement issues reveal at the forefront by like growing up whether it was poor sanitation or flooding inside got into public health to really try to understand infectious diseases intended tation on behavior, and that took me down the road of communities are alternately would matter and so studied and worked in China understand community led approaches to improving Burleson patient around Asia Africa, the Caribbean and realized recently that you know, a lot of these tools and techniques lessons learned from working in lower middle income. Settings around the world also apply to my very neighborhood. Sharon, chicago. And so that really got me more interested in trying to understand domestic issues around water around flooding around the environment into the kind of work that I'm starting to work on now here at northwestern is really very domestic in how do people interact with nature nature based solutions ahead of people experienced flooding, and what kind of technologies and solutions can be have both in terms of the hardware. So actual flood protection mechanisms, but also the software really engaging communities in raising awareness patrol to improve people's line. You work with them at all this a long time ago. But are you involved with Chicago, wilderness, always sort of had an interesting mission? There have you heard of them very much. So yeah, actually on the buys me for their climate change at -cation for the prairies midwest. So we were just at a meeting just on Monday to talk about how can we basically create a climate adaptation plan or this entire region that takes both the conservation goals into account also people's communities perspective and how they will be engaging with nature. So it's actually those of a bold name Chicago, wilderness, not to typically associated with each other. So you are involved with community in that means a lot to different people. So how would you define the scope of your work? What community engagement is? That's a really great question. I think that's usually what I start off with is this definition of community. What does it mean? I think it can mean so many different things in depending on the context of you said. And so even in the work that I have done and doing will continue to try to do it's going to have different definitions. But I think one of the maybe underlying Steen's hind it is really trying to understand in a deeper way. What people's perspectives are what their priorities are kind of co producing. I know that sometimes uses the buzzword, but it really is needing co producing the the knowledge the interventions and the impacts with people on keeping them as, you know, the the people who are actually going to end up benefiting from project keeping them in mind involved in the process from the beginning all right through to the end. So it's not just paying lip service to this idea that oh, we're just gonna work with communities, but really trying to understand Issur community. The neighborhood block is at the city overall. Or is it just certain civic groups official groups than it really will depend. So that's sort of the first step is to ask. Question. Community engagement can be broadly defined. So think about in the context of flood management does community engagement take on its own persona when you're dealing specifically with that issue. I did say that it's always down the context, but it really is talking about a flood management intervention at a very very local level than your community is likely going to be the the households the sort of it's a rural setting village cluster or hamlets in an urban setting the work. We're starting to do in Chicago, it's going to be at the block level. So that will be our community. And that's how would then start to get people's perspective and priorities start to say who should be at the table who all should be at the table as we're designing this work. But if you're flood management intervention project program is really done at the city level. You're going to bring in a variety of different community stakeholders, so at that point, you're going to bring in urban planners, flood management experts. You're going to bring in other community leaders that may not be in immediate sense, very obvious partners table, but you're talking about intervention city level. So you wanna be sure to invite? Golve sanitaire engineers bring all spoke to the table. Some of the folks that we've been talking to have expressed the challenge in we've seen it as well in the development of our flood green guides that if you're bringing in the commute this the so-called community at the point where you've decided on your intervention than it's already too late men at the community needs to be an people as you eloquently defined them need to be brought in at the get go in terms of even the definition of of the problem can can you comment on that a bit in terms of in continuum of understanding what is the flood risk in place. Who defines that problem? On how it terms of your expertise around community engagement, which would you agree that it's advantageous to bring people. The people in the very early stages to help define the problem before you start choosing technical solutions. Yeah, I think that's actually one of the main point that as social scientists people who kind of work in the realm of community based research, we try to really emphasize is this need to start very early when you're engaging the community. I think we've seen this example in it goes far beyond just on blood management. But we've seen this in every domain. I would say that community engagement is really something where you're informing the community put new doing, and I think that the repurpose so it really is very important to bring them in. And maybe realize that what you as technical person thoughtless the main flood risk challenge. In this community is not really the main priority for people who live there, and it's something else. And so really doing that initial stage understanding their priorities in perspective will help shape the kind of project that you might want to implement Netflix. So do you have examples recommendations for the folks that are working on those types of interventions methods or techniques or approaches for community engagement that they that they can make those earliest stages of a process actually, a variety of social science methods that are available participatory research methods in participatory appraisal methods that are there. I just used all of these technical terms, but really sometimes pushes people away. Oh, you're just gonna be doing some kind of rigorous research. We don't have the means for that. But I think these tools are methods really applicable in a very practical way to trying to engage with communities from the beginning of aquar-. Example is a community eating our focus group discussions that you can do as part of the research side will call it formative search, but it can be called whatever you want via is that you are. I introducing yourself to this community that I'm putting in quotes because in air quotes because of the definition of it. But you're going in your this is what it is that you want to that you're thinking of doing, but tell us about your experience tells about your lights, tell us about how leading affects you and through that process. You start to understand. Oh, in some cases, navy flooding really isn't the immediate concern. But there's actually something down there that needs to be dressed first before we get to flooding, and that's really those community meetings in the open-ended questions where you're really trying to learn from someone can help you figure out what it is that you want to accomplish with the community. Thank you. You have a bit of a history with NATO working as a trainer on. On the flood green guide in the workshop in Bangkok earlier this year. What did you learn from the experience? And did it affect your thinking at all on flood management? A fascinating experience. I do have to think Nita world one for giving me that opportunity to participate has so often seen that community engagement and social sciences broadly, and all of these kinds of I'm going to put an air quotes that are used Bill get brought to the table when recalling about these kinds of technological engineering based interventions, and so it was really very lovely to be involved in that approach entity working with so the participants that we had who were from remember correctly nine or ten countries around Asia who are largely thinking about records management from the very problem solving approach standpoint viewpoint by bringing in this community perspective, which we brought in actually one of the last activities in the workshop it gave them in opportunity to think about. What are all the stages of the process in which we could involve communities in? How would we do that? So at first there was a little bit of hesitation confusion about what exactly we were going to be doing. But I noticed that by the end of our session, people seem to have really taken some of these ideas to heart, and it was really exemplified by the next day. This was the third day of the workshop all the participants in their groups had to come up with a flood risk management plan. A very interactive plan, very visually attractive plan. And I was really very really warmed my heart to see that all the groups incorporated the community at the center of their clan and really talked about zooming. These focus group discussions than eatings trying to do interviews with informants in the community to try to understand one. What the needs were. But whether they're projects were actually going to be effective or not and these are really incorporated into their plans, which to me with a sign this. Can actually be integrated arm into flavors management planning in very very useful with that's actually a compliment to you too. That you are able to connect with the participants in the way that you did influence their thinking and their behavior. So so it's our thanks to you for helping make that a reality. And we're hoping to carry all of that good work and approach forward in future training. So you helped lay the groundwork for really emphasizing the the key role that this this unwieldy topic calls community gauge -ment in air quotes, what that really means for her flood risk management. I just wanted to ask you the one one other quick follow up so flood green guide is about promoting and supporting the use of natural in nature based methods as part of a flood risk management portfolio. Do you think or do you have any experiences with or could you comment on is there anything different? About natural nature based flood management methods for this topic versus any other topic. Or is it all the same? When it comes to community, gauge -ment. My my period. This is not going to save us as declarative statement by any means, but what I would I observe especially with my background in a rural sanitation as well is the nature base methods offer an opportunity, but also a a major obstacle in terms of acceptance in adoption of this kind of approach by people on the one side, you have for millennia people have been using floods to help them on have been had their own nature based methods of always had nature of working around flooding so using it to their benefit but also protecting themselves from harmful floods into. That's an opportunity for me is to try to cap into the historical kind of our president that we have for using nature to both help and protect the obstacle that. I see is undesired draw the parallel with with sanitation technologies where we try to put have people. Pride. Adopt composting toilets, which is something I'm very cashing about. But it says a barrier to enter their because what people have seen is that likely beak large, great ingineers systems is sort of aspirational. It's what we want. So while people might say that oh great that you're going to, you know, put in a rain garden or helper degree constructor wetland here. We wanna see something you wanna see cement. We want to see something that built that's going to actually protect us and trying to convince people of the benefits of the many different benefits that are available for nature based methods as opposed to the traditional methods batch where the area is around her sections in expiration rights. So we have our work cut out for us. In other words, the separately. Okay. Yeah. I think of enjoy they were trying to expand right pairing areas from fifteen feet to fifty feet because I was going to play a big role in water quality in it just was pulling teeth to extend it out that way. And of course, it was through your local commission, and there's all these sort of say jump through. And I get what you're saying that sometimes that gets in the way of actually doing things quickly versus the voluntary model, which has its own problems. But yeah, it's a challenge. I've found it's challenge everywhere in some places where I've worked Doug internationally where we've tried to support that approach people just move into those spaces because they have a few choices. Elsewhere. So particularly in urban areas, it's very difficult to conceive and design and development enforce that type of land use planning. And that's always a big key anywhere. No matter what country you're in land. Use planning such a key to managing flood risk and can be difficult under the Vesa circumstances. No matter which end you're coming from exactly using the temple of India when you have such tense population pressures as well in a lot of lot of large cities. But you know in India's small town is a large city another context. And so you have challenges there that as Anita was saying, even if you do have all of these different laws in place, you have even if you have willing interest. Partners in the local government in the city. Government state government who understand the value of nature base methods for flood management or any kind of flood or Spanish options there often unable to really implement them one in the face of population pressure, but often also in the face of corruption and that can be one of those lists spoken about challenges that face so just earlier the Sierra late last year, we had intense flooding in devastating flooding in the state of terror learns India, and the came out of that was the all ready had reports from ten years ago, saying these all the different types of interventions that needed to be in place to prevent a package traffic flooding. None of it was actually implemented in practice. And it's not simply because we often just been liked to blame the state government or the central government, and it's really a confluence of different factors that don't allow that to happen. I just have a couple more questions. That you have a couple, but I'll just transition to those. Well, this is going to put you in spot here. But what's your experience with story telling part of community engagement, and I think you've sort of touched upon a little bit of your answers. But has that played a role at all going to increasingly payroll? I'm put it that way, the work that I've done thus far has I could just be honest at it hasn't been in the poli- fully participatory way. But I would want work to be on using the working. We're gonna be doing in Chicago opportunity to really engage in a much more meaningful way into one of those aspects as storytelling working also with the nature conservancy here in own way. And we're trying to get some community based research going in communities that live around a prairies very urban prairies that are really the last on hold heads in in southern sir south of Chicago suburb, and we wanna really try to understand. Band people's experiences. They're both on experiences with nature with conservation with flooding and with flex lease management into the wave that we're going to do this is through storytelling, and is capturing people's narratives. And then hopefully, also sharing our learnings and potentially in the future interventions through more of this kind of engagement through really trying to not to try to like, I guess communicate in the most effective manner that is helpful to communities with which we work and also I learn those very useful answer, it's not easy, but the resource this has been fabulous. This is a lot of really useful information in I think it's gonna compliment. This is part of our three part flood episode series that American doing with World Wildlife Fund. And is there any resources people listening to what we're talking about here that you would recommend any online resources any particular? Specific things that you'd recommend. Would it be the little to infighter for me to say that I plug the plug green? We linked to weed leak it every showed every episode that Joe. So it'll be there. You don't have to worry about that one. You can plug it. We may cut it out later, but we will always take shameless promotion. I really would. Yeah. I really would would say that. I mean, this very genuinely that when I did have the opportunity earlier this summer to weed the entire pink ice cover to cover. I found it to be very helpful piece. You can't cover every topic in there, or course. But I do think that all of the different sections in guide that are route to community engagement citizen science monitoring evaluation said guide itself provides a lot of different sources for people to read more. And so I think that to me would be really the primary document resources available right now civically for commuting gauge for for nature based methods. But we're also if I if I can sort of plug a little bit of the work that we're doing it semantic reviews of the evidence on community engagement in community impact, social health impacts all nature base methods for flood management until refining there that there isn't much really. Useful information there at the moment. A lot of it is talking about the need for it. But the actual evidence is quite air. So that's something that we're gathering together hopefully able to share in the near future. But I think that one of if I could just sort of make the point that I don't think the research that are to be tailored very specifically to this topic of nature based methods for plug with management a lot of these children vailable on across the spirit of community based work that has been going on for hundreds of years. And so there are many great resources in the terms. I would sort of throughout their participatory rural appraisal PR a community based participatory research or CB PR. These are really two methods help people this is not about academic. I retire research that actually help organizations are really tried to do work with communities as opposed to just during for Kenedy. Thank you. Thank you so much. This was incredible information. I think it's really complementary to some the other information we've been getting these interviews, but really create your time in in the work that you do having any on any final words now. Thank you. This has been great so informative and inspiring. And yes, it does align nicely with some of our other discussions in further resources will be able to share with you, particularly in terms of storytelling. So thank you. Okay. Perfect. That's great. Great. I like saying that. Hit actors. I'm talking with professor Elizabeth Miller a documentary maker and professor in communication studies based at concordia university in Montreal Canada. Welcome to the podcast. Liz, thank him. All right. So you're involved with with a lot of things. But I guess first off I just wanna start with the shoreline project, and could you really summarize what's that all about? Well, sometimes I describe the shoreline project as an interactive storybook or an alternative tests textbook for the future. And whole idea was to bring solution based stories about issues around climate change and sustainability to a form that would be open successful and of interest to wide audiences like students or community groups. And so in the project, we have forty three unique short films that play out along our global coast, and we found inspiring portraits of people making chain. Change along the coast from nine different countries is this just something like a project you were able to get funded out of the university or they're sort of external partners because it seemed like it's a pretty good looking series of short films and such basically in Canada as a university. Professor we have this unique fund that is about research creation. The idea is what kind of innovative forms of research can rediscover Hebrew partnerships through new forms of media. And so I've been interested in what I'll call environmental Justice for years, and I began thinking about this new form of documentary, which can be called interactive documentary or open documentary. And I thought I would put these two passions. I have together which is documentary practice and environmental Justice. And the research question was basically how can we get innovative tools into classrooms around the world on cutting edge? In extremely important issues like flooding like climate change sea-level rise. And how can we do this in a way that inspires people rather than you know, makes people feel discouraged or worried about the future happened storytelling be at the core of this? And that was the premise of a question. I think this issue around storytelling, so interesting. And when I think about the work that I've done in my team has done over last few years, putting the flood green guy together and the opportunity that afforded us to meet with and talked to and work with such a wide range of individuals and actors organizations from so many different disciplines. And we're hoping that the the flood green guide in the promotion of natural nature base features as a flood management method will help inspire people to have a different vision of the future in a different vision of manage. Ging floods. So wanted to ask your thoughts about the role of storytelling in the role of storytelling in affecting change in changing human behavior in changing the way that people look at the world and look at the future. And maybe what you learned about that through the shoreline project at concordia. I teach a class called media, and in the end, the environment, and basically over thirteen weeks, we look at all of the different issues that we are confronted with as a planet, and we're looking at it from a wide range of storytelling practices, but also a wide range of issues. An evidently at some point in the semester, the students will just begin to feel like feel fright frightened discouraged and in thinking about this carefully. I realized that really critical part of how we get people. Involved in planning for the future is about the kinds of stories that were telling and so this project was really designed for my students in mind and one I wanted the kinds of stories that I wanted to tell were very local stories with ordinary people doing innovative things. So for example, one of the stories is a young girl named the folly, and she is high school student who became passionate about the environment. She was doing some leadership training and in this leadership training. They encourage young girls to dream big. And her idea was to plant a thousand trees around her island in order to protect it from future storms and in order to do this. She had to get every student in her school to contribute five rupees. And in can getting these five rupees was like the first step of engagement, and then she got all of her students to help her plant these trees around the island. And and so this hind of action taken by young people that involves people in their immediate community that doesn't feel like out of range was precisely the kind of solution based storytelling that I wanted to find. So we cast our net really wide and began seeking out engineers youth activists teachers artists people who were doing things that that anybody could identify with because I think the challenge is using stories to encourage people to off into actions local actions and primarily when I like to say is collaborative actions. Like, there is a lot going on in our world that is out of our control storms and flooding that is frightening and discouraging, but there's a lot of things that we can manage and part of that is is learning how to work together and finding the joy in working together. And so many documentaries stories are based on people making difficult decisions or people confronting crisis. And I wanted to frame this kind of story around people making difficult decisions. But around things that were changing their communities, who's your target audience for the website, just assuming the films are probably just, you know, you could find them individually on YouTube, and such but like who really was your target audience. When you started developing these so interactive documentary is a form of documentary practice that has been really taking place in Canada. Because there's there's quite a bit of funding for innovation in the form and one of the research questions, I had was who is the target audience. This is a form of documentary that's free that successful online. But my feeling was what if I designed an interactive documentary, primarily for the classroom, many of the work that I've done in the past has been fulfill. Film festivals or for television audiences, but the way we communicate shifting so quickly that I wanted to think carefully about the target audience. And so also realizing that the beauty of this project is that you have forty three stories from all over the world and in a place like a classroom. What you can do is watch like ten of them and stage a conversation, a friend of mine who I was just visiting in indices, no on the California coast assigned this in her classroom in she had twenty five students in each of the selected three stories, and then we staged a dialogue to talk about when inspired them how they connected to their local shoreline will kind of local heroes they had in their community. And so it's really the short-form docket. This short form of documentary. But framed within a collection is really about opening up conversation. But also about comparing the ways that peop. People are adapting to upcoming challenges needed to follow up. Liz in your experience. Can anyone be storyteller or we're working on a flood management project with a team we need to bring a professional storyteller? Or do we in that team need to become our own storytellers in? How do we go about doing that a huge challenge in trying to communicate important issues like flooding is finding the language that people will listen to. And I think that the best way to do. This is through a story storytelling is something that anybody can participate in. But it does take practice in people are shy and people get caught in the rhetoric of language that other people can't easily understand. So I know in Montreal we have this open storytelling performance session. It's called co fabulous. In people go out in share personal. Stories and it really moves people. And I think that engineers can tell stories students can tell stories I think that what we have to do is combine accord information that we want to communicate with heartfelt stories, and that means sometimes being vulnerable. It means sharing fear. It means sharing personal context. That's the kind of thing that moves people, and what we want in getting people to become more aware of issues new that you and I deeply care about like flooding and getting people informed in an acting. Oftentimes, the first thing they have to do is feel something and an understanding in a lot of young people are really like terrific messengers for stories because they aren't they don't have this language that can get in the way of communicating things that we all care about like technical language that people maybe don't have the terminology for yet. Observation on how stories that evolved. Any what's that small town just north of DC that flooded twice in three years? What was it? We were going to hell city. City. So to me, maybe don't agree any Liz, it that the city, and I think it got flooded when these one five hundred year one thousand year flood and just a lot of dramatic footage. And I felt like there wasn't a lot of of human interest stories that the bigger story was this. Why did it just keep happening in this one spot because it's very narrow area in the stories that are became this oddity of that it happened so quickly. And I mean, we're hearing more of that. But I need I don't know if you disagree, but I just didn't feel like this. I heard a lot of that human interest stories, which generally that's what we kind of hear stories from. But the actual the impact it self which I thought was interesting how the media covered it. Yeah. And I was just going to say it often the so-called general media. They do focus on the emergency in the drama involved and then quickly pivot to attack Nicole element of why did this happen or how did this happen from more of a technical perspective than from the human perspective? But but not that's not always the case. I think. With florence. We're seeing hearing at least I am a lot of real personal stories about impacts. I think one of the challenges for me working in the sector, promoting natural nature base features as an element of flood management is wanting to help people in vision, something that they don't see all the time. They don't know how to relate to it because they're used to seeing from flood perspective ac- Waller Diker Levy or concrete engineering that are fairly common. People know what that is. And I'm struggling to find ways to help people envision a combination of so called gray in green infrastructure to address the changing conditions around flood management. And that's where I think this issue around storytelling in engaging people in connecting with them. Them emotionally as well. As intellectually is tough. And we're looking around the world, for example in the shoreline project is one that we happy to find and learn from, but it's not easy to find. And it certainly not from the professional sector that I come from. Anyway, is it taught or taught very consistently as part of the skill set that people need when they go forward into their professions. So being able to find people like Liz in the opportunities for learning and developing innovation that we hear coming from Canada is great in. I'm just trying to extract. What can we learn from that? How can we support it? How can we embed it into the way that that that we in this flood management world do our work in consider who we need to work with in house it so. Interesting and the reference to allocate city and the flooding so often what we don't hear is how people are responding. So you hear sometimes the technical issues of what what floods have happened in the past. Which is certainly important interesting. You hear sometimes about bad decisions people have made about buying property in places, maybe they were precarious, but a lot of times the way people respond in crisis can be very enlightening and very inspiring. We had a story in Long Beach island of a man construction worker regular guy who after hurricane sandy he organized all the schoolteachers at his wife's local school in two brigades to help. Go door to door in help people deal with the mold that was growing in their homes and to inform people about how to manage these unwieldy insurance. Plans. And so there was this kind of contrast of sort of delayed government response to a flood because it was very overwhelming with the possibility of a community coming together. And I think that those are the kinds of stories that we can really learn from like he was basically saying we took he walked me through eight z how he brigades in his neighborhood to begin working together. And so that was really inspiring story. Another inspiring story is in Bangladesh. We have an architect who at the age of twenty five began working with the local community to reconfigure old fishing boats in the floating schools because he realized that children in the neighborhood during the monsoon flooding season were often missing to a third of their classes each year. And so the DEA came to him about the notion of floating schools, and then he built a floating library. So there's so many stories that are really about people moving outside of the realm of their comfort beginning to work with people and working with people with diverse expertise. And so maybe some people are gonna say, well, I'm never really going to be able to tell a story. But maybe there's somebody that they know that can help them tell a story about an expertise. They have. I mean, really also think that part of the challenge of dealing with flooding is figuring out how we're gonna work together new ways and stories are just one way. But you know, there's so many different ways that people can come together. And so it's discouraging to think about the challenges we have in front of us, but it's also an opportunity to figure out how to work together. And this is sort of how I've been framing it in the classrooms is we have whole skill set that we need to develop about collaborative frameworks and how we can listen across differences how we don't have to be right about. Everything sometimes we just need to figure out a compromise. And get something done in a difficult moment. No, I agree completely bit. I wanna challenge you bit. Then on how do you capture? The impact of that. What are the metrics that are used because to get buying and support from political level or governance level or a funding level were often? Challenged say show me the evidence that that sort of innovation actually works. So what can you help us with in terms of methodologies at help capture that impact? And do you mean the impact can you reframe that Wilmer times, I understand the impact of storytelling the impact of collaborative frameworks or will both collaborative frameworks think people by large understand from intellectual point of view that to address the future and to for example, in the application of natural in nature base features as part of a flood management portfolio. Collaboration and integration is not necessarily challenged. But the innovative types of engagement that for example, the shoreline project illi- Strates being able to use that in in this type of integrated Claburn ration- in being able to demonstrate that that type of innovation communication engagement actually Mussi objective forward meant, how do you? How do you measure? Oh that capture it. I would say that often a story is the first step, and then apart of creative crack this is figuring out. What's the next step? And so we really have to think about I don't think story in and of itself is enough. I think we have to think about what comes after the story. How are we using that story to foster relationships? So for example, if I host a screening in a series at the versity, I will screen a few of these films. But then I'll invite other people on stage to talk about what they're doing locally. And maybe have a a moment in the audience where I asked people to turn to each other and share something that they're doing. There's a whole sense of people feeling moved by collective action. And a lot of times when you're at home, and you're listening to the weather report. And it's very frightening. You feel like you don't even wanna go outside. Let alone get involved in some activity that would help improve your community. And so the beautiful thing about films about being people into collective spaces. Is that you begin to feel like you're not alone. And so- film has that, you know, magic of kind of drawing out bringing us into these these open spaces and giving us an opportunity to sit next to somebody. We may know, we may not know and begin to think together out loud. And so I think, you know, certainly, the news is informative and helpful. But it's also finding the right spaces in venues where media can be used to instigate dialogue conversation connectivity. And then to your question had we prove that this is actually useful. I would say we have to do this to qualitative terms by talking to people to asking people. How did you get involved in being change maker in your society? How did you become inspired to do something rather than to opt out of community challenge set maybe around and so many of the profiles in the shoreline actually profile? How people feel like their lives were changed by getting involved. We have a beautiful portrait of a woman in India who was hit by Saddam and she decided to get trained in how to read the weather and she became a community leader should became the breadwinner for her family. So there were all these positive repercussions ranging from her self esteem to her salary of why getting involved in community can matter, and we can extrapolate this, you know, a young person in classroom food decides to lead a recycling campaign within goes and talks to local officials about flooding in planning it's all about having the confidence to feel like what you do can make a difference. Thank you. Wonderful in just a couple more questions here and more of a logistical question. If people want to learn more about the shoreline project, if you could just put a plug for I have shown that people can get links that way, but if you put a plug for it, and is there any sort of resource that you guys have developed if someone wants to do something like this on their own or even a smaller scale is that out there? A lot of my friends have been using the site in classrooms to get students thinking about how short films ranging from like two to four minutes can be powerful slows to communicate an issue bait care about so from podcast to short films people like the short films just to say like look how much can communicate in short form. The shoreline is an open online resource. If you go to the shoreline project org. It is what I like the call the storybook for the future. So there's forty three short films there soundscape. Is a database with action based activities, and there's even interactive map that looks at data sets on a range of Maine, growth, coverage and other things. So it's really a way of us beginning to to to think about what is the local in. How do we tell our stories in the context of a wider framework? So I encourage anyone to go and explore through the map or through the chapters that we've come up with and share it. Okay. So. Yeah. Please share if you have needle thoughts. I think he sort of summed up nicely. Short on project. But if you had any last thoughts before we wrap it up here the beauty of being documentary. Filmmaker is that you get to learn and I learned so much while making the shoreline one of the things I was really excited about in making the shoreline was learning about living shorelines, and this notion that there are we stirs in clams and wetlands and named groves and all these ecological resources that if we protect they can be protective of us, and I talked to an architect in Vancouver. Who said that an engineer had told him that it was it was actually quite easy to pick up and move an entire port that engineers knew how to do these kind of huge infrastructural changes. But he said the one thing engineer cannot do is restore an ECOSOC. He said, this is something we really have to understand if we want to move towards more sustainable future, and it really impacted me. Yeah. That's amazing in engineers are mazing and working together with engineers as an environmentalist is just so cool and so different. And that's a great observation. So the beauty of working on the shoreline is I got to interface with so many different people who are working in different capacities along the coast. And sometimes this was engineers sometimes it was teachers but having the opportunity to see how scientists sees the shoreline or how an engineer sees the shoreline or how artists shoreline or even a youth educator was such a gift. And I think it's win. We bring all of those things together. I remember thinking when I was working alongside of biologist. I said to myself, you know, they're really doing exactly what I do. Which is the art about survey Shen, the really looking at something. And finding a way to understand it differently. And I think really there's a beauty in and finding these ways to work together around things that we love like the coast. So thank you so much for coming on that was really helpful. And I hope my listeners are inspired to be a bit more visually creative in something that you're doing but thanks for coming on. I'll it's my total pleasure. Thank you for having me. Hey, doctors on talking with Katherine Sarah, young, Catherine is a Chinese Filipino artists designer and writer, she holds a master fine arts and interaction design from the school of visual arts in New York City as a Fulbright scholar and bachelor's degree in molecular biology and biotechnology from the university of Philippines. She investigates nature and the tensions between nature and technology. Welcome to the podcast Katherine how thanks for having me. Well, is a pleasure. And so I just want my listeners know where are you Skyping in from currently I'm in Manila, and I'll be in China and like a few weeks. So I have so like in here in the interim, I love when I have international guests, but sometimes creates a little bit of logistical planning. But things again for coming on your welcome. Okay. My first question, and we're gonna go back and forth between Anita myself. But could you I found this very interesting. Could you please elaborate by what you mean that you investigate nature and the tensions between nature and tech. Technology. I think when I mean, by of as human beings tend to control nature or seek to control it, usually using technology. And I think to the years as we've seen we tend to abuse quite a bit. And it's kind of reaping from of what he saw before Silvinite, Salem, investigating nature touch that tech. I'm thinking like how can be try to live a more sable lifestyle on how could be as people are currently held during all these climate impacts turn of adapt to a- planet where we could live in harmony with nature instead of against it that make sense yet it does. And I think it's it's an exciting area that you're occupying into I want to defer over right now because I think when the reasons that we have you on is that we connected with you. I at in Uganda last year at the CD. Eleven conference in in Anita could could use of provide that background question for Catherine. Yeah. Thanks, Catherine for joining us for this discussion as the mentioned we did me in Uganda at that CBA or community based out of tation conference. And I just was so impressed with your work and the display that you had that you were sharing with the conference goers on the work that you did with young people in youth and climate change. And how you use our in design as a way of connecting with young people. And so I've been fired a look at the role that are in design have with changing people's behavior changing their mindset, helping people to think about and envision a different kind of future for themselves. So I was hoping that you could tell us a little bit more about that that project that I connected us and your reflections on engaging youth on. Some of these really complex difficult situations. It's been a pretty long path to get to that point of meeting in Uganda. So I have a very eclectic background. So it's like art science design some really into doing enter this canary products. But I think when through the residencies I've done I've learned to use all of these Anna training for the sake of environmental and social issues so in twenty thirteen when but super typhoon hit southern Philippines. I wasn't Singapore on art clients residency in sustainability lab in Singapore. And that's my pundits contracts. So it's a pot form of my work for kinda change, our environmental futures. I was doing that in so many places around the world because kinda changes here, and it's affecting everyone. So a lot of institutions were interested in workout. Doing. So last year. I was I rented Than's with unpunished punisher, national, and they asked me to do these climate change and Titian artwork shops in several communities around these Asia. So Zuhdi struck by how the experiences of these kids shape their their lives. So these are kids as young as twelve who have experienced way more than I ever had. And I was the artist who was opposed to the all about climate change. But they had experienced way more of and I'm really into bringing art to everyone. And I thought it was really good to have their work the brought to a moral artistic venue, and the reason is usually artists Horlick privileged people. You know, you make a painting, and you hang in the museum. But this time I wanted to shook his their work and collaborate with them because I do feel they have a lot of perspectives about climate change since they have experienced a lot. Of Levi of the impacts of. And that's where we met, and you all right now, that's really interesting, Catherine, as you know, the this podcast is about flood and flood management and part of that is climate change where there's so many other issues involved in a want to jump to real practical point of view in an ask for your advice. What would you tell someone like me who works in environmental NGO, but I'm working on flooding, and I and I collaborate with engineers, and I collaborate with planners, and I collaborate with water managers how I bring our design as an engagement strategy into a flood management project. Like, none of us have this kind of artistic skill set that you do how do we go about bringing that perspective bringing that application for gauging people through that medium in into one. Of our flood management projects. I think art has lots to do with empathy. It's something I do think everyone has. So if you say that you don't have artistic skills would actually reject about and say, you are artist to Nita, and I do think it's something that everyone that can gauge. So usually ask with simple questions feel like one thing missing in the discussion about climate change out. We don't get to know what other people's experiences are. And because of lack of empathy, maybe when people are building things, they don't have the user in mind, so with art and design if he like what we can do is to re ask the people that you want to serve like, how do they see future? I think with art. You have a very visual way of seeing what people's perception of reality is what people's perception of the future is and of since you have a visual model in front of you. Then I think it makes it clearer for people which like where we add like. Unseen page are there incidents differently. Also, I think are very retouching people at the motion, all and human level. And this is something with a very serious and dry and accessible topic climate change flooding these topics that I think tend to scare a lot of people. But I think this is a very positive way of empowering people say no there are things we climate change is ready here. But there are ways where we could actually step up in power or cells. So that we won't be not creed or that not that much freight anymore because we can take control of our Ness knees. And this is something that's I think about especially when engaging with people who have had more climate impacts who have experienced more climate impacts. I have 'cause you have very like hard existence. It's very difficult to sort of see life far into the future. How better so I think with art and design it gets people's have smile a little bit and see how could look at our situation from a more macro versus them, Kevin has really great answering just occurred to me, I think the scientific process, and how scientists get grants, and such and you mentioned that you know, with art there's heart there, there's emotion. And I think a lot of scientists drilled into them that you should bring any of that. And you talk about the tensions between nature and technology and the tensions between art and science. I think you're trying to bridge those. But I mean, what practically can we do scientists get these grants can you build in as part of this grant? Okay. Five ten percent is the communication and art needs to be part of it. I mean, it seems like real drastic recommendations are going to be needed to get scientists. Really appreciate art as way to communicate what they're doing. I think 'cause I got my start in climate change arena by working in the lab with scientists as artists by the same time. I've. Trained as both artists and the scientists, I do think there's a lot of empathy of had to bring it on my parts in being able to speak the language of scientists and artists and the public. So all of that, the front languages you've had to have math learn, and I think it's because I think if you if you're in particular feel they're certain set of expectations of that, you know, people rent rants with would have for for you. Ashley hasn't artists. I do run a lot of grants awhile grants like every month. So I sort of know like what's the format they need by the same time. I think with art there's a little bit more for play. I it's been sent to me that it takes a special kind of artists be able to work in this type of space. I can't go in thinking. Okay. And can just their feelings. There has to be very very specific in concrete actions any to ask and because of bringing in. Allow like years of experience like a lot of a key. Studies have had before it makes it a lot easier here to get people to accept the need tuning art and design of the able to build like our futures collectively. Okay. I wanna go back to a point you made earlier about the you were working with the students on at a patient. And I'm just curious a lot of people don't even really understand. What adaptation is when it comes to climate change. How did you sort of you mentioned that they of got it, and they were dealing with in ways you didn't. But did you have to literally define what adaptation to climate change really means? I mean, how did you do that? So these are kids. I mean, they were children that were quite like the client communities, I've make we don't really mention like adaptation in Rick shops. I usually go in with a more like layman's terms of saying at Titian would say like, how do you see the future? What are the difficulties you think will happen like Dace? On your appears experience. So may have had kids who were affected by these on hurricanes. And so they weedy saw their houses flood of the houses like or the heads and things like this. So because of if you bring in very lame unsettled terms adaptation, I think is gonna be another low that climate change is very political term. I think things like adaptation all of these terms are going to be even more. Will be proceed more dry in the futures. I think he go in more human terms like what do you see when you see like a beach? Are you scared? And if you are and why I think those are the things on his artist, I want my listeners to go away with some very practical advice on the use of art until I have out of tation professionals who are working on plans, and Anita mentioned this green guide that that she's developed with WWF what can they literally do to integrate art into what they're doing? And I guess in a very practical manner. I think terms of be able to imagine of solutions that may not be there in very at other disciplines where the boundaries might be more. Seth I think our has a vantage the able to think outside the box because in art, there is no vox. So if you use Arkan design and integrate it in these initiatives, I think a lot of like nonprofit. Off asking for these things. I would say like look at a wide variety of media side. Don't just visual arts, we'd like olfactory art. So it's about like sense. We're looking at sense and what memories have of them? And that's a very atypical way of the able to think about on a change at Titian because for example, I would get people to create perfumes of things that they will lose because acclimatization whether the memories the may would the community to think about what is important to them, and you can take those and listen now and seal future community that's resilient enough to be able to preserve these memories. For instance. So practical advice just cast a very wide net. I think there is no medium about is useless. I think he will be able to find v each question will require like. Different solutions. And if you get like a variety artists are able to think about these things, very atypical ways. I think you'll probably be able to find a lot of eclectic variety of outcomes have two part question as a follow up to that. So with our flood grain guide where hoping that people using that will be inspired to envision a different future where natural in nature base features are part of Hort folio of flood management options in that is a little bit similar to climate change out of -cation where we want people to envision a different kind of future and move towards that future in a positive way. Someone doing what your experience tells you about how our can affect both behavior change in people in learning and people and then. The second part is since you're scientists as well as an artist. Can you say if you were about the science behind how art changes behavior change and learning? So for example, do we know in fact that are does these things and how well it does it is that captured using the scientific method if you will does that make sense. Yes. Well for the second question, there's a large Laudi work about clients like neuro aesthetic somethings. Like this with me. I'm not really interested into seeing whether artworks because I feel like from a human perspective. We know it knows I think ours has a lot to do the I speak a lot about how Arkansas change social norms because when I was younger that he thinks so much about art is only that was older when allies that there were so many art projects that reading enough to able to do something like this. And so in terms of like arch changing people's Mike. Minds. Do go about it from very first person perspective in the art was able to change my mind from certain things that the keeping my life's work to the environment. So I think they're of art be able to change social norms. I think it's because we can because of Arkansas I can actually think of you world's Hyun alternative norms. If you will that make people can people think they know can actually do things differently. I think that's one thing missing people who are like doing the nine to five daily grind 'cause they're on autopilot. And the kind of like take for granted like it's just going to this. But for art because it's very unexpected. Sometimes it can serve shock people to to make them think. Okay. There's so many different things in actually do. Thank campfire have one last question. I don't know I needed you have additional questions before kind of do this ramp questions. Now, I'm telling spire now going to move into art. I totally agree about anyone could be an artsy. Most of us. Don't even try though. I don't think we can all be great artist. But how often do we go to our class or anything? Okay. Catherine. This has been great. So do you have any sort of final reflections on the role of design art in in the use of calm into the, you know, using those in complex issues such as dressing floods and climate change out of tation, and then for artists and designers. We actually have a lot of the income of the able to propose very atypical and unusual things. And I think especially for artists the can go we have different media to work with for artists work, good, artistic helix. You're supposed to be unafraid to able to do things that no one else has done their lot as constricted in the straitjackets of like grants like for other fields Princeton's site would say that. It's it's good prizes to be able to work scientists because I do feel that it makes their work. More culturally adaptable to certain communities. Because artists can talk to people at the human level and for communities of male impact. I think they can look at are able to speak to them. Explain to them why you know, the sciences important to their lives, for example in how why science can eat important to their futures Wrentham's. I think there's a large gap. I see between science and the public. I think artists can to allot to be able to bridge that gap. Awesome. Awesome message. Thank you so much Katharine for coming on you've very inspirational. And I think hopefully people out there doing science learn to art more in the role of communicating that science and final thoughts, Anita. Now. This has been really inspirational for me as well. I don't consider myself a scientist, but thanks to this conversation. I might just think that both scientists and artists. Thank you, Catherine Cole here. Welcome. Thank you for having me as fun. That is rapid after's. Okay. So I wanna close at this episode by getting a back onto kind of do a summary of what we just heard. Hey, anita. So what did you think of our three guests? I really enjoyed talking with them and learning from them. And I think they have a lot to offer what we're trying to do with our flood management work. So that was really exciting for me. Okay. Did you learn anything particularly new from from any of these speakers? Well, I think we learned about how difficult it is to define what a community is. And I think those of us who work with communities, and particularly and non-government organizations we've gotten into a habit of just saying that community, and there is no such thing as that community. It can be so many different sectors and attributes that those of us who want. To work with the community. I think need to do a little bit more thinking around. How do you even define what a community is? Okay. So I used to work in a previous life as an adaptation practitioner in. I felt like there's very few opportunities when you think about the grants or the project money that you have to really build in the sort of creative. Science communications creative engagement in. How're you doing it? And how to my listeners out there that they would like to do something similar what be some practical ways for them to kind of move on these things. Well, I think in terms of doing more, I think we are doing it. And I think we're trying to be creative. And and the guest we had today are examples of that. And we're doing it. And I like this like this podcast, and you or working with educators and on how to use podcast in a classroom, for example. And so there are resources and experts out there and creative people out there to call upon and sometimes. It's just a matter of taking advantage of opportunities. Unforeseen opportunities that present themselves. So for example, I learned about Liz Miller in the work that she's doing with the shoreline project through a person I happen to meet at at a conference and Catherine talked about plan international NGO who contacted her to help them with engagement around community climate change at uptake action. And so I think it is happening. I just think that we who often are trained to think in our professional or sectoral boxes need to put more effort into stepping outside of those boxes and looking around at things that may be available to us that could be very helpful is I agree. And I applaud you guys at World Wildlife Fund that you kind of step outside the box in your you've worked with me several times using podcast. I not that. My listeners have in the Scillies podcast. But sometimes I think you kind of bake in your pro-choice, I'm going to do a report instead of the standard things that come with reporting out on these all these really important in centrally cool things but just communicating people to think going to develop position. So I encourage you to think about what our guests are doing and be a bit more creative in sharing this information because so much good work is really happening out there. And it just lands with a third. So hopefully, we can learn from them definitely not no, I'm learning from this process will build in this type of engagement into future work that I do, and I hope that that donors that are out there. Supporting this good work will also engage in the same way, you know, as an aside. I think about like I work with you. And I were with John Martin it WWF, and you guys have to basically become content. Producers you work with me on these episodes. And you're probably doing things you didn't think you would be doing or have done before. And hopefully, it's a bit fun. For you. You know, you're helping produce this podcast. So there's new things that you're doing definitely. And that's why I love what I do. And I just feel so fortunate that I have the job that I do because it just demands creativity. And unfortunate that the people are work with folks like, Sean get that. And so we explore in grow this type of thing together, not everything works, and that's part of learning process. But that's also what I feel is exciting about working in this thing called climate change out of tation. You just have to learn that, you know, it's it's not going to be the same as it was in the past. And so that keeps it very fun and interesting, of course, talk your joy to work with always. Excellent. Okay. Let's wrap this up by giving people a preview of the third episode. And it's not gonna be our return of the Jedi. There's not gonna be e walks in this episode three. So what can we expect an episode three? Well, I don't know we should play that down too much. We're an episode three. We're going to go to the US army corps of engineers and the work that they are doing to create guidelines on the use of natural nature base. Features for flood management. People might be saying, oh my goodness. Not another guideline. But this is different process involves people from all over the world looking at this issue in we were fortunate to be able to have conversations with a few of those and their partners. And I think you our listeners will learn a lot from that pesetas. Well, yeah, I got to go out to Santa Cruz, California. And have these conversations it was really cool, and I'm looking forward to sharing that. But thanks for coming on and Nita until the next episode. This is America Depp's. Thanks. Thanks for the work that you do. Okay. After that is a wrap thanks to a Nieta via Liz, Catherine three amazing experts doing incredibly important work. We need to bridge the gap between scientists and the general public through better communication, and these guys are on the frontlines of doing that. Please check out the work in the show notes episode three of this flooding series should be out early in the new year. Stay tuned for those upcoming episodes. If you want more information on guest or the green guide that was mentioned many times links in the show notes, some final housekeeping don't forget to join the Facebook page the Facebook community group, the group is private but search for America apps and asked to join and boom you're in its chance to hear some insider info on the podcasts, actually, some great conversations have come out of that group. Okay. Some quick shot out. Thanks hoga H T O for your Twitter love. Thanks, dale. Thanks, Jack, Morris and Australia. Thanks to Ella butter net. And thanks Chuck aboard for joining my advisory committee. Thanks to climate nixes for regular promoting the podcast. I know missing. Folks here. But thanks again to everyone contributes to what I'm doing here on that note. I love hearing from you. And with this new thing, I'm doing letters from doctors. It's a chance for you to ask them questions. Share what you're doing? Or if you have thoughts and ideas about the podcast seriously. It's a highlight of my week hearing from you. Sometimes it leads to really cool things. I'm in America adapts at dot com. Send me an Email. The website in America org. All this information is in my show notes, especially in to the Domi page. Okay. Adapters keep up the great work. I'll see you next time.

World Wildlife Fund Chicago Anita van Breda Canada Liz India Northwestern University America Doug Terry Tetum president Nita research scientist Santa Cruz professor Google Montreal
BONUS - Transitions (The Alien & The Robot)

The Liturgists

1:00:27 hr | 1 year ago

BONUS - Transitions (The Alien & The Robot)

"Two thousand thirteen extra terrestrial, Android, encountered, each other human village that time together time you stand strain fascinating primates dominate. Episode transition. Start with juice. And that's all you. What does that? Oh. I'm planning on crossbows episode onto the main feed big I forgot. Yeah. So we have this band called Gungor. And that's been part of our they make beautiful things. I'm not going to dignify it with a laugh. We've been. It's possible. Joe? Joke. It was the dumbest one that could have been made. I appreciate it. So yeah, we've been making music since well, it started as Michael Gungor integrity, signed artists entire a friend of guy wrote that with Israel Houghton his version of it was far more successful than my version of it. But. Then on we went to the Michael Gungor band. And then we went to Gungor about two thousand nine. And. It's been arrived quite a wild ride. And we decided this week Monday. Time to put it to bed. Time to let her go peacefully into the night. But how can you do that? When you have a tore coming. Well, it's going to be the farewell tour. It's going to be the farewell tour. It's I'm going to admit, it's it's a little sad. And it's a little exciting. Yeah. It's kind of. Not just a little. It is sad. And it is exciting. The reason the reason for it is now I'm realizing how many times we've cried wolf on this podcast, and I'm not actually crying wolf. We've always like emitted. We're crying. Yeah. Right away. I'm not. We. Have realized over the last several years that. Everything that you experience in life comes through these stories that you that you believe and art as certainly no different. I mean, if you think about. If somebody told you that there's a new creed record Nickelback record coming out. That probably that they say it was amazing unless you're unless you're already Nickelback fan, you're probably not going to check it out. Why? Because you already have that story. Pretty firmly established in your head about what it is. And what we've seen with music that we released for the past several records. Due to. The stories that we started the music with and all the interpretation going through those lenses is that what we what we think we're saying what we think we're making with music. Is often it's not perceived that way it's perceived through an entirely different lens than where we're coming from right now. And that's. I think that doesn't only impact the listener. I actually think that unconsciously impacts how we create as well, I think that we know that there's a lot of people that are interpreting whatever Gungor is going to say as a brand through a certain story through a certain lens and. So the nal us knowing that it's like it's like, I know if I'm speaking to a Spanish speaking person. And you have to kind of adjust. How you're saying what you're saying different language. That's not the greatest analogy. But. Hopefully, get the point what we're saying is being impacted by what we think it's going to be perceived as by by the stories that we think are out there. So that's just made making music difficult with the algorithms and the all the Google search results really being quite specific. And any new music we put out there's just no way you're gonna hear it like if you click Gungor on Spotify. You're not gonna hear it this new music until like thirty songs down. Maybe not that far, but tens down. Because I don't know how it's possible for us to beat the of beautiful things. It has so many listeners still. And it's not that we despise that old stuff. That's part of the issue too. We don't we actually have. Grown to love the journey that we've come from. And the whole thing that has happened. But it's left Gungor as a brand feeling a little bit more like a. Difficulty to deal to try to navigate around. Then. Then a tool to help us make the art that is really true to where we're at right now. So. We're going to let it go. And it was also kind of noticing that this tour is called the end of the world tour. The last song that we recorded on Ganga record was death. It was I also realized it was the sixth album that we made six days take a rest death. It just it was all too much. I was like oh my God. This is meant to be. It's the end. Poetically appropriate. And the last show of the tour is at home in L A, which at the El Rey theatre, which is my favorite good. That's a good show. It's where we've done my favorite Gungor shows of all time at the theater, the El Rey theatre was the first place ever in my life. People have chanted science, Mike when I was on tour with you. And we did that weird thing where I gave like little talks concerts, very weird. But when I walked out people started chanting science, Mike before I said anything. That's good memories in that place. Which is also weird because maybe some folks here don't know since its communities larger. I have not been around. In fact, most people haven't been around almost everyone hasn't been around for the entire arc of this journey. This started as your attempt to d- Christian is. Yes. That's what the literature is laws spin off brand. Yes. For the Christians to go to. It didn't work out. We've got all these conservative Christians hanging around our Facebook page. Maybe they'll we can push them over to the litter gist. But that that is taught me a lot about like what you think you're doing. What you what you put as your language as what you want to do out in the world is not nearly as important as what you actually believe in who you actually are in the world. So we started the litter just thinking this is. I mean, generally Christian work for Christians when we started it was we were both of us still liked a lot of the thoughts from other traditions. But yes, an we said we want. Worship resources for atheists. Yeah. So it was like, yes. Because we kind of worry. The real. Interesting focus starting the work. We spoke very Christian. We did. I mean, we language. We were intentionally very Christian. Thinking that that would be a good home for to steer all all the Christians that were coming at Gungor too. But that's not how turned out. So. Yeah transition. I mean, we're still going to make music. I think. We still plant. We have a bunch of music recorded on this computer recording into now. But for years, we've we've wondered like should we have changed our name at mountain because I really was a totally new chapter when I look at like who we were when we started Gungor, it really is just an entirely different thing. It'd be like me releasing the litter just podcast as a bible study resource at my Baptist church in Tallahassee. Just keep rolling with it. Weren't everybody? I got an associate lesson here. You can download it at the litter just dot com. That's a new series called Buddhist into series. Yeah. So we have. Feelings about it. But that feels like the right thing. But I do hope a lot of you come out and see us then for the last time to laugh to younger to some of these songs were the last time. I mean that hasn't really struck me yet. I don't think. Well, now that I've in trauma therapy. And friends with Hillary McBride. I just spend all my time listening to my body. And when I thought about that last chance to hear these songs. I could feel the sadness in my body. A heaviness in my stomach, a heaviness, my chest heaviness in my eyes. So there, you know, like any transition there's. There's grief involved and grief for me. I mean, you know, we've talked about this off the air. And I think probably mission on the Imus Gungor superfan. But I'm a really like I am mountain and later Gungor fan. I'm know like we became friends, then I went back and listen to your earlier stuff. And I was like, this is great music. But for how I see the world. Clearly, I am mountain and beyond is more compatible with like how I understand the world. But those are like records, I listened to a lot. And I do I do look forward. To going to your shows weird. That sounds especially if I'm not involved in and. Yeah. I'll be very excited and pretty sad at the L Ray. Yeah. I plan on. But I also already making you making far weirder ship now with no. Rails on whatsoever. Man, isn't it? It's just like. It's hard to like things that you love, and we really do love the work that has come out of it and the journey that we've experienced through it. And. It just feels like sorry for the cheesy Christian. Language here. But new wine skins time. That's can't I why do I gotta be so jaded to say cheesy Christian Jesus thing to say, that's a nice. It's a nice analogy an old old wine skins new skins. Sometimes you just got to embrace the. Impermanent s- everything. And. This one this one was a lot of our identity. A lot of my. Sense of value and worse in the world came from what we're doing with Gungor to let that go. It's a big deal. I feel no pressure. But I'm trying to invite as many important people that have been part of conger to raise possible. I'm glad you said you're coming. If you want to. I don't know what it would be anything on the stage with us for a minute or something. I I want in want to involve in that show as many, I I could lead a collective cry. I just walk out there to say by Gungor and just cry and say this needs to cry together. What make the most riveting show in the world. Just like. It's like. And now we ping with science. Yeah. We'll think about what whatever I can do to support. Thank you just wanna see the damn show. Yeah. It's one of those weird. It's a weird feeling. David going to be thumping that base. Yep. But for L Rahaman got I haven't told John Joseph yet. But hopefully, he'll be there as level. I love of people and bass players. But you're sexually. But I'm yeah. I'm sexually musically. Aroused by John Joseph. Yeah. John Joseph is nasty. That's a big one. Yeah. Had other things talk about on the upslope transition where else are we going in permanence? I I can't I can't move on. Really? I mean, I'll be I'll be honest with you. Sorry. Oh, you didn't. Did you hear that? Oh, my phone ring in my headphones. It was quite loud because he came through my computer. I didn't have the doughnut sterile. My computer. What was I saying? What were you saying? I was saying it's not so easy for me to move on. Oh, I was. Yeah. I was telling Tom are booking guy. This news yesterday. And telling them and here, and then I was starting to remember some of the songs that I have in the computer that was like. Like that could work well as Gungor song, and I get like last couple of days. I should really do this. The more that I lean into it. I mean, it just really does feel right. And if you're hearing this audio that means the trigger has been pulled. It literally isn't too late until the episode gets. I guess that's true. Yeah. I mean, talk me off the leads now, Mike if you want to this is your last chance. I mean, it makes the most sense, and there's a difference between retiring Gungor as a brand and a project, and you or Lisa retiring from using altogether. If it was the latter. Yes, I would be. Yeah. I think very persuasive. Why that was? But on the brand that actually I do think it like. You're not apple going for making computers to making foams. Your apple going for making computers to making cheese. Like, it just doesn't wait. What? Yeah. This is this doesn't make any sense. Yeah. I think I think you do the most honor to the Gungor catalog by setting it out as a completed. Body of work that does speak to transition. But let's let your earlier self be your earlier stuff. And let's you're newer work. Escape it's shadow slash gravity. Well. I mean, I I think the World Wildlife is the best thing ever done. Thank you. And. The algorithm were just like everybody don't look at this the whole this. Here's a beautiful things. And I think that would have launched under a distinct identity. I think it would have done a lot better. The other especially because if someone does find us on Spotify from the one wildlife trilogy the next on they here is much more likely to be an old worship. Yeah. Polls them out of the head space. Yeah early. Yeah. Exactly. Now, there's occurred to me in this moment. Yeah. If you just look up song. Yeah. Just like literally somebody's a good thing about one song wonder. Yeah. Wow. And then picking nation. Yeah. One other strange aspect about the course of evolution in my volition. My spiritual journey is to use that apple and cheese metaphor. It's almost like we went from making computers to making cheese. And then now I'm trying to make like artificially intelligent cheese. I like I'm back to spirituality. In more. Like, I really am interested in. Some of the some of the same idea that we started with the communal spiritual expression the connection. It's not just to me. I don't just wanna make music that is like showcasing. My ego as a cool ego. I'm not cool enough. I've found that I make a better. Transparent light for. Broadcasting picture of the world of reality. Something else other than my own ego as the object. So a lot of that has been coming back in values. But it certainly can't be what it used to be. It's it's not like we're going to go back to the Christian music circuit and be playing all the worship festivals. So. It would almost to change again to to become more spiritual overtly or whatever. At this point. It just feels like it's been so much back and forth. So much is this what is this? And finally, there's some people that like, okay, fine cheese. Apple cheese. I like apple cheese. And then I'm like, yeah. Have you seen the keyboard? So they've just a fresh slate would be like even just for me because I don't know how much of me saying that even thinking about in those categories is a result of me unconsciously trying to please as many of the Gungor fans as possible. I don't know. It's hard for me to parcel, those feelings out. Because it strange thing that happens after you sing the same songs for a decade Gungor is not just about us anymore. Because it's these songs the reason we still seeing beautiful things that shows because it's not our song anymore. It's like Lisa and my saw it's become the we hear stories every time of what that song has been in people's lives. And they've as they've lost loved ones they've gone through divorces. They've all gone through all sorts of pain. They've had this experience where music has been a big part of their life journey. And so they came to the show because of that, and we're just gonna like not sing it. So it's part of the weed that has gathered around a gun show. So I love that. We it's just to come diluted to be able to it's hard to know what to make for that brand though. So a clean slate. Creatively? Artistically feels like the best move both creatively. Hopefully, biz hopefully, eventually, marketing wise, where we can have a better shot of having new material be the thing that people here when they go to our I mean beyond made a lot of great stuff. With Destiny's Child. Yeah. When they were called. Yeah. I'm not I'm a I'm a post Destiny's Child. Be unsafe. Yeah. You know what I mean? But if she just stayed with that brand what she's done now would be couldn't could it be. And I also think like. Kind of the back to spirituality notion. The most interesting conversations in the world. About spirituality right now are happening in music. But none of it is laid labeled spiritual. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Like, I can think of so many records recently just been like. Wow. Yeah. Like that informs, my theology. But they're not by. Those artists don't label themselves instead of any spiritual tradition, and they didn't release those records. Yeah. I think. Escape leading the spirituality conversation escaped the shackles of sub-genre. Yes. As allowing more people to reflect on what spirituality. Yes, yes. I'm super interested in that. Amen. Hey, man. And amen. What about you? How are you transitioning in life? Well, one of the ways this is the rare alien the robot where I have an outline so boy, so I'm going to. Question. I usually pretty anti outline for the show. We've got a lot of talk about this week. So one of the ways I'm transitioning. Is trying to figure out how to transition the litter away from collaboration of two loners that frustrates all their friends. Into a proper media organization. We took a baby step that way in inviting you all to apply. For an associate producer position with the liturgies. And I I just wanted to give an update there because I've gotten concerned emails and questions from people who have applied, and I responded to none of those. But. But. So I've seen them. So don't worry. If you're like, oh my gosh. Did I not get it? We have interviewed zero people for the position of associate producer. If you like, oh, no. I didn't make it. That's not true. No one made it we can't even figure out how to interview every. I'm just being real. We don't even know how to interview we actually thought about inviting like three to five of our earliest kind of favorite candidates to help us interview. Everybody and tell us how to interview you in particular and tell us how we should structure your job. That's a real conversation. We have. The good news is. We've gotten a friend of the literature smart gassed reach out who has a lot of experience in the media world who has offered to just help us figure this stuff out. So the bad news is we are not immediately interviewing people for the associate producer position because we got to figure out how to do that. The good news is if you're sending your application, you're still in the running to be produce on the litter. Just in the litter. There was some amazing people really amazing. That's really really mazing. We'll say I'm probably going to take the listing off the website. Yeah. We're gonna close the entries because if we just keep letting all these applications come in literally every day than we will never ever ever interviewed people. Because did I mention come in every single day seven days a week because they do I guess there's a lot of listeners on the podcast. I don't know. Like, it's still really important because we have huge plans for season five talked to you about. But that is a point of transition that we aren't managing super. Well. Yeah. We are making good strides to figure out how to actually we are. In fact, after this podcast. We're having a meeting with a smart person. Yeah. Tell us look at that. So I just wanna say. Don't hear this that this is the producer candidate. Physician is paused or cancelled it's not we literally just don't even out. We don't even know like when you start you're supposed to get like an employee handbook. Or guidelines? We don't have an HR person. We don't. By backyard, legally, hire you what is what is it entailed than that? We don't know. Do we have to do the verification system? I don't know. You see it? I mean, there are some serious fundamental problems with the organization in regards to hiring that we don't have worked out there. Not unsolvable problems. Yeah. And we're moving towards solving them. We're moving towards them. But he's gone torn. I'm writing a book. So that that's a that's a transition. You see I wanted to say this though. Yeah, they deserve today deserve to know. I haven't said anything previously because I was in barest because in theory, I have management experience, and theory, I have a degree in organizational leadership. On paper. We're the right do people to figure this out. But I was like I'll replay the process of my mind, cause he's to hire people all the time step one, call Sheila in human resources. Oh, we don't have a she led him in resources. What do I do? Now. If you're listening sorry for mentioning good. I. Although I really do miss you, especially right now. Yeah. So that's transition to good one. I've got three play one is Facebook Facebook is trash is that what it is. Facebook is tries that the third thing on your outline. Yes. The third thing. Turn this computer with the print was too small. Like, look even says, but it was like, oh that's tiny. That's a really tight. Facebook is trash. In case, you don't follow the drama around social media. You may be aware that world governments are investigating Facebook for. Discouraging the awful activity. You may be aware that journalists around the world have uncovered nefarious and awful activities by Mark Zuckerberg, Facebook's founder and see like what? Like early and Facebook's history using Facebook as vindictive tool to get back on other people hiring private investigators to look into dig up dirt on competitors and former employees, it's real creepy. Awful. Thanks, most recently at turns out that Facebook started something called Facebook research and targeted at teenagers. People under the age of eighteen and offer them twenty dollars a month to participate in Facebook research. All you had to do was install a developer certificate on your iphone, which if you don't know developer certificates are don't worry about it. It's a way for companies to use I phones and run their own custom software. That's what it's meant for. But Facebook use that to bypass the very stringent privacy safeguards sore. Sore and analyze one hundred percent of the traffic to the internet and to the cell phone network coming from that teenager's iphone as well as every single thing on that I phone and maybe one of the most flagrant disregard for human privacy ever. This is a big deal does a huge deal this broke. I don't remember who broke the story. I spread quickly across the say everything on that iphone lit really their photos anything they want. If you've got developer certificate on the device, you can grab anything. So that that means there's a person going to that teenagers phone and somehow snooping around. How does it? I don't have to machine polls everything everything anything they want. But we don't know the developer certificate because I used to have these in my corporate world, it's for a device a corporation owns. That's why you're allowed to do anything you want. Because it's like if you if you get a company foam from a company you worked for they own it. They've got a right to everything on it. And they should if they're foam. Wow. But the enterprise development guidelines, specifically say you can't use that for anything other than your phone or employees who opt into your company's program and Facebook use that with teenagers that don't work for Facebook. Right. So so they pay them. So they could be part of the company doesn't work done a hold up. But that's what they were trying to they're trying to do. And last night, the nerd internet went crazy absolutely crazy, including I saw a lot of prominent nerds delay. Leading their Facebook account last night. And then this morning, apple revoked Facebook's enterprise developer certificate, which is a huge deal. It means a Facebook all their custom apps, they use for their employees. Stop working this morning. So Facebook that company is in chaos today. But you know, and a lot of nerds like, I guess it takes a mega corporation push back on a mega or whatever users clamor Facebook doesn't give a shit, but Apple's big enough to shove Facebook around basically. And that's all Facebook zap, stop working, and it can also affect their ability to test upcoming versions of the Facebook app and the Instagram at at scale. So this is a this is more than a slap on the wrist that apple has given Facebook. But the thing is, you know, we've we've did a social media episode on the podcast. I think didn't we do social media. Yeah. Yeah. So I probably have talked about some of this. But I have huge concerns over the role multinational corporations plan social media, which is sad because actually love social media like the ability to connect people to -bility to get educated from multiple perspectives. The ability to engage in organize advocacy for public good social media has a lot of really promising aspects. But then mega corporations are bubbly traded make shitty because they monetize your activity and your personal data. And they changed their algorithms constantly to try to get you compulsively addicted basically to the platform, so that you can't find a healthy role for Facebook or Instagram or Twitter or any major social networking platform in your life. Do you think they really use those words like in their meetings? Can we get people at dictated? Now, they say game of gamification came. That's the lingo in that world game. Games are awarding fun rewards when you do things. So, but yeah, absolutely. I mean they've they've hired. Behaviorist behavioral neuroscientist at these companies to maximize engagement you all can't see the air quotes. Basically make this stuff as habit forming as possible. Which they do for their shareholders. They make more money. The more you use social media. I don't want social media that preys on my personal data. I don't want social media that creates compulsive behavior patterns, but there's been no alternative, and like one of the things that depresses me the most hashtag black lives matter and hashtag me to these incredibly culture shaping movements. Started by. Women of color, and and trans women. End up increasing the market value and capital of Silicon Valley companies run by kind of antisocial white dudes. So that like really doesn't just upset me. It offends me. But that's the way like social media is structured out. What was originally called web two point? Oh has become this incredible consolidation of media power on the internet, which was originally about destroying consolidated media power. That's how the internet one started. So I've been so fed up, and I've been thinking about how to delete my Facebook and Twitter accounts for how long have been granted. It's been a while. It's been a while. But there's been no alternative. And tell now. You can go to mastodon. L, but we can talk about I just want to I want to. Like that. All sounds various shady and we've talked about this before. And I remember. Knowing more about why it's various. But. Privacy. Why what's the value of privacy for you? It seems to be a very high price value for you. It's a it's a big value for me. Right. Awry. It's disturbing when algorithms can learn things about you that you don't disclose publicly for good reasons. T humanizing kind of not just dehumanizing can have serious life consequences. Okay. Can you give me example? If you are an evangelical mega church pastors questioning their sexuality, Google, search history can destroy your life. Whereas if you're allowed to go through your process. Yeah, you can make a transition that protects you, but what is the fear? So Facebook knows that pastor John straight guy is not straight. What is Facebook has an API bug, which they have all the time that let's applications look up people's user data. And then someone else builds them formation outside of Facebook and discloses. Okay. That's not hypothetical instance. Yeah. That stuff has happened. Yeah. That's happened. Frequently okay. I just think it's an intrinsic. Right. We have I think there's a reason in America that unreasonable. Search and seize your is a constitutional protection. We should have a right. An expectation to personal privacy. You know? If someone could have figured out I was an atheist and those years when I was pretending to be baptised ruins your family. I could have killed myself. Yeah. Yeah. Like the consequences are severe. So the flagrant and casual disregard that Facebook Inc and Twitter and indeed in my opinion, Google have for peoples privacy is deeply concerning to me. The problem is Facebook has so many users. It's the only place you can connect with almost every single person in the developed world. Twitter's got a lot going for it in terms of of culture. Some of the most interesting voices in the world on Twitter. Instagram. You know is a great place share share photo content view photo content and then Google, unfortunately, everything Google does their decent to great at Google. Searches is great g mail is is is really solid Email. Even though it's literally mining your personal Email anonymous is it not super well. And then using the sell advertising to you. It is a free way to have a fast Email account. But when we're not when advertisers are the ones paying for everything the products are built to the needs of advertisers. And so you are the product being sold to an advertiser by Facebook. And not just I guess I worked in the advertising business to all feel comfortable with being a product that advertising companies consume. You'd be surprised even good people. What they'll do when they have two months to hit certain numbers or they or people on their team lose their job. If the entire Wall Street incentive structure is is there not a way. I'm not saying this to I'm not saying this to justify any of the corporate behaviors. But to. This is happening. I do you see a way that it really will stop happening. That'd be first question and second second question would be how can individuals that have privacy concerns up their privacy security game as far as like when you do private web browsing or or are there certain things you can do to like cut off. Google and Facebook from knowing what you're doing. It's really hard. Because even if you delete your all your Google accounts and all your Facebook accounts and stop using chrome. So many websites use Google lyrics, and so many websites have Facebook tracking pixels in there's still going to get something. So you've got us a lot of script blockers some people go as far as setting up their router in their home or even the networking stock on their computer from blocking all the IP addresses of all Facebook and Google servers. Wow. You block all of Google's a lot of websites don't function really if you block all of Amazon's most of the internet doesn't function so many websites Amazon. So that's tough. So I I'm gonna spend after my book gets done the recipe. Twenty nineteen. I'm going to go on a personal quest to d- multi nationalize multinational corporation is my digital presence online. So I'm leaving everything. Google really, I'm leaving everything. Facebook Twitter, Email everything Email everything I'll be migrating the litter just dot com to a better service than Google apps, which I'll do in a way that doesn't disrupt the organization at all that is one thing. That's actually my core. Competency. But yeah, I'll be I'll be and as I do that. I'll be letting people know how I did it as they could as well. But it's I mean, it'd be more than it'd be more than one episode later just podcast about everything you have to do. So. Do you do that? Do you do that? As prince maybe there's no difference for you do that as principal. Or as the you actually think. That culture can change the trajectory of where we're headed with. I think culture and China's director of where we're headed culture got us to where we are. And although L of Facebook has certainly some really powerful incentive structures and barriers that keeps it in such a dominant position. I do not think they are in any way and surmountable. We have four now of free and open internet, which is what allowed Facebook to rise. And I also believe can cause Facebook to fall. Rock and roll. That's the problem with us. Like, here's why we're terrible business. You've got to punk rock idealists who are officers of a corporation. Our business partners. Like, it would help the business. If you guys posted more to social media, and I'm like, actually, I think my next year project is to destroy social media. Because I don't want to be a cog in the machine exploiting listeners, man. Like, I fought the I've fought the church behalf of these people. I'm going to five Facebook on their behalf as well. God, dammit, that's lying down. And I I started a Facebook third on my personal page about how Facebook is terrible and people like what are you doing? And we'll talk about a minute. What my first step? But then someone else's like, we'll all my friends are here. And I was like, well, I'm lucky that I can just try a thing and a few thousand people. Yeah. But that's what it takes. If nobody will ever be the first to kind of put their neck out. You know, I I was texting Vishnu. Last night as that. I think over time. Facebook is more eggs attention threat to culture than Donald Trump. That was quite a quite a text toget- believe it. So massive on tell me about mass because I tried to sign up. I couldn't even in sign into the thing. You have an account. We did your talked about very often, especially your silence, non non posting. No picture. So I think I think what happened is I signed up for the count. And then I took a break for whatever reason I interested, and then when I went back, and so I had to download some other thing. To the good news is I know the admin of our mastodons, so we can get you know, problem. But then I went back to the sign in page. Just didn't make any sense. Let's talk about myself. I get to your account in particular. Mastodon is a a mastodon is and animal. Predecessor to the mammoths. Right. This is specific animal. Why do they name a social network platform mastodon because like many things in the open source world? It's very wims ical, and it started making fun of Twitter which on mass Don often called hate bird or the hate birds. Yeah. So instead of a tweet they wanted to be able to make toot t o t he told me that when we first started out. Spic Barend off too. I want to tell anybody I've been tooting. Yeah. But here's the only thing I'll say there was a time when posting wall and tweeting were equally like what I can't take seriously. Yeah. Like these metaphors have become so entrance so quickly. But they're not very old. And I remember when they were ridiculous. So anyway, so tooting doesn't feel weird. Do you? Now at this point does not. That's about three days of like, are you kidding me? And then it's just like tweeting. Did you see? So and so's toot. Right. Oh. It is. Second someone named Jenny just joined the Shirley. That's not my wife. I don't know. What maybe we'll say the Honey badger may have joined mastodon while we're sitting here. So it started as a joke around tooting, and then became a social networking platform. But what's different about mastodon, Twitter or Facebook is it is not controlled by multinational corporation and cannot be because it's at attempt to take a web to idea web Dupatta, which is social media and put it back in a web, one dot O framework. And I know that's confusing. If you're not a nerd, it means massive on is built around a bunch of servers controlled by different people talking to each other. And you're like that doesn't make any sense. That's how Email works. So if you have an Email address, you've got a name an at sign and then at domain. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And all different Email domains can talk to each other. It doesn't matter. What domain you're on? But no company controls Email, just like, no company control. Mastodon? So what we've done is set up a litter gist mastodon server that can talk to every other Masjid on server in the world. So we've got it right around a thousand litter just on there right now in a community that has over two million people so massive nods, not as small as as people might think. Now, what mastodon today is mostly made up of people who felt marginalized on mainstream social media. So that means there's a lot of disabled people on a massive on. That means there's a lot of queer and trans people on mastodon these communities that flocked there for safety and mastodons architecture is designed so the kind of harassment that happens on Twitter and Facebook is a lot harder to do. Well, for example, you can't search across mastodon. Right. So if you're a white supremacist. Yeah, you can search for certain, hats, hashtags and just harasses. Maybe what when you search? Hashtags on mastodon. You'll only get results for people on your server or accounts connected to your server. Wow. So Masset on is structurally designed to make it impossible to become a media figure that dominates the platform and the way that happens on Facebook and Twitter interesting. So even though I am the most followed person on the litter GIS massive on server and one of the more followed people now. Say probably top five percent of all masses on users. I can't say something that suddenly spreads all the way across master on more than I could write an Email that spread all the way across Email. Wow. It's designed to to make everybody want a level playing field and the U. I is made in such a way that there's no incentive to make something. Viral doesn't really display how many likes or boost the bass version of a re tweet you have the focus is on conversation and communal engagement not on popularity. Fine. Which means what's happening on our Maso is is really subsidy of conversations that are weighty without being hostile. Everyone's really supportive of each other. But we're having conversations like capitalism vs socialism. We're having conversations about like how to be a youth pastor during deconstruction people have questions about sex and sexuality, you know. There's like it's not a superficial conversation. But it's good natured in a way that you would expect people. To be when they all listen to podcasts together. So there's a lot of other features to these have these things go content warnings. See if you're going to post something you think could be triggering or upsetting to someone else. You can hide it behind a content warning. And then people can choose whether they want to look at it or not. So that's all good. I think the most exciting thing is because we have so few people you can get a really great username a lot of people's mastodon handles are their first names. So I'm just at Mike on our instance. Wow. And you're just Vishnu. Now, if you wanted to wanted to reach you who isn't on the literature server they'd had to say at Mike at social the litter dot com, which is a little weird at first. But you've done it before it's an Email address with an at sign in front of it. It's L massillon handles work. So my goal is to start investing mastodons. My first effort to see if this is plausible, and I will say we've got a lot of great social media stuff out there. We've got a slack group. We tried by networks. There's a lot of private Facebook groups are official pages of anything we've ever done. I've enjoyed this the most because the slack group a lot of people on the slack group. And I mean, a lot of people say, I just don't understand this. Yeah. If you've used Twitter, you can get your head around mastodon pretty quickly. And because of that it it it's more lively and more engaging. Like, I'm sitting here watching our server time line, and there's enough people on it now that it's always kind of moving really, but it's not moving so fast that you feel like you're missing something. And because it's a chronological presentation it only shows posts in the order. They were created there's no algorithm. Trying to get you compulsively engaged the platform tend to kind of go on catch up with what happened. And then forget about it for hours because there's not going to be some juicy thing. You miss if you don't get back on. So I would call it like not only. Does it undermined multinational corporate control of social media. It also starts to reheat humanize social media, which is probably my favorite thing about. That's cool. I like made me go back to the conversation. We talked about how even unconsciously. Kind of knowing what the biggest part of the Gungor audience listening audience is going to like unconsciously impacts. How I feel about the work that I would put out on the brand. And I've noticed that on Twitter as well. I kind of have an instinct for what my following is going to like based on the number of likes. They sent a number of retreats like kind of sometimes, I know here's this is kind of a tweet that people would like to hear. And there's like you're rewarded with the hearts with the retreat signs, and and. I think that impacts how everybody tweets so it's not have that as part of the architecture. It's a constantly clean slate for everybody to be able to just be more themselves. That's what it sounds like when I've had post takeoff on mastodon. I haven't even known interesting until I start getting quite a few replies. But even then it's not compared to even a mild tweet on Twitter. Yeah. It's so laid back so easy. So what I'm finding is. And I have incredible anxiety with social media these days, I don't feel anxious at all when I use mastodon at all I feel completely calm. So I feel like excited and open about engaging with people in a way. I don't even with people who are literally listeners on Facebook or Twitter because the cultural assumptions are different. So if you're interested in joining us on mastodon, you just go to social the litter dot com sign ups are easy and free. And if you have any questions just send a toot at. It's tough just make post, and I think you'll find the community is too quick and supportive. That'll that'll have to be adjusted to. I literally don't even notice it now. How often does it like when you're on there? It says literally every time you try to create a post you press a button, it's blue that says. Literally every talk. I guess it does help you. Take your thoughts less seriously. Yeah. You'll you'll the communities different like at our people. That's the other cool thing. Okay. I've really got to tell you this. We get on mastodon. Meaning we the liturgies at it. Once we got about three hundred users. We were talking so much you can track. Trending topics across the entire mastodon web called the Federer's and started aching will federation universe. But yes, it's all very nerd. We started making hashtags trend in one of them was hashtag illiterates. So literatures is trending on all of mastodon. She's pretty wild. If you think about and. People started being like what the what the fuck is the litter liturgies like nobody knew this person says. I was getting ready to block an instance because it looked like it's religious. And this person is on an instance that explicitly for queer and trans people. And I was getting ready to, but then I did a little digging and saw that these people are explicitly anti-homophobia, anti racism, anti white supremacy dead at right now, we're like and Doug ad and looked and it's a looks like a really healthy community. And so I'm trying to figure out like how is there a religious community? That's healthy. Like, it's making me reconsider. What I think about spirituality and religion. And I just don't think there's the space. In the capitalist exploitive structure of Facebook or Twitter to create that kind of a nuanced redefining shift in someone's thinking, just by being present kind and open. Well, you're good at sales, Mike. Only when I really believe it. That's my fatal flaws of marketing person. I gotta believe it. I'm gonna have to go like fine my password. Now, I can't even log in here. It's not I know the admin all right? I mean, you have a physical server with. Oh, yeah. Hey, your house. No, no. No, no. I used a hosted server hosting service. Located in France interesting. Yeah. I don't trust the United States fair enough. Whereas you. You really you chose not to be in the US. That's correct. One of those e u privacy controls. For the feds to make our quest to get on our data. It will be nice to have my own log ins because I can't log into our patriotic count. Because. Mr privacy. I get you. He's got a secret room that I have to go into that has a secure server. Log in. In you logged in from an IP six device. For macedonia. Yeah. That doesn't seem very private. I p six addresses are not not real traceable. Okay. All right. Well, everybody's changing everybody's dying. Everything's happening.

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January 10, 2020: Democratic hopefuls face big debate deadline

5 Things

07:06 min | 10 months ago

January 10, 2020: Democratic hopefuls face big debate deadline

"Five things is brought to you by the real real. The leading reseller of authenticated luxury consignment by in store on the APP or at the real real dot com and received twenty percent off select items with Promo code real stay tuned after the episode to learn more good morning. I'm Taylor Wilson and this is five things you need to know Friday the tenth of January Twenty Twenty a reminder you can follow us at USA. I say today podcast on twitter for all things. Five things plus other great. USA Today audio content that's at USA Today. PODCAST now onto the show to get you started. Democratic presidential candidates have until the end of Friday to meet requirements. For next week's debate. Six qualified lied so far. Joe Biden. Beauty Judge Amy Klobuchar Bernie Sanders Elizabeth. Warren and Tom. Steyer those on the outside as a Friday morning include Michael Bloomberg Bloomberg Cory Booker and Andrew. Yang to qualify. Candidates must have received five percent or more support than at least four different polls or seven percent or more in two to single state polls. They also must have received donations from at least two hundred twenty five thousand total donors and at least one thousand donors in at least twenty states. Eight the debate is set for Tuesday at Drake University in Des Moines. CNN is hosting along with the Des Moines Register part of the USA Today network. Friday's is weather won't help. Put a stop to devastating bushfires in Australia temperatures are expected to spike in Victoria where the Bureau of Meteorology has issued an extreme stream fire danger forecast and in neighboring New South Wales the rural fire service warned residents in several coastal towns. That winds are likely to once again again. Push fires toward those areas. Fires have been ongoing around the country. Since September leaving widespread destruction including at least twenty-five debts the World Wildlife Fund in Australia estimates that a shocking one billion animals may have been killed directly or indirectly due to fires. Many celebrities are joining efforts to help the country. Ellen Degeneres announced on her show that she created a gofundme campaign. We're setting up. Go Fund me page to help. The firefighters people pull. The animals of Australia goal is to raise five million dollars the page. Nearly one point three million dollars as a Friday morning and Australian actress rose. Byrne echoed echoed. Ellen's push telling the Associated Press that the country needs donations. Donations volunteer fighters the wildlife services. USA TODAY DOT COM for continuing updates. Next up a wild mix of weather is is expected in the eastern. US on Friday and into the weekend as USA Today whether reporter Dwell Rice explains we've got a wild Potpourri of weather on the way across the eastern half of the United States over the next few days. If you want it warm we've got warmth near record warmth will bring in midwinter heat wave across the east by the end of the week at the same time. The south will be bracing for an outbreak of severe weather and fled threat while a snowstorm targets targets the central U. S. and portions of New England. I The heat by Friday. Temperatures will soar into the fifties and sixties as far north North Illinois and Michigan and by Saturday temperatures could at the seventies in Washington. DC and the sixties in New York City and while the Midwest and the East enjoys the warmth. The south will be in for an outbreak of severe weather including the chance for tornadoes. Those areas under under the gun includes Texas Arkansas and Louisiana on Friday and much of Mississippi and Alabama on Saturday. Unfortunately the storm will also deliver heavy rain that could lead to flash floods and river floods from the Ohio Valley to the Lower Mississippi Valley. And if that weren't enough we've got a band of snow and ice forecast for nearly a two thousand mile stretch from the central plains into parts of the Midwest Great Lakes and northern New England into the weekend weekend. Some of the heavy snow is expected in Wisconsin and Michigan. Where up to a foot is possible. The first full moon of the year will be out. On Friday night known as the wolf moon the old farmer's Almanac says the name came about because quote wolves were more often heard at this time on quote other Nicknames Range Range from the cold moon to the old moon and even the great spirit moon at the same time. A lunar eclipse will be visible in some parts of the world but not not in the lower forty-eight though Alaskans might be in luck according to Earth Sky Dot Org ape an umbrella lunar eclipse occurs when the moon moves through the outer part of Earth's shadow also known as the Panera and last up so I'm gentleman must be something bigger for channels. Here have a brother. The Second Battalion. If they're walking into a trap the oldest message calling off tomorrow morning's attack if you fail it will be nineteen seventeen. The Innovative World War One film from Director Sam Mendez opens nationwide on Friday. The film film ridden by Mendez and Christie Wilson. Cairns is based on stories Mendez. Heard as a boy from his grandfather Alfred who was a nineteen year. Old Messenger for the British this army during the Great War the film already won the Golden Globe for best drama and has been nominated for a number of other awards. You can catch new episodes loads of five things Monday through Saturday on apple podcasts. And wherever else you find your audio including on smart speakers like Google and Amazon Echo you you can also subscribe for free and drops rating and review if you'd like five things is part of the USA. Today podcast network. Consignment is one of the simplest list ways to reuse resources and contribute to a circular economy. And the real. Real is the leading reseller for authenticated luxury consignment. Sell Your Men's and women's ends luxury. Fashion Fine Jewelry watches art and even homegoods. The real real simplifies the entire consignment process and makes it easy to sell your atoms with three easy options experienced their free white glove in home consignment consultation with one of their luxury managers or visit one of their brick and mortar locations for in-store store. Drop off where you can go through the authentication process in person. If you're short on time you can even ship your items directly to them using a free prepaid label. The real real team is professional and responsive. So you can be sure your pieces will be handled and sold with care so think sustainably consign with the real real today and earn up to eighty five percent the commission plus site credit authentic sustainable luxury only at the real real dot com.

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