3 Episode results for "World Bank Of Scotland"
Digital Economy: The future of payments
"Hello and welcome to the economist. Intelligence Unit Digital Economy podcast. I'm your host pizza. This is sponsored by DMC technology an independent IT services. Company that specializes in digital transformation. We thank them for their support payments. The Workhorse of the global economy the most numerous form financial transaction changes to the way in which consumers and companies make payments have implications for businesses of every kind the payments ecosystem has seen considerable innovation in recent decades from the back end infrastructure to the point of sale most recently the launch of payment services by the likes of Apple Google of Mart. We entrance a big tech into the frame in this episode of the Digital Economy podcast. We explore the present and future of payments and ask what the digitization of payments means businesses in the economy with particular reference to the K. K. Is a country that is adopted many payments innovations faster than most and it has risen to the challenge set by the European Union's Second Payment Services Directive which requires banks to open up their payments infrastructure. The resulting open banking promises to unleash even greater innovation by reducing the barriers of entry to the payment services market the UK's experience therefore is likely to foreshadow the evolution of payment systems around the world. My guests this month are Adrian. Buckle head of research portrayed dissociation. Uk Finance Steve Everett Managing Director of payments for global transaction banking Lloyds Banking Group and Fiona Roach Canning Co founder of UK based Fintech pollinate. I started our conversation by asking Adrian. What explains the apparent outbursts of innovation around payments in recent history? That hasn't been a lot of innovation. I'm payments in recent years. Although I think the changes in consumer behavior the patterns of payments that we've been seeing over the last five years probably driven more by innovations. That happened in the five years before that because people are very much creatures of habit when it comes to the way that they pay for things. It takes a lot for people to decide to change the way they pay and slow for example. The things that we've been seeing really growing over the last five years one of the key examples would be contactless payments and that has really exploded since about two thousand fifteen but actually the first contact and contactless cards were introduced in two thousand seven. So it's taken a long time for consumers to come round to the idea of contactless cards and then really take them and use them in a huge way such that by twenty eighteen. I think one in five payments made by consumers were made using contactless cards so we have seen some real innovations and real changes some of that due to changes in technology so for example contactless technology coming in but also mobile devices. And the fact that we're now all essentially carrying a mini computer around the time which gives us access to a huge amount of data and huge mountain information but also regulatory changes which have opened up the information that banks provide access to in the ways in which we can interact with all banks and those are going to provide changes that perhaps haven't had an impact on consumer behavior in recent years but are likely to be really key defining factors in the way that we pay for things over the next five or ten years you talked about how a contactless payments took a while to take off after day where the technology is originally released. What was it that catalyzed doctrine for for contactless payments here in the UK? Yes I think. When payments when contacts payments are introduced. We were very much in a situation where the card. Issuers didn't want to issue the cards until retailers have the call acceptance devices in place for people to be able to use those cons but at the same time the merchants card acquirers didn't want to spend the money on installing new card acceptance devices until consumers have the cards. And so you've got a classic kind of two sided market where both sides are waiting for the other I happily in the UK transport for London steps into this situation and they had seen that's great potential for the use of contactless cards on London transport. Systems place where a version of contactless was already in place. The proprietary system known as that transport for London uses and they realize that actually if they could encourage customers to over to using their contactless payment cards instead that it would save a lot of money for them transport for London in terms of the cost of running the system and so what this meant was transport for London encouraged. The KARDASHIAN was to get the cards. Outings consumer's hands and having out in a familiar environment that gave consumers more confidence than take the extra step to try to new retail environment. And so it really did kick start consumer adoption in a big way in this country so from a consumer perspective and Adrian says as Londoners. We're all familiar with the impact of for example contactless payments on our lives. Many of us will use it to get around the city a but what's happening behind the scenes. Steve What is this innovation meant from affects perspective? And have you as an organization had to adapt these payments methods of come into practice yes sir agencies kind of picked up very much on the context but if you go back got five years you know there was so much? Being bought with cash still. Physical crash was still there. Sixty percent transactions sort of five ten years ago was still with physical cash. That nats thirty percent and you look at the numbers that have been predicted. He's twenty twenty five sub Timpson. So so what if we had to work from the commercial banking sawed Lloyd's banking group and we have to work with those businesses that accept payments. And whether that's tear fail whether that somebody hospitality your restaurants and what have you. They need to be like. We used to be able to work with continually around their physical crash proposition. How do they get the cash out of their premises back into this? What we had to do that to to the rising conflict class so there was a lot of work in acquiring business about being able to get the adoption of people to take cards and particularly contactless cards. And that's been a been a big drive but actually what's also happening behind. The scenes is open banking so we see no from banking in new in UK now for two years with NAPA PSD to in Europe and open banking as it comes into many other markets around the globe be starting to transform the way the people and not just banks can starts in third party. Payment providers can start to come to the fore so we've had to make that investment because we have to adhere to the the regular listeners. Who may not know? Could you describe what open banking is? And what is and what it means in particular for payments so from an open banking perspective all of the UK banks Nine nine banks in Yucai hats. We Nabl third party providers who would be approved by the open banking entity and the FBI could access certain types of consumer accounts and business accounts and that meant that third parties could get access to the data in those accounts and pull that data into their own propositions and importantly then starts what she might payments now. The key here is that these. The parties have to be approved. So it's not just anybody can can into the spice but equally the client consent so me as a consumer. I have to give consent to that third party to go and access my my bank accounts at your wherever my mind. My chosen monkeys now. What that makes us far more easier for for new entrants toy into the market and therefore drive propositions it equally gives the banks. The opportunity to develop new propositions pollinate is a FINTECH that allows banks to make greater use of it that payments data and offer value to their customers. What are the developments in the payments infrastructure? That makes that possible. Could you be existed? Ten twenty years ago so great question so large retailers have been unlocking the power of their data for many years. If you look at somebody like a TESCO or Sainsbury's they've had the infrastructure to pull together their payments data. They're put level data and then then knowledge of the consumers and use that to drive massive sales and marketing campaigns through next own TESCO club called the innovation. That's been happening. More recently. Is that entrepreneurs and small businesses can also have access to that. There's now a plethora of companies that allow small businesses to have loyalty programs sales and marketing programs point of sale. I'm what pollinators allowing small businesses to do is rather than have two or three different services that they have to work out how to port data from one to the other they have to manage the permissions regulation around that data policies in the payment data to allow small businesses to more easily manage and grow their businesses by knocking the that data so rather than on a Sunday night. When you want to be having dinner with your family Downloading all of your transactions into excel to. Send them to your accountant. Accountancy we can enable that other click of a button more more generally. What role do you see? Fintech having independent in ecosystem now as a result of open banking is Steve is described as more opportunity for entrance to market. What what role do you think INTEX will play? So banks have traditionally been focused on the financial life of that lions and that is starting to change so what we're saying is challenger banks are offering their customers access to a much broader ecosystem of products and services often offered by INTEX. The hard thing for small business is being able to piece together the right solutions for their business and one of the things that we really liked about working with World Bank of Scotland is that they had a vision to return to the heart of the community in the heart of the High Street by being that single point of contact for small businesses to bring together that fintech ecosystem and for banks. It's always going to be about prioritization. Steve I'm sure you can agree to this. This regulation to adhere to large platform. Mike rations and what Fintech scan do pollinate is one hundred percent focus on that one pain point that they're solving for the merchant whether that be being able to digitize loyalty scheme or be able to more easily have their data flow into an accountancy package. And that's where I think you get the willpower of banks working within techs I at completely dose Rj. So if I go back and think about the big change programs I was doing ten years ago pretty much. All that tech was built in house now. Most Freebie changed program I do. There are third parties involved right. So we've just put in your cash payments platform for some of our largest corporate institution flights. We've bought that from what I'd probably call big tech but actually the beauty there needs to be to take that work within tech's to develop by. She say Niche Need Resolve Niche. Pain points that you may put two or three different solutions together from three different. Fintech and actually for the collective power of that and the speed to market in New Delhi. To experiment is kind of changing in terms of our ability to get to market and stevie mentioned apron banking We've had the privilege to build wilbanks. Liz Open banking solution for them called PADS Which is live online and live in pilot point of sale as well and the interesting thing about open banking. You talked about the two use cases one to request information and the other to trigger a payment and I think something like nine thousand nine point nine percent of course from companies at the moment is all about the information so we aren't yet really seeing that innovation in different ways to pay and to Adrian's point consumer creatures of habit and cash works really well for consumers in the moment and credit cards. What really well for consumers so until consumers given a reason potentially by banks or even by merchants because it's cheaper for them to adopt those new means of payment. They are going to stick with what's comfortable and what works an Improv. Something that I've been saying. We obviously get asked a lot. What is going to be the next big successful payment method or indeed? How much of shopping can we expect to move over to open banking in the next few years and exactly this point until we see a convincing reason for consumers to change their behavior whether that's Something that's more secure something. That's faster something that provides them with the discount will be ability to collect points or some kind of loyalty reward until we see some kind of use case it can be the best thing in the world from the point of view but it does nothing in it for the consumer. You haven't got a chance of persuading the consumer to change their behavior. I do feel like I should ask. Now what is the next big payments innovation again? I mean in terms of looking at if we look at the pattern of behavior so the big things that have been successful in the last five years of the things that were already around in the market in the five years before that so again I think you know the things that are talking about these open. Banking solutions and fintech driven solutions are likely to be the things that will shape the future payments over the next few years. So they're things that already exist. The difficulty is plucking out of the Murray. Add of fintech solutions. That are out there. Identifying not one that suddenly going to catch the public's imagination and really take off. There are some things that you can predict. You can see you can assess the level of usability that something has you can look at the factors that might make them more attractive to consumers but at the end of the day picking out the factor that will suddenly make something takeoff can be very difficult. It could be something as admiral as a tweet by Kardashian mentioned product and suddenly everyone wants to use it so both kinds of things. It's that kind of trying to lighten if I could predict exactly which was going to be the most successful. I would be a very richmond. Indeed so my view would be consumers. Don't know what they want done. What's available the drivers for these are the culprits are the merchants of the institutional clients that we talk about and my experiences. I getting a card out and having to put a sixteen digit numbering to a payment screen. Right I won't frictions as possible and you could say that is because the payments Geek. Because that's that's my job but that's what I want but at the moment unless I think about good things like Dr. It's standing orders. I am pushing the payment to the end recipient with time and almost all of my payments are going to businesses. There's very very few payments. Where making it from me as a consumer to another consumer so actually if I can get the corporate or the institutional client or the merchant to pull the payment for them. We have to push it. I think that's where the game changing is going to be going to come and I think that's where with what we've seen here in the UK with open banking combined with the maturity of instant payments. Right we've had instant payments now for eleven years. I think it is and that means that that we can pull payments. Now you know as long as you've given the concentric for the open banking scheme to be able to just let the corporate the person you're buying from pull that payment and that doesn't matter whether it's a merchant where it could be your water company could be your mobile telephone provider and if you look out to to Asia you go around. Singapore almost a free payment journey has being pulled through. Open banking using. Api's APR technology has really kind of been come. John Game. Changing the last couple of years so I think that that that gang changes can accomplish gonNA come from poor payments from the corporate to the consumer. Although as I say on that it is still for the use of the person making the payment. They need it to be simple to use to tive and as the minimum at least a good as experience as they currently have by paying with the caudal pain with another payment method. I'm ideally they need some additional benefits to to spur them onto jabs behavior. And I think it's that part that needs attention at the moment. Yes it's very clear. What's in it for the merchants and on that on that side? But it's communicating. What is in it for the consumer? What's in it? And how is this going to be presented to the no? I'm sure and that's the challenge. Sheriff in the commercial banking client base. They all operate in different sectors. They all may therefore have the ability to to change the way in which they're they're they're consumes customers pay them and it might be different charts all today. It may be eighty eight may be a discount. It may be but badge. This is why we haven't yet seen it. I think because of because open banking settling DAS- settled down inch pumps. This is now the opportunity to people to get him. We're seeing more and more clients. Come to say that you. Can you help us explain that? Can you explain what it is? And what the opportunity is so payments many spaces where we've seen incursion of of Steve mentioned big tech. We've seen the Google and apple. Watch their smartphone and contactless payments based features? What impact has that had? Let's let's say on the UK payments ecosystem and what impact to expected to have google uncle? Pay Apple pay launched thinking 2016 winning twenty seventeen. They have had a lot of take up in a very short space of time but they are really in the UK. It's the next step on from contactless. So it really is a kind of progression from the consumer's point of view. People start using contest payments using a card and then we're seeing the move onto them store the card information on them about device and then just use that device to initiate the payment instead. Certainly we have seen a lot of success. We've seen a sixteen only about two percent of people in the UK had signed up for we'll pay but by last year this was up to about one in six people registered. For at least one of these services that's driven by the fact that now when you get a new handset automatically takes you through the steps to set up one of these services but also looking at it we are seeing people now increasingly actually making use of the service to make payments and using it more and more regularly than Manhattan. So it's taking a while. People were first of all. You have your early adopters using it a lot but most people were trying at once and twice monitor twice and perhaps taking some time to become convinced about it but now we're seeing an increasingly high proportion of people using it on a very regular basis and is starting to take traffic away from people using a contactless plastic card and instead moving over to initiate the payments using their phones. You talked earlier about the sort of untapped potential of payments data in the valley and we know that big tech giants are nothing if not excellent it analyzing data and extracting the value. So what what is your aware. Are they doing with this data? Could they be doing this date? So if you look at companies like Google or Apple Amazon or Uber. What they're trying to do is create really engaging customer experiences and you could argue actually. They're trying to minimize the friction around the payments. I think animism was the first to do one. Click payment a couple of years ago. They didn't ask for your three or four digit security card to do that. And that's because they're trying to get the money out of the consumer make sure they don't lose that transaction uber well pioneered the invisible payments and apple seem to be using payments to drive the ubiquity of their hardware and is potentially less about the payment data itself and more about driving their own business models. Payment there are companies. Who are coming in. And they're definitely understanding both the value of the payment data and the value of that customer relationship. I was in Australia two weeks ago. And a bank is understands that a payment business and much requiring relationship is the first relationship in but also the first relationship out and so when they can see somebody. Sign out with a new merchant acquirer. They know that they're very likely to lose that. Banking relationship the financing relationships. That off the back of it which they know worth multiple times the value of the relationship so I think banks are definitely watching the the tech giant's to see what they're doing payments but in general actually the large tech companies aren't necessarily using the payments data themselves. They're just trying to minimize the payment to drive business models. What was talking about payment data? Are there any particular? Privacy concerns arise from the use of payment. Data is it regulated in any particular way. Their specific concerns that that you need to deal with any company. Managing payments needs to talk about so holidays. Very lucky in that we came to life in two thousand seventeen say the laws around general data protection already in place and so our platform is designed with privacy at his heart so one of the tenants of GDP for example the right to be forgotten. Silver Consumer says actually. I want you to erase everything you know about me. Platforms designed to make that very easy. Whereas other companies had to understand all the places that data was and design entire new sets of processes to enable that customer to be forgotten Payments Day. So you can learn a lot about an individual so for example if we let your current account information we could tell not just that you drive a car. We could actually tell the specific car that you drove because your registration is returned. As part of payment information we could work out your fuel consumption by the amount. You're topping up. We could probably work out. How many children you have whether you're an environmentally conscious purchaser whether your price sensitive so you have to be very careful around the personally identical identifiable information that you find in payments data and consumers have a lot of trust in banks being able to do that banks have a long history in appropriately using payments data. And that is a concern about giving data to tech giants. Who Don't necessarily yet half that trust. I think it's also one of the challenges with open banking as well as how do you empower the consumer to who has access to their data? And how do you enable them to differentiate between who is a licensed approved and regulated business? Who is going to be responsible and deal with their data in a responsible way and how do they distinguish them from someone who is perhaps a fraudster or scam artist or someone who is out to either still data and use it for nefarious purposes or alternatively initiate the payment that the consumer does not wants to be made so there is a certain amount of work that still needs to be there in terms of both consumer education but also the signaling to the consumer to enable them to make that distinction? Keep themselves safe when shopping online. And when using these new kinds of services Steve. Another common concern discussed when we talk about. The digitization of payments is the risk of exclusion financial exclusion of people. Who cannot or will not do not want to use digital devices for their payments. How great the threat duty this is. And obviously Lloyd's is a bank on which many people live their financial livelihood. What are you? What are you doing to manage this transition? So I don't see it. As a M Notre yes of course. There's a driving growth of digital payments quote the stats earlier but the reality is not everybody has smartphones. A large proportion of the people still don't have a smartphone just do not have an IPAD and therefore even if they use online banking digitalize. There's an awful lot of challenges around broadband in this country so so therefore when you turn it back into the is again as I said I keep unfortunately commercial commercial client needs to be able to accept payments in many many different forms if they can utilize them then that's great for them because it's more efficient frictional etc but but where people haven't got the finds the haven't got proper next that to take pay to different ways so they will continue to take payments for cash they will continue take Dr Davidson standing over this. And yes they will give continued to create alternative propositions around digital payments that may make it easier for for their consumers so so as not twenty five. Ten percent of transactions will still be physical cash right so there is a challenge and absolutely and we need to continue to work by ourselves as bank to two propositions to our clients important for our clients to make sure our clients are still around in ten years because they got the best propositions to take payments in all different forms Adrian duty. The so-called debt of cash is even a plausibility in the near the medium-term. I mean obviously we are. We're in a situation where the use of cash declining you only have to go back ten years to see at that point six out of ten payments in the UK were made using cash but by last year that had fallen to less than three hundred ten and in our latest forecast. Where Steve's referred to predicting that less than one in ten payments will be made using cash however fat should not be underestimated that is still a very significant and very important payment method and although we hear a lot of discussion about the move to a cashless society Marlboro. Actually seeing is a move to a society where we use cash a lot less than we did and indeed some people may start living. Tasha's lives and in fact we're we're seeing already. As many as ten percent of people already living their lives essentially cashless using cash in situations where they can't use another payment method but at the same time there were other people who very much prefer to use cash. And we'll continue to do so. And so what we're seeing is the challenge really for the industry is to move to a situation where we can amend the infrastructure which was designed for an economy that ran very much on cash and we can introduce a new wholesale cash distribution infrastructure that is efficient and is going to be able to keep working and getting cash out to the places where it's needed in the fish and unsustainable manner because the systems that we've got at the moment we're designed to a situation where seven out of ten payments were made using cash and as we're moving to an economy by maybe only one ten made that way. We're going to have to find a better way of making the sustainable unworkable for everybody so to to finish. I'd like to ask you all. Where is this taking whereas the innovation around payments that we've discussed and in particular the digitization payments whereas taking us as consumers as businesses and the economy is a whole? Let's start with you. I think we can all agree that the digitization of payments and the data that it creates will be a net win for the economy as a whole similar to the way that there were some losers when Google came into advertising by the yellow pages for example the net benefit for the economy was greater. I think it will be the same in terms of access to payment stage when the companies that that creates in terms of where it's taking consumers emergence go to one of Adrian's earlier points. It's really really hard to see what will be the next innovation in payments. But it's got to be that sweet spot in terms of what is meeting. The consumer needs cash has great benefits for consumers. I was in South Africa last week. And there was a whole line of people queuing opportunity to take out cash to join another really long queue to hand over again and making money transfer but that trust in physically holding the cash. The tangibility of that and the control it gave them was incredibly important. And until there's a payment method that makes sense for merchants because it's easier because it's lower cost and that provides those benefits consumers whether it be convenience whether it's control whether it's the tangibility and that sweet spot comes together to to cause that next leap. We don't know what that is yet but it will be fascinating to see. Sosas taking it so I I mean I think we work in the payments industries and incredible time to the payment industry because of all of this China innovation and in enhancing technology to really develop new propositions for for consumers and corporate clients. So we're going to see a convergence between cards and instant payments instant payments. Aaron out. Something like nearly thirty teams around the globe open. Banking is opening up fifty two across a across Associate across Europe and that's going to create completely new propositions in new wise in which we make payments whether that's qr codes haven't they haven't hit the the Western world yet. Actually and she should see South Africa. I was paying with. Qr codes only six. That I don't know where we will end up digital payments will come to the fore but physical cash and checks and traditional electric payments will still still be there. But you will see. New Payments is now be driven by the commercial clients into their consumes. Adrian I'd say for my view having been monitoring consumer behavior for the last decade. The one thing that comes back to me time and time again is that consumers really value choice and the value being given the choice of how they want to pay and when they do that they choose the method that is most convenient for them or the most secure for them or indeed provides sava some other benefit so I think it will be important to provide choice to consumers but also consumers react very badly to have any of that choice. Taken away so again. It's incumbent on the industry to ensure that as we move to bring the benefits of new digital payments to consumers that we don't forget those people who greatly value and prefer to use more traditional payment methods and so it's about bringing them the benefits of new payment methods to as many people as possible including educating about what those benefits could be for them if they haven't tried out new payment methods zip but also ensuring that people don't get left behind and don't get limited in what they can do. They can shop. They can buy and they're still provided for in an effective way and I think the one of the thing is around control. Consumers have a great need to feel that they are in control particularly because this is their money and so anything any system that comes in new payment methods that come in have to provide effective and simple control to the consumer. If they're ever going to be widely adopted agent Steve. Thank you very much for joining us. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Digital Economy podcast attacks again to our sponsors technology an independent. It Services Company that specializes in digital transformation. If you haven't already done so please. Make sure to subscribe on your platform of choice tune in next month when we'll be exploring the digitization of manufacturing.
Tammy Koslowski | Beauty Business
"In this episode is brought to you in collaboration with Royal Bank of Scotland and Hello Hi welcome to another episode of the Magan Show. I am your host. Am I gonNA wardner and in this show I'm joined by entrepreneur and owner of Naphtha if a beauty salon and Glasgow the brilliant Tummy Kozlowski if you follow me on instagram where I'm Megan's I do hope you following me there. Then you might have seen that I recently recently hosted an event called easy wins live in Edinburgh in association with bank the Easy Winds Initiative supports young people manage their finances start and grow businesses and also look for ways to ease juggling act of achieving a healthy work life balance and obviously this is the kind of thing that we covered you and I I most excellent listeners during report today and May when we talked about finances and how to manage your money the panel included Camilla Furlough who some of you may know primarily from La violent a couple of years ago fashioned business business owner Richard Davies and beauty Solomona Tummy Kozlowski. The team will bank asked me if I'd like to poke with any of the panel while I was up in Edinburgh and I jumped the chance to speak Tommy and here's why I've been a beauty writer for nearly twenty years and in that time I've been lucky enough to speak to you lots of brand owners unusually these big plays in the beauty industry people and brands who are already or are on their way to being household names Tammy is thirty years old and her sallow naff which stands bananas and face is three years old she has created a brand a space and services that have quickly made her own innovated in the field but it's very early stages as in terms of what I normally meet brands. When I spoke to her after our panel discussion it became really clear that she's open and honest about the process of starting a business the highs and lows and is is keen to share with anyone who has a passion or an idea they won't turn into a reality Tammy is being helped along the process by one of the Royal Bank Entrepreneur Accelerated Programs which offers coaching and networking to help new businesses and new business owners so in this conversation Tammi and I talk about turning a passion into a business the bits that go wrong and the stuff stuff that goes right the KI will she's learned since being her own boss and employing others and how to know when to stop and enjoy your successes all the links to Tammy Emme Math and world gangs entrepreneur accelerated programs will be in the show notes but here's my conversation with B._T.? Industry Trailblazer Tammy Kozlowski Yeah. Let's see like when I leave here just going to go amigos and get the chain to the point Nice Yeah Poor Jen getting re-ready to Birmingham and did you happen on the clean so they were on the plane and they were like in these type failed themselves descend really quickly and then they're like the the air pressure. There's something wrong with the air pressure. We're GONNA have to emergency London London-birmingham because there's like no air and then she said there was so that was like scared to fly and it was like she was like I'm glad to be off but she just by Tatum Rene at least tell me has lost gay. Thank you so much for joining me on an episode of the gun show hello. I'm released to talk to you because you have done something amazing. You have started a business and we see and regular listeners of this podcast because we'll know that I usually speak to brand donors who have brands that are now high street names <hes> very well known but you are somebody see who started the business. How long ago so I opened the sal on for years ago? Four years ago you're thirty years old. You're the owner of Naff it just math math stance vase and in Glasgow and you are you've done incredible things by turning passion into a business and as we speak today you have just a one two more awards. The Scratch magazine scored for silent of the <HES> and Social Media Star will done and because you've won the second can one three times in a row. What does that know me so we are no in the hall of fame the Scotch magazine Ole Scratch Stars Hall of fame and the Social Media Cagney which as incredible is really really wanted to win it this year and I'm so glad that we did so I get to be a judge next year which is Swiss i-in when I spoke to you so <hes> <hes> listen to them? No I hosted an event that you were part of a handle of up in Edinburgh to deal with the World Bank of Scotland and easy wins and it was basically basically we talked about business and managing finances and what we've had to get your head around is turning your passion into a business and then basically developing business brain and I never a lot of people who listen to this show might have passion projects that they are thinking about starting up or side hustle that they'd like to make their full time job so how where did it all begin. What was the original passion so the original passion was genuinely just doing my neal's? I did my dissertation petition that I am. I always have to be doing something with my hands. Otherwise I just feel depressed. If I'm not like making something so I studied bitcoin design and technology at Uni always saw in making things and when it came to my last year I was just doing my dissertation so as rating and Danilo reports and I just didn't feel like I had to create a vote by dead love pain and my Neal's Anim- swin tumbler is really taken off and I was seeing you know these amazing nail designs and I thought I saw reprint Neal's and I thought I mean I've obsessed with lay prince so I thought I could easily with island l. sold it and it'd be it will at least from there and it was just a really nice when when I was sitting right my dissertation my laptop it was really nice to be looking at some brightly colored fun looking nails and like something that I could be off as well so it totally spiraled from there and I started taking pictures of my nails didn't tutorials putting them on Tumbler anim- I mean when I look back on them. They're not not so gorgeous time. People are really into and start beating the news too and so from the START I painting my friends nails statements elva vintage fears Tonle Tampons to kneel are and then from there yeah I just kind of well I got kind of bored and other people's not board if he and other people's nails I I was trying to think like Kokin I do more people's nails with sitting in front of them all the time and like physically having to be the because it was quite tired and I was entering into the team and working taken as a visual merchandiser so it's quite difficult to and so I started in making Neil decals which early tattoo transfers for your nails Amazon started no actually started paying enforce Neal's I._B._M.. Falls Neal's sold them on as so it was like the designs I was doing on other people but I could say to people and London and Manchester and then I started making Neil decals and then the neal decals where they can a business to call from so I actually go and chased from top shop stock in the Neil decals so that was like an appointment. I had to decide to just keep this as his are like or dislike anti-business so sexy on for that and I'm glad I made enter business. What was the was the salon the thing you thought where I'm going to do this and I want us out on Yep so Iran ah so the neal decals? I ran the business for two years cold D._I._Y.. Neal's and I love doing that. I just as I was doing that with Supply Neil decals to work intakes and to all these amazing islands in the states where you could go win in lake. There is like eight people working there. You get whatever you want. It and we just didn't have that in Glasgow. A new some incredible individual neil takes but they were working either loans or rain and rims and other beauty salons or rain in single rooms themselves are working at home and I just thought there's so many there's there's such a huge crowd of Glasgow and there's no way that really reflects those people like where Neil silence but it wasn't a place that I must say. I felt like I was amongst my people when I always felt like my here's to macy to go in this place to awkward. Will someone want to paint a picture of my dog Daniels. I don't know so I just thought I I just wanted to Ceylon exist and I thought we'll have been running a business for two years. Annoy nails people know with. I am passionate about nails. Make sure it's a base or I'll open to ceylon that won't be hard my eyes he's twitching that e commerce to bricks and mortar and bricks and mortar as a generally not doing as well yeah it has previously so what what was the biggest challenge. Do you think looking back just one yeah the biggest challenge looking back I had an idea I knew I could execute to. I knew what my limitations where in terms of like the style on the biggest challenge for me was making making sure that everyone ails could deliver the vision and I think that was the biggest challenge to stop forest and then the next biggest challenge was dude nails for two years while growing the business which was I'm I'm not saying I'm terrible. Oh number some stop and saying that because I'm actually not I just I think about them differently but it was it was getting on top of finances. It was keep it on top of all the Adleman things that you need to keep on top of each staff client control like it really will client here no control intial Jeez. Everything was a challenge it was the business was the child the vision the G._M.. The brand ever the Mr. I'm good at Neil's I mean the guy does add hired record at nails. That's all fine and wail. You can have all that but it's actually turned into like something that works. It's like there were other. You know all sorts of things and did they ever at any point to the addition of those things eh derail your belief in your original idea yeah one hundred percent there. There UNADOPTED CHIESA AND SORTA they'll get contained these and I just got to the point where I thought as it is actually worth it like I'm running myself and I'm compete anything and all I'm doing is like making sure the other people okay all day and I'm falling apart and I'm struggling with the business business side of everything so there was definitely points where it got really really overwhelm and it's really tough but I think I saw how people reacted to the business nothing. I saw something in spatial and it was. I have to see everything through so I thought I need to keep go and there were points for yeah. It's a very steep learning curve. I think anyone who's done whether it's <hes> for another business for their own business s when you begin to grow incredibly steep learning curve you make one mistake with your profit and loss. You never made that mistake again yeah for Russia it. It's a lot to take in and it can feel a little bit like fighting fires. That's my job and I think but I think in my personal experience experience though there was a point where the thing that was like finances for examples of great exam of not feeling like I had my head around it yeah. That's when the investment in getting somebody to help his was the best decision to deal with that but we could opening for naturally saying I need help yeah. I think I'm an ambassador so I I know where my strengths and weaknesses are so I think the town's for me was finding the right person to help and no one. I think the hardest thing is actually just knowing what you need. Help worth and then go in and find the right person to help with that. There are so many resources it can be hard when your heads and every day because you think do. I have time to go and find help but it's it's really important that you do take taming finder because all help you so much in the long run how far into the salon someone's life did you mm start looking for somebody to help every six months and yeah but it's six months came up to Christmas and it was so busy and I just wasn't isn't able to do anything like a long tainted at has taken me a long time to get my head around the numbers of my business work and I've had to learn learn earn. I've had to create like a process that works for me and it's taken a really long time to get there so the tame. I just really needed someone to like. Take control of and for me. How did you find those resources so we've actually gotten into the ball like ecosystem and Scotland. There's so much help for businesses so we have Scottish Enterprise Business Gate we and most recently I've had incapable help from royal buying with the entrepreneurial accelerator program but also just speaking to other people with businesses wail and seen who the hot to help them and then also just ask for help from friends and family people's patents sort of came into the inaugural McCain and some really good with numbers. They've agrees system for the numbers near business. Listen to podcasts like just getting help. Whatever but it's just fighting the net yeah given that the team that's the thing thing so somebody's listening to this show because we have a global audience and then at that point where they think they might want to start a business? Would you suggest that they actually look for resources funded by local local other local businesses or maybe the council's all the entrepreneurship program and Young Business and prizes. I guess that they that's not just exclusive Yousef to Glasgow. Yes be those sorts of resources were yeah. I think it's so important I think when you got an idea you you have a vision in your like. I just WanNa get it done. I don't want anyone to come and tell me it's not the right idea but sometimes you do need that and I think like all these services are there for a reason I very much was was added. Get my head down and went I went for it and I've always thought we'll walk in the hill moveth really like I know I want to do like so Kocaeli so bought ah there's so much to be said I've got such an incredible network around me know of other entrepreneurs and I've been exposed to people that I never ever would've came into contact with in my life because I'm such a bubble with my business so it really takes me at my head and I've had such incredible advice from the people people that are also important. I think teaming up with another business owner in the same source sake there that you're in it doesn't have to be what you're doing like if you're dealing with customers or clients on a daily basis just find someone that you can confide and then you can help each other and look at those resources and speak to people and everyone and Kale at people your problems because there's if you talk to another business don't. I'm sure they're going to have the same problem that you've had in some mm so we are no someone else and do when you started what what kind of job title did you give yourself did you did you have one almost of. Neil boss and then. At what point did you start to realize. You had a cruise accumulated. All of these entrepreneurial skills feels like when you I would consider it. Say You're an entrepreneur. How does that I do not I. I still have such a hard time. Call myself an entrepreneur no no but when I look at myself and all the things about me I used to think where like my league crazy too. You know what I mean like. I am an entrepreneur and I have entrepreneurial spirit and not that is that little little thing that keeps me going is about as hard for them to preneurs spirit if you had to <music> sum up what no that's difficult. I think for me personally is just is L. O.. Oh fire in your belly. You know like that that is taken a thaw and make an intangible you know and just believe in the idea of yours but also seeing everything around and no-one no-one China make it work you know and I don't know pin resourceful. Did anyone ever say to you own. Oh you should do this and you had to. You have to disagree with maybe somebody had more experienced in the and and when when did you concede and when did you stick to your guns yeah. I feel like it's been quite a lot and I feel like I with Magog. Law and I knew I want to do so. There have been times in the past. I remember when I first started this aisle on. I I tried to access that ecosystem by going through the funding. which isn't why should have done like? I should have gone for the help and advice by Lynch date for funding and in a nearby lake I went with my business proposal of treating the solemn that was like a community and looking after staff and images candidate. You know like there's a silence service. Industry like you're not going to basically is not going to work. The way you think is going to work and it's it's not gonna be this incredible business going to take over the world so I didn't listen to that advice because I thought well no because I know nor it's going to work inside that will work because I'm at the helm of it so I have to make it work but there have been teams but then I sat down with aw fail silo and owner and she told her all the things I wanted to do and she basically said no like skillet back just to Neil's like you can do just Nielsen the lesson to heart because I knew and knew she'd been through I did and I I didn't want to employ everyone what they want to be self employed and she gave me the base piece of advice for what you WANNA. Do you need to employ because you need to is your vision and you need to make sure everyone is aligned with our so I did listen to her so I think I think you sometimes you. Don't go for advice because you don't want to hear. You don't want to hear anything against what you think well you. I think I think it's like trust your guy. I would trust your up for sure yeah. It's goodbye and the the other thing being. The solids have a very distinctive look and feel yeah something. That's very different from anything else that existed close by and I wondered again how you chose to do that because it really is got you all was that another are important parts of it. It's not just about the service. It's about creating creating a space and environment that people come to feel a certain way about when they're in the place. Can you describe right listeners so far. Ceylon was all over the place like checkerboard floor pink walls neon signs everywhere the plant will bear feces stuck to the world. This is everywhere like inspirational course hung in like different colored frames and I'd just like and we've got a porcelain call. Porcelain Lampard called liberace. We've got porcelain. She called share. You know I just I like I said like when walked into silence before. It just didn't feel like it reflect. They reflected my personality and I. I like to be around things nice things. I like you know and so I thought there's got to be more people like me who maybe feel out like not in traditional style like they're keble. They have a place for sure but just for me. Imagine how like I feel like socially anxious and I go somewhere. You know. It's nice to feel like I'm amongst the things represent me but I just wanted. I knew I knew we were going to grow on instagram. We were in this office. That was two floors above street level so no one there's ever GonNa. We're never going to get walked past and trade so I just wanted to make sure that it was super instagram -able so we always had something to take photos off up and if it was a neil's rose had had nice backgrounds and then I just wanted to make sure that when clients were sitting and obviously you can be some people up for up to four hours getting their nails has done and you want something nice to look at so I just want to make sure that every police client could look when they were sitting down had something and fun to look at and something to make them smile and you know all the little inspirational quotes they may need that that day you know and it might just be something that resonates for them and they just think I just want something that they could take pictures resolve as well so it's very our new salads a lot more minimal but it still totally got the exact same vibes. I think it's more grown up for this. I'm an at risk flakes. The rest of the T. Moore's Wail and so we've we've got white walls but there's like a pink data will ran the top pink trims and we've still the neons seines and flowers everywhere and it's just it's a really really nice base and I want to be nice for matting to work in Israel. How important has instagram instagram or social media more specifically in the business. That's that's what we've grown on like. I don't like to see. I don't think we'd be in the same position. With Ota but I don't think we would be genuinely a we work really really hard to make sure our socials are always on point. I actually have a like a day to team that worked on social media and everyone within the Ceylon has their rules so all the nail technicians have to take every say Neil's not not just for instagram pictures but also because it's part of the client expedience to know like the clients want their nails to go on instagram pede so as part of that whole whole that whole journey through the silo and our stories every means our clients get to know our team know who to begin with and he can feel part of the expedients and I just think it's so important is open so many doors for us and secondly like instagram has helped us build a huge community. He'd like we call our whole team and everyone interacts with us. The NAFEESA and I just think we wouldn't have the NAFEESA if it wasn't for social media and also also we have our own fraud brand a math stuff. We have a range of cuticle oils that we know only sale in the salon actually wholesaled in six hundred salons across the world and that's all down to social media and we get to share we get to share like those silence and Saddam's was when the post about our products and it just it just as for me social media as a community and we are just like a personality on their totally hi Tony. I'm curious as well about maybe misconceptions or anything you had to come in terms of being somebody who is a business so now he may be. Have you ever had because you have a business because your young women. Did you have a fear that they weren't taken seriously all the time all the time remember at the skoch awards last night it was talking to so many so many women in the industry who feel the same a lot detained tame the conversation. I have is some imminent taxes for example. What do you do? I run a business. What's the business I WANNA Neil Ceylon. Uh So is it just you didn't Nielsen so it was just me didn't Neil's like props to me props to anyone who's running a one person business business like I think it's so difficult you know about is almost like you see when I got my first class honors and first first class honours at UNI amazing. What did you get in fashion. Well probably just dawned pictures so I do as difficult as really difficult difficult especially so that's why I was like whenever joined the Royal Bank Entrepreneurial Accelerator Program which is incredible. I was so scared because that was going to be in this room of like tech start ups and healthcare companies and I talked myself down so much I was like I'm just going to go up there and link talk and kneels and everyone's GonNa Laugh at me and I didn't say six six. He's put sixty sekine page edna sexy say competitive and won a pitch competition twice by doing my talk coils and skincare and you know so I think yeah I think people don't take tickets. tediously sometimes as well like the industry is huge huge and people title is just. There's so many misconceptions about. I don't know if it's to do with people think it's vanity that it's not important but it was one of the only indices to rise because if you're you may not have enough money to buy a new house or buy a new car but if you've got an spear for opponents month you're certainly going to do something that's going to make you feel good about yourself and something you can wear every so a have have failed to law and I do. I do get a lot but no I really actually kit and a lake being on day to meet because I actually enjoy the process of being lake. Make some and being like Oh. I'm like well. I employ nineteen people and another business me wholesale two six hundred people across the world so is it not that impressive. I have no what's interesting about report. I was telling you about British Peachy Council Commission the research into the industry and the fact that it generates more and I will we'll have to put the link to the show notes 'cause like heartaches figures but it's regenerates more revenue than the automatic income. I get goosebumps and you see like genuinely like incapable and I think what's really interesting as well as like I said I'm because at my job having wives and beauty for such a long time I I will meet people when they've succeeded. Yeah it's very rare for me to meet somebody in your position which is amazing to actually hear how you've done it and the fact the when you do talk to me though I d I mean when is it going to just like it's a constant. You're on a very steep yeah. I feel it quite overwhelmed by that something like Bruce Plateau but I don't want you know of no. I really enjoy being we'd. I'm not because I feel like industry as a whole. There's like like we're we're on. We're on something that the woman like. There's so much buzz like I feel Vahidi at you. Saw Happy that I've fail failing to the industry and I'm so glad to to be on this can upward hike with everyone and especially for the nail industry as well. I think like I just think that a M- nails of everythin- people will there are a lot of misconceptions nail technicians and walking just it myself and can get cheaper and it's the same with like any like may call up here skier massage all of that but I just feel like there's something something is really happening at the moment there's so many women going self employed like Clinton their jobs and do what can be a and I just I just I feel like there's something newly spatial come in and I'm excited what I noticed when we did that panel. There were lots of people in the room and a couple of the girls. He sat in the front row. Were Nail settle notice a couple of nail salon owners. Yeah I can't remember the name of this Alan were here. They're here Ceylon while they but I noticed afterwards we the other panelists and I were from the corner. I think by the ball would go and sit with them. Because when I open the floor up to questions they mean to be we'd really like to know from tammy about this and and the obviously you seemed incredibly unguarded an incredibly open and <hes> welcoming oversee took a the time to answer that question is how important is it to to be in close contact with people who could potentially be your competition of that competition competition for me. I don't like to be in competition with anyone. Actually I think there's so much space for all of us in industry and that's what we're really trying to promote with Nafez like we are in Glasgow. There's another beg silo in a four minute. Walk away from US and there doesn't don't need to be any competition between us like we all help each other. I am I try as much as I can to to go and speak to visit. Does it interact with as many silence as can across here Buli Weixin Skin Kit. I think it's so hard I know how hard it is to Rana Ceylon and how isolated and it can be you worked with the team every day but you can't sometimes talk to your team about your team like you. Sometimes teams need that help and because we are in the industry and we don't feel like we are businesswomen. You know like these women aren't maybe access sason everything. That's available to them so I think it's so I if anyone asked me any questions about running a saloon. I will give them all the knowledge icon and all the help I can take the help that I come from them and the team that we've got because a distinct is so important I made so many women last night who to worst in Connecticut have a five and a tat. I was like all the time you need like. Ask Me anything and I just think it's so important to to to speak to each each other. There's enough clients for everyone. I think clients are their own people. They can choose whatever they want to go. We don't own them. There's no point fighting over them. All we can do is offer the bay services that we can offer our look after our staff or the people that work in the silo and look after the clients from there the and learn from our mistakes and just continually try and discontinue try and make sure people don't have misconceptions about it'd be industry and the more we talk to each other the more we talk to our clients and the more we talk about it everywhere the more that people understand that hard artyom to run a business and how brilliant these women are are running the businesses. You know exactly what we would do with sale in the coils. Israeli we make sure and give all the salons the attention that they've got any questions if they're finding a heart to reseal the products we will give them a call and let them know like our tips and techs are are and I think it's important Saudi. I would could jabre on for ages but I do feel so passionately about it. Am I employ everyone. I don't have my name self employed staff employees all the ghettos and the women and there comes a point in time where we're we can only pay so much our because what we because of what we can so what we charge for the service and obviously what we charge for the service as bell on and what people perceive as worth so we we have these conversations that remember don't talk down your job. Don't talk during the services. Give them all the knowledge that you've learned in these eight years four years five years. You've done neal's make sure that they know that the service is worth it. That's why I run the SAL and the way that I do. I've got a manager manage asylum monitor and assistant manager Social Media Reception Gua- sales manager like so much emphasis on getting the team looked after so the oldest is doing the service educating the client and win win that point that the the can't go farther and the business which is is also something that I'm working on. I want to give them opportunities to go further in the business but when they get to the point that they want to be self employed. I don't want to do the traditional thing that people do and give them guard and leave them behind their contact clients. You can't do this. We've just had one of our one of our nail takes. Leave Amanda. She's gone off and start your own business. She told me that she was leave. Him said that's billion. I'm so excited for you. I'm so glad I've given you. The platform to go on your own has exactly why do we sat down with our. She asked us to do's and don'ts can. I use force on social media. Yes you can use the foresee took in here as long as you tie goff's N._C.. They're done in Solomon Kenai. I'M NOT GONNA she said I'm not going to push any clients. I said these are your clients they come to. To you we will contact them for you and the more you win. You're leaving and where you're going and if they want to go to you they can go to you. You know as their doesn't and I I think I always wanted to show my clients. Should this and I don I feel upset and it can it can be really personal but if you put from a conversation one of just respect on both levels if both people are respectful then you can make such an exciting journey and keep in contact with islands and yeah and I think that goes for any a business like if people are moving on their life your businesses your life and that's their life and you can only look after them when you're responsible for them. Sorry I'll get off my soapbox really really follow owners and you'll have had many a time. They took my clients yeah and certainly like that at the star. I've just realized the thing that I I love the people that work for me. I love them and I have a key to them. An magic cures should extend past them just being in my doors you know for me and I just think if I can speak about that and other people oh can adopt that as well. I think everyone would be a lot happier running their businesses and I feel like the people in the businesses would be a little happier and hopefully even to someone listen to this no in the I've been in that position where they fail upset by someone leaving just have a look back at the situation and just think how could I have made that goal nicely for one and sometimes people are just horrible and dislike them goal yeah. That's the thing because I think the way that you're describing. It sounds very open pin. It sounds very kind. It sounds very generous actually and I wonder whether those those attributes sometimes leave one slightly porous to to be taken advantage of the felt like that. We've found this I am I have learned to Atlanta to harness that into something that makes me happy and something for other people in the past i Vadim was just late. People take advantage walk all over me and then being really upset about it but when I got to the point of why does this always happen to me. I realized it's happening to me is reacting reacting in this situation so I think as come with confidence confidence in on I am an entrepreneur. I am a business owner and is my business zoll so why c goes like lesson to me as a respect thing so I just need the people that are around me to respect that they need to know that I respect them so that they can respect me and I think there it's just been a fair enough to know you can be nice and you can be direct you don't have to you don't have to lie in <hes> late. People do whatever they want. Ev is making you unhappy but you you can you can look after people and be nice and B._J.'s but also have bone days nothing by Jesus. The most important word is just no-one no-one where where you're are GonNa hit the point where you're unhappy and as I'm I'm the same in my personal life is ill you know I don't think I've mastered so much in my personal life but and I've not certainly no master about spreading because I was gonna say how'd you knew what your boundaries and you've just said. Is that point where if you go beyond a you'll be unhappy yeah yeah. I'm really I'm done with him feeling rubbish yeah so maybe sometimes you do have to work yourself into the ground and a couple of times to be league. That's when you're like is it worth it is it worth is what you're doing. Worth it. Yes is is how you're doing with it. If it's heartening knoll changes do something different tinder true good advice thanks. How do you stay? How do you know when it's a good time to expand on what you've already created so for example with the adding merchandise yeah how because see we always have big ideas? I know I do then. I think but I'll I'll hit the go button when such when have you found that you've when do you know. Do you just have a feeling or do you wait for the profit and loss to look just as you want it to look well well. I wish I could say that. I waited for the and look I am no I do. I have so many so many people to look after I can't make the same risks I meet at the start of the business. So Star of the business very much got feeling have an idea. Go free. Stay up for five nights in a row making sure it happens completely not thinking about the money say not worrying about money. I just kind of is very much like if I have to get law no law no if I just want to make this happen which was good in some senses and I'm glad that that some of those things who is also bad and other senses because no knowing what I know now I know in terms of finances and the we- everything works and the processes that I've got very very reckless and I got through lost by this GonNa my teeth and actually six months ago was the first time since opened in the business that we wear free because of decisions I made ah the star. I'm like not paying attention to weigh in. We were going to be VAT registered and just think an oral B.. Find someone will tell me ah the door and then you end up with a huge bell that you're like fighting to be bike. You know so I think I think you'll know you know and it's raped eight by Lincoln again. Your limitations and you're like the bone Jews in need to say it by yourself so if you're like if I'm not if I have ideas all the team <music> but I write them. Don't just go and do them and then if I'm still thinking about them. A weekly are then all thing okay. There's something in this and need to talk to Nicole any to talk to Lisa. I need to make sure sure everyone's workloads can accept this idea. I need to make sure that I put money away every week so I._p.. All our bells until savings weekly up here evatt bill into an account weekly so that when is ready to come so I very much have to our money weekly which actually works for me because I have an idea that week I'll see okay. We've got X.. Amount Spear in the budget this week we have anything to pay off the Denison for the sal on top the anything once all those things are sore or it can refund this idea. I don't WanNa be in debt so as agree idea yes could I maybe scale back and just do on socials or do in a way that doesn't cost us money so I think I think going on your is really important but also not in the past. I've only worked myself into the game but worked the people around me into the ground. Because almost I wasn't taking advantage of them. Knowingly bought like almost like took advantage of the fact that I was their boss and they were going to do what I said so me. Having when this like crazy idea that actually had no financial or like business like nor positively towards anything you know just because it was an idea that had and then just realized it was quite quite narcissistic thing to do to basically work one into the grain so you can be like. Did you know so. It's just Kinda. Maybe having a little checklist of like doesn't always have to make money like everything could be brand. Building gnarly can just to help make a nice day for everyone. I'm just going to be in lake. Am I going to hurt myself denness. Am I going to hurt the business going to hurt the financials financials and you know if no then go FRA but if you can see like the long term benefit and something you know I think I'm looking at it from the other Said's so if you ask me like two years ago I'll be like Oh don't doesn't matter I believe in yourself but but that's what you get from experience and just like Super Soley sitting here doing the same things in year four the you were doing in year one then that might be worrying yeah. I don't know if I would have a low support me yeah so I guess to clarify. I'd be really interested to know what your mentor Olmert Motto Is. Whether that's in life or business whether it's the same one or whether you you have two different ones to to but there can have quite similar. No I would say three. Let's just do. I like to always either. No I think may be caned eventually got it tattooed on my leg so I can remain myself because I always just think when you're wearing jeans while I I just know is there. No I just feel like always became you. Do you know anyone's going through it seem as if we have a client is causing was an a- raucous and missile over lake to pioneers or something and sometimes the Lake Nicole whoever on the desk can be lake so named Droppin Nicole billion view you know like it might be like Oh why she acting like that. I'm still frustated now. Just be like you don't know what's what's happened today. That is not nothing that to paint has got nothing to do with you. Like is not a big deal so just be nice to see okay. That's totally fine. You know became a M- and then <hes> will at a year. I always say that like am. I going to be worrying about it in a year. If something's maybe a little bit a little bit kabbage Almond and iron about it but it's something that will have a huge game to me into everyone array male distinct. It's not gonNA under year this eight hundred quit. There's something in you know so name but if it will make in a year always have to say that an and Malacca last one is the one I always say to myself is just the world's not going to fall apart. You know like if you don't the email by five o'clock. I'm not gonNA fall apart. Yeah tomorrow might be a little bit more difficult you know like or if I need to ally in completely overwhelmed like the world isn't going to fall apart and sometimes when like talk to yourself Tommy like literally like the war you didn't this yeah perspective is the worst I tand words professional. I I have a feeling I'm just GonNa Watch you go global global more success delighted about because you all client and you are brilliant person to hang out with just seem the destroying your saints other really Nice just like pilled headphones as so it's fine. It's getting links to Tammy Jimmy Fallon cuticle oil and everything else will be in the show notes which can be found where viewed as a streaming and downloading this episode but tell me thank Sir. Thank you so much absolutely loved it. Thank you so much for listening. I really hope that you enjoyed that episode before you go. I just wanted to remind you that. If you wanted to get in touch with me which I would be delighted to you to do. I love hearing from me then. Please do email me at the beauty podcast at g mail dot com if however you think I know I just want to send a quick note or maybe even a gift for me slide into my dams on social media on twitter I am at Emma Gums and instagram the crap. 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Ask Me Anything and Everything | Part 2
"<music> hello hi and welcome to another episode of the emma mcgovern show. I am your host and we're going to order aka. Emma guns and i'm delighted to have you with me. Thank you so much for joining me. It's pop two of us me anything. I did an awesome anything in the last episode and they were too many questions for one episode so i thought let's let's make it into two and also didn't a little shoutout on instagram saying. I've got a couple more questions and didn't let me down. You never do my most excellent listeners. You've come up with some great ones so shall we crack on just housekeeping ping any links to anything or anyone mentioned can be found in the show notes which all wherever it is that you are streaming and downloading this episode which i appreciate you doing. The first one is about meditating because this was in response to what i just put up on instagram because i put up a post about how i had meditated in the park and how i felt very boiler. I do think if you meditate normally when i started out i find it i find it. I i found i would find a quiet space in my home and i would sit and meditate. You'd have to sit on the floor. You can on your safe. You can tell ratings anywhere and i really really love going for walks. In the morning and i've started to incorporate at the end of my walk i just sit on a bench under a tree and and i do my ten minute head space meditation so in answer the question. What are you using to meditate. I use the head space up and kim has been on the show. You can find that up into that in the show notes and i find that such a useful resource because particularly this week i woke up on. When was it somebody there's a car outside beeping. I think you need to stop. Not you carry on keep listening. Just the outside i we caught by morning this week. Really i detected and there was no reason for it. I was like <hes> you slept seven hours which is decent fear you didn't he anything peculiar media yesterday haven't had alcohol but i just woke up edited and irritated and so i thought why we have to have to get this in check so so i went for a really long walk and did a lot of you know tried to inhale a lot of wonderful fresh air but i really realized that i needed to eat head space ace and what it does on a day like that is it takes me down from like an eight and it just sort of resets me. It just means that and it's because i've been doing it for a while. The practice of meditation is that you can get to that space. You can get to that place where you feel calm or more solid where you feel more grounded a lot quicker. It's it's like building a muscle and i woke up and i just thought no something's off. It's nothing there's nothing to worry about but you just need to make sure that you meditate and i decided on a bench under a tree because i felt like it was like intense danger meditation. I thought the stakes are high today. You really need to calm down some things off off and it was really beautiful. It was wonderful so i use head space. The link will be in the show notes and as i said andy adam who is to create co-creator of head space has been on the show before he got back through the feed. The other thing to note is that <hes> i have friends who just meditate by counting by just really paying attention to that counting in that breath and they don't use an app or anything or they just particularly focused on a they think about a certain thing when you don't have to necessarily use an app i know frontier users youtube that are some guided meditations. They're very very very easy to find wind so if you are looking to meditate if you want to begin it's really it's really worth during for those days when you you think oh not feeding so chipper today something's off and i know i definitely don't need coffee. I'm not going to exercise out of this and i just don't don't have the time to really fix in any other way. Meditation ten minutes can make all the difference so i highly highly recommend it <hes> another question. This one came from facebook okay. Do you like working freelance more than for a company slash magazine. Yes one hundred percent without a doubt but the truth is. I probably would never have tried to work for myself for freelance. The situation hasn't been forced upon me as it was. I would say for me. I took voluntary redundancy from job but i was already at the place where i really wanted to leave so in many ways that was very very lucky okay because i just i wasn't going to make any progress and there was no. I felt like it was. I couldn't move anywhere. I talked about this before and the percocet. There's no point going over who for it but i felt a little bit trapped and also i'll be really honest with you. I'm not great in an office environment. I'm not very good at playing politics. I'm i'm quite laser focused and they want the things to be done. The best that they the best they can and i'm not the easiest when i feel though everyone's pulling towards the same goal i find it very very frustrating and i have a face that is incredibly incredibly expressive and you can read it in every single working environment. I've had people say to me i have to i call it liquor you and meeting because i know you're trying not to be your face everything anyway i also caught bare facts nece or laziness and start right there but yeah yeah office environments office is aren't my my place. Actually working for myself has been really great because i don't have those frustrations sion's anymore. I don't have to worry about this or the other and i know that makes me sound awful and i probably am but i think i was just with justin to work for myself or do short term projects with people because that's where i think high-added-value when someone says obama. Can you offer us insight on this. Yes i can. We work our action than away. We go. I do put a a lot of effort into the work that the works. I do the things i do and i i never intentionally half off anything and is the old thing of working your ass off. Someone else's else's work for yourself. Stress is a freelance life can be greater because the buck stops with you <hes> and there's more jeopardy <hes> if you in in terms of the financial side of things but the rewards also more a great satisfaction in awards but that's not not to say it doesn't take a while to get used to it. I've been pronounced now for seven and a half years and i would say i would say that the first half of that was all absolutely winging it because i had assumed seemed i just do what i've been doing on a magazine from home and really were looted in happen so there's been a lot of flying by the seat of my pants getting by the skin of my teeth heath and that definitely wasn't a plan but i'm not sure i'm not sure plan would have helped. It's a bit like that. I know this from. I'm unpleasant experience but from friends experiences where they say i've got a birthing plan and then they go in there and labor in like in the midwest are like okay then because because you don't know what's going to happen necessarily so you can have a plan but you have to be adaptable and i think that's kind of how i feel when i look back at how i started in pre lots. I don't think there are things i would definitely do differently but the idea of having some kind of plan is almost bonkers because what's going to come your way and just to give you an example within weeks leaving the magazines. This is a magazine. I've been nearly ten years and i knew exactly how everything looked on. You exactly what to do for everything thing. I was on with a backstage on on the cheryl cole tour in the u._k. Doing social media backstage assuming head tutorials for a hair care brand that was pitching stories for magazines but that wasn't what i was doing six months later so most of it was having to be really adaptable but i ended up if i look back i was just panicking the whole time going all do thanks okay. Go do that too. Yeah what but i guess when i got back the thing that changed everything and made me feel more secure within freelancing was having the cost so it was like the poll oh cost her name was became the backbone of everything the core of my output and even though it was over even that wasn't making money it was costing money for two years before i even started to think about breaking even slash monetize ing it really becomes a grounding thing i often think it must i guess when when i before that point i would sometimes have bronze that i would work with something on a retainer basis for contractive six to twelve or eighteen months and that would be something of a backbone but you always knew it was coming to an end and i know my friends who are freelancers alike. I have my three big clients that i really to cough off. During the night i have several other brands or whatever you know writing for magazines or something that i kind of circle around all of those so i think there's something to be said for having an anchor incur something that's very consistent but like i said we've talked about this in the last episode about the poku not making money to begin with and it kind of being <hes> <hes> a big risk to start putting a lot of time and effort into something that i had no idea it was going to anything was going to say that you go but but if the person who asked this as asking the question because your thinking about making the leap from working for a company to being self employed then my advice would beat do it with the guidance of business manager and or an accountant who can help you navigate the complicated stuff like taxes and expenses because all of those things can be really stressful and it's a very steep learning curve and it's the stuff that you have limited if any exposure to when you're working for for someone else and that can be thing that causes stress so my advice to anybody is take control empower yourself know what needs to be where when it needs to be done understand your outgoing your incomings all of that like the best thing you can do for yourself alfred understand all of that and it would be. It's hard to learn on your own sometimes the investment of a business manager or an accountant. He's really the stress relief it offers. This is worth every single penny okay next question another again another working on do you find it easy to motivate yourself as you work from home. Do you get dressed for work etcetera. That's such a question it really is. I have several tactics. I think one of them is definitely putting on makeup because i don't wear makeup. I think they could just go to bed. Yes that's terrible. There's an i really like to exercise birth things so that's like get out of bed. Put on my gym kit gopher walk gopher davina d._v._d. In the living room say d._v._d. Obviously streaming it. Do some yoga and i try to. I try to do something outside because i believe that fresh was great view but essentially anything that gets your blood blood pumping and i find it the best way to start my day but i sometimes wake up and i can tell if my brain's in the right space to get on it whether that's e mail pitching the podcast guests or writing whatever it might be so that's when artist jump on the computer and i will usually honestly discuss go down sort of four or five hours solid working whole and that's when and then i'll think i'll look happen. If i've got on the computer flex six o'clock in the morning on the the corporate around modane ooh you need to just stand up straight. Go for a walk and so i sort of flip the day and or exercise whatever it might be. That's always going to working from home day but i try to make sure they'll i'm out about recording having meetings excetera uh no more than three days a week they can be busy days could be full days. They can be a mixture of meetings with podcasting of socializing but i'd like my days away from the home office to be really productive and to be meaningful so i hated if i ever go into town and say the day four through which can often happen and you end up going in for one appointment. The call i get really agitated feels like a bit of a it just feels like it expensive way to do business. Go in for one meeting and then come straight home even on days like that. I still try to excise beforehand but if there's just no time than planned the day so i can walk between appointments and you'd be surprised how easy it is to clock up twenty thousand steps steps when you don't take public transport in london so yeah that's that's one of my tactics sort of still do work but also be active. You've a lot of my friends over the years of surge <hes> that they couldn't go for lawns. They wouldn't be able to motivate myself and my reply employers is you'd be surprised how motivating how motivating is wants the bills start coming in and i think you just have to trust yourself that you you. You can do it because he will do it. You know you will do the work you will put in the effort and you have to have faith in your talent in your abilities and what you are able to offer <hes> <hes>. Do you find easy to motivate yourself well another. The next question is any advice on how to promote yourself and your skills when you're lucky and confidence. I'm feeling like an impostor and as long time listeners will know i was diagnosed with anxiety and depression while i was freelancing in the early days of the pokhara is about six months into the post starting and if i think back to those days i moved so much slower and we're so <hes> i did napa napa lot just had no. I couldn't stand up straight. I was very heavy and very slow moving and it so it's a difficult one for me because it was not difficult for me. It's it's when my confidence was low and i was clawing cloyne my way away from anxiety and depression i definitely undersold myself and gave off zero confidence and i can definitely think of instances where so i felt that was taken advantage of where i felt that i was seen as a pushover -ocial come down on price or she desperately that and that doesn't feel good to think about what it back on but my advice is not to deal with the ability to sell yourself but to do some work like to take a step back and the bigger picture and do some work on your confidence overrule and then the rest will come so for me i saw an amazing therapist working with ho was transformational them very profound and i definitely saw the way i spoke and thought about myself change with her help so i guess what i'm trying to say is had i gone right. I need to go to this meeting. Smash russia pounded for espresso before i went in. It's highly likely i could have crumbled either during the meeting or immediately afterwards but it was about building muscles so that i could deal with that sort of stuff and for me that was in therapy that was the thing that meant i could handle other situations and in some cases not taking the risk and saying i don't wanna work with you anymore because this dynamic socks and if you want my skills then you not only have to pay for them but you have to respect me tweet me with respect and if that's not possible if you do then do that then cea and i know that's a risk but in my experience and i can only share my experience friends and also the experience of my guess guess of said this. I ended up coming to the conclusion that those bad work. Environments is so draining and those people feel taking taking it volunteer. You're really taking the mecca of you. Whether that's a boss or a client they can really pull you down really patty so i honestly think that if you are table to free yourself from a bad situation then something else will come along and fill that space and not just by magic is not just like oh. I'll leave that job in another one fall into my lap not by magic but because you've put in the ground wet beforehand for years or however long because you'll get what you do think it's about having faith in your abilities and your you yet in you a couple of years ago. This happened to me and i remember going into war on the train into this office. Am i dozed off always a sign sign. If i doze off on the way to a meeting i can sleep. I can sleep on any public transport any kind of transport. It's a skill but i remember dozing off from the train on the way into london and waking up with a bolt with a real shock and this thing king your spending so much much time thinking about this shitty job and you're spending so much time in your head thinking about why this is such a shitty situation that you might not actually see a really great opportunity that could potentially fall into your lap because your brain is so focused on this other stuff like this office politics going on portects not going where you want it to be so train got in to the office and i wouldn't quit and i know that sounds very cavalier and i'm not advocating higher-risk excluding we all have to pay and we all security is a great thing and sometimes we do have to hunker down and get on with it but i think in answer to the question <unk> of advice on how to promote yourself and your skills when you're lacking in confidence i do think it's about building those muscles and i do think part of it is about if if you feel that your in a crappy situation having the confidence and being able to remove yourself from it so that you will find a better one so. I hope that that's a helpful answer. <hes> we can discuss this more. I do feel like this warrants getting business expo or confidence coach with someone on the po cost. Maybe that's worth exploring in and a bit more detail with an expert or guest. This is a great question. How are you planning for retirement if you all it's on my mind a lot recently having ten forty one well as long time listeners wound i i'm forty one and three quarters and so i was wondering what this question should i be thinking about retirement tenant and i was chatting to a few other friends in the industry about this the other day and i've never even thought about retiring because at this point i i don't want to stop doing what i'm doing but i guess again going back to not having a plan when i started freelancing i think do need to think about a long term plan so that when i do i have something in place and maybe again that's that's rudy good fodder for another episode to get an expert on to actually maybe do a hand holding session step by step of how plan for a time or what retirement should like. Does anyone know. I don't know i i mean yeah. I think retirement next like playing golf bake. All i don't like go. That's when i think of retirement i think about playing golf <hes> eh because because that's something that my father does and it's also something that other people i know who retired many women you retired. Then little menu retired it interesting anyway so again. Maybe that's another episode explore like how does one retire coun- one even retire in the current climate like is not just something that the previous generation was the lost generation to be able to really realistically do it interesting and then in in a similar vein in a similar vein but another question came in from a listener saying i would like to know what plans do you have in the pipeline for the future career wise and and there is quite a lot in the pipeline in the moment but in the main my focus is what about the podcast and partly because i feel this is the show has evolved really nicely. Thanks in large part to you my most excellent listeners so i'm really focusing on bringing more brilliant gas scuppering more useful topics and just creating what i hope is a really useful safe trusted resource so that if you want to find out about the menopause as you think oh this is this is the place i can do it. If you want to find out about body positively you think actually. I think a really good person will gone m._s. Show in all of that so i'm trying to keep the topics buried get really good quality guests on so that's what's happening and you might have noticed if you follow emme on social media which i hit your gums on pretty much everything. I've always thought to doing more video content ponte's. I really enjoy it and i get a lot of beauty related eight questions. Even though i discussed the topics on this podcast my career for the most part has been is a beauty writer and sometimes the questions i get particularly about makeup a much easier to answer via visual medium but i've always thought of doing book reviews on the video on the g._t. Instagram t._v. Which will sometimes be books that featured the author on the show or they might just be a bit of a review so i talked about sarah wilson's book. I make the beautiful and really just trying to keep it very like the pope cost so if there's anything you want to see me do whether it's on the podcast on g._t. Then please do get in touch email me at the beauty polka dot com slide into my d._m.'s. I'ma guns and just tell me what you'd like to see because i do i really do. I have a a spreadsheet. You'd be so impressed. It's quite busy looking spreadsheet. I've got highlights and colors special wants and everything every time i get an email i i literally cut and paste your email. Put it into attack in into cell so that i don't forget it so it might be for example. Somebody's offer focused on pain management for someone who's dealing with chronic pain. I have no idea to begin with that one so i put that in my spreadsheet and then i go out and seek the right kind of guests so that we gotta okay i would say keep your eyes peeled there is there's a lot of winds in the fire water that kind of stuff so then we get another the listener were justice into the po cost with noth- own a tummy 'cause levski. It was brilliant. Do you have any tips going it alone and starting your own business. What was the hardest lesson. I learned and what is the one bit of advice. You think invaluable festival. I'm really glad that you endured that episode time. I really like her and i'm full of admiration for what she achieved with business. She's really really going places crossed and we've we've been chatting actually a bit recently. She was telling me about some things have happened since he's been on the podcast and honestly that women's trajectory is just incredible. She's she's. She's just such a person to hang out with so next time. She's in london. We're gonna go for drinks anyway. I think one of the things that tummy as used to howard bondage is the entrepreneur program by the world bank of scotland and we talked about on the on the episode that she was on because they really nurture not only new businesses but new business owners so they like. I was saying earlier. It's all well and good to have a great idea but it's real easy to trip up at the point of tax for example because you have to learn it for yourself and it's not the easiest but what that program's done is that every time she's come up against any kind of hurdle or barrier they can help they can advise or equally they give you the knowledge before you reach those hurdles so that you know what to expect when they eventually happen i mean businesses very different from mine because she employs people and she has bricks and mortar. She has premises so she has a lot more to deal with in terms uh-huh of the things that she has to be aware of so. I think they've really really helped her with that. So i think any of the i'll put the link to the entrepreneur program in the show notes but i think that's really really brilliant otherwise it's a really steep learning curve and every single person i know who didn't have anyone he was able to hand hold them has said oh god in your second year for you not did this happened that happened and we've kind of learned the hard way by smashing up against a brick wall and don't get me wrong with lot to be said for steep learning curve and making a mistake that you never make again but equally if i go back seven and a half years i would run up up to the royal bank of scotland entrepreneur program knock on the door like i'm dustin hoffman at the end of the graduate and say let me let me and and make them help me there we go yeah. It's it's weird defining one starting your own business. It was peaceful. I used to do this a lot. I think if i'm talking about <unk> invaluable advice i know a lot of people who've done this and i definitely guilty and that's burying your head in the sand when it comes to finances and things like tax and then dealing with it in one go at year end and i'm very organized have always had a why receipts and everything but it meant just hours of inputting and spreadsheets etc etc and i think one of the most empowering thing i've done and anyone can do is take time to find an accountant and basically familiarize myself myself with that side of the business so that's really mytalk piece of advice whether you can get a business manager or an accountant or somebody that you can just get talk through it so so there are no surprises so that you feel that when you do get a letter you're not thinking oh i don't understand so you feel as i said empowered okay moving into health. I want to know how to motivate myself into starting a healthy lifestyle and then a second question but similar uh-huh is how do you stay motivated moated. How do you stay motivated and find the time to keep fit so i think this is when you have the ask yourself why you want to live a healthier lifestyle. Why you want to be healthier you currently feeling as though there are things you can't do because of your health and your fitness level or do you feel that your you want to do it to future. Proof your health. I think a why is incredibly motivating and incredibly helpful and i think it's why why i want to lose a bit of weight. I want to get into a certain dress can is one of those goals that easy to lose sight of because it's slightly woolly and it's not the easiest to to measure and it's if anything it's like what is your goal to east to do and it can be too much pressure. I also think it's really easy to think that being unhealthy looks a certain way and usually the perception is that it looks like someone who had great. Jim gear looks awesome when they work out and drinks protein shakes and the like and the truth what is it doesn't look like that. If you think about food advertising food advertising like food often isn't food and it's got chemicals on in some tall to make it look look. Do you see a will nicer than the real thing they all style than they are inedible and being healthy healthy. If you look at instagram for example you can somebody who looks really really healthy and really really fit unfilled demotivated but actually being healthy can take the form of adding walk around the block to your day four times. A week doesn't have to be extreme. It doesn't have to be suddenly like right from january the first i'm going to go to force being last week and i'm going to do bumps and tom's every afternoon along gonna go for a run in the morning. That's just too much. It's just too much so choosing to activities. We'll eat well are actually a thousand little decisions as alexandra hemsley said when she came on the pause the mountaintop to a significant change so my experience making one big chains like suddenly deciding to go to the gym every day at six a._m. Is just unsustainable but say you decide to stop having sugar in your drinks. That's one tiny decision and additionally you decide to take the long way. Take the long way to work at a at a walk into your commute. That's a tiny decision but they all mountaintop talk. Maybe it's the at lunchtime instead of having lunch l. disco you take a little walk around the block or you. Yeah take a walk around the block about or an and also you decide. Actually i'm going to make sure that i drink a pint of water in the afternoon because i never drink water in the afternoon i drink in the morning and all those little things mount up to a healthy lead iv style and there's not a beautiful set of jim kit in sight so i would say i'd say that's my answer to the idea. You've motivating myself to be healthier and and finding the time to do it. It's like figuring out what it looks like view and if someone he says that's not very healthy actually really is so boroff a question. I get a law at the moment is has the face laser you used. Stop uh-huh your unwanted hair now just to clarify what this means is by face laser. She means the phillips. Lee mayor i appeal the voice of that's intense pulsed light the i use on my patient body hair in order to tweeter would use it and i'm asked law i would say probably oh gosh russian daily at least early on social media is the phillips lee meyer that i've talked about using getting results and the answer is absolutely yes but as i say to everybody only works if you use it consistently and the best way to find out how to use it as why the episode i recorded with dr stephanie williams in collaboration ration- with phillips because she really simplifies how to use it how to get the best results works and i think it's really obvious you turn on you. Do the patch test and then you point and click and you on the bits where you want your hair to be removed. That's obvious but sometimes i think how it works and stephanie explains it really beautifully in that the intense light the light is attracted to the pigment in the hat an if and it been destroys killed weakens the the political so that when a new growth it's not a strong and you have to do that consistently over time until eventually the follicles goes you know what peace out. This is too much like hard work. I'm out offense. She explains it in a fall more technical fashion than i just did but what i'm saying is sometimes understanding the how then makes the application more meaningful. I'll say okay. I understand what i'm doing here. And that's why i need to do it every week or so. It's actually every fortnight but you can set in a lot. I would really advise that if you start using get to set an alarm on your phone so that you get a little alarm every two weeks saying yearning to the euro i._p._l. And it's different here. Everybody's so some people will see see really really good results in eight weeks. Some people who see good results but not as good as the other person in some people my has quite stubborn and when i spoke to stephanie anthony she said that could be because of hormone issues that you've had and i haven't been consistent with a recently so i need to get back on it but actually one of the reasons. I've been a bit scared about using it is because it's been so hot in the u._k. And it's been so this one has been so strong and it obviously sensiti it sends twice as your skin and you don't really supposed to go in the sun when you're doing it particularly professional treatment so i'm backing off and i will get back into it now that it's slightly gloomier it's ugly me. It was a beautiful day. Today did rain a bit but it was beautiful at some point in the debate cloudy anyway so the key is consistency assistant see and if you really are interested. I know that the phillips is a considered purchase. It's not inexpensive but when you compare it to getting solemn treatments and clinic treatments etc. It really is good value but the thing that you're you're. You're not paying for with the louima. Is somebody stood for you so you have have to be really strict with yourself and say you know what every other every other monday evening a._p._m. Gonna watch such and such a show. I'm gonna what town to get away with murder and do my my legs and do my underarms you have to you have to think about it like that and you have to make it quite rigid commitment and that's when you will begin to see results and stephanie things that brilliant in episode two in the show notes another beauty question. What is your favorite foundation. I'm sick and tired of buying foundations and being being disappointed and having beauty bag full of not even half used bottles. I'm never going to go near again. That is frustrating. That is frustrating. It really depends what your desired finishes. Do you want a jewish glory. Finish a matt full coverage of billable medium coverage bridge. Do you stick fluid powder mineral tinted moisturizers. It really depends on the finish that you like and i'm publishing this episode in september two thousand the nineteen and i am currently doing a series it by d._t._b.'s. I review foundations because right now dozens of foundations launching every single day. I'm getting an email saying such such abroad is launching a new foundation falen forty shades. I think he's been really responsible for people realizing they need to broaden the shade range and befall more inclusive. Thank you very much about time and so lots of browns are coming out with more <hes> shades and more more variants varieties more finishes etc so i'm doing a series of white. T._v. started off with the charlotte toby airbrush flawless foundation so if you can see all of that really pleased you head over to instagram where i'm at amazon's looking but i would say if you like these are my personal preferences. If you like light to medium coverage with a jewish finished so something that could pass as your own skin just better. I personally love mcface mcface embodying and i think that's a good value foundation for the quality of product i loved charlotte's aubrey knight foundation and i've recently started using the surat dude drew you do drop foundation and i think all three of those are absolutely excellent. The sarah is not inexpensive it seventy eighty pounds so considered purchase but it is very very very very good so seventy pounds doesn't make you blush or get eh hot in the back of your neck then tried out but if it does definitely still yourself towards the mcface importing if you like build ables medium coverage than i've live just started using the milk makeup flex foundation and think it's great and i actually tried the profile to hydrating foundation and it's really really lovely really lovely. Actually it's long where as long when it's really really good <hes> i also really right the bobby brown foundation stick and the skin foundation both those formulas are really really excellent very blundell very skin true. They look very flattering. They put the tones in make your skin again. Just look like really healthy really healthy version of your own skin especially. If you get columbine listened to the episode with amy conway from a few weeks ago she wanted wanted that bobby brown senior michael night she bobby brown pro makeup artists and she talks about color matching and getting the right shade and the benefits a <hes> of color matching and so i think we basically will be saying that sometimes it's tempting to go a couple of shades darker or a little bit darker but actually it doesn't look skin true in your skin wachner says good so listen to the episode if you want to find out about matching because i think her advice bureau if you want a full coverage foundation that does not budge more. You'll probably already wearing estee estate order double wear foundation because i think it's probably i think it's still something every four seconds around the world. It's the biggest selling foundation foundation globally. It's just it's loved and people who use it absolutely adore but i've also got a lot of time for charlotte till airbrush florida's foundation. If you want claim to finish i think that is very similar in proposition so if you're a big fan of estee lauder double where funds to get rid of a change but seeing you bought the new makeup bag give this i be interested to know what do you think of the show that told me airbrush pluralist an equally if you haven't tried a full coverage but it's something that you want then either. Those are really really excellent choices again hannah's. I said the charlotte viewed on my personal. Preference is i said the kind of foundational i wear all the time is kind of light to medium coverage wjr and then let's not forget share coverage where you just want something that'll run. Pop your skin and then you probably use a little bit of concealed and for me personally the body shop instagram bright c._c. Cream oughta leap brilliant. I use the peachy glow which is peachy but that's also bright which is sort of lilac and you can wear a loan on on the foundation and it does a lovely job. It's a truly excellent <unk> product and also has an s._p._f. Of twenty i also quite like the chanel water tint foundation but again. It's a high priced product. I think the body shot one is under fifteen pounds was great is obsolete granted loss ages. I suffer into my skin the peachy glow sometimes and then just correct or use a bit of considering the my eyes and i find that that's all i need a <hes> particularly if my skin's not playing it really is at the moment so it's medium coverage all the way another question. I started to follow beauty on social media media after listening to your podcast. You should be following. This is such a great question. Will i'm delighted that your now <hes> following beauty stuff on social after listening to the show. That's it's lovely to hear okay skin-care. I'm gonna go with people who talk about skin care or the brand you should follow so for skin care has to be carolina line and dean caroline high winds and a dean but let me do they have great content and they really do like a caroline's website. Blog is absolutely brilliant had cheat sheets on things acids and retinal are unmissable if your beauty or if you just want to really build a good b._t. Regime but both carolina nadine off excellent at answering questions personally and responding to comments so whether that on instagram or in facebook groups they really good actually caroline's brilliant in how facebook group the dean is excellent on youtube and instagram getting by people so i would really recommend that and i <music> i whenever i hung out with the team should always be like oh someone's just d._m. Me a picture of the skin hang on. I just need a couple of minutes to get back to them about what they need to be using so they are really really good that accident resources if especially if you feel a bit confused abused about what's going on in terms of oh i've i've just seen that there's a new product launching and apparently i need this but why is it better than what i'm using. They're very good at addressing newness munis in the landscape of what already exists someone. I really love following on social who has a really good mixture of content. Whether it's beauty lifestyle viewed etcetera tre is anna newton so the naroda and she's also just a brilliant person she liked. I knew ever meet if i had had a child. I would want her to have grown up to be like like ana and then when i see sometimes i'm like i want you to be my little sister. She's just very very nice decent human being and she even did a brilliant post recently recently had blogs incredible unused. That's pretty good where it's your how to budget for mortgage and things like that and how book <hes> the annarita is. Is it quickly underwriter think wrong. It's in the other room account. Look at the spine anyway. Hub book is absolutely brilliant so i really highly recommend all of anna's content beyond a sign up for newsletter. Do everything everything for makeup tutorials. I cannot sit here and not mention sam chapman in nick they are so good i mesmerized asmara's but all of that content and i were talking this week about how every time sam posted pictures on instagram. We just want to wolf attic. She's just so gorgeous and nick guest today did a video doing cocky makeup and i watched it twice whilst eating a meal i cooked from her husband's recipe book which made me feel like a stalker and then when i went back to clean the kitchen and put my feet away it said underneath the recipe. This is my wife's favorite meal and i thought okay so i've watched her video twas twice while while eating a meal the union has designed that she loves that gonna put up restraining order out. I didn't mean to be there. Just brilliant brilliant content and content and makeup tutorials are just so good. I have learned and i learned so much from every single one that they do even if it's just they just full of all the most amazing tip so i really highly recommend them then there's mickey makeup. I know a lot of people in the facebook group love watching her insta- stories on a sunday where she will hoodoo a step-by-step during someone's makeup and it's unbelievably mesmerizing and hit hypnotize. It's just absolutely british. Her makeup is incredible credible and she's just done this week victoria from fro she did her wedding makeup and victoria looked unbelievable so she's just a hugely talented makeup boston. We need light nicky as well. She's done some beautiful stuff on unac- steiner actually as well then italy supporter dixon who who is like the chaotic beauty makeup artist because she's like why you do this do that. I love i love ampules for that reason and hannah martin everytime she is doing a live or doing stories. We're doing her makeup. I'm just always like fine dribbling because i just want to get a little bit closer to the screen so if you like makeup tools than those in my my absolute favorites he also author of makeup tutorials. There were so many but those are the ones. I'm stopping acts the with all literally going forty five minutes for fashion n._b._c. I think she's she's waited more with b._t. But alex stein i enjoy her and she's been on the show before i love alex light and she's got a great mix of beauty with fashion with lifestyle and main subject. She's been on the podcast talking about it. Body pose a tippety and really talking about coming back from harry eating disorder and the she's really good at putting content out that to make you realize that you are constantly constantly being bombarded with some pretty noxious messages and she just keeps it very well. I think she's got a beautiful tone. I think she talks about the body positively movement in aridi intelligent way not in a it's gonna sound terrible body way in a very coin in a very intelligent way. I really like how she talks about. So so there's people that i would recommend just about who else am i forgetting somebody recre- i'd recommend the follow i'd recommend in the fall elite pebbles especially if you are an expectant or new mom because she's got a lot of content up there at the moment around baby gray and it's really sweet and i'm not l. A. parent expectant parent but i find high content around gray and like stuff to do with the interiors in the nursery at just find find it. I find it really watchable and there are loads of people. I'm definitely forgetting people. Maybe we'll do a whole episode on or this is a great question any good books for people who aren't book lovers but want to read more and i really thought about this 'cause. I thought oh gosh well. Reading reading is so subjective and the topics that you enjoy all so personal to you sometimes and i could say dan brown. Dan brown's the davinci code because let's face is it. That's a that's a real page turner. That is designed. He's done a brilliant course on master clause where he talks about how to write that kind of <hes> fiction and it's balmy laic stopped the chapter like this hook them in like this and then end the end the chapter so that the reader wants to read the beginning of next to it was very formulaic but i thought okay okay that aside. What would i recommend to somebody who wants to get into reading more but and i'm very much like this and i find every time i've had a bit the law and i haven't been reading. I have to read an autobiography so finding someone that you really really like or want to know more about so at the moment i've got <unk> but reynolds autobiography on in my pending pile and i was i couldn't help myself i have any border on audible on audible partly because he reads it produces lucidity corey feldman autobiography and it's called choreography alone made me use one of my audible tokens disrespect. I just respected the play on words that are really really enjoyed that so yes and if you want to start with an autobiography i really highly recommend pasta pathak by jim collins. She's an excellent writer. I think she's written all of her autobiographies because she doesn't just have one and it's so so good. She's such a good way to say. Yes find somebody that you really really like. He was written an autobiography orphee and sometimes hard to tell if they've used a ghostwriter another really good one. If you like rock music i know a lot of people listening to this podcast with very very excited about all of the rock radio links was sharing on social recently which are saved the highlights incident anthony kiedis autobiography he did write it with a rolling stone journalist but that's a really interesting. It's kind of it's pretty rule but it's very detailed. That's a really interesting what's <unk> fame and he says i i do have michelle obama's on why reading pile and i keep wanting to start it but like many books that i'm reading at the moment podcast gas and for future topics that but i keep thinking i don't want to dip in and out but i just want to gorge on that one another person to and i'm sorry i keep talking about an newton. She's really good at sharing the books that she's reading eating and she reads a lot so if you're not sure and you want a bit of inspirational so check out her fade but i would start with a biography or just something that you have a passionate about even if it's i dunno even if it's a book on creative writing. I've got a book on creative writing that. I read in a day on a bench outside because i was like i really wanted to read this. It's not very long. Sometimes it's about quick wins so maybe find a short little book that you can. You know that you'll get through really quickly. How many times a week do you work out and then this is a brilliant quest supplementary question. Are you seeing results so i try to do something active every single day and bats being brutally honest with myself with you. I felt as though i needed to revisit all of this after i had don't laura biceps on the shy laura hawkins on the show because i've i've always known that it would be good that it's good good for me to walk out every day but i would be. I am one of those people who says i don't really see results and i was chatting to hear about it the other day. I'm just trying to scroll scroll through my messages because i've had a bit of a break from exercise a recently and what did she say that was pretty is i've realized after i when i was reading. I realized that i've been moving and exercising without any agenda without any specific goal. I've just been going if iran i they will lose weight. If i run. My cool will be a bit tighter if i run. My legs will be stronger but it's all very willie. There's nothing to find. She came back to me and she said this which i thought was really interesting. Random random movement and exercise is just energy expenditure tiring ourselves out doesn't help us. We want to build strong foundations and improve and improve bob body composition so moving forward. I want to try and have a plan so that i can see results whether it's just that i noticed that my cardiovascular fitness improves whether i see a bit more definition my legs my legs are load bearing lumpy undefined legs and i would love to see a cough off muscle pop through a little bit of the fifa minimise so i think i keep healthy. I think i i exercise a lot but i it's that realization. When i was reading a book. Actually you know getting. You're not getting any kind of results. Which is kind of doing it hoping that you think that if you go for a one four to five times a week that you're going to look great but actually you have to have a bit more of an agenda so in all still question twice do something every day i try to so on days. When i rest. I would still walk but i tried to get my heart rate up for over one hundred thirty p._m. For thirty minutes or more at least forty five time four to five times a week. I think is fair but yes in terms of seeing results. That's a great part of the question and the answer is. It's obviously not doing me any harm but it's not i'm not measuring and that's something that i need to start doing so watch this space because i'm going to get lower back on the show due to talk about fitness and getting results in the gym so we can have a bit more about that and hopefully be able to share some results on social media tips for starting to look for a job. I'm freshly out of school and berry lost and i want to work in peel. I can't even imagine it must be what it must be like now to try and look for a job because the landscape is so so different from how it was for me when i left university twenty years ago now now gosh i'm old so i thought long and hard about how to answer. They're going to do some research and come up with some wants lights and actually i think the most useful thing i can do for anybody who's in this situation or for anybody who knows somebody in this situation is to get a careers advisor on ought to get somebody who who specializes in dealing with graduates or dealing with people going into the workplace for the first time and the advice that they recommend so this is really just me saying please watch this space because i think me doing some research and sharing links with you could potentially really be helpful but i think the thing that will be most helpful having somebody who deals with this every day who understands how to steer you toward the career area path that you want because i literally have no idea and i wouldn't know where to begin and i wouldn't want to see you in the wrong direction so let's do the right thing and stay in the white one so i will get an expert on for that and that really does bring me to the end of the osman thing but what i would say is if you have any any questions on i know we want to lock tickly career in this particular in these two osmena things please get in touch but more importantly if there were topics topics or areas that you feel you really want to know more about whether it's health whether it's fitness whether it's career whether it's beauty whether it's business i if there are any topics that you feel you want to know you want to learn more about a google. Search isn't giving you what you want. Then let me know because i will find an expert and i will get them on and i will get them to provide. I will hopefully have a conversation with them. That will be helpful resource. We saw in order to do that amami on the beauty podcast dot com. Please go into my d._m.'s on social media. I'm amazon's on instagram and twitter or you can always have the option to join that facebook expert group the link to join. We'll be in the show notes and that facebook group. Please answer the three questions that multiple choice. You just have to click the options but if you don't answer all three questions of strict policy won't let you in so please just answer the questions. That's all i'm asking and you can join thousands of other listeners of the show in that group. They're really supportive and helpful which other obviously they're excellent than women minus knows my most excellent listener so please do go in there but just keep in touch and if i'm going to ask one final thing of you. We'll be to have two things. One is if you enjoy the show and you haven't yet. I'd be delighted if you could share it with your friends. Just tell tell people about it and get them listening. That would be really kind of you or you can always leave or if you if you have the option. I'd be so grateful. It really does help apoe cost like my mind stand on these massive platforms so if you get the option to leave a five star review or a couple of sentences about what you enjoy about the show i would be i would. It'd be so grateful for that support. Thank you so much for your questions. Thank you so much for listening. Please do get in touch. The show is all about you even in this episode of torture lot about my experience but this show is all about you and about providing you with information resources and payment that you will find useful helpful or just plain distracting. I am delighted to spend time with the thank you so much. I will see you on the next one.