20 Episode results for "Wizards"

Trailer: Head in the Game

Head In The Game

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Trailer: Head in the Game

"Why have you highlighted, thanks? So I can see where I start speaking. And you start speaking just wear glasses. You can see I have losses. I want to see me with them on. This is the beginning of our first podcast. You know, everyone's going to switch off dot speaking case. I'm here we gay. ESPN head in the game. This is having the game. You'll crush course to one of the weeks major sporting events. My name is Jamie, laying in alongside is actor comedian and writer, Alex loan. Now this week we're all about basketball with the NBA showdown between the New York Knicks and the Washington Wizards at the to this coming Thursday who better to get the ball into court than ESPN's in Begley next. Bagley. Please leave a message, and I'll call you bad just gonna leave him a voicemail. This is Jamie, laying speaking you probably know mule ready from made in Chelsea bake off won a BAFTA. Oh, hello. Hello. Hi, ian. Yes, we go to couple of questions for you. Because you're the expert in basketball. Why do we think the Knicks on quite the potent force? They used to be it's been a series of mismanagement with the row, and buddy. Listen, stay with us, man. Because I think you're going to be fascinated by our history of basketball in forty five seconds. We have a fan on the line right now. Nick, one is the New York Knicks John D verbs de birds. It's quite repetitive. Hey, Rebecca, you're a huge wizards fan. What is the wizards rap whenever somebody makes a three point shot, the announcer will yell DC. Three and we all will put our fingers up with three fingers. Do you want to hear the mix? Jaunt d-. Oh my gosh. That's horrible. I think it's time for a quick fire quiz. It's the head and the game quiz round one true, false true. It is definitely round one nineteen seventy eight NBA star Clifford Ray saved a dolphins. Life by retrieving. A screw the Delvin. It swallow true and went out with five thousand six hundred seventy three points as Jamie has nine points. So that's all we have time for this. All we have time for this week. If you haven't got courtside seats for the game, don't or you can't watch highlights on the ESPN app. Join us next week. We'll be getting up close and personal with another sporting event until then keep your head in the game. ESPN head in the game.

New York Knicks Washington Wizards ESPN basketball Alex loan NBA Bagley wizards Clifford Ray Begley writer Rebecca Nick John D forty five seconds
On-Demand Auction House

The Frazley Report - Your Weekly World of Warcraft News

01:08 min | 1 year ago

On-Demand Auction House

"Hi this is rather the France report so I've got some quick breaking news. Icy means reports that Blizzard has said the Mighty Caravan British or the Mount has done auctioneer and had the price of five million. Gold will be going away in the shadowlands. Now Wizards said it. We'll be part of the black market auction house but we have found out the real reason. Why is this is to launch a new APP. Coat Uber Auction so needed Oxygen House. Open open up the APP and you will see the nearest for the commercial review. Now fees are maybe a thousand gold for ten minutes so definitely only uses when you absolutely cannot make it took place when you're harsh on who down. There's no word yet why they did this. But the good thing is now. If you have one of these producers you'll soon be raking in the gold. That is an Uber victory. This show is brought to you by. I couldn't find more had dragon powered studio dot com.

Oxygen House Blizzard Wizards France ten minutes
11 Trivia Questions on Wizards

Trivia With Budds

19:35 min | 1 year ago

11 Trivia Questions on Wizards

"It's eleven trivia, questions on wizards from the sword in the stone to Harry Potter. We got you covered. This is trivia would buds. Be and welcome to another episode of the trivia with buds podcast. I'm your host Ryan buds. Thanks. Checking out this show, which comes out every single day. Thanks to patriot subscribers like you. There's thirty one you listening and thank you so much for your monthly support. I appreciate it. And it helps me do this thing fulltime and every single day. So thanks for being a part of it. If you want to jump on the patriot train, if you wanna get free stuff sent to your house in the mail. Let me know we're doing a special offer the whole month of June for all new patriots scribes that join at five dollars or more. Those people will get a welcome packed to kick off summer, including a sticker a pen and a signed shark NATO headshot for me to you all June long. So if you've been listening for a little bit, and you're like, you know what I think I throw five bucks towards this show. I listened to it enough. It entertains me enough on a daily basis than hop on in that personalized shark NATO had. Shot. That's an eight by ten in me screaming in on a beach with my leg seemingly missing covered in blood, it's pretty great. It's a shark NATO beach victim. Number one, and say something funny on it just for you. So I'll sign that Senate to you, and you'll get a trivia with buds pin took a two and a half inch size pin two a quarter size inch and it says the trivial buds logo, and you'll get a sticker that has the trivia with buds podcast. Art work on it. So I'll send all three of those things to you pronto and you'll be in the patriot reward tiers. So you'll get to pick a topic that I am bound to do every single month just for you with big patriots subscriber spreadsheet. And you can add your topic to that spreadsheet at anytime, I usually do about three months in advance. If you have some topics you want me to do in the next few months, we could fill them all in. That's part of the five dollar level. You also get a postcard in the mail for the rest of June before we switch up the rewards for July and you will get a access. To the discord app chat, that we use every single day to post different questions in and Luke mckay's pretty active in their hill. Posts in different little conundrums for you, and it's just a great little community for people that love pop culture, trivia, so again, July rewards coming up in this special offer to get those three bonus items are coming up right now the whole month of June. So being the lookout for that stuff. This episode today is all about wizards. And I thought it'd be fun to read. You a quick rancor article about the top fifteen wizards of all time. So this is rancor. It's a website where you can vote on different things and people voted on their favorite wizards. The number one wizard on this site is Gandalf Gandalf from Lord of the rings and the movies and books and things like that, number two is Merlin from king Arthur's, court, and things like that, number three is professor Albus Dumbledore, who could forget Dumbledore from the Harry Potter world. Then we have Harry Potter himself. He's at number four professor snipe at number five series. Black at number six Lord voldemort at number seven and lupin at number eight. And then we have Sahra main from Lord of the rings at number nine Ron Weasley at number ten Jeff far and he's a wizard. Number eleven emperor Palpa team wizard. I guess he is some sort of Jeddah ish type way twelve. Number twelve Melissa number thirteen Tana. I don't know who that is. I'm going to click on it real quick. It says superhero, she's from DC hawk man number four. Never heard of her's Atanta. And then we had fourteen Neville, Longbottom never Longbottom really the best wizards of all time, Neville, come on. And number fifteen Drako Malfoy. So those are some wizards for you. According to this rancor website, they're mostly Harry Potter characters, but I would probably have to disagree. I know people love Sirius black. I feel people like serious black in the same way that they like Boba fett in the storage university like he's just kind of cool, and you didn't know that much about him. He's very allusive and things. But I've never. A huge Boba fett fan, and I've never been a huge series black fan. I don't remember him doing that much in the movies. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I just forgot if you are a serious black fan, let me know why in an Email Ryan buds gmaiLcom out of you have been emailing me lately. And man, I love getting those emails, thank you so much for the support and the comradery that goes into sending an old fashioned Email. I just got one from Amy Donald Donaldson. Amy Donald Donaldson. I said it wrong twice. She said, hey, I've heard about your trivia nights from friends of mine, and they talk about how great they are. I was wondering if you'd be possible. It would be possible to start doing a trivia night in Long Beach, California. I'd be willing to help it. Anyway. I am able. And then, so I said, hey, do you run a location? You want trivia, and Long Beach, or you just wanna play somewhere down there with me. And she said, thanks for the quick reply, I don't run anything. I was hoping to ask and help you get started down here. So that's really cool. That's a very nice Email to get thank you, Amy. If you listen to the show, very cool of you to offer to do that. And maybe we'll get something going. Long Beach my daughter screaming as she runs outside the window where I'm recording through the sprinkler. So if you hear that, that's what that is. She's not being attacked. Alright. These questions were recorded RT Rogers brewing, Sierra Madre, California, as I was doing a Facebook livestream video of the questions so you can listen to these play along, and I will come back after that, with the answers reported dislike this, because I did not record the answers on the livestream video. So we're gonna jump into those questions right now. Here we go. Trivia buds RT Rogers. We've got ribs and if you're hungry, and we're also live streaming this first round, they people wanna play along. And with the answers where RT Rogers ruin in Sierra Madre. Now -fornia to I ran about wizards right now. You're right on the answers to these wizardy question. The big rules, don't use cellphones. Don't yell stuff out and the fun team. Name of your team name all night long at the top of your answer sheets. And you're gonna write down the answers to eleven questions that are very wizardy at the end of each tear off your answer sheet bring up to me how scored up and we'll see how everybody's doing this round number one. You guys ready to place in Libya. Moderate. Yes. Round. Number one question. One for wizards. What is the name of the wizard in Disney's the sword and the stone? Number one, what is the name of the wizard in Disney's the sword and the stone never one wizard trivia, number one, shot people watching and playing along online pooper, Bruce fickle junior? Kamran Malla door just found Unted with the answer on Facebook. If Cam was here, he would know. Number one with the name of the wizard in Disney's the sword and the stone of a one number one, right, down taking number one. RT Rogers ruined Sierra Madre, California. Thanks playing trivia, every Thursday, eight to ten pm, speaking, wizards tomorrow. Harry Potter Trudy, a hundred tickets soul out atlassian brewing off would be one and give a ton of wizardy rises. If you love this round here comes question. Number two, Donna Herbert was the host of a kid's science show from nineteen fifty one of nineteen sixty five but he went by what other name. What was the name of this show? Number two done. Herbert was the host of the kids science show from nineteen fifty one to sixty five when he went by what other name, what do you think? What do you think? Shout out. You Sean Jones watch live. What's up? A wave there. It is. What do you think? Number two, John Herbert was the host of the Kate science show from fifty one sixty five went by what other name number two. Number two down. Number two. I'm drinking the happen wise in years, gold, spinners can rising, very good stuff shot, how to Luke Manno and daddy Richter, who are playing along never to done Herber show. Number three, what is had ribs dog's name in the world of Harry Potter. Number three. What is hag ribs, dog's name in the world of Harry Potter? Somebody role mismatch Zine, whatever I thought that was a sick for ever. Heat. Joe, if you write that number three what is aggregate dog's name in the world of Harry Potter? Number three. Prizes. I heard somebody say what's Potter? That's always fun. We're giving voltron bug from the classic series voltron. It's pretty sweet given that away tonight. We're all sitting in, Rick and Morty MAC. Mitsu. Second and third place prizes. Written, Warri magnets, first place. We'll get something like a Archie Rogers gift card, come back in Cardi with us. I gain your comes number four. How do you spell the famous wizards name from Lord of the rings play by Ian mcallen before these failure mccown's characters? And they got to sell this correctly, usually doesn't really count as long as you're close with this one. We're looking for the exact selling number four number four. Exciting times. It's era Madria. If you like ribs, impetuses you're in lock combo is available on the patio and we're playing tribute here today. They have about five team five bigger teams kind of a quieter week, we've Memorial Day on Monday, but thanks for hanging out. Tampa Palo from Australia is playing Creighton Rothenberger, fabulous street writer, just jumped in and Ben tenors here. Thanks for watching long, everybody. I'm your host Ryan butts. You're playing trivia, buds artsy Rogers brewing company. Number four, how you spell the wizards named Lord of the rings played by Ian McKellen number five I'm the wiz. Nobody beats me is a slogan found out. What sitcom I'm the wiz, nobody beats me is Logan found what sitcom number five. Number five, I'm the wiz. Nobody beats me is a slogan found out what sitcom number five. Number five, five. Movies wanted his fallen fallen the writer of those movies is watching this video right now. Creighton. Everyone lives saying. Hi. Creighton on three ready. One-two-three. How's it going by number five the ways, nobody beats is this? Logan. What sitcom? What are we talking about? Number five number five. Danny Richter's played along online answers. Right. And center is incorrect with his answer number six who wrote the wizard of Oz who is the author of the book the wizard about never six just need the last name here. Number six. No. You'll be banned trivia, number six. I will give you a little smiley face. Maybe a half a point number six who wrote the wizard of is number six number six. Thanks for playing guys. Her says he loves the ellipse and wanted his movies. There's a new one coming out the name escapes me but create with you're still watching. Check it out of leaving comments header says, I will the number six wizard of Oz. Your number seventy evil wizard cannon could be what original intendo game number seven the evil wizard. Gaining could be on what regional then ten days, number seven wizards. Number seven number seven metric bag didn't hear. What's up Cam? If you're still watching. Is Santa Claus a wizard question for you number seven number said. Ganic original Nintendo game number seven number seven. Trivia, trivia, trivia, every Thursday here and Archie Rogers, and every day on my podcast out the trivia with buds pass wherever found district shooting and click on my face. It's the only daily trivia podcasts, and we're coming up on one year of doing it every day, three hundred sixty five in a row number seven wizard Gannon never aid for how many years did Michael Jordan play with the Washington Wizards. How many years do Michael Jordan plant? The Washington Wizards. We got people later back there. Dress for people don't you people? A few people players good bottle you play baseball. Michael jordan. How many years Michael Jordan play with the Washington Wizards? What do you what do you think number eight number eight? Truly attributed trivia number eight. RT Rogers, lots of fun to be at zero moderate. If you're hungry ribs on the patio number nine, what four letter word means wizard in Spanish, what four letter word means wizard in Spanish, now, there's another word that means which, and I don't think it's four letters, a lot of people have been writing this week. You guys have the advantage of me, telling you, that it's not the word that needs which. Four lex overnight, and this is very quickly like how do you say wizard Spanish, Google search result number? What do you think? Number nine four letter word means wizard in Spanish, number nine. If you have the beer here, like home, a growl of it, they got some awesome, Bradley Archie Rogers. You'd have some beers at home. This run on wizards. Number ten what network aired the wizards of Waverly place. Number ten what network aired the wizards of Waverly place number ten number ten, what do you think? And then tenor actually playing along in the comments, she number what network air, the wizards of Waverly place. Never never. One question left. It's worth two points on this first roundabout wizardy stuff your point question in what month is Harry Potters birthday it. What month is Harry Potters birthday a little preview to a bunch of Harry Potter trivia, tomorrow. If you're watching live, I will be recording all those Trudy around five or six Harry Potter trivia, rounds offer those in reeks of your question around one wizards for lights in what month. That's Harry Potters birthday, that is round number one. Any repeats around number one. And he here again. Nine again with four letter word means wizard in Spanish, any other, what's number six who wrote the wizard of Oz any otherwise. Number five was on the wiz. Nobody beats me is slow what sitcom. All right, guys. Thanks for plant turn it those answer sheets when you're done Facebook. Thanks for watching and playing along live look for the next video in just a second. I'm gonna end this and come back with the answers ships. And here we are with the answers. I hope you enjoyed that Facebook livestream video audio and here come the answers for the wizards round. Let's see how you did question. Number one. What was the name of the wizard in Disney's the sword in the stone? That was, of course Merlin. He wears that blue robe and hat. He's got that I will name. I will forget, number one Merlin number down. Herbert was the host of a kid science show from nineteen fifty one to sixty five and went by the name mister wizard. Remember watching reruns of that, as a kid mister wizard the first, Bill Nye, the science guy, for my generation, number three, what is had Doug's name in the world of Harry Potter FANG, was the answer. Fang number four. How do you spell the famous white-bearded wizards name from Lord of the rings play by Ian McKellen Gandalf? D. A L F number five, I'm the wiz. Nobody beats me is a slogan fun of what sitcom. That'd be Seinfeld. Seinfeld. And the actor who plays the wiz was also on. Adventures of Pete and Pete, and he plays Jamie Lee. Curtis is son in law. I guess, in the new Halloween movie, which was not so great in my opinion. That was Seinfeld. I'm the wiz number six who wrote the wizard of Oz l Frank bomb the as long as you put bomb? You're good number seven, the evil wizard Gannon could be what original Nintendo game, the legend of Zelda excited for the news L coming out for switch. That's a remake of link to the link to the past link's, awakening from GameBoy. That'll be awesome number eight for how many years Michael Jordan play with the Washington Wizards. We're looking at two years for j on that team in the early two thousands, number nine what four letter word means wizard in Spanish Mago Mago. And number ten what network air the wizards of Waverly place. The Disney channel I've never seen it. But I think I rented a movie for Annabel and she liked it a wizards of Waverly place on the dizzy channel for two points. And what month is Harry Potters birthday. It was July thirty first, my sister has the same. Birthday in those are your wizard questions. Thanks so much for listening and playing along everybody, hopefully, yet, a fun time with this episode, and I will be doing more live streams and videos and things like that. I just raced my phone, so I got a lot of space to do some fun stuff. Today's question of the day is brought to you by funky monkey printing. They do designs out of sandy, miss California. You can go to FM designs, Inc dot com, and check out funky monkey designs and get started right away on their website. They do embroidery and they specialize in very cool. Letterman jackets and things like that. So if, if you need anything that is Letterman varsity jacket related check them out again. That is funky monkey designs Inc for city jackets printing, and embroidery, imported from sandy miss California that question of the day is as follow. What is Nevels last name in the world of Harry Potter, I mentioned, it earlier on this podcast in that ranking website. Was reading. And maybe if Neville's last name, you can tweet it to me, at Ryan, buds on Twitter are why NBC DDS, you can also Email me that answer Ryan buds, gmaiLcom. And I'll pick one person who sends the right answer, and give them a prize. So check it out. And if you love Neville, that'll be an easy one for you. Okay. Guys. That's it for today's episode. Thank you so much for listening. Thanks for telling a friend, and we'll see you tomorrow for more trivia with buds. Cheers.

wizards Harry Potter Washington Wizards Archie Rogers Michael jordan California Disney Harry Potter Trudy Ryan buds Harry Potters Facebook Neville Waverly place Ian McKellen Donna Herbert NATO Nintendo John Herbert Logan Senate
Episode 193: Free Wanting (Frankfurt's "Freedom of the Will and the Concept of a Person")

Very Bad Wizards

1:28:15 hr | 3 months ago

Episode 193: Free Wanting (Frankfurt's "Freedom of the Will and the Concept of a Person")

"Very bad wizards is a podcast with philosopher. My Dad and psychologist Dave Pissarro having an informal discussion about issues and signs and ethics. Please note the discussion contains bad words that I'm glad to say and knowing my dad some very inappropriate jokes magician a wizard. Plan. Than you. Can have. Very! Very good man just to say bad. Welcome to very bad wizards. I'm Taylor. Summers from the University of Houston Dave Disney plus just showed a performance of Hamilton by the original Broadway cast. Would you like to take this moment to apologize to Lin Manuel Miranda? I. As as our most loyal listeners will know, I've been a member of Disney, plus since its launch, and so I, thought to myself I'll give shot I'll give this a shot. This you know people are paying like ten thousand dollars a ticket to see this this must be must be better than you know. Head by an angel, and so so I played it and I was watching it with Nikki and with my daughter and About? Forty five minutes in I couldn't I couldn't anymore. It was just so bad. So terrible. was. Too Hard for you, it was it was I think there was a moment where they started that courtship thing with the Schuyler sisters and they start like trying to be like you know like booty liking. R&B Type, rap and I was like Oh. This is terrible. So you didn't finish it. Never finished it. Was it too diverse for you? Did you not like that? It wasn't all white people? That was back. At least the French guy had a Frenchaccent. That guy is great by the way. Digs who's apparently rapper but I didn't know that. Would have helped me. If I had yelled fuck throughout the whole thing. Yeah so on today's episode. We're going to devote the whole episode to Harper's letter. No. We're not gonNA talk about that. We're actually going to go a little old school today and talk about a classic paper in the free will literature, the kind of resurgence that happened in the fifties, but mostly in the sixties and seventies, and we're GONNA. Tell the paper we're GONNA, Talk. About is by Harry Frankfurt. Freedom of the will and the concept of person. So, we're going to dive deep into real philosophy paper. The the very same Frankfurt of the bullshit article that I had forgotten when we did. When we decided on this paper that we had just done something. I had taught totally the same. Completely. Different like people. At, least minds are authors like I. Don't hear the Voice of this guy in that other. Quote Unquote Book. But Apparently, all we do is talk about Harry Frankfurt now so. Yeah I what I alluded to which was no, it'd been awhile since we had just done a study. As an intro segment, and and here's a study that that caught my attention because. Because I actually think that it capture something interesting about the act of swearing, and maybe just my particular fondness for the swearing in a motivated way making me want to believe these findings, but the findings come from a recent paper, Polish frontiers in psychology by Richard, Stevens and Ali. Robertson, it's called swearing as a response to pain assessing hypo algae effects of novel swear words. So. I guess that it's like just known that. Swear words have. These pain reducing effects. Although I. Don't know if it was known to me. It doesn't surprise me right like that like with the ice bucket challenge if you do it and then poured, and you're just like fuck fuck fuck. Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck. Like. That's going to feel better than if you don't say anything. Or if you say kittens, kittens, puppies, puppies, which is interesting, because obviously these are completely arbitrary words, but there's been other work showing you know like these completely arbitrary curse words are emotionally arousing in the way that common sense would predict, but when you learn, swear words in a second language. They're not as emotionally arousing. It's something about being exposed to them. In your first language that gives them this emotional power so. These researchers wanted to both replicate those findings that swearing actually reduces the effects of pain. Then they did something like that. It's like a challenge. This is something that's come up a bunch before in on this podcast. They basically it's called a cold pressor task, and you submerge your arm into a bucket of ice water. That is temperature controlled. They use Celsius. I don't know three to five Celsius so not quite freezing. But right at the point to freezing, and this has been used as a measure of pain, pain, tolerance and pain threshold. And generally what they do, you can do a lot of things you can measure things like heart rate, but the the interesting part for this is just see. How long can you hold it in there until it starts to her? So when it starts to hurt you say ow. This is hurting, and then that's what they call a pain threshold. And then how long can you keep it in King? Keep your arm in after it starts hurt so that that measure of time is a measure of your pain tolerance. I don't know if. Listeners have done this or temblor. You've done this hurts. It actually really hurts. I would be swearing. But, what they were interested in was whether these are the kinds of studies where it's like. Did anybody really believe that this would be the alternative expert explanation so they show? They wanted to know what it was specifically about the word, fuck or a swear word that was doing the work, and so be clear. People who swear as they're doing it. WHO Say Fuck? are able to keep it in longer. and. Also the pain threshold, I guess it starts. It starts hurting less so. Yeah I think that was just an already finding, so they brought a bunch of participants in, and they had them do that. The submerge their arm, their non dominant arm into the ice water. They gave him a bunch of measures that I don't think are interesting to talk about. These these primary measures of pain, threshold and pain tolerance, and they had people randomly either say the Word Fuck They had A. Different condition where they had a neutral word that was just a word used to describe a table participant could choose whichever word they wanted to describe a table, and then they had to invented swearwords. One was fouled. And the other one was twins pipe. And the best part about this is that they hired an advertising agency. Took come up with two words because they wanted to tease apart these two possible explanations one was that it's just distracting you like. Maybe it's just saying fuck. It's not that it's the swear. Word is doing. The analgesic thing is just that you're distracting yourself. The other possibility is that it might just be. Emotionally arousing to more. Fun! Humorous word right so everybody I guess crucially. Everybody did this four times. It's just that. What order they did it in was randomly decided, and what they found was when they were using the F. Word. Their tolerance pain thresholds praising the act. Because it's in the article when they say fuck this action. There's two efforts in question. That's right vouch. I. Read this part the new. The new swear were generated by an agency working for Neuro Fan. They were selected for the experiment by panel, consisting of a lead author lexicographer, an independent scientists. With expertise in swearing and two lay members. I want to do that. Independent scientists with expertise. But what? What does it mean that it's a made up swearword? Rather than just a made up word. They call it a made up. Swear where it or made up curse word. FAO or twist by, but in what sense is that? That I think. I think that could be a swearword. I think you cannot make a swear word I, mean they call it a made up. Swear word I know. So they say the new swear words were selected. They give the name of the science writer who wrote a book called washed. Wearing is good for you. And so they had a two hour meeting with a list of sixty candidate new swear words created by an advertising agency. Unsuitable words were discarded into until remained. A steer was provided that one of the new swear words should carry emotional resonance, while the other should offer distraction possibly the humor so. Much was intended to book. Emotion and twist pipe as a new swear was intended to invoke distractive humor. They didn't work that way, so it doesn't even really matter. So. How was fouled? Emotion provoking. This is. It was a two hour meeting. With a panel of people who just discussed which ones would be? Maybe they thought it sounded like felsch. Like, that's the only way we can make. The motion I guess if. I don't know, but I mean that's the that's the whole point of this article depends on thou- ch-. Evoking emotion and being. I guess they rated it. Yeah, so actual participants rated all for for how emotional they were for how humorous they were, and for how distracting they were, but if you asked to rate how emotional thoug- was. would. How would you understand that question? How emotion arousing. How it was in a rousing yeah, I mean they say emotional, but yet how emotion aroused! Like I. Don't know the actual question mildly amused so I would give it like a on a on one hundred point scale. I would say like ten. You made me think that it's kind of funny that you made up a new word. To, twist pipe is a little funny like I would say that's a little funny. Right, but it's not a question of how funny it is because that's the second one. That's the second where twist pipe it's a question they had they had every word rated on every right either emotion human so where they wanted to what they wanted to see was that it foul was more emotional, and to his pipe was more humorous, and both of these would be so more than the neutral term I think that all they really got action on. was that fuck was different from neutral. Fuck was different from everything. So basically they re finding the finding that fuck is is a pain reducing, but they don't know why. They don't know. Why doesn't seem as if the. When you take the ratings, it doesn't seem as if the distraction ratings or the humor ratings were doing any of the work to reduce the pain tolerance. Their conclusion is this the first show that new made up? Swear words you do have similar pain. Alleviation affects to regulars where. All we know is this adds into the remember always saying that slowly by slowly studied by study. We're going to add to knowledge. This is just another one justifying the use of the word Fuck ornery whenever you're in pay. This seems like a study. Think like if the goal was to just re, refine replicate essentially the effect that saying fuck seems to you know help when it comes to pain, tolerance and pain thresholds than I guess that's fine, but it that's not. What they. Set out at all, so they they set out to find something that they didn't find which is good and they published this in frontiers in psychology, which is great like it's better than this kind of publication I think is better than just publishing it when it works like this is showing us that at the very least F-, and twist pipe and the money they paid the advertising agency to come up with these words. Do not make a difference. Although one could argue, it's a no result, they were ninety two participants total. Yeah each of them did it four times so so many times for you know they're always questions. I'll I'm saying is there's the jury is still out on whether faucher twins pipe will. Let's try it I. Mean I feel like this is where real descriptive data is necessary so next time I. Bang My foot on the. On the corner of my table I'm just going to say to his life. Goes one we need an interview now. So in that sense I think you're right that you know it's good that they published a null finding something that they tried to find, but didn't find nicely alongside like a replication. Yeah, the thing that is maybe not as admirable is just. Why would they think why like the way they set it up? It's like they're trying to give support to one of two different hypotheses. Hypotheses or models, it's not at all clear that FAO is more emotion arise arousing than twins pipe, even though people rated at that way, but the I will honestly would have no idea what they were talking about it. They asked me to rate or emotion, arousing properties of of I think that says nothing, and then twist so close to fuck to like. It's a little too in Germany might sound like fuck. Yeah or twins pipe is longer, and it sounds like a twizzlers pipe. Twist is kind of funny I guess. But I. Still Feel so I. think that there's there's something fundamentally misconceived about if they had some sort of positive finding. Maybe that's the best way to put it. If they had found that, say you know fouts works almost as well as if not quite as well I wouldn't think Oh, it must be emotion arousing rather than you know distraction that explains those or vice versa. Even, if the Faucher even foulkes was judged by everybody to be as emotion arousing as he has because I. Don't I think that's a meaningless question? It's unclear to me what the hypothesis is like. I believe this finding like both from the literature and from myself like if say fuck like feels better, but I'm not clear what the explanation could be like as to why that works. I know there must be an explanation. Maybe explanation is physiological, but I'm not sure what's going on. That makes it feel much better. Say Fuck. There is something about the. The taboo nature of the word that really does feel like it's reducing my pain and I. Don't I would know how to test whether it's just distraction because like if you had like I think a real test of distraction would be if I stubbed my toe real bad, which is the levels of pain them accustomed to? That would make me l., faulk semi toe, real bad, and then have my daughter walk in saying curse words in Spanish like that's a distraction like would that distraction make it hurt less? I don't know, but that's the kind. You know I could see why they're trying to control for everything including even like the length of the word and you know like the. Fact that they're making the utterance while they're doing, but but a real distraction ought to be like. Someone pops out of the back room because. Yeah, it's great that it was published. Even though they didn't get what they wanted to find, but had they gotten it. I think it's just sort of misconceived to think. Oh then we have isolated the factor that causes us to reduce the pain or increase the pain threshold and are taught in the. I got I understand now finally. Hear me up. We use a cold pressor task and we give people random words just shit tons of random words and the ones that happen to reduce pain. We call those onto logically swear words, and we act as if it's a process of discovery like Aleutian through time. People discovered that the sound fuck actually made them feel better, so there's just a whole bunch of words that we haven't figured out yet. They've only tested to this. Out there yeah, except to run this study, but with just every other combination of letters until we find the other ones like the magic one that's like has like the. The. Library of Babel. It's interesting that. The way that. This was approached. Maybe makes assumptions about how you can isolate certain properties based on certain measures, so if I was going to be like a pain in the ass, I would question. That, how that works but I'm not going to. Because you know it's fun. It's fun like I think like the I. Here's where I think okay. It's like in in all seriousness like I think it's a nice result that you can get people to do this longer when they say fuck right right so nice behavioral result I think that's probably. The best. You'RE GONNA do, but if you're GONNA do any better than that and trying to figure out why. Wouldn't think this was the way to do. Here's what I would do. Since you got all serious. I would like to do something like idiosyncratic words because. Is Words that are that are meaningful idiosyncratically so so rather than try to generate novel words, which is a task that people do a whole bunch of these cognitive studies, but you can, if you really want to know whether a were, it's the emotional aspect of the word that is doing the pain, reduction or the distraction one. You could just asked people to list words that aren't swear words, but that make them feel strong emotions and so. You could dump your hand in the Ice Water and Tamla. You could be yelling conceptual analysis conceptual analysis. And and see if that works for, you could be like lin-manuel Miranda's. We're GONNA go with juice but gender. Diversity. Free speech. Unbinding that would be a interesting test, just would require a whole lot of people buying little girls princess dresses. That's a throwback. From whatever forty and a throw forward to, and we do a accountable. On that about? All Right? Let's move on yes. Let's move on all right when we come back speaking of throwbacks. We're going to talk about free will and talk about a classic paper on well, we'll be right back. This episode very bad wizards is sponsored by better help. We're very proud to have them as a return sponsor. What if you could have access to a counselor twenty four hours a day? 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And as we mentioned last time we have a brand, new T, shirt, or t shirts, sweatshirts and hoodies, and if you go to our website and just right next to the support page, you can click merchandise, and that will take you to our cotton bureau page and there you can pick from t shirts for men women youth of a couple of different colors. I'm actually literally wearing mine because I love it. It's nice and soft high-quality i. To awesome. Yeah, so we're very very happy with how these came out, so you can sport is that way and represent walking around with a couple of monkeys staring at each other which I represent us. I take it. Yeah, but that's the thing is that people won't know which is good because I feel like I can wear this t shirt and not feel like A. A total douche! Were you like that? Did you wear the other very bad wizards where I don't think I once word out I never worked out I gave them out to a bunch of my friends, but I can't I couldn't wear t shirt that said very bad, but that'll be like wearing a t shirt. That said they were Pizarro on it, which like campers? Identify me. Anyway. Yes thank you. Thank you very much for all of your support in all of those different ways. We appreciate it. So we are going to talk about Harry Frankfurt's freedom of the will and the concept of person. This is a classic paper. In the true sense of classic, certainly for the free will, moral responsibility literature, it has been cited five thousand, two hundred eighty four times soon all I really care about his citations, so that's pretty impressive, but it also it it it kind of set the groundwork for one type of compatible ism about free will meaning that you could be free according to Frankfurt's account that you could have free will in a determined world, so even if everything is determined. The. You can still have free will if what? Frankfurt says, his free will really is free. Will now in the past? We've said that. The the debate over whether something is free will rather than some other kind of freedom or capacity is not that interesting, and I still believe that however what this paper does I think really effectively is. Point, out. A lot of different ways, in which you can be free, and distinguish between them in meaningful ways and that way I think the this paper influence which is massive is is is pretty well deserved. It really did in a fairly clear way outline, different conceptions of freedom and the difference of in significance to them whether in the end you're comfortable calling that free will or not is less interesting to me, but I think the other stuff is what's really important. And you also right like you have some history with this paper because your dissertation was. Yeah I love it. You know yeah. I. Haven't read this in a while. And I remembered why I really liked it, it's. Sort of like with Strossen. which we bonded over I think early on in our in our. Intellectual relationship. Is that what you call it. Whatever euphemism. There's something that he gets right about the psychology. Of how we judge others so when I was doing my dissertation. I relied heavily on this sort of hierarchical view of the will because it captures. I think a way in which we actually judge other people right not by, and we'll get into this, not always by their what we might call their first order desires our impulses. Or wants but rather by what they want to want. Their second order desires now whether or not, this is a good way to be a compatible list about determinism and free will. That that was never something that I gave that much thought to when I was reading him the first time because I was using it to solve the puzzle. In attribution, moral attribution, but since you have a background in free will I was curious to know whether or not this kind of compatible ism was satisfying to like to the field well. I think it was. At it was influential, whether was satisfying I. Think People did a lot of variance on it like Gary, Watson? Who brought in values in addition to desires as being central to free, will, but still compatible EST way. It's a different kind of approach to freedom, really different in kind than Straw approach which I currently favor. Again, when I I'm coming at this from fresh is when I first was interested in this topic I was always coming at it from the perspective of is this enough for moral responsibility? And at the time I didn't find I was a skeptic about free will and I. Didn't find that this account could give you what you needed for. Moral responsibility for reasons may be that we. We will get to what I was surprised. An looking at this and I haven't really looked at it in a long time because I haven't even taught this topic in a long time. Never mind written on it. It's not really about moral responsibility. There's there's a little a few pages at the end where he he brings moral responsibility into it, but it's just it's really about. Free will or different kinds of freedom, and so in that sense I think it was nice to go back to it with fresh eyes, and I'm sure that when I, go back, and look at if I ever went back and look at some of my work. My work would have assumed that this was supposed to do more for moral responsibility than it's actually trying to do now. Having said that I do think what it does say about moral responsibility is not satisfying even to me now, but but yeah, that's. That's my take on that. So. Before we jump into the meat of the argument. This came out before his. Principal alternate possibilities came out after three hundred after. Possibilities papers sixty eight. This is seventy one or Both in the Journal of Philosophy, so he starts out. Let's just go through it I think he starts out talking about a distinction between persons and non persons, or if or human beings, most human beings and non human animals. He says here's one difference Other animals like our dogs can have desires and they can act on them. And they can choose to do something or choose not to do something. A lot of animals can do that. Dogs for sure they can choose to do something not choose to do something. I always remember my dog tessie, who had just hover over pile of deer, shit and spend to her shoulder. She knew we hated when she rolled in Deir. Shit and she would think about it, but ultimately the deer shit desire was so strong that she just rolled around in it even though she's GonNa. Get yelled at. She was going to get yelled. That's why she was even. Deciding and still did it, so we can all do that. WH-, we can't all do, or at least what according to Frankfurt other animals can't do is reflect on those desires, and think about which of these desires do I want to have. Which of them do I? Not Want to have which do I wish? I didn't have rights. Tests Tessie my dog at the time. She couldn't think do I want to have the desire to roll in dear. Shit I wish I didn't have that desire, or maybe no I'm glad I have that desire to dealership dog. Let's just launch race might ear should identify with. That desire to rolling dear ship, so so that's something we can do and Frankfurt points out that. Other other creatures can't. So like here's an example for me usually when I sit down to read. I have a desire to get a drink when I'm reading like. This is almost automatic pathway in my brain right now like we're eating. Stay Ski. I was like well. I should have a drink. I should have a bourbon Yeah, but maybe if I guess would be more appropriate, but maybe I WANNA cut down my drinking, and so I can think about whether I don't WanNa. Have that desire anymore? It's that capacity that according to Frankfurt is essential to. It's necessary. It's not necessarily it's not sufficient, but it's at least you need that. If you're going to be a person, the ability to reflect on your desires and to. To think and also to either want to have them or not to want to have them, and this is a capacity that also forms the basis of having eventually freedom of the will with respect to certain actions and desires, and not having it, so that's the first distinction, but the I am maybe in a portent second distinction here is between a person's desire and his or her will. So! Frankfurt notes that. We often have conflicting desires, and then when we have conflicting desires, one of them wins out that desire actually motivates me, so if I I might have a desire to have a drink while I'm reading and also a desire to just read without drinking right, but if I end up pouring myself at drink than that desire wins, that's my what he calls effective desire, and that's my will. Will that is identical to my will according to Frankfurt. It's not necessarily a free will, but it's a will so that's what separates a will from desire is the will is the desire that motivates you to act right, because at any given instant, and we could have a whole bunch of wants or desires and a lot of the conflict, but they're conflicting at this lower level so. You made me think of by dog every night to distract him from trying to eat our food. We give them a treat, but Nikki actually holds out to treats that he likes and every night. It's a hilarious thing to make him look back and forth back and forth and try to decide because they're both treats. We know he likes the one that he picks out. Is the desire the you know? The desire that he acted on was his will to have that bone. Yes right, so you like bury burdens. Ask You're trying to. Burden and Bird that burdens ask who gets paralysed is. Who is an agent? Without will right but desires. They've desires to go to both bales of Hay, but no will at that point so now where while we're at a higher level of reflecting on our desires, we can also reflect on what we want our wills to be, or in other words what we want our effective desires to be so here's another example I was thinking of. You take an older guy who finds himself attracted to the younger people who work in his job at his office. He. Has these desires to have affairs with them or have sex with them if he can, but then he also has desires to be faithful to his wife to not fuck his family life and do not fuck up his job me. Montana, Don't do it, don't do. This is not autobiographical He May, so here's the distinction. I want to bring up though right. You could think of this two ways right. This could be two different kinds of ways. The person could handle the fact that he has these conflicting desires at the first order right, he may just want to get rid of the desires to be with younger went right like like a pedophile might just not want to be attracted to children at all right. or he might be fine with having the desires for younger women right like Oh keeps me young. It keeps me alive or whatever, but he doesn't want them to be effective like he doesn't WanNa fuck up his family life. That's more important desire so. It's not that he wants to not have desires that he has that he that he has. He's fine with having those desires. It's just that at the higher level. He doesn't want those desires to ever cause him to act in a way that is detrimental to other things that he that he wants so according to Frankfurt. He would have a second order volition volition with respect to this would be the one to be faithful that desire to be faithful to not fuck up family life. That's the one that he wants even if he's fine with having those other desires. That's the one he wants to be effective. That is according to Frankfurt a second order volition. And these are what is connected to freedom of the will according to Frankfurt so it's not just the second order desires. It's the second order volition that are connected to freedom of the will. Right this is the example that it gives up the doctor who wants to know what it's like to have a drug drug addiction cravings right where? Similar in instructor to what you just said, but basically the doctors like I wonder what it's like to be a serious addict, and so he's having the second order desire to have the pull of addiction. While at the same time, not wanting that of addiction to actually be effective is what I like about. This hierarchical will the way that he structuring this lens for a nice analysis of. The kinds of psychological situations that we can easily see in ourselves, and in others I think it's very keen a very keen observation. Absolutely now this is the reason I didn't use that. Example and I came up with my own is. That seems like such a farfetched example. It's this. It's this guy who works on addiction who wants to understand addiction and so really wants to have the desire, but I think these kinds of this distinction between second order volition second order desires is actually pretty common like there's plenty of desires that I don't mind having as long as they are not affect you know as long as they're not actually making me do something that conflicts with other first order desires that are stronger. And so it is a big difference to either not want to I. Don't mind wanting to have a drink when I'm reading. I would like though sometimes for me to like have the effect of desire. Be The one that is just a drink to read without drinking. You know what I mean. And I think that's a really. This is one of my favorite. The sanctions and the essay is this distinction between like the SEC because I think like this gets lost sometimes in hierarchical accounts, and they think either you want the desire, or you don't, but it's not that simple. It's like it's which of your desires do you want? Be Effective. That's right. Yeah, because you could. Just, add to that. You could definitely even could be part of your identity that you really like. Having the desire to drink bourbon, and you know all kinds of Bourbon, you just know you're an alcoholic and you need to keep that in check, but it's not as if you have a second order desire to be a teetotaler by the way as we get into. This will bring it up this. There's a lot in here that Kinda reminds me of Freud's analysis of the of the self, because they're both fundamentally questions about what makes a person, a whole person and there were times when I was like like Freud has language that sounds almost exactly like like the conflict between the Super Ego. And Ego. Driven by whatever reality let's have? Right, I mean the difference. Is that for Freud? The superego isn't really determined raped by the person. It's more determined by like the. It's all for freight. It's all just like you call. Biology is destiny like the the developmental forces that shaped you early on will determine all of this stuff, so then Frankfurt goes into this whole thing about the the wanting which I don't know if you WanNa talk about it. It seems like it gets. It has been picked up a lot of the secondary stuff about this, but I'm not sure. If. It's if it's worth talking about it certainly at the length that he talks about it, but the general idea is it somebody that just doesn't care? Which of his or her first order, desires are effective, so they might have second order desires. They might not, but what they absolutely lack is any preference as to which of their desires. Determine their actions. So I like I like the Washington and the reason I like the description of the want in is that I think it captures at least? At least my observation of some people. In. This often happens in a TV show where you're trying to determine whether a person is is say a good person like, are they? Are they really wanting to help or are they? A bad person are somebody who's driven by selfishness and you see them do both things you see them. act in ways that make them seem good and ways that make them seem bad, and you realize that they are just simply being driven by whatever local desires are pulling them and sort of if if they have empathy for the person in front of them, they won't kill them, or or we'll help them. And if not, they'll do some bad shit, it's just it's. It's driven solely by these lower level desires and the strength. With which one? Is Elicited in any given situation, they walk around living their life being pulled by these first order desires I think actress something interesting about a person. Maybe it's a caricature of a person because most people. Are probably reflective, but there's at least large chunks of my life where I could describe my actions. My daily actions sort of want and the actions of a wanton person. Yeah like he doesn't seem to use it as a description of parts of our life at so extreme that this person just never even thinks about you know even if they might have second order desires like I want this or I don't want this. I don't want to want that. I wish I didn't want that. They just never have any preference as to which of their desires determined their action. It's so extreme that it's as as Frankfurt says for him. The want isn't a person. They're like animals like he says all animals are want, and they a don't because they because they're not at any higher order level at all, but then you know even if there was a human being like what you're talking about, but I think it's more useful to talk about them. In terms of just so much of our everyday life is like that where we don't even really think about whether we want which of our desires we wanna be effective like we can sleep walk through life in. In large chunks of it, and and not be reflective about whether that's a how we want to live or not, and and he makes an interesting point about being a wanton doesn't mean that you're not deliberating, so you can have rational faculties and you can actually. Determine which of your first order desires you? You want to win out, but it's not when I don't think you can do that. What does he say is? It does not mean that each of his first order desires is translated heedlessly at once into action he may have no opportunity to act in accordance with some of his desires, more of the translation of his desires into action may be delayed or precluded, either by conflicting desires of the first order, or by the intervention of deliberation for Watson may possess an. An employee rational faculties of a higher order nothing in the concept of a wanton implies that he cannot reason he cannot deliberate concerning how to do what he wants to do. What distinguishes the rational wanting from other rational agents is that he is not concerned with the desirability of his desires themselves. He ignores the question of what his will is to be. So that separates them from the animals, and that they can have like some sort of deliberation between these level desires. They're just not connecting them to anything like their second order there will what what they want to want or what they want to be effective. Which of their desires they wanna be effective right so he he uses it as a contrast with the unwilling addict. So you take somebody who's addicted as a cocaine wants to do coke whenever they see it, but maybe they don't want the desires to do coke to be effective right now again it could be that the this addict is fine with having the desires, but he doesn't want them to overwhelm all his other desires, like currently does, or it could be that they just don't want the desire at all either way. What they really their volition is. They don't want because it's fucking up their life. They don't want the desire to do coke. To be effective to actually make them do it because they are. They're trying to quit and what Frankfurt says. Is that this unwilling addict? This person identifies. Himself against could be herself. He always uses him. This was pre pre your woke. Products have changed. But this this person identifies himself with the second order with. With their second order volition, not wanting to desires to do like an eight ball every night to be effective. I guess that would be a lot. So this when I was reading this, I thought to myself. That bugs in the wire has a nice there. There are times in which he's clearly unwilling addict, but like there are long periods of time where he's just a wanton and and Bob's at his worst when he's a heroin addict and he doesn't seem to care. He doesn't seem to be influenced by any second order desire to be. Addict or not, he wants the drug. He uses his rational faculties to obtain the drug quite often like he's strips, copper from buildings and and. He just never it never occurs to him to consider. Franken says whether he wants the relations among his desires to result in his having the will, he has every once in a while bulbs. Actually. Has that that second order desire kick in, and he feels guilt, and he wishes that he wasn't. What is right I. Guess The question that I would ask there is. Is He being a wanton in those periods, or is he being a willing addict? Which is the distinction he introduces at the end, which is somebody who has reflected on their desires, and decided I want to have the desire to do heroin, and so I'm going to take these steps to to carry that out. Like Strip, copper whatever? The SO I. Don't know if it's totally clear from. This. Is Bob Bos from the wire heroin addict as as Dave said, is he just a wanton where he had never reflects on whether this is a good or bad desire I. I don't think so. He's a thoughtful guy. He's he's definitely a reflective person in other ways, even during those periods so I guess I yeah, I would think maybe in those times. He's more of a willing addict or you know some combination of a willing and unwilling addict. The want is just weird like they just never care. I guess I like I. Resonate with that like I. I feel like I want wanton and people. In the way they're just pulled by whatever they just don't care. And I think maybe not in bubbles, but in some addicts teams that they are so driven by first order desires that they can often rationally deliberate about, but they don't seem like maybe when pushed, they would say well of course I don't want to be an addict, but but. But then how come that hasn't connected to your first order. Desires in the way that it ought to. It's interesting Guys at least the first half of the movie are like that right there. They're just being led around by it, and they're just thinking at a higher level one of the things that Frankfort doesn't do. This will be important when it comes to finally getting to what free will is, but he doesn't separate between individual cases of acting according to your own free will, or and just having free will or individual cases of being a want then which are plenty and just being a want, and it seems like when he's talking about the want and right now. In the in this paper at least the way I read it this time, it's like the want an is like this. Almost because of just their wired that way for all of their desires and even bubbles if he's wont and if you're right that he's a want then when it comes to heroin, he's not wanted when it comes to other things you know, and so he's not want, and he's just want and with respect to heroin and I think this is a similar tension. When we get to like what's an act of free will versus somebody who who has free will. Actually do you WanNa get to his described? Let's do that because I also noted that usually free will talked about this metaphysical thing that you have or you don't. And and on this analysis, it really does seem like Frankfurter saying. Certain actions are free and certain actions are not and maybe people with the biology of human are capable of having free actions. That's not to say that. They all are free and maybe yeah. Yeah, there's a difference between asking whether you have the. Capacity to act according to your own free will, and whether did you do this of your own free will for this specific instance now obviously, I guess the the ladder. Presumes the former, but he often he he pretty much almost exclusively talks about it. In terms of you know individual actions well, or at least maybe he does. Let's let's see so. Here's what he says it seems this is on page fifteen. If you from the PDF, it seems to me both natural and useful to construe the question of whether a person's will is free in close analogy of the question of whether an agent enjoys freedom of action now freedom of action is. The freedom to do what what one wants to do. analogously than the statement that a person enjoys freedom of the will means also roughly that he is free to want what he wants to want. He's free to want what he wants to want more precisely. It means that he is free to will what he wants to will do have the will he wants. This is like a Dr Seuss. He there he's just saying just for my sanity, so he's saying it's a person who can choose what second order desires. person you can choose what. Volition Alderson's. Bullish. It means that he is I think the the it's free to have the will that he wants, and so just as the question about the freedom of agents action has to do with whether it is the action he wants to perform so the question of freedom of his will has to do with whether it is. The will that he wants to have so like the the unwilling addict. Doesn't have free will according to this account when it comes to say doing cocaine or heroin because they can't have the will that they want to have so. The wheel is at the first order they want to have. He wants to have the will the effective desire be the one to refrain from from doing coke? and. He doesn't have that even though it's what he wants. You know in the same way that like free action. If I want to drink water, but I can't. Then I'm not free to drink water in the sense that I. Don't have freedom of action. If even though I wanted to be part of my will that I. Don't have a drink when I'm reading, but I can't do it I can't have that well. I'm always getting a drink. Even though it's not the will I want to have then. I don't have free will with respect to that obviously doesn't mean. I don't ever have free will just means I don't have free will with respect to drinking and reading I hope that makes sense to listeners. You shouldn't have been drinking so much lawyer. I so you might think of this as Trying to figure out whether somebody acted according to their own free will, which is the way people talk? Did they do this their own free will and according to Frankfurt if it was? The will that they wanted to have than the answer is yes, if it wasn't than the answer is no I mean. This is where I say that I think this gets to a good way to analyze how we make. For other people's actions, so when we see an unwilling addict, we have some sympathy for them because we see that they're having tension between a second order, and I order desire. They actually don't want to do drugs, but they're compelled to. They're not free, and so we have some measure of sympathy. And, that's actually what my dissertation was about. We simply described people who acted upon an impulse and. Punch somebody in the face in a bar fight. Sure enough people like think that's bad. They blame you, but if you calmly coolly planned to punch somebody in the face, people think that you're more of an asshole and they blame you more. But what the Frankfurt part came in was showing that the reason that people discounted blamed for the impulsive puncher is that they assumed that that person had a second order desire not to punch right. They lost control in the moment, whereas so they assumed an inconsistent higher hierarchical will. The first order and second order was in conflict in the case of the person who deliberated punch. People assumed that they were consistent right? They had a second order desire to punch that I. Desire to punch the turned into the punch, and that's why people are more likely to judge them badly, and this it seemed to us could explain why, in cases of Praiseworthy, Action You had an asymmetry. So if Tamla you saw somebody you were motivated so much by your empathic compassion. You emptied your wallet to give it to the homeless person. Right in front of you versus you plan this out. You're like I. Really Want to be a good person. I want to donate money and I. Go and I find a homeless person I'd give them all of that money. People. Didn't they? Don't reduce the amount of praise for your empathic Compassionate Emotional Act and that we found was because we assume that you want to be that sort of person in Aristoteles. In sense like you actually have cultivated empathy, you WANNA be the sort of person who would donate money to a homeless person. If you saw them suffering. If we told people that they had a conflicting secondary desire that Damn I wish I wasn't such a sucker I wish I wasn't so motivated. By homeless people I walk by I need to be more STOIC and not look in their eye, and not feel sympathy. Then they reduced their praise. Because then that's just an unwilling. It's like the case of an unwilling addict except for your addicted to compassion. Yes but what's interesting and I think. Different From what Frankfurt's talking about at least. Where we've gotten to hear he, so you're pointing to an asymmetry between of blameworthy versus Praiseworthy Behavior But the question for Frankfurt, at least at this point has nothing to do with whether it's praiseworthy or blame where the or it's a question of whether. One of those is a freer act than other or not even a free act because you. It's definitely a free act because you wanted to do it and you did it. It's the question. is whether the person who gives money to the homeless person just out of the spontaneous empathy? Is that freer than the person who gets into a bar fight because they have a spontaneous impulsive anger and I I wonder if you would have that same a symmetry in it when you're asking about free free will rather than about moral, right buddy, right? That's a good question because we didn't ask that and my intuition is that those are at least. Constructed to be the same right like the description. was such that people ought to say that these we're both actions that were ountry. What we thought was simply that people were judging. You based on whether you're higher, order will endorsed. So which an idea that Frankford does I remember if he refers to here, but like you having some. Committing a first order action that is clear that you had no freedom over, but endorsing it saying but I liked it. I did that. That's that's kind of what we were looking for. The people were praising the second order desire to want to be. Compassionate, but that has, but it's the question is whether they would call that person freer, and maybe they would because they would assume that people reflectively endorse they're. Good desires. Are Good Volition 's. Rather than their bad volition, but but also maybe not, maybe you might think if in both cases the person had either never reflected on it or reflected the other way. Then it's not then it's not free, not inactive free will, even if it's, it might still be praiseworthy, but it's not an active free will, and is something that he distinguishes later in the essay right the he thinks they're certain acts. You might do a certain action not of your own free will, but you might still be blameworthy are praiseworthy for it. So here's where the rubber meets the road, so the willing addict he says. He he he brings up this person who say like a coke fiend, but just loves being COQ themed. You know like they're just happy with. It's their life choice, but they're also addicted to it so if it wasn't their choice to be a coke fiend, they still would be a coke fiend. It just so happens that as they reflected about it. They're happy with having that. Be there will. So this is something I. Honestly don't fully get. He gives this example as a way of showing how willing addict might be morally responsible for their drug abuse, but not free because they're addicted. What's not totally clear to me? Is why the willing addicts isn't doesn't have free will, so here's what he says about the willing addict. The willing addicts the bottom of Paintin. The willing addicts will is not free for his desire to take the drug. We'll be effective regardless of whether or not. He wants this desire to constitute his will, but when he takes the drug, he takes it freely and of his own free will. So he says the willing addicts. Will is not free, but when he takes the drug, he takes it freely and of his own free will I don't understand that distinction between their will not free, but they are acting of their own free will when they take the drug. Is he trying to say that in that first order? Desire that's kicking in when they're making the decision to take the drug. That that is never free. Like they they are pulled by that first order desire that's right because of the whale is always identical with your first effective first order desire yet right, but if he's willing, and he endorses that his second order desire endorses that action he has has made that taking the drug free. Is What he's saying he's. It's made the, but it's. It's made the. Tree. Action is free regardless because he ha- if he wanted to take it, and he had it available to take it and so. That's enough for freedom of action you get to. The question is on word and this is, so it's. Will because they were able to act in a way that they wanted to. It consistent with it was consistent with what they wanted to will yeah. It was consistent with their first second order volition right, but there will was not free. I guess because. It couldn't have been other like there is no way there will was N-, physiologically addicted so there's no way there will wasn't going to be to to do the drug whether or not. They endorsed it at the higher level, but it is a weird thing to talk about the will not being free, but when they act, they act of their own free will is very confusing. He needs more words for it and he tries. He really is trying to avoid the moral responsibility language here and but I think that it is replete with Leighton moral concerns about moral responsibility. Here is not trying to avoid the question. He only brought up the willing addict because of the question of moral responsibility, so as I understand it. You can correct me if you read it this way. He he says all right well now that I've given you this conception of free will and going to clear up a misconception, which has some people think that free will is necessary for moral responsibility or And that somebody can only be morally responsible for their freely will the acts, and he says that's false, because you can be morally responsible, even when you're will isn't free, and that's when he brings the willing addict and do it and the Frankfurt cases, which are not GonNa talk about our. Perhaps examples of this, too, that's the way in which he. Talks about moral responsibility and note that he doesn't say you know what would be necessary or sufficient for moral responsibility. He just talks about one thing that he believes isn't necessary for moral responsibility. It's and that's all that he gives us in this. And I think the willing addict is an example of somebody who's will is not free, even though they act of their own free will. When it comes to taking the drug, there will is not free, but they are still morally responsible. He sidesteps two things right the principle of alternate possibilities. He said I mean he says. It doesn't matter if the person could have done otherwise right or in this case could willed otherwise. Yeah, will otherwise, and he really sidesteps the. The threat of causal determinism is like well. That's I don't think he sidestep said he says it's not. Well he he just takes it down with one paragraph like you says look all actions are caused. That can't possibly be what makes somebody a free agent or not act freely or not. He just dismisses that as as a potential threat to free. Will I don't think he's just dismissing it as much as he's saying look if you are able to have the will that you want to have and you're able to. You know act in a way that you want to that that you want. That's just all the. The freedom that you could want or that you desire or conceive of right and having this additional thing be like, but no, you're the unmoved mover. You're the cause of it, and there's no cause of a view. That doesn't make you any freer like having it be magic. Instead of you know part of some bras. Yeah, that's what I meant by dismissing this as unimportant feature free will but I, but I think he gives a little bit of an argument for I don't think he's just like dismisses it. It's it's the part that's dismissive, dismissive or even just sidestepped is anything to do with moral responsibility I. Think Yeah, the No, when I said dismisses. It actually didn't mean to imply that you didn't take. I'm going to say that. He took care of it. Like I have underlined and good point where he's saying exactly what you said that. What does it matter that like you're? The movement of your arm is a miracle, so so is a rabbits are moving like it's the same kind of miracle, so it doesn't matter is dismissive in a good way. It's just saying in one paragraph like. Stop it with all the causal determinism. Here's what I want to ask you like you know he he frankfurt goes on to say look, this could be very. This came. Be Very simplistic. Of the will like. The hierarchies can be more complex and higher and higher. For the true for the person who truly believes determine ISM is the ultimate threat. Does this do any work like because you still have? Causes 'cause second order desires that then either link up to I ordered. His is or not like is this. Like hardcore determinist, we'll just be like nice try. Not a heart, a hardcore incompatible list incompatibleness determinist. So again I think it matters what we're talking about. If you're talking about moral responsibility than I than I, it's not satisfying because maybe the willing addict like maybe it's because you know of their how how they're wired both from their DNA and also their environment and their upbringing, and all of that and other experiences to not only be addicted to drugs, but to just want to embrace being addicted to. To drugs right, and so, why should you blame the willing addict more than you would blame? the unwilling addict. Because both both of those things are ultimately determined by things that are outside of their control, so when it comes to moral responsibility, even though I'm compatible list, but not of this kind it doesn't seem to be satisfying in answering incompatible as objections to a responsibility, but in terms of. Marking distinction of an important kind of freedom to have I think it is satisfying like I do want the freedom to be able to choose which of my desires are effective, and not be held hostage to first order desires that I don't want that I. Don't want to be my will bright. This is why I really liked that. This is framed as. The concept of person like we're like. He's primarily tackling. What makes a person whether he's successful at his compatible? ISM is less interesting to me. What I do care about is that he is describing a feature of the human mind or the mind of any other being that is as complex as ours. That really does distinguish us from just animals we have. There is something that makes you you. In the way that you're higher order in lower order desires interact. That is fundamentally. The nature of our human life is this set of hierarchical goals that we have to deliberate in. We're obviously taking. Like very low level actions all day long in that sense where like animals, but these are all linked to some higher order, desires, and we are either failing or succeeding in in meeting, making those identify with each other those high order lawyers identify with each other and be powerful an act. Volition the world exactly it's very good at so for the people who say well you know if determinism is true, we're just like animals like no, there's a very significant way in which we're not like non human animals, because we have these capacities in these capacities are important and again whether they're important for moral responsibility is a separate question, but that they are important and distinct is i. think undeniable. Right like it really really matters I mean for me. It often matters. In a moral sense, but it really matters. If say the thing that you did like if you lapsed back into addiction, even though you really really didn't want to, but you know something happened. Versus you just having this to second order desire to like. Become an addict again. That matters like that shit actually matters to any, and it's right to say year less free in the latter case. Then I'm sorry. You're more free in the latter case. If you just let yourself do it, 'cause you're fine with it. You're more free, even if like you're probably going back to being a drug addict either way just because the physiological addiction so strong there was a sense in which you're more free if you get to do. The one that you identify with as this is who I wanna be because you're allowed to have the will that you want to have and I think there is something that is connected to freedom there we also do deliberate about what kinds of second order desires we WANNA have like. This is a lot of what you know what it means to you think we deliberate over what second order desires we want. We do say like. Do I want to be the kind of person who does this? But that's deliberating over I order desire right? No, do I want to desire to exercise like? I WANNA be a person who desires exercise great. I like to be the kind of person who wakes up at six and goes jogging. I get it I can't do it, but I would like to be that so in other domains might be more successful I might be able to actually make myself somebody who is sympathetic to the W I by going and reading all the right things, and then my first order, beliefs desires can actually change that way. Right I guess I would say you're still deliberating over whether you want to have the first order desire to exercise. You're not deliberating over you whether you want have a second order desire to want to want to exercise or not, but maybe you are I was thinking like when this goes to higher levels, it starts to get very confusing like you might higher level deliberation to me like say a third orders do I want to? To be the kind of person that is so fully in control of their desires, and who has that much self control or do? I want to be more of an impulsive person that sometimes they act in ways that they just wouldn't. You know the second order? Desires wouldn't have endorsed that but I want to be the kind of person that every once in a while my passion and my just got the better of me. Me Or do I want to be the kind of person that is always in control of themselves. Actually that's actually something that is, you might deliberate about you know, but that to me is a deliberation at the third order, not about any individual desires, but about whether you want to be the kind of person who can always have the will that you want to have or not. That's also sort of interesting, but what he says. Says is this is potentially endless except that when you identify with the desire decisively then that just ends the discussion, and if you just say I wanna be like Alrich in dark I, WanNa be a dog I wanna be constantly like chasing strange at every point, and that's it and I don't want to think about like whether I wanna have like anymore like whether I wanna have or not like. This is who I am. Then I think like that that ends the discussion, and now if he if he's able to act in the way that he won't that he wants, then he is, he has all the freedom of the will. It's possible to want or conceive of. Its when he does Frankfort does. Nicely get out of what what an annoying conceptual analysis would do, which is like well? Where does it stop? You can have more and more you can have more and more loves, but he's like become on, but like that doesn't happen. It's not turtles all the way up. It's actually like two or three turtles, and then that fat turtle at the top just determines everything, or you can be a turtle at a lower level that determines et just by your decisive commitment to it. So what are you decisively committed to? That would constitute you your person hood. In this well, so like I don't know being somebody who will try to liven up a conversation with jokes, dirty jokes whatever you know. Like that's something that I typically want to do glad I do it. Will I want to do that? Glad I can do it sometimes and I. Just don't have any further like I. Don't need to keep deliberating about it like it's just who I am, and it's done, and so when I when I can do that because back to the I d. w., but what they're saying is for those kind of people right now have to live in fear that they're going to be canceled at every moment I don't think that's true and so I both have freedom of the will, when it comes to that on Frankfurt's account and on freedom of action. It's funny because like you. Have always liked to say shit to stir things up and you know, make make life less boring from everything from like you know talking out in class when I was younger to committee meetings Cornell cracking jokes, but I used to feel like. It was I was a wanted person in that regard that I couldn't help myself, but say things, so I would get in trouble often in junior, high elementary for talking out of turn for making jokes and I felt like I. Just couldn't help myself and then over time. Nurtured the second order desire to be that kind of person in a way that just according to Frankfurt I think made me go from an unfree person to a free person just, but with my actions themselves not changing and assuming you weren't. You're not addicted to it. Then, you know so that if you change your mind at the second order like wait I wanna be a more sensitive person, and I'm willing to just have another fucking boring conversation where nobody says anything remotely like interesting or worthwhile. Like assuming you if you had that shift in second order, you could make it effective then then you're just as free as anyone could possibly be when it comes to that interestingly, though if you never test that out like. For Frankfurt if you never really yeah, you might never really know so. You're still free and again. We're not getting into Frankfurt cases, but those I think do become kind of interesting. So here's if I have a criticism of this account of free will. It's I think he gives good accounts of success stories where everything aligns perfectly, but what about in cases where you don't. That's not what happens, so say going back to my example of the the drink, right? What about the case where? You know I would really like to be able to sit down and and read without always thinking God you know Bourbon would be nice to have with this. And then because you know fucks, it makes you drink more in fucks up your concentration sometimes. I want to be the kind of person that doesn't that doesn't do that, so let's say I have that second order desire, but I'm not able to make it a F- The the the desire effective. I always do it I. still always go get the drink when I read. According to Frankfurt my will isn't free. There and I'm not sure that's totally true, right? I'm thinking. Maybe I still have free will when it comes to that I, maybe on my second order, desire just isn't quite strong enough. You know, but it's not something that. Is, really diminishing my capacity for for free will. At that point, it's just I need to have a stronger second order desire when it comes to that I currently have and I just don't, and it's not because I have a competing second order desire to not do that. It's just because you know like I. Don't think it's as big a deal as I should or maybe I so in other words I guess what I'm saying is when it comes to. Saying that. A CERTAIN ACT is free. This account does well when it comes to saying that certain act is not free I, think becomes a lot more complicated or not. An Act is free. We keep doing this That person's will is not free. There becomes. You know a little dicey air to say when somebody doesn't act according to the will that they want to have. Is it because they lack free will, or is it because of something else? 'cause the addict is that's just that's just strong case, but the person who is not necessarily addicted doesn't make. Are you know? It's not that you couldn't make yourself love x want to go to the gym four times a week. You probably could. If you really set your mind to it, you really could, but maybe you just don't want to be that person. You know strongly enough. To be that person to to significant degree, you see what I'm saying. Yeah Yeah. So I. Don't know I mean I get Frankfurt's intuition that you're still not free. There is no. Unless there's evidence that you sometimes are able to affect your. Desire to not have a drink, but if you never can. Like you're always like Kinda Wanna be a person who goes Jim for today, but I've never done it then I'd be like well. Maybe you're just like not quite so clear as to how much like a drug addict you really are. Or not going to the gym. But I, guess the the issue is what about those times where it's. Maybe there have been times in your life where you have gone to the gym regularly and now you're not, but it's been like three years four years since you've done that regularly been trying to get yourself to go back for the last couple and it just hasn't. It hasn't worked. Is that because you don't have free will, or is that just because other things like that that get? Get in the way of it or that your desire is not as strong as it once used to be or but I get what you're saying, also that sometimes these things these habits are stronger than you think. They have more of a control over you than you think that they have at, but how much your second order desire kicks in every time you pour yourself a bourbon. Does. What it says about free will, but still like expanding it says something about you. That's interesting and. You're not the sort of person who either has embraced the second or desire to always have bourbon, and you're not the sort of person who's wanton who just like mindlessly drinks bourbon. You are the person who is worried about their health, or whatever and free will or not I think that's the kind of interesting question. We can ask about people when you lose your temper and you do something wrong. Are you like we. We've seen all these social media videos of people losing their shit like saying crazy things. was that just one time or did? They cultivate a life in which? They just let themselves like yell at people, 'cause because that kind of matters, you know right and I think Frankfurt in later work talks about ambivalence. Describes what you're talking about like. With the Bourbon thing, it might be the partly you are. You are ambivalent at the second order like partly. You're like I. Just have fucking drink and read your thing you like it. It's fun like it's not that big a deal. You're healthy. You're like you're not breaking shit around the house in beating your wife and child. Just like avid drink your car for asking like what's the big deal? And then there's another part is like yeah, but enough with all this you know, it's not good for you in the long run, so you could be ambivalent about it in a way that. Really speaks to your freedom as much as it speaks to something about you as a person as you say, which is a conflict at the second order, I'd make a character judgment about like which which desires won out over time. which second order desires cultivated successfully? If you always let yourself be pulled, Bourbon like upon reflection. You decided that that's the kind of person you want to be again. I think that I would give you more and more responsibility than somebody who just raised drinking bourbon from bottle, but I mean again. That's moral responsibility. yeah. I think that's where the the this account is. Potentially useful I think certain people have found it to be the cornerstone of their conception of moral responsibility, but that's when the regress concerns really kick in because you have to start asking questions about why you have the second order desires or volition that you have and we haven't even talked about this, but I think that this is a way in which people talk about implicit attitudes I don't know that they ever explicitly endorse Frankfort, but there is a leiw view of the hierarchical will that says hey, you know it's not you should like who hates black people. It's just you in this small sense you in this big sense. Clearly you don't. WanNa be racist right. You just read white fragility. Or this other list of books that people are compiling to like. Raise your kid non-racist. That stuff. I want to be the kind of person that doesn't. Do that as a way of making your kid not raise us, but instead like actually has them hang out with people of different. Odd It's. It's like such a bad proxy it, of course, of course, that's the white intellectual solution to the problem. Your Kid, a list of these books rather than actually maybe take them to playgrounds. Where like Cooper's? Or virtual reality. Where you can interact with black people safely. That's going to be the next big thing. And that'll do it for this podcast. Dave thanks the only way you can interact with black people safely as Reality. No, but that's. Using trained. No you could see that coming on the horizon. And then you be judged by like which apps you had on your virtual reality device. You're only on level three of woke. My kids at level nine. By could ask people their pronouns before they even start talking. And do you have anything more to say about that? Now I really like it. I I really I like I like it way more than his on bullshit. Oh Yeah for sure, this is like an important You know somebody's. Sometimes for this is important in a way that I. See. I'm very glad to see that you think of some philosophies important I do. Yeah No, it's fun to go back. You know there's obviously so much secondary literature on this, but a lot of that's faded from my memory, and so really just reading this with fresh eyes was. Was Nice. Cool, All right join US next time on very bad with it. Man. Plan With all rings. Anybody can have A. Very. Very good man just to say that wisit!

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Episode 180: Chekhov's Schrdinger's Dagger (Kurosawa's "Rashomon")

Very Bad Wizards

1:56:13 hr | 10 months ago

Episode 180: Chekhov's Schrdinger's Dagger (Kurosawa's "Rashomon")

"This episode of very bad wizards is made possible by our sponsors prolific prolific dot co connecting researchers with participants around the world and by give wilcock the gold standard for very bad. Wizards is a podcast with a philosopher. My Dad and psychologist Dave Pizarro having an informal discussion about issues and signs ethics. Please note that the discussion contains bad words that I'm allowed to say and knowing my dad. Some very inappropriate jokes folks who say fuck and smog as the fucking reason you have such beautiful fucking sunsets The man plan keeping raising you in today's can handle very good man just a very bad quizzes. Welcome to very bad wizards. I'm Tamila Summers from the University of Houston. I'm Dave. This is our first episode of Twenty Twenty. I'll ask you the same question I always ask you in our first episodes of the year. What's your New Year's resolution solution? God you know this year. I always say that that I think year's resolutions is your stupid and they don't work and that's true. That's true but this year I found myself kind of wanting one like I want to participate like I wanted to be part of this this This big cultural relevant so I thought and I thought and I thought and I can't for the life of me I don't need improvement like the forum. The ideal form of Dave Bizarro idea. I'm as polished as can get. I don't know oh I feel like resolutions are treated with more skepticism lately. Yeah I I think that it's just that you're setting yourself up for disappointment and And it's it's this little. Brief glimpse of optimism maybe fueled by the the the The hangover -ness of January. First trying to start a new leaf to turn over a new leaf. But I don't know what every year every year so you'd think that we would realize that we don't really died. I did like your years where I've kept my New Year's resolutions. I would. Someone suggested doing it every month rather than for a whole year so that worked it would work through like April which is still better than not working at all but yeah even I. I am a sucker for these kind of cultish self improvement things I meditate A. You know that's why you defend religion sometimes because you secretly just I want to be in some sort of group that will tell you exactly what silly thing to do next. I crave ritual or at least I crave it in theory when I actually am presented scented with of being involved in some sort of community like that. I always balk at it. No fuck it but I we know that there is a part of music. Craze ritual and there is a psychology maybe at some point. We'll talk about it. There is a psychology of like how how to successfully change your habits. You know there's work out there on that and you need to like make it specific enough you know. It can't just be a better person has to be like I'm going to do. And then you get really specific and then then you deal with all of the barriers. That are up. It's it's they're I think. Habits are like magic. It's incredible it's like you. You take something that you don't want to do and it takes a big force of will to do it and then you make it a habit and then like this is what biking to work has become for me now it takes a like a supreme act of will for me not to bike to work whereas before I would be looking for every excuse to not bike. Oh look like I might rain and now it's really hard for me. Psychologically to not bike to work. That's also true with meditating. It's true like you take something that starts Out being hired and then once it's a habit it's just the opposite. It's the it's what you want to do. It's like I think. Habits are the most under emphasized thing in the world world. Like that's all we should be thinking about as habits pretty much is just like a non consciously performing I mean this is it's your content ism that AH resisted. It's like everything has to be this autonomous choice but that's just not how we're wired. Well the one habit that I keep trying to build and I've actually been good since since about September of exercising Routinely not every day. But but I think one of the big things for me is is. You'RE GONNA fail right so so at some point you're going to fail to meet whatever goal you had for yourself and it's those moments the failure that can really derail me so right now I I went. I was in California for two weeks and I didn't have the chance to exercise as much so now back in my regular life and now that extreme force of will kicks in again because like I'm out of the habit right it just it doesn't take long so I I can't get down on myself for not having exercise for two weeks. I have to just say it's exercising. Today is better than not having exercise today. Yeah and it's really really hard. It's like someone used the analogy of it's like you gather a ball of yarn and it takes a long time together a ball of yarn into a ball. But then when you drop it it's all gone and it just the psychological barrier when you've had a habit this is like swimming with me when you lose it and then two you have to go back to an earlier point like really GonNa do sixteen laps and that's going to be hard for me exactly biking to work. That's that's tying an exercise to something that you have to do anyway. I think that's A. That's a really good way to do it. Oh you know rather than having to do a whole brand new thing like this is in in the service of meeting a goal. That's why honestly one of the reasons I got a dog because I know I'm going to have to walk it. It's good to have an excuse to exercise. Yeah be outside meet. People dogs are so good for just getting you to be more active. So this is the new. You very bad wizards everybody we are self help. PODCAST now Him Ferris like has to watch his audience. Because we're going to take it. We're take it from all the STOIC podcasts. We are right now. All about self improvement on very bad wizards. That's right. You know the second breath because I'm GONNA do some push ups all right. So what are we talking about. Today we are talking about Justin. It's an incredible movie in the second segment by cure occur show called raw chaman. But but I I something not quite as right is great. Yeah so you showed this to me because you. You got it from euro-sceptic once again. Thank you nurse skeptic for improving your you're tweeting habits to better better fit our show. This is something I can't believe we haven't talked about this broad topic before but this is an article all that is just should annoy anybody who knows anything about psychology but it's in Forbes. I don't understand but it's called when your Lizard Brain Burns you out in short circuits your career to your inbox slog. Overwhelms you the colleague who fails to meet is part of the teams deadline infuriates. You A CO worker talks over you in a meeting and you see with anger your computer crashes and you slam your fists so a bunch of examples but turns out temblor at this is all because You have a lizard brain deep inside you that that it is a an evolutionary remnant of when we were all lizards apparently and this is. What's causing all of the bad things to happen in your life? Well it's causing your reaction to all the bad. It's rare overreaction to all which themselves can lead to further bad things but that yeah so so so the idea is and this is an idea that that actually came from psychologist neuroscientist back in the day. The idea that there are That evolution worked by building layers on top of each other of brain of brain areas. Such that our our earliest evolutionary ancestors had this part of our brain that deal solely with sort of reflexive responses to danger it's vigilant it's tuned to negative vity and it is emotional and causes immediate quick reactions to stimuli in our environment. We still have that. Even though thousands millions of years of ablution have layered on a smarter part of our Brain Mike the Mammalian brain the prefrontal cortex that we have that can reason and think about stuff that old part Lizard Blaine brain still kicks in every once in a while So are lizards emotional. Like I don't. I don't know why it's the Chilean Braid. And it comes from like this triune in theory of brain put a link to Kapadia and it was like the ripped helium brain is 'cause 'cause reptiles are really old and so so apparently reptiles calls were really shitty to each other and very paranoid about very paradigm so this is neuro skeptic. I forget how he described it. It was something like a delicious combination of Neuro Babbo. He didn't say evolutionary psychology. Although this is this is if you wanted make fun of evolutionary psychology this is your Forbes article and also just this kind of self help self improvement. Get Your Act together you you can solve all your problems attitude and so I started. Just trying to excerpt the funniest passages or yeah but then I realized that I was just pretty much exiting the whole thing. But here's one of my favorites quicken protective your lizard. Brain residing in your DNA has an important evolutionary origin. It kept your ancestors from getting eaten by wild animals or attacked by vicious trapped in business tribes. So I mean it's very hard to even try to Parse this like like what does it mean your Lizard Brain residing in your DNA. That's what that's the exact sentence that I texted her about to like brains resided Ama we now know not to nitpicky on this otherwise very accurate article but start resided But also if this is from our time as lizards Lizard tribes well vicious Lizard Tribes Ten. It was just. I mean there's tribalism. Adam is a big problem. The part that really started getting to me. Because that's what I was reading this. I was like well. I think you had this feeling to that. Well this is just sort of maybe decent decent advice with a layer of neuro babble and you know fake science but but maybe it's just good advice but but it matters because because there's these weird empirical claim so like he says no one can trigger. Nobody can trigger your Lizard Brain without your consent consent which is just the weirdest claim if the lizard brain is so reactive and responding automatically threats in the environment then Whoa can trigger it without your consent. That's seems to defeat the purpose of having Lizard Brain and and they make this claim that that once are- actions kickin that are from your Lizard Brain. It takes ninety seconds or the chemical reaction to actually kick in. So that's how long you have. Yes you always have a choice to respond with either action or reaction regardless how small or a big the circumstances in a recent Forbes interview brain researcher Dr Jill Volpi Taylor told me when a person has a reaction to something in their environment. There's a ninety second chemical process that happens. Any remaining emotional response is just the person choosing to stay in that emotional loop in other words when you react to a situation you make a choice to do so an unconscious choice perhaps but a choice nonetheless. It's it's it's it's just like if you to try to make sense of this to try to even make it coherent. Try to even know what this could mean. I don't know if it's possible you're you're making a choice and unconscious choice. Perhaps well what does that mean. Do we have control over this or not. What and then and then? Where is this data coming from? What is this ninety? Ninety second chemical process that is happening that during that time. It's like it's just that window that we have control to either exacerbated or restrain it or what is ninety second ninety second. Seems like a long time. You know this isn't the whole point that at your spill. The old advised to count to ten. Like you have to force yourself to wait. Wait a few seconds before you're at if we had a ninety second window we wouldn't do a whole lot of shit. She's cut you off on the highway and he likes fucking minute and a half later. You're like Oh fuck you. It's like watching a video joe where the audio is lashing most of our skype And but yeah as you point out this. This is like the one of the biggest of all of our discussions of neuroscience is that the the attribution of the self to something non brainy or some like where it's like. Your brain does something and you have to choose whether or not to let it. It's like wait. Where's the you like? What the fuck like what's the? Yeah here's a part that I that I feel like was it was. It was almost going to say something wise but but it's such a stretch. What are the signs means of Lizard Brain burn out? No one is immune from Lizard Brain burnout in recent years. The incidences of burnout have risen in alarming numbers. Seven Thousand Scalp Study of nearly seven thousand five hundred full time employees found twenty. Three percents reported feeling burnt out with an additional forty four percent peeling feeling burnt out. Sometimes two thirds of the workforce so I can relate. I I've definitely felt these. People elected the Gallup survey confirmed that it was Lizard Brain burnout or just well. That's where the science has come in the science to explain the Gallup results your Lizard Brain. So he describes bird. What is your Lizard? Brain is a major contributor to burn out because it never sleeps. Oh that's interesting so there aren't sleeping at all. It works overtime on always on a twenty four seven alert for anything that threatens you feeling threatened constantly on guard scanning hyper vigilant worrying processing discerning and reacting time time and time and again two things you can't control is exhausting not only leads to Lizard Brain burnout but also professional alien and career suicide my lizard brain did it. It's so when it says that it's on twenty four seven. Is the Lizard brain making me dream is. That's what I couldn't I was like well like like speaking. How much is metaphor? And how much is a mix of metaphorical language and actual neuroscience but obvious. It's Lavigne though like it's just like throwing the words in at times like here's just another stat that I just. I love to know if this is even like like to. If this is this is based on anything at all or is just something that guy totally made up for protection. Your Lizard Brain has a baked in negativity bias. Even in those studies show that ninety percent of worries are false alarms that never manifest you're listening drain prioritizes and remembers the negative experiences in attempts to prevent lice unexpected curve balls from ambition. You like what studies show that ninety percent of worries are false alarm. Now I wanted I the best one of my questions. I don't even know what to make of that a lot of little actually like if I'm worried that like okay I can see like when I worry about someone breaking into my house. Maybe you know that doesn't happen. Maybe happens once in a lifetime or something in at least where I've lived but I'm worry I worry about dying pretty much gonNA percent. That will manifest avenge a wet like like described. The study that shows that ninety percent of worries are false alarms. Don't you're always defending ringing. Studies data experiment. That's right that's like ten people into going to die on hamlet ninety percent if it says ninety percent ninety you presented exactly ninety percent so one way to understand this is that it is just as self help and maybe it's not the best self help piece because you know cheesy right. It's like you're not looking at the good parts of your life. You're always focused on the bag parts but maybe what the the science stuff is doing here as in potentially other you know better more competent. Science Ryan's accounts is. It's just making the point more salient and getting people to you know we always talk about Molly Crockett. Those old studies that she did. Where when you add brain just add brain data? Even though it's irrelevant it makes makes people believe the study more than the front and then also. Yeah so maybe that's what this stuff is. It's almost like e could almost take like a postmodern performance art spin of it where it's like it's trying to get this point across and this is the way that it can do that in the in the same way that like you know the Stanford prison experiment in one sense didn't really in an experimental way. Show anything but as a piece of drama to dramatically present. This idea that sometimes as the situation is is powerful and we can adopt roles that seem like they're out of character for us just because we're the roles like it did a good job of doing that even if it might have been drama in an almost literal sense as it's like heat heat kind of might have instructed the guards to behave that way. It still does it. This is why people still talk about it today. Right like it's it's a really interesting way of presenting this cesis about human behavior which is probably true. To some extent although the the Stanford prison as an experiment doesn't give evidence for that. It does make it salient to us in a lot of other things might not have. Yeah I I agree I mean. I think that there is some wisdom that is being communicated here so like the gist of this article. We've been pulling quotes but but like the gist is basically you have responses and reactions. That that you can regulate and your life will be better if you use some strategies to down regulate some some of your negative emotions or your initial reactions in that way. It's just like a dual process. There is like it's no different than saying system. One is sometimes stupid and the stray so let system to again adding the language of neuroscience is doing I think just what you said like making it sound fancier and truer I eat bugs me. I guess because it's wrong and I don't want that you know it. Just just for the sake of truth and may be the wrongness of it will undermine what other people say when they say right things. Maybe people will either lose faith in any of the neuroscience. Well well they should be listened to neuroscience for advice but just the wrong of it pisses me off so it just so happened indebting. My colleague. Michael Goldstein sent me a an article. That's impressed in current versions of psychological science. which has an awesome title called? Your brain is not onion with a tiny reptile inside. Yeah and it. Basically it lays out some of the history of this view that that there is a reptilian brain that your cortex was built. What's on it? And that is distinctly human and that that's the seat of self control and planning and and they basically try to to show how this is an old idea. That's it's actually so wrong. That that It has impeded progress in psychology to have this view and they give like good evolutionary reasons for like why we'll develop in such linear fashion with like layers of our brain being added over time. And as I was saying this is a theory that was proposed by neuroscientist. Like Ah Neuro. anatomist himself. McLean and it's to be honest. An idea that I was brought up believing in my early psychology classes and I don't know you know the the authors of this article or trying to say that this this is Dane. It's dangerous to keep believing this I don't think the Forbes articles markle's dangerous is just stupid so maybe it does help somebody if it helps say sometimes I go home and my family will have read some article on the brain like. Did you know that your brain does this and I'll be like yeah like what they're saying make sense like the. They're giving good advice like am. Megan be sit there and tell them what actually the brain doesn't doesn't work that way right but on this podcast for fuck sake I will. I mean in Nat Sense. It's it's it's like the same defense that people give religion. Yeah you know by the the Lizard. Brain hypothesis doesn't cause people select collect just blow up buildings. Yeah but also doesn't cause people to light joined the Peace Corps or because of the ninety seconds. I I that's it. This is such an absurd example. Of just it's what the French would call an importer qua-. Ah It's just anything I just. It's just this jumble of jargon and self help staff throw neuroscience evolutionary ordinary psychology just like studies about negativities and worries and how we were too much like doesn't matter if this has any basis basis in reality will just throw it in you know what what I was trying to think like. Why why did this get you could just puncture an in published rushed and you can just picture an editor saying like? Hey why I want you to write something that links neuroscientist too bad neuroscience too bad habits that could serve as advice is you know and somebody was under pressure to bring this shit together into into a coherent article giving advice and then I was just lamenting that. Yeah in D. people just need to write articles so that online outlets can get ads and get published and that's just depressing. It's just content. It's I wish people would write less. Well this guy is definitely not writing less if you look at his bio. He's the author of two novels and forty forty nonfiction books. Nonfiction should put in quotes right in forty fictious. UH-HUH HASHTAG chill. Turn off your job and turn on your life. William Morrow and the long selling chain to the desk a guide ride for work on their partners and children and the clinicians who treat them New York University press. I mean if this is true and this isn't just another thing that he's made up app you know and all the other things like NPR being a NBC nightly news. And all this stuff. It's it's his strength. It's a little weird that he he would write this and that Forbes would publish it but as you say like they're just so hungry for content right now I think websites they'll do that. This this guy really published Book Books Academic Pass Night. This seems like a step down trying to make ends meet stuff all the time. They wrote an article praising very bad wizards at some point. So they'll publish anything all right Let's talk about something we'd love and not something that we it can be snarky about. Because that's something that will give a certainty about what truth is yes. We'll be right back to talk about rush among Roselawn. That's how I assume Japanese people pronouncing this week's episode. A very bad wizards is brought to you in in part by prolific. One of our favorite sponsors Tamla you and I got into a little bit of a fight. Would you say last time about which they call it a fight. I don't know if I know a tiff or whatever you call it. When married people after fifty years argue with each other? But anyway it was about vowed generalize ability and it was about what we can learn from a psychological studies and I think you know science science. Humans is hard One of the things that we can agree on is that if you're gonNA make claims about about psychology and about how humans work you need to have decent evidence and that means that you need to have have multiple studies that means you have to have a diverse set of populations to study. You need to get all your ducks in a row. In order to due to say that you've discovered anything about human nature. And that's what prolific does. That's why prolific got started pro is an online data collection service. This that was made by social psychologists for anybody interested in doing research on humans. They have access to seventy thousand thousand active participants in North America and in Europe. They have survey takers at a regular citizens. And if you want to do the study or a survey that just looks at Democrats or Republicans or African Americans or Old Jews you can. That's the demographic. Hey you're not you're not at you. So in other words they don't they don't just pull undergrads who are trying to get extra credit who who are stoned and now. That's that's how I had to do all of my. I used to give out candy bars to do one page surveys a now I realize now that you just said that that was definitely hitting this donor demographic doc I got the munchies. Let's do bizarre. I Dunno through the guy on the trolley love. But you know it's probably isn't the first online data service. A one of the biggest most widely used one is Amtrak but jerk wasn't built for for this specific kind of data collection and one of the problems that enter cazes that there are professional. Survey takers the data. Quality can be tough. You got to do a lot of data cleaning because there are a lot of people who don't take it seriously on Amtrak may because they're getting paid shit. And that's what prolific. It tries to focus on the quality of the data. They use machine learning to improve. Data Quality Monitor the data and look at all of the feedback. They get from researchers they take steps to make sure that there are professional survey takers prolific easily. Lets you run Longitudinal and follow up studies. You can keep track of the participants who took your initial survey and you can track them over time. That's an invaluable for certain kinds of research questions. So prolific is giving away fifty dollars to very bad wizards listeners who wanna give online sampling ago. 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He came with more bombs molecules and air Welcome back to very bad wizards. This is the time of the podcast where we like to take a moment to thank all the people people who are so generously supporting us in all the different ways that you support us and one of them is just to get in touch with us. St Mail US tweet at us to participate in the conversation around our episodes. If you would like to do that you can email email us. Very bad wizards at G MAIL DOT COM. You can tweet at us at Tamla at pease. At very bad wizards words you can follow us on instagram. No longer like us on facebook because that is defunct unfortunately originally you can rate us on I tunes. You can join the conversation on the very bad wizards sub read it lately on the sub reddit. There's been some discussion of the episodes. I I also got. I got a little offended by a couple of comments and just wrongly offended too because they were more joking around than I than I. Do you react Lizard Brain I did I got defensive with my lizard brain and you know like if I had known about the ninety seconds and so but then there's also been just like some short fiction the recent. Yeah so there's a lot of stuff going on there You can join in the conversation every once in a while we'll jump in and be either defensive or Or kind generous I always am. Yes frank that's why you don't need any New Year's resolutions throat. Yeah rate us on I tunes tune subscribe to us on I tunes. That's always good. Subscribe to us on spotify. That's great too and thank you really enjoy all the contact we have with you. We certainly do. And if you want to support us in more tangible ways please feel free. We love you for doing that. All of those of you. Who Do you can go to our support page on our bed was dot com website? You'll see a link to the support page or you can go straight to our patron page age. We love our our patrons. We've tried to put up some good material recently. We decided what our next one is going to be. I don't think so. But we shed. We we in any suggestions So go there. Patriot dot com slash. Very bad wizards or you can on our support page. Find the link to give us a one time or recurring donation on pay pal. 'cause not all of you have access to Patriot. We really appreciate it. We're very very grateful for all of the ways in which contact us but specially Grateful for those who go out of their way to To keep our lights on keep the podcast. Thank you very much. Yes thank you. And and we will have another bonus EPA. We were pretty good about it last year. I think we live like five of them. That's like a lot of concerts. wrote it is really want quickly mentioned that I was on The sold you out again. I went on Mark. Lenzi Myers Not Partial examined life but new podcast. Pretty much pop to discuss watchmen so Find that podcast on the latest episode. It was fun to talk about watchmen and partly out of revenge revenge porn. Maybe I went on a was a it was an interview for an APP. An APP on stoicism called STOA STOA I didn't know you WANNA yeah. We had a nice conversation on a guy name is caleb onto arrows and his APP is called Stoa we talked about honor and stoicism and the relationship we talked about Sedan and the play Electra by socrates. And it was fun so so. How is your thing with the partially examined life motherfuckers? It's right it's just one of them and and then To others on this podcast it was much more civil than we are but it was a good. It was a good discussion for three other people with very the very different perspectives and backgrounds. Actor musician writer and yeah. We did a deep dive into the watchman the mainly the TV show Lindelof TV. Show that I think is great the but also the graphic novel and the movie It was fun I got. I got a nerd Boehner. I you very generously sent me. The watchmen graphic novel. Little over halfway through it. I always I read things that you saw a haven't really enjoying it so actually to each to-do. Let's talk about watchmen. Yeah bonus APP. That would be awesome I'll put a link to both of those said that we just mentioned so. Let's talk about this This movie this is a nineteen fifty film by Akira Kurosawa. It was his big break internationally. Finally he had done a couple of other movies before this but this was what made him famous. It won the Venice Golden Lion Award at the Venice Film on festive. All in even though its own studio didn't WanNA submit it because it was thought of as too weird and not representative of Japanese cinema at at the time If you haven't seen it yet you can find it on Amazon. You can find a version on YouTube And also this thing canopy happy if you ha- if you're attached to a university In a university library. There's something called Canopy K. N. O. P. Y.. which has a ton of the criterion collection movies and a bunch of other movies that you will just have free access deal when you can put on your TV at home Roku or whatever I had no idea about this are either until a year now. It's it's incredible and I think probably some percent of our listeners have access to it I think even in a public library subscription subscription might give you some access to it so so yeah. There's a lot of ways to see it. I hadn't seen it in about I think at least fifteen years. I don't know why I waited that long. A love to revisit movies and so I didn't Roma I kind of remembered what everybody remembers about it including I think people who haven't even seen it you know I think it's such a well known. Come like part of the vernacular phenomenon the rash Amman effect But here's what I remembered was a take took place a long time ago. Oh and in fact. It's in the eleventh century. It takes place outside of Kyoto Japan. And we get famously. Four different accounts of the same incident. Here's what we know about. The Samurai and his wife are walking through the forest. And they're ambushed by a bandit The bandit ties up. The Samurai forces himself on the wife and Samurai is stabbed to death. And a woodcutter finds the body. Those are I think are the only things that are not in dispute Within the for accounts. And and you the woodcutter and the priest are present at the court proceedings which we see in flashback form and then there is kind of flashbacks within flashbacks and now we have to try to sort through as the judge and the the witness accounts are presented like we are the judge directly into the camera. So this is probably the ultimate philosophy movie but more than the Matrix more than the major. Yeah it touches on epistemology metaphysics ethics subjectivity objectivity truth good and evil. So that's what I I remembered about it would. I did not remember at earliest. That well was just. How incredible the filmmaking is it? has these three sets the raw chaman gate. Where we're we're hearing these stories? and that's where the flashback. We get the flashbacks. The courtyard where the testimony is given and then the forest which is just incredible on their each. have their own cinematic character and then it's just a strange movie. It's trippy right. I one thing I've I it's it's gotta be so long. I didn't remember that one of the testimony comes from just the dead Samarai through a medium. I saw the movie maybe three years ago. You and I didn't remember either. And and it's increased such a striking seen. We're getting from this medium. WHO's a woman speaking in what I take? It is the samurais voice. So it's a real kind of impressionistic trip. Just such watch a masterpiece like it's faulting up in my all time favorite movies. So that's what I think about it. Generally what he what did you think about. Yeah I mean I love the movie. I agree with with all of the things that you said about the the. Take the relevance of the interesting questions at tossing in psychology to is a lot about memories about attribution and and and I mean in reminded me a lot of the work on that we covered on the totalitarian. Go where people are motivated in this self serving way to remember things the way that they that makes them look good. There's there's a lot there but I didn't I think it's because late in life I I really started fairly than life to even appreciate some of these aspects of filmmaking and like impart did this podcast but also people like the the every framed painting the just the youtube video essays about filmmaking. That are so interesting lead. Lead me to see things the way never saw before but even before that I remember being struck that this movie movie even though it's obviously it's all black and white the audio is Kinda Shitty There's a Mar.. There's a maternity to the way KRASULA law makes his films the way that he handles his camera. It seems as if he could be a modern filmmaker. I it just. It's it's like watching a modern movie in terms of the way that he frames things that he moves the camera the way that he he uses the camera to be sort of another character. Victor it's it's amazing like it's IT'S I. I was struck this time by how somebody can be so fucking good at their craft at a time when there weren't a whole lot of examples for him. Yeah I mean right well. It's certainly not in terms of the structure of the movie. I think it was pretty ready by unique at that time. Yeah and the film making I think is just. It's it's incredible. I guess one of the it was one of the first to shoot directly directly into the sun and just that whole that whole opening. It's it's not. The opening. The opening scene is at the gate. But when the woodcutter is describing finding the body and you get a flashback to him going through the forest cutting through the forest with his assets and just an and that whole sequence. It's like two minutes law. It's just the yeah. The camera movement the way you get like the shadows on his face pretty much every scene in the forest where people are moving through the forest. Yeah is just a wondrous thing to watch. I mean the cavalry's. The camera underneath woodcutter get tight on his face and get the straight yes sometimes cameras moving. Sometimes it's still right in front of it. It's it's amazing and and like I said like not knowing that much of the history of the stuff. I just know that this I can at least feel the vibe that this is the work feels like the work of a modern director just working with black and white and I think I pavel higher opinion of some of the older directors. I mean the third man Orson Welles. You know that stuff had been had happened before but I don't but but some of that some of the ways in which uses the camera I you don't even see in those and more. I mean the the use of shadows and stuff like that. That's all amazing easing but but again I just hang in there and you just the way that he moves the camera with the characters in the way you're walking you're you're walking through the forest with your head up like you're seeing the trees the sunlight through the trees. Yeah it's it's yeah it's amazing but yeah I'm sure there were good directors before but I take it that this is one of the reasons why Kerhsaw was hailed as such an influence on on others. Yeah it's it's also just. Even though it is in some ways the perfect example of like the power of cinema. It has a very play like feel fail to like a theater. Play like a drama because they just have these these three sets and very limited number of characters was like six or seven characters And and and it's just a very spare story it's like it. has this kind nine of almost not absurdist but a little like Beckett. Waiting for Godot where. There's not that much you know it's not like you get these crowds of people. Even though it's it's there's court proceedings going on we see three or four people at the most in the court proceedings. UC Three people at the gate Amec's three people. There's a lot of threes. There's ways in which the blocking of three people is so cool throughout the movie But let's talk about the plot and let's talk about sort of what's famous about it. Which is this episode to Malaysia? Coll- just cluster. Fuck that might apply to pretty much every aspect of our lives and how to understand that because the movie starts out the first two lines of it as our I don't understand I just don't understand. It's the woodcutter just muttering to himself in this torrential rain at the gate outside of Kyoto. The rush Amman Gate. This huge. Just it looks almost like a a temple. That's it's been half destroyed. And they keep kind of tearing it apart as they were going as well and it's just the rain is is is incredible incredulous it's so powerful. And then this commoner comes in and the priest and the woodcutter have just come from the court proceedings and it's like they are they're wrecked from it they can't they call it like the strangest ten most terrible thing they've ever heard and when it's described like just a man was killed the the Camara's stories like just one man killed what's like who cares like there's probably five bodies up on top of this gate right now that are unclaimed. There's all all these Bandits coming through all the time plague famine fiery with these wars this is at a very turbulent time and Japanese history. Why I what's the big deal and I guess the big deal is that it's this is an existential like problem about the human condition condition? And that's the thing that is just so deeply Destroying these these two characters at the outset. They they've lost their faith in humanity especially the priest says that pretty much explicitly just from this strange Enj- story right so you're like what the hell has has made them lose so much faith and so so like you said we get these flashbacks. And you hear the account of the event that you outlined earlier from what ends up being for different perspectives but during the proceedings. It's three perspectives right. So so you want to go through the difference in the three the three yeah and then the fourth too because I think some people think that the fourth might be the real one tonight. Yes yeah I definitely want to talk about that because it's Structures it so that that you know there might be CSI Miami. Tammy where you're like. Oh yeah then. But then he gives you reasons to doubt that gives you reasons to doubt that too. Yeah let's go through it so the first thing we get which is also a flashback testimony though is just the Guy Finding the body in that. Read the walk through the woods sequence and the preseason the yeah yeah on the priests seeing the Samurai also that's testimony to It's just so interesting that it is told from. This perspective is one of the most innovative innovative use of flashbacks. I don't think anybody had used flashbacks in a way where you could out the truth or you have to doubt the truth in the flashbacks before flashbacks. There's something about the nature of them. Where where if you're seeing it then? It must have happened and in this case. I know the can't have happened exactly in the way because you get these contradictory flashbacks. I mean this is like one of my favorite things to talk about. uh-huh the mechanism of this. where the filmmakers giving US flashbacks which as you say would normally be like okay? Well it's the God's eye view of the events that occurred and end and now I'm led to doubt now doubting with the filmmaker has told me just like The judge presumably is doubting what the the high witnesses are saying. Yes right and just confused and infused at a very deep fundamental level. Okay so so. Let's go and talk about the three different accounts. So the first is a the bandits account. How Joe Morrow so so I take it the performance? The over the top performance is in part in large by referring to his performance. This yeah yeah and you know I was watching Chink with Nikki and it. It took her out of it much more than it took me out of it like I. It's it's a caricature of a crazy villain right. So Oh so he is the best. I could describe it as like the joker from the cartoons where he's just like his movements or big big hit he. He has cacophonous laughter than interrupts everything. And he has these very clear. Vivid facial expressions of growls and grimaces is very much years. And so it's like I think the part of this was just to let you know from the from the outset that this was the band. This was the presumably bad guy of the story an archetype I think Curacao Allah and I I I actually really liked this. Guy's performance He he wanted it to be like a silent movie almost with sound and and it has the look of a silent movie and also like I think some of the performances of a silent movie. I got into it. I liked this guy along couldn't constantly scratching and like batting mosquitoes off of him laughing at random almost This this crazy laugh but but anyway so he says he was found by the side of a river and they can't even agree about why he was by the river. Some guy found him tied him up brought to the court arrows in his back. Like what. So that's what I thought at first but I don't think so in the second time I watched did I realize no. It was just that he stole the Samrai's Eros the guy who who found him says that he fell off his horse he says has that he just drank some water and got really sick so all who says got diarrhea own. Yeah so all already. We don't have any agreement on what happened and but But then he says that he just happened to be in the forest when the band when the Samurai and his wife where passing and a breeze is the thing that made the Ameri die and the breeze. It lifted the veil from the woman's Woman's face and as soon as he sees her face he f- He fell in love with her felt like he had to have her. He had to have her. And there's a lot of the movement of the wind and of the trees like like there's a lot of movement that's is involved in the nature in the scenes and to to make that a causal have a causal effect on the plot is really interesting. Yeah and the music like the little little truly like little tinkling piano. You know like the right when he sees it and that that's like a Motif in the in the score that comes comes back to So anyway he he does this. He says he didn't want to kill the Samurai so he does this sort of con job above saying that he found a bunch of swords and he shows the Samurai the swords. He wants to show him the swords of feel come through the forest with them and again the shots of him mis shedding through the forest blake are just so so good so he kinda gets him to this isolated spot attacks Axum ties him up and then brings the the woman back there because he wants the woman all of a sudden he gets very jealous of the SAM. I'm running wants the woman to see how pathetic the Samurai is and to pass. I love by the way that like obviously the way to Kana Samurais to say hey that you found a bunch of cool towards. I didn't know it's that easy And then he decides to have sex with the woman in front of the Samurai. And this isn't like this actually really affecting seen right. You'd like shame on the SAMRAI's face when he sees like that he's so helpless and he can't prevent it and then there's that trilling piano but it's much croupier version of it. And and and then of course in this bandit story afterwards he kind of falls in love because the woman was so fierce and tried to fight him off with a dagger Agar he kind of fell in love with her and says you know like run away with me. Yep wait hold on before you get there you even though when he was trying to rape or you're talking about after the after the now. Well yeah I I did it out of order. The dagger was before yeah But but importantly he says that she like she turns like after trying to rape her she actually turns to be kind of seduced by him like she actually gives in where it was like. Well it was a star started as rape. But she saw how hot I was. I know yes right. It started as far as rape but then she sort of clutches him as if she just. She's overpowered by his sensual. And he is very animalistic right even in the shots of him in in the forest like these just looks like a an animal on the prowl. Yes absolutely in an in in this version she is. She's got spirit. She's got spunk. She's but in the end she sort of gives in to him and seems to like it. But then says I can't can't live with the shame of this so With both of you alive. Cut Him loose and I will go with the survivor. She says and it's very honorable. The bandits telling right he cuts the rope. He gives him his sword back. They have this fight and it's like I I as far as I can tell them. Not An expert but it's a good source absolutely in comparison to think of doing what comes at the end which I love by by the way. She says that she can't have to at least in the translation. Two men no her shame. Yeah I was like wait. Does this just mean that. She can't live with two human having had sex with her or that the shame of the actual sexual assault. It's not clear to me. Well I know the shame of public knowledge of it. It from two men like like honor related. I understand but his honor about having been sexually assaulted in that being shame or just having had had sex with two men like el-sisi. I think it's having sex with tuna. Yeah Yeah especially since on his story. Yeah he impeach she was a willing participant in. Yeah sort of willing. Elliott's midway will is right. Yes he says is that we cross swords. He didn't almost didn't WANNA kill him. The Samurai after he beats him because they crossed swords twenty three times. Nobody had ever lasted more than twenty times with with the bandit before. So he gives him an honorable death but then the woman takes off and he loses her So that's his story. Yeah before we get to the woman's story I WanNa take a quick moment. Oh meant to talk about give. Well as many of you know we've been doing spots. Forgive well Really the last few months that that is the fantastic organization that researches charity to help you maximize the impact of your donation and this past season. podcast cast listeners. Like you and like me and like David. Wright we gave over five hundred thousand dollars to to give wells recommended charities in the past giving season give well wants to thank all of you and we want to thank all of you for helping to support some of the most effective. 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You'll find all of give wells research for free as well. As a short list of the most effective charities charity's they've found you can donate directly through their website and they charge no fees and take no cut. Thank you to give well for for all the good work that you do and for sponsoring this episode of very bad wizards Then it's the wife's turn to due to give her testimony again. All of these testimonies are given. They're looking right at you. The audience member. We never see the judge presumably. They're telling the judge but it's a very nice. We never we never had jury. We never see anybody other than the people who are giving testimony. And the the woodcutter in the priests background and what's great is how I mean as many people point out the these are actors who are who are portraying the same character in four very different ways and so the even the body language of of the the actors is very different the different stories and it's easy to to to lose sight of that. Because you really you know if you get lost in the movie of course you think these are different accounts of of the event but but they're doing a great job and so the wife's body language is when she's assigned stories is she is on the floor like just groveling and just devastated by the events. They also answer questions from the judge. But we don't like it's just like it's literally like we are asking the questions questions and what's weird is that that didn't like I. I had to pay attention to Saudi. Didn't bother me like it didn't take away from the. Yeah the but it didn't seem that weird to have them answering questions to a silent faceless judge in watching it the second time like the first testimony is from the woodcutter who found the body and they ask some important questions that will come up including what he found and they ask him the pin him down and say so so you didn't find anything else and he says No. I didn't find anything else I but I assume they ask. You didn't find anything else. We don't know what they actually but he says No. I didn't find anything. Tell tell us the woman story story so she says that abandoned touch Amaru left right after having raped her and that she is begging she begs her husband to forgive her And then the you know what a good job of this coldness that she says on her account the husband has just completely changed. He's now giving her this like completely cold response after the rape like rejecting her I basically like her whatever has happened and has has made him not be able to see her in the same way. It's so much just contempt n-i-l-l-a-s contently. Yeah and she's begging him to forgive her and take her back So then but but his his response is very clear so she frees him and she begs him to kill her so so that she she would be at peace but he's just a fucking cold. It actually was striking. How Ella Eh? Just that guy staring into the camera made me feel like a little piece of totally. There's a couple of Times Ryan's where just the look into the camera. Just made me feel like I was getting that. Look exactly. Yeah and she she. He is so distressed at the way he's responding to her. She faints with dagger This this dagger that has a Pearl inlay that we now know to be valuable apple. She paints with that dagger in her hand and she wakes up and finds that her husband is dead with a dagger in his chest. And I tried to kill herself. Sorry yeah the. She goes to a pond and she tries to throw her in and the shot of the pond is so key to just like I. Don't even I know what it's doing the light shimmering and the thing but it just is. It's it's beautiful. It's you know this is. This is what Martin Scorsese was talking about when he was talking about cinema. Like as opposed to you know new marvel narratives through your hissy fit. This is talking about her. Better ways to communicate it but yes This is fucking cinema but yeah like and it's weird like I agree like her. Her posture is is so repentant and and docile as In in it except at the end after she is has described killing her husband or like accidentally fainting with the dagger and killing and killing him. The shot of her. She's kind of leaning back in an almost like sensual way. You know what I mean like. She's leaning back and then there are these two guys in the background. She's leaning back. She almost looks like she's just had sex. And you know like she's had sex like smoking a cigarette right like whatever and it's It's it's very strange that that was chosen at that time to have her be be more of like a sexual figure at by the way what is up with those eyebrows. Yeah and that was one of the Times that I noticed Eh. Most prominently is when she's in that kind of leaned back position on our hands. I guess at this is there must have been some. I'm sort of traditional way of painting. One's face or decorate wearing wearing makeup but it looks as if her realize browse have been shaved off and above above them in their place are like what I can only describe as sideways Hitler. Mustaches looking look almost drawn on with charcoal our coal very but apparently she was a huge she was like Marilyn Monroe of Japan at the time. Yes I mean like AAC so so now we've had two stories. They're totally different on the sense of not like they're still the Dead Samurai but in her telling she did it in the guy's telling he did it in her telling the bandit ran away right after having sex with her and laughing in in this maniac all laugh and then and in his telling he tried to stay with her and she ran off. So there's two there's just a bunch of things. They can't both be true but at the same time they play it with such connection that you believe it as it's happening what was immediately a bit jarring to me was that these accounts were different. Not only in like the events that led up to them where you're like well who knows what anybody said but in one he dies from sort another he dies from Jagger. And you're like can't somebody look at what the wound was. Is that killed him. Like the eleventh century the easiest but yes right in fact the dagger sword thing is constantly alternating. That's an and I just. The courtyard is so spare. It's just like this. The big bright spot where it's like a really big sandbox or something with the two guys is in the background. It's not totally clear. Why the two guys are there in the background and nobody else's and also we should say that in-between the stories you have this commoner? WHO's very cynical guy you know for him? This isn't surprising like He. He says it's human to lie. We can't even be honest with ourselves most of the time but he doesn't care as long as it's entertaining like he'll listen to the lies and then after her story he he says well you know women they fool everyone with their tears even themselves so there is this explicitly the sort of throwing out this idea of both lying to others to make yourself look better but also lying to yourself like the you don't even know in a way that reminded me a lot of the truth. Fact drew the feeling. Talk to me to very much Yeah the commoner says has some of my favorite lines the the the ever the cynic cynic like is there. Anyone who's really good man just wants to forget the bad stuff like like stop being so shaken like at this He. He says that after he hears that there is a dead man's testimony and that has to be the pre says that has to be true because he refuses refuses to believe that a dead person can. That's when he says like that's when he gives it pulls out the goodness is just make believe he's that's right yeah At first I was like I had the same intuition now. Goes can't lie. Aren't they under some some sort of constraint upon line right so so then we have this scene which is just bizarre and awesome. You are an amazing. I was going to say yeah. I don't know like how should we describe it first and then try to talk about how we're supposed to understand I can't it like what are the different understanding it. Yeah because it's very very simply they bring in a medium to talk to the dead husband so he can give his testimony and so I took it at that moment that we were to take at face value that this was in fact the testimony of the husband. Mike that this in in fact is the ghost of the husband. Think well at least that that makes it more interesting. It certainly felt in that way it. It's his voice. It's his voice of the details that that would be on an unknown by the by the medium herself golf with. That's the thing that I'm not sure about. So the voice you could. Maybe the mediums testimony itself. If it's a flashback. So maybe it is being remembered as if it was the samurais voice you know and I don't know that for sure it was definitely the same actor voice it sounds either. I don't either. I think that it makes the most sense to treat it at face value that this is or at least I think that the four accounts that are all different perhaps because of motivated self-deception is is more interesting. If it really is in fact the Samra except I agree but it's also kind of interesting. The medium has also motivated to it justify her existence. and Are you saying but she's not really a medium. Well I'm saying that it could be that this is just another element of our lack of being able to discern. What's real and what's not true? And what's not because the medium has just it's the same has the same incentives that everybody else does present as real an honorable and do an authentic at the very least we could we. It should at least be a question whether this is but I. I also agree that the way it's presented and and filmed homed it is. We're supposed to take it. I guess at face value. So what's the story The story is that That the The bandit tommorrow raped his wife and then asked his wife to like leave with him. Like come have have adventures with me and She accepts but then says well. You got to kill my husband because I can't I can't have had like there. Can't be apparently there can't exist to men who have had sex with me or something like that Or she would feel too guilty belonging to two men and abandon. That point is actually shocked by coldness that requests and he grabs her sort of angrily and the Samurai is at this point instill tied up and he tells the the Samurai that he has to you. Tell me what to do. I'll either kill your wife or I'll let her go and his he's he's offended by how she she's just completely betrayed her husband like at the drop of a hat he's like this bitch And so the Dead Samurai through the medium says for these words alone. I was ready to pardon his crime which which is a pretty interesting right in terms of the honor and what it meant to him they bros.. Before hose kind of moment I can alternate title. I think that was the working title of the process. But then then during this She escapes and the bandit runs after her. But but he comes back. Says Sardar's ran away. Samurai then grabs his wife stagger and kills himself and then he describes a describes various repower terms the it everything started disappearing as he killed himself. Everything went black but then somebody came and pulled the knife out of his trust which rich. It's an interesting detail that we haven't heard from other people who dagger right. And in fact the woodcutter then out as the flashback is ending ending were back now at the rush among gate and he says there was no dagger he was killed by a sort of like a how do a you know and Byu care. Yeah and I don't even I don't know if I was reading into it but I as I was watching it the second time I was looking at the woodcutters expression expression when the medium was saying there was another dagger or there was a dagger and I think he was subtly acting uncomfortable which has no then. That's definitely true. He gets very uncomfortable. And also when the bandit realizes hey what happened to the dagger. Why didn't I steal that to running so this house dagger not really checkoff staffing? Because it actually. I don't know if it actually went out for not but Yeah it's it's checkoffs quantum dagger chekhov's Schrodinger dagger on it is. Yeah I wanted to say really quickly though that I think that the addition of the detail that there was a dagger that got pulled off the body is perhaps an attempt to say like. Let's treat this as is the true testimony of the Samurai. Because I think that th in telling the story you want to see the compelling story is going to be the testimony of everybody somebody who is there to see it and you can't have a dead person. Tell a story. You need to find a way to get the SAMURAIS perspective even though he's dead so while I agree with you that this in in a in a perhaps medicines the undermining of our belief in any story because does a medium really know Within the story I think is supposed post to play the role of just like a placeholder for the samurais account. Yes agree and and I don't WanNa under emphasize how a strange it is like just. She's like dancing around like kind of swaying and dancing. It's it's amazing that the body movement comment like you. She really does look like what one might think of. Somebody who is possessed would look so in. All of these stories is the person who's telling they come off as the most honorable they can be in the other people come off much less so so. Then the the woodcutter says all of these are lies and he has been saying been calling all of these lives the whole way through so now. He says in fact that he didn't just find the body he witnessed. What happened and this is not something? He testified to court because he says he didn't don't WanNa get involved but he actually witnessed what happened. And what happened was the bandit the bandit Tagil Maru raped the the woman and then todd morrow is begging her to marry him. The bandits begging end she instead frees her husband but she frees her husband and says you guys have to fight it out. The husband says to her like. Why don't you kill yourself in in this? Because she's because she's is a spoiled. What like she's been Michigan? Yeah I don't think she's in this storage story. She's requesting that they fight and think. Oh yeah she said she does. She says that they're not real man because real men would fight over women's love but that's after she's been treated with contempt by the husband. I thought You were. This is the Russian mafia trust. Whatever the husband is really mean gene to her? Yes and at first. She just kind of collapses almost like she was in her telling of the story right like just this dainty flower our but then she starts laughing like almost like the bandit at that point. She's doing this kind of crazed laugh and and she says it's not me that's week it's you. That's that are weak. If you are a real man you would fight for me and then she kind of shames them into having a fight but neither of them seem to want to have a fight and this is this is actually. It's not a very funny movie but this is very very funny. They have a sword fight especially in you know you remember. In contrast to the sword fight that they had at the beginning which which is just I. It's like if you and I had a sword fight or it's like Pink Panther when inspector clue loose oh and Kato When he would go back to his apartment and it's just it's just a mess? They're just they're just scared there cowardly but then they're also also just flailing around. Yeah there I was looking at it and I was like this might have actually taken a lot more effort than than the actual certified and I bet they had fun. So it's just this like clumsy it's pitiful it's pitiful right. And then the only reason that the Samurai Bri- loses is because he sticks his sword into a tree stump. And you can't get it out. And then he kind of begs for his life and then reluctantly the banding kills him mm-hmm and the woman runs off. It's so funny. And it's interesting that from the woodcutters perspective every like in in all the other stories. One of them came off looking very honorable. Everybody comes off looking in the woodcutters story like a total gym. Tom And just kind of an and a bad person so before we get to the baby's controversial baby. Watch this with my daughter Elisa in she's sort of took it to be the real story. Because why would the woodcutter lie. Yeah and I totally disagree with that. In fact I think I love briefly loved her a little less. I even saying finalizes defense. I think that's the way that it's designed. The Lizard Brain is supposed to believe that. That's the true story we live there to Beatrice. She should have waited ninety seconds and realize that this was just fucking with us a little bit more yeah. I think that that's that there is reason to believe that this might be the true story right. Because presumably the woodcutter doesn't have a dog in this fight right. That's exactly why would he lie but he did have a dog the fight. Well we we. We might not realize it at that point but the win the commoner calls him out for having been abandoned it he we realized that he it may himself have had a dog in the fight rise. He's gone the dagger he's like. Where's sadder where's the dagger in this story? There's no dagger. And and the woodcutter doesn't deny that he stole the dagger so now it could still be in. This was elisas contention that okay. He stole the Dagger Air but everything else is true but you could just believe that he's making all of this up. It's you know to sort of cover up the fact act that in all of these stories nobody can account for the missing dagger except though in the La's defense offense. His story doesn't account for the missing dagger I is. It does the is there a dagger. Ever in the woodcutter story. I think the dagger never makes an appearance so there was nothing to find but then why would separately three different people talk about it dagger that didn't exist. But that's why the woodcutter presumably would be making up a story that has no dagger there's nothing to steal and hoping that they don't kind of catch the fact that so I think and I think a lot of the power of the movie Japan's on this isn't a whodunit Senate with a nice tidy answer at the end I think we have to take his story with like a big grain of salt as well. And we're in this episode Democrat Exposition of really just having no idea which one of them is telling the truth or if if anybody is telling the truth if they're all partially drouin impartially falls if if anybody is as they present themselves and we are literally in that position at in as we we as judges so so. Here's what I think I think. Stage one is thinking that there are four stories the fourth what ends up being the truth stage stage. Two might be that you're trying to figure out who's lying and for what reason but stage three with no valujet. It could just be. None of them are lying like it could very well be that. This is either an instance of flawed memory or self deception. That is that is so strong that they don't realize that their account is not a true account. They're not intentionally deceiving like in through the fact through the feelings aquit. Okay I I think that's fascinating however I have a hard time buying it because of the fact that in the first three stories that different person kills the Samurai. And this is. It's not like it's taking price like fifteen years ago ten years ago like through the factor actor the feeling about like this is this just happened. This happened like th the day before. Yeah so are you really not going going to remember whether you killed the Samurai or the Samurai killed himself or the woman fainted. Ain't and killed the Samurai whether the the you ran off or she ran off so on that theory that they're all telling what they believe. Is the truths truths in Sierra Leone. What possibly could have happened? That would make that psychologically plausible Zabol right one potential mechanism and this happens all the time and I witness accounts is that it's not that the everybody saw the events and so clearly as they happened and then forgot them. But it's rather the failure was in the attention attentional and encoding steps that it's it's that they Perhaps perhaps the woodcutter didn't have a right angle couldn't hear the words especially you know her fainting and and perhaps killing her husband. You know I see that from afar who knows what happened But but I think that there are ways in. which if you didn't didn't have a good grasp of what happened as it was happening or a good grasp of what was happening because of whatever I don't think this can explain everything but the banded ended wouldn't remember killing honorably the Samurai? Yesterday you know. But he he. There's very possibly some blend of these things. So the Samurai remembers this as a really really good fight right in his in his mind. They were like going at it right and bill or something but but in fact right. It's like it's like you might think that you're out there on the dance floor cutting up. Cut It up and then somebody sees you like. Oh my God not even at this stage financing where. I think that I am the Dunning Kruger Dancer so so I think I don't think that accounts for at all but I think that can account for a lot of the the potential that it's not a memory lapse. It's A. It's a lapse of attention. Encoding that that these things happen to happen fast and you might not actually get everything if you infuse. Is that then with wanting to see yourself as honorable and heroic then you can start telling a story that sounds like actually way different from somebody else. A good example is if from the bandit and from the wife's perspective the actual sex act like you could see the bandit thinking actually actually she kinda got into it pretty quickly and the wife thinking I was just taken a surely against my will the whole time and you could think that both of them believe that whatever is actually the case right But but the the there's other elements that just don't seem like fat and absorb fight is another good example like you said like you could. I'd see that in memory. It was a great sword. Fight in facto clue so and Kato but or somewhere in between tween but the yeah. I guess it's just the big thing is who who killed the Samurai. I think I think that's right so I think it could be the the I think. So the upshot is that I think that these are all potentially wrong. I agree with you there. How they're wrong wrong? I think it could be some blend of self interests and distorting of a memory or failure to capture the right things and some clearer earlier like like saving your own skin. Like I'm not going to admit to I'm going to like I didn't lie that much like it's all this other stuff was is true It's saving your own skin because the bandit kind of says I'm GonNa die no matter what so. I'll just tell you I'll tell tell you this version and then the dead man is already dead. So it's like it's not it's saving your own self image kind of it's like saving who who you are. and which is funny in juxtaposition with the commoner who has such a cynical view that he already thinks that everybody is is just goodness as make believe we just WanNa forget the bad stuff it's easier were constantly rationalizing. We're constantly Making ourselves look better than we really are. That's just what human beings do. That's what's that is. What is shaking the priests to his core? Is this idea. Yeah that human beings are just rationalizing self interested creatures to their core in a way that affects how they perceive reality. Eddie and how they describe reality and and so that's why it's worse than famine earthquakes and bandits coming through. It's that like this is something that is a part of human nature's just like an indelible part of human nature. Yeah I I don't know if fits the Schwartz. Shaking him is that that it affects how they perceive reality rather he could just believe that people are so willing to blatantly lie at this shakes his faith in human goodness that they're all liars but I think it's possible that it also shapes as you said like like how they actually perceive reality. I mean there's so many interesting philosophical ways to understand this. You could understand it as and I don't necessarily see a great argument for this but that there is no real truth as to what happened. But there's so many layers of testimony like like the fact that the testimony itself is a flashback and then then the vice backs in the testimony are flashbacks of flashbacks. Thought about yeah. So it's like you know like Plato kind of cave kind of thing. We are many layers removed from reality and so you could just think well maybe there you know there is. This is all kind of an illusion that we impose on the world are kind of south sounds conception i. I don't think that that's what Chris overhead might i. I think that and in fact. I think that this is more powerful if you you believe that there was a set of true events. That's unknowable. Right because if there is no real it's not even clear what that means to begin with but but It wouldn't matter that much. If there was actually no like no true set of events then the none of them would be lying. You know yeah I don't know it wouldn't matter but it is sort of hard to understand what that means exactly. I think it is it. Is this view who kind of it's like. Everybody has the sole up cystic view of the world. So there may be is this I maybe it's like a content like your boy Where there's a kind of a numerous but the but the way it's being understood is is different for everybody but I agree? I think more interesting way of understanding it is that there is a truth but it's unknowable. 'cause it is is unknowable. We do not get. I don't think we leave this movie with a good sense of what happened. Even at the most basic level of who killed the Zameret. Now I don't think so either and I think that that it would be a far worst movie if we were to believe that. The the woodcutter had the true Bruce Story. That's something happened in that. There is some truth to the events of what happened. Like is is just a good underlying assumption About how the world works. It's just that as you say. When you put human beings in the mix some mix of the are are it's like imperfect faculties of memory and perception along with our egocentric bias in our desires to see ourselves as good means? Is that there. It is very much. The case that we can't know that the actual event I think the brilliance of this movie is that sin like movies movies like a sh- showing us what happened is supposed to be God's view like there's this is the gods I view you of what happened so wait. You're showing me a bunch of stuff that didn't happen like I don't get it even dream when we see a dream in a movie. We're assuming zooming that the person is having that dream. Yeah Yeah and so here were like the. I think the thirst to have the true answer. Where is the false resolution of the woodcutter initially also by the way what's Great? I just thought of this God's eye view of of what happened you. Imagine it from above so often. We're seeing the forest from below the opposite of God's this this is very much the human. I've you yeah and it's and it's a lot of handheld camera. Yeah again making. It seem like we are right out there with them trying to harse out what's going on. Yeah and and we're sitting there listening to their testimony and we have to this. The truth will be filtered through our memory of this movie and a memory of the recounting events. And I think yes. Just thinking that the woodcutter. That's the true. The story that betrays a kind of bias on our part of wanting a tidy resolution by. There's this great in in the wonderful curdle Bach Book The the author describes when of a box pieces where he is a fucking with the audience audience by usually. When you you pop you you start with a theme like a musical Lega Key and then you can go around but when you come back back to the key that you started on it provides you resolution you get the psychological feeling we're back to where we began and there's a piece apparently where Pops you down on so many levels but he brings you only to the penultimate level and you have a false sense of resolution not knowing now realizing that the peace never actually gets you to the to the full. We'll resolution and I think that's what the woodcutter stories doing to us. We're getting I think if you WANNA believe that there is a true story and that somebody's surely would have seen it. It's the the dispassionate woodcutter. So fine you know take take your resolution but if you really think about it and I think we'll talk about the baby. Think that that we have reason to believe leave. The woodcutter wasn't the dispassionate impartial observer that he might have been yeah. So let's talk about because you read a lot about this and I I've also I've read a a few articles about it. I've the baby is almost almost casually mentioned as almost an embarrassment of the movie to some degree. Like ah this baby X. McKenna like I don't know then I haven't read. That is the idea that this is just a cheap way to make us believe in the goodness Nisa humans. Yeah like almost like a Hollywood kind of set said. Obviously there's no Hollywood here but that like Oh this is too bleak leak. You need to put something that affirms Cut You know like the possibility of goodness. At least that would be empowered. Yeah I didn't read it that way but that would be shitty. I mean but it is very this is another thing that like. This actually made Elisa not think this movie was a masterpiece. She really was disturbed by like that. Just all of a sudden tacked on it seems like a baby like. Why is there a baby in this abandoned gate? That just happens to start crying now and last bitten job. Oh by the way exactly I mean I could see reading it that way and I not even sure that's wrong although although I want I want really to come up with a more interesting way of understanding it but let's just say what happens. It's not that complicated so all of a sudden. Then after the woodcutter tells a story they hear a baby cry in the back of this broken this gate which is huge judge this huge abandoned gate in the middle of the forest. They've been on like a stage almost and then the back of the stage is there's a a an infant and that has been abandoned and immediately the commoner goes to it and just steals the baby's Kimono which was serving as some. I'm sort of blanket for the baby. And just he steals. It and woodcutter is like what the fuck like. What's wrong with you? How could you do that? And it had had an ambulance that was supposed to protect it. And the woodcutter just goes full cynic right now so even his cynicism is self interested he says what about these people everybody selfish fish. We're all selfish I'm just doing what everybody does. And this is where he says to him like. I didn't hear anything about a dagger in your story. Great that sounds like maybe you stole the dagger. And the woodcutter doesn't say anything and so he says well I guess I'm right. And then he walks off off he runs off into the brain is kind of stopped and he runs off with the Komo and the amulet and the the priest is now holding the baby just so devastated now because this is the this is the bleakest way you could end it right now. It's like oh so. Even the woodcutter was self interested at least about the dagger. And then the woodcutter says. I'll take the baby. Don't worry like I have seven kids or eight kids or six kids or whatever and one other one is not gonNa make a difference where poor Gore but I'll take care of the baby. And the priest gives the baby to him and says that he's restoring his faith in humanity eight to some degree anyway right so And at Sunshine again yeah and then then the clouds the rain stops read somewhere. Never never does does it only drizzle in curse film inside I so I read this very much as The woodcutter did steal the dagger with the Berlin. I was curious as to how easy that would be defense offense the Dagger Lincoln give it to Kevin Garnett. Maybe he'll think that it'll help them win championships. So that that the bandit I mean the sorry. The commoner cynicism is is justified he points out something. Hey what's what's with the dagger I think that the woodcutter cutter was feeling guilty about it as as we talked about already and the priest for a moment is like shit. You're fucking thief to like God Damn It. And and he's kind of reluctant to give up the baby and it's not until he says that he has six kids of his own that this this will be fine that he realizes that maybe what's going on was that he took the dagger because he figured who needs this dagger the guy's already dead and what he's trying to do is make ends meet to support his family. And I think that the priest East in light of that information realizes that hey is very easy to judge the actions of somebody else as Evil Evil and get down get be dismayed by but what really matters here is this guy's willing take on this other kid like yeah. Maybe he had the dagger shaped his story story. And maybe you know maybe it sucks because we don't know what really happened but but God damn it like if there's ever a reason to take a dagger like go ahead take the baby you know. So sounds like a redemption for the woodcutter. But doesn't that seem a little pat doesn't that seem a little like no because I think that what still think that what's still powerful about the movies that now the priest is like well I. I don't think I'll ever know what really happened right. Those four stories now. I I used to believe that. The woodcutter story was the true resolution. And that would be pat right but now now I have to question. The events of the woodcutter told me but that doesn't mean that he's bad right right right so like we can be in this inevitable EPA stomach situation. We'll never never know what actually happened. But but does that mean we should despair for humanity. Not necessarily. Yeah so I think that's right and I think I think it's also true on a psychological level like yes we're self interested rationalize irs but we also have some goodness in us and so so if the movie you know if it's so bleak then it's in some ways not doing justice to human nature because because we do have good sides that come out. It's run there is so I like that I. I'll throw this low into the mix. I think the priest like what's he gonNa do at the baby right so glad you asked right now. He wasn't Catholic right now. He wasn't like he's looking for a reason to give up this baby from his own perspective and we haven't really talked talked about the priests perspective and his self interest but right now his self interest is. I got to figure out what to do with this baby. If I can't trust anybody ed I'm going to have to keep the baby but wait this guy all right if I if I will myself to believe in his goodness than I can give up the baby and kind of feel like I'm not doing something horribly wrong interesting interesting You know I never. I never thought of that. I think I wasn't paying that much attention. To the priests reaction as much as paying attention to the to the commoner. In the woodcutter so so I don't know I mean I think like I. It came up with this idea trying almost like sand off. The idea that the woodcutter was telling the truth and that may be still the dagger but otherwise who is telling the truth and that was a good guy and Ling. But I I don't know there's something it it fits. I'm not saying this is right. I actually think if I had to guess Curacao is intention. It's moral nines of what you said but there is something interesting about the idea that even the priest like all of us. This has his own dog in the fight as too quick too quick to accept the goodness. Yeah exactly and that's why he's too quick to accept zapped goodness is because it's in his interest to be too quick to accept the goodness and who knows if it's really came out as might be all from the priest perspective and then God give me a sign. Yes give up the baby and just hearing that the sun came out from us. But we don't know should they trust us. What have yeah but I do think that the the claim that that this movie is about whether or not if there is any truth is is to postmodern of attack? I think this is more about the epidemic. Not The metaphysical at that. This is that it's unknowable. Not that it's not that there is no truth. Just that like all all events are going to be colored by by our weaknesses and are are are false false perceptions are you will. Nature is in some cases and that I think he's a much more pets a very powerful I even the as people have even the rush. Amman biters people who've taken taken this idea and tried to develop they tend to not be as subtle and and powerful Arvo this. Yeah I would say in some ways. It almost doesn't matter which of those two is right. It's it's almost like are we. Ones thousands. Are we living in a simulation or not like it. It's the same. We are faced from our perspectives with the same problem. which is we don't know now what happens in practice? I think you're right. It's just stupider if he's more pointless if there is no real answer and Yeah that's in some ways it's less. It's more depressing. If there is a real answer that will forever be out of our reach. I think this is a in some ways relates to the discussion. We were having last episode about science and what science can show US goes science science and scientists use tools and they are people and they make observations. And you know so there. There is going to be this inherent subjectivity. Even and what we take to be the most objective form of breath discovery. So this is definitely you know the Rosh amount affect has been applied to ethnography but I think it can also be applied to in some of the more experimental avenue. Maybe that's why I'm much more. Comfortable with the EPA stem ick challenge rather than the metaphysical. Because I I think that there is water either is a chore. It isn't And the fact that there are human even flaws and interests in the attempts to answer. That question is only only makes the solution a bit harder to find doesn't mean that there is no solution but but but it could be impossible to find. I think is the message of the movie. So that shouldn't make you feel too hopeful right yeah yeah but but but it's always impossible to find right. It's if there were no real reality under there It would always be impossible. I think that this is is more interesting because it's pointing out the kind of the the the barriers to finding the truth. Assuming the truth exists is a I. I think I don't know I think it's a deeper more interesting resting point than no truth exists but I I guess so. Let's assume truth exists. There's still the question of is it inaccessible. Hello or is it just really hard to access and I think this movie could certainly be argued that it is. He's saying that it's inaccessible. I mean I think that it saying that it is sometimes inaccessable and I think that's the powerful part that this is the things that we think that might give the objective answer but if if you send it it's always always inaccessible. Then then that's almost getting to the. Yeah I don't know no I. I don't think I I saw without a doubt that far when it comes to something like this I guess where we're in but you know in that and that might be why the you know so if the science that you are that your viewing as possibly like interpreting it this way if if you're looking at social social sciences then that makes sense right physics I think that makes less sense. Because they're they're it's hard but not a noble and in some cases at least yeah And also from you know we haven't talked about this but from a legal perspective is a movie about a court trial and in different testimony. which is what you know the rare cases that actually go to trial are they often hang or fall on testimony in this movie throws a lot of that into serious serious question no matter how you interpret it but certainly if this is why algorithms are going to save it because the algorithms will just take the average of the all the stories and give us the spit out the truth algorithm if there's one thing I have adamantly defended on this podcast frankly beginning algorithms Are the Salvation Hannity tennis balls like when when you're watching a tennis tournament in in some of the tournaments they have this cameras that show you whether the ball landed. Yeah yeah hit the line or not and turns out that those aren't actually visual. The those are recorded instance. Those are actually calculated. Statistically to give you what the most likely trajectory of the ball was. Because we can't. That's that's so funny because it's like the way it's presented entity even though it's like animated it's like it just animation like you're watching a pixar movie of ball that would land in a court but I take it as Gospel you know like. Oh that's how far out or you know like Oh just touched that part. That tiny part of the line and you know they they should they should put error bars on the animated out of bed. That's that is a hill to die on uh-huh Um Ted media wrap things up like I just want to reiterate how I think ahead of. Its time I don't know if that's the right way to say it Because I think it goes toe to toe with with the best films of our era but but but God damn man. Yeah I you know I'm I'm I have a major recency bias when it comes to movies but have but it's very rare that I watch a movie and just WanNa Watch it again right away and that's yeah that's what happened here and it's also like ninety minutes is yeah I will say that there are people like me and suffer from short attention spans like it's slower paced but not in a bad way like I I think and I agree with you like I actually wanted to watch the second time and the second time was immediately and obviously even more enjoyable to me. Yeah yeah second focus on the performances. Now it's it's brilliant. I still not sure what I think about the baby and whether that was a good way to end it or whether it could've ended better without you could have cast I think casting doubt on the woodcutter story is important to do. Yeah but you didn't need anybody to do. You don't need the baby. The baby the baby is is the ray of hope the litter like the literal ray of sunshine that breaks the brakes through. And and yeah maybe that makes it the softer. But I'm okay with it right. Yeah Yeah I'm okay with it too I I am and I think like like the idea that there is goodness in humanity should get some play given how just this is like a parable of humanity in some ways. You know like it really is. It's so spare. It's so spare. In the way that parables are that it is is it almost does oh us a little bit of a glimpse into the fact that humans are not always assholes astles right and and it's still pretty fucking bleak off. Apparently like they all live together while they were filming in this In like cabins and they became very close as they were like it. It does seem like it would be a fun movie to film and and also so like a huge percentage of the budget just went to the building of the gate like that was interesting. Yeah which makes sense. 'cause almost almost no other sets the rest is just a big Sam. Sandra's right all right. Well now you can all go back to your marvel movies but this is an example of fucking cinema. Thank you you You're really doing wonders for your for your reputation being hoity toity. That's the goal goal. Sometimes TACO. Bell food is good. Tammy Miller I wouldn't know a vegetarian in my conception of myself I'm a bit. I can vegetarian. You'd know the talk about has plenty of vegetarian food. Yes well on that note Taco Bell and if they're interested in sponsoring us this is like the opposite of rush. Amman where they're all hope of our goodness is because we just shilling for Taco bell trying to get them after one hundred eighty episodes. It's it's been gone. Join US next time on the plan. The whole reason you they can have a very good man just to say bad quizzes.

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Washington Wizards GM Tommy Sheppard

The Full 48

56:27 min | 6 months ago

Washington Wizards GM Tommy Sheppard

"Are you ready to show off your Phantom at fat head? We encourage fans to share their passion by creating spaces that celebrate what they love from sports. To entertainment to customize decor fat head offers. Something for every fan choose from High Quality Vinyl Wall Graphics Foam Core and cardboard cutouts canvas art lighted wall signs and more plus right. Now we're offering our fans thirty percent off officially licensed products when you use discount code fat head pod at FAT head Dot Com. That's FAT head. Dot Com Discount Code. Fat head pod. No Matter Your. Phantom fat head has got you covered. It's what we do because hey we're fans to what up forty eight hour back senior. Nba Writer for bleacher report. Dave forty three of the NBA locked down. Forty free mind blowing. Guess is already laughing at me before we get to my guests. I just want to remind you all because I've been remissed. If you're not subscribe to this podcast Please do so apple. Podcasts spotify stitcher bunch of other platforms with goofy names. And if you're on apple podcast please give us a rating and review. Helps out the podcast. Appreciate you all sticking with us through the lockdown. I know there's not a lot of NBA on obviously but there's still plenty of Mba to talk about and very pleased to be joined today by the general manager of the Washington Wizards live from somewhere out in the outskirts. Of Our nation's capital. Tommy Sheppard Tommy. How are you in now? It is great great to be on this show. Thank you for having me. I'm sorry for laughing at days. All run together just say. Hey It's been a while I don't even know anymore. It's daytime nighttime. Days of the week months. It's just it's it's just all a blur out. How are you holding up because well first of all on the personal so the professional side but I know you have seven kids four. Who are still living at home ages. Eight through eighteen. I've got one wife one daughter one cat. And that's all I've got to deal with here at. We still are stumbling into each other at times. Over over this lockdown periods of how are you guys holding up? We're doing fantastic. All Things considered at the time we get together right now. We really haven't in April March and April In twenty six years of marriage. I'm very seldom. So this is brand new. You know this is a totally different. Feel for our family that I'm around all the time I haven't missed dinner in forty three days haven't been late so that part has been wonderful spending time with them but certainly we are all very very sympathetic to what's going on around the world in obviously our thoughts. Everybody the struggling suffering touched by this grown virus that you know our our most sincere sympathies. Were going out to everybody for us. Where or slaying low loss enhance social distancing sometimes on the hour every hour within our own house. But we're doing great thank you. I hope your family's well. No WE'RE DOING. We're doing really well. I mean it's all things considered we're fine and it says you say we're healthy where fine you know the inconvenience if you can even term it that of having to be inside a lot or sticking close to home a you know what this is what it takes for us all to get through this and it's fine. You accepted little. Stir crazy at times here. I William it. It's a great great very good description but but yeah we're holding so wait forty three straight days so forty-three straight dinners. You've actually been around for an and as you point out for an MBA or MBA reporters. Like me that's unusual. So have you. Have you picked up any new either duties talents chores along the way? Are you cooking? More like what's what's changed in the shepherd household while you've been been there for for this stretch but we we've always home schooled our children so the four that are here are still being home. Schooled and I came home Shortly after was March twelfth came back from the PAC twelve tournament in Vegas in and out mmediately was deputized to be a substitute teacher and quickly went from helping with math and social studies to t and now I make lunch. Those some the duties I picked up and obviously around the house. Whatever I can do to help out it's done It's been fun to spend a lot more. Hopefully these times will start to matter to everybody. We're going through this together. Certainly but these are times we didn't really ever have before and so this matters in the big picture if we can all come out of this and we have veterans quality time with our families. I think we'll all be better certainly better productive working and we'll have more balancing our life. No no doubt Amen. What's your go to You're making lunch now. What's your go to me? What are you good at? I'll tell you what waffle iron we make grilled cheese sandwiches they clutch always and Pretty big with the noodles. We throw some throws pasta with tomato sauce and of course today is Taco Thursday in our Thursday. I didn't WanNa Steal Lebron's deal then. So we've we've talked with. Thursday's in our house so that's a big night it's not quite as alliterative as Taco Tuesday. But but I'll still find if you take the road less traveled. There's less draft not allowed to be tackled. Thursdays. I'm with you. I like it and in this all this home. Schooling no like salary cap one zero one kind of stuff or navigating luxury tax base year. Compensation rules you know. We've gotTA keep Talked enough stuff going on around the house and we all. It's what's crazy is I've actually on the phone more now than I am when I'm normally at were you know usually at work your practice. You're meeting with your coaches you meeting with Your Front Office Staff Strategic. Planning anybody in our building that needs to time together. We sit down. We we have face to face is now. We're organizing conference calls and video calls. All Day is still like an air traffic controller. Every time I look at about ten twelve basis there this nice little one on one time with appreciate that. Yeah we are doing this via zoom. I've done skype. I've done phone I've done by the time. This is all over. I'm going to have used like the Telegraph or something. I agree so I was talking to another GM the other day who just saying that you know. Listen we've got all this great technology we can do 'cause like like you and I are doing right now. We can see each other and all this. But that's so much a part of your job in your world is just being all in the same building whether it's you know whether you're out on the road scouting or whether you're just you know at wizards headquarters and you've got everybody. Just it's all those casual conversations right. It's not just the meetings that are planned where your face to face. But the ability to an idea strikes or a call comes in some new intelligence and whatever you can just gather each other real quick and have those conversations. So how inhibiting or much more challenging. Is it just not having the ability to just run into each other or throw everybody into a room on the spur of the moment? I think we we always try our best foot forward. This is what it is. It's make the most of it. One thing we pride ourselves on. Is Billy being able to read the room when when you come into our facility you know body language is so important you can kind of tell what kind of a day of players have in our coach? Savon kind of work through the entire workday with people to make sure that they when they when they arrived there in the best state of mind to be productive to have a great day and then when they leave it there in the best place to go home and be with their families. And when you don't have that day to day contact you have to adjust and we've done a great job as a staff are are. I can't say enough about her perform from his staff or coaching staff of integrating workouts. That include the families. You know we have a group YOGA ON WEDNESDAYS. Everybody welcome to bring a guest. Al May Have People? They want their team performance. People that are available. Twenty four seven to top people through if they're having some hard times difficulties players or coaches. It's everybody on staff in families and certainly just the time that we're spend right now is the scouting staff ready for the draft or the free agency behind that has been really valuable making the most of it that the eye contact you know you. We try to make sure everybody doesn't turn their camera off. It does lead to some interesting. Some some great quarantine beards emerged out of this very very I marks for yours. Thank you thank you. We get to see we get to see a family. Interior design and decorations. That's all fascinating too so lots of great stuff coming out of this. I think I'm very hopeful. Maybe we're the end of the beginning and that makes sense and then we'll see what the next phase is. I'm seeing optimism around the world at the hopefully. The death rate is certainly dropping and that there's more testing available. But you know that's not within our control so we just try to make the most of the stuff. Yeah and teams are being really creative about this and it's been great to see you know. Everyone's been very proactive about. Whether it's you know doing these online meetings making sure guys get together Virtually to do workouts and socially and otherwise getting equipment to the mall that but the one thing that I've been curious about this whole time I've been asking people periodically fans sometimes assume all these guys they can. They can work out at home but some guys aren't in suburban family homes apartment buildings and they may not have anything and then they assume. Well everybody's got every still shooting. Well no actually I guess don't have baskets available to them either and I've talked to a lot of guys who don't have that of your roster play. I think you're full fifteen right like do you know how many of you guys actually have a basket available to shoot up during this? We actually have seventeen in nine. People have always all access to everybody else getting creative. You know we were doing okay with the parks were open and a Lotta guys would just go to the park and shoot kind of brought her back to the roots a little bit but those went away so now he's very ball handling drills or must we have our coaches to that twice a week with the players and a guys The one thing. I'm really hoping we can optimize out of this is just the ability to recover. You know I think a lot of players are are training year round now. Their bodies were beat up but she's this time wise. Lita to make sure that whatever Zalin let's make sure your healing up and making the best out of the basketball situation. It is what it is. I think it's a level playing field. Most most every team has the same situations and most players choose where they live on proximity to the practice facility because they could come back silly twenty four seven get shots up and get a workout in and you don't really plan for something like this. Where having a gym in Your House but certainly Bradley Feel John. Wall actually do have basketball courts inside their house and Gary Payton is blessed to his father has a fantastic facility out in in Las Vegas. A GERRY'S AD in Troy Brown as well a few of the other players would have made do with with baskets in the driveway or whatnot. So we're trying to deliver what we can deliver in. Just keep everybody saying the same mantra. It's so much better to stay ready than it is to get so. Having those guys really put in the time cardiovascular wise. That's one less thing to worry about. When we come back now. Getting getting in basketball shape is gonNA take you know. It'll take a chunk of time for sure but getting irregular shape anti-indian Best Shave. You'll never happen. I it just for work. So yeah say ready. Yeah no it's it's tough. I mean you know and I think most guys do their best to stay ready no matter what. The circumstances are off season. Lockout or a lockdown like any situation. But there's only so much you can do in these circumstances because there's so much less available to guy so I feel like this is. This is a bigger challenge. It's also much much longer span. Potentially away from the game and I've talked to trainers who have said they think it could take three or four weeks really. Want to not get guys hurt. You WanNa make sure that you know minimize the risk. It's GonNa they say go tomorrow. It's still at least a month out before you really WanNa have guys competing at that level right. So that's that's tough I'll certainly in. That's that's again. That's why we these workouts when they first started. I think guys were a little reluctant to join in. Thank you can do it on your own and still go to high level. It's evolved now to where I think as really genuinely look forward to the group workouts and we leave the camera on before the workout started and leave it afterwards and you can hear the banter and it's almost like back in the locker room being back food food room in the facility Hearing guys busted on each other I'll tell you one thing. The the the last dance has been a fantastic topic of conversation about. That's kind of bonded together to and then Nba TV some of the Classic Games. Seen some the gold medal games on on the Fox channel was great. Players are watching everything and they'll send comments you know. They're alert Watson stuff so again. It's just trying to make the best of a tough situation. It certainly wasn't meant to make the NBA shutdown. It's the whole world is going through it so I think we're just trying to make sure that would make it the best so I was talking to again another gym the other day about this. We're getting to this point now. Where states are starting to move toward trying to reopen and somewhere along the way there. Everybody's GonNa be on a different timeline. But gyms local gyms the twenty four hour fitness. Or whatever you know L. A. Health Club like gyms are going to reopen. And there's going to be a temptation for guys to start going to work out. How are you guys going to navigate that? Have you to discuss this at all about like if you can't open yet or if the League has not actually said for all twenty nine markets that you twenty eight markets that you can go ahead and reopen your facilities which are shut down by league order right now but cities and states start to open things up. Guys would probably be and this. Is The discussion about the gym. Guys would probably be safer in your facility. The Wizards facility the monumental facility or in the grizzlies facility. The Lakers study. Whatever then they would be some public gym where you know. You have no idea what the standards are going to be. Have you discussed or considered how to navigate that once that moment comes because it feels like that maybe on the horizon? Here's we see states starting to move to reopen. Yeah I think it's still far away when they do do those things our. I think there's so much more that has to go into that in terms of the testing in equality controls for us we take our leave straight from the NBA from the Players Association. What they feel is going to be the safest path for our players. They're going to give the best advice to our players of what to do. And certainly I. I would expect they would direct people to the facility when it's open far better than than being outside and not being able to control the environment. Who's in there? Who's not on but until that day comes. I promise we just sit here and do the very best for more we're at. I think the NBA has done a great job throughout this is communicating with us with our players of what the best process to do isn't sustained safe Certainly people come down there. There's positives every day and we're watching that and hopefully it stays in a situation this manageable and doesn't escalate and we don't lose people you know that that's that's everybody in the outside world is going through the same exact thing that there's whatever happens when the facilities open. I think it's far better situation than than as he said state-by-state trying to get players to go jump into to open. Run over at Equinox. Or something I think. They have better certainly better information now and. I think that'd be reluctant to try to do that. Yeah no it's it's going to be. I think that'll be among the short term challenges for the League is trying to figure out what the most the best approach. They're the most proactive approach. But cities and states are going to be on different timelines to and there's your people can even argue competitive disadvantages. Now right where like. Oh well. This city opened up and these guys can go work out but this one did not and is that going to be a problem for teams Now saying away. Our guys don't have access and these guys do. It's going to be a little complicated. Obviously again much bigger concerns for the work in our society right now but these are things that you know. Everybody has to kind of consider navigate What I've found is the best energy spent just focusing on your team and not worrying about what's going on everywhere else. I find it hard to believe that. we won't be getting some great direction from the NBA in the union on this stuff that whenever that time is we'll be ready for for sure one other quick thing just on the on the League calendar that I was curious about. I mean we are about a month out from when the we normally have pre-draft camp and the draft lottery. The League hasn't made any announcement yet about officially postponing. It seems inevitable. That certainly pre-draft camp but the lottery which could do virtually then but it would be based on incomplete standings and there's still a question of knows maybe they're gonNA make up some of these games probably not all of them any sense that you've had an look as it stands right now if the standings are frozen in time and we don't continue you guys are a lottery team. Right now does their case to be made that they should just hold a lottery based on where things are right now and you might happen in a few weeks of any direction from the League on that no I. I think everybody is the great thing about Adam. Silver his staff. They're open for all ideas. Everything's discussed right. But I I think I really have high empathy for the teams that are challenging to win a championship and to say we're going to cancel the season without trying to see whatever we can possibly do to finish the season to get to the play offs. I think would just be a travesty. You know if we can find a way we have smart enough people in. There's enough time is not something that we have a ton of. But there's there's the ability to adjust schedules or whatnot. I'm sure the NBA looking at all of that wouldn't when the draft happens. We'll be ready when the lottery. App is such just tells you what what spot you're gonNA draft. I don't think that that's going to happen unless we finished the season right now and when those days go beyond a skill but I know the MVP looking at everything yeah the certainly sounds like you're of the mindset that you would much rather see something closer to a complete season before we start doing things like setting lottery odds based on the standings draft order based on the standings. Yeah I think everybody that's involved in the NBA. Wants to see a champion. They WANNA see playoffs. They want off if there's opportunities for for players to to finish their seasons out that that should happen. You don't want to have this this complete disruption if it can be avoided. Yeah at the end of the day it's going to be whatever the final decisions what save for the world to me. We have exhausted all avenues yet. Life today is kind of a lot it forces us to always beyond but every now and then it's important to stop crack open a mountain called coors light and chill so when you choose the turnoff choose the one beer that's made to chill Golden Colorado Coors Light Mountain cold refreshment mate. Chill coors light is brewed with a three step cold process. Cold lager cold filtered and cold package. So it's actually made to chill. The mounds encores. Like cold activated bottles and cans turn Blue Shield to protection born in the rocky mountains of Colorado in one thousand nine hundred seventy eight cores. Lied is refreshing crisp and only one hundred calories. That's why coors light is the one I choose when I need a moment of chill celebrate responsibly. Prepare yourselves but time for a brand new. Rick and Morty Adventures is almost here. Wait what this is. What you've been waiting for new rick. And morty on adult swim you mentioned John Wall earlier and one of the challenges of course during time like disparate teams that players who were injured or recovering from major surgeries as John was the Achilles all of a sudden. Don't have that face to face access and access to training staff medical staff and cities all the other things that go with that whereas John Wallet in his. What has he been able to do. how are you feeling about? Just you know where. He is in that in that timeline. Well prior prior to March twelfth. We really we're extremely excited about the progress. Johnston able to make on floor. And what happened as a result of that lockout or you know when we lock down facility is John. Lost the ability to scrimmage as he had been doing with Gogo and he'd actually been practicing with the wizard so he's getting his legs back under when that goes away. You know he's still doing. Everything's getting his lift. Santa's according to this house. He's getting. He's doing a lot of bike ride now. But that's not playing basketball. So he was a lot closer to where he needed to be on March Twelfth Aeneas today just because he doesn't have that ability to Scrim what I think is best for John. Certainly was what we said. All along is be ready for NEXT SEASON. And he's been out for a long time but he's come back to a level. Now I think is Wade is where he needs to be. He's very very dialed in on getting back on the floor making a huge impact you know he's one of the most competitive point guards we've had in the NBA for quite some time. One of the best players in the league when he's on percent healthy and five time all star that makes me feel great about free agency. This summer's is I know right away. We're getting five time all star back on so that that's one less thing to worry about. And it he is He's doing what we asked them to do. And and more and he's very very inspired and very dedicated to making the best possible situation from self for the wizards move forward. I think you kinda preemptively answered this but you know everybody. All of a sudden has these fun hypotheticals in their heads about well. Gee if they re start the season in July or August and all of a sudden new Kevin Durant be playing for the nets or Korea's back or whatever. I think you preemptively shut the door on this but we're not going to see a John Wall in game seventy three of a resume season in the summer or something that you just went whenever the twenty twenty twenty one season starts. That's when we'll probably see John Wall that's been are agreement all along. You know this certainly it does give the fans hope you know sometimes and I always have home. See John back out there but think about it if the season's extended and even if we were to start the next season two three months behind if somehow he had a setback then he wouldn't be ready for next season so so. I just like the confidence of going into next season with a fully healthy John Wall there and ready to go chomping at the bit to risk anything right now to risk anything be crazy. John as We have a huge investment in you and it's not just for this year. It's it's for several seasons after this so we want to see him. Have the very best career with the wizards possible and and that starts with this health and I would be better for it by being patient. Yeah I WANNA just make quick note of this too before we get to some other stuff that you guys have been the wizards like a lot of NBA teams. You guys have been really engaged during this crisis. I just want to highlight a couple of these things. Because I think the wizards have done a lot here monumental. Basketball's purchased six thousand meals so far. Think and counting for feeding feeding the front lines which is serving first responders and healthcare workers if folks want to know more about that or contribute actually fans can can donate monumental foundation dot org. I know John Wall has donated medical masks and launched a couple of nearby hospitals Bradley. Beal's donated two hundred fifty thousand dollars to the Saint. Louis Feed Bank and feeding America. So you guys have been really engaged is bid. Just been part of kind of the way you you know many ways in which you pull the team together at a time like this you can kind of make me channel guys into the cause here and you know focus on on what everybody can do proactively. Certainly everything starts with with the generosity of our ownership group and Ted Leonsis head of monumental. Sports is always had the double bottom line. We have very much about being great neighbors and caring about the community around us and it just trickles down to everybody and organization so the wizard side our players actually approached said. Hey what can we do? How can we help? And you try to solve things. I start locally in offbeat that are on the front lines in DC. The healthcare workers that was something or out more. Nate and ward eight is an area. That's at as has Has Really recognize a lot of the economic recovery of other parts of DC is still up in common in our facilities kind of the temple of Ordway to we want to reach out and having relationships with hospitals that are closest toward a is there on the front lines working with the Kobe patients and stuff so that was just a small thing. Everybody on our team is doing something. Either here in DC something in their own hometown to making the world a better place if it's feeding people if it's if it's extra money For for gift cards for people that are having trouble making ends meet every players out there trying to do stuff and Bradley and John Certainly been at the front of that but all of our players have reached out and make connections and made donations the thing that the feeding the front miss a real simple way that we could show our gratitude for people that are really putting themselves at risk every single day to help help helpfully get people back on their feet. Yeah no that's great As it has been very cool just seeing the the NBA has been. I'm sure I'm sure the other sports have to probably. I'm not paying close attention but I do think the NBA's been really good On this across the board being really engaged and also not just the all the contributions and everything else but Steph curry interviewing Dr Fao. She an all day thing. It's it's been it's been cool. It's been very fun to see all right. So if you'll indulge me on this I I was on a podcast with Fred Katz. Great Wizards beat writer for the athletic. A few months back and I I've laid out why I think and this is the awkward conversation to have reported to. Gm We're friends. So I know you'll take this the right way. I'm not advocating. The Bradley beal should leave the wizards. But I've I've kind of laid out a few times including on Fred's podcasts. Why think it feels to me almost inevitable in this in this era of player empowerment player movements superstar movement? That that we're on a path here so let me lay out the the because it's only fair if I if I'm going to put this case out there tell me what I'm wrong. Or what the counter argument is I look at bill and I say he's. He's turning twenty seven in June. Two Time All star eight years in coming off one of his best seasons certainly statistically but did not make the all star team probably in large part because of the wizards record. That's that's held him back a little bit and certainly a point of frustration. He's he's he's been upfront about that. been in the playoffs. Four Times has not been past the second round and his his co star. John Wall is turning thirty in September and coming off of one of the toughest injuries in the NBA to recover from. And so my feeling is I would totally understand it if I'm not. I'm not advocating this. But if I were his agent maybe if I were anybody in his camp I'd be saying well you know what you gotta you gotTa look at where you are. You're firmly in your prime. Your Co Star is coming back from this really tough injury. He's about to turn thirty wizards got some some short-term cap issues here still you know Tommy Sheppard I know zoom be doing all these great things now as as GM but can you afford to wait that long. Bradley beal to me just seeing the way. This league has gone the last five to ten years and you and I have been around about the same amount of time in this league. You we've seen were things have shifted and guys are taking it on themselves to say you know what I I. It's it's my career. I'm going to steer it and if I don't WanNa wait or if I think there's a better path to winning somewhere else I'm GonNa go. We've seen it many many times. We don't need to go through all the examples but the basic outline of it and then the last piece of that is this too. I know that modern medicine is great. And I'm sure John Wall as you've noticed working his tail off to get back to who he was but no one's one hundred percent after an Achilles so even if he's at eighty percent ninety percent whatever it is even at one hundred percent they were not getting out of the second round in prior years. So I look at all that and I think it would be reasonable to feel like this is where this is going to tell me where I'm wrong or what I missing or what. The counterargument is for bills. Long term. Future. With the wizards well. It's always something that I take into consideration what you're saying certainly but I I will tell you this in no offense at all but you don't know Bradley beal not putting on the scale that Bradley's his own man and you're right it does happen around the League but he made a decision this summer to extend with us in his whole thing is I want to be that I plays with one team mile entire friend of mine entire career. I WanNa be the guy that made the change and help us. Elevate this franchise and go win a championship. And he has strong shoulders to carry this franchise. We built this team from three years ago when we were in the playoffs. Last you know the only players left on our roster next season We had his John Wall and Bradley. Beal you know the NBA changes fast. We add team. That was About eight minutes from going to the conference finals against Boston broke down in the fourth quarter on the road of a great series and since then John Really hasn't been healthy. Radley got us to the play offs the following year basically on his own We lost Toronto in six games. And then ever since then we've add difficult injuries but we changed our entire roster this summer when I sat down with Bradley actually at the end of last season we did our exit interview. Ask them what is it? GonNa take for you to believe in us to believe there was a change. I was the interim general manager Russell. Tell me what it's GonNa take for you to be part of this franchise moving forward and first and foremost is hey. Let's let's have the best possible work ethic highest character. Guys guys just WanNa work their butts off and get better everyday. That sets the tone that Bradley beal wants and we did that. We we change our roster completely as I said. Have a lot of young guys. We have some key additions. Britan's Ish Smith you know and I think when you add some of the thesis that we did Through the drafts. Through some trays. We kinda netted out with a pretty exciting roster with eight guys. Twenty three and younger that that can grow and Bradley's these is in the prime of his career and I think you'll be all NBA team this year as a matter of fact but I think he really was excited about what this first season. What he saw under under our leadership. I believe that he has been unbelievable partner in all the building that we've done he's been consulted on everything. I ask his input constantly. He's been. He has a great relationship with our coaching staff. And and we talk about Ford Player. Development is and all of our young players. Bradley's player development went up this year. He took his game to another level. he was robbed of an All Star. Opportunity this year. For whatever reason the coaches didn't select him I think he's made a point to make sure that they understand. It might have made a mistake and I see him being on the NBA team. As I said those are things. I don't think matters Bradley as much so. Let's get to the playoffs win games. That's what he's about in again. I I know you've interviewed him over the years but really being around I've seen the transformation she walked into our doors. The day he turned nineteen years old. And I've spent pretty much his whole career with him and I think we have always been very transparent with each other and he made it clear to me. This is where I WANNA be. I WanNa win and let's put the pieces together. I'm patient. I'll do whatever we have to do. This year will get John Back. That's GonNa be a big piece but we're going to grow and guess what I'm getting better every day. And that's Bradley saying that. And I know he can help carry this franchise if we've been patient but we're not going to be very patient very long. We want to win. And I think all these young players have shown no the drafting of Bradley was very fond of that. Some of the additions mobile bogner and obviously troy ground continues to grow. And you start throwing names out there and I don't WanNa leave anybody out but we have plenty of good young players to go with Nice roster and I think the addition of diabetes opened Bradley's IRA as the two brads used to be in the best shooter every Single Day in the gym. He goes into the guy who can challenge on that and and that really helps spread the floor and improve Brad. These opportunities on Florida's have a better shoes with him and adding Thomas Brian over the last year. All these guys Bradley if he didn't mention them by name you mentioned them by trade. This is what we need and we went out and acquired those things and now you've got to be patient and grow. I'm nobody's more impatient than I am and I really determined. I think this year we were on a pretty good trajectory. Some bad injuries at key moments of the season where we lost ruined for twenty plus we lost Wagner. We we're in women the doors open. We'll be in the nice spot you know. We were still competing for a playoffs spot this year in spite of all the injuries have John. So I make the case that I'd take my cues from Bradley and we talk every day and he loves what we're doing these excited about teacher think he's up for the challenge and I know he's under contract so we're in a good place. And he's never given any other indication other than how much he loves his ear and what she's looking forward not even just. I always going to his you know his Jersey to the rafters one day but it only matters damn splitting of Jamshid band up there. It's up to us to put that together. We have great leadership with Ted Leonsis. That's where all franchises are going to succeed or fail based on owner. Ted Ted has been the most committed owner of ever dealt with professional sports and he's all about championships he's got the capital's race abandoned the mystics raise the banner arena football teams. Raise the banner. So course whereas the wizards we're going to do that and we have. What is our absolute goal moving forward? But you can't cut cut corners to get there. We gotTA build it the right way. You mentioned financially. I think we're going to be in a good place moving forward. I cannot predict what the caps gonNA look like. That's not here to discuss Able to add through the draft that through free agents certainly get a roster better when you forward and that's what I'm looking forward to with Brad so at a long answer to your question so it was a long question so you know in a long preamble by me so it deserved a long detailed answer so see what people don't get to see right now or maybe they saw t shirt but it. It says we're not shutting down either of us going to on that. I'm GONNA tell you this Bradley bill for every indication he's given us. He is very happier and moving forward. He's looking forward to the challenge. And that's all great to hear and that is the kind of detailed and thoughtful response I would expect from ut ship and listen ultimately abundantly clear to fans. I would love to see Bradley beal. Stay there I WANNA see Milwaukee. I would've liked to see. Anthony Davis stay with the PELICANS. Like I believe for the good of of the League in general whether we're talking about small market teams or whatever the Non Glamour markets or anywhere I think continuity is ultimately a thing for the league but players have have their you know their agency. They have the ability to steer their own careers. And I fully support that. So I'm never gonNA advocate at should be locked in somewhere stuck there or shouldn't pursue better opportunities. You Know Kevin Durant wanted to go to Oakland. That was fine like I don't have an issue with it at all but I do think there is something you know over the last ten years where it's been. I think more and more difficult for certain markets where you get a guy. You're lucky enough to get a guy who's a true franchise star they blossom. And then you stumble a little bitter. You something else comes up or there's opportunity to play with other stars at their friends with and all of a sudden boom. You're set back years because it's hard to get the guy so I would rather see that stability overall because I think it's a healthier league win every market feels. They've got a chance so I hope that's the case and the only reason I raise it because it's you guys have been in a tough spot there were. You've plateaued a little bit and John's injury and his contract. Frankly Ba I think are fair challenges to raise for you guys but but I've also heard and I should note and you've alluded to it Bradley beal from everything that I've ever heard is incredibly loyal guy really is committed to wanting to be the guy to to you know. Get you guys to to the ultimate goal so I assume otherwise. That's where that's all goes but it's still. It's an interesting case to hypothetical to kind of map out because we are in the era that we're in and you and I have seen all these crazy changes not crazy but just dramatic dramatic changes in the in the way that players and the League operates so there's twenty nine other. Gm's face those questions every day and it's not unlike You know when you're looking at roster every year you're trying to figure out it used to be a five year plan and now I think it's closer to your windows more like three years. Do you WanNa show success and you have to in. I think the the great movement the great thing about movement in the NBA players earned that right. And I have full respect for that. I think it's incumbent on us to show them. This is the best place for them so I have no problem with that. And that's our that's our job to roll that out. Bradley not just season by season but every day. This is the best place for you for your team your future so if you screw it up it's on me. It's not on him. He has the choice like seven. We've been great partners so far across Florida that continue to deal. I think your your beer. It's been growing since this interview getting gray down here too as you can see ya not. I don't see great. Thank you very much to some colorizing on the screen shot that before I posted the twitter. That's the one drawback of letting the lockdown beard grow. Is that the grace that hadn't even realized were there. When I had this thing shorter now. Listen seem very prominent. It's a jarring. You're about to seize Akil. O.`Neil like you've never seen him before this show about my life just because I have more than the average guy doesn't mean I'm better than the average Guy Jack like all new Thursdays at nine on. Tnt SO I wanted to go down. This other path is. We've never really had had this discussion. We know each other a long time Going all the way back to when I started covering the Lakers ninety seven and you were held media relations with the Denver Nuggets. And here we are all these years later and running the Washington Wizards I think you are. I think you and David Griffin of the only guys who would follow this exact path going and we always talk about. You know we've got this. This wave of agents who have become. Gm's now and with the analytics wave and others but you and David Griffin both have have con- entered the League through the media relations side and then moved through the ranks and able to make that leap over to basketball OPS. Did you know like because I had no idea like we were working together back when I was covering the Lakers? You're with the nuggets. I had no idea that this is where you would end up one day or even the jump that you made to become. Ernie's assistant back in three did you. Did you always have that in mind? There was always going to be the case that you're GONNA try to make that jump and do it from the day that I started working in the in the NBA Wooden Denver Nuggets. Working with Bernie bickerstaff. I think the most important thing to me was to the opportunity to grow and it was the the the door that was open to me was media relations. I came through that door and I was blessed to work with Bernie bickerstaff. My First Year Tim. My wake was actually the president of the of the nuggets business side so those are two guys that are titans in the industry in in both of them were very urging. That's on ninety four. You know we didn't have the staff that we have now so one thing that I was able to do. As a as a media relations director was just constantly pick. Bernie's mind but he needed help. There was very small staff. You're trying to get extra information in scouting all those opportunities. I just always ask them what what jobs that he have that nobody else wanted and I would do those jobs in addition to do on regular duties with Pr Bernie really helped me grow. He gave me a lot opportunities to scout in ninety six. I worked the Atlanta Olympics and I was with USA basketball quite a bit. So I got a chance to scout on that entire Olympics. And we'd actually just acquired sharunas smart chaloner's from Sacramento Crazy Olympics we lost the campaign mumbled free agency to the hawks. This saint time and we actually had drafted a player from Greece. Who was playing on the national team so at the Olympics? A lot of stuff happened for me that gave me opportunities to become more regular give. Contributions from scouting side does group. You know what I wanted to do was be in the NBA. When I was six years old to play in the NBA. Julius erving was my idol. That's all I wanted to play in the NBA. And somehow that evolved. When I got to high school I knew I wasn't going to play in the NBA. But how could I get to the of yet? In getting in the door through media relations it was really about working in the League or Patriots and just evolved but my biggest desire was always put team together so I'm just so blessed and very very lucky to be where map. This is exactly the job I always wanted to be a GM of an NBA team. All those years you know people ask WanNa do what I do and I said well you gotTa do what I did. Put in twenty six years of being away from my family and really give up everything. I could just make our team better So so it's very satisfying. Certainly to be where I'm out. I don't enjoy the view looking back very much when I do look at it. It's been amazing. Ride for twenty six years but the view looking forward to so much more positive for me awards. GonNa go have an opportunity to work with such great owners. Such great city would players like Bradley You know it's very gratifying. You tell me Your Story. Such a great example of how. It's not necessarily. You don't have to train for a specific thing right. You didn't have to go to sportsmen business management school or something or be go up through the scouting ranks necessarily to them become the seventh in line and then the fifth in line and the work your way up that like there's different routes to this and that people who are smart analytical thoughtful obviously dedicated willing to put it in all the work that you can come up variety of paths and I always I just. I think he's a great lesson for anybody in any industry but certainly in the NBA that there's not one path to to running a team and coming through the media relations route. Get to meet a bunch of great folks like me. You know all all the pain in the ASS beat writers asking you for all kinds of stuff. I always appreciated by the back of the. This is what I always. I don't know why this is what I remember telling me like all the things you did. It's insulting to to list this one. I I just remember that you always had like a nice postgame spread of food in the work room so we were on deadline. Our blood sugar wasn't like you know diving and everybody wanting to kill each other so like appreciate that kept us fed back in the day but some of those nuggets teams weren't very good. I figured out the least we do watch basketball which they at least give you a good meal and some cold beer but You know everything for me that sports top media. I play basketball my whole life but when when I got to college I ended up. Playing football assigned the big thing. I've always taken for from from my athletic career which was not very distinguished but my athletic ray always told me about teamwork on the youngest. Scotty Brooks is the youngest of Seven. We both know to get along with people. You better figure out how to motivate had to have great conversations hard conversations how to get along you do that every day of your life through the youngest seven especially but within the confines of team you always know that no matter what for that thing to succeed everybody has to have a role everybody has to work together and everybody has to have a work ethic. That's extremely high competitive. And I've taken that everywhere I've gone in the NBA. The best players on the plan. And they're the funnest guys to watch. And you know I watched you in your career and you. You got a chance to watch once in a lifetime. Kobe Bryant in watching him come up and some of the pictures I saw as we reflect back on Kobe's career there. You always worry right in the corner so right when he came into the League when people were made me doubt number maybe thinking. Hey this guy's not all that when he was nineteen years old the series and. Utah's stuff and it will you both of us have seen this the trajectory of the League where it was where it's going the league's always going to have talent. They're always going to be in good hands but to enjoy the ride while we're going at is the most important things scraped players today watching the last reminder. There's great players for guess what there's GonNa be great players that are gonNA become an in the future you mentioned Bernie Bickerstaff as among the mentor. Figures there as you as you're coming up the ranks whether it was Bernie or whether it was Dennis Lou whoever else like what is there something that's stuck with you. You're still today like this. Is this is how you knew how to pursue any part of the business whether it's player relations whether it's scouting whatever it may be in that the basketball operations world. What's what are the lessons of stuck with you from those guys but one of the pivotal moments for me? It was. It's always. It's about relationships on percent and we had a situation where we actually traded a player. Antonio mcdyess was traded to Phoenix that summer and then there was a lockout and then he was wondering more coveted free agents that year and it was assumed he's GonNa go back to Phoenix and we ended up getting back to Denver at the time in that during that time. Dan this'll give me a great opportunity to help recruit Antonio as a free agent back and that was unusual. I've still kind of your guy. But to have that responsibility I think spoke volumes to me that they value my relationship with Sonia and to bring him back to DC or to to Denver. Excuse me he was an all star. he was tremendous tremendous person. And I think the relationships are what brought back. Obviously his career anew. He moved on after several years. Those relationships at that time that that opportunity to help recruit him back to Denver. I think is one moment that really felt like you know what I have pretty good relationship with players. And I think I can make an impact and I think that's GonNa make me valuable to franchise moving forward to my wife and I. We've been married twenty six years. We thought for sure probably moving around every three or four years. That's how the sports business goes. We've been in two places I've been with two teams twenty six twenty six years. That's a man. What a bus. Yeah it is amazing. And I'm very grateful for that but as I look back. It's all about the relationships with players that I really take back. There's been an art losses. That have been great. Wins is never high enough to cover the lows but the relationships value. I think that's what got me. The opportunity to be where a mets mcdyess Kabbalah too and before the injuries and everything he was good he was granted. Today would be around. Some good was last night as a matter of fact your watch them via TV. It showed the nineteen ninety. Four is the first time an eight ever be to one. So Denver had beat Seattle that year in Seattle and only lost four games at home and the the nuggets. I was actually still. Unlv at that time but watching the nuggets there. You know I remember watching Robert Pack now Robertson of our assistant coaches that I still keep up with the funds as well as Scott all the time and Brian just down the Road Old Dominion Decamping tumbles. A huge part of my life. The ties that we make those relationships. They don't end when you leave. They they continue and this is among the reasons why I always advocate. We should go back to the best of five first round because the eight one upset like it never happens anymore. I know there's been some somebody went up. Sets the best of seventy two but man a nugget over Sonics was one of the all-time great upsets and of course it's one of those iconic images of Cambay on his back holding the ball with both hands in front of his head so emotional like such a that was just such a joyous amazing moment. I remember I remember watching that game actually before my Mba beat writing career began. But Yeah I love the best of five first round yes I know. I'm never getting it back. Although maybe this maybe this year we got you never know maybe best of the three first round this year for. We know a couple of months before I let you go. I don't think I knew until I was looking at your bio you're from Albuquerque. Originally so I I got ask are you are you a breaking bad and better call Saul Fan because we've been we've binged bread breaking bad so that we can watch better call Saul. We caught up on that. And the finale for the most recent season was just the other night are you. Are you into the that that whole saga? I am an avid fan of breaking bad in better call. Saul actually probably better than breaking bad. The more I watch the shows the Oh those shows put put albuquerque on the map Around the around the world actually when I go travel in Europe and talk players With some of the first things we talked about. Where we're from and I say Albuquerque New Mexico and they always looking Michael Breaking bad so I guess you gotta be famous for something. But I'm a huge follower of those shows. They're phenomenal we. We've traveled in New Mexico a little bit of vacation. There are a couple of years ago when we hit ghost ranch. And we did Santa Fe Albuquerque and just one is. It's it's absolutely stunning. Just gorgeous. And Yeah of course. The the Meth lab part of the show is the drug trade. Not What you want to be known for but if it's a at least if nothing else introduce people to just what a gorgeous part of the country that is I just remember the driving down the highway there just the contrast of this this deep blue sky and the various tones of of of the mountains canyons desert. Whatever it just. It's it's gorgeous. I Love I love that part of the country. I want to get back there at some point again. We had A. We had a blast out there and I was grateful to be from there and I think and I think you're right better call Saul. The critics are now saying this. Did they feel like it has surpassed breaking bad? Both of them phenomenal. James Borrego a is apparently also from Albuquerque. Didn't realize that. Did you know where I don't know if you guys are a little bit of age wise right so did you guys? Any ties back to Albuquerque with Borrego. Well we always tease each other. Because he wants my rival high school years apart but the you know the the amount of anonymity we have each other school continues. Dame's is very proud of him and he's been in what he's done in his career to this point what he's going to do you know we we stick together because we both know we know exactly where from. We both know exactly the same streets the same food. The same restaurants saint people in some cases but You know he's somebody that what he did especially in his time in San Antonio to distinguish himself We're very proud to have him in our new Mexican family. But I think there's there's going to be more people I think you the more you go out and see state. I think it'd be more expansion out hopefully out there but from a basketball standpoint. You're looking at it. Not Too many people in the NBA from from New Mexico. No not really Mexico S Q so you said you were a doctor Jay Fan. Because you're not obviously the New Mexico you choose whoever you want as a sports fan really did you. So did you end up. Adopting the sixers as a kid or like what was your. Nba team on a percents. Seventy sixers fan because of the nineteen seventy seven. Because of Julie's. I can't tell you the amount of time I spent China. Comb my hair out like his Afro We used to cut the tube socks. We cut the tops off our socks. More sweat bands. We run around Jonah. Just do everything. We could be like Julie's But when Moses came to the sixers out that was by far the greatest moment for me seek Julius get championship that he deserves so much and then that Israel might you talked about moments in the NBA or Osama bin. Julius erving there was all like do not ask for autographs. You didn't know. Wow you attempt to be tempted. Absolutely I kept that one inside but I did tell them you sure made me love basketball in and at that time I was in the NBA. I'm in the NBA. Today because you WANNA la these are dead from a lot of different people but it meant the world for me to be able to tell him that world's me. That's very cool before I let you go. You mentioned the last dance earlier so all I ask you either or both of these cures. Either your because you did overlap Early in your career with Jordan tailend of of his or his last three people with the Bulls. Jim Jordan story where you intersected along the way at all and I've been collecting people's favourite Kobe Bryant Memories. Whether it's a game play any moment whatever. Give me if you've got them your favorite Jordan memory or encounter and same with Kobe. Well you know. There's so many to pick from but one that I always laugh about your. They won seventy two games. It didn't win any three because we beat them. Denver and it was. It was just one of those nights. They've was I think they're on the end of a very road trip? Probably weren't taking us very serious at Greg Game. The fawns was walking off the court and he gave me kind of one of those fist pumps and and you know and ran off the floor and then or sports game Michael Jordan said. I'm Michael. Forget about jumping on the scorer's table and getting the fans all whipped up in the house like it didn't happen. That did not happen. I swear to you. I watched the soap. Walk up the court certainly. We went back to Chicago and he mentioned it again how he was going to take it out on us and they did the Bulls were the greatest obscene twenties accused but I'll never forget that what Michael would do to motivate himself then obviously Kobe. There's US so much about the competitive nature of that kid and you can see all of us that live through Jordan saw so many similarities that he took Michael's gangbusters the ability for Kobe. That just go out every single night and put on her show. Those are the those are the the the the you look at the season. There's eighty two games but you always do eyeball when somebody that. I always come in when you know you're going to see him because that's must see TV. He's he was a unbelievable player but I think the one thing that always impressed Kobe. Take the time to do interviews with international journalists. They can pull it off in Italian easily Spanish and stuff to eat show so many sides himself and I met Kobe with my dance only who was his childhood hero and that's why he started wearing the Jersey number that he did when he started and Kobe was always great to me. I just because that connection with might I don't know how their relationship after he coached the Lakers but Kobe was always great. Because of that. I think that's People always forget about the brief Dantonio era in Denver which was at the lockout season in ninety nine. It came right out of it. He came in and actually started out as a he was a personnel director and then he became an assistant coach and he was the head coach. I think we could have been very successful. Just was is his style of play was the right right style. Play just the wrong time ready for that yet. Yeah no it took a while. He had a detour back to Italy. And then it was a few years later he came back to Phoenix. And of course we we know we know how that went so awesome. We'll hate a history. Yeah teashop this has been great and catchy long but I appreciate all the time all the fun stories. This has been been phenomenal. Glad we were able to keep you successfully sequestered long enough in a corner of the house where you could have some time. Because I know you've got a busy household there really sincerely appreciate you. Give me the opportunity to come on and look forward to catching up down the road when when this thing opens up where we're really going to enjoy being. Dr Games of being in our element probably more than ever and I look forward to seeing you again down the road so take care lies in your apartment. I your condo. I saw CACTUS. Won't buy their beer grow. It's been a very fun time for me. The cat if I if I close the door behind me then she just starts smacking at it rattling it and get you know. It's it's Katzman if you let her in if I look just WANNA tap to get back out against yeah. Let's this out kids. I know exactly. I think the kids are leaves are easier to hurt than than the cats still anyway. Teashops thanks again and it's been great. Have a great one.

NBA League wizards basketball Bradley WanNa John Wall Bradley beal GM John Washington Wizards Bernie bickerstaff Bradley Ted Leonsis Lakers spotify Kevin Durant general manager
The Wacky Wizards, the LeBron-AD Duo, and Coach Tim Duncan | The Mismatch

The NBA Show

1:02:59 hr | 1 year ago

The Wacky Wizards, the LeBron-AD Duo, and Coach Tim Duncan | The Mismatch

"Hey Kelly and welcome to the ringer podcast network. It's the season finale of big little lies on Sunday so make sure to check out our final episode of her life after show with the ringers Amanda Dobbins and E._S._p._N.'s Mikhail Games you can tune in on twitter too big little live right right after the episode ends also this week's twenty nine thousand nine open championship marks of final major championship golf season to check out fairway role in where Joe House is joined by a cast bringer and Gulf world personalities for everything. You need to know heading into the weekend you you can find new episodes on apple spotify or wherever you get your podcasts welcome to the Ringer N._B._A.. Show I'm Chris Vernon Jordan him as he does. Every Tuesday from the ringer. Dot Com is Kevin O'Connor Aka Kevin O. Bomber a Gay Kevin O. Conflict. They Kevin O. Concert a Hey Kevin Camera Aka Kevin Candy Land Cav Burn. Oh what's going on by well. Everything finally slow down a little bit after Summer League. I mean it just all felt like this incredible whirlwind where nothing really slowed down. We went straight into the N._B._A.. Draft Post N._B._A.. Finals and then we went into free agency which then spilled over into Summer League League which then ended up with these crazy trades and and the whole league flipping upside down <hes> and now we've actually had a little bit of downtime over the last couple of weeks but some news has happened including one of the teams that we would not suspect that necessarily that we would be talking about but that is the Washington Wizards and kind of news they are making number one hiring Sashi Brown who many people will remember was hired to do a he. The Guy had been compared the Hanky in the sense that it was going to be incredible incredible amounts of losing and then the team would be stocked up with <hes> money there would be stocked up with draft picks and of course now we know John Dorsey is the ones getting the fruits of that Labor Labor that was a one and thirty one record in Cleveland and he has made <hes> great draft picks and he has spent the money that they had <hes> for free agency wisely and so the browns look in in a Primo situation right now but made this guy not getting to see his quote N._F._l.. Process through and I read Kevin corks article did make him a martyr of sorts and so now wildly a guy the N._f._l.. has never been <hes> considered necessarily progressive but now a guy from the N._F._l.. Now moves over to the N._B._A.. Side to assist Ted Leonsis and Tommy Sheppard and then you don't no what it is the total tear down what's next for the wizards and then how do we square that with the report that they are ready to try to sign brad beal to an extension. What do we make of it? All Oh and you know also Tommy Sheppard was officially announce as general manager after serving as an in term G._M.. Since April <hes> so that became official as well and he still really make the head Honcho here Sashi Brown is the intriguing higher as Kevin. I'm Clark wrote in his piece on the Ringer where it sort of echoes hinky coming in as the strategic planning guy sort of behind the scenes and maybe at some point brown rises up the rankings but his role as a as it was announced the press really seems to be something where he's helping across teams including on their W._n._B._A.. Team as well <hes> so Tommy Sheppard still the main guy there and as shepherd himself said on we'll just podcast or some interview that he's going offer Bradley beal the Max as soon as they're allowed to which is this Friday which Bradley beal will naturally in all likelihood decline at one hundred hundred eleven million over three years because he can earn more by waiting until next year <hes> so for the wizards. It's unlikely unlikely bill would accept that offer and for the rest of the League beale has already the guy. That's hop of everybody's list. That is the most likely star to be possibly traded next. If you're the wizards it's going to be interesting to see how shepherd and this new regime tax scenario here because bill was absolutely incredible. After John Wall went down midseason Chris like he was one of the better guards in the league and his playmaking elevated to another level where they put the ball all in his hands and if you're the wizards you don't have a lot of time to prove to him like hey. We're the team that you can win with his after these past couple years and how sour things have gone with them. They need to start building around bill well. The problem is is it's hard to build. You have John Wall making the money that he is so for them. I do wonder if it's GonNa come to a point whether it's January or February leading up to the trade deadline where offers become so significant like we just saw with some other for deals happened in the summer. If at some point bill becomes the guy that can swing the pendulum in favor towards one team to become a clear favourite bill could be that player word team just makes an obscene offer in order to land him because the wizards aren't yeah good. They're not going to be good at all so at some point I wonder if for shepherd an offer become something that you have to accept well and the other thing is does it give him an out if they come in and they say hey we offered Brad Bill. The Max like that was that was track A and if he that was going to signal if he wants to be a part of this going forward and at that point we realized okay he doesn't you no it doesn't want to be the guy that we do everything in mind to build around and so we've got to pivot and so it gives you a little bit of it's kind of phony but it gives you a little bit of an out and if you're Brad beal you are smack DAB lab in the middle of your prime right now. There is no chance they are going to be good within what I mean. It's going to be hard as hell with that John Wall unless you can get off that John Wall contracts choice. I'm out and nobody really thinks that's a possibility. This has to be a long view plan because it's going to be really hard to build a winner. When you've got such a large percentage of your cap tied up to a guy I mean the only chance would be of wall does US comeback and is a great player again and what are the chances of that? We don't really know it's possible though it possible John Wall I mean look. I've never been a big John Wall Fan. I'm just not but I think his his limitations as shooter <hes> at times as an efficient decision-maker his inactivity off ball his poor defense that to me you know limits is ceiling as a player but he's still really good. He's still a good player and with John Wall salary. Let's act like this is a seven year deal. His contract expires after the twenty twenty one twenty two seasons so right after this year which is sort of something that you're punting on when he's likely to miss the entire year there's only two years left so if you trade deal and like you're rebuilding for the next two years with John Wall salary maybe after that next year twenty twenty twenty twenty one maybe at that point John Wall becomes unattractive piece for team to trade for entering the twenty twenty one off season when there's undoubtedly going to be a star that desires playing with another star maybe at that point John Wall Restores has value in the wizards are able to move on from him that cannot be ruled out out at all because we don't know how the landscape you league will change. We just had we just had Chris. Paul traded who is far older and and just as expensive as John Wall get traded in this unfathomable Russell Westbrook trade. It is possible for John All to get dealt at some point in the future despite all the flaws in his game despite the injuries so for the wizards. I think there's a lot of logic the training Bradley beal sooner rather than later because if you wait until next summer that's what value declines when he only has the one one year left on his deal now it's to use if you deal them right now at this moment and if it's in February it so you and a half so I think for the wizard says logic to making a deal ahead of time if if it hits a point where offers something that you can't say no to and I I think it will because Bradley beal's a damn good player and he somebody who for many many years has played second fiddle to John Wall and has excelled in that role as off ball shooters a guy who runs secondary pick and rolls but he showed that he can be even more than that <hes>. I'm not sure he's your number one guy championship team but he's absolutely capable of being your number two and as you said Chris he's in his prime. He's only twenty six years old and he feels that he's been in the league forever but he's only twenty six yeah. Nobody it's constantly getting better too and if you're him you don't WanNa waste twenty six twenty seven twenty eight yes right like this is now. This is not the time to be rebuilding. You know what I mean. This is not the time and to be rebuilding time <hes> you don't WanNa look up and now you've got a chance to win when you're thirty right and like though seasons that you've had have been great seasons but they've been spent maybe even without playoff berths <hes> the return that you can get. I mean I do feel like the stock is very very high. I mean the guys coming off. This crazy season like twenty five points you know he does everything was so good yeah. He was. I'm fine rebound in the great part is like he had greater volume but his efficiency efficiency stayed constant if anything better with more volume with more responsibility and so when we have seen this has been one of the things that we've talked about and we didn't know if it air it if it's anomalies because of the situations that these teams were put in or if this is going to be become more common because of less value being put on high draft picks the the reward or the return that you get set by moving star players <hes> you know we've seen teams give up a boatload to get Paul George a boatload to get Anthony Davis and we're gonNA find when it comes to somebody we like Brad. Beal were those just extreme cases that that's not going to be commonplace and they were special cases because of what the the Davis situation was and the Lakers and the Lakers needed to trade for Anthony Davis the clippers needed to trade for Paul George they were under the gun to do it therefore they were willing to give up this that and the other and everything <hes> future assets to get those deals is done does another team step up and do it with bill. You know an I'll give you even another instance this could even fall closer maybe to kind of in the middle of the Davison the George type of returns and then the commonly return which was a great return for Memphis and a return that keeps on giving included picks included players included contracts he could flip into this that and the other and maybe somewhere in between there is what you get for bill but I buy what you're selling that somebody out. There is GONNA look if they may this. This guys like chance to be one of the top twenty players in the League for the next five years and so what's the cost of doing business on this. I mean it's gotta be a lot yeah. It's going to be a lot and for Washington. That's what makes it so interesting because when you and I I started doing this show Chris in two thousand sixteen that that was was at a time in the league I remember I wrote something. Maybe it was September twenty sixteen. It was like state of the trademark in the N._B._A.. And it was about how Jimmy Butler demarcus cousins Paul George all these star players on these teams were were really entering a nearing crossroads where these teams would have to make a choice on these players and I remember at the time like understandably bowls fans with Butler and kings fans with cousins and Pacers fans with George. We're like no way we're trading these guys. There's no chance like like would not be the right thing to do but over these past few years as you said Chris so many players have been treated that are superstars for significant rewards and virtually the every team if not all those teams that traded those star players are in a better position today than they were prior and that includes the kings that includes the bowls that includes the pace the pacers for that matter includes every single team traded star player in an hour may also include the Oklahoma City Thunder for doing what they did this off season and so for Washington you could get a significant return for Bradley beal because he's a guy that for one thing he can fit next to anybody he is already proven that he can excel a role next to another star player another ball dominant star but he's also shown that he could be one of the guys that is in control of the offense so for one. That's what he has but he also has a salary that is easily easily acquire making twenty seven million dollars this year it is not hard for any number of teams to assemble the right amount of salaries required to make a midseason trade so for the Washington Wizards their significant appeal and after after December December fifteenth and finding a trade partner and I think personally like it's hard to come up with trade ideas because there's so many to come up with any team could use a Bradley beal and so in a year with elitist so wide open I do think he is somebody buddy that I think these the circumstances we saw with George and Colli were unique but I think they could also be unique with bill in the sense that he fits so many places on there so many teams that could acquire him so Washington could face a scenario where there's just an insane bidding war for him assuming he's healthy midseason assuming continues to excel which feel safe to say that could occur so the wizards. They're in a rough spot here like when you look around the league. I don't think there's many teams you can look at it and say they're in a bad position physician. A lot of teams are in a good spot right now where either they're in clear contention or they're rebuilding team with appealing young core Washington is one of the teams where you're like. Oh like they're in a tough spot but if they're able to get a massive return for beal I suddenly that changes were wall only two years left on his contract and maybe at some point he becomes tradable. It's not unfathomable for Washington to turn this around and maybe it's more like one of those because we always look for who's got assets who's got mix and whatnot but in. With teams becoming less interested in the picks just given the the smoothing out of the draft right that you don't have as good a chance <hes> even if you're trading with somebody that's supposed to be super crappy. It's possible that they end up with the fifth pick or the six pick in the draft and so their chances of being number one two or three have been decreased. We even just saw this past year with the Pelicans of the grizzlies moving up to the first and second spot and and the Knicks for all they're losing they end up with the third spot and then it went down from there to some of the teams had really bad seasons but then didn't end up with some kind of great prize for the draft <hes> so maybe you see more like the the first Paul George deal where you get young talent like in all the depot or so bonus or like the Jimmy Butler deal that you mentioned where they get the seventh pick and they get Chris done and they get Zach Levin right you get some you get some young players that are in those early contracts because that kind of fits whatever your timelines going to be with Washington she go out and he tried to find the team. That's got some young players that you particularly like and and so now you have the young players as the assets but and maybe one of them develops into a great player like Ola Depot did and then on the other hand. You know you still get some draft picks so that you've got that's there. You're in the case that you can get mega lucky when it comes to the draft or if nothing else it's a great asset to have. I I do think that could get big return and then the figuring out is now. What what do we do on the wall front front and you've just gotTa hope against hope that he's able to come back and look like a player? Maybe he's not worth the contract that he's got but it's not super long and what if he can return to you know a guy that might make an all star team again it's possible possible and he was making all star teams when he was healthy. Despite what anybody's opinion was US yeah an outstanding player and so if he could even get to that level somebody there thinks hey you could you who could swing this for we got John Wall and we put them with some guys now. All of a sudden we got a pretty good team and he's only on their books for another year after this one right sure and your to your point about going for a younger Guy Chris <hes> that's sort along the lines were thinking for Washington where if you can get a young guy who will be restricted free agent neither twenty twenty or twenty twenty one with picks on top of that. There's a lot of appeal there in a couple names that come to mind is somebody like dejount Genre Murray on the Spurs who will be restricted free agent and twenty twenty or or Jalen Brown the Celtics if they wanted to pair Kemba Walker with Bradley beal on their back court they have plenty of picks offer as well or even New Orleans. If New Orleans is having a damn. I'm good year and they're like hey. Let's accelerate this thing and make a run. Maybe you can flip somebody like a an ingram or Lonzo ball. I'm just I'm not saying necessarily something I would do but you can see the scenario there. Were you have so many picks so many young guys. Maybe you add a guy who's also young Bradley Beal's only twenty six and he can help accelerate your rebuild and maybe make you push into the playoffs Zion's having this great year. You never know point being is there's a lot of guys out there that fit fit the criteria that you mentioned the young player would when you have is rights as a restricted free agent and teams that have picks on top of that that they could give <hes> there there could be a lot out there for Washington. Turn this thing around and you don't really know which direction they are going to go. <hes> I guess S. we'll find out I mean the big shocker would be a brad beal says okay. I'll take the hundred eleven million because look at worst than that still incredibly tradable contract rights. You just go ahead and you say hey I've seen what's happened to some other guys. I'M GONNA go ahead and lock myself in for one hundred eleven million on top of what have already got and I could force a trade out of year like now the contract stuff. We've just seen it so much it. I don't want to be here and I'm not part of their time line. I mean I've got that contract and that contract is still desirable to anybody that wants to trade for me and I've locked in by money <hes> it would be shocking if he took that given the the amount that you expressed he could make more but it's I mean it's. It's not the craziest thing in the world to think that he says okay. I'll take the hundred eleven you know yeah. Is there any logic to riding this out and seeing if you can keep them like take us into next summer there's logic images because he's frigging awesome. I wanted to touch on that because I mean we've talked partially because of my tendency to blow it up. No I mean look look. We don't know is he cool with it is he cool being the man in Washington and wants to see Washington but come a big time winner. He's a great guy fans love him and so if he's cool with it then yeah okay. We're GONNA do this but you're gonNA find out rather quick how much he wants to be a part of that because if he looks around and says you know what y'all are going straight rebuild and I I'm not here for this. You know give me somewhere else. The problem is like if you're Washington and less these young scrappy rookies and guys like Isaiah Thomas these veterans are able to really surpassed expectations. There's really not another guy out there right now. On the radar that you could realistically ad or pursue that could enhance your current situation where Bradley beal would look at it more fondly <hes> in order to sign an extent so that's partially the issue facing the wizards right now besides Bradley beal. There's not a realistically acquire -able star out there that could make your situation significantly better one nice thing on this and this regards the sashi Brown stuff because his name does come up with Hinky in terms of a guy that blue something up to smithereens acquired all kinds of <hes> draft picks money etcetera made some mistakes along the way but in the end the excessive losing they were not able to see it through to the other side side and someone else came in and was able to reap the benefits at least <hes> some short-term Colangelo before his falling out and then the guy's in Philly now and then you're seeing what John Dorsey who has made greats. It's one thing to have the pitch that's another the thing that nail the picks and it appears though they were not popular at the time to take Baker Mayfield to take Denzel Award to take some of the guys that they have taken he's nailed the picks <hes> and then probably we will see see with Jarvis. Landry and others nailed free agency Got Eldorado Beckham junior now for God's sakes <hes> maybe he's nailed all of the moves there but he had this you know almost plate of nothingness to build from and it was full of money draft picks and that's because of the original tear down and one of the points it was made and we mentioned Kevin Kirk wrote about this. I thought there was something that was interesting. In there which was in some uncertain terms it was basically that it was a different world when Hanky did it and so now the expectation that somebody would come and if he is really you know in charge advise hey we need to do this total and complete complete tear down like the process and lose excessively which it stands to reason he might be that kind of guy simply because of what he did when he was with the browns but that because of the odds and because of the smoothing out of the draft it's different gain that whatever the process looked like that's under different rules that's under a different that's in a different world and it did make me think as I'm reading that like I can almost feels like Sam. hinkie wouldn't do the process now right because the tenants were you have this incredible opportunity the way the rules. Are you have this incredibly opera opportunity to get any the elite level player if you have the worst record and so now that those odds are simply not the same you wonder if in this world would hinky do it like he did and I I think the answer is probably know. And how much does that change the way somebody like. Sashi Brown thinks about how to go about fixing an N._B._A.. Team now right yeah. Absolutely I mean I'd I'd never really thought about that but like what's the method now like if I gave him Hanky a team now and I said go build me a winner. A key probably goes about it a what differently than the CO process short and that's sort of always been the case. I think a little bit more so now because of nature of the game I think I know bill and I talked about this on his pod last week but I believe you and I touched on it as well with the state of the the value of draft picks yep and how that sort of diminished because there's no guarantee that you can keep guys for ten to fifteen years now because so many players are pushing their way out or willing to leave <hes> never mind the fact that the possibility the of draft odds the fact draft odds are flattened decreases. The incentives who get high draft picks that decreases that the need to go full on process like the sixers did <hes> but as for Sam Hinkie if he ever got another the job it depends on what that team situation is that that's what was always kind of silly to me when you and I back in the day just a couple of years ago used to argue about blowing it up. It was very very few teams that I really thought needed to quote unquote. Blow it up just like right now. I look the league and I I really can't point out a single team. That clearly needs the blow it up but besides maybe Washington there's just a lot of teams. That's Kinda weird here to say. I said this earlier but there's a lot of teams in a good position right now. There's just not many teams where you're like. Wow they're screwed. I feel like a couple years ago. When you and I started this podcast Chris there's there's a whole bunch of those teams and right now? There's not I don't know why. Why do you think that could be how many teams are the where like I wouldn't want to be them? CHARLOTTE CHARLOTTE CHARLOTTE CHARLOTTE IS IN CHARLOTTE. It SORTA stops there. I mean you'll eveland Cleveland's and a tough spot because the one layer to in loves and then IT'S KINDA surround every Cleveland and Washington or a lot like each other honestly I agree Cleveland would be there too but even then you can look at Darius Garland. Dan Collins Sexton. It'd be like Oh yeah. There's something here you know that back court I it's not hopeless with Phoenix you can look at Bannon and say well at least they have Devon Booker under contract you can at least say that even with Detroit I mean they're sort of stuck in the middle but even with them you can look at them and be like hey at least Blake and Andre Drummond one move away but they're not and I and I hate to bag on the Charlotte but when I was outed when I was out at Summer League I did this podcast castle my buddy <hes> Tim Bontemps E._S._p._N.. Has Just kill say stop. He'll just say it like you know e. Northeast guy talks like very matter of fact right and so he says look you look around the league and like you go to games on a regular basis like you do Chris and you say like for every night. There's somebody you WanNa see on the other team. There's somebody that's like on that team. That's coming in town. That's the league is a great place and he said except for Charlotte <hes> and he said they are in the worst position of any team in American professional sports and I was like wait hold on now because you would when somebody says something like that matter of fact. I'm like I don't even I don't even know how I'm going to think through every team in American professional sport but I also was like you know I mean I like Mas Bridges in college but it is tough. That is the game that it's like who he excited to go to the arena at the C.. Like to your point almost everybody's got somebody that is worth the you know maybe not worth the price of emission but if you've got the tickets it certainly worth seeing them shake set for that may be the only team and I hate to say see that root for the small market teams but you look up and down and given their situation I mean it's a roster is like I mean it's like Biz. Maybe Ombo Zeller Kid Gilchrist and Batumi and I mean they're just locked up into all this money and once Campbell was gone but Kemba was the answer but now there's really not an answer. There's really not absolutely and I think Charlotte's on a level of their own but after that there's maybe five teams that you would look got Orlando Detroit Washington Phoenix and Cleveland where you're like. Oh could be in a rough spot here but but even then on those teams. I don't think it's as extreme of dire situation as it was for some of these teams <hes> maybe maybe just three four five years ago right all right. We'll get right back to WANNA remind everybody. Today's episode mismatch is brought to you by express. I love jeans. I wear jeans all the time and you want something. That's comfortable. You want something. 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Today's mismatches also brought to you by Google fi doesn't feel like most phone plans just weren't made with us in mind between bad coverage paying too much for your data. You don't actually use crazy roaming charges. Google Fi is a phone plan by Google made with features that people like you and I actually want features like free international roaming. You never have to worry about calling up your provider to let them know you're going to be traveling and three and one networks so you can stay connected wherever you are from in your home to your office and everywhere in between Google fireworks on your favorite smartphones so you don't have to switch phones just to switch plans in fact it's as easy as just downloading the APP and you only have to pay for the day to use plus with bill protection. Section even if you use a lot of data your bill is cap that reasonable amount learn more at Fi- dot google dot com. That's F. I.. Dot Google dot com switch to Google fine a phone planned by by Google. Let's move on to some of the other news that has taken place you recently we talked about how everything's been flipped upside down you wrote about Duos and you wrote about the biggest one and that is the Anthony Davis Lebron James duo which interestingly enough happened in what feels like so long ago. It almost feels like we've already seen them that a high. We've been talking about it and reading about it and thinking about it for so long. It feels like a do oh. That's been together already for a long time because we've had all these other ones that we I would have never suspected we would never have suspected that Coli Leonard Paul George we're going to do oh we certainly would not have expected in our wildest dreams that Russell Westbrook and James Harden or do oh we thought there's at least something jumped out there but we really didn't know until it came time that Kyrie Irving and Kevin durant would eventually be duo like Jimmy Butler is the only guy that he doesn't really have a duo guy with him but his movies but you had these different duos grow through free agency and trade over the course of the last several weeks you focused on the one that is the the elder statesman I suppose of the duo's and took some time to think about that and how that works and kind of how they built around them and Lebron being out last year in the Laker not having the season. I think it is kind of taken people off the sent a little bit that at Pika Powers Lebron is the best guy there is a now you're teaming up with Anthony Davis who is in the argument as a guy that can be D- best player in the League at some point maybe sooner than later and so when you get to thinking about that and you're going to be writing about it what comes up well first of all Chris. How dare you disrespect the duo in Miami Jimmy Butler and dion waiter stop do I do you want to hear something crazy real quick because you brought up the waiters? It made me think of this but Joe House has been in town in Memphis because there is a huge world golf championship that is going on a W._G._C.. The event in Memphis and Joe House has been here all week doing shows with me and hanging out and whatnot and so the pro-am for this deal is tomorrow and with any pro-am they bring in celebrities to play in the program mm-hmm and so it's people that are like big in the Gulf community or have a real liking golf that are very famous right so it'll be like the guy that hosts the bachelor and it'll be some arison house. That's cool. They'll be like JOE EISMAN and they'll be like you know did all kinds of people right but there's a couple N._B._A.. Guys sleepy fully is one of the N._B._A.. Guys Big Golfer but check this out and Joe House confides in me. He says the story he is. He is extremely good and I was like no way get this because you brought a beyond waiters. That made me think of this guy. It's J._R.. Smith what's The J. R. J. R Smith he said this guy's got like this great short game. One of my buddies played with him and he's like the real deal and I was like this is insane. If I were going we have a list of guys with my you know. This is one of those where destroys your perceptions right like I'm thinking it takes patience and it takes this you know even Keel and like all the things things that I think about like the reasons I fail when I'm golfing right by A._D._D.. At my lack of Beijing and my all these things and I'm like this guy this Guy Kinda goofy right been but evidently awesome gopher that you absolutely would wanna be paired with in a pro-am and I was like what the Hell I had no idea I knew curry really good plays a lot. Mike Conley really good plays a lot igwe. Dalla Allah has gotten really into it and is a big time Golfer but that was the first. I didn't even know that that was true J._R. Smith but evidently accomplished Golfer J._R.. Smith figure that out I I just googled J._R.. Smith Golf to the fact check this essentially for twenty fourteen an article on bleacher report headlined for Most N._B._A.. Players Golf is just a hobby but for J._R.. Smith it's a way a of life. I told you find years ago. Even unbelievable twenty fourteen was five years ago. That's a different conversation but dude playing he's playing in the pro-am. No less so anyways always going back to the original point did you you WanNa start thinking about Lebron and Anthony Davis and writing about that and so now as you're GonNa go about writing that article and start thinking about this duo of which we feel like we've known about for a year or maybe we've been thinking about Anthony Davis Lebron forever but now you're going to try to put it down with a pen and paper as it were or a keyboard and what are you start thinking about actually on typewriter. That's what I use this in regards to that article <hes> it SORTA started out with me and my editor Chris Ryan just about like Hey Anthony. Davis is probably going to elevate his game even to a higher level now that he's playing with the broad James that's just sorta words started like this this outstanding player who in New Orleans with these average mediocre teams over the years without any potent wing players without reliable defenders around him jrue holiday manage to turn into a three-time any time all N._B._A.. Defender a guy who is one of the best on most unstoppable offensive forces in the league he turned into that in New Orleans. Somebody who is an all around superstar offense who can do it all somebody who can defend every position Shen on defense at at least an average level but is also one of the most devastating most feared rim-protector in the league. That's what he turned into a New Orleans and now he's GonNa play alongside Lebron James who is going to be by far domes- playmaker he's ever played with by far the best player who's ever played with and not to mention Danny Green despite the fact he's older is the best wing Anthony Davis has ever played with so. That's where it's SORTA started but then then when you're thinking about the let me take satellite. You really believe Lebron. James is a better playmaker than Tim Frazier he might he might he's better than some frazier. Maybe not better the MELFORD Peyton each one more or Rajon Rondo Solomon who yeah but that's sort of like I mean let the fact is Lebron's clearly. The best players played with the fact Danny Green is better than any wing he's ever played with sort of really good but like no disrespect to <hes> each one more or Tyrique Evans or Eric Gordon who did not have you know a good year alongside A._D.. <hes> not suspected those guys are solid players but Dana Green's better fit next to them <hes> and the Orleans still you know over the years is constantly always struggled to find the right pieces of Gordon and his four whatever four or five years he had what one really good season alongside A._D.. In the early years but point being that sort of where the idea started but then it's like you focus on in the state of the League now and how wide open it is the league changed this summer for really the fourth time this decade changed when Lebron formed the heels with Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh and then you had a bunch of teams trying to form super teams that changed in twenty fourteen when the warriors landed on their death lineup with dream on at the five with staff and Clay Igwe doll and Barnes and team started trying to go smaller teams started trying to play faster and the shooting revolution increase even more it changed in two thousand sixteen when Katie replaced Harrison Barnes and went to the warriors and form that Juggernaut and it changed this summer would this wide open league and so that sort of raises says the question well and what way is it GonNa Change like Howard teams going to respond to me the clear answer in just a barrier from the ringer wrote about this a couple of weeks back. Is You had a lot of teams with good big men on contenders at but the team with the best big man and the best teammate by side and Lebron James is the Lakers so are we going to enter a stage here with the Lakers are going to be that team like the warriors the warriors once forced teams to play smaller and faster faster with more spacing and more versatility will the Lakers force teams to play big. Will you need to have a quality big man to counter Anthony Davis and possibly if demarcus cousins gets back to even seventy five eighty percent of what he was before demarcus cousins because the Lakers can play big. There's other teams that can play big wool. Suddenly teams need to have size in order to contend whereas just a couple of years ago you had a play smaller and fasters that is that what's next I actually I buy that completely because <hes> I do think that if you go small day will pounded into the ground and overpower you and both of them are so malleable you know you can be big and like it's not like Anthony. Davis is going to get killed on the boards because you went big. You know that was the thing with the teams that had so much success against the warriors they would try to go big when they were small but their chance was just grab a hundred offensive rebounds and just keep on you know slow the game down and keep on trying to pound the glass and beat them in the possession game and like feels like like both Lebron and a d. If you WANNA play fast they could and if you WANNA place Logano in their advantage to and so that's the issue there's usually some sacrifice you make by going small or going big Bingo but this team has that combination of steel and size that other teams just don't because of those two freaks of Nature Yep like it's like all right Lebron's out there Gardner Point Guard one possession possession okay. He's guarding your center. The next okay players aren't interchangeable like that. They're not supposed to be and that's why those guys are so great. It usually thought when I was reading it. Is there any chance dance Andy that it's not a devastatingly great partnership that it doesn't we always look at the positive right like I mean I look and I say Jeez man and Paul George words on the wings. That's going to be amazing or you know in. There's a different circumstance maybe with hardened westbrook that would lead people to say oh this. This isn't going to work that greater. I don't think he can work this great but with these particular players it we feel will like. It's a sure thing that Lebron A._d.. That it's going to be great together is it. Is there any possibility that it's not and I only say that because we have seen sometimes in the past whether was obviously the Lakers put together that team with Nash and Howard and Kobe and it underwhelmed greatly or I hate to bring up Dwight again but the Dwight and harden thing. Do you really bring them up derailing the Grizzly okay. He's still actually on the sheet. Can you go to China. Please like just be a star. Everybody will love you. You get paid a billion dollars a year. Just do it <hes> but that didn't work in Houston right the other one you added great players or agree pyre into the mix in Boston last year it the Kyri thing and it just didn't take it didn't work right by whoever you want Kyri but it just didn't work. Is there any chance that Lebron and A._D.. On the same team is not unbelievable unbelievable. I think it's just health durability YEP. I really think that's about it. I think those to a couple people in response to the article yesterday tweeted me about how Lebron and the past hasn't had the most success with other former big men like Kevin Kevin Love and Chris Bosh and that's fair but eighties a different type of player A._D. is in his prime one of the best defensive players and all of basketball <hes> so in that sense he's better than love because he's not a defensive limitation that will not be a liability for the Lakers on that end of the floor in fact I would go as far to say that the Lakers could have quite a good defense if even if you look at the Pelicans last couple years with eighty on the floor they had the number thirteen overall defense and twenty seventeen but they were the fifth best eighty on the floor and twenty sixteen they were ninth overall but they were third-best with eighty on the floor so eighties presence alone will give them an enforcer on the defensive end alongside some of their other positives that they have have like a Danny Green <hes> like an avery Bradley who's a good point guard defender Like Casey P. WHO's a solid offender? They have enough weapons on defense to be solid so in that sense. The fit works all right defense about this. Do you think yet you think Davis Davis leads a team in shot attempts. Do you think Davis is the guy that gets the ball when they're down by one with ten seconds ago sometimes sometimes no and that that's the benefit here and that's where I think these guys can work in tandem with each other eighty is a better pick and roll player than Chris. Bosh was on the role. He's a better better roller than Kevin. Love was and Kevin Love is a better shooter. Chris Bosh eventually became a three point shooter and the later years would that trio <hes> but early on he was more of a mid range shooter as so eighty comes and ready to shoot threes at at least an average level for his position and he is one of the best most dominant most threatening scariest ruining players in all of basketball who is also so just filthy offensive rebounder smart Qatar a guy who was so much on the floor a guy who hails the ball like a guard or a wing who who is improved as a passer as well this past season with New Orleans. He's a do it all player and if it feels. So silly to say this but I really A._D.. Has Sort of been underrated after this past season in a sense because we've forgotten how great he is his peak and similar to how with Colli Leonard last year when he played only nine in games with the Spurs we sort of distorted our view of what he was. I say we the collectively not everybody but after playing nine games the concern with Kawai was can he stay healthy <hes> but with that concern I think we also sort of I forgot what he was at his peak with San Antonio and that lasts playoff run before unfortunately Zaza Petrolia ended things for them and for him <hes> and for eighty is similar thing as sort of happened where this is a guy who in the twenty seventeen eighteen in season was arguably the best player in the league he wasn't but he was in that conversation. He's one of the six or seven guys that you can make a case is arguably the best player in the League or can become the best player in the league this coming season and the Lakers have two of them with lady and Lebron and they perfect co exist on the offense that under the floor because of the bronze playmaking ability because because it was versatile scoring ability and with eighties versatile abilities either as a screener or is a guy that can bring the ball up for you as a guy who can handle the ball both of these guys neither do it all players who call them at each other but eighty is also an enforced on the defensive end and that's going to help really bring the Lakers to another level where there's no limitation with what these guys can do together. The only real concern is health and the supporting cast of course needs to step up. You need coups to become a better more consistent spot up shooter. You Need Danny Green at his age. Not The fall off a cliff. You Need Avery Bradley to stay healthy after he's had some injury concerns last couple of years jared Dudley is old he solid but he's old. Do you need demarcus cousins to to get better than he was <hes> for the duration of his time with the warriors you Nelson enough to stay healthy. There's questions about this team but the point is the upside of this team is significant enough that they could dictate what other teams do building their rosters in there so the potentially so good they can dictate what other coaches are doing with lineups. They put on the floor. The upside is there for that does not mean we'll reach it but the possibility is there that eighty and the Bron James are a league changing duo. It only happens if they win the title but that's certainly on the table <hes> did they could win the title and then you would see them. Be An agent for change but that's that's what forces it. I mean that's forced it with the warriors. You GotTa Win huge. You know whoever wins that's what ends up in many cases getting <hes> attempted to be replicated or certainly teams. Look at it at that team with that's the team we've got to beat but they gotta get the first one you know they gotta win fertile and then everybody says okay that's the team. We have to get past because you truly have to be the team that everybody feels like they've gotta get past and there's just so many frigging good teams now that you've really got to distinguish yourself I don't you I mean we know the warriors thing was aided by a real incredible rarity with the cap going up the exact time that durant available like that should have never been able to happen but it did it for the rest of the League to look at it and say all right. We know we've got to beat the warriors like that's a team. We're going to have to beat and so you gotTa Win I but if they do yes I agree with you. That teams will then like they do with others James Things with them in mind a couple other quick things before we get out of here today Tim Duncan back on the sideline back. He's back baby well. I mean here's what you know who knows how long pops going to be on that sideline but he's got this group of people eat miyoko <hes> Becky Hammon all manner of people like these long term people that have been around the Spurs burs in that quote culture as it were for so long and so I do think it is a benefit to have as it was for so many years to have tim don't get around and just you know when you walk through those halls and you see those trophies and whatever else like there is somebody there but sides Gregg Popovich. It could say this is the way we do things here like either get with the program or don't but this is this is the standard. This is the way we do things at the Spurs. The Spurs have pulled that off for years and years. You know that this is just the way it is the same way that Patriots guys can listen to bill belichick but having their quarterback be there for ever and be the guy in the locker room saying you know this is the way we do it here. This is what's expected here and it ain't like every other place you've been. I do think that there is forget the basketball instruction side of it just having somebody there that is the you know standard bearer mayor of this culture that we have always talked about with the Spurs. I mean it clearly helpful. You know it's also just going to be flat out cool. Let's see Tim Duncan sitting on the sideline and a suit every single single night excited. I'm just excited to see him out there man. He's not going to be playing but the fact is that. This is probably the best player to ever be an assistant coach ever right. Patrick Ewing is about the only other one Jason Kidd now the Lakers assistant coach most great players become head coaches immediately like Larry Bird like Magic Johnson. It's very rare to see an incredible player like this. I top fifty all time guy become an assistant ferguson hum dot all right yeah you wing certainly fits that bill a new does not much now trying to think off the top of my head of guys that I have seen yet even you meant. Did you mention Maceio A._O.. Maceio kind of walked into the job brick hill and assistant before I don't think so I think he was yeah so I head coach I yeah I like most guys. Don't become assistance. I Yeah I mean Isaiah Isaiah. Thomas was never an assistant. He's obviously a great N._B._A.. Player so Mikhail for what it's worth he was vice president of basketball operations in the wolves for an office and then became the head coach and that was back in Oh eight with timber we're all after Whitman was fired so not an assistant but an executive but a great great player that then was in assistant coach Rasheed Wallace again. He's not the level of Dunkin but he is been. He's in an assistant. I mean I'm sure there's names that we are forgetting especially with some greater players of yesteryear but even like the recent ones like you know. There's always these guys that we say oh that guy's going to be a head coach one day. You're probably ably right that most of them do just go into the job rather than be an assistant coach assistant coaches man. I have immense respect for those guys. Those guys work their asses off. All all the time like that is not an easy job at all and so most N._B._A.. Guys they don't WanNa do that. You know don't WanNa do you know like they. They've seen with those guys. Do they see the hours they put in. They seen the amount of hours they have to spend on laptops stops cutting up film and doing preps for the Games and all that kind of stuff like that unless you really love it I mean you gotTa love it. I think you'd probably write them. I think that is one of those where you can say it off the cuff but even so we'll check out because seriously how many players N._B._A.. History can we name better than Tim Duncan and then we just gotTa go down that list so that's what if it wasn't one of the five guys we better career the dim Dunkin slim pickens out there and that's what made the press released by the Spurs so especially funny they dot mention any of his accomplishments at all they just said Duncan and nineteen ninety-seven wake forest graduate played one thousand nine seasons before retiring in the summer of two thousand sixteen team and they also had him listed after we'll hardy in the press release. He was listed second second. I there are times where I see that and I wonder if they're laughing when they do that. Well you know Popovich was the quote the quote others are listening Dan here it or read about it. Popovich said in the press release quote. It is only fitting that after I served loyalty for nineteen years as Tim Dunkin's assistant he returns the favor at least he was funny about it so great. It's awesome last other Tidbit Zion Williamson this shoe decision has been made and he signed with Jordan brand which there's a guy going to Jordan brand but look I cannot remember I mean maybe I'm not kidding since Lebron in terms of sought after shoe free agent that somebody would go and open up the vault four and in terms of not been disclosed yet but this has got to be just a absolutely absurd rose with adidas at the time was enormous like the deal he got from Adidas was huge huge but my dear friend Sunday Carro he told me even a year ago that he thought desire on one could could really break the bank and break records and that he would get so I mean I suppose at some point. We'll probably hear what he got <unk> but this was going to be the war of all wars and Jordan brand wins. He's going to be wearing the shoes and representing that brand of clearly a huge win for Michael Jordan who can at least be happy about that while he watches the Hornets what one other note speaking of Jordan <hes> there was a report just before we started our podcast today that the N._B._A.. At the owners meeting earlier this month Michael Jordan was one of the people outspoken about a little bit of tampering that had occurred and and Zach Lowe and Brian windhorst reported that the N._B._A.. Open investigation into how free agency operative the summer possibly to you figure out how much tampering may have occurred how many deals were agreed to ahead of time but more or less howdy address this moving forward. That's what Jordan all the owners discuss earlier this month so that'll be something that it will find out more coming weeks or coming months thank you. I'm interested in these findings because I have always been fascinated with how people agree to everything within one second after the deadline and what does that mean <music>. How does that happen within one second of the deadline? We have a stream of Adrian wards in Ascii and I'm like wow you wanna talk about quick work within thirty seconds. They negotiated an entire deal. I mean what are we talking about. They know they know that everybody has negotiated everything before their goofy deadline. It's just yeah. Are you really going to do something to enforce it like really you're gonNA make everybody buddy play dumb or you know what about this. How about just tell Woge to do it a day later? Hey you know that news. You're going to break to do it twenty four hours from now so it doesn't look like everybody's been negotiating for the last month. I mean if waits a day then then already ambition comes in your news so as I as I mentioned I am in Memphis this week <hes> big golf tournament going on our ringer <unk> Buddy Jo House has been with me throughout the week and has been chronicling everything that has been going on <hes> between golf and he's in here in conjunction with Calloway the an in town and then the golf tournaments going on you have gone back to Massachusetts and I know that since you did the dunk on cancer charity that started during the N._B._A.. Playoffs and spoke very openly about your father and everything going on that many people have been interested interested in updates on dad and how everything's going. I know you have been going back there very frequently to visit and so wanNA give us an update yeah sure <hes> you know it's funny. You mentioned Gosh that <hes> people are interested. I had somebody last week or the week before to say to me. How's Your Dad's doing didn't even say it was pretty cool? Yeah so I mean I've appreciated initiated a all the the thoughtful <hes> comments and questions and the fact is like it was amazing to see so many people donate and share their positive thoughts and everything about the dunk on cancer raising seventy five K. was pretty dope. I don't know my dad my dad's doing okay. He had a procedure this week. He's doing fine I think we do. We're collectively doing well considering myself my dad and my mom my mom who's been a superhero through this whole thing for shore. Yeah what we're doing pretty good. It's it's good to be back here the next a couple of weeks or months or whatever it is <hes> to hang out with my family for awhile missing L._A.. For shore and hoping to be in L._A.. For plenty of Lakers clippers action the season but it's good to be back in Massachusetts for a little bit with my family and and see my friends as well. We'll send our wishes from everybody to your father and know that we are still rooting on and everybody's like super interested right because now yo you created a scenario where everybody's got stock doc in this. You know what I'm saying like it. Your story became the story of so many of us that have gone through this with loved ones and so there's so many people that relate and know what it's like and so to see you and through the courage and everything and her mom and everything through through the through this which is not what anybody wishes for anybody and then your dad power and through and keeping a great attitude and smiling all along the way it's good and it's great for everybody to see and that's why you've created this. I you know situation where people are so interested and they WANNA know. Hey everything going. Okay definitely you know. I think you might have talked about this before. Whenever the story went up a couple months ago but I think for me it's like all the love that has been shown to me he and my family I think that should be the default setting with people they meet it has everybody's going through something in some form or another and that was the thing that was most mind-blowing to me through the story era with dot com cancers the amount of people who like or just opening opening up being vulnerable about their family situation whether it had to do with cancer relationship with a parent it's like every person does go through something at some point in their lives so I hope that love and transparency you know not the sound too much like a hippie sometimes like love others and be kind genuine with others? I think just as some have been with me to that with others as well because that's been <hes> that's been most powerful abolish just to feel about love so feels good feels good to love fantastic like message to say the Least Kevin it's always fun and I will catch up with you next week and I love you to crystal Ori for you as well. Thanks for listening to another ringer M._B._A.. Show he did what you're.

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NBA London: Knicks v Wizards

Head In The Game

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

NBA London: Knicks v Wizards

"Why have you have you highlighted, thanks? So I can see where I start speaking. And you start speaking just wear glasses. You can see I have classes. I want to see me with them on trying to keep up. It's going to see it was a podcast. It's voices. They see you you ruin the whole beginning. I'm not even in his in his own. Now, I'm not in the can you start reading the bits, which aren't highlighted. And then we'll get to my those are going to highlight it yours highlighted. Yeah. So I know what I'm supposed to be reading. This is the beginning of podcast. You know, everyone's going to be switch off start speaking case. He. ESPN head in the game. This is having the game you'll crush course or one of the weeks major sporting events. My name is Jamie laying in every single week. I'll be joined by feast of guests all of whom no more than I do about sport alongside V and pretty much just as clueless is actor comedian and writer, Alex lone. Hello, there are she Jim you'll find do know a little bit more about sports than you probably realize research and rinsed did you know, this one the average British man watches over twenty thousand hours of sports in their lifetime from the comfort of their own sofa. Can I you this you you pretend that you had a lot of like literally to you had one you had don't go this one. You look straight on it. There was one on your have you done presumably, you get someone to watch sport for you from the comfort of your shades law. Incidently your surname Lang I thought it was Lang Lang Lang Lang Lang very simple thing to everyone. I'm working with. Jamie Lang off of the Essex program. No, it's Lang can I call. You can go you lane and Slade anyway, maybe we'll go back to that a little bit later as it's time to stock into the main event now this week. Okay. We're all about basketball with the NBA showdown between the New York Knicks and the Washington Wizards at the to this coming Thursday. Now, it's the ninth NBA games. He played in London is a complete tour sell out basketball. Yes. Basketball a fulsome. What we do baseball baseball. It's basketball. Okay. Look anyway lately, you've got nothing for about. Okay. Because we've lined up loads and loads of people who know all about the wizards and the Knicks game this Thursday and who bets to get the ball into court than ESPN's in vaguely up next. Please leave a message, and I'll call you just gonna leave voice. Hello, Mr. Ian, vaguely, this is Jamie, Lanc speaking from ESPN's podcast had in the game. You probably know mill really from made in Chelsea bake off won a BAFTA. My co host is here. Alex low, you probably know him too. We are recording podcast ESPN podcast which took about basketball today. We're talking about the Washington Wizards and the New York Knicks is heading the game. We're trying to get you on the line to ask you few questions. But it seems like you voicemails us, which I don't if you source ringing. But hey, listen me in an sitting here hanging out. So give us a cool back when you can. Okay. Well, speak to you soon. Bye. But the thing I was gonna say in a couple of questions. Now, we know that the new mix K they've been performing badly him. Let me be as you wanna be. Okay. Hobo in. Well, listen, I got a couple of questions. I hello. Hello. Hello. Hi in. Yes. Hi in. Thank you so much for calling us back. Did you get my voicemail? I just saw the missed call. I'm sorry about that. I didn't recognize the number. That's okay. We'll listen to the voice mail later. It's I in you are on the line for head in the game podcast. I'm with my co host Alex Lowe Hello that. How are you buddy? Things are. Well, how are you guys? Whereabouts. All you in America right now I've seen here in America. Yes. I'm in New York, New York. I love New York love it. We go to couple of questions for you. Because you're the expert in basketball, you ready them. Okay. 'cause we're talking about we got a big game coming to the UK, the Washington Wizards. Visit the New York Knicks, of course. Yeah. Playing the ode to baby with very excited. Mike Ojos didn't realize that the Washington Wizards were from Washington. Yes. Indeed. They are capital. They're gonna win on the one the last two three games against the next that be correct. They are the better team. However, they are in a bit of disarray. There were reports that there was some infighting during a recent practice with the wizards and guys just aren't getting along right now. One of the top teams right now, we'll go state is heading shoulders above everyone. And then, you know, you're. Look at the Eastern Conference. Toronto is a very good team. Philadelphia should be a very good team in Milwaukee has played very well. But you know, everyone is looking up at the champs at Golden State, and everyone kind of soums that they're going to be winning another championship comes you. Why do we think that the Knicks on quite the potent force? They used to be what's happened there. It's been a series of mismanagement with the roster decisions. Phil Jackson was here and was the team president for three plus seasons and the Knicks really struggled during that time. Go I who coached the Lakers coach the Lakers, correct? That killing a naive question. But when you said about, you know, maybe the spirit in the camp in the Washington Wizards isn't quite what should be. I'm always intrigued when sportsmen say that and they said what what effect will certain outside influence have on the actual playing of the game. Do you think that does have an effect the spirit isn't good or lease a kind of top athletes? Surely, they did it paid a lot of money just get down and get on with it. You know, I think the frustration stems from the losing in the idea that we're not playing as well as they should be. So it's kind of a chicken and egg Afaq who do you support who do you root for your since that cover the Knicks Nixon? I cover the league. I don't have a strong rooting interest one way or the other. I just root for good stories. That is the most politically, correct. Also I've ever heard. He root for good stories the same as me buddy root for kids story. Listen, stay with us. Mom, because I think you're going to be fascinated by our history of basketball in forty five seconds basketball was invented by James Naismith of Massachusetts native Ninety-one to keep young athletes fit during the cold winter months. The rules were simple throw the ball into a fruit. Basket nailed to the gymnasium war every time appointments scored the game would stop while. The genetic climbed a ladder to retrieve the ball in one thousand nine hundred six the baskets were replaced with metal hoops the Basketball Association of America will be a was formed in nineteen forty six becoming the NBA three years later. The American Basketball Association was founded in nineteen sixty seven amending the NBA rules to make the game more exciting, including the introduction of three point route shooting from distance earn more points and playing with the red white and blue bull ABA an MBA merge. Ninety six retaining three point Roman losing the. Definitely said baseball though, I didn't. Well did. You'll put it history of basketball nicely potted for you nicely. Potted? I love the word potted. It's love is more of a Snooka term which will be coming to zoom, lean some future episodes. If I saw you walking down the street. I would say that guy likes nuke. Because you remind me slightly of the guy with the big glasses. He plays Snooka. Dennis taylor. Wag my finger light you. That's what he did. Right now, we're going to look at who supports these teams because there's a famous paces who support the Knicks Ben Stiller. Yes. Or no him him. We got Kate Upton and she did the Dougie. Yes. She did the Dougie, you know, not no wiser than what that is. Teach me out at dougy teach me. Spike, Lee Alicia Keys, Chris rock, Jerry Seinfeld. Him Katie home. I know her basically there's loads and for the wizards WALE. Sorry. Wale the rapper. Oh, yeah. Well, the done. Yeah. He did a did a with them lady gonna go. So does this mean that you'll you'll rooting for the wizards? That's right. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm rooting for the Knicks. We still there. Yes, sir. So he buddy you wrote a piece about very despondent fan in you. Yes. And Nick fan. Yes. So he's sold is fan hood on EBay put it up for auction and someone actually bid on the fan hood and forced him to become a Laker fan. A you saying manhood all fan hood fan hood, he sold his manhood. Fan. Manhood was not up for. They didn't go onto the Habur. Sounds nasty. Alex contingencies to try to sell his manhood on what to hear about that could get the question when you sell your fan would what does that actually entail your season ticket or what he did was he sold his allegiance someone actually paid thirty four hundred dollars purchase the fans fan hood and to force him to root for the Lakers. Oh, my Lord. Hey in we want to give a big shout. Thank you so much. Thanks. Thanks for being on the line. Thanks in Begbie from ESPN U S. Thank you so much. And we appreciate at my pleasure. Pose take care. Bye. Hey, alex. Yeah. What do you think? Worse. If you some these which teams that you like or doing that, man. Who joked we thank you? Wasn't a manager. I think he hated you more than eighteen Jeanine. He really hated you that he did know whenever you spoke to me, those an uplift and. When he spent us. Oh, hey, the weary way he answered that manager. This whole podcast is about the New York. Knicks versus the Washington Wizards at the oa-to, you are now a supporter of the Washington Wizards very much, so and I myself very happy to where the Knicks here. Okay. 'cause I'm going to be a hardcore fan, and I think that we actually need to speak to the real fans out there. Yeah. Okay. But what how did we get hold of these fans? We're very clever here in the podcast. Yes. We have a fan on the line right now. Mic Whitfield, Nick Whitfield either as a Knicks fan. Are you there, Nick? Hello. Hey. Hey, y'all British here. I am yet. Nick. I love the back. Do you say that every single time? Someone says here I am. Yeah. I do that as well, Jamie. They're here. I am. Make how are you big Knicks fan? Yes. I think it's safe to say you won't find a bigger Knicks phone in the UK than me really changed by deed Poulton here. Yes is an actual rule of support forced by law to change your name. Nick, we need to find out a cave. We need ask a couple of things because you help us out here. Your I definitely could Nick. That's right. No, cutting edge of the full name of the team is the knickebocker. So at least I escapes with that as my name. So there is that that the nerdier thing I've ever heard anyone say that is insane. Boy, they call the knickerbockers, it's New York related beyond that you'd have to go into New York trivia beyond that a knickebocker is sort of milk shaky drain originally before. So if I'm just stepping in before that they would have been a sort of Carta of panty thing that presumably it's named after the shorts. They wear isn't that right, Nick. Yes, I believe that is exactly the first place. They you know, very much. I was trying to avoid using the phrase pansy person Alex gets very excited when he talks about knickebocker. Yes. All excited why the Knicks so in the early to mid nineties when I kind of I discovered people everything was about, Michael, Jordan and the Chicago booze. And so I started watching those guys, and they didn't really capture my imagination that the guys who did with the Knicks who I'd watch them play and as an arsenal fan. Something resonated with the way the next plate at that time period. It was kind of really physical defending that kind of -bility to neutralize more talented players. It's actually something that resonated with me as a player as well. Never the most naturally towns player, but they kind of made up for it with that kind of hard work and spirit. Let's reddening. Okay. So you got into that way. Now, how many games have you actually been to have you been to quite a few of them for the Knicks in particular have been so maybe seven eight in person who's your favorite player all time. It's a toss up between Pat. Patrick Ewing and John Starks. Patrick Ewing holds pretty much every single record for the Knicks as an individual player, John stocks. As a crazy unlikely underdog story that's worth looking up right now. Kristaps Porzingis is the guy for the next he's out injured currently, but he's the kind of top guy for the next right now in the case of this the on the seventeenth of January, which of those guys I mean when he it was injured the other is going to be playing. I mean, those the people that everyone should look out for the two guys should be looking out for Tim Hardaway who's having an unbelievable season. So far his ability to shoot the ball is absolutely amazing guy, Trey Burke, who's really coming to life is point in the season. Really amazing bull. Handler incredible speed in his cancer rebounds, vol- incredibly well. There's a lotta guys who are going to be entertaining the crowds in London. What about the chance and shouts? And in UK. We have the wherever you may be. We are the famous. EMC? See have see and what foot and Nick what is the Sean of the New York Knicks. So I think the most iconic is. I just wanted to. I don't I don't wanna t- up. I just want you to go. See I want you to go straight into a man, I'm gonna here we go mic. Whitfield one is the New York. Knicks John D I d I. Words. It's quite repetitive. Jesus. It does what it says on the ten. Defense defense should be open. I mean who cheers for a solid defense. Uley your cheering mix scored against. That's why. Offense yet for toes. Please defense is that right? That's the side of the ball. You have to work hard on. So I think that's where the offense aside is the glamour side, you really cheer for the hard working side of the ball, Nick. And just just a personal question. What do you look like I just wanna get a vision of you right now. I wanna get flu is blown. What is it quite a surreal turn to this podcast? I have Brown. Head blue is six foot tool. I've well she want from you sound gorgeous. Thank you very much. Appreciate hey, Mr. Whitfield, Nick. Thank you so much. Good luck to the New York Knicks when they come here you have been comeback. We enjoyed having you on the show on look to. Thank you guys. Thanks to us superfan. Nick whitfield. Thanks, buddy. The game. Loud. Also thinking about Knicks lovely hair Brown blue eyes in rope. Hi, hi. Is that can't Christian? It is. How are you can tell you buddy you on ESPN's head in the game? And we're talking about fossil. And I'm here with my co host Alex Lowe, high can't and this is Jamie lane. You probably know me already from lots of TV shows. Right. Of course up nine not. Hey, listen. We've we shouldn't the podcast. I'm very excited because the Washington Wizards and the Neo mix coming to the Oto January the seventeenth, and we thought you, okay? We being head of events of the MBA, which sounds incredibly important. We thought we'd ask you a few questions and pick your brain. And find out a little bit more about the event that Louis I'm actually in DC right now of meeting with the wizards all week. So they're very. That's Alexis favorite team. That's my team for this game, especially good here. Is it true that the event sold out in eleven minutes, which is six minutes faster than last time. There was a big match over here. I mean, the reality of itself out entertainers leave the technology allows it to sort of process it's somewhere between ten and fifteen minutes, but we're very thankful for our fans from across the region. How many hold the to how many fans you expecting? We have just rating thousand which is coca Cassidy for event in the round the the beautiful. Oh to this is the thing, then listen, their popularity in UK's growing with all these sports games, boss. When things I've that why why is it just logistically is it hard to kind of do UAE. I see why is there an all time high in the second whiting just do more games in the U K if it spreads the awareness. I mean, the popular has been growing you on your I've been fortunate to be in the UK office now for eleven years. And at the game. It certainly the pinnacle for us has always gotten notoriety in media that probably deserves folks like yourselves doing things like this is really going to help. But attention question. I mean, it's games are logistically challenging cross our season is extremely packed. And and the reality is when when a team travels anywhere outside the US for a game. But besides our friends in Toronto that basically takes them out of of a week of schedule that which is tricky to sort of make that up in different places so tired, right. Yeah. Tires between the travel, and and making competitively balance and whatnot days off and not having you know back to backs and different things. There's a number of different scheduling challenge that we face where stream excited with the game that we have to grow in that in the future. It's very interesting when you said that it's sort of catching on, and it's a mystery to me why it's not a massive sport of it. Because it's so exciting end to end stuff if for anyone who's sort of thinking of going to see a boss will match does know anything about it. Can you give a flavor of what it's like? I mean, the razzmatazz the excitement. Well, how would you advertise for me taking London game aside for quick second? The sport itself is easy to play both boys and girls play it played around the world. It did easy thing for you can play by yourself by with you friend and mates. It's it's an easy thing to pick up. And then that just translates for the NBA games. You guys did a great or ESPN degrade interview with our food front. Antone grease men who who probably ended up bass, it's just sort of everything it's the show. It's the competition. It's the end the end action. But at the same time, it's just the overall top level of of any sport is is great to watch right in the NBA's very fortunate. It that you know, we're sort of different football where in any given year. You good argues Premier League bed. Melita Buddha's Lita the best Nassau players the world play in the NBA. And there's no debate to that. So we're very lucky in that regard. We have the courtside is literally fund of like spotting celebrities and things that is not part of my responsibility. And it's probably one of the more fun aspects of my job is it stuffing out who the to the true fans are because very much you don't want our authentic fans. And you know, we recognize that you know, basketball means a lot a lot of people. But we need we need to make it authentic. And we need our Archer vans. Who are representing you need your fans in the front in the front row who celebrities and things that I know. So the wizards, right? You need them in the front. They're supporting that team all the way, right? Sort of the one of the unique sort of aspects of him. Yeah. It always has been for me growing up in the Lakers and Celtics Donald when you had all there is less than in the Lakers Showtime and just continues to through today. One of you'll base new mix. Fans you're out. She's speaking to you right now and happens to be a celebrity free genuine free seventy the Jenry. Perhaps I should take one of those seats that are available. I did Polcice for you. And they're totally I have this really good seats upstairs. Really give you the true fan. Experience up some. Yeah, we're with some great food and be able to see everything birds AVI round the back, Alex. That's when the books likes you never been in a box before it's the best seat in Ken tell you something can't. Kent user, I think I love you. He just wouldn't be the bit. I actually mean it, but who is going to be down there at the front. I mean, the top British celebrities Peter on all the top ones. Are they going to be at the front, and can we join them or we just have to stay up in the boats with an allina Blair's will make sure that you get there when you need to. But we'll have a good mix. I'm confident that the Premier League will be well represented as we'll have some friends coming from Madrid in Barcelona's and can also Alex was a little bit embarrassed office. But I'm just gonna ask you go on. Then can you buy oversized American food and drink only wants to know it wouldn't be in India game without it. Right. Love that by tastic. Can thank you so much. We're gonna leave it there. But thank you so much. We can't wait. Thank you to be at the game. You thank you for joining head in the game. Hey, dude, as I said, you're the best. We'll talk to you guys soon. Thank you. Bye. Gained to the NBA game in the box. Isn't that? Great. Can you just next time? Next time, we get a lovely gentleman. Like that on the phone don't say, oh, you gonna the bones on if you just you like to get. The person that I gave you a present. You just. No, I am very very grateful. But I want to be down there right up close to the chill to the game to the game. I wanna see it. Oh, that's all. I want to tell me right down there. Where the action it give you the keillor's. You're going to be out there in the books. Yeah. You'll be fine. He just don't wanna be down that dresses a wizard in the ball. Great. Okay. No earlier we spoke with mixed on Nick Whitfield, Alex to him. I do remember in very well. I love the next fans. But here it head in the game, we fill it wouldn't be bad. Only. Just let the New York. Knicks fans had their say, no, sir. No, no, no, no on the line with us. Now is Rebecca win catch. She is a huge dully. Haunt was advan. Rebecca. Hi, how are you below? Hey, Rebecca, your huge wizards fan on you. Of course, I am. Of course, how many years is that like since you were a kid say Szekely all my whole life. I like to think I'm the biggest fan. But that might be because I'm biased. Oh, no, quite Siam. The second-biggest wizards fan the second since since when. The country. Heard of. Well, there's you me and while the third biggest van the rapid cooled Weil. No. Happy is that silence. When that happened. Yeah. But also the problem is being a wizard fan. It's a bit annoying. Because apparently they haven't been the most successful team in current years. It's very stressful. The wizards have won championship they won in nineteen seventy eight which was far before I was born. Basically, the my whole fandom has not been so amazing with the wizards performance. But I with my father over the team because he grew up wizards fan, we watch it together. So the good old times they won the won once. One the seventies. That is exactly it. He tells me about the better days. But also the Campos having one of if not the greatest possible player route time the locker room, right? Michael Jordan, isn't that? Right. They had Michael Jordan played for them. Yes. They did have Michael Jordan play for them. He came out of retirement to play for the wizards, which was depressing. He claims it was for the love of the game. But you know, you never know he was thirty eight when he came back to my basketball game. That's pretty old to play boss. Wasn't it? Yeah. I mean, most players don't make it past thirty three thirty four thirty five thirty eight is really old. But with the wizards even though he was playing on a bad team. A lot of sports reporters still considered him a top ten player even with coming out of retirement and not playing in a while. So he was of course, you know, he's a legend Rebecca, this is low here. On the edge was can I ask you this? Did you see you saw him playing? Did you when he came back thirty eight? Yes. I did. I was about eight or nine years old. And I did see a couple of his games. And I don't remember too much. But I mean, it was it's great to be able to say that you saw Michael Jordan plan. Now, tell me this. Why do the wizards usually beat the Knicks? We have something called a bogey team. Is that something that exists there that idea that you got the one team that you're always unlucky against? Oh, yes. The wizards recently have been unlucky verse a lot of teams. So we have a lot of bogey teams. I think it's just because the Knicks. They have not been very good since two thousand fourteen they haven't made the playoffs in four years. So it's because you know, our back core is pretty solid. Our starters are pretty solid. We have mic on told us the amazing mix John's. Want is a K? What is the wizards rep? Well, we do not have a specific chant. But I think the one that's most popular at the game is whenever somebody makes a three point shot, the announcer will yell DC three, and we all will put our fingers up with three fingers today side, I feel like we should says ran this now. Okay. This is great. So you have to say, so I go three pointer day c three butchers three three up. Say literally, I hope you are take your word for it. Do you want to hear the mix jumped? Superfan. Nick shula. This was the current chance to beat old chance. Can we play? I'm going to play in. Here. We go. E D embarrassing all my God horrible. He Rebecca team does that why what is that so special, you know, every fan screams defense when the donations remotely get pressing that buffet? Terrible show the woods, right? Can just go. Deal with every single day. Six. Rebecca. Hey, listen. Thank you so much. You're gonna come through Alex. Please gosh, this is going to be my nightmares tonight. Juno. What Rebecca what you you should pitch to the wizards? You should say no defense, but you should everyone. Who's was his stand up and shout you shown Hough? The whole someone's joke on the first one to make that Jake. Oeser back. A you're gonna come to the game. I'm working on it. I believe I will be there. So oh. Will you go to come and have a do what do you do before? Boss. Would you have picnics that's going to have a picnic in the call Paul tailgate tailgate Yang you cool? It toga. We call a picnic. Okay. Yeah. I would love to have a picnic. That's amazing fantastic. We'll see their we've tickets. I don't know where your tickets. Bouncer up near the space station somewhere. So we go quite a good view. He's trying to brag folks we've been given a ball. Yet. My can't stope attending. You know? Kent we never met none of the books somewhere out in Kent. We've never met this guy. Go we spoke to on the podcast, and he invited to his box sounds all. But we're going to do it. We got way we can't white doing to go to the Bach books record. Hey, thank you so much coming on head in the game. Hey, I'm going to see the game on. Of course, you are. We're going to have a picnic, and we're going to get that win for DC dot is just let me know, Scott check, okay, or egging cress sandwich, which one. The second one. Chris Rebecca, I listen to the game. Thank you so much for coming Becca. All right. Thanks. Bye. Rebecca, goodbye, div div alloy advi. Okay. So what have we learned this week? I think it's time for a quick fire quiz. Yes. It's the head in the game quiz alexan-, Jamie. Are you ready? The Knicks versus the wizards. Yes. Barring on here, we go round one true, false true. It is definitely round one link. Seventy eight NBA star Clifford Ray saved a dolphins. Life by retrieving. A screw the Delvin swallowed true true. It is true question to Michael Jordan sang on the backing vocals for Mariah Carey's. All I want for Christmas, folks. Don't coping what I'm thinking. Yes. Correct. Again, Moi's question. Three basketball was inspired by nineteenth century children's game called duck on a rock. All I know this one folks I was gonna false as well. And it is true. How tally be now. Let's get on with this round to basketball plan. All who'd lem number one by Jones true. Yes. I'd say Boston hoodlum sorry possible plan. Enjoyed an eleven year career with the NBA to flip up. Milano heard Lim dos will play. From any crime family in the nineteen eighty s three meta will piece I'd say that is a player who'd lem play. From NBA star currently on Trump or now number Foale spandex clan. Just call them. That's that's a medical condition. Possible player. No, I made it. Our final round three terminology round. Which of these is not I repeat not basketball jogging. We go. We cut the dip bump the content found the counter, I reckon Vicomte, no copy pump the cutter wrong. No. You're right. Question to Brown line. Ronnie shots own Nellie bowl. I think granny shelties not. Yes. Same. No. It's Brown line. What finally number three double nickel drummer dime? Heavy dollar heavy donors know drop dime. And Alex is. What's the win? Defense. Very good. The win out with five thousand six hundred seventy three points as Jamie. Has nine points, graduations. Thank you. So that's why we have time pool this week. Thanks to ESPN's very own in Begley from New York for his expert insights NBA's Christian superfan. Nick whitfield. Also, Rebecca come on the wizards defense. And if you haven't got caught side seats for the game. Are you can't watch highlights of this game on the ESPN app? Join us next week what would be getting up close and personal with another sporting event until then keep your head in the game. See what you did that keep you hidden the gays. ESPN head in the game d- d funds. Steve defense.

New York Knicks wizards basketball NBA Washington Wizards New York Nick Whitfield Chris Rebecca Alex UK ESPN Michael Jordan Jamie Lakers ESPN London Nick Alex Lowe Lang Lang Lang Lang Lang baseball
Admiral Schofield, Wizards Rookie -- Full Interview 12/19

Big Time Basketball

11:49 min | 11 months ago

Admiral Schofield, Wizards Rookie -- Full Interview 12/19

"The Bells the podcast. Let's bring in one of our guys to talk to you. And that is Admiral Scofield Wizards Rookie. Who joins US now admiral? What's going on? I thought you were just just getting treatment. You everything good what's going on you know. I'm good I'm good just We traveled to the Toronto today around four so much remorse and this morning Nice just you know just knocks here and there. It was a tough loss. You guys last night obscene overtime loss the bulls. You probably thought you had that thing. One Brad hit the shot. Talk to me about you. Know what was going on through through your mind and the team's mind when you know Bonga fouls it goes to overtime. How do so how do you? How do you get yourself up for overtime in a game that you thought that you guys have probably one regulation hard to do? I think the biggest thing is You know in those situations situations you know being more obvious with us. And not you know showing US showing the reps and showing everyone would not sal showing a hand also just communicate and there's a lot of things could've done better but at the end of the day you know in those situations you never wanna put The decision and the rest chance Late May game like that. So you know that's on us and we know that but you know the way we played last night is something that we're trying to trying to wars as being This season insanely working on just setting a standard of how we play hard and you know play together. Yeah tough plot but I. I've said this before you guys are a fun team to watch score a lot of points you kind of move. The ball. Brad bills have been a great season. I saw Brad was He was a quote the other day saying he was pumped to have you back on the wizards on the main NBA team. Just because you bring that kind of energy and stuff to the floor and one of the things I've noticed admiral is that you're getting more playing time and in almost all of the Times Times. You've been on the floor. With the with the wizards you have a positive plus minus so. You're really impacting winning. When you're on the floor why do you? What do you think that you bring to this team that enables you to do that because because I know sometimes the shot isn't necessarily falling but you seem to be always in the plus plus minus Admiral which is obviously a great thing for a guy coming off the bench like you or your are too busy users is just like I said before I know I am? I'm a guy that can impact game would in different aspects and not just going to ball the shooting the ball fan and you know make plays plays just just being there being a good communicator. Helping the team bringing energy. So it's just whatever I can do the wizards lean You know what I've been doing this having a mindset of going out and being impact when I get in and trying to be positive that case board offense law so really trying to be tough on me Some of the you know better scores knows been pretty cool. You Know Garden Dead Rose One night and then having to come back and then guards living moving pretty cool. You know you drop twenty the other night and Julie Game and then you continue to play both goes and the wizards are you tired yet. Admiral like is this going to take. It's all on you and you love it so I mean I love the game you know being able to play bass wherever days is what what it's about the haves opportunity. I'm I'm blessed and I I just see it as every day is another opportunity to get better and every day is another opportunity. Better just coming in with that mindset and you know not harpen Harpin laughing yesterday or the day before Just trying to make you know new strides in new goes today Focusing on now you know the present moment Is Really helped me as far as just letting the game slow down. Also understand. We're off in. You GotTa Talk to be about Davis Batons Admiral Role He is like lighting the League on fire right now. He's shooting over forty six percent from threes making over five a game He's been one of the surprise as early as the NBA season. Just how lethal. He's has been from downtown. Jimmy Good Burton stories or just like seeing him in practice. What's it like to be with a guy like that? Who is you know? What is he six eight six nine and that good of a shooter like how impressive guys? He's very impressive You know he works at it for sure. I think the most interesting thing I've seen him do is shoot. One leg have almost Mozilla court three than just draining. I gotta say like I'm just working on balancing the shooting the ball that far it does. It's terminating for you. Really can shoot the ball honestly. You barely misses works. Our Yeah. It's wild it's he's he's such a fascinating sitting gotta see in in the. Obviously you guys are happy to have him. And he's been a big part. What you guys are doing and be one of the better offense of teams in the League so far throughout the season I wanted to ask you this. Admiral Scofield Goldfield Wizards Rookie. Who joins us now on Scallon Pals? Admiral you're playing in Memphis against the grizzlies the other night and obviously you as Tennessee vall. Where's the Memphis crowd giving it to you? Did they know you as Tennessee volunteer. Were they giving you some crap there for For your were born. They were doing me a lot We had lost earlier early that day. And they WANNA rub today so it's fine. It's fine. We'll get him next year. I thought it was going to be back intensity and compete bicycling the grizzlies. You know John Moran Ren Card you know just to get back on the floor with the wizards and being serious. Pretty Cool Talk Talk to me about John Moran how I mean. He's a guy who's probably the front runner now for for rookie of the year. Now Obviously Zion hasn't played with the injury yet but John I mean every time I watch and the ATHLETICISM lettuces jumps off the screen at you. He's just kind of like a wild man out there. And he's I think he's led this grizzlies team to up. Probably a better record than a lot of people. Thought they would. What do do you think his futures like because he has as a fellow rookie? He's doing how oppressive is that to you. I think it's very impressive. Very explosive with the ball He makes the right place and you know you can just. He's very comfortable in for a new guy. I gotta be. That shows a lot about his game person player. He can be You know just finding great Watching him play you know. Seeing them play in college. Those things of sanders growth is just amazing to see what you know hardware can do. And what holidays off. I'm just happy. Aw Yeah now he's he he's one of the more fun guys in the lead to watch. It'd be fun to see him going forward You've got you've got an off night tonight a you guys travel into Eh to Toronto to play the raptors. Are you going to try to check out Bucks Lakers tonight admiral like obviously this is what people are calling a finals preview. Do you guys team kind of watch these games or to go off on your own or are you excited. I did like. What's what's the mood for? The team for Bucks Lakers tonight Well honestly I don't know well we'll do we use other change like that unless you like to eat. Hopefully we'll get together tonight. I'll be pretty cool especially going Toronto. I've never been so it's GonNa be off Toronto Great City. You'll you'll yeah. You'll love Toronto. Although and it's probably freezing in cold there but that's all right This time of year. What's the what's the? What's the chatter in the locker room? Like you talked about you know facing the guy. John Moran you talk about basing a guy like derrick. Rose do you guys talk doc about you know what what's going on around the lead. You guys talk about the things that you've seen from Lebron the things that you've seen from Janas just how impressive these two guys are. What the what I mean is that is that just sort of locker room banter that you you guys are still amazed like almost like uh spans are when you watch these guys? Yeah I mean for example. The play Dorando Lebron the other day when Rondo places ooh and stuff like that is just so funny to see a game and you you know those moments those are like Picco being formed. That's where you vessel vessel. which at teammates and stuff like that? So there's nothing like that on the bronze. You know the Brian James Harden going for fifty four Kendrick nine. The way he's doing the South Beach. It's it's it's so many so many different stories in the NBA this season. And we don't even have Kevin durant entire erasing living. You know those guys are so like just to see the excitement around that house the Court of guys around the League. It's really a brother. Did you notice that you know everyone wants to see succeed. You know just to see what even you know their injuries got. How worried guys are you know? Just to see the relationship over the years it's pretty cold seep adding So usually usually after games or when we're not playing we were definitely support and other people. That's good to hear. Hey I saw closed down this year your Admiral Admiral Scofield Wizards Rookie for showing us now on Scallon Pals I saw you had a great tweet. The other night You said that you said what will hold only bring it up here You you didn't realized that you were in the game that you actually had a guy. You're on the wizards and you were there. I've actually true story. I've actually drafted you in a fantasy draft onto K admiral anew. I like eighty point shooting. It's all good so did you. Did you play as yourself I thought it was really were at first. 'cause I played a lot of ceaseless. You know see for me too. Yeah I'll let a feast so I play a Lotta caller duty. I don't play as much Mom of two KS. I used to when I was a little younger but I wouldn't play Takeda. They wanted to give some mental rips on on the game and their I am everyone goes. I thought it was pretty cool. I forgot that I was working. Oh the game because I haven't played it and and Honestly I don't like the way my guy plays leading the net. They they got me looking like the markets. We're on the game and my jump. Shot is not like how they have it. But it's okay it's okay you're one we'll get there yeah you will listen you know we we. What's the two K. guy at that scale knows we'll have to talk to him and get the ratings stuff is situated for you because like I imagine like you think you're a better shooter better athlete and all that stuff but That's interesting that you say that. So you think you. Can you actually learn stuff about opponents teams by playing two K.. Hey that's an actual thing were sometimes. Usually they have a same moves if they actually do. So it's pretty cool scout on one game but you know I it's talking to NBA because no guys. You're so talented and so good at what they do that you know. They're so good they just read and claim off the U Especially they're leaving so Two ks not a big advantage book as far as confidence you know it definitely helps that in that aspect space. That was the tacit. That's awesome. WHO's your by the way who's your? Who's your favorite team pizza? I've been interested in for the long Sir and I play where you've inches. And when we got Rinaldo I was just so ecstatic. Thought it was gonNA make life easier but I think this year would do a lot better Manchester United from my neck of the woods. Well was born so I I like man you a lot and then some when I wanNA guaranteed Wayne Aimar play with Liverpool. Oh yeah that's like cheating though. Come on man get down the way that's awesome. That's awesome man. Well good look to Good luck to your teams get. Lucky event is thanks for hopping on and Scowl so scalise was on a flight back from Dallas. And it's got delays so we had to miss the show today so he'll he'll join us the next and we have we. Don't talk to you before. Christmas have a great holiday Continued success and we're looking forward to catching up in the next couple of weeks. Thank you very much thanks. Thanks for listening to this scale and tells podcast watcher. Listen to scale and pals weekdays from eleven to one. PM EASTERN ON RADIO DOT COM digital network word.

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Wizards GM Tommy Sheppard

The Woj Pod

42:56 min | 1 year ago

Wizards GM Tommy Sheppard

"Hey everyone welcome into another edition of the which pod Here in Washington D._C.. With the new general manager of the Washington Wizards Tommy Shepherd. How does that sound tally? You know I'm kind of looking around Pinson myself a little bit today. You know those titles thrown around. Obviously I'm very humble. I'm very grateful but let's be honest. The only title that matters the one Toronto as and that's really where this all all starts today was a great day as we we announce ourselves and move forward to the to the N._B._A.. into the rest of the basketball world what we're all about now we gotta go output action on the words and that's what the most exciting part is. There's a lot I wanna get to with you Tommy. I WANNA I start here. Though I Bradley beal. He's eligible to sign a three year extension July twenty six three years one hundred eleven million dollars dollars you can you can offer it to him Friday and that's your plan right. I think the biggest thing is for people to understand that's out of respect to Bradley that that's the first moment we can do that and we WanNa make sure he hears it from us. Our commitment to him has never wavered and I want to say this Bradley's commitment to US never wavered. It's been fantastic just to watch him since the season was over and how he was able to help us actively recruited to make sure Thomas Bryan new hey this is the place for you for Bradley step in and the draft room and look at the players that we were looking at and weigh in on things and being able to help Mr Leone sister this entire process and all his input. You know I think he's always felt the love and this is I promise promises is an internal business transaction that we're doing with Bradley but certainly to the world. We want everyone to understand that this foundation piece Bradley beal the person that he is. I think Monday he might be in the hall of fame and still be a better person but he's very much of everything we're trying to move forward and build around would involve brand so you go in there with him now and listen he can. He's got a lot of options you can do three or do one to. He can do nothing he can become all N._B._A.. He can make all N._B._A.. Next season and be eligible for a supermax he could do a big five year two hundred fifty million dollar deal that summary could do. He's at lots of options over the next couple of years or and talking to mark Bartlestein his agent. I know you've you've talked to mark. Ted Leonsis told me that he went and spent tie with mark last week to just lay out what his vision was here and how things were going to move forward with the front office and your his ation but Bradley Beal's twenty-six. He's in the primary his career. John Wall is probably GonNa miss all the next season with the Achilles injury and it's a roster around him. That's developing roster. You've got a lot of young players. You've got some assets. You've gathered up. You've got a first round. Pick who you're excited about but for a player who wants to win and wants to know he can win in Washington you're going to you tell Brad what now well I look at what happened today and all the commitment that you have to be successful in professional sports starts with a commitment from mm-hmm ownership. You can have the very best people if you don't have good owners. You're not going to be successful and the ownership group here. The partners Mr Leone says has involved I think that level of their commitment to being successful for the whole three sixty of player as been an unparalleled witness by their commitment today and the investments that they're making I would show Bradley we went full scale to make sure we have the very best healthcare full-scale to have the best team services full-scale to have the very best opportunities off the floor away from basketball life after basketball. All those things besides what you already are familiar with which we've had success. Your Bradley came here. He's a two-time all star. He definitely last season felt the pressure when John Wall went down with an injury Bradley carried the team. He earned that all star trip himself. You know we didn't have a lot of help around him. At that time we went through a lot of changes through it. All Bradley was always always anchor. Always somebody that absolutely Salihi what can I do. How can I help this team and I think we want to always applaud that we want to recognize that and that's certainly on July twenty six? That's just that's when the calendar tells us the first moment we can offer this extension to them. Then we sit back and what we have to do is show Bradley Bradley every single day. This is the place for you for your future and one day you look in those rafters and hopefully we see your number up there and we're going to celebrate a title that you help bring here. Though that's the vision we have to lay out but we have to show them that their words okay. That's one thing thing but actions behind that words. That's the only way this is going to move. He's got two years left on his deal. You know in this league Tommy when people sense blood in the water. I think you would know better than anybody. I'm not sure there's a player who people WanNa pick up the phone as much and knock on your door and see if he's available or see what it might take. I know a lot of that went on this off season and by every con I've got they were all Todo. Thank you does exactly we it for me and I've never had any problem ignoring the noise that goes on around us. We just put our head down the job that's asked to do you know we've identified Bradley as a cornerstone to this franchise right there with John Wall John Wall. He earned that supermax contract injury injuries. Don't care what you make or who you are they happen and that took John off the floor in that certainly changed the way we were able to play and Bradley adapted and Rosen and did a fantastic job. We have to put more town on the floor next to him. I think this summer was a nod to that. We had to Kinda reboot right. We had to go get some younger players start to develop players that we can put around him and we had to reset our financial future to make sure that we have opportunities to add players in the future major players through the agency the B. Hopefully be able to reward all the players that we develop and have a plan. That's discernible not just us not just to players to our fans. They see that hey this makes sense. Each transaction I think in in the future we'll all make sense as we explain to people this is what we're all `bout and the ability for us to deliver a really exciting brand of basketball to the DC fans. They've already seen what Bradley beal can do and I think they saw some from what Thomas Brian was able to do now. It's up to Rui. It's up to admiral to come in as young players improve proved their worth the players we acquired through trade. I think they're great opportunities for mobile to endear himself to fans. Here is a bondage Mareo Jones. I think when you add a guy like Davi spur tans and C._J.. Miles and we added awesome quality vets to go with those young players to help with the lumps that would probably going to look at a couple times next year the one thing I think it seems with Bradley is and I know you've addressed this and it's we'll talk about as part of a bigger vision going forward. That Bradley wants to play with character guys. He wants to be around high character guys and it seems as though that's your promise to him now is that's what we're seeking out right. That's that's what will change here and I don't even know promises can be <hes> th there's a very simple to make and hard to keep we can't be about that. We gotta show him and I think we showed that through the draft and it was really neat to see when we're in Las Vegas Bradley and John they sat courtside and looked at all all of our rookies they looked at all of our players that we had around and they didn't come to just <hes> to to cheer them on. They come to see what kind of players they are and I noticed Watson Ruia watching admiral they were looking over there watching those players watched them. They carried themselves differently. They knew this take time to to prove themselves and I think the players that we on boarded so far they match the criteria just laid out they matched the criteria. We're going to demand of everybody that comes here be hard working high character and have a resume that says you're about winning winning and we can develop that that's easy. I can't say enough about coach Brooks in his staff and what a fantastic partner he was through this whole entire time Adrian his ability to to really re galvanize the troops and say hey. We're going to be young exciting being hungry hardworking. We're going to be that team. Everybody hates to play that. That's not just words. That's gotta be followed up by actions and he's putting things in place right now that I think we'll see in the season. Hey this is going to be a vision that every player in the N._B._A.. Is GonNa take notice of and want to be here Tommy when when the change came when Ernie Grunfeld was let go and you were made interim general manager you have no idea how long has searched processes going to take you have no long. You don't know how long your key cards. You'RE GONNA work in the building. You just Kinda. Come in and work at it when you were able to sit down with Ted Leonsis and talk about yeah short-term what you need to do getting ready for the draft and all the things that we're going on then exit meeting season's ending and then longer-term making making the case to be a candidate for the job. How do you separate out when you sit down with Ted? You were here for sixteen years and there were successes in sixteen years playoffs and and all N._B._A.. Back Court home runs in the playoffs and then there were reasons why change was made. How are you able to reconcile your time here? The role you played in successes failures things as you WanNa do better and hey. I'm going to do it differently. I've got a different vision for what this should look like. Well I think the easiest ways by just by actions now words and show and Ted the plan that I really was involved an awful lot more data collection a lot more value driven ideas that we add to identify players that we really should spend a lot of time focusing on for the future. I don't think I spent a lot of time looking back. I don't think that ever pays you learn from the as yes you don't live. There and I think the best driver for US moving forward as hey boy. Did we do well. How can we amplify that more are gaps? How can we supply help to those gaps in this result of those conversations book that really resonated with me was actually bye? General McChrystal Stanley McChrystal was the teams and I thought how can we bring that idea to life in basketball. It seemed like it's a no brainer to have everybody in real time some of the best thinkers in a room whenever we could be but. The the way this businesses run anymore. How often are we all one room so having the ability to trust within our departments that everybody has the very best intentions and everybody has the best ideas to execute and the the support of ownership to go do for those things act in real time make sure that we over communicate with each other but but be fine with a collective group everybody collaborating to come up with results? It's so much better than just the idea of one person and we're all waiting for the meeting to start and they're going to tell us how to do it and we walk out with our assignments. That's not what I'm about. I definitely want to involve everybody in every decision that we do but understand these are real decisions and there's not there's a big difference between an opinion and being actively involved in something when and when you don't seek advice from somebody that doesn't have to live with the result right I think everybody has skin in the game in this and I think I have a great group of people that were already here and we added a group of people so I look at this as as a kitchen cabinet we have a cabinet group of people that really are fantastic diverse backgrounds diverse experiences and the ideas that can be generated simply because we all have different areas of life that we've been in. I think that's the best way to get better quicker. I I think sometimes you can get really mundane if you just surround yourself with L. K. where we're going into this way in the N._B._A.. We're only going to do it this way. You know if things were only done one way we'd still be leaching we still be amputating and medical still be doing crazy things in basketball by one of the biggest influences I've ever had being around with Denver with my dance Oni. She'll be a whole different way of playing basketball and I love that vision back in the nineties and now it's the rage in the N._B._A.. But I was also a guy that's a surrogate father other to me this day. Bernie bickerstaff give me my first job in Denver and his influence on me and team building and his ability to see past you know if you go back to that ninety four team is the first time eight ever beat a one. I look at some of the players on that roster. They were castaway players. They were our players had failed other places. There's always something there's always a value to every single player. It's up to us to find out what it is but we have to establish the criteria of WHO's GonNa play for the Washington Wizards and it's not just one person that can dictate that so the collaborative effort of everybody everybody I think it just makes us a better opportunity to bring better players to DC entertain them develop them and I think make them really billers in the community. That's the ultimate idea here's to be successful on and off the court wherein district were reward eight right now where we've got a lot of people that we think we can inspire and help that that area of town rise them up and that's GonNa come through basketball certainly but it's going to become by the inspiration we can give to the youth and the people in that community Itami the timing if somebody sat in on your pre-draft process and spring two thousand nine thousand nine all the way up to the draft what what would have looked different in the process in the evaluation in how decisions were being made how players are being eliminated from the decision making process. I think one of the first things that we did we decided hey let's take a far more analytic approach to to evaluating players and we have fantastic people in our analytics area area with Brett Greenberg and Joe Sill certainly were at the forefront of of identifying certain algorithms that we could use it just really look at it's a fancy way of saying who makes winning plays and who has a resume of making winning plays at both ends of the cord and there's ways to evaluate a player that don't involve the box score and if it's up to them to kinda develop criteria so now you have your data driven and you add to that the value driven by that I mean your resume is a character as a human being as a practice player as a game player as a a student on campus. How you interact with everybody that you come in contact with on campus away from campus hotels airports you know the places that you get information from their endless how they interact with the media idea how they three ball kids all those things come into play when you're evaluating somebody so if you came into our meetings in the spring there was a lot more being discussed around data for sure and I think that helped to sort out who not to look at simply because there's there's certain criteria the a if you don't have this we can show you know player in the N._B._A.? Is Ever played a game. That was below this line. It's called the Mendoza Line for lack of a better tournament and waste time arguing about a player that has no demonstrated resume resume. That's below. That line is fruitless. It's time well wasted so let's tie time well-spent. Let's look at players that gave us up by eliminating a whole bunch of players gave us more time to focus on the players. We're interested in and I think we arrived where we arrived as a group because we had the analytic area the data area driven that was covered the value driven peace with the backgrounds that we were able to do the cognitive testing that we do that simply. How do you learn how can we coach better under the background checks and certainly the medical screening those five pieces called come together and that that's what allows you access to become Washington wizard? Nothing being a lot more. I hate the word process I really do. I think it's overused but that was kind of how we went about our business and I think that's we're going to continue expound on that moving forward time when you have to make decisions as an interim G._M.. That may be long-term resets for an organization that you're doing it with the understanding that you might not be here for it they. They're interviewing other candidates. Maybe they've offered the job somewhere else. Somebody's turned it down. Maybe the processes this is going along. Was it clear to you that to do the job it. It wasn't necessarily about let me just try to cobble together the best team I can for this coming season that I've gotta do this thing because you've made you know Thomas sat around ski. There was a good player for you and you wanted to keep them at the right number and in the past sometimes you wash overpaid for guys that maybe they either to bring them in or maybe to keep them and you drew a line in a way a notice. Some agents say it well usually could get paid in Washington D._C.. Okay but some of those decisions to again draw line and say maybe we take a step back in the short term to take to to clear the books to clear the deck to gather some more assets and you did you gathered up picks processes prospects and you did it without the knowledge of whether you'd be able to be around to see them develop yeah I think you can ever be like cell survival mode in this in this setting because of what the challenge was given to me by Mr Leonsis was puts up together that we think can be sustainable and do a good job with I think that was all I needed to know. Is I have an opportunity to be involved in this but I also understood the entire time. The rest of the basketball world got is on this and how would it look if I was just trying to save my own neck you know the decisions you make if they're the right decisions they'll speak for themselves in time and I'm willing to take the risk because I thought those are all the right things to do. Not just for Tommy Sheppard before everyone in this organization and I think that's where the Ted's commitment was fantastic. I can clearly remember the day when when he asked me to do this obviously then I can clearly remember every moment interaction since then. There was never one time I want you to do this. This is what you have to do. It was like what do you think show me the plan. Show me the structure. Show me how you're going to execute it and you can do whatever it is that you need that you see fit and the first real big challenge honestly was free agency because the temptation to reassemble those are quality players that left here and I really each one has a story. Each one took a piece my heart when they left you really get close to players in this business but one thing that was told to me it's okay love. Players is not okay to be in love with players. You can't let it blind you to the business a basketball and when when when a price point got to high we had to have a financial discipline to know that hey in the future this really affect what we're trying to do and most of the players that left here. They got gray contracts they did but they're short term contract so if we had done those here we'll be right back where we were in a year. We'd be right back where we were this summer. I want my but we keep doing this all over again and that just doesn't appeal to me. I don't don't think that was wise for the long term health the franchise and so what we were able to do this summer and that was great for us. I don't look to be applauded and we don't need to be graded. Grades always should come to three years after the trades or after the draft after free agency as composed rose to within twenty four hours. I don't think that's ever been <hes> very beneficial for people but the best thing I can say about going through that entire deal as it felt very natural. It was very much of a group setting where everybody was so involved in it wasn't rehearsed. We really felt like everything that was going. According to plan we took some shots we took some tough hits and you turn around and and you pivot and you keep moving forward and that's why I was so proud of this group the idea of collaboration aberration and what that means in the end you. You're going to make decisions. You're the final decision making the owner. Owner is a final decision maker right Ted Leonsis but but you're the general manager and there's a moment moment of truth where you've got to pull the trigger on trade or draft night or making decisions on staff. What does it mean in this world to collaborate? I do think there's there's been a realization. Some places got it sooner than others that this job is big and and that a general manager I thought the Clippers Front office and the way they've reshaped and rebuilt their roster. You saw like lots of quality people brought in maybe not as much centralized Lawrence Franks in charge but bombers and see bombers involved and they're gonNA listen to their coach Doc rivers. It feels like more and more that what you've done in Washington is a recognition around the league that man. There's a lot to this and there's a lot to do in this. Well absolutely in the time spent the time loss if you're trying to just be a team of one is wasted time. I think the the most important thing when you're looking at big decisions the big moments is Ted likes to say is no that you prepared and you have planned A._B._C._d.. All the way through the alphabet because things happen the the best laid plans this summer look how many teams plan for a certain player this summer and they didn't get that so they had to pivot quickly I think being. Gable to have in real time access to the best in Intel the very best information to make these decisions that's what's critical and the only comes from having more people involved in the process of gathering it having more people involved in the process of reading that Intel reading that data and telling US hey these these are manageable outcomes and then being able to have the resources and the support of ownership. That's the critical critical piece and I think the teams that were successful. This summer are the ones that have the very best ownership the leadership uh on top because we know all the people in the league. I don't think anybody comes in this wanting to fail. There's very successful people in the N._B._A.. I think the succession plan is always in place. The organizations grow leaders and other places they just haven't on adapted to the times and I think we're we're we're trying to get to here in Washington is going to be much quicker than people may realize just because of the resources that we've been afforded by our ownership group if the wizards are run right in Washington in D._C.. Should this be a destination organization in the N._B._A.. One thousand percent I think it always has been you know I heard people say in the past. We have an attractive free agents. WILL I don't know Bradley. Beal resigned your John Wall resigned there marching Cortott when he was year Markeith Moore's we had a lot of players that re upped with us and I think those are huge free agents because at that time they were some of the top players in the marketplace and we were attracted. We've been able to attract free agency or over the years for for a very long time but now at this place and being able to manage our message out there to the basketball world that this is what we have available. It's world class one of a kind three sixty opportunity for you as a person to be better and to sustain and to prolong your career career. I think that's what is exciting and that's going to be world class. That's what we're going to have to blast from the mountaintops to show the N._B._A.. This is the place Washington D._C.. Is a destination one hundred percent. John Wall's Rehab in Florida. You normally might think I think he's isolated. He's away from the organization. He's there's a level of scrutiny going on with with his rehab process. I know Ted joked about every morning. He's replaced the Washington Post with <hes> emails. Video evaluation of what John's doing is that just vital player of the investment you have in him. He's your highest paid player when highs paid players league and then of course an all star guard and an injury are- combined with an injury series as the one he has that that that it's gotta be part of your daily routine. I think over communicating is what I wanna be accused them and making sure you know our ownership group made huge investment in John he could do not have ever asked for that injury to happen but we certainly could manage the outcomes the best as possible by making sure he has the very best plan in place to get back to the floor and it takes one hundred percent participation on his part but it takes one hundred percent participation on our part to make sure the very best healthcare in the plan in place in the progress that he makes sharing in those successes with with Ted every day. That's that's part of this process you go through when you're trying to bring a player back to the court. <hes> you got to celebrate. You got to manage the disappointments. There's tough days you know the mundane monotony approach of Rehab especially to an Achilles injury you know every day looks the same for a couple of three four five months in Monroe and that's really difficult for somebody as competitive as John Wall and I think the necessity for John to see that we are paying attention because we care about him. The person that player that came to DC five-time all star was all M._B._A.. That's committed so much money and time to this not just this city not just this franchise but around the the Basketball Globe and what he does with his grassroots team and what he's done in Raleigh what he's done for for single mothers all the different things at John on does not just about putting that ball through it's it's the person that we care about it. I think when he sees the support from us it really does push him up another notch his ability to get back to the court because he loves basketball share but I think he also wants to show hey hey. I appreciate all the things that you've done for us partner with you in this. He's not just out there. You know unchecked in in the basketball summer does John need people. Does he need to have somebody on top of him. He's I see a player. Not every it is monotonous rehab of that injury is difficult but is Jonah player who an organization has to stay on more than maybe someone else but I think every single athlete leading somebody's supervision wise to make sure they're doing all the things that they need to do but certainly to be there to manage the difficult times and so I wouldn't put John any different than any other athletes in the N._B._A.. The tough times come when you're by yourself away from the crowd away from your team and you're doing a hundred till raises and you're you're trying to spell the alphabet with your toes and there's two people in the room and this guy's played in front of sold out crowds in the playoffs. He's been in all star Games and now he's he's performing in front of a physical therapist. You know in the middle of nowhere sometimes that's that's difficult emotion for a player to channel and being able to see yourself back on the floor knowing that hey sometimes as injury takes over a year to get too so I think doesn't make John Wall any different sprint. I do think what we WANNA make sure he understands is how important is to this franchise and the only way you can do that is with the old T._i.. And being able to have conversations every day and not just with myself not just with Scotty Brooks not just with his teammates mates Ted Leonsis is calling him. He's down there. He went to see John. John's been to his house. That's a level commitment and interest that I think John Recognizes. Hey everybody's watching. Everyone's counting on me and I want them to feel that a little bit that hey this this business for me. As a player coming back it affects so many lives and I want him to know that we care so deeply about him as a person certainly but the business end of this as we need you back we need you to be as good of a players you can possibly be. We're GONNA give you all the resources pieces and we need you to be honored percent compliant and he's done that. I think anybody that's seen John Out and about over the summer he was able to introduce Bradley built the N._B._A.. Awards ceremony and how much pride that gave us and people were taken aback. He looked great. It's scary to watch this workouts. We had him in Vegas and people are looking at them on the floor and they said well. How is he gonNA play preseason? It's how quickly he looks great and how skilled years as a player but there's no calendar and there's no clock. That's going to tell us when John's coming back what's going to happen is when he's one hundred percent and even the additions today with would danny. I think our medical staff now is to be able to really save a player from himself because John's one of those players he will sneak out layup line. If he's fifty percent he wants to play badly and the investment alone tells you that we can't allow that to happen. He has to one hundred percent healthy and I think the medical staff will do whatever it takes to get them back to the court but I think John is by far the biggest critic of himself and he wants to get back to where he was and you know there's only one way to do that is to do this and be complied with everything so I can't say enough about his participation this summer and he knows where what he needs to do. I think the raises on you know obviously K.. D. had a devastating stating injury in in in the finals and it's very similar injury to what John went through so he's got a soulmate right there that he can talk to some of the most common places for that injury to happen in the N._F._l.. There in in European football so now the experts that we added today there's more people that can can relate to John's injury and help us and make sure that we had the best people and I go back to the addition of Isaiah Thomas as a player for us. It's a no brainer but the empathy he can give John from having injury happened up in and change and take the game away from you is as walked at walk so I think having people like that serve John as well as our medical staff having the ability to to have someone to talk to you that's been through that like Isaiah that was tremendous US Chami for a punter from New Mexico state. Hey I was an aspect. I was defensive back. I get on the field gets back here. I wasn't a planner I I spent time with the punters clarify that your history with becoming part of the global game and really at the forefront with service Marshall Ona's all the way back there even before your your days at U._n._l._v. n._p._R.. Nuggets yes. I know that for Ted Leonsis making the wizards feel more like an organization that was embracing the Global Games whether scouting and having the ability which you have to go to a lot of places around in the world know the guy know who's in the gym nowhere to get information nowhere to get accurate information more importantly Ted Ted it said to me that that was a big part of this that your background but you started worded internationally really in a little bit of a roundabout way right absolutely I think my very first exposure to it was actually in goes back to ninety six Olympics and I was working for the U._S._O._C. and we had a Greek player for the Denver Nuggets. We drafted a kid at the time theme is wrenches and he happened to be playing for Greece at the Olympics so I got the opportunity to go over introduce myself to him. As a first time I really I chance to meet him and ninety six was transformed for me because also that time we had a player player in Denver Makhmudov abdul-raouf and we made a big trade and we traded in for sure and it's Marshall Onus well now. I have two players at the Olympics and I had an opportunity to go and introduced myself bath the Denver Nuggets and give them the welcome <hes> the welcome mat that they needed hidden deserved but then Bernie bickerstaff at the town today wants to do some scouting reports while you're there wants you watch these Games and tell me what you see the partnership I may which ruinous at that time I didn't realize even brother for the rest of my life <hes> <hes> working with him and ninety six and everyday since he's been somebody that's so influential in my life and being able to send scouting reports back and people read them and <hes> I think that started the interest and then it just took off and being able to with Sharunas we put a league. League together a pan-european League that ended up being a model for for what feebly ended up with feeble Europe and you know those those opportunities. They don't seem big at the moment they just seem like something you just love your pursue what you love and I remember traveling the globe and seeing seeing you the same places that world championships and the Olympic Games of those those games are as intense as anything I've ever been part of probably more intense than some N._B._A.. Finals Games if he can believe that just because of what's at stake. It's once every four years as forty minutes. It's a feeble ball all in three feeble rafts and everything that can happen with that and the country's pride is at stake in those games are so so meaningful and I think that took that to heart and now I look back on it and I've been involved with players from well over twenty twenty-five international players in my time and every one of them special story something about them and it's helped me teach much kids geography. They all know we're players are from based on you know they look at the world map and say Oh basketball and they know where players here's our from simply because of what I do <hes> but the international global game that's where it's Ad and I've I'd say it over and over again. We haven't checked passport yet. We haven't checked <hes> driver's license yet. We we don't care how old you are where you're from. If you can play you can stay but certainly we cast a much wider net now in the N._B._A.. Going Global Ernie Corsie who was the general manager of the giants and <hes> Baltimore called said to me he had started on the P._R.. Side in pro sports and immersed himself in person in the scouting process wanted to make the Trans make that transformation over and still would always get sort of the you know the raised eyebrows from the guys who'd been career rare basketball guys I remember he said to me once. Hey listen it takes seven years learn to become a doctor. I really believe you can learn how to scout and learned talent and a window of seven years. If if it takes seven years to learn how to do open heart surgery injury from the beginning of college through med school what was that transformation like and what was it like in the League where you came in you you were P._R.. Director in Denver and U._N._l._v. and then you you went over to player services and then you you slowly moving you came aim the Washington and a front office roll well. They've always the benefactor at that time a very small. We were very small productions in the N._B._A.. Back in front offices et four or five people so there was a ton of tons and tons of jobs. It never got done and it needs to be done and I was benefactor that with Bernie bickerstaff I I remember. He allowed me to go watch high school games because nobody was doing reports on that. We didn't have anything on that but yet I got to go down. Watch G DUB PLAY IN DENVER and there was a great gardner by name Chauncey billips. They got a chance do reports on chance back in the day and watch some C._B._A.. Games because we didn't have anybody on staff that could do that and if there's jobs that aren't getting done you can take those on and if you screw them up no one's going to say anything anyway right but it gave me a chance to grow in the responsibility that was added and so when I got to U._N._l._V. Meeting Coached Arcane and that was transformative in my life particularly you get a chance to work with one of the greatest coaches of all time but also because of his staff and Tim Gerbrich who to this day is by far my biggest basketball influence and and life coach that I've ever been around helped me really learn how to not even just evaluate talent for M._B._A.. For College for everything else but also how to treat every player and how to motivate and how how to get the very best out of people I follow what key coach Tommy and then really mass amino came into my life and his staff and the people that were there you know we were in such a small basketball community. The small world that we live in where you know one of his assistance was Jay Wright. Our manager was Brett. Gunning will interact with those guys. All the time Tom Cora we have fantastic staffs back then and see all those people do this day. What did you learn about crisis management at U._N._l._v.? That's got to prepare you for something right. Every day was a crisis absolutely when the crazy becomes normal. That's always refer back to those times you you don't know it until you step away and realize hey other athletic departments. Don't have their own lawyers. Come to every staff meeting and <hes> you know the team the school President President doesn't film your basketball coach basketball classes. You thought that was kind of how it was supposed to be but honestly I think crisis management P._R.. We're all in that. Were in that business to this day and if we don't believe that you're kidding yourself I think the most important thing to for properly functioning franchises for everybody to recognize our fiduciary responsibility to ownership but really our responsibility to our fans. Put the best team out. There and I don't think anybody cares you play twenty-five thirty years ago it's about what you can produce today. How can you help this franchise? Give better and that's how we evaluate people and that's how I was always evaluated. The transformation for me was easy well because I I was college athlete but I play basketball my whole life hyphen I think when I got the opportunity to be at New Mexico state and football wasn't so good we weren't very good team but we had a great basketball team and actually <hes> you know Johnny Rogerson jumping Johnny Rogerson running around with with the aggies backed in Lo and behold years years later. There's Andre Roberson. His son POPs open the N._B._A.. It's the circle life that keeps coming up time and time again but that experience with with Aggie basketball led to me working at U._n._l._v. and all the people we already discussed and that got me in front of the nuggets in that got me into the Washington Wizards. Yeah I think all those experiences you look back on even the smallest experiences that we laugh about to this day they were very transformative and the ability I think for anybody to make a difference in our business just comes back by how hard you willing into work how much willing to learn how much you can bring to the organization you mentioned the influence. Might the Antoni had on you in Denver and Michael Talk about when he started there. He wasn't ready to go all in on what he really believed in. What what do you remember about where he was in terms of what he thought the N._B._A.? Could take or what he thought he could. He was an interim coach and can I go all in on this style that I wanna bring from Italy with me but I'm not quite sure I can really sell it here and you never wanna live life with regret. I think if Mike would was sitting here he would tell you. I think he wanted to go back to that team. Unfortunately it was a lockout-shortened season so you didn't have an opportunity to maybe have that training camp that you really need to put in a style style of play but I think at that time. Mike definitely didn't want to to really shake the N._B._A.. On its ear because there was still it's so new back then to think of somebody coming from Europe implementing style play completely different than the way the N._B._A.. was and thinking it was just going to be cool and be normal because it wasn't at that time the great players in the league were all in the post and a great scores. They were not the ilk of some of the players at Mike has certainly certainly in Phoenix and in Houston and other places he's been that's I'm the game was ugly. It was getting you know defenses. Were were the kings and what Mike was able to do later on in life. I think he could have done at that time in the N._B._A.. We didn't have enough talent but the wisdom the way he wanted the division of the way the game was being played in his mind back then. Certainly I think if we could've stayed at it it would have been successful because it's it's successful now. It just takes somebody really doing and I think every great idea starts out as heresy right but as as you look forward and you start to realize how beautiful the game is when the ball moves and great shooting should matter and defenses shouldn't be allowed to tackle someone and closed on someone hand-checking got out of control when you free up the ability for players to be creative. It's such a fantastic game to watch. I think Mike knew that then and now he's been recognized for bringing that offensive firepower the N._B._A.. In that philosophy but I think it could work back into Tommy you and your wife Rosie. Seven children five girls two boys how can a general manager in the N._B._A.. Ray Seven cow. How do you do that? You marry a saint. I was able to do and they marry me my wife. Mary may not my job my kids. They really don't at the end of a day when I go home. It's never about the wizards it's always about. What can we do as a family? How can we make this time count because you can't really sit around counting the time you know I have a work life? That's very time intensive and I gotTa make sure I have enough when I get home to suspended as that equal amount of energy with my family and and then ambience right here a lot of nights they lose a lot of nights we give more time to our teams and we do to our families and every time you say we're going to do better. Something else seems to come up but I think the family life five the home balance to have the the situation life that I've been blessed with. It allows me to be very good at what I do my office in my office life because of the support I have at home <hes> I I tell you what one thing that I think. The toughest job in the world is the one that you don't need a license. A certificate a degree diploma four is is to have a child into raise children and you would think you would have to have at least a doctorate to be able to have a child and yet we have them all over. I and I think for me the ability to to raise children and what it takes to have a happy home I can take so many those lessons and apply them here at work and I always tease players look. I don't take that crap off mark you off. You think we can laugh about it in you. You know when Bradley came in John came into the league they were young men and now they both have sons and we can bond over raising children and talking about feeding at three A._M.. A lot as easy and comfortably as we do. How are we gonNA stop the rockets? How are we going to be Toronto Ronald those conversations now? There's so much fun or more fulfilling for me to watch those guys they came in the League is young men now. They're grownups with families and we have a lot more in common and the gap the age gap from oldest two youngest with you is what now so twenty-three down to seven and it's it's a heck of a gap but it it I tell you what's so neat about our opportunity that the life that this has been afforded to us as a family in the N._B._A.. Is So many friends that you meet and all around Niccolo. My children have been exposed a lot of it because of basketball but they've been exposed to people from all kinds of walks of life all kinds of cultures everywhere around the world and I think it's made them much more well rounded more worldly and I have basketball the thank Tommy I have you. Thank for a great forty five minutes here. You got to be all talked out today. You've done a lot of talking Krisha. You spend a little bit of time here as they were saying earlier. I think I got paid by the word of Warren Buffett today but.

basketball Bradley Bradley John Ted Leonsis general manager Ted Ted Bradley beal John Wall Washington Tommy Washington Wizards US partner Denver Toronto Bernie bickerstaff Europe Scotty Brooks Mike
Scal & McDonough: Nets and Wizards Getting Cold Feet?

Big Time Basketball

27:58 min | 3 months ago

Scal & McDonough: Nets and Wizards Getting Cold Feet?

"This is the scanlon bells podcast with NBA. Champion, Brian, Scelo, brainy, and former NBA, general manager and Executive Ryan mcdonagh. Allow everyone and welcome back to Scallon. Pals. I'm Ryan mcdonagh joined as always by Brian scallop brainy as a reminder, we have fresh podcasts out Mondays and Thursdays with the best guess in the NBA You can follow us on twitter at Scallon Pals. You can subscribe rate and review us on Itunes, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts and live shows will resume on radio DOT COM in late July leading up to the NBA's returned to play again Ryan. mcdonagh jere with you joined us as always by Brian Scall-, rainy and scale we. We have a packed show today as usual. Usual allowed to get to starting with players dropping out of Orlando especially from teams on the Eastern Conference playoff bubble Washington in Brooklyn had a few key defection since we last went off air earlier this week I also thought the Pacers head coach. Nate McMillan had some interesting comments on victor depots decision not to participate in Orlando. I will hear from the Commissioner, Adam Silver as well. He had some concerns about the bubble setup. And what happens if players do test positive down the road after they get settled in Orlando and scowl also have on Spike Eskin from philly longtime. Anchor there on WIP runs a very popular rights to Ricky Sanchez podcast in knows as much about the Philadelphia Seventy sixers franchise just about anybody, so we'll have spike on onto talk seventy sixers, but but I guess I'll start the show with a proclamation. A decision that I made over the last few days. skype decided that I'm not gonNA GO TO ORLANDO. Nobody else wants to go. Everybody's opting out now now. Nobody invited me I'm just sitting here on. On my house, doing these shows, but so that may be an issue as well, but regardless I'm not going to Orlando I'm just going to be watching the Games on TV and talking about I'm here on radio DOT. com with you, so can I ask why because I, also wonder the same thing with NBA players. Why? Why after all this time off? You NBA players feel like I can't go. Is it like a new popular? Accessory like you're too good to go to the bubble. I'm really curious on for you Ryan. Why are you not going to the bubble? Well first and foremost, because I wasn't invited and too cheap to pay for it myself, so that was the first problem, but but what other that? You make a good point I. I really don't know and that's one of the things we're looking at. It's easy to look back in. At the NBA's decision to be inclusive and bring twenty two teams to Orlando, but scalise I look at it from an overarching perspective I wonder if Adam Silver and the folks ligue office. Who made that decision? Said you know, we should have made this a little bit tighter. We didn't need to bring twenty to you and I I in particular, twenty was the right number. Some argued that just bring the sixteen playoff teams and start the playoffs upscale. Do you think Adam Silver's having any regrets about bringing twenty two teams to Orlando with all these guys choosing not to play? I think he's having regrets about bringing a teams. Teams to the East because only seven actually want to be there, and that's maybe seven. WanNa. Be there, but we know Washington and Brooklyn. They should sell their spot to Memphis or new. Orleans I, understand this is the NBA opportunity to try all kinds of crazy stuff because of the coronavirus because it was a bubble, why bring teams at don't want to be there? When I get a pulse on these teams and find out if our guy interested or guys, not interested I would love to see a couple more western conference teams in there, but you know that's the decision they made. I'm sure they're fine with it because. I think the the race for the last spot out West is act really interesting race? It's actually the only interesting games in the first eight games that we're going to see from each team is going to be who makes the playoffs, but outside of that I'm just getting a sense add. There's a lot of people that actually don't want to play basketball. I can't believe that we played I. We cover a MBA or a league. Where like their significant amount of well, maybe not a significant, there's players in the NBA. Don't want to play basketball. It is a little bit surprising scowl, and most of the guys. Especially the star players who decided not to play are not on the championship contending teams. They're on the fringe team's teams on the periphery. The teams that frankly some people myself included a wonder. You know if if they should be there if they they should should have been invited to Orlando, so let's start there scale. Let's start with the Washington Wizards This is something you. I saw coming. We predicted. Predicted on this show Bradley Beal The star. Shooting Guard for the wizards said he is not going to play in Orlando here. Here's what Bill said. scalise said this was a difficult decision and one that I did not take lightly as leader. This team I wanted to help. My teammates compete for a playoff spot in Orlando, but I also understand this will be best for us all in the long term. He goes on to say appreciate the support of his teammates. Entire Organization any is looking forward to returning next now scowl. The Wizards mentioned Tommy Sheppard. The GM and the medical staff are mentioned a slight shoulder injury. Two bills right shoulder. The thing that I have a hard time with about that is you know? He played most of the played in fifty seven of the wizard sixty four games. He was second in the League in scoring. We didn't hear anything about a shoulder injury over the past three months, and then all of a sudden with with John Walnut playing and devastated towns, choosing not to play now bills, not playing, either in the wizards look like one of the worst, if not the worst team going to Orlando. I mean to say say I. If you use the shoulder injury, you still get paid right. If you choose not to go, then you don't get paid. I. Mean just go on and be honest. Victor. The depot was honest with what he said. He's like listen. I'M NOT A. I'm not feeling that actually. Go play five on five which you mentioned earlier. Naming Mellon has some interesting words to say about that, but I'm not I. Just don't feel ready I. Don't feel like in this environment I can get ready to play in be at my best, and he would just come back from an injury and all that stuff that Brad beal. One just be honest man. You don't WanNa. You don't WanNa go out there and play. You don't want to hurt your contract situation. You don't WanNa hurt your. The Washington Wizards don't want to hurt. Their chances to trade you whatever it is just come out and say you know I don't WanNa play because of the future franchise had nothing to do with my shoulder injury. I agree with that scale. Honesty is the best policy especially with the NBA allowing people to allowing players to not give an excuse scale if they don't WanNa play, players just said I don't feel like there's. It seems like Szabo Steph Alosha. Houston Rockets didn't give a reason. You just said I'm not playing and in. That's accepted now whether it should be. Be, accepted or not as a different story, but the League is accepting that but I guess let's not overlook the fact Scou- before we pile on bill too much that he did have a terrific year as I mentioned, he played in fifty, seven of the wizard, sixty four games, scally average thirty and a half points per game. That's second in the. The NBA to James Harden. Wants. Dad I read this morning. That I thought was really interesting. In addition to bills thirty point five points per game average six point one assists and had basically a fifty eight percent true shooting percentage numbers that have only been exceeded in a single season by Oscar Robertson, Michael Jordan and James Harden. That was an article from. From Kevin O'Connor on the ringer on so scale bill. The team wasn't very good. It was hard to wash. The wizards play this year especially on the defensive end of the floor, but that doesn't take away from the fact, that bill had a phenomenal season especially in the offensive end. Do you look at it like he's his wasting away in Washington like? Every year. I guess not with with this year. We knew they were going to be bad. As shearman every year they sell us. They're going to be good best back core in the east all this stuff and they never. They always disappoint us. Is it time for like Bradley? Beal to get out of there. Have you had brad beal? which is relatively young and you have this up and coming group. You still want Brab you on your team. You get like multiple lottery picks for a guy like I feel like he's like franchise changing if he can get to a team that has another a couple of good players, but for whatever reason is I always led by some disappointment with Washington. Yeah I think the million dollar. Question in Washington is the health of John. Wall scale here. You know he's been out for a couple years. You know with a number of injuries. They gave him that Max contract. That currently looks like the worst contract in the league, so for the wizards to have a chance. They need wall to be healthy. They need him to approach his pre injury level. Are they also need to be healthy? They're going to try to resign Davis. Burton were also opted out of Orlando this summer, so I think next year will be very important for the wizards scowl especially if Wallace healthy because we view this kind of their last chance I. Mean I think they run out? Out of credibility and run out of time at some point before wall potentially demands a trade or gets very disgruntled with with his season situation in Washington Scout, and you remember the pictures on the bench. I think they were playing in Chicago this year after a few losses in a row where they give up giving up a million points this is a team with the thirtieth and last ranked defense in the league a sky. You remember those images, a bill sitting on the bench, just kind of staring into space as the wizards walked off the floor. I don't know what they're I I. CAN'T WRAP my mind around why I guess the only thing I can say is like he still eligible to be a supermax sky now Ryan with the CBA can you have two guys in your team that are supermax. Can John Wall and Bradley Beal Bulk? Get to supermax how the supermax works. I believe you can scale because they drafted. Both of those guys in retain them their entire career. There are some restrictions about trading for multiple supermax players I believe he can only trade for one, but I I think the wizards can do because they drafted John. Wall and Bradley beal has to be the reason that he wants to stay. Just the idea of making fifty million dollars a year versus thirty six, or whatever the other number is, but that has to be the reason why he wants to stay in Washington. Why not go to a team? That has a chance to win. Yeah, well. I mean I think the other way to look at that scale. The way that I think optimistic wizards fans look at it is there in the Eastern conference? So so if you're in the Eastern Conference, you know I I thought there six pretty good teams in the east this year, the top six and the conference out or land, decent below five hundred but other than s golf. You look at the rest of the conference. You say if you're the wizard, you say you know what if John Wall is healthy. If Brad beal has another good year if we re signed Burton's, we should be a playoff team next year. Yeah I mean could also disappoint again. Okay? WHO's GonNa? Drop up the nets I assume unless career just that much of a disaster I assume the nets are going to be better what they are this year so? For one to get in one has to go out and don't feel like the rest of the teams are also improving so i. don't know man. I I mean. I don't know how good John John Wall's going to be. So it's seems to me. It just doesn't make any sense Washington. They don't even play any defense this year. What's going to change next year? So I'm just not stop feeling the whole Brad beal I think. Think Babbio can go to a nice team and make a huge difference you go. The warriors make a difference. You go the mavs and make a difference. I think he can go to a lot of places and make a difference. If not, it's just going to be another year of disappointment for Bradley beal. This like right now. The bubble like he's not going to play for whatever reason I think it has to do with. Contractual situations washing looking to trade him. Washington I guess going all in and and promising once again that just could be the best backward in the east, but I don't know what it is about Washington and those guys. They just seem to disappoint or not. I agree with that scale, and I think Brad beal would have a ton of value on the trade market. Keep in mind that we've had a little lag here in the trade market. Never since Anthony Davis traded last summer I've seen that was a blockbuster deal driven in at least in part by his demand to get traded and try to do wanting to play in La with him approaching free agency but other than that scale over the past year, plus there haven't been any walk buster deal that I guess you could say Russell Westbrook and and And Chris Paul I was obviously a one for one swap and I. Bring that up because I think Bradley. Beal is the guy that teams around the league. Who as you mentioned they have to? Stars maybe there a second tier contender, and they feel like their one piece away. especially a piece in the back court. You mentioned the team that jumps out to me. The Dallas Mavericks in our could could could Bradley beal playing alongside Luca Danni switch in kristaps, porzingis vault that team into the upper echelon of contenders I. I think he probably could. Keep an eye on teams like Dallas Miami. Celtics Alva- Tony Young players in two young stars in Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum. It'd be a nice addition to that group as well and then I see every talk about the Lakers but I i. just don't think team like the Lakers scale given given what they gave up to get. Anthony Davis with the picks and young players going out I don't think the La Lakers would have enough to bring Bradley beal in as Third Start Yeah I, never not. Not I never understood Washington and why they weren't pedder I've loved John Wall all the way up until sometime last season or somewhere in the beginning of last year before he pops his Achilles I've always loved his side. Love him a transition when the best transition players in the league I love how passes I? Don't have the way those guys talk about being the best. They don't show it that they're the best. But I, just for whatever reason I a fresh start would be maybe even first for John Wall as well. Watching going all in with these two, this is a dangerous I mean. Obviously they probably should have traded. John. Wall in that contract awhile back, but it's a dangerous time for them. Because they could go be all in and and Bradley Beal's value could diminish I'M A. It will be such a good player, but this like this summer's does seem like the time or I guess it would be this early fall. Does he might the time where they could cash in on some young players and try to build you know young, and and and get hungry young players. Getting to the point where you could sorta bill. Know a championship team somewhere in the future I. Just don't know what those guys can be a part of it. NBA for offices view those two guys very differently. Scale Bradley Beal's contract very desirable with the pro- productivity. We mentioned You know he's young. He's when he's healthy. He's one of the best scores in the League one of the best offensive player League, especially with 'em, adding more playmaking this year with wall out averaging over six assists a game John Wall untradable at this point in I'll be honest with you there. There's no team in. In the League who would take on John Walls contract with his injury history, and that salary so I think what's most likely scowls at Washington comes back next year that come into training camp next season with wall and beal see how it works out in then it doesn't work out great if the wizards don't get off to a good start, think keep an eye on potentially being in play in trade scenarios around next year's trade deadline. explained to me, the amnesty clause, and how that could affect John Wall. So, there isn't one anymore scale that that was done away with. In the last CBA there have been no changes to the so all the wizards can do now. WHA-, the can't trade walls contract, which fairly certain. They can't as a fifteen plus your executive. WHO KNOWS EVERY GM? In the League. All they could do really scouts. They want some relief and this would be very painful. Can Wave and stretch the remainder of it, so they still have to pay him as money, but basically the remaining contract which for John, Wall scale is a thirty eight point two million this year, Forty one point two next year in forty four point three the year after that none of the player option for forty seven point four, so basically scowl. They can wave and stretch that in the way that works is you take the remaining years on the contract and in this scenario be three years after this one, you can double that and then add one so i. I know it's a little confusing, but basically it takes three years, and you can spread the money out over a seven year period you still have to pay the cash that money in that money's still counts in your books, which is why most teams don't want to wave in stretch a player especially at that salary level. Yeah, that's I think. Washington has to do something that they want to be relevant in in the NBA now. Especially I do think the ISA's is getting better. I think there's going to be up and coming. Teams are GonNA continue to improve. Agreed agreed, so let's let's stick with the Eastern Conference playoff bubble since we run off air earlier this week scale, the Brooklyn Nets announced that two key players Spencer Dinwiddie, their one of their star guards. He's the best player on their active roster. This year was the best player on their active roster this year without Kevin Durant Kyrie Irving missing most of the year or significant part of the year he's decided not to play, the said the team doctors decided that he won't play out of an abundance of caution keep in mind that that he recently did test positive for Covid nineteen and then I. I guess what happens. Gal got tested again right before the team was about to leave for Orlando. He was still positive so to some extent, the team doctors in consultation with the front office and Dinwiddie decided that Dinwiddie is not going to play for the nets in Orlando, so the nets consign whoever they want at this point, and and I think it's a cool move that they signed Jamal Crawford. You could hear like the praises and the roses being thrown at his feet for office former teammates, which everyone seems to love Jamal and Yeah, just so very interesting up for them. I I don't know. I Love Jomaa I love Jamal Seattle Guy, but I was just wondering. If you're the Brooklyn Nets, why not go for a younger guy that you feel like can maybe make a difference. I'm not trying to like. Hey, mom glad he got an opportunity, but What are you gonNA get at assigned. Jamal Crawford for this time. Is it like more of a PR, or are you looking for Jamal Crawford to be a part of your team moving forward? That's a great question. scallops Jamal Crawford. Is You know right around forty years old? He played with the Phoenix Suns last season, the averaged about eight points a game. His shooting percentages weren't great. He played about twenty minutes a game, four Phoenix and scale. He's one of the guys that again. We're not trying to pick on Jamal. But when you look at the advanced numbers of the on-off splits the plus minus you know some of the advanced analytics. He's one of the worst players in the League for at this stage is career. Those metrics so so that combined. Combined with the fact that it's also rumoured, or it seems like the Brooklyn Nets are going to sign Michael Beasley. one thing I I should also mention as that, Taurean, Prince starting forward for the Brooklyn Nets also tested positive for corona virus, so he's been ruled out of the restart in Orlando as well as Brooklyn's really depleted scowl, but I, I agree with you. I don't really understand the wisdom of signing Jamal Crawford at forty years old, and Michael Beasley. WHO, if for potentially when he signed with the nets will be playing for his ninth different NBA team. Yeah I. Mean I I. Don't gay must be to appease Katie and Kyrie. Sean marks doing what I do. Explain this explain to us like from GM standpoint. How what are you looking to get out of like a situation like this? Aren't you trying to give a young guy a chance to see if he's good, then you can sign him to like who. WHO's the Guy Lou Dort? That from Oklahoma City four years five million dollars they aren't you for a guy like that. David Knew Wabi type that you're like? Wow, we can get this guy for low money for a long period of time, and it could really help our franchise. Give us so much Catholics ability. Is that the mindset in a situation like this that you would have? It is, it is, and that's why I'm a little bit perplexed. Spy What Brooklyn's doing. I think Sean. Marks is a really bright GM, and and a great guy done a terrific job there especially given the handy was dealt with no draft picks and not many assets. He is really built that thing up. SCALL-, but I honestly wonder you know how Sean marks is fueling now. His job has changed significantly over the past year. Year, it was almost exactly a year ago. That people were giving him a ton of credit deservedly, so forgetting Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving to come to Brooklyn however, since then they fired their head coach Kenny Atkinson. Durant is not played a game in a nets uniform that was expected irving his been in and out of the lineup, as is typical with Kyrie and now, Scou- they're going on to Brooklyn with A. A with a ski. Excuse me going to Orlando with a skeleton crew. Missing of players some would argue you know five of their best players. I think the only one in that upper grouping who is playing is Carissa avert other not they don't have Kevin Durant Kyrie, Irving Spencer Dinwiddie Taurean Prince De'andre Jordan. Wilson Chandler Nick, Claxton style. All those guys are out for Orlando so yeah I. I agree with you I think. Think the approach of finding a young guy who might be go forward piece. Because let's let's be realistic scale. They're not going to be competitive anyways. Jamal Crawford and Michael. Beasley aren't GonNa make the Brooklyn Nets competitive, so if you're not gonNA win, why wouldn't you give a younger guy? A chance like they did with Spencer Dinwiddie and hope that maybe catch lightning a bottle and find somebody who's on your roster going forward. I mean I don't get it. But every since Kharian Katie got there and I loved show. Marx's done up until that point and I I don't understand I. Don't understand firing. Kenny Atkinson I. Don't understand you know. The signing of the Andrea or I don't understand a lot of things that Sean marks has done. I don't know if it's being being GM name like sort of like the tipping point like Malcolm Gladwin, talked about in his book. Once you go down the road, you gotta continue to make some of these bad decisions to make up for like a bad decision that you make first of all by getting a guy like I really. Really, or or maybe he really believes that signing some veteran guys for the following season. Remember Kyrie talked about. There's these guys are going to be here and the rest of us. We gotta get some different guys in your. Maybe the different guys Kyrie was talking about with Beasley and Jamal Crawford. I don't know it doesn't make sense for. Shaw marks to do such a good job up until this year and I just I. AM by the way by the way I actually really like the guy that they've brought in in replacement of like Kevin Durant being out at Cairo. I liked the way Brooklyn plays, but I don't understand what what the point of doing this is. I agree with you. Scale may in in my opinion, is a fifteen plus year executive and the guy who had the GM title for five plus years I think Sean marks has a lot less control now than he had prior to Kevin. Durant and Kyrie Irving stepping in the door of the Brooklyn Nets practice facility and joining the franchise I. I think it seems like he's in those guys to have a significant voice, one of the things that was reported. Relatives who Michael Beasley. Is that Beasley strong relationship with Kevin Durant. Was a factor, but scowl I. Don't get. Is You know with all due respect to Jamal Crawford and Michael Beasley there's a reason these guys are on different teams every year at the stage in their careers. I don't understand it and I don't I mean. Maybe he had the master plan, and maybe that master plan will show up next year and what happens. I mean I would lean on you and telling me like was the point of not finding some eight man that can help you like that guy. That's like wait a minute. We could sign this guy to a good deal. I just don't understand and listen I'm all for Jamal getting a job. I love that I'm actually. I'll be entertained. Watch Jamal played because he the entertaining guy who start your Masha have been in all star Games so he's so fun to watch, but from a strategy standpoint I just don't understand it. I agree with that scale, and then we, we have spike eskin coming up here in a few minutes, our friend from Philadelphia who knows the seventy sixers as well as anybody in the League before that scale that let's touch quickly on what Adam Silver said about the bubble and concerns, we mentioned some of the positive corona virus tests especially to the two nets last couple days, Spencer, Dinwiddie and then also Taurean Prince, so here's what Adam Silver said scale story on ESPN DOT com this week. you know. He expressed some concern that. When, the players get to Orlando and the teams arrived this week. Which today is the last day that teams travelling to Orlando? Once they get said if there are positive cove in nineteen tests in the future that'll reveal quote in essence a hole in our bubble. silver said we would know there's a hole on our bubble or that are quarantine or campus, not working in some way, so that would be very concerning You know thing that really stood out to. To Me Scou- We've talked about this. I haven't heard silver anybody from League office directly. Answer this up until now Adam Silver said certainly, if we had any sort of significant spread of the virus within our campus, we would be shut down again sky. I think that's what you and I thought. He would say but prior to saying this week. I hadn't heard those words. Come on Adam Silver's mouth as far as potentially shutting down. The Orlando Restart for good. You know it's funny about this whole thing is. I, get it. There are a lot of people who are dying a lot of older people who are dying nursing homes like the average age is eighty three, but if you're young, and you're healthy like you're gonNa feel a little bit of a cold like we've all every single person out. There has had the flu. We've all been aw man throwing up the last three day like whatever. Whatever revolved dealt with the flu, the symptoms from the corona virus our way, let's especially for people who are healthy. There's also millions of people out there who are getting tested and who don't have any symptoms. Why are NBA players so afraid of getting coronavirus? Why Adam silver like saying I'll shut it all down if a guy gets thrown barber, these people that are the least amount a of. Experiencing any type of long term damage. Is this group of guys right now? I, so unclear on why the NBA is to over-react to. If ten people get it or twenty people get. Well. Sky I disagree with you on one thing I think it's hard to say that people aren't going to suffer long term damage because the virus only been around for six or seven months now, so so nobody knows really what the long term repercussions are. It seems like most of the scientists think they're not serious, but I think that is the concern. If if you know, it was underestimated especially in a leadership position like Adam silver, and he say any downplayed the disease and said don't worry about it. There will be no long-term effects in there were long term effects, Gal even to one player I think the NBA would be in a lot of trouble especially from a liability standpoint. So so home on here. There's long effects from anything though like. How is this different than anything else? If you get the flu and have long term effects and if You guys still play through Foos. That's not. That's all part of the game. Some research that this attacks, your respiratory system may limit your breathing capacity for example as a pro athlete, obviously, if that is true, and and find out in time. That is the case I do understand limiting risk to the extent that the league can't. Interesting, because even if you smoke cigarettes, your whole life like within four years, your lungs can be compete completely regenerated. So. How is it somehow like when guys work out every single day houses going to have some time, somehow can have long term effects and by the way. If you, if any of these guys who are getting it, they're all going to have long-term damage. All kinds of players testing positive to. My point is whether you're in the bubble playing basketball doing this doing that like I. It's impossible to stop the spread of this seeing. How how are you going to do that? And so if you go and play in the bubble and you get it, it's strictly the NBA's fall, but we clearly saw other guys testing positive before they got to the bubble. Yeah you. You bring up some some good points scale I think it's one that look it depends on your perspective. It depends on your risk tolerance, and and more than anything. It depends on what you think. The long term repercussions of this virus are if there are any or not, and if there are how serious they are, and that that's for each individual person. I think to decide, and that's why some players have opted out on that. No SCALLOP. We'll take a break right there. We're going to be back after the break with Philadelphia seventy. sixers insider Spike Eskin. I'm Ryan mcdonagh and I'm joined by singer Gupta I mean Brian scale rainy our medical expert here on Scallon Pals on radio DOT com.

Orlando NBA League Brad beal Washington wizards Brooklyn GM Jamal Crawford Adam Silver Brooklyn Nets Ryan mcdonagh John John Wall Kevin Durant Sean marks John Wall Kyrie Irving nets Michael Beasley Washington Wizards
Episode 181: The Fraudulence Paradox (David Foster Wallace's "Good Old Neon")

Very Bad Wizards

2:09:01 hr | 9 months ago

Episode 181: The Fraudulence Paradox (David Foster Wallace's "Good Old Neon")

"Very bad wizards is a podcast with philosopher. My Dad and psychologist Dave Fusaro having an informal discussion about issues in science and ethics. Please note the discussion contains bad words that I'm not allowed to say and knowing my dad. Some very inappropriate jokes. Nobody nobody knows what's going to happen. Anybody besides the fall on rag of going old The plan the whole reason you want. They can have very very good man just to say wisit. Welcome to very bad wizards anti-hitler Summers from the University of Houston Dave. The Oscar. Nominations funds were announced. Recently and some people are saying that Greta Gerwig was snubbed. Not Getting a best director nomination for little women. Do you think the Academy Adamy should have a separate award for best female director. This is it's like asking you about politics. I know at first I was like great. Great Okay Little Women. I know that that's it's a movie and I I read the book. Yeah and for they should have one for black directors and one or AH black women directors and one gay Black Women Directors Gay Durham Best Gay gator. Though it'd be but you have to come out you have to be out like because they're not closeted Director this this closeted actor for Tom Cruise. You know I can. There is some sort of canonical set of supporting actor. Her best actor in a leading role. And then there's a ton of shit that like they always be. Somebody always complains that that it's either too long or that. Some category got snubbed. First of all no matter like it could be an hour and you wouldn't watch it number one. I used used to watch it. Okay let me just before we move on. You made a joke a joke although offensive to people about like why. We shouldn't didn't have best female director. Why doesn't your reasoning? And you love to be consistent. Apply to actor and actress. Yeah well you don't know that it does because you didn't ask me about what does it do. You just be best actor in the inclusive sense that will be women and I I actually have never thought about this. And now that we use the term actor to refer to both men and women then I say I say Yes yes go ahead nominate ten people and give us. It's just the best overall actor. I actually actually think that would be fine. I mean I I would rather see more or awards given Four different kinds of of movies. Maybe like like the way the Golden Globes CBS separates out comedic and drama. Yeah and then and then collapsed collapsed. Gender I mean what's going to happen when you know some non in binary actor and I'm like I'm not even joking right now. What are they gonNA do? It's inevitable right. So at some point at some point somebody's but he's going to be non binary and play a role that's like very powerful. Yeah so so. So you're going to embrace the Reductio as I mean. It's not like ten tennis right like you know where where even Serena Williams admit it's harder to defeat the top. So here's the if there is a principal distinction between doing this for director and actor. It is that Really in in little women for example you need women to play it. You can't have Leonardo di Caprio as one of the little women. You can't broke or like Robert Robert Pattinson or something like that James Garfield ex-president sorry Andrew Garfield can earn President Lung Disease Andrew Garfield field playing the Joe March or whatever and little women but so why does that mean that we should have separate categories for for their performance. Well because you can do that for director the same director can direct you know like if you have a screenplay a woman and a man can direct at that strike screenplay. Do you really think a woman could have directed like rocky. No Yeah Yeah I see. You're you're seeing my principal Dennis and and taking me one step once that for well. I'm just saying that. There is a distinction in and as a philosopher I I you search obsessed with distinctions and dry legends nets. I've dedicated my career to that. Thank I can see that but to to further reduce the. Oh you're rid. Toy ducked wasn't expecting that. Yeah like I Like I take it. There are there are categories that you could draw right like an old person. Can't play young person role. I mean I guess now with the Irishman you can do that but suppose suppose that their technology wearing there. I don't you know like a black person person can't play the role of a white person in some autobiographical some bio-pic like unless they were in white hosts like Eddie Murphy in that not one certain lifestyle so there are a lot of things that can't be played by actor is given certain constraints in Asia upstairs. Landlord can't be. He played by like Mickey Rooney. That I feel like that everybody should know. Oh that but just for the listeners. Don't know watch breakfast. I watched breakfast at Tiffany's like really late in life and and I thought Oh what's this classic classic movie all about couldn't fucking once again if you don't stop it up on a graph right this the can you imagine if that came out today. Oh my God oh you know. There's a whole discussion to be had there. About what roles you are an art allowed to play and we've had that with your like bigoted stance against Scarlett Johansson. Mine in favor of scar insane. I just I don't think sh- her last name is pronounced Johansen. Yeah sorry let's save this talk for. Maybe we'll do an you know. Our annual Oscar special alive WANNA livestream periscope. Is that still thing. So they just feel like all. The technical categories have definitely gotten snubbed. I WANNA I WANNA know like Best Foley like that's the kind of Shit they're really turns me on Actual Foley I think it's Eddie Murphy. So we aren't going to stray that far from movies please write first segment. We're GONNA talk about four things four pieces of pop culture that we loved from last year or at least really liked. I guess you couldn't find four things that you loved your love. Love is a strong work. It is a strong word and then one thing we hate so far things we loved one thing we hated from two thousand nineteen and in the second segment. We are going to Talk about David Foster Wallace's short story good old neon. We put out a call on twitter asking people for recommendations. Neither of US are a big David Foster Wallace fanatics. Or even I don't certainly not connoisseurs stories. Yeah we got a ton of great recommendations on twitter. Instagram good old neon was one probably the the most recommended of any of them so I think clearly the most recommended from at least my eyeballing. Yeah so we did it. We've read it and we will. We were a little. I don't know I feel a little trepidation about discussing it but yeah me too. I feel like it's one of those key. Well I used to feel this way about movies where I'm like you know who am I am not a critic And then clearly like I got over that but for something like literature of this like I definitely. I'm like man I'm like a total new. 'B it's not easy. Like four has right quick. The Fan devotion to David Foster Wallace and the things that people will know about the story about him about its other work that we won't is the writing. Yeah that'll be in the second segment. Let's talk about I thought it was actually a really good year for Popular Culture Chur which I define as which I am defining as movies and TV shows my category was was far more inclusive missive of of less easily defined things like including even just events ish kinds of things. But but that's because those were the things that I had the most feelings about but I I was wondering if you're going to force a definition of the pop part yeah of of the culture and I also okay so I also really laughed because we're getting up there in years and I'm like we have daughters who approximately the same age and the thought when I put myself in like took the perspective of my daughter of me talking about pop culture. I feel so alienated from anything. That is truly pop like for large segments of the population. I I struggled. Well they all just watch friends right now. Friends the office so well friends got removed from Netflix. Which I know my daughter was like even though she doesn't really like it it's like they're forced their? They're kind of peer pressured into watching this show about like New York inch makes more sense. Maybe for Bella than for all these kids air in Houston Houston doesn't make sense for either. It's like a weird. It's like a weird like attempt at thickness Algebra. I guess for it was like late. Eighties early nineties New York. If you're like no like to go into the to the early we ought. I think he'd even went out. Maybe I'm thinking but it is. It is a funny you sort of. It's like the equivalent of of like like fashion like ninety s fashion coming back but anyway yeah. I'm far from like I don't have any tick tock in my top okay let me just get. I don't WanNa do. I actually don't have any ties I had this was going to say you're going to be four. Three and then a category with five five way I had a I had like original conception was a four way tie for number four three way tie in for number knbr three to eight or I would have hung done the equivalent of hanging up the phone on skype like heart but so given that. I'm I'm not GonNa do that and I honestly just have one for each. Let me just say one. Like the honorable mentioned category. which is there were four movies from last year and it was an? It's just a fantastic movie year last year. The Best Longtime Probably Fifteen or twenty years and and it's a bold state and there were four movies that I was so excited to see once upon a time in Hollywood Quentin Tarantino's movie parasite site by Bong. Jun Ho the director of South Korean director. Who I love and I've seen all of his movies? Martin Scorsese's the Irishman and and the SAFDIE brothers movie uncut gems with Adam Sandler and there was so much hype tons of good critical a buzz and they're all great. They're all just fantastic movies. And I haven't heard that much about uncut gems but but it's good to cut gems is great great. You will like it. It is about the diamond district This like Jewish Adam Sandler play middle aged. Jewish guy in the diamond district breakthroughs. A like a gambler. Kevin Garnett gives what I think is uncontroversial the best performance by an athlete in any move. He's the Celtics. Do you think Goi could've played Adam Sandler's role and if not do you think there should be a separate category for the Julia List Actors. Julie actor well you can see Julia at all so I I know I would have been deeply offended if they had had somebody not Jewish playing. I mean it's uncut I didn't think of that there. You go all right so I got that out of the way now. I have one for arrest them. Wait so so none of those four movies made your top four. Are you saying that this is one this is like this is not an honorable mention. This one of your four. Are you just cheating straight up like that. I did not put them on my list because I think most people know most of our listeners has how many of those movies have you seen and I have seen the the one time in Hollywood and what else little women. What was it in how little woman I haven't seen? I haven't. I have not seen parasite I have not seen uncut JANSA. What was the irony Irishman? No I have not seen the argument that I keep wanting to watch and then I see the run time every time. I see it on Netflix. And it's like it's like half a day half a day's worth of stuff to watch on. Hey I this is the thing that frustrates me about. Not just you but most people. There's nothing better than watching that movie and and I'm saving it. I'm saving it. I'm edging. I'm Scorsese edging myself for the right moment like I like it. Yeah I'm busy. I don't know what you do with your like. I have shit going on left and right I have just so much so much fun. It's hard to find three three and a half. Yeah and I don't want to interrupt it right well but you can watch it in two days. I think that's how I watch. We watched it over Thanksgiving. The whole family family watched it and we were. It's beautiful it's you. You have that advantage where you like. Your daughter likes films like My. My daughter won't like just won't watch movies with me. She just doesn't care she's just like actually just watching. TV shows. And so every time. I want like I would love to sit down with my family and watch a good film but but like they you know they won't do my daughter just doesn't she doesn't care so I wanna find things that they'll watch so I end up like totally just watching. TV shows as as a sacrifice to the to the sanctity of my family unit. Well if you ever have another kid you have to start young with them. That's what my mom did with me. And that's what I've done with Elisa and you build it into their just their yeah The the core of their being and you know allies love love. Elisa has seen. Actually she hasn't seen uncut gems but she's seen all the other ones in some cases multiple multiple times and she loves and she loves them and that's what I I will say. I agree that you have to start early and I will say that Something that doesn't come up often is that I am a lover of music in a way that I've shared with my daughter. So yes so that's where we bond. And like you know you sorta you have to make sorta just take what you can. And that's where I'm a Philistine. When it comes to music yeah you really are and I don't push it on? You know you notice. I don't I don't judge you. I wish you could push it on me. Shooting push push a going all right. Yes starting segments all right so that was that was neither your number one New Orleans. But why don't you give us. Do you want me to go I I. I just didn't get any I'll go. I'll go with This again this is not a movie or a TV show show but it's related to a TV show. It is just baby Yoda so the mandal. Laurean Ah You could if you were forcing you to put TV shows like it's it's not that it's the greatest TV show ever. It's that as a pop culture thing. The fact that good star wars actually really came out on on TV as a medium. That's actually it's like you might actually like it. It's like A. It's like a Western. But it's like how star wars ought ought to be and then maybe it is just so fucking cue and it's in. He just turned into a meal or or she or whatever gender. Yoda's are and and every time. Am I see just a little baby. Yoda's is just have warm fuzzies in my in my heart and And I'm glad that that exists and that there's some good star wars on on TV. That is as pop culture as it gets all right so our number four is our respective number for his really Kinda defines the difference between us your his baby. Mine is Well it's a French film by French director. Blair who's a big name with hardcore Santa Files. This is actually the only movie of his that I've seen but it's called high highlife life and it stars Robert Patents and and also Juliette but noche. That's this is a popular culture pick. Yes it's on Amazon Don Prime for free and and and it's got like a star like heartthrob I don't know I. I think he was on twilight or something. Robert Pattinson the twilight series. And he's been in a bunch of US actually safdie brothers. There's movie called good time which is great but for this movie. The premise is pretty simple. Space movie and a group of prisoners are sent ended up to space as part of some sort of reproduction experiment. It's not exactly clear. What they experiment is trying to to achieve? You've but they're trying to see the extent that people can reproduce in in space and I guess it works to some. What's the name of the movie highlife? Claire Denney When the movie starts Robert Patents and has just alone on the ship with his infant daughter? But then we get most of the movie are is this long extended flashbacks of the time on the ship with the other prisoners and also Juliette Ben Noche. WHO's in charge of the experiment? And it's very surreal unreal movie it's beautiful filmmaking. And it has one of the most fucked up masturbation scenes that you'll ever see in your life. That's a good top five like best. Masturbation scenes are most fucked up. He's got yeah. This would definitely it so Juliet Banos goes into the faulk box. That's all I'll say about it because then that's I and I've probably said too much just then but now it's hot Yeah it's really good I I recommend it is. I think if you aren't familiar with this director's work it makes you want to pursue more. You've cemented your status superior and and Hoity toity when we discuss fraud being a fraud in the next segment. We'll get back to. I'm a man of the people. People clearly baby. Yoda Yoda I will is your next one avengers endgame. You know that was that was that was in my four way tie Area this may be you know. This may be is would be considered art by you. You but the watchmen. TV show. I think that is For for various reasons like this. We didn't talk about this but this list to me. She isn't necessarily what I think is the best of the year although watchmen would certainly be up there with the best of the year but there is something about the the fact that they made a TV. Show about watchmen that there were these interesting Damon. Lindelof is the show runner who Who could have really fucked it up that it's based on source material by an author who really abhors the thought of anybody adapting his source I material and it brings up the interesting issues ethical issues? And maybe even legal issues if you're into that kind of thing but and you're if you're not into as a legal file as illegal file so all of that sort of the just the the the property the watchmen and the things that his there was actual DC comics did Iran of sort of after the watchman c'mon like sequels in their comics. That just were nothing compared to two I think what Lindelof did his work is. It's it's it's people have disrupted buses just real devoted fan fiction. It's it's like truly the the work of somebody who who took the ideas and and put their own spin on it and there's just a lot of good political shit about like race relations in America that he weaved in there with Out The heavy handedness that I've seen on some shows that that that sort of on the nose. Kind of Bull Shitty like knickknack give a speech about equality or whatever. He didn't go there and so I love him for that. Yeah I I'm almost through about three quarters of the way through the graphic novel which you generously sent me and when I'm done with that I will watch the show all right. My number three is another another movie. Scrape movie here. It's your number two. Are you including the four movies. I'm starting over one. Oh I'm sorry yeah. It is another under the radar movie like highlife. But it's not as Hoity toity. I don't think it is a movie called under the Silver Over Lake by David Robert Mitchell. this is also available for free on Amazon Prime. It barely got a theatrical release. You would like this. It is L. A.. Noir trippy conspiracy kind of thriller. But it is paranoid conspiracy thriller that kind of Genre Endre like an already it. Stars Andrew Garfield Not James Garfield Garfield. and IT'S A IT'S A. It's a cross between the long goodbye Chinatown Mulholland drive. Drive the big Lebowski with with some eyes wide shut in there to kind of the conspiracy part of it and how how far up it goes and it has deliberate. Oh modulars install those movies. It's just fun to watch. It's it's it's long so you have to carve out some time. I know that might be a barrier for you. But it's it's funny any it's weird and I think you could go down rabbit holes trying to piece the mystery together and I think there is a big red at community already building about it but but you don't have to do that at all to appreciate the movie it's fun it's definitely. I think one where you might wanna take like an edible if you have them available and it will be even greater. There's a scene in. It involves music that I think you will really like a lot. I could see you you become. I could see you really finding that seem to be one of your favorite scenes of all time. It's just a totally enjoyable at every level to watch Andrew Garfield by the way underrated Spiderman. I the only spider man that I really know is the one from Spicer the sixties TV shows when you were a kid electric company no. I really liked spider verse that one. That was just fucking awesome. Let's take a quick break and thank hellofresh for sponsoring this episode. Very Bad Wizards get mouth-watering seasonal recipes and premeasured ingredients delivered right to your door with hellofresh. Hellofresh has some pretty delicious recipes. They have a bunch of vegetarian recipes. That I've been getting delivered every week and I actually have. I think been eating better. You can get low cal recipes. They save time and stress. I'll tell you now it's not like I still take a long on time to make. My hellofresh is long considering how much time I want But what it does save is grocery store shopping. Yes which I actually hate. I just don't like it that getting the recipes with all of the food ingredients delivered to your door and if it takes thirty forty fifty minutes to cook it i. I'm fine with that. Yeah when I go to the store I there's like two types of me in the store one I'm listening to a podcast and and I'm not really focused so I could take like an hour and a half in the in the store wondering which is like three or four times and just spacing out and then there's the where I go and it's a mall business and I'm focused but then I still miss half the things on my list so I love fresh. It's just take take that out of the the the weekend chores flow. Fresh is flexible. And it fits your lifestyle. You can add extra her meals or lunches to your weekly order to know that or thrown yummy sides and desserts like garlic bread and cookie dough. You can easily change your delivery days or we're food preferences and skip a week whenever you need hellofresh is now starting from five dollars and sixty six cents per serving irving that makes it. America's best value meal kit part about skipping meals. I was away for two weeks and all. Oh I did was go to the APP and just Click X.. On the two dates that is going to be a way and when I came back it just resumed the delivery as as normal. So there's actually really convenient so thank you to hellofresh go if you want to get the discount that they are offering listeners. Very bad wizards go to hellofresh. Hello fresh dot com slash berry bad wizards ten and use code. Very bad wizards. Ten during hellofresh is New Year's sale for ten free meals including including shipping. That's hellofresh dot com slash berry bad wizards ten and use code. Very bad wizards tend to get ten free meals. We'd like to thank hellofresh rush for sponsoring this episode of very bad was all right so Here here I go with my nebulous mind nebulous items in this list because neither film nora an RTD show not even a moment really It is just sort sort of some people have referred to it as a renaissance for this for this actor but just the success of Keanu Reeves and the embracing embracing of loved that the Internet has given him. It is one of my favorite things of the year. I don't know if you've noticed. All of the Internet. Love like the way that eyebrows read it. There is a serious fan devotion to this man that clearly supersedes any of the actual will praise. He should deserve as an actor. Because like let's let's be honest I mean he is Keanu Donna Reeves in everything John Wick three. The John. Wig Series is great He actually so wait so I'm not sure I'm following. Ns You are saying that your number three or number two or whatever is though love that Kiono reeves is getting on the Internet on read it or whatever ever it's hard it's hard to describe because as a more abstract thinker than you this is not a singular product. But what if you just Google for Kiana Reeves. You'll see. There's just incredible this year. Just an incredible outpouring pouring of admiration for Keanu that has led to In articles and memes and stories being written about him because has he such a for one. He's such a good guy so I'll just giving you some examples. We've entered the golden age of Keanu reeves the Renaissance Jonah Reeves. CANNERIES is too good for this world from the New Yorker. Cool things. You'd probably didn't know about honorees. Keanu reeves wins the Internet. There is a he's he's getting I think love impart because is he seems to be such a good person. So they're all these stories of of moments in which Kiana has gone out of his way to help complete strangers. Who had no idea that that it was keener? He'll just just like you know. pull up in his motorcycle and help out a motorist who is stuck and and the way that that this just sort of the Keanu Love hit hit the Internet in two thousand nineteen is just made for for warm fuzzy for me like all of the stories that you read about him on the Internet. What what one of the things that he even like just does that just shows that what a guy is? It's like when he takes pictures with women he clearly like goes out of his way. Not to be touching coaching them. Like Hell Shit show hands like he's he's just like being very respectful so so yeah. It's it's just the KEANU renaissance. This is. This is a pop culture. Certainly certainly pop culture In a way that the French aren't I I like I don't even know what to say to that one. I thought I'll just move on that's I like them. Fine I guess like I like John Correct but you know in a year where it was the best movie here. In the last ten or fifteen years I wouldn't put like Internet love for Kiana Reeves as one of my favorite things Well see now. You're trying to make the list for me which is not what this is all about. Now this is your the movie Guy. Guide let me be the Internet guy. All right you're the Internet. Your French films are as puzzling as Mike. Yana Renaissance pick all right. I have a good number two to. We'll see we'll see about that taste. Bad taste out of The listeners mouths. Surely you'll this is great. This is it's a contrast you know it's like this is good radio. It is midsummer the movie kind of horror movie. But also a break-up movie movie by the Director Ari Astor who did Hereditary last year this is great. Holy Shit I love this movie. We just saw it again last night and it's a great re-watch to it is about a young woman. Florence pugh Hugh Florence Pew also in Little Women She's going to be a big star like you can tell from this movie that she's going to be a big star. She's in a bad relationship. She tags along with her boyfriend's Grad student friends and her boyfriend on A. They're like Grad. Add students in anthropology and there are going on a trip to a remote village in Sweden. I'm not going to give any of the plot. The less you know. Oh about this movie the better so I'm not gonNA talk about the plot at all. I am just going to say that. It's genuinely scary. It is ridiculously well-made made avoided it because I tend to avoid things that are horror movies like don't usually like them unless somebody says they're also watch with nicky. I think you'll like it. It's also very funny and and and it has probably the funniest and definitely another fucked up the but it's an actual sexy not a masturbation scene but it is In my the only person masturbating was you know definitely not and if you had if you saw it you wouldn't like you would see you. Yeah that's clearly not case I. I saw for the first time in the theater with my daughter which is already uncomfortable If Masturbation Association would be really and then I said to her apparently she told me this when we watched it again. This is what sex is really like During during this scene in their win we've watched it the first time and Again if you haven't seen it but if you if you have seen it you will i. I think that's pretty funny. I was proud of myself for having said that. Anyway Mid Somare. It's great. It's funny it's scary. It's just it's even though. I think he got a bit of a release. It is an underrated movie from last year. My final in my list of disappointments to you. A A is the that revenge of the joker film so we talked about the joker film and and in all of the fucking like stupid shit that was written about it. Yeah I was so deeply satisfying to me is that that it became the first rated film to pass surpass a billion dollars in revenue and then even though this isn't officially part of Twenty Nineteen in Phoenix getting getting love from the academy just to talk as a whole getting love from the joker as a whole getting getting a ton of love so what I think is one of the best comic book films to be made got the the love that it it justly deserved served and more importantly my optimism and my my sort of happiness that that that batch of stupid critics do not in in fact speak for the majority of people not that I thought that they did but this was a clear. Fuck you to all of the the naysayers this good movie so this is GonNa disappoint you but I did see it recently and as I was underwhelmed by it and in a weird way I didn't think it was obviously yeah I didn't think it was a rallying cry for in cells or I thought he was really good but a little I a little inconsistent stint like it was it was never fully. It was very hard to pin down. What the what kind of character he was and and then I get that? That's part of the joker door jokers allure. I I just. I don't even know I 'cause like really. This is the thing that a people were so angry about about and be that has made a billion dollars worldwide. I mean at some ways. It's kind of amazing because it's just a movie about a really. Oh you mentally ill guy living in a world. That doesn't care about him. Yeah so so do I mean it's it's I think not entirely unfair to to be underwhelmed given the amount of attention that it got but also. Oh it's portrayal of of a particular incarnation of a comic book. Joker I think was was great and I think if you don't if you're not looking for for that then it's obviously not gonNA float your boat that much but I'm I'm intrigued by the inconsistency that you think of of walking Phoenix's performance because he like there were times where he just seemed like. He was so damaged that he could barely put a sentence together. Yeah there and other times and then like thirty seconds later he'll be kinda slick and almost now. Maybe that's there's there's definitely a lot that you could think is is going on in his mind. It's very much told from his perspective but even that was not if if it's told from his perspective than the part the Times where he seems so damaged and unable to have even a remotely normal conversation with another person. I don't know the position between that. And I I forget the actual scene but I was like wait. How did he just go from that to? Oh this is kind of a slick guy knows what to say and I about. What's in your time but I think that that there is a lot that's supposed to be? Well there's one clear set of interactions. That's that's in his own mind But I never saw. I don't know what you're referring to is the parts where he can't even speak. I don't know I don't want to. I don't have a strong opinion about it. I thought like I thought he was. He was great for the most part physically kind of amazing performance. And this is what I want to emphasize that also my my pick again in my more nebulous categories is. It's not because I think it's the best movie of the year but rather just the the resolution of all of that like fizzled. His old into both nothing politically in that sense of controversy but also just I was happy for the filmmaker. Yeah now even the people who don't love the movie take steps to distance themselves from their like I. It's not that I don't like it because it's like a insult propaganda. Ganda it is because you know scores. kind of poor Scorsese ripoff. For whatever I you know I also had very like. I was very concerned that it was going to be a terrible movie so so when I saw it I was I was like happy at it wasn't yeah no it's definitely not terrible like it's it's good. I would even say good like almost good kind of feeling from it like and I wanted to be better but yeah I'm I'm happy. Happy for sure the like I'm totally on board that that whole controversy this is also true I think of once upon a time in Hollywood. Like whatever. Annoying annoying controversies. There were well. Actually I'm going to save what I have to say. All right we gotta go. Let's let's let's let's move so my number one all right last year. I haven't done any tea. It's been all movies but It was also a good year for TV and one of my three favorite TV TV shows along with fleabag like everybody else. Everyone loved that and soda. I superior that almost made my list and dark Obviously a but there was a sh- show by a guy named Sam 's mail which gave us just a fantastic season of television. Do you know what show I'm talking about like unless you're not talking about Mr of are you talking about Mister Robot. I'm not yeah I know he had that other homecoming. No I haven't seen it really. You're putting that above Mr Robots. Yes and I don't like it's not even that hard a decision because I I loved homecoming and I didn't have. I didn't have the ambivalence that I felt about the last season. Mister robot even though I overall like that right and we're not gonNA talk about like maybe at some other point. We'll talk about the finale. And what we think of it but this show homecoming. It is stars Julia. Roberts birt's Stefan James Bobby Cana- val who I missed from Mister robot and Shea Wagon. It's like another kind of conspiracy I see thriller. And it's based on a podcast. Where's our fucking? TV show directed by Sam Esmail. You know we're working or clearly early. I mean we must be honest radars. I think anyway the podcast and also the show Was Created Ed same as mail directed all the episodes. And it's it's it's brilliantly directed but created by Michael Bloomberg and ally. Horowitz Horowitz Horowitz. Who by the way edited the first very bad wizard book of interviews when he worked for McSweeney? He's so you're just accept that we didn't like we ended up not agreeing on at. Its and I think he probably hates me. You Burn Bridges yes. It's a really is a release amazing that we have your podcast relationships but it's a testament to the quality of the show that I still will put as my favorite things. It's also a half an hour. You would like that aspect aspect of it. It's like the Anti Irishman. Each episode is half an hour there. I think there's eight or ten of them so you can be done with them really quick. It's a fun shelf off and it is. It's got like all the Good Sam 's mail directing touches. I'm not a huge fan of Julia Roberts but I'll put up. She's good in this. I on you and I have a problem with her in this. All right thanks for one. Yeah I only have one thing that I like. That's what we were supposed. Busted him back. I understand I have one thing that I hated that I love again isn't a TV show or movie but it's a an thing and it's I don't know if you'll understand the feelings that this caused me but Konya West decided to go Christian and put out this like Gospel Album and tell the world about Jesus and for so many reasons some of which are not just. It's not kind of fault. I think that the world is is somehow just observing. Hit a man in in the midst of mental illness and still playing along with it but his are we still talking about them. No but you might as well. I don't know I don't even have that much to say about it. But that that he in like from one when we turn it was like talking about you know fucking supermodels with bleach astles and and then talking about how. He's changed as a Christian and then putting out a gospel album is just sad to me and it's just if if it's a play for for album sales it's sad if it's genuine it's sad it's a train wreck I feel bad for the guy but it's just it's such a otherwise controversial by I. I don't think anybody who who is a fan of hip hop music would argue with the fact that he is one of the greatest hip hop producers of all time. It's sad to see him. Go this away like I wish he would just shut up and get help. Go back to the bleached assholes go back to the least privileged. Yeah I didn't like that All right I'm sorry to hear that all right. Here's the thing I hated dead so this thing managed to combine two seemingly unrelated things that I deeply dislike The first is critics who force their political agenda into their analyses of art. So we talked about this with in the context of joker. So that's the first thing. The second is the utterly inappropriate use of data or empirical investigation to assess something way eighty two complex and messy for that data to tell us anything real so both these things like had sex and had a baby and that baby was this Time magazine article. We counted every line in every Quentin Tarantino film to see how often women talk. Oh so this was back in. I didn't even know about this It is one of the more annoying things that you know from. From the last ten years from the decades this would be the most like annoying thing of the decade from pop. Who You you don't think that can be countered is what you're saying? The reason this exists is there was that period in the summer where there were a small minority of critics including Richard Brody again complaining about Quentin Tarantino's Misogyny or sexism and then a bunch of other people saying look this is a guy who's and and there's not many filmmakers like this are not many male film filmmakers like this. He's done a bunch of movies with very strong female central characters and so so they decided to count every line and every Quentin Tarantino film to see like what's the ratio of women to men talking in his movies movies and they decided to just count the lines and colitis not even controlling for a number of characters or anything like that no in fact they left off death proof because that's like almost entirely women talking. They left it off at first with the excuse that well you know. That's that was just a half of movie along with Robert Rodriguez arrived from grind house. But yeah and then one of the authors tweeted you did how and he was like proud about it how pissed off people in the theater where. CMU using his cell phone to write down the lines and once upon a time in Hollywood because it was only at home. I lost my mind. Not Alone Oh my God if I have been in that movie in this got all my God ought to the larger film world's credit. The article was roundly mocked and condemned even by critics that that some people would call it kind of woke. So it's not this wasn't like something that people celebrated aside from some twitter are people but it was the thing I hated in pop culture. The most last I will I will go on a limited agree with you about how that's at least. I don't think that it's unquantifiable like the to to make a claim of misogyny but that's this shitty way to do it it's just terrible that's like that's like the most the most basic in all the negative sense of that way to attack our problem. What were the numbers by the way I don't on have but in Jackie Brown for example? Apparently men talk more than women. But if anybody WHO's a Jackie Brown fan will know that. That movie is centrally about Pam grier and and has also just an awesome performance by bridget Fonda. Ronda and that's that's Deniro performance I can get Bo man so given them and it's not as it's not that obvious like how Oh goody is the first time you see it but every well it's because it looks like he could be actually doing terrible right. It looks like it could be a really poor performance from an amateur totally. But you know I'll put this like like my mom. They're the de Niro. And Pacino often get lumped together. Because obviously because they've been in very similar movies there is no way Pacino could ever pull off any performance. Yeah absolutely that's exactly right longest segment ever all right. We'll be back talk about David Foster Wallace's story good old neon this episode very bad wizard is also brought to you by give well dot org again as we always say one of our favorite sponsors answers because they just do so much good in the world so Tamra last night we had frenemy of the podcast Shaun Nichols the philosopher and his girlfriend friend Rochester also a philosopher over to dinner last night and Nikki also philosopher and the four of US got into an argument and the argument was about how best to communicate to another person that they should be donating their money to ineffective. 'cause do you really say like well. I'm sorry buddy but your money could be you better used for another charity so we actually got into a heated argument about that. But what what none of us disagreed about was that it would be the right thing to do to go out of your way to find the most effective charity to give your money to and this is one of the reasons that I like doing. Give well ads. Because is I think this is a great for them to just say. Hey look you can donate to whomever you want. Give money to whomever you want. But if you have that extra money maybe give some of it to one of the more effective charities. I think that it is my my approach to give well is like it. I use it. I have donated to it now. L. A. COUPLE OF TIMES Doesn't mean it's I will won't give money to other things which I know is an doing necessarily. The greatest is good for the greatest number. But I love having an option where I can do that because clearly. Some of my charitable forgiving should be towards the most effective way of reducing suffering right. And like like we've said before. I think that's a no brainer. And and I yeah I think give well has noticed that. This is a good effective way of communicating to people that donating some of your charitable money to ineffective because is a good thing because they've asked us to give our listeners. 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There are a bunch of bonus episodes available Abo- and You can also at one level vote on a topic that we will choose For listeners listener selected our patron selected episode. This was definitely one that although it didn't win It was has suggested and was a close second. This David Foster Wallace episode. And you know even just getting ideas about what story or essay to to do the episode on that all came from twitter and from instagram. And so all the way kids in which you interact with us is indispensable. It is crucial for the show. And it makes us better and we couldn't couldn't be more grateful so thank you all right so as Sandler said this was. We've had people asking us to do a David Foster Wallace for awhile while And as we mentioned sort of in the beginning Maybe it's just a bit outside of our comfort zone because neither of US had read very much Foster walls but I liked liked what I read and the voice. The Voice of the listeners was strong and so We we decided to bite the bullet and go ahead and do story So this is all to say please. We apologize we butcher. If if there's some sort of standard interpretation of David Foster Wallace that we're have no idea about and then we're just ignorant so yeah good on the on the story that we are going to discuss estate so good on. NEON is a short story was originally published in two thousand one in a journal called conjunctions but then it got collected into a set of short stories freeze for a collection called oblivion and I think my understanding is that many have argued. This story Neon is is not just the best of the bunch of stories in oblivion but also one of his best short stories released most powerful or impactful short stories in. That may be in part because of what it's about which we'll get to in a second but in a nutshell. The story is told from the perspective of a guy named. I'm Neil. He's a twenty one twenty. Nine year old Yuppie. I don't even know if we use that. Term Still Yuppie young urban professionals who is it's stream of stream of consciousness. He is telling us about his life. He's in he's currently in therapy and he is distraught. Yeah he's telling us from the perspective of having already killed himself right. Yeah yeah he is he is he keeps hinting to the fact that he's already debt and the way that he's telling us about how he got there. There is essentially a life story. It's it's meandering a bit but I think on purpose a story about how he considers himself his life his personality. He considers himself a fraud so to be completely inauthentic sees himself as he can't let go of the idea that everything that he's done or said ever since he was a child like their earliest story of him being A toddler Everything was this sort of pathetic attempt at getting other people to like him or to think to think highly of him that his primary motivation has been not to do things because he wants to do them but slowly over time just falling into only doing things for the sake of appearances so he he deeply suspect well. He's convinced that he's a fraud. And this leads to him taking his own life by crashing his car and the way in which we're told old work we're taking through his journey of of. I don't know if there's a whole lot of insight but at least attempts at gaining insight through the therapeutic process and so we the one other character that we learn anything Really deeply about is his therapist. Who is sort of a middle-aged man who is turns out also also dead with him and they've had conversations in the afterlife but but perhaps a mediocre therapist to him who himself golf then dies of candidate who is fond of? He's fond of. Yeah it's a funny mix of fondness. I think it starts off his fondness and then all almost almost gets to some sort of antipathy At times but and also condescend like the fondness is kind of dripping with condescension but yeah and and then it becomes i. I didn't see antipathy as much as disappointment. Like maybe had his hopes Sir that the therapist could help him understand something and then coming to realize is or at least think that now. The therapist couldn't help him antipathy. Maybe isn't the right word because one of the things that that that seems to be true true of this character is that his feelings for people or at least the way that he reports them aren't strong either way. Yeah so so. It's not that he hates his therapist. It's that I I think. Disappointed is the right word but it's it's a devoid of too much emotion. It's just that like he had like a tiny bit of hope that this therapist would actually be able to to cure him of this thought that he was a fraud but realized quickly that that no he was. Just stringing the therapist along Just in the same way that everybody else along. Yeah I. It's hard to know how to talk about because it has all kind of a twist at the end that I think we're going to talk a lot about But I mean the basic setup of this is a story told By a man who has already died by suicide in his car and who is aware that sounds impossible that he could be narrating the story given that he's already dead. And as this kind of Holden caufield like Catcher Orion kind of style where it really involves the reader and brings the reader in very conversational way. Yeah Yeah and the theme of authenticity and it has a lot of underground man kind of a lot of underground Yeah and I don't know like actually let's start with the therapy happy so I'm someone who has never been to therapy. I have not done that. I have you done therapy. I don't know if we've ever talked about. Why am I know we've never talked about it but I'm not surprised temblor? I'm not surprised so I did. Some this is has. This is as close to personal as I ever get Talking about personal I did therapy for once. I realized that my marriage was over like we had already decided to to end the marriage and so we basically went to couples therapy In order to be able to to Navigate the the split up in a way we had a young infant daughter and that was very helpful. And then I tried go on my own and this is where so a lot of this story. I really can't relate to like we can get to this the way that he is. I I like super self involved in. I think pretty narcissistic but the part that he's not sure whether he is manipulating the therapist yes to have a particular view of him of Neil Is something that I couldn't get out of my head either that it felt like it might be a game name where I was trying to get the therapist to believe things about me that I wanted him to believe even when they were bad things like like the character. Neil does so like thank you know He. He says that he would offer up. Like like false. Confessions to make himself sympathetic. That kind of thing that so that I could relate to that was my very limited experience with with only one therapist but yeah so I was. I was thinking that that seems like something that that I would do. Like I would have a hard time. Separating Lake me actually talking and me trying to create this impression crashed in the therapists almost like a little cat and mouse game because it is. It's built to the therapeutic experiences so much of it it. is you decide what you're going to tell to this person that you you are from scratch building up of you of you that you are trying to give to the therapist and I I take that in good therapy you get past this but but it is very much like a situation that's made probably Li like specifically Praise on this fear that you are that we are nothing the all of what we are nothing but what we're trying to convince other people that we are. Yeah and that's maybe the biggest theme in this whole story and I think I don't know I can relate to. This is to some extent being trapped in your own head constantly to the point where you don't know what's real and what is a front and and you can't separate who you are from who you're trying to appear to be to other people or the impression you're trying to make which itself the impression impression that you're trying to make a sort of constructed by the popular culture of or drama or theater or fiction or whatever and so you really we have this sense of there's no actual me here. I feel this sometimes. Where again at a more micro scale L.? You do sometimes say things in a way that you know the person is going to be impressed like self deprecating deprecating remarks. That you know are actually GonNa make the person find you more likable or something. Like that. Teaching is a bit like this. I was going to say you know I mean there is a way in in which like and I. I assume this is probably the case in a lot of professions in which have to interact with people on a on a regular basis. But yeah you're clearly presenting some idea of yourself when you're teaching in your lecturing and that persona like is it feels like persona and then that carrot can carry over when you're meeting in with students right so like a large part of IFM find it exhausting after a day of of teaching and then long meetings with students that I come home and I feel like I've been put like playing the role of Dude Pizarro professor of Psychology And that now like I can catch wjr can shut it a little bit but at the same time you I I also feel this kind of. I'm actually trying to be who I am at the same time even even while like I try to be real I try to be who I am. I try to live my actual what I think of as my actual personality shine through and the teach in the teaching and meeting with students but At the same time. I'm also aware that it's creating an impression and I wanNA fine tune that impression and sometimes and then yeah I think it's that tension that can be exhausting to its this this this guy that's taking notes. It's giving you notes on how you're presenting yourself like you're giving theatrical performance and I think this is where teachers so there is that sort of built in audience the answer but I think this is true no matter what kind of job that you have as long as you work with other people and this is not like this. It's not. It's it's not impostor syndrome that he's describing it's nothing it's it's different and in some ways just a more pernicious. It's it's that it's not that he knows who he is and he thinks that he is doesn't belong there. It's that he's not quite sure who who he is if he is anything at all because everything that he is done he is coming to realize has been done solely for the sake of portraying whatever character he's trying trying to portray and it gets you know. This is the part that I enjoyed. It gets Meta right so he points out that that at the problem with viewing yourself as a fraud. Is that if you try harder to not be a fraud than just that trying makes you feel like you're being even more fraud like what does is it mean to try to be authentic or try to be your true self. There's a point where he says like you know whatever that means like the being being your true self so it's a it's it's the kind of thinking that can only lead to or at least the way that it's presented here can only lead to further thoughts that you are not an authentic person. This kind of cycle that keeps building on itself. He calls this like the fraudulence paradox. I think the more of fraud you felt like the harder you tried to convey an impression or likeable image of yourself so that other people wouldn't find out what a hall of fraudulent person you really were logically you would think in. The moment is supposedly intelligent. Nineteen year old became aware of this paradox. He'd stop being a fraud. Just settle for being himself. Whatever that was because he'd figured out out that being a fraud was a vicious in infinite regress that ultimately resulted in being frightened lonely alienated et Cetera? But then that's this is definitely something where awareness of the problem. Not only doesn't make it better but it makes it worse right before you get to the end as you were reading it. Neither of US knew anything about like. How like what the turn that it takes at the very end like? How did you like this character? What were you thinking about this story? Yeah good good. I'm glad you asked because that's all been wanting to say this whole time. Even as I was is giving the summary because I again not knowing right. There's a turn at the end. That changed this but I I found this character to be insufferable. I actually thought you know there is a way you point to the underground The the notes from the underground the man is sort of obsessive focus on is his neuro the levels of neurosis that that He has has in that story They're like this the Seltzer self. And you know this this character is self involved in. It's very much his his obsessing over this idea Nia that he's a fraud but this is different this. This is not so much the kind of neurosis that you see an underground man but like a deep self involvement that I found to be utterly just unlikable and and all I could think was was like fucking. Stop thinking of yourself so much like. There's no like everybody is. We're all playing a role. We play different roles for for different people. That is who we are. There is like you alone isn't any more you than you in front of your loved ones or in front of your kids or students. It's always you like A. He knows thinking that like. That's noser things so I didn't know much about David Foster Wallace's writing so I was thinking to myself like we. This this is like this is taken as deep by by people like this is like the seems like actually even all his talk doc of logical paradoxes and putting things in logic terms. It just reminded me of like the most annoying. No it all like dunning Kruger. Ah Undergrad. Who thinks he has it? All figured out it's sophomoric almost seems like inside is totally sophomoric. And and there's a lot of like it's a long short story and and so a large part of this story is having to deal with somebody obsessing over there shitty self. Yeah I mean I. I don't know if I found him quite as unsympathetic and I thought the writing and the energy carries Harry's this part of the story but he definitely it was it was starting to grate on me and again and the character is very aware that he's starting to grade on you and he he he knows what you're what you think of him before you even think it you know. And that's one of the frustrating aspects of his character very fulfilling yes and and I think all this stuff is it's in that sense. I think kind of a brave story. I think it has to be written by somebody who you have some trust in because you might just give it up like but Because I think that that is built so deeply into the the themes of the story. Is this idea that not only. Are you going to have this impression. John of this character. But he knows you're GonNa have this impression and he's one step ahead of you and he also knows that it's really annoying that he's always one step ahead of you like he was with the therapist therapist and you know and it's like why doesn't he just go volunteer for habitat for humanity or something like that. Get outside and get outside of yourself for one fucking second and and it is interesting that that's one thing that sort of never he never tries. Now that's right so he well it's unclear like he says he has a list of things that he ended up trying so he says as disgusted with myself for always as being such a fraud. But I couldn't seem to help it. Here are some of the various things. I tried. E. S. T. which I don't know what you see is writing a ten speed to Nova Scotia UH and back hypnosis. Cocaine SACRA CERVICAL CHIROPRACTIC joining a charismatic church jogging pro bono work for the AD council. Meditation classes this is the masons analysis the landmark forum. The course in miracles are right. Brain drawing bookshop drawing workshop celibacy collecting and restarted restoring vintage edge corvettes and trying to sleep with a different girl every night for two straight months I racked up a total of thirty six for sixty one and Claudia which I told friends about acting like I was embarrassed but secretly expecting most of them to be impressed. Right and everyone's relate to some of that you know like that so the Clemencia is Like kind of I don't know I was someone who in my like. I thought it was like how old was he when he wrote this. It sounds like somebody somebody in his twenties writing or something like that I. I was hopping from phase to phase But but not long list of things. I guess aside from the Pro Bono. There's not anything that isn't some sort of like self improvement or sell like it's. It's all kind of magnetically focused on himself. Rather than the were the other people and yet this is the very thing that plagues him and you know at a certain point. He comes to the conclusion that he doesn't know how to love and that while at the same time being sickened by the Cliche of it all you know not not knowing how to love that actually leads him to take his own life. When you cheers episode of that makes fun of cat but which is great? But it's not great so maybe relate to a little bit more like I didn't have a youth that that was characterized by a lot of that stuff and that's not not to say that I wasn't searching for who I was but I. It's you know my my problems. Like feel different than the problems that he's describing and the methods that he used to try to get around them. I guess the Matha like the I. I had that phase period of my life where I was in two zero AC and I was in too. You know traveling and drinking a lot. I stayed with that stuck with that one And I and a little too focused on myself not enough focused on other people and and a little kind of proud of myself about certain things but and way too worried about what other people thought of me and very aware of of that and trying to see you know I was also trying to write novels and like I feel like I i. Obviously I'm not I was. I'm not up the one percent of the writer that he is and this is like starting to read it out loud. This is a very well written story. I thought the the the passage that I thought kind of summed up what. His problem was is really perceptive and beautiful. It's when he is writing the suicide note to his sister and he's already worried about the how the suicide side note will look to the sister and he tries to end the suicide note till his sister that he's aware that he's probably trying to make an impression on her. But there's this beautiful little passage in the middle that I caught on the reread. He says when you consider as I did sitting there at the breakfast nook that the reason scenes scenes like this will seem stale manipulative to an audience is that we've already seen so many of them in dramas and yet the reason we've seen so many of them in dramas is that the scenes really are dramatic and compelling and let people communicate very deep complicated emotional realities then are almost impossible to articulate in any other way and at the same time. Still another facet or part of me realizing that from this perspective Dave my own basic problem was that at an early age. I'd somehow chosen to cast my lot with my life's dramas supposed- audience instead of with the drama itself and that seemed to me like to perfectly capture what it was that he's suffering from. He's always focused on the audience and the impression and not the actual drama that is occurring around him. I am all the time. Yeah yeah no that that is you know he. He reaches these moments of insight and that I think is is a nice one mm-hmm and then he dips dips back down into thinking of his audience again. which is a you know? It's it's it's a great way to describe this field because he's he's writing to us so of course of course he's trying to put these thoughts in our mind so the minute he has insight that he's sharing. It seems that he can't help. But now fall back on the fact that he shared that insight because he wanted us to think this was insightful of him. Yeah he can't he can't let go and and Choosing to drive into a wall after taking a handful of Benadryl is the only way he can seem to let his self self go in and And that's the old that's the resolution that he has to this. This fraudulence paradox. He can't he can't pop out of this. Let's take a quick break to talk about better health health. Dave what were we just saying. Neither of US have very much experience in therapy. I have exactly none by where I to. Who seek that out? Better help offers a very convenient way to match up with the counselor online in a safe and private online environment that makes it very convenient especially for our listeners who might live in rural areas and have a hard time finding a therapist that they like and can meet conveniently face to face with better. Help you you can get help on your own time at your own pace you can schedule a secure video or phone sessions plus chat and text with your therapist. Licensed professional counselors are at better help you specialize in depression stress anxiety relationships sleeping trauma Anger family conflicts. LGBT matters grief and self esteem. Anything you say is confidential Daniel. If you're not happy with your counselor for any reason you can request a new on at any time at no additional charge three thousand. US licensed therapist across Ross fifty states and again you can. You can do text. You can chat phone and video. Would you want to text with your therapist. Dave I know I know some people who do you know. It's not for me. But Hey there is financial aid available for those who who qualify qualify. It's secure convenient and affordable. It is not however a crisis line better help is not. Yeah and I WANNA emphasize that it's not various crisis lines that you should call if you're really feeling like something bad is going on and moreover Tam Learn I are not licensed professional psychologists a psychologist but not that kind so so forever. I know we said well when I was looking it up. I was like relationships can can you and I go on on three. Have to pay double double hop in the tech can be group Tech podcast couples therapy. We need best of all it is. It's a truly affordable option and very bad wizards listeners will get ten percent off your first month with Discount Code. VW So go to better help dot com slash VW Simply fill out a questionnaire to help them. Assess your needs and get matched with a counselor alert. You'll love once again that's better help dot com slash VW. Thanks to better help sponsoring this episode by wait just as an aside. I'm certainly not the literary man you are but I'm wasn't struck at all that that the writing was was is brilliant It read to me like somebody trying to write like somebody. Brilliant would the lot of really long sentences and a lot of sentence structure is that are trying to show off so in in all sort of. You've charitable interpreting of this because I think foster walls was a writer. I I can't help but think that he's trying to do this as part of the way in which he's communicating that this guy care so much about what we think of. Okay now this so we keep putting off discussing. Let me say this but I I wanna say something about the writing. which is that? I normally hate long sentences with a passion and I find it very frustrating even even an authors that I love I had initially a reaction to to this As as as not a David Foster Wallace fan boy they liked God the the sentences going on forever. There's no rest. This is a hot shot author trying to like show you how virtuosic he can be but right but then I read it out loud so then I started reading it out loud just certain passages and when you read it out loud you get the rhythm of it and when you do that the rhythm of the sentences. I don't know like I stand by. This is a brilliantly written story it just requires that the you somehow get in touch with with the rhythm of these long endless sentences and I don't know like I say you're saying it just. It's not just the length of the Centigrade that I'm saying so that was just an example but the sides and the like the it's it's like it's trying to impress you and and the nonsense that's intentional. But I don't think that he's trying to come across as a worse writer than he is and I think that's a good bridge aged to the twist of it because in the twist of it you find out that the sky probably isn't writing eh but a guy named David Wallace is writing and like I. We haven't talked about this and all but how how how we interpret this twist but at a certain late in the story as he's talking right about the as essays about to go into the actual moment of his death he mentions a man. David Wallace Hollis who went to the same high school as him. He says David Wallace blinks in the midst of idly scanning class photos from his nineteen eighty Aurora West High School Yearbook Book. HSE Yearbook and seeing my photo and trying through the tiny little keyhole of himself to imagine what all must have happened to lead up to my death in the fiery single angle car accident. He'd read about in nineteen ninety one like what sorts of pains or problems might have driven the guy to get in his electric blue corvette and dry and try to drive with all that OTC medication and his bloodstream and then goes on to describe this David Wallace happening now. This huge and totally organizable set of inner thoughts feelings memories and impressions nations of this little photo sky a year ahead of him in school with the sea and this is how it ends. Is this David Wallis character. You realize is trying trying to figure out what could have led this guy who was kind of the Chad of his high school. Take his own life in that way or at least that's that's one way of ending. The ends with a David was not with Neil anymore. So how do you interpret that. I interpreted as one of the things that I think that he mentions over and over again. Kind of hints at is this The notion of time as passing thing and as being at least Like passing in the colloquial sense in which we talk about past present future being illusory and that Things things aren't like that especially from his perspective in the afterlife. So he's talking about how you can get these impressions impressions that are almost instantaneous. And he tries to define what he means by instantaneous. Here like insights are bits of information flowing wing through through the human mind take no time at all and so. He describes David Wallace blinking and in that blink is the only time he's giving Eh David Wallace here to have this whole set of thoughts about reading about this car accident and realizing that this was a guy from his high school and a wondering and creating in his head An entire narrative. About why this as you say this Chad this seemingly successful guy how he could would have gotten to the point where he committed suicide And then David walls taking a step back and looking at his own life in his own struggles and I I read it as like a David David Foster Wallace creating the David Wallace character and saying something something like human beings are so incredibly hard to know we barely ever get like the smallest of windows into into this huge complex rich inner life every one of us has this nearly infinite infinitely rich inner life that we only only present to each other in in these ways in which we could we we couldn't possibly communicate every detail of the richness of our lives that is just just like the human predicament we are. We're living in this way. Where of course of course? Maybe we think we're for frauds like you Tamla Kantan-o all of the things things that I am I. I'm in charge of telling you what I am. I am in charge of creating in you. The thought of who I am but that is what seems to be weighing down on this meal character and so the way that I read it as David Wallace in that moment of that blink realizes that he himself has had this struggle and The very end where he says and David Wallace having emerged from years of literally indescribable war against himself with quite a bit more firepower than he'd had at Aurora West his high school that he says I'm not going to go out that way like I. I will deal with all of this in a different way. Which of course in an even more medicines is is a a distressing thought since Tabu? I don't know if we mentioned the deer. 'twas Roth I took his own life yeah which is a very hard thing to separate from reading the story also sort of propelled however frustrated straighted. You got with this character. It was it was definitely in the back of my mind as as as very sad. I think I have have a slightly slightly different take so there. Is this thing that I don't understand this time. How how so much can be condensed condensed into in a single moment? And how time is to some extent illusory and But the the the the the impact that that ending had when I first read it was whoa wait a minute. This isn't about what's his name. The Chad now yeah. This isn't about kneel at this isn't about kneel at all this is about David Foster Wallace and he not. I mean when when you actually think of who neal was and the kind of person that he was the the actual stream I'm of consciousness writing signs a lot more in the limited amount of of David Foster Wallace that I've read. It sounds a lot more like David foster wallace than it sounds downs like this guy And it's It starts to seem like he just projected his own neuroses onto this guy who barely knew like twenty years ago or twenty five years ago and so it's not it doesn't it didn't it. Didn't seem to me like this is somebody who tried honestly to engage with somebody else and try to understand their perspective. Because it's it doesn't feel like he did beyond just well. He had an older sister who David Wallace seemed like. He was tracked it too and he was better than him in baseball and he and he was good with the ladies he barely we he just takes those basic facts and then just as well. What if I had that life kind of you know? Yeah I like I actually don't disagree at all with you like I'm like that's you're you're describing a different part of of of my thoughts about this like where I was trying more to describe in that blink of an eye what he's thinking about what what must have gone through. Neil's had one hundred percent agree with you that the only thing that David Wallace the character in this story can do is project his own neuroses on Neil to figure out like well what what would make me if I were him. Take his own life And but you can't really do that like he can't the only thing you can really do is try is try and project your own thoughts onto what somebody else would have been thinking in those moments even if it's totally inappropriate create which seems like it probably was in this case you know. Well he makes them too. That's why the turn is like gave me a much better Interpretation of the story because it seems as if there was a little bit of like yeah. This guy was kind of a Chad. Maybe I didn't like him That much and and like maybe even a thought that like. How's this guy taking for granted like all of the shit that went his way and like here? I am like barely you. No striking out looking and dropping balls and right field and and he's the one who offers himself like shit like so so the way that he portrays him as maybe a mix of of what would drive me to kill myself. And what would the jerk from high school be thinking about like how self involved must have been. Yeah right but it's funny because I had this. It's not funny. It's but when David Foster Wallace took his own life I remember thinking I maybe even said this with the Matt Knock when we had him on the show on suicide. Like here's a guy. He had a great job Perfect job at Pomona Mona He was considered to be one of the. You know three or four best writers in like living writers in the world by many people and and he still did this. You know. I had that same thought that I think this David Wallace is supposedly having about Neil right right like it. Is this now. What I what? I didn't do try to imagine how that would have gone down. But that's that's I think the difference between somebody who doesn't have suicidal isolation's and somebody who does is like yeah you And and I think this David Wallace purse character does and clearly the author did But I think that this is the deepest one of the deepest and most saddest aspects of the story. Is this idea that to have a real connection with other people to really really understand where they're coming from and their perspective. It's just it's not possible and the best. We get is like copies of copies copies of copies so it's like a plateau thing where it's like an it's me all of that is mediated through all this fraudulent and bullshit and and we're sort of trapped in our own perspective and we worry that. There's no breaking out of that. And what what David Wallace is doing is barely even trying. It seems like Well that's that's why like I think that it was such a such a a great turn such a great little stroke there to say that Yeah like David Wallace is hears about this guy. This guy killing himself and it's not so much that he took days he's to obsess over why he must have done it. Even though obviously David Foster Wallace took like however long to obsess over writing this story very he he says that it was in between the jury was in the duration of a blink that he had these thoughts. And so. That's when you were saying that like so. You know when you heard about David Foster walls I remember having those same thoughts you know it. It's it's a little close to home. He's a he he was a professor who seemingly had all of the things that we would want is a professor thing including things that most professors could never have and in that brief moment when we formed that impression of what we thought. David Foster Wallace must have been thinking David Wallace in the story is taking in all of that. Like in in that moment fleshing it out like an end as Neil is trying to say. Sometimes you have these very rich you cannot describe it in linear time like these these thoughts all happening at once. It's just it's just the nature of argument limitations that we have to right all out which is why he's taking so long to say everything and why he's constantly apologizing. I think for the meandering. He's all of. This is happening in in literally the blink of an eye. Yeah but now. I have not read much secondary literature on this. We both came. I'm across you came across the abstract I came across an abstract And then just like a couple of hours before read the paper so there are some people that think I think this is David Foster Wallace. Sh you know so. He's writing the story and it's almost like a heroic or courageous attempt to try to connect with somebody and try to understand what it must have felt like to be them and what this author argues in. This was definitely the sense I got is that it's much darker than that. This story it is about the impossibility of doing that and even trying it. It doesn't seem like in that blink of an Eye David Wallis even tried to imagine that and you know one thing I didn't do is try to imagine. Imagine what was going through David. Wallace's David Foster Wallace's head when I heard about I knew I had no idea that was one of the reasons nations we wanted to have matt on is to try to understand this What could Po what what causes people to do this? And it seems like this David Wallace us just. He does try to do that. But in a way that so transparently about him rather than about Neil Neil the guy and if you get the sense that in the reality of the story that the character Neil is just nothing like how oh. He's portrayed in the first three quarters of the story just as well. Yeah we are undone. Our our impression of Neil is undone as at least a realistic impression of him given that we find out that that it is David Wallace's impression of him But I think that's right. Yeah you're right. This is not a masterful like Tale about connecting with somebody else's pain. It is this this is the one and and the only reason I can think of for him to describe it as been having been in the blink of an eye like sure he has to write down all of the words sequentially for US understand it. But he's David Wallace in. The story has literally given him a blink of time to like judge jury executioner. He's basically created that and and so while of course he has to to make this a lengthy story. I think take it. We're supposed to be understanding that it wasn't isn't the effort of David Wilson. The story was not the effort of David. Foster Walton writing the story. But I think the effort of David Foster Wallace is also not supposed to be something that we are supposed to applaud as a triumph of connecting with somebody else. Because it just sounds like David Foster Wallace to you know And and his own neurosis and you can see the optimism that I think some people get out of. This story is in that last little bit right. The real air more enduring and sentimental part of him commanding that other part to be silent as if looking at Levy in the eye and saying almost allowed not another word like. He's trying to quiet now. This David Wallace is trying to quiet. The voice in his own own head. The other thing I read today again was the this is water. Commencement speech and that is very. It's very much just about that right right. It's about quieting the voice in your own head so you can take in what's around you so you can take in what's outside yourself. And this story has a lot of that two of these moments that Neal's grasping for where he is his personality. His self is almost obliterated because he's actually focused on the world outside of him. That does seem to me. The sense I get of David. Foster Wallace is is that he was a person trapped in his own head to a greater extent than most people are even though I think all of us are too large extent but put desperately wanting to not be that way. You know. There's a very key. There's very almost Buddhist sense of I want to actually be the world and be aware of the world and and connect with that world and less with my own running monologue in my head but I can't and that's the tragedy Ajeti of it and and yeah it's yeah I love the part. Where he he tries meditation and he finds that he's so good it because he's just trying to impress the meditation teacher to saw through? Yeah he's like convinced. The Meditation Teachers completely saw through which is probably not exactly as mocking. Yeah the the image that I get like just to clarify. It's not that. I think that David Wallace David Foster walls taking a long long time to write down. The story means that he was empathy. Ray Right I agree that he's not empty. It's just that he's describing David. Wallace says having this impression in the blink of an eye and he's he's writing down the impression in this very literary way and it's funny because he says Again not funny the real or more during sentimental part of him commanding that other apart to be silent as if looking at Leveille in the eye and saying almost allowed not another word. Because that's the only way to get out of of this in this regress of focusing on your inner thoughts is it. Is Him trying to quell that. You're you know. Yeah I have an image of of of of like flushing insect down the toilet bowl like how they keep trying and trying and trying to get to get out of that toilet bowl and and The Neal Neil as described by walls doesn't seem to even know how to do it right. He just he's getting further and further and every time he reaches for that branch to try to pull himself out. He's quickly reminded that his reaching for the branch has some sort of meaning about how he wants to appear himself and he can't see out of it and so to end it with. Not Another word is is I think. At least David Foster Wallace might have wanted to be A hopeful optimistic interpretation at least about his own struggle even though he was probably being addicted. Yeah they it is about his own struggle. We'll go and how you read the ending as either optimistic or pessimistic is an obviously it can be a little bit of both But I take I guess I got more of a pessimistic sense of it in the sense that it seems like this character. Her didn't try to get outside of himself. I take it as much more just about about the impossibility of doing that And it it. While at the same time that yearning which I associate with David Foster Wallace I thought the real person the author for just being like a good person that can connect with other people in a very minimal way. It doesn't expect too much out of that and that just appreciates the beauty of life by find so many obstacles pickles in the way between him and the appreciation of it. Yeah it's it's interesting because in his Like I think that the the The Meta point that we cannot ever know another person is is like one clear. Clear point the the the other point is that in his shitty attempted knowing who neal was the takes the blink of an eye. He then outlines like this total. He's trying really hard to describes unintentional struggle. That that that might be right in that last sentence he says and David walls having emerged from years of literally indescribable war against himself which I don't think is You know I think it's very very purposeful to say literally indescribable war Where he's he's even take this story as being day foster walls reaching shing that like trying to reach for that branch when he's swirling down the toilet bowl and maybe thinking that that at least today when he says when he's Consigliere that part of his head he can say not another word today? It's his own struggle right. Like David Foster Wallace style struggle. Like Neil Neil to you know like if I had like I don't know like maybe kneel drove into a wall because he had embezzled money and he was about to get caught. And and you know like or just as we do took too much benadryl or just right exactly right and so it essentially becomes just a vehicle for the David Wallace character. And maybe the David Foster Wallace author to work out his own shit shit and With a little bit of distance you know how that allows him to make fun of himself and condemn himself but but also praised himself and all of that and Yeah this other thing. That is definitely true of this. And it's also true of this says water this appreciation of cliches so worrying that cliches are cliches and so they're trite and pathetic and everybody's GonNa Make Fun of them but at the same time feeling that they are deeply true and if we just let ourselves understand the truth we would be happier but all this bullshit and worries about being fraudulent and worries about being in just cliche and dull and And Lane just gets in the way of US actually getting to simple beautiful truths about the world world. Yeah that's a good point in it and it's consistent with at least my understanding of of Foster walls concerns about irony and the the generation that that was so so ironic where it's like well. Now now you've just shut yourself off from the certain amount of just authenticity see that you can achieve through these. What what might be considered hackneyed by by this post modern or the generation of irony and it's hilarious and I think a real sense that that it is the sarcasm of Lilith from cheers? Yeah that throws rose him over the edge and I can't help but thinking to myself to God like you're not that important yourself self obsessed like I am reminded of like may have had friends like this in in in college That who get drunk some dude gets drunk and he starts starts talking about how nobody knows pain. And you're just like shut the fuck up Phil. You're you're doing fine. Your life is not a tragedy. But but that's you know as we actually might be even though you guys should get over himself. That's the kind of pain and it's very very much about. We haven't talked about this that much. But the inability of language to communicate a person's inner life is a prominent theme in this a story And that's why I think it's meandering in purposeful ways where where he's clearly making an effort and I'm noting over and over again in this in this sort of a Meta way like I can't get like I I know I know I'm doing a bad job of this but like stay with me right. I know this this is boring and tedious and probably Hate me and you just want to get to the part where I kill myself but you know stick with but I yeah good. I was just going to say though that I think that there's something deep about the lying as the idea. That from an early age age I'd somehow chosen to cast my lot with my life's dramas supposed- audience instead of with the drama itself. It's like he's so worried about how the drama will be. Perceived will it be perceived as trite will be perceived as as as deep that he just forgets about the actual drama. The actual feelings that come with with being a person that has relationships and Struggles goes and joys. And it's it's like he's he he's already he jumped to being from being concerned. Learned about those actual things to being concerned about how they'll be perceived and there's something so sad about that it's yeah it's it's totally totally sad and and there's a lot of wisdom in this an another section that is like so beautiful and tragic all also given what happened is when he is describing and I know that that at least I've heard did that people who who decided to kill themselves kind of have like or can have I should say a moment Of of Co cheery mood before once. They've already decided. And he's talking about a now that I know I'm going to die. Everything that I'm experiencing thing is just wonderful and like amazing and you know this the since the last time I'm going to see whatever you know a computer screen in a microphone in front of me this time. I'm going to see it when when you when you're in that mental state all of the sudden you realize how much you take for for granted in in life of course isn't enough to stop him now from doing it but just that that set of observations was this really powerful and tragic that he couldn't have appreciated those things earlier. You know without knowing that he was going to that it was going to be the last time I'm he would experience them. You know that's right. That's right there is The madness that maybe that's what our listeners sinners like one of the reasons some of our listeners pointed us to this story where you know I hesitate to say or hazing but I think we're Hazen for layer. The there is there is at least three levels of this shit right and which whichever level you want to focus on can give you a different kind of appreciation and insight for what's going on. I think there's there's a level at which you can take. Neil story is a true story about a true person named Neil then there is this taking the character of David Wallace. What it says about him that he's gives the story of Neil Blink of an eye and has all these thoughts about him and then there's the the Meta David Foster Wallace writing all this down and US trying to guess which parts are him are him describing meal him feeling under making a point about a failing to understand other people or making really keen observations? About what it's like to be human and therefore understanding all people in some way right. I think one of the things things that people love about David Foster Wallace is that at least it seems like he did try even even if he would felt himself ultimately incapable of connecting with others and being a better person than the way that he imagined a a a good person should be. He did want to do it and he wanted to help other people do it and and yet I don't totally see. See that from this story you know and I think that's why I think this is a story that is he's being self critical. Tail light sticker. Yeah yeah well. It's the thing you know it gives it gives the safety of distance and and you know I'm not talking about me. I'm playing about Neil and moreover this David Wallace might even be me. But I'm going to tell you that it's David Wallace. So you know that there's enough meat in there. Yeah you know in reading some some article article about About this that I've put a link to a couple of articles in show notes but Somebody without saying the words they describe. I believe the Fi- you know the the solution of of being caught in this solid cystic ever-growing not it's like a Gordian knot in the way out was to take a sword to it. And that's that's the way that that that Neil Got Got himself out of this. This cycle that was a nice way of putting it because he is getting us into this. Not like this tied up all about him and and he's very matter of factly like I drove my fucking corvette into a wall and he thought that was the only way to get out of yes of the cycle of gone out of the spiral of his autism. And actually at its after that in you know in the narrative he he says that he is actually able to connect with the therapist right not in life but only in death is able to. That's an IT's a super interesting way of saying thing like I don't know what he's saying. But it's like the limitations you saying like the limitations of the afterlife. I mean of life. Go Away in the afterlife. But he's doing doing it as a way to just point to the real limitations of right or I or possibly the kind of obliteration of self. You know like you understand everything. Yeah then then that opens the door for real compassion. You know real connection You and I are one now. I call your shooters I now Yoda and an Internet fan fiction or whatever I also do she sinophile. I wanted to ask you how much you thought because we can't help but think about this but but maybe sort of as a way to wrap this up like do you think there's no right answer to this. But how much do you think we ought to take. The David Foster Wallace killing himself as a way to understand this text me. My temptation is that we shouldn't at all that we should treat it as it's on. Its own that whatever. The whatever ended up happening to David Foster Wallace doesn't bear much on what he's telling us here. But that is my temptation and it's also very hard to do that. I think I yeah Like I it's I I. It's sort of what I believe just in general that you should try to separate the authors light. Unless it's something like the Irishman which which is very much about Martin Scorsese's past career but the thing that we are taking into account with this story is as David Foster Wallace's future and I think that's that's something that I that may be more resistant to the one way I would guess. How would we can at least see that? This is somebody who is deeply struggling with suicidal thoughts NAM. Dan May I wonder I wonder how much That would have come across having not read this before they foster wallace die by suicide. Like I. I wonder how much like you know. Now we're like red flag. Yeah I mean I think a lot of the this is where other people oh with who have read way more of his work will know better than to what extent other work signaled he definitely written some stuff about depression. And and but I don't know I think it does a bid of a disservice. I I say this because I I know that that the he was a human being and what happened to him does matter but I do. Some sometimes think it does a disservice to the author to You know take the texts. Yeah just alone and yet and I think yeah. It's super tempting to it but you know the truth is that Eddie lived a completely different life. We wouldn't we like the text stands on its own as powerful as as a moving piece of art no matter. What even if David Foster Wallace was like you know some rich asshole loved life so much or kill? You know. It doesn't matter yeah. I agree It's it's just I would say that it's it's almost asking too much of the reader to yeah have at this point just completely separate that from from the tax so I know I didn't And and at some an I agree about the disservice but then at some point it kind of kept me going in parts where I would have been. Yeah especially frustrated you know with the story. Yeah kind of. It's funny. What kept me going to was? You say you were talking about having faith in the author And we've talked about this before region have to have faith in like whatever the artist is that they're going to not lead you a stray and and I couldn't help but think here that since I was I you know what I read their foster wallace. I really enjoyed But I read nonfiction and I I in reading this. It was actually faith in our audience yet. Kept me go through sure. They wouldn't have recommended this if right if it was. You know if there wasn't something about it that you know that it's true. I feel like they know us so well. This this point that That there's no way that they could have recommended. I absolutely agree I. I will say it's interesting that some like I have really really loved some of his nonfiction pieces and the Roger Federer one is I think so brilliant and part of the reason. I think that it's so brilliant. Brilliant and into that one. Yeah Yeah I think that's right he is describing something that is not him at all you now. It is just something that is exists in the world. That's beautiful that isn't underground man wrapped doc in his own bullshit. At least that's my memory of it. I haven't read it in a wild but I remember that being just perfect description of Roger Federer and and what. It's like to watch him play tennis rather than you know about his own regardless of fantasies. Yeah well thanks for the recommendation. And I I I enjoyed added to. I'M GONNA I'M GONNA dip into more David Foster Wallace. We should imagine how to another episode at some point on him. That's right I hopefully. I bought the book so I don't WanNa waste my money. We didn't say what goodwill neon was about but it's explained in a footnote marginally The reason for the title Well it's it's actually right because he said he had a neon aura around him than and yeah but to put the footnote really really explains it. I think that's a weird that I know. It's like too. Oh Nice Nice the corvette he goes as if the president were this car. Nice car by the way. And the past the like there's a lot of stylistic it's a little like Joaquin Phoenix's performance like stylistic inconsistencies consistencies. That's not a bad way to describe like the and the Joaquin Phoenix You know now that you say it that way like I. The Joaquin in Phoenix performance is in some ways the performance of someone kind of trying to find what the person's voice what the jokers voice would be And this might be just that like trying to find what what this character of Neil might be Yeah it's a nice. That's a good insight. Good job Let's let's quit while we're ahead. Join US next time and very bad man man plan. Take the reins and you. Anybody can have a very good man just to say bad wizards.

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Sign of the Times?

The Right Time with Bomani Jones

1:04:53 hr | 2 years ago

Sign of the Times?

"A listener. I we got a big favorite as won't take up too much of your time of promise. You know, our show is supported by some fantastic sponsors. And we'd love to hear your feedback. Head to podcast listeners dot com. Fill out a short survey. That's it promise. Again, that's podcast listeners dot com. Ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the right time. My name is Bomani Jones. Thanks for listening on the ESPN app. Apple podcasts, we ever get your podcast. We appreciate it rate. Us review was give us five stars. You only give us four stars. I'm inclined to think that you are a hater. All right coming up on this episode really Condoleeza Rice as a head coach. You got that bright idea? How crazy it is for the Washington Wizards? And yes, your stories about your crazy moments at home for thanksgiving. But I. All right. That was one hell of a football game on Monday night. It was the chiefs. It was the Rams. It was the game that you would cross your fingers and hope for shockingly the over under number gay. What was it like sixty five or something like that? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I could not believe though, that the number was that low in granted that was one of the highest numbers that we have ever seen. But I was shocked that it was that low given what the teams were that we were talking about. But man, fifty four fifty one. Yeah. Missed extra points. And of course, you had with many people are taken as a sign of the future of the NFL, accept or. I don't know of this is actually the future also not convinced that this is the future that people want. But I am not convinced that this future. Now, let me start with the idea about whether or not this is the future that people want. That was a highly entertaining game. I think people really really enjoyed watching it. And of course, it my job to how machine cranked up gay. I saw so multi VS and this is the greatest regular season game ever doing that. We're in the recency mode here. How does the best game ever drought at think of like what's number two? Right. He's not asking to be about great regular season games. Like in my mind. I think a great regular season moments. But I guess I don't have that me like games that I think of as being just great regular season games. Now part of what tends to make our perception of what a game is has to do with the build up has to do with drama's not strictly about what goes on on the football field. Like if you talk to people about the greatest playoff games of all time that game with the. The reception probably be high on the list. I can't tell you nothing happened in that game other than the immaculate reception. You understand what I'm saying? Like that just becomes the thing that stands out, and that becomes perception of what game was but not this game was really really good. I just don't think that this game as you had it is easily replicated by big about this. We had the saints. And the Rams was it last week is a few weeks ago. Yeah, we are as we had the saints in the Rams. The saints in the Rams, which by the way was played indoors like on turf. That was a really really really like high powered clash of offense. There's no question about that. That was at least two out of the three best offense in the NFL. Just like last night was at least two or three best offenses and the NFL. We saw teams put up a lot of points that game. Didn't have it quite insane way to this cheese. Rams game. Had like it did now I also think it's worth noting that saints Rams was not on ESPN. And that mad is look we got a game. We go hype. That thing even if it's a sorry game. We ain't going soldier intelligence, but we're gonna try best to make you think you should be watching. It would you give us an actual real live. Good game. It wasn't. It wasn't a Monday night game. Last week the giants in the forty Niners with no Garoppolo and like half. Even if you had even ask Rob Lowe at one going to be no damn good. But you know, what we still go like is something worth watching right up and coming players. We don't give it to you. But you give us this like the Monday night slate is gesturing like baseball kind of talking to networks, but you understand the the Monday night football game is lower on the pecking order then like the Sunday at four o'clock game. Then the Sunday night football game. You know, you get better gain and Thursday night football. But this is like Jeter, it's not expected to be the best game of the week except this time. It was absolutely the best game of the week is week. And so that means you got the best game of the week to people looking forward to you get our machine broad. They put our TV show on yesterday on six o'clock at ESPN news. I saw that I had to come to work at the same time. That's that's how ready we were over here for gain. Like we were making that happen for y'all. And then the game actually lived up to what it was that. We were talking about like it really was that good. So yeah, there's going to be recess. You buy is that comes there. And we're going to give you a certain measure reasons, he buys as we do it ain't nobody for that. But you gotta acknowledge like one thing we gotta be real about when we work here is that like we can be very confident about the fact that this place drives sports conversation you Dan, right? We go drive this conversation about some that we got on TV like we don't drive it. If it's not all here too. But if it's all hero, baby. We don't try. And then you gotta gain that was actually fifty four to fifty one. It was nuts and not only was it nuts. And this is why I say is in like so easily replicated you got the two coaches there that are schematically probably farther ahead of the league than anybody else. I think the Saint with the saints are doing is. Really really impressive. But I also think the saints have a quarterback who is like a tier above the two guys that we saw last night like Mahomes has played really well this year, and he's put up these great numbers. But I don't know if any of us saying we'd rather have him. Drew Brees drew Brees is out here on something absolutely surgical. So it's hard for me to tell you know. Of course, Sean pains, really good at this. But it's off to tell what if this is Sean Payton would've this is, you know, we're breezes all of that. Like, I don't I don't get the feeling from listening to people talk about what the saints are doing. They're doing very well. But it doesn't sound like it's own some like like, whoa. Look at what we got going here. Eighty Regis decided that he was going to operate from a change in the paradigm of what professional offensive right like he played a different game there. And then you man, McVay going to be honest. I don't know damn thing about skiing. Maybe he's just doing what he's doing. Really, really? Well, I don't know. But eight coaching the hell outta those boys. The absolute hell outta those boys. So not. Every team is gonna have an Andy Reid not every team is going to have a Sean McVay or Sean Payton like that's that's not going to be the case for everybody as stains. There's going to be a point where defenses are going to catch up to what is being done. So the way I figure this winds up going is you got teams that play like they did there. You gonna have a lot more people trying to copy what that is a lot more people trying to hire systems off of that tree. We oughta Chicago hire mad Nagy whose Andy Reid guy. We saw Doug Peterson get higher by the eagles in Andy Reid, guys, which you're gonna see is what these guys are doing is going to spread it as it spreads. It's going to be cool. But there's not going to be a growth explosion. There's going to be like an expansion of that level of thought. But I don't know if there's going to be like how long it's going to be before this thing blows up again. In the meantime, the defenses are going to have to catch up and it's going to be some hotshot defensive coordinator who figures out. Okay. These are the things that we need to do in the pros that are able to shut these things down. Because a lot of what I feel like you got go over there. And re right now is your. Doing this college stuff, but you doing it with like high level pro players. Well, they're ways to stop is in college too. You know, like not every game in college is fifty five fifty three or something like that. People figure it out there. He's going to figure out why with the hash marks in the NFL with the guys you got like what's going to be the thing to slow this down, and that is probably going to wind up happening. And then once that winds up happening these things are going to they're going to go in and now, so this is that like every game is going to be this way. The other thing that I would note about this is there was defense. I mean, the Rams forced five turnovers that sheafs they don't have a very good defense. But they forced two turnovers. The Rams had what gave the what they had two touchdowns. Returns. Multiple. Yeah. Saint do multiple. Yeah. Same dude had two touchdowns on returns. Okay. Well, that's defense that does in fact count as defense is our to argue that there was no defense out there when Aaron Donald was out there a new vote me. He's very good. He's very good. He is excellent. And he absolutely demonstrated his excellence on the field yesterday. Like we saw these things Jags HEC getting bad defense. But I wouldn't say that that game was just totally about there being no defense whatsoever is going to be hard. Stop anybody in this league between the twenties though, that's the part that people are going to have to make peace with what I think a lot of defensive guys have already made peace with that between the twenties is going to be a tough go of it. But you can still shut it down in the red zone. There's only so much that you were going to be able to do to make it easy to do offense within a Compaq area in the NFL like spaces, your friend on office. The fact that everybody has to account for all the space. That's big deal when you're packing eleven dudes. And they got a cover space Fifty-three wide in eighty long. That's a lot different than having to cover space fifty three wide and fifteen long or thirty long. That's different. You know? That's always going to be it. What it seemed like the chiefs can do though is they got so many big plays. They can put on you to Rams doing the same thing. They hit you with big plays where you're twenty two twenty strategy who you just need to make sure that they don't get over your head. Nagin these little fast dudes out here. And they either you're just running over your head Craig me if I'm wrong gay. But anyway, DRAMs out there with no power full of receivers. It looked like they got a bunch of little dudes. Yes. Like a chip Kelly offense except not quite the temple, right? All the little guys. Remember back at Oregon yet lake Kenyan Barner, the Anthony commas and all those guys are like five five six and super fast and also from like south central to evolutionary advantage. I think that Oregon picked up almost like if you're at a place like Oregon, you can get fast dudes, you can give big dudes. But you probably can't get big and fast. So just figure out what I can do with all these little and facile, Michael James is another example of a guy that got up there that was on the little infest program. That's what they go. With Reid is figure something out in the NFL. Like, we can do this little in facet. Also is worth noting the little in fast that the chiefs have is the the fastest. You know what I mean? Like diary kill is really really really good. Like, there's personnel. Excellent. That's also going on here. That makes me say, okay. Maybe offense is just not completely going out of the window here. You're gonna see a lot of big empty stats though. That part is going to happen. You're going to see a greater proliferation. A guys like her cousins that are able to go out here and put up a lot of big pretty numbers. You're not gonna be able to use a stat sheet as any sort of evaluation greatness from here on out. I do believe that that part has wild up changing. But to me there is going to be defense is just not necessarily going to be the kind of defense that people have grown accustomed to enjoying because people like violence took a Twitter poll here, by the way gapes at this out this morning. Good job on this. We got about eighteen hundred yell so for plot. And he says how many of you enjoy NFL future that was all offense to seven on seven. If it looked like last night's Monday night football game thirty five percent of you said you want the offense sixty five percent of you said, no you want more hits you want more violence. And yes, part of what is happening in the league. Now that is allowing for all this offense is that the defense is being told don't hit dues too hard. Which means you can't really get to space quite as fast, which eliminates fear as a variable. When guys are going over the middle and stuff like that. Like they've done this. They have legislated out a significant amount of the violence. It keeps quarterback safer if nothing else, but they've lived lated a great deal. All of that out people need to be out. It's about the fact that the violence part of what makes his game compelling. It is right. And I don't think you necessarily have to feel bad about that fact that is part of why you watch this is you like watch guys hit. Now, there's some stuff that we use to do that is just like horribly uncomfortable now because we guilt man dues like, really hurting. They're on the ground. Remember jacked up jerk now. Now, we got you got most you got Mazdas a little bit more guilt free. Even though we'd be doing it like high schoolers, but is easy to live with yourself after why you got most than it was why would be reply jerked up bag now, we're not we're not doing the Jack up anymore. That's not that's not quite the place. Even if guy really catches a bio, we not really putting the bios on loop in a way that we use to like, we we've got some consciousness about the violence and is a little bit more difficult for us to stomach than it used to be. But I think it's okay doing knowledge that. Yeah. The game is a little bit less compelling without that element there. Which is interesting because just like sampling the conversation on Twitter last night. And I think this is more indicative of the type of people that I follow is that oh my God. This is the greatest football game ever, you know, more offense more offense more often. So I'm thinking to myself if people just want more offense, I mean, this is the direction that things are going. You got people like Richard Sherman is basically touch football. Now, basically seven on seven all these guys are playing seven on seven in the summers in high school and stuff. It's like, well, I mean, you might as well have seven on seven out there. And just a million times this more. More offense. But then it's like yours. You gotta get that. Real time reaction, you got to hear from the people come back to, you know, the real nece where it's like, no. We want more hits the more. Sean Taylor in this. Yeah. No. I really don't think people would want that. I mean, I don't but. Wow. It's it's a tricky thing. Like, I think people generally like football, the noses football like lot of the ideals behind it. Like, I think the people generally do like it. But we've all got our favorite enforcer that we liked and I don't think this is like basketball by were basketball legislated the enforcer out. But the enforcer wasn't really necessary in basketball in the way that it's always felt like it was necessary in football. They are creating what is ineffective or trying to create what is in effect a different game. Now, I'm not saying good footballer grew up with his dying. But it is in like it'll turn into something else. Chances are I'll find a way to enjoy that. But it is like we need to be real about defect. It is turning into. Something else that being said, let's not pretend is though like maybe they've gone too far. But let's not pretend is though some of the things they've done to improve offense in his league. Have not been a good thing. If you tried to play the NFL now, according nineteen seventies. Rules, y'all ain't trying to watch that. Right. Like if you could muscle receivers on the outside like they used to be able to muscle receivers bagging today, you're trying to watch that if they head slap was still out there. And do that's rushing to Patrick just slab the hell out of somebody in the head. And then go to the court na, nah, nah. Nah. You don't want that? Like a lot of this has been necessary. A lot of this has been good. And we need to be real about the fact that a lot of this has been good. But I mean, I don't want every week in the NFL to look like the NBA all star game. We don't. That being said, I do think that it is like kind of interesting to consider that part of what's making this good now at least watch game like that is not just that. It's a bunch offense. But it was like a bunch of offense in a way to we haven't really seen like the chiefs are objectively interesting to watch. If it was just a bunch of guys running all go route in every time like playing rookie on Madden on EMC AA where you just send everybody ought to go round every play. And then you're able to shut it up there and go get it people. Don't want offense to that point. Right. I do think that they wanted in an aesthetic that they are able to appreciate I that. I do think exist that I do think is there. But I got something to throw out here for you think about this. I think HD is part of the problem for the NFL when it comes to the violence. Really? Well, when you see those dues get rocked and knocked out you're seeing it in a clarity. You had never seen before. What's interesting, though, is I mean, you know, reading. Book about Brandon fell and they were talking about in an and also to the junior CEO thirty for thirty that we watched like last month they were talking about who in TV coverage. They used to really when these big big bone. Crunching hits would happen. Like, there was a there was a shift in terms of how we viewed it where a bone. Crunching hit would happen you like he's dead on the ground, basically. And then after at a certain point in time, it can be like Amancio, right? Yeah. Does he look? Okay. And you're right. I mean to agree. That's the St. because you're getting a clarity that you've never had before. But I wonder how much of that is how much the camera actually stays and shows these sorts of things because it's like if something's happening on the sideline if ado bell got wrong, and he's like tripping out and phone over on this island that may be something that before didn't get showed. Whereas now, it's like Yoko. I mean, someone can look at it from the crowd and take a video. Bill like, yo this tripping out and everybody looks at it. And it's like, wow, there's something. That's not right here. Yeah. You don't auto. We just write this off in ways that we used to. But it's interesting because so boxing, for example, you remember that's got put to sleep. I forget who it was that knocked about things Marquez put them out in it with like the internet had simple, try to wake them up and all that stuff you've ever that. Yeah. Which is cold in is cold. But like in boxing. We don't got no conscience about those things as long as you don't die like somebody gets knocked out in a boxing match in there laying on the graph thirty minutes out cold. We're not tripping on that in the way that we are somebody having that happening football would they want that they want? I mean, it's like I was just watching this documentary when we were kings Ali and George Foreman. And I mean, you got the crowd chanting in Zaire like we kill him. Yes. Lee kill them, you know, and it's like that's what they want. But here's the thing. The same people watching boxing match. See dude knocked unconscious go good knocked out. But then see it happened in a football game, and cringe. But it's a matter of how we set the context around these things goes, it just goes to a lot of different directions into how we actually feel about the violence that surrounding football. But I think people need to be out as a lot of that hitting that we used to love that. We like it makes us uncomfortable. It isn't Parker. Somebody told us that it was uncomfortable lie. Somebody was like, oh, that's not cool. And they watch it again. Like, yeah. You know, what it's not isn't that a little bit rough. Isn't that isn't that thing? But I know if you got like chiefs Rams every week. I do think people would like it. But it ain't gonna be cheese. Rams every week. There's that that was pinnacle level football that we saw it's kind of like when LSU in Alabama played in twenty eleven and they played that nine to six game. That was just a defensive masterpiece. It was wonderful to watch not every night at six games. Go look like that. It goes that way for high scoring games too. You know, like it's not just going to be about giving people wrong numbers of points is about giving them a product. Enjoy while they're getting raw numbers appoints. And there is a concern that if you stacked rules too much to get it, it ain't going work. But if you just got a lot of talent in great scheme. You get a good game. Like you got Monday night. We'll be back in a minute to talk about Condoleeza Rice. But I work from Robin Hood, Robin hoods and in after lets you buy and sell stocks ETF s options and cryptos all commission free. The strive to make financial services work for everyone. Not just rich people and it's easy. Not intimidating way. Stock market newcomers to invest for the first time to do it with true confidence. I have used robinhood myself, and it's really easy to go in and buy and sell learn how to invest as you build your portfolio. Discover new stocks and trag your favorite companies that a personalized news feed custom notifications price movements. And you never miss the right moment to invest guy easy to understand charts and market daddy can place the trade and just four taps on your smartphone. Other brokerages charge you up to ten dollars for every trae, but Robin Hood doesn't charge commission fees trae stocks and keep all of your profits. Now, Robin Hood is giving listeners a free stock like apple Ford or spread to help. Build your portfolio side up at right, time dot robinhood dot com. That's. The right time dot robinhood dot com. All right. It's about Sunday kind of mine them all been as a look up on the Twitter machine. And Adam schefters tweeted out that the Cleveland Browns light to interview coddling rice to beat a head coach. And I gotta admit it was a little uncomfortable ones that was announced. I admit that. I know a lot of you guys believe that I'm one of these people that I just say, whatever, I think, no matter what I worried about the consequences. Br you think you get as far as I have in his game now worrying about no damn consequences. Yes. Yes. Yes. I do. Math on stuff. Right. I got a different I know risk aversion the right way to put it, but I've got its fiscal understand. What is at broke your thing say what is worth risk so forth. So all right. But I run that mad than I typically run that mad very fast and one thing about me and the way that I run that math is if I have even a moment where I'm like, I don't know about that one. Then I'm not going to do it cause it ain't worth the risk because I ain't gonna lose it all trying to make you laugh. Now, it ain't happening. So here Connolly's rise is perhaps going to be interviewed to be the head coach of the Cleveland Browns. And I'm like. When is it safe to say that this is perhaps the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard? When is the as he say for me applied on a couple of levels, though. Right. I really wasn't so much like totally worried about the bag lash from so-called vote, you know, you know, necessarily want to be on business in the well, maybe talk to me laid disappointed in me and stuff like that. Moon's moon kill with the moon thing. And all that kind of stuff, man. You know, that kind of thing I read so much whereabout woke in a situation like that. What I do worry about though, is I don't necessarily wanna have all the people patted me on the back who like you girls doom. They don't do anything both football. I already want them allies at a moment like that. However, the idea of Condoleeza Rice coaching, and if L team is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard in my life on top of that. I saw people say, well, she doesn't really want to be a head coach is to be the Commissioner of the NFL that she really wants. I guess it is possible that she really wants that. But then again, I heard that and I'm like, wow. That is also one of the dumbest. Things I ever heard in my life. Now, I will start with why the idea of these rights being head coach is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard in my life before talking about why kind of LIZA rises Commissioner is one of the things that I've ever heard in my life. And I warned you in advance that the ladder reason is probably not for why you think it is. Anyway, let's gidget first part on the surface. It is very easy to explain why we stupid to make Connolly's rice the head coach you a football team, which would be to Condoleeza Rice has been a little busy doing things I studying Soviet tala G, and she has not been in a position to really prepare for what it is to be an NFL head coach. Now, I don't mean this like when he's cats come into the draft. And then they have four point -o GPA's, and they might get roles. Gotta shifts and people like that detriment to how good they going to be at football. No. I mean, the Condoleeza Rice really has been out here doing things like studying Soviet tala g. She has not been breaking down Xs and os of football. She has not been working on putting together a management structure for running a football team. This is simply not what she has done. This is nuts. There is no man that I can think of that somebody has just pull completely out of nowhere to be the head coach of NFL team gave can you think of one? I mean, that's what I felt was a little weird about this. It was like so far out of left field. And then immediately the Browns were like, oh, no. We didn't say that. We didn't do that. So it was almost like they were testing the waters head to be. Yeah. Let's float this out there. See what the reaction is. And then from that kind of like decide our course of action, which is really I thought it was a little unfair to Condoleeza Rice because it's like she openly campaigning for this position. No. So why does it need to be brought up and then shot down? Now. I mean Schefter didn't just pull that out of his key. Stor Ryan Lee, right right with I didn't make this up. Somebody who matter told Adam Schefter this and he felt confident saying this on air, and then it goes from there, and yeah, it's a little bit on. Fair to Condoleeza Rice that it was thrown out there. But this is just like as a notion like Jimmy hasn't been telling the homes dude again getting vice and maybe the homeless do actually say Jerry Rice, but he didn't understand him. And even Jerry Rice would be a silly idea as somebody to hires. Hey coat like in basketball. They pull dues out broadcast booth and stuff like that. And they turned into head coaches. That happens baseball pulled out broadcast booth. Not normally people that have had some relationship with game prior. But still I don't have a great answer who's good at doing those jobs in those other sports. I know that if you're gonna talk about being a football coach, you probably need to actually been doing stuff around football and see where it's unfair to Condoleeza Rice. I think it's wildly insulting to the idea of women being coaches because you'll remember John Dorsey general manager Browns, he came out and said, they'd be interested in hiring men or women who, you know, for this job specifically mentioned women, which led to was to the step of where we are now with the Browns right with the Schefter report. He says. Women and then all of a sudden the woman's name out there. But then jumped out to me about that is which basically tell me is. Yeah, if you wanna be a woman and be a coach in the NFL fantastic. Oh, you need to do is have a PHD have been formulas security advisor. And then secretary of state you think you can do that. What are you serious? And there are a bunch of women who are involved in the game today. Yes. And it's not like they're being considered for any sort of Brazil's. So it's almost like saying, oh, you can get involved in our game. You can get involved, but you're not going to be considered for a job unless you're a PHD scholar and worked in the White House is ridiculous. Right. Like, maybe if you have an Augusta National membership, then you come through here, which by the way, we make are the envy of much of the NFL. All that being said in looking at it. Right. And just I know this is it's a weird thing to have been put out there. And I also think the conversation about women being head coaches in the NFL we need to doubt that back. And what I mean by saying they needed out at back is we're a few steps removed from that being a possibility, right? Like, I don't know how long it'll be before. That thing happens. I feel like the discussion right now needs to be. All right. So when will we have a woman who is like an actual reliable system coach like not, no quality control or no intern or something like that? But like defensive backs coach. So, you know, something like that that is the next step of it. Because these are the people who typically wind up getting head coaching jobs offense, coordinators defense coordinators and offense of line coaches. Those are the guys that typically get those jobs the other system positions can be very nice segues into getting a coordinator position. But those are the ones who get jobs, and it's really been heavily slanted in recent times toward people on offense. That's where you go to start. Because before you even like this thing like when people talked about begging Hamon, the is this with spars about her being an MBA head coach in Popovich said, you know, I think she would make a great head coach the problem is while Popovich saying she would make a great head coach. He didn't even have her on the first row of the systens. So how are you selling us this idea that she should be a head coach when you don't even think that she should be front row? Assistant on your team. You you you can't that's not going to work right now after she has been an assistant at that point. Then people are then probably going to listen. And then it becomes a different discussion. Deb with the NFL. We not even talking about like, that's where this needs to start right is developing developing, according to the lines of how these things ordinarily go. That's the only way to go make this work and reason to only way you go make this work is if you wanted somebody that jumps the line, and then that person is ultimately unsuccessful as bad for larger cause. Light is the argument about why you had to make sure you guys. Jackie robinson. And Jackie Robinson, hit when you put him out there. Right. Because I mean, right or wrong stakes at hot. That's what it turns into. But his other people's about his idea Connolly's rise being the Commissioner of the NFL. And I'm looking at that like why in the world what Connolly's rise a wanna be the Commissioner of the NFL? Let's start there. Why would you wanna do that? Like, I imagine that sounds like a really cool job. But. The Commissioner the NFL if we've learned anything from the Raj era, especially NFL any charge nothing. Like Condoleeza Rice. Do you think I have any interest in a job where Jerry Jones tells me what to do? Imagine. I gave you imagine. I gotta get on the phone and Mark Davis is going to lecture me some old white, dude. Even some of the young ones kidding me kind of lease rise. I do what a handlebar moustache out here. Telling me what I shoot it should not do who's the to the handlebar moustache Jacksonville. Oh, Shad Khan. Yeah. He's a good, dude. Though. He's not breaking your union. That's fair point. Yeah. He looked at up. Yeah. Yeah. You think I'm about to be lecture buddies people. You must be crazy. I got no interest in being talked to like this by them, Bob McNair. And you think Bob McNair, showing respect to colonies they don't show respect it a person that's Commissioner to Commissioner is there to do their bidding. If I've Connolly's rice I worked way too hard in my life to work for these dudes. No, no, no. That's not happening. The last time I had a job. My boss was the president of the United States. I'm supposed come here and work for these cats, man, please what what Connolly's rise you think about to come out here. And I gotta come until the stories in front of everybody that they need to sail for them these implausible things that they push out there. Like, what is what is time for them to try to act like a domestic violence as it wasn't as big a deal as we read about. I was supposed to be the wanna go out here and talk about this stuff. Oh my gosh. And be a champion come on. It was this job. Really who wants this job? So I hear people talk about that. I bet that's something that she winds up saying she won't job. She's wildly overqualified for that job Connolly's rights. How'd you wind up getting the job? Well, you know, I was national security adviser. And then I was secretary of state. So the guy before you how did he wind up getting that job? He worked in the office for a long time. That's what this is. Hey, speaking of ridiculous, the Washington Wizards. I remember in the year two thousand ten the Washington Wizards draft the John wall, and I thought John wall, very good NBA prospect so forth, and so on, but the point that I made it a point to make people was the wizards. Well at the time, I was twenty nine years old. And I said I was twenty nine years old in Washington. Wizards head one fifty games in my life. I am now thirty eight years old and the Washington Wizards haven't won fifty games in my life. They have had a team with talent and been in the lesser conference. And they have not won fifty games. We all John wall is good. We all think Brad. Build is good at times, we have thought those guys were very good. They were playing in the east the wizards. Haven't won fifty games in my life now part of them. Now winning fifty games was the fact that they had a coach who had a whiteboard that was reversible. And I want saw him not being able to figure out figure out which way was the right way to draw a play in the huddle you've seen those clips game. I have. I mean, there are many many clips that happened with the whiteboard that owners in rolling on the floor laughing. Yes, he just turns them all around. He can't figure out. I that was not a good sign of what was going on with him. I will tell you another story briefly about the Washington Wizards before we get to their current chaos. I worked an event in two thousand twelve it was actually in New York City. It was at clad phrases widened died. You got a little restaurant over here on the west side. And I was there for draft party. I worked at as be nation. And we were there with Ernie Grunfeld 's son. Ground filled at the time was the general manager of the Washington Wizards. And I know nothing about dude, I wanna say bad, you know. But my media thought there was like, wow, Ernie Grunfeld. He's not a very good general manager like I say that to face another like that. But that was my thought. That was twenty twelve. It's twenty eight teen Ernie Grunfeld is still washing wizard general manager in fed gave do you know what year already Grunfeld became the general manager of the Washington Wizards. Two thousand eight two thousand three oh, man. I was off. Okay. I was too. I had to look it up. It was like wow, two thousand three. So let's think about this for sec. I am thirty eight years old the Washington Wizards having won fifty games in my life. That means that Ernie Grunfeld has been the general manager since two thousand three and they have now won fifty games who gets to keep their jobs, general manager NBA francesa fifteen years, and you weigh one fifty games who who's he got dirt on. I feel like every team in the NBA other than the Hornets have won fifty games in a season in my life. Every single what you pull a team out. And I'll tell you about the time that they want fifty games, right? Even clippers managed to come around and find way to win fifty games, the timber wolves. They've had a season where they won fifty games. The Grizzle the Grizzle of had a year. Maybe even a couple. Where they've won fifty games. If I'm not mistake. Everybody's one fifty games. But these bums no matter what happens they're not gonna find a way to win fifty games. And yesterday, there was just a leak explosion around this team that we've known the problems that they've had we'd getting along and everything else. And we knew this thing was ultimately going explode. If we didn't know it when John wall did day interview where he said he looked at Bradley Beal as side kick, and he looked at himself as one and Bradley Beal as one eight. Brad Bielfeld about that. Don't actually really like each other. At least they don't seem to. It's always been a weird sort of situation that they've had. So we wound up. What was the first league gay Shams came out there? 'cause I can't even remember them in order now. But I know we had all the leaks that drop and the firstly cave Shah's. I gotta go to throws from. Oh, no. I think the world was the second league. I believe the first week was that the wizards had a volatile practice. And Brad Beal said I've been dealing with this bleep for seven years, and then woes put it out there. They John wall had been fined for hidden Scott Brooks would FU and then Candice Buckner of the Washington pose came with the story of what went down. And what went down was that date had the superheated practice in John wall? Almost got into a fight with Jeff green Scott Brooks tried to come over there and break up the fight. And that's when John wall toll Scott Brooks f you and then he apologize apologize teammate the next day. Now, this was all last week. We're just finding out about all this right now. Like, I don't know who decided now's the time to start snitching, but snitching then commits, and it just sounds like you got a whole bunch of dues who really would like to fight each other because they've been around each other for way too long. Long L though, Jeff green just got there as interesting. Remember, Brad Beal said he was like LeBron anyway, all those guys, but you know, who's playing the best on that team this year. Dwight howard. Yeah. Do I gotta be over there? Like, I winning all these tattoos. Why can feed in? And all y'all wanna do is fight. I is crazy. This is nuts. What is going on the wash? It it. Everybody on the team is available for trade. Everybody on the team is available for trade. It keep talking by John wall. You got fifteen percent trae kicker in his deal, and that's gonna make it hard for him to be traded. Some tell me John walls willing to give up fifteen percent at this point on a Goshi it down or something like that. 'cause gave you need a resolution. I mean when you put everyone on the block. Yes, then something's got to happen. Yes. Yeah. We have what we have here is a problem. It is a full on total problem. Everyone has to go that being said part of what is funny about this. It'd be with the wizards is like if you work at like, Ernie Grunfeld, here's priority. Granville guiding this situation like it's not good. What they have going on here. It's a measure of chaos. It is unhealthy. It goes beyond. What you typically have with an MBA franchise. But aren't aground failed as aware that it could in fact, get worse and gave I'm show you how it could get worse. All right. Here's what I want you to do. I want you to take your hand and like put it palm down. Right. You doing at poems down. Okay. Now wants you to turn your hand like ninety degrees clockwise fingers pointed out, you got that got it. All right now, I want you to take your pinky your ring finger and your middle finger and like bring a man like you're making a fist you got. That. All right now. Now what you got left. I want you to point that straight in the air. Oh, yeah. Now, imagine you are in your team huddle surrounded by guys, and you were doing this merely days after you brought a boatload of guns in the locker room and Toews your teammate to pick one to shoot you with. Though, wizards no how much worse things can actually get VIN. This already grow field by be like Dibnah was Jamie Butler was out there active band. Like out of the problem. Is you got to have some matter perspective. It could always get worse than this. I'm in how big of an indictment is it on him. They're willing to trade anybody in house. So that means that nobody that he is brought to the team to build this out is a keeper. Yes. And that this is second place if it's even second place, it ridiculous levels of internal chaos that your team has had. This is not even close to being I like internal chaos for the wizards Gilbert arenas, bringing those guns up. There is like Bob Beamon was for all those years. It's like the flow Joe world record. Nobody's going to break that nobody's going to break that. And there's do still has a job you put together a collection of players that involve do brought his guns to work and dude who by the way is in prison now because after the gun incident he turned into a murderer. How you still got Joe job lie? Scott brooks. Yeah. No. If you've followed me for Tom, I ain't so wild about him as basketball mind, nothing like that. But hey, say what you want about him? You ain't never have nothing like this come out, Oklahoma City. Nothing like this. This is a particular situation that they'd got. And Brad Beal is probably the guy that you probably most wanna keep. But he's also probably the only one you can get the most for in trade. There's some story about Kelly Oubre. Let me go look up what candidate say about Kelly Oubre because I feel like this is actually like a whole the red on this, man. It's like, oh my God. I couldn't get better. Oh, no, Vinny sent Mita thing. I'm just sitting here with my friends, and we're just firing every time. I think I've got a link was going on in Washington. No somebody else has another link. That's more information. Okay. Yes. Brad Beal got into it with Auster rivers. And I think all of us are team on that one. No one's ever rooting for Austin rivers. And that's when he pointed at her any Greg failed said it starts at the top. And they're John wall. John while also got into Jeff green. And that's thing happened there. And then apparently during the game Kelly Oubre ahead a bag of fourth with Scott Brooks. And it sounds more like a fourth than a back and forth. Because sounds a lot more like Kelly Oubre doing this. And by the way, gay according to Kansas Bugner, the Washington Post this happened after three game winning streak. So Windsor and putting your right? This happened after a three game winning streak. This is where they should be riding high riding high. Oh, wow. She wrote a full story about a web. Look it is right now I had seen this before. Let's see if I give details while we're scanning this that. Okay. They say, none of it turned physical. That's good. They were just kinda Holland at each other. Apparently, they had a huddle where what boy they were just like, let's just let it all out. So while the warriors got to be like, yeah. Look at us this way. Although what's worse, the war situation to this? Well, at least with the warriors you have like the best players in the planet on your team. And not all of them went out. The only thing though, with like the wizards I feel like some of these guys can get over it. I don't know if Kevin Durant is ever going to get over. But that's one dude. And if the warriors went back to the team they had before. For him through. So pretty good, by the way, bright side in this John wall apparently immediately apologised after he went off on Jeff green. But if you've got an FU in you towards your coach than the respects already gone. Yeah. I feel like the coach came in when he shouldn't have like like like. Got it. Like, I don't know if the coach it'd been my own business, but like it's so much go at all bed. Oh well. All I can do is laugh glam office like that who. I will be back with if you haven't heard in a minute but first word from SAM's dot com. You know, these days you can give practically everything on demand. Just like the right time. 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Type info money, that's stamps dot com. Enter beaumont. No, you can't be on top of all the news information of the day. No need for the social media feeds, we got you. Now, if you haven't heard money this first story of the day comes from tech. My name is Emily Stewart. And I'm a reporter at box. Mark Zuckerberg isn't going anywhere Facebook at least if he doesn't want to because of the way the company shareholder structure setup Facebook his face a number of controversies in recent months, including the Cambridge at Alaska scandal fake news in Russian interference the New York Times last week posted a bombshell story about its efforts to downplay scandals and the Wall Street Journal reported that Zach told top Facebook executives this year that the company is at war. All this is prompted some questions about whether is good bird who is Facebook CEO and chairman might have too much control of the company, but there's nothing the board directors or investors can do Facebook to make him step down or give up some of his influence. That's because. Facebook has what's called a dual class share structure for its stock their class A-Shares in class b chairs 'cause Asia's which everyday investors can access have one vote per share the class B-shares have ten votes suburb in a small group of insiders hold most of the class b shares. So when it comes time for shareholder votes on items like executive compensation proposed murders necklaces or choosing members of the board or its chairman sucker for the only one who's votes, really matter. He controls about sixty percent of all of the voting chairs. This type of structure isn't uncommon in a lot of companies. Have it the argument for it is that it lets founders and executives focus on the company's long-term practices. But critic said inflate some too much and doesn't make them accountable. There have been pushes that Facebook to change the structure from some shareholders. But they haven't stuck again because convert start up the only one whose opinion matters under the current system. If Mark Zuckerberg does wind up stepping, now's chairman or CEO or making some other changes role Facebook, it'll be. On his own accord. I'm good with that. Because I'm just here for everything Facebook does right or wrong. This is all on us bird as Burg's. So good is shaking all this stuff off into the all, shucks dot and everything else. Now, man, this is you all this stuff that is being wrought by the machine that you have built by your Frankenstein. It is all you. You are the one who is in charge. I don't wanna hear nothing about. No samba. Nobody else you'd wanna got to answer for every single bidder. This 'cause you want you. Hey, I don't blame. You wanna keep your company, not even mad at you. But you got it. Good. Look and him saying he wants to start like an independent counsel to see if they can review some of the controversial content moderation decisions. In in. He is he was having him. Also is too old to be able to hide and the way he could before. Right. Like, there was a certain like boy wonder sort of quality to this. Now, man, you just rich do like the rest of the second story is more about personal tech than detect business. I'm Jeffrey Fowler tech columnist at the Washington Post photography has never been about just capturing reality. But the latest smartphones are increasingly taking photos into uncharted territory. I've been using a new mode on Google pixel phone called night site. That has a superpower can see things that are is cannot anybody who's used a smartphone. Or even a pro camera knows how hard it is to shoot in the dark, but taking photos with night-sight made my friends in a dim candlelight bar. Look like they brought a lighting crew at midnight scape. Lit up like the afternoon using night-sight left me with two thoughts. I this is awesome. And you've got to see the examples in my column or that I've heard on Twitter and second this is totally super fake the pixels. Hardly alone. And moving away from reality. The iphones portrait mode applies made up blurred backgrounds selfish on phones popular in Asia. Automatically slim heads Brighton is with skin and most recent phones, he's technique called HDR that merges multiple shots to produce. A kind of hyper tone version of reality. Phone cameras are breath becoming like hightech beer, goggles, your camera less as a reflection of reality and more of an artificial intelligence trying to make you happy. It's fake tastic. Now, some people have taken issue with my use of the word fake to describe my night-sight shots, but these shots were very far removed from what my eyes saw in the moment and their colors and tones were chosen by a computer, not by nature. It might be an academic concern if we weren't actually talking about a hobby not to mention the memories of about a third of humanity. That's how many people now use smartphones. How far will the AI in phones remove our photos from reality? What might software tweet us to think looks normal. What parts of images are we letting computers? At it out bring on the debate. So basically any place can be six flays your phone. We put any background behind you use anywhere you want. And I don't necessarily have a problem with the idea that you can do that gay what I'm trying to figure out is how people just going to be flat out line. I mean, there was a story. I believe that we did on if you haven't heard not too long ago where people could basically pay to have like an augmented or just like an alternate reality for their vacation photos, or it's like, here's me and the Grand Canyon. Here's me huge me in this place. I mean, this is a little bit different because it's like changing and existing image. It's like, oh, you're there. It's just now. Daytime and sit at nighttime. I mean, that's gonna change the game in terms of the way you're going to be able to post vote. But also the way you're going to be able to take photos of others when they're like, unsuspecting. And it's oh it's too dark dark to see who let me try and do this. And it's like, Nope. Gotcha. Yeah. And also going to be used for purposes. This is all I hear in this man, people care way too much about pictures. Like, there's anything I've learned people way too much about. Hey, where are you share them? How you share people get way too much about pictures, the Bose active on the grim for the for? The right time. Outside of that. No, man. I want off all of it. All right, this last story also comes from the business technology. I'm afraid chief technology correspondent for axios for actually on HBO show. Mike Alan, and I sat down with apple CEO, Tim, cook and got a glimpse intake his thinking on range of issues from his own personal style. And schedule to some of the big issues confronting the tech industry, including privacy in screen time as well as how apple seasons business going forward. Some of the areas of technology. It's interested in especially admitted reality one of the issues it's getting the most attention is his turn my question around. If apple is so concerned round privacy. In makes this big deal that unlike the other big tech companies it isn't trying to sell your information. Why does it take billions of dollars of year from Google which is trying to make money off of users information so Google pays apple that money to be the default search engine on Macs and ipads, iphones and. Answer was a very reasonable one. That apple basically takes all the precautions at cannon ties to limit. The amount of information that Google or anyone else advertising on the web gets about users. But then it thinks Google is the best search engine out. There is other insights were pretty interesting ranging from the fact that he gets up at four A M each day. He reads an hour of user feedback. And then he goes to the gym. So he can work on the stress levels to how he uses the phone. He's talked about how you used in a lot of hours a day. And he said he's still using it several hours a day. But he has noticed. He's thanks to the tools. They put in picking it up lesson getting fewer notifications a minimum privacy. I think this is going to be a big selling point for apple going forward. They wanna make the case that day care about your privacy that it's a core value, and that was something that came up over and over the other issue talked a lot about is reality. So the idea of a digital overlay on the real world, and Tim cook has made it clear that he has a preference for this over virtual reality where it's an entirely virtual digital reality. And he showed. A example took us out on the soccer field at apple. We looked at this. Apple you can map out what your garden might look like, you know, when he talked about this as an important technology going forward something that will extend beyond just sharing the screen like the iphone ipad. But obviously he wouldn't say when apple might have goggles. Those were some of the insights he can read more about our interview and see the key points at actually dot com or sign up for my daily newsletter logging at get logging thought actually start com. The cook. Dos about one regulation. Yeah. No. We don't have to get these folks in on some level of another like that part, then becomes obvious. But I do find interesting when he talked about how you slow down notifications on his phone, and 'cause I had the screen time app. And I find I use the phone because he kind of scared me straight to a degree. But I've never been big on notifications y'all really want all these after tell y'all all the time. What's going on the thing about it is to that drains your battery the more notifications that you do get. Yeah. But I've never like I figured out real quick on the phone that I did not need all of these like, I'm not gonna have all this stuff just jumping out in my face with my phone comes out, just as a general thing. I had no idea that people were really here ride like especially for things that ring often. Oh, no, no, no can't be that. This is also where it gets on for him where he's like, man. We're hardware company. Exactly. That's a big part. It is interesting though that that apple take so much money from Google being like Goto search engine. Yes, it's a little passive aggressive is that a fair way to put it. It is. Is the him saying that? Okay. Well, they are the best search engine. So we're we're not dipping into the same waters that they are. Yeah. Okay. Y'all own on water. Even if at eight say, what is between the two y'all y'all got all to water. Hey, this is Bomani. You have reached the right voice mails, say whatever you want get creative with it. But this is Joe place to talk back to show a top back fix. All right, though with the holiday coming up on Thursday in only doing one show this week. We decided to put out for the best things giving stories whether it was the craziest fight just the craziest thing that has happened on thanksgiving for you. We got some pretty good ones. Are I from Allen Dallas of oh, man. This is our from from Dallas band. I I had to tell the story man because of being from Dallas, you know, be football family, and of course, huge Cowboys fan so thanksgiving special and to my day, you know, it was always wanted at home. I'm plugged the phone. We not having. No 'cause like family came over like you've got to go around three when the games because my day, you know, not be in a row. Well, all of our family is in Houston and to really supposed to go down in Houston on thanksgiving because of the Cowboys game, you know, what I mean, in the way my. Day watch watches. We didn't always make the trip because the way to Houston. The way down with always you know, what I mean to the way my dad like what game this year? Remember mom, of course, wanted to go. See your sisters. We've made the trip down. And so it was the year. Whatever year was that the Cowboys play the prophets. It was Dane actually was long. Rundown running back. And so our member we weren't winning and my band in like noise man, and we were getting killed run game all over me and vice like ruin Dame and her my dad was whose and of course, all the background fans. Other teams laughing happy thanksgiving, right? And my dad wouldn't wouldn't have it? So we kind of sued. On what game, you know, whatever they like I would ever go back to the game. So that. There's noise kept coming from the back and we losing. Say. Heard was my daddy. Get up. Girl. Couple Hanes have a couple of words, we ain't been back to using the thanksgiving. Same. Oh, man. Here scrap it out of somebody else's house about the Cowboys. That's where I wanted to include this one because I wanted to get into the Cowboys Dallas and Houston dynamic a little bit. Even that is just that did today that all Cowboys fates eight is what had enough of it say there's plenty Cowboys as he was it. There's not no raging Texans. Cowboys rivalry is dude is salty about the Cowboys wanted peace and quiet to watch the game at someone else's house. By the way, he didn't wanna come to. That's the key variable. And then hasn't been back since. Yes. Well, it's kinda hard to after that one would think. All right. A second from read it in Baltimore. Hey. Coming from Baltimore. My family. My parents uncle them. Three of them had raven season tickets that they all went on thanksgiving. We were getting together and parents. My dad went argument because this particular year the ravens were playing Christmas tickets came up about one we'll all three of them went to win. So it didn't argue me, and is almost blown prone to the point where we just kind of them on different table. So twenty minutes later, I'd say we had dinner serve and always been known to be that fast eater eat. He's entire plate of food. They like side minutes. So of course, this and and it I think if they start like realize. So he's like choking. And so the only person that really like. He just sat there and watch like she's been my body like slowly leading cause like this is getting bad, and we're paying finally my dad gets up and gives them be most at wrestler, when you maneuver I've ever seen in my entire life and finally something tops out of throat, you can breathe, but he was closer death. And I'm pretty sure if the rest of us weren't they my dad was probably gonna let that all because of some tickets football game craziest moment ever seen in my life. Way to Dr ravens purple man. That's cold cold tickets, hogwash stuff. Even doing the Heimlich maneuver with a little extra something five, by the way extra stuff that is broken ribs. I mean, the thing about the Heimlich maneuver to is it doesn't always work if you're just going to let them in go to the Heimlich maneuver like that then you're I mean, really some extra something with that one. Yes. This last from Marvin C T, Bomani. More from Connecticut. Crazy. Thank you the story about like ninety eight fourteen so. Regular thanksgiving. And so I don't know what was going on. What like those? They all look on his face. I guess they I don't know what was going on. And so mostly they found out that my uncle had another child which no one knew about who. And so they were like, hey, all, you know, kids. Go stairs, whatever. And like we find out this whole other. Title. And like my aunt was your ears of yours was how you going bearish me like this like in there. And so later, all we, you know, we find out, you know, he had a child with this woman that was over different persuasion if you could have denied. Shore photo the baby crying his eyes were like mine. Oh my goodness. All here with high going bears me, and my mother told me later on what had happened, and you just heard like just. They bring in. All right now. Right now. Buddy. So it was crazy. I was down like a whole thing. But I wasn't grown so stairs. That's really it. Boy. Yeah. Baby. Turn enough at the holiday man who good especially when you have everybody together. So there's no sort of lake dissemination of the story where kind of like gets distorted in any way or has to reach different members of the family at different times based on who's like in the need to know. Nope. It's like everybody finds out at the same same time. How you going barris me as all downhill? Grandpa to age to do this right now. I'm just trying to have right now. Relax. That's it. I'm not trying to do this. I'm not trying to deal with this right now hit the third rail of America American culture who you had that baby with. Yeah. Next level. Today's. Yeah. Yeah. Happy holidays just days. We'll get to have you k-. But ladies gentlemen, thanks for joining us here on the right time. We try to do this thing. Twice a week Mamane Gabe s ain't handles everything behind the scenes. Thank you, sir. Also, thank you to our sponsors stamps dot com and Robin Hood, also thanks contributors on if you haven't heard thanks to Emily Stewart. She works at checkout. Her story on Mark Zuckerberg, reaching untouchable status, vox dot com. Thank you Jeffrey Fowler of the Washington Post. Check his story about Google pixel flipping pictures making night day making day night. Check that out the Washington Post dot com. And thank you enough read. She is the tech correspondent axios. You could check out her mailing list. And everything else does she said a little bit earlier in the show, and she had article about Tim cook. Remember, check us out. Subscribe. That is at ESPN apple podcast, where get your podcast rate is review gives five stars. You only goes four stars. I'm a to. Thank you are a hater. We will be off. Our second episode this week as we go. Take the holiday take it easy. Thanks for checking out the right time with money Jones podcast. You can listen or subscribe on the ESPN app apple podcasts or every listen to podcasts. The right time with the money Jones.

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1-on-1 | Fred Katz on Kobe, Wizards, Westbrook

The Free Agents

1:07:24 hr | 9 months ago

1-on-1 | Fred Katz on Kobe, Wizards, Westbrook

"Welcomes dunks. I'm task smells here. With the Fella skeets trae Lee and J D and we're very excited to have in studio Washington Wizards beat writer for the athletic critic and host of Wizards after dark wizards post game podcast. He used to cover the thunder. He loves a good pun. Fred Katz is in the building. Fred thanks so much for joining us. It's amazing to be with the guys who do the PUN gun. Incredible experience for me. We will get to that later. I we gotta start with the sad news The most important news that rock the NBA on Sunday. And you were down at the hawks and the wizards touching stuff happening all over the place with the the the violation twenty four second violation eight second violation to start the game. trae young wearing the number eight for those two violations and than sharing a stories post game just give us the feeling of what it was like to be in that building it. It was so weird because like and I was. I was talking about this people last night. You you when you go through tragedy you you kind of want to turn to things. There's distractions whatever. Whatever those distractions might be in your life and for a lot of us? It's just sports. And it was weird going to the sporting event but having that. Be The opposite of the distraction. Having that be the memorial you and didn't know where to turn and it's weird because everybody talked to either new Kobe or knew someone who knew him knew his family It was it was such a just just dark and horrible experience. I think for just everybody involved it. It felt like nobody really wanted to be there right now. How could you down after going through it though? Do you think looking back that they should have played. The Games was it Was it therapeutic for people. Was it good for players to just get thrown into the fire to be able to instead of be sitting at home and grieving to be able to be with their colleagues who are sharing the same experiences them. I don't know I thought about it a lot. I kind understand both perspectives Friday. Thomas no like Isaiah Thomas. He was super close. We Kobe and he said after the game that he thought the Games should have been canceled. And that's that's a perfectly legitimate Way To feel I think everybody Kinda Grebes and their own way. I'm sure there were players. I think it was was was quite right. WHO said last night? Kobe would have wanted them to lighten US I think. Everybody just kind of grieves in in their own way. Kyrie Irving you know. Miss last night's game for personal reasons reasons dozens like everybody just needs to handle it in their own way I. I don't know what the League could have done. 'cause it it must have been. I imagine just so difficult. That rockets game was about to tip off when when when the news came out and must have just been so difficult from a logistical perspective. To figure out what to do in such a short time frame so I don't think it's worth like making any sort of criticism of the league. 'cause I don't I can't imagine a away that you could handle that. Well you know So I don't know I imagine it's different different for everybody all you've you've already written about The game your experience there. Do you mind sharing with us here. The Players Tribune story about Kobe. That you shared In your article too. Yeah Yeah I love that story so I was. I was chatting with with with someone who worked at the the Players Tribune like years ago. Mad this conversation with this person like must've been it was. It was years ago for sure not too long after. Kobe wrote dear to your basketball. This person told me that you know during player's Tribune. The players aren't aren't writing a lot of that. What unbelievable a dairy just hacking away at the computers? It's it's unbelievable that like Kevin Durant is not walt. Whitman believed Kris Humphries swimming stories. I believe I believe he probably did. He probably Kris Humphries being a being a legitimate amazing swimmer and beating. Michael Phelps is one of the most incredible uh-huh Niche Mba things But yeah so the players don't really read that's Joe and in view and and ghost rider will will first now first person nor or maybe they'll write something and they'll get heavily edited. They'll go in and that makes perfect sense because it's all the stuff on there is really well written so so it makes perfect sense and this person told me that the only piece that they ever received and the person was like you have to run this. This is perfect. Don't edit it. It's beautiful was when Kobe sent into your basketball and they're like this is really good i. It's Kobe like what what are we gonNA do. I guess we just run it. They ran it and then he turns into animated short and it wins Oscar. And and it's like this this and I just think it's so I didn't know Koby but I just think it so from everything that you hear about him. Read about him the way he talked about. The Mama mentality is a lifestyle and not basketball persona. I just I always thought that story was incredible and so I hit up this a person yesterday and I was like you have to let me tell this story it is. It is such a great way to kind of remember his character. I thought and so I so I wrote that yesterday I was phenomenal and it was great. Include that. There's there's stories coming out of that. That hawks wizards game as well. Just showing how as you said the mentality dedicated to what he did Dedicated also now to his in the past few years since his retirement to children and trae young talked about post game how gee-gee Janna his his his late daughter now was loving the way trae young was playing basketball so kobe reached out to trae. Young's trainer and hand made that connection for gee-gee to be able to train with that trainer because he wanted to see that connection. He wanted that for his child and I thought that was a great story. And that's how they're sort of relationship Koby trae young's relationship sort of blossomed It was great. I I don't know how a lot of these guys stood on the podium post game and and verbally eloquently were able to tell their stories but trey was and You know I think it was all in all. I think it was therapeutic and it was very very very difficult for people but I think it was sort of. It was a good thing in the end but We can move on now to a little wizards talk. What we what we booked you in here for? Everyone's favorite thing a while ago wizard style. I love honestly in all honesty that we have because we came in late last night to do podcasts talking about Kobe and trying to wrap our heads around our feelings links and like I think like most people. I'm sure listen to this today or whenever they're listening to it are still like in a funk. Sad obviously grieving. I know I am but I we'll say love C- and Fred Katz as face it in the studio. He's got a great logo looking Guy Smiley Guy so I'm happy that brought by no means all we're moving on already yourself like like that but it is a little bit back to business and I'm happy that you're here today even around these weird unfortunate circumstances. Well I'm very excited to be here. I think you guys you guys provide a wonderful experience. Make people laugh when they need to try to. We got a great Kobe story from the World Cup. Yeah uh-huh trying to. I'm trying to dig it up if I can if I can clip I just. It's on a drive. I'm trying to see if I can access the drives. GD sorry you already been slacking man. Let's let's talk some wizards because it's not as depressing as it seemed to be coming into the season. I think they should true. That's that's that's that's true because I think there are some likable characters. I it has. It has been a positive viewing experience for the casual. NBA Fan too. They look they watch some of these games and they say well I like these guys. You know Roy Moore is very like Wolf Guy you mentioned the new Isaiah Thomas Their stories like `Davis bertone's garrison Matthews Matthews in general has covering the wizards. It's been fun this year. Yeah actually has it. Has the the. The defense is is wild fifty. Two on Sunday. They gave up to the Atlanta Hawks. Well I'm pretty sure that. The Hawks and wizards have been involved in every one hundred and fifty point game. So far this year no So that one of them would score one. Fifty two against the other is is pretty perfect. It's wild I mean John Collins had about seven hundred sixty dunks in the first three minutes of that game and I had no reaction to them. Right this is what it's supposed to look like. But they've what's weird about it and kind of tells a tale of expectations and how they affect the way we watch things is that. This team has pacing to win fewer games than last year's team in which one thirty two this year. They're fifteen and thirty and yet. The vibe could not be more different this year than it was last year. Last year was was a was a really depressing locker room The the kind of had strife at the beginning of the year and then I thought it just kind of turned very apathetic and going through the motions by the end of the year. Everyone could tell very excited for the season ends like everybody not just the players. Just everybody I think the coaching staff Scott Brooks. Everybody was just like let's move onto next year and make this happen. They tore it down brought in all new people. They have a good locker room now. They get along really well look they. Don't play defense but like this is the classic case of just not having defensive ability. They play hard. Try really hard. It's not like last year. They didn't play defense because they just wouldn't rotate eight. Jeff Green had like an eleven game stretch where he didn't have an offensive rebound. He was playing the four for the entire time. Dimaggio like it was amazing a- and that was the vibe last year but this year like giving up one forty but they're they're scoring one twenty five in Jordan mccray is randomly randomly going for twenty four off the bench and likable personalities. And it's just a different sort of feeling. And how do they talk about their defensive struggles like just a known thing within the locker room even thought good on that. Yeah yeah like I think One of them could be listening to this podcast and hearing everything I just said and instead of coming up to me tomorrow and being like what are you doing talking about like that. They would just be like yeah right yeah. They're they're very they're very self-aware. I think they've given up enough points that I haven't checked where their defense efficiency is after last night But they had the second worst since the NBA started tracking per possession data nineteen ninety-six wall to last night. And I guess after giving up fifty two it might have gone up. Well when David Aldridge the Great Hall of Famer David Aldridge John. The athletic is using the acronym. DFL Dead last to explain the wizards efficiency on defense. What's that is something? I mean he used a story that I said that out loud yesterday. Well reading that. There's something going going on. But you said that strike free. And that's what they've been making headlines for the last few years that's those are the headlines. There's something going on marching gortex. Get into John Wall Etcetera Etcetera et CETERA. That must be nice that that happened. I see people like to read about the drama. I hate covering the drama. Like it's so much more fun to to just be around people who like each other. You know from a personal perspective. It's more fun to cover the positive things even though they lose like garrison matthews. That was a fun story. Yawn Miami threes threes is is no one in the world. Okay so Kevin Arnovitz set on a podcast hot cast not long ago that the most exciting second in basketball is when John Marantz in the air. And you don't know what he's GonNa do in. I think it's when Yama Hemas Ah agrees with me. So he's loving it he's just love and he's like I got the green light I'm John McCain yet can shoot any three I want. Is that actually actually the philosophy. They're like anybody can shoot. Doesn't matter legit worked really hard on shooting threes for like years and just finally implemented it but he he is so proud. He's so proud because he worked so hard at it. And he's so proud and he gets so giddy whenever he makes three and yon is like beloved as a teammate. And so everyone else is real orem. Everyone else gets so excited because they have the same reaction that we do whenever Yom raises for three the and like he hits you watch practice and open gymnast just draining them over and over again. This is like a a Doodoo would never step out for years ago. And it's it's it's hilarious. It's great when he hit his first career three last year. I vividly remember him walking out of the locker room. He's got three daughters and walk. Yeah the locker room with like his young daughter maybe three years older. So He's holding her and I see them from afar and I just see him go hold up his fingers and go no no one two three. It was adorable moments long. Have you been covering the wizards now year. And a half year and a half and before that you're covering the thunder for how long in total for them little over two years. Okay Where you covered the celtics taste? Just I just I I cover the Celtics for as long as one possibly can without covering celtics game. I went in the week after they lost in the conference finals and and left the day before Media Day quibbles. That's tremendous how especially with the thunder and Westbrook being on that team. Yeah is it. Is it completely different. The vibe of the of the locker room the organization. Yeah it is. Oh yeah yeah I mean westbrook. Locker Room is just totally different from any other kind of locker room. You know where Especially when the media is in there. I'm I'm sure it's different when when the media is but when the media is in there you you almost feel like you have to whisper we. You can't distract anything you have to be as unseen as you possibly can you. I would very rarely the pre-game even go. You know. I had a good relationship with Stephen Adams and I would very rarely even go to Steven. Adams is locker pre game just to ask him who's doing have a conversation with him because his locker was on the side of the locker and the RUSSES was on. And we like just you don't broach that territory. Unless you absolutely had to almost us so I would end up. pre-game talked to anybody. I would go talk to Jeremy. Grants or Alex Rodriguez just because they're just because the geography. Yeah let's just very very different and that's from a media perspective but it was you know. This locker room is like like loud. The Wizards there's one is loud and boisterous and much younger right and you know they're like you're not walking on eggshells. No not in the least like you can in you know you. Can you can have conversations with guys and just 'cause to me. The the best part of the game is of the job is not like walking up to people and interviewing them. It's it's being able to go up to John Wall and being like you see Zion's debut how how crazy was that seventeen point stretch and then John's idea was amazing and then you're just talking basketball with people who have this unbelievable basketball knowledge. Like how cool is that you know and so being able to do that. It's so much fun for me but that must have been crazy though with westbrook. Broken Stephen Adams because Stephen Adams seems the opposite that he'll talk about anything and he's loose and carefree so when you got him there and you got Russell Westbrook there you still. I wanted to stay away from from Steven. Didn't want to go in and see what game. Yeah Yeah pre-game for sure because it just wasn't it wasn't worth making my life more difficult. Usually I could torment another time and in in that would kinda be it. So yeah yeah it was just. It's it's difficult to cover a WESTBROOK team. You kind of have to figure out ways to like yeah like you can. You can try to win the battle but like probably going to lose the war. Feel the whisper respected. You now got it all very few people respect. Okay even my mother wizards. I don't blame him for that. What was it that Steve Analogies to say at the end of a scrum fare thee? Well Golden Horses. I asked him what you say all the time so good I asked him one so what that meant and he said. I don't know me just trying English. It must be a little bit different. Yeah different Stevens Jim now. Yeah he is is genuinely one of the funniest people I've ever met. Yeah have you crossed path with him since you've been story on him like a month and a half ago or so about how he walks around barefoot. Yeah that's right. Yeah yeah he's. He's a character. I love that that can be a story. Yeah Stephen Adams that can be story. Well the story story was like I. It started two and a half years ago because I saw him bring sandals and shorts in Utah. What are you doing it was it was like December knbr January and I was like what are you doing wearing sandals and shorts in Utah shorts every? Sometimes I don't work samples at all is walk around barefoot and he's just like sometimes just he just shows up to work sometimes just literally not wearing shoes. It's it's it's unbelievable Ebel and and so it started there and then I just hit up the thunder and I was like I really want to do this story. All it is is just a showcase of Stevens personality. Like I've just let's just put a microphone face if I start asking about feet. He's GonNa say some weird stuff. Yeah so so. Let's just let's just showcase Stevens personality and we'll use the the barefoot thing as vehicle to let Steven be really funny and the appeal. The story is just going to be looking at all. These hilarious quotes from Stephen Adams and orange. And that's why it was a story. Went Chris Paul. Bought all of his teammates suits and Steven Adams actually work actually wore pants. Yes that was the story because he worked pants. Incredible all right. Let's get back to the wizards just for for a brief moment. Here you've said everybody is jovial. There is a guy who was frustrated Bradley beal the best player. He's frustrated with the play. In general he did sign a quote unquote contract extension Shen this season I say quote unquote because it's a year plus a player option. I saw that and I said okay. He's giving the team sometime to to turn things around but really it's just a one year extension in in all actuality he's going to be there for three twenty twenty two player option for twenty two twenty three but he can be traded next year. I bring that up. Because 'cause he's frustrated. How long can he stay? Frustrating for I can can this go on for. He's obviously dedicating himself he's he talked to. Chris Agnes's wiki compared himself to Damian Lillard as one team type of guy. Ideally but is it will it boil over at some point. Do you think it will broil over if they start to win when John Wall comes back next year. That's that's when he's fine. I think he's frustrated. 'cause they lost fifty last year and they're gonNA lose fifty plus again this year and he doesn't like to lose and I I don't agree. You know when Brad said that stuff about being frustrated with the culture and you know then he was asked about the culture You Know How's the culture after changing said start winning games. I don't agree with the people who compare that to to Kevin Kevin Love in Cleveland. I think it's okay to sign an extension knowing that the team is not going to be good and then still be frustrated when the team's not good. I don't think that's the same thing thing as putting public displays of of being pissed off And showing it on the court and letting it affect your play a and and and your leadership. It's different when he just like kind of have a moment when you say it in a post game interview and doing that on the court you know. I think you're allowed to be upset when you lose No matter whether you extended or whether you desperately want out I think for Brad. His number one choice is like he wants to to win in Washington and he's said it many times like I think he's he's big on the on the dirk thing I think that dirk title really really affected him in that he's a big believer like that one title that Dirk God after being there for what was it thirteen years at the time right after being there for thirteen years and he they had all those playoff failures failures and all those struggles and they go through it and carries them to a title like he wants that Gary said idea that one title can only mean more than one in five or something like that. Yeah one special like he did say that tickers this. Yeah so so. They opened up in Dallas this year and I was talking to him and I was talking to him. Just about the concept of loyalty. And we're there and Gallus and what is what is loyalty to you. And I think he got little frustrate you got. I know he got a little frustrated with me because I think he thought that I was like Questioning that's Genera. Whether or not he was being honest and And he said to me like no loyalty is that any pointed to the Dirk Silhouette back on the court and gals was like. That's what I want. I want that and I think he's being genuine in that So I think I think he would like to win the most in Washington that that being said if if they don't get their stuff together and they don't start to win at some point I don't think and you know this is just me just talking. I don't know if like it's a thing it's like all stay here for twenty years even if we lose fifty games for sixteen of them I. I don't think that's going to be the case So the wizard say they want to try to win next year. John Walls coming back and they're going to have another high pick in their young guys. The reaction of the world will get a little bit older. I think they will be better. We'll see what they do this summer But but you know the I would not say. The clock is ticking at all all with Brad like it's three years it's too early for this But his his hardest for shirt in DC. I don't know if it's the way he carries himself to. I always forget Bradley. Beal only twenty six. He seems like a more. He's a vest very right but in my head I'm like. Oh yeah you gotta start thinking about like trying to get that ringling. He's not in any rush by. He's still very young. He's at the very beginning of his prime. Yeah he's just a very polished person so he comes off as as older allies are like. I'm four years older than him and I don't I don't feel like I'm way you're not in your prime. Just you know I spend way too much time in my underpants. The Stephen Adams. Well I think the the point about It's just the way he carries himself is important because he also it's it's important as far as basketball goes to because he also doesn't go out there on social media he's not he's not a talker out there And so he feels. I've heard him talk about his lack of exposure sort of hurt his wrap around the league and potentially His all star parents. He talked about him. Not Being. You know pretty low in the fan vote. I think he was ninth overall guards. Even though he's a two time all star and this year I get because he's a great player. Do you think that that lack of exposure sort of hurts his wrap around the league or is it just sort of with fans and I guess you can go into whether or not you think. You'll be named a reserve on Thursday Thursday when TNT announces the reserves. I do think he'll be named reserve. I think the coaches tend to reward the guys who have been there So I I write the you know. The players ranked him extremely high fans obviously did not. Yeah I mean I think I don't know it's hard to say. It hurts his wrap around the league because he did finish second in the player vote but at the same time last year. He was the last pick in the all-star draft and so it's a weird or just playing in DC. Yeah I mean up up. DC It's work DC's a great high school basketball market and yet the wizards fan base is is not too large and is not that passionate And so you know the wizards have to be really good to get on national. TV Games and that kind of stuff. I don't know how much that affects players. I feel like players tend to a big difference between players and fans his players. I think more so tend to prioritize the guy who can just square you up and get a bucket against you Bradley. Beal condensed exemption twenty-eight a game and he's running an offense that we all thought did not very much talent coming into the year and is in the top half of the league inefficiency see now doubled doubled every single game. Yes I I think the players I would say the players do respect him because of the way the coaches coach's game plan against them because the players guard him because he was second in the player. Vote I mean that's probably the best example. Yeah Yeah but but not being famous has to hurt them in the Fabio. Yeah I mean I mean not being famous comparatively obviously but he also like I. I think I don't think it bothers him that much because he doesn't go out of his way to do this stuff like I he. He doesn't really care that much about going. And doing national commercials. Listen and being really famous and trying for you really likes memes. Does he enjoy being enjoys bustle. He must have loved the whole interaction. The Fan Sean. Classic he he. He recreated it with the wizards twitter account right. Yeah yeah he he he he enjoys being named I. I don't think I'll ever say it out. No one becomes means. That often and doesn't doesn't isn't in on the joke right so he he definitely enjoys that but other than that like he's he's not trying for for massive national deals like he just he's not very attention seeking which makes him less I think contributes that pro polished personality and make some kind of a Not Very celebrity type personality and certainly makes them more relatable but a young also. It's not GonNa make them is famous. Yeah I did see him. He was pissed about the fan. Vote but yeah you're right. I guess he's not into but he's just not into the the whole. AM On instagram. He just wants to hang out with his family hanging out with his kids. How fiance streaking wholesome fun blunt? Speaking of his fiancee he had a baby a couple years ago. He's got two under two now and he said he gained a lot of sympathy weight. You you gain. You actually joined the wizard right when he had that child. So did you see. He said gained twenty pounds of pizza and ice cream. That's what he said. It was just late night. Pizza and ice cream. Did you see see that in in the panda in the Big Fan. You'RE GONNA ask me if I gained sympathy. I Love I've been I've been gaining unintentional sympathy weight for years. Everyone you're ready so much bad stuff in the world guys I need I did. I know I did not notice the sympathy weight. I wish I had a question. Would that be in a scrum now. Post game don't do it. Follow up the Defense Ben and Jerry's brand. We've we've seen recently John Wall pre game. He's working out. You know you see the clip while Joel Stern looks amazing. What what is the latest on on him coming back from the injury where what we know? What are you know as the wizards beat reporter I I? I still don't expect the comeback this year. I think when he comes back he wants to be like back. And there's no rush it's not like like they're pushing for the play offs and I think one thing that we have to remember and it's really important. Is that when people watch him. And he's going against is player development staff or whatever it is and it's it's fun. It's really cool to watch that kind of stuff and be able to sit there and watch John Wall when we ever. You know our our camera phones Watched John Wall Dunk and then step down because he just Kinda Mrs Performing Ask Ball Player. You know like that's always fun experience but when you watch that stuff yet to remember it's not not it's not just about the Achilles healing. They they have to work on everything else like demarcus. Cousins is the saddest example of this right where he he comes back from an Achilles and then has a compensatory injury and so it's not just about like healing the Achilles your subconsciously doing so much other stuff with your body you need to get into premier shape and on top of that you need to. It's not just like having a six pack. It's it's it's realizing that you're actually subconsciously. Putting fifty three percent of your body weight on one side when used to put fifty. And that makes you more likely to an injury on the other side. You know there are all these things you have to sort out now. I don't think anybody John Wall include really wants to have him rush back and then have have another bad thing thing happened to him So I don't think I don't think John Is. I don't get the impression that John is pushing them right. I have to come back. I have to come back and I don't get the impression that they're they're pushing him. I think everybody involved from the doctors to the team to John Himself wants to be as cautious as possible. That's why even though I think it's possible we get to a point at the end of the year. We're like in March. It's like John. Wall can technically play basketball. I don't predict that he's going to start next. Season is when the dealer back. Yeah I mean his rehab from everything I hear and everything I see is right on track. And they don't seem to be any seem. The time line seems to be pretty pretty much what they expected. So yeah I would everything everything I hear. It seems like he'll be back for next year. They're planning on winning. You said next year they hope to win. At least next year they got yamashina Muhima shooting threes this year. No big deal. What's the team going to be? He likes then when wall comes back because he'll be somewhat diminished as a player missing a season and a half in that same time. Bill has become an all star. Hell probably make the All Star game twice since John Wallace Out there were rumors of those guys not getting along in the past. There was the big blow up at practice with bill when he was upset then beal seems like he should be the number one guy when John Wall gets back but wall also doesn't seem like a guy that's just going to be chilling in the corner waiting for somebody to kick him the ball. Yeah I also think people always talk about it from personality perspective. There's just the style just the stylistic one I mean John Wall and Bradley beal had stylistic contrast the last time that John Wall was healthy right talked about just from a basketball not a personality fit and I actually do think I've only been on for a year and a half in. It's it's plausible. Their Relationship Jeff has has progressed and improved during this time but from I see them together a lot and they they seem to get along really well And I personally have not witnessed the the relationship stuff that was put out about them before But it's always possible like when when guys stop playing together they just treat each other as people and not basketball. WHO's getting older for sure that stylistic contrast awesome the court just doesn't come into play in the relationship when bit you know and and I think they both like each other as people a lot on the court though stylistically the last time John and Brad play together John was healthy and like I don't consider last year jumping healthy because he played through the bone spurs in everything? Brad was a different player wasn't wasn't he wasn't running as much pick and roll. He wasn't the guy who is getting doubled off the dribble. He wasn't getting to the Rim all the time. He was much more of the catch and shoot guy that he was when he came into the League and so it's not even John Wall and Bradley. Beal have to kind of get back to playing together. How they did before? John Almost has to relearn learn. Who Brad is? Because he's he's a different player than he was two or three years ago. He just has a different skill set and plays a different style and his best when you use them a different way so I think it's possible muscle especially in two thousand twenty like we've seen the more ball handlers. The better like that is the way optimize offense. You want as many ball handlers and creators heaters on the floor so I believe like as a basketball person that the more ball hammers you can add the better but you need you. Need a coach is going to be able to sort that out. Well you need players. Who are who are willing to figure out how to contribute in other ways? And that means John Wall figuring out how to be effective off off the ball You know cut cut better and maybe improve his jump shot but specifically cut better. People don't realize I realized this started covering John. John is a basketball savant. Point it is crazy talking about basketball with him so I think he has percents. He knows every play knows. It's the Lebron stuff and how Lebron on tracks back plays games ago or eight years ago this game of the season we did this and then they countered with that can tell you what all ten players did on the floor can tell you why they you get it. It's it's almost like it's almost like you know when you like. A great lawyer can argue either side of any case. That's kind of John. You Watch it and make this kind of reckless turnover and he will give you an extraordinarily in-depth XS knows answer wiedeman that turnover and like yeah. But it's still over when he had such an intelligent the reason for doing it right any snow so much more than I do so I don't really know what to think of this. It's it's kind of an amazing experience covering him in that way and so I think John for sure her has the intellectual capacity to figure out how to be better moving off the ball and that stuff I mean. We'll see how how it meshes when they're back I don't know but but I do think there's a world in which they figure out how to make it work. It is one of the more fascinating relationships in the NBA. Because the casual fan will say oh. They don't like each other but Bradley beal signs on and he must believe that it can work to some degree and he did mention as skeets mentioned there that the maturity will help them point blank. And maybe maybe he mentioned that this week week to Christine's because they have been off the court and been buddy buddy But they've won playoff rounds together but they haven't gone to a conference finals and it seems like watching US watching watching these two guys. They're just so good and as you said. Every team is running multiple ball handlers. Right now like they should be great and it's going to be. I Guess John On coach Scott Brooks to to make it happen and let's talk about Scott Brooks. is his job secure. For how long is it secure for. Do you think this year. It's it's gotta be yes. It's it's fine now I I have no worries about him right now whenever there's a GM change and the GM comes comes in and the coach stays. There's always the question. Does he wanNA hire his own coach. I do know Tommy Sheppard who they hired last summer. And and Scott Brooks Have a very good relationship. And Tommy Sheppard was the assistant. GM when Scott Brooks was hired the to them known each other for a really long time. So so I I. I don't anticipate anything happening soon. I don't know like I just I couldn't tell you people ask me like people. Ask Me that question all the time. What about this summer like? I don't know I. That would entail predicting the future and I just have have no idea I can tell you for now. Scott Brooks is fine and that he's got another year on his contract contract after this one and I don't anticipate anything happening this season and then this summer will will you know just like any coach entering the last year on his contract. We'll see what happens. But but you talk to people around the League and people inside the wizards and I think people are pretty happy with the job that Scott Stomach this team. They play play really hard and they've somehow him him and assistant coach. Robert Packer runs the offense. They've they've crafted this. This offense with John Miami bombing bombing threes Yami HEMU DOT COM has. He has four times as many threes in his career. Is Ben Simmons right well. But it's more than just playing the Latvian lasers they now live but props to to their coaching staff right for realized they they use Bertone's ons totally the spurs of parking in the corner. If he took some of the shots he's taking on the spurs pop would have him parked at the end of the bench. He'd never see daylight ever again right so I think it's those sorts of things they've got A. They had an offense that was top five in the league until they had all those injuries. I think I think people have been. I'm really impressed with the way they're running offense and that kind of stuff and Scott Scott Brooks gets some of the credit for that. Yeah he he's also had to just because of injuries had to have some of the craziest lineups like. Oh my son. I mean I caught myself see the other day like all right. This is Thomas Gary Payton the second then Bill Banga when he like. What a rear lineup? That is the say here at twenty twenty. But he's been forced to do it. Got To get a little creative. Obviously he's got a long leash because a sort of year is a bit of a sort of a wasted year with John Wall injury but what we were talking about some of these guys. You're Burton and You know MIRA and stuff like that injury been one in particular impressed you the most is Joel. mccrea is somebody else. That's maybe just shocked you and you're like well. I didn't know this guy can play this. Well it's a good one. I mean does Bertone's count. Yeah I I mean if Bertone's counts than its debts bertone's 'cause I I didn't realize he was a everyone knew it was a great shooter Niche Movements Antonio that he should have been part of the three point contest last last year. But I don't think anybody knew that he was just GonNa be like bombing from the logo all the time. Yeah I also didn't know that he's the most confident confidence man in the world really. Oh my God yeah wild. I asked him. He hit one from the logo one night and asked him after the game. How far out for us too far and he said I haven't found out so is he going to be there in Chicago at three point contest? Does he think I'd be surprised. I can't imagine they wouldn't have him like He. He would do it in a in a second. It sounds like I feel comfortable. Speaking on behalf of of him you will accept that so quickly that thing so confidently and quicker than anyone else's ever done before you'll get it through his rex in his releases so quick i. I'll have some story on shooting confidence at some point soon. It's it's it's it's really funny because he's a super nice guy and it comes off as very it's never like some people are confident in the way they grade others and he just rest is so confident in the shooting but it makes sense like how unreasonably confident how unreasonable is it to start practicing shots from the logo right as if as if their game shots who would say who would spot up from forty feet and be like you know what. There's a reasonable chance. I'll be able to do this in a game one day. Let's get it. Sounds like it's like one day. He just received the ball in a game at the logo was like I'm GONNA shoot it. Oh I made it. I guess I'll shoot these now. He practiced those forever like who the unreasonable amount of confidence that you have to have in order to start practicing those is beyond me. Did the team know that Burton's was going to be like this or did he come into training camp and they're like this guy's crazy because you're saying people knew in the spurs he could shoot but he's not like coming around screens thirty feet out and pulling from their polling going on the break that sort of thing like in in training camp they're like well we gotta we gotta find here on our hands. I think it was a little bit of a mix because he kind of played this way in Europe and they have a major major European scouting staff. Now Tommy Sheppard. WHO's their new? GM has a lot of experience scouting in Europe and and really loves European PM players and they just hired new head of appropriate personnel Johnny Rodgers. Who is one of the most respected International Scouts in the League used to live in Barcelona and and actually played college basketball with Scott Brooks and and I think part of the reason for liking him? I mean they got him basically for free. You can get a good player for free. Get them for free. I think part of the reason for liking him was because of how he played when he was in Europe he'd runoff screens more and play this style a little bit more. But I don't know if if anybody realize like Oh man this guy is going to have one of the two or three best shooting seasons in the NBA and like one of the ten best shooting says seasons in the history of the League as soon as we get them. I don't know if that was what you think. They're like because of the way he played near up there probably in their minds. Like he's just in the spurs system. You know they got out of boxed up a little bit we can unleash your. Maybe hoping for that. I think there was some of that because he he did play that way in Europe and they knew that they saw that. But I don't know if they were Gal let's let's have him take nine threes and and he's going to make four of them and and he's just going to be pulling out from thirty thirty five I watch him in practice and he just does catch and shoot drills from thirty five feet and he hits all of them and it's crazy it was like you can see the rain open gym but it's just wild against the Hornets he hit. I was just like the ball just crossing off. Why why any which is letting go but You know I mean like to get that hot. Not a Lotta guys can get quite that hallway. They'd just like as soon as I get the ball. I'm letting it fly but in the system with Washington's well he's got that opportunity that she yet in in that Hornets game eight threes and then that Hornets game they start after his fifth one are so because he got he gets hits hits them in bunches and and so they started picking him up like behind half and there was a play Eh. Where he's I think? It was three of the game where he just crosses half court and the wizards just pass it to them. And there's a guy rightness face feet in front the half court line on A. I guess it's technically the wing suit in court but it's like off the wing and and he just puts it up with a hand is faced with nineteen seconds left on the shot clock. No no no reasonably mind human being would ever try this. Nothing ever almost nine threes game as as you said forty two percent. It's always good to remind yourself. The guy is on fire out there. There's a big dude you stand in your head like a shooter. You're like okay. He's like six six six seven. I don't know where my mind goes. No this guy's while all or if you're six ten shooter you're like Steve Novak and you're just waiting waiting for something. You're not moving all around the Korten. Chuck I mean he's on a tiny deal seven million this year and it expires. Here's the he's been in trade rumors enough that it's like you're just looking at a team. That's not doing very well in the wizards and he's playing well. Maybe we could try to get him. But it also seems like Bertone's John's is the kind of player that you would want to keep John Wall and Bradley beal. So what's their thinking coming into the trade deadline here are they going to look to move Burton's because that seems a little silly to me. No I I they. They insist that they do not want to move him. And I'm inclined to believe them. Because I think I think when a team doesn't WANNA move somebody even when it's genuine you know they start to leak out like we don't want to. We don't want to move this guy you know. Sources say the Wizards Really WanNa Keep Davis. bertone's except except Tommy Sheppard just came out in an interview and put his name on. It was like no. We don't WANNA trade. We intend to keep him. It's all just working out the numbers from here so when you're GM just comes out and says that in an interview that just kind of puts an end to it all of a sudden now yesterday not just go back on his word. It's not like he told him that personally his back on his word publicly I I'm going to put it within the realm of possibilities. They trade him because they're only so many players that you just can't get you you just you know better totally untradable that there is not a fair offer out there for you to get somebody calls them up and offers them Karl. Anthony towns for Davis BERTONE's they might consider breaking their word food. But but I don't think realistically I think there's a very small chance. They want to pay him like they WANNA pay him so they see them probably a part of their future teacher. Yes they they like what trae set like they are gushing over the possibility of implying. Which right right they are everyone? I mean Scott Brooks is dying dying to see meeting Bradley. Beal Bradley. Beal said he's the best shooter he's ever seen Bradley. Beal is dying to see him play next to play with him and John Wall all at the same time he is. He's a he's a perfect thing all the shooter's John Wall's got paid yes. Yeah Right Jared Dudley and Martell Webster and Trevor Aretha in all these guys and think about how much better of a shooter and off all mover diva's Bertone's is than than those our temple. so He's going to. Ah He is going to pay before John Wall but I could. I could see them being really good together. Even if John Wall is you know eighty five percent of what he was I could. I could just Z.. Job John Wall at Kirk Goals Berry tweeted out something the other day that John Wall since like twenty fourteen or two thousand fifteen still fifth in the NBA over that time creating corner the threes and he's missed one hundred fifty games during that span. So people would wanNA play with trump. John Wall the player people would want to play with Bradley. Beal the player it would seem like an attractive situation. You've been on the beat for a year and a half there you've been okay. See you had a cup of coffee with the Celtics would you do you think it's a mellow Atlanta It's it's a huge city. But it's not looked at as a desirable destination. Do you think it is for free agents. Probably not 'cause nobody's gone. I love it I really liked. DC A lot to do good. Food scene I don't know I've never heard an NBA player. You're saying signed here because I went to the Aaron Space Museum and it was just youthful. Amelia earhart exhibit was unbelievable and I just had to go. I've never heard that. So I I love. DC Adams Adams ever signs in Washington Hilton a history buff or something museums. That's true Bradley. Beal exit a lot. They're yeah I wouldn't stay. I've heard guys who were there. Like bertone's loves bretons. Family loves it. Like I've heard guys who were there. Talk about how once they get there like. This is such a great city. I don't really WANNA go y'all how many NBA cities are really ones guys sign with for the city. It's very few. It's like New York. La Miami Cammie that that's A. We talked about Boston in this way forever. And then they signed Gordon Hayward Al Horford now we don't talk about it this way. It's like I I feel like Boston. Austin in. DC are kind of aligned is similar types of cities but they're really only like three cities destinations. Unless I'm forgetting like Chicago doesn't get anybody in Chicago Chicago. Yeah Yeah I guess I'm including sort of the back court like those dudes as a bit of a magnet for free agents. Yeah I would. I would think they are. Maybe this comes back to the to the Bradley beal attracting players type thing right. Maybe this is all part of the same the same conversation Labor. I don't know if if Brad is I don't know if Brad recruits he's made jokes about wanting to recruit guys to DC before they also just I haven't had the cap situation like when was the last time they they had legitimate cap space and if they want to resign protons not going to have it this year either. They've just kind of been down for a while. They've had big contracts. Say they haven't really had the situation to make those big signs. Even they tried to get Al Horford. He ended up opting to go to Boston. To get get durant try tried to work rant. And Yep getting those Muhima threes go up the stat one way or another but yeah like two thousand sixteen. That was the last time they really had any space. You know and it did not work out. Yeah I wonder if that changes with Bradley beal signing an extension whether or not he's going to recruit but it also it depends on the capital. That's that's a good point now. We're talking geography a little bit. Let's get to Some Japanese geography because Scott Brooks is a very popular in Japan. Why why I don't know I guess because reactor more is on the team have you have? You talked to Scotty Brooks about his his fame. His Japanese fame. Yes yes I have. It's it's a really weird thing. Yeah because I I asked the guy who who runs the Japanese. Social team for the Wizards Wizards who the second most like behind really. WHO's the guy everybody really likes? In Japan. I was certain he was going to say Bradley. Beal certain Scott Brooks love him and he said they think of him as a great father figure. Let me think of him as a great father. father-figure now's like all right sure seems like a guy think he's he's a very calm guy that he thinks that they think is a great mentor to. Yeah Yeah and and and I was certain rich Moore at the top and then Scott Brooks and it's like nobody else matters. Because Nick Freydl. He used to cover the Bulls he went to a Stralia one time where Chicago the Chicago Bulls. Because of the Jordan era are the most popular payment. He said when he got to Australia. People were fascinated with Nick Frito so fascinated with his voice. Yeah well that's true but there's a whole untapped market for Fred Katz Japan. There might be there might be. Yeah now to find out but there might be. It's plausible. What's what's really been like covering him in his first year? Here he already comports himself like a veteran he is. He's very quiet. Very quiet really keeps himself a lot. he's very bright But he's Kinda hard to get to know to be honest because like there's some guys who you cover who were just like these big personalities Jordan McRae who we'll come up to anybody and start making jokes anybody in the world and then there's the opposite end of the spectrum where ru is just this very quiet kid who to Kinda just keeps to himself and wants to come in and play basketball in work hard and treats everybody well. He's just kinda quiet and you walk up to him say Rudy how you doing Sam good our you and and he kinda just moves on with his day from there And it's it's funny need to be around him because before I had met him. I hit a bunch of people in New York. The Wizards are couple saga and so many people compared to like there were people chauncey compared him to Kobe the player compared his personality and work ethic. and that kind of stuff. And I I I don't know Qui- but from his reputation like I see sort of see that he's he's very quiet and he's very reserved and he just kind of wants to work hard and play basketball and do a good job and be a pro and and just kind of leave it leave all the other stuff out of it And and and so I I very very much see that from a personality standpoint. An off to a great start. I mean before the injury. Yeah I mean what's putting up these numbers for a rookie. He's really really interesting in two thousand twenty because he is he might just be one of those dudes who breaks the numbers from mid ranch. Where like he takes a lot of mid-range shots but maybe they're just US good shots for him shooting? A ridiculous percentage on mid-range pull ups which like Brookies just don't do and he's got to get better in a lot of things passing and scoring around Ram and shooting threes and defense all that kind of stuff but he's he's very fluid and for sure really talented. I think it's going to be really interesting. Blair there's a couple of small regards on this team. You mentioned Isaiah Thomas and Ish Smith is well. Is it neat being sort of I level with a couple of basketball players. I'd imagine it is just is to have a couple of guys around. You know sort of your height. It's it's it's it's good for my neck of the good old looking looking up all the time like there's a great story to be written about MBA writers and their struggles who whiplash constantly looking up and scrums all the time on and then they only respect tolerance trey Kerby more of the players convinced they got no time for us five ten the world the six four six five. Yeah okay. This guy's tall. They respect you as funny as like. They're big guys. Consider themselves almost like normal height and then in a figurative sense look down everybody like like they would consider trae short. Yeah like Stephen Adams would call trae short. Then you think of him yeah yeah not not comprehend. He is the large right in the world l.. Hey when I was when I was in college at Syracuse I was about I was a manager on the basketball team and I was about a half an inch or an inch taller then Johnny Flynn. Aw Great Dude Johnny. Flynn very upset that he he. He had the career that he had awesome. Dude amazing leader and and I was rebounding pre-game and Johnny was walking by and a ball ricocheted to us and I kind of grabbed it without realizing he was there and just kind of handed over to and he kinda. GimMe Gimme like joking. Intense love from me stealing the rebound front on an and. I made a joke about being taller than him. Johnny a such a Nice Guy. I mean like unbelievably nice guy like would go out of his way to lead that entire program. Like the way to talk about like Damian Lillard was kind of how I viewed booed him as a leader in that locker room was incredible. He was like an incredible to watch and it was amazing but he had this wild competitive streak so I made a joke about his height and he looks at me and says I will give you a trampoline and still dunk on you. Are you still playing on. Oh my God I'm terrible. Terrible terrible playing. I try okay good for you attempt to just before the other guys turned out this morning. We're talking off off the Mike Because I assumed you an la go because you started there at the Clipper blog but you told me from New York and New York kid. Become a work for the clippers blog so because I thought it was a funny stories. Tell the guys that will start at. How began? Yeah Eric Pike Housekeeping Aired Piontkowski in in Kobe Bryant NBA courtside. Ninety eight shooting form strand stuff crew form it. It was great great digital for it was. It was awesome killing size eight years old. I guess I'm a fan of this awesome clippers team nine nine forty one in the lockout year got to got to root for a team run by a old racist owner. One of my best slightness until you still not anymore. You lose it when you cover the league. I grew up clippers fan stopping covers fan just in just in time to make it all not worth north we hear you we came here just as the raptors got good you drop the yawn a three means pun a little earlier. We know you love a good pot. Jesse Smith sent this in on twitter. What's more satisfying writing a good story or coming up with just the right Pun? Yeah I and if you if you want to recall one of your great punts from this season you've been dropping some some hot one very friendly here what What a ridiculous I? It's it's so funny that I work for Hall of Famer David Aldridge and yet. That's the question still level the respect levels between my boss and me. It's just unbelievable disparity probably upon sadly sadly when you know you got a good one. Yeah let it fire off likely with a banana. Peel the fly. Did you ever real hold onto a great plan to make it into the article or you're fired it on twitter now. I don't really pick puns in my article. Yeah okay I find. I find them grading and writing and I don't enjoy them makes it seem like you're trying too hard to good headlines. Yeah yeah timber the headlines every once in a while you can have a play on words in writing. But I don't really like them in writing so very very rarely used them in right unless unless the situation calls for twitter is like my perfect out to get my sister so I can have like everybody hate me and then I send out my story and people don't WanNa honoree. This is just going to be punished and then only to find there aren't even any. It's really a horrible marketing. Strategy is the only way I know how to do it the well one of of the things. I enjoy your writings that you insert the accents on the as in `Davis Burton's important accents on those as do you do that or does the editor do that. And do you do enjoy that. You have no idea how good this question because I hit my editor the other day. I'm like who's been putting all the accents on all the as in Davos bertone's because I have literally never like we need to make a stylistic choice on whether we're going to go with I guess like a red as Davis Burton's without the accent or or if we're GONNA actually say Davos Burton's and we had the very nerdy accent or no accent conversation and decided on accents but I'm so lazy that I have still. I don't even know how to use that accent. Oh my goodness I only know how to use the command e accent accent. Take good the French. Go exactly the only one that I know how to use and and it would take far too long for me to Google it so you let you let you let them do it. So I I let my my editors quite honestly. I have forgotten while writing it every single time but props to my amazing editors for nearly never letting one slim jackdaws. I'm sure he has no idea no. No He's better off. I speaking of people not knowing who you are you said Russell Westbrook. That's how you knew he knew who you were was by him acting like he didn't know who you are. That's going to be a weird thing too when when you get. dissed you're like I've made it done it. Well he had said I wrote in. That story can curse on here right. I had known I really do. Because because he he said. Don't be a Dick head Fred. Now Yeah and and and as as Bret Dawson who covers the Lakers for us. We're covering the thunder at the same time. Always points out. He didn't call you a decade checkups. Right he just advised you not be. Yeah it was just general life advice and he also said. Don't be an asshole. Fred or Fred. Don't be an asshole. It was on different occasions. It was it was great. It's good advice. Don't be don't be taken that after you ask yourself a question of the I actually seem to enjoy that one. He actually seemed to enjoy that one. I think that might be proof that he knows my name to pick in the playoffs. Yeah I was in the place that was like my first week on this. Never that prefaced a question into Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook by addressing them as Fred then after an awkward silence corrected myself and said I don't know why I'm asking it was on live. TV phone blew up and it took two thousand twitter followers at night. With the. Because I had I had like three thous at the time and I picked up it was my first week on Nimby picked up like two thousand one hundred because it was live on after Spurs Thunder playoff left him. I attacks from my friends just being like Oh my God. I can't believe you haven't done it again. Then if it was so profitable for in every question that would go over a great burdon. So well speaking of Fred. I don't know if this This twitter user has inside information but Caleb slink wrote in and asked. What's your real name? Well that's that's my former editor. Okay okay so he does. He does My real name is Matthew. What Middle Name Fred? nope Oh my goodness get your boy. Loyd Fred is a nickname that everybody is called since about Third Grade Valley. Yeah this loud people normally have this reaction. Why the nickname why Fred? My third grade teacher nicknamed me Fred and I don't quite remember why it wasn't. I don't think it was that like I mean. All the Freddy Kruger Nightmare. They do that with a nine year. Old Bill messed up I it's I don't think that seminal moment for me. I definitely pushed him because I was just. There's a weird nine year old kid and then it was just like everyone was calling me Fred and I was like I guess this is my name. Wow and I definitely contributed to tall bitten threaten my my parents. Were thrilled as you can imagine. And and just for twenty some odd years now everyone is just this amazing called me Fred. Nobody my your parent. My Mom Calls Me Matthew. My Dad Calls Me Matt my brother and I refer to each other exclusively possibly as brother or brother for short okay and that the only two people. You're probably pretty much. Wow I'm shook right now and dogs or well. Thanks to Kalem for sending erasing amazing. That's wild then. I guess the final question is do you like cats. I hate tally. Eight cats but awful is Russell Westbrook a cat or a dog. We ask them that. I've I've listened to this debate many times right and I've thought about it and to me the difficult part I think Russel's personality auty is a cat but his basketball style is a dog. That is exactly why it's difficult question. I know because because Russell. Aw Russell reacts to a loose ball the same way like a golden. Retriever does throw a tennis ball. He's like I am going to get that before anybody. Nobody right and then he does and then he will run back in the other direction when he gets in so excited that he got the bright but the personality the personality. He's very catlin. Yeah but I think the personality contributes to more of his life like he is. He is being a person for longer then. He is playing basketball. So if you had to pick one or the other so I think you're saying so I have to say cat. Yeah because that is the more predominant thing 'cause because like he's a person all the time but he's a basketball player some of yeah and we asked him that we we asked all the all stars that as many as we could at an all star weekend if I do recall we asked that directly to Russell Westbrook again as I asked the question he had his back turned to me he just he was sitting on a chair but for some reason his mood was telling him to turn his back to me and it was very Catholic. There's no way around it. And he was being a person that he wasn't being basketball player. Matthew dogs no cats I thank thank you fred for coming in this was a lot of fun is great. You can catch Fred's work on the athletic and as a host of wizards after dark. A post game podcast and we will be back the daily show on Tuesday. Thanks everybody you can stay being long. It's it's kind of A.

wizards John Wall basketball Bradley beal Scott Brooks NBA League Beal Bradley John Wall Kobe Stephen Adams Davis. bertone John Brad Fred Katz Kevin Durant Russell Westbrook Isaiah Thomas Miami Celtics
Spain Hour 2

Izzy and Spain

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Spain Hour 2

"Welcome to Spain. And fits the podcast. Let out to the shell Pennzoil performance line where CBS sports Tracy Wolfson joins us, Tracy. You were literally being called the MVP of the night for your ability to fight through that incredible scrum around Tom Brady and get your questions, and can you sort of take us through because a lot of people don't know, the logistics of those first interview rights, and why you are so adamant about being next to him every second until the opportunity opens up while I made I think it just from the idea of, you know, the game end that there's going to be a podium and most likely that Starr will be on the podium, but there is a lot of time between the podium, and when the game at and you kind of want to just get the moment and feel the emotion and grab it when you can't. Because of that time, you don't wanna lose it. And you know, they've happened at every game. Whether it's a final four or Super Bowl AFC championship game. I've done several SEC gave it it. Doesn't matter. It's usually the end of the game, you try and get the winning interview. And you, you know, of course, you allow for the pre-game handshake. And then immediately they are taken. And and you jump in there and do the do the questions, and I think in this instance, it was you know, just everyone storming the field at once. I made sure to get in to my spot. Exactly where you need to be. So you don't lose them. I mean, if I waited any longer forget, it you would you wouldn't been able to get to him. And I think that's kind of what it was. And I just I let it play out. You know, when he was like, yeah. I just wanna say congrats to Julian. And I just wanna find I understand. I mean, of course, you want him to embrace his own and you want him to you know, Brandin cooks was right there. And he's like I want to say congrats the granted. And and you understood that so I just kinda waited patiently. And I just kinda stood my ground. I think at one point we had him right at the beginning. And that twenty said, you know, let me just say congratulations that I think it just kind of it went on and on because more people felt. Tred in and he was able to find more people and carry that pocket. And then as soon as the embrace, it Robert Kraft, and and did my basically, you know, knew we were at kind of time limit and said, you know, Tom, and and I know him, well, if he knows me, well, you I was doing the interview and he knew I was right by the whole entire time. And then that's when you know alternately, we we're able to get it. We're talking to CBS sports, Tracy, Wolfson reporter and network host. There was the aerial shot of you kind of surrounded by these giant men. One of whom is sage deals brother, our own ESPN's age deal and your mic was on for most of it. We're use apprised after the fact is to find out that that coverage was all on you and the reaction to it. I was surprised any reaction. Yeah. I didn't know what was happening. You know? I I walked out of that after it was done. I went, you know, bats, my usual visits. I got the interview with rob gronkowski and kept trying to find other players for our post game show. I spoke with Josh mcdaniels interview with him. And so I didn't know idea what the reaction was until kind of like the dust settled a few people came up to me. And we're like great, you know, the way you hustled in there and grabbed him and got it. And but I didn't really know to be honest until about one o'clock in the morning when we were kind of left those stadium, and we're all gathered around my husband was there. He was in the at the game. So he had no idea he was getting text about it. So to be honest, I didn't watch her see anything until ten o'clock last night. You know, I kinda was a little overwhelmed, and sometimes you don't really your mindset isn't what took place after the reason why you're watching it after the fact any game that I do is to try and get better and see how it is. And so I really wasn't ready to to watch it yet. And then I saw it and kudos to everyone to be honest because I don't think people realize that you can't get that done without everyone involved. And you know, if my cameraman weren't in the right place holding their ground if my side. My producer. Who was being stepped on is not ready with a wireless mic because the wired mic was being stepped on. And being pulled down people saw me disappear for awhile. Well, that's because the wireless the wire Mike was being pulled down. And if I they were gonna come to me with the interview, I was going to have a microphone, you know. I was just kind of like, let's just wait it out until we get it. And and until Tom was ready. And I think I think that's kind of how you had to do it. You know, I don't know if that was Jared Goff. I don't think it would have been as crazy of a scene. And I think you know, maybe what he's used to. He would have just figured, okay? Do the interview. And then I go, but calms on this five other times right now he knows what he's doing Sarah Spain talking to Tracy Wolfson on the show Pennzoil performance line. CBS sports reporter a network host. You've done a lot of these. Sometimes we get great responses because it is. So in the moment it is right after the victory. Sometimes they're kind of blah. What's your most memorable? One. Do you have one other? Other than this. I guess because this'll be memorable for very different reasons. They're just I guess just because of the reaction, which I was, you know, definitely, you know, shocked and taken aback by, but I think you know, the Peyton and a to me was really the most memorable because it was his final game. And I've had such a good relationship. And he was honest, and we knew it, and it was my first then I think when it's your first Super Bowl, you know. And you you come away at because there was a moment where we weren't necessarily going to do an interview down there. You know, we were just trying to feel it out and see the timing and everything and so there was a lot to it. So I think that you know, certainly will be one of the highlights, but this is now, you know, I think just as memorable for different reasons. And you know, they're two of the greatest of all time. So you know, that's that's pretty special Super Bowl winners. Final four winters. Anybody winning a championship is likely to give you better answers to be more excited about being the person that gets? The interview right after the game. But in an average game when you're doing that gig do players or coaches ever seemed to be sort of emulating the Gregg Popovich thing is there any sort of shimmer that's been lost on the sideline interview because of the reactions or interactions of some players and coaches lately. Yeah. I mean, I think it really depends. It depends on the personality of the coach. But you also have to know those personalities of the coaches, and I think, you know, certain coaches will give you something good. No matter what whether it's a bad game. Or, you know, not maybe a great question that you ask certain coaches on make you look better sometimes than you do just because of the relationship you have or you know, just because that's who they are. And some are tougher than others. I give credit to to Evan Washburn. And getting the interview with Bill Belichick before the game. I mean when was the last time you saw sideline inter ballot? Check. I mean, that's that's incredible. And so, you know, it doesn't even matter. What Bill ballot? Check says. But just having him out there. And I truly believe. That I believe just having the presence of a coach it just gives it a big game or a player gives it a big game. Feel like I always feel like before the game. When we're doing interviews pre kick, they might not say anything, but it just gives it a bigger feel you get that a lot in in college. But in the NFL, you don't and I always say if you could do that that's much better than a pre-game report. Because became report is just you on camera and in reality the audience doesn't really care about seeing you they care about seeing the game. And they care about seeing the coaches and the players so if you can get that, and you can get something out of them. Like, you said, even if it's nothing I think it it makes it a bigger feel one last question as we let you go. We're talking to Tracy Wolfson of CBS sports. Obviously, this could be sort of the end of the road for some of the patriots. If gronk calls it quits on. It could be the last victory. There's always a chance this you get aging participants like Tom Brady most of the viewers were not super used by another patriots win. How did the players, especially? Brady Bellichik grunk all the ones who've been around for a couple of how did they seem to feel? I think really satisfied and just you know, gronk actually said to me after he said this is the sweetest victory of them. All and that's that's pretty you know, to say that with all the wins that they've had and all the championships they've had and I think because they even explained it in the interview, you know, it was such a struggle this year. And there was a lot of you know, especially for him. And there were a lot of days failures in a lot of you know, we got the interview with with Tom Brady when he said, we suck. And everyone thinks we can't win any game. So I think they you know, we all they're underdogs come on. But I think they kind of felt that way they weren't surrounded by the most talent this year. And there it was certainly a struggle for them. And I think for them they believed, and they really felt like this was the most satisfying because of that. And I it's pretty incredible to think, you know. But here they are, you know, standing again as champion just finishing that parade. And you know, I know it was special for them. And you're right. You know, who knows you know, what's going to come next year with the patriots? But if they're if they're intact, you can never count them out. Awesome stuff. Great job putting a body on people boxing them out. And getting the interview precent you've given us some time, Tracy. Thanks, sarah. Appreciate it. Spain and Fitz solo Spain with you on ESPN radio the SPN app and Sirius XM channel eighty fits is off for the night short show for me with one eight hundred flowers dot com. Valentine's is a no brainer. They have the best bouquets and deals around like eighteen stem and chanted rose medley for twenty nine ninety nine or double it to thirty six times for twenty bucks. More to order, go to one eight hundred flowers dot com slash ESPN. They sent me some beautiful flowers today. And hopefully, my husband doesn't see them and think he's off the hook. Not that you know, he has to get anybody. Double the flowers went up. Right. Let's get out to the shell Pennzoil performance line. Again, we're Washington Post wizards reporter Candice Buckner joins us. You can follow her on Twitter at Candice de Buckner. And we last saw each other on a panel together at the conference in Nashville. So thanks for joining me on the show Candice. Sure did thanks for having me. Finally. I know right. It's been a a while. It's been to the point where I we've we've not done our due diligence on this wizards team. The last time we talked about him. It was about the needed to have a fire sale. And you know, now, the word is no fire sale, no pieces that will be getting rid of and this latest John wall injury throws everything into the blunder as the trade deadline approaches. So let's start with that. Do you have any more details on the fall that ultimately caused him to tear? His achilles just seems like anyway, twenty nine a couple of weeks after the original surgery to remove burned bone Spurs in as you know, bet surgery we're going to keep them out of the rest of the season. But January twenty nine it seems that he had a flip. And according to the wizards medical specialists Bachelet was likely 'cause in the shower walking to the shower some something related to the shower because he had his walking off and John need it to half as walking on to every walking. I we've active everywhere you see him. He needs to have is walking on the sign. It was off. Of course, it comes off when you go into the shower. So the freak accident was what we're being towed happen there. So with wall now out lart longest length of time probably about fifteen months, but could be back in a year. He's he's already mrS significant amount of time last year had surgery on both knees in two thousand sixteen he assigned through twenty twenty two twenty twenty three. Do you think this changes the team's approach at the trade deadline? Well, I don't think they'll do anything major. I e that means trading like Bill out of quarter it or over three. There are other max context contract guys. But I do this trade it line each start the re imaging of the Washington Wizards because by the time John wall comes back the team shoot look much different. First and foremost, Bradley Bill is the twenty five year old two time all star. If I was and it was just office. I'm keeping him. I'm building around him so long or do you have that impetus to build around a explosive point guard? You don't have it. And I don't think he'll be coming back in that form. But you still have a young guy. So Bradley Beal will probably be the only pay in. He he deserves to be a centerpiece of this. But as far as like, a major move. I don't know if I don't Puerto has takers for sure. Sure. But I don't know if that is a move that's going to be made post-haste this year we have the off season. But something definitely be happen. As far as shedding contract because you can't be a luxury tax team with a twenty two and thirty one record as they are right now and painting this kid is Buckner Washington Post wizards reporter with me Sarah Spain on Spain and Fitz. Ted owns us. The owner of the team often speaks about the teams direction. He just came out recently to say that they will not be trading any of their top three guys. And that he believes they could still make a playoff run when you hear from an owner on stuff like that. It makes you question the power dynamic with GM who in most cases is making those kind of decisions. What do you make of the of that relationship and Grunfeld ability to make moves for this team independently or is it all alongside the owns us. Ernie Grunfeld is one of the longest GM's president of operations in MBA. So I was in that relationship is pretty rock solid, and they are in lockstep with what they believe in happened. As far as like the second part of your question. I did forget that because I just wanted to say along already has been on the job, and no one that relationship if they're in lockstep, then that's all that matters. You know, oftentimes, you know, when you hear an owner, speaking out the question is whether the GM would want to be making the kind of moves making, you know, like I said season. This was a team that everybody said their only option is a fire sale. The only way to get better. And we're now hearing Ted leones is say we're not gonna take we're not going to sell pieces. Does that seem to be an opinion that shared by everybody there? Oh, for sure I do I do think that the organizational mission statement is it the the most realistic movie board. It doesn't. It doesn't really seem to best the best play because this team as currently constructed with the breads, John, and I don't take the line share of the of the roster seem has somewhat p say this the the team as we know have has peaked in the second round so to speak so fiercely devoted to know, we're not trading them. We're going to try for the play offs. And if we don't make the playoffs then mission wasn't accomplished that we have to see what happens in the season. Start looking at things now and started preparing for your future. Obviously John not coming back. But it's Otto porter really a piece that you need them the feature, and he's he doesn't he he's been in a little bit of a slump. But he even when John Watson on the court when John was on the court over John off the court. I don't has not idle has not had a good season period. So at this point, it's even so much point so much much so much of your of your roster need to start thinking of a way in which assets, you can get down there, and you can start trying to again, look at Brad, Bradley. Beal is your center. Appreciate the insight Candice. I don't envy you this season going forward. Figuring out how they're going to try to pull themselves out of this with wall sideline potentially a year to fifteen months of but thanks for the insight per sheet it. Candace Buckner Washington Post wizard reporter, you can follow her Candice de Buckner and the Washington Wizards have not been to the Eastern Conference final since one thousand nine hundred seventy nine I can only imagine what fans are screaming for because it stinks to be in the middle in the NBA, especially when half the teams make the playoffs, and it doesn't look like this year, they'll be able to manage that. Despite all the money that they're paying the stars that they in theory have but again while just a money dump right now unavailable to play and you can't blame a guy for injury. But you know, they're in a terrible situation. And if I were the fans, I would want movement of some kind. And I don't know if it would seem like you were going in the right direction, but any direction will do it. This point of a wizards fan to feel like we're trying to take our future into our own hands and not just repeating the same thing over and over again. Thanks for listening to the Spain and Fitz podcast listened to the show six to nine PM eastern on ESPN radio and subscribe to the podcast on the ESPN app. Spain and Fitz.

Tracy Wolfson Tom Brady reporter CBS ESPN Candice de Buckner Sarah Spain John Spain Spain Washington Wizards patriots shell Pennzoil Fitz Bradley Beal Ted leones Bill Belichick SEC
Would You Rather Wiz/Cavs/Wolves, Amended League Pass Rankings, Doncic Tension in Dallas

Open Floor

1:25:06 hr | 2 years ago

Would You Rather Wiz/Cavs/Wolves, Amended League Pass Rankings, Doncic Tension in Dallas

"Low and welcome back to another episode of open floor. I'm Andrew sharp and on the other line Bengal. What's up man, not too much? And you I've, you know may always theorising, and I've got a new theory that I want I want to run by you. You know, you've been shooting them down left and right lately, you were not into player tanking. There's been a few other misfires on my behalf. But here's the latest. I've got for you. We've talked about the warriors affected how everyone's chasing Golden State at Houston's obsession with Golden State or we're trying to build a a roster that can knock them out. And we've also talked about teams that are maybe stuck in the middle where they're almost kind of not inclined to spend big because they're gonna wait the warriors out that was kind of a popular theory there for a couple years because like what's the point of paying huge luxury tax. If you're not going to be able to beat Golden State in the playoffs share. I'm wondering though with these really bad teams, these really really. Bad teams. Whether there's a warriors affect to where they don't even try now, if you're a bad team to pretend that things are okay. Right. Like tiptoes? Obviously, a real example. He just wants everybody's dirty laundry wide open out in the air for everyone to see right in Minnesota. He could not care less. Yeah. I look at the Cleveland Cavaliers, can we even list off a top ten of dysfunctional things that have happened the Cavaliers here in the last week alone. I mean, the coaching change the interim coach being Bajd everybody's turning on calling Sexton. Even though he's been in the NBA for like, seventy two hours. Everybody wants to be traded JR Smith, basically comes out and says. Yeah. Please trade me. I mean, the list goes on and on right? Yeah. And you're Washington Wizards to now, obviously talent level, you're not on the same kind of grouping with Cleveland. But I also feel like there hasn't been any attempt whatsoever by Washington star players this year to even pretend like they're getting along. And. And I know we have this embargo on wizards talk. But you've got a chance to see them in person you were there for the Dwight Howard game. And I guess just real quick. I mean, do you believe this theory on the spouse in that like, it's kinda the new MBA? So why fake it if the Golden State is gonna win anyways? What's your motivation for trying to keep things in house? Now that you've seen the wizards in person. Do you agree with this theory? Yeah, why even bother fainting chemistry because everyone knows the warriors going gonna win. Anyways. We're not here to bullshit. Each other. Let's just be honest. I appreciate that theory, by the way in general. I appreciate all your theories player taking was a bit of an dear for you. But I think in general you're more creative than people realize. And so I I like some of the stuff you bring to the table here. As far as dysfunction is concerned. You're right that the wizards are probably the most talented team of those three but they can rival anyone as far as. Open contempt for one another. I think I think the wolves are probably the clubhouse leaders on that front. The cavs. I would say I mean, the cats everyone knew was going to be bad. It is shocking. How much has gone wrong there within the first like fourteen days of the season? I mean, the sex that stuff was one thing. And then we also saw the news that Koby Altman had a handshake agreement to trade. Kyle Korver that he is since reneged on trade. Cal Korver in the event LeBron left and clearly that hasn't happened. So. Yeah. I I don't know if I would connected to the warriors necessarily, but I do appreciate how openly dysfunctional the bottom five teams in the league have gotten look if it's not Golden State's fault than we probably have to blame social media because it's a lot harder to like fake it when you're on social media all day long. And everybody's you know, sub- tweeted and liking, and you know, going back and forth with the trash talk. So maybe there's an impact going on there too. But you saw Washington in person, and I just wanted a quick summary because I don't like airing your private text messages to me in public. But I do believe you used the phrase a new low, and that rose my tentacles had me a little bit concerned. What about you know, this season and you going to see that game? I believe it was Dwight Howard debut. Made you utter the words a new low. Well, it's interesting we can talk a little bit more about it at the end. But sure, let's get into it. Right at the top two. Because for me it was legitimately eye opening because I wasn't reporting in any traditional sense when the wizards imploded at the end of the Gilbert arenas era, and there was the gun situation. But then also like after the gun stuff happened in the locker room. There was another year after that where it was kind of like the last gasps of failed era at and it just got progressively darker and the writing on the wall, and it just everyone knew where it was headed. And it was not headed to a good place. And so I wasn't in the locker room for any of that. I I didn't know anyone around the team really it was just sort of experiencing that as a fan and watching the wizards against the thunder on Friday night on national television down by thirty at halftime that watch them have to come out and go through the motions in the second half. I mean, the wall energy was just shocking. He was he was bad. But the whole team was bad Bradley Beal had thirty or close to it to white was the lone bright spot. And really I would say the darkest stretch of the night for me was watching the white play really well through the first eight minutes of the game and having to confront the possibility that he really could be the savior. And that's how the season was going to go because I think I would rather have the team relocate than have to spend the next seven months worshipping. To your. But, but yeah, it is kinda strange to watch it all kind of deteriorate up close. And what I would say. I think there's something to what you're describing at the top. Again. It's not a warriors thing. But I do think everybody is so tired of each other and so tired in general that they don't really have the energy to do anything more than go through the motions post game. And like Austin rivers is bringing the most energy of anyone on the team at least acknowledging that this is screwed up and not acceptable. Whereas everybody else is just kind of mumbling through these cliches about playing with pride and having to play better defense. And so seeing that up closest been really strange, I think Austin rivers is conducting himself like he's on the campaign to were right now. So I'm interested to see we'll his energy keep up after election day because at some point he's going to realize like he's not actually up for. Swing seat. It's going to be like, oh, wait, I've been joing on these fifteen minute ranch at every single city that I go to impressing, all the media members with energy. Oh, wow. Wait, wait, a mentally a professional basketball player not some like house rep candidate. But a couple other thoughts they showed I think Ted Leonsis was in line at the concession stand. During the wizards game if I'm not mistaken, I was expecting him to come back to his seat with a bottle of vodka and each hand. Because I mean, what do you do if you're the owner in that situation? How is he not completely lost his mind and another thought that you're bringing up those arenas wizards or like the post arenas wizards? Have you heard this whole theory about like LA nightlife is undefeated like if you come into LA like the night before your game? All the guys get you know, they party, and they're all hung over afterwards. I actually think the Nike employees stores undefeated to a certain degree because I remember one game between Washington in Portland at the the rose garden back when they still call it at the rose garden where. The wizards. And it was just like this looney tunes version of the wizards were all at the game. Basically just talking about how much money they had spent at the employee store, and they got run off the court by thirty five points. But none of them seemed upset at all. And it was clear like their business trip. You know, how guys say, oh, it's a business trip. When we go on the road, right? Yeah. Their business trip was spending money at Nike wasn't actually trying to win a basketball game in the arena. So I guess my point there is there's been a lot of lows here in Washington over the. Over the. What was that? Do you? Remember what year that thirty point loss was I don't, but we should basketball reference. Accenture we could figure it out just piecing it together. But I didn't want us. Hold on though. Because there was one year where the I think it was Whitman's final season in Washington where the wizards went out to Portland, and now a lot of people don't know this. But again, there's something to you're crazy theory here because teams do tend to take an extra day in Portland because Nike and Adidas are out there. So a lot of teams will plan an extra day. So that players can go meet with their shoe company people and do legitimate business in Portland. And so the wizards did that one year in Portland and the players took it upon themselves to use that extra day to plan an impromptu trip to Las Vegas and. That somehow got back to Randy Wittman in advance of their like night trip to Las Vegas and Whitman responded by planning an eight AM practice for the following day which forced the wizards to cancel their trip to Las Vegas. It was organized by John wall. And I think maybe Jared Dudley, but anyways, they had to cancel it at the last minute and the players were very upset about that. And then proceeded to come out and get destroyed by the blazers, and I think that's when they officially quit on Randy Wittman and all of which just to say, you're right that this dysfunction has been lurking their DC, particularly with this group for several years now and Andrew I've just picturing Mr. d rugs by himself at tau looking around like the wizards go they didn't show up. John said he was going to be here. I think it was. I think actually the incident I'm describing was pre wall if I'm not mistaken. But there was I would have to go through in fact, like I said, but I didn't do this. Just a twist. The twist the knife into your wizards loving heart. I did have a real more serious question for you. If you were a player. Okay. Let's say you're gone. Baker people have said, you look like him or let's say, you know, you're two way contract. I you're getting your start as an NBA player this season. Okay. You're going to be a rookie into the bench type guy. Would you rather play for the Washington Wizards the Cleveland Cavaliers or the Minnesota Timberwolves if you could your I'm your agent, right? And we're hashing this out. So, hey, Andrew, there's a lot of bad teams out there. We've got some real interest in your services where would you wanna play here your three options, which do you pick? That is a very tough question. Is a lot to consider for me. Personally. I ready to cross the Cavs off at the outset because I'm not I don't really ever want to work for Dan Gilbert in any context, and I think that's true of the majority of people who are already in Cleveland. And so that situation I just think that like you're going to have a really hard time finding a silver lining in Cleveland for at least the next year or two so Cleveland is out. That cater to or you're trying to be nice trying to be nice at least two it could be ten years at you. But keep going. Okay. So Minnesota though, we've been over this in the past. I think we addressed it on a couple of episodes over the summer, Minneapolis does seem great, and I would not necessarily want to be in Minneapolis through the winter. But I've heard good things almost universally from everybody who hangs out in Minneapolis. And so that has some appeal Jimmy bowlers probably not going to be there for more than a couple more weeks. Joshua Kogi a rookie. Looks great Carl towns isn't going to be the guy who's out there cracking. The whip demanding greatness outta me every day. So that's nice. Ultimately, though, the problem is Minnesota is you're in the west, and they're sort of destined to disappoint regardless. I think I would still have to choose Washington because even moderate success is celebrated as if it is meaningful and the bar is pretty low at like, look the wizards could still make the seven see this year. So Washington is probably the best bet in my opinion. Okay. I actually had the same same conclusion ultimately, but different reasons so let me start with Cleveland. First of all if I was like an upcoming player. I would wanna know like that practice was actually going to take place and not knowing if I had a coach would be a real problem for me. This isn't like it was a twenty four hour thing. Right. This is like an extended thing where if you're Leary, drew are you carrying this baggage for the rest of the season like doesn't this a stick in your head like the whole rest of the way sort of impact? Like how you are as a coach almost reminds me of the Lionel Hollins era in Brooklyn where he finally just got like so angry at life that he was just like barely even caring. But yeah, like breasts knuckled negotiation over who's going to be the coach during the middle of a season when there's games, practices and shoot arounds happening. I don't think I could personally handle that level of dysfunction. And I think it's such a bad look that they're all coming out and blaming Colin Sexton. Look the kid can't play like he's not very good right now. And that's true early. He's he's fourteen years old. He's trying to be the point guard for a team. These guys were coming off these deep playoff runs, and they're used to LeBron doing all of the work for them to ski both the youngest guy on the team is just a terrible idea, especially when he doesn't even really have a coach right now. I mean, come on, you know, what my on that is though and for anyone who is addicted to the basketball internet, essentially, what happened is a couple of Cavs have come out and said that Colin Sexton just isn't good and shouldn't be out there on the court. And at least that's my understanding of it. They just said that he's basically doesn't know how to play like he doesn't know the ins and outs. Probably doesn't know how to set them up. He's probably being viewed as a little bit too selfish. I would guess I mean, usually when they say a point guard doesn't know how to play that's code word for he doesn't know how to getting the ball. Yeah. Exactly. But additional theory there is that the players and maybe the coaching staff as well understand. That Sexton is Dan Gilbert's guy. And that's true. And that was true even before the drafts that Sexton worked out in front of Dan, Gilbert and wild Gilbert, and I think it was after the day after the finals loss, and he just kind of one over ownership, and I think that every shot at Colin Sexton is also a shot at Dan Gilbert, this is code. Look, I can't think of anything I would like to be less in the world. The Dan Gilbert's guy. That is awful. So that's how I'm viewing Cleveland right now. I think that they might be dead last. Now, Minnesota has kind of turned the corner from me if you would ask me a month ago, would you wanna play for the Timberwolves? I would've talked myself into the idea of like, look, I'm a young guy. I kind of weasel my way into this. This core with a cat and Wiggins, and you know, maybe I can wind up being like an Kogi like you're describing where like, okay, that's a guy who could be there for a while. And have a kind of a nice role. Right. Yeah. After watching and listening to Jimmy over the last two weeks that has now become a team that I would be embarrassed to be seen in public with. I mean, he's on on the bench against a warriors waving towel along with the oracle crowd like sitting there next to him Taj Gibson kinda like hiding his face sounds like I would just get up and go to the locker room and just say I had a stomach virus or something like that. I would be hitting the button immediately from that. That man on top of that deer. It goes for fifty and Jimmy comes swaggering into interrupt a press conference because lo and behold someone wants to talk to someone besides him. And that was again, just incredibly awkward and give Derrick rose credit for for handling that situation and taking the high road just being like, okay, man, whatever please go away. But Minnesota's now to the point where like I would be physically uncomfortable being a part of their squad. So they they would be twenty ninth to me, and that leaves Washington at twenty eight then I think you're all to your goal would be to sort of be an embedded reporter with the wizards go out with them every single night. This is clearly a team that's partying six to seven nights a week. You know, that would be a very obvious excuse fellow. They're playing I think that might be true. But let's be very clear, they're not partying together. They're they're all in their own separate world. So as a rookie, you would have a really tough choice of I think the safest bet would be to cast. Your lot with Bradley Beal. But I don't even know at this point. Look, I'm trying to be friends with every single person on the team. I'm trying to party hot night tonight. And then I'm just assemble material for the book. Right. It's like the wizards like the throwback era team to like back before everyone was nerdy. And just spent all day looking at their shot charts and improving their games. Right. Like, this is the true partier destination Washington DC, and then just try to basically turn a ten day contract into a book deal. I think that would be my goal here. And I think the wizards would have plenty of material to kind of push along that proposal. Yeah. Well, you're speaking certainly as a writer and. Look league. It's taught me. Well, we know he's doing the same thing with the clippers. It's all good logic. I do have a couple of things to add number one on the wolves. You're right. Like, I mean, I haven't been following Jimmy's quotes as closely as I probably should have been. But some of the explanations he's come up with for why he's resting are. So insulting to our collective in intelligence that it's driving me much crazier than it was two weeks ago. But listening to him sit there and not only pretend that he's doing all this just to protect his body. Which by the way is also a reminder that like other teams should be worried about trading for him because he should be. I don't think he is resting to protect his body, but he should be because he's broken down each of the last three or four seasons. But additionally, he is just he's indignant at anyone who dares ask him whether any of this is connected to the trade requests over the last like two months, and it's just like, dude. I don't know what reality you've been living in. But like we all have is. We've all read the quotes. We've we've seen what happened at practice. We listened to your interview with Rachel Nichols. You can't now turn around and be like. Nope. This is just regular maintenance. I don't know why everyone's making such a big deal out of it. And so in that respect I am now almost is down on Jimmy bowler. As you have been over the last six weeks. Yeah. I mean, especially when he's blaming the media for like making all these distractions and making up stories that we make up its we make up. The Rachel interviews. Sit down. I'm pretty sure we all watched it. Yeah. I think he's just gotta be expecting that. He should have been traded by now, and he's just coming up with every excuse in the book. I mean, apparently he could be sitting out the next couple of games for them. You know, we're taping this on a Sunday night. So we don't know for sure, but it is it is outside the realm of his norm. Because he's not a guy who sits out with bumps and bruises in the past. It's outside the norms of what he tried to stab at the beginning of the season. When he first came back it's outside of the plan that he told us last week. I mean, he just the story keeps changing that's what I mean. Like, I would just that's toxic. Well, that's where you want just like run the other direction say I want no part of you. And to be clear, I still understand that this is the only leverage he has. And so I understand why he has to sit out if he really wants to get out of Minnesota. But there's a way to go about it without sounding condescending and or delusional and Jimmy is just like in his own world right now additionally on Minnesota. I've you put me on the spot with all this. But I reminded just now here you talk about this. There was a point when I was at grantland when the wolves were the worst team in the league and for one or two days, I was lobbying like Bill Simmons and a couple of other people who ran grantland to let me go spend six months in Minneapolis to do. On on life in Minnesota because this is going to be like Minnesota versus Miami. Because that was back when LeBron was in Miami. And so I was going to be day in and day out with the Minnesota Timberwolves, thankfully, I'm picturing like Fargo season three. And I also I'm not sure how much there would have been to say after like three weeks out there. So, thankfully, that idea was not approved or either that or I sorta let it job after a couple of days, but the other thing with Washington as I think about low expectations while you were talking I checked my Twitter mentions and someone pointed out that after the first quarter. Steve buck heads the wizards announcer who is basically like a family member to me. But Steve book came out and said that after the first quarter of wizards Knicks. He was like that's the best defensive quarter. The wizards have played all year. And I watched it live. So I did a double take at this. Well, it was they held the with the hill the Knicks to seventeen points, and it was treated like a real breakthrough for this woods seen after holding Damian Dotson and Trey Burke under wraps for like. Twelve minutes. And so that's the type of thing that I'm talking about like it doesn't take much for Washington to buy back end. So I think they they are ultimately the winners. Yeah. Well, I hate to tell you this. But I was actually watching the third quarter that Gabe is a Carolina who's doing the color for them now. Yes. Yes. She she had like a five minute explanation of why defensive effort level comes and goes in waves during games because what do you know, they weren't able to sustain that first quarter defensive effort through the entire game. And she was trying to break down. Why this can happen? In a very professional and above board way from her, and I commend they're really doing the Lord's work into TV. I mean like it's bad enough. We get onto these twenty minute ribs about the wizards at the drop of a hat, even though we're supposed to have an embargo imagine. If it was our job four hours a day three days a week to talk about a team that's playing like, it'd be a possible. Now, losing my mind your contacted by the team. So I think ostensibly you had to at least remain neutral and probably shade closer to optimistic and positive, and that's a really tough job. At least I have the freedom to throw up my hands. And be like fuck this. I'm out, but it's harder. When you're the official team announcer. So godspeed care Lawson and Steve book hands. Ben today's episode is brought to us by light stream. If you're like most of us. You have a balance on your credit cards and a higher interest rate that you would like why not turn those balances into one monthly payment at a lower fixed interest rate and start saving money light stream offers credit card consolidation loans from six point one four APR with auto pay then tell me a little bit more about light stream. 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The only way to get this discount is to go to light stream dot com slash open floor. That's L I G H T S T R E A M dot com slash open floor, and you are subject to credit approval rate includes zero point five percent auto pay discount. Terms and conditions apply. Offers are subject to change without notice. Visit light stream dot com slash open floor for more information. And I really appreciate you for spelling that out light stream dot com slash open floor light stream dot com. Tom slash open floor today. All right. Let's get back into it. Andrew says, hey, guys, we've all profited from getting in early on the youngest Inc. IPO? But now, I need more Tatum and Donovan Mitchell, and Luca Danni already have high stocks. So there's little profit margin available there who is the next under the radar exciting player ready to make that Janas leap. Do. You have any thoughts here any nominations. Ben. No, you go first. This is very interesting. Look already handed out the winner with yon. Okay. Take full credit for that. I was able to talk you. I was able to talk you into the aboard seat on Yana sink as well. But I'm taking full credit there. What is your recommendation? Okay. First of all, I'm not gonna let you take credit for Jaanus in any discover door. I was there in the gym in the third division. So I have all in deer and FOX who we talked about last week at so we don't need to double back. And but I just love him, man. I mean granted a little bit of a reality. Check with thirty five point loss to Jaanus in the books Sunday afternoon. But I watched almost the entire hawks kings game on Friday night, which is a little embarrassing to admit out loud. But deer foxes so good at he's he's fast. He's strong. He hits those little floaters in the lane. The dude is going to be a star. And I think that he is there still enough people out there who think Aaron FOX sucks that you could actually make some good money on FOX stock right now. So that is my nomination get in early. Let's ride this train to the top thing. We knew about him before the draft and. We actually both said this is like whether or not he is star on the court. He's got the moxie type and the confidence and the charisma off decor star. Right. So it was like kid he just like work around his lack of a jumper and his small frame defensively like enough. So that he can wind up being the type of guy where it's a Lillard effect or Donovan Mitchell effect or young Derrick rose effect where all of a sudden he's a guy who not only is your best player. But he's somebody who could rally a community. You know? I don't wanna like swing too far, you know, like, huge wide directions based on two weeks of gameplay. But Sacramento has needed that player for a decade. They need it so badly. They were talking themselves DeMarcus cousins, ping kind of guy. So I mean to me the sky is the limit. I'm curious though, because with Jaanus a couple years ago, I was making fairly outrageous at the time claims like okay, he's going to be era parent to LeBron as the king of the east and all this. Yeah. What is FOX's ceiling in your eyes? Are we talking five all star games? Are we talking? All in BA level point guard better than John wall. I mean, you know, down the road, obviously, I mean, how would you frame the his ceiling? Yeah. It's interesting Janas. Even an interesting example because he's a guy who everybody looked at and said, all right? He's an incredible athlete. But like how far can that really take him? And I think what caught a lot of people by surprise were his intangibles. I mean, he really kind of developed that killer instinct by like year three and then you could see it on the court. He and now he does he just wants the mall people every night, and it FOX has those same intangibles, which is a really good sign, and as an athlete. He's almost. I mean, I don't wanna put him on west for level. But I do think he could be kind of John wall and John wall with the right intangibles should be all star for ten years and will make some all NBA teams. And that I think is not necessary. -sarily I wouldn't call it a realistic outcome. That's still probably like the most optimistic time line with the earn FOX. But that's what I would bet on just because I have a good feeling about him. And I do think like wall with the right intangibles is an amazing player. And so that I think is what kings fan should be excited about and the other thing I would mention is that he's already further along physically like he's stronger than I think I expected after watching him last year but watching him against trae young the other night it was like two guys in two different leagues. And it's only been a year of NBA development. But FOX already looks a lot more filled out than I would have guessed. Nice. So I have two nominations that came to mind. Look there's not going to have the same Q rating as a Janas. Yeah. But two of the young guys that I'm really interested in. I think I've mentioned them both before it's Wendel Carter in Chicago. And Jaren Jackson junior trade, Jay, whatever you wanna call him. I think you should just be called Jaren in Memphis. Now, here's a free idea to bowls bloggers just do a roundup of every single basketball nerd on the internet gushing about when del Carter junior. Because look there's always an arms race among the basketball intelligence to like out in complimented each other when it comes to young guys and Carter is like in prime position for that. Because he plays on a terrible team where they're so bad that the only people who actually talk about watching bulls games are trying to impress other people by mentioning that they're watching both games straight. So is right in that sweet spot. But. When you watch this guy play basketball men is he so smart. He's so good defensively. He's so versatile. I love his offense of game two in terms of how you plays with other players if they ever get talent they're kind of around him. He is going to be really really special. And I you know, I just can't wait to rank this guy. So high on like the top one hundred of twenty twenty three your head explodes. Because you're like, no he should be thirty spots lower. All you know, he's got L Horford type numbers. But then I will get the pats on the back from all the true basketball nerds out there saying good job. You really nailed it on window a Carter. Well, his thing. I have to I agree with you in a sense because Wendel Carter junior he's not only appealing to basketball nerds, but is also appealing to like the old school shoe leather journalists because I think he is probably the best of anyone under twenty five in the NBA. Although dean, FOX is probably up there too. But Wendell Carter. I swear to God every media organization on earth has run a like. Big window Carter profile in the last six months. And there's none that much to talk about. But he's just such a good interview that people wanna feature him. So he's got not only the basketball nerds. But the old school media people in his corner, which is a win. My problem though. And this also applies. Jaren Jackson junior. I'll let you make your case. But his game is just a little bit too boring to ever really hit it big. He's gonna be in the Horford zone at best. That's his best case scenario. Al for now is one of the fifteen best players in the NBA. And I still can't really bring myself to care about him. So there's a ceiling on how high his stock is going to go look at you. I found Jaanus I went halfway across the world to find the honest. Now, you want me to find a second honest, and it has to be entertaining player. Come. I can't guys the straight face. You're taking credit for finding on God damn it the worst. Anyway, I these are mostly young guys. I'm intrigued with I'm kind of twisting this question a little bit right now in terms of Jaren as I'm going to call them one name Jaren obviously the foul. Trouble stuff is a real issue. Have you ever seen those workout videos where like guys are learning to play through contact and they're getting hit with like these like plastic long tubes? Like the same kind of things you would like float on Florida's. Yeah. Yeah. What we need to do is basically get a bunch of guys with those floaty to just like smack Jaren during his offseason workouts for like four hours straight every time. He commits the foul. So we like train him not to people because really once he learns to just not be. So quite so hyperactive and reach -i and bouncy on the defensive end. I do think he's going to have a really high ceiling in terms of intrigue. I mean, the guy is pretty athletic. He's really long you're going to get the dunks and blocks, but it's not going to be. The empty calorie like javale, McGee style, dunks and blocks might be a bad example because he's a pretty good start to the season. But you know, those guys Dwight Powell's of the world where it's like. Okay. Cool like your dunking and blocking. But like what is the end goal here? Like sure I think Jaren Jackson could be a guy who's got real substantive big high impact play while also making, you know, a number of highlight reel plays on both ends if he just gets a little bit more disciplined. So in terms of my long range future beds. He's on my list. Okay. I agree with you, except that I need to push back on the idea that Jaren is going to be an acceptable nickname for him. Jared is just not distinctive like realize it's just too boring. It would be like people calling John wall. Just john. I mean like Jared is to normally see it's not kyri not Draymond not LeBron. It would be like people calling Damian Lillard Damian like it just doesn't work. Okay. Look bottom line. Fine. He's not Madonna. He's not riana. I get it. Okay. But guess what? If you wanna follow him on Instagram. Do you know what his username is you guess what is to Graham dot com slash Jaren. Okay. So he's already laying groundwork either research team people are on the same wavelength as I am. And he could get there. No. I hear what you're saying though, it is becoming a more common name here in recent years. But look give Jalen rose can be Jalen can't Jaren be Jaren. Jalen was distinct when it started. And it was such a good name that it now has become ubiquitous I don't think somewhat in two thousand eighteen could pull off the Jalen one name distinction because they're like twenty five guys named Jalen, but shot out to Jalen rose. So I don't know we'll have to figure out the Jaren Jackson junior name situation. It does seem like campus as triple j what's more egregious me trying to claim disc-. Covering on this or you'd pretending that Jalen Rose's listening, and you're going to give him a shot. Like, you guys are best friends come on, man. Did I tell you Jalen actually, there was a bit of controversy during the finals last year when I started floating the idea that Kevin Durant could leave the warriors Jalen thought that that was his take and that I was stealing his take from him. I had never heard him say that. But there was like a morning of kind of joking controversy back and forth between Jalen and me. I'll just say directly to Jalen because you're listening. Jalen, look, he's taking a lot of my ideas and turn them into call twenty four hours later. So I I'm with you man, and look go blue. That's all sense right go flu big weekend with Chris Webber back at Michigan. How'd you feel about that? Well, I'm like this playoff matchup, Angie. I don't know. If you go just phase by phase of the game. And you're looking at the top four teams in the country right now. Do you think anybody is more complete? The Michigan football. Aren't we in the position where we should be considering them the number one team in the country? Best all around. So you really started to say that after the forty two seven Penn State win. And I'm concerned that at least part of you really believes that Michigan has a shot against Alabama. And Arte me we want them. I answer we've been saying that for two weeks. No, I will say this. It was a strange feeling as a Michigan football fan to just be disgusted that we lost the shutout. It was forty two zero. And I was like screaming out my ipad. Hey, Jim put back in the first string defense. Let's keep this a clean sheet. Like now, I was thinking back to like four or five years ago. Where can we please just beat western Michigan? It'd be so embarrassing if we lose this game the amount of improvement this season compared to previous years is ridiculous. It is big just understand that you're gonna lose the bam. I start here. You talk about like the possibilities in the playoffs. Like, you never know got the best defense in the country. And that I know. Now understand how you feel what I start throwing out wizards possibly making the finals like let's see. At the end of may, you know, can't write him off. Like look everybody was going to deny the success went straight to my head. I can't deny that all I'm saying is look to. Let's see you do it in snow come up to the big house in December or January. And then let's see how well you're able to throw in a forty mile per hour gusts. Maybe get a taste of big ten football in the trenches. See how that goes for? All right. And we will keep it moving. We gotta talk league pass. But first Ben today's episode is also brought to you by MAC welded MacWorld, its mission is simple to make sure all your basic needs underwear shirts. Socks sweat pants. They're all smartly designed and shopping for them is easy and convenient with MAC Weldon. 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Nice combination of affordability grave value comfort, and then stylish looks. Yeah. Let me tell you something man over the years doing back. Well, then reads this Bod cast because it started we got some free. Products to try I have since double back and become a full-fledged MacWorld and customer, and you're right. We are firmly in MacWorld and season here. So I just got a new shipment. I'm now part of a special VIP MacWorld and blue. So yes, check it out all their products are anti microbial, which means they eliminate odor. It's all great stuff. And it does look good. You're comfortable and also stylish at the same time. So the important part here. Go to MAC, Weldon dot com and enter promo code floor at checkout. You will get twenty percent off your first order MacWorld dot com. Enter promo code floor. It's good stuff too. Great thing is the website so easy to use. You just log you browse you're not overwhelmed with hundreds of different products that don't make sense. It's exactly what you're going to expect from a clothing company that really brings it. There's no weak links Angeles deep rotation of quality outfits, go to MacWorld dot com. Enter promo code floor at checkout for twenty percent off MacWorld dot com. Promo code floor. All right. Let's move on. We gotta talk Lakers. And we also have another quick question. We're almost a month into the season here. So sunny says d you guys have any emended league pass rankings for me. The Sixers rough start has me down on watching them while I'm curious to see if the kings can continue their play the Hornets. Also, don't look half bad. Would you think a couple of weeks into the season? And so Ben I think that we should do this. We should break this down by by putting forth like an amended top five after the first couple of weeks here that sounds good. Well, do you have any objection? The Lakers should be number one. I think I had them in my top three if I'm not mistaken before the season. But I think the Lakers are clear one for this season in terms of pure, entertainment, like appointment viewing. Doing like if you don't watch the game you've got foam. Oh, like, I feel like that's where there there's no question that the Lakers are number one. And I think you had the warriors number one on your list back in mid October. And you were mad about it. But that's still looking pretty good too. I wouldn't have I would not have warriors lower than to. Yeah. You had warriors at number one. Basically, I think even you admitted it at the time. This is me on my high horse at just up here in my ivory tower demanding that everybody recognize the greatness in Golden State. But even you admitted that it was sort of like a cop out Golden State to their credit have really lived up to it and earned that number one spot. The reason I think LA has to have the edge right now as because the Lakers are so bad that every game they play ends up being close until the final minute. Whereas Golden State is so good that even when they're playing this kind of basketball nervous. China. They like the game is still over by midway through the third quarter. And that's not fun, particularly if it's like one AM on the east coast and you're staying up, but the no no question. Look, I mean, if I have to break out the like Steph should go for eighty two they should try to score one hundred seventy points in a game. Call him in October. Exactly. Whereas the Lakers, I have to say man, I can't not watch this team every Sunday night. And so we're recording this during Lakers rafters, which is hard for me. Because I want to watch LA and part part of it is I'm watching a hater half the time. I'm watching to see them kind of collapse and see the cracks start to show, but they're hypnotize ING, no matter what. When when it's good. It's great. And they are as fun as any team in basketball. And then when it breaks down, it is pretty ugly, and and kind of fascinating in a whole other respect. No, they've got absolutely everything. I mean, first of all your nephews left-handed dunk the other night against the blazers was filthy one of the best highlights by anybody in the season. But you mentioned all the close games is there like barely competent approaching late games. Also, part of the fun here. Like, LeBron good missing. All these free throws Rondo just been brain farting left and right in crucial moments. But then every once in a while like they they hit a big three somebody comes through and kinda like saves the day or LeBron will do his little takeover mode in the last minute or two, but they've had some really strange turnovers in key situations as well. Like, I feel like the whole games are just like incredibly entertaining. And they're all distilled into like the final three minutes of chaos were literally anything could happen. And it wouldn't surprise you. Yeah. It is. It's great. And honestly every Lakers game is so exhausting that. I come away. And I'm like, I. Of all it takes me an additional thirty minutes to fall asleep because there's just adrenaline running. And then I alternate -ly like breathe, a deep sigh and like, wow. So we're going to just be keeping this pace going for the next five or six months. I'm curious to see how long it lasts, but even against Portland where they had control that game. And it looked like they were going to win going away. And it was going to be the best one of their season. But then you look up, and it's the fourth quarter will interesting they're down the stretch, and Rondo is closing for some reason. And it's just like there's never a dull moment at I have to commend them because they have been even crazier than we expected. Right after LA in Golden State's in me would be Milwaukee. Look, I've always viewed myself as kind of like a frugal traveler, I don't need a no frills. You know, I'll stay at the, you know, the budget hotels off the side of the freeway. I don't care. I don't need anything fancy. Everyone's hold on to be very clear with your hotel choices, you Steger true wherever you can get the most reward points and you plan meticulously. That's not true. That's not true because you get more reward points for spending lots of money, and I'm very frugal. I take care of the person. But look. I every once in a while I will splurge once I've got the points in my possession to stay at a nice place. And I was thinking about this watching the bucks the other day because one time I stayed in this hotel in London, and like the whole bathroom was like marble, and it was like a chessboard and you walked in and it felt like museum and the whole room. You just didn't want to mess it up. It was like two nice. Have you ever had that feeling they can hotel where you're just like, I don't even know if I can sleep because I don't wanna like disturb the way they've put together like the sheets like everything's like very carefully. Manicured. It was a hotel. I stayed at on my honeymoon where I definitely walked in. And was like, well, I feel like I'm in a museum, and I'm actually uncomfortable isn't so nice. So that's how I feel watching the bucks. And that's the only reason why takes a little bit away because Anju they're like too perfect. They put up one hundred forty four I think tonight against Sacramento. Yeah. And they're hitting twenty plus three's not like a regular basis, but they're just Jackie soleny threes. Everybody's hitting them Jaanus is putting up thirty five point triple doubles Middleton for all of my over hyping Middleton for the last three years. It's like all writing right on schedule. Their record is just unbelievable everything that I by the way, not only did I call Janas being a breakout player. But I told you way early that coach bud was the right coach for the bucks, and you kinda push back last year, and you finally came around, but has exceeded my wildest expectations there too, and you can go check the tape on that one by the way because I actually did say that people who listened closely the podcast. We'll probably note that I end up being right about most of the bigger picture thing. I guess, you know, I it's true. But you were right about coach. But in a big big way. And I assumed that that books roster was. Just two broken to really excel. But even if we go back to the preseason podcast. I was complaining about the wings. And you said, you know, coach bud has traditionally been pretty good at getting the most out of guys like Tony snow, and that's exactly what's happening a month into the season. So credit to you credit to coach bud your version of a five star hotel. They have to see what I'm saying. I I can't really enjoy. It's like too perfect. I don't want. I'm not rooting for anyone to get injured. I'm not rooting for a three game losing streak or anything like that. But it's it's like exceeded my expectations to the point. Where like I almost have to take them in doses. You know what I mean? It's like, okay, I'm gonna like sample these guys for like two and a half quarters. And then if feels so good it's going to be taken away from me. So I don't stick with them through the whole game. So that's my only asterisk on them. But I think they've got to be top three. I mean to me, I don't know who's been more fun or more of a revelation than Milwaukee. Yeah. And I would fill. Oh out the top five with the raptors. And really, yeah. No, look, the raptors are really fun to watch. If you actually sit down and watch them play because they have great chemistry play really fast Lowery is bombing threes. And then you also get these little four and five minute interludes Kawai takes over, and and that's great too, and it completely different ways. So I really do enjoy watching the raptors, and you said a four five minute interlude or you saying quite takes over every four or five games or or how often is he playing? Listen for people who are not privy to my communication with Ben complaints about Kawais. Rest policy are already pretty robust every every couple days I hear about Kawais rest policy. Look there's there's baseball starting pitchers more often than coli place. He's on a five game rotation. Let him live. He's playing MVP level basketball. And I think that they have a place of the top five in part because some of the other teams are not quite there. I would say raptors for nuggets five just because the nuggets when they're good are so good that you can't help but love them. But then like teams like the Sixers and Celtics have been kind of disjointed earlier. So we may have to check back in January to see where they actually rank. I agree on Sixers and Celtics. They both have would drop out of. I think I had top five preseason. They would both drop out. I think I would have Denver for I'm struggling to think of my my fifth right now because even team like Utah that I usually like pretend to like more than even I really like they haven't really played up to that level. What about New Orleans New Orleans has the same issue with a missing some time as Toronto does. But I think New Orleans got a case for being more entertaining style wise than the raptors, I guess, so look when Anthony Davis is healthy. And then sure I think they might win just because of AD. You know who else is like sneaky entertaining. And they actually might be the team. I enjoy much watching the most from the Eastern Conference. The Atlanta Hawks is that crazy, man. I'm I kinda like I mean look trae his not an every game player. Let's just put it out there. Like he is not a night tonight guy where you can just Bank whatever he's going to do. But when Trey has it roller. He is really really fun to one thing. It's very tough because you don't know what hawks game or what hawks team you're getting every night because trae against deer FOX he looked like he was fifteen years old and FOX was great on defense to it was chasing him off three point line. I think trae only got one three off in that kings game. And it was just a mess for Atlanta. But then he comes back a couple days later, he he had twenty four and fifteen and when trae has it all working, you're like holy shit. This guy's the future the NBA. He's amazing. And so I with you on the good trae nights. I would not. Put them in the top ten because I just don't want. Jinx anything like I think they're going to be some peaks and valleys in Atlanta. I would definitely have top ten maybe five stretch. I hear you on Toronto of the top Eastern Conference teams who has the best entertainment value at this point of the season. I to me there. Leaps and bounds above Philly. Boston Indiana's actually been pretty interesting and the depot hit that nice shot the other night. But again, I'm not tuning in for the Pacers. As often even as I'm tuning in for the hawks, and Mike I had the hawks way way low. So again, this may be a case of over-correction like coming into the season. But there's a lot of nights. Just like, oh, the hawks are playing at four o'clock Pacific. I'm in. Let's just start the evening this way and see what trays up. Yeah. We should also give some love to Kemba Walker and the Hornets because they have been a lot more fun than I would have ever expected. But seriously, they're almost in the blazers category for me now where it's like, I know what Dame could do. I know can do. I don't need to see it. But like lasers they are not quite good enough to ever blow a team out. But they're good enough to be in every game. So when you tune into a Portland game like, you know, you're going to get a good game and same is true with Kemba in Charlotte. And I just think that there's more there than I expected I would have had them in the mid twenties. And now it have them in the high teens I'd say or ten to fifteen range is where I'd put Charlotte. But anyway, this is all nerdy. Yeah. No, it's fine. I also would say like I opened the podcast talking about all these terrible teams. I found myself really gravitating towards the train wrecks early this season. And I don't know if it's because like I've just realizing that like if the wizards keep going down this path like they're going to be on watchable by February. So I might as well tune in now, but I've been watching a lot of their games that timber wolves. I've been waiting to see, you know, like what craziness is gonna break out on any given night with them and also another sleeper for similar reasons as as with trae in Atlanta would be Dallas. With luca. And I got a chance to see them in person in L A, but I've also been tuning in. There's some weird dynamics going on there with the Mavericks, man. Okay. So we've gone longer than expected. So let's let's close out with Mavericks here because we got a Email from Kirk who alluded to exactly the dynamics that you're mentioning he says news flash. The seven eleven employees is also the best Mavericks player. Luca is the best player, and it's not really close. The problem is that everyone else and particularly Dennis Smith junior are getting treated as if they're on the same level. They are not during his thirty one point outbursts a few weeks ago. You could see Luca mutter give me the ball in the second quarter after he went minutes without even seeing the ball. His teammates look him off constantly, and it's truly bizarre. He might not ever be an all star or whatnot. But the Mavericks need to come to grips with the fact that LUKA is their future. And that's a dramatic reading for me because I love Kirk Kirk is a friend and also like the internet's foremost, Luca Donncha, ch- zealot. And I think there's something to what he say. There was that clip over the weekend of de'andre Jordan, stealing a rebound from Luca in the background. You could see Mark Cuban watching it happen. And getting it looked like it was getting a little pissed off about it. What did you see in of ensure that was a theft? And I think that was something worse that was grand larceny. I mean, he liked poked the ball above Lucas hand to ensure that he wouldn't be able to get it was as if to rub it in his face that he was doing. I think it was technically battery because he also shoved Luca in the back like neck, so it was it was a strange deal. But I don't know what are your oppression? From seeing that team and being around them during that Lakers game. Oh, my first impression regarding Kirk is just I wonder when child protective services is gonna step. And I think he's got a three foot tall tattoo on his four year old son's back. Jersey. I don't think that's allowed even Texas Kirk lives in Texas or where he lives, but I think so would needs to call the source. No question. No. It's deeply deeply concerning. Second of all. You were asking earlier what are some stock tips to you're selling or you're buying a deer FOX stock and say he's going to be this big superstar. Everyone should short sell Dennis Smith junior stock. This guy is bad. He's just not very good at basketball. And it's going to come out over the next twelve to eighteen months. Everyone's going to have an awakening that he's bad. He makes decisions he takes poor shots. He's not a great shooter. He has very limited feel as initiator of an offense. I don't think he's anything special defensively. I don't see a lot of leadership intangibles. He's got no real understanding of how to play off of Luca. It's very much might turn your turn type stuff. And I don't want to call him like a full moody. But I do think if if. Or dallas. If you're a Dallas and you wanna tank commander like if you're trying to lose to kind of like re plenty sheer youth stockpiles. I think he's a great guy to have on the core to ensure you lose basketball games Dennis Mitchell. We'll take you to the top of the lottery. There's no question about it. In terms of Luca dynamics. It doesn't seem like he's got much of a reporter with the Andrey Jordan. Obviously, even though he's forced feeding de'andre all day long with lobs. You would think of all the players on that team who should like Luca. It would be Andre doesn't seem like he really has much of a chemistry built up with Dennis mid June. Or maybe even a Wesley Matthews who's who's had a really high usage to start the seasons. Kind of perplexing down there. I'm wondering here's another one of my theories, you know, I have these theories. He was a big time star in Europe. There was that movie about him and the other Balkan NBA players that came out over the summer, and like the movie opens with Lucas stepping out of a bright blue Lamborghini. Just like what's up? This is not your typical like this is not your Dirk Nowitzki. Like, hey, guys. I'm like fresh off the plane. I have no idea how the is going to work like, can you? Please welcome me into your family like Lucas arriving as a full blown superstar like cultural icon in his home country. And he's definitely cocky, you know, there's no question about it. He's definitely accomplished in a way that a lot of other rookie players aren't he's very determined in terms like how his game is going to translate. Like, he doesn't have any doubts about that. He's trying to play his game. And he's also I noticed impersonate, you very comfortable with media attention. Like, I always go down there and get my Instagram. Game on before the story. You know, take pictures of guys warming up going through their workouts and all that and Lucas like already smart enough to know that he should feed passes to vid sqi in front of all the LA media because that will allow people to take shots of them together. And that will go viral because it's Luca Dirk and here they are. You know, like the past the Mavericks franchise in the future of the Mavericks franchise. This guy is like very savvy. He gets it. And I think he also understands like five years from now he's going to be a big time star in his eyes. Right. I could see why average MBA guys would be like, wait a minute, man. You need to earn this. This is something that I thought actually happened with David Blatt as a coach. So that was my theory is Luca getting some of the same like anti European David Blatt sentiment that black experience when he came to the NBA because blacks talking about being a fighter pilot. He's won all these titles overseas and people need to receive. Effect him. He's not a rookie coach and all this. And I kind of wonder if there's a parallel there with Luke Lucas probably in his head thinking, I'm not a rookie. I've been playing professional basketball for five or six years. Meanwhile, guys like Wesley Matthews are saying, you know, get a pink backpack. You're a rookie go get me some donors before practice. Flat parallel is of very perceptive observation because I do think that there's some of that there. Where Luca does kind of look at his past doesn't feel like he has anything to prove to some of these guys and he should. And this is one thing where like, I'm very pro international basketball. But like, I don't blame any NBA guy who looks at the euro league. And it's like all right. That's not in the NBA as a completely different thing. It's basically college in the eyes of someone like west Matthews or Jordan or any of the guys were allegedly like not that impressed with Luca. And and because it is basically college like it's a significant step down from the NBA. And that no matter how much we wanna talk about Luca played in the second best league in the world. Like, there is a large gap between where Luca was playing where guys like Nick Leith this are stars. And where the NBA is right now. And so. I think that the black thing is probably part of it and Luca's also just sort of cocky, by nature, one of the things that I'm most interested in watching over the next month or two is like a how real this is whether the problem actually gets worse from here or or continues to linger and if so how does your candidate because Dirk was a guy who is very high on Luca early on in Dallas. And would be the perfect guy to step up and say you guys need to cut the shit and start passing the ball to Luca because he's our best player. Like, that's a very easy thing for to do. And it doesn't seem like he's done it so far. And like you said like I talked to dork about his first couple years in Dallas like he was super humble and had have like Michael Finley. I talked to him about how the rest of the team had convinced Dirk that he was the guy and that he needed to be taking the shots. And so he's a completely different kind of CARA. Actor than Luca has been far. And so maybe he's rubbed the wrong way to and that's I don't know. The whole thing is going to be really interesting to watch the next month or two. It's funny. Your national story was mentioning all of the different people who are out there kind of employed to help these guys make the transition to the NBA like wasn't there? Somebody was like helping with their passports like helping with like getting visas for family members, and like making sure they can come over. And all that the almost needs to hire. Like an ex player liaison to like teach these star European players how to act in an MBA locker room because like look Luca loves Jordan's. And he loves her at music like we've already seen that like he's he's halfway there to be able to bond with these guys perfectly. Right. But there's still some like cultural gap. They're missing where you know, you have to come in. And and whether it's saying things whether it's like how you handle yourself at practice. Whether it's doing the the annoying rookie chores carrying bags whatever it might be. He's clearly not doing something. And he's getting that pushback. And maybe he feels like he doesn't need to do it. But let's. Let's read this two thousand word tell Kirk and Kirk son, can you guys commission this inside look to the Mavericks locker room like please just like keep pushing all the Dallas beat writers to dig into this. Because I would like to see what it is. And why he's Chafee's guys. Because clearly he's he's not doing something. Or he's doing something. He shouldn't. I think some of it is a little bit natural. I mean, here's what I would say. But it's not his game though. That's the thing. Like on the court. He doesn't take that. Dumbest shots to me at his shot selections. Okay. He gets himself in some situations. Turnover wise where like he thinks he's going to turn the corner. He just doesn't do it. And then he has to pass the ball way. It goes the other direction like that does happen. And that would frustrate me if I was some of the vets, but there's a lot of guys on that team with worse shot selection and worse decision making than Luca Danni. I mean, it's not his game. But it is his personality from what I've heard. I mean, one of the guys I talked to before the draft one of the worries with Don church was that he thinks of himself as a future superstar an MVP type player, and he's not going to be that good. He's going to be more of a third star. And this is in the words of someone else. Not me. But and how he handles that is going to be kind of an adventure. And people weren't sure. How he was gonna handle his NBA realities. And so it is a concern. What I would say though, I think the dynamics in Dallas are also kind of screwed up where a lot of people look at Luca as if he's like the next Dirk or the next honest, and I think it might be healthier to chill out on some of that because he's not necessarily he doesn't necessarily have that ceiling, and I don't blame some of the existing players for being like like relax Dirk wasn't Dirk for the first three years of his career. Everybody just chill. We don't need to be forced feeding this guy. But if you're Luca and your confident, I don't blame him for wanting the ball either. So I kind of understand both sides. If we're talking about players, I understand some of the veterans for kind of balking at this. But like Luca a lot of great players have come into the NBA believing in themselves and believing that they should take the last shot, and they kind of take heat for it early on. I mean, some of this even happened with the Braun and Cleveland where apparently he rubbed Cavaliers teammates the wrong way. And and Koby certainly had the same reaction for with various Lakers, teammates and other guys around the league. So like some of inches comes with the territory. But I guess what I would say is I understand both sides of it. Yeah. I mean with some of these guys like I kind of get it like de'andre, Jordan. He spends the first what eight years of his career answering questions about Blake Griffin. And Chris Paul day in day out. Tell us about Chris tell us about Blake do Chris Blair get along. How awesome is it to be part of lob city with Christian Blake? What makes Chris oh special? What makes Blake so special? And at some point. You're just like enough is enough and those are with guys who were already established. So for him to get like a fairly sizable payday last summer in terms of like is his salary not a long term deal, but still a nice deal. And then he has to come in. I'm sure he's being besieged by Luca questions from training camp starts because part of this is just the media to like the media's more and more fixated upon superstar players and rising star players in it's ever been before. Right. So if you're going out there, you're losing games regularly. And then all anybody wants to do after the games is ask you Luca through you to lobs. How great is it to get? That would get a little bit. All right. That's kind of what I mean with the Durkee honest, like just calm down with the Luca hype. I don't think we're there yet. And maybe we will get there and a year or two, but it just isn't healthy for anyone and and maybe it's unavoidable. But I I think part of it is compounded by the team it self because the team it self has so much invested in Luca that they need him to be that level of superstar. And there are probably people within that organization who need this to work at that level. And this is the team that did pass on Janas, and they kind of they were hoping to right that wrong by trading up to go get dawn like it's. It's it's a great point like if you've been playing. Yeah. If you're playing there for Rick Carlyle for five years, and he doesn't say a single nice thing about any player on your roster for five years because he's just a grunt a Grinch. And then all of a sudden this season opens up, and he's talking about how who is like the most skilled he's ever seen and all this other stuff like that would be like, wait a minute. Wait, what's happening here? You know? And I'm sure Cuban is doing the same thing after every game probably going back there checking I'll nuke is Luke doing. I mean, it would it would definitely get annoying. Here's one piece of advice for Luke. Yeah. As you're trying to win over your locker room. Don't pull a John wall and go out and buy Rolexes for every guy on the team. And just pretend that's gonna be leadership. That's not going to be leadership that will not be enough to keep everybody on your squad five rolling with you. You're going to have to forge a real personal connections with your teammates, just buying them watches knocking a great point at a great place to wrap up. I actually we shouldn't we should do to podium questions. But it's true Luca. No matter what if you just avoid making the choices that John wall has made over the last three or four seasons in Washington. You will be fine. The Mavericks will be fine. So on that. No, let's do podium real quick, Ben because we had two corrections from the last podcast number one Hake road in and said, I have to take issue with Ben's comment in the November. I f. Assode and bead is not really the same impact guy. He was last year. That's a direct quote from you. And Hank was one of probably fifteen or twenty six years fans who wrote in pushing back against our Embiid analysis. What do you have to say for yourself? Ben. Well, I am very proud to report that despite all of the perceptions of Sixers fans out there being very hard headed and stubborn and not willing to listen to logic, Hank. And I were actually able to hash us out very quickly in an Email exchange. No names so were called everyone's back on the same. Well, okay. When I am talking about. Embiid's impact. I'm basically was looking at the numbers and saying last year when he was on the court Philly is plus eleven this year when he's on the court, and this was as of I think Saturday Philly is plus five, and they just took a pretty ugly loss to Brooklyn. So I imagine that's going to drop probably even more. So that's not necessarily saying beads a worse player. I understand. He's got really nice especially box scores stats this year. But if you're looking at and also, by the way, their defense the last time I checked had dropped from third last year to eight this year. Right. So last year the version of Embiid, we got was a one man lead defense all by himself, very consistently every single time. He was on the court and also a foundational piece of the best five-man line-up in the league the highest efficiency, then they're running guys off the court with their starters last year and beat has been very good this year, this isn't necessarily knocking him in. Visually. But when he's on the court, Philly hasn't had that same major positive impact, and you can blame Foltz you can blame the combination of Fulton Simmons together shrinking the shooting, you can blame some of the other issues that we've mentioned in terms of the lack of the shooter's that they've lost or just their overall chemistry a slow start. Whatever you want to attribute that to. I'm not saying beads a worse player than he was last year. I'm just saying like through the first two or three weeks of the season. He hasn't had that same big impact that directly correlates to team success and actually one other really interesting point to look at here. Andrew is Rudy go bear with the Utah Jazz because last year the jazz were plus eight with Rudy go bear this year. They're only plus five when he's on the court, and you look at their record there right around five hundred you know, you look at Philly's record. They're just a little bit over five hundred. Right. So those are two teams we really expected to be elite contender type teams this year in their respective conferences. A potentially top three seeds both those teams, and they may still get there. But so far what we're seeing across the league is offense is way up pays his way. All these other things that we've talked about in terms of no one's really playing defense. And you're seeing a team in each conference in Philly and Utah that relies heavily terms of its identity on defensive minded center. Both those teams are maybe struggling a little bit more than we expected. And both of those players are not having the same level of impact on games that they did last year is this a coincidence is a short term trend that will work itself out of the course of the season. I'm not sure yet. I'm not really ready to weigh in definitively on either one. But I do definitely think it's something worth tracking here that is really interesting and impressive you doubled down. And I appreciate you for it. Because I. Look first of all my number one take away from the weekend of Sixers complaints that. We got was I'm really proud of how closely everyone is listening to these episodes because I would have pushed back against what you were saying had I been paying attention to what you were saying about have been not being the same impact guy was last year. Because I do think he's he's a better player than he was a year ago. I agree. I'm not I'm not saying. Yeah. Just to be clear. This is this was based from like, a number disparity that has changed from this year to really I didn't even hear you say it on the last five cast the that's no surprise, nothing new. But it is funny that you know, Brooklyn drops Philly by twenty-five after we get seventy two hours. It's great. It's great. I love like every Joel Embiid also went for I think thirty nine and fifteen it gets the pistons to beat Detroit almost by himself on Saturday. So he's great the plus minus thing is interesting because I. I think ultimately you're talking about to me my takeaways that plus minus is not necessarily the most reliable statistic when we're talking about value. And it's something that we use a lot with guys I think because it's easy to understand. But what I would wonder about is who Joel Embiid is on the court with this year versus last year because I think that is probably part of it. But no, look, I'm willing to say, it's a full tissue. I mean, I think he's screwing up a lot of stuff in the combination of fulsome Simmons together, really changes. They're looking it's going to impact anybody else who they're sharing the court. It's going to change their impact numbers. But I guess my point is usually plus minus net rating for superstar level guys. It's very clear, right. If you've got Steph curry on your team, and like if you have Joel Embiid from last year on your team, if you've got Rudy go bear on your team last year with Utah. Those guys were just clearly pulling. Almost whoever they're playing question to two big positives. And we're just not quite seeing the same thing this year, and I'm not necessarily blaming them. I'm saying it could be a product of these philosophical things or could just be. We don't have a big enough sample size. And we're not to to thinks giving it where I'm going really start drawing some conclusions. But it's some it's an astute observation and typically when you double down and refuse to apologize to listeners. I kind of roll my eyes on this on this side of the conversation. But I think there's something to it particularly with go bare because go bear is not having the impact that he was a year ago, and we'll have to wait and see but just watching the jazz in limited spurts here. And there I just haven't been very impressed. And and I think that's real, and it would make sense that has the league changes and becomes this like souped up version of basketball, guys like go bear. And bead are not going to be as impactful defensively, and that was a huge part of their value last year in the way, we explain their value. So it's worth monitoring. And I give you credit. You're not as stupid and hard headed as I sometimes assume, but here put it this way to Andrew everyone who wants to direct Philly related rage at me. Put it back where it belongs on Marquel. Faltas? I'm not gonna let you direct listeners to bully Marquel? Folks. Absolutely. Not. I'm just saying they're projecting anger like this is not the same team as last year. Sixers fans are upset. I understand it. Because they got sold a Bela goods, right? They thought this was going to be Eastern Conference finals for sure future titan with Boston. I completely understand it. I'm all in on Ben Simmons. I still think he's going to be a future top ten player. I thought he was going to be an all-star starter this year. They haven't been that team Edger. That's not my fault for saying that it's some of the guys in the roster's who are playing on the court during a lot of crucial moments. And maybe even getting starters treatment that shouldn't be now where that's where a lot of this criticism should okay. First of all, I believe it's a Bill of goods, not of bale of goods hay bale of good. But you're the best. I'm glad you're listening carefully. Thank you for that. Brett says I'm a longtime listener from down under and I was just enjoying the latest podcast on my Monday morning commute. To work. Sadly, my morning was ruined. By one of my favorite basketball podcasts dual failure on NBA history. And general basketball knowledge, I mean, how can wizards aficionado Andrew sharp? Not recall all the glory of Andrew gazes seven games with the nineteen Ninety-three Washington Bullets and this can only be rivaled by Spurs fan. Ben Golub, erred, not remembering Andrew gazes three point one points per game on the way to a title with the nineteen ninety nine Spurs. It's almost as though Andrew Gaze pick the two teams that gave him the best chance of being remembered by the open four podcast, and yet here we are. So obviously, this is a follow up to our Australian power ranking segment, and we apologize. I think I mentioned that Andrew Gaze never played in the NBA. I believe technically. Played a total of like thirty something games in one season. What I mean with these ninety nine he's Australia's aunt you. Come on, you don't Endo polish is this is ludicrous. Ridiculous. Okay. You're correct. Andrew Gaze plated. The congratulations. There might have been a few other more important players on both those teams that you mentioned. But the problem with the Australians and how much they loved their players Andrew. I can't tell if he's serious or if he's trying to be Starkey sarcastic. Like, I really am concerned that we ruined his based on that. I think it's very I'm pretty cheap. He's hanging out. He's just messing with this. I think he might be really angry at us. Andrew, it seemed like it, but you can always count on the Julia. It's once you think you've reached their limit for national pride. They will just re raise and re raise raise. There's no end in sight to how much they're willing to stand for their guys. It's pretty and we're now getting tagged in Andrew Gaze highlights of apparently, he's a coach in Australia now and someone tagged us in a tweet that he was cursing out his team in the middle of a huddle. I think Andrew Gaze is similar to like the Charles Barkley of Austrailian hoops, I really liked him at the Olympics. He's talkative guy. So congrats to educate his, and we'll be just hope his team plays with more honor than the national team. Did when they tanked that game against the African nation and educated, and I had to get into a little back and forth on Twitter about it. Okay. Let's just hope they play on every single night. They're not trying to just give up free dunks. And and not run plays on offense. Well on that note, everybody go vote in America's elections on Tuesday and cuts actually complete non sequitur. But go vote if you have it already, and then I will talk to you soon. And we'll get on that note. Here's something completely unrelated edgy. It was great chatting with you. I really enjoyed this. And the emailer is once again came through was so much. He really made our job easy. Didn't it Andrew? So go ahead guys. Keep emailing open floor male, edgy dot com. Open floor male, edgy dot com. We really appreciate all your fact checks your pronunciation checks. Your your wanna be checks your trillions? Whatever it my history at our was up aunt you. Go ahead mister gays. We'd love to hear from you. We go round to about us Julia's ethics as a basketball program. An aunt you. People can also check us out on the world famous radio dot com. And also apple pot. Gaskell find our page by searching open floor. That's two words scroll down a little bit. It'll say rate in review tap five stars, we really appreciate those ratings and also leave us a positive review. If you would that makes our our hearts sing. Hey, Andrew until later this week. I will. And another great addition of open floors in the books, did, you know locked on has a daily podcast for all thirty NBA teams. If you're a Lakers fan search loft on Lakers Celtics fan. Search locked on Celtics warriors fans. Search locked on warriors. Yes. All thirty NBA teams have a daily bite-size podcast on the locked dawn podcast network. Search on apple podcasts or Google podcasts for locked on your favorite team or tell your smart speaker to play podcast locked on your favorite team the locked on podcast network. Your team every day.

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Hour 1: Dez Beyant Lucked Out, Wizards Stink

The Stephen A. Smith Show

40:57 min | 2 years ago

Hour 1: Dez Beyant Lucked Out, Wizards Stink

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Stephen they spent show coming at you as I love to do every weekday over to the national airwaves of ESPN radio and ESPN news two hundred and fifty points markets across the United States of America, plus ESPN radio on Sirius XM channel eighty plus ESPN radio som- cast over the live national television Airways of ESPN news number to call always triple eight say ESPN that's eight eight eight seven two nine three seven seven six. We're coming at you live from LA. Tinseltown. Hollywood loss Angeles, California covering LeBron lake is, of course, then it's being brought to you by jell getting Kimball. Exit protection for optimal engine performance was shell v. Power nitro plus premium gasoline time for straight talk. Brought to you by straight talk wireless. Best phones best networks. No conscience. Got champ packed show. Coming your way today. Lots of stuff to get into some NBA action. The Los Angeles Lakers are going against Jimmy Butler. Minnesota timber wolves tonight at the staple center. Jimmy Butler is feeling bodily soreness and may not play tonight. I'll get in the latter little bit late as the show progresses Levy on bell. And the Pittsburgh Steelers. That's another story line to get into. No question about that. No doubt about that. Of course, I'm going to even touch on the Washington Wizards. Could I got stuff on my mind? Then I want to get off my chest along with everything else going on in Eastern Conference, Milwaukee Philly Toronto to list goes on and on. Of course, I'll touch on stuff going on out west with the Los Angeles Lakers. Of course. Since I'm here tonight for that game. Obviously, the Los Angeles Rams are somebody to get into their it will be necessary to continue talking about them in here is the reason why because the number one story percolating right now is news that has broken within the last ninety minutes does Bryant you remember that name. Does brian. Formerly of the Dallas Cowboys the thirty oh wide receiver unceremoniously rejected cut and cast outside of Dallas by the Cowboys. Because it a combination of on field productivity having slipped along with a dominant personality may have been too much for Mr. Dak Prescott and others. The same Dez Bryant who turned down five million dollars to play with the Cleveland Browns because he wanted ten million to play for them. The Ted same Dez Bryant that was without a job all of these months as one week after another after another after another after another path Tempa. Dez Bryant may have ended up landing in the best possible situation of his entire professional career Dez Bryant has agreed to a one year deal with the New Orleans Saints withdrew breezes this quarterback. Dez Bryant has gone from being an outcast. On the accident. Waiting to happen that we know is the Dallas Cowboys who can't buy a damn playoff victory to save their life. To be in a member of a legitimate bona fide Super Bowl championship contender the New Orleans Saints now, I don't know about anybody else. But to meet is the no brainer for Dez Bryant. Especially first things first it can be a more perfect situation for Dez Bryant. I can make the argument that this is the greatest situation of Dez Bryant's career even when he was considered a lustrous and elite even when he was considered a top wide receiving a game of football. It wasn't an ideal situation for him to be playing in Dallas yet an owner wanted to be the president GM and a coach if you ask them who consistently perpetually gotten away, whatever productivity you had hoped from Dallas Cowboys, you had a coach who was nothing more than a puppet in Jason Garrett clearly Amana got the head coaching job because of his relationship with the owner Jerry Jones as opposed to. Anything else? Playing an offensive coordinator in Scotland a hand. Who whether you wanted to call them, a pedestrian or conservative. It didn't matter. He was lacking. In a form of innovativeness. You had a guy in Dez Bryant transitioning from an injury prone Tony Romo too young stud and Dak Prescott but still obviously needing room to grow. And Dallas Cowboys who were an accident waiting to happen either. They weren't good on offense. What they were good on office. But wasn't good defense. And they were good enough. It's a defense but wasn't good with special teams and coaching. And when all of those things seem to line something would happen. Somebody can't stay off. The we. Or somebody Robin a damn department store for Cologne pad draws or somebody testing positive for some P E D use something always happened would Dallas Cowboys, and you go from that to pretty much a model of professionalism a Super Bowl champion, and Sean Payton who's one of the more innovative offensive minds. We've seen in football. To a quarterback and drew Brees who is not only the all Tom leading passer in NFL history. And a few of five first ballot future hall of Famer. But somebody who's approaching the age of forty who is clearly playing for nothing other than another shot at the title. Who bought away approaching his forties? Completing seventy six percent of his passes and one of the top leading candidates for league MVP on us. And guess what? Ladies and gentlemen. I don't even have to stop there. Did you see Michael Thomas performance past Sunday? Did you see what he did to market Peters of the Los Angeles? Rams. I've never seen a cornerback in my life point to figures that more people. Sitting there passing the buck. Like, he was donate. He was contributing charitable and voluntary efforts on thanksgiving like he was given out turkeys or something. That's how much walk read is pointing the finger at people. This is what the hell has been going on. Because Michael Thomas this past Sunday gave it to him twelve receptors two hundred and eleven receiving yards. I mean, he literally blew right by Marcus Peters for one touchdown and have market speed is pointing fingers at defendants before he even got to the damage zone. That's what Michael Thomas did this past Sunday. And I got news for you. Ladies and gentlemen, it was something special to behold, if it wasn't for his idiotic selfish tendency pulling out that cell phone calling himself honor enjoy horn who wanted to stupidest penalties you could find he would have had an unblemished Sunday afternoon. But it still ended up being relatively limits because the saints one forty five thirty five. But I digress. In the end. What we have is a situation right now as we stare at the New Orleans Saints, and we gotta ask ourselves. Does this push push them over the hump? I'm here to tell you. No don't think that. I'm I'm drinking that cool. Eight. You still got a secondary. That's highly suspect in New Orleans defense is highly suspect that can't seem to stop anybody. Remember they allowed the Rams comeback from a thirty five seventeen deficit. They one quarter. Remember that keep your eyes on that? Also, keep you is in effect all in saints would probably need to play at home, although playing at the Rams isn't necessarily a road game. First of all when Green Bay played against the Los Angeles. Rams a couple of weeks all week earlier. There will more Pakistan's if LA Coliseum then there were Rams fans. So that was the case for the Green Bay Packers. What do you think it'd be for the saints? That's number one. Number two, the weather conditions in Los Angeles. It ain't exactly going to Cincinnati or buffalo or Cleveland or even Pittsburgh for that matter off Foxborough Lambeau Field. All Lincoln financial field in Philadelphia. Seattle. You going to southern California to play a role game. You look at. You're looking at the football guidance saying, thank you. We appreciate this warm weather sunshine, clear skies in all likelihood this beautiful situation. So that's something that you have to look at as it pertains. To have an play a road game. Because the Los Angeles Rams. But if you knew all the saints again dead buffet your offense because guess what you drew Brees. You ain't doing outside of the numbers. Anyway, you ain't throwing a bunch of ball comes. You picking cats apart piece by piece fifteen here twenty thirteen twelve there, etc. Etc. You moving those chains Dez Bryant fits nicely into that. Not to mention a fact that even though he was open when he wasn't open. According to folks that chronicled his career in Dallas, he doesn't need to be open for Jew breeze. He can have a slight window. Drew Brees get him to football because he's that great. And Obama the way you can't double cover this. You gotta do that to Michael Thomas. You gotta watch our Kamara coming out of that backfield. You gotta watch Mark Ingram. And a combination of Alvin Kamara running the ball out of the backfield. You gotta find a way to get to drew Brees who's going to get rid of the ball inside of two and a half seconds who bought away has a stout. Offensive line. Protecting them. Which will give them more time to throw giving us more time to get open and single coverage up more likely than not. There's a beautiful situation for this beautiful situation for desk can't say it enough. I will tell you this, and I will go this fall. Does it deliver the Saint a Super Bowl berth? No. Does it improve their chances? Yes. More so than any other time. Even when Atlanta coming on strong with Sarkissian and Matt Ryan finally seeming and sync offensively did defense too many injuries despite Atlanta coming on strong. It ain't Atlanta despite Carolina coming on strong. I don't think Carolina's offense is good enough. And I liked them would funches and Olsen and McCaffrey. And of course, came oh, can I like it all, but I'm here to tell you something right now and Philadelphia to into Venancio champions. I expect them to come on strong. I expect them to confiscate the NFC east from the Washington Redskins who I do not believe in. And I'll give me started with the bears. Their defense is elite. I get that on Ken be at Tom. But it tastes at the right now. Even when the MAC daddy Khalil Mack comes back. I'm not believing in Mitchell Trubisky yet. And eras. I just don't think has a good enough team playing with him despite the bed man that he is. So I think this move for Dez Bryant and additional target for drew Brees to Goto. I am of the mindset. That the NFC. Championship gain has been determined. It will be the Los Angeles Rams up against the New Orleans Saints. I just don't know where the game's going to be at yet. But I think it's pretty safe to say. That that's the confrontation it should be now. One of them could lose the Rams could choke new all these defense can stink even more than it. Actually does ready at the most inopportune of times. So I could be wrong. And I recognize that. But I doubt it. I think the stage has been set. I truly believe that. The New Orleans. Saints will face the lost Angeles Rams for the right to get to the Super Bowl and go up against in my opinion, Patrick Mahomes than the Kansas City Chiefs. Not the Los Angeles charges. Not the Pittsburgh Steelers. Not the New England Patriots. And dance or not the Houston, Texas. I don't believe it. I don't believe. In Pittsburgh's deepest, nor do I believe in chemistry remaining attacked once Levy on bell gets back inside that locker room. Of course, I believe in New England. But I'm not that confident with them on the road in the playoffs. Of course, I'm going to look at Houston and respect the fact that their defense is good would JJ watt. Davey Davey, Connie spearheading their front defensive seven. But the bottom line is offense. Even though they picked up the Mary Thomas, even though they got him alongside the Andre Hopkins and Lamar Miller running the football with the Shawn Watson running the football throwing the football rather. I just think it's a little bit too early meaning too early into the show Watson's career to assume. That the Houston, Texas. We're going to advance in the playoffs. I don't believe it. I just don't believe it. I think the only teams that have a shot at derailing the Kansas City Chiefs. I'll give the charges a shot because they ended the vision. And I spoke to Melvin Gordon yesterday who came on. I take my show on ESPN every weekday morning from ten AM to New Mexico and Molly Kerem. Mel record comes in studio. Obviously, he started Wisconsin. Obviously had a couple of two hundred plus yard rushing games. When he was at Wisconsin. He's a stunt. I believe in them. We know what Philip rivers can do Keenan Allen and the Williams brothers, even though they're not brothers y receivers bottom line is. I don't believe in San Diego you missed the playoffs. Seven of the last eight years for reason, I don't believe. I don't believe in Huston 'cause they offense and Pittsburgh secondary. That to suspect for me to have faith in. And I watched Kansas City come back in that second half and nearly beat New England and Foxborough. I don't think New England's beaten them in Arrowhead stadium. I just don't believe it. So for me to pictures clear, I think the Super Bowl picture is going to be the Rams order saints against the Kansas City Chiefs. I hope I'm wrong because I would love for my Steelers to be in there. But I think is gonna come down to Kansas City versus snow Orleans or the Los Angeles Rams. At eight say ESPN is the number to call eight seven to nine three seven seven six you. Listen, lots of the Stephen a Smith show ESPN radio on another note. I'll get to the Lakers and just a little while. But I just need to get this off my chest. 'cause I'm emotional about this you see, ladies and gentlemen, you might ask yourself. Why the hell is he mess mess mentioning the Washington Wizards you might ask yourself that question might do that. I don't blame you for asking. 'cause they're pretty damn relevant right now. And I get that. But you see, ladies and gentlemen, I like my schedule. And I never apologized for my schedule. I got people looking at me on national television right now. Listen to me on national radio right now. What the hell is he talking about? It's very very simple. My social life matters to me damn it. And I'm not apologizing for it. I happen to like the city of Washington DC. I happen to light Philadelphia, Pennsylvania my second home because I worked there for seventeen years as a reporter for the Philadelphia Kwara happen to love New York City, my home where I was born and raised born in the Bronx raised in Hollis, Queens, New York baby even like Boston because I think their fan base is phenomenal. Don't get much better than Boston. Celtics fans. I'm here to tell you that right now doesn't get much better. But having said all of that because of my work schedule when I'm out west, I'm in two places, I'm in LA on obviously in Oakland because damn it. That's where the worry is are. I just in a flying anywhere else. Anybody else? I wanna see out west. I'll see when they come to L A or Oakland. Those cities that I mentioned that you and eat I'm very very busy, man. I love Charlotte. Love Charlotte went to school with the sale of state, my alma mater, go Rams keep pride die. That's right. I'm not giving North Carolina anti and he loved then he enemy respect the hell out of yellow. But I'm in from Winston Salem state and our fifteen minutes away from Charlotte. I love being down in Charlotte. Just don't get an opportunity to do that much. Who the hell doesn't like the AT L? But we know how sorry that team has right now, they're rebuilding. Trae young is going to be he's going to be nice. And get me started. How I feel about Miami. We all know how much I miss out beach. I just gave LeBron James for leaving to go back to Lake Erie. Take me from south beach, sunshine Biscayne Bay, chilling in a Florida sun covering basketball and the next season the open other season, I'm in four degree weather off Lake Erie doing sports and outside. Why the hell do you think? I didn't like LeBron James, very simple. But that's what under the bridge because he's an LA now. And I love him for it. He's all right with me. But the east coast it's about Boston New York. Philly d c in anytime knows they live up to snuff, go off. Now, you might say well, Steven Huckabee you're going over both the Knicks. It's very very simple. The Knicks perpetually stink. So many times you expect me to say it. I like this Steve mills and Scott Perry and David facility because they're moving in a different direction. I'm going to give them a mulligan. This year next year. I'll be all up in them. If they stink up the joint then and they don't get a marquee free agent free agency. But until then they get past because when you perpetually stink. And you finally changed courts in terms of culture, you need a little time. To Washington Wizards do not have that excuse, ladies and gentlemen. You see when you look at the Washington Wizards and how awful they have been to in eight second worst record in the Eastern Conference. Let's be very very clear about what I'm trying to say the Washington Wizards right now stink. They smell like skunk soup pass gas. Somebody's gotta say it. So I'm saying it they're horrible right now. The reason I'm going off about them is because they're not a horrible team. They're just being horrible because they're not acting like a team. John walls four year. Max extension of one sixty nine point three million dollars hasn't even kicked in yet. It doesn't kick into next season. How do you come into this looking out of shape? You never had a great jump shot. Your game is predicated. The success of your game is predicated on your athleticism, your scale, your ability to get to the basket and run a team how in God's name. Could you slip like this? Irresponsible. Worried about Bradley Beal, even though he can't hit threes right now. Because Bradley Beal is going to get it together. Plus he tries to bring the team together. Markeith morris. I'm not holding them accountable. I know that brother play just like his brother Marcus in Boston could play. I liked them brothers. And whatever struggles he's having far. It would be better. If it's point God was playing better. I mean, it wasn't with us right now. Look like a flat out disgrace. I love me. Some Ernie Grunfeld. Grefell and I go back to his days in the Nixon the nineties. I love Ernie Grunfeld. I think he made the wrong. Call wiscon- Brooks. I am not saying that Scott Brooks doesn't deserve a head coaching job. I genuinely liked Scott Brooks, he knows basketball. I'm not questioning that what I'm saying is Scott Brooks is not a confrontational kind of guy. Everyone who covers the NBA knows it. He likes peace and tranquillity. He's not big on confrontation. John wall is the kind of guy that needs to be pushed dick about what John wall was when his best season was you know, what it was when it was when Randy Wittman was his coach because Randy Wittman was the guy that would get in your face and hold you accountable. He didn't play any games. And he knew the game basketball ready. Whitman should still be a coach in Washington. Soi don't concern. Scott Brooks has the wizards trending in the wrong direction. I'm not saying it's his fault. I'm not saying that I'm saying his personality is such. That he's not in your face like that. And I think that's what John wall needs. Yeah. The white how it hasn't been so great just been back. Three gains feeling his way through he's might have disrupted chemistry a little bit. It takes time. I get that. Austin rivers is what he is you acquired him in the off season. But this falls on a show John wall. He is the face of the franchise. And he cannot be anything less than great. And this franchise flourishes. Why do I bring that up? Bringing it up because of the Lakers. That's why. I am proposing a trade that directly involves the loss Angeles Lakers. And I think it is necessary. And I'm calling it out right now. I'll let you know what that is in a minute. Stay tuned test that you're listening to the Stephen a Smith show ESPN radio, by the way every year. 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Yes. You can't do both. Warning. This product contains nicotine nicotine is an addictive chemical. You'll seem to the Stephen a Smith show podcast. They spent so ESPN radio. Welcome back. Welcome back. Thirty minutes past hour number one back into Stephen Smith show ESPN radio, by the way, it was presented by progressive insurance commercial insurance to progressive. Protect your business injured dream choose from over thirty coverage options at progressive commercial dot com. I went to commercial talking about I have a proposed trade, and it's very very simple to me. I think the loss Angeles Lakers right now. She trade Brandon Ingram. I don't give a damn if you add Lonzo ball in case. Ep contagious call. We'll pope in minutes. They should do whatever they can get their hands on Bradley. Beal of the Washington Wizards. Now, let me be very very clear when I say what I'm about to say. Bradley. Beal doesn't deserve to get traded. I'm not speaking against him. I'm saying he's the one that has value. John wall can ball. And I hope God. I hope John walls listening to me right now. I'm no John wall. The little bit for years, I've known friends, representatives, etc. John wall is a good do. And he's one hell of a basketball player. John wall is a special talent. Okay. John wall. Also is somebody and I got a friend of mine. His name is Todd. He lives in DC, Liz various places because he's rich and successful. And all of this other stuff. Damn good, brother. Love him like a brother. He reminded me today of a quote that John wall wants said. My goal is to be in VP. I don't care about best player in the east. He wants to be league MVP. John wall ain't even the teams in VP. John wall Inkster deal last year that gives them a four year max extension for one hundred sixty nine point three million dollars. This is John wall. John wall is getting paid next season. Not this year. Not right now next season. John wall is getting paid thirty seven point eight million dollars forty point eight million dollars a year after twenty twenty one forty three point eight million dollars twenty one twenty two twenty two twenty three the forty nine point six the forty six point nine million dollars. These ladies and gentlemen as a player option. It ain't even a teams. You get that kind of money and your responses to come into this season, overweight. What possible excuse can you have now? I know he was injured, and he was working out this summer and south reach wasn't what he was just sitting there getting tan, and I'm not accusing him of anything like that. I'm saying that can't happen. You're too important. John wall can play do you know, what it was like for me to watch. Steph. Curry dropped fifty one points on him in three quarters last week, and he responded with thirteen points. Now, you can't stop custom coming. You can't stop Steph curry, but you gotta show up. You can't just spectate when you the face of the franchise. Never been on the same page. We're Bradley Beal him and gore tot he M F cortott to the point where cortott didn't even wanna be in DC anymore. And this was last November. So he played the rest of the not even wanting to beat there. You can't make this up. And I'm looking outside of Bradley Beal, whether it's auto porter, whether it's more Keith Moore's, my brothers, even Otto porter. Stop looking comatose. You gotta show up buddy. You got one hundred and twelve million dollars figuring out. I'm gonna tell you this. I'm not holding outside of Bradley Beal. I'm not holding anybody's performance on a wizards accountable to themselves. I'm looking right at John wall. You the point guard you the leader your faith in the franchise who got your money. And right now, nobody would touch that contract. That's why you can't move him. If I'm the Lakers within going to wear. Was ain't going nowhere. You ain't beat Milwaukee. AP Toronto AB Boston. That means the best shot that you got is getting out of the first round. And that's about it unacceptable. Unacceptable. You take like sitting up here saying that somebody should lose their job. I think Scott Brooks can coach I think there's a lot of teams in NBA that will be lucky to have Scott Brooks as a head coach. I'm just saying because of the personalities on the wizards combined with his personality as a head coach. He isn't the right guy for that job. That's all I'm saying. He making seven million a year. And they're trending downward. Somebody got to say, so I am. And I take no pleasure in it. Because I love Ernie Grunfeld. We go back decades. And I'm certainly not gonna call for him to be going. But you gotta get in a stronger wheel coat somebody. That's got the power to bring down the hammer. And we'll use that hammer. That's what you gotta do. But if you to Lakers, their problems your haven. Go out there and go after Bradley Beal because guess what it's a trade. So it doesn't compromise a cap space that you expecting to have available next year for whether it's Kawai Linnet. Kevin Durant a trade involving Anthony Davis. Maybe that might compromise. It that's true. But you gotta try something because we all know the story with the Lakers right now. They got to do something Luke Walton has got to change his coaching staff to some degree loses a job outside. He's got to get them play. But defense. But I'm not trying to sit up the Intel you that Bradley Beal or John wall, or whatever is a problem. I'm saying they don't work together. They don't work together. There's a clearinghouse seal that needs to take place in the nation's capital. And I got news for y'all. To some of y'all eight the White House and two others. It ain't just the White House depending on which side you take. But I promise you. Whereas you my Republicans and Democrats out there going back and forth back and forth. That's what needs to take place in the White House. Everybody is a lawn. Well, what the hell needs to take place at the Verizon center. There needs to be a clearing out sale. And the Lakers should do everything. They can capitalize on it. Or they're I say the Knicks. It ain't like the Knicks couldn't use a shooting guard like, Bradley Beal. Camus John wall. Now that contract. But you could move Bradley Bill. It eight say ESPN inundate seven to nine three seven seven six, Mike. You live Stephen a real quick grow. How will you man to hear from you? If you wanna come on man there disgrace right now man and like to say they need to do so fares cause ain't going nowhere. Neither no way this travesty. What they down there that travesty. You know, like, you said John wall everybody getting all that money became like, you say in need to more leadership and be better point guard and be a better leave it there. You know, ridiculing everybody tried to get everybody together. And that will be a good deal. If they could move Bradley Beal through lake you probably could get jar. You probably gonna get bread angle from the Lakers goes, I think managers putting up a smoke. Mike, Mike, Mike that by the way. I'm glad you mentioned that. But see, this is why love you because I know, you know, your basketball. Here's the deal. Magic johnson. Brandon Ingram of smokescreen. I can't believe how many people don't see. This y'all really believe Magic Johnson. When he says renting Eggers the best the second best player on on. The lakers. Are y'all smoking crack he doesn't Magic Johnson doesn't believe that. Magic doesn't doesn't believe. Brandon Ingram ain't the most an available option to the Lakers. Brent that's count coups MMA flaws. I'm concerned LeBron coups Ma Josh haunt everybody else. You could take them to leave him as far as I'm concerned on the Lakers. This was going to have it. They manage just putting that out there because somebody's gonna take angle because he got I'm being for years old everybody angles. Lebron he's not gonna fit with the Brown. That's cool. Not ingram. Appreciate the call. Mike. I gotta go, man. Thank you editing. Say ESPN eight seven to nine three seven seven six. Celebrate fall. Birthdays and anniversaries autumn roses from my friends at one eight hundred flowers dot com right now. One eight hundred flowers is offering thirty six owner roses for thirty six dollars to order. Thirty six autumn roses for just thirty six dollars. Fellas could have one eight hundred flowers dot com slash ESPN back with your calls and more in a minute. You're listening. Lob, Stephen ESPN radio ESPN, news technology truth brought to you by cold. Truth teenagers can communicate entirely in emojis. How why God birthday party? This kitten soccer ball pineapple truth. It's so easy to switch and save on car insurance at geiko dot com. Why aren't you talking about? Paperclips shoulder. Shrug high five wizard hat what go fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percents or more. Guess what you're in the middle of the Stephen swift show podcast. David. Selectquote could get you up to ten points or ten options. I'm sorry. From highly rated life insurance for free personalized quote, call one eight hundred six zero one six nine nine two or go to selectquote dot com. To the phones we go back to the phones we go. Let's go to Mike you lava even they talked to me. It was one on. Say why would you cool late on the same? So many rounds on one of the symbols just because of drew Brees along man on. I have a guy that will that Tango to LA and winning for them with the Mike Thomas and Camara. And. Newness? So that's why I would say them Rams and on your your Lakers comment. I definitely and just like you said you hold John John log listen to to to your show right now. Listen when I heard him come back from suspension and say that you didn't they knew right away. You would be back in starting lineup. I knew right then. And there man, this guy think he old something and yet improved enough to feel like he owed some so on you before that trade for Bali Bill right now, if they could if they could I don't think they could I don't think the wizards a looking to give Bradley Beal, my boy champ, who's starving for recognition. He texts me every single day about basketball items because he thinks he's the godfather the ultimate guru would be ball. So I try to even though he's my brother, and I love him dearly. He gets on my damn nerves because half the things he says makes no sense. And he's more emotional than somebody watching soap operas, we'll popcorn and soda. But that's who he is. He didn't make a very valid point. Which I will give him credit for Bradley Beal. On the Toronto. Raptors would be something to behold, I don't think the wizards would make such a deal. But champ doesn't know that because he doesn't really really know the business of basketball. He's too busy being emotional about players. He hates he doesn't even think they LeBron James's a top ten player in the NBA. So that's why banned him from the show. But I appreciate the call. Thank you. Let's go to Matt eulogised even a real quick, Matt go ahead. Stephen. I'm a huge fan of your work. I've been watching you for over a decade. But I just wanted to ask you has John John wall lost the locker room. I don't know of John wall ever had the locker room when Paul Pierce was the Paul Pierce had to lead because John wall and Bradley Beal weren't leaders. That's why they brought Paul Pierce in here. All right. So I think that if you look at Ernie Grunfeld, for example, as much as I love earning there were some mistakes that he made when you know, you didn't rea- Paul Pierce. There's a couple of other plays a loss. I don't think he should ever lost Trevor REEs, I thought that was a huge loss in a huge mistake on the part of the Washington Wizards for the most part, I put most of this on John wall. You're the face of the franchise is not just incumbent upon you to go out the average twenty eight and bien all-star when you talk about really really winning when it counts, you gotta be more than that. I know walk in play. He's no scrub, but you've got to be more than what he has been. You just got to. It's just unacceptable to be less. Okay. Look at somebody like Victor Oladipo and what he's doing in Indiana. He's a star. He's a star who closes by the way. Who closes we need to mention Victor Oladipo a hell of a lot more than we have four hours to get somebody like him. But that's enough. For me. Paul finebaum up next to start off. Our number two. Lots of college football stuff to get into before. I get back to these NFL items in the NBA with Brian as well. Plus Andre ward from a light heavyweight champion in the world. He'd be on with us as well. Stick around the Dow our number two, Stephen that's just a sample of what you hear on the Stephen swift show, weekdays at one PM eastern on ESPN radio and ESPN app. My name is Lauren. I'm thirty three. I didn't want my identity to be the smoking. Mom, my first experience with jewel. I do remember being like distance good. It's it's it's like a cigarette. Butt nine. I don't miss smoking. At all. Like, I can officially say it grosses me out jewel is the tobacco alternative that delivers nicotine satisfaction without cigarette. Ashra lingering odor make the switch at J dot com slash sports. Warning. This product contains nicotine nicotine isn't a chemical.

Los Angeles Lakers John John wall ESPN Bradley Beal Rams Dez Bryant Los Angeles Washington Wizards Stephen basketball Stephen a Smith football NBA ESPN nicotine Los Angeles Rams New Orleans Saints Drew Brees John wall
The NBA Is Back; We Break Down Everything You Need To Know

NBA Front Office w/ Keith Smith & Trevor Lane

45:32 min | 5 months ago

The NBA Is Back; We Break Down Everything You Need To Know

"Welcome to the NBA Front. Office show bringing you inside rumors and transactions around the league with your hosts. Keith Smith and Trevor Lane brought to you by Lakers, nation dot, com and CEO NS media. Hello everybody, welcome back to the NBA Front Office show so glad to have you here and speaking of welcome back. Welcome back to the NBA NBA basketball is back. We're going to talk all about about that. We are fired up here on the front office show today before we dive into everything, make sure you're following the twitter account at front office show and make sure if you're listening to this, show the podcast only virgin you reap review and subscriber on Apple podcasts or spotify or wherever you're finding a stitcher whatever it doesn't matter and. And if you're watching us on the Lakers, nation Youtube Channel. Don't forget to make sure you subscribe there and make sure you bring that notification Bell, so you get notified every time there's a new video coming out joining me as always I'm troubling for Lakers nation, dot, com, and with our powers combined. We've got Keith Smith here Keith. You're pretty much everywhere at this point, but the bottom line NBA is back. I I did a giant fist pump when the news broke this morning. We've been waiting for it and finally that days here. Yeah, no doubt I've got a little co host here with me today I think he's appropriate for the. He's going to. He's going to sit in here and watch just off camera and make sure I. Stay on key in. Don't get into too much trouble. Man William supersized. We knew was getting close. We you and I have been increasingly more optimistic over the past few weeks. That we were heading in this direction and now really it sounds like it's. I don't want to say merely a formality, but pretty close to that. I was told that they expect nearly unanimous approval of their plan, which organ breakdown in-depth to return to play in is far as the Disney side goes, that will set Disney on the path of how many rooms do they need? Where what how for how long and all those sorts of things and enthroned outside comes a lot of crossing, t's and dot is and off we go, so I think we are just about their for this to start up. Yeah and you know what I am. I'm really impressed. Because I went into this thinking and we're GonNa? Let's work going to break down exactly what the plant is, but I went into this thinking. Gosh, you know what somebody is going to be. Mad, Baltimore teams are probably going to be mad. ONE OPTION ADAM SILVER GOES WITH YOU'RE GONNA have teams that are upset. That are angry. That are unhappy I. Think they've done about as good of A. A job as possible of making as many teams happy as they possibly can I feel like they've they what they've come up with here. This middle ground is is great. I think they've done a tremendous job with again. That's not the sabers. He's going to be happy. Everybody's always. GonNa have something to gripe about, but in terms of satisfying the largest number of teams and keeping things as fair as possible. I think Adam silver is under tremendous job. Yeah agree in in IB. Curious if we get reporting Donna line from someone of WHO's plan. This actually was cool. Propose this twenty two team plan because you know it came from somebody or collection of of somebody's to to get because your maybe lyrics of Washington combined on right. His. Maybe. We because I think it was a week ago, we were talking and it was leaked down to these four kind of plans week before that it was like. Here's the twenty different versions. This could go in and in with you I know there's a couple teams. The Atlanta Hawks really wanted to come back day. They wanted to play members of the Chicago Bulls wanted to play the Charlotte Hornets, really kind of led by Michael Jordan, wanted no of coming back and playing. Golden State Warriors They Were Front, Office and coaching staff really out on coming back and playing but I think you'll adam silver said someone's going to be unhappy or multiple someones going to be unhappy, but we FDA yo do what's best for the League as a whole and I think the plan they hit on ultimately does that yeah, yeah, and let's just break down what? What the plan is so twenty two teams are coming back teams within six games of their eighth and final playoff seed in their conference or coming back, so that means in the east. You've got the Washington Wizards in the West five teams. You've got the blazers the Spurs. The PELICANS are coming back. You've also got the Phoenix Suns sneaking in there as well as. As the Sacramento Kings the sons are at the bottom. They are six games back which we'll talk all about that, but then the way they came up with us because we were wondering. What is this going to look like? How do you? How do you still give a team like say the Memphis? Grizzlies Orlando Magic an advantage for the fact that they are in the. The eight seed right now and what the NBA settled on, and this is from shops. Rania broke this. The idea is that if when they finish playing eight games, everything's GonNa. Come back and play eight games once they finish those eight games. If whoever is in the eight seed is four games or more up on the next closest team. That's it. It's done no. No play in Terni. That team is the eight. That team is going to the playoffs. If it's less than that, then you're going to have a playoff tournament and you're going to have the nine seed playing the eight seed. The eight seed is in double elimination, which means they have to get defeated twice. The nine seed would only have to lose one so the example. Example I gave earlier on the Lakers nation Youtube Channel was let's say it stays the same in the West, and you've got the grizzlies in the eight seed, and the blazers in the nine seat, and everything stays as eight games. The Blazers and Grizzlies would play, and if in the first time they play the Blazers win. They would then play another game and whoever? Whoever won that game would be the team to get the playoff spot whereas if they played the first game and the grizzlies one that's in it's done. The Grizzlies would have the playoff seed, so I liked that I. liked it. They've set. They've set a very reachable goal for whoever that eats seed is to just secure their spot. They only have to go up. Up have to be up four games, which be looked the Orlando Magic and are really good spot to do that and the Memphis Grizzlies. Only have to increase their standing a little bit for those teams that are trailing to. It's an achievable goal for them as well to get themselves into at the very least that ninth seed, and earn themselves a playoff spot. Yeah absolutely well. What I in are just pulling up the standings in case I need it. But what to me makes a Lotta sense with this is you had the NBA what they said they did was they went back and looked historically, and how far teams with about an average of fifteen games to play or so, how far they had made up deficits in the past and that was. GonNa be historical persons for six games, so that's why they landed on the sons and the wizards. Now there's also a piece era of couple. More teams couple more games that get put on TV little more revenue. Come answer. So let's not be. Let's not be. Crazy enough, or you know naive enough to believe that doesn't matter as well because it clearly does. So I think what you're really looking at here is is a plan. That satisfies a competitive balance as best you can in this. Weird kind of resumption of the season. That Rin is well as it brings additional revenue in so in a Lotta ways. This is kind of a win. Win Plan and I I like it and I and I'm with you that they protected those teams that are currently in the playoffs if they can't. Win Enough to stay ahead by the margin needed or then win two out of three games while and Yo- you had your chance since can outright Oh. Yeah absolutely, and now so the question becomes. What is that eight game schedule? Look like because I think that's going to be really key especially. If you look at this, there's dogfight in the West. Are they taking a chunk of the team schedule? I don't know I. Don't know that we've heard perhaps. I missed it, but I haven't seen anything yet on exactly what that schedule looks like because that could be a major factor although I still think even if we today like if we say a team. Has a really tough schedule. If they're playing against teams that are say, it's like the Lakers or like or like the the box, some of these teams at the top word. They're pretty locked into their spots. How hard are those teams going to be playing? Are they're going to be going to be playing their starters? So even if we look at it and say Oh, you know. The Blazers got a really tough draw. That might not be the case, but I'm really curious to see what the actual schedule will look like. Yeah, 'cause. You're absolutely right off. Just pure strength schedule. It looks like the Lakers team. You don't WanNa play at all, but if you get into us, Pau where it is, you know the Lakers are just kind of treating these as warm up. Slash preseason games while then. Maybe, that is a team. You WanNa draw same thing with the box or any number of other teams I think it's going to be interesting to see how they bounce it I'm curious if they make it just as easy as the eighteen or the nine teams in the east all, please. They play each other once and the teams in the West. Each other wants you miss out on playing a couple of teams, and that's curious to see. How come together, so I'm definitely. Interested as we know, there's going to be screaming and yelling from some parties involved somewhere in someone won't like their seat or won't like the fact that they didn't get in boyfriend. The game in the Pelicans have a gripe because they had I think two games left against the cavs, and your a bunch of other easy game, so so I get where they're coming from a to so so we'll ultimately see yo work goes from, and you'll how it all comes together. At the end of the day, everyone's going to be given a chance. This really starts to come back to you. Do what you can't on the floor to get in in then my other pieces just again. I'm not naive, can be overly worried about who's playing the box and the Lakers in the first round 'cause. You're probably out for five games as it is anyway. It could be I. Am I I think it is an a little bit of excitement, though because you're going like okay, the each of the east, not so much like I. Look at the standings and I see the Washington Wizards are five and a half games back from the Orlando Magic. The Orlando Magic have a negative point nine point differential. Where's the wizards is a negative negative for like there's a pretty big difference between these two teams, the magic, clearly the better team I think that's going to be a little bit more whole-home. Wizards are going to be making a push for that eight seed, really by look in the West I think man. This is going to be exciting just to see these teams scrapping to get a playoff spot, and if it turns into Lebron Versus Zion in the first round, or even Damian Lillard versus versus the Lakers and versus Lebron like that's some excited. There's something on the line here for the NBA. There's something on the line for those teams that are in the mix, and you look at the difference between them. Them just in terms of point differential. They're all right in the same grouping. These are some pretty high quality teams here and so I'm excited to see what that that whole dogfight looks like and I would say if there's a way to do this and I. Don't know if there is but I would like to see those teams. The Grizzlies the Blazers Pelicans King, spurs and sons play each other as much as possible so that you get a the most accurate result as far as having the best team come through. Yet No, absolutely not I'm with you I think the deal. Quite frankly just a fan of the game I wanted to get to the play in tournament. I don't want to do this eight games, and just you know the magic, or you'll five or six games and the grizzlies. Are you know five games, and and it's Don I would like to get to the play him Derek Carr's that gives us a you know some some really fun, but I can understand from those teams Fan's perspective while the we'll wait a minute like come on. We kinda are in this, but I think again. The NBA's giving you a games to increase your lead a little bit, and if you can't do that, you you still going to be beaten two times and three games to to get knocked. Knocked out and I take dots. You're really really important, so let's look at the standings real quick and just do a quick glance and see within an eight-game period. What could what could change? I mean I'm looking at you know the Pacers and the seventy sixers could very easily swap places there in the in the Eastern Conference the Miami Heat only two games up on the patient like a lot of these the playoff seedings here are not set in stone. Even the Orlando Magic are only a early a game back of the seven with the Brooklyn Nets like that's their right there. I could see a lot of doubt one. Yom would that one you now? It's going to be completely different, but most of the models had the magic overtaking the nets for the seven because Kazan easier scheduled down the stretch in the magic were starting to come on plant, some of their better basketball over the last you know, let's call a couple of weeks leading into the shutdown. Yeah, it's definitely in the Eastern Conference Yo is I look at it. May The box are locked in? They're gonNA finish one. There's no, unless they come and say you know we're not paying anybody. And they lose all eight games and the raptors would have to leave then still win all lake. That's not going to happen you know the Celtics Sam. Maybe they catch Toronto will probably not, but I think they're probably more locked into three did it looks like the three behind Toronto in the two seed, two and a half up on Miami. Somebody do the math earlier I think it was Miami would have to go seven and one of Boston went four and four. To demolish a dick that makes sense math wise I didn't do it myself but yeah so I think you really looking for five six and then seven eight dosier races there in the navy. The wizards you know played completely out of their mind. It wouldn't count it out with Bradley beal. Guy Can win a game or two all on his own, so you'll. Maybe that is five and a half games. They've gotTa make the game and a half just to get into the playoff portion. You. Sounds easier said than done with only games to play that still a pretty big task to pull that off. Yeah, eight games to play his not much to make up ground. So that's where you look at the grizzlies and you can say okay. There are three and a half games up. All they have to do is extend that by half a game and they're, and they're free and clear right, so that's a very reachable goal for them as well, but then looking at the west, we know Bloomberg. Bloomberg Donna Vich is gone now for the Utah. Jazz and they're only one game up on the sixth seed like they could very easily fall a couple of a couple of spots here they could follow the sixth seed on depending on how things play out I look at the The Oklahoma City Thunder in Houston Rockets are both nine and a half games back there tied their I feel like the Lakers are pretty safe with the clippers, being the closest at five and a half game back. But I look at those three teams. Really I look at those and I think the jazz thunder and the rockets there could be a lot of movement there and I think the Denver. Nuggets could actually catch up to the clippers. If for some reason, they still the clippers still wanNA load, manager or something like that. Yet, and that is a possibility because what I was told is easy. Games are going to be played in a two week period. Four Games per day are predict per week. me also when you play four games per week. That's your roughly playing every other day I'm in that period and not steal something that we could definitely see them. still guys out, if especially if you if a guy out of this training camp portion and it's. It's like is a little nick. He's dealing with something a little bit of soreness and it's quite Leonard hundred percent. It said a modem. We'll let the playoff matchups fall. You know where they do now. I will say One of the interesting thing is right the jazz, even the the Mavericks Two, and a half games back all the way down and seven year. They're not that far back either. So you know again the big big ask. Ask you know, but I think you know it's really interesting there and then the third teams can achieve some Memphis again. Just like in the east. Yo. It's a little easier because it's only three and a half four games for most of them, but to make up that ground. That's that's it's difficult, but at least they're gonNA. Have that opportunity and we'll see what it looks like you know I'm glad that you brought up the mavs that. That was one of my big points of contention with the plans that we were hearing for while they'll. We were hearing that it could be a seven through twelve tournament with those final two spots, both eight and seven, being up for grabs, and I thought no way whatsoever was that fair to the Mavericks who are ten and a half game up on the nine seed the Portland Trailblazers so now they're. They're pretty much, they're they're I mean. I. Guess IF THEY LOST EVERY GAME AND MEMPHIS won every game, they could you know they could switch places, but Likely the mavs are locked in, so I was glad to see that. I didn't think they deserve to be. It'd be lumped into that group. Now I'm with the I I'm one hundred percent there you play as well as they did forty and twenty seven. You Know Your Europe playoff team need you don't need to be in the midst of Yoni nonsense and again even if they're one and done I. WanNa see Luke in the playoffs. KRISTAPS PORZINGIS in the playoffs. You Know Rick. Carlisle's can have something. For whatever that first round playoff series is so i WanNa see you know that team in the playoffs I, don't want to. you know I didn't want to get into a weird spot ultimately at the end of the day. Just like I think you are loved basketball, so I don't care who it is I'm GonNa Watch, you no matter what these Games are, and who these teams are, but I do. Thank y'all we. This is the best setup Dali broken record now, but it's best set up to put the. The best teams and those teams that get in the mail. Ever you know and I feel pretty comfortable in saying that. Yeah, I know when this thing again I. I went into this pretty skeptical thinking. You know what this this is GonNa be really hard to figure out. You'RE GONNA. Get some teams that are unhappy. How do you give the sita good advantage? How do you still give? Give these other teams illegitimate shots so that they can't you know like the Blazers and the Pelicans and stuff can make the argument that. Hey, we probably would have caught the grizzlies. I think they've done a great job of navigating a very delicate balance between giving that eight CNN advantage, but also providing an opportunity for those other teams to catch up that they would have lost out on. On if they had just gone straight into the playoffs so again Kudos to the NBA I'm very impressed by what they've pulled off here and we've been hearing. Keep that. There's talk of perhaps expanding rosters a little bit. I know you had something on that, so that could be a little bit of strategy here as we head into what becomes the the playoffs and eventually maybe play tournament. Yes, so there's a couple of things that teams are asking. The NBA for is they would like lenience due to injuries. If anything crops up, or if anybody happens to get sick and comes down with us, they would like at a minimum. They want their two way players to be eligible for the playoffs currently as it stands today, two way players are not eligible. They would like the Game Day rosters several teams. Teams rather than being thirteen active players bumped up. Fifteen is something they've asked for. I even know that there's a couple of teams that are said. We want twenty man rosters to come in now. You can only have thirteen fifteen active on game day. We to be able to add if you extra players. Just because you know of anything happens because this is a different environment. You're asking a lot of these guys. Fully Ready. There's not going to be time to because it's a condensed window to play these games and there's not gonNA. Be Time to really recover from things like you might have had in a normal playoff environment, so I think we are really starting to get into his body where teams are going to start, pushing was told is right. Before we started recording was a team, said yeah, that's all still gala deloitte was. What's the? The format. Let's get dat decided on dem. We'll get all the details as far as rosters roster sizes. So I think that's all going to be calm here. Probably within the next, let's call a week. We'll get all those details as well I think that's GonNa be something fascinating, but fascinating to look at because some of the the justification for not bringing back all thirty teams is hey. We are reducing the number of people there. Were therefore reducing the risk right, so but if team suddenly want twenty man rosters. What what was the point of not bring you know you're then you're shifting things again. You're adding more people when you just subtracted some so I think it'll be interesting to see what the NBA goes with. I like the idea of making your way. Contracts eligible I also wouldn't mind seeing a few extra players added to a roster, maybe maybe adding up to twenty. Maybe that's excessive I. Don't know, but I liked the idea in theory of adding some pieces to to a roster. Just so you make sure that you have enough healthy bodies and I think it's the kind of thing that the NBA has shown that they can adapt to changing situation so. I wouldn't mind seeing that. Go through at all. Yeah I think that. You know it's a yellow It's going to be important because you need to get this to a place where you just don't WanNA team. Season to be wrecked because you're missing multiple layers, that's what it comes down to one guy roles, an ankle and his for two weeks. That happens every year we see that I mean the NBA finals last year. Co, Klay Thompson and Kevin Durant both get injured in the middle of the finals or out we saw with the cavaliers showed up with Lebron. James me you and two other dudes. New Play the warriors that one year. It's just you know that happened, so it really is I think it's one of those things where this is just. It happens regularly, but the chance for this to happen I think is great or now just because of how quickly everything is moving, so they want to make sure that they're taking care of so Keith. I I agree with you. Hundred percent of that and I'd like to see that that brought in, but one of the thing that's popped up here and that I've noticed is I. Don't know how they'll use gonNA. Handle this. So what about the draft? Draft picks what about the tanking team so I saw a tweet earlier where someone was advocating the wizards losing all eight of their games, because they have no shot against the bucks in the first round anyway, and then they could actually drop a little bit by percentage and get a better lottery, odd versus teams like the Hornets, the Bulls et Cetera that are that are stagnant. Do you have any thoughts on how the NBA's going to handle that? Nope, and that's that the roster's. Things about the Disney bubble We have all been kind of hammering on those questions. One of them is the draft and the draft lottery. How does that work, does it? He are the wizards and San's and whoever you outs gets knocked out or they kind of locked in where it is now with the rest of those teams when it comes to the lotteries. Lotteries ever we're going to do or are. We account these games that they play into the lottery in those kind of things and I have not heard a clear answer on that I think the simplest thing is to say whatever the fourteen teams aren't in the playoffs. It's affect their their records and position in the draft. Lottery in the draft is effective at the. Where the season was. because. I think that is fair, and even for all then you move on from there as far as doing another thing, yeah I agree a hundred percent I would. I would lock it. I would say you're done. Because those teams that are static, don't have an opportunity to go. Do other things to go lose more games in theory right, so I think that's the fairest way to to approach that situation, but we'll see how the NBA handles it and the other thing that's come up and this actually broke last night. This was from date McMenamin of ESPN. was that not only are. Is there concern on that end, but there's also been concerned. Concerned from teams at the top, and he didn't mention specific teams, but we can assume you're probably looking at this this this coalition of the top teams. You're probably talking the Lakers. The box the raptors. The Celtics the clippers. The nuggets teams like that that are in that that upper-echelon are a little frustrated that they are losing court advantage. That's going to be gone which there's no getting around that, and so they want some sort of compensation for that Keith. What are your thoughts on that that concept to begin with, and then some of the things that have been proposed I don't know that it goes through, but just what? What's your take? Yeah Mine General take on that is Wa. I mean I. Get it, but it's you know there's nothing that can be done about it. You'RE GONNA have to deal with it one way or another. Don't want anything crazy. That starts to make different game you. I saw one person throughout on twitter I. Don't want to say who it is because I consider them to be relatively credible usually was like. Maybe those teams should start with a two or three point advantage each game anti. What are we doing here? No, we're not. This is not a gambling line this is. Where we have to play these games, so you know I do. I agree that they're losing something absolutely. One hundred percent agree that there is something I don't know. That it is you know I. Don't know that it is. Dead debt there's much you can do about it, though maybe be an extra time out or an extra coach's challenge. Maybe that is fine for the higher seed in those games or the team. That would be the quote unquote home team. That could be you know don I dive. Maybe make some sense there but what I will say you know is with that is. It's going to be What what do you do now? Me I'm hearing some stuff as far as you know. Let them pick a hotel right at Walt Disney world. That's not a thing that's going to happen. Well Disneyworld, giving the NBA twenty two different hotels. It's not it's not a thing that's going to happen. It was never part of the plan to begin with anyway at that point, it might as well just you know. The Disney wouldn't be opening. There's already multiple hotels on Disney property that are allowing guests to book stays during the time that the NBA will be on property as well so it's not gonNA happen. It is You know they're. They're going to give them a couple of. Maybe as many as three in, they're going to work with the the NBA on how those assigned. Maybe the NBA does something as far as preference within that, but I don't think that's going to be the case either the whole hotel draft as much as the NBA. Disney dirt in me is like these love. God give me a hotel draft. Downed it's just not going to happen. That's going to be a thing so. I agree it doesn't make a lot of whole Lotta sense. It's like Gibbs on the on the top bunker. Whatever that's that's what they're going with their, but. I understand their gripe and I understand. People are going to say oh. It's the rich getting richer and all that, but the same time like if you're if you're trying to make sure that you don't have an Asterisk, wouldn't. Teams like the bucks they fought all season for the number one seat in the entire league. And now they're not going to get that advantage like that's got to be a little bit frustrating for them that they don't get home. Court advantage throughout the playoffs which which can matter. I'll tell you what the extra coach coaches challenge. Whatever I don't think that's. That's that big of a deal. Personally want that. We don't need anymore to stop. Way Too long. I don't like that the first. Thing that's not. That's not happening. the one I saw. One player gets seven fouls instead of six. I like Dwight Howard would love that. Daniel Thais might might love that. Daniel Thais who had yeah. That's your lauck pack variety for the the Celtics to get TB that so, but I'd be I. Don't know about that. One of the craziest one that I saw was transport your home floor to Orlando, and then you get the place on. On the table. That's what's very briefly like. Transport your floor for the Lakers say across the country. That can't be cheap. I mean the last time I moved my personal basketball. No Yeah it's not gonNA. Be Cheap, also so Disney's open to the idea Disney. Has the courts available to assemble and setup. They do it all the time anyway, so they're not overly lake while we don't have any. Yom! Courtier so we need someone to come in but they're open to it. Here's your challenges. One is to store them is in between games is a little crazy in the just set up in the assembly and disassembly of those core Title I. Don't Know How you do that when you're going to be playing multiple games a day in the same Jim, said I know these these coworkers fantastic at setting up at breaking things down bowl. Say Hey, want to get. GET INTO I don't know if you saw just kind of broke here while we're while Ben Recording so very good well from over Yahoo, sports says the plan is for teams to continue their schedule as plan with their next eight games as scheduled. If a team is scheduled to play the Hawks, bowls, pistons etc. It moves onto the next game on their schedule. League sources tell Yahoo Sports, so that is kind of interesting to see how they put that together. Because! It's I've got you know people tweet Ami on Celtics twitter. Already that would give Boston the box. Wizards, Raptors, nats, wizards, again, grizzlies, trailblazers, and heat so I guess like you're already. GonNa Kinda play those games out, but I look at a team like the Pelicans which had several teams on their schedule. Believe that weren't going to be involved in this. You'RE GONNA, have to fill in those eight games. Somehow they're gonNA. Get filled in with Lakers clippers. You know other teams I. I'm not so sure about that one five. Yeah I'm looking right now six. Seven. There it is eight. The Blazers and the Grizzlies would play twice in that span with if you skip over the teams that are gone interesting well. It's interesting that that could that could completely shift the entire conference. I are the entire race there right. In fact, the Blade based on this the blazers would start against the grizzlies and finish against the grizzlies imagine that. Yeah right wow okay. All right something I mean you know it's probably the most fair way to do it just to say. Hey, whatever your schedule was a and that's it is what it is. But interesting, interesting that those the Games are going to play. Of course you can say then. Do you fill in I? Guess you're just skipping I. Don't think any team would run out of games played at that point, so you can't be accused of bias by like filling and like say okay. The I'm here on the Blazers schedule The blazers, playing the timber wolves, or supposed to on March seventeenth. You'RE NOT GONNA. Slow the Lakers into that spot instead. You're just GONNA. Skip that game and they're going to go to the march nineteenth game against the Dallas. Mavericks and my my understanding that right. So I understand hard. I, you know we'll. We'll see I. Don't know that that is you know. Felipe does decided again. It's interesting I- Yum by be all clearly I believe. Vinci's tied in pretty well. You know so I think he's you speak him from a place of You know he's not making a guess at this clearly, so m curious to see how that works out with those teams that they don't have teams left on their schedule that are in the twenty two team bubble. That makes sense makes sense, won't. Look we're? We're kind of going to do things on the fly and that's what the NBA has to do. They've got to make decisions as they go on to Memphis would play twice to. Would they. So Memphis gets get into injured. PELICANS remaining schedule will be clippers jazz urge. Could, squeezing kings. Kings jazz-clippers. burs Grizzlies Kings Grizzlies magic while so those teams will be playing each other a lot anyway. That's probably part of the thing part of what the NBA was looking at, and they thought okay. This is a pretty fair thing I know. We get a lot of people. Obviously on the Lakers, nation youtube channel watching this so just to run through the Lakers scheduled real quick. We've got we've got. They would have the rockets. The nuggets the jazz, the Jazz, the raptors. The Pacers. And the Kings. From doing that, right? Two three four. Five Six Seven, Oh and the thunder eight, so basically we had talked about how the the Lakers scheduled got a little bit tougher, but they had a lot of kind of easier teams sprinkled in. Those easier teams are are gone, so they'd be skipping like their games against the Hornets the Pistons. The cavs games like that, so that's that's interesting, but in any event. At least we have some clarity on that and and again I can't fault the NBA for going that route, because they're trying to keep things as fair as possible and avoid that dreaded. asterisk tag right. Yeah absolutely, and I apologize for a little sloppy. This breaking news? We're we'll be breaking news probably by the time you all listen to what is breaking news to us right now, so we're. We're reacting to this live in the moment so in doing the best we can, and I'm I'm trying to tweet and readings at the same time and own by probably not giving trevor the attention he here and I'll be honest. They tuned out a little on the Lakers schedule. Sorry. I don't know that it really matters I. Think they're just fine Worried about their record I'm just I just WANNA see who they're playing. Yeah, absolutely. Now, absolutely clearly I think this is going to be really really interesting with how this. Comes together and this is Joe just kind of looking at it starts to make sound some you know if you do it only with the bubble teams. Maybe you're really looking at. Those teams against each other to. That's how you're going to decide this nine. You're not you could be the way to go versus creating something new which I think opens you up to a whole bunch of your screaming and yelling and things that are you know that was fair? You gambled it to get the Pelicans or whatever if you just played on, this was most of what your schedule was. This as most sawyer schedule was off ago. Ago. Yeah agree one hundred percent, and you know what you mentioned. This I believe you mentioned on the Lascaux. Maybe it was something you mentioned off air, but but in any of it we had a conversation and you were talking about how one of the things may be getting overlooked. Is that logistically? There's a lot of people in the NBA Front Office that would like to keep things as simple as possible, and this is a very simple. While still maintaining that that Arab fairness. Yeah. Absolutely they are one hundred percent. There's this belief. Oh! This is all so complicated. Why are we going to add all these things? Why were we gonna add these things I would do a why. Why would we have these things like the group stage or one to sixteen seeds and recedes and eliminate conferences and. Other south. They're like some parts of this. Just need to be simple so that everybody knows what to expect and you move on and off. We go because so much of the rest of this is really complicated. Yeah, exactly and you know what Keith before we before we wrap things up here today. I do want to talk a little bit about. What this means though the NBA coming back because one of the one of the big things that we've been talking about now for months that we've been without NBA basketball is about what sports coming back into the country, and obviously there's a very very important and very difficult things that are going on in the country right now. Certainly like our show here. We're not trying to take away attention from any of that, but sometimes you need that little bit of distraction, right? That's that's kind of what we're all about right now when we talk about about. About. Sports knowing that there are things that are happening that are way more important than than us and and basketball, and what we're doing but when you look at the sports landscape, I'm so happy to see what the NBA did. Because a few weeks ago, we were in a spot where the NBA had nothing concrete. We had no idea when they were coming back and Adam Silver was deflecting deflected what she should have, but he was deflecting like crazy and MLB seemed like they were gaining traction and mls was gaining traction and my thought was. It's GonNa. Look really bad if baseball says they're back. MLS says they're back. The NHL comes back and the NBA still can't get things figured out and seeing the reaction to Major League baseball right now. WHO still can't figure out there? Their stuff can't get things together whereas the NBA gets to get this big boost of hey, we're back. MLS is back also. Today obviously overshadowed a little bit by NBA. Seeing the position baseball is in right now I'm so glad that Adam silver and the NBA were able to put this together. Yeah. Absolutely I think it makes the most sense for. The NBA I think it is. They've done a great job of compromising where it needs to be compromised. They have worked together very much. Would the players I think this just goes to show when you have a good working relationship with your players in your players association. How important that is! You Know Major League Baseball I tweeted today. See in two thousand twenty one, because this is a mess and and I think I even said maybe because it's just a disaster, the things that they keep trying it's it's. We're just GONNA antagonize each other. Even more you know on this. So I think it's GonNa, be really I'm. Curious to see ultimately how this all comes down and comes together. It's going to be jail. It's B O for these other sports. Now you know, I think. I think baseball is going to be left out in the cold quite frankly I. think we're going to get the NBA in the NHL back here soon. MLS is closing in on a deal with Disney as well and their plans are starting to come together. Football's just kind of moving forward. Yeah. They're going to have eighty thousand people in the stands. If they can you know opening kickoff weekend? You know, but it's a nice say that facetiously I don't think they really are. You know, but I think it is. You're going to be really really interesting Um. Would that? I think it's going to be you know is. A very very interesting. To see how this looks as it comes together in a global sports landscape, because I think Major League baseball, there's been this sense that they're falling behind anyway and I think they are going to really really fall behind from there, so so I think that is you know what it? Is. That's sad for them, but you know Kudos to the NBA I. Don't Know Enough about the NHL Soda owner who speak on it a meal with the NBA clear. You know a lot about Kudos to them for coming together in the right way. They got all the right people involved. Are there pitfalls in this in all chances for things to go bad, but. I am really curious since he went. That looks like yeah, you know. What like okay, so for NHL. What I believe is going on, and this is again. I don't follow it very closely at all, but. But they they're doing an expanded plow they. They're going straight into the playoffs. They expanded the number of teams that actually make the playoffs, but bottom line. They came to an agreement right. They came up with something and my concern. Was that all these other leagues we're going to be. Onboard and they were going to go, and then by contrast. The NBA was going to be that the league that wasn't there yet and didn't have things figured out yet and. It's been a pleasant surprise that they have put things together, and they have figured out a plan, and we're seeing the danger of it with. I mean what a completely blown opportunity here by baseball, they could have been back and they could have been that sport that was leading the way and been getting that kind of been providing that morale boost for the country. That's that sports can provide, and instead they're squabbling and fighting, and like you said it's going to drop them down. I could have won over. Maybe it's not a ton, but they could have won over new fans if they were the first sport back on, and it said. Absolute Yeah, whoever came back? I mean do watch Bundesliga soccer. Because I have a great friend who you know. He's never watched a NASCAR race in his life, and he's all over those right now, so yeah, I mean don't really get is just a really nonsense that you know they. They are not taking advantage of this and making this work. AL, it's really really you know annoying, and it's just you know it's GonNa be interesting to see how that ultimately comes together, but but again big picture here it's firms of our show and everything full credit to the for the to the NBA for pulling off at Disney for making it happen and Keith for everybody following your plan right. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly it man, it's. All credit to me on this one. No, it's not the case at all. I'm just you know if by any sense, I was any small part in this I'm super super. Happy on that note. Do want throw one last thing out there. This is just an idea that bounce in my head last night as a gopher goes wrapping up and get ready to shut down for the evening. Was We saw? saw the Bundesliga to bring them back up again they pay. Fans could pay to bring in some revenue for those clubs to have their face. Put on a cardboard cutout. In the now that was put in the stance in there that obviously you have to have very advanced screening process to make sure no nonsense gets in there. It sounds a guy that was tried down in Australian Rugby League in A. Very offensive faces got through on that, so you got to really be careful the way you do this, but my job was. There's not going to be a lot of fans in the crowd. Anyway, you know maybe families get in there at some point. Maybe the players aren't playing or they're. To some level, but my thought was, you could sell these cardboard cutouts with a face on it. I don't know what price point you said on it, but make really really expensive, so the rich people are doing this because they want to be seen there at these games, even as a cardboard cutout, and then you donate all of the money that you made to that to proceed to all the proceeds from that two different black lives matter charities around the country. You know work with a couple to really you know some things up and I think could be. In the NBA, due to a lot of good for the community, so that idea was just kind of floating around in my head is another way you could? Get a lot of get out of this. NBA Disney. That's a fantastic idea. I love that I would like to see some I i. Pity, whoever would have to screen all the faces and making sure there wasn't anything inappropriate, but otherwise I mean that's that's a fantastic idea. Great way for the NBA to send a positive message. You did mention there could be some family. In the stands and things like that, and that that sparked my my memory on something else here the NBA from what we understand just to tie things up is is not going to allow families in until after all those bubble team, so to speak, are they're all bubble teams now? After the those fringe playoff teams I should say are are removed, and so when you've got as you've got, know the wizards, and the the sons, and whoever right gets eliminated once they move out then you're moving family members, and so your total number of people probably doesn't change all that much. Obviously New People coming in there's you know you've got some risks there and everything but I think that's a really good way to mitigate the risk while still giving players an opportunity. Opportunity to spend time with their families. They can say look. You know you're going to be away from your family, but it's only gonNA. Be this short period because soon as these other teams leave, then they're coming in instead of hey, if you go all the way to the championship, you're going to be here three months and Nazi. Your family ramones your three months without any access to your family. Is You know that's not even what they ask them at the Olympics, right? Now didn't even then. The families usually go with them to some degree onto the Olympics, so yeah i. that sounds like out is the plan. Is You know is a day? Pare down the field a little bit. Families can come in Samolis. would-be part of the quote unquote bubble whatever that means now that seems to be kind of ever evolving, and then those families would be allowed to attend those games, which gives them some semblance of a crowd there, and there's a big belief in the NBA. You know when you win a championship. You want to be there with the people who mean the most to you and celebrate that with them, and we were there, and you'll for a change island. Somebody saying it and you know I'm I'm going to Disneyworld I'm leaving Disney. Gets. Could could be the way that one goes down after three months area. You know somebody who spent. Day In day out there for nearly twenty years it's. Three months every single day. That's even a lot of Disney for me. You just want an NBA championship. What are you GonNa do next I'm going home. I'm going home. I'm going home because I to rest for week before next season for the next. That's right. It is going to be a quick turnaround. We did see what draft lottery is going to be was September. I'm blanking. I still hearing a lot of things to be answering with the draft draft lottery withdrawal dates for early entry candidates is also to be determined the team still WANNA do a pre draft process where they get an opportunity to at least do the medical checks on these players on those are such a huge part of the process. Yeah, it's GonNa be a little bit for them to work through all that and get it all together, but you know that that stuff I think everything has been. Let's focus on how we hit this season back. What is the format? And then we go from there bottom line most important the NBA is back. Got It. Feels so good to say. Yeah, that's right. He with a WHO on his hand, ready to throw down. Disney you know that's GonNa, be where it's all out and super excited. I cannot wait. You know this is. Date you know I don't want to distract from any much more important things that are happening in our country right now. You and I both tweeted about that and express our support for the folks are out there, trying to protest and in get the right thing for for the black community. We want to make sure that they are heard in the day day are In in all those things there but I found. That doesn't take away from my excitement that the is coming back and I. Think a lot of the good that it can do to help you know. Give us some people who may need it a very necessary distraction from you'll lot of the things that have been going on in the in the country, since really for some people all the way back to January, February, and definitely since March absolutely absolutely perfectly said. Okay so I think that's a good spot to end on. Don't forget guys. Make sure you do rate review and subscribe to our show. We love reading all of your comments over on Apple podcasts. Give us that that five star rating. If you wouldn't mind, we certainly appreciate it helps us grow our shows. If you like what you've been been listening to and watching, we would appreciate that and again if you're watching us on the Lakers. Nation Youtube Channel Make sure you do. Subscribe here and don't forget to ring that notification. Bell can follow Keith at on twitter at Keith Smith NBA. You can follow me at Trevor. Underscore Lane and on instagram at Trevor Lane and be a key? They grew out of here. Let's do. The turn up because I think we're gonNA, have a busy summer common for us yet. Next week will break down all the all the other news that comes out board of Governors meeting is is tomorrow, so we're going to hear I'm sure. Some other things are going to come out from that so next week we'll be back to break down everything else. There's going to be a ton more news coming out lots to do as we get ready for the NBA to return I'm so excited can't wait. Thank you everybody for watching and listening till next time. See You.

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Episode 161: Reach-Around Knowledge and Bottom Performers (The Dunning-Kruger Effect)

Very Bad Wizards

1:25:00 hr | 1 year ago

Episode 161: Reach-Around Knowledge and Bottom Performers (The Dunning-Kruger Effect)

"Very bad. Wizards is a podcast with the Lhasa for my dad and psychologist. Dave Pizarro having an informal discussion about issues and signs and ethics. Please note that the discussion contains bad words that I'm allowed to say and knowing my dad, some very inappropriate jokes. Old withered? Wizard is losses faith in magic. That's ironic. Ironic and sad. Man plan. Raines than you. Very very good, man. Just say bad wisit? Welcome to very bad. Wizards I'm Tamla summers from the university of Houston. Dave. I like big boobs, and I cannot lie does that mean. I'm poor. It might make you pour might actually depending on where you go in Vegas that can lead to survive. You're you've got the causal direction. A thing. I know we have the science to tell us we have this is I'm David Erb bizarre from Cornell University, and I am I'm okay with any size breasts. I love I love them. All. I like big man boobs. Like, I like it when when like a good friend of mine has gotten so heavy that they have tits. They can be your wingman. A good man should have tests. We. Yeah, we have science. We're gonna talk about it. We're gonna talk about it. So on today's episode. We're going to talk about the dunning Kruger effect in the second segment. What it is some pay. What the research is that supports it. Really gonna pick up on this. I realize. Krueger effect is the the increasingly popular documented effect that people who know less about something are more confident that they know about that thing. The more expert, you are the more less confidence. You have in your knowledge, the less, they know the more. They know it. That's why we exude confidence. I'm going to be a specially kind of slow today. Just because I'm very hung over. Oh, yeah. You did. You did a public event. Hi did. It was philosophically drinking. Rogers pub in Houston, and but it was fun. It was good. It was good there. Few couple of VW listeners at least four or five that came out and. Remember when all we wanted was four or five listeners. And if we're not careful to tonight, we might be headed back there for five. Let's talk about this paper. We're gonna talk about in the first segment, which is it's unbelievable. It is a it's just describe it say, it's really a believable. So this is I don't remember how I came across on Twitter. But you know, we we mentioned that. Neuro skeptic was failing I found this somewhere else. But it's definitely the kind of paper that you are tweet out it's called resource security impacts men's female breasts size preferences by Virin Swamy and Martin Toby. And this was published in Pilo S one. It's the open access journal and good journal. You know, it's it's a funny one. So so pillow us one I think has had a reputation of being a not good journal in the eyes of any people, but it actually publishes really like sometimes really good stuff. But people usually work their way down there. And sometimes the just trash this. I don't want to shit on it. Because in fact, like there have been really good papers in it. But it is it is considered an easier journal to publish it. But it is open access, which is a good thing. And it is peer reviewed. So it's not just it's not a scam journal, right? It's not like a. It's not like one of those that you get. So this is so this was just I couldn't believe it like kick. I get to the to the to the heart of it. The argument is that. Because as we all know breasts size in in human women is an indicator of a fat reserves. This intern might indicate that that woman has access to resources, and so they conducted these two guys conducted a test of this hypothesis to one was a study from men in Malaysia from three different cities that variance socio-economic status. So here they're thinking was men who are from lower s groups poor men in Malaysia that they would prefer women with larger breasts because this was an indicator of like, hey, there's there's like good shipping environment, whereas men from higher socioeconomic status would prefer smaller breasts. The second one is the killer, though, this was like, well, let's not do a correlation study we want to test this directly. So they. They got guys they got guys who are either coming out of of a cafeteria or going into cafeteria. They selected them for being either hungry or say, she ate it. And they asked them to rate what their preference for women's body shape would be and they use this three D modelling of like that you could you rotate, and what they found was that hung hungry men like bigger boobs because after all your hungry. You're looking for resources. I can't even talking about this. The me just I know I always say something along these lines. But is this real like this isn't a hoax, or at least this is a real journal. This isn't a parody that temblor. This thing led me down at rabbit hole. So I looked up the first author because I was like this could be like a like, a reverse, gene. Lindsay like somebody trying to like mock. Recyc- and this guy there in Swami, no knock on you. I don't know who he is like entries. Nice guy has a shit ton of publications. There is apparently a just cottage industry of boob size research. And this is at the forefront at the forefront of it because it is a pressing the present question Tamla. It's a way better cottage industry than like trolley problem. Probably. But like there's a ton like let me let me so there's one. Called perception of female buttocks and breasts size in profile from two thousand seven some earlier earlier work of his so this is actually what he does not all of his papers are like this. He does he does some work on why people believe conspiracy theories, but this is one from two thousand seven in a journal body image a lot of these are just journals have never heard of unattractive promiscuous and heavy drinkers. Colon perceptions of women with tattoos. So so this guy is just maybe somebody who is not allowed to watch porn at home. And so has developed a whole research program about maybe we don't the nice thing is we don't even need to add Hominum. Like, what's the logic here? Yeah. We should state it. The idea is that if you are poor. We would have evolved trait trade a disposition to look for women with high access to resources. Big breasts signal high access to resources, so people who are less economically secure will will be more attracted to those women because of the signaling of high access to resource. Yeah. But okay. So let's say a little bit about this. So there is a weird. There's a weird thing going on with the fixation on the female anatomy. Because if it is the case that body fat indicates the presence of rich resources, then people poor people should like that dude's and hungry people should love that dude's to write like that is a better indicator that there are good resources, which leads me to my other thing breasts size doesn't just change like that. What like when you like it's not it's not the people who eat a lot, just huge boobs. I know. People like there are plenty of people who probably like wish that were the case because there's a few things that you were saying that you sort of ran together. The first is the fixation on female says male. Nobody's trying to know. Where's the experiment about guys Johnson's? Yeah. There's a there's there's just so much work on on. On what men? Find attractive in women sexist men prefer big breasts apparently men who want to submissive partner prefer small breasts, but men who are independent and non nurturance prefer large breasts, which was by the way, a study done in nineteen sixty eight that that I actually tracked down in. It is ridiculous like a camping trip. Rabbit hole men financially stable prefer small breasts men ready for fatherhood prefer largest so a ton of this work has been done. And it's hilarious read about the methodology because apparently very concerned that early research only used pencil lion drawings, which were logically valid. So they wanted to use real three d models that fixes the that that that fixes it. Then. Yes. I have a couple just, you know, as not a visionary biologist could there possibly be a set of genes that were triggered to like if you sense that you're poor to make woop women with bigger breasts more attractive and women smaller breasts less attractive and vice versa. If like what how is this? There's like I'm not. There's Sherri biologists. So it should say with a grain of salt. But to like, I don't think there is any plausible account for that especially positive biological mechanism for this. I mean, there's a lot of work on on what poverty might do, psychologically. But so like, we know that for instance, it can affect the stress of being poor and being in an environment where you're scraping together. Anything like whatever you can to live like that stress affects all sorts of things. I just don't think that there's somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but in order for this to be true there has to be a mechanism that is trying to track resources in the environment by looking at somebody else's body. And that has to be a fairly reliable signal that there are resources in the environment. But the problem is they don't even really flesh this out. But. Breath size is is variable. Right. So so it's not as if when you when hunter gatherers moved to that area of the savannah that had lots of game way. What you would have to have what they're arguing is that this that breast size is a reliable indicator of the resources at environment. Right. So if you were like, a hunter gatherer, and you're walking around you see a woman with big boobs. You follow her back like you're supposed to find much? Like, there's lots of supposed to be a lot more food like around the poor, you know, but they're saying poverty, they're saying that it is that the reason like poverty is a proxy here. Because remember they're also doing the thing with hungry, and and and not hungry men of the same socioeconomic status. So main thing is whether you're hungry or not and socioeconomic status is a proxy for determining hunger. So both socioeconomic status. And hunger are ways to measure people who are resource lacking in resources. Okay. Right. So those are two different ways of attacking this this same. So then you see someone with big breasts, and there's this these biological mechanisms that says be attracted to her because then you can follow her and get you want to. Starving. You hurting you hurting for some for some resources follow the big boobed girl, and and, you know, marry her or whatever it's like the pimp, gene. Which is not say, by the way, that breast the breasts the presence of breasts aren't here for a selected reason. But but the variability in breasts in breath is that like I'm sorry. I just just can't be true. It is though could be true. But it's so many alternate explanations. Bring to mind, and they do address that and some of the funniest quotes come from addressing that by God, limitations. The this is the thing that people always ridicule evolutionary psychology for your positing, the presence of something that nobody has remotely provided any sort of biological account of how this could possibly be true. You know, this is the one thing I've learned I have very very good colleagues in my department who are you know, they study the the physiological mechanisms in animals, and like, you know, have a colleague who studies brain size accrue. Rossall species over evolutionary history. There are like hardcore. And they have one thing that they've taught me is that you can't you shouldn't say shit about about of Lucian biology, unless you really have learned it because this is the this is the concert critique of of crappy psychology that they're just making up a story to explain this shit. Just so stories. Yeah. Just the stories that that have the the whiff of science but seriously like like just to take it on. It's like, let's just assume that this is a plausible hypothesis. Wouldn't you expect that? That obese people would be more attractive across the board if your resource resource starved that is something that really does fluctuate in a reliable way based on how much access if what you have. Then those no because being skinny is like a handicap and that Cigna, that's. I know they have a real story for pretty much any kind of eventuality right hand. It's not that some of these things aren't true. It's just that. So many of them are just post hoc, and you just have and like that, you know, they they say like, well, this this isn't the only reason and obviously their socio cultural factors, even those. Now that I'm thinking of it did you ever see the kind of famous black jeopardy with Tom Hanks? Black jeopardy on Saturday Night Live. Yeah, I'm trying to remember. I don't. Kind of brilliant skit the premise of it was that the Tom Hanks is this blue collar lower class guy, and he goes on black jeopardy and up till they get to the lives matter question. They agree on pretty much everything. Okay. Let's go to bed girls for two hundred. Okay. Half their skinny women can do this for you. What is not a noun? She's a sturdy go. Right. Well, maybe like maybe that that like that's a new hypothesis for you too. I think that it's a more plausible hypothesis that ask size would be correlated with with this. Then then boobs is. I just I mean Bupe size fluctuates through the lifespan. Like once you hit puberty, and it's not, you know, it is interesting that women are the only female, humans are the only are the only mammals that have permanent boobs like all the other animals. Actually, you know, they get them when they're when they have when they're nursing and then disappear. And so I think there's a lot of you could speculate a lot about why I just can't get to this. This is just like, okay. Let's let's read some quotes. When when the two others are talking about the good, scientists limitations one of things. Third. Our focus on breast size comes at the expense of other breast related variables that may have impacted upon participants ratings such as symmetry shape and areola size. Because after all they only showed a woman in a bikini that's conflict right there. Right. It's just the it wasn't manipulated. So we don't know and further further research can I read one of like, I mean, I have so many that it's like that. Of course, this is not to suggest that pose tissue. Resorts are the only thing indicated by larger breast size. If this were the case, then larger breasts is should be no more important than fat stored in any part of a woman's body. Rather breasts is may act as a cue of. Nope. Parody aid sexual maturity infertility. And Furthermore, there may be other more important cus- cus- of fat storage compared to the breasts such as overall body size. It's just the dresses your objection. This may help to explain the small to moderate the small small tomato at effect sizes uncovered in both stutters report. That that right there. Oh my God. We're stumped by the by. But by the small to moderate effect sizes like this should be almost unanimous. But like I love how they set the stage for like, you know. Hey, look, if you want to argue with us this further research, we need to do more. We even like body ING themselves like when in the in the limitations because they're coming up with like, plausible alternative explanations. That I hadn't even thought of like totally like like it is possible that figures with larger breast is perceived as heavy overall sodas possible that our findings were driven by body size preferences in general rather than breast size per se, and it's well, why don't you fucking like do one more little manipulation of like five size? So that you can have some discriminate validity to your actual tests of this hypothesis. So here's another one nor do our findings deny a role for socio, cultural factors and shaping breath size, judgments, it has been argued, for example, that breasts are one of the most imp-. Portent sites of objectification of the female body in socio economically developed setting and media targeted at some men appear to fetish is large breasts media targeted at some men appear appear. Can't we can't we can't totally you know, we can't stand on this. But I'm just saying like it it appears to fetish. Every as an aside. This should not be used to suggest that the importance of breasts varies across cultures and that our methodology artificially inflates the importance of breast size earlier ethnographic research, indicates that breasts are erotic is in many, different culture. This is just. So so here's here's a plausible alternative hypothesis that that to me equally plausible if if their reasoning is right and people from traditionally impoverished, societies prefer women with large boobs then. Overtime sexual selection should mean that they actually get larger boobs the breast size grows over time. And then and perhaps at the expense like a Peacock's tail like at the expense of other Reese like distribution of whatever fat in the body or any other indicator of fitness. And so and so over time you should you should see that in poorer cultures. As a long as they've been poor. For awhile women have big boobs, right? I don't then if so then breast size would no longer be a reliable indicator of how rich the environment was. Like an April Horia object. This isn't a priori of chicken. I really do want to know if there's any good of luminary psychology on on. Dick aesthetics. Yeah. I predict that a upward curve to have been selected because it gave women more pleasure. This mickey. More likely, they would tell their friends to fuck you. You know, but what throws a wrench and all of this is the hell, lesbian, women and gay men are thwarting our listener policies by selecting. What are they doing? How are they even picking? What is what is there to say who you should be attracted to a very fast? It's like, I just don't know. I'm just parallel. There's nothing more. Actually this dude. Actually, this dude actually did publish something on ratings of attractiveness for women of different body mass index indices into industry, he surveyed, lesbian feminists. This just goes the mind state of this research, he got feminist and non-feminist women by I don't know. What measure do they like Christina off summer? Only if they like facts. And and he like he he wanted to test whether or not there would be I don't know what the pipe was some interaction between feminism and sexuality, but he asked all of the women. What bodies they find attractive? The only finding that was there was that lesbian women report that and it's not even who your tractor to find attractive that lesbian women. Choose a body type. It's higher body mass index than straight win which. Again. I don't know. Like, what this is that kind of studied that needs to be Preregister. I haven't talked about any of the data. But it's, you know, it's a very very simple statistical test and the numbers they report like if if they're if they're right numbers like they they do show a significant difference. But but they could have spliced the data in different ways. This is exactly the kind of thing though, it'd be suspicious that they they they selected only people who are on two of the scale hungry and not hungry. Not people kind of in the middle. They they split up the ratings into five categories of breast size. There's a lot of ways in which you could hack the data in order to find something significant. But at the end in spite of all the limitations they highlight they say these limits -tations notwithstanding the presence. That's a results provides ample evidence that breast size may play may play a role in men's assessment of female access to resources all. Never tested that. Right. God they never tested that. It's it's purely that they prefer them. So they and they assume they prefer women with access to resources if they're poor all things being will men from relatively low socio economic context and who experience temporary hunger rate women with larger sizes more attractive than men from high socioeconomic context or are experiencing CC say city. Sitadi? I was actually wondering I think it's a tidy. I if you read that if you read that sentence, and maybe this could be something like future gimmick future. VW gimmick li- like real evolutionary psychology or fake evolution ecology. You know, like, and then the person had to judge whether they thought it was real or whether it's something that we've made up like if I read that would you say fake or real I would've said fake, I I would have to. I mean there is there. You know, they're bordering on some of that real peer review. I wish real peer review would not just nudge. Just like fuck with the post modernists, they would actually put some of this shit up there. Because like they cite a bunch of this stuff. People look at IT tracking of men looking at women. And there is something. Like, look, I'm not going to say that this person or these researchers. Sexist. But like, I I'm pretty sure that there's something fucked up about the this being the obvious research question to ask like, we got this amazing device that allows you to see xactly where human beings are looking of get up on the screen. So I don't always agree with my stepmother. But here I now think metoo has gone too, far if you could attribute sexism to people who are purely invested in scientific enterprise just. I was writing. I I was ready to jump on your about the patriots. I challenge anybody to read just the reference titles of this paper and not tell me that this is this is incredibly incredibly weird. I feel like we didn't do it. Justice and apologize. But really if all we do is give you the link to this. We have done you a great service. It is high comedy comet comic masterpiece actually this whole pace. And I have to say this are like I would like to hear from our our women listeners. You know, they talk about the male gaze, not homosexuals. But like. As the look male. I I I can't help. But think that at the conferences when they talk about this stuff? Not many. I would just it. Just feels weird man. If there were a group of women talking about how the bulge in your in your pants. It was a good, fitness indicator. I would feel really weird walking into a crowd of people who study that. And I'm like my life is good. I don't have anything to worry about like, I was still be site. Hey, ladies, check out the bulge. I access to resources. All right. We were going to do guilty. Confession of maybe this is gone on. We should table that table. It. I wasn't happy with mine. Anyway. Too terribly guilty about. But I did wanna get cleanse. Like, you people believe like, you just say, oh, I did this you say a couple of hail Marys and you're good like, I'm not Catholic. But also didn't read the bible last time. Who knows if we go into the ground like animals, right? Well, this was probably not as edifying as our discussion of Ecclesiastes these. But we'll be right back to talk about the dunning Kruger effect. Welcome back to very bad. Wizards. This is the time where we liked to take a moment to thank all the people who get in touch with us who Email us who contact us in all the various ways that you do. We got a bunch of really nice feedback about the Ecclesiastes these episode that do I know it's it's it was really gratifying because I don't think either of us went into it with any high expectations. It's not like we were talking about the intellectual dark web or something. You know, maybe it's a lesson that if talk about things that we actually like intrinsically like you're actually make better. No. I mean, I think that's right. You know, like, the episodes are like that some of the movie episodes are like that for me where you know, we go into something with that kind of naive excitement that exactly is as opposed to. And we trash an article like we last segment. So yes to get in touch with us. You can Email us very bad wizards at g mail dot com. You can tweet us at Tamla at Pease at very bad. Wizards you can like us on Facebook. You can join the discussion on our sub ret. You can like us follow us. Fuck follow us on Instagram, and you can rate us on I tunes. 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It was really nice to see some listeners that philosophically drinking at Reggie pub that that event that I did a couple days ago. And that was I don't know how the first segment went last night because just so exhausted and hung over from the previous. I just thought you were drunk and high. I mean, I was Harry, those aren't mutually exclusive. Lose. I just made quick mention of being freakonomics last time. And I wanted to say we we recorded this freakonomics live episode that just got released as as we're recording. And this was in New York City, and it was in front of a live audience. And there were no very bad whistled very bad with listeners. Nobody came up to me. I know you from your other. That's why we should do a live episode in Houston rather yard. We're gonna be in together. Right. One of the rare times that we're together we're going to be in Vancouver for the American philosophical association. Meetings in Vancouver British Columbia, and we're making no promises. But if you are a very bad wizards listener, and you will be in town. And you think meet up might be fun. Just tweet to us at the very about religious account were at at our personal accounts end. And if there's enough interest, maybe we'll go grab a beer with. Not the weird ones. Don't be weird. Could be a little weird. Everyone's a little weird. So yeah, that'd be fun. We may do that will be there from a, bro. I'm going to be there from the sixteenth to the twentieth. Sixteen. Yeah. Okay. Let's so thanks everybody. And let's get to our main topic. So our main topic today is a topic. I don't think we've discussed in like weirdly, some of these social psychology effects that that are supposed to be part of my job. I rarely talk about but this is the dunning Kruger effect. It is a phenomenon named after two researchers who were at Cornell University, and it's basically an effect that let me see if I do it Justice explaining the gist of it people who don't know very much about any given domain tend to think they know a lot more than they do. So being ignorant about a domain leads to. Self enhancement of the very biased variety and at the same time. And we'll explain why if you're at the top of your domain, if you're like an expert in your field, or in your area of knowledge or whatever bid performance, you're good at you tend to underestimate your performance relative to other people. So so you have this this weird effect? It's it's often referred to as unskilled and unaware from the very first article they published back in the late nineties ninety nine which by the way aside. They original paper was published by grad student named Justin Kruger and has been the professor named David dunning. And it was Krueger and dunning. And for some reason it is called the dunning Kruger. Which is gesturing on grad students and dunning whenever he talks about. It is always sort of jokes about like, I don't know how this happened. But let me just tell you a lot of the grad students that Cornell used to go onto the we compete and actually change it to the Kruger dunning effect. And it would miraculously get changed to an that's capitalism. Right. The exploitation. That's right. So pyramid scheme is people have often referred, but the reason I so the reason at least one of the reasons that I thought it might be interesting talk about is for some reason in the last few years a lot of people talk about this like in popular press. I always hear people referring to the dunning Kruger effect. And it's like, it's a very very weird that it'd be like, it'd be like the media all of a sudden talking about get your cases, his socialist like finding social psychology. It was, you know, fairly just sort of like just about our our little section of the field and. And now, it's a very very popular way to to explain I mean, so let me ask you this does its recent popularity coincide with Trump election with just the general dumbing down of political debate over the last couple few years because of social media because of Twitter because of. That's a good question. I wish I had done a little bit of research until like the the how much the phrase is used. I feel like I started hearing it maybe like four or five years ago. But I'm sure that it's gotten even more cited because of that a very smug way of it's like actually pretty smug way of accusing people of being done. Right. Exactly. Like, I mean, I think you always liberals accusing conservatives of it or using them as an example. And I think part of the sort of the sinister aspect of the effect is you think it applies to other people, but not us. Where it really applies to all of us. So just to get a sense of how what the boundaries of this affect our? I take it that if I know nothing about a field. Like if you ask me about. Some organic chemistry or something like that. I'm not going to overestimate my abilities about that. So you can't be totally ignorant. That's right. And in fact, the the. I think that's one of the. The the crucial sort of features of this bias is that it's knowing a little bit that seems to get the effect going students who take like one biology class. Feel like they know a ton about of Lucien rent way, more than people. And I remember this myself. I remember I remember literally feeling after I took intro psych like, wow, man. I just know every about college like I don't know where to go from here. Now, it's like the most cringe-worthy memory. I have was after taking economics macroeconomics or. Yeah. I think it was macroeconomics or micro. I don't know. I don't even remember I went back like ones business break. I was fricken freshman, and I was lecturing people about like economic is. It was just it's so embarrassing. How you know? I think that is this is something you see in college students because they take a class students. Do this all the time. They'll raise their hand. And they'll start like informing me about. Psychological effect. Intro psych. And and you know. I I have actually so you're right. It's cringe-worthy. And I know that these students in retrospect might feel the same thing that I feel now, but I had a student come in. I was teaching a seminar and social psychology, and I had a student whom I love actually, but she started telling me about my own chip entire study. Like when I was lecturing on trolley problems smiling just waiting just waiting for her to finish the nation. There's some sort of sweet spot of a little bit of knowledge where you start to vastly overestimate abilities. Yeah, I don't I don't know what the the critical dosage is I just know that it's that it's knowing a bit that leads it's not being completed Terance. And then how much of an expert? Do you have to be where the affects reverses? So usually this is this is. Talked about in in percentiles. So it what what portion of the distribution. Are you so sore you at the top are you at the top core tile of the distribution? I don't know that we have precision about like where it starts coming out. But I believe that it is that the studies at least that I'm familiar with look at people who are at the bottom twenty five percent and the top twenty five percent percentile of the distribution and show this affect their let me maybe distinguish this from a more general effect that has been found over and over again psychology, at least in the psychology of of non eastern peoples like western folks, which is the above average effect, which probably most people are familiar with that that most people think they're better at. Host of like positive traits. Sometimes called the lake will be on affect. But the idea is that if you have people my favorite example of this is L forget, the percentage is. But if you ask professors, how how they stand compared to all other university professors in terms of like say clarity of their lectures or the quality of their lectures. It's it's like it's like most professors rate that they're in the ninetieth percentile. Which is basically impossible most people can't be better than most people. Right. Right. So so so that's just overestimating your ability in general in general and on positive traits all age, necessarily, not found in a whole bunch of stuff. It's found in skills like driving like most people think they're better drivers than others. Most people think they're more moral better better sense of humor. Let less biased Hewlett to this. Most people think they're less biased than than other people. That's to be a robust and general effect where people just kind of inflight they're standing on most positive things, you can get rid of this by well, you can show that this gets lower and lower depending on how you ask the questions. So if I ask a student say Cornell, how smart are you compared to the average person you'll get a fairly big like effect? But in fact, they might be smart in the person. But. Or paid like a track coach? Their track star. The there. If you ask people, how smart are you compared to the average Cornell student then you start getting a bit lower. But that's just not as now students are smarter on the population. That makes so there's that that there's a rational explanation, but here's where it starts getting interesting. If you ask people how smart they are compared to the average student at the university. And it goes down a bit. If you ask them, how smart they are compared to the random person sitting next to them. It goes down even more. So it's not just that they're sort of rationally adjusting its that. There's something about the concrete comparison, there's something about the abstract level of comparison that when you think about an average person or an average Cornell student that lets you create sort of in this self in the self enhancing way, you create somebody who's not as good as you and your head, and it's harder to do when that person is right now when you're thinking about an actual actual person. And so what am I favor findings is is also from David Dunin, you can show that people use idiosyncratic trait definitions. So if I ask people, how smart are you? And what you get is that a bunch of people report that they're smarter than average. What you find is that people are using very different definitions of what smart means so some people might say like, well, I'm just. Beat smart, right? I'm I'm savvy like, I'm not a sucker. Maybe I'm not bookmark. But so they use that definition in order to to self enhance. Whereas somebody else like us might be like, well, I'm books books mart. That's that's what I that's. What smart really means? I'm street smart. Yeah. I'm sure you are from your from south. And. So if you give people a definition like if you define what you mean. Like how intelligent are you in by intelligence? We mean this then the effect seems to go down so people it seems to be like when you give people a little bit of flexibility, they find a way for the self enhancement to creep in. But you are distinguishing this from dunning Kruger this this seems to be like maybe part of it. The motivated part to seem like you're better or to really believe that you're better than other people seems to be kind of at the heart of the dunning Kruger effect is just that in the done in Kruger effect. What's going on? Is this additional thing? I believe which is that a little bit of knowledge is now really really doing doing a like work on the self enhancement. And so what dunning Kruger saying is. It's the ignorance, so like say you, and I after taking our intro courses. Yeah. The claim the central claim is because we have no idea what we don't know. Like all of the other things that there are like our denominator is off. Right. Like, I felt like I knew, you know, ninety eight out of one hundred things to know in psychology. What I didn't realize I knew ninety eight out of ten thousand four hundred. And it's that numerator speaking metaphorically that's driving my sense of how smart I am. That makes sense. Yeah. And if you know that your numerator zero than you won't exactly right. And so what seems to be happening with the people at the top and of the distribution is something different. So, and I think that we make this mistake all the times when. Or at least I do in lecture when I say when I start talking about the trolley problem, for instance, I feel like like, I'm just telling them something they already know. I don't need to explain what this is. Right. Everybody knows the trolley problem. And so I'll say like raise your hand if you've heard of the trolley problem and barely any of the kids raised their hand. Yeah. So and I've just been noticing this too. When you know, like, I all sorts of things, I've mentioned tenure like they would definitely know tenure was and most of them had no idea what ten year was. Saying that they don't know the details where lives. They don't even they won't even know that I'm up for full professor this. You know, this is shameful. But, but we've we've talked about this before when we're when we're at a conference, and we're talking to our colleagues and somebody mentioned our podcast and someone says, oh, you have a podcast. Fuck you. You knew that. Everybody knows that. I know I get like inner like fuck you. So so that's also really modest and humble. Oh, yeah. I would never actually let them know. So this nominee actually that thinking that other people know the same things that you know, or or have the same attitudes that you have is called the false. Consensus affect in some psychology. It's sort of inflating how similar people are to you. And that's what seems to be going on. With experts day seem to think that people must know a lot more than they actually do because of false consensus. So they're not self in housing, and they're not self effacing either. So I think one of the one of the findings illustrates this is that if you. If you get an expert say like. Ask me about Star Trek trivia, right? And I actually think people know a lot about Star Trek a lot more than they actually do. So if you ask me, how sm- how much do I know about Star Trek and make me rank it in terms of percentile like compared to the population. I get it wrong. So I actually undershoot how how much about Star Trek because I think most people know some some about Star Trek if on the other hand, you asked me if you say, hey, I'm gonna ask you thirty questions thirty trivia questions about Star Trek. How many do you think you'll get right there actually, well calibrated like there, and that's something that doesn't happen at the at the levels of ignorance, the the people on the low end the people who are overestimating their knowledge, they overestimated, both the raw amount like and the percentile and people at the top end they're pretty good at knowing. What they don't know. So this all boils down to what I think the interesting part is is that we just it's the Rumsfeld's, unknown unknown. Right. We have no idea how much we don't know about something. Right. And. Yeah. And this is. This is an idea that traces back in western philosophy to Socrates where he was declared the wisest man in Athens. And he said it was because only he is aware of how much he doesn't know. It's funny because I used to think of that as just some sort of mock unity. Yeah. Well, he can come off as mock you Miltie sometimes and some of the dialogues. But I do think there it's from what I understand the historical Socrates really did have that attitude that that that the way in which he was wiser than all the other citizens was that they were all over confident that they knew about the world about moral knowledge about what a good life was about why it was important to have job or the political office that they did. And but it does often also come out as I sometimes false modesty. Right. Right. So there's this tough thing where you know, like one of the reasons that social psychologists study this so much. You know, I it was like well over-confidence is a problem. Right. Like, it'll lead you to make all sorts of errors. And so so it's it's a concern for that reason. And so a lot of people. You know, used to talk about well, they still do like, well, why do we have these overconfidence effects? Now, maybe that they're just cultural. Maybe that it's like camping is right. They all underestimate their. Yeah. Right. There's some I think research don't quote me on it that that shows that what what collectivists individuals do is they they don't self enhance group enhance maybe that there is still a general tendency to view at some level view things in a more positive light than they actually are that would make sense if you identify with the group. Yeah. That self enhancement property would apply to that. And not to you as well. Some people have argued that that over competence is actually a good thing because it one makes you happier. So there's this really depressing me sort of literature. On depressive realism that when you're depressed. You're actually seem to be more accurate about your skills and abilities. And so some people have argued that. Yeah. Like thinking that you're slightly better than you are actually good for you. The optimism is a greater irrational optimism leads to greater success in the long run. There was that affect I mean, we all I think I have been driven often by irrational confidence and undue optimism and. So it's all humility on my end. The most often tell. Feel like students in academe Lia. These days are airing on the other end. But maybe they're just being so pessimistic because that's the real state of affairs right now and the job market and grad school. Yeah. I mean, because it's kind of just never how I thought of things it just seems like that's a terrible way to live is to believe that stuff. Right, right. Get a healthy healthy dose of overconfidence. I don't know what the right answer is where I was going with this is like, it's hard to know. You know like is accuracy the goal, right? So I think the dunning Kruger effect is distressing. Because it's saying it's not just that everybody's mis calibrated bit. It's that the most ignorant people are the most miscalculated. And so it seems to be that like we should we should avoid as we should. We should either be just more humble about what it is that we know her maybe not even like, you know, don't don't ever just take one class something we're creating a bunch of like. Ideas, right is just stop filling your head with too much knowledge because unless you're really diving into something you're just not you're going to it's going to end up doing more harm than good in terms of your understanding of that field. So like, do you think are liberal arts education is creating a bunch of Jenin Kruger effects like because you take one class in our history. Take one class anthropology. Poss? So here's a con potential conflict. And I also think that this is something very characteristic of young people and something that's very characteristic of growing older. Is you start to realize just how much of the world, you don't know that you don't understand that's much more complicated than you. Once thought it was and now some sometimes that's because you just know more. But I also I don't know it doesn't feel like as you've grown older you start to see the complexity and things that you weren't able to see I'm of two months 'cause I can actually I can get the exact opposite intuition about about things to that. Like that. I. More willing to speak with authority about things than than I ever was before. Right. Like pontiff Kate. If you remember, actually. When I was in grad school. I remember talking to this person. I was working with who's actually working on some of this stuff above average, and we were talking about expertise, and I was telling him like, I don't think I'll ever feel like an expert in anything. Because it's so overwhelming to me. And he was like, what are you talking about like, you know, like, I know for fact that I know more about X than anybody like most people in the world like your expert in a lot of things like I wasn't being mocked Kumble was actually just expressing. So you probably were you were more modest maybe insecure about your failure for sure. Whereas I was just kind of insufferable I read this elfish, gene. And I thought I understood like the right way to understand biology, and you know, that that was my right? So so this gets to this other this other problem that I think arises from nuance, which is it makes us really boring. So. You and I have had this feeling. I don't know. Maybe I just remember the most recent time when you're telling me that I was hedging too much like the more expert. I become at something the more. I wanna like hedge even hedge my hedges every qualify, my qualifications. And and makes for like it makes for a real inability to communicate action. I mean, one of the reasons to be believed firmly in something is because it leads you to act if you don't believe anything, then like, why would you do anything? No, that's right, and someone who has edited some of your just endless sentences with constant qualification, you probably. Everything and you never get to what you never back up to the way. All the way that the actual view that you were going. I heard on the rationally speaking podcast. Julia. Golly. Alif had Sarah hater on and they were talking about this. And they were talking about the nuance is a real trade off because once you inject nuance into your dialogues with others, and even just in the way, you think about things it really does make you a less inclined to inspire action and passion and others and be harder to get yourself more motivated, and and it's a trade off that sometimes is a good trade off to make. But maybe sometimes it, right? And, you know, this is this really matters in the way that we communicate for instance, say science to the to the public, right? So one of the things that that I think are always getting annoyed is. When when somebody like, a journalist or whatever rights up something, and they speak with it as if it's as if it's just true. And we know all of the ways in which is not true. But it's something that that I've had to kind of disabuse myself of in. I remember one of the first times that I was on a live radio interview. I sucked it sucked. They didn't. Even like, I was talking like a professor and they were out of time. Like, I don't even get to the to the point. And I had to learn which I don't learn to this podcast because I know you're going to edit it. I had to learn how to say things in ten seconds. But I always think well, maybe it's just that the uncertainty that I have like about what I know about human psychology, for instance, is uncertainty that seems it seems like a he like huge variance like if you had error bars on my on, my views, or whatever like, it would seem huge the confidence interview intervals, but the truth is compared to everybody else like actually probably know things with a degree of certainty that I am failing to convey because Mike comparison is my peers what I'm giving a talk, and they're like did you control for this or whatever. And and it's a hard balance to strike because if you really want to get people to believe something, maybe this maybe this is why people still consistently find ways to. To misinterpret science. Yes, we're always hedging. Yeah. That's really interesting because it connects to that overestimate overestimation of how much other people know. And so that leads you to think that certain things need to qualify. Just because they'll already know the right? Yeah. And I I really struggled with that. With when I was doing interviews and podcasts for the honor book. Like, I just I don't think I ever figured out especially for the really shorter for the shorter pieces. Just how to convey something with confidence, you know, on a on a topic that I felt I'm Vivian int- about to some degree. Yeah. And I honestly like I I have to really. Try to get better at that. If I did another one of those things. Yeah. We've talked about this a bit about how you know, one of the things I like about your book was that you you were nuance than you were like making crazy claims. But, but you know, like, that's maybe that doesn't sell like, that's you know, what he wants to hear people hedging it's no things for. Nope. Yeah. Exactly. But yet it's still managed also pissed people off. Best of all. Was so I have a couple of questions about. So this comes from the article review the long review, you send me where he talks about reach around knowledge. You know, what it reach around you stuck Knicks. That you're the together with bucket person. Not even have the got damn come and give him a rate you around. I'll be watching you. Dude. I can like I had a text message. One of my one of my former students whose whose main advisor with Dave dunning like I screen shot at it. And I was like he just fucking with us. Yeah. That's what I wanted to know. I I mean, I wanna know what it is. But mainly I wanna know was that a joke like that. He do that intentionally. Our theory is that he's just he is Tobias few ks long lost brother. Later on he talks about bottom performers and top performers, and I'm like, no. No, what are you doing? That's hilarious. I think what he means by Richard around knowledge. Jesus credit? What he means by reach around knowledge is. Is just when you you just use whatever knowledge you have at hand. Yeah. Till like he's referring to why people answer like like with certainty that they know something about something that's completely made up. So like if I ask you, what's what's the like if he asks about yes. In one study people asked what they think about the agricultural Trade Act, which is just a tissue. It's not like it doesn't actually just what they do is they reach for whatever similar shit. They think they can talk about and they use that to respond to this question. Like, they're they're they don't have any real domain specific knowledge, like they just find whatever in their in their heads and use that may reach around grab that knowledge. So yeah, I mean, the Jimmy Kimmel stuff that he talks about where he goes in interviews people at south by southwest about exactly he asks them about fake bands. Now, you might think well, they don't know anything about the band, and I thought when people didn't know anything they didn't overestimate their knowledge. But in this case, they know about music in general, and and so they have something to reach around. And grab. Crows? I. Yeah. So that's. So that you that that was one question. And again, it's like if you're on Jimmy Kimmel live like you could say I've never heard of them. But that's boring. It's just sort of like we were talking about before. Being really honest about your lack of knowledge is not that interesting. You don't often get to be on Jimmy Kimmel? So right. Have you had this experience though, that that it took me a while to have the confidence to tell students. I don't know when they asked the question like I remember thinking that my role was well like resear- and grab whatever, you know, constructive answer of. But what I realized that honestly, I didn't know the answer. And I was able to say like, oh, that's a question. I don't know the know like I'll look it up or whatever. Or if anyone in the class wants to look it up if feel so much better. Yeah. No it does. I I don't know if I had trouble earlier, I know for a while I will very comfortable saying, I don't know which isn't to say that I don't still sometimes do. Do that kind of accounting about? If I if I feel like I there's something I could connect to their question. But I say, I don't know all the time. Good question. I have no idea. So how one way of addressing this? So he talks about people who have just taken a driving class are more likely to get into accidents because they feel like they have certain skills, and he says in cases like this. The most enlightened approach proposed by Swedish researcher Neal's Petr Gregor's may be to avoid teaching such skills at all instead of training drivers how to negotiate icy conditions perhaps classes who just kind of vague the inherent danger. They should scare inexperience students away from driving in winter conditions in the first place and leave it at that. I mean. I there is something to this. I don't know about just scaring them. There is something about maybe the right approach is to let people figure out their skills themselves rather than giving them a the skills and in trying to impose it on them. And that seemed that's like a. Yeah. It's a good question. I don't know. I don't know what the right answer is. But, but it talks about this in the longer article in cases of say medical students training where they have a little bit of knowledge. So they sort of act with confidence when I believe one of the examples was intriguing wound. There's like ten things that you have to be very careful about less, the wound get infected, and they they know like three of them. Right. The three or four of them. And because they seem they think that there are only three or four things to know. They think they did a great job. But this lead to actual, you know, acsh- people dying, amputation. Right. And and so how do you get them or the inexperienced driver to know when you maybe shouldn't go out on the road or no when you should ask a senior medical. If you don't even know that you didn't know that. What like why would you go ask somebody that? I do it. Right. And I feel like giving the experience of failure somehow must like to be a good way to communicate it, and like there has to be a good way to give that feedback like a driving simulator or even a video of of somebody in an accident show. How quickly things can happen, right? Mean he suggests this when you're teaching science or teaching I think he uses the example of evolutionary theory teach it in such a way that they're going to misinterpret it, and then show them how they misinterpreted that sort of what you're talking about. You give them the experience of failure. You just show them flat out, the how prone they were to misinterpret something that they thought they knew and that's a good way of learning. What the right interpretation is. Right. You know? In the Star Trek universe there. Somebody tweeted about this. And it's a great example. There is a when they're training cadets. They put him through a simulation. It's called the Kobe. She Meru and the simulation is like, okay, you're piloting the ship and whatever Klingon start attacking your ship, and you have to make the decisions that will like what decisions will you make to get you out of the situation and the, but the test is rigged such that no decision ever leads to success and the whole point of the test is to show the cadets that there will be no win situations. Right. There will be times when you actually get everything wrong in the U fail through no fault of your own. There's no amount of knowledge that could have prepared you for it. And it seems if we ought to be able to teach this domain generally to people like if you're trying to kid like. I just don't know if it would work, right? Like sometimes there's no answer. There's no good solution. There's like it's just I you know, I was reading an earlier class schwann's. Which is an early taxed in the Taoist philosophy. And one of the big messages of that text is that our perspectives are so limited, and we know so little the big mistake is not recognizing that. So very Socrates like in that sense, not recognizing it leads to all sorts of political disasters leads to personal disasters leads to all all sorts of misunderstandings and tragedies, but unlike Socrates whose solution to that was to keep interrogating the world until your ignorance gets diminished a bit his solutions seemed to be just not even try don't because it's just too. It's too impossible. It's too daunting. It is the just understanding the world with from. Perspective as limited as ours is just not positive. So stop thinking that you can do it. Stop even trying to do it. Stop even trying to. Because I guess the worry is in some sense, the best you can do is get to that point where you'll start vastly overestimating how much, you know. Like, you'll get to that point on the dunning Kruger effect. And that's the worst situation that you can be in. So if you take the Socrates path, that's where you're going to end up and. There's something very depressing about that paralyzing. But it's interesting. It might be right. You know, it might be like, I just don't know. How far do you take that like because it seems as if not like it would require you to just do less shit. So like take an example from our own podcasts, we often say things like this like, well you and I don't know shit about Ecclesiastes. He's really, right. There's people whose like dedicate their lives to studying the book of wisdom. So we kind of go into it are remedy is to just sort of admit that we don't know anything and still have fun doing it. But that's because it's sort of a low consequence action. There's tons of stuff that like, you know, I'm sure I over confident in my driving like what I do do. I not drive, right. Like, there's a there's a weird way in which you just have to bite the bullet and say like, I know enough about this thing to do a thing. But what about something like supporting a political candidate? That's why I don't like voting. No. This is so limited of politics economics healthcare climate science. It's so limited. If you took this view, it would be hard to justify going door to door, and volunteer for some politician to get elected Bernie or whoever that oh. Right. And you know, because that takes a lot that kind of activism, political activism. It would seem like would just disappear. If you took that swans approach of just this is awesome often awesome often criticism of the more liberal mentality. Not so much impugning conservatives for being overconfident, but rather accusing liberals of being so uncertain so as to not be able to really commit to anything, and it's in stark contrast to the certainty. Right. So when you were giving that example, I was like, yeah. You know would happen is just the conservatives would win because they're more willing to say like, you know, I know this isn't a condemnation, right? There's times there's time when you did act and just bite the bullet and act with limited information and the air of not acting might be worse. But but I feel like it. There is something at least in modern in modern. In politics about the wishy washiness of liberal compared to the certainty of the conservative well in that more centrist liberal because then there is the. The activists progressives who share the passion and certainty of their of the people on the right? And actually, that's why they're making big inroads in the Democratic Party. Right. Because they have that energy and the and the inspiration that, you know, the the waffler is don't have right. Yeah. No, that's true. It's sort of like you have to pick your poison, and then and then act confidently about it. And it's like, it's a heart step for me to take in that domain in particular because. I'm waffler. I think I need to reach around more often. We should all reach the God, damn courtesy. I have a question about one of these studies. So they asked people among this is among conservatives twenty-seven percent, relative just ten percent of liberals. Agreed both that president. Obama's rhetorical. Skills are elegant, but are insufficient to influence major into international issues and that President Obama has not done enough to use his rhetorical skills to affect regime change in Iraq. Those don't seem inconsistent. Our saying to me, I was I was waiting for the for the Gotcha. I mean, I just like the President Obama. I don't even know what that President Obama has not done enough to use his rhetorical skills to that. That's so that sentence doesn't even make sense. But I, but if the best sense, I can make of it. It is not inconsistent with my there might be some tension, but it's not inconsistent with the first. So I think that if you take these as like, his President Obama's rhetorical skills are insufficient to influence major trash delicious. You're saying his rhetorical skills can never make a change. And then he's not he's not using his his rhetorical skills to make a change enough. Right. If you've just said that he can't he's incapable of of his rhetoric is incapable of a change. Then ought implies can. Yeah. I guess, but like you could also interpret using a principal. Of charity that this is what they're how they're interpreting it as he hasn't tried to develop his rhetorical skills. And in a way that would make a change in Iraq. I mean like, maybe logically. If you interpret strictly literally these sentences, but that's just not how we understand sentences. I grace you grow. I agree with you. That's why took me a second careful reading even find that. Because I think this is just true in social psychology in general, I find that like often some of the examples, they're betraying such an agenda. What what they choose to ask people about in? They. We should say often literally have zero clue that what we've just asked is is like. Betraying this ignorance about testing, the dunning, exactly exactly. God knows all the ways that we've betrayed the, you know, our ignorance with its stick for us. We know all the were making just doing them just for your entertainment every single error. We're making we're aware of we're doing it to inspire. You. Few imagine yourself better. My big dunning Kruger is I'll start a sentence thinking, I know how to finish it properly. And I just don't. With confidence. No matter what you say. She's finish it louder and with more confidence that you started. It just with a nod. Like an acuity sometimes. Yeah. You just have to give that to indicate that you're done because there's nothing nothing in the actual words that indicates. I very competent non answer. I pause for three seconds while I'm in in. Then I say, I hope that answered your question and then just move on. Does that make sense? You've had your hand up for a while. Fairness norms preventing them from interrupting you with the disabled person in the back. You've been waiting patiently. Got to use that for real. Whatever going question. Join us next time on very bad. Man plan. Brains than you. Can have a brain. Very. Just to say that with.

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Episode 30 Matt Modderno Bleav in Wizards Podcast

The Lights, Camera, Pro! Podcast

20:58 min | Last month

Episode 30 Matt Modderno Bleav in Wizards Podcast

"Welcome to the lights camera pro podcast where we interview entertainment pros about their careers and how they became successful in the industry the secret to their success here every week here's your host Sean Tura Hey everybody. Welcome to the lights camera pro podcast and your host Shaw Vittore and I just want to say go to apple podcasts and spotify and subscribed rate in review our guest today is Matt Maderno. The believe in wizards podcast that spelled b. l. e. v. leave and wizards as part of a network of sports podcast. He's got a lot of insight about the wizards NBA. The bubble it's going to be great. Here we go Sean Vitor here the lights camera pro podcast, and I'm here with Matt Maderno from the believe in Wizards Podcasts Matt? Extra me. So Matt? How're you doing that? I'm good. It's just getting used to this new norm. When we you know we web streaming live stream and all the. Crazy everybody's doing it. The believe in wizards podcast is that part of kind of looking around is at port of a believe network or something? Yes. So it's a larger podcast network, the believe network. So when you said B. L. E. V. Not the traditional spelling of belief I guess they try to get a little cute with. The general premise is that you hair a host up with an athlete and they try to cover. The goal is to have one. Show for every professional sports team, so Rick Buried as the Golden State Warriors podcast I can Taylor does the steelers obviously? Larry. Does our. Does our show. So you're going to pretty good pretty good amount of stuff former Kentucky wildcat. Tony. delk does the Kentucky podcast so It's a good idea. I think because you have so many people where it's. Just. Gives you more credibility. I think is gone in the big goal right? Right and. And what is your experience as far as like? People listening, is it like hundreds of downloads thousands were still in the hundreds range? You know honestly it sort of depends. you don't who the guest is that that makes things fluctuate a pretty good amount. So it might be a couple of hundred one we give it just the two of us. Catching people up on some basketball news or if it's Wanna Larry's former teammates you know were. Tripling or is it really that I kinda depend I think the big thing for us is we really kick this off. In right around the when the quarantine started, our goal originally was gonNA have like a soft launch a second half of the season. You know get everything together and then have like free agency to work on things. Going to build on the show and grow organically but it's just hard to have a podcast where you WanNa talk about actual game play when there's no game. So yeah. Yeah. No I'm sure that's super difficult. Have you I'M GONNA stop asking questions but I'M GONNA ask one have you had wall or beal on the show? No, we haven't yet we of open the build up a little more of a foundational base first before. Polaner our big guns out and and gone to that. So you know Larry views goes from Saint Louis, Brad beal also from Saint Louis Oh pretty easy connection there Brad Jason Tatum that place the Celtics is is Larry Scott on so project Jason on at some point but oh, awesome Summer for them to. You know it was one of those things where trying to wrestle with the right time to to kind of bring those guys in. Right right. So can you tell me 'cause we have a lot of podcasters the interested in this? can you tell me while i? Know believe I keep saying believe but it's believe actually. The network was started at some point but really just right now interested in you and how you got started how you got involved with the podcast. Yes we've been. We've been going since Jay well, we started putting together conceptually in January and we've been running shows since March so still pretty new to this You know it was one of those things where. Some mutual connections I have mentioned that A. PODCAST network was looking for for hosts and trying to fill up certain shows and I'm from the DC area originally, that was on my team of preference. Cover the team for a couple of different blogs. So it was just one of those things where. I have an interest in an end, some background knowledge in in the locker room and covered the team and stuff like this. So it just made a lot of sense and then it became kind of WHO's very co host to do west and. Now store the open question for a while and and have a good friend of mine who was A. Basketball coach had mentioned. He had you know some with Larry, a decade or maybe two decades ago at this point. Just talk about what a nice guy. He was. He personally one of my favorite players to watch on the wizard so. Didn't see him doing a lot of media. Ayler. Would you be interested in luckily? Yes. How do you get together with Larry and had us at all work like you guys rehearse beforehand because he's not like he hasn't done a blog or anything like that. You said he has a camp and he does some other things. But how do you get him in there and get him used to doing this? We did one dry run and I think for us. That's kind of why we wanted to do sort of a soft launch to this and slowly build up to things But yet he's just he's just been out of an actual at to gosh for the he's just a well-spoken articulate dude knows the game at such a an intricate level that. it is easy for him to talk about it and it's been kind of a natural fit and I try to. Do a lot of the show prep work to make things as easy on him as I can. Hear. The topics here are some key questions I think will WANNA hit on but overall. It's just been really Kinda easy. While together best wizard of all time. This is your opinion. It's not bleacher report or NBA dot com or Larry Hughes. So number one John Wall. I think he's a great player so much fun to watch. Number two Michael Jordan. He's one of the if not the greatest player of all time, but there's a it gets so tricky with these polls does account because he was only on the wizards for two years and then your co host Larry, Hughes, which you might have to seek easier. Are we talking just specifically the wizards history or recount bullets here to? Wizard bullets in the whole thing. Yeah. I. Know. I saw some other names online that I wasn't familiar with but if you WANNA, talk about them to Just, go ahead. Yeah I think Larry Will, give me a pass here just just for duration John Wall's been a multi mall start for a decade. So that list I think you have to say he's the best wizard of that group You know obviously I'm Jay and personal opinion the best player ever. So if we're talking who those guys had the best ceiling, that's that's obviously a the best player in Washington franchise histories probably West on sell. it's unbelievable post player rebounder defender Passer and took them kind of their only championship in the late Seventies. So I think that's probably the the consensus answer but you know for me in my time in really I think the peak of Gilbert Arenas would be sort of buying I answer that. The Larry Hughes. Gobert. Arenas Antawn Jamison teams those are the ones that really got me as into basketball as I am just the most fun I've had watching. Awesome in Gilbert Arenas wasn't he on the warriors to one point? Yeah it was actually funny Larry got traded from. Philadelphia to Golden State They drafted Gilbert they had Jameson as well. Larry. Left in free agency to go to the wizards and then they eventually. Traded or Gilbert joined in free agency in Washington as well, and then they later traded for. Jameson. So they were on Golden State together and they weren't very good there and then ask for a couple of years in Washington. I you know they were one of the probably six seven best teams in the league very cool and do you know who what the hosting services for your? PODCAST. We put our on art. Nineteen. Oh what is that what that is? Yet it's Sh-, it's worth a look it sort of aggregated to all the major platforms for you. So it's another has sings night, which does that also do tillich fourteen different platforms iheartradio apple spotify. but I haven't heard of ARC nineteen on my research art nineteen It's. It's what a The wizards talk and things like that. That do the NBC. PODCAST, they use that a couple of other big ones show. It's Worth a look. It's good. The network sort of sets that stuff up and it makes it pretty easy on us to just. Go, in put on all the Basic Info Upload tag it all that good stuff. Yeah and Okay. So I have a couple of questions. One is, are you guys recording in a studio Are you recording according remotely now before this cove, it happened where you recording studio or just in an office or? So we're each recording individually we've I think the majority of our episodes of featured a gas. So it is kind of easier to do that through zoom recorded as a call, and then I go through an edited at all after but. Actually lives fulltime in Saint Louis I think during a typical year there's. On the road a lot and a lot of appearances and stuff like that. But he does run a youth academy in Saint Louis Try to get back to the community there where he's from so. We would be remote most of the time anyway. I have my office and stuff that we can record in you're in DC. And Maryland, but close enough to DC right and how are you promoting it? Do you have ads? Do you have just like promoting gained while there's not games but would you promote games come out to Friday night two for one tickets or something? Yeah. I mean I think one of the things we'll try to get into is trying to do some actual promotion with the there's some things tight back to. you know like I've seen were another podcast this done like, Hey, come to come to G. League night at the G. League affiliate and will will do all the fans could come and hang out to a meet and greet and stuff like that. No idea what that's GonNa look like even next season it's just my personal hunch. All of next NBA season is played without fans to at least maybe through the. End of this calendar year so It's kind of tough to arrange the in person things and scheduled of maybe schedule some stuff around one Larry's town but. A lot of social media promotion overall network are on and trying to use leverage. The guests that we've had we've had a half dozen NBA players we're only on episode fifteen and. Just, just a big local guy. So three Larry's former teammates have been on Muggsy bogues to come talk about what it was like to be in space jam Bu-. While, Williams sort of a big local legend Z. played at University of Maryland. Walton he played over a decade in the NBA. Tennis player Francis T AFO has been as high as twenty five in the world is a third fan. So we had him on just trying to get different people couple couple riders, different perspectives like that. The one of the problems for them last two years as. People even watch games anymore. Anyway if you're if you're under a certain age, are you just watching highlights on twitter? World it's really tricky. There was one thing where the Commissioner was talking about ninety nine cent games for the fourth quarter because most people just watch the fourth quarter if they watch at all but my my kids were hugh talks and warriors fans. and. They just watch everything on highlights and I'm like what he is doing you got to watch the game. This is craziness. was there anything you like? Are you still doing the blog? Is there anything you WanNa talk about like your blog or tell people about where they can find the believe podcast? Yeah. Sure. So it for anybody that that decent amount online sports content there's. One of the bigger platforms has called SP nation. They have washed wizards specific blog called bullets forever. Harping back to the original name. Dusen Ryanair's did an article the other week about six guys. The wizard consider signing to add to their roster for the end of the year. But a Lotta Times started. Focusing on some stuff we talked about on the show and and trying to give it another another twist an take on It'd take on those kinds of things so. Yeah. That's gotta the main thing that that I do to keep active with team and and just. Stay involved in sports overall other than this podcast. So anywhere. Where people get their podcasts you know. All the good stuff spotify to die hard anything like that L. E. V. Wizards. And coasted with former wizard thirteen year veteran Larry Hughes got a bunch of time guests lined up for the summer I, his form team, Gilbert Arenas on and a couple of weeks. Cool. Try to get some of the wizards guys. You know maybe anyway until after a, it's a long shot that they'll make the actual playoffs there may be once they're technically eliminated or something you can get a couple of guys on talk about what the the bubble experience was like so. The running joke for them. Is there hotels of the Yacht Club at Disney? So Find out a little bit. You know what life is like on the yacht club. It's insight there is far podcasting in in you. This is your first podcast, right? Yeah I mean I. I have a broadcast journalism degree. So I've done a ton of radio host, my own Qadri show back in the day. So I got got a pretty good sense for how to do that. All the sound levels and editing and make it sound reasonable and I worked for ESPN RADIO FOR AWHILE and a couple other. Outlets on on radio shows TV shows things like that. So I officially podcast but I've kind of been shown up on other people's for the last couple of years. And have. You seen a surge or an increase in the video podcasts as far as the sports stuff. A lot of people SPH nation bleacher report, MBA DOT, com, they're doing like some. Sports video podcasts. Honestly not as much as you would think, it some of the bigger outlets like I think ESPN's had a lot of spinoff content on Youtube and They try to do like a snap chat thing for a while I don't know how successful that's been them. So. Stuff like that CBS sports has been doing a lot of youtube related content. But as far as. Know some of the more like website based stuff I'm so much and it's kind of interesting to me. I think that would be. An easy way for them to do that? Maybe. That's just A. In a some people prefer that particular medium that may not translate as well. But the athletic does a lot of obviously athletic com. Coverage and they've had a lot of their writers also do double duty as podcasters. Had varying degrees of success for them, but they haven't seen any video content from them at all either so. Just. Just kind of that. You know I think sometimes people are sort of slow to realize that that's an option. For us it, it hasn't been. We put all of our podcast as audio files on Youtube. We haven't been posting the the live feeds yet just because. There's every episode there's been some cutout of audio or somebody's Internet goes out for a few minutes. Let's just part of Y-. I'm just not a skilled a video editor anymore. You know it's been a decade for Mason been that kind of stuff. So. I WANT WANNA clean ours up a little bit and there's a good amount of. GOOF around for ten minutes before and after talk about next week Doesn't work as well live for us as it does for you. So what would you? Have kind of an interesting. Kind of advice to give people because you're part of this network and you're also part of this team. What kind of advice would you give to people who want to be involved in sports podcasts? Would you say go and be a writer I or? Vice. That's a really good question. I mean I. Think my first thing would be don't expect to make a lot of money from it. You know sports generals, one of those things where. There are so many people that want to do it. That it's it's a tough one to. To be profitable in I, think if you're that. Top ten percent or you can. You can make a pretty big living. In a coming out of college I got offered a job SPN radio and it would have been a come come be the DC producer for the Mike and Mike. Show and and run it from here run our local ads. You'd be three o'clock in the morning to get ready for the five am show and all this stuff. That was going to pay twenty grand I mean. It's one of those things. So if you WANNA make freelance money on the back end. You could come work games at night and collect sound at the game. So you really WanNa work twenty four hours a day just to. To kind of scrape by and stuff. So it's Can always find somebody else that wants to work in Sports I. Think. My suggestion a lot of people have a day job. do something you like to do and use this as a as a way to combat something you're passionate about and? I've had a couple experiences the year which another reason minded one through this as a profession where. If you just have a bad experience with somebody that you're a fan of it it just. MAKES AMEX worked off, and now you've not only hurt your day job but also your passion and your hobby. So it just had a nice to keep those things separate I think. Yeah. Well, very cool. Matt. I wish the wizards the best of luck. All have we can get exactly. What There was there was John Wall Bradley beal and. Who's the third really good player I. Think he left. Off Reporter for auto film where does he? He got traded to the Bulls. Okay. That's right. I remember that. They offered him a Max deal and Nance. Georgia didn't work out for them maybe as well as they would hope I think he was really good in that. SORTA third wheel route a didn't have a maybe star potential enough to justify Max contract. They already have built on a Max and walls on the whole supermax. So if you've got forty million of your hundred, million dollars committed to one player, it's. It's really a lot of people have said that they have those two guys with a ton of money. Not a like do specially and it's been really unfortunate walls been hurt. It's it is what it is. All right man. We have a great day. Thanks so much for doing this and I will. Yeah. Thanks for listening to the lights camera pro podcast for entertainment pros talk about how they made their dream into a career goto apple podcasts and spotify and subscribed rate and review. Thanks to Bob. Jergens for the Rock and video and Joseph mcdade for the music. Next week, we have a very special guest. It's Shannon mcvay. She's hilarious. She is the host of a weakened Atlanta. She's got a lot of fans. He's got a lot to say it's GonNa be fun. Check it out next week.

wizards Larry NBA Larry Hughes basketball spotify Matt Maderno Gilbert Arenas Youtube apple DC Jay Washington Sean Tura Saint Louis Golden State Warriors b. l. e. writer Larry Will Kentucky wildcat