8 Episode results for "Winfield Scott Hancock"

64: Grant's Overland Campaign: The Battles of the Wilderness, Spotsylvania, Cold Harbor, & Petersburg

History That Doesn't Suck

57:02 min | 1 year ago

64: Grant's Overland Campaign: The Battles of the Wilderness, Spotsylvania, Cold Harbor, & Petersburg

"History that doesn't suck as a biweekly podcast. Alenia legit seriously researched hard hitting survey of American history through entertaining stories. If you'd like to support each tedious or enjoy some perks like ad free early episodes for two dollars a month please consider giving APP Patriotic Dot, com forward slash history that doesn't suck. To, keep up with HDD s news, check us out on facebook twitter or instagram. Welcome to history that doesn't suck. I'm a Professor Greg Jackson and I'd like to tell you story. It's early in the morning may eleventh eighteen, sixty four. The confederacies most beloved Cavalryman General Jeb Stuart leads his three thousand or so men down Telegraph road. They're all that stands between Union General Philip Sheridan's over ten thousand strong cavalry and the capital of Richmond Virginia. Jabs outnumbered three to one. But he can't shirk this fight. The General I believe you love bullets. Private George freed says to JEB half joking half serious as they ride out to engage this far larger force. No freed JEB replies. I do not love bullets any better than you do I go where they are because it is my duty and I do not expect to survive this war. Shortly. After expressing that sambre, thought just shy of ten am Jeb comes to a halt at the yellow tavern. Food will be wedding there whistle. Here. The three stories Tall long-abandoned stagecoach stop hasn't seen business in years. The. Condition of this decaying mansion of gloom has only worsened throughout the war as soldiers have peeled off. It's playing sports and doors for use as firewood. It sits about half a mile south of where the Roads Telegraph and. Merged become the brook turnpike. Only six miles south on that very turnpike is the confederate capital. Jeb knows his union foe is coming down mountain road. It's in this synergy the confederate commander will make his stand. Union general. Philip Sheridan's far larger cavalry arrived shortly thereafter. The federal take hold of both sides of the Turnpike just above the yellow tavern. Jeb His men are just north of them holding both sides of. Telegraph. Road. Artillery riflefire firefly is blue and gray clad men charged across the grass and through small patches of trees to engage in hand to hand combat. Incredibly, the confederates hold. Around two PM JEB gets word from Richmond's defender General Braxton. Bragg that he has sufficient men to defend the city relieved the confederate cavalry commander begins to think he might even be able to take the offensive Braxton could send reinforcements. Little Does Jab. Know that Union General Philip Sheridan Sees Richmond Secondary Gold. Phillips real purpose is to put an end to the confederate cavalryman who makes union men shake in their boots. He's here to capture injure or kill JEB. Stuart. It's not long after this that union general George Armstrong custer spots a weakness in confederate lines. The Thin Moustachioed Union cavalry commander with flowing curly hair prepares to charge supported by artillery. Georgia's Michigan wolverines charge alcohol states license better. With their savers. JEB FEARLESSLY RIDES INTO THE ACTION Steady men steady give it to him. He yells out encouraging nearby K. Company while unloading his Whitney, revolved on. The Union cavalry charges repulsed mounted and on foot they fall back sitting atop his grey Steed Jeb unsheathes his sword in triumph and exclaims bully for all k give it two boys. And then. A forty four caliber ball explodes from a Union pistol. The official report credits private John a half of the fifth Michigan formerly of the second US sharpshooters although some historians will later express doubts. But regardless of who fired it the ball finds its mark it enters jabs, left hip rips through his stomach and exits his back one inch from the spine. Jeb Wheels in his saddle. His head lurches whipping around his thick Auburn Brown beard and ostrich plumed. Hat. The swashbuckling gray cloud general barely manages to stay mounted on his grey horse as Captain Gus. Dorsey. Dashes forward and grabs rains. I am shot Dorsey Save, your men. Jeb Ekes. Out. The heartbroken Captain Helps Jeb out of the saddle places against a tree, all the while ignoring his shot through generals, admonitions to forget about him and get back to the fight. The battle continues to rage is three of jobs. Men Place him on a horse and get him to the back lines where mule drawn ambulance can rush into a surgeon and hospital. Several jobs, officers and staff flocked to him as confederate surgeon Gallup's at full speed toward the ambulance. As. They try to plot a course for Richmond. Jesse's his soldiers retreating some have fallen back as far as his ambulance. Weak Pale and bleeding the general lifts himself and pleads with his weakened voice. Go back, go back and do your duty as i. have done mine and our country will be safe. Go back go back. I had rather die than be whipped. Jabs men will weep bitterly as word of his injury makes the rounds. The gravely injured commander looks to w q holon using his nickname for the staff officer Jeb asks. Honey Bun. How do I look in the face? General you're looking riot. Well, you will be alright. The hopeful officer. Response. Well. I don't know how this will turn out. But if his God's will that I shall die. I'm ready. The blood-soaked general returns. With the Union cavalry holding the Yellow Tavern the ambulance and its entourage can't take the Brook Turnpike and head to Richmond six miles to the south they're forced to travel circuitously crossing the chicken hominy river then swinging through at least station and Mechanicsville. Jeb Indoors acute pain as they roll over these bumpy roads. Several hours later and under the dark cover of night, the ambulance finally reaches the Richmond Home of Dr Charles Brewer. Charles isn't only a medical professional he and his wife Maria our jobs brother-in-law and sister-in-law. Maria Rea- Sister Flora is Jeff's wife the get Jeb inside where Charles and other doctors is the wound. That's as much as medical professionals of the day can do for shot to the stomach. Visitors come the next day. Jeb seems to improve as Heros von Borka arrives. This Prussian aristocrat crossed the Atlantic to fight for the confederacy in eighteen sixty two and has fought by judge side ever since. Jobs chief-of-staff Henry McClellan arrives soon thereafter. Jeb feels the end drawing near. He makes an impromptu last will and testament to Henry. Among jobs requests are the Andrew Venable. Receive his Great Horse Henry himself take his Brown horse. And that his young son Jimmy Inherit, his sword. CSI President Jefferson Davis comes to visit. Jeb tells the confederate executive exactly what he's told so many others that he's quote. Willing to die if God and my country think I have filled my destiny. AM I. Duty? Close quote. Seizures come and go as JEB hopes he'll live to see his wife Flora one last time. She's traveling to Richmond as fast as she can. Jeb Asks Dr Charles Brewer if he'll survive the night. In the kindest way possible Charles has to tell his bleeding out brother-in-law that's not likely. It's now seven PM, Reverend Joshua Peter Those present seeing jabs favourite hymn. Rock of ages. Tries he might. Jeb can't even sing at this point. I'm going fast now. He tells Charles. I'm resigned. God's will be done. The thirty one year old cavalry leading confederate general with unparallel panache draws his last breath at seven, thirty, eight, pm. May Twelfth eighteen sixty four. His wife and children arrive at around eleven thirty at night. Roughly, four hours too late to say, goodbye. She'll mourn him by wearing black every day until her own death more than half a century later in nineteen twenty-three. Jeff, Stewart's death at the battle of yellow tavern is the most painful lost the confederacy has suffered since the death of stonewall. Jackson in eighteen, sixty three. It is emblematic of terrible loss. Both sides will experience in eighteen, sixty four. While the Union won't be losing an equally iconic general in today's episode the casualty rate in the army of the Potomac will be outrageous as general ulysses grant his overland campaign. Will I see his promotion to Lieutenant General the First Lieutenant General of the US Army since George Washington? Then, we'll follow him on his piece of five part master plan. The has union armies campaigning against places like Alabama and the Shenandoah Valley all at once this campaign is risky. But unconditional surrender grant isn't one for backing down. So let's head back to March eighteen sixty four in join up with ulysses in Washington DC. rewind. On March eighth eighteen, sixty, four ulysses grant in his fourteen year. Old Son Fred Walk into one of the capital cities find hotels the Willard Hotel quietly approach the check in desk. The haughty clerk is used to serve in DC politically leat empower players. When he surveys ulysses worn out military issue coat scuffed boots and overall shabby appearance clerk figures. This man his son can be worth as notice. euless quietly asks the clerk for a room. The clerk replies that he only has a few rooms available sarcastically quipping that there's a war on and hotels pretty busy. You listen only nods refraining from telling the clerk that he probably knows a little more about the war than this pompous snob who went in a pistol from a rifle. Unassuming you list would never do that. The clerk offers you listen Fred Room on the top floor and tells them to sign in the general merely signs. US and son Galena Illinois. Oh. That gets the clerks. Attention. General. Grant. Why didn't you tell me who you were the humble hotel employees gasps. But before you list time to respond the quirk loudly announces to the entire hotel lobby that general grant has arrived and we'll be staying in parlor sweet number six. Trying to overcome his earlier faux PAS. The blustering clerk also hands ulysses a letter from President Lincoln. It's an invitation to a White House reception this evening. The next day ulysses goes to the white. House to be sworn in as the nation's first lieutenant generals since George Washington. Last month Congress passed a bill to recreate the position and president. Lincoln. Nominated his right hand man ulysses s grant. General tecumseh Sherman Ulysses bff wrote to him. Quote if you can continue as here to four to be yourself semple honest and unpretentious thing, you will enjoy through life the respect and love of friends and homage of millions of human beings. Close quote. That compliment from a friend must be bolstering ulysses as he now stands before the president, the entire cabinet and several onlookers as he takes an oath with the commencement of this new commission. After the swearing in ceremony ulysses read a simple four line statement in which he says. With the aid of the noble armies that Afa. So many. For our, common country. It will be my earnest endeavour not to disappoint your expectations. I feel the full weight of the responsibilities now devolving on me and no, they are met, it will be due to those armies. Right, after this humble speech, the Illinois rail splitter and unconditional surrender grant sit down and private to hash out a battle plan. Now Lincoln's been through his fair share of generals in the last three years and he's ready to close the revolving door of over promising under delivering military leaders. You List Lay remembers what Lincoln said in their first meeting. Quote. All he wanted or ever wanted was someone who would take the responsibility and act. Close quote. The president promises to stay out of the way and provide any necessary support. Nonetheless, Lincoln can't help pointing out what he thinks a good plan of attack might look like in Virginia. You list diplomatically shears the president that his idea might look good in theory, but it won't work in practice. To his credit we can accepts ulysses assessment and doesn't offer any more tactical ideas. The President listens to newly installed Lieutenant General Grant's plan with interest. In order to stretch the confederate armies to to breaking point ulysses wants to launch several simultaneous attacks. euless prove that he can use a country out of four as well as Lincoln as he explains that the Union Army's had quote. Acted independently and without concert like a Balky team, no to ever pulling together. Close quote you want to sit to attack Atlanta while the army of the Potomac moves against Robert e Lee in Richmond. To turn up the heat on the pressure cooker euless wants to Daniel banks to attack Mobile Alabama Fran Siegel to raid the Shenandoah Valley and Benjamin Butler to march toward Petersburg just south of Richmond. Lincoln loves this plan. It actually puts the unions numerical advantage over the confederacy to good use giving every federal army apart to play. The Illinois Rail Splitter sums up ulysses plan in a classic country style. Although twenty-first-century hunters can still appreciate it. If a man can't skin. He must hold a leg while someone else does. Nice. President Way to stay true to your roots. Lincoln and Ulysses waste no time putting this planet action. But the creation of lieutenant general position has caused a domino effect down the army chain of command. So they need to get everybody situated before they move forward. With you listen stalled as Lieutenant General of the entire US army. That's about five, hundred, thirty, thousand men. Our friend Henry old brains Haluk moves down to army chief of staff, a more administrative role that actually suits him quite well. To come to Sherman moves up to command. The, division. Of. The. Mississippi. This leaves ulysses free to take up his post with the army of the Potomac overseeing its current leader General George Meade. Basically Ulysses pulling eight George Little Mac McClellan. He'll command the army of the Potomac and oversee the operations of the entire US force. Only. Unlike little Mac Ulysses will actually pull it off. On March tenth the day after he's sworn in ulysses heads southwest from Washington city to Brandy Station where the army of the Potomac has been canceled the winter. That evening, he meets with the current commander of the army of the Potomac George Meade for the first time. The organizational shift could get well awkward but as the two men discuss strategy over cigars, euless grows respects unlike George. Yes. Yeah. George. Who We met in episode sixty has a temper and yes his men on affectionately call him old snapping turtle behind his back. But despite these flaws, euless won't be pink slipping George Anytime soon. Ulysses reports. He spoke so patriotically and unselfishly that even if I had had any intention of relieving him, I should have been inclined to change my mind after the Manley attitude he assumed in this frank interview. So the two men work out an arrangement where ulysses will issue abroad orders to the army of the Potomac George will see to the details of putting those orders into action. I know the sounds like the office episode where Jim and Michael Become co managers of the Thunder Mifflin Scranton branch. But don't worry. It's going to work out a little better than that. Anyway with the chain of command, all worked out ulysses is ready to put his multi-front plan into action. History that doesn't Sake is sponsored by Bomba's us. Baba's makes most comfortable socks in history of feet. They've literally rethought every little detail of the socks we wear to make them away more comfortable. 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Soldiers from four cores and the cavalry lift up their guns and wade through the waist deep water. Supply wagons carrying enough food and AMMO for this one, hundred, fifteen, thousand, strong army crossed the river on pontoon boats. You list gets more dressed up than usual for this momentous occasion wearing his dress uniform and polished boots reporters embedded within the army can tell the generals excited to be emotion. One asks. Sir. How long do you think it will take to reach Richmond? Usually, soft-spoken you list can't help give tongue in cheek reply. I will agree to be there in about four days there porter looks stunned but the general continues. That is If General Lee becomes pardoned to the arrangement but if he objects the triple undoubtedly be prolonged. The reporter laughs, but anyone listening to the exchange must figure that Bobby Lee plans to fiercely object to any union movements. That night, these federal troops camp, and a tangled force of old new growth trees just east of Chancellor's Ville known as the Wilderness. Yes. These guys have been here before many of them fought the battle chancellor's Ville just last year which I told you about an episode fifty nine and just like last year Bobby Lee and his fierce rebel fighters have no intention of leading the union troops advanced beyond these woods. But this is a terrible place to pitch a battle and not just because the woods are littered with skeletons in grave markers from the eighteen sixty, three fight. One North Carolina's soldiers scribes the scene. Quote. Imagine a great dismal forest containing the worst kind of thicket of second growth trees. So thick with small pine and Scrub, Oak Cedar Dogwood, and other growth common to the country that one could see barely ten paces. Close quote. Nonetheless. confederate. General Bobby Lee positions men in these woods to await their foe. On the afternoon of May fifth. Union troops advanced on the rebel lines which extend northwest to southeast through the thick woods, small clearings and narrow paths of the Wilderness. Though the confederate of Northern Virginia isn't a full-strength yet the battle begins in earnest. Rebel soldiers counterattack, and frustrate nearly every federal advance up and down the battle lines. The fight rages for hours as around seventy thousand blue clad soldiers exchanged fire with forty thousand gray butternut Klag man. By, nightfall neither side has gained any advantage only barely holding on to their own lines. Bobby Lee knows that James Old Pete Long streets men will arrive in the morning though. He orders his men to hunker down and prepare for battle dawn. But Ulysses wants to take the initiative not wait for bobby lead come to him. So a May sixth, he orders a five am attack on the southeast section of the confederate lines. Union General Winfield Scott Hancock opens fire right control, and begins driving the confederates back. Living up to his namesake the multi war hero General Winfield Scott Hancock urges his men to continue their onslaught. He pushed the rebels back nearly a mile hancock exclaims to an aid. We are driving them Sir tell General Meade, we are driving them. But General Hancock spoke too soon by mid morning old Pete Long Street in his nearly fourteen thousand men from Texas Arkansas arrive on the battlefield. Though they have marched all night them in jump into the fray and Bobby, Lee is so excited. The Old Virginia leads these reinforcements into battle himself. twenty-three-year-old private James. Cosgrove of the Fourth Texas watches in awe. I'll let him tell the story. I saw generally as he rode at full speed across the front of the Brigade, then leading the division calm attack. The tickets were crowned with tops of federal battle flags showing a large force, which was further evidenced by musketry fire withering in the extreme in this mighty Din General Lee road out to lead his army in a charge. For the first time, we were called to attention and in moving forward. Arms at right shoulder guide center I saw generally somewhere near the center of the Brigade Front formation when the cry went up lead of the rear, the general to the rear and the brigade halted. Yet there is no way in hell. These Texans are going to let a union bullet take down their beloved bearded general. So while the men call out Lee to the rear a young soldier steps up to lead Bobby Lee's horse back to safer ground. James Cosgrove continues a story. Ordinance officer Randall of Rusk Texas sees general ease bridal and was killed dragging his horse back to the rear. The enemy was at point blank distance in firing upon us very, very heavy thinking the trumpet Voice of General Greg Our brigade commander men the eyes of your general are upon you forward and give 'em. Hell. James and his great clad comrades obey with a vengeance. The addition of old Pete Long streets, men, tips, the Scales and the confederates favor union brigades. Get pushed back to their original lines. But in the confusing dense woods filled with smoke from small fires in dust kicked up by thousands of men disoriented rebel soldiers fire on their own. In Erie, repeat of the battle, Chancellor's Phil were friendly fire mortally wounded stonewall Jackson it confederate general takes a bullet to the arm from one of his own men. This time. It's old Pete. Thankfully for the rebels OPEC wound isn't fatal. He'll be out of commission for the next few months though. Bobby Lee takes over all pete's post in the battle rages on around four fifteen. PM sparks from rifles and cannon start in the tangled underbrush and wooded breast works of the Union lines. Men Too wounded to run burned to death while they're powerless to help comrades listen to their screenings. One soldier recalls. Quote. The wind how to treetops mingling it's moans groans of the dine and heavy branches were cut off by the fire of the artillery and fell crashing upon the heads of the men adding new terror to battle. Close quote. These fire slow the battle, but don't stop it. Determined, federal and rebel troops shoot at each other until when confederate General John Gordon orders an assault on the exposed fought out union. Right Rebel soldiers pound into the federal troops, taking hundreds of prisoners, including two generals and sending a ripple of panic through union lines. Remember the army of the Potomac has been here before literally. Most of the men figures time say uncle and retreat back across the Rapid Dan. One. freaked out. Brigade general report delicious at his headquarters. I know Lee's methods. Well, by past experience, he will throw his whole army between us in the rapid an and cut us off completely from our communications. But you is fed up with this kind of defeatist talk he barks back. I am heartily tired of hearing about what Lee is going to do. Some of you always seem to think he is suddenly going to turn double somersaults and land in our rear on both of our flanks at the same time, go back to your command and try to think what we are going to do ourselves instead of what Lee is going to do. Ulysses outbursts seems to work union troops regain their lost ground by nightfall in the Battle of the Wilderness ends when northern soldier records quote. It was a blind and bloody haunt to death and bewildering thickets rather than a battle. Close quote. The brutal fighting takes it's toll on you list who writes that. Moore desperate fighting has not been witnessed on this continent. The Rung. General allows himself to cry over his dead wounded and captured man. For a full ten minutes before getting a few hours of sleep. Nearly, all of the one, hundred, fifteen, thousand union, and sixty thousand confederate troops in these two armies engaged in the battle. EULESS has nearly eighteen thousand casualties and bobby. Lee Has ten, thousand, eight hundred. Still euless promised present Lincoln that he would not retreat in. He means to keep his word. A May. Seventh the bruised but not broken general sends a message to the President simply saying. What happens there will be no turning back. down. But most of ulysses subordinates aren't this determined down in Alabama. Nathaniel beings operation against mobile has stalled out in southern Virginia Benjamin Butler is moving. So slowly the confederates have time to reinforce their positions. In the Shenandoah Valley France Segel runs away from bowel. So often he seems to be putting on how to retreat from Bowel Seminar for the confederates. Yeah, it's ugly only to come to Sherman in Georgia seems to be moving forward per his orders. Still, euless doesn't give up on his plan. After this tactical draw the Battle of the wilderness he doesn't let his men lick their wounds for long on the night of May. Seven years ordered the army of the Potomac move south toward a little crossroads town called spots. Vania. It's only now that union soldiers begin to see this battle was just the beginning of a larger plan. They don't know it yet, but the battle of the wilderness just kicked off the overland campaign and what will turn into more than a month of almost daily fighting between the Union and confederate forces in. Virginia. As soon, as the army of the Potomac gets on the road confederate figure, he's retreating north. After all isn't that what every other union general has ordered. Confederate General John Gordon Brags. That has quote. No doubt. But that grant is retreating close quote. But Bobby Lee correct John. You ominous taken quite mistaken grant is not retreating. He is not a retreating man. Yeah, both Bobby Leeann Ulysses grant knows that they have met their equals on the battlefield. While the federals marched towards spots Vania. So did a confederates. Actually bobbies grey clad soldiers beat the union boys, spots, Lavinia, and immediately start digging trenches and breast words just north of the town. And these lines are awesome early in the war Cima Bobby Lee's men called him the king of spades because he made them dig line so much. But they don't like him anymore. bobbies turned his men into professional trench and breast work builders. The confederate lines art from north west of the town through the woods rolling hills down to its eastern side. But at the north most point, the line juts out severely from a bird's eye view it looks like a mule shoe sticking north out of the line. And that's probably why the men call this part of this position, the Mule Shoe. I know a mule shoe comparison is super useful for twenty century listeners basically horseshoe except the ends are GonNa come together rather than like you. There you go. On May ninth when Bobby Leeann specs the lines, he's not sure this mule shoe is defensible enough. He tells confederate General Dick, you'll. This is a wretched line I do not see how can be held. But it's too late to change positions. The Union army has been filling the woods north of the confederate lines all day a battle is coming. Under the cover of Darkness Bobby Lee arranges the positions of his troops to plug up any holes in the lines ulysses knows about this but he doesn't have good Intel on exactly where bobbies placing his men nor does the cigar loving you general have away get it. c- he sent his cavalry often array just yesterday. So you list is flying somewhat blind. Assuming the Bobby Lee has enforced his west and east flanks at the expense of his northern center ulysses orders a direct assault on the confederate mule shoe for five PM on May tenth. George Meade puts the order into action except for one piece, our favorites I burned general. Ambrose burnside is here with his core in George Meade can't give to ambrose for one practical reason. Ambrose outranks George. So you Lis- Orders Ambrose to support the planned assault. But all of these orders from list ambrose from you listed George from George to his subordinates get confused lost misunderstood as a result, the attack it's push back to six PM. And that crucially gives dashing union colonel emory upton another hour polish his innovative assault plan. Here's the thing. Emery a colonel serving under. General. Winfield Scott. Hancock. Devours military strategy books fast. Alexander Hamilton wrote his fifty one of the eighty five federalist papers. In other words, emery knows his stuff. He sees a chance to try something new that could help union salt on the fortified confederate position succeed and regathered his twelve regimental commanders. So that quote. They might understand the work before them. Close quote in a nutshell, emery orders his men to March in formation three regiments across four deep. They should approach the mule shoe at a quick pace and not fire a shot till they reached the rebel lines was the first line hits, the works, the break left and right. So the next line can reach the works join the fight. The next line will do the same and the next until all twelve regiments are attacking the length of the rebel breast works at once. It's both ingeniously brilliant and stunningly simple. At Five Fifty PM Union artillery starts firing on the confederate meals shoot. At six o'clock sharp, the gun stop infantry move in. EMORY UPTON attack plan totally works. The Blue Coats quickly, overwhelmed the rebels and captured a huge chunk of confederate lines in brutal hand to hand combat. As the hot tired men fight it out in the trenches confederate reinforcements arrive but no union troops move up to help emery and his men hold their position. And we're takes a bolt to the guy and his men are forced to retreat. Though it didn't have ultimate success. One historian calls curl emory upton to assault quote. One of the classic infantry attacks of military history. Close quote. The next day may eleventh heavy rain turns the dusty roads and footpaths in the mud slicks. But the fighting continues as ulysses tries to figure out a way to break bobby lease lines. He sends a message to President Lincoln. I propose to fight it out on this line if it takes all summer. Once again, unconditional surrender grant showing his steely grit. Now, Bobby Lee, and you list are both incredible commanders but they aren't super human. They make mistakes and Bobby's about to make a big one. He gets faulty Intel from his son Rooney. Cavalry. Major General who reports that the army of the Potomac seems to be on the move east toward Fredericksburg. They aren't, but bobby believes his son. Anyway. In an effort to catch list by surprise Bobby Muzy artillery currently protecting the mule shoe to attack the root he thinks the Union army is on. This leaves the critical Mule Shoe under protected when Union troops renew their assault in the predawn fog and rain at four thirty on May Twelfth. While the ever Dapper Winfield Scott Hancock attacks from the North Ambrose burnside hits the meal shoes east side. The boys in blue quickly occupied a muddy blood splattered rebel trenches. But Bobby Leeson's in reinforcements and devolve into a brutal slug best of hand to hand combat and rifle fire. Bobby Lee calls back artillery from this pointless mission as fifteen thousand more union troops joined the battle. The fighting lasts all day. Literally, some estimates have the combat ranging from eighteen to twenty three hours. Yes. twenty-three around mid-day Union troops attacked the West side of the Mule Shoe. This area quickly becomes known as the bloody angle. Here, thousands of soldiers lock horns in a desperate attempt to control hundred yards of the confederate built trenches. One trooper remembers. Quote. The flags of both armies waved at the same moment over the same breasts works while beneath them federal and confederate endeavoured to drive home the bayonet through the interstate. Close quote. Gathering darkness doesn't slow the fighting around two a m. a new sound fills the soldiers in the bloody angle with fear. A twenty two inch diameter old growth oak tree sways ominously it's large trunk creaking. Union, bullets meant for confederate soldiers have been hacking away at his tree all day with its trunk cut almost clear through this beast is falling the tree crashes down on wounded soldiers who can't get out of the way quickly. Pinning them the muddy earth. Heavy, rain across the next few days puts a damper on major fighting the confederates moved their position into a north south running line facing East Union, Troops Mir this movement and regroup in their own lines, just east spots, Vania both armies eye each other warily, but neither attempt to gain ground. A may nineteenth the skies clear confederate General Dick. You'll runs a recon mission near Harris farm northeast of spots Lavinia courthouse. His men find newly-arrived federal reinforcements. These union troops are straight off the line Washington DC and they're pretty green. It shows in this clash northeast the original battlefield only a few hours of fierce fighting Dick suffers around nine hundred casualties but Inflicts Fifteen Hundred on Union. Troops. This action marks the official end of the battle. In the middle of this deadly days long engagement at spots Vania courthouse Bobby Lee gets word that General Jeb Stuart has been killed at yellow tavern which had told you about in this episode's opening. It's a huge loss in the STOIC southern gentleman remarks. I guess they think of him without even. Bobby's had a rough several days. He's Lost Jeb and suffered nearly ten thousand casualties from sixty three, thousand man army. One confederate general remarks quote. Grant was wearing us out and starving US cold. He hammered out his continually. He knew we couldn't replace our men and that he could. Close quote. While that may be true. It's not like the army of the Potomac isn't taking heavy losses. EULESS has around eighteen thousand men on the casualty list by the end of the battle. Despite these casualties the blue. I. General Sticks to his plan. He means to break Bobby Lee's army and sack Richmond. You LASORDA's amid midnight march south on May nineteenth. As Army of the Potomac marches south southwest from spots of any courthouse, they continue to clash with the confederate army of northern. Virginia. Here's the thing ulysses dramatically outnumbers Bobby Lee. So the Union general wants to take advantage of that by forcing his confederate counterpart into battle on an open field. Bobby didn't get to be the number one general in the USA for nothing though. He keeps his behind nearly impenetrable defense works no matter where they are. From the safety of these lines, the King of spades is waiting for US grant mess up in leave part of his huge arm exposed. But as the confederates camp, just south of the North Anna, river about twenty or so miles north of Richmond Bobby Lee grows tired of waiting. He'll force ulysses to make a mistake. The Old Virginia forms his army into an upside down you with the curve on the river and the sides extending south in order for you listed attack this you he'll have to separate his army. Sending one portion to the east one to the West and one trying to cross the North Anna to attack the curve. euless falls for the trap not realizing the extent of Bobby Lee's plan ulysses orders an attack on the confederate position. You can guess how well that's going to end up the FEDERALS RIGHT For three days from May twenty four to twenty, six union troops assault the rebel work to no avail. You realizes he's been had and needs to find a way to wriggle out of this trap and keep moving south. But how you list has a bit of luck. Bobby Lee get sick nearly a month of fighting losing two generals and thousands of men starts to catch up with the seemingly indomitable rebel general. As bobby lays in his sick bed, he tells subordinates. We must strike them a blow. We must never allow them to pass again. The confederate field commanders failed to follow these orders. They don't put up a fight when you list build pontoon bridges over the North Anna River nor do the confederate's follow as ulysses gets his men off the field. You listen is men continue to creep south with the confederates Mirren their movements. Pieces. Of the two armies skirmish at Hawes shop. Top applaud him we creek. Bethesda church. And maddie decking creek. With a cigar in his teeth and a woodley knife in his hands almost constantly you list doesn't he is off his alternate goals breaking the confederate army and sacking Richmond? And he's getting pretty close to doing both from the North Anna euless head south. He'll need to cross the swampy slow flowing deep chicken hominy river and Hook up with Union General Ben Butler on the James River near Petersburg. From there the combined union armies can march north to Richmond. Bobby Lee has to prevent this now recovered from his stress induced illnesses. The brilliant tactician sees exactly what US grant intends to do and he can't let that happen. A May twenty ninth with just a hint of panic in his Genteel Virginia drawl Bobby Lee tells a staffer. We must destroy the Saami of grants before he gets to the James River. If he gets there, it will become a siege and it will be a question of time. By. Now Union General Phil Sheridan has returned from his deadly Radi mission and is linked up with ulysses again. And the US Lieutenant? General. Is thrilled to have phil back. On May thirty first ulysses orders fill in his calorie unit to take and hold a small crossroads time called cold harbour. Let me tell you about this town's you'll understand why you lists orders Phil to hang onto it quote at all hazards. Close quote. Cold Harbor sits about eight miles east northeast of Richmond from this spot euless can launch attacks against the confederate north of Richmond Oregon's Richmond itself or he can easily march south to reach the James. River. Basically. The world is at ulysses fingertips here, and the Cherry on top of this perfect position is that critical union supplies and reinforcement lines lie unobstructed at Ulysses back. So. Yeah. After Phil, Sheridan secures the town ulysses feeling pretty confident. He sends a message to his former boss Henry. Haluk back in. DC. Lee's army is really whipped. I may be mistaken but I feel that our success over Lee's army is already insured. Back. Well. I'm not sure Bobby. Lee. Sees it that way while ulysses gets over forty thousand reinforcements Bobby Lee has at least ten thousand soldiers join his ranks from the Shenandoah valley and Petersburg, and Bobby Lee immediately puts them to work building earthen works. Breast Works and logged parapets north South running line facing cold harbor. With chicken hominy, river, and swampland at their backs in a tangled mess of low growth brushing trees to their front. The confederates have a strong position. Late on June first US General George, meade orders and attack. The old snapping turtle wants his men to punch a hole in the confederate right and clear the way for union soldiers across the Chicago River as a curved self of the battlefield. Federal's lineup in the woods to launch their salt rebel artillery fires on them from their positions half a mile away. One new. Hampshire soldier writes in his diary quote we have been within range of the enemy shot and Shell for a long time, but now are near his infantry lines and hundreds of his bullets whistling wack among the trees about us. Rebel. Shells burst over our heads in the pieces come down among us or else riven tear. Favoring us with their falling branches. Close quote. The Union assault finally begins at six PM and after a few hours of hard fighting the federal troops push back the rebel lines just enough to secure the road to the hominy. They didn't punch a hole in the confederate works and costs about two, thousand, eight, hundred casualties but it's one item checked off the battle objectives list. The next day fighting continues between Blue Gray. Despite their numerical advantage union troops can't find a way through the strong confederate lines. Ulysses wants to break Bobby League right here right now. So he plans a coordinated don offensive on the confederate right hoping to crack the rebel lines before the oppressive heat can Stein his plan. Union troops spend the evening of June second preparing for battle. Some even pinned their names and addresses to the back of their uniforms in case they're killed. Damn. After eight straight days of fighting these seasoned veterans know well enough what's coming tomorrow? On sold reports, the Winnie here's the orders he's not too thrilled. I must confess that order was not received with much hilarity. There was some hooting at the brigade commanders by the soldiers but when it was ascertained that these officers themselves going to lead them in. There was no further hesitation. At four thirty a M single CANON INITIATES THE UNION ASSAULT Union soldiers charged the field guns blazing. Right away it's clear that this is a terrible idea. Neither Ulysses nor George me did enough recon to know that. Almost the entire field between union and confederate lines is riddled with zigzagging trenches full of armed rebel. Union troops have advanced to one trench capture. The man climb out of the trench only repeat the same process over again. Oh and they have to do this under withering enemy fire from the main confederate lines. Most regiments can only capture one, maybe two confederate trenches before getting stock within a few hours. General Winfield Scott Hancock Second Corps has lost eight colonels and suffered twenty five hundred casualties. Other cores report similar numbers, but the cantor back, there's no way to escape incessant enemy fire. Men. Crawford on their stomachs. Some US dead comrades as shields. Anything to find a way out of this mess. By noon ulysses calls off the assault in Union, soldiers stuck on the battlefield entrench as best as they can but continuous confederate fire inflict more casualties on the trapped blue coats. You can see that this attack was a mistake he wires Henry Haluk at two PM stating. Our loss was severe nor do I suppose the enemy to add lost heavily back? He doesn't know it yet but that's a huge understatement of the devastation from this morning's fight in only a few hours. His army suffered seven thousand casualties while. Acting. One, thousand, five, hundred. Even. Confederate generals can't believe the carnage around them once simply states quote. This was not war. It was murder. Close quote. George. Meade uses this incident to humble ulysses George rights to his wife I think grant is had his eyes open and is willing to admit now that Virginia and Lee's Army is not Tennessee Bragg's army. But Ulysses doesn't need much humbling twenty years down the line when you Lewis writes his memoirs he expresses regret for his poorly thought out attack. I. Have always regretted that the last assault at cold harbor was ever made. while. General has to make tough calls in his orders will inevitably caused the deaths of many of his men. There's usually an overall objective reached to justify those deaths. But not here a cold harbor. The June Third Union attack is the last main thrust of the battle. However, just like Mary's Heights in the eighteen, sixty, two battle of Fredericksburg confederate sharpshooters make a dangerous for Union ambulance cores to retrieve the wounded from the battlefield. The suffering lay under the scorching sun while ulysses, haggles with. Bobby, Lee to work out temporary ceasefire. Finally on the evening of June seventh after wounded union soldiers have been lying under the sun without food or water for almost four days mets are able to get to them. By then most had died from their wounds or exposure. About one, hundred, seventeen, thousand union soldiers and sixty thousand federal troops fired their weapons at cold harbor. EULESS had approximately thirteen thousand men wounded or dead while Bobby Lee counts about five thousand. Like the Battle of the Wilderness Bobby Lee can count cold harbor as a defensive, win. But the Virginia can't prevent the army of the Potomac from continuing its relentless march south. On June twelfth euless leads his men on yet another night March they slip out of their entrenchments and head south toward the James. River without Bobby Lee noticing. Like I said both of these generals are human and they make mistakes. Just like you lis- ordered an ill-fated attack on June third bobby Lee fails to react to his enemies movements. As a result, bobby lease leaving his comrade and our old creel Louisianan friend Pierre Gt regard dangerously exposed Petersburg. Now, a month ago, ulysses may have figured that he could push straight into Richmond from the North or the east. But the brutal defeat at cold harbor has killed any flickering hope of that plan. The only option left is for you list head south to Petersburg Hook up with Benjamin Butler take Petersburg then attack Richmond from the south. The worn out by his grueling deadly campaign ulysses has confidence. This plan will work in states. The key to taking Richmond is Petersburg. But the cigar smoking blue eyed military leader didn't get to be Lieutenant General of the US Army with only one plane his playbook. One of ulysses. Strengths is his ability to see the big picture. So instead of taking his whole arm to Petersburg on June twelfth he breaks off small pieces for a different mission. You listens a new force to Rabi Shenandoah Valley and smashed the depots there. He Tasks Phil Sheridan and the cavalry with destroying rail lines just north of Richmond. Andy lessees assigns himself with attacking Petersburg destroying its rail lines to Richmond. Keep Bobby Lee off his sent us feigns a movement toward the CSI capital in reality one corps of the army of Tomac is traveling to Petersburg via the Pamunkey. York James Rivers while the other four taken overland route. It's a super efficient troop movement which one confederate general will later call quote the most brilliant stroke in the campaigns of the war. Close quote. Now Petersburg sits on east flowing. River about nine miles west of where that river joins up with James and the ever dapper though now gray hair gt beauregard has set up breast works on the East and south sides of the city. Which means he lists will need to cross the James River if he wants to attack it. which he does. Sticking with the efficient strategies of this movement, some union troops take transport boats. The river while military engineers building two thousand, one, hundred, the Pontoon Bridge strong enough to stand forefoot title swells of the James. On June fifteenth the rest of the army safely crosses the southbank. So the James and heads West Petersburg President Lincoln is thrilled with these perfectly executed troop movements the Illinois rail splitter since. Ulysses telegram. I begin to see it will succeed God. Bless you all. Think way to impress the boss you lists. Gt Regard. Watch, the advancing federal army with growing dread, he's only got two thousand, five hundred men to defend Petersburg and bobby doesn't even know where the Union army is right now. This is not looking good for the old creel. At six PM on June fifteenth US General Winfield Scott Hancock and William Bali Smith. Launch an attack on the thinly manned confederate lines. There men easily take more than a mile of the line and sixteen, the fifty five mounted guns. Now, at this point, these guys should have realized just how few rebels are actually defending Petersburg's impressive breast works, but they don't when field and Baldi don't really get along. When fields old Gettysburg wound is acting up and Bali is sick. So instead of pressing their advantage, these two generals let their guys can't behind the captured lines and sleep in the next morning. That gives gt time to pull in reinforcements from a nearby fort bringing his forces up to a whopping five thousand, four hundred. But. Frankly GT's just glad to have a few hours to dig a new trench for his man. The native french-speaking confederate later states. Petersburg at that hour was clearly at the mercy of the Federal Commander who had all but captured it. Gt gets a telegram off Bobby. Lee and the Virginia General immediately start shipping reinforcements to Petersburg. Across the next two days more gray clad men join the fight and George. Meade orders several attacks Petersburg's eastern defenses. But. The Blue Coats hearts just aren't in it. Their assaults are feeble and cautious. One Union commander sees what's going on. He states quote. The men feel at present great horror and dread of attacking earthen works again. Close quote old snapping Turtle George Agrees, and reports to you lis-. Men are tired and he attacks have not been made with vigor and force which characterized are fighting in the wilderness. If they had been I think we should have been more successful. After World War One soldiers would call this shell shock in the twenty per century. We'd call it PTSD. But no matter its name, the men are tired of fighting. Gt moves his lines back as close to Petersburg, as he can, and the Union soldiers launched another fence on June eighteenth. It's a disastrous deadly failure. One artillery complains quote. The attack this afternoon was a fiasco of the worst kind I trust. It will be the last attempt at this most absurd way of attacking entrenchments by General Advance in line. Even the stupidest private now knows it cannot succeed. Close quote. You're right soldier. General, grant won't order another assault such as this. Since he suffered about ten thousand more casualties in the last four days of fighting you list knows he needs to change tactics. As Bobby Leroy is in full force in Petersburg the union general issues, new orders. We will arrest the men and use the spade for their protection until a new vein has been struck. So newly promoted Lieutenant General Ulysses s grant's overland campaign. Didn't go as he hoped. As ulysses pushed south from the rapid an river to the James River Bobby Lee forest, you list to attack Doug and confederate positions. And you know it's an odd reversal of what people usually think of how the civil war was fought. You listen the Union. Army have often been accused of waging war of attrition against the South get the opposite is true here the army of the Potomac huge losses at every battle Indian with over sixty five thousand casualties in seven weeks of fighting. Despite the staggering toll though ulysses isn't giving up, the general still plans to lay siege to Petersburg starve bobby Lee into an open battle but we'll sit on that for the time being next time we're heading west to follow General William to come to Sherman to Atlanta. History that doesn't suck as created and hosted by me Greg Jackson Researching Writing Greg, Jackson and sale Salazar production and sound design Josh Bady. Up. J.. B., audio design. Musical score composed and performed by Greg Jackson and Van. April for a bibliography of all primary and secondary sources consulted in writing this episode visit history that doesn't suck dot com. HDD is supported by Anti Patriotic Com forward slash history that doesn't suck. Josh Seattle and I are beyond grateful to you kind souls providing funding to help us keep going. Thank you and a special thanks to our patients whose monthly gift puts them at producer status will. Caldwell Jason. Carson's Keith Downer, Andrew Fortune Naughty bryce Hancock Brad. Herman Dax Jones John, Leech Jeffrey Moods and Brandon. Shah. Joining two weeks where I'd like to tell you a story.

Cima Bobby Lee ulysses George US Army Union US EULESS Richmond General George Meade Cavalryman General Jeb Stuart confederates Union Army Virginia Winfield Scott Hancock assault commander President Lincoln Robert e Lee Petersburg Philip Sheridan
Gettysburg with Jim Hessler and Eric Lindblade

Based On a True Story

1:19:04 hr | 10 months ago

Gettysburg with Jim Hessler and Eric Lindblade

"Hello and welcome to based on a true story, the podcast that compares your favorite Hollywood movies with history. Now if you're listening to this on the day, it's released then today July first marks the one hundred and fifty seventh anniversary of the battle of Gettysburg. That battle took place between July first in July third in eighteen, sixty three during the American civil war. So that's why today we're going to learn about the epic four and a half hour long film from Nineteen, ninety-three simply called Gettysburg to. To help us separate fact from fiction in the movie, I'm excited to be joined by Jim, Hessler and Eric Linden late. Jim and Eric are both. Gettysburg licensed battlefield guides, and are the CO hosts of the battle of Gettysburg podcast Jim has also written multiple books on the battle, including sickles, Gettysburg which one the Gettysburg Civil War Roundtables Book Award as the most outstanding work on the Gettysburg campaign. Before we bring Jim and Eric on the line. No, let's set up our game to truth and a lie. If you're new to the show, here's how it works. I'm about to say three things. Two of them are true, and that means one of them as a lot I ready. Okay, pay their number, one one percent of all battlefield casualties steering near American civil war were caused by bayonets. Number two winning the battle of Gettysburg did not guarantee victory for winning the American civil war. Number three. The Union planned the battle of Gettysburg to push the confederacy out of Pennsylvania. Got Him. Okay now as you're listening to our story today, your challenges to find the two facts scattered somewhere throughout the episode, and by a simple process of elimination. You'll be able to find out which one is alive. And of course we'll do a recap at the end of the episode to see. How will you did? All right now it's time to connect with Jim Eric to chat about the historical accuracy of. Gettysburg. After the opening credits, the movie sets up the battle of Gettysburg with some voiceover, according to the movie it in June of Eighteen, sixty, three General Robert E. in the confederate army of northern. Virginia, Invade Union territory with an army of seventy thousand men toward the end of June eighty thousand soldiers in the Union army head through Maryland, an independent in pursuit of the confederate army. Then the movie suggests the civil war has been raging for two years up until this point, and also that generally knows about a letter offering peace that is planned to be delivered to Abraham Lincoln the president soon after generally defeats the Union Army. Can you give us a little more historical context around the way? The movie sets up the battle of Gettysburg and the size of these two armies meeting in Pennsylvania Eric. Let's start with you. Yeah I think the movie. Sort of takes a very complex of and trust can distill it down as quick as they can I, think also. Sort of making Gettysburg seem almost the climactic point of the American civil war. And if you knew nothing of the war, he just watch the movie you'd think. The South is just winning victory after victory after victory, and certainly that's the case in Virginia. But elsewhere not so much. It's really by eighteen sixty three unmitigated disaster for the confederacy and a lot of areas so robbery Lee's army by this was to become the best hope the confederacy has. Lee is going to bring with him about seventy five thousand soldiers, the army that the GONNA numbering close to one hundred thousand, so they get the numbers a little off, but but for the most part these are to. Equally matched arms. Lease out number two three to one or anything like that so anything to add to the gym. A couple of things first of all before I answer a single question. I WanNa make it clear that I love this movie like a big sloppy shaggy dog, so even though it was going to seem to the listeners. You know that we're going to spend the next hour. Kind maybe bashing it a little bit Eric while I don't want to speak for Eric but I think Eric movie as much as I do. So having said that you know to Eric's point about complexity, Robert e Lee reality had a number of complex reasons for wanting to north wanted to take more out the south. He wanted to rob fresher away from threaten on points. Obviously, he wanted to live off the mortgage. And certainly I do think Lee was looking to fights in a battle. But the idea that they present in the movie you know a ladder has been drawn up. There's a ladder. Somebody's got in their pocket and so he's GonNa. Walk into Lincoln's office and put it on his desk. It's very dramatic. But there's no real credible credible evidence that that was you know significant factor in and we S- plans Derek is. For do we know reliable source that awesome about said letter offering peace is ever found. The reasons that we wants to invade, ours are more complex than was presented in the movie. Hollywood for you. Yeah, that's that's true. That's true. Now I know a lot of people. Listening to this may not there outside the United States can you give a little more geographical context around? At this point in the American civil war, where where are the army's? I mean obviously Gettysburg in Pennsylvania, but is that like right along the the lines of the north? And South is at this point in the war, or had those lines kind of shifted for where those were considered. It depends on how you define the south If you would look at based on areas that maintain the institution of slavery, then the border would be the Pennsylvania Maryland. But. Maryland remained loyal to the north. Even though they have the institution of Slavery surreally you then draw that line down to the border of Maryland and Virginia's sort of the. The dividing line of course by eight hundred sixty one northern troops occupy northern Virginia so you draw that line even further south so really look at what is these territorial borders? It really depends on where armies are operating win. There's not really sort of define geographic line that we think of today. You know again I would add to that in terms of Maryland. One of the things Robert de Lis trying to do both when he when he moves north in eighteen, sixty two, and only comes north again in eighteen, sixty three is trying to win. It also speak the hearts and minds of the Maryland population. Speaking of the movie we see Jeff Daniels Character Colonel Joshua Lawrence. Chamberlain and he's the Kernel of the Twentieth Maine Regiment. He gives a speech to some hundred and twenty men who were mutineers from the second main. And the movie explains that those one hundred and twenty men thought that they were signing up to fight with the second main only, but they actually signed a three year contract one of the men. Tells Chamberlain that he's fought in like eleven engagements up to this point, so you can tell it's not about I. don't care what contract is signed. Basically, they're done right there. They've done their fair share. They're done. They're not gonNA fight anymore. And so the army doesn't really know what to do with them. At least according to the movie portrays things. But apparently chamberlain is authorized to use whatever force necessary, including potentially shooting these one hundred and twenty men if they don't fight. There's this dramatic Dino's does great acting job. I think giving this speech to these men. He offers a chance at you. Don't have to join in the battle, but if we lose this fight, we're going to lose the war. So. Is this storyline that the movie portrays about the second main, and and that speech that Jeff Daniels character gives in the movie. The hard heads, so the second name that essentially did happen. You know these guys from the second main needed new home. It didn't happen though right on the eve of the battle. It happens I forget the exact middle of May I want to say or something like that I said Jeffrey Chancellor's Villa's. I remember correctly that notion of having to integrate is into the second main does happen. Again you know the movie. They portrayed as happening literally on the morning. July first of coercion that builds up the drama. How Chamberlain going to integrate all these all? He's hard some. The. Timing is definitely compress, but again you see that a lot in Hollywood so. What do you think Eric Chamberlain? A rousing speech like that. What are you saying? Maybe he did. Baby didn't all John. Chamberlain was ignited or a tour after the war, he gave a number of speeches in Nollie his career in academia, but also article for Governor of Maine So this is the guy that probably could give a good speech now whether or not he gets everybody together and gives them this. Sort of immoral of US sermon if you will. We. Don't know that, but certainly if anybody could give a speech, chamberlain was more than capable of if he was not. A young guy was noticed not being. Able to give a speech, if necessary. It's a good point whether it actually happened. It, certainly and character, but again you know the thing to which we touched on the in the opening this idea again. We're fighting the climactic battle. You know man. Oh, man, we lose this one. The war's over scenario now we're like what fifteen minutes into the movie and we've already heard that two or three times again, trying to set the stage you know and he's Super Bowl. Laver wins this one. It's going to take it all. That's definitely what I took away from that. At that point was the entire war hangs in the balance on this battle, especially after that speech, and I think Lee certainly fell a victory on northern soil. Could go a long way into possibly leading to confederate independent. Now were probably not gonNA. Have a you know George Washington meets Cornwallis at Yorktown type situation where the army surrenders. But there was political pressure Lake Administration, the summer and sixty three to in the war over two hundred thousand Americans had already died to this point and in April eighteen, sixty three federal drafts had been implemented in the north so. Many ways eighteen, sixty three in summer, is not that far removed from say nine, hundred, sixty eight over the Vietnam conflict. The war is kind of hanging else little bit, so if we can win a victory in the north, certainly would increase the odds poss with southern independence, but I wanNa then count. Tamp down the Liens Gettysburg. This war's over. That's not the case. Yeah exactly what you know, what I always tell people on tours began it would more than anything. It would be potentially potentially forcing Lincoln from a political perspective again getting back to the movie you notice opening of we're gonNA destroy the army and put a letter on his DASS. It Oh isn't isn't practical really in eighteen, sixty three or really at any other I'm Lawrence aspects. You know you arnie's quote on poking destroyed. The army of foaming even if they skinny the numbers down a little bit of metal. So. It sounds like generally was going for a huge moral victory. Almost you know winning this battle in the north. Correct me if I'm wrong, but almost hoping that this moral victory might help push the north to almost sued for peace I mean not necessarily right away or or any of that, but get that ball rolling. If people are starting to be tired of the war than maybe this can help. Further that cause does that sound like maybe the storyline there I think that's the best case scenario I mean certainly people in the north as you said are tired of war. The Democrats were obviously pressuring Lincoln to You know to get out of it which you see in the subsequent election. Let's probably best case scenario even in a worst case scenario if Lee can. Deal military victory or defeat the army, the mic Lee can even just disrupt the Union army's plans for the summer, and an alliance says that in a couple of occasions Gettysburg. People didn't do anything for the rest of the summer and even from. Perspective perspectives Mac and be considered victory I. Think we have to look at what victory is from south. The North has to win the south just. Doesn't have to lose, so the metrics are different. There in the south doesn't have to win this. They don't lose and so I think Lee. Certainly looking at that, keep in mind making sixty three Pennsylvania is the second largest state in the union. A magical, the political impact of losing a battle in the second largest. In your nation. How's that going to affect Lincoln? Say Next November with his election, so we can see. Play out and often I tell people until I. You don't have to win world battlefield. You can just as easily win it politically and I think that's really what Lee is looking at eighteen, sixty three. The odds of winning militarily are down, but the odds of winning political. You're certainly up in his favor when he embarks the for campaign. That's another common I always make too about the importance of Pennsylvania. What I remind people on Tours is that you know Lee Captures Harrisburg or not? South? Pennsylvania in eighteen sixty three. That's a big deal. If he captured Harrisburg today, he could keep it. We don't want it, but in eighteen sixty was a big deal. Heading back to the movie. Sam, Elliott's character General John Buford. He's leading his coury near the outskirts of Gettysburg, and he's the first to come across the confederate army as they're marching the movies dialogue says that with the number of men they see the confederate army from afar. They thought they were headed for Harrisburg, but there's too many troops to be a raiding party. So they determined that Lee has turned and there's a brief mentioned from General Buford where he mentions taking two brigades of men into town. But then right after this. Then there's some text onscreen and puts us about fourteen miles from Gettysburg in tiny town Maryland as chamberlain and his men in the Union army arrive in that town. Then we see General Buford and his men arriving in Gettysburg, but they don't stay in town. Buford leads his men to farmland just outside town where he surveys what I can only assume I. Don't remember the movie ever mentioning this, but I'm assuming he's surveying this that he is predicting. This is going to be the site of a battle like this is the site of the battlefield. He's kind of looking at it ahead of time. So the idea that I get from the movie as I'm watching this here is that the Union army basically arise I, and they position themselves around the town of Gettysburg so they can have a strategic foothold in the area when the confederate army gets there. Is that true what I can tell people about the movie versus story? Is I do? The basics of this movie are accurate sizing basics, others colleagues who disagreed with me and say my God. No none of it's accurate. That's not true they. Or accurate, so what really happened? He'll rise in the Gettysburg area on June. Thirty s geese sees confederate's approaching from the West some guys. Eric might be familiar with. Confederate approaching from the last that you'd sides sort of break awesome. Combat on the thirtieth. What you get is you realize is in fats are massing to the west of jets, verge, and likewise the confederates now. Something is going on, and he's and that's kind of what happens, and that's going to set. The stage for the is is gliding on on July. First in reality, one of my biggest grievances with the movie is really none of that is really explained in the movie i. mean they then sorted then segue into. These ulcer Walter, Taylor talking about apple butter and stop Jackson. Buttermilk can and all this stuff you? The movie makes same like confederate's are going into. The depressants. Michigan owns supplies and all that stuff I guess is sentenced. To the other part of your question. One thing is I? Say you know we'll see marriage says I think the movie kind of overplays or fighting a high growl, Buford his thumping his chest, and say in the high ground, but they're going to have the high ground in that that's a powerful mythology, because that is pervaded itself in the full extent, literature people come to the the battle. A battle was fought for the high ground, not any high ground but Sonic Ralph. About so again I'll go back leg opening the basics right and I think they kind of mess up a whole lot of details, the challenge, the movie Gettysburg is how all over the place the time line is. You go from daylight darkness the combined things, so it doesn't really give you a glow by blow. County might take with John Buford is does he probably notice the high ground around Gettysburg? Absolutely, he's a professional older. But I think Buford's more concerned with the ten roads that intersect in round the town. Way Networks are criminal in a military campaign. He's also in communications of General John Reynolds the left wing commander of the army of Tomac so he's getting information back gathering information as well. Are They Buford under sensors confrontation, but I don't think he's saying Gettysburg's. We're going to put our. FLAG GROUND WE'RE GONNA. Make Our stand here. July first very fluid situation. It's really not until the mid to late afternoon. That really it's looking like this grand battles going to be fought here again he's. Very well could have just been a very sharp engagement, west and north of the town July first the army's withdrawal. We talk about something else. That doesn't happen. To that point, one of the greatest fallacies I think this movie is. You can come away from this movie thinking John Buford Zeal. Hancock Joshua Chamberlain, run the army of the Potomac in reality. There's a guy named George Meade. Who is commander of the Union army and by June thirtieth July first. You know really well into the late afternoon early evening for me had not decided where he was going to fight that battle. There's things about folly back Maryland along the line. Pigeon and things of that nature, but Gettysburg is an important crossroads only say union army, but frankly for the confederates to that's one of the reasons why the consider your comment. Acerbic because. They're moving over Apple Jacks. You know like like they seem to be moving. I saw the movie I'm not. School threw throughout that caveat, every ten or fifteen minutes in case, somebody tunes, delayed or something like. Gettysburg is the movie we love to hate and hate the love. Yeah, let's get superfan lies in shoutout for that. That was exactly at the movie. We love to hate love. We love you license. You're listening out there. It's great. They know you can pick it apart, but still in love it for what it is like just knowing that you know, it's not gonna be. Entirely accurate by any means, but you know it can still be a a good movie as a movie. Let's be clear out something. We didn't say this is a good movie. We said we loved it. We didn't necessarily say. Square block through. Fair point good good catch. I appreciate that good catch. You're talking about how the actual battle started. In the way, the movie shows this. We're on the confederate side and we see a messenger deliver a message to Martin Sheen's version of generally that's general. Hell is going to be taking his men into the town of Gettysburg to get some shoes generally clarifies that he doesn't want any conflict. Until all their troops are consolidated in the Messenger assures him that don't worry general. Hill doesn't expect any opposition. They're just some local militia, not going to be a big deal. And then soon after General Long Street arrives, tells generally that he saw coury, so it's not just local militia, and as they're talking, we can hear some artillery firing in the distance. Generally asks for General Heath. Who they say is the most forward commander I believe in the camera cuts to Gettysburg where now we have union troops cannons at the confederate soldiers. General Buford that we talked about earlier. He's watching from top in town and he smiles as he remarks the you know. He's got the best ground positions you talking about the high there again. And that the confederates only hitting with. So as I was watching this. I got the idea that okay. The confederates are going to choose need supplies. You know they. They need these things and they. Were not expecting the union soldiers there they almost got the lack of a better term ambushed, and that's that's basically how all started is that how the battle of Gettysburg actually started? Yes, and no the battle. Gettysburg is what typically. Military historians virtues a meeting engagement simply put the army's run into each other collide. The idea that the movie kinda creates the Henry heeds just sort of. Baubles into union troops. Heath was aware of a union presence of some kind in his front today before. Now. What the nature of that is bat was to be seen. I always like to tell people that on June thirtieth. He sends one brigade towards Gettysburg. On July first, he sends entire seven thousand man division. So. It's well as trust but verify situations. And what we then saying, you know the of long streets already there awfully long shirt doesn't arrive on the battlefield Gettysburg until. noon. Though confederates already driven union troops back. So that kind of once again the odd little time wine the have, but it does kind of make it seem confederation this kind of ambling into this unbeknownst to them when the reality is, they have a better sense of it now. They'd have perfect. They you know chlorine outlined. The shoe thing is pervasive in remember the movie. The movie Gettysburg is based on a Pulitzer Prize. Winning novel the killer angels, which dates back to the mid nineteen seventies, and although I wasn't around back then. Sort of an earlier era, the idea that battles fought overshoes was more more pervasive and sort of the enlightened era that we live in today. We kind of understand You know all these other side. So it's not surprising to me that they bring shoes into the movie script, I would almost be surprised if they didn't do it again. Some of the other basics are generally. There was Henry Heath leading confederate advance. Yes, he go bumbling into it. No, he'd surprised. Yes, and a lot of that first thing. They do a lot of else coping again things. Six eight hours do occur in the movie, just kind of happened with one or two currier, these sitting out source and two messengers come up and kind of explain whole thing. So again a little bit. A little bit of telescoping. The first day in the movie is probably my least favorite part because I don't think they do justice, too. Big Or importance, a real first day was, but you know I guess when you're already talking a four hundred sixty minute movie something Scott and Grow and that kills me because. I am a first day. Guy That's by favorite day of the ballots have favorite day of a battle. But you know it's. To be people. The first day may respects, but Y- casualties inflicted by the two armies. If the first day was a battle just on its own. It would rank around the thirteenth bloodiest battle, the American civil war. Just Day. And so I think he does get overlook. It's not this little skirmish. I mean it's arguably some of the heaviest fighting the battle gangs. Gettysburg takes place in the first day, but the one thing that movie I stay, I think does do is make star out of John. Buford you've heard was not again. If you go back to the literature of the nineteen seventies nineteen, sixties, nineteen fifties job new third was not the quote. Unquote big started yesterday, and so influential e. this movie has really indoctrinated a generation of historians again. His students that John Buford is the Niamh John Do for saves the Union. Not Buford in any way, shape or form Sam Elliott does a great job for trading. Things Sam Elliott has urged Virgil herb into stone. Point the you're looking at influence out. Does this movie influence people and it's certainly given a lot of people and I'll see the impression that job you safe day on July first got his. You know we like to say that. Maybe partially trope. It's a little more complicated than that. was there anybody who was the hero of the day? If Not Buford, what else can say is, there's a tendency. To say this. Is the hero the event? There's multiple euros. The Union victory at Gettysburg is a team effort. It's collaborative. and. With Buford do I think he did this overwhelmingly heroic job here, Gettysburg no I don't. Doesn't mean that he's not competent. He did his job and sometimes in a critical situation like that. That's the most important thing. Do Your job. Does. He really go above and beyond not necessarily, but he didn't have to. He did what he was asked to do. And he did it able, and about the time needed to get control the battlefield. You're talking about heroes. We could talk about the the common enlisted man the Ben Crippen World. You know shaking their fists at those approaching rebels as they're coming in. Certainly, the Union Victory Gettysburg is a team effort, but there's a lot of difficult members of our team, and not everybody brings their their a game. Daddy's Burgan you see some examples about July first with guys like. Francis are low, but I think of Winfield Scott Hancock's rise to prominence and on the the real afternoon evening July first is the union forces were rallying on Cemetery Hill? It was anti who arrived on the seal and health. Rally the troops and you know. Don't really see so much vadym! What you do, see a lot of anti taxes. We don't subs AIDS earlier. You're talking about how the confederate soldiers pushed the union soldiers back initially, and we get that sense in the movie I. Think some of the initial reports that generally gets in the movie are that the Union soldiers are retreating back into Gettysburg, and so he orders artillery to fire in the Hale. He sends Major Taylor to deliver message to general you'll that. He wants general to take the hill beyond the town, if practical, so they can get some higher ground, and give me go back to that same sort of concept of higher ground, and he wants that tale to be captured by nightfall. Meanwhile, we see general long streets mentioned to generally something along the lines of how their strategy has always been to act defensively to keep the army intact, but now we can see that generally wants to initiate the offensive. You know you've got the enemy on the run. You don't stop now. Keep going. And Long Street reminds lead. May Have pushback to core, but we got five more coming, so is it common for the confederate army to operate with more of a defensive mindset like we get that idea here in the movie? And then it was changed generally decides. We got him on the Ron. We're going to keep pushing out much of that actually happened. By Gettysburg, Lee's been command around a year of the army and all the Virginia. If we look in his campaigns, his first campaign with the army the seven days around Richmond. It's primarily offensive for the confederates hurling their forces that George McClellan's army to drive from the gates of Richmond. After success seven days Lee begins to move into northern Virginia. We Have A. Initially with stars, tactical fence, but really strategic offensive at second MANASSAS. Lee then bills that victory goes into Maryland once again offensive actions. You'll fight primarily defensive battle. At Antietam a more out of necessity than any desire on his part. There is the great. Defensive Fredericksburg then lay turned around a few months later and on the offensive again a chance to fill so lee is an offensive minded general Lee is not a guys. Sit Back and give the enemy the initiative. He's GonNa take it to his opponent, and that's what he does, and that's offer leads LE- into Pennsylvania and summer relations sixty three. Sedan we're allowed this comes from is again going back to the novel the killer angels. One of the primary sources that Michael Sharon used. James Long streets memoirs from Manassas to addicts. Maybe, some folks are familiar with along long story long straight was a very controversial individual in south after the war, primarily for political reasons, but also because long straight after the fact, when on record is criticizing Lee. And so one of the things. Long straight says in his writings. Is that Cryer to beginning this? You know this great raid. The Pennsylvania Long Street alleges that he Li essentially agreed on. We would only fight the battles and things bat nature, and it's because of the assertion by long, street in his memoirs that carries over then into Shiraz novel, and then ultimately Robert Maxwell script. It was sort of really position the grades. Dramatic conflict is a confederate Eddie's. Is this supposed levers? Long Street thing we wanting to attack long street, wanting to fight on the defense. I'm not saying that didn't happen. I think there's some internal historical evidence to suggest it did. But what I think is a problem with the movie. In that regard is really sort of or trade, and again the novel to I should have, but really sort of portrays Robert. Lee is almost an unhinged of session to attack. You know the is all knowing long street. He knows where all the Yankee core are. Any knows when a high ground is, you know lease. Just kind of a lot of ways almost is off his rocker in just obsessed on making these suicidal attacks and again that is now very. Masive in the Gettysburg Nephrology. People here who say Jesus lives Lee so crazy. Widen any listen to launch. you know, and that's sort of again become. One of these things inserted a demon. Property Lee the guy who used to be the Mardell ran and beyond reproach now it's very fashionable Nachtwey and the killer angels. In the movie daddy's Berg later all for sure. Yeah, that's very different narrative than I expect than I thought when I saw the movie, and it was just expected that they were even more defensive like because they did. Stumble upon each other the way the movie goes in like they weren't expecting this, and so it was oh well now we just gotTa. Survive. Before, we go on with that. I JUST WANNA. Call Out Internet. Trolls have accused me in the past of lost sky. You know for quote unquote. Defending Lee I'm from New York. I'm not a loss caused guy. I'm not defending league, but what's the truth is the truth that I like long. Street but again it I think. I think three things away from this movie elevates the role of John Buford and elevates the role Joshua Chamberlain in the movie really serves to rehabilitate chains long straights Asian jams. This offensive Genius Long Street himself at number of battles are he was very strong offense, but he ended trees him as a guy. Just Watson fights at simple. Lee is not unhinged Gettysburg but I. Think Leeann last year while he has been successful. There's a lot of caveats those victories. He dropped. Yes, he drives clown from around Richmond, but he does destroy McLellan's army number opportunities voss way to do that. at times during the seven days second Manassas. The Union escapes back to Washington Fredericksburg to get back. Cross Rambam can't crush them and it chances Ville. They cross back the river again. He doesn't get to deliver a decisive blow. He's looking for so that's what Lee is really I think looking for is decisive. Blow, liaise, `let's Go and beg here. He's not looking for just another tactical victories, looking for a decisive strategic victory, and that's why I, think drives a lot this thinking. Now let's take a step back from some of the strategy side of it and almost get Kinda put in the context of what this was like because it's very different from. Thinking will a lot of people today we'll see movies and a lot of movies are going to be like world war. Two movies or something like that and battles are just going all the time right and at the end of the first day in this in the movie we see. Everybody stops fighting like it's OK ended the first day the fights over. We're going to figure out what we're going to do. The next day soldiers gathered around the campfire. Is that kind of the way that the this battle wins that they would take a break at night and then let's start back up nine in the morning. Maybe little exaggeration there on my part, but. What I find is the general public that I deal with often sayings fighting you know fighting ends at nightfall, because of Gentlemen's agreement, you know these old fashioned gentlemen, and shake hands, and agreed to greet defy now site until until morning and of course. That's not accurate. What you do see in general is diminished combat at sundown, because they don't have the technology to fight it by for the most part, the fighting does and when it gets start, because you can no longer see you can no longer your formations and things of that nature. Now again there are examples of nightime sliding during the civil warriors, even as Battle of Gettysburg is seventy to show up. Yeah I think at times the civil war. Has Been. It always kind of glosses over the brutality. Of the war, we know the numbers, but we don't think about just how brutal it was and I. Often tell people tours. With civil war needs. Is a scene similar to the opening scene of saving, Private Ryan. Warn just unvarnished, ugly nature, guys, brain, getting splattered hearing bones, cracking limbs, getting blown off. That's the battle of Gettysburg. It's not just this you get shot. Say something profound before you die. It's you're getting hit in the arm. By fifty eight caliber musket balls corner shoulder pieces. That doesn't get portrayed. Really Gettysburg for the most part is relatively bloodless as a movie. It's sanitized version. I think that really sticks in. People's mind is how they view. The civil wars war combat It's every bit as ugly. Modern combat is not uglier frankly. That's a great point and the problem is and I'm even thinking this as we record this, you know the history channel just ended last night three part series on grant. The other the other side of that coin is often when Hollywood whether it be movie or even documentaries, and frankly documentary makers should know better, too. Many of these civil war battles movies though also often look like you know. The wwe always tell people in a movie. It's an. Every civil war battle in a movie will end with a fistfight. You know, forget about the Napoleonic linear tactics and formations, every civil and you see at Gettysburg. At least you know little, round top PICKETT's charge, but every civil war movie ends with guys. Just, running into each other and screaming and punching and club each other with muskets about and of course they did have that. Did. Have that realize, but I would love to see a movie whereas for God's Sakes once we just do both the. TOPIX because that's what the civil law. And you can blaze away at each other with the rifle muskets for twenty minutes on film s you want, but again every battle doesn't end with guys just running and jumping on top of each other, and kick each other in the groin, and all that stuff also began it or you see a couple unfortunate saints. Eddie Star in the movie I should say. Now that you say yeah is like you. You see them charging and okay. Now now it's the phase of the battle where we put on the bayonets and get close combat and okay. Now it's the phase of the battle where. Know. You're beyond the the van at all right now I guess, let's let's go at it. You know and I hadn't thought about that until you mentioned it and I'm glad you mentioned the bayonet, because that's what people think of how you would fight. One percent of all battlefield casualties inflicted during the civil war. One percents was inflicted by bayonets. Allow. I would imagined that'd be a lot more. They never close. He'll usually you didn't get close enough or in the mid. If you do have hand to hand combat, frankly cracking guy's skull open for butter your rifles lot easier stabbed him. And I think that's once again. Go back to this point. The civil war people want to sort of warm and cuddly war. It's not. It's it's ugly. It's brutal and so it's in civil wars how we want the war to. As opposed to what it actually was. Again you see examples in the movie Gettysburg. The part of that too permeates from I think the whole brother against brother, saying being overplayed and again the movie daddy's bird, although there's some great scenes it. Oh the notion of Hancock in armistead, you know. Did these guys know each other? Yes, were they friends? Yes, did they spend the entire battle of Gettysburg mooning over each other and crying over each other like they do in the movie, No but again you know you sort of set up a novel and then a movie. Scrap of you know the guys on each side. You're almost like brothers and they're crying. Crying over each other and you know, screw the fighting I'M GONNA go over there under a flag of truce. Just see you know kind of thing and and things like that and again it. All Bill SORTA perpetuates this idea that they would say quote. Unquote Gentleman's or he fought by guys who if they were brothers doggone that they could ben close enough? That's something that I think from the civil war as a whole. It's a lot of people. See that as it was you know. Friends fighting against friends and family against family, and so I wonder I'm thinking out loud here if you know they're kind trying to. Portray almost that overall civil war aspect of a lot of these people knew each other on both sides, and so if they weren't fighting against each other will be friends, and so they're trying to find characters in there in the movie to portray that aspect. Of overall a lot of that is true. They did know each other they did serve together in Mexico. They did go to west point together, but two and a half years into the war you know. Are they really saying? Hey, Eric over on the other side did on thinking. They're planning tactics and strategy and stuff like that and again we got it. You know it's not a documentary. It's Hollywood. It's sabotaging characters and you know from Jerry. Does that amber, so say something nice about. We talk and I think the movie reinforces the idea that the civil war in many ways is. The Grand Kiro epic an American history. And I think it's something that you know. Almost you had written by the Greeks of most in Gettysburg. Climactic moment so you're trying to find think about Greek epics. There's these little lessons that are trying to be totally greater issues at play, and that's what we we do so subconsciously with Gettysburg so warned certainly the movie. Gettysburg just reinforces that do I think handcock thinking about armistead durn's battle, absolutely not and Hancock, would you everything in his power to absolutely Nyah late armstead his troops, they come to us from. There's no quarter going to be given here and ours. That would do the same to handcuff. Friendship out the window. Continuing on with the battle, as far as the movie is concerned, we get onto day to which would be Thursday July second, eighteen, sixty three, and this is where we see general Lee is ordering his troops at the beginning of the day. And that's when they start to realize you know there's this ridge that runs around Gettysburg. Right and we're starting to get this idea that okay. Here's going to be another big part of the battle, and at the end of the Ridge. There's two large hills. Let around top in big round top. According to the movie there's no union troops on those. And So lead decides to order his men to attack those two hills. There's a line of dialogue in the movie where Lee Tells Long Street that. He wants this to be the final battle of the war Ryoji. Yeah exactly you know, so he he half expected general meat and the bulk of the Union army to be gone by the time they woke up in the morning that this was not gonna be a big conflict after all. Lee doesn't know this in the movie, but as viewers we get to see chamberlain. His men are given orders to defend the hills, and they're told that you're the last line of defense so similar type of storyline that we had earlier where okay this entire war rests on and okay well, if the entire war rests on this battle, you guys are the last line of Defense on these hills, so therefore it just adds those steaks to defending these two hills. So how much of that strategy that we see where the confederate to try to take the two hills essentially trying to? As movie explains it get around the union positions and. Defeat them from from that angle. How much of that strategy was actually at play? Liaise try to driving troops off of a hill. It's just not little round saw. It's so Terry Hill. Center Union line the movie. compresses and greatly simplifies the confederate plan on July second. There's a lot that's left out that I think. Once again, you gotta cut things out, and it's not documentary, but you know I think this idea that Lee is looking to July, second to the day that he so tired of war and violence that the only way to end it by inflicting immense amount of carnage on opponent. Yes, there's a lot goes on. There's a guy we adore named Dan sickles. That's never really talked about the plays. A role in July second long shirt gets to lay get into position There's an attack on the northern end of the line. Ron culp sold cemetery. Hill doesn't really get talked about so it is a very simplified view, but lease objective on July second is cemetery, Hill and cemetery rich. He says himself is report would agree on that and so what what Lee does, which that again the movie Kinda Sorta gets right what lead does. He does direct Long Street to basically attacked union laugh with an idea of they driving up and dislodging the union forces. From Cemetery Hill cemetery rage so little round top. By itself is never specified as as an objective. What happens though? The Guy that are mentioned union general. Dan Struggles from New York. Without orders from general need moves forward in kind of reshapes and takes the whole union less legout, -sition so long streets back does begin at about four o'clock in the afternoon. The Union last slide doesn't look really the way we expected to look or the way George. Mean expected it looked. So long straight goes, INTO ACTION Really with a lot of. Chaos and confusion surrounding. What's going on on the Union last? which again you know, it was going to happen in warfare anyways, but while all this is going on Chamberlain's commanding officer. Strong Vincent, who we see briefly in the movie. Vincent decides he is going to occupy little round top, and put the twentieth into position there as the confederates are now moving around the union last Zeh, and upcoming or little round top, and yes, they tried to dislodge the twentieth so again. Part is accurate to you know to that extent, but again the idea that anybody who's really looking at little round top. It's okay if you roll up to twentieth, a all flying is GonNa is an and the whole army is going to be on the road on. That wasn't happening, and frankly it would have been totally unrealistic and cross. You know one of the highlights in the movie. For many years. People came here. They wanted to see where Chamberlain thought they wanted to save. Thought. Need greatly elevated. The status of the twenty is hanes. It also cinematic perspective it's it's various active. It's just not all that accurate. Alabama's route another county outsource source. Somebody bashes me there. We're not trashing chamberlain I like. Joshua Glenn I liked the. Name. Could Chamberlain story is he is told to hold his ground. Any holds his ground acid story. He's era. Let me say that again. Joshua Chamberlain is a here. It just doesn't win the battle of Gettysburg single-handed. Could Kinda SORTA come. Back. You mentioned sickles moved the left flank. was that something that he did because he knew about the confederate positions, and and kind of anticipated that, or was that almost like just a pure coincidence just happened upon that while they could argue with that for a hundred and sixty six whatever year we're up to. The long story short is. Thought. The Peach Orchard, which again is an important position at the Gettysburg battlefield, which doesn't really play into the movie at all, but each orchard along the Evans for road cycles thought that would be a better position for his troops and artillery. He also did. Thank confederates we're going to attack is swank, and because of that people's for there's some some merits singles argument, but he does it without orders from general meade and that really disrupts so out. Out of general fans, which again you don't tell you the movie you know that's a big dramatic reason. Why Strong Vincent the Twentieth Maine End up going a little round top, and you don't get any of that drama in the movies that would be kind of the deal. They mentioned that in the Basel that we that would maybe interesting. Onscreen land sickles screwed up. We gotTA. We gotta go out there and they really don't do that. And Desire Again I love Dan segments to see Sehgal's on the big screen echoing what Jim said about the twentieth, Maine and Chamberlain what they did was incredibly heroic on July second. But over time they've oma spin. Mythology is there was deified it's not just winning the battle by making their stand and making their charge. They win the battle of Gettysburg by doing so the Union wins the civil war. Therefore, we're able to become the nation. We Are you know. Basically you can draw a line out from little round top. All the way to you know if it wasn't for chamber will be speaking. German right now. That of course leads to blow back as well. There's an entire cottage industry of people now. That just Bash Chamberlain all the time. You know which is unfair. Never said he was the great heroes battle. He never asked throughout. Others have made him that, but never did it himself, and even if he did embellish a little bit in his post, war memoirs guess what every Civil War Guy who wrote a memoir embellishes record. That's what human beings do, and it's so so yes, Zach said there's cottage industry that likes to bash. Chamberlain and you know what you're not gonna get that from, us. 'cause we, we're not, we're not. We all we all WanNa be hero of the story, we all. And and I think what happens with Chamberlain. Of all characters in the movie chamber on I think is the most relatable to the average filmgoer. I don't know what it's like to be. Robert I didn't graduate second. Class. A West Point I. Don't know if that's like. I can relate to a college professor. I can relate to a teacher and I think what Shabelle and symbolizes for people is the hope that if you were in a desperate situation that you could rise to the occasion? And make a difference. And, so that's. Why people identify so much chamberlain more so than I think other characters in the movie, but it's a great story, you know. I mean a year before the battle chambers teaching philosophy and religion at Bowdoin College in Maine. Chain was not the only citizen soldier. We have battlefield. In fact, the majority of them were. But sharing. Just finds himself. Historically the right place right time that people are drawn to. Why you mentioned earlier not to get too far outside this movie in particular, but when you mentioned saving private Ryan and the mention of Chamberlain being a teacher, while the hero in Saving Private Ryan Tom Hanks character, he's also a teacher, and it makes him very very relatable. It reinforces the idea of. I'm doing a job. I'm not looking to be a hero and doing the best I can with the hand that was dealt to me and sometimes that's all we can do in license happens on a battlefield. Sometimes you get a good position other times you know. And sometimes it's just a very fickle difference between the two. Very well said. Moving onto the last day of the battle as far as the movie is concerned July third, of course, they wouldn't have known when the sun went up that that was going to be the last day. At least as far as movie is concerned, it doesn't seem like they have any idea that is going to be the last eight a battle out dinner up to you, but somebody say that doesn't Garnett or some. This is going to be the last day so. The movie guys are. All soldiers news giving the final day because early in more, the second ominous music was piped in over the battlefield to let them know this is a serious day. They need to get their heads in the game. My favorite part of the movie. Along long planning on July. Third is my favorite part of the movie. Is it Andrea percent accurate again? Probably not it's my favorite part is movies. Don't be dissing the ominous music. I like that. But as the movie explain things at seminary rage, generally orders General Long Street to take general Pickett's and laid a charge to the heights in the center, and the plan is to split the federal. Line Long Street says there are three federal core up their their well entrenched, and his men are going to sustain like fifty percent casualties. Little later, he flat out tells me that he believes this attack is gonNA fail. He says this mostly because the men will have to walk a mile over open, they're going to be under constant enemy fire the entire time. But Lee doesn't agree. He says he's never left. The field in command of the enemy retreats, not an option. We're GONNA. Win This. They have command of the high grounds, but in the long slope in the center. They're gonNA break. That's what Lee insists right? He insists that general Pickett's their fresh. They haven't engaged in battle yet, so he's confident that they're going to prevail. And movie takes us to the Union side where Chamberlain's men are relieved by Colonel Rice's Zeman and the movie explains. This as an order to give Chamberlain's men, the well needed rest from the previous day's fighting. Of course, they're asked to move right to the center, which from a moment ago in the movie, it's exactly where General Pickett's GONNA attack, and as I was watching this, I was like okay. This has to be a Hollywood moment where this is just to incidental that for this to be real right that chamberlain men were ordered to rest by moving exactly where. The confederates plan to attack. was at Hollywood moment, or is that actually how it happened? That's Hollywood moment now again it's it's been a long time since I've read the novel, but I'm pretty sure they more or less replay that in the novel and he just point that out. 'cause people like to blame the movie. The movie is following the playbook. It's novel. You know fairly closely, but now you're right it it. Chamberlain's moved on the morning of July third. He's not on little round top. He is moved closer to the center of the Union line, but he's not any you know in the movie. They got put Jeff Daniels stick. Have, you know he's not anywhere near that in reality and you'll notice to you. Don't see the Twentieth Maine. Citing you don't see. And his brother fighting. They're just kind like hanging out the whole time. This is going on so. They from A. Literary me after tile. These people together you can have this great hero chamberlain, just watching from afar, so it's a way to kind of put a bow on it, and but you're there on some Terry Ridge. There's not really close to the angle where they're at so that you will be licensed tank in there but But you know as hey I've never written a Pulitzer. Prize winning novel. So who am I to criticize Michael Sheriff throughout? Thank right yeah. Well! That's a great point that it is following the the novel side, and not as much the historical, so you think from each iteration. It's going to get a little bit further from what actually happened. Yeah. You know not what gets right to some of it you to some of your kind of your introduction to this segment. To what I think, they get right is I do think long street was skeptical about these plants that day. What I don't think they get ride. Is You know again in the movie? The we'll go from ominous music kind of mystical music, mystical music kind of places. Lease stares off into space. Amend just kind of absent mindedly says in the center they will great. No, no robbery Lee thought the what were and what they don't convey is how much he relied on his artillery. He's thought his artillery, but break up the union defenses and therefore make it possible for a lot of long. Long St Century to to Reach Cemetery Ridge fellow. We know it didn't happen. We know the Union. Juan save all the cards and letters for the folks who think I'm going lost ause again because I'm not the point being that the movie just as does a disservice I. Think the property. Leave again as I said earlier. This is a moment where animation seem on in might be a bad idea, but the the real Robbie. Lee Thought with coordination between infantry and artillery, but work and I. DO think we'll on streets up. Does that said I think that part move deaths in other movie? And I think there's sort of dialogue between the two like I said. It's my personal favorite part. Option we view what becomes was Pickett's charge with the with the genius of hindsight. We know it's GonNa, fail so therefore because it failed and too bad idea well, no! I, actually argue I think Lee is actually thinking somewhat logically on July third with the options that he's given. Doesn't mean they're good options. But I, don't think it just this attack the centers and they'll break I. Just know it. God's will. As Lee would say I think it it. It doesn't serve the way because I. Think Lee does think through it logically. We didn't entire episode on July third. What was Lee thinking? Why does he make the? Attack he does and and I. Think you know it's a lot more complex the movie? MAKES OUT TO BE. As I recall it the way the movie is describing it basically. He thinks that the forces at the center are going to be much much less. You mentioned the artillery I think the movie does mention that as well that they want to do a barrage of artillery fire, and then they're going to send. It's called pickets charged, but there's a long streets Trimble Pettigrew and pick it in the movie and his ideas that they're going to be able to break through I. Think the movie listed like fifteen thousand men and so. From that perspective thinking of. If. He's assuming that there's you know five thousand. You're sending fifteen thousand men. The logic there. At least in my mind, it's like okay well. This might actually work. And you know I don't know if Sheri used this. As a sore spot lease, military secretary wrote after the war. That was basically what they were trying to do that. You know initially they were looking at maybe attacking slang again, because a lot of things happened in the morning of July third Lee calls off, and then they started to look for another week void where they got Cemetery Ridge kind of the Center Cemetery Ridge May saw legitimately might be a week. Wind an issue through us at it again supported by artillery, it could potentially bring. So again, they don't get I might take, is they? Don't get the details really right in the movie but I think the big picture for me is is close enough to be an accurate. And I think he can come away from the movie with a general sense of what was going on the charge. Just have Tabuley Jones, playing Lee instead of our gene or something like that. We would come off a whole lot better. And I kind of equate your Pickett's charge. It soil last seconds of football game a team a Hail Mary Pass. If. He does their job. There's a chance it could work, but nobody blocks and quarterback at sacked. It's a failure. And I think that's Kinda. What Lee is looking at people assumed will win. Do Fellow Salts ever work? Will the they work? Otherwise people would not do that. Enough Times where they were successful and Lee is actually. Commission this attack to what was joy third, probably the weakest part of the Union line fat point. It just wasn't enough. Overwhelming force to to carry the position. And the artillery doesn't work. The artillery works. He's got a fighting chance. If it doesn't work, he's got no chance. At the way that the movie shows it, obviously, it doesn't work, but there's it doesn't mention how many people die. Just see a lot of people dying course the fighting turns to bayonets and close range very very quick. You drop to get married somewhere year. Yeah I saw suplex after. Go frame by frame for that one. I remember that. Director Scott. What after the battle, Martin, Sheen's version of generally takes responsibility for this. He says it's my fault. General Pickett's there. He's like Oh you must look to your division pick. It's got tears in his eyes, and he states I generally I have no division, and so that's how the battle of Gettysburg. Officially comes to an end as far as the movie is concerned. How well did the movie do showing how the battle actually ended there after the failure of Pickett's charge I think the movie does a decent job showing how PICKETT's charge. You know the Lee legal been oversold Lysol. It's all my fault, and as you sat encouraging picket or that that stuff did happen. You, know I think if I directed that movie directed. Those seems a little bit differently because I still think, Robert earley comes off strong and forceful enough at that moment in the movie you know people who witnessed this in real life, said this was a hell of an inspiring moment it. Oh, the confederate army is thinking. You know this could be lights out if the unions Yankees counter-attacked. We're not going to be. You have robbery coming out saying boys. It's all my fault. Reform Reform with me. It will be ready and again I don't I don't think the movie does a great job with. But I think again they get bigger kind of useful basic idea, right? Is Far as the end of the that or you know a little bit of different story. Thank you the last time we see lien long straight. They're sitting around a campfire. Both very much looking the worse for wear and the total disintegration of Robert Lee that we have now seen on screen for the last four hours. I think just becomes complete as he on the spurs sowed into tears. I am so very tired. Lee In his lieutenants Jeb Stuart manteca bunch of Stewart. The movie gives a bad rap do Leeann. His lieutenants do a heck of a job stage managing their exit in the retreat from Gettysburg the League was allowing himself the feel disappointed and defeated for a couple of minutes on the evening of thirteen, sixty three, he turned out around pretty quick. Young retrieve, and you know history tells us you know ultimately off the Yankees long enough throughout the army. Yeah I think even the way. If you look at the end, you know way. It's all my salt. He's kind of. doddering old man there whereas long. Bring up the guns get line organized Leah longer both doing that other inventions are doing that and what gets lost. This idea, it's all my fault. What Lee will insides now you need all my good soldiers. Reform helped me get out of this lease immediately. Thinking what the next step is is I think expecting there could be some union troops or cross Satori Ridge very soon. He was going to be prepared, slap. That's a great point that you can't mean. You can't just give up. You gotta bail to get out of it. Right, And I would argue outdoor on record as say this I think Lee's finest moment ever is commander of the army. Northern Virginia is the retreat from Gatti's Berg. Getting his army back into Virginia relatively intact with all the supplies with most of your wounded, it allows the confederacy fight on for almost two more years. Anybody can invade. It's a lot harder to get fifty sixty miles out of enemy territory safely. History is full of examples, think of Napoleon leaving Russia. Of how, just absolutely devastated his army that doesn't have l'armee northern Virginia, and they're beaten. They're not seated. That's a great point. I know we've talked about quite a few different misconceptions that people might have from this movie, but are there any other major myths or misconceptions that you get on your tours from people who have seen this movie that we haven't talked about yet? Yeah! I just touched down Jeb Stuart a moment ago. Because I think that's a blatant, you know the idea that Jon Stewart was up no US ride around getting his name in the papers. You know kind of saying that's the perception. You got the general public a lot Oh. Yes wasn't even use the phrase joyriding like they don't remember anything else from the movie, but then joyriding off on you. So yeah, Jeb Steward joyriding look You know I'm not saying. Stewart's movements send Pennsylvania where the highlights of his career. They were not storms given discretionary orders on how he was supposed to get into into Pennsylvania, and he's trying to reconnect with the army of Northern Virginia. He's not a joy riding which again. That's rats. A really really common s yellow other thing. I'll add to when we're talking about little round top somebody'll Dang us if we don't mention if there's no fill in the movie, you know you have a less lying. Outright flags or heavy fighting going on at called sale, and there are students battles and thinks that. Call, sale the union right flank is even strategically more important than around. So you know we should, we should mention that for the folks to question for me. In terms of myths, we kind of cover for one. There's two real big ones for me. one I think is the the portrayal day one which we already talked about, but I think the other ideas that. All the confederates had to do just move around the Union army. Then it's simple movement that if long street was just listened to, and what's interesting, is Lee actually addresses long streets proposal in his official report what he basically says. We don't have the cavalry to screen it. We don't have the logistical ability to move our entire. Just go line back and also we have to assume that the union army's just GonNa. Let us do it. And so I think Lisa's. It's just not feasible and I've. Had People vehemently argue of me on tours the? It could have been done. There's a difference between what you WanNa, do and what you can do on the battlefield. And I think. Lee realized it's just not. Tour, work, practicable. To do that? Sounds like between that and the charge like a lot of the decisions, especially towards the end of the battle that Lee made were. Between a rock and a hard place here's what I can do. Try To make the best decision you can in less than ideal situation by any means it's Lee grasping for the initiative once again. Louis has the initiative in that campaign up until June twenty eighth. A lot of things happened that changed that lease, attempting to regain the initiative that he never gets again and would thoughts. Your drive in the actually begins reacting to the Union army. Yeah. That's right. I mean as you go from. The thirtieth of first and the second of third you can literally see lease options being removed from table for longer than Pennsylvania and I would echo Eric's point. You know the idea of moving around to the confederate. Ride is not nearly as easy or even possible this. They make it in the movie, but again they WANNA. Give us long street the The all knowing nights. I just say I think Tom Berringer's performance along street is totally underrated I think it's best performance in the movie, but he gets lost under that bad dear. Everybody remembers the Baragan I think. Singalong street does a great job as a barringer does a great job. Thank you so much for coming on a chat about Gettysburg for anyone wanting to learn more about the real history. There's your podcast called the battle of Gettysburg podcast. And, you've also got tours of the battlefield as well so my final question is kind of a two parter. The first part is for someone listening to this. Who wants to walk through history by visiting the battlefield itself? Can you share a little bit of information about your tours? How someone can plan a visit? And then the second part is someone who listening the can't visit, Gettysburg, so they want to hear more from your podcast can give an overview of you podcast where someone can listen. Yes, so I was trying to find our podcast. We are found wherever podcasts are found on numerous platforms. You just type in even just Gettysburg. You'll find this the battle of Gettysburg podcasts. We, recommend follow us. Our social media's well On. We have lots of great discussions. Their interactions for fans. If you can't get Gettysburg I, think we're the next best thing listening to us. Talk about it if you're coming to Gettysburg just a couple of ways that you can get tours. Through the Gettysburg Visitor Center, which is typically open in a noncovic world. Gettysburg Heritage Centre look up the Association of licensed battlefield. Guides these contacts Thirty Association of Licensed Battlefield Guides or is your following Eric My podcast on facebook? You can message us directly, and maybe we could. For. Lots of different ways to do it, but the important thing is. We want to get people to get his loin. We spent like last hour. China bashing the movie. The movie daddy's does well is I think it creates a spirit. Spirit of Gettysburg spirit of Gettysburg is important spirit of why it's. In the mid, nineteen, Ninety S, that movie did get a lot of people come visit us in Gandhi's. He's Oregon I would love to see her as I'm sure I'd love to see a resurgence and. And you know have found. And I think that's what we should thank. For either one know we're bashing picking apples. Shari if nothing else I hopefully it raises awareness. When I started this podcast, it was one of the reasons why I started. was he able to connect with with folks like you? That know that information and being able to. Get that deep dive of information that you could never get from an hour long conversation as great as the information's been so far so much more information out there and I recommend if you are coming together Berg whether you've been here hundreds of times, or it's your first time. You're well-served getting a license battlefield guide We've been here since nineteen fifteen. We are truly the best in the world. Do and helping people connect to and understands battles so if you're coming here? With Allah Guide. And we can tailor the toward almost any special interest you know I. Have I have specialty topics? Eric especially topics our colleagues. Do you know if there's an aspect of the battles? You WanNa dies on or if you just want a general overview we can do we can. Areas. That's fantastic I'm sure to add all those links into the show notes for this episode as well. Thank you again so much for your time. This episode of based on a true story was produced by me down the Fed. I'd like to thank. Jim Eric once again for their time and expertise and helping US separate fact from fiction in the movie Gettysburg. If you WANNA learn even more about the real history of the battle, go subscribe to their excellent podcast, called the battle of Gettysburg podcast. In fact, they actually have to parter where they take a super deep dive into the historical accuracy of both the movie and the book the movie. Movie is based on so they cover a lot more detail in those episodes than we did here today or schedule a tour. If you WANNA see the places where the fighting took place and don't forget about Jim's great books, either there are three of them as of this recording, they are sickles at Gettysburg. The controversial civil war general, who committed murder, abandoned little round top, and declared himself the hero of Gettysburg. Jim also co authored a book with Brit. Eisenberg called Gettysburg's Peach Orchard Long Street sickles and the bloody fight for the commanding ground along Emmett's. Berg wrote. And last, but certainly not least Jim Co authored the first battlefield guide about the final attack with Wayne mottes and cartographer Steve Stanley called Pickett's charge at Gettysburg, a guy to the most famous attack in American history. And of course, if you're driving or unable to look those up for now than I'll make sure to add links to those books, their podcast and tours in the show notes for this episode as well as on the shows on the web based on a true story PODCAST DOT com. Okay now it's time for the answer to our truth and lie game from the beginning of the episode as a refresher, here are the true truth and one light. Number One. One percent of all battlefield casualties during the American civil war were caused by bayonets. Number two winning the battle of Gettysburg did not guarantee victory for winning the American civil war. Number three. The Union planned the battle of Gettysburg to push the confederacy out of Pennsylvania. You find out which one is ally? Let's start with number. One one percent of all battlefield casualties during the American civil war were caused by nets that. Is True. Eric out that a lot of movies tend to depict fighting during the civil war as turned into close combat every time quickly with bayonets, only one percent of battlefield casualties during the American civil war were caused by bayonets. Next. Is Number two winning? The Battle of Gettysburg did not guarantee victory for winning the American civil war. That is also true as both Jim. And Eric mentioned even though the Union army won both the battle of Gettysburg and would go on to win the overall war. It wasn't necessarily the victory at Gettysburg that let the union when the war as they pointed out, generally still managed to get his army out of Gettysburg and continue fighting for two more years. That means number three is the life. The Union planned the battle of Gettysburg to push the confederacy out of Pennsylvania. Jim and Eric pointed out that the battle of Gettysburg is what military historians refer to as a meeting engagement. Basically even though both sides did know about the presence of enemy, soldiers nearby, neither side planned out this massive battle in fact, depending on how events played out. It's very possible that there could have just been a few clashes and not much more. Of course we know from history. That's not what happened. As the battle of Gettysburg ended up being the bloodiest battle of the American civil war with over fifty thousand casualties between July first and July third, eighteen, sixty three. That just about wraps up our time together today before we go the last thing I like to do on each episode is to share how much time and effort went into creating this episode. I know, that's not something that most podcast do and that's exactly why I'm sharing this information. If there's one thing that is surprising to people who are new to podcasting or never created podcast before it's how much time goes into creating them. So I figure, maybe if you find out more about how much time and money goes into creating podcasts like mine than maybe you'll start to appreciate all those podcasts that you listen to for free just a little bit more. With that set today's episode took a total of thirty nine hours to create and cost twenty four dollars and thirteen cents out of pocket expenses. And as I always do I. WanNa make it clear that time and cost is only my time for this one episode, so in other words that thirty nine hours did not include the countless hours of my guest time researching the subject matter we talked about. It also does not include the time that it takes for me to do podcasts related things that are not a part of creating this one episode, for example, the time it takes to maintain the based on a true story website, social media email, and all those other little things. Are Creating podcast episode that are required to make podcast. And similarly on the expensive side that twenty four dollars and thirteen cents is just for things specifically for this one episode, which mostly is going to be research material. It doesn't include any of the podcast relating expenses that go beyond making this one episode for example, the cost of the microphone that I'm talking into right now. The cables that are hooked up to the microphone the audio interface that the microphone is plugged into the computer that the audio interfaces plugged into the software that I'm recording this on right now. All the PODCAST and website hosting costs that are a monthly subscription and on and on. All of those things take time to set up and maintain and cost money that go beyond things that are associated with this one episode, but they are all things that are required because if I didn't do those things. There wouldn't be any episodes of based on a true story at all. In a nutshell, this podcast may be free to listen to, but it's not free to create, and that's why I'm so thankful for the wonderful people who are helping to support the show financially so that we can keep it going. So if you enjoyed today's episode, I hope you'll consider helping to support the next episode over at based on a true story podcast dot com slash support as a bonus, you'll get access to hours of exclusive content on the producers feet right now there are forty nine Minnesota over there, covering different fictional movies, and the way that they use real history or events to make them seem more realistic for example, even though we haven't had a full linked episode of true story for a few weeks, now there have been a couple of Minnesota released over on the producers feed covering movies like the secret life of pets and Bumblebee. There are hours and hours of bonus content, available immediately and plenty more plant, and in the works as a way of saying, thank you for helping me keep the lights on here at based on a true story. Once again you can find out how to support the show over at based on a true story podcast dot com slash support in the meantime. 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Gettysburg Robert e Lee Joshua Chamberlain Union army confederates Union Army General Buford Jim Eric confederate army Hollywood Pennsylvania Maryland Abraham Lincoln Maryland Virginia Maine Winfield Scott Hancock Liens Gettysburg
Tue. 12/17  The Debate Is On

Election Ride Home

17:09 min | 1 year ago

Tue. 12/17 The Debate Is On

"Welcome welcome to the election. Ride home for Tuesday December seventeenth twenty. Nineteen I'm your host Chris again with a summary of election news today Thursday's debate is actually a happening Georgia purges. More than three hundred thousand voters from its voter rolls. The impeachment update a new Republican funded super. PAC aims is to defeat trump candidates asked the DNC to change. Its qualification rules for upcoming debates and debate Bingo is here. Here's Miss Today from the campaign pain trail I tonight looks like Thursday's DNC debate will in fact Tappan as planned united here. Local eleven sent out a press release just before six. Am Pacific this morning reading from that. Release Quote Sadako at at Loyola Marymount University and their employees negotiated through Monday evening to secure a tentative contract agreement. The Democratic National Committee and Tom Perez worked hard hard to help bring the situation to a positive resolution. The three-year agreement includes a twenty five percent increase in compensation a fifty percent drop in healthcare costs and increases to workers job security and quote. This comes after reports the DNC chair. Tom Perez spent more than twenty hours. Working on this issue over the weekend. Kende oh and by the way Peres was the. US Secretary of Labor during President Obama's second term. So you know he is familiar with Labor issues. Anyway this means tate will proceed as scheduled and it also means those service workers at Loyola. We'll get a better deal on wages and healthcare which is what they've been asking for since March coach last night. A judge in Georgia allowed the state to purge three three hundred thirteen thousand voters from voting. Rolls this comes on the heels of a separate decision in Wisconsin to remove two hundred thirty four thousand voters in that state. Just for Perspective on twitter author Ari Berman pointed out. The percentage of the electorate that each purge represents Wisconsin has removed seven percent of its registered disturbed voters and now Georgia has removed four percent of its registered voters. Keep in mind. The president trump one wisconsin by less than one percent and Georgia. Our job just over five percent in two thousand sixteen so while these purges don't affect just one party even small movements in turn out or voter eligibility can hand swing elections at the top and farther down the ballot. Okay so what happened in Georgia. Well it is similar to the Wisconsin. Issue Georgia mailed out a series of notices to voters. Ask them to verify their address. The most recent notice was in November. Those who didn't respond were scheduled to be purged starting last night after a court proceeding yesterday. Georgia judge allowed the purge to continue despite objections by fair fight action. That's the voting rights organization founded by Stacey Abrams Abrahams. Initially the judge agreed to hold off and allowing the state to proceed but state lawyers argue the time was of the essence here and if there were any mistakes stakes they could be fixed. After the voters were purged. They could be basically unpackaged so the judge allowed the purge to continue but also said a hearing hearing for this Thursday to hear arguments from fair fight action reading from an Associated Press story published by The New York Times quote. Fair fight says that over one. Two hundred twenty thousand people are on the purge list solely because they have not voted or had any other statutorily defined contact with election officials goals in the past seven years and have not responded to two notices. He can confirmation of their current address. The organization says a new law allows voters nine nine years of inactivity before being removed compared to seven years under the old law and is asking the judge to halt the removal of those voters. From Georgia's roles. Georgians should not lose their right to vote simply because they have not expressed that right in recent elections and Georgia's practice of removing voters. Who have declined to participate in? Recent elections violates the United States constitution firefight action CEO. Lauren grow Wargo said in a statement lawyer lawyer. Brian Tyson representing the Secretary of state said in court that the people in question were placed on the inactive list before the new law took effect and quote. This comes down to an argument about whether the purge constitutes simple maintenance of that voter lists like you really ought to remove people who have died or moved away or whether amounts to voter suppression one notable deadline in Georgia means the purges like. This must happen more than ninety days before the next selection that either means the purge has to happen later this month or it cannot happen at all in two thousand twenty because there is no oh ninety day time window all year without some kind of election in the state and now the impeachment news in three minutes or less a large group of house. Democrats who represent districts. The President Trump won in two thousand sixteen have announced that they will vote in favor of impeachment. There are thirty one. Democrats who represent districts like that and now at least sixteen have publicly announced their votes Democrats can afford to lose as many as seventeen votes from their caucus overall assuming and otherwise party line vote so while this will be a close one mid is likely to pass ass. These announcements come in the midst of dueling waves of advertising. The National Republican Congressional Committee has been running digital ads targeting some of those Democrats who may be vulnerable in the next election cycle and meanwhile the group in need to impeach which is funded by Democratic candidate. Tom Steyer has been running pro impeachment. TV ADS stiers group has announced at least one million dollars in AD spending over the next few weeks. Those ads are mostly targeting Republican senators today. The House Rules Committee is sorting out the rules for how the floor debate will happen on Wednesday head of the vote. That committee has a huge Democratic majority with nine Democrats and four Republicans lukens. But that doesn't mean the hearings will go quickly. We can expect their work to go in well into this evening on Wednesday. We expect debate on the House floor. To begin around the middle of of the day it will continue for hours and an actual vote on the articles of impeachment is expected in the evening. Assuming at least one of the articles is approved. The House will also the vote to approve impeachment managers. These are members of the House will act like prosecutors in the Senate trial it is unclear right now who these members will be. There have been rumors. boomer that independent Justin Amash might be in that. Mix along with prominent Democrats. Meanwhile yet another open letter has come out in favor of impeachment reading from a story story by Felicia Saunas in the Washington. Post quote a group of more than seven hundred historians legal scholars and others published an open letter Monday urging the House of Representatives to impeach president trump denouncing his conduct as a clear and present danger to the constitution and quote and one more bit from that article will quote among the notable signatories of the latest letter. Our award winning filmmaker. Ken Burns biographer Robert. Caro and historians Ron ensure now Jon meacham and Douglas Brinkley and quote all right so today the rules for tomorrow's debate will be set. Expect that rulemaking go go late into the night tomorrow. The actual debate tomorrow night the actual vote so check this out. I know a lot of y'all are not in the US and often that means you can't stream the stuff the US networks the stream dream online. And frankly that's bogus. There is no good reason. I should be able to watch the debates for free. But you can't and that's where express. VPN comes in in not only does express VPN. Protect your privacy. While you're online it also lets you change your location as far as these streaming services are concerned so so we've had debates and candidate forums and all this stuff going on you can be sure you can get to them regardless of where you are and yes that also means if you're in the states and you WanNa Watch watch owed say the UK flavor of Net flicks. You can do that to to get on board head over to try express. VPN DOT com slash. Ride that is T. R. Y. E. X. P. R. E. S. S. VPN dot com slash our ID and yes. That link is in the show notes at the top so check out a try express. VPN DOT com slash. Ride today to find out how you can protect your privacy. Change Your online location and get three months free with a one year package. PIGE maxed up a new super. PAC has been formed aiming to defeat President Trump and the twenty twenty election. The difference here is that this one is funded by Republicans and they explicitly say they are actually okay with Democrats defeating him As long as that means getting trump out of office called the Lincoln Project The group announced its existence this morning with an op. Ed in the New York. Times by George Conway Steve Steve Schmidt John Weaver. And Rick Wilson the op Ed is titled We are Republicans and we want trump defeated reading from out. Op Ed quote our many policy. Differences with National Democrats remain but are shared fidelity to the constitution dictates a common effort. The twenty twenty and general election by every indication will be about persuasion with turnout expected to be at record highs. Our efforts are aiming persuading enough disaffected conservatives. Republicans and Republican leaning independence in swing states and districts to help ensure a victory in the electoral college and Congressional majorities. That don't enable enable or a bet Mr Trump's violations of the constitution even if that means democratic control of the Senate and Expanded Democratic majority in the House and quote the op-ed went on to describe the group's beliefs which are more traditionally conservative than those of president trump. They also cast their efforts explicitly in the the name of President Lincoln and end their op. Ed with a description of the battle of Gettysburg during the civil war in their closing passage they contrast the failure of General Dan and sickles whom they liken to trump with another general reading once more from the op-ed quote another Union General Winfield Scott Hancock DOC had only minutes to reinforce the line America the nation the ideal hung in the balance amid the fury of battle. He found the first Minnesota Soda. Volunteers they charged and many of them fell. Suffering a staggeringly high casualty rate. They held the line. They saved the union four four months later Lincoln stood on that field of slaughter and said it is for us the living rather to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. We took to Lincoln as our guide and inspiration. He understood the necessity of Najah saving the Union Union but also of knitting the nation back together spiritually as well as politically but those wounds can be bound up only once the threat has been defeated and so too. Will our country have to knit itself back together after the scourge of trumpism has been overcome and quote Uh over the weekend. A bunch of Democratic candidates called on the DNC to change its qualifying rules for a future debates. Now we know they're four debates currently scheduled for January and February and there should be two more after that but that he nc has not yet announced the specific perfect qualifying criteria for those upcoming debates in the past the DNC has relied on two factors one hitting a certain threshold in polls various estates or nationwide and to getting a certain number of donors including some donors from lots of different states for the earliest debates. Candidates could hit either threshold and tiebreakers were decided by polling numbers. That's what led us to have twenty person debates across two nights for the first two months after that the DNC began requiring candidates to meet both the polling and the donor requirements and with each debate since then the DNC has slowly increased both thresholds with the intent of decreasing the number of candidates on stage. Well it finally worked in December but it also happened to leave us with a mostly white mostly slee mail stage we have Andrew Yang as the only non white person on that stage. Okay so nine candidates that's everybody onstage. This Thursday there's Day plus Senator Cory Booker and former HUD secretary who Leon Castro signed that letter reading from the letter quote while we know this was an unintended ended consequence of the DNC's actions. Many of the candidates excluded due to these thresholds are the ones who have helped make this year's primary field historically diverse. I frankly that unintended result does not live up to the values of our Democratic Party and it does not serve the best interest of Democratic voters. Who who deserve to hear from and be able to choose among the best our party has to offer and quote the letter calls and the DNC to go back to the previous practice of accepting accepted candidates who meet either the donor or the polling criteria? Now if the DNC does this it might mean the return of candidates like Booker Castro Gabbard word and maybe even Williamson the first three there reached the most recent donor threshold of two hundred thousand people and Williamson got pretty close plus it. It would open a door for Bloomberg get in there as well. He doesn't have the donors but he does have pretty good polling results in a statement sent to press. DNC said no oh reading from that statement quote the DNC will not change the threshold for any one candidate and will not revert back to two consecutive -secutive nights. With more than a dozen candidates our qualification criteria is extremely low and reflect where we are in the race. Once voting voting starts in February our criteria will reflect those contests which is more than appropriate and quote the last today. Another debate is here. And we have debate Bingo for Y'all to follow along for those of you who are new to this this debate. Bingo is a simple way to engage with the debate. Now I don't know about you but I've seen a lot of folks slowly coming on board with watching these debates and they tend to have a few questions one of them is. Hey who's that person so the BINGO cards have a row across the top showing the photos and names of each candidate on stage. One quick note this time around for some reason obey sponsor did not release the podium order in advance released. They hadn't done it yesterday when I finished the cards so the candidates are in alphabetical order. Later on the BINGO cards rather than the actual stage order. Now the Bingo part of these BINGO cards also has a series of things the candidates or moderators might do orsay because the group is smaller this time than ever each candidate now gets three squares rather than to so longtime players take note you can download these cards at ride home dot info slash Bingo. That is ride home dot info slash Bingo and that link is also at the very the top of the show notes beneath the sponsor. There are thirty cards in the PDF so only print as many as you need also make sure you print them single-sided well I will not be on twitter on Thursday to play along. There is a Hashtag on the cards. So y'all can share your results and show us your pets and show us your snacks. Well that is it for one episode of the election ride. Home I have been your host Chris Higgins always find me on twitter at Chris Higgins. Ri All right. We are heading into a very busy second half of the week impeachment vote tomorrow. DNC debate on Thursday debate. Recap on Friday and and then guess what. The holidays arrive more about our show scheduled for next week when we get closer to that but long story short there will be some gaffes in the next couple of weeks as I take a break as always thanks for listening and I will talk to Y'all tomorrow.

DNC Georgia president trump DNC US president twitter Loyola Marymount University PAC Chris Higgins Tom Perez Wisconsin National Republican Congressio President Lincoln Senate Georgia Sadako
Monday 15 February

Monocle 24: The Briefing

29:32 min | 2 months ago

Monday 15 February

"You're listening to the briefing first broadcast on the fifteenth of february. Two thousand and twenty one on mccoy twenty four. The briefing brought to you in association with novartis. Hello and welcome to the briefing coming to you. Live from studio one here at macquarie house in london. I'm andrew miller coming up on today's program in the forty two months. This country has achieved an extraordinary feat history. A total of fifteen million jobs into the arms of solomon's bono people in the the united kingdom's vaccine program continues. Its commendable progress There lessons everyone else could be learning from it later in the show. We'll consider the factors which may or may not encourage a new american administration to rejoin the iran nuclear deal abandoned by the last one and the a look at how china's cinema box offices have resumed. Ticking helpfully over and our weekly wrap up of good news which this week features among much else. Us civil war reenacting rooster. That's all coming up right here on the briefing on monocle. Twenty four and welcome to today's edition of the briefing with me and ramallah. The uk is overall response to the covid. Nineteen pandemic has not been widely hailed as a master class. It has for example taken until today for arrivals into england to be subject to quarantines however the uk is showing the world the way in rolling out a vaccine program. Fifteen million people have now had at least one jab including a to the government. Everyone in the top four priority groups. Nevertheless there are presently still twenty. Three thousand people hospitalized in britain with covid nineteen still more than at the previous peak. Lost april lon joined with more on this by monocle. Twenty fours health and science correspondent dr chris smith also a virologist at cambridge university. Chris let's start with a big question and work our way back from. There isn't too early to be saying things about end. Beings insight light at end of tunnel and so forth. We certainly need a plan andrew because obviously we. We need to know where we're likely to be by certain times so we can make plans in plan for the future. Things have changed. The equation has shifted unlike previous lockdowns. Where the aim was to drive down the circulation of the virus and hopefully achieve very low level so we could open things up in some sort of limited way. Now we're in a position where okay we have a lockdown on. We've got the levels going down but we've also got a very significant proportion of the most vulnerable people now pretend potentially protected by these vaccines that number's going to increase. The resilience of that protection is going to increase in. It's going to do that over time. So therefore with an eye on that timeline winning thinking where we want to be what. What can we afford to do in terms of loading one end of the see-saw counterbalanced by that protective effect of the vaccination on the other into the sea so by win an. It's looking likely that probably eight pro time may time as the weather improves as well. We'll be in a much sound ashore position. And and i think there'll be a lot more confidence to to stop making those sorts of positive steps if you look at the global measures of countries which have administered lodge numbers of vaccinations by proportion to their populations. The uk is up there. So far with the united arab emirates and israel now those are three very different countries for all kinds of reasons both size geography climate but ave lessons from their experience so far that other countries could be learning something from well. The bottom line is we need to get as many people to get vaccinated as possible as fast as possible and the reason for the alacrity here is that if we don't go quickly all the time you've got high turnover of the virus in the in the population in the community. There's a greater chance of the number of rolls. The genetic dies disclosing mutants or different variants of the virus and particularly viruses that are seeing an immune population and this increases the selective pressure on the virus. Make it more likely that will disclose variance that cam by pulsa vaccine so now. It's as one person dubbed it a game of cat-and-mouse between the who who gets vaccinated and how quickly and the ability of the virus to change so so most countries agree. We need to have a very fast pace run at this. Get to the point where as many people are protected against the current circulating strains as possible and then with the eye on the future which is as melinda gates said rather believable of all this if there's covert anywhere this covid everywhere because it's all very well ask protecting one country but if we want to open up borders if we don't want to live in a gilded cage forever where we insist on people laying staying in hotels for two weeks just to make sure that the country is protected the that we need a an international strategy and that international strategy must include protecting other countries that haven't been as fast off the mark in terms of banks nation as us an also. The fact is if you've got countries that remain unprotected an unvaccinated they will become hotbeds virus turnover and they could disclose very mutants that were trying to keep out thus sustaining and continuing the problem. I mean all that being considered then is not the guilded cage scenario starting to look a bit more likely. I mean especially in light of the recent announcement by germany that it's going to start partially closing. Its borders with parts of the czech republic and austria in order to slow down variants of the virus. If we if we are if we remain for some time at a place where everybody has been vaccinated as much. Are we going to end up with this on even partially connected partially open partially closed world. Yeah people have dubbed this abolish business class haven't they where people get vaccinated. They get some kind of vaccine passport or certain occupations are no journalism unfortunately influences had robbed away from them. The opportunity to travel to influence people probably a good thing actually in in recent days in order to try to stem the spread of the virus but yes Increasingly countries are recognizing that the the threat posed by variants can be a real thorn in their side when it comes to the vaccine program so they're all steps being taken to try to limit that spread because at the end of the day. Whoa no one safe deliver unsafe. Therefore you've got to put place barriers to the virus and we have big open connected countries and populaces. This is the perfect way to spread these things around so that has to be some kind of strategy is going to be reinforced by testing and the sorta scrutiny of. What's going round that we're doing here in the uk without coq uk. The consortium which is actually testing samples which coming from positive tests in the country and looking for variation variance and and then aggressively pursuing them. The same thing needs to needs to be happening across the world ashley to look for this and reinforced by a strong test and tries. Follow up system which you know that that has been a real stumbling block for governments everywhere continuously. Hopefully this time. They'll get it right though. Have not seen any any cellmate noises. Being made by anybody to show that they have solved the problems that we were struggling with before. This may be as much a political as scientific question but what i wonder about now is for the countries which did lockdown especially odd have been lauded both at home and abroad for their success in tackling this and the obvious examples Austrailia new zealand. Is it possible that they are going to have now. Possibly ironically more difficulty reengaging with the world because if they have established this benchmark that any outbreak of covid nineteen however. Tiny is intolerable. And we've seen cities in new zealand and in australia lockdown over literal handfuls of cases. How are they ever going to re-engage with the world because they will have to be some tolerance Accepted by a public. Won't it before before they're allowed travel and have people come to them there to look this one way is you can adopt the stance that you're not going to tolerate any kind of corona virus and that seems to be the mindset in new zealand and australia. They've gone to enormous lengths to sterilize their country. To the grace the extent possible and then try and keep their countries that way but the problem is that these viruses a tricky beasts and they can come in various measures in maneuvers. And and so. You're always going to be on the lookout for them. Coming in and then you have to act in the same way that you have done previously to keep your status if we don't have any covert but the problem is with the millions of people who travel announce vice countries every year. That means weeks in a hotel of isolation that will have inevitable consequences for both people who live in those countries but people who won't to or need to visit those countries. The other possibility is that you say well we know. We cannot eradicate corona virus from from the world. Caught me do that because this is a zoonotic. Infection is not a human natural infection. It is an infection that came to us from animals. We haven't found the species. We assume it's still out there therefore even if we did manage to buy some amazing feat eradicate this infection because that source reminds it would just jump back potentially and we'd have to start all over again. So what's our plan. B will our plan b. Is you go for an elimination strategy. Which is what we use for. Things like measles you have very high levels vaccine uptake. As to the greatest extent possible across the world and you protect people by vaccination and public health measures having driven the vaccine the virus circulating levels right down because you know historically decades ago there were millions of cases of measles and there were hundreds of thousands of deaths. Now we've got those numbers still hundred thousand deaths last year for measles hundred hundred and fifty thousand people died of measles last year but at the same time. That's a small number compared to where we used to be. And by the careful use of public health combined with vaccines we are able to operate a world that is tolerable and doesn't have mass measles outbreaks. This new coronavirus can be controlled in a similar way. What we're doing at the moment with vaccination is protecting the most vulnerable so that those people converted in from lethal cases into nonlethal cases. Then we have to ask the question. Are we willing to tolerate a low grade level of transmission in the population with orbit mild symptoms in order to sustain normality knowing that we have to keep on vaccinating people to make sure they don't become lethal cases when they're older and it might be that that's the way it has to go and that countries like australia and new zealand are going to have to tolerate some degree of incursion of the virus through their country it. It's gonna put them in a very difficult position christmas. Thank you as always for joining us. You're listening to the briefing. Here is your lingo fan. With the days of the headlines thanks. Andrew myanmar's military has warned anti coup protesters that they may face up to twenty years in prison. If they obstruct the armed forces earlier it was reported that civilian leader aung san suu chee will be detained for further. Today's at least four hundred people have been detained since the coup at the beginning of the month. Australia and new zealand have received their first covid nineteen vaccine deliveries and will begin rolling at inoculations in the coming week. Australia's first shipment contained hundred forty. Two thousand doses of defies a biotic vaccine new zealand received sixty thousand vaccines and argentina's former president. Carlos menem has died at the age of ninety. He was one of latin. America's best known presidents who presided over the liberalization of argentina's economy in the nineteen ninety s argentina's current president's alberto fernandez decreed three days of national mourning in honor of minimum. Does today's headlines back to you andrew. Thank you you're listening to the briefing on monocle. Twenty four now. Joe biden is not the first. Us president for whom the islamic republic of iran has presented a headache. He is indeed. If i've done the math right the eight in a row. The specific conundrum facing president biden is the future of the joint comprehensive plan of action. Better known as the iran nuclear deal under which iran and several other countries agreed constraints on iran's nuclear program president. Donald trump withdrew the. Us from the deal and president biden had indicated a preference to rejoin it. But it may not be that straightforward on joined with more by holly douglass senior fellow at the atlantic council and editor of the atlantic council's iran. Source holly first of all. If biden wants back into this thing why isn't it as simple as the us. Just something back on the dotted line. If that's how these things work. Well a lot has happened. In the past two years this all began of course when former. Us president donald trump withdrew from the iran. Deal for no other reason than the hope for getting a better deal than his predecessor now Things were pretty quiet for that first year but once you on that sanctions had been reimposed. And they weren't getting any relief from it From european signatories they decided few withdrawal or breach from aspects of the iran nuclear deal. And that's something that they've been continuing since may twenty nineteen now. The latest is that the iranians have been putting pressure on the biden administration because of the november assassination of iran's top nuclear scientists. And when they did that they just parliament had actually passed a law thing that they were going to do several things on february twenty first. Which is the latest date in which they're planning to Breach court and so. There's this pressure that they're putting on biden administration and maybe get some sanctions removal and they're essentially giving them an ultimatum date town with a live so far as it's possible to tell and i know that tehran has always maintained a degree of constructive 'ambiguities about its nuclear intentions. Does iran actually want. This deal revived. If for example the us were to say okay. Fine we'll drop the sanctions. Would iran be happy to re sign up to it and to abide by all of its provisions. Well actually iran very much. Like united states It is not a monolith. They have various factions that have buried us the current president. Roh honey honey actually wants us. The older survive because he's put all of its cloud on it and if he could get it to revive itself at least he was we his two term legacy was something positive but his opponents the hardliners and government actually don't want the field or survive they would rather that iran tilt towards the east and essentially if you look at the conversations. They've been having about the iran nuclear agreement from the get go. They were behemoth against it. They did not trust the west and when the united states withdrew from the deal under trump it proved their point so for them they would like us to be done with and then they can move on with other things. Why is the united states involvement in this. Crucial to the deal though. Because this wasn't a ballpoint bipartite in fact Agreement between the united states and iran also involves of france germany and russia iran they enough by way of guaranteeing it. I think you raise a valid point. Andrew pack this deal was initially negotiated by three european countries. In the early two thousand it was started by germany. france and britain and other world powers joined in the conversation as the years went on. But the issue here is that the united states have reimpose sanctions and these sanctions threat. Other threatened other countries So if the european company wants to invest in iran the united states can technically through secondary sanctions sanctions company. And so this is why. It's so problematic and why the iranians are frustrated because They are not able to do. These deals that were promised. After the iran nuclear agreement was signed in twenty fifteen five willpower plus germany just finally. Isn't there fundamentally an element of theater to all of this. Though doesn't everybody involved here understand And appreciate that. If it was thought that iran actually walls getting anywhere close to developing an actual deliverable nuclear weapon. Then somebody would take decisive and do a drastic action to stop them. That is a very valid point. And i think it's important to note that the iranians have always said we will river actions once the sanctions are removed. The united states return to the deal and so there is theater impulse certainly on the iranians and every time they breach their basically signaling. You're hinting that. They're they're getting fed up and that time is running out and they're using this as a pressure tactic on a new administration. That's only than four weeks old and is right now dealing with a pandemic and dealing with an economy that's in dire straits south because of the pandemic so they're trying to get the attention of the obama administration even though they actually have their focus on bigger and pressuring issues that are impacting the united states. Holy dogra thank you as always for joining us. You're listening to the briefing own monocle. Twenty four navarre's is proud to partner the briefing on monocle twenty four navarre's this is a company that is committed to reimagining medicine. Global health care leader intent on changing the practice of medicine. Novartis has been exploring uncharted frontiers and science for more than a century. Today the company is working on breakthrough treatments that pushed the boundaries of human understanding biology. Data science and engineering to develop and deliver therapies. That help people live longer and healthier lives around the world. Novartis reimagining medicine. You are back with briefing on monocle. Twenty four time now. One of our irregular updates from the world of cinema which despite which may be assumed by this point is still finding ways to remain a thing. fernando in these. I should say introduced by fernando augusta protect just piled straighten out like people would assume that obviously fernando is talking about this but it it does seem like an unlikely time to be having a record-breaking filmed. There is one in china. It is very surprising. I mean china. Of course they have a big amount of covert cases and cinemas have reopened since last july but andrew. I'm surprised myself. Because even at the current state. I mean there's a cap of seventy five percent of seats in cinemas and in some cities it's fifty percent. It's still asking people to sit quite close together in you know for quite a long period in not terribly well ventilated environment. it safe. I mean some countries where there's no cases or they're they're almost kind of doing very well and just look at the numbers adjust this weekend. Overall there was at the box office was seven hundred. Seventy five million dollars and of course the majority of this number was thanks to detective. Chinatown three So is that the film is packing them into fifty seventy five percent capacity very much so and i want you to have just a feel for the film. We'll have a very short clip of it. Let's hear it into philosophical work. I mean it's it's a comedy mystery as well to the tactics and they tried to investigate all sorts of crimes. But i mean if you look at the trailer. It's quite funny. In a way and this time they go to tokyo and then to investigate a crime but then there's he's their car chase. Of course there's a fine on vote. Of course look at the numbers. Three hundred ninety eight million dollars. Not even avengers endgame manage to do that in a weekend in the united states. I mean that just shows how healthy you know. The cinema industry in china is at the moment as well and it was not only detective. Chinatown three and number two. We have Time travel romantic comedy call. Hi mum did one hundred sixty one million dollars. I mean those numbers are just impressive. i was not expecting. I was expecting big numbers monarch quite as high mean. Those numbers are impressive. And i guess the question is because obviously and all jokes aside. Cinema has been devastated Last year for all the reasons we were just discussing. It's not really a a viable business model. A lot of places just at the moment there signs outside china of of cinema recovering. Yeah there are signs even in countries where you know cinemas closed. I'm sure a lot of executives in the los angeles quite happy with the numbers of saying when it's safe people will go back Just look at the weekend in japan. You had good numbers with local films usually as well Another romantic of film fell in love like a flower bouquet Doing very well in jamaica lost something in the translation or at least. I hope it has rush. You had a road trip film as well. Corradini know. Just a dad. You know taking their kids to music festival to perform his own music so they're quite a lot of positive stories. I have to say mainly in asia but that's kind of hope for other countries which are still kind of have very high number of cases. But i think when the situation is getting better. It's very positive for the industry overall. Do you discern any indications yet of what kind of films people going to want to see in an immediately post pandemic age i mean. I wonder if people will play safe. I mean look at the tactics. Chinatown three. I mean number three so clearly the first two very well so was a very safe but then i mean you haven't original film like mom or even this road trip russian film corradini which. I'm quite curious about it. So i mean so. I think some interesting ideas you know are still very much. Welcome movie goers fernando augusta per shekar. Thank you for joining us. You're listening to the briefing on monaco. Twenty four this is the briefing with me and ramallah and finally on. Today's show our weekly wrap up of the kind of news which might keep going for another seven days. Probably best avoided by the militantly. Peng verse if i'm honest Welcome to the forty fifth of these weekly gulps into the inky night of the covid. Nineteen news scape in the vague. Hope of glimpsing the shooting star of good news. Good news this week. Four sports finds who while they may recognize that the us national anthem is a final choon. Never quite understood the necessity of singing it. Before every goddamn contest between the hartford yard goats and the rocket city trash ponders and yes. Those are real. We look them up. Nba team the dallas mavericks announced that they were going to ditch the anthem from the pre-game formalities. Which was also good news in this specific context because anything is if it gets a basketball match over with more quickly seriously. It's an extremely silly everyone's toll and it's too easy to score and nothing ever happens until the last five seconds in the last five seconds take like fifteen minutes but they were then good news for everyone who enjoys a good bench clearing culture war piling. And who doesn't as all the usual suspects spouted all the nonsense about how the dallas mavericks should only in china if they think communism is so marvelous etc and then the mavs sort of said all right and fine. We'll leave it so that was good news for people who do believe that singing. The star spangled banner endows a gravitas appropriate before the toledo mud hens. Face off against the scottsdale community college fighting artichokes also both real though. We don't know if they played in the same league or even play the same sport and crucially so everybody's happy although arguably not as lou a nashville based border collie you know you make me wanna like her namesake has plenty to shout about conceivably wolf about whatever. The good news for lulu is that. She's now five million dollars better off having been left that some by her late owner in one of those zany bequests usually significantly more appreciated by the compilers of whimsical news monologues than by any human relatives of the deceased. How ever this yawn is also good news for people who enjoy ruining everyone elses enjoyment of heart warming animal related stories as it turns out that the previous claim to fame of lose benefactor. Bill doris was obstinately. Maintaining on his property a remarkably. Ugly statue of lieutenant. General nathan forrest confederate cavalry but settled down. This is maybe good news in that. Perhaps the monument might now shortly follow. Its protect to into the embrace of oblivion and it certainly good news for maintaining what seems to be something of a civil war theme this week because there was good news one thomas ramsay of co-pilot county mississippi. Thomas ramsey is an eighteen year old confederate civil war enthusiast who possesses a rooster which accompanies him to battle reenactments and he's also doubtless a big hit with the ladies ramsey and his rooster whose name is peep were returning from an event in spring hill tennessee location of a minor skirmish in nineteen sixty four when the bird went a wall during a rest. Stop at eight cracker barrel restaurant near cullman alabama. Yes well done very atmospheric the good people of coleman very possibly in pursuit. Not only of the roosted but the most excitement they'd ever known responded with alacrity to an online appeal and had peop- corralled within a couple of hours. A reunion between bird and owner has now been effected. Let's have a swell of some obviously sarcastic soppy syrupy strings heavy reunion music which will only serve to reinforce the frankly snobbish highfalutin metropolitan elitist tone. This item has taken towards. What may well have been the genuine distress of an entirely blameless. Young man and the good townsfolk rallied to him in. This is our need still. This story is also good. News for those of us now embarked on week three thousand seven hundred and fifty six lockdown or whatever it is where up to as we can while away a few hours doing chicken. Civil war crossover puns. Let's see battle of legs intern battle of fort henry. Of course that's maybe not really upon see also battle of hens and you run into the same problem with the battles of chick a so abihu and chick. A mortga delayed count. They was the confederate ships hen. and doa. the that's kind of reach the battle of little leg wound would have been a ripa but wrong war moving along to generals we have some. You'll coop george. Chuck winfield scott hancock. The doodle do that is all for this edition of the briefing. It was produced. By marcus hippy. And you'll in goffin studio manager today was christie evans. The briefing returns at the same time tomorrow. Midday uk. I'm andrew mullah. Thanks for listening.

iran Us new zealand Austrailia uk president biden macquarie house biden administration dr chris smith Novartis argentina atlantic council germany china ramallah andrew miller andrew Andrew myanmar aung san suu chee Carlos menem
S14: Unknown America: The White House

Parcast Presents

43:49 min | 5 months ago

S14: Unknown America: The White House

"One of the most iconic works of architecture not only the us but beyond its crisp white columns lurks something much darker at deathly if you enjoyed this episode of haunted places and the spirits of the white house. Make sure to follow haunted places. Free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes air every thursday. Something dark lurked in the white house. Basement everyone knew it was there but they were not allowed to speak of it. They settled for a vague title uttered in whispers. The archie did not believe in such things in the least which is why he had been chosen by president. Taft to search the basement and reassure the staff that the only dangers that lurked in the shadows were their own imaginations. He'd been quite brave even board as he descended the stairs but as the cavernous basement curved over him the stories he had heard came. back to him unbidden. They said the darkness came to visit through touch peering over your shoulder as he worked occasionally deigned to show itself a boy with the defeated expression in large impossibly blue is like the crushing depths of the ocean. A sound rang out in the empty darkness. Archie jumped nearly dropping his candle. Archie forced himself to come down deep breaths in and out. He felt hot air on his neck. Archie wiped at the spot touching nothing but his own skin when he removed his hand. He felt it again rhythmic breath. He heard it now at a different rhythm from his own. Shallow breaths sudden lane. He felt an enormous pressure above straight down crushing is head and shoulders as if it was trying to force archie into hell. The heat against his neck grew more intense. Its legs shook with the effort of standing upright as the weight on his shoulder grew pushed his spine nearly folded into as he fell to the floor. The pressure disappeared. Archie slowly rose to his feet. A breath extinguished scandal. Archie took off. Running is candle fell to the floor thin trail of smoke rising from bent. Wake something exhaled in the darkness and the tiny flame leaped to life again. Inching ever closer to the hallway carpet Welcome to haunted places as a podcast. Original i'm greg pulse every thursday. I take you to the scariest. Theory is most hadid real places on earth this week. Join me on a supernatural journey to the white house the historic home of the president of the united states. Since one thousand nine hundred and discover why to this day. It's at podcast. We're grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and instagram. At podcast and twitter at podcast network. And if you enjoy today's episode the best way to help us is to leave a five star review. Wherever you're listening it really does help. We also now have merchandise head. Do podcasts dot com slash merch. For more information. Listen to more episodes of haunted places as well as podcasts. Other shows on spotify over ever else. You listen to podcasts. The white house is one of the united states most iconic works of architecture but the building we see today is the result of sporadic history of destruction and renovation. Initial construction was completed in eighteen hundred as part of what was then referred to as federal city. The us government opted to build a capital in virginia swamp in order to avoid tensions between parties and regions since both new york and philadelphia have served as temporary seats of government and the southern delegates. Were not pleased with the commute. The building is white. Thanks to its practicality. Rather than sim lime based whitewash was popular resume weather proofing porous stone in the late eighteenth century so the building we now call. The white house was given the same treatment. The name of the white house wasn't added to official documents until one thousand nine hundred eighty one. When president theodore roosevelt decided help distinguish the building from other executive mansions around the country from aaron sorkin. The west wing to shonda rhimes scandal to an alien ray decimating it on our most sacred national holiday. The president's home has become a frame of reference for all of american culture but the white house is also one of the most haunted locations in the nation's capital the ghosts that walk this venerable space range from benign to deeply malevolent. The center of abigail adams laundry follows the staff. Around abraham lincoln has delivered council to later presidents and dignitaries in their bed chambers. Dali madison keeps her rose garden safe but the less well known that these spirits are marked by tragedy. A british soldier is spotted holding a torch on the front lawn. Likely a remnant of the burning of washington during the war of eighteen twelve a woman bangs on the front doors of the house to beg for presidential pardon. And abraham lincoln's son william has been spotted by several people after dying at the tender age of eleven. Mary could not bring herself to crawl out of bed. The staff had checked on her several times. Already concerned about the railing of the storm outside. The windows were bending inwards because of the wind and lightning had already scorched the earth. But all she heard was horses. Mary hadn't road beside her husband as the carriage carried this son to his final resting place. It was not expected of her to attend and abraham hadn't insisted on her presence stoic as ever. She was grateful for that. The mere thought of willy being carted towards his grave was enough to move her tears. Her little man was only eleven years old and already his life. Had been snuffed out. She could no longer feel. Her heart was beating next to the cold skin for dead son as they lowered him into the colder her staff asked her to leave this room and head to a more pleasant one to marry there. Were only two other places in all the world. The first one. The green room was where small william had been laid with a sprig of laurel his lapel shop. That sprague with their own hands. Not trusting someone else to do it right. He needed to look dignified older than his scant. Eleven years. she could not watch as people came to greet willies corpse. The way they looked at him a sex object a tragedy rather than a living breathing boy held a nursed and loved. She hadn't returned to the room since the only other room that existed to her was the second floor. Guests drew willy had taken his last breaths there. The rain and wind buffetted the windows. Mary could not keep her tears at bay. A shiver race downer spy and continued to the rest of her body. She expected to pass but it continued to grow until her whole body. Shuck not with sobs now. It was worse as if we're body did not belong to her anymore. Perhaps it didn't perhaps she had died in that room with willie that day and some dark presence at overtaken her her breath came in half gasps dragging her back to the present inch by inch willie had dealt with something similar before he died he would shake so hard but his body would hit the floor his limbs were not his own in those moments and his breath had been crushed in his lungs and now the same spirit that had possessed him was coursing through her. Mary couldn't breathe her lung seized. No air would come in. As hard as she pushed against the sutton in her chest she could not find relief. She thrashed violently against the bed still gasping for air her maid. Sarah tried to calmer. Sarah held mary's body down but it didn't help much. Mary watched in horror as her own nails dug into sarah skin. More people poured into the room and tried to restrain her. A scream left her lips but she wasn't sure if it had come from her or the creature. They held her down her body bucked and bent lightning crack the sky open and she screamed again in. The corner of the room stood a small figure. It had not been there the second before. Mary's motions slow her throat ached and her limbs came back to her with a harsh searing sensation. The staff noticed her change and began to relinquish their tight grip. Mary kept her on the figure in the corner but every time she began to discern its shape it seemed a slide from is again finally the weight. Inner chest vanished. Mary staggered from her bed to the corner in pursuit of the figure ignoring the pleading hands. If we're concerned staff she tried to touch the darkness in the corner but her hand went through the shave as she grasped vainly at nothingness. The mass faded away. She called for to return. Desperate to know if willie was in the room with her. Perhaps he had fought god to come back to her. The figure did not return. Despite her pleas. Mary collapsed to saab's again. The staff told the president but his wife was once again indisposed. He stood on the threshold to the room. Never venturing further is is searching for her across an abyss that they would not dare cross a pain so profound that if they spoke its name. They feared both their hearts would give out mary. Sleep is fitful. the storm only made it worse. She finally fell into a stupor as the rain. Die down here is slid closed and your breath calm. She finally fell asleep from exhaustion than comfort then. She was awakened by a whisper just above her head her eyes itch and burned from her tears but she could make odyssey small oi just above her. Lightning flashed again and she got a clear vision of his features aids features and hers. It was her precious son return to her. His face was blue and they were deep red rings around his eyes. Willie's cheeks sunken in. He looked smaller than she remembered. He walked stiffly as those limbs weren't in his control. He was her son as he been parried. There was no light behind. His eyes and the laureland has lapel drooping drool spill from his mouth to the floor. She should have been frightened but all she felt was love an overwhelming desire to make him feel safe to hold him again. She called his name but he did not reply. She embraced him in -veloping him with her body. The way she had when he was very small his skin was cold as ice and his grip was tight. She struggled to breathe as he crushed. Midsection strangling clawing with talon like males. Mary pride his hands from her waist. This was not her son. Whatever had found a home in her son's body had killed him and now he had come to take hers. She would not let him. Mary stumbled to her feet on shaky legs. She took several steps away from him is heavy footsteps her much louder than a child. Steps should be. She raced for. The door would not open for her. She pulled at it hard. She felt the handled twist in her grip and the door finally opened. She's sprinted down the hallway searching for help but no one stirred. She looked for her husband but he wasn't in his bed. She rushed to his study knowing he would be working if he wasn't sleeping. She threw the door open to the study ran in expecting to find comfort in the warmth of her husband's long patent frame but a showed no sign of seeing her. There was none of the usual scratching of his writing instrument. No shuffle of papers as he spread his ideas out before him. It was then that the moon emerged from behind a cloud casting. Its pale light through the long windows. Abe sat back in his usual chair. Serenely as if watching a play only he could see he delighted at a joke that was inaudible to all at him but the laugh stopped in his throat as a gout of blood spurted from the back of his head. He lurched toppling forward to reveal a quivering mass of red and gray whereas beautiful brown hair should have been. Mary screamed something joined her. And it all went black as the sounds of murder and chaos fills her first lady mary todd. Lincoln was a fervent believer in spiritualism hosting seances and consulting mediums to commune with her mother who she lost at age. Six antra children would passed away at four and eleven these beliefs intensified in eighteen. Sixty two after william died from typhoid fever. While lincoln himself found morning his son helped him greater understand. The suffering of a union fractured by war. Mary retreated into herself. She could barely bring herself to leave her bed. She's spent a year in morning a full six months longer than was customary for the time period. Her grief led her to develop an illness that mimicked willy's own fatal illness and took several weeks to convince her to leave her bed after his death of full year after willie had passed. Mary began attending mesmerised sessions and sans. She hoped to hear from her son but several people were more interested in giving her predictions about the war effort and her husband rather helping her connect with your child. Eventually she began to host her own. Stance isn't the white house. There are eight recorded. Instances of seances in the red room and president. Lincoln attended several them. They brought her great piece but she was forced to abandon. The practice after public opinion turned suggesting that such beliefs weren't becoming a first lady but lincoln never dismissed his wife's beliefs. It is said that three days before his death he had a vision of a group of soldiers standing guard by his body after he had been killed by assassination. Mary todd. Lincoln is by far the most well known secret spirits to occupy the white house but as we'll soon find out some spirits seek the living whether they want to be found or not now back to the story the assassination of abraham lincoln is now described as the work of one man stage actor and confederate sympathizer john wilkes booth but the event was actually meant to be a multi pronged attack by several men against lincoln is vice president andrew johnson and his secretary of state william h seward. The attack on seward failed. And johnson's would be assassin balked at the last minute. The conspirators met frequently at a boarding house in washington. Dc belonging to a widow named. Mary sir hat her son john was brought into the conspiracy and she may have unknowingly or knowingly moved supplies for the conspirators the assassination investigation cast a very wide net and almost all of cigarettes residents were questioned or arrested by investigators. Mary surat was the only woman to be tried and convicted for the assassination and if the courts had their way. Mary would be the first woman executed by the federal government. The jury sent a note to the judge and sitting president. Andrew johnson but both johnson and judge advocate general. Joseph halt refused to consider clemency for the woman. The only person left to believe in mary as she headed to. The gallows was her daughter. Anna anna sarah talk to the incessant pounding of hammers. The workers had made their final adjustments to the gallows and her mother would be swinging by her neck sue. Her mother was innocent. But that didn't seem to matter anymore. The people wanted blood and her family would pay the cost of it and is pleased to meet with. The president had gone answered now. She stood among the crush of people. In the sweltering july heat waited for her mother to appear and it was twenty two and she was about to be an orphan. Despite her best efforts and his gaze continue to wander towards where her mother's final resting place would be. There was already a set of great sites carved too deep into the earth and empty weapon crates lakeside. Them not even give mary surat the dignity of a real coffin her mother was just another piece of cannon fodder in the civil war murmur spread to the crowd and looked around to see what the fuss was about. The prisoners had arrived all of them. Were hundred but was unmistakable. She was the only one of the four prisoners worrying dress panic race down her spine. She thought she was brave enough to see it but she was wrong. She could not stand cheering crowd and watch her. Mother's gentle neck was snapped by the swift short devastating fall but anna would not give up. Hope for weeks now cavalry. Riders had been stationed near the white house and outside the prison in anticipation of stay of execution for the federal justice systems. First female victim anna had begged and pleaded with the papers with judges and even at the white house itself but they had never let her in and the writers had never mounted their horses aside from coming today to see the very end of mary. At president johnson had not come no. He stayed silent in his great white house. Occupied with things more important than freedom and justice and mercy for him. It was just another day. She wondered if his pen scratched just two little as he signed his important documents if his ink spilled on his pristine white shirt if it reminded him of the blood that was about to be spilled because he had given into a mob. She heard the rabble outside her mother's boarding house with the unfortunate place where booth and his men met. She knew they wanted to tear her mother apart piece by piece. Perhaps they would tonight now. The riders were saddling up there. John finished the departure signal the end of her hope but she would not let it end like this. There was one person who could save her mother and she knew exactly where he was. She pushed through the crowd. To meet the cavalry. A writer smiled at her. She asked if he could spare a moment and take her back to town. The excitement of the execution had proven to be too much for her. She said these struggled with the decision for a moment before hopping down and helping her up onto the giant creature as he lifted his leg to step back on an kick the planks of the horse and they took off leading the cavalry officer on his back in the mud. She was distantly aware of the writer yelling at her to stop but there was no time. The prisoners were stepping up towards the platform. She could not waste a second. She galloped towards the white house now. She ducked under the trees. She could almost hear the lever for the platform. As the first body drop the body would jerk and twitch for minute says the crowd watched with that dissipation waiting for the moment when life would finally leave. The man's for anna swallow down her anxiety and kicked the flanks again her horse fodder nearly throwing her off but anna would not be deterred. She slowed movement for justice. Second giving the horse of few solid pats on the head. Calm tonto remorse gentle touch when she kicked this time the horse took off with her as though they were running from the very gates of hell as she neared the stately home of the nation's president and a slow the horse to attribute they would never let her in if they knew she came. But our only hope was to rush. She led from the horse and took off running. There were several guards stationed in the front. She raced for the door but they were much faster than her. They pulled her back roughly and she fought them at every turn. When kicking and punching didn't work. She bit the arm pushing into her stomach. The guard relinquished his. Hold for the briefest of seconds. But it wasn't enough for her to escape. There is still others holding tightly tour by now. The executioner must have moved on to the next prisoner. They would be allowed a few last words and then the news would be fitted over. There hooded head they would have no way of knowing what the drop was coming aside from the sudden sound of the lever letting gravity take its turn the thought of another person being killed a spectacle for an audience. That had already lost so much bile to her throat. She renewed her fighting and manage incapacitate one of the guards with a kick to the groin. The other was still holding her back but she reared like her horse hat and knocked him in the head. He let go of her in shock and she sprinted for the doors they were large and intimidating a symbol of the barrier between the rulers and the ruled and pounded on them with her whole body. The skin around your knuckles blit leaving trails of blood soon. Her mothers skirts would be swishing toward that wooden platform and there would be no more chances to save her at a screamed for someone to open the door. She could barely feel the pain in her hands over the rush of her own adrenaline. Her knocking grew more frantic. They had to let her in. No one came from her but the guards and a yelled at the house. She told him that that death the death of an innocent would show them as the rope choked her mother she kicked and punched using nails fists and teeth but they were too strong carrying her away like a small child. Throwing a tantrum imposing doors retreated into the distance. And i saw her mother waiting for her. There was no hood over her head now. She was standing on the threshold of the great building. The home her killer. She looked serene almost forgiving then. An invisible rope yanked pulling her up. She was being hanged but her neck did not break. She was twitching. We sustain searching for purchase on empty air and his throat was too dry scream. Her mother's body rose higher higher higher higher until it was just a speck in the early morning sun and it was still struggling with the men that held her when the illusory corpse fell back to earth crumbling into ash and blood on the night of july seventh eighteen sixty five immediately following. Mary saratsis execution. A mob descended on her boarding house. Nearly tearing the place apart for souvenirs before police intervened as mary's body was being cut down from the scaffold. Her head fell forward. A soldier remarked. She makes good behavior. He was reprimanded for his poor attempt at humor. Anna requested custody of her mother's body for years but she was never returned to her anisa. Rats life was defined by the death of her mother. She tried several times to speak with president johnson before ending up the steps of the white house crying for him to listen her brother. John was also on the run for his alleged contribution to the booth murder plot. Anna was forced to sell all her property in order to cover the legal fees. Her mother's case had racked up she moved to baltimore and married. William p tanri four days after their wedding tanri was fired from his job at the war department because of his relationship with anna the election between james a garfield and major general winfield scott hancock. The supervisor of mary rats execution brought the trial and the execution of the lincoln co-conspirators back to the public. I the press hounded anna for her thoughts and a fake interview ran in several papers. Her husband tanri stated publicly that the published interview was false and contended that he his wife remained neutral though he did say that the republican party was responsible for mary. Seurat's death garfield presidency also ended in an assassination for months after he took office and developed nervous condition that lasted the rest of her life. Though she died in new york the secret service staffers and visitors to the white house say they hear pounding on the front door. Along with sobs and screams for help. The pounding gets louder every july seven. The anniversary of mary sue death but she isn't the only woman that haunts the grounds anna's counterpart is far more malevolent than the morning girl could ever be now back to the story. The white house we know today is the result of over two hundred years of building and rebuilding to fit both the needs of the president and the country. The white house was designed by irish architect. James hogan mixing colonial neoclassical and renaissance styles. Thomas jefferson designed some of his own architectural improvements when he moved in eighteen. One but much of the building was lost during the burning of washington by the british during the war of eighteen twelve. The building wasn't restored until eighteen seventeen and was renovated again. In the early twentieth century which included an expansion of the west wing and the construction of the oval office. the whole building had to be restored. During the truman administration as the brick and sandstone structure was danger of collapsing. It was first lady. Jackie kennedy who gave the white house interiors their iconic look picking an era for major room in the building including federal french empire and victorian later renovations include a bowling alley in the basement added by richard nixon and a set of solar water heating panels which were installed by the carter administration before being removed by ronald reagan presidents george w bush and barack obama would later restore and expand the solar energy elements of the building. The renovation process is not without its architectural losses. One of the most tragic is the white house conservatory which was open to the public and supplied all the flowers for events at the residence. It was ultimately converted to office space to expand the west wing. But perhaps it's for the past because more than bees seemed to buzz between the rows of fully ch- nathan loved working at the white house. It made him feel like he was an integral part of the structure that kept the nation running even if his job was just patrolling at night after a string of assassinated precedence security was even more important and with the twentieth century about to dawn. Change was closer than ever. Nathan took his duties very seriously but he also had a secret hidden within the walls at the palatial building. He had a friend that no one knew She had never told him her name. Or even how. She came to stay at the white house but the to head past many a moonlit night together in the conservatory in between his rounds each time they met she was dressed in clothes. That must have been passed down from a relative. She was far too young to be wearing the stiff hoop skirts. That had been style nearly a century earlier but she liked to stay in around in them like a tornado. Come to life. Her hair shone as if there was a lantern hanging behind her head casting a celestial glow daughter and your voice was soft and sweet lavender. Honey he could find himself drowning it. If he wasn't careful she had approached him on one of his first watches. He tried to treat her like any unaccounted for guests on the grounds but she had been kind him innocent and generous in every way with her. He wasn't an overlooked part of the environment. He was a person with his own point of view and she wanted to hear it after that it had been hard to ask for anything. She was always more interested in him than anything else. Nathan had always felt that he was incredibly ordinary but this nameless woman devoured his stories with laughs and gasps that made him feel like a hero in his own life his beloved dog. Its first school the day. He got the job. In the nation's capital they were all triumphs of great interest. He worried at first that she was teasing him but she listened with such earnestness but he found himself incapable of doubting her. He took his obligation seriously but he relished his time with her sometimes he would cut cars so we could spend more time with her but she was so patient. Twenty astor to wait. Nathan finishes preliminary rounds and headed for the conservatory. The moon cast a soft glow through the center windows while the rest of the glass room remained shrouded in mystery. Tall plants loomed menacingly overhead and had on several occasions snagged him as he moved through the space but his friend had a way of us waging all his fears usually she was already there to greet him at the entrance tonight however she appeared to be missing. Nathan wasn't too concerned. The white house was large and the conservatory was made up of winding connected enclosures. She could be just around the next bet and rather than wait for her to appear. He decided to walk the length of the conservatory. As his lantern swung back and forth in his hand. The shadows change position making. It appear that the darkness was consuming the space bit by bit. He moved farther away from that central moonlight and closer to the corners. Exploring with mild disinterest. Something move down. The law. stretching the shadow of the plants into ghoulish creature from a child's fairy tale nathan placed his lantern down on the floor quietly and crept into one of the large rose. He moved aside tangling lease but there was no stray animal or sudden drop a foliage nor were there any signs of an intruder but the shadow kept growing. It ate up the center. Light and nathan watched silent curiosity as the plants around him to shrivel drew you world around. But he was allowed aside from that vegetation shifting the shadows. The laugh echoed off the walls with no clear source incite. Nathan tried to move his feet from the soil but they were held in place. He couldn't see the ground well enough to tell what was keeping back the harder he pulled the deeper his legs sunk into the earth. That had once looked shallow. His clothes were constricting around his legs. Nathan couldn't feel his toes anymore. They've been swallowed by whatever was holding them captive. He tried to push against the dirt but it was too deep and he was running out of energy chill wormed its way through his body eating. Its strength and his will. A sense of pervading hopelessness replaced his curiosity and fear. When there was nothing left but resignation a woman came to him in the dim light. He could only make out her dark clothes. And matted hair that stuck up in different directions. Her eyes glowed shadows. There was something familiar about her but his mind was too dark to suffocated to recognizer. Opened his mouth to speak but the sound tied the throat. She smirked at him. The palest sliver of moonlight falling over her half reveals phase lowers bloomed. Upper legs darcus blood and smelling strongly oppressed. Nathan's fear crawled through his body. His mind was his again but all else still blonder i taken. What little value you she said to him for the briefest moment her appearance changed she was the woman he had known for months his dearest friend then the woman evaporate while the smell of rust grew stronger nathan collapsed and when he woke he had no memory of the garden the woman or who he the white house. Conservatory was erected by president. James buchanan in eighteen fifty eight. The large glass enclosed area had three main rose for plants which were used in elaborate floral arrangements throughout the house and for any major events it was also a space open to the public in eighteen. Ninety seven a police officer entered the conservatory. Because he saw the room was illuminated and believed an intruder might be stealing some of the rarer plants. What he found instead was a tall beautiful lady dressed in the fashion of the early nineteenth century. He spoke with her for a while before she vanished. The officer could find no trace of the woman in the conservatory but a glow lingered in the space long after she left it. The officer was unnerved nerve but took no further action. The next month the same light appeared and the officer went to investigate again. He's saw the same woman and this time she touched him. He passed out when he told us superiors what had happened. They fired him. The conservatory itself was demolished in nineteen zero. Two to make room for more offices in the west wing. The mystery woman has not been seen since the white house has been the site of the united states greatest triumphs and greatest tragedies. It's history is ever changing and constantly growing with each person who takes on the highest office in the land in eighteen hundred then president. John adams wrote to his wife abigail. Shortly after taking residents in the building for the first time i pray heaven to bestow the best of blessings on this house and all that shall hereafter inhabit. It may none but honest and wise men ever rule under this roof no matter what your party. You're likely to say that that hasn't always been the case. Wisdom is slippery. Honesty is even trickier in politics. But the white house has nothing if not a sense of legacy. Each president and their family leave a mark in the residents and it leaves the market. Some are happy filled with picturesque easter parties. In the rose garden or presidential pops running down gilded halls others are darker secret wars and property damage resulting in fire. Death there seems to be a spirit for each beat in the white house's long life and that life is nowhere near done if we forget the past we often repeat it in the present but at sixteen hundred pennsylvania avenue. The past is very eager to make you remember. Thanks again for tuning into haunted places. We'll be back on thursday with a new episode for more information on the white house. Among so many sources we used. We found the work of the white house. Historical association extremely helpful to our research. You can find more episodes of haunted places as well as all the podcasts shows on spotify and wherever else you listen to podcasts. Several of you have asked how to help us. And if you enjoy the show. The best way to help is to leave a five star review and don't forget to follow us on facebook and instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast network. A next week haunted places was created by max cutler is a production of cutler media and is part of the podcast network it is produced by max and ron cutler with sound design by kenny hops production assistance by ron shapiro. Polly skin maggie admire and freddie beckley. This episode upon places was written by lil de ridder and jennifer shay. I'm greg poulsen.

white house Mary Archie mary surat abraham lincoln mary willie anna archie greg pulse Dali madison Mary todd drew willy inch willie sarah skin william willy Mary pride johnson tanri
The White House

Haunted Places

46:30 min | 1 year ago

The White House

"Something dark alert to the white house basement everyone knew it was there but they were not allowed to speak of it they settled for a vague title cluttered westberg it's the same archie did not believe in such things in the least which is why he had been chosen by president taft just searched the basement and reassure the staff that'd be only dangerous that lurked in the shadows were their own imagination he had been quite brave even board as he dissented the stairs but as the cavernous basement curved over the stories he had heard came back to him and they said the darkness came to visit to touch peering over your shoulder as you work occasionally dangerous show itself a boy with the defeated expression and large in possibly blue i like the crushing debt severe ocean a sound drying out to be empty darkness archie jumped nearly dropping scandal archie forced himself to come down deep breaths in in which he felt hot air on his neck archie wiped out the spot touching nothing but his own skin when he removed his hand she felt it again eurythmics brass he heard it added different rhythm from his own shallow brats suddenly he didn't norma's pressure from above straight down crushing is head and shoulders i said it was trying to force archie into hell the heat against his neck grew more intense his legs shook effort of standing up right as the weight on his shoulder grew white pushed his spine nearly folded into as he fell to the floor the pressure disappeared archie slowly rose to his feet brad extinguished scandal archie took off running his candle fell to the floor a trail of smoke rising from the bank tweak something exhale darkness and the tiny plane lip to life again inching ever closer to the hallway carpet welcome to haunted places a podcast original i'm greg pulses every thursday i take you to the scariest area's most haunted real places on earth this week join me on supernatural journey to the white house the historic home with the president of the united states since eighteen hundred and discover why to this day it's haunted at par cast were grateful for you our listeners you allow us to do what we love let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and instagram at par cast and twitter at par cast network and if you enjoy today's episode the best way to help us is to leave a five star review wherever you listening it really does help we also now have merchandise had to par cast dot com slash march search for more information listen to more episodes of haunted places as well as par cast other shows on spotify or wherever else you listen to podcasts the white house is one of the united states most iconic works of architecture but the building we see today is the result of both sporadic history of destruction an renovation initial construction completed in eighteen hundred as part of what has been referred to as federal city usa government opted to build a capital and the virginia slumped in order to avoid tensions between parties and regions since both new york and philadelphia have served us temporary seats the government and the southern delegates were not pleased with the commute the building is white thanks to its practicality rather the symbolism line based whitewash as popular as a means of weather proofing porous stone the late eighteenth century so the building we now call the white house was giving the same treatment the name of the white house wasn't added to official documents until nineteen o one when precedent theodore roosevelt decided it help distinguish distinguish the building from other executive mansion around the country from aaron sorkin the west wing to shonda rhimes scandal to in alien raid decimating at on are most sacred national holiday the president's home has become a frame frame of reference for all of american culture but the white house is also one of the most haunted locations in the nation's capital the ghost that walk this venerable space ranged from benign too deeply malevolent the center abigail adams laundry follows the staffer abraham lincoln has delivered council to leader president's end dignitaries in their bed chambers dolley madison keeps her rose garden say but the less well noted these spirits are marked by tragedy a british soldier is spotted holding a torch on the front lawn likely a remnant of the burning of washington during the war of eighteen twelve a woman bangs on the front doors of the house to beg for presidential pardon and abraham lincoln's own son willie has been spotted by several people after dying at the tender age mary could not bring herself to crawl out of bed the staff had checked on her several times already concerned about the railing of the storm outside the windows were bending in words because of the win enlightening had already scorched earth but all she hurt us horses mary hadn't road beside her husband as the karaj kerry their son to his final resting place it was not expected to attend an abraham had insisted on her presence stoic as ever she was grateful for that the mere thought to willie being carted towards his grave what's enough to move her cheers her little man was only eleven years old and already his flight had been snuffed out she could no longer feel her heart is beating next to the coal skin if you're dead son is they lowered him into the culture kristaps asked you to leave this room in to a more pleasant one but to marry there were only two other places in all the world the the first one the green room was worth small william had been with this breakup laurel slip out she had place that sprayed with their own hands not trusting someone else to do it right he needed to look dignified older that is scat eleven years she could not watch as people came degree willis corpse and the way they looked at him as an object a tragedy rather than a living breathing boy she had held a nurse i loved she had returned to the room since they only other room that access deter the second floor guess drew willie had taken his last breath spare the rain and win busted the windows mary could not keep her cheers at bay shiver race daughter spy and continued to the rest of her body she expected to pass but it continued to grow until her whole body shook not with sob's now it was worse as upper body did not belong to her anymore perhaps it didn't perhaps she had died in that room with whitley that day and some dark presence that overtaken breath came in half gassed dragging her back to the present inch by inch willie had dealt with something similar before he died he would shake so hard but his body would hit the floor is limbs were not his own in those moments and his breath had been crushed muslim and now the same spirit that had possessed him was coursing through her memory couldn't breathe her lungs sees no air would come in as hard as she pushed against the sudden wage and her chest she could not find relief she thrashed violently we against the bad still gasping for air premade sarah tried calmer sarah held mary's body down but it didn't tell much mary watched in horror as her own nails doug and just sarah skin skin more people poured into the room and try to restrain her a scream left her lips but she wasn't sure if it had come from her or the creature they held her down her body but the meant lightning crack the sky open and she screamed again in the corner of the room stood a small it had not been there the second before mary's motions slow her throat and their limbs came back to her with a harsh sharing sensation the staff know district change and began to relinquish their tight grip mary kept her corner but every time she began to discern shape it seemed to slide primer heiser can find by the way did their chest mary staggered number bed to the corner in pursuit at the daycare ignoring the pleading hand super concerned staff she tried to touch the darkness in the corner butter hand went through the shape as she grasped mainly nothingness thickness the mass face the way she called rich return desperate should know willie was in the room with her perhaps he had fought god to come back after the figure did not return despite lighter please mary collapsed it just stops again the staff told the president that his wife was once again indisposed he stood on the threshold to the rule never venturing further his eyes searching for her crossing the best that they would not dare cross a pain so profound that if they spoke its name they feared both their hearts would get mary sleepless stateful the storm only made it worse she finally fell into a stupor as the rain died her eyes closed andrew brandt com she finally fell asleep more from exhaustion comfort then she was awake west just above her head ice it to burn firmer tears but she could make a small boy just above her lightning flashed again and she got a clear vision of is features aids features enter it was her precious son returned to her his face was blue and they were deep red rings around his eyes willie's cheeks or something that he looked smaller then she remembered he walked stiffly is the limbs weren't in his control he was her son as he'd been buried there was no light behind his eyes and the laurel on his pal those droopy drool spill from his mouth to the floor she should have been frightened but all she felt it's an overwhelming desire to make you feel safe to hold him again she called his name but he did not reply she embraced him in developing him with their body the way she had when he was very small his skin as cold as ice and his grip was tight she struggled to breed as he crushed her midsection strangling clawing with talent like males mary pride his hands from her waist this was not her son whatever had found a home at her son's body had killed him and now you come take cars she would not let him mary stumbled to her feet on shaky legs she took several steps away from him is heavy footsteps followed her much louder than a child step should be she raised for the door it would not open for her she pulled that is hard she felt the handle twist inter grip the door finally opened she's sprinted down the hallway searching for help but no one sturt she looked for her husband but he wasn't as bad she rushed to his study knowing he would be working if he wasn't sleeping cheap through the door open to the study and ran it expecting to find comfort in the warmth of her husband's long padden frame but they showed no signs of seeing her there was none of the usual scratching up his writing instrument no shovel of papers sese spread his ideas before it was that the the moon emerged urged from behind the clouds casting its tail lights through the long when they sent back in his usual chair serene as watching the play only he could see she delighted at a joke that was inaudible to all but him but the last stop to this throat as a guy out of blood spurted from the back of his head he lurched toppling forward to reveal quivering masses read in gray where his beautiful brown brown hair should have been mary screamed something joined her ended all went black as the sounds of murder in chaos fills her first lady mary todd lincoln bourbon believer in spiritualism hosting seance is and consulting mediums to communing with her mother there she lost at age six antra children were passed away at four and eleven these beliefs intensified in eighteen sixty two after william died from typhoid fever while lincoln himself found and mourning his son helped him greater understand the suffering of a union fractured by war mary retreated into herself she could barely bring herself to leave her bed she spent a year in morning a full six months longer than most customary for the time period her grief led her to develop an illness that mimic the willies own fatal illness and it took several weeks to convince her to leave her bed after his death of full year after willie had passed mary began attending messmer as sessions and seance she hope to hear from her son but several people were more interested in giving her predictions about the war effort in her husband rather helping her connect with their child eventually she became hoster own census in the white house their age recorded instances of sensors in the red room than president lincoln attempted sexual that they they brought her great piece but she was forced to abandon the practice after public opinion turned suggesting that such beliefs were big coming up at first lady bug lincoln never dismissed his wife's believes it said that three days before his death he had a vision of a group of soldiers standing guard by his body after he had been killed by assassination mary todd lincoln is by far the most well known secret spirits to up occupied the white house but his will soon find out some spirits seek delivering whether they want to be found or not when you think of a criminal what do you picture do you picture a murderer a gangster a thief i bet you didn't think it could be the little old lady down the street who murdered her tenants or the housewife around the corner who killed own children every week v par cast original female criminals examines the psychology motivations and atrocities a female criminals they thoroughly investigate the lies and the world's most notorious female felons andy explore the stories behind their dangerous crimes you could listen to episodes on female criminals such as leona helmsley the queen of mean rose to the top of the new york city real estate scene but was eventually put on trial for fraud and tax evasion or patty first who is kidnapped by the symbionese liberation army and ultimately sided with her kidnappers and became eight full blown urban guerrilla check out the true crime podcast where women aren't just the victims search for an subscribed female criminals on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts and please don't forget to rate and review i love this patient love is kind but sometimes love is deadly some couples could appear happy but we don't know what happens behind closed doors every week the par cast network new podcast crimes of passion analyzes the relationship dynamics namic sense psychology that leads to be trail crimes and even murder new episodes of crimes of passion come out everyone's day you could listen to the first episode right now it's about the deaths of at winning will highlight whose dismembered bodies were found floating on the surface of the lake look for upcoming episodes on the arena bobbitt the boyfriend killer jodi arias an amy fisher end joey bosa fuko be shorter checkout crimes of passion and find out what happens when true love meets true crime search for and subscribe to crimes of passion wherever you listen to podcast again search crimes of passion or visit par cast dot com slash passion passion jemison now now back to the story be assassination of abraham lincoln is now described as the work of one matt stage actor in confederate sympathizer john wilkes booth but he eventually actually meant to be a multi pronged attack by several matt against lincoln is vice president andrew johnson and his secretary of state william h stewart be attack on seward fails then johnson's would be assassin blocked at the last minute the conspirators met frequently at a boarding house in washington dc belonging to a widow named mary sir asked her son john was brought into the conspiracy and she may have unknowingly or knowingly moved supplies but the conspirators lee assassination investigation cast a very wide net in almost all of surrounding residents were question or arrested by investigators mary sir at must be only woman to be tried and convicted pretty assassination and if the courts had their way mary would be the first woman executed by the federal government the jury sent a note to the judge an sitting president andrew johnson but both johnson an judge advocate general joseph poll reviews to consider clemency for the woman he only person left to believe in mary that she headed to the gallows was her daughter canister rats will be in session pounding hammers the workers had made their final adjustments to the gallows venture mother it'd be swinging by her neck sue her mother was innocent but that didn't seem to matter anymore the people wanted blood enter family would pay the cost of it as pleased to meet with the president had gone unanswered shirt now she stood among the crush of people in the sweltering july heat waited for her mother to appear and i was twenty two and she was about to be an orphan despite their best the efforts as gays continue to wander towards her mother's final resting place will be there is already a set of grave sites car too deep into an empty weapon crates lakeside that they would not even mary surrounds the dignity of a real coffin her mother was just another piece of kennex fighter in the civil war murmurs spread to the crap out of looked around and see what the fuss about the prisoners singers had arrived all of them were hood but his mother was unmistakable she will be only one of the four prisoners wearing address panicle raced out her spine she thought she was brave they're not just see it but she she could not stand in a cheering crowd watches her mother's gentle necklace snapped by the swift short devastating fall but anna would not give up hope for weeks now cavalry riders had been station near the white house an outside the prison in anticipation of a stay of execution for the federal justice systems first female male victim had begged and pleaded with the papers but the judges and even at the white house itself but they had never let her in the writers had never amounted their horses aside from coming today just see the the very end of mary sir president's johnson had not come no he stayed silent in his great white house occupied but things more important than freedom and justice and mercy for him it was just another day she wondered if his pen scratch just a little less he signed his important documents if this stinks build on his pristine white shirt if it reminded the blood that was about to be spilled because he had given into a mob she heard the rabble outsider mothers boardinghouse would be unfortunate place where booth and his men met she knew they wanted to tear her mother apart piece by piece perhaps they would tonight now the writers resettling out there john finished the departure signal the end of her hope but no she would not let end like this there was one person who could save her mother and she knew exactly where he was she pushed through the crowd to meet the calorie a writer smiles at her she asked if he could spare moment in take her back to town out the excitement of execution had proven to be too much for her she said he struggled with a decision for a moment before hopping down and helping her up onto the giant creature as he lifted his leg just step back on antic kicked the so the horse and they took off leaving the cavalry officer on his back in the mud she was distantly aware of the writer yelling at her stop but there was no time the prisoners were stepping up towards the platform she could not waste a second she gallup towards the white house that she dumped under the trees she could almost hear deliver for the platform as the first body drop the buddy would churkin twitch per minute says the crowd watch with anticipation waiting for the moments when life would finally leave demands for swallow down her anxiety and kicked the flex again her horse fodder nearly throwing her off but i would not be deterred she slow drew movement for justice second giving the horse a solid pats on the head it com tundra more gentle touch when she picked this time the horse took off with her as though they were running from the very gates of hell she near the stately homer the nation's precedent anna slowed the horse to attract they would never let her ended up they knew how she came butter only hope was to rush she let from horse and took off running there were several guard station to the front she race for the door but they were much faster than her they pulled her back roughly and she fought him at every turn when kicking and punching didn't work she bit arm pushing into her stomach the guard relinquished is hold the briefest of seconds but it wasn't enough for her to escape there were still others holding tightly to her by now executioner must have moved onto the next prisoner they would be allowed a few last words and then the news would be fitted over there what it they would have no way of knowing what the drop us coming aside from the sudden sound to the lever letting gravity take stir the pot of another person being killed a spectacle for an audience that had already lost so much broader viable to her throat she renewed her flight had managed incapacitate the tate one of the guards with the kick to the growing neo there was still holding her back but she reared like her horse has knocked him in the head he let go of courage and she's sprinted for the doors they were large ending to a symbol of the barrier between the rulers the rule and up pounded on them with their whole body the skin around your knuckles split leading trails flight suit and her mother's skirts would be swishing she tort that wouldn't platform and there would be no more chances to safer had a screamed for someone to open the door she could barely feel the pain in their hands over the rush of her own adrenaline her knocking grew more frantic they had to let her in no when king but the guards and he yelled at the house she told them that that death the death of an innocent would choke them as the rope choked mother she kicked and punched using nails fists and teeth but they were too strong carrying her away like a small child throwing a tantrum as be imposing doors retreated into the distance and i saw her mother waiting for there is no hood over her head she was standing on the threshold of the great building the whole her killer she looked serene almost forgiving them an invisible roping pulling her up she was being but her neck did not break sheba's twitchy we sustain searching for purchase on empty this throw twist to dry discreet her mother's body rose slightly higher higher until it was just a spec it'd be early morning and it was still struggling with the men that held here wendy illusory corks fell back to her crumbly arosh blood on the night of july seventh eighteen sixty five immediately following mary syrups execution a mob descended on her boardinghouse nearly tearing the place apart for souvenirs before the police intervene mary's body was being cut down from the scaffold her head fell forward a soldier remarked she makes a good he was reprimanded for his pour attempt at humor anna requested custody of her mother's body for years but she was never returned to her anus rats life was defined by the death of her mother she tried several times to speak with the president's shots and before ending up on the steps the white house crying for him to this and her brother john was also on the run for his alleged contribution to the booth murder plot anna was forced to sell all her property in order to cover the legal fees her mother's case had racked up she moved to baltimore and married william pete connery four days after their wedding connery was fired from his job at the war department because of his relationship with the election between james eight garfield feels and major general winfield scott hancock the supervisor of mary sir rats execution brought the trial andy execution of the lincoln coconspirators back to the public on the press hounded anna for her thoughts and fake interview ran in several papers her husband connery stated publicly that the published interview was false and contended that he and his wife remained neutral though he did say that the republican party was responsible for mary threats death garfield presidency also ended in an assassination for months after he took office anna developed a nervous condition that lasted the rest of her life bo she died in new york the secret service staffers end visitors to the white house say they hear pounding on the front door along with stops in screams for help the pounding gets louder every free july seventh anniversary of mary surprise but she isn't the only woman that haunts the grounds anna's his counterpart which is far more malevolent the morning girl could ever be now back to the story the white house we know today is the result of over two hundred years of building in rebuilding to fit both the needs of the president and the country the white house was designed by irish architect james hoping mixing colonial neoclassical an renaissance styles thomas jefferson designed some of his own architectural tech show improvements when he moved in eighteen o one but much of the building those lost during the burning of washington by the british during the war of eighteen twelve the building was restored until eighteen seventeen animals renovated again in the early twentieth century which included an expansion of the west wing and the construction of the oval office the whole building had to be restored during the truman administration as the brick and sandstone structure was in danger of collapsing it was first lady jackie kennedy who gave the white house interiors there iconic look picking a narrow for each major room in the building including federal french empire victoria later renovations include a bowling alley in the basement added by richard nixon and a set of solar water heating panels which were installed by the carter administration before being removed by ronald reagan presidency george w bush and brock obama would later be store and expand the solar energy elements of the building the renovation process is not without its architectural losses one of the most tragic is the white house conservatory which which is open to the public and supplied all the flowers for events at the residents it was ultimately converted to office space to expand the west wing but perhaps it's from the past because more than bees seem seemed to buy between the rose for nathan loved working at the white house it made him feel like he wasn't integral part of the structure that kept the nation running even if his job was just patrolling at night after a string of assassinated precedence security was even more important and what the twentieth century a bump to don't change is closer than ever nathan took his duties very seriously but he also had a secret hidden within the walls of the palatial building he had a friend that no one knew she had never told her name or even how she came just stay at the white house but the two had passed many moonlit night together the conservatory in between his each time they met she was dressed in closed that must have been passed down from a relative she was far too young to be wearing the stiff hoops skirts that had been style nearly a century earlier but she liked the spin around in them like a tornado come to life her hair show as if there is lantern hanging behind her head casting a celestial glow daughter andrew voice was so sweet lavender honey that he could find himself drowning if he wasn't care she had approached tim on one of his first watches you try to treat her like any unaccounted for a guest on the grounds but she had been kind of innocence and generous and everywhere with her he wasn't an overlooked part of the environment he was a person with his own point of view and she wanted to hear it after that it's been hard to ask her anything she was always more interested in him than anything else nathan it always felt that he was incredibly ordinary but this nameless woman devoured his stories with laps and gas snap made him feel like a hero in his own life his beloved dog its first day of school the day he got the job in the nation's capital they were all triumphs of great interest he worried at first but she was teasing but she listened with such earnestness but he found himself in capable of doubting he took his obligation seriously but he relished his time with her sometimes he would cut corners so we could spend more time with her but she was so patient when he asked her to wait nathan finishes preliminary rounds and headed for the conservatory the moon cast a soft glow through the center windows while the rest of the glass room remained shrouded in mystery tall plants aloom menacingly overhead hat on several occasions smacked tim as he moved through the space but his friend had a way of us waging all his sphere usually she was already there degree timothy insurance tonight however she appeared to be missing nathan wasn't to consider the white house what's large and the conservatory was made up of winding connected closures she could be just around the next batter rather than wait for her to appear he decided sided to walk the length of the conservatory as his lantern swung back and forth on his hand the shadows change position making it appear that the dark this was consuming space bit by bit he moved farther away from that century of moonlight and closer to the corners exploring with mild disinterest something move down the stretch the shadow of the plants into a ghoulish creature from a child's fairy tale nathan please just lantern down on the floor and crept into another large rose he moved decide tangling leads but there is no stray animals or sudden drop a fully edge nor were there any signs of an intruder but the shadow kept growing eight of the central eight nathan watched and simon curiosity as the plants around him became shrivel world around but he was alone aside from the vegetation shifting the shadows the laugh echoed the walls with no clear source and nathan tried to move his feet from the soil but they were held in place he couldn't see the ground well enough to tell us keeping it back but the harder he pulled the deeper deeper his legs sucking to be earth that had once look shallow his closed constricting around his legs nathan couldn't feeless toes anymore they've been swallowed by would ever was holding up a captive he tried to push against the dirt but it was too deep and he was running out of energy chill wormed its way through his body heating up its strength angeles will a sense of beating hopelessness replaced placed his curiosity and fear when there was nothing left but resignation a woman came to him in the damn age you could only make out her dark clothes and matted hair i got stuck up in different directions rise glow shadows there was something familiar about but his mind was too dark to suffocated to recognize her he opens his mouth to speak but the sound tied to district she's smart dead the playlist sliver of the moon falling over her half repeals lowers bloomed up her legs darkest blood smelling strongly ross nathan sphere crawl through his body and his mind was his again but all else still blown i have taken what little value you she said for the briefest moment her appearance changed she was the woman he had known from months is dearest friends then the woman evaporate while the smell of rush crew strong when they think collapsed and when he well he had no no memory of the card the woman who was the white house conservatory was arrested by precedent james buchanan in eighteen fifty eight the large glass enclosed area had three main rose per plants which were used an elaborate floral arrangements throughout the house and for any major events it was also a space open to the public in eighteen ninety seven a police officer entered the conservatory because he saw the rumors illuminated and believed an intruder might be stealing some of the river plants what he found instead was tall beautiful lady dressed in the fashion be early nineteenth century he spoke with her for a while before she finished be officer could find no trace of the woman in the conservatory but a glow lingered in the space long after she left it lee officer on earth but took no further action the next month the same light appeared andy officer went to investigate again he saw the same woman and this time she touched him he passed out when he told his superiors what had happened they fired him the conservatory itself was demolished in nineteen oh two to make room for more offices in the west wing the mystery it has not been seen since the white house has been the site of the united states greatest triumphs and greatest tragedies its history is ever changing and constantly growing with each person who takes on the highest office in the land in eighteen hundred then president john adams wrote to his wife abigail shortly after taking up residence in the building for the first time i pray heaven to bestowed the best of blessings on this house and all that shell hereafter inhabited main none but honest unwise matt ever rule under this roof no matter what you're party you're likely just say that that hasn't always been the case wisdom is slippery honesty is even trickier in politics but the white house has nothing if not a sense of legacy each precedent and their family leave marked in the residence and it leaves a mark in turn some are happy filled with picturesque easter parties in the rose garden or presidential pups running down gilded halls mothers are darker secret wars and property damage resulting in higher death there seems to be a spirit each beat the white house's long life and that life is nowhere near done if we forget the past we also repeated to the present but at sixteen hundred pennsylvania avenue the past is a very eager to make you remember thanks again for tuning into haunted places will be back on thursday with a new episode for more information on the white house amongst so many sources we used we found the work of the white house historical association extremely helpful to are research you can find more episodes of haunted places as well it's all a par casts other shows on spotify and wherever else you listen to podcasts several you have asked how to help us end if you enjoy the show the best way to help is to leave a five star review and don't forget to follow us on facebook and instagram at par cast and twitter at par cast network see next week haunted places was created by max cutler is a production of cutler media and is part of the par cast network it is produced by max and ron cutler sound design by kenny hobbs production assistance by ron shapiro bureau paulie skin maggie admire and freddie beckley this episode of haunted places was written by little de ritter and jennifer shea i'm greg pulse don't forget listen to female criminals investigates the lies of the world's most notorious female felons an explores the stories behind their dangerous crimes the shorter search for and subscribe to a female criminals on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts and please don't forget to rate and review don't forget to check out the par cast network newest show crimes of passion it brings you stories of loving

archie taft white house president eleven years two hundred years six months three days four days
38. Todd Arrington on James Garfield

This American President

1:13:44 hr | Last month

38. Todd Arrington on James Garfield

"Support for this. Podcast comes from progressive. What would you do with an extra eight hundred dollars. Buy a plane ticket paid on your student. Loan treat yourself to those shoes. You benign with progressive. You could find out drivers who switch and save save an average of seven hundred ninety six dollars on car insurance get your quote online at progressive dot com and see how much you could be saving national average annual car insurance savings by new customer survey who save with progressive and twenty nineteen in nineteen sixty four. Barry goldwater campaign. Ran the slogan in your heart. You know he's right. It was a plan. Gold waters conservative. Positions in response is opponent. Lyndon johnson used the counter slogan in your guts. You know he's nuts. The american people like lbj's response and voted for him in a landslide. Catchy lines like these can help make or break an entire campaign you can find out about the slogans and more in words to win by a new book from apollo publishers. This book is brimming with five hundred color images from american presidential campaigns covering every election from nineteen hundred to twenty twenty. And it showcases. The visuals and slogans that defined america's leaders for millions of voters and change the course of history. We are giving away five copies of words to win by five lucky listeners. To sign up for the book. Moab click on the link in the description to subscribe at the end of march every subscriber will be entered into the drawing for the giveaway again. Sign up for the book giveaway of words to win myint on the lincoln the description or go our website this president dot com to subscribe. Today's guest is benjamin t arrington. He goes by todd arrington and he came out with a book. It's called the last lincoln republican the presidential election of eighteen eighty. And we're very excited to have him on the show to talk about a very brilliant fascinating president One of the more obscure presidents in american history. But i'm really happy to have him here. Because i think that oftentimes these presidents that are considered obscure are quite frankly. They're under appreciated. Their the kind of presidents that maybe they didn't serve during a one of the famous periods in american history and unfairly often. they're called mediocrities. But that's not the case. And so todd has done a lot of research on james garfield and so we're glad to have you here on the show. Welcome todd well thanks. Thanks for having me on and I appreciate the chance to talk about president that Yes i think has gotten unfairly labeled as obscure so. I'm trying we're a lot of us are trying to change that now so well so you have written this book but you in your day job. You work at his historic site. Is that right. yeah i do. I've worked for the national park service for a little over twenty one years now and the last eleven of those years i thin at James a garfield national historic site. We're in mentor. Ohio which is probably twenty five minutes or so east of downtown cleveland and we are garfield home and farm. Or what's left of that property. And this is also the site from which he ran for. President in eighteen eighty. That's great so you. In addition to going through the scholarly endeavor of writing a book you basically you live and you breathe the place that he lived in. You know the setting and everything like that. So there's an added dimension to this. That's true you know. I i'm i'm you know a national park service employee of course but i'm also a historian and the not only the park service background but the academic background and So this when. I came to this park Again about eleven years ago it was a perfect fit for me because it allowed me. Of course continue my my career but also really get into a place where the history was was history that i really was interested in the civil war era reconstruction thing so this has been a great fit for me professionally and personally and then really the opportunity to write this book. was was a wonderful opportunity as well and i guess i should also say i have you know. Wonderful co workers Who money of whom have been there longer than me and no garfield as well or better certainly better than i do so you know really anyone that probably could have written this book but You know. I'm just the one that that that happened to take it on. But yeah so. I do i. I kind of in breathe garfield every day right now. Give me an idea of the context of america in eighteen eighty. We know it's a decade and a half since the end of the civil war the gilded age as you talked about reconstruction people think about robber barons. What do people get right. And what do people get wrong about this era. Well i mean this is as you say. It's post civil war in in in many people's minds it's really even post reconstruction now. There's this what. I think you know is is obviously an incorrect of view that restricts ended really as part of the compromise that saw rutherford b hayes assume the presidency in eighteen seventy seven after this very disputed election between he and and the democrat. Samuel j tilden. I would argue. That reconstruction was not over. And i would also argue that one of the few Republicans who was saying that publicly was james garfield some many republicans by eighteen eighty really just wanted to be done with this whole issue of what had led to the civil war and dealing with slavery and then dealing with with emancipation and reconstruction and and trying to provide Physical safety and equality for for the formerly enslaved in the south a lot of republicans were jus- kind of done with all of this they. They felt like they had done everything that they said they would do in that they needed to do they had ended ended slavery. They had Embraced emancipation and they had passed. Three reconstruction amendments to the constitution And so they they were really looking for for other issues and they were looking for other alliances that would keep the party in power and they were finding those primarily with industrialists and financiers people like that this is really where the republicans start to to Build up the reputation as being the party of big business and there were a few very vocal republicans and foremost among them. James garfield who was still telling the republican party. No we still have a lot of work to do here to to to guarantee the safety and the quality of the formerly enslaved but even more so to really make sure that we we're. We're saying that we are that we really are who say that. We are whether it's who we said we were in seventeen seventy six when we wrote that all men are created equal or whether it's the ensuring the new birth of freedom that abraham lincoln talked about in the gettysburg address so garfield is in eighteen. Eighty one of the republicans. That still really pushing this year this issue and trying to to keep republicans focused on who they are as a party and of course. That's a party that was formed in the in the mid eighteen fifties that was dedicated to at least some degree of equality for everyone racial economic political legal. What have you yeah. that's fascinating and one thing is that he kind of becomes this. It's kind of like the the the voice in the wilderness or kind of the conscience of the party in that time when the party was just basically doing what was in its political incentive which was to move on from that and become kind of the protector of american prosperity with tariffs. But here's garfield saying wait a minute. What was what. What was the point of the civil war right and what was what did we gain from it and looking at it from from the standpoint of well. There's this issue with four million african americans who've been who've been freed. What is lincoln's legacy going forward there. Yeah absolutely and there's in fact there's and i i can't remember the exact quote. It's escaping me. But there's a great quote in his diary where he's this is before he runs for president. So this would be probably late. Eighteen seventies are so where he's talking about going to a soldier's reunion and he makes this comment that it's it's One of these reunions. That's just too much of the old blue and gray. And he's really. I think foreshadowing What is what is about to happen with the with the whole idea of the lost. Cause that you know the that's the southerners fought nobly and it didn't matter what they were. What the two sides were fighting about and it was all about you. Know disagreements over the constitution or states rights are basically anything but slavery and of course james garfield who was vocally anti-slavery as a young man before the civil war Two days after fort sumter writes this powerful letter that i quote all the time where he says in the letter. Two days after fort sumter the war will soon assumed the shape of slavery and freedom. The world will so understand it. And i believe the final outcome will redound to the good of humanity so here two days after the war begins. James garfield is already got pegged. He's saying it's all about slavery and you know. Reputable historians today obviously agree with that that you know lots of other issues floating around out there but ultimately they can all be traced back to disagreements over slavery and the expansion of slavery and garfield is doing exactly what you said. There in in athlete is eight hundred eighty saying. What was this all about. If we're just going to abandon The the formerly enslaved. And we're going to leave them to the devices of white southern democrats who are moving very overtly and very quickly to reestablish white supremacy as quickly as possible on the south So you know. This is kind of the position. Garfield is in in eighteen. Eighty where he's trying to convince his fellow republicans. We still have a lot of work to do here. right now. If i were to ask you just characterizing garfield background and to do that succinctly. How would you describe him. I mean there. There are things that we know about him he. He was seemed like a very scholarly person. He seemed like a devout christian What what else is there that To kind of give a picture of what he was like on in his rise to the presidency yet he he. He was born very four He was he was the last president who was actually born in a log cabin His father died when when the future president was only about eighteen months old so he never really knew his dad because of his dad's very early death Very close with his mother growing up he was the youngest of four children so he was kind of the baby of the family And he was what you said he. He was an academic. He was a scholar Before were politics or before the army And you know what he was. Quite quite devout a devout member of the disciples of christ So he was religious. You know his his entire life but he also was. He was very curious and he wasn't you know he didn't get bogged down by religious dogma. He he was very open to science and two different interpretations of things and you know he was very willing to consider evolution vs creation and for example So yeah he did come from From from northeast. Ohio really the the bulk of his life other than washington. Dc and in a couple of years in the army was spent here and the the the greater cleveland area as we would think of it now but yeah. He came from You know a a very poor background. He worked you know he did farm work. He worked canal boy on the ohio. Neary canal awhile and then you know. His mom convinced him to go to school and he found he had a talent for for education. And you know. He swore that no one in school would ever out work him and so he sometimes studied up to twenty hours a just to make sure he was getting the best grades in the class. Oh very driven very ambitious. And then this carried onto him going on to williams college up in massachusetts. That's where he really got infused with with abolitionism And then came back to ohio started. Teaching became a what they call the principle of. What's now a private liberal arts for your college And then of course. When the civil got into politics became a republican was elected to the ohio state senate in in the late eighteen fifties and he was there as a part time state senator but also as this college principal or president as we think of today when the civil war came in and of course joined the The union armies right so he. He really had one of those. Very impressive rises in terms of status is like self made person basically self made man in many ways. It sounds like yeah. Yeah that's that's exactly right. I mean he really is a very classic american you know. Pull himself up by the bootstraps horatio. Alger kind of kind of story. You know born literally dirt poor and in a log cabin with a dirt floor and then you know in just forty nine years of life becomes an army general in a congressman and a senator elect and then eventually the president of the united states. It's interesting because so i in the title of your book. He's the last lincoln republicans so there's kind of this lineage. That year pointing out that he had from the lincoln era of lincoln's work with the thirteenth amendment and emancipation program so on and so forth And yet lincoln was also somebody that wanted to unify the country in as far as the after the civil war and what i thought was ironic about. That was that it sounded like garfield didn't have at least during lincoln's presidency. He didn't have a very high opinion of lincoln. he called him a second rate illinois lawyer. Which is what many people called him at the time. What was his relationship or opinion of lincoln. And how did that evolve. Yeah that's a great question and you're absolutely right. That garfield did express some frustration with lincoln. During lincoln's presidency Garfield very very dedicated republican. So he's you know very excited when when lincoln is elected in eighteen sixty And obviously as. I've already shared he he. He has very strong opinions about the issue of slavery and about secession When that comes to pass It garfield really is frustrated by lincoln during the civil war because as i quoted that letter a minute ago you know where garfield says two days after sumpter that. It's all about slavery well then feels like the minute the confederates fired on fort sumter abraham. Lincoln should have said we. The united states are fighting. Not only to preserve the union but also to end slavery in the united states because garfield was so passionate about this issue about abolition Lincoln should come out and say what the war was really all about. Everybody knew it even southerners even though they didn't want to admit it and certainly after the war tried to just scrub any mention of slavery from memoirs or anything like that but but You know garfield was just frustrated with lincoln because he really felt like lincoln should should say day one. This war is is is about abolishing ending slavery because how in the world do you put the country back together if the war is truly about slavery with that issue. Still hanging over everything. How do you put that. How do you put the country back together. Negotiate a peace with south and bring the south back into the into the united states but allow them to keep slaves. He can't be done. Lincoln obviously knew this from day. One lincoln also and i think history has borne lincoln out on this issue. Lincoln also had a very good sense of timing and when was the country going to be ready to accept that and it was not on april twelfth eighteen sixty one so of course we all know the story that you know lincoln waits and waits and waits until finally he you know in the summer of eighteen sixty two Writes the emancipation. Proclamation draft shares it with his cabinet. William seward the secretary of state insists that he wait until there's a military victory that comes advantium in september of eighteen. Sixty two and therefore he he then issues the preliminary proclamation on september twenty second eighteen sixty two and garfield by the way is overjoyed by us. You know he. He said the president's heart is right. I hope he will be able to you. Know to carry it out. Carry out this this mission to the full but that's what he also makes the comment that strange that that such a grand proclamation would come from a second rate illinois lawyer so so you know he he. He is frustrated by lincoln because he felt lincoln's should should have made it about slavery from should have said it was about slavery from from day. One that's that's very interesting because much has been made of the fact. That lincoln was not an abolitionist. In the way. That william lloyd garrison was an abolitionist and lincoln was somebody who merely wanted to restrict slavery slaves expansion and hope that it would die a natural death as opposed to really strike at the institution felt that that would do more harm than good. Where did garfield fall on these issues. I mean i. I don't get the sense that he was a william. Lloyd garrison abolitionist. But i i get the sense that he wasn't as pragmatic as lincoln was lincoln. Obviously as president has the deal with running the war and not angering the border states and whatnot. How did it sounded like garfield. Was you know what i mean like. Where where did he kind of fall in that spectrum. Well i mean certainly. he's much more if you wanna use the term radical on abolition then lincoln and you know people many people think you know. Lincoln was an abolitionist. And that's why he was elected in eighteen sixty and therefore he ended slavery. And that's just not the case at all. You know lincoln. Although he personally was was was very much opposed to slavery he didn't feel like at least before the war began. He had any constitutional authority to do anything about it where it existed the the issue there as you mentioned. Is this this idea of the expansion of slavery that's really what republicans were were concerned about at the beginning really when the party was formed A reaction to the kansas nebraska act is is really the catalyst that allowed the party to form. So you know. Lincoln comes into the white house And even at that point as president is not an abolitionist yet. so garfield certainly is more you know more more Serious about abolition. At that. Point buddy i i would agree that. He's not quite to the level. Of like a william lloyd garrison who you mentioned because garrison is one of these one of these abolitionists who is so So so opposed to slavery that you know he feels. The constitution is illegitimate. Because it you know in the form of the of the the three fifths. Compromise basically is a pro slavery document and it allows for the existence of slavery so go garrison is more radical on this. Then even frederick douglass because frederick douglass for example who knew garfield and spoke for garfield during the campaign and you garfield actually ended up getting civil service position to once. He became president. Frederick douglass Feels that the constitution itself can can't we can work with this. But obviously there needs to be some amendments. There needs to be some there needs to be some changes to the document. So that it it. It provides Equality before the law for for everyone regardless of race. So garfield is i. Guess if you're gonna put lincoln on one end and and garrison on the other than you know yet you would put you would put james garfield in the middle there. I guess but you know. We know of at least two instances that are verified. And and you know with evidence that of garfield helping You know encountering Enslaved people who are trying to escape and are moving through the north and he helps them You know he. He was serious enough about it to at least go that far. So yeah he. He's but i would say between garrison and lincoln he he you'd put him in the middle right now. What was his rise in the house. As a congressman. What was that like what what. How did he was kind of the secret to his success. Well of course when when he when he ran for congress the first time which was in eighteen sixty two he was in the army. You know he had. He added he had joined the union army by by this point in eighteen sixty two. He was a brigadier general. He had served you know he had been a troop. Command commanded a regiment commanded a brigade And republicans in northeast. Ohio wanted to put him up for congress and he basically said well. I'm not coming home to campaign But otherwise do what you will. And so they put his name up and of course he was serving in the army and so he he and this was the was a relatively reliably republican area. So he didn't have any trouble being elected and then of course he had this very powerful sort of inner debate with himself about what should really go to the house of representatives. Or should he stay in the army because the war of course is still going on as as as the system was set up then he's elected in the fall of eighteen sixty two but that next congress doesn't you know isn't seated until december of sixty three so he's got over a year to still stay in the army and that's exactly what he does and you know. He goes to washington at one point and and Actually gets a Gets a an gets an audience. Lincoln and And lincoln you know. Basically asks lincoln. What should i do. Obviously lincoln tells him you know. He's got more generals than he knows what to do with but he doesn't have enough reliable republican votes in congress and so garfield says i didn't feel it was appropriate to consult my own wishes when the president asked me to go to congress. So that's what he does and he stays in the house for the next seventeen years so he's in the house really up until he's nominated to be the republican presidential candidate so he gets very very skilled at learning how the rules of the house works. you know. He becomes very highly regarded as a speaker as an orator and he. You know he at one point wants to become speaker of the house and that doesn't work out because the republicans don't win the majority in that next election. He is what we would think of today as the house. Minority leader for a while But he you know he champions civil rights legislation the house And at one point in eighteen seventy nine he makes a very powerful speech The democrats were were basically threatening what we would of today as a government shutdown Which we've all been through a few of those But democrats basically threatening to not pass appropriations for the entire federal government unless the republicans agreed to you know to pull federal federal marshalls out of the south And of course the marshals were in the south to protect african americans especially when they went to vote and and garfield gave an extremely powerful speech that i know some historians including heather cox richardson. Who's the sort of the the preeminent historian of the republican party. Right now Have said you know. This is the speech that really made garfield a potential presidential candidate in eighteen eighty where he just absolutely shreds the democrats in this speech on the floor of the house in march eighteen. Seventy nine about the the their threat to not pass appropriations so he's in the house for a good long time seventeen years and really serves as a he serves as the chairman of the ways and means committee for awhile. He's the house minority leader Doesn't quite make it to become speaker but really does just about everything else in the house in seventeen years and that speech referring to that's that's called the revolution in congress speech that right correct. Yeah yeah and i did I did spend some time on that. When i wrote in that chapter of the book talking about this speech what he said what he meant What the situation was at the time. And then also the fact that. Hey you know he really got some very very good press from that that speed and again as dr. Richardson says you know that. That's the speech in her mind. At least that really made him a very viable potential presidential candidacy. It's basically like the cooper union speech for lincoln. It chirps or people in modern terms. It would be like the barack obama two thousand four convention speech. Where it's this guy's now on the national map after this speech. Yeah i would say i mean garfield is to some degree at least already on the national map. Obviously he's very well known inside ohio He's but yeah. I think you're right. He this is. This is what this is something that gets them a lot of national attention and makes people in other parts of the country sort of you know perk their ears up a little bit and pay attention to this guy from from ohio. As i said earlier you know he. He was very highly regarded as a speaker so he was in demand in in other parts of the country especially during campaign season To go to other states usually states around ohio but but not always he did go to new england and new york and places like that To give speeches So he's got something of a following or reputation but but nothing to the degree of some of the other the other people who were in fact seeking the The excuse me. The republican nomination in eighteen eighty like former president ulysses s grant or james blaine or john sherman or any of these folks right and yet so often in american history. It's people like that get passed up like seward and chase get passed up for that second right lawyer from illinois right exactly now tell me about garfield is a person told me a little bit about his family life but about his you know his marriage and his his children you know about that. Yeah he was. Of course he was married. His wife's name was lucretia. Rudolph was her maiden name. So lucretia rudolph garfield and they married in eighteen fifty eight and they stayed married until his death You know they. It's pretty well known that the first several years of their marriage were frankly very difficult You know he was he. He traveled a lot whether it was because he was going to columbus to be a A state senator for part of the year Then when the civil war came of course he was gone for you know really over two years With with a few trips home here and there to serve in the army And at one point she she estimated that in the first five years of their marriage. They only spent about twenty weeks together so they were. They were very distant from one. Another for quite a long time They did eventually come back together but it really took him being in congress and them living with him and you know in washington. Dc for part of the year and her always back in ohio with the children It took a few years of that for them to say we don't wanna live like this anymore and they finally Eventually built a house in washington. Dc so that the whole family could be together. They had seven children total Two of their children did not survive childhood. So they're very first. Child was a daughter who died about three and a half and then they're very last child was a son who died just before his second birthday So there are other five children. Four sons one daughter all survives childhood in grew up in all got married and had families of their own and had successful careers. Two of them ended up serving in government So he did. He did He and his wife did produce a very well regarded family. And i will say we are very fortunate in my day job That we've already talked about. We do still have a lot of garcia descendants. Here in the cleveland area and You know we see them a lot. They come to the site all the time they come to our events they come to see the house They bring you know family and friends to visit. So it's it's really a special thing for us to still have them here and to see people who even though they obviously never knew their great great great grandfather or whatever To still have pride in their their family name and and what. This family meant to not only to northeast ohio but to the country right. Now that's that is pretty cool Being able to know the descendants of president garfield So one thing. I was interested in so we had that episode on the eighteen. Seventy six election. That was one of our earliest episodes. And a as you mentioned that it's often kind of portrayed or assumed that it was the end of reconstruction but then here's garfield who gives us a great speech in congress and in the revolution in congress speech and then he's kind of it sounds like he's basically kind of this leader of those who want to deal with the unfinished business of the civil war. And i wanna take us back to what lincoln was doing and to take care of the to be the conscience of the republican party when it came to the rights of african american so with all that said it seems to me that there was a significant faction in the republican party. First of all just the fact that garfield got the nomination but since he was kind of a leader in that it seemed like there was a significant factor in the republican party. That still cared about those issues and still cared about weren't ready to to give it up. Is that right. Well certainly it. Yea certainly in in in eighteen seventy six. There was a very very strong republican efforts to make sure that that the republicans held onto to the white house and a lot of that effort was driven by the idea that you know. Even rutherford b hayes. Who was the the republican in eighteen. Seventy six said that a democratic victory means turning the government over to the rebels and so there was a very strong Strong push for that in eighteen. Seventy six and Hayes of course as we all know the story. I think you know loses the popular vote. Tilden beats by. I think it's something like two hundred and fifty thousand votes or so Which of course all of us here today know that that it's you know it happens from time to time where a president loses the popular vote but still manages to win the electoral college and become president. It's happened twice in the last twenty years in fact including what the current administration So there was this concern about yes. Republicans obviously wanted to stay in power naturally and all political parties do Of course but there was this also this this concern in hayes. I think expressed it best when he thought he had lost the election. He said you know. I can stand it and the party meaning. The republican party can stand it. But i fear for you know for the black man of the south Basically meaning he realized that if the democratic party Took over the white house and congress. Then you know conditions in the south were gonna go We're gonna get a lot worse very very quickly. I would also like to defend rutherford as just a little bit here. Another one of these presidents that i think has been unfairly labeled as obscure Or unimportant There's this i. In fact i even mentioned used it in the book. this quote from thomas wolfe From the i don't know the nineteen thirties or whenever it was that you know where he's writing he calls these guys The lost americans in these talks about their their gravelly bearded faces which one had sideburns on which one had whiskers and which was which basically saying. It doesn't really matter there are. They're all unimportant and even historians. I think have some historians at least have ever really treated the presidency like this really this kind of black hole Between you know. Between abraham lincoln and theodore roosevelt. And of course that's just not the case and hayes you know garfield or are two of those guys. That have sort of been lumped in that and i just think it's it's unfortunate and it's unfair but i wanna defend hayes a little bit because there's for for years and years and years. There's been this assumption that or this feeling that you know. A reconstruction ended because hayes made this dirty deal to become you know that that okay. Well rather hayes. Yes exactly Louisiana south carolina and florida agreed to turn their votes over to hayes their electoral votes so he becomes president and not tilden. And therefore hayes agrees to pull troops out of the south well. That is a gross over-simplification troops. Were already being pulled out of parts of the south troops remained in other parts of the south. The real issue there was southerners. Didn't like federal soldiers. You know america. Us soldier like being occupied. They didn't like being occupied and especially didn't like soldiers at polling places And they you know and of course they were there to protect the physical safety and the the the voting rights of of of black men and southerners really hated that and so hayes did agree to kind of in some areas. Pull that back a little bit but this idea that you know hayes just magically decided to pull all the all the federal troops out of the south in order to become president this is. It's just not true. This was already happening before. Hayes became president right now. One of the quotes. That i love that you cited in the book was when garfield and i believe this was at the eve on the eve of the eighteen eighty presidential race. He said quote. I long ago made the resolution that i would never let the presidential fever get any logic in my brain. I think it is one office in this nation that for his own peace. No man should set his heart on. You know it's one of those things that i think. A lot of people in washington could probably relate to what changed it sounded like he didn't wanna get his hopes up and then how did that. How did that happen as he kind of surprisingly found himself becoming the nominee. Well yeah i mean. I think you're right. I think i. Firmly believe that every representative and senator in congress at all times probably really deep down thinks they should really be president. So you know. I think that's just part of of of being in in that job You know everyone sort of fantasy. All of those those folks fantasize about you know having been know being the president. I'm sure or at one time or another. At least you know garfield had seen so many of his his friends and his his colleagues in the party get that presidential fever as he called it they just got and probably the best example of that of someone who was really close with garfield personally as james blaine. Who was the senator from maine had been speaker of the house for a while had been in the house for quite some time and then went to the senate and blaine was just he could not shake it he just wanted to be president so badly and And you know you never quite got there And so garfield saw. I couch destructive. That was and how distracting it was. And so he and yeah. I'm i'm quite sure. James garfield deep down wanted to be president at some point. The thing about garfield is in eighteen. Eighty he's forty eight years old so he's a young man and of course he assumes he's got decades of life laughed probably decade per perhaps decades of political political office left. So you know. I'm sure garfield thought about running for president at some point but i really don't believe he thought that that was likely in eighteen. Eighty there were there. Were you know everybody assumed or most people assumed that whether they liked it or not. Us grant would probably be the nominee in eighteen eighty. Because he had you know everyone knew he was more than willing to come back after being out of office for four years and getting more and more distressed by by hayes and now he was running the country and the party Everyone knew grant was was willing to come back and and You know treat it as a a duty if he was nominated again. Blaine of course was was interested. John sherman from ohio. A friend another friend of garfield the brother of the famous general william tecumseh sherman Who secretary of treasury under hayes also wants to be the nominee in eighteen eighty garfield in eighteen eighty is much more interested in becoming a senator and he in eighteen seventy late eighteen seventy nine Realizes that there's going to be an opportunity for that at the beginning of eighteen eighty to be elected to the senate. Obviously the people don't elect their own senators at this point in american history. They're they're elected by the state legislatures and so he works behind the scenes with john. Sherman the secretary of the treasury who's from ohio To get himself elected to the senate and then sort of the the quid pro quo if you will which is probably a loaded term to use in twenty twenty. Maybe i shouldn't. Maybe i shouldn't use that term. But at any rate you know sort of the the the deal is that sherman will you know speak favorably of garfield and to the ohio legislature. So that garfield gets elected to the senate and then garfield will in turn support bid for the republican nomination. So you know. Garfield wasn't seeking the republican nomination in eighteen eighty. Now there were some people who felt like who kind of saw the writing on the wall that had the potential to be very contentious republican convention in eighteen eighty and that the possibility was there that a compromise candidate would be needed that neither grant nor blaine nor sherman nor anyone else would have enough support to get the nomination and there were those people out there who thought garfield would be a great compromise choice and he didn't try to tamp that down you know. He kept his options open but ultimately he he did not think there was really anything to us and he certainly didn't expect did not go to that convention expecting to be nominated. He went there to to to speak to to support sherman To kind of manage sherman's efforts on the floor and at sherman's request to give the speech. Nominating john sherman to be the republican candidate. If garfield thought that there was really any legitimate chance he would've been nominated. I don't believe he would have gone to the convention. I think he would have found a way to get out of that. Because it was just considered so unseemly And so inappropriate for someone to so overtly seek that office so i just don't think he would have allowed himself to to go to that convention if he really thought there was anything to this. I do believe he. He went there really not expecting what what ended up happening. I it's it's pretty amazing. Twist of fate when you consider that he was involved in the eighteen. Seventy six commission to to adjudicate the dispute of that election and so here. He is playing this huge role on deciding the winner of that election. Then he's he goes to this convention thinking that he's gonna play a certain role to nominate other someone else and he ends up getting the nomination and it it it it must have been kind of To him it must have struck him as such an incredible twist of fate to do that. Now as you alluded to the eighteen eighty race. You've mentioned the people that were running You mentioned grant and blaine and sherman and all those people were the issues that people were talking about in that race. And how how did it play out. How did he become. That candidate was at one of those. Everyone deadlocked and he became the compromise. Choice well yeah. The the primary issue really at that convention was People who thought it was a great idea for grant to run for a third term and people who were opposed to the idea of anyone running for a third term. Obviously at this point in in american history there's no constitutional amendment that says someone can't run More than twice like there is now But it was just seen as not the right thing to do. Because of the example that had been set of course by george washington who you know as the first president served two terms and then voluntarily walked away even though he could have been elected again and again and again probably So no one at that. Point had broken that precedent and no many people including james garfield did not think that president should be broken so really the the primary issue at the convention was the third term for grants The other issue that really separated the two factions between the so-called stalwart republicans who were the grant faction and the somewhat derisively named half breeds Who were the you know anti third term and and you know a little more moderate. I guess you would say in. Today's terms faction was the civil service. the idea of should the civil service. Continue as the spoils system. This is the system that grant and the stalwarts liked where you know. Hate to the victor. Go the spoils and we won the election and weaken dole out as many jobs as we want to whomever we want regardless of their their experience or qualifications And then on the other side you had some people who were and really not all of them were really even all that passionate about civil service reform. Or what roscoe. Conklin called civil service reform But there were there. Were lots of people who were okay. Starting to come around to the idea that yeah. Maybe we need to do something here because we get all of these folks who are unqualified and and are you know. In some cases creating messes that need to be cleaned up And are give these jobs really only because they they are a friend of grants or they're a friend of a friend of a friend of grant or they're a fifteenth cousin twice removed or whatever That doesn't that's nice that they have that connection but it doesn't make them qualify to be a minister to another country or a postmaster or or anything else so now. This is the system that people will remember was instituted by jackson swell system and and it seems that emerged as an issue At least in part because of the scandals under president grant. I would imagine right. Well yeah i mean an and that was one of the reasons that people were so leery of third term for grant of course. There's the precedent set by washington. Which nobody wants to see to see done away with because of how revered washington was then and still is even today in many circles but also yes you know. Eight years of grants Had seen a number of scandals you know we. We know now that the evidence shows that grant himself was personally honest. You know he wasn't on the take or anything like that. The problem with grant for those eight years that he was president was that he often surrounded himself with people who didn't have the best con the best interests of the country hard. They were there to line their own pockets or to give out favors or whatever so you know. It was really why the time grant's presidency ended. There were a number of people including a lot of republicans who though they still revered grant as you know the general who who really won the civil war and the the who had really done a lot for african americans had tried to to guarantee equality had tried to protect african. Americans had gone up against the ku klux klan Grant did those things in deserves credit for that from from historians and from the public even today But there were a lot of people that despite all of that were were happy to see grant go at the end of those eight years because of the scandals which they felt. Were you know people were getting tired of it and they were really kind of dragging the republican party. Down where did garfield fall in terms of the The civil service issue garfield was was not all that passionate to be honest about civil service at this point The thing that really made garfield Start coming around on. Civil service was what happened to him after he became president elect. So you know we you know he goes through the campaign. He wins a very narrow election and then all of a sudden once. He's president-elect people just start descending on him both in ohio you know at at our site where where he where he lived and where he stayed pretty much all the time between the the election and the inauguration and then once he got to washington and took office and was in early days of his presidency just thousands of office seekers and it was tradition at that point that a you know if they were willing to stand in line then at some point they would get an opportunity to be heard And and explain why they wanted to be you know the postmaster of men or ohio or they minister to france or or or whatever and And so you know. Garfield got extremely frustrated very quickly with the numbers of people and with the demands that people were making. That's really the thing that made him start coming around on civil service so he was very late in his life. Convert to civil service reform in it at the time of the eighteen. Eighty election garfield was considered a half breed republican. Not so much. Because of how he felt about civil service reform but primarily because he opposed the third term for grant i see those those issues were inextricably inextricably linked to what is a general election like in eighteen eighty. And obviously it's very different from now Back then people wouldn't wanna show their ambition when you run for president and i. It seemed that he had a little bit of a dilemma because he was a great speaker. A great oratory but you didn't campaign and barnstorm back then. So how did he run his campaign. How did he get his message out. Yeah it's a great question and you're absolutely right you know. It was considered. It was considered inappropriate for someone to especially for the presidency to really seek This office in so and hayes Press president rutherford b as told garth and guard hayes why. The way was thrilled with garfield nomination. He's from ohio. He's solid republicans. Hayes is really happy. Blaine was really happy The stalwart faction obviously was not thrilled but but hayes tells garfield you know don't say anything to anybody sit cross legged and look wise. That's your job for the next four months or five months Speaking can only hurt your chances of being elected and so you know garfield even though he is as you say a very powerful and skilled speaker. He likes to speak he likes. He's got a very outgoing personality. He likes talking to people He plans to follow this advice. But what changes for him. Is that people start showing up unannounced uninvited unexpected at his home in in ohio and they really are showing up to just kinda get a look at him and see who he is. He's very well known inside. Ohio people in surrounding states. Maybe know him a little bit but people from other parts of the country. Don't know much about him. And of course it's eighteen eighty. It's not two thousand twenty so they can't follow him on social media or any of this stuff like we do now and that we expect candidates to do you know have a presence on twitter facebook or whatever it is So they really they go they can either go to where he is and try to see him on and maybe hear him say something or they can read the newspapers which many of them did but papers were highly partisan at that point and oftentimes very openly allied with one party or another And so that really changed things for garfield when people started showing up at the property and eventually garfield started you know i think felt obligated frankly to at least acknowledge that these people had come to see him And just say a few words. He wasn't giving speeches like we. Would we expect to hear from candidates today. Where they you know. They're very openly seeking the office. They're asking for people's votes. They're talking about policy. What they wanna do about certain issues. these are not the types of speeches garfield gives but he does start giving these sort of Somewhat informal speeches from the front porch of the home and and this is where we get the idea of the front porch presidential campaign. So this is really you know. Garfield age eighty campaign here in northeast. Ohio is where that idea was born. It was the first front porch presidential campaign and then the for the next couple of decades or so really. There were a number of other front porch campaigns as well but it really started here with james garfield right now. It's interesting because they talk about the front porch campaign with mckinley and harding also ohio presidents. But i i. I didn't know that that garfield was kind of one of the us. Really the forerunner of all of that. So the previous election eighteen seventy six was one by one. Electoral vote closest in american history. What does the electoral map look like an eighteen eighty. What states did he have to win. Well he wanted of course to to win as many possible. Obviously every candidate does But there were a couple of really vital swing states that he had to have in. One of those was indiana. Obviously he expected to win. States like ohio and pennsylvania But indiana was a swing state and the other swing. State was new. York and new york was definitely a toss up because in eighteen seventy six The democratic candidate was samuel. Tilden who of course. When he ran for president in eighteen seventy six was the governor of new york. So you know. He asked of a home field advantage air. I guess you would say in eighteen. Seventy six. so new york was a a toss up in eighteen eighty. No one quite knew how it was going to go. The other thing to keep in mind especially in the early stages of the campaign was A lot of people expected tilden to run again in eighteen eighty. I mean he had been kind of you. Know it's almost like an al gore situation from two thousand. Were you know he can tell people. Hey i i used to be the the next president of the united states and tilden really did have a right to say that as well in eighteen seventy six when he had clearly won the popular vote by a quarter of a million votes or so so a lot of people felt like Tilden would run again. In eighteen eighty two really reclaim. what should have been his four years before And certainly a lot of democrats wanted him to run again Because they felt like hey. He had won the popular vote. The last time and the only reason he didn't become president was because of this sort of corrupt bargain to use. A you know a a phrase from jacksonian era so So that you know. But but tilden kind of hemmed and hawed about whether or not he wanted to run again in eighteen eighty and finally the number crafts realized they had they had to find somebody else and they made a very good choice. Eighteen eighty i think with winfield scott hancock not a great choice in terms of political experience because he had none. He's a west pointer in a career army officer. But you know they really negated a very powerful argument by by nominating handcock. And that of course was the whole idea waving the plenty shirt and you know accusing democrats of being you. Know the party of secession and the party of slavery and the party that that was disloyal to the union and the party that was responsible for the the indirectly responsible for the deaths of over three hundred thousand. You know loyal. Americans who died fighting to to save the union in in slavery They couldn't wave. that buddy. Shirted winfield scott hancock because he fought for the north to. He fought for the united states and was wounded several times and bled for the united states. And so they really negated that that That issue when they nominated hancock so what we ended up with in eighteen. Eighty was the only election in american history. Where both Candidates both major party candidates were civil war veterans of the were union. Civil war veterans And so that that that was also going to be a challenge because it negated that powerful republican argument about waving the bloody shirt Handcock is a native pennsylvanian. These born near philadelphia But at the time of his nomination he was living in new york. He was the commander of the department of the atlantic which was based in new york and so he had some new york ties as well. So indiana and new york we're really Two of the major swing states that garfield new that in order to have a chance to win he he was. He was going to have to win. Indiana new york you so he wins the presidency by relatively comfortable margin to fourteen to one fifty five in the electoral college. Even though it was maybe the closest election in popular vote in history. He was forty nine. As we mentioned. And for comparison. I i i had looked this up. Most of his many of his predecessors were much older oftentimes sixty or above and that goes for john. Adams jackson's obviously william henry harrison. So now he's president. Relatively young president probably bit surprised to be president. What agenda was he formed. Did he formulate in those first few months after the election but also in the few months that he was in office. Yeah and you're right and in terms of the how close the election was. It was a comfortable margin the electoral college but the popular vote. Victory was razor thin. Something somewhere less than ten thousand votes i think. Around seventy two or seventy four hundred votes is sort of the commonly accepted figure. So yeah you're right very very close but once he became president You know he of course spent a lot of time. Pressure elect dealing with those office seekers as i mentioned a few minutes ago so he spent a lot of time. Dealing with those folks He spent a lot of time trying to figure out. Who did he want his cabinet He agonized over writing his inaugural address as most presidents do But you know he he He agonized over his so much that he decided about thirty six hours. Before the before the inauguration to start all over so he agonize quite a bit over that speech but you know coming into the presidency. You know he. He was starting to come around to the idea of civil service reform because of the experiencing he'd had as president-elect with all the office seekers You know he. He was interested in in Some expanding american or increasing Relationships with latin american countries He made james blaine who had been a contender for that nomination in in chicago He made blaine his secretary of state. So he and blamed. We're starting to plan a conference of of That would have would have taken place in washington in late. Eighteen eighty one of Nations from central and south america Another major priority. That he had that that later came to pass under his successor was Kind of rebuilding the american navy He wanted to to start moving the navy towards Moving away from wooden ships in towards steel ships So i think you know certainly Those relationships with latin american countries and the modernisation of the navy are two things that had he lived. I think he certainly would have would have would have been able to to make some some good progress on and then of course obviously the you know the and kind of the whole really angle that i take with this book is is the is the the issue of civil rights garfield being one of those republicans who was still in eighteen. Eighty really Talking to to the country and talking to even his own fellow republicans about the need to continue to work with the formerly enslaved in the south to improve their conditions and to guarantee their their their equality and their their rights to vote in and and other rights to which they were entitled by those reconstruction constitutional amendments. And he did dedicate. You know a fairly significant Portion of his inaugural address to discussing still rights as well and talking about how the The as he as he said the elevation of the negro race From slavery to the full rights of citizenship is the most important constitutional or the most important political change. We have known since adoption of the constitution. So he was and he talked about. You know how how important this was in how you know yes. He knew there were hard feelings but everybody needed to work together to to to try to make the country a better place for for african americans as as as well as everybody else and so i think he would've made great strides on on that issue as well. Unfortunately it was not to be just a few months into his presidency. He is assassinated. What are some of the interesting aspects of that. Assassination that most people don't know well it was. I mean i think the most important thing to remember about the assassination is that that Charles ghetto the the guy who shot her field on july second. Eighteen eighty one When garfield had been president for just four months He was very very very much You know mentally disturbed deranged There was a political angle to this. Assassination in that ghetto in his derangement And in his you know his his his mental illness believed that he gets ho. Had really been a very important part of garfield winning the election especially in new york which ended up you know garfield did end up winning and did end up being the critical state that put him over the top in the electoral college Ghetto had just kind of hung around republican headquarters in new york for you know for weeks or months and you know kind of convinced himself that. Oh you know. He played this really major role in garfield winning the election and therefore he went to washington and decided he wanted to work for the administration and he became one of these guys who was standing in line at the white house. Trying to get an audience with either the president or or you know a secretary or something like that to make his case for a for a job for a political appointment And you know he. He kind of he kept coming back. And you know afterwards when they were investigating him after he shot garfield at one of garfield secretaries mentioned that he remembered seeing guitar at the white house at least fifteen times So he just kept coming back And really even stalked the president of the united states for a while. You know this is eighteen eighty one. There's no secret service protection for presidents. i mean at the end of the working day. Oftentimes james garfield would leave the white house and walk down the street by himself to visit a friend or go to dinner or whatever Was different back then. Quite quite different yeah it sounds it almost. Sounds like they could make a movie. Like travis bickel taxi driver part two version of of this. Know that i to tell you the truth. I think that's a great comparison. You know if anybody's seen taxi driver and surely a lot of people listening have and remember you know kind of how that character was was portrayed by deniro masterful performance I think that's actually not a bad comparison to tell you the truth. Ghetto you know. Got it in his mind that he was he was important and he was entitled to this job you know yet he was had this narcissistic personality as these delusions of grandeur and when he finally was told in very very harsh terms by none other than james plane the secretary of state after he You know kind of accosted blaine about becoming a. Us minister to To vienna or he said he would also accept paris. What a nice guy. He's willing to take such a such a such a demotion fair. Yeah yeah And blaine finally got so tired of seeing him. He just told him one day. Don't bother me again. You are not gonna get this console ship And that's when then ghetto in his again his mental His mental illness decided that you know the really the thing to do. The garfield was clearly a threat because he was he was taking the republican party down the wrong road and he was going to institute. This dreaded civil service reform and ghetto was a you know a dedicated stalwart republican. Who believed in in the patronage system and therefore the the most natural thing to do the most logical thing to do in his mind was to kill the president of the united states and make the vice president who was chester. A arthur who was from new york who was from this stalwart wing of the party to make arthur president and that would therefore save the republican party from civil service reform and therefore save. Save the country right. And it's amazing that figures like that who normally would not have any impact ends up changing the course of the history of the country. Now one question. I do want to ask you is that and i have a feeling that someone who's studied garfield. This is probably something that you've thought about is james garfield. Here's a man who Unfortunately and unfairly has been relegated to obscurity and here we are in twenty twenty and the country's so so different than what it was in eighteen eighty and yet we still deal with a lot of the same issues. What does james garfield story. How does it speak to us right now. In in twenty twenty america. How does his story apply and what what can say to us and what lessons can give us. Well i mean. I think there's a universal less than they're certainly in you know the the value of persistence and resilience. And you know being goal oriented and garfield guy as i said at the beginning is born very poor and really worked hard for everything he got in life. And you know he. He really is the personification of this idea whether it's genuine or not that we like to believe about america. Which is all you know anybody. Can you know rise from the lowest of circumstances and become the most powerful person in the world You know again. How much value that or truth there is to. That is certainly debatable. But garfield is a good example. That's all i do. Think there's a sort of a universal lesson there about you know resilience and that kind of thing But you know. I mentioned earlier. That you know i wanted to defend rougher behaves a little bit that you know. He's he's not the guy who ended reconstruction and you know i. I said that even by eighteen eighty. I thought or i think that that reconstruction wasn't over and i would say to be perfectly honest in the year. Two thousand twenty reconstruction is not over and look at what is happening. You know look at some of the social movements That are going on in this country. Right now look at some of the terrible things that are happening to african americans. It's clear that you know. The promises of Of those reconstructing amendments to the constitution the promises of equality before the law our promises in in name only and we don't have full equality for everyone in this country yet we just don't we've made great strides but if we think that we're already at the end of the road then we're sorely mistaken and i think some of the events of the last few months have shown that that you know you can go all the way back to to you know to james garfield in eighteen eighty saying hey republicans. We've done a lot of great work but we still have much great work to accomplish You can go to nineteen sixty. Eight with dr martin. Luther king's saying to the people of the united states. All we're asking you to do is is be true to what you put on paper you know you wrote in seventeen. Seventy six at all. Men are created equal. But you don't treat us that way. And i would say in in two thousand twenty. We're still working toward that. And we still see some terrible things that happen In in the public sphere that show that we're still working toward that. We are still trying to really embraced fully embrace that new birth of freedom that that abraham lincoln talked about in the gettysburg address Again we've made great strides but if anyone thinks that we're all the way there you've only got to watch the news Or or go online and see some of the terrible things that are happening. And and i think if you understand this. History and james garfield is a big part of that as our people. Like abraham lincoln and frederick douglass and many of the others that we've talked about in the course of this conversation If you know that history you can understand. I think why minority groups whether it's african americans or or women or are though. I guess women are the minority. So please edit that. But you know whether it's african americans are lgbtq Members of that community So many people out there are still correctly. Don't feel that they're they are equal before the law and You know. I think. I like i like to think as a historian. And certainly someone who's interested in garfield that had garfield lived He he may have affected some change there and been able to make things better. I'm not naive enough to believe that. Had he lived in served a full term or two terms as president that you know none of these these these terrible things have happened. In two thousand twenty would would have happened Or that there would be no need for you. Know a movement like black lives matter or something like that but i hope that perhaps He may have been able to to be at least A good example of the the right way to do things and to be on the right side of history So i think that you know. There's there are lessons in all of these presidents Who even the ones that as we've talked about kind of get overlooked or or viewed as as you know not as not as important. They can't all be abraham lincoln's and george washington's and theodore roosevelt's. But i i certainly like to garfield may have been one of those had he lived But even more importantly i i i hope that and i think that based on what i know about him that he may you know he certainly would have. He certainly did stand on the right side of history on a lot of issues. Not every single one You know he was not for example in in favor of women's suffrage Which you know in twenty twenty looks like a very boneheaded physician to take especially for a guy that had a wife and a daughter and a mother who was still alive when he was president But so he wasn't perfect by any means and i i don't mean to suggest that he was but i do think he on a lot of issues he was on the right side and i think that that could have meant very good things for the country had he lived and given a chance to to serve a full term or two full terms as president so the book is called the last lincoln republican the presidential election of eighteen. Eighty by benjamin todd arrington. He goes by todd but is listed on amazon as benjamin errington. Todd it's been great chatting with you and we appreciate the work that you did to put this book together and to learn about this president and this important time that's often overlooked in about an american figure who is often overlooked yet had a major impact on our country. Thanks very much. I appreciate you having me on died. It's been a pleasure. This american president is produced by myself. Richard lim and michael neale. If you like what you've been hearing you can help us by leaving us. A five star review apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to our show. I'm richard lim. Were back next time with more this american president.

garfield lincoln James garfield lincoln ohio congress hayes republican party army rutherford b hayes united states Lincoln frederick douglass fort sumter apollo publishers benjamin t arrington todd arrington Garfield
1880, Hancock vs. Garfield: Maelstrom

American Elections: Wicked Game

47:08 min | 1 year ago

1880, Hancock vs. Garfield: Maelstrom

"It's April eighteen sixty six on Capitol Hill in Washington. The House is locked in an intense debate over a bill to establish the post civil war military after hours of Jabs and spars one thirty six year old Republican congressman from UTICA. New York takes the floor. Standing over six feet tall roscoe conquering rises to his feet. His booming voice filling the chamber. I moved to strike out. Section Twenty of the bill section twenty provides for the salary of the provost marshal the head of recruitment for the army. The war's over conquering feels. It's an unnecessary position. Also helped by a man. He despises General James Frye. This section creates an unnecessary office for an undeserving public servant. It fastens an incubus upon the country. General Fry presides over Dan of thieves who victimized the public through blatant deception but many in the chamber disagree with conch links assessment including a young Republican from Maine named James G. Blaine Blaine has no love for conquering the to have repeatedly sparred on the House floor over a myriad of issues at a recent dinner party. They even exchanged some less than polite words. General FRY is a man blamed supports one. He considers honorable so this attack from conkland leaves the congressman from Maine Fuming. What happened to the millions of dollars? That mysteriously went missing during the war. Answer that question. One need look no further than the office of General Fry. Conquering is a rising star. Well on his way to becoming the de facto boss of New York politics. He's not the sort of man to be crossed lightly but on this day in April of eighteen. Sixty six for James. Blaine enough is enough as conquering returns was seated in the gallery. Blaine takes the floor when I hear the gentlemen from New York Rehearse in this house his argument against General Fry. My personal indignation carries me beyond my personal strength. Playing can barely contain his rage has he? Attacks conflicts motion. The gentleman from New York and General Fry had many disputes over the years in these corals it is generally understood that the gentleman frequently came out second best. There is a personal issue that does not belong on the floor of the house where general fry has no recourse to defend himself unwilling to back down. Conquering seeks recognition and takes back the floor. Mr Speaker I mean to take advantage of the absence of general on the contrary I'm ready to avow would have said anywhere. I am responsible not only here but elsewhere for what I've set the Chamber Fall Silent Conquering Venturing into dangerous territory. You suggesting that if Blaine doesn't back down you will challenge him to a duel. The false report given by the gentleman from Maine should have no bearing on my motion. Blaine is still furious. He calls out from the chamber. What does the gentlemen mean to say was false? I mean to say that. The statement made by the gentleman from. Maine is false. Blaine turns to the Speaker of the House and Demands Mr Speaker. I call a gentleman order chair. Overrules a point of order. I have the parliamentary right overruled. This plane I demand he shall state what was false. And what I said. The gentlemen from Maine will spend but the gentleman from Maine does not spent and ultimately conquering relents and allows blame to retake the floor. Blaine regains his composure and addresses his fellow. Congressman. When we had the gentleman here from eleven seceded states. They used to talk about answering here and elsewhere and it was understood that they meant a dual. I take it. The gentlemen from New York means the same well now. That is very cheap. When I have to resort to the epithet of false upon this floor and this chiefs swagger I shall have very little faith in the cause I stand up to maintain ultimately Congress decided that section twenty was to be struck from the bill. But this wasn't at ace a debate over a bill a week. Later blamed stood on the floor of the House and read a letter from general fry accusing Roscoe conquering of thievery and corruption. Blaine also ridiculed a recent newspaper. Article That lionize. Conquering comparing him to a revered. Radical Republican Leader Lane mocked. The comparison saying it is striking high period. To Seder mud tomorrow. Dunghill took diamond a singed cat to a Bengal tiger wining puppy to a roaring lion. The rivalry between Blaine and conquering was simmering on violence. They would find themselves on opposite sides of an enduring political struggle inside. The Republican Party at the Republican convention in the election of eighteen eighty would find. Its climax I'm Lindsey Graham and this is American elections. Wicked game By the late eighteen seventies the Republican party was fractured the radical Republicans. The men largely responsible for the radicalization of slavery and the establishment of civil rights were fading from prominence. Famous radicals thaddeus Stevens were dying or disappearing into the obscurity of retirement. Men like James Blaine and Roscoe conquering where the future of the Republican Party and these two men would become the leaders of two distinct Republican factions the stalwarts and the half breeds roscoe concrete and the stalwarts were largely in favour of the political machinery that propped up federal patronage a process by which elected candidates reward their supporters with political posts and perks. The half breeds were largely in favour of civil service reform an attempt to eliminate federal patronage and replace it with a merit based system wherein the most qualified person would get the job regardless of politics. The term half breed was an insult invented by the stalwarts in the wake of the civil war. Democrats in the south had consistently opposed president. Grant's administration and the Federal Patronage System thus men like James Blaine who agreed with half Democrat. Policies were themselves half Republican eventually. The half breeds embrace the insult and were like a badge of honor as the two factions of the Republican Party. Vie For dominance in the eighteen seventies. Conklin and Blaine would rise to positions of power. Blaine would become the speaker of the House and eventually a senator. Though his record on civil service reform was funny he would ultimately garner the confidence of many. In the half breed faction roscoe conquering would become the defacto boss of the stalwarts and would control the levers of power in New York. Republican politics these two immovable forces would collide in June of eighteen eighty in Chicago at the Republican National Convention. There conkland and Blaine would fight a political battle. That would result in gridlock and give rise to a dark horse candidate who neither man saw coming in the midst of the chaos of the eighteen eighty convention. Former Major General James a Garfield would rise to power. In the general election he would strive to unite the two warring factions of the Republican Party and get the best of a formidable war hero Democrat. This is episode. Twenty four eighteen eighty garfield versus handcock mousetrap. During President Grant's two terms roscoe conquering in the stalwart had remained loyal. Even in the face of a never ending list of scandals that plagued grants administration. The stalwarts had largely backed rants efforts to make good on the promises of the Thirteenth Fourteenth and fifteenth amendments which collectively were meant or radical slavery and guarantee all rights of citizenship to former slaves but the many scandals grant administration had branded the Republican Party with corruption and alienated many in his own party. Men Light James Blaine and the other half breeds. Additionally during grant's presidency federal patronage was alive. And well so in eighteen seventy six. The half breeds helped to elect Rutherford B Hayes. A PRO reform candidate the election of eighteen. Seventy six had only served to further damage. The reputation of the Republican Party Hayes. Victory was the closest yet in American. History vote recounts were required in several states including Florida. But those recounts were controlled by Republican runs state governments when Hayes was declared the winner Democrats accuse Republicans of stealing the election. They call the eighteen seventy six contest. The great fraud of eighteen. Seventy six they gave Rutherford B. Hayes nickname his fraudulent then as president hayes angered the stalwarts and the remnants of the radical Republican faction two. He presided over the end of reconstruction and withdrew federal troops from the south even in the face of mounting evidence that southern states were depriving black-americans of their constitutional rights. Additionally Hayes made concerted efforts to fulfil his promise of civil service reform. Needless to say Roscoe Conklin and the Star Wars did not support a second term for Rutherford B Hayes even if James Blaine and half breeds did it wouldn't have mattered. Hayes had made a promise to be a one term president. His DECISION NOT TO COMPETE IN EIGHTEEN. Eighty therefore set the table for a political showdown between conquering and Blaine by eighteen. Eighty politics in America had transformed into something of a spectator sport. A form of mass entertainment politicians were national celebrities. Party conventions were major events and voting had become a sacred right. The enthusiasm was on full display at the Republican convention in Chicago Illinois by some estimates as many as fifty thousand people came to Chicago for the convention one of them was recent. Senator elect James a Garfield on. May Twenty eighth just a few days before the Convention Garfield arrived in Chicago and checked in at the Grand Pacific Hotel. He wasn't there long when he was cornered by reporter from the Chicago. Tribune Garfield told the reporter. I have just arrived. Please don't ask me anything about political matters. I really not had time to make an estimate or form an opinion of the situation but of course Garfield did have an opinion. There were two clear. Front runners going into the Convention. Conquering and the stalwarts threw their support. Behind General Ulysses s grant hoping to resurrect his political career and make grant the first president in American history to serve three terms. The half breeds look to their leader. A popular senator and former congressman. James Blaine but Senator Garfield came to Chicago in support of a third candidate former Congressman John Sherman treasury secretary under President Hayes but in the hotel lobby the reporter didn't take no for an answer asking Garfield a follow up question. How do you stand on? The Unit Rule Garfield quickly answered the reporter. Now last two that I will give you an answer because I have an opinion on that subject. The unit rule was a rule under which delegation to a national political convention casts entire vote as a unit as determined by a majority vote based on Garfield Bass prediction of the delegate count. He had to know that the unit rule if adopted would hurt both secretary. Sherman and Senator Blaine. He also had to know it would help roscoe conquering and the stalwarts put general grant back in the White House. There was no doubt. Conklin would scheme to push the unit rule and so of the nomination for grant really. It was a matter of simple math. Three hundred seventy nine votes were required to win. According to one recent prediction the Albany Register. James Blaine likely had two hundred seventy seven votes grant at three hundred fourteen Sherman. Only one hundred six. The rest were scattered among a few minor contenders going into the convention. Grant was clearly in the lead but there was opposition. A minority of very vocal dissenters spread across several key states men who had never support grant the bulk of the Anti Grant dissenters were in concord home turf of New York so if Roscoe Conkland could push through the unit rule and silence their minority individual descent giving them. New York's delegates in a block. Grant was extremely likely to win. Perhaps even on the first ballot on the other hand if the unit rule was blocked Garfield candidates secretary. Sherman had a fighting chance. Sherman was in third place but Blaine and grant were neck and neck. Garfield was a student of convention politics. He knew that with two powerful factions locked in a stalemate. There was often a chance that the third place candidate his candidate could easily become the compromise choice in giving his opinion on the unit rule. Garfield didn't pull punches with reporter. Each delegate has a right to express his own political sentiment by his own personal vote it is wholly unrepentant for one man to cast another man's vote Garfield had been forthcoming with reporter about his opinion on the unit rule but there was one subject he didn't get into his own candidacy. Garfield came to Chicago. Support Secretary Sherman Fellow Ohioan but rumors of Garfield. The dark horse candidate had been swirling for weeks in late. April of eighteen eighty Garfield had received a visitor. A man who told him that members of the Pennsylvania delegation had aims to make him the nominee but Garfield had declined their support. Sherman was his man back at the Convention on the afternoon of May Twenty Eighth Garfield and a group of key. Sherman supporters met on the fifth floor of the Grand Pacific Hotel Garfield told Sherman. The unit rule was the great question of the convention in his account of the meeting. Garfield wrote that. He urged them to take a bold and aggressive stand against the rule to unite with the friends of all candidates. Who Take this view Roscoe? Conquering was not one of these men at the New York State Convention earlier that year. Conquering had narrowly pushed through a resolution instructing all New York delegates to support a third term for grant and Chicago conquering plan to force the unit rule on the Convention by leaning on his good friend. Donald Cameron the Convention chairman. Conklin had instructed Cameron to impose the unit rule by any means necessary but this aggression only contributed to a growing anti grant anti conquering sentiment in the Party and on this afternoon of May Twenty Eighth Garfield hatched a plan. The unit rule likely helped grant. It likely hurt everyone else. So if the supporters of Sherman and Blaine United they could stop conquering by making a motion to remove Karen even before the convention got underway while Garfield said his plan in motion in Chicago. The three leading candidates for the Republican nomination stayed out of the fray communicating with their surrogates via telegraph general grant received frequent updates at his home in Galena Illinois. Sherman and Blaine stayed in Washington. All three men left their fate in the hands of their supporters. Sherman put his faith and senator elect James Garfield Blaine and William Chandler a savvy. Harvard lawyer and political operative from New Hampshire and general grant trusted in Roscoe conquering the convention officially began on Monday may thirty first eighteen eighty at seven pm as chairman. Donald Cameron gambled convention to order conquering. Had some cause for concern already. His plan was coming apart earlier that day. Nine delegates from New York and signed a pledge to not support general grant and then almost immediately after the convention began a delegate from Colorado the floor and made a motion to strike the unit rule when Cameron rule the motion out of order the convention hall filled with Boos and hisses. Several attempts were made to jettison the unit rule and each time cameron dismissed it outright on dubious procedural grounds the next day newspapers all across the country derided. Cameron's undemocratic behaviour protesters took to the streets only signs that read down with the Grant Syndicate. Conklin could feel the opposition mounting against him so he decided it was time to strike a deal. It's early June eighteen eighty Palmer Hotel in Chicago a large group of half breed Republicans. Walk into the crowded lobby on their way to a private meeting of the National Convention Committee at the head of the pack as James planes biggest supporter. William Chandler. Half reads are geared up for a fight Chandler has in his possession a piece of paper emotion to unseat Chairman Donald Cameron and replace him with Massachusetts. Senator George Hore. This time Chandler believes he has the support he needs to force camera now as Chandler in the half breeds. Make their way down the hall to their suite. Path is blocked by Roscoe conclaves. Right hand man. The former collector of the New York Port Chester a Arthur Arthur. A skilled lawyer negotiator has been sent to the Palmer House by Roscoe conflict with specific instructions. Strike a deal. Arthur steps forward and turns on the charm. Mr Tanner have award and private. Stone-faced Chandler response not private. But you may have word as the crowd of half breeds looks on Arthur speaks to Chandler in a hush Tom Mr Chandler if you succeed in removing Donald Cameron by force run the risk of splitting this convention and will only serve the week our nominee in the general election and hand the contest. A Hancock he's referring to General Winfield Scott Hancock presumptive Democratic nominee. The Democratic convention is set to take place in late. June barring any significant impedance all signs point to a Hancock. Victory Arthur continues. I think we can both agree that defeating general. Hancock must be the priority. You will hear no argument from me there. Mr Arthur good so in that spirit. I would like to propose a compromise. Mr Arthur as you know Mr conquering and his minions have refused to seat. The Illinois delegation until that insult is remedied. There's nothing to discuss Mr Chandler. Illinois will be seated. You have my word. Chandler's pleasantly surprise but not yet satisfied. But Mr Arthur that is not our only grievance Mr. Conquering is attempting to manipulate these proceedings and prevent a fair democratic process. On this point we will never compromise. Yes Democracy Mr. Conquering finds a very important and proposes that the delegates decide the question of the unit rule in an open fair and free vote. Chandler is very relieved. A split convention is the last thing he and half breeds want but it doesn't show Arthur any emotion because chandler is smart enough to realize that Roscoe conflict does not give up anything without getting something in return. I'm amenable to that proposal. But what does New York want an exchange? Only the Cameron stays chair size and frustration. Arthur continues his pitch but only for the moment we suggest Cameron remain on the committee. And Your Man Senator. Hoar be named temporary chair till the issue. The unit rule is decided Chandler. Suspicious conquering is giving up a lot and chandler can't help but wonder if confidence compromises. Trojan HORSE STILL THE ALTERNATIVE. Split Convention would be disastrous. I will need to discuss this with my colleagues. I Arthur extend his hand for the Party. Chandler takes it for the party not long after the meeting between Arthur and Chandler the delegates at the convention voted to reject the unit rule. Four forty nine to three. Oh six it's impossible to know. Exactly why conch push for a compromise or why he gave out what many perceived as being a massive advantage. Perhaps he questioned Cameron's loyalty days earlier. Cameron had sent a message to Secretary Sherman indicating that if he would instruct his people to back the unit rule cameron believed the stalwarts would eventually abandon grant and defect to Sherman side. Perhaps conquering felt betrayed by this. Or perhaps he feared Cameron was right. In his assessment. The unit rule could help Conklin but in the event of a stalemate with Blaine. It could hurt him to still. The most likely explanation is that conquering was worried about the political ramifications of Split Convention. And he was not alone. Ultimately after Arthur's compromise supporters of all three candidates on board including James Garfield but rumours of Garfield darkhorse candidate only increased after the compromise was struck with unit rule. Off The table. It was anyone's convention grant and Blaine were locked in a tight contest with Sherman in a distant third all three well shy of the required number of votes a gridlock between Blaine and grant could certainly result in a Sherman victory but it also left the door open for any candidate candidate like Garfield to rise to the top while at the Convention Garfield wrote to his wife. You can hardly imagine the embarrassment. I have been in from the moment of my arrival here. By the number of delegates from all quarters who were openly expressing. The wish that I was the Ohio candidate if Garfield was embarrassed by the support for his nomination at the convention his behavior seemed to indicate otherwise as Roscoe Conklin continued to scheme on grants behalf Garfield would take principled stance that would fan the rumor mill of his dark horse candidacy and position him as the man to beat at the Chicago Convention. American elections wicked game is sponsored by upstart. Do you like math. I do but I understand. Many people don't thankfully most of the math. You need to get through. Life is pretty simple addition subtraction multiplication division fractions percents. Percents are easy for example. Which would you prefer to pay an interest? Eight percent or twenty two percent see. It's easy and so as UPSTART DOT com. Who OFFER SMARTER RATES TO HELP YOU? Pay Off. High interest. Credit card debt of star doesn't just look at your credit score. They factor in your education and job history to deliver you a smarter interest rate. 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Who is not ready to agree? Mr Chairman I moved voice. Vote be called so ruled all in favor. All opposed the is have it. Motion is adopted. Concl- motion passed seven hundred sixteen to three but those three delegates from West Virginia have openly defied him in conquering does not tolerate even the smallest fines. Mr Chairman I hold these. Three dissenters from West Virginia are not Republicans therefore they are not entitled to vote on or debate. Any measures brought forth in these proceedings. I'm moved that these gentlemen be expelled at once. One of the West Virginians an abolitionist named a W Campbell. Rises to defend himself should never go into any convention agreed beforehand. And whatever may be done shall have my endorsement Campbell stares down conquering shouting. Sir as a free man who God made free. I always intend to carry my sovereignty under my own hat if it has come to this that in the city of Chicago a delicate cannot have free expression of opinion. I for one and willing to withdraw from this in the midst of the boos hisses alone member from the Ohio delegation stands and makes his way to the stage reporters starting to perk up. A senator James a Garfield takes the podium and addresses the hall. I fear this convention is about to make a great air and before they act. I beg leave to state. The case Garfield points to the three centers in the West Virginia delegation. These gentlemen have a right to their own opinion. Are they to be disenfranchised because they thought it was not the time to make such a pledge of blind loyalty there was never a convention. There never can be a convention of which I am a delegate equal and rights to every other delegate. They're so blind. My vote against my will on any question whatsoever. Garfield knows that the hundreds of reporters that his feet are hanging on his every word he also knows that in a matter of minutes. His speech will be telegraphed out and printed in every major newspaper in the country. I know one of these men. Gentlemen I knew him. In the dark days of slavery for Twenty Long Years in the midst of slave pens and slave drivers he stood up for liberty with a clear-sighted courage braveheart. If this convention expels him we expel with him. Any claim we have to the notion of Honor Garfield Speech hushes the delegation. Perhaps even shames roscoe conflict was forced to withdraw his motion to expel the West Virginia delegates. He was defeated. The Konkan was also impressed. During Garfield speech he had scribbled a note onto a piece of paper and slipped into Garfield on his way back to his seat. The note read New York requested. Ohio's real candidate and dark horse come forward. We want him in our sights while we prepare our balance The day after his defense of the three West Virginians on Saturday June fifth James Garfield was scheduled to make another speech at the convention again. He spoke right on the heels of Roscoe conquering who had done a masterful job. Moving the crown to cheers and applause with his well. Rehearsed flowery rhetoric in a booming voice. Conquering set of his candidate of choice. When asked what State He hails from our sole reply shall be He. Hails from EPA Matic's conquering also addressed a serious concern the viability of third term president conquering said having tried grant twice and found him faithful. We're told that we must not even after an interval of years. Trust him again. My countrymen what stalled if occasion. Such a policy involve at the end his speech. The crowd erupted into cheers. Was a tough act to follow and Garfield was not nearly as prepared in a letter to his wife. Garfield had written. I have not made the first step. In preparation was a frightful mistake. He spoke from the heart and from a place of spontaneity. He would later explain. Collings extraordinary speech gave me the idea of carrying the mind of the convention in a different direction at the outset of his speech. Garfield said I've witnessed the extraordinary scenes of disconnection with deep solicitude. No emotion touches my heart more quickly than sentiments in honor of a great noble character. But I've thought as I sat on these seats that you were. The Human Ocean gathered in this circle. I've seen the C- lashed into fury and tossed into spray and its grandeur moves. The soul of the Dallas man but I remember that is not the billows but the com- level of the sea from which all heights and depths are measured in great contrast to Concord Speech Before the Convention Hall was quiet as Garfield continued. He reminded the audience that the election would be decided by four million Republican firesides voters with wives and children's about them with the com- thoughts of home not in Chicago but at the ballot boxes in the republic. The quiet melancholy days of November Garfield asks the crown. What shall we do alone? Voice from the crowd offered a reply nominate Garfield in his eloquent speech. Garfield didn't mention Secretary Sherman until the very end which led many in the audience to suspect Garfield was starting to change his tune as one Illinois delegate toll reporter I shall always believe the Garfield while describing Sherman was thinking of himself regardless of Garfield true intention. His speech on June fifth put him squarely in the conversation as words were carried by telegraphed newspapers all across the country and the homes of the Public Garfield speech. Want him points with the people but caused a rift inside the Sherman camp. The morning after his speech Sherman received a telegram from supporter that read. He has been of no service to you. He was extremely lukewarm. In your support. He has Garfield man and in truth. Garfield was entertaining the idea of running his private correspondence reveals that conflicted man who could see both sides of the question too good and the bad as he wrote to his wife. His biggest concern was Roscoe. Conquering even if Garfield won the nomination. He told her it will be to likely embitter him and his followers against me publicly. Garfield did not commit but many delegates were warming up to the idea of a Garfield nomination. Especially in the face. A likely gridlock between Blaine and grant Garfield was repeatedly approached by delegates looking to test the waters and repeatedly dismissed the idea of his own candidacy and sued fast by Secretary Sherman but despite his public posture Garfield speech had started something he could no longer control on June seventh. The first ballot was in line with previous predictions and the press grant three or four Blaine to eighty four Sherman. Ninety-three on the first day Garfield picked up a single vote from Pennsylvania delegate. The rest of the votes were spread across several minor candidates. By the end of that. First Day of voting. After over twenty ballots little had changed grant and Blaine were still neck and neck and still well short of the required number after a long day of voting. A reporter asked one delegate appointed question. Do you think it's possible for the blame? Men To support Sherman. The delegate responded bluntly no Sir when the reporter asked him about Garfield then a delegate demurred saying only imparting good evening the next day on the thirty fourth ballot Garfield 's name started to ring out sixteen delegates from Wisconsin voted for Garfield from there. The dominoes fell one by one. Delegates from all across the country threw their support behind. Garfield on the thirty six ballot. The contest was over. Garfield secured three hundred ninety five votes and the Republican nomination after that final vote Garfield told a reporter for Chicago newspaper. I wish you would say that. This is no act of mine. I have done everything. Omitted nothing to secure Secretary Sherman's nomination one Sherman. Supporters sent the secretary the bad news via telegraph the Movement to Garfield swept with lightning rapidity through the convention. He is nominated hall erupted in cheers. The Chairman Bank has gavel and pronounce James. A Garfield of Ohio is nominated for the president of the United States. Conclaves men though had remained firm. They stood by grant until the final ballot in the end. It was James Blaine half breeds that defected to Garfield camp a few minutes after the announcement roscoe conflict took the floor and said I congratulate the Republican Party of the United States on the good nature and well tempered rivalry which has distinguished this animated contest though. His outward words and actions were magnanimous. His tone was solemn and gloomy. Conkland was deep down furious. Whether by accident or design James Garfield had successfully secured his party's nomination but to win. In the General Election Garfield new. He would have to unite the Republican Party behind his candidacy to accomplish. That goal. Garfield would have to curry favor from the very man. He just feed roscoe conquering as was his custom. Conflict would ask for something in return. It's June eighteen eighty in Chicago at the Republican convention. Roscoe conkland hides in a private room at the back of the exposition building licking his wounds. He paces back and forth angrily muttering to himself. The ROOM IS EMPTY. Save for conquering and one other man alone reporter who lurks in the background. Unnoticed reporter watches conclaves every move and jots down notes as Chester. A Arthur enters through the door. Arthur to doesn't notice the reporter but when he sees conquering frantically pacing monitoring he calls out. I've been hunting for you. Everywhere seeing his protege and good friend conquering immediately breathed a sigh of relief. Chesser sit down with me please. You say you've been looking for me. What can I do for the reporter quietly? Eavesdrops AS CONQUERING and Arthur's conversation ventures into some dicey territory? The Ohio men have offered me the vice presidency conquering size and frustration. He can hardly contain his rage. Well Sir you should drop it as you would a red hot shoe. From the forge I sought you out to consult. Conquering is having none of it. What is there to consult about? Trickster James Garfield would be defeated before the entire country other there. There is something to be said. Don't tell me you're thinking of accepting the office of the vice. President is a greater honor than I ever dreamed of. Attaining a baron nomination would remain a great honor in a calmer moment. You will look at this differently defined conquering snaps. If you wish for my favorite my respect you'll contemptuously. Decline it senator conquering accept the nomination and I shall carry with me. The majority of the delegates conquering had plans to make Arthur his most valued ally United States senator. He feels angry betrayed. His candidate has just lost the nomination. Now he's losing a protege and a friend but CONKLIN can tell from the look on Arthur's face that his mind is made up so without a word caulking turns and storms out of the room. Arthur watches his friend walkout as the reporter furiously. Jots down notes The conversation between conquering and Arthur was recorded for posterity. By a man named William Hudson reporter for the Brooklyn Daily Eagle though some historians have doubts about the authenticity of the conversation. Not Enough due to discount it entirely whether it's fact or fiction. This much is true. Republican nominee James Garfield needed all the help he could get unlike grant. Blaine and Sherman Garfield did not have political machinery already. Working on his behalf he would start by playing from behind but Garfield was confident. He could secure the support of both general grant and James Blaine as well as the bulk of their supporters. Indeed both grant and Blaine would ultimately campaign for Garfield but Garfield new. That would not be enough with a south. A solid voting block for General Hancock. The eighteen eighty contests would come down again to the state of New York in order to defeat Tammany Hall. The Democratic political machine in New York Garfield would need the stalwarts in his corner. He had made the politically astute move by offering chester. Arthur the vice presidency. He had hoped that if Arthur joined the ticket he would bring with him. The support of many in the New York delegation ultimately Arthur was chosen as the vice president nominee on the first ballot but carpooling still held the reins of power in New York and he was reluctant to get on the Garfield Bandwagon. When asked if he would support Garfield Arthur ticket? Conquering allegedly replied. That he'd rather be thrown in jail. Collings hold out was perhaps sour grapes but it was also strategic in exchange for his full throated support. Conquering wanted. Something return as he told a reporter. There are some matters which must be attended to before I can enter the canvas. Conquering wandered the Treasury Department. To keep its hands off the New York Custom House and entity the collected federal taxes on imports conquering had long controlled the customhouse and has over one hundred million dollars in annual revenue. He also wanted control federal patronage in New York to decide who would get to fill the thousands of jobs and posts in the state conch demanded the Garfield visit him in person in Manhattan to come to an arrangement in late July Garfield wrote. I am very reluctant go. It is an unreasonable demand. That so much effort should be made to conciliate one man. But General Hancock's campaign was already up and running and he made a formidable opponent. The former civil war hero who fought at the battle of Gettysburg was a household name. He was also largely a political which meant the Democrats could fashion his image. Any way they saw fit. This fact alone made Hancock dangerous and so in early August Garfield made the long journey to New York when he arrived he was disappointed when Conkland gave him. The brush didn't show up for their appointment but Garfield made the most of his trip getting face time with a long list of influential Republicans in the state. It was days later. When Garfield met behind closed doors with Chester Arthur and several conquering supporters in a suite at the fifth avenue. Hotel one of conclaves men laid out the score. Conklin wanted to know who Garfield plant reward? With New York's patronage the dissenters who turned their backs on grant or his loyal stalwarts allegedly Garfield trying to ease their concerns. New York belong to conquering. He had no intention of upsetting. The order of things. Garfield allegedly promised conclaves men that he wouldn't do anything in New York without their express approval and turn allegedly conkland men promised Garfield he would have their full unflinching support on the campaign trail. Though Garfield would later deny the existence of any quid pro quo with conquering. Certain facts. Strongly suggest that promises were made and delivered conquering maintain control in New York and in return he went on the road and stumped for James Garfield so by the end of August Garfield had united his party around his candidacy. Garfield supporters campaigned on a variety of issues from checking the southern states in their efforts to suppress civil rights to protecting the black vote from public education to controlling the flow of Chinese workers into the West Coast. But there was one issue conspicuously absent from the Garfield Platform the Labor Rights of American workers in the final weeks of the eighteen eighty contest. Democrats would try to use this issue to their advantage. During the fall of eighteen. Eighty James Garfield did not openly campaign on the road instead he stayed home in mentor. Ohio and made a plethora of to hundreds of visitors while Garfield focused on what was called his front porch campaign. His supporters launched a relentless effort. Nationwide in the press. They attacked handcock as the candidate of the KKK and the Democrats party of the confederacy they highlighted Garfield rise from poverty to the top of American politics and hailed his long record of service to the country. I in the army and later in Washington but Hancock and the Democrats mounted a deft opposition light. Hancock remained at his post on. New York's Governor's island and left the dirty work to his friends and supporters in the press. Democrats cast Garfield as a feeble corrupt politician frequently. Reminding the people of his involvement in the credit mobilier scandal one of the many scandals that plagued president grant's administration Garfield had profited from the scheme to the tune of three hundred twenty nine dollars over ten thousand. Today's money then two weeks before the election. A Pro Democrat newspaper in New York delivered the Garfield campaign a crushing blow when they published the morey letter. The New York truth claimed the letter was written by James Garfield to a union leader in Massachusetts named H. L. Maury text printed on the front page read yours. In relation to the Chinese problem came to lead to hand. I take it that the question of employees is only a question of private and corporate economy individuals or companies. Have the right to buy Labor where they can get. A cheapest Garfield was known to be vulnerable on labor rights and issue. That didn't even make it. Into the Republican platform and with New York in doubt and the south solidly behind handcock Garfield needed to win every state when the election including California Democrats widely distributed the maury letter in the hope that they could push workers on the west coast away from Garfield and towards General Hancock. The Democratic National Chairman stood by the authenticity of the letter saying it is Garfield Handwriting. Denial is worse than useless. The New York truth stood by the letters well for a time two months after the election. The New York truth would finally admit that the Maury letter was a fake. The most obvious clue was that the author misspelled Garfield last name additionally. Ahl Maury was not a real person a few days after the letter appeared. Garfield responded in print writing that the letter was the work of some clumsy villain who cannot spell nor write English nor imitate my handwriting every honest and Manley Democrat in America. Who IS FAMILIAR WITH? My handwriting will announced forgery at site put the case in the hands of able detectives and Hunt The rascals down. Garfield Stern convincing response was published in newspapers. All over the country. It was still an open question. Though whether California readers would believe it on national election day Tuesday November second over nine million. Americans cast their ballot. Seventy eight point. Four percent of all eligible voters. It was one of the largest voter turnouts in the history of the country in the end. The Democrats October surprise was enough to cost Garfield California but not enough to overcome Garfield national popularity. The eighteen eighty election resulted in the closest popular. Vote Margin in American History Garfield WanNa Popular Majority by less than ten thousand votes. He won two hundred fourteen electoral votes hancock. One one hundred fifty five. If New York's thirty five electoral votes had gone to Hancock. The Democrats would have won the election in that state over. A million votes were counted Garfield. One I Amir. Twenty thousand New Yorkers. It's not an exaggeration. To say that had roscoe conquering not back Garfield he likely would have lost the election. It was party. Unity at put Garfield into the White House but almost immediately after taking the oath Garfield was again confronted by a splintering of the Republicans when he stacked his cabinet largely with half breed Republicans conquering. The stalwarts were furious when he made attempts to pacify the stalwarts with favourable appointments. The half breeds were incensed. The party was divided and Garfield was between a rock and a hard place in the midst of the mouse from. There was one man in Washington who had a plan to bring the party back together. This longtime stalwart Republican reckon. The best way to unity was to remove James Garfield from office but this man was no ordinary Republican from New York. There was a deranged madman with a chip on his shoulder and the fall of eighteen. Eighty one Charles Goto with C. Garfield for removal not by political means but through a violent assassination on the next episode of wicked game. The election of eighteen eighty four in the wake of James Garfield Assassination Vice President. Chester faces a broken nation and Republican party divided over the question of reform an issue that sets the table for a presidential contest between two men looking to bring change to Washington Maine Republican. James Blaine and New York Democrat grover. Cleveland don't miss a single week of our march from seventeen. Eighty nine to twenty twenty. Hit the subscribe button and your podcast now. This show is supported by you. Our listeners please give us a rating leave a review but the single best way to help the show to tell others share with your friends and family find us on social media that wicked game pot. And I'm at Lindsey Graham. Another way to support this show is to go to wicked game. Podcast DOT COM members. There get early access to add free episodes as well as bonus content only available to members. Find out more at wicked game. Podcast DOT COM and about our reenactments in most cases. We can't know exactly what was said but everything in our show is heavily researched based on surviving historical documents. Where you game is an airship production created hosted and executive produced by me. Lindsey Graham sound design by Darren Barons Co executive produced by Stephen Walters in association with ritual productions written and researched by Stephen Walters fact checking Greg Jackson and Seattle Salazar from the podcast history. That doesn't suck music by Lindsey Graham distributed by wondering.

handcock Garfield James G. Blaine Blaine Garfield Roscoe Manhattan Roscoe Conklin Chicago New York Party president senator James Garfield reporter James Garfield Chester Arthur Garfield Bass Sherman Ohio Blaine United Garfield Stern