17 Episode results for "Willie joy"

BIG ANNOUNCEMENT TIME

Back To Back

03:58 min | 4 months ago

BIG ANNOUNCEMENT TIME

"Yellow what's up backbackers. Willie here all right. This is it. I've been teasing it for weeks is time for the big announcement and look what i want to say. First before we get into anything is that nothing is going to change as far as you getting this podcast every single week. We're not going anywhere. In fact there may be even more episodes even more content for you a little ways down the line. So what is changing. You might ask. Well let me tell you. We've been working on this for a while. I am officially partnering up with twitch to bring back to back to bring the podcast over to twitch and what that means is that all the episodes of back to back from now on. They're going to be recorded. Live live in front of an audience. Live in front of you You could be that audience if you wanna come hang out. While we're recording coming out in the chat participate in these conversations. There's going to be a way to submit questions for us to answer if you're on the bag discord and Yeah this is why. I've been pumping the discord these last couple of weeks. You're going to know in advance who the guest is going to be. You're going to be able to submit your own questions. Questions that might get asked In the actual interview. And then you're going to be able to watch us have these conversations maybe ask your questions live on twitch. I'm really excited about this. I always say the interacting with with you guys with the community here at back to back is one of my favorite parts of doing this show. And now we're gonna get to do that even more so it's gonna be great. I want you to come join me. twitch dot tv slash willie. Joy is where it's all going to go down and we are starting off this wednesday june ninth. My first guest on the new live version of back to back an old friend. Epic is coming back to the show. Epic was my first pandemic guest when the show switched over to zoom More than fourteen months ago. And so i thought it was only appropriate to have him back as we bring the show over to twitch dealing. It live in front of you so this wednesday two. Pm pacific time. That's five pm east. Coast time com hop on twitter. Dot tv slash. Willie joy come hang out with us. Coming out with me and epic while we're chatting and look if you can't make it or twitches in your thing whatever it may be. That is all good to all these conversations. They're still going to be released on whatever podcast platform. You're using to listen to this right now. Every single week the way it has always been. And we've got some plans for what we're going to do with this twitch channel. There might be a lot more content for you coming very shortly before right now. That's what i wanted to say. That's what i wanted to tell you back to back partnering up with twitch. I'm really excited opening it up. So you guys can come hang out while we're recording these conversations. You guys can be a part of these conversations. Joined the bag discord. The link is in the description of this little announcement as well as on. All of my socials submit some questions for me and let me know what you want to hear us talk about. And then come hang out with us this wednesday two pm on twitch twitch dot tv slash willie joy and we are going to kick off this new phase of the podcast together. I will see you on twitch. Wednesday and the podcast. The recording of that conversation will return next tuesday and every tuesday after that You know until forever. I guess until infinity. Podcasts is not going anywhere guys but now you can sit in on the recording of it. I more ways to watch more ways to listen more ways to get involved Look i love this community. So much much loved you guys. I hope you're doing well out there if you're around tomorrow. If you're around wednesday the ninth. Come hang out with me on twitter otherwise i will see you next tuesday much. Love guys for back to back. This is willie joy peace.

Willie joy Willie willie willie joy twitter
220: NGHTMRE returns

Back To Back

1:46:30 hr | 2 months ago

220: NGHTMRE returns

"This is back. what about backers. This is willie joy. Welcome to the show. This is back to back. This is my podcast. Were back another tuesday in the books. How you feel and how you doing now but for real how you doing you do an irate. You feel an okay to have a decent week to get to see some friends at some fun. Did you get to not think about the all the shit you don't want to think about for a little while. Get a celebrate those moments those little sparks of of joy no pun intended. But sometimes there's not another word and speaking of Little sparks joy extremely fun moments with friends. Nightmare is back on the show. Three years later. I could not believe it had been three years. Nightmare is back. We had such a good time. Catching up He just dropped a new remix for millennium. That is out right now as well as he dropped new music video for his song scars with young pinch he has a lot of tour dates coming up for the rest of the year. His good vibrations record label that he runs with. Slander is releasing a lot of amazing music. Most recently from leo tricks Another artist i love and as you will soon hear in this conversation nightmares working on a new album. And if you want to know more about that keep listening because we dive deep into what's going on with that but look for all of that. The new music the tour dates everything. There's gonna be a lincoln the description of this episode where you can go follow nightmare. Keep up to date with everything he's doing. Grab the music look. Do you really need me to sell nightmare to you. At this point go support him. Go grab all the new music. He's the best and also well you are. They're checking out that link in the description to go follow nightmare. You're going to see a few more links in there. The most important one is the link to my twitter channel. Where every single week. I'm recording episodes of this. Podcast live in front of your eyes and not only. Can you come and watch in real time but you can come participate. You can come hang out in the chat. Ask us questions We always leave time at the end for. Qna section and i really love Recording these episodes with with you guys hanging out in the audience. It's been great. I would love to have you come. Join come hang out. I'm recording episodes of this podcast. Every monday and wednesday it's twitch dot tv slash. Willie joy i'm also doing. Dj sets on their Tuesdays and thursdays usually and then every friday Me and one of my best friends listened to all the new releases from that week. And we're also listening to your demos if you're a music producer. Come through your demos place your whips we will give you feedback we will give you a critique and i've really been feeling the energy from that show that show it's called do it bang. It's every single friday ten. Am pacific one pm eastern. Come through company or any day of the week. I'm streaming a lot these days guys twitch dot tv slash. Willie joy would love to see you. There would love to see you in the back to back discord as well if you're a music producer and you want to listen to your music live on stream the best way to do that. Is we take submissions on the back to back discord each week so hit the lincoln the description here come join the discord. Come follow me on twitter and then submit your music. And i'll give you my reaction. How's that sound sound all right. Good good deal. Good talk good talking with all right guys. Nightmare is here. He's one of the people in my life where it was. Actually this podcast that sort of bill to the relationship that we have with each other. I think the first time we ever met in person was the first time we recorded his earlier. Appearance on this show three years ago and this time was was no different than a super sized episode. We talk about everything really dive in a lot into what's going on with writing his album right now. It's got a lot of really cool ideas for it. There's a whole concept i mean. I'm not going to spoil you. Gotta you gotta listen to find out but we do a little bit of a deep dive. He's he's doing a lot. He's also working on a tv show with his brother. Look guys i could go on and on but the point is there was a lot to talk about and we we really covered it all. I think you'll be able to tell. I was having a blast with this one. I hope you have a blast listening to it as well if you do. Of course i would love to hear from you. A shout out to everybody who's been supporting the back back. Podcast not just in in recent memory but you know for the last four and a half years and every time i see that support whether it is tagging us on social media at willie joy at back. Toback pod whether it's telling a friend to check out the show whether it's Telling your favorite artists that they should come beyond the show all of that support. I mean it just builds this community this amazing group of people that have come up around this podcast in the last few years. It's a community. I'm very thankful for. And of course anytime i see us getting tag getting talked about. I'm always going to be replying. Interacting with whatever you're putting out there just generally saying hi getting annoying whether it's on twitch on discord on social media anywhere. I love meeting listeners. Of this show so much love to all of you and i hope you love this episode. Let's do it right now. This is me and nightmare back to back. Lesko food my man. It's great to see you know. I just said it two seconds ago. They really is going to see your face. It's okay so how long do you think it's been since you did. The podcast the first time because i had to look this up all right. I mean my thought. I wanted to say. Three years ago. I'd feel like it was like before that omnia show in san diego i mean. I remember vividly but i just feel like no. You're spot on actually. It was three years almost three years to the day. Yeah isn't that crazy though. 'cause i remember that day so vividly to and now it's like that was three years ago. Yeah it feels. I dunno it's weird. It is weird man. Do you have this i always. I always talk to people about this. Because i have. There's certain moments and not even significant moments but just kind of random moments like that day where we were hanging out at the hotel before omnia like i have a crystal clear vision of that and then there's other things you know arguably more important things in my life that i have no memory of on your percent. Yeah as you like that especially when you're traveling a lot like there's so many times that something that happened like a week ago feels like it was a long time ago but something that happened a year ago feels like it was just the other day i i don't know just using it gets overwhelming. Man i do you have. I mean okay so this is kind of a weird question to start it off. But it's a question i've been asking. A lot of people recently is like. Do you have any of those memories like just the the random ones. This isn't the like what was the craziest show. You ever played got a question but just some of those random ones like maybe like a weird person you saw at the airport or somebody said at five in the morning just like runs in your head a lot of the time and you don't know why i don't know i don't know i mean i feel like i always am kind of surprised about belittle memories that i have when people bring up like a very random show like you remember that journal in lawrence kansas or whatever four years ago and i may have to show like i gave me this bracelet and it said this on it. I'm like wow actually. I do remember that. That's pretty crazy but like yeah. I don't know i mean i think I guess maybe some of the very very random. Like i feel like i spent only maybe like two or three weeks like ever total doing like shows in eastern europe. But they're all just the most memorable random like crazy significant happening but like i just remember being like playing in estonia and just like everything being snow everywhere at all times in like eating out. This old like restaurant that had been. There's like four hundred years just all of this. I don't know just very random little things like he said. Yeah well those are beautiful man. I mean especially the eastern europe thing i remember. I remember playing in poland and one. I think it was paul and and i feel like eastern europe when you go there for shows. I mean obviously for like what you do. There's maybe less call to go to eastern europe and if you were like attack no dj read but when you do get to go. Yeah it's almost has like a more like indeed. Diy feel to it like the venues in the shows and the places you go all of it like it was charming in a in a way where i was like. Oh this is still like indie. Like this isn't you know in the states like a guy like you. You're gonna you know the your big show is they're gonna play big venues owned by big companies all that kind of thing but out there. I feel like it's so wild west on your present. I feel like base. Music to drum. Base is is pop in an like certain types of bass music like in germany is really crazy that certain areas. There's like a few specific spots but most eastern europe like i don't know yeah it does feel pretty underground when i played there and like but it was still like. I don't know yeah it was. It was fun because it did. Give me like i dunno. I feel like whenever i play there. I do love being able to refute drum based on to my side and have it unlike be appreciated. You know. well there's that eternal debate right. I was just talking to somebody about this. I feel like every year. Everybody in like the edm community is like this is going to be the year when drumming based breaks to the states. That feel like. I've just heard that every year for ten years in a row i mean. Have you seen a drum bass. Appreciator that i know you are have you. Does that ring true to you. Do you feel like that can ever really happen here. I mean i think so. I think it's a slow steady build like I don't know. I mean i. I don't know if it will. It will eventually happen to you. Know i feel like there's always like kind of when something becomes super popular. It seems like it's like it's combination of do things that already exist in like someone kind of combined together. Make something new with screw. It's it was like rock and roll in like crazy electronic music and it was like trap music hip hop electronic just kind of just evolving and it feels like eventually there could be a really nice blend of of the two. I don't know we'll see. Yeah yeah we'll see. I mean i hope so. I mean i like playing agree. Burn dues like that who are just going super hard Ever really cool brand. Have a great chance that like you know bringing it to like main stages and things like that. I think so too man and i mean there's there's people in the states drum bass. Dj's who have been holding down for so long to that it'd be great to see some of that like the diesel boys of the world like really get there do because that dude. I mean he's a boys a better. Dj than any of us ever seen these away like alan first festivals islands in baltimore like so. Yeah it was like literally blew my mind. It's crazy yeah no. He's nuts man. But i like what you said a second ago about how the artists we looked to kind of the torch. Bearers the people the pioneers a lotta times. What they're doing is actually kind of a simple thing. Right of just sort of taking to different ideas putting them together in a unique way or just sort of flipping something small about you know genre or a sound and maybe that's the key. Maybe maybe that's just what hasn't been done exactly right yet in the states right. Yeah i mean. I think like once it kind of feel like it snowballs. Once there's like a big german base artist or something you know it's like then people come grow up listening to it are hides about it and then when they music they wanna make drama based in this whole eating revolution of people making that kind of thing and i mean i remember hearing tony hawk. Talk about that too like he. Did this nine hundred dollars blue people's minds and now there was literally like eight year old kid or something ridiculous but it's a whole generation of people grew up skating so obviously people are way better. And i don't know it feels like the stuff that ends up. Being huge popular is generally organic. But it is like you know you know go. Whatever that artists personal taster swing on like things that influence them which you know. Maybe it's rock music in this thing. Maybe it's german basin. You know based. Mike heavier dub steps type stuff whatever. Yeah so okay in a couple of things in there that you said you mentioned tony hawk. And i'm gonna put a pin in that and come back. Because i know you did something with him over quarries in but while we're talking about you know artists having an identifiable sound a style you know inspires another generation of kids to want to be like them. You know from from the last time. I talked to you until now i mean you've put out such a wide like breath of music and styles and i feel like the last time we talked was sort of it was after you know you had initially popped onto the scene and you'd had some big tunes and done so big tours but i i was listening back in a lot of what we were talking about you or talking about what i think was going to be kind of the next phase of of where your sound was heading. And since then you know you've put out music with a ton of different producers a ton of different like hip hop artists again a wide range of styles. I guess i'm saying all this to ask you. Do you feel like you've established your sound in a way that you're comfortable with at this point. Do you think there is a nightmare sound. Do you feel like you know what you sound like at this point. Because that's where. I think. I mean i think i like especially recently in you know as years have gone by feel like it's just grown naturally but i've always kind of like tried to focus more and more on. Just doing what i like and what i think sounds cool and then putting it out and not stressing too much about whether it is my sound. One hundred million percent or whether certain people aren't going to like it or dislike or whatever right Just because it's so easy to get caught up in thinking like that. And and i think just from my tendencies of being a producer in like the way i ended up doing vocal chops in certain processing methods us. Or you know whatever since deserves our precepts or things that i use my go-to sounds and stuff like that in a way like i'll play things people that i think don't sound like me. And they can totally tell nightmare thing. Just because of whatever certain little things that i think identifying music in You know. I think i do definitely think a little bit about like a would this fit into my live show or what does not sit in my live. Show but in the end Necessarily stray me from like just putting out music. That i liked me. No yeah no one hundred percent men. And i mean part of that i think is is just confidence right of you know you've been doing this for awhile. You've put out enough songs. That i think your fan base will follow you like. I think it's been you know you've kept it wide enough with your sound. I feel like the people who like what they do. They like you for you. Know for your brand not for not one to one sound a little bit of kinda of my thought. Even when i first put out like the nightmare. Ep part one. The first thing that i did Has like kind of hip hop song in like a trap banger and like house kind of song and melodic song and i was kind of like i wanna just put out all these and then everybody knows that i don't know it's just kind of there's no set like i only make this sound and then your fans are like why are you making billion for some what's interesting to hear you say that you were thinking about that even back then because i think especially early on a lot of artists aren't really considering You know yeah. I mean i think probably relative to a lot of people had a pretty like well thought out like start of my career in a way like i mean i had been making music for while and you know when taking digital music. Prussian classes and producing is a hobby like learning from Orioles in reading manuals and doing all that stuff and then i went to icon. And then i finished you know one year digital music production school and then i started nightmare so like through all of that stuff i was thinking about. Okay what am i doing wrong with his first thing. What's going to make it better than i met management and you know it was like it was definitely pretty thought out and you know i was. Certainly you know talking to other artists in you. Hearing people complain. Don't they ever be. Bob fans getting mad or upset about someone not making a sound same sound and it's like very maintenance this for five years like obviously we all grow in our case jeans and everything like that. So yeah well. That's funny to write because you never know when someone started listening to to you know you for something new and then you know it'd be like why don't why you just always make that and you're like well look at the back catalogue. Man mean that's the thing that i've learned the most though is that still dislike. One person is like commenting something. You're saying something's you and it's like it's so easy to get caught up in like what one random person is like saying liner commenting or influencing you in like. It's just better to try even read anymore. It's like oh. I feel good about it and like you know that's all that really matters. I guess that's definitely all they really matters. Man i mean e- even because the thing is like let's flip this hypothetical situation say you were super worried about what everybody thought. And you're making music only to please other people. Even if that music was successful you wouldn't be happy right at the end of the day. No on your present. I mean. I i mean and you know. That certainly doesn't take anything away from the value of the fans of the importance of the sandstone. Like giving back hands and all that stuff he it can definitely you can get inside your own head too much. If you're just trying to please everybody. I've been one. This tattoo is like a one-third and that's what it's about it's like it was only my dad always said and it's a third of no matter. What decision you make. A third of people will approve. Third will disapprove a third. Don't even care so it's like just do you know. Stick to your guns. Like trust your. I love that man and you know when you're on the podcast last time. Which by the way for anybody watching now or listening back later you know you gotta check out the nightmare part one podcast for for the whole superhero back story but you know we talked a bunch about your parents on that one. But i'm not sure we actually talked about. What did you dad do like. That's very inspiring thing to tell a kid leg. What did he do that gave him that perspective. I mean he Well you know my. He was born in budapest in hungary. And he Came over to the united states. In like mid-fifties hungarian revolution going on communism and everything. So that his basically my grandfather escapes brought everyone to the states or the likability refugee camp hawaii ended up Like you know getting a place to live and work in all those kinds of things My grandfather was like you know out in went back to basically keno in exchange for taking care of the family and everything went back to You know help in in in the war in revolution stuff. While during that process he died while he was back so my father grew up with his two brothers. And you know my grandmother and they're obviously working super young growing up again got alone which college all those things like. Definitely full like american american dream status. You know how But yeah i mean it's i. I don't know how exactly that play. I feel like it's just a life lesson kind of more than you know. i mean. He does literally construction materials in north carolina. And it's like completely different. From what i do it and and completely different from you know everything that i do every day. So it's it's funny. But you know i think the reason why i love it so much to is because it feels like a advised to almost everything. Oh that's absolutely right. Yeah that's absolutely right. And i mean you know whether or not you guys do the same thing for work. I think that's so inspirational to you. Know come over from another country and forge a whole new life. I mean that kind of again. That's outside of any career that's outside of any that's just The perspective that kind of thing would give you on life. Yeah that kind of wisdom. I think is something you only learn by by going through something kind of the same way i mean. This is an awkward segue. But i think it's kind of the same way where you know. It's hard for people to understand. Exactly what the lifestyle is like of what we do without actually doing it right because all you see is sort of the the the social media instagram post. The big festival plays all that kind of thing. And i know we talked on this show you at i kinda got into into the nitty gritty of the the stuff. That's not so fun about this. The the late nights in the airport the airport sandwiches. How has it been. We haven't been doing that for awhile right like we're only starting to get back into it now and i saw when i knew we were coming to talk i was looking at some of your social media and just you know refreshing myself on what you've been up to and there were. You made post like right at the beginning of lockdown talking about you know that you needed a break and you are going to take some time. Make an album all that sort of thing. Obviously of us got a break. You feel like you got what you needed out of that break I definitely do I think more than i ever thought that i could have like. I think like even at that time. Like when i posted that it was like i was just super bike. Emotionally draining physically drained. Just like had been touring so much and had done to back to back bus tours which like are particularly exhausting and I think in my mind. I was like man. I need like two months off like that was like impo. Like sounded impossible in my mind and then like two months goes by. I'm like dude. I need like at least a year of Just organizing everything in my life and like you know. There's just so many things that i feel like. I just was not worrying about. Because i was doing stuff under all the time and and you know gave me so much more time to like exactly. Just write music and enjoy like you know. Having days where i don't have to do something and i i can just be in the studio creating just to create and not be like studio day so i convinced that out before i go back on tour rider was like always just always like fighting like catch up before and this kind of forced me to take the time today. Okay years louis. Nothing i can do for a year. So i need you know. Want plan a big. You know i. I was planning on trying to take off time at the end of twenty twenty like october november. Was anyways yeah. Exactly and i was like all right now then and yes so this time. Kind of came naturally and I had music that. I had started a little bit like you know. I had a million projects that i had started in. And i wanted to kind of like piece together. Something like a musical piece or story. That was more than just of songs together. I think i'm cool together. You know has the meaning or influence or tells my story little better like all these types of things. So yeah i like kinda like just super deep into working on that and i have One of my a really good friend of mine now and He's been like a creative director kind of for me and for Doing all my graphic design stuff for the last two years i guess. Almost three years and I wanted to be one long piece of music. The album to be one long thing that flows together a one piece of music. But you know it's everything flows into each other and as meaning within you know and the you know the court like the the the keys of each song flow together like perform it all in one hour thing and everything nice sounds nice together and all that kind of stuff and you know i also wanted to do a video portion of everything you know videos for everything kind of almost like a film in a way Yeah but i think it's kind of now. progressed to where each music radio canada portion of the story. But the videos don't necessarily all flow together but the music will for together read have just been like having mostly done honestly. I've got most of the the music is finished. There's like a couple last vocals in things That i'm wrapping up in like this one other feature that i'm still trying to kind of figure out. My hope is to start kind of rolling out the end of this year. Also have like a billion other songs. That i just wanna start putting out and so i'm trying to put out music as much as they can. Essentially before the album comes out red and trying to really scheme like the album tour and making it really cool and special and you know rather than doing forty giant dates for an album for the tour. Whatever picking like. I'm gonna do like you know twelve or something like that. You know a very specific like albom show and it will be only in bigger cities or whatever you know places where i can have the customer stage and everything that i wanna do for in. That's a latman so it's a lot but it's cool. I'm really excited in You know we've been diving. It's very very into the like Like like eighties. Like kind of combined with like future metaverse. The lanes like corporation like dream worlds titanium nightmare like actually kind of drew dream You know based in kind of this whole idea of better versed and things like that. You're speaking my language is it Are you going as far as an actual narrative running through it. Yeah so i mean. Essentially is the hero's journey in a way Bike we're still kind of pin pinpointing like the final bid of like the actual character like the main character whether like whether it's me basically or whether it was his a figure like someone who can kind of like everyone can relate to but yeah it's kinda i mean your i feel like we've probably even talks about the years journey like last time on the show or something but we might. Yeah it's kind of a. I don't know if you're familiar. But it was something we learned that icon to we talked about. And it's this you know. This guy spent his life studying these religions in trying to figure out what the What the common theme was ended up being this heroes tale. Where like you know. There's a person in there like current state environment in there like saturday. Unhappy for whatever reason want to change. It can't figure it out and this call to adventure in you know. Accept the call to adventure go out into the unknown world and then they have fight all their trials and tribulations overcome their biggest fear and they return home a better person like all this kind of. It's this story that you've seen everything needs the backbone of like every task so that was kind how i wrote the music is like i'm going to write the music inspired by these steps of this journey and like you know a song that starts know the first ones i kind of crossing thresholds on his eerie uncomfortable. Kind of oh shit like my about to get into kind of thing you know this beautiful moments in love moments. In and like overcoming your. You know there's one song called on love that go together and it's like this. You know just crazy dark banger. And then beautiful melodic cast and The last song's called like another dose german based on it back uber excited to do that. It's called it's called on like you said it's kind of that's that's really it all agree man. Yeah i i love. I love all of that band. And i think that's whether it ends up being you or or somebody else. Just a you know generic character. I mean i think. That's like sticking to the classics as far as structure goes. That's always the way to win. You know yeah. And i think yeah. I mean we're like we've been going so deep on like i mean. Just the backstory too so. I feel like that's something that really gives. People context in trying to figure out ways to get the backstory across and it can be hard. What's up can be hard to to like. Get the con- the full concept across. That's one of these things like this. Do my buddy in killing it out like we. I mean we have like honestly. I mean i could go into all of it and just like ours. Talking about random but drops we can come back in sort of dissect it a little more. Yeah that'd be awesome. I mean the idea like the name that i wanna use for his dream verse and so like for the name of the owl menu hopefully eventually have show in all the streamer stuff and Yeah i think that you know it's kind of just goes along superstore version but essentially like you know there's either like this kind of government or it's not a government it's just a company corporation or whatever you know. Group of people started out in the garage. Kind of have you know. Made a scientific breakthrough where they figured out you know with whatever combinations of certain dmz certain frequencies and things like that whatever they can now instead of like you know they can actually just control you in a dream verse like you could. You could give you control dosage. Send you industry world basically and so within the dreamworld there's like other frequencies year another frequencies that you can see in all these different types of things so part of that is the music of the album in all these different types of things and you know most of the album like for the you know when when the main characters in in the dream bursts it will be animation. And when they're outside it'll be like real life. I love a man. it's kind of like Kind of like lucid dreaming. Yeah yeah yeah. That's really really interesting. It's also like Somebody said it's like inception but about drugs literally a little bit. But you know it's like it's like something that we almost felt like could happen at some point. Obviously you can go even deeper and get into the. Oh like multi multi universe like dreamworld. But we're keeping it as kind of a senior universe you're able to travel into some people are using this technology for good and some people are not handy. That i'm i'm just really impressed that you have this level of depth honestly because i i i think we're all familiar with like you know an album drops and the who whoever the artist is like. Oh yes you know. Welcome to my world. That i created for you but there's not really much there you know if you poke it. So i'm i'm impressed. Man this is. This is a lot of detail. It's definitely one of those things. Where like the more that you do it the more that you wanna make it even bigger and better and cooler than now like yeah. I mean we've been. I've been trying to work. I mean i've been working a like my first virtual metaverse set during code with in central land. Like here. yeah. We talked about that for a second. Yeah totally i. Meanwhile is like it was super cool and Yeah what was what was the for people who don't know and by people who don't know me you know what exactly was different v our performance. Bogus what made it. Different from other vr performances. It was a new experience for me to like. I was like met with a decent people. They approached me about it and they're always like please explain. J. virtual reality exactly. Like i'm familiar but i was like and i'm into it and i love like the technology and everything like that but i just hadn't spent much time doing it and i you know i read about decentral land in learned all about people you know buying selling their land and like all this crazy. You know metaverse stuff But essentially i mean it was inside their casino in essential land so it's this metaverse space and within the space you can buy of land in. Bill have virtual architects bill. Whatever you want so someone builds a casino and you know people could go in. Essentially there wasn't even like it was basically the music which is on the so when you walk into this space in the game. The music starts playing the live set. You can hear me on the mic or doing whatever. I'm just like ear in the studio recording it with no one around like jumping around and and so yeah it was super cool But yeah it was like i was able to go into the game to kind of look around and we actually did it for the purpose of The it was like when me and greg. Mike who is a digital artist that you know always looked up to itself. We're doing our. Nrt thing in so you could basically go into into the casino into this show and on the walls was like all the digital artwork janea and you could like click on the digital art auction or you could go play casino games or you can do whatever it was like literally real so it was crazy. It was like a vegas show but it was like i was gonna say. Did you see if you were performing the virtual casino. Did you have to do a virtual vegas set. I mean no. I mean was still nightmare. Bangers that was just it was laced. Deal with a walk around. Oh yeah man. I mean. Some people really went deep. I kind of wish. I had. But i mean i was talking to to must die and i mean i think he like lived part of corinthian virtual reality. Oh i mean. I get like one hundred percent in the especially like after traveling to like some of these more places like when you go to eastern europe where you go to india or thailand or whatever and i feel like i met a lot of fans in people who like don't have much but they have their phone and they have like a computer at their house in stuff now and so they can go online and like hang out with a friend who's in shanghai and a friend who's in london in poland in new york and and like you know gives them a reason to buy digital merch digital things that like you know these digital collectibles around show their friends at express their online personality into it makes sense to me. Yeah i mean it makes sense to me too man. It's especially as far as i know. We are both introverts. And all that for me. If i hadn't i don't know if you feel this way but if i hadn't started dj and making music. I think probably i would have needed an outlet like you know some vr fingers online community. 'cause i needed something to get me out of my shell you know. Yeah so yeah. I mean we you know we. My goal to for the essential thing do now is like you know. I mean we're talking to them and things like cool so like we can make you. You know not a casino but we can make you. You know. I'm like can we make dream verse and it's like well yes. We could make literally anything on. Think about the laws of physics. And you're just like a can apply. What do i even. And so i've been trying to really dive into that thinking about like. Wow what could we make. Like a virtual space that people experience that is the dream verse. That's like you know inside a little tiny door in the central any walk inside and comes this whole verse you know. Whatever billion different rooms or different doors were leading different places. You know that type of thing too. It's like oh view you know have purchased any of these like digital collectibles are things you can experience special like you know go here especially mixers special song or sees get special merger. Yeah yeah that could be so cruel. Man i mean. There's there's definitely been a few. I don't know if you saw what what porter robinson did with his online sky fast. I was crazy l. Sick yes so nuts man and a few other people to have been making Do you know do you know bt bt. Yeah he did this he yeah yeah he he did this crazy peace. That's like a. I'm going to butcher. And he's gonna kill me but it's it's basically like twenty four hours of music that that is also like twenty four hours of like visual art and depending on what time of day it is where you are when you look at it. It's like different. That's those dead. Yeah i've i've heard people be like this is possible like you could do that. And no one's actually dining at some. I remember like washing bt tutorials like for hours. When i was like me too yes. Because he's such a legend. I mean you know he was. He was popping in the nineties. You know like there's there's it's crazy man so many levels to this when you realize like isn't that a weird thought like you're still kind of a new artist. You know what i know and also like people and also no g like people will be like damn nightmares. Og am. i started touring like five years ago. And i'm still here playing away extremely new and also already. You are new but you feel man. I mean here's a question for you know we're talking about all these new possibilities. We talked about you. Taking a break and feeling recharged after quarantine. Now that things are kicking back up and year back on the road and some of the old life is is coming back in. Is there anything after this. Break that you're going to change anything you learned in quarantine anything about the speed of the lifestyle. The way you tour. I have you had any thoughts about changing any of that. Yeah for sure. I mean i felt like Towards the end of things. Like i said i'll just so exhausted in this like same thing. Snowball effect just like booking things so far in advance that. I just didn't think that much into my schedule is like okay like right now. It's in july or whatever. And you know i mean years stuff is all everything for the rest of the year book. So yeah like you know. When i was in it touring that much to it was even more than that. And it's like february. And i'm something for november sweet. Yeah i wanna go over and then like in july someone comes along and it'll do you wanna play in new york in november like the day you get back and it's like i guess yeah and then all of a sudden you get to november and you're like holy shit. I have to go from texas to new zealand to like purse to like shanghai and then back to new york. And then you're just like i and i was in his lube of like a god and used by take time off and it was hard to do it in with like vegas and stuff too because i have my residency so it was nice because now i've been able to sit down with my agent at my managers. What do we want to do it on my cool five six shows a month max only the coolest best ones. Unless it's like fun underplays. Or like lean. Roy who's going to sell out and it's just a place that i wanna go and have fun and do a great show so yeah in planning more time for myself for like you know. I've been like just yeah just playing for time. Planning it's i feel like is infinitely better. Just planning my tunnel. Better than i was pre cova that makes sense man. I think it's it's hard to plan anything when you're kind of in the middle of the whirlwind of it right. Yeah it was tough for sure. I mean you know like our still approving things. It's not like people were like sending me on the road. Like of course of course. Of course i wanna go. Make money playing australia outlet like of course. I love doing this so what i always wanted to do. But then eventually just like pushing myself will to know for sure man. I mean so. I've told this story on the podcast before so apologies to to listeners or viewers who have heard this. It's one of my favorites. The first time. I ever toured in australia. Randomly on the flight over there was flying from l. a. to sydney and i very randomly i was sitting next to paul oaken. Fold you know speaking of oj's and all that and we didn't talk really the whole flight until the end of the flight and then we were just leaving. And i was like. Hey man sorry to bother you but you know i know who you are and big fan and this is like i was like the little bright eyed kid and i was like. It's my first time touring australia so excited and he was. He was very nice but he asked me about like the routing of the tour. And what. I what i was doing was i was flying from. La to sydney and then immediately sydney to perth. Because that's where the first show was so that's like a fifteen hour flight immediately followed by a six hour and he just looked at me and he extinguished all of my enthusiasm. He was just like you. Book this tour on my gosh. I iran really. I've the only time was i. We played some festival in germany and we somehow randomly shared the same transport rise. He was like telling. You just told me hilarious stories. He ended up being the nicest guy ever. He's so funny. Yeah he was like telling me stories. Basically like you know going to take like thirteen our way in like taking a sleeping bill or something like that and then like waking up two hours later and you're like still on the ground and they're like sir you gotta get off go cancel. There's on you know all all in his charming accent too. Yeah exactly what i saw. I did a podcast episode with him at his house out in. La and was just cr-. I mean he's such a. It's when you realize what a legend he is. Because you know he was like opening for you to in stadiums and he was showing me records off his wall and he was like. Oh this madonna record reminds me. I need to texter for her birthday. And then you just text madonna in front of me. I was like man. I don't even know what we're gonna talk about it. I love those little. Do you feel like music. I'm kind of bouncing around. But do you feel like music just opened up your world in in a sense because for me like whether it's meeting somebody like paulo falls in hearing all these weird stories or whether it's going to you know we talked about you touring in eastern europe and seeing places you never seen like. I always think about for me. If i hadn't started doing this. How small my world would probably be right now. Honey percent. I mean i feel like a lot of lot of the coolest connections and best friends and things like that that i've made. We're kind of random music things that like. I don't know. I just don't even. There's literally no way. I would like you know the tony hawk thing princeton. So yes stuff like that. It's like i. There's no way in hell. I would have ever been working with this person or like somehow fallen into this path. Right met this person or this stuff. Yeah i mean it's it's i feel like it's it's forced me to open myself up to kind of open myself to you know a little bit more of like just like i don't know to be on the road that much you know just going with flo. Yeah one just being around more people and learn to interact and like have a good time with a lot of different kinds of people like being on on the microphone and like a room. Full people literally shit. My band did like the first few shows. I was like shitting panels like this is not. I do not want to get on the microphone. Like i used to. But what kind of kid were you man. Where i i'm i'm to guess you a quiet kid definitely was pretty quiet kid in general To have like a big friend group like where you know if we're splitting up the stereotypical high school groups were you anyway. I was in north carolina. So i went to like a pretty like small private religious school so it was like forty guys in forty girls almost one hundred people dumping and migrate so i knew a few people outside angry but realistically i had like four or five homeys. You're like my my buds. Mike know. I mean we played soccer. I guess but like. I don't know i don't know if it was quite i wasn't into too many clicks. I didn't like joining a fraternity. When i was in college in like. I don't know. I feel like i've always like kind of had friends in every group but never like fully involved in any well. We may have talked about this The first time you're on this show but it's been long enough that i don't even care back then. Like what kinda music were you listening to and second question. Was it a popular thing or were you like the odd one out for liking. Whatever you're listening to. I think I mean i wasn't to a lotta stuff. I think in middle school in in high school is kind of when i really started like really getting music. You know before then. I was just like me. Eat middle school even in before. That was probably i was mostly just listening to rock stuff in my dad growing up with or whatever which was like the doors are cream or like pat. Bannon's are a cdc or like you know just random like little rock stuff like maybe like some fifty cent like the oldest fifty cent like stuff like hip hop like ludicrous of mike things like that. But then once. I started getting into high school. I was like way into like rock stuff like indie rock stuff like heretic monkeys. I mean i love red hot peppers like one of my favorite bands ever. I loved like the black keys like attack. Release album and stuff like that. Rattatte was like oh man bridge aratu ready to You know i was into. I dunno all kinds of stuff i mean i i did like it up stuff and Do you remember. Do you remember when rat-a-tat put out that kind of like mash up. Mix tape thing. Yeah i don't even remember what that was called but that was. That was one of the first times i remember. It was around the era of girl. Talk and that sort of thing but yeah you know. It's funny until you said that i had kind of forgotten i was like man. That's like one of the earliest you know they were. They were predicting what we were going to do. You know on your percent. I mean i remember. I mean yeah. They were making you know it was like drum drums with guitar. Basically but not like. I mean it was mostly trick jones with guitar and heavily processed guitar in layers and layers mid so they sounded like sense. I felt like oh yeah girl talk. I mean girls talk was the the thing that got me into dance music and stuff like that. His he was doing the same thing sampling. Some hip hop song. Some rabs out song in some like you know. Jay z song in the near like some other random old rock like song altogether and then putting his own drums on in. It sounded good. Just like this incredible. Feel like it worked at every party analysis. Then what you know. That was the thing that got eased. I started making my own. You know mashups or whatever like making my own beads. They're trying to recreate instrumentals and things like that and Just trying to. I was like how i started like you know reverse dissecting everything yeah figuring out how it's done right. Yeah yeah it's interesting to hear about you. Know had the ways people start figuring that kind of stuff out because at the start. It's such a it's such a blackhall right. Yeah totally yeah. There's no yeah. Yeah it's great. It's funny i was just talking to like. Yeah yeah scratch out your favorite music right. Now should credible producer. I gotta get him on this Insane but yeah we were talking about this kind of thing that go how we started our. I don't know how a game up but it's like. Oh yeah. I was using reasons for lincoln high school. That was like the thing that i think the first program. Oh we're talking about the lucky date. Tutorials galls man. yeah music to like is using re. My dad got reason for. And then i got five like when i turned eight and i was just like man like dang like ten years old and making music i started at eighteen. Oh it's credit. Don't even get me started on that man. I mean or like last year you know. I had more kismet on the show here back when they were fifteen. And you know and it's it's insane. I mean they're starting so young now. And i mean to be fair. There's more technology and resources now right. So i think it's it's maybe a little easier to dive in. Is there anything you miss from those early days. Like the innocence of it. Sometimes i feel like now. I know too much about production if you know what i mean. Yeah i mean is it kind of like in a way. I mean i at least felt like at the time when i was starting you know i would spend a day two days three days. Whatever in the studio. Like making a sound because i still like i could make a cool unique sound or something like that and i would you know and it will come up something and now feels like there's just so many millions of sample paxton sounds in every possible thing you could ever want to make like. I still do spend time making it but like i don't know it's just everything is like nightmare. Sample facts and i'm going through is pretty sick like you know. Yeah there's tutorial videos of like how to sound like nightmare and it's like good orissa's you're watching them. Yeah this is pretty sick my use this and so i don't know i mean i definitely do miss a little bit of like the just the freedom of like i'm gonna throw this goosebumps remakes on soundcloud and like it's a travel scout song and like doesn't get pull in on erotic kind of just like whatever you have the freedom to just put out creative stuff without having to worry too like if you wanted to put you know you're one hour. Dj mix on soundcloud and things like that. And obviously i think you know it's important obviously to be tracking all this stuff but it was just a fun time because no one knew of things those digital somehow think like those transitional moments right like before soundcloud like i remember you know like napster and lime wire is and all that like all those industry moments where the paradigm totally changes so much. Cool innovation happens in those moments like. We don't need to talk about the legality of it. Because that's not our department right. but like just creatively. There's so much opportunity when when the walls kinda get knocked down like that. Yeah sure yeah. I'm kind of wondering what the next thing is going to be now for for that kind of thing. But before i get off on a tangent i wanted to ask you. You know you're talking about the the freedom of those early days you'd spend a couple of days just making a cool sound because you felt like it. I i was just watching. I don't know if you remember. There's an old video of you produced video that shows you in the studio like hitting pots and pans in front of a microphone and some of that early stop like the sound design in st which i think was one of the first to a lot of people heard from you all that sort of thing. Do you still do stuff like that. Like what does your production process. Look like these days if you you know if you're just in the studio without anything specific to do Yeah it's a good question. I mean i think honestly. I like really have been enjoying like just using like a prophet and things like that Have like an ice. Sixteen boys providel rips through just hip hop stuff. Like i. Love is coming with the loops and things like that And i mean. I know still like mostly box stuff. I guess you know. I still like like i do a lot of collaborations with people in every time your son new thing i come out with no like you know interested in tidying. How this works and how i can utilize for for different stuff like that but I don't know that's that's kind of a thing is like you know i feel like at the time for me to go like snare clank. Like doesn't exist thrive years ago. I had to go find it on three sound dot org whereas now if i searched for cranky snare there's like ten billion options cleanup and so it's like i i do i find myself doing it less often. Because i feel like i can find a good version. Also you know sounds legends everything. But you know it doesn't necessarily have to be my organic sound bytes. Like i'm you know spending the time really. Just find the right sound as easily enough. I think i know where the right place to go to get. It is And sometimes i will do rams stuff like that. Whatever just experiments like if i just have a day of experimenting for sure i'll do more random stuff where like i don't even know you know just trying to use random. Sounds like youtube videos a random things that i can chop into weird stuff or you know something where it's not like spice sample that any person could go. Click and find a and you know or finding a new sense that navy like you know whatever most reminding used they're like just you know whatever the up your mincing with fm since. Yeah yeah. I mean all that stuff. Is you know clearly like that was something that was fun for you early on and i think we gotta we always have to hold onto the fun of it right and like the excitement of what got us into it originally and you mentioned that you know you've been working with a bunch of different people. You've been doing a bunch of labs i always think of you as a very collaborative artist and it makes me wonder you know when you're working with somebody else whether it's a different producer a wrapper or whoever. Whoever it is you think about you know how to sort of like allow space for their ideas and their sound in their creativity and still make sure that it ends up sounding like you if you know what i am. Yeah i mean. I think for me if it's hip hop like i generally am trying to make sure that i've sent them a beat. The bay like already in there into you know I'm always down to get in his studio for the gun song it was like we didn't really have the time to do that so i just like had. A bunch of beads ended up making one the night before. Like in my hotel room. That i was like. I'm just gonna make something that i feel like. He would just five with rather than stuff that. I've already made this nightmare stuff in you know. Play tuesday considers like this one. Let's do it So you know that situation to one hundred percent. I was like especially for the hip hop records and things like that. I'm like i just want you to make us on that. You fuck with like you really love and i'm not like i will make nightmare after the fact like we don't need to worry out you know what i mean. I don't wanna like. I can't bring like a massive crazy banger with like dub step drums to like berg or something like that. You know I'd rather be like cool. It's like i just wanna help you make something really dope and beautiful and awesome like hard or whatever vibe. You're going for like whatever you feel. Inspired to make right now creatively. Yup and then. I will figure out a way to make it nightmare. Yeah no of course. I mean i think that's that's almost like a different way of being creative. Rake because that way you can almost put yourself back in the position of a fan. And i love what this artists does and now i get to like. Make something that they might do something with you know. That's just exciting. And i feel like sometimes we got to sort of check ourselves and put ourselves back to being just fans of something i think for for anyone in this career path. There's always that tendency of like. Oh that's cool. I'm going to try that. Oh this person's doing that you know and you try to do it all yourself. But i'm opponent. I try to keep a few things where i'm just. I'm just a fan and they got enough to do. I feel that for sure. Yeah i mean what was it like you mentioned you mentioned asep burg and obviously i think when we last talked that was maybe like the next big thing that has dropped yet. And maybe about two and that was obviously. That was a big song. But what was the experience like Working with him to make that honestly of like not even just wrappers of like almost all of the artists that worked with it was like one of the most enjoyable anxious. I mean we literally. I mean we didn't even the day that he recorded the vocal. We weren't even in the studio together like we sent. I originally actually met through. Tj maciel who's One half of like alexander smash i just put up that song with him yesterday and But yeah we met like years and years ago and he was producing some kind of producing bees for for sometimes he was just tore. dj He helped accomplice stuff and like You know he would play hype up the crowd with show lights he would play like my dumdum remix stuff like that. So we linked up. And i was like man. I'd love to like produce a beaver for like obviously love to have him on a nightmare song. Like you know whatever anything. I'm super doubt of this huge fan and Yeah i mean like we ended up eventually finding the that you know that was really sick which originally started. Actually 'cause i was supposed to make it for like need for speed. Has little good little like car screeches in it and stuff but yeah anyway so i was like this one. I don't know it was just the perfect vibe. He worked with. It took forever like so long them kind of being like. Yeah would you be able to do with this week or whatever and then one day. It was just like okay. We're gonna we're gonna in like later at night. It was like done in our psychosis amazing but then the real awesome part was when we did a music radio 'cause you know especially the videos like i dunno just certain people hip hop do's and whatever like bigger artists sometimes will just hainault show later. Whatever you're not the time wanna leave early like not you know. Just pull some last minute. Whatever like issue and he was just so good news there. Early volgin was super nice to me. Came right up was like you know just talking whatever like being really nice to everybody. Introducing himself like And you know we hired like you know his barbara in his stylist in his favorite director in all those You'd be comfortable but you know he was out there being like you know. Let's try to get a shot like this. Maybe or like you'll get a photo of us. They're like you know he stayed. We're like we'll have heard from two to five pm today. We're going to get his shots and get him out of here too. So you know he'd get on with his day and he was there until like ten pm just like hanging out like you know washing all the shoes. The nike knows like that's clearly was there to make dope shit. He wasn't there to like. Make some money in go onto the next project which you know a lot of people are especially in those really cool to like have that you know experience with such a nice dude. I mean we've been basically doing the same process now for this album. We have a follow tune in that kind of similar biden can be on the album and Yes just like it's. It's his team just so good. And he's a man. That's good special. Great man i mean. It's it's awesome when somebody gets it. You know what. I mean like you can sell the whole as crew. I think has a pretty good track record of of picking their spots and really like investing in whatever projects. They're doing that. Yeah it's it's really nice and it's it's super rare too. Because i think the marriage of edm with hip hop is always like a very delicate right like it can go south so quickly or like. A bad song can get made so quickly. Yeah it's really hard like that. I don't know the case but if feels like a lot of time in my experience prior to like really getting people like you know that calendar on edm stuff like i said bringing them like something that's on medium so it feels like a hip thing and or like you said sitting with them figuring out what they want to do rather than like making an idiom banger and being like i need to get a vogel up nece you know what i mean like reverse engineering and being like. Let's let's make put him in a situation where he's gonna make the dope vogel possible and utilize it to make a cool song acid facts. I yeah. I love that man i enjoy. Yeah yeah i mean what you're talking about is something i talk about on this show all the time which is in any kind of relationship building you do in your life whether it's for your career whether it's for something creative whether it's just you know trying to make a friend all that you know you gotta you have to have a relationship. I read like you got to. You have to start on the human level of like. How is this person doing today. What mind state are they. And how can i make them feel good. And then you do. All those kinds of things do make a friendship. You know. if you're like me. I mean i like to shift from my friends. Red corner present. Is that what you're saying is you know becomes more and more true every year like you know. People want to work with people they like. Yeah in the higher levels. Yeah hon your present. I mean yeah. That's actually interesting. Because i was thinking about you and the people you choose to work with. Obviously i mean slander of had this. You know this. I don't know what you call partnership friendship. Whatever that's that's carried on through your whole careers. And i know you you do a bunch of work with your actual brother as well and talk about the importance of family and the importance of of your team and that sort of thing because i think you more than some other people have consistently kept working with your friends as your career got bigger and bigger. Yeah i mean. I think i feel like if there's one thing that i took away from business school it was like kind of like you're not the family thing but keeping people who you are working with happy in is gonna make your life way better in your business way better and everything like that and and making sure that people feel like their time is a their appreciation for the time in the effort that they're putting in like you know especially for something like this where it's my. I'm helping you know they're kind of helping me build my vision in a way. It's like it's very hard to like. Get people to want to do that. And so finding you know. Stephen will early on and ben hogan my agent and like all these people who kind of like when we were first starting playing music in them being like i believe in this. Let's all do this together. And you know we've always stuck by other slander too. You know and like you know there's times when been huger. I've been huge or one or the other and we've always kind of supported each other and you know just try to keep building the the process in And you know. I think also obviously through the years of all the touring in the exhaustion of all that kind of stuff like gave me a little bit of like the you know want like just appreciation for having a good family in people who do support me and stuff like that and wanting to spend more time with them and all that kind of stuff so yeah of course man. I mean even you and slander you know. I think you guys are so paired together in a lot of people's minds. But i don't think a lot of people understand i mean that's really rare. I think it's i think it's impressive. I think it's laudable that you know at the level you geyser At that you're still choosing to partner together to work together. And i don't know. I think a lot of people wouldn't do that. I think will certain point like we've seen it happen with people we know are like you start off together and that a certain point everything gets so big that people just split off for one reason or another. I think it's really rare man. Yeah i mean. I think we've kind of had a little bit of a strategy to of Like spending a year or two years of like folks young evacuations and then it spending a year or two years focusing on our individual projects coming back doing our tour leaving It back we did the alchemy tour. Now we're both you know. Slander doing star. I'm gonna try and do as dreamers festival next year than like you know eventually hopefully have a good vibrations thing. You know just slowly expand but still giving you know each person the time to black create their own vision separately and you know while meanwhile having this you know this good vibrations kind of overall record label and you know just kind of like you know ethos for for like what we both do. I think derek is like such a smart visionary like he just knows exactly what he wants and no matter how many people tell him. He's crazier it's about idea or whatever it is like. He always trust his gut. He always like wins. It's like he has such a good like like ability to just like believe in himself and what he knows is good in like you know and n focus solely on like being grateful for everything that he has not. we have. just trying to literally spread positivity. That's like the only thing that like. You know like yeah. I feel accused one of the things he thinks about nine. Stop and it's like you know working someone like that. I feel like for me with someone like that. Was that mindset. Like i let him take the lead on a lot of anr stuff all types of things because he really wants to do it and he has such a good vision for it like some of that mindset like i just i have full faith in that both of them sky know got plenty of plenty of work to like you know with with with the label helping us by google stuff and he just had such a good you know Yes just good taste. I guess in the end right and and a good like mindset and and work ethic and things like that again. I don't think people understand how rare and how valuable it is to have people you can really trust with those kind of career decisions people you can really share your career with. It's very rare. I mean let's talk about the label for a second. The good vibrations label. You know what's what's going on with it. Because i know you've guys have pushed a few different artists but in a different way than i'm used to seeing a lot of artists labels work like correct me if i'm wrong because i could be completely off base but what i've seen. Is you know these like bigger projects from You know a smaller number of artists that have gotten pushed really hard. What's the state of the label. Right now yeah. I mean that's definitely one thing i think we like wanted to folks on to this the wave dash in shady and and a lot of those guys we really believed in a lot of it was like just putting faith into like their music and stuff you know we hear updates every once in a while but we just like you know love them as people the you know they just live by all the same things that we do and we love their music and stuff like that and so when the shows the album was like this is incredible excited and yeah i mean i think we definitely just have kind of focused on you know bringing the people back that we believe in and trying to keep them there and keep them happy and and you know you know with shady and his own coming out now i mean we still for sure like whenever we find signals singles or whatever it will sign them and and you know trying just put whatever goule music that we that we love on the label but i think yeah we need we certainly try to find people that we like believe in in the long-term yeah yeah well okay. So here's a question for you and it's okay. If there is an answer for this but do you think any of your experiences in the music industry so far or any of slanders like anything you've learned has that gone into how you run the label. Are you able to you know for people who are on your label. Are you able to dispense any wisdom that you wish you would have had or run things in a certain way based off of your own experiences. a little bit. I mean i think you know just becoming friends of the guys in you know talking about those things in general helps But yeah i mean we you know we we run the label with insomniac so insomniac all are backing stuff and and we basically split everything with them so it's nice It feels like to do it through them. Because of i don't know just in my experience like this kind of like the little ear label where you know you end up splitting things happen half allows times decent stuff the way i did. It was very flexible. Easier like i retain more my music rides and stuff like that but not as much money upfront things like that. I like when you go to a major label and they want a bunch of money but they don't you know they want to take all of your rights or whatever you know and so. I felt like we wanted to lean more towards the i mean there too like definitely more towards the like you know. We just want to help promote like help. Get people that we think need to be. Heard out there you know and and You know insomniacs been crushing it in terms of like everything that you know they've been doing on the back end to help keep Operating stuff like that but Yeah yeah i. I don't know it doesn't matter. I just a couple board things that you you brought up. And then we'll take a couple of questions. One thing you had mentioned. A second ago was The tour you did with Slander and seven lions and glitch mob which seemed to me. It was cool. I i actually ended up running into the tour randomly. When i think you guys were in baltimore and i was just there walking around like i didn't even know there was a show happening and i kinda ran into the glitch mob out there and stuck around and watch for a while. He was cool man. Like i think i don't know i just want to hear your impressions and memories of that tour because it struck me as a really different kind of tour than the tours that i think big name. Dj's usually do in our industry like it almost felt more like a rock to our. Yeah i mean it definitely felt like that. I mean you know it was like the glitch mob who's absolute legends also three people and then seven lines you know and his crew everybody and then us which is also three people and so it was like three giant store buses like to production buses or like you know it was a big reduction. We had our. You know we had the the atom and everything so You know we were basically you know putting all of our money back into making. Michaud really awesome every night. And things like that And yeah. I don't know. I mean i like that. Like definitely was a little bit like maybe halfway through. That is when i was like starting to get into this phase of just like i'm just so tired like literally like sleep into like do the show until three o'clock or whatever in the morning trying sleep by four maybe five if i'm lucky just because you know the bus moving you're just by joe nyc every week or whatever you know and we by no means. We're like a party bus ie everyone had girlfriends in language like sleep later. Whatever but everyone would be up. Like whatever did we implanted. Mario kart just whatever yup and yeah we just wake up in whatever next city at like you know two or three in the afternoon try and like find do like a shower or go to hotel or do some work if i have to do work for a few hours than like your sound checking by like eight o'clock trying to eat food and then like i don't know it was just like bus. Stores are such a whirlwind of like stuff that like off stage. I like it was like not even that memorable but like onstage was just the best show like every night like the production execution of everything the fans like and like it was always such like. Yeah it was very very well run in a lot of it was like in outdoor amphitheater. Kinda venues right. Yeah i mean that was part of it. She was like we had this such a big awkwardly sized stage that like we had to do very specific than so. Yeah a lot of times had to be a venue with no ceiling. Like whatever like or add to have like a forty foot clearance or not forty but if something like that you know. I've normally tall. We couldn't kiss like just fit it in there if it was like a smaller room so You know that was part of the reason why we needed to do like a big squad tour with so many people can do these giant rooms and Yeah but it was. It was super memorable for the shows. Like show is just so good and you said it was really big rooms bill. Graham like things like that. i mean i. I was talking to To justin from glitch mob. And yeah i think it really from their side to. He said they loved it. And it was incredible tour. But i think it really opened their eyes to 'cause i don't think they get to do those those like edm edm kennedy says you know and it was just cool man. Yeah i very rarely. Do you see that kind of like you know multi style multi sound tours on that level. Yeah to yeah. I mean i feel like it was great because yeah i dunno. Glitch mob is like super cool but less wildly changing energies all the time. It's like more mid tempo vibe like the heavy but not like literally killing little more melodic in cool and awesome than seven lines is like very melodic but also very heavy school. And then. When me. And eric lay together. It's always just like maximum base so flutter but felt like added nice progression throughout the night. Like some know sometimes. I don't know it is nice to have like slightly heavier music as the night progresses rather than just. Oh yeah i mean it's brilliant to me to me. It's like almost obvious that it should be that way. You know but i guess the majority of the industry doesn't really agree with me at this point. Yeah i mean. I don't know i think it's both ways. Yeah yeah yeah. Yeah i mean i. I don't know i. I like i like variety i think. As as deejays producers we listened to everything we like everything and so in my mind. It's like well just put everything on the stage at the same time. It'll be great. Yeah i get that not. Everybody necessarily feels that way. I mean i get it too but yeah i am definitely a fan of having like you know slowly easing people in kind of having this show grow energy throughout the night and stuff like that always promoters also not wait into that. They're just like yes. There's a base show therefore we need all based people there. I get it i get it but yeah you. Did you ever have any early on. Like any weird shows you were opening where it wasn't a good fit I really the only time that i remember. Like maybe was like my basically my first show that i did like nightmare show I don't know the first but it was pretty damn house opening for Used for alvin. Risk observatory buddy kion. Who's like very close homey of all at the time he was like derek Like he's going to book you for show. Like i just put out like right first nightmare remakes like that like just you know unlike a week before something and yeah i mean i remember playing like the first half hours playing like chami remix. Is he just coming out with stuff. Like cool chiller. How stuff in the second half. I played like you know like like tonight. Records in like higher ground like and it was like this is to steal really. I didn't know it was like lido songs. It wasn't even that crazy but it's still just you know i was like holy shit on a massive sound system and it was like shattering basis. I gotta play more house music. But really i was only. I'm in an n. One time when the first ira plated vegas too. I was like i just was like i don't even know a whole nother world man. So yes like was opening to for slander. Who is opening for adventure club or something bad. And i was playing like chile possible house music and i think it was just like that new. A new club promoter guy also had no idea what he was doing is like your we had. It's gotta be more high top forty stuff here. Yeah yeah that's always trouble where it's like. That's not what. I do buddy man. Well all right a couple more questions. We'll we'll take some questions from audience. We'll get you out of here. But i wanted to make sure we came back two seconds to talk about tony. Hawke who you mentioned at the start of all of this. You did this crazy. Livestream with tony hawk and a bunch of skaters and and you're the one who kind of with that together at or at least you were one of the people involved in putting that together yet. It was basically It really huge shoutout in credit my boy. Elliot sloan He's the one who host to be event at his house. That skate ramp is literally at his house. San diego are vista and Yeah i mean it was. We became friends when go down in san diego. We randomly met one time and he. You know he's a pro skater and Wanna crazy amount of vaccines gold medals all this stuff and and we just became buddies in. He would come to my omnia shows and just one of the nicest most genuine news i've ever met in Just you know always have a blast hanging out in go to his house in. He kind of had the idea for for this type of thing. College wanted to do this at my house. They built this whole thing with the stage here in all his stuff. Like i mean this makes sense like would be sick to do it. And he's like yeah like i. Tony hawk is like my boy. Emmylou down the street and like buggy elastic in all these guys like i grew up. You know literally playing them as video. Game garrick george a skater or were you just playing the game. I mean i did a little bit. I had my face. But i was not like a proper skater but i certainly enjoyed lot went to the x. Games multiple times like as a young kid and loved watching extreme. Sports like was way into it and so i was like amazing like i would love to somehow figure out how we can you. Don't this happen and so you know. We kind of reached out production teams people and we're trying to figure out like okay. This is like not small operation. Like it's gonna cost to give money like i don't know where we're going to get it. You know we tried going to different sponsorships like rockstar. and all these different people and eventually Yeah mentally insomniac. Like pass wall coward of it and we were like hey geeta heswall like people who do their productions like you into it and yeah wall like way into it. They've been you know kind of like looking at like doing stuff with x. games anyway recently. Like you know just trying to find events and south and so he really loved the idea us put it together and like insomniacs just crushed it like literally. They came in took everything over. Just did it all and yeah it was like i kind of just like thank. You probably making south. But yeah came out as a nightmare. Elliot sloan and elliott provided the venue. He knew all skaters message. Everybody and like everybody there and like Yeah big grand you know. I got some meat. Phil super nice dude and like You know just. I was very very appreciable supercooled me him and like you know you literally rolled up like by himself just had little johnsboro backpack a brand new pair of and put them on. Just script is set to exactly what you want. That's so that's so glad. I mean you know you to talk about the the marriage of like music and gaming or music and virtual reality any of that. I mean tony. Hawk pro skater. Like i think the music was as important as the. Am cody just hits. I feel like you definitely played a part in creating the playlist which was cool. He's another one where you can tell he just gets it you know it's he understands what's cool even as a you know. I don't even know how old he is now but yeah for sure he gets in. I mean yeah. It was nice. I mean he came into and then you know it was like oh how much you again pay like. Cool just donate everything to whatever is like great. Just super nice guy you know donated to escape foundation screening That's fantastic man. I think we somebody in the chat said they. They were actually one of the people who helped film it. So you get some some crew in the chad crew. Like out to everyone who made it happen because it was like literally a front of house level size production like elvis festival like people doing lights in visuals and setting up the stage and you know there's two there's like a section of cd's hours literally dj on like a like. What are they called. Is like crazy forklifts but i know what you're talking about yet scissor l'est thing Yeah yeah yeah. Yeah yeah. I would like the whole time to. I was just like i mean it was it was it was a it was a production. Did a great job was just grateful to be part of it for sure. I was really cool. Yeah man that's great. Well let's i. I'm going to pull up the questions. People have been submitting here and I'm just gonna throw throw a couple of a match. You let me see what we got going on here. Yeah okay these are. These are actually some good questions. Nice nice work. Chat zac from seattle shout fino. Who i think is just about to get on a plan but he. He asked the question that i was actually thinking about two and he says your music is often very cinematic which is a word i always think about when i think about your music Have you done. Tv or movies scoring work. So tiny bit not really much I do love the idea of it. I think eventually i will score like some type of thing I i wrote like a pretty cool orchestral piece for my intro for the album and then actually funny thing the people who were in this bill thing essentially before we moved in here. Where like movie trailers scoring people as roma's super nice people and so originally. I met up with them like five years ago. Came here and like you know. Show them some cool stuff. We worked on some trailers together. And then this for the album. I i wrote like a piano and string peace and all that kind of stuff in broad is one of those guys was like. Can you help me turn this into like movie trailers status like epic nece. And so he did that. So the intro. The albums like this ridiculous movie scores status piece. So i'm really excited for that. That was the closest thing. I've done But other than that. I've actually. I've been working on like my brother i was saying does. Tv stuff so he's been producing does a lot of commercials you know And things like that and We've been working on a tv show also for like literally years now and is finally coming to life. Hopefully at the end of this year Probably early next year. We're gonna start filming it. That's you know what the twenty man is. I was listening back to our first podcast that we did three years ago and you were in high knew it. Well just a little bit. I don't think you would actually started working on it. But i think you had said something like yeah my brother. Has this idea for a travel show. But i want it to be made this way and i don't know if you'd even talk to. It's finally like we. I mean it's been three years slowly developing this. Joe and and editing trailer teaser. Type thing we've partnered with This company three ball to pitch the show to people we like pitched it all spur like a year and then somehow during cove lead like we got a lead like amazing. I don't even know if i'm allowed to talk with these major networks streaming service. That's coming to every tv ever and So yeah we got a really awesome budget approved and stuff in the thing is that is a movie music travel by senate around these super cool unique experiences that you would. Otherwise never get unless you. A touring artists patti. You know it's like i just went to ethiopia like you said or not whatever someone ask our eastern europe burr it Wherever and i played a show. And now i have read as off. There's this local host homey who's gonna take me around all these different things that sounds great And so cool. Yeah it's like almost like a that's delicious. i don't think you ever well. Yes action bronson slightly more formal than that huge next bronson. He's of my favorite. And but yeah. He really inspired by that and obviously no reservations. Very inspired kneeboard dane. Like just you know someone who is out there experiencing a thing. It's kind of somewhere in between those and you know it's chose to be kind of this raw like very you know organic kind of like filming style but yeah we're really excited but scheduling has been a bitch because every thing on earth has been canceled entity international show. We had no we had no. The plan was to do knows dates or cities or shows or episodes in the states. Now we're like get amsterdam getting cancelled during getting his and all this stuff. So we're thinking it'll probably being so next year and then i'll be able to talk about it and announce it and all that stuff like maybe next summer crazy. How long these kind of projects take man. It's insane like i mean i. Yeah it's cool but it's awesome. I mean if it works out get to be an executive producer on his tv show and even just on the progress of this. I've already started like helping produce. I a couple of documentaries and things like gasoline cruel like handed like movies. Yeah yeah i mean. That'll you know if you haven't done it already. That'll probably give you plenty of scoring opportunities right exactly. That was kind of where i was going. That is like. I really hope to be scoring a little bit for this. Tv show that you know. We're producing part of it part of almost pitching it to people as like. Hey like by the way. I along with the show i can help make your original content nixon tonight make some music because a lot of times. It's like an annoying thing like for people who are making tv shows like oh god we need like hundreds of thousands of dollars to budget for licensing music and like if they can not have to deal with that. Like you know can help you know for us. We're only doing six episodes like her. So you know so far. So it's like. I don't know i mean it's still like in the in the development stages even is not even fully like confirmed yet. But we're still you know it's been. It's been a superfund product to work on an. Yeah no come together Yeah i i'm excited for all that man. It's so cool. I like literally just hurt us three years ago talking about that idea. Some really glad. It's coming to fruition finney. I'll send you the trailer. Hyun watch lee is. I would love that man that would be great All right so. Aj from chicago asks this kind of a wide open question. But and i'm sure. I think we've talked about some of it but he asked What is still on the bucket list for nightmare. And i guess i would sort of make that a little more specific into say like what are your goals right now. What are you excited about. Obviously we talked about the album. We talked about the tv show. Is there anything anything you haven't done yet. That is one of those things like. Oh man i really wanna do that. One day I mean i think for me is just travelling in like spending a bit more time exploring like you know getting like to go to these really exotic places a lot of times for a day or two days like really wets my appetite to like be traveling and exploring and like going. Southeast asia likes spending two weeks not like planning what i'm doing just like experiencing it exploring and doing all that kind of stuff and you know i just books this show in alaska next month. Yes samuel asked right now. Like i'm gonna go. Hi go there. Like i really really really thoroughly like have been enjoying hiking and being outdoors and like Backpacking even like overnight. You know kind of stuff recently so you know i definitely. I have some like very epic long hikes on my on my bucket list like pacific crest trail type stuff for like john Type stuff you know i. I don't think i'll ever be doing the entire thing for like half a year. Whatever it takes. But i still wanna do so mike hundred miles segment answer things like that. And yeah. I mean that's you know an eventual goal. I i definitely am not there yet but I really really really enjoyed that type of stuff. And i think just getting as many countries as possible immunity and I think honestly think alaska's last last state than it needs to go to may south dakota. I've never been to yet okay. Where are you going to anchorage the anchor. nice man. yeah. My dad's side of the family was from alaska. And so i went up there a bunch as a kid but i haven't been back as an adult but my memories of him as just so beautiful. Yeah i mean. I'm playing on a friday and have nothing sunday through thursday so in my plan is to go really like this you know did go to denali national park and do some hiking out there the fantastic and as much as possible i feel like the the chaos of like making all the time touring and stuff like i just have to have that like pure silence and like drinking glacier water ground turn absolutely bad. Yeah that's real balanced right. There blake from new. Jersey is a good question. Because i wanted to talk just for a second. Just dropped a new song with young pinch. And we've talked a bunch about you know how you approach hip hop Labs he wants to know if in the next phase of what you're doing you're going to be doing as many hip hop ca labs and if there's anything else you can talk about in that regard Yeah i mean. I think Actually the next single that. I have coming out that. I just am literally finishing up right now. Submitting the masters Is with smoke purpose. We did a song on that we've had done for a little while And it's cool as suber hype. It's like on some mosh pit kind of energy levels. Yep on but it is a hip hop record. Only i and i'm gonna do vip same kind of thing that i've been doing For the album. I just have one just for song is a hip hop another one. That's like way more chills. Not like super high papa but It's very cool. It's kind of indie rock vibe. But yeah that's that's one. I was like saying i'm still of working on the feature. Honestly most of the album stuff is not hip hop stuff. And i have like i kind of in my mind. Have this separated of leg. Four or five song. Ep's worth of melodic music in four or five song ep or the bangers that like so nice industry people like song with like revolt in zomba in death in a couple of these other Awesome based Kind of like four or five songs. That i'm really excited about better bangor's More like heavier stuff for five songs. That are melodic that i'm excited about. And then the whole album trying to like put it all out I feel like maybe it's not quite as much as before I definitely have been kinda just falling back into like. What do i wanna make today. Like make a random nightmare e sounding chords. In drought i man. I think that is good. I love it a lot. Yeah you gotta get back every once in a while. I think anyone doing anything creative. You gotta get back to that. Just how that's how it started right like when you started being nightmares like well. What do i wanna make. Yeah totally back. I mean the the fear and love likes on the album of those two separate songs like they feel like the most nightmare stuff that i made in a long time. It feels very like it would have been on the first nightmare ep. But it's like a super high supercharged version of that. I love hearing that man. Yeah i'm stoked to check all of that out Are real quick. Jared for minnesota is a good question. Because i try to end usually dispensing a little wisdom dispensing a little knowledge He's asking about When you're at icon learning production their meeting some people who would go on to be your friends kind of for life in this industry. And he's asking. Do you think that's still a good way for starting producers to go right now and kinda you know he's asking the the usual question of like what's the best way to sort of meet people who have these interests if this in industry you wanna get into. Yeah i mean. I think I think whenever i get the eggs on question to i of boys preface it with like so much of it has changed the experience of icon And the price of icon and like all these things that you know to each individual person. Obviously they have a different scenario. So it doesn't necessarily apply to everyone buck for me. My experience at icon like i learned. I learned so much from the school and a curriculum but realistically most of the benefit that i got was from the people yup being there and you know even like just like i learned a ton from my friends. But i also learned a ton from the people in my class even if it was just like you know whatever. Check out this cool standby found in them showing the air check. Here's like us shang samples together in that building. My library up like just having being the studio and just sitting there having somewhere you can go sit all day and there's people working on music ground you all the time and i think the other thing that helped me do is like when i moved to la. I lived with houses five guys and we all were doing the same thing too so being around all the time like even you know you come home from like working on music and three people sit on your couch working on music and it made me wanna work on music all the time which was good. I think you know for someone who's getting into it. Like focusing on just working through volume of shit of Music in whatever it is. You're working on just doing more of it. All the time is really how you're gonna make the most progress in the music in in getting to the point where you're happy with how you music sounds like there's only so much networking in going to shows and things like that that will benefit u Realistically in the end is the music. That's gonna set you apart and do all these things for you so You know. I think some people who like you know maybe don't have a great financial situation campaign for it or can't live out there. Find a job. Right now obviously. Kobe changed everything for everyone. But you know. I don't think that like mentoring would be a bad idea or like finding someone you know. you know who can kind of help you work through your questions that you just don't know the answer to because that was the issue for me like a lot of what i got. I've icon was the mentor session. Once a week you go in and the of someone who's just sitting there and it's like okay. What do you want to do her on your dislike hours like go through every single audio effect in. Show me what this one doesn't show me what this one does. And show me where you like to use it in what everybody does on this. Everybody listeners like you can always read the manual but when you literally go and do it and have someone being like yes. That's the correct answer. That definitely looking for rather than i think. This is the right answer on youtube and stuff like that. It just makes things a lot easier and you know in the meantime view working through volume of work in creating songs in just doing new stuff all the time Rather than you know spending six weeks on one song trying to get every detail of it perfect so you can try to figure out a marketing. Do all the stuff. It's like all right up views. Be working until you have ten fifteen songs that you love and that are amazing that you feel really confident with and then you know then you can start. You know maybe trying to reach out to manage banner sharing it with people who you think might help put you on or whatever i mean. You're spot on first of all that. It's the work that you comes before anything right like. There's no whether you go to icon. You don't go dicon whether you're in l. A. or not. It doesn't matter if you're not working really hard we're like that's yeah that is many lampkin Went icon and didn't do as much work as i should ever. Didn't you know been time. Whatever in end there's people who did and still didn't succeed timing a lot of it's you know it. That's that's the thing has south and when you go to icon like their interview process. They're like hey if you're doing you know fifteen years from now if you have those exist like are you going to be making music still or you're going gonna go to other shit and it's like they want people were like i wanna do music for the rest of my life. Yeah so it's like if you're looking at it like that and you're looking at it like not comparing yourself to other people and just as long as you're making progress forward like yeah man and if you like you said if icons not in the cards if if you don't have some kind of physical community like you know just be resourceful. There's online communities read. It's discords all that kind of stuff. Like people are out there but you just gotta have something to offer. And that's where the work comes in san yep and don't rely too much another people like taking your shit big may is right. There feel like the like using online resources in all those things can be super helpful but can also be like he. I don't know you can just sharing it with a group of people or something. You're really excited about it. And no one in there is paying attention Whatever in like you know. It's just. I don't know can kind of it. It's very easy to get in your own head again. Like i was saying comparing yourself to other people or listening to someone's feedback when it's just an opinion about your song and like realistically you know. People can give good critical like mixing feedback for on occasion and stuff like that but even like mixes nowadays on like. I don't know man like does it. Sound good to you like sweet joe russell Rank you know what i mean. It's like ears. yeah. I mean that's that's almost like it's super hard when you're just starting off to have that perspective right because i think now that you just said that i'm realizing i think that's part of artistic maturity is like a. I think i have less ego. So i'm more open to other people's comments but at the same time i'm also much more ready to throw all those comments in the garbage if they don't really help me out where if they no sense to me you know one hundred percent i yeah. Yeah if you're getting caught up with like our is trying to describe to you. It's like you know sometimes it's just law like you know it's too gloomy years musical but some you know sometimes it's just like i don't really you know someone doesn't like it it's like what do you mean like. You can't worry about worry about that. Yep no you get if you like it. That's the only i think. That's maybe the if we summit up in in one sentence it's if you like don't let anybody else tell you differently. Yeah well it's been. It's been great talking to you dude. It's i'm really glad to catch up. I can't believe it's been three years since we did this last. I know let's not do another three years. I know man like yeah. Absolutely whether it's podcasts are not man. I i really hope to run you soon. Let's let's get some lunch dinner something on your percent. I'm extremely down. Yeah let's do a man. Well thank you so much for taking the time i know we. We ran a little long. So i appreciate it. I'm chilling today. So good gator. What's what are you doing for the rest of the day. You megan tunes. Yeah i literally these this smoke per masters do tonight so this idea worked on it this morning in this is my ear resting time and i'm gonna realistic and either be like. Oh this is terrible back to the deadline grind man and way man you you look great. You sound great. It's it's great man. The man thank you. I appreciate your having me on all is always a good time. Always appreciate good interview questions. Head is the worst when easiest. Someone's just like duran yet. You're the best do so man means so much man. Thank you and to to be honest with you. The lake city getting shitty questions and being annoyed with them is literally why i started this. I can't man buddy love you. Great to see you man. I'll talk to you. These better had batman.

Willie joy europe willie joy Toback lawrence kansas tony hawk lincoln twitter Lesko poland estonia willie Mike germany Orioles san diego vegas
223: Clayton Blaha (Audius, co-founder of OWSLA)

Back To Back

1:43:00 hr | Last month

223: Clayton Blaha (Audius, co-founder of OWSLA)

"This is back what backbackers this is. Willie joy welcome to the show. This is back to back. This is my podcast. How are you how you doing how you feel and it's nice to be back with you nice to get that little little jolt of human connection that I get to have with everyone here every week. You know we go down plenty of rabbit holes on this podcast. And sometimes maybe the point gets muddled. But we're here because we're trying to get to the bottom of this thing we all love and man. I'm glad to be on this journey with all of you this week. We've got a great episode. Speaking of people who are just trying to figure it out. I've got clayton blah on the show. Clinton blah was one of the co founders of hausler records currently the head of artists relations and partnerships over at audience. If you listen to this podcast in the last year you've probably heard audience come up. You know the exciting new music platform. They just say a benchmark of over five million monthly active users which is huge. There's a ton of big names involved on the platform already. And i'm going to put a link in the description of this episode where you can go check out audio. See what they're all about. And maybe you too can go get involved clayton. I recorded this conversation. Live on twitch which If you haven't checked in with the podcast in a while. I am recording. All these episodes live in front of your eyes these days. So in the description of this episode. You're gonna find another link to my twitch channel. Go follow me there. So you'll get notified every time i go live. I'm doing a podcast a week. Sometimes two on there i'm doing. Dj sets I'm doing a stream on fridays. With one of my best friends who happens to be an incredible comedian. We are listening to your demos to your whips. If you are a music producer you can comes submit music on my discord and we will listen to it. Live on stream every single friday. The show is called. Do it bang. So i always get asked you know. How can i get people to listen to my stuff. How can i get feedback. We're here every single friday. So come send me your music. I'd love to hear it. We will address any concerns. You have and Just in general it is such a fun time. Those friday streams so look. There's a lot going on on my twitch channel y'all so throw me the follow their. It's twitch dot tv slash. willie joy. Come through when. I'm recording these podcasts. Ask questions to your favorite artists. And i will force them to answer your questions. No look it's a blast. And i'm really having a great time Recording these podcasts. With all of you guys sitting in the room sitting in the chat and and we're all doing it together so that's all i got to say about that. Today is all about clayton though clayton blah a i knew him when first moved to chicago those days he was working for three one of the premier publicity companies in the country and clayton has really done it all from pr publicity to running label witthaus la to artist management he. He's managed artists all over the spectrum. Genre wise you'll hear him talk about A singer named matt mason who is currently managing. And of course his current position over at audience as well as a whole bunch of other activities clayton. Clayton's always working on something and it was a really fascinating chat. I'm really glad we got to catch up. Been awhile It had really been a while. And i think for you the listener There's a lot to pick out of this because clayton. He's he's somebody behind the scenes but The work he's doing has giant giant implications For the industry for artists for really anyone who who loves music and loves what we all do which is extensively. Why we're all here in why you're listening to me. Talk right now. So i really think you're going to enjoy this episode. I really did. Clayton is the best. If you do enjoy it. I would love to hear from you. You can always hit me up on social media at willie joy at back to back pod and if you would like to support this show the best way to show that support well first of all. It's it's coming through following me on twitch and hanging out as i do. These shows live in front of your eyes but another great way to support back to back to support. What i'm doing over here is just a spread. The word word of mouth really is still at four and a half years in it. Still how this show grows. The formula has not changed and I owe a lot of the success of this show to you the support of this amazing community to your support so Anytime you're tagging us in your stories anytime you're putting up a tweet letting people know they should listen anytime. You're telling your friends to check it out recommending favourite episode telling one of your favorite artists. They should come on the show. All of that goes into making making this show what it is and i appreciate each and every one of you You guys are the best. The back-to-back community is the best. And i will go to my grave saying that so look with all of that in mind. Let's get into today's episode This is a good one guys. Get ready this is me and clayton blah back-to-back back lesko through Yes yes it's great man. Great at all i mean. It's funny because i saw just from social media that you've been in mexico for a while. And i think when we when i first emt a month ago or so you were in new york where you are now. Are you based anywhere right now. Like do you have a home. Currently i have been i've been professionally house sitting for the last three months which has been very situation like Remigino now Independent l. a.'s employees anyway When got kicked off and then Everyone's in san francisco. And then so i got used to work from home pretty early and then like after. Obviously we all went into lockdown. We've found that we are just so much more productive remote more more better work life balance if you're able to leave the house And just generally like we're so instinctive and we're at rid pretty tightening or really small still Which is also blessing. It'd be able to do this much. Lake under twenty people. I didn't know it was under twenty people not anymore. I mean it's frightening. It's twenty one as of today. We're constantly hiring but for a majority of the pan-demic are really a very small team ended them. Yeah i kinda just looked at l. a. I don't like this and then it was a and everything started to open back up. I was like mexico Opening back up two hundred. It looks like everything's gonna be fine daddy and then it just didn't end. I didn't wanna traveling back and forth So i just stayed there for your. But i could conceivably live any runner but being that i'm in relationships and communications game time zones of make a tenuous know so i'd like to maintain some sort of semblance of your sanity so probably stick the american time zones but Yeah conceivably could could dip I mean are you. Are you comfortable on the move like that. Just in general. Because i know you you've lived a whole bunch of different places in your life and we'll get into all of that but like even even just now like if i put myself in your shoes in that position like not having not knowing where i was gonna live that would stress me out personally. Yeah it it. It was fun at first And like you mentioned i've I am from boise. Idaho but like i've lived in san francisco chicago los angeles It's all the time in europe so used to not. I enjoy it i but now i'm to the point personally. Almost thirty six years old. You know like if i'm going to if i'm going to have a idyllic american life. It's time to start taking that seriously. It is stressful for sure. And i'm kind of at the point. Which i really want to like. Have i really even though i will do. Many cities when i go to the cities i really like establishing like my team Like my barber taylor. Like the barista like i like having all of those things and you can get yoon establish pretty quickly but his link. I like having neighbors having community. It's possible digitally but it's not necessarily the same looking forward to like settling in a little bit. Yeah i mean it's it's for me man. It's funny because what you're saying you know on this podcast. I talked to plenty of producers and dita's and that sort of thing and it's the same thing for people who live that tour life on the road all the time. What you said is exactly what they said. It's like well every city you know i gotta have my. I got my coffee spot. I got the restaurant i go to dinner at. And it's funny. How when you sort of jump into like these romantic thing. At least for me. When i was a kid that seemed like a romantic idea of like you just always on the move a different city every night. But then when you break down when you're actually doing that life it's like oh no i kind of just wanna like do the same thing. I did last time when i was here. And i think maybe notoriously like for somebody who's been around so many musicians for so long have played. You know three hundred shows a year. In some cases. I never went onto and i will never go onto. I don't enjoy the idea. Touring and i kind of went onto her accident recently. Like you know it was. It was never my intention. I wanted to stay pretty remote. Pretty like the staff someplace but it didn't really out Into again i'm over. But at least i got my system and i do think that i mean amazing. Friends amazing friends in every city. In which make it easier leave bread. Yeah that's that's fair i mean. Did you move. Move around a lot as a kid like. When did this. This wanderlust things start happening. I didn't actually I always knew. I've always wanted to live in new york since i was obsessed with ninja. Turtles my parents. Tell me a story when i was a little kid. I would talk about living in the city. Because i was a really little as morning arizona than i lived in the central coast california until i was like seven in when i was a really little kid. I was like super super fascinated by graffiti by what was happening in los angeles. Like might release musical. Memories are of listening to dog washing videos. How was that reaching you out of curiosity was it just on. Tv was friends and he'd be my parents me watching tv which was pretty formative decision for them and the radio. But yeah i. I remember the rodney king. Riots like distinctly remember being really really upset about it when i was a little kid and i was always fascinated by the city but then we might have are the exact opposite of love. It was up to them. They would live on my mom. But when i was doing they had very very real ambitions of living on farm like they were very rurally minded inter they moved. We're going to move. Data have one way or the other because my parents had like friends and family there And they wanted to live like way out in the country and upon hearing that like burst into tears. And so they settled on boise idaho which is a small city but A sitting on the less like a good compromise. i'm in it's definitely Still far vibes in boise. I feel like for sure. I mean it's definitely like outdoorsy for sure Luckily they had one of the. I mean not. I wouldn't say one of the. I got probably one of the first gate park's outside of california that anybody like took seriously capacity league is actually a really well thought out while landscape art pretty much Saved my life on. If it wasn't for seaboard in my friends there and spending time there when i was a little kid I probably have a lot more trouble than i got into which was a considerable amount of trouble anyway but like i mean skateboarding for me was the only thing. The skateboarding is how he really got into music. In how i kind of again like explore the idea of working music professionally and then also like you know. The earliest days of music tech Was just kind of fell into my lap. Early that was really like held by Also magical over his On this is so funny that your lives during me still loves this. Yeah i mean the team has happened with musicians in the pandemic with twitches one of the more it gives me a little bit of hope for the future of the industry. I mean you want to talk about community like you brought. You brought up the word community earlier. It's it's wild to me. How quickly a very big community grew around this in the pandemic. Yeah it's been it's been so crazy Cool like also like we identified it like in in terms of audience. The team kind of zoomed out a little bit as soon as we went into lockdown I mean i'm always obviously having but he became really evident that there is like this new artists toolkit kind of developing and We really double down on some features like the remix contest stem hosting and remix things like that To kind of help fill in the gaps of where this online creation and you know Community stuff was going. It's been really it was. It was a really really beneficial decision for us. But yeah it's been so who is also the proliferation of discord is fucking crazy. Like yup either. Now there's coal companies running off toward instead of slack. Which is i think if you explain that to somebody in a game chair Fucking four nine. Two years ago. They'd never believing a bit. Yeah it is cool to see mad. I mean i. I wonder you know where my mind always goes with. That is like well now that that's happening like does that signal the beginning of the end for whatever this phase dischord gonna get acquired by you know microsoft whoever's going to try to buy and where we can have to go next maybe it'll be salesforce microsoft who used the help in terms of the like productivity tools Views microsoft teams before but it's absolutely Yeah luckily i don't have to. But i am very close to people who have to use it daily and yet it's not not a hit not not a hit at all but yemen. Let's let's bounce around a little bit because you were talking about skating. And i wanted to go back to that for a second and you were talking about how that kind of changed the direction of your life and i. It's interesting to me. And i'm sure you've had this experience to how many people in the music industry i talked to especially the dance music industry where we're skateboarding was such. A huge factor. In in i don't know their their worldview their perspective their creativity. Whatever it is. I was talking to. I was talking to busy p on this podcast a few weeks ago. And he i. I wasn't even expecting it. But like he was almost like a real. He was talking about his religion. You know when he was talking about skateboarding like what are you. What is that connection. Have you ever thought about like why. There's such a strong correlation not. I haven't really thought about in reference to dance music in general or just like i don't know like i also find the same the same thing in a lot of creative industries and i think it's easy to look at you know skateboarding the olympics and being like. Oh it's a sport. Like i think a lot of people's association with Morning now is like and it wasn't one point eighties and nineties to it was it was kind of there's a real shock mentality around it But what happened with street. Skateboarding was essentially like taking this thing. That exists whether it be a set of stairs or a curb in front of your house or your garage driveway. Which was the case for me. without knowing it like you're trying to have fun trying to impress your friends or whatever but you end up looking at things with a certain creative i. It's reinterpreting your surroundings. And like i have a really host friend who's married to a very avid skateboarder. And she's a city. Planner background is in city. Planning and he's Obviously into skateboarding. And it's shooting some very disparate. But it's one of the great commonalities But yeah like a like. When i was really young. I was really into drawing. My mom is a painter and creative. raise me with both. My parents are small business owners. You this graphic design company. So she was really really creatively oriented. I was really pushing it that early on but i think that energy manifested itself in skateboarding more so than anything else gotta own every instrument. I wanted to trumpet a drum set bass. Electric guitar melodic any anything that i could use to try to make music like i failed at desperately and for whatever reason like i. Yeah i think my mind was more oriented like seeing how i could take like some inanimate civic object. Wow sorry not because you up. I just wanted to say real quick. I like that idea of what you're talking about. This city planner in the skateboarder. Because that's that's almost like making music to where you know somebody can look at a city street and just see the city street. Maybe skateboarder looks at it and see know different places. They could like execute skateboarding right. And can you tell him not a skateboarder back. I guess to to bring them back to that. Like the only time. I really obsessively became began. Making music was after. I downloaded free loops and i would sample. Mp threes in the eventually. I finally saved up enough money to buy ten started flipping vinyl samples. And that's when i hit my stride. That's my like ultimately like really really crates really becoming obsessed with not only music music history like like kind of like the genealogy of of music in how ideas flow from one john and how these influence each other than how you can make something new out of that like i think that that obsessive lake kind of fascination was definitely With that second part of my mind that was it really became really into skateboarding. Very young lake. Yeah i mean. I think the that is very much like a lot of the dna music to yeah well. I mean talking about sampling in terms of skateboarding and in terms of history super interesting. I mean again coming from somebody. Who's not much of a skateboarder. Does that kind of sampling mentality existed skateboarding where somebody will try to flip like an old trick and yeah yeah especially right now because i mean it's a pretty simple machine. Four wheels wheel and axle a letter. So there's only so many things that can be done so just like with infatuation Certain things kind of cycling out of popularity read in specialist a great example of like aesthetic sampling. You know taking a Spreads neither candidate. Like if you've ever were spending amount of time with them like he's not so much of a creative as many as agriculture of fucking awesome ideas and like somebody that reinterprets listeners first album. It's all very very much sample based His early music. He's a reasonable is. That was the sampler that he made all of his early beads on right and look at what he's doing in fashion. Like or if you're in anyway like adjacent to his kind of process and same with same with virtually has this is a very very big proponent of the three percent role which is like take something that exists make it three percent different Yeah that that's all. The school is sampling essentially. Yeah no absolutely. That's i talk with people about that all the time because it so i think for any artist and you know i guess. I'm speaking mainly about music production. I think for any is. It's it's the idea of like. How do i find my voice. My signature sound my signature style. And when you're just starting off that seems like an impossible idea but when you break it down to like not just like do something slightly different than somebody else in t-ball and the greatest minds in creativity will tell you. I mean i think you're on one side of the fence there like i think it's impossible to divorce Like anything new from anything that's existed prior like you in let us you like literally live in a bubble Rather like you're born and raised in a tiny cabin in montana and never had the internet especially now that influence is going to Kind of how. Do i wanna say those influences will be pervasively like manifested in in whatever. You're doing whether you like it or not. It's some people refused. And yeah that's true and that's the difference. I don't know people that are honest with themselves and their fans like yeah. But i i think i think like i think that it's easy for fans to maybe like. Oh he's a biter things like that but those are typically people that have never tried to create anything And there's there's no shame in being influenced by somebody and being reverend other people's creations. Absolutely i mean i think cardi as a great example because he wears a lot of that on his slave. Do a random question. But i feel like you might have a good konya story. Did you ever end up near him. In some way. I have a pretty insane honey story. It's a long one but like what this show is. actually. I think i'm under nda. Okay okay everybody. Everybody that is in his orbit is under the age. But i will say that Yeah i had somehow come under the impression that i knew anything about fashion through Told him something And i was working mentoring. A kid at the time of his twenty From north long beach. And he's he's one of those fantastic talented created. People i've ever met in my life. He's just so like terms like those interpreting those inputs like putting out something new. He's just handling his name's dongguan over He works kenny. Beats actually a lot young. But i was working with him on a clothing line. That was all he was doing. Nothing except for just helping trying to get on people and we had some some solid solid. A beaver was filmed Photograph wearing stuff at one point but anyway yeah so. I was tasked with getting connie like guinea late. Something happened with with thousands. we're doing a video premiere at the ace hotel downtown and i was talking to my friend. Who's working with the at the time and he was like a young thing like you're going to be there and i was like cool. I don't really believe you. But and so it was like a called domino's like oh you should come to this thing. Where all of your own clothing case dom sat down next to me. The guy in front of turnaround in wisconsin. And it was like i everything you're wearing and dom basically had to remove himself a situation because he was like so like louis overwhelmed and a couple of days later we both got the call. dumb drove out. He was some calabasas to work on. the same To emerge and i went on his At noon and essentially spent the entire day with him until about four him at four hours ago will flight at five. And he's like yeah. I mean like driving to the airport and it was like And so we don't driving a two thousand chevy at the ten minutes and you'll out to my car and this is what i was doing a lot of consulting so i was like literally my car like in meetings meetings today for like a two years and i never really left my car so like there's takeout boxes water models water also up to the the passenger seat so actually passing and he opens opens at the passenger side door and Dump on his driveway in bel air incheon and he starts shoveling them in the back and the most i think he literally said to me it looks. He's like this is the most he was like early. You can't live like this now. Literally the most embarrassing moment we fucking car driving. Lax irvine was like okay. Whatever his assistant calls me and she's like. I need your full name date of birth. I gave it to her and not having any idea what we're doing or where we're going and we pull into the urban airport. There's a jet there. I'm still like asking like where we going. And he's on the phone. Whomever likes just like talking to people trying to have this to her and We jet j.lo's boyfriend is there. I finally find out we're going to vegas. We get out getting a black are pull up to the back of the mgm grand in. We walk into the conor mcgregor in the man in mike. Tyson gordon ramsay when our seeds so you over. We watched the fight i went. We went back to the airport. I was in bed by midnight. And i've never heard from him since on his team since then bet as far it was the most bizarre twelve hours in my entire life so i won't share of the specific event. That is totally fine. That's an incredible story. i'm just go at. What point on the drive. Did you realize that you were gonna go. Get on the jet with him. I didn't really. I guess like Travel with a little bit again. Like i don't i try not to her So into these little vegas exertions number times so kind of click then but lake could tell me look like i have things to do like Obviously nothing that really trumping. The but at the same time is very nerve. Wracking going to fuck in vegas or wyoming for example like that's what the kids now they get on the jet. That's going to remain true. You haven't done of his thing like keeping young people around that the he pulls from. And i wasn't one of those people because i don't particularly creative but don got to do a lot of work on his on his line in that i think that That was a big a big moment for him. he's now professional creative director. I mean it's really interesting to me that you say you don't consider yourself that creative because i feel like almost everything i know about. You has been some wildly creative venture in one way or another. That you've had your hands said. Don't think i'm not creative. I think that like. I'm really really into problems. In creativity solves problems But i'm i. I like art but like what i really like it. Systems get excited by the idea of like a reorienting. You know multi-billion dollar industries towards Towards like equitability in fairness Not say that the work. I did in my career. Thus far has really ladder up to that but like that's ambition you know. Yeah so has that always been your ambition like when did you start thinking about it in those terms so i was managing this kid. Boogie boogie at the time Rapper from compton is amazing. So talented And he was signed to interscope and getting a lot of like arguments with them about the way the retreating him about ways that we disagreed and i kind of step back and was like yo like this is not the problem. His boss is not the problem like these people are doing what they consider good work and it's worth the benefits individuals. But i was like. How do i i was really kinda step back because it was like an hour of my time is helping to people right now. Maybe through the best case narrow. How do you kind of step back in scale that and like how does our my time become net beneficial for entire communities people. And how do you get. How how you help people scale. And that's kind of when. I was like okay like it's not like even these labels are in our basically at odds with other multibillion companies that are trying to basically centralize all of the power in the control with the music industry to these platforms. You can say that as much with instagram in terms of our attention. Which if you think about it as a commodity is like probably about commodity union world. Facebook is literally trying to have a monopoly on attention and wants the monopoly owners And that's evidenced by the fact that like their total addressable market is not is not people who like music people who hack who literally can hear and that's evidenced by the fact that like musicians made spotify you billion dollar company probably much higher value now. Yeah and then they turn around and they give one hundred million dollars to joe rogan. Who's not a musician. Yup that's indicative leg. How much control they want over us just generally and so like i said back from that I kind of had that of his knee in like twenty seventeen really fucking overwhelming just. Like i don't do this anymore. Like and then Somebody asked me to advise their start up. That was a ticketing company. Built on a theory. Him and i was like what is viriam. And then as i dug in more like whole shit like this is this is the scratch that you need to start from to be able to really redesigned Entire like systems like that Not even like. I don't use the term disrupt. I don't necessarily like the turn. Disrupt disruption is kind of various in often associated with companies. That don't give a fuck about people. Yeah but i think that it's new starting point like decentralized A decent tries financial system is a new starting point on which to build. Decentralized companies that are inevitably more fair in by the the worker -ticipant so without getting on a full marxist. Tear like we can go there. Baby you don't we don't want to go there because there's always somebody that it has more ninety. Apparently yup you know systems of disenfranchisement systems of extracting value from from workers. I don't have any interest in Y'all can do that I think the best defense is good. Offense and that is building alternatives and messaging but those alternatives in telling people about them and describing to just about everybody just about everybody benefits from these including major league goals. And i i am really bullish on the fact that major labels will stand to me i. I don't think meter labels are bad. If i think that if anybody wanted to explicitly become rich They would get into finance. I probably should have likely. They're way more evil things you can do than working major label if you literally sociopath with no regard for human involvement i i do. Think everybody in the music Literally largely at least everybody in the music industry gets in because they want to help people they enjoy storytelling. They want to be a part of the iteration of the human experience through music. The problem is that there's not alternatives functional alternatives to be able to do so outside of that system. But i think there's l- large frameworks and people in incisions. If you know given a plainfield everybody's happier would take alternatives. He yeah absolutely. I mean it's kind of one of those. If you build it they will come situations. I think because especially for the major labels i mean they never want to change. They're not gonna do it By the nature of their goodwill. But in we can't because they're literally there there's no alternative The red the hells bay. Pay was good intentions. And i i do spotify health for musicians man. that's a that's a banger of a quote. Right there. I mean it's funny men because it it's it's crazy when you think about. I'm not really saying anything that hasn't been said before. But thinking about the idea of spotify on not just the way we consume music but also the way we create music right where all the sudden like the way people wrote songs changed so that it would fit the platform. Better that is a scary. Thought is extremely scary. I mean i think if you look back on it like it's it's it's really acutely evident to like i don't think we get an nwea in two hundred twenty one. And i not to say that the former you know Permutation necessarily not a Disadvantageous to musicians but like at least there was like people willing to try something because there were multiple avenues through which you could reach audiences you know like nutley like we look like Fat records or allowed records and stuff. These these companies had like you know. They're not designed for. Everybody likes them. Yes but those people that do like them will pay every time for the cd with that on whether they heard it or not because there's a culture cultural capital around that there's a sense of community there is a An alignment of ideas and ideals and things like that associated with those brands in those collectives of creatives. We don't have that anymore anything. That's what that's what that's one of the big great tragedies legal literally don't fucking matter in terms of brand capacity they just have to market because it's the only way they're going to make money but like there. There was a very like fat. Mike from note facts. The owner records is a very rich man. He's not a billionaire but like he's not wanting for anything you know what i'm saying like and that's the that's if you take that as like a microcosm of what's happening economically across across the us economy like there doesn't need to be billionaires literally does not help and frankly i don't think they need to be drinker taylor swift either like i think i'd rather have ten thousand drake's our ten thousand west westside boogies than one drake. Because in many countries you can pay you. The government subsidizes creatives. Because they understand that. It's a it's a quality of life It benefits the masses to have art in their lives. So it's subsidized Subsidized but it is. But that's even a better situation. We have in america. Were like being musician as a professional musician is not only a huge luxury. It's a fucking grind handy. If not like that much fun. I i still remember. The first time. I learned that canadian radio mandated by federal law. Had to play a certain amount of canadian artists bird day. Like hearing that. I that like just rearrange my bread because it was so foreign to me as an american musician to think that there would be any kind of support from larger systems for that same And so now. Like what is the alternative. If you wanna be on spotify bela's bank spotify music and that's really scary because like you know. Music is music. In many many people will Many people argue you that music predates the language in his like in many cases the most primal way of humans communicate and express ideas and many of those ideas are descended. And if we don't have that like we're losing major reader putting in terms of like humanity's capacity to change it for the better really scared. And i i don't think that there's anything necessarily wrong with spotify pipeline. I think that's great and it works really well for a lot of people like keep that going but it doesn't work for vast majority people are largely uncompensated for their tend to our. Yeah absolutely man. And it's i think this is a good way. I'm going to keep bouncing around a little bit here. I think there's a good way to talk about. How you you i sort of work intro to audience and how that relationship started but before we get there just because i feel like again this is maybe a good story talking about. Nwea and how they may be couldn't exist in 2021 spotify if they were new act I saw this is very. But i saw that. You once tweeted that you interviewed chuck d at an apple store and i feel like with. This story needs to be told at this time. Yeah like I mean that that goes back. Skateboarding lake. i left boise. Didn't go to college. I barely graduated high. school on. Boise is like is a little pocket of cities. Where like the most part sue break in in because of that I dunno like small city. Problems are very different than large city. Problems also have small city problems. But they're not without their problems. And in idaho oregon washington nevada all across the midwest to You know like a ohio specifically there was this the of the over your And a lot of my friends. I washed my didn't watch him but my first friend Overdose when i was fourteen and a lot of people were getting really really into drugs. Getting pregnant My parents were just kind of like your like you. Don't have to go to college. But you can't live here. And i highly suggest. You don't live in boise And so i was I san francisco is like the hub of skateboarding Winning and so i started applying to any label like all these labels like seattle portland san francisco Never actually been designed as the only reply back was from corn records. Put out a lotta my favorite Indie rap cds back then. Black label Dj shadow things. Yeah they were putting a ton of amazing. I was a big backpacker back in the day to your back and and so i went down to interview for the ship and it was like. Hey like just you know. I moved here for this internship. So you have to give it to me and like i was staying in a hostel. I got a job across the street at starbucks cleanable i'm needles and that image of going and then eventually like just started meeting people through skateboarding and Gives jobs music tech startup Where i like. It was a really Discovery algo days And i listen eight hours a day five days a week for two years. Look manually tagging rap songs like yeah misogynistic lyrics at high presence Symbols shakers ninety eight. pm a region tagging region. Now these only going through the dayton family catalogue known probably knows about but like their obscurely minister core drew. I got fucking encyclopedic like pretty quickly and one of the guys who work there that i skated with new people treasured and they. I is mentioned. I thought he did really poorly high school. But i did really really well in english my dad was a a writer. I always had books around his breeding like stephen king Second-grade grade was a great great great books to read. When you're in second grade oakland so somebody at thrasher was like hey like we're getting a lot of rap promos like i know the music you do some some interviews and started to him yeah. He interviewed a bunch of people And shut the from. Public enemy was one of them. But you can. He didn't want to leave that apple. So we just didn't even be there at so-called i interviewed remember like it was a lot of i still have some of the issues laying around but yeah i I hear viewed as opera in anyway. So like i was getting those those i was getting the press releases. Afforded to me from thrasher. Eventually he was just like. Let me put you in touch. With the publicist. So you can just feel these around up bears and then That's how i met. I came in touch with catholic Is three. I started covering artists refresher and then yeah and then i ended up through some crazy shit Moving to catherine's basement. I wanna talk about that a little detail. Just because i was in chicago at the same time and that that's when i became aware of you which i don't know i i don't actually. I don't think i've ever talked to you about this. But we have a mutual friend nicole. Who when you're moving to town. She like specifically approached me and it was like my friend clinton is moving to chicago. He doesn't know a lot of people here like will you. Can you guys be friends like will you. Would you know. Show them around. Or whatever. And i said i would. Then i didn't. And i was just i don't know i was like i know what was going on with me at the time but like i just never really made that connection with you then and later regretted it because i was like. Oh man like we got all the same friends and we're involved in similar shit like that would have been a good time. Yeah i was. I was so inundated with work. Lake catherine hired like i definitely lied on my resume that i was. I was a half li- like i managed abandoned san francisco. That was actually like this. The pet project of this vs of like this guy who is a super big tech dude. But he had a pr company in so i managed band in office hours from his pr office. But they didn't mobile tech yards like not anything like any new york Used him as a reference publicist and she was like okay and then i got. She was like you don't know anything. You're absolutely useless immunity. Now when the same move just like like inserted myself vocal. But you can't me and she literally tried to fire me. She tried to find me a lot. I mean i to this day. And i you know. I don't know her super well at all. Obviously i know you guys are very close but any time i've ever been around her like jesus has such a strong presence even though she's a sweetheart like i'm intimidated every time and back then. I mean she was trained meditation and life coaching now. I'm successful at that as well but back then she was less. Choose obviously a very sweet win but like her management style at the time was a little bit more brusque than it is now. I have a call tomorrow night. And for people who don't know i guess we should give context to so we're talking about biz three which is Just i don't know a legendary. Pr company based originally based out of chicago. And i mean back in that day. It's crazy to think back like how many big artists they were handling all running out of catherine's apartment right like again very you're talking about. How audience is a small team. Like biz three was wet like just a few people handling like global shit for giant artists by the in five years in the liver you rolling out the death penalty his name yet and and so like when i moved in i never been struggle. I didn't know anybody nicole. His intrigues me earns him cisco in. Yes she she. Thank god for her. I actually the other day. Because i was eating out with a friend that i mentioned go through the line. Honestly thank god. Because i didn't know anybody. Engineers opened up the address book. Rate chicago for a minute like in that period of your life because i think let's split it into two things like i want to know where you're at in life at that time and then i also wanna know Just in terms of publicity and pr. I think people don't really understand what that is or how that works or why artists need it and you know especially something like biz three which has been so influential as far as you know just giant artists now. The industry definitely personally. I was an absolute mess. Like atmos- My my just awesome. Dad i'd gone through a break up Pretty lost but like i knew that i was working industry Oh she gap and james. I like the first opportunity. Even la was sub optimal for her at the time and ultimately Who i feel like that was just hadn't But so but in terms of like publicity what i learned was i'm really good at it actually eventually Their processes around these things. Like you know you don't necessarily understand but like the core for me of being proposed as a marketer is run storytelling So like i again. There was racist breeder and marketing is just storytelling. I do consider. pr is a function. Marketing function is just story to tell the story. Why does matters like again. The human experience is what makes music grain. And i was really gonna because i understood i understood stories. I still think i do But like a. there's. I'm also extremely disorganized person. That's a big Sending you know fifteen thousand thirteen thousand emails a day and then field any replies like very difficult i open the nature of of these probably changed. I'm not. I don't have skin in the game anymore. But like i think it's become three social media a lot more personal for things Yeah a spray. I would assume and a lot more based on personal relationships in You know saying no a lot. I think is probably really important these days. Because there's so much forty thousand songs hit spotify everyday so like i think it will. Business done to really separate themselves in the marketplace is just very premium. Now like you know catherine does the weekend Like they've kind of you know carved out this for themselves where it's like if you are at that level. There's one person you talked to. Which abbas things that like you used to be able to get. Put us on soundcloud whether it be reading or whatever else and you'd have access to this huge like people be getting ticket Soft ticket shows offers overnight. Festival offers and stuff like that And because blogs there to support to add the context of the music and you get a bed that song in a story about how all this happened. I think that was like such a magical time. The music industry Era was so. I mean that was when you were making a lot of music to in chicago had this whole scene of people who are bubbling music. Soundcloud you've lost like all these other people in lake those would be seemingly disparate if you didn't have people after being like this is the thing that's happening right now and like this. Little scene is making music. It's reaching the globe was happening with philly with in with the rub or like the early season stuff in brooklyn magazines. Were having global impact and like taking that out of geographical location where everybody knows each other and starting to the world changed the the way the people listen to music which things the way people make music and choose way people think about their own lives in their capacity to have a career that is one of the great tragedies of the streaming are now is there is no context like there's no way of knowing like what's the difference between olivia ruggerio and somebody who made it better song than her or or made a worse song and has a crazy story that they're telling from personal place i think she's a phenomenal How it is probably about example. But how would we now. It makes me think about something you said earlier again. Which is finding community right like spotify is not a community whereas soundcloud was a community at a certain point exactly and that's absolutely To the yeah so you just be me to the punch by wanted to make that connection. Because when when audience i came out and when i first started learning about it and especially once you got on board because i knew you i was following what you were saying about. It was the first time where i really felt like. Well this the way this is being talked about. And the way this sounds reminds me of how soundcloud used to feel when i was coming up like is that is that a conversation. You've had internally as that is telling you guys think about oh yeah mean we literally want we just want to make sound good but good and i think we're on the way to do that But yeah like those micro communities like i get so excited like there's just helps a lot obviously like new features will help commenting groups things like that you know not on any of that but like ultimately the community wants to build it. That's the thing about is that there's this community listeners is community of creators and there's also which means developers build on top of this protocol and build things they wanna see an own government and that's where we become you know supercharge soundcloud words like we all own all have skin in the game But yet like like the things that excite me. The most is on a day to day like finding like this brazilian side trans community that has twenty artists. That are just making music. I don't fucking listen to they. It and like they're reaching people on the other side of the world and then all of a sudden brazil going to cyprian's capital of the world soon. Maybe comedian part of that. I hope like it's cool to see what's what's happening with japan terms consumption patterns music really crazy like they didn't really have really latched onto spot urges soundcloud like they still sell a lot of a lot of cd's Injured in and outside of that in the younger generation now is using. I think he's gone japan but like whatever you know. Dsp is. Mike is just jamming on down their faces and they never really had that soundcloud japan Point last year was Our second biggest streaming market seconds user. Now we're seeing latin america commodity because in many cases. I think what's going to happen with. Spotify is pretty interesting on on global scale. They wanna every year on earth like the commute economics. Don't really work out places that are still developing like like india. Mexico for example next city is the fastest growing music streaming market in the world Many of those people like this obstruction is kind of untenable in like also like reaching american audience. This is very difficult. So these these insular community exists. We just want to be like connective tissue between them and hopefully among themselves to like Ability to share music share stems. Have your home down the street. Remix in uploaded tag like. That is such an awesome feeling. Watch that happen. We're starting to see it's go hit so cool man and you know we've been dancing around this allowed. I think but to to make it explicit because a lot of producers and up and coming artists do listen to this podcast like for somebody who doesn't exactly know what audience is or why they should get involved with it as a creative like what's the what's the quick elevator pitch for it. The elevator pitches soundcloud. What is good or bad. It is a it's music streaming platform that is owned and operated by people Is is built on the theory of blockchain but people ninety percent of our users don't even know that It's just a place to upload music share higher quality audience. I'm three megabits per second. Always read upload unlimited uploads two hours of streaming signed. It is geared towards the people that listen to this Very much Musicians largely there are a lot of people on the platform. Now obviously scroll. Ix russ window like really really artists across the spectrum. That are that are into and it doesn't necessarily look. We don't really think of ourselves to being really explicit again as a competitor to spotify by. Do what you're doing on spotify but there's tons of things you're not gonna win flop just jamming of your profiling works progress flips. Things like that like like all these things like make creating us run of also a lot of times. The entry point guards jam like the way that people are exposed to Learning about how to make music. A lot of people are using scrat- In a way to build a community around these ideas. That's great. And yeah. And i think that we're gonna think i mentioned that reporting across five million monthly Tomorrow or today which will make us by many measures fastest growing music streaming platform in the world right now which is cool and yeah There is a lots going on so anybody who will listen. Just check it out on your stucco. Yeah absolutely. I mean it's crazy man doing this podcast talking to so many people over the last few years like a question. I ask allah We talk a lot about the gold era of soundcloud and that's how so many artists that we know came up and one question. I ask a lot of people. And i get the same answer every time. Is you know if you came up now. Do you think you could have done it in the same way. Do you think you'd be in the same position and almost everybody says there's no way because the with the climate the way it is yeah. I agree that there's no access point again. Forty thousand dollars a day. Like how do you cut through that. Maybe you head through with By being active audience discord maybe trade subjectively the Totally encourage a build. These little micro communities grow them out in residents and we've seen artists it's cool the only been around for twenty months. Maybe twenty one. There's people that started on can aren't our first ten thousand users that were making great music. That wasn't getting hurt on abound. Soundcloud were inspired by that now. They're getting label releases like they're putting out Amazing museum it's actually listened to other platforms because they have communities around. They built this This woman's due nami how she's incredible. She was just on the show such abnormal producer and she was one of our earliest users opponents all kinds of music and now i don't think she i think she's playing locally than Really really like taken off. I'm always in credit for that. But i would like to think that her experience at least helped build relationships that like you know have hopes kind of continuing to grow that. I wanna see that you know hundreds of thousands of nine times. Yeah i mean. It's so cool man. I think the difference. What when. I'm hearing you talk about this. I mean it's a it's a philosophical difference at the end of the day. Right where you're saying. Yeah do what you're doing on spotify like they're not our competitor. This is not what that's about. I mean to be so like i mentioned. This is a two part answer like. That's the easy answer is spot on his music streaming community the other answer. That's a little bit more technical a little bit more interesting to me is that audience is as a has the capacity to be a totally new music industry. Because the fact that we're decentralized everybody is getting a game healthy network behavior means that you can be a professional eurabia on audience. Point hopefully like right. Now there's people earning one hundred audio week security break leila's that's never been audio. Let's think about reverend of ownership of this platform audience the token nearly twenty bills blockchain Your earning stations that by making it better like isn't yet that is never exist on any other platform meetings soundcloud. Like i don't care. How many popping playlists you curate or You're never getting stock company. And so people you people like me people like all her friends made southbound eight hundred million dollar company they turn the guys that don't fucking serious pandora what we can't even use it for the purpose which is design thinking us off and we have no long-term upside like that's mentally fucked up. There haven't been alternatives relating. This technology is only really hit stride in the last four years. solich That's what i'm saying. I've found theory. Mom i was like holy shit. This is gonna be. The banks rallied. I with music's always ignoring coal. Mine likes you know without Early days of Appear you don't see we wouldn't have naps or in. Has the youtube run have. Yeah it's inter-. I mean just finding stuff like this. You know it's the theorem or whether it's you know these ideas of these alternate philosophies for these platforms like does it make you look back at anything you've done in your career differently like let's go back to our slick is. We haven't talked about that you know you're one of the cofounders of house. La does a theory of not existing audience not existing in those like what what would be different if that had existed when you were founding oslo. I can't even begin to think about it. I mean i don't think i don't really feel comfortable speculating because like i don't think that like whether it's democrats or individually. I think we have to stop you. Make those mistakes to be able to recalibrate and say like explore the alternatives. Talk with you there. Yeah anything existed then. It probably wouldn't Existed then yeah. Obviously i'd be huge proponent of it but at the same time like i think things that tipping point to be to get to the place. Where like you were like okay. This whole shit is fucked up like facebook. Basically throwing the fucking election for us like that are not designed for our benefit and we ha- glaringly apparent to a vast vast amount of people. So i don't think it would have been beneficial because we had to get to the point where artists are like. Listen i am so fucking sick of this. Like yup seem of the pandemic. It's like cool Like a lot of this stuff came to light because like the only revenue for a lot of musicians just evaporated overnight like i would know Beneficial anybody. But i will. I do think it was a tipping point which people were like. Okay okay this is. This doesn't make like the. there's gotta be something else. I'd time chronic optimists for the most part. Like i try to look at things like a now half whole person really fucking difficult since twenty. Sixteen and I think that if there is a silver lining there it's just people were fucking up. There's very few things to give me hope honestly but these edgewise networks is is among the I it's it's so interesting because to hear you talk about this like i do. Look at you as a voice of authority in stuff like this. I don't know if you feel that way. But that is how i look at. You graduated from stanford. So i definitely think. But that's probably good. I you probably shouldn't. I think it's better that i i think that way. It's interesting thing by where this all starts right like you were saying you. You started working in publicity when you didn't really know how to do it. And you just kinda showed up and were thrown into the fire with it and again. We've been talking about all this. This record label major label infrastructure. You're experiencing managing artists that were on these labels but when you founded oslo with with scarlet and and others. I have to assume you didn't have a ton of label experience either. Yeah so i wanna be also nearly. This is a very important point that i want to make. I slightly acknowledged that a lot of this is a function bridge. One hundred percent like a function of specifically white privilege. There is like. I do not subscribe whose idea this gainers like. Oh i didn't you could do to like it's not that i don't want anybody can do it but i i have witnessed in my career. Is that like the greatest religious having parents. Tell you what you can do anything and you believe in you And that has been something. That i'm i don't take for granted at all and i don't necessarily think it's common especially when like you know. Certain conversations are dominating the you know the the minds of other people when one of those conversations are like okay. Don't get killed by the police. If you see the police just put your hands in the air and act like a certain way but that there are other people in this world. Don't have the night have had in. Frankly the confidence that i have. We kind of the confidence of stupidity that my appetite for risk. I'll say that much is not. It's something that i'm i'm happy about a that has defined by absolutely might realize general Physically morning jumping option in water or like his career risk it. That is the greatest privilege and that is why. I don't feel comfortable solving small problems. Because i have the luxury of being able to know that if it doesn't work out i'll still be able to figure something out the i don't think him everybody else. Has that same luxury. Yeah A hundred like that's why i love. Today's like and this is a huge. This is you crypto. Fucking pets.com era right now dot com. That's great but it was the only thing that i felt really. We're like. I felt like i could be well deployed instill get out of bed in the morning. Yeah absolutely man. But again like i i wanna go back to just a just a little bit when you were working with catherine and you meet skirl ex and how. How did it happen. It was it that sunny asked you to build the label with him. I was working and the story is a depends on who. You're yeah but also my vision which is believed to be the true one I was working. Yeah basically like dj in in san francisco And that's kind of like the blog outings during your certain halftime With dubs at the time. I was hearing grievances. That sounded more like rap that you can mix with a t is because the seventy seventy bpm sixty five like And eventually when i was in i don't know what is call me itself Play out at least and When i was in chicago happens like hey does anybody like. She stood No step is like ashley totally know exactly what was kind of like there's been linked. Yeah and and she's like oh. This guy is going to play this show downtown. Atlantic is super hot. On because nearly like his numbers his touring during this crazy with us doing like five thousand tickets at that time and no one knew this very very early. Scroll ex yeah and it was like seeing kids who from the days of like verse. Last kids that were like really really internet but like general populace didn't know who it was but knew that as anybody You meet him like this gives an rubbing superstar like there's when you meet saunders engine no doubt rambo was going to happen to that points And sorry madam week lakes really well. And then i was like i was dated april Catherine obviously you know Did the heavy lifting like called rolling stone called spin dumb. Got him all discovers and stuff like that. But i was the one that was like in the trenches scheduling a lot of stuff doing all the blogs online stuff. And the thing that we're really was it was it was like I started interacting with his his manager. tinsmith who's i talked to this morning. A mentor in a very close friend. dearly in tim's is very different than other people in the music manager managers at a certain level in the music industry Become as as forced function like they become a sort of. I don't want say area blake. You have to beat people up basically for a living. Yeah you basically have to be like the bad guy yeah. They're the bad guy fulltime. Yeah and tim was operating at this level. Where i was like. Why is he so nice to me. When other in like opposites the bottom of the food chain in the music industry in many cases or they're treated as such and they shouldn't be And like i was just used to getting like for basically fucking off like you know just like yep leaving unlike the ball likely Him always like super super fucking cool in like really communicative prophetic Just awesome and i was like basically at that time as anything the you are doing. I wanna do so. Let me know if i can do more. And i'm also working like ten hour days at this time like i didn't have bandwidth but i was like i'll find the fucking time i don't. This is probably why you and didn't hang out literally working fourteen hour days But yeah i mean we just became close and one day was just like hey you know. We're thinking about starting label. It'll be light at first. You know just putting on a couple of releases ear but we love involved with your grade guy. I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that. Without catherine involved. Because like she is essentially head saved my life at that point and so i asked catherine i was like yo. Tim's tim's only wanted to disable We should together. She thinks she will attest to the opposite. This is what i believe to be true And so yeah we we. We kicked it off. We hired our first guy like news. Seven months in put up robinson's album put out zaid's for single Put out kill noise. I record by the way jake is. I think listening to this right now. So hijack subject. Yeah like kind of go from there and then twenty thirteen. We decided to kind of supercharging also ran his publishing company for a while and signed. Signed a bunch people there and and you were doing you took on a few different roles in our sled like during your time there like am i right that you were doing. Anr at some point. Yeah yeah i mean i i. It was kind of like everybody doing everything. I was definitely doing most of the pr for like the day to day stuff and then zane hiring a bunch of stuff just generally babysitting people. The seemed pretty big on one point. I think we were like twelve people or something Prenatal is pretty good. It was also like there is in many cases like things that we would want to do that. We didn't have the agency to do. Because we aren't scroll ix and as a result that's why everything feels so uniquely curated that came on that label because like at the end of the day. You know there's one person driving like steering the ship we're all co-founders in the have a skin in the game on wanna see the Didn't want to ensure that everybody is you know taking care of but at the end of the day the goal was never to make money round. And i'm really proud of that at Founders it's hey they're proud of the fact that they're they're a startup never never made money but That was how designed to be. It was not designed to be a commercial vehicle is designed to be a support system before Sunny thought deserved a to have to be on stage that was largely when they're on In that experienced interpreting are informed. Absolutely like what we're doing a in terms of audience in in terms of things that we would you know soundcloud was where we found. Everything sunny found everything Different avenues Silla facilitated collaboration and again like i think even labels that would want to put out the same volume of music that we did it would be hard pressed to find good stuff in any cases. Like digging through the demo. Inbox is not the move. The these the sound god would surface things that were high quality and then you find him nearly. Hey only out. It still happens but it certainly was. Yeah one i mean. You're the house track record. I mean you listed a bunch. You know porter zad and all that i mean. It's it's crazy not only in terms of just how many of these artists are still super influential artists. That we talk about to this day. But but also i mean just culturally at the time in the dance in which is always my lands like it shook up the whole landscape. You know like it really felt different than what other labels even you like. There are a lot of cool labels but what you guys were felt different. It felt like you had different ideas about it or different goals. That was definitely from definitely came from sunny and frankly i have heard that a lot obviously stand complemented by Nothing happier definitely didn't realize at the time like we're just having fun And also like. I didn't. I didn't come from another label and was like yeah. Let's do something different. I was like. Let's do anything you want to do. And hopefully it works And it did. But like. I've heard that from a lot of people like yeah. It's hard when you're in the woods like that. It's it's hard to see the trees. I guess the best way to put it and it's also like dude. There's pictures of people like cutting themselves. Lakes critics louis into their arms Do we get fan mail with like this kid. I don't know whether it'd be listening. But his kid would drop in blood and send them to the biz. Three office with sonny's name on it. Like crazy fans like his fans were like so like his fans were lifers yelm and like for me. I never listen the email. I was listening to rap almost exclusively for most of my life like these kids really seem to like this guy away because it's my friend's son like i met him when he was on an upper trajectory but not at the level is now and so like it was easy for me to just be like. Oh yeah sunny one. He's like as a person to you know they'll say he's like the most like low key super or super humble and sweep guy like doesn't even really cut it yet one could be could be pardoned for mistaking him for a global superstar. If they didn't see him. I guess you know totally doesn't he doesn't So yeah i i thank you. It's a huge compliment like it's never Until really honestly like audience has kind of helped me zoom out a lot and look at that and have people like the founders being like lake huge like you know people on the staff being like like he uploaded something the audience i think one of the signatures like dude Uploaded something to your you. I like early. I think the protocols Free but yeah. It's like they're like isn't big fucking deal to our team when when he started fucking with us because like they built it because of like like him. That was kind of like a huge reckoning. That was that was cool to enjoy always sunny really made. It made everything kind of feel flat. If that makes sense in terms of the lady up there wasn't ever really like any sort of hierarchy for me. I think that also was a demonstrated in the way he treats artists who heatedly. He'll find a kid from fucking the middle of fucking nowhere fly l. a. Put him up in his fucking mansion in light or every call me now and they would stay there and make music fucking months like that happened all the time chance. The rapper lake spent a lot of time in the house like i. La trips When i was trying to the sunny. I asked her up to sunny. Also has the rap album that never exist without There you go. I sent acid wrapped sunny And he was just like dude. This kid's fucking on real. We got to work with him. And i'm like we're dance label which was find out and yet i mean then. Chances is in the miss for like months and months in like again like he kinda got insanely famous during that period of time in never really occurred to me until much later We're all just conditioned to to to get used to the idea of people music mistreated dunking in just being aches and frankly it's probably not more than bidding did even then because the playfield with someone level like you can have us on soundcloud exploding and all of a sudden you're playing the same festivals is the people that inspired you overnight. Yeah i mean. Do you look back at that time. Obviously you know. I'm sure you still have a relationship with sunny but in those early years like was there anything working closely with him that you took away from that. Did it change the way you worked at. Change the way you looked at this business. I wouldn't see it. Because i didn't really look at the business before. That right definitely informed everything for sure just in terms of like most of the way you treat people. That's as much of a catherine frazier. Tim thing as it is anything else the to he likes my greatest mentors Not just don't be shitty shitty that don't And i've i've i would probably be a lot more successful in the music industry. If i hadn't embrace that mentality early on the bike should he. People go really are music. Career not even like actively evil people who either knowingly or unknowingly a participant behavior that is a net detrimental to a creators. Like if i didn't have that like hanging over my head like i'd be. I'd be running a major label right now if i want to. That's maybe not necessarily gates. But i can probably be some sort of s. Vp or something. Yeah absolutely what we speaking of of all of that. How did it come that you ended up like leaving hausler sort of stepping back a little bit rate. I mean that's great so like the the again the fact is that the company was not designed to make money. And i at the time i think wanted to. I didn't really see a future where i would be able to do the things that i wanted to do. In terms of my life like own property which is like you know only something that's been recently a possible even It just felt. Like i could be. I live like a insatiable need to be learning and to be taking risks and things like that and it just felt like he was in a place. Where like it's doing what it's doing it's like. It's doing what we said we wanted to do. and that was you know i i would say the the if if western capitalism has any benefit is that it does encourage competition in innovation with that component removed like outlet. Didn't need to do anything that wasn't already doing. I didn't need to grow beyond where it was and i wasn't necessarily learning anything Kind of like solve that puzzle. We literally saw the huddle united had a discussion sunny. And i was like i like folks management and doing things like just film. Tv whatever and he was super supportive any bombing out. Yeah i mean that's that's huge man. And what was it like. Why were you thinking about management. At that time you know. Obviously you said you were managing the band in san francisco way back. But i felt like i manager had a big Had a big influence on me That was chances manager. Were very good friends. He's brilliant brilliant. And i think that i looked at that. Is that the relationship that he had with. Not only the created the talent but like with the actual art like. I have a more of a creative singer print on the younger even artists. Now i it. All round. In fact i donated of phenomenally talented doing really really well sign of atlantic season and i am absolutely completely removed from the creative process like it has nothing to do with and i'm really proud of that I i help facilitate in having a long career bread but at the time i think there was like a green and that i wanted to Wasn't with with And yeah i mean and also like i wanted to work like while Some might release memories of music early. Rapidly ahead strategy magazines growing up in the source and a So i really want rabbinate. That boogie and i still dating than just so immensely. Talented has such a high ceiling is continuing to grow. He's amazing i remember. I knew about him because of you because you were managing him and posting about him and all that and then you know once he dropped the song. Oh my i think is when a lot more people started finding out about him and and that song too. I mean i feel like you know you were talking. About being more involved creatively. I could feel your hands in the rollout of that song as well. That was like one night. Protestant is my career was when we draw that. And i think that if i don't think that if he did he probably because i don't think he likes that so many more artists don't like what i on you know like ninety nine percent of them yup hate their break out But yeah for for me. That was something that i wanted to do for a long time. we took. We took it to the hot one hundred in. You know he. When i met him he had had the song and he was rapping about like getting passed over by girls because he had a list and then he became the monster like he. He like literally when when we got the his kid. These kids like three meeting forest But he played the his uses writings veteran. You know will be. His kidneys started dancing. That's actually a lot of people will tell you. That's how you know like when it like when you play demos for kids there they have this absolutely like virgin affiliation with like a they listen to it for how it sounds that there is no contracts. And if you get a kid if you get a kid into a song like that's like doesn't have that's not a jaded person. You know like the purity of that music will be resonant with them in a way that it's not with anybody else in his kid fucking love that song so we knew we had something Was who made era the be. I don't know how long we had lake gate using a lot of blog. Love and stuff like that but Somebody honey give up his big running really on the web This guy alex the atlantic now He was wearing brought new jalil's from just being in new york. And this is when hot a The obvious Song is going absolutely crazy. Delivered that Packard jalil relate shirtless here And that was somewhere in it and Yeah i don't like it. It's kind of a valuable that we got. That beat at that time intervene. A huge problem down the line by the way way why because Apparently after we have signed on the strength of that song that we label on the radio and we were like cool. Jalil no samples should all of a sudden it starts charged sampling a quote producer of dramas associated winters Don don cannon again. Yeah it was deng. Handed apparently points on the bead as he helps you. Find the sampler something. We had never heard any of this sample in the eating like more than half of the song publishing the song. It's i'm french actually examples of frenchman. Who how and when you do a deal with sample in the sample holder of indicates has some greeted us and they wanted to do agree on a termination. Roundly a case like these bases and we had that song sinks for like the training like coming out song baraki This was number thirty two on the hot one hundred. The biggest is gonna be like in the biggest movie country. And the sam. The right shoulder of the sample wouldn't agree to being one hundred thousand dollars when they want to get it up and i was like guys fucking work as we need it so bad and they the the guy that helped sampling. Oh it was john michelle jar. Oh shit in his. It wasn't hit his publisher. A killing the song Join hundreds nothing shaken. Stick out but like i get going off. Song wildlife bit zamel kind of blocked us on which unfortunately man i mean that just makes me think about a lot of other things we've been talking about today and in terms of yeah in an leveling the playing field a bit That was one of those just dealing with the label at a certain point. did harbor resentment towards people at the label shore while now absolutely because i do believe that again people are. I believe that people are inherently good. And they want the best for me but It is just the way that the labels function with trading companies function is explicitly designed to extract value from orders artisan workers and Did i was like yeah. That was kind of the turning point. Just like i fucking figure out a senate all homes or like You know figure out how to music industry because you can only pick one. I just got a couple of questions for people who have been listening allying to to just throw actually here. This is an interesting question. And i'm curious especially given your your story of how catherine asked you if you do dub step is and you're just like yeah sure So this is from from zack. From seattle how do you feel about how artists changed the meaning. And the sound of dub step the term away from the original uk sound and. Was that something. You were aware of at the time. I think that's a. That's a kind of a shot over the bow any intention of like the music we had. You won't catch sunny in your view. I read every single. One of them agrees using his upset In fact there is a moment. And i won't. There's a moment where spin magazine called Lead single which is absolutely decidedly. Not upset they called a so detached reality. Dread song dub step how lecturer it was like a form of your house on and i remember calling like catherine getting on the phone with them and being like You can't hold us up. Said this is that. What are you talking about what he wants to call it and Electronic dancing called neom are okay and they changed their mind this article. I'd say i'm i won't claim that we coined it it was you you did. This won't won't claim that we wanted. But we're damn near diversity. But i will say that. Wow and so we. We made to consider that. It's not a the thing. I will also mention about all musicians that that is important. He minds can't fans. Do you have to go wanted to end. Artists oftentimes make a huge miss. That when they're like you know. I don't think so. Lime fans really wanted dudes with like a trigger has inviting you know giants All matter stickers on you however would never light. This is our share like you. Can't you can't control that. People put a story out there and people gravitate towards it. Sometimes i want to call. That has no despite our best efforts. We really tried to make that. Not the case spider has ever kinda become the german that was used but sunny also really became exposed that sounding like he isn't an og. Yeah you already know. But he he fucking. He loved them using indefinitely again. Like poland influences from it. But i don't think he ever considered as music Dubs up but i don't think he does. I certainly don't use the term because it's like it's like a kind of colloquial like connecting. Wait now know what you're talking about. I mean i. I know exactly what you mean man. It's it's really interesting talking about the idea that like at a certain point you don't control it anymore. Like it makes like i've had. I've had a lot of conversations with dave nada. 'bout mumba thanh in the same way where you know. He started the sound and to him. It was one thing and then once it got to a certain level of popularity like he wasn't really in control of where was going anymore and at a certain point you know. He went in a different direction. Then you control music you gain control what how people reacted and you know Euphemism is broadly applicable device. Like i don't know what the fucking split is. But you know i'm willing to say seventy percent thirty percent reaction. That's a good one. Yeah i mean you know there's the classic like you can't you can't control other people right you can only control your own choices and You know the way you present yourself. Yeah i completely agree man. That's super interesting. I did not realize that. He sonny's never referred to his music as dub step. That's very interesting. And actually makes a lot of sense of new tribes. Do not make it. Which was passed with with you know protecting narrative in creating the narrative that was we. We definitely fought it but we can only hey man you can't. You can't fight duff steps. At the end of the day there is a the title of his debut. Album is all during levin Absolutely like tongue in cheek reference. One more question from from the chat posey. This is a pretty pretty general question so feel free to interpret this in any way you want. It's just the classic. If you could do it over again. What would you do differently man though. I don't think i would do anything differently again. I kind of. I'm kind of pragmatic about these kinds of things like i'm really fulfilled and i'm really happy and i think that I want. I think i've learned that lessons. I needed to learn at times. I needed to learn them There's one i yelled at bogies. Anr like really yelled at him in a way. That was really inappropriate. That i look back now And i'm not proud of that And i maybe would have done differently but also like i think it was all part of a you know. I don't know if he has a very into quantum mechanics. All this idea again. Like marxism sure. There's somebody here Armchair physicist More than me But from my understanding there is now studies that indicate that adams can live in two states in two different times which would imply that there can be two different realities occurring at any time. So like i'm happy with the reality that i have either chosen or or been a lucky enough to inhabit but also like is say necessarily that. I don't know when you're reading the tea leaves. And you're paying attention in your in your zone. I don't think i made it. I don't wanna say they haven't made any wrong decisions. But i also don't think i made the decision that i was supposed to make at the time that i made them again. I'd probably be saying that. If i had made a different decision to just because that's how i feel about life right but that's a good the have man i think. That's that's the right attitude. Is that you know whether or not it was supposed to happen or priore dead. I don't know how far down the spiritual path you go with any of that. But whether or not you buy into any of that. It's whatever happened. That was that was good like at the time you know when i mean it it. It keeps me driving off a bridge on. Yeah i mean just the fact that that your one regret is one time you're immune to somebody i think says a lot man. I just maybe here. But i think that i could. I think people to be designing decision. But now. In retrospect i think that i i could have been more about it. Yeah well hey man. That's that's fair. I think about that kind of stuff too. It's it's nice and talking about sunny and talking about being nice talking about tim. Being empathetic to you. I think like a theme in all of this is that it's actually somewhat rare to find true. Nice caring people in this business of what we do and if any of us on any side of the business can put more of that out there. i think that's that's really going to be a net positive at the end of the day. Always i love that man. Well this this has been really fun. Man i wasn't sure exactly where this conversation was going to go. Because you're much harder to research than a lot of people. I talked to out here. I'm glad to hear that. Thank god on my will. Say i will say i don't know of you know this if you google your name. One of the first things that comes up is your imdb page. I had heard that yeah. Yeah kobe's now. launch A couple of years ago the cooking. Show starring miguel. So that's been a partner in the production company so inevitably there will be more additions page. But i'm pretty completely inactive now. I got my hands in a lot of buts well. Yeah yeah that wa-. I was going to start wrapping it up by asking you. Is there anything we haven't talked about anything else. You're involved in right now or even something. You're not involved in the. You're just excited about anything you you got your eyes on. I'm excited about format excited. But i'm concerned with the global water shortage that's impending. I am concerned with The sustainability motion plastics and. I do have some exposure to those. I work with a company called cove Who made the world's first hundred percent biodegradable bottled water. Really proud of that Do more there. I don't know. I think that wasn't a music. I'd be working sustainability some capacities. I've read a lot about that. I wouldn't really don't think that. I work in music anymore. i dunno aired. You work with musicians. You work adjacent to music. I feel like yeah definitely not I i love that. Some a couple. A couple in the traditional industry About but yeah. I mean what is your. What does your day look like like. You're involved in a whole bunch of different ventures. You have molds varied interests i mean. Is there such a thing as a typical workday for you finally. Yeah mainly got audience. I started off as contractor. Zombie became full. It is by far the consumes the gross majority of my time I'm lucky to have had a career where i've met a lot of cool people that people wanna talk to so my exposure outside of audience is really just a have relationship Like i'm i'm also really lucky to have had a w By a little bit you know spread that out in advising investment couple things. But i don't really. I'm not really acted in anything. But audience in matinees. Now just because in those same things matt is an artist that i believe is an affront to a lot of the things that i dislike about the music industry in his music and storytelling is resonates with away that no one else does and so i look to create better systems outside of the traditional ones so that i can eventually height reserve equal. Likes him and personally What what do you mean when you say you know. What he does is is an affront. Goes against a lot of the conventional industry right now just in terms of the fact that he is very deliberate about his songwriting in his personal nature. Was music. what it means to him what it can be leather people. Music just generally isn't personal right now in many cases at least in terms of like people during his lane. He's a singer songwriter. But like he has crossover songs like he's got to records people at achieve those kinds of things did. Many cases are not intimately recorded air not intimately involved with the creation of the story behind the zones. Brennan kind of like in matters just that is will never be something that does he died hor before he let somebody else readily form basically. Yeah i mean going back to like the house lewis never about making money man. I can see i feel like that's a that must be an ethos that you're attracted to in some way. Yeah i'm i'm attracted to the idea of sustainability across everything not see the museums regarding housing sustainable sustainable for most people i think the idea of scaling down wealth is something that mary very obsessed with not say that i don't like being comfortable in having you know being nominated for the work that i did that i've done for many years but i also don't think anybody needs to be better and i don't think anybody needs to be at the top of every play lists. Yeah amen well that okay last last little thing before i let you go earlier. You said that. I don't think there needs to be billionaires. And i also don't think there needs to be drake's or taylor swift which i was wondering like in your in your i don't know if you have an idyllic vision of like what the perfect system would look like but does the existence of popstars. Does that go against the idea of like equality for artists. I think so because attention is a commodity and though our attention it we don't make our own decisions online whether you like to think so or not we don't like an so the centralization of our attention towards certain pillars of of creativity i do think is a product of platforms not necessarily people. I'm a fucking huge drake away like you straight fit a full stand. That said like a lot of people aren't instill this news music because it's there and it's accessible. It's just what it is. I mean english despite. I won't get into that. Because i don't take stands. She's phenomenal no yup. We're not talking about the artists themselves. Not nothing with the artists. We're talking about the ways the fans find them Like yeah. I don't think anybody needs to be as popular as taylor swift because i think that There's a hundred other one other people that are equally also have a different perspective or have a different style. Songwriting about who also had ideas that are valid and should be considered will never be because they just. They weren't at the right time with the rate amount of data supporting a rate algorithm man. It's i've never thought about popstars as billionaires like that corollary but that's actually pretty spot on. That's really interesting stuff we know. That's anger man. You gotta push thanks dude. Absolutely thank you. Thank you for doing this man. It's really nice to just catch up with you. Like i feel like we're connected because i see you on social media all the time but when i thought about is like i actually haven't actually talked to that guy a long time. I know. I don't think that my box for more than fifteen seconds. Quick i was. I was stoked to man. Dude thank you and so. This is the last question that i asked at the end of each one of these interviews. It's kind of just like first thing that pops into your head kind of question Just looking for a time in your life a memory a moment it could be from any time when in that single moment music really deeply affected you really a deep impact on you in that moment. Easy as i mentioned. I was really obsessed like living in the city when i was a little kid and my mom had a really cool friend. Much heard Coolidge in seattle. And there's music festival seattle Called When i was thirteen. My mom lemme travel. Trump boise to seattle with my best friend Which is pretty crazy and we were staying with her. And i now realize apartments we'd probably realized it then but also just didn't mention that to my mom but She played stealing ads. Asia for us in her sweater in her volvo which for dragging us Somewhere she played delay dam's asia in the first negative blackout. Which is the first album by any artist. Ever i remember being like holy shit. This is just like it was like this concert experience where it was raining. I was in this beautiful city. That i never been there. I had like the sense of freedom. I never really traveled that far from home alone before that will always be one of my favorite musical memories. That's incredible The because that's what it is right. It's like the soundtrack to the important moments in our development. Like there's nothing more powerful than that. And i and i feel like all we do is really chase after that that feeling in our result live separately goes away then. Yeah absolutely man. I think that's you know to sustain any kind of long career. I mean really in any business but anything creative for sir. That's what it is right. it's you got to. It's almost like the sampling thing from earlier. You just to flip your perspective on it a little bit and find a new way to say something about a new way to enjoy it for yourself any of that yet. Definitely it comes from different sources. You get those you get those moments from different things as you grow older. I think like. I don't know i don't really know if i can think of an analogy like migrant state of I think for a lot of people's probably having your kid is like the ultimate moment. Yeah hey be dear. Ever see that in your future. I feel like this whole world is gonna be opened fire and flames yet. I don't necessarily know But it's not. I don't plan on planning it that way. I like that man. I mean it seems like that's correct me if i'm wrong but it seems like that's the way you sort of operated in a lot of different parts. That'll be the biggest exactly. I love it man. Well there's been really good man. I i really enjoyed catching up with you. Man there's been great to chair for having absolutely thank. You have a great day season piece.

clayton willie joy boise Willie joy hausler clayton blah chicago san francisco barber taylor Clayton microsoft matt mason mexico From north long beach ace hotel downtown lesko los angeles vegas new york
212: Eptic (returns! again!)

Back To Back

1:33:24 hr | 4 months ago

212: Eptic (returns! again!)

"This is back backbackers. This is willie joy. Welcome to the show. This is back to back. This is my podcast. How are you how we doing. We're back another tuesday. How you feel you feel in all right. I hope you're doing hope you're doing well. I'm doing pretty well. it happened. The podcast went live This last week. If you miss the big announcement this last week was the first week of back to back. Being recorded live on twitch i was somewhat anxious about it. It went great overall. Of course. I messed up a lot of stuff as i am. Want to do but Yeah overall man. It was so much fun. Shout out to everybody who was hanging with us hanging in the chat submitting questions for me and my guest apt iq epic is back on the show. Man one of my favorite people. He's here you know. Now that we've started recording. These episodes live on twitch. In this transitional time. I wanted to have a a couple friends friends of the show friends of mine. Some family members come through just You know so when. I mess things up. It's not quite as embarrassing. Because i can do it in front of them after is definitely one of those people and uh man one of my favorite producers. He's got a brand new song out right now with marshmallow and j juicy j. That's crazy The song is called hitter. It's on marshmallows. New album and starting in july epic is back baby optics. Coming back to the states touring doing a lot of shows as things start to open up around the country so you gotta go see him when he's in your town Look there's a link in the description of this episode where you can go follow him. Keep up to date with all. The tour dates all the new music. He's got a lot more coming out. he dropped a bunch of awesome songs on monster cat earlier this year and a lot more to come you can follow me as well at willie joy or at back to back pat on all social media. Back back. pod at gmail.com is the email address. And now twitch dot tv slash willie. Joy is where every single wednesday and probably we're going to start adding some other days some other content on there but right now every single wednesday you can go there to see this show being recorded live. You can participate. You can ask questions while we're talking. I'm working on building out a little section at the end where we respond everybody's questions You know the format were still tinkering with it for anybody who is in the chat. The first time around you know you saw me sweat sweating a little bit but Man we had such a good time. So come join us on wednesdays twitch dot tv slash willie joy if you wanna see this show getting recorded live and another big part of that of course is the back to back discord. The link for that is in. The description of this episode is well. That's my little home base. Mike clubhouse we've got an amazing community of people in there. It is growing all the time and we would love to. Have you come join up. Come share what you're working on. If you're music producer and artist get some feedback link up with some like minded people. Come ask a question about this. Show a question that you want asked on the show and if you wanna get in touch with me for any reason that's probably the easiest way to do it. I'm in there all the time. So yeah that's all business. Come join the discord and come hang out with me on twitch but look. Today is epic day on. The podcast is epics appearance. He's joining the very rare three peat club. There's only a few people who who are in that club. Really and i mentioned this on the live broadcast on twitch but i had to get him back because epic was the first guest. I had when lockdown started and when this show had to switch to doing remote interviews through zoom which was always something. I said i would never do before that and look at me now no. It's actually been great. The the switch man. I've gotten to talk to so many people. I never would have had the chance to otherwise through zoom and through this lockdown. But the first one the first one to trust me to do it was app dick. He was locked down in belgium where he had kind of gotten stuck at the beginning of all of this and talking to him. Now when everything's leading up and he's finally getting back out there it's kind of a good full circle chat you know fourteen fifteen months later you know. In that time. He is released a lot of amazing music. He's been writing a lot more as you're going to hear us talk about in this conversation and you'll also hear his talk about how you know in this time like many of us. was kind of a time for reflection a time for figuring out. Well why do i really do this. What am i doing it for what is important to me. He said something which i love which is just what do i like. I think that's a question we can all ask ourselves a little more when we're trying to do something creative when we're trying to to do something on our own is is really. Ask ourselves that question. What do i actually like. Not what do i think i should like. Not what do other people like. That might be popular. But what do i like. You got to check in with yourself a little bit sometimes. And that's what i love about epic. It's what i love about his music. Which always just sounds like him. And i'm really glad that we got this little chance to check in before everything goes crazy again so look for you the listener. The person hearing my voice right now. I hope that you know as everything's open backup as life kinda resumes as we sort of. Try to get back to whatever normal is now. You're able to do that to check in with yourself. Take a little time. Make sure whatever you're doing you're doing it because you wanna do it. You're doing it because it's important or because it'll get you somewhere you want to go. And i'm glad we get to take a little time here to check in together shutout. Everybody who's showing love. Every single week you know putting up tweets tags in your stories telling people they got check out the show. That is the best way to support back to back by the way just letting people know they should be checking it out spreading the word. We are a community based organization over. Here you know the move to twitch has been great because i get to talk to you guys even a little bit more. I love talking to you there. I love talking to you on the discord. And of course anytime i see somebody out there spreading the good word about back to back. I'm always going to be replying. Reposting generally just interacting with anything you put out there saying hi so keep it up. We love to see the support and for now. I hope you enjoy this episode. Let's do it right now. Returning to the show the three peat champion. This is me and app. Dick back to back. Let's go buddy. how are you man. It's great to see you. i'm getting man. I haven't seen him for so long. So it's very nice beautiful little face. how am i look how change. Since he saw me last. You look very handsome man. have you been. Have you been using face screens. Have you been working out. Because i'm just i'm just feeling the same radiating beauty that i get from mother son every single day at first. I thought you were going to say from my mother which i wouldn't know how to take that But no dude. it's crazy. i really wanted to have you on for the first time i did this. Try this because you were the first person who came in. Did this podcast. When i switched to doing this on zoom and when the democ happened and when all this craziness started like before that i wouldn't even do remote interviews like people would ask me turn it down because i like no in person only and then. Yeah we had to switch on a dime and i remember. I don't know what you remember about that. But for me what i remember is me asking you like less than a day before and you just being down for it and it just kind of what happened for this to but thank you for that. Yeah i was just telling someone earlier i remember. You came to my show in san diego and you came to my hotel. Room for podcast. Yeah that was the first time we ever met. I think yeah. yeah exactly. Yeah how are you buddy are you. Is this the same place. Are you in the same place where i talk to you. Fourteen fifteen months ago yemen. I've been. I've been in my childhood bedroom for more than a year now and i can't wait to get out because i remember when all this went down like the last time we were talking. You were saying that you know you kind of had to make this snap decision back at the start of the pandemic when all these lockdowns are happening and it was you. Were i think in belgium at the time and then it was like well. If you wanna come back to the states you gotta come right now or you might not be able to. Yeah exactly so it's it's. It's actually quite crazy. So i was on the tour and australia and i was coming back for a rampage in belgium. Like the really big show. And i was coming back for I think a week and a half. And then i was going to Go to allay to move there and ended a week and a half corona happened and they were like malek management at the time. Said like okay so like you can come over now or it might take like a month or something and i was like. Oh i can wait a month and then this whole situation ended up taking man. Was that tough. How was it mentally there at the start at i. It was kinda great. Just because i haven't seen my family and so long and i always miss my home studio like i really like. I don't know what it is with the acoustics of the room like i literally preferred room like Like a really really expensive studio by home studio. We mean childhood bedroom. Read you exactly and i. It was great like a couple of the tracks that i released recently. Had like like all like all those ideas were probably made in like the first month and a half or something of me being here with with covid. Because i was like. I can chill out. I don't have to tour i can. I can just make music. It all sounds great. Whatever and then like then after that period like the magic kind of disappeared and i was like oh man. I've never been here for so long. Since i was like sixteen or something because i've always been traveling then. I kind of freaked out for a bit. And i think freaked out for probably like three or four months. I got like a little depressed and stuff but then a star hang out with friends and doing all kinds of stuff and now i don't really mind. I think if. I think if i would just get money for free like i'd be down with just i mean if i got money. Birth free lot of things. I would probably do and not do i mean i guess that's the thing though right is like what would you do because this this time did sort of forced us to stay in one place and did sort of force says to be like well. You know. you can't keep pursuing whatever. You were pursuing in the same way i mean. Did you a super broad question but did you figure out anything. Did you learn anything about yourself why you're doing it. I mean obviously you know you've been putting out a bunch of tunes lately and it seems like you've been really reenergized with all of that. Did anything change for you. Like creatively the way you think about what you do and your art and all that i think i think one of the big things that happened was like pretty much once. I got into college my first year of college and the epic thing kind started Start started gaining traction I always knew like oh. This is what i'm gonna do as As a job and i never really question did and cove it happened. And i've i've always had this stream of income coming in constantly and then all of a sudden go from like playing shows like every weekend to just getting money from my streams merch. Yeah and then. I i kind of came in touch with this feeling of like opec. Whatever one point my career just stops and i gotta do something else. So i really started thinking and i'm kind of glad that happened because i did start to just explore new avenues. I was like okay. Like if i can do music anymore. You know. i got like a like graphics animation background like. Maybe i can do something with that man. I started like allow people in quarantine. Assert investing crypto at a. Really good time and i made like a ridiculous amount of money. Lost it all early So like it's actually quite nice. Because i learned a lot about investing which i'm really stoked about And i think definitely now with with playing shows and stuff. I'm i'm gonna start investing my money instead of just like hoarding it all It's something teach us right especially at a young age. I think it's possible for artists. Especially if you sorta catch a spark at a young age the money starts coming in but nobody tells you what to do if it no no. And it's and it's so important because like i've had a really bad accountants and of always like i only figured out doing corona. I lost so much money because of that the like another thing. I learned doing corona okay. You know what. I got a set up all these businesses like properly So i can make as much money. So i can start doing bigger shows and doing bigger tours and like whatever. Because it's all important. And i think like you said like allow people get into this being really young and they don't really know anything about it myself included. How old were you when you first started. Playing like out of town shows like i was like sixteen or something seventeen. Yeah and like like. I wasn't crazy money for it or anything but like i remember you know what enough time has passed so they can't really do anything about it. Let's go like like. I think i think i started playing shows when i was fifteen or or or sixteen and It wasn't for a lot of money. But like i played a lot of them like every weekend i would play like four or five shows like this was when and belgium depths up a booming and i was like i was playing so many shows and at one moment like i just like fairly big someone like my bank account and i remember telling my manager at the time i was just like man like earning money is so easy. It's so good great. Sixteen year old. Stay adults are worried about. Yeah it was like like. I don't get what you guys talking about like. This is so easy and My manager at the time was like yeah but then you gotta pay taxes on it and it was like why are you talking about was like gay. Yeah like you got to pay taxes on like it's like forty percent or something like that and i was just like. Oh he's like you haven't been doing your taxes right. It was like man. Like i had no idea i'm sixteen And i just doing nothing about it just kept. Have you ever talked to your talked a woolly about all this stuff. I think. I think if i would sell william my early days you would have a heart attack. People man was so funny. The first time actually kind of like you. The first time i talked to him was on this podcast. And i didn't know he had such a big financial background and then hearing him talk about it. Blew my mind that he still has like clients like he's managing people's money right now really mine man like you'd be so much better. I think he'd be down honestly. I it's wild to me like that's it's interesting. How people's brains work like i. I could tell talking to him like that's fun for him. He really enjoys managing money and thinking weirdo man. Shout out to willie island aca i. It's interesting i did like this is again brought question but did you meet anybody along the way who kind of in the same way. We're talking about like thought about the business differently than you. Or change the way your brain worked about the way you saw your own career or your own creativity. Does anything any specific person pop into mind Not really man. Like people always gave me a terrible money advice like. I don't think a single person give me so. You've just trust nobody. Yeah i don't trust anyone because like like it's so crazy in this industry but literally so many people stole money from me like took advantage for me because because i was so young at the time and Just kind of learned like it's it's it's always good to like utilize other people and like i like have a business manager now and stuff like that because it makes life easier but i try to stay like really on top of everything and overlooked everything and they try to do as much myself as possible. Because it's just like. I think i think you're not really into money and stuff. It's really really easy. To to kind of whistle it off to the side and not pay attention to it and then just like crazy stuff happens without knowing and then years later. You're like oh. My god like how did that happen. And i think that's for for all anybody watching right now. Anybody who's listening to this when we put it out later like i think that's applicable at any level and it's not even necessarily about musicians it sort of whatever goal. You're working on whatever you're trying to accomplish even if you're not that far along yet it's you gotta start thinking about that stuff early even if it's just small changes even if you're talking about a difference in you know ten dollars to one hundred dollars like all that stuff adds up and like you said year after year like you can look back and be like. Oh man i really mess up for a long time. Yeah i think. I think one of the biggest mistakes i've made and it was actually kind of ridiculous unlike like this. This is a thing like this was a mistake i made. It's when you start playing bigger shows and stuff like a lot of money comes in and it gives illusion the you just have so much money but like you kinda forget that you have to pay all these expenses You know it's like when you do a show and it's like a big headline show you like usually pay for like all the productions so it's like led screens Like all the ceo's to like all this crazy stuff and it's like literally thousands and thousands of dollars but when you see the show offers and stuff and you just need that money coming in your life. I'm so rich. And like i like. I just started going like like usually. I'm pretty good with my money as well. But like i just thought where i was just like just eating like sushi like three times a week and like eating out and i i spent so much money on food man like a ridiculous amount like i like sell my account and belgian. She was like man like. Did you buy like a nice car or something. Like no man. I go so cars. Wait in sushi. I was so embarrassed. This year is going to be different here. Hell yeah ben. And i mean it's interesting like what do you long as we're on the topic of money like what what is valuable for you. What are you cool with spending money on what actually brings value into your life versus you know sushi four times a week will like usually like for instance. When i'm here in belgium like i hardly spend any money like i. Just go to the grocery store and make food. And i've never really been someone to like like i know people that just spend all their money on like you know they'll go and buy a crazy car and like and like by all these crazy clothes and stuff and like. I've never really done that. I think the stuff. I really spend money on when i'm on tour is is mostly just food and kind of travel as well Just because i. I don't like to feel bad back like like if you travel like all the time sometimes and you're like all these shitty airports and stuff and you're like eating airport food like through the week that's why so much like sushi and like wins like nice restaurants and stuff. Because that's something. I could like control and like it would just make me feel like. Oh my god. I'm having like good food and my system Instead of like burger king. I like the way you put it though is something you can control right. I think that's that's kind of like touring in the road life. I don't think everybody knows about is that you do feel that most things are out of your control right. Yeah yeah exactly. Like i remember one time when i was travelling in new zealand. I like i played shows in a row and like i didn't sleep at all and felt really bad and I was about to play this. This really big festival in new zealand. And like i just felt awful and i had this like five or six hour flight to get auckland and i was like okay. You know what. I'm going to upgrade And upgrade ended up being like a ridiculous amount of money and ended up doing it. Because i was like you know. What if i just get like a little bit asleep on this flight. My whole experience is going to be so much better. The app and it was and it was really happy. I did it but like like that's like the kind of stuff i like usually like spend money on is just kind of like like feeling comfortable. Yeah well that's taking care of yourself because you know how beaten down you're gonna get by all the other stuff yet. Yeah exactly and it's like if you like. I've done the opposite thing as well. It's like when i first started touring like all the cheapest flights the like and like every flight would be at like five in the morning and stuff like that. I still do that a little to be honest yet the five. Am plates though. This is just a side note. I liked the five. Am flights because those are the ones you know. They're always going to be on time. That's going to ensure that is the least amount of time in the airport. Exactly exactly i do. I do it sometimes as well. But it's just like you know like if you're like or something and and you know you're doing like four five shows like in the road like i remember a couple years back to the tour where like like literally every every Every flight we took was like earliest flight and it was is so brutal and like we say it a lot of money but like it was just like so so brutal. yeah so i miss those days man. I mean. I remember like way way way back in the day when i was first starting to tour like before i should have been to our i you know i have been people to book places but they should not you know the dot net but i remember i i would take fucking i was in chicago. I would take greyhound buses to other cities i remember. I remember one side took once. I took a bus from new york city. Toronto which is like an eight hour bus ride and you have to like get off the bus at the border. And i had to convince the guy that i was supposed to be there and like no. I really playing a show. I know i'm on a greyhound bus and this looks insane. But i actually have paperwork and the whole thing man. It's that part of it. I don't miss it all but there's always levels like actually. I just reminded myself the first time i ever toured australia. And this kind of goes back to what you were saying about. You know taking all the cheapest stuff and feel a little out of control. So i was flying from my first show of. The tour was in perth. But i was flying from l. a. to sydney and sydney to perth and it was like back-back flights like no break in between so it's like a fifteen hour flight immediately followed by another six hour flight and so i was on there and i did. I did pay a little money. To upgrade and weirdly ended up sitting next to paul hogan. Fold on this fifteen hour flight. it's crazy it's funny man and we didn't really talk at all until the end of the fly. At which point i was like. Hey man not to bother you. But you know you're paulo fold right. And he was like not stoked at all that i was talking to him and i was just like hey man big fan known your work for a long time. This is actually my first tour in australia. I assume you're here touring as well and then he got a super like fatherly about it. Like a switch flipped and he was like asking me about my routing and what venue i was playing and then he just started like kind of critiquing me kind of giving me a hard time like this is a stupid flight routing. You should have never agreed to this thing you just roasting the sweet way but yeah he was just like you need to talk to your age in this is not how it should be done. And all the time i was just like look man. I'm just happy to be here. Like i don't know anything else i can't. I can't tour like you. Two are not yet but it did make me realize that. There's always levels to it. Because i thought i was fancy for like upgrading my flight to australia and then he was like no. You did this all wrong. You have any you have any brushes with the with those the older heads. The legends in our cnn. Where you sort of realized that were part of like a longer legacy of deejays and producers. Because i think we you know we always focus on ourselves and on are seen in the moment and what's happening right now but that was one of those moments for me. I was like. Oh it's been going on a lot longer than i actually don't know anything. Yeah i mean back. In the day. I like got a lot of when when schism was still my manager like like. He actually gave me like a lot of good advice because like he used to do. What was it called again. Like control z before he did schism. Okay Yeah so like he was used for like a really long time before he was doing schism as well so like he'd just had a load of Experience but like. I think i think apart from that not not really anything. That's fair man. I mean. I think that's that's good that you've been able to figure all this shit out only talk to young people man i mean. Do you feel older now. Like obviously you're in the game for a long time now. Do you does your perspective on yourself like do you feel like an old man in the game even though you're not man it's really crazy like i've been having like a midlife crisis like twenty eight years old where you're having a quarter life crisis. Yeah yeah like. I think it's really weird because like people think like people think i'm either a lot younger than i am or do you think i'm really old like a lot of people think i'm like forty or something. Yeah 'cause daylight started listening to me when they were same ages me or like a younger so like they all automatically. Think like oh. This guy is like thirty eight or something like are constantly get like like like like coms like oh man. It's like crazy. How an old man like you is like still relevant and like man. I'm fucking twenty eight. Do i mean it's funny though because it's hard not to feel old because the people coming to our shows there eighteen years old. They're twenty one years old. You know exactly. It's kind of constant while we get older. Something i've definitely noticed is when i started out making music i was so involved into the fan like in the fancy of everything i was like. I was one of the fans. And then like i had such a clear vision of like what music i wanted to make because i was just kind of like i wanted to make the same kind of music as these people that i look up to and then who are those people like at the time it was like like dr p and like fun ks and Whatever like there's like circus boys. And and as i got older like like the people kinda changed like you know like start loving. Scroll ix and stuff. I still do But like i was really clear vision. Because i was such a fan of the music and like i'm i'm i'm still a fan of the music but like i don't really know what it is but i feel so much less like involved in the fencing because i've been dislike artists position Yeah position for so long. So it's hard to put yourself back in that mode right. I feel like that's like that's the paradox. That we all have to constantly figure out is that we all got into this because we were a fan and that's exactly it's that kind of energy in that love for it like that's ideally if we're doing our jobs or like that's what we're putting back out there but then you get on the other side of it and man. Is it different. And stay connected. It's so weird man. And like i always had this kind of philosophy that i still think that works is like i've always just made the kind of music that i thought was cool and i was like if if people really are fan. They'll probably follow that thought process and they will probably think it's cool as well and like so far it has worked but then like like this last year. You know. I've had so much time with my thoughts and i kind of started thinking like like what do i think is cool. You know like what do i really wanna make became like really existential about it and like i couldn't make music for a while because i was just like man like i don't even know what i want to make you know. Wanna make up stuff like do. I just wanna start producing pop records. All in the machine do by the way. I think that's another you know. I think you have an ability that not everybody has. Which is that you even when you post like little clips of like the funny lay rap songs you make or the rack songs or any of that like you could go and make pop songs like you don't but i don't think you is defines you like what you're known for. You know what i'm in. Yeah i think. I think i could do it as just like like so. Many ideas have been like off and on the table like i. I've i think i've had the plan to like make a side project like ten times like like i'm like i'm just going to start doing does like different thing. And it's going to be completely different. And i'm going to kill the branding and bobo blah. And then every time. I kind of come back to like i know i should just do it under taken like see what happens So that's kind of my plan for now so like if all of a sudden i'm just not making anymore. You know why you heard it here i i. It's funny though. Because i don't even know. Do you consider yourself a step artists like so much of what you make. I think is really hard to categorize. Yeah i mean it's like like it's definitely gone a lot more like trap beer and stuff the past couple of years. But it's it's kind of weird lane because it's kind of too heavy for all the trap stuff but it's kinda like to hybrid to really be called the step i guess Yeah so i mean. I would love to good though. Yeah like a like that. Like i would just like to get to the point where i can just say like or like unlike an electronic music artists you know. And they've not really put it. John ron man one. I think if if what you're doing is sticking to that same ethos you had when you started of just making. What you think is cool. That's that's what people are gonna follow you for you. I think that's such a better way to define yourself as an artist whether you have a huge following a tiny following. At least that's people who like what you do. You can always trust that. Whatever you do next. They're going to be down with it. 'cause it's you know they're like you for for your brain for your process more so than you know. Whatever your last tune was yeah. Yeah exactly. i think it's best to go As well because like. I feel once he try and keep up with like what other people are doing or chase. A certain sound like inevitably comes across spontaneous. Yeah yeah. I just think that's right. I mean it's what you were saying earlier about this last year and you sort of trying to figure out. Why do i do what i do. What do i actually like. I mean what did you figure out have had some of these new releases that you've been putting out the stuff with with marshmallow or the stuff on monster cat stuck with marsh. I'm sure that was done a long time ago but does that like the stuff. People have been hearing. Does it represent what you've figured out or have people not heard a lot of what we're talking about now. I think i think they've never really heard a lot of what we're talking about. Because like when when when when corn seen i happen. I was like you know what i'm going back to the roots and i'm like gonna make like old step again and that's when i made the stop pretending song show people and like even the driven based on like payback like. It's all kind of like the older sound but then like like further along It actually like actually kinda changed my mind. When do you know slow slow tie. Y'all yeah absolutely. Yes like he He put out his new album. And i was like man like like this should so dope like already loved to make a song with him. And i was like you know what. I'm actually really confident that i make something really cool with them. Like like not even something like a drop or something but just like like me producing like the beats and shit and then i was kinda thinking like on an like if i hit up. Slow If i if. I hit up slow tie and he just sees this like hold track record on spotify with just like fucking like edm bangers. He's probably going to be like arm and like i don't wanna do shit i mean it's it's it's possible that he would. I think there's a big chance a lot of rappers are going to be like are like i don't want to work with this like edm stuff But in my mind. I'm like oh you know like i think i could really do this so i think the best way to like reach. That goal is to by just doing it to by just making different music. Yeah one hundred percent and then people people pull up the resume they pull up what you've done and yeah it'll be it'll be a whole different conversation. Yeah yeah like like. I don't really see why. I would like try and put myself into this box. Just because like i have been doing music and bass music for so long. But like i know i can make a lot of other stuff and like i kind of feel like it's a waste of like not really explored it absolutely. I think it would be really dope to like like imagine just like one day. Like a song billie eilish or something. You know like super crazy but like like i feel like. It's it's a reachable dole. Like i didn't even think that like marshmallow and dj snake will work with me and just like every time just like reach out and they always say yes. I'm like fuck it. I'm just going. Yeah absolutely is that. Did you reach out to them. Is that how those collapse started. Yeah like i met like met snake randomly in an airport. I would just ended up talking and he was already playing a bunch of my music. And i just told him was like we're going to make a coal avenue. It was like okay. And then i started talking to dylan online and i just told him one day. Like i'm coming to your house and like we're making song and was like okay and then I kind of forgot how the mars thing happened. Like i think he's a he's a giant marshmallow. So you know it's a little with that. Yeah i think. I think my manager at the time just like reached out to many were just like yo make a song with uptick and then like literally the same day. He just texted me. It was just like oh okay. Cool great well. How does you know. I feel like maybe. We talked about this and other podcasts. I don't even remember so we'll talk about again like when you're working and collaborating with other people whether they're big names small names i you have such a unique sound in your production like i think. That's that's one of my favorite things about your work. Is that here it and immediately. I know it's you i don't have to be told because i always take over the project and i i'm like i'm such a dick to work with because i i want control over like everything but how does that. How does that work. Because you gotta deal with you. Know other people's egos and other people's ideas like is it just that kind of thing where you just tend to sort of take the lead not really with the smaller. Labs like the really big coo labs usually l. star but like making a song and sending it over to them and they'll and they will be like okay I like this one. And i'll be like and then they'll send me something back and i usually completely change it and then send it back again. That will happen like a couple of times. And so we both like or happy with it. Like compromise a little bit and that's usually how it happens. I think. I think probably the thing i like to do. Most but it doesn't really happen often is just so like go and sit together in the studio like i got this This one track With valentino khan still is now And i think that one is the best example We boj's got into the studio like nothing prepared. I was sat there for like six hours. Trying stuff out and it just wasn't working and like we've already ordered food and we were really tied an hour just thinking to myself man like i. I just wanted to go home. And just one of those write offs. Yeah exactly and he was kind of pushy at the time like he was just like a member like like like. Try a couple more like like little things i was like. Okay okay okay. And i kept messing around and literally like out of nowhere. I just tried something random and we were both holy fuck like this is so sick and and it was kind of cool because we were both thinking like a certain direction like like like. This is what the song is going to sound like. And it wasn't really anything that we had envisioned but like it was really good so a didn't matter and i think i think de feeling is really great like truly working together. Yeah yeah and like you. Actually you worked through it like you hit that wall and then you crash through it. Which is the best feeling ever. Yeah and it's like you're making decisions together because it's like i feel what happens now. Allow the times especially with these like big coal apps. Like as i you both kinda like like sections. I'm like okay. I'll make the drop and then they're like okay. I'll make the intro and then you can tell like you can tell who makes who you know or who exactly. I think it's really cool when you're making decisions like over the overall track and like i think those are the best tracks as well. Yeah completely agree and especially like what you said a second ago about that. It didn't end up being whatever you both thought it was gonna be. There was like really the good idea. I think that's always the best to this. Is the same for you when you sit down to write a song. Do you already have an idea in your head because for me the more i like preplanned something in my head the worst. It's going to be the. I think the best things for me is when i don't have much of a plan i maybe a little idea of something to try but then within five ten minutes. It's totally changed already. Yeah like i think. I think like even not on just like on tracks in general like sometimes when well okay no. Let's switch back to collapse. Because i'm going to go off track but like if you work with someone and you already have like a really steady idea of okay like this is how it's gotta be. I think what happens. A lot is like for instance like sometimes you're trying to make a certain sound and there's just not working out and you just get frustrated or you're try and really steer collab- like a certain direction and the other person has a different idea and it just becomes dislike kind of clash like yeah like the way that when you see on an airplane and there's like a small kidnapped suit trying to like four's his arm and the arm rest both like putting by just want to punch the kid like yeah and like that's something that can happen as well as like i think for like coal labs. It's just best to keep an open mind and just see what happens. Because like i've been surprised a lot of times like like like a lotta times like work with someone and i'm just like oh man this is not going to work out and then like it works great Yeah yeah it's interesting. I mean the only reason. I asked the question the first place is because i think you do have such a unique sound and i was thinking about your sound. I was listening to some tunes earlier today. And this is again a super broad question and it's okay if you don't have an answer but the question i kept coming back to. What do you think you do differently than other people are doing because you're tunes the way they come out like. Do you think it's something in the mixing. Is it something in the sound design. Do you think it's something like less concrete than that. There's something that just makes you're tuned sound different than everybody else like. I don't really know men and sometimes it's like kind of annoying because like sometimes i'm like oh like a one make something that sounds like this or like whatever and you can't ya i can like there's always sounded like i mean like like i do think that's a good thing like i think for instance it's like like that's something i've been trying to figure out as well like like when i scroll experts on like attract like he can make simple hit by be like it can literally just be like a kick snare and hi hats like somehow just it sounds like i don't know how to hell he does it but like i guess i have that as well in like my own way and like like that's something like i do think is pretty cool but it's like a double edged blade because like sometimes like i said before i do want to make something like sounds sometimes i just generally try just just prediction purposes like just make something like rip off like like someone i like look up to and then it always kinda turns into like my own thing like i just never turns into like the perfect fit i mean do you feel like And this is gonna sound weird but do you feel like when you sit down to mega song. Do you feel like you know what you're doing if you know what i mean like. Obviously you're great producer. Mixer engineer sound always think i suck man every time i start a new song. I'm just like man like ice. Yeah and like everything. I've done up to. This point was an accident. And now i can't make music ever again. It's like after every song as well. I've i've lost it you know and like it's like i'm washed up and people hate me like i have this every year Like every year. My career is over. Like i think i've i've thought for five years in a row now i'm just like my career is over like no one wants to see me like no one listens to my music and then like like. I don't really know how it happens. But i think for the like for like the last like four or five years. I've had like one of the most played songs. Like every year. As i like all the festivals and i don't know how we like how he keeps happening and like every year. I'm just like man. Like i fucked it up like i've lost the ability to like make like good songs are then like playing. Okay right cool. Yeah i mean. I think that's just more of a as it's more of a mindset thing like because i feel that way all the time too and i think that has more to do with kind of just who who you are as a person maybe who we are as people rather than you know if your music is actually good or bad like i mean do you. Do you see that. This is like a little armchair psychologist. I guess but i mean do you see that in other parts of your life like were. Were you always like that even when you were starting off. Because it's like for me it's funny and this is like a classic artists. Dichotomy red is like insane. Overconfidence paired with like crippling like insecurity. Oh yeah like like. That's that's exactly me. And like i like switch between thinking. I'm literally the greatest person that has ever walked urged to just like you know sitting in a hotel room in miami crying. Yeah yeah reason why. I have so much trouble alive. The stuff is that unlike And it's something that i got from like my dad like i'm like x. extreme protectionistic s- like like has to be perfect but sometimes like sometimes things don't have to be perfect you know it's like sometimes you have to do like a little marketing thing or like whatever and like people from management hitting me up and they'll be like oh yeah like we should like we should do this tonight or something and my brain always goes into like no no no. We can't do it tonight. Because i like i got do this. And this and this and it's gonna take me like a week and then eventually you know like start giving it a try just like whipping it up in like health hours something and like putting it out and like it works the same. It's fine and it's like like a find really hard to to pick and choose what you put your energy in. Yes yes like like for. Since it's it's it's great to put a lot of energy into like a cool song or like artwork or whatever but like it's kinda stupid to spend like the same amount of time working on like a twitter post or something dude. I know all the time. Like every every fucking tuesday when when i released episodes of this podcast and i have to make posts about it. I sit there for an hour. Just like editing of two words on the post. It's the dumbest. Yeah i know exactly what you're talking about. Just just just in general social media so batman and like i've been on it now i feel like you just me. I'm sure it takes lots of work and energy but yourself. It's so good it's it's it's it's it's going great but i think like i think like for instance. I'm always really hard on myself. Like probably like a little harder than i should be but it's i have this bad habit of always comparing so it was like at the beginning of well. Well the beginning of lockdown but like somewhere in like lockdown. I like i like did this post on instagram. Like just like an example the app and it got like twenty thousand lights and i was just like oh my god. I've never had twenty thousand legs before and that was like every time i propose something like it like it doesn't get like over ten thousand lakes. I'm just like man like breads done over here and it's a it's a really weird stop process but it's just Yeah it's a devil man. Yeah it is it is i mean do you feel like how's your relation to it right now because like i said i mean you're you're very good on social media like i think you do it very well. I'm sure it's plenty stressful. Does it stress you out. Is it something. You've kind of figured out a balance with like stress me out a lot and it's not really like posting stuff as much like putting stuff online but like i think like like always just get really addicted to it like really really really addicted so like the thing that always happens is like i got to social media down like okay. You know what like. I'm just not touching my phone anymore. Unless i need to post something so i go on this slide complete break. I start feeling really good. You know like. I'm just not looking at my phone for like two weeks at a time and then i started looking at instagram again. Like once in a while and then all of a sudden it's like four in the morning. And i'm just like just scrolling. I'm not even looking at the stuff but it's just like oh man these like little releases of like dopamine like whatever and then like at one point i realized i shit like this isn't good. You know what. I'm taking a break and then like the whole cycle repeats itself again. Of course it's an addiction like like any other addiction. You know like yeah. Yeah the mechanism. It operates in our brains. Yeah exactly but like i think. I think that's the reason why like so many like you're starting to see like a lot of like really really big artists like just giving like an example but like you know a couple of years ago like like getter was like in social media like all the time at any kind of backed away from it like now. He barely posts something. And it's like. I mean like he's still doing really really well I like his music is doing really well. Like this doesn't really make that much of a difference but feels a lot better about it and they're happier man. I think it's just so easy. Especially if like stuff goes well for a while to get really just kind of wanted to change that feeling of like. Oh man like i'm going to get like more likes than this post and like i'm like i'm going to reach more people like it's like like it's a really a sense of like power anything but it's just i don't know like what it is like. Even that's why it's important it's competition and it's because it's the same way you know we're always so goal oriented and our careers right. It's like oh man. I played this festival in front of twenty thousand people. Like you should just be stoked about that but it's it's never that it's always like oh well you know what's coming up next week lake. What do we have that shit combined with the fact that obviously is a lot of us know at this point like social media is designed to be addictive. So yeah exactly yeah. It's it's too pryke. Because i think as as artists are deejays or whatever you know a lot of us have that similar thing of like. It's never really enough. I always have to be working on the next thing. You can't ever really too comfortable. You can't even really sorta enjoy enjoy a well. It's happening you know. Yeah yeah exactly. Like i think this thing classic like like you said like it's it's it's never enough type thing you know it's like when you get a nice car there's always going to be someone else. Like has a nicer newer car. I mean at least two. Here's what i'll say it. And then we put the social media thing away at least to me. It looks like you're having fun with what you're doing now like i like how whether it's social media post whether it some thai tea twenty second video you shoot on your phone. Whether it's you know music like full-on music videos and these promos where you're like producing short films at this point like i really like i can see how much fun you're having these ideas and how far you're taking them and how weird. It's getting like i love all of that. That makes me superstar. Ocht thanks man. It's like actually how that started happening was My my ex girlfriend was a really big fan. And i don't know if he know her but she really big fan of tricia pages. I do know who that is. Yeah yeah and and she was watching all the time. And i remember watching with their and i was like i was like how like. How can you watch this person. You know like what is this. Yeah like like. I don't like i don't to get dragged for this But like i was just like like she's so unintelligent and like it's just like she just spewing out like random thoughts. There's there's no i know what you've been your. Everybody knows what you mean like. I learned so much from her response like she told me she was. Like you know what like. I don't really know why. I watch it. But i've been watching for so long. And she tells me so many like details and stuff over personal life near like it feels like i know her and then like i started looking at like at like Pretty much like every youtuber or like whatever that like really famous and they're basically all just like like sharing this like really personal information like and like and like showing like how setup and like whatever and they're just all giving you that like like allusion of like oh like like even though you don't know me like you know me like like we're friends like not really friends but like it seems like your friends because yeah you have such a look into their lives and i mean like. That's not really what i'm doing it like. I'm not trying to manipulate people dick and there's like It's performative in a way but it is kind of like this new type of relationship that i think before we had things like youtubers and content creators and all that that kind of didn't exist like it's it's it's this weird sort of like super personal but also performative relationship and it's i i'm that way with people there's people i watch where i'm like. This is dumb. Why am i watching this. And then for like thirty hours exactly but like just kinda realized because like a couple years ago like like everything social media was like pretending you're cool you know it was like i know at one point like was trying to be like dj snake like they were like posting like in front of like a cool car like a private jet and like post a quote like this is just the way it is something that doesn't mean anything but like it just looks cool. Yeah and like like. I just kinda learned like these last two years or something like a man like really really like an unapologetic weighed. Just be myself. Spoo- like every thought i have online. I just talked to people like talk with so many people in my dm's and get this facebook group and like stuff now as well. And i just talked to like like everyone like the apple. Just hit me up on the dmz. In most of the time. I just answer and like like it all became really person. And it's like it's actually quite fun you know. It's actually have like a relationship with some of your fans one hundred percent man to have a little community again like do discord at all now like so many people have been telling me to get get into it. But i've just got if you got your thing going. That's that's another thing i've gotten better at. It's like i had people you always have deal being like. Oh you got to get on this like now before something something. And i've gotten way better at sort of assessing that for myself. Like i have discord and i love the discord shoutout to the discord. And it's this great little community but if you got the facebook group like i don't do the facebook group or you know there's like everybody's got their own system and i'm kinda got really tired of feeling like i have to do every outlet and every single thing that other people are doing and it's like it's like every year licensing new pops up man so like like you just can't keep up like everything like i think it just got to pick a couple and build your community there and like yeah have people shouting at me over the last year to get on clubhouse just shouting at me. 'cause they were like you do a podcast. It's all talking. You have to do it. It's dumb not to do it. And i just don't want to man like it's it's cool but i wouldn't like i wouldn't have fun and you'd be able to tell i wasn't on a made a made a increasingly now. We're talking like the same thing like like everyone like watches my stories and stuff like i. I get so many messages like everyday like like get on tiktok again tiktok and I mean like when video. And i got like because of my like instagram and stuff. Yeah and now literally like all the comments on my videos like for some reason like angry. French people like telling me like like why you verify like this guy just mad because you got verified. That's great like genuinely so angry. And they're all french because in belgium and like it probably trended here or something. Maybe it's like showing it to them because of some regional like gps thing. Yeah yeah yeah exactly. That's so good man. I mean. I feel like the tiktok thing is the other thing i've been getting better at is just posting shit. Not feeling like you have to make something new every single time right like i think some of the videos you do for instagram. Just throw that on tic tac and like if one of them catches that's great. Yeah i'm an you know. What like a couple of people have told me this before. And i've been really stubborn about it. But now that you told me i'll i'll probably due to. Don't let me bully you man. That's right now. I'm doing exactly what. I was essentially man people. I know fucking people say around you. Ask anybody that's going to be the first thing they say about me i. I don't think i've ever been called a bully in my whole life so nice you like. You're such a sweet person. Well i appreciate that. That's like yeah. And i like that. I like sharing that. But i don't. I don't always feel like that. Do you ever feel like people have a certain perception of you. But then like you feel differently. You know what. I mean man. I like i like always like i don't really know why but i just always feel like i'm such a dick people and people always tell me man like here. I says yeah. This is actually the thing though. I think the people who get that whether it's your mere million other nice people in the world like we're kind of secretly decks few people who are purely just nice. Yeah yeah yeah exactly. I think everyone has a strong opinions and evil thoughts. Yeah i think. I think it's just the way you like deal with situations and how you kind of compose yourself because the thing is it's like it's kind of how people say was that way of saying again like it's not it's not like it's not what you think is like how you act or something like that. Yeah yeah yeah i mean. Actions speak louder than words. Oh my god yeah so. It's you know that scenario that people always talk about where like someone standing close like the train tracks and you have. That thought like you know. Like like i could kill as easy. You don't do it. I think i think that same scenario happens on. It's on a much smaller scale. Like all the time like. Yes yes absolutely. Have you ever heard of the of the of the shopping cart. No tell me so. There's this there's this theory about whether you're a good person are not an. It's like i don't know if that's the exact name but it's theory that if you bring your shopping cart back after shopping to like the little area where all the other shopping carts are yeah. There's this like theory that that's way of knowing if you're a good person because there's there's no real consequences to like not bringing back the shopping cart like you could just leave it somewhere in the parking lot at like like no police officers is gonna come up to you and be like hey like bring back your shopping car like it doesn't really have any consequences but just like a little thought in your head of like. Oh you know what. I'm just going to like bring it back so i. The person who works at the store like doesn't have to fish it out of one hundred percent and i always walk through the parking latte and see the like cart in the middle of the lot and i always mike. Who is that astle. Exactly exactly. i always Thing that just proves that we're both lil angels. Hey hey i'll take it you know it's funny while you were saying that about like standing on the subway and thinking about them and i bet there's like one person i bet there's one person watching right now who has never had that thought and pass tugging boy. Yes it's probably actually most people Well look man. I talked you the time but i. It's it's late where you are A start wrapping this up. I want to try just just a couple. Quick things. I think people are submitting questions and i'm going to take a look at those as well but i wanted to ask you Just kind of like the first thing that pops into your head kind of questions. And they're very very broad. And i just wanna see. I've never really tried this before. I just want to see if it sparks anything. And if it doesn't that's fine. But i thinking about touring a lot lately because it's something none of us have been doing and something. I'm sure we all miss. Do you have the this is not the. What's the craziest thing that's ever happened. You on tour question is is. Do you have a memory from tour that you just think about a lot that just pops into your head a lot and a small memory may be like not even something significant but just something like plays in your head a lot like i wouldn't say like really really specific memories but like i had like allowed to tours i did with other people Like we're like must sty and gentlemen's club and and schism and stuff. They're just like lot of funny moments. And a lotta times. I'm just laying in bed. Like they do just like ran lee pop into my head and i get like really nostalgic about just like oh man like like every time just like man like i just miss all those guys like so much this year for sure. Yeah yeah exactly. I mean that's a crazy man like not to cut you up. But you know. I remember at the beginning of all this when you and i were in. Dc going that comedy so and we were both kind of talking to each other about what we were planning for the next year like before we knew the pandemic was gonna be the pandemic. And you're you know you're planning a whole life here. Gotta be crazy to have all that in motion and to feel like relationship not even career but like relationships are being cemented. And you're like building a friends and family here to have that all just put on hold. That's got to be a wild feeling man. It was like it was such a weird situation because like like you said like like a very concrete plan on what to do you know like i was literally about to like move to la like At a girlfriend and like dc at the time and like and like all this stuff and like with the pandemic like literally just like like all of that like ended. And i had this big like existential crisis like and at the same time i was like thinking like oh man. Am i still going to be able to do music. So like that's why i had like like three or four months where i was really like deep inside my head trying to figure stuff out but like you know i think like everything in life like it just kind of like like everything panned out you know absolutely but it was definitely a weird experience because like everything was kind happening at the same time it was just like oh you know like like this might be the end of your career and like you know like you've got this person that you've been dating for like time that ended as well and like you're probably not going to go and live there anymore like now get it like living in belgium like where i haven't been for such a long time and as just like all of a sudden you have like all these like questions and you know you like try to come up with solutions and they don't come to you instantly so like you. Just kinda have to like ponder on it. Yes yeah and you just can't leave your house so it's all you can do is like stu in it man like i completely forgot that like the first couple of months like yeah like i couldn't leave my house the first couple of months like like i just went outside like like walks down the street but like i can. I can even go too far. It was a man like like like this pandemic has been nuts. Like if you think about it so nuts man. I mean like you know fingers crossed. Were never gonna live through something like this again man. Yeah man isn't going to happen again for sure. Like i do not trust people at and we're back to not trust anyone. Yeah it's for sure it's for sure gonna happen again. It's happened historically before too right. But i guess i guess i'm just hoping that like all be dead by that time. I hope it's far enough down the road that i just won't be a because i don't want to do this again. Man i feel like i feel it's just going to be like oh man like we're going to save you from a next pandemic but here's a fucking nuclear war man like i think i'm getting picture of how your brain we're expand this is. This is the same thing why you can't be satisfied with the last thing is. You're looking for the next disaster man. That's amazing all right. Well speaking of all that i mean. What's before we go into some questions here like coming back to the states. Soon right you coming back. So i was like i'm not able to like Come back on like a direct flight. I need to go to mexico. I for like weeks. So i'm staying there. A nice little resort. Oh playing nice little vacation. Yeah superstock about it But i'll be back in la July first and i'm gonna be doing a bunch of shows and shit. So are you ready even all right. Is that the plan to like reestablish yourself nossa like during corona. I came to the decision. That actually belgium's pretty great so i'm just going to buy place here. I mean i'm still going to be in the us all the time. And if for some reason my my you know if for some reason reason i do that billie eilish collab- and i become like really rich and stuff you gotta get by. Then i would also get a place in the us. And then i can just flying between yeah one hundred percent man. Well fuck man. When you're back. I i hope we run into each other not to log man. I i miss you. I was the you know one of the one of the many pandemic tragedies for me was i was like. Oh he's gonna be in dc all the time like i could actually like we could make a new friend. I don't really make new friends that often at this point in my life and then the navin yeah man. That's so sad. it is sad man. I really do miss your man. It's it's legitimately good to see you. And i'm stoked that you know. Hey that all this shit is ending. But i'm also just spoke for you to come back. Yeah well we'll get some more burgers and goats at some more comedy shows. Well fuck man. lemme Okay so now. I'm going to mess this up. But i'm pretty sure well we've been chatting that people have been subjected some questions for us Okay yeah here's a here's a good one and this is This from dolgin. I hope i'm saying that. Right from sweden shadow gen He says he loves your old blogs he loves her skits and he wonders if you have as long as we're talking about comedy We went to a comedy show. The last he's saying. I wonder if you ever did comedy in the past or is that something you would ever look into doing which i was actually wondering to give you whatever. Just go into like you know. Make make a movie or make a sketch there like something. That isn't so music related. I don't know if i would necessarily go into comedy. A kind of happened really really randomly. I always did dumb stuff Back in like the snapchat days but only share with friends and all of them were telling me constantly like man like like you should just put this on your like public snapchat and stuff right. I never did. Because i was just like. Oh man like people are not gonna think it's funny and whatever and then doing pandemic. I didn't really have anything else to do. Like i really started embracing it. And i got to know rob like. He's this guy from from from belgium. Who makes a youtube videos His name is average. Rob shouts to him and we started talking and we did our first sketch together. And it's like. I was like random ideas for sketches. Like an even for marketing just like in general And i always like. I always wanted to do down so i decided you know what like why not start using it as a marketing for for music and we did and it work really well and i love doing it. It looks so odd man. I mean that lasts where you're like tied up in the warehouse like all that is i just watching. That was like that was fun to do. You can go but like like. I don't know if necessarily get into like comedy but like like one thing actually got interested in Is like just like acting like so much fun now. Like i got this like super randomly but does like dislike famous actor in italy star following me. Okay from like a netflix. Show in italy Haven't really looked it up. Exactly like what he's in but like like he's like like really really famous like eight million followers or something on instagram and he just really likes my my music and i started doing these skits and he started telling me is like man like like you should really like start getting into acting because i think you would be good at it and now i'm just kinda like you know what. Fuck it like la. I'm just going to do a couple of editions. That would be great. That would be really good. I mean there's there's a precedent for that. I mean we already talked. About like getter and dillon francis like people. We know have done that that you could totally do that. Yeah yeah exactly well. It's like. I think what the fun thing is about it as i would like music like the music itself like everything has become really serious. You know you're like how many streams is this get is struggling to get played at festivals and like whatever but like something like this is like literally zero pressure like achieve anything read. So it's it can be like okay this. This actually goes back to something. I talk about all the time which is like. Dj's need hobbies like creative people need hobbies. That isn't what they're creative thing is exactly that outlet like whatever it is whether it's acting or or you know art design for you. Whatever it is. Like the people get so focused on that one thing. And i think when you just do the one thing it it's so easy to lose track of why you're doing it to bring that back around again. It's so easy to to lose the passion for it and forget what was fun about it but for me at least anytime i do like i have a couple random side nerdy things like i think you and i like. I love playing dungeons and dragons a set aside time every week to do it. And it's it's a whole thing. Shout out if any of my group is in the chat right now but even that like which like half acting half playing game half just like talking shit with your friends but yeah making sir that. I set time aside to do that. I get so much more stoked when i go back to work on music yet. Yeah exactly like like. I feel like i feel like it can be pretty much anything. Because for instance like like doing coin. Like i started like started doing two things to get my mind off. Things like all my friends in belgium. State board render. Oh really good And i used to do with them. When i was like you know like like fourteen or something then like i completely quit and i started getting like during a quarantine and it's great like every time i do it. It just I don't know it just makes you feel happy. And the other thing i do is start playing dark souls like i'm really really really big dark souls fan Have you talked to jake about that. Yeah man i like to everyone about dogs so it's such a game at. It's so cool. Yeah well because jay kill the noise jake. I mean he's like I feel like he's like a priest at the dark souls church man jake. Jake is a dog so thin a man. He goes crayola but he liked preaches. About why it will help you in your life. You know but it's like it's actually true. Like i've never played a game that teaches these you so much like dark. Souls actually kinda does. Because i think like i think the same thing goes for a skateboarding. It's more satisfying with with skateboarding. Because you're actually doing it like which your body physically Yeah but it's it's like for instance and like skateboarding You can you can try something for like for like weeks or months and it just doesn't pan out and you think this is impossible and then like all of a sudden like a few months later or like weeks or days or whatever Depends on. I was killed your like all of a sudden it it it works out. And you have this like you have such a great feeling of accomplishment and you know like so much stuff can happen like you can hurt yourself and break stuff but it like teaches like i just think like like skateboarding teaches you a lot of really important life lessons and i feel like dark souls. Does that as well a weird way because especially when you first saw playing it. It's just it's so difficult. Like i remember when lima's die showed it to me the i like. It showed it to me when dark souls three just came out like years ago and it was like you're going to love this game like like this is right up your alley and i. I like when you start to game. It's instantly dislike really hard boss. I tried it a couple times in a row. And i was like li like i like. I hate this. Like level is so difficult. And then i tried it. I think forty times or something and i finally beat him. The and just that sense of accomplishment is just. It's just so. I mean it's it's the same as you in valentino khan sitting for six hours beating your head against the wall and then finally megan that push him like nope were staying in it and then coming out of it with a an incredible that same same feeling. Yeah i feel like. I feel like it just teaches you and this is gonna sound so cheesy but like if you just like keep going and keep pushing like usually. It works out so many times. Where i thought like i'm man like i've. I've almost quit music. Collect i think a fifty times even though on the outside like like always appears like it's going so well and there's like allow followers whatever But like i've almost quit like so many times and every time there's like something inside myself that that that i just felt like you know what like i'm just going to try like one more thing or like just going to try reach one more goal and then and then now might stop and then it always leads to other stuff on like it always works out and always gets bigger like i think. Do whatever you wanna do like once you just like once you stop. It's over you know like if you just keep going and even if it's baby steps i always tends to work out. I don't know how they comedy question and up with me giving out speech eh. This is what we do baby. What we i mean to put a period on the end of that sentence. You just said man. It's so many people always ask like how can how can i do this. You know what did you. What steps did you take to be successful in. Get to what you're doing that's always the answer is it's just you didn't quit. That's literally that's the only thing. I can tell people the only secret to success i've ever figured out for myself is just. Don't quit that's it. Yeah yeah. I think. I think i think a really good example is a is a subtropics like one hundred percent. Sure like i don't talk to him that much but i think he's been doing it for as long as i've been doing it. And he kind of went like radar for so many years and then like the last two years he just like he's one of the biggest acts and bass music. Now you know yeah. He kept added. That's it it's like a one point he just said like oh. I quit like that would have been the end of it. But it's like super impressive. Like yeah i and i love. That's those are the most inspirational stories to me. Humana i love that but look let's There's like way too many questions. I'm gonna do a couple more real quick ones. And then we'll get you out of here i have to Keep it short. Because i always just ramble along so i'll just know it's doing the exact same thing. It's a problem so we'll do. We'll do a couple just very rapid fire ones. This one just made me laugh. this is from a lhasa. I hope i'm saying that right. Lhasa is sixteen years old from germany and Lhasa lhasa says. I just love this question. How was your childhood and what instrument where you playing actually had a great childhood. Like amazing childhood. And i played the electric guitar and i can still play a little bit but not nearly as good as when i was eleven years old. Oh yeah i think. I knew that that's right. Because you're play ended on some of those rock tracks you drop every once in a while. Oh yeah yeah yeah. Did you forget you can play. Yeah amazing Okay couple more. Quick ones okay. This is Colin from los angeles asks call in is the best and most attractive manager. And why. I don't know man i don't know are we sure that he's he is the most attractive. I'm not sure i don't really know. I think if i was a manager i'd be more attractive. You would think yeah. I think. I think if you're a manager you're definitely more attractive. Willie oh thank you. Do you want me to manage you. I could do that. Yeah yeah probably kind. It's kind of weird because my manager at the moment is called colin as well but he's not attractive at all. Yeah it's what a weird coincidence. I mean it's a weird question to get in the first place and then for that to be true. That's a really weird coincidence. Yeah yeah exactly. He's yeah. I've i've i've talked to several female friends. And they've all explicitly told me like man collins cool but he is is not is not a good looking guy just kinda average. Yeah i'd say probably below average. It's not like it's not because he's taller than me that he's he's better looking. You know like. I might only five nine. But what i like. In height i just pure attractiveness. You know just just pure just just pure male musk. yeah. I'm very familiar with that. Musk my friend okay. Anyways all right. I think we covered just about all we could on that question. Yeah man i'll let you get out of here. A bunch of the funny things a lot of these are just people commenting on like all these videos and all this content. You've made that. We are just about man. I just love what you're doing man. It's it's so good to talk to you. And i'm really really hoping to see you soon. Man thank you for doing this. And barry figure all look willie and if anyone still has any really pressing questions just hit me up on instagram. And you can talk to your buddy mike buddy. I'm gonna let you go. I love you talk to you soon. Love you will the show set to great to have you back on man. I miss you. I love you. I hope you're doing good. And i'll see a soon for everybody out there listening. I hope you enjoyed that as much as i did. Don't forget apcs. New song hit with marshmallow and juicy. J is our right now on marshmallows new album. He's got a string of bangers out on monster cat right now and there's a lot more music coming so hit the lincoln the description go follow epic. Go see him when he's back on tour in the states which is very soon and go. Keep up to date with everything that he is doing. Keep up today with me as well if you so choose at willie joy or at back-back pot on all social media twitch dot tv slash. Willie joy. i'm there every single wednesday recording this show the one you just listened to you you can come sit in. You can come ask us questions. You can come participate in this show which is really really exciting and fun and we're going to grow that a lot more in the weeks to come also in the description in the show notes for this episode. You're gonna find a link to the back toback discord. You can come in there. Get more involved. Say hi to me. There's a great group of people we want you to come post your music. We want you to come talk to talk about what's going on in your life. Make our community more vibrant. And i of course am in there all the time because i am a huge nerd who is glued to a screen at most times of the day. So look that's it for this week if you're listening to this on released a on tuesday and if you're around tomorrow comma check me out on twitch i'll be there five. Pm pacific and i will be talking to my old friend foster damas. I can't wait. I'd love to see you there. Come chat with us. Ask some questions. It's going to be fun. All right guys look. I hope you're doing well out there. I hope everyone out there is is feeling are right. I hope life is good in that you're happy and healthy and the people around you're doing good. I hope you're able to you know. Go do something fun this week. Go get away from whatever's annoying you at the time there's always something right so find a little time to to give whatever that is the middle finger not think about it for a while. Sometimes that's all it really takes is just a little time away and then when you come back it doesn't seem so bad but Look i love you all out there. Take care of yourself. Take care of the people around you. That's it. that's it for this week. I will talk to you next tuesday for back to back. This is willie joy peace.

willie joy belgium willie australia willie island perth new zealand John ron opec sydney pat paul hogan billie eilish Dick heart attack san diego Mike valentino khan
221: Tisoki returns

Back To Back

1:45:54 hr | 2 months ago

221: Tisoki returns

"So this is back what backbackers this is willie joy. Welcome to the show. This is back to back. This is my podcast. How you do and how you feel and we are back another tuesday good to be back with you Guys look i gotta be honest with you. I gotta come clean. I've been talking all day. So you might. You might hear my voice fry a little bit in this intro. You might hear you might hear my voice crack. I might sound like a teenager. But i've just been having so much fun with all of you on twitch All the streams. I've been doing have been getting longer and longer because I just can't stop hanging out with y'all so it's really your fault if my voice cracks and i embarrassed myself in this intro but the twits streams have been so fun. I'm recording this. Podcast live every single week on twitch these days and that is how we made today's episode with my guest returning guests. The best dude to sochi is back on the show. We took your questions This was a long one. We went super debates to sochi third appearance on the show and By the time we get the number three man. There's there's not really a lot of boundaries anymore. There's not really anything that's off limits. I mean we covered so much ground in this conversation. You're about to hear but the most important part of all of this is that to sochi has a brand new album. That is out right now. On monster cat it is called. Oh one nine five three the debut album from to sochi and it is truly one of my favorite albums. I've heard this year. And i'm not just saying that. Because he's on the podcast. So he is one of the best producers that i know period. He can truly do anything and this album. Look the the title nine five three. He named it after the telephone code for the town he grew up in in the uk and a lot of the record. You know has that nostalgic vibe. It has nods to different. Uk sounds and just wall to wall the production quality on this album is pristine i go on and on but you're going to hear us talk a lot about it in today's episode so i'll let him tell you all about it but you gotta go grab the new album from to sochi right. Now there's gonna be a link in the description of this episode where you can go follow him. Grab the album. Keep up today with him. See when he's coming to your town on tour all of that you're gonna find the info in the description of today's episode. You'll also find a link to my twitch. That is where all of these episodes get recorded. You can come participate. You're going to hear in today's episode to sochi. And i took some questions from the people who are hanging out in the chat in the audience. It's so much fun to see your opinions and your thoughts and questions in real time you can come ask questions to your favorite artists and i will force them to answer them. And i'm doing all kinds of shows on twitch as well I'm doing dj sets on there. Every friday. i do a show called. Do it bang. Which is me. And one of my best friends An improv comic. Who runs a comedy theater. Out in. Portland oregon. He and i every single week. We are listening to your demos to your whips. If you're a producer you can come submit what you're working on in the back to back discord. We'll listen to it. Live onstream give you some feedback. Give you some thoughts. We're listening to you know all the new releases that came out this week and just generally hanging out starting the weekend off right. That's every friday at ten. Am pacific one pm. Eastern the podcast. I'm recording those. Mondays and wednesdays at Usually two pm pacific five pm eastern the dj sets on thursdays Look guys i'm streaming a lot right now and i'm having a blast i would love to have you come through. Hang out and contribute because you guys are really. What makes these streams good. It's it's not actually me. That's the secret but look enough about me. I talk about me but all the goddamn time. It's enough. I know i know you gotta tell me. I know it's enough but Today is all about to sochi so excited to have him back on the show. I miss him. I think he has a great perspective on what it means to be a professional in this industry to have a long career doing music beyond the fact that he's just ridiculously good at it. He's also got a great head on his shoulders And by the time you finish this episode. I think you might agree with me so look guys if you do as always i would love to hear from you whether it's on social media Shout out to everybody. Who's spreading the good word about this podcast On the socials. I'm at willie joy. The show is at back to back. Pied as always. This is a community based show. The reason were sticking around the reason. I've been able to do this for four. And a half plus years Is because there is such a great community around back to back around. What i'm doing so anytime you're tagging us in your stories anytime. You're putting up a tweet letting people know they should be listening telling other artists. They should come on the podcast. Just telling a friend when you see them in real life. All of that helps. I appreciate it. I'm always going to be replying responding. I love meeting all of you. You can also come hang out in the back to back discord. We've got a great community of folks there as well. I'm just grateful for all of you for you. The listener the person who's hearing my voice right now grateful for all the support all the love and i hope to give that back to you as much as i can for. Whoever's hearing my voice right now. I hope you're. You're having a good week. I hope you had a good weekend. I hope you know your life is is going all right. I hope things are good. I hope that you're accomplishing. Whatever you want to accomplish. Whatever goals you got. I hope they're in process. I hope you feel like things are moving that they aren't stuck if they are stuck. Don't get too down about it. You know we all feel that way. Sometimes it will get better push through it. I got your back. And i hope. This episode provides a little of that motivation as well. I think it and If not it's Definitely gonna provide some laughs. So let's get into a right now. Love you all. This is me end to sochi back-to-back lesko food. I don't know if you remember. But i think even the first time you were on this podcast. I was bugging. You like dude. You gotta make more shit like this. I don't know a whole album of it. Well right but like it took you a few years. I mean this is kind of like an intense way to just jump into it. I guess but like what is your your. Obviously you're from the uk man. But i feel like we never really talked about like what's your relationship to to garrod into to step in like those sounds like. Was that a part of your childhood at all. Yeah i think. I think it was because it was. It was always on the radio like that was. That was what i guess pop music. Woes doctrine was like craig david unlike shit like that. I think of the time i've been. I wasn't necessarily like realizing it. But then i you know i look back on a reflects on on all of this stuff. I grew up around. I'm like wow like. I did this thing where it was like. You can find out the the song that was number one when you were born. Oh yeah an upcoming project what it was but it was like it was a guard song. That's that's all. The uk was like pulp Bull unplayed as pulp music. So yeah i i think it just inadvertently inspired me without me even realizing it and it took like twenty four years. A real nice. What was it the kind of thing. 'cause i assume you weren't like listening to pop music heavy as a kid like other than you know. What's on the radio or that kind of thing. Was it that kind of reaction of like when you're a kid you like i pop music. Fuck that as corny. But then you sort of realized later that it's kind of like seeped into your consciousness of bit. Yeah it was. It was mostly just like fucking automate. It was mostly just like being in the car with my mom. I know even realizing that. And then like i said just just over time just hearing more more of it i was like okay i can. I can tolerate this as as i mean. I'm saying i can tolerate it. I was ten years old but like growing up. You know you slowly stop appreciate rather than just like what's on the radio. So i definitely i definitely think that's where it came from because there was no real other time that i was like explicit it on the magnitude i was listening to like uk. Radio when i was when i was like growing up when i think people forget or maybe people in the us don't even really know like when we talk about carriage in two step being pop music in the uk like it was really pop for a few years. They're like that was the hit. Sound like i don't know the equivalent in the us would be like you know. Like i guess like drake or somebody made a two step or a garrod saw it was on that level. Just just hello whiz. Because you don't you don't even realize it's happening to you. Know what was really weird to me as well as i think about what is happening to me right now. I'm not realizing. I'm gonna realize like fifteen years time and look i can go whoa. That's just racing humid humans way. Yeah oh yeah. They are man i mean what. Can you be specific about that like when you say that now. What's happening to you. Do you mean like musically what you're absorbing. We're just more a life sentence. Just everything like. I like an know. Another four aside one of these that we always get really deep but another another four by was like you can't remember your childhood right or you can remember key pivotal moments of childhood. But what am. I gonna remember this in twentieth talk. Yeah i i don't let reeks. You know it's it's super weird man. I know exactly what you mean so two things off of that. I mean like you said man. You've been here plenty of times. We can get weird red away the two things out of what you said. I mean you're talking about you. Know childhood memory is and all that and like you know specially super early childhood memories. I think for most people there. You can't remember a lot of like you're really really early childhood. You know the first few years but then they say that's you know developmentally that's like the most affecting times in your life like what determines what kind of person you are going to be so first of all that's just a complete migrate is like the most important part of your life. You can't remember all everybody like apple weird is that well okay. Let me let me bring it to the president. Then you're saying what parts what parts of our lives now. The like what's happening to us right now. What are we going to remember for me i. I'm curious about you. Because i think about this a lot for me. It's very random. I have like certain moments and memories. Their crystal clear in my mind that i can pull into my head instantaneously. But they're not always the important ones they're not always the significant ones. What about you. I mean do you have. And maybe you know for the benefit of the listeners. Let's maybe talk about like musical memories memories of in your career whether it's the studio or on tour working with somebody would ever. Do you have any of those that just in the background of your head a lot and you don't necessarily know why off to start you're gonna have to me for a therapy session. You know. i think you know. I think back to key moments where i feel like. I had a big accomplishment pussai but the same time i it just kinda old blood into one and i think that's that's the that's the thing that makes you know what i was saying earlier. Even scarier is because you're constantly told as you grow up. You know you you. Your brain is developed right. And you'll start remembering things more clearly but even from like a few years ago. I i like musically. let's keep music late musically. I don't even remember at it. Feels like that was like a million years ago. So i don i don't know r- like i've just been trying to like live in the moment as talking cheeses as dude. It's true though. That's that's cliches. That's actually true. Churn like yeah. The older i get mad the more i realized. That's almost you know. Maybe it's too far to say that's the secret to live but it really. You know it's like at the end of the day that's all we really have like. We're sitting here talking about well because we're sitting right we're seeing you're talking about like all these memories. We don't know how it works. Why can't why can i remember certain things. Why can't i remember other things. The only thing we we can be sure of is what's happening in the moment. Right like yeah. Yeah i don't know man. We got super did i. This was not what i was expecting five minutes ago. The future doesn't even exist. That no no sir. Oh only things planned his like like. I think i think of the future as a tangible line of events but when you think of it realistically in the sense of like now none of it exists right. Yeah okay so let's let's let's play this out though because there's certain things in the future. I'm pretty sure gonna happen like your album coming out right. Someone in the chat just said if there's no future how is their future garrod. That's true maybe it should just be present. I always thought that was funny. You know how there's like future base as like nobody ever talks about buys it wise it it cooled Nobody ever talks about past base. I'm way more into pass basis than future best. I think i think future bases so played out. It should be cooled. Paul you heard it here. First ladies and gentlemen clinton people who make future based feel that way at this boy man. Like john rene. Am's in general are so. I don't know people love categorizing stuff. But i feel like at least me. I've never understood that tendency. That like every new idea has to have this label put on it. Yeah it should be that that it somewhat recently and it was like that stuff should just be left for like playlist as and people who work at be poor to lie is. She shouldn't have the the genre that you making being the full front of your mind when going to making stuff because there's just no offensive. You know i never. I and i'm sure you can resonate this. Look we never go into anything being like. Hey we might on a couple of but like not attend. You never go in like making music. Can you like yeah. I want it to be exactly like this. It's just it's so redundant sizing. I think when when fans in like the listeners in the general public. Kind of get for that annette like. Oh yeah this is so and so this inside just you should just leave it up to the people whose job is to promote music robinson who is to listen to because then you just pigeonholing yourself. In the yeah. That's true. i mean it's interesting thinking about like you know you talk about the people who are paid. That's their job to promote music and you know and all of us as artists your we need those people. We need a whole team to kind of make the whole project go. How are you with relinquishing that part of control like over. You know the marketing of it. The presentation of it. Because i think that's something some people have a really hard time doing like once you get out of the studio. You made your songs you've got your is a. How are you with letting them go. And kind of leading people you know interpreted as they will. I wanna think. I'm good it. But i'm actually like fucking terrible just being candidate. Yeah i think You know. I'd mind works in such a way. Where if i see something. Or i think he needs to than the and i handled a record on management or or label. Whoever may be and I just i just need. I need to have way input on all my don full in a business sense because you know the lohman show of is on essentially employing these people to do it for does ultimately will imagine label. Situation is but yeah. I just i i get so i almost romanticize the idea of not only finishing a song but putting together in like a deliverable fence i. I never wanna just like finish song. And that's kind of it and again. That's probably my downfall. But i think some really cool moments. That i've i've created as well as much e you know the vendor that we're releasing music through whether it'd be monster cattle someone else i think i think in the long run. It comes out to be a cool thing but definitely during the time of happening. I can see why. It's just a fucking hassle. But i think it's just the flow of it. You know you go you go. Put your input in and have you heard by team because ultimately you're working collectively own a bit same time just go Overstep and i. I'm definitely still learning that after eleven years. It's always always a work in progress my friend. That's that's thanks. All of us are a work in progress in that regard. And i mean it's one of those things where you know. Yes sir you you hire people you find people on your team who are meant to take care of some of this step at the end of the day. It's your name on it and your face on it. So there is a certain amount that and i've learned this lesson over and over recently for sir that even like in in the switching over the podcast which and all that you know. There's all these new ideas and new things flying around and every once in a while for any creative to kind of just have to take that step forward and be like what. What is this about again. Like what are my core values. What do i really wanna put out here. You know it's crazy. I was just realizing pre pandemic man. You're like almost literally the last person i saw before lack down because you and i were you remember. We were out working in that. In that studio in san diego and i flew back home like two days after that and then and that was it. It was Yeah are are that was. That was weird. 'cause i'd i'd seen you like i wanna say like three full weeks beforehand when i when i did in washington dc line. Yeah that was that was such like you know if if the world has a son way of doing things that if fucking hayes me because it was it was just like i'd done that tool right. I was bang halfway through without again too. Deep on the on the puzzle stuff it was like the first show is great Headlines will and then off to the point of where every single council it was like right. These are the biggest shows psychobabble to like you know financially recruit more like put more money up front these militia to make it a success and we we like shifting like a low of tickets to like atlanta in chicago and we have like headline l. a. And everything i'm like. If it's kind of say the fucker where someone. Yeah yeah often that shore. We're up and i'll here. You know like level everything console. But we're just sitting in. North dakota just boggles whoever the nose like there's like a virus it's like taking over the world around i'd just moved to sing heights is like oh fuck and then the next day was chicago council star. Yeah yeah. I just remember the speaking of light what we cut us on. That was like that was one of the moments armando who saw in atlanta. Just being like fox. Like fox pissed. I i came home on his like. I said the halio is like your. This is gonna be good. Like i didn't off. That was when ever will was like freaking out and like martial law was gonna be like fulston. We drove some like north korea needs to like this random grocery store in downtown san diego. Nothing and we'll like holy fuck sciences. People were panicked buying everything man it was. I mean people people do they go. Do not If you're worried about someone you gotta look. I feel so i. But i someone who had to eat fucking expired pretzel bread because there was no loaves bread loud come on a mass a massive folk man man. What have you did. did you start cooking or anything. Has your diet bid and informative and longest time i i really crave. That's brahmin on. Obviously not with obstacle because everyone was buying like dried foods. I'm on my diet. Hasn't really changed I still eat shit I still have a really fast metabolism. Yeah i think the stop it. I i definitely Because you know we were we will home. Some are shot. I go in for routine of flake actually eating breakfast. Lunch and dinner and mike waking author. Reasonable time the stuff but then as things like start opening up and like more restaurants were more accepting and stuff it just kinda went back to how it was before recently. But i definitely had like a wake-up have breakfast. You'll great read this kinda shit another old because that was never you before. I was the a day kind of thing. Yeah yeah i just. I kinda just eat. Just eat when. I'm hungry because there's no real schedule as you know when you when you're traveling time it's kind of impulsivity just kind of eat when you the chance to variety. When you've you've been a night owl too right you're the stay up all night after a lot of times. Yeah recently it was. Like i mean i've done like a few shows here and there and But i was like going to bed at midnight which was like unheard also me but like lost night. I like started working on this This just like bootleg of a choice voices by virgil stayed. I stayed at like four o'clock at news the first time i really felt like spied selena. Just say fulke's everything else. Just welcome music. I mean that is on the man that that feel. I feel like that feeling never stops being fun when you really are feeling and nothing else matters other than that's being in the moment elected take where we were talking about. That's like nothing else. Is going to be more important or more fun than what i'm doing right now so just shut everything else out. I mean that's got a beautiful man. Yeah in a weird way. Just you just need free cell responsibilities. United like everyone's asleep dogs are asleep at any takeoff. Look off the dogs like this kind of stuff like yeah. Yeah the Definitely one of my. I think that's one of my favorite moments in. Why do those random buxom just like. You're fucked everything else i'm gonna just you know. Focus on this yeah. How often do you have those kind of moments. How often 'cause i think of you as a generally i and i've told you there's a million times but i think of you as a very creative person somebody who's always got some musical idea running in the background of your brain like how often do you just to get that. That burst of inspiration. And just you know sit down. Whip something out kind of without any forethought recently. 'cause obviously i think the main killer for that kind of a mental avenue say is oversee responsibilities and i think You know when you cool up in in looking is and and look off animals and you know being present in a relationship with your partner. Which is something. I've i've tried so as well during corinthian. It kind of deflects any any full for going into that almost like self-destructive mentality you just like. Thank fuck everything. Lost last night happened in. I would say like it happens where i wanna do it so frequently to the point of like i literally just be in here all day and just ignore the wells but realistically i think like once or twice a week already just kinda take up own brain on its on. Its also pockets author. That's great. Yeah but yeah. I don't know man. I think the world works mysterious ways. You know. And i if if i if i was alone and i didn't have an ecosystem around me of responsibility than i would. I would be doing all the time. And and i think at that point it would go unhealthy because there would be no way for me to draw myself away from it right. I like a lot the balance now. 'cause i can i can step away and can be like i've already done enough. I feel like i've accomplished on these something within my career within you know my artistic kind of crazy brain but then i also feel like i've. I've accomplished something in like doing the dishes. All hoovering the highest. And things like that so i think the balance is definitely definitely needed. Yeah i think. That's great man. And i think i'm while you're talking. I'm realizing i think that's how you you know 'cause what you're talking about saying fuck it to the world and shutting yourself off like that's also sometimes it's needed to be creative but it is sort of by definition selfish act and then what you're talking about now is like finding value in non selfish acts like whether it's vacuuming a house or taking care of an animal. What what ever it may be. I think that's that's just a good balance man because you got to have a little both. Yeah i i say this law and i'm very blessed and thankful to to be in the position. I'm in where i done. Ready have any other responsibilities. I cited like my my family and my my career my music career never as you never like work like a normal job but like i think learning that myself from going through those times myself and realizing that you actually need a fucking like put my head on work on a balanced is ashley. Healthy semi life made me. I think it's made me appreciate it bowl again. It's just finding that fine line between late just being fucking crazed crea an actually being a presence. Human being lull. Yeah yeah not losing that creative spark at the same time read. Yeah do you look at anyone in our world. Any any of our appears like i was thinking about. This isn't like who are your musical. Inspirations but more like who do you look at anyone who does what we do as a life inspiration. Sometimes i look at people who aren't necessarily maybe they're not the most successful or maybe they're not. Maybe it's not just their music draws me to them but there are certain people were just like man they have it figured out and there's certain people who wear i don't necessarily want to make their music but i do admire their life. You know what i mean. yeah. I think grown older. I've definitely a lake admired especially admired people with kids. Yeah So i've always said like i don't get me wrong. That will know. Incredible fucking produces an incredible musicians and stuff like that like the fundamentals of will. I rarely aspire to be in wiry look up to was people like Like jayco kill the noise. Yeah he's on my list to fucking jose like accelerate. Sara lee must die like nab the thing with that is. It's like devil goat like families. Then we'll go. we'll go. You know lives outside of music. They don't have as far as i know they don't have jobs outside music but the able to Balance everything puff be a present father figure an but still be successful music and was really funny to me is a lot of these kids right. Who Sorenson the pie lifestyle and move towards before and just like almost reckless and just egotistical and rude and will this kind of stuff. They're not loss for long. But people like lee. Jake and jose old of that curry's have been over like twelve fifteen years. They have longevity who fucking teat now to see them be able to do that while simaltaneously raising kids in having a functioning family and just being great people in general. That's that's the most admirable thing anyone in this industry can do. I agree man. I mean that's a great those three people that's a great list and Yeah jake for me is always high up there. Of course all of them. I mean it's interesting. When i think about all three of those names to think about reinvention too. You were talking about how they've managed to know not only keep it balanced but have these really long careers. And i think that might be a good way to tie it back to you and to this new album. Not that it's a reinvention of what you do but it definitely i think is is a strong step in a new direction. One that maybe you've only kinda hinted at before and you know maybe we talked about some of the the childhood influence of garrison to step and all that early on but why now for this album was it. Was it a conscious choice or did you just of notice like a similarity and a lot of stuff. You're making marr- i think is is really come from the place of like you know. When when you're constantly touring you are surrounded by dislike large bass music ends. You obviously get influenced by the stuff that people claiming People people making and you got cool up in this almost like vacuum of ogle make this is so and so plays i sounds good live and and having kind of stripped away with you know the pandemic and things like that. It just allowed me to look more inward to music. I've kind of always wanted to make but never had the chance to. I mean i've i've made. I've made things like in the same vein before but it's never been like a a full. It's never been like the full front of my mind to actually release them and make like a whole moment around it. So i think it ultimately just comes from being absent from touring an absent from live shows and just kind of realizing like sure. I wanted to make the heavy music and i still enjoy making heavy music but realistically wall. I'm stuck at home. There's no shows happening. No one's playing any shows. I don't really want to just. I don't wanna just make heavy music. I wanna make stuff. That's like more personal to me. you know. And there's a lot of people who will deny that and say that they don't just make music for shows cap fucking no no this. No no one wants to admit it at but it's absolutely fine so admit it because that's just the world we live in now you you wanna you wanna make a song be like this'll fucking slap live unless completely okay but i think people will just you know why i wish people do is just look inward and just be honest with themselves and just be like. Is this really what i wanna to make and if it is fuck yet mo- polity but like someone i look at and inspires me. A law is a a producer named hekla and recently he's taken this shoop religious fuck and beautiful melodic direction while retaining some heavy live. Show feel nothing not so. I think we'll just look inward well sir and especially you know if you do that inward look and you come away saying no i actually do want to make this heavy music and all that i agree with you. That's great but even with that to use heckler as an example. It's like okay. Well if we're gonna do that it's still we still need the personality and it right. We see the perspective. And i think like he's a good example of a way of showing like you can advance this form. Even if you're sort of doing it for the live. Not that this is why he's doing it. But you know if you are doing it for the live show if you wanna see the crowd jump up and down to it even in that. There's so many different ways to be creative and to push it forward and i think you and i share the frustration. That many people don't do that. You know because you don't have to. Necessarily you can keep a touring career going by. Just kinda you know running the sausage through the machine again. Yeah i think you know if it's not broke fix it and but you know another thing that i've i've been adamant on on saying about this album as well it's like it's not even changing my signed. It's no even me trying to move directions as an odd estelle all move away from like a heavy music or rewrite myself in some more of like a mainstream area. It's mostly just like this. Is what i was feeling that mormon an i i made all in quarantine you know. None of it was like demos from from before everything was constructed like straight up during like the pandemic. Yeah that's how. I felt that time. And i'm gonna put out in the world would like some cool visuals around it and stuff that we've been working on and that's that i don't want to be like oh bradley's changing Going a just fucking one eight e because with some people do that before and it's ended up good name names but like it just doesn't it doesn't go down well much. I wish it would be. I think just being true to myself. The music i wanted to make not moment i mean like i said i. I started this fucking leg last night and it heaviest fog. But that doesn't mean that it's gonna be like. I'm going to release every song on. Never say die for the rest of my life. You know like everything is always changing. And i think has not issued ridicule just adopt all still retaining some of your own personality. I agree man. I think what a lot of artists i. It's funny because i think a lot of artists feel similar to what you just said. But i think a lot of people will stop themselves like even if they make something different they just they'll sit on it or they'll put it out under a different name or they just you know. I think a lot of people get held back by by the fear like almost the weight of what they've already put out you know for. Did you feel that at all. do you feel that. I think i think the more the more diverse the bow and i you know. I think someone asked me that as well. It's like how you feeling about releasing music. That is different from like what you normally kinda just pause and it wasn't it wasn't like a poll kassir into on one level. I kinda close like i. I don't know i'm on the the i've seen at least is pisa i've done in the past. I think i've told you this before ball our that. Ups done in the past the loss track on every ep. I try and make like somewhat different right. Not not so base laying. I mean with with the dim mckee was the Record which was pau. Never say die. Ep was like a song that gave you. Level sandwich was like kind of jackie conference wide kind of all. The funny thing is is all of those songs. Do the best out of those e t.'s. that's interesting none of none of the none of the head i mean. Obviously the heavy songs get picked up by likes deejays and played live This kind of stuff but unlike a streaming like revenue popularity sentence. It's always the kind of left field law songs by cool them. The do the best. So i was just like fuck it. I'll just do a whole album of those kind of songs and see how it goes and if it flops than it's still a real representation of how i was feeling a time but if it does good than happy aids yeah absolutely man is funny year your friend. Or whoever. you're talking to asking you you know. Does it feel weird to release something different than what you did in the past like because when you really break that question down. It's almost the question should be like. Does it feel weird to not do that right. The yes sir. i'm in. Hey man. I'm i'm for being a civil by it. Just caught me salk 'cause i i know that this is that right who release the same kind of music all the time and you know. It's very similar to the pasta release because they know it works that lane. And that's you know good at faranoff like best best fucking. Six public is unbelievable. Is like trump up right. Every song he puts out is absolutely smash so very similar. But you can tell that it's him read but there's nothing wrong with that. I just think it's just two different type of jesus is i think one is kind of staying in line with you. Know what they know what we'll let fans reading love. The other is kind of just like me. Where i'm just gonna do whatever and just say fuck it. Yeah yeah well. I think you know with you. And with tramp of both. I think both of you guys have such an authenticity to why you do right like with tramp. It never feels like he's kinda just on the treadmill making something to you know it's always so weird and interesting and yeah you. I don't know if you heard his last album. There's some really interesting stuff on there. Like bits would not expect from him some like deeper jungle stuff five. Yeah so sick. Yes i so dove man. I mean so this new album. I mean you're talking about you. Have ideas for visuals to accompany it. I'm sure you're you're thinking about you know an album tourist. I'm sure that's probably already in the works You know coming back to live shows if this is an album made in quarantine when you weren't thinking about live shows at all how are you gonna approach doing live shows differently if you're gonna approach doing them differently now. I initially the question that we've all been lie in my account like talking like confused by is because we know right and and Now it we're we're in a situation where you know last year. We actually turned on a lot of things. Because i was doing a headlines call but then what happened was toilet in gary books. But everything from gloucester is like a reboot so we have this kind of grace period of like me. Not touring reina. to kind of figure out I don't i don't wanna change anything about the shores. I would ideally want to dislike know. Take some parts of the album and flip them remixed them into lake cooler more energetic. Sections of the shore share I don't even know if an album tour is going to happen because like it's not. It's not tora bora music. And i think that's kind of like the best audit i can look at it from my fucking business. Kaplan i can look at it as essentially two different ends. It's the touring which is like a noxious pie in. Music can just run with that and do that and incorporate some kind of crossover from the album but then the streaming album side of it is lives in his own space and that's generating like popularity hopefully and new fans and people from different climates. Who wouldn't have heard of me before i. Those things are kind of going on simaltaneously We've kind of been thinking. Like how the fuck are we gonna make it happen. I don't think it will. I am clinton. You're okay with that. That's interesting man. And again. I i like the cause. That's an unexpected answer. I think most people would be like. Oh you know. I made this album. That's different than what i'm known for. And you know now we have to. You know we have to go fully and on this tour. We have to change everything and i kinda like. You're you're talking about this just as it's like a record of what happened in the moment right. Yeah the the. I think i need to take a conventional route of good day in way back in the day of like for these album told the album. Harm new album release albums allow doesn't work for me. I think my mind works to foss to be able to have that. Be a tenable goal and it works for a lot of people and again on No bashing it because you know it's great success business model but yeah for me. I don't know i think I also i also would just hate to like this whole tour and it'd be like his album. It's like an hour and it's just like the kids who normally from the heavy music on it That scares me that and that's something that like plays on my vulnerability is like going out there being like i. This is a true representation of meat. I made in check out. It just doesn't do all. I think that would be the scariest thing for the tory aspect. Yeah that's fair. I mean yeah maybe there's ways and i'm not saying you should do this but i feel like some people have tried to do interesting things with that like i was. I just told the story on the podcast. But i saw a like a two years ago now i guess i saw mr karnak open for himself and he like he opened. He had like a live band. That was like alive like funk soul bad that played the opening set and then he was like oh gave give me five minutes. And then he ran up to the deejay booth and did like a full-on mr carmax. It it was. It was kinda stick man. I feel. I don't know maybe there's a way to. I don't know maybe you can find some you know dark dark after party spot to do the album cuts you know. I'd love to play like a like author hours. Try like i think we trying to set up in in a couple of months book. That's that's i mean that's cool to do it. I just i just don't ignore high receptive lights. The dub step cried would be too. Because i i really only place alike. The dumpster crowd. Some reason i'm always build on lineups with dump step eagle how. Why thankful wrong fucking. I love it. And i'm so appreciative. Grateful for it but we. I don't know how that would work. I mean maybe it'll just remix Bans just play. Though is on some drops in there. Yeah yeah easy. Easy thought may give me ten minutes. I literally i swear it. You're still. I've told you this before. You're one of the fastest workers in the studio. Never said man. It's were you always like that or is that just something you kinda put in your ten thousand hours to be able to do i think. Always noah get i get too fast and if i have something i mean of the responsibility thing five something in my brain i just say self-destructs very selfish kinda way. I'm just say fuck out front with this. And i just get it dawned on. I'm like okay what's next right. I obviously not like. I'm not making music like the level of like fucking like jacob kolya or like fucking someone who could countless thousands of one song but just to get that kind of thought my head. I definitely like said you know executed foss because i'm already been thinking about when i i sit down at a computer. Unlike aiba mobile and dawn you know. Yeah yeah that makes sense. I mean someone in the chat saying just make like a second version of the album for the the shows. Spank all death edition. I'll vip's just fucking sullivan kings over the whole thing. Just replace it. Just have him redo all the vocals on the. I'm going to drop manner takes. Let me see that would be read. But yeah you know usually usually i don't even go into like names and titles and stuff but i thought the the name of the album was you know owen nine five three and that's that's the zip code of where you grew up telephone area code. Oh telephone area code right you guys got the the long telephone numbers over there and fucking is coach have have led under. Yeah of course. Yeah why there were you thinking about where you grew up a lot at the time like i. Obviously i see the uk sound connection. But where you also thinking about where you grew up at the time. Was that like in your head while you're yeah. Yeah i think like you know as you will know personally you know because of me and such site for whole lake immigration visa situation has been completely road because you know the pandemic can. I've i've essentially been stock in america's twenty nineteen and. Yeah i think i i really just look inward. It was along the same lines of why i wanted to make songs was because of what i grew up on. And and you know how. I was first exposed any kind of music throughout my childhood and my teen years. Yeah the name the name just kinda clicked. You know i mean it's also great paseo because no one else has a single or album and afraid that's true but you know all sided meaningful version of it was just like. That's that's really where i can sit and i feel like being a bit homesick and and they away from that kind of ecosystem and not area really just made me appreciate an look back on. I was brought up on. So i think it will. It will highs together pretty nicely the signs you know the name of the album and and i was going to name it like a few of things but it was just like it just didn't feel like authentic it didn't cheesy this is like i've never been like good at naming things it's been so it's been like a big hit and miss the naming things especially with like a heavy stuff but this is the first thing i'd like put my name on like yeah this this works flawlessly. You wouldn't have it any other way. Yeah no that's actually perfect man. Because i think it's really you know this is maybe going going deeper than maybe you originally intended but if you think about that idea of you know you being stuck here in america away from home and then i think there's this kind of like a melancholy feeling the that runs through a lot of the tracks on the album and i think you. I don't know like that to me. That kinda context yes. I think that increases my understanding of the songs that are on the album which for by the way for the people in the chat. The album's not out quite yet but by the time everybody listening to this as a podcast here is that it will will be out which is crazy thing like you were saying you've been doing you know a bunch of interviews and press and other stuff leading up to it is this the biggest kind of quote unquote promo campaign. You've you've done for anything you've ever put out. Yeah and as really fucking. Yeah i oversee. This is probably the most relaxed thing i've done in in the whole campaign will enjoy the man. But yeah i it's it's so weird Going back to the melancholy thing. I think it's just like i'm so thankful and blessed and appreciative of being why being able to to live in america america and met my incredible fiance and air and go dogs here and just i just. I'm just very thankful for my life and i. I didn't wanna lose sight of where i came from. I think that's that's kind of like the ebb and flow of of the feelings throughout the album. Miss the fact of like. I'm so happy and lucky to be by missed the uk icon go by the uk. I'm stuck here now. i'm feeling i'm feeling resentment to woods. You know the us some golden unreason. Because i'm stuck in a way. Just it's such a such a weird feeling that not many people get gets a you know understand and i think with that in mind. I make a product of this. Just capture it because in ten fifteen twenty years you know when i have an ship however have kids we live between here in the uk. It's gonna it's gonna feel effortless but just to capture this moment. In time i think was already really special Jared that makes perfect sense man. Funny because i think you had the flipped situation of a lot of other people we know who kinda got trapped in whatever their home countries. Where you know like. I'm sure you know. I was the first like corinthian guest. I had on this show when we started doing it with zoom and at that time you know. He had been back in belgium for a couple of weeks news. Like yet and i might have to stay here for another month. It's crazy then. He ended up having to he was stuck there for a year. And a half and fucking mike crazy man i mean and still are like i just saw anna luna was posted like they just locked down again in sydney and she's been there the whole time you know it's wild man. I mean this is maybe a weird question to ask but do you feel like a camaraderie between artists from countries. Who have all kind of collected here because this is where the industry is. Yeah we have a. What's out group we. We'll get we'll get like very mixed advice from boulevard in respected visa lawyers right we'll just Put it in the group. And i will. We'll show person sandwich will like. It's kind of a bad thing. 'cause it's like i have definitely pistol might immigration. Law by being like sewing source said this. Why can't i do that like because when someone tells me something i'm like i just wanna fuck do it and i go message. Sang like Might type of visa was eligible for emergency embassy. Appointments which is anything that doing the uk right now Than not doing like routine consular services. So i i all busy windsor. A man's lawyer. I was like why the fuck on flights the uk like right not an chief telling me some different because every single immigration lawyer is risk of us in different ways. So yeah is a good thing. I think having joint sentiment of like a lot people who are stuck stuck outside you know we can sympathize with one another but at the same time it's just it's just a massive inflammation pissing off every man. Yeah i could totally see that just turning into angry angry group jet on look. I have a meeting tomorrow and i'm looking forward to that. 'cause i'm gonna stick because i mean we don't have to go too far down this road but like the visa situation for everybody. It's so complex and it changes all the time right. yeah Like depending depending on who's in power depending on what like it could be year to year a law gets passed in everything you were working on is kind of invalidated by some new procedure at. Yeah it's and it's also heavily based on way from as well. I mean the the us embassy to to give classification to to people who who may not have heard about it before in order to get working visa for america to live and work marica. Obviously you have to go through rigorous processes application once. You've once you've got it you know. It can be anywhere between one and three years off so that time has expired when not that visa is expired. You have to visit a u. s. embassy outside of the us to renewed it a lot of people going through right now is they can't renew it because they the contract lab the country because of travel restrictions all the embassy in that home country is closed ran while all the people from uk experiencing is the u. k. embassy or the us embassy in the uk is solar backdated because of all the europeans as well. They've just decided since fuck it. We're not doing any routine visa appointments and is emergency early so yeah it's just like everything changes but like there's been people from like like michael uptick from belgium who've been able to go to the. Us embassy in belgium. Ns people from australia. Who have been able to go like a j. p. lincoln and laura like sippy all those people have been able to get you the skyline but it just is so temperamental independent on whether embassy is in your own country and ryan. Yeah it's just it's just honestly like a no disrespect to anyone who works in immigration but just a fucking mess. No one could have anticipated to get this bad. You know we told like it's gonna be a couple of months regardless of the pandemic chilly embassy appointments urine hof It still still faulk. Say yeah. that's that's the latman. It's it's really a lad You know again hearing all of this and tell me. If i'm reading too much into it but i again i feel like it really does give me context for for the new album like because again. There's there's some of that like yeah melancholy and there's emotion but there's i dunno it's like it's there's some of that anger too. I feel like. I think you know through everything through worldwide media through and i'm not like some crazy conspiracy theorist but just the prefaced but through through everything you know regardless of gender race sexual orientation political believe everything. That's just so much like so much information to a a single toss has to digest an when that information is important to your own wellbeing and yours situation it just becomes a lot to do with regardless of what it's about and that's where i felt a low frustration was was the travel stuff and things like that on as as the thousands of dollars on a dime. Play anyone else situation but to to lead the album. That's that's where a lot of that kind of angst came from us. Yeah that makes sense. Well let me ask you this because this is something. I always wonder about so when you when you're frustrated when you're angry with that kind of thing is writing music for you a way to kind of work through that. Can you channel that into music or is writing music for you a way to kind of just block it out for a while or is it. Both i sing is both and i think i think music is Shouldn't be because it's quite an unhealthy. Wakes you put. Music is complex therapy. Some whether i'm like listening to making it and i don't know the prolonged effects of all of the emotions that i've been through in the last year off How that's going to affect me. Yes to call them. I mean like we said earlier future doesn't even but but said night. Yeah i just. I you know i don't actually know if it's my way of dealing with it or my way or the goring it. I think that's very. I mean it's a good question but it's making me think she'd. I've never really liked about the reason i ask is because i i think you and i have both heard plenty of artists. Say you know. Oh i wrote this song. This album. When i was going through this really hard period and it was my way of dealing with it and i exercise my demons by writing this song and i don't know maybe i'm just like an asshole but for me a lot of times i'm like. Is that really what happened or did you just kinda write music because you're good at writing music while you were having a hard time and then if you weren't having a hard like for me because i've never been able to write music and feel like writing. Music solved any kind of problem for me. Like i let feels great to do and i love music kind of more than anything else in the world but as far like this idea of like using it to actually solve my problems. There's a there's a part of my bread maybe a big part that thinks like that's not a real thing i think i think i think it helps to understand the digest that had space a year. In when you when you go forward and making music. I don't think it's the bill like you know like you agree with I definitely think there's influence over. State minister say anything rising pissed off. You're gonna you're gonna write more aggressively you know paint more aggressively and same kind of thing with music Guitar as well. If if i'm pissed off i'm fucking playing. It saw believe me. I'm gonna fucking drop the mental right ever but at the same time. I don't think that that's a solvent. Those feelings and i don't think that's a that's a way to like. Get definitely to get out of your system. When maybe i thought maybe it's even away now that we're talking about maybe it's a way to kind of reflect it back to yourself. You know. lay a leg. You know if you're angry and so because you're angry you write an aggressive song. Then i yeah. Maybe it hasn't solved the problem. But maybe you can listen back to that aggressive song and sort of understand like process your emotions better. You know what i mean but then does that make it worse because you viewing embodiment of you being pissed off. I i mean maybe it does i. Maybe that's like up to the individual but at least for. I don't know if you're like me for me sometimes. Like i'm not aware like i'm not self aware enough in the moment to be like. Oh i'm really angry right now or like. Oh i'm really insecure right now or whatever it is and i only kind of realize it later and maybe kind of just arguing against myself now but i feel maybe maybe maybe that reflection thing is a way to kind of lock into what you're actually feeling and going through and maybe that eventually helps deal it. I don't know man that's a good point that's true. I i definitely agree with you. But man we don't know how we got that far down the rabbit all on that I mean do you think here's a question for you. So you know you made this album in corinthian no-shows going on you're sitting at home is that is that a rough mode for you like do you have to have something to do all the time. Yes and nor. I think i think the stock because i was. I don't know if you remember but the thought it was collective thing like everyone's streaming everyone's lessons supplement their income away. The everyone's tweet light. Okay make one song every day. Vinexpo stop the cow. Everyone everyone everyone knew that. That was a facade in a way. So i think i i never really delved into that. I kind of just kept the same pace ways. Gone up. Because i i knew for that. You know what what comes up. Must come back. And if i ramped up my workflow and i made a conscious effort to to push through with like doing all. They do that the time where i would be like. I'm over this and it would just be like two months of silence. I think rather what happened was my schedule of the freed up so i was able to just to do normally do just a bit more focused and i think what really changed was my focus on doing things rather than the way i did things and that's kind of where it came from i. I didn't sit down. I mean i like young to make an album. And i i definitely saw done and it was like i should probably do that because i got nothing else going on but at the same time like when it came to realistically i didn't wake up and be like i need to get xxxxx done today. And i need to do this at this time list. I just kinda just how. I would normally do it. And i think that's why that was never really a period Thing around twiddling my thumbs. Like yeah fuck doing not Well yeah because i mean again you've heard me say this. Do bunch of time. But i really do think of you as somebody who just always working on music like us just kinda mighty in my mind you open able to just like if you're not doing anything else like that's kind of the default. Yeah i mean why. Why do you think that is like are you just a workaholic is that is opening up. Able to just like is it like playing a game. Is it just like a fun use of your time. What is that finger. I'm i'm a worker. Hollick by. And i think mrs gonna get deep again. You know we always get the which is the best. I think it's the fear of not being good enough on not succeeding in something that i've essentially put every hour. My life into that is so unhealthy. And i completely understand. But i'm like. I said i've been trying to like kind of figure out where the balances with life and things like that itself but this is this is all i've known and having a computer in front of me and headphones luckily where i'm at now able to have like a dedicated studio but even before it was like i'd always just having a lapse overhead. Because i i was. I was just scared of failure and you you. His many people who are in our unfortunately in heartbreakingly had to give up music to to survive and so work another job and that has never been an option for me. I've i've i've always just pushed through whether it be of my own. Projects will welcome with other people on that project so the of things but yeah it really just comes down to fair and i feel like i'm this is like a life changing and this is me and i feel like on a step ahead every time in my mind in some fucked up way if i stop that moment is gonna catch me. That's why i'm just like twenty four seven just my brain is always on. I'm like always just deteriorated my mind mental health and all that steve. Yes it's all. i know. this is all our. Yeah yeah and i. I relate strongly to what you're saying. Man 'cause it's been the same for me to there's you know obviously like you're you're a smart guy. I'm a smart guy smart enough and we go. We could go do something else right like we're not capable of doing something else but there is something in it. It's been the same for me man. I always figured out a way you know whenever the the low moments hit whenever the dips in the industry. Come you know you all you kinda do have to be i. I don't know if i think of it as being a step ahead but you always have to be doing something and and for me you know the second you see that that wave cresting or whatever. Whatever metaphor. I don't even know what i'm talking about. But whenever you see it on the horizon like oh this is going to be a problem spot for me it. My first reaction is like all right. Let's let's go to work you know like a There's other option. It's like file flight. You just go fucking fights every time you can't run away from it i say. Yeah that's that's that's you know. I think he lost also fuel the people about same question. I think that would be the same sense of is the is just like the the complete just basic ways just like. It's you've got to do it like if you if you want to. You know i. I try and tell people who like sometimes like message me like i wanna do like music full-time but i don't know whether stocks and i don't i don't normally like i notice to that a few times i've been like each school fucking and it's gonna fucking song you're gonna you know you might. You might have to go on unemployment. You might have to like move back in with your parents. You might have to just fucking live in front of a computer for twenty seven base. You really wanna make it happen. Life is social adamson. Mike recently like life is so ten for men older. It's just like nothing. Nothing matters for like nothing. Nothing is for sure and yeah i. That's kind of where. I've i've kind of gone late mentally as it's like. Fuck it casper like who's who's talking like who actually has like within a hundred years every single person you've ever interacted with is going to be dead. Nothing's gonna exist anymore. A new generation is going to come and do things the way that they're to do things for the anytime Site fuck it. Just do it. It's like right not. Yeah exactly man i. I loved that we keep coming back to this idea of living in the moment and figuring out how we can put ourselves more in the moment because he what you're talking about you know everyone you know you're going to be gone. Everyone you know is going to be gone. And i'll take that one step further to talk about the idea of legacy right. Because i think you and i both know so many artists who are concerned with like i have to leave this legacy. I have to change things. People will remember my work. And i think about that idea and i'm like well they're not gonna remember your work two hundred years from now you know like they're not going to remember anyone's work hang. Yeah we you know how many people from two hundred years ago do we talk about their music. It's like i count on one hand. You know literally. Yeah so for me. Even that idea is kind of false at the end of the day. And it's it's really more about no man. Are you enjoying what you're doing right now. Are you with people you value. Do you feel like you're contributing something and may make yourself feel good while making the people around you feel good whether it's with your art or music or whether it's just being a good person like what else is there at the end of the day. Yeah legacies a weird one because everyone everyone has this like pretense a headache. Like i wanted to be remembered off rye die and i think that's cool goal to work towards but realistically. Yeah like you said it's all about you know i mean yeah you already said it. It's all about who you around what you're doing and stuff like right now. I think it's a cool things to work towards indefinitely saying that. You know it's good to have in your mind because if if that drives you to do things and then yet chased legacy but realistically sign with anything i might just be a allied so tell yourself said just keep going. What was driving you when you started getting into this leg of you. Can you think back to when you first really started. You know to sochi is a project and you're making your first few too soggy tunes like did you. What kind of goals were you thinking about. Was it any whether it was legacy. Your weather was wanting a career like somebody else or whether it was just loved the music like what was driving you back then in our dropping dropping of high school and not really having anything else in mind. But i wanted to do look people may say like oh when i when i graduate from college or university i wanna be a doctor would be available. I didn't even go to fucking college or university. I just i just new music is like i. It's so weird round as an adult on legs said the very naive and almost dangerous situation that i put myself into. I was just like. I just new music. I knew i wanted to do and it may have just been very you know egotistical and also naive again the same time Myself going to do and again like it soaked for like she is and you know grinded through it and i think that bad just put more of a fire at my boss to just succeed with There was never any like. I never wanted to be like anyone else i never i mean. Obviously i looked at other people and so they were doing but ultimately at the day. It's just. I didn't really have a choice. It was just. I didn't like i remember being in high school. In like the the people who you know just for laughs the people who helped you choose which like college coast you want to go into do tolkien span name. They were just dump. find it. 'cause i don't wanna do anything i didn't have any interest in anything else are yeah. I think it was just not an are. I'm not going to sell produce. Music for fucking i wasn't is us up. 'cause my parents had sex. I don't think there was just kind of go. Me and i just ran with it will. Yeah because we covered this. I think on probably the very first time. You're on this podcast. Which by the way for anybody in the right now. Anybody listen back to this later. You gotta go check out the other two amazing too soggy episodes. That have already happened on this podcast. If you want the whole superhero backstory but shit. No because you were. I mean you were playing in band like metal bands even before that like music was always a thing for you. Yeah i mean. I i went to. I went to performing arts school. So it's just like live music and painting enjoying and acting drama the doctrine i think they call it. I said this to someone else yesterday. Fucking wit i need. You studied drama at school because now when you hit drama you'd think of light to fucking dick on each other. It's just a That's true where you it's funny man. 'cause i didn't go to a performing arts high school but i was very much doing the same thing i was. You know trying acting. I was trying music all that kind of stuff. And when i did go to university and when i first went there i thought like acting was going to be what i was going for until i got there and saw like what real actors were and how serious they were about the craft and kind of realized that like oh. I don't love it like these people love it like this. This takes a different level of dedication. And then for me like you said i was like. Oh well the only choice is music at this point. Because that's that's the only thing. I feel strongly about the only thing that i can sort of. Just fall off the map doing you know. Yeah yeah yeah you know what's funny is. I never really liked actors not not. I'm reflecting on that time. Because hey here's the thing right his His a weird weird little pile right. Yeah when when we when we go to a live show or we listen to like a dj makes the radio. So i can done by truckin. Dj zinc amiga. three name. right right. Who is who isn't who isn't like a professional. Dj you. Chris is it right. And you're like all that transition was shit or yeah. That's job to lotto ever thinking about active. Hey i i'm not sharing like some sort but as as a professional you criticize your cross actors job is to be someone else. Yeah so kudos. Fucking really i just. I just came into my head to say one hundred percent. I think i mean i. I'm just a podcast nerd. So i listened to you know comedians and actors on podcast all the time and i think that's absolutely a thing like people can kinda get lost in the characters. They play like the ones who go super deep in it. You know that kind of thing. It's their whole life Yeah i think you can absolutely lose who you are in it. And i think as the public and i'll tie this back into music like because it's the same way people who sort of like put famous deejays on a pedestal. You get this idea of who. Somebody is based off of their work. That might not have anything to do with who they are as a person you know a fucking twenty twenty exposed that shit. We're we're seeing lengthy of that. Which which the the more the better for me like. I'm bring on all of that shit like but yeah i mean i think actors have that even worse because you know we think about whoever it is brad pitt or george clooney. Like we're not thinking about who they are as a person we're thinking about. Whatever our favorite movie of theirs is you know. Yeah it's the creative industries definitely a weird space to be in. And i think that's why i really try and stay authentic. I don't. I don't wanna make like some project is in. I mean hey during the row put me on salary. Work on. It is for the yes. Someone's someone's like facilitate vision with me. Possibly i think that's kind of just wanted like all over the places like i don't wanna be some like manufactured fucking rich steroid juicing fake tan superstar. I am just just the we kid who just talking just make music. And i think that's that's what i wanna be. That's special gives me solace in an in house me sleep at night because i know i'm doing the best for me in my situation. Yeah absolutely man. And that's that's such a great realization to have. I mean okay so i i. I usually do this a little later. With somebody in the chad. Just ask a question. I think is really good and kind of relates to what we were just talking about. yet kid. Brian wants to know any advice. For artists who are worried about the future of the world and the country it can be hard to imagine building a music career when the world is so crazy. Right now. Which i think i mean. That's first of all kid brian. I love that you're willing to go as deep as we're going right now but i think that's a good question man i think that's i kinda wanna flip that question a little bit to two more be like can we as people working in dance music which like especially based music that kind of thing like there's not always a ton of depth than a ton of meaning and like deep ideas in base music right but is there a way we can you know can you. Can you have a message. Can you party with a message. Can you be involved in. Do what you wanna do in have fine and still feel like you're contributing something. I'd love to hear your thoughts on. This is a two part state. i'd say for like two to build a career. Situationally is already hod on given the pandemic and things like that. But i think you've just go look towards the sun in the sense of like we have the internet in those kids in. I'm i know way from Or your situation. But there's kids in light war-stricken countries who who getting like bombs. Just just like the worst fucking shit happens is people Still able to make a success all music because of the internet five. I think rather than you know. Walking outside and looking high you can Make a career way you wa. I would just say. Focus on line. United because i love people have access the internet and a lot. More people have access the internet than probably doing your media area. Obviously with again we've situational. There's more opportunities like if you're in l. a. and it's like oh you wanna come through like a writing session or whatever you can be there inciting minutes. So it's very different but f- astonishing something really grow something from the ground up. I i definitely think you on. The internet is is so important these days because that's ultimately what music his No-one really sells cds anymore. The physical the physical side of it is much abolished unfortunately And his whole on streaming. I think regardless of where you are. I wouldn't let that play on your mind too much in the sense starting a career. I just just fucking running online. Yeah absolutely and i would add to that to that. You know if you are worried about sort of the dark times in the world right now. I think rather than worrying about whether your music is affecting that or get. Don't get to in your head about it because really at the end of the day like all we can do and i think there's something you and i were talking about a second ago. Brad is like all we can do is be a good example like i think the best way you can if you want to do music and you want to be in this community than be a good member of this community and you know 'cause we have plenty of bad city people in this community already so if you wanna make a change. I think that's the best way to start doing. It is like do the work. Get good put in your hours. And then once you get in here on any level whether it's a the tiniest level or the biggest level you gotta you gotta take care of the people around you you gotta comport yourself well and you know it's don't don't worry about the world like worry about your little sphere and if you can make your little sphere better than you know if enough people do that that's how the world gets better. You know hunter yeah you just let it inspired you away and you know. You never to like devalue someone situation but you utilize always have in your mind as well like it could always just be was and a lot of people would find like not as an excuse to like. Do anything in this all well. Those appointed on their core like like homework and so in sar job and all. But like if you like. I said before if you really wanna make it work you'll you'll make it work regardless of anything that's happening outside of of yourself. Yeah it's again. We started off the conversation about this like being the creative career path. Such a weird you have to find the weirdest balance of being totally selfish and totally self less at the end. It's impossible impossible balance that we're always trying to strike. But i think the closer you can get to it the better. You're going to be for it. What are you. What are you listening to right now man. What's what's exciting do you. What's catching your year right. Now whether it's in based music or anything else like anything. Recently kind of rearranged your brand as far as music goes yeah will and this might be like a almost like a self endorsement is not but that my my my like my best friend from back home. He used to make lake dance. Music went by the name. Oh what good and we are not. He's he's just hole. One eight and i think just really embraced here. He is on start. A new project called pocket unlike. Psc and has had that that project in the in the few months since you launched. It has had more success than won't good. Emma did so that he really inspires me and he. He actually did some work on the album with me as well He's he's listed on the as like a credit or no credit but you don't like the back end stuff but yeah so His story's really inspires me and just seeing how he you know. Regardless of fan base size alive or mean binding people wasn't it wasn't like headline eighty. Ceo was like a massive laws but just from what he came from was able to switch off and do him offensively. I think is really inspiring bookshop. And he's my best friend. But i just said i wanna i wanna stay it again for anybody listening because i think that's there's something in that you know you said. In a couple months. The project saw more success than he had seen in the past several years. Just by virtue of taking that leap you know leaving behind the baggage starting a new name new style. Whatever whatever you want to say. And i think that's so admirable too because i think so many people get you get so married to like either the history of the songs you put out or you get your identity so wrapped up in. Whatever you're doing right now. It can be really hard to step away from it and jump off the cliff again. You know and i think there's something really admirable in that and then to hear you say that. Yeah it it now. He's seeing more success than ever. That's that's great man. I think more people need to need to understand that lesson. Yeah i think. I think for fist on a project as well. You know i mean. Obviously he had he you know he had some ability beforehand with his previous product With done a couple of records together and stuff but like you. And i for example or a point where we can essentially very blessed and lucky to be a position where we can essentially to the folk one. Because you know we can. We can text message like any within fucking big. Dj's already on good towns like stopped played out or wherever like is not really like frost gun. Fullwood night i use austin like sense of you and i respectively As not like a showing face kind of thing people already know von as people already know like what we've done within and that's kind of a cool moment of wear wear for louis will has been really cool for me. At least is a good friend to see is He he kind of melted insects. The the base succeed so there wasn't much like I'm not saying that. His music was cookie cough but like he definitely tried to fit in a son lane and it because success let doug wrong is a few songs that have done well but boy within three months. He's already texting like sucking. What's not unlike on poor robinson's manager really loves music. Unease like all of that has just just because he took the initiative to step out of the box and just do it in his away. And i think for stalling projects. That's a really admirable way to go just being authentic from the offset. Yeah 'cause old other people around you will see that they'll see that you're being genuine the not trying to just make fucking bang fit in with the sun cry because is the most off-putting thing ever and you can just see this brandon pus. And who is branding denouncements. He now louisville offensive. The whole instagram is flawless and the music is splice loops and shit like this. Like yeah that that that just that it just disappears into a sea of thousands of the people trying to do that. And the reason why louis in my opinion and other people's opinion as wellstone's are is because he said fuck. You just going to the same thing i was saying earlier. He just did his own music he does his own. Aw as well. He's getting really good solid recognition for that. The there's something about because i think when you're starting off right you kinda i mean we all start off trying to make stuff that sounds like the stuff we like but then some people just never get beyond that you know and it's because there's that fear right of like well who would as a dj at least it's like who would play this or like. What audience does this appeal to. And i get that fear like we've all had those thoughts but then you're absolutely right the second you can step away from it and just be like actually i don't care doesn't matter all play it at my shows that i that i will have because i'm making music i like you know i. It's that kind of confidence and self belief i know. It's this maybe a little woo. But i feel like people can actually feel that in the music the same way. We were saying that people can feel when somebody's just making cookie cutter stuff. Yeah no. I don't think we were. I think it's i think it's completely by on because you can like as a general listener as like a consumer of music who has no idea about music production or anything that goes on in the industry side of it you can just you can just fuck until you can tell when you listen to the radio but you. You already know you're like the song was on the radio has twenty right is on. Nobody knows anything wrong with that right but then you hear something that was a a record cooled hotels alisa by hammond and i heard it and i was like on the radio. I was like holy fuck like this is insane and sure enough are on spotify shirt. Credits is just him and you can. You can just tell like so released as well. You can. Just tell like yeah. There's definitely a discerning factor way. You can just understand it from A listener perspective as well. Yeah that's a great piece of advice. yeah in kid brian. And the chad come with the banger questions was asking. You know any advice for artist trying to find themselves musically and saying that it can be you know overwhelming and confusing especially at the start to to even know if you're carving out your own sound or not and whether you know these things you're trying out a good ideas bad ideas and i think that's a great piece of advice putting yourself in the position of a listener and being like. Is this something. I would listen to like. Try to remove out of it nothing. Nothing happens as much as managers and agents. Npr companies will need to believe nothing happens. Like fos in the music. Industry is just you know kid. Brian is right now. Is just the fucking sake of it. And i wish i could sit here and tell you over to be rainbows and unicorns. But it's just gonna be it's just gonna be like don't shit. Concrete is just gonna gonna mate with respect. It's just gonna fucking insult for now are like but that's the beautiful it is because grind through that and make it through that you know you're meant to do it and you know that. Once that happens people will stop being like arcade. He he's been at this long enough for you know. Did this enough times. He's called for himself and then that's when more people will start listening to abs- on yeah. Yeah yeah yeah. And i mean you got a this. It's true for anything in life. Man you gotta make mistakes the first time around. You gotta go through the hard times. That's the only way you can have. Somebody tell you shit like were telling you sit right now for a million times but until you actually go through it and learn those lessons you won't you won't understand it in that same way you know corner. Yeah yeah. I'm gonna ask modified version of this question. Somebody somebody asked What are your favorite types of tracks to make. Which let me let me bounce off of that. 'cause i wanna ask you on the album. Which has allowed of these two step carriage. Sounds we've been talking about how is producing a song like that different for you than producing you know. Say a heavy dub step song or any other kind of song like is the production process. The songwriting process different for you to focus on different things. Yeah i think for the heaviest off overseas. It's a mode leaning leaning towards like sound design more heavily I'm over the years. I've just gotten so used to just doing sound design. It's like second. Nature even dislike finding samples. So yeah it's definitely different as as opposed to like the guard stuff. It's it's more about. The colds vocals the overall. Feel of the track and the heaviest office bangs. And that's it you know again. So many people wanna pop facade like is meant so much the world like an tops like false narrative with just a fucking dope step saw all the day. We all know that it's just don's music man. That's not to say that. I mean people might execute me sign Don's basic dozen doesn't have feeling or emotion behind it but win it's like head a dub step you definitely telling us allies. It's you know you're coming from a place over then thinking this is gonna sound sake live. Which again is is nothing wrong with with feeling glad and having those thoughts about music because ultimately the day. If that's what you wanna do do it. But in terms of the writing process. I can guarantee you every single cost new rights heavy music or dub step police modern day view on a call at bro steph. Anything thinks about look first and foremost. Yeah that makes sense. Well how about for how about for working with vocalists for you. What's the what's what's your process. You know when you're bringing somebody in we were talking about you know. There's there's real emotion in this album a lot of these songs. Are you know about either heavy topics or just emotionally charged subjects. I think that's something a lot of people don't understand maybe young producers don't really know like what's how do you work with vocalist. How do you how do you kind of get to like that kind of intimate place with somebody where maybe you don't know them that well at the start i i can write. Lyrics needs to but getting older. The thing that really attracts needs to look Focus is is how they feel and the lyrics today right and how they portray a story and you know there's been a few signs lawyer i've vocals back on like i just done resonate with the someone's tolkien by like being on a beach. You'll like stuff. Like that. And i just i just don't i stopped me so you've been on a beach with dog beach but for me at least in in the way the iowa Is i liked. Hit fest story. And if i possibly can resonate with it. That's when i'll go forward with working with vocalist united weird like way of doing things. I'll never sit down in a room with a was to be like. Yeah that's right about this friday. By the i. When i when i have a vocalist feature on my song and this is maybe why on like super selective with who. I have a title feature on my song. Is i want to fully understand the concept that they are in an had. Come to that mind. Often listening to instrumental music. If that clicks and boom is the danville doesn't if it doesn't work out if it doesn't work it just doesn't happen nine. I just don't allow it too often. Pasta pasta point and How do you find those people as it. Usually you reaching out to a vocalist. Yeah we get pitched like from like other manager teams and stuff sometimes or it's maybe would like through a friend or yeah it's it's mostly when my someone will know someone or you know that kind of things on that's kind of i find you know where i connect adults a yeah. I think it's just all malicious boils. Down suggests walton vision is off the top rating instrumental in that way right and lee online. Yeah and like leaving space for their interpretations not trying to just make them do exactly. What's in your head. Yeah i mean you. Hey whether it's a it's a on the tile it's a feature or it's listed as a collaboration however you know the the machine of the music industry wants the tile it regardless you collaborating with some Saw whether they were really have ten percent input fifty percent ninety percent for whatever you have to you have to put your ernie go down and be the foot's ness dealings and vision based off of what they have heard. You do completely agreed man. i'm. I'm really excited for this album to come out i. I've heard it already. You know. I love it. I texted you that but man. I'm i'm stoked are you. How are you feeling about it coming out this. I mean debut album right. I'm no i've never been of. I'm it's been a long time common. I mean like lay eight months working on the song and then another eight nine ten months working on the planning and it's like rollout and stuff. Yeah i'm just. I feel like i've been in labor and i'm just like ready to talk and give bus unjust and let it let it run. Its course and have a flourishing childhood and grow up on like streaming services and just live in its own world. You know people can go back with. He can listen to it. Wants to hates it people. Can you know listen to every day for like. I'm just happy to be able to be in a fortunate enough to be able to put something in the world. It's like assist beautiful man. Let let your baby go off into the world. I think that's the best attitude you can have about it. It's yeah it's cool. You're working with monster cats who. I can't remember if we talked about this last time. But i feel like that's a it makes sense to me you and monster i. That's a good pairing. Yeah and i've never really until myself. My team months gets even everyone that really that really elevating labeled like the next. Because i've been known for just like ons music mike music for games. I think that which absolutely nothing wrong with it. I think it's sick. It definitely caused selves as the pioneer or not laying. Yes the taken. A mole like progressed mott route lately As you say even like the the releases the of done land those who might credible. Yeah just just so good and you know mostly as a whole thing have sought a incredible group of people working for them and such a reach with within that connections and things like that. So yeah. I'm i'm very limited. Very glad that they they really understood division where we're able to facilitate it and we were able to collaboratively walk along things so shoop odds now. Yeah shout out. The master came and they have. They have such a great team over there. There's a lot of people over there. That i i like a whole lot. Yeah it's good to actually like. I know we tax now in them. It's to catch up man. Thank you for doing this. Thank you for coming back on. Always i mean i'm around you back on for a four five six seven drop me alive do man we gotta do it Is there anything else i mean. We've we went all over the map on this way else. That's on your mind anything else you want to get out there before we wrap this up I think that's it. Just darn darn things change in my whole career to to be a different process. I'm still gonna be making is still going to be released. No kinds of music are. That's kinda all app says. Just enjoy the albums. What is listened to in its full let it let it flow and on yeah regular scheduled. Programing of showers on binders back soon. Oh yeah baby never stop. Never stop it but for real. The the album's phenomenal man. You did really good work. And i hope i hope people listen to it for a long time and process because there's really a going on there. I appreciate that low Absolutely buddy i love. You is good to see you. Likewise brother thank you. She time the hope to see you in person soon. Take care dude. Mr get a.

garrod sochi willie joy uk john rene chicago council fulke craig david lesko san diego atlanta fox hekla drake clinton Portland annette oregon armando virgil
218: Felix Cartal returns

Back To Back

1:54:42 hr | 3 months ago

218: Felix Cartal returns

"This is back. Yo what's up backbackers. This is willie joy. Welcome to the show. This is back to back. This is my podcast. How we doing out there. How we feel and it's good to be back with you. I hope you're doing well. I am recording this on a saturday afternoon after a bit of a late night You can probably hear. My voice is a little shot. But we're gonna work through it. Look guys today on the show returning to the show Man we had a good time felix cartel is back on the show. He's got a brand new album out right now. Called expensive sounds for nice people guy. That's a great title. It's a great album and I'm not the only person who thinks so. He's got a couple platinum singles off of there already. I told him this in the conversation. You're about to hear but he really feels to me like he's just really dialed in the felix cartel sound even more on this release and if you happen to catch his first appearance on this podcast you already know Felix cartel just a treat of gentleman to talk to so as always. There's gonna be a link in the description of this episode where you can go grab the felix cartel album. Follow him keep up to date with everything he is doing. Go do it. He's the best and while you're there of course you're gonna find another couple links The first one and perhaps the most important one shall we say is the link to our new twitch channel. If you've been sleeping under arrack if you've been away from the podcast and you're checking bag in. Maybe you're you're listening for the first time right now and this is news to you. Look back to back. He's now live on twitch. All of these episodes. I am recording them. Live and i want you to come be a part of them. Every monday and wednesday live on twitch. I'm recording these interviews. And if you wanna come hang out in the chat you can actually come participate. You can ask questions questions to my guests questions to me. We do a little. Qna at the end of every episode. I'm really enjoying sharing these conversations with all of you in real time you know. Sometimes people will ask questions. I hadn't thought of. We're just have really interesting angles on whatever we're talking about it can really affect these interviews in a positive way and even if you don't wanna participate i mean it's just fun to see this happening. Live not to mention also on my twitch channel. I'm going to be doing some. Dj sets very soon. And every friday on the twits channel is my new music review and demo drop show called. Do it bang. Where every single week. We're just trying to figure out you know. Do it bang but what makes music bang. We're listening to new releases each week and we are taking submissions from the audience of your music producer. If you've got demos whips or even released songs that you just want some feedback on you can come through the chat you can send us links and will listen to it. Live on twitch and We'll give you our thoughts. I've been having a blast hanging out with everybody on twitch so come through and whether you're able to make the live streams or not. You should definitely also come and join the back to back discord man that is the backbone of this community such a good group of people we would love to. Have you come join again. If you're a music producer you can come share your music. There meet other people who are working on similar stuff thinking about similar ideas. Come share your memes. Come talk about what's going on in your life. Everybody's welcome so come. follow me on. Twitter joined the back to back discord and we will be best friends for how long. Oh yeah forever look guys. Today is all about felix cartel brand new album from him is out right now and this one was a long one we went on man. We just have a good time when we get together. This one fell like it goes in the vein of classic back to back episodes. I mean we talked about everything. He cracked me up like once every two minutes. It was kind of astonishing. And i think it's gonna have the same effect on you. I hope you enjoy this. Shout out to everybody who has been supporting the show tuning in listening every single week. Now that i'm recording two episodes a week on twitch. I mean i don't know i i might have to start dropping some extra podcast episodes here and there to what do you guys think you let me know. I hope you're doing good. I hope you're having a good week as always before we start the show you know. I just wanna support the people who support me. Who support this podcast. So whatever it is that you're working on this week whatever goals you're trying to accomplish whatever you got your mind set on. I'm sending you that encouragement that positive attitude. I believe in all of you out there. The people who listen to this show You already know the most attractive most intelligent people on the planet earth and I think you guys can do whatever you set your mind to and for now. Enjoy this episode. let's do it. This me felix kartal back to back lesko fruit. Okay first of all without looking wendy. How long was it when we last talked. How long do you think it was. I almost checked before talks. But i so this is going to be home in. Has it been q. years it's okay. That's actually a good guess. I thought it would. It's been a little over one year. And i thought it was less than that like jesus year i feel like i guess more than i think. Or something because of yeah. Yeah i think when we when we last talked. I in may of two thousand twenty so it was like a couple months into lockdown and We had just switched over. Doing zoom for the podcast. And all that kinda stuff. So i think we were all just processing. What was happening. Yeah i am i. I couldn't remember if we talked about lockdown. Step or not so. Yeah that's my two years. I guess i think we talked like very early but it was still when we were figuring this shit out like. I don't think we knew it was going to be the long haul yet right. Yeah oh yeah. oh yeah. that's the best thing the best that's the classic podcast question. What are we going to get started. We've already got you on tape but no man so this is a question. I'll tell you this in to to the new album. Which is that when we last talked. I think you were being sneaky. You were already working on what was going to be this new album. But i feel like we didn't talk that much about it. Yeah i try to not. I'm like always constantly like between. What do i share in. What do i worked on quietly. Helix like like the twenty twenty twenty twenty one take feels like you have to sort of like do both like you gotta like have be putting content out yup and i kind of think it's fun to like. Save the big stuff and like surprise people with it because there's got to be a little bit of like there's gotta be a little bit like. Oh man i didn't see that coming that's like that's what makes it exciting to follow artists that i like at least so i. I try to do that a little bit. On some level yes no one hundred percent man. I mean it's it's interesting because we're in the age of content production right and there's a certain mentality where it's like now you got to be in front of people all the time posting every little thing you're doing but then you know for you and i think you do a great job of that like you're very active. I think when we'll get into all the action and all that. But but but no i mean for you. Is there a way you strike a balance. Is you know when you know. It's a bigger project. Do you try to protect that information. A little more like what. What's the balance for you of sharing versus keeping something to yourself. Do you think it's ready. Yeah i think like for me 'cause anytime there's like a new thing that comes out. I think there's a new thing every three or four months like you gotta get on blah blah blah. The new thing you gotta get on Club i never went on clubhouse you know how many people told me you have to get on clubhouse and it was like every day for three months and then i literally haven't heard about it one day since that period And that's fine. I'm legged if it works for people like i'm happy for them that they liked sounds and value in it. But i think for me. It's like i try to just realize like just someone saying i have to do. It doesn't mean you have to do it and might cake is more like rather than i think. A lot of times people like here by new thing and then just think it's the thing that it's like popular for so take a great example of that like oh are you on talk on. Mike doesn't seem like would dance on tyler. You ever see me dance. My thing is. I'm like oh i'll look into this thing and if there's a way that i i can do it. That feels authentic to me. That i'm on board but if i can't find like that angle for me than i usually just skip it. Yeah i mean that makes sense so okay. let's just do. It was the angle for tic tac. That like why and not other ones. Well it definitely it was sort of. I got on it early. As like. And then i didn't really like it. And then kind like kept distorted going on here and there and then starting to find content. That i like it was helpful. So just following people auditing algorithm a little more. Like catered to you and then you sort of like see the ways that it could be used but i think for me. It was like i kinda thought. The app was dumb. I was like. I'm just gonna treat it like it's dumb. Says no no offense to talk about like it is kind of like i like. There's this very like someone thought of a thing that second and then they just post it. And i don't really feel like instagram stuff. Feels like that anymore. So it feels very spontaneous. Yeah and i like that. Because i think I think like creative should be a balance of like you have big projects that made you work on for years and then you have like things we ask this idea. And i'm a throw it out there and maybe a desert thing and if it doesn't then as one right. I love that you said that men because i think you know if we think back to all of our favorite songs maybe even favorite songs that you've written of your own i mean isn't a lot of it. You know the ones that just like came to you in a flash and you don't know why and you just throw it out there. Yeah it's sad you know you never know if it's gonna be the one that you like worked on for for six months the one that you worked on for trailer like one day you know Yeah and i think that's kind of like. I feel like i was reading listening to this. Podcast recently. I think we did. We talk about seth godin last time. I'm always listening to south dakota and we talked about a few other people. I think i was. I listened to back like half of it earlier today. But i don't think we talk about seth godin You know seth godin for anyone who might be listening back later. Why little summary. Yeah he's just He's kind of like was with. He was email really. He's he's an older guy and he's got much ted talks and his his like take now with books and stocks is just about like creating or and like to not be distracted by like any of the bullshit that prevents you from like shipping. Your work basically. And i love that. It's very grounding. I love it. When i mic stressed. And he just doesn't like wjr approach things but he was talking to get back to clear. His point is that he was saying like Leonard cohen wrote. You know hallelujah. In twenty years. And bob dylan wrote so bob dylan ruins zone. Whatever his entirely like twenty minutes and he's like what's the difference. Yeah and i'm so it's kinda like you have to. I like you might as well be open to both like. I don't think there's like a rule with like how long things should take. I think it's good to just like throw some stuff at the wall. But i think it's good to have the balance like sometimes i feel maybe with i don't want to talk about like generations and stuff but i i the thing that worries me. Sometimes but all liked disposable content is it prevents people from maybe like working on some longer form content as well. yes. I think that's right. I think there's something. I've been talking a lot about lately. Is i think both artists and listeners and fans have are getting bad training right now in whatever era. This is like yeah. 'cause you're trained to just put it out there keep putting it out never stopped. Never take time. If you put out a longer project the no one will consume it. There's like all these sort of fake rules that were being sold. I i don't know. I mean to turn it back to you and the new album. This is something you took more time with right. And this is something you kept to yourself for awhile. How did that have. Was that a conscious decision to it. Just sorta happened over time that you were writing and you kind of look back and you're like oh. This is like a cohesive collection of work. Maybe i should go in that direction. How did take shape for you. Yeah i mean the nice thing about sorting nowadays with music is Dow can be sort of whatever he wanted to be so. I had a couple singles on there. That had already been out for a few years. Like love me over it. Those are really important to me. And i love them and you know like there's no rule like whether or not i can put up eighteen. I'm album tweet. Twenty one which. I love. But that being said i guess yeah i kind of was like i'm always just kinda working on songs and i'm sort of stock not stockpiling them. But i am not just like working on a song. And then i put out the song and then i on the next song. I don't really work that way. I'm just kinda constantly working on a bunch and then it. I feel like one should come out. I'll put it out but it's not. Yeah i once. I have sort of a group of songs. I'm like then. I started to think of them as a package and then from there maybe like the next song. Irate might be informed from like how those four songs together rather than just how one song sounds by itself and for me like what the album i don't really like i'm not like one day i'm gonna sit down. I'm going to start my album today. It's not really like that. It's more like i'm just gonna keep writing. 'cause i all i care about is like i want every song to be good and consistent consistency is like my main driving force for anything that i make and yeah. I was a hat all these songs. I was working on kind of like random. And then when i wrote the first on the album which i didn't know it would be the first song When i finished it kinda like this feels like the intro to something and that was kind of like the trigger in my brain to be like okay. I'm gonna start figuring out if this could be moreno. I guess so grand intention as an artist. I'm always like my goal is to make albums because that's all that's pretty much i care about. Wh- what do you think. Why is that. Is that because you grew up with albums were album like as an important part of you know your formation as an artist like where do you think that comes from. Yeah one hundred percent because growing up That's pretty much. The only ones into music was Parents my dad would play me an album or something i would do. Wait till i knew about go biden. Cd and i would like layer wrestler. Open the lyric book and just like do a friend tobacco. I was like a really cool experience and i look forward to that so much especially if it was a band loved And even to this day. Like if i hear a song that i liked on. I'll usually see if it's on an album. And then i'll go and check out the record I love that man because in in this day edge when you do click through and listen to the whole album or whatever it is. There's almost a it almost feels like you're discovering a secret you know because i think the way the platforms push it. It's always singles based it's always you know whichever saw is streaming the best whatever but then. Yeah it's almost like this weird reverse discovery if you actually click through and find that. There's this wealth of other music. You know totally. And i love that and yeah i mean what about you. Do you listen to al. Are you an album person. Or how do you consume i definitely. That's how i grew up absolutely same as you. You know new album. Drops from aband- i loved. I would absolutely go by the first day. Dropped listened to it front to back probably listened to nothing but that album over and over for like two weeks yes seattle. Yeah and i. And i absolutely loved that part of it but yeah these days man i dunno i. I'll still listen to an album. But it's i feel like i've been trained badly now. I don't seek it out as much as i used to now and especially in dance music. I don't know. I mean even like people. Don't send me albums people. Send me singles totally. Yeah and it yeah. It's not like I don't think every is like needs to make albums i've just like. That's what i like to do. And i'm a i'm not like i'm not like against curtis who just wanna do like the single like dj culture thing too. 'cause like i love that right at totally different way But yeah i actually feel like there is kind of shift with like some of the electronic artists. Like i know you think of like san jose low and stuff where i kind of feel like. It's these people that are taking the these kind of like band ideologies and then applying them to dance music and i like. I think that's really exciting. So i i completely completely the i mean it's so you and i were talking before we went live here that earlier today i was talking to busy p and we actually he and i talked about this idea a little bit because i was kind of just having a little fun but i i read this quote he said about how deejays aren't rockstars and then i kind of put it to him but he was partially responsible for deejays becoming rockstars through all of his work. And it's interesting. Because i think ben if deejays rockstars then i think what you're talking about is a logical next step right because it's there's like a weird disconnect where if you're a pure dj playing other people's music but you're being perceived like a rock star. There's like a logical inconsistency. With that where i think if you wanna keep growing as an artist if you wanna step further into like the role of rockstar. The role that kind of thing. I think you have to look to what did do what had bands do. You know what what did work for them. And i think that kinda like ties it back in logically. It makes it makes sense to people you know. Totally and yeah. It's funny that he agree with that. When you said that he was responsible for making deejays rockstars. Yeah a he agreed hundred percent and he kind of said that the beauty of it was that both ideas can exist simultaneously. That deejays aren't rockstars. And you shouldn't take yourself too seriously and you know you should basically be humble and have no ego about it but that if you do that and if you know you have good intentions and just good ideas. Then of course. Why shouldn't you have fun and take it to its. Its most extreme the furthest extent that you can you know. Yeah and i definitely i mean. Obviously he was involved with justice. Really heavily and you know. I would say what made them. Massive at that. Time was the fact that they just dropped this album. That was very cohesive very exciting from french tobacco and it kind of rocked electronic music in like a really new way that was it was super inspiring for me as an as someone who came from punk rock background to see that energy from my world being like applied to a dance floor and like bloom at bloom at nine and it was the catalyst for what made me like fall in love with electric music for sure. Yeah i completely agree man. I mean if you this is an open ended question and you don't even have to have an answer for it but if you think back to those early felix cartel is blog house days electro days where they really did sort of embodied that punk spirit in a lot of ways. Do you have any memories from those times that just you think about a lot. Maybe run in your head in the background. A lot for for any reason like it doesn't even have to be like a significant thing. Well i actually. I have a very good story that it goes in line with what you have been saying today already and it was third show ever. I had moved to glasgow for school. And i opened for justice and busy p. I just told busy. Peer this story like an hour ago. I remember because. I was like so nothing at that point but lake. They pay me. It's like a troll tack heinekens. My response was i get to go to the justice show for free. Y- thousand socal like blew my mind and Yeah it was just like it's felt like shows. It didn't feel like i feel like i. That was the other thing makes like maybe we touch on this last name but they slipped but clubbed ecosystem on its head a little bit where you know like there's dress code and all this weird shit at clubs when when i was going so Just kind of felt like you could just go. If you like the music and at that in that sense it felt more like a show got that they were like not letting people in the clubs but there is like all these kinda like hoity-toity rules. I think before that era you know going to a club. It was a very specific subsection of people. You know it was like it was not maybe that diverse in any number of ways. And i think that to me was something that the electro era in the blog house aaron in mid to late twenty tens to thousands era did was all of a sudden people. Were getting together again from all different walks of life. Everybody dancing together you know. Different colors creeds sexualities. All that in a way that we had seen since you know for at least ten years before that totally data was definitely it was a rejuvenated rejuvenation to the scene. That was Felt very necessary and timely. Yeah i agree man. I mean how are you thinking about going back to live shows. Now you know as we're starting to open up a little bit. I know the. Us is a little ahead of Candidate at the moment. But you know we're all trying to trying to get there like has anything changed in your mind about the way you want to present your music going forward. Obviously i'm sure you know you're thinking about album tour all that kind of stuff. Yeah i think Actually have a show on friday which is crazy immune raising. Yeah calgary is like wide opens july first. So that sounds like calgary or it of canada. I guess yes calgary. Wrong that calgary is kind of like the south like the the us south of the canadian texas. Because it's like oil country and stuff. So i always got those vibes and they. It's the thing. I'm playing his calgary stampede. Which is like they're weird cowboys stampede. Every year. so it's like. Oh man like wait. There's cowboys in canada and unlike in in alberta there are there's cowboys i always wanted to go to stampede man. I looked so fun such a fun time. I'm not shitting on it or anything. It's just like is just kind of weird. Because i'm like wait. There's like this whole cowboy thing and everyone's like wearing cowboy hats and stuff. It's weird to play a dj show for cowboys right. I also played blues desks one year. And i thought that was weird. Everything's weird disappointed because they're just. There's there's a dj stage every festival there really is. I mean okay. This is an aside and then we'll come right back to this have what's the most out of place you felt at a show like. Are there any super weird bookings that come to mind like why. Why did you ask me here. Yeah i've done things like i've done some radio stuff. Where like it's a bit of a radio tour but all the other artists singers. And then like i just go on at the end of dj. The dj closes out but no one in the crowd. Because it's more like a little bit of a corporate thing No one has ever been to dj show so they're just like what is this. Is he going to sing. Tao why is he just standing there. Yeah and they're always like you want to do twenty minutes and i'm like I guess i can do twenty minutes but like a twenty minute. Dj doesn't add. Just get in pocket. And i get your and it's like a comedian. You know exactly. Go up five yes so back to your question. About live shows yeah. I think you know. I've been thinking a lot about like how i want my show to feel. Obviously like i really wanna do some production stuff and. I'm hoping that now that i've had some canadian radio success. Like hopefully that will open me up to better slots at festivals. Where i can. I can try to ex you some ideas. I have because. I definitely have a lot of them and i feel capable to build a show that is engaging but yeah i kind of was i been thinking like especially i've been doing like this twitch stream a little bit of just kind of an open format. Dj it was kind of like been going through it every night. And i realized my the flow of my sets. Sort of like unveiled yourselves to me just by doing it and it was like i love the party house kinda vibes and like upbeat fun stuff which i would say is like the majority of my new album and then a kind of have like the feels he stuff which is my son's at mixes which were himself remixing my stuff and then i have this kind of like weird banger tendency that was embedded in me from growing up with this stuff and i kind of have been like thinking about structuring sets in the way that you can kind of like go on more of a journey through these different feelings rather than not not being so open format that. You're just play everything. Because i don't like that but also just playing because i probably haven't gotten associated with commercial more commercial. Edm now because of reassess and things like that But i definitely want to still like throw the curve balls of like my what. I've been into and stuff so i've been working on building a few things that showcase that i think you'll like an interesting way so have actually been working on a thing very quietly. That will like hopefully showcase what i mean very soon and i wish i could announce good. Yeah yeah you've got a chance. I got the vision for sure. I i actually in a weird way like the pandemic has been like this silver lining of like giving me time to think about how to execute these things. Because i've had so much time at home to just like work through stuff. So yeah and i mean you know you mentioned commercial success people associating you with commercial. Edm olive that kind of thing. How do you feel about that. Like because i think all of us who do this. No that commercial quote unquote edm. There's plenty of you know. There's plenty of things i think. People some people try to avoid it entirely. Some people engage with it but try to not get lost in it. Some people go all the way in. I think we talked about this a little bit the last time we talked how you know. You've you've evolved quite a bit as an artist over the years. Where are you at with it now. Like how has the way you see yourself changed. I mean i think lake. And i've talked about this with a few like either artists that are like sort of somewhat commercial. But like you know it's like learning like there's so much pop music that i love and like coming to grips with that and owning it. Maybe it's like a sometimes a hard thing especially if you're coming through like whatever whatever Trajectory that i took But my thing is like so now. It's like i sort of doing this question with myself where you know if i hear a song on the radio. That's massive and don't like it though. Like i think it's cheesy or whatever i kind of like put myself in the sticker if that person reached out for me to like do this song them. Would i do it. I'm just till i get whatever level. And i probably would. I don't think like and that's been really grounding to me. It's more like. I love so much pop music but i hate. There's so much bad pop music too. And i'm like so it's like i think there is so much cheesy shit and i won't i think it's just knowing like i wanted do any of it. Yup at any cost just to like try to get fifty million streams or whatever it is of course that makes total sense and i think maybe this goes back again to where we were talking about. If not just doing it for doing it sake not just doing it for contents or cloud or or whatever it is. There's actually i got sent a little press. Pack it for you from your team. And i've literally never done this before but there's actually like a poll quote that i'm going to read because i thought it was really good from you which said growing up arguably through one of the worst areas of one hit wonders in musical history. I remember constantly being disappointed. When i bought an album and there is only one good song which is a great quote and i think goes back to you running to the store and buying the album and listening and all the way through but i think also ties into what you were just talking about right where it's that you want to give other people the experience you had right and be that be that reliable artists were anything you're putting out regardless of what it sounds like is something you can stand behind totally and that's kind of brings me to my other like monster. I guess that. I've developed over. The last years is like basically. All i tried to do is make a song that i would wanna hear and that could be popular or less poppy or whatever. 'cause i like lots of types of music on like is what it is. I love music. I just love music as a whole and so you know i. I made this joke long ago. That people always think i played toxic. Live as a joke. But i don't i play because i fucking love that song honestly. I like whole heartedly love that song. It's an incredible like not trying to be like jumping on some trend or like. Oh it'd be random if a dj plays a popular or anything. I'm like no. I literally just love this song. I wanna play it. I would not trust anyone who didn't like like that's such insane pop song. Oh yeah it's so mode tomorrow. It's still sound like it's from the future like the production really really holds up. Pledge shine avant. And yeah so. I i don't know it's lake. I know doing more commercially and stuff is like sort of like a risk in a weird way because there is always going to be like shit talkers who think that i might be just the guy who is like oh they just send me the song and then i put it out and that's like my new commercial song and i guess like maybe that's the other reason why i love albums so much because it's kind of like i think it's my way to like show that argue different level. Hopefully i don't know like i'm not sure i compare it. Anyone but all i can do is like show that i care about this thing that i made and Yeah like you know the the songs i i'll get maybe one one song here. They're sent to me that i was like. Oh this is really amazing. And i want to be involved with it and then maybe i'll work through with vocalist like over email or something but the majority of this album like i was in the studio writing every single song all lyrics like we're all writing all these songs together and they're about themes that i have sitting in my notes on my phone because i want to talk about it because i want the album's my album and have all these amazing singers but the way that i feel is like were singing about the things that like. I wanna talk about that. I can't talk and sing. So it is a relatable knife read. But let's talk about the songwriting process a little bit. Because you were saying you know you work. Every day. consistency is important to you. But instead i it's not always finished asong start a new song. Finish that song star. New song so i guess two part question. How does this for you typically. How does a song start. And then second part of the question. How do you know when a song is finished Question i wish i knew i was hoping you do. So then i would know. Sign up from a master course and i'll tell you nine dollars a day. No i guess you know over time. Like i've sort of learned now that i write with people that if you come in with like a fully fleshed out instrumental. I usually find that to be counterintuitive to making something. Because i don't think people want to be like to informed off the bat so it's like it's like so much suggestion if you have like everything already done and it feels like now. You're like writing in a box so for me. It's more like. I'll just come in with a couple of progressions. But i like all the ones that like. I'll make five or six. Maybe four or five. That i like and then i'll be like play them through and if someone's like oh that one's cool i'm like cool. I already know that. I like because i only brought ones that i like. And then we'll just kind of you know maybe rift some like melody ideas like that and then the biggest change in my production i would say was rather than just like. I don't know like i felt like. There was some disconnect sometimes when i listen to a lot of electronic music where it was like this vocal that tells us beautiful story and like drop comes out of nowhere i was like. Oh yeah i feel like a remix sometimes to me which totally fine like. Maybe that'd be good edit for show. But but i was kind of like i really honestly like. I felt really fortunate to work with vocalist. That i thought were like way out of my league. Sometimes so in my head. I was like really. I really wanted to do their vocal justice and like amplify the theme of what they're saying how they're saying it and then also showcase what i can do but like in a way that's not just like overstepping so i really like when i think of a club. I'm like literally like. How do i make this split down the middle felix club so it feels like both people were part of this. Not just like someone hopped on my freaking. Edm beat that says four. Three two one for the job emila unless it's a symbol putting your hands up then then made it work then. Maybe that's all right. I mean it's really interesting to hear that man d you when you're starting a songwriting chord progressions that kind of thing. Are you the start of a song. Are you hoping for all your songs to be ca- labs like are you always writing thinking about you know like presenting it to someone else getting somebody else's input not everything like i definitely have my like. That's like one day of like that's one style of day rating and then i haven't the other day where i'm just like kind of call it like more like exploratory mode where you know i might like weird I might hear like an old house sung lilac. I might hear like a rufus to soul like instrumental track. That i like am. I hear like odessa halftime. Beat that. I like just things that inspire like tourist or something. Some weird like electronica. Don't here like in my seen that often. And sometimes days where i'm like i try maybe like do something in this state and then i'll just go around with it and you know on the album. I don't not every song has a feature. They most most of them do. But there's a few on there and those were like my exploratory vibes and yeah yeah it's it's it's both like i still want to be able to myself as a producer not like purely rely on my colleagues to so for me. It's a marriage of those two. Yeah no that makes sense. I i really like going up on the album. Which is one of those solo tracks and yeah it's interesting now to hear you say that's like okay. That's that's you like. Try something than having fun and go. Yeah that's it makes makes a lotta sense man. I mean there's so. I'm trying to think as i was listening to the album. There's like some common. I mean there's lyrically common themes of course but Musically as well. I feel like and correct me if you disagree with the statement but i feel like it's closer to a signature sound quote unquote than i've ever heard from you before. Like i feel like you've you've dialed it in somehow or like just gotten closer to some kind of like cohesive stamp. Yeah thank you very. Yeah i think. I definitely have maybe not my like. I guess like my tropes a little bit to fall back on i feel like i have sort of my toolkit a little bit more figure it out. Maybe and i definitely you know. I definitely noticed this when i listened to a lot of the thing is as for me. I cannot describe production in two stages of a career like the first part. The first half of your life is like how the fuck do i even make it. Sound like close to what i hear my head. And that's like the first ten years or whatever the hell is it could be longer could be shorter And that's frustrating by you. Get a of like random things that happened in. that's exciting. Because you like stumble upon something and then the second half is now okay pretty much can figure out what like if i have divided my head. I can pretty much get it on. Paper now. feels more like okay. Now what do i choose to express that idea uniquely and also to feel like me so like it comes. It becomes more like sound selection. So you know just like there's a lot of etiam that sounds like very like digital. Yeah like really crisp and like those people are arguably probably like probably were talented than because they're like getting in there you know. With scientific ezekiel and all that bullshit and kudos. Those guys but i like that doesn't interest me at all and like figuring that out that i like. It's not for me is like really helpful to me because then it helps me like inform. I sound like. I'm always trying to make things i was joking. I'm trying to fix things. Sound worse. Because i like. I like when things down a little more like organic so if piano. Mike how do i make this sound de tuned. A little bit and like it's underneath a blanket that is like being played out of the speaker that has also underneath the blanket. Does yeah putting blankets on everything is really the takeaway here but no man. I think that's spot on. And i think you you accomplish that for sure. Do like listening to some of the tracks. There is kind of like a nostalgic sound to the album to that. I didn't catch the first time around. I only cottage kinda later today. When i was listening back that Yeah and i don't know if that only comes from the the processing on it and sort of trying to make it a little more ponca which also by the way seems like. That's kind of back to the roots right. We were talking about coming up in the punk is and when everything was a little messy and I mean certainly when you first came out and we're dropping to allow temporaries whereas well. I mean if you objectively look back a lot of those tunes and not yours. But i'm saying everybody's we're like badly made you know by today's standards but there's something great about that. Yeah i think it's because there is a way less samples available. That's like a huge part of it. No tutorials and stuff too right like the the or at least way less so yeah. That was like a really exciting time. And i think i'm romanticize a little bit because it was like sometimes now feel like there's to me like the most exciting artists are the ones where i still don't really know what their next single is going to sound like. And then at the ones that i can kinda like call then. They sorta like dial for me a bit faster. Yeah true. I would say from that era like man when there is like the real like banger guys like boys boys. I still to this day is the same way but man dam. And like people. Like i could pull a dam. Yeah it would just be like. I've no idea what their next because it was so exciting when you saw that they dropped something new to just see what they came up with so i guess like maybe i do try to play a bit of that now when i'm working because it's like i don't know just weird things like i discovered on plug in that i really love and i like use that a lot on this album because it reminded me of i mean from what is it. Strawberry fields iconic electron song and that is nostalgic to me so maybe that makes it feel nostalgic. But i was just like i never really heard miller on it and a lotta dance tracks and that was of just. I was like stumbled upon that data. Felt uniquely me. And i don't know if it's fits but felt like a to me and that's enough. Yeah yeah and and. I think what you said too is important. That intention matters read that I mean this is actually be curious to know your take on this. But you know i. I think you can hear in a weird way. You can hear the intention right like if you put them on the track thinking that it sounded nostalgic to you and maybe it would be nostalgic to other people you know. Even if somebody who doesn't know what electron is here. Is that something about the intention of that choice. That you made it connects in the brain somewhere. I don't know if we keep going down this road. It gets a little like hippy. And we'll but i dunno. Where do you agree with that. Yeah i think because. I think anything sonically that you're picking probably Has like a place in someone's brain even if they can't describe like were they've heard it but like certain sounds obviously like drought certain emotions because they like tied heavily something more so than others and like melenchon immediately takes me back to like late sixties. Or yeah or like mid sixties early seventies. i guess. I'm sure there's music nowadays like just has that sound and i even have someone couldn't put it into words like they'd probably like heard it and then it would make them think of the records from that time so yeah i agree with your point. That sounds hold a lot of like yeah. That's i mean that's all music is right. You're trying to find that blend of lake. How do you make something feel familiar to someone. Even if they haven't heard. I think that's a good thing he's maybe. Yeah that's such a good goal. That's i mean that's the magic of sampling to right like that's the magic love of dance music in general and not even just dance music but you know hip hop and all of that is you can just immediately reference a different era and a different time period different culture whatever it may be and even if the person hearing it doesn't know what it is there's that power there is i swear there's something ephemeral in hearings dumping that was made in a different time period even if you don't know what it is. I think there's something in your brand. There's something in that that's coded that tells your brand this is this is different. Yeah no i feel that starting to put into words. But i like i know you mean and i. That's probably like one of the things that i love about music. 'cause i i think that's why i always love music too hard to put some things into words about why. I think. That's kinda beautiful in totally not to go down your hippie lane. No big is great. I completely agree. Because i'm i think i'm like you and a lot of ways in our last podcast. We were talking about how you like to break down certain myths in in what we do like the myth of the myth of like pure talent or or the myth of like making it like you. Just make it one day and then you're fine. You know all those sorts of things. And i'm the same way where when a lot of people talk about sort of these lofty concepts. I think it's sort of a like a cop out where really the answer is just like hard work in practice and and like you said consistency right percent but then there something like we're talking about now this like weird thing of like how do we produce nostalgia and why does it make me feel that way. I don't have an argument to break that down. So i think that's maybe that's maybe why i keep getting drawn to it. Does that make sense. Yeah and to add to your point. Like i i would say I almost feel like. I might have more mathematical brandon artistic brain. I dunno f- like i'm a weird mix of both may be like i'd like to try to solve a problem if there's a problem that's like you know. Probably why my ex hate me. Because they don't they're just like way shirow. This is completely no. But i. I think that's i love music. It's because like it feels like you can't solve it so but it feels like it's fun to try to keep trying so like this always happens like stumble upon a new thing in music and i'm like oh man like i think i just figured out how to mix based today right and i'm good now right and then it's like three months later you look was back to that and you're like oh only at like it wasn't even close yet you know it's just like any constantly feels like everything is always like quote my own woman my own songs right now at the like wait now remember kids but basically like the more i learn. The less i know is kind of like jetty at a one hundred percent. That's like i like. Yeah that's my favorite shit about like creative stuff. Because it's like yeah. No one knows that's the whole like. I'm sure when you started the podcast show you were like this is going to like one hundred percent or would there's no very much not Yeah i'm still not sure this is gonna work. Yeah i feel that we used to so yeah. I'm always like encouraging people like just make the thing. Because it's like what else gonna do not make the thing and then just like way worse to like not make the thing and imagine like what would happen if i made the thing. It's way better than i like. No thing didn't work and you can try the next one hundred percent and it affects the way you make creative choices because if you're if you're only making the thing to get to some eventually will end point then that's you've kind of already defeated yourself. Give you set off writing this album and your goal was. I'm going to have platinum records. And i'm going to headline festivals as opposed to. I'm going to make a cohesive body of work with my friends and do something fun like that changes the outcome wildly right. Yeah one hundred percent that you brought that up because anything. I can read about process and less about outcome. I like eat that up so much because it's because if you have like all like i could have goals. Goals are different. Because they're kinda like not pinpointed but you know if you have a specific thing for for like a project you did and it doesn't hit that then like in your brain that whole thing could feel like a failure which is like. That's a little break you i think. That's what makes you quit. You know. I always hear people like i have like if i don't do this in a year then i'm going to go back to like my other job. I'm just kinda like just go back to your job now. Arbitrary like like. What's the difference between like three hundred sixty five days. I'm like four hundred days. I you know what. I mean like you but you know if your if your goal is i want to be able to finish a song faster than i can tell us a song now or i want to be better than my song was a or like those kinds of goals like those are those are way better goals because the others like things other things will happen and always going to have the thing that you wish you also had with. You know like. I'll have some wins but then like i'll be thinking about this thing that i didn't have the win on and if you like focus on like you're you're you're miserable so i find the joy in the work i think and then any of the outcomes you gotta just take sorta like the desert the bonuses a man. I'm right there with you. That's exactly how i think about it. But as we're talking i'm realizing also and this sort of goes back to what you were saying about like the older you get the more you realize you don't know anything is that we both know people who don't think this way at all and very successful people like i know people who i can give you. I can give you one example. At least which is a good friend of mine formerly brill's now. ls dream. And i think he would be fine with me saying this like he makes. He makes mood boards every year and he puts very concrete goals on these mood boards. Of like you know. Maybe it's like a picture of someone playing in front of ten thousand people or maybe it's a platinum a picture of a platinum plaque or whatever. And you know he. He's very into that kind of visualizing manifesting whatever you call it and i'm only using him as an example. There's plenty of people who i think. Think that way and are that kind of like goal oriented and so it works for some people. It would definitely not work for me but yeah it's interesting to or is it just kind of like there to remind him of like what he was. Originally focused on a kite line were no. I don't think it's a cut time line. But i think he does remake the vision board like every year bright. You know so. Y- ask him before talk too much about it. Exactly what he thinks. But no and i know people that that have those as well and i. I don't think that's yeah. I don't know if that's exactly the same. Maybe but yeah because he definitely wants your goals. Are i think or at least have been your head on some level if that's your only motivation is an elliott Yes seems like it seems like a lot of away everything on so like i wanted to hear my son. The radio day But if i put a timeline on squiggle because it took michael. I mean that's that's a really good point man because yeah that's the other thing is you can't plan for most of this shit. You can absolutely have whatever goals you want to have but like you also have to be aware that it's you no matter what you do. You can't make it happen when you want it to happen for sure. Mba people's mcmahon. I wished i still had goals exactly. I mean that's true right. There is like a minnesotan like maybe we're just too jaded at this point. I i'm always like yeah jaded or am i just because i get to so like when the album comes. Oh come out. And they're like people like all like how's it. How's the album doing and i was like. What is that what you ask. What do you mean. How was the number of streams. Are you asking like. Did i get five. Pm when people say they enjoyed it. Am i happy that it's exactly. I'm like i don't know and i know there are just asking it like i'm not like it's a nice question that they are asking them. They care like i. I'm not getting mad at this person. But i don't know like what am i. What am i wayne. That question on. I have no idea i so if you have a way to answer this question that would be helpful. I have no idea what to say. I'm like i'm a yet seems to be seems to be on spotify. Still exactly. I mean all i think you can stay and you know what i'll actually i'll bring this around because there's another thing that that sammy. Ls dream said to me. Once that i remembered is that now instead of saying talking about success. He just talks about that. He's proud of it like to him. That's if anyone asks how it was he's like i'm proud of what it is. I'm proud of what i put out. That's good let's get answered. Yeah i'm gonna remember that. Yeah i think so too man. I mean let. Let's talk a little bit. You know you mentioned that. You the goal of getting on the radio and i think earlier. You mentioned that you at this point. You know you've got quite a bit of radio activity especially in canada. And you've got i mean there's there's platinum records there's multiple platinum records on this album right. Yeah how how does that. You like multiple. I think it's okay. So break this down because i think a lot of people don't understand how a record gets to radio what that is like especially coming from like a more underground scene or mentality I know in canada. I think canada's a little more supportive of of its hometown team to a certain extent. But what was that process like if you're getting into the radio ecosystem yeah i mean i've had different labels over the years. So when i left him. I signed with Universal canada and then kinda like restructured. And now i'm on a subsidiary label. But we're still like connected in that system so i'm always i don't know how like i don't know if it's possible to get on the radio without having major label support helps yeah. It's so Yeah that system is very It's a monopoly. Unfortunately it's still on school right. Yeah it's very. Yeah but that being said like i definitely a period probably around like twenty fifteen or so. I was kinda like i'm gonna write i need to. I want to write some more like radio songs to like. Because i want to get on the radio and man like the stuff i i'm like the worst part of my feeling and that was when i had like an album done of like twelve songs and i listened to it one day and i and i thought it was like this more commercial as my like attempt and then it was like i listened to friend tobacco and and i was like this is almost here is is horrible is horrible and i literally just like. I'm i'm not gonna listen to songs ever again and i just moved on the up and kinda like freed me a bit but then it was kind of like i kind of like. I like pop music and stuff. It's not like i'm trying to write something that don't like fuck with but i was thinking i was trying. Yeah i was kind of like doing it. Adding costs fell lake. And then once they flip my head around and be like what like try to read a catchy song thoughts on that i think is catchy. I think that's like way better than trying to write like smash the i think it's just like oh just trying to write a song that like you you you love and maybe get stuck in your head. I think it's like way better to approach it that way. So my like my sort of like tests. That i try to like envision is if my son just randomly came up on a playlist. Would i skipped my own song. Hey think when. I write a song so many like bad pop songs on like whatever the like pop per whatever new music playlist or whatever you wanna call them. I'd probably have a fifty percents skip rate when i'm listening to like the new music playlists or whatever. Oh yeah i mean. I think mine would be much higher than that to be honest. Yeah that might be maybe generous down so i'm kind of like okay. Well what what are the ones on. And these are still songs that are like mainstream. All of them technically okay. So what are the ones that are like in this world. That are interesting to me. And what are they doing. That's cool to me. That i feel like you can still sorta like get away with That doesn't feel like tacky or cheesy. I think that's the biggest thing that puts me off. Pump music feels like cheese. So yeah that was really. That was probably like my turning point for. I was like i know. Women are right. Things that are somewhat pop and commercial. Because like i'll legitimately love that stuff but Yeah just thinking about whether or not i would listen to. It is really helpful. Before i was thinking like would other people listen to this and yes that's such a good piece of wisdom and is that that that's all it is is. Would i listen to this. It's not about trying to predict what other people want out of you right. Because that's like that's an impossibility totally. And if you try to like if you try to write for everyone like your so fucked like i always feel if you can find like a niche thing like double down on your knees especially like that could be with anything that has to be within songwriting. That could be with your how you post on social media or like marketing or like anything like if you find like a weird thing that is offensive to you like own that thing because that is what people will gravitate towards is because they to like. It's like it's a it's like he become with the club a little bit. it's cool. it's cool feeling. Oh absolutely yeah. And i think it's people are drawn to I've had this argument because not everyone agrees with me. But i really do think. On a subconscious level people are drawn to our that has made authentically and the argument. The pushback i get on it is people saying like i know but you know people full the fans all the timer you know curate area image blah blah blah but to me. Maybe you can do that. Successfully for a short period of time. But i don't think you can sustainably do that over the course of a career. Yeah no i definitely agree. And i think maybe a lot of people that has the curated images the ones that do surviving. Nfl image turns out to be sort of like curated You can tell who like legitimately like loves music though. I think that's like a big part of it. You can tell who's kind of like planted in the industry to be like you're the you're the thing and you can tell like. Maybe maybe they made some choices that weren't antic to them but like almost always those people come around eventually being like. I wasn't doing what i want. But i love this. So my that becomes like the as the story of a lot of the pop star that i grew up with definitely. So that's that's really really interesting man. Yeah you're right. Because i am and that's the thing you can own up to it later. It doesn't mean you know if you do something to try to please. People try something on to see if it fits if you know what i mean like. Oh that is fine. But i think yeah you gotta you gotta follow that that north star of just what you actually like like this is let me. Let me say this and see if you agree. This is one thing that was good for me. In quarantine was the the enforced break. Like i did go a little crazy for a minute. Mentally coming back and putting the pieces back together. One of the things i really asked myself was break. It down all the what do i like like i almost like. I think i forgot what i like for a minute leg resonate with that so hard. Yeah it's he adds weird having all that extra time where you're not moving all the time. Yeah like i mean moving. I'm traveling just things like that a lot of times. I think you know. Maybe when i had i had to like think about stuff i probably. It was like ads book trip with. Okay okay libby. Let me press you on that though because in this quarantine. You still did a shitload stuff like it. Seemed like you were still super-busy yet. Because i don't have any hob. I had no hobbies. I realized i just only like music but like honestly i had to schedule stuff. 'cause i i i have no schedule. That's the thing like i. I'm pretty good about going to studio like every day but even that is like it's a like it's it's the same thing always so you know i was doing my weekly stream because i was like this will like at least have like a. There's a pin in the week. Every two here which is helpful. I was thinking like like the hardest part for me in the quarantine is like philly and my weekends because i like realized. I don't know how to like have a weekend. Because i've always been traveling on on the weekends. Well what does that look like. I mean do you. Do you get antsy if you don't have anything planned. Don't have anything to do. Like is is downtime. A little look painful for you. Yeah i feel like. I like how had like invite friends to hang out and then you obviously have at the beginning. This supposed to do that so i like to do that. So yeah i think it was like this is the thing like i am pretty good at working for five days a week in the studio but then having the release of the show. Was this nice like pay off for you. Like yeah and i made this club song now. I get to hear it in the club right. And that's nice but now it's like call now. I get to go home and have wine like try to figure out how to fill weekend was the struggle. It was like invert the inverted problem with everyone else. I totally know exactly what you mean. I mean okay so now that we're going back to it. We talked about you. Have these ideas for live shows. And you're playing glad shows in a few days here do you. Do you think you're going to balance it any differently. Was there anything nice about this enforced. Break that the change the way you think about you know how you approach the the whirlwind. That is this career good question. I don't know. I think i'm gonna have to like do a couple i. I don't have any like crazy. New takes i feel like i was pretty good like how i had it like. I had a good balance of you know taking it very seriously and preparing but also having like a release in just like a fun time. And i'm like not a hit seriously because it's music no it's like even do these conversations and i love them. I love creative and stuff. But i'm also like salsa dance records so like you're so silly i talk about this all the time. Let's just be real like what we do for. Work is like silly right kind of a silly job that we have and yeah i mean in the most fun beautiful positive way. But it's a silly job. Totally silly. Yeah it's like. I feel like so lucky to do it like and like i feel like i'm going back to talk all the time where it's like people like make these musician take. I didn't realize i had to do like. It's like producing your vocals like doing the marketing doing the blah blah blah and. I'm like he didn't realize you had to like dude. I don't get like what did you think you made the song. And then and then he blows up and you never have to do anything else. I don't know it just feels kind of weird me also. It's a career as a decision. You make like it's not like right. It's not like you fell into the job out of high school Because you like working for your dad who was a dj and he's like suddenly makes tj. And then you realize it was all this extra stuff being being a musician. You're always choosing if that's funny makes any sense. No i know. I know what you mean man. I definitely know what you mean. I but okay so talk to me. We've gotta talk about talk for a second. Because i only i only saw your rise to tick-tock fame sort of through your social media. And i you know i was just catching post here and there and yeah so break it down to me because i legitimately don't know how this started like was it just. Was it just a tick talk. You made randomly that went super viral. That kind of started you on this trade. Yeah i was like doing okay talk. I'd like six thousand dollars or something so and you know you get verified on talk early. 'cause you if you're an artist you can like get your team to verify or whatever That's another sort of a. That's like the label. Helping you get on the radio kinda thing. Yeah and it's just like that because they no one understands how verification on anything works yearly nadia close but you only have this many followers on the mike. Okay not released this. Can we quick sidebar. That i think is the most genius thing. Social media companies have ever done is. They've capped the mystique of verification going for so long now. Yeah like that to me is crazy. That people still don't know how it works at. It's still this weird ephemeral thing that everyone wants but no one even knows why they want it like. There's some there's some kind of evil genius in that like getting guest list or something. You know kinda hike sending goal. She thinks in within the system the learn how the how the cogs inside the machine work You gotta pull back the curtain. It's much less exciting. What you thought. Yeah so i kind of had to viral moments on talk. I it's happening like say these conversations now i love this is silly career man silly career. You got to lead into silly. I'm a syrian. Yes so basically. Like i was verified. Like five thousand followers. Everyone's like how are you there side even are you all this stuff So i made this post. That said like how i got verified. It was totally fake via spot billboard songs and i just said that i go board. An eyelid emailed to talk. And i took a screen shot at so good neck was like wade so like you like trick them like. Aren't they going to catch you. And it's all good. Like i don't worry about it like i said it's i treat the app as dumb as i think it is so yeah and then so that was fine. I got a bit of like you know a few more followers and all that done more likes your shares and then yeah this This guy this kid named josh was doing this interview show where he said this line. Louis vitton because i'm banned from the gucci store in some interview show and then this girl made this talk or she saw this clip. She responded to it and she was explaining this. I'm not a producer. But this would be like. I feel like this would be a really cool song. She's like it should say this and then it should build up and then it goes. You should be permanently banned on the drop and i was like yeah. It sounds like that we work so someone sent me that video. And just i just got in like at the right time because no one had made one yet or at least not any ones that were half decent or whatever from my big my name me man. I just made it in like literally. Twenty minutes posted. It didn't think anything of it. I think the caption was like because you stitch videos institure duet and i the cap in my stitching correctly that was captured. Like literally has to do with it. Yeah and i think i. I got some drinks with my friends that night. And then i checked it out and it was like eight hundred thousand years already so this this one feels different six million views now which is pretty nice. It's amazing it's amazing. And then we put it on spotify and stuff the song so many people asked and i got the kid josh to like. Get in a studio. New york. To rerecord the vocal. That's amazing x. We can use the clip for nadia familiar from the interview. Show and then. I was like in the studio. Jose like traditional thing. And i'm like have my outcome in two weeks. I'm doing good gotta get the memo though we the people needs to come out like there's a window with me and i posted a clip of people that it's not even the original audio. Wow and then. I was like i gotta make it like sound exactly like the main otherwise. It's gonna like the whole thing is is. Why been doing a copy of a copy And then i'm like some taking. The original audio is recorded version. Had them laid out the site each other like in able to. And i might pitching like literally the end of each word to try to match. I was like this is so stupid. Like what am i doing. And then i'm like and then there was a phone so like making it sound worse ally processing on i'm like he's in new york my downloading like new york times square background noise. What but i love this. Everyone i posted. Everyone was like oh. I'm so glad. You use the original audio so i was like yes. Nailed it maybe produce. That's so good and okay so let me tell you a story because you just connected something in my brand which is that So take it back to find you remember vying read love okay so i like to talk. 'cause reminds me of mine. That's part of the one hundred percent. So i went very viral with an early vine and Apologies to anyone on the podcast. Because i've talked about this before. But it's it's why. I'm on the show. Because you're the guy from vine right exactly and you wanna know how i got verified online. But no okay. So you know the rick. Ross pair meme whereas like i pairs and shit like that now. Shout out to all the pairs and heard that. So that would that was me. I made that medium and you like it. So the original mem-. I found a a an interview of rick. Ross where he was just wasted in the uk targeted. Tim westwood and he just said that they were like backstage at a show. Both of them obviously wasted. You could barely understand them. They're slurring and he just was tired by rick ross's weight loss and then rick ross. Yeah just was like shirtless in a chair. And he was just like shadow all the payers completely wasted and it was so funny to me. I was like it was just one of those things where like people have to this. Someone else has to think. This is funny. Is i think this six second clip and literally the same way you did. It was the only vine. I've ever made i made one. And that was it and and my caption on it was something like a i recreated my vine account just so i could post this and that was it and it went crazy the same experiences you it was like you know i think. Now it's like sixty million views or something nuts and when it while rick bought like a fifty thousand dollar pair chain like he embraced. Oh he went heavy on it for a minute. You know. there's many years ago now but but so all of this to wrap up. This ridiculous story is. I didn't know what to do while it was going viral. I kept asking people my team other artists. Should i be doing something about. This is their way. This can benefit me. Like i really had no idea. And because it was kind of early earlier social media and all that like there wasn't that thought of like well let's turn it into a song or 'cause people weren't like idee aiding on memes that quickly yet and so yeah it was still discovery of mean god. Yeah yeah yeah. Yeah and so you hearing you say that makes me feel better because i was like. Oh maybe it was just like the wrong time for that to happen. Maybe there wasn't something i could have done at that time. Yeah that's like every mean is different to like. Some names like feels like there might be obvious next step and other ones. I dunno like. I made a video of me. Coughing and the camera hit my head. Like how do i follow that. We're just getting this more and more like technical. Theoretical about sillier and sillier things sleigh. It's like silly job but its technical. No i agree. It's like. I feel like pressure now like do i want your next tick talk on it. I'm like i don't know 'cause like i wasn't trying to do to talk. Really trying to fund much. Take so. I'm trying to just be more like i should just keep having fun and not think about whether or not this will just post something that i think is fun and just like basically it comes back to like my whole ethos with every them. Is it a song. Listen to is it a tick dunk. That i think is funny or stupid. Is it like. Do i wanna be on clubhouse or Do i think i'll skip that one. Because it doesn't feel like it works for me. I don't know china's like have you like defeat. Did you feel like you're busy here. In the pandemic weirdly towards the end of it. Yes i definitely one of those people who went through somewhere in the middle. Like i just like i don't know where i was. I dropped into a void for a couple months there but Yeah but by the end of it. I mean i like objectively was not busier but i think my brain was busier. Kind of feel clearfield. Because he can't don't have the extra things that you can just like release what they see. Feel kinda trapped buildup mentally of all. These idea had plenty of time to think about what i wanted to do but but yeah i didn't jump into you know like i'm only streaming now i wasn't streaming through the whole pandemic. You know so. I i was a little late to some of it but again at the time it didn't like talking about clubhouse all that like at the time i was like neither this doesn't i wouldn't enjoy doing this where i'm at mentally right now. You know totally app. Timing is everything on the on the flip side like that was another thing. I liked both the thing. I liked about the which is a really fucked up sending but i am going to finish this time of economic to me revealed who like who the true creatives are. Sometimes so i feel like that's sort of like what being creative is is like It sounds lame to collier's creative. I think sometimes it's like kinda cringe psycho food or something. I feel go looking artist. Sexiest sounds like fucking such a bad habit on this podcast starting sentences like as artists. I'm trying to grow but it's also like yeah you like facility but yeah like you know with restrictions you know it's like it's kinda cool to see who Who adapts. I guess so and i you know the live streaming thing was fucking weird kind of but like then it became this thing where some people do some really cool shit already. That never would happened. And maybe you know because of it. You know i i was thinking like maybe now. We have all this sort of infrastructure set up for festivals and stuff that exists because of the pandemic so that people can enjoy these things more if they weren't aspel. Yeah and. I think that we definitely is a net positive. You're gonna keep streaming. I'm gonna keep doing it for now i i. I think it would come down to whether or not Like see how the tour scheduled unfolds. Yeah but i don't you know it's all i have my first show on friday and i'm like yes now i could finally stop streaming. I don't feel that way about it. I kind of more so feel. Yeah i'm just gonna do it till it stops being fun. Yeah well that's not even or just kinda like sometimes things run their course. Of course i that's like the theme of this whole conversation right like do do what you think is fun at the time. Do what you think is a cool idea at the time and there doesn't really have to be more thought to it than that total. Yeah and also like weirdly like a colonel keeping like the sharpest. I've ever been at dj. Because of that. yeah. I believe i. I never like never really practiced that much. And you didn't come into this as a dj. I right totally. Yeah and it's like you know. Like i feel like dj's say they like practice or whatever but like real like really. How you like hockey hockey practice. So i didn't really think of it that way when i was doing like i was practicing but then like you know i'm jane. I'm talking on the mike trying to keep the chat vibe in or like. Yeah it's a whole songs. I'm playing. I'm thinking about the next song. Getting drunk. sometimes. Yes absolutely mad. Am i right to this is this is kind of the vibe. I got. But i want to ask you if i'm actually right that maybe another silver lining of quarantine locally was that i started to see just through people posting. It seemed like there was a little scene of deejays and producers in nbc. Like in the vancouver area that banded together a little bit while you guys were all stuck there. Yeah there was definitely a little bit of some like community there. I definitely i'm still carrying like lone wolf in a weird way But definitely like the stall jack. She came on my stream lot. Love her she's actually opening my show inside shout out to hershey. I had around this podcast to men. She's great he's the basque. She's one of those people were. I'm like you're gonna be fine because you fucking grind like like that's it. I'm like you already have things figured out that that takes everyone forever to figure out. Yeah absolutely Yeah there's like the no saying skies who i did a with with my other project gloss pedals and then the guy battles johnny good friends. So we were doing our stream for a while I did some writing sessions and with whipped cream. Who hadn't really worked with. Yeah i i wanted to ask you about that. Because i mean she's been on this show and and also she. I consider a friend. Hopefully she considers the of. But i i really like her but you guys in the studio together was interesting to me. Yeah and i don't know the thing we did will will come out. We'll see it's like it's music who knows cut in three years on but yeah it was just kind of like i think she was. Just you know wanted to work on new stuff and was just trying to get some other people who are like a range of styles in the studio so they just reached out and had me come through one day and we'd met at a festival so he'd hung out a few times knowing that would never work together. But she's a grinder man like. Yeah her work ethic is crazy crazy. Yeah like all i care about. It's like people that are in it for the reason so stodgy whipped cream kind of percent. Both of you for good reason. You're gonna i know you're going to be good and kill it. One thousand percent. They already are killing it. Absolutely but Yeah they're going to be fine like you said When you mentioned glass pedals which is your your side project as well We talked about the formation of that project. A bit on the last podcast. Which by the way if you haven't listened to the last gaz with felix cartel whoever's listening to this now you gotta go you gotta go run that because that's the that's the origin story. That's the back story. We get into a latte there but to talk about glass pedals. Now what's going on with glass battles where you guys at is. How are you feeling about the project. I mean you've been dropping a bunch of singles here and there. Yeah still good with it. It's kind of like my Like my my my my. When i don't feel like working on something more melodic i'm just gonna make a banger today. That's kind of like glass. Puddles was for me. Yeah So in a weird way i feel like i'm making like early. Feels cartel records again. So i kind of miss that a little bit But produce way more in like a house here way i kind of house techno with some maybe some early electro influences but that's such a way to reconnect with what we were talking about that nostalgic energy that excitement of when you first did it right like i think. That's that's like a cheat code almost to that. That's what so many of us are always chasing that energy of when you first got into a kodaly and It's just been nice to like. I've kind of just been sending out the songs here. And they're like just as emails to friends and when you make like really he lake More like chiller melodic stuff like he'll get like the dj feedback as much. 'cause there's like i mean i get it i'm just saying my stuff to and i it doesn't it's fine but with all like oh shit number into this tonight so it's like because they're just like i'm making specifically like for like peak hour club stuff so i did a flip of justice distress for that project that was super fun and You put that alright or posted free on my like zach. Posted a video him play of the day. So it's a lot of the guys who came up with their like yes like wolfgang hip he. Dm me about it. He's like yosemite distressing and everyone else wants to like also like relive that arab. Flip it in a way so that it's like because you if you play stress for had stress edit and there's like a twenty year old at the show like they probably not gonna know that saddam maybe but it's going to destroy them because i original so insane good so yes been fine and then you know to to counter that i think you maybe just had him on the show. Dr fresh yeah. Yeah yeah yeah. He just came back on for the round soobee. Yeah that was like a few weeks ago. Yes so we have a song coming out with him. I was And he was like he was actually in vancouver for bit because his his girls out here and he was like yo. Let's make some fucking old school that iovine shit but like but with like a modern tip and i'm like like young. Tell me choice to job some elephants. Let's go see a lot of fun with it. And i'm really excited for the record. It's called the answer nice. She coming out like mid-july really. Oh okay great. Well the yeah. We'll we'll one month and know we'll definitely push that for surveys. That that's great. Is there with glass. pedals is it like. Are you planning bigger things or is it. Is it less of an agenda and more of kind of just like let's have fun and if something happens it happens lined up last year We we're going to do a few things at miami. We had some likely be released on a bunch of labels now so we've been talking with all those labels boat like hopping on what they do label parties and stuff yeah But ideally like my goal was it is like if a city has like more of like the underground like three hundred person like dimly lit club. Like i wanna play that club with this project. I wanna like being a sweat box I want like people just like going crazy on people like not carrying. If they're drink get stalled on their shirt that night. Yup as i'm going to be the one that's still income throw drinks. And that's actually part of the concept of the project is just lost glass pedals. Class everywhere really won't but also like my other kind of dream goal was the is to do like my like descri- absolute perfect scenario which i don't know we'll is my son my vision of felix cartel tour and then just do like after parties. Every night with my dream would be amazing. I mean you. You could absolutely do that. Man i saw. I saw mr cardiac opened up for himself once like like. I'm not even kidding. He did like he opened up. It was a mister karmic dj. With mister car. Mac live band opening amazing. It was crazy and it worked really well. He's back tobacco is this. I mean between no. It was just him and it was crazy like the band played and then he was like give me five minutes. And then i'll start. Dj you just started as yeah. It was incredible and it worked really well was to the band was like jazzy. Funk like super like soulful and then you know the days that was like heavy base and crazy traps. It was amazing that stack love can do. I mean when i when i did cascades party for sons so he did like an opening set on vinyl and then he also line. I love that you can do whatever you want really catch people remember that you can. Do you literally get to make make up the rules. Man you weird ship grew on more weird shit. Yes if you think you're weird is probably not that weird. I i always think away with this. And i'm like oh no. Helen even reacted. So it's like sticking his way harder. Yeah that's the beauty of it. Man is the yeah the any insecurities you have about your weird idea in reality. I mean the worst thing that's going to happen is like people aren't gonna care than or people just aren't gonna pay that much attention and if that's the worst thing that happens that's fine if that's your baseline it can you know and then definitely been there. I mean i can handle that very uncomfortable with that. I got a couple more things. I gotta make sure. I talked to you about one thing. I absolutely have to talk to you about because i was shocked. I didn't bring it the first time around. Was we got it we to talk about the simpsons for a minute. Because i know you are and it's a yeah you got the bart and you've mansell phones. That's barfoed. I'm gonna grab it. How do please please. I'm so excited how it's a different. You know the best part i. I thought you were pointing to the other bart behind multiple. Burt phone amazing. Is it functional plugged in. Actually i i don't know like like our phone lines even thing. My my parents are proof that yes they are going to be able to get my parents house and then i'll let you know please on broadcast three. We'll do that over the bart's or next time. But but you know all of this retired about silly career. We're talking about the importance of like emphasizing. The fun of it. I really like you know. Obviously i love the simpsons. It's obvious you love the simpsons. But you've leaned into it. Almost as i'm hesitant to use the word branding but you know you kind of incorporated it into your aesthetic in all these ways that against you very authentic and genuine in ways. I don't know not everyone. Does it that cleanly you know what i mean. Yeah it definitely wasn't this contrived like game plan. It was kind of like. I think kinda low key obviously started with my twitch And i think it low key kind of started with just like having to come up with emotes customer boats and i was like just screwing around some simpson's ones i did and then from there. Maybe i'll make the layout look kind of simpson's e too and then that like go with the modes and then people started coming on. Nice goo strong simpson's vitamin here. I like so then. I was kinda like yes. The and then and now like the twitch like we have called the twitch like crew like the board gang. I just saw someone in the chech- shouting out the king. It's been really fun. And i think it's just like that's the thing it's like. I think like trying to come up with these things. Tend to to you. That's how he's like people. Come up with your brand. And it's like i i don't know i feel kind of stumble hunt though. Try because again. This goes back to the things we've already said if you try. If that's your intention is like now. I will invent my brand. That's never going to work. You know it's like you know when people like have a really contrived like what do i call my. Yeah oh my god. Generally put their name summer now with it. Exactly what's up. Cartel gig young bulich scenes or solution. That's actually pretty good. Wanna use that. You can use that snake. It makes no sense okay. Yeah i'll use. That'd be great last. Like that was my thing i was like men people like. I think some people come on this team. They're like oh it's way feels feels cartel sick like i don't even know what's happening here for the simpsons. Yeah i like that. I don't know kind of humor too. I'm just kind of like. I don't know yeah. Haven't i've been doing this like i've been making. Music is two thousand seven. I'm like i don't want him no. I'm just having fun stuff. And i was like we'll just do simpson's till we get sued. Maybe that'll be good. Promo for the st hundred percent. And you're you're part of a long line of beautiful lineage of like bootlegs simpson's share. Yeah i love the lexus. In so much blake simpson's Art show in vancouver one time and it was like one of my favorite night. That sounds all the rate dealer you ever talked to nick. Catch dubs about that. He's big into bootleg simpson's like memorabilia. No i haven't. But i feel like i've seen it seep through. 'cause he was doing all the fools stuff my yes still is. Yeah i i feel like i saw it seep through some of their art sometimes yes one hundred percents them up. A photo of the phone be likes to love that. But okay so a couple more things and by the way for anybody in the chat if you wanna if you wanna ask a question we'll try to answer a couple of questions here before felix gets outta here but you can submit them. There's a link to do that but for for felix my friend what i wanna ask you. This is sort of back to more more advice. Because we gave some advice last time to up and coming producers and i wanted to do a little bit more of it because i think you're really good at dispensing these little nuggets and one thing i wanted to talk to you about and to bring it back to the new album. Expensive sounds for nice people out right now. Hey man gotta do so you worry with tons of vocalists and we talked about that process and you talked about how you kind of have these notes on your phone of maybe themes you wanna talk about. I know you're involved with the lyric writing process. And i think working with vocalists from a producer angle is kind of a black hole to a lot of people and i think a lot of people don't know what's how. How do you find a vocalist to work with. What is the proper way to approach somebody. What's productive way to work with vocalist. And have it. Have it feel like a really fruitful collaboration. And i think you are. Well positioned to dispense wisdom on this. Because you've been doing it for for a while. yeah i'll do my best. I definitely like Sound like there's clear away. I don't think i i think there's a multitude of ways to go about it so just to get out of the way mealy like obviously i have a publisher now so they're constantly connected with writers and stuff if i want to do that. But that's a great thing and that's i only have that had that recently. Yeah that's some of it and but that being said like a lot of my sessions don't go through it's just sorta like met More organically and that would come to. I mean sometimes. It's really as simple as i will. Just send them a message. That will be like if i like a song that they put out and you know. Sometimes i think if you're an artist and you're just starting which i'm probably speaking to more here is finding people that are like more on your level and kind of like working your way up a little bit or but also like finding this the people that you like legitimate like psalm by and then just messaging them and be like. Hey i heard your song today. And i thought was really good and if they like respond back chat a little bit and then just like a lot of people who've been like they'll almost get to it for me they're like. Oh i see like a your producer or something like yeah. This is kinda my stuff trying to do something we should do it and like i. That's like the move with doing a dm also having stuffed ready to so if someone does say yes like having somebody ready to send them you like. Leave him on the. It's like the interest will die pretty quick. And isn't that funny man. Because i'm sure you've seen this with people sending you music or anything Similar to that where it's people will approach you super strongly and be like all. Let's work together or i want to do this. And this and this and then the second you ask them for whatever. The thing is like okay. Can i hear the song then. It's like oh well you know. Let me okay cool. I'll finish it. And i'll send you something in a weaker immediately that puts you in a different category at my head over here. It's like it's like they have the things backwards on to me. Seem like cremona in record or it's like it's like i need to get on my promo line but yeah you probably should record more good. It'll also promote it. Sounds a little bit because people wanna listen to it again. not not jimmy shots but Yeah like the other thing too is like for vocalist reaching out producers. Because that happens to me. A lot is Yeah just having stuff to show is so important. Because i've had so many times people have reached a really wanna do a song with you like a love. Your stuff and i'm like cool like where can i hear your stuff. And then they have nothing. And i'm just like how do i know So yeah just like work on your stuff and then honestly just approach people remembered that. Everyone's just like we're just everyone's just a person and like if you just approach it from like a a kind place of like being a fan and out fan boy but being like just a lover of music and being like i your song was really cool like just want to let you know and then if they and they don't respond maybe you can do. Maybe one more message in like a couple of weeks and then you can move then. He moved to be the person with like eighty eighteen hundred. Dmz neuro look. How did it for you like early. On if you think back to some of your earliest bo collaborations. How did it happen. The first couple of times around Yeah it was definitely. Twitter was a big part of it. Like how would reach people on twitter and then Same thing like my my manager and stuff would help me find people here and they're like oh this person's cool you should. You should try to write with But definitely yes. Soundcloud and twitter was a big part of it a lot of times. You hear someone on someone else's record and go from there and then kinda like once you work with someone you're just kind of like hey this was awesome and then if you had a good vibe if you have any other friends who are writers. Like let me know yeah. That's a huge too. Because then if you have like that's like the easiest way to get in session people like another artists like just like suggests you because then there you're kind of already vouched for right. Yeah it's it's all relationships right. That's when i was in. I did a lot of this album in norway. Yeah so. I was there two and a half weeks raiding a lot of it end. No pre the end of twenty nineteen Just like kind of writing the vocal ideas and then like most production happened afterwards But i think. I was since i was there for two weeks. You know. I think. I had like maybe six sessions booked or something but then kinda like once. I had those as i also just like message. Everyone knows sessions and said yo if you have any other people that you think are with what about here. Let me know. Because i'm super open to it so and then i got connected with hana you'll and jim burke stead and They ended up getting two songs on my record so and i hadn't met them before. But it's selene who had read with a bunch he's like. Oh you gotta read with my friend. Honda and jim because they're awesome. So yeah super casual just like just like back in the vibe and Yeah so. I just like being like a wanna make good songs. I want to have fun and like don't act like you're better than anyone because it's just making me just making songs sure. Well how do you approach it. Because again i i know you write some of the lyrics yourself as well right and you're sort of coming up with the the concepts. How do you kinda thread that needle of. Let's make this a collaboration. Let's make this bigger than the two of us individually. But also let i have. I have this concept. I want to execute. Yeah man. I think i talk about this with lights. 'cause she's collaborate with so many. Edm artists and she kinda like describes it. There's two types of clouds where like the artists who are like really trying to make it so it's like your song together and then some of the ones is kind of like you do the song and then you really talk to them. Yeah and she's always saying that she prefers obviously like i wrote a song. Like i am more than happy to be part of it and then stay involved in things like that and i'm always like the same way like i want to make that artists feel like it's our song not just a guest. I guess Even like as i'm coming up on the song like i'll just like tax people will be like yo we should just like. You should text me this. And then we'll post this text messages like the promo and just like dumb fun shit like that. I don't know just like fun stuff for like feels like you're in it together and i think you gotta remember that he know everyone It's so hard to get songs out there. Sometimes so that like when they finally do happen you want to try and make it special so yeah absolutely man and i think what you're talking about it it's again. We've hit it about a million times in this conversation. It's it's the fun of it right like not not trying to get something out of somebody but just trying to have fun with somebody totally. Yeah that's like it should always come back to like. Let's just try to make a song. We like yes. I sympathize much boss. I love that. Well okay man. I know i've kept you for a long time. I'm just looking at questions here. We got we got One peruvian guy which is a great screen name as boy gang. he's you know He said He said two things one he says. Your album is wavy smiley face. Then he asked about If you're thinking about any glass pedal shows in los angeles Yeah i mean realistically like shows for us probably won't happen to like very end of this year maybe early next year but i wish i had information but it's still sort of like figuring stuff out with the the travel restrictions can't unfortunately of course. Yeah i mean. I want you ready. Are you ready. Do you miss that. The touring part of it. Are you like rare into go at this point. I'm tired of inquiry. And i wanna get. I like vancouver. When i was felt a little more like a tourist in the city unless like i actually lived here you. Are you going to stay there. Because you've always been there man. I do you think after this you would consider moving more. I think i'd just you'll that a little bit because then you're so often and i was so used to not being here so often that yes i think if i get back to normal then i'd probably will go back to dealing like yeah like hoover being close. I love being with my daily. And i was like another nice thing. Kinda mikus You know my nassar's almost three now and it's been fun getting to know him and stuff and catching up. Mr and her husband's you know which is like having dinners every week and like nice to his family and stuff than f. We wouldn't get to do that if i was driving time. So that's been really nice. Yeah that's that's beautiful man and maybe that's maybe that's a takeaway rate is like there's certain things we wanna protect after this period even when we go back to running all over the place and yeah no i'll be like guys. I put in like eight years of work in the last two years. All right fine you'll remember. We've made memories. you watch that. Show that once. The dogs patrolled house. Great off of it all right. Well i'll wrap it up just by quoting. U2 yourself one more time. because i i really like this. I was just growing your twitter a second before he started dying. And you said that someone said to you that they gave you a compliment that you're always grinding and always working on something new and that that made you a little emotional weight wedges. I said it was a slightly dramatic sleep. But of course of course but i kind of love that man because you know from talking to you on this guest off like that's the sense that i get that there's a obviously you said. Consistency is important to you. We talked about last time. I think the malcolm glad well ten thousand hours we talked about how in this quarantine you filled your day with. You know all these new things like is that part of the fun for you like is that is the process part of the fun. Is that why you've been able to like you're very even keeled person about all of this. You know when things are up or down like it seems like for you if you're sticking to that game plan maybe that's part of the enjoyment of it. Yeah i mean. I'm like what am i going to do nothing but some people do do that. You know what it. What do they do all day. I don't know why i watch. I guess. I always try to remember when i was really young and wanted to do music. Gag man it'd be so sick into fuck and go to school and do the stupid essay. This if i could just work on a song this weekend that'd be sway more fun so now that i get to do that. I try to remember that and not take it for granted. Well fuck. that's that's beautiful. I mean. I don't think i can wrap it up better than that man. How are you feeling man. I know i kept you a long time. You feel good. I feel great. This was awesome as such a pleasure. And also i like your new glasses. Thank you buddy. Yeah yeah. I got a couple new pairs glasses gang your glasses. You're always glasses guy. Right not always but i definitely glasses guys. Well yeah you gotta go. Hard on the glasses man. It's just fun. Gotta it's it's a fun accessory. You know it's real fun. Glasses a great. I love it just aesthetically. I mean i'll give you this last complement and then we can go. But i think aesthetically. Also that's something. I've always admired about you and i'm not just talking about fashion. Although the fashioned is very nice but you know from from the fashion to the way you make your videos look to the sound like the you think about aesthetics and i can tell that and i don't think everybody can can tell that and maybe we can dive into that more on par three a love that and i appreciate you free notice and in that lovely complement and also. This was so fun. And i loved music and always down to come back on the show because this is so fun. This is so fun man. I really truly enjoyed this. I love you. It's great to talk to you and You know as this all opens back up. Maybe we can do part three in person alien. Yes buddy i take care. Have a good one bye bye.

felix cartel seth godin calgary willie joy Felix cartel felix kartal wjr bob dylan cowboys lesko Leonard cohen wendy moreno south dakota Mike tyler middle felix club biden
225: Jericho

Back To Back

1:23:53 hr | Last month

225: Jericho

"This is back. Yo what's up backbackers. This is willie joy. Welcome to the show. This is back back. This is my podcast. we're back. How are you how you feel and how you doing doing all right you. You live in good. I hope you are. Hello okay. that's an intro. That's one way to do it. guys were back. It's nice to be back with you. You might be able to tell my voice is a little shredded. Last night i was back in a club. Back onstage back. Dj ing in front of people for the first time. And i mean it's crazy. I i'm in a couple of years i guess. Wow i don't know it was not as weird as i thought it might feel. I felt like it felt like being home so I had a great time but As you can tell my voice did not look guys. We have a great show for you today. Jericho is on the show. Not only co owner of night mode records Who have put out some of my favorite records of the last couple of years but also a streaming a gaming icon who i got big making youtube videos way back in the day and has since firmly established himself as a hiller of the gaming community of the twitch community and is a really really interesting person to talk to because he sits right at the intersection of of music and gaming he has a really unique perspective on everything it was great to talk to him and night mode records his label man. They have been doing a lot releasing music from some of my favorite artists lately I could run down the whole list. There's a lot but You know people like john's people like feed me. People like dwells. Leo tricks alert. There's so many and we talked about a lot of them and many more and many other subjects is well. We were on his home turf. I mean i'm recording all these episodes on twitch and that's homebase for jericho so we talked about what that experience is like you know having every dj in the world invade his home So to speak during the pandemic and what he thinks the future is between. You know the melding of dance music and gaming and streaming and also night mode records his label again Is dmc a free content. So everything they put out. I mean this is important. This is significant It is it is free to use by content creators. You don't have to pay a bunch of money to license a song go through long extended legal battles or pleading or any of that to use it. Everything night mode puts out Is meant for people to use in their content. It is a forward thinking model. And you'll hear jerko talk about. But i think that's been a big part of the label's success as well. N look speaking of pushing new ideas. New sounds new artists speaking of live streaming on twitch. I am calling all music producers. If you're listening to this right now and you make music. I want you to come through twitch channel every single friday. I am their ten. Am pacific one pm eastern. And what i do on. Fridays is i listened to your demos. Your whips your tunes live on stream all you gotta do to submit. Music is to hop in the back to back discord. The link for that is in the description of this episode as well as the link to the aforementioned twits channel and then you just got to show up on fridays and We have a great community of people. Were having so much fun every single week listening to everybody's stuff Music producers are meeting. Each other linking up upping. Their game were given feedback. We're giving constructive criticism. We are trying to uplift people. It can be hard to to get out there to get your music heard so this is meant to to help do that. So come through my twitch twitch dot tv slash willie joy on fridays. If you make music if you want people to listen to your music talk about your music I'm here for you. I'm happy to do it so come through. Fridays and Look mondays and wednesdays on the channel as well. That's where i record this podcast every single week. I'm recording this. Show live in front of your eyes. You can come sit in the audience. You can come ask questions to your favorite artists. I have a pretty crazy lineup of guests coming through. In the next few weeks you will see me posting about it but These are these are some heavy hitters. Y'all don't miss it. Come through ask some questions to your. Favorite artists. Live with me. Monday and wednesday on my twitter channel as well but today is all about jericho. Jericho being the twitch master myself being the twitch Novice i guess you would say. I love getting to talk to people from adjacent but slightly different world than my own. I have so much respect for how much work being a successful streamer takes. It is it is just wild. How much time and effort Jericho spans not only streaming on twitch but putting together his youtube videos. I mean it's it's more than a full-time job. You'll hear us talk about it. It is an art form unto itself. And i haven't gotten to talk to too many people on this show who do that. I mean the only other person really who does it. Seriously that i've had on is cray and Craze actually coming back on the show very soon as well. Keep your eyes peeled for that but It is a whole different hostile and doing it along with working in music man. It is a lot so you know no matter what side of this you're coming from your approaching it from. I think there's going to be a lot to chew on a lot to dig into. And i hope you enjoy it if you do. Of course i would love to hear from you. Of course i would love you to come join the back to back discord Joined the twits channel. Come tell me your thoughts your feedback. You can also hit me up on social media at willie joy at back-back pod as always and i am extremely appreciative of your support With that being said let's get into today's episode. I really enjoyed this one. Big shout out to night mode records Hit the link in the description of this episode to follow them to follow jericho. Keep up today with all the new releases from the label. They've got some heat on the way all right so look. This is me and jericho back to back. Let's go back sir. How are you. i'm good man. You know wednesday Pretty shitty day of the week. Can i i miss. You can definitely curled. I mean i feel like. I'm the one who should be asking you what we can and can't do. I feel like we're playing on your turf air at home field advantage right now. You know. i'm i'm pretty. I'm loose with the rules i play. I play fast and dangerous. So matter of time before twitch man's me. I don't know man i feel like you've been going along for a good clip here. I think you've got some credit with them at this point i do Don't tell the public that They'll be like preferential treatment in the right. I said or get a little preferential treatment. You know just man seniority. Counselor something right okay. Well this is. This is actually the first question. I wanted to ask you a segue to perfectly. So we're off to a great start on a scale of one to ten. How hilarious has it been for you to watch every single. Dj immediately scramble to become a streamer during the pandemic. Equally is funny is watching. The exodus of everyone leave now that they're like oh wait. The thing i actually want to do is back. Let's go to your credit and some other people's credits a lot of people A lotta deejays have seen the value in streaming not just for whatever music stuff they do but also just as a way to connect with fans so like there are some that will stick around but yeah the most of the tax. I was getting at the start of the pandemic. We're very you know if you're my friend in my friends know who they are like. Of course i love fielding your questions but they have people like me and they're like hey man how you you stream and i'm like broad question how do you how do you make music like. What's the deal. Yeah i feel like people hitting you for tech advice on twitch kind of similar to like somebody hitting a dj for guest list. I mean i mean. I'd say it's more like i'd say it's more like me just reaching out and be like hey man so i just have to know like what exactly is your dog. Like your dos settings like how the sausage fan or whatever i made no sense. You're like yeah. Can you tell me you see this compression. Can you explain that. Yes exactly that. And i'm like or the people like you guys. Don't have a studio mike your musician. You'll have one studio microphone. You can use back now. I mean it's it's it's it's what you want to get out of it. you know. Kenny beats is crushing. It right now on twitter and You know eliminates doing a great job. My boy vincent like there's you know there's a ton of people that are that are actually doing it consistently and then you know if you just want to get on some fun every now and then that's cool too. That's still streaming. Absolutely i mean that's that's the whole thing right is whatever makes it fun for you. It doesn't always have to be a job necessarily i. This is a question. I preach on this podcast all the time that i think. Dj's need hobbies. I think not creatives. In general need hobbies that are outside of what they do right like. How 'bout for you because you you know this is. It's you seem like you're having fun but at the same time this is. Your work is what you do for your job. How do you get that kind of work life balance and keep what you do fun. I like to laugh at the. I agree with you. Every creative needs a hobby. Because i am assuming i can speak for the majority of creatives that you start doing something because you love it and then it accidentally becomes your job at that point. You're you're still in love with it but it's not your job and it doesn't mean you don't like your job doesn't mean you don't like that thing as much it's just it changes how it's supposed to operate and And nobody can fix that. Humans right yeah so for me. I joked with a lotta deejays. The grass is always greener. Like i stream six hours a day basically every single day without a break man last like seven years straight and then seven days a week. Yeah wow i took. I took twelve days off last year and that includes like holidays in sick days. And you know man mad. That's like not just quick side note on that you know in dj world you talk about people like dip lower steve yogi the people who are traveling every single day playing some shows a year as like. Wow that you know. They're really gross. But oh sure it's gross but to hear utah. Seven days a week six hours a day. I mean come on time. Commitment is is is crazy. It's a full time job. I stream of over a full-time amount every month jobs. Yeah i mean well no one hundred hundred and sixty hours a month right so technically eight hours a day with weekends. I just burn out. If you do anything for six hours a day you're gonna get tired of it and it's important to relax. Thankfully i live in the beautiful city of los angeles and so we have an infinite amount of things to keep busy so i always you know i go to i go to a bunch of shows. It's gotten a music. It's how i got into the music industry I was at space yacht last night because we had some Hell bound in rebel played. We've released with them. Rebel man love those fun. Yeah i mean that's just that's my fun place right. I let loose and i have my fun at night with my friends. I go out to dinner. I do all that stuff. And then it's back into work in the morning sir. I'm sure although again. I mean maybe this is. We'll talk more about night mode a little later but again i feel like you've done it again man. You took something you like for fun and now you've made it work i listen. My therapist. loves this because she's like what's next. What are you gonna ruin that. You love next and i was like. I don't know if i love anything. I had the capacity to love much more than i currently love music and gaming but like at least with music It can't be my job just yet 'cause like we don't make money from it so it's like considered like a fun project but you're right or on the path. Yeah yeah well. I mean it's good minute course like have you always been that kind of person where if you have an interest in you really need to like. Get inside that interest. You know what i mean. No No this is all accidental. I i've firm not like i firmly believe obviously i have a desire to do well by my my My hobbies and the things that i like. I like to invest myself in them. But you know like like i. I picked up guitar for two months when i was growing up. That didn't work out. Even though i really wanted to learn it didn't work out. I mean there's a lot of things. I picked up and not had interested in it. Just so happens that i mean at for me. The youtube in twitch side of things was giving a lot of I guess feedback. That i didn't get in real life at especially when i started so like that was a very positive thing for me and it made me want to do more of it. So it's kind of like you get rewarded for it. Lot of serotonin. Why not keep doing. Oh absolutely i mean. I think there's another thing i talk about on this podcast all the time. I think it's we all are addicted to this in some way or another right and it's more about sort of how do you channel the addiction into healthy and productive things versus. It's still gonna be there regardless. Yeah and i don't. And i don't think i think whatever is healthy depends on the person 'cause you know you're some of my colleagues. I mean friends. Even that have streamed like three hundred fifty hours in one month. So that is that is like ten has over ten hours a day every day you know and they're like because i like it and i'm like i like a lot of things but not like your but like that's fine for them and they're they're comfortable with healthy. Not healthy for me could not do that. So yeah yeah different. No absolutely man. It makes me wonder you know you were talking about how early on you got that feedback. It was a positive experience in. Am i right. That you're from baltimore originally. Yes baltimore very happy and proud of my my home city but I grew up north of baltimore In a place called palsson okay. Yeah i know. I'm in dc right now. So i'm from not far stop and grounds and you know when you growing up. I'm always curious like where these things come from. I mean let's let's break it all the way down like what did what did your parents do. And what kind of stuff was around you. As a kid were they. Were they playing music in the home. Was there like we tack stuff in the home. Like where did these interests start I didn't. I didn't have a game console until i got the playstation two when i was i believe twelve hour right. And so. I had a gameboy but you know and i had a pc. My mom did a little bit of. It work but not ally was her main thing. I'd like i was the one that was seeking music. I used to like when i discovered lime wire. It became my whole thing of burning. Cd's i. I had a passion for over like a wide variety of music. A lot of metal a lot of rock but then also complete opposite in the spectrum like gabar. I don't know how that happened but you probably right. Yeah no actually lime genghis twenty twenty year like two thousand in three-set live on like what's this this. Yes you're like. Oh that sounds like a metal band right any. I mean in a lotta ways. It was but no my parents. My dad wasn't tech savvy. They never played video games. There was no no no like out side. influence really. What happened was once. I found out that there was a way you know through ruined scape or whatever why was connecting to people and with people on message boards or online in a way that was not able to or wasn't getting from school or whatever had friends but none like i would get on it. I take all my friends only go so that. That's really what kind of kindled it. Because i was like all the social aspect of. This is so important to me. Because i can't really get it or i'm not getting it elsewhere. Yeah i mean so those kind of interests that you had whether it's you know gaming or metal or whatever it was early on were you kind of the odd out in your your social sphere at the time. I didn't tell people play video games. You gotta understand that video games have really only become a cool thing in the last five years and i would even argue like seven years ago. People still laughed at me. When i was like i play video games. I i still can't put my bio two for tinder like gamer right. That's still not cool. Decidedly on cool. But i mean like drake played with ninja catalyst for lot of normal normally people to be like What the hell. I didn't know that. And you know you heard and you heard about people playing call of duty Sports players whatever so. There was an idea that in the past but no. I did not tell anyone that i had a youtube channel until like i had like forty thousand subscribers and we were graduating and i was like and the by. I don't know how you're gonna take out here. But yeah i hit. Yeah no that makes sense man. I mean what about it was youtube. The first thing where you really created content quota. I had a kid who i met. Who lived in los angeles called skittle over. Xbox live and i was making. I was ranting. About how stupid. One of the guns was in Call duty world war. He was like man. That's kind of funny. You should record that and put on. Youtube was like you know what okay i will. I made a youtube video of thoughts of the week. And i was complaining about some call of duty stuff in my bedroom with like an old mac book. That was broken. Like it would spark when you turn it on Beat it was like. Oh i like this. I got fifty views. Three weeks and i was like. Oh my god like that doing numbers in my head. I was like half my class size. That's half my class. Paid attention to something. I did so you know and obviously that group pretty quickly youtube was the first thing i did when i got. I got a lot of like outside pressure for my online friends to do more. Which spurred me to do more things and i got feedback from strangers and started to get traction so that was twelve years ago now. My first video was uploaded august in two thousand nine and did it take off pretty quickly for you know. No i mean all things considered i think people can look at it either way right there are youtubers that have grown five million subs in their first year. That's and that's dope but like that level of attention was not on youtube or creators for a very long time like the most subscribed channel when i started in gaming was twenty thousand subs and it was like miss sonoma right and so when i had five thousand about nine months after the fact there may be a little less than that Maybe you know half a year. Whatever i was to me that was just absurd. Like a meteoric rise because there just wasn't enough the pool is small. The pool is infinite. Now i mean there's so many people on youtube like kids grow up now wanting to be youtubers so fucked up. We gotta stop this. I didn't choose this. come on. yeah you don't that is really a depressing to think. Somebody grows up now aspires to do maybe not youtuber. I le let me backtrack. It's cool to be but that's just creating content. Influencers what i meant like. I want to be instagram famous. That's not i mean. It is a job at like really that's it. That's that's the one great. Yeah i mean. I don't know man it's like when you were growing up. Like what did you think was gonna happen because obviously you didn't have influencers to look at to see like oh this is what a successful version of this looks like. I mean what like even now what does it look like when i retire. Like is there a retirement. Do i do this forever You know i'm still enjoying it. Like there is no set path. Because it's kind of like high. Were were making it right now. So when i started even years after i had started i remember when i was in college so like two years later. My grandpa asks me how long i'd do it for like. I don't know like maybe another couple of years. I could see myself doing it but then like school takes a lot of time. Yeah i dropped out in. Things changed in that a lot mad six months. But there's still thought. Where do you go from here. i don't know. But i think i just want to do more of it. And that was the catalyst for me moving to la. I just wanted to do more of it. it was. It was making me happy. I was getting paid. And i mean if you're able to still feel that way now i think great i think maybe that's the way you keep it fun for your celebrate as like sir. It's it's big time now and everybody's on it and we've got politicians on all this kind of crazy shit but if you're still maybe that's why maybe that's why. This format is so intriguing in the first place. Rate is all these like now. it's mainstream. It's celebrities politicians musicians. Everybody but like you said there's no one knows where it's going yet right like it's the wild west right in wild west. I used to joke with my friend who still does youtube and stuff Not to the same level but still does it right. I used to say like hey man like what we're doing right now in the things that we're doing we're kind of like a ruth or like like one of the earlier ones where it's like people will look back that was super dope like really good. They laid the groundwork babe ruth made like fifty grand. You like manny machado or whoever like fernando. Todd is making three hundred and twenty million dollars right very different. They both did the same thing. They're both very good at what they do. But the difference here is this is just mainstream a lot more money. Yeah i mean. I think just in culture in general the originators never really get there do right. Which which is why. I'm clawing at unlike just around like four years and then i'll promised to leave you alone. I'll disappeared abusing won't hear me again until you're on my show. I'm there but i mean yeah it's it's it's it definitely. It's an interesting wild west. It's exciting to be in for everyone. No matter how bigger small yeah absolutely who was this is just me being ignorant. But who's like the before you who's like the original pioneer of this I mean they're like it would be super dumb of me to say that i am in like even the originator classes did stream before twitch was even twitch tv or just in tv. For that matter. And i was on new stream like really you got to look towards people who are like pillars of community. I mean Dan's game or summit. I mean they're like soda pop in these are people that have been streaming equally as long of not longer but have had a vastly more impactful like career span culturally. You know like the dads are the dip lows of live streaming. They do whatever they fucking white. People still love him. So it's great like they are the ones that have kind of kept the platform from its roots to now. So it's such a new world to me that i'm learning all this backwards. Which is kind of fun. I get to like. We were saying earlier. I get to just be a fan for a second to like. Learn about all this new shit. It's i'm having a blast doing it. I mean for you when you started doing these youtube videos back in the day and your kid and you get fifty views and that feels amazing right. How did that evolve like you said you went to college draft out at college but you are doing videos the whole time right. Yeah like did you. Were you seeing growth with it or was it still just something you are doing because it was fun. I mean yeah. I was seeing growth right but It was so hard in when i got my first paycheck. It was like three dollars and forty cents right. I show my mom and my mom kind of laugh at obviously right us but hey was still money was earned from doing this. So my mom. Let me not argued with my dad to let me not take a summer job but instead focus on making youtube videos which then led me to getting a partnership with sonoma which at the time was pretty big getting paid through there and then it i did see growth but like. Let's not be crazy here. When i left when i made the decision to leave college in december I was terrified. Parents were so traditional as i. Call my god. Dad was like if you're gonna fuck up your life now is a great time to do it because you got no responsibilities and i was like. That's a yes. Okay good advice. Yeah so when. I decided to leave the cattle. The the reasoning was. I was moving into a house in santa monica with four or three my closest friends we were all to split the exorbitant rent. I got a loan for my aunt like it was a whole thing. I think i was making like twenty grand that year. It was we were we were on rahman dollar menu for like two and a half solid solid years before like we got into like the more comfortable lifestyle but that makes sense. Yeah so you moved with all these friends were they all over the country to yeah so one was from Portland oregon. i mean vancouver washington. One was from a champagne illinois Over time from the uk went and moved in with us. I had at one time. There were six people living in a three bedroom house yet. Right so love it. We were and it was like an old shitty plays like ran from montana. Moved in still like yeah all over the place. It was funny enough. It was one of the first content houses if not the first content houses that you know people have now gravitated to making. It was kind of like a An airbnb for any content creator. That couch was always filled with somebody wherever because nobody wants to pay for a hotel room. Yeah well it's interesting to think about so you must have been part of a wave then of all these people trying to do you know trying to make it like as this sort of this platform this art form. Whatever you wanna call. It is evolving. It sounds like all at the same time there. A bunch of people realizing oh this could this could be a movement. Yeah yeah. I think it's always obvious to you when you're involved with the movement because of course like you believe in it that's the whole point around me. It seemed as if i mean this was an obvious thing that was happening. And the growth was exponential. You had Sonoma doing deals with horizon for millions of dollars in the corporate side was getting noticed so when we started doing work with activision for call of duty directly and i was going into the studios. That's when i was like. Oh yeah oh yeah. we're in it. Maybe happening and then disney buys like a youtube. Mc for five hundred million dollars and at that point all gloves were often. It's just been a rat race. Since i mean it's it's wild to see you know like on the ground level just streamers you know you and your peers like that's a whole hustle in itself but then on the corporate level that's like an avengers civil war you know man i gotta tell you i pride myself in being really good with brands with the exception of maybe one or two which will save for never story but yeah i mean like the fun part is working with these companies. Because look like nobody's gonna pay me any more money than like a samsung right to promote their like their budgets for whatever i'm doing our eg nobody reads my line on the expense sheet because we're paying forty million dollars for super bowl ad so it's kind of like it's fun to be in here because he just gets a mess around and people are like. Oh we'll try it and then if it works great and if it doesn't like i'm happy they're like whatever. Yeah no exactly. Yeah that kind of no pressure. Big resource thing is situation a few times as a dj man. It's the most fun shit ever ari stressful. But it's fun when it works. Yeah yeah what's the so. You just made me think about like weird dj gigs. I've done where didn't really fit. What's the what's the oddest brand thing you've done. In the oddest like event. You've let me all right. I think i'll let i'm looking at my chance to see if they have any. But i had one famous example was when i got to the front page. Read it so many times right but like it was called the bucking totino's bucking pout couch bowl and it was during the super bowl right so during the super bowl or at least like the start before the super bowl aired me and my friends like tim the man in gold glove and some other people they put a couch on a on a mechanical bull like a full catch with one strap and the goal was led twits. Check control the mechanical bull cash. While i'm playing video games take turns. And if there's one thing you cannot do it is to give twitch chat any control. Because you know i didn't sign a waiver or anything right. Just get on here murder you. Yeah all right so they spun it around as it kept going going and and it flung me off and i flung upside down in almost cleared the the foam barrier so it's like five feet off the ground initially and then i'm in the air i have landed on my neck broke. My neck liable. Would've been miserable time but like yeah not not great. That is truly some wild west show. That's that's that's like you can never. You can't let the internet control anything right. I always laugh when you see a brand be like help us pick the new name for a new product. It's every single you. You already know what it's going to be a learn. When mountain dew tried to do that in fortune holler at him and it was like like gushing granny flavor for the granny smith apple. And you're just like it's so good man. yeah. I love all of that swell. So how was there a moment as you kind of saw this building in you're broke and you're living off robin and all that was there. Was there something that changed it for you or was it kind of thing that you know. That'd be really what happened. Was there's been a lot of times in my career and i'm sure every single dj or every single producers career where you have breakthroughs that may help you in some way. I mean there are so many different moments that can point to that. I'd say like without that. I wouldn't have gotten to the next here. And there are far more of those at the start of my career than there are at the end because a certain point like those breaks aren't as incredibly large right. So i would say i would say like i probably tribute most of my early or middle growth towards minecraft. I started a series with a couple friends of mine. Well one friend of mine and we slowly added people from all around and it was like a semi scripted thing that was arguably the largest. I've ever seen my you know. I had twenty thousand dollars a day and forty eight thousand peak. And you're like. I got up stadium here watching me play minecraft like okay cool so that helped with popularity a lot and then we stopped doing that separated myself from that over the years things dwindled. And then again. I find myself playing. Some weird game called okeydokey literature club. Fire game just came out on the switch. Maybe check it out. It's a japanese. Dating sim game. Which don't want to spoil anything in case somebody's influenced but i loved. It played that and realized man. I should stop playing only shooters like i should play some other games. I this was fun. So i opened up to a bunch of different games and that helped as well so i don't think that there's any one thing that helps more than the other because i still value getting a out from this dude name. Bsn cool beat pj. Got me five hundred subs and one day. When i only had a thousand that's nuts. Do you almost double your growth in a day. Wow yeah no absolutely. I mean i while you're talking i'm thinking about all these parallels to to the music career that i've known and it's really crazy to man there's between between deejays and producers and gamers and streamers there's all these parallels that i'm sure you've seen to call one hundred percent. The music industry and gaming industry are so intertwined like i. It's it's so easy to relate to you guys For pretty much anything at all. Yeah absolutely well. How did how did love of electronic music enter your life. Post lime wire. Yeah i mean so. I was listening to electronic music during lime wire stuff and then i got really into mash music girl talks. We'll talk like you know milkman. All this stuff. I even tried my hand making mash up tunes and handed out cds. My my space. I went under the name. Dj erect which is great because My last name's boehner. So i thought that highschool me was like yup. This is the one nail that. Yeah but you know. I'm not musically trained. I don't know how to make music. So after i tried to make. Happy hardcore fruity loops six. I was like. I think this is it for me happy. I that was the first piece of vinyl i ever bought was happy hard really two birds of a stone. So or feather burgess. Birds dying birds edwards. The two dead birds bestowed yeah. I i really grabbed i liked. I liked metal music a ton and grew up listening to children. A botum in otis in devil driver and whatever so I saw a lot of similarities in dub step and and and like hard style too. And so i i remember youtube. Montages for call. Duty used a lot of german as A lot of chasing status and Or cameo in crooked so it's like it was so easy to get hit from all these different cultures international wise. I'm talking to your european guys who i'd never would talk to outside of using talking with them about content and they're sending me drum and bass stuff and And i'm like. Oh i've never heard this. So it was really natural to be attached to how diverse electronic music was when i'm so used to listening to such a niece subset of rock and i mean it's crazy on the pod on this podcast like how many. Dj's i talked to have that metal background. Yeah those interests. I mean i was too i band i ever had was a metal band. Did you ever consider going down that route all like i feel like there's yeah 'cause i mean there's definitely. Dj's who stream are. Did you ever consider being a streamer. Who dj's i do. I have decks right. Like i can and i do sometimes throw a little private. I have an extreme account that i'll pop on like once a month and i'll mix and go all over the place but that's for me. I don't like i've never performed last. Not sure. I did some stuff with brownies and lemonade. But like i'm not a dj there. While i can. Dj you put me on a different pair of decks. And i'm like. I don't know where any of these buttons are supposedly my home. Dj set so sure at some point. I think it'd be fun. But that's not why i do 'cause it's fun to dj for my friends. It's fun to have that. I want to just share the music. That i listened with people. It's so nice when you get a good mix and you got like twenty minutes of perfect mixing like go like credit your feeling every time on stage is so infectious it really is the best man and there's something you said earlier. That struck a chord with me. Which is you had this music that you wanted to to share with other people and the same things you know putting out your videos you wanted to share these ideas like i feel like there's a certain aspects active of curation that is in. Yes your bread. you know what. I'm in law. I've been nailed it because even like burning. Cd's for friends off lime wire fifth grade to what kind of music you like. Hey let me show you this stuff. Right i love. I love being a taste maker. Love showing new restaurants and finding it like it gives me a lot of serotonin to have somebody enjoy something i've chosen and so what better way to do that than making playlists on soundcloud or spotify which i was doing far far be before doing anything in the music sphere and i think if anything you you nailed it there is a level of curation that i feel obligated obligated but enticed to do in anything that i enjoy. Yeah i think you know. Maybe we'll hop on and off of this subject but you know that's a good way to talk about night mode because you know that's that's you and your partner in the label an entire roster of ads right and actually picking things are going to be public to the world like. How do you go about. 'cause i think for the podcast. We got a lot of people listening. Who are spiring artists up and coming artists. And that's always the question right of like. How do you approach label. How do i get my stuff. Sign how do i lincoln either entities. What is it for you. Is there anything in particular you look for. Yeah all right. So i do demo review streams just like every sim artist musician on the point is there's you know we get one hundred demos every two weeks or something like that and i love listening to him but it's great to also listen to demos anonymously. What initial reaction are. It's kind of a new tune in in the crowd. I if you are an aspiring artists like is so dumb just make good music man like. Why is that so hard. Just make the best news if you could possibly make right now. Have you considered not making bad music. Yeah i've listened to some songs in their bed. You just need to make good a- no in a non condescending way if you're submitting music all it needs to be at the literal best product you can put out at that moment and if it's not good enough for me i'm not gonna go and tell you like damn you can't believe you sent this. I've had some awful demos like the first song this person has ever made clearly. It's i don't say this sucks. I don't respond at all. It's just part of the process of growing artists and every creative. I assume can do the same thing. I do look three years ago. And i'm like that all is trash. What in the hell did i do. Why is that still public. Does you've made it the same way. So awful man. I have to keep some up. Because they're just classics. But i like i have. Everything prohibited from five years and older. And we're getting to. That time i gotta start like so it was just my audio's bad lightings bad. I'm bad. imagine somebody gets to pull up people like why'd you private all your videos Go back and look at your facebook posts from when you were sixteen seventeen. Okay i have that in video form. Every day that's terrifying. I don't want that. Nobody needs that. We're keeping it locked. Yeah that's probably probably for the best man. That's so crazy to think about. You have a whole documentary swertz of you growing up on camera man so valuable and you can download all the videos. And i've i've uploaded over twenty seven hundred videos to two thousand seven hundred videos on youtube and that is something that you know. You're not going anywhere. I will absolutely be downloading all of those and just having them just in case you know like what if if i ever have kids big what dad was like when he twenty here you go. Here's dad jumping into the snow on camera like you got it. So i think it's just very valuable. I love that man. It makes me wonder too like putting yourself out there that much being in front of the camera so much like what are you. What are you keep to yourself. How do you keep you know how do you your life. Actually your life. You know. Very poignantly timed question here. I'm a person. And i'm a public person. In europe by person can we. I know lizard person. But i and so while i am open and you know i'll let people know like hey like a tweet like hey is a rough week guys right. That's all you need to know. I mean if. I want to open up any more details with you than i will but i have a private life that i'm entitled to and i mean you know if i'm dating somebody obviously everybody knows if i'm if if i if i if i have good food i'm gonna let people know but like if i have a gastrointestinal disease you'll need to know that he decision with you. So i'm like yeah. I have a personal life. But it's not as it's not secretive. I'm what you see is what you get. You can't hide things very well when you're doing them like when you're lives six hours a day. Yeah that's not even just us saying a second ago if i'm dating someone. Obviously everybody knows. That's not obvious for everybody. You know that well. Yeah you know what i mean. That's like. I'm just saying that in putting yourself out there that much it is. It's a lifestyle choice. Yeah to an extent. I mean either way note like i think that i wish a lot that i was Capable of having more privacy. But i mean people know where i live like. I've been here five months. My address is out there. Yeah that's just the. I don't want to say it's the nature of things but it is the nature of things. It shouldn't be this way but it is a lot of it being invasiveness because when somebody spends six hours a day watching you there is that one sided relationship. Where like that you know. There's this pair social relationship that can develop which is never really healthy to have you gotten because you are. You have a level of celebrity especially in los angeles like. Have you gotten weird celebrity stuff. It's like stockers people. Come into your house not not. Since i lived in santa monica we had a younger girl digging through our roots recycling and her mom over there and i was like what the what are you doing so i yelled at her mom. It was so. I was like she was trying to make sure we live there. The other mamas awful but for for the most part. Everybody's respectful i've i've cultivated a very nice group of people that i like to interact with so I've i ran into viewers all the time at music shows. But that's you know the easiest place finding they know i'm there. Yeah yeah that's a good natural place to do it right. You were saying you were out last night. It was that I want to hear your first nights out in a while. I feel like everybody's waiting to get back out there. That was my first space yacht of the season. I went the day. California opened up brownies and lemonade. How to show. And i went and then that weekend i went to exchange for wax motif and then the next weekend. I did nothing in this past weekend. I went to Four am warehouse for sarah landry. Which was just grows an ideal. That's yeah so you've been out there. Yeah i'm right back in the i. I'm all my bullshit again. Once again i am. They said it would never happen. But i'm back. They said it couldn't be done. Nobody that they were all expecting you. They were expecting it. How does it. How is it different for you now. Going out as a label owner like are you starting to think about the music business differently now that you have the label because you started it kinda shortly before the pandemic right so i to imagine. There's a lot of ideas you haven't executed on yet. Yeah no so. We're coming up on. Wow you're right man when you phrase it like that that really messes me out. Because i was like no dude. We started two years ago. And then i was like yeah. That's that's true. Yeah was uncomfortable. So look i think the only thing that's changed i do try to carry myself a little bit more professionally like my number one goal here. I love meeting people. And i love the music that i love. You know if. I can get in meet the artists. They're making that and whatever way that's great but it's never my first second third conversation that i'm like yo you should send me demos or something. That's not appropriate or the way that i like to do it. I just wanna get to know who people and for better for worse people do know that i run the label so that comes up naturally and then we'll talk about it but it's it's no i'm still fan of the music is still go. Only go to the shows. I want to go to It's it's all it's that first business second always on the label. i think is already established. Such a good track record working with a ton of friends of mine a ton of artists. I love like when you started the label. Because i'm i'm getting tossed around here but we didn't even really talk about the idea of starting it yet. Oh yeah which is pretty important ostensibly. That's the thing people might want to know. I mean when you look at that and you look at the idea of starting the label. Like what do you think night mode does differently than other labels aren't doing like how are you thinking about this differently. I mean it's so it's like literally the most obvious difference here and we started the label explicitly because we wanted to make dmc free music for content creators to be able to use. But look there are non-copyright dmc free music channels. Whatever out there however no one wakes up in the morning and says oh boy new. Dmca free zone saw. Can't wait till goal. Listen one right. That's background music. And it has. Its time in place. But i want to release good music. That is that is that people wanna listen to for no other reason than it's good. I just want the option to be there for anyone that wants to use it because i grew up content creator like as a content creator and i know the value of having something like that. Even if you're not using it in the background ever youtube videos as you would normally for a background track you listen to it. You enjoy it like. That's all that i care about. You said your ultra song. Whatever so the number one priority here and we've had to say no to so many artists because there issues with publishing and whatnot like huge artists. That i would love him to sign like we have to protect the content creator so emc a free for every track as best we can manage. The music's legal system is such a joe my convoluted and even now. I'm like i still don't even. I'm pretty sure we're we're good right like i mean we have right. Yeah we have lawyers on it. but it's just. It's such a simple thing that we're doing it's free. Anyone can use it. No licensing required and i attribute a lot of the success of the label to that and people use it. Yeah absolutely man. I mean there's such We already talked about you. Know all these links between gaming and music do you like personally. I remember games. I played early on like you know. People always talk about tony hawk and that sort of thing like there's certain games where the music was such an important part of it and i actually discovered so much music as a part of it. Yeah need for speed underground at littlejohn. The east side boys get low. First time i heard it was it was around two was drag racing and me and my friend saw love with it we wait. We missed title. So we waited like thirty five minutes and the soundtrack deluca so we can write it down and go download online lime wire. You know i agree with you. Racing games How pivotal is a racing game soundtrack. How pivotal fevers soundtrack menu music. It's all part of the experience and even in game when you have a cinematic. Whatever it is. Music and gaming are inseparable so it sucks to know that especially now at the wave of mca take downs out from major labels which all of these companies are licensing for. But you don't get the same permission to stream it. I have to turn the music off. You how weird. It is to watch a cut scene in it silent except for characters. Downs there a club. People like this in my head. I'm like you man. I'm even create. I don't know man the labels it's archaic system. I could go on and on about this. But it's it's so funny to me because i talked to somebody like you and you know just from our own personal experiences. We can see how important and how impactful music in gaming is whether you're playing a game whether you're streaming all of that and to me. It's so obvious that labels would see such a huge benefit if they just turned on the faucet and we're like yeah use whatever you want to me. It seems so obvious. There'd be a huge benefit there but the double edged sword. Yeah because because if they do that then then then people are going to listen to all their favorite music and not just mind. You're right like it's it's. I've been lobbying for forever about this and it's just such a i mean it's this is kind of a tangent but monstercast ten year anniversary was recently. I've known darlington since before. Monster cat was a thing You know he was bouncing the idea of me. When i was in my mom's basement because i asked him for creative commons or like rights to distribute for my music or main four. My youtube video Us tidbit of song used. I was like. I need to get explicit. Legal permission signed an agreement. All this stuff so i knew about the dangers. It's just like here. We are still fighting the same fight and we will fare another thirty years or whatever it is create between you and night mode and monster cats out out the monster cat. I mean there's there's very few labels in the dance music world. Who are doing it like this. And it kind of blows my mind. Yeah i mean you you start to get a license for monster cat To to use some other stuff and they released a lot of stuff like the cascade stuff you can't be quarries of course yeah of course but like you're right. I mean outside of them. You're really just dealing with the copyright free groups and you can't i mean there are some labels that are waking up to it like the group. The midnight is is is opening Yeah yeah sable valley think is a free so i mean out are a one time but it's just like it's basics it's simple it's it's free real estate take right. It just seems like you know. As long as we're in this wild west atmosphere you might as well might as well. Just turn on the faucet man. That's all i'm saying right. Just turn it on. Let let us drink. I'm thirsty down here. We're dying man. Someone who chad just said yeah guitar hero and rock band. There's all this henry you sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt play either exactly. Yeah it's crazy to me. I you so you had the guitar. Hero streamers like playing custom songs that are just like playing really quiet. And how awful is that. It's so hard. It's so weird. Man i will say you probably know this but for the people who don't guitar hero and rock band all. Dj secret was that they they release them or leaked but all the files. All the stems for the songs in guitar hero and rock band leaked so like there are folders. I and i have like the for like system of a down and slave nut. I had no idea crazy. I'll send you a link later. It's crappy so no wonder all these. Dj tools use the same the same set. Now that's crazy idea man. Yeah i don't know how it happened. I'm sure there's a crazy story. But how does all music at lea- yeah right. Yeah somebody sends something eternal problem and well. What was you know for you. What was some of the first deejays musicians. You linked up with out in la. 'cause obviously like you and dillon francis done a bunch of stuff together you and i mean there's a bunch of people i could list but but how did they start so when i moved back to l. a. looking for apartments and i got a dm from a musician that i had liked vincent And he was like you. I saw your in. La you wanna grab roman. And i was like funky like graham and so we met up eight rahman like hit it off. Watch the women's world cup game. And i was like this guy's dope i knew friend in la. I haven't even moved here right. I have friends in la. But i wasn't super close with them. And so we started hanging out. Rabat's dating a girl named cheney at the time cray yes shannon on. Yes shell cray one time. She's my best friend We hung out a ton. I mean for for we just hung out a ton and so i met them. I met their management Vital management. So i met a bunch of people through there and then straight up. I went to every single show that i could like. Everyone paid for ticket brownies. Lemonade just went. I love music. I wanted to be involved. I just wanted to go out and see it. I went alone. I went with france. Didn't matter vincent was playing brownies night. I'm i've been showing up there for like modest and so like you know you have a little bit of cloud. I'm verified so. I'm tagging brownies and lemonade and instagram. I know you see me man. So they knew of me when they met me through. Robin shady met. Chad met that whole group in cushion for net. And it was like okay. We're friends now so it was a lot of just meeting up with people and now Great friends with keizo. Great friends with you know i. It's a guy it's just. It's not like i made any intention or effort to do so. Just end up meeting people so if you want to meet people in the industry just become friends with a dj easy and then you'll get to know all the dj absolutely but what you're talking about. I think we could apply this to anything not just not just streaming not just gaming but kinda any way you want if there's someone you want to build a relationship with or if there's a scene you wish you were a part of right. That's that's like the secret. That's not actually a cigarettes. Just like if you treat people like people and just you know. Hang out with like what don't like. Don't put anybody on a pedestal. It's not it's not that. I'm not a fan of of of dylan or keizo or vincent or crate right. Like i love their music i do. It's just that. I had a different perspective. Because i didn't. I know the type of people. When i enter you being little fanny like that's cool but you're on this distance because you're not like this isn't a friendship kind of thing You put a wall up between yourself. So i knew i know that. That's not something. I like so of course. I'm never going to do it to anybody else. Maybe maybe three photos of and dylan not taken by press right. 'cause i'm not hanging out with them like that's just not a thing that anybody cares to do. So it's just don't be don't suck and just be open to meeting people like that. Your advice for artists. Don't make bad music. Your advice for people is don't suck right nice for streaming is. Don't even try so we'll just we'll just hit the gamut here. You go understood Like earlier on in life. yeah. I got a good. I got a good story So dumb nation. is a Or i'm sorry him what's their name. I don't know dumb. Nation was the name of a a a night. For steve's promo that's what it was in taus in maryland read. It was all ages show at the wrecker A ski like eighty cab hundred cab bar maybe one hundred and fifty And tickets were like fifteen bucks. So i started going because i realized i could hear some of the songs that just came out but like live and my mom would drive me there and pick me up because it was close twenty minutes away so i convinced a bunch of my friends to go. There's some photos of young me in the crowd because the resonant dj. there was a smash. Gordon steve gordon who now asli now formerly uta or whatever like incredibly large dude. So i went to a show convinced a lot of my school ago. This was Junior senior year of high school and they all show up. We all show the doors because we're idiots and we don't know any better and and everybody left because like somebody who's playing like ambien like actual dumpster very chill and they're like this sucks moore. Steve gets on froze like blue skies from flux on. And i'm like i right. And then at the end of the set he he's he's throwing physical cds in cd cases. Smasher fucking face inviting three hits me in the face with it. Call it like this is ironic. I listen to that. Cd a bunch. Because it was great. That mix. But yeah i was gonna shows by myself to for like ix and You know nina. Las vegas and read speed. Nobody wanted to go see rene's dope so legendary. Forget about steve. Gordon too and i mean for anybody watching right now are listening to this later. You know he's one of the biggest booking agents in dance music point but yeah he. He started off as a grimy. Dj i mean yeah and i told him this told him the story in the back of coachella bus going to hate in coachella performance. A couple years ago fucking wasted. We're going toko right. It's like dark or coming back from l. Everybody's tired. Like steve and he was like what i tell them the story and he's like okay. That's heathens dislike. Shut off. i need to get it off my chest. I had to tell so funny like now. Steve were chill Talked to him now and then no great it well. Here's a question for you. I asked this to a lot of different deejays producers and it's become kind of one of my favorite questions to ask anybody recently. Do you know what you're doing. Do you feel like you know what you're doing. Because i think anybody you get to a certain point. There's definitely aspiring streamers. Who look at you. And they're like man he's got he's got going on. Does anyone really know what they're doing. I have a good idea of what i'm doing in life right but to say that i have an idea of what is the best pass to do anything. No i'm just kind of fumbling around in the darkness and most of the things that i ended up doing for better for worse i have fallen ass backwards into. I do believe that luck. Plays a huge part in everything but i believe that everyone is given opportunities to some extent. And what matters is what you do with that. Chance luck if you're in the same room with diplo like what. Are you going to do with that. That lucky chance. You're gonna walk up and give them a usb or are you going to not say anything but friendly talk with them like what's your play here doesn't matter like you shouldn't spend all night thinking about that but There's gonna be multiple. Instances like that and your life me. Making label was a similar instance. Dan my co-partner reached out to me to do a disciple compilation. He was just like. I think this could be a cool idea. And i was like. I hate dub step but like whatever. Let's try it. Because i've always wanted to do something like this we did. It did so well that he offered the idea to run the label with many. I can't run a label. i didn't know shit about music until or like legalities. Until now. So and i'm still learning so so when was the what was the deal with. The compilation was at uky rating again. Yeah i got seven or eight new songs in seven or eight releases of old songs I chose pretty much know dub set but either way They released dan. It was the most successful album released disciples ever had which dope but also kind of like terrifying 'cause now there's this onus that what if this was a fluke we're starting a label around the idea that we can manage to curate something like this. It worked out all right. I think it's working out. I don't know we'll talk to me in ten years and i'm pretty sure it's working out right now. I think we're we got a good thing going. I mean so this is the question then like if you say you know. I don't have it all figured out for what you're doing personally. What are you thinking for the label. What i'm sure you've got ideas percolating. I'm sure you've got plans you're working on. I mean and this is not like what are you. Got coming up next but know where do you. When's your next album your. When's the next album java. Not that never that. But no i mean where. Where do you see the label going. What are some goals. Some ideas you'd like to hit for the whole this is. This is my idea of music. That i think is good. We have some straight pop like electro pop tracks. We have some hard style and like dark techno like it is whatever i'm feel like and i hope you guys like it and if you don't sorry but i do hope you like it and i wanna help you know. Share that with people. I would like a big thing for us this year. Cova for everyone sucked but Vessels coming back. I want my damn marquardt. Abc like there are underneath insomniac. We were independent but they do help a distribution and stuff and what they're great. I want an our car. I've they gave monster cat narcan. I wanna i wanna get more physical. I wanna do a night mode show. I wanna do with brownies and lemonade. I wanna like. I wanna do more physical stuff and livestream it on twitch while we do it because i think that's sick. It's a fun way to combine the world's and not everyone can fly in from europe to go watch a sweaty warehouse show with like some of artists home. I want i. That was pretty much the main goal when we started our twitch stream was how do we do live. Sets like real live sets not recorded and played live. But like we're at the club tonight. The what you see is what you get. And we've done a couple tests and stuff but yeah i just want more physical stuff. I want to be able to take take what we've built and say like we have a group of people that like are whatever the fuck we're doing and i wanna see you physically you know. Drink a normal amount a safe amount and enjoy yourself at our event. That's what i like that man. I mean it's throwing events a whole nother dimension. Oh no yeah no. I don't wanna throw the event. That's i was like. I'll give it to brownies and lemonade. And they will throw the event. And then we'll show up giddy. Like i guess live spots to give out to turn people down. It's gonna be exciting. But yeah i love all of that man and i mean i said this before but i'll say it again i think the curation on the label has been fantastic thing and just the not only the range of sounds but just. It's i mean you're working with a lot of friends of mine with a lot of artists. I really love what was. Was there an early white like you had me kind of early right. Femi was supposed to be our launched song. I like i am such a big feed me fan. I went to see him in boston with kill the noise. I drug my friend. I took my friends to kill them or to that show and showed them. I was a sick. It was the teeth or so the have femi. Ice took a shot in the dark right. I have his team. Come back. And be like yeah. We're down with this. I was shit myself. Man in a long time. Since i fell anything that cool and our first track we had some issues with scheduling but unlike pluto feed me hero was our fourth release. I think in I'm friends with luke and so that was like the first working with a person. I knew And ever since it's just been a combination of people that have zero followers Who we've actually released like the first on with them Too young to Like once god who's blown up from one hundred thousand monthly listeners. Seven hundred thousand and and just do like seeing artists grow especially Underneath us more. Kiss mets i million streams song was. You should run with pauline her in the net one gotten a fortnight like all. That is so sick. Yeah well. I mean you've not not to pump very podcast that you're on right now but you know a lot of these artists. Were on this podcast. Well and it's the there's something going on man where i think. A lot of people's brains are opening up to the idea that you can listen to a bunch of different styles and sounds the dance. Music scene for so long has been so seaney if you know what i mean you know. It's like right if you listen to this. You can't listen to that if you know. No mixing of the things. People stay at one stage of the festival the whole night and i really hope. I don't know if this is going to happen. Because i'm skeptical person but i really hope like coming out of the pandemic everybody's watching live streams getting a little weird opening up and i think the label night mode is part of this where it's just like yeah we can. We can open this up little guys. We bright listened to a lotta shit. How am i supposed to compete. If i wanted to do. I love house music and i love techno. I love both of them to death. I but i grew up. I went all my shows. Here trap oh my god old trap music is is the is the tips and so i like site trans sometimes right and i love dnb. So there's so much that i love. It's hard for me to understand. If you don't love more than one genre. And i get it but i still want to like somebody only eats chicken tenders. Like i don't want you to try something else here every now and then and see if you like it yes healthy to just chicken tenders. It's not healthy to stay at the base pot all day. I promise you there's like you can go to neon garden and not die. I you might not like it now but when you get five years older you probably will. I mean it's i agree. It's it's always gonna clicky. You're always going to have this identity. People base their identities or get fond of the community. Look at it. Lenny among sixty thousand so that is like those people love lent him. That's dope and some of them do like other music but that's cool. You're always going to have that. Core community is just pushed. Your mind's a little bit further and just like try. Things are not comfortable with. Because i take people too hard style stage. Jdbc wasteland because there's no place more happy nobody's there that doesn't want to be there except for the friend that i brought right now. I can't do this. And i'm like you give me five minutes. And then they'll see them. You know left right. I'm like and like okay i get. It's pretty cool eight years start though. And i'm like all right we can go but i share that right. There's fun out there i mean. Let's let's run down a. You may not have a story for all these artists but just because i love some of these people. Let me just throw a couple of artists that you see if anything comes to mind Recently a one of my very close friend. You put out a record from johns. Who i love. John got to hang out with him at the brownie. Show the dnb brownie show joe. Johns formerly of john's. I was listening to them ages ago right so once. They stopped making music under that John's came back with this really built. Modular track. I think it was i think it was an ep on sable house of god and psycho and i'm such a slut for acid i am like oh man so i heard it and i was like. Oh my god. He's actually like making good modular like hard-driving music that i could see people latching onto and so john's just he's actually being managed under cardinal with some of my friends they out and when they sent it out loud i said oh fuck yet has since i sent in a an email but the funny thing was because it's my friend i was like yo you know. I'm a huge for john's. The autocorrect and google for sim said fan. And i was like. I was like not in this email. Not email and that track is great. I mean john's. He goes crazy with the rack. Mounted the analog year still have you seen his studio setup. I that's why i was like. Oh he's in it in it like this is. This is some good good. He's not lying to anyone. Yeah no he's not fucking around another -nother guy like bet who i will throw it. You now is hell bound So hell bound got into him because he was making. This is a great story. Got into him because he was making some really cool. Sound design trap music under tassie on. Which was you know his project. And so i mean he was making some heavy shit. I think even had a track in halloween mixed tape or whatever so the funny thing was cheney cray and myself have one day were drunk on stream and cheney was just like i like pesto pesto. Boyer you fuck pests. Pesto boy for whatever reason are chats ran with it still boys is are like friendship. Do but i mean entry. Oh rob was vincent was in. Everyone's pissed fast forward like a year and there and somebody is like you can't believe they're ripping pesto boys from tassie on and i click on. I'm like i know. Tassio up. Tested i click on it and his fucking bio said pets like lover of pesto. Pesto team or something. Like that. And i was like. Oh so i didn't change anything. But and then he put out this ep with noise and another track. And i really love the way that noise kind of Felt and so. He was one of the first artists that i reached out to for For our our initial like season of releases and of course still to this still to yesterday. Love the guy. Yeah yeah he's great wasn't he just playing it space. Yeah was that yesterday. Yeah yeah yeah man out to help out. I haven't talked to him. And i love that guy How about another feel like. There's probably a story here eliminate. Yeah nate's managed dan. Dan is daniel's my co founder. He part owner of a disciple manages eliminate manages not to As mas a couple other people so that like nato funny guy he's another person that is just doing streaming correctly. Yeah man it's crazy and he's so good i love sounds and stuff he made that song onstream and we we slide it in To like like a very tight window last minute. And i remember going to bed the night before came out seriously thinking. I've done this to this song and to You should run with more kismet. I i remember going to bed thinking like fuck. I hope i didn't make the right call on. This isn't too wacky for them. I was still trying to because most of the music point have been pretty. you know. Nate nate makes fun. We're music of those songs. Have million plus so we did a good job on that but still. I hope it works. Yeah it was. It was so good. And i've loved seeing him become this like streamer personality. Like i don't even know he's a multi hyphen it at this point like i don't know what category i'd put him in because the music entertainer. Yeah he is similar. He is most similar to dillon francis. Where whatever they're doing is just an epic to has been making some funny stuff just just entertainers. That's right well. How about how about more kismet. S- now that you bill more kiss met. I met very briefly during their first brownies and lemonade performance and their their mom like in passing. I was just like i love music. By how crazy they were fifteen at the time so to have a fifteen year old in a nightclub hard as it is to have them pop off like that and have such an interesting sound. That's great and then i like. The song is with paulina pulling her and it's good. It's it's everything. I love about the earlier soundcloud experimental days. It sounds like somebody had fun making it and it's two very different songs from the first drop to the sec in i was like this is the one and if you listen to more music. It's definitely kind of changed throughout their career. But they're making some really hard stuff. This was the softest unmade ever made. I believe at the time and I was just like i. I was just like. I love this song. We have to. We have to make it work so that one Also just love everything that they do spreading themselves. Their joy their incredible. Yeah one of my favorite episodes of this podcast from last year was with more kismet. And yeah no. They're they're just an incredible town. Incredible person it's so exciting. I mean first of all. It's just fucking frustrating. When someone is that good at sixty two times. I've gotta go get outta here now. No it's so inspiring because like you said the music is changing so quickly and you can see them evolving. And they're growing up right and i don't know there's something exciting about that energy because i remember when i was fifteen. Sixteen music meant to me way that now. It doesn't because we're old and jaded right. Yeah it's Innocent almost And and that was very alluring and very I'm impressed by their ability to handle how much they're going through at like career wise to just in general at a young age because i was a mess when i was sixteen. And they're and they're not they're taking two. Am shows on weekdays. I just. I don't know how to do it but Yeah you're right captures that sort of. There's only fun involved here. Yeah one hundred percent well one more one more artists and then will kinda start wrapping it up here but i have to mention it just because i love this man is link. I saw last night. I burned his mouth with a pizza on fault. Yes so he's great I actually was a fan of lax. Which was his other artists for a while. He made the loudest fm music. I've ever heard believe i in your life like i don't even people joke about the loudness war. You already lost ages ago. It was his sold out. And i mean that's a real thing like the loudness wars people joke about. But there are producers who stay up at night trying to figure out. How can i get it point one decibels louder than the next guy and yeah last has been doing. That link has been doing that forever. And so I they were another situation like hell bound where they only had two songs out And i was like. I love this kind of speed house Feeling and I i was like okay. We've got to jump in on it and make it work. I think was at the same time that we were talking to alert. And i was just on this. It was it was like energy music music. That makes that really. I was i was craving at the time and and link once again has been making some really fun music really fun up tempo. So running the label so far what what has surprised you about running label. What have you learned so far that you didn't know before i mean. Let's leave all the boring stuff of like how to actually run the because that's self explanatory file format to the distributor. Oh my god. Yeah i am. I am not surprised but once again of how nap nap. Nepotism runs rampant in the music industry. And it is disheartening to to know that there are some things to get preferential treatment because of politics whatever Show one time spotify. Actually like now that. They've shifted to more algorithm stuff. We get a lot of love from them. Almost every track and create deers which is great and an additional stuff but that aside been really really surprised to find How not surprised how different every is in their creative process. What they're capable of doing like st johns. I was like e santa's that song was a half finished. No second have like kind of bare bones. And i was like i fucking loved the song and he goes Gimme gimme a week okay. And then he sends that back and then others. You chase them down. He chased him down then. This needs to be tweaked. And miss seventeen deadlines like parasite. The song almost got pulled the day before it came out. Because there's so many moving parts with having three such three incredible in very artistically passionate people working on one track that thing was like we were real closed in like dan. Away is one of my favorite people. I love him to death. He's good friend of mine so it's just like a labor of love in that regard and It's just it's i guess people are different. Who knew everybody's different rising. Yeah well you think that somebody you think that people sit down every day to make music but that's not the case like maybe you just don't make music a couple of days maybe sit down five minutes and bang out entire song. It's yeah it's a process. Yeah it's a it's a whole different world so let me as we kind of. Wrap it up here man. Let me turn it back on you for a second in in what you do right now. There's another question i try to ask. Everybody i talked to what is was the most fun part of what you do right now. Is the most exciting part. What do you look forward to like. What keeps you here doing what you're doing man. I love creating stuff. Right i have. I like entertaining people. And i like doing. I like the feedback that i get instantly from doing twitch I i think a lot of people you go through creative droughts and i'm currently definitely in one. I'm trying to find what i want to actively focus on right now. What does that mean. just. Because i'm ignorant what does that mean for a streamer to be creative drought. Because you're still dreaming right. I mean i make you to right. So i mean we're right so you can you can it on and you can get on and turn on the stream and do whatever you want. But that doesn't mean it's gonna engaging i mean there's production quality stuff that you can enhance. What if i need a new intro. I i've been doing this thing where i'm making little ninety second commercial bumpers for when i go to the bathroom every week like there is a lot of stuff that like. I want to do. More and more creative or more interesting so for just trying to make all that happen is draining. Yeah i can imagine so. It's funny man because again all these parallels between dj's gamers and when when. I had shady on the podcasts cray. She was saying the same thing. But you people think you just hop on the stream upload a funny video and that's it right. there's so much that goes into it that people don't realize even as making little bumpers while you go for you going to the bathroom like mental energy that takes. I'm out of your day right. Yeah i mean i. It's not that it's sometimes it's easier than others. But i think every job has a level of stuff you do behind the scenes that nobody sees. And everyone's gonna always see streaming as sitting down and playing video games just like everybody's gonna see dj as hitting play like there's nothing you can do unless you unless the person actively wants to find out about it to convince them otherwise. That's cool very comfortable at this moment in time with the way anybody would see what i'm doing it's not it doesn't bother me. I'm too old to be bothered. I've been doing this too long. I'm an old man. Get off my lawn. I love it. Well what are what are we talking about goals for the label. What our goals for yourself and what you're doing whether it's personal goals career goal as anything you want to talk about I just bought this place on thirty years in debt. So i'd like to figure out how to speed that debt congrats. Dan thank you. Yeah i love it What i personally would like to Continue to find a way to enjoy myself doing this. Because i have no desire to stop. This is a part of my life and it has. It's been for almost half my life. I just want to continue to find ways to maybe innovate and push push what i think is good content out there and then also i just wanna be able to have fun and whatever i'm doing so it's not it's easier said than done though. Yeah of course it is man. I think that's the theme of this. Whole conversation is It up into easy rules. Like have fun don't suck etcetera but sometimes it's a little more complicated right. Yeah exactly all right man. I'm going to ask you. The last question is the same question i asked at the end of each one of these episodes. It's just as simple first thing that pops into your head question just looking for a time in your life a moment a memory. When in a single moment music really had a deep impact on you really affected you deeply and that's meant to be super broad. There's no wrong answer. I remember. I remember being in a man. I i remember going to dinner with a. I'm gonna leave everybody's names out of this because it doesn't really matter. I remember getting a text from somebody who i knew was an artist and they knew me and we were. We were friends but like we never really talked. That much was like yo. I'm heading out of town tomorrow. You wanna grab dinner with me in these guys and i was like. Oh yeah like. Of course i would and i got there. I got to meet like Somebody who was like an management side of things and other artists and a couple other people like a guy from publishing. And i remember sitting there in a fucking mommy burger being like this is what you wanted like gear you on ironically got asked to come spend time in the music industry in like the actually industry. Not just like right. There's people that are in the industry and then there's people that do this shit and make the industry what it is and i was. I was like. I felt accepted. And that i was on the right path and like the things that i wanted to do. Were happening finally and that was like four years ago so that was probably like the moment whereas like oh okay. We're doing worrying there. Yup yup that just makes me think about community man like it makes me think about you moving to l. a. With a little group of of france gamers cambridge trying to make it at the start right at the end of the day for me. That's where it comes back to you with any of this shit is community and finding the acceptance of of peers and people doing the cool shit that you're also excited about the same way you like to burn cds for people and just get excited about it find the people who are excited about it in the same way to me man. That's the most beautiful shit i think. That's why any of us do what we do. You really well communities important. And i love being a part of as many as possible and whichever one the most fun. I'll be there. Yeah man fun is fun is the watchword for this entire podcast. I think right well. This has been fantastic. Do thank you for taking the time. Yeah thanks for having me. I know we talked about it a while ago. But glad we got everything sorted and It's been a pleasure i love. I love seeing all the great names and faces that you have on your man. Yeah well we're we're not slowing down. Either i feel similarly to you. And then like i don't know where it's going but it's it's gonna keep going somewhere awesome. I'll be looking forward to it. I'm sure we'll both be here for a while. Oh you baby and yeah looking forward to what you do at the label as well thank you. I'll try and impress you. We've got some good stuff cooking in the in the fall. Yeah i'm definitely send me that all i'll shoot promo grades and talk to you. Thank you awesome. Thank you and take care piece these.

youtube willie joy jerko Jericho jericho jericho baltimore steve yogi manny machado los angeles sonoma twitter ing willie okeydokey literature club
226: Quiet Bison

Back To Back

1:55:24 hr | Last month

226: Quiet Bison

"This is back you what's up backbackers. This is really joy. Welcome to the show. This is back to back. This is my podcast. How are you how you feel and how you doing. It's nice to be back with you. I'm doing all right. I have been busy this week. I don't even know of busy. Is the right word. But it has been packed. I just recently man. I felt like there is no extra time for anything. Every hour is being taken up. It's not necessarily a bad thing. I've been spending a lot of time on my twitter channel. And if you've been listening to episodes in the last couple months You will know the twits channel is what's going on with back to back right now and if you would like a more interactive version of this show. I highly encourage you to come follow me there. Come say hi. I am recording this. Show live every week and in fact. That is how today's episode was recorded. My guest today is quiet. Bison a lot of people excited for this episode man. I'm really happy to have him on quiet vice in just released a new remix presents dead that he did with the new. He's got a new single called it. Even featuring pauline hair and Another single that. I'm not sure if i'm allowed to tell you about. But beyond the lookout for that as well all of this is leading up to an eventual release of his upcoming album We talk a lot about the album in this conversation that you're about to hear but suffice it to say there's a lot going on with quiet bison Extremely talented guy and you should go follow him. Keep up to date with everything he's doing. There is a link to do. Just that in the description of this episode as well as following me on my twits channel If you had been doing that already you could come through well. Quiet bison and i recorded this chat You could've asked us some questions. Talk to as well while we were talking I really like recording. The show live with all of you in the audience. All of you in the chat may lot of cool new friends connections sand speaking of megan connections with musicians Building a little community. You know. I do other shows on that channel. Is well every single friday. If you are a music producer. This is important every single friday. I do a show called dewitt. Bang where we are listening to your music. Your demos your whips. Were giving you feedback. There's an awesome community of producers Already there who hang out with us every single week people are meeting each other following each other. Maybe even working with each other. It's been really cool to see. I really love hearing your music and trying to help you out with ideas of how to finish it how to make it better whatever. It is whatever kind of feedback. You're looking for I'm here for you. That's every friday at ten. Am pacific one pm eastern. I do that show with one of my best friends who happens to be an amazing comedian. So we're also just having a blast cracking jokes. it's a great time come through there. I'm d- jiang on twitch. Look if you've listened to this podcast recently. You know the deal. The twits channel is a big focus. Right now i'm putting a lot of effort into it. And i'm really having a great time hanging out with all of you guys on there but enough about me today is about quiet bison at the top of the interview that you're about to listen to but i didn't really know what we were going gonna talk about. We had never met you know. Sometimes when i talked to somebody we have all these mutual connections and you know just common ground that you can kind of start a conversation with. We didn't have a lot of that but We ended up talking for a long time. There's a long episode so yeah great connection really interesting guy Love his music extremely unique producer. And someone who you can tell Even though he's already making really advanced music and forward thinking music is also just getting started. So there's so much potential. It's really exciting One important thing to note about this episode for some reason. I don't know why this happened. I didn't change a single thing about my setup. I hadn't You know move stuff around. I literally nothing had changed. Somehow my audio on this guy got messed up and I just i sound a little distorted. It sounds like i'm kind of red lining my mic. The whole time truly no clue how it happened. I tried to figure it out for a long time. Couldn't do it same setup. Nothing changed ghost in the machine. I have no idea but Just letting you know. I sound like I'm just a little base boosted. You know the the base boosted videos on youtube. Yeah that's me this episode. Not a big deal but Disney case you listen to this episode and wonder why it sounds like i'm I'm distorting The whole time. Because i was angry. It's not. I was shouting. It's just because. I had a ghost in the machine and that happens sometimes So shout out to to the ghost who was also apparently involved in this podcast but Look guys. I hope you really enjoyed this episode. I hope you're doing well. If you do enjoy this episode of course always let me know on social media. I am at willie joy. The show is at back to back pod if you want to support this show You can always help. Spread the word. You can always follow me on twitter right now. That is a huge way that you can support me as well. I appreciate all that support. It really does make a difference. You can always come hang out with me on the discord as well. The link for that also in the description of this episode really enjoyed this conversation and I hope you enjoy it as well. Let's do it. This is me and quiet. Bison back-to-back lesko food. Some japanese japanese drinks. Are we talking about. I don't know if it's japanese by went through japanese market and i got The car is sweat. Oh yeah yeah. That's that's that's actually really good. They really like daniel. Curry is another grapefruit thing. I know which one have you been to japan ever. It's crazy my when you go. They have a vending machines every vending machines everywhere. Razi sodas and all these crazy like the. I've only been there once. But when i went there is like me and wookey and a few other people and we every time. We passed one of the vending machines. That was the deal is like we had to get a different weird. It's like hot. Vending machine sue arthur soup in a thing. I'll man i mean it gets really weird. I got like i got. It looked like a soda. But you open you like pop. The top and it was just corn inside like just like cold corn court. Yeah i'm not making this up Yeah it was bizarre like kind of like a corn drink late. You were supposed to drink. This is not how. I thought this was going to start by the way. I'm interested by all the vendors seeing things get. Are you like a you. Went to the japanese market are you are you an appreciator of japanese culture unanimous guy. I don't watch that much. I think i was going to start watching. Evan gilead i think no. Yeah the the one. Yeah that's like what is it whereas from the eighties or something. Yeah yeah evangeline. I don't know if it was eighties or nineties. But it's one of those two for sharon it's it's a classic four three also so it's almost the square Interest so okay. How do you okay so you were like. You're messing with your obese. Settings changing the camera. Now you're talking about like aspect ratio. Do you have like a visual. Art background do you. Are you interested in film. Any of that bell. I like watching felon like studying zone but just in like a not like an actual film school environment just like washing a lot of felt and just kind of any attention to things and seeing how certain things done so just like. Do you think that interest has any bearing on your music. Because i know. I've i've read a few interviews of yours when i knew we were coming to talk to you. Talk a lot about how the artwork in your music can holds a lot of meaning for you. Do you think feel like the visual is really tied to the music for you. I think it is. I think if you have good visuals along with the music that kind of means something to the music than It's just something more you can do. As far as the experience goes than just like a song napping right right. So i think if you tie the two together you can do more with an just a song and sort of like an example of like generic art but something. That's like not where people don't really care that. Yeah well yeah i mean. I think that that's the key right like i think. With all of your music. I can tell that you care a lot about the details of it and i think that's one of the things that attracted me to your music in the first place was that you could really tell that you were thinking about a lot and that it really meant the you were invested in you know like oh thank you at any level. Yeah absolutely man. I mean i. I don't know if like. I don't wanna put words in your mouth but have you always thought that way like you're still a relatively young musician and producer. What was it like for you when you were very first making music like. Were you thinking in terms of like these sort of more philosophical concepts. We're talking about right now early. not i mean. When i started started making music. I was like thirteen i think. And at that point disley my kind of mindset. I wanna be like hardware and playing on these shows and like jumping up on stage with fire coming out from the back may not think and then the more i started working on music more house like i really don't want it i don't want to like i'm not the kind of news baker. The kind of aesthetic i to happen. I don't wanna be like a festival. Ej or anything like that. Nothing against people do fessel. Dj such just. I kinda like more music works like it's something you was like. Listen to in the car at home but isn't necessarily like you can hear it. Being played lives. I guess there's always a point when i might have to play it lines but I kind of make music more for like a personal experience rather than like a the head. Socialist brat yeah like An individual experience or more small experience sources being in a group of thousand equalises giant. Yeah yeah well. It's interesting because you said in there like well eventually. Maybe i'll have to play. It live at some point. Which i it makes me wonder and i think someone in the chat was saying to like what is what is your relationship to to doing it. Live touring and all that. Because i think you get lumped together with edm guys and girls lot. I think i think. I don't know i would say i may etiam yes. You don't really know what you define it. I mean sometimes it might be our dance to its electron ick Like you can't dance to all of my songs. I think this arson somewhere. It's just like a bunch of foley ap and you can't really like to that. But i mean you drive out at work. I mean. it's kind of inevitable. That play life usually Well i mean i. Do you enjoy doing like you. You've toured a you've played shows like is that kind of experience. Not and i'm not talking about the standing on the tables Public kind of stuff but just in general like do you like being on stage in front of people. I liked the general setting of being like doing a show and being with what you like. Its identity tour with them while before code and then it got shut down. We all get past. That ended along with a true and task. Black was there and that was all a really fun experience When it comes to doing the actual show. I haven't yet found a way that i enjoy it that much as far as actually performing As i still wanna do morris ours like to be more for unique experience. If i had the right setup What would be a lot of money on. Probably do my own or aca thing. Yeah yeah mom would you be. Are you thinking about what that would look like. Some kind of like you know fully like a very live tour. More organic than like organic as far as like when there's lasers at a show or becca thing trying to make those look less electronic than they normally are or just certain environmental things like this would. They probably won't let you do that. But just stupid things like putting dirt on the floor of the state. You'd be surprised what they'd let you do but like plan solo around those kind of things And just having the experienced more. No more like Nature place yeah. I love that man. You could absolutely do that. I think people have flirted with ideas like that in the past. But it's really like you said earlier. I mean it's really if you have the money to do it. the venues. They carried no but the money to do. It is a different matter. The money's do. And i think all of the shows i've done on all but Most the shows i've done are supporting like roles for a bigger artists So it's usually you have to work within what they're doing and you don't. You can't really tear down what they're doing and set up your own thing just for that and then you have to reset stage for them. Yup you'll just have to work with and what they have said so yet it's can be kind of difficult. Because i want to be saw with every aspect of music i to And sometimes they can feel like. There's a disconnect with the show of it and the music side like i would wanna do something that feels unique and Connected to the music wise with supporting acts or smaller budget economists. Duda yeah yes. It's true man. It's it's it's it's interesting. You say that. I'm glad we're talking about this because i think this is an issue. A lot of artists early on in their career really encounter is that you can have all the the best ideas in the world. you can have a clear vision. Don't have any money exactly man. I don't know it's tough. I mean some people like people do it. Different ways some people. Just wait and hold back until it gets to a certain point some people try to sort of execute it on a on a smaller like diy and then some people say you know fuck it and kinda just jump into the machine of it. You know whether that's opening a bunch of other people's tours all of it. I don't know there's there's no right or wrong way but i always like seeing where people's heads are at like early on like this. I mean i don't think there's any sort of like. Obviously i'm not. I don't the money or the like as far as people goes to just jump right into giant shows with like a perfect aesthetic but yeah it is something that's like Every other aspect. I wanna be thoughtful about cohesive. Look for things and visor for things. And i think it's just a general with maybe electronic music is when you go on stage venue. It's like all right. We're doing standard lighting setup and it's gonna look like some techno raves thing always read and there's never really like a like it's not like like when you go to play you know there's going to be a certain look to just imagining every like electronic music act having unique. Look where you go there and you're like this does not look like the last one i was just at This is like some steam month looking show or something or you go to another one. It's like i don't know more organic. Maybe looking or different things I don't know. I just want to see more unique setups visually. I would love this. I think the main thing is just the the lasers that come now. There's no matter what the service is. Always the lasers that come out in the lasers always look the same. Yeah so is there any way we can make lasers look different or do something different lighting. Yeah i have a similar complaint about like fryo cannons and led walls to individually. They're all fine. But i'm just like i don't know man especially for the larger artists who really do have a choice and say this. It's funny. I talked on this show. I talk a lot about how i think a lot of times people just sort of follow what everyone else is doing in in our scene even a big level even some of the bigger names. Because it's what works and because at a certain point the money gets so high that everyone's like well look. This is the safe bet things. We don't want to screw with it. The venue already has the led wall. We can just show up. It'll be fine. You know that kind of thing. It's easier simplifies. Our life all of that but the net result of that i mean at the end of the day and i'm not calling anyone out specifically but it's complacency and that to me complacency is like the killer of creativity and the killer of innovation and walk just a lot of people think when during the show. It's like you to do something that's big and feels like it's like i guess it's similar to al usually always strings using the score from We know this works and it feels app it so we're gonna do it yet versus things. I liked entirely like since based scores. Which are usually bit I think it's just. These are the kinds of things that he will think of when they think of like a big at the show right on a big show with the leaves and all that but something i really like and i think this might have populations. I'm not sure. But i think there was like two giant eveland. Bear costumes dancing on states. Okay and this wasn't old age sex show. I think you'd like the late nineties. Or maybe early two thousand and he was just laying out onstage with like. This word is doing random things and he was just laying down. He looked like he was gonna fall asleep possibly but he was just sitting there. Doing this thing and people were watching. And i'm like imagine if you went through show now and the guy was laying down on state. What's going on. But i feel like it's i don't know it's definitely something you talk about. He sold at all absolutely. I mean there was a dead mouse used to do you know you wanna talk about like the biggest of the big. Edm pig top shit dead mouse. There was a part of his show. I don't know if he's still does it. But there's a part of his show where like he put a couch out in front of out and for like he would just play a song. And i kind of like dismantling the idea of like we just pushed buttons. Nothing's happening live and he would just play a song and for the whole song he would sit on the couch and drink a beer to me. I was like man. That's whether or not the people in the audience enjoyed it. I think it's fun. It's innovative and it's fun and we're talking about it. However many yes. Yeah it's like. I feel like shows are connected to become like i guess argument versus whether show us whether you're going to watch someone perform something really high skill of like doing instruments and We're actually mess up with zombie like your you have to play guitar. Play piano or something Or if you're going there to see just an experience or show red. I think both are are cool. And it's definitely coolest people play life insurance and i'd say i probably just sonically. I like going the live. Instrument bands live more than like electron is right But if you're doing like an electronic show usually don't do that much you can do a lot but you can get away with not too much in florida. Yeah yeah if you want to so what you could do. If you're not doing a lot in that area you could kind of run your show lights like a play or there's certain events that happen at a scripted and it was a really strange experience audience that they're like i haven't seen it. Yeah yeah absolutely. I mean it basically for me. I don't really care what i'm going to see. As long as i feel like the person is invested in it as long as you can see their personality in it like i want. I want to connect with them and to me. It's much more boring. We've all been to shows where you can kind of. Just tell the doing the same thing you know like they're kind of they're on the track. I won't go as far as this say phoning it in but you know like sometimes you go to a festival and it's like well i couldn't even really tell half the people on stage all kind of at sounded the same and these might even be artists that i like and people that i like know. But it's yeah there's this sorta like just sameness in it. And i think you kind of from the jump were in like i want to bring this back to you and tell you about what you do is i think you've been against that from early on and i think it's interesting to talk about like we were talking about when you started making music and like. How quickly did you start thinking about this stuff. Like i never really answered. Yeah yeah but lee. I can maybe even ask it in a better way. Which is that. I'm curious when you started making music. You know how quickly did you realize that you know what i'm doing is sort of different or maybe i'm thinking about this differently because i think when you start and you don't know anything yet. It's so easy to feel pressured. The i should do this to fit in or oh this successful person is doing this if i sorta copy that formula. Maybe that's a good way to start all of that. But i feel i correct me if i'm wrong but i feel like you did not do that so much. What do you mean like to make things that i think we do. Well well i think. I don't know i guess all i'm saying to me not just doing something because it's currently doing not necessarily trying to fit into asean right away is saying i don't know i mean i really liked like when i wanna start out start out. I really liked listening to Said that was the main said dead mouse and like the was at my sucks friends. Rule don't francis out all that kind of us expire really liked early on Like super easy stuff. Like super idiom. Stop how did you hear that stuff in the first bliss I think i downloaded some sort of like ipad music making app and then i started making music and it was really bad. But i'm like this is kinda cool sounding. I think takeout recommended like a a herbs on facebook. This'll night saw like a launched videos. This is kinda crazy looking. Because i was just like. I wasn't dandan music but unlike it looks like fun to do. It looks almost like a game or something right. So i asked launchpad for christmas and as i just want this launch fat because i want funds make a song out of it and i got it and i. It came with abelson and like well. How do i do what they're doing in this thing like. How do i make it. So when i've played plays the song. I didn't know abelson and eventually it just became like i never used launchpad for that for scores. Like doing those things. Of course. After that i was like well. Now i've got us able to Do that thing How old were you Thirteen man so maybe maybe thirteen going on fourteen right And so yeah. I was trying to figure out how to use. And then i moved to f. l. some like i think it was like someone i knew how to use ethanol so like i can teach you how to use l. but i don't use abelson. It's all right. I'll learn fell that So i started using fell. And yeah i think i was working on like arrested. House stuff's at the time. So i was like i wanna listen more stuff. That's like this so kind of like you're gonna make you or get inspiration right But then i think it was. But i got i got a game called Sleeping dogs okay. House like maybe fourteen or fifteen or something. It's like a game that takes place in china. You're like martial arts and you have to fight like a like a crime syndicate or something. You're undercover cop here but in that game There was Afterlife by rusty that song what is this. This is crazy south now. This is the craziest thing ever and this isn't like progressive house. This is like the beats always read like four four on the floor and like you can do so much more with music and also like the way. It's in that song. It's almost like just like a brass hit like in standard trap brass it and you can almost hear it like putting all you care. It's like a one shot. almost. I'm something about just the weird like using samples and the way that sounds kind of bad but interesting. Same time I was like i wanted to. I wanna mess around more with like just. I don't know making random beats aren't always the same is at that time. I was like always just doing arrested. Which is always four. Four floor Like getting kind of getting boring. But i still wasn't quite ready to let it go. It was kind of a toss just mentally tough to stop making. I'm like a. I like rest of how still but i kind of knew in my head like i can't keep making this river there can't just eat during the same thing over and over. It's crazy to know at age fourteen in like. That's that might have been when i was like going on fifteen kind of say i mean it's still crazy at fifty man. I well i i. I'm just interested because you said you weren't even that into music earlier on in your life and did you have any musical background like did you play instruments. Anything like not now. There's this when. I was really young like five or something. I was like a free school. And they're all these insurance and like all these coincidence and then i ended up getting the triangle. They gave me the triangle san. What am i gonna do this or just hit like. I don't know why but i really want the symbols. Yeah we'll they're loud. yeah he's hit them together. But yeah. I got the triangle and that was probably the only experience i had. Yes early on. I like the idea that to you. Music was just the triangle. And you're like music. All music is getting this trial. Yeah i don't i. I'm trying to think no i didn't have any background So then i kind of am. I right am i know not to cut you off but i just wanna see if my theory is right that like once you jumped in then age. Thirteen fourteen. Fifteen got it like started absorbing all this music quickly started making it yourself like was it. Just like this information dumped. Did you go like super deep super quickly. I can't i can't quite remember. I know like when i started out it wasn't really like i didn't think of it as music really fun. Like it's fun to just go and mess around and make random things felt like a game where you gone. Yeah i played a lot of games as sleeping. Dogs stuff right And then i mean obviously like my age playing by those guys things and then licensed naked stuff. Yeah yes. I played a lot of games and i was also like well aims are fond. But when you're working on music like you're working towards something like you improves. While you work on something but it's not just like once you stop making music for the day it's like when when you're doing a game and you are playing games like turn off the game. Well do i really gain anything about was for this. Yeah whereas when you're doing music you'll be working on it for the whole day after that you'll have a song you made. But also you have the knowledge that you can relate of day so it was kind of nice knowing that it was something i was working towards and i was getting better at it right and then eventually just was like i wanna become really good at it and i wanna. I don't wanna stop learning. I just want to keep going and keep learning stuff. And i don't know if i watched that many it's orioles. I think that was just kind of. I mean i think the way i would do it early on and even now do it is if there's something i liked and wants do i would. Just listen to somebody that have done it and then really carefully. Listen to it and try to reverse engineer. What was done all right by. Just what i could tell it was. I think that's one of the best ways to teach yourself. Production is to listen and you really like and dry like really take the time to make try to make it so at that time. Those like rosty flown Lilo flying lotus. And then later on was. Probably like radiohead and tom york And blanking on artists o ash kushtia always one those really cool and then arca. I remember this might be going off tangent but less someone i know it was like checked out the granular s. l. I'm like no checked up. Like why i just read the whole sol manual and it's talking about the granular that's nfl. I'm like okay Putting samples in it and make pads with it's crazy. I'll try it out because they're they're a huge fan of arca. Also snark i've So i started just putting stuff in granular acids. I'm like don't feel like you don't really even have to be that great Cruel stuff with the granny last. You can just throw something in and make like pat or like a one site. Make a pat nicot fads or keys a or drum loops can make some weird drum above it So i started doing that. And i feel any time i can kind of take some of the stress of production of me. Just put it into like some sort of thing. We're kind of random randomized than i have to figure out what to do that. After is why like making usa. So i was getting stuff out of granny license. That was like i really do with this. I don't know but i was trying. I'll i'll say something So i feel like that's my like the most not like eventually. I realized i didn't like doing that. Kind of sounds line. Where you're like. You're aiming for a certain sound more like just go on with no intentions and then you come out with something that we weren't really thinking. Yeah that'll natural. Absolutely i mean. That's that's a great exercise for creativity in general. I mean i think anybody any great songwriter. In any jonah will tell you that you know it's you wanna put yourself in that sort of like open place and you try and usually like whatever comes to you. I like that's going to be the idea. You kind of just have to. It's it's such a weird idea because it's if you think about it too much you're doing it wrong but but idea being basically to. Yeah you know. Like open yourself up creatively and then just be able to make these really quick decisions. Go down these rabbit holes while still kind of like maintaining control over the whole pratt like it's it's harder to talk about. That is to just just do it do it. Yeah yeah yeah. I never really went to crazy. As far as like synthesis sounds goes like working innocent to make crazy sound. Because that's just really long. yeah. I feel cappelli. Adhd or something. But i was like. I can't i can't businesses. It's taking you long to do something. I want to So yeah i would. I want you realize just like sampling. Stop than making weird like racing drums off When i don't i don't have time to place on grit i'm just gonna place wherever if works But yeah i i kinda straight away from doing the like intentional side. Eventually because i feel like the less i tried it. Control it the more. I do cool stuff and the more i try to search for a certain thing more. I'm not open doing something. That may be different than what. Yeah i think. That's great man. I think i mean it makes me think about just the idea of collaboration in general i mean that's you know that's like one of the best benefits of working with other people on kind of art. Is that yeah. They'll make choices you expect. You'll build something together. You could have built by yourself. But i like the idea that it sort of just you and collaborated with yourself kind of or like the computer or the universe or like what you know whatever you wanna call it. Yeah yeah it's also really liked labs though because if it's someone who's music you are really interested by and you're working on something with them where it's like you don't quite know what they're gonna do That's really interesting to me. Is every time i allowed with. Somebody wanted to kind of be. Like i usually either working than they were on again or i call it something They were on it. But i like seeing how they change what i've done it two different right as i usually do certain things i'll probably subconsciously doing music that other people probably don't do And i don't know even just rhythmically. I think it's cool to analyze like out doing james I really liked the Collab- you did with the caption Oh yeah yeah. I was just listening back to that earlier today. And yeah i really liked that one man because it it didn't again it didn't sound exactly like either of you And yeah it was. It was refreshing. And this is kind of me going off on a tangent for a second but just because the. We're talking about this song right now. Like i was listening to that song which for everybody in the chat. Everybody listening later. Maybe we'll even listen to it later on once we're done talking here but you got to check it out. Amazing suit is it. S i tower. It's onsite so it's just the bear. Rents what. I'm sorry. I was just making and so to me. That sound is like it's sort of indebted to like the sound cloud era. Like i heard that and it made me think about the soundcloud era where there were all these ideas flying around all this like innovation and progression having really fast but kind of in a like a diy way like off. Yeah yeah yeah. The music wasn't always perfectly polished. And all that do you feel. Do you feel like what you do is in any way indebted to the soundcloud air. Is that kind of how you came up. Yeah i was most of the people. I currently no met just from sound club early on i was on seinfeld. A bunch and i would just Quite a bit named check genesis. And the way i met was i commented on track. He did with sunday not though ages ago. This track What i said. I don't even i said i just said like sick. Track or something but Somehow it ended up that they were like you. Wanna you wanna like work on the song. I think we've joins like a a group chat or something. We're talking to guys from australia. And i met a bunch of people's australia And we just kept talking and then there's still people find on. Some of that are really interesting and cool that you don't always buy in that kind of stuff on spotify. The s spotify's usually stop. That's like usually bigger artists not always but usually bigger artists that you get from us now to community right like soundcloud tamales. Yeah there's no comments. That's why i was. Like southbound is could comment and then somebody could say something it's like i think it's a good ratio of On athena place where people can listen to music but also being like a place where you could comment song replying than a discussion start alot which is more like a community experience And i feel like that's what's missing from most current streaming surf. Since there's no like you'll have something that sounds similar. You'll be recommended similar stuff. But it's not a community right and i think you know to take it even one level deeper. It's it's changing. The sounds that people are making right. Like i think if we're talking about the soundcloud era whether it's the trap scene or the beat scene or what whatever you know. All these little mini scenes that were happening on soundcloud. I think so. Many of those artists have either had a hard time or just had switched up what they were doing with the rise of spotify and others streaming platforms. Because there's like certain types of music that do better on those platforms which to me. That's like just a scary thought that people would actually be making their creative decisions based on the platforms available. I know yeah. I mean that's kind of thing of light making a song that's like like close to two minutes so then on spotify spot advice kind of made some people make really short songs now because if you play over and over again yet or that's money so yeah i feel like music shortage shorter and that might also be because of people's attention spans but Well right but it's like well wire. Our attention spans getting shorter. Is it because everything were show clips like i don't know and maybe i just am not too involved with this unity but i wonder there might still be a thriving. Diy immunity on. Take talk or something. I don't really know. Go on sick talk. Yeah never I mean definitely some people have been able to use tick-tock to break out like unknown artists in a way probably wouldn't have been able to on other platforms like there's still people innovating but i do always just wonder where it goes. You know and then what happens to the people who built their name on a certain platform when that platform is no longer like goes away and let me ask you to turn it back to you for a second lake at any point in your career thus far have you felt the kind of pressure. We're talking about to either change what you're doing or to fit into a certain thing i mean. Have you ever felt it and be. Have you ever acted on it in any way. Oh i don't think so. I maybe early early on before. I started doing like before i started like when i was still wearing rest house. That was kind of What kind of hard work on. Yeah it's kind of hard to make music. So i kind of had to adapt and i was like. I can't if my goal is to make something that's successful and i'm just waiting on success not trying to make some ethics in the molen than i'll always be chasing something that is not not now it's in the future So i'm like. I have to joy when i make now if i wanna keep aching music can't just play 'cause i was like oh i want to show where i'm like said are hardball. Fires coming up on me. Like i said but I feel like he who are still not mindset eventually all out of music as once it gets too hard if you're just doing it for those reasons not enjoyment of making music. Yeah and you will have enough. Dr keep doing is it's based on external factors not the in fact of making something you're proud of or enjoy So i feel like just with how difficult is it can be to make something. That's good That kind of forced my mindset to change to the kind of life. I'm gonna make stuff. I light and maybe people i know like but not try to do something that i think is going to do. I say that all the time man. It's like if we're like the shit we do is hard enough. You know if you do this to make money like. Let's all go be layers. You know. it's not hard. That's very hard to difficult. Serve it but you know what i mean. It's like yeah in. There's probably other things sure it's like if were choosing this career of financial instability tad crushing anxiety. We might as well Have average wage musician. I think thirty five thousand a year. Which is not and i guarantee you. Somebody is listening to this right now. Be like ooh thirty. If i could just get the thirty five dollars. I don't think i make three. I felt but yeah. I feel like if you wanna last in music. You have to make things for i guess just for like community for yourself because it kind of became like it's saying i was faking baking some family. I would say a friend when you think of this or do you like this and it kind of like we were just making stuff trying to impress each other or ourselves in and that was fun. Is it site. We're not releasing this right now but we can see if the other person's lights it and then we can see where girls in there. when did it change. when did you start looking at it. you know not as not as a game not as as just like a fun thing to do but you know maybe something you could do as a career. Maybe something you'd have a name in. I mean it's still a game until after mix the salt. It's always kind of a game or something fun to do until it gets like the technical side of it which is like the next mastery sure But when did you start looking at yourself as a musician as somebody who's like part of this bigger community you know Yourself as a musician. I don't really know if i do i. I make music by. I don't know. I just like making things and My manager kind of the release of stuff. But i still kind of just make things that i like making no matter what that is unison. So who knows but I just want to make things that anchor cool. Even if it's like a some small thing. I do like a craft ideal of it or some. I don't know some physical crafts than i make. Or maybe i mean this would be kind of a long process process but Making thelma something. Yeah so. I don't know i kind of like i make music but i don't necessarily musician i make. I make sounds people. Some people like it of nuts. Good good answer man. I think again. You're not. It's kind of like what you were saying about creativity earlier. I think what you're doing is just not over thinking it not over analyzing it and really focusing on the fun of it which the logger any of us can do that man. The the happier we're going to be at the other day. The more thoughtful bars. A storms art side goes is thinking especially with this the music. That's coming up and like my album. Doing we'll talk about that for sure. Bat is laura thoughtful as far as the war and how this that the music side of it which is something i think about more that making 'cause i don't know i don't say that they meant to do something with music for the most part. Just go and make something and you don't really know what you're going to be and you don't really know why you made it and you don't really know if has Can we talk about this for a second i have. I have theories about this. What are your well so i. I've been talking to people recently about these kinds of ideas. Where i'm i'm sort of i'm a skeptic and sometimes an asshole aware you know sometimes you hear people say you know i. I poured my soul into this song. And you know. I hope you all feel the deep feelings. I was feeling when you know that kind of thing i. I'm skeptical of that a lot of the times. Because like you said i think creativity oftentimes just sort of sitting down and seeing what happens and being in the moment and being and receptive and everything. We've been talking about but what i've sort of realized over the last few weeks talking to other people about this is i think maybe what you make can kind of be like a mirror that you reflect yourself. Back to you with your. Yeah and maybe you can look at it or listen to it later on and be like oh i. I was angry sad. You sad that kind of thing where you don't necessarily know it in the moment like took a video of yourself all day for a certain day and look back at it like a year later like i was doing things that weren't intentional. I definitely see. I'm in a certain mood right. i think it's different with music does near when he right near ex. I think there's a difference between that and electron music is with that you. You have to think more about what you're right and just Like making sounds china lending like the computer some of the well sure because why languages involved that like is a different part of our brands. Yeah you have to be more thoughtful. Was that so when people say they or their horns If it's like lyric writing stuff. It's easier believe. Because i can see that you would take time to make sure that's right with electric music. I feel like you just do it. And you just work on it and you're not really thinking about what you do it just kind of working on stuff well me. Let's talk about for you. Then i mean you have made electronic music with vocals and with lyrics which you know is is a bit of splitting the difference. I guess i mean even the latest single you put out. Which is if i'm correct waiting for you right. Yeah and even with that. I mean it's it's interesting to think about first of all when you work with vocalist. How collaborative is that process. Are you involved with the lyric writing of it. It depends on the the song with that one. I wasn't really involved with lear. Running that much is that was done by so named west mills. He does a beat up. They're running right so that was him. That wrote those lyrics and then Willow saying them. So i wasn't too involved with running on that And lyrics also done after songs don so that was kind of a different different experienced. Some other words. There's another song. I worked on a toning fortune where i wrote maybe ask of alerts but that was also kind of not something i thought about that. Much I think the meaning of navy subconscious is something. I was thinking about the time but it wasn't like that one was actually pretty easy to write down come out but That was something. I was in the shower. I'm like i have this melody my head and then i was like but what words could they say if there was thing this melody am i say this and i wrote it down on like my phone and i went into exile and wrote the melody on piano And then. I was already working with singer. We're trying to figure out but we could really figure out to. Could you sang these lyrics in this melody over this. The and the beat was like it was like an acoustic drum loop unlike a baseline. And that's not what the song is now. But i'm like if you could sing this. We can see what we can do at that. And then he sang that. And then i kind of made the song around it and then he wrote more alert for after that That were things he was thinking of but still kind of continuing the same believed. It was the same same path so that was more. I was more. Involves lear crying of that. Oh actually the next on releasing on friday it is by the way. Try to thirteen. Great did to do anything I didn't know. I didn't order pants because they're gonna arrive friday the thirteenth and i don't want pants that on. I don't anytime i wear. Those kids aren't gonna fit right. Yeah no but that one. That's coming up is with a falling her. She wrote the lyrics but the melody she saying. The chorus is the same as the court. Right so it was. It was the court pressure that she kind of saying it And that i made. I made the original be under like a crime. Akhil ince crime grimala fella as like just a b. but then i'm like it's kinda melodic so maybe i could make it into a different song or like continue it with a voteless yet. So that was that and then there's another one. I have heard a lot of these. I got sent folder of so. I think that whole playlist that all the album is it. I don't know how much riding on a spoil anything but there were a lot of tracks. Yes that might be. Okay yeah if it's about thirty song just lower thirty man. That's that's a big swig right there. That's a big old album. Yeah but there's another one. I did a singer named ceo. And that one she. I think she wrote the lyrics the meli or to That was kind of more of a somewhat collaborative process as far as the songwriting went. Because when we first were talking about the song and and we're unlike assume call. I was like let's do a. What's tarot card. Ry see what cards and then based on those cards will make a song around kind of the the message. We got from jarrow. Well that's interesting. I kind of like that Actually reminds me of youth throwing something in the granular iser and seeing what comes out like that. Yeah so that was that. That song was based around a tarot cards and various things on My album the mathematically based on tarot card themes and evil stuff. Let's let's talk about it for a second. Because i use mentioned earlier that this album the upcoming album Does it have a name. Is there any details. We should share. It doesn't name. I don't we don't we don't say the name i trust now. All don don okay. Beautiful dawn. I guess i can say the name. I'll i mean we set at nasa But what i was gonna say as you were saying that you know in in making this album that you felt like it was maybe narrative -ly cohesive in a way like in a stronger way or that there was like more of a more like a through line running through a lot of these songs. Yeah is that the terro in the medieval themes. You're talking about more. Just the medieval needs. I mean that. Sarah was are kind of in there with a lot of things. You kinda phase out after the fact Like you have once of music that make tell a narrative story with this in some sort of way And like what does this song sound like in that narrow so kind of trying to create like a sonic narrative where it goes from a bit brighter. And then it gets darker as goes on or more melancholic. I don't know but yeah i mean. This one's more thoughtful than other things are done. I eat cold nightfall. Ray which i was. I was about to bring that up because that ep at least my understanding that seems very thoughtful in the sense that my understanding is that it's sort of a a narrative about your insomnia at the time it was kind of that but it was also a narrative about it was a story that was kind of connected to dawn It's kind of like a lift hanger type thing right to don As it's not the first track on the album. But i really that song. Rio craig and That final track on nightfall very very quiet but it makes us into The song with ria. That's gone just because it's at the time that was going to be the Out but then it wasn't but it still worked out because it was still the first thing i released right like that was a remix after nightfall But yeah it's kind of that was more of a narrative about a guy that's going on drive at night so this of like abandoned town To find something and the names are kind based on things that happen and god raised What you see the advising and then right after you see is the god raised happened before. You see the sun usually. It's like the first thing you see is the light call and then you see the sun so right after don raises dawn And the medieval thing does connect to that in a way But i kind of want to do that. Visually without like explained the whole thing like by word but various medieval sayings. Just because. oh we'll actually. The medieval idea came from a dream. Interesting i had a dream is listening to music on spotify and had a medieval art work. Mike i'm going to do that man. You're collaborating with yourself again man. I love that collaborated with the universe. Only after Now it's just like letting go kind of all of the control of music and letting some things kind of makes himself away I don't know so this one's kind of more based around a direct narrative this album more than time for theme although the narratives is based on a theme but the it's more structure league less out than just of ovide. Yeah there's specific things that Thou- about like a story right like follows a whole story that i off after making when what's interesting and i'll say this because i have heard this now and sorry to everybody who hasn't heard it yet but you know listening listening through it. It's interesting because i think that now that you say that i can. I can kind of imagine that narrative in that you know the floor but at the same time. I think it's interesting because somebody could listen to that whole album without knowing that and also joy it like to me there's levels people could engage on. You know well end such a long out that my thinking kind of like there will be a hands those people who listen the full thing all the way through in order and that's of cool experience for them But some people may just find a few tracks like and make their own story up or their own narrative of the title for their own album in a non pretentious way. I was just iceland for much house. He can find stuff they like out of it. And maybe one person like started roof tracks one personal Different group chats kind of be something like. Yeah why i love them. I mean certainly with with that. Many tracks i think you got a good shot at. Yeah you might be able to sign like ten or nine or something. That's like a standard album lake. Yeah and those attracts like it's interesting to can we Am i allowed to talk about the record label. You're working with that that's public right. I think so. yeah yeah ready released singles. Yes it's it's interesting to me that you're working with with ultra for this too. I thought that was a very interesting choice for the music that you make and right kind of like what they're known for. Yeah it'd be known more standard Electronic music stuff. Although they have released some stuff i think you pronounce saved mark wa It's m. a. r. c. i. O.'s so i've seen that name. Yeah he's really strange. As far as music he mates and he's also ultra. He's done stuff soldiers so they have done stop. That's kind of a bit out there. But i guess they used to work dead mouse and they've got him those. Yeah for sure. I mean like early early electronic music. Well yeah for like edm stuff medium stuff. Yeah yeah ultra is a legendary label but yeah think they're you know back in the day in the nineties and all that you know they were they were working with the people you name get is the dead. Mouse is of the world like really big idiom artists can had their debut on ultra. But you're absolutely right. They put out all kinds of music. I like alter allot shout out to all. It's interesting to me like who ends up. Where what's i like. So much of. It is timing right. Yeah a lot of it's timing and just also just to offers like Good deals also stars as that goes. Sure that business side. Yeah oh absolutely which is extreme. You know. I think a lot of our conversation. Today has been the philosophical the creative artistic at the end of the day. We got to pay rent with this. I mean i i. There's this thing where i'll get. I don't know. I don't know they say but it's kind of like i'll be aid after i submit my album us that that's that's what i going to get the money and technically because i'm mixing mastering stuff i haven't been my album Like actually like it's done on bread. So as forced pain in the bill is pain read. That hasn't happened will serve with that. Siamese man you're you're not allowed by a long shot with that. I mean that that's an anti creative vo case in the payday is always like just over the horizon and and the people who make it in this business man in this game. It's the people who don't quit. Because i think like. I think there's going to be so many people watching this now. Are listening later. Relate to that where it's just like man. It's rough right now but i see what this could be. I see it on the horizon. One thing is if you ever look at like music artists and on. They must make so much money sometimes. It's true but a lot of times. It's touch note mattress even even at a pretty high level. it's still oh. People are strongest atlanta fries. Yeah man you cannot just because you see. Somebody posting festival videos on instagram. Every weekend as recently. I had an overdraft seeing my bank from a ten dollar plug. Inscription so yeah. It's not make these. Don't do it for most of the time you don't. You don't seem stressed out. You don't see him super anxious. I might just be reading it wrong. But i'm in i have bad Anxiety and like a ocd but sparse Money goes i. Don't worry too much as i. I lived with my family right. So i don't have to worry about like if i'm going to be affected us something about which is lucky. Absolutely but ed this. That's great man. I mean this is another thing that i don't think a lot of people know is like how many producers and deejays are in that situation and people you'd think are like super famous dj. It's like no man. Yeah i mean. If i can eat cereal or like some sort of food or like lawmen or something sort of i'm fine. I don't have that much money and usually one of i just want to put it back into music. Like getting something for music or something creative. It's smart i've thought about. I thought about the idea like well. If i'm getting money From the music. I may i could eventually save up enough to do something else. Like make a film or something. Because i really liked fill. I've thought about. I'm this is a really random thing. But i thought about like or movies recently. Okay and i'm i'm trying to think there has really been a horrible where i genuinely ben like scare really scared and maybe i'm just getting older. Have my step monday by. I really wanna make. That's like when you watched it. You're genuinely creeped out. And there's like not no jump scares in it it's just genuinely terrified and doing things with audio film making even more steering. Oh yeah absolutely. That's really rented no man because that's the way you're talking about creativity in general it. It's i like it because it's less about like here's the plan. Here's how i envision it's more kind of just in that immediate in the moment thing we've been talking about this whole time of just the idea comes to you you you execute it you move on and you and you keep it moving which go slow right exactly. Yeah and and don't worry so much about the outcomes of it which i think for a creative. I think that's like a very healthy place to be. If i liked lie mate than i think usually go. I don't really worry too much about like if i really saw one person likes it. That's cool it's a song they can listen to. Your body will enjoy. It's another song. The listened to in their spotlights. But yeah i try to kind of separate Success side of it and the the. I dunno getting reassurance from the ashir like numbers support getting this. It's kind of ends. When i make it as far as my inactions worrying about what happens with it. Well i say this quote These days almost every time. I do one of these. Podcasts is one of my favorite quotes which is great. Art is never finished. It's only abandoned free much Yeah i mean that's definitely feel a lot of the things i've missed and mastered myself Which is everything. But i didn't mixmaster my last single wayne for you. I mixmaster what's not remix eb. Okay i didn't do symbol. I didn't do I do remix of a amanda song. With anima- i i did make sat. They did For them and i didn't mix and master with genesis. But all the other ones. I've done and those ones yeah i kinda just. There's a point where i have to give off. I'm like this isn't really what i want to sound like. I'm running outside the work like i. Can't he works. Do you think for the ones you didn't mix and master. How is that experience. Is that something you'd be open to doing more of in the future. Because i know plenty of incredible musicians who for whatever reason that part of it just isn't isn't there. They're happy place. No it's not my happy place either us. That goes like nasty masters. Not like. But i'm very particular without things like unsound sound in a song that i almost kind of have to do it myself because the back and forth with somebody else that makes master take so many times back and forth that one. It usually costs a lot of money. Yeah makes a national cheat and to sometimes use. It doesn't even get to where he wanted to be sebastian. When it's someone else and in those cases like sometimes i've just been like well. Maybe the way. I heard it wasn't how it has the sound. It can sound different. And then i'll outcome to like him eventually as far as Alice mix that's also happened with myself. I've finished this bread. And then not listen to it for like a week. And i come back to my. Oh this doesn't sound sexy. Sounds bringing that happened with the sign with the rio. Craig signed mixmaster that one forever. And then i i think it was like i think i missed deadline to submit it to release it on time right and then something was moved around and scheduling where later on it was like we can still release the same date by you. Have i think it was like forty eight hours do it. No i'm like. I've i've already spent like four or five months trying to fix this thing. How am i gonna do in forty eight hours I stayed up for forty eight hours. Not sleep in thing. I had two cups of coffee. Didn't have that much caffeine. But not that much not that much caffeine but somehow away maybe stressors by to finish the songs that kept me away. Yup and i mixed it and then i'm like i don't like how this sounds. Oh and it was like never ending cards ests like i made this mix of it. I'm going to the car. You're going back and then at the very end amount of time i got submitted and unlike yoda's i'm really not that without sounds this is i. I hate making music. I hate everything out user. But you're it is. And i woke up the next morning. I'm like actually doesn't sound smile. And then the longer was away from it and like oh it sounds by. It's actually mixed on. It is something. I sometimes reference or things i make now. Sometimes you need the external deadline man. Sometimes you need somebody to stay. Just be like no at this time it will be done. Yeah we'll mixing mastering difficult because your ears can sometimes just after awhile starts even you where you're not hearing it the same way you would normally here and yeah. That's the most difficult thing the technical side i stole really feel like i know how to mixmaster. It's like every thomas semester new song. I'm like i don't know what i'm doing. I don't know what i did. Last time i feel like i forgot how to do it right. And i'd stride cigarette. What did i do time. How did i do this. I don't know i sort of. I sort of like saved videos made doing something so i remembered how to so i don't know i still feel like every time either was just making a song naive next estrin. I don't know what i'm doing every time i start. I think that's good honestly. It might not feel comfortable. But i think that's good. Ed i like. I've talked to so many people man and and yeah we. We don't have to go too far down this rabbit hole. I want to. I know we have a whole bunch of questions from people to get to real soon. But but i do want to say. I've talked to plenty of people on this podcast. Who have been doing this for. Decades had incredible careers all that. Nobody knows what they're doing. Nobody even the people we look at as geniuses and the people who always you know everything they put out. It's like oh. This is so incredible. They don't know what they're doing either. Yeah yeah that is something. I've realized but i feel like the best. The best art is made by people who on suddenly feel like they're learning when they're making soviet And never feel comfortable. Whether at they're always like i've done this now. Gotta move on to something else. Goes if i keep doing this. It's gonna get stale. Just always kind of been on edge about what you're making trying to change. I think a good thing even though it can be stressful as far as one of my gonna make next right but that that makes me think of what you said when when you were a kid just figuring out this stuff you know comparing it to gaming versus you know making music. Is that when you were making music. You were always learning. You always walked away with something some new some new progress thing. I mean. I think that we're talking about the same thing here like that. That me shows like a a through line in this whole conversation but yemen. I'd love to We we've got a bunch of people in the chat here in a bunch of people who have been asking questions if you're down for it. I'd love to throw a couple of these at you. Yeah all right. Let's see what they are. I'm looking right now Okay so the first question is great because this is actually something. I wanted to talk about as well What the first question is. How do you meet up with flu. But i wanted. I want to expand that a little bit. And i wanted to ask you. What is the deal with you and australians. There is you'd like connected with and worked with all these australian artists and producers. What how did that happen. What is that connection. It was just like people. I met on soundcloud and then people that they knew and then met people. Those people knew and just started meeting bunch of australian people and then because of knowing all this people. I kind of became part of the a small like australian community. Which kind of made me more noted australia that states possibly so you were a little bigger in australia before here. No well i mean does definitely people that are at edm events or shows that by music would be played there more often than here like for instance. My music played on triple j a few times which is like a australian radio station Not not that. I know of has been played on an american radio station so definitely i think. Australia's more of a homeland of music students I just somehow medal of australian people through sound bug us and then no i. I remember Dispersing howls it's h. L. age of w. l. s. Who found my music on sound low. And he's he was a big support. My still is And he. i don't know if he's from australia but he lives in australia. And i believe he was the person who showed my music to real craig Who had just worked with And i don't know how slow somma to this day I've never asked But i worked with rio bit so it could have been because of that. I don't know but yeah just random message from globe on his one day. And i happened to la so we met a bad day or no yays. But we're like it'd be analyst kameda and then menopause them slick two months after that but then what then. Kobe hit and we obviously can't travel around but we still worked on stuff like over just the internet. So yeah. I don't know. That's how i met him. I think What sony music on soundcloud I love remix. You did for him. That's that was like right after pretty close out. There are no wasn't it was like a year after my dude but brain does but same he found music and then was doing a show. Like i think the next year And before i was doing the show i was working on. That remix is like if you wanna do next i could have some cool out live and then Worked on When better been i the do show We kind of both worked on the remix so it was kind of it was like remix zeidan but also he did some stuff on it There was like an instrument called a deal. I think it's called like let's add this. The end of it all right at might kind of weird. It's like a. i don't know what's going on. It's like a collaborative what's not but it's also remixed songs crazy but yeah i don't know i don't really know how anything half just try to go along so i'm just excited when i meet new people. Yeah well i think the the support of you know some of those people you just named is a probably how a lot more people became aware of your music to it. It's an interesting connection. I think because they all happen to be australian and say might not mean anything. But it's just interesting i would say is probably Biggest force in my success. I would say as far as a big artist helping out with doing like he was very It's been very he's great. He's i love him and i'm i'm grateful for enlightened. My views like one hundred percent wild. Yeah is it weird to you. Know to talk to flu. Work on stuff with phlegm. When i assume he was somebody. You're listening to early on. Yeah yeah. I don't know it's a weird kind of leverage rate working with all these people even once not because i remember listen to Like dividing conquer and And so i mean. I was when all this stuff came out. I was young like really young right really. I'm just turned twenty in july like early july. Yeah you're still young crazy. I was really young. When a law that came out. Like dividing the and rebates by. What's is one that i really like i would. I would put that up. There is probably one of the best. Edm tracks or best electric tracks of all time. Say strong statement but i. I think there's definitely an argument for it. I think that's one of the i love. I love it. I think it changed The you know it changed like it made a big impact. It changed of how some people were thinking about what they were doing. All the stuff is also. Yeah it's just weird working with all these people i don. Yeah that's fine man. You don't have to know. It's fun as long as i don't really understand it. Still music shit. I'm pretty sure they do well. Speaking of your music visit question That it actually a few different people ask. They're asking Could you ever breakdown any of your tracks do any kind of like production videos. Where you're going into your sessions. Yeah well i mean. I work in. Nfl so a lot of my song ended up getting corrupted. Great answer but for the ones that haven't been corrupted. Maybe i don't know It's usually just on eight hundred eight drums. i like that. You're like guys. It's not that interesting eight drums samples and like lace and everything off grid and then using silent on your like. You're like you don't need to watch the stream. I'll explain it right now Just place everything the grid out of general guideline but not. You don't really have to follow it if something loops back around at the end it's going to make a rhythm in some way doesn't have to be on the whole time. If it's gonna look back and play. Yeah yeah true. Absolutely and yeah. That's right as long as part of it is quantifies. You know the rest. Molly hollow right. Yeah if think of like you have this amount of time to make something and at the end of it it's going to cut it off and play yet and the repetition of hearing overdose create a rhythm. Even if it's not on the yeah. Oh absolutely man i. I completely agree that think. That's that's such a product like even if you take the micro of that idea of just like just moving stuff just a little bit where you can't doesn't even sound like it's off the grid but like those little subtle things can totally change can change the house on sounds. How makes you feel. It's crazy. I know says yeah. Yeah how do you okay. So this is from. This is from amanda Who says how do you discipline yourself with beat making an practice. Do you have a work schedule. You stick to or is it more more open when the moment hits i don't i don't really have a schedule. I just make music a lot like make you sick so i come back to. I think it's important not to beat yourself up if you're not if you thinking you're not making progress because there's times we may not make that much progress but those other times where something will click in. You'll be a lot more productive than fascinating. Something i think the more you stress about you know more i feel like i should be more productive. Stresses you out more and makes you just not level headed when you're trying to make something so just kind of make things when you wanna make thanks. You'll have something ghulam. It is when he actually wanted to do it versus like trying to make something. That's not worth now and you've get frustrated. Yeah absolutely. I mean you can never see. You can't put inspiration or creativity on on a timer at. We've been talking about this the whole time. It's just those moments when it hits you it hits you and we're not always in control of that which which actually brings me to another question that This is from from toha in las vegas. Shout out to las vegas asking. About what kind of non musical things inspired you. Because i think if we're talking about sometimes you're not inspired to make music you do it when you wanna do it. Sometimes i think you gotta step away and you gotta let and the world do something your brand in the background before you can come back to it. I don't know i just random things. A general thing that is inspiring to me is just colors in general just color schemes or looking at like a piece of art. Visual art has a cool color scheme. Even if it's not like it doesn't really matter what the content of it is if it's something that's just visually stimulating. I guess like just cool colors. It's like that's cool. And i can kind of imagine what that would sound like ovals. Do you have since the no. I don't think so. Okay because i have that a little bit like i hear music and i like see colors when certain music is saying no. I don't really get that. But i can on magin like what if i tried to make what that thing sound like. Look at something like what would this sonically sound like if you try to make a song and then doing that or Something that lou mentioned was like just try to do something different rhythmically like. Don't don't always have to trap take a rhythm from another genre and bring it into what you do but kind of what you're doing a melodic select. Just make a song. But it's in like like a south american of it but the song extra still weird. Yeah so that. That's good advice out saying being inspired but also just random things like i really like Just there there was a time where i want to like spree of washing stocks about mushrooms. Okay like just mushrooms not like psychology and just mushrooms and how they can do all these complex things up making essentially like wiring systems like the way they connect with each other and how i think it was like they remade. It was like they remade the new york subway system or something but more efficiently than it was bill. Just the the fungi or fungi. Whatever is yeah created this system that was more efficient to move through than what humans design and just random things mushrooms can do and all the health. It's so much in. South lines made mushrooms out of good effect on I think the lane dementia alzheimer's right And help with anxiety. That's a random thing but just reading about like some random saying us is cool. And then i feel like the best thing to do to the inspires. Do random things that may not seem productive. As far as just lying about things and then you'll kind of a learning mindset after you learned all these things and use it might be more enticing after you've gone in that mindset. You're like what can i learn making music rather than a gonna make a track gonna try and create something. It's like what can i learn making it. That's a that's a big one or sense that's the only thing just smells smells the strongest thing tied to memory. Strongest sense Memory so if you smell something. That's young smell liars. Different it will you. I feel like it puts you know different head space than where you were. One smell smells can walking upset. Yeah oh absolutely walking's huge to smells batch like music at least for me can immediately snap you back to marie or a moment in your Show which is which. I think is a perfecting having the right smells in. Your environment is really important if you have a good smelling environment. Like i've a. I've a humidifier with tea tree oil. Which is why the drilling there. It is again and that smell. It's just a nice smell it it. I feel like your environment is definitely a big factor in what may make you just physically mentally also is likely as well so have a good environment because there's been times my desk just trash on it like mcdonald's wrappers bag of talkies or something And if you have better clean environment that's nice visually. I feel like it's better. Yes oh one hundred percent i. it's i think about this too and this this will tie in to michael from colorado asking Just any thoughts or memories. You have about your song firecracker and If you can remember. I'm curious what environment that was written. And what was going on around you at the time i don't know. I think i was really sad when i wrote. I don't know why i mean. Do we ever think for some reason. Really sad. When i wrote that and i honestly don't remember go guys should remember. I really don't. I mean it was the same room. I've made everything else in joel. No heads faso's for the. I was just sad for some these. Like can't remember what. Yeah i mean we don't always know why man and it's shifting i knew why but i don't know at the time yeah i understood. Side pinecone is asking As long as we're talking about inspiration are there any new sounds any new music whether it's a genre or a styler an artist that's inspiring you right now right now Right now the most inspiring stuff. I'm hearing is an are staying bickel in our same bickel and i've been going back and listen to a bunch of allergy it's like an indie ours So indie stuff. Which i i feel like i was going to use that word indie when we were talking about waiting for you the the new single. That was more that one was more directly inspired by like ours named benny in from new zealand. who's music was really like enough time This because that song was much older than released. Cher and yeah. It's like the indy off. Benny song mixed with electrons. And then i'll just say indie stuff but like recently a lot of sad indeed look like dark sad melancholic into music. More than like indie stuff. While you're out in portland right. I feel like sad. Indie music and portland is like a match made in heaven. probably and then. I recently gone back. Listened to bunch of ords of canada boards of canada's amazing. yeah so that kind of stuff. I don't know. I don't know what the hell of time you spent listening to do. You think what you listen to affects the kind of music. You're writing at the time yet. I i would say yeah definitely nuts baby subconsciously but maybe not subconsciously also also like if there's something i like the sound of and i listened to this really cool downing. I'll be like how. Can i mix that with what i do. Currently so as far as the indie stuff goes. I do kinda wanna find a way to base like sad indie music with electronic music but in a way that's make sense that is like there's a guitar blame as a bill that drops into this life thing where it's actually like. It's part of the songwriting of the indie saw. So yeah it. Definitely to admit say wish. Yeah that that makes sense. But it's interesting to hear carries over what i've done what i've done still carries and so will i may because it's it's the skill i built up most this y know how to make so there's always going to be kind of the drugs. Wonky sound In there because that's just using. Yeah which. I think it's good to have. I mean not only techniques that you rely on things they can simplify your workflow. But that's you know sonically that's like an identity to which is actually the another question somebody asked. You're like just opening up all these questions. It's great lucas. Who's listening from the or watching from the czech republic willows. Asking about your your drums and saying well You know basically. How do you make your drums. Sound the way they do. He says he finds them special. And unique i mean he's asking technically about you layer samples. Do you have some special technique. Yeah and just depends on the sample that you find and then using a software to just make it really loud in the clip. A bunch is pretty much. That's how the trump tower clips us off the lugging want specific plugging cake. That's good yeah. So sometimes i think people do listen to it is and just like no. Tell me the specific. Tell me exactly. What the i feel like. That's the same reason everyone watches tutorials tears another thing layer a hi hat the kick sound bit better and then flip it with the kick and the highest the other day. I like that. That's that's a specific. And it's it's funny man. Because i think so often and i don't know if you were ever like this you said you didn't watch a lotta tutorials coming up but when i was young too and and just learning how to make music it's natural. You're just like well. No just tell me how to it. Just like i wanna know the secret but then really the answer is always that there is no secret right and we're all kind of figuring it out as we go. Yeah i would say for the specific questions like that where it's eddie wrong sir. Sound that certain way It is helpful than no. I know the process. It's mainly just Samples election and clipping sponge of soft. But i didn't know him. So ray later on and i should have been used. Soft lipper is i was just clipping. The master didn't always work. 'cause i was like well this one this is. Why does it not sound. Good wide clip. This song but sounded good. Winds another one. It's like if you're the with certain it depends on the range of frequencies so on So yeah softballs help. Allot make sure you use the software if you wanna make some soundlink. It's not actually be bad in the bits. Yeah that's something. I didn't know i enjoyed last year. But we're we're putting it out there now a little present for for all the up and incomers listening to this A bunch of people are asking about more album. Details is Is it is it coming this year. Can you say that. do we know that no. I don't think next year okay. Got it good but singles jingles committee. Yeah there's there's a lot of amount so there's a lot of signals. Yeah yeah they're they're saliva tracks on that album. I love that. Did i mean this. This is maybe a good place to ask you you know. Is there anything as we're kind of wrapping it up here. Is there anything else. We haven't talked about anything coming up other than the new single coming out next friday anything else. That's on your mind anything else you want to let people know about. I don't know. I really don't know i i feel like i haven't heard a medium song while that's been like blown me away. Like how do they do that. Bread so i just want to hear more stuff. It's like i guess. That's kind of what i try to make. I try to make something. Where if i didn't make it. Somebody would be like how. How did they do that. for like producers. Not even just like up generalists like a producer. Listen certainly what did they do rides. That's the kind of stuff i i trying to make So i don't know. I just wish maybe i just go on spotify onto something new music. I just want to hear more stuff. That's like i don't know how they did. It and i haven't heard that much recently. I feel like not not so much music's At least early this year. There's nothing much has come out. I think it's starting to roll. Roll up now and more people are starting to released but as a big curators i. I wasn't seeing much. Some people were holding back for sure that that's absolutely but then at the same time there's so much music coming out every day you extra like more than ever. I think i need to go on spotify at south of sunday. Oh you know what on the same day. I'm really switch back Ours named heresy is a good friend of mine subtract which is a really cool track Check that out because that is something that is in that vein of stuff that i'm impressed by recently And another artist is a small artist. Australian in ten zen He's doing crazy stuff. I really like everything he's doing. So i would say checkout it stopped to. I don't know that's great. That was like some people say nope. I'm good and you gave us like five pigs man. That was great ownership people making and releasing raising news Anybody listening trama. Something crazy and send is please. I mean we started off this conversation more or less talking about the same idea that you know they. It's so easy to stagnant with this and it's so easy to just make something that you just try to get in with the sooner the sound or just to be a part of it and i think the argument were making here. Like you really got to examine your motivations like why. Why do we do this. What are we actually like. What are we actually excited by. And and you know how can we push it forward like if we're not pushing it forward what's yeah i love. i guess. That's the message service today. I think so too bad. I mean there's a few messages the the new album and looking out for the new music is absolutely part of the message. But man i. I'm going to ask you one final question. It's the question. I ask at the end of each one of these episodes Just looking for a time in your life a moment a memory could be from any time when in that music really deeply affected. You really had a deep impact on you in the moment and doesn't have to be significant. It's kind of just no wrong. Answer whatever you think of. I i i listened to just the mental space wasn't great And it was just a time where i was just not doing when i first listened to song unmade by tom. Your experience contract versus spirits subject. It's called the spirit soundtrack That song i don't know what it was but just the sound of it. And i guess what are you saying was probably when it's affected me the most i'm like it was also like it's just him singing over piano. No have to do. You don't have to do a thousand elements to make something that sounds new and fresh up to use it in a way. That's cool and unique and an updated so it was just that it was just listening to that being one something about his songs. I'm going through it right now. But but to it's like he's just using two elements pretty much. I mean there's like ambien senate but pretty much just two elements and doing so much a bit. So that's when. I was kinda like maybe i don't have to throw a bunch of crap into a song to make something cool. You just focus on making a small amount of things that you have as good as possible and as unique as possible. I think that's such a such a great note. I talk about this all the time where you know if you're in the middle of working on something and you don't know what it needs. You're not quite there yet. Of course the first instinct is like. Oh well what if. I throw some chords on top of it. Or what if i throw in this crazy. I feel the but the answer is always. What can i take away from this. What can i tell you arrive this or what can you make better. That's already there riots. Like how can you make out. Can you take it away. But but so many weird effects on it. It sounds like a new way to way. I want eight hundred satellite that from now on or that kind of thing. Yeah i don't know just making sure everything in the song has played an doing the best. It can to make a unique salt. I love a ban. I i love this whole conversation. I really. I wasn't sure exactly what we were going to talk about. But i feel like we hit a couple of themes like really strongly. I really enjoyed this. Thank you no thank you. It was a interesting conversation. I see that kathleen now. The yeah you know. He's been there the whole time. Which is rare usually about halfway through. He gets up and yells at me. It's a good sign. Okay yeah no. He's he's chilin Yes ma'am that's it. We don't gotta draw this out. I appreciate you doing. I hope you had a good time and Yeah yeah love to come back and do it again sometime. Yes thank you for having me on. We'll play like ramble on about random stuff too much talk too much about just one thing. It's stuck on. Oh no that's literally impact. That's like the point of this show is doing that right. I by then like start talking so much. It didn't make sense. Oh no it was great man. I really really truly enjoyed it. And think yeah. I think everybody watching this and everybody. Who's gonna listen to. this later. Feels the same way man. This was this was fantastic. I appreciate it. And it's great to meet you dude. Thank you and have a great rescue damon. I'm excited excited for the next time. We cross pads. Well if you're down here there's a lot of coffee place Hey that sounds like a plan your day. It's been great talking to you talking. Thank you sir take care.

abelson willie joy Evan gilead disley fessel twitter dandan dewitt evangeline tom york Duda pat nicot megan cappelli becca Curry foley sharon sound club Disney
213: Flosstradamus (returns! again!)

Back To Back

1:45:12 hr | 4 months ago

213: Flosstradamus (returns! again!)

"So this is back. what's up back. Backers this is willie joy. Welcome to the show. This is back to back. This is my podcast were back. How are you how you feeling. It's good to be back with you. I hope you're doing good guys. Eat is a brave new world out there right now. There is so much going on everything starting to open back up and shout out to all of my international listeners. I know for some of y'all it is not quite that open yet. But we're all gonna get there eventually and big changes at the podcast as well. We are in the second week of recording episodes live on twitch and man. You know what. It's been a lot of fun returning to the show we recorded this live on twitch. Last week floss the all time. Mvp of the podcast. I think he's been on more than any other guest A close friend of mine and somebody who actually. I hadn't talked to in a little while and i felt bad about it. So what you're going to hear is you know. Not only where he's at. What's up with foster 'damas. What's going on with hoodie nation but You're going to hear us catching up because it had been a minute. Floss spot dates right now. Going to be coming to a city near you very soon. There's new music in the works. there's a lot going on so look go to lincoln the description. Follow flustered obama's. Keep up today with everything he's doing. You don't wanna miss him when he comes through town also in that description you're gonna find a couple more links one is for my twitch page which now every single week is getting recorded live and you can come sit in you can come. Ask us questions we're doing. Qna's we're taking questions from the audience we would love to. Have you come participate right now. I'm doing it every wednesday at two. Pm pacific five o'clock eastern. We might add some more. I might even start doing. I know couple podcasts. A week Some other content. I might dj on there. I might listen to some demos from my discord. I don't know what do you guys think. What are you guys. wanna hear me. Do you let me know. And speaking of the discord. That's going to be the link in the description of this episode. That i'm going to need you. I'm going to need you to click on. Look back toback discord. It's my favorite place on the internet and soon it can be yours as well. It is a great group of people. I'm in there every everyday if you want to reach me. That's the best way to do it. If you're a music producer come share what you're working on. Get some feedback meet some other producers link up say hi and then we will all be best friends forever. That's how it works. And by the way there seems to be a little confusion from people About this This transition to recording episodes live on twitch. I've gotten a whole bunch of messages of people. Asking me was the podcast still going to be released. Even though now you're doing it live on twitch And to those people. I say Here it is. You're listening to the podcast yet. Another changing we're coming out. Every single tuesday just like always. The only difference is that you could actually sit in on the recording of this episode. If you want to and that is every wednesday at two. Pm pacific five o'clock eastern. That's it man No other changes. We're going to keep these episodes going strong. I might even add some more. We might go crazy i. I don't know anything's possible. Bu today floss. Thomas is here the one the only one of my favorites and before covert hit before the pandemic even happened before any of us knew about it floss. It already decided to take a year off of touring to take a step back for year. You can listen to some of the other appearances. He's made on this show to hear him talk about. You know that kind of decision. How that came about the insane amount of touring that he's been doing for the last ten years that is enough to burn anybody out and so this year even before the pandemic was going to be a refocusing year and then the pandemic it and it was everybody's refocusing year and now coming out on the other side of it man. I could not be more excited. That lockdown ending is also coinciding with with floss returning to touring returning to putting out music. All of that. And i hope you're going to find this conversation inspiring to we cover a lot of ground if you do. I would love to hear from you if you would like to support this show. I would love your support. Best way to do that. Of course is just by spreading the word word of mouth that is what sustains us here at back to back so anytime you tag us in your stories anytime you put up a tweet letting other people know they should be listening recommending some your favourite episodes to your friends telling an artists that they should come on the show. All of that we love to see it and anytime i do see it anytime i'm getting tagged i'm at willie joy. The show is at back to back pod. I'm of course going to be replying responding saying hi interacting with whatever you're putting out there i love talking to you guys whether it's live on twitch whether it's on the discord whether it's on social media anywhere Meeting you guys is one of the best parts of doing this. The community is what makes the show good so much love again to everybody. Out there supporting. I love y'all and i hope you enjoy this episode. Let's do it right now. This is me and flustered amiss. Back-back go buddy plastered on in the house. How you doing willie. I was thinking about this earlier. When we were taxed and i was like man just wanted i just want to be in the same room as you again and we always have good energy and i been missing you need. Yeah one hundred percent man. I mean it's crazy. Were traveling again. First of all you can do show is right. Yeah i read a few. And i have some coming up. I'll be one in boston last week. Amid i'm going to be done. A florida north carolina. Doing it again. It's weird. I'm ready but it also feels like like it's like the last summer and i don't want to go back to school like i'm like i don't want a couple more weeks summer. I just wanna chill but dude. While i was wondering this. 'cause i being you know let's take it back to pre cova d- right pre pandemic. You had already decided to take the year off and you know that was a that was a pre covid decision and then for everybody else. We were forced to take the year. A us for you man. I was trying to put myself in your shoes. Like you had already made that decision to to take your off to to just you know refocus work on music. Do whatever you wanted to do and that was that was your time. Was it weird that it ended up being like everybody's time as it was it was cool. Go that we wanted to join me. But i was a gland on being kind of isolated away from people for a little bit. Because i had spent fifteen plus years touring and being around people and traveling and stuff so it was. I really wanted to just check out for a few months at the top of twenty twenty and everyone else checked out to which is kinda cool. I wasn't getting mother. Had some so much to go out and do shows been like enticing back on the road so it was nice to just like definitely be sore started with it and have my friends join me and it could be in this this crazy presentation together. I mean that's that's true that's good. You could look at it this way feelings. If it were me and i was the one who decided to take the break. I would almost be a little annoyed like this was supposed to be like. This is my break. Not all your break. How i mean how does it feel like you know. Forget the pandemic. I i forget cova but just just for you going back to two shows and going back to whatever you know. The next phase of of floss out in public is going to be like. What was it weird to to accept shows again like was there something. Did you feel like you've gotten to a point where you ready or did you want something to be in place like. What was it like going back to that mindset i. I was expecting it to me and more grants than is like it feels comfortable. It feels like the past year was just a pause for me but also a lot of people like just like time to distinct policy in things allow. It's like oh this was comfortable again but some of it is like i said it's the end of summer vacation like some. I just want to stay home still. I've found comfort in doing my schedule here. And then there's a little bit of a daunting feeling like these shows and having to travel with run around the world and do that again. So i'm on the fence. All i know is when i did my shows. La i did a couple of the driving shows. How was that. Those are those are awesome. I like little four twenty do every year. And so i did it out here and that was my first time on stage in a year and that really felt like amazing for like the first fifteen to house. Our adrenalin everything comfortable. And then there's pause in the middle of the show that it was like wait. What am i doing like for the past. Three sixty five been gardening and like mike relaxing now like turning up on stage like a little bit of a self realization modeled. There yeah yeah it's weird. It's weird when you have those out of body moments on stage right where it's like. It's almost like you're watching yourself. Jewish yeah that's exactly what it was. It was weird like this. Just self-aware boat were just felt different. Like i wasn't used to it. Like i been doing that for so long. And then now i had got. I'm started doing it again. Just felt so new and different. And i don't know everything was different about it. So let's talk about what happened in the break before we talk about going back to it. I mean you work gardening. Alas there's like there's a lot of changes of shit. You had not been doing that. All kind of happened in the last year and it was like like you said i. I was doing gardening. I was. I was doing a lot of relaxing definitely for the first few months of twenty nine twenty. I decided by lab closed. And just didn't i needed to step away from everything in floss and and all of that type of stuff. I just needed to step in and get in touch with myself. And that's what i did. I like i hung up on the shelves. And then i was like mister rogers moment kim putting sweater but on the sweater became kurt name by beginning me and just had some time for myself just cool because the longest time that was getting up who was to loss thing so it was kind of reverse now so that's good just to not have to do anything. Career related a little bit. You just made me think about the same way that you know. I've seen you strapping on the loss. Best in the army the cabinets and all that now. I'm just thinking about mr roger showing up for work and the same vibe of ira here. We got him psyching himself up towards sweater other arm in the sweater. Gotta go help these kids. Men jetted kids do you have i mean. Do you have pre show rituals. I know for a while you were doing like the the big like a bunch of vitamins right before the show take a bunch of items would get on stage. Stomach ache onstage. No i mean. I've done everything for shows. Meditation take shots work on my site to the mary last-second but this is that i had a reset fast year. So i'm gonna try to approach into the friendly and try to keep it more on the meditative type zip just more relaxing like just calm down in myself before the show so i just wanted like soak it up a little bit more because i was so go before. I didn't really get to enjoy everything. So my goals moving forward at least these shows that are in the next couple of months later president enjoy that we had a year of not being able to have that. So i just really wanna soak it up when i get back to to doing these shows. Yeah yeah yeah. Could you tell a different vibe from the audience Even like at the car shows by people being deprived. And it's it's wild lake shows especially they were those car shows. The worthies packed like high energy. Mostert shows that. I knew but the energy was there because people have been deprived of it and i did one show florida as well and it feels that way like the energy is like even more extreme. Because we've been just like anything at what is it Distance makes it harder founder. Type stuff. i think that that's where everyone's going through a winter. Like a little lost part of here in la just it was so much energy there because people have not had it so excited for us as artists meeting forward compared to be a little more free with ourselves and do different things because the crowd is so wonderful. Whatever you're about to do. Yeah man. And i think that's. That's what to me. One of the biggest positives you know looking in the silver linings of all the pandemic is that for us. There's theory that freedom. Now right. Because i think when i think when that constant stream of shows and tracks and dj's posting recap videos and your whole field is that it's easy for everybody the fans and the artists to to kind of just think like there's a way you should be doing it and that if it isn't like that then there's something wrong with it or you're not doing it right. You know what i mean. I agree with that too. It's i don't know if it's the internet or whatever there's like a lot of copycat mentality like is something works and then we all tend to go towards that. And i think that's the same with deejays that's to like. There's certain songs that were there. Certain things that dislike are going to be a home run. And i think we as deejays we supposed to curate tonight and i think we choose a lot of that and so we have a mindset with social media. Vince but i think i'm going to try push as much as possible. It's so easy to get carton due to do a little bit of all but also brings. Yeah what are you. What are you thinking man. I mean not to not to give anything away but you know coming back like other than other than your mindset. You know musically what do you think about shadow wise. What are you thinking about. You have ideas that you're excited about two to bring back out. Yeah i've been. I've been making music. That's kind of more like uk influenced feels. Like i don't know like the the next few songs. I have are going to be very like old school like you jay. Garish endurance type stuff. Sidewise ongoing they're also. Dj set wise like known for like sanger banger. And i wanna to have more mellow parts of my said to cool vibe and then make it so when the bags come in. It's even more intense. Yeah i was something. I don't know about when i was doing before. But it just kept getting more and more extreme extreme extreme and like to the point where breakdowns would be. Only a few bars hit again. And i'm like i. I wanted to milk things a little bit more yet. Just finding music can even going throwing back to older songs that have longer breakdowns or longer. Buildouts things to create more tension yemen. Well that's that makes total sense to me. Because i think when you know say when like slot you and i always talk about like floss. One point zero two point zero it cetera. And if we're talking about like the beginning of floss two point oh like the start of this idiom trap movement like. There wasn't a precedent for any of this right so it was easy an exciting to be like okay. We made this hard but like what are we made one. That was even a little harder than that. You know and that was like new and fresh and exciting but i i feel the same way man. Now it's like. I don't know it's it's this arms race at it's everything is so maximal now that you can even see in the crowds like a big big big medium show like when there is a breakdown people just kind of like look look away. Stop egg attended like it's just people waiting for drops. Like i feel like you'll just programmed for that and Yeah we gotta we gotta change that. I think the hopefully that's does pandemic did was kind of put a little bit of a reset in that maximum maximum maximum these breakdowns can can be there now and also house music being so popular especially the chiller stackhouse is. I think that it's making it. So things can chill and even longer mixes game happen like the format of banger. Bangla bangers starting to go away and these long build-ups the drop of a attack. How song is like junior phase. It'll just hits you a little bit but just kind right out. That can even blend into like indian trapped side of things one hundred percent men before you hopped on year We were listening to to some older loss stuff. And i put on which i totally forgot about. Put on the remix. You did for sub focus. Oh yeah today the tidal wave remix and that one i was just talking about it in the chat was like it's so simple and it's like just a few elements and it's not like hard in the sense of like aggressive but it hit so hard still you know like that's what i think people are forgetting is that there's other ways to me big tune. There's other ways to make bangers by. It's just going back to what i was saying earlier that i think people have gotten program to think there's only one way to me and that if it's not that it's not a banger. It's not competitive with everyone else's what is just starting now but it could just need that a lot of times the us as deejays ended fans they listen to just drop. Just the dodgers the drops of try to focus on niagara the energy in that. Drop make that so maximum maximum but always remix or like saying tack housed. It's all about the lead up to that drought yet. It's all creating all that tension whether there's anti tension that is for some sort of way to build attention up to that drop Instead of focusing on the drought and making that the craziest thing ever why not do things before the draft should make that dropped zero bigger. Even though i it is of that this is like. I don't know there's ways you can read that in and that's kind of what i've been doing. He's trying to make the intros breakdowns and stuff has anti climatic moment so then the drive is a little more effective. Yeah i love that man. It's like we were listening to this on the stream. But i was listening to this earlier today because i liked it anytime. I know talking to someone. I'll go and listen to their shit for a while just to kinda get the vibe before we talked and i just put on mosh pit and i hadn't actually listened to that full song in a long time. Start to finish and it really struck me man. Because that song had such a crazy effects on the edm world this crazy ripple effect i think is still going on today but when you sit back and listen to it it's i think an example of the stuff we're talking about right now. It doesn't even have a draft way and yet you know when when you play that in the club. I mean anyone who's been to any of your. Your shows knows what happens. I mean it's pandemonium y- in it is is a rap song with a great beat with a couple touches of some some shit some hard style since in the back but it's not even that overt. I don't know man when you think back to that. What do you think about like what do you remember about making mosh pits. Well whole studio session was was so loud. That was early trap and we we wanted to get more rappers on her songs and so we went to atlanta set up studio sessions with transporter and one of them was with casino. Casino had a song like diamonds dripping wet at the time. It was just like this ridiculous song. His brilliant energy as we get him in the studio and he showed up and we ended up showing had like what happens under shows. He didn't even know by edna trapper. Anything we show videos and show them with the mosh bids were things like four g but he e called marsh. He didn't know what right we showed. That wasn't he just got super hyping super apps. The we're in the studio is energy. He brought his energy to what he saw. What the world was and we kept encouraging him in the virus so good like he just kept turning up turning up turning up the energy captivated on that records. But like you said the beat is just like a it is just a it is like a buildup drop. There's a little bit of a build up and there's a little bit of a drop but it doesn't have. I got crazy. Wild century dropped. He's rapping over the drought which is headed. And that's another thing. I want to start doing too. I want to bring back that franken. Go up there. Yeah yeah the crunch energy for sir. We gotta talk about lil jon in a second but No i was going to say even the idea. You just got me big and now you know we were talking about how they're sort of this wants to scene starts. It's like building on top of each other and everything's getting crazier and sometimes it gets to be too much and back when mosh pit came out. I mean just the idea of calling for a mosh pit at your shows was still kinda new as a dj right. Even that idea which now it's like if there's not a mosh pit i think a lotta deejays like i didn't do a good job you know it's crazy. I know there were people even. I remember that people are like why people mashing ems shows. Why are they. Mashing it. A dj set. I know got mad at me. Not mad at me but who got mad when i was talking to him about. That was cedric bay auto. Yeah he was he was like he was hilarious when he was on this podcast but he he was just like he was very opinionated and talking about how he did not understand what was happening with like rap coming into dance music and he was just i kinda loved him for it because he was just very much like no. I don't like this. this is bad. Because like he's he's like mosh pit. Now is kind amazing. It's funny we all have our own perspectives. Dj culture and dance music and especially houses american. We have a different take on the european. The indians a totally different energy. So i can see for him. Probably feel so foreign and a lot of times when people have something new coming into their world they want to hold onto. What they know can accept new things ono. Intense yeah yeah and i'm sure there's that pressure to and i wanna make it clear i'm not even i'm not saying anything about him at all. I got a lot of love for him. But i think there's a thing as any artist. Forget deejays is any artists. When there's like a new way of that's happening the you necessarily relate to that you feel like i'm gonna have to do now is this. The end is what. I'm doing not cool anymore. Like how do i. How do i deal with changing times. I mean that's like that's the eternal artists question is especially the dj question for sure. It's so funny you said that. That's what i remember when dubs said like judge scurrilous bro steps. Kind of stuff came along. It sounded so it was like sounded like toronto source dinosaurs dinosaurs robots and like i was so intense and this is scary monsters. Nice sprites or whatever at the time was like so. I don't understand this. And like i had that mentality but it's so funny. I look at that song. In retrospect i listened to that song. Now it sounds soft compared to where things now right. I was so foreign to me. But i didn't know how to accept it but yeah yeah and sometimes it's just time sometimes it seeing it in the right context like there have definitely been songs. I mean all of us had sent songs from people all the time or you know. Someone's like hey check out this new artists blah blah and. I tend to be fairly judgmental like i. Listen and there's been so many times where i've been like no not for me now. This sucks and then. I'll see somebody perform or a hero song and a club and just completely changed the way. My brain is wired. I don't know that to me is part of the beauty of what we do. Like specifically dj. And all that is that there's a live elements something that you create with the people in front of you. The people in the room at the same time. That won't i don't know i guess. Probably all musicians. Feel that way. But i there's something about dj where he just you play the right song at the right time. You can create this energy. I don't even know what it is. I understood. I told you about what you mean this. This past year was so hard because we didn't have that we didn't have these like the club festival to to show us what these tracks are like like. We make this music to display at a club. festival and since i wasn't really there could lead back as an artist. Creating music as well as artists are. Dj trying to discover new music. It was weird like kind of paused. Everything that i'm excited to see. What gets birthed out of this. We're going to start back where we left at the end of tournai gina's tech out something out or is it. People are going to turn up again with mike heavier tracks. I don't know but as the bulls cubs start opening up. I'm excited to see what comes out of this. What is the next wave because now we're getting back to that just hope people take risks. Man i i hope people realize after this that you can cause i think you know the livestreams and all the stuff that happened over the pandemic. I think maybe taught people that. Oh yeah you can step out of the box in. There is an audience for it and all that but then i. I'm sure you see this as much as i do. You know the the systems that are in place in the gatekeepers of the industry are very much in my opinion in my opinion trying to sort of just be like back to normal guys like. Let's just let's just run the playbook you know what i mean. And that's what happens in the industry side of our industry is people stick by the playbook or why is like the not encouraging people to push things forward but when someone pushes it forward than the industry is like only got do this. We gotta do this now. And it's like why not encourage people to push it forward because then those things will birth all of this new new genres new new ideas by something about the management side or whatever of the industry that just wants to keep it by the book and they're afraid to take risks but the artists are the ones that are willing to take this. So yeah sometimes. Sometimes i mean i think you know from the management side in the business side. Of course they're just trying to keep the money going which is good. I mean that's like what we need them for. You know it's it's a good kind of relationship. The art is manager business relationship. It enables all of us to do what we do but Yeah i don't know man. I i really hope it changes. I mean you like. let's talk about. Let's talk about shows in general not the music side but the the presentation of it because i feel like has always been forward thinking about the way you put on shows and the way it looks in the way it feels. It's always just different. And i cannot go all the way back to the chicago days. When you guys were were throwing shows in small venues with what. I assume were shoestring budgets and making a lot of the stage in the set yourself with some of your friends all the way up until you know like the biggest clashes is where it's built this like i don't even. What are you the car stage. What did you call that. Edge was like that was the bunker one point now the on stage and had beside fallout shelter and then two point of medals man. Yeah we build a huge multi level thing that had like a t shirt cannon on it and spotlights shirt candidates. No good tha. that's that was. The thing was always trying to do something that wasn't doing so when we first came out on the trap stuff. Edm was all like there's a screen behind you displaying your visual so we turn off the screen. Let's do strobe lights and black. let's keep it simple and like that because the opposite of whatever it felt different like as soon as we went on stage and screen shuts off. Dr it's like gloomy and there's destroyed and then same thing as riyadh bigger. We started to like take what do similar things but like bring physical props on stage. A lot of people weren't taking the risk of bring physical Put a in car on stage like like joyride. Does that now but like at the time. I'd the writers is at this stage. Wise they're this. Bugger has day. You just like we really wanted to do that. So have you ever talked to joyride about that. I feel like you youtuber. Kinda the only people who can talk about the experience of having to put a car on stage and what a headache bet must be. I should talk to that. I oh i want to do what it is man. He's another one who you can just tell like. I think of him and you not as the same thing but in the same kind of area where he is just clearly so far on his own ads doing things exactly how he wants to do it. And i don't know he he. He's someone i find very inspiring. If he's early just making the music he wants to make. He's putting on the show as he wants to do. He's clearly like the things he puts out their cars and all that you can tell he like likes cars. It's like a passion in the school that he does. He puts his own identity into his brand into his mba's art thing. I guess taking it back so that like putting cars on stage and things like that. I think it'll be a little while so we're doing that again. Like doing nurses were like having production shows. I mean everything took a hit right now. Like all industries took a hit financially like doing shows again the budget about to do the budgets. A lot lower. We were able to hook on stage and things like that. When the budget's higher hiring we were able to bring out a crew and things like that bull everything is starting back up and he thinks everything the whole world is starting back up. And it's like this. We're all trying to figure ourselves out. We had a europe of interest section on ourselves. We had a year of introspection on our communities and our society. There's so much interest that has happened in the past year. The now we're all getting the floodgates opened again to come back into the world's in some of us wanna grasp on what it's like in twenty nineteen but we also have grown so much in twenty twenty so it's like i'm excited to see where everything is as right now. Were all trying to figure it out. And that's what i'm trying to be doing. These shows is more of a discovery period like a. Let's come back and do something next level at all this. I'm like where are where i as kurt. What am i loss whereas industry where how does the spill at the. I'm just trying all. I'm excited to play again but i'm just like also excited Like what is next for everything through the beautiful part of a man you can go in front of a crowd and figure it out together like that's so much more exciting to me than having a fully prepared show where you execute it and then you get to the end of it and you know exactly what's going to happen. It's not knowing what's going to happen. That makes it so exciting and to take it back to something you said a second ago where one thing that i think is always done and bit makes you stand out is looking at what everyone is doing and not doing that. Going away from that read. And if everyone is you know festivals are back in like these big stages are back. We're seeing all these visuals and to me. That's exciting to be like okay. Let's not do that like if everything's trying to get big again. We'll let's actually tried to get smaller and what's fun and what's exciting and new there. That's a new idea. I haven't heard of a dj trying to like scale it down and make it interesting. you know. That's a good man and this is we're gonna talk about this that i'll even say for a while i wasn't being i wasn't inspired by the street festivals and things like that and the thing that got me super inspired recently was the whole thi space. And we're going to talk about that. But i definitely got subaru nurses that and was doing the things i did in the show. Dj world in this space. I didn't have shows so i was like well. How can i curate. And events with vessel t space. And that's when i started to do is explore that create an experience for people in this space just like i did where i created experience in the dj space. That i can now do not space and it sought like early soundcloud days have felt like early trap days where you could just do anything wars no rules and just try something though painted the wall cbs's sticks and that's i got my inspiration recently to do that. Yeah i mean. let's. Let's talk about. Because i i have so far of not on purpose but i've avoided talking about it. Fda as i have not mentioned on this podcast. But that's really just because it's something. I was not super involved in. So i didn't feel like i have a lot to offer but i talked to you about it privately a lot and i know it was a big source of inspiration for you and i mean part of that was also finding a new community right because i know you were talking about clubhouse and you really found like a thriving thing there is that still going on by the way it definitely has dwindled a little bit now that the world is coming back. That world has gotten a lot done started down a little bit of the rooms used to be big rooms now. They're smaller rooms and yeah. It's it's still happening but it's like you know my my frequency on their on it as much as i used to be too. Yeah well how did you let. Let's talk about the nfc thing. Let's let's jump into it. I mean for you. How did it start for you. What was what was the first thing that kind of attracted you to that space. Because i know you're always looking for what's new. What's fresh like culturally seeing it. Something that you know that can vibe with like what you're doing as an artist like i think that's something you've always been interested in. How did it come across your your world. yeah i'm like i'm always in detach in like that's almost like do know this versus always shown plug ins and things like that because the tech side of music and the tech side of anything is always attractive Anything new tool new thing is always attracted me and the nfc space it was. It was a way to use technology and art to kind of get merged technology. Art like i do doing music but in this new space it was like it was so that was attractive and also like i said a minute ago. There's just no rules. There were no walls up. And i feel like in music. The walls had been up for so long. This is what we should do. This works all the things you would talk with us. Things work this way but in the end at t as we don't know what everyone and so for me i was just less fuck around and used up so i did i. I was like. I wanted to create an experience with his. So my the i g i released had in the audio of audio to visualize audio would see seed phrase to a crypto analyze the audio enough t. You could see the seat phase and the first person that seat as into their madame asked wallet get a team. And then people started using that as almost like a jio cast dropbox in theory in their people like other energies in their strange this hidden wallin's exchange and and then i also made the world's for smokable. Nfc where i like some webster technology Had made a like coated this. This technology Plug in the computer. It gives you another nfc. So i was just trying to look at that whole space in a way that was just like how can i do what i've done before in the space to create an experience. That was the main thing what i do is a dj create experience for fans for people. And i wanted to do that in this space. And that's what i did. Then i don't think i well okay. I two things first of all before we get off the nfc thing. I mean how did people react to it because those those ideas are awesome. And i have to imagine that community was stoked on it. Like is it something. Is it something you think you're going to keep up like this. Is me asking you as a complete ignorant person. Because i am out of the. Nfc world like does does it have legs like what do you see for yourselves like the future of your involvement with it. Yeah i think it'll it either blockchain technology or jesus. Well i think they'll always be part of the of i'm doing with lawson the next few years and whether that is just bauer looking at. It's almost like a oppress piece in away. So i have a song coming out. I definitely want to do an nfc experience with the song. Or if i had show maybe there's a nfc experience that can happen with that by the. That's that's the way. I look at it as an extension. I don't look at it. As like i'm shifting over there who i am now. Nfc artists like. I think it's going to be just like an added layer onto. What i do is flaw. So i use blockchain technologies that ticket sales lurch sales and t stuff to maybe sell like a visual piece. That comes with the audio piece that i'm using on spotify china bridge both of those worlds. It's kind of it now. Yeah i love that man. And i think that's hard of lost or dominance that i don't think gets talked about enough. I don't think enough people realize the tax side of it and your involvement with all bad like dating way way way way back like that not only the fact that you know your engineering everything. You're mixing and mastering everything. And i know just because i've known you for so long. How in depth hugo with. And how much time you spend on all that but even you know what i just thought of while you were talking about what you did with the is was he do you remember. I'm sure you do. I don't remember what festival this was. But when you made that like mobile wifi networks so that would like correct me. If i'm wrong but i mean like it was like a wifi network in. Somebody's backpack crowd that if you are in proximity to it would basically like takeover your phone. Yeah that's what it was. We debuted at at at. Some of western idea was didn't twenty eleven myself. West in i've been going to celebrate is almost like two thousand seven. Maybe in there's never cell phone signal there. there was never wifi. It's always people going to. Hotels are trying to find a way to get signal the figure out where things worse in. So let's make these wifi lunchboxes actually built these like little lunchboxes are we put them throughout south by south west and so if someone would phone in like went to the lynxes network her whatever it was the net year network or apple whatever it would automatically take over the phone and they thought they were getting free wifi but they went to facebook dot com and went to change facebook to the voss page for him and the download exclusive music from us could see where we're playing throughout south by south west. You could get backgrounds for your phone. And it was just a way to take over someone else's phone but creating experience on their song and we use it up festivals every now and again to create little just little adage elements to show that you can have experienced to yourself. I love that man. And i think there's so much possibility for that in the future to shift like that you know and i think that that's where the nfc stuck in canada bridge in suet is like people can have a show like if you go to joy performance and your fifteen feet from sage for five minutes then maybe you're automatically download. The new will enjoy song or a choice that mustard. I'm upset gained two points. I'd like to go by piece of murchison of time and then there's really cool stuff. We can do that for you could. You're now you're making me think like level 'cause if you if you teamed up with some other artists to make it almost like an augmented reality thing it could be like you know go to the go to the floss show and then go to my show and if you go to both then you get you know like the the remix i did for you. Sent your like where. It's a bunch of artists collaborating in a different way than just music. I dunno i dunno. That's all those energies can be resolved into. Let's say i wasn't rich. Let's say let's say they start with joy in washington. Dc and then. They went and saw las vegas but then they now they have one really joy point loss that gives them the joints loss. Remix go to two different places. In finally unlocking poking on type stuff happened they get that an is dope unless they don't want it they can also resell it and someone else can by then you and i both can get split of energy which is cool as it gets. Resold actually have a little bit of royalties on these things. And i think there's just so much cool stuff for this. It's still really archaic and county awkward right now. But i feel like we start early. Adopting and we start using it as artist. It will only get better and easier for the fans. Get easier for us as artists when this gets bigger and five years three years. Whatever it'll just make this whole thing just be a whole new experience for the fans and we just need to be early adopters in through this offered right now i think yeah i i love that man one. I'm glad as somebody who's not always an early adopter. I'm glad you're out there doing it because you you know if i hear it from you. It's it's an easier salad. Makes me more site to think of this shit. You know one of the it makes other people listening watching site to. Oh absolutely man. I remember when you did the the hostile wifi takeover thing Remember 'cause it was chris stewart right. Who had the back shattuck Our friend chris. Stewart who now runs the the grid life festivals and does amazing events all over the country but I remember it just like strapping on the backpack. And maybe my memory has candid shaves overtime but my memory of him as being like pretty worried about it and he him just being like. I think this is illegal. I don't know if i should be doing this me back. Yeah he probably did big ass back. Typing radiation will do its back. Oh man but you're talking about another thing you just reminded me of was You know talk about remix. Is that that we've done for each other. I had this. I had this memory pop into my head the other day of when i did the mosh pit remix for you and i remember you tell me. I don't know if you remember any of this but for my perspective. I just wanted to talk this moment out because i've been sort of analyzing it in the last couple of days i remember. I made this demo. And i sent it to you and it was kind of i mean people can go listen to to what it is. It's a similar concept. Like i i used metal guitars and metal drums. And like kinda. Turn it into this different vibe to to match the mosh pit energy read. I sent you this very rough demo. And i remember you called me and i still remember where i was when i got that. Call and you're super stoked and you're like hey man cool idea I'm working with with dillon francis. Right now we're doing this deal. Saddam s thing and like maybe we could all like work on this together and we could all put it out together. And and i more or less said no to that and i'm not in a rude way but i think it in like an awkward way. I was like oh man i just i have this concept and i wanna do it and looking back i was like. That's the stupidest shit. I've one of the stupidest things i've ever done was not work with my friends to make a cool idea better. Not that i still love the remix. But i thinking about it. I'll finish this story and then you tell me what you remember about it thinking back on it. I was like you know what i had. Actually i had worked with bigger artists to. I'm not gonna name like in the months up to that. And i didn't really work out. I was happy with. And i think like i i was just in this weird protective mindset and so i think i would just automatically like my brandon. Even let me think about it. And it's so weird thinking back to those moments so first of all tell me if that checks out with your memory segment. I was wondering like have you had moments like that where you kind of reacted based on something that happened in the past in your career and then you look back on. It wonder what had happened to be made a different choice. Yeah i mean so. Yes i do. Remember that that call but i all. I'm actually glad that you did do it. Your way and then i think you did make the right decision that like maybe if we did touch ruined it in its own way too and like i really talked to version. The whole mental idea was amazing. Throwing that in there as you know. I was using that in our set always. I always like played years. Elect low break. Diet has so much energy. So i like i think everything happens for a reason. You can get super happy with as you didn't make the right choice and then as for as for that happened happens a lot. I don't. it always discourages me. So like i've had things where i've been during before an amazing hesitant to make moves in life as well as in my career and like even the senate t space. There's a lot of crazy shit that happened during that that is like really put a sour taste of our mouth and i'm kind of hesitant to go forward on some other teased because of house our was so it happens a lot and i think that there's cows the the winds are always. They always still good. But the the losses in the hurt order a pain a means of so much more. That hinders the career. So much more. But i need to start focusing on the winds maybe senator to just focus on those wins and those jimmy propelled him forward by. I have a tendency of getting burned. And i just like henderson henderson. Loss used to be two people wasn't became one. There is hope there is a little bit of that sitting there too. And so i just didn't over a lot of that happens over time. It's just how managed that but the last thing you touch on your on your question is there are so many songs demos that people have sent me like. The big songs came out. And i was. I could have been a part of those. And i just like at the time. I wasn't ready. I didn't respond to an email entire or i was going through life shit in miss those opportunities but i still feel like if you're open minded if you're ready other opportunities will win so even though you passed up on the desert almost saying there can't be another opportunity that will come in come to you at some heart over sherman. Yeah and it's not even like. I don't even look back on it in terms of like i like i'm not down on myself. It was just like oh. That would've been fun like that. That to me is really what it is like. I don't know and this is something. I've been talking about with a lot of people on the podcast lately. And you and i have these conversations all the time privately of like how do we just not even as artists people like just not second. Guess ourselves so much be in the moment more. Make fun decision without worrying so much about the past of it. I mean i don't know man. Have you feel like you've been on this like this. This zen quest like trying to get yourself there in the last few years and especially this last year. Have you figured out anything differently for you. Know just keeping yourself in a good head space keeping what you do fun and exciting. I mean i'm still on that question. It i wish. I could say the ones one thing but the energy space was that on and that was like sledge like i said earlier but i'll say it again. The borders weren't there the boundaries went their management. Didn't have idea of where were so. They didn't have the sense that you should or shouldn't do something it was all. I could just do whatever i wanted. And that salt amazing and that's what it felt like when i was first making music and knowing been new. Who's lost once. I was like i'm gonna do this and this because it doesn't matter no one says you're doing it this way razz bigger as your weirdos on like whatever like you have all these influences fans into managed services you your own self doubt in zoo and trying to crank a past fluids as you. Yeah man i got. The past does especially if you have a brand. That is something you're past things you did with that brand carry sword in there so if i start making tech house as loss to what you're the mosh pit turn-up edm festival dude. And you just do it has its own way to and so the thing that is sad is those are so conscious thoughts while i sit down to create music while i sit to sit down and mega set but i'm trying to use the energy of the unknown right now owns on one shoe kind of guide me and my career so i want to experiment with different. Sounds different genres. Like i said early long breakdowns and sets just do things a little bit different. Maybe those will define the new sound who i am that inspires needed do his. Yeah man i i love that. I mean i've been trying to check in with myself. When i'm doing creative stuff especially like say i'm sitting down to make a song or something and if it's not fun if i'm if i'm kinda slogging through being like okay. Why isn't this is. it's basically two. Why is this not fun right now. And what would be a fun thing to do right now. You know so. It's like trying to make it as simple as possible and for me. I talked to you a little bit about this. But like over like the winner like last december january. I i had maybe like three weeks all by myself just in my place and i was really looking at a time to try to make it like a one person writing cabin just like make a whole bunch of shed and the first couple of days it was a little rough and i was trying to figure out it was like i was trying to you know i was like i'm going to sound design. A bunch of cool sounds and really like make this whole tool kit for myself. And it just wasn't going to plan and i i had one of those moments where i was like. Well what would it be fun to do it. This is not fun. Well be fun. And what i ended up doing for like most of those weeks was just no laptop speakers one contact piano and just like writing a bunch of melodies throwing like break beats under them like just fully sampled break beats and just trying to like build out sounding as quickly as possible. It wasn't even a song just like something that was fun to make. That was the only goal ignoring about structure. Now where abouts how. It's gonna work in a club. None of it. But just like shit. That i was having fun doing. And i don't know really rewired my brand to have that couple weeks where i'm just doing nothing. But like a simple fund saying over and over. I felt different since then. When i'm working on music now. I don't know if it's the same for you. I love that it's like you were just like doing exercise on how you approach making music because before probably did do sound designed you did x. y. and z. But this way was totally new. Just like you. And some melodies. I love that melodies innocent and you can turn that into whatever else you want later but at the moment it's all about just a melody feeling have and asterix feeling. I think that that's the one thing that inspires me like. i'm big on collaboration. And in there's two things about when you're colliding with somebody. There's an energy there. There's something about that moment is your there's pressure and you have to like drink and make something of that moment and like you can vibe with mother person and mike if there's a good energy than it's a slight those little walls that come up on so low tweaking cynthia whatever. Those aren't there. Because i don't have any time with someone there thereby inviting. I just want to keep that going. So that's like the main thing was like. I'm really looking forward to coming back to real life. Where like eating more studio sessions working with people sending ideas back and forth just finding and hundred percent man. I that's another thing i. I don't think everyone knows how much that was happening. Pre cove it. I mean just in general you know for hundreds of years break of it but for us like how much music gets made that nobody hears and how much of our time is spent just working on stuff. That doesn't actually come out. And you know a lot of that. Like you said can be really creatively inspiring and helpful. Even if it doesn't end up being something years you know something anyone. Here's now it's true like the abelson. Jim have sometimes. There's a good thing about that. Like just making weird loops ideas. I wish there was a way to remember it. All 'cause like every once in a while i'll go through my heart dr. Allison listen to these sessions. That was why didn't work on that. Or this is trash on wireless. There's something about that that i wish there is. There might be a tool sometime. Like have all of our demos he listen to any w oppa. I forget about things a lot of times. And i work at all these clouds and started projects. You and i have a five of the new started dislike. I wish there was a way to come back to those things in a way. But yeah i i hear you man. I mean there's definitely could work out some kind of system even if it's like a hockey or something bitches at the end of abelson before you quit out just hit the hockey. And it'll just export an mp three to dropbox folder. They won't even listen to it for a year or more. But then you can kinda just go back and like scroll through. Scroll through folder. Something like that. I mean let. Let's talk about collaboration for a little bit. 'cause that's something that i think especially newer artists don't always understand how that works or sort of what the what the politics of it are. I mean for you collaborating with somebody. You have zero. You'd like to do it you like to be it. Sounds like in the in the same physical spaces somebody you like to build something in the moment you like to have something to bring in with. What's your favorite way to do it. So for me. I i love to be with people like in general. I think that's why clubhouses such a big thing for me. It really spoke to who. I am as a person and so some artists don't like to collapse. Some people are just solo artists in their amazing that way. But the way i work is i liked to have another person bounce ideas of bringing an idea to and a lot of times studio sessions off bring in like i'll have vibe or or listen to something or someone else's working on are we take these influences and i'll pull up references like i'd be like there's this fake blood song from two thousand and three that's like has this cool idea. Let's take maybe a break beat from prodigy song and like let's try to find ways to bring those together but that's the way i create. I'm i'm a dj. I i i make. Dj sets the majority of the time. I'm always bridging ideas together genres together. Someone i get into studio. I kind of do the same thing. And i like bridging two ideas together of another artist another group in myself and we just kind of merged together and create something new. That sounds this. Daljit was sounds. Futuristic is kinda by ideas man that's the that's the key that's the secret i mean if you can effectively do that like something. That's not style gic and fresh and forward thinking at that. I feel like that's my entire life. I've just been trying to make shit like that. Like yeah it's funny how do you feel about like talking about nostalgia and talking about the way people you you're older work. This is a question. Actually somebody asked in my discord. The other day was you know. How do you feel when people compare your current work. Your new work to your old work. Is that something you do like. How do you feel about. You know your old stuff bursts. Your new stuff does it. Influence the way you make new music. Do people reaction influence it. Is it something you think about it. All yeah i mean all of those do sadly like all of the all of the past and has an fans and everything. I listened to too much of that. Which is because i care. I care about the fans offense or what. Support me to be able to do what we do. Listen to them. And i wanted to find a way to open source even like the creation of my music like give it to the fans. Have them getting back. But i just don't know yet how to do that without it. Like fully hindering. The as you're saying for the old songs like the the old songs in the old sound dozens of it's the the new in a way and i'm trying to go back to that. I think i was going. I went away from the loss of business trying to get a little more. I don't even know a little more aggressive in a way. That wasn't what it sounded lights original tribes stuff. And i'm trying to get back to that again like a big back to the original simple idiom trapped like more conflicts stuffs the all that all of that stuff towards me and i don't know it can be hindering. Also he'd be helping. It just depends. On how i take it absolutely man i mean. Do you have good memories of the old stuff like when you hear old songs that you made. Does it bring out memories. I desert like transport. You back there or is it kind of more of a like just. How does this work in the current moment kind of thing. Yeah i mean it does and this is a weird thing. I'll even listen to hold old stuff like before the trust us to but so. Wow those playing the song. I did this remix van. Us royalty in like ya. Yes i don't even know two thousand Eight maybe. I don't even know and i did a remix for them and it's like this weird world the indie song. It was before all that stuff. But i listen to the other day i was dober- feels like major lazer right now. There's guitar thing. And as i got like a little baseline and i asked of inspires me in the way. That is just how cool. This was a time where i was trying to figure out how to make music. I get to listen to what i messed up in the song but i also get inspired to where i was at the time and how i was learning and i didn't have any definition of what those to do something about this now. I feel like. I put myself through this little box on that create music and at that time the again back to the whole time it was just so over there was no box i can just do whatever i wanted however i wanted so i need to find more ways to get back to that howard saying right now while i live what you're saying though and i think bats are really good note for any like up and coming producer or anyone who's sort of you know has some some back catalogue poster something they've made where you look back and you're like oh i should have changed this or all. I could improve this. I think this is an awesome way to look at it does. Oh you can re-inspire yourself with your own work like go back and be like instead of looking at like what you did wrong the first time be like oh i had a cool idea back then took this idea and kind of brought it into the now and with all this knowledge i have now and knowing what i would have done differently like what can i do with that and i think reverse to. There's a lot of times when i get stuck in working on a song. I wanna changes on a change. That i wanna change this one released yet but i think part of it is judas. Put it out there. Let people criticize up whatever they want. And then it's out there in the things. I wanted to change in that one song. I can change in the next one. It's just like i don't get stuck in my arm. No means he's he's the mix of be better. Whatever and keep pushing it back and back in back in it never comes out. It comes late. Just put it out. Let the internet do what it does to it. And then then listen to later. Maybe you could have done xyz different. So do those in the next song pads and all you gotta do. Yeah man well. It's you know talking about nostalgia talking about memories i mean you and i can go down so many roads but and by the way we have for anybody watching this listening to this afterwards Plus is the all time. Mvp of the back-back podcast. So we've done a bunch of episodes all you guys need to go and listen to you to get all the history all the back story but one thing. I don't think we've talked about that. Occurred to me was was the sound clash. Ep that i was i was listening to the other day and i had sort of forgotton. How many big songs were on there. And how many there wasn't like there is one song that really was like three or four songs that i feel like all change. The game in all still get played today on a single ep. And that like looking back. I was like man. This was like the peak moment of like what trap was at the time. And i don't know if there was ever the same since then like if we look at that ebay so we're talking about you know and we were talking about collaboration right so we're talking about what's sound clash with troy and Prison riot with gte. Good times ahead and little john both whom we already mentioned tiny about. I mean there's so many men. What do you remember about making that ep. Where were you ask. What are you what comes to mind is so weird to me. I'm in hindsight. It was as a huge blair because things just kept going going going for us so it was just like the shows are getting bigger. Festivals are getting bigger than the everything just getting bigger and bigger at the time and even that we just made it and just everything thought right. There was no restriction at the time like there was no management like i've been saying restricting us or anything just like had all these ideas and made them happened like with with little bizarre little john here criminal boss bridge smarter a prison ryan and so he did vogel's on the prison riots on for us in like everything just flowed like every single even the software joy he like we sent to him. He did his stuff and send it back to a week in the song was pretty much done like everything was just so fast organic and i don't know what it was. What's the universe. Share knows what it was but the energy during that time just so slowing there was no restrictions or anything so i look back at it. All it wasn't it was almost a blurb but it wasn't a blur in a negative way. It was just like everything was just flowing. There was no restriction to the creative flow to the energy from the fans to everything just as such a former that time. And i love. I love the way those all those songs came out. Like you do with valentino. Khan outbound tino. Which is still getting played again now. Makusi will speak to is a lot of the songs even if it's just the the so the pre drop or the heated middle fingers up or sound sounds like a lot of those elements that appear using solely people sets now like before a drop. You'll hear like the sound clash. Three four classes do it or you'll hear like middle fingers at the air or the prisoner riot. Shit like preserved. Yeah man yeah. They're like they're used. That's the one thing that really really inspired on. Like a piece of history that i put my stamp dot is still being used in a ripple effect on the people said sing and never joggers and stuff. So yeah i love that man. I mean you even had run the jewels on their. Yeah they feel like they would. I mean now obviously they're like in another dimension but even then i feel like that was sort of out there. Yeah so funny. You said that i was. I was thinking about the other day. Like i did. A remix run the jewels and there. Were like yeah. We'll do vocals on your album. So they did vocal so you got. Up has run the jewels. Little john like it's a big fucking. Ep hindsight's man. So i mean. We'll john we mentioned earlier to. You're talking about that cronk energy. He's somebody who i think. May i've been trying to get him on this podcast for the longest time. I gotta do a bit. you know. he's someone where you could tell and you know. Maybe it's because he started opposite. Dj tubing you can just tell like he understood instinctively kind of what the the energy of this this edm shit was and he almost immediately. He was like oh. I got something for this. Yeah yeah i think he understood it because he's institute to like maybe maybe it was a subconscious thing but like that cronk dirty south energy is what we were doing in. These songs retook the drowns in the idea the melodies of the actual southern the southern trap shit in this space and to him whether you thought about it or not whatever i just feel like it will probably felt natural. It wasn't like it was his big room. House thing is like it felt familiar but new. Yeah yeah. I think that's right. And you know we start off talking about songs like mosh pit that have this energy without sort of having like a traditional idiom structure build up. Drop that kind of thing. I mean look at look at little. John's early shit even before any of this like osher. Yeah you drop that. The crowd loses their fucking mines. All what is what is that. It's it's eight oh eight. It's like a high since clar- like you know that to me that's likes. There's no right formula to do it. And in fact you can make people go crazy with almost nothing if you're doing it right and their sidetrack but on topic but i always liked the some of those earlier. Mike will songs that were like dance. Or whatever or even lie the like boorda or whatever like both of the songs are very subtle and melodic and you can play them at your house and just hang out with your girl. Whatever if you play them at a festival they have a hold of energy to them to so really bands. Megadeath did the whole crowd but like it also has a good chil- zaid to like music. I would love to make that like thing that works both in the club but also could be played at home in like have different energies. Dude i that's i'm glad we got to this point because i think this is what we've been talking about the whole time without knowing it. I think that's what we need to get back to his. Is that kind of energy. Like i have i have. I don't know if you're like this. There's certain moments for me the just randomly crystallized in my head and just like they just pop into my head every once in just like play on a loop in one of those is when early lost two point. Oh days you came through a design. You are still a duo at josh. You guys came through dc and you played at u street music hall r.i.p to use music musical by the way and i think it was like the first time you are really going on tour as like trap foster davis and i remember it was just strobe lights like you were talking about earlier. Nothing else and i remember you. Drop bands will make them dance and the reaction. The crowd had was pandemonium. The crazier than the wildest edm abd-rabbo i've ever said people screaming. Every word of it like it was the most insane heavy metal side like open. I don't know why. I think about it every once in a while like i still. I'm right there. And it's that kind of energy for an unexpected song. You know what i mean. It bike like we know how to make an expected banger. You know what i mean. But i think the secret sauce what what makes me excited to keep doing it. It's like well. How can i do this in a weird way in a way. People aren't gonna expect. How can i surprise fall. I don't know. I wish i knew that secret formula men. It's a sledge that might will as the do the does that like even black beetles. For like i mean i saw was it definitely was probably the little like the little dance thing that they had that but like even that songs. It's this weird little malamute dreary little melody but then it gets so lit when the song drops and actually the be comes in. So maybe that's all it is is the antithesis the opposite the energy exchange. I don't know like yeah. Yeah it's something many can be so many things to i think that's for any producers out there like don't don't limit yourself in terms of like well if i wanna make a song makes people go crazy. I wanna make banger. Don't limit itself to be like well if it's going to be a banger. It has to have x. y. and z. Four elements you now. Because you never you never know how it can go like the will maker dance. It's so slow and like the you know it's not like banging club drums either. It's like it's an awkward song to drop in a sat almost and yet somehow adenoma an. It's it's wild. I don't get it. And that's that maybe to talk exhibited young producers do like. Maybe there's something about the it's like we we creating. You're making a dub step song. Don't reach the upset. Three sets are in the sense. Used for doug stoppage. Go find something else. Use a piano like go find a sound if you wouldn't normally using the genre working in and try to sit in there and maybe that's the thing it's maybe it's more about the energy of of what you're creating than the actual sounds like aggressiveness of sounds. I always try to do that. What i'm looking for samples or i'm like Going to presets things like that. I go to all these weird reset packs in these areas. That i wouldn't normally go to and if you sit this weird genre in another jarman something. New jobs created. There can be at energies of apps. Do that. It's not like wouldn't expect. Yeah yeah i i love. We're talking about this man. Because i think especially for younger artists they can be like when you start off. You wanna make the music that the people you you listen to make credit. You're like oh. I wanna make. I wanna make the foster dhamma song. I want to make this girl x song. I wanna make shit like this because it makes me feel so strongly but i think as you get further into it you realize that like well. What if i tried to make the flash. Tom saga if i tried to make the score like song but i changed. You know this one element of it. Sometimes that's all it is just chain swap. Out the the snared rob you know yeah unlivable thing the whole idea on its head. The i fully agree with that julia. Get inspired by something in the. Yeah put your own twist underfoot another element like do like strokes also might lij owned the now you might like him holler something. Yeah good call. Yeah like some indie banners. Take the tame. Impala sim sounds that are like dreamy. Or whatever bad those drums and you might create like a new sub genre. Something but experimentation is the best. But i feel like saying so time. It's it's easy to stay in this box boxes day. Okay well this is working. This works at a festival. Let me stay with that. If you take these other elements take something that works. But then take something else to like ben wooded that is increase the new. Maybe yeah man. It's just i dunno. I think anyone listening to us. Doesn't that sound more fun to like guy. Something new and experiment you know. It's i get it but like there's a certain satisfaction to just being like this shit is hard and i figured it out and like okay now like my music is maybe starting to sound sonically on the level of these view. I listened to but once you get there man like have fun with it. That's all i can really say man. There's so much music that comes out. now it's well made but just like this doesn't sound like everyone was having fun when they made it you know. I know what she wore following a formula. Yeah no i. I know exactly what you as. Yeah all. this is dough but there's still missing some sort of a little bit of soul. Whatever that it that includes. I completely agree man. Well look i think While we been while we've been talking. I could talk to you forever man. I'm glad we're doing this. But i think some people have been submitting questions for us to answer. Shout out to everybody who's been hanging out with us. I saw four color. Zach was in here jubilee was in here. Yeah man trip trap with all you guys man i love all y'all let's Let's see what questions we gas. Oh okay well starting off. This one is actually a good question. Because i think it'll sort of talk to where your head is at now what you're thinking about. This is a this trip trap from l. a. Do you know trip trap. Kurt adults there. I'll send you some of their music man. You'd really be into it. They they're making some really good shit right now. It's kinda like. I hope they don't get mad at me if i mischaracterize. But it's kinda back to the roots like Like jungle territory. Cold like we whack can like It's really really old. Gte stuff it's really dope. I'll say some of their stop but Yeah trip drop is asking a dis- floss heavy plans for starting a record label. I actually have a record. label Called high death us what. I need to be reinstated. Because i took a break. The record label took a break. So i'll probably be doing it here soon. Are bringing it back after the shows and stuff on so check it out high def sore or five releases right now. One of those four colors act in his tucson rue des zach. Still here by the way. What up. zach. What does that was pop man. Have you watched. Have you watched any zacks streams in the last guy. Yeah yeah my did. Yeah he definitely did it right. There's a it was funny when people when when streaming dj sets came out a lot of people are just trying to do what they did it shows on streamed and lost a loses a little bit of energy zach took it to a whole new level created a new lane for that and i i love it. I love watching a show. You want me to be on it a few times. Zack yes zach. I'm a. i'm a text you later. Because i've been thinking about you. Allow man zacks show to me. Zacks streams is like. It's kinda actually what you you and i have been talking about. Curt is like watching it. I'm like oh this is why this is fun. This is what i what i do like. It's just pure like creativity and enjoy. I love it so much man looking looking at these other questions. eric I gotta ask this one because eric is for minneapolis. Which is where. I was born and raised where we kind of talked about. He's asking about like what kind of shows do you want to do after the break. We talked about that a little bit. But he's also asking so he says one of the things that drew me to the early trap seeing with how fun and cheeky and over the top and kinda ridiculous it was and he was he's asking. Do you think like the base music scene has gotten serious quote unquote over the last few years does then he says. Does it even make sense to go back to simpler times. I don't know what this means that the mad. But i think we get the idea of sort of like. They're you know it's kind of what we were talking about. There's like a freedom of creativity to those early days that maybe is kind of gone. And how do we bring that back. Yeah yeah and so stanza and a serious thing like what. I was a teenager. I was really into drum and bass and jungle and that same thing happened with that at the time it was like so dr. Do mixing hip hop with like as sounds was doing all this cool stuff and then it got really super sound design was like trying to flex how good their drum sounded at maximal things were and got way too seriously got way to grow and it kind of like pushed pushed the genre like underground in forced away a lot of the soul of what it was and i saw him saying the basie and got a little serious. I could feel that a little bit. Like i think it's like how can we have the biggest eighty awaits in the craziest sound design and in like the weirdest downing drops and i think it got to the split where it is pushing people away. It was when it initially came out the base trap leading came out. It was all is sounded. Just like hip hop treadmills would just different cities and then it involved in with more sound designer and got a little crazier so that i think it is a little more serious or it's a little more like mathematical and head to the second question. I think it can go back to savoy times. I think we can just do that. Just start to create that that vibe and come back to regional energy and we can be the ones that define it. Yeah yeah there you go. I love the you said that because i think what's cool about you know the you. I think a lot of people listening to us. You'd think we have kind of negative view of like how it's changed over time but it's me what's cool about how it changed at the time or overtime was dead yet but it got heavier and crazier and wilder and then it kinda split off and that's its own thing now and that's like its own community and its own ideas and that's just all off of something that started is the simple funding but that doesn't mean the simple fun thing has to go away or they went anywhere at all right. It's just more ideas more creativity and the same wins like. You're saying so many different as it went to the dignity and festival stuff. It made flu future based time to stop at made like all of these different sayings that came from. I think it's we just people chose her late with it. But there's a way to kind of bring it all back. I did notice i do. I do play odd trip travel to the top song in my say i actually opened my set with a widened. No i'm sorry sorry over. I opened my several the ride to the little driving here in la show did your trump. No i mean come on man. We don't we don't know fucking names of artists of any songs we play. Let's be works. We know it. But like that. In the moment i don't know it also for me. It's like a vibe. I'll go through all the songs. And i'm just like this is not this is not this is donated. I've put it into the like at the time. I don't remember tj it. I'm like okay. I'm gonna play some so yup of course Okay why have to. This is ridiculous. But i have to ask this because i think a bunch of people were commenting on it throughout this conversation. So ryan from london. Aka diane rayvey aka the most amazing screen name ever whippet and sixty nine asks. Where did you get that shirt. And i take a bunch of other people also made comments about that shirt which is amazing. I'm a big alley express shopper. I i love getting bootleg. Time's fake rolexes. Also bootlegs staff. This is ali express divided alex's pets for ten bucks big big fan of all the express. So i don't know what it's faulds maybe search bandanna ensure analogy expensive founded though love. It does actually good ryan's asking another question. And i wanted to talk about this to talk about crowd control. And he says it's the greatest traps on of all time Talk about collaborating with with. Dj slink and any memories of slink. And i remember that show. I was talking about. He was on tour with you. Guys talk about minute. Yes that saw. that was. Don't actually choose songs. Who need that test. We actually made us in slink and then we did. A nobody toured were together. And he's like the original dirty jersey do that he was like doing the original funders in the original joseph up sound and time. We had a little sin patched it was like from nexus is. I forgot what it is. But it's in the next hard style resets. If you re affects nexus it's like one of the third presets a no Does that lead be as we did that. And i think there was like some trap. Drums and senator him and then slink. Put all the like the. Can you dig. And all of the things from a warriors soundtrack on it. He put a little vocals on their chopped. It up and it was still. That was another little. Up that just happened like super-quick sleep so much talent man. He's such a student then. Best man another person who. I've been trying for so long to get on the podcast real and you gotta get nine drought. I love him so much. Like one of my favorite people but the dude was as that that song is like such a medium trump song to and it was one of these ones that was minimal. You're saying has a big sound to do. And like i still play to myself still holds up like back tobacco crazy. New union track sounds it has such energy in banks still and you talk about those pre drop vocals. They get used all the time. There's another run until two we under station. I didn't realize that you are responsible for probably wet like five out of the ten most year year drought boko own. Everybody's looking jump. But that's that's not me martin garrick or something he can take yup yup yup. But it's not about identity is pretty good couple more and we'll get you out of here Oh yeah so. So zach fano from seattle. Shoutout i guy asking. In what ways do you geek out on new technology in your production. and how. How does that inspire you and change the way you work in what ways. It's like every time. I hit writer's block i do that. I'll go to different websites and find like new plug ins. I definitely look for things that make my creative process zere salon whether it's a like a loop browsing software or ai. He or even like a new sense. I'm always list looking for new stuff. Because that those new sounds those new ways of thinking inspired like wherever i hit writer's block and i'm doing things the same way it's hard to get out of but if i find something new are play with something new that almost makes me create something new by playing with the moves that make sense this way to just. I'm making music. I'm doing things. But i'm not just okay. I'm gonna make a song today. So i'm going to play around with this new thing. Oh shit. I made a new sound and you saw. I found something different. So i use it. That's my biggest things. Getting writer's block always getting a new plug in a new piece of software sold to explore. Oh yeah and you're always sending me new stuff and you know saying oh this new thing just came out like i feel like that's part of the the fun for you. Right is sort of staying on top of that space. Like what are people doing. What are what are people experimenting on. I mean we're you for awhile even working with people like designing plug ins there. Yeah that's always either of advising or you don't working companies like i'm always trying to always always trying to have the sayings iraq whether that's early early splice that you bought me up on. Thank you. Were working with them in some of the things that they've done and then whether it's plugging all signs or a talking designer to like i'll go talk to someone in my yard love to beta test. Or how am i given feedback before even able to give back to and like. I tried to do that for everything. I i don't really like to be inserted the scenes and be like i did this. I did that but like i'm definitely behind the scenes affecting software technology in a way the people might not know that i had handed it so now. That's that's beautiful man. And those are the kind of things i mean. Do you feel that kind of satisfaction like say we talked about this in a couple of different aspects like yordan whether it's like working on technology behind the scenes whether it's these predrag vocals that are going to get used for the next decade all that kind of stuff like is that a good feeling like outsiders recognition for you as floss for dom as the artist. Is it a different kind of satisfaction. Does that like how does that feel compared to like people you know liking the artists project lagging music. It's weird because it doesn't get as much shiner. Whatever innocent sledge. I don't like whether it's g. I loved his doing. I love being a part of it. I'm always. I'm always trying to do something different in next level in whenever i do a lot of that stuff but almost gets pushed down. It doesn't help the loss brand as much as like a new song or playing festival. What was like how push it forward. A lot of these other technology things and whatever. It doesn't really help propel me in a way. I like to g stuff. I remember when i started posting on my instagram. a lot of people are doing. Hey comments unfollowing me and it was so noone forward that they didn't understand it so they like just like fucking dude. He's not making music but i to me. I was doing something. I loved and i was doing something that inspired me and i was doing something pushed culture forwards but whenever i do this stuff it can almost be a hindrance to me and my career which is so weird even losses for mersch we do tons like i all the merge for us and i remember doing dad hats before people are rocking deadheads. All little hats that our logo on it. It's almost like why do you live the stupid hats. And no one's going to have to wear those deadheads or whatever whatever and then also six later. Everybody's doing dad hats but people were unfollowing us not supporting does vision that we had so i don't know it to me it. It pains me. Because it's something i love to do and i wish that my fans and the people that supported me would see that too but i don't know in hindsight i still feel good about it because i am doing truly what i feel right at the time. It just doesn't. It is reflected in the numbers. I guess yeah. And i mean doesn't it i feel like there's a tale to it though like a longer tail right is that people don't understand it in the moment but i feel like people look back and are able to give that kind of credit. You know maybe anyway like you're saying was pre-draft of data the moment those didn't feel right but yeah but people are still losing them so who knows. Maybe that's it. Maybe it's a early adopter long-term feeling yeah. Let me to makes me think about legacy. To right. Like is is legacy i go back and forth about. This is legacy something you'd think about and is it something you care about no in a way but i also i'm kinda the same to be honest to me. It is thinking about legacy. And like i want to leave my legacy. But i'm thinking of in the sense of like was really influenced by beastie boys fat boy aslan whatever chemical brothers things like that they influence me away to do what i do in loss especially if they had a record label they were forward and the music videos of fashion who they were people so they influence me to be that i am. I'm able to do take what they've taught me incense put it into what i d. Mix it up. Give that to the next generation. And then i can be like talk to upcoming producer. Dude original dawn made me wanna stop making step nine trump in other this big trap artis so the legacy for me is living on through another artist in the sound is a loss. Yeah had it. But i took the people that influenced the next generation. And that's where my legacy jerry out. I could hear it in the music that people make and in insult. I put it in culture time. I guess yeah man. That's like a different kind of satisfaction. I feel like because even to take your example of like the beastie boys. I'm sure when they were you know. Early beastie boys days dislike doing whatever they wanted to do and doing this and stuff that we look back and we're like oh that was legendary the time they weren't thinking about We're going to inspire kurt to eight ten fifty years down the road right and so you never know how these ripples are going to play out and that me is one of the most fun thing is looking at a career like yours is there are all these little ripples you can see areas unexpected places and i think the more were able to keep following the fun of it you know. That's the only way it's going to be successful in the long term. And that's what beastie boys did at least for mouthing like they were just doing whatever it was fun to them and whatever may done lashed and macapa. Time like yeah. That's kind of what. I did it back to you personally bike. I think we're living in a narrow like instant gratification interesting feedback. the beastie. Boys didn't have social media. They couldn't put out something instantly. Be critiqued only be looked at. I think we have that. We put something up social media. Jin's lawrence's in a way to to neither hinder us or paralyze us our next news. And that's that's social media crowd instant feedback and be like the death of the happiness of the fun because it's just like an instant critique each yeah when you see different artists go through it all the time right. I mean it's so many people we know have gone back and forth with all of his stuff even just the other day. I remember stu sudden-death such a good and he was talking about he's been doing these like void shows where he's like. I don't know if you've seen the video he's dressing up. He puts like a animal skull on his face. It's like a whole like it's like a theatrical production. there's like a lot of moving pieces. He is like movie. I don't know they all send you videos. I can't even describe it but it's wild and it's very dark imagery and he. He just posted the other day he was like. I'm so frustrated with people. Faking that me doing this. Is you know satanic and that it's like some cult thing where he's just like these are just like i'm just having fun with my friends. Megan cool ideas. But you could tell them like that feedback was kinda getting to him to something that to me i saw has like this is hilarious. It's so fun it's just like you could tell again. This is my favorite thing you can tell how much fun he's having. And then that back. I think stopped some fun. It is when the the critique is the death of happiness men. And that's well you've been saying this whole time in the same thing with social media to try to do something it gets just can. Can you get killed before. It even goes legs and i think it takes us as people to not be affected by all that stuff. That's what it is but we're artists. Were so fucking sensitive that like any of these little things like messes up. So yeah yeah. It's a funny thing man. I don't know we'll figure this shit out to wrap it up. I want to just do do a fun. Memories rabbit up on a light note because one thing. I was trying to think about like what happened. We talked about on his guest already and wondering. I don't think we ever talked about this but it just made me happy to to take about was when When you were performing at coachella you brought out soldier boy. This is where we're just derailing this conversation right now but it may be i don. I laughed it was so it was also so perfect. And i was like. That's the best idea ever to bring out soldier. Boy another person who is a big encapsulates the spirit of what. We've been talking about this time of dislikes unbelievable energy. But you don't even really know why what was that like i mean. Did you actually talk to him. Do you spend much time with him at all. Yeah yeah and so a couple of the day in you talked about it right then. But i i gotta ask if you times like interviews or even just people will ask what you steered animal. I always say soldier boy has like lake. He's always not giving up sock. It seems like he'll go through different phases of the times. Just be like whatever. But he did always doesn't get him and he's like this is ole. He has his own video game system. He made his hover boards. Whatever so that was the thing at the time to tell all about bringing out of gas you bring out a guest guest and we wanted to bring out and we just joe outsold you like like. And this was before he was like really popping again and yet we brought them out and yeah we we got to meet him and the funny thing is she was doing. These like blogs at the time is against weekly sold avoid blogs and so he put out a log and he was like an. It's him narrating. So it's like it'll be hidden narrating blogs and it's like man. I never thought the day. I will play her chill but then i played coachella and like he comes out he films. Playing whatever doesn't mention us once doesn't talk about it. He's like man who was so dope playing cello. Belco boggled had video mentioned you and all. Oh it was. It wasn't about us. He didn't really care about us. Just playing chiller and whatever it is amazing. It was an amazing moment and i'm so happy during and then he is a very here. He came and being and my spirit animal. Did you even talk to him. And all in that performance was there any like preparation of like. Here's our we'll do it what he wanted to play and he didn't do. He did want to be my guy but he didn't want to do. I think it was so he was like no. It's not only do that so we did a turn my swag on and we did like two other songs and Yeah real news. Talk to him to admit and he just chilled and i remember. He stole my girl at the time her on out of the trailer henderson. Who was crew will yours gable at. Soho took it. So that was her muscle jerusalem. We didn't share. I would love to do a song within. I still think it'd be like he's one of those people like juicy. J like broncos locker like little. John who's just like has this energy you can channel. In that moment he can get a classic sponsor. Yeah one hundred percent. I mean wocka flock to talk about him in the past. That's another one right where you can just tell instinctively. Here's like i know what's happening here. I know what this needs. What i can bring to this. Yeah that's already set right into the em any Is energy is meant for it. Yeah man what was it Just 'cause we're about him. There was a period of time short period of time. But i don't know if everybody remembers when this was plastered. Imus was still a duo. But josh had had a kid. So you more or less replaced josh with waka. Flock us for a door. Just you and waka touring kind of adds flavor dobbins. What was that like. That was though crazy yet. Josh the kid so he took a summer off. And so i had to keep doing the show solo and walk. It came out your place in. He's got such a crazy energy and it's funny because waga pockets like this giant human being and he acts like a fifteen year old. He's like this giant human being. That feels like a little kid. His energy as there he liked he would go out in the crowd after the show. Walk around and hang out with people. Energy is just like he loves the people crowd and loves that and so yeah we toured. I remember. I had the most hip hop moment of my career with him. We're we've played some show like arizona or like tallahassee or something and he's like yo we're going to the club and so i went to the strip club wocka flock. I was the only white dude. Mr club and i was like having my ultimate hip hop moment. I'm smoking blunts with strippers in the club. Like i'm it. I was like the most hip hop moment of mechanism. That's so incredible. Man amazing person like he's actually really really down to earth to like yes. It was a school. Do a whole tour within whatever you chew with someone you get really close to them and like everyone handles vision cool. Yeah now. that's i those kind of moments man and the people we meet along the way to. We haven't talked so much about that. But i mean it's it's those connection that's what makes it worthwhile. That's what you look back on and think about in a significant way. Right is the experience you had with the people. It's not easy accomplishment so much now let's so true action is like i do remember a lot of those moments. The people on stewart like i've toured with ahead. We always like reminisce about those times. And mike i was talking to we before and we took on his first talks slushy and out during that tour. They're both these young teenage kids. We've been the funny thing is those same pellegrino's with foil tops. Computer foil walk avoid. Yeah so we play the show. We come back out to the trailer. Stacked up was like six stacked up guys. I'm so drone great now. This is like seventeen year old within. I'm so great guys like were you drinking they points all these pellegrino's drag will do. Does it just like sugary soda water anyway. That's it was sugar high. You gotta sugar high. He was drunk. That's so those moments are really make like the shows of course are amazing and they have their their their energy in their own memory but these funny experiences with our friends. Just like those are really cherish. And i'm excited to get back to that. When i say again announce serious like like you and i have some of the best memories alike whether it is in chicago random. We see each other's australia wherever we've always had amazing fun time. I hope that we can continue to do that. Man percents man. I mean i. I've told you this before man. But i i liked. I'm trying to be more conscious about telling people like yet. You i really do love you man. And i don't think i don't know if i'd still be here doing this in the same way that it wasn't for us like checking in on each other now and then and and having this kind of memories i don't know if i'd still be doing it in the same way man rail so i i gotta lotta love for you by that feeling is mutual. Surreal for now. Man i'm gonna. I'm gonna keep hanging out with chat for a little bit. We're gonna listen to to floss dominates tunes and I'll let you get out of here. Buddy. thank you for doing this man. Willie thank you check in with snow. Good man i love you man. I'll talk to you soon for show. I'm in love you bye.

willie joy nfc mr roger Mostert sanger banger damas edna trapper cedric bay mister rogers kurt mike heavier cova florida Nfc willie stackhouse lincoln foster confusion
217: Marshall Jefferson

Back To Back

1:18:31 hr | 3 months ago

217: Marshall Jefferson

"So this is back backbackers. This is willie joy. Welcome to the show. This is back to back. This is my podcast. How are you how you feel and how you doing. How's your weekend. How's your your week going. I mean it's only tuesday. So i guess. How is your your monday Guys look it's all right we don't gotta get into the details. I hope you're doing well. It's great to be back with you. Great show for you today crazy show for you today person. I never really thought i would be talking to marshall. Jefferson is on the show today. And look sometimes i. I give the long winded intro. I talk about what's going on in my own life. That's not important when you're talking to somebody like marshal jefferson one of the pioneers one of the founding fathers of house music. And i don't care who you are if you love dance music which i assume you do. Because you're listening to this podcast. Who'd be very weird if you didn't like dance music but you listen to this podcast and never even thought about that. Is there anyone out there. Listening to this podcast. Who doesn't like dance music. And if so why are you listening to this podcast right. In lemme know. Look all right. We're getting off track already. Marshall jefferson is on the show I'm extremely excited for this. I was extremely excited to talk to him. Marshall jefferson the man behind the first the very first house music anthem and that is official because he put it in the title. The man behind. Move your body the house music anthem. He's on the show marshall. Jefferson's latest release is called family featuring el-bugi it's our right now he made that with who It's not a joke not asking you. Who but the artist who w h zero and he just dropped that a couple months ago. It's out right now and if you go to the description of this episode there's going to be a link where you can follow marshall jefferson get all the new music keep up today with what he's doing because even though he is a living legend the man is busy and he never really stopped touring for thirty five years straight pumping out tunes. Not only the man behind move your body. Which by the way was the first house song to use pianos. Think about that thing about a concept like that. Pianos in house music. That's like that's peanut. Butter and jelly in two thousand twenty. One right like that's obvious thing. He was the first person ever do it and to hear him. Tell the story You know people were confused it. I look somebody's gotta be first. Somebody's got to be the pioneer and Every once in a while you get to talk to him. That's what this is not to mention. He pioneered acid house. A little thing called acid house you ever heard about that. We'll keep listening. You're going to hear the story of How some of that got started as well and when you do go to that lincoln the description to follow marshall jefferson. You're also can see a few more links Guys this show backed back the one. You're listening to right now. This gets recorded live every single week on twitch and every single week it's growing and i want you yes you the person hearing my voice to come be a part of it. Every monday and wednesday. I am live on twitch recording these episodes you can come in watch. These conversations happen live and better than that. You can come participate. It's been great having everybody in the chat. Seeing your comments answering your questions you can submit questions to the artists. I'm talking to and we will answer them. It's a beautiful thing. The show is made better by your presence so come join us over on. Twitch link is in the description also last lincoln the description. It's the back-back discord guys. The bag discord. I mean do. I even really need to tell you at this point. It's it's the coolest community on the internet. I i'm pretty sure you're aware of that if you've listened to this show already before but Look i. I don't know what i'm saying as it's been a long day but the back. Toback discord is an amazing community of people. If you're a music producer you can come share what you're working on. Get some feedback meet some like minded producers. I'm in there all the time. Come talk to me. Come tell me who you'd like to see. Be a guest on the show. Get notified anytime i am doing. These live interviews and you can come be a part of them. It's a beautiful thing. Come join the discord come follow me on twitch and for right now today. Today is all about marshall jefferson. I caught up with him when he was in his studio in new jersey and not unlike some other legends. I've had on this show. It was hard to know where to even start with a career like his with all of his accomplishments with so many decades of experience in the music industry. But i think we did pretty good guys. I think we had a great time. I know i did. He has some incredible stories Some incredible perspective that The perspective i kind of didn't know i needed to hear but i walked away from it feeling really good and i hope it does the same for you. I hope you enjoy it so with that said. I hope you're doing well out there. I hope life is going good. I hope you're happy and healthy. And whatever you're working on whatever goals you're trying to achieve as always. I'm sending you that positive energy that encouragement go out there. Go get it put in the work. I say this. And i mean because sometimes we all need to hear these things right. We got your back over here at back to. I mean it's in the name of the show. So look i love all you guys enjoy this episode. I hope you enjoy it. Just as much as i did and i think you will. Let's do it right now. This is me and marshall jefferson back-to-back lesko. It's hard to even to for me to know where to start talking to you so many we could talk about but i feel like we should start by talking about what's going on right now. Where am i talking to you from. Are you in chicago right now. I'm in new jersey right now. Is that is that your your studio spot there. Is that where you usually work out of so to give you a little context. I kind of came up in chicago professionally as dj. That's where like all my formative years were and place to start is a great place to start. I mean it's for for house music. It's it's literally the start right. And i i mean i'd love to talk to you about all of that where you born and raised in chicago on raised chicago man. So what was it like. I mean let's just jump into it like back in the day in chicago. Say say you're a kid say you know whatever age this comes to you like what are some of your first musical memories doesn't even have to be you performing or anything but just music around you. If it's something played in the home or something your friends or siblings are playing wanna save. I'll say okay Seeing the beatles on the answer of in show her yeah so earliest earliest you know then. I got into like a monkey's parents. Rita franklin lot of motown stuff reed the ranking supremes temptations. Alaba stuff all day long. I mean that ed sullivan moment with the beatles. That's such a You hear that referenced is such an iconic thing. I do remember actually seeing it happen live. Were people freaking out. I mean the crowd or people watch it on tv. Well people on tv. The girls were screaming and stuff. You know like at home You know we were just watching. It likes both literally the whole country washed it. You know the parents then. I don't think the parents thought too much they. They didn't run out. And buy you beatles records but sure yeah. It's always just interesting for me to try to think back to those moments. We look back at and say that was a historic moment. But it's always. I always wonder what it felt like at the time. You know what. I'm in five years old so all beta historic significance asking me. Yeah i think. That's that's understandable. Be completely different. This historic Again i was only five years old. Of course of course. Well what about when when you got a little older you know what about when you're you're going into maybe you're you're middle school years getting to be a teenager that sort of thing. What's what do you remember like the first thing that really caught your ear and really made you like maybe changed your brain or just made you realize that maybe music with something that spoke to you stronger than some other people dislike music. I guess but I had a paper route in early age. No about seven eight years old than star rectors until sixty nine on i for israel's liz To allow liked to cover and You know what that was washing. The monkeys mana splits the partridge family Lot of different lots of different day. Yeah so i mean that's this is another question right. I i was talking to someone earlier today about how you know now. We talk about house music as this institution as this timeless thing but again it's interesting to think about a time before house music right and so i'm kinda curious you know. I look at you as one of the founding fathers of house music and for you did the idea of house music exist when you were a kid like if if someone said house music what were they talking about. I didn't know what they were talking about. Until the agency after all Went to the music bucks. Ron hardy play their house. They will house parties going on. But i didn't think about how i went to the music bucks and for the people who don't know. What was the music box was a big room. One dim light bulb at The sound system. I ever heard in my life. Sounds great and they played dance music All come on. Hardy played all house stuff you know. Just everything like plays. Frankie goes hollywood and he will play disco and he will play. I new york stopping new york and Uja and italy every day Sweet dreams of sweet dreams by eurythmics replay. That and and the people freak out. Wow it's so interesting to think about with dj nowadays. You know it's very you play one genre and you get identified. What'd you say this very formatting we saw ourselves as the thing is back in the day you had everything one day war and That was that was the Thousand thing chicago did better than Any any other place in the world as far as a black people you have five thousand black people on a dance floor listening and and they will be jamming a rock lobster bother beat fifty you mile sleepless in seven of size. It was like a different. It was a different way So yeah i'm curious. What kind of crowds would would go out to these early clubs the same ones. You're going out to to have these sort of formative experiences. Well was most is mostly black proud. You know people really wanted to party and about house. Parties were Chicago had a lot of violence on the south Ever since the early seventies what happened was chicago. Law enforcement decided eradicate all gang leadership. And what happened was used to be. You would have a gang leader oversee the entire neighborhood ride. After they arrive. The gang leaders show is splintered off into you would have different gang on every block. And that's you know that's why you know you walk on the next block and you just shot at And that's the same situation. They've never solved. I i was gonna say yeah. It's even just from living there in the two thousands. I mean i you would see that. Yeah you that's best buy rap too because in chicago. Blacks on the south side hated route. They don't don't want any parcel of bring out. Yeah oh wow yeah. Yeah for a long. Long time of blacks couldn't stand up. They wouldn't have to around part because you know bring out against the violence but in new york the gangs were throwing the parties you know. So so if If say the zulus dura party and You decided to buy any funny business. They taken into back in your friends. See you anymore so moving away. Different blood parties were safe in while in chicago. Then danger will rob you know so we can. We can do that but what we did. Do we came up with house. Music Bought by accident house was a will. The warehouse was well-known. Gay clue right so we say house party the geza so i am going in there. You know you know they. They played a lot of european stuff. It wasn't fun and the gangsters likes funk and rap you know so back then we made it a point at house parties not to play funk and route because would bring out the gangster gangster music all a little bit. Yeah so it was a it was complete completely against the bottom. That's why you have like chills if you take naked is fifty thousand black black people there and you don't even need security. Just i've as you know is not the kind of and bess. How a call. It was a safe park. you know best. What made it popular. You worry about guns by there. Were no pad doused. Don't know nothing. You just walk in and dance right. Yeah oh wow is you. If you go to a regular party you know you know they. They bashing value search. May sometimes you have to go through a metal detector and and all of that you know going through all your stuff and they got the room bouncers stuff you know. That was a regular party. We like a house party. No is worried about security device thinking about and it's been like that thirty eight years now so the best for chicago. Yeah it's fascinating man. And i have to think. Correct me if i'm wrong but if it was kind of the the safe way to party because i think a lot of times usually if young kids are running off to clubs their parents are going to have something to say about that how how did the. How did your parents feel about that. Did they see it as kind of like. Actually this it's good. He's got something to do that safe. Well i always been. I'd always had a job. So you know. I couldn't wait to move out of the by by the time of us came round. I was already working. Parents didn't have anything to say there are. There are like a lot of younger people that you know that brought them out of their windows to go party at the music. That wasn't me. Was it an all ages club. Seem like who some younger people up in there. All kinds of people think everybody incredible. And so you said you would go there to see ron hardy deejay did that give you the idea. Was that sort of what planted the seed that maybe this was something you wanted to get involved with. No no what planning to seeing was jesse saunders coming out with record on and all how was in britain's and it was all it Jesse jesse jones who was later massive c. J. it set aside a section jesse saunders right so as hot hot hot you know. They didn't have like auditions. Based jesse's words why i took the regular home. So what do you know what it was so symbol and it sound like something. I could make myself right there. Were there were records. They will consider house before that like away was all that stuff was too good. You know saunas on and on. I say I can do this. Series is started the whole thing. Dj as the artist. Ripe orlando dj. You know these people are deejays right and all the you know it it just in like a light bulb went off. In the whole city started making music house means dance music. You know like And and people never would have thought about baker record before i was you know it was the furnace for the same for my mind but that one record said on may musing myself you know i can i i can. Yes star star on. Started everything as far as concerned about wouldn't have heard that wreck probably still be working at a at a post because a lifetime job right. Of course. yeah. I so when i knew i was coming to talk to. I was reading some old interviews of yours. And i found one quote that i thought was really interesting. I think applies to this as you said something along the lines of You know chicago and the birth of house. Music showed non musicians that they could make music to as what it did. That was at one song. Jesse saunders on law in you know late you know these days you know a lot of people very protective of their legacy and you know. I'll try to explain. Have to be like that us. You know that wreck. Estar york wrist on microsoft's start everybody's every single dj an artist right now owes debt of gratitude. Jesse saunders so do all this. Dj does dj culture. You know playing in other countries them all that ass because of jesse on does deed before that dj would've never thought it'd be an artist you had. You had to be a rapper or proper singer you know. Dj as the artists on. We didn't didn't exist back then. Yeah that i mean that's really fascinating. So you know somebody like iran hardy or or someone who is playing heavy in the clubs at that time. Was that you know. At that time. I mean was that sort of the the highest achievement. People were aware of you know for like if you wanted to be a dj. Was that kind of the. Was that success. I wanted to. Dj that kawasaki says will. It's very popular. But he wasn't rich right. We rich. That's a good goal. I had a different goal. If i i just wanted like records out but then i realized that i had you know if i wanted to really do them. All get everybody pay by right. So i calculated it all toss. Sas clip best. A certain amount of records. I'll be able to pay everybody this that. It was always the collective group. That's the philosophy. I've had my whole career. Everybody just paid you know everybody. Everybody has a just something out of it if if i bought. Oh no way of making money from the project. I won't do the project time because you do a song and nobody gets paid is sold destroy. you know. In my opinion. I mean yeah. You're getting no money. You get no recognition. you know. you don't get anything but everybody just pay that. That's that's good. That's everybody gets paid. everybody is played. So that's a that's richness. That's a lot better. So that's that's what i always try to do. Yeah well i mean. That's a great goal to have man. And i think especially for something like the music business which is still even twenty twenty one such a wild west kind of business. Wow west now than it was back in the day you must be. I couldn't make it. That's interesting. yeah because we're not. I started was a maximum of five hundred records. And we'd coming out. Yeah now there's a minimum a one hundred thousand residents coming out every week. It is out of writers. Have pizza last week's one. I could bad being with last month's four hundred thousand records. Yeah you're absolutely. I mean point taken that when you put it that way. It's pretty arguable. A single dj that will listen to one hundred thousand records and we made and you know even even if you don't sleep you know there's just too much music right. Yeah so a lot of great re gray sauza getting getting hurt. You know bagging day. I could make it on tallow loan but yep on completely unknown guy. I made a great record hit and it happened. Yeah you know so but now that can't happen. You have some kind of promotion you have. The has some kind of banking finance bank. But it's impossible now thousands of you. You gotta get loss of notable even just if you got no promotion. Known artists noam dj known producer known. Remixer over a year. yeah no. it's it's hard man. I mean. I talked to people on this podcast all the time about these kind of issues and you know i always get asked advice about. How do i get my music out there. That kind of thing and it's it's really hard because there is there isn't kind of a magic bullet answer for that anymore. And i mean it makes me wonder so you know you were talking about your early records that you are putting out and so i guess let's start with how you came to music production in the first place before you even started putting the music out. How did how did you decide what was the thought. Even that you wanted to to make this music yourself. Jessen saunas right there on call. I didn't know how i didn't know how exactly what was going to do it. But i knew i wanted to do it. When it's a deadly random on was a guitarist he needed a ride atar sin. I gave him o'brien guitar center. Route guitar salesman came on new thing. Yamaha two one is a sequencer. Sequence was net to man. This thing you've been played. moore's like stevie wonder even if you don't know how to play at all so i'm you know take this you and don't believe that bloom. Yeah i believed them right. I want to get one. How much is it he said of this. One is three thousand gov that much work postal as degraded credit law. Right on the spot like. Oh yeah so. He was giving you the whole sales pitch finance x one ready walkout asked city chiba board exotic. And no you need. A keyboard is sequences keyboards. If you don't have a keyboard to play won't hear anything. I need to keep walking spiderman. Wales got bro machine. No say in your meter shape too. I need a drama rummaging. Any no you need a mixer man. I'm a dj man. I got a mixture always all you need a recording mix by about jimmy mixed ends and all you need a recording mixed as makes right here. This boss makes off eight channel. Eight roma's saint thomas. all man. I can't do that on my timana. Boss makes a good salesman man. You know you you know what else you need. You need multi. Frankly quarter quotas again. Thank record so. I just ask import a one for two student. Harare man so i was able to recall right in. This is stuff about About a team module ride share and the last thing he was. You know this thing for a hundred fifty dollars. Call three zero three. I say as will make baseline Well that's why i want to. I wanna make baselines right so by the tv three. Oh three so take take home runs. When is enough can come over and and they made me feel like witches call man. I mean they talk about. Oh stu off. Don't don't even know how to play. May thought he got one over. Yeah man i wrote my first song two days later little bit. After that i had move your body out and being day started hiring t. war players in telling them to play piano like marshal jefferson. Wait that's that's crazy. How how long so you got all this equipment. You didn't know how to use it more or less. And how long did it take you before you made. Move your body on that equipment lower little over a year maybe less than a year. Ask crazy man for for not for starting at zero like that. That's crazy but see. It was a natural progression. I knew what i wanted to do. And how i wanted to do it right what i would do. I was not a musician by right. Got inspiration from the rock music. Our land sampling. Now limay me explain to say where. Where does the rock music come into the picture. Liz zeppelin's first album wasn't normal speed. I write every subsequent out that they sped up the tape to make themselves sound like better musicians faster than they actually. I notice the timber changes in drums and robert plant's voice right first album. Sounds like they're dragging. You quit you baby right second aisle liz upland to wahlberg plan voice job. Like at least yes. I couldn't duplicate that lot You know i mean you know uncoupling years in and stuff because it's too high but they sped up the tape right. I didn't know that i'm embarrassed. I didn't know this right. But i noticed i noticed from a very early age. I can't hear the timber change here. The i hear the drums. You sounded tighter. You know of. John bonham's drums and was a lot of as that i got i heard so with the yamaha. Waste one hour. Recourse stuff forty. Beats our minute speeded up to one. Twenty ranks like play like. Oh oh dum dum right. Must be twenty three rush. But i'm actually planning like. I can five-year-old sir do right and my friends was and you know like i must be a very nonthreatening person. You all instinct. They're smarter than being born to that. They started playing. We couldn't afford any keyboard players masol's they started playing stuff slow and speeding it up and and that's a lot us in chicago though because we had no bloodshed there. Were no major labels here. You know we weren't like new york where we could live where we did like a a twenty thousand dollar budget right you know bring in david cold. Replace them sessions. You know something like that. I know we you know we play a lot of the stuff ourselves so Yamaha wakes one of it had him. Oh karatas innovative stuff like it had does blanket note lengthening the java lengthened the mot- the every note in the song it will take thirty minutes to do. Because you know. I mean i could do instantly but back then. It would take thirty minutes for the process the whole song life. I mean i mean that's amazing man and it's it's crazy to hear you talk about that because that's i'll give people that piece of advice. Today i do that. You know with like midi notes. Because i'm the same. I'm not really a train piano player. And yeah you just slow it down play. You wanna play play. Whatever you wanna play edmilson on top of things and make courts you know and all kinds of stuff you can do. Right is worked for me. I mean i just feel like. I don't know i feel like i'm learning that you're actually the inventor of of a few different ideas electronic music that i didn't know that i mean you might have been the first person who ever did that. Which is i know so many people who do that now. Well i was telling people you know Chicago didn't take didn't take much convincing. No all my friends they they they did the same thing you know like i. I went over to england. I'll tell you know. Do some record alatel. You can play everything yourself you it. They go out and beijing board players anyway right. it was a new paradigm man. Was america up more confidence. I'm in isn't that always the story man for stupid. Exactly right like go to england. I can produce a singer and you know out. It'll be an eight hour session thing this part again. I need to sing this part again. The first person was second you know and and you know. They wanted to be perfect. You had to punch in and all that stuff right. Yeah hates the thing is. I'll i work with a lot of a man. Some of them do one tate. Mess up every no come out and at a greatest you heard your life and you just got to work with this man. Is confidence singing out again man. Perfect i definitely know some of those people too but it's a different vibe and it's all confidence but that explains a cop. Competence is very important of music. As you know as as long as you have the ideas in your head you can. You're gonna do something special. Yeah now that i think. That's that's the perfect way to put it so you know talking about these these early productions you made with all this confidence or a minute ago you were talking about. How if you made a song today. There'd be no way to even get it heard right. So how did you get it. Hurt back then. Then they will so easy. I mean literally made a song. Admiral ultra tuba music by. I've made a real real of lost control in minnesota song of pleasure sandwich day later chaim under you marburg will you be. I gave it a raw hardy. And broadly started plane. Loss control be like really gone crazy. Well jim that. That was the one i use thirteen three. Oh three okay. And there was nothing out there like that man. They'll success success of that starting. Given ron hardy more songs you know but one point i went to music. Play like a hour and a half of my music street. I was jaylen bag. The man. I had a lot of good stuff while ago. Dancers do that today. Yes sir and i mean is that the way that people would that the music would spread and people would find out about. New records was hearing well now. Version of virus. He move your body when i did that I gave wrong already. And it blew of within light to muslims says to light people in two months. It was all over the city chicago right. Ami was literally everywhere and You know larry levin got a copy in new york and started playing you know he. I believe he got his copybook. Frankie knuckles. Who was is really good friend. Sure be in this guy named l. Frago who was a dj. And i beat a gun right. Alfredo star planned out there. The next thing. I know england dot ahold of it and they were planted in england in iraq. Now course like a song as air got out of house music. Oh nyla with that house. Music by april may this heard of uk. Reporters came all came to chicago to find out of our house museum. They were interviewing all of us. You know right. You know be folly chiluba rocky larry all these people move. Your body wasn't even out all buydell yet. Wow so they you know they will follow me around every where it asking me all these questions and move. Your body wasn't even out amazing. Yeah what had happened was pay larry. Sherline press it up and he. He didn't feel it was strong enough. You the press up on mile label. So what happened was one night they would all you know. Reporters will follow. And larry about around. They're all writing and he took him to a close every time and both close out the half. Move your body every time they played it. You know ralph yeah goes crazy will bury nice days to see larry own the pressing plant right very nice day. He pressed up your body on craig's not label right. So yeah and and. That's how i got one flan and yeah i mean tracks at the time was was that the biggest label for house music at the time. Well there only two labels in town. There was a dj international tracks. Right and You know most of the people as chicago winter. One of those too late by starring das- mania tune to a lesser degree but main players were pricing dj nash. Yeah yeah i mean. I think people look back at those labels is such a again. We started off talking about how things that didn't seem historic at the time. You look back and it's like oh man that was that was a real movement right like so much that we know as dance music now started and just those few labels in chicago. Well de that was Is the historic to me. Yea bet it did. It had like. I was as much money so i feel his story house. They get like thirty years from now. I'm going to be in the and the house news house music hall of fame in the man. Let's get that confidence again. That's the confidence and i mean. Move your body obviously You know just what. Can you even say about a song like that. I mean it's influenced hundreds if not thousands of producers and songs and all over the map. Am i right that before. Move your body pianos in house. Music wasn't really a thing. No bid wasn't a thing in any any bears. Neither was the title aunt on the house. Music anthem right. So so you know after that you know now that song that ads you know the you know the when you have a big of a big song big You know our song. it's an anthem. They call it now right or navy for your body but Thousands gather so that does the terminology came from this song but the piano. Oh well. I got that from elton john from elton john man. You drop in led zeppelin. elton. John we'll see how that point. I'll tell the musicality remember this. You know i had a lot of you know. I had a lot of options. you know. Lie for seven ways to jack and You know by hercules. You know that was completely different. Everything else i've done it you know and and you know someday by cece rod a taste by low and and the rozier by chintzy. You know at that point. I was really a kind of feeling myself as being different and defining defining bizarre because everybody else would pretty much kind of small matting than sales. You know Yeah and i. I wanted everything to sound different. I wanted to expand the john. You know so. Everything didn't sound alike and You know. I think it will work. Well it works. Well y you know. But i think we're stagnated. We're very long island now. Yes that's true right. And i were talking. I was thinking about modern dance music right now. 'cause you know a question i get allowed or things. I talked to my friends about a lot. Is this idea of. How do you keep an art form. That's been around now for you know decades and decades. How do you keep it. Fresh and innovative without getting away from the core. Like what makes house house right. Well you expand you expand this genre but is just formatted now man but the one that cheeses is never really really become mainstream than the united states. You know more like an underground base. So you don't have like real hit records in in in house music like you have in pop using so that's one thing that's keeping it underground. As long as underground you don't get busted out that a lot of this hour house alike a lot of four minute right. As long as it's underground people go in and they danced and they don't know the format is set. You know they know so that as what keeps it alive in a state. That's what keeps the excitement in the states. Europe is a different story. A lot of it plays on a radio on regular rotation and so is held to a higher standard. You can't get away with being You know exactly what you bid space. Yeah yeah absolutely. And let's i wanna talk more about your time in the uk and a second. I got one more question about. Move your body before we move on from that. Which is i think this is another. you know. You mentioned that the lyrics. It's house music house. Music house music house. You kind of like pounded it into people's heads and one thing i love is house music that talks about house music like like that's almost become a giant genre or stylistic thing is a song the talks about house. Were you the first person to do that as well. Do you think it was the first one as far as i know to talk about house music so godfather of house music right and he did time to jack do times. Been time to jack. Right and But you know my my my song. Unlike gotta have house music with als it really droves in what was viewed day like i mean. I guess i was thinking located this. This is my rock round the clock. You know this. Yeah i love all your references mandates in all these inspirations. I wouldn't have thought you had you know what in let's see best best the thing right. We used to wash happy days and they will start it up. Start out One two three o'clock four nine rod going ryan nine eleven twelve rodwell rock around a rock aren't right right right. Yeah found out Around the clock was one of the biggest hits of all time i started rock and roll. This saw right. Nobody was really new. Role is so. When i may be a body i said well nobody knows what house is a wheel. After hearing a- again that makes me think of this idea of confidence. We keep coming back to. Which is that you know you. Just you just stepped out there and took that i said no i. I'll tell you what this is. This is you know. And i think in any any young producers listening to this you know now or when we drop it afterwards. That's such a such a good note. Is you know you just got to whatever you're doing you got to believe in it and if you don't believe in it you know maybe work some more me and chill We've we gave outsiders and idea what house music i mean. That's early early. Branding right yeah otherwise. We just have something you that that. Dj's clay move your body and and and like a house that's what our music worldwide as opposed to just like disco disco disco and bardo a disco this that right and you knew what disco music right right so sometimes you have to name them using you know is it a long long-term rock and roll little reminders stuff. I love this. i'd never really thought about. This is so interesting. So that's the historic. That's the historical angle. I guess that i was aware of when i made that. We'll get body. You have to name the music in our lives so much in love with house music it at time. You know it was the cool. It was the best. Well the definition i used to. Yes no. abby is a is the best and the coolest underground dance abusing. That was you know. That's what ranking buckles played. The warehouse the best in euless underground dance and Best that's the definition. I use when i made it. I didn't i didn't necessarily at a certain instrument Certain you know like a rolls piano or something like that i know. Best and coolest underground dance music best. That's how it's an attitude right. It's an attitude in a community. Maybe have you can have something with all the all. This all swore on tig all right piano all right right. Oh excuse is equal mazda. That's not how spouse almog arena mayor on the ring out. That's not how you know. So so as you know is is a is like you say edison attitude this is the underground and underground an and that's to me. It is no. I think you're right. You get to say what it is man. I think you've earned that. That's my kitchen when i bake it Coons undergrad. So what was it like when you got out of chicago. You know you put out move your body and all the sudden you know. Journalists are flying to chicago to interview you and you're you're going to the uk to play music. What do you remember about those those early outta town shows and like sort of when you realize like where this music was fitting in globally. Well cross were all man. The first crowds On the east coast l'aigle in new york and jersey. They they were freak out. I mean we will play. We'll play everywhere man we'd play. We will play the latin for right. Where they they would only play rap music and house music outta here you know and and and move your body all all okay. I like that eight. That's interesting so we were we. Were you know we would any kind of drought. We move your body toll right or i'll say this other club paul sensation in newark right. We walk into the stage. Y'all it'd be good you know as soon as move your body come all has it so It was one of those. It was one of the song we could go anywhere. Get out it was. It was a good deal. And and what was it like when you went overseas for the first time. What was it like going to the uk. And it's interesting right like the the idea of the uk kinda taking what you guys were making in chicago. And what they were making in detroit and you know back. In the day. I think kind of the uk took it. They made it their own and then eventually their form of it came back to the states. You know many years later. What was it like for you going over there. The first time in seeing that reaction well on some of the shows were great. So who's show not so great. Lakes eliminates blame sonal. The shows were empty. Right right Even empty shows. They may like they. They liked the stuff we were doing. You know But they will looking at us kind of manage a lot of people wear suits and ties and stuff and you know. We'll go on to a lot of those times really bail ties in wear nice dresses and stuff. Who are those were placed bed. They were booked us Plays like the hasegawa. There were like a lot of a lot like chicago are big replace. Set man sounded just like chicago playing all house music and he was. He was really good but like it. The ozone experience was a different boxer shows. And that's you and frankie knuckles out there. The first time now franken didn't go out. I think he. You must've had a cash Dispute or something but his is his name was on all the fliers. Send us quite a bit so as you know. Sometimes we know frankie roaming up be. Somebody's along man. How did you like the well. Let me ask a two part question. How did you like you know that. That crazy rush of touring when you started getting into it. And how do you feel about it these days. Because i know you've been you've been a road dog for so many years now. Like how do you feel about that. That lifestyle is it still. The romance of it is is still there. The lifestyle more so getting in front of a crowd play. Yeah the feedback for always. Nice the traveling now. And i do it much longer not Ah posted on facebook that i was retiring. Twenty twenty one. This was back in nineteen before the pandemic. So the shows on doing now like Reschedules you know from last year when everything got canceled. So i don't know man how much longer avi plans you know they You know man is hard. Turn people down now because they really wanna party. Yeah really bad. You know. And i wanna i wanna get the ball rolling again but you know at the same time you know. The role in lighting is not savoring. You know miles right and but ame allow more money now so well. At least there's that right harder. Yeah yeah that'd be done in another two years another two years. I mean i think that's a that's a good goal man and if you get two years later and you know you're still having fun you still feel like there's no rules to this right. Yeah last year was supposed last year was supposed to be fair. Farewell tour right. That has got chains So i guess when things come up and Mega begins this. That will be my fear will tour so one and you've been pretty productive musically the last couple years to right like i feel like you've been more productive putting out more records in the last few years. Then you know the few years before that right. Yeah okay well man. When i was playing like every week camp twenty at least twenty five years now and and and like i get back from the weekend. You know you you come down and then you know right when you you know. You don't wanna do anything. You don't wanna do any music or anything like that. So it's it's it's a trade off. Either i produce saw or i. Dj right one of the two. But i can't. I don't think i could do both. I won't do more records and great. I mean is it makes me wonder you know you've been on the road for twenty five years you've been making all you've made so many records actually thirty five thirty five years man and you've made countless records this point like what what keeps you here. What part of what. You do is still fun and exciting. You know what what part of its you look forward to. the most. This far into your career was one mega records. Being is Really hard to get something. This completely different out there right. You know because. I mean this just not a label for it. You know you really happen. Events a label. You know take a chance on a new idea you know. I don't know. I just. I just do new ideas. Just do them. Nobody'll hear almost that'd be cool. I mean you know we started off talking about how you know your new idea. Birth to this whole this whole movement right back then. There was kind of no precedent for what you were doing then. Either well yeah jesse. Saunders matters You know farley jag. Master broncos sill Talk dallas steve hurley nunnelee atanas how performance wfaa performed like these so full year. Before we were. Ill is a lot of people these for us You bidding. Where jiang you do your thing. And i did. I did move your body and and and a few other songs jin city stuff. And then i thought i really bank is spanned into john or some. Would i really think you did. I mean you know. There's so many records. We could talk about one. I had written down. I wanted to mention was Acid tracks yeah. Yeah with dj. Pierre which i mean again. I'm the best historian but that was a very early acid house song right. I mean maybe that wasn't very early. That was the first one. Okay yeah i. I didn't didn't want to say and be wrong but that's kind of what i thought. That was the first acid house records. Crazy man crazy and and they give you idea of how outfielder it was that tv real three. That i bought for one hundred fifty dollars six months after acid traits came out of the bam bam four thousand because everybody wanted to throw three once. Acid was thing. We can't find one today for lou under three thousand dollars. Man that was balashov physical. Change their dad. That one song. Did you know like i said a lot of clubs were cincinnati. Shoot since ties and stuff. We came back six months after act as Journals smiling zone you know know so it really changed the landscape. Yeah absolutely i mean. It's interesting to write these new pieces of technology and how that can change peoples brands and the sound of music. You know whether it's the three. Oh three and making acid tracks or whether it's you know you sampling or sequencing these pianos into house music. All that sort of thing Is there anything like how do you keep up with technology these days because i mean for music. Production technology in the last thirty five years has gone crazy so many different cycles in evolutions like i said q x one the processes song. You know say a do piano lines. Don't don't don't don't don't know right or baseline right after asa. I wanna copy this two hundred times right that. Make a how half right right right on the year. Yeah day this laptop on right now. I have facebook opened with somebody on facebook. I can have a movie running. I could talk to you. Oh yeah you could be producing a whole song right now. And i wouldn't even know and Does the same two hundred bars. Copy it instantly no way to dislike that so this is as the technology has really approve this lot. More our news. I mean is that is that exciting. Was that kind of the way your brain worked with you. Liked getting the whatever the new gear was you liked figuring it out during that kind of thing you know and see what new sounds like a year and you know you know Like when i when. I did video clash of you know i really liked the drones on that you know is wrong. You know that and we did a whole song on a for that. Rice elise is a new. New equipment brings new ideas of how to use it. You know i know that on my may not use it Like the next guy you know while on some some conway tweet in it. You know a lot of sounds tweak myself just messing around with it. One thing. I did want to talk about you know. We talked a lot about these. These early days in these tracks you made in these choices you made that have become so inspirational influential for generations of musicians and dance music fans and it makes me wonder you know the explosion like. I'm sure you've seen a couple times right like in the late nineties. There is this electron wave that hit the state's really hard and then more recently in dance music. There's been you know the edm boom that really broad dance music to this much wider audience. Do you look at movements like that and feel a connection. Do you see your influence in that. Like what what is your take on those movements like. They're doing their own thing. You know at the root of any movement is one or two great great songs is gonna start without the grace song and somebody did some music man to start those who des and a cheap ongoing so Assaulted them you know. I did my thing. They're doing they're doing. There's and was just keep trying to make some great song Some gray dance saws. No matter who's doing why. I love that attitude because that to me i i wonder what you think about the idea of legacy because i think i've seen some people who worry so much about their legacy or how what they're doing fits in all of that. I think it can become crippling as opposed to somebody like you where you know. I think objectively you do have a legacy at this point. But if that's not where your mind is right and you're just thinking about. Let's make great music. that's you know. I think that's where the excitement is right. That's where the fun is. Yeah well look. My thing is just just great. Move of music. I'm really come really aware of my legacy of and You know only thing only thing. I could do this. Trauma make so bright red grey songs day standing legacy because a bigger no matter where you go. Somebody's using something that i used to do. Come back to me. And i don't have to beat my chest about it. You know somebody margin jobs in d. bag next it always. It always seems to come back with me. Always say you know so so use this. This is okay. Well you know. But i'm i'm here. I'm here even even after. I'm gone i'll still be here. You know the musical key plan records. Don't get tired. Oh i guess. I mean how mu there's something about house that is timeless in a way that a lot of genres. Are you know rock and roll. Timeless music house music timeless music. But there's plenty of stuff we could tie route. That isn't isn't that timeless. And i i don't know there's something about it i keep going back to what you said about you. Know showing non musicians that they could make music too. I think there's something in that. The energy of that music the that i think just speaks to people i don't know that was jesse saunders The he got me started he got. Everybody starts with that without that. One rector on and on. We're having a completely different conversation. I'll maybe we wouldn't even be in the music business. Yeah thing wouldn't have jumped off no. Dj in chicago will made a single record. If that record hadn't come out. So that will jesse saunders and invis- laws. You know disrupted came out. It was unknown. Dj jason sondra. Wow jesse made a realtor. I can do it to better than this. And i did. Better the bet. Ryo which which i think should be. Everybody's goal right is kind of build off of what inspired you so by probably listening who've your could do better and they'll do better than that right you know you know just like teaming three zero three now us on aloes lost control by sleazy dig pierre and future her as a high to do better than that right. They did better than that right well or ten sitting you know with the violins and alive instruments there so i said hey i could do but it won't somebody better than that right but what we try to do in the first place as banks gray songs Will here say it makes do that right right. Yeah that's the goal right is just to just to build off of it. I mean i love what you're saying because it's such a good. It's such a humble viewpoint that i wish more people had is that you know we're all part of this. This thing and the goal should be to contribute to it while you're participating into it and and to just you know if you can inspire somebody with something that inspired you. I think there's kind of. There's no more like noble goal than that. Labout noble destroying. Well that's that's that's right. Yeah you gotta you gotta chase the fun of it. I mean it was really fun into beginning. Because i do a different. I guess you know be here. My else knew they were lis- and that's right that's exactly right. Bid on the nelson boom the this all that's turned into an entire genre while job too. Yeah exactly always so. Yeah man and i just love hearing you say that because i think in so often and this isn't even just dance music but kind of any arts any culture like the the originators can oftentimes get left out of the conversation right and yeah and it's like hearing utah about you know the the you can see yourself in all of this that i think that's that's important and it's i've talked to people who don't feel that way. That's that's always happened. I mean you know both our time for you know yeah a superstar. The starving arches. You know van gogh and all those guys and picasso happens man. No it does it absolutely does but you know i think maybe part of for anybody listening you wanna know how to be a good citizen in your community and your culture is try not to let that happen you know. Try to pay your respects and you're good. I'm not talking to you you. You don't need to do anything you don't want to do at this point but fight counsel. Yeah no of course man and as we're kind of wrapping it up here. I think that brings me to ask. You know what are you. What are you doing right now. Worship people be looking out for our you. I know you're all you're in the studio right now. I know you're always working on something. What are you working on right now that you're excited about thirty sauce for marshall jefferson album open because we need a next thing when needed a single. I don't wanna let them here one song. I take another song is a single. So what the next thing. I'm gonna do it before the end of this book. Great leads you know. I don't wanna let them hear something this not as good as they hit you know so yes the quality control man i mean. That's i feel like that's probably something that served you well over the years. Is that that self critical. I you know maybe maybe it's not always fun to go through it right but But this has been fantastic is as we're wrapping it up. Is there anything we haven't talked about anything else. That's on your mind anything else. You want to get out there. Man chen city on is out now. Came out two weeks ago. Oh fantastic yeah everybody. Listen you gotta judgment man and yeah. We didn't even get to talk that much about ten city. But you know those are. That's a full circle moment right. Those are people you've been working with for since you started basically right. What does he like. You know this is a question for you. What is it like so many years down the line to reconnect with people. You're working with from day one and they're still around. That's gotta be a crazy feeling jan stuff. We still being a round as the big law. Never lost contact. Always talk with byron like once a week for like thirty years. We just big merging again together. Eventually at twenty five years since the last album and enhance sleazy die and This of we said. Hey man oh you know not promise. We my died and never worked on another album so newell did what was. What was the vibe coming back and working with them after so long. Did it feel like old times. Well we was in england and byron was in chicago so it wasn't like chines. Barham was quick to bring up technology. You know. I have predicted that. I will be in another country and we will be working in real time he to bring that up. You know Addicted that thirty years ago. You know we we will. I'll be able to words from he. He would be japan and you know and command with. It's so cool man to to think about all of that the full circle moment and i don't know man i just i appreciate your time talking to me. I really enjoyed this. I hope you as well ten. Well i'll ask you the same question. I asked at the end of each one of these interviews. And we'll let you go man. It's kind of the first thing that pops into your head kind of question just looking for a memory a moment in your life and could be from anytime. When in a single moment music really affected you deeply really had a deep impact on you just in that moment it doesn't even have to be a significant moment. Just just kind of the first memory you think of before i got it music business right. It's drugs that's fair. That's fair you're not alone in having those kind of experiences early on with music stop doing drugs. Nineteen eighties man. I mean that's early for where we are now and i. I know a lot of people. Yeah well i. I wanted to see where my money was doing it and everywhere else going. When started getting success they were giving me free readings of course and and You know i. I realize After a couple of shows there was as one famous artist and they were giving me free drugs and this famous is also so go to dope us. Oh they've been giving on the yankee win but they pull out there right. Yeah they're not gonna stand behind. You know so i said okay. Well you know i can. I can do dough blog. This and and They spades to live a long time. You know. I just quit everything at the same time he was smoke. Wow look still alive said. Hey absolutely right man i love. I love the with all of this man. Whether it's the you know stopping stopping all that earlier just seems like you had such a vision for what you were going to do early on. And i think that's that super inspirational the confidence. We were talking about There's there's a lot of things i hope. People take away from this conversation man. So thank you once again. I really appreciate your time. I'm gonna let you go take care have a great rest of your day piece man.

marshall jefferson chicago jesse saunders Ron hardy marshal jefferson willie joy new york Toback Rita franklin Alaba Uja Jefferson marshall zulus dura party Jesse jesse jones lincoln Estar york new jersey jesse brien guitar center
216: Busy P (Founder,  Ed Banger Records; ex-manager, Daft Punk)

Back To Back

1:21:13 hr | 3 months ago

216: Busy P (Founder, Ed Banger Records; ex-manager, Daft Punk)

"So this is back. what's up. Pack the backers. This is willie joy. Welcome to the show. This is back to back. This is my podcast. How are you how you feel in how you doing. How was your week. How's your week. And how's has. The family has the has the job has the the kids you got kids right. Oh you won't have kids. No of course. I of course i knew that. Well let's move on. It's great to be back with you. I'm doing pretty good myself. The last couple of weeks to be honest. I felt very very hectic Kind of just one thing after the other but Sometimes i kind of like it that way. Sometimes it's good to be busy. And i'm i'm enjoying it at the moment and one thing that's been keeping me. Very busy is the new twitch channel which is where all of these episodes are recorded back to back. The show you are listening to right now is recorded live every single week twitch and you can come participate you can come be a part of it. It is in fact where we recorded. Today's episode with my guest. Busy p man. I haven't been this stoked for an interview in a long time. I haven't been this anxious for one in a long time either. A huge fan of busy p huge fan of ed banger records. The seminal label that he founded that he is the head of not only the man who brought acts like justice caches. And so many more. Mr oiseaux i could go on and on Brought them out into the public light Daft punk manager for twelve years incredible. I mean it's hard to know where to even start talking about that one but we did start we we talked about all of it and it was fantastic and busy. P has a brand new song out right now. it is called track of time and it features. I'ts berna and shea leah and you'll hear me tell him this in the interview To me it is a perfect busy p track. It's one of those songs that feels both new and old kind of fresh and classic at the same time It's an aesthetic that ed banger. And i think busy peer in particular has just just had dialed in for so long. Now you know there's a taste of that. Classic french touch sound and it was just a treat to to talk to him. So there's going to be a link in the description of this episode where you can go find the new busy p song track of time. Follow him. Follow ed banger records. And while you're there while you're looking for that busy p peeling you're gonna find a couple other links in the description as well the first one is going to be for my twitch channel and like i said if you wanna come participate in these conversations that you're here in every week you wanna come sit and listen to us talk in real time. You can hang out in the chat. You can comment. You can submit questions at the end of each one of these interviews. You're gonna hear it. We're taking questions from the audience now and it's been an awesome way to interact with you guys. It's brought this whole new dimension to the interviews People are asking questions. I wouldn't have thought to ask getting really interesting responses so go. Follow me on twitter that way. You can get notified every single time. I go live. I'm gonna start doing. Dj sets on their very soon. Every monday and wednesday is when the back to back. Podcast is getting recorded over there and every friday. We just launched a brand new so-called. Do it bang where every single week me and one of my best friends down listened to new music. Listen to demos. if you're a producer you can come submit music for us to check out review. Give you some feedback. So hit me up on twitter. You're also gonna find another link in the description for the back to back discord. Come talk to me there. I mean there every single day if if you're trying to get a hold me for any reason that is the best place to do it if you're a producer there's a section where you can share what you're working on. Get some feedback. Meet some other like minded musicians. It is a great community. We're hanging out with making friends and I love the back. Toback discord as well so me up on twitch joined the discord and most importantly follow busy p. Follow ed banger records. Go grab the new track track of time. Today's all about busy p beyond managing the career of daft punk one of the biggest electronic acts ever in history. Ed banger records not only brought us. Some huge acts acts like justice. But there is there sound. I mean it was a revolution rewired. The way that musicians brains worked across the globe in the mid to late two thousands. Man ed banger. Busy p. they changed everything. I caught up with him He was at his home in paris where he has lived all of his life and it was late there. There's a time difference. So you'll hear us opening up by me just saying that i appreciate him talking to me late at night at all but we got into. We got pretty deep pretty fast. I walked away feeling very inspired. Very great and i hope it does the same for you if it does. I'd love to hear from you if you'd like to support this podcast as always The best way to do that. Well there's a couple of different ways to do. It is come. Follow me on twitter and come. Actually start participating. You can be a part of this tele friend who loves music as much as you do. Put up a tweet tag us in your stories. I'm at willie joy. The show is at back to back. Pod has a huge impact bigger than you would think so. Shut out to everybody supporting out there. I hope all of you guys are doing well. I hope you're you're happy and your healthy. And i hope you you had some fun this week. I hope you've got some fun things lined up and whatever you're working on whatever goals you're trying to accomplish as always i'm sending you that encouragement. I'm sending you that push go out there. Go get it. You guys got this. Let's do this. I had such a good time recording. This I hope you enjoy it to. This is me and busy. P back-back let's go. I know it's late there too. I mean if it's funny have you you know in this corinthian time. It's slowed all of us down a little bit. I think and here in the states were starting to come out of it a bit. How has it changed your routines as far as your day to day. I mean you wear so many hats for what you do. Did it change significantly for you or were you able to continue with business as usual. That's that's an interesting question because you're using the willed gene and it's funny. Because we used to set zine by you know walking a deal. She said during the day listening to some music. Singing east and touring during the weekend and of course since the lockdown we we created a new gene Because of the lockdown because of the few Because of the fact that we we are not doing anymore. And i must say I kind of the special situation. Because i just had a baby so i was kind of up to to to Stay home an an joy. Some multifamily dime because it. Dj's you know family time is is definitely one of the big concern because we are always a Coming late i kind of enjoyed these. The obligation to students to stay home so like a new new oaten. Yeah of course man and you know it's interesting. It boggles my mind. Because like i said you you wear so many hats and you know obviously i wanna talk about your your new music and the track of time track and all that but even beyond that and and you're sort of return to music d when you think about yourself these days like has your idea of who you are. Your identity changed over time like do you look at yourself primarily as a label owner as a dj as producer as just a music guy Again will really i love. I love the question because I still about day. And i am exactly the same guy to different of you that i was in nineteen ninety five when i studied to to do my ondaatje's and invite a Dimitri from paris or ocasio to my buddies. I have i am exactly the same makes it. They have the two kids Mall of the beyond now. But i'm still the younger twenty years old guy you know into electric newsweek and believing bringing people together through music swells music as electric music and I don't think of change like i've done things. That's the the good boxer of my life. And i'm proud of of the stuff you know of being backed off but i'm singular the same and and being the same means being able to you know dj at night Super ottis during the day Will quiz artist. Industrial them on their videos. Walk damning on the tool etc etc. I like the old package you have. You always been that way like you know. You mentioned those early days Just running. Around as twenty-something kid wha- what was it that i mean this is kind of a broad question but what was it back. Then that really got you into it like that like was there kind of a light bulb moment was it was at a party was at a club was at a certain. Dj switched it on in your brain. I think Not to mention my son but the track of time. I mean i was there. You know in nineteen ninety-two Right i didn anti eletronic. Music became Something that creates craves clubs and and and You know what's going out of like super you know alaska underground you know like you're strictly Gay scene because of course music. We love we all eat to the gay clubs and increase older. The parties are. I was going with gay clubs and and and then they starting to open. Its little bit more and So you just a question of time. You know i was. They are the right time at the right moment at the right place and as a magnet. I want the old you know. Like i wanted you know to to do the parties. Then i want you to dj. And i want to do Beyond duty jays then i want to labor etc etc and of course. I was lucky. Because i met to fantastic defunct and When you're twenty years old of giving you an analogy for the rest of your life yeah. Absolutely so okay. Let's let's jump forwards and then we'll jump right back because you mentioned track of time. Which is your new track. Which is dr. Which is what i track in a while. Right you've been. I've been i've been lazy lazy. I'm that's the wrong will you're lazy. I was. I was busy enough. She always You know reading belabored and and giving or my energy to to to the east do Of david and making music by you know like he sticks diamond. And i'm very lucky. Because i'm surrounded by all stop delivers Nice homes you always Finished with nuclear missile was awesome bastiaan or even just these time walkways made. We sent the joint Their label and he gave me a new Energy of of to to produce and So i called the to. I love one in london icebound and failure who sing on the track. No so having those two vocals on a track makes it's definitely marxists even and this is something new for me because the only songs have done the Luik well wrapped We have mails all these guys but I want to to teach who try to express something and so the song arrived when you know when we can go back to clubs We all believe in inside of us that twenty one to become an echo a new semenov ago that we we are believing in each. You know like you're young and want to be together. We all want to party and and this is what's not what you want his. I hope over us. Yeah absolutely and i mean you mentioned you brought it up track of time when you were talking about the old times and the days and listening to track of time. This is something. i think. You've been very good at it in your music. I think you've been good at it with sort of the aesthetic of ed banger. And the people you've signed to but there is sort of a it's it's ahead of its time but then also seems like it could have been from ten twenty years ago. I totally agree. Yeah i agree and it was so because the inspiration. You know the inspiration of the of the song i grew up as sampling. Music is only electric rap music. And of course thank from the seventies on the is inside all of us so but these truck there is of course this Disconnection with the we do agee's Did you know of production being something contemporary. So this is why it's it's rough heats round entered soul. I'm from the school of what we french dutch. So i like vocal. I like when it's funky. And i and i believe we have to do it with these -absolutely. Yeah and i mean there's there's something about it and i will apologize before. I even asked this question. Because i'm sure you've been asked it before but every french person i've had on this podcast i had to ask some form of this question. Which is which is basically the french aesthetic for dance music is. There's kind of this timeless cool to it. It seems effortless although of course we all know it's not but but there's something about it that makes it you know whether it's french touch or whether it's you know i had people like ski or chami on here. Who all kind of embody what. I'm talking about in different ways. And i think you absolutely do as well it. Have you ever really tried to pick apart like what that is whether it's something in french culture whether it's you know the way french kids grow up whether it's like the music that surrounds you at the time like where that sort of aesthetic in that sort of. I don't know i feel like french dance. Music just hits a little differently and it always has. And i don't know why i've become obsessed with trying to figure out why that is none of the again. That's very interesting. I don't i don't i don't think there is like a dive on a rec- unit for of why the french you know. We have the groove musically and visually. But maybe maybe maybe we we might. We might have to do something that we kind of delete ourselves and we we embrace the inspiration. We embrace the collaboration and we are not ashamed of you. Know the saying that we've been inspired by chicago house music. We love On electric repetitive. Beat from crowder. A you know. We We love Mossy and and then we love salsa all week. Know and all you know putting all these puzzle together al I think is is french. I know it's weird because we we should our frenchness in of everything right. But i i. I believe we are. We are embracing different vibes. Inspiration and digest. All of this and make know sounds fresh. Yeah yes absolutely. I have two things in what you just said. Because i love that i mean i think this is just. That's the definition of cool. You put it so well. is that you. it's actually being cool is not being cool. It's being the least cool. It's like you said deleting yourself out of it and being very open about what inspires you and respectful of things that that you like and and highlighting those things rather than sort of trying to make. It seem like going with all of this myself. You know. I think all of that comes together and then that actually does make you cooler. You know rather than somebody trying to project. No no look at me. I'm the one you know that kind of thing. We didn't invent anything you know. This is the What what's the magic of the house. Newsy colleagues zeke needs it's It's a recycling music and we'll all everything in a to to detroit to chicago to new to new york and And then of course you know. They'd about twins mission. You know the guys from from chicago. The will very proud that for example You know when you're listening to details when you're listening defense Paying respect to all new the scene you know. Put johnson a snake. All those guys you know from a from a chicago was was definitely like showing respect and by showing respect you get respect yourself and this is what happened to defend you know. Yeah absolutely. I mean that that track teachers i think was so it meant so much to so many people when it came executive you know and for anybody watching this right now listening to it later. I mean if you don't know what we're talking about daft punk teachers you know a song. Basically listing just all these legends of of house music and techno and giving. Thanks you know. Yeah but not the funny thing so really. That's only especially is that they are big opinion. You know they are. They are being respect. You know to sue the to two also Girls but also being respect to. Brian wilson from the beach. Boys slaw all rate. And that's so lacquer an open mind and showing that you know the scene can be moved because who music. We've been very always separated. You know you'll you'd like house music you keep up you like keep up. You can be if he made that head. And i am you know me. I'm in love. I mean was run. Dmc and as much is i mean. Love over. metallica. You know then the and i know my classic you know. I know who is the week. May i know one that jeans. And i know who's jeff and and deal or no legem bashan make we. Are you know. Yeah oh absolutely. And i mean that makes me think about your early days to sort of jump back to what we were talking about a second ago. You know you as a kid where you born in paris. Have you just always been in and around paris born and raised in recess. And so you know growing up there. What was the paris scene like for you as a kid growing up. I mean what kind of what kind of music was around you and even outside of that. What kind of a kid were you like what what was childhood in paris leg. I had a really Sluice and sheila child in in embarrassed. I'm i'm going to kiev roseau. He is four years older than me. And i am seeing because it's a chance to have someone. He was a guide for me. You know introduced me to chew to let the led zeppelin To run dmc to pink. Floyd and and this is definitely the key of funeral. Happiness and trio. You know having someone. He wasn't fussing meizhou. Listen to me bill. And but i made my own choice by Through swim you know. And i. I liked what i like from from his discography and And are we says always being Area it's one of the biggest teaching the well. So we we. We will look at you like you're michael. Jackson westbound forming a lecture. I don't know what we went was lewke. My mum was the people of french radio. Okay and i was invited to to see some concert very early so very early in fact and i can now discussing zoo realizing things maybe when i was twelve years or ten years old maybe. Dc's when i studied to wilk on those concept. I was going to the show. But i was going on backstage. And maybe In consciously i i said oh i want something grew up inside of music. Oh i want to make the show up. So let's i want to run behind. So i sink slowly. And why studied my own bodies. Because i wanted to crew to create the magic. Yeah i mean that's such a special a realization to have at a young age right is i think it's very easy to look at michael jackson. Anyone who's up on the stage when your kid and just think it's almost like magic like like they're not human and something is happening. That's you know outside of normal human life. But then you go backstage and you see all the stagehands and you see all the production people and people running around in sweat and you and you and you're describing you know kind of magic to. That's the thing you know. I think of course. There is the magic of the show but there is definitely something on seoul very You know technical and magic in a winter is like a a choreography you know. That's that's ballot in the background. So because the so many involved with so many people involved and and now realizing dishes definitely which excites me. Yeah that's so true. It's it's like a private. It's almost like you're lead into a secret world. You know that a lot of people don't have access to or don't have the knowledge of and so for you you said you were. You got interested in throwing parties. What was was it dj. I you know wh what were you. Were you playing instruments like musically. How did you start getting yourself out there for the really beginning for me was being club for much. L like a in fact a to to to send it off to navigate guitar for that in. I was doing small parties in paris and one day. I receive a quote from david guetta. We mentioned ninety five and they've eat at. the time was ruining one of the most beautiful venue in preschool. the palace and eve emailed me. He knew that mice more bodies were cool and he told me do on the festival of might be glibly palace every friday night. Of course when you have even back then that you'd get that wasn't big name of i'll do the scene. But she was known it'll be. Because he was touring best stuck in town. And what was it about what you were doing that. You think he was attracted to. What was it about your parties at the time Why is think liked the fact that i used to skateboard at the time. And i think he like mike capacity of having way skit balding also go. You mean. gay crowd was opening. Its own to like a sexual crowd. you know. Like a mix of the meeks Mix it something special because it was Like a mix of different people of nice people. We won't want to together. The kids couldn't go in clubs usually and now they will having the avenida lobbying fun so i think you liked these mix and these so we give me the fell thrill to win down my body to fist through the w as room and then you either no bouncer to end till nine so my body was kind of opt to get in you. Rights as a small and and leukaemia west twenty years old. And i was doing a lot of recode shopping at the time. If we weekend that was bang records and italy weekend we will into stem splits because we had like a four five because stars in paris at the time. And when i was the guinea i made to myself than i make gaseous then. I am a dj. Deep jaeger old those Dj above sankara although they will young too. And then i said oh. I liked joe recalled. Let's do something and and slowly and studio realized that in. I invited all the french dutch before they became like the french dutch. You know. yeah yeah i mean. It's so incredible to to think about that. That you know one or two record store kind of thing where everybody's in the same room at the same place and then to think about you know how everybody goes on and where they all end up at the end of it. You know like. I told you before we got on the air that i came up in chicago and gramophone record. Yes of course. I'm sure you know gramophone. Same thing not that i had that kind of experience but i would walk in and you kind of feel that history to end. I love talking about kind of how all get started is. Is there anything about those early years where it's small and everybody's digging in the same record store and you're all kind of playing the same parties and there's maybe maybe not a loftier goal yet. Maybe it's still just this community where this we're doing something exciting where young. It's fun and you keep doing it. Is there anything about those days that you miss anything you feel like as everything's gotten so much bigger anything that got left behind. No no no. I don't i don't i don't miss anything from the past because you know like The the jewelry we will add to is a so much foot of a nice. And and so it's it's It's way more comfortable nowadays. He of course looking with community like for and stuff like that. But it wasn't that easy you know like you're technically in terms of business in terms of you know In terms of so Was at the beginning of the french. you know. now it's amazing that you know we can speak with you guys that we can travel. We can transmute we can express but none of so it's You eat so battled the magic of do all the time you know it. It was this way because it was nineteen ninety six but of course today it could be the same you know because technology the wales producing music as Completely change so no no. I don't miss anything end. The and so the most important really. I don't miss anything. Because our i rented bengal. Today is exactly the same way. I used to end night. Bodies back in one thousand nine hundred five in fact you know it's amazing to speak do because you make me say things Lacquered over we natural and spontaneous. Exactly i i'm ruining my liberal. Like i did my explanation g I don't think too much. You know. I just if i feel people on ongoing. I'm jumping wisdom doing. I'm trying my only concern is to make things up a yeah which is which is incredible. I think that's that's definitely a key to why you've had the career that you've had up to this point i mean i so it's funny thinking about you. Know sort of the the explosion of ed banger. Really when when it started hitting the states over here and you guys started touring a lot over here. i remember those days really well and i was. I was just talking to I i don't know if you know felix cartel. Yeah of course. And he was saying how much you know all of you and ed banger and justice and everybody influenced him in the early years and he was telling me about a specific memory he had of how i he said it was a show. He went to maybe even opened up early in his career. Where it was. I think you and justice. And maybe i don't even know who else circuit or so me. Or somebody all touring together. But he was saying that you guys would all play together onstage the same time it wasn't what what it's turned into now where it's a festival lineup of experts experts and then expert said and that kind of community feel i was like oh that makes perfect sense because that's always how i've perceived ed banger is just to to do to to make sure you take your love for really. We dream was to be the wu tang of a electric. This is the we be. He's thank You know like me. I have a total admiration and love fall. I will folded faulted beastie. Boy you know and we you know like in fact Banger or you know he's gonna why y'all you know the deliberate of the beastie boys over electric music. Dc's a there was definitely like a family. families saying yeah i which i think is i mean of co That's obviously a good thing. But i think it's impressive that you've been able to maintain it throughout this whole time throughout you know crazy explosions in popularity in the business growing and changing and and all that being able to sort of keep the family together. I think that's actually a really big accomplishment. And i think people don't understand how how much work in thought can go into that that's definitely a will can end of of course the amount of cuba that we have to give credit to the artist. So you know like the old the old run their own career. of course. i'm on. You know like i was the at the beginning. My my my main concern. What end my one of my goal is to be they the beginning. I love to write a line of of story. And i can only be happy. If you know. For example justice we are chapter eighteen. Now you know what go. We've been working to resolve all that twenty years and that's that's that's that's amazing. You know the trust you know like it's it's interesting. I know you know. Sometimes dude willed twist cost doesn't doesn't have the same value but for me it means some senior And i've been working. And i i was look enough to to meet a lot of people in my life and when you have my trust you have me fall fall fall your life but if if if you don't if you miss we miss these twist then definitely. There is no time for you to wish to get. Yeah yeah no time to waste to get it. That's great well. I i wanna i wanna talk more about about your production as well. How did making music not as dj. Not just the parties but when did you get interested in making music yourself. Since we we started to get zero you know we always go back to in the twenties discovering to rage their bodies etc and for my passion folic museums. I always seat as you know like a step by step a sting and when you love electric music you go to a club you go to rave and you dense so you're part of the trio by being on then slow and why you know you don't need to be like a big dj or big liberal to be part of the country or you know you do the people under then slow. They are as much as the headliner in the club. You know and so i studied Allies dancing my ass off. And i loved it you know. It was spinning my my nights on in clubs on midden saw and slogans said. Oh i want to be the dj thing to music. So i studied dj nineteen ninety-five. I bought my might techniques and my and my and my sheets you make sale and and then slowly and slowly. I love this electric music. I won't i won't do program. Beats i want to know what is simply a what is a sequential and then my acai. Nbc be two thousand nine hundred ninety seven and i studied to to program beads and make And makes and makes the tracks. And i was lucky enough to be surrounded guys Dosing demand of death penalty will industrial everyday. So one day they gave me equipments those audited. You'd me okay better. They give me a that you something so i loved it but i was. It was important. You know to hell. i noticed. advice dipping by being in love with you have to support the artist so i went to buy dante burs records and then by regards to i have like a thousands of recall that the new he's now and i think the trio you involve yourself and And then yeah so then. I studied to use those a meshing draw. But i also realized dickstein so Not saying that. I'm i'm i don't consider myself as a musician. But of course. I'm not spending Oils in days industrial on one june. Will i choose the actual different way. And this is why you know. I studied to walkways. Athletes created my labor in two thousand three and and after spinning next twelve years bank. So it's it's it's It's a long journey. You know and the and i'm not you know rush you know and this is why truck stymies coming out with four years after my last senior. But i'm not really into that can really artist I mean I don't need to release a number of years to to to prevail tool something you know like. I think what is enough to express and shell. What supervision of of trick. Music. and thanks good. She's white people are still trusting. Me are booting me. Dj everywhere. And i'm not running. After seeing this very i feel we look you about that. Yes absolutely well. Let me let me ask you kind of a weird question that you just made me think of. Which is you know where you're talking about the early days in the passion of it and and you know everybody altogether just just doing it without thinking about it too much and now we're talking about you know twenty twenty one the track of time and this this legacy of you know all these years with punk ed banger records for years and years and years all of that. Do you feel like you know what you're doing now because none of us know what we're doing when we start and it's a question that i think about a lot because i have a theory that kind of no one knows what they're doing no matter how collected seem but i want to put it to you if you know what i mean. That's interesting your I i don't think i know what doing you know. In fact that's a very philosophical question but I like i like not to control everything you know. In fact it's funny because everybody's is seeing us like as control freaks because everything is you know optimistically calculated. You know like we we we we. We want to do things well. So that's the difficulty controlling obviously sight of things but I love it so to to you know enough to think too much to prepare all right in advance issue to was what supposed to happen. Yeah i think. That's absolutely right. And i think you know leaving space for you know those happy accidents leaving space for the surprises. The you know the random bursts of creativity. i think. That's the you know being able to do that and giving yourself. Maybe it's sort of that deleting yourself out of it thing that you were talking about earlier i think that's so so important. I mean to give a concrete example is a very small example. But i think it ties back in. I used to be a kid sister's dj. for years i was. I was with her in paris while they were shooting the doo-doo-doo video mill away. Oh yeah yeah with five and a yeah exactly and we were there. It was like midnight or something and for anybody listening. Who hasn't seen that video. Go look up card blinds do. It's a great video but but my point in all of this is that there's a section of that video where Where melissa kid. Sister is on a moped. And she's on a carousel wrapping and that night when we were all there for that video suit none of that was planned and it was kinda just you know we. We all showed up at a certain place. And they're like well. What do you want to do. There's a carousel. It might look cool if you wrapped on the carousel and it was put together in this kind of just free way. And then i watched the when i knew i was coming to talk to you. I re watched that video just for fun and it looks so put together and aesthetically. It fits so well. I think with just ed banger attitude and visually all of that but then for me knowing that it was there and it was just kinda like. Let's just have some fun. You know but but you know like you just to resume you know you know. And even today you know that's that's the motto of like ulitsa sean. Enjoy it as much as we can. And especially you know. You're talking jacob launch You know we lost the jimmy ten years ago and and Do any algae left us. Any you gave us is audible dot you know about Let's enjoy it as much as i can. Absolutely yeah i mean. Of course you know our pedes committee. It's amazing in four and a half years of doing this podcast. How many people. I talk to. Who you wouldn't necessarily expect cite him as an influence or somebody important or you know his music touching them in in his. I mean yeah. I not not You know we don't have to go too far down this road if you don't want to but just for for anyone who might not know i mean if you just think about dj medi kind of in a general sense. I mean does any. Do you have any memories that pop into your head a lot. Any any impressions just if you hear his name. What do you think about when we have no problem. You know like this is the the good the goods battle each of course it was a tragedy you know when when mini passed away but Talking about him he's kind of. Ibm with us. You know and that's the best sensation. I have you know. And he's always me every day He was by strenuous. My side was the you know like your e e gave the name of their labor was three. I is that right. I didn't know he gave you the name for the give. The name of liberal and You as the definitely like the magnets. He was attracting everybody around him. He was an incredible. dj one of the best partier. Any mola in the galaxy and it was also very talented. A music producer and yod add these Disapp- game coming from the french seville producing french. You pump and kind of bringing a revolution into it. Because he studied to put some bit into the french rap. Annie e we won't the good records Fringe banda and slowly and slowly get attracted more and more by house music and he you went into a two hundred percents and enjoy. Life is much Joy every beat of like traveling regarding missing you know keeps these to mckay meeting. You know like it was like a was. The most unsophisticated character. So he's definitely missing him every day but again you know what. I'm saying it with a smile because the energy needed to fail you know you gave us is engaging Yes absolutely. I have this one memory of him. I didn't get to meet him very many times. But there was one time when i think it was carte blanche came and they played a show in chicago at this venue that is gone now called the green dolphin and the green dolphin had on monday nights. It was the longest running house music night in the country. For something like you know over ten maybe twenty years something like that and they came through and they played this historic house night in chicago and they killed it and it was such a fun night and you could tell how much fun medi was having there and i just that night. I barely even talked to him that night. But i just have this very concrete memory of him up there smiling. Deejays actually yeah. He was a digest. Money and ben singing the base to. Can you know you can see from her. From from the dj dj didn't sing as much as you know. Yeah i love. I love that you said that. Well i mean there's so much to talk about. When i knew we were coming to talk. I kind of already knew we weren't going to be able to get to everything. And i didn't want to focus too much on daft punk because i'm sure everyone always asks you about that constantly but you did mention you know when you're young in your twenties that you did meet the guys from daft punk but you know how did how did that relationship sorta get formalized you know and you officially started working with them like i think it's always interesting to talk about the the beginnings of things like that. Yeah but i'm up. i'm again. I'm i i have no problem speak ability it because it's thought of my life jurisdiction youtube music sept off my lucky i wrote some. Some shop tells me to the desktop doing different. Like a very important to me and in fact we did not formalize much you know because we will twenty old. At the time. I was doing my and i just do lunch We still nice of that. And you said oh yeah. We we late join. Lg we liked. You know you. You have a good contact with people. We are industry right now so i went to the studio. We still miss any blaming. The they were working on and i was like well Was insane and and area. We are working on another beaumont. It's going to be finished next year. But then why do we understood you. We need saw one to answer to the facts because at the time. Each emails I'm charlotte of people watching sitting there. What's what's the facts facts and can tell you guys and And then so my. My first job was to To the people who said i want to spend because they were slightly the little beat of fame on the underground senior. Be west. This sign on. 'cause he's liberal soma and they did we need like you're a bunch of ap's running scratching baffoon. A club and dubose was already starting again under underground electric senior but people wanted them to play in scotland billion in now and my role was to say. Oh thank you for the affairs but dubose einste- you and i spend twelve years of my life saying no to people with a smile and nbc's why. I'm i'm i'm pretty good a good deal. Not you know like diplomacy the because my role was to you know not to upset anyone just to explain like yeah those guys nia they are working on on on musique and and we'll see but then of course slogans They stopped to open. We need liquor shoot on or around the world and it was the best time of because you know when i learned everything. It wasn't so different time it was like you're a pioneer anytime. You know like they would do because they will one of the first big literally act as a major company that was belgian. And then you know like you're having some meeting with the the As as big as jenna jacksonville smashing pumpkins and that's that's that was. That was something you know. Forty critic music and even offer french at least french music. wasn't sticking sale. Usually you know like everybody when you wealthy french music doodoo will making your budget that billy And and and and then the desperate definitely you know. Put the light on on the french scene and of course guess ios motel bass a fringe band. You know what bring these energy to to to the world but Yes go back to your question. We never reviewed formalize anything. You know that you don't even need a manager. Wasn't a manager on west virginia old at you don't know nothing about music or i knew and i had in. My bag was a look of energy and passion for this music and have been final going since day. One and i am still dot com today. You know i. I think to give your life as much as i need. You need to believe in. You need to love the project you're working on and and what i did was funk it's executive stem sensation. Add jimmy d. All i always just like am different. I'm in total admiration of those guys. It's funny talking about you. Know the saying no to everybody because it makes me wonder about the few times that they did say yes like. Where were you working with them. There's so. I was born in minneapolis. And the midwest rave scene in the nineties kind of has its yeah. You know where. I'm going with this so and for people who don't you know i it was. I believe daft punk first. Us performance race was this rave in a field in wisconsin call. Yes something like that. Which i was not there but just being in the midwest rave scene at that time sort of turned into this mythical event and i don't know if you saw this the promoter from that recently pulled out the old rider from like daft punks writer and posted it up. And i'll see if i can find a link and send it to you read. It was really fun. Kinda just like it was very polite. It was like these are the flights we would like but if they're not available that's okay. We can talk about it. And the list of tech equipment was it was all very bare bones all very starting off like deer member whether it's that event or other like early events what would make defunct say yes. Well what was attractive about an event enough to to make you think they should do it or to make them want to do it. While deep out at that time You know they were travelling in italy opening in glasgow the playing in a in brussels In munches also like ninety nine hundred six hundred ninety seven we will accepting king lexington normal way. You know like a step in connection you know like your people that the zandi and stuff like that but but it's really after those years will the early days of course You know we were old We've wanted out the studio. You know indefinite questioning live. We didn't have road managerial we carrying the desperate. Kick week men to ninety nine the sequence sales in suitcases. it wasn't even flight guessing with casings. And this is what we will always troubling like real venturefriends together alabama but That's that's that's the story of these. Bandaids because it studied as like you're really like a college band And then slowly and slowly getting more and more than shown and when you have not been shown you fresher and wisdom chrishell comes you know like your of these nesting and luckily damn after due to business the success and and then you can build something but do what people need to know. It's always the most success. They had A democracy we are putting the success in this Into the money into their own project they were known. Stop like okay. Uh did you don't want to stop you. Know like your wendy. I too big advance from valjean. People were kind of you know all going to get the dig get tweets. They're going to get money. No they investing and produce media was produced shows and Trucks and slowly and slowly. They built on empire. But you don't you don't build an empire you from bushido a fake name and and this is why you know what i admire him and we always you know defend them because what they did is like a unique a noble end. And now it is. You know it's it's so precious no-one who do in your digital. Yeah no i. That's absolutely right and it makes me think about you know. The definition of success is different for everybody. You're right i think. Especially in in the modern era for deejays and producers as with social media. And all that i think people sort of get influenced or trained to think that there's only one right way to succeed or that you have to do xyz in order to be famous or in order to whatever it is. Yeah it's fake right. It's like it's under the day. They wrote their own a historian the end and they create their own rules and And that's that's the of this been but most important soba people know about this dotted with like a completely oppose eat. Mtc stem Vision of the business. You know like they didn't want to be they do they will like okay. We don't care about that. We don't want fame. We won't what he's a success and respect and stuff like that but they don't want fame rights and it's funny because that's such a. That's such a great goal. That's such a good aim for it and like you said when they started off doing any of this there wasn't a roadmap for it there weren't there weren't like masked dj's now is like almost a cliche in certain circles but back then you know that's that was unheard of right and it's funny. How sort of our ideas of of what. What is cool and what is for thank. You can change over time like did it become one of those things where they set out to do it anonymously and not to make it about them but i feel like there was a certain subsection where people just got obsessed with finding out who it was. But he wasn't a plan you know. In fact delete a lot of people are questioning was was he a idea to create. The mystery noted that the center ninety it was a wish it was like a whale's relieving you know they didn't want to you know to end the fact that people would. She knew the fact they. They will not change by this. You know they will interested by people. You know Being you know in love with music videos always shows so yeah. It's different not plan like you like a brainstorming. Let's ida will be on we. I think it was you know. Did they will asking the people to use their imagination. And that's the best in fact that's the different or the the they will asking people to create them. You know in fact. Yeah i love it. You said that i something. I talk about a lot on here. Because i think a lot. We have a lot of up and coming. Artists are aspiring artists. Who listen to this. And that idea of building a world that people can enter and people can interact with and the people can kind of come and live and hang out in is such an important idea to that makes total sense. You just kind of connected something in my brand that. That was like an early goal for daft punk. I mean it's so let's this is interesting to me talking about them and then many many years later let's jump ahead a little you know. You've you've started ed banger. Records some big records. They're out of the gate and then You started working with justice who also became this this phenomenon in their own riots. Was there anything about. I'd love to hear how you met them and started where you with them. But also you know after or during this experience with daft punk. Is there anything you learned working with them that you could sort of apply to working with justice and seeing you know when they started to pick up steam when they started to explode. Was there anything from the past that you were able to apply to what was happening. Then like every like every like the one basis that eastern on fall for what i do is do the the fact that being patient you know things will come if they need to come. But let's not rush anything. Of course this is what defend candies is exactly what we are doing. The justice for example That's it was like one of its fields of he ended so on creation and seekers side of things Believe in what you doing exactly what we create an environment create your world and i think what we do with justice the of their own sound but though so you know when it suggested you knew when you see a just to show you know the last justice social equity sheila frank ocean side with the game after the show and they will nine below to those kind of talents coming to us saying it while what what what just happened is approved that you manage to create something that he's mind-blowing and and and and yeah and build this Tuxedos you know this is why you know what. I'm forty six years old. So i love to twenty twenty one and i'm not saying before it was bitter because i still believe shoots you. Will you be bill. You know what. I believe. A bit of joe but While i'm saying that's just to say to the kids while he's setting dickstein you know even though today you can ask w you can go check and learn about. Dufferin can sending two older songs. I it's it's a look. You're lucky to be able to have access to so much information with your laptop. Click but it takes time you to understand seeing to digesting to create to invent reinvent so i love you know audio within in new. You've been twenty years. I'm lucky we've just you know people things. Justice is like a sweet deals. I think we'd been twenty years. You fix time. Yeah oh absolutely and so. Let me throw this one at you. I was reading some old interviews of yours. When i knew we were coming to talk and there was this one one quote. This is just like a random thing. I think to some random blog. And you you were talking about a show you at just done and think. The interviewer was talking about You know the fact that you were. Maybe on the floor when you performed or close to the crowd something like that. And you're saying that. And i'm paraphrasing a little bit but there's something about how that's how it should be and then the the exact quote was deejays are not fucking rockstars and struck me as interesting because i know exactly what you mean by it and i know i think that goes back to everything we've been talking about. It's the right attitude to have but then also in a funny way. I think your partially responsible for deejays becoming rockstar with to accept your the parallel and the confrontation of those two Because i in fact. I believe in both you know like i and executive said we kind of created You know the attitude with the image adjustments. The day she walks down you know people asked of them in in india. We had room. But what i meant about Maybe playing a unilateral on the ground meetings Still being you know not behind a window behind the glass. You know the episode. That's that stiffly. I think he'd be you know that could union young situation you know and so maybe It wasn't so making fun of sefton type of rockstar. Dj's i know. And you know exactly what i mean and but i'm not i'm no one to judge you know like because You know what i'm doing. My things are so we love to to to be in magazine to shine we. We love to be When people are noah phased in a restaurant club. It's always night but there is a difference between recombination off and fame and at least when people are asking for something. They know who we are what we do. It's not just. I saw you on. Tv yielded dj. You know this is the difference between You know what i do. A rook style their fame. And you know that the recognition we are we are looking for man but yet no that makes total sense. I wasn't even trying to put you on the spot with that. I just thought it's interesting. How you can start something with intentions. And then at at a certain point it gets so big that it almost doesn't belong to you anymore. If you know what. I mean like people you know people tell you what you put out there and interpreted however they want and it it takes on a life of its own right whether it's justice getting so big that they are literal rockstars or whether it's you know the mystery of death punks all of that. It's at a certain point. It's like if you do your job. Well enough it doesn't belong to you anymore. Which as i'm saying. That is kind of a weird thing like you have to give up ownership of your ideas at a certain point but that's again we keep seeing it we'll keep looking with magic the magical of often and with doing music you know like we all writing stories we are creating cocktails we are inventing a world and then we invite people in this world and each of the people listening what she is in jeopardy genius is imagination is is on way and that's that's that's that's different g a good thing and you still have this mystery you know because if if you're giving too much you know there is no mystery than it's a bit boring yeah that's absolutely right i mean i think that you correct me if i'm wrong but another sort of Thread that runs through. All of ed banger. In the whole aesthetic of what you do is there's this sense of fun and humor to it to a certain extent even at the biggest levels you know some some of justices biggest videos all of that. There's like there's an element of of just fun to it. That i think helps keep it. Maybe that's part of that aesthetic to now that we're talking about it and again. Correct me if i'm wrong but keeping it grounded in that sort of fun. Humorous like this is a big deal but also were just kind of fucking around way exactly. That's that's that's the motto of life. She like your. I think a sense of humor. Will you know a proof of intelligence and I'm not seeing ruston. Even though i believe we ve very smart guy our you. Yeah but the none of we love to make you know i. I love to make fun of ourselves so we don't take ourselves seriously. So that's the that's the starting point and and starting that's it's allow you to with we with everybody and the and the and and and and again that's due to shutout to do to the beastie boys some ozone band. Some people added the same. You know In life and then funding to always we people and this is exactly what try to do. Yeah i love all of that man. I just really enjoyed this conversation. I wanna talk a little bit more about the the new stuff about track of time. We didn't really touch on the video yet. So let's let's do a two part. Let's talk a little bit about the video. Which is again really funny. it's kind of. It's just a fun hilarious concept for video and then after that sort of what. What are you excited about right now. And what do you. what are you thinking about. What are you working on. This doesn't have to be promote whatever's coming up sort of what what's fun for you right now in in what you're doing right now i'm a. I'm the flow. He's been crazy because you know like Twenty twenty was of course for all of us like your year and you know floating in ed and twenty twenty one. I've been so busy for us. You know we've we've been reducing guess valves Defense that will need. We signed some new artists. You know we about to release. A friendship helps Mad ray which which is very tendency and we've been very very busy and and then for the next ad for two year you know. We have a new mexico with a new break votes. We have. I already avenue busy. Be on a single coming out before me for christmas. I'm working on a book with a fringed jacob. dj deep Which i'm show you. We love a book about like you know. I will fashion of house-senate twenty using amazing So yeah we we we. I keep busy. You know what. I sometimes eludes My real name is released But my friends are cutting me busy. P and sometimes. I'm like oh i want to go back to fit all because these appease dc ambition should be be. I i i. I don't have any minute for me. It's it's crazy but yeah i'm always excited by by by electronic music. I think it's it's it's the world i want to spend my life. These people are mixing things together. And it's innovative. It's avangard its futuristic and and and and and and this is what will what. They're like That's that's beautiful Are you the kind of person. Do you get an see if you're not busy. Do you have a hard time going on vacation relaxing. That kind of thing. No i must say. Now on the bill man i kind of enjoy. It's you know like A chill on an taking of my family so no no. No no i. I'd love to be able to sometimes to too. But i'm also away all do. I'm on my engagement with my studio. i have to. I have to be off 'em so he asked a lot of time of course while at a couple of questions here and we'll get you out of here okay. So a mirror. Dj and the chat wants to know. I think this is sort of a joke. Question but What's the best way to get into music production in order to get onto ed beggar. One day i know. That's that's not the city question and in fact what's when you when you add bengal knows boden don't send Own dated music. You know. I received so much a fake justice sound. You know stuff like that. And and i recommend the young producers. Try to surprise. You know if you want to be on that bengo. Don't send me at your type of music. You know. Because i just i have boat i have me still is also i don't need. I don't need these. Of course you can be inspired. And that's i need love. You found out but you should send me music. Don't send me a fake justice. Yeah that's a. that's a great idea. I've heard other people say the same thing as if you wanna be on the label you love send something. That sounds different than the label. You love exactly. yeah now. it's beautiful parking at. Are you still skating. Because i feel like pedro is still a skater at heart. That would you know. I'm i'm i now. You know. I'm forty six. So i if and not in good shape but i'm visiting to your skateboarding off. following ol-. Although skit boils on instagram today. Each the level of teaching. His is insane and An and skateboard cottrill for me as much as in boston as my my milo house music you know what i can and was two foundation And bald control The cajoles that made me and and and made me see the world as i see today tried to create my own of it and Definitely to the young people listening. Skateboarding is definitely one of the best school of life. I love that and it's so funny the longer you stay in this game the more skateboarders or former skateboarders you there really is some kind of connection there but i've never answering and and just little notable. That's you know my favorite skip to own. My life is is from x. ray bobby is a legend. And the dime. We managed to cross past together. And and he's a musician is a photographer. And it's amazing tweet. Is that skit build. Brings you know in reveals at least and Seats equity speak about the los foskit. Learning you while we also. Yeah yeah well. We'll do that for part to maybe exactly all right two very quick questions and we're outta here l. in the chat is doing my job for me and is asking about the track of time video and wants to know. Did you get to meet the actors from the track of time video. And i'd love to just hear a little more about how that concept came together and for the people who haven't seen it you gotta go. I don't wanna spoil it but it's You gotta go watch the track time video so the of was directed by your friendship for direct coal battiste financially coma. And these young after the you didn't do much Videos yet but he's finishing very tenants the as his own version is very. He knows exactly what he wants. So i and and she's good as someone you can trust and would takes you to his will and had this idea of thinking twenty kids. Houdini room and forced them to dense law. Twenty four wheels. And i loved the idea because we've been logged down for year but we don't dance. We couldn't meet people in clubs. And i love the concept of whipping people again inside the rule and ask them to dance and of course photos who for photos. It's a very inspired by a noval number. We can no vote in fact they don't they should assist on all right. Yeah you know so we teach inspired by pseudo by those dance marathon and And guesting you did. You took only french young fringe guys from from from around and i love again. It's you've seen button to to show. You noted a young french seen you know like mixed crowd you know from from all regions and they all benching together on their partying to gizelle and we we. We have enough of this ship. Rit dwelled you know we need to you know like not being equal to what the velvet music and asked as a role you know and and those little details as to choose to to to make sense. Yeah absolutely and there's something about watching that video that you really do get that sense like because i know watching it that they've been forced to be there and dance for twenty four hours. There's something there's a second level of reality added onto it where you look at them being goofy or running around or whatever it is and you can kind of understand that no no. This is very real. This isn't somebody saying. Okay now you push this person. It's not directly. it's very authentic which i really liked. It's super authentic of course because it's a music video at some point. We asked them to dance. You know when they do the dance we ask them for that but the concept was really to lock them. The you know what they will destroy will always they. Were you know the a problem. India feeds and everything but Yeah the concept was was very interesting. Yeah absolutely all right so last question and we'll get outta here. I think is a good one to wrap it up on because it kind of ties back to what we started this whole conversation. Talking about Fun oh wanted to hear more about the gay club scene in paris early. I and and the that influenced you and maybe if you have any memories that kind of run in your brain of that. And i think just to tie it all in. I think it's perfect as a way of sort of we talked about respect and we talked about being open about your influences and and giving thanks to the people who started what we're doing now and Yeah i i would also love to hear more about that. That early gay scene influence. So let's let's go back to piracy nineteen ninety-five Even before so in nineteen ninety-two fest. Rave used to go Nineteen ninety two and to go to those raids we to listen to a radio because at the time own find yours in some record stores and stuff like that only radio that was playing house music and give good meeting point to go to this raves to go that's treat to go through. This thing was a gay radio. Coal a f g calls gay okay and we were listening to dissuade new and of course Best idea was listening Of us for the radio was told Would you say that you're meeting a cold. You know electric for nothing but Very effigy was so important and Of course at the same time the the french club you can hear house. Music welder clubs. So of course at the beginning of between to to to to understand these valleys but mentioned ninety-five. I realized that i could go in. You know like your. Let's push the door and resident than you know what people are being scaled. What i'm gonna see behind these people are naked. What they will in fact we just see happy people dancing having fun and welcoming us with a smile on their face and add the best time of my life and i really unique Embrace this movement lucci for me the adopt me you know i was super friendly and welcome and in fact i love you know even reinvent myself drew dress well through adding fun change. Could all my air. It was definitely a Having fun or together and new doodoo schule moment of the house music. Men's women's to me. You know being bringing people together you know when you're listening you know to Manda now anyway bras. Cv stan of course a memory. Man what was i on the help us is end. Joyce there you go you know need for me. That was the promised land. You know like your and then as i said on yell slowly and slowly you know i was adopted in those gay clubs and they gave me the night than i was doing my own club night on tuesday night. You know gay club. And we meeks people together and And this is why exactly as you said you know. We have to respect. We have to again teach two young girls. Sometimes on the internet the are being be. Does jupiter reach. You know we have to you know know where it stops We need to protect. We need to respect and And and and that's life you know and i think we lead wendy's stole Studied news discussion with deleting your yourself by respecting the people you you you are installed always we look to shine but you know we. We didn't invent anything you know. So let's enlight. Older does inspiration. Yeah that's so beautiful man. I completely agree. And i think that's the story you just told. That's the perfect illustration of how music can bring people together and just bypass any confusion. You know it's you going to the gay club and maybe before you go. There's a separation you're over here and there over there but it bypasses any kind of conversation just once. You're there altogether listening to the same song dancing together. It's one is the same thing. It's it's beautiful and i think that's that's the power of what we do. I think we're doing our jobs. Well that's maybe the noblest am we could averitt. And so when you look at today you know sadly i can see the separation of those wells you know and this is again something. That's that's carry you know when we reach in terms of feelings by being together and today you see like okay. The the glycine is gaining is getting closed and those guys on the on the right on the list and a. I hope i call tweet. Geno fall flavor would reunite again. But let's not let's not go This is absolutely ban and thank you again. Let's get absolutely well. This has been fantastic. Man i hope you enjoyed it. I hope you had fun. Is there anything else that we didn't talk about anything on your mind. You want to get out there before we say by. You know what we would continue. Let's see people enjoy this show. And if she wanted to with a really jillian busy p just at the snow and we would make you toughen absolutely man well. This has been fantastic. I'm gonna. I'm gonna to send you a dm with that. All daft punk contract. I'll dig this all right man. What thank you so much about. I gotta take care bye bye.

ed banger paris willie joy chicago Mr oiseaux ts berna shea leah Toback ocasio twitter ottis Ed banger Deep jaeger ondaatje felix cartel dickstein chicago house Dimitri agee Newsy
219: Katie Bain (Director of Billboard Dance)

Back To Back

1:36:01 hr | 2 months ago

219: Katie Bain (Director of Billboard Dance)

"This is back you back backers. This is willie joy. Welcome to the show. This is back to back. This is my podcast. Were back how you doing how you feel and i hope you had a good week. Good weekend i hope wherever. I'm fine you whether you're in the gym at home in the car at work. I hope that i am finding you well. I'm doing all right over here and to be honest if you ever want to know how i'm doing these days it's pretty easy to find out because At this point most days of the week. I am live on twitch. So have you ever wondering you know. Hey hey what's that guy up to All you gotta do is log onto twitch dot tv slash willie joy and you'll probably find out i'm recording episodes of this podcast live every single week and that is just how we recorded. Today's episode. i. I am very excited about this. I've got katie bane on the show. Katie bane is the director of dance and electric music coverage at billboard magazine and not only. Is this cool. You know just because that's that's a big time position. But i've been a fan of her work and her writing for a while when she took over that position I noticed a big shift in the tone of the reporting that was going on over a billboard very much in a positive way and We get into all that in this conversation. You're about to hear katie's always working always writing always dropping new content for you to read Most recently she put out the cover story for. I believe the latest issue of billboard which was a big exclusive about the return of swedish house. mafia. We talk about that experience. That story apparently took over a year to write and just general getting a glimpse into how stories come together. How do you. How do you get written about in billboard. What is what is a good story. What is a bad story. You know this thing i think. For a lot of artists and producers. You never really know how it happens. so i think this is a great opportunity to learn. I learned a lot. I really enjoyed talking with her. And there's gonna be a link in the description of this episode where you can find all of katie's writing you can keep up to date with her what he's working on next. You can go read her big swedish house mafia exclusive. That just dropped All of that is going to be in the link in the description of this episode. You're also gonna find another link to the back to back discord guys. Are you sick of me saying it yet. I i'm a little signi saying it. But i gotta keep saying it because you gotta come join the back to back discord. That is my my clubhouse. My server. I'm in there all the time. It's a great group of people if you make music. If you're a producer you can come share what you're working on. Share some demos. Get some feedback link up with other like minded people and from there. It is a hop skin. Jump to my twitch which is really becoming the hub for everything. I'm doing right now. I'm recording multiple episodes of this podcast. Every single week live on twitch. I would love to have you come join. It's so fun to have people sit in. Watch these interviews happened. Live and actually participate. You can come ask questions to your favorite artists. You can actually help shape and affect what happens in these interviews. And it's it's been really great. I love having everybody coming through and hanging in the chat so right now. The podcast is every monday and wednesday on twitch usually at two. Pm pacific although sometimes that changes depending on my guest The dj sets. Tuesdays and thursdays. Also around one or two pacific and then friday at ten. Am pacific time every single week. I get together with one of my best friends and we do a show called. Do it bang where every single friday. We're listening to all the new releases that dropped were reacting to him given our feedback and we're also listening to your music again. If you're a music producer you gotta come through. Do it bang fridays. Ten am pacific on my twitch. We will play your song. Live on the stream. We will give you immediate feedback. And i gotta say it's It's become something. I'm really looking forward to every single week. It's one of the most fun things. I'm doing right now. So come through hang with us. Help us figure out is music good or is music bad. That's that's really what we're going for here and one day we will find out the answer with your help but look guys today. It's all about katie bane as a musician. Who sort of become an amateur interviewer. It was very Anxiety inducing to to her a professional interviewer and professional journalists but she was fantastic. There's a lot of good stories in here. A lot of inspiration a lot to think about a lot to chew on and so. I hope you have good shoe. That sounds gross. Look how you hope you enjoy it. I think you're you're really going to enjoy it. I know i did and before we get into it as always. I'm thinking about everybody out there. I hope you're doing well. Yes you the person hearing my voice right now Whatever you're working on this week whatever you're thinking about whatever you're hoping on whatever you're trying to accomplish i'm sending you that love that support and what i'll say this week is Look if there's something you know you gotta do. But you've been avoiding it. Just just go do it. Just go to a right now. You can do it while. You're listening to this podcast. It'll be done you'll feel better and you will be one step closer to whatever that thing is we. We all got a thing. What's your thing doesn't matter. Whatever it is you'll be a little bit closer to it and you will feel better for it. Okay so guys. Enjoy this episode. I love you all much-loved everybody out there supporting as always hit me up on social media at willie joy At back to back pod let people know spread the word about this show as always anytime i see us getting tagged whether it's in your stories whether it's a tweet just letting a friend no they should check out the show. I'm always going to be showing that love back. And that's all i gotta say. This episode really made me smile. I hope it does the same for you. This is me and katie bain. Back to back lesko food are you from. Are you from. Wisconsin originally yeah. I grew up near green bay. Nice i grew up in minneapolis. Did okay see you get the appeal of midwest. Summer i get the appeal of a mid west everything to be honest. I'm still kind of a mid west boy at heart. I feel that. I'm i'm very much that i come home. I mean in the pandemic. it's benazir. But i'm home quite a lot and it's always really nice year in l. a. I'm actually in dc these days. But i've bounced all around. I lived in san diego for six years and chicago for many years before that i've been i've been bouncing. Well yeah i agree with you. A midwest at heart. Yeah absolutely are you. L. a. based generally. Now am yeah. I've been la for fourteen years. Does that sound like a long time. When you say it took a long time and then i also think like a lot of stuff is happened writes in. It's crazy. it's it's it's not a place that i thought i would ever lived for that long So i yeah. I can imagine i you know i kinda wanna talk in this in this conversation about the path the took you there but before we even get started with that. I wanted to start off by saying i. It's interesting. we were saying right before. I started recording here that you know usually you're the one interviewing people and and this is a bit of table turning and for me when i go to research people i'm talking to you know. Usually oftentimes on this podcast. It's deejays and producers and people like that. And so you know google you know like name interview or name video or buy or whatever and for you. The problem was every time i did that. It was you interviewing somebody else understand. Exactly i mean. I always wonder about that like i think. Journalism is a very noble pursuit. And doing this podcast has given me a better appreciation of how much work it can be. But i think what the reason i say. Noble is because you know the deejay producer thing. What i do and what a lot of people i talked to do. It's very ego driven right. It's very much. I'm on a stage. Look at me. Listen to what. I'm doing whereas journalism. I think he's doing a lot of important work. But oftentimes the people behind it go unsung. I don't know if you feel this way. But that's my perception. Well i think as journalists we celebrate each other and so i feel lucky to be sort of in a community where i do get a lot of positive feedback but yeah obviously a different thing from standing on a stage in front of a twenty five thousand people which. I'm sure feels incredible. Oh sure of course. But i mean what is the feeling like. Let's talk about You know you just broke this big swedish house mafia story right and i have to imagine. That's that's a big exclusive right and getting that realizing it's happening flying out to sweden having these experiences and then dropping the story. I mean. I feel like that's gotta be equivalent kind of feeling it it. It was more acute. I would say we've been working. We've been working on this story for a long time. I would say a year while we were working the story before we knew anything about what they were doing We were just trying to figure out where they were at you. Know in the two thousand eighteen reunion like literally where where And so it was a lot of sort of interviewing anybody that would talk to us before the guy's got involved And so then. Sue know as of last week see. The billboard is up in times square and the billboard in advertisements. Go up around the world and people start talking to know to be you know sitting here on my computer knowing what was to happen and knowing that i would be chew deliver a lot of information. Sort of helped hub. At story was really exciting. It was really exciting. The whole thing was exciting. Anytime you get to travel for work. And i'm a big swedish house. Mafia fan and sort of go in and talk to them. I mean really. We spent three days with them. And so yeah. I mean i think the difference between journalism and in a live performance for still making that comparison is disturbing the immediacy language. If you're performing your you you have people in front of you and obviously you have your lead time in your preparing for that event but like most of journalism happens alone or with the very small group of people and the feedback happens primarily on the internet. And so you don't necessarily always get that sort of like one to one human connection. But i will say that Dropping story of of that size Yeah it was really exciting. Especially after like i said we had. We'd worked for so long. I mean come on. it's a big deal and i. It's super interesting for me to hear that this was something that you had been. You know working at For a year or so. Because i don't think. I i don't think people general like dance. Music fans people who read billboard that sort of thing understand like really what goes in to say a cover story or a big exclusive like that like for you i mean. Let's just use this swedish house. Mafia story as an example. You know you said. Initially you were sort of reaching out to to anyone who had talked to you about it. Was there any kind of were you able to use any pre existing relationships. Do you have a certain trust reputation credibility in this industry at this point. Having done what you do for so long that helps you in that regard. I hope so. Yeah i feel like you. Do you think that i am. Yeah i you know. I think that In the swedish house mafia is a sort of a singular story in the way that it was reported. At least for me in that Initially a lot of people didn't want to talk on the record because no one really knew what was going on. People had a lot of guesses. People had bits and pieces of information but no one wanted to come out and say this is what i know because i think they wanted to protect themselves which i totally understand anything they also wanted to sort of You know not disrespect the band itself and so It was a tricky one to report initially in. Oh it just just truly asking anybody in everybody that i know in the dance world Do you get some people dead. Some people did. Some people wanted to talk. Some people definitely didn't wanna talk. Some people came back around Kind of thing. Sorry not to cut you off but just out of curiosity is it. The kind of thing like when you're thinking to write the story in the first place that you maybe you don't even know exactly what the story is one hundred percent one hundred percent and that's why i was doing it It was like i knew as a fan for me. There were questions of what was happening after twenty eighteen. Ultra show. And so yeah. I had no idea what the story was when we started. And you know again. It was a lot of digging a have to really gave credit as well to my colleague alexi by waiver. Who reported the story with me In that we had you know a lot of bits and pieces of information called from a lot of different sources and then then sort of just started putting together this narrative and then eventually some big pieces fell into place when we found that they remanded met being managed by sal. They left their label. Bay signed republic And then we're able to finally get in touch with guys themselves and get them on board to to speak with us which was I don't want to say it wasn't easy. But they haven't done an interview like that in a long time and certainly to have journalists arriving in stockholm spending a bunch of time with them like felts unprecedented and so we wanted to make them feel safe as well And also you know use that we had and we had a lotta reporting by the time we got there so everything just sort of became stuff to to run by that you know. We heard this. We heard this. We heard this. Yes through no maybe false. Okay liz yeah. Of course. I mean that's that's like one of those classic. Duality is right. Is the journalist musician relationship. And you know you use the word you wanted to make them feel comfortable and safe. I think safe is like a keyword there. How do you how do you do that like obviously. I'm sure it's different case to case but you know other than just building relationships in knowing people for a long period of time like how do you get that kind of trust. How do you make somebody feel safe enough to kind of open up to you. Yeah it's a good question I mean i'm kind of just asking for myself so i can know for later Sort of on a on a baseline level. You want to give people their best shot. You know you wanna give people sort of the opportunity to to do and be their best and sort of say their truce know. I don't ever really walk into an interview i'm gonna get this person in. Of course. I sincerely want to know what's happening with this person And then you know. I find that the ark of an interview is always. It's useful to consider in the. You wanna warn people up. Like i don't start with the hard questions. I know that i'm going to get there. But i wanna give people a sense of who i am what i care about my interview style. A you don't always have a long time to make people feel that sense of safety. I mentioned But i like to sort of start in that way and then once i feel like we've created a little bit of You know you start sorta digging into the stuff. That's perhaps harder. And i try to do that in in a way. That's gentle but straightforward in and fair and at the end of the day. I was thinking that quote from almost famous Where lester bags philip seymour. Characters says you know you have to be a honest and unmerciful and not that i wanna be brutal towards any of my subjects at all but obviously also wanna tell a complete story that's compelling to readers in sometimes that involves interviewing people that are outside of the artists list of New to talk to you But generally i think just being straightforward about what the intentions are in. You know i. I've certainly messed up in that way. I've certainly i've learned. I've learned lessons along the way of like the best way to do an interview and get information from people. And i'm still learning you know. Of course i feel like yeah just sort of going in with with best intentions knowing that you wanna tell a story that that services industries a hem. Yeah yeah of course yeah. It's it's so interesting to me. Because for me at this point. If i'm talking to somebody who i don't know i can within five to ten minutes to talking to someone i can tell. At least you know okay. This'll be fine or okay. I'm in trouble here. Like what what gives you that feeling Well it's usually. I mean. I kind of tend to again like i'm such an amateur with this kind of stuff so i have not thought about the process of it nearly as much as i should but i think i tend to kind of try to try to go deep fairly quickly and see if they'll come along with me or not and if i can ask a couple you know semi probing questions off the bat not uncomfortable but just you know maybe deeper philosophical whatever stuff that and they'll go along with it then i steal a lot more comfortable just being like all right there if it gets weird. They're okay with that and people that you you know like some people. Don't wanna people wanna talk about the stuff that's most interesting to them and sometimes that stuff is is the deeper. Stop you now. I think That approach i know i do. And what you just said is finding out what they want to talk about. I think is often a huge key. At least it has been for me because all sometimes i'll go in with an agenda and then realize zone. No that's not at all what they're interested in talking about. And then if we focus on that it's always way better sure totally totally and then also sometimes you have to talk about stuff that they don't wanna talk about. I think you have to do that more than me. A little bit league there are there are definitely. I think it's important during any interview to say. Hey what happened. I asked what do you what's important to you. What haven't i brought up blake Of course stuff that you're gonna miss or simply not know about or stuff spent on their mind you know us new absolutely i mean i so i have so many questions but i feel like before before we get there. I kind of want to set the set. The scene set the stage a little bit. So you know we mentioned you grew up in wisconsin and you eventually moved out to la where you've been for a long time now doing this career. But you know before that in wisconsin like what kind of a was it in green bay itself too pure wisconsin. Small suburb of green bay. Maybe ten minutes south. Yeah i because. I grew up in minneapolis. Like i know that named appear but i don't think i've ever been there. Yeah here's a college there. There's like a small liberal arts college so actually appears is known around the mid west at least for that reason. Boko little town on the river responded to grow up in one hundred percent. I'm really great. Live grownup in like true. Smalltown america like near farmlands. And sort of you know in a in a pretty innocent fashion. Yeah yeah i hear that. I think that's another mid west thing to like. There's nothing better than a midwest childhood in my opinion but you know in all of that so like small town ish midwest life what kind of what kind of interests did you have as a young kid and what was around you in the small town because if i hear small town i'm thinking you know limited cultural access. Sure i mean. How young are we talking. You pick anywhere from preteen. I guess Okay well i would say in nature just just by being here. That's kind of what we did. We were big camping family hanging out outside family going hiking family You know it's it's gorgeous here Skiing snowboarding in the winters But music really from an early age. My parents were super music. My mom and i were just laughing either day. Because i i get made fun of by by people that are from the midwest. I guess for being a fan of journey nice. Yeah well i took you to see you were. I was eight months pregnant. So if you like like my odyssey in the room. That's so what my mom always tells me a story she played willie nelson in the womb for me. And that's always like the touchstone. They're slowly thoroughly. So my point is super into music When to let shows music in the house like very much like in the seventies eighties classic brock play instruments or anything no no instruments. We weren't like a musical family in the sense that we made music. My brother is very talented guitar player. But the rest of us don't really do much and so I was always into music from a fan perspective. And just really. I mean you know we love what you love. I guess you don't necessarily know why that happens. But i was just absolutely fascinated by music from a young age. I remember riding my bike to the library and checking out copies of rolling stone. You know when. I was eleven or twelve in our. Yeah you know going to the shopco. Which is i guess. Like the local version of kmart and buying like the fuji's immunised education of lauren hill. In just sort of all of his early stuff that was like oh my god And so you know. Also in that time was really interested in books and reading and writing and i you know always sort of kept a journal and i'm always reading like i was one of those kids that were read at the dinner table. I would really kinda here. Yeah yeah you know whether it was you know the babysitter's club early on or you know. Whatever it turned into as i as i grew up i just always had a book and so for me not that i sort of put this idea together in my head like this at the time but for me writing was away into music in know like i couldn't play anything myself. wasn't necessarily Aspiration but. I knew that i could write. I had really really excellent luck with my english teachers in high school and they were super encouraging in just sort of Warm i chew leaders and so I was given the sense that i had a talent in that way. And so the two for me. Just really naturally merged. Was it the kind of thing where you were like more into music than the people around you. I would say that's true. Yeah i was one that. Would you know like leave school exactly when the bell rang at the end of the day because i wanted to drive down to oshkosh. Go see a band on a tuesday night road. When linked corralling my friends into seeing whatever local band was you know when we were just barely old enough to get in. Yeah i would say that i was. I was more into music than most people. I knew it was very much my my passion emissions of interest. I feel like that's that's the. The big indicator is when. Because i was the same way. And i know a million people like this where it's really when you start like curing just for your friends for no reason and kind of just a point yourself as the the cultural curator. That's exactly like. I've got the playlist. And i've got the mix cds and i you know. Got lime layer on my new laptop and let me show you what i found and let me the one whether you want me to or not. Good party the party in the basement. Fifty different copies of soldier. Boy crank labeled with different. Well i mean that's great. Was there any history in in your family whether it's your parents or somebody else of anything like this whether it's writing or whether it's involvement with music anything like that i'm not really no not really I think my mom. My mom is a good writer but in she always kind of wrote for herself. And i would say less than last. Could she was raising. Three kids My dad worked at the airport. My family owned the flower shop in town. I would say that my my grandfather who was very very close with my mom's dad was always into the arts We would go see the symphony here. In green bay we would go to broadway shows. We were in town. He you know. We took the bus to go see river dance in chicago. Like you was the one sort of getting me out Into intercultural stuff. And i found that i really liked the not only the content but the atmosphere in a i really love being the lobby of the cedar really loved like watching people during intermission I love this sort of like buzz of being at the show even when that show just the green bay symphony interesting. I just recently had busy. P the podcast and he was telling almost verbatim the same story of when he was a kid. His parents took him to the. I think it was the ballet. And he he was saying he loved watching the show but then he got somehow they also saw backstage and he was like more engrossed by what was happening back there. One hundred percent one hundred percent and to me as a kid like backstage was like i mean it might as well have been like oz you know. Truly incredible is happening back there. I'm sure as i got older. I was a teenager. Going to show is like i would always be the one. She's like you know after it was over. Run to the front of the stage and see if i could get a set list or guitar pink or if anyone would like left anything interesting on the floor. Lee lake cross the barrier into that world. He was happening back there. Yeah absolutely so all of this and as you're going through high school and you know interested in writing encouraged in writing clearly. There's a talent there a passion for it. We're like when does the thought of actually. Maybe this is something i can do for the rest of my life. Come into the picture is that then or is that later. That would take a while that. Yeah that that was definitely not until i got to la. I never had an idea of music journalism. As i'm gonna make this my career It was never that planned. I mean. I think that it was something that i was always just of doing however unconsciously just because it was what i was interested in eventually sort of what i was trained in our but i think you know when i when i got to college. I went to the university of wisconsin in madison That was a big deal in the sense that they were students. Newspapers sure so. I could write about music and i was very surprised or it was like it. Felt like it couldn't be true that they were gonna let me do that. My morning jacket. Cd like tell us what you think. It was like holy shit like okay. You know. it's like such a huge opportunity for me to get to do that Instead i wrote a lot for called the battle herald observed Better herald added out at still exists in. They let me do a lot And then you know that grew ensue. Internships in in madison intern at the wisconsin see journal after i graduated twenty five dollars a week but it was like super. It was exciting. I was really thrilled to be there and sort of still like shaq somehow that they would let me in the building and give me these opportunities. Yeah i mean. It's it's so interesting because i love what you're saying because this is just pure passion. You're talking about her to to hear you tell it. I mean it's just that you found this love early on in your life and found encouragement in it and access to it and and really just were able to kind of go for it in that way. I think that's a that's a beautiful thing i think. That's you know some people don't find that passion that early on you know what i'm in totally and that's you're exactly right like i was always just sort of following what i loved. I feel like you. You know you mean people that all over. But i think in the framework where i live in los angeles. It's like talked to people that On parties for living in. It's like they were the ones in middle school sending the invites or the people that make clothing like they were the ones with the shoelaces. I'd love when you meet people. That have always done what they're doing. Yes yeah there's like there's there's this beauty. It's almost like a renaissance like like craftsman. Kind of thing you know like a trade almost like you belong to the promoter guilds the storied legendary promoter so going through college and doing all of this. I mean it sounds like you were just on the track. So what happens when college ends. And there's not so much of a define track right yeah Like i said. I had that summer after interning at the paper so that was definitely helpful because it kept me in that world I waitressed after college for a year state madison. And i didn't. I didn't know. I didn't know what i was doing. I didn't know there was no big music scene to speak of in in madison I was definitely going to allow shows and then I randomly decided to move to la About a year. After i graduated college. I had a few friends out there and the house wasn't even for work originally no not at all not at all i was just like i don't really wanna be in madison anymore I love it there. I love the people there I think it would have been easy to never leave. I didn't want that to happen. I sort of you know. If i even if i couldn't consciously said that at the time. I think that that was a fear that i had. I had this degree that i had just earned nina taken out a lot of loans to get so like i. I would like to go somewhere and try to use. This is a journalism degree. I assume to journalism school I moved to la. i. I really didn't know anybody. I know the city at all. I never been there. I'd never been west of colorado her while yes my mom and my sister and i drove out in like ninety eight buick nice and it was just one of those classic sort of life defining road trips. You know where. We saw the mountains in vegas vegas We just had. That sounds great. Who's great it was really special and it was really like to go and have the support of my family in just sort of feel held in that way like tangentially. I feel like people that are that are from small towns like myself. You know an guests just personally speaking like knowing that i had a place to come back to in a family. That was very supportive. Kind of made it possible for me to go and try to do what i wanted because i knew that if they hit the fan you know. If it didn't work it would be like get back in the car and just drive back and it wouldn't be that big of a deal that's really helpful to know and yeah i mean. I had a similar situation for sure. When i was when i was leaving. And yeah that it helps hugely so. Let's real quick. Let's stop the the of that story for a second. Because i'm also curious for you at what point in this does dance music. Enter the picture. Hey yeah that's a good question because Dance music was not in my frame of reference at all wild. I was living in wisconsin Play by moby when it came out but beyond that like i. it just didn't have the exposure. Yeah you were going out to the ribs and the cornfields there. I wasn't. I wasn't on lately too young but there was stuff going on that. I just totally missed. Because it just wasn't in my life. I was very Like rock music I was into the white stripes radiohead in my morning jacket. I said and so dance. Music really became a thing. When i when i moved away and i would say that i was very fortunate in terms of timing One time is this. When did you move out there. This is the fall of two thousand seven. That's sweet there. That's perfect for me. So i got a job Hostessing had the palm like a restaurant downtown. All across the country like wealthy people eating lobster day road. One night i was. You know people people the hostess and instead of giving me cash. The guy was like well. I have a ticket to the show. That's happening Moun- allowed you wanna go and it was showed. My space is hosting justice. Just very quickly. That's the most. La thing to tip somebody with a concert figure. I know i know you would like it was incredible. It was i was so ed job was really exciting for a lot of reasons. But just sorta the stuff that you would get like foods perks. Good and i mean. I went to the i n With a with a friend from work and we saw justice and it was the cross to our. Yeah and it's like well if you wanna talk about a good way to introduce dance music to somebody who's a fan of rock music. Well exactly that exactly. That's such a good point because it was like at. I don't you know i couldn't move. Probably said that at the time but it was just like it was heavy heavy justice in relatively small club And so you know. I was i would say my interest was was peaked. And then in the fall of two thousand nine Might roommate one of my best friends. She and i went and lived in big sur for a little while am and the people that we met there were very much insight west coast based Pretty lights who's from colorado but The memo said base nectar although. He's obviously become problematic. that world And so i. I would say that was my my more That's when i really got it just sort of living in a culture where it was played a lot going to like really great parties in like the cliffs and canyons big servers just like base music all night and through that experience. I got in shoe like the festival world in in california in the west coast which is like its own special thing as i'm sure you know like lightning in a bottle and symbiosis than you know of course eventually burning man and so i mean by the time i you know. I travelled for while after that by the time. I came back to la. I started really writing for mostly. La weekly at the time dance music was fully happening. It was like you know. The the edm boo was on was happening in la la. I couldn't see it as it was happening. But i was truly in the right place at the right time Just covering the the right music and l. a. Weekly kind of needed someone to to do that because it was such a thing and there were certainly like. I can name many other wonderful writers who are very good friends who are also started covering that world but la weekly gave me a lot of opportunities. And i you know. I was again real. They were letting me. And so. I saw a lotta shows in really got a lot of education in that i would say where in earnest might journalism career in music really began what. How did you get linked up with l. a. Weekly in the first place. Because i think that's that's oftentimes a lot of people's question is how do you. How do you make that first connection. you know. obviously you've been writing sort of continuous labor. What it sounds like. But how were they aware of you. How did you link up with them. I had i had decent clips. Because before i traveled Briefly worked to the la times covering bars and clubs. They declared bankruptcy in the day. I started ed's it was perfect. We've made it work. I feel like that's just a metaphor for journalism in general right now. I don't think we in. I can't give you the exact time but we didn't get paid for a few months into work like i still was like super happy to be there after we all got laid off there. I did some entertainment reporting Hollywood dot com so it was like the twilight orion asher. Did that a little bit so by the time. I got back to la. Like i. i had a degree in journalism. I had good clips. I was just really eager and i. I was happy to do stories for like fifty bucks. And god's who show right all night and published in the morning. Yeah that makes sense. I mean even before all of that. Because i think i asked this question a little wrong is even before all of that was it. You approaching outlets to start with like was there something. What was the first thing where where you didn't have a connection and you made that connection a question so my first my first you know shot in the dark was the la times. I was working at the restaurant. The palm at the time knew that i wanted to write about music and so i wrote i would say a color flea you know i wrote an email that i thought was entertaining in. I would say that that's a good tip for any writer in trying to get in anywhere like if you're if you're cold calling in editor right something that's gonna stand out in so i remember her writing me back and saying that's the way to get an editor's attention. I have no idea. Like what i said but i i said well and as it turned out they were hiring wasn't a fulltime job but they were hiring a bar and club editor and so i got that job just by a random email That's where my career started. I love that and it's so interesting to me because you know when you talk about moving to la in two thousand seven immediately where my head goes. Oh blog house years. Like i. You know i i was going to la. At that time. I know what that was but it sounds like in some ways. You sort of sidestepped the blog explosion. That was driving a lot of that culture at the time. That's probably fair to say. Yeah i was writing digitally of course like for for the time it was the times had a publication called metro mix their younger demographic insert And i eventually started my own blog. But i don't. I can't say that i was like a member like i wasn't a card carrying member of that log house contingent right right. Yeah that is a separate gill. They think they they did and do incredible work and it was something that i always felt. i admired and i had an awareness but i felt like not quite cool. Enough somehow. juristic they were doing Yeah no that's really interesting to think about. You know for me. I mean blogs were are so tied to sort of my rise as a professional musician. And i owe so much of my early career to blogs and that kind of support and that community and for me. I'm just gonna say how i feel this. I'm not ascribing this to you but to me it's been a little sad in the last however many years to see what has happened to the state of blogs especially in in dance music Because i think the level of journalism there for a lot of them not all of them but for a lot of them has dropped significantly. I think a lot of them have turned into somewhat of click bait outlets at this point and it kind of bums me out. Because i sort of i sort of feel like there's less and less reliable outlets for for content about dance music. That actually digs a little deeper. Yes yeah i mean. I know that there are a lot of people out there doing their best in resource wise. It's a tough ho man because it's it's hard to get money you know at the at the day people that the canon will work for very little money. They're doing great work but there's not a lot of money to put into into stories and people that can do it just for the passion of of running a blog like some people do but that's not an easy thing to do either. So yeah it's interesting. I mean. I guess what i'm getting at is how do you. How do you feel about the current state of dance music journalism. Because it's something. I go back and forth about but it's very easy for me to sort of sit in my corner and take potshots so much more much more curious. Where for you you know. Operating in this sphere every day does it. Obviously budgets are tight we all know that media and journalism is fraught in general in the world. Right now how do you feel like have you. Does it feel like it's changed in the last few years. How do you feel about the just. The general state of affairs i think. What a lot of blogs you very well is made pick up on the really granular news. god's a great one new tracks remixes social media rumors twitter fights this is stuff that you can reliably find every day on you know many of the bigger dance blogs i think demonstrates sense of passion. Yup these writers really care And i think it also demonstrates Does well in sort of the the traffic ecosystem in so while i would say that you know instantly there's a lot of breed in indepth features to being done like you be portal. You know. I do think that we're doing good work. Billboard oh absolutely. Yeah and i mean. There's so many names. I could call out there to doing create work. You know on the on the smaller bogside to absolutely. Yeah but i mean in terms of great indepth reporting features. That's not what i go to the blogs for the and i'm not saying they're not doing that But i'm i think the big strength like i said is just like you know what did scr ilic stay on instagram. That might indicate. He has a new collaboration coming out next week. Like the not super you know particularly for someone like me who can't take in all of it every day like that's very helpful. Yeah absolutely i mean. That's an interesting question. Actually i think it ties back into the timeline. We were pending. Second go for you. Was there a moment when you started to feel like you could go. After stories reliably rather than having stories assigned to you. I would say that with freelancing. It's always kind of both particularly in the early days. Obviously you're pitching more because you're you're not at a known entity as much And so was there a moment when it shifted working for publication. Okay let's say. Let's use la weekly again just because like you know particularly at that time like people want to be in that publication on the website lake in so a lot of stories did come to me like it wasn't hard to ask for an interview to get it. Which was amazing road was like i got to go to you. Know all the coachella. All the hard summers in anything that i wanted to go to go to which is obviously a huge education and then i worked at insomniac for about a year and a half almost two years. Okay writing for them as well yes. They had a content site at the time. And so i was one of the the writers and editors sort of managers of that component of the website. Which was really incredible on an educational level because i kind of find the curtain producer promoters and i was working forward Argue the biggest dance music promoter in the world to in twenty thirteen fourteen fifteen and so again like the timing was incredible. Incredible because i got to see sort of the height of that moment from stage perspective and so It was really learned a lot about how the business works. And how these things come together. And i got to see. We went to puerto rico. We went to the uk we went to all the abc's it was. It was incredible travel experience as well. i worked at the port after that and so i was on. Staff is my point with insomnia for like you know. I'm not pitching. Because i i work. And then we got laid off from report. And i think. That's when i really started hustling harder as a freelancer and started getting some like really. I felt really good bilandzic. I loved writing for red bull. Music academy their editors were excellent. I started writing for the guardian. At that time. I started writing writing for noisy thumbs advice. Which are you know. Sadly both gone through their their general courage and so Yeah freelancing his heart and you really have to hustle and you really have to sort of work every day to to find work but that was a really good time for me. Just to sort of expand my repertoire. I was writing about more than dance music. But obviously that was the focus. Given where i'd come from. Yeah so that's an interesting question about process to me because you know often times. I'll talk to a producer but you know what is you. Sit down to write a song. What is that look like and for you. How does an idea for a story start like are you. Do you sit down and write every day or however often you write like regardless of whether there's a story going on not maybe shit. I think you're doing all right. Thank you How does the story start. It's you know it's a good question go. It's also like an impossible question. I know i mean. I would save for me. He would two ways that i can think of off the top of my head and one is during an interview ordering research you just you just hear it. You know like the subject says something. That's the lead iger or that's the same in everything sort of just unfolds from there Because i can't really right. Until i have that until i know what the intro is until they know what the nut graph is until you know until i know what i'm trying to say And so when that happens it's like a little bit of magic in obviously makes the job easier More often than not. It's like sitting down to to right to write and then staring at the wall for like two or three hours. Just trying to come up with that thing. You know like what is the. What are we saying here and it also involves coming through transcripts in researching just eventually trying to throw at the wall and seeing what sticks eventually Substrate you just have to start in a deadlines are real in. Not every story can be like a precious baby that takes all your time like sometimes. You just have to use the best idea that you have at that moment. Yeah oh absolutely. I mean that's the famous quote and i never remember who said it but you know you can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. That's right yeah exactly exactly. That's a good You just you just gotta do it and trusts Like now i'm doing this for a reason like i. I've been doing this for a while. Like even an idea. That doesn't feel super sexy. Must be okay. Well there's also the other the other quote. I throw around on this podcast all the time and one day i really should remember who said it but is great. Art is never completed only abandoned de absolutely. I had a really great interview with lane eight. This was years ago and he said something. I'm not going to be able to quote him directly but he said something to that effect of lake it at a certain point. It's just got to be done and you're gonna go back and listen to it years later. You're gonna read it years later and it's gonna be like oh i could have fixed this. That could use another word. I mean i still think. I wake up in the morning and i think oh my god that story that i wrote. Here's ago like. I should've used this word instead of that. Do you read your old stuff. I do. I do from time to time I was having a conversation. With one of my editors earlier today has mafia for example. I've read that story. Seven hundred times but then it publishes and i can't read it like once it sort of flips that switch becomes sort of public domain like Can't look at it anymore on. I'm not exactly sure what the psychology is behind that but it takes me about a month or two to come back around to stuff and usually to be like that was okay. we did. Sometimes i'll dig into the stuff on my website or whatever i find You know it. It's good each story has a host of memories associated Aren't well so because you you were just saying this. I mean when. I knew we were going to come talk. You know i've been. I've been main lining a lot of your writing over the course of the last couple of days and i. I love your writing. But i think there really is. There's some kind of cohesive style or i don't know if it's just the way that you write or the way you put sentences together. And i don't even know if this is really a question as much as statement that i think in the same way that you know musicians. We love have a signature sound. It really did feel like you have a signature voice in writing. And i do. Is that something you can cultivate. Is that something you feel like you have cultivated or is that something that only you can hear from somebody else and be like i guess. Yeah it's interesting question. Thank you for saying that. I don't think it's something that i consciously cultivated of like i'm gonna do with katie bane voice now i just i write how i write. You know you make music how you make music We become better over time. I really tried to call things. Like i see them. And i'm a sucker for details on the sucker for mood and seen in who was wearing. What what did i overhear like. How long was the line for the bathroom I feel like there's so much juice and there's so much storytelling that can be done in those little thing. And so that's something that they do consciously do Because i feel like people also really. I like reading that. Like knowing what sebastian grosso was wearing when we had dinner like just i love seeing and so You know in terms of voice like maybe there are elements to it. That i can't put my finger on but i would say that something that i do work on is just like putting as much of the detail in it as i can get. That makes total total sense. You had this. I have to quote you just one time because you just had this one banger. Sentence that like encapsulated something. I've been trying to talk about for years and it was. It was basically just. The definition of edm is short sense. All euro was. Edm is about joyful celebration in the face of conflict. And i was like god. Damn that's a that's just a beggar of a sentence. It was so perfect. I don't know. I just wanted to shout that out. I was like that's such a perfect way to talk about the the joy that we all have in this kind of music and also encapsulating that there's like sort of an absurdity to it and that we all kind of you know there's like an unspoken thing of like this is kind of funny but we also care about it a lot. I was like that is so perfect. Well thank you. And i think that your interpretation of it is exactly right where it's like we. We know that it's sort of goofy laugh at ourselves. But it also moves us in moves me and i've had really incredible life experiences to that music in that world and Yeah i think that was probably from one of the msci stories you nailed it. It absolutely was. Yeah which you know obviously gives it a greater a greater meaning. But yeah i mean i could talk about the ultra all of edm all day you birth. That can be part to the broadcast. But i mean you mentioned of each. And i would love to. You've written so many stories and talked to so many different people. But i'd love to just throw a couple of different names at you and whatever memories. Come to mind about right talking to them. Yeah yeah we'll we'll lightning round kind of thing. I don't know. I don't know what i'm doing but you mentioned what was that. Like meeting him interviewing him. You spend some time with him. Was it multiple stories. I never never met met him. Wow i interviewed him a few times always over the phone. Okay yeah and so. I would say that you know of course was covering him as he was happening. You know he was just like a huge force and so we did a few phone interviews. And then i you know i. I definitely interviewed aloe black when we came out. Reviewed quite a few of each shows during that time I would say the you know. I started digging more into his world. He passed away And so you know that was a big deal it. It was very sad and it's something that still makes me sad From time to time and it was an emotional experience writing stories. And i really wanted to do right by him Particularly with the story for spin the cover story when the posthumous album came out. I said it's easy to make fun of idiom in a of people. Do and i and i get it. He's to make fun of that world like it's like character very easy. Yeah very easy. I wanted to show him the respect. He deserved as an artist. And the respect you know that i even cultivated for him in do reporting of the stories of lia. We're talking about the guy that center like a pretty goofy scene but let's also remember that the most everybody that ever worked with him called him like an actual genius like they're they're reasons for that and let's unpack that and show them. The genius also exists in this world. That is easy to write off That's beautiful did you know his passing and then writing these stories and reflecting did it make you look back on those phone conversations any differently i mean. I think that you always be you know. Certainly in tim's case we became more aware of what he was going through You know obviously indications as it was happening in after he after he died. I would say that my sense of him in those interviews is was not even of him as much as what his schedule was like in. Just be trying to schedule it and getting him on the phone and his his time crunch and you could tell that he was on the move as he was talking And so maybe in a piece for the guardian Get a great sense of tim as a person well talking to him. I got a sense lifestyle until after Where i was working with people. He was very close with that. He came out as a personality. And i think that makes sense given what he was going through the fact that he was you know by all accounts. Like a pretty significant introvert. Yeah you're private. Private person wants speaking of getting a sense of their lifestyle. You wrote this piece about dip blow. I think last year somewhat recently that the delved into you know his his crazy lifestyle. The the whirlwind. That is that whole thing. And i know you've written about him before and maybe talk to him before. What would memories come to mind. If you think about you know talking to and writing about diplo that was my first time interviewing him I had like you said britain Many shows stats in major lazer. My gosh that story was the cover. Twenty nineteen dance issue. And i would say that. The perception i got him was that he was really honest in the sense that he didn't put on a show for me. I went to his house. He wasn't there You showed up eventually. He has a little bit late. He apologized for that job. But i you know. I think that being in the position that i'm in people kind of tried to sometimes put on a show for me Try to be like maybe slightly brighter and shinier than they are. And i would say that he was just very much himself. He sat down at the table. He was ready to do the interview. We did the interview we went in the studio and it was very it was very business and i think that that was really perfect. Because that's that story was about was the business of being him in sort of how he moves through the world and i appreciated that He was definitely sort of occupying. That when i was there with them. Yeah that's a really interesting way to put it. And i i loved that story. I've known i've known diplo for many many years. And i thought that story really nailed the the life that he leads in a really profound way. And you're absolutely right that. Yeah it's i mean for him. You know the this is. I've had him on the show a few times and i always ask him. You know it's like you're never alone man leg. You're never there's another like how do you ever relax. And he claims that he is alone. Sometimes but i still don't really believe it. I loved that. That whole story. And i thought i just wanted to hear about that experience because i think your perception of it is pretty dead on. I mean it was a house full of off the interview. It was very unusual. We did the interview with like four people sitting around his kitchen table. Which for me is okay. Let's do it That story was also interesting. Because it came out when legitimately the day that the pandemic gut really serious and so the whole crux of the story was like diplo is forever on the was a little bit bittersweet that level. But you know it was a pleasure to talk to everybody on his team and to see how they do it and also billboards i ever centerfold which i was. You know really. I didn't know that all right. Well i'm sure. I'm sure he is very happy that it was the first centerfold. I'm not even kidding. I'm sure he's extremely happy about her. But okay so let me. Let me ask you this question. Instead of just running down a list here has been anyone you interviewed like if we take we take the low example and cast it against another story britain another prison. You've talked to you anyone. You've interviewed where you made a stronger connection than you. Were expecting to something. Where god very very deeper personal or went in a way you didn't expect kind of off the bat Question against this one's coming to mind because it's relatively resent. I think anyone that speaks to him. Kind of tends to feel this way but quarter robinson was like a delights and very much very honest in. His work is very personal. Last albums very personal came from sort of personal. Strife kind of place in a lot of sort of you know human development stuff. But you know i got off the phone or zoom with him and it was just like a personal exceed in world war. I want i. I'm rooting for you Is like you know. I think what i wrote on instagram. Like when i post zoya just like. I'm rooting for this person. Like you just want this person to to win. Because he seemed so honest and he opened up so deeply and The music means so much. You know. And i know that it Everybody of course I think that he was in a singular situation just because it had been so long since the release of worlds in you know he had been under a lot of pressure and so Yeah i wasn't necessarily surprised by it but he was one where i got often. You know like two two thumbs on a plus a bless. How did the. I've talked on here ad nauseam about how the pandemic you know. Just threw a wrench in everybody's life. You know touring and all that how. How did the pandemic affect your work like what what changed for you in this last year chains allow chains. Obviously the focus of our coverage changed a went from like parties in going out. This is alive events driven genre to Were at home. And what is alive events driven genre. Do when you can't go out and so for me it was You know. I wanna stay challenge but i'll say learning experience. I just put the positive spin on it yet because i. I'm not you know. Maybe ironically given the jarrah cover like i'm not the tech savvy is percents. Sure i'm not the most like engaged with tech. So's like ireland. What is live streaming. What is to wish. How are people doing things like. What are these new technologies that we all need to adopt really quickly. And so i got a crash course in all of that stuff and how it worked i mean i think we all learned collectively. I was gonna say. Don't feel bad because it definitely wasn't just you. I know plenty of super nerdy Sin dj's who had no idea what to do with twitch sure yeah and it was just like i mean we were all learning at the same. Time is their money to be made yet. Another good question in Where is my fan base. Do i have more fans now. Because people have to leave their houses like it was. Just you know it's it sucked obviously And for other people certainly more than me. But i think it was also as a journalist really really interesting moment to sort of ask questions that had not been asked before because the circumstances had not existed in this way before like there was a whole new it was a whole new terrain and we didn't go to the office like everybody else it was it was sort of an isolating experience The news a lot of days wasn't great in in moments. It felt like a slog for sure. But like i said i. I've come out in a much better place than a lot of people some. I'm grateful and it's fine and I know more about many things that i would not know about having not had that experience sure. Of course i mean there was a lot of talk i think especially in the first few months of locked down and quarantined. Oh this is A reset for the industry and everyone can refocus and we can change things and you know all this. I think there was a lot of big talk about a lot of change in the industry that some of which i feel like i've seen some evidence of others of which i have not but it's something i wanted to talk to you a little bit about because when you first took over billboard dance which win win was that exactly. It was june of twenty nineteen. Okay i remember it. Maybe not exactly like that day. But i remember when you did because i started noticing. All of this really like i feel like the tone of the coverage changed a bit when you stepped in there and all of a sudden there was all this interesting stuff. I remember there was like an early piece on kyw. I'm probably to mess up. I think it was about club. Music like you're talking to maybe. Dj slink Oh yeah thing and just generally like some some genres. Some people sounds that i think are usually underrepresented or sidelined. All of a sudden. I was seeing them on billboard dance and i thought that was amazing. I still think you're doing a great job with it but this is all to say in the pandemic. I think a lot of people were like. Oh you know. Let's let's elevate represented people. Let's change these lineups all that sort of thing and Yeah i don't know if that's happening yet. But i kinda wanted to take your temperature on on the idea of basically you have a big platform. You have some influence in what you do. What is that. what is that line of lifting up underrepresented people and sounds at verses. You know putting out content. That you know is is about famous names and things that need to be written about nine. Yeah i mean. I think that that became a particularly interesting challenge during the pandemic. Just because i didn't have any or as many writers to rely on and i really have an incredible group of contributors who have really deep knowledge of many different styles of dance so it felt like there was a moment where i was like. Okay i need to like make all of these decisions myself and i you know. I don't think any one person does know every note in cranny of the dancing like so intimately and obviously it's important to me to to be inclusive and to be diverse and do not just show people the easiest stuff there is show because you know like the biggest deejays in the world have the the biggest publicists You really do have to dig to find stuff. That's not of the mainstream billboard is also an interesting case because if we look at the billboard dance chart that stuff is being typically pretty mainstream roses which is great. There's a place for all of it and my my ideas always been like. Let's just do everything. Let's include everybody and that became harder to do during the pandemic. Because i just didn't have as many as many people with resources so i did my best. I can't say that every day was perfect But i would say you know. I think there are two separate questions here of like. Have i noticed shifts in the wake of the pandemic young and sort of. How did we try to be inclusive. Have we tried to be inclusive. And you know it's it's definitely something that i keep at the forefront and i just try to do as much of both as is possible on a on a workload bandwidth level which makes total sense and i just love hearing you say. It's so simple that you can do both. And why don't we just do everything for some reason. I think that just doesn't compute to a lotta people but when you put it that way. It's like why not do that. I mean he. There's there's there's joy to be found in david data's music and there's joy to be found in dj's links music. And i know that like those of those do producers. Make me feel something in like. They're both worthy. If given the chance to read about them like people do care in something that i think about is like trying to not necessarily be cool. It would really be easier. Perhaps seductive to just try to do like all of the coolest staff whatever that means to you but that's not necessarily representative of what's going on either like we covered the big stuff we cover the cool underground stuff we you know we cover truly as much as as much as we can. And that's really my my guiding principle. And i you know i get shit sometimes. Hey why'd you feature this person And it's because they're there and like you might not like it but people do. I see the numbers exactly. Oh you know. I could we. Could we do better. Of course we can always do better. And i'm i'm always trying to do better but really that's like my guiding principle is like invite everybody to the party. It's i love that so much this is. I don't know if you wrote this headline. But i believe this is your story i saw. This headline is just like up. It which was gay. Black men helped create edm. Why do straight white men dominate. It now was the headline man. I i very very on board here. Yeah and that you know that story. We i did when i was still a contributed to. I wasn't there fulltime but you know watching heartbeat everyday with shows like how many people are reading any given sorry any given time link. That story still does well consistently. And i think the headline definitely helps. But i think it's also just something where it's like you look at the dance role in your the the question. Yeah no it's very weird. I mean i have a million theories about it. But i think part of it is especially in america. I don't think anybody does their homework whether it's dance music fans whether it's newer younger artists. Any of that. I think for some people like dance. Music started at dead mouser dance. Music started at. You know whatever it is def- bonk but yeah. I think that that's for me something. I'm always yelling about is just like we gotta we gotta do our homework because you go back far enough and it's like oh all the big songs now are based off of songs that you know. We're or minority. People made the crazy thing where it's like a like. This is the sample a massive sample in that sample Sample and it's just like you know if you're not doing what we do. Do people have time to do homework. Maybe not so. I guess it's up to do that and share with people to a certain extent. I mean do you. Do you feel like that is your job like i. You know. I guess this is like we do what we do. Because we're passionate about it but you know when you think about your work. Is there something you hope people get out of it. Is there something that's important to you to convey and kind of a more existential sense That's a good question I guess that's probably not something that i think about every day but that's probably good long-term vision Like i said you know just just showing as much of it as as i can as we can in in a very big and diverse world was actually diplomat during the interview. Who said to me. I don't think it made it in the story. But he said the dance music. People aren't people you know you. Have you have drum based every year. And they're very different from mainstays here in like you can't you can't call that one world and i think about you know we do our friday roundups of the best new music in comical to me sometimes just how different some of these songs are you know. And i and i love it. I love the opportunity to be like. Here's you know. Here's a new grizz track. And here's something. From fred. Again or the blessed madonna or whomever were pretty disparate. Anything that's cool in. I also think that it's You know a unique challenge just because there is in terms of volume so much. Yeah you're absolutely spot on with all of that. I mean it makes me wonder you know we talk about inclusivity in representation in dance music. And i think that's. I'm glad that that's a bigger part of the conversation. Right now but out of curiosity does does that get talked about in journalism. I assume like most fields have some version of this issue. But like in your community is that is that a thing. Like i remember. I had. I had valerie leon here a long time back and i love valerie and we were talking about the fact that yet often times when she was starting off like she was the only woman in the room and that sort of thing but it i have no visibility into the journalism world. Some kind of curious like is that thing for you and has that evolved over time since you've been doing this you mean in terms of being inclusive in terms of actual the writers the writers themselves for sure for sure and again like it's it can always be better. It's definitely something that i that i keep in mind. Just because if the if the writers versi the music selection in the stories aren't going to be diverse either you know and so Now that i'm getting into a phase you know as dependent. Mika shifting in circumstances shipping commission more stories from writers outside of billboard like that's something that definitely important to me and so yeah. We talk about it. Yeah it's just interesting. I mean even for you like coming up. Was it a boys club at a certain point was it was it ever did it. Ever feel exclusionary. I guess what i'm asking. I personally never felt excluded Is it a boys club But did i feel like. I had like the guy was being. I was having a harder time. Because of being i can't say i'm lucky to say that i didn't experience that could be true to notice. Assures that wasn't my experience. And i would say that i also had like only amazing women around to like i very rarely was the only woman in the room lake in insomniac works with incredible women be poured. I worked with incredible in in terms of freelancing. Just the the friends and the colleagues like powerhouse. Women's that's great to hear. I mean was you know like even taking gender out of it. I'm curious for you. did you have any any early. Inspirations or maybe early mentors that That you looked up to as far as like i. You know whether. It's i would love to do that someday. Or whether it's just. I would love to write like this someday. Yeah i mean definitely. I have my my idols. In terms of writing style and accomplishments. I mean i think joan deion is like the north star for me. It's not necessarily a tone that always works. And yeah yeah. Ask my favorite or you know mike. My actual we hard. I mean Katie weaver who writes for Should know that it's cheeky esquire. She took a great amion incredible profile writer. Her justin bieber repeated from twenty fourteen fifteen. She did a piece on the rock. she is just like when i read her stuff on lake That's how i know it's good is when you get mad when it's so good that's right. There are few people actually get a little bit upset. But that's good. That's good healthy. Competition is is always great. I mean you did a bieber pieces well or it. I didn't even peace in march. Yeah he was on march cover. What i mean. What was that experience like. Just out of curiosity 'cause he's always so much has been written about him that i feel like it must be hard to kind of reinvent the wheel with him. Ya i mean so much has been written about him and also he says so much about himself and i mean that in like the best hospital where you have like this docu series. You have his his documentary like any. He seems to really go there in terms of talking about his personal life and his his history and sort of what. He's gone through what he's going through in his therapy in like he truly did strike me as a pretty open guy so for me. The question was aware go just bieber. When justin bieber is already told us everything And so i think the the the greater question then became like. Why are you doing this. Why are you telling us everything like you don't have to do this anymore. And you don't even have to apologize anymore like you're you're tmz. Days are pretty well behind you. Why are you doing this to yourself below. Yeah why why and you now again like. You only get to talk to artists for an hour. Two or three or four. If you're lucky right so you know. I always take it with a grain of salt lake. I'm not really getting to know the person in that our you know But i think. I'm a pretty good judge of character and he really did seem genuine in him. Saying like because people can kinda learn from my story because you know what i went through was was visible and Not always sexy perhaps in like there there is wisdom that i can share through that and he seems really genuine in dakhil wrote. Yeah yeah it's i mean i don't know is there any Alcohol wrap this up in a second but in all of these names. We've mentioned all of the interviews you've done oftentimes with really high performing people. Has there been any commonalities. You've noticed any threads that seem to run through a lot of these people. That's a really good question and one that i've never really considered you drive. Work ethic you know is probably the most obvious oftentimes for me. It's it's almost like you know the they're running from something land. I don't mean that in a negative way but it's almost like they can't stop moving because of some That's right a nice. Yeah like a good example of that in that was sort of a question. Primary question that story tube like. Why are you doing this way. And it's like he. He can't stop any wants to you. Know he doesn't want to right exactly. Yeah yeah yeah. That's the thing it's like there is no 'off-switch like the switches. Just been removed. Yeah yeah it's very very address. I love i love about this kind of stuff. Because that's part of the fun of being in this world is like all the weird and interesting people you run into red. Oh one hundred percent you know people are like. When are you going to write a book. And it's like i you know i don't wanna i don't wanna blow people spot but yeah you definitely you know like i said when i was fourteen standing in front of the stage like a sugar ray concert wondering what was happening backstage like i got to find out. You know to certain extent right and it's it's it's definitely lead to some adventures man well on that note. i'd like to give a little space just to talk about what you're working on right now. Obviously the big swedish house mafia story just dropped and will link everybody to that and send them to to everything you've done but what are what are you doing right now. What are you working on. It doesn't have to be like what's the next thing that's dragging. What's exciting for you about what you do read. Now that's a really good question I would say this is like weird. Because it's like a plug or something but dark side has a new album coming out on friday. And so i interviewed david harrington from the band and they're like one of my all time favorites so i'm really excited about that Nicolas jaar who's obviously like well known much beloved as a producer. And so i'm excited about that. I'm a little daunted by it. Though is a daunting to write about accent. You like really stupid instead. I'm healthily procrastinating on that one Going on vacation or there you go now and i am super excited about that. Swedish has mafia cover stories. They require needed. Burn a lotta calories. And i'm happy to do it in. I'm always really grateful to it in. I'm now excited Gets turned my computer off mostly for two weeks soil. That sounds fantastic. Are there any. Are there any goals. You're working on right now whether it's career goals whether it's personal goals something. You haven't done yet that that you think about as thing you'd like to do at some point. Oh yeah okay. I mean i i do right like nonfiction and you know that stuff is not really been published but some that i do just for myself on side so long term. It would be super exciting for me if any of that stuff. I forgot published And it's not necessarily music related but it's something that the definitely is goal like we're kind of stuff like like essays you know travel essays personal essays. Weird you know. There's not a huge market for that kind of stuff. But i feel that. If i just keep writing them. Oh yeah it'd be come on like we're talking about dance music here weird ideas. Are you know or or ideas where there isn't a huge market. That's like my trade. You know yes. I love that. Yeah we'll see you know plan to use some of this trip. It's sort of focused on on that stuff Goals yeah i mean. We are going back to the office in september and so i'm excited to do some traveling and get out into the world in a way that i haven't been able to for a long time before you know we we go back. I don't know. I should probably exercise more championships. Certainly all she probably eat more salad. Dino seriously like i truly do think about how to make billboard's dance better and and more inclusive more reflective in so that is one of my goals as well. Yeah well that's that's a beautiful goal. I and i love hearing it. I'll ask you one last question. I'll let you get out of here. It's the question. I asked at the end of each one of these interviews. Unless there's anything else we haven't covered yet anything else. That's on your mind. I think he got it. You're a very good interviewer on another quite laugh. Thank you. I appreciate that. And the feeling is extremely mutual and the last question. It's a simple question kind of the first thing that pops into your head kind of question just looking for a time in your life memory a moment and it could be from any time when you in a single moment music. Really deeply affected. You really had a deep impact on you in that moment and it doesn't have to be a moment and there's really no wrong answer. Wow oh my god so many What's what's the first one. The first one i think of is You know i'd mentioned living in big sur and some of these these great parties we used to go to and one night. I think it was halloween. The speakers out so it was like full-on do already was was going off and it was like really heavy bass music in the power. Cut out or whatever happened happened and so suddenly silence in all the sudden like everyone just starts like you know and one of those great sort of percussive v- natural areas like sounds like the kind of thing you see in a movie but would never happen in real life happened banging on the floor and screaming and you know i know recorded but in the it sounded like you really want to just felt like so so primal and so immediate and so sort of. All of us connected. It was really really great. And then the museum which again and then everybody cheers. I mean that's just a as a beautiful moment. And and what i love about. That story is something. I always try to talk about all the time and never really get there. It's like i think that's no matter. What end of the business. You're on the people who stick around in music like that's what we're all chasing right. Is that magic moment of connection when everybody in the room makes something in the air together that no one knows what it is or how it happens like. It's those kind of things that at least personally like that's what i'm addicted to and why i'm still here. One hundred percent Actually just got goosebumps. That's why for here. that's why i'm here. Because i truly shannon lovett. I'm here because i love it and so it's like it's a great honor and it's like absolutely thrilling to sort of be a world that i'm so like deeply in perpetually infatuated by and that's the gratitude ever read. I think that's the other way to stick around in a business like this as you always after. Find yourself in that place of gratitude read. Yeah absolutely absolutely not helpful in the days. Feel harder of just like okay. Let's take a bird's eye of year and like look at where we're at in like it's all it's all good man well. I don't think. I have to stop here because i don't think i can be any more profound than you just wear but it has been a thrill in an honor to talk to you. I really appreciate you taking the time for having me. This is really really nice. And not as uncomfortable as i worried be. Okay good good good. I'm glad they you so much. All right take care by.

willie joy katie bane midwest green bay la Katie bane billboard magazine madison katie bain wisconsin katie philip seymour minneapolis lesko La weekly Lee lake benazir battle herald observed Better wisconsin see journal
211: Ape Drums (Major Lazer)

Back To Back

1:27:24 hr | 5 months ago

211: Ape Drums (Major Lazer)

"So this is back you. What's up back backers. This is willie joy. Welcome to the show. This is back to back. This is my podcast. How are we how we doing out there. How we feel in doing. I said doing already. I guess that's enough enough questions. You get the idea. Nice to be back with you I'm doing alright myself coming off my birthday weekend last week. Kept it pretty low key. A few friends outdoor dinner but it was great. I hope you had a great week as well and let me tell you right now. It's about to get a little better. My guest this week. Actually you know what last week. Let's talk about last week. I had walsea fire one third of major lazer and this week. I've got a drums on the podcast ape. Drums is here. The newest member of major lazer one third of the group along with wall see and dip blow and has been on the show a couple times too so we have now completed. The major lazer trifecta. This was a great episode. i love ape drums. He's got a brand new ep out right now. Called the sound boy ep. It's out on mad decent. It's got abrahams working with a lot of amazing dancehall artist. People like beam silent addie many more. And you'll hear us talk about it. In the conversation i it is back to classic abe drums vibes just updated for twenty twenty one Men it really made me smile when i heard it. I think it's going to do the same for you. So if you wanna go check that out if you want to follow abe drums. Keep up to date with him. There's a link in the description of this episode where you can go and do just that. We'll get into our conversation in just a second before we do. Quick pre announcement announcement update. Look guys i loot to this last week. There are some exciting happenings. Come into the podcast. You're going to see the official announcement up on my socials and probably actually put a very short little episode out here as well with the official announcement this week but suffice it to say i said this already on the last episode we are going live. You're going to be able to watch these conversations being recorded in real time you're going to be able to interact with it if that is what you would like to do one thing. You should really do if you haven't done. It already is common. Joined the back to back discord. There's gonna be another link in the description of this episode where you can find us there. Come join the discord guys. Come say hi to me m in there all the time and if you want to get involved with this show a little more you want to get a little interactive. That's going to be the best place to do it as well if you're music producer. There's a space where you can come share. What you're working on. Get some feedback from some other great producers link-up network all of that good stuff that is on the discord so come say hi to me there. All right so look for today with ape drums Man i'm really glad we got up to do this. Abrams is somebody. I've known for a long time but we never really were that close. It was always in passing. It was always just you know friendly acquaintances. But he's always been one of those people who just always leaves a great impression. You just walked away being like. Yeah i like that guy. That's a good guy. And i think this conversation Only goes to prove that he is in fact a good guy as well as an extremely talented musician. Really interesting story. He somebody who's really carved out a lane for himself executed a vision for what he wanted his sound to be that has led him All the way into being a member of major lazer and as you're about to hear he's got a lot of plans for the future as well. And i am looking forward to seeing them once again go follow abrahams. Hit the lincoln the description go grab the sound. Bp which is our right now on mad decent and look as things are opening backup. You know major lazer is going to be back on the road so go see him anytime. He's coming through your town but for now i just hope everyone out. There is having a good day. I hope he had a good week. I hope everything in your life is is going the way you want it to be going. Thank you all as always for supporting this show. Shout out to everybody who's been supporting week after week year after year. Look if you want to reach me on social media at willie joy or at-bat back pod on everything if you want to support this show. The best way to do that is to help us. Spread the word tags in your stories. Put up a tweet letting people know they should be listening. And of course. I'm always going to be interacting with anything. You guys put out there. I love to meet new listeners. Listeners i love to talk to everybody out there and just share in these conversations that i'm having everyone gets really the best part of doing this so much love to all of you. I hope you enjoy this episode. I know that i did. Let's get into a right now. This is me and abe drums backed to back. Let's go with trying to think about the last time i actually saw you. I feel like it was like probably like vega twenty fourteen in dc or some shit like that had like crazy yard or something. You're probably right. It's pratt can't believe it's been that long man it's wild i don't know and and then to see you now doing what you're doing with major lazer and i don't know i don't know the best way to jump into this but i i will say i was listening to your new ep. The sound way ep. It was cool to hear it not only because it was really good music but it also. It reminded me of those days. The ones you were just talking about the twenty fourteen. You know running around when all of this ship was new. You know what. I mean like when what you were doing. The idea of combining these caribbean sounds with modern. Dance music. back kind of thing. When i was like a new concept. You know what i'm in and it's still. I don't know if this is intentional. I don't know the way you work. But hearing the new ep as man like he saw it back. Then yeah. I mean i kind of i haven't really put music out in a few years because you know since twenty fifteen i was just constantly putting music releases and and i just kind of lost my. I guess like my perspective as a producer. A man like am i deejay says i don't ever play any of these remixes i don't play a lot of my songs because maybe i just don't they just don't fit in my set. Start making stuff that fits him. I said i gotta take a step back and you know. The music was changing so fast But yeah with this ep. Kind of just wanted to go back to to the roots of where i started in an also put on music that people expected for me People kind of You know they they hear eight drums and they. They put me as a caribbean dance. Music producer likely jones yet. They think he's makes dance hall in this this and that so i kind of just wanted to put this first ep back you know as basically the same stuff was making when i was starting but just updated you know what i mean and with new up and coming artists said i think are super talented and Yeah i just want people to know that this is kind of like the eight drum sound like the oj sound so the stars like dp my i e back i of just wanted to put out will be expected from in here man. A lot of great feedback. Oh one hundred percent man. I i love it and it. It feels fresh. It's it's funny how things go in cycles like that. You know like it feels fresh again. What you're doing and it's interesting to like you hearing you say you know doing like you on to give people what they expected. What they know the ape drums sound four. Is that kind of expectation like you said people here abrahams and they think oh. He does caribbean music. Do you like that. is that perception. You want people to have a your sound one hundred percent and i love it likes. This is at the beginning today. This is where. I got my foot in the door by making this kind of music. You know what i mean. I wanted to be different. I wanted to be someone. In das- music stood out and also kind of introduced a lot of people to this music that they might have not heard before you know what i mean or. They're not familiar with. Yeah so. I'm very i'd actually love that people kinda like you know. Look at me. As i mean how did that. Let's take it back a little bit. You know these these interests in these influences on you. When did how did it start because you are you from houston originally boehner as yeah. So what was what was childhood for you man. I mean what kind of what kind of kid were you. What kind of music was around. You like what what was going on locally that influenced you when you're like little kid It's crazy because growing up as a little kid. My mom i grew up. My mom raised us master. She was really into off kinds of music. Man like my whole family have a big family of let. Aunts and uncles have kids. So i grew up listening to all kinds of music All of my cousins play guitar So i listened to a lot of heavy metal growing up. I was in a lot of on my dad's side. I would listen to a lot of spanish rock. Oh yeah And then my mom she loved. You know mark anthony. She loves chardonnay. she loved to shore. She loves all kinds of music man. Like it's just it's crazy like she. She really was into an affiliate that has something to do with the know growing up and hearing all these different kinds of music Vastly is the the dj. Mentality i feel like that's going to build your dj brin from a young age yet. Masan selection of came early from me. I was like oh no good. Songs are good and which ones are not but Yeah like i never. I never really heard caribbean music. Or i never had like a like. I never grew up with the. I guess you could say but i did. I hear it when i was a teenager and there were youtube wasn't a thing yet. It was like e bombs world or some other thing Bomb sat out the bombs like they came across like a music video from like some jamaican artists. Think his name was like Rally bob and some of it was crazy. It was like at that time. It was like a crazy song. Like in jamaica was trending or something and just like from then on i was like you'll this is crazy and then you hear I would here like even in the nineties. There was some dance dance. All songs are kind of pop in and then obviously the mid two thousand early two thousands. Sean paul kind of took his you know he. He went crazy. Yeah so after. Those years got familiar with it at the research online. I was okay. Cool dance on music jamaica. Sean paw mr vegas and then you know a lot of american robbers doing music with those guys so i just kinda got involved in kind research online after that that makes sense. I mean it's interesting to hear you say well two things. I guess it's interesting that it wasn't something that was around you that it wasn't something that like all your friends. Were listening to because to me. That's that's that kind of thing where you know you find something in it just connects with you. That's a that makes sense. I can relate to that. Because i've had that experience with music where it's just like you find something randomly and it has this crazy impact on you and kinda changes the way your brain works. That's me is always a good indication that that's something you gotta pursue and follow you know rather than it just being kind of what everybody was in two and so naturally you you get into it. I mean was was there. Anyone around you who is also had those interests not at all and like now that you bring that up. I always felt in. Houston always felt like an outcast. Like now. Because i was like. Oh i'm different. Like because i was always into different stuff and i was always like i guess like just doing my research. I always just knew about way more stuff that was going on other than than people around me and like especially music are. Oh you guys go. You heard this what is like nobody knew anything was this is crazy. I feel like there's so much more out there. Nobody cares to know you know so. I always felt like the person man and i will now that i think about it. I do remember I used to buy cassettes. When i was a kid. Just based off the cover. Art nos on cassette called Plato gwen forty one and it was a dj named dj blade from puerto rico. Think he basically will put mrs so. This was a forty you first mexico too and it was just like two hour long Mixes a rare and dancehall and like nineties freestyle crazy. So when i heard that i was a man. These are all like crazy. Sounds the basically what he was doing. He was getting dancehall rhythms and getting latin To wrap will from. Which is a. Tom became so it was like kinda. Got a big big push into dance music from here in those rhythms. It'd be like crazy. What song is this. Beat and then also hearing like samples than an after that man. I i i was like listening to music differently than anybody else like kiddos like but i was still listening to all the samples drums and everything that producers like. Nobody listens to us like that. Yeah i remember that from early as they killed his snares craziest la- baseline. What's that little weird sound back. Oh so you were picking it apart early Early man. Yeah i mean. How old are we talking here. Like what age are you when you're listening to this. I'm gonna say i'm gonna say probably thirteen. Oh yes so. That's that's pretty young to be thinking that way man and it's interesting to think about the idea of those tapes and those ideas and especially you know early internet years to right where we don't have access to everything all right away like i don't know it's interesting thing about how different like levels of technological innovation change how artistic creativity works because back in that time you think about like a dj light bat. Just has this idea to take you know dancehall rhythms and puts latino artists over them. Or whatever it is and that you know that's mind-blowing at the time right because the only way you can get it out. Is these physical cassettes. And it's something that made its way to you. And then now. Today it's like the idea of combining two people from different parts of the world. You know that that seems normal right and it made. I wonder like i. I don't know. I don't really have an answer for this by wonder. Like what is what's the equivalent of that in twenty twenty one like what is. How do we be creative in that way. In twenty twenty one you know what i'm in Yeah a good question. Because i mean for me. It's like it's just so fast paced like you said people are just collaborating nonstop. Like now is just normal to collaborate from somebody you know alway across the world or you're know you're in one city then you just hit up somebody else in the studio there's just like its collaborations. Non stop twenty four seven. Men like people can do that. You know there's ago so I don't know like for me. I mean for the for the way i work. The only way i can get creative is to kind of take a break and like you know actually live live because i know some guys literally in the studio limited you all day. Every day they wake up in the studio make music all day and they go to sleep at seven. Am wake up at twelve ten. Go back in. I'm just like. I can't do that because maniac. Like maniacs he goes. You guys are workaholics. I get a you know putting the work hustle. But i feel like you're burning out you creativity if you if if you year in a studio for that long. There's only so much you can do. And you're just gonna burn yourself and then you're putting so much So much content that barely any of. It's actually pretty good. You know at at a time so it's like why don't you just of like live. Lives like don't actually just working like there's more to life you know go do something for yourself go go you know maybe do some something active workout go do some argo bread escape board. Go go the basketball anything. Anything fishy like just kind of like a nothing those things when you do those things that are really really good for you mentality. Because it's like thinking time. the jefferson. yeah. I mean even when i used to mow the lawn man like that was the best. That was the best therapy for me. Because i would just put on headphones output on any kind of radio station or whatever and just listened to music music on beats one and it was just like the best meditation from now. Think about so many ideas on the. Oh oh yeah dishonored. Maybe that's napa liz from this. Okay let me put it in my notes. You start getting ideas. i think. That's super important for being creative Twenty twenty one like keeping that creative juice up a hundred percent man. I think well it will again. Two things first of all that i think. Best how you know you came up is when you say back when i used to mow the lawn. I don't know the line anymore. I'll go back home and wilma mom's alarm but as of right now linette apartment. I don't have a long. So but if i did more or like you you said you know you got the money to pay somebody to do it. Oh yeah. I mean. I don't mow the lawn either. Feel you but But the the other thing too about you know making sure you have diverse life experiences all that. I think it's so easy to kind of get trapped in a cycle. If you're just living in the studio and live in on social media to kind of i think even just unintentionally it's like your mindset get infected by not having enough outside input and only seeing what's on the screen right and i think that is too much. It's kinda weird. I don't know if you feel this way. I think too much influence from other producers and other artists can be harmful sometimes like i love watching what other people are doing. And the reason i do what i do is because i was a dj. I like i love finding new music and new ideas impeachable and all that. But then when. I'm trying to sit down and write music for myself if i'm paying attention to too many other people it's hard to sort of find why you're doing it again. You know what i mean. Yeah man exactly. That's what i say that because basically what happened to me I think the last song that i put out before. This ep was shells with denzel denzel's occur. Yeah and after that. I was like man. What am i doing like. What kind of music do you want to do. I need to start thinking about what i wanna do for the next five years in my dj creator like not to be like super like Like you know. But yeah. I just like to me. I was like man getting older. My sound is. I want my son to grow. Music is changing so fast. Like a kind of i definitely want to be successful and still be able to get booked. Dj different cities in produce. But i wanna make sure. I'm doing it and happy. You you know so the celtics and time all two years off and and you know what i think. I got an idea of what i wanna do now. Dan saw for the dance of jones fans. You know yeah and now it's like all right cool what's next like now. I get to experiment and actually like camera. This is really what i wanna do. Not i started producing house. Music wells the first musicals producing when was that that was like twenty thirteen twenty thirteen. Tony almost fourteen fourteen started doing dance. Music because twenty thirteen year will like blog. House progressive electro. You know the the back. One deejays were getting agents and and basically become big and famous from another. Dj planner song. Yes you know. Like i remember the days you know steve angelo plays a song on everybody's a song. He says all the blogs posting a song. I d i d and then when people find the song the song is it's itchy as literally how he got fame. Remember that crazy. Yeah and then Yeah and then. You started soaring play festivals. He became the biggest seizure. World ellen point and yes so. That's why i was like so many deejays doing the same thing at that time. Like let me try to do some stands out some. Dan saw the for lake festivals. You know what i mean. Dj's could play 'cause those none at the time. I nobody's making dance or other than major lazer did a few records but at that time major lazer was making still what was considered weird like super lawyered. Yeah so people would understand yet. You're kind of kind of there's a middle bounce balance. I can hear it. You know. so that's when i did my thing and did that for awhile. Kinda like step out. Maybe go back to some. You know house music. Maybe do a little bit of this. Yes yeah yeah one. I think you know. And and we'll talk more about this in a minute. But i think you know you being a part of major lazer now to opens up those kind of avenues a little bit where you know at this point i think major lazer's done a fantastic job kind of bridging that gap and connecting the dots for people. And you know you can make a super weird underground record followed by a super pop mainstream record and it all kind of makes sense you know under the under the banner of the group but The what. I was gonna say that. For those first couple of dancehall records. You came out with back in the day and more specifically like the world boss record. You did with vibes. Cartel i mean. I think that. I don't know if that was the first record of yours. I heard but it was the first one where i was here. Just see everybody planet. Everybody talking about it. I mean how did that record. Come about and were you. Were you like in the studio or are you talking vibes cartel now man does actually acapella found. Oh shit it was an uncle pella on some blog and i was like i need something with like a dope. Aqaba dancehall vocalist obviously vibes. Going to tell like being the best. I was going to get a good scott. Tell vocal man i i. I've downloaded it. And i was like i don't know what's i don't know if anybody knows his vocal from anywhere. It's not a big song. So i was like you know i'm just making original with it and I was just like just keep it simple. Just keep it dark and keep it like heavy. Nothing too crazy. I don't want too much melodies. No cords like you know. Just keep bit dark heavy drums and just banging when it drops you know obviously has dropped so they gotta make a crazy drop for it just in your face and i did. I put it out. Send it out and the thing with that song is sent only senate outside digits. Because when i was doing promo was i man. I'm not going to be that guy that blasts one hundred. Dj's the same song. And i can't. I just doesn't make sense. Obviously i don't know what you're doing is that's smart so i was like all right cool. I'm gonna go straight to the top guys on the twitter ago. I got this song. Like i would love to get your email senate to you. Whatever and got like three or four you know a senate zone they all replied like my point my And they're like yo. This is crazy. Yo this is the best on the heard all year like this is wild like the collaboration in from then on and just spread they're sending its other deejays and back when dj's i did that. I guess right. I know it doesn't happen so much anymore. But that's a good point you just made for for anyone listening. Who's thinking about how to get their music out there. It's like you know think about who the song is intended for. 'cause you're right. I get sent songs all the time by people. I don't know where i'm like. Yes it's a good song. But what am i gonna do with it. you know. So it's like you know. Senator who you think will actually play them into. Don't you send it to every dj and blow hopi league sensitive to everybody. Give big like this is not gonna lake happened. He's got to be more more tech like So what i'm looking for. Just be smart with it man. Yeah yeah and that's exactly what. I did a great man and i mean some of those early ones. You're sending to to people who will go on to be kind of the top dogs right. Yeah man definitely guys who were started collaborations and definitely guys. I couldn't collaborate with anymore. You know too. Big so yeah. That's a good way to put it so okay so if it was an acapella that you just found though. Let me flip that question. Not how did you work with him. But how did you clear that sample. How did you clear the vocal. I did a man that's set still on on What's that what's cycle would you. What is it called shit. Oh that's how you got it band camp. Yeah yeah But let me extend the question then and ask it in a different way. Let's talk about the the sound boy. Dp like you've collaborated with tons of different artists at this point. What is that was that process like. And what was it like. Especially in the early days you know making connections before you sort of had. The established name in the sound of people knew for. What's that process like of communicating to someone who kind of exists in a slightly different realm and getting them to work with you and getting them to kind of understand where you're coming from with it Wool honestly the people that i've worked with like have come to me because they they just liked the sound like the sound i was doing. It was something news. Some fresh hit crazies. Probably likes you know it stood out. It's probably some. They never heard before so. Naturally there were just guilt. We should work on. I like what you're doing like this is crazy. This is your sound like we should do something like this cyber it really wasn't like a barrier. Anything weird it was the the already knew what they were getting themselves into working with me so other than that is still pretty natural man. Yeah well i mean. That's the best place to be like when i think about your sound it's kind of what you are saying like it. It hits super hard in that in that idiom way right like there's drops and it can move those crowds but then It still and i mean this is a compliment. It still feels like weird and fresh and kind of away from that like it's not agro for agro sake. It's not in that corny. Edm on and i don't know if that's something you consciously think about our of that's just sort of what comes naturally to you when you produce but i think it's back quality that probably attracts authentic people to come at work with you. Yeah it's Definitely it's never going to be one of those things where it just becomes like you know super trendy like it did for awhile up and coming artists were doing like dancehall like edits and drops kinda basically just trying to copy like my songs which is which is great like i love kind of started this whole thing and like every time somebody will make a song like that people would be like. You'll just like a drum song. I loved that. As i don't fuck with it but it's still so weird that it's never going to become like in like in the in the front of everything else that some already you know so. It's it's always gonna be like it's always be there like on the outside but it's never going to be like mainstays like boom. I've tried you know it's is just doesn't have that it's still just so off. The beaches so off is not organized enough for people to understand it in america yet or for like festivals. Yeah i do know what you mean. I mean it's interesting to hear you say that. Because i don't know i don't know if i if i agree that it's because of the sound or if it's just because of of the culture around eds And like the way things are presented. You know because i think i think if if that sound was put on main stage like say a promoter just was feeling frisky and books. You know ape drums headlining. Adc or whatever it is like you would smash that. I think it would work. But i think it started thing like. I think it's something weird in the culture. And i've talked to other people about this. Like edm in particular has has always had a spotty spotty record of sampling and appropriation and the way other cultures in sounds are used or your presented or even thought about it. It's tough because like you said. I don't know how that changes exactly but it to me. It's that same frustration of like well. Why can't why. Why wouldn't that be a main stage. Sound along with all the rest because for me. It's like dj brand like those you know big room house and what you're doing to me like yeah that was exist in the same set easy you know i think yeah. I think you're right. It's just a culture thing not a lot of people familiar with the culture like a one hundred percent as basically what it is which is great though. I think. I think it's better that it's days off from being like pop ish and like maine's aging life biggest cool deferred to have its own little thing in its own little lane you know no matter what will that keeps it. That keeps it underground right and that keeps it. I think culturally fresh because when something goes mainstream. I mean you know as well as i do that brings in a whole other set of problems and run after that. It'd be like the worst music. Come from it for sure right so then i guess it's like. How do we thread that needle of making sure. The the real ones in the important people in the people doing good work get paid and get their do and all that without you know taking it too far and having the money people come in and kinda losin- any kind of control or any kind of say what's going on with it exactly. Yeah i don't know. I don't have an answer for it but it's just it's interesting to think about. That's just the music industry man like. That's what it's like before. It was producing when i started. I was like man. I want to produce for so other. Deejays can play my music and sola guy can other who other people can proceed like one of you know play my stuff and wanna listen to it in one but now like man you know what after all these years. It's time to make music for myself. If i get books like i wanna played music. I wanna play music. That i produced to play out. You know what i mean. Yeah so it's it's just like also like maturing as producer in your career like man. I as a dj too. It's like i wanna do. I want to like by now like my next few shows. I wanna do like at least sixty percent of my set has to be more music. Yeah you know what i mean and eventually get more and more and more to we actually do got live show and it's like all your music and people are there for that specific reason you know. That's the way man. I think that's where everything's heading right now. And and i think it makes total sense because like you said you know back in the day you could blow up just off of one other. Dj drop in your song in a set. But it's it's not exactly like that anymore. And i think what you said. One of the things you said is the key where you gotta make it. Still fun and exciting for yourself. You know as opposed to trying to please those other deejays or whoever you're thinking about at the end of the day it's like well you know. Who are we really doing this for exactly exactly and i feel like if you for yourself the people who are really there for your music will will enjoy it as well no matter away. Yeah one hundred percents. The only only way to like long term happiness in this game. I think for sure for sure yet because he'd be keep chasing other people's approval man. Yeah that's you just never get there. It's impossible that that to me is like it's like a drug addiction or something you can never fully get there and then yeah you can ever get there then. Whenever like people don't like it you feel shit you know. You're just a fucking failing like well. Do i want to do music anymore. You know no one hundred percent man. I mean did you in those early days. Did you have trouble. You know beyond like the dj's who heard it and liked it. Did it feel like slow. Did you have trouble getting people to kind of understand what you were trying to do. Not actually when i when royal boss came out and basham and like stuff like that. That's kind of my Everything was picking up pretty quick man. People were accepting if people were loving. Like i was like oh i was getting so many shows like it was. It was a good time man but then you know i kind of lost myself as an artist like i was then after that i was trying to make music to please. Everyone else are what is so. And so like what are these. What are these fans going to make for. When i play these shows these people are gonna like it. They have to like it. So that's the kind of stay away. From what i was really doing. You know but yeah like around that time. When i was doing if people were loving man like i was actually excited. The sound was working. You know what i mean. That was i was really into gym dance. Jamaican culture no super happy to be putting them on in in one in some way getting connected with other deejays that were playing the same kinda music artists. It was just super excited from Believe all the stuff that was really going on. Yeah i mean and those memories man are precious. Because it's like you can only you can only be new once you know and you can only have like those first times once like what was if you think back to that like what was the first like big show or big tour you did. That really felt like like this is like what i've been looking at for all these years. Man i to the i r so the first tour ever data was a tour. It was disappointed. jason status. Okay it was crazy. The thing is as state is like. They don't have a huge fan base out here. Yeah obviously the legends in the cable. Yeah they're like gods out there. Yes so you know. I when my agent told me about the models like shit like i knew i saw their name but i never really paid attention to you know but then i looked stuff like i got more like. I did my research. Wait these guys. I played like like they're basically in the same world they just do it in the uk version of it. I mean they're fucking legends. Man like i. I i love drum bass from a young age so i was always following what they were doing but back in those days like early twenty tens. I mean that's like they were kinda dipping. Their toes into caribbean sounds to write hard like international record. I used to love that record. Your remember that one those like into into into international all a the cutty ranks. No-no have that record always crazy but just doing marissa's weight and then during the toward them learned so much like just when they're dj sets imc rage in iraq with the crowd. I was just like man like these guys are fire. Like i get it now. I get what they're coming in from drum in bays like know jungle and like emcees. You know spitting pud soi and lake illegitimate fireman. So i learned a lot in Watching those guys deejay says and interaction and how they didn't edits and mashups and even still to this day man still wash their red bull clash. They did what they won the craziest show their resume lights. I watched it to get inspired sometimes That's dope man. I i don't know. If i saw that one i gotta check it out but they i mean it's interesting like hearing you say this makes me feel like an idiot because i'm sitting here being while what's the you know. How do you mesh the caribbean sound than you. Think about. Like the uk drama based guy. They've been doing that since the early nineties like Like old hat to them. Exactly it was deaf. Been doing it. Because they've they've have more relationship with you know there's a lot of jamaican say. Uk basically owns jamaica. So it's like they have a way closer relationship with culture you know so. It's easier for them to come and understanding inhabit. Go crazy and they can do a lot more with up especially being from houston in texas roads. Like ro nobody. There's there's nothing there that it's like it's like the only one i would always tell people you buy dance on Stance on set. Up like sean paul lowly greg. I'm like yeah but he's not dead so it's different it's like labourers so it's like ahead. Explain that a million times to be when you sound kind of trying to inform people. You know i mean. That's that's interesting to think about like if we take it back to houston for a second. Did it feel stifling or did it feel isolated like what were you. You know as getting into your late teens. Like i don't know if you went off to college or whatever but what was going on in your life like how did you end up doing music in the first place Well long story short When i was like ten maybe you've been younger. Maybe like a. i wanted to be scratched. Dj because i would watch videos like i would go to invisible scratch. Pickles dot com. Oh yeah video would do when there would like it was like six guys scratching and doing routines and it was like man at that time. Obviously it was the hottest thing in the nineties. You know so. All of a sudden. I wanna do this. Beg my mom please like me like some turntables or take my turntable score. Dj school and we should. We just couldn't afford it so after years. I just kind of like whatever like all right I still enjoyed music go but throughout high schools dancer. That was like my house known as in schools china. The sounds like break dancing. Criminals popped in like that was my my role in highschool dallas like. Yeah yeah that was yearbook fudda. So yeah exactly so people. It was all yet led the always dancing. We always did performances at school. Like that was my thing. So i was like you know what i want to be. I think i went to like a justin timberlake concert and like the the dancing was crazy. I want to do that Always had like some kind of super good relationship with music. And i think that actually helps with like song selection because i knew what songs are good to dance to beat. Beat has to be good so anyway. Long story short I don't know how. I don't remember how i really got back into it but i did. Download free loops. I started making down like neptune's pack trying to make nets in type Timbale taibbi dhs. And then i got into house music because the mom had told me. Oh look she found like a flyers something. She's all you ever heard these kids the call the martinez brothers. Those look like seventeen years old housing. These kids were like mij- those like tintin holding their touring. Like you know. I looked it up. I'll see him playing pasta. News like block party. Kids pro governor using cj's before never the way the wasn't scratching was like just mixing. Everything was jose yard. Never seen this before. The crowd looks crazy. playing house. music is is while so dimmer research. And i. I was just like man. I'm just kinda got inspired again in those like you kind of i guess you know. D- this dj -ing touring deeds as a dj producer producer. Artist is thing now is about to be crazy that you can actually tour do shows just as a dj singer. This is wild like this is new. I want to do that and styles. You'll the only way to do that. You have to produce producer no shit so dope enough roofs again and just started like learning just messing would experiments in what it at an. Yeah that's how i got into producing was picked it up pretty quick because i really wanted you know something when you when you really want something you really wanna learn it and get good at it and whatever i do i want to be the best song like and i had a naturally good ear for music and sound. I knew something was off key and who has some sounded good. yeah Just yeah just stuff like that man. Just hearing you talk about you. You said a couple of times now about different things. You know you did your homework. You really dived into that kind of thing. It has always been personality. Like if you find something you like you just you go in one hundred percent under. Yeah for sure because like school like anything that was uninterested to say anything when music and producing than i learned with you know. What's matt mixing and mastering queuing compression. What is that my research. And i was just like nixon. Oh six hours of buying of watched one hundred video compression is and i just became like i dunno. It just became like obsessed with it because i wanted to learn. Yeah think it back to them like man that's crazy. That actually talked myself everything on youtube ad. Nobody like they're helping me had nobody. I was to ask. Cma literally just youtube youtube top everything in just experimenting with free loops Like even still to this day. I don't know what anything is on. I'm just like i just know what this doesn't like. I think that's crazy. I think a lot of kids an upcoming producers needed hear that. Because i feel like we all think we were like masters and and we went to school. We have degrees in music. you know. and that's not what it is. 'cause i keep the guys still telling me. Oh yeah can you lower down like five decibels on this. This and i'm like. I don't know what that is music to be an easy to lower down the volume on this little while and you're right man i mean i'll i'll say this to you because i did go to school and i do have a degree in music and i still do things the wrong way and i still don't know which means like maybe that's just because i'm a bad student but for real. It's like yeah. You're completely right that it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what tools i think people get so obsessed with. What plugging did you use. What tool did you. How did you you know what keyboard shortcut all that kind of all that kind of stuff. If you're into it go for it like learn everyth