20 Episode results for "Williamstown"

NPR News: 04-07-2020 9PM ET

NPR News Now

04:39 min | 1 year ago

NPR News: 04-07-2020 9PM ET

"Live from NPR news in Washington. I'm Jack Speer on a day when the US reported a big rise in the number of Kovic nineteen related deaths more than seventeen hundred today alone president. Donald Trump says he is concerned by the large number of African Americans who were dying. Trump said members of his corona virus taskforce actively looking at the disparity. We're actively engaging on the problem of increased impacts. There's a real problem and it's showing up very strongly in our data on the African American community. And we're doing everything in our power to address this challenge. It's a tremendous challenge the nation's top infectious disease expert. Dr Anthony Fauci says the medical community is known for some time. Diseases like diabetes hypertension and Obesity. Which are prevalent in minority communities tend to increase deaths from cove in nineteen the total number of us. Krona virus deaths is now approaching thirteen thousand according to the Johns Hopkins tracking site. A federal appeals court says a ban on abortions in Texas can stay in effect. The State's Republican Governor Attorney General's Sabr should be treated as an elective procedure and suspended in an effort to preserve medical supplies during the krona virus. Pandemic here's NPR's Sarah mcammond clinics in Texas have shut their doors and patients seeking abortions have been turned away in recent days. Reproductive rights groups have challenged abortion banned in several states including Texas bands issued in response to the corona virus pandemic in a two to one decision the Federal Fifth Circuit Court of Appeal says the Texas Band can remain in effect during the pandemic given the escalating spread of Kovic nineteen and the state's critical interest in protecting public health. Meanwhile medical groups accused republican state leaders of politicizing the crisis and say abortion is an essential time-sensitive procedure Saruman. Npr news local governments across the country. Trying to figure out how to hold elections in the time of Krona virus. Npr's miles parks reports. Senator Elizabeth Warren believes her proposal today for voting reforms relating to the Pandemic Senator Warren win the next relief. Bill that Congress passes to include four billion dollars to help states run their elections. She also says there should be a requirement that every registered voter in the country receive a mail in ballot with prepaid return postage the fact that voters needed to wait in line for hours. Wisconsin only magnified the need. She said Tae off any attempt to suppress about in Wisconsin should be a wakeup call to the United States. Congress we need to act immediately. Federal voting regulations have been a non starter for Republicans for years. However so it's doubtful that any of Warren's plan actually gets implemented this year miles parks. Npr News Washington on Wall Street. The Dow closed down twenty six points. The Nasdaq was down. Twenty five points today this is NPR the venerable Williamstown Theatre Festival in western Massachusetts announced today will not produce live productions this summer because of the krona virus instead it will collaborate with audible to make audio versions of its seven shows available to the public. Jeff London has the story since nineteen fifty five. The williamstown theatre festival has brought both audiences top-flight theater artists to the Berkshires for classic plays in new works. But not this summer. The festival has teamed up with audible to produce it season as Radio Theatre Artistic Director Mandy. Greenfield said quote. This virus might get to tell us what we cannot do but it does not get to dictate what we can do. The voices of these artists will be heard among the shows recorded. We'll be a streetcar named desire with Audra McDonald and Bobby. Kinda VOLLEY AND FIVE WORLD. Premieres featuring actors such as Kate Burton Dylan Baker and Taylor Schilling for NPR news? I'm Jeff London in New York. You Embassy in Russia says a plane carrying Americans has taken off from Moscow bound for the US. Us Embassy spokeswoman Rebecca Ross and a message on twitter said the Aeroflot's commercial flight to New York City left Moscow filled with US citizens who purchased tickets to return home on. Its way back. The Aeroflot plane is expected to carry. Russians who've been waiting for days to find black home on Friday and Aeroflot flight to New York was canceled with the planes sitting on the taxi way as Russia abruptly halted all international commercial. Flights futures prices closed lower oil down two dollars and forty five cents a barrel today. I'm Jack Speer. Npr News in Washington.

NPR United States Williamstown Theatre Festival Senator Elizabeth Warren Npr NPR Aeroflot Jack Speer Texas Donald Trump Russia Congress Kovic Jeff London New York Washington Wisconsin Dr Anthony Fauci Pandemic
Viola Davis & Julius Tennon

Double Date with Marlo Thomas & Phil Donahue

31:30 min | Last month

Viola Davis & Julius Tennon

"Push businesses have had to be flexible this year from working remotely to pivoting their business models for long term survival for example performing arts companies screaming stage shows measles and concerts online. But if you're in charge of hiring for your business. These pivots have made your job even more challenging. Thankfully there's one place you can count on to make hiring easier. Ziprecruiter dot com slash. Dpd ziprecruiter's technology finds the right people for your job and invites them to apply. It's no wonder that four out of five employers who post on ziprecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. And right now you can try ziprecruiter for free at ziprecruiter dot com slash. Dpd that's ziprecruiter dot com slash dpd. Hi i'm phil donahue and marlo thomas we've been married for over forty years but when i was younger wanted to be married it didn't seem possible for two people to live together for life and you were half right. Nearly half of all marriages end in divorce. The let about the ones at last. What's the secret sauce. I have no idea but the best way to find out is to talk with some long married couples. You know like a double date and so we did. We made dates with couples. We admire actors. Athletes musicians journalists. And you know what. I love about a double date. Everybody talks everybody remembers and you get a real sense of who this couple is together. Exactly take by all davis and julius tenant what a couple here are two great actors with all the talent and none of the eagle. The first feeling you get from them is welcome remember. Julius was standing outside on the street in front of their house just to be sure we didn't get lost such a great. Hello told us a lot about them right from the start. My big thing me. Julius is where the fun we have the best parties on getting to know you. Let's go workout for. Should we settled down at their dinner table with these tall comfy chairs that you could just sink into and we started talking. I felt an immediate bond with like me. She never could imagine herself with a life partner. I want to get married either. I never had any visions of walking down an aisle with the white dress. I admired every woman who was alone and happy and who had a lot of boyfriends. I was a narcissistic artist. That's what i was right. And then then. I read somewhere that you prayed for husband. When i was up at williamstown theatre festival i was doing the raisin in the sun and a friend of mine said why you alone and i felt like oh my god. I almost started crying and my eyes were welling up. He was like. Is there a reason why you don't have a relationship. I said while. I guess i've just never found anyone who loved me. You know. and then. He was the one joseph edwards i know because he just got married got married. He said go into your room. This is what i want you to do. And get on your knees and you ask god for bubble bio psycho. Although on fire. To jesus person and you did i did. I did and i. There was a specific prayer. Right that you mean very specific because he told me to be specific and literally. I was like okay. This is what i want now. He really doesn't have to be black. But i want him to be black. I want him to look like a football player. Because i love football players and one the beat from the south. 'cause i love countrymen and i kinda would appreciate it. He's already been married. he's already had kids. Because i don't want that pressure. And i want him to be like maybe very spiritual church going funny. You know maybe someone who is an artist. Tuesay's got those artistic sensibility. And i met julius three and a half weeks later three and a half weeks three and a half weeks. How on city of angels stephen bochco 's city of angels. We actually met during the pilot episode. I was dating a girl. I was really trying to run away monster. And so when i met viola i gave her my card and then she called and then we went on our first date and twenty years later here we are and i felt like i had done all the work before. Then i was in therapy. I finally went to there. Because i had screen actors guild. Insure i so. When julius came along. I remember telling my therapist. You know this guy gave me a car in his really good looking and she was like all okay because you could tell us you maybe a little bored with what i was talking about a talk about something else so and i said this guy gave cardon he. Oh he invited me to church and she was like have you called them back. I said no. I don't know 'cause i'm struck. I gotta get my created. I gotta get my life in order. She said call him. Wow and and i said yeah but you know what. They may be something wrong with him. She's like there's something wrong with everyone viola. There's something wrong with view. It took me six weeks to call him so nervous. I was having anxiety attacks. La and then me finally called them. I said he's never gonna remember me and he remembered me and i remember. He invited me to his place where he worked and the openness emotional availability. I never had that before usually men. It's like okay. How do you feel how do you feel about me. You love me. Do you not love me. Want to be not julius. You'd never had to guess. Mom did a good job. She really did. Mama told me to respect. Women knew that there was a certain kind of decorum around the way you needed to treat. Women feel said to me one time. What do you have so much against. Marriage i well i think that people lose courteousness and i. I really don't like that. I don't wanna be treated in a discourteous dismissive way and we do that for each other. I mean i'll say to him up to get you a sweat. It's cold out here or he'll say that to me. There's a concern for the other person. I went to an all boy catholic high school and one of the things that was given to us. Were dancing lessons and they taught us know you. Don't call the woman you place your hand gently on her back and you'll be sure to return her to wherever it was when you asked her to dance being taught grace. And that's a lovely i. I will talk girl school. We both catholic management to so. And i think i think sharing not so sharing religion or faith but sharing the values of that when people ask me what i. I think. Our marriages lasted at that. Will we define certain important words the same like what's fair and unfair. Yes what's acceptable and unacceptable. It feels says to me. That's not fair. i know. I know what it means. I don't say what do you mean it is. I mean i got it. You have to allow the other person you know there say as always kind of distinctive agreeing to disagree and it's okay but you know we try to get around that thing without it being an impediment what it is. We always discuss you know and for some people. It works where the angry at each other. Because this whole tone here can say some things that you can never take back so you have to be careful with this but some folks have dude like sleep on it. We never go to sleep on anger. Deify how do you fight on the door slam. I say yeah. I'm kind of the guy that just goes away. I just go away fast. I'll adore and then it's nothing like nothing. Yeah i'm the chaser followed him till i get it too. He's he's just getaway. No because i think how you fight and how you come back from a fight. It is a big line in the sand. Gotta know how to do that to my big thing. My advice about marriage that i give to all of my friends. I say you marriages start when you walk down the aisle you're marriage starts when you look over at a person that you love more than anything in this something about him. You just see. Just one character trait just a glimpse. And you're thinking oh man that's gonna drive me crazy. I don't know i can deal with this. You just bring know if i could deal with this and the next minute you like you know what but i love him. I'm gonna stick it out. What is it that when you marriage star. that's great. Tell us what it is with julia. The drives you crazy. I know i can tell you what drives me crazy. But i know a lot of things. Drive me crazy about julius Here's a little. Ocd or you know. I'm let's just say familiar with this issue. I know. I know. I'm sorry but i think it should be called obsessive compulsive order that drives me a little bit crazy to people like you may never get to use of slide need. Is guilty this all this mess on the floor. I'm like oh my god and be to walk into my office talking like crazy about everything and straightening up this book. Getting this magazine over here where along you know. I said things down. And that's where they are. I mean you can tell where i've been in the house. He had oranges over here. Because that little orange cast is there. He had a ginger ale over there because what it is if he ever murdered anybody. I like my life got better as soon as we got together. And and i mean that to my life did get better at bad credit when i met julius. I didn't know anything. I had my apartment in new york. That was the ceiling. Was caving in because it was rent stabilized. The pipes had burst psycho. Get anyone to sublet it. And then i was here doing a tv show. Not the pay rent here. And i was sending my family money. I was just all over the place. Julius came in he was making my life. It's like the this is what we could do me and you can move together. We could share the rent. And i was like all mike. I started saving my money. This is how you build up credit. I was like all really so all of a sudden. I'm like saving money. My credit got better. Shouldn't have to clean. I mean i know how to clean baseboards. I know how to wash blinds. I can do it all you know. Viola wasn't used to doing that kind of thing. And i remember the very first time she stayed with me and then i went to the bathroom after she left because she had to go to work and i went to the top. They were off everything. The toothpaste the moisturizer. Every i'm like going my god. It seemed like the battlement been blown up. She came back and she saw him bat. And sit what you do that. What you put everything. But that's just what i do. And i said listen honey you'll ever have to worry about it. Just do what you do. And i'll do what i do or and that's the way we rolled ever since and so i might take her a thirty minutes to an hour to do. I can do and fifteen. She's a slavi that's-that's us loud. I always say about feel is a man who doesn't know the meaning of the word hampshire no idea what and i've always fixing and better better over the years took her awhile but i still do things. Yeah so then. How long did it take to get to. Seriousness are moving in together. It seem like we just live together right away. It felt like i always. I always well. Yeah because he brought his close to my apartment. I loved it. There was nothing about it that i questioned. It was easy. It was right and we had so much fun. It was the first time when i was coming from new york with three four roommates. Yeah you know lip living at juilliard and the dorms. And then finally here. I was with an apartment in los angeles and it's like all of a sudden. We had a christmas tree. It's like i had a christmas tree in years. We had thanksgiving remember. Thanks thanks giving. We must have so much. You need someone food for ten people and we ate it in four days all amazes me how people know how to trust another person. I mean we wait to. I mean he came to see me. The first night i was had moved around. I was doing promotion of a movie so i was in chicago promoting my movie on his show and then i went on to denver and two other shows around the country and he called me and he said I'd like to see you. where are you. i'm in denver. Is denver very far from chicago. And he said no not far at all so he comes from denver to to have dinner with me and we do that together was it that was it does go and you think to yourself. How did i not know that he would take out a knife and kill. You know i mean you can get into vulnerable place with the person you say. Well you know. I've always thought of that as the act of faith. My goodness well. Relationships are in their faith and vulnerabilities is the ultimate you know level a courage and bravery and i felt like you felt awfully vulnerable in our early days to be dating an actress. Remember what you said to me. I sure do one do. I know you're not act. And it never dawned on me. And i thought it was such an innocent dear question like when you cry that you crying like you try got. I'm great memorizer. Was we all are actors We wrote our own. The house and my friends were with him at the hotel saying he was walking around the courtyard memorizing memories memories and then i saw him. I learned when i got it. So comes time for the wedding do our vows and he does his vows beautifully and i go to do my vows and i just choked it was like when you hear about stagefright. I just couldn't do it. And i and i was crying and i was just. It was just a mess later. Got back to the hotel after the wedding and he said i can't believe you didn't learn our vows is that i know the vows rattled them off right. He said well. Why could you know today. He said you're an actress. I said it wasn't an actress today. I was terrified bride. I was in a state of panic. Now you know how to know that. I'm not a good actress. Won a a real person even remember my lines which is actually good. We'll have more after a quick break weight loss. It feels like a constant cycle like my body is always working against pushing back on all of my progress. I learned that anytime. I lose weight. My body tries to gain it right back. Finally i discovered. It's not entirely my fault. I know healthy. Eating and exercise are important but they may not be enough so i talked to my healthcare provider about whether a prescription medicine could help me lose weight and maintain it together. We made a plan to tackle this a plan to help. Lower my risk of future weight related health issues like heart disease joining me and make a change for the better talk to your healthcare provider about treatment options to manage. Your weight for a lot of us are home is now more than just our home. I mean ours has turned into a podcast studio. But if you're growing your business home might also be where you're doing you're hiring that's ziprecruiter comes in ziprecruiter makes hiring easier because you can do it. All from one place ziprecruiter dot com slash d d ziprecruiter's technology identifies the most qualified people for your job. And if you're really interested in a candidate you can even invite them to apply for your job with one click. Ziprecruiter sends them an email from you and you stand out from the competition. In fact four out of five employers. Who post on ziprecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. And right now you can try ziprecruiter for free at ziprecruiter dot com slash d d. That's ziprecruiter dot com slash. Dpd we're back to our interview with viola davis and julius tenant and i wanted to know what are you get from each other that you can't get from anyone else or what i get what i can tell you. One of the big things. I get from her as i can tell her anything and she listens and she listened she takes in. She's always interested in my wellbeing and happiness. And julius has julius has the capacity to love not everyone has the capacity to love. You know one of the things that julius did when we first got together is he said the you know you've never had a parent who died. I find that really interesting. I was like oh yeah my both. My parents are still here. He was like all the. It's gonna be hard and you know my parents at that point. We were raising several of my siblings children because of drugs and all of that and julia said be. Let me tell you something. When parents have a hard life they can go from pretty good health really bad health in a very short period of time he in and they don't have any resources so Do they have any insurance or whatever because when it happens. It's so devastating. You so kind of inundated with it. You can't make choices. No one else in the family could make choices. So i remember we got insurance on my parents i remember. My dad passed from pancreatic cancer and the first person i called was julius. I was devastated. 'cause i was there hospice when he passed. I was out of my mind. And i called julius. I said he's gone and julie says okay. Oh the sorry. I'm so sorry okay now hands what you gotta do. You could hang up from me. You pick up the phone. You could call the insurance company you give them. All the information with a funeral home is going to be. They will take care of everything. I will get on the plane and i will be there as soon as i can step by. Step that that person who literally has a capacity to love has a really the capacity to really have your back in all of the deep ugly messy but beautiful things happen in your life. that's the elixir. As as far as i'm concerned and that's everything with him together before you got married four years there was you know there wasn't fear from me. It was just that i wanted to. You know be free of all my debt and so we got married. We could start off on even footing and she. We gather. we're going to be together so you're dead my dad we do this together and i remember not really saying anything that night and then the next day i told her i said you know what you girl for me. That's very honorable idea. That i want to be outta debt. I wanna be responsible. I wanna right into this. You know without having to drag. Roy mesfin's right and by ola and julius so connected we wondered what throws them out of sync. We couldn't help dig a little jealous. I do think not really. But i think it's good to have a little jealousy but not have a little jealousy because i always pinpoint those women who are very questionable. They may come off really nice. But i always feel like we have a radar for those women. I don't think men do. So i'm like that. And then i'm very very articulate about those. I said she can't come to the house. I'm more party everywhere. Everywhere i go i can just go. She's really more introverted. But i can walk in a room. And i can just start having a conversation with anybody anywhere in the subway station anywhere just comes easy for me. I am an introvert. I am like maybe a step away from being a straight up loner. I love my alone time. I love getting lost. I could drive to you know what theater watch of you know a foreign movie. Eat my sushi by myself with my book. And that's it. I spent most of my time alone. I haven't had a lot of boyfriends. It'd been term so when i got married to have to answer to someone to have to say okay. This is where i'm going to be was very difficult for me. It's like i almost needed a woman cave some like and you know. The invention of cell phones is that just killed me so that was one thing that i felt like. I was going to have to give up my independence. You know. i've been wanting to give up my name. I was like oh. I don't know if i could give up my i think that commit you to a stable long-term mary. I do more than i think. The people that are in danger of the people. I can't live without her. Yeah breathless to get married are the ones that come boom weeks about stress. Who how do you handle stress. We had to really learn work on that because in the beginning when he'd panic i'd panic and it was a disaster so we had to really work on somebody once said that a good marriage is where both people don't go crazy at the same time. First thing he told me is kind. Always one of those things were between us. Viola does tend to get more stressed out I had so much stress living in los angeles. I mean i just didn't understand how to connect with people. I felt like my funky. Look my funky ways me not really caring about being been acute or i just didn't have all of that stuff going on i. Just i felt like it didn't fit in and just new york was my city. You know i was. I never had delusions of becoming a star. Nothing i never had anything. I was a journeyman actor. And then i met. Julius and i did go back for six months to a broadway show was came in the second tony center. She gave me goosebumps from the top of my head to my toes in at the end of the show. I went backstage gonna sit. You're gonna win the tony award for this. I was sure of it. Speaking of rewards you wanted to ask about that speech any speech. Oh pitcher mike. Harriet tubman and you were just very political. And now we're told me speech you know that she talks about having a dream about a line right and white women their hands outstretch you know reaching for her to come over the line but then she wakes up and she says she can't ever get to that line she couldn't ever. It's always so heartbreaking. You know moments like that where you know julius just having him in my life. It's like my way of soda. Saving myself of what i what i feel. This is just. What i feel is that i don't like about l. A. riches trying to retain authenticity trying to retain something about me. That is just myself. This is just how. I felt about being out here. The everything was an audition. Even friendships was an audition. Yeah that you had to sort a pass a test in order to be you know even be the cool friend rubbing the cool mom but you know even with. Does your kid go to school right. And if it's not the hip funky school that all the celebrities have their kids at then. It's like you're out that that's my protest. I feel it is. It's like that's my pro-tech no it's like everything we've been with how to get away with murder taking my wig off. Everything is my rebellion idea. I love how supportive he is of her work. Know something yes you do. I guess we see you as stabilize. Hell i mean you guys are solid and talking to you. I am impressed with the insight you brought to hear union not everybody. Has that one of the things i did before i met. Julius was in therapy. Because i was not a great girlfriend. I had a lot of. I would say like bad boyfriends. But i was attracted to them for a reason so and i remember a friend of mine said viola. Why do you keep meeting assholes. And i said i don't know. Isn't that something. I kept meeting these assholes. She said did you ever think it was you and i remember. That was my big. Aha moment and i think that's the best thing that i brought into. My marriage is to really Ask myself what am i contributing to it. Or what am i doing to destroy any moment. you know it's like my first therapist said what she said was viola. Whenever you're on automatic in your marriage you're not in it you know and so that that's been my personal responsibility not to put everything on him not to say. Make me happy. Julius make the marriage good. Julius being the great husband julius. I also have to step up right okay. I'm going to give you one last. Okay my husband is looking like you've already t i. I could go on forever really good. I'm so fascinated by but if there was a young couple here about to be married. Is there something you wanna tell them to make their marriage. Last the big thing i would tell them is that you have to listen to the other person. I mean you really do. You have to really listen. Let it land because once she stopped listening. You're not you're not there. You're not any not listening right. You know that's a big one for me. let let you. I would say that commitment is love. And what i mean by that is. You can't operate separately with your own joy in go on your own path and your own road if if in the end it doesn't honor the big umbrella of the alternate commitment. The ultimate commitment between biolab davison julius ten and it was wonderful for us to experience it. Until next time. I'm phil donahue marlo. Thomas your lovely really. Oh well thank you very thank you time. This is been yeah. You've got to invite us. One of those fabulous party doubleday production of pushkin industries. The show was created by us and produced by sarah lilly. Michael bahari is associate producer. Musical adaptations of it had to be you. Buy sell wagons infinite marlow and i are executive producers along with me alot bell and lee tol. Mola trump pushkin special things to jacob. Weisberg malcolm glad well. Heather fain josh. Nour's carly mcclary. Eric sandler emily rustic jason gambrill. Paul williams and bruce kluger. If you like our show please remember to share rate and review. Thanks for listening finally spring. And i'm saying goodbye snow. Hello adventure and during the honda dream garage spring event. You can get epic deals on your favorite honda model ready to get rugged and take the off road in an all wheel drive honda. Suv like the crv hr v. Pilot asked or redesigned rich. I want to take spring road trip. The checkout fuel-efficient turbocharged civic or cord say goodbye to winter and hello to a new honda. 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SE EP113 Going All In with Body & Business Transformation Coach Lina Morrison

Go All In

1:12:02 hr | 1 year ago

SE EP113 Going All In with Body & Business Transformation Coach Lina Morrison

"Welcome to the PODCAST. I'm your host Brusson. I'm proud to be bringing you the stories from Sydney Australia today. On the PODCAST. We have Linda Morrison from Linda. Marcin DOT COM. Are you now? Linda is I- audie transformation coach for women over forty. She's and she's a number one each national bestselling author. She's also a speak up. And the creator of the ageless body formula now if this is your first time here at the goal in show welcome. It's great to have you here and if you back for more welcome back. We love our repeat offenders here the Goblin podcast before we get into the show that I just take a little peek at your phone. That's subscribe button on the listening in on and if you're watching this on youtube to scroll on down and hit the subscribe button and to get to ring the bell there as well that why you always have a little bit of motivation and some goal in lum right in your pocket. Lastly if you luck when you eat tonight please share this episode with your friends and your family. Linda has an important message to share. And if we can help just one or two people to break through their barriers. Get on stock them. We would have done our job here on the goal aid. Podcast tonight or Audie. Let's get into this. Linda grew up and raised her Family in Williamstown in Melbourne in Victoria and coming from really super strong family roots. She was leaving the Australian dream in her. Life was tracking along really nicely in date that all came to an end when she separated from pot and Linda needed to one how to become the breadwinner and she needed to one. Had A tycoon. Really Successful offline business and turn that into an online business and going from a standing start of not knowing anything about computers websites the Internet how to sell stuff on lawn. She found herself on a learning curve. Like know about but like all goal in stories Linda kept pushing forwards and she kept on learning and eventually she found herself with more traction and more customers than she ever dreamed possible. Linda's golden story is one of persistence of determination. And doing whatever it takes to break through and to succeed you're GonNa love her energy especially a calming nature. I'm excited. She sees. Please help me. In welcoming Linda Morrison Linda Marston. Welcome to the PODCAST. It's great to have you here. Thank you for having me and thanks. Everyone listening I'm really excited about this one because what you do for a living in the people that you help very fabric of society and what we do is people and I'm really looking forward to learning some more about how you help people in doing not that before we get into all of that craziness. Let's it's now you'll get wet. Where are you from and how did you get into doing? What is your doing well. Step-by-step I'LL ASO. Try to not not go on and on about different decades. I live in Williamstown Osborne him children a city. That's national whistles. Yes Melbourne and Where right beside the bay here beside the beach? It's a beautiful little suburb. Were extremely lucky. The kids got great sports And my kids. Seven Generations Williamstown so so we unknown nowhere. We're known generally From this town and do not change to rematch Over the decades of the years that I feel very fortunate but I do work in my williamstown office but I I work around the world so I get talked to all types of people which is which is terrific. Non-stars seven generations of Williamtown. Do you guys must be like the first settlers of that something like that. I don't think there's too many convicts that they might be but now I really extremely extremely lucky. My grandfather used to joke that you know they getting used to now linger. I've been here for seventy years because he wasn't born Twain's Tan but A that it is. It is a very village feel. It's it's really good. I feel really good about that. Much women and coming up eighteen or twenty. They've had great experiences that they in the community here as an abyss. It serves a really really beautiful foundation to be added to work with all types of people around the world. I'm just having Nice from where it's thing very lucky to be all of that. So that's beautifully said. The strong roots are very very important for the kids in for a foundation. And stuff like that as well. You know I was out on my morning. Walk this morning all tonight. Wide morning routine knows out front door at five. Am and it's beautiful. It's nice and cool here and this little bit of sprinkle going on and I was walking by the beach here in Cornell and thinking how beautiful it is and I thought you know what this is. I'm so spoilt but I gotTA GET. Outta here suddenly had an urge. I haven't felt that wife many years actually thought you could just stay in a place like this ever because it's a bobble at such a beautiful place. Everything could ever possibly want. But after a while I think what I'm feeling is like a little bit of each scratched going expand my horizons a little bit. You feel about that percent. Yeah percent so the so when I started my own business I eight years ago I immediately global on because it will just resonated with I suppose. Modern women around the world with Who all have similar needs passions etc. Ends on so I was there for only snaking both live for able to to work with people in Canada America England pots of Europe as well as as well as parts of Asia and that has allowed me to the world whilst being look after my children are very important to me but now as you say they are gone. They're all pretty much on manifesting. Now I should be taking this global business as well. So that's just a kits may to rub it. I can't I'm not attached. Can actually I can actually go. Hi One say that's the beautiful thing about Running online business and for the ladies and gentlemen of the audience. That are listening if you haven't got an online business that the laptop nomadic lost all is not what you think. It's not how it's presented in will of these fancy Internet marketing ads and whatnot. Still gotta go to work. But it's enormously empowering to be able to pick up your laptop and just GonNa work anywhere you want. That's something there are really love about. Not only working for myself but having an online business. It's it's incredible and end immediately at New and more opportunities once you actually show your viable worth and value in the services that you that you deliver I had found that to be fascinating and on the on the forever. Teach also the only unpack a little bit about about that Korea. So I mean. I started up teaching swimming and aerobics and put myself through. University having incorporated pistol training businesses. And all the While at university studying human movement to know. Sociology The Way people interact with society and very much geic around behavior change So as long as I can create Mostra around What it is. I am wanting to teach. I feel I can take anything. And then of course that's When we go to the marketplace it's about the relatable to to that marketplace to drive that results and I find that estimating because each and every person has different motivations to want to get to where they're going and if someone's done it before you you can access online That person to be able to teach you Who Noise podcasting might be my next little little thing that I want to know. More about our yet So my career Offline and online as being very fortunate. But it's always the people Able to being able to drive a result soup for them that has fascinated fascinated. May We get paid for with the results in value that we drive not not just giving them a nice experience. I suppose it sounds. Yeah interesting near beautifully said and I WANNA I WANNA. I want to circle back to that point. I just note here my pad before we before we forget about that because I love that in introduced you about you saying what you do is at the very fabric of our society because money money money and financial reward comes from other people and when you study other people and you study how by work and how they interact and you understand. They want to needs. That can really help you and accelerate your growth as a business owner but it's enormously empowering to be able to do that and to help people at the same time on the percent. Yeah so my my background was very much about getting people's bodies of health Thriving and then I found the body. Women's transformations over forty online. I found that many of these women coming through these Janis where we're getting healthy and feeling sad but they made The they made The excuse to the reason not to keep moving forward in their lives at the head no money and to me. That was just not acceptable. When I had learned so well had make money so five years ago. I started Visas teaching and I never thought that I would do that. Thirty years ago. but all of my businesses my coaching businesses at arrived at great success. So I thought will there's a formula and then there's the recipe so as long as I can actually take that back and make that relatable to each and every one of these women my sleep I worked with men as well Businesses IN THEY GONNA get similar results If they do as you said the exact work and you're absolutely right about the laptop last offing accounts. Say The screen when you're on the beach with your laptop and then of course no one wants since since sandy and the cable so it is all of that is just storytelling. But but yeah it certainly does allow you to to create to create a space in the nation movie each that that area of expertise. Become a complete geek around men than drive to the marketplace. What what they're actually asking for And I find that fascinating because at every stage the game. It's all about what the motivations of the of the Piston passing with their hard-earned cash on down than we know we're onto something. He fought a really interesting. What you do and the way you described. Is that your Laka forever teacher. You can teach anything and that means that you are a forever loan as well and while I if you don't learning you dying and every all I have a couple of really specific type yaws that I don't really need to write down anymore because it's just part of the everyday condit doctrine if you lock the Y. Upright and what the most important KP awesome million why businesses need to engage with five people. That I've never engaged with before every night. And it's a hell of a lot of work to begin that wants to get a little bit of momentum behind it. It's rose easy and engagement types different forms. It's a text message. It's an email to Scott message message. It's reaching out with people that are having communicated with the wall and got a little tote that I have on a post at night every night. One two three four five and sometimes before ten o'clock in the morning of like I did it wash said it'd be a target but I'm like it's just that that's how because in y business money comes from other people in every business money comes from other people in order to keep it going and make it happen a lot of going with more people. So that's the re-met that I have in order to keep the cash flow going in y business but like you on I'm also Evelyn or if you lock not an invitation. 'cause I'm not really in a position where I'm teaching people stuff that I'm always always wanting to learn things and I'm challenging myself with new things and when I feel like I'm getting style actually felt like this just the other day as well looked at all. The podcast has gone from morning. Walk and my morning. Walk is a is a twelve kilometer round trip. It's about knowing about nineteen minutes. It's not it's pretty easy as a few hills and stuff like that. But it's really beautiful by the water and it's it's a decent enough time we can get a whole podcast in right or do chunk of an audio will. And I'll look through the list of podcasts that I listen to and I was like Oh man. I'm bored of all that stuff. It's the same thing over and over and over again and I asked myself as always walking. Along. What is that. Why feeling like that and I think what it is because on the bottle on those subjects on full bottle on that topic there of latest order out of that now l. up something gallison tries something. Something new is something new that your kind of exploring at the moment I actually. I actually am Because I work so much with women and women talk about emotions talk about not feeling it not wanting to step forward because they waiting for a certain feeling something to be perfect before. They'll make a move. That seems to be a theme that that keeps coming up all of the time. I being lending a lot more about relationships intimacy and love end to end starting out from self love when you talk about reaching out to five people a day. I'm Robert what I'd find that you need. You need to actually feel worthy that. You've got something to us before you're able to do that. And that comes from a filled up cop in place. So low CITRA fascinated by that journey at the moment. Non absorbing lots of Information about the about how people relate to themselves Because feeling good about self often drives abundance in all areas. So if you feel good about yourself then you'll go and make an effort to kiss your body be better. You feel good about yourself. You will know that you are worthy of fabulous relationship with a significant other or even friendships If you feel good about yourself you will feel that you are worthy of an abundance and and you know if a growing business for example so interesting actually comes from this Sort OF A. How would you say like a Filter of love and That's something that I've been exploring. More more more more after years working with women and their body transformations in you know releasing white and those sorts of things Nothing good is born of lack diets. Don't last when you need you say Chocolate which is just never realistic. Let's face it and I you know and and and and it's all about some taking away as opposed to what we do know about Rocking a vibrant body. Is You get more? You get more creativity. Get more clarity. You get more energy your new get shop with your mindset. You actually get more when you look after your audio. Have your body functioning at What it's biologically meant to see that you know your Ideal Body Weight. You know an healthy function all of that stuff. So so yeah. That's what I'm aching out at at the moment I can't get enough of it and taking Dada from people all the time so I guess I'm associated in that way that I cannot get enough so whether pistole chooses to work with me or not when I make some like like you. I've I sort of have a protocol of of meeting a certain amount of paperweights wakened and dumb on gathering data from the Mall of the TOT and and and not. That sounds creepy. Doesn't it by? Nah It's more that I'm scanning for what what's the rhetoric they've got going on. And where can I help them to to to to to move forward and I think sanctity when I first met you. I'm actually quite quiet and shy socially And that's I've had to Just have from my social time because because my my business time means that I do need to be Philly vivacious outgoing and and I've got the strive of being able to get results with people so when I wanted to sit on my hands and going to have a quiet day there is. There is something inmate that just wants to help people so I said that You know I I really know about so exploring the some. This is a very long answer to question. Think that exploring this whole thing of love has seen has been interesting for me. I don't think it's a long answer at all. I think it's a very articulate answer and it's an Kinda demonstrates to me that you'd know what path you're on you know when you when you find yourself on a path and you gathering a little bit of momentum behind you. It can be difficult to have the self awareness in the emotional intelligence to know what you need to do to fuel that fire. All I had the I had the opposite experience in my business in the last couple of In the last couple of weeks where things weren't going the way that I'd plant I won't going the why that I anticipated and I had to really stop and reflect on why it wasn't getting the traction that I thought it would and what I needed to do is to to look at it and problem solve a while your you're describing is the other wife is when things are going really well. How do you pour on the calls? What are you doing? I can't get enough of that stuff. I love that stuff. And that's a really feels good because when you encounter sometimes happens to me like I'm watching a youtube video and something I'm like Damn webinars found these before and rallied. Some good stuff and I gave out about some. It thing with some analytics thing like wow. That's really good and I'm like that feeling. You need to do more of what he's doing right now. And that momentum going in the right direction your emotions of the most sophisticated guidance system in the universe. Oh Oh absolutely at absolutely. It's it's actually quite incredible. And even when you talk to you about Doing a sales coal and drawing in sales for your business I E even with this idea that this is ongoing to make this. The best thing dispersing does today. And many people say that sounds so self-important but actually what are we bringing to the table that this person actually is so attracted to to to your offering end the way you a being and what you are that they cannot get enough of Hugh and Now let's let's face it if we if we look at people who giving the most valuable bank paid the most Around the world people who are very talented at what they do and have had the and have got this connection with this Skill so if you look beyond say as a cro and they haven't got there by magic. They've got there because of their enchants on. They've stepped up there this strategies. They've worked hoddle if they scenes. But there's so much bad it in in who they being if every single day so say that that is a superpower that I don't think people realize I have an everyone can see when you're full up with what you are doing that you love. Everyone can feel and see that. So so there's the stricken in this cheap that directly right. We're going to do more of that and that will actually show us the way You know the rest isn't magic. You still have to have your strategies and systems and do the work. I show up an older. All of that stuff yet. Is he some baying being in laws? with with with south way you're going on what you're creating for yourself is is Pretty special of so beaut-beautifully said it's really nice to get a window into your world and in the way you think about it as as well and this is wildlife podcasting so much because you get to go deep in a conversation like this in people listening. Get to be the fly on the wall in that conversation so I really appreciate you sharing a little window into your world. Linda people come on over to the goal in podcast to learn more about others. That have gone all in so if you could. Could you please share with us in the audience? You'll be goal in story or stories and the lessons that you your commitment to success absolutely. I think By off-line businesses probably come quite easily to me Where can we people as a passion and health and fitness in running The wellness office in in delivery slots things that I did for many many years. became very easy to. May and People ride in front of me Win I separated and then divorced. I had to learn to be a breadwinner literally overnight to continue living in the home that my children were used to and all of those sorts of things so I brought my business entirely online and I had no ability in understanding technology at all it was. It was a rarity. If you've got an email from me even at that stage eight eight years ago it was pretty. I still linked to the bank into the bank into the store today to do my banking so I was I was really well behind. The eight ball didn't think I had an aptitude for anything technically and I literally had to put my my my work. Worke Bay had on and Lynn and under not only wanted to learn. I wanted to create Maastrict's everything that I've done in my in my body my health in my in my Korea parts of microwave oven apparently parenting. I was only I wanted to do it. The right way the best way and I definitely wanted to consume myself with how to understand how to get in front of the Papal Technology. And obviously podcast is. One is one terrific as well. Sorry for the bank and then what so what I actually did. was whipped. Not Dieting. Take a weekend for about six cheese and I learnt and I. I think I've said this a little bit that assist a youtube video. I Google do go to win onto youtube for was how to set up a youtube channel. So I and I I learnt a huge amount. I also got a great coach. that could really relate to to paint those anyways. A very stressful time fatigue is I. I used to work for a half an active at school. Go to go back today to rest. Because I wasn't sleeping for for quite some time in that in that stress and I can't what I did with with technology because a lot of people said I hate technology now. Technology is just a tool and it's not going away in fact it's getting more privilege now loss and we need to stand how it works and how you can bet at loss and bid up in your career All of this stuff also the way in which we get to communicate with younger generations as well. They're not they're not gonNA give it up sorry So I went will I need to learn? I'm very very good things like I can play golf and I never play golf tennis with you. If you want to play tennis rub it would be honey a diamondback hands. But I'll win all that stuff. I was always good at whatever I I I did. So I just thought well if I can out a+ they say it goes. Do you understand what this computer eat so. I literally wrote things down as I could understand them. I mean my life forties Wego with technology So I wrote down how to do everything and I went back to the basics and then I would watch youtube video over and over and over and over and over again to like got the mastery around what I what I needed. Then them business had to make sense to me because of online you can you can Get in touch with people in any different way but I had to work out. What are the funnels that actually bring the paper to me? They people they women over forty. Where are they at that time? They weren't necessarily on Instagram You know they were mainly on facebook so I had to find out how to be relevant to them and had had communicate with them. They love video. Most people do now anyway so I went straight to video this eight thousand videos of May working around the ensuing two waves as my daughter would say just bossing people around basically that's Sorry so I just I just did it end. I was told I wouldn't make any money By my ex and I ended up making over a million sales in the first couple of years from one funnel one on line six week program and We just helped many. I only know those numbers when I went back and looked at it because I so in Zion that my focus was to be well to look after my children and to have a really viable vibrant business that I could be very proud of so said this movement of Ageless spotty happened now. I teach that business model to budding entrepreneurs around the world. Many of them women and some guys will work with me too happy for For the way I talk. Be clunky with my language Iran technology. But I know what I'm talking about. Does that make sense yet? sorry out. We're generation is is my absolute gay cowed area because You know getting clients really in close to to To what it is that you have for them. is fascinating to me And their motivation. You know when they're going to step into chicken meat conceals yes they committing to our program. So they're actually committing to A A really beautiful future vision of themselves and I fall in love with that before they do. Sometimes that's beautifully said and thank you again for sharing that story. 'cause really kind of opens up a bit of vulnerability there. And what what you're describing. What I'm hearing is there was. There was a gap in your knowledge. Lock is a lock a not just a little one like the Tasman say between Australia and New Zealand A big big gap. But you didn't make any excuses you you went all in on it and you just go on with it. I just saw I just kept thinking If someone else's not fool may there is a way and I will access it and really destroy gle. My personal struggle samed less important when I was helping others and I think that the the biggest thing that many of our coaches actually have is that is that is that real. Drive to want to help people because they are that. I do believe this ways to make money rub it and then Purchase Day around the world. But I'M GONNA job as much as you recommended by gone. That's it that's the matters of never had a job Chelsea employed so I joined. I have that guys So therefore My commitment to Eleni ever learning again. is the thing but it's the people that that really That I'm really fascinated about and and I I thank my mother and my grandmother for that as well because they had all these coaching courses that I've done over all these years and the best people that I've actually got to being in front of to learn more and more what my mother and my grandmother has said an open to us is is really being You know the the biggest times. Yeah so so. They have listened listened. Toll can and it's not that you're talking about people it's about Boundaries and motivations and Way You WANNA take a loss for yourself and for your family And then once you taking care of that they seek. Beat you've you you get to sexualize and to take care of thousands in many and If People WanNA come on that on that road and Janney than than Love I love him up for that for what? They're saying they want for themselves. That's really cool. Then it was. Was there a moment of clarity? When I don't like it all came together lot. Suddenly the light bulb came on. And you said I've got this because people that listen to this show a get so much feedback or get so many emails messages back through Social Media and people are always teetering on the edge is the why describe it. I was about to do this but I didn't. Because as residents in this little bit of fear about taking not stepping in and doing that and in your story you just went and did it because you Kinda had to you sort of had no choice what we are going to otherwise and in spite of the hardship that was there and the gap. That was Aaron. You knowledge you went and filled that gap. How long did it take you before you got? Was it a years at six months three months that that's a that's a really great question. I think ahead Something like six and a half seven thousand applications into my six week online program in a couple of years. I literally hopped on the fine with every single one of those people if United States my cold because I wanted to ask bribing work that there's no other way to just do it. Just do it just do it and I ended. I admit I am a bit of a wick host in that way and that that is my background with being a physical trainer we can work hard and also in lava. You know that you you just have to like. It's your kid. You gotta get up to that key. If we're not felt the same about about these people is that they want to access me. How can we we have them? Having a wonderful experience and get the outcomes come to us for even even to This Day with business coaching. And you're absolutely right. There's many reasons not to this many reasons. You just gotTa get a job or of. I've got the pension or I'll just do whatever bats to me that that is unexplored and that's not acceptable. And I I think it's you know everyone would. He's listening would be familiar with Anthony Robbins. And he talks about you. Want a great loss. Get a a great a standard of of expectations yourself. Oil or raise. Your standards is what he says So at Age Stage. I just raised my standard so as I hit that goal. I raised my standards. Heat that cholerae stands by do a tweak this double double that will be really good now. I'm making it sound as if I might be really really good around visas concepts but business to me is simple if it's simple than it will work and and I think that that is Is a really important thing To going on absolutely a is always writing some copy for my website just yesterday I n rang my brother. And he's an absolute expert copywriter and I know that just from years and years of rotting Edwards ads and just being able to be super ultra sink now and we wanna kicking the can around. This is what I've ridden and we on the sentences and we rewrote sentences and we we rent them again and we went back and forth. Just use your process that we when he helps that and in the end he said you pretty close up gotta go. So you've gotta get something there on the sought and if you if you can think of something and pull out all the fancy and just might get a simple possible folk to people in plain English on trying to sell to them. Just be simple in plain English. Your Business Away. Because people don't want to buy because when I see your stuff. The explanation is so crystal. Clear is ambiguous about what it is that you're trying to do or you're trying to sell them in with some sort of answer in simplicity. I believe so macho along the same lines as you that. That's the Kate of business. Ride is just going to be simple on the APPs absolutely and that down and and live life is is is is actually quite simple if you if you break it down and if you're honest careful we're going to divide the audience badly. Maybe maybe that's a cab heavy to have a friendly chat about any of these concepts and be a dozen. It doesn't matter who's Rod as long as it works in that people feeling like moving forward and creating an creating what they what the way that they wanting to going so they feel like they're progressing towards where they want to guard and I was about this theory while performing Youtube Video. In fact it's cold. You Know Honesty. Get to your best buddy in your best life. So we must actually seek. We can start with honestly Where we're at so at that time when I didn't know about technology and stuff like that just went. I don't I don't know I don't know anything actually don't know anything. I know how to deliver my service. I just don't know how to do it online. I NEU- I know that I'm had certainty. Ron I'm better than anybody out there to get these results. These people and I I was very certain about that. And I think that's probably going to help you audience truth teetering on the edge. It said get very certain about what you WANNA drive. Why you want to drive it and it was a lot of reasons why I wanted to drive out. Would look after my family. I wanted to abundant terrific life. It was unacceptable to me too late by marriage not be able to afford one. I wanted to afford to be a one. Look good in. An part of that was Part of self care as I told to women about ease having money available so they don't stress because stressed Mazda is not one that's operating From her best place. And if you're stressed about money and Australia is an expensive place to live in than than it. Some you know operating from the best place and there are options there's ways to make money and And yes all of the all of these things. I do find interesting fascinating to to talk about because a lot of the time people are polite to talk about embedded that actually you talk about love and relationships self. It's really important. You talk about I U Being satisfied in in your business a work life and your personal life that supported soap about and so two is having access to the bills bank. Pay you know in succinct manner that that seeks with your values that seems very important to talk about the lot of the time Way Women are not talking about honesty. Thing isn't it. The why are described that is for some reason On crabby cranky. And I come home. Emma Mrs What's wrong with you on the cranky about some on him know what I'm cranky about right and I don't WanNa talk about it. He that very often in a relationship and look. I don't want to talk about that. And people get spun up about that and and what I call body is is Yukon of leaving your problems in the fog then comes there. You know that you can feel them. You'll them in your body but they're not being addressed because you're not willing to fight them and not willing to fight them because in the fog over there when you walk in there. There's a really big ditch in the ground that you're gonNA fall in is really sharp edges and nods that fog clears and you face your problems. You honest with yourself and you'll honest about what it is that you're trying to do with your health with your finances with your life. Then you can dodge those digits you can feis you. Can you can fight those things. And it's as might just makes loss easier when you're tackle things head on and you'll honest with yourself. One hundred percent. Yeah one hundred percent and this this such great services out there people who've done it before a part of the reason I've I've made coaching as actually saying some perhaps well-meaning coaches trying to take people headed developing online business. I haven't done it before themselves. So that would be like me hidden down to Work with an accountant or financial advisor that Had homeless so I had no money. It doesn't make sense of all or or a train. Nah that's just out of shape or something like that so Yes so that's that that's Integral around all of that way. Extend in take type guy. But I'm I'm really excited. I ninety that I'm coming out. Forty eight in March and I'm really excited about the next ten years whereas known previous generations. That might have been a time to slow down a Ted more you know. Wait FOR GRANDCHILDREN. Yet thanks But I'm excited because I think it's a new coming for For Business and for women in Business. Who ARE MOTHERS End End for people who just want to make a shift a new career. It's unlimited what you can actually actually do. Now that's fascinating and we don't know what's next as well. I would agree and I would say the same. It's the same for men as well. You know you're giving that female perspective because that's the spice you work in but for me Tomorrow I'm about to turn forty three and I feel like I'm twenty three. Yep Honestly what forty twenty and and you you nudging up against fifty. That's the new thirty and much life to be lived in twenty four hours in one dies alone. Time for entrepreneur is a lot of stuff that they can happen. A lot of business to be done as a lot of places. You can do the things like that. It's it's definitely definitely exciting time and you paint a really good realistic pitcher audit as well into because you you share with us. A story. That is is hard but you just overcome those challenges and I think a lot of people think that they've got within them to overcome those challenges but when push comes to shove people often often give up an and. I'm just curious to know if somebody's listening to this and not on the edges of it in a hearing this guy. It's a rod for you. Go off you. You've got even doing eight years. You started youtube way back when it started. You know can't do it now. What would you say to somebody to encourage them just to give it a? I will excited hop on a conversation with other us to say because we're persuasive because as certainty around it working east working is extremely high. And I liken this to you haven't done it before you don't know you could do it. And there's a lot of scenarios that are lacking that show for example when I A my second best. I have children of Gillan boy. My second birth was at home and I didn't. Some success was in hospital in difficult. His birth was I wouldn't say easy but much end at Hun and I kept on saying to meet wise. I didn't know I could do it. I didn't know I could do it after he was born. I did not do it and she would just gently repeatedly because I was in you know in another world. Say Back to me. It's because you haven't done it before your clients and I think that that isn't as as really a fable Is that you don't know you can do it until you've done it But there is so much great information out there. If you commits to a process with someone jonquet get the. Don't listen to the free staff will or whatever new certain amount of it not the help you along the way bottom but but really go lean and Be Willing to learn and tweak the my my business clients have done the best of the ones that have been willing to tweak and let the ego at the door completely because a lot of that you need a lot of confidence in ego to do these top business. I find the more I stay grateful and thankful and in that space of love which has nothing to do with my egos. My Ego rises up by giving. That's when I get cranky in impatience. There's a big one of Linda's impatient doesn't work sorry so being willing to To tweak what your ideas are of one how this is going to look and then go for it and you're absolutely right. Rebel win win. I is some weeks and days joined flow as I would have planned. But the Tom get to get nothing. We get nothing. We get nothing for three days in. Thursday's payday is a boom it re things coming but that everything coming is because I held the vision three months ago three years ago four years ago and that's consistency Does actually get you a great viable business. The Opposite Dance of the twenty. Four hours Entrepreneur has loss Justin play that the ups and downs so holding the space. For for this for the success will come it just has its aren't. We did our time sometimes. Definitely it definitely does and I think would echo. What you're you're describing nad particularly by stretching yourself and you know yourself as a as a PT PTA for a long time as well in the and you know. I've I've run classes with all sorts of paper. Everything from bad awesome. Victory goal is to you know just regular normal civilian people and they were just. You just really never know what you're capable off and if you can if you're teetering on the edge of committing to something and going all in on something especially at this time of the at the start of the start of Twenty Twenty. That's sort of a calendar month that people love to use to get started with something. I would say. Push yourself as hard as you can. Just go for it and then go down that path it and commit because unless you commit to something at some point in your life you forever going to be like languishing in floundering around wondering and watching. Everybody else do it. But actually it's not so bad and even if you get halfway down that path and Mike a right hand turn ninety degrees in Orange Immonen disorders not few. At least you've committed to something and you've given a go at something can you? You've had a really a dedicated focus. Try at something. Can you come out of that on the other side better for it because you got men? I never thought that I would be able to do that. And she still. Couch did didn't finish it or didn't get my goal. Actually wasn't what I wanted to do. You still have that sense of achievement in that sense of purpose as you doing it. That's that's excellent and great great encouragement. Great Way I I. I often like an to once you. You get more you have more. And there's there's more creativity is like the Sny I am. I am not a non copyrighted but I love riding copy and it seems to seek. Well we use Helping paper with my arm and and I find icon. Switch that creativity off. So so would I come up with a good idea. Eighties lacking addiction. Then there's more and then there's more access to more and And I think that that that entrepreneurial mindsets Needs to be practice training muscles to get stronger in that condition. He said he got a day to go there. And the state the state The State of operation that you require that I have access to now. I did not have access to a user generated. So that's amazing as a girl who's he can be a little bit vain about a body that I I'm going to age like it's going to age but the whole creativity thing and that And and doing more in your businesses and helping more and being quick more savvy more more trained that that's that's fascinating and you've all got that we will got that in you know if I if I was to try to Set up I wasn't that interested in I. I would run out of steam but because I'm so so so therefore you'll be talking to me and I say saving the Kittens or whatever. It is whatever it is. You'll you'll have unlimited range for and skype full because you're you're extremely student up goal in shows all about potential and it's about sharing stories of other people who have had a go at something and come out the other side and being successful at it in the end the audio of it behind it is to say if you're listening to this then you've got the potential to do that as well. We're all night at the same stuff. Uh stupid went pants on the same way as every other post and in the world you know we we all we all live in the same. We're all just human beings is the way we think about things the way we execute on things that are all slightly different and that's the nuances that we have. But we all have the potential for greatness in many aspects of our lives in whatever it is that we we choose to do. So if you're listening to this day doing on the edge don't teetering long. Just go in and and commit to it. I want to move on from from that. In thank you again. For sharing your wisdom and insights into the oval in mindset and your version as well but I love. This is Lois Body formula. Why Mrs laughed at me is got out of bed yesterday afternoon. All I had a shower early because I had a light the night. Five o'clock in the afternoon the goals were out or not lie down and I was just looking at my phone at the end of the day watching the watching the news on my phone and I came home and they like what are you doing and I got up off the bed and I was like. Oh my main. Mrs Laughed at me and I thought of getting. My Body doesn't feel walk on twenty years my birthday tomorrow but I feel like I'm twenty. My buddy my buddy says otherwise. I missed a paratrooper. That doesn't work the way it used staggered a story about getting to Jake on the Gulf coast With a friend and Just a just after Christmas for for a week and idead as look. I want you to fill me doing cartwheels on the beach. So I I d one Cot whale growed. I used to be outdated in a row and do the second call yet. That was really good. I thought come on pull up a bit. That was the DOJ second cat. We'll go. It'd be hard on the hot wheel did my heap and my my answering and you say you. Yeah you should have seen the age I rise out their in house really cranky and and I'm like oh he's been trying to cough in the South Sandwich Here which is still token to me. It's avenue quite well and And I thought yet they got. You haven't tried as and you'd think he can do them any angry any single day of the way. Now I WANNA be to get back to my ten in the row in a row which public could do about ten years ago and Yet I felt every bit of my years in in that moment ends my ego was kind of like Oh versing and it goes on film and it was on and it was on. It's interesting as as you get older. You your mind doesn't necessarily get older with you because you've been caught wheels in a row before you've done it before so I can do it again and now you signed on that. Seagal definitely get back to that. Oh I had. I had one recently as well. Mike I was in the gym. Just doing the same workout overnight in one of my mites. He's trying to their incomes. Auburn goes dude. You doing the same thing again. Challenge yourself flute a bit say asking me. What's the challenge for me? He goes ten sets of ten buffy puppies every minute on the minute. So you got to do ten buppies ten proper base. Jump Up and clapping hands bobblehead in sixty seconds and then when the clock hits sixty seconds ago again this wire he gets he gets off a couple of like maybe four or five tries at. It'll go to. He's going did you get it and this way or five workouts into it and what. You're an idiot man. I'm not even going to bother Toronto. That yeah yeah. I'm pretty good at the Bay Pizza Day. There was a yet. There was a challenge. I didn't know blackwell came out. My nine was on it. And then all of a sudden I got my attention for all the blackboards yet. They're gonNA write down. How many I'm going to do so I ended up Winning that and yeah the two rounds at forty two in the first round was sort of five different. I'm short shorts Sets Forty turn fist round and got like forty four in forty four or forty. Six in the second round was only important to me. There's others in the class who twenty but it was only important to me. But you're absolutely right if that if I wasn't measuring I wouldn't have done that many so not having yet at that articles strategies if someone's done it before and they go to certain amount. I mean those things are really really good staying staying a buoyant rounding Fairly competitive if I think is I think is a is a good thing it said isn't entrepreneurial thing I mean I think that's that's a big part of of that and we just really need to stay competitive with ourselves and do better than yesterday. That's what we're wanting is very very important and you you call your system. The ageless Wadi formula in my mind. On not ageless but unfortunately my body is aging in wearing out slightly new in the air. And I can't do that so much and is it still a six weeks challenge a little bit about it. We have Six transformation challenge most of the people that come through our women and they're women over forty and the average age is around fifty. But we've had younger women with had men as well. It's actually a really Structured Online delivery with live coals. Wants wake like on Zoom so. We can't very very engaged. Now it's it's Beautiful busy people. Because that's the majority of people at around that age collectibles in the either either got kids empty nesting or blended families will work can travel. Whatever they've got so so. It's very doable for people who are busy from that. We we have day retreats and health traits as well because a lot of people wanted to be extended and have a whole block of time where they where they very much paying attention to their wellness on interrupted and we roll out the plans of how they're going to approach the health and the next twelve months a lot of people when they think about health. It's because they hit the hip or they've Gotten seat or they're trying to get Some some conditioned back because they don't fit into the clothes but other than that they don't have a very good Attention to or protocol around. What are they doing with the with? The spotty and the body is quite amazing and this whole thing around Edulis sports that look ten years younger so a lot of I know that is true too for me because one. I chose my parents right. Robert Sawyer is a good thing I think. Try that try to do that. Thank you mom and dad but but my teenage is friends. Say Oh my goodness how old your Mama. So if they're saying that in doing something right that said I rest really well more than ever before a slate law I pay attention dislike more than ever ever Gucci number. How many hours do you need to feel rested months? Seven exactly seventy seven and we're on the time sometimes on two third and it's going to be the kind of the same seven on the beat. Robbie shops for about nine PM at NAS. My Son teases me going on sleep on the couch. You know like an old woman. So it's sort of that. Tend to five kind of thing an end to end maximizing. Not that is really important. So we'll talk a lot about those sorts of things one of the hats of done. I've actually talked to sixteen so You know we know a lot of hacks which we bulk the trends. This is not about trends. It's actually about what works on Moist. People WANNA drop a couple of dress sizes or Jane sizes are getting getting that into an entity with this whole issue of stress in autoimmune disease. That's on the rise in in modern Western society communities. And that's quite the worry. That's quite the worry because it's it's causing some some real ill. Health take a holistic approach to your programs like a spiritual nutrition and physical or is it just kind of many many upsets me say it's an empowerment program so there is a lot a lot around. This is a lot of language around me actually saying Gee realize you're the see your your family. If you go down the whole family goes down. Now that could be the men and women but a lot of women feel put upon. They're the ones whose health has gone at window because it taken the kids to soccer practice since to the to to the NIP is in an everyone's taking care of except for themselves so I I take on this approach that you give me forty minutes a day in six weeks. I'll give you back your life and so so yeah. There's a lot around that Showing up for yourself so you can think show up for others in a way that version of you that you're super happy with and we all know when we're feeling how game it's it's not a good day alive or year will it's getting on your game. We say simple strategies is really important. So I've been a wife a mother a business I now. I know how busy last again and I still on that space and time to do my own workouts on now on down the gym jumping about with some twenty year olds and doing wrought so do something runs which is a lot of fun but I suggest that you stop that way. We start with baby steps so I'm able to take H. People through whilst in a group situation the group is not cheap thousand people. It's it's much more Friendly you know our numbers. Keep those large end. The whole rhetoric is is around banging empowered modern Gal. Who WHO HAPPENS TO BE? I always wanted my catch. Cries is your way too young to feel these old so I love it because that is just unbelievably true especially when I get out of better black Monday but I'm too young to be feeling all like that. I've been doing a little bit of Doctors de Martini stuff. Yeah he he says a lot of really good things and if you've never heard that before new listening to this really encourage you to look that up. It's a bit of a neuroscience biased version of what we're talking about and one of the things that he talks about is your conscious mind in your subconscious ended and the vast majority of what we do die tonight by Sec- subconscious in fact science proves that ninety five percent of what you do is subconscious. And he has a really good way of describing. How you go through you die and when you think about it most of what you do on a daily basis is unconscious when get outta bed up more training gear on because it safe from the night before I put my shoes on a guy at the door and I'll go out and try? I really think about it. I come back. I know what I'm going to eat for breakfast was already know what I'm GonNa eat for breakfast and I'm really think about it of a shallow. Get READY FOR WORK. Because it democracy will begin working on the really thinking very much about it the first time during my die where. I really have to think about something is when I have to write something on communicating with somebody but the nature of what I do is. The communication is just answering questions and answering. It's not really thinking about that. Why not just that? I was the first time in about a week. Were actually had to really think about what I was writing. Because I was riding a copy for a webpage for south spike and it had to be on point and it was. It was hot. Thinking is hard as difficult to do because the vast majority of what we do is is unconscious in Montana. He talks about how a you did. I did all of the activities that you did yesterday and today you gotTa hyave in almost exactly the same way as you did. Yesterd- I and that's part of the reason that people struggle to change is because physically. They used to doing the same things physically. They used to be getting the same tried off the signed payoff from the hormones and they brine and from what happens when doing activity you drink your coffee at the same time of the die meals at the same time tonight and your body's expecting these things and you have that stimulation as you do it and it really helped me to understand y you behave the way that you do. And today's behavior is actually being driven by. Yes that is a high via. And if I continue to live in that world and to not be self aware of that tomorrow's behind you will be the same as yes. That is in the Siamese. Today's and nothing is really going to affect China. And one relationship thing thing that I'll on ninety five percent of what you do is subconscious and that's almost like a six hundred pound gorilla. So what do you? What do you feed six hundred pound gorilla by whatever the bloody hill at once is? What do you need to do to effect change? You need somebody external to you to help you to understand why you behaving the way you do and somebody externally to you to help you to keep moving forward whether that's from an accountability. Perspective from a love perspective or spirituality perspective for me I. I just don't believe that you can do things by yourself in this world and we're GONNA bring it full circle to saying right at the top of the show. He that what you do is at the very fabric of our society. Because I can't do it by myself. Anita handle need some. Yeah yeah one hundred hundred percent and I feel the same to extend me as well so you know I am. A coach believes in coaching Semitic Cape accessing. Next more. I need someone who's no higher that you know experienced. Leda as well. And that is the way you had the good stuff. I believe. The hege change is not easy. It's not easy for anyone in and I've met day Montana a couple of times having run a car. Practical Fees News in. That was one of his fist disciplines. On Montaigne another great guy to to to say as well as Dr Joy dispense out. I really loving that stuff. Because I've actually had A bit of the healthy. She had respiratory problems and pneumonia. Those sorts of things to getting back. My fitness is extremely important but of course I cited people the twenty one workouts nieces. Exactly Twenty one day twenty one. I actually felt so emotional that I felt I was backing group again. After banks seeking losing so much condition is like three weeks. Twenty-one workouts and that's the same with things like Laying A twenty-one Sales Kohl's twenty twenty one times of running your business in you weigh your online or delivering that service all of those sorts of things if he'd Biz kind of that rough time and to get to that feels Gucci. It feels awful. You don't have the sign APPs available in your in your brains out there to do it so it does take someone else to actually go feel. Really Thankful I've met Roberts that there will be a day. I'll go gone out. I can do this guy yet. Now you'll silly you can't if you concentrate on x wines it and then go okay because he feels when you're bringing together something new it feels like you're bringing together. Five thousand paced puzzle. Don't have the ways and the methods to be able to think that you can. You don't have that certainty that you can do. You have done it before So so yeah old. Need each other to walk other harm and A example if I can share this of this happening to me recently because I've been so focused on my children my business growth etc. I haven't really had much of a boyfriend lately and these what's actually come off. Is this person to my life. Asking me questions at the answers to join sign up to be out and then haven't been there before so it feels. I feel like a dummy but I'm not a dummy I'm just I just haven't been here before with access to this style of Linda. Try this so he will allow having relationships on not avoiding relationship story avoiding. I gross within our relationship that we already have and we don't necessarily want WanNa grow because it doesn't feel rot but and that's why I talked about a love thing that the Fertile and definitely the Self. Love 'cause if you see with that and you got everything. I need within me. I just need to know how to access it into Confidence to listen like you saying about emotions. All that got feel all those sorts of things that that is the way that is the way that's knauss. It's a nice sentiment that you kind of sharing with us there and and and thank you thank you so much as way bumping up against an hour here are just again. I just want to thank you so much for giving us a little window in she will. That means a lot to me that you I'm on this show and share that with my audience and I'm absolutely certain that they're going to get something out of it and connect with you because you've been so giving here in a really appreciate that. I can't let you leave the goal in podcasts. Without putting you in the goal in podcasting hot seat Fred random questions. It's a little bit of fun. It's not really related to what we're doing now. I made all sorts of people from all walks of life from parts of the world and one of the favorite things I like to obstacle is. Do you have a favorite holiday destination that you get a white too? Yeah well I'm well in. Australia is suddenly becoming goal. Cost but in the world across the world I really love a Europe suspended France. My my daughter's going to live in France at the end of this year for six months and site very nice for each for a little while. I have been looking forward to doing that as well. Have you been? Have you been that you've been about three years ago? I Madrid in San Sebastian I wasn't there for too long but I definitely place I would go back to for sure enough close it. sank other great places to electrons in Portugal in different weight loss. Yeah Jim Close. Nassir knows what's I What's skill that you haven't yet mastered? I'd have to say Gulf. That's potential a very humbling. That Sport Yeah. Yeah exactly and for being patient doesn't I'll save it for when I'm old. Maybe I I I have a seven on that in in my car and it sits next to the driver seat door so wrought next to the door and every now and then went on driving home from the city here in Sydney. There's a driving range just on the way home and all during the around there it's like Bob Wa Ataba Bolster Twenty Boxing. Gallons smack one hundred. It's actually with attain. Is Boy too? It's the thing that I actually do with him. Quite often and and We really enjoy that. Him and he's sport is Lacrosse just five days of the tournament for the end nineteen so. That's not my sport that I'm really good lacrosse. Mom Soccer Mom Lacrosse. Mum Runner Lacrosse Mom. Which is more American? Bits Strat Lean level so he's doing good northbound or last question for the podcasting Hudson. What's the what's best place of business advice that you've received disdain consistent so even when you're not feeling it in the day just to do an amount that will will take you forward that consistency will will really pay off and it does chipping away at it no matter what every back well into that just about wraps it up for the show tonight if people want to connect with you? What's the best way to do that? Vostochny easiest ways Marson on facebook with into Marcin H. Space and send us a message today. That's the that's the fastest way Yeah probably the easiest that way studies in some instagram and Youtube. Is Linda Morrison? The face looks the quickest awesome. And if you're listening to this show on your phone just title Show notes and all of the links to Linda's website and her social will be right there. And if you're watching this video on youtube to scroll on down and you'll see the links to her details right there in the show nuts before I let you go. I'd like to give my guests the opportunity to leave us with a parting comment or potty bit of wisdom. What have you got I? I would decide to say that if you do have a wants to to build a business to help people to APP absolutely secret that and go for. There's a way to find out how to do that. And it can be your side hustle. You don't have to give up your day. Job Gets though I loved going. Only myself this way actually accessing. You know I really am amazing business and people that can actually help you so two absolutely Explorer and go for it. You're not going to know how to do it. Straight away that that's that's okay. Yeah you'll be said and thank you again for sharing and thanks for coming on the Goalline Show. We look forward to speaking with you soon. It's by for now having everybody while they avid folks. If you want to connect with Linda just take a little bit. You find in all of the links to her website and associates right there in the show notes. So you don't have to poke around in Google form and watching you saw on Youtube discolor on down and all of the details of right there in the show notes as well. Now if you've got a message or some feedback for the show you can reach out via the goal in socials. We can send me an email at anytime. Just visit goal in DOT COM dot EU to find out more. Well that wraps it up for the show today so whatever it is that you're working on whatever you do get busy. Get to it and go all in. I'll see you next on Habits Oh bird third added. Show don't Sir.

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November 13  Hour 1  CSU Falls Hard to Boise State | Kevin Lytle Calls In

The Hull Show ? 1310 KFKA

40:47 min | 5 months ago

November 13 Hour 1 CSU Falls Hard to Boise State | Kevin Lytle Calls In

"Five minutes after the hour afternoon. Welcome to football friday here on the whole show powered by energy or live from the auto collision specialists studios. Thanks for being with us joining me to start this thing up. I believe kevin lytle from fort collins colorado and on the road leaving leaving the blue and maybe feeling a little blue. I think a lot of rams fans feel that way. Kevin friend good heavy on the show. Thanks for having me brady how you today. You know. I didn't think colorado state would win that game kevin. I really didn't but i gotta tell you man. One of my keys to the game was punting. Believe it or not was changing the field. And i think it's safe to say boise state kind of won that battle. Change the field a little bit you you could say that have just just baffling honestly it you know. Or what. Twelve plus hours later fifteen hours later and still kind of hard to wrap your head around. Exactly how bad that was three blocked. Well two blocked punts a blocked field goal all taken to the end zone. There's a lot to unpack here. But first and foremost i don't care if only get into the steve adagio as the special teams guy. Who's john goodman in this scenario but avery williams has a history of being a fantastic special teams player. Okay one time. He goes untouched. that's crazy. second time he goes untouched. What are we doing out there. Yeah it's pretty wild and years spot on avery. Williams williamstown broncos fans. If you remember david bruton guy who kind did everything special teams star every williams kind of that guy. I think he's not really a great defensive back. I think he'll probably make a long living in the nfl. Because this special teams but still. I know that you know that. I any random. Joe who's watched boise state more than twice knows that so. It's not like that's the secret so i would think they would be ready for him and stephen sayre kinda and he took the blame. He said it says fall. He's leads that unit but they also yeah basically said well guys miss them calls and and that's what happens. Well great but the happen. I mean Boise state obviously. Did some things that you just didn't handle and three blocked kicks in frasier and then have them all be touchdowns returned for touchdowns we have. Even touchstone boise say almost returned a punt for a touchdown with a trick play and they ended up fumbling at the end of so in in Pseudo positive play for as you buy special teams almost like even worse than it did. Yeah kevin the big story to start was obviously hang myer where we're announcing that he's gonna go but we didn't see him for very long time into the game and really throughout the game because of like you said. As soon as the return for touchdown we go back. And it's almost that we barely saw boise. State star quarterback fact is crazy gift. You had three three out before boise state's such the ball Because see a few and went three. And now had the puck block for touchdown three and out the punt. That like i said boise state almost reached for down but fumbled at of the business. Is he got the ball again. Went three and out again on their way. And then boise. State's i drive. They went for a touchdown. So that point it's all made quote unquote fourteen. Nothing but honestly that felt like game over already. I mean just being in the stadium You know with everything that happened. You know it was only five minutes into the game basically but with how it had happened. You're you're sitting there going i. I think this one's done and sure enough fourteen. Nothing was kind of the best part of the game. Got worse from there. I yeah no question about it kevin. What is the status then. So steve adagio he. He's the speed is he. Actually the special teams coach. Then yeah so i. A lot of people. I think went into the coaching roster game. And you see. No one has specialties. Next to their name which is obviously weird. 'cause i love talking brief as the game You would think that one of them would have a coach but no it stephen. He said he's done that for for a long time. He says i'm really good. Special teams have had lots of success with it. I run that that group And honestly we're now kind of having a conversation. We had with mike bobo You know how often did we talk about okay. Mic bomas is a great offense migrate playcaller. But can you do both Now it's kind of same thing. You know special teams a little different than play calling. It's maybe not as involved during the game. still you know. Ten coachella likes to be involved in everything in the dossier talked a lot about how he practiced he'll bounce around group to group to group. And you want to his md all of it so you do kinda wonder well how much time. But i think. I think we lost kevin. Lytle there yeah. He's right John goodman at least according to see us you. Rams dot com is listed as teams quality. Control i don't know what that is like. If you're not the head. I would imagine that some kind of a coaching position. Okay we got kevin back. Kevin lost a little bit there. I just think it's interesting. I'm asking you. John goodman is listed and not that john goodman John goodman is listed as a special teams quality control. And you got a few that with a lot of teams quality control. There's you know people just trying to get cute with it. But what exactly is john goodman's role with colorado state football. Yeah for news. Basically on your graduate assistant type. She's not one of the whole time. Assistant coaches obviously. He plays a role in that. And it's helping coach to have but Yeah they're they're g as they for every group right and obviously they help with a lot of things. They'll breakdown film helps to do some personnel stuff. But they're not. Think i leaving it. Basically if it's not one of your can You know a bowl full assistance. Each you know you can t eighteen camp. Ken full assistant tickets. Not one of those then basically. It's not their role. They play a part in it. But it's not. There's a completely handle so. Dan goodman's firemen but Dog free and clearly said you know this is all made. This is my job and obviously it went pretty sideways on one hand. You hear you hear a coach at the beginning season so hey i'm good at special teams. I value special teams. So i'm taking it personally. I'm going to be coaching it. So i mean some some people could say okay well. He's not just sloughing it off. He's really caring about it. But on the other side is you said it's a head coach. We're seeing that with the broncos with vic fangio. maybe there's too much guy can't call a timeout. Because he's too concerned about what defensive played a call in this case. You missed obvious. And again if they're missing reads or they're missing signals at the line. Okay but avery williams. I mean y- he blocks at once next time around if i don't have a body on that guy something bad's happening there so yeah i think maybe it's a case of just way too much going on for coach. I we've seen ally. It's really head coaching really difficult. There are so many things that go into it so it's a hard thing to do And yeah i think it's. It's kind of ironic. I guess we'll say what you were saying about Young people saying okay. Well maybe it's good. They so invested in the special teams. I think that makes sense. Because he was so bad at special teams under mike volvo. I think the general idea of coach really intent on how important they are. That's good like. I love that female put so much stake in them again it's just troublesome when you have issues like this it'd be one thing you missed field goal or a blocked by those happened ampara football but with as bad that was that was an eyebrow raiser yeah no question kevin lionel joining us for the fort collins colorado and again. You know you're getting you're getting some fans saying well you take away all those bad special teams plays and maybe this is a closer game. Who knows but. I mean to be real honest kevin. We didn't see you on that pie. If it wasn't blocked boise state's probably receiving it pretty good field position and then hanged bach. Maier goes down. So i have a hard time with that because again i think you noted it in the colorado and See issues defense a lot. Seven of nine third down conversions in the first in the first half so it wasn't exactly like everything else was os it well oiled machine for the rams. It is very weird to look at the stat sheet and see the you know had more plays had more total offense yards but it's hard to really put too much stake in because how different would have called the game if it going differently. I mean basically as soon as aren't they well before halftime. They basically knew it was in the bags and be somewhat conservative. And just make sure you don't make mistakes so so yeah. I think it's hard to say. Oh if you don't have those kicks plots here good chicks you didn't have the kick those ing and we did. Yeah no it's it's hard to come back on that and say anything like then again. We don't know what that offense really would've would've looked like rough one overall All right kevin. Let's get back to this because we're gonna have fun with this all year patrick. O'brien wasn't really the issue. It wasn't like he was having a monster game. But you put todd ceo in late. And he's running. He has some nice runs there. But is there any reason to believe. We're going to have another quarterback somewhat controversy here leading up to unlv. Yeah i mean you have to wonder just the way these decisions have gone. I i still think it should be patrick. O'brien just the way. The roster's built Find tale like you said it. Had a couple of bright moments. I drive was really good. Drag started third quarter quarterback after that didn't really work Yeah they had adagios said postgame that they had wanted to get into in for a drive and the first half but flow the game. it didn't work out and that's what makes sense to me. Okay man for a dry tutoring there but not do the switching a over a full half or quarter back and forth. So i think. Probably the o'brien but Clearly that sort of an uncertain situation right now. Another weird issue there and again. We're talking a week ago. And steve adagios the hero. This ram seems get back on track. They beat a rival. When you lose like this i mean. I don't know a lot of people. That pixie issue to beat boise state but when you lose like this special teams obviously then quarterback questions you get really really concerned for the rest of the season. Yeah exactly. I mean the way escalate. I don't think many of us have seen a game absolutely that quickly and then like you say just the bigger picture there some some decisions. I guess that that were kind of concerning for van damme using the special teams issues and they're even further in the second. Half see scores to six to three touchdown dances like they were about to come back and beat them or anything. All the sudden after you went really conservative penins from Yellow like four and one just inside their own. Twenty five a couple of times when You know. I certainly didn't seem benefit from funding. We're going to happen. Is you go for on fourth and fail. But also i down three or four touchdown. So yeah i think things like that were concerning fans has gone they Basically just you hang out coached in every phase yesterday power to play sports. Poll question is up. Kevin okay with four games remaining after seeing that from the boise state game. Unlv at home your air force which. I don't know what's going to happen there at san diego state at home against utah state. Do you see the rams realistically how many how many wins. Do you see this team pulling off in the next four. Yeah i mean it's a tough question. I unfortunately i think you're spot on. That four is probably very optimistic. Number of games even play. But let's just say they're all gonna happen and do that and you see if you should be. You know the you know the somewhat similar situation new coaching staff with the roster isn't very good to be frank At san diego i think is a very tough one. I would not expect when that utah state and frankly and told disasters as you should win that one kind of the air force game sort of swing game Because they're really hard to read right now. Honestly i would call that tossup right now with both the would be issues. Both those teams have had Like you say. I'm not even sure that game's gonna happen but let's hope it does but i think state. Unlv very winnable san diego state probably hard to see a win and so air force is one you win and go free and one over four. You'd be feeling fairly early. Good yeah no. I think you're exactly right. I mean that's optimistic for sure if they find a way to beat. Unlv and you make You make a weird season. New coach new situations losing more jackson. Obviously those kind of things. I would take that especially after the night. Rams fans had last night kevin appreciate. I know you're driving. Nabet when you get back we'll be looking out for you in the colorado and on twitter and see what you're putting together for us. Thanks so much for having me brady time and be careful. All right kevin lytle fort collins colorado and tough game who fifty two to twenty one boise state wins this game and i said twenty four thirteen but i gotta say this man and i know i got. I got textures. You said to take the point spin mice. I said if if the rams complete keys to victory they win this thing. Right number one ryan stonehouse has to punt control. The field control the field colfax and judging by the sound of these here. I don't think they control the field in their favor. The top punters in the country. They're hoping he doesn't get blocked. Touchdown avery williams. Avery williams is a monster onstage. He has seven career. Special teams touchdowns. I don't know if that was before after last night. But he blocked two punts. Here's another one other kick score. It's dj shrimp all the recovery. And that's not all there was also the two putts and of course. A kick robert lists their kicker to left cleese boots that is blocked. He's going to have to track somebody down. This is cutting who makes a fumble earlier another special teams play for the broncos. Cutty hope ninety plus yards to bring this back the eick's that's just awful. There's no other way to look at. It didn't really have a chance. There was a lot of issues in that game but really colorado say had no prayer and listen to some things you can take away and dante. Right stud trade mcbride stud. I mean you're still getting all those things like those guys are just good and we talked about that. Being a key to the game to that dante writes probably. They're probably going on him. He only had five receptions but hundred nine yards on this reception of forty yard reception. Trae mcbride four receptions for the touchdown late in the game. But yeah i mean scott patch. He's kind of. He's got a bright spot you know. They're sack for him. So he's he's been aggressive on the defensive side but overall if you're walking away pretty concerned about this team i can see why power play. Sports poll question of the day with four games remaining. How do you think the rams are gonna win zero one. Two three four definitely not going to be four. If that's where you're going on that side. I don't means zero. I think they could win. One game But the whole agains are forty two percent of the whole against say one. You got one more win so that would mean colorado state walks away with two wins on the season that would be Certainly that'd be a rough start to steve adagios career with colorado state. Twenty two minutes after the hour gonna take a short break a lot to get to today. We will not have. Cody rourke on. He's our broncos insider we feature friday but we have zak stevens on the program from. Dnv are broncos. We talked to him every monday. We're double dipping with mr stevens today. So we'll talk to him. it's football. Friday broncos raiders see you stanford in the buffs start the season two and a lot of big football coming up and again the other thing is we're watching which games get canceled. It's happening a lot throughout the throughout the day today. So whole show powered by energy. We'll be right back catch inside the bears and presented by chris. Musa agency allstate. Insurance tuesday nights northern colorado's voice. Thirteen ten kfi k. Dan patrick the whole show in. Colin cowherd are on northern colorado's voice. Thirteen ten. kfi a. Hey this is mark. Johnson voice to the colorado buffaloes and you're listening to the hall show with my body brady ho on thirteen ten kfi back welcome back the whole show powered by energy rough go. There's an eye. Special was tubing in fairness colfax. I have no control over that. I mean i would have never picked. The titans had not been because of the whole show curse. So i can't really blame me for that one. Yeah it's like what doesn't even count. I don't think it really. I don't think it really out now. So i mean had paid him because of the whole show curse and i mean can you beat occurs. Nobody can be curse now. No i've never seen it happen in history of my life so bear to scare blame you there. I don't i don't play at all. I picked ceus you to lose that game last night. I said it was gonna be defensive game. I mean you take away those twenty one points. At least it's not you know it's not like is absolutely crazy as we saw. You know you're still seeing thirty. One points scored by by boise. But oh boy. Yeah yikes scary times for colorado state elise today now again. Some bright spots for the rams and dante writing trae mcbride or are solid asia. Givens twelve carries for seventy six yards. But again by the time you get to the half you're kind of throwing out. You're throwing everything out you know you're not. It's a lot like the denver broncos but fortunately for denver. They haven't been down by that much with forty two seven at the half rough go. We're going to catch up. Was stevens here in just a moment. But derek carr had no. We're supposed to hate near a carbon. You can't help it. Like the dude he goes off just starts talking about how great denver's defense has been in the past and it was cool to hear quarterback have that much respect for defense but listen to these names. It'll just kind of make you a little bit depressed of of what we used to have. I got a lot of stories about the broncos especially when they have demarcus ware. Von miller me jackson you know. Tj award key to leave. Chris harris bradley roby. Like what player. We're supposed to run. Which one's gonna work you know brandon marshal all those guys. Darren stewart I i've got a lot of memories playing these guys I think i think one of Probably not my favorite memories but one of the memories. That pops into my mind is obviously of known. Vaughn play against von now for seven years. Although i won't plan this year. Never forget one of the first times. I played him. I literally caught the snap and as the ball was coming back to me. Vaughn was even with the football. And i remember catching the ball taking one step forward. I didn't even take a drop. I took a step forward. And he's sacked me. And i was just like what am i supposed to do. What am i supposed to do with that. You know and there was one of those moments where you leave to the base. You tell your kids about it as he's getting his goal jacket and all that kind of stuff also at home when he jumped on me like literally just took the ball from me and it happened so fast that i hit the ground and then was like where's the ball and he was already celebrating with it. How i don't know what you want me to do coach. i'm sorry But there's some memories of those kind of plays yeah depressing especially about von 'cause like we have still but we unfortunately with the injury Who knows might seem at the end of the season. Derek carr he might not be throwing the ball all over the yard. But he's one of the most efficient quarterbacks in the nfl so we'll talk about that. Will do broncos raiders preview. Coming up zak stevens going to join us coming up next but first facts. Let's get the latest on the local sports flash here mornings with gail weekdays. Six to nine and northern colorado's voice thirteen ten kfi k. Niko medved the men's basketball coach of the colorado state rams. You're listening to the hall show on thirteen ten. Kfi football friday continues. Here's stevens joining us. Normally zack jumps with us on a monday. We're getting set for the weekend here. It's a it's a pretty big game. Obviously rivalry time broncos raiders. But if the broncos wanna stay alive in the playoff hunt however unrealistic that may or may not be. This is a game. They need to find a way to win. Zak stevens joining us from dvr broncos zach. My friend always a pleasure. Thanks for for joining us again twice this week. Absolutely happy to jump on a friday man. Got some feel-good by today. As opposed to jumping on the monday blue. I do too. I'm optimistic about this. I know there's a lot of things that need to go right for this offense to get going but I guess we'll see how it plays out. Zack the the big story that continues to. I've been listening to some fangio's press conferences. I know you're in there. You're grilling coach doing a great job. But the tom mcmahon brandon. Mcmanus fig vic. Fangio that story's not going away if feels like this is another example of maybe vic is a head. Coach doesn't have control of all the angles. Yeah it seems like we're not getting the full story of what's going on You know after the game vick said what happened was tom. mcmahon told him pretty much to kick it or to not kick a field goal because brandon was ready for brandon. Heard that yesterday and said i was lights out before the game. I was hitting them before the game. I was good from fifty eight and then vic asked about it today You just kinda backs away from the question and so you know who wasn't comfortable with that. It seems like it was tom. Mcmahon who pass that message on vic fangio and and brandon. Mcmanus wasn't happy that that message was passed onto vic fangio. So i mean that wouldn't it have been first off. You go back to the decision. And i can see that you can see to your special teams coach as a head coach. You know what brandon mcmanus can do. You've seen him do it before that. So that decision kind of kind of bothers me. And then the fact that he mentioned what was mccain's decision and then then to hear mcmanus. Come back out and say no. I could have absolutely drilled. I was looking good in practice. So i don't know what he's basing that off of. It's just another one of these weird situations it just doesn't feel like there's control well and then another weird part of that situation when mcmanus spoke out about it on twitter yesterday. I think he put a hashtag on there. That was don't silence the players which which was asked about today and And didn't comment on at all. And that's just that's just bizarre. You know whatever that means. It's bizarre in this situation. And just as a whole nother layer of confusion to. What's going on such a weird. So i mean you just you just had the press. Are we good with those guys. I mean 'cause mcmanus's is a big part to this team. He's a rep for this team too. So it's not just a kicker in a great kicker do i suppose we should have reasonably. Things aren't good between the three of them. One of the things that vick set in and said while lapping was brandon typically never has a problem telling me what he's thinking of. What's going on but brandon hasn't talking about that this week so You would think that in mind that this is not a big deal. And it's completely over but brandon. Obviously you know what is it five days after. He was still talking about it on twitter. Clearly i of put it out of my brain. I was like well that sucked and talked about on monday and tuesday. And then you keep hearing about it. It's it's absolutely nuts but be bigger issues to outside of just the kicking broncos team starting to get healthy. That's the first thing right but shelby harris. Unfortunately not going to go weekend. Yeah shelby will not be ago. After alerting the broncos that he was a close contact with someone that tested positive for coke last week he the team did not decide or the decide to not have him travel to atlanta and that was turned out to be a really good decision. Because this week he comes out and does test positive for covid. So he's out. This week could be out the following week as well And it's a huge blow for the broncos because now the broncos for a second straight week will not have their entire starting defensive line and this week unfortunately it's even more impactful than it was last week because the raiders love to run the ball. They loved to turn around and handed off to josh jacobs every single game. The raiders have won. Josh jacobs has had twenty carries more. So that's going to happen again. This week i would imagine. They're going to feel very comfortable and on the opposite side of the ball. The broncos could be down to their fifth string right tackle which is just crazy to think about of course if you include john james and that conversation who opted out before the season going into the season yet to on james number one. He had wilkinson number two. He's still on the injured reserve Number three demar dotson right now. He's dealing with an injury baby able to play But it's not trending in the right direction for him. Jake rogers is your fourth string guy. He must practice yesterday And he may not play. So calvin anderson could be getting his first career. Nfl start this coming week. While they're pregnant. You play right tackle next week if it keeps going. I mean i. I'm paying attention when i'm out of practice. You do film study. I like it so obviously the right tackle situation my goodness. I don't know how you recover as you mentioned on the fifth guy now but at least some good news here. Name's aj boy bryce callahan huge losses last week. Getting those guys back and then if the tight end situation is terrifying noah fant keeps getting healthier and healthier. So you're getting more guys back not just back but also guys that have been banged up playing. They're feeling better. Yeah going to really have to rely on those three guys. That you mentioned noah fant bryce callahan and aj boy especially with you. Don't work with not having shelby harris on the defensive. Line my game. Plan against the raiders. This week by vic fangio defend is to sell out to stop the run. And then just rely on on your secondary justin verlander to cover darren waller and Bryce callahan jay boy to take care of nelson aguilar hunter renfrow and of course henry ruggs on the outside and if those guys beat you well they beat the highest paid secondary in the nfl. So good for them. But you can't have josh jacobs beyond the ground. And then they'll be two dimensional if that happened and that that is a formula for defeat if the oakland raiders are able to throw the ball and run the ball on you so to me on reliant on that secondary to hold the raiders in check. They they don't have to shut them down but they can't allow you know eight or three eighty yards touchdowns in this game. They allow one. Because the broncos defense sells out to stop the run you can live with that But you can't live with the raiders. Just being able to pound the ball on the ground all day stevens joining us from denver broncos and i love that match up to very intrigued by that. Darren waller verse. Justin simmons see how that one plays out on the offensive side of the ball looking at a running back situation. We feel like we keep saying each and every week zach. But it's the truth. We still have yet to really see the gordon lindsay thing take hold For the most part they just haven't been out on the field together at the same time on the roster but last week and the week before that we're just we're getting down early so you're avoiding the run. The broncos of talked a lot about committing to that run. What does that look like does. Is it as simple as saying well. We're going to add more runs or they are they scheming like crazy trying to figure out how to better run block throughout the throughout the game. Yeah i mean i. It's all of the above their brady and and especially early on the broncos cannot just take their foot off the gas when running the ball even if they're down ten points in the first quarter. They can't do that. And that's something that offensive coordinators do all the time when they get down they panic and that you can't do that for this running game. You can't do that to drew lock because that will end very poorly especially with the fourth or fifth string right tackle in there for the broncos. So what they have to do is they just have to pound the ball over and over and over again and brady. You've only really seen the broncos have phillip lindsay and melvin gordon both healthy and one game this year and regardless if they've been healthy or not we have not seen the phillip lindsay. Melvin gordon dynamic. The broncos won and this season phillip lindsay has the fifth highest yards per carry from running back in the nfl at five point eight yards per carry. He's ran the ball over ten times in a game once once he had more than ten carries in the game Yet being the fifth best running back in terms of yards per carry And on the On the other hand phillip lindsay has really struggled in the past game. he's really struggled In allowing pressures i believe his crusher rate is ten percent when he's back there to pass protect which is not good for a running back and then out of the backfield. He's caught two passes this entire season. And he's dropped two passes. He has many drops as he does catches this year so really struggling. So what i would do. If i'm If i'm pat shurmur is i hit my hand and i'd be okay. We're doing that. In saying with. Melvin gordon is out there. It's probably going to be a pass when phillip lindsay is out. There is probably going to be a run in an ideal. You don't wanna do that but you know what it's not working the way it is right now have phillip lindsay being there on running plays in just say phillip. Lindsay is better than your defense. You probably know run. It's coming but you know what he's going to get me six yards per carry. And then when. Melvin gordon in there. You're saying yes probably going to be pass. But you know but he's better he's going to be able to slow down your rushers and he's going to be able to catch balls out of the backfield so that's what i would do In play to your strengths. Because that seems to make sense lindsay overall and again everything that you just pointed out makes perfect sense as to why. They've shied away a little bit from giving him way more carries and having more involved but hit the last two years collectively. He's been the most consistent. So i know broncos fans wanting to see phillip lindsay with a big production type game coming even that game against the chargers had a few carries. He just busted along one there so the numbers are a bit deceiving. Are at the other storylines aca. We've got we got kickers. Who got fifth string right. Tackle running back. Oh by the way drew lock continues to be the theme of the broncos. What can we expect from him. He saying all the right things to you guys he saying. Hey i got to get it. Right i gotta take take a slower. I gotta look for my gotta go through my progressions. But at the end of the day broncos countries not going to be happy until they see it on the field. And what needs to happen from drew is consistency. Like we've talked about. He's been great these past two fourth quarter. He's put up twenty one points in each of those two fourth quarters however the other eighteen quarter. He's played this season. He's averaging three and a half points per quarter which is equivalent to about fourteen points per game which is second worst and the nfl. Only to the new york jets. We need to see somewhere in between he does not need to be mister fantastic in the first second third and fourth quarter he just needs to be good and average and that would be good. That would be a step in the right direction because you can't play great in the nfl. Ten percent of the time and then really below average six gently below average the other ninety percent. What what we need to see him do is play good. Eighty percent of the time. Great ten percent of the time and he can be bad ten percent of the time because quarterbacks going to make mistakes especially young one so this is going to start without running game going to start by taking some pressure off drew and then setting him up for easy passage and get him on the move. He's so clearly wants to be on the move and you see it so much in fact that he goes on the movie even when he's not supposed to in those situations he's throwing up back foot As pat shurmur said yesterday he he resorts back to basketball as where he shooting fade away. And you can't have that so what you need to do is just put him in good situation. So it's something that we've been preaching for a long time and still really haven't seen it but risking guerrillas often seemed to work with with drew lock last year when he was on the move. So that's what i would do at the start of the game Very interesting on that side of one more. His looking at a guy like derek carr. He's not like throw it at all over the place having monster numbers each and every week but he's very efficient and i think that to me is a key a key stat to look at because especially if you have a good rushing attack all you need to do is really not turn it over and just be effective. We need to be. That seems to be derek cards doing this season. Their car has been the perfect quarterback for the raiders this year when they need him to manage a game. That's exactly what he. He does not make mistakes when they need him to take over a game. That's what he does and he's capable of doing that. That's how the the raiders went into kansas city and beat the chiefs and put up forty points on the chiefs to hand them their only lot this year. Derek carr through seven percent completion. Three hundred fifty yards three touchdown had a passer rating of one hundred and twenty seven in that game. Just absolutely incredible. But then you look at a lot of the other games. He's had two touchdowns no picks one touchdown no pick He's throwing one hundred and eleven yards two weeks ago to beat the browns. Sixteen to six Week through one hundred and sixty five yards But the the raiders still put up thirty one points he is. He has mr efficient sixteen touchdowns to only two interceptions this year. So he is not going to lose the game for the raiders That's why you have to take away the part that will win. The game for the raiders. And that's the running rushing attack but you can't count on. Derek carr making silly mistakes because he's just simply not going to do that now. You're you're exactly right. Zac appreciate you man. I know you're putting together pre-game stuff for us throughout the weekend But again throw where folks can find you twitter and of course They can subscribe today to dvr. Absolutely i and i'm on twitter at zak stevens. Dan vr brady. I really appreciate the non and love being on twice a week with the event we love looking at it. Look forward to each and every week here and you lay it out so perfectly for us Do you have a prediction for us. i do. i'd man. I'll tell you what i love this game for the broncos at the beginning of the week not just to cover the four points spread that they're facing this. We put to win the game straight up but yesterday in the past few days when the news of shelby harris coming out and the news. Tomorrow dawson not looking. Good for this game man. I can't take the broncos to win. I i can't take him to cover the spread either. I'm going thirty one to twenty six. Raiders the raiders at that magic number of thirty one points. They've won every game when they've put up over thirty points this year and four of their five wins. They've dropped over thirty. So i think it happens again against a defense that they're going to be able to run again. I think the offense picks up a little earlier in this game but still they struggle When they went when they need to come up the most so they fall short again. Next man you can. You can say before e. affects the roster. Zac appreciate and enjoy the game. Have a great weekend. Our ad right on brady look forward to talking to you after the game. Harmon that zak stevens. Dvr broncos great guy great reporter fifty one minutes after the hour will take a short break. Wrap up our number. One i still gonna talk to you and stanford in the can the buffs go to know. Buffs are going in action again this weekend. Believe we're going to get carl durell on the program next week head coach for the buffalo. So this is the whole show powered by energy. We cover it all here man and we're just getting started. You're listening to the hall's show powered by energy and thirteen ten kfi. Ed brady will be back after the break up party. Northern colorado's force thirteen ten kfi k. The block party wednesdays from florida ten pm page dan. Patrick you're listening to my pal brady hall. Check out the whole show on northern colorado's football station thirteen ten k. f. k. Tell the top of the hour. Broncos or raiders. We can the i. I think it's an important game. Our guy those acts stevens. I you know the injuries just just piling up for denver and it's hard to overcome. That shelby is going to be a huge miss in this game. Especially when you have a team that can run. So buster williams talking about pursell and shelby harris. And how you know the these guys. Some of the best defensive lineman a lot abou- guys like per cell and being without him without shelby harris. It's a it's a tough. Go and so windy you stop. Stop saying next man up because it doesn't it doesn't always work especially if you're on your fifth right. Tackle most teams. Don't even carry more than three right tackles. But you're in a case where you're on your fifth so i don't know man. It's going to be a difficult task for sure but losing guys like i said on the defensive side without shelby harris this game. And then you've been without. Mike pursell tough situations for this broncos team mars second. Our football friday continues. We we wrap it up a notch coming up in the second hour. See you take it on stanford this week as well more. Recap and afterthoughts of csu boise state. That was bad. And we'll broncos raiders. What are the broncos. Have to do to win this thing. We'll be right back.

broncos colorado avery williams kevin vic fangio rams steve adagio Zak stevens kevin lytle phillip lindsay john goodman John goodman kfi Derek carr football steve adagios raiders fort collins brandon williamstown broncos
Catching Up on Recent News

The Dave Gram Show on WDEV

1:28:49 hr | 1 year ago

Catching Up on Recent News

"From radio vermont it's the dave graham show on w._d. It's your show about the people places and the issues that matter the most of you now. Here's your host dave graham good morning vermont. It is monday august the nineteenth two thousand and nineteen and <hes>. We have have a good show lined up for you this morning regular monday morning guests colin mine is back with us today. He's the managing editor of b._t. Dig dot oregon. We're gonna talk about a number of issues that have gone on in vermont right now that are being reported on by that terrific online news site later in the program. <hes> another returning champion will be with us. Dan richardson is highly regarded regarded attorney in montpellier former president of the vermont bar association and he will be talking with us about some strange doings by involving aside the judge up in the northeast kingdom as well as just overall questions about whether vermont's an eighteenth century tradition of having side judges be very powerful participants in our court system really makes sense in this twenty first century and there's been a lot of debate about the senate judiciary over the years <hes> inside judges continue hanging hanging in there even though many of them are most of them don't have don't have law degrees so interesting situation there anyway <hes> let's get ready ready new with <hes> with colin mine and <hes> collin. Thanks for joining us this morning. Always a pleasure and <hes> wanted to check in with you about a couple of things going on one. Is this actually i i we had a little discussion about it on the day. Graham show <hes> sometime in the last couple weeks but <hes> williamstown was debating debating whether to allow a._t._v.'s brought access to <hes> town roads and i see that that is spreading around other parts of vermont <hes> justin trombley v._d._i. Dot org headed through ryota cra- aspiration talking about this a similar issue. Yeah it's playing out all across the northeast kingdom. You know the question of how much access to give a._t._v.'s the public roads you know do you <hes> allow them to ride on all roads <hes> along with paths the roads often connect those a._t._v. has or do you sort of give them very limited access s. based on what they need <hes> the debates happening in montgomery and holland and hardwick and sutton <hes> and as you said just in focused on crafts berry where they just had a vote vote on tuesday last week that really divided the town <hes> the story that he wrote starts with the select board chair saying that no issue in his thirty years or something. I'm sort sort of involvement in local politics has divided the town as much as <hes> this question of how much road access to give all terrain vehicles <hes> and there was sort of a the new rule that was written <hes> that actually made <hes> increased access somewhat but atv riders wanted more access so they reopened the debate <hes> sorta in a way shot themselves in the foot because <hes> ended up going the other direction and they rolled back by vote of one hundred and nine to eighty six the rules that had had been passed a couple of years ago <hes> so there's now very limited access for atv riders <hes> in crafts berry <hes> but the story really gets into a bigger sort of cultural question question of whether a._t._v.'s are apart of the quintessential vermont is experiences one woman put it who is opposed to having a._t._v.'s on the road in this idea that you know people who sort of come to vermont for a nice quiet relaxed <hes> you know natural place that sort of having a._t._v.'s roaring by their houses or <hes> she described a scene where a bunch of a._t._v. riders was <hes> set up shop next to her pond and had a party late at night then her mind that is not part of what vermont should and could be an interesting. I i guess there is a culture clash element to it and <hes> <hes> what what question that i that's occurred to me about this. Is that <hes> i do. We censor atv use in general is on the upswing. Do we have an idea in the a._t._v.'s being sold that more people are riding for more miles etc. That's not just an expert in the story. I'm not sure about that because you know i i wonder about these in a in a in a slightly larger context which would also probably involved. I don't know things like jet ski or personal watercraft after that people use on lakes and so on <hes> wh- a on an on another day on the day graham show or in any any place in in our in our society really people are talking all the time about trying to reduce carbon footprints in and fight climate change and so on and <hes> <hes>. How does this love for a._t._v.'s square with that. Yeah i mean it's a good question and you know perhaps <hes> a._t._v.'s have become more environmentally friendly over time although <hes> certainly the way they sound down doesn't seem like they are <hes>. You know terribly fuel efficient <hes> and you know that was not sort of the angle of this story that we pursued sued certainly <hes> a question worth asking yeah i just i find it fascinating that and i understand that there's a <hes> is a certain thrilled to zipping speedily up and down these <hes> these little roads and <hes> some of them are <hes> interesting in terms of terrain and hills and curves and all that fun stuff and i can imagine agean the if you're on an atv <hes> that's gotta be a little bit of an adrenaline rush or maybe a an adrenaline rush for folks but it is tough tough to square the the idea a._t._v.'s racing by with anybody's notion of of <hes> you know waking up here in the birds chirping and going for going for quiet white walk on your dirt country road and that's that's the other kind of vision. I think that <hes> this woman had just interviewed was talking about here. <hes> <hes> yeah and the other aspect that people talked about us sort of how do you enforce rules you know so if you create a contract between a._t._v. riders and the town given town <hes> then who's making sure that a._t._v.'s writing <hes> the speed limit usually rose will be posted for both cars and a._t._v.'s so you'd have thirty five miles an hour for cars and twenty five miles an hour a._t._v.'s t._v.'s or something like that <hes> and you know state police say that they cannot really chasing down. A._t._v.'s is not safe and not something that they're interested in doing so it requires <hes> involvement of other law enforcement either the county sheriff or the local <hes> police <hes> for crafts berry. They talked about having a constable do enforcement of the constables. Only there a few days a week and it's hard for him to get anywhere so essentially what they're asking people residents to do is you you know if they see violations of atv <hes> rules to call that in our report it self report and then we'll get followed up on eventually but it's just not very efficient officiant <hes> law enforcement system so there are these organizations the a._t._v. association that partners with <hes> you know they they essentially pay the town to to hire law enforcement officials to enforce the rules for their own members which seems to be an effective way of going about things but <hes> sort of system that crafts berry has not adopted at this point. I wish some people say it sort of makes their contract. <hes> futile interesting story would and as you say is playing out in many communities across vermont <hes> has has anybody come up with sort of what the standard best practice a solution is in other words. I mean i can imagine a town saying <hes> okay okay. Here are certain roads that you can use <hes>. I dunno certain days of the week i mean i would imagine if you have <hes> <hes> road a road bean road see maybe they take turns as being the place where a._t._v.'s can go or something and then other days they can be the place to take a quiet walk. I don't know exactly how this works but <hes> or limited hours. I don't know whether there's any any <hes> minute he said all this stuff is hard to enforce but i mean is there any kind of a compromise. It could be achieved by my underlying question here. Yeah i mean i think the the solution that some towns says working is that you negotiate gate <hes> that sort of agreement that you're talking about you know sort of broad road access limited to certain hours and time of day that sort of thing <hes> keeping them off private property <hes> but then you know having this association. Basically you know agreeing to expand a t._v. Access <hes> in exchange for having the association <hes> pay the town to hire law enforcement to enforce those rules <hes> and you know as with any compromise. Certainly i think a._t._v. riders are always going to want more for <hes> sort of ability to ride where they choose and the times that they choose <hes> obviously people who <hes> value things like quiet and peace <hes> <hes> you know we'll want less of it but that if everyone sort of equally pissed off then you've got yourself a t._v. Compromise <hes> interesting stuff here. Are you all to try to following this issue as it continues to percolate along on the back roads of vermont where a._t._v.'s atv enthusiasts love to ride their machines used to be on the back roads. That's that's that's the challenge here. They're moving to move into the big roads to to to the main roads sewer they do you see them now a lot on paved roads out there. Is that the picture you know the classic route being the old dirt roads up in up in the hills and so on but maybe there are they coming down main street these days or what was the deal well. That's that's the question playing out here is where. Where do you want. Allow them to get all right. We'll keep an eye on it <hes> hey the democratic party organization in your organization lis having some problems keeping track of their money. I guess basically what's going on. Yeah so <hes> longtime operations director a guy named brandon bait them who it was you know pretty well known in <hes> certainly in political circles and democratic political circles in particular <hes>. There's a statement came out a few weeks ago saying that he had allegedly embezzled about three thousand dollars from the party. <hes> you know which is kind of small chains as far as you know political. <hes> embezzlement goes but at the same time you know it's not very often that that kinda claim comes out here in vermont <hes> so he had already resigned at the point that they explain that <hes> they confirm that sort the reason he had stepped away from the party was because these allegations <hes> and over the weekend here <hes> the vermont democratic party put out a much sort of more extensive statement eight -ment describing what had happened and also said that he had allegedly embezzled something closer to twenty thousand dollars in a variety of ways part of it is <hes> he didn't actually have have the <hes> authority to sign checks but he in many ways sort of arranged the party's finances so they're alleging that brandon did things like <hes> skim money off the payroll gave himself <hes> <hes> sort of an unofficial raise <hes> you know falsified mileage <hes> return return money to himself for personal purchases <hes> and a bunch of stuff like this <hes> and apparently it came to light. The person who does have sort of financial authority in the party is the executive director which is a hired position <hes> and the party's executive director recently left <hes> <hes> and the chairman <hes> terry anderson stepped in and started serving that function <hes> as he was doing that sort of started to see some of these payments to brennan bathe it just didn't look quite right and look further into it and found that indeed <hes> he felt that they were improper so they put together a five page document and confronted brandon and <hes> he left the party the and now with these latest accusations they have also filed a police report so it's quite likely that something like criminal charges are going to start coming out of this yeah and <hes> there was another departure of the executive director recently also <hes> there. There isn't any of this kind of shadowed directly there is there was is connected at all yeah i mean that connection hasn't been made and we haven't been able to contact the former executive director to find out <hes> sort of what he was aware of and why he was signing writing checks that <hes> apparently were not really proper expenses. There's no claim at this point that he was involved in it or knew of it <hes> but certainly strong strong signs of weak oversight <hes> and sort of mismanagement of the party's finances yeah this is <hes> you know when when when he's outfits have large turnover and and also <hes> are <hes> mainly you're often mainly funded or operated by <hes> volunteers <hes> things you can get a little loose. Sometimes i think that i mean some of it looks like just <hes> a lack of double checking and oversight and <hes> you know an organization <hes> anytime anybody tempted if they have a sense that there's a lot of double checking and <hes> and sort of steady frequent auditing and so on and so forth that can that can kill off temptation like this but if you have a sense that nobody's really watching <hes> that can worsen the temptation asian i would think and so <hes> that may be the case here he. I'm brandon bay them. Was you know certainly in the kind of person who have a very cute sense of how closely people were. We're watching the party. You know it's a very small <hes> organization they spent something like four hundred thousand dollars <hes> on operational expenses last year and you know they <hes> contribute attribute <hes> ten thousand dollars here and there to different political campaigns but it's not a robust sort of party machine. <hes> you know it's interesting. Brandon seemed like sort of <hes> you know. He was a berry city council member for a number of years. He decided not to run <hes> in the last <hes> election and <hes> he was his chair of the buried democratic party and you know sort of a strong member of the community kinda guy we would reach out to to find out at b._t. Digger to find out what was going on a berry the latest issues where there <hes> so. I think it's quite surprising to a lot of people i didn't know brandon personally but <hes> you know this idea that someone who is common presence is at the state house and seem to sort of have aspirations of a long career in politics would put that career on the line for you know five ten twenty thousand dollars i mean part of me wants almost a little sad about it because i mean clearly bright guy he's young and and might have had a future in vermont politics in some fashion or another but i think pretty much you know if all of this isn't completely made up. He's pretty easily hurt his feature here for sure. Maybe can get back contract somewhere else who knows but <hes> <hes>. Let's see what else we got here. We have <hes> the macs mich- is arrested over the weekend apparently he <hes> got got caught on video outside the jurisdiction where you supposed to be philipson column yeah. I should say that this is a case of sources say at this point and <hes> we haven't actually been able to confirm whether max or police <hes> that he indeed i was arrested but <hes> that's what we've heard and <hes> it would make sense because last week we did a story <hes> saying he was found on a video <hes> which was apparently sent to police and then to the attorney general's office showing him clearly a ah bar in new york <hes> after <hes> conditions of release were set that did not allow him to go to <hes> <hes> outside of bennington county so <hes> the video he talks to the people at the bar where he says you know. I'm eight miles across the border. It would really be a <hes> a hell all of a thing for you guys to do to call me into police <hes> and report it. You know saying that he would not appreciate that and indeed. It seems like someone did that. <hes> he talked about the data jeffrey epstein which of course happened well after <hes> his latest quarter appearance in which these conditions of release were set <hes> so all evidence points to him again inviolate and you know we should say that max <hes> has proven to really enjoy the attention that comes with these court appearances <hes> with having the media assorted record 'em he often goes on sort of racist rant <hes> when given the opportunity and anti-semitism is also a big part of his <hes> stick <hes> and so that's likely that will be the scene. We have again today at the court. <hes> you know he sort of came to prominence <hes> for harassing kyw morris chris who is the only a black woman in the state legislature for quite some time so he's a bit of a notorious figure and <hes> you know the the story so far is that that authorities have not found any way to sort of keep him out of the public spotlight to put him in jail or to somehow sort of prevent him from doing this kind of stuff yeah i i guess <hes> he does seem to have a liking for this notoriety so <hes> let's hope that <hes> he manages to figure out a way to satisfy size liking without doing anything to outrageous <hes> now <hes> not to say either isn't already a bit about rage out there so <hes> but let's let's the max mich- oh i know what i was gonna do lost my train of thought for a minute folks <hes> michael from barry. Harry town is online good morning michael good morning dave. How are you today do a bit of information on a._t._v.'s. If you care for some years i was involved writing the laws governing a._t._v.'s and the problem was was unlike snowmobiles where they run on snow and when the snow melts there's very little if any evidence that they've been out there but with the a._t._v.'s the damage that is potentially caused by them can be enormous with results in erosion and a number we're of other issues and the over the years those machines have become more expensive and more powerful and even in areas where there are paved save trails. I mean pay dirt but they're they're groomed. This is not is of interest to a lot of these operators because they've got machines that are capable of going down bow down that could be twenty inches niamh eter and so they wanna get them off the road they wanna go through terrain is mind boggling frankly and it causes a lot of damage there there have been attempts by some areas areas to allow them on private land but frequently damage occurs to the land and so over the years there was a battle trying. They get the state to allow the use of state lands for use of these vehicles and the state always resisted. That was the the problem. It's just the damage that's caused. I remember this during the douglas administration. It was a big issue and <hes> i remember some some heavy duty debate in the legislature about uh opening opening of just one section of state highway or something that was designed. <hes> people thought it would connect a couple of off road atv networks or something and it burley was <hes> was a heated debate is probably now twelve years ago or so <hes> at the state house so yeah. This has been an issue for a while and it's interesting interesting. It's kind of coming to the fore game right now. Yeah and maine and new hampshire always had far better programs than for mont and it wasn't attractive to enter into reciprocity with for mont because the opportunities were so limited and again the connections on state roads to get to the various trails that you're just talking about with an issue but even apart from that <hes> primarily the the damage to the land that they traveled on was <hes>. I think that was the driver here all right well. That's an interesting perspective. I appreciate the historical review there. That's that's good to bring some of those issues up and and we we're gonna keep keep following it. I do. I do appreciate the call. Let's go to jim in berry good morning jim. I guess jim is given up so we are fast approaching a bottom of the hour break here and colin mind. Can you stay with us for a few more minutes. Do you have to get down to montpellier right away. What's your program this morning morning. We can do a few minutes okay. We're gonna we're gonna be back. <hes> we're gonna go to a break for some c._b._s. News in just a few seconds and <hes> and <hes> so a couple of words from our sponsors and we will continue our conversation with colin mind after the break. <hes> did one mention our podcast folks if you're just tuning in now and you wanna eh catch the whole conversation so bark. Don't forget about w._d. Radio dot com follow the link from that homepage to the dave ramsey show scroll down a bit and you'll find a list of our recent programs by guests topic etc. We'll be back after a couple. Minutes is c._b._s. News the words sponsors <music>. I wish i had a dollar for every compliment. I get about our selection upstairs at the warren store. The seasons collection boasts country casual clothing for men and women dresses for summer weddings and events baby clothing from soochow doodle pants and fairtrade jewelry from around the world old. I'm excited about a new line of pottery from londonderry vermont also illuminated paper stars for outdoor fun. It's a great day trip to warren village comfort lunch on the deck and upstairs for some unique retail therapy fun funky and friendly and almost world famous now the nave graham show on w._d. F._m. f._m. And a._m. And we are back doing it. In the second hour second half hour. I should say of our program for this monday morning august nineteenth. I believe we have still a couple. The callers on the line is <hes> is <hes> jim carey still on good morning good morning i i got cut off all the what i said those again i note yeah no grande and work telling occasional work woman a couple of times. <hes> i always kinda liked him. He's a nice guy <hes> but to characterize him as a long standing member of the city council is up to you as a pillar of the community and a large community. That's just not accurate at all back then twelve or thirteen to reporter then that a friend because it shows a lack of historical have branding the carpetbagger he arrived on the scene instantly never heard before and again four mailings day vote for for city council. He was a product of the committee. He's only served on the city council one year <hes> and said he wasn't a bad guy without with the state but he was clearly not a long standing member of the community barry even was there for two years maybe three or four tops <hes> and and also i know people on the democratic debates tickly tommy walls leslie these fine people and then they had to do with any you know this this actions of all about so anyway. I think it's important before we characterized people. <hes> the other reported to really know more than just the last couple years. Thanks okay. Thanks is this gonna tendon barney good morning yes good morning ted farris and bannock calling long <hes> regarding the atv issue in crafts berry. I was a selectmen and barnett for twelve years and that same issue came up in our town. It was terribly divisive. <hes> i lay the root of the problem at the feet of the legislature because was the legislature through the state collects sales tax and collects registration fee and completely dropped the ball on how to a us them where to use them or any regulation of them and his fallen to the town by default and the towns get no financial chill benefit for dealing with the problem. It was a tough debate. How did it resolve in brian it. I mean what's the current status of a._t._v.'s. Their current status is certain roads are open on an annual basis and there is an annual review of the roads which will be open and it has worked quite well and do you get many complaints from people who live along those roads about damage to the rows of selves damage to their private properties along the roads or how's that working out we had some nuisance complaints more than damage complaints <hes> largely we have encouraged the club which formed formed <hes> obviously there had to be a responsible organization and we didn't deal with individuals but when they formed a club we dealt with the club and we encourage them to be on private property and as far as i know there have been no private property complaints and when when a town opens itself up to a._t._v.'s on its roads or or <hes> you know gets known for having some good trails and so on <hes> does that attract a lot of folks from from other places to come in way certainly haven't seen a- no okay so so you're a._t._v. Traffic in barnet tends to be local garnered people yes. That's that's interesting. I mean i suppose the experience could vary from from chinatown in that regard but but i just sort of <hes> you know i. I think that any of these examples are useful as data points to <hes> to look at other things playing out over all the other the other part of the issue that i would like to address. I don't have an atv. I never have had one. I've used them in work as a forester <hes> on large holdings in there. They're are a great tool <hes> but i called my insurance agent to say the find out what the what the financial danger point was and i said that i'm gonna buy a big machine the hottest one they have and at that time several years ago the insurance cost one hundred and ten dollars so they really really can't be dangerous. If they were dangerous. It'd be five hundred <hes> or equal to a to an automobile or possibility ability. The insurance industry hasn't really caught up with the with the risks yet or what do you think about that. I don't think they're they're going to lose money. If they've got an opportunity to to make money yeah well you know. Stranger things have happened in from time to time and business but <hes> that's surprising let me one hundred ten bucks to ensure an atv <hes> and and what about the lie of potential liability and i can imagine an atv <hes> needing some some kind of liability coverage don't don't they or is it all a matter of personal injury and stuff. I i have no idea i just talked to my insurance agent and said this is what i'm interested in and and that's what they quoted me at that time and this was a couple years ago <hes> so it's less than a cup of coffee a day that is <hes>. That's quite <hes> quite quite striking. That really is something yeah. Everyone debt for sure thank you for having the discussion we had my sympathy goes goes out to rotary and crafts berry. I know the deal all right well. Thanks very much for the call ted already. Hey <hes> that is <hes>. That is a fascinating question about about how towns are going to regulate. A._t._v.'s should the states step up and do more mr yuri here. I'm sorry ted <hes> from from a barn. It was saying that he's disappointed. The legislature hasn't stepped up <hes> maybe suspects that that's because of the attractiveness to from a revenue new perspective of the registration fees and so on for a._t._v.'s <hes> the sales tax <hes> i. I don't know whether any anybody really is done that. Calculus sir so thoroughly or whether they're the connection. Is that direct. I suspect it's more like it's just a it's a it is a controversial thing and <hes> and it is one of these <hes> one of these issues that gets a lot of people <hes> get their backs up a little bit and <hes> so there's a i think a a natural shyness <hes> for a a lot of folks that would be the maybe the real answer here but who knows what's going on in your towns listeners on with atv policy. Do we <hes> have you gotten got into a place where the the machines are allowed to some extent. Are you happy with your local ordinances on a._t._v.'s. Apparently there's been some some heavy the debate about this and crafts for recording to the story just the town select board opened up the town's roads to a._t._v.'s and then they were reversed by the voters later <hes> and went back to a more restrictive policy and and so <hes> interesting developments there and and obviously far far from alone on this thing so so <hes> that is a <hes>. It's an issue that crops up from time to time and again. I remember there was some fairly heavy duty discussion about it around the state house house back during the administration of governor jim douglas so this would have been more than ten years ago now. <hes> that that the legislature was starting to weigh in and i remember the question there was where certain state highways going to become <hes> just pieces of them become <hes> links for trail networks so that you're you're on a trail. Remember this one place i don't remember exactly where but up in the northeast kingdom. I believe where there's a trail network. <hes> in half hour and a half mile down the state the highway there was an entrance to another trail network and the a._t._v. riders wanted to use that half mile stretch of state road to link the to make trips between these the networks and even that was <hes> was pretty <hes> pretty heavily debated back then so interesting questions the recur here in vermont overtime for sure so the many other <hes> there's a lot of other stuff that is going on around the state in the news and and <hes> you know as well as on on the on the national scene and i just want to open up the <hes> the phone lines for the next few minutes here on the dave graham show win. Invite folks to call in with whatever's on your mind. If you see something in the news that has caught your attention and you wanna make a comment about it or or see what <hes> see what the thinking of your host might be. If i have any offer i am. I am happy to happy to try to weigh in on wide variety stuff here. Is you know <hes> here's a question for you to our folks out. There worried about whether we might be heading toward a recession session. Are there's a lot of headlines this morning out about <hes> president trump trying to downplay <hes> talk of a possible recession <hes> and <hes> and and yet at the same time there are signs of a <hes> of a global economic slowdown and could this could this rebounder curb effect. The united states obviously the economy. The world is awfully interconnected. These days as we know and <hes> the trump administration and is is <hes> trying to gung ho and riot about the economy i mean this is not unique to them. I've seen presidents do this before where they <hes> them. In the economy economy on the upswing they <hes> they tend to take all the credit for that and when the <hes> when the economy starts to slide a little bit they. I want to say oh no. There's no nothing to see here no problem. Let's go to <hes> sean in williamstown good morning shawn morning yeah so we're actually we dealing with some of the similar issues that been described with the a._t._v. ordinances and <hes> it really just kind of come to my attention that all of the towns are dealing with a very similar approach to this and one of the big things that's been lacking in this discussion is essentially the goal of these t._v. Clubs which is not have been clearly defined or stated <hes> the the reality is and what i've spoken to the club members is that they want to get off the road and into the woods in which is i think agreeable to most residents <hes> but the reality is there's nothing in place that really has some sort of accountability regarding how they're going to do that and i think that's gonna be one of the more successful approaches to these ordinances that the residents on both sides of the table table need to have some sort of documentation that they can fall back on were they think that the club is advancing their effort to get off roads and that you know that at the same time they're taking consideration the <hes> the viewpoints and opinions of the residents were there yeah i i i mean that is my sense. Even in a debate i described from several years ago where they wanted us a small section action of state highway to link to trail networks these networks these trail networks were were they did go off into the woods and that's the sort of the ideal terrain i think right right in the minds of most atv users so <hes> but at the same time there are certainly <hes> there are certainly <hes> folks who want to be able to to ya yea get there. You know they want to be able to get to that old farm-gate or whatever that introduces you to field and then there's some woods beyond that or something what about let the private landowners. I mean our private landowners. Do they have an ability to regulate the use of a._t._v.'s on their own property. And where did they come well yeah. I think that's a good point. I think that that part of the discussion is similar to <hes> you know bast type model where the snowmobilers have agreements with landowners and i think that's really where there's going to be a level of community building that we're gonna see <hes> with these ordinances. If if if the clubs are really taking an effort did you reach out to land owners and make agreements and you know i'm like <hes> the public roads where you're leaving regulation or in violations up to you know policing the it's all different when you have landowners involved because these are individual agreements. I and i think there's a lot more respect involved there because it's not a public <hes> rose so the accountability measure again. I i think that's where privacy the residents are going to be assured a lot more because they know oh well you know going through this disguise field or woods or whatever they they if if they're tearing up the trails that this person has the right to you know squash that agreement they they have if if they're not holding up their end of the varga i think a lot of this is really has to be defined and it has to account for the actions of the clubs so that they are. They are reaching a goal of getting off. The road to end is clear to where they're going. Let me ask you your thoughts on on this question that i raised the columbine was here a few minutes ago by the way colin did have to. We were talking about impossibility them staying into this half hour he did after get back to my pewter where viti digger dot org as there <hes> as their regular morning meeting at ten o'clock and <hes> he had something to do before that so i i i wanna thank you very much. Normally i would do that while he's still here ear and on on the air but <hes> i really enjoy having calling in on these <hes> these monday mornings we usually get together but i want to this question. I raised with him. I don't i want to get your thoughts on it as well and that <hes> <hes> goes to you think about climate change so much discussion about that in about you know basically should we be should we be encouraging. <hes> this kind of activity basically internal combustion for fun <hes> or should we say to folks folks. Hey go go out and go for walker. Play around at frisbee golf or something yeah. I you know that's a that's a tricky conversation. I you know i'm i'm a huge advocate for or <hes> you know people power <hes> the eagles whether it's a bicycle or going hiking or whatever <hes> but the reality is i think those types of decisions really you have to be made at the policy level i don't. I don't think we can hold a i mean the the atv club accountable or whomever for the policies. <hes> are are not currently place so while yes. It's a it's a definitely a talking point and you know i definitely in favor favor of more than environmental friendly option <hes> you can't really how how do you regulate or make policies that advocate one way or the other one. You know it's not that there's no there's no law in place <hes> regulating <hes> you know for against <hes> carbon footprints right now but it's i mean we should be as staff you leading the environmental <hes> conservativism when it comes to that discussion all right well. I thank you for the call. It's always good chatting with you and <hes> will we will <hes> <hes> stay on top of this atv issue issue. I don't think it's anything that's going away anytime soon. In vermont communities i mean it's clearly a sea plane out all over the state <hes> in rural towns and it is a it's an interesting topics so president donald trump appears to be annoyed with the fox news network that i just got a look of shock from my good buddy dana jewell here here at our engineer projection booth and <hes> <hes> yeah because there's been a sort of symbiotic relationship between the president trump and fox news network for <hes> pretty much the entire trump campaign in presidency to date and <hes> there seems to be some daylight growing between them a tickly following coming from fox news reporting this weekend about poll results and <hes> <hes> fox news talk about <hes> a new poll out indicating that trump would lose a general <music> election against any one of several leading democrats <hes>. Let's see year he <hes> they asked him about <hes>. The the poll results indicate actually that present vice former vice president joe biden would easily beat the president trump. <hes> senator bernie sanders would win in head to head matchup senator elizabeth warren senator kamala harris <hes> any of these leading democrats according to <hes> and the fox news polling the caning that the range they would range from twelve points margin for for biden which is a really big margin in the presidential contest. <hes> six points <hes> against <hes> harris harris harris and again is even six points is usually when he come election night <hes> the in the results ended up closer than that by a significant ignificant margin so <hes> this idea that the that the poll results <hes> and of course you know you got to put a big caveat in any discussion around polls holes right now we are still <hes> something like fifteen months out from the general election and <hes> the only poll accounts the one that happens on that november day so we we we obviously take these polls poll results for what they're worth but <hes> interesting that fox news is putting them out there and talking about them <hes> and <hes> and also just just now see the the president of the united states get getting quite annoyed with. I haven't seen them you call fox news fake news yet but <hes> but boy you know that could it'd be the next thing coming <hes> he said that <hes> the president said there was this according to a report in <hes> leaving the huffington post. The president said there was something going on unquote quote. The conservative news network president. Donald trump pushed back sunday against a fox news poll showing he'd lose to any of the top democratic candidates in the twenty twenty election quote. There's something going on at fox. I'll tell you right now and i'm not happy with it. The president told reporters at the <hes> an airport in new jersey where he was getting ready ready to fly back from his golf resort where he's been on vacation. The poll released friday indicated <hes> the trump would fall in general election as i mentioned the list here <hes> biden biden sanders warren harris would beat him <hes> trump's it says simply. I don't believe it the leader who has often treated fox news as goto outlet. Ah complained that his worst poll numbers of come from foxy singled out the channel the channels political analyst juan williams for negative coverage and predictably offered support for primetime hosts sean hannity and tucker carlson <hes> anybody with any thoughts going on about what's happening with our president and fox news <hes> you more than welcome to to weigh way in here <hes> is this another example biased liberal media bashing the an the this poor beleaguered president or what what's what's happening. Tell me calls up and let that's no two four four one seven seven seven is the local number here in waterberg toll free number is one eight seven seven to nine one eight two who five five and <hes> that's a that is an interesting development there when when you see the daylight between donald trump and fox news you have to say um. That's an interesting development already. We have all sorts of i find the <hes> the <hes> <hes> so much of our signature or national news going on is just fascinating right now in terms of where is this so where's the country headed. Where's the trump presidency headed and <hes> <hes> much much happening out there. I want to mention also that <hes> after the top of the hour here we we'd go to one of our top media news correspondents for more insight on what's happening nationally and <hes> outside of its borders and that's always that's always always a good way to get connected up there so stay with us after the break that's upcoming. We're going to c._b._s. News at the top of the hour here on the dave graham show and w._d. F._m. and a._m. Couple afterwards sponsors and then <hes> talk media news is a slot. We always go to right after the top of the hour news year and we'll be back with some of that in additional few minutes folks. I wish i had a dollar for every compliment. I get about our selection upstairs at the warren store. The season's collection boasts country casual clothing for men and women dresses for summer weddings events they be clothing from sue chano and doodle pants fairtrade jewelry from around the world. I'm excited about a new line of pottery from londonderry vermont also illuminated paper stars for outdoor fun. It's a great day trip orrin village comfort lunch on the deck upstairs for some unique retail therapy fund funky unfriendly and almost world-famous newsradio w._d. T._v. f._m. and a._m. Now back to the day bram show and we are back into the second hour of our program this morning and bob ney talk me news experts will be joining us shortly. <hes> told he is not on the line yet but we'll be checking in with baba in a moment or two and <hes> he has <hes> he always it has a very interesting insights of course is a former republican congressman from ohio who <hes> got himself into some trouble. I think in connection with the jack abramov the scandal of anybody remembers back to those days in the early two thousands and i actually <hes> bob ney did a little bit of time in the in the federal prison system and <hes> emerged and became a commentator on talk media news and i think he does actually a really interesting in informative job. He's very very middle of the road little headed and has has he has a good approach to his <hes> his overall presentation. I think <hes> going to be talking some about what's been going on in in hong kong in recent days. <hes> <hes> these huge demonstrations going on in that asian city of course <hes> which was taken over by the chinese mainland chinese government <hes> more than a decade ago now or so it had been an independent entity for quite a while l. and <hes> china took control in. I don't remember the year exactly but it was her. First decade of this <hes> this new century and <hes> right now folks in in hongkong quite exercised about trying to get some democracy going in that in that <hes> asian cities as i mentioned <hes> by billy bob is with us good morning bob good morning how are you. I'm doing all right how you doing. I cannot complain yet. It's only it's it's only monday at ten o'clock so hong kong is back back in the <hes> top headlines slot here this morning and <hes> boy houses. I will do give us an update. What's going on over there. You know i thought about something on this story. Dave <hes> on kyw at one point seven seven million people protest yesterday peacefully by the way in fact the worst thing chinese could come up with was they had these horrible slogans against the police and it was traumatizing the families china actually set that which is just bizarre <hes> because they couldn't say anything else you know but what amazes me one point seven million people the population is seven point three million so if you adapt that to the united states population per capita i think we would have to turn not like sixty million people in one day for a protest in america that would be a lot of people that would be the way that could happen if the united states government banned xbox and cell phones and then they broke but you know <hes> this is interesting because this thing has not diminished and now they're actually asking for more demands hands so china's got its army and its amassed and that's tanks but you know it's not the old tenement square days and there's social media now. I think china's probably got to contemplate what they're going to do so just stay tuned. We'll see it discontinues yeah i. I think this is a this is a fascinating thing and and you know i think americans have a natural urge toward being sympathetic ear to the folks who are i'm trying to push for more democratic reforms in hong kong and these are folks <hes> petitioning the government for a redress of grievances which has been at least theoretically and mostly in fact in fact allowed in this country for its entire history and and so <hes> when americans see this kind of thing going on around around the world in places that are a lot more repressive. I you can't help but kind of root for the root for the underdog right now but <hes> <hes> let's see here iranian tanker u._s. tried to seize moves on toward unknown destination so <hes> i together the <hes> the tanker is no longer in any kind of custody are being delayed or detained or whatever <hes> but we don't know where it's going is that is that the thing we don't seem to be knowing where it's going. Iranian didn't wouldn't have said it wasn't going to syria but <hes> we'll see where it goes. I guess the question is do we as a country the united states pursuit and try to take us take it over though i think that's the logical thing. I don't think that's a logical thing for us to do but you never know. Logic sometimes doesn't count anymore <hes> but the british just the background on this of course the iranians took a british ship with soldiers. They've been holding it and the british took this tanker and there was a question on the guardian newspaper about the fact maybe john bolton fed information to london funding to get them to seize this ship to manipulate them and <hes> so anyway either way. They got the ship. It was british territory gibraltar then america our the country last week said okay we want that ship and they out they vowed like emotion in a court and now all of a sudden that producer like <hes> let that shit go once we got into it so we weren't happy with britain but you know britain's got control over it. It's shipping their turf and even though we wanted to ship it's there is to say no we don't we don't want to keep it and of course the <hes> the underlying game here whatever is to try to prevent iranian oil from getting to market. Is that the idea yes. That's our idea. The british don't have the sanctions so they really don't care like we do. The british is motivated. Letting it go was for sure not to let america have the ship because britain wants their ownership released. There's no way they're gonna let us take that chip yeah <hes> so basically different completely different motivations right now for for these two to historic allies britain in the united states so yeah that is <hes> the vessels hauling a hundred and thirty million dollars worth breath of light crude oil and been detained for a month in the british overseas territory. This is your browser of course right at the mouth of the mediterranean sea. <hes> hello for allegedly attempting attempting to breach european union sanctions on syria gibraltar rejected eleventh hour attempt by the united states to really he sees the oil tanker on sunday arguing that e. u. Regulations were less strict than u._s. Sanctions on iran so again the c._d.'s these divergences here basically between the western powers effectively and they might be big enough for ship to sail for all right <hes>. Let's see the president has mentioned this before the top of the hour but <hes> interesting getting your thoughts about this is downplaying concerns about the economy. <hes> are these concerns for real. Should people be concerned. Well i think think for real. I don't think they're too the panic point that some people think they are that you know we're about to go completely under and all the signs because of the what's called the inverted bond market the we talked about that last week on your show that this is the end of the world. I think panic can make this worse factor. The market probably is going to go back up today because we're talking to china. I think there's a lot of factors here and and so. I don't think it's like okay. We're out of the woods but i really don't think it you know it's the sky's vice balling so much of the stuff. I tend to be exaggerated. You know <hes> i think i think people get so excited about <hes> bumps on the road and <hes> and yeah it gets to be the sky falling kind of thing and <hes> and then and then it sort of you know well. Nothing much happened as a result so life goes on and nothing much changes as a result so it's it's <hes> it's kind of an odd thing and in some of the for some of this i you know i actually blame the media. I think that there is a tendency to exaggerate and <hes> you know in part because you're trying to attract eyeballs you know you're trying to of course and <hes> so that that is <hes> something that people need to keep in mind <hes> and and <hes> let's see some some interesting poll results on <hes> on <hes> gun control and <hes> the <hes> some says overwhelming majority of americans favor congress expanding background checks for firearm sales passing red flag laws and instituting a voluntary theory buyback program according to a wall street journal and n._b._c. poll conducted between the tenth and fourteenth <hes>. Do you think this will have impact on congress's. It's gonna move anything well. I think it will look. There's some moving pieces here because you know the president by his nature is <hes> from from <hes> second amendment gun point of view from the n._r._a.'s point of view and the president's good on issues frankly during the primary. He wasn't the best one ted. Cruz would've been the bathroom right <hes> because you know culturally donald trump's been a on this issue. He's been pliable on <hes> on gun control. He's from new york yup culturally been pliable on this and and historically things he said <noise> so the other day. You said that we can never well the n._r._a. Didn't like that but yesterday yesterday. The president talk more about mental health but here's what i think it boils down to the present would be when i say pliable amenable amenable to signing something if congress congre sensitive he's not gonna jam something through but i think he would be you know very pliable on that and so it's up to the house and the senate and frankly they don't do it in september day. They're not doing it already well. He <hes> bob day i. I think i've about used time usually give us. I always appreciate your insights though and talk with you we'll do so soon wanted wanted to introduce. My next. Guest is in the studio here. <hes> dan richardson is is a prominent attorney in montpellier former president of the vermont bar association has been involved in a wide variety of legal issues and and statewide statewide <hes> thinking about the issues affecting our judiciary system including the role of side judges in vermont. We're gonna talk some about that because very interesting the recent case involving aside judge getting into a little bit of controversy up in the <hes> up in the northeast kingdom so <hes> welcome to the program dan. Thanks for coming back. It's not my pleasure. Thank you for having me in and <hes> so <hes> let us let us talk about this. <hes> side judge events <hes> up in the i guess he was. He's working in the in the courthouse saint john's. Marie is that right that's right. He was the side judge for caledonia county <hes> and what <hes> will give us a little background background here. What are the what wh- on this judge sure <hes> what happened with judge fancy was <hes> for a number of years and <hes> under vermont law actually early side judges essex caledonia rutland and bennington <hes> serve as the judges for small claims court and judge vance in that capacity city at sat and small claims court for a number of years and in that capacity he was seeing the post judgment process and this is where it gets a little a bit complicated because a lot of people don't realize that when you go to court <hes> there's the first stage of the preceding which is the merits and once once you get a judgment on the merits tang you you know you defendant. Oh plaintiff x. number of dollars or you know another remedy. That's just that in some ways. Just be the beginning because especially if it's a monetary judgment and the defendant doesn't pay the now judgment debtor. <hes> you have a post judgment. Eh process that you have to go through. It's important to keep in mind. That's in the vermont constitution and statutes that courts cannot imprison people for debt. <hes> we don't have debtor's prisons. We don't have <hes> any process where the court itself becomes the debt collector <hes> but there there is a post judgment process to bring people in to see if they have the ability to pay and <hes> judge vance oversaw that process and <hes> in a number of cases is he <hes> did not follow the process and and really abrogated <hes> individuals due process rights as well as <hes> you you know creating this situation where people were paying fees to the court that went to the creditor without the the process of protecting to see if this was in fact they had an ability to pay or <hes> that it was exempt income and judge roy vance nance was a <hes> side judge in caledonia county for twenty two years and and the longer than that i think actually no late eighties okay <hes> did probably even do he'd been doing this type of of work for at least twenty two years and so and he he's issuing issuing these arrest warrants aligning the county sheriff to go to people's houses and put the cuffs on if they are not paying their debts off timely <hes> so this is part of the larger thing which is what what happens in the post judgment processes and small claims court in particular is <hes> you obviously asleep. You have assets if you have a home if you have a big boat if you have a car something that they can attach if you have a job <hes> the that's where air creditors go first neon. They will seek to garnish your wages. They will seek to attach a particular large asset that they can then get a guaranteed payment on when that asset is either sold or foreclosed upon what happens is when people don't have those assets. There's a process called a financial disclosure closure hearing and that's the first step to basically determined. Does the person have an ability to pay <hes> and what we see a a lot of times is that when people come into these financial disclosure hearings they don't they you either have exempting come meaning that the social security unemployment unemployment <hes> any subsidized <hes> from the government is not you can't attach that to pay a consumer debt or they're so close close between their assets and their debts. You know their bills each month there. There's just no extra money. The court doesn't make people choose between <hes> feeding their family paying their rent <hes> maintaining their car that they need to get to work and paying off a consumer debt and that's the analysis. It's done if the person jason doesn't show up to that hearing you can then have what's known as a show cause hearing because at that point you're in contempt of court. You're not showing up to the court hearing <hes> <hes> and the court if you don't show up to the contempt hearing may issue <hes> contempt order that carries a civil arrest warrant and that's what was happening in here was that the process was he was not following those steps in each one of those comes with its own protection that has to have notice there has to be an opportunity for people to come forward forward because i think frankly what we find a lot of times is that when people aren't coming. It probably isn't because they're hiding their money. It's because they <hes> are. I don't have anything are afraid to come to court the <hes> v._p. Did a terrific story about this recently and they actually featured a couple. <hes> crystal and quinton knowles of lunenberg got themselves into this kind of situation <hes> or the system got them in this kind of situation in in one part of this. I think they they had a transportation problem. They couldn't get a ride to the courthouse to to go to this hearing and i i don't remember from my weekend reading of this story exactly what the whether they had a car that broke down or what they're what the earlier stage of that whole thing was they were. I remember there was a period when they're calling around to friends. I guess and trying to arrange a ride to the courthouse right and weren't able to do that and and this is this is <hes> this is poverty in vermont. You know you call around to friends. Try new range a ride to the courthouse where you're calling around to friends and saying hey can you lend me twenty bucks and hoping that you know by the end of half a day it'll add two hundred so you can go and pay some fee at the courthouse exactly <hes> and <hes> and and it really i think this paints a picture of people who are already well behind the eight ball and just get abused toward board pretty much that that definitely is an and i should say this is a national problem and how <hes> court systems in vermont i it system is better better than <hes> there have been exposes on for example the city of baltimore <hes> where you know they. They were just essentially default mills where they you know all these poor people were never even really given notice in essentially socked with judgements that may or may not have anything to do with them. The vermont system does require a certain amount of proof oof and you know what i think. The vance case highlights is that you know even a good system has <hes> some glaring faults and it's really important <hes> <hes> that you know these due process rights are not just there for show or to be pretty. They're essential in protecting these individuals and you know making sure that you don't have this kind of predatory <hes> action where people are essentially penalized for being for. Let's bring a caller oriented discussion by bob from hybrid online good morning bob them yeah <hes> judge roy band is and crooked at the many should be put in jail and make groups destitute everybody he injured <hes>. Have you had some personal experience so this this judge has yes yes and he did not fall any of the rule of law and he it was just a crooked railroad lerone situation where he i. I can't even talk about it now from that he he he he should be thrown in jail and had make restitution everybody what he did. He endure karuk not good. You know i. I don't know if he's going to end up in jail but he <hes> he is apparently getting some <hes> some some corrective action take it around and how would you put this dan and i. I shouldn't full disclosure. I was the attorney who prosecuted <hes> the case. When it was alive <hes> it did the investigation and you know this was a judicial conduct board <hes> investigation and what what we found was evidence of this failure failure to follow due process failure to follow the rules which in turn were violations of judicial code of conduct and that that led to judge judge vance's resignation his agreement that whole never seek judicial office again and the public reprimand there were three components to that and unfortunately you know or you know the judicial conduct board isn't there to make restitution or those type of actions obviously if anyone felt that they were <hes> aggrieved wronged they could take their own private action but you know this is it. This is how serious this is. I mean this is someone <hes> who was clearly hurt by these actions and and why this is serious and why this part of the problem here is these these counties where side judges who are not law trained <hes> you know do re <hes> run small claims court. There's nothing small about small claims court other other than the amount of of money. These issues are very complicated and if your training is not up to date or <hes> you know there's a lack of oversight one of the big things that i pointed out his that there was a huge lack of oversight <hes> and so you know this problem continued for years <hes> and as as a result <hes> you know a bad decision begat another bad decision which be at another one <hes> and there was no corrective action ever taken <hes> and you have of people's lives at stake <hes> bob. Thank you for the call. I wanna stay one more thing for sure. He had a private meeting with the opposing was in a turney before the case went up and he wouldn't allow me and speak for myself so i can assume him and posing attorney ernie was talking about how they were going to split the money. They were going to steal from me that that is is so wrong there. There isn't anything that should allow a judge to have a meeting with one attorney and not the other x partake communication and that's. I'm sorry and that happens. I was right there and i kept outside door while the cutter attorney and him discuss the case before it went up four hours loud in talk about the case with all and above. Did you ever talk to the judicial conduct board about this or did you go to there's there's a board that covers lawyer lawyers and <hes> <hes> maybe the private attorneys role in this might have been for <hes> for questioning to i definitely think so but you knowledge also in my life. Nobody wants to listen to me or health. Hand in anything so you know i just get right around and run aground really well well. I'm glad you felt you could call us and express your concerns. If i get a hold of me. I like to talk to them or anybody else but you know okay awesome. Thank you for the call. Bob appreciated recreate great for some bottom of the hour c._b._s. News here on the graham show and when we return we'll continue conversations with dan richardson. We'll be back yeah. I wish i had a dollar for every compliment. I get about our selection upstairs at the warren store. The season's collection boasts country casual clothing for men and women dresses for summer weddings and events baby clothing from sue chano doodle pants and fairtrade jewelry from around the world. I'm excited about a new line of pottery from londonderry vermont also illuminated paper superstars for outdoor fun. It's a great day trip to warren village comfort lunch on the deck upstairs for some unique retail therapy fund funky and friendly and almost world famous now back graham show w._d. F._m. and a._m. Thanks for staying with us news and we have with us in the studio this morning gann richardson. He is a prominent attorney in my earlier. He is a former president of the vermont bar. Association caisley gets called on to act as the <hes> the prosecutor i guess judicial misconduct cases and that was one too involved with judge roy vance up in the up in the caledonia yeah <hes> district and <hes> <hes> we were talking on the break a little bit about how some of the issues that came up in this case might be indicative of a deeper problem with overall system of side judges in vermont. I don't know the third rail of judiciary politics and <hes> may maybe it's too hot to touch or whatever but <hes> what can you tell me about your concerns here sure <hes> i think it's small claims court in particular taylor is one of those courts where there are very complicated and very legalistic issues that if you do not have the training and background and it can be difficult to recognize them because they aren't tagged for you necessarily so you know in in this particular case <hes> judge vance stated that you know he he thought he was doing the right thing and you know there was no evidence that he was acting maliciously but he was certainly not not acting in accord with the due process requirements <hes> and that's and that's frightening because you know those do have an impact on people's people's lives does do have <hes> you know we've we've already heard <hes> and they aren't aren't necessarily you know spotted by the the attorneys and particularly in small claims court where you have usually an attorney on one side representing the creditor and no attorney on the other side representing the debtor <hes>. It's very difficult to identify some of these issues. You know side. Judges are an interesting phenomena in vermont in that <hes> you know they were initially created by the state <hes> the population because the population feared the the law train judges. They feared the state. They wanted to local communities nice to be able to make decisions. They wanted to be able to have somebody who would know. The community makes a lot of these factfinding decisions and and by and large you know that is is the role side judges have played. That's their strength is that they often know the local players in this and they have a greater background in making some of these factfinding decisions so if you don't have a jury if you have side judges you know there's they're not exactly strangers but you know it's interesting you know a lot of states had the same system they've moved away from it and the the question has always been you know is this the most efficient use of resources in in vermont want and is very strongly defend their their role in their position as a balancing but they you know have consistently run on a foul of these issues and you know the judicial conduct board decisions indicate that these judges have have struggled with this this role because the role well if a judge is a difficult one. It's it's one that requires you to essentially remove yourself from a lot of society <hes> so that you do not gain biases. Is it requires you to be diligent on some of these issues that aren't nicely tagged for you <hes> and it requires you to manage these dockets in courtrooms that and <hes> you know it's a skill in of itself and so you know to have these people that are effectively elected every four years that may come into the job job not having any training or aptitude <hes> but you know we're simply elected can lead to all kinds of of issues as opposed to say the spirit judges it just that are you know usually while they're all trained with. They're they're vetted by the judicial nominating board <hes> they're vetted by the governor you know it's intense and very very selective process <hes> it's it's. It's a very different result. I think as as a result of these different processes and so you know when we talk about you know the difference between the two you know it's it's very stark and the and the question is what does the side judge <hes> what role all does here she play <hes> in the modern judiciary system <hes> and you know there's definitely been a lot of push back and forth and probably the last flare up of this was in the early two thousands <hes> dot helling who is the president of the bar association at that time came out with an essay against side judges <hes> seeking seeking to limit their role and the side judge association came out vehemently in fact there was an article in the times are hysteria accused helling of mccarthyism. Yeah i remember that dust up back then and i mean this does seem to be one of these recurring issues in vermont that pops up every ten or fifteen years or so when there's a particularly egregious individual case or or when when <hes> when somebody in the in the judiciary sort of in the appointed judiciary <hes> gets a season two brand new newspaper op ed or board that sort of thing i i wonder <hes> <hes> <hes> this just sort of review. These jobs are it's too in every county right so twenty eight of them in the state i gather and and and it's an elected position every four years <hes> what the <hes> presidential year or the or the other two rounded year no they. Let's see they take office on the odd numbered years so <hes> they're the election is i believe in eighteen was the last one okay so it'll be another another round twenty two. I got her correct yeah and and he said the only state that has this kind of institution yeah well. I mean new york. State has had a similar system but yeah it's it's one of these holdovers in western states in the mid west you you won't have these these positions positions and talk to me. A little bit about the workforce issues here <hes> if the side judges were to disappear these fourteen people <hes> i would the judiciary have to the law trained judiciary. Let's call it to set up the distinction here would that have to that group have to grow by fourteen or would that yeah well <hes> you know a lot of the well so the the side judges have a number of different roles in their county officials and they're charged with the administration administration of the various county courthouses now a lot of that's changed since the unification of the judiciary in two thousand ten before then they were actually in charge of hiring staff <hes> and running running the offices as well now. It's much more of a facilities issue. <hes> you know and they provide died. The stopgap measures on certain types of cases so you know side judges often do the small claims court in the county listed though often do uncontested divorces still do judicial bureau tip cases <hes> and then they sit <hes> alongside of the presiding judge <hes> on any civil civil case that does not have a jury <hes> or sorry any case does not have <hes> a jury. I think it's it's both civil <hes> as well as criminal and family <hes> so they will they act as fact finders now if they were that role was to be limited <hes>. I don't think there need to be <hes> stopgap measure because that's what a lot of states do is they just have the presiding judge do the findings of fact and law and in fact <hes> if side judges aren't available judges just do it themselves now in vermont <hes> so you know you wouldn't necessarily have to fill in that <hes> what's judges have proven very effective in in recent times is some of these smaller type of cases such as the uncontested divorces judicial bureau cases where they've essentially functioned as <hes> you know what we would have to do is probably higher more hearing officers to hear those cases small claims court is a patchwork and that's part of actually a larger problem is that you know small small claims court cases throughout the state of vermont. You can get all kinds of different judges in front of you. You can get a lawyer. Who's you know essentially <hes> do serving as an acting judge. I calm weekend warriors only 'cause i do it as well <hes> but <hes> you know you may get a superior court. Judge who's assigned to that. You may get hearing officer. Who's a professional employee of the judiciary or you may get aside judge and you know how each of those individuals approaches the case can be very very different and have very different results when a side judge is elected to this job i <hes> do they get any kind of training or anything when they show up for their first day of work well they they are supposed post to have training particularly when they sit in small claims court but it's it's a once a year one saw i mean it's a one off type of training. There's not the same type of of continuing legal education requirements and i know that both side judges association and the the <hes> the <hes> try the judiciary. You sure have have struggled to keep together. <hes> you know some type of training that would make this <hes> you know give them ongoing training in in these issues but they're just haven't necessarily been either the push or the resources and at the end of the day it's up to the individual judge themselves if they don't want to seek the training they don't <unk> have to but if they do <hes> you know it usually isn't something that's necessarily paid for by the state and the <hes> <hes> the side judges take uh-huh side of training. Let's just talk about day-to-day supervision for a moment. Is there anybody who might have been able to just do an occasional checkup or whatever whatever of the activities of this side judge roy vance and caledonia county and noticed these arrests going on and say hey roy. What are you doing well. I mean that's that's the problem is there should have been. I mean you know let first of all some of these were appealed to superior court and were reversed and apparently we're or not communicated back to him. <hes> the clerk staff was working with him on on these issues and was essentially doing what he he asked them to do. As well as the sheriff's office and you know the problem is of course that the sheriff in the clerks aren't necessarily in a position to tell the judge what to do or what not to do but you know there there should have been and i think you know that's one of the things that should really be taken away from this case is that there needs to changes in the system to how <hes> how it's managed and i think the judiciary to its credit has done that in some ways for example the arrest warrants that were the issue here have have now been removed from <hes> small claims court it has to be the presiding superior court judge and there are more clear guidance from that and so you know in some some ways the judiciary has has has started that process but i think more needs to be done the <hes> i mean i i just find it to be kinda bizarre and fascinating at some level to think that that these appeals would go to the superior court the superior court judge <hes> obviously would i would think become aware aware of what the issues were in in these cases <hes> gee. I got this case here in front of me. Now that came up from the from the side judge and the side judge it has ordered an arrest and clearly that's not allowed under vermont law <hes>. Why wouldn't the superior court of intervened. They released on a very you know personal uh-huh and they're working together house. Yes no except you know when a superior court is sitting in review of a lower court. It's not as if they can have direct communications communications with that judge or <hes> they. They can't go knock on his office door and you can. I tell you what were you thinking on this appeal would the classic expertise kind of communication can't do i mean that you know that's a systemic what that doesn't necessarily excuse the idea that you know if there are systemic mc issues and you know there some superior court judges take great pains to make sure that they provide oversight but <hes> you know some don't and and there's not that sort of consistent expectation that they do that that kind of oversight so as a result some of these things can creep up and you know there is no there was there's no consistency necessarily. It wasn't every case that judge vance had this. Was you know a case here case there in particular circumstances <hes> you know if you're a superior judge and you're rotating in for a year. You may not necessarily catch that yeah and see that oh this is a bigger problem. Let's <hes> let's go to a caller sam from william william williston is on the on the air good morning sam i was wondering at what point in time do you think the judicial will get out of dealing with alcoholics drug addicts would turn this over to medical and stop drop trying to live a gate from the bench <hes> social mores that can't exist with people that are dictated to it shocked and let the begun clinically salmon's good question. Let me let me put it to dan richardson dan. What do you think about that sure well. I mean there's there's already <hes> a drug court that really tries to you know especially if you're in in volved in the criminal end of of it <hes> you know the the vermont court which has been expanding and isn't there statewide yet but is is building. You know aims towards that kind kind of of collaborative work where <hes> the counselors in the you know the the health professionals are the ones that are leading the treatment and the court it plays a role in that as opposed to you know <hes> issuing sentences based on you know somebody's inability to to overcome addiction. <hes> it's there to provide support in that respect but the problem is is that you know these these are situations where <hes> if somebody has an addiction issue <hes> you know and they are committing a crime. There's a question of are they committing a crime because they have happened addiction or are they someone who have a criminal mentality who you know regardless of the addictive <hes> personality would be committing crimes anyway <hes> and you know the the first category is the classic candidate for drug court where you can lean back off of the <hes> you you know the sort of judicial process. Let the let the clinical health process take its role <hes> but the second category is is is one in which there is recidivism and there is not a drug court isn't necessarily what's going to be effective person you know is in is should be in the criminal the justice system because they will crack when you're seeing the resources of <hes> because i think joy this has been done out here on a thirty jay rinse and dry situation and sending them back out and it's not long term where <hes> if we're gonna do this clinically. We need to figure you're out something. I don't want your basis and i believe the only way we'd be able to do that is through taxation on some of these products <hes> <hes> i e alcohol industry probably have to pony up some money and of course we'd have to go back farther get <hes> ah shake their pockets out to take care of soldiers well. I know i know there's lawsuits going around for just that particular thing particularly with big pharma and and some of the opioid and oxycontin manufacturers so you know i know that's in process but you you know you're absolutely right in in that respect in that the judiciary has been trying to do. I think is to pivot from you know. If you think about criminal cases it's it's. It's very much a a sort of chopping cut kind of process. You know you come in for your arraignment. There's discovery you head towards a plea bargain or trial. <hes> drug court takes a lot more time and takes a lot more resources and and you know feeling a situation. We're you're dealing mental illness. Where do you go bring. These people weird you go if jobs had been mid well. That's that's exactly the bra you know. The problem is that there aren't a lot of emergency facilities and i i would agree with you there that you know that's a problem the statesman trying to deal with for a number of years din richardson richardson. I i guess the question comes down to you. When we talk about side judges of vermont and <hes> some of the problems that you run into when you have people who are doing very complicated complicated things without the <hes> without really a whole lot of training i mean do we do we d- the scrap the system altogether and move away from side judges in vermont egmont or is there some role they could continue to play. Well you know on on the last question <hes>. I think there is a very important role all that they can play. I mean here you have county elected officials who have taxation powers <hes> and if they broadened their mandate eight you know moved away from from playing a role as judges and became like a lot of other states have which are county commissioners that could act upon on you know some of these larger problems and in fairness to the two side judges some of the judicial complaints that they have <hes> ban subject to deal with them attempting to do a sort of a larger good and running afoul of the very limiting rules rules and guidelines for judges so you know if side just became county commissioners the i think they could do an exceptional amount of good <hes> in their counties and would in some ways throw off the limitations of of being judges now <hes> you know this is one of those things where as long as i just want to be side judges i think that system will stay <hes> because you know we've seen it sort of historically that that as long as they feel they have a role to play in the judiciary <hes> they will continue to do so and and you know because they have people that support them and there certainly are people that <hes> you know come into court and you know and and i shouldn't say the some people i have appeared before side judges in judicial bureau <hes> in small claims court and they have been very capable and they have been very competent to do so <hes> the question is i think really one of is this a good larger system. <hes> you know question and that you know i won't give an opinion on but certainly they could play other roles. It's not as if this is the only possible system that could ever exist <hes> there are other models elsewhere and you know when we think about social services in vermont <hes> <hes> you know a lot of towns are struggling with these kind of programs because you know a town like mom pillar middlebury rutland that that serves their surrounding towns that don't have the capacity to do it well if you had that on a countywide basis. You could really do some larger good. I mean just think about something like libraries. If you had a county based as library system you could have <hes> you know a lot of states. Have you could move the resources to where the need was <hes> and it wouldn't necessarily the sara lee be the the limits of the town or the city. That actually is an interesting idea. I mean i know in the case of my pillow right. I think you live and i it was well we have the city has the cal cal hubbard library and there's always this question every town meeting. What are they neighboring towns gonna do about i think in a chip in cetera and they don't necessarily want you because they have to come into montpellier to get the services. So maybe you know there. There is could be a role for something which supersedes towns with isn't isn't statewide had <hes> county government in vermont historically has shrunken shrunk and become really a shell of its former self. One of these last vestiges these aside judges. Maybe there is a <hes> as you put more of a county commissioner roll out there. I know i know that's the way it works. In massachusetts counties have the county commission and they actually do you have some purview over various various functions and so on so interesting thought <hes> hey. We are fast approaching. The top of the hour here on the day of graham show w._d. F._m. um and because it's the second hour that means we're fast approaching the end of today's program. I wanna thank my guest. Dan richardson montpellier attorney for president of raw bar association nation and for coming in this morning in talking with us about this side judge issue. It's a it's a fascinating one again. One of these recurring things remind dan. Thanks a lot for coming in my pleasure dave life and do it for today's today's show tune in tomorrow and a little after nine o'clock for another edition of the graham show here on w._b._z. f._m. and a._m. Stay the tune right now. For commonsense radio with bill sayer and of course our day new serves to follow that have a great day everybody <music>.

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The Invention of the Self

Poetry Off The Shelf

35:26 min | 1 year ago

The Invention of the Self

"This is poetry off the shelf. I am hitting the grades today. The invention of the self before everything changed. I talked to Peter Murphy an English professor at Williams about a very very old palm faithfully from me written in the fifteen thirty s by Thomas Wyatt. I was wearing that. No one would be interested in a conversation about an old poem right now but listening back. I often felt a jolt of recognition in the fifteen hundreds of course epidemics happen every few years there was a viral pneumonia. Going round something. The English called sweating sickness with symptoms very similar to also seeing. Now only you die. Within twelve to twenty four hours of developing Simpson's and there was a bubonic plague which Henry de eighth was so terrified off that whenever he had to travel somewhere he sent surveyors ahead to check on any of the towns on route and if they found sick people they were carried out of there has an into the fields and left to die and you. Dave is often described as the worst king England of a known. He inherited a fortune. The blue all on his fancy lifestyle and stupid wars. He married six times and had two of his wives executed. He was famously paranoid and would turn on his most trusted advisers on a whim locked them into tower and often ended up executing them. One of these trusted advisers was Thomas Wyatt the author of our poem why it worked as an ambassador for the court and had close ties to Amber Lynn. He too by the way ended up imprisoned at tower twice in fact but he survived and each time he went right back to working and writing poems. One of these poems Li flee from me has kept Peter Murphy busy for almost two decades in his book. The long public life of a short private poem. Peter Murphy follows this long long thread from its author Thomas Wyatt to his friend. Who copied the poem in her own manuscript making a few changes to the family that inherited the original and stored it in their home library for centuries to the various printers and scholars throughout the ages? Who fought over version was best all the way to the presence when the poem has become something of a staple of English literature textbooks? So why this poem because to contemporary ears they flee from me is not the easiest if I were to give you a rough summary. A man remembers a time. When he was popular especially with women but nowadays they flee from me it's not the most compelling story of tolls but the story is not the point. It's who's telling it at various points throughout the book. You sort of say that Wyatt kind of as a person as a character Makes his appearance in the palm and that know that that it was a new thing that maybe before that was more of this sort of anonymous unified court voice or something. You can feel it in. Wyatt's poems that they have that texture of introspection like declarations about the nature of his inner life or the nature of inner life. I I like thinking of it as a moment of invention. It's right here and this moment would let's say it's fifteen thirty five but we can't be sure but it someplace right right close to fifteen thirty five you know here. It is It's the invention of the lyric in English That's probably again in some fine grain. Detail I don't think that that's strictly accurate. But it feels that way. That's so interesting. I mean I think. Today at literature is almost synonymous with inner life. Right like we see it as the only way I think almost to get I mean movies. It's much harder to get to the inner life the characters right. I mean you have to do cheesy things. Like voice over. Work Flashback. balloon literature. That's sort of what it does best and so can you take me back to what that was before we started doing that. You know what we're writing then. Yeah I mean it's such an interesting subject and I think that there's a lot of mysteries associated with it. And I think that it's not a kind of continuous and smoothly developing story from you know people inventing language and had to the day of Thomas Wyatt and then to our own But in the period right before why it. When we're talking about shorter poems lear tomes I think it's it's mostly true to say that the accomplishment that people are interested in poetry was largely as a kind of design so that the poems about love for instance that why would know that are in English. You know their poems that would feel to us to be highly artificial. They have stanza forms. That mean that they repeat themselves a lot and you can feel that some of the satisfaction of making such an object is actually. Just do it like here. I made this complex stands a form and look all the words appeared. Alright spots And I I don't think of that as a low form of entertainment. I think that there's a lot of of expressive objects that have that quality that. Wow that's a neat thing Edgar something. Wow that's well done I mean but it's you know I think that that's exactly right and I think that there must be you know what amounts to a satisfaction in the kind of controlling or designing of of the process of thought that is in such an artificial poem. The clearly people liked. I think it feels quite foreign to us. Were much more used to a more nuanced and flowing An even inconsistent picture of inner life. And so I with why we have a few poems where what feels like the picture of inner life has this kind of dramatic and compelling texture and I it's just so noticeable especially if you're sitting reading a lot of poetry from the period it's just so noticeable kitchen. Could you read the poem and and I was thinking because you know i? I can't assume that everyone has Sort of a fluency in sixteenth century. English could you maybe take standby stanza and slick paraphrase may be as we go along sure absolutely? So here's the firsthand. They flee from me that sometime did me seek with naked foot stocking in my chamber. I've seen them gentle team and meet. That now are wild and do not remember that sometime. They put themselves in danger to take bread at my hand and now they range busily seeking with continual change so I think that some of the one of the things that people like and this poem is just that magnetic first line. They flee from me. That sometime did me seek now. It's old English Has a little bit of a Foreign Air. But we can understand that line And then the the evocative air of the poem the sort of summoning of stuff with naked foot stocking in my chamber. So who are they? Those first two lines That's the part that caught me and I think it's that that that part catches a lot of people and sometimes they put themselves in danger to take bread at my hand and now they range. Busily seeking was a continual change. That's the substance of the first answer is about change the second thanked before Cheon It Hath Been Otherwise Twenty Times better but once in special in thin array after a pleasant guys when her loose gown from her shoulders did fall and she me caught in her arms long and small and there with all sweetly did me kissing softly said Dear Heart. How like you this so you have this. I stands about these beings that now are gone. And then the thing that's gone now appears to be this really beautiful intimate moment and I think you know especially if you're reading poetry from this period this stanza is just you know what I wanna say. I might be wrong in some very detailed way. But in a general way what I want to say is. There's nothing else even remotely like this people love to retail this stanza. They loved to just talk about and think about the the sort of intimate energy that suddenly appears in the Stanza Which that kind of intimate energy is just so unusual in this period. You know we've gotten so used to it. Yeah exactly yeah. It's hard for me to to hear what you hear because yeah for me it is. It is the thing that we still do right. Like we recollect something. And then we will hint at some details to make a really visual for the one who's reading her arms long and small and that is so common to us that. What is the the newest thing about this? Then you know I think that It's the it's that it feels like an actual recall like this is a thing that happened and a lot of poetry in the in the period. I'm not sure people would have been very interested in doing that. That is an actual recall. Might you might even think about is the flaw. It reduces the sort of designed and performed live aspect of short poem about feelings. And you can imagine someone thinking you know these are actual feelings. That's the that's not what we're talking about you know we're we're we're talking about. As you said the Faberge egg I want to. I want something more beautiful and more abstract in effect. And even if you're reading Wyatt's poem they flee from me. This poem is different So here's the last ends. It was no dream. I lay broad waking but all is turned through my gentleness into a strange fashion of forsaking. I have leave to go of her goodness and she also use newfangled names but since that I so kindly served I would fain know what she had deserved. I'm not sure you would guess that the Palms GonNa turn in this bitter direct and I think that bitterness unfortunately is a really common quality in you know the what is loosely described as love poetry in this period. There are all these conventions about how men get to complain about women not paying attention to them so I think that readers in the period are people encountering this poem in the period would have this complaint about her behavior There's something they would have read a thousand times you know. The lover's complaint is often a title for poems. That type in this period. And yet you know in this stanza. Also if it's not it's not a very decorative complaint It seems unhappily genuine and the the bitterness is part of that right so he gets into this stanza. And there's just this low. That's the place where I think that people would have felt the texture of self to be just a little bit too much but since that I so kindly observed I would fain know what she had deserved especially that sort of dead rhythm in the the last line. I would fain know what she had deserved. Not Very musical That's I think one of the things that gives it. Its sort of unhappy feel of genuineness like he just wrote out those words because he was so angry he he didn't even have time to institute is I am BIC pentameter. That's true like it has the sort of Obstinate field to it. Almost right like he's sort of leaning on every word would say no what she had deserved. Okay that's I think that's exactly right. That's what I call the kind of dead rhythm of it and I think what's happening in that line is this it's just an insistence on a feeling that feels genuine enough to be a little uncomfortable. Like you know. Conversation at a cocktail party of someone says something all of a sudden. You're like well look at that. And they need to go get a glass of wine or you know you find a way to slide out and so the poem as it appears in the very closely related manuscript it's manuscript that's being maintained by Wyatt's friend. They change that line and disfigure if they changed that line they knew Thomas Wyatt. They had sympathy with his problems. They changed that line then. Something's happening in that line. It clearly made people uncomfortable. Yeah I mean I was a little uncomfortable with it. Now you know like however many centuries five you know five hundred years later. I thought Oh you know doing that. Typical Nice guy thing like well. I was being kind. She's wanting to you know exactly the bit ask. That shows up bitter. Yeah I think of that is That's a technical innovation I think on Wyatt's part He's making the palm respond to feeling in a way that people would not have been used to. Can you tell me a little bit when you look at that page today or even the entire book that this page is a part of what what sort of interesting. Scribbles and and drawings appear in the margins of the poems There's this math on the left hand side which is Subversion of Algebra. I had the great fun of getting to read Seventeenth Century Algebra. Textbooks to figure out the you know the notation and took a little bit of work to even figure out what's written there but again what what a pleasure to read a century work of mathematics and figure out that that squiggle actually means X. squared and so on. Yeah but the math is a sign that the person doing the math didn't care about the poem and in the rest of the manuscript. This is much more obvious thereon. Other pages straight lines drawn through each of the lines of the poem and then the pages just covered with other kinds of writing so the person structure basically simply struck through so then sometimes pages are covered in prose. Sometimes there's geometry problems so that there are triangles that are drawn over poems and the idea that a person's sitting with you know a book that we now consider a priceless treasure. Yeah in the reasons that it's a priceless treasure is that there's a poem written on the page. There's person sitting there with this book who actually can't see the poem right so it's exactly the opposite of us. We look at that page. And it's like oh was their math on the left hand side. I'm sorry I didn't see it. I was reading the poem And that seemed to me to be. It's just a really important part of the life of this poem that there are people and You know my thought is that. There's a resonance between and the contemporary world were a lot of people wouldn't be interested in that poem and I tried to tell that story. Sympathetically that is there's lots of reasons why you wouldn't be interested in that palm and it doesn't make you a bad human being and it doesn't mean that you're not sympathetic with other humans or that you don't have a nuanced inner life yourself or that you're not interested in the inner life of others that just means you're not interested in that poem And so you know it's like it's a healthy tonic. That you can drink while you think about the history of this poem because there's always this temptation to regard it as some kind of mystified magical and holy relic that and it really is not that it's a it's a poem written by a person in fifteen thirty right right. Yeah you know if you try to write about these people who scribbled in the margin sympathetically. Well you've succeeded because I really. Yes such warm feelings for them. You know at this John Harrington I mean they're all called John called John Harrington yes generated call this guy. Mp You know because he was a member of parliament. Yeah what what I love. So much about him is that he seems like the antithesis of a poet sort of insensibility He likes math. He likes While he works in government he sort of interested in science and it's very practical and so he uses it sort of to conduct his business and to also just write down notes. Sort of like a to do list or something you know and Yeah one of the things. What was it again? That that he wrote something like I helped my friend's son I'm constipated just like sort of A. You know whatever that that was also sort of like you say an inner life you know. There's many many people who wrote things into this book after Thomas Wyatt Road in it but John Harrington who's the person who wrote the math he wrote really a lot into this book was a judge he was a magistrate. And there's addresses to juries are sketched out in this book and what I ended up thinking about as I meditated on Harrington's lack of interest in the poems his diary and his daily is that in this really Broadway there's a generic resemblance between his diary and the poem. That is somehow the writing out of the things that happened to him. Some of them very intimate. You know not very appealing constipation is not you know. Generally a great subject for lyric poem. But that there's a resemblance between his urge to write out the stuff about himself. Just the these are things that happened to me There is a resemblance between that and the work of lyric poetry. Which is somehow the writing out of an account of inner life. makes us feel that it's more manageable or that it is more. Maybe it makes it more thoroughly a thing of the past if that's what we want or it makes it more understandable and so that relationship between writing and what amounts to self understanding or just the management of everyday life is not entirely different from Thomas. Wyatt's use of that book. It's just really different from Thomas. Wise Use of that book. Yeah I mean that's a gorgeous way of looking at it and it really Seems to be exemplified also in the way that the MP Or that the judge John Harrington His son used that book he was just sort of learn how to Rights right like he was a little kid and had a tutor and he had you know do his alphabet and stuff and and what is so lovely as how you describe this kid was maybe not you know the most interested in school and that he sort of would draw these monsters enlarging exactly. I. I find that part like you. I find that part. Really beautiful actually and You know in my general feeling. That poems are things that people right because they have reasons for writing them by Thomas. It can be in some ways about his job as an ambassador. Desperate hope to stay alive and tutoring England And that again. There's this kind of generic resemblance between that and little We'll Harrington there is finally Harrington who's not called John Harrington you know this little wheel Harrington making drawing this little monster in the manuscript you know. There's a kind of habit of mine where we think. Well you know. It's a kid and he's just drying a monster but again it's that act of sort of getting something out of your head and onto the paper and then you look at it and it's done something for you. Something that was inside. Your head is now out there on this piece then so again. It seems like it's a good companion further poems in that book. It's it's you know it's it's the same kind of newborn of the spirit a a now that the manuscript lives at the British library which bought it at the end of the nineteenth century You know now it's sort of lives it's museum of Fides existence right like it. It can no longer be Doodle let's say I mean. Of course it's great because now it's public and Vancouver. The right accreditations can go and consulted and stuff night books about it. That's cool but But it also yeah in in a way it's now dead and I think I'm really happy that that wasn't destroyed in the course of its long centuries and I'm really happy that will Harrington drew a monster instead of making paper airplanes with the with the page that they flee from me was written on and so on so I'm happy that it was preserved. I'm happy that I can see it. And my ability to see it is entirely dependent upon the kind of mummification. That happens to that book in the British Library But at the same time The it's it's fun and interesting to think of people using that manuscript as a legitimate human activity you know that they're interested in that book that adding things to it was their way participating in the kind of general life of this book. That had all these interesting things in it. So you know. There's the two sides to it gets saved for us so that I can call what the British library did to the sort of vaguely derogatory term. Mummification so you know I'm entirely. I really understand that irony but it does seem like it that it's important to register it you know. I went to the British library. I went there several times to look at this book. Which is neat experience? One time I went I had done all the things I was supposed to. I'd sent email beforehand presented my credentials and I had a little card and so long but on this day which is the last time I looked at it. They somehow the library. Just I just didn't seem legitimate enough to them and I speak to another person who's often indifferent room and this person I was saying what I was doing. And and this person actually said looking at me I guess Europe professor she said and I thought wow all right well you know in some ways. I'm happy that somehow I could be misidentified as something more interesting glamorous than an English professor but at the same time what is it about me that makes me seem like a person who shouldn't be allowed to look at this You Know Ancient Manuscript. They did eventually let me do it but they made me wait like three hours just to make sure God. Wow Yeah I mean that's also really interesting about your book is that you sort of You show what it took for someone to gain access to that book you know in like in the Eighteenth Century You write about Percy who was the self-made scholar This kind of careerist guy. Who's great at introducing himself at an seeming very important and sort of making that a self fulfilling prophecy and He's he's the person who actually finds I mean we're we're skipping over a whole lot of history here but you know we'll which is going to have to because of the time you know But he's the first one to sort of reunite the idea of the poem sort of the original manuscript of it right that he marks up the book with this. Little Code to basically indicate okay. This is a manuscript that it comes from. This is the page in the original manuscripts that it comes through. And so you right. At that point that Percy decided to write in the book writer Dan who knows like write a paper or something you know. Because he couldn't he didn't have the sense of institutions that would sort of provide continuous security that his paper with his findings would actually stay with the book. You know so. He thought okay. Let's just write in the book and what I what I was wondering about. What your senses about that you know. Now we've we sort of. The pendulum has swung in the completed action right. Like we were so reliant on our institutions and and even just like the way that we digitize stuff. It seems like we're so confident that these digital copies that they're going to be around you know or that we've always have the capacity to read them to feel like we do too much of that we're risking our heritage in a way. Well you know there'd be other people be smarter about that but my instinct is yes certainly and you know there's the I'm not the only person who has noticed things like you know the the wonderful interest that's available for instance in the letters of people who lived in the past so where that information going to be you know we'll that beyond hand it's all an email now actually it's taxed or no. I don't know what it's in. It's in a tweet that disappeared so One of the I think really. I don't know a beautiful inside available through the history of this manuscript this book. Sort of calmly. It's it's a stack of paper that survives for five hundred years and and it just does that survives the you know the unbelievable and bitter carnage of the Tudor world at survives. You know it's owner getting his head cut off That is Thomas. Wyatt's son got his head cut off in the rebellion against Queen. Mary and then it just wanders around at ends up in a Family Library. We might think of a family library as a place. That's you know I Dunno through unofficial dangerous but at that that turns out to be incredibly secure location for it even though people are using it for all kinds of other things And so it just makes its way in one way or another and so there's something about the survival of of a physical object in the story about the poem that I find really just kind of great that it's it because it was an object that means it could have gotten lost in it's because it was an object that it didn't get lost and so there's something really beautiful about that story that would just paper and yet the stack of papers. You can go see it today. If you have the right credentials they believe Sawyer. Have you looked professorial enough? Yeah you write somewhere That the study of literature for you has always been connected to the study of everything and I really love. I mean it's so true about your book and and you know it made me think about you. Know those kinds of books that are like the history of sand or you know or something like that right or the history of paper or whatever and then of course it's not just the history of sand. It's the history about human beings you know just sort of the excuse you know Why do you prefer to do it through poems? Well I think for one thing. I think that when I began this book which is in the year. Two Thousand Right. It's a really long time ago actually from a personal view. I think that there was actually a surge of the kind of books that you mention and I really liked those books. You know I was really interested in them and so I I. I think that that feels like a kind of accurate observation about in some ways the source of the shape of the idea that there's a role I'm back. The French literary critic has this neat moment at the beginning of a book called said where he talks about a certain Buddhist practice of conjuring a landscape out of the skin of a bean And it feels a little bit like that you take little bean and you conjure the whole world out of it but I think that doing such a project with a poem is some of the satisfaction of it is that the the palm is about human being and even this palms Britain so long ago the some of the interest of this palm is that it was written by Thomas Wyatt who was Cordier in the Court of Henry the eighth than and Berlin got her head chopped off and the story of amber. Lynn is a bizarre and interesting and terrifying one. And so it's just the that. Tell a kind of extended story about this aspect of English speaking culture using poem. It just allows you to talk about the the pains and pleasures of being a person at every moment at in essence and and so You know as I was working on it you know my feeling was like who wouldn't want to write a book like this. I mean it's just like it's just like the perfect thing because the for one thing. Anything could be absorbed into it. You know so so for for almost twenty years worth everything I thought was. I would think you can just go you know. Can this go in in the bus? Oh here's something about inc. Well maybe I should read the thing about INC and the lives of people are so interesting and the attempt to imagine the intimate texture of lives of people who lived long ago with both interesting and I think really good for us And and in the record to to think about the long history of people trying to assemble their inner life. Does that daily struggle? You know that we have you wake up and you think wow what a great day. I'm doing some great today by afternoon. It's like Gosh. What a terrible day and you know I really feel I've lost control on the threat of my life has just now frayed and then the next day you're feeling good again the to be able to talk about that texture over this long period. It just was so rewarding it was so rewarding and so interesting that when I finish this project I was sad I mean I know there is like Gosh restores more history. Maybe there is there a sentry. I forgot about that I could you know. Just go backwards and think about Peter. Murphy is the author of long public life of short private poem reading and Remembering Thomas Wyatt before that he wrote a book about the tension between poetry is art or livelihood. Focus on the romantic poets Abacus titled Poetry as an occupation and an art in Britain. Seventeen sixty eighteen thirty. He's a professor at the English Department of Williams College in Williamstown Massachusetts and got his education at John Hopkins and Yale. He's currently at work on a book about storytelling. But he warned me that it could be another twenty years you can find. They flee from me and more poems by Thomas Wyatt on the Poetry Foundation website. The music in this episode is by Todd sicker. Foos I'm Helen. Illegal routes and this was poetry off the shelf. I hope you're still going strong. Thank you for listening.

Thomas Wyatt John Harrington professor Peter Murphy British Library Amber Lynn pneumonia Simpson Dave Li Williams Poetry Foundation Edgar Cheon Massachusetts Todd sicker Williamstown Percy Britain
Charlie Day

You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes

2:00:09 hr | 9 months ago

Charlie Day

"You? Walk. Made it weird with the homes. Look. What's happening? Weirdos Charlie Day writer producer actor director, always sunny. Pacific Rim fist fight, God I, Love Charley Day I've loved all his work and I really loved talking with him. I'm excited for you guys to listen this episode and all episodes are brought to us by our friends at Charlotte's web, CBD Hemp Loyal Goto Charlotte's web, dot com slash weird, and get some calm gumy's come on. We could all use them. Calm those. It made a huge difference in my life. Go Use Promo Code, keep it crispy nineteen for ten percent off. As you guys know I don't do traditional ads on this podcast. I only promote and endorse products that I absolutely actually use and truly love. The newest Pete's pack is living libations. Living Libations is the finest and best and most effective skin care products. I have ever found in my life. It was a couple maybe four or five years ago. Maybe more than that. 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Get get this Charlie Day, condo ears, I really hope it makes you as happy as it made me and I. Hope you guys are healthy safe and staying saying, please be kind to one another and enjoy the wonderful man that is Charles Day a get into it. Charlie. Who or charity? Day? Or sweet. Food sweets, Charlie Day using earphones I. Having your phones is better to use. I just use them because I like I. Like the intimacy makes you feel A. Every of my longstanding fantasy. Being a DJ. Right Child earphones, but. Jimmy, just. Look sure White Nice and clean up. I'm so glad we're doing this. Thank you. Do you mind if we start recording and? please. Are we due? To. The video of this, go anywhere body. I could pick my nose. Yes. Yes. You're totally fine. what's going on? How are you? How are you today? Well not hang I'm using the earphones. Say by the way I I, always forget sometimes when I do podcasts. You WanNa step annual, warm room. You know you have a meeting or something and you're like, it was warm. This is a warm podcasts I. Think you're great. Thank you just removing the headphones. Made me laugh. Yeah. I wanted to say what isn't true of a lot of us? Are a funny guy. You're just like a naturally. We'd some of us are funny performers. You had that in your life link where people will laugh at you? No matter what. I remember when it was and it was usually the grownups, it wasn't the other kids. And if you got me in front of a parent that I didn't know or a new like a sub teacher or something, I was a big hit with the with the. With the faculty. The students didn't think like I had my friends at thought. I was funny. But like I really swing for the fences if there was like to this day. Something you know, I'm married now too. But like I used to love meeting girlfriend's parents and stuff like that was my my pocket now. Sweet spot. Yeah. Who was yours with with the with the Jilin's you're in Rhode Island is that At any any audience, any since I was going after as of this, just the other day where. I, think to look back on it. I was probably much more. Gregarious and much more like A. Willing or desperate to make people laugh the now, I don't know, I've lost a lot of it. We just talked about that yesterday where I was like I'm not a big pot smoker. But every once in a while, I'll smoke pot and it will take me back. To. The feeling we called it the fire hose feeling where you're like if someone's laughing. All Liquor Dog Durda, and it's not that I have a liquor doctorates. It's like I was just watching sunny and they were talking about eating attorney action one egg. On my mind like when you when you turn it into a career part of your job, and I'm assuming you have a family and all that stuff is to learn how to curb it a little bit. But I think when we were kids, it was so pure. It wasn't for business in the best end. The best laughter and we're guilty of so much of this on Sunday, but when you really not supposed to laugh. National's laugh or something has happened I mean like your teacher is far did and you know. Everyone heard him bar and you know that if you're laughing glass for those those sublime after that's it has. I still remember this is actually I. Don't have. I haven't told a lot of stories I was married when I was twenty two I. Don't. I. Don't tell stories about my first marriage and that's not by design. It's just how it happens to be. But here's what we were seeing a an apartment in Chicago. And her cousin whose name was Mike was like our big fancy in into the city, I don't know if you remember those types of was like. I live in Chicago, I can help you get to play, and so the status like we need to know the status of played, this was the cooler older guy. But looking back I wasn't like the funds. He was just like to us and he was sitting in our window. So he took a cool seat. Sat in the window and he put his leg up and he was sort of leaning on sort of waxing on about Chicago and like where to get the bus bloody Marys or whatever it was, and he let out the perfect like we're in the middle of the sort of diatribe this. Perfect. I, still remember it. Like a very long time ago I remember the. And he just. So quickly, he would. He tried to do with. You just went excuse me and then kept going. But? I was twenty two. There's no I. Mean. We waited from leave, but as soon as he left. We talked about that Fart. For decades. Lie Hope that farts will remain sacred. Funny at throughout the rest of the time I mean I. Hope that we don't get a place where like you know some people can't control their thoughts and we need to be more sensitive about heart shaming are changing. Shaming me, I had a friend who was like, I was going to his grandfather's house for the moon. He was like just. So you know my father, my grandfather can't stop fighting and don't make fun of him and like it was like before we had curb. But if I had, I would have been like, what is this curve? You telling a fifteen year? Old Kid dilemma departs I feel I think we'll be okay I. Hope we'll be okay because farts on this podcast, we always ask the guest, the hardest time they've laughed, and it's usually a fall or a fart and to to your point. Is usually in a situation where you're not supposed to laugh. which brings me my greatest appreciation of Sunning. Is there's somebody some saint some beautiful person, and I hope you don't mind cause. They used footage without permission, but they put together a master cut of the bloopers out. Great. So it's all the blue like all the bloopers are up independently, I. Think you know sanctioned, but somebody just put them all together and it's like three hours and Valerie and I have watched it through more than one. And it's it's Y. and I'd love for you to speak to this because this is not the just talk swell Charlie. It sort of is, but it's It shouldn't be I'm here her a good listen. I Guess Listen Charlie. I want you to speak to this specifically because this is not morning radio and you don't need to tell the story of the the famous. Now Story of how you pitch and made it all. It's I want you to talk specifically. To the idea that you are on a show that constantly was cracking you up is what I said to vow, and then I'm Gonna I'm GonNa stop chatting was I I really want my next show to be a show with a Blueberry Hill. I'm very proud of crashing, but it wasn't a blooper wrote real show and that's fine but sunny is like you're saying. Earth endings and you're and you're. Eating and shaming. The elements of Improv, I think, add to that where you have a script and you scripted it. To the point where hopefully you never have been promising the line into Larrea. But then he started up in someone thinks of something and then often times I'll be in the middle of the scene and then start to hear it from the outside. Imagine what the audience is hearing. A. Big Fan of of the other actors as I. Think our fans are so like. Displaying Things Macaroni Caitlin, Glenn, that just absolutely crack me up. So yeah, I just. It's gotten bad. Honestly, I have to. It's gotten better as I've been father because sometimes think okay I'm about to lose my shit in the stand and then I'm like you know what? Might. Not Home with my son, I'm out here. Doing this I should get through this and get home for him, and that's and that's helped me only a little bit because sometimes it's just too. We, there was one on crashing where we couldn't stop laughing and I. Think it was four in the morning. The problem with it though was I don't think anyone could have known what was funny about it. This scene wasn't even really like written to be funny. It's just the way someone was walking in wearing. It's towel. And if you watch it, it's the. Seir. Silverman episode. There was no way around it. I just looks like I've been weeping and every time I. Talk I'm just like well, the I'm just trying to say the line 'cause. That's all we have. It's all we have. It's funny that you mentioned trying to get out of there because, and you have to understand him saying this as to commiserate with you to relate to you sure in the bloopers. It's often you that that's laughing and dying, but you're the one that goes come on. Like. The worst although I think everyone's got a little bit bad. But I'm the absolute worst. And I. Mean like where's breaking or we're trying to break raking on just having. Too Much Fun and I think it's become almost like a nervous reaction like this and I really feel guilty if like Glenn is knocking it out of the park and I'm like, but I've got all these tricks. Rolex. Look at my shoes. We'll do cages the. But and I'm now trying to psychologically towards resolve outta laughing but. Gosh. I, just I enjoy it so much. Nikki Michele. Time? That's what I mean, and it sort of goes back to what we were saying at the beginning farts and the childhood firehose time. So I think, it's the right goal for me I'm like I, WanNa and Ensemble, and I want I want tone onset because again we were riffing. But like you sort of need to turn the I, don't even know how to do it, but you need to get the chemistry to appoint. It might have been because on crashing the the the The cast is always rotating always lots of different people. Certain certain actors. We would knew each other better than would crack more with other people. It would be like this is the only thing we're doing together the taking it very seriously, everybody would get through, it would be fine but I love that sort of. sleepover. Feel. And I what season around was that you guys were like. We feel safe because I feel like that had to be dangerous for you like at the beginning your scrappy and choppy, and you could probably be like we don't WanNa fuck up. But around season what we like I. Think we're okay and then it got harder. I don't know. I mean, I think we were always pretty bat like. It was sort of A. Commoner for like what's working? You know that? It's never really that laughing at. How brilliant the actor is or whatever it's? It's that I? Just. His character things is they get me. More happened on another movie or another project. It really is the intimacy of working with those guys in the show and the Sonny is the show that you can't even summarize the episode without laugh. You have to understand how jealous I am of the whole thing. It's so lean its friends. It seems pretty not easy to shoot, but you have some sets that are reliable meaning like it's. It's not gonNA be a shit ton of night shoots and stuff like this production porn fan. Now, it's really issue I. Feel I started feeling years ago. The opposite where I was like men were really limited in the lucky can give things. You know you have all these other shows that have as cinematic quality in their winning on his wars, and we're like, isn't because we look like a home movie. But that home quality is really what makes this show? Gives it its charm. You Know I. I. Are you aware I know I told you that you don't have to any, don't tell the story of how the show got made, but are you aware that me personally in the beginning of my career? There is no pitch to this day. I'm sure of someone starting out that doesn't have a huge backlog of work. Pitching a show that they believe in. There's no pitch that doesn't say always sunny. Like you guys really. Opened a door and left it open and I am not just buttering your bread I. Hope you feel good about that like I'm sure when I Whatever I was pitching. I I was saying you got A it's like saying a hail Mary. It's like you gotta always sunny this I. Know you don't know who I am and I believe that this can be really funny has had been. Aware of. Yeah. I, mean I. Think. So you know I think I'm. Certainly proud of being have pulling it off. You know like we were given a shot and we were able to find an audience and. And do it on a very lean way, and we did it from the ground up which was. Out. Of. Necessity. But. I'm also not aware of the impact that other performers you know it's. It's not something that. I feel like it's hit or miss when I meet me people like no, it's Specifically, industry people like if I meet like A. Like. A. College guy or girl get started probably, not much. Find. Meet someone like an actor whatever like. A director thing. It seems to be pretty hit and miss with who who knows it, and what the impact on them has been. It's hard to get write your own. History in terms of how other people perceive and. Show well, then maybe it's A little bit of a good feeling. Just know dozens of Comedians people. I know that are trying to make shows not only in the pitch. It made all of us believe that we could do it, and again sunny is a legit show. You guys are obviously phenomenal and were from the beginning. So it's not like these guys. These instagram models got a, it wasn't bad. It was like Oh, if it's funny and you find someone, I, think we can agree i. mean one of the things that can be tricky to find someone willing to take a chance. When I worked with Judd. No I I would be standing next to a driver or a or anybody, and then I'll be saying like I just need to get ten minutes with with Mr, Tau like like you want someone to take a shot like the ad is the the vibe and always the mythology of always sunny for those that don't know I think you're picking up from the context. It's relatively unknown people. The TV show that. Again didn't just give us a touchstone in the pitch it. It gave a lot of people. Hope it gave me hope going like Oh, you can do it. You just have to find those special. That makes sense I never thought about that in terms of. The fact that no one really knew who we were before the show. So. You know it's not like. That would probably be very encouraging thing if I young starting out actor. Huge grab a camera and can show like. Where you guys didn't have that like men were really throwing a Frisbee into the into the abyss here when you were bitching it. Thirty positive that we could do it. Useful. I'm. Like I guess is the word thing. I mean, we all started fell. Very cocky. In terms of. I mean I. Think. We, all worked I just come off of a TV show, Louis, Guzman I the year. Before I'd done fifteen network TAT's tests during pilot season or whatever. The. Okay and Glenn Harrington Works and Rob Works a lot. So we kind of felt like, all right we. We're GONNA work. was that we could pull it off I. Think we were just saying. Yeah. Show Shot I. See you only nobody like now that I live in La. I'm like Oh. Yeah. I see why you didn't think throwing a Frisbee and the best fifteen that means you're in fifteen pilots basic. Are you tested? I was casting your tested, but you knew there was some quality. People did not me? Entities this guy, this guy at plus a show will not equal anything. This is what I will never tire talking about and I. Think there are a lot of people listening that are like when you have an idea and you believe in that, we want to see it through and this is something that I think was trimmed out of the sunny mythology. So maybe you could take me through a little bit. I. Know You did some theater and then take me take me to La. Are. Actually like to dispel the idea. But I've carried for decades that you guys were literally just like I think we can do this and you must have had a gangbusters bitch. You were working and you you had a time in your life where you were grinding. Yes. So. So. I went to college than it was at the Williamstown. Theatre Festival alive. Then I got an agent through that and I was in a great group of actors. There was myself in Sterling Brown Jimmy Simpson Kathryn Hahn. Be, just. The talent was incredible. And sort of boot camp for acted and you really learn. Okay. How do I? How do I shine in audition? How do I? How do you find that? Now? I'm just thinking about someone listening and they're like, well, that's incredible. How do I get a boot camp somebody had? It was a guy in my college who was a you know a guy who's thirty in college. On there, and he knew that I wanted to be an actor and he said you should check out this summer Vita festival and it's it's a really sort of prestigious one. In the first year I went that I just emptied trash cans and build sets, mason a line in the play, and then I kept auditioning and they had a program that I kept getting back in this. Great. This is the other side I love that stuff. But this is what crashing was about I was like the part. That's the montage. Yeah. Charlie sweeping is sort of the most interesting thing because to me, it's like it's like pulling back the bow, we all love the Arrow sailing through. Yeah. But you're you had. Even. Though you were three, we're getting to that later. But confident guys the believed that you had talent and thought you had something to offer. There was also some humility i. know we sound like old men, but I love stories of like you weren't entitled. You're like I'll take out the fucking trash oh. Yeah. I mean? Like I. Lived in new. York in a basement apartment didn't answer phones an waited tables and did the whole thing and then. By fourth summer or my third summer at that festival, a got an agent, some dominated play and said, hey I'll sign you. and. Then it started making money doing commercials. I did a lot of. Commercials in, you know the occasional like a few lines on law and order. Now. The. New York Grind. I did that too. Did you go to house? Did House exist when you were there? Now, I think I had laughed right around one house. I'd just think you and I were living that same life where like I can't walk around New York to this day without pointing out to val where the casting offices are and. This is where I almost got. Sharman. I, Miss that excitement just. You know just felt like, Hey, I can. I can make it be an actor. You know I someone wants to be my agent. And all these plays now and What am I I think. Don't think qualities is I've always really felt. Good about what was happening? Done like two commercials I was like I'm a success. You know. I had that too I. It's a good way to be I. Know People that are happy, and then sometimes I have to tell them look at all the things you've done. No To be nostalgic. Walla tap is like a huge life hack, not just for life, not just for show business, but for life. But specifically, for show business, I, remember calling my brother from an an ad place. I, could take you there I. think it's on twin nineteenth street or something. Anyway. I just told my brother that I was taking a commercial acting class. And I was over the moon that I was in a commercial acting class. I, know that sounds like Ni- naive ninety. But I was like I was doing a standup and there were other things happening and he was also just so impressed. I still remember I'm embarrassed that I remembered. But he I do a good impression. My rather goes. You're slow in the process of becoming the man dude. In that. that. Blind sort of like yellow shirt optimism. I. I'm with you. I think you. aspired. Needed to make it in this business. Yeah. You, you you know you gotTa, you gotta be able to believe you. Can you know? Make. Something out of nothing. Yeah, and. And you gotta you gotTa. Kinda Grind 'cause, right? When. I'm with you taking the train. Sorry. I'm still slowing you down on this. But taking remember a Tuesday and you had an additional eleven and you had an addition, it's three and that was your day. Yeah. and. That was like a great day. Big Day out of. The net. And, I, worked at like you know if I had a Decision commercial thing. But if I had a scripted audition I worked shit. I was always completely off book while you know. because. I always figured. That's. I it's my chance to perform it. So you know if they see they like it. So. hoagie. Only Hales said on this podcast something I think you'll still find valuable although I haven't. I'm saying this because it's awesome. I have to think you probably your past edition Ingrid things but he said. I used to love auditioning because it was the time where it was mine. It was all like no one. Even tell you how to do And to this day I, still read for things. and. I'm like this is my time to do it. My way it'll change, it'll be rewritten. You'll be directed. You'll be edited. But in that audition, you can enjoy it and that's the same thing we're talking about. That's a motherfucker that was like I can't believe I get to act today like. That's something you can't fake Tony was does around in those New York days. At accused, he was buddies with my roommate Jimmy. Simpson together. and. So yes. So just was years of that and I didn't have to have a day job making enough money doing a commercial or something here. They're. To. Pay. Rent. Was Your I do remember my first commercial? Yeah. These a footlocker commercial. We were you in the. Jersey. First. Big. One is did cascade commercial where I was like a college graduated I was saying I was GONNA retire. added. Something to do with how the the cascade works but. That's. Enough money like that and. You I. Think I've made like. Ten Thousand Dollars which for a twenty. Three year old or twenty, four year old like this huge. Yeah. And then. And then. You know I was just doing the New York academic and taking it very seriously definitely trying to. Omega idolized Sam Rockwell. I knew all his like indie films and you're the same rockwell quality. I've never really thought of because I was like he reminded me of me in a way where I thought. Okay. There's a guy who's lasts is you know you're not Tom Cruise, right? You're. You're like, I'm not Brad Pitt Tom Cruise. So what am I? I'm John, Ritter. When I saw John Ritter was like I and this is before I grew up to look So much like I, know his his his wife now. Not Well. But like I've met her a few times and she she's like you look so much like I'm like. Of. Course like he was my Avatar, he was the guy that you saw on the screen. That you were like this. This is me and you do have that and I love Samdrup Jews. He is the best. The just watched What's galaxy quest for the first time? In the corner thing? This is how I fell in love San Rocco. So Sterling. K. Brown and I were We went to go see galaxy quest. and. You. Loved it. I didn't know San Rocco yet, and he so great it. And then we snuck into the Green Mile after memory when he's feeling. Better and watch the Green Mile and it was about you know ten fifteen minutes into Santa Performance I realized it was the same actor. And I. Went down to local video store. You know the H.. ACID. Bobby. My. Lawn. Dogs at the. Sundance movies, and you probably had to talk to the cleric Lake something else. That's. Absurd. Cuban being in an open unbuttoned flannel shirt and it's disinterest look on their face. But a love of film I, know again, I feel like an old man, but like the way that when I went to. A hardware store as a kid I felt like all of the hardware store employees were experts in hardware, and now I feel like we've sort of lost that art. If you've been to hardware store late like it's just a bunch of people that will google things for you now. With the video store, the video store that I used to go to in Chicago is called Darkstar video and that dude would recommend. Like you know he'd be like, have you seen my dinner with Andre or something that you never would've watched and you're like Oh, my God I'm getting school class from this guy. shorted my acting education, which is like. I mean, aside, Williamstown experienced few college classes. I would just go rent movies with. Actors I admired. You know your Hunter Watch. Anything on. Penn? Did ever. and. Just try to try to learn their moves and then At. Definitely would that was the goal for me was to be much more of that type of an actor although I liked. Acting enough that it'd be like, please put me in a Sitcom, whatever just WANNA work. But I couldn't get around. I. Couldn't get arrested in college. Yeah, I was playing like the junky younger brother in third. Watch, of one of the cops. Occurring role I had and. I just I. I can do the commercials I guess, but I just couldn't cook a Sitcom or even a comedy part in a movie. So, interesting and seeing as our conversation started. You have comedy voice. I. Think you know that because you lean into it. There's something just really funny about the way you put sentences, sentences together. You're funny when you get worked up all of this is a compliment by the way. was completely unaware of it. What I'm getting worked up in a scene, you're just getting work done. Just getting worked up in a scene. I. Just happened to sound like a ridiculous human being is so good though it's Jhangvi -able. I mean I think I. Think it's something to be very a proud of unhappy, but that's just naturally how you sound. I'm grateful now that I uh Rear. But that that's so amazing. I'm with you on Sam Rockwell too because I watched there's A. I think it's called I forget what is called, but there's a documentary about galaxy quest that we watched after we watch galaxy quest and they talk specifically about how Sam Rockwell was about to break like he. He didn't really have a break I. I'm pretty sure until then and he had the green mile coming out. Yeah. Everybody was sort of concerned that here's the sort of they didn't know what was going to happen with quest ended up finding this cult following, but they're like Oh my God. There's this like very, it's the same thing with Alan. Alan Rickman, there's this very a serious actor. Is he going to do it like an? Is he going to give it life to put himself behind it and he commits I? Think that's that's the genius of him. In that movies. You're like this guy is not. There's not even a hint of I can't believe I'm in a no disrespected. Tim Allen, but he could have been like I. Don't want to be in the Tim Allen Comedy Right now, but he did he just takes the acting very seriously. I think that was just such a good. Lesson for me as a young actor to do that whether it was a comedy or drama didn't really matter. You gotta play everything like at the drought. Yeah. And you know. Hopefully, the lines are funny when it's a comedy, this timing things, of course with comedy but. And so you don't Su Jimmy Simpson, I lived make all these funny home videos at our apartment in this pre youtube. So these are just for us we. Did that too. Yeah, and. Edited in camera like you'd just be rewinding it and then try deposit on the cut point. Watch it. Yeah Yeah, yeah and the camera. There is a, there's a great movie called safe men that San Rockwell Steve Zahn Paul Giamati Zenit John Hamburg road at a comedy stage crackers. Seem. So funny in that movie in such a subtle way and a lot of there seems because they were saved crackers whispering in the scenes now. And hoping be will think of me a whisper but I'm. Like you know Jimmy and play with that. We could shoot things and we would act out the scenes in trice and really smaller. You know subtler kind of ways of going up comedy and just. It was just such a great way to learn how to do it, and then you're seeing yourself. And you're getting used to look. You know how you sound. But isn't that what we were talking about earlier to is that the situation cracking a safe is a quiet situation explaining, Chicago, in my apartment is a funnier place to Fart, right? Yeah. Yeah. Then add Chili Festival. Like you you were learning. Oh comedy doesn't have to be. And it can be cracking a safe I. Mean. This was Tarantino were similar age when we saw pulp fiction and it's two hitman talking about what they call a quarter pounder. You're like this is funny and it's funny for the same thing we've always done in comedy is because you're betraying type or you're you're you're having a conversation, you shouldn't be having while you crack a safe or your your cold blooded hitman and you're talking about, McDonalds, like there's something funny about situations, and then the actors can play it as real as they want as long as the material is good. And I liked both both styles comedy to because then I love Chris Farley and yeah. I mean, when you saw eastern Tura at high school did not blow your mind wide open of course, and so I remember seeing the preview for Ace Ventura, and now I was already like I, it was like seeing my life. Like? Oh, there's a grownup person because he seemed like such a grownup. Now, you watch these educated. You're like, that's what the what I WANNA do. That's what I was doing in those videos that we were editing in the camera. I'm with you. No disrespect to stuff because when we started talking I've told you that we watched the day man episode. Over and over and over, and if I brought valley and here she could sing I'm going to call it an Aria as you're being lower. Charlie I. Really Hope this can get in your heart because you should feel i. hope you feel good. We rewound. It's like But there's a part where your voice cracks go. Kind of cross that threshold that boys have in their vocal register. But you do it. I'm surprised. I knew it. But I I shouldn't be because we watch it so many times and it's pretty good. You rewound it. Over and over and over and. Not. Fifteen times and it's fucking. Homeland areas every time and it's what we're talking about you found. The most heightened you invited the girl you like to play play is a great place for labs, which is why that episode great is. There's tension I was just talking about why is the office you talked about Ricky, office, and the office in general is so funny is because there's a certain way you're supposed to behave in office, and there's a certain way you're supposed to behave in a theater show and you're betraying it and you're even betraying your own show and I got off into fan town, but it's just like so that's as to me. That's so fucking. We'll speak to that to that moment in in that. You know I think I. Look I owe a lot of that show to all those movies that I was just devouring as a young man. So that dropping down on the sun. That's that's John Brennan tweet lowdown. The Great. Scene where he's terrified. He's come up with this great idea that he's going to descend on this moon and but then he he he is terrified about it. The way he actually gets up quite Larry's Nah. You can buy characters make up in that. That will that's waiting for Guffman. Don't just that. That heavy eyeliner. That S yes. Totally made up certain stage by. So you're definitely. Influenced, the way you know all all the if you try to watch good movies I am. Friends. I. Know that love to watch really bad movies and I. Don't WanNa Watch. Bad Movie. Movies. Sometimes watch bad move, but I understand. Will will pay off and you're trying to make something that's going to resonate. Will Are you familiar? There's you look it up on Youtube Jim Carey's like I'm pretty. It's like it's the thrusting of the hips and and I'm not sure if it's like all righty then, but there's he has been open about that. He got those moves from something. It's another monty python type thing. Forgive me, I'm not I'm not living up to my comedy duties, but he's like if you watch, you're like, oh, he got that sort of like is your number still none one sorta thing from this guy and he's on this is not me pulling the sheet off? He's been open about it he did. Get something from somebody. Yes. Everybody in. It's the Picasso, great, Artists Steal. But when we say steel, we don't. It's so interesting. I always think of it as a blender. Put, enough influences in and blend net. Your Voice, it's so strange will kind of come out through that blending process like the your Eunice will be expressed. Through your influences there've been times when I'm sure you have to where I watched somebody. I'm like, Oh, I think I'm an influence on this guy, and you don't get mad you go like, yeah, I was doing Brian Regan for ten years and Seinfeld and all these Steve Martin and that, and that was in my blender and and then. Ask. Certain point you do it long enough something. There's a birth thing, and now you sound like Charlie deck even though you were doing these other things. Yeah. Never did stand. But I imagine specifically in stand that there's a lot of that right, which is that you have to try everyone style before you find your own Dude I. Wonder if I'll blow your mind I, realize this podcast, fat guy. Little. Code. Who does that sound like it's Bill Murray. Hey Sing like Bill Murray. That's not the put it down. That's to say everybody's doing it. So like your point, two young creatives listening to me, keep feeding yourself good shit. Oh. Yeah. Absolutely. Just devour everything. I'm Kinda. Mad At myself. slowed a little bit in i. need to I, need to re up my watching things. Being apparent that slows it down, but let me keep going the. Disease. So it's in this time in New York and making the movies, Jimmy. David Hornsby. Who's big writer contributor actor on Sunny. That I get out to test for a pilot. In La. And on the plane, need a young man name, Rob mcilhenny and. Hype. and. It's the kind of thing where you're both in the airport, like that guy looks like an actor. Actor. Like who else are they flying out to test. Right? Odd. And so. I I don't know who introduced to but got talking and started hanging out I. Think I actually, he had rented a car. So I hitched a ride within the dish everything. Was He testing for the same show we were testing for part. Get the fuck out. That is one of my favorite La Cliches 'cause like we were saying you have to learn to enjoy these things when you're walking into a building and I see another tall lanky as goofy motherfucker. I'm like I like it sometimes I get the feeling. They don't like it, but I'm like you're reading for Stu. Aren't you I? Think it's so funny. But there's a bunch of people that look the same yeah I now and so. Well, so we we went and we both read for the part, but they pulled the plug on the pilot like that day. Second time in a row would happen to me like Robert Remember being really upset about it and I was like, this is what happens. They fly out in, cancel the pilot. But, then we just became buddies. And start hanging out in? New. York, a little bit. Did you sit together on the plane I'm sorry to keep slowing you down, but like I'm like. The long flight, I don't think we sat together I. Think we had different. You really bonded on the ride and maybe at the audition and. We're like, what was it? Do you remember because this is such a classic I mean as a history-making meeting. was there a moment where you were like? This is my kind of motherfucker writer. Not Remember one, but I mean I, think I was. Always, a genuinely sorta affable guy and and. I think at that age too. I was into just meeting whoever you now I wear. I wanted to know more people make more friends. And I imagine round was found in the same way. So. Or who knows, maybe we just had a you're bringing me back. You're being too when we used to commercial audition and if there was another actor. I still get juice just meeting another comedian. Even if I don't know anything about them, I'm just like. And, I've been doing a twenty years. I'm still kind of five. It's like one of the reasons I loved running into you. At that party I was like, this is fine. I WANNA talk to. Some of it. But when we were young men when we were in our twenties, it was like Holy Shit another one. So I, completely understand. Yeah, Eso. It was unreal like a hey, you're you know. We're in the same boat in an ADENOID. probably exchanged home phone numbers. I, Don. Now gives maybe I gave him my Did you a thing where was like your phone number and you check the pay phone? It was like a etc service. So answering machine. Dunno must have been computer somewhere, but I would like. You know pony order to pay phone and dial this number, and it was like my personal answering machine, an answering service. Doesn't have that in swingers. I feel like that was that was of a time when it was like call my service, you'd give out your number for your circle. Yeah, origin. Banks. and. The whole line was unreliable of yours. That crappy answering machine might break or a busy signal. Your roommate like a racist or whatever you know yeah yeah yeah. So I, don't know that we bonded and then. Now, the next step is to me, but I moved out to La. Forearm like maybe. Six months or year before him. And then he came out and. End We were continued the friendship out here and started filming a few things together because he knew I was still doing stuff with Jimmy. Jimmy, moved out here and I moved in with him out here. And we just made a few funny videos was writing a lot. So we would do readings of his. Movies writings for serious movies and things. Ownership what fun. Yeah. And then we just kind of hanging out being young guys hanging out. and. I remember this specifically I I had a great gig as the voice of the independent film channel for years. So for many years, those are sweet gigs. Oh, buddy. It was very sweet. In fact, I almost turned it down because I had a callback for the movie eight mile. The EMINEM. and. It was such a big deal for me. and. The commercial agent said Yeah. But you gotta go take this recording GIG and I said. You know this is a Curtis Hanson, film? You know they they really like me now in. The late management was the casting director and she was like really on my side a lot and. And the guys like, no you. You might make like eighty this year. So okay. Kyle. Kinane is the voice of Comedy Central and I. I don't know this from Kyle, but I feel like first hand. But I'm always like if you can just be recurring. Voiceover in a thing I mean, just the the quantity of things you'll be attached to. Oh, it was awesome. So for three years. You know I don't know exactly how much it made with taxes or whatever, but it was just it was great and it's like A. Rob Office, he was waiting tables and come to my apartment. I'd have a pile of cash. Jackson? My. Isn't. Schwartzman. In funny people. Terrible. Man. I'm my privilege. I mean, look at this. Golden Boys for you know. As say a little bit of rasp industry loves the little RASP. That was the only voiceover. GIG? I. Hadn't many years I didn't do another one. But and. This time I've never get one randomly. The independent film channel wanted to sort of offbeat voice in. But Then I remember as recording one of those met rob for like coffee across the street. And we just hanging out had a conversation we were saying, you know we really should just try to make our own show. We try to make our own thing was, what was the spirit of that? Was it frustration that Moore wasn't happening or was it just kind of like wild eyed wide eyed sort of like we can do whatever we want. This is our time. It was it was that we can do whatever. I walk like I have a lot of that rob has that states. which is I have a lot of like, Hey, I, WanNa do something put together. Rob. Is it more than anyone I've ever met and? Just. Like that sort of like, go get him. I WANNA go make a big thing. At the time, just a conversation and then. Passed I wound up getting a job in the Luis Guzman shows a will gluck show. And the end we did like thirteen episodes in. And I remember thinking after that. Okay. I, really really would want to do something robin been off. I. Didn't know this working with Glenn. And they've been developing script for the pilot. and they came to me and they said look I'm probably made the correctly. Maybe forgetting details maybe started with just wrote a scene and I said Hey, let's do this funny scene about someone comes to someone's house. At just want sugar. Glenn comes to my house and then. I tell them that kids are, and then he's like, okay. How do I get out of the apartment and how do I also get the sugar? Ha. What a perfect little snapshot experiment of Like I think. That becomes sort of the tone of the show. It was. Yeah. It was the it was the DNA for what the show. and. You know shot bad in, it was really sunny and then. Sarah developed full length pilot and they. decided to shoot it together. And so we shot entire version of the pilot. Ourselves does with cameras. Like. Panasonic DX one, hundred I, remember with cameras because I wound up buying one my IFC money. I. Think it was like two thousand dollars. It was a great investment. And we. Who in the group knew about? And shooting, and cameras I mean, was it just you guys enthusiasts? I. Think they're. Fran, around Glenn at a friend who helped us with the very first one. I think and he knew a little bit about the camera and showed us. and then. We didn't know much against life the lighting. Look. Great. At the way. We knew enough intuitively to not screw the angles up. But we just cross covered everything, which is that you know. But. You knew to do that. I? Mean that that's not beginner stuff. I do want to give another shout out there. So many youtube channels I feel like this is right up your alley. You can go down a worm hall on Youtube for three hours and I swear it's a year of film school I. Just it is like now watching and I didn't direct crashing. But you know when you're the writer Creator, you're sort of involved. You were the same hats director, where begs right? You picking the props? You choosing the location, you're casting the show. You're giving actors, Direction. You right everything except where the camera goes. That's right and he. Moved the camera. If you don't like where the director, that's true, that's what they say. TV is the Writers Medium and film directors medium, but so I also got to observe all these directors. So I'm saying from that whatever authority that gives me that these youtube videos that I watch about crossovers analyze scenes like seen breakdowns. Look at how they cross the line here. I. Sort of learned a lot of that stuff after I made TV watching youtube videos. So when you when you talk about cross coverage being young men knowing while we want to like. It. Seems like a bad move especially in a comedy. Judge Judge, there's a lot of cross coverage to 'cause you WanNa get the riffs you want. The real reactions to bring people in who might not know we're talking about if I shoot a scene and I should all your parts and I'm off camera and then we turn around and shoot all my parts. It's not going to have the same music as if we were getting both at the same time. Right, that's right, which is what you did. So I think maybe we'd. Got, sort of feeling from the offense, the British office and maybe curb your enthusiasm edit was hand-held and we knew we knew he could do that. We knew we didn't need Dali's all sorts of things. You know we had a cheap boom to cameras. And like a guy who knew about like white balancing or something, but I don't think we ever properly didn't. Answer the first one was shot. Was Okay not great, and so we tossed it. the Fuck Outta. I. Love this story with I'm about I, I. Love You guys were like, let's do something and then you're like, let's just shoot it. I mean like I feel like that force. Is. Why you guys are so successful and so good, and I can't I'm sorry to slow it down I. Just WanNa save read you hated the first one and you threw it away and like whatever that is, that is the glue that holds together. The LEGO death star of your dream is the instinct ago. I think this sucks. and. Unfortunately I have that in spades and it's a curse, which is like nothing is ever good enough. Really, well, ever good enough I pretty much feel at the end of every sunny so that we blew it. Moosh it, and it takes me about a year to be like, this is actually GonNa Fun, and then I love it. Yeah. But in the moment that always striving for something I, can never achieve terrible. I'm reading this. It's called the good neighbor. It's the Mister Rogers biography and believe it or not. He was the same way he'd stopped production on this pretty. Pretty. Low budget show to like, consult and re writing, and so I was just like I love knowing that even something like sunny. Mister Rogers Mister Rogers feels Albright an easy and like we're just having fun with puppets and your show does I mean this is a common feel like funny people fucking around underneath that is we're throwing this pilot away and A certain. I see two energies, right. You have the Charlie Day. That's like I can't believe I'm an actor. I can't believe you're an actor. Let's be friends. This is amazing. I think it was good I. Think I'm great. I'm GonNa prep this addition because I want to be excellent, and then there's this part that I think you also need the Yang of that which is like I think this might suck because. If you have that, then you're going to just show everyone crap unless you just happen to be a genius guess not. I mean, and I don't remember if it was me or WHO's Rider Glenn? WHO's all collectively? Just we just knew it was off. We. We knew it wasn't so much crap that we were like, Hey, let's never tried to make a show again like there was enough there to be like. Okay. Almost. What's wrong? And then we did it again. the second time around we got in much better shape dot gus. We can actually show people this while. The quality of re shooting something, we did this. You know there's that doritos contest where you make a commercial for the Super Bowl, a lot of young filmmakers and stuff do that. We did that. One of the first year is me and Orrin McCarthy this sort of film group that we had, and we shot one and it was dorito Scotch was was the premise and it's every chip has the equivalent of a shot of Scotch and the guy gets drunk Mateus, and then we're like I think we should reshoot it. It's more Super Bowl Li to make it beer. This is. Is the same situation by by the way friends with cameras location that somebody lent us just just that that. That early energy that we habit you guys have, and we re shot it, and when we reshad it, we made it so much faster. We like every say everything faster because it's thirty seconds everything faster. So it was so much faster than we actually had time in the commercial. You know sometimes after the product screen, there's enough time for little tag a little NB. So it was ten times better for being reshot because we had the experience of watching it and going like. Why are we talking so slowly? Something when you're look like I I imagined. You know I imagine. Wes Anderson doesn't see get to the end moving be like. This like like there are certain people that they've got. Down there style so much and I don't feel that way about sunny. Now. I don't see Saudi Say Gosh. I. Wish we could read whole thing. When you're starting out and you're beginning and you're in that trial and error phase of of what is your voice and what a show is specifically show. Yeah. Just reduce something is. What. What got picked up. What was the difference? Did you rewrite or did you just chain do perform differently? I can't. Remember. It's so long ago I know forgive me this I. Just Watch an interview with David Foster Wallace where they're asking him about an infinite jest, and it's the most uncomfortable thing I've seen because he keeps going. It was. It was seven years ago and and he's sweating and like he can't remember. So I am not doing that yellow straight this when we shot that pilot was twenty, seven, forty, four. Yeah. I think one thing was not to discredit David Hornsby. But David Hornsby played round mcilhenny role. The first time we did it And was going to do it the second time as well. But. had take a trip to. The couldn't move without allergies should round. And it is Boy. It made more sense for WHO's writing for himself in a way yeah. Yeah. I love that. That's like that's like a falling in love story like there's so many things like that. I don't want to go into specifics for the same reason, because I, don't WanNa, hurt feelings. But there were there were many times. The many things that I've done were, what we wanted got shifted because of something like a trap or another job or somebody that we books we were really excited about couldn't do it, and then we're like we'll just give it to this prison, and then it's like it couldn't have been anybody else couldn't have been Al. Pacino, like this is perfect. And that sort of providence stories like desert are dripping with that and I. I. Love It. I'm not surprised but I love it. Yeah. No. Apart, they could mean, who knows you know that's A. Are Meant to be a certain way by David Hornsby you know he plays a character called Ricky cricket. Our show starts out as a uptight priest is in love with D. in that, he just slowly devolves or very season. I was just watching the the state of Virginia. I was just watching man, that's what I said he deterred. and. And he's written on every season of the show to, and he'll land world-class ready starring on our apple show that we have a committee quest. Okay. Dealing with aggressor involved in that, I was involved in the writing of the pilot and then haven't been involved since that. So. I. Think a pop in the editing room twice to be like I like it looks really good. That's great. That's that's all Megan's Dan Hornsby and routed. They're just knocking out of the park. That's great. I didn't know was Meghan. Meghan is a friend of mine She's wonderful. She's brilliant. Anyway. So after we shot that, we had sent it to our agents and. 'cause think like we were. We were all represented at three arts entertainment which a great management company We were all at WMA. Like just three guys in the middle of nowhere we had access to. To get in the right hands and they like the idea that they were gonNA. Set up meetings to pitch it. and. then. Just. Months went by accident waiting to have a meeting with like big producers. Think we've met with. We were supposed to meet with John Fabra, but it just kept getting put off, put off but. You Know I. Love Jon Favreau, but I'm also really glad I. Don't cut him a check every week. Isn't it interesting? One of those moments where you realize. May like you didn't know that you could do it on your own until you add to sort of thing. Oh, yeah. No, I did. Yeah. And then. While we were waiting. We shot up second episode. So. I, love the story. This is what I miss man. I miss this especially because we're all inside these stories of just the wild west of like we're going to make another one I fuck in. Love it because it's not, let's make a show to be rich or famous. It's like we it's something that was waking you up at night. You know what? I mean. It's something that you needed to do, and that's fucking I. can't get enough of that out there the cycle and the second one was really funny and I believe it was the second one that. Rob took around town for the pitch meetings. Get Out loud, and we decided that we wouldn't go to the pitch because we were so green and had been in the before was just like. He's just the nation in that way. And he I think he wanted to like to be the guy and so he took that episode. and. Pitched it I mean, we pitched it everywhere, but you know what? Muslims were going by, we weren't getting these meetings with producers. And I think. We threatened although. It's funny looking back as the agencies will with you guys, but we like threaten to fire the agents. Take the pilot like, CNA, I. have been robbed maybe the code. There was a coup and that's when the meetings got said like, okay. We'll set on his meetings up and then I think we. said. We're giving you a real budget to shoot a real pilot were. There are a lot of steps forward even. Came to the air. So then we shot another pilot of sort of a hybrid of the two episodes. and. That one I think we have like a real budget of like two hundred, thousand dollars was nothing much, but it was enough to. Make It, look. Okay. and. And then they picked it up for seven episodes. Wow. There's so much so much unpacking so much that I love about it again, just stand on its own, I could just be like what was Rhode Island like but. I I was the best I know I know where you're from I would've said about anything I lost my virginity in Rhode Island Providence. Still there after go get. Okay, that is a dumb as. Bad. As joke, and I love it and I'm feeling the shame, and that's what it is to be alive. Say. Do Nine jokes in my head, and I was like now A. Travel. My God of course, I now know the jokes. Yeah There's too many jokes. Zero refers blow job is the setup, and then there's a million watch the sopranos. If you want to hear the punchline gives their jokes. About a bang I just to relate because I wanNA talk about the energy behind this. It's so helpful to people that are creative in whatever field they are just being creative in life. I wrote the pilot for crashing, and then in that interim which you and I both know talking about bad jokes but I find it helpful to remember that show business slow business I know that stupid. But I'm not trying to be funny. It's really helpful to remember. You can be on such a fast track I was like you guys shot something talk about a fast-track. You have it. Here it is. You'd think you'd be like, okay. Can we start you probably as young men even been like we might be shooting this this summer? Like, should we look for director like I? Love getting ahead of myself? With crashing I was like we got Jed. And this is after HBO. No they didn't they. We hadn't pitched yet, but we were setting up pitches and he had the pilot and I just had a month, the just kind of waiting around for things to happen. And I wrote. I wrote five episodes per judd's requests. He was like just write another one, and then he was just write another one and just write another one. So we wrote five can come to find out years later. HBO picked up the show and then I found out that they were like we didn't even get it until we read the second. So something like if we just been like all right though setup, the pitches will wait a couple of months. It probably wouldn't have happened because. The whole like. You're with a different person being needed to be illustrated and they were like, okay, we got it and then I like telling this not that it's all about money, but they retroactively bought the scripts that we never shot them. But they were like amy, Schumer Scripts, all these guests I don't know if we could get, but they bought them. So it was like. The. Stuff that you're doing just because it's written on your heart to do ends up. Being bought, there's something that feels very satisfying about like to reward that sort of. Enthusiasm. Yeah. Well, it takes that enthusiasm, but you're right. It takes two things move. So slowly and you want to think that they move quick and crazy things happen in maybe for like just an acting situation. Yes, things can move quick. You can do audition. Next thing you know you're moving moves big hit. Your career is taking off the that has happened for people I'm sure. But even even that audition by the time they got into was was years and years and years. Set up and the that's right. Especially, if you're talking about making something selling something convincing anyone to make anything, it's very difficult to do. You. Think. By the way that apple show. that. Like Robin I. So we had a little time between seasons and rob had gone up to video game company and said Hey. This isn't really funny world. Would you be interested in writing a show? Man Said, yeah, I think I give run show. All right. And You know we wrote the we wrote them pilot fairly quickly But. In hitching it around town, we didn't get a lot of bites. Including and I mean. I. Don't mean to bite the hand that feeds me, but like you know affects passed on it. And you would think. That a workplace comedy. From the two guys that have brought you in arguably your longest running most successful show about nine. Maybe the most successful I don't know I don't know the economics and business the certainly the long run. Yes. You would think that a workplace comedy is safe bet. You know everyone has Different agendas in different tastes, and it's very, also very heartache. Convince someone what is in your head or even on the page y'all look like right, and so that's why I think. Not only is it takes a lot of time, but it's it's hard to convince people. What, something can beat which why we shot sunny originally because when you can actually see. There's a lot less explaining to what it's GonNa be. But of course, the risk then is any. You could show it to my mother and she would know if it works or not. You know like to a certain extent. Yeah. So like you're you're putting your tripling down and going like this is what it is. But if they really know what it is, it also makes it easier to say, no, well depends on the thing you're making. Right. So if you're making a workplace comedy remaking budget people in an apartment or something, then you probably can pull that off if you if you are making a inner space comedy then yeah, he probably WanNa. Shoot yourself or. Quest. We watched the pilot. I. Thought the pilot was great. By the way I have the same card to play where it's like. It's really hard to. Have a joke about people say like, have you seen mythic questioning? What do I work for the TV like I'm sorry. I get to it. But that some times how I feel. But I thought it was great and and I don't normally necessarily notice things like this I was like this is a high budget, Joe, the game. Like I play games and I was like this whole thing if the game looks stupid, yeah, everybody's out. Everybody is completely like. Is that a to interview you about mythic West. Maybe that's not were you WanNa talk about, but it's like. Where did the game come from? was that developed for the show? And like I said, I'm not totally on the incentive of how they pulled everything off. But So. We had a partner new this off, which is where rob had gone to huge games of. Yeah. So I'm pretty sure that they helped create the animation for the little pieces of the game that you see in the show. So we had an actual video game company. Know. Of course, but it's not I. Mean just a complement to the show again. We'll get back to your yours world. I'm watching it like it wasn't just like. You see the title screen, you see like game play, and I'm like really watching it with the lens having played assassin's creed them like. Are they just repurposing shit and it looks really really good. They end the end. The sat looks great and I was like this is a high budget show Yes. A legit. Naked stronger to. Go Out of ROB. Record one. At, that his sister Katie wrote Six episode edits like a flashback to the. With the Jake. Johnson. This is the one I'm friends with. Dana. WHO's at Apple? WHO's a friend of mine, and she was like you gotTa. Watch that episode. That was the one that you. They're very proud of that episode. One anyways. That's great. You know. Let's just talk about that for nine hours, Jacob. I want to know a little bit about what you've learned. From the beginning to now, when it comes to the day to day the running it, the writing it, there have to be huge mistakes and stuff his what I, what I'm always fascinated with to give you a little context of why I want to know this is you take people who are artists and Chris. Rock I've said there's a million, he's like giving a comedian. A show is like giving a waiter. Waiter a restaurant like, why would a waiter know how to run a restaurant yet? We're doing that. You take a Sam Rockwell enthusiast who loves acting loves the CRAP loves writing. You're good at all, and then you're like, okay, welcome to and I don't mean grind in a bad way. But welcome to a timetable. Welcome to Monday Monday morning. Welcome to deadlines. Welcome to notes. Welcome to edits. Welcome to you gotTA. My friend. Tommy. WHO's a CEO or CFO? I? Don't even know CEO see he. Knows what? He's a high up in the business world and I was like Dude, next show that I do I'm GonNa talk to you, and I wanna read some books on business management when it comes to like incentivizing writers. Giving them a sense of ownership over the show giving them a sense of place and belonging and structure. All these things that like we need, you had to learn how to do that. The sunny have like a traditional rumor you running the room. Yeah. So we have traditional room than rob and myself and. Megan Ganz David. Hornsby. Run it at this point and I mean. In terms of how to do it, it's different for right in. It's it's changed through the years and I think it starts. Okay. Be a decent human being like I. Don't know. I can't speak for other people. I think people have worked on our show for so long and stay with us because we created or at least try to create a good work environment. Don't be an asshole. You're just making a TV show star start with right. Then people don't dread going to work. So that's probably certainly if you're running a comedy I think that's helpful. I Megan. Obviously had lots of horror stories. About. During writing rooms in I know she is really enjoyed working on Sunday. But mostly I think. It's it's interesting where. I just written directed movie that just sort of finishing up. As a very different thing because. What's great about TV is you have. Others voices, you have that team of writers. You have I have Robin Glen Mcginn argue about what's the best way to do something? Now. You also have that on a movie. You know you have your editor, you have your caution designer, you have a producer but. It's intelligence really a great sort of almost team. Atmosphere? Like. Here, WE ARE PACA writers. We have this mission you know have to make. We don't do that many ten episodes. Right? We're going to break it up in the first five and then the second five. Annual spend the first. Few weeks, just talking about general story ideas you know. Some might say Waterpark, right? Okay. Yeah. Where is it going? Will break the rooms up. and. We'll. Talk about that and then? Why do you break up? You want it's almost like splitting up witnesses or suspects who crime he wants them to each develop their own story you want. For Time so for. Yeah. So we'll get to two different rooms working two different stories because we gotta. We gotta get him gone. earned. The earlier days of doing rob and I would be in one room of the glands, well, the whole time or actually we would all. All in the same room at the same time, then we started breaking the two rooms than we. And then. Now. We have. David. Run the room and or Meghan Meghan run the other room, and Robin I will be we ragnar script writing script from scratch. Are they long days? Are you are you alike, let's grind and stay for dinner Kinda, room, or you know. I love it. My whole thing 'cause I was on, I wrote on some shows. They were great shows would stay for dinner and they'd always be not often. But there would always be a nagging voice where I was like. This about SNL, it's like SNL. Could be nine to five. You don't have to write from eight PM. Like, you don't have to let me ask you this because sunshine. You you might have to because if it's if it's a network show and you've gone and like a so I written a multi-candidate did one season of it called the cool kids and now now. and. Wasn't able to be there the whole time pilot pilot, but like shot Around the pilot. But. Then what I would pop in when I was free to pop in. For a table, read at the network blow something up and you're shooting it on. Friday in front of a live audience than those guys did have to grind it out and of course of Korla. That's that's like a ticking clock, but I just thought it was it was when I was writing on a multi cam. Those were longer hours. Yeah. Tough. But was send. You know we're just trying to get it all written first so that we're not writing in our trailers while shooting, which inevitably happens with at least one scripts but. Yeah. So we get all about editor, a lot of what I would love you mentioned, wes. Anderson. The COEN brothers I so many of the people that I admire are the people that shoot like they. They story boarded out. They even know in no country. This is when the bullet hits the rear view mirror and excuse at this angle, and they know like, wow, that that sounds so cool to know exactly what you're going for. But when my heroes James, L. Brooks You know McKay. These guys seem to have an appreciation for like will do seventy, percent eighty percent. But then it's that twenty percent that year forced into that sort of makes the whole thing fertile. His at I sit unethically I like both so. You, know I am I shot the by moving much more like the way Conrad. In fact, they used their story board artist and throughout the entire movie before I even got that Oh Shit I. Know? Yet. Because Violence, again, I had here. He gave me the story boards asking now. I have the whole, the whole movie story out right here. My God. But and but that was essential for the fact. I was in every scene I I was in front of the camera lot and I wanted A. An I was doing it in such A. Comparatively. Achieved budget added budget, but comparatively cheap from what I am starting to pull off. I needed that plan now. Sunny. Are. Directors always come with a plan and it's great. But sometimes, you could just break. WE'RE GONNA move over here just rest. Very. Different. Look. In. Terms of the movies it doesn't really matter I mean. I love movies that are shot Loosey Goosey. I don't know conscripts as work that way where they're like. He's another one I. I watched an interview with Scorsese and I sent it to judd because I was like, this sounds like you which I think is funny I. Don't think people would necessarily be like Scorsese in Jed, but Scorsese Jeb. Where they're like. There's a certain. Gap In in the a free space to sort of figure it out as you're going PT. Anderson to I. I had a funny exchange with PD Anderson ones at Largo where I was. I knew about the master do. In Houston and you know the movie, the Master, of course. New about specifically the scene were walking jerks off on the beach. If you watch the movie, there's all this like Yeah. He was just nominated roll camera. And it's not quite that. But it was. He said an I. What makes it funny and it makes me the fool in this exchange Is that I I was like he said that was just walking being working like we just said, you're this guy. Like. Are you have you heard the theory that it's the ego and the superego Amy Adams is a superego. Phil, hopping is Ego and Joaquin is the head and he just didn't seem at all interested in that. He thought that was. So in the way of making a movie, like you can't think in those terms and I was like you know you have the the different Jerkov scenes. There's Joaquin who just jerks on the beach because he's he's like completely shameless, and then you have Phil Hoffman getting a hand job from Amy Adams in the bathroom. So there's these two very key one is like a shame. Jerk release into a sink, it's very jarring, and one is just what what Phil hopping admires. Sort of secretly about Joaquin, is that he's just an animal and just jerks off on the beach. So and so when he said that Joaquin was just improvising and they were just like we were just shooting whatever he did. and. It wasn't scripted that he jerked off I. Basically I was joking around, but I almost contested them. I was like that can't be because it was so perfect at one point. He went I've seen the movie like like he's like I, know what you mean. I. Mean Even now even if you have something really specifically tailored down to the T., you're still looking for little bursts of life. You know you're still looking for. I would say accidents but things things have come alive, right? Yeah. So I would imagine I've never imaginer. Even. Though you're being wordperfect and the shot is dialed in and deacons three, our lighting it or whatever. That they're still it'd be robotic, right. They're still looking for whatever pacing timing just gets that seeing that spark in. This just different ways to get it. You could be like, Hey, here are the here are the boundaries. And this is exactly what to do. Now, bring us to life, and then you gotta find that spontaneity within those boundaries. That's right for you. Give me like, Hey, here's a beautiful beach while game it. You're feeling Horny, go ahead and. We've got plenty of. The. Camera. Quick, because we're shooting fifty one meter and it's In my own defense, if you've seen that movie a thousand times which I have. It's like a silent movie. Obviously, it's a silent part of the movie. He is with the sand woman. He gets a look on his face, and then he goes off to the waves to to masturbate. It's so deliberate and it's so perfect. FEELS COEN brothers. That I can't believe it wasn't Coen brothers. So that's like it's like using chaos to look like a symphony instead of necessarily aiming for a specific infamy, they were doing it on the fly and I'm just blown away by that. It just seems like something that you would appreciate. What can you tell me about the movie? When when, when can people see this movie that you're working? Well, I. Don't know if people can see because I've got a little slow down by the pandemic. But I just finished a cut and actually I had Leslie Jones come on and finish the cut comanche, cut the master by the way speaking. No ship and the AD, some really great movies. The thin red line and Finding Century Women Punchdrunk love than inherent vice and she's She really had a great sort of the take on the film. And So it integrate now and I'm probably going to start taking it around town in the leading some of the streamers look at it because I think that's the world we're living in right now is going to go to the theater anytime soon. So right? Hopefully AL, get it. So the this month, and then if that's the case God willing. I said a little bit of the music to work on. So did you finance it like this wasn't something that you saw them in a studio. Said I got I got into bed. So. Okay. These guys. Are. Good. Reason partner guy named John Regard done horrible bosses in fistfight. He's been talking to me about the script for years and I'd always wanted to make it. But I I just haven't had the window and or wouldn't I couldn't find anyone sorta pony up for odd story and end. and. Let's go aggressively, try to find the financing. These guys, armory films, they did peanut butter, Falcon mudbound. And they got behind moving shot. A year ago. Okay, and Dan was cutting it. With my sunny editor Tim, Roach, and then I got a little slowdown by sunny. So I, had to deliver an episode of the Season Sunny. And then by the time, I, was getting back in the editing room. Manager head to do other job job, but I. Found Leslie and she's was genius Finally got into the right place, and now I'm just ready to take it out. What is the weird? You said a couple times a weird idea. Can you give us the General? It's I'd always wanted to make a movie like being there. So I'd sorta use that Model I. Don't know if you know Peter Sellers movie. I. Think that's dreads favorite movie by the way. I, really. Yeah. I mean, it's one of the best movies. So it's it's. Total. Buy This woman in East La and. She started telling the story of However father refers to everyone in this town of Los. Angeles, it's fools and. While it's happening, you meet my character and and he referred to me as the fool and you don't really and she didn't understand why. and. Anyway, I meet her in the get pulled into her world and. There's a incident where I I. AM working with her father and a producer thinks, Eh, just like this method actor who will come out of a trailer. Park. In Hollywood and death I, go through this sort of crazy rising fall but. but I don't speak speak iser. Silent silent character. which I think maybe part of the challenge sailing. But I'm really happy at I. Think it's it's released touching movie in And it's very funny in lots of places I. The cast. Is Amazing. You. Know I have. Were start. Ken. Jong. Common. Came back and sale John Malkovich eating. where? Adrian Brodie. Holy. Share it. Good for me. That's awesome. Fun for these guys because people as my character goes through world's people could kind of common shine and. Not have to be on set for an a shot in La. La. Yeah. That's awesome. What's it called? Just keep people can keep an eye out for whenever. It's called just fools go. Just fool's gold. Yeah. Working title was Tonka. Which means the full in. Spanish. But the. Area had changed the title, but I'm happy it's really A. Movie I was trying to make and. Challenge the hallway through I. Think next time. AGO FOR MORE OF LIKE A. Bigger budget but. By, the way I don't mean obliterated actually had a great budget, but it's a big story. There were like out locations and. Passions and Garrett goes I mean if you're going to recreate a Hollywood premiere or a major movie set, it's it's not cheap to shoot on a lot or yeah, you'd have. To really create the story the right way Serb Odyssey. It was challenging good for you man sometime off Mike I'd love to talk to you about how you balance that doing a show while making movie because I'd be fascinated by I. think that's a little too inside baseball. But next time I see I'M GONNA bend. Did the movie I stopped and I did the show and then it picked back. But still I mean just even you said window and you said it's so casually I was like that must be a big part of your reality is you have what you want, and then you need to find the time to do it while balancing your personal life and two things, it's very interesting to make. We can talk about that another time. I'd be remiss if we didn't at least touch on music because again I'm reading that Mister. Rogers thing. And they were talking about how important it was that he learned to play the piano and all that stuff. And I was like, of course, like I felt like a drippy idea. But I was like to a young person music sort of shows that the world is operating with a metronome whether or not. You know it, there's a timing to life, and then music teaches you to merge with it that you can then betray. You can play with it. You can manipulate it and you know where you could flow with it to create sound and I was like what? What a valuable thing to give children when you mentioned. By the way, my daughter's on almost two inch. You'll already sit at the piano and she knows well enough to play one key at a time, which is, makes me so excited aspects. And I take your little finger and i. have played a scale or something, and and she and I'll say, can you saying it just makes me? So thrilled she can do whatever she wants I'm just saying I loved I. I'd love her to grow up in a world where music instruments are toys. These are toys like we can. We can do this I. Think it's essential for children to be if they can introduced some kind of instrument, any kind of musical instrument. It's just a learning another language, right? I. Don't think you have to be able to read music. You know. Although I think it's great if you can. But. I just think just to be able to say, Hey, it's Katy goof around instrument. Then people get locked up right in this I, can't do that I get. Go pick up an instrument anthony. Is. Just another way to express yourself or justly meditate or hang out or bombs someone? Totally. So I think it's you know you. WanNa introduce your kid that, but the gives them what you just said to put it another way that I love the idea that it kind of gives confidence. A piano is Landau imposing and it's sort of embarrassing. What if I play? Wrong? What if it sounds bad. So it sort of teaches risk taking. I think in the same way that sports would I don't know. Know. If people are GonNa follow me there, but it's like shooting a basketball is a vulnerable thing in the same way that telling a joke is a vulnerable thing or hitting a key on a keyboard or doing a recital. But we WANNA learn to like take risks and that it's okay to fail and it's okay to be vulnerable in all this stuff. Visible thing, right? It's hard to get out the door and and put yourself out in the world. And you know I, think that's the problem. Is that people are? They feel so vulnerable that it comes out in ways that are unfriendly, but many the being you're having these conversations i. It's borderline risky these days. But like. You know and the. Same thing just. To get up there and singing venison. Someone is the most vulnerable thing you can do that. There's a reason that people respond to that so well. You know and it doesn't stop. Yeah. It's so. So we finally had a nanny, our nanny iris come over. because. We've been quarantining and everybody's taking super serious and we're like, I, think it's time I think you can come by just today, we'll try it. And to see my daughter who hasn't seen another person I, think as a father, you'll appreciate as she was just putting on a little bit of a show. She wouldn't let me put her in the stroller. She wanted to show Iris that she could pick. Danny Lyons and smell them just like the little things that she's able to do and I was like this is what show business is here are strangers. Here's the thing that I've done when I felt safe. Now I'm GonNa do it when I feel less safe to delight you I. I was like Whoa. This is really blowing my mind, but when you talked about timing and when I see your instagram fucking phenomenal, I know that sounds kind of hollow. But I really think they're special to blend really good music with comedy I, see the music in your acting I can feel someone who understands timing when to even the cadence of your voice when to be sharp. Not that you're thinking that way. But this is a funny time to sort of rest rest rest rest. Then the line. Oh Yeah. It's all music scene with making a piece of film. Or. Even a TV show like the editing when you're cutting it, you know. You obviously hope you have a great editor here she. Has. A great serve musicality to the editing, but you're also trying to match it to your musical tastes. So you're like in some fuels off, there's a timing. that. You know I think Robin Glenn Habit as well too I. Think Danny, Caitlyn I. Think it's helped. The show everyone has a little bit enough musicality the. Music I know. I. Think. That's forgive me for being leading. But I felt like we might agree on that. It is all music and even even sports is music. I was watching the Michael Jordan doggy series like all of us and was like there's music to this. This is it's all sort of like one. Thing, it's all creativity. It's all risk. It's all vulnerability. It's all conquering our fears and would you I even you could trace that down to our fear of life itself? Like you were saying, it's hard to leave the world, but music is taking all of that uncertainty and instead of freezing your dancing with it, you're you're participating with surfing his music. It's. It's the same sort of the rhythm of the waves and merging and using. When do I cut into when do I fall and all these different things. Everything is music, but I didn't I didn't I. Don't think I just wanted to mention that I. Don't think it's a mistake that you're so creative. You're so funny is such a great actor, the music. To be the. It's not a coincidence that those things are going. The same time was very nice. You say, I. Think Yemen musical upbringing was essential in that, and there is a point in my life where I wasn't sure if I wanted to pursue. Or disaster than. I enjoyed writing songs so much and. And I think I've gotten away from. Gun Away from. That outlet I think it was vulnerability I. Think it was A. Fear. Of. Failing. At Music Very, safe thing for me to write a funny song and Instagram and much less owner. Right. One. That's sort of sentimental, right? And I think it was the same but sort of pursuing music. I'm a son of two music teachers. So then it's like well. What failed music, you know. Whereas I think too I would just occasionally beat another guitar player because I started a guitar. I'm going to start a ban was a kid, but like. College Play More Guitar Piano. Not, a lot of a piano is leaning against a bonfire and. pull it out of the woods. Now, they were all stone baby grand. Teeth eight. One of the very likes dancing. But I I think. There was some fear to pursue music and still over. There is a piece me. Why wouldn't I ride it album just for people but. The block there I, do too. I did the simpsons. Voice on the simpsons for it doesn't matter and I had to sing in my real voice. Vow was with my wife Al and she. Always wants to get me to sing in my sincere voice, and I'm a guy i. think probably like you. They will do a lot of things for a laugh. But if you're just like get the guitar and Sing Amazing Grace in your most sincere like you're being good at singing voice, it's I. Think it's one of the few blocks I have, which is like I can't do it so. So, for that episode, I had to take amazing grace and I just sang it and she was like just so tickled, not laughing at me. But she was like I, heard you real voice, I heard your voice because I always want to go sad guy earlier. Same thing. Same thing. You want to put those walls up and keep yourself safe in its worst thing you can do for yourself. Is. Definitely, you can do when it comes to art you know. Trying to smash through that fear and just keep putting yourself out there. Yeah. Even, making this movie was very I was attached to it in a way that I was uncomfortable with. I need. Not. I need to separate the movie and my own sense of self were. Do I know I just told the story on another episode, but we just want release these for back to back where I pitched something, and my heart was just on the table that afterwards, I went into vow and I was like I have a vulnerability hangover. I feel so exposed. So fragile. That's what that's what I wanted to see because even your your your I'm sorry, you're saying, was it. Who was the the most confidence sunny voice you're saying? macanese. I'm sure even mcelhinney will do something like that, and there's a part of them. That's like, Oh, no, my throat is so exposed here. And someone could rip it out at and make me break my heart basically when you're when you're in the creative field, I feel like you're having all of these babies, all of these darlings, all of these love affair as and when other people get to like. Unfortunately or or just what we're doing. Leila is invested in what the nanny thinks of her flower picking and I'm invested in what the producers in the backers and the audience thing. There's a real. It's like what we were saying with you. You have the the happy go. Lucky Charlie, but you also have the hypercritical I have the like. Sell to quote Tommy Boy I'll sell a catch obstacle to a woman in white gloves. But what you don't see is after I do that pitch to the woman in white gloves even if she sells it if I sell it, I'll still be like am I am I F for? I, am I am I like nothing am I am am I an embarrassment? You're right. Yeah. Just a sprinkle. I got too bad. I'm glad I don't have that too bad I. got enough things. I don't need another one, but that's so funny. I wouldn't even say I have it as much as when you put yourself out. You just feel it. You feel it psychically. Oh. Sure. Something you care about. You, you give a baby bird in someone else's hands and you're like, please don't crush my bird. Well, the thing that's tough thing. About just our field sort of emotionally like a, you can be a professional golfer right, and if you shoot the low score for four days in a row, evil knowledge can say, Hey, I don't think you want. Like Maybe, this I don't think you're that great, but like, well, Y-. orborne. Scoreboard. Yeah. Scoreboard. You can make You know you can make. Whatever you can talk Sanderson people will be like the Master Saxon that you and I can both this. fucking. Immaculate. Yeah. I just saw the master on a list of most overrated or like not great. fucking. I would've. What are you? What are you? So you gotta just. It's almost impossible, but you have to remember gear Modell del Toro telling that once which. Doing Pacific. Rim. With him and he was saying he's like the thing is someone's GonNa. Let me someone's GonNa hate by moving has nothing I can do about it. Yeah. But it's hard to actually live that field. I think those are those guys that have a little bit of Stoicism I don't know. But. Like that idea that like you're doing it. I have this is on my posted on my computer at says commit to the work for its own sake. Because like I think there has to be something and then it's for joy I think joy is important. you know I, I, saw I'm sorry. What is it called me? It's not called fistfight. It's called. Despite all I'm sorry, it's called fistfight this. Saw It in the theater it created joy and I? Don't think that's stupid. I. Think it's like. I was talking to j Barrichello is like one of the reasons for art is to make life manageable to make it worth being alive. I. Know It's silly to say maybe, but like we want to create a world that we want to be in an art plays a really big part in that. Even if it is just creating silly joy, I think that I think that matters. I. Have to think some a genius like Eurodollars, their Del Toro has to be like I'm doing what I wanna see, and in his case, I feel like he's doing the dream he had when he was thirteen. Yeah. The nightmare but. Awesome name, but you ever have an awesome nightmare. Nightmare Yeah I've from nightmares before and I was like specifically with skyscraper-tall monsters I was like that was scary when I was in it. But when I think about it, that was the coolest dream I've ever had like, that was really really cool. I don't think I have any surrealist dreams, my dream girl her and. Trying to get the sugar even though somebody has cancer. Yeah. Well we've talked so much. Obviously, I think you can tell I really enjoyed this. Let's just do a little bit of a speed round. To closes out unless you have to go, which is totally within your lights. No I'm good. You're okay. But had the right to go but. I? Like. I'm supposed to your boss everybody like me would be like will I look like a jerk relief like you? We've been talking for two hours. Ville. Duty Love it ninety time Jenner talk okay good. Well, here comes the last part people always laugh because I tag it on at the end. But every episode we talked about the meaning of life we talk about God. Religion a framework for the universe. So I'm not asking you to nail it. I'm just wondering you Charlie, day today how do you feel about Is there to this chaos. I saw on your wikipedia pages said that you're agnostic I'm wondering how you were raised and how you sort of make sense of the miracle of life, the miracle consciousness where we're going what's happening. Raised Heavily Catholic. Catholic in new. England. And you know full believer as a kid I think as time went on and you sort of learn the history of the world against skeptical about. People but I look I've always show about religion like this. I don't know. What the ingredients? are in toothpaste. Okay. I know that there's Floride in there. But I don't actually know how toothpaste works I. Get my word. If someone hurdle me back in time I I, I can tell the peasants in the kings. Hey, we should all be brushing your teeth and they'd be great. How do we do not a clue? How to make things, right. So why me you? Me Plus you identifies as Charlie. Why, why is it on me to know the answer to all things? Yeah. In the meaning the. Let's, let's say free myself with that. I think I'd be much happier in being I. Think. I just I. I will never. No. No one will ever know. And I'd rather enjoy my life than try to figure it out some people get a lot of enjoyment trying to figure out the meaning of all things. But I don't know. I'm not even convinced. Anything is actually happening that there is a reality I. Don't I don't know. Yeah. No I I mean. I was just talking this morning with Iras about how at its core Buddhism Hinduism you strip them down far enough. They sort of have a forgive me Buddhists and Hindus if I'm not representing you correctly, but there's sort of an idea that there is nothing happening. That's what my daughter's name means. Leila means the dance of the universe meaning what you said. Don't take it too. seriously. We're just making TV show saying it's all Leila, is a way of saying this is just a dance. This is just a play of light. It's a passing show. So don't get to up your own, ass. What's funny about what you're saying is. I'm with you. We can't know. That is such an important and fundamental part of of mystery and of religion. What I think is interesting about toothpaste is what's different between the phenomenon of God or awareness. Right? itself is the toothpaste is what's making you operate like you are part of toothpaste sort of that sort of what makes it interesting to me. So while I can't figure out what's in toothpastes because? I, don't work at proctor and gamble or whatever. The thing that's looking for God is God. That's what I think is. So fucking trippy. That's what sort of gives every human being every piece of reality sort of a pass to explore with. Certainty with not certainty. With green light to look for yourself because what what is looking. So if you WANNA say reality is just a play which I'm with you and you want to say we can't. It's what is looking is what what you're looking for is what you're looking with. Saint Francis said. So you you are toothpastes. Which is what makes it fun for me and saying, I don't know what's looking out. My eyes is the perfect place to start. I wouldn't for what it's worth. Wouldn't correct that at all. You're still invited to the to the. Example. That though like Began to feel with religion. Especially when I hear other people try to tell me what the meanings of all things were. That, it was like sitting in a dark closet with a crossword puzzle that none of the questions and none of the answers connect. And outside it's the most beautiful sunny day on the beach and and everything's happening, and then if you spend your whole time in the closet without crossword puzzle, your missle of the day outside. And I just started to feel that way about religion, which is like a shirt whatever you want believe great at it's probably right is probably wrong. Hey. It's a beautiful day outside to go. Limit is I, think it's room me the poet. Who writes all of this beautiful mystic poetry about finding God about being the toothpaste, but he also has that I love where he says. Don't waste your time in the orchard wondering where the trees come from just need some apples. All I'm saying. If I'm trying to be inclusionary. Saying your stance isn't not mystical, not wonder I. would agree with that. Yeah. Yeah. Your stance is gorgeous and participatory and saying. When we're this is exactly what I was talking about. With Iris, sometimes, I have an issue with some of the traditions that I love going, we're all trying to wake up and escape the cycle of birth and death, which is again, any of the reincarnation ones are like we're trying to get off the cycle. And wake up and that's enlightenment, and then I was like life is is so it's everything even when I told that joke remember and I was like, I'm feeling shame and that's what it is to be alive that sort of my perspective is I'm like even when the flight is delayed and I'm feeling horrible or the headache won't go away just like this is even when it's not a beautiful damn just like this is it. This is an experience like there's a show happening and I what I'm hearing, you say I think it's going to be a memorable talk for me at least I. Think for the people listening is like we can't get so up our own asks that it's dark. Yeah. Put it But with me I think it's acceptance as opposed to a denial. Right? So I'm not denying, oh no, there's nothing greater than ourselves or whatever you know. It's it's an acceptance of that. There's disconnected. And the expansiveness that if you just look at any sort of map of space. I mean how? Where do we begin we're? Trying to some this thing? Well. When in doubt, zoom out, we say it every time I. Bet you know this and I say it all the time. But in the seinfeld writers who made a picture of the Cosmos and I think we could all use a picture of the cosmos. Some people get cold and scared when you think about that. But when I'm having a bad day and I remember. It's the difference between thinking your visitor in the universe or you're a part of the universe, and if you think you're a part of the universe that you belong here that you're not a visitor here, you can zoom out and go like look at the fucking. Crazy infinite mystery. Mysterious. Symphony. Often. Horrible. It's often wonderful. But like look at all of it, we are as someone said on this podcast, were dogs trying to understand the internet and there's a piece there. That is non resistance that saying. I don't know. But I'm connecting right now with Pete. I'm connecting right now at Charlie and that is. The one thing clang with itself in the way that it sees sped meaning reality isn't an error. I just sometimes take issue with the idea that realities in error that we need to break away from. It feels very evangelical to me because I was like this isn't my home. We're just passing through I just. Want get on board with that in right I just reality. What's that? Reality. It's just reality if it is at all, that's right and I think you'll like, Alan, Watt says, the point of life is life is the of life is life which I think is what I hear you saying I, think. It's wonderful. Well, this is my last question for you Charlie. Thank you for for doing a episode. Very in depth conversation. I. Think we covered a lot. I'll tell you and I. Hope you get this way when I, do this and I do it two three times a week. I'm just in a better mood. The rest of the day, there's a, there's a therapy element. The connection element. And I hope you're feeling some love and appreciation and think about the you that you were at the beginning and the me that I was at the beginning like you I've watched myself melt and reform and Melton reform, and that's what the human experience is like. There's the anticipation. There's the what's it going to be? I. Don't know I interviewed people like what if they're not talkers? So there's like nerves, I. GonNa have to go to my notes, and then there's a wilting. You don't get me talking about why like one podcast? There's a, there's a shedding of lake. Oh, I. Think I'm safe like I. Think this person has my best interest in mind meeting for me with you and you and. Yes. And, then you're having a sleepover again, you know what I mean, and then you can actually feel that kind of humanity, which is why I mean. If you ever want to get me worked up, just talk to me about podcasts that like feel like they have to be an hour I'm just like. Says who? Feels like the same people that are like down shoot pilot, you sell a script, you get a producer, you know what I mean. It's like or. Whatever, the fuck you want because it's it's creative energy. Do whatever no rules and granted his music. Go Bang on the piano. Last question. Go be with your family. You already sort of answered it with the Sunny Blueberries, which by the way, some of the hardest times I've laughed the time in your life. You laughed really really hard or maybe the hardest. If you can remember it maybe you were a kid maybe somebody forwarded. Maybe you shit your pants. I. Was Pretty Lucky live I've I've laughed at hard many many many times. I'm a laugher at I'm enjoying this ride. I mean everything from teachers farting. To. Happen to teacher really farted. Oh. Yeah. Definitely. What teacher was definitely high school. But the guys talking the board gotTa squeaks out. Any just causes what he's saying for long enough to know that. Okay. He knows we heard it. We definitely heard. Everyone else seems to be nice. Of keeping their cool I'm lose. A had an. ambling. Maybe. On my own it would it be laughing, but insisting that little sign I glance at your buddy where he heard it too I need. I. Need this in my life. Thank you very much. Charlie Day I really appreciate you taking the time. Thank you, Peter. It was my pleasure. Yeah. Would you say we have the the guest? Say the catchphrase, which is keep a crispy. It's just how we ended this little Richard He'd be crispy. Dated David I. Love It. Thanks, man lots of your family stayed. Thanks you too. Okay. Bye. tastiest. Crispin. So crispy.

Jimmy Simpson Glenn Harrington director Charlie Chicago La writer Youtube Charlie Day New York David Hornsby Rob mcilhenny WanNa New York Williamstown York Charlotte Heeschen Nonni Sam Rockwell
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"Hey guys this episode of the Reed is being brought to you by squarespace where you concern any of your great ideas into reality. Online's for space makes it easier than ever to launch a website. That's all about your passion or your talents or interests or whatever's on your mind honestly and they've got tons and tons of different templates designed so your website can look unique and fresh and modern and not only easy to use but they've got twenty four seven customer support. That's always there to help you. If you get confused go ahead go to squarespace dot com slash read for free trial. And when you're ready to launch us off could read say ten percent off your first purchase of site or domain. Let them know we said hello. And let's move on. Hey all right now. The last thing you need to be worried about is your sexual and reproductive healthcare. That's why planned. Parenthood is here with you wherever you are by phone or video. Their medical professionals can provide birth control information and care STI testing treatment. Emergency contraception and more planned. Parenthood knows your care. Can't wait not now and not ever. S- ago hit and book a telehealth appointment with a planned. Parenthood doctor or nurse today and learn more at planned. Parenthood dot org slash telehealth again planned parenthood dot org slash telehealth. Check them out all right. Let's start the show from the more until night. Who Almost said bit. Stay inside until June July but Andrew Please. We feel the warmth of the sun the girls just WanNa have the girls. Just WanNa have that sally really some Roan is Don. The girls and gays have older girls. Just WanNa have brown eye man we do. We miss it. Those were the days we didn't know how good we had a back. Then we used to make fun of branch while we were spoiled. Yes look got the last fucking laugh though. Lord back to the PODCAST. Yes I I am Kim Cole and I am Khloe Bailey. And this is three. Thank you for coming book. Thank you for welcoming yourselves. Back are nonsense and we're GONNA keep it real regular this week. The US starting with black excellence. This week it's going to some fancy cooking Mo- foes in the Detroit area Chef maxell hardy of coup Caribbean fusion. According to the GRIO DOT COM linked up with Horatio Williamstown Dacian to feed families living in shelters all around Detroit and not only did. He lent his cooking culinary talents to this cause but also linked up with other restaurants and chefs around the city including places like the Black Detroit. Cousos chicken waffles Bangkok ninety-six and literally so many others. So shout out to black folks in Detroit helping other people out amy using your talents and your gifts to do great things for people in this bullshit. Time living in so shout out to y'All yes yes theus was that said we can move on into our pop. Culture segment has called scary tops to bottom in the dark. This week scare us the we are coming fresh off of another versus battle. This last one took place on the weekend was. Nellie versus ludicrous is about pace. Yes that did happen. Yes von Dutch. I did happen and I didn't tune in I mean I clicked on when it like had justice started because I just happened to have been on my phone when it began was like. Okay let me go and check in by an early. They hadn't even connected yet. They're still trying to figure out how to work. It's so like pay like the seventy one like I don't know how many of these the negative done in focus still don't know how to like comments or it's I mean do should either but I don't want to so yes. Yeah I mean it. Looks like ludicrous? And his team tried like it looked like they went through the effort of like making sure. The sound was ready. And why was stabling all that once? Nellie got there like I can't handle it. If the connection is so bad that it makes me wish I wasn't here so I stick around for too long. 'cause Nellie kept having like a B issues and all this but yes. They said he was reporting live from Metro. Pcs I I was gonna be kind right. It was like hey all So how was in each Palooza and they were like No I asked who won and they told me that Luta wind by landslides including some R Kelly apologists as R Kelly. Sympathize comments he made something I guess he said he r Kelly but he wouldn't have around his kids are somehow whatever comment that could have been said to be said dog there. I'm guessing it was something they are. Kelly wrote produced are featured on that was played. I don't know but he was there with his fro in his right train. Right Triangle shaped sideburns. And it just sounds like everyone had decent time. So congratulations. Yeah they're currently trying to figure out who is going to be the next one you know. Super Beets and Timberland's are like the I guess the dean of instagram versus. I don't even know what you would. Whatever but they're like facilitating and these battles and apparently are looking around obscene What have I seen thrown out lately? Asher versus Chris Brown or usher versus Justin Timberlake. Both of those. They're both wrong but okay He actually got on with US. Cher to talk about some other Shea. And the barbs are currently obsessed with Mr Raymond because Sa's beads throughout the idea of a Nicki menaj versus little can and talk. Sure responded that Nikki is a product of Kim. So this wouldn't really work environment weren't having that right. Why do you say that beats the fuck out? I mean who gets shit like you're talking about like a bunch of fifteen year olds from Paraguay? Donate like what are you gonNA ask? He mad at fine. He didn't say anything untrue But then fifteen. Year olds relentless. So but I don't. That's not the reason. I don't WanNa see it. I mean I guess it's part of it you know like they're not pierce came into here really peers Obviously Kim is a part of generation that literally like crawled so that they could sprint. And I get that in a obviously the beef in the comparisons that they've dealt with throughout however long Nikki has been out would make A helvin entertainment fast for Stan Social Media. But most of the time these are people who have been out longer and be people who have like been out sort of alongside when exactly and also hopefully have some sense of respect for one catalog ex employees. That's when it's fun. First of all and look him would never agree to it. I doubt either one of them would want to do it. And it just wouldn't make any fucking sense. I don't think Nikki has anybody to do a versus thing. With most of her career. She was kind of uncontested it. She's GonNa do what she had to do it against a Guy. I think and I don't even know who that guy would be. What are we going also does not do anymore. There is always a. I think the biggest point is what you made about like them being out at the same time. That's what most of these verses seem to be like artists who had not only similar like levels of success. But also you know not. Totally different eras from one another look. Kim's era of female rap is very different from Nicki Minaj is so I mean. I don't think it would work for that reason alone but also because of the barbs would literally never let anybody give Kim appoint ever for any reason and the fighting which is be like. It's not as if Kim doesn't have stands on her own and people who are it's just not it just I don't see the point of it. Besides you know riling up a bunch of teenagers having week's worth of memes on Fox and like I just I don't see the point of it but either way they mad at a for speaking his mind and I don't necessarily disagree with them maybe could have been worded differently if he really wanted to keep the you know the children off of his spine but at the same time. It's like the not hunting through everybody's going to go up against each other if Kim's going against anybody I guess we'd be foxy but that again. They want enough her. Don't know that there's a respect they're done. Yeah I mean I think the versus is actually like a really cute idea. I love that people are having fun with it but everybody don't need to do one. It don't have to be like everybody you ever liked when you were a teenager. Don't WanNa be battles with each other but you know we'll see what they come up with. I guess eventually a horse will die and so to beat it at that. Point is all right. Yeah heartless is that yes. Meghan good has come forward with comments about her skin tone after someone in her instagram comments. made a remark about her looking better with darker skin to. She's been rumored to have gotten her skin bleached because she looks a bit lighter than usual. Someone on Instagram said. Megan looked better dark skin. She's not so pretty anymore. She looks average but her dark skin was above average. Why does she bleach? Megan responded to this person and say I didn't queen a unbeknownst to me on licensed esthetician. Obviously that gave me a product to correct a sun damage. Mark my forehead messed up my skin by the grace of God. Only I'll about eighty percent through recovery and regaining my color daily to be honest. Who is beyond painful and trauma and it was beyond painful and traumatic experience. Because I would never wish that on anybody really appreciate it. If you wouldn't continue to spread assumptions in rumors. God bless you less three asses so chambliss there you go. I mean she does look I guess a taste but also I feel the last time I saw. Meghan good was in the end of that movie. She's am that came out. I feel like last year and I had no idea. She was in a issues in all like ten to fifteen minutes and she just like Meghan good there and on her instagram. Now she just Meghan good to me so I don't really know how the bleaching works like she does. Look a taste lighter. Maybe she don't look like some other people who've gotten this game believes that becoming out looking like slender man because play when it's giving and I know that some people do have situations where they have like trying to like work on their pigmentation or correct like you know cholera damage or Sunday image and things happen or whatever but a lot of the girls aren't buying what Ms Mcguinness silent in terms of her skin. Color personally on dislike sweetie. Love the game that you're in and if you want your skin to be a bit more on the Lisa Bonet side if they I would ask why and Allow you to live your mouth fucking business. Yeah Yeah. I'm on her instagram now and I don't really see what she looks. Visibly like a lighter or darker than any other time I've ever seen her. She's always just been like this. Same General Not Super Lie but also vague. I mean obviously not dark either. So right yeah. I guess I don't see whatever the biggest deal. I would not have been able to notice that something had happened to her in the first place. Why would she make this story about having had sun damage and then having to like do something that didn't work and now she's trying to get hurt cause and then say you're about eighty percent through recovery in regaining your collar daily which implies that like you're working on right getting back to whatever you're caller is like why make this shit up if you knew that you wanted to have light skin and you bleached it for that reason way? I don't know I mean yeah I mean I obviously don't know either. I would love to hear more about how this unlicensed petition ended up giving her a product like don't see that was products. Yeah I think if you really wanted to be lighter you would never tell nobody this story. So whatever was I'm sure it had that what's always in all products? Whatever that skin safe bleaches. It probably had that shit in it. What their talking about it. Yes well I mean. I wouldn't say skin safe. I mean like not clorox is yeah. This formulated for skincare products. But I don't remember what this stuff is called hydrocortisone something like that. I don't know at the end of the day. We are just very triggered by this kind of stuff. Yeah we just have the longest fucking history with dark skinned people being treated like not even try not even in big so this day even by our own people spoken about and treated like where ugly or we're cute for a dark skinned person because you know they usually Ed and all that other stuff so I like the disappointment and frustration and people when they assume things and stuff like that but at the same time like Nah. I don't know if meagan good is a liar or not but I know this is the thing that happens for people. Sometimes so it's Kinda like what do you do? It is this issue not daughter historic occurs any tax to pick up the phone and be like bitch. I know you ain't out here bleaching then I mean get to just have your opinion almost done we. I mean there's not a lot of things going on when you know the fuck down so I wouldn't be shocked so a sex tape featuring an alleged Kevin Gates leaked online a few days ago and has had people who are interested in it bugging apparently Kevin Gates has talked big game about how Athletic Agile and aggressive. He gets in the bedroom. I didn't know this nor was I interested in actually seeing Kevin Gates to me kind of looks like when you blow air into a juice box. It's very much friend And so I just wasn't I wasn't into it but anyhow I did see plenty of the reactions and I figured for show. Let me go ahead and see this video so I can give those of you. Who also don't care to watch it. A bit of an idea. Visualization possibly of what we're dealing with here most people who were interested again because Kevin Gates claims to be the you know universe soul fucker and this video was very lacklustre. It was very boring. The girls were tired. They were going sleep. It just wasn't giving the delivery that he claimed also it doesn't help that. This video looks like it was recorded on a giga pet. As well as the fact that as well as fact that this headboard was definitely passed down. I don't know who's grandma this long but this this headboard is giving me Rose Nine. Linton is so sad day everything about the videos. Just not giving I guess fans or the porn thirsty of us the entertainment. I suppose that we were looking for however both parties in video seem to be having a good time and you know God bless that may be Kevin Gates was just really excited that day. This girl maybe this particular girl is like look I about all of that tossing around a room and fend fucking Fuck up on the ceiling next chandelier. I'm doing regular strokes. I doubt it but you never know. And isn't Kevin Gates the one who said who was talking about fucking because this Oh yes so then as soon as I heard this story about the sex tape. I'm like I really don't WANNA see dismantling his cousin down. It's probably not his cousin in the video but every time I hear his name I'm GonNa think about having sex with one's cousin is GonNa make me uncomfortable. Yuck I cannot believe. Y'All even willingly watch that. I would not have done it. But what the decline seat I was that confuses well and I didn't know anything about him talking about how he likes to have sex or being super graphic because I try not to pay attention so when I found out that that's how he talking and I was like Oh so this is why GonNa Watch this video. Because he'd be talking about all kinds of things he does. Gotcha and I guess they wanted to see. It was true and they expected to get really I guess they wanted some browsers. They're expecting porn hub and it didn't get aches well for free. You take what you can get and again you'd want seeking out a Kevin Gay sex tape so maybe ask yourself some hard questions so many professionals doing it every day on only fans that you could be going you know you can get on one of these free sites and get your life there from people who to this professionally and for a living Kevin Azeem have a tripod. You know or a ring light. Oh no so. What is the production value even give? Is it a selfie stick? What is going on is very much arm fully extended. Oh No not definitely. Don't want to watch. I'm sorry tonight. Isn't the camera moving every time you do? So that's isn't won't work but you know what okay? Moving on to Takashi. Six nine in his airhead extreme looking at online. Getting on everybody's last month Now I fly that. His legal team said that the doll understands that she needs to shut out and Did you know that he wears lace fronts? I had no idea that these were what I did. I know that like I probably did night. And Yeah so this week. He has after. Allegedly having to move relocate relocate wherever he was staying he's now blaming billboard for manipulating the charts and a giving. Arianna Guerande and listen. Bieber the number one and deleting some of the streams for his Song Guba which say that again. The song is called. It'S ALL CAPS G. O. B. A. I want him to go so far away. Like I'm just not team this like and I don't even care about the whole snitching thing because the other thing that he was involved in is trolling. Snoop Dogg. Because I guess he's like ranting about how he snatched and he's still came home and has this huge record and a lot of other rappers snitch. Two and one of the People. He's throwing out there snoop dogg and he's like posting videos where he's sitting in front of the TV in life but his fucking eating. I don't know what the fuck it was like eating and legs crossed and watching some documentary. Our movie was should night claiming that snoop Dogg and other people are informants and is being shady with it of course. New Dot Com responded. None of us doing anything so he had the time. I just want to play a piece. Hopefully can oh. It was the video. Yes video response. That snoop Dogg and the microphone. That there's just a particular way that West Coast Nigga. Say Bitch that you know. I love that word. I don't care and It just set me so I wonder if okay I'm ready for that. That's like a family more drawn out than that. You really case Heathrow in Heathrow in a couple of funky dog here bitches too because you know that's you know about okay bitches. I can't believe Takashi six was is somehow more annoying than he was before he went to prison. It has the opposite effect on white people. How are you more irritating new? Okay so starting with sleeves and beads. They're bigger stars than you. Very huge popstars with rabid fans. It makes no surprise to me that they were number one. It is a huge surprise to me that you charted in the top. Five top T. Yes topic leading right. I would have never guessed so. I don't understand why you can't just count your blessings that you are not only not in prison but that you got away so quickly and that you are even still permitted to make music that you have a video at all that you have a chain and whatever else like get that lace braided and start and leave us. They told us you are going to leave us alone. They said that they said that they. They need to go to jail. So what is it that we need to do? Because I'm so exhausted. And why are you out here fucking antagonizing? Everybody that you can think of dough. Nobody Sweetie as I said last week Gary Spectacle like you're a like a clown. Yes yes you're right at the thank you so of course you're going to garner viewership because people look at your you'd literally have rainbow hair. Leave us alone an actual real life clown yes please do last at least Little Busey in his hamburglar face ass on instagram higher than satellites. This Nigga Mun where he this maybe Embassy might be done. I'm done with this Nigga with discussion and I just I so he was on here. And I'm talking about stilts I and speaking at length bragging even that he has been getting his sons and nephews laid off by grown women since they were in the ages of twelve and thirteen teaching them how to put on condoms at nine tan talking about talking about their underage Genitalia and being braggadocios about getting grown women that he claims he also slapped way to do the same thing to chill. I just you know Zaire. Wade's group chat or so like I know was like I know this Nigga is talking about me and my dad and then bragging about this why this is actual criminal activity. Can we just like this is live this is these are felonies that you describe right now on Instagram? Do you know that this is illegal is at it's wrong on top of that like how busey been a problem? Busey band saying Stupid Shit. Like but sixteen year old me would have never thought that thirty-seven-year-old me would feel this way about Busey. Better s like I just would have never thought this Nigga would have fallen off the way he has with me personally. I'm just like I don't know. Fed Up and grossed out all at once with this Nigga eye contact or even it's like and then crime aside you know what I'm saying like crime aside the way that he was talking about them and their body was just so. My guest is flabbergasted. I can't understand can't make sense and it's like you know mostly laughs and Ella people who are fans doubt. I mean these are children traumatized and right now this is not nine ten years old putting on condoms and they go what having grown women do sexual things to them like people would be. Were rightfully outraged. If he was talking about this what his daughters it would be like. Nigga fuck is wrong with you having this groman coming here and handle your little. It's every part of it is wrong but for some reason NIGGA congratulate each other or be like Damn. I wish my daddy. We'll do that for me. And it's like you wish you would have been traumatized sexually at a very young age because this is not. This is not a good thing. My nigger like these are still children. Even though they're little boys and those are y'all to understand but it's still a violation is still fucking wrong. I'm not shocked. I'm moved out of my spot. 'cause it's Busey. While we're talking we're talking about with a song called they daikin so of course I do let us on but is the classic at no more. I just I'm so done with Busey. And his clear obvious obsession with Dick. This man is so Salik upset right obvious. I just don't get it. It was when he I know when I first got you. Let me be realistic. But it was at some jail stint probably the longest one where he came out and was just like obsessed with dicks and six and talking about you know niggers buck in each other and asking all this and it's like okay I understand you just got out but is this may be a you know. I wish I had the free porn that I used to have right in front of my face. Because how is it that you can't let this go like? Are you really still obsessed about gay people or what you think is gay activity or whatever else but he couldn't even just leave the ignorance there? It couldn't be just you know you being a fucking and saying it's stupid shit about gay negative or prison or whatever else you had to extend that into literally traumatizing. Your own children. Like I hope somebody called the police. 'cause this fucking kids. It was bad enough lascher when we saw that video or whatever of his icebox. Remember that and it wasn't nothing but fucking juicy juice. You're talking yes you do. It was like video video of Busey's house or whatever and a video of the icebox and it was full of bullshit absolutely packed pantry jam packed with Dumb Shit. It looked like an eight year old went food shopping. But a whole fucking family. I don't I can't believe you up. Remember this I literally have no recollection of any of it would be like sending to eleven year old children into the store with cash and tell them to get groceries for the house pictures what that eighty eight percent sugar and in the cabinet refrigerant like case me help all right. They need to be around an adult who will value them and their little lives and their little bodies and who will give them fresh things to eat. Because this is this manager's house which fifty packs a dipstick not the Kula is just all that pre pre-mixed kool-aid whereas the sugar into powder and dance. Dan How we got easy MAC to. Yeah somebody goes save them key. This is wrong. That's hot tops. This week we're going to take a break now. Pay Some bills and then we're GONNA come back with your drama. I mean with letters so listen as folks are adapting to this changing world where be buying stuff online more than effort. If you're anything like me you damn sure are because of my life and if you're an ECOMMERCE SELLER. Are you ready to meet the demands of your new delivery culture? Be Ready Ship Station. Is the number one choice of online sellers? When you're selling anything you can get all of your orders out of the door with Without all the drama and the ridiculousness and confusion in your forehead. Got a million labels all over it. Just takes a couple of clicks and you'll be printing the labels on getting your products out to your happy customers. It doesn't matter if you're selling on Amazon at sea on website Shift station brings all your orders into one simple interface. He had all right in front of you. They work with all the major carriers and eve offer big discounts and shipping costs so easy to do. 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I'm struggling I am physically distancing and working from home and walking outside sometimes saying I've been seeing people via facetime in zoom a few times a week but I am still incredibly lonely and might depression is getting worse. My therapist suggested considering getting together with individuals or couples of my friends. But I don't know if I want to risk getting sick or transmitting. Sickness is getting so bad that I've been living through this thing and thinking about dying a lot. Would you risk seeing your friends in a situation like this? Would it be worth it? I love the show so much and it's really helping me get through having something to look forward to hope you guys stay safe and healthy. Thanks em I think I said it before. I'll say it again. I'm not judging. You know more you know what I mean. Do you know what I'm saying I asked now's but A lot of people are finding ways to get out or to connect with a maybe one friend or one close person or slow numbers and things like that wearing their masks has met suits. Whatever the fuck house like young. If you're if it's your life her going like link up with one to two friends and staying. You know reasonably distant from one another one you do then go for. I don't really know at this point. It's like unfortunately we don't have the leadership that one requires in this kind of a time so we don't really have an understanding of really how anything's going so it's kind of like the country to me. It feels like they're slowly pulling off the band-aid of cut that we got yesterday like trying to see if it's healed and then the band aid can't go back on because you know what's take a band aid off. It's just a route so exactly I don't really know but I can say. Identify with what this letter is conveying and. I think that there are ways that you can get out and sort of harness a bit of your mentality for Positively you know and if that means going for runs going for a walk or like doing something socially out with your friends where you're not all on each other or whatever the fuck man there are ways to be out and be and not be stupid you know. There are ways to be out. Yeah be reckless. I obviously don't encourage it because I would like to be able to get back to normalcy quicker than anything and the more of us that say fuck it. I'm tired of being in the house the longer it's GonNa take but at the end of the day. I'm not going to say you know. I'm I'm basically just done saying shame on the girl wherever I don. Yeah name already doesn't really work. It's just kind of like you know God damn wearing a fucking pandemics. You want people to take it seriously because so many people seem to just be act like this is not really even a thing so I mean she's clearly not one of those right and I fully get that too because you know something that has been hard for me to accept that humans need other humans and we are not really fulfilled as beings when we are completely isolated. So I can't tell you whether it's worth it for you to spend time with your friends because for you it really might so you know and that just is what it is so you get. The Answer. Here depends a lot on how much you trust your friends. And whether they're really you know staying home and only hanging out with you or whatever like they say they are but you know I I would just say that if you feel like is that or given up on life then do like furious at and try to find the safest possible way that you can spend some time with other people because there's no point in quarantining if you feel like it's GonNa cost you your life 'cause exact quarantine into save your life so you have to decide whether you're at that point or not where it's just like girl. I have got to do fucking something or I'm GonNa lose it I am sure that at some point I will see my friends and like hanging out with them again. I'm sure that's going to happen but I will also especially at. I be super fucking cautious. It helps that nobody. I know In New York City has the virus so is like it kind of feels like if you don't have it by now girl you probably not going to get it but that doesn't mean it's time to just go out here and breathe in everybody's fucking air and vibes and just let chips fall where they may so right. When I'm done I will be you know being smart about it and the weather is turning up so it's like a lot of people largest who. I also can only really work within my own understanding of being social our experience my own sort of perspective. I don't have a problem spending the majority of my time at the house Because that's what I do all the time anyway but even myself. I have moments where I'm affected as I've said just by the mere fact that things are just restricted across the board. There are things I would like to have done to my place things I want to like. Get our fix or get rid of or like just little stuff that I WANNA do. Even within the bubble of my home is Conflicted because I can't get things move around. Certain stuff is no been. I can't go here and get that above a bar and so that is the frustration all its own and like although I do spend most of my time at home. I don't never go out so yeah I'm still affected by the fact that I haven't seen friends had hug or anything like that in the longest point. So I'm only imagine like I try to empathize as much as I can at least understand. Consider different perspectives as an introvert. I you know feel what I just said. I know that there are people who really feel safest or feel most like comfortable when they are out like there are people who just chill at the fucking coffee shop and they just people watch and like that brings them Ma and there are people who you know late in the fucking Jim. And that's their lifestyle. And that's what makes them feel whole and whatnot and so people who like really really Finds maybe they're escapism? And being out and being social are really fucked up right. Now my escape is Is totes video games up. Let me tell you something and I just got another. Vr Headsets Ivan playing some beats sabre and a whole bunch of other. Don't even live here anymore. I I feel like other people find escape in lake going and being social with their friends and bike together and like having brunch and whatever the fuck in so I get that but you know I would say again. Hold on if you can just a little bit longer and like try to find ways to to find peace and make sense of what's going on in your heart your home sometimes. Your mind is just racing a million miles a minute and it's hard to really be forced to kind of be in tune with what's going in your mind because you can't do shit to sort of Nassir. Your head is going a million miles of fuck men and maddening. I understand so yeah if you can still stay at home and Lenk suffer along with the rest of us for taste longer. That's where I encourage like Christmas. Said if you just if it's between your life or the streets to find the safest yes possible way to go out with maybe a friend or two because remember this government. Don't give one fuck about you. Not and they will absolutely show s expire. And not about it. So you have to be looking out for yourself in a way that you cannot trust you know the government to do so and others and others correct you really have to. It's a time where we need each other but so many people are. I don't WanNa say trash but the the word is really trashed. And that's what I'm ver- like people know they're sick and still go hang out around others and all that sort of thing in the Psych. You could just not. It's one thing if you're a symptomatic but you know I feel like as more time goes on. We hear more and more stories about people who are like. Oh you know I felt a little bit ill but I just went to three parties that last weekend so I'm sure it was fine and it's like okay girth. You really get a fuck about nobody else but you know it. There's also it could be an issue of you know you being extra paranoid for whatever reasons being immuno compromised or whatever else so is fine that you're being hesitant about it but do whatever going workout for your mental health in the long run and remember that this is a crazy fucking time we are living in and yet thoughts are not necessarily you know real. They're not necessarily what is going on in the world. If you're feeling super negative or bad or whatever right now just let yourself feel it and then let yourself live through it. So best of luck to you. listening on our next question comes from Deanna. Who says I'm in the process of compiling videos of my sister's ferns saying happy birthday to her because we're in quarantine and you know. Naturally her birthday sucks. She stuck away from home with her family instead of at her own apartment because of travel restrictions so I thought it would be cool if all her friends sweet message to tell her how much they love her. There were two people whose numbers I couldn't from other friends so I made up a reason to go in her phone. Okay sounds like you just told us the made up reason. Oh no wait see. She gave her sister. I just know it just clicked for me but anyway. Her conversation with her therapist was right up at. I swear I did not go looking for it. I saw my name though in the conversation and now I don't know what to do. I read that my sister thinks I'm a liar and overall has a very low opinion of me. We've been struggling lately with getting along but my feelings are hurt that she thinks so lonely so lonely of me especially because I'm literally putting together a video. So she feels love. I know I had no business calling her out because I invaded her. Safe-space online therapy. But that doesn't stop the way I feel. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks Deanna Deanna. Play just so I mean you did. You did if anything I guess. I'll be asking to sit in on a session with her who I was going to be like. Look I saw what you said. I mean hurts my feelings. He show that way but that was in a place in his face. Or You should have been safe to say what was on your mind without having to concern yourself with what I would think and I that if possible. You should see if you can sit in on the session with her To sort of UNPACK. Why she feels the way that she feels and sort of come to a Hopefully an understanding of what's going on because you don't sound flag liar bad sister or whatever But I don't know you and I'm not gonNA invalidate anything that she sane but I really feel like the only helpful being at this point. I mean just in my opinion would be to try to talk to someone who can mediate Together obviously obviously she's GonNa be pissed that you Her things so it's like coming at her in a defensive way about anything she said I to me. You just setting yourself up for failure. Never seen. She'd never seen it so I think if anything used to just be like. I'm sorry that I saw this. I really shouldn't have invaded your privacy. You should have been able to say this stuff without me knowing or whatever and I really want us to work on this because it hurts me that you feel this way and that's it that's that's what I would do. That is really mature of you because I was. I do not even think of that. I immediately to well fuck it. Well that's what you get for going through our fucking there APP and and so you know. I think as soon as I read this I thought well you just need to fuck in hand handle live like on your own or whatever but what you're saying makes a lot of sense and also takes account that. I'm sure Deanna you know has feelings and the Corentin is making every situation a hundred times more stressful than it would have been without the fucking virus. Everything if you have an outbreak right now is a million times worse because FUCKING CORONA. If you just got fired same situation your mom is sick absolutely the same thing so I so. I'm going to try to come back to this. You know much more kind way. That kid fury looked at this and say that is probably a good idea. If y'all can talk about it together with the help of therapists but Just like he said you know and and how she might be defensive because you're bringing up something that she said you know in private with our therapist you also have to be ready to accept whatever she gives you coming back from that because she is allowed to go to therapy and say I feel like my sister is a fucking liar because blah blah blah. Because just like you know you have your feelings and they feel you feel the way you do regardless so does she. And so wherever that came from for her. She has the right to work that out with her therapist. Without you getting involved so if you say something to her about it they might just bitch. Stay out my fucking phone. That's what you give or going through my God damn phone and don't worry about what meeting over here talking about. Stay in your talking business like you have to be ready for her to come back and tell you to stay in your fucking place and out of her fucking Well Miss Yeah but at the same time I think it's completely fair of you to take full responsibility for the fact that she shouldn't have been in the her phone but also attempt to like find a in the issue. 'cause I wouldn't necessarily think lowly of me. I'm you know assuming that she doesn't want to feel like you're a liar or feel negatively about you era otherwise I even bring it the fuck a So I would at least want to do something about this I guess strained relationship or whatever that I didn't even know about I would try. WanNa try to fix that. Means that like it just like on Institute for even seen that Shit I need you to back the fuck off for a minute. Give her that space. Because again you wrong but I don't think there's anything wrong in saying like I want to fix this. I want us to get to a better place or whatnot and if that means talking to the therapist together. I'd like to do that or something else you know. And then meet her on her terms with it Yeah I think he didn't have to be ready for that in particular. Because that's real like if I know that my sister feels away about me and I want us to be happy happier. You know like I'm trying to do something nice for this bitch. And she thinks I'm the worst person in the world and yeah I would also want to I would want us to to be in a happier or healthier place. I would want her to feel differently about me. But it's just GonNa be very fucking touchy as soon as you tell her that you read through her fucking chat with her therapist. Because that's such a huge violation. I would be pissed so yeah best of Ti Zhol. Figure that out because that's going to be complicated next letter comes from manned tap. I hope I'm saying that correctly men tap but he writes I've been struggling since before corona hit but she's kicked things up a notch for year boy and one question. I haven't heard answered yet. Is this windows one. No when we should seek out help I there when we should seek out for with therapy. When is it justified to ask a stranger to spend time on us and help us deal with our daily struggles? I have my faults and I often feel like I shouldn't burden others with my own guilt and I constantly tell myself that no one can help me but me but wins the right time to acknowledge that I cannot solve my own problems and should seek help for them. Thank you for everything. You do. Sincerely man tap. It sounds like you are there already. Yeah I think as soon as you start questioning it exactly. Yeah I think at the moment that you start asking like you know when here at wits end as I am at the moment and you have no real other place to turn to As I am at the moment. Wendy if you're starting to. I mean you know I definitely had moments where I considered should I see seek out therapy prior to doing it. When I really did was when I was just I felt like I could not lie to myself or convince myself anymore at that point that I could do it alone like I. I knew at that point that like my mental health was completely out of my own hands and that if I didn't speak to someone something. Drastic was probably going to take place and so. I was literally like on the edge of the cliff when I want but I don't think that you need to be there. I think that if you're just thinking about if you're just considering and if you're having a repeated feeling of just trash emotions and thoughts and outlooks then I don't think you're wrong for me and Mike. Look you talk therapists about any black casting. That's going on. You're like anything you could be going through a break up to a therapist boom. That's what they're there for. You just lost their job. Boom that's what therapists is there for. Your daddy could just be the most annoying motherfucking in the world balloon therapists for your children are ungrateful and never say thank you for all of the things you do for boom. You can really talk to a therapist for anything and we're so convinced especially people of color that we have to like shoulder every God damn burden that takes place in our lives and just walk around with on our back especially Brown women. But you don't have to like literally have the barrel in your mouth like you don't have to be Biden's highway you can just be like. I'm struggling right now and I need some help making sense of what's going on in my life so I can just saves sale smoothly Yeah so yeah I feel like now is probably defined time for you to start looking up someone to talk to. Yeah I know it was time for me to go when I was like okay. I'm GonNa Start doing you know these things to take better care of myself and then could not force myself to do them. It was like incapable of doing what I should so I was like. Okay I need to talk to somebody about why I literally. Don't give a fuck about myself anymore. So That's how I knew it was time for me to go but you know you mentioned some stuff about feeling like nobody can help you. But you and you don't want to burden other people which are should or whatever but you're not burdening a therapist by talking to them about our struggles that's their job like execises some friend that you're asking to Linda ear when it's like a trained professional and they're not just listening like they are obviously listening but they're piskun can also give you the tools to help you manage or should they can help you see They can help you see where you struggle in ways that you may be haven't ever really been able to identify for yourself or they can help put words to things that you've never been able to name before in your own arm and they can help you manage that stuff better. It's not just you know here. I go dumping all my problems on this person for forty five minutes and even if it was that does exactly what you're paying for so literally white. Yeah right so you can do that and I. It's fine to have your faults. Every human being has faults so please don't let that stop you or make you feel like all I need to take care of myself. Nobody can help me. That is the wrong and that is that is a false narrative to have running through your mind that nobody can help you. People can absolutely help you and for some reason when it comes to mental health stuck. We seem to think like all I just. I should be able to to do this on my own. Like you said but if you broke your fucking me or whatever I don't even know if you can break a knee but whatever it is whatever might happen to you you know physically you would care you acid a doctor and it wouldn't be no shame it wouldn't be like well. I just feel like myself so I wrap that Bishop at Rub some Tussin in it. It would be like girl fuel care. Yo Ass onto the guy they will but like. Isn't that the wrong with letting qualified medical professional help you out? And that's exactly what therapy is so there's no need to feel guilty about it or feel like things need to be worse for you before it's time to go. If you thinking about going then you might as well get started on the search. Now because it's not like it's easy necessarily to therapists that you really fucking vibe with so yeah that's true too and may say I might be a product before you find the right right person to ask another thing. That's like an excellent thing to bring up because some people go and they may not like the first session or vibe with the person that I need. And then they swear off therapists altogether or they feel like They made the wrong decision to go to therapy at that time. We're not and it's like no. You can go ahead shuffled whenever you feel like it all right. Good luck to you. Our next question comes from Lauren. Who SAYS I should start this off by saying that my mother and I have never had a good relationship but back in January. We had this huge fight where things were said and lines were crossed. I accepted that I was never going to have a relationship with my mom and stop trying and to be honest after. She told me how she really feels. I didn't want a relationship with her anymore. But this is where things start to get complicated. My Dad has cancer and just had a major surgery to remove the tumor and thankfully he's Ok in. The surgery was successful at been back in my parents. House since Corona Virus cancelled twenty. Twenty helping him as he recovers and staying clear of her. Maybe it's the cancer or my grandmother telling my mom how she can be a better mom but it seems as though my mother has had some change of card. She started asking me to go on walks with her and if she sees me working on something she pretends to be interested and ask questions. I've already decided that I'm done with her. So although I'm not disrespectful I keep the conversation short informal but I'm starting to feel bad for being this way because she can be interpreted as putting forth an effort and all this shit going on with. My Dad is a lot but still. My mother has not apologized for this fight that we head or for trying to turn certain family members against me. She in fact doubled down on opinions of me during our reunion episode. Okay I like the leaves were Union episode. I'M GONNA assume she is like talking about the fact that they are having conversations again and doing a play off of the house or whatever but yeah my therapist things and thinks that I need to let go and forgive her. She told me that I should accept the olive branch that my mom is seemingly giving and work on rebuilding our relationship. I'm trying to use my father as motivation to do this. But I honestly am not past being uninvited to her funeral and I don't want to accept her back in my life. What would you do if you're in a few? Yeah I'm guessing that's one of the things are mother said. Don't WanNa die. Don't come into my. That is some dramatic black period. Bullshit right they're like calm but Kurt it's also like what are you going to do if I do? You're right you're gonNA come back on me bitch so it'd be like I told you. Get your ass off what would you do? What would you do if you were in my shoes? Love you stay Queer Lauren. I'm sensitive when it comes to family so I would have been been lying all right. I'm just vibe out. With this move forward I will forgive and remember and yes forgiven. Remember is important. And that's going to be that you know let it go. She's making an attempt Obviously like she mentioned are like you mentioned The situation with your father's hell is more than likely a huge catalyst in bringing her to this understanding that she needs to work on stuff but I also understand that like acknowledgement in things that were done or said that were hurtful is really important is crucial in like closure in repairing relationships and things like that it's one thing to be like making an attempt to change behavior with a person and being warmer are. Kinda or whatnot but if you said things to me that really hurt me and made it an had an effect on me and you don't acknowledge them. I would think that it's I don't WanNa say impossible because I'm just one man on earth and you know whatever but I it would be incredibly difficult. I think for almost anyone to have their feelings hurt especially by relatives limiting media or air it right right and then them not even acknowledged acknowledging. Apologize for try to make amends. All of the you know the walks and the kind words and things like that. That's great but I do understand why wanting an apology our even just an acknowledgement that you were hurt in the things. That were said I doubt if y'all were arguing and really throwing out jabs that what she said she meant. I'm certain that this funeral comment was not something. She was dead serious about. It sounds like something that you would say when you are just pissed you said here in this letter that y'all both said some fucked up things or whatnot so I doubt that she feels that way. Don't change the fact that you're going to want her to be like I'm sorry for saying that that was fucked right and if she's doubling down on hurtful things that she said. I'm sure not gonNA help anybody so exactly. That's why I'm like I see where you're therapist coming from. But the fact that your mother is like no extra fucking meant what I said has me like okay. So you know. Maybe you don't have to work on Yasser relationship. Maybe you know you can do the letting go part. And they're forgiving part and you know just trying to do your best to help take care of your debt while he's going through all this and then keep your mother at a distance where it's still you know doable for you where you can still be there for your dead and be around this woman without punch and hurry in the face like maybe that's where you end up with that and that's fine as well like. I don't think you have to force yourself to do something just because it might look like. Your mother is making an effort. Maybe her version of an effort is not what you need. Maybe you may know that she can give. That's very possible. A lot of people especially parents like they're my bad there. I'm sorry list. Trash being like their time does like you hungry. And then that's you know like here's a play and that is supposed to mean yeah or be recognized as my bad. I'm sorry when he's good at that stuff but I'm also someone who's not really a fan of like unspoken shit. I like to have a mother fucking understanding with fuck. We're talking about so I would have probably been like look. I see you making an effort and I actually genuinely appreciate that and I would love for us to go back to a place. I'm not over specifics. Are OVER BLANK. Welby will it lists and I won't be until you make amends for that. I need you to acknowledge the shit. That hurt my fucking feelings and apologize if there are things that I said that hurt your feelings and we haven't talked about that. We can discuss that as well like I don't think that we can. I don't think I can properly accept a healthy relationship between the two of us until we acknowledged this stuff I think if your completely fair and you're honest about the fact that you want to get to a place but that's what's stopping you and it still isn't like acknowledged reciprocated or whatever then like Christmas. It you know. Be there for your father and keep your mother at a distance where you're not ripping each other's hair out but you're also not you know driving yourself crazy putting your mental health at risk. Because she'd been pissed you off and on top of that she wanted to be nice to you and also take back the fuck up. She's like don't work. It's not going to be all at. It's not GonNa do that. It's not like just like so. We're on this Walker. Whatever in the morning and you lag. I totally meant that she'd be don't ever pull up to my general houses have been going. Kyle like no. We're not GONNA word right. We can't just pretend inside it and you know coming from your mother. Whatever was said probably hit totally different than if it came from a friend or cousin or whatever else so you know I would. I would do my best to meet her halfway. But I wouldn't sacrifice what I need in order to do it. And if she came meet me at the bare fucking Minima then we just while I mean. Unfortunately we just won't be where you would theoretically like us to be because you cannot acknowledge the you did to me and a step back and one girl so yeah. I mean that's another one that sounds like if y'all could doing group are a session together with a therapist that might help or even if you just have someone in the family who you know is like a really good mediator who who will sit in on. Y'All having conversation kind of call you but out and keep you know what I mean like. That might help as well. 'cause sometimes to people who are in my feelings to people have hurt one another or whatever cannot really communicate it's it is Har- it is hard sometimes to come out of your own ego to come out of your own pain and just accept the facts that are on the table and communicates is really hard to put to the side sometimes and just pour your heart out because you know you're hurt your scorn. You are resentment. Won't always allow you to be vulnerable. So sometimes it helps to have someone in the middle who will be like all right. I know that you'll mean this. This is not the time to say that. Or whatever just this how that person feels obviously feel like blank. If that is something that you feel could help that I would probably bring that up as well as an option because it ain't GonNa make no sense to talk about it again and then just cuss each other. The fuck out once twice. This is even worse now. Okay so best of luck to you. Our last letter comes from Carmen. Who says last weekend was my boyfriend's birthday and this upcoming weekend is our four year anniversary. We had a week long. Trip planned the key West for June. But of course that won't be happening now and so I have a little extra spending money I saved up enough to rent a Canam. A boat at maybe some kind of car. Let's say I saved up enough money. Some rent a Canam for the week. We were supposed to be there as a surprise for my boyfriend because the canam is his impractical dream mode of transportation motor car. Like a truck okay. Great let's see. Atv So he won a road and do audits. Shit yes off roading Dasher Niyaz WanNa drop the ideal mode of transportation. A The fuck you piggly-wiggly but go hunting or something. What is the purpose of it is all right? I decided to use the money saved up in buying something he can keep and got the last brand new Honda Grom. A this is another car. I've never heard of anyway. I bought the last brand new whatever. That car is that the state of Florida head because all the factories have shut down at this point and for good reason he was very excited about it and are good. Our bike okay. Sure our good friends came over the night that he received it to celebrate and teach him how to ride in the parking lot for building and we had a wonderful time. It's been over a week now. And he's only posted one picture on social media and it was the top bar where everything goes away in twenty four hours with no shoutout just a picture of the bike not even saying it was. He's in the meantime. He's received a mass from his friend in the mail. Some items from a tattoo artist like and the Second. He received those boxes. The pictures went up on social with big shoutouts. And thank you so the people who sent them even though he paid for this shit from the Tattoo artists. I don't want I don't. This is such a young people question. I love it. I don't want to ask him to pose a thank you. I don't want to ask him suppose. A thank you social media thing a thank you social media things for me about the bike because that's just weird and disingenuous there past year. He bought me a new MAC book. Whatever the new iphone is with the three cameras and the noise cancelling everytime he's given me something about this stuff for her for her over the past year every time he's given me something. I post on social a Nice. Thank you and everyone. I talked to in real life if they bring it up. I always say that he gave me these things and I always tell people about how much he spoils me and how lucky I am to be with him. He's happy he's happy about the bike around me but am I being petty because I'm upset that he hasn't posted anything and it's a cash way too because I feel like if I say something about it and then he posted is like an obligation and the shit will be weird. Please help Carmen Carmen. I've oh no I feel like this is incredibly Patty. Not Everybody likes to be all out here with their love life. Not just like like sometimes you. You know you like to be a little. What's the word I'm looking for a discrete with what's going on in your romantic life? I would judge the Nigga more based on the way that I am treated with him. are by him when we're together versus some shit that he posted doesn't post on Israel because Nicolette say I'm opposed to shit from you or you or like that. Now we'll say thank you to these other motherfuckers. You give me something on my birthday or whatever and that's something that we have to understand and if you do the same to me. I'm GONNA SUV for the same fucking right But it sounds to me like you are type of person who is super into Flaunting your relationship and the things that make you feel good in your relationship the the gestures from your boyfriend and all that stuff. It's fun for people to be able to like document that stuff and show off and have a good time and so I think that's okay but it doesn't mean that the person you're in a relationship with is going to be on that same type of time it's behinds with you if you posted it didn't tag you in. It can mean a whole bunch of things it could mean all of the negative things that you're probably thinking about those. You went through all limiting of them but it could also mean that he doesn't want anybody knowing who is growing because he don't want nobody to take his girl it could also mean that he don't want nobody to be in his relationship because he doesn't want them asking about and made his momma too like you It could be any motherfucking thing. I just don't think it's that deep and I do think that if you go to him and be like well why didn't posted this stuff to me man. You're just kind of being annoying if he loved it and had a good time together and he posted it then like that's the day I don't know they understand wanting for your vanity light. Oh my God my. My girl is the queen of of the plan. Look at these fancy meek mill. Ask things that she got for me. But I don't think that harping on it and making it. A thing with him is GonNa do you any good if anything next time you know to get that gift card to the chocolate bread and keep a real cute concise and You know smaller package. You know how to move forward from here and Yeah I guess that's that's hard Let that be a lesson for you. This Nigga is clearly not been do the whole. Oh my God and my woman is my queen. Let me you know heap praise and worship on this woman in my instagram comments. Clearly he's not the type to be doing all that so like if you're is it. I think I would just accept that I don't have the type of Nigga who's going to be doing the most on social media and I like you may have written to the wrong people about this because we don't really care I don't care about being honest on social media because I do not post nothing to do with the people that I'm dealing with online and I'll see if I was if I if that was like me if I was the Nigga in this situation and mighty got me some crazy gift that I really wanted. I probably would have done something similar. I probably would have posted a photo of eight or me enjoying it or whatever and not acknowledged that I got it from him. Either because mine's Y'all's business go like. Oh Oh we not. I'm not doing that with John Today. thank you so much stay. Wanted a little shoot like cheeky from him. You know some some people like to go the route of like You know maybe a hard IOM Oji. Are you know they got me forever with the number four ever owned like sometimes like a little something? I understand but I don't think this is something that's worth You know making a fuss about especially if you don't believe that he's black sheeting on you and he also buys you man gifts and treats you like special and things like maybe. I need to do the the love language tests and your love language will be like. I need instagram captions. And maybe he could be like okay. I will give you instagram caption. Since that's what you you know who knows. Maybe you'll see your way and he'll be willing to do something because it matters to you. There is that I think that you bring up a great point because I think you could put this like you could stash this sort of your back pocket and not bring up this part. Take Y- ALERT SITUATION. But somehow in the future may be slipping. She like instagram comments. And see the behavior maybe hint at it in the future and see the behavior changes but I think if you fuss about this he just GonNa get on his nerves and they have like an argument or whatever reason and I just don't think it's worth I me or like you said then he posts on instagram. And it's like okay but now you only do because I say the man cannot win here so the IT and move differently. You know from here on out whether they're saying something to him later or being like okay. Well I'm opposed to me the fuck Outta year. Got Me looking crazy like whatever you whatever you decide to do. But there's no I don't see a way for him to to magically post about this without you feeling like he's only doing it because it's not gonNA happen but keep this in your back pocket for later girl remember this event. They'll hold it against him because he's not like is doing something wrong necessarily but just remember this when it come time for giving gifts and all that when it comes time for post this shit online you remember how this dating man yes it is it is about whether you give me nice things and show other people how much I mean to. You is exactly what I thought about. I'm into it was all about holding stuff in your back. Pocket is gotta be tactical with the one you read is not just coming at you now over the next time we get into it. I've got ammunition and I'm taking you down. This sound like some shit my amy's with say one hundred percent like let me tell you you need to go from this this right here. I'll show you how you can turn this into this bracelet. Just Watch listen my adult play. But that's another story for another day. Let's wrap up arc an excuse to not flay but anyway that wraps up the questions this week again. The listener letters were brought to you by royal oils from head and shoulders. The line makes it easy to keep your hair and scalp moisturised and healthy. I love it so so much. You can find out why when you go to Walmart. Pick up all the products in their collection at Walmart stores are on Walmart Dot Com. All right let's take a quick break and we'll be right back so listen everybody is pretty much gone through it right now. Like literally does crisis is driving US nuts. We're stuck at home and so as we've talked about even all through this episode. It's very important to talk to somebody if you feel that you need to for Mental Health Awareness Month. Talks based therapy is more committed than ever to expanding access to support for anyone. Who Struggling with talk spacey get mashed with a licensed licensed therapist based on your knees and your preferences off from the safety of your home. You can even send your therapist tax audio messages picture video messages off from your phone. Twenty four seven whenever you need it three. Am you can be up something online. And there's somebody who's talks. That will help you. They have thousands of licensed therapist. Trained in over forty specialties including anxiety. Depression relationship issues hint hint wants match. You can begin therapy the very same day. We've had a long relationship with their with talk. Space us at ourselves incredibly helpful. It's just it's just like something you can count on. It really helps so the bottom line is he deserves support. You don't have to struggle on your own talk to talks base therapist. It can be your dedicated support system there to help you feel healthier and more empowered. Even in these uncertain circumstances as listed the podcast. 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It is now time for us to wrap up with our reads. You can go yeah. I don't have much to say this week again. I am barely fucking hanging in there but Last week I wanted to talk about this and I'm sorry that I didn't the story of Brianna Taylor. Out of Louisville Kentucky. Where are you going to talk about the same thing because touch on it? But it's fine. I feel like you'll do. I mean I just the thing about this is that you have heard us talking about this sort of thing one trillion fucking times and I'm actually tired of the bear fucking minimum being something that niggers basically have to celebrate because we can't ever expect that we will actually get real justice or anything else along those lines so if you haven't heard the story. Brianna Taylor is a twenty six year old in Kentucky. Who died when police ran up in her fucking house and let off a whole bunch of Goddamn rounds and the story so the story is is fucked up enough just on the surface but when you actually start reading into the details and it's like this one officer really had a thing for her boyfriend and like had planted drugs on this Nigga before and it was like a personal vendetta China take this Nigga down or whatever and so naturally when people busting your house in the middle of the night the man in. It's not like it's illegal for you to have a gun to defend yourself your family your home. So when he led off one shot and hit an officer in the fucking leg they returned with like twenty fucking rounds and so Brianna who didn't have shit to do is shit not one fucking thing to do with any of it is gone and you know look. I would say with actually getting the police in Kentucky just like with Ahmad Story Out of Georgia as you mentioned that this was in March I don't think I did. I don't think I mentioned this happened. In March yes exactly. This happened in March and I think they only just now decided to do like an internal investigation. It's like when y'all suit and kill fucking civilians. Why isn't investigation not automatically? What's going on because you're not actually give a shit about niggers and we know that so right. It's just very inset. Naturally the media has started going into. Well Brianna Taylor was also not the Angel. You may have thought. She quit her job. And it's like wait. What fo she actually saw a fucking story from one of the local news outlets in Louisville talking about how Brianna ahead resigned from her job last year something and her records were marked as she couldn't be hired back but there weren't any notes as to why and all this and it's like whole the cares. How does that have anything to do with the trying to make this woman criminal now like Oh so? She wasn't working at this one spot. She was working another spot. It is okay. So you're not GonNa get me to say. Oh well this black woman designed for the police to run up in her house and murdered her in cold blood because of whatever Bush like is it has nothing to do with nothing. So yeah these assholes shot this woman eight times and my heart is broken for her family. I hate that. This is the sort of thing I mean unfortunately. It's the sort of heartbreaking story that black families black people have had to deal with since this country began and I hope that she gets the Justice. She deserves but true justice would be you know. Maybe y'all just not running up in somebody's apartment at one. Am In the first guy. Damn place can you please? Just black people live right like you just ran up in somebody's house at one. Am and one officer got shot in the leg. A y'all decided it it needed twenty fucking rounds like wh- you came in here. You bothered me. We arm licensed to carry a gun middle of the night. And you just bus it into my fucking yes. Of course I'm shooting bitch. Of course I'm shooting because white people are fucking crazy. Hell Yeah I'm shooting. They jus- they were looking for a reason. They probably wanted to kill her boyfriend and she was just unfortunate. Collateral damage but BRIANNA. I'm so sorry I'm sorry that this is the world we live in. I'm sorry that this is the country that we have you deserved better and you know I pray. Your family gets the piece that they desire because this is just simple shit. Fuck you mean fuck you mean dog and then trying to smear her name afterwards like now they did the same thing with a young man in Dallas the worm that the police officer accidentally broke into his apartment and killed him. They did the same thing. Well he wasn't great either you guys. He gotta be in Social Studies when he was twelve. And it's like a black people deserve to live. Please leave us alone man. That's it well tremendous the only thing I was going to read our person I want to read. Is My sal so listen to me you getting on my damn nerves. You are driving me a up the wall. Leave me alone okay. I deserve to be happy. I deserve to live. My life is served to be proud of the hard work that I have put in and how hard I have worked as well as to enjoy the fruits of my labor and I frankly tired of me being my inner saboteur and constantly making myself feel live so get off of my back leave. Maybe and figure out a way to get links hair done because she's looking Farrell and attitude stakes. So I if something could be done about that. That would be great. And that's that's all I have. You need to be nicer to yourself like you need to be more June so more patient all that shit is fucking pandemic going on so whatever you're mad at like you just need to give you some fucking gray's well that's the thing like you know that you're being irrational sometimes when you're mean to yourself But it doesn't stop you from doing it and it doesn't also stop you from sometimes feeling like that shit is valid is because like sometimes we just train ourselves to second gas ourselves or to just feel like we aren't where the happiness for whatever unexplained reasons And I think that being in therapy has helped me. Sort of Acknowledged a lot of that shit is being logical because I literally will have to sit down to someone and speak out loud about the stuff that's bothering me. And so I will get to the end of Iran and been done basically like kind of just put it all together myself and and like I guess that is a really make any damn sense and she'll be like but I guess it does. I love that so I think that like I said being stuck inside all of the time being restricted from People and places that would normally make you feel like you have at least some sort of Control. Right like for instance. If you I dunno if like you really take your fitness goal seriously and you can't go to the gym anymore that might affect you or if you can like if you have people around you that sort of help you to to to kind of acknowledged who you are and how important you are to folks around you and all that kind of stuff and then you can't hang out with people or Gosar plate like this little stuff eh. You may not even realize kind of helps. Keep you floating that now that we don't have those things it's like no. I didn't realize how important me being able to go to the fucking barber was. I didn't know how much I needed like free before. Eleven acted know that like district clubs really keeps me from being irritable. I Dunno what so. We're sort of style ever thinking. Yeah too much over thinking everything having all of this time in our hands and a lot of the stuff that we would typically due to be like you know level. Yeah we can't really do them or the way that we do them is compromised. I've really liked go into the gym. It felt like I was not near where I wanted to be in terms of looks. I like working out because it requires discipline and focus and stuff like that that I feel like I laugh sometimes and it's really hard for me to do it at home. So that's a factor among other things like John just dealing with a lot of spots. That are just running through my mind at a like astounding rate and. I know that I'm not alone in it. Which helps because like he got letters from people who are dealing with the same thing and it's just the thing that we have to by just have to acknowledge sometimes that I don't do myself any favours like we're not we're we are doing a lot of harm to ourselves and we just kind of sit back and think negative things about ourselves or are just like an unkind to ourselves forever list of reasons and it doesn't always just mean that you're immediately going to change the way that you process things especially it's habitual like it has been for me but right at the same time it helps. I think to sort of acknowledge more. Like you're bugging you being lower rational. It's fine that you think this. It's okay that you went this way as long as we are acknowledging that that's not our truth and we can turn the fuck around and go back to what we're going to do because I'd like to believe that. This corona virus shade is not going to last forever. It's going to take a while before things look the way that they used to 'cause even when outside is open again they're going to be so many things that are going to be likely for the rest of like our live Things are just not going to look very different. The way that we're GonNa talk about this when it's all like we're still in it so like a lot of the stuff when we're out of it is still going to be affected by it and shit like that so. I don't know I'm just trying to be more patient and real with myself and like acknowledged it's fucked up and it's totally okay to be because like I've even had people around me who are like now dealing with stuff I've dealt with pre Rona which is like depression. Yeah and just being cooped up in the house and not being able to go anywhere and lacking the motivation of even getting up and washing your own ass and all that Kinda stuff like people are in Shit right now. 'cause they're fucked up behind this and I totally get it but I'm like not everybody realize it realizes that it's like okay not just to feel that way but it's okay to feel like trash because shit is trash right now and you don't do yourself any favors when you're putting pressure on yourself to not feel like trash or putting pressure on yourself to do a whole bunch of shit that you have to figure out how to do now any goddamn way because you can't do it the way that you use to is perfectly okay to sitting your bad for twelve hours and eat bugles and watch. Veronica Mars on Hulu. Shit like it's perfectly okay to do this ship for a day because guess way you the list of things that you can do right now to totes short not much not much on their girl and at the same time. We're all going through some fucked up shade and it's not where it like so many of us especially by people. We equate productivity to like. What were you looking for like Mike? Not just like health but like response like we we look at like productivity as a responsibility that we have in order to like be the people that were supposed to be shit like that and so if day goes by that you did in like trim the Fucking Hedges or Finished Balancing Checkbooks. There's anybody even still do that. I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about anymore. Like if we do like we are so means are so sometimes for like sitting back in our feelings. Yeah that's fine. It's totally okay to just sit back and feel your feels even if they're not good as long as you're making at least trying to make sense of them and coming up with ideas of what you can do to fix. I Shit in the future Yeah but yeah I like I just be driving myself crazy thinking unkind things about myself and I find that now I have to make a habit out of being like oh girl shut up and feed the damn dog and take the bishops is worth is not tied into however many assignments you got done in one day or whatever like if you didn't do the things you were quote unquote supposed to do that day. You know it just depends on how important those things are as to. Whether that's really going to be an issue for you but first and foremost you have to take care of yourself again. These are crazy fucking times and I have definitely had moments especially over the past few weeks where I catch myself cause. I'm just like dragging me unrelenting very and be like okay bitch I see where you coming from but also not too much on my bitch because we're going through a fucking pandemic so just be easy with the way you talk about girl so yeah that's pretty much it. Yeah I don't know I'm still a work in progress on a lot of things and I'm also doing stuff that I really liked to do. And we literally also run a business. Yes so that is hard so it's a lot and sometimes you just feel like you know eating some ice cream at your bed watching whatever you feel like streaming and that's fucking fine and if you do that ship for three four five back to back days right now. Guess what can't believe it's okay. Fine if you're fucking cousins and your ex ante or whatever all you know doing their jumping Jackson sit in the living room every fucking Monday or whatever like if your thing right now that is making you feel level. An piece is chilling. Then great and it's just not fair. It's not rational last sensible free to beat yourself up over a whole bunch of nothing because you can't put your thoughts or whatever to the use that you are used to think it just doesn't make any fucking sense and again I say all of this and I will likely still read myself down before I go to bed tonight by backed it should up with also like shut the fuck up and then again my dog listen me like why do I live here. Can Somebody please come. That's I'm surprised link has not come to you would've listed demands like I need my nails done. Something has got seven does she. She put both pause on my hand. Today allows on the computer and I thought he was trying to say to me. Look at the look at my plan. I'm disgust might have looked this crazy. You lose the DOC plays open like the place I take. Her is opening something like that. But I'm just not gonNA wait just a little bit longer. Grow your Yorkie. They be having long hair anyway. So you will be. I know how to keep it healthy. I brush the bed. She Iran saying I make your clean. She's cleaning but he's used to a sort of coat of my nails Polish. I don't what is going on. So you're GONNA wake up one day. She going right. Groomers something on the fucking bathroom mirror and you'll be like right. It is time to go. I expect that she will just have moved with the crate to the front door. And she'll just sit in. There should be like whenever you want us. I'm done I'm having so much work you know. I'm sure but it must be nice to have a sense of responsibility to something other than yourself right now hell like having am losing it. I'M GONNA have to get a brisket or fish or something. 'cause cats and fish for. Cats ARE SUPER BIDS. I don't need you at all. Go they me like dogs are super like your face. Most of the time I wanNA play and will like love. You almost cats are like I've got this like I don't need you. I will find food. Yeah Unclean Myself. I don't WanNa be touched until I feel like it. You can actually stay away from me and everything and here's mine like that. Please don't forget none of that but Well that was a word and I'm sure somebody needed it so thanks for sharing. That's it for this episode of the read. Yes only listening. We are here once again. Don't forget to check us out at this is three DOT com. Follow us on social media at this is the read you can shop our March at shop the read Dot Com. Isn't that what it is? Yes Jesus God how am I? Yes is shop the read Dot Com to get your hands on some of our merch and I think that's it anything else for you before we get out of here I don't think so. I remember last week our between now last week. I'll tell me something I wanted to thank you for but I don't remember what that was when I do. I mention it because they'll be put me up on game out. Did you actually finish watching Stephen University Now I have been holding onto it because I do not want it to be over. Do not want it to. I had to say goodbye to too many things. I fucking Love Bo. Jack and good place in every fucking of everything else in did corona has taken a lot of joy away from my life and I just do not want Steven Universe to be over. So I'm holding. No I'm just GonNa Start the whole thing. I watch did to start from the beginning and just watch the whole last thing all over again. If you're struggling just watching steven universal it will make you feel good probably will make you feel better actress like yet. Believe it okay. That's it we'll see you guys next month.

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Coronavirus, History and Legal Considerations

The Dave Gram Show on WDEV

1:32:27 hr | 1 year ago

Coronavirus, History and Legal Considerations

"From Radio Vermont. It's the Dave Graham. Show on W. DV. It's your show about the people places and the issues that matter the most to you. Now here's your host Dave Graham. Good Morning Variety. It is Tuesday march the seventeenth. Two Thousand Twenty Happy Saint Patrick's Day all those out there who are still trying to celebrate Saint Patrick's Day despite These Very Bizarre Times. We are living through with corona virus pandemic the country in the world and all of the precautionary measures folks are taking in response to the corona virus. It's it is just mind. Boggling the changes that have occurred in our in our state in our country over the past week or so I'm looking at a whole stack of paper here. my colleagues have been collecting up here at the wd. And I'll get to some of the particulars in a moment for stuff that people are recommending stuff. That's been canceled Order out yesterday from the governor which will review for you in just a moment I wanna mention it a little later in the program. We're going to get some historical perspective. Marc Busch now is going to be joining us on the phone to talk about the flu. Pandemic of two of an excuse me of a nineteen eighteen and nineteen in. Vermont was a very very tough time. We had some words from Ken. Squire of w DAV about that Yesterday and a little more detail today from Mark Bushnell do believe In the latter hour of the program I saw some stuff on the On facebook over the weekend where people were asking questions about. What do I do if I finally get around to Drafting up a will are there. lawyers people recommend to go see about Getting that going or are there ways to to Get yourself a basic will draft it up you know. Can you do is? Is it something that is amenable to a do? Do It yourself approach. We're going to be talking with Dan. Richardson our our friend and legal analyst. Here on the day Graham Show and Wd FM and am in the latter the program. This morning Dan will be joining us also by telephone to talk about the The what people ought to be thinking about it they are starting to have Have thoughts about About making sure that they're they're like he's a plan for and You know I don't WanNa be overly morbid here. I just want folks to be able to have whatever information Might be useful in these times. obviously The Corona virus is is Expected to Killing a number of people in the United States of America over the coming months We don't know how many obviously many of the steps that are being taken now are designed to limit that outcome and But remember we all are GonNa die someday in some of the information that we would talk about in terms of in terms of what to do about drafting a will Should come in useful at some point in your life even if even if you think Any fears about the current situation are are overblown or whatever. I think the The word we're getting from responsible voices out there is it the fears that people have been voicing in a recent weeks Certain here a lot about him in the media and so on not really overblown Anthony FAUCI was on national television yesterday. Talking about Dr Anthony. Fauci talking about the The fact that It's very very hard to or estimate where we are in the course of a pandemic because every time you turn around the situation is matching. What may previously have been Considered an exaggeration Basically and so We're again. We are in And Very Uncertain Times very difficult times I wanna be a source of information and and also just an ability for folks to call up and share their thoughts about You know what what they can do to Give Comfort and solace to our friends and neighbors here in our W W E listening community You know this is Something none of us has ever been through before and we are obviously WanNa make it as as smooth a processes we can if If that's possible as we go forward into these coming weeks and months here Speaking of weeks in monsoon the president yesterday really adopted a what a lot of folks are describing is a new tone on this a much more somber tone. He earlier on was pretty dismissive about the whole thing. A couple of weeks ago is calling it. A hoax being exaggerated by Democrats. The damage him politically and now he is talking about the idea that we may be in some trouble of at least through as he put it. July or August of this summer Other commentators have been out with less Twenty four hours saying that that's That is a guest and people talk about educated guesses based on very limited education because We have not had a situation like this in the United States. Exactly like this before in the In the modern age and so who knows it's really We're going to have to see what comes. And that's we're all getting a pretty stiff lesson in life uncertainty right now. It does seem if you have any thoughts or ideas or comments that you would like to share here on the Dave Graham Show and Wd FM and am and open the phone lines for the first half hour or so of the program Before we are joined by Mark Bushnell and we are going to be here in available to you for your thoughts to be shared two four four one seven seven seven is the local number here in. Waterbury the toll free number one eight seven seven to nine one eight two five five We Have Rama on the line from Williamstown. Good Morning Rama boy. You're you're being a real w donor this morning. It's a tough time. Isn't it? Well Yeah I'm but that doesn't mean you have to be entirely down. I you know. Can I leased uplift the spirits? A little bit as we move forward. I know there every expectation is that yes it gets worse before it gets better but every expectation in everything we know from past history with these sort of things means it it does get better and eventually you know we do reach an end of this one. So yeah that that's really. I you know as people who do the things that are necessary to get through to that end of the tunnel is to realize that there is an end to this and that it isn't just a forever thing I mean if it turns out to be forever fine I'm wrong but in which case you know it's going to really then then. You're not a Debbie Downer. Well I I don't I'm trying to trying to be Responsible here and I don't WanNa be overly pessimistic. I don't to be I don't WanNa be overly Pollyanna cheater. Let'S LISTEN NO I. I agree you're doing fine but you're still being a Debbie Downer. That right I also just want to. You know I think one of the points to make here for the last twenty years. We've heard a lot about Thank you for your sacrifice and thank you for your service as we you know. We hear that from people talking about various uniform services. This is time for people to stop saying. Thank you for your sacrifice. Thank you for your service and start providing that sacrifice and service. This is everybody's opportunity to be equally involved. You don't need any special skills to help get a community through this type of event just needs to be part of the community and that's how we will get through this. Yeah that's a that's a good. That's a good point Rama What do you Give me some ideas for what people ought to be thinking about doing. I I sorta here as he chatted online about You know I don't really know what to do. People say well I listen to I if you don't know what to do call up a neighbor and talk to them. Yeah you know that. That's at least something and I understand you know. Part of part of what makes us can make a situation worse as a feeling of helplessness. And you feel helpless when you feel like there's nothing you can do so find something even if it's simple stupid like calling your neighbor to do i. My intention is to get around to the immediate neighborhood here and whether people wanNA talk through doors or stand six feet away you know. I don't care if they WANNA stand closer. I'm fine with that too but you know just so people in the neighborhood know that we're looking out for each other because it's it's not just the concerns about health and food. There's also you know the possibility of needing to you know. People taking advantage of the situation of fi more houses to break in etc. So there's lots of things that you can do is a local community to make sure they people stay safe and are taken care of in a lot of your neighbors or maybe even you have things like backhoes etc. That might come in Handy. If if let's say supply chain start to break down some right. Pdf sources of food stocked. Up People might have the availability to start in early garden etc. So I think a big thing for me is all right. Maybe I'm thinking too far ahead on this but I like to get out a step ahead and say what happens if it gets a little bit worse. What is it that we need to be doing? What happens if supply chain breakdown? Where would we be best to Be Able to provide help for each other. You lose gasoline. We've got people up and down in different directions on Here in Williamstown for me that have draft horses that are trained to pull loads. Yeah that's That's those are all good thoughts around my appreciate the call. Stay in touch show. Let's hear from you again soon. let's go to Paul and Moncton. Good Morning Good Morning Dave. Sorry for calling. Today's enroll but I had got the incident but an interaction gentlemen the other day that brought up a question that I didn't have any answer for and I met. I met this guy in line at the supermarket and looked and we're talking about like no trends generally through my business and And that's just like that. He said he's young. He should be able to get through this. You know with our big damage in terms of being in his late Twenties early thirties. Maybe mentioned his wife is pregnant and I got thinking I've heard about elderly. We've heard about you know people at the immune It's what about pregnant women and or Newborns we always hear about newborns. I have a fully developed immune system you talk to a health expert at some point. Get some answers as to whether or not should be staying away from Young newborns or are pregnant women that is a very good question actually You had not across any discussion of that specific question yet and I think what we're I'm going to do is I'm going to see if I can text us someone from the health department and ask if they have put out any advisories geared to That specific part of the population. Because obviously we want to be sure that are that are pregnant. Moms in in our in our newborns are are kept in the best possible and So that's that that's an excellent Suggested thought there Paul and I appreciate the call. Thank you so much my good friend Lee. Tell here in our engineering booth Has a couple of words you might like to share Lee. Yeah I gotTA take issue. It's something you said earlier in the show. Dave where where you implied that no. No one has experienced this type of thing before flora aims Waterbury Center. She's celebrating her one hundred nine th birthday today. Wow so I'm pretty sure. She was at least seven years old when the Spanish flu came through at the end of World War One. I'm not sure what she might be able to share about it. But at least there's one person out there that may have survived and lived to tell the tale that is That is pretty darn good just to live that long. Congratulations Lorella aims of Waterbury. And Wow. That's one hundred and nine years old. You said Yeah. One zero nine today. Congratulations for ELA and happy birthday. Yeah okay well here LE. Let's go ahead and quibbling because what I was thinking when I said that I said I part of my mind at the time was saying yeah we didn't have the Spanish flu one hundred two hundred and three years ago but in this modern world here now where we have all this international travel going on We have the way our economy works. That is so heavily intermeshed with all of this huge worry for a lot. An awful lot of people you know. I it definitely would it was. It was a different world back then so I don't know that you can really make a direct comparison but I will. I acknowledge certainly If folks know how we can get a hold of museums and if she were able to come on our air talk to us about anything she remembers from when she was little girl in that last pandemic I would love to speak with her right. Don't go visit her. Though I one hundred nine she might be one of those vulnerable persons that we WANNA protects. We'd be we'd be talking by phone. I'm pretty sure center. Phone call so I was thinking oddly enough when Rama was discussing the idea of of of taking part in volunteering and stepping up and part of this crisis. The irony that This this outbreak is basically like the the apathetic person's dream scenario. Because what what everybody really wants you to do is go home and do nothing for the next fifteen days. So if you're by doing nothing you are contributing your effort to preventing the spread of the virus here in in Vermont and around. I have seen a couple of memes online. Saying things like you know Previous generations when they went and sacrificed was crow calling through crawling through the mud on some Pacific island These days what you have to do is go. Sit on your couch him. Listen to the radio for the radio. Checkout Netflix whatever. Whatever you got going on it is a Shouldn't be really at that Folks so Heo. We have a caller. Let's go to guy in Berlin. Good Morning Guy. Good Morning Dave so I walked around Mont to your yesterday and talked to a lot of businesses and some nonprofits and just sort of got a sense and some homeless people and their advocates and got a sense of kind of where they're at with all of this and A couple of interesting things. I've found that even though there's not much activity normal activity there's adjustment you might say for example. I stopped an beeper which is a usually a bustling place very active Government advocates one person. There she was making photocopies but everyone else was working at home yes. They weren't there but they were working. went by the the City Hall and narrow additions for frozen have been cancelled except that now. They're taking them. Not In person but by video submission. So there's the auditions are still going on there. Just happening differently. Yes Yup people are adapting right right In in most cases Kellogg Hubbard of course had to close which you know. I know the Library People I. I went to a from a Library Association meeting a couple of years ago and they talked a lot about libraries being Hugs of resilience and sustainability in a community crisis. And it it they they had to close i. You know I'm not. I'm not criticizing but that to me. That is a loss right there when don't have access to Library Insurance Arnie? My son generally does all of his online. He brings his computer over there and uses their WIFI actually have to invest in the thirty bucks a month. Whatever from consolidate communication and get his own and his apartment and I think a lot of other people are. That's one of the adjustments as you say that they're going to have to make yes. They're going to be a lot of adjustments and and You know I think that if if people can sort of keep a What are they used to say? In Britain in the Second World War keepers. Keep a stiff upper lip. I guess is basically Dave the most interesting experience I had was talking with a a homeless street coordinator and some of the homeless people down in the courtyard in front of Trinity. And the first thing you said was the The Lhasa bathrooms when I walked over that way. Subway was still open. And and even though you're not supposed to use it they do By the time I was about to leave speaking with them five an estate or a lady came back and said well just closed subway unless bathroom you know and so they're talking about putting Puerto. Let's in there but it's been hung up because they're in those quarterbacks are located would be located in the Trinity Courtyard in a flood plain so the regulations would say no no no can't put a portal identify play and I mentioned that to Iran do Bradford who's our our one of our senior administration officials financial officials a few minutes later. I said. Hey how about relaxing some of these regulations and I'm happy Darn Puerto. Let's and he said actually. Puerto lattes are a perfect example of hot spots for transmission. And that's the last thing you want to have is a public portal at from transmission point of view. So you have these competing needs and you know where do you where do you? Where do you take care of the need without route increasing the likelihood of transmission? Those those are very very good questions. I I I hope that people are Are Recognizing That You know there are basic needs out there folks and let's keep. Let's keep all that in mind. I mean People have to go to the bathroom so it's not There that's not an optional thing. So let's Let us let us keep in mind. What sort of what? The basic human needs are and keep trying to meet them in some fashion or another guy. Thank you for the call. I appreciate it okay Well I just Wanted to also Mentioned that remember that as of this afternoon the Bars and restaurants around Vermont will be closed for all but Take Out We have an announcement here came out. Actually from the governor's Yesterday Talking about New Guidance in response to Kobe nineteen commonly known as the Novocur Corona virus. Today's guidance updates executive order issued on March thirteenth which declared a state of emergency in Vermont and The governor said yesterday wants to restrict gatherings to fifty or fewer people or fifty percent of the occupancy the rated occupancy of facility and also the governor's ordering the closure of all bars and restaurants. Statewide establishments can continue to offer food. Takeout and delivery service. The measure takes effect at two PM. Tuesday that's Today folks in about I guess Four hours from now so make plans accordingly Let's go to a caller Forbes and current good morning Forbes now that the people and and businesses have made a sacrifice Can we take a look at what goes on within. Let's say the telephone companies credit card companies. The banks things like that on late payments fees of such penalties. Yeah I think I have seen suggestions about that idea. for You know a moratorium. Essentially on on on mortgage payment collections on rent collections and CETERA. That may be something that would be very much worth considering. I think that's an excellent suggestion. Forbes I gotta go to our body our break but thank you for the call. I appreciate that That thought let's do that. Cbs News coming. In and more of the day Graham showed a follow stay with US folks Lawson's finest classic clothing and cutting edge fashion. Are you've sandwiches and grab and go meals toys? A wide selection of Rosa jewelry accessories quarter pound cookies and even more beer. The Yankee magazine doesn't call us the best. One Stop Shopping. Vermont for nothing. The warrants store where funky friendly in almost world famous. It's the Dave Ramsey show. Wd FM and am. We are back and I wanted to choose our next guest. Marc Bushnell is a longtime Vermont writer. And I think there's at least one book to his name and maybe a couple we can find out more about that From mark he's on the phone with us this morning. He writes a lot about Vermont history and had a very interesting piece the other day and veto Dot Org. Excuse me about the last Corona virus update in our Rather Corona virus about the last Pandemic in Vermont the Spanish flu pandemic of a of a nineteen eighteen nineteen nineteen. Good Morning. Margaret Bushnell. Thanks for joining me. Marquis thanks Glad to be here. Yeah sorry that this wasn't. It's not a happier time to be on the show. Yeah well you know I think we History helps to helps us to put things in perspective. And that's one of the things I love about. Your column is that so many times you you sort of. Take a a threat of what is going on in the current Seen in Vermont and say Here's how something similar or related or whatever played out before and I think it's important In it really provides some some great perspective I think for folks and so Kudos general on your work I I really enjoy it and BTU and in other publications that have run your stuff in the past and but talk to us a little bit about this about the situation and we are just just past the hundredth anniversary of the Of the it's called the Spanish flu although I guess a lot of folks that's a misnomer talked a little bit about what happened in Vermont back. Then yeah I mean I think it's an interesting story to look apples because of the similarities And the differences I mean and the differences are pretty important But it was a case where Vermont sort of winning lockout for a bunch of weeks And people had to deal with it. I mean I think People weren't as used to being as but of course you know. I think small communities were thriving and people were used to seeing neighbors but over time the state. Eventually you know shut down schools and and Louis houses trinkets and things like that but I think it's important. It's amazing to look at the station that had particular endemic caused because Vermont about fifty thousand promoters fell sick and in nineteen eighteen and then in the nineteen a total of twenty one hundred Died which is amazing in a population about half the size. We have now I mean this was totally different ailment. and in some ways much more terrifying because because of the people killed more than half of the victims were in their twenties and thirties and forties which As Montessori Michael Sherman is point out made the Spanish flu particularly Tragic because a lot of people dying when their middle years these parents so a lot of children were left after the pandemic with only one parent or no parent and they were often off to live with relatives elsewhere. I mean I think a lot of your listeners may have a family history where you know a grandparent or great aunt. Or you know great grandparents or something Passed away in in in the epidemic And the and and it was also a lot more The mortality rate was a lot higher. I mean looking at the estimate was probably two and a half to four times As as deadly people who showed symptoms as the corona virus And a lot of that is because they didn't have things like Antibiotics which you know. Of course don't treat doesn't create influenza but it it treats killing people then which were the secondary Bacteria bacterial infections like pneumonia Which were was the leading cause of death in they also didn't have anti-viral drugs ventilators. So we're all taping away We do they have any any. I mean anything analogous to you. Know people talk about ventilators respirators that kind of equipment today? Anything like that back then. What's that I'm sorry? I didn't catch that just wondering you know talked a little bit about medical equipment. People are talking about possible. Shortages of things like ventilators and respirators. Today if if if a large number of Americans become ill and overcrowded hospitals and so on but none of that stuff was available back then right right now. I mean I think basically they. They didn't really know what to do with people You know people just become in and I think they were given liquids or you know what they could yeah. People just died really quickly and From the Spanish flu Because I mean they'd they'd come in one day and they often you know they'd be dead in their bed the next day. It was Horrifyingly quick And like you said that I mean there just weren't many talked I wrote about this back. In nineteen ninety eight on the eightieth anniversary was able to talk to some strivers In in one of the guy in centers said that you know the cure back then. Everything was chicken soup and the the deaconess of local church made a huge hot. It used a wheelbarrow dip like take the pot around to her neighbors and just gave him soup. Because you know what else are you gonNA do? Yeah that's that is You know I mean I know you do have to sort of marvel at the at the degree to which medical science has advanced in the past In the past century when you reflect on on Kind of how how basic and rudimentary it was back. Then compared to What treatments are available? We hope you know and we hope enough of them In the modern era here What do you? What do you think would be Sort of the number one lesson you would want people to take from the Vermont's experience in that era. Yeah I mean I guess number. One lesson probably I mean I think sort of the state's done an okay job. it The the mistake they made or one mistake they made was I mean they I got word of it in in late September and they were saying but probably not going to close any public meetings and a week. Later you know peop- They're like Berry. Which is the hardest hit community during this You know is losing like ten people a day and then and then to a week later they decided to go ahead and shut down state schools churches and theaters and prohibited public gatherings and it's I mean I think that's just it you know that the solutions are sort of simple For the average person which is just really Heed the warning about social distancing. I mean we're all going to have to pretend it's one really snow day Yeah I I I I it's it's a completely different feeling I must say now. What do people write in any memoirs or whatever about about the sort of sense of foreboding? I mean my sense now. Is that a lot of people are are it's it's hard emotionally for some people because they sort of feel And I don't WanNa be accused of being a Debbie Downer by the caller was earlier today but I You know a lot of people are feeling pretty oppressed by this in some ways. Because they don't know what's coming they don't know It is that sense of foreboding. Isn't it yeah I mean I I? I've been reading about What psychologists have been saying? Which is that humans deal with uncertainty a lot worse than deal with certainty I mean you know so. I think the idea that that you know something. We're lucky that we're not the You know other countries yesterday and you can learn from the failures that way. I mean I think that I mean back in in in the Spanish influenza air. They really didn't know what was coming either. I mean they. They made the mistake of even thinking. It was a Spanish influenza in reality it probably started in Kansas and was taken by American troops to Europe and The thing was that all the countries that were fighting censored their newspapers and they didn't as much earlier. They didn't want word to get out that they were having an epidemic in their countries so they censored the newspapers Spain with neutral and they wrote about it. So being disassociated with Spanish influenza so it is It is kind of remarkable. How information gets distorted like that and and and really can have an impact on the way people sort of think about historical events. You know here here. We are a century later. Talk a little bit about About the People's behaviors around The That that flu epidemic back. Then I mean was where people hoarding toilet paper or anything or were. They don't think so. I thought that the sears catalog was the preferred to okay for that houses at the time. But I know I mean. I haven't heard that many stories about bad behavior. I you know I went through and read a lot of newspapers at the time. And you do see you know. Funeral homes prominently advertising. You know their wares in newspapers and you know and a men's clothing store saying don't go without your out your raincoat you know. Catch it difficult or whatever you need to. Do you know troubling times or something like that and people people were using it to promote their businesses. They weren't you. Know Boarding. Hand sanitizer in jacking up the price but well actually not that. I read in Vermont at least. Yeah that's I TAKE IT'S A. It's a fairly reminder when you mentioned the sears catalog because I was I was We were in touch with a relative of mine Over the weekend who was remarking that the She's she's traveled widely in Africa and other Other developing parts of the world and so on and and and And she you know she was remarking that in many parts of the world people who have never seen a role toilet paper and they get along and somehow somehow people do Do Survive Where WE WANNA go into too many details? Exactly what happens but that's We have a caller on line. Tom From Worcester. Good Morning Tom. Hello Hello Okay this is. Tom Occurred in Worcester. And I'm calling to tell you about a book of poems. They'll envoy road and it was about the Spanish flu and experiences. She's a people that she's talked to Who who lived through the flu and or who didn't and it's called Kyri woj or I e and it's been book of poems and she. She was a locally poet. Oh sure yeah I I wasn't. I'm not familiar with that. That's fascinating that it's a really really touching book How how people died or how. They didn't their personal experiences which she Recreated in her own poems and You know this is available like some of the local bookstore or I've had a copy for years and years and put. I bought another copy to send to a friend just recently at the bear pond bookstore. So Wow I I know that bear pond book is is Somewhat Limited. But they are They are talking about doing deliveries and doing You can pick pick things up at their back door So called bear five bucks if you WanNa if you WANNA get a get a copy of the of this This is Refreshment at first name. It's Ellen Melania weight and and And Book is Kyrie. It's a book of poetry reflecting on the flu epidemic of of of nineteen eighteen nineteen. Marc Busch shown my mark. Thank you for the call Tom. That's a that's an excellent Great suggestion excellent suggestion. Yes mark are you. Are you familiar with that buck? Yeah I read it twenty years ago when I Back when I 'cause I when I wrote on the eightieth anniversary but I have to admit I haven't reread it but I think we're all going to have plenty of time to do reading. The people are coming up with quite a reading list right now. Of course there's journal of the plague year by Daniel Defoe. That was probably one of the original major works of Literary Journalism Back in the black flag days of UH and and and who's There's another I think there's a book The Plague Camus and others. I've seen I've seen. She suggested by folks online. There probably is a you know. Sort of Larry Collection folks could familiarize re familiarize or familiarize themselves with over the next couple of weeks. Would you're hanging around the house looking for stuff to do as long as they don't create themselve backed by? Because you know situation. Yeah I just say I. I recently read a book. It's not exactly related. But it was on Lights and London during the blitz and I you know I found oddly comforting because you look at what the Brits got your when the Germans were bombing them nightly for months You know in death could come at any time and headache like they stuck it out and I read that and I was like. Wow what they're asking us to do in comparison is shit on your couch. It's not that hard you know. I mean it's Debbie. I don't mean to make light. Economic challenges some people are going to face but in terms of the the dangers. You know we just need to be smart and vigilant. Oh you asked before about how people were behaving at the time and it was interesting reading newspapers where I mean Their work aces of after things got banned. That like I think it was a pool hall in Rutland that got caught being open And and the mayor saying you know I'm You know I'm GonNa come down hard anyways breaking a new bans on public gathering And and and and again I. I don't I don't know if there was a a sense during the Spanish flu epidemic of did courthouses shutdown back. Then report had to shut itself down and and also A lot of companies had problems because they were experiencing some of them had a fifty percent sick rate I mean fortunately most people survive. But it's you know knock them you know Knocked out of business for a little while and there were some rural exchanges. That had to shut down because the switchboard operator spill. So you know things got quiet wasn't really You weren't able to connect it just enough. This is all right around the time that our our major dairy co ops were just being formed right. I mean a cabinet formed. I think in In one thousand nine hundred. Nineteen just had it centennial and Saint almost co OP. Same Way. Yeah I mean it. Yeah and and something interesting about that is I mean. Do you think about you know after after the flu past life you know went on. I mean it's You know they're still memories and families and such but You know it's it was a huge deal while it was happening and then actually two weeks after Vermont got the equivalent of the all clear and they were The State Board of Health lifted the ban. And pull the gatherings World War One end and people you know except for personal families people sort of forgot about this big episode. Yeah I I wonder It's GONNA be fascinating. I think to see sort of what the memories are going to be. Tanner Twenty one hundred years from now about this episode. We're going through right now. I mean it'll be it'll be fascinating to see kind of how what any any major Lie Lasting impacts will happen on on our on our economy on our social systems etc etc and but that that's what the future bark Bushnell's will be galvanizing about so far enough in the rear view mirror perspective on it that that's that is that is important stuff and Do you have any sense of other research or whatever any other? Any other research underway Looking at other instances of of pandemics affecting Vermont or was that was that really the big one that one. It's the big one when there was something named Vermont. I mean I think there was probably a much worse. epidemic You know back in the sixteen. Hundreds when Europeans first came to the area There's some estimates that Something like ninety percent of the native native American population in New England were wiped out by mysterious diseases. So that I mean that's just you know staggering. That's just you know audio magnitude more than what we're talking about but there's no written record of it you know it's but it is part of the reason that European stop that you know this has been a god given land because of the play came you know came came in and wiped out that people. They've been living here so I mean that's not really my field. That's more archaeology to talk about but From what what I've read about that it's Pretty Nice for sure for sure. Well I I I I I once again. I very much appreciate you. People like you mark who are able to provide us some of this historical perspective about the About that pandemic of nineteen eighteen nineteen nineteen here in Vermont and let us hope that we all get through this in reasonably good shape and I hope you and yours are stay healthy. I WanNa thank you very much for joining me this morning already. We are fast approaching top of the hour here on the Graham. Show we'RE GONNA. Cbs News some words from our sponsors and back with more of our program in In just a few minutes folks and Stay with us. We're going to be talking with Dan. Richardson about Dell legal planning legal issues. for folks who are thinking about The Corona virus. We'll be back. There's comfort in the familiar but when light presents us with something exciting we just have to embrace it with so many of our neighbors producing such wonderful products. We just have to show and tell the world come in and see for yourself. The old standbys alongside the new changes. Good the one thing that never changes is our commitment to making your visit a great experience the warrants store where funky friendly almost world-famous newsradio. Wd Am now back to the day. Bram show thank you for staying with us into our second hour of the Dave Graham. Show here on. Wbz FM and am are call in number two four four one seven seven seven or one eight seven seven to nine one eight two five five Do believe we are going to be speaking very shortly with one of our. Cbs News National Correspondence to try to get a picture of what is going on out there in the broader world beyond Vermont's borders related of course to the corona virus outbreak in. What's happening nationally? I WANNA talk with Steve Little Bit about the Ohio. Primary that's one of four primary scheduled for today I always decided not to conduct the voting in the Buckeye state Today Pretty fundamental thing when you cancelled election it sounds like just thing that doesn't happen in America but This these are range times folks and So the governor of Ohio. I guess in the senior health official health officer for the State of Ohio. Last night there declared no election today no primary election today. I believe they're putting it off for a for a couple of months Maybe till June I expect they will want to eventually have a gift for you. Folks a chance to weigh in who their preferred presidential candidates are but as of today Not happening thing so That is a fascinating development. There Now we also are GONNA be I wanted to mention Speaking a little bit later this hour with Dan Richardson. He is An attorney based in my failure frequent guest on Dave Graham show. We like to bring Dan in to provide some perspective on legal issues in the state of Vermont. We had him on last week to talk about. What the Impact might be on our judiciary system in the state of the corona virus outbreak I don't think anybody new back then. exactly how severe this would be and how people would respond to it. but Sure enough. The court system is Is greatly reduced in terms of his? Its activities This Week Emergency hearings only and That is GONNA be setting some calendars skew. Shall we say? I'm sure in the coming weeks months for the judicial system. Today Dan Rea. It makes a return again engagement here. We're going to be speaking with him. I I think mainly about How to think about The possibility that folks might want him Look at Drawing up a will Last will and testament what happens with your property and your funds and etc on the in the event of your death and How does all that unfold? Once you are no longer around to Call the shots of what happens with your with your stuff and So we're going to be speaking with Dan about that Again I I don't I don't WanNa be overly morbid here or anything. But this is the time when when I think it's safe to say most of the public health officials are warning us that that death rates are going to go up in the United States. Basically means more people are need to be thinking about their own demise We all eventually meet that somehow or some way and This may prompt Getting things done that people might. What have been doing thinking about anyway. Even a absentee all of this all his worry about the corona virus outbreak. You believe we. Now have a connection with Steve Dorsey. Cbs News and is Is Steve There? Hello? Good Morning Steve. How are you healthy or nothing? Yeah well I'm I'm glad to hear you healthy at goes here to and and Tell me a little bit about What is going on out there? In the broader world. The Ohio primaries cancelled Are Is that. Is there a formal date? Now for rescheduling and add. Or where are we on that? Not Personally Will about main target month to these things? But we're still following the primaries. You do have Florida Literally seizing You know it'll be probably you very different With not a great turnout Considering all the home and the water a are they going to be differences in the APP in the actual operations of polling places. Are People going to be trying to enforce a six foot physical separation between people in line? Or how how? How does this actually pulled off them? Physical basis today. Well you know a lot of Calls form speeds to extend access to mail building to absentee dating And I think that more than the jumps incorrect as anti virus spreading so closely old emotions and then of course it would I gather involve extended extending the deadline. I mean if a lot of states Vermont like this right has extensive early voting these days but the actual election day ours was march third for the primary Is Sort of the deadline. You know in other words you you can't go. Vote March fourth or fifth or whatever as a general matter and The is that GonNa Change in these states which which are trying to grapple with US Corona virus or how. How is that What's the general drift there? Well you know I think the Old Right so I think anything is possible and easy team similar to our daily kimes ended. I think that this new thing for elections visiting affecting campaigns including vote measures rallies have been eliminated league to hurt Bernie Sanders especially because he has thrived on these rallies especially young energy people are only exacerbates campaigns including Sanders and Biden's are holding these teleconference types or sort of rallies not nearly as effective but Kevin Stances Yeah. I mean that's all that's all they got so he got a sort of make. Do I guess but Wanted to ask you about the change in tone. I heard so much. Remarking about change in tone from the president yesterday Is this something that is is Is Likely to stick now. Or or is he Sort of volatile enough that he may go back to Kind of the the less serious approach that he had been dated earlier on as of later today or tomorrow or something. They'll stick I think is settling and I think a lot of what working for the next. Yeah I mean I. Is this really a function of his people gathering around him and saying no? This is really serious. It's not a hoax. And it's and it's not anything to be taken lightly and and Is that kind of what's happened here or is it more a matter it. Just kind of sinking in From to him as a as a matter of his in his own mind. Yeah I think I think that is Is so many concerns are both right now? I think that's GONNA be Something that campaigns and local officials. I'm really GONNA watch them. Yeah well let's keep watching it Steve Dorsey CBS News. Thank you so much for joining me. This morning I really appreciate it. Talk you already. We want to open the phone lines. I think briefly here We may maybe hearing a from Dan. Richardson very shortly on our on our phone here. Dan We'll be checking in with us to talk about Drafting Wills and How how that works what. What people are thinking Let's see We have Chris in Waterbury on the line. Good Morning Chris I good morning. Dave appreciate you taking my call here. Sure listen I got a question for you. Maybe you can help me out here to your connections there on radio and whatnot. I called the White House this morning. Actually got a hold of a Gal there. That takes comments. I've been kind of watching what's going on with this Stimulus effort or the financial efforts by the the administration down there in DC and. I'm scared to death with the way that they're approaching all this It seems as though that they're just dumping everything into the pot that they possibly can with no real results. In fact I believe that on the other end of this thing. What they've done now is going to probably impact us. More workers are just racking up the national debt and giving out money with with little or no Thought Process Behind Where it's gone and and how it's helping people so Last night at the board meeting I mentioned the possibility of what if the administration could require all lending institute to defer everybody's payments whether it be a mortgage payment of vehicle payment small business payment any of those types of things. Defer them for the next four months put him on the other end that would give everybody the ability to stay at home or a morbidity ability to stay at home and get this thing over with with little impact to the economic system. Because I'm just afraid that racking up the national debt and throwing all this money out there as you know they drop the interest rates zero percent there on Sunday and look what happened to the mean. Stop working just plummeted. Yeah so I didn't know if you through your Avenues might concern is and I asked the Gal there that I was talking to if there was any way I could talk to the president or the vice president. I said I know they're busy. I'm trying to stop this before they do too much damage through that idea out there The town manager and everybody else seemed to think it was a smart idea because nobody loses. I mean the loan. The lending institute still get their money. It's kind of on the other end but yet it gives everybody this ability to The more able to stay at home and and Corentin themselves and stop this thing while they can you know. So that's it for the most part Appreciate you taking my call. And if there's anything you can do on your help on your end to get it to somebody down to. White House. One of the reporters getting gets in front of the president and says how about this idea instead of doing what you're doing because I just heard him this morning. Talk about their alternatives Efforts and scares the hell out of me. Well Chris I I actually I have heard some chatter about this I or seen it online this idea of of basically putting putting regular Payments for things like bank loans on mortgages or or an for rents and so on On hold for a few months Obviously that would be a gigantic relief to an awful lot of people who are GONNA be Either out of work or working very very limited basis in the next Next this next period of time and I believe I'm going to be having as a guest on the program tomorrow. Art Wolff. Who's a friend of Wd V of a terrific economist. Ray thoughtful fellow. I'm going to put the question to him about whether he he would think such a thing. Such an approach might be Might be a workable thing. I mean I I really don't I'm I'm definitely not A. I'm not an economist. I'm not an expert on. I don't know what the impact would be On if we're suddenly decided that That you know we were GonNa take a effectively bank holiday of sorts More or less. Yeah and And you know I'm I'm I'm far from telling you it's a bad idea. I just don't know what the what the ramifications are and. I think it's a darn good question. I do plan on pursuing it tomorrow with a so tune in tomorrow morning. I believe we're going to be having art wolf on as a guest and he's going to be he's GonNa be. I'M GONNA put that question to him. See what he thinks so ball. I'll be listening to all right. Thank you for the call. Appreciate it very much Let's go to bill in Wakefield. Good Morning Bill. Good Morning Actually. I. I'm just off hitchhiking along with Chris there. I'm glad you brought that up. I was in the process. Actually have writing to Senator Leahy about the similar thing and But I I go a step farther with that. You know the the banks were you know pretty much caused what went on in two thousand eight and They came through it smelling like many many roses and they did an awful lot of really bad things. You know that were involved in that that you know did not you know. We're not big news but Their activities you know in foreclosures and so forth were You know we're we won't even go there at this point. I think I think really netting that out is that it's time it's time for them to give back on this and I would go a step further and say rather than defer payment I think what they should be doing is yeah. I mean maybe defer the payment but not be charging interest so if somebody is five years into a mortgage. They can't make their mortgage payments. Now they You know they they. I mean sure. Give them the principal. You know you know Twenty five years down the line but but not the thousands of dollars that those payments are going to you know AD on in accrued interest. Yeah I I I actually think that You know that's a that's a corollary to this overall thrust here I I would expect that a proposal which might say. Let's let's hold off on basically you know Mortgage Payment Holiday Inn red holiday For the coming The coming Four months or whatever People decide is the right length time And then and then at the other end of it you're not going to be suddenly whacked with a with a a catch up interest payments or something That that basically This is This is something that is. A genuine relief in is not And is not a Not GonNa be smacking you later on. So I I do. I get where you're going with that Bill and I appreciate appreciate the thought and once again I. I'm not an expert on this stuff. I'm I'm actually not an expert on a macho. I sort of moderate radio. Show here doing what you do. I try to modern moderate between the various thoughts of callers out there like you and I really appreciate the participation of our. Wd listeners. So thanks for the call Bill. It's already Two four four one seven. Seven seven is the local number. Here in Montpellier I gather that there may be some A banker or two out there in our listening audience this morning who could call up and share with us You know obviously I would guess you took courses on the banking industry when you were in college and university and and understand what the ramifications of such an idea might be. I'd be really curious to hear what folks who Who Work in that industry Might be thinking this morning. They hear this conversation on the radio where folks are calling up and saying essentially Let's take a holiday from from a mortgage payments And and and again. I had rents because I think a lot of times Basically you know one of the big impetus is through collecting rents if your landlord is so that you can pay the mortgage on the building You you won't you buy a place with say four apartments and I gotTa make a big monthly mortgage payment and you do so in large part by collecting rents from your tenants Certainly if those Rents were Massari. If your mortgage payment where we're going to be put on hold for a few months than I think folks would expect that you would be passing that That benefit. Or however you want to describe it onto On down the chain to The folks who are who are normally would be paying you rent from the income. They perhaps get down at the local cafe which is now closed because of order of the governor. So you see how all of this is Really it's not a ripple effect folks as giant waves a coursing across our economy right now and really having an impact on on Individual lives out there and I do I. I do think that we are ready to start. Maybe making some big steps here to try to try to figure out how we. Yeah we bail this ship out because I it seems like it might be in dangerous thinking. I don't know I you know again. I'm going to get that Debbie Downer charge but I I really have have a fear for. What's what's going to look like next week. I don't think anybody had a clue as of You know Tuesday Whatever last Tuesday wars marks the march the third that the Martin? I don't know A week ago nobody had a clue we go and we would be where we are right now and so. I think anybody who has thinks they have a crystal ball and tell us exactly. What next Tuesday's GonNa look like in America is not Not playing with a full deck at this point I don't know the so Two four four one seven seven seven the local number here in Waterbury One eight seven seven to nine one eight two five five and we are hoping that we'll be hearing from identity. Richardson a fairly shortly To check in with us and talk to us a little bit about what you need to be thinking about if you wanted to I saw some Interesting speculation on line this weekend. Where people saying is it time to write my wealth and And how do I do that and do? I actually need to go see a lawyer or can a person do this. is a basic will out there floating around online. We fill in the blanks And can we. Can we use that at Saturday? And and We're hoping to have a little conversation about that Very shortly Hey by the way I want to mention our podcast here on the Dave Graham show. Wd FM and am. A lot of folks are busy between nine eleven. Am At least in the normal course of life. They are when people are worker. GonNa they're going to the dentist or the doctor or whatever and they tell me Boy I wanted to listen to your show this morning because you had an interesting topic on something I've been following and But I missed it because I was in the dentist chair. Or or whatever Well remember you can always go to our WD EV RADIO DOT com. That's the homepage for the For the Radio Vermont Group in an wd. Follow the link from that homepage to the Dave Ramsey. Show and scroll down a bit and you will find a list of our recent programs. I try to describe them a little bit by topic by guest and you figure out That's the one where we had such and such a state official talking about hunting or whatever. The topic was that day. And if that's your topic that you want to hear about that's the one you might WanNa pick I Obviously welcomed listen to your heart's content there The war stories been sponsoring our podcast out for at least a year. I think maybe more than a year. And we're grateful we we I WANNA thank the war in store for for for helping us out with that and also wanted. Just want to mention that I Love the Warren starts a real Vermont Institution and It's just a charming place. If you've never been there to go down there and and check out their terrific Deli sandwiches Their wide range of beverages local for my beers are available. You can't there but they They do have them and And then upstairs is. There's a a really interesting in ECLECTIC clothing and housewares section of that store and So it's classic Old Vermont General Store Down there and we we really We really appreciate the fact that they have been a big supporter of our podcast. All of this time here on the day Graham Show on wd EV FM and am. Hey ELYSSA LISTEN TO A. Let's get a caller on line here. Fred from Newbury's check in Good Morning Fred Lawrence Day. The interesting thing about this. What about the flu of their excoriate flu now is if you go back to the Middle Ages? The plague Destroyed Europe via a third of the population was joke but it led to the alleged the new enlightenment renaissance. You seek to. Kuroda virus could lead us to a new renaissance. Wow you know. I. I don't Know Fred I would've thought heck why not let's I mean maybe we should think about it that way and say Here's our chance to to try to enlighten ourselves. And and they're really examined Some of the some of the socialist inhabits that other things that we do from top to bottom here You know maybe we need to rethink a lot. I mean let. Let's just say climate change for example just as one one thing imagine. Imagine folks said We need to scale back on some of our favorite activities in order to protect the earth against climate change and and And here we are getting along without what a lot of our favorite activities are now for several weeks here and it'll be a lesson to tell us you know you can if you decide I don't know Major League. Sports may be A BJ's maybe we won't fill stadiums anymore and all those all that travelling that occurs when people go to stadiums carbon right just a thought. I mean if Fred I I get I get what you're saying forechecking to go to Bottom of the hour break here on the day grab show. Wd FM and am. Let's go to Let's go to some. Cbs News more sponsors. And we'll see if we can find in Richardson. Get Him to chat with us on the other side. We'll be back in a few minutes folks Lawson's finest classic clothing and cutting edge fashion. Are you sandwiches and grab and go meals toys? A wide selection of Rosa jewelry accessories quarter pound cookies and even more beer. Yankee magazine doesn't call us the best one. Stop shopping in Vermont for nothing. The warrant store where funky friendly in almost world famous Graham show. Wd FM and am. We are back in. We believe we have Dan. Richardson on the line. Now for my attorney former president of the Vermont Bar Association Danny. You with us. I am excellent. Good Morning. Thank you so much for joining me problem. Sorry you can't be in. The studio is usually not normally when you are on our air here. You kindly make a trip over to Waterbury. We're not doing that. Because we are social distancing and all that good stuff in this Age of the corona virus. And but then I wanted to check in with you in particular today because I saw Some online chatter over the weekend relating to Folks asking questions about are we at a time when people are are Getting interested in drafting wills and and And and preparing for What we are all. GonNa face Someday Corona virus or no and that is our own demise is the time when people are maybe reminded that they need to be Eventually thinking about this and figuring out a plan and What what do you What do you recommend here? What do you think people do something here or or am I being overly Morbid or tell me what your thoughts are? Well I think anytime you have this type of crisis or emergency or even just reminder That you know. We are mortal mortal creatures. This kind of topic comes up because it's something we don't like to think about and I think most of us don't reflect on a daily basis. Novus GET UP. And say hey. It's time to get that. Will we haven't done planning for when we die? but I think it's it's good and it's an important thing for people to think about regardless of the circumstances. And you know if this is something that forces people to confront that question That's not a bad thing because wills are important devices that everyone Above a certain age really needs. Would you say that the the ages and what When when I mean if people were going to really be well planned about their life and and you should have a will by year share. I mean you know the the reality is if you don't have a will and and this is part of what you have to think about if you don't have will There's a series of intestate probate laws that govern so And that just basically says that if someone dies without a will everything goes to their. If they don't have a spouse to their kids they don't have kids to their parents and if you think about if you're twenty two years old You're just getting out of college or you know even working for a few years. You probably don't have that many assets. Your parents are probably still alive. You may or may not be married. THE LAWS. GonNa take care of it a wills not GonNa really change a lot When I recommend people to get will is usually when they have something substantial that they wanna make sure is passed along so you know at say at age twenty three you strike it rich on. Dot Com investment. You now have three million You probably want a will to to direct that because you may you may not want it to go to your parents or you may not want it to go to a spouse. You may have charitable gifts that you WanNa make and you can only do that through a will But the big thing for most people Is when they have kids and once you have kids you really need a will Because one of the things that happens in a will often. Is you set up a trust for your kids. So if something happens to you and your spouse or partner or you know the two immediate parents or whoever in your immediate family aren't available your will is the document that you use to create a guardianship for who's going to take care of the kids if something happens to both of you and to put all of your assets and trust for your kids so that when they turn eighteen or when they turn a certain age that you'd you'd denote They will have access to this. This money. Everything you've you've earned up to that point and so you know that's an important thing and that's I I can say for myself personally. That's when I got a will is when our first child was born because at that point prior to that you know we had assets. We had things but wasn't necessarily anything that we needed a special device or document to take care of but after that we wanted to make sure that if something happened to both of us you know we had Our guardians named and laid out. And that's for a lot of people but I think the other thing zinc keep in mind is that you know will become different over time and I often call it. The three ages of of wills is that You will often need a certain type of will when you're young You'll need a different kind. Wants the kids are grown up and have left the house. But you're in you're sort of middle aged and and prime and making so working possibly then there's the final will that really is your estate. Planning will where you're starting to think about the end and starting to think about this. It starts to look less and less like a insurance actuary stable and much more of a potential reality And those are those are different wills of them and they represent different different values. And you know it's often an estate planning attorney. Who can help you through those kinds of things to say you know? What where are you at? What are your priorities? What do you what do you need? What are you trying to protect so if you were in this process of making a decision that excuse me you WanNa will right now Your is that your first. Stop you basically Call the Bar Association. Get give me a list of of estate planning attorneys or what are you. What are you recommend is the first step here? Well certainly contacting an attorney. You have a relationship with to give you. Advice is is always a good staff if you have that establish relationship they may or may not feel comfortable doing a will and and frankly for most people it's not An necessarily a complicated estate planning Process it's a very simple will. I mean I've written wills for a number of clients that are two to three pages and because it's you WanNa keep it simple and you want to keep it straightforward And you want to be clear And so a lot of times you can talk to your attorney that you've used for real estate transactions. And if they don't do it they'll probably know somebody who does And can make a recommendation. But yeah if you if you do find yourself without a connection. The Bar Association is that is that next step is to because they do have a list of those and you know as I say. Writing a will is not. It's not rocket science. It's not a complicated thing. Only if you have complicated things and I can give an example. I had I had a friend who had Inherited from his parents An art collection. That was a real art classes. And it wasn't it wasn't the kids are at work Framed up it was it. Was things that were you know worth worth a million dollars or millions of dollars and you know creating a trust and creating documents That would support that collection because that collection had to stay as a collection keep its value That's where you can get into complications. And that's where you have to be a little bit more thoughtful but for most of us. If we own a house you know part of it is thinking about what we have and what we don't have and what's protected so take your house for example you probably own it if you're if you're married or you know You own it with your spouse and that is a tenant by the entirety which means that if something happens to you the House immediately goes to your spouse. You don't have to go through. Probate court you don't have to do any extra steps. It's automatic okay. And so you know the for that. A number of people that's their big asset and so the fact that that's already taken care of is fine. Of course you then have the question of the last person standing. What do they do with the House And that's that's where state planning attorneys can get involved as far as you know sort of end of life things. And they have enhanced life estate deeds that can help that process But in general You know your big asset. Your House is taken care of. If you have life insurance or any type of policy with a beneficiary that does not get handled by your will that automatically goes to the beneficiary. It's the It's the state the I mean. The estate is limited to the items. Where there isn't clear title You know your car A bank account if you have it alone and you don't have any right of survivorship on it you're close the knickknacks and furniture in your house. Your you know your pans and baking where you know. Those are the things that go into the estate and those are the things you know. They often have sentimental value but they don't have a great deal of Monetary VALUE DO. They ended up getting listed anywhere. I mean in terms of You know I've I mean if I have a couple of old musical instruments around the House that I think You know my kids aren't gonNA platies. Maybe I should donate them to the high school band programmers. I probably should do that while I'm living but I mean I I Just wonder Did he get that detailed? Typically you're not not not in the will what happens after the will is activated by the court that the executor. That's their first. Job is to do an inventory of the estate and figure out what's there because you know up until then you don't. WanNa make a list because if you do have those instruments and somebody says hey. The marching band would really like that local high school and you donate it to him. It can create confusion if you have in your will For a number of reasons one is everybody's GonNa go looking for these instruments because they may not realize you have given them away and not waste a lot of people time To if you're if you're sort of creating these lists where you know Peter get so much Paul get so much. Jane get so much And it seems to be equal and Lo and behold. You know. Half of Paul's list was given away before you died That can create chaos and Paul can say wait a minute. We need to Redo these lists because these were intended to be equal and you know through either mistake or you know not thinking I've gotten short changed and you know whether or not that argument is accepted can be a lot of blood spilled or a. Lotta ink spilled on the on the page before that's done and a lot of lawyers involved before that's done and so the way that gets avoided again is what it's generally what. I tell people to do if they're GONNA if they're not going to do the normal. You know everything to my spouse everything to my kids or if you have multiple kids you do what you do it in percentages you know half to my after my son have to my daughter You know or and make provision so that if there's another child you know especially if you're young. You know you WANNA keep that door open because I can tell you that my will. My son isn't mentioned because he wasn't born yet I haven't updated it because I made provision that any future offspring would get their equal shares so But I mean those kind of things you wanNA keep that sort of loose and very simple and very general you know in part of it too. Is You have to trust your family to sort of work. Some of these things out and you know the other thing is that this this again is sort of those those three ages if you're in the third age and you're thinking of creating this will you know part of it too. I always recommend to people get rid of the stuff. Start giving it away. The how people enjoy these. If you have a you know a chest that you think your nephew would enjoy. Then give it to them and then see if he enjoys it and see you know and enjoy that because if you'd wait until afterwards you're not gonNA get any joy out of it Because you'll be gone but these you know Wills are really important. I think sort of circling around back to your initial point is that you know what they do is they give the probate court clear direction when you can no longer speak and so for a lot of people you know they do have different desires for what happens to their Their things after they're gone for very particular reasons you know if they have a companion who they didn't marry but has been there lifelong companion They WanNa make sure that that person is taken care of. The only way you can do that is through a will You know if you have a request that you WANNA make to charitable institution. You can only do that through a will You know if you WANNA give if if for example you have two kids and your son marries a millionaire and your daughter. Mary's a popper You may want to give more of your estate to your daughter because she needs it And your son doesn't the only way you can do that is through well So those kind of those kind of choices that you WanNa make or that you want to do you need. You need a will to direct it. That that is interesting Let me ask you too about You know I when I was reading online this weekend Just a couple of a random posts from people. I started got the impression that there were some folks out there and this is understandable. It this can be you know. Legal services are can be expensive and People may say. Is there any way I could do? A you know a do it yourself. Well or There's this thing I see advertised. I have no idea really how good it is or anything. But it's called legalzoom That seems to advertise this idea that you can go online. And I guess get the right forms and fill might yourself or something what people make of all that. Well I you know I do it. Yourself Wills I I think you take that risk into your own. Hands Wills are not expensive You know I I and I'm baby yourself in the foot by saying this but I do. I do wills you know I'll I'll charge one hundred fifty to do a will or would three hundred dollar you know spousal package with have reciprocal wills and the whole nine yards And that includes some conversation You know I mean that's not an expensive investment for if you think about the value of what you're passing on and how you WanNa make sure that it's passed on correctly You know legalzoom's gotten better and better over the years But wills are one of those documents where the the fine points matter. And if you don't do it right it can. It can blow up and you know a lot of times that may or may not matter But it's a risk and it's one of those things where you know just for example there's a legal requirement that There be two witnesses to a will. And you know if you don't have those two witnesses listed the wills not valid The other issue I often find is people will do a will. And then they'll lose the original More they'll do a series of them and it's unclear which is the final version. You know having it done in a lawyer's office lawyer then can advise you can either keep an original and or send it to probate court to be filed You know that's often a really good Service because it makes again that makes things easier it makes things clearer and wills are really funny about those those nuances and details because the person who wrote the will is never there to say. This is what I wanted and so probably courts get very technical on those kind of thing bright. Bright sure And you know that is kind of an obvious statement but it is something to keep in mind that The idea of you know Doing a job in thinking to myself. Well not quite ready to go back fix later. wills are not really like that folks unless you you know you've already figured out you're gonNA come back as a ghost or something Let's see here Dadis online from Casper. Good morning dotty. Hey yes I'm sure I was talking with your gal fellow and I couldn't hear what you were talking about. I wanted to know whether I could write a hand. Written will right now and sign it and date it in my room and have it illegal. I think we You cover that I can answer that. The new competitive will The answer is no in Vermont. A lot of western states recognize those kind of wills And there's been cases out west where someone carves a will until like a piece of wood But it's not not out east. We don't recognize those kind of wills. There are exceptions such as military Or a particular type of situations but generally no you can't you can't just hand write something. Have it recognized as legal document? And how would I leave the lines at them? Usually go to an attorney The legal niceties. I mean you could when I say have it. A handwritten will doesn't work. You can have a handwritten will that works as long as it meets all of the requirements of a will That that are set out in statute entitled Fourteen You know the the right number. Witnesses signature You know the clear. Bequest of gifts right You know the the language that's required to this is the last will and testament you can do that. But as I was saying before I mean that's that's something. You really need a lawyer to make sure that you've crossed all your T.'s. And dotted all your. I's okay fine. Thank you very much for the call. Appreciate that and I mean. I think that that was where I was sort of going a few minutes ago. Dan when I was asking you about kind of this. Do It yourself. The there's there's a real There's a real duty yourself spirit in. Vermont. I'm sure you know I mean shade tree mechanics and and Every everybody wants to figure out a way a lot of people WANNA figure out a way to even if it's saving fifty bucks or something. They think they've they've had a really good day you know and and and And that's the kind of spirit I was. I was asking about that and it sounds like that's a little bit about you know. Maybe we're we'RE WE'RE DOT. He's going to and but but you're saying not really advisable it's more a matter of. I don't want to call it fantasy but it's kind of It just sort of you know. Maybe sort of one of those. Yeah it'd be nice but it's not it's not a real world. Is that a fair way to look at it. That's a that's a fair way. What's interesting is that you know. There's this falls into the similar category Of A folk law that some some people believe about common law spouses. That you know they they think you. Can you can right away if you handwrite it. You know you're you're okay because it's clear in your handwriting and they think if you live with someone long enough you can have a common law spouse and that's not true in Vermont on either count. It is true in other states especially the western states. And what's interesting is the reason. Why is that you know? When people were settling the west the distance between them and a lawyer or notary or some official could be you know a day's journey or more and so these western states did allow sort of do it yourself Legal documents or or you know the sort of common law marriages but back east. We've we've never allowed that as as a As an acceptable legal practice. So but it's funny because of course that's seeped into the common culture so everybody thinks of these sort of handwritten wills or these common marriages and says I can do this here when you really can't I think some of that's Hollywood. You see scenes in movies where people do that. Kind of stuff you know they. They have common law marriages or they. They They do an awful lot of a lot of stuff that you know Would maybe normally happen in a You know somebody drops a couple coal gold coins in the old western and they suddenly owned the ranch or something you know exactly and never mind the closing and the mortgage insurance and all that stuff you wouldn't stake in the ground and they now have claim yeah Let's see. Let's go to Jim in Chelsea. Good Morning Jim for taking my call. I'll make it quick. I know time is short I've revised my will. I'm leaving everything. I owned completely thoroughly to the wounded warrior program and it was suggested to me that I did not need to file a twenty dollar probate. Can you tell me if that's true and I'll hang up and listen. Thank you then. Sure I presume by a twenty dollar probate you mean filing the will with the probate court And you know that that's a service that all the probate courts Offer which is you. Can you can file your will with the probate court. So they have a copy of the original you know. I didn't think at first when I first started practicing. That was necessary. You know I thought well either. My client awry will keep a copy but as time has gone on. I think it's it's actually not a bad service because the will is going to have to go to the probate court anyway and if you can file an original with the probate court it just makes it easier on everyone That's going to have to deal with this and thinking about a will and keeping it simple is impart it. It really doesn't matter to you because every every will that a person makes the person writing it is never going to have to deal with it. They they write it and they put out into space. And then when it's activated. They're no longer on the scene So part of the thoughtfulness I think goes into a will is trying to make it easy for the beneficiaries and for the executor To make sure that they don't have to scramble to find a copy of the will. It's a small thing you know is it. Is it absolutely necessary? No but it's it's something that I think if you do it just makes that step easier but again it's it's also important then if you do that to let everyone know hey the wills on file with the probate court so that people aren't guessing or scrambling or trying to find an original when it sitting safe and snug in the probate court vault. I just want to point out today and I told you a few minutes ago somebody might WanNa try to save fifty bucks. It's a twenty dollar apparently Probate filing fee. So you know Vermont Are Frugal. Shall we say? Let's let's put it that way. Hey this has been a fascinating conversation We could go on but I We are at the top of the hour. I WanNa thank you very much Dan. Richardson for joining me. This morning. Talk a little bit about wills and I thank you so much. My pleasure already. WE'RE GONNA go They mentioned to Top of the hour Got Some news coming up from CBS. I'M GONNA quit for the day and be back tomorrow morning with another addition of our program. Stay to offer. Bill Sayer. Common Sense Radio Stay healthy everybody out there and Just Do WHAT THEY ADVISE. And we'll all get through this hanging there. I thought y'all.

Vermont Dave Graham United States Dan influenza Debbie Downer Waterbury Cbs News Dave Dan Richardson president Marc Busch Williamstown Lee Anthony FAUCI Saint Patrick America Chris
Alice Williams - What Is A Bad Yogi?

The Flow Artists Podcast

1:02:14 hr | 9 months ago

Alice Williams - What Is A Bad Yogi?

"Hello my name is Ron. And this is the flow oddest podcast every episode, my co host Joe Stewart. I speak with inspiring movers, thinkers and teachers about how they find me a flow and much much more hope. You're doing okay. These are certainly interesting times last episode, talking about reopening the studio and now Melbourne is back and lockdown the six weeks. I think we're a little bit bitter, prepared with s Judea and website this time around, so it shouldn't be too bad transitioning into online classes. I can't help but feel a little bit sad about it. It was wonderful reconnecting with that community and Joan I discovered that we both really Miss Teaching Aerial Yoga love to hear your thoughts. So how was the brief foray into teaching in person for you? And how do you feel about the current lockdown? You can reach out to us via facebook or on our website at podcast dot artists dot com. We would love to hear from you. Or right so this episode pages interview with Alice Williams, Alice Yoga teacher writer envy of the Book Bad Yogi. It's a fun and hilarious rate where she talks about her experiences working on a very popular Australian sub off. Her Yoga. Teacher training at ca in malvern and more seriously how she dealt with an eating disorder as I mentioned. It is a great rate and John I both recognize a few of the characters in the book so I. Recommend Checking it out. Al Conversation with Alex was recorded way before this whole covert nineteen experience, so if it does sound a little bit out of date with current events I, do apologize, but it's a great conversation so I. Have a listen. This episode was brought to you by. Yoga Australia registering teaches training courses to ensure that everyone in Australia has access to quality yoga, teachers or get into our conversation with Alice Williams. All Right? We Ready Oh. Thank you so much for meeting with us. Today Alison Great to have you here pass, we could start with you just telling us a little bit about your background and where you grew up in that show well, I'm very much. Melbourne, Girl Athletes T. Oh, my life and I actually grew up in north. Get so north side. And when I was quite young, we moved to Williamstown. Which is western suburbs of Melbourne, and it was a very what kind of areas that that was a bit of a shock to the system, very. I guess conservative areas will check Kinda wasn't east, too. So that was an interesting transition, and that's where I began doing your and then I went to uni in like most Melbourne. Unique. Students dropped out pretty quickly. I ended up going to an monastry for a little while in Nepal, and that's where I kind of really got on the path. I guess yeah. And sorry. Did. You always know that you wanted to rush. That's a funny question. I was actually thinking about that the other day. Because people talk about those moments. We suddenly realize what you WANNA do. And I think I had one pretty young probably. But I think maybe stealing primary school would just started high school. And I was reading something and I just had these. It's not like a relaxation. It's just like knowledge. and I knew I was going to be a writer, and then my next thought was off shit. Because I thought rotting. It's going to be so hot so boring. I have to sit here and write these words, but for some reason I just knew what was going to be and then I spent ten years trying not to be. And it was funny because. After I got back from Nepal I studied filmmaking, and it was when I was. We all directed Aaron films and things like that and I really loved the writing thought scriptwriting the character development. And it was when I was directing sane, and I was screaming at everyone, because we filming under high school, which used to be a tepe, everyone was getting really seek, and having vomit between takes, and the lighting was making it. And I just I was losing it and I and I realized that I had no replaced leading anyone. You like this is my. Locked up in a room with no one around me was an every now and again. My partner says to be not really teamwork. And I am like through email. Directly and then I became A. You're contagious so there you go. and. Is Really Because it is a very active. But at the same time you. Know One. Can you trust me so I find that fun? I'm just kidding. That's a great benefit of. Actually WanNA interestingly and I wonder if this is a really common thing with yoga teaching, one of the hottest things I found about teaching when I started with the lack of feedback from students, so in a conversation or something like that, and you look at those verbal cues that people are understanding and. When I was teaching. You get that angry face if they're in a pie. That's really hot or they just really internal an when I'm in classes. I'm not really giving the teaching much because I mean my own kind of experience. But it took me a while to not take it personally that there isn't that feedback in there, otherwise gauging, if people with you or not, so yes, that was A. That was a big lesson. I had to do when I started teaching. It is interesting, isn't it? I'm sorry I'm just GonNa? Jump on son why you can teach a class net being you can think that went really badly in someone who tunes I almost that was amazing. I remember I just given blood. Actually it's in the book and I. Thought I Have Brad Blood Precious when I give blood, I get quite lightheaded. And I turned up to teach lunchtime office class and I just saw i. have no idea going to get through these so I? Just did my praying guidance. You kind of thing. And at the end of the class someone came, and that was the best class you've ever told and I thought all I need to dry myself. And I'll be fine. I feel. Quite often that happens. It's like. I didn't know it takes you out of your everyday mind or something, so he's a more transcended experience, teaching and light. Sometimes, that's when the magic really happens, and isn't that beautiful because I remember one of my classes on my teaches, said Cliff Fleming. Who you would have had yet, she said. The doesn't just work for the students. The Yoga works for you as a teacher as well and that was a really nice way of thinking i. it's not just me being great teaching the students it's actually. Channeling something that's been around for hundreds of years and I'm part of that as well. And you mentioned you actually. You actually started yoga back in Williamstown. How did that come about Oh? Well, let's see. How should I put it when I started when I was about seventeen? So. I grew up in the nineties GRUNGE era when? There wasn't much study going on. There's a lot of pot smacking. And I was doing a lot of that. And I was starting to have panic attacks, and not knowing that were panic attacks, and there was a local yoga studio and I think I'd hit. Oh, it's good for that kind of thing and yoga really wasn't as much of a thing at all as it was as it is now. This was twenty years ago and so I kind of totaled along and. My tape just said to me. She summed she looked at me and she just said you should really stop doing drugs. An auditor drugs and she just looked at me and city. It's not good for you. And she was right, I have a kind of Fatah very highly strung kind of energy in drugs. Just kind of send me off. And so. I guess that kind of replaced pot with a little bit, but it didn't really take off me until I. Did my first eyeing a yoga class? And it was the most hideous experience ever I remember, 'cause you know I. can get to the really big into adjustments, and they put me into trick enough in and I'd never done a trick enough met before. And it was like I can't describe it with like. Pain shooting through my buddy, but not bad pain like good pain and And it was, there was something really addictive about that intensity a yoga and I was in my early twenties thin. Sorry, I think when you're young. That intensity is quite attractive now I don't want it. Yes so that that led me eventually to want to become a tate and at the time. They really wasn't the kind of explosion of teacher training programs. There are now and. I thought I had to be an younger teacher because that's kind of what I did. And so I look I went to a few kind of information sessions about the training and nobody's smile and everyone was really kind of. This was my feeling at the time. I'm sure it made he wasn't like that, but it felt like everyone was really severe years and kind of. Calm and I was not carbon. I was not the image of what I saw. Those teachers baying until I lifted. I thought this isn't I can't do these, and I left it. Sort of a experience vying. To cast any scorn upon anger fable bit. Yes, it is quite precise. Very serious. But we love you if you do I. Please smile people. Sorry? What led to you making the self-described ultimate? Why go? And signing up to become a yoga teacher. What sock would you back ten years later? I know his break. Now, But I wonder if that is what leads a lot of people. Particularly if it's a career, change it, something's not going right, and you think. And I had just gotten a job in TV which is a job that I've been trying for years and years at started off doing feature film writing, and that didn't really go anywhere, and so the next best thing I thought was TV and the culture of. TV Show I found to be absolutely toxic and it was. I don't know I mean I'm sure there's actually a common feeling that you get to where you want in your career where he thought you wanted to be and it's. Just. Hernandez and you don't feel like you've got to Iraq because you think. How can I let? How can I let myself down I've worked so hard for these hacking I bow at, and then I thought Oh my God. They must be something wrong with me. And it got so bad. I was still sabotaging. That's when I really noticed aiding baggies. Teacher Training and dealing with eating disorder, and that's when I really noticed those food behaviors really adding up. And it was just getting like my body was making it harder and harder for me to deny that things weren't going wrong and I remember one night I, just lying in bed, and I just wanted to die. It was one of those things. I don't really want to go through the pain of doing it, but I just WanNa, not exist anymore, and it was when I was I think it was one of those moments when you. Finally crack and you think I've got nothing. Louise, what else to say, come on, if God. If there's anything, can you tell me now? What did he is supposed to be doing? Because he's isn't working? And that's when I found way key to say it verbally, but that's when I kinda felt these sensing myself or voice, or whatever it was just saying. If. You want something to change. You've got to be willing to give up everything and I thought. Yeah, why not? And I sort of heard that we spring before bed. I I had so many attachments to the career. These sort of that I wasn't willing to give those things up and sorry very quickly I mean it wasn't immediate, but I started researching different areas to go into and. A happened upon the yoga teacher training course when I was looking for cheap massages. And I tried a few different training through tots, which I talk about one of them with beaker mirror, which didn't go well, and then he'd upon the training that I did which I guess what you would classically was able to not aligned with one particular. Contemporary Classical Yoga Yeah. So the only teaches have different styles, but they're teaching the fundamentals of Meditation Asset, but not this is the Tangale the anger way, which was great, because you get to play around and and find your own way of teaching, and then the thing about your girl I realize very quickly. He do it quite intensely. It clears away all the veils that between you, and what's kind of working or not working? which was really? Didn't I didn't want to do that. I I thought being yoga teacher. I think Miami. Java was become spiritual. Be Teacher. I'll never have to suffer again because they'll be happy all the time. And instead it just actually took me deeper into what wasn't working. Which I now realize was essential, and what was meant to happen, and because I had yoga. It was kind of container for that, so even things were coming up. I had practices to deal with, and that's when I realized I had an eating disorder and had to go and deal with that, and it was a wonderful time to realize something like that because I was in this two year teacher training course. And everything I was going through really held within that training, which was just curricula I think. And I think it's one of those things that women often learning about these yoga practices. It's almost in this abstract way of like Oh these are the tools to help you navigate the storms of life. And if you just come on your Matt, you're like Oh Yep, but when you're actually in the midst of one of those really intense time, it's like Oh. Yeah, that's what these practices of for absolutely, and and I still do practice your your thing. If I just practice enough, I'll never have to stop. And? Of course, it's not true and I remember two things one the information. It was a two year training course and they said look the first year is really just about you applying these practices to yourself. It's about you understanding what it means in your own life the second years when we teach you to teach other people, you cannot teach until you've done that work on yourself. As attractive is, it would be too, and the other thing is I. Remember that first year philosophies quite intense slave latchkey. It's one hell of a teacher in that department and it was great. It was really far, but it's very heavy as well and I remember Hedda. Lay's wife was my mentor and I was saying. My Dad was seek using hospital and I. Thank God. Get it on my head around this and that and she said Oh screw it. He can see seat with your dad. He's dying and try and change his experience and really be present in your own experience. That's kind of yoga philosophy, and it really shifted my idea to being something that you studied and achieved to something that you took a little bit off and really started to understand your own life and lay actually. Quickly again he was, he was fantastic. In every time, we'd have a session on the sutras. He say not meant to read the sutures like book obviously meant to take one or two at a time, and really work with the in your life and life will show you what the that suit remains and then move onto the next. You might work with two a year and that's that's fantastic. Interesting I, see. Sort of a slide night, but I went to a training with Leslie. Kevin off. And he and yeah, it was amazing and he was talking about. Christian. Macharia, going through the sutras with. Jessica CIA, and through the course of the alive, actually went through. All of the Sutras. Entitled like three or four times, and and each time they went into a little bit more in depth, so I've night complaints I I thought that was completely right, did with a shower, the hot of yogurt with that beautiful explanation of the situation so accessible and sorry. If anyone was going to teach you, that would be. And just to the in depth exploration, and H I'm going. Kirsch Macharia of old Papal Hazel. I still need full. Go at this. Around five as well absolutely, and so I guess that leads us to some of these interesting parallels that you write about in your book between going through a twelve step program and Yoga teacher training at the same time. I mean that was free and intents. Let me tell you like I. I wasn't working much in the first year, so that was actually pretty grew because I could. Kind of dive in I didn't have kids I. Don't know how I would die if I had kids when you've got to pretend that you got together. And so I could really let myself kind of explore Bari and the parallel. It was interesting I found a lot of parallels and. Probably one of the main ones is that gets worse before it gets better and birth twelfth step, and Yoga really about systematically stripping back beliefs vials all that kind of stuff, which is Hodhod work? Which is why I always laugh at the contemporary imagery of Yoga, which is always about serenity in for me. Your get eventually about thirty, but I it's about. Hideous anger, blood and threat that kind of stuff and the storms and fires, but both your garden twelve ship equally about it's not meant to be like these self flagellating kind of masochistic stepping back, so they both really have these sensitive I mean easy. Does it use one of the twelfth step slogans? The sensitive of not kind of torturing yourself a little bit at a time. And one of my favorite quotes, because I was really diving in heavily, and it was, it was sorry hot, and also his dad within hospital, I was already in that really Roy head space, and in a way that was kind of good, because you can kind of get some air and really fast forward. But it can be too much sometimes and there. There's a quite in the Donna fiery book which I loved which is. Something like yoga practice can be a little bit like waiting a hillside. If you wait too much, you realize that the way to actually stabilizing the hill, and then it can actually be stabilizing, and that taught me to go a bit more gently and you need to have fun. And younger until stepping on anti-fun, but I became quite pies about it. And I think the main paralleled IC- between them I mean one the diocese dramatic. I do you do this? Yoga can be very self God 'cause clauses on. But but the twelve step, he's definitely one step at a time. You have a sponsor, but for me the Qe, the fundamental thing with I mix, is it? They're both about getting you to have a relationship with. A power greater than yourself and twelve step calls it a power greater than yourself. Oh Gosh, Yoga. There's like seven hundred words. Consciousness Brahma and All those things. Or done was the Nemo's where I came to me, which is now what he said again? It's like that registered doing fine yeah. I I had she was a real job for me to work out what that was to me and one. It was essential to recovery. Because the second step is that you have to kind of get there. But? I was brought up in atheist. So that was a real prices for me and I talk about it in bad Uruguay had the nicest find God essentially an quite logical, so it was quite pros cons. Oh, that stung. And sorry. If it's something you can put into words. Like what conclusion did you get too little of this swell changes every day for us I think. I'll try and keep it really simple. I did get caught up in a lot of the terminology. What do I call it now? I call it God just because it's simple and other people, but I know a lot of people have reaction to that 'cause. I have a church. He idea of and you gotta call it something, but really it's just. Might you know with him, but I really am sorry. Sorry Lee Latchkey fuel, listening to this and I'm getting these wrong, but I was reading up on on Yoga Philosophy. I lacked that idea that I know I'm going to get is wrong, so it's teaches I'm sorry, but it felt like the Atman is that the soul and the Brahmins like the universal consciousness something sorry that there is a universal God or universal conscious and on a little bit of that. And so I can trust my inner wisdom, and if I file that fails MAC and trust my Atta waste him and I know that I look I could talk all day about what it means, but I think ultimately it's just really about finding that sense of truth within yourself and nine that there's like a big truth that day that you can connect you and you feel lost, and however you experience that it's more of an experience than a language. And I. For better or worse, I, I tend to experience that in the park when I go walking in the trees, and all that sort of thing particularly morning, and with this is my favorite story about finding got his. Andrew WHO's high in the book. Hey is a tender teacher and he said look we all. The tantrums about six and all these kind of stuff, but really it's about seeing the divine all, and he can save the divining own. I mean that's garage and I thought Oh. That's an idea. Yeah! I invited all. Spiritual. And I remember P, morningside it was really early morning, and I was walking through the gardens, and this beautiful avenue of trees, where they kind of canopy, and these these Fanton at the end and I was walking through the canopy of trees I could see like the light coming through the fans, and it was like God was speaking to me. Like I really got these, and then when I got closer the fountain, my is down and I saw these and holding his paintings and looking at me, but not like in a sexy way like. Sad Way. Not that there sex. And he was just like he had these I remember they had these like dirty gray treks. And there's just so sad or and I mean at first my first instinct was shock, but very quickly I realized it's daylight. This job is I realized I wasn't in any danger. And then I just suddenly. Andrews, where it's popular, my I'd. Like I mean these divine moment, and if I can see God in the fountain. He's this man God his scholley in that man, just as much as in these trays and. That you're being leaving the philosophy. If, you're ever asked, do you? Are you really walking the walk? Can you see the divine in a man flashing you in dirty? I stood there in my face. I must have been having these really weird smile. He Looks Star Frieden. Dole is Newport if he's passing away. that. What a cosmic anti-drug! Six. And I looked at running away and I just I just. Prayed for my oh, what? What is that thing to want to do that and I don't think it was the reaction. But whenever I feel like on the with possessing the world, or I hate that person I remember that moment, and it's like man he can see divining. He can surely see in yourself, Anita other people. What a great lesson! There is something divine in this sort of sadness. The the timing, right? It's a waste into an you think you've got it. And then the invisible comments say if you think you've got it. How about this? Hurts like. The Penny capes dropping. But you think you figured it out. You're like. Oh, there's a whole nother layer here that I be. Having said that I think I'm done with flashes. Look, that calls me. Anymore. Just in case, anyone listening with thinking of. How? Does in teaches who'd would get their students intimidation and welcome on the back with a cane something. I don't know much bets in. The campaign is people falling asleep? Aw I thought it was about like visit. Crazy wisdom tradition has well I think teaches just do shop shock as Jewish people out of the yeah everyday Milan imagining. That's like I really good excuse for like. Six to teachers, kind of thing issues like trying to shock you out of your own. Yeah sure, yeah, yes, kind of debate poet Era! Sorry you've already mentioned a few of the teachers on the teacher training at I definitely recognized some familiar characters in the book, because I did the same coast and you change. The name changed a few little details. Did you have any internal dilemmas about how much to leave, and how much to change my God absolutely lately, and I would say these any is particularly memoir rod is it's a it's A. It's the number one thing I think he's he's. How do you write about real people? And I thought to myself a lot. And I think in the end. You just have to go for it. You just have to really go watson all and then it. It's much easier to edit once. You've written deputies to feel like you've got chains around your hands while you're trying to right. And so I just went for it, and then afterwards I changed the names, and I looked at times, when I'd been a little bit snarky and I. You really have to ask what the point of the stories is it in service to the story that making a point about me I'm just having a go at them. And often my observations about the teachers I tried to to make it that it was really about me and my hit space that was and so when I saw Andrew I, just really reacted against him, because he was so free and crazy, and and I wasn't and so. That was a judgment I had on human so as riding. Sort of that description of him in that way, but it was absolutely about me. So I changed the name a couple of the teachers. I gave it to them to just sort of say this is what's coming. Did you give it to Andrew I? Often him and he said and he ended up. I think being really happy with it, so that's good and I think people took it in the spirit that it was intended, but I definitely think if you are writing. Don't get ahead of yourself thinking about. How's it going to be received? Received you just have to think about that later? Yeah, I. Know I not ally beyond the taste is was also you rights really personal stuff about your family? Well Ceylon imagine that would have been like really hard to speak your truth and get all of this animals line, important part of the story jar I just went through months of insomnia before it came out just before publication, and it was sorry Hod to snatch the manuscript back and just delete everything. Soy often. It's my parents to rage before publication, and they said no, which was really great of them. And they basically said you know it's your story. It's I think there was an understanding that it's it's my perspective is not like the truth. Trees that there is no one trees and that's why I had that. At the start of Baggies, the court from David Sedaris, which is memoirs, Las Place. You're looking for trees because it's easy. Sorry, my experience. And it was interesting because I mean it was terrifying, but which. One of the things that people said about it is all ye really went there and revolt. And! And I I. It was really hard to write, and I was thinking have to have that reason for writing it and it was. If you can help someone else and I think that you have to be honest. That does that universal thing in the personal, and if you strip the detail and nuance out of your own story, it becomes meaningless. And I was talking to my editor about it because there's a lot of references to my grandfather who was painter and the legacy that he had on the family. and. She said all look and I said look. I take it out. Is it not relevant and she said look? I think it's a really fundamental thing that. Strong, patriarchal figure that influences the whole family and can that dysfunction can kind of travel. And, so I kind of kept things in which we paint which I thought were kind of archetypal. And there were definitely scenes which I combined. Aw, wising which I might disguise character or there was. There was a lot of things that didn't get in the book because they were just really fun and I thought. It's not necessary to put that in it. But. I'M NOT GONNA lie eighty excruciating writing a memoir about when families concerned because. We live with them. Yeah, and you're writing your innermost thoughts a-. Doubt them the things that you wouldn't say. Get Yeah, and again I tried to make it about me and hit space in, and it's funny, because a friend of mine is an older guy and he's got an adult daughter, and he said all she's writing his memoir and she's like. Saying how are we are like? It's really history than she's GonNa try and publish it and tell everyone how mainly we were and things. And I thought yeah. I really get that because when I started to write it with like yeah, I'm I'm great and everyone. Else's bad new. But then fortunately I I do think at some cosmic intervention that really shifted and I and I was thinking about what is the value of telling a story? It's not to drop people in it. Everyone's got their own path and I talk about that. In the book in the desert appeared one of the steps in twelve step, he's about taking an inventory of you. Resentments and things like that and a lot of stuff came up about my family then and my friend and I'm waffling so really. Give me a REP IF This is really interesting and I've actually notices quite commenting yoga people who really dive into Yoga as well. That, you can get a lot of resentment about things about upbringing in the way that you to consent beliefs and things like that. And I was talking to my friend Kate who is in the book who went through Rehab for heroin addiction and one of the things that they did and Rehab was they taught people about family dynamics in how certain dynamics can Lehto addiction for example. And she said we were all serve resentful. Would they watch documentary about it? And everyone was sorry wiped after the duck documentary hating their families had to bring in councillors. To. Say to everyone. Look your family out bad people. Everyone's doing the best that they can and that that that is can do. And when I had children a couple of years ago, it was shocking how much I understood about my own parents because I realize he was so limited by. Your own capacity to love to forgive and we're all pretty limited in in certain ways. Of course we're GONNA to pass onto our children, and I'm waiting for the reckoning, which my son's three and I'm already feeling like I'm having the reckoning. Forgiveness you can't you can be angry, but you can't stay there and I remember saying to me. You've been complaining about these through a really long time. Maybe it's time to move on, and that's that's really you're in twelve step helped me transcend that and come out the other side and I think. That, it's a really important thing when you are doing yoga and twelve step to take you out, have people bringing through realized periods? His shorts important to understand where he came from, but it's really important to give and take responsibility for your own life and Kinda move on as well. Yeah, it's kind of like here. Are The cards I was dealt? How do I want to play them? Yes, exactly exactly and and it's much it's liberating. It's liberating for other people as well and yeah anyway. Laurent here to talk about patriotic page patron as a way you can help support the podcast for as little as one door among high tears, get access to extra special content as well as a listing on our website and a shoutout on the podcasts, we also offer some extra content including a chat and I recently had where we talked about a last episode with Cora. Some of the work we've been doing mentoring teachers to get offerings online and how we found the experience. Experience of moving back to in person classes even for that short time. If you'd like to support us, as well plays go to page on dot com slash flow out his podcast and join the Patriot Klopp if you'd like to support us, and otherwise you can share this episode on social media subscribe to us on Apple, podcasts, or spotify, or just reach out and let us know your thoughts on this or anything else alright. Let's get back to our conversation with Alice Williams. Sorry just hearing. You speak about all of this now. It almost feels like the book is. Was Barth continuation of Yoga Training and your journey to recovery. Did it feel like that? Riding at the time was just like a natural progression of both of those pile, absolutely and I think to get to a point where Tiki late things. It was a lot of mental and emotional work, not just sitting down at the computer, but Noticing something would come up and I wouldn't be able to riot and I eat. I mean this is a fundamental teaching of Yoga is. Get curious if you noticed something up, get curious so every day when I'd noticed that I was really blocked can get curious. What's going on here and it would be something shameful. I didn't wanNA write about myself or resentment. I didn't know that I'd had that I knew. I was putting in the book to get revenge on someone, and so was really conscious of working through that heartfully I did before I. Actually put it out into the world. N- remember doing an interview about it, and they're talking about Boehner ability, and how does it feel to be vulnerable in a book and things and I don't feel vulnerable talking about it down the work around it. And if you still feel vulnerable about something I, would argue that you're not really ready to put it out there. In the public spotlight space some running something at the moment that which I still feel really vulnerable about. And I know that it's not ready to go out I. Just have to to work with so I think writing for me is. God I never thought I'd say these two beautiful spiritual practice. He saying that. You just saying as well. It's actually something I've read about as a principal of trauma informed teaching like to take from the skies, and not the words, so you can interesting. Yeah, you can share the stuff from your life and how you got through it, but don't share the raw stuff. Don't you stuff that you'll still healing and still working with because it's too raw to unleash on other people when they're tailoring stuff going on? Do you find when you're teaching? Sometimes you go there and you? Oh, I've got to steer why from that because I'm not through it yet? I actually had I did have that experience I was. Must Palestinians Nari that Ron had stomach cancer a few years ago, and we thought it was terminal for a little while and just I. Only told a few of my students that all of that stuff was going on because I actually found that just going to teach and having that different perspective for that Allah and my name present with other paypal. was exactly what I needed at that time, 'cause you know there's a lot of talk about into city and honesty a show, but it would not observe to like break my heart open every class and share from that place because. I needed that time where I wasn't in the depths of all of that emotional intensity, and it was actually really helpful to help me navigate through the rest of the life stuff that we had going on and I guess like we do share about always talk about that stuff. We talk about it on the PODCAST, but I'm also aware of. We know what people are bringing to their practice WanNa emotionally. People. Coming to Yoga, as they are in response from the burdens that they might be carrying in the rest of their life because he worried about you. Exactly, it's pulling them out of there are in practice definitely. Yeah, it's funny. I wonder if you both families when you're doing your training, I remember there was a point in training where we're all pretty war, role Weiner, really getting into it, and when we say how you yet the stuff just coming up and destroyed. And and it was that kind of discovering will authenticity means, and sometimes you'd go a little bit to Fi- RV share because this is seeing on TV and it feels great. Let's have no shame about things, but then as you go along, you relies actually the batteries in place and Brunei. brown is fantastic about sharing with people. Who the right to hear I. Guess It's good to make it all about you. The class, some spice to experience that said on both told the same story in classes this morning at cat who's just got these obsession with gluten free, bread. Stolen basically. Right off. The other night, and this morning I had this like scrunchy noise, and he got on the table, and like gravity's Packa- roles and lack tone into it and. Open up the bag and they're like little kitty tastes. Expensive Gluten Free Rolls and we've always felt the need to share that story. Mexican? Food. Yup. We date. Why not. I sort of curious was the. Particular moment that you decided you had to write the book or It's funny because when we were doing when we're doing the training. We had to Kate to Journal so a philosophy journal end in Journal. and. I was really writing the truth, but I tend to ride it in little saints, these happened in Niceties I. And that's often how I think in things I guess, and later on it struck me that some of it was kind of funny, and it was very different to the yoga stuff I was reading, which was quite serious and. and. I thought Jeez. Wouldn't it be great if like someone wrote something that could like Sherry the funny side of it as well so it's not only heavy, and then I thought. Hell out of it. And also I thought I. DON'T WANNA. Go through all these suffering and not turn it. This is good material. Right. And sorry I guess that leads us to this idea of yogic perfection and perfectionism, and by the shadowy within the community, which is definitely one of the things that you address in bed yard. He kind of inherent in the title really. Be Honest night that my question, yeah! Is there anything you'd like to share around that? Absolutely, only God I meet East I, remember these fantastic. You knew court, which if I, get it, someone tell me and it was something like we don't become enlightened by imagining enlightened beings who becoming Latin by making the darkness conscious and I remember Andrews, teaching tantric teachings were very much about transforming that darkness and. I look I a lot of its ensures. You've I would often find myself in your Gra environments and look, it was no one's fault suddenly and maybe I was imagining it, but you know you sometimes you're in a class or trait, and it feels like daisies groupthink or group feeling that goes on, and sometimes it's wonderful like it when you really going into the philosophies coming through, and everyone's really getting it. And other times I would find I'd be in place in would feel quite oppressive that it's quite perfectionist, and knowing wants to get wrong and I've been in workshops with quiet. Steamed teaches, and that's definitely been there being quite surprised because I I guess I. Put some teachers on a pedestal and I thought surely they wouldn't be encouraging these kind of fiction. And yet they were some of them are stifling environments. I was in and. I remember doing these retreats, and it was all women. I don't know if it's unique to environments where there's lots of women or what any one gender like I think single gendered environments can have good and bad qualities. But everyone was just being so good capital G. Greg in rural, grateful and bowing to each other all the time, and all these wonderful wonderful, and even on the coffee break. You God now decide. And and it just felt like there was. You weren't allowed to show personality. You couldn't say I know I'm really struggling this. That came up. And what do you think these means and? Everything was just scratchy. Gratitude and I remember. I went with my friend and we're driving home and rudy speeding down the highway. Swearing and she was. This is Kate who is six? Where could? She was telling me all dirty six? And it was kind of like just these unleashing of repressed energy. And I know for myself. I can be quite a perfectionist like. Hong Kinda, person and So I guess it's tapping into my intuition about am I, really getting like holding these too tightly, because if I am and I've certainly had classes pretty. COMMUNARDS teach beginning teaching. Round really knew that I was having this controlling energy on the students as well and bringing kind of FIA in the class, which is my iron fear about not being good enough teacher. And, so I think for myself. I realized that I have to get familiar with my own shadow and forgive it and I often do that meditation. Where on notice that I'm feeling really the base feelings. We will have envy desire. Whatever it is and I have to go yet. To have that. I remember it said to me once liberating. If people knew what we really thought, we'd be locked up and it was like all thank God. My. Thoughts. And that's. We have it's very liberating to accept. They slide to be self and I. Really Talk About in the book it was. Shocking to. Name it, but shocking experience to go to an Ashram in Melbourne and they have the Ashram around Stralia in the world. And now is is really fear driven. I felt atmosphere, and we're very heavy on. You WanNa. Latch away leggings. You weren't allowed to wear fitted clause because that might incite lost. You had to do these do that. Don't do this, and they were they senior teachers. He kind of would walk around in like police. And I remember thinking on, and you know at the end we we chant for our about divine, these enjoy that main. Meanwhile, it was a very joyous atmosphere. And then later on, I was doing research about sexual abuse within the community for not cool, and came upon all these transcripts from the child. What are they called? The Royal Commission on Child Sexual Abuse and they mentioned this particular Ashram and later of the Ashram. Had Been Abusing underage people, and what was most disturbing to me, was that his senior female teacher had been assisting him and everyone in the Ashram at the time. Probably we're not everyone, but most people probably had a pretty good idea of what was going on. And I. Get chills thinking about it now. Because the woman who is leading the Ashram and I. Think she's probably still there. She said in the court documents. Yeah, but those those girls could be pretty flirtatious and I just. My blood runs called thinking that this the abuse happened I think twenty years ago, but people who able to steal their. Attitudes is still there and I think. If you daren't acknowledged the shudder. I mean sure it's nice to say we've got to do it, but. If, you're in one of those yoga communities where quite closed leaving environment if the group doesn't acknowledge, the group showed then abuse can flourish in. It happened in that I. Think the Sheva I. Don't want to name the wrong, but there was another one in Melbourne that happened and and the effect on the people I mean you rate about people who've gone through abuse in the Catholic Church and they talk about when faith and abuse mixed the thing that you really relied on you to get through tough times is tainted. In one of the survivors I talked to the article said. We held these state. You're in high esteem, and when he's being in charge of your awakening, suddenly that awakening itself seems false. And one of the students edge. We were taught. This is one of the transcript. She said that there was. That, the higher up the person who abused you, ause and I'm getting a bit dark on. Sorry but. The closer to awakening. And I it's horrific because I think we can talk about these things as if they're in the past. Oh, yeah! We know about these things that would never happen, but I think that thing about that kind of abusive power source subtle and happens by degree little bit by little bit. It's not to someone corners you in an alley. And we look at the stuff with beaker. Muruga and read about anything how that happened, but it's that group mentality and I think I, know from my own experience in training and I kind of take the piece out of it in the book, but evening class of students. They was his feeling of. We're not getting it this not something wrong with us, and we're not trying hard enough, not Yogi enough. And that's why quoted. Bad Ye this idea that we Yogi can ease toxic in. And your Geeky Nafis accepting that we're titled Bags of neurotic whatever and that's okay, that's fine. Yeah exactly. Yeah. No, it's really interesting. I mean I had a workshop experience recently. I won't go to on. I had a bit of a rant on facebook about. Just the group dynamics like you said it just sort of. There was one person that same to bit outside from the group to begin with and towards the end he sort of. Made certain comments about a different I guess guru. And this person was quite forcefully and furiously rejected from the group. And that in itself, I don't think there was probably any other way that. That could have happened, but just because he was being really disruptive. Yeah, yeah, but it just sort of I found it quite scary. How the group just? The idea that you're not allowed to say that. This isn't the right place to say that I K- yell had lots of money to be here. This is what we paid for right. It's inconvenient. Eventually and. India just how group unified against this person. Interesting and I. Don't know I, feel like in certain contexts within the the cycle spiritual community. Even the language we use can lead us towards the sister nation, which is not gary in what way what language I guess when we say things like like you mentioned before that. We should. Anything saying we should be arriving at a particular destination I. think sits up things for. That's interesting because I guess it's also about responsibility, and I think about someone like Marianne Williamson who in the. Spiritual world and she talks a lot about. If you become a your your teacher off you going to spiritual stuff, somehow you can't have that spiritual bypass way you educate yourself for responsibility for the world. You still have to speak. Happy still have to do what's right. It's not just looking at yourself and your all. That's just my issue. You do have to speak up and she leads me to a question. I was just about to us because we all identified this issue in this dynamic in different places that we've Bainian. Where to from here, like what do you do when you kind of sense that current in the room and that feeling of group mentality and maybe? It, not feeling rush figure. Yeah, look I think on a big advocate of the Middle Way, not demonizing any one particular group and don't think we and is just a different Hubbard. Great mentality really looking. Right is group on facebook. It's women riders, and it can get quite hated in there about you not allowed to say this Weirdo that word. You're not allowed to say. Hey, guys because that's. Agenda. And Look I, I understand, but I think we can meet the bigger picture, a little bit and sorry I think when you're in situations where there is that group feet think one you have to think easy, actually worth saying. Is it kind of it is I think it's coming at it from A. Not, a position of opposition, but we've all got the same goal. And maybe this idea is impinging that goal so not coming at it from UTICA, there's enough polarization as it is, but you still have to be direct and. One of the things I've noticed in yoga world. Well, not. I'm being kind of generalizing, but they can be tendency to Heggie bits, and you don't really say something to strongly. There's that wishy-washiness. No, that's never what it's about. It's about really tapping into that fire and children, the Buddhist nuns. She says it's not about becoming this personality Bliss Blob. It's about bracing the spice in the fire and and taking responsibility. Yeah that. I think that's a really good perspective. As well because the phone training I was just in those little discussion about owning what we feel and using I. Statements and not being kind of like waste. Vince about like Oh. Yeah, this thing happens in society, but actually like I. Feel like this or I feel like something just happened here and maybe we should all have a bit of a look at that, because think no one can argue with you about how you feel And that's exactly what you're saying that being authentic and speaking up but not. Speaking for anyone, but yourself may agree in that situation I. Think the other thing that I. Am I'm noticing myself hedging my bets about how to say this, but I think that there's I statements. I think they're great and we can also sleep into. I'm offended, or I'm heard. Therefore, you've done something wrong that that sense of that victim place. And? Even though it's easy important to earn your truth, it's about earning it a not holding others responsible like it's your job to say how you feel. But it's not anyone else's job to fix that. Does that make sense? Yeah, definitely and I guess as well. It's not your job to say how you feel every second century. Oh God I had a friend that was. So worried I am that I. Won't having a podcast is so good. Write a memoir and then. I. Say, you're right in that your idea about your somewhat sarcastic time that you often take in like your online, you know like articles and you'd kind of named it. He halide that Saigon sident sarcastic age to you're writing something that comes really easily, and it's funny, and it's engaging, and it is kind of. Poking Fun at a sacred how or two, but do you think it's also a way of kind of masking a bit of vulnerability, absolutely absolutely and I I was aware of that and then the further I've gone on further I've seen. It can be a shield, and it's usually when I'm reading something in my poll readers. I'm sure they've had it before I. Did in fact some of them have? Have told me Matab rod it because of it, it's when I'm getting quite tied reading my writing and it's like I've really been hammering something. What am I? What am I trying to hide behind and definitely humid can be a, but I didn't is going to sound to be my child grown up, but I didn't realize that hasn't with hostile kind of form of humor until I had children. And then I realized that kids don't get sarcasm. Not Old enough yet to understand the nuance, but they get this hostility behind it, and that's when I decided to really pull back and think if I need to be sarcastic to make a point. What's going on new theory that away, and not saying that you can't be funny, but if I'm relying on that to be funny. Kinda lazy or this. There's something there that I need to look at. So can I call it one of your articles? After a long week of telling paper debris, the in and ask, there's nothing better than lying on the catch to what should jelly good beheading of turns? And if the theme of the classes equanimity chances are we try not to take it personally that people who turned up to last night's class DETTORI body. Love Patience and forgiving those who wronged us. And side that was from your article. Things that Yoga is dying to tell you, but probably aren't. which I think is hilarious. Thinking you. That was very funny. When I wrote that because I didn't think it would do anything, it's just a quick fun thing. And then it got republished an American side, and I think it went up to have a million, and I thought if I got paid by that, it'd be great butting. Get paid anything so that sucks. What was really interesting about that was it had a lot of comments afterwards from Yoga teaches, and it was really polarized between on my God. Thank God someone saying these and Real Anga like e should be a yoga teacher and I don't think these things and Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah and when I started to think about the shadowy side of your get that. When there was that real pushback that had day. You you awful person than I thought I kind of fun. Let's let's keep going here. Obviously I've like struck something. And say has your perspective on the world changed much since you're right bad Yogi. Yeah, well I think. I'm probably moving in different circles than I was, but one of the things that I've noticed is that there seems to be a lot more focus on diversity in body positivity in Yoga which is brilliant, and at the same time there's a whole lot more instigate influences in that that side. It's always skinny white on a beach in the background. That side is stronger than ever, and I don't think it's going anywhere, but I think we're getting to be more critically informed about how to understand didn't deconstruct those images. and. I think one of the things I'm actually really noticing as a student is I. Mean there's a lot of the lot more teacher trainings that. Teaches at foster right. The teachers are quite young. And I think it's brilliant. That younger is becoming more accessible to people, but at the same time there are a lot of teachers out there who maybe don't have life experience, or who have that image of Yoga. And I'm re our. It really frustrates me that I'll be in studio classes and they'll be a teacher. He doesn't really look at the students. WHO's not looking in assessing the students posture. One of my bug as adjustments like I li- I mean I come from a younger I. Love a good adjustment. It makes me feel cared about and makes me feel I. Can progressing and a real reluctant to put hands on a student, and I look I understand this stuff about consent, so find a way of getting consent and you. Someone doesn't want it. Don't do it, but the title hands off approach like I say people who've been in the same class for years, and they're still doing these horrible and when I say horrible, I mean like really unaligned looks really horrible for their joints. Parties I WANNA go in there and say look just. 'cause you know every time it's going to late to injury. And it feels like. A lot of teachers aren't really saying saying this students. They just coming in teaching the class of being taught to teach. And also I kind of mourn and look I found really old jaded, but the just that thing of. It becoming an exercise class in that, there's not a lot of bringing of yoga philosophy, just a little here and there it's only an age. And there's not that sense of we are doing this to draw inwards to kind of feel good I can do this. I can't do that, Pyrenees. So that that's saddens me, but on the other hand there's a lot more in the direction of understanding of your corden injury. There is a lot more awareness in that area and yeah I look. I think anything that encourages diversity is brilliant I. Really do get tired of seeing studios having one body type in all the imagery, their advertising. Yeah. It's really frustrating especially when they position themselves as positive studio, there are a couple of studios in Melbourne. Who? Have Teaching does not reflect what they say. The philosophy is, and it's it's funny. I was on Instagram the other day, and I saw a teacher that I used to have and she was. On a clifftop doing that been that most people can't do and the court with something like respecting your body in its limitations. And not comparing yourself and I just thought. Like. Off To people who want to put peaches themselves on instagram doing that stuff there. There's no problem with that, but then if you're going to talk about not comparing yourself, of course, people are going to look at that and think Oh, I couldn't do that. And of course, people are gonNA. Look at that and think not should respect my body's limitations so that. That kind of hypocrisy can can be strong. Sometimes I think just Asako back to what you're saying about your experience in class as well how it doesn't even have to be a hands on physical adjustment, it can just being present with that person and being mindful and teaching in a way that helps people find their own INA alignment and have that mindful awareness. And that can be philosophy. It doesn't even have to be a Sutro and required Josten. Guiding people into a more rich in a experience and better understanding of themselves, but you I think to do that. You have to be able to do that. Yourself and I've noticed I noticed when I started teaching yourself in rushing from class to class and I was feeling not in my body, and I just got their five minutes before and. It, I mean it should be in the job description of a argued that teach you that you have to take five minutes. I sent to yourself, and if we're not centered and I include myself so much in this, I'm so she that was made this morning. Boy was sent it. How are we going to give that to students But yeah, that's not usually in the. Comes back to that perfectionism thing as well like we aren't always perfect. People who've set aside. Every morning, so we can take your place and hopefully just comes through within. You know. He's a bad stuff kind of all the way. So. I guess we're coming towards the end of our time together. I feel like we could probably talk for now that. I'm I. Do have one more question and that is if you could distill everything you've learnt and everything that you teach a navy everything that you've written down into one call listen. What do you think that one thing would be? It would be. That we all have that wisdom insiders. It's there even when we can't hear it and I. Really WanNa. Stress fit even even when we don't think we're worthy of match and it loves us and we're perfect. And all we need to do is figure vessels, figuring others and get quiet and listen, and that can be the hardest thing of all, but you'll save so much money in coaching in workshops in pay other people to tell you what you should do if you can learn to listen to that, voices help. Oh. What a great night to end on! Thank you so much, Kitty! I hope you enjoyed our conversation with Alice as I mentioned at the start. Who Book Bad. Yogi has an excellent raid. You should definitely check it out. For our next episode we're speaking with Robin Kameda on pretty excited about this episode, because recently wrote the book infinite threads, one hundred indigenous insights from old Moody Manuscripts, which takes you on an epic opening journey through a series of one hundred interpretations of the Wisden's stories and words of. Moldy sages I absolutely love this book as someone who is Modiin feels slightly disconnected from his indigenous roots, and for me this book highlight some of the commonalities between indigenous and eastern spirituality. Look out the episode in two weeks time, we'll be right out things as baby robots by go Gozo and is used with permission gives music from Gozo dot bank came dot com. Joe and I would like to under the out of these wisdom traditions of Yoga and mindfulness from India and other parts of Asia. We also wished to honor the traditional custodians of the unseeded land. This podcast is recorded. There were under the people of the KULIN nation. Thank you so much for listening Joe and I appreciate you. Spend your precious time with. At Ohio Nowy, big big love.

Melbourne facebook Ashram Joan I Alice Williams John I Williamstown Ron Kate Baggies Nepal Andrews Joe Stewart malvern Yoga writer Alison Great T. Oh Alex Aaron
Collette Chilton  Humility and Loyalty at Williams College (Capital Allocators, EP.174)

Capital Allocators

51:38 min | 2 months ago

Collette Chilton Humility and Loyalty at Williams College (Capital Allocators, EP.174)

"Capital allocators is brought to you by anchor sponsors connections and northern trust. Front office solutions. Be sure to join. Ike connections on january twenty first through twenty nineth for its global alternatives conference allocators. Subscriptions are complementary event will feature world renowned speakers in economics technology healthcare and investing though present exclusive insights on what to expect in the months ahead the i. Connections community seamlessly connects investment managers and allocators worldwide. For more information please visit i- connections dot. I trust front office. Solutions recognizes that sophisticated multi asset class investors need high tech and high touch data management solutions for their front end middle offices northern trust front office solutions combines high powered functionality with exceptional client service to help asset allocators efficiently evaluate their portfolios accelerate their insights and mitigate their operational risk visit northern trust dot com slash solutions to learn more. Hello i'm ted saudis and this is capital allocators. This show is an open exploration of the people and process behind capital allocation through conversations with leaders. In the money game we learn how these holders of the keys to the kingdom allocate their time and their capital. You can keep up to date by visiting. Capitol allocators podcasts dot com. My guest on today's show is colette. Chilton the chief investment officer of williams college where she's overseeing it's three billion dollar portfolio since two thousand and six. Colette is nothing. Short of a legend in the business she sat in a cio seat since the early one thousand nine hundred ninety s at the helm of public pension mass prim and corporate pension lucent before joining williams institutional investor bestowed its lifetime achievement award on colette in two thousand and nineteen and barron's named her one of the one hundred most influential women in finance in two thousand and twenty. Our conversation covers collects career. Path and lessons learned before joining williams. We then turn to her arrival at williams in two thousand and six to a phone a computer and a legacy portfolio williams governance structure leveraging alumni advisors asset allocation manager selection manager monitoring hedge funds venture capital and navigating around popular managers. Today show is also sponsored by queen base prime a leading prime brokerage for digital assets coin base provides a bridge to the crypto world for institutional investors high net worth individuals financial institutions and corporate investors through their professional trading platform deep and diversified liquidity execution expertise and coin based custody one of the largest and most trusted digital asset custodians for institutions looking to enter the crypto currency markets visit prime dot coin base dot com. Please enjoy my conversation with colette. Chilton thank you so much for doing this. Thank you for asking me. You've been at this. And the seat for a long time. And i mean i guess it makes sense to go back and ask how you first got interested. In investing it was purely out of necessity. i was working in investment banking. I was nine months and two weeks pregnant with my second daughter. And this was during the banking crisis in nineteen ninety three and The bank eliminated the group. I was in. And i was the first person they walked into. Hr because i literally was almost ten months pregnant. And i needed to have a job. We needed both of us to be working. And so i went around and look for a job before my daughter was born and then as soon as possible after my daughter was born and a guy who i had done. Some transactions with a lawyer was the general counsel for the state treasurer. Who at that. Time was the sole trustee in massachusetts and the guy who was a straight treasurer was a republican. Who had come in. After bob crane. Who was a famous sole trustee and democrat treasurer massachusetts. And there were all kinds of things that had been alleged to have been going on so we will. They were being investigated by everybody. You could imagine. And so this guy. I knew said i know you don't know anything about investing but this'll be a great experience. You'll learn so much because it's bad here and so that was A there used to be to pension funds massachusetts. That was called masters and so i went to work at master's knowing nothing. Remember going to my first meeting in new york with this guy and he said so. You know the difference between growth and value right. And i'm like i don't know what any of this So that is. It was purely out of necessity. I needed a job. And he offered me a job. And i worked at the state pension fund for five years and it was amazing. You spent that time. The state pension fund and he's been a longtime corporate pension fund at lucent. What are the key lessons and differences. You saw those types of the capital while some of it's all the same right across the three different public corporate pension funds and endowment. You know we're looking for good managers and trying to find him and the difference. Is that those pools of capital you have liabilities and you have retirees that you are supporting whereas at williams we support over fifty percent of the operating budget so it's incredibly important but they're they're like people i knew who retired and we're relying on what we did every day and that was amazing. You really felt the importance of what you did. And other difference at the state pension fund. Is you get paid nothing so it really is public service. You're doing it for the greater good and that was amazing. I love that part of it. But you also have to worry about your name showing up in the paper every single day of your job and so when i left there that was like what we celebrated at my going away party is that they never got me. You know you're just you're just collateral damage for them going after the state treasurer and it's like oh i can embarrass. That person might embarrass the state treasurer. And it's very tempting when you're not making much and people are offering you things and a lot of people in public funds get in trouble for that reason And it's not a very glamorous part of this we're all done people are really. They're mission focused the people who do those jobs. You've interviewed some of them. Like my friend chris hillman and it's an amazing bunch people anyway. So that's different from the other to go back to that time. What was the most outlandish thing you were offered. So the pension funds up here terribly underfunded and mismanaged each city in town has its own pension fund and so the state one started doing well and so then. The town's could invest with the state so there was actually a client facing part of it and the guy who did the client stuff was offered a car by a manager and he said it was okay to take it because they had the name of the firm on the side of the car. So it wasn't actually. They were giving him a car. It was like they were giving him a pen or some other kind of swag had their name on it so it was a joke in the office as long as it has a firm's name on it it doesn't matter what they give you there. Were certainly people who took full advantage of that upper eighties. Which firm was branded cars. There are a lot of big firms in boston a long time ago. You'd think we could say all right. They're still in business. I'll tell you that much. So we'll keep the name quiet for now and maybe we'll share it with their premium. Members at the end of the recording was exactly. Exactly what was the impetus for moving men onto loosen. I'm from the bay area. And we had two little girls. And i was desperate to live closer to my to have more help. You know both of us working fulltime and two little girls. So i started looking for something in san francisco and there was a guy at goldman back in the day named tom. Healy something called the pension services group and he covered pension funds very effectively and he invited me to lunch one day and he said oh. I know you're looking for something. I have the perfect job for you. There's this company the spinning out of. At and t. called lucent. And i'm like where is that and he said it's in new jersey. Tom new jersey is not san francisco and so he kinda reeled me in goldman had done. The ipo loosened spun out of at and t. and he was very close to the treasurer and it was just an amazing opportunity. Despite not being in the bay area had seventy five billion dollars in a m and it was like the last piece of the spin out from a and t and the treasurer was a forty year old woman so in the. at and t. world that's unheard of and she was amazing and she convinced me to take this job and like literally. Nobody knew anything. About what i was doing. They're like here's a phone. And a qb and seventy five billion dollars go at it. It just felt like the opportunity of a lifetime. And how could i pass it up. What are the portfolio. Look like with your phone and seventy five billion dollars while it was hard to figure that out because at and t. Was still managing the money for lucent south. It took a while for us to make that transfer an at and t. Was one of the first corporate pension funds to invest in venture capital and private equity. So you know it started off and family offices and endowments and foundations and then there were small group of corporate pension funds like at and t. and gm and ge and they were early to those asset classes so we actually had a great venture and private equity portfolio and so that was the illiquid part which was a nightmare to separate because we had to go through each agreement and negotiate with the gp when we are splitting apart and loosen was bigger than a t and t and so we were also negotiating with our largest client because at and t. Bought more lucent equipment than anybody else. It was just an interesting time but a great a great portfolio. We are incredibly lucky to get started with that. How impact could that have been in size. Relative to seventy billion dollars of assets while part of the seventy five billion was the defined contribution plan which we invested in the separately managed accounts of the defined benefit plan so of the defined benefit plan was probably fifty billion. But i don't remember the numbers. It's been a long time but it was. There was a lot of venture in private equity. The returns on the portfolio had been very good so i started there in nineteen ninety eight. We're getting a lot of distributions of our venture portfolio. I used to make the joke. That lucent was really a pension fund with a little bit of technology on the side. Which is what drove the earnings of the company for that whole time but nobody thought that joke was funny except for me but it was actually pretty close to the truth. How did that influence you. Invested the capital. Well we had liabilities and so despite those liabilities we still had a lot of equity. In our portfolio the pension fund had to underlying groups of employers went occupational one management and they both at different points in time were well over-funded their assets to their liabilities. Which is unusual for corporate pension funds. So we actually suggested to the board of the company that they basically immunize the portfolio and lock and the gains. After i left one of them was in process. When i was leaving and the other one i think got done after i left but it didn't happen before various market correction so have a number that you have to meet. It's different from an endowment or foundation. How long were you listened about. Eight or nine years when i started at lucent there one hundred and fifty thousand employees in when i left there were eight thousand employees. Wow it was quite a ride. So i was working at loosen. It was living in boston. We had moved. We opened an office in boston and was easier to hire people for that kind of work in boston. Then in suburban new jersey and so my family. We all moved back to boston. Rather than being in new jersey and tell had announced a merger with lucent but it hadn't closed yet and somebody from the williams investment committee called me and said. Hey we're going to start up an investment office. And how would you like to talk to us about it. He said would you think about coming in. Starting the investment office at williams you've started an investment operation at loosen. Obviously on a much bigger scale. You know you have the playbook you can do this. And i said no. No no. this is my team. I hired all these people. There are twenty five of us. And you know you don't walk away from your team and back and forth and he finally said you know colleges don't get taken over so this is actually more stable job and i'm like it's not a takeover it's a merger blah blah anyway So then i started meeting. Some of the williams people and i got completely sucked in after having said no to the initial phone. Call the last person who i met in the process was the guy who is the president of the time marty shapiro. Who's now at northwestern. And he's just an amazing guy and salesperson. I expected new england. Liberal arts college bow tie nodded all hilarious cracking jokes wearing funny just wonderful guy and he was the closer. I guess because after that. I i think that's what i said. Yes so yeah. So what did it look like. When you arrived it was like the phone and the cube again. There was like nothing and so part of the plan was to set the office up in boston but there was nothing so i had to go work in williamstown for the first six months which was great except that i had to leave my family every monday morning and come back on thursday night but williams towns mazing and the portfolio was incredible because the way that the college invested the money as they had committees of alumni volunteers all in the investment business there lot of williams people in the investment business and they got williams into funds that they liked and so it started off with joe rice at sea. Dnr and a couple other people of his era and they would sit around the williams club in new york and decide what to invest in so they started off in stocks and bonds. And then one of the guys up here in boston l. kherson. I knew something about venture said you know. Let's let's try a little venture and and so we did a little venture and so this was like i don't know in the seventies or something so we ended up with this incredible venture and private equity portfolio. Joe rice's good friend. Was john candy. And so we were in like the earliest. Cdr madison dearborn funds. And that was true. Like across the board in every asset class just like something special because of those incredible alumni. Volunteers who put the portfolio together. It was just you and a bunch of great manager so headed you think about what you wanted to put together. So there is the structure of the portfolio and the structure of the team. Right and you kind of have to do all of that at the same time. And so the first person i hired was a guy who had i had worked with that the state and loosen who came to be our cfo and so that was a critical higher. Name's brad wakeman amazing. He's still here. He's our cfo coo today. And he just brought order from chaos and so we have worked together for a long time so we kind of knew like what we needed to do and how to chop the wood and then we built the team out from there and then we had an analyst at cambridge who covered williams who has a williams alarm and we hired her as our first analyst. And she's now managing director abigail. Otley and then. I heard my assistant christine corrigan. Who still here today. So that was kind of the core at the beginning and then as far as the portfolio. Who'd probably too many managers you know. The problem with having committees put portfolios together as they love putting stuff in there really. Don't like taking stuff out and it's hard to agree on what to stop doing. And so and there wasn't really what i would call a policy portfolio. You know i came from this world in the corporate pension fund public pension fund where we have a policy portfolio and you manage to a target and you have ranges around target and that was important and liquidity was important and organizing things in that way which hadn't really been the way it was done and so fortunately we had one manager was sort of a balanced manager and it was a significant part of the endowment. When i started what significant to calibrate well was more than thirty percent in one manager. Yeah okay so. I started in two thousand and six. We had that manager in the portfolio when we went into the financial crisis and it was the only separately managed account we had and it was basically large-cap s and p five hundred stocks. So it was amazing. Because we're sending money to the college like eight out of twelve months. And i'm barely have figured out where my offices let alone the portfolio and we have this incredible liquidity gift. That we didn't even know was going to be important and so that helped us get through the last financial crisis and And we had these amazing managers and the other thing. That was really fortuitous. Is the people who were on. The investment committee on our advisory committees had all been involved for a long time so there was this huge sense of stability. It's like we're gonna to be okay. Don't worry about it. We got this which is nice when you're new in a job when you go into a situation like that when the governance structure always comes up with something challenge you have the committee and then you have these advisory committees by class or category. How do you work with them. So that structure was in place before we had the investment office. And so that's how they invested the portfolios. They'd have a marketable committee picking long equity managers and they had a committee called the special strategies committee which was the inception of the hedge funds and amazing people on that committee so the chair of that committee was bill. Simon is famous for almost being republican governor of california. He's a wonderful person and dear friend so he chaired that and then people on the committee were like on his halverson paul singer and just very successful investors who liked to get together and argue about what to put into the portfolio. We kept that structure in place but those committees became advisory and they didn't actually vote on anything but they helped us with the portfolio and then the investment committee is the fiduciary committee. It's a standing committee of the board and they actually vote on hiring managers on that kind of thing and so one of my jobs at the beginning was to make that all work and honestly that is one of the most fun parts of my job. It's like ahead twenty four bosses. I love all of them. They all help us in different ways. And i tell people that that's the secret sauce of the williams investment program. We have these. Alums are on these committees and they love helping us and they don't have an extra grind. They're not trying to sell us something or it's like you can call them and say what do you think about this manager and you get sort of a thumbs up thumbs down past. They love williams. They want it to go. Well i'm us have good performance and so it's really incredible. I mean other people call me from time to time at similarly sized schools and they'll say someone on my committee heard about your structure and they want us to do this and sounds like a nightmare. I said you know. I love it. And it's super helpful when you have a small team and you're covering the world so take me back say ten years you get out of the crisis you have the liquidity to match and now you can put in place the policy portfolio that you think makes sense. What did that look like. And what does it look like today. Well i wish it were as you described head that we got through the crisis and then we got to get started but we are actually doing all of that starting in two thousand six through the crisis coming out the other side wasn't like they said okay just like hang out here and wait for this to be over. So we're in the crisis. We had just set up our investment office. We had just moved files from williamstown to boston. And i don't know if it was the weekend of lehman or bear. Stearns it was one of those weekends in office looking for our contracts to see what we can do in the situation with all of these managers and we had some contracts so it was an interesting time. When you're you know it's a new office and you have long standing relationships and you're trying to figure out what is going on here while the world's coming apart all around you but coming out of that what did we do. We really didn't do much differently. We had sort of core fixed income going into the crisis because of this manager who was kind of a balanced fund so that was helpful and we had added to that fixed income going into the crisis. Because you look at how much we support at williams and was like. Wow we might want to have some fixed income in here so that was helpful and then we also had put in some credit non investment grade credit in the portfolio not because we had any view on the markup but just had added that going into before the crisis and that all performed like equities during the crisis and so that was helpful but then coming out of the crisis wasn't like we took this most liquid part of the portfolio and went crazy with it. We just you know like we have the whole time. Just tried to find very very good managers and not too many of them. You know when i started the was one point five billion and now it's three billion over fourteen years. We've tried to keep the number managers the same as when i started. That was sort of our philosophy. How many managers is that today across the portfolio. It's just over sixty. So when i started if you went through the portfolio and you said you know this private equity fund. We've already passed on so it's not active but if you counted the active relationships were kind of at the same number as we were then so walk me. Through quick what. The asset allocation structure looks like today. Well it's mostly equity. It's almost all equity. We no longer have the fixed income that we had back. Then we still have some credit. But it's just all forms of equity. We have almost forty percent of our portfolio and hedge funds and that is partly driven by just the the hedge funds that we have so. It's kind of bottom up fundamental. We have great managers and and they happen to be global long short or what we call absolute return managers. The private part of the portfolio is about a third of the portfolio. I wanna say and then we have what we call globe along equity so we have frictional cash. We don't have fixed income or cash. We really need the equity to grow the assets to support the college you know that had trump portfolio was to start. There is quite a bit bigger than your peers and yet for the decade where hedge funds have been under the microscope to say the least your returns have been right up there with the best and i'm curious how you've gone about that. I mean you mentioned. We have great managers. Everyone likes to think they have great managers. Well it's not like we said okay. Let's have forty percent and go fill the bucket. It's you know we have these amazing managers and do we want to have a little bit more a little bit less of that. We're not very tactical and we don't make a lot of changes in our policy portfolio. We look at it every year and review it with the committee. Maybe like a one or two percent. Change kind of at the margin you know. All of our value add is in manager selection. It's not in calling the market or anything like that when we do the attribution work. It's it's all manager selection. How many different managers to have across that forty percent had once maybe ten or fifteen walk through what that process is like when you make a change putting a manager. Egner taking a manager out Could be both to different decision. It takes us about a year between the time we meet someone and recommend putting them into the portfolio. So we're pretty careful. Like i said we really try to manage the number of relationships in the portfolio in part. Because we don't want to dilute away returns by having too many managers and in part because we're just this lean mean team here of not a lot of people covering a lot of the world so we've gone back and run the numbers and it's about a year from you know i meet you and by the time we do all the work and we met you a few times and make a decision about investing in them bring a recommendation to the investment committee. It's pretty slow outside of the basics of you know you wanna get to know the people in the strategy in how they go about it. What do you think or the most important aspects of a manager. You're trying to tease out in the ones that do make it to the portfolio versus the ones that might be close. But don't i mean there are a lot of good investors in the world right and we don't need to be invested with all of them but the ones that we have need to be really good. So that's how we kind of think about it. We do lots and lots and lots of meetings. We track the number of meetings. We do like five hundred meetings a year between our current and potential managers and we only will add a small handful of new managers every year. So part of it's just meeting so many different people that you start recognizing things and i've been doing this for a long time. So you start recognizing things and you also remember where people came from and what they used to do and when they change the name of their firm what they were doing and that kind of stuff. So that's definitely helpful his years and years of experience but some of its art in some of its science. You know. there's a lot of what my team calls desk work that you can do. And that might tell you part of the story. But it's really meeting people and their strategy makes sense for what they're saying they're doing and for their assets under management and we've done a lot of investing with first time funds or a day one investor about a third of our portfolio. When i went back and looked at you know we were in fund one or invested with somebody who started so a lot of times. Track record isn't really available or the most important thing. So what is the most important thing somebody who's honest somebody who you can trust somebody who you're you're not gonna lose sleep at night. What's important for us is understanding. What are managers do and being able to explain it to the investment committee. So i've always sort of felt like if i can't explain to these guys what we're doing and why something went wrong but nice shouldn't be in this job so as a result we don't have a lot of black box macro quant kind of stuff in our portfolio lot of fundamental bottom up kind of managers where you can understand. Most of what they're doing. What are your conversations like with the kind of long standing managers in your portfolio on a routine basis. What you're trying to dig into to learn about. Well if you ask my team they would answer that one way. If you ask me. I won't answer it in a different way. So i've done one manager meeting during covid. I was in san francisco a couple of weeks ago. And i met with one of our managers out there and we spent more time talking about everything but the portfolio and this manager they're fabulous. Investors are not crushing at right now. But i didn't really want to go talk to him like can we go position by position. Can you tell me why this isn't working and why this is working and we talked about a lot of stuff. We talked about the election and covert and their lives. And what's been going on. And i feel like i walked away from that knowing a lot. More about how. They're thinking about things without having talked about the positions and your team. That would be very different. They wanna have like the notes in front of them and their ipad and taking notes and asking him position by position and and that's appropriate. You know i'm responsible for nothing and everything and i've been doing this for a long time and you know if we had performance wasn't great it's my responsibility but you know the people on my team are the ones who do all of the work to get us there. If you're having a meeting one on one you can cover certain personal things that might not get covered as much in a meeting with say three or four of you. Managers have limited amount of time. They spend with each client. So how do you think about. What are you trying to tease out and win over time in one of these relationships well i would say. We're very respectful of our managers time. We like to see each manager at least once a year if not twice and many of the managers we have in our portfolio. We've had for twenty years or something like that. Our practice is to see them at least once a year. My team definitely does that. And they're in touch with a much more by phone in that kind of thing but we try to be. Lp's or clients who are not kind of overstaying are welcome. And i think that's worked out well for us because then when we are looking at a new firm or trying to get into a fund. And they're doing their due diligence on us. I think that's what they hear about us is that we're not you know. Taking too much of their time. I meet every manager before we hire somebody. And then once they're in the portfolio. I travel about fifty percent of the time in normal times. And so i see a lot of people along the way obviously the most important relationships and the trickiest relationship but it's not like i parachute in when somebody's having performance difficulty in you know. Bring the hammer down. That's not how we do things and i would say. I probably do the least amount talking when i go to meetings with my team. And it's their relationship and they know these guys the best and then i'll hear them say something and ask a question. And it's not a gotcha culture in our office. That's really like trying to understand what they're doing. And is this what we hired them. Far do you see any commonalities in that group of managers of either way. They invest or the size of the balance sheet that they're using or their exposures that have been more conducive to success than others so the legacy of our portfolio al was andrea was part of the committee that started this portfolio and there are a lot of williams people who have worked at tiger or tiger family firms. And so what that means for our portfolio today is there's kind of this fundamental bottom up kind of investing style. We have managers who were not part of tiger but there's definitely coming into williams and never having invested in a hedge fund. I learned a lot from those people and the culture of williams is one of incredible accomplishment and success and incredible modesty and humility and people really helped me when i got started so when i look at our list of global long short. They're doing all different things and some move their exposures around and some do privates and some are incredible shorting. And you know we have a small number and they'll do different things so we don't need to have three firms all doing the same thing in a much bigger portfolio so when you turn over to the absolute return inside of it did serve the same purpose. You mentioned earlier that andreas did on the long short mean did he influence what was in the portfolio. There are a lot of good stories about what happened in those committee meetings back in the day so chair to share any one particular good one. That was before my time. There was so much debate that i think the outcome was really good. There was no sort of polite. Oh yeah i agree with you. That's that's yeah. I think that's good too. So i mean paul was an incredible committee member and surfer longtime and he's not an alum has two sons who went to williams which is how he got involved and was an incredible non alum volunteer. You mentioned earlier that you had a terrific group of venture capital managers from when you showed up it still a small percentage of your portfolio both on an absolute basis and relative to some of your endowment asian peers. Curious how you've thought about now clearly asset class. That's done extraordinarily well with the managers who had whether or not you'd grow it. And if so how so. Our target allocation is six percent. Our current allocation is like three times that we haven't done anything differently. It was the same managers and we commit the same amount of capital when a fund is raised. So we have terrific managers and we look forward to them taking advantage of the ipo market and doing direct listings and returning capital to us. That's not a secret anyway. So between that and the private equity it's twenty some odd percent of the portfolio. The allocation to venture and private equity haven't changed since i started with the college and it really goes back to this need for liquidity because we support so much of the operating budget so we spend a lot of time looking at liquidity and unfunded commitments and how we compared to peer institutions and how much they have an unfunded commitments and an illiquid investments so we are slightly less than the schools that have the best tenure returns but not very different and we haven't really moved off of those targets because we have to be careful about our liquidity and and we look at our unfunded commitment level moving around and what that means and we didn't get upside down in the last financial crisis and have to borrow because we couldn't get money in our portfolio and and that's just really important to williams the endowment is here to support the college endowment is not just here to be a pool of capital to ambassador. Sure anderson as you have a six percent target that's grown to eighteen. Well call it. Sixteen sixty was that a recent phenomenon in the last couple years with ordinary performance. Or is that just something that's evolved over time and haven't changed the allocation. It's all performance driven. So we really. We had some core relationships. When i got here that we've been with for a very very long time. That have been great. And then we've added a few names in our portfolio but a lot and mostly first time funds in different parts of the world or here but we haven't really add much as far as relationships but when the funds do well it grows. We saw the same thing with our private equity portfolio. Where targets nine percent and it was well above that when buyouts were doing well now it's ventures the good thing is we have all these people on our committee who have seen it before as have i and my team that's like this too shall pass or there's a couple of ways at shell pass right. Once you get the distributions it comes down the others less exciting yes. How how have you thought about managing around those allocations when they move away from longer-term targets. We definitely talk about. Should we move the target as the actual has moved then. It becomes tempting to add more relationships and make bigger commitments. And then you've gone from the current target to bigger target to it. You know so we just stay the course and it's bigger than the target but as you said it will come back down hopefully for good reason and not because valuations dropped precipitously. So we're lucky to be in these amazing partnerships and we really value them and they are private portfolios have done really well over long periods of time and we don't try and reinvented all the time are venture portfolios barbell between these very long standing relationships and then some new stuff and that's been good to us because what was new ten years ago now is very established and very successful. What have you found in the newer stuff that has worked. And hasn't i mean listen. We all make mistakes. You haven't asked me that yet but happy to talk about higher mistakes mistakes in the portfolio mean. You can't have one of these jobs without having a whole you know. We could just talk about mistakes. So which wouldn't be wouldn't be a lot of fun but let's have no. I think it's great talk about the mistake that you learn the most from well one of the mistakes was you know you have someone who you think is a good adviser and they say something to you like run. Don't walk to this manager and you do and that is not necessarily a good thing to do. I mentioned earlier that we have sort of a slow careful process for adding new managers and getting to know them. And sometimes when you move too fast and you don't do everything that you normally would because of not having time to do that and that doesn't necessarily end up well. Should you have a particular story in mind about that. I have a specific manager in mind. So what was it that you missed that you think you would have gotten with more time. Well you know. Sometimes a lot of the best managers don't give you a lot of transparency on the way in and it's a little bit of a trust me and sometimes you just have to go with that and you do as much reference checking and talking to people who are investors and people who know that person or know the firm as you can but there's a little bit of a sometimes you just have to step off the clip and hope for the best and most of the time that's worked out for us and sometimes it just doesn't and sell some of it's unknowable ahead. Of time but if you are investing by definition you're taking risk and so if you don't take risk you're not gonna have return in tennessee lingo. That's to some extent unforced air. How but four stairs for me personally. It's all your friends are doing it. And you say doesn't feel right to me but all the cool kids are doing this. So we're going to do and that's never a good strategy and there are some big things that have blown up that we haven't been in and there have been things that we would prefer to not have been invested in. It's funny because in pension fund law. There's some protection for investing in something that everybody else's here. It's not like that. Like if i said the reason we invested in ted's firm is because all these really smart people were in it and even though we couldn't really get there that you know they're in it that's like not a good answer. How do you balance that with the reality that you're venture capital portfolio. Your hedge fund portfolio generally speaking these so-called great managers that everybody loves there are a lot of other great investors alongside of you. So it's not necessarily the case that in a lot of the managers at drive your returns. There isn't a good crowd alongside of you. We're definitely careful about who we invest alongside as that can drive the outcome right but you can be in things with other good investors and have a bad outcome so we were in a hedge fund and forgotten about this. But you're making me like think of all these bad things. We are in a hedge fund where the guy at like five o'clock on new year's eve day announce that he was turning the hedge fund from a hedge fund into a publicly listed security. That was a holding company. For all these underline investments we evolve and trying to redeem and he wouldn't let us redeem and he said you have complete liquidity. It's the security but he he was the majority owner of the security so the only liquidity came from him and that was a long drawn out really bad expensive legal fees experience and we were alongside some great investors but there were also some large investors with just a different motivation and they were kind of driving what was happening there. So what is it in your thought process that drives that situation where all the cool kids were there. But there's something telling you not to go with them. I mean part of it's for me personally is instinct and if you don't feel one hundred percent comfortable with the person like even if all those people are doing it or if you just don't get it you know sometimes people say oh you know he's doing blah blah blah. She's doing blah blah blah on. If i don't get it then we shouldn't do it and they're definitely things that a lot of other people are in and have done fabulously well with and were not in it in part because of that kind of experience or you know i've experienced this before in a different flavor or different version and sometimes it's like i'm glad we didn't do it and sometimes i'm really sad that we didn't do it. What volved in your process and thinking of your time from when you first got the williams to today you know. I think i'm a lot more comfortable taking risk. I mentioned that a third of our managers are for time finder day when investor. And if you ask me in two thousand and six. When i first got here i would be like. There's no way we're doing that. And now i'm a lot more comfortable with that risk and can see you know ten years from now why you wanna be with that person today and it doesn't always work out but i'm much more comfortable with that kind of risk meeting somebody and having a few meetings with them and understanding what they're doing and yeah let's take that risk and sometimes it makes my team crazy. I think because you know. I'm ready to step off that cliff before they are but that's probably for me percent. Probably the biggest difference. The whole world of technology keeps innovating and a lot of different ways and some ways asset management is a late mover. Curiously how you thought about innovation in your process when so much of it is built on long term relationships with great managers. Stay the course. I don't know if we're like the thought leaders on innovation. We did one thing that was innovative dot and saved us. A lot of money and headaches is we moved away from a custodian hired an administrator. Which at the time we did it. Nobody had done that in the dhamma world and not very many people have done it since then but we got so crazy about not being able to understand what our managers were doing for twenty or thirty days after the end of the month and so we went with an administrator and it's made a huge difference in how we look at the portfolio and can manage the portfolio and understand what our managers are doing it sort of like the plumbing underneath at all. We just tried to simplify slash expensive. I don't think that's what you're asking about but You know it was. It was something that made a big difference for us and our team and where we spend our time so when you think about how you allocate your time and how important that is because he never have enough of it. But i don't know if we're like the the bleeding edge of innovation with regard to how we look for manager or analyze a manager. I know it people on your team teach this winter. Study every year at williams. What is that curriculum. Look like oh my god. That is like one of the best parts of the years when her study. And it's really sad because we're not doing winter study this year. We are doing something called the winter experience but winner. Study is a month of the year at williams. That students can take one. Course and it. They're encouraged take something. That's not related to their major. Yeah i think it's all pass fail so people take knitting and winemaking and cartoons and stuff like that and so we started teaching winter. Study eight or ten years ago and we started off bringing two or three students to boston and having them work in our office five days a week then we realized that we could have more students involved if we didn't on campus so we do it on campus and we basically do endowment management one. Oh one they read david swanson's book they learn what an asset class says somebody different from the team as their everyday talking about. This is what a hedge fund is. This is what private equity is. Our provost. who's fantastic comes in and talks about the finances of the college and how the endowments supports it when you think that the majority of kids at williams around financial aid so they leave at the end of that month of january understanding. Why what we do is so important to what they're able to do it williams and it's just fun. It's fun to get to be with the students. But in our summer programs winter study and our full-time analysts. we have a huge alumni. Base for williams. That's close to one hundred kids who have worked in our various programs and they're all out in world doing different stuff a lot of them in the investment world which is great coming out of a small liberal arts school that doesn't have anything business or accounting or anything like that but these kids come out and they learn how to think critically and write and make an argument and put a mosaic of things together. And and that's what investing is right. So i keep telling these guys. You are the most well suited for investing investment management. You don't need to go to work or someplace like that. You guys have got it all going on here so anyway. Winter study is really fun. It's really cold and dark and williamstown in january and the other thing that we've done that's been a great success is. We've brought some of our managers to williamstown and they talk about what they do and they'll talk about a stock and the students will get some materials ahead of time and they'll have to talk about. Would they invest or would they short whatever testing if you make it this far each week. You're probably ready for the closing questions. but wait. there's more if you sign up for a premium membership. You can access our premium fee which includes an additional set of closing questions each week and removes all the ads from the show including this little pitch to subscribe hop onto the website to sign up. Thanks and let's get on with it all right it it. Let's turn to a couple of closing questions and go on with it. What's your favorite hobby activity. Outside of work and family. I would say the one thing that i really do. Pretty religiously now is make sure i get exercise. And he favorite form hiking running my husband and i work with a trainer together and we love it so much that we bought our own sled and we have a bunch of we have medicine ball and a bunch of other stuff and we keep it in the trunk of the car so when we are williamstown working out there for the summer we would drive around to different parts of campus and do our workout and people would go by and laugh at us and it's great great. It's something we can do together. It's a lot of fun. So that's i would say that's not really a hobby but it's something i like to do. What your most important daily habit you know. I would say the exercise. These jobs are great and they're a lot of fun but they're super stressful. Regardless of what's going on in the market going up or down or sideways or things going on with your team or mrs been such a difficult time for colleges you know closing we re williams reopened and has had great success with at. But there's just you know it's stressful and so staying healthy and mentally you know on it keeps you calm. And that's better for everybody on the team and at the school. But biggest pet peeve i would say my biggest pet peeve is people who lack humility and that's both in the investment business and in life more. Broadly i didn't grow up thinking i was going to be in the investment business. I wasn't you know. I didn't have my little stock portfolio as a teenager. I kinda landed here out of necessity and it's been incredible. I love it. But i'm also very humble about it and think. How did i get so lucky. You know i get to go to china india and meet all these people and support an amazing college. And i'm very proud of all of that and feel extremely humble about the whole thing and made a lot of people in our business who are not that way. And so i would say that is definitely my pet peeve teaching for your parents as most stayed with you i was with my family recently in california and we were coincidentally talking about stuff that we learn from our parents. That's really been impactful on us. And one of the things that i think was most important is to be positive and it was something my parents both were and my siblings are and and it's just you know life is so much better if you're positive you know bad things happen but you know it was kinda like always you'll get through this. It's not really pollyannaish. But you know the sun will come up tomorrow. There's another day and in what we do. That's incredibly helpful. Because there's always something bad happening. Our portfolio managers do what they do and you of just like you know what it's okay we're going to get through this and so being positive. That was like an incredible gift from my parents. All right last one and we'll turn to a couple extra for the premium members. What life lesson have you learned that you wish you knew a lot earlier in life. I think it's sort of tied to what we were just talking about. Which was when something bad happens. It's gonna be okay. You're going to get through it. And when i was younger it would just be so upsetting and you know you kind of get caught up in the drama of it being upsetting. And i think i wish i'd learned much younger that it's like you know it's okay. It's all going to be good. This isn't going so well right now but it's all going to be fine and you. I wish i. When i was forty that i had the confidence and the understanding of that. But i don't know how you get that life lesson any earlier than learning in overtime. Cohen has been great. Thank you so much. thank you ted. This has been so fun so much less scary than i thought it was gonna be. Thanks for listening to this episode. I hope you found a nugget or two to take away. Apply in your besting and your life. If you'd like what you heard. Please tell a friend. And maybe even writer review on i tunes. You'll help others. Discover the show. And i thank you for it. Have a good one and cnx dot.

williams lucent colette boston joe rice Chilton massachusetts williamstown new jersey Tom new jersey lucent south williams investment committee goldman marty shapiro san francisco williams club
THE WITCHS HEART with Genevieve Gornichec

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53:04 min | Last month

THE WITCHS HEART with Genevieve Gornichec

"Just a little love note to all of our loyal free cookie listeners. Into anyone who might be new to the show this is an ad free podcast and we wanna keep it that way. We wanna make sure that we can just give you guys the awesome content the great interviews and stuff that you have to fast forward but in to do that we need your support so if you could join us over at patriotair dot com forward slash free cookies and become a patron of the show. There are many tears that you can join. You can throw a dollar. You can do five and it turns out. We're going to start putting some content up for those of you who are hard core reporters. We're going to make this worth your wild. So if there's some of you out there who just listen to the show and you feel like hey you know what i could. I could spend two three bucks a month. Great if you guys needle something as incentive. We're going to put some videos up on patron that are going to be exclusive to those of you. Who are free cookie monster's and when we're talking some good content like i'm gonna take you inside my sneaker closet like that kind of content you know and i will contribute recipes and perhaps every now and then our dog will give you so ugly so again monologue tree on dot com forward slash free cookies. Thank you thanks. I'm gathering muted. And i'm kate fagan. Cookies cameras podcast filled with thoughtful conversations an offering delicious takeaways today the month of now meeting. We have been here in a while. It has been months. It's been hot. Many things have happened show. Many things have happened. This is not a news podcast. We won't take you through all of the things that happened in the last three months but no rest assured they happened. Then we're back. We're back four season of free cookies. Right i'd seasons if we had to pinpoint what season is this. I i was going to say four. What would you say oh producers zinc anyway by the way you were you going to say other than three or five. That was made four so outlandish i was gonna say x. Really okay we. We've taken some intermissions which it's true. It depends what was a halftime of one season versus like the actual off season. You know yeah you're right center and we just needed a little break and this air quotes season and probably going to be dropping sometimes once we sometimes twice a month because it turns out once a week as a hustle. It's a lot of producer lindsay in our house and we love producer lindsay. Because she shows up when she brings us copy cake which is up on her patriot on right now so if you want some rumble life all right but today today we are. We have returned and we are continuing with bringing on amazing authors of novels nonfiction. This season season four because he's just interesting people who don't books and sometimes we will have those people so this thing happens during the offseason of free cookies even during the season of free cookies. Where if something funny or not funny happens but i think that we need to talk about it. Alright it in a little note app in my phone and catherine often forgets that. I've written these things down even though at the time i'm like oh my god write that down in the notes app so she knows that i have recorded it but then she forgets a couple of months later. So i've got a few of those that they need to share with you with the first thing that happened during this particular. Offseason was that about two or three weeks ago. We were eating dinner on the couch. Which tends to happen during coronavirus pandemic and catherine turned to me. She suggested this. We once went to a museum where there was a video was about world war two and is about the holocaust and there was this anecdote about how the i think it was two sisters. Were there together and that every day's rations split fifty fifty like to the could get there and fifty fifty and it was imperative to each one. Whoever took the took rations take more than their. And this is catherine said. She meant it seriously that she thought that i would take more than my share. We'll look y'all we're sitting on. The couch to theaters with our bulls hiked up on our chest so that the space between bull and mouth is minimal and as small as possible. Notice the side. I that you're giving me because kate tense. Eat her dinner much faster than eat my dinner. So i still have portions rations. Whatever you wanna call it. And i see you every time. My fork pauses and it hesitates. There's this long drawn out stare into the contents of and when the forecast goes back to the bowl into my mouth there. Is this good inexplicable disappointment. That washes. you're eating. You're continuing to eat your food that if you didn't continue to eat your food it could become my food. Yeah but you're also the human. The after i make like the perfect proportions plate you be line to the stove and you take the wooden spoon and you proceed to shovel mouthfuls of whatever i haven't garnished or seasons like into your mouth because you're worried that there's not going to be enough food in the bowl for when we turn into sea otters this this particular question in this particular question in a that is actually plays into my mind the lot after after going to this museum and seeing this video embedded itself in my mind about because the question that this video was asking was. What kind of person would you be. And i'm being i'm being serious. This is not funny. I genuinely think about this a lot. Would i be someone who would be capable of splitting everything fifty fifty or would i be someone out for my own survival hot sauce on it or would they be bland because i think if it was just like plain white right see buick but if it was perfectly season with the little miyoko butter and a little local hot us. I don't think i would be getting fifty percent if i couldn't see what it looked like before. Atlanta okay so the next one that i had written down then this is. This is really where it gets pretty funny so last week last week we were we were joking about how sometimes are there are groups of friends who when you pass by them at a dinner table. It doesn't really sound like they're talking about anything and that maybe they're talking about like lip gloss or something and i'm and we were joking about lip gloss and the topic of lip gloss and how silly it would be to have a whole conversation about lip gloss and i'm saying this and then you paused in you said and i said i mean how interesting is lip gloss even and you said i actually gave a presentation on gloss in high school. Can you didn't follow up at the time. Because you said you said something like twenty eight flavors of lip gloss was this flavors you need to learn you you should. It would be wise to maybe learned the difference between lip balm and lip gloss. And if you had been part of my presentation you would understand the difference between lipstick lip. Balm lip gloss chapstick. Technically we don't act. Like i don't know the difference between all of those things and i think a little gloss that we both really like and you always ask for that lip balm and it's not a lip balm lip gloss lip balm and chapstick very similar true but lip balm can also come in a little. I think chapstick jar chapstick is like a brand and then lip balm is like birds. bees is. we're we're even get into to the basics because you do regularly confuse lip gloss lip balm so embarrassed or me when avance. I'm just actually kind of excited to say this on the air. I'm so yeah. No i was in high school and i used to have quite the collection of bombs and lipsticks and glosses. Over at my best friend's house and eggers. I somehow decided to dump on my bag out and their living room entered. Ad was appalled at the amount of lipstick and lip balm and glass that i had and so i proceeded to put them into different groups and orders and explain why they all had their individual place in my bag and to this day. It is one of the finest memories in the acres and informative. I think so. I think i sold a lot of glasses that day. So funny that you explain that because in my mind you had poster board and it was a school presentation so at least it was only sort of an impromptu family presentation okay and this is this is really the best one okay so we were out for a walk a couple of weeks ago and we're walking around her little neighborhood and a woman walks by and she has a baby and the baby is in a baby. Bjorn and she's got a little baby and the baby bjorn and you say to me i want that and i'm like a baby and you were like not being a bjorn and i was like wow. I actually don't know how. I got duped that because like i obviously kind of knew you didn't mean the baby but just like your delivery was perfect. I would want to be outward facing. Or i don't need to be tucked into someone's chest i just wanted to be outward- busy. Earning the world. There's no doubt that the best way to be baby. Bjorn is our facing. I mean the other way just looks boring. The inside is all schnookered time for the snuggie inward facing baby warning. If you're filed out if it was nighttime and i was a baby i would. I would be like pulled me inside. Buffets me inside but during the day especially if you were out in new city or something. I'd wanna be the outward facing baby bjorn. that's right but anyway. So i said i said you said i want that and i was like a baby and know you're so let's just let that rest. Do you think that genevieve is super excited about this. This is the perfect intro for cast. And when i say perfect i mean not at all the guests that we have today. It is this month's pick for the inky phoenix. Which is my instagram book club. And it is called the witches heart which is a debut novel from genevieve gorna check and it is about some of my favorites figures norse mythology it is about loki and his children but the main character is anger. Boda which is the giant tests and baby bjorn and and there is sadly no baby bjorn. But there is bjorn. Vikings on the history channel. So if you watch a big guy who definitely doesn't sit in someone's pouch you can check out something related to this book and the opening number show on the history channel sorta sabotage sponsor. This show interest geneva. Gorna track earned her degree in history from the ohio state university but she got as close to majoring in vikings that she possibly could and her study of norse myths. An icelandic sagas became her writing inspiration. She lives in cleveland. Ohio and the witches heart her debut novel. It is so awesome to have you here on three cookies. I am so excited to have the witches heartbe inky phoenix's february pick and my friend of ours recommended this at because i am a huge fan of norse mythology. And there's not enough books like yours in the world is my opinion on this and so could you just give our readers on our readers. So my brain's all over will become bill. We will become haters. Can you give our listeners. Like a little elevator. Pitch about the bullet-ridden l. i. Such a thing to throw a you but just so they can kind of get idea Which is heart is a novel that reimagined norse mythology But places a minor character at the center the giant unger boda who is only known from the months as the mother of hell ferrier guns Three very unique creatures by the trickster loki trickster odd oh wow you know. The funny thing is two years ago. If you'd said that it would have sounded like a foreign language to me but now that catherine. You've you've taken a deep dive into viking norse mythology somewhat because of vikings on history channel but also because of your love for it even before that so that made perfect sense to me all of that makes perfect sense to me before we get into the the book which we will certainly be talking about. Can you give me your quick take on history channel stream skip mike quick yes. Yeah streamer stamp jam or jam you know. I was onboard up until a point. They made some interesting decisions. Yeah we'll like well if you. I do biking age living history so anytime you tell me what you know in. Vikings first came out It was oh. This is like the most accurate viking age. Television show made to like so far. That never been made. And i was like a hawk. Yeah so i watched it. I was like Like i understand that when you're telling a story about like history sometimes you have to make decisions that will make the story work narrative -ly But i haven't been. Is it the fact that ragnar and rollo in the show are brothers. And actual history. They are definitely not related whatsoever to very important characters in history but that kind of thing. That irritates you. Did it irritate you. That the character of fluky was definitely loki. Except for they never said that. Drove you crazy the entire freaking time. Yeah like we're a thing with ragnar. And rollo like didn't bother me But the costumes dead. They're beautiful. They're just not historically accurate and i. I'm sorry. I feel like it's only such like an elitist jerk but like i only want the dirtiest one show. I just want one show historically accurate costumes okay. I'm done. I'll stop you. Tell us costumes. You're talking about the braids. Well so many questions obviously katherine. I've actually had like thirty minute. Conversations on our dog walks where she must to know. If i think that ragnar head could have been shaved because they probably didn't have an electric razor. So how would they get a uniform. Shaven green cut so the these details are not small for us now. We yes we care about our listeners but mostly we care about our own entertainment so what what do like what of those specifics. Really gulled you It wasn't like the hair so much. I guess it's just like the whole lake. Grim darcus static. That's like super popular when you think about vikings when really like big like diner closed bright colors like it was dark there for a lot of the years or a lot of the year Stuff like that and like armor lake. I dunno i'm sorry. No that's closed bright colors. That's young how i don't think of them as hippies. The vikings historical historical plan dying. Like a whole thing. But i like. I like you kind of just used what you had back then so lake. I don't know. I'm i'm not an expert on like the the combat stuff either But like a huge thing because they were super expensive. I mean we found plenty of them but like the everyday person could probably would have had something that used a little bit less like material because sword super expensive to make. Did you think on this podcast to talk about the nitty gritty details viking culture. I was not prepared. Like i could write you an essay on this but like put on the spot. I'm like sure. They just don't know but i don't know by genevieve. I will make sure to text you a picture at the end of this conversation and free cookie listeners. I will share something on her instagram. But for my birthday last year kate did manage to dig up not actually with their bare hands. But she found a ninth century. Viking ring that she gave me for my birthday which is huge and does not fit on any of my little tiny pause so she had a chain made for the and it's very magical little entity and so part of the reason why she got that for me. I love norse mythology. I love the vikings but the character of hell or hella depending on how you want to see her so that's for listeners. Who don't know what we're talking about right now. That is one of the three children of anger buddha and loki and hells exactly what she sounds like. She's the ruler of the underworld in norse mythology. And she i'm working on fiction myself and she's a very inspirational character that i want to pull into the series that i'm writing right now and it's very difficult to to find information on her. So this is part of the reason. Why i love your book so much that you took you truly characters that are so obscure in many ways. I mean maybe not loki in especially if you watch moral and all that we've got like odin thor and loki everywhere but you took these obscure characters like angra boda and and gets a lot of screen time and and so does the macarthur serpent but but hell an anger better. These amazing female figures. I just really want to know what the process was like for you to take characters that there is not much written about and flush them out into these truly gorgeous characters in your novel so it all started like when i took a nurse mythology class in college that i wrote my term paper in that class about unger boda unlike her connections with a bunch of other mysterious female figures in the mythology and connections i mean very tenuous connections unlike unlike attributes or associations that they have in common so what. I end up doing connecting her to like all of these other women like i mentioned in the which is hard like hero. Can his la like all these. These like creepy women that we don't necessarily know a about and i was like well. What if they were all one person and then the the problem became in the story is like okay so i just gave this one woman all of this power. Like what kind of person would she have to be to not use that power to change the outcome of everything totally totally. And am i saying that right. Google vague big and let me like all of my pronunciations are like i mean anglicized still like. There's no wrong way this figure by enough it'll make it seem real That character which is basically the which that it seems like you merged with anger buddha. Is that another kind of obscure character from norse mythology or is that something that we could all go down the rabbit hole on a another obscure hair shows up like i know. I know. i'm sorry. That's the whole problem a problem. That's a good thing because your book is out in the world and so people are going to want to pick it up and understand the source. That's that's a good place. That's a lot of pressure but no she's from like one stanza one one stanza in in one poem in the poetic edda. We know literally nothing else about her But just by her name meaning like gold loss like she's been associated with freya but i thought like wouldn't it be cool if she wasn't fair and there's a nod to that kind of at the beginning of the which is heart where scott these lake. Yeah like. they're saying this which we'll talk. Say to odin and they think she spray honorable just like good. Let them think that. Leave me alone because you're so immersed and fell in love with norse mythology did did you. Did you ever start to see it as a religion. Not for yourself but think of it as how people who lived at that time period would have seen it as like these were real answers to real questions that they had about the world around them like these were the answers to pressing questions about. Why the sikhs why. This guy exists in the same way that we have modern religion. And they're still answering or trying to answer our unknowns. So did you think do you ever think of it as a religion and how do you think of it in. How does it shape how you think of modern religions like i personally don't just because of like my my own hangups religion and my trying to figure out my own spirituality on but i know many many many many people who do who are norse pagans or heathens and Like how that shapes their role view. I've got the chance to talk to many many many of these people because they're my friends. They are all over viking reenactment. So you get this really unique perspective on leg to me like you know i feel a close connection with all of these characters but like there are people who do you know like are devoted stem lake here and now and it's just super interesting but as far as like back then like in the viking age is kind of hard to say only because what we know of them it sets been written down Was written down late. Two hundred years after the viking age by the christian ancestors of the pagans who actually did worship these gods so There's like an extra level of bias to unpack there. We'll try to say. Oh well this is what the vikings believed with the modern day. Practitioners these norse pagans. You're talking about a curiosity always had because in if you follow a nurse mythology probably heard the word ragnarok or if you if you like the hemsworth so you probably have heard of brag narok. Radnor rock is the dawn or excuse me rather the collapse of the gods and so for a modern day. Practitioner did rock happen or for a modern day practitioners standing how this into modern science. I'm just curious because it's something that i've always wondered about with god's with greek mythology with north mythology. Like did they die off. And then did we like neil gaiman in american gods style like will them back into existence with worship or rate. This is what i think about wolf indeed and honestly like not to spoil the ending for listeners. But like i feel like the witches heart absolutely goes that route like like the ending. One hundred percent goes there like areas satisfying ending. Everybody very satisfied much. Thank you so much. But as the question of like rb living in a pre or post arachne rock world. I have no idea. I'm gonna be calling your friends and we were going to be interviewing the journalist style. We don't think we so interesting. We let the freeze. Viking reenactment pass unnoticed. I'm glad you brought that up so quickly. Can you quickly summarize what this it sounds. Seem self evident but i don't want to assume that you are actually reenacting either. Biking parts of viking or viking epoch clashes wars but we share with our listeners. Exactly what one is. When one is a viking reenactor through yes that is an excellent question because there is a semantic difference between a reenactment and living history and a lot of people do make that distinction. And it's sometimes it's just easier to say. I'm a viking reenactor than i do. Viking age living history like because people are like what is that well so Reenactment like kind of sounds like you're reenacting like an actual events likes of a warrior actors like world war two rain actors on. I guess it is more accurate to say that. I do viking age living history because we are trying to reconstruct blake away of life. We do like experimental archaeology and like cook with like recipes or cooked ingredients that they be found evidence for in late graves and stuff and do crafts and allow people do combat. That's the big draw But it's less like oh i'm pretending to be You know the specific historical person and more like what would have been like if i lived with thousand years ago more what. It is now one. Once when i was in middle school my family went to one time as no williamsburg williamstown williamsburg. We're still so you know what i mean not williamstown where the theater is no. No it is williamsburgh ago where people are living as if it's the nineteen hundred still and it's a town that exists with no technology past eighteen. Right let's say eighteen sixty. I'm not sure. And i got to tell you that there was a six flags across the street and i would much rather have been there so then you take it back another thousand years. I'm not sure i do. I want to eat this. Recipe that you are making yes or no streamer skip. Yes you do want to eat it. tell me about it. Tell me pichai well. There's a lot of turnips potatoes. Ten strong start. I personally have developed an affinity return a but that's just me you can really spice them up and then with like cheese. Yes so like okay. One of the people my group makes like turnips outcrop. Just like cheesy slice tournaments and delicious. Not necessarily something. The vikings would have come up with the alberton period period accurate. Put it out about five hundred hundred. Can you see them with potatoes. And they're like biking acts like. I'm sorry you're not on those potatoes juliane so basically not not necessarily a recipe that they were making frequently. No okay is there one that you know that they made that you could share with us a lot of stews. Okay go out. A lot of fish i mean. They didn't pass down recipes like guilty recipe. Book that i have is lake. People like reconstructed them and it was like. Here's a bunch of ingredients that were available in these regions. Here is how they would have put them together. Maybe make it taste good. We hope a my my gut reaction right now. Is that your follow up to. This is probably not a viking cookbook. That's my gut reaction feels like it would be limited at this point to a hat recipe or so hate the one hundred percent and there's also there's also the leader group has also like a cook like shops and he just comes up with things and it's just like oh we have all these ingredients. Let's make this random thing so there's not really. We don't really have any restaurant. okay we're going. get to the book. But here's aria. The viking living history is basically you just standing around not having anything at all and not knowing how but but this is this is a hopefully a comedic setup for you to tell me that there were certain tools that would surprise me that they had 'cause mussa be like. Can i cut that. I don't have a knife here. You have this hammer. can you know so anyway. can you share with me. What it actually is like big definitely had knives wanted. I know but sometimes comedy you have to really aggressively one way. Okay so there so can you. Can you share a little bit. About what the what you're set up would be around you while you're doing the living history so we'd have cook fire. That's probably the most important we have like a frame tense. And some kind of lift up one end to like make it into a market stall We actually have been to like. There's a couple of sites across the country where there's actually a viking hall and lake will like drive ten hours hang out there and it's amazing But a lot of the times. Like i'll i'll bring out because i do weaving so i will let crowded and like the the combat people will do their fighting and eat. There's a lot a lot of sitting around the campfire a lot. A lot of cooking of eating drinking and the alcohol is a kind of beer. Probably need i guess yeah. Meat is like super popular but Back then it would have been more likely to be like aol just because it takes a lot of honey to make me a lot of honey. So i'm pretty sure. It was more like a ceremonial kind of bridge everyday beverage. But that's just my my own guess. Well much to kate's chagrin. I'm going to take it away from the tools to take back to your book. And i want to talk about the character of scotty and so do you think it's fair to say that scotty is the norse somewhat equivalent to artemis or diana in greek and roman mythology. Ish like she has. She hunts on these. She's she does. Sometimes she like possibly like. I don't i don't necessarily correlating like the gods with other gods on because there are some major differences but like they do they do definitely have that same associations like the huntress and i love artists But like i see them so much differently like when i picture them artistically incredible different yes but yeah like i mean they're hunters. I just scotty and anger boat. And i hope i'm not giving anything away here but there's is is it okay if i continued you know. There's some tension there. You just say that. There's some really beautiful tension there and i do want to bring it back to how you fleshed out these characters and when you first start what what was the impetus of this book like what was. The spark was at a certain character. Certain god did you wake up and throw. Were hit you with lightning. And you're like. I'm going to write a book like what started all of this. I at the time i was i was in the class. A learning and getting more interested in this character mongo up. But i really really liked loki. Loki was just fantastic is fantastic and so i was like Low key book from the point of view of one of his wives and then it took over the book like it was it was. I mean never started off being about located. It was always her story as to how their relationship progressed on. I did not see that coming was writing it. I am a total pancer. Like which means i never have an outline. I just like go So it was a surprise. Will you explain that freeze to me. Oh sorry so i guess. A lot of writers online use the terms like panting plotting. Like when you're a pancer. You fly by the seat of your pants. You have no idea what's going to happen or maybe you. You caught a little bit. An plotters thirty page outline that they are following while they right and so good for them. But i cannot do that. What would you think it is about plotting or having an outline. They they rebel against like. What does it fill you with. I i kind of prefer like i love letting the characters tell the story like i just like i'm i feel like i'm just along for the ride. Sometimes you know. Like i want i really get to know a character and it's pretty easy with more scientology because the plots kinda already they're like and that's not easy. I should say the bones of the plot. What's going to happen but as far as getting there that was that was the surprise. What did what did you learn about yourself as a writer during the process of this book. Oh my gosh. This was first book that i've written a couple but this is my first ever published novel and this was an all of the taught me that i could write a book like a stand alone book because i been working on leg a series another series and i was like. Oh i'm never going to be able to write a book and this book taught me that i could write a book so we're not going to have a follow up to the which is what you're saying. I'm your committee mean standalone. I say so. What are what is your like routine like that has to be the same every day but generally speaking how is writing incorporated into your life. It's like it's hard these days. I feel like i do have a day job but when i wrote the witches heart ten years ago i was in college and i was writing like three in the morning. When i shouldn't be doing homework. I wrote in late. The first draft only three weeks. So late what i was a monster yeah. I'm so sorry that that's a good answer but that was ten years ago. So what happened using saved a lot has passed. Yeah I had been. I was keeping the richest heart pretty close to my chest. It more than anything i've ever written. I feel like it was like a huge part of me. I was so scared. 'til let anybody see it and like you know. Put it out there to kind of be judged or rejected. And i i so i i tried to get all of my other books published before that and that was my last one and so in two thousand eighteen. Actually after searching came out. I i would like you know this is i was like this book is so close to my heart. I feel nobody's going to care about it. It's just like some some reclusive which there all day and then Certainly came out and i'm like. Oh maybe there's a market for which is like so. Yeah that was it. Took me like you know seven years to even get it out there. But that's why it took so long so you had other books that you had finished and tried to sell. Couldn't sell right and then did. What was the submission process for the witches heart. So i always knew that traditional publishing was the way that i wanted to go on self publishing I have so much respect for anybody who chooses to go publishing because like it is my do it have to like hustle and they are just amazing But for me. I always like i always knew that i wanted to do traditional publishing and the first step in that process is you find an agent and that's the part that took me five years to even get your foot in the door is to is to get an agent and then once you revise the book with your agent on your agent puts it on on submission to editors who are associated with publishing houses. So that took another couple months and then surprise book. What was it about traditional publishing that you were so committed to being your path I've always had pretty severe imposter syndrome. Sorry not like vulnerable on main. But i've always been no. Let's get let's do this. let's go. i've always been really really shy. So like traditional publishing is like i have. I have the support network. Almost like my agent my editor like the publicity marketing folks like who are amazing like all these people who are telling me like you can do it. You can do it like you've got this like just to get to the point before the readers even actually have the book in their hands like to be like this works. This doesn't because i've always been such like such imposter. Like is is my book. Good like i don't know. I don't feel like i could just put it out there without getting feedback from a bunch of people i league does that make sense that weird because i think a lot a lot of people who want to be published at the big five or just like a really strong independent house. It's like they. They want that stamp of approval that they have made it through at least that over that first hurdle so that they're not trying to self published a book when really all the feedback is coming from family and friends and like you know. Everyone's going to tell you look great and then you've got this false sense but it all your ridiculously insecure about. It just seems like a tough place to be for a lot of writers. Virtually the conversation we had as i was cooking dinner last night talking about my so yeah we get like one hundred percent actually like one of one of my fellow debut authors just tweeted something about you know like the impostor syndrome like hasn't gotten any better after the book deal correct like it has actually gotten worse so it's like it never ends and you just kind of have to find the people who are going to continue to support you and tell you you know when things are just okay and when you should push back on other things and just like i'm just so grateful to have that like beyond words the grateful absolutely that is so huge and so for the people who are going to read or have read which is heart if you were to compile a list of Other norse related reeds for example. I always like to bring it back to. Neil gaiman because neil gaiman like what do you think about norse mythology. Is that something that people should should have or. There's the famous the tales of norse mythology. Really beautiful book. That's kind of one of those like you know embossed to readers. Yeah so. I mean that's where i get. I'm like who's the translator because my friends showed me that book i was like but who translated at be just because i like i've studied old norse in the classroom and i know that translations on i don't know if you've read like the the new beowulf translation like that's an example of how like nuance some translations can be on of the tra translations that have come down to us have been by by like a certain group of people and so when you get a different perspective on like how to translate things It could be really groundbreaking. So i i do like neil games version but i i was a sucker for american gods like i world. Yeah many many times the whole like the whole thing. We're like and odin as a two-man con. I was like yes. Yes that's exactly how it is. I just loved that part. So i love american. Gods haven't seen the show. But i do like game. Norse mythology Kevin crossley holland's norse mythology. Probably my favorite retelling though And i think pantheon. Books publishes that ironically. But i really really like that one. And then like there's the pros and the poetic edda if you really wanted to to dig into like what. The midst are in kind of their original form from the twelve hundred when they were. I read down. Do you think. That's more of a scholarly endeavor or could that be someone who wants to casually expand their their knowledge so that's a great question like some translations are kind of more readable than others. I know dr jackson crawford who is like pretty prominent old nor sky professor. I should say he's a professor. He does use you old guy online handle twitter handle. He does video series on youtube on youtube. Youtube video theories on youtube about old norse and norse mythology and all kinds of stuff and dr crawford just released like i think last year the year before translation of attica solely. It's out there. And i think that like people can pick it up. You don't necessarily have to be like a dollar to pick it up but it's it's really interesting to look at the retailing's versus the actual source material and you're like okay. Where did the storyteller this part. And i did that old lot in the which is hard. I mean like for my league research. I even back and looked at some of the original manuscripts. So yeah on the internet of course because i don't live in iceland. I wish but i thought i read that. You did either semester. A year in sweden so the place that catherine i wanna go once. The world opens up again. Tops on our list is for me. It's copenhagen but only because they have great restaurants there but is there a location or are they going to serve a lotta parsnips turnips turnips. Both actually sorry. Did i interrupt your it. i'm just so deepened. My copenhagen restaurant scene right on the head. Just going to say i have negative feelings about parsnips but go on to know what's up with you in person fucking there. No turnips are they. Turn up one of these or they took different okay. Is there like a really amazing viking. Norse locale in scandinavia. Like would you recommend as a travel agent piano as a nurse. A obsession est as catherine is. Where is the number one destination in scandinavia to scratch that itch on my god there are so many. Need your top one. Three is fine. It doesn't even need to be. You could get off the damn. There's that's actually number two but if it's like up there that's what we want to know. Okay there's the oslo ships museum in norway. Which i've always wanted to go to because i it just is amazing and i love like massive. One is inside barrios. Yes or two women. I'm obsessed. i'm obsessed. I love it. They were women who were very there. I have a lot of thoughts on. Viking women forever okay. So that's the number one desert another one popping into mind and we can take a little train over to denmark I don't know of any in denmark. i mostly 'cause i knew like my grandpa was from sweden and i've been in a couple of times so burqa sweden You'd have to take a boat to get to the island. But they have a brand new exhibit there and the re-enactors or they're over the summer. And i'm obsessed and i can't wait to go back. I got to visit a couple of years ago. Now are these. Re-enactors are living history. Sorry living history. Okay sorry. I just want to clarify. Because i know the distinction. Now so okay. That's a good one. Because i think both of them but specifically the oslo one because we could probably find some good restaurants in oslo to search for sure with simone turnips go see some long boots and get a cocktail in all of the same day. Well yes d. You'd be excited for this. If this happened you want to do this right. Go to oslo and see the ship museum. You all right so we. Our final question is the trickiest. Which my gosh wait. I'm going to warm you up with a pre final question. Okay okay bringing it back once again to the book you're welcome. I'm here for this debris into the but so the three children of logie and anger bora for listeners. We've got fend rear. Which is like the biggest wolf in the world. Basically is what you're saying. Jackman bigger than hugh jackman. Thank you for that hell. Who is the the the female ruler of the underworld and then you're among gunter. There's different ways of saying the mid guard surfeit who lies at the bottom of the ocean and his body is big in circles the entire world. We've not proven doesn't exist. Which could totally be in the ocean considering we only know about three percent of it so first of all for anyone who's having a rough time with their kids like feel better that you didn't pump out threes these little trio right but for you genevieve like if you just had to have those babies for the rest of your life. A which door would you choose then. Rear your manga under or hell hell one hundred percent as she's my baby my baby guy. Yeah it's so weird to like call. You know the ruler of the underworld your baby. But i know that you mentioned hell like earlier in in in our conversation and i just wanna make you aware if you're not already aware of the book the monsters trialed is started reading and i'm not done with it but it is basically hells like story and it's young adult book but like hell is just like a bratty teenager and it's from her point of view and she's like oh you think mom would have stopped after one like like. It's just so adorable. Young dull interpretation awesome. It's very like snarky teenager. And like you know like are versions of anger. Boat are not in line like at all but at the same time. Like there's a million ways to write this character is we have no idea anything about her except like two little mentions so there's a million ways the story could have been written and like you know none of them are wrong totally and well. That's a perfect segue to this question to which there is a wrong answer. What is your favorite cookie and now this if you wanna get if you want to get crazy and name some like random cookie you once had after. That's cool but for now. Stick to like the standards right like the oatmeal raisins the chocolate chips. The peanut butter's like i'm going to apologize for my controlling wife. When he you just go ahead and tell us we'll cookie from the standard list and then you can get a little crazy if you love a double dipped oreo peanut butter something. You want to add it. The one place but i the standard. I love snickerdoodles no-brainer. So you think you like snickerdoodles better than go raisin and more like an oatmeal chocolate chip like snicker doodle. Other people are just going to play my part. Okay and is there some fancy cookie that you wanna add that was so good or is it is snickerdoodles a fantastic answer by the way. So if you're going to stick with that that's cool to. My mom would make these christmas cookies that she founded a magazine one time and they were just like gingerbread but with like a reecey cup inside and i was like. Oh this is very good. And the same thing with like a peppermint patty sookie. But the outside was like chocolate cookie. They were just released often. Squishy and delicious So that's what comes to mind. When i think fancy but other than those special once a year cookies i gotta see snicker anon here. I was hoping that you were gonna say there was like some swedish cookie made with turn up honey that they didn't put into. The mead goes into the turnip cookie. All because can't stop giving me ideas for my biking. The follow up smash hit the which is heart. Got which is my gosh. Wow i n z mic drop. No honestly i think this could work. Let's call your agent. The earth is coming up in like you're gonna have to recipe tests so two years you need. You think that sounds about right because you got to be to forty so long okay. Don't worry we'll let you down. Congratulations genevieve the book is amazing. And thank you for taking the time thank you. It has been an honor awesome. Care bye thank you. That is a wrap. Thank you for listening to season. Four of free cookies. However you want to the first show back for season four. This podcast is produced lizzy collins of and be radio. You should check out her new picks for podcast right you. Don't you have some great new art as well for radio does also check out her patriot for be radio because she regularly puts delicious recipes. You can support this show by reading in reviewing the show on apple podcasts. In fact since we were last on during season three free cookies. We've gotten three new reviews from listeners. Okay so jordan. No said really great. Listen no matter what's going on in the world. There's always something thought provoking the podcast is always worth listening to. Whether i'm familiar with the guests topic or not. Think jordan samantha. The nine mantha sim yet. That's probably more would. It was samantha. Than no no. No nanna samantha. Bananas samantha samantha. Okay she said one of my favorite podcasts and then a lot of other amazing things this wife and wife duo which i liked and then the last one actually from this past sunday from only mildly satisfied three thousand because there were a lot of other only mildly satisfieds before this particular one only mildly satisfied about themselves or about the ponca. Well it's review so its own inner demons that are coming out only mildly satisfied. Oh i always feel better. Having listened is the opening line to that. We're helping them feel satisfied. Not maybe just mildly. There's a lot of positive. And then at the end it says also can feel the pain and cates heart every time. There's yet another vote for chocolate. Chip is the favorite cookie at the end of the episode. He's fine she's getting sixty percent of the rations. Come is oh wow okay. But it's good to know that. Even though i always get upset at the chocolate chip it still remains fresh content every time it happens every single time. Even though i'm upset at the same thing people can feel my pain in new. Is that a tiny violin that you're playing playing a tiny tiny by. Everybody knows every free cookie. Listener knows that the chunks of raisins appear at the end of the show and that's and deed pieces of hail from the sky. Oh my god. Did you actually see the twitter fight between. What is the the famous racing company in the box. The the what is it. Get california raisins it was like. Ooh that's right. It was like national. Burn day or something. The other day like every you know it was like national like burn burn wendy's at messaged california raisins and was like is a startup and they basically were like stop burning cookies so it has been confirmed. Wendy's there will be no reason it frosty anytime soon. No there been you know collab- coming between california raisins and wendy's okay. Guys and like. I said this is where the best content lives in the final three minutes of the show. That's right current.

Vikings ragnar bjorn catherine kate fagan Bjorn rollo genevieve lindsay pancer genevieve gorna Gorna kate mike quick unger boda loki scotty neil gaiman phoenix williamstown
Jeremy Strong - 'Succession'

Awards Chatter

1:25:50 hr | 1 year ago

Jeremy Strong - 'Succession'

"Hi everyone and thank you for tuning into the three hundred thirtieth episode of awards chatter. Hollywood reporter's awards podcast host Scott Feinberg and my guest. Today is a true actors actor who has been widely celebrated for his work on the New York stage in four best picture. Oscar nominees two thousand twelve Lincoln for Steven Spielberg and zero dark thirty for Kathryn. Bigelow two thousand fourteen Selma for Duval and two thousand fifteen. The big short for Adam McKay and since two thousand eighteen on HBO's Massively Popular and acclaimed drama series succession on which he plays. Kendall Roy the second oldest son of a billionaire media mogul and for which he won the best actor in a drama series critics choice award back in January Germany strong over the course of our conversation the forty year old and I discussed his roller coaster journey from hardscrabble Boston neighborhood to Yale University to struggling New York actor too prominent and appreciate it thus spion how interactions along the way with Ian Home Daniel Day Lewis Phillips Seymour Hoffman and helped to shape the sort of actor that he wanted to be how close he came to missing out on his part in. Mackay's the big short which in turn ultimately led to his involvement in succession the pilot of which McKay directed and the series of which McKay AP's and how he very nearly wound up playing a different sibling plus much more and so with great thanks to Germany strong with a plea to our listeners. To stay home during this difficult time and further ado. Let's go to that conversation. Jeremy Thank you so much for joining us on the podcast and in Corona era. We've been beginning each episode by just asking are yes and how they're weathering this insanity so thank you start there. Yeah weathering it. I feel my wife and I are in Denmark and feeling really really fortunate to be here. We are in a small village on the coast. Denmark called field which is beautiful sort of discordant with time a pretty idyllic place. So we're weathering it very. Luckily I would say and also with a with a really heavy art for hand. Well I guess what I'd like to do now if we can. Let's jump back in time to a happier time. Where were you born and raised? And what are your folks do for a living? Well Oh good usually goes right into this sturm and drawing of Kendall and so I was born in Boston. I was born in sort of in Jamaica. Plain sorta inner city Boston and grew up there and my mother was a hospice nurse and my father is a social worker. He ran something called Department of Youth Services which were juvenile jails in Roxbury Tough parts of Boston. So I grew up with with real sort of humanist parents who were both tremendous givers and really empathic people and then we moved out of Boston when I was about ten and I grew up mostly in a sort of Very Bucolic suburb Summary Massachusetts. Well it sounds like you also spent some time. I don't know if if it was also for religious reasons or just for your hobby but it sounds like you were spending some time in a church basement of all places quite a bit as a kid from what I read. This all began. Yeah I think the truth of it is I think My mother was trying to get me to join this this sort of local performing arts. I don't know what it was. I mean I think I was four or five years old. So it wasn't there wasn't much perform going on although although children are the greatest actors of all because they they don't lie and they're completely in the moment so she sorta coaxed me into joining this local group that I think was called neighbourhood children's theater down the block. And Yeah you know. I don't even Scott I don't even remember it sort of pre conscious. It's stress. It's just something that I've been doing since I was so little. And it must have just clicked. I think then it was something you know quite simply that I enjoyed and probably found freedom a greater freedom in doing would it be the case that thing. I I mean I be curious if you were you know as you got a little older school if you continued with with performing because I do know this was literally the moment where it became serious but I read in one of the things. I was reading. Prep for this that there was actually a high school trip to London. That make difference. No that's right. Wow I'm so impressed. I have these great English teachers in High School of bill and Judy plot where their names and they were also the theater directors and they are these people. You know unsung heroes incredibly passionately. Devoted to the theater as an art form and passionately devoted to engendering love of theater and acting in in kids. And so I've been part of something called The Concord Youth Theatre in the town next to where I was growing up throughout middle school elementary school and and when I got to high school you know these guys kind of introduced me to more serious plays and we did a lot of Shakespeare. Pirin Delo we did we did. Sorta stuff that was that was quite sophisticated for for for being a you know a a teenager and then they brought us to London on a trip and I remember going to see Ian Holm play King Lear. The national and and it was it was a revelatory sort of you know life altering moment. I I think I remember quite specifically the moment where lear is like naked on accommodated. Man He was you know an home is actor. You know who's a gigantic actor gigantic seismic actor and a little guy who's completely naked. Standing in the coddle theater at the national in front of you know London Society Embodying. What's arguably the greatest play ever written and and I think was just something about it that yet just to me. I said well that's worth committing your life to if you could ever work hold a candle up to a moment like that so not not that long after that. I guess you must have really made your parents and probably yourself quite quite happy by getting into jail which is no small thing and I know that you originally intended to two zero in on this this focus. What you already knew you kinda wanted to do. But so how with that being the case? Did you end up majoring in something unrelated in a way? Yeah because Yale obviously has such such a great reputation for acting mainly the drama school which is a graduate school and I got in. You Know God only knows how as an undergraduate and And I thought I would be a theater studies major. You know because I've been doing. I don't think I'd gone more than a few months in my whole life since I was five years old or something without without doing play and it was sort of my oxygen supply in my life force and you know just sort of the thing. I was obsessed with and I remember going to this theater. Studies class like the first shopping period. When you're when you're trying out classes and you know it just wasn't I don't want to say anything disparaging but it was a very theoretical academic model of acting. And you know I'd never read Stanislavsky at that point I'd never heard of Meisner. I wasn't an educated actor I was a scrappy instinctive actor which I think I still am with with fire in my belly and and you know there were some voice in me that said I needed to protect that and not get too. I'm already cerebral enough person and I just remember this guy had like this long know Russian beard and he drew a bunch of the circles of energy on a chalkboard and voice in my head. Just said run. I was probably also to be to be fair ashamed that I you know. My lack of of of sophistication about about acting which which these other kids seem to have in spades and had read the books and and you know. Of course I've since read everything and occasionally there's something in you know in that stuff that that I find Epiphanic BUT YEAH. No it was you know. I didn't understand what it was and in many many years later I was reading a Michael Billington biography on Harold. Pinter and he had any any quoted. Pinter saying this incredible thing which was the more acute the experience. The less articulate expression. And that's that's for me that's what acting is about. It's like if you can you can. If you can articulate it or teach it or you know you can only really point at it when you're doing it. It's this intense experience that that that is acute but not you can't really translated into words you just exists in you know in in the work and so while you were Yale. It's not that you were not involved with acting anymore. It's just that you did it in a very. Yeah I guess underground way right. Yeah you know what's so incredible there and I was so lucky to get to go there. They have all these little theaters in attics in basements and there was a theater in my residential college which was called Trumbull. That was a squash court called Nick Chapel and I think my first year my freshman year there I did I went through like Pacino. Phase right did every play. Pacino had ever done so I did. I did the Indian wants the Bronx. I did Huey I did. American buffalo and I did richer third that somewhere else but that was sort of that. My first First Year there but I had a you know a pretty insatiable appetite it was also and I think this is true for a lot of actors in certainly true for me. Yale was a hard place for me. I I I struggled there and I think I had a lot of insecurities. They're you know. Not Coming from a background that other students come from not having the sort of hyper literate education that that a lot of them had had and so for me. It was It was a lifeline and a sort of you know life life raft and in a way of kind of transcending all of that and disappearing into something it is a great escape and you sort of you know when it's good you just get lost in it and and disappear so that really. I think I survived there because of it and that's sort of where the need comes from. I think I think you kind of have to have a need to do it in an almost primal way. Certainly when the going gets hard you know when you're out of school but yeah no I kept doing plays and I got to do some incredible. You know that's great when you're a student you get to work on the best writing you know. I got to look back in Anger. I to do Jesus. Murad saw I to do so many plays that you know when you when you start working professionally. You don't get to do those rules you know. I think I was eighteen. I did the video. That O'Neill play Huey which is written for like a seventeen year old guy so and and you know there's so much learning that goes on a just just the discipline of you know starting at the at the beginning of a play and sort of letting letting it happen so that that's sort of your your ten thousand hours now. Was it in that same time period that you sort of arrived at what I believe to this day is is your approach which is a pretty intense when You know everyone wants to just refer to things as the method or something else but your method I want. It seems like it may be as as you as Mentioned maybe bits and pieces from a lot of different areas. But it's intense and it's a it's a gut wrenching one so I wonder if you can just explain when and how you arrived at before we talk about how you apply to any specific roles later on. It's funny because I you know I don't know that I can even place it because when I think back in college I know I always approached anything. Approach plays with a great deal of commitment and seriousness. Because I just had an innate belief that was that it was serious and I remember. Phil Hoffman us to talk about it. In terms of you know when when you're between the lines nothing else in the world matters and you have to believe that and be that committed to it but of course. I didn't you know when I was in college. I didn't and heard him say that but I think probably doing all. The theater instilled in me a sense of authority Which is the wrong word. But it's a sense of trusting myself. I guess an English major and that that sort of giving this great gift of of spending four years just reading reading reading reading reading and I developed a real love and need I think and an intellectual sort of inexhaustible curiosity and it seemed apparent to me that you needed to do more than just Work on material of the play and more than just internalized that material you needed to surround yourself saturate yourself with anything related to it with the time with with the with the world of it with with anything that might help on an unconscious level. I think inform your instincts so that probably started then and you know it's a brick Brac kind of thing I i. I certainly don't adhere to the method but I guess by now I have a pretty well. I don't I wouldn't say it's fixed because I because all I really do is sort of follow the line of intuition and so sometimes it seems like an I just entrust that you know. Sometimes certain things seem necessary to create a sense of doing. But it's it's It's definitely I guess predicated on a belief that as much as possible trying to enter into the the experience the character is having an as much as possible. Go through that experience so that you can embody it in a real way. But it's like I think I learned a lot and copied a lot from people who who I looked up to people in school. People you know actors who I who admired and you know I did. I did go and work for Daniel Day. Lewis when I graduated from college as his assistant on this movie that his wife the Great Director Rebecca Miller made. How did that? Even come about? I I read about that. This is the ballot of Jack and rose. Movie comes out and five. I mean for an aspiring actor for young actor. What could be a more extreme? It was it was very exciting. Also Scott it was also very very difficult you know because as you can imagine I think I was twenty two and Daniel had been one of my heroes since I was. I don't know I'd probably was to eleven or twelve when I saw my left foot and I had a poster of it on my bedroom wall and I tried to be Christie Brown on the floor and you know and I'm not kind of completely committed. Camille Yanic work was the thing that excited me and inspired me most. So yes. We're getting a chance to to meet the guy and watch the way he worked. And and you know try to you. Know be a ham on his coattails but it was difficult. Because I wasn't getting to I wasn't there as an actor. You know I was there to be to assist in to be unobtrusive invisible essentially and that and that ended up being An incredibly invaluable experience for me. And you know there's so much I'm not alone in in in revering him. And he's he's he's one of the most You know wonderful man but I did learn a lot. In terms of watching watching what he did to create a sense of belief and and really mainly his willingness to sort of make a fool of himself south through the grinder feel certainly put himself through the grinder. But you know it is. It's like I remember reading this book of interviews with Francis Bacon and he said all art is a game but if art is going to have any value in this modern age you have to deepen the game and I think my take away was just to see just how much that guy deepens the game and doesn't spare himself one iota of what the character has to go through and and it feels like for the you know the summons got he would hate it if I spent this interview talking about this summons that you know what you're called upon to do is is to kind of make a sacrifice of yourself. What it did was give me permission to to say fuck it. I'M GONNA I'M GONNA work. In whatever way feels like Is most going to serve the material and if that means feeling foolish if that means a set is a very it's a very social place and I think you know and Daniels not alone. There are a lot of actors that work. This way. We're in a sense there's a there's a division between your social self and your creative self and I have a belief and a wish thing to only enter into that environment in my creative self and so anything that that is going to interfere with that. I think you almost have to go on airplane mode and kind of soundproof yourself. So that you can really focus. And that's ultimately what it's about as a certain level and an acuity of focus which might come across as being intense but. I think it's just being concentrated in a sort of autonomous way. Will so people an actor who's now working at the top of the top of the game and that's more understood and accepted today than I imagined might have been when you're you know shortly after graduating from Yale shortly after this I guess that's summer. Maybe it was the summer with Daniel Day Lewis. Now you go move to New York and I think right around nine eleven and suddenly you've got to pay the bills and I wondered. How did you hope to do that? How did you end up doing that if you ended up doing that? It's not easy for a young actor. New York No. You know I think like most actors. I think you sort of have to have an almost delusional optimism. That in a sense doesn't face the facts of of of what your circumstances actually are. I think I came to New York with with hope and expectation that you know that I'd be able to get an agent that I'd be able to continue doing plays that there would be some kind of traction that coming out of Yale. Having done a lot of work already and you know there wasn't any and I got a job working in room service at a hotel called Sixty Thompson. That was downtown. That was sort of like the you know Like a hot spot at the time and I would go there at like four thirty in the morning or something on carry. They didn't have an employee for an elevator for their employees. You had to walk like fourteen flights of stairs cut carrying all the thing so so you know so stuff like that. I worked a lot of different jobs. personal assistance to people. Anything I could do to stay afloat but you know I didn't always pay the bills you know. I fucking like found a mattress on the street. I probably shouldn't say this but like at the time. It looks like a nice mattress and they just brought it down and so I grabbed with a friend because I didn't have a mattress at the time. So you know it was real. You know there was a time. Where Con Edison? Shut my power off and I had to play at that time I was doing a play in a storefront on thirty ninth street and I think they paid me fifty bucks a week and you know I didn't have any power for a little while and in the winter right I don't I. Don't you know that might be an embellishment might have been the winter but you know it was. It was difficult and I think. Honestly it wasn't the it wasn't the the instability or the uncertainty that was the most difficult or the financial aspect even though was difficult but I never had any money. So it wasn't you know wasn't different for me. Is that these circumstances ever make you question your career path where you ever at the point where you were going to. Would you have ever quit? Well that's the thing it's it's sort of the end. Ville on which you SORTA Ford yourself and I think there were. I know that there were there. Were a lot of days and times where where I felt a tremendous sense of despair and sort of being in the Wilderness and questioning. You couldn't really imagine my life if I if I didn't get to work as an actor at a certain level which is not about success or stardom. It's about getting to do you know because unfortunately you only get to do the great plays or the great roles if if you have a if you've achieved a certain level of visibility or whatever and people know that you are are going to are going to give you a chance at that so. I guess I didn't know if I would ever be given those chances but there were little crumbs along the way that I guess enough to keep sort of a sense of belief alive and honestly just my need to do. It was overpowering. It overpowered the circumstances or any sense that things might not work out. They just I think I was. Just you know doggedly determined and hell bent on it and you know a Williamstown theatre festival is a place up in the bursch you know about that came about two years in in my in New York and was like a an epidemic place for me because I got to do plays again in in a community and be part of something and be part of that sort of collective sense of imagination and and and you know a thing. You really want as an actor. I think is to kind of break your own sound barrier. You want to travel somewhere that you haven't traveled before you want to go further. You WanNa reach as far as you can and you want to move the needle for yourself and so you can only do that through great material and and so I got to go to Williamstown and you know it. Was this incredible place. Where Edward and Arthur Miller at the coffee shop and all these great actors and directors from New York are doing plays on the main stage and and that was very exciting and that gave me. I think a lot of You know that gave me wings for awhile. And a sense of a sense of belonging and a sense of possibility. That's the hardest thing is when you sort of cut off from a sense of possibility which I know so many actors so many actors are so if there if there was to be a turning point that we could pinpoint. I believe it might involve somebody who you mentioned earlier. And that's Philip Seymour. Hoffman of all people late Phelps. Can you explain how you first cross paths with him? I believe it was the first time what you were doing. Well you know it was a it was a play. I was doing called a matter of choice That was like an off off Broadway play. It was about a sort of A sort of very urban kid living in East Harlem and it was a great great part and you know I had a day job and I was rehearsing at night and and it was it. Was you know it was like water in the desert when I got this role you know it was like nobody was ever going to see this thing but it almost didn't matter because it was a chance to to do some to work And maybe somebody would see it and you know. I wrote out invitations to a million people and tried to get people to come see it and all of that but there was a night that that Phil Hoffman and John Patrick. Shanley came and I. Shouldn't you know I shouldn't over over emphasize probably fills you know. He didn't say much and but I think he liked the work end and it was Shanley that offered me a play from that night. But I'll say that Phil Hoffman with somebody. That was all of our like hero. He was just magnificent and I remember him coming when I was at Yale. Speaking and he said that the experience of a young actor if any young actors are listening to this because I remember it helped me. It's this it's mostly inexperience of please. Please please fuck you. Please please fuck you. So that's kind of what you go through for ten years or so I was doing a play at williamstown years later took of play called a month in the country and I was really really at sea with an struggling with it and I remember we were sitting at this in Williamstown. And he's he said that. I to err on the side of going for it just go for it and that was you know it's a very simple but very visceral and immediately you know you know what that means anyway. So that was that was that was was a turning point for me when Shanley called me. It was a Friday night I was home. I didn't have you know I wasn't doing anything. And he had just won the Tony for his doubt and he had a follow up to the Dow was called defiance and he was going to go up to New York. Stage and film with Chris. Cooper do a workshop of this play and and did I wanNA play this part and so you know I probably cried. You know it was like Making contact with with another. You know another galaxy that you know that you've been yearning to to to enter and really from there. I just WanNa know that play defines was in two thousand six for you two thousand seven at the public in conversations in Tusk. Limb two thousand nine. Doing Theresa Reebok play. That's inbetween to Lucille. Tell award nominations in in three or a four year span is pretty incredible for new Jerusalem in the coward and so I guess it really did cascade some. I don't know if it felt like that. In the moment but it seems like that was where the the momentum really started also where something else you know builds up to this period in two thousand eight where it looks like within less than two weeks your first movie. Humble County comes out on September twenty sixth and you make your Broadway debut on October seventh in a man for all seasons. That did it feel like it was all happening. I think it did you did. And and it felt like a version of of the life I hoped for imagined. You know getting to play Richard Rich Man for all seasons. It's one of the great parts. We Franklin Gela get to be on Broadway. It was like the Holy Grail for me and humbled county was a film. That was my first film of any kind and it was the lead in this film. That was sort of like a director's were really. They were like Hal. Ashby guys and they were really influenced by five easy pieces and they were. They were trying to make a substantial film. And did I think and I had a sort of limited experience as an actor working on that there were some scenes in it especially that sort of Where you kind of have to risk everything and jump and not know what's going to happen in the scene and I remember Reading College. There's something that real cassette. All great art is the product of having been endanger and. I think there are certain scenes that you come to a threshold that you just know. You don't have anything to bring to you know you don't you have to basically you know there's this Garcia Lorca thing where he's talking about the day which is the spirit and he says you have to rob yourself of skill and security for the dwindle to come and so that's I think you come across these scenes where that is what is required and plays too. You know there's a lot of plays where you sort of just have to give up. I guess no so that time yes crazy looking back at it because that feels like so long ago to me. You know an end at the same time. It's interesting because I still could still barely pay rent through all that. Yeah no way you know on Broadway doesn't pay no Broadway doesn't pay yeah right. And that didn't matter. It was never money. You know I would pay to do those jobs. You know my agents more likely saying that but but you know that that feels like if you can do something that you feel like you would pay to do. That is very fortunate. I would just note that a man. For All seasons there is a good deal of backstabbing and power grabs. It seems like it might be a our shadowing well. It's interesting. I'm reading a wolf hall making my way hall right now. And I just read a passage the other day about Walter Cromwell who was attempting to kill Thomas Cromwell by inches. He was killing him by inches. But yeah there's certainly that world but that was I would say that. That was a time where whatever process that. I might have or started to work on. I certainly didn't want to interact with the other actors in a in a kind of breezy casual way and then suddenly feel like I'm pretending acting on stage and you know I read a ton of stuff about that period and about Henry. The eighth about sort of the tutors. You know the world of that and I guess trying to. In a sense create the dynamic that exists between the characters and allow that dynamic to be their off stage. So that so that you don't feel like I guess that's the real thing you know. Somebody said that James Dean used to sort of do a circle around the camera so bad there was no sense that that on one side. You're acting on the other side. You're not and that's the goal really is to is to never act and so so anyway so but but man for all seasons was a harrowing. You know that that role Richard. Rich basically his journey is the slow erosion of his soul. in the end of that play. Thomas Morrison's says to him. What is it profit a man? If he gains the whole world lose his soul in in in a sense. Kendall Roy is also about the sort of annihilation slow leakage of a of a person's soul but not to get not to jump ahead to that but that was that was an incredible time and I did feel like. Listen my my greatest. I always wanted to do movies and I always wanted to work in film and you know Daniel and and creamer versus Kramer in Dustin Hoffman. Nicholson and five. Easy pieces in Jon voiding coming home in Pacino in Serpico dog. Dan You know those were those were the things and so so the theater I think is is always a place that feels like home to me and I and I always go back to it. But there's something about film and it's not it's not the lure of it necessarily although there it does have a sort of you know Patina sort of surrounding it. It's the process of making the to me now but I find compelling and and and more challenging in a way I think we should say that from Humboldt County in two thousand eight began a streak. That really hasn't ended in hopefully won't end anytime soon. Because let's let's just talk about the great filmmakers and films over these next few years just briefly. I mean small. Part in our government's The Messenger the year after. But I know you you. And he re teamed years later with the time out of mind you've worked twice with a Lotta these people who I'm GonNA mention which is probably the best complimented actor can receive so there was both your while you're back with Daniel Day Lewis as his assistant on screen this time in Lincoln for Spielberg. Which must've must've been kind of a mind blowing thing and that same year in two thousand twelve as a CIA analyst for Kathryn Bigelow and zero dark thirty. She's another person who you worked with again. Years Later in Detroit. I guess here's where these small part like. The Messenger may be gives way to parts with great filmmakers great fellow actors in addition to the Messenger. Now with with whether it's the day Lewis or these other folks that you're with just As as the film side of things was gaining momentum. It was clear that you wanted to continue to focus on that screen. Acting was what you would hope. That would be. Yeah Yeah you know the the hunger and and the ambition was certainly there. You know I mean being in those environments and getting to be part of those films. It's funny man when you when you when you sort of. It's a bit like this is your life I you know. Here's the thing about acting which which I think a lot of people feel like I think in order to do work will you kind of have to stay? Perpetually a beginner and you can't have arrest on anything so in a way it's just about the next piece of work and you have to approach it as a beginner and and start from scratch again so. I don't usually sort of go back and think about all that but but it is to work with with so many amazing writers and directors and watching watching the way that Stephen Watching Stephen and Daniel work together on that film for a few months. Watching Kathryn? Bigelow direct watching vowel. You know this is years later but you get so inspired by by people and it. Also sharpens your resolve and I think sharpens your. It took me a long time to feel at home on a set the way I feel in the theater because I think I had you know have bitch waited myself. There's so many years of being on stage to get to a point where you're so comfortable on a film set that you know that you can be free because your job ultimately is to be free you have you to kind of not give a fuck about anything else. And you're not there to please the I don't even think you're there to please the director or the producers of the studio or the audience. You're there to serve the character in to tell the truth and if you can do that I think in an unfettered and free way you might please them and serve them but you know the that year I have been in. La kind of just trying to audition trying to get work. And and I was having a hard time and I got a call to go back to New York can do. This play called the coward which was a sort of ludicrous. Play about a kind of fop in the seventeenth century. Who was a coward and his father wanted him to fight duels. It was like Barry Lyndon meets the jerk and the whole I decided I went up to a house in upstate. New York getting ready for it. I went I decided to go back to New York and do play. I was like this isn't happening for me out here. Maybe never will. I'm just going to go back to New York and do do good work in a play with this with Sam. Gould is a great director so I went up and I started thinking that this character needed to have a voice. That wasn't my own and that it should sound sort of like a read or a wind instrument or something and sorta trying out all these voices in order to make the material work and and then and I got terrible review in the times when it came out but I think he called me. He said I sounded like a tone deaf. Castro and I thought I did it just to tie it together. I did that. Play an idea to play without him rap at the rattle stick about a guy wheelchair who'd been in Afghanistan and that was in a sixty theater above a philophical stand and everybody came. Everybody came to see it. And that was the thing it was like I remember. Meryl Streep was in the audience. The coen brothers or the audience. All these you know sent Mendis and and Av Kaufman a great casting director. Av came to see it. And she cast me in Lincoln from that and that was a life changing thing and also reinforced to believe that. If you just commit to doing good work eventually somehow you know have faith in that somehow That manifests the you know what people will you and your intention. Well I WANNA mention a movie that unfortunately I don't think it got much of a release once it once. It went out into the world but I was lucky enough to see that the North American Premiere at the Toronto Film Festival in Twenty Thirteen and your work in this really impressed me and I will quote someone else. Who really impressed. But this was playing Lee Harvey Oswald in Park Land about sort of just the the last days in aftermath of the of John F. Kennedy and you looked unbelievably early like the guy but also just were much beyond that and I will quote co-star Billy Bob Thornton. Who said that he here's what he said. Listen Man I was leaving you alone set but it excites me when actors come up that remind me of when I was coming up the dedication of being a character. I said I'm going to remember you. Apparently he asked you to and said this And I guess just in terms of you know there's somebody that's a colleague who's noticing the level of commitment that you I mean I don't think you were when they said cut you weren't playing cards with everybody else on that set or probably any other. I would say that actually that film and and and working on that roll was sort of the first time that I realized that I needed to approach it in a certain way wasn't a it wasn't an option to do it any other way because it because it was Oswald and because it is and because the stakes are so high and because it's such an important story it just felt it felt inevitable necessary to stay in that and to stain that character. Even when I you know I think we did some days where I was on the Gurney dead and I felt like it was important to just stay on the Gurney dead for the for the whole day to help the other actors sense of belief but yeah I think without it it was like you know it's serious stuff and and that was an also very daunting. Gary Oldman you can't touch Gary Oldman's performance of that role and and you shouldn't try to. You should try and do something. That is your own and Peter. Landsman wrote this incredible script than He. Let me I remember the first day asking if he could just lock me up in a room and then you know. I'm being into interrogated by these. Fbi officers and can you have these guys kinda rough me up and and and just bring me into the scene and just have the cameras on and let's just go into it. You know what's not rehearse? I don't know when that occurred to me. But that's definitely something that I am a big believer in not rehearsing. Which is what you can't do in the theatre but film. You actually have the chance to make discovery of a scene and capture that happening in the moment that it happens rather than make a discovery and try and perform to recreate it. You know you can. So so so he so he did that he lined the hall with all these actual Texas police officers. We were in Dallas and and that was amazing. And you know and just went right into the scene and and I guess from then on especially when a character is when carried through house and Mrs Talking Very pragmatic way characterization you know if if there's external aspects that are different from you voice body energy anything. I think you know. There's a there's a there's a there's a line in hamlet resets for use can almost change the stamp of nature and I think your job is an actor with a role like that is to change the stamp of your own nature through us so if you do it enough and if if you habituate yourself to it enough you can. I think kind of transform yourself and certainly that's something that I've learned from other actors and certainly that's something I've watched. Daniel do well so that was followed the next year with both the judge with Robert. Downey junior and Soma for Rene and with David Yellow and then comes two thousand fifteen where I've gotta ask how how this part came about because it seems like this is Adam McKay the big short You're playing the gum. Chewing numbers Guy Vinnie Daniel. Who is at the Hedge Fund? Run by Steve. Carell one of the few people your character who saw the collision coming and basically from that project seems to have I I I gathered. It wasn't an easy one to become part of. You went through the ringer around that. But that once you and Adam McKay did connect. It's a major wet. Yeah so much of this is when I look back at it. So much of it is synchronicity. End Luck and you know there. But for the grace of the gods go go. I you know the judge was a real milestone for me because that was that was that was a real role that was a substantial role that when I read it it sort of screamed off the page for to my imagination was the kind of rule that I'd always wanted to do. And it took a few months of research and spending time with kids at schools for people with developmental disabilities and and it took me going out on a limb in a way that I'd never gone out on a limb before you know. I got on a lemon defeat in the theater in front of a small audience but to go out on a limb with you know Robert Downey and and Duval visit enough Rio in this big brothers movie which was really my first big role in a in a film and I think there was certainly a sense of. I have to be willing to to make a fool of myself here. And just commit to this and really commit to this characterization really commit to my instincts here but doing that was a very empowering experience and Downey really really helped me with that in terms of finding freedom so around that time I met Dede Gardner who runs plan B with Jeremy Kleiner. Brad Pitt and Dede really is has been one of my good angels And she's the reason that I that I did Selma I would say you know she infringing Maze. Ler are have been my good angels and Andean and Francine brought me in front of Adam for the big short for a bunch of rules. You probably heard this story but it was. I've said this but it's like I felt like I in Monty Python in the nights Hussein knee like get each Liam just gets cut off one at a time and at the end you're just like a bloody stump But it was that thing where it's like. I thought I was going to get to play. Hamlet you know I went in for some big roles and then in the end I was auditioning for like a one scene where the guys didn't even have a name. They were called Maroon and black and was like the colors of their shirts and in I remember sort of really being like. Oh Man Fuck these guys. I'm not doing Maroon or black and then finally you know a week later. I was like okay. You know you consider me for Maroon. I don't WanNa play but borough us not going to go any further with Maroon But then after after getting to a point and I think spiritually this is actually very important. I didn't get that movie. It was unequivocal and I was and I was. I was devastated. There were a few things that I've been really really devastated by as any as every actor has been money. Monster was one of them and I wasn't even close to getting that part. Hope Springs Eternal but the big short was something I thought surely I can. I can do something in this. I can do you know and I. I've read ten books at that point on the on the financial crisis and devoured everything and felt really sort of loaded up and I had this really great meeting without him and then finally about a month after a few weeks after the last the final. No you know. There's there's a wallace Stevens Palmer. He says it's not about acting but I'm gonNA miss appropriate if he says after after the final no there comes a yes an on that yes future world depends and that was certainly true for me in that moment you know I had to. I had to grieve that loss and accept incense fundamentally that my dreams ultimately. We're going to happen as an actor. You know that your fantasy of what this is going to be like might not happen and will you still commit to doing it. Then if it's not going to look the way you imagined it would and if you don't you know and and I remember feeling like will. Yes I'm I'm going to commit to because I actually enjoy this in ONA. Just do good work. And then a few weeks later they called. Bobby Kennedy Volley dropped out. You know he's probably not not psyched. He had a conflict but But it was it was a it was lucky for me and and so I went in one more time for this part that I think no one saw me as you know in. That's been that's been a thing. I remember you know when I was coming up until people see what you're capable of. They don't know and they see you a certain way. Our they put you in a certain boxer category so it's been people who have taken risks with me and given me chances to do something else like Adam did and you know. And so he gave me that part and not also felt like I knew that was a big life moment. I remember exactly where I was. And and DD call said Join New Orleans and you know I am worked in a while when when that happened and then I said you know then I got to work and and and kept reading and went and spent time with these guys and I remember you know. Meeting vinnie recording vinnie's voice surreptitiously You know observing his behavior. You know he was always doing two pieces of gum and and well I got to set you know in was the day before filming and we were in a casino in New Orleans. I went up to McKay who I didn't really know at that point and I also thought man. I might get fired from this because I'm about to go way out on a limb here but I said Atom I think I need to shave my head and I think I need to choose to pieces of gum in every scene. And he was like great. You know. That's that's that's the thing about McKay. One of his great virtues is how. How mentally unthreatened in immensely trusting? He is in his in his actors and collaborators. And he comes from Improv. Which is yes. And yes. And is the Credo of Improv. Adam you know exemplifies that and so in in the hands of someone else who might have stifled that or you know It might not have been what it what it was but he really gave me freedom and permission to to to just gonNa run with the ball and yeah I mean you know the big short kind of changed my life in in another incremental way and then of course it led to you know. I wouldn't be here talking to you if I hadn't that if I hadn't have had that chance. And then Adam is. The reason adamant Francine again who put me in front of Jesse Armstrong and when inbetween just quickly. Noting do that. Second bigalow Detroit. You did your first Larkin. I know the second is coming up this one. The game. I'm excited for the second. One is to trial the Chicago. Seven will let our listeners know but but now as you say this sort of leads to succession coming along in two thousand eighteen and I was pretty fascinated to read that. It wasn't a matter of atoms saying hey you know you seem like you should be Kendall. It was more a matter of very different than when you met with him for the big short. It's like which of these siblings interest you. It sounds like right I go. I had gone over to Adam's house for lunch. And he said I have the script that I'm going to do. And it's sort of a King Lear Murdoch Media Industrial Complex kind of thing and I think you'll love it spike the screening list writer. You know give it a read and and let me know which part you respond to in. That's will do it. You know That'll be that And that's how we'll do it which you know. I'd never had that before. I've always had to fight to within an inch of my life for forever for every inch of ground so I remember reading it and being immediately you know it's like it felt like the greatest. Christmas present ever unwrapped you know because it was clearly a serious piece of writing with with tremendous depth. Pay Those and an intelligent send. There are certain things that I feel like I can serve and be part of and there's a lot of things that I don't feel that way about but I felt like whatever whatever my life experiences may have been whatever gravity I might be able to to sort of Offer and and and it just felt like this is this is it. This is kind of the thing that I've been waiting for my whole life without knowing what it was but that but it was apparent and then I thought I wanted to play Roman read I wanted to ask I mean so what was just because in hindsight it sounds it's fascinating to fascinating thought exercise book. Why why did Roman stand out to you initially well? You know what? It's a flashier character and on the page. It's a much flashier character because I've always seen myself as a character actor you know. I always wanted to play rats who Rizzo. I'd always wanted to play. You know it's like the character. I got to play in errands. Movie Molly's game. That was the kind of part I always wanted to do. And that guy was a real scumbag kind of La. You Know Viper Room owner should come back but But you know like who wears Ed Hardy and and chrome hearts jewelry and that felt like the kind of character that I really wanted to to do and Roman felt like this. Bon vivant prick that I thought. Oh this is something I haven't done before and and this this feels exciting and and he said great and so I went for about two months thinking that that it was my part and then I got a call saying You know we we hate to tell you this. But they've offered your part to cure culkin who I guess self submitted a tape and they loved it and I wrote to Adam. I WAS PRETTY. I was pretty. Ptsd yeah and Adam said managed. I I'm so sorry I should never told you you. You could have whatever you wanted. It wasn't my place and you know Jesse just isn't really familiar with your work. Doesn't know you but he thinks that you might be right for the lead of the show but you have to come in and read for it so you know. I didn't think I would get it because I I I. I was up against a very much more established very formidable talented actor. You know who who was more well known than me and all that but there was just you know it felt very alive in the room. I felt like I was prepared enough. And you know at a certain point in the beginning I think when you have everything to prove auditions or very terrifying thing because you just feel you do you feel a sense of. Everything's on the line. I think that feeling is really anathema to to being able to to be comfortable in free. Which is your job. And so over the course of years I guess I was able to sort of enter into more like fuck it kind of attitude and yeah so it went well in the room and and I and I walked out thinking that that I that I I've gotten that port and it just kind of felt in the pocket to me and and you know it's funny. I drove away from Francis Office. Adamant Jesse had made a comment. Adam gave me an adjustment and it was just one of those sort of fluid things that I felt something kind of happened in the room. And I think Jesse saw the character and I felt. Oh this is where this character lives. And this is what it is and it had to do a little bit with going off the text and The sort of more kind of modern Argo and more more more. The Way Kendall is in the show I guess and drove away from the parking lot and drove past the Oakwood apartments which on Barham boulevard out where pilot season. Yeah I was eleven I was eleven years old and I went to stay there with my dad. He sort of like saved up all this money and like worked in night shift as a security guard on top of his job to save up money and we came out to La for a month. And I looked at the Oakwood and you know sort of failed miserably auditioning for things and I didn't know what I was doing but but it was kind of profound moment to drive away and look up at the at the place that I used to like. Make Bogey Pizzas with my dad. When I was out there for pilot season but it did you know it did change my life and it and it and I wouldn't have been ready for it much sooner. I think you know it's a heavy thing. It's a heavy weight to carry a show Daria show for HBO. And I think you really have to come to a place where you you can kind of not give fucking that and really just be committed to as I keep going back to like entering another space. That has nothing to do with what anyone thinks. And where it's just you versus yourself in in the ring and a real willingness to I guess fail or be fired or whatever it is and that nothing will get in the way remember. Conversation with Sean Penn recently who said that he felt like your job is in actors to be the your bodyguard for the character and take a bullet if you have a and I and I really believe that and so I felt like I had enough experiences working with these sort of legendary directors and in in in the way holding my own ground with them and with Erin. That was a big. You know Sorkin Sorkin and you know. He has such a sort of mythology around him. But for the part that I was playing it was very clear to me. The part was a very volatile sort of monstrous guy who was A live wire and I didn't WanNa feel handcuffed to the apostrophes and to being exact in the texts and also having learned enough about film technique knowing Aaron. I can get your words in there but I'm GonNa fuck around during the take as much as I need to in order to arrive at where it needs to get to to that extremity and insisting on having that freedom even at the risk of conflicts you know healthy conflict. I would say in. He was is a great collaborator and and I love working with him. And you know the Chicago. Seven is one of the best scripts I've ever read and it's been around for a long time. Spielberg was supposed to make it. Paul Greengrass was supposed to make it. Ben Stiller is GonNa make it and now Erin directed it and and you know the act. It's Mark Rylance and any red main. Sasha Baron Cohen and myself and Joe Gordon Levitt Incredible casts and that was another sort of You know totally walking the plank with with a very different kind of character and and was was just your indescribably exciting for me. I guess you know coming back just to the the Kendall Roy situation once you have the part you know that you guys are doing you got prep for a pilot which in all likelihood with this group of people was going to go beyond the pilot but you never know you never know Kathryn. Bigelow made a pilot with any red main. That didn't go. You know my friend Zoe. Kazan had done a pilot with with Lena Dunham. Hbo That didn't go. So you never know. Now we're not well in this case though you do the work the prep I know regardless and so in this case I was looking over all the great books about powerful media families that you have said you read That you know that it may not have been. Everybody wants to -SSUME that you're you're playing James Murdoch and I think there's obviously a lot of similarities but it's not exclusively that from what you've said There's even you know you've got a little. Michael Corleone seems here a little just a whole bunch of different different types. Yeah yeah well I just I guess I wondered the you know the night that you guys did. Your first table read for the pilot. Another family of rich New York people was on your mind and I wondered if they at any point. Also if you feel that they are you can share who that was and if they influenced your character or or you think the show itself being. You know that it's entering the Either at a time when maybe it's relevant I don't know yeah I think to the first point. The murdochs are of course a template for for a lot of a lot of the material in the show and they've been written about exhaustively and sort of magnificently by Michael Wolff especially and a few things and and unappealing James but there are some things in the groundwater from from reading about their family that led to 'cause you're you're sort of a detective looking for clues you don't know what you're looking for but every once in a while drops in and there was something about I don't know if it was James or Lachlan said you know they were talking about sort of the breakfast morning breakfast table where they would have the broadsheets of the newspapers and the feeling was that their father only spoke the language of strength. I remember being so struck by the idea of what if strength wasn't your native language. What if you were in a family with this sort of dominating patriarch primal sort of force of nature? Who's who spoke very effortlessly. In fluently. The language of of strength and dominance and you try really hard to and try to someone that in yourself and locate that in yourself and and act out of a sense of it even if it was even if you didn't possess it but you know there's a lot of little sort of dynamical things if that's a word like that that came out of the Murdoch books but then there's also the you know the red stones and everything that's been playing out in recent years with them and with Viacom and and there's the salts burgers mirrors Conrad Black and the coke brothers and all these families all of these different sort of dynastic families. And of course you know an an atom had talked about when we made the big short this documentary called born rich that he really liked by Jimmy. Johnson is filmmaker and one of the people he talks to end it is event and you know even the pilot is clearly about that groundwater you know what if there is a family that is at the nucleus of our culture with an amount of toxicity and dysfunction? That is sort of malignant and dangerous and poses a real in a sense threat to the world. I mean I. I don't I wouldn't argue that. The Roy's are that but some people would and you know in my job isn't to judge them. It's to empathize with them from the inside. So Kendall has grown up with this. It's all he knows. It's not his fault in a sense whatever his complicity is. But as you say our table read for you know when we made the pilot was was election day and we all went on to Adams a house he rented in Tribeca to celebrate. You Know Hillary's victory and then a sort of slow darkening and and sort of yawning abyss opened up under US and there was. I remember a sense that all of a sudden the thing we were working on took on a different resonance and at and a new sort of terrible resonance now that this wealthy pathological family had sort of ascended to this position of power and the immense danger of that. And you know and what happens when a family without much sort of sublimated aggression and hostility and competitiveness. We not plays out on a global scale. So yeah I do. I do think that the trump presidency has landed the show in the Zeitgeist in a way that it may not otherwise have been in but I also think and this is really the virtue of Jesse's writing that it's not a topical show. I think it's a universal sort of archetypal show that is as much a shakespearian drama as it is a you know a a contemporary drama and the sort of story of of succession and ambition and Internet. Seeing family rivalry is a very old story and Jesse is sort of camouflaging this archetypal story. In a very savvy. Very Witty Cellophane wrapping. Yeah I was thinking that another another question you might have been asking yourself at. The beginning of this whole thing was not just you know who are possible reference points that I can study but also fundamentally wider these siblings wannabe CEO. In the first place. They're not GONNA be any. I mean they don't need the money. They're all very wealthy. Regardless what is the appeal and I wondered if you can at least speak for Kendall about what you believe. That is well a few things. I mean if you've grown up in a way I think where you have had affection love and tenderness withheld from you. You have a real wound there and I think a profound need to gain that attention and validation in love which I think is something that really is driving these characters. You know. I've I've said this before but it is. It's something that I thought about a lot and still think about to answer that question. Something that Young said that we're love is absent. Power fills the vacuum. And I think that's something that I see in Hollywood. That's something I see in Washington. That's something you know. That's the real to me. Essence of the of the show. And also what makes it? I think so sympathetic. You know there's the Pathos of that is a very relatable thing. He's trying to fill some hole and some wound inside of him. I think what's what you know what you say about. They don't need the money that's right. I mean what what what they need. In a sense you know they. They've been raised with all this power but they've not been raised with any personal power. They've been raised with the trappings of power and with money which really counts for nothing. If you don't have a sense of power internally and I think they're searching for that and I think they're looking for it in the wrong places but that is where they're looking for it. You Know I. I have two kids under two and I was just reading a book. The other day called no bad toddlers that it's about discipline it's A. It's a fantastic book. But it's about gentle discipline and guidance because my kid is entering the terrible twos and and and and this happens when you're working on something everything kind of relates to it and you read it through refracted through the Lens of of Kendall and he was talking about children who are essentially abused or spank or shown negative reinforcement and how they come to connect that with love. You know an and in a way I think whether or not our father was physically abusive. He was certainly emotionally abusive to us and in sense. We're we're locked in that dynamic you know it is a Stockholm Syndrome kind of thing and so we keep going back to about dynamic thinking that it might heal us or or answer. Something a resolve something. So that's you know that that's my best answer. It's great answer. I wonder if I can close with just three things that are a I think. Hopefully prisonment of bigger picture that I want about that. I think maybe open up broader conversations about the show. I want to go back towards the end of season. One first of all where the sort of chappaquiddick sequence which has very little dialogue after the accident through the rest of that episode and then build in the following episode to the moment. Where the the season basically ends with you being. You learned that your father knows what you've done and you're now sort of beholden to him. I WanNa ask you about just the process for you of doing that as an actor. I I saw one thing where you had said that some aspect of that almost made you want to quit acting. It was just such a such grinding thing and yet it's also some of the best acting. I think I can remember anytime on your part and so I guess just how you approach that whole last. Few episodes of season one and and And why you've said that it was a turning point for you in a number of ways. Well to be honest it never made me want to quit acting because it was too hard because I felt like I went through the grinder. I I actually felt like I got to the end of what I could possibly offer as an actor. I kind of felt like an away. This is what you you hope for. I think you WanNa be you WanNa feel fully expressed but I I felt almost so fully expressed and that some tension in me but I had held. My whole life was resolved in sort of that had been this sort of Gordian Knot in the center of my chest was was resolved in a Cathartic way as through Kendall when the child in you know in in that final scene but I the feeling was I got I got another left you know and I think maybe actors come to that point and feel that way and and then you know I guess you go replenish and and something draws you back or something gets reignited but I did feel like a sense of. I don't have any where I can go any further than this and I wouldn't want to keep doing this if I felt like I was. Just as he says in hamlet higher salary not revenge you know it should be revenge so a crime of passion you know inactive passion that sequence you know. I always knew it was going to end with a chappaquiddick like event. But it wasn't until I read it at the table. Read which was on Saturday before we started filming them on a Monday. Cool in in in in legendary England That it landed on a just the magnitude of it and the and how harrowing it was and I had no idea how to do it and I guess it was. It was the only thing that that felt crystal clear to me was that I had to go through the ordeal as much as possible and sustain if you think of it as like a a minor keys sort of Screeching Violin Note. Sustain that note for however long we were shooting the episode and stay in harrowed place and so some of that involved some technical things in some of that involved the sound department. Let me play certain music from the giant speakers we will be blasting you know this Tender music like at three. Am in the English countryside. You know as I'm crawling in the mud in the water. I don't WanNa talk about it in a way that it seems like you know because actors do this sort of they talk about preparation in sort of make it sound. So glorified are important. I guess it was I tried as best as I could to believe. In the reality of of of of the circumstances and immagination Khanna takes you somewhere your imagination somewhere but also being in a in a lake. That's at freezing temperature for multiple takes again and again and again and again and doing just doing the physical aspect of in a way takes care of it. You don't have to do any acting. All I wanted to do is get out of that lake at the same time I wanted to go back in and try and save the boy and you know it was just one of those. It's one of those great pieces of writing. I remember a friend of mine was working on the Tony Kushner play and she said sometimes the writing is so good that it's like a set of magnets that it just pulls out of you. Whatever it needs to whatever you did there was. That was. That was unbelievable. That was the first thing I wanted to cover. The the second thing I is that that obviously leaves off that for you the actor now. You've got a gap until you come back for season two and then coming back essentially at not much further along in the in the life of the character knowing the hours later. Yeah and knowing the way you you get into your character and stay in your character I just I guess you know that you're gonNA come back as this guy who is numb and haunted to the point where he's willing to be vulnerable with his sister which he's never really done before where he's willing to almost confessed his mother where he has to be almost catatonic when his dad makes him go to the home of the guy who he had killed. Just all of this for you as an actor to have to sustain that during the off season and then come back and being at again. What was that like will? The truth is I didn't sustain it in the off season. You know. I walked away from it and put it down and I had my first child and I was living in Copenhagen and you know I I wind in a Guy Ritchie movie which is basically a a sort of almost like a campy farce. You can do these things in a in a tempered or half measured way and I do go to extremes and I think it's important to kind of enter into it in in an extreme way and you don't know if the thread will be there for you to pick it back up again when you return to it but but I also think there is enough sort of sense memory on a cellular level of of what I went through and at that point I didn't watch the show yet. I haven't watched the show but I remembered what the experience was. You know music. Music is a great trigger as well as you know. I sorta reread crime and punishment right before we started season to end and it became clear that sort of the directive for season two as opposed to season one was to sort of carry the weight of what. What does they ask? He calls the monstrous pain. That were Skolnikov is experiencing that separates him from everyone else. And so you know. That's not a walk in the park and not something anybody wants to do and certainly I didn't WanNa do it. You know I don't WanNa live in a place that feels monstrously painful and estranged So I guess by forcing myself down in Tibet place and trying to and and failing but trying mostly to sustain that and to live in that place for the duration of the season created in me a powerful need to get out of that place and to reach out so when Jesse wrote those moments like you said where I try to reach out to Chev or I have a need to connect with my mother. They were so pressurized. The pain that he's carrying and the sense of wanting some kind of reprieve from it. That felt very real to me but yeah it was a hard you know is a very internal season. It's like there wasn't a lot in the writing you know. That's what's so great about Jesse's writing. It's very it's very elliptical and Israel. Paik and it's your job really to fill in the writing and to and to think deepen it and embody something that will come across. And so I think this season was a lot more internal in a lot more sort of behavior that will tell a story in miniature in a way of what's going on the sort of inner contours of a of a character rather than rather than the outer ones. Last thing I will subject you to is just a question about where this most recent season kind of wound up. Where we're seeing Kendall essentially be what you'd like into the Manchurian candidate just going through life in a way that you know he's not totally there behind the is even and therefore can be weaponized and we're seeing the behavior in manifest itself in his behavior in weird ways the stealing of the batteries just to presumably maybe feel a little alive or whatever The wrapping for his dad. Just all this but it ends with Kendall obviously doing something that I wonder if you just I understand. You don't want to necessarily tell the audience had a had a see things but I have to ask how you justify in your own. Mind the what what happens at the end where knowing that his dad has some very damaging information on him to nevertheless still turn on his dad and for his dad. Obviously to react almost with being impressed with that smirk. I guess I just wonder where you felt. His mind was as as we as we leave the show at the end of season two. Well I'll tell you I give you my answer but I should also preface it by saying. It's a bit of a false answer because I didn't answer that question for myself in in in any sort of very clear way. I had a lot of feelings but I didn't WanNa pin anything down and it was different things at different times but I do think M my conviction is probably different than Jesse's conviction. You know the the the scene with my father and I on the ship before the press conference was written a few times and in earlier drafts. It's essentially him saying to me that I'm that I'm not a killer is meant to be the catalyst that that is the sort of like hammer firing pin trigger that that propels me. I felt like that was not new information to me. And essentially that's our dynamic and I know that he thinks about me and he says essentially the same to me in the pilot you know sometimes it is a big competition. Then I'm soft and Jesse and I had a lot of discussions about a lot of emails and you know. He's he's. He's incredibly open collaborator and puts up with me too. Which is which is a lot. When we're working. I tell you know I said to him that I feel like we're missing something that takes it to a new level of perceiving something in my father that is different and that is something kind of ineradicable bad that. I know that he's a bastard. I know that he's a monster. I don't know that he's evil and Nick Braun Place Cousin Greg we were. We were hanging out with nine. He was talking about the Miller. Play all my sons. I'm about moment in the play where the Sun realizes that his father knew about the faulty airplane parts and his complicity in. That just saw tracy. Let's do the yeah. Yeah it's fresh on my mind. It's a brilliant you know. Sorta piece of writing and the dramaturge of it is brilliant and it felt like we needed that something that would hinge and think Jesse will up at like three in the morning one night with this idea. Further for my father to to say no real person involved as related to the boy which had never been invoked before he had never brought up. What happened before and when he said that when I read that that was it for me. I couldn't see that or on here that and it forever altered you know whatever whatever altar of my father that I had been that I worshiped on was in that moment broken and something else came in to me and became from that moment clear to me and in a way I was freed from the Sort of Penitence and from the kind of playing possum that that that I that I been submitting myself too but also I found out revelation the power but I've never found before because my conviction was so clear and because in a sense it wasn't about me it wasn't about sort of achieving my own ambition the way that it wasn't season one it was about something else in a sense revenge while. I cannot thank you enough for this conversation for the show for it's been fun following your whole body of work and being there in January which seems like a like years ago at the critics choice awards when you were finally. I know it's not the reason you do what you do. But it's nice to see people recognizing the great work there and just really appreciate you. Thank you really means so much to me. I thank you thank you. Thanks very much for tuning into awards. Chatter we really appreciate you taking the time to do that and would really appreciate you taking a minute. More to subscribe to our podcast for free on itunes or your podcast APP and to leave a rating as well. If you have any questions comments or concerns you can reach me via twitter at twitter dot com slash Scott Fiber and you can follow all of my coverage between episodes at T. HR dot com slash the race. Finally be sure to check out the other podcasts. That are part of the Hollywood reporter's podcast network all of which are excellent. Lesley Goldberg Daniel Feinberg. Tv's top five. Seth Abramovitch and chip. Pope's it happened in Hollywood Carolyn. Giardina is behind the screen and Josh wiggly's series regular on behalf of all of us at the Hollywood reporter. Thanks for tuning in.

Adam McKay New York Kendall Roy Daniel Day Lewis Daniel Day Lewis Phillips Seym Kathryn Bigelow Yale director HBO Boston Scott Feinberg Jesse Armstrong Messenger Richard Rich Dan You Pacino London Detroit Williamstown Guy Vinnie Daniel
Cafena Express 02 - Tretas no Open Source, Tendncias 2021 e Larissa Manoela

CafeínaCompilada

12:27 min | 3 months ago

Cafena Express 02 - Tretas no Open Source, Tendncias 2021 e Larissa Manoela

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Rob Corddry

Life is Short with Justin Long

1:35:09 hr | 3 months ago

Rob Corddry

"Yeah we probably talk about the movie back to the future too often on the show i would say it comes up a lot and i think one the reasons i love it so much is because like a lot of people. I fascinated by the idea of time travel. If you could go back if you could change the past if you could change the future where would you go. What would you do. Go back before i would go back. You would. yeah. I have one particular regret. I think i would go back to your own life. You wouldn't go yeah before your life. Is that nurses nurse that. Because that's what i i'm concerned mostly about my own life. I hate to say out sounds. Yeah when you frame it. That way. I mean i'm interested in other things other moments in history. Of course i'd like. If i as long as i settle this one thing square that away and and Don't have to have regrets about it. Then i think i would like to go back to other periods. Where would you go back I would go before. I was born but i really yet. But what what am i. New year's resolutions this year was to be more present so Sorry i'm talking about. I'm going to reject the premise. Okay well that's right. i don't wanna go. That's very machine so you must be excited for this present moment of show. Sure to could be a dream life. Good you're listening to life is short presently. I'm your host justin long injury sweet. Do with always. Is my brother christian. Currently in present house embracing the president's going for you pretty good. You know the time travel thing. I definitely wouldn't want to go into the future at all. You don't have to not wanted to go into the future of you had access to a timeshare because it's scary and i wouldn't. I both wouldn't wanna know. I know what especially the way it might be happening in a bad way. But then on the flip side. If it's if i go into the future it's really good then. I'm going to be jealous. That i don't that i won't get to let the system that yeah i'm so l. in either if it's good or bad i don't wanna see it right presumably if you were there and you're witnessing that means you could exist in it now if you have a time machine. I'm assuming you can't just go to the future and live in the future. I'm assuming it's like sephora. Visiting situation. And past i wouldn't wanna go back to previous simon my life because i feel like that would only exacerbate any regret. I hadn't if i wouldn't be able to do anything about it anyway. It might be kind of depressing. Oh the west and again. I wouldn't want y'all wanna do is go way back way. Way way back in the rose born but he but then the downside to that is potentially dangerous. And i might get you know. yeah. I mean in any brighter in history. So i don't want to go the time especially with our lineage. I don't think we were like we weren't like Roman guard that worked from that kind of stuck and we weren't from a wealthy line. I don't think so. It's not like we would go back and be protected. But here's the thing we survived and our line however much we to look down on it from privilege. We survived line. It must have been a pretty good line. We must have had something that made us survive as a as family. Yeah certainly biologically. We had a something was healthy enough to keep going. We have two grandmothers who are one hundred. Three hundred four hundred three. I feel like we're sneaky people. You know we've we've sleep by. Yeah we gotta like we just like weasel out of team. That is not good Well why are we talking about time. Travel presently were about to hear from being present. It doesn't just mean keep using presence in some form in your remains to you. Then that's okay. That's not what resolution was about. Now i wanna be more present to a good one. Because the reason that i'm into this moment in my past is like you know it's because i have a somebody i want to change and that's not good. That's not a way to live that. Because i can't change it can't change to know what you want to change. Well i'll tell you later anyway. I aren't you more dying to know who the guest this. Yeah you it is. Yeah he is the star of a movie and a sequel of a movie called hot tub. Time machine craig. Robinson and hot tub time machine to adams gun. No close warm your walmart greg very warm clark duke clerk duke what i say clark got some clark. No our guest is rob Yes the great. That one of my favorite pals grub gorge from back in the day. How long has it been That i've known him fifteen years. A long time you met doing movie i call. It was originally called patriot. Bill we talked a little this. We've talked about this show more than we've talked about it to more people than deathly more people have seen it then. Who have seen it. Maybe i bet it's actually inspired some people to see it. I wonder it's actually not that bad of a movie. It's just a horribly titled movie. Yeah it's got now. It's taking chances if you'd like to take a chance and see no no taking chance taking checking chance yes i chose that name over some other contenders The plot unfolds characters. Do things wonder what's next events happen things in the present characters interact. that's good. That was a good one anyway. Rob is so fun doing that with him. And our frontier who. We definitely mentioned a lot but We just had such a blast shooting down in south carolina and and front of the show. Manual shriek yes shrieks and hope hopefully future guest as well. Nick offerman yes. There's an offerman out to him to to do it. Do you hear what i said. Yeah sony you rolled your house like why can't believe you came like what the viral anyway rob boston zone. Say the balderdash. I one of our faults he is ever had. I mean he is. Who's baldwin that unlike short. I mean he's so bald that i it's hard for me to imagine him not being bald. That's how long he's been bald in my experience. And i think in his i think the way he's even when he was talking about he's one of those guys that can like he doesn't seem at all right well. Conscious looks like one of those guys who started balding in the ninth grade as like the day after they started puberty It started going. Who mentioned that. They went through joel. Mchale he'd bought an early. But like i feel like rob was probably bald. I knew a few ball kids in college like bald. Hang it's But anyway he's obviously lot more than that's really neither here nor there. No no but it's now here because we're in the present that's right so Presently let's get listening to that. Was my resolutions was come up with better ways to say oh literally let's let's let's So so so. Lay your ears on this. You're trying to come up new catch for. Yeah introduced the so. Let me toss rob cordray Ear bomb on your right now. yeah. 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God where is a great episode of curb as i already that site that ever even the mediocre ones are great. But what were you. Were you directed that way. Were you instructed to play just super positive guy per positive that's all that's an addition was and it's the worst because you probably have gotten these before like they say don't try to be funny. He just so happened. That jeff garland was coming in right as i was waiting to go in It was like they told you not to be funny right. Yeah yeah don't don't be funny justice. And so i went in and i both really didn't try to. I didn't do a fucking funny thing. That whole audition. And larry was laughing his ass off while i don't know what like just the reality of what we were doing because it's absurd. It's yeah it's an absurd situation and it's it's enough. It's enough that your especially that character that like a sex offender. Yeah i like that. it's not specified. What kind of sex offender he is. Yes the cornucopia of sex offenders in the asthma possible. And you've played them all you've run. You know what. I'll keep doing it. People play the best friend so people you know they the leading man Happy in my drawer and you find different shades within the sex offender rainbow. That's the thing. Yeah in the shade of affects. Yeah i remember it but it's funny with that episode. It didn't really matter. It doesn't really matter. It's just the Positive greatest guy. Yeah you're golfing golfing to. It's so that such good advice. I wonder if they tell everyone that are or if was specific to this character is the kind of thing where you don't want to lean on it or leaning. I've heard that they tell print that they tell everybody that. Yeah but then you write. Has an actress like especially somebody who's known for being funny. It's like we'll how am i going to stand out. How am i going to one of the things i did in the would string. I was like we just did the scene where i come up to him. He comes up to me in the parking lot. Because i have golf clubs or something and i said what's your chance here and mimed a club and i was like your stance and i just got behind him. He was trying we and that made him last like not funny in the context. It's like have i heard he. He breaks all the time in which must feel so good. I must feel like oh. It's like you know making him laugh. And making jon stewart. Laugh the biggest rush ever. So yeah knowing. They're both easy laps. Like i'm not like still doesn't and then but my fear is that my instinct would be to. Because i wanted to approve so badly. I would just try to do too. I would just keep gotta keep going. Yeah i do too much too much but you don't. I mean that's what you're really good at censoring. You're you really at story you. You really get actress. You understand story. How did you understand. How did you come to understand that. how'd you. how'd you get so good at improvising. How did you come to that place. Improvising see that improvising was something that like. I don't know how good i was. Compared to a lot of people. I came up with look at. Ub at b. yeah. Like i'm nowhere near rob. Hubel era are paul scheer or ryan husky or any of the guys that i had like i was. I was the only actor in the bunch like behind that i went to school for for acting and And you know so. I learned to make choices in scenes with my body like rather than saying things. Yeah and stuff like that. But the time i learned if you work at making your scene partner look good worry about yourself make your partner look good and you will look good by default. That's so funny. Rub i i was just talking to vince. Vince vaughn on the show and he. He said he enjoys setting people up as much as he. He likes taking the ball. I totally believe that. And he's also a one who is really satisfying to make laugh. Oh god yeah. He's not an easy laugh. He's now no but he has like a kind of childish latte. He's a yes when he goes into the high register. Also just cut i on. Yeah it's joyful it's up. Yeah when i learned that. I was like no great the pressures. There's there's less pressure on me. I make my scene partner. Look good. Because i've always taught to like an in a scene you know to. You always have to get a goal using the people in the scene and And so that that that came naturally to me. And i also find it bleeds into life for me like yeah i always try and remember. This is higher. Because i'm still at heart on a narcissist. We all her. I want to remind myself to like do for others like rather than than doing for myself on the same regard i'm not always successful Yeah so as you see be a natural fit for you in that sense Having come from that acting world did you take to it right away or was it something that you did kind of as a hobby as a side thing in it what you waited for an acting job. No i took to it right away. I took it right away. And i was just starting to commercials. I think at the time like maybe yet. Just starting to do commercials select still temping and like right one foot out of the temping or restaurant world and this is new york in new york. Yeah i took to it right away. I was really good. in level. one and level two and then level three is why. Now you're committed man like you're on a team. You're europe forming every single night. And you're in your hat then. I was just terrible this late nineties rub like a ninety seven ninety eight okay. And that's around the time i think I knew nate williamstown. Had you had been at williamstown as well right. Yep i went. And i did a ton of ecstasy there and meet you. Yeah i yeah there you go by for some reason. I thought you would nate. Had done true west. Or maybe we're going to do true whereas time machine. Yeah that's a funny thing to do instead of drew s because at also like by agents at the time. When i he said i was like. I'm going to tell me agent doing theater. And he's gonna freak out. I'm gonna do this. He said that's cool. We love it. We love it when theater because it's really easy to get out of. That's i can't judge your agent. They would all say that sure enough time she turned out to be a great in his like. Now it's lasted and it's going to be like a. It's a comedy it's a classic it's called. It's a cult hit. Yeah so ended up being like a smart decision and the thing with true west. You can kind of do it. You can't do hot tub time machine again but you can do nows now. Yeah exactly try and get hot. Tub time machine made today that we do or the stage version. Now that you could based on the play. It was based on drama. The mo- airplay got shot that in new orleans right The first one. We shot in vancouver on st pink. Yeah yup And it was that thing you you read the script you think she'll be a lark. This'll be was that a surprise that ended up being a. Yeah yeah i so i got you know. This is back in the day when you use to get Scripts in the mail or delivered to you at night. I am bear and instead of just the email too. And i was a movie in new york with sam. Actually oh and it was called Winning he's in the winning season. Yeah thank rides. I was shooting the winning season. And i saw one of them was named just on the binder hot tub time machine and i was like a and i said i was like sarah. I find our next project together. Elvis know and he laughed. And then i opened it up on the title page. It said Hot tub time machine based on the incredibly true story. That's and i was like. Oh all wait a minute realistically different. They might get it. Yeah yeah yeah. That's funny he. I forgot in that winning season. Yeah i can't back in mentioned that so it was. It was shortly before that that i had met you but just to go back a little bit in the lateness of the late nineties. Your your dipping your toes into two smaller acting jobs What brought you do you see. What did you hear about it from a friend did just yeah. I thought it was really hot in new york. They didn't have their own theater. They were they were Teaching and performing out of a a five story walkup in a dance studio. Oh wow they didn't have a place and chelsea then no. This was in chelsea. But it wasn't yet they didn't have it yet and it was. I think it was called Studio arts doesn't matter. Bob but i heard that it was. I was in a sketch grew. I was in to sketch groups at the time. I heard that it was andy. Richter sketch group aired. They were great. It was andy richter scheduling. I was like. I love andy richter and i went to see them and and i saw ask cat and original. Ucb jon glaser. Yeah adam mckay l. Wow oh my god. He's the one reason. He's the reason that i owe his he was. I've never seen anybody improvised that. Oh really oh my god. Yeah i i mean. I knew he was good. I knew he was quick on his feet at just from doing little parts in his movie he would throw. He'd throw things out there like that. But i didn't know he was such a provided. No the yeah. I mean as a performer. I don't know about acting wise but like you know he. But as a as a improv performer. The style he was like ian roberts. I don't know if you know yeah. I know it calms machine. How because smells can improvise. He'd never has a bad seat that razi and I saw that. And andy. Richter just happened to be there at that show performing weird Add so then. I was just like i was fucking in. You know they were i. I'd never seen anything. Like what what they were doing. Making connections you know. That's what i loved about it. I love connections and yeah and and even though you had a background in sketch in some you loved. This was also like a way to do that without the formality without the writing part Rewriting feet then. It also like informed my writing a lot like his writing was a lot like it like you know you still every scene that they teach you gotta find a game and the game is that thing that stands out that you can keep playing and building upon and and when you you find it you relax and then you just play it and you add to heighten it and writing is the same way at least writing a sketch you know. I brought that to children's hospital to so every seen as sort of pushing the story along but there's a separate thing happening in that scene that is funny and that's sort of the game that yeah children's hospital does have a. It's like a hybrid structure of a. There's a sketch element in there on. The first season was basically nonsense. It was almost all sketches. Oh really yeah well. Where did that idea come. Was that borne out of ucla. Was that a totally separate thing. Now i was I just moved to. La had left the daily show to do this. It was at fox. Schick succumb called the winter. You almost shit calm. It was well. They call it the winner stupid day and you could already hear the critics like yeah the winner more like it's like calling like calling in sick on the back nine but yeah just not getting it and the whole story was about me. It was seth macfarlane's first live action. Now oh and So i thought oh short. Thank yeah moved to la with my two month old baby. Fuck ya well yeah. That's that's a safe bet. I think so. yeah then. The writers strike happens and there was no work. And i was here with a two month old and a rental and unhappy like popping percocet left and right just to get a little bit happy. I decided to spend my days learning how to be productive. Isn't it like all day with the kid. Isn't it like a two month old isn't it. Yes yeah i mean that. That was a lot of to. Here's a baby savoy. I mean nap time when you have a baby. Our mutual frontier described to recently. Because he knows two children but as the he loves you we have so much fun. We'll we'll get to but what you said when you when you have downtime. It's like did you find this that you get overwhelmed with the time with the amount of time and then it's like what do i do i'll watch. Tv for a little bit and then it's like there's so many things now. I have an hour now. It's like yeah yup. Oh it still happens. I've got a fourteen year old and a twelve year old that basically take care of themselves and headed like i still yesterday for the first time since march. They were all out of the house. And i had the house to myself Like walking through rooms. I was like do i think i need a screen door open now. Close it would i. I'll do this order a pizza. Hey oh how scary movie and basically just watching trailers for scary movies. Yeah it was a totally evening at never ends with. You're filling your day's learning you productive. Meaning like i was spending eight hours a day being productive learning about productivity at right while and and i did learn about productivity. I learned a lot. There's a lot of like This was before all the to do apps you know and everything and there is this one system that a guy named merlin mann had sort of made his own and It's called get things done. Gt d and he had like he sorta hipped it up and it was really cool. And it's all about just getting everything out of your head and on paper somewhere in or in a on your computer in an inbox like out of your head. So that's 'cause and make to make room for ideas and so. I learned that i read the book. I listened to everything i could about. It watched everything. I could got everything out of my head and my daughter pulled a tendon or was like it's called a nursemaid's elbow some kids get it She she comes out of the attendant comes out of its out of place. She can't bend. It's incredibly painful. And she can't bend her arm oak. That happened I took a children's hospital which is the least funny place. An it's like chris. Sach adams scared parents all over the yeah. It was like a tv show like this gurney comes rolling through the double doors with doctors over the sunni in chaos and an air flight pilot behind them a life light pilot rather and the only thing i noticed when i noticed was everything like gurney was smaller and like everything. The iv bag was smaller. And and i was like this is the worst place in the entire world. Yeah and the only you see a comedy in that. Hey on the way home I remember it was. I was on larchmont. Now is on la lucerne street. And you're driving near the house. And i and i was like. Hey this is just sound like a stupid idea to my wife like all the all the sexual politics of grey's anatomy but in a children's hospital and so that was that was never gonna work. What does she was right now. You're fucking pity of getting a job going to law school. Your gross stopped taking her cassette. What but you were undeterred. What did was she into was like your wife is i i i know a bit. I've met she's very do you. You must rely on. That must be a good sounding board. Oh yeah yeah super funny you know yes like. And she's gotten funnier over the years. Well she's exposed yes one of the greats. Yes but like so yeah. She's so funny. And and you get your friends to do it. Basically you write this thing now and it was like this and this became the mo of the show forever. It's like. I'm just going to surround myself with people that i love the most in the world. That are funny. We mentioned rob hugo. He comes up a lot on the show. People don le monde. He's yet. One like you said one of the funniest brian hassan. Yeah i just talked mall in the other day ackerman. Oh yes yes show like. I don't think people think of her. Maybe as a really funny person but she is. he's hilarious. Yeah really yeah So i just have been collecting all these people over the years and and my manager was like you know you should talk to david way about the sounds like his sort of brand of comedy and absurd his played very straight. I mean that's the way it works. Yeah yes yes yes. Yes yes and did david get it right away. Did you send them something to read. yeah absolutely. Yeah and i love it. I love that he loved it. You know yeah. I bet talk about a stamp of approval and it's still very special to him. You know i mean he. It's yet it's still very involved. Well we don't do it anymore but but he's not involved at all so he doesn't have. I guess i guess he has zero. Kiss me too. i have. I guess you're still. You're still not doing it either. Ninety w any involvement of if you want to get involved. I love to get involved with any of your listeners. Wanna get involved. Is it so anyone could just kind of get involved. Now i guess the properties just sitting me you don't own the rights to children's hospital. I dunno contracts. Do in the year ahead is going to bring some changes as most years. Do but this one is gonna be a little bit different and if you're looking to get the new year off on the right foot. Maybe you want to change your wardrobe. Maybe you want to start with something simple. Maybe you want to unload some of your past. Yeah you wanna do that marie. Kondo thing and simplify or jewelry or watches arts or even home decor any sort of luxury item. You want to unload you want to downsize in life. The real real is the most trusted source for authenticated luxury. Consignment you can sell. Everything could sell a women's fashion men's fashion fashion that can't be gender-specific jewelry watches all of that and you can get up to eighty five percent of the selling price at the real real. They've just made selling simpler than ever and they get rid of all the kind of annoying busy work aspects of like. They set up an appointment time. They arrange a free pick-up can also sell in person safely and easily at one of the rio rio's locations across the country or you just request a free shipping label to send your items off selling your luxury items with the real. Real isn't just smart financially. It's also sustainable. So start selling and earning today. Visit the real real dot com to book your free appointment again. That's the real real dot com over meet again. Have you been writing during this time is have you found it like a creative time during a during this weird not real not not anything not writing anything like you know useful for our work because also like god. Everybody's been writing. I know there's going to be like a flood. Yeah i know it's already happening. I guess like that trash saw trailer for is like michael bay movie about kofi about covid. It's it's about the pandemic a and like there's just too soon. I couldn't believe but it's all well kind of like you could tell there's money in it and back now. He just ran the numbers. He was like what people talking about right. Now let's cove it. What is it. What is this cove. Nineteen thing yeah. It's it's always a bad disease all right. Well it's movie about that. Because people are chattanooga disasters. I mean look the the number of their Speaking of movies that people love and lecture fire hits We talk about my brother. And i love to talk about the movie. We did which when we did it. It's patriot was called patriot. Hey ville i can't remember what the new wedding now. What was yours why you can't remember because it's maybe the most generic title forgetting it's very forgettable. It's just It's called taking chances. Oh oh rubs register up just so terrible at least put z. Enchanted you know taking chances. Yeah yes it up. A little bit exclamation point. Yeah yeah it christian said it as well because like things happen you know making decisions. People do things and they have consequences. I'm sort but at that time. That was such a fun time. It was a yeah. That was great scott. And and i remember when i heard you were going to do it I was just such a fan of yours. That was just a great time but we Do miss that. You miss like I i do. I miss going to small town. I probably would never have gone to. Yea yeah like finding the good restaurant food restaurant air like getting wasted with everybody in the cast or in the holiday inn. I'm imagining you with craig. Robinson in those hot tub time machine will get in new orleans. I mean you said the first ones vancouver but like You guys in new orleans. I spent a day with gregg new orleans on a job. And he's the mayor of new orleans. Yes yes it's like a marriage. He sits like a king. This is so my wife. And i my wife was visiting me and craig was just texted me like me here. And he address we went to the street was dead. I was like what what the heck is this where we are and we're like maybe we should leave because it was like five minutes late then a door opens and it's huge guy walks out of the door and you guys here for greg and follow me. We followed in this winding hallway all the way. I'm rooms just nothing until roof into this gorgeous room with a couch. This long purple couch in a bar and in the middle of the purple couch was craig robinson with his towel over his shoulder. Yes girls okay. okay yeah. I've go i'm going to I just brought up his our text threat that we have in dumb. He is my second favorite people who like Keep passing on the show. It but in a friendly way to let jeff goldblum is amazing. I have some really funny text from him where he says he wants to do. But he can't. I'm reading craig's that are really his craig will stay. Basically like yeah. I think i can do that. Yeah who kind of floated out. And then i follow up. And he's like now like yeah I love him i. He's just one of the most honest in until it comes to booking him. Oh yeah yeah well. Yeah he's just like why do people keep you hanging like. They don't wanna see mike assholes. I not only thing only power we have in this business businesses. The power of no. I have just told people like. I don't have the bands and do not have. I'm so sorry. Yeah the spring or whatever. Are you able to do that are you. Good at Yeah go sometimes depends on my mood. But like yeah i can i can do i've i've i'm not at it. I am a in a lot of guilt Yeah but i have been saying. I've been lately. I find myself agreeing to things And i know in the back of my mind that a half hour before the thing. I'm not gonna wanna do it. I i very little foresight But i so. I i know obviously the pandemic during this time. It's one of the positives of this. It's yeah people don't have a lot of excuses right now. that's the thing. Yeah so thanks for doing this. Yes this podcast. Called no excuses right. Yeah that's really. What are you doing whether we should start recording Every time at stupid. Where did you go to college in boston. Mass umass amherst away an hearst in india. Neko maybe i'm getting confused. He went to he went to What was it called. Colby sawyer in new hampshire Yeah he went to a northeastern and in boston. And that's what he didn't like the size of it heat so we went to a small school where he could dominate the theater. A harvard well which he did really good actor actor. Yeah were you guys. Were you close growing up where you now. You must have not up. I mean. I grew up in boston and search. All my friends were like a. You've got a stat. You got a stat. Toughening up your little brother right now. You're gonna happen. I would be toughening him up. Whatever that means not understanding what the goal was like why. I had to toughen him up. Just at my friends were like this is the understand. It protocol so claw. I toughened him up. I mean by ignoring him and other stuff he tortured him and all ago she didn't but then we reached the point. And i think oh i thought you. I thought that was a lack. I was not doing a lack. I was not a lack. That was no kidding. I was proof of. Yeah for the purposes of 'cause i always forget your from s is because you don't have but did you grow up in a in a tough eager suburb. We're i grew up in in the suburbs. I mean i wouldn't say it was like a tough neighborhood but you know all of the kids. I went to school with. They were like one generation out of south like their parents had made good and got out. You know these kids. My friends would go parents. Yeah they'd go back. Go back to southey for thanksgiving or whatever and get the ship beaten out of them because they didn't live in southie and then they would come back with a chip on their shoulder so there was a lot of that. I think something like that. Some some some aspect of that. I remember going to front. You're i know i'm gonna get to you. Were both eagle scouts Half and my brothers night. we loved boy scouts. We it was a really big part of our lives in And i remember going. I didn't know you were. I didn't know you're in well. I don't like to bring it up because it's a big regret of my my brother. My little brother. Who's who might the show and my older brother both have their eagle scout. But i dropped out right around the time. I was thirteen so i was really gung. Do you have the phrase joe scout. Yes yeah yeah yeah come. I was meaning for the few of you who don't know what that means Kind of it's like a really in a really gung ho eager eagle scout who gets all the badges badge. Yes yeah yes. I got all the ones i would like extracurriculars. Basically the kid in boy scouts who's like teacher. You forgot to give us home dave. Yeah we got a couple of those. But but at the second i discovered curls gene obviously i was lucky in that like are like summer camps and stuff girls. Were there own families used to come and families of the scouts would run a campsite. Daughters would come their sister. This scout sisters would common. I mean my first girl. I two girlfriends where at where sisters of my friends and boy scout. Yeah oh yeah. While the biggest crush i had was the sister of the one kid in our Trump who was cool. We have one cool kid. Oh it's martin. He was cycling like a jock and like kinda quiet and brooding and his sister was in my class. I was in love with her and they only come on route. We went to yoggu. Kd you remember. Yamaguchi was a big camp in rhode island. There were kids from the boston area. That i remember being in pawtucket and i still remember pasco. Rhode island is where just it may have been mostly like northern rhode island like southern new. Just miss you. But i remember the kids from that region being extra. I remember accents. Yeah and being like extra tough and being extra intimidated. They were intense. Like hey gimme those sneakers. I them out. I'm just going to try them on. Is totally you. Yeah intimidating and just have to like scary. Yeah i i. So it's i don't i think of you as kind of the opposite of that type of person so it's It's amazing you grew up like well you know i was. I worked in a restaurant in new york and one of the bus boys who had done time for for doing coke told me i told them. I always have nightmares about going to prison. And he and he said oh. You do great. He had spent like five years in prison. Ha he told me. I'd do great. I was like why would i do present. They could use going to say like you know herself and he said because you're funny now if your nightmares about prisons and said that's interesting i like how like because that's how i got along. I got along with everybody. You have a set group of friends. But i got along and Yeah you remind me a lot of my have yeah. I'm sure you've met him john. Togo togo jonathan togo. I think you might meet him on patriot. Ville or what is taking taking share by the heart is doing the students and things People people relating to one another. Yeah yeah tell but you togo has that were. I think that was a big part of his survival in that. He grew up in a similar environment. His dad in fact was in determined walpole. And he's from rockland mass and i every time he meets anyone from tier Who's from harvard mass. Every time you meet somebody like that He'll say to them. He doesn't drink anymore but one night he goes He said to cure. Yeah you get key gets it. He's from mass he gets it funk and so whenever we i think about massachusetts from there i always think about toby going. He gets the i quit. My brother writes these questions and the egos from massachusetts. He gets as yeah. Do you find out when you yeah. They gets it young. Find that in. La when you meet people from mass you start kind of relented differently. Oh i'm so excited. When i meet somebody from the acids we on shooting the unicorn right now oh and there's like Yet to crew members that are from massachusetts from the especially when it's a crew member. Oh so it's your great. I just like yeah. Oh yeah oh you know you know the events you know. Sally celebrated luck and selling dude. Let me tell you the story about this out. and then i'll bidding all over them as i. This is the second third season of unicorn. Saka second Well it should be the third really second of many second of man. I think it's gonna be sixty minutes of You know you've been they'd be picked up for eight. I'm sure of it. You can count on it. Well love sound bite. So i think we're going to definitely go with that one looking for buzzfeed and that's a single camera. Show bikila watkins who come goggin. What a cast dogan's you know right rockwall. Every couple years has a guy that he falls in love with yes and once. I'm sure he's done it to you. Gotta meet your Long yeah for a while. It was waiting was shooting a hot tub to get like he and bip. Where like you got to meet walton. Oh my god these together. According to walton like so that you be and they were writer they were right right. Yeah that's the thing he he loves bring people together but then it's like well you know. Let let us figure it out. We'll we might. You might like each other and they just kind of step back and don't call us. Get their kids. Yeah they look at each other. Proudly you always think you were going to. Your path was going to be. You do great impressions on now just realizing again I focus basically on classical shit. And call i was i was going to be. I was shake. I was going to be shakespeare in the park. Oh nine but i learned that like. I didn't know how to the one thing i didn't learn in college was how to addition so i i was basically doing shitty shakespeare off off broadway and it was costing me money to do and i and i was. I was learning how to audition by just going out on every Even if it didn't like looking for a female black lesbian Hand you know disabled Woman to play an actor. I was like. Yeah yeah. I don't care about getting it i just want to practice Wow and agent at the time were no because No i didn't. I didn't have an agent until i got the daily show. Oh wow he's backstage calls. How backstage for everyone was a magazine. Where you just yet. They had all these. Yeah i i think. The unions had to allow a certain amount of auditions slots for anyone and people representation. And that they were usually like kind a long shot. And i my understanding is that they often didn't take those actors is seriously By i don't know. I mean i i got a lot of like i said shitty. Yes should he. Step to keep me busy and keep a practice acting. And but then i. I often for a sketch group and i it and i was like oh and something made me like do it. Have there been other things that you flirted with doing a classical plays. I've always wanted to do the only. I don't really care about doing the state stage work but you must have at some point. I like it. I like it but but also but i've got to pay the bills. Oh yeah that steady job. And i've got to do that so to that. Come for your parents. Were your parents very practical stuff like that. They're like actor. You want to be actor but both now now they didn't give a shit they didn't even say don't ask me for money and not there. Were actually my dad. Was very practical. He was. I wanted to be an artist. When i was really young and he was like well. You can be a commercial artist. Let me show you this. And he showed me a flyer like a circular from the newspaper back when they used to draw the bicycle sewing. And yeah you know at at bradley's sears. Did did he really yeah. he's wrong. A commercial artists commercial artists as in. I didn't know that hurry articles. Yeah he would draw for like advertisements instead of far out while. That's what my dad was like trying to take my particular passionate at that time and make it practical right. You know interest They were brought up. And i was sort of brought up in this world where it wasn't a real thing that yeah art world like. Yeah do that. Yeah leave and go and pursue that. Yeah it was odd. It was an odd thing for me to choose to me as well. It wasn't a profession. I mean it's extinct. They're movie stars and did it obvious. No you can't do that these other. These people were born. Movie starts yes or theater stars and they just were doing that. Their whole life is home. Yeah i was born of high have south weymouth's and yeah so i'd never. I never really thought it was a real thing. At what point did it become. I mean you mentioned so. You're waiting tables and you're pursuing it. You're actively pursuing. You're going on all these crazy. Auditions that point. Are you thinking what. What's the plan. Is it to become a stage. Actor is it to become To make a living doing it was just to make a living. It was just like mike. I think i my my idea of what my understanding of what Successes changed over the years. And then changing. It's still always changing like and never back in college. I remember telling this this is so embarrassing. It's crazy. I remember telling rates is a woman a really good friend of mine that like she was like. What do you wanna do. I was like. I don't know but i know i'm going to be famous and now i i said that now i remember saying that. It's so gross. I saw that you admitted that saying that not with any aspirations to faint a how later like i didn't i don't give a shit. I didn't give a shit about it. But i do like that was to end so because i think i think subconsciously i knew i was going to be an actor. Yeah and i i was. I was aggressively confident about. Its right will. You must have been because you are good. I imagine you were good And you have to be a degree of confidence when you're right and in college you don't have that fuck button and sensor and your head going right now that's something that you should just think to yourself for not say that you're going to be you know and certainly don't say amos right really not say like an ominous potentially creepy wigs. It could gonna be famous for murdering something like this. I said it like this. I'm gonna be famous. I is that ominous but it's still weird. Okay it's still murderer jason's all right. I'm not sure. I can't tell i can't tell from here missing. It's really funny. I gotta wonder mentioned being on the receiving end of that. Somebody saying that. I know i know. I remember her name was. She's super smart and she went like this like knowing knowingly like not like it's not that you're definitely not going to be famous because like that was that was if it was fucking aggressive. That was yeah. I like you. So i'm going to let it go but like you're going to look back at that and listen. This is breaking news. I'm never admitted that this is great. Anyway you know. I i suppose i don't remember myself well enough at the time but i do remember fetish izing Being an actor in wanting it for the photo of the wrong reasons. And i was. I remember being into like that vanity fair cover where all the young new guys on the new after they would put osteo rick and like i remember thinking like oh how cool are they. You know that they're like i was. I was aware of the next thing and yet it's funny. I might same thing. My perception of success is really dramatic. Switch changes it changes. Did this like year. Long tour for the national shakespeare company which sounds a lot more impressive than it is. My brother did that. No i know i know. It's not heat company of shakespeare. Yes it does sound impressive. But it's you play like high high schools instead of doing laundry the whole time soon. You know that my older brother. That's insane. I make your brother my little brother. My older brother now a teacher but yeah he did. I know it. yeah So yeah i did that. And i was sitting on stage once and there was a time. We were all unstaged. The whole time and applying. Different arts I was just sitting down getting fed. You know imaginary greats That happened be dating on the tour or love. Of course and of course and and i was like looking out at the lights and everything and it was like i made it. I did it. I made it and i had. I had made us just by the way i learned so much that night. If you could keep doing that like what is your. What is your version of. I've made it you know and like now. I'm feeding my family. You know we just had to fix something in my backyard that because it was broken do that. And if my family's happy right. And and i'm and i've got a job and go to practically i two five then i'd meet it i i. I bet i bet that's totally was helping. My brother older brother moves something three year old and a one year old. And i was and three year old love when i read to him and it is more flattering to me. When he's like. I choose you to read me. The bad times are over my mother. Who's a great reader over. So he sits on my lap and he keeps. He is desperate to keep reading then. Another one in for metering and it is i myself having to hold back Like you just keep from weeping. I almost started weeping right now. The best you made. You may be a dream sweetheart to do Mid-upper meet again. I'm about to go into acting job. And i've been like jonesing tattoo do so miss acting and i'm now wondering well. Why is it going to be as fulfilling as it was. Is it going to same kind of fulfilling i. Yeah how what do you mean like you know what it is. It's going back to the hotel room and finding the robs and the years and like. I don't think we can do that anymore. I just don't know if i'll get the same kind of kick from it. Yeah it it's. I've been i've been doing i. I've done to shows since this thing started and it's been a very it makes the whole thing i just. We were three weeks into the unicorn. And i just started enjoying myself and i love this show. I love yeah. I love it and it's just been it's been not Not fun it's what is it that what's the first thing that prevents to fund is. Is it the missing your family. I know i can. Invade heard i'm at paramount and i'm talking about oh like right. Yeah no that'll i'll be back at six but It's really so it's a personal thing. I i hate wardrobe. I hate putting a mike on my it sets of fire in my brain that like all the mike is starting to travel over my knee. I could feel as i'm walking shaking me out of the scene. And i'm like oh this. This will eliminate ninety five maybe ninety eight percent of the listening. Whoever's listening but what what is your preference whenever they're like. The like mild-mannered sound goes like What do you want the mike pack. Daniel left ankle inside left ankle. Yeah yeah oh. I go right. Eglington said yeah yeah But it's still but so it took three weeks but then when you settle back in is it like it. Just playing around with friends now is. Is that the level that you you've reached the we just had a great episode this week and and i had to was in two scenes that like felt like the old days felt like wow this is i felt felt like we really made this in something else and they let you improvise. No yeah yeah screwed. But there's such good writers. That i don't i don't need to. It's just at the end you know we'll we'll let the best yes. Yeah oh and then we also you know we can make it your own if it doesn't quite fit into your mouth like apache. Espn yeah like. I'll change a couple of words. But i liked the way they right so i. I don't know how you felt about it. I that's my favorite place to improvise from when it's good when it's already good you've already got a good thing and you can. Maybe you can. You can add to it on the thing we did. I remember feeling the pressure of having to and i wonder if you felt having to kind of do more you know having to kind of like make some of us Oh my god. Yeah the god yes. I remember and i remember feeling like that. You and nick offerman as well. We yeah yes was nick offerman. How are we are. Are we allowed to improvise. I can now all. That's thinking about it too much. I started yeah. Yeah and Really wanting to be able to like re you know rise to yours and knicks. Oh god i felt very With with improvising. Oh 'cause i done only a few movies before that that's crazy. Rabbi that was. I felt that about you journ. I really like oh my god. He's the master. He's oh my god. That's no no no no. I've never felt like the master so that it was. Wow daily show even was be. Because that's what i think is daily show is all that daily show is pure negative. When you do those field pieces. Sure yeah yeah. But it was also very Structured improv like you know we would cut. And then i would with the producer to whisper to me and i'd be like okay. You know or or would come up with something but so you're sitting there for four hours and you're just going to ask the questions man along we talk about the apple commercials to we talk about. You may be doing. Oh those yeah we never. I don't think of because. I didn't know this at the time when we did. Who told you i don't know. Turn remember whether it was filled director. Oh i know fail may have been filled that that so people wondering what we're talking about you were going to do it. I was osman's part. Yeah yeah and I don't remember why i didn't find out i was doing it or trying to your i. I don't know. I don't remember like i think i don't know i don't remember i. Well i just didn't do it. Oh it was also. Because i was because i was plagued the pc. Yes yes i seem. That's what i heard. Yes that's that that that's funny was funny rob because the i must have told you this the first i must have told you this because the first the way they presented that job to me was i mean we were both there again. I was like oh. I don't do commercials know now. Of course i'd be like to lease connive akashi but it looks like i'm doing these movies and these time different time but they told me that the way they lead with. Okay i mean you were one like part of this like the thing they presented as being like this is kind of this could be a cool thing cordray's doing and i thought oh i said i was doing it. Yeah almost never doing yeah. That's funny that's fun. I was a fan of yours like okay. I'm listening if you got a but yeah this is such a tactic like the if i'm talking about it by lawyer talking about it with them. They're like all right. He's doing it as far as working. Seven rope court. I did play a steve. Martin play in san diego and I'm so glad i did it. But he had written the play and there were like the writer will be Work shopping the plane will be working on it every day. They were really specific about the writer. Being there and i thought to be around to be in a room shed martin is like done so i signed up for this thing. He the direct basically tells us all like st. Because i was like oh well i'll just ask steve when he comes and he's like oh yeah he's not he oh might pop in like once he didn't. He came to one performance. I and so on the first night we all went out some night. We were all out and Donald phase on in the show and My friends and we were all one by one. We kind of admitted that like that was a big reason why we all did it. Oh you guys think steve is gonna be my age told me that if we were also rachel to have done it but yeah ryan. Well you know. I'm terms of this. You know the the apple commercial. I'm i saw them. You know and the nice kept seeing them and kept seeing them and they were accused commercials. You know you know. Part of me of course was off. I also realized they would not have been what they were with me. 'cause much men hodgman brought an energy to it that like i would never even get close to ned so i don't know if they would've been as good with me in them. I think they got the right guy for show. Well i i. I'm a huge fan of both of yours. And and you know it's hard for me to talk about 'cause know i to one of us right now mere hosman go show we. Are you breaking up here. Because i'm getting a weird sound. We're on a boat. We're on a boss and there's got to throw one of us off. Chuck fucker mary okay. What is your most commonly used emoji. Would you say your go to use it more than any others amount of big emoji guy. But i have news. Ironically used the the west like a beaver swimming upside down. oh there is daughter. Oh yeah it's a new one offer the upset. I don't know what it's supposed to mean by that like. Hey that whatever this is like chew on the answer okay. If you could be a professional athlete what you play. You guys are big basketball baseball. I would pay Baseball would be a pitcher. I would be the best. I'd be the fucking best. No okay all right well question. I the the socks right for sure. That's fucking sucks. No yes i'm not getting traded. If i like mookie. Backs affected betsy. Purse that's going to be bets. Curse mac my words mac. What's words. what is the. What's the best what it was the most common when people try boston. What are they. What do they lean too far into. What is the ours are they stressed the are allow ours. But they you know there's a subtlety gets. They'll add bus people at the end. Like i'm gonna go get a pizza or go with lindor ya. Yeah so it's also like this. At t i like that kind of irish t. It's better. it's like yes it's almost ro- some words are rolled. The t rolled a little bit bitter Does a really good renders in. The town is really good. Yeah oh yeah. Yeah but like like robin williams and In a good will hunting not great. He doesn't really attempt which is crazy. Because i mean i i remember thinking he's not really going for it yet. It's all over the place. It's it's a really hard accent. It is right now. People need the had they kind of push that the adding. Yeah and they'll get all mixed up with new york and long island you know. Yeah gotta think. That's the only time i've ever said anything. Less than glowing about robin williams knows. I love him was joy it yet. If you could have dinner with What was your favorite movie of all time. Rub or one that you really excited to to show your kids. You know arthur o. R. dudley moore. Yeah yeah my wife bought me that movie once for my birthday because she likes to watch me watch it. Oh that's one of the. Most romantic things have set. It's it's the bag great. We watched it recently. I watched it all. Well that's when you know you love somebody when you really excited to see them enjoy something. Yeah great yeah. That's cool if you have one snack food for the rest of your life. What would be your go-to your stone. You just tear as i smoke some jays. I've been. I've been james dooby i'll do. What would i snack food. I like our cream and onion ruffles. Oh yeah yeah yeah exactly what it is. Yeah okay Oh yes if You to live somewhere else. where would it be. I don't know man. Probably yeah i like. I don't know why sonoma's comes into my head else. it's weird. I've only been there once. Missile loved it. I loved it. I i like anywhere whether it's like big big trees big victories. Also lincou that whole Anywhere north of here on the west like the somewhere around there. Who is your did with three people dead or alive we've never met. I don't like on dinner okay. Our a branch. Oh that's not that's different people people alive or dead yes never man. Oh man. I'd like to just pick their to absorb them a little bit and socialize. Stephen king i heard have met him but it was. I blew it A vince i talked vincent. I said that he's one. That was one of his datta here really. Yeah yeah. Yeah george orwell. Stephen king and kubrick stephen king david lynch and david mitchell the guy wrote cloudless. Oh wow Yeah okay That's a helton daily meant to david's davidson davidson steven. That's how i could have been any yet david a night. I don't even know their work when you love names. Do you have other siblings. Rob is it. Just you and nate. We have a sister named laura. Uh okay she's performed out to chivvy not known She's in she works in higher education in massachusetts. Then i'm not interested if you Who's your favorite muppet. Did you have a favorite mother groner growing up or whatever or as an adult favorite one. It's the guy who's the guy that plays piano. Ralph ralph did the muppet movie. And i got cut. I got cut. Oh wow and. I was walked back and it was all these itself as theater environment and i walked backstage. I look out and they're supposed to come back on but wait a beat to come back on on. Roth goes like this. Rav is leaning around his screen staring at you know that's really like he's waiting for me and i went home where my god. These are real. It's a humid. Yeah yeah brand. Yeah i like i. Also i sort of like brought out with them to hung around all he gets the puppeteers like to get dirty l. Yes yes. I did a brief offered and they were like just but like inappropriately. Oh yeah yeah so sick of being like you know safe if you could be reincarnated as a non human animal. What would you pick an animal that you you'd wanna be. Oh wow while you think. I would say what been sponsoring You know. I don't think i asked him that. I think we're in too much of a hurry. And i was trying to get to. I think i skipped that one. I'm think big cat the l. Yes this would be a good cat. I think i think i would be big. Oh yeah yeah. Because i'm so. I'm already like very live. Yeah you haven't like your life but you also have some mass to you. Have some mass. I must yeah you must sinewy it. Would you rather be called unattractive run funny unattractive. Oh yeah oh yeah. Yeah i call myself unattractive every yet so funny. Yeah for its yeah. I don't care about that. Which which golden girl do you most identify with dorothy. Blanche rose fear the man. Listen you got the golden girls. I don't care it's my wife. Loves the golden girls. I bought her for her birthday. I heard about. They have a floor plan of their apartment house watts. Like she's that into own my god. She would start randomly when the kids relent little randomly. When we're eating go. Thank you for being a fran So i think i would be a mod what's her. Oh dorothy blanche custody. You're the closest you get to like. Who looking at the camera. And yes as you would love the show. It's a brilliant Old ladies yes sassanian. Smart dogs dogs Dogs or cats. You prefer cats get yes you kind of already. Beatles or the rolling stones beadle. Do you have a song that like You're you're you're if you could play any of them. Yeah well the the second side of abbey road. Oh slumbers cat yet. Boy carry them. Majesty and also her majesty like i would say Yeah back sorta chunk. Yeah second side yeah. It's it's the thing. I test my new record. Players are record record needles Off the question by the way. It's yes it's interesting. Some people mullen for example was like oh stones. Of course you and i would have guessed marlins. Yeah yeah yeah. Yeah i like the stones. I understand it but it's blues and it's all blue people with some sort of rock background who i think. Perform themselves are. Yeah yeah yeah well. I man selfish t could keep you on for another hour and a half. I know i have a a series of questions. Asked him all traits okay. They're not finding their like. Sat route south is like can't we all want is gonna wanna listen. Well what i was going to say. I'd like to but i have a limited amount on my offers. Oh there's a in the in the catcher and what did you what did just because the gatt in just missing that one way or the the story because then on the flits the gatt gatt translates so i gotta go. Because it's the. I you said on the free well only shosh. No you get it. You're from mass. Get it yes brought it back. Yes land rotted bed. That's why a year one of the great didn't know podcast till yesterday buddy. You're the best. I you're the bank you for doing this. I love you. I'm glad you asked me to do this Thank you the really great catching up. All right man thanks So that happened. So that's your impression. He kind of does yeah. He kind of does yeah. I know too much. Maybe oh i guess. I've morning i often have him on my brain but We were talking about time machine time machines. That's a fun part of that movies. Like they don't really care about the inner they kind of make a joke about the technicalities funny story of how he talked about getting the script for it and he was like. Oh god fuck my career you know. He's got the strength. This is the worst enemy Read it. And i felt he was like the the sub title to it was like based on the true story. Ever like yeah. He's very funny. isn't he funny very dry. And he's like mastered sarcasm. You know. Larry easy sarcasm sarcastic tone. I feel like he could teach if there if that were a class taught at the do should be sarcasm. Professor yes yeah and when when you enter his class. He's like oh. I'm so excited to teach you that. Curb story is a that An interesting that they tell people not to try to be funny. I know it makes sense. It makes perfect sense. Just my own taste like the ones that i can see trying to be funny. It's not nearly as now and lately. The last good rule of thumb for comedy comedy. Don't try to be funny. Yeah trust the material to the situation is funny. I don't know if it's easy to do it. Easy for some people. But i'm sure it's hard to do it really well because the media really good actor you really. Do you just have to commit just about like this is like this is geared into like a pretentious actor. Just you just come to the material but it really is all. That's all it. Is you think about your favorite performances. And i'm thinking about a lot of rob's where he's like he also gets away with a lot of he does ridiculous things in movies like he says ridiculous. Things children's hospital is absurd. An absurd premise. For show yes but he commits to that. But he's a good example of that like if you commit you can get away with the. I feel like that. Show the premise of that show could only come from his brain like a combination of like that some really really dark material but but making it funny and delivering it in a natural dry way. Yeah just joking around with it. Brought me back to that shooting that movie together in south carolina. Did you guys go out a lot during this. Yeah we did. He wasn't on it for that long he he had a family so he was going back and did he came in for a little bit but like yeah and with offerman and emmanuel cheer and we mostly it was mostly the two of us but robins around for some remember going to a A chain restaurants that catered to families and They had an owl mascot. Okay i know. You're talking about yeah. They're not a sponsor yet of the show but who knows who knows god. I went to one of those restaurants in connecticut. When i was fifteen years old. You feel really not with our parents would get out of here. I never told you that. Now yeah you went to owners up. Yeah you did. Yeah it was. I was going to an appointment even though there was one here. It's been like weather's field or something state. I was going to i. This backed off. Field sounds But it's not a pretentious player. Who's with just a die fan. Their wings that divide. But i remember i was fourteen. I fourteen fifteen and they were driving me. That age really. Whiteman and i fell asleep in the car. And i woke up to my to our dads saying okay. We're here at ati. And i swear and i like open. My eyes blurry is and i. And i looked out the car window and we were in the parking lot of a hooter was not your there. It was just the three of us. Go ahead because how would forget and to cap it off. It was on holy thursday. Why yeah what did moms say okay. And pows like they've got great wing someone so we wear and then i was so uncomfortable. Because you know it's not a place you want to be with your parents. no no. it's not a place. I mean really place i ever wanna be. I know because. I feel uncomfortable. I do feel people. Assume a pervert. Well that and also like then i feel of whatever we sound like two apologetic you know guys. But like i always do. Feel bad for the psych they. They're you know if they're working. I don't know it's like a lot of fun at those places. I shouldn't feel bad. Necessarily i accused me too. And i do feel bad me to buy definitely i should. But they showed games there. They've got the beer and like you'd to sell me. And i think there's a lot of ways. Yeah great out again. They're not but you never know. Based on this conversation be cancer and maybe if they were to be a sponsor we would be less shy about talking about our. Yeah for sure the good times. We've add their shirt. If if we were to get a gift certificate go there. Let's say. I think we would sing a different tune. Yeah even if it was like a free basket wings with every swam. Pretty good food there. Eighty the poplar. Yes those are good. Yeah man you ask for the vaccine. Us david wayne was still involved children's hospital and he told you that the show was not tv anymore. And and you sh- artfully got out of it and you self deprecating about it but it was a really funny moment. I i it off air for a couple years. I didn't know that. I thought we were just talking them. All in about a former We were talking about how she had been on it. Yeah well i mean that's that's the difficulty with streaming not to defend. I hate that. I just became one of those people candidate that i'm wrong. I'm wrong about it. Obviously our research department. That was to blame. that's true. Oh it was written it was written. I'll read it all burgundy that but i you know there's all the streaming things i it's hard to remember because things just seem on right now like portland. He's been off the air for three years. I think but as far as i'm concerned it's like you turn on netflix. It's right there. That's true yet. You knew that they weren't still making new episodes when you talk fred i did. I watch i though. It's a tough comparison because it it must've right away. He must have known if he thought about it. Long enough. will he definitely knew you weren't a huge fan of show. That's for sure. You like all those people. I'd like the people and whenever i've seen i really enjoy it. It's fun. it was on forever unfairly. He doesn't need me to be now. But it would have been respectful if you done research Speaking of research both what you both have to not have seen enjoyed every time. It's his brother. Nate is an eagle scout. As as he. yeah and You brought that up and you weren't an eagle scout. But that's okay you made a really far and you kept referring to me as your little brother in throughout the interview and I think it's time to retire. That i don't think you can call me that anymore. Little brother yeah. I think once you're once we're adults which we have younger while first of all i'm not much bigger than you from one thing and also i'm in my late thirty i guess so. Didn't he call nate his little brother. I don't think so baby. I is rather act form. Baby brother baby brother makes more sense to me a weird way because yeah because everyone knows. I'm not a baby. So that's obvious. If you call me your baby brother your little brother. it's it's misleading in conway. I just thought day titas. Somebody's baby brother. And then it'd be funny if you had an older brother who is like shrimp he would. That's a movie chats twins. Yeah yeah yeah. Is that the whole joke in twins. That just looked so different. No they're also also very different right he. He's very noble corrupt. He's like yeah. He's like a drifter he's At didn't go into you. I'm like yeah. He's like the kind of crash schwarzenegger's the good one. He's yeah that's a really good movie. I wanna watch it now. it's amazing though. They haven't remade. That doesn't seem like a movie that they would have the rock. Kevin hart would remade. Yeah exactly yeah. I know i bet it was in development or something they never or an or they just couldn't get the rights that name or something and it turned into another wait. What were you so okay. I'll retire little brother I really liked his favorite emoji. Do you remember to us You know. I don't a beaver. Swimming upside down. Oh yes an otter. It's pretty funny. Yeah hopefully they can find that when they put the little picture of Yeah Let's read a letter. That's how that's see quick my mind and now it's going to be funny in prince to see that yeah podcasting smart. Yeah letter. i didn't know they had the those beavers. This is a letter from this letter from maya becker. I've been seeing a lot of interesting Spellings for were names. That i thought i could spell a i wa maya maya subject. Would you rather screenings justin christian. I wrote your wild back. About being a new. Shorty catching up on past episodes. I'm a few episodes in on the corn. Once thought i'd share some. Would you rather for a couple years on facebook. I asked a weekly. Would you rather questioned my friends. And these were the most hotly debated oh cool. That's great now. So she has a lot of calls cull through a lot of episode. No no but i would. You rather with the french had a week. Ma would you rather also yes. She'll have she'll have a lot to go through before she gets this. She's so lucky. Oh wow wuss. You'll be able to digit. Would you rather give up eating eating all vegetables or fruit or give up all fruit for vegetables. Oh i think we've parameters tomato is a vegetable. We've talked about this and so's avocado but tomatoes shouldn't be of mentioned both for the sake of play by the fruit salad method and not scientific classification. Okay gotcha my your nation. Just schoolmarm response was taking me Give up eating vegetables. That's i would give up fruit. I really like fruit a lot. But i rely more on batch vegetables. frayn's live. I have a smoothie every morning. And that means i wouldn't have been able to have. That vegetables are healthier than fruit. I think right just because there's much sugar in them. Also the fact that she's including tomatoes in there as a vegetable that helps. Yeah 'cause yeah. I like to tomato based. Oh yeah you mean catch up and avocado and you get avocados. Yeah i suppose hair well with pun on meals set opponent no wasn't a punt unintended. Still in pairs well with food like meals but the fruit. Yeah i'd be giving up would be affect my desert life. Yeah although desert life though. Although i gotta say and i'd rather skimp on the desert if i had exactly and you wanna live longer exactly like life. There are other aspects of life. You'd rather saver exactly like vegetables. I do like a lot. And i love fruit like fruit. Candy fruit deserts. It's it'd be talked back but through to use but that's just me you give up those. It would fruit. You wanna give up a skittle. I think i dig really of fringe in my mind. I'd have to give up skittles. Oh wow well you know. I've been one of my. Resolutions is to Indulge as much in thc And so i do want to. But i i enjoy weed and so i want to find a healthier way of Snacking and last night. I got to say i. I tore into a honey. Crisp apple not sponsor and god was good. It was really satisfying rarely. You know. I definitely vegetables for me. Is that yeah no. There's another one there two more if you only to you like these right. Are you excited next one. I liked the first one. If you only have to choose one and give up the other two permanently. Would you choose to keep books music or tv movies theater wherever books in both unusually other. Yeah it looks if you had to choose one and give up the other two. Oh no i'm sorry. Give up the other two permanently so you choose one of these. Tv movies theater altogether. I think so. It's books music or tv. Movies theater predators. You can't sink to yourself. There's no music and movies whoa can't tell stories etc Wow where. I don't get that. How stories why not. Why wouldn't you but that's not necessarily theater or movies. That's that's not unique to that. Can you read the beginning again. Affiliate you might have if you only had to choose one and give up the other two permanent say okay. So the three of them are. What are the threes at three one books to music three tv movies theater. Okay and i can only keep one of those Language yeah but here's the thing if you can't. Ev and movie is that and a lot of theater music components. I know I would keep shit. You listen to a book on tape. Shes probably not. she says. you can't tell store. That one's confusing media can't tell stories that's so you can't have any sort of or at torrey entertainment. You know i i. I wanna say books. Because i think it's the most important of those pro- well rounded life. But i i think i would pick music to of all. Those things i probably. Music is probably the smallest component of probably because. Yeah but i don't. But i'm i'm thinking aspirational the books would be. I know i wish i could say To important part of my life but unfortunately they should be. I give up music. That's a tough one. My would you rather give up the need for sleep or the need to eat the need for sleep or the need to eat primers if you choose to give up sleep. You can't sleep recreationally and same goes for food if you choose food. You don't get to eating coach like if if they weren't the essential not deaf. I i would give up sleep me too. Yeah and that more done. Yeah and if you don't need to become great l. and you could still be like diddy you can still like checkout for awhile and like close your eyes and lie down and remove yourself. Whatever situation presumably wouldn't be frustrating to not be able to say he's not able to. Oh that's easy. If you need to run yeah easy fact. That be cool. Thanks for the law. That is back to my. Thanks for the laughs. Especially when you to debate the merits of bringing your brother your dates i. He's calling out there named or yeah i. They didn't listen to it wasn't about him is about you. L. a. right now. He was mentioned in it. I think he was well. Hopefully he's not listening to this. I was crying laughing so hard. Thanks my my becker. Psi making another batch of cannabis caramel soon holler. If you want some. I walked out. Oh she say hala she said holler thank you. Yeah and thanks for hollering at us. I wish that part of my how. That's a cool. If you said that casually it would be really funny sounding. Thanks for how let me try and our add Say you're leaving and you're gonna. You're gonna trader joe's on and you want say let me know you need any okay Okay i'm i'm heading out trader joe's holler at me if you need anything that's bad. It's all terrible. You hit the our way to holler. Holler ratna what you did it. Let me try going. you're leaving. i'm just going to the store. Where i'm gonna trader joe's. Oh okay yeah well holiday meeting holler holler. If you need anything you go hala. I'm trying to be catty. I i know you're doing that thing. Where like certain actors we know they do fake scratches. Oh that's one of my favorite interviews up your casual fake. I love a good fake scratch. Everyone beyond the lookout for that. When you see an actor talking about something that they don't really care about they'll scratch their face in fake fix rat or or pull on their version of the back of their head out move. of course. yeah yeah. It's appear casual. It's such a great move as agreement but once you are aware of it you like are dialed into it. You see it all the time fake fake touches and stuff of right now. We'll anyway thank you for your letter though. Yeah really good. Those were good. Which would you rather this. Were and thanks for the offer for the cardinals. And i liked. It helps to have some pram. Yeah i was thoughtful. Uh-huh pretty well thought out making to enjoy fruit while i can. You know go have a nice piece fruit will you. This is not come through. I know but part of the things with would you start you. Imagine it you imagine a appreciate them more. That's true now anyway. We appreciate all you guys listening. If you wanna ride myself. I say with two thousand twenty one year. If you guys want to write in our email addresses life is short at wondrous dot com and thank you to the wonderful more than just a funny baldwin. He's a sweetman to very very intelligent. Yeah really funny perseus. thanks rob. Thanks for being on and So fun to catch up with him and thanks to all of you for listening to our our ketchup and thanks to christian. My brother my younger brother young not. I thought it was not supposed to say that you don't little yeah younger brother god and thanks to all of you. Little people or people or anything in between we might have little people listeners and pick people that we like them all. I could be a dream life. Good you you've been listening to life is short. I'm your host. Life is short is hosted by me justin long. It's co hosted by the younger brother. Christian link also produced by in monaco meghan. Monaco senior producer is shel. Me lands audio. Engineer is sergio in rica's and on this one we got to producers here. They are marsha. Louis and or non lopez four wandering a but the thing about carrie underwood that she she. I think i don't know if that could happen again. I don't know if like somebody with her talent and her charm the farm girl. I could be just discovered. Because i feel like there's so many different avenues now on which in which to be discovered it takes something like that. She might have been the last because she's exceptional like she's like a fine on. The country lay blessed. Yeah those right before social media. Boom right after kelly clarkson p. it had been legitimised. A little bit by kelly clarkson and and then this like she had this shoes beautiful she was. she's amazing. i never realized how great what is such a big fan. I always dip it like she's really. I don't think. I wonder if that's going to be discovered. They won't find someone like that again.

craig nick offerman clark duke rob Yes new orleans rob boston rob cordray robert workman andy richter new york jeff garland Hubel paul scheer ryan husky nate williamstown clark jon glaser Richter
The Pressure Of Being A Superhero w/ Brie Larson (& Jessie Ennis)

Get Deeper with The Dolan Twins

1:37:36 hr | Last month

The Pressure Of Being A Superhero w/ Brie Larson (& Jessie Ennis)

"And this episode of the dolans wins brought to you by door dash use code deeper for twenty five percent of your first order of fifty dollars or more. What's up everybody. We head on a break. But we're back and we have beards. We look like we're living in caves but we were just living in our house in my room and it gets dark kinda cave. And that's why. His beard grew at a rapid rate. Does the opposite of photosynthesis hang on. Okay so today. We're very honored to be joined with brie larson and jesse and we're gonna talk about topics like the hardships today facing their industries. What are you looking at me like. I'm not doing a very good job. Just actually looking at you all thank you. so what. Are we talking about some of the hardships that brian jesse face in their industry such as rejection when it comes to additioning process the comedown after a huge role such as captain marvel and then also fun things like hobbies. They've gotten into recently and childhood stories so without further ado we also have a new dog and we will introduce you to her okay. That's all we had a great old fund learned a lot and that's one of the episode is the first episode to give it like a rundown of what's going to go on a season to we're going to have guests on and we're going to learn from them with them and with you guys and that's what's gonna happen. Deeper with the dylan's we're gonna different things before we dive into this episode. I just wanted to quick disclaimer. Everybody on our team. Who's a part of deeper and brienne. Jesse were all cova tested and got negative results before recording deposit deeper and deeper is going to operate for every episode during these times. Where's my brother. Where's the other host. He's doing a face masks. Wait a disley. The world has never seen that. Actually the world has seen avalon. But they don't know her name or anything like that. I i guess is this. Government name is avalon but we call her have vs. Oh that sounds like a cool l. a. club that i would not go to. It's actually named for australian beach. She's named after avalon. Yeah so christina's from australia and you just docs us. What should we talk show. I say that. I know i want a year. Okay vacation spot. Surely that we need to go to. I'm not gonna tell anyone so you can the cameras wrong. This got extreme. No run relied. Welcome i guess. We'll start here. Welcome back the deeper with adult twins of one of your host. I'm ethan and we are joined today with our special guests of season two jesse so much for coming out. This is the voice of breezy jesse. I'm gonna put down because she's crawling all over me. But i got something so we went to petco. We got her something. This was the this is the l. This is the only collar. Now that wasn't like a flat collar. It was only like cool color. They got just so happened to be what that so cool. Marvel i love it all. That's amazing i mean i'd say oh gosh. Almost one. Hundred percent of all captain marvel murtaugh found in moments. Like best people are like. Did you know you know your beautiful. I hope you feel confident. Look so good. Oh looking happy about it but Eat that makes sense. Yeah it was so funny. Because i think the data confirmed the date of the recording of this episode. We went to petco and the only non like boring color. That they had was was the captain. Marvel it was it was a sign. She thought she should wear it for the episode. Well so i wanna get into how. How did you guys meet. And you're starting a podcast together soon. Welcome to ours the congratulations. That's amazing how did you guys me. And and and then we'll get into the conversation. Why starting the podcast. But one has you guys meet. We met in two thousand and ten at the williamstown theatre festival in massachusetts. I was an apprentice unpaid. Like someone who has to do everything for the festival for experience the experience and and it was a very rewarding and lovely experience. i auditioned. They would let us audition for stuff. So i listened to be in our town. I got cast as like an extra basically and breathing samba samba member. But it was a glorified extra and and brie. Was emily in our town and they paired us together for the beginnings of a handful of scenes so her character headlines like the first line of the scene would be like not now lois. And so the director nicky. Silver right martin nikki martin. Who's nicky silver. I don't know. I don't know greg i know Nikki martin would be like jesse. Just say something. I was like you're not supposed to improvise. Thorton wilder like it's kind of known. What the lions in these plays are not supposed to just like coming improvising. And he was like just say something so i would like riff and come up with jokes and then brew like not now. Lois and really good at you. Got the whole house cracking up as soon as you walked in. Thanks so. I was pretty nervous as the first season two. And you definitely broke the ice when you walked in. Oh oh yes and the other part of the story. Is that three rehearsals in a row. We showed up wearing the exact same thing and very specific like red convers white skirt flannel. Always twenty ten and soon pattern though on the flannel and everything. Yeah it was weird and so like by day three it was like oh we're best friends and it's weird because when i think back in my head there's like a time gap that's just missing. It's like all of a sudden. I got it was just like. Oh we're wearing the same shoes again. And then then. I remember like sobbing on the last day of of this camp and and we're best friends but i don't remember any sort of getting to know you i don't remember. I don't remember glen for an ice cream and being like so. where are you from. I was just like oh well. That's it no. I remember being like four. Am want to go for a bike ride. Yeah i'll meet you there. Yeah that's how a lot of my friends are best. Friendships have started. I don't remember how we met. And the ones that i do like commonly started with us getting into fights or having some sort of beef overcame that and wait ways. Much better for you guys though. Yeah wait your closest. Friendships started with beef. Yeah that's a thing. I don't think that's the thing you'd be dude from new jersey thing maybe but yours is but not like we're internet beef but like real real real if you're in school on you're like i just don't like that guy. Only xbox live. that's what it was back in there. That make sense. Okay gotcha gotcha remember. Yeah my best friend on xbox live and he me he wanted to fight me for some reason we met in real life and we just became friends. That's how it went down but again that's some dude from new jersey thing i guess is magical you guys wearing the same thing. It was meant to be true. So why are you starting to podcast together Because we're curious people and we love hanging out and talking and for me. It was like to be totally transparent. I was starting to feel the pressure of being perceived as a superhero being perceived as like some sort of like mantle to uphold in some way and and knowing because i live in my body one hundred percent of the time that like. It's just not true. And not possible. Like i am capable of doing incredible things and also. I'm hard on myself about the things that i'm not great at and i want to do better and i wanna learn more and so to me. This last year has been like okay. Is there a way for me to like sort of undo an unlearn for myself. And also perhaps maybe perceptions of the public has of me of like where i am or where i'm at and so that's been like starting the youtube chan on the now having this this podcast like part of making that feel comfortable for me. Of course bringing my best friend with me. Who i think brings out the best in me and makes me laugh and so now we to like hang out and talk with really interesting people and And learn and be curious which i think is for both of us like just like the basis. When you're friends with someone for ten years you go through so much together that you're like i want more people to know about what that what that's like. I think some of my favorite parts of our podcast episodes of just reflecting on stories. And just like touching it all the nostalgia. Because i don't know yeah memories and that we value so much and having your best friend alongside to get into that stuff. I wouldn't be able to do this inauguration. Either it'd be waiting her. You guys have each other for. I was by myself. I don't know talk about ignored but have a built in best friend. I guess yeah yeah. Yeah by percent ninety nine percent of the time but it's not by choice i think would be you know what i mean. Don't get me wrong. Blake randomly on the street. I look like me. Obviously but that. If you didn't even know what you looked like would you be like i. I don't like we're so we're so similar the similarities which is a match up so much you can start. Beef is what you're saying. Yeah we probably we probably start with beef fight or something midway. Let's kind of our flights actually going to be honest. We kind of got into a little altercation last night. what was it about. It was because abbott was peeing also potty trained data. Because he didn't want part with that he likes he likes responsibility but just like rebel. The benefits yes. He's like the call honestly. And the i've been mom and dad so we potty trained her and she was about the rug and i know what it looks like what. She's about the p. but he doesn't so you came in my room shoes the rug and i was just let her go because if you pick her up it's going to get all over the room. And then he picked her up and he got all over the room and he put it down outside. And i kinda give swift just in the back of the head than than it wasn't violent though maybe the middle part got messed up a little bit but then he slapped me back and then then we apologize. I'm sorry i hit you. He's hit you back. And then i was like damn sorry i hit you. We it out. Yeah it was like immediate. We don't even really had this apologize to get over our arguments. But that's that yeah. So i think if we met each other on the street we would would fight in the become friends. I think your question you met during acting basically. That's what tied we met during summer. Camp for grownups. Yeah that's fun fun. Fun summer camp moments. We kicked out of summer camp. When we were little enough about us. I also wanna know. Yeah was it just like a classic camper. Was it like like. I went to a monopoly camp. What's that does that. I still don't know what i was there. The of time loves monopoly. More than monopoly is the mcdonald's monopoly diamond at me. Like the game where you get the little monopoly pieces on your on your fries or never even looked into what that was oh election fifth people do hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pieces because you can get them at the grocery store to my mom will collect them for me but like back in the day when i had my space i would like talk to people on my space and be like which pieces do you have my space no said my space and i mean i've never i've never even seen my space looks but my fortunately i feel like it was probably a cool place to be but i wasn't even allowed to have facebook i started on vine that was the first social media is fine every day your favorite buying off the top of your head. The dolan twins really wasn't visor. Quotable love vying for that reason. I love the t target. Remember that one. The target signed like the t vine originated so much like comedy social media comedy. Because i've seen that tiktok over and over again. And i was like this definitely came from buying. Yeah but we were talking about acting right or no summer. Classic summer classic summer camp and lake it was called the or recreational summer camp bug juice. Did you guys watch bug juice. You're too young for bug juice. You were born in ninety nine. I go gold anyway. Tell us about your okay. So both of my parents worked all year round so we had to go to summer camp every summer. Well i think the important pieces that this was just a summer camp ran out of our school. That are dead was the vice principal of oh and we got kicked out. So it's not a good look okay. We didn't necessarily get kicked out so what happened was playing soccer and my team and there was this new kid in town and i was trying to be friendly with them and i think i was like one of the only people that talked to him. I don't know i just like i know. I like new kids. Because i i don't know recruit kids into my friend group and stuff like that but and just make people feel comfortable but he was he was pretty cool and i thought we were best friends thought he. I thought he liked me more than anybody else in the camp because i talked to the most but he was on the opposing soccer team and we won and i didn't even rub it in his face or anything like that but for some reason he decided to bite me. I couldn't handle losing. He didn't have real world experience yet. He kinda disappeared and then he bit me and then i was like this is there. Let's get bit me on my hand. And i had a show like the owner of the or. I don't know what you call them. The super manager manager. I had to show him the bite marks and he's the bite marks and then then he didn't really do anything about it. I was really upset about that. I was this little bit me. Like i got put in timeout to because i was very young very young so i've rented okay. I was i was during like thirteen. Yes that really changes things. Framing all of this. I accept your apology. And then the next day. I was just really upset that they didn't do anything about it. And actually i got in trouble for it as well so i decided to run away and ran into the woods and then i started catching frogs for because we use to go frog catching after school. Catch and release quick release pat him put him back. Give them some affection. I mean our life experiences so different. So where are you guys both. But that's what happened. And then i ran away. Frogs really catching frogs and they call it me running away but was really catching frogs. Had run away. I think still the frogs cleared it up into conversation. Where where are you guys from from sacramento boston. We both moved to la when we were really young yeah. My family moved here when i was two. Because my dad's an actor and he wanted to make it in hollywood. It's what was that. What was it like growing up with a five uber wacky. Because my dad was in a sketch comedy group and they all live together in one house so i was like the kid amongst all these twenty seven year. Old guys and girls women and tiktok house. No i lived in the original hype house but it was silly. 'cause there was like all these men who would wear wigs as a profession and like we're constantly on like you know dinner was like a variety hour and it was really infectious like i remember being four and just thinking. This is what. I wanna do forever. And i just wanna be on mr show with these guys and it was so fun. And they were all best friends it just seemed like the most idyllic of having and they got paid like i just thought that was credible. Were they on camera in this house acting like just for practice yet. They were a sketch comedy. Show called mr show with bob and david that started. David cross bob odenkirk on. Hbo in the early nineties. And and no. I think they just live together out of necessity. Antics went on the house just because they were all comics. Yeah well that's crazy. That's that's you wore wigs. For a couple of times. I guess as our profession and some videos and whatnot and vines. But i can relate on that you buy necessities so you moved here from sacramento which is northern california. I've driven through sacramento and it's it's the capital of california right great point. It is in fact. It's the capital. But i feel a. There wasn't much to see when i drove through. It's kind of more flat land. Maybe okay well. Yes i moved from there when i was like seven or eight and it was really like my memories of it as a kid or just like. It's a lot of dirt and driving really far to go to school like i don't remember it's way more developed now than how it was when i was a child but Yeah it's just like a from my memory. I was just like sweet suburban place that grew up. I wanted to be actor so we moved to move to. La you're passionate fracking started in sacramento passion for acting. Starting to sacramento. Yeah what did that look like. What did you do that got you into acting like. Oh this is fun. I don't know. Because i was so young like i don't have a i don't know is the answer. My parents are chiropractors I don't have any sort of lineage in my family of performers. as my my My grandfather was a musician. But it's not. It's not really like in my family but i was a super shy kid barely talked and then i started telling my mom when i was like five or something that i knew what my dharma was and i wanted to be an actor and my mom was like what is she talking about and of course my mom. I just wouldn't stop talking about it and i thought i was just repeating what somebody else was saying. And then at a certain point she was like okay. I guess i'll get you acting lessons and it helps me learn how to express myself in talk like i was just so shut in and then my parents would just be so clammed up. I remember like some of my earliest members are being so nervous at school. And then like i'd performance school talent or something and do like a full tap routine and be like completely comfortable and then like the second. I walked off the stage. I just be like you know. And that. So i'm sort of interesting now being thirty one and it's my profession and it's this thing that i still feel like so it's so important to me. It feels so much. Like a part of who i am and to think that it started from like whatever pure like a child is really interesting. Wow that's very young version of myself has brought me to this point and so thinking about it. There's no character or anything that you must've looked up to then that you could have gotten into it. I don't think so. I i i. I know that i loved watching things on. Tv and movies. I loved going to like a local video store. That was in the same shopping as my parents Chiropractic office. And i loved going there. I loved watch. I'd like watch certain. Vhs tapes until like they didn't work anymore. But no i don't recall there being aren't i don't even know how i understood the concept of it to be honest that's crazy. It's very like mystical to me in some way and it's something that like kind of weirds me out. Sometimes when i think about my how did that happen and so it sounds really naturally got into acting when you when you really there and so when you move to. La did active. Become something less natural to you like because it was more common here like for me. Personally i guess when i when i used to do skits and stuff like that on youtube like living in new jersey. I had never met anybody else that was interested in it and so acting to me. It was something that i ever thought like acting in my in my own videos. But i never thought it or or even really thought about what acting was and then i moved here. And everyone's talking about like scripts in you know having to express their emotions on camera. And that's when i began to like think a little bit interesting do you. Can you relate to that at all or well. I was like seven or something by the time we moved here for pilots. Which is when you auditioned for all like the new show coming should potential shows that are starting so i have this this. You know. I've witnessed a lot of friends who've come in. They're like adult life. Come in from you know either out of the country or out of the state to come in and try to be an actor auditioning stuff get wigged out. Because they're like so different in. It's so crazy. And i guess i just because i've grown up in it my whole life. I don't know if you can really do. There's like a sense of like it's so just normal in the sense that like i get what it is. I also get what i do and they sort of like. There's just. I don't know. I feel a sense of like a distance to it like it doesn't it didn't wig me out in the other people. Did i guess. Because i was just i did it for so long time. I was like conscious enough for his even for the first couple of years of auditioning. It took me years to realize that there was more than auditioning. I thought the audition was the job so imagine appointment at like nine when i was like wait. There's more actually getting off this whole time. I thought i was doing really well. When did you get your first acting gig. What what age do you remember. You were like a decade. before me. i was fighting. I was eight nine eight or nine. Yeah my my. I like pay. Oh i did one thing. I'm mr show where. I played like a kid crying but that my parents had a rule that was like i could only work with people that they were friends with and that meant like i did a couple of things but none of them actually were on television. The days that i got to experience it as a kid But my first real job was when i was like nineteen. I think i was in a movie called. Gb f and it was thrilling. I got paid one hundred dollars a day. And i remember being like i can buy whatever food i want and it was great. I was very happy. That's really cool. That's cool no matter. What twenty twenty one brings you can spend it creating something meaningful with skill shares online classes because this is what we make of it because this time with skill share you can find inspiration in the moment and learn how to express your creativity right. I believe that it is very important to have a creative outlet. I have recently picked up piano. And i'm learning songs that i love and also kind of free silent a little bit coming up with some things getting creative on the keys and if he was really good sounds like shit. 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Honestly say top one milkshakes ever had in my life so you guys don't let us know what you think and support animals because animals are durable insupportable with the shake. Watch the rest of the episode. I already swallowed mine in the car. This is good. You guys can have this one. I swallowed in episode. Sorry when you found out that you were getting rejected. How did your nine year old self or have you are the time handle that terribly. I ran away from home really. I mean it was a progressive thing. I don't think it was like the first time it's so telling now like i am very much the same as that child because i remember going in for my first commercial audition and i had been taking acting lessons and i had like a monologue that i had prepared me to eight years old and i went in. And you you go in and they have in a lineup with ten other kids and they basically just put the camera across like say your name say your age and what your favorite hobby is. And they're like go to win kendall like hi. I'm sarah i'm eight years old and i love to sing whatever and then keep going and then they got to me like brand you know. What's what's what's your favorite thing to do. I like to act like anything else. And i was like. No i like to act. And they're like okay and then moved onto the next thing. I knew that it was wrong. Like i knew that. I was like i was like what i'm trying to do is different than this at like nine eight or nine years old. I remember bursting outcry. If like they didn't ask me about my monologue. You really just wanted to act. I really did. I really did from like a very very young age. But yeah like when i i remember distinctly not getting a job when i was like eleven that i really wanted. I ran away from home and that looked like my easter basket with a blanket and a box of cheeses. And i was very prepared. Ran around the block and then keep. Yeah but it's like you. I've been in this for so long but like you. I've had so many phases of how you cope with the rejection. You know you see the difference between like when you're a kid versus when and the stakes are different to when your kid. It's like there's more flexibility it's like you're still on track. It wasn't until i was eighteen. I was like okay. I'm still not working consistently like is this becoming a problem you know. Is this something. I should continue to pursue or should i like legit started thinking about a backup plan and have you ever thought about a backup plan. Yes i have so many times. I've i have i've taken. I've quit or like taking breaks or Yeah went back to college a couple of times and i don't know it's maybe the same force that was in me. When i was a kid is just. I always ended up coming back to it. It always just felt like this is what feels like my purpose. It feels like what i'm here to do so it just yeah in the interior design. Classes just didn't quite panel for sure and a. I mean we talked about earlier that you didn't get your first role until you're yeah so so my my like draw to acting was that i was around actors all the time and it was fun and i would go with my dad to auditions and wait in the waiting room or sometimes go in with him into the room and sit down and watch him audition and it was really something i wanted to do. It just seemed like joyous and totally. Something i wanted to do and i was watching all of that a lot. Which was like a sketch comedy. Show about kids really wanted to be amanda bines and and so i remember asking my parents was like i think i think i want to be an actor and my mom was like no please. No she said you're so smart and you want to be like your dad. Are you sure. And i was like i really wanna be an actor and then four or five. I started kindergarten. And i was furious. I was like how come none of the guys have to go to kindergarten. These kids aren't funny at all and my parents are like you're going to be a person who goes to school and that's the way it is the drop out in kindergarten and my parents were just like from. My parents were from boston and i just remember them. Being like we've created a monster. Is this what kids in. La are like they just don't want to go to school at all because they want to be in welches commercials so they put me into acting classes on the weekends and it was like bribery. Like if i went to school. Monday through friday. I could go to my acting class on saturday and i was like ravenous for acting classes and plays anything i could do that. Like fell into that category. But i was psycho like any time. My dad's manager was calling. I'd be like hi rick any opportunities for me to don't represent you for your old talking about so at a certain point at got like really hard on my parents and so my dad asset manager. Can you figure out the worst possible audition to bring a kid to take your time. You know it can be months from now really like look at all the opportunities. What is the worst audition for a kit. I want to like trump. Like i wanna make her. Make sure she doesn't want to do this. Because it's really suffer open with this about about that with you. I feel like. I feel like he was going to be real tough. Are you sure you want to do it. And i remember as a for chewy commercial. And i was in acting classes on saturdays and with all the love. There is for acting teachers. A lot of the acting teachers that i learned from early on where failed actors like people who kind of had a chip on their shoulder to begin with and entire member. Having this on camera acting class which is already kind of funny the concept of an on camera class and the teacher who i don't think had worked since the eighties was like when you come into an audition you have to slate and and i know now sliding and saying. Hey i'm jesse to and i live in los angeles. But he said to sleep in that you love to act. And i love but he said to sleep. I had to give them my profile. Which is something. I don't really think anyone needs anymore. Because we're not shooting movies. The way they didn't like the sixties So i went into this truly bar commercial on him in the waiting with my dad. And there's like forty kids and some of them are like three years old and their parents are like screaming at them. And this one kid's i want my crayons in the mom was like you'll get you'll like you will get your crayons as long as you go in there and you tell them how happy you are like she was just and i remember looking at my dad and be like these kids are not in it for the right reasons he was just like oh jeez pleased finds something unappealing about this experience. And i went into the audition room. And they're like jesse. Like will you say your name your age for us and i was like jesse and i'm seven years old and then i- slated by turning my head and showing my profile and the two women in the room started laughing hysterically and i remember being like you're not professional and i was like so full of myself and i was just confident that these women were amateurs the i was the only professional and i went out and i was like i'm going to be booked and busy in no time and and then like the next day i'd like to begin any any response to we now is. They're going to be a callback. What's what's the deal and my dad was like. Yeah you know now. We're in the waiting game process of this. You could wait for months. Never here like all right. That's cool what's the next thing we've got like what what's what's the next audition. And he was just like good. God this kid is gonna never give up. Wow that's great. Teach you to not give up. You just do it. Yeah i mean. I also witnessed his career. Which is like you do thousands of additions and get for jobs. So you kind of learn through observation that like your dad was grinder. Any was never gonna give up and you wanted to be like that too. That's great that's cool. So we're your parents like fully supportive of the move from sacramento l. a. to pursue the acting or. Was it something like convincing that you had had to do their no actually super lucky and i don't fully understand why but they were fully supportive Which when i look back on it. It's like it's such a crazy thing that my mom was like. Yeah we'll pack up our life and drive to los angeles and like try this out and like the seven year old is going to pursue her dream. I mean it's it was a that's a lot i mean. I think that's a big risk. And and she supported me for long through so many knows. I mean like jesse saying it's mostly failure. I mean even still today it's mostly failure I like to remind people that my job is like ninety eight percent failure. Because even when i'm on set. I'm doing ten takes. They're using one and maybe part of one you know so it's like even on the day like our batting average isn't great So to be in that into continually be in the sense of picking yourself back up again staying in the flow and continuing to move forward and trusting despite a lot of signs telling you know all the time i mean for me it was. It was brutally hard. Like i didn't have a lot of reasons to continue except i just believed in it and my family did too and even for myself once a Once i started wanting to pursue it more and and i was getting into junior high and high school where you have more teachers and it just became much harder for teachers to understand. They're like wow. You're not gonna come classes even audition like a fail. It was like oh. I guess i'm gonna have to be homeschooled to pursue this further which felt like an even deeper. Okay we're going all into this. And and i don't recall my any sort of stress from my parents. I ve lucked out in that way. Because i yeah i i really have a lot of respect for that for the fact that they were like allowed me to choose my path. That's great. yeah are dead was a superintendent of schools so when we wanted to drop out of school freshman year i say drop. We switched online Even just convincing him to do that and my mom as well Was it was definitely difficult. But i'm blessed have supportive parents fall in the same bucket with just like the. I had the support that now reflecting back. I can't even understand. That would not have said would like if if if the roles reversed in in your mom your daughter and she was saying the same things. What do you think you would've done. Like i can't even imagine i don't know because i don't know what i know what it felt like for me at that age and it was so clear and it was so true that it's hard for me to imagine as a parent denying that you know when you see your child light up and worked so hard at something i just. That's tough that being said like. I'm sure it was really hard for so long for my mom to watch me have to pick myself back up again. And the amount of pep talks and also. I didn't have a driver's license for a lot of this. Either she's driving me to all of these places like there for me running lines with me watching me go in listening to me. Cry when i come out. And they were dismissive or they weren't kind or getting the phone. Call that like no. You didn't do it like this and wished you would have done it like that or you don't have blue eyes or like it's mad you you know. The processes is really it's hard. It's hard to grapple with. I guess and so to have to have family. That will be there and like believe in you even in the moments when you don't believe in yourself is pretty remarkable very privileged part that broke your heart Yeah i mean yeah me too. It was sandy in grease. It was an elementary school wide. Production of grease. I was in first grade and convinced i would get the lead. All the leads were the fifth graders. But like i remember walking up to the catholic and being like this is going to be my moment and And i saw that. I was playing the principal and that was just like inconsolably. Upset went home sobbing. I remember i was so small. I could fit inside of my bookcase. I remember sitting on one of the shelves of my bookcase in playing the sad version of sandy and cry. It'd be like a give me. I'm not sandra tv. God oh mela. Dramatic stuff is like so important to talk about because i feel like a lot of the time. We're even here right now. Because it's like we're starting a podcast like we're doing another positive venture or you see us on a red carpet. Who's he's doing an interview for a job that we've completed that we for god like and so. I think it creates this this cognitive dissonance in a way for people to view that it's like easy or that it was easier than it didn't require like so much hard work and tears and sacrifice and like tough decisions and it's hard to like even in this moment expressed that completely but i don't think anybody who's listening or watching this is in the grind of auditioning right now it's like it's for real and like the struggle is is really. I'm afraid of rejection does reaching out to people to ask them to come on the podcast and if they say no like like we reach out to the start of the season we want to have some some more guests and when people say no i'm like oh you know and i'm like go bad. Her it hurts. And it's like i can't imagine you. Additionally i have auditioned a few times before i've never gotten anything and i think that it it really kind of like i kind of fell back and just continue to do what was comfortable because kind of afraid of that rejection. I've really found that like going on. A ton of auditions helps. Strengthen your ability to audition because it is a job how does it. How was it a thing like rejection in any form is like one of the hardest things i think a human being to deal with. And then you guys are continuously dealing with the time after time audition after audition do eventually warm up to it and as careers have have like gone is gone easier some aspects. Yeah it depends on how much. I really really want the job. But i also feel like i've Accepted that sometimes. The rejection is just for that part. But you showed side of yourself to a casting director that they're gonna remember like for instance. I have auditioned for the casting director gina mccarthy at least at least sixty times now and book three of those jobs but the last job My my current job quest wasn't a character in the script and addition for all the other women in the script and then jeannie like pulled the creators of the show aside. And we're like. I don't care if she doesn't have a part that's already written in the script. If she's not fitting into the mold that you think you want for these different characters she has to be on your show and so like having auditioned for her all those times she had seen all these different qualities that i have and strength and she was like no one's in the character that you're totally right for us so we just need to figure out what show to squeeze you into and she basically forced them to create a job for me and it touches on what was saying about feeling like wait. This isn't this isn't the job. There's another step after. The addition there is part of me that just loves acting and so auditioning is like five minutes where i'd get to do the thing that i'm most passionate about so even if it's not gonna move onto more days of acting for five minutes i get to create a character and have choices i've made about the scene and it's like an expression of what i what i'm here to do. Yeah i think that there was something that we didn't have behind us. We didn't have the passion. Delete become a character and so we weren't really in love with acting. I think we're in love with the idea of it. And like being on the big screen and love of film more. So and i think we've kind of found like are true passion and how we can be involved in film a different way which are obsessed with like directing working behind the scenes and i think we have like future goals of that but but yet thank you. We're really excited. And i think for a long time. I wanted to be an actor. And then i kind of just beat myself up over it and just it wasn't the passion kind of burnt app for you guys. It never did and clearly Clearly never phases. There have definitely been phases where it starts to burn out. And i think that that's totally normal like i go through peaks and valleys and i just don't want to audition for this like goth character that i'm not gonna enjoy playing. I don't even want have to go there. But then there are times where i'm mike. I'll do anything anything anyone wants me to do. I'll do it joyfully and enjoy every minute of it. So i'm curious about is when we ever get recognized and people like you know will stop for somebody that they're stopping us because they watch our channel which is for the most part. Just us being us. Is it weird when someone stops you and they treat you like the character that you've played like what does it feel like or or does that happen. Yeah i mean that's kind of like you know why. I started the youtube channel. That was because i was starting to feel like you know the thing. I was most known for his playing captain. Marvel and it was making me nervous to have people go like godhra marvel and it'd be like no. I'm brief it was like she was mickey mouse disneyland like she was just a stop that people could. Yeah it was. It was crazy being at disneyland with free. Oh yeah yeah. Yeah and so. I think for me like wanting to continue to bring lake to play different roles into have humanity. I wanna just as as hard as i work to like work at a really high level in my job i have to work twice as hard to keep my feet on the ground. That's like a really important aspect of it That i like. It's like brushing my teeth. It's part of the process is like going like nope. I'm not this thing up here. Like i am here like i am better. No worse i'm just here with the people and Yeah so i think for me find. It's been about finding the way that i can continue to feel like a human being when i'm walking down the doesn't mean it's not like when someone comes up to me and they're like oh my god. Captain marvel means so much to me or it. It changed this for me or helped me see this in myself or help. Overcome an obstacle that's like beyond my wildest dreams. That's that's incredible. Yeah it's not like a couple of your art to in a sense the way you became that character and you made it so real for them that they could learn exactly. But i think for me. It's like i've confused people. Sometimes because sometimes people will walk up and they'll go. Oh my gosh i can. I take a picture and you know no but would you want to go for a walk or like. Would you wanna like a like an art museum and talk about this painting together. You know back when we were out in the world but like and it used to like even when i was with other actors they'd be like well. You're taking more time like why not. Just take the picture. Because like i'd rather get to know this person and have a human interaction than feel like i was just like stop along the way that's really cool. I haven't heard many people say that before. Either definitely say. I'm more for the interaction to like if someone like. What brought us together. Whoa this thing you saw that. I worked on like it brought together in this moment. Like what do we have in common. What can we gain from experience. Not that there is value in like having a photo. I love when my phone pops up. It's like previous memories and shows me so it's not to say that that doesn't isn't a value it. Just oh my gosh. We're here live on this earth together like what brought us together. That's really cool ship stace in other in other warships station ship station. There was the cool version. Even though ship station is already cool and we'll tell you why because they sponsor this podcast and also because you sell stuff online. 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Dolan twins make ship happen and good luck with your online business. I forsee billions in your future back to the episode. So i like you said you. You have to work with her to stay grounded other any practices the both practice to keep yourself grounded on a daily basis or routinely. Yeah i go to therapy twice a week. And i have for a very long time when i started working on films. Sometimes it'll either. You know fluctuates or maybe. It's once a week but questioning my thoughts getting things out. It's it's so big and it's also a huge part of my job in this year. Where i haven't been on a set and i've been sorta recalibrating and thinking what is the representation that i want to put on screen. What are the things that i'm interested in sharing going to therapy for me has been like such an amazing thing because i see like universal truths and insecurities mike my fears and my hopes that come out and i go like so. That's true and that's what's in me. And that is what i'd like to share It's really cool. Yeah when mean you guys have dedicated your entire lives almost two acting you starting at four years old and then moving here and dropping everything and you. You've worked so hard to get these roles you face rejection countless amount of times when you finally do get these roles in its everything that unit you live sleep and breathe and then once once. That project is all said and done. I can imagine that. There's definitely come down. And say what do i do now. You might whole life purpose is like okay. It's done right now for your done. Because like the last week of production. Everyone onset is going. Hey what are you doing next. What's your next project. What's going on on like. I haven't even finished this episode. Can we just enjoy this happening. And like i think. I think for me something. I've really been trying to tap into is being grateful for each step along the way instead of thinking about the final destination like we don't know how far along the pathway really going get so i don't wanna diminish every awesome thing. I get to live so french. So that question is like really been swimming struggle with and lately. I've tried to be like what's next is that i'm here right now and i'm going to really enjoy this moment but to answer your question it's horrible. I personally hate wrapping jobs. I get i get real dark. And i just feel really alive when i get to live my purpose and then i kind of tear myself apart when i'm not doing that. It's it's tough it's like an adrenaline. If you've ever had like a comedown from drenica it's it it's that And it requires. It requires care and in the last couple of years. I've become friends with a lot of athletes and One of our my close friends is a big wave surfer and it's been so interesting talking with athletes and people. Who do you know. Incredible things like that because they experienced same exact thing. So i've been noticing that there's these through lines of like learning how to care for yourself after my version of surfing. The big wave is really an important part of the process in worth acknowledging because it's it's can be depressing and it's one thing when it's just coming off of the adrenalin of like there was so much in my head to think about to remember and then there's also like getting to live in the skin of another person that maybe you enjoyed like. I really enjoyed embodying. Carol and captain marvel. I liked feeling that power. And then you're like. Oh and now. I'm just what's on my couch again. You know like. I'm not out there like spaceships. Like saving the world. Hypothetically like i'm just here but then there's the other aspect of the job insecurity of like now. I'm starting from scratch again now. I'm going back out. And i'm going back to these auditions and trying again. When will it work again. When and there's a lot of sense of like a lack of control and that because it's like okay well. What are the projects that are coming through in. Does that meet with me. Does that match me as tough. But i've jesse got me really until last chance you have you watched it no is. Is it a show so excited for you. Yes documentary good. I'm so bad at watching shows for some reason and nothing against them. I just like prepping myself to sit down to like know that better. Watch the full season hard for me for episode time. You can watch one episode and decide. You don't want to watch the rest. I also like i'll i'll probably end up binging and then i'm like they're six out. It's definitely worth checking out. And i've just found it like a lot of the stuff. We're talking about it really. I feel so much more normal when oh it's happening in football and it's happening in surfing it's happening in basketball like these things when whether it's like flow state or the come down for these things like it's part of like whatever's happening in our system. It's not just like an actor thing so comfortable knowing you're alone yeah i'll defer to check it out helps a lot and thank you for speaking about this on here. Like that's not spoken about enough. I feel like it could really really help some people. Tell me a lot hearing other people talk about it like you said athletes and people in different industries and. I'm glad that it's a conversation that's coming up because for a while it was just like you see someone on big screen and then they probably live amazing life and for us could really today in a sense of like video did really well prefer performance. We worked really hard to get videos. It would do well and then when they did we'd feel really good but then there's next week we gotta post and it's kind of like we're laid off that day too and so i guess i didn't realize that anybody else and other industries dealt with it. So thank you for sure really appreciate. Do you think that starting youtube channel to help out with that time between roles where you have like an objective or some to work on weekly right you post. Yeah i've been posting weekly. Well i think i do better at. I'm a better actor. When i feel like i have something else that i'm controlling for me. I like the clear distinction of like if you've ever been in a car sometimes and you have your driver's license. Sometimes you want to be passenger. Sometimes you want to be the driver and it's totally cool to feel within yourself which one you want. And so for me with the youtube channel. It's like okay. I get to drive the car. There and that allows me to like let off and not feel like i have to drive the car and be feeling like what's happening here like i actually enjoy acting whatever's happening with that and how that's unfolding in particular with like the unknown of the pandemic because i'm doing something for myself that's nourishing myself it's keeping me creative and that's also like doing. It makes me uncomfortable. I've hidden by an characters my entire career. Like all press interviews. Everything was always like. We'll talk about the movie and that's it and this has been like something was calling inside of me to say like i think that i'm like holding hiding behind this and using this time each week like do something that makes me feel like. Oh gosh allowed is a really great thing. I think to keep doing for your life. Yeah that just reminded me my first like fancy job or you like fly somewhere else. Shoot on location. They put you up in a hotel. I remember thinking. I was like on cloud nine and got to the hotel. And they're like. We need to your card for incidentals. And they swipe card and they're like you don't have one hundred dollars in your bank account. You can't sleep here. And i was like but i have to sleep here. I the company. Put me up in this hotel. I'm getting picked up in the morning to go shoot a show. I have to be here when i was so i was like. I dunno life skills enough to know what to do right now. And they're like we'll just pull everything. Valuable out of the room will empty the mini bar. And you can sleep here. And i was like okay. Great thank you so much. I'll have a paycheck tomorrow. And then i can swipe my card for incidentals but i remember like that process. I was still so happy so happy. And then going to say like feeling like a working actor for the first time in my life and going back to the hotel room. Where there wasn't like a kitchenette or anything. So i had to order food or go to a grocery store and kind of like stock up the room for myself and i remember having this meltdown on the phone. My mom and i was just wanna make an egg. I just want control. I didn't have a car in atlanta. Anytime i wanted to go somewhere. Someone else had to drive me there. I definitely remember feeling. Like i was kind of at the whim of the job and i wanted to have more control over it Yeah i liked being controlled something else. That's bring you happiness. Like i figured that brings a lot of balance to your life. When i put all my eggs in one basket unlike the youtube channel it it made me off. I'm trying to think of the word to describe it but it wasn't like i had resentment towards it but like an economy almost did Can take the fun out again. Because i was relying on it. And forget why you're there and why you love it in the first place and that was a that was a tough reality check because it started as such a passion like when i first started. I wasn't even making money purposeful. I didn't set up my adds because it was like screw it. We didn't make a dial a dollar until we over a million subscribers and then it was like a ken say was more fun back then but are there any other things that you're doing for fun like hobbies that you don't get paid for you never gonna think about making money or business out of and you're just you're doing it for fun. Like what brings you happiness. I do feel like the podcast is more for fun. Like i'm getting to really dive in and i'm doing legitimate research and reading full books just to interview someone and it's really expanded my schedule. I'm really enjoying having all these extra things to do. And and getting to see my best friend frequently. You know in a time where we haven't been able to see each other that much it's awesome. It's been really fun hobbies. Oh i mean. I'm always i'm a big fan of a hobby like crafting. I play a lot of video games a lot of games. He yells at me. 'cause i'm addicted of i play a lot of fortnight a lot. I didn't really see what happened to you. I've heard there's been a lot of runs last time. You play the season two. Oh my gosh it's gonna be blown really. Did you play season two. Yeah you remember the original lobby music. It's jacob you hear it nowadays. I feel like that's what i still have or you could probably switch to og. Yeah i played probably season to season. I don't know how to change things like that But i mean i play. I play constantly. Or i'll just do challenges and listen to podcasts. I'm it's like a weird video. Games have always been like a meditation for me. Like if i'm on set. And i'm doing a scene where i'm like. You know needing to hold a certain emotional space and then after like move the camera around or something. I'm there with like whatever. Hand-held nintendo device. I have and i'm playing like mario tennis or or whatever it is and it keeps me in flow holding that space and don't have to go back on camera again and yeah so i play. I play a lot of video game so it was a lot of people that are like you're so busy like how do you do so much i'm like i don't know because somehow i still have time to three hours of video games. Don't you definitely need to escape. I don't don't know. I just i have hours of as everybody else but it is a way that i decompress. I mean i exercise. There's like all things that i do like that but like video games for me. It's like a hit. The deep thing from since i was a kid. And it's like where where i go and it's a way of with fort nine like even animal crossing. I've been able to connect with friends and family through the game. All my friends through xbox when i was growing up legitimately because we had like three separate elementary schools and one middle school and we were all in elementary school so i met kids from all the schools before i even got there and it was all an xbox so call of duty cops of one and just listen to like the lobby music or like just look at some of the maps and almost cry. Because it's so nostalgic made so many friends doing that but it's like it's like escape from reality for me where i kind of missed the real world when come back into and i feel good so important because like i didn't like really appreciate my hometown until i moved to la. And every time. i go back. i'm like oh my god. It's so beautiful that seeing this. So if you like video games like that and like just short-term like you escape and then you come back but yeah. Everyone always tells me that. I'm like i can't get off the video games because it's like a waste of time but i like the analogy you made about being a driver versus a passenger and i feel like video games is really the only realm in which you could be like fully the driver. You know what. I mean in the real world. You're if i'm going to be honest. Always the passenger because like anything can happen at any time yes. That's very true. So i feel like that's not the driver in life is just an illusion. Games are just. You're in control. And that's fun. And i think it's been like a stigma around video games that if you play them then you don't have time for anything else and it's like i mean that i completely know what you mean and something. I've talked about at length. Because i'm in defense of the video game because i think i think that's such a crazy biased. Like the people. I know the play video games like work at a very high level. They're incredibly curious. They're problem solvers. What i mean. I'm on a show about video games. So i'm i'm surrounded. Video games in every interview we do. What's your favorite video game. If i say. I'm not playing video games right now. People are so disappointed in. I i mean i loved them and i think getting out of that idea like i feel like that's like oh bias and zone. You play video games. It's the only thing you do is like. It's not really that's not really young. I mean you could say someone like someone that watches sports. That's not competing in sports. It's like you kind of doing the same thing you're sitting down for an hour watching something entertains you at the same thing as someone sitting down playing video games. No one argues about that. It's the question is like why are you playing. You know if the answer is like. I'm playing because i wanna completely escaped from my life. Okay something you should probably take some time and think about. It's like i really like for me. I i'm super curious person. I love fantasy. I want the opportunity to play on a team with my friends and family. So it's all pluses for me. Yeah did you grow up playing sports at all. No i missed like being on a team. Like video games too. That's a good point. But i mean being onset is a team sport. I don't know if like like. I don't know if that's like fully talked about like i don't feel like we are onset and people are like lafayette you. I'm like oh my god like there's so much parallel to like offense and defense like all these different like head coaches and things like on especially on a movie like optima. There's so much parallel to that. About how different teams turnover and how. We're working together to make this larger thing happen. I think shooting during covid has really hammered home. The team sport vibe onset. Everyone agreeing to be safe. Everyone knowing that we all got tested knowing all the procedures that we were going through to make a tv show really unified every department and it was. it was lovely may vary emotional school. Yeah definitely have. Things changed like a guest dramatically. How do you continue to film right now. We wear masks all the time. The only time i take my mask off his for makeup and then we wear it for rehearsal we were constantly and then the only then when we take it off as like right before they're gonna call action and and then immediately after they call cut. We put our masks back on. Everyone eats lunch separately But it felt really. I was so nervous that it was going to be distracting. And i felt when i was actually doing it was actually Removing distractions because everyone there had a very specific purpose we all had a unified goal and there were no visitors onset. Like there wasn't any of the unexpected executive visitors. Were who take a half hour of your day which is always really nice to experience like it's nice that they kind visit. I really like those times but there was. There was no distraction. It was. I really liked it. And and my boss rob mcelhinney was saying when when things go back to normal. We should just keep wearing masks. Every season people pass a cold around. This just would completely eliminate that and so you block with a mask on shoe over the shoulders. Yeah yeah if we're doing like a reverse shot so like. I was in a scene with with charlotte nick dow and she's talking to me in them and then we get a wide shot of both of us in it and then we go to shoot her close up so i'm still herd scene partner but i'm not necessarily in the shot or they're getting the back of my shoulder. I would have my mask on. Well yeah and then everyone on the crew has their mask and a face shield all day long that they're taking the that it's not like you said you're kind of like more focus on the job. Yeah and we had to hold health and safety department which was great too. So there was someone in every corner of every room monitoring our safety and making sure that we are following the guidelines. And not that we were trying to break rules or anything. Just kind of helping guide us. Yeah i don't think anyone wants to break rules like yeah. Let's it's crazy at these times of like separated us in a sense. But i feel like you said before unified us more than anything so i feel like when we come out of this altogether. It's going to be. We have the appreciation for human interaction. Like more than we ever have. It was something that overlooked entire life until now kind of we talked about. It will video games escape for a little bit. Then you miserable life or but but that's really cool things are still getting made and we're doing it. The safeway brand is everything like are you experiencing the same thing. I only have shot to commercials. So they were each like one day shoot and i was like totally like isolated in a car. So yes math. Everyone's mass everyone's tested from your speakers and stuff. You haven't shot anything major. But i haven't done like what jesse's done so i haven't had you know the full the full cova. Have you picked up any like new hobbies during these times that during these times. Because i feel like i don't know just like being limited. I really creative. What i wanted to do to spend my how i want to spend my time and probably made a decent amount of permanent decisions that maybe only made. Because i'm out of my element but yet it's wanted to know about how it's affected you. It's kind of fun to know everybody else's stories you know. There's been a couple of times that i've asked people like what have you learned during this time and i've been surprised when people go. I don't think i learned anything. Mike powell I think the concept of like what's essential. What's a central to our being in. I mean that that's something that we can have right now. You know you might have a strong desire for something that is absolutely against a lot of time but knowing what that is in going like oh you know that really inspires me like for me. I've been like wow. I can't wait to go back to art museums. Like they always mattered to me. But now i'm like gosh like being there or being in the movie theaters like those are things that i do when it safe like i really. I really look forward to and i also have. I've learned a lot about myself in this time because with when it was when life was more open it was easier for me to get confused about what was my business. What with somebody else business. What was the world is. Because i'm tired because i'm overworked. Because this was like well now. I'm at home and if i'm like feeling something hundred percent of the time i know it's me it's my own thought that i got to work on and clear on like you know and so i feel like i've become like mentally and an individually like a. I don't know i'm more connected with myself than i was in the past because it was easier without with their naturally being so much less distraction. Oh god this happened the other day in the podcast to i get so wrapped up. Let's unitarian be like she's smart. She's gonna talk and then she looks like i'm on the ball question. I guess hobbies like what you cooking. I got out of necessity. I wasn't. I was so scared at the beginning of this so i started cooking on my own meals which i hadn't really done before and i started following chefs on instagram and obsessively watching videos on youtube. And that was real real hobby. That i feel like started was benefiting from was eating healthily. Love her. she's a chef. It's annoying when you go out to a store and you forget the thing that you went to go out to the store for i every single time do that. I never felt not do that. Well then grace in you should look into using cash. you know. that's something. I have been recently thinking about jordache connected with the restaurants you love and right to your door. And now you can get the grocery essentials that you need with door dash to get drinks. Snacks and other household items delivered in under an hour ordering is easy. Open the door dash app. Choose what you want from where you want. Your items will be safely left outside your door with contactless delivery. Drop off setting we over three hundred thousand partners in the us. Puerto rico canada. Australia you can support your neighborhood. Go to's or choose from your favorite national restaurants. Your favorite restaurant dash. I'm going to bet you that. It is for a limited time. Our listeners can get twenty five percents off and zero delivery fees on the first order of fifty percent or more when you download the door dash app and enter code deeper. That's twenty percents off or up to ten dollars value zero refusing your first order when you download the app in the app store and enter code deeper. Don't forget that's code deeper for twenty five percent of your first order with jordache. Subject to change terms may apply back to the episode. So i wanna ask you about about backup plans before you talking about. Interior design briefly. Is that something you're still interested in now. I'm terrible at it really. I've i've seen videos on the interior of where you're filming. It looks very nice of my home. Yeah yes we'll took a long time and it was very stressful. No i you know i. I'm just going to throw out there and like whatever the internet can run with it like space and time are not my thing. i am not gonna specialization. And i'm not gonna keep track of time. I have to use a gps to get anywhere So with that said it's like the idea of trying to like figure out how a couch fits into a space is just like oh my gosh. I'm a very creative person. Just like not my. It's not my strong suit. Yeah i mean even now like thinking of backup plans. it's kind of. It's kind of hard to imagine. Just because i feel him so i'm so deep in the craft that i'm in and i just wanna keep refining up getting better and better that it's you know it's hard to imagine something outside of that. I was talking more about just like do you have aside passion for anything else. I guess i guess video games. I mean you're doing the podcast and youtube channels well. Those aren't backup plans but there are other plans into in addition of what you're doing and working on backup plan. Probably just other jobs within the same industry producing directing combination. I actually don't want world domination. Have that. I really actually don't want that. I've thought about it. i don't want it. Are you both interested in the other fields in in the industry. Like directing producing. Yeah writing writing writer causes. Yeah so what. What do you mostly comedy base of it. A lot of my jobs as an actor. Still of have to be a writer. Because i do a lot of improvisation The process of creating a character is really different depending on the job but there there have been jobs for like. It's very clear as you're auditioning that they're actually not gonna care that much about the script and that they're they're trying to just hire actors who can basically right for themselves so there. There have been a lot of jobs where i like. Have the sides for the day full. Well we're not going to stick to him and so the whole margins just all jokes but also been as an all writer so all sit on set all day long and then just come up with new jokes to keep the scene fresh and keep him saying that's cool. I didn't know that actors like that scr relied on actress for themselves. That's interesting not always pay happens. There have also been jobs like on. Better call saul. It's the punctuation matters and there's no straying from the script and that's really fun and in a completely different muscle for me it a fresh school. That's cool and you're into like what would you say is writing like your second most favorite next acting or are they all kind of blend together. I really love directing brunei director short film together and that was really fun. I directed another short film. I got to direct some second unit stuff on the quest this season. I really feel in my body in a different way as a director. I really really love it. So i'm excited to do more of that. That's cool Love it we've directed project before and it like i. I kinda got that like we live the project full month where we were like writing it. Every single day refining the scrip sending it to people getting opinions going over And then when we were when we were filming it like i just felt amazing like at my best. I remember. we weren't even sleeping at all and Just like getting up in filming was just the only thing on my mind. I was completely like captivated and then when it was over i was like oh god. What's what's what did you now get. Directions definitely a really fun thing that i always thought when i would watch movies would be gosh. The director must have been like. How do you keep up with. What was going on your. How does she keep up with what was going on here because some of these are so complex but then you have to really break it down on paper. It's just like it's really interesting. What goes into it. i also love as a director. You're with the project the hallway three you get to be in the editing process. The pre production process and as an actor. This kind of a pain. When you know that you're done with your job at the show keeps getting made like i. I really love going. They let me go into the at bay for mythic quest and i love watching them compile scenes and stuff because i just like have separation anxiety with which and so as a director. You don't have to deal with that. Have you ever done. Take in your like in usa. You do ten takes. There's one that you hope they don't use them they do like. Have you ever felt like that. Yeah there's one shot that's a tv show done. You can find it on hulu i. I am like counting my steps to make sure that. I hit my mark at the at the time. I don't know if anyone would ever notice it when i when i watch it. I'm like that is a young green actor. It was like one of my first jobs ever. There's just like i walk so awkwardly marcus four steps away so i was like right left right. You must be on the mark and then i look at my feet and i'm like i am just so unnatural is it. Is it challenging watching yourself like an in the completed project to put your watch your preference. Yeah i can't watch videos in front of anybody. Anything that i've ever made of myself. I cannot watch for someone i approach. It can kind of like an athlete. Does not sound pretentious. Like watching dailies. I feel like i've learned a lot from watching myself. Oh i've learned things that work or things that i thought i was doing that. I didn't really do enough of or things i'm doing too much of. It's kind of like watching tape like last chance to to watch tape. You gotta watch your previous games. And so i really enjoyed watching dailies. I get very self conscious. Oh i don't unless there's something really technical that i'm not understanding or it's like a really complex like i remember. There is like one scene in room. Where i'm lying to my child and i watched the play back a lot because i was like how do i. How do i make it clear that the audience knows that i'm lying but he doesn't know that i'm lying like how do i thread the needle there and so that was something that i felt like. I had a very clear purpose. I'm watching to make sure that. I'm writing this line. And that's thought but i clam up like i just if i get if i get too close to what it is that i'm doing if i become too aware. Then it just spirals out for me. i'm like what. Why is my face here like oh have you ever looked in the mirror for too long and you're just like what happened like i thought i knew. Now i don't think that's what is like for me and then like hello like actually no. It's just horrible so intense. So it's like. I've i've with time i've had more distance the way that i can separate as mike. It's not for me. I don't make the movie to then. Sit there in the theater and be like i love when i did that i did. I did it. Because i like being on set doing things like. Why don't i enjoy doing the thing. And then i can let everybody else handle the other but i do love like when when a movie comes out you end up seeing the movie like four times maybe and then you sit in the bar or like you know you find something else to do at other screenings after the fourth. Watch washing you. I will for like four times. And then i'm over at times four times. I'm like i'm not watching the same five times. You know it's funny. Is that if you if you have the privilege of getting to do a bunch of qa days for a film you end up seeing the last ten minutes of the movie like thirty times and it's like you start to know every single q. Of room i know the last ten minutes so well. I don't know a lot of the rest of it but i know those groups in your first year we'll because you're standing backstage or whatever listening to it and you're like oh it's at this line okay. I got this many minutes until they're gonna call me out or whatever like i can go. The bathroom right can grab some water. Whatever you start to become very part you become very intimate with but someone came up in theater so much of my training as a kid was about like holding for a laugh and like feeling the back and forth energy between the stage in the audience and really missed that sometimes working on sets a really turned to the camera department and like unlike talk to me like tell me if things were funny you can laugh like i want this like communication that i kind of was trained on and so i like my favorite thing when i'm shooting like seeing someone trying to like hold the boom but they're like shaking because they're trying not to laugh out loud and like like this thing from the grips. I just love it. I just see it out of the current miami mike. it's working. it's totally push harder. But i missed that. Like audience reaction so. I really love when the movie comes out getting to in a couple of screenings and actually hearing a the laughs. It makes me feel good. Here's a laugh. Rooney shot like no behind the scenes. Someone laughing from like like ruined to take or not. No i love it and usually the mike can't pick up a village. So it's like my favorite is when you can audibly here the producer laughing video village and you just stay in the scene knowing that they're really liking it. Yeah that's nice mondelez. he's pretty easy to get level. You give is laughing. Show what mono looked like 'cause he's kind of just a mysterious gent but now people people know what he looks like. There wasn't a face to the laugh. Laugh so we were talking when you first walked in about our new puppy and we went over the euro dogs right. Yes only as of like four. Five years ago. I became really milers. Are going away so i'm on the other side. I will say. I think it does go away. If they came to look at a nowhere. I was chris my whole life and now for some reason because of him. Yeah i second. Second anchors. But i have a dog now and it's changed my life entirely name avalon or government name is avalon dolan. It's so cute. The vet they say your dog with your last. Yes oh yes bring your in avalon. Have a and yes. He was like deathly allergic. And i never thought. I'd see the day we'll get a dog. I was so scared because he would have asthma attacks. Every time we're hanging out with their friends with does or even if friends came over who had dogs and they had the for on them. He would like it was bad. Have terrible asthma. If you didn't have an inhaler he'd have to go to the hospital. So i heard an interview that you are allergic to cats and like that and die. But it's really yes. I have allergy. I'm actually in the top one percent of people with allergies. Not to brag about allergies. Yes i think my role yes. That's the one thing. I can bring the top one percent. It sounds like it for when you were talking about it. It's it's it's tough s really tough so onset. I really hope. Somehow someone starts listening to the podcast right when you say. I think i'm in the top one percent and then you say i am to and then both of you say it's tough and i think we're talking about money is gone. I really hope that the if you're just tuning in now allergies my question was our question was so onset when you captain marvel has a cat. Yeah and it's goose in the movie. yeah or how. How does that work work. Well i on the movie so we have the budget to make it work but no it's like it's actually kind of a bit of a protocol. Yeah because i made the mistake of trying to be cool like the first time. Because i like to believe that. I don't actually have allergies to cats. Because they're i would also like they're cute and it's like right there and nothing's wrong news and you're just like i'm trying to do my job. Whatever mike. it's fine. it's fine but they're like one of the first days with with the cat. The cat was like rubbing up on my jeans and my boots and stuff and it was like one part of the day and then i filmed for like the whole rest of the day or whatever and then i took my costume off and it was like all over my hands. I didn't even think about it. I wanted to go wash my face and it was just like oh like like so then after that i was like we have to like redo this. Someone isolated helped me wipe off the boots or whatever they touch. Because it's like it's not. Just i guess i kind of thought in my head. It's like well. I didn't touch the cat but it's out dander analogies. It's is tough. Because i would want nothing more than to have a cat friend forever. It's weird. It's it's really weird because i also have like allergies trees and grass whatever and it's just like high love the wind. Yes i love earth. Why am i allergic. Those are the things that i love him. Allergic to animals on earth. So why would any of us be allergic with allergies. Is your nervous system overreacting to something that it doesn't need to. That sounds like me. I guess on headset. Sound like what i would say. This is the fact that like. I used to go the other dogs to catch everything like that and i was like okay. I'm just going to act like. I'm not going to be allergic so that might wonder if this guy and then it never worked but yeah. I'm truly blessed. We have a miracle doll. I'm so happy of a miracle dog. You have dogs of your own right. Yeah belly and jonathan. Yes sochi. And i'm i'm also like allergic. Yes but it's too late i'm already love it's doing. He gives it to me about not taking care of abba. But i do. I just do the hard part advocate. Sleep in my room and right now. She's a puppy so her her hours of sleeping roll out of whack. The my hours of sleep. She's a baby bladder. but i can't have recipient my room. Because i'm still kinda nervous if like i'd have an asthma attack randomly some. I'm trying to make sure. And he's you know he's blaming my allergies. Act like they're my fault. We'll watch a movie. He'll cut cut with her on the catch two hours and then i have to shower her and then take her out the p take at four thirty in the morning. That's when we're sprinklers. Go off and it's pitch black and it's really dads do it with love. They don't complain gets by the sprinklers. This is he was. He was like yeah. Five winkler's could have anything argument when we started sorry about that. It's fine here this year. That's what this podcast is for. I've just needed to vent parent twenty. So you mentioned room before and that's one of our favorite movies of all time. Yeah you're freaking out. Yeah yeah here's the order of events so we we were tagged in a from lord. Diy youtube video where you said you watch our videos and we were like wait a second like we were really no way and then when you make anyone watches them and you have millions of subscribers time. It's a weird feeling. It's such a weird battle. It has its own things to it and a lot of times. I think youtubers have like a bad rep blake when it comes to like the public. I forgive you. Say or youtube or people look at you like like you've done something wrong. Just because a lot of youtubers have and kinda group together at one point so yes seeing. That was kind of took us. What the heck so christina was a fan of the movie room and she was a heavy guessing room for some reason we had we wash our minds. Were blown we weren't. We've been talking about for like two days and we talked about on the podcast episode to wash it until everybody to watch. I knew that it was amazing. As well thank you thank you thank you even more mind-blowing after watching you watch videos. It's crazy so i do the same thing as like watching movies in like. Oh he's never been us. We made when we were like sixteen and things like they were like so if we ever said anything stupid was our fault look there was no script so like i've embarrassed myself publicly so many times and it just has to say out there because if i take it down then it's even more a big deal all down in the post it and then it becomes even more embarrassing but so i guess i'm just embarrassed but all video not all the certain ones and we were young. We did it for so long. So how did you come across our channel. How did i come across your channel. i don't even remember. I mean. I'm subscribed paint you fees. I was telling him out. Fortunately no kidding. I don't know. I don't know if it was like it might have been the algorithm. Yeah it really might have been sweet algorithm back in the game. I think that's what it is. And i find like like certain youtube channels and jesse and i've talked about this quite a bit so soothing and especially when it was like the the beginning of the pandemic when it was like really just a lot of like it was so there was so much separateness Just having any sense of watching videos even it was from the past just like normalcy felt really comforting through definitely. Yeah i watched it to talk one time of like just the skit filming the interior of a movie theater from back. In the day and i was it was very soothing. Yeah and i think. I because i like grapple with my own fear of like being like hi. I'm brian this something that might be like seeing people be themselves on on the internet and also like if you say something but then later is like hey. Don't say that to take accountability for that. I think i think there's there strengthen that definitely it's definitely. I definitely heard a lot. Because of people's feedback becomes a point where it's like. It's a kind of. it's kind of haters. i guess and it gets you. Yeah yeah the bakers bake. Yeah so unfortunately. You're subscribe and like we. Unfortunately i haven't fortunate thrown unfortunate bridge subscriber and you have a big head but like we were kind of like not making youtube videos and i feel that video where you said that i told you. Are you talking about at great. It's fine if you live. Yeah we're onto something. We're onto something different and i guess we're kind of entering or wanting to enter the industry that you guys work in making a documentary right. We have me once it were right now. We haven't spoken about publicly but we're working on something that we are going to be like the writers and directors of these guys. Thank you during the down days. Are we talking about having more free time and the how to spend and we jumped into activism and like a lot of fronts great human rights animal rights racial justice and those are all things that really interests me and i want to make impactful projects about them one day and i just videos weren't cutting it for me. I feel like it was definitely entertainment but most of the time it was kinda just fun and it's really important to give someone a laugh but i also feel you can maybe give them a laugh or give them another piece of entertainment that they can remember for longer. Maybe changed for the better. Because of that i want to get into in my older years and i feel i can do it for the rest of my life so i figured twenty one at start now so get just like with all the information that i've gathered about activism and stuff we want to turn it into a project on a larger scale or larger than i've ever done and so we haven't really said anything about it. 'cause i guess we're nervous just because i don't know nothings promise and i want to say that i'm doing something do seemed like a failure but we wrote like an entire script to a movie screenplay first feature so we just took a stab at it during during downtime. And we just been doing that. But congratulations thank you. Thank you a lot. Who knows what will happen. It's just like it's a good like i. I never thought. I would write anything in my life. I just i liked english class in school. I just i didn't like reading that much. I definitely like i feel like i. I remember like loving writing now. That i've been doing recently listening to podcasts. In books on tape to people learn differently. I think some people are visual learners and some people are auditory learners. Just going to say you like reading but listen to all the books visual means like looking at yourself. If you don't like reading i understand i'm dyslexic. Yeah i don't know the words are saying that's why a podcast listener like religiously and he gives see what. What is your first episode. Airing for has it third week in march. Okay thank the twenty fifth. Maybe maybe the twentieth. I told you. I'm not good with space. Not one thing we were. I mean i can speak from it. I was so nervous. Shooting that first episode i was like b yourself but be better and i think people will i mean. I don't know if people are gonna tell our nervous when we watched it back like off your so serious areas. Well we got our first. Cut it back but we were. I was like why we both laughing about was like why did i talk so call me the whole time. I will be non-intrusive on my own. Podcast is like oh god yourself with these. Other people aren't going to pick up so that's why core but it's more of just like okay. Here's the thing if we're going to do is podcast. And it's going to be like jesse. And i'm being bree i gotta be brie. You know. I'm not going to be like in a way that hopefully you life and that's hard it's really hard but that's like an and so for recognizing like okay. This might be a little bit nervous but that's good. That means i'm stepping in the direction. I will be nervous about walking away from this much easier for me to be a character that it is to be like. Here's me. I think but i also think like brian jesse different. On day to day you wake up having some sort of you have to record that day or you playing scheduled to record that day and so you just who you are that day. Good point. I mean i also feel like we. We shot our second episode yesterday. And i felt so much more mice my body myself and and i think our interviews on the first episode. We're really. I felt like we were totally ourselves. It was just the intro rows like very serious mitchell. Yeah right about like being honest with where you are. 'cause i am even though i'm very critical of myself. I'm grateful that. In that first episode. I was like i'm having a really anxious day and say yeah you'll so much better. There's any place to libya. it's a podcast. That's why that's literally the main reason we created this. I want to be able to talk about what's actually on my mind with the people that watch our stuff. That's so cool. And it's great for the. You guys have that now to it's learning podcasts. Lending lots podcast bringing. Jessie are learning. Lots so you guys are going to do research or have people tell you facts. Yeah it's been it's been both. Our first guest is rupee. Cora who's a poet so to prepare for that interview. I read all their books and reread the book. I had already read than the the books i hadn't read yet. And i watched a bunch of interviews of her. And i watched barbara walters the art of the interview and took myself like a little. I was like. I need a skirt suit And then and then our second guessing jimmy chen who's Adventure documentarian career. Rock climber and incredible. I mean they both were incredible guests and our first topic was comfort so we talked about both of the book. We talked to both of them about their understanding of comfort. And what makes them comfortable and uncomfortable Like our plan is that we'll have fan submissions. So fans can submit different topics and then we'll randomly select topics and that'll push us outside of our comfort zone to not just choose topics that were interested in but then at times dive into topics that may be like. I don't know if i connect with that. Or i don't know if i it's kind of braved learn on the fly publicly. You know you might learn something new literally on your podcasts. Or it seems like that's what the goal is. Yeah so that's breathe. It's been fun. I mean. I really yesterday was really fun. We had on yesterday. Well we can't say i. I definitely learned everyone listening to this. Is going to want to listen to. Yeah i definitely feel like. I'm learning a lot and it's it's fun awesome congrats. You guys want to come up with an episode topic for us for you to do. You should talk about also media. I think is a good topic interesting. This on different. Don't be afraid background. Be open about like the the bed sides of it. Because i feel like there are and you have to kind of talk about it seems to really polish world much like the acting was and then you don't realize there's a lot of things that are similar to like rejection or you know all unfairness in the industry so Yeah it'd be. It'd be cool for you guys. Thank you so had. I wanted to say. Oh oh you should just not the people listening you said fan suggestions and we've been trying to have this this hotline open for people to call in and we haven't been able to figure it out but i came up with an idea. We have our instagram account at deeper if you guys listening wants to. Dm a voice memo of yourself. This is more for spirit. Positively shouts but the voice memo to the account will be listening to that on. The podcast doesn't have a video in for the fans or is it just kind of figuring that out. You want to be able to do submission so it's not just like the two of us. We're trying to figure that for the longest time and we're flop so we didn't figure it out but those hoping resorted something quotable we'll let you know what we've figured out. He goes everywhere. Call in with the topic to -solutely also. Well i feel like we should feel good. I feel really good. This i learned is the play. You guys are great. Podcasters make for great hosts on your own podcast. Thank you so much for coming on. Thanks for having us for having us. Of course thank you. Thank you for listening. Everybody out there listening to the podcast and watching. If you're and what else do i have to say. The least we'll do later. I thank you guys show. Well hello again. It's just us two and we are doing the altro if you've made it this far. Thank you so much listening to the episode. I hope you enjoyed it as much as i did because i certainly did. I learned a lot had fun. Bringing some talked about production old memories. There's lot we can take away from this episode. And i really appreciated the conversation that we just had and glad that you guys ran on it so thank you guys. Want to press a subscriber. So you don't miss any more podcasts. We're going to be doing similar to this one where we have guests on. And we just have open deep compass and Hopefully learn about something meaniful meaningful meaningful. Sorry you have to learn how to speak if you're going to be guesses Yeah that'll come to but thank you very much again for listening and we will see you in the next episode if you press subscribe and if you're just listening to talk to you in the next episode okay. It's been an app. thank you love you. Let's get next side of the cheesy deep next a while. I observe season to disregard that. We'll see you guys next time season two first episode back. Okay had the pressure over here.

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Working: The Pulitzer Wont Change Playwright Michael R. Jackson

Slate's Culture Gabfest

54:33 min | 8 months ago

Working: The Pulitzer Wont Change Playwright Michael R. Jackson

"Hey they're working listeners before we start the show, I want to let you know about a fascinating story coming up. You'll hear it midway through today's episode. It's from one of our partners UNICEF UNICEF programs in. Lebanon. Even during this pandemic and in the aftermath of the Beirut explosion continued to empower young entrepreneurs like Helene and gotTa. Not too long ago they figured out a way to change the day to day lives of local and refugee women by teaching them an invaluable skill stick around to hear Hanini and story. Everything about pointed, a black church is like being in a play in a gospel. Liked all wrapped up in one like on during performance. The pain and the ecstasy of like being in the church for the is that like the music is so beautiful and the content can be so painful. Welcome back to work income your host June Thomas and I'm your other host Isaac Butler. Isak. Today will be hearing your fantastic interview with Pulitzer Prize winning playwright. Are Jackson whose voice we just heard. And you know just thinking about his musical strange loop had me really nostalgic for nights spent in the theater, a someone who has dedicated a huge amount of his creative energies to theater how are you coping with the loss of public performances right now? Well, there's a way that I feel fortunate in that. I, have a book deadline looming in November I have a child who's about to start kindergarten I have this podcast. And I'm actually in the middle of. Eating a live multimedia work that I co created for Bam next wave to be streamed online in the fall and those four things take up an enormous amount of mental energy. So I feel in a weird way like I don't really have the space time to miss it. But as soon as I have downtime, I know that longing is just gonNA. Come you know and I just had A. facetime coffee chat this morning with the director friend of mine. He actually gave me one of my first jobs in New York City, and at one point I said to him. It's so weird. This is the moment when I ask you what player working on and how's it going and you're not working on a play and we don't know how it's going. We don't know when we're GONNA come. Back. And he said Yeah and we don't even know what theaters are going to come back or how long it's going to be your what that's GonNa look like you know no and I mean I think that's another one of those things that it's just as well that we don't know just yet because it is not gonna be Pricey there are going to be so many companies not only theaters but museums performance spaces. Just so many opera houses, opera companies that are just GonNa have close or be a shadow of their former selves. It's hard to see anything positive coming out of this current moment for the arts. So it feels like another thing that good that we we have a lot of other stuff eating up our mental space because if we could focus on that, we'd be extra. Sad. Yeah absolutely. I mean the nonprofit arts scene specifically the nonprofit theater scene in. America was essentially. This is a simplification, but it was essentially created through funding received from the Ford Foundation, and then the ideal was the nea was going to come in and it was going to kind of sustain it from there which never really happened, and as a result, the theater in America has always been in a state of financial crisis, and so there's not a lot of reserve. There's not a lot of surplus. There's not a lot of room for these this kind of major structural shock and it is very scary right now I just try to keep my head down and get my work done and deed I mentioned. Earlier that Michael Jackson won the Pulitzer Prize drama. This year and wikipedia informs me that he is the first black musical theatre writer to win the award, which is mind blowing what do working listeners who are not familiar with the show need to know about a strange loop. Well, one of the things they need to know about the show is that it's incredible. It's it's really brilliant. It's one of the best musicals I had seen in years, and it is also stream of what you can go to spotify or wherever you can. You can listen to it today if want to, and hopefully you'll be inspired to but It is also incredibly dizzying and self referential on some level. I think for many listeners, the work of Charlie Kaufman might be a good starting point for the kind of mind that you're dealing with here. That's the screenwriter who wrote adaptation and. John Malkovich. A Nama Lisa you know stuff like that. So a strange loop is about a young gay black musical theatre writer named usher played by the actor and comedian Larry Owens who shares a number of biographical details with Michael, but is also not Michael and usher is working on a musical. That is very much like a strange loop about a character very much like usher who's working on a musical. Very much like strange loop and so on and so forth. AD. INFINITUM and usher tries to figure out how to do this. He is surrounded and at times tormented by his thoughts and I. Hope the way I said that conveys the thoughts as capital T. in it. So the thoughts are the rest of the cast through the course of the show and they also play all of its other characters. Well What else do we need to know about Michael Well one of the things that make strange loop so special is the way that the show really goes there about a host of various subjects It's a really fearless musical it is not pulling its punches even while it is incredibly funny I mean to just give one obvious example the song we're going to talk about in today's episode is called AIDS, is God's punishment the show is provocative, but it's artful at the same time and I say, all of that as a way of answering your question because I think all of that is true of Michael Who's an artist I admire greatly. I mentioned this briefly in the interview. But in the years before strange loops, Premiere Playwrights, horizons, you would see Michael Posting these kinds of poems to facebook and you'd never be sure if they were true stories or not. If they want to buy graph or not much like the show and they're addressed to a roommate who may or may not exist and they were these beautiful devastating funny and fearless poems filled with vulnerability anger about being a black gay man in this world and to me that's Michael and that's also his work. I have just one last question which is at one point in the interview. Michael. References performing an early peace at Ars Nova so for folks who don't know what kind of venue is that? Ars Nova. Well, in terms of size, it's actually quite small venue. That's a real pain in the ASS to get to. It's on like fifty four in the west side highway But in terms of cultural impact in theater and performance and comedy in New York, it looms very large I'm pretty sure our previous guests coal school has performed there many times, but it's probably best known as the theater that developed and produced the musical Natasha Pierre and the Great Comet of eighteen. Twelve. All right. Well, let's hear your conversation with Michael Jackson. We all know somebody from Boston, you know back guy or girl who wore New England Jersey to. Thanksgiving. Dinner who swears that their dynasty never cheats and they probably speak their mind loudly. But even when they're double parking or picking a fight with the New York Fan, our Boston friends are always the first ones to lend you a dollar. They tell it to you straight and they're the kind of people you'll want to share a beer with especially when it's their hometown brew a Sam. Adams. Because let's face it, there's nothing better than a crisp refreshing Boston lager. So grab your favorite drinking buddy and crack open a SAM. Adams. The beer that brings together new Englanders and non new Englanders alike, just stay when they're watching sports. The Boston Beer Company Boston Massachusetts Savor the flavor responsibly. Before we get to the interview I. Just wanted to mention that this particular episode, we actually have some bonus content for our slate plus listeners to really fabulous stories. The first about Liz, fair the second about Tyler Perry both of whom were in their own ways important to the development of a strange loop and both of whom Michael met while doing the show. And you can join slate plus today to support the what we do here on working the rest of the magazine. Sony thirty five dollars for the first year, and you can get a free to trial right now at slate dot com slash working plus. So Michael There's so many things that we could talk about but I just decided I wanted to leap in with the thing I've had a lot of curiosity about ever since we learned you were going to come on the show and that's just what is your process like right now like where are you? What are you working on? How are you working on it? What are you up to this moment? In this exact moment, I am in Williamstown, Massachusetts courtesy of the Williamstown theatre festival who brought some artists up to give us some residencies and through time away from the city. But I coincidentally had been wanting to come here because I've had this idea for a while of a horror movie that would be set in a town like Williams tear. And I recently in the last couple of months, the frame of that form film, his comments, a focus for me, and so I've wanted to come up here and like. Drinking the town watch horror movies and sort of like. You know just go into that zone. Is this your first non theatrical project that you're working on. Technically yes. I took screen writing classes when I was in Undergrad but not written a screenplay on my own since then is it nice to take a break from the stage and try a different medium? It is but like in some ways, I don't think of it is different because it's still all about the story, and so I have to go through the same in some ways to the same substance figuring out like who, what, where, when, why, beginning, middle end you're. In the time since a strange loop, which you know your breakthrough musical, which was at playwrights horizons in the time since it's closed, several big things have happened there's been a global pandemic. At, Williamstown. But there's only so much of the town you could probably drink in right now and and among other things that pandemic has closed almost every theater in the world. There are also the widespread an ongoing protests in the wake of the murder, of George, Floyd, and of course, the third thing is you you you you won the Pulitzer Prize. And I'm interested in you know there's a lot going on that like does that any of that change your process you have to kind of shut out everything in the world to work. Do you let the world in I mean I mean how is all of that adjusting kind of how you work day today? It's a seismic shift in everything for me to be honest are. In so I guess the way it's changed my processes that I'm. Gotten a lot more internal with with the work that I'm doing and how I do it in some ways. For the most part I'd like it's become a very introspective. Quieter Times online in terms of process whereas you feel like your previous process was much more extroverted like I remember you posting kind of poems or interesting monologues and ideas on facebook a lot. For example, there was there's a series of poems to a fictional I think. Like two thousand eleven to two thousand, fourteen kind of years right was that and those days are gone. Because too many people are paying attention to what you say now. It's partly that, but it's also that. Doing that was like. Knee trying to create an how to platform on which they had my work done, and then I think professionally, I had a platform onto which to get my work done and I just didn't need to use the platform in the same way. So how is that process different if you're not sort of sending your ideas out into the world? Are you finding that to be challenged? You have hunger to be like, I just really want to post a rant about this thing or whatever. I do. Many many brands about many many many things. But I like also and not in the mood for a cancellation. Because like everything I WANNA post. We'll get any cancel in the year twenty, twenty every single thing. I'm so mad about so many things. So many people some the ideas so many bandwagon so many. So many things that are bothering Michael Jackson's Day, and yet what I'm finding is that exercising the discipline to put that into my work is what I have to do. More, than anything So For me, it's about just being a lot more thoughtful about what I'm doing and why and doing it because I feel specially with theater at this point, it's so precious and so like I wanna make sure that I like giving it. The the respect and the honor that I need to give it because that's where all of my attention goes into my work. There is a lot of that tension and a lot of those the what is bothering Michael Are Jackson. Now in a strange loop, the a lot of it's in there. Eighteen years. Eighteen years. I'm not sure even our listeners were familiar with the show actually know that it took that long to come to fruition. So what is for people who are unfamiliar with it? What is a strange loop? What is the show? What's it about? What's it doing? A strange loop is what I call said referential as opposed to autobiographical musical about a young black gay theatre writer who works as an usher at a Broadway show who's writing and musical about a young black Indian school theater writer who works it's. Probably show he's writing a musical about young black is gonNA writer who works as a national Broadway show Addison item and sort of sorting through his own perceptions of himself and his own self hatred. And those are of course, dramatized as his kind of chorus of thoughts that play various roles throughout the show. Correct. You mentioned that the musical is self referential rather than autobiographical, which I think is really. Fascinating what do you see as the difference between those two things because obviously the temptation is a listener or viewer of the show is to it as autobiography and some people do even tell them that. But for me the distinction is. I think of an autobiography is being sort of linear one to one ratio of life events to fictional events whereas a strange loop I drew from my own personal experiences, but I definitely fictionalized quite a lot of it and so everything isn't just like a dramatization of something happened in my life. There are some things that happened a hundred percent. That's what the thing happened. But like there are other things like I made it up and so if anything it's emotionally autobiographical. I felt everything that the character who is the protagonist has dealt but I had not. It's not a documentary that's the best way to describe it. Yes. So let's talk about the original version of a strange loop. Was it called a strange loop still at that point or? It was only a monologue I did had no thoughts of it being musical. Any music I was what I, it was just a straight up Mama. I wrote my last year as a play writing student at Nyu. UNDERGRAD. UNDERGRAD. So I was like twenty, twenty, one years old and life about to graduate with a player degree I didn't know what I was going to do with my life and so I wrote this like thinly-veiled personal monologue why can't get work? that. was about this young black and and walking around New York wondering why life was so terrible and like it was that, and then in Grad school I went in as a book writer who was learning how to write lyrics because I had never written lyrics before I musical person having grown up in Detroit piano lessons from age eight. I was in an all city classical choir I played piano for church. So I was I had lots of musical ideas, but I didn't know how to write lyrics. So. Then once I went to Grad school and learn how to write lyrics, I had an idea of what song for them was, and then I just happened to get an assignment from my teachers saying if you're who's never written music and want to try it and vice versa. So taking what I learned about some form, I decided to take my musical impulses and try to write my own song and the song came out of that was the Sung memory song, which is depend on cement song artistry loop. By four high. School. Gyms Sneaky Cup cake these Amanda Murray's these are. Shooting hoops author Ram slow on the uptake. Manda res. Res Accurate Chamba Locker Room is photographing naked. Me Measures in four and a half. Suzy's or my res Pisa. Arena. Black. Boy. I knew. He turned his back on the low. Back, away I who turned his back on the. Again that time it was only a standalone. Song. A lot of the lyrics were different at that point. But like it was liked well enough by my classmates and my teachers that I was encouraged to continue writing my own music even though for my thesis project, I was going to be paired with the composer Rachel heaters and we're working on our our musical only children and so I just kept writing music on the side just for myself. And then I have working with the director had read the monologue heard some of the songs that all their personal and they seem to thematically overlap with what the monologue was, and we started trying to figure out how to put them together, which is what turned it into this one man show called fast food town, which was a dead. It's a dead song that. Was this, which is another sort of version of the monologue, but with music. And then I performed it one night ours no, a two, thousand, six or seven or something, and when running people came like two people walked out and I like from that experience how they learn something about the piece. But knowing that didn't want it to be a one man show I didn't want to be like a cabaret act. I've wanted to be a proper musical albeit probably unconventional one, and so that's when the director ended up sort of partnering with the Plants Round To crack like what the book of it was. What was. So that's GONNA turn into a strange loop though it was still very different from what people would come to see later on at playwrights horizons. Once you're at that moment where you're you're cracking at, you're taking it from this one man show I. Think you called it a proper musical, right? You know. But I assume there's sort of like a lot that you need to learn to be able to take this and make it your first show that you're writing the book and lyrics and the music for what I had to learn was like. What the story was like I'm a story within writer and like I just because it was a piece that was drawn from personal experience in like. and. Yet trying to be have something that has a beginning middle and end. Like I didn't there was no beginning middle end to my life and so like I 'cause I, know what the formal conceit was because the pieces about a young black writers struggling but I was that so it was almost like. The piece was a mirror to me and the more I like whatever I knew. It would move. And so until I knew what it was, it was always going to be. Moving. That like I could never cuts up to until I was able to like cat you're exactly what the problem was in the story I. was, living my life in like I, like trying to go what's my struggle and therefore what's ushered struggle and It wasn't until I started going to therapy that light I realize the problem was Oh, you think something's wrong with you. And there is nothing wrong with you and once I captured that that was what? was something's wrong with him he's gotTa fix it. And that that to sort of strange loop. Sort of structure became like that. I knew what I was chasing a bit. That's interesting. It's almost like once you moved a bit beyond where usher is in his life. That's right. You had. Enough distance to then she could see it I. I had like. Perspective and I didn't before so like it then became like it was a character and it wasn't me it was a different and then I can then I was able to start victimizing things I knew how to like move story points around how to like The characters suddenly the thoughts had an identity because they didn't have one before that they just were like Randolph? Characters. It just like it just became a sharpened up quite a bit. So you're developing the shell and you are the writer, you are the composer, you are the lyricist I know for example like I know a few writer directors who are always really careful not to make it too easy on the other half of themself know like if they've written a scene that's tough to direct, they're not going to rewrite the scene to make it easier to direct. You're playing these three very important different roles co creating it. Did. You have moments like that where you're like? No, this is a composition problem and even though I could fix it in this way, it has to be solved melodic. Negotiate your collaboration with yourself. I think because. so much of the piece was like Sung based that like. I think all my collaborators got along really well with each other and it just became a story problem. No matter. What if it was a music problem? It was a story problem. It was alert problem. It was a story problem like it was always like what is going to tell the story of like all of it like the turns of the. Arts so that the style of it, the tone of it, like all of that was like, what is the actual story but also because I'm someone who writes all three things I of my director is my collaborator. So like Stephen Bracket ended up becoming super important in as a matter tackle, he played like a a really crucial parliament's development because when he came in to direct refers reading he worked on. When he had read the script. We cast this with all black and queer people. And that's not what it had been before us are the main character was black and queer. But the other characters were like there was a reading where Aaron markey played one of the parts like it was just like all kinds like this peace had so many different pieces of Chad Goodridge played. Like there's so many things can happen so many times and like when he suggests offered that up that it brought out. So many things were already implicitly a part of the peace, and so then I began writing explicitly toward that concept, which then started forcing it to change a lot of ways, and then especially when we cast it like it just then it was like, Oh, the these bodies that this story is on right and like that and I just enact created a whole other part of its journey. We'll be back with more of Isaac butlers conversation with Michael Jackson in a moment. Many Mahmoud that must name is Hans I am Palestinian from Syria. I live with my parents I am divorced with two kids. Knows what life brings as a refugee in Lebanon? So does your friend Ghada? submitted. My name is Cada, I am Palestinian and I live in sugary and I am nineteen years old they both faced significant hurdles in their search for suitable work and so together, they decided to make big change. excluded. We. To Golden Scissors project. As we saw, it would be the only successful project enabling us to find work in the future. Something concrete on the ground there gifted seamstresses and want others to develop the same skills, sewing garments and making handicrafts. Project teaches unemployed women and girls to earn a livelihood and support themselves and today the covid nineteen pandemic poses even more financial and health challenges. Even around, we stayed at home. Hopefully if the pandemic ends in the Arab world, we will move on with the project should be obtained the financial assistance needed to launch it. Still Anina gotta have laid crucial groundwork in creating golden scissors at this critical time the. Home in the community here, a lot of people showing. A lot of people need to have garments shortened. Schools and kindergartens need for instance aprons. There is a continuous demand it does not stop. There's always demand. The crisis would not put into that. No one will live without close. To support the work of organizations like Golden Scissors visit. UNICEF DOT ORG if you can please consider donating. One of the things we love to do with this show is help solve your creative problems whether it's a specific challenge about your work for a big question about inspiration and discipline send them to us at working at slate dot com if when we can, we'll put those questions to our steamed guests. Welcome back to working no, let's return to Isis conversation with Michael. Are Jackson. One Way I thought we could talk about your process and about this shows to look at a specific part of the show specific son and so I thought maybe we could look at what I guess is in some ways, the emotional climax of the show, right which is the precious little dream slash AIDS is God's punishment. I can you explain to our listeners what this track is and what's going on in the story of the show at this point for people who don't know it? Okay. So the thing you need to know to sort of get into track is that in a strange loop affair, the musical theatre writer is trying to write this musical strange loop, which is about a black music theater writer whose works in Sir Blah Blah Blah as I described earlier and as part of that story is dealing with lots of different forces in his wife which include his parents in and his mother in particular who is very sort of Her vision of him as a writer is that he would be just like, Tyler Perry who writes Gospel plays in and broad comment movies starring media like that's like to her that's like a writer is with an explicit Christian component but in. Quitting. Here's a lot of sort of casual homophobia he and his dad, the whole family is sort of aimed at him so. Over the course of the peace and He and Arthur. Disgusted by the idea of right anything like our Erie but also his. Like rhythm to rate something like Tyler Perry, because he sees it as a money maker and so struggles with like not wanting to. Sell out as it were in to make something that he feels are typically worth his parents but what ends up happening is that? Because his parents and his mother in particular are so like. Hard on him about sexuality and. He finds that he can't communicate with them his mother in particular in any other way other than to sort of like create this Gospel play that pulls her into which NASCAR play is as it's called guys punishment, but it begins with an argument of Jessica. Arguing about. How disappointed he is in him and in how embarrassed he feels by the fact that his sort of explicitly gay themed music has made it out into the air and the community back home. Repeat, repeat God after. I'll. Do all the things that I been. Of My stomach. As you would tap. The homosexuality of. Try. Just be the daughter. Argue about that, and then he's sort of start goes back to. The. PHOBIC tirades which causes him to sort of explode in creating this sort of a satirical. But like really charged gossip place style after what he proceeds Tyler Perry style Gazal plays or gossip plays in general frankly to be like what they look to him but using his own life as a experiences and points of view as the ICONOGRAPHY. Of that Gospel. It is very important that we remember what God's word. Toddlers, word And every. Body is where does AIDS is God's punishment thin. You saw brother sickness. Who Live in Rye Arts punishment. He. The Gospel play and it's music give you a kind of ready made musical form for the Aids is God's punishment saw. But. Precious little dream does not have. There's not just like a mother disappointment in her son Song form sitting out there as far as I know anyway. So how did you figure out what the music vocabulary of that half of the song was going to be? So that half of a song used to be an early song that I wrote and it used to be its own self contained number. That was just I didn't know what it was going to be in or how is thin on the it was just own little song wasn't even in you didn't even write it for strange loop. It was it was a b sides. I think that like I imagined that it might be a strange loop but like at that point as the it was so early in my process that strange Luke wasn't even. Like I haven't even begun working with. A director on the one man show version it was like the song that like had some thematic overlap but I didn't know. What we're out with into anything because it was such a massive. Moment just on its own. And then like you know years later at some point, like it just made sense to return to it, and even at that point, it used to be an early draft. That that that self contained version was how the scene ended and there was no, it's got personal at all. For people who didn't see at playwrights horizons that moment also has sort of the shows biggest Khuda Yatra, which is the set transforms into the set, of Gospel, play but. Our giant illuminated letters that say aides right HIV they say. The same. The Cross is the positive, right? Now. The Not and that that was also another thing about processes that that wasn't written into the script that was that was the set design set design. Inspiring all the rest of us because we thought it set not all I was like, Oh, I can go even further in the text then was there. Because that moment goes very very far. I mean I. Remember sitting in the audience watching the and the audience's reaction because the stuff that's being said on stage in that moment is really hateful and upsetting. And then it's framed in such a way. That's hilarious. Know that it becomes ridiculous it's upsetting and you're laughing your ass off at the same time and you and I we both lost friends to AIDS. And this was another component of okay. At that stage, it was just this sort of like darkly funny satirical take on. The. Via of in families and churches and everything. But then the thing know happening was that like a very dear friend of mine who was actually originally slated to work on the show as the orchestrator. I found out that he had aids and that he had been. Hiding it. From everyone for like a decade and had not been taken, any medication have not been like an e- sort of I went to visit him in the hospital in the last of his life and one thing that he shared with me was that he had throughout like if God wanted to live that, he would live Goggle to die and that he's sort of jokingly overtaxed. Told me that he thought AIDS was God's punishment. referencing show like just became this like very real life thing for me in a way that it not that hadn't been because I also in the development of the peace. Out of a bunch of Friends of mine were HIV positive who shared that with me. After seen Breen's of show or whatever, and that just got me thinking in general about like black then and like HIV and. Where are we dealing with this? WHO's writing about it and like I, because I'd been in my own development because of like a lot of the sex negativity that was ingrained from childhood I had a very different road than a lot of my peers who were positive you know. And so Just. Sitting face to face with like a friend who was dying, which I was deeply in denial about and that last month like I literally was like okay. Now you're told me and I'm going to save you like that's like what I believed and when he died. I just was destroyed me like I was just like a to this day emotional about it because it is something I feel should not have happened and yet when I look at his circumstance, which is near as my own in. So many ways I see all the ways in which society has failed people with HIV and black men in particular. And so then I was like, Oh, this piece actually has to have a human cost to it, and so I sort of invented this character to sort of nearer. Him in a certain way. But also, just like the rage that I am a sir had about the way in which HIV AIDS is talked about getting you know how deadly it is for people like us. Right and then. At the same time I mean there's that real cost to it but then there is also this brilliant frame that allows you to stay in the Theater Walt's going on right so so so That's church because church is actually the first place that I've learned theater. Because it's so presentational and I grew up in church plain like every Sunday Sunday school at nine twenty service at eleven. Devotion somebody lady gets up and goes announcements. The past course will be singing on Thursday night at. Mount. Church bubble Bobo Blah are thought for today is when prices go up listens come down like if everything about a black church is like being a play in a gospel choir every week but the truth of the Gospel play also. Going home after you go, you go out to church you go to hop is to get a bucket of sickened and then you go home and get on a speakerphone and start talking about what somebody was wearing or what's like did or said at Church that night and then but then you're gonna go back next Sunday and be like praised. Jesus. To you and. Those studying homosexuals they're going to burn like it. All is wrapped up in one. Mike ongoing performance. And I wanted to try to capture as much of that. Is as possible and all it's like gnarly growth but like joyful and entertaining known, which is why I ask people after the show. There's a known that when they're invited to clap on the two and the three to the song and I was asked people who did you clap or did you not clap and it is not a trick question but like I'm interested in like did people when they were asked to clap along to aid the scots punishment what was their natural inclination because that's part of what? Is the pain and the ecstasy of like being in the church is that like the music is so beautiful and the content can be so painful. It's interesting that moment for me was very much like well, I, WanNa be a good audience member. Support this work, and it's asking me to do this thing and the other part of me was like well, I can't. I can't do that with what they're asking me to clap four like the the frame and the content there really get heightened within you. Yeah and that, and I think that that's what it's like if you want to know what being a black man in the churches like that's what it's like is I want to and yet like it's constant potent. Paul that's that's that's what it's like to be a black gay south where can be one version of it? That's the it's forcing the audience to gripe take on. This identity that that may be close to them or may not. But like you're, you're asked the cause. Is God's punishment. Yes people, and then it's also like sort of a point theatre. People are constantly asking musicals wanting some black people to take them to church to which I say, you want to go to character but grab your Bible. Let's go. Let's go. You want you want people squally to the heavens they swamped but what are they squally? Yes and you put some of the shows most satisfying vocal harmonies or most surface level. Delicious vocal harmonies right at that moment. With My. Yeah. I've wanted to be like literally. A macab celebrates because the music is beautiful. When you're in these scenario when you're any churches, these people, these choirs, these soloists, they are like gorgeous like Kim Burrell has one of the most beautiful voices ever and he is one of the most homophobic when in the coach irks. Yeah And unabashedly homophobic. AIDS is God's punishment also has some choice words for pieces that closer to a New, York theatergoers heart like the normal heart and angels in America for the Black Gay HIV positive experience being left out of those stories. You you are writing a strange loop to some extent from a outside the industry. Pov Right. especially at the early part. You're. Now I mean you've won the Pulitzer Prize you're. Now you're now part of the industry you are. You're not an elder statesman, but you're a statesman at this point, right? And one of those bracing about that show is how it is both carefully crafted and feels uncensored and unfiltered at the same time. That's part of what what I, what I, what I think of your work. I think of that is maintaining that now. That that. You're sort of more part of that world is that a struggle for you? Oh as It is a struggle because. I mean, don't get me wrong I like recede winning the Pulitzer. Like it's opening doors from the. Great for? Humbled all those things but there's always going to be a part of me. That is like. And just like that boyfriend. Detroit's like. The one that runs his mouth and that like I'd like. For example, one of the publicists relates we show asked me if I wanted to get a check on twitter. And I was like, no, because I end the People's in other Pulitzer Prize when are under People's Pulitzer Prize winner? And the and the Wendy Williams musical theater like you're in the book I wanted to. Ascertain it just wants to be with the people and not like on high and yet. To some extent, that's how people perceive and or three depending on where the Intersex sometimes and so but like as a as an artist might impulse is to always tell the truth. Even, if it's like inconvenient or or ugly or pain for whatever like I recently heard this description are from Kate Bornstein of eloquence that he heard from a Buddhist monk or something that describes the word outfits as the tally of truth to ease suffering. And I found that definition to be so useful away to think about what it is that I want to do in my work and in my life frankly is that I always try to resist anybody or anything that tells me that I have to like be careful because we're to me living in like. Careful time for times when we need people to be loud and crazy and like. But helpful you know like I feel very much. Theater is a is a place that can that should bring people together. And that's what I. Love the most about it, and if I can create work that can help bring people together from all different backgrounds, thoughts, ideologies, races class. Like you everybody sits in those seats in the dark and you s