20 Episode results for "William Kristol"

When it Comes To Trump, the Bulwark's Charlie Sykes Is 'All Out of Fucks To Give'

Reason Podcast

41:53 min | 2 years ago

When it Comes To Trump, the Bulwark's Charlie Sykes Is 'All Out of Fucks To Give'

"This is the reason podcasts, and I'm your host Nikolai Spey play. Subscribe to us at apple Google Spotify reason, or wherever you get your podcasts and rate and review us to December saw the shutting down not just of the federal government. But also of the weekly standard a conservative magazine that launched in nineteen ninety-five under the editorial leadership of William Kristol. Fred Barnes and John pot Hornets closely identified with what became universally known as neoconservative foreign policy, the weekly standard consistently editorialized in favor of US military intervention in Yugoslavia Afghanistan in Iraq on the domestic front invoked past Republicans such as teddy Roosevelt and articulated a philosophy of national greatness in which individualized would be enriched by being part of something bigger than themselves at the same time. It published pieces arguing in favor of censorship. Sometimes warning of what David fromm dubbed, the libertarian temptation or a belief in individual. Belief in individualism and lifestyle liberation would bring down the Republic at the same time, many of its contributors, and sapphires and articles were themselves. Libertarian reasons. Current editor in chief Catherine manga ward was once a staff member at the weekly standard. So it's a mixed bag of of goods for sure in recent years, the weekly standard emerged as perhaps the most consistently anti-trump publication among conservatives. Indeed, it's antagonist them towards the current president was cited as one of the reasons it lost its funding and had shutdown. Today's guest on the reason podcast is Charlie Sykes, a contributor to the weekly standard, a former contributor to the weekly standard. I should I guess I should say who is now heading up. What is widely billed as successor the bulwark? We're going to talk about what he hopes to accomplish at the bulwark and why it's important to do that. We'll also talk about how Donald Trump rose to power so quickly and sketch out the concern. -servative case against Donald Trump. We'll talk a bit about what Charlie Sykes thinks comes next both over the next couple of years and in twenty twenty and we'll also talk about the always nervous collaboration between libertarians and conservatives especially in an era when it seems like the wheels are really coming off of just about everything Charlie Sykes was born in nineteen fifty four. He was a longtime radio host based out of Milwaukee. And back in the day. He published several books in the late eighties and early nineties critical of political correctness in academia such as profs game in the hollow men his latest book, which came out in two thousand seventeen and was a big big talking point bestseller. You name it was titled how the right loss. That's might. We'll talk about that too. Charlie sykes. Welcome to the reason podcast. Good to be with you. So the bulwark slogan is conservativism conserved. What do you mean by that? Well, we'll have to figure out what conservatives means anymore because I certainly I'm not sure about all of that. I think that the conservative needs to be rethought and a variety of ways. Look, there's no question that Trump is them represents a a repudiation of much of the conservative tradition, but we're not going to be able to simply turn the clock back. So I think that over the next few years. However, Trump is a men's, and I'm guessing it's not gonna end, you know, and well as for the president or for supporters, we're going to have to engage. What I'm I I in turn only think of as capitalized the great rethinking asking, you know, what what is it? That's actually most important to us. What did we get wrong? I don't know that there's going to be a consensus opinion about that. And I'm not sure that the even in my own head. I have a consensus opinion about what conservatism is at the moment. Yeah. You in the editorial statement at the bulwark, you cite a William F Buckley's famous. Phrase from nine hundred fifty five when he would launch national review that national review or conservative should stand thwart history. Yelling stop. And then you you add we face an even more complicated challenge today, not merely resisting the pressures of the left, but also a conservative movement that is being driven by Griff tres and monta banks into a dark hole of native ISM, protectionism, isolationism and fabulous them. Let's start with fabulous. And I I you also in your editorial kind of statement of purpose. You talk about Donald Trump, and let me get this. Right. This is the president of the United States is a serial liar narcissist and a bully conman who mocks that this abled and women a man with no fixed principals who has the vocabulary of an emotionally insecure nine year old. But what do I really think it was going to ask like what what's left? So what I well. Let's let's get to. What is what is the prince? People of conservativism if if it is if it's to kind of hold things together, but you're kind of saying like there's there's nothing to preserve here. Well, I think that there are values to preserve, and what Trump represents is is a repudiation of almost whatever version of conservatism you want to embrace whether it is libertarianism anti-authoritarian ISM or whether it is a more traditional view of of of society. That's based on a prudent sound judgment of the belief in in character. Donald Trump represents a a third bomb into at all of them. So I mean, we could just no walk through the various ways in which you know. I mean, I don't wanna get ahead of ourselves here. But this morning, I got up very early to read a piece about the possibility the president's going to declare a national emergency on the border, and you know, talking about things like. The military version of eminent domain, by the way, I went to the reason website to to look up your your article on all of that. And and this is one of those moments where you look at this and go what is conservative about this? Now, the the this may be consistent with a certain right wing nationalism. That were familiar with saved from the European model. But it certainly I would hope not consistent with what conservatives have believed over the last several decades. However, I'm open to people who saying we'll know there was always a recessive, gene. All of those things were always there. And you you folks, simply ignore that. Well, you know, how do you you don't think that there's a national emergency on the border? No, I think it's fictional. Right. And and Len an endemic Gojic an end, by the way, an example of the fabulous that I'm talking about. I I was just gonna say I mean, I think in in many ways at you know, in and you see at it's not quite the same and. It doesn't mean the same partly because she doesn't matter as much as a congresswoman. But when Alexandria, akeso Cortez kind of place at Trump type card where in sixty minutes interview that just came out on Sunday. She was talking about how well, you know. Like, it's you know, the facts are less important than being morally. Right. We it isn't that hard to be factually, right and kind of morally right actual or to argue these things, but the fabulous. And that has it been introduced into American politics. I think by Trump might be one of the most dangerous and long lasting effects. But this will happen be for him. I mean, can you can you give a sense of? And again, Trump ran and won as a Republican. He wouldn't have gotten very far in the Democratic Party primary process or anything like that for any number of reasons, including the fact that Democrats unlike Republicans rarely look for saviors outside of politics, there, there really isn't a democratic version of Herman Cain or Ben Carson or Donald Trump. You know, that comes riding in from outside of politics, and it's going to just make everything great. But clearly there was a rot within the conservative movement within the Republican party. If Donald Trump is able to get on stage with a cast of sixty dancing, kind of flora Dory, flurry, Dora, girls, or whatever and just blow them off to stage, where where do you think this started that conservativism are Republican politics became so awful that somebody like Trump could really kind of Costa victory when they come actually really haunted by that question because you know, really until the very end I was simply assuming that he was like the drunk at the end of the bar or your bigoted uncle a thanksgiving. And that you know. Yeah. He was there. Maybe he was part of the the, you know, part part of the team. But, but nobody was gonna take it very seriously and the sooner or later, the the center would hold in some way, the, you know, the the rational grownups would would say, okay, we've we've had. Enough of that an end it didn't which which then raises the question. Okay. You know? I thought I understood what conservatism was I thought I understood who was part of the conservative movement, and obviously I was wrong. A lot of the conservative values were the people will be thought of as the conservative thought leaders, we're not necessarily Representative of the broad base that may be some of those, you know, quote, unquote, principles or values were really just sort of. You know pie crust thin over this molten lava of something very different. And so this this is something worth debating. I mean, they're they're folks out there. I would think I would put max boot in this category, and Jonathan shade on the left who would say that. No, Trump is really sort of the inevitable outcome of conservatism. He's completely consistent. Conservatism was always racist xenophobic. It was always a thorough -tarian, and you folks were deluding yourself. I don't buy that. I think that there were alternative traditions. I don't think this was. Inevitable. But it's it certainly shock to the system both politically, and intellectually would what do you think is the role in preparing for the center view, looking through some of the things that you've written and puzzling over this same question at what is the role of the George W Bush years Bush in office for eight years, and and I realized you know, I, and I'm not trying to square the circle, you know, that we agree on everything or disagree on everything. But he left office after starting at least a couple of wars that are still basically with us that we have not been concluded successfully financially. He pushed through tarp and a bunch of things he actually said at the end of his presidency. I love free market capitalism. And in order to save it. I'm going to suspend it while I give out all of this kind of money to bankers and things like that. He left office as the least approved with the lowest approval rating of any president in history. At least since I've been doing that. What is the role of the Bush years in kind of? Weakening conservativism or the Republican party to such a degree that Donald Trump pops up as as the Republican president eight years after. Cast the question slightly in the entrance suits, it is complicated. And it's little Bush era because a lot of things happen during this Bush era, including the rise of the tea party, the the the the rise of the outrage machines, which which went and unpredictable directions. But I think that at the end of of the Trump your will let me put it. In a in a different way, you know, as I was watching my friend Paul Ryan, and he was longtime friend of mine leave the speakership having devoted his entire career to deficit reduction entitlement reform, but watching him leave with trillion dollar a year deficits as far as the I can see in a massive increase in the national debt. You know, one of the questions I had to ask was was this a disappointment. Or what Republicans really not that serious when they talked about reducing the deficit was was it was it was it always just simply a a rhetorical trope rather than something they believe in. Then you go back to the questions you asked about the Bush administration in which, you know, by any, you know, standard of free market small government, fiscal prudence. It was it was really a travesty. And yet, you know. So how how did how did that happen will impart? I do think that we began the shift from conservatism as a principal to conservatism as as a form of tribal. Awesome. But then again, you you also had this movement arise the the critics of of President Bush, including members of of the tea party who became the outrage caucus, and and many of them made very valid criticisms. But in the end, many of them went on to embrace Trumpism. So what what was that all about? I mean, people who were campaigning who are outraged about the debt and the deficit from the stimulus package, and yet they are have no problem at all with the Trump administration. Well, and so then the in the tea party, I agree. That's it's interesting to think about both the outrage machine, which I think we might agree is kind of nondenominational hurts nonpartisan. It's technology that came online in a in a fully formed way because of social media because of the breakdown not just the broadcast news, but of cable news, and, you know, continuing declines in party affiliation. And things like that where where? Much angry or country, partly because everybody has their own Bullhorn, probably. But then the tea party specifically to go for me saying, you know, just stop the spending tax enough already. Interestingly in this brings us back to contemporary moments and talks that Trump is about to give they switched from cutting spending and taxes to immigration for some reason. What what do you think was going on there that you you move from saying the government is too big? And it's taking too much my money spending too much stop it already. Let me get on with my life. And then the next thing, you know, you're you're worried about your freaking out over the declining number of Mexicans who are crossed the southern. I'm glad you brought this up because there there've been several just head snapping reversals that we've seen we know one evangelical Christians going from thinking that character mattered to know, the fell from preserves a mulligan for paying off Brown stars that he had sex with while his wife was a recovering from childbirth. Okay. So that that was one, but the one you described is is equally as disorienting when you think about it. Now in part an on. I thought a lot about the tea party because I was an enthusiastic supporter winning began. When it was. There was a moment when I think that it was that was was genuine that. It was it was it was spontaneous. But in a very short period of time. And you you mentioned all the things that have happened to tribalize us. But but one factor that I don't think can be underplayed just the role of the griffis, you know, the professionals the people who just simply latch onto any cause. Because they think it's it's the one in the tea party. I think really was corrupted at a certain point which in in part explain. Lanes. How people who claim to be had the mantle of the tea party or the mantle of the freedom caucus consulting morph into something very different than what they originally were. But what you're describing right now Israeli extraordinary because look I I I've always thought of immigration and by the way on the issue of immigration. I know I thought the conservatives wanted to tighten the rules about illegal immigration, but understood the incredible values of legal immigration will that of course, changed as as as well. I think it's I think in part, it's people like you. And I think the politics are about ideas and about policies and about principles would in fact, we're living in air, which politics, increasingly about attitude and identity social identity, perhaps even racial identity, and the, you know, so when when the tribe goes in one direction it may claim that you'll were all about fiscal prudence. But now, it's about no those Mexicans are swarming the border like something out of you. The apocalypse. And there is there is no consistent line. There is there. I mean, you spend a lot of time in Wisconsin. Which of course, came into, you know, as a major state in the two thousand sixteen election, Hillary Clinton famously, you know, she visited Chipotle more often during her campaign than she visited wince Wisconsin, which she did not have really true. Yeah. And, but you know, is Wisconsin's economy struggling to the extent that it is because of immigration, and is it. You know, how what is the pulse in a place like that, which, you know, everybody points to as a place where the Democrats lost the election because working class people were fed up. Is that an accurate read or is it, and then what what what is the prescription that either Trump or a truly conservative Republican party would have to help a state like Wisconsin, make it self great again. Well, let me go to the to the first question. And maybe this was one of the reasons why Trump and Trump isn't took me by surprise what it was because in Wisconsin, illegal immigration the immigration. She was just simply not a major issue. It was not a problem. It did not negatively impact the economy, in fact to the contrary as of talkshow we had a fifty thousand watt station. So I could reach people throughout the state, including rural Wisconsin, and I very vividly remember opening up the phone lines. I wanna hear just from farmers. I want to hear from people in the dairy industry. How do you? You feel about the immigration question. And overwhelmingly the point they made was we could not milk the cows. We keep the lights on if it was not for immigration. So immigration was not only a net negative was not only not negative. It was essential for for much of Wisconsin economy. So so that did not obviously drive the vote. Obviously there were some other things. Now, it is true that blue collar workers, obviously in rural Wisconsin, they were disillusion they did feel abandoned by the Democratic Party Hillary Clinton. A clearly, you know, punched all of the wrong buttons for right? And and famously a number of the counties that ended up voting for Trump and making a difference had actually voted for Obama just in the previous election. So there's I mean is Carter is part of the the story of two thousand sixteen that we might be missing is that you know, Trump, obviously one. He won fair and square through the electoral, college and everything. But when you look at the number of votes, he got it was really more about Hillary losing. And perhaps Trump is not a watershed moment. He doesn't represent the future. It's really kind of just this bizarre outcome. That's only going to happen once. Well, I think that there it's similar in the middle there. There's no question about it that you cannot you cannot overestimate the the role of Hillary being toxic. You know, how many of those votes were cast member in Wisconsin Republicans voted against Donald Trump, rather overwhelmingly in the primary we we were I thought we were going to be a firewall rationale rationality. Instead, we turned out to be a kind of a speed bump, but they weren't buying Donald Trump. But in the end of Republicans of all stripes, basically found Hillary Clinton to be that much more distasteful and Democrats were clearly underwhelmed in Milwaukee county. I believe something like forty thousand you know, she got forty thousand fewer votes than Barack Obama had got. Four years earlier, amazingly African Americans did not turn out for seventy year old white woman wrote didn't bother to come. But there's no question about it that that there's there's the dissatisfaction of people who feel left behind by the economy who did not feel that that the Democrats were were talking to them or that that more traditional Republican values work. Although, you know, again, we have Republicans hope the p the same people that voted for Donald Trump voted for Senator Ron Johnson who is you know, ver- very much a free market guy. But the the the democratic party's cultural alienating from that population. I think is reflected in in the rural votes in places like Wisconsin. But the gun the gun issue, by the way, a play is a major factor in. I am not a big fan of the NRA. But if Democrats think they're going to reverse this by doubling down on guns. I would suggest that they visit rural Wisconsin or rural Michigan rural Ohio. And and to see, you know, how toxic that issue will be for them. It's fascinating. I mean, once you get off the coast, really, and even the the urban parts of the coast guns just are not really an issue in in any way, shape or form or even a partisan 'cause you you mentioned trolls and Griff tours in comments before and in in your one of your top stories, actually talks about the currently at the ball work talks about the trolls in grafters, Charlie Kirk of turning point USA is one of the main targets of that story. He's a kind of Griffin and chief what what is what is it about him and people like him that you think are is particularly deleterious to serious politics in America. Well, this is going to is better. A core mission statement hit the bulwark. I think there'd been a feeling among conservatives. We don't punch down. Now. Let's let's nor those folks. Well, mike. Take is we spent twenty years of knowing those folks, and look what it got us. So they need to be called out. So we actually have a column that's regular account by Jim swift, which can be called trolls Griffin's. And even as you mentioned Kelly. Charlie Charlie Kirk is one of those guys. And I've I've met him. Bright ambitious charismatic who had the potential to be a leader on college campuses about conservative values. And I think it originally was and yet he's one of the folks who figured you know, what I could become more famous. I can get more clicks, I can have access to famous quote, unquote, beautiful people, if I basically turn myself into a trumpet, you know, a courtier and has done. So so rather than being an independent thinker? You watch what he does. And he's transformed himself into this really sort of dumbed down. On crude propagandist for the current regime because this was a career choice. And unfortunately, I think this is this this this problem of of conservative careerism, which is not new is particularly egregious because you think of the folks like Charlie Kirk who has this organism turning point USA when he's convinced lots of elderly rich conservatives to give him money because this is how you fight political correctness on campus. And instead, it's become this massive pro-trump, est. Griff which is in again reminds me very much what happened to the late stage a tea party. You know, you mentioned wealthy old conservative donors. It's it's been widely reported that clarity media which owned the weekly standard innocent, turn controlled by Philip and shuts billionaire a pulled the plug on the standard because it was. Just to anti-trump is is that true. Is that an accurate statement? I think it's it's accurate and is not the whole story. There have been some really there's been some outstanding reporting on all of this. And of course, you know, everything I I don't want to exaggerate my mind of this everything I hear I hear of course, secondhand. I I think that was certainly a major factor. But also, you had some internal issues involving you know, some of the the CEO's who decided that the the who who decided that they they wanted to take you know, they wanted to kill off the standard in order to basically sell it off for parts and into beef up another publication, which is not uniformly pro-trump. But is certainly does not have the style or the tone or the depth of the weekly standard. But yes, this was this was this was a an I think it's been accurately described by people like John powder. It says a as as a murder. This did not have to happen. Steven Hayes was in the. Process of of getting investors perhaps and had willing head willing buyers. There's no reason why they couldn't have done it. So there's a certain maliciousness to it. But this is the problem when you have a movement that is so heavily dependent an increasingly dependent on on an oligarchy. We talk about the Russian oligarchs the reality is that American politics is is often driven by by the by the whims. And the prejudices of of oligarchs clipped, tremendous influence, not just over political candidates. But over a lot of the organizations that once claim to be thought leaders on the right how will the bulwark rat around that problem, you're you're you're funded by nonprofit right hand. You know, how how will that protect you from you know, kind of the same thing happening where you have a big donor. Who's like, you know, what like you've pissed me off one too many times. So I'm pulling the plug. Listen anything can happen. I I've been there. The reality is that we, you know, we we've launched this with the understanding that, you know, here we have a moment of political crisis. And let's see whether or not we can find a market. We can find people who no share our values. It one of the bottom lines that I have is that whoever supports us. We have to have absolute editorial freedom and control in the moment. We cease to have that. I'm I'm gone. I've I've I've been I've been fired from other jobs, these sorts of things, and I'm I'm old enough as you will minded us a little bit. You know, basically, you don't want one of the key assets that that I think a lot of us bring to this right now. And you said I could do this Nick I want to mention that. If people are hearing this when I'm about to say is that you specifically said, I could say this. Okay. One of the assets that I think I bring to this and other folks that I'm affiliated with bring to this is that I am all at FOX to give. I mean seriously. I there's there's there's moment where we're going to say we have to say we have to do it. We have to do. And if people don't like it. Well, you know, we've had horses shot out from under us before. Let's talk a little bit specifically about the agenda coming up for the bulwark I and it's an enjoyable site. I, you know, I I've gone to virtually every day that it's been live. And I always find something of interest on the foreign policy front. What's what's the bulwark going to be up to? I honestly don't I I don't think we have an agenda on the foreign policy front. I think that we're. Gonna provide a forum for people across across the conservative spectrum to be able to talk about what what Trump is doing. Now. You just what? Yeah. You have the weekly standard is. And that was I look I don't wanna be dodgy about this sort of before my time on all of this. But we do not have we do not have a an agenda. Well, you know, there's a there's a piece up I enter Magar currently at the so called what does can learn from trumps walk back on Syria. And it's kind of you know, there was mama. Where Trump, you know announced. Apparently, he may have been, you know, sleep talking or something, but he announced withdrawal from Syria and a having forces in Afghanistan, that's become more complicated. It's not exactly clear what's going on now. And that's what that story is about. But do you think from a kind of conservative interventionist point of view? There's a lot that needs to be rethought. Like a lot of brain work that needs to be done clearly our foreign policy like let's put it this way. Bush's. Or a foreign policy like s she our economic policy hasn't worked out. So well, no it has not. And and it seems to me that there are a number of conservatives who are rethinking the economic policy and kind of social welfare policy. Do we need that kind of rethink or do you need that kind of rethink Arabs of foreign policy? Absolutely. There's no there is just no question about it that we need that kind of rethinking. I don't know. I really don't know many people who who think, you know. Yeah. Let's let's go back to doing all of that to who have an appetite for nation building. It's edge to you though that people are like goddamn at Trump said, you know, Afghanistan is going nowhere. We should get the hell out. So screw him. We're going to stay there. I mean, that's kind of what a lot of conservatives. I mean, even Fox News people were like what the hell are you doing? We're supposed to be the country that stays all the other countries. I'm yet, that's a legitimate point. But what what into Eggers piece about with dubs? Learn from trumps walk back on Syria. Really is. Focusing on though, is is is the the danger of relying on an Iraq nurse assist. A man of no fixed principles on all of this. So the concern is is is not that that, you know, he will make them in the so the the issue is not are we inner we out, but we're going to do this in a reckless dishonest irresponsible way. And I think we're seeing this played out again to right now. For example, you know, no, put your faith in Princess. I think would be the the the bottom line whether you are on whether you are Lindsey Graham made by the way think about this Lindsey Graham and rand Paul or book looking at Donald Trump and and sleeping Isao. He's our guy if we just suck up to him enough will get you know, we'll get our way. Well, you know, what Lindsey Graham and in Rampal earned very, very different sides. And both of them are going to end up in deeply deeply disappointed. So we have the scene of John Bolton, basically, totally revising with the president said about Syria. So are my. I focus right now is owned my God. Where can this chaos lead us? What what is a we get in playing. These these bizarre games of political chicken with whether it's with, you know, Kim Jong in on or whether it's with, you know, Erta one or whatever, you know, what the hell is happening here. But I agree with you. We definitely need a rethinking of of the interventionist policies. How about on the, you know, and again, this is less about simply domestic politics or policy? But you know, what what is your what is your hope for the bulwark in terms of kind of cultural and and domestic coverage. Well, you know, what this will be people have thought of this as being a successor to the weekly standard. I want to make it clear. You know, I do not think of this as the weekly standard two point. Oh, because we cannot possibly recreate you know, publication, you know, that it had a quarter of a century of tradition. And in you know, you know, I am a much bigger staff. We're not gonna be doing a lot of cultural coverage. We are going to be focusing on the crisis of the moment will be talking about, you know, I'm focused on the next two years. You know, is there going to be a principled fact base rational critique of Trumpism how are we going to will report on we'll talk about what will be happening in in Republican politics over the next Republican libertarian politics. Third party politics is who knows where this is going whether or not there will be a major third party. And that certainly a possibility over the next eighteen months, so and and going back to our previous conversation. I think that at some point. We will at some point has in like next week. You're gonna you're gonna start to see some very serious discussions of what what is conservative where do we go? How do we pick up the pieces? What does this great rethink look like? And I think there are a lot of voices. They're going to be in here. And look right now, you know, there's you know reasons over here and the Niskanen center is we over here. And you have you have libertarian could of David from, you know, making making critiques you have Iraq. Eric Erickson, you have of Tucker Carlson, you have, you know, the the, you know, the the American greatness crowd, you have the small government crowd. And and I I think there's going to be a lot of ferment. And I do not know how it's going to end up that ferment is not necessarily a bad thing. Right. Yeah. And although here, I guess is is we'll be wrapping up. But you know, does this, you know, at the same time ripped the Repub. Taken party seems to have reached its apogee Cup cycle or two ago in terms of owning state houses owning all the all the parts of the federal government, etc. Are you worried? How worried are you by the incoming congress? How worried are you by, you know, the kind of interest in the democratic socialists of America and things like that? Or are you at this point? You're like, you know, you got to put the fire out in your own kitchen before you can really get on deck and see what iceberg is about to completely sink to ship. Well, that's why our job is more complicated than Buckley's jobs and worrying about both of those things. I mean, no the ship is headed toward the iceberg. You know, and and the and the cabins on fire. So we just you with both of those things. So yes, I am very concerned about with with the Democrats are going to do in part of the reason that that I have been never Trump is. Because I'm I'm convinced that the real danger is that it will not only discredit the Republican party and conservatism, but that it will force a massive backlash to the left that that will lead to the decimation of principled conservatives. And so the that's that is the, you know, there, that's what makes this so incredibly perilous right now that that to the extent Republicans you'll lash themselves to the mass of Trumpism to to mix the metaphors again, they make it more possible that we're going to have no president Bernie Sanders in. Massive and massive nationalized healthcare. So they're not too different things. Like, look, you know, this this narrow nativist xenophobic approach to immigration is playing to the base, but it could destroy your ability to stand up against a Democratic Party that is lurching hard to the left. And so I do think that one of the things to think about is is the third way. Is this the moment that we fantasized about in the past and nothing's ever come of it where you possibly have, you know, third fourth party voices that Italy stand up and say, okay, while the two tribes ripping each other apart here some rational discourse. And I'm I'm agnostic on that at the moment. So you know, you mentioned immigration, and you mentioned to kind of rational kind of thought as opposed to tribalism, which I think speaks to libertarians can, you know, tell me or tell the reason podcast listeners white libertarian should read the bulwark. Well, because we're place for these ideas and libertarianism by the libertarian regime can be very very much, welcome. In fact, I if I had to place myself on the political spectrum of of conservatism, I would say that I have lead far more libertarian than say some of my other colleagues from from from from the weekly standard. But I think on on the issue of immigration, and I think that we're going to have some clarifying moments. I think it's going to be very clarifying. If and now, we're really in the moment, if in fact, the president, declares a national emergency in the military version of eminent domain. This is going to be an extremely clarifying moment for conservatives. This will I mean, this will be and this will be a libertarian moment for libertarians to stand up and aunts and say, look, this is exactly what are in tire movement has warned against this kind of you know, this kind of overreach of power. And I think that they're going to be. These teachable moments where you know, to the extent to which conservatism has drifted away from small government in in emphasis on individual liberty that that as Trump and Trumpism veers more towards this sort of, you know, crude, you know, a heavy handed authoritarianism that there will be a, you know, room for, you know, significant alternative oysters. And by the way, we intend to provide them final question Charlie Sykes of the bulwark, you you have been at this for a number of years for decades. And when you look back at your early works. I mentioned in the intro your books like profs game in the hollow men. Your early work avenue were originally, I guess print journalists and then became a radio talker. Obviously written a lot of books, including you know, the I want to get the title, right? How the right loss that's mind. Most recently do. You see a arc like clear trajectory in in the way that your thought has developed over time, or is it kind of like, wow, I I started off wrong. And now, I'm in a better place. No, I I look back at the my regional books were about political correctness on university campuses critiques of government education dumbing down our kids. The culture the nation victim was one of my earlier bone. What what I look back on the trajectory and think that I thought we were going in one direction and the Trump experience was a really rude awakening. It was it was kind of a shot. It was like hitting hitting that particular iceberg in. That's what you know, how the right lost its mind. And that I feel like I should write a an updated chapter every year to bat trying to figure out because I don't think that we've reversed course on that quite quite yet. But I think I probably moved from a sense of certitude to a much greater sense of uncertitude if that's a word, which which. In Cerise today. Certitude? Yeah. That sounds so much better than. Or I have become squishy, right? For example, on the on the issue of immigration. You know, I probably would have, you know, gone along the road imitation. You know? Yes, we need, you know, when you do, you know, border security gotta yada, yada. And in, you know, watching what's happening now, I think I've become much more libertarian on this. I mean, much more open to this like really win. Did we decide that we are no longer a nation of immigrants winded? We decided to build a political culture around blaming, you know, you know, blaming the ele- people in China and the Brown people from Mexico for all the problems. You know, how did conservatives become the party of we are always victims? So those those are questions that I continue to wrestle well and just to wrap up, you know, in in the the bulwarks foundational statement you quote, Ronald Reagan saying something to the effect that it's really the character of the American people that matters even more than the institutions and. The traditions. You know, is is that is that where you're coming from. And then how do we how do we start? If that's the case. And it's not institutions, and it's not kind of frameworks at check Pat check and balance power. How do we get back to? How do how do we how do we improve ourselves? So that we might improve the world. Well, that's easy. No, it's not. I mean. I would hope. No, I that that that quote from from from Reagan, and from others in and also because, you know, especially since the conservatives have decided the character, no longer matters that it's it's so because it is it is going to have to come from Americans. And there that'd be a revival of the concept of citizenship. And I've talked about this. And and I need to work on this a little bit more. Because if we are waiting for the institutions to save us or some political figure to ride in on a white horse. We're going to be disappointed. You know, the the the problem is not simply we have lots of fake news and propaganda that we have an American public that that has become gullible and indifferent to the truth, and perhaps indifferent indifferent to the traditions of the company country, including their their own liberties. And so somehow you have to restore that sense. And that's a bottom up as opposed to top down, which means that it is extremely difficult. Yeah. Trump's uh. Military parades aren't going to do it for us or the. No, it's not. But maybe give them give him give him the frequent parade. I mean. Busy. No, give him a uniform can put metals on or something, you know, gave him. Hey, come up with something. Harmless for him to do, you know, you know, spend spend the next few months installing gold toilets in the White House or something or planning his military Paradin designing uniforms for the White House, whatever while we are. We're going to leave it there. We have been talking with Charlie Sykes. He's the author most recently of how the right loss, that's mind. And he is the editor in chief of the bulwark a aged semi of pre existing but newly launched website that seeks to be an outlet for new conservative thought in an age of Trumpism, Charlie. I wanna thank you so much for talking with us. Thank you. It's been great. This has been the reason podcasts, and I've been your host nNcholas be please subscribed to us at apple at Google at Spotify at reason wherever you get your podcasts and rate and review us while you're there. Thanks for listening.

Donald Trump Trump president Republican party Charlie Sykes US Trumpism Democratic Party Wisconsin Griff tres Hillary Clinton Charlie Charlie Kirk editor in chief William F Buckley apple President Bush Iraq William Kristol Syria
How Do Trebuchets Work?

BrainStuff

10:17 min | 10 months ago

How Do Trebuchets Work?

"Today's episode is brought to you by Mazda back in the before times before covid nineteen Mazda invited a few of us. I heart podcasters out to drive there do see X. Thirty from Palm Springs to San Diego and trip encapsulates what I miss about traveling and being on an unfamiliar road feeling the grip of the curves enjoying the world is you only can from a car with the windows down in the music up their whole lineup of. Is made to be agile in sippy on city streets or winding mountain roads but roomy enough to bring long whatever you need for either or both their sleek outside and in designed to reduce distraction and give you the control and confidence to really enjoy the drive for more information on Mazda. C UV lineup including the first ever see X. Thirty. GO TO MAZDA USA DOT COM SLASH IHEART and don't forget to explore their strongest options Welcome to brainstorm a production of iheartradio. Hey brain stuff lauren. Vogel bomb here. In the year thirteen O Four C e King Edward I of England laid siege to Stirling Castle home of the last holdouts of a Scottish rebellion. Behind the Castles Thick Walls Sir William Fund and his Scottish loyalists endured months of aerial bombardment from perhaps the greatest collection of siege engines the world ever seen. Edward had ordered all Scottish churches stripped of their lead, which was used build powerful catapults called travis shades the largest of which could hurl boulders weighing over three hundred pounds that's over one hundred and forty kilos. The Greatest Edwards Shays was Christened Lewd Gar or the war wolf. The war will required five master carpenters and fifty workman to build and was so terrifying and scale the all phone had no choice but to surrender. But. Not Fast said Edward he wanted to fire the war wolf I and even built a special viewing platform. So ladies of his court have a good view of the destruction it wrought. We spoke with William Kristol. A science journalist and author of the art of the catapult. He explained Edward Alden bankrupted himself building all these tragedies and by God he was going to use them. In theatrical display of domination, Edward pulled the trigger on the war will sending its massive projectile Arkan view the sky and crashing the castles foot thick walls that's about three and a half meters of stone. Rebellion was officially over an Edward had earned himself a new nickname, the hammer of the Scots. Before gunpowder was popularized in the mid fourteenth century. There were no cannons to launch heavy lead balls through enemies and their walls. But that didn't stop creative warfare irs from devising ways to toss stuff at each other. One of the most effective was the catapult a device that uses a spring loaded arm or a heavy counterweight to hurl large objects over great distances. There are three general types of catapults. The I called a Ballista or tension catapult looks like an oversized crossbow and works on the same principles generating force from the tension of the bow arms. The BALLISTA was invented by the Greeks around three, hundred, ninety, nine BC. Second known as the auditor or torsion catapult gets its power from a rope like bundle of animal sinew and hair of the rope is twisted tightly to create torsion, which when released generates enough force to launch a small projectile from a catapult arm. The Romans named the on Jerry after a wild donkey that delivered an especially strong kick. The third type of catapult is the trashy perhaps the simplest yet most powerful catapult of all the arm of is actually a long lever. It swung into motion by pulling downward with ropes or dropping a heavy counterweight. While is a French word. The technology is believed to have originated in China in the first couple of centuries, C E. The very earliest Trichet's unlike those I used in China and later in Europe in the early Middle Ages where people powered meaning the lever arm of the catapult was swung by a group of soldiers pulling on a rope. But the real innovation in to technology came in the twelfth century with the advent of the counterweight Trichet. We also spoke with Michael Fulton History, professor at Langres College in British, Columbia, and author of siege warfare during the Crusades. He explained that an elevated basket is weighted with hundreds or even thousands of pounds of rocks. That's the counterweight. When the basket has dropped, it pulls down a rope connected to the short end of a long lever arm that swings on an axle. He said as the short end of the lever is pulled down the long and rises at a proportionately greater rate. When you add sling at the end of the arm, you force the projectile to travel even farther during the same amount of time, which adds tear rate of acceleration. It's all really basic physics at a fundamental level. KRISTEL has built plenty of Tripod shays including a diy design using would and pvc that he named little lead Gar after Edwards Tae. He said the longer that lever and the heavier, the weight, the farther the projectile goes. He noted that the counterweight has to weigh approximately a hundred times. The object you're trying to throw a gerstl once made a tribe share with a five hundred pound or two hundred twenty, seven, kilo counterweight. It was still only powerful enough to launch a small cantaloupe. During the Middle Ages, the construction of fortified cities led to a new type of military campaign. The siege laying siege to a walled city required new war machines like battering rams for splintering vic doors and siege towers for reaching high walls but one of the earliest and most powerful innovations was the tragedy say. One of the first recorded uses of a in battle during the siege fed Salonika in the late sixth century ce the Salonika was Byzantine stronghold under attack by the Avars, a collection of central. Asian. Tribes who used a people powered There was likely inspired by ancient Chinese weaponry. But those primitive traction trevor as could only launch small projectiles and functioned as anti personnel. Weapons Not Castle Killers Fulton explained traction as were like an archer on steroids. You're definitely not smashing down solid walls in the early. Middle Ages. That would happen in the thirteenth century when counterweight treasuries were being built at larger and larger scales are cross Europe. Those truly massive travis as would be constructed off site and assembled on the battlefield itself. While a counterweight treasury could pass a boulder over castle wall. There were definitely trade-offs for one. It took a really long time to reload the counterweight. Fulton says that the smaller traction tribal shays could fire up to four shots a minute while the biggest trobisch as easy to get off one shot every half hour. Catapults tribe assays were not limited to firing conventional projectiles like stones and lead balls. According to One lurid fourteenth century account the Mongols used catapults to launch plague ridden corpses and early type of bio weapon into a medieval city in Modern Day Ukraine. Other stories tell of dead horses being slung by Turkish Castle walls to sin the enemy with the stench. But Fulton who has witnessed the forces unleashed during the throwing sequence of a large traffic. Is Skeptical about the accuracy of such accounts. He said, if you try to put something organic into one of those slings, chances are it's going to be ripped apart before you can throw it effectively. Fulton has more confidence in the tales of human heads being lobbed back and forth by tribal as at the siege of nausea in ten ninety seven. During the first crusade he said that was more psychological than biological. And when it comes to incendiary weapons like, Greek. Fire, which was a sort of early napalm that involved Pine Tar Sulfur and naturally occurring petroleum. But the recipe for which is lost a Fulton says that he doubts that Edward or anyone else was launching Greek firebombs from as with any regularity, it was more likely that castle defender would try to fire incendiaries the shape to burn the weapon to the ground. Though even if Edwards Legendary only launched rocks there simply was no siege weapon that was terrifying to the enemy and entertaining to the troops. Fulton said at a fundamental level you're not going to build these engines unless they have value, but there is value in that intimidation factor. In general kings like to have big things, they can show off. Today's episode was written by Dave. Rou and produced by Tyler Clang for more on this and lots of other topics visit how stuff works. Dot Com brainstorm is production of iheartradio or more podcasts from iheartradio visit, the iheartradio APP apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Today's episode is brought to you by Mazda back in the before times before covid. Nineteen Mazda invited a few of US IHEART podcasters out to drive Dr do see X. Thirty from Palm Springs to San Diego and that trip encapsulates what I miss about traveling and being on an unfamiliar road feeling the grip of the curves enjoying the world is you only can from a car with the windows down in the music up their whole lineup of cu. Vs is made to be agile and sippy on city streets or winding mountain roads but roomy enough to bring long whatever you need for either or both their sleek outside and in designed to reduce distraction and give you the control and confidence to really enjoy the drive for more information on Mazdas see UV lineup including the first ever see X. thirty go to Mazda. You'll say dot com slash IHEART and don't forget to explore their strongest finance options.

Michael Fulton History Mazda Edward Shays San Diego Palm Springs Edward I Europe Castles Thick Walls travis Stirling Castle Edward Alden William Kristol Vogel lauren England William Fund castle wall Tyler Clang
Neo-Con Bill Kristol on How Trump Made Him Do Some Re-Thinking

The Al Franken Podcast

1:03:00 hr | Last month

Neo-Con Bill Kristol on How Trump Made Him Do Some Re-Thinking

"Hey everybody We've got an interesting one today. For a change. William kristol is my guest. William crystal the neo con al. Yes and i'll tell you why in some ways to me. Bill kristol has been one of the most interesting prominent. Never trumpers most of the the others who you see or hear or read were political operatives. You know The lincoln project guys Michael steele bill. Kristol comes from much more academic intellectual place and. i thought i'd try to get some sense of not. Just how he he came to an anti-trump stance Which is not frankly that hard to figure out how the establishment republican parties full embrace of trump and trumpism has made him a rethink some of his own past beliefs. We record the conversation. The day before the president's address before joint session of congress on wednesday which i thought was extraordinarily Especially in its ambition. Basically it's like biden. God his team together right after the inaugural parade. You just walked into the white house. Got everybody in the oval office and president's behind his desk present biden. Says you know what everybody. Why don't we just do everything we've always known we should do. But haven't and then do them and everyone says what a great idea is president. The president says ron doron claim of course glances of course mr president without much cooperation from the trump people. We've been preparing for the unprecedented logistical challenge. Vaccinating three hundred and twenty million americans ron. I'm up to date on that. I want you guys on that day. And night mr president. We've been working the cove relief package in get this. Were including a three thousand dollar child. Tax credit to reduce childhood poverty by half excellent but dacia by the way During the speech president biden noted that that the three thousand dollar child tax credit would would cut childhood poverty in half. there is a shot of the chamber. Not every republican was on camera but not one of them applauded that now. It's kind of a tradition. It's kind of something that you're both to do is applaud something. That's an unalloyed good reducing childhood poverty by half you kind of have to applaud that anna dunno reduce childhood poverty by half. Don't like it. i'm a republican. So the meeting. And the in the oval office continues mr president. I've been working on the infrastructure package and we think it would be a good idea to bring our country's infrastructure up to the level of other countries other advanced countries or surpass them and create millions of jobs for the very people have been hurting blue collar folks who may not have a college degree you think that would be a good idea absolutely lose one and that's exactly what we're going to do great sir that'd be about two trillion dollars fine. We can't afford not to do it. Thank you sir. And we're gonna make. Our energy grid is low carbon as possible to address the greatest existential threat to mankind. Sir great. is anyone writing this down. know mr president Get a legal pad anybody anybody. Anybody got a legal pad or pen. Mister president how about early childhood education of course to mika. It child gets early childhood. Education is much much more likely to graduate high school and go to college and get a good job and not go to prison or get pregnant in adolescence. that that's just a huge priority. I got the legal pad mr president. Good work a meal and as long as we're on education. Let's make sure every kid goes to good school that the resources of your school doesn't just depend on property taxes. What a great idea mr president. Yeah yeah so every kid can go to. A school has a good physical plant and can pay for after school and great teachers. Great mr president. I wrote that down to keep writing them down a meal. Mr president i have an idea. Why don't we make the most profitable corporations in the country pay taxes. Great idea korean. It's karen sir. Also it's not my idea. Mr president i heard other people suggests that you know for years mr president as long as we're doing that sir since one of the problems is the huge gaps in wealth and income in this country. What if we made those the top who can afford it pay more taxes. I like it terra. You may like bring the marginal tax rate for people making over four hundred thousand dollars back up to what they were. At the beginning of the george w bush administration. Yes sir mr president. We could hire back a lot of the irs agents that trump fired and have them off very rich people instead of poor people like the irs does now. Hey down everybody. I'm trying to get this down. Mr president we could also hire back to scientists at the epa in fact. Why don't we just invest more in science basic research. I don't like it schivonne. i love it like darpa. Sir which gave us the internet. Good point latifah. Speaking of which shouldn't every american have access to the internet broadband for everyone. That's great mr president. Hey i have another idea i've won. I've won. Hey i want how about making life a little easier for people you know by giving some family leave in case someone gets sick or something you mean like every other developed country has to nui. Let's do it. You know what people care about. Mr president healthcare. Oh yeah when barack. And i got the aca done. It was a big fucking deal. Well mr president with all due respect. You should have said that to president obama at that time. Actually i did to monica. That was a joke. Sir mervyn own. Okay everybody. I think this was a really good for session. These are all great ideas. No reason we shouldn't do all of them. So that was the first meeting of the team right after the inaugural and basically this president has just said. Why don't we just do the things we've been saying. We should do burger years and years. And i applaud him. So william kristol will be with us right after this word from one of our commendable sponsors. You've got a great one today for a change. you know. there's nothing like a good night's sleep waking up and ready to take on the day but sometimes many of us don't get the quality of sleep. We need to be our best. Fortunately head space. Has you covered by a warm down blanket on a chilly. Fall night head. Space is your daily dose of mindfulness in the form of guided meditations in an easy to use app and while they have meditations voted helping you reduce stress. Increase your overall sense of well being head. Space also has an entire library of sleep stories. Sleep music and other sleep. Sounds that can help you get the quality sleep you so desperately need for busy. lifestyles head. Space has wind downs. Meditations and breathing exercise their short as three minutes so they easily fit in any schedule. Even mind us head space every day. Usually just for mindfulness on the cool may out when i get up in the morning and it sets me off. You know the right right frame of mind for the day. And i love it now sometimes though i feel a little bit i dunno anxious by maybe the news or something and i liked it. Maybe do another session. You know right before. I go to bed. That puts me in the right frame of mind to get a good night's rest guide. I need so. I can get up and get good session of mindfulness in the morning. Try head space for free and start sleeping soundly tonight. That's my wife. When i'm trying to get to sleep and right now our listeners get a one month trial the head space entire library. Meditations for free just go to head space dot com slash franken. This is the best deal offered right now. Head to head space dot com slash. Franken today my guest. Today is william kristol. I can call him bill kristol because we were classmates at the university of minnesota duluth where he played hockey and drank a lot of berry love beer but he was able to enroll in the political science. Phd program at harvard By pretending to be the son. Serving crystal the father of neo conservatism. And gertrude himmelfarb the noted intellectual historian. How am i doing so far though mclachlan excellent. it's at fifty percent true. Not just kind of what i expect. Frankly so that's that's that's what we pride I think you know most of my listeners. Know you and your career as a as journalist a member of the three last republican administrations publisher of the weekly standard and the frequent Talking head your your head. Talks a lot and as one of the Early republican anti-trumpers to speak out against a former president. Now talk a couple of weeks ago right about what subjects we should cover and we it on biden's first one hundred days and i wondered that right out of the box because We're recording this on. Tuesday april twenty-seventh which scientists telesis the ninety eighth day of the biden presidency. Basso that first but after that. This is what i wanna do. I wanna ask you about your evolution over the last five or so years. And i'm not more because so many of the prominent talking head. Anti-trumpers are basically political types. The lincoln project guys were all campaign guys. Michael skills chair of the republican party. Charlie sykes at a conservative political. Talk show and i just want to hear about your journey so the only correction bother making his. I wasn't either. The w bush or the trump administration. So it's actually The white house. I was in the reagan and first bush. And that's it's hard to believe. It's wait a minute. Did i say the last three that. Yeah yeah. I don't even count trump as well. That's two of the last three pre trump and speaking of journeys guys. What do you remember this. I don't know stick my mind. We met we were on a train together. Dc new york. I think typical concentrates people like us. Take you know sal. The probably not first class. I think just the coach class you know. Don't have what it was that we chatted about trump and you i was already sort of anti trump it. We were agreeing on that. But you were shrewd about that. It was more dangerous and could be more lasting and he could dominate things at least other republican side. More than people expected. I came the campaign or maybe that was twenty. Seventeen to vaguely. Remember this or your to you. All these meetings with fans on trains to just the memory hole since you had so many of them i actually. Well thank you for Because i found really smart. They're so thanks for recalling that. I let's talk about the i ninety eight days because this is the ninety eighth day. Twenty seven th when we're recording this and then it'll drop on the second day but Go ahead what do you think of Biden's performance not good. I mean impressive and You're too close to as i am here in washington watching knowing some of the people watching every little zig zag and i disagree with ad. I would've emphasize this wishing had this line and things but if you step back i needed you said a hundred days ago that you know would the would have made the progress you've made on vaccines. The economy would be coming back that the country would have calmed down unclear on some of the political form. Stuff how much progress he'll be able to make and whether so i think he's done very well. I'm the biggest disappointments since november third has been public barney which is not at all liberated itself from trump and trump is in some ways basically is dug deeper or double down on an say after january sixth instead of the opposite but the degree to which biden is governing in my view is a kind of responsible democrat obviously to the left of me on a bunch of issues but a serious and sober and with the competent administration. I think that's i think it's been important. I do worry about mcconnell. I worry about republicans on the You know recovery act american recovery. Act not one in either house not one. Republican vote on something like sixty. Five percent of americans favored reminded me of you. Know two thousand nine and two thousand ten and eleven twelve went. They just did not want to help. Obama at all and you know the number of filibusters and no cooperation and be actually member very early on. They did this Sequester thing we we got to a point where they almost defaulted on the debt and held a gun to basically to obama's head and everybody's head and made us cut spending. They're still the same people with mcconnell is going to just i i'm afraid he's gonna keep doing is now. Maybe on infrastructure will come up with something. What do you think. I don't know but it would be very good for the country for there to be something bipartisan. The passes whether it's infrastructure immigration conceivably voting rights at. Look it's not going to be immigration. Isn't take a little bit on the border in return for dhaka and some increase in the legal immigration quotas. Maybe not but. I don't think it has to be a majority republicans by any means. I just think it'd be healthy for the country and frankly would help those of us trying to liberate the republican party a little bit lease from trump to have ten or fifteen or twenty republican votes with some of these bills. Having said that reason there aren't going to be those or they're they're they're all intimidated terrified by by by the trump phenomenon. But look the fact. Is that the ten house. Republicans and seven republican senators much to swallow number in my opinion but who voted for impeachment conviction sort of made a difference that had a dynamic of its own. Liz cheney is kinda stayed the course on that and again she made many war combinations than i would have over the preceding for years but at least it reminds people that there is a possibility of being pretty staunch ideological opponent without being hostile to american democracy. In seeking to overturn election. Results said it would be so. I'm hopeful i'm a little by contrarian streak thanks everyone else's saying they can't possibly be eddie. Bipartisan deal anything so maybe they can be on at least a few things but Why i think that. On the george floyd yet police officers good one. Yeah i i think that's going to my what i'm hearing is. That will be some compromise on that and that will happen so that would be if you could get police reform through and then people look. I'm the one thing i compromise. People are allowed to come back two years later or year later and try to get. I mean if people are unhappy on the left with some stuff that they have to give up to get tim scott and all that i think it would be worth it. And it's i feel this is a metric republicans of the bulk of the blame on this. But i do think actually. It's in the country's interest for the administration to bend over backwards or perceived at least honestly to be bending over backwards to try to find. What a two pieces of legislation. At least where they can get some bipartisan support. I think would help him politically. But i also think it would just help defuse things. The degree to which republicans not even trump republicans just stab republicans have bought the line that this biden administration is a bunch of woke lunatics. Who you know desperately are seeking to shutdown capitalism. Take their guns. Take their free speech. Impose whatever the craziest thing that's happening at one. Private school on the upper east side. New york opposed that on the entire country. And i don't like some of these left wing things that are happening in woke elite schools on the east and so forth but the idea that the craziness in the republican party is really a astounding. It hasn't gotten better. That's to be one of the biggest stories of the last six months or so. It hasn't gotten better despite the fact that trump has gone. Yeah it's it's frightening. They are afraid of their base right. That's what it is. They're just afraid they're afraid of trump because they're afraid of his base and this gets down something. I talked about all the time my listeners. Hear me talk about which is the kind of to universities of information information and disinformation and boy. Oh boy there's i think a lot of most maybe all of the people who storm the capital on january. Six actually believe the election was stolen. I think is horrible. Disinformation echo chamber problem. And all that made worse by social media and all that and and then there's the thing that makes it Really compounds the problem a lot. Which is the elite republicans who don't believe a lot of the stuff they're not idiots you know. They know the election was stolen. They know that biden's not gonna restrict One hamburger week. Whatever the latest insane. Fox's wasn't but they want some of the republican policies and they're just willing to go along with that in adults that that's really the mitch mcconnell types you might say kevin mccarthy somewhat were craven version of of of the same thing and those will will will blow. Someone's more craven mcconnell. But yet you have a served for them so you know better but mcconnell did sorta did stand up against overturning. The election sort of belatedly whereas order something when you do that right away just like have all of them but there are some slight but again i think the conservative elites are curious way we take with the everyone's so focused on the base which is a terrible problem that thirty percent or something of america police. Totally ridiculous insane conspiracies and so forth but that the elites have gone along with it and tried to manipulate it to their advantage at not stood up against it has been extremely damaged journal. Editorial page has not done as much damage as fox news but they've done a lot of damage and mostly by going along with the damage has been done by fox news or rationalizing excusing it or minimizing. It we'll be right back with crystal who served in the reagan administration and the george h w bush administration not in the w administration or of course the trump administration. I got that wrong in the intro. I'm ashamed. I'm ashamed but we'll be right back and i won't make any mistakes. I think in an expert. We've right back. So have you ever browse in incognito mode is probably not as incognito as you think and why would be incognito mode like the chrome browser itself is a google product and google has made a fortune by tracking your movements online. There's even a five billion dollar class action lawsuit against the company in california where it's accused of secretly collecting user data. Google's defense incognito does not mean invisible. That's literally their defense. So how do you actually make yourself as invisible as possible on line well express. 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You're you're someone who has a phd in political science your journalists you write about this and have been thought leader in conservative circles. How have you changed is start with trump or did it start earlier. I think trump provoked the reaction which led to some rethinking. I think that's natural. You can't just have event like trump happen. I think it's behind to say well. Everything was great. And this thing just came out of nowhere. I'm not going rethink any of my previous positions when i see my previous going off in this or at least if not allies kind of people i you know vaguely sign of going off in this horrible direction. So i think you'd have to be pretty foolish. Frankly not to rethink some things. So i've tried to do some rethinking. And it's i think. Scott like a lotta people to dog matic to partisan i thought of myself as being sort of contrary unwilling willing to take on republican orthodoxies. And i think. I didn't some areas that i supported things. The obama administration did especially said term of the foreign policy. Things certainly clinton's Support many of their things. I wasn't. I don't think the worst of the kind of partisan types. But in retrospect i think i. I didn't see certain things as clearly as i should have fought. Something's at educated. I fought ron. Paul ii was clear. I think about some of those aspects of the conservative movement. But i underestimated their strength. And how much other people willing to go along with them. So yes the short answer. Long shortfall Answers is. I've done a fair amount of rethinking of my own past. I mean i would say it's easier for me. Maybe a little bit because charlie saxton. I imagine very thoughtful in order. Good book about this actually We both were democrats. Were kids literally. Kids like high school stuff About for schubert and sixty eight. I worked for scoop jackson. When i was at harvard and seventy two volunteered beginning at my very successful political career scoop ran seventh in the massachusetts primary. That year behind. Wilbur mills and i actually worked for warning in the seventy six primary frank so i was. I was kind of a humphrey more to head democrat in the became a reagan republican like many other people by nineteen eighty. So i always had a little bit of a memory that hey there were. There are decent democrats pam. What was a friend you know. I mean i. My parents had many friends of that sort. So i i think that made it a little easier for me maybe to to break frankly with the republican party to say look. I'm voting for joe biden. No ifs ands buts about it. No big apologies are no no big. store anguish about voting for a democrat Little easier than someone who really just grew up in the fold and had a tough time breaking out. Sure and i think it isn't difficult if you're clear eyed to go like the hell trump and do do all of those guys. I mentioned Dead Stuart stevens wrote a book. It was all. Why aren't if you look at it. As pat moynihan who i mentioned used to say i think alani went used to my mom. My mother would tell me he wants us to were pretty good friends and it was. That was the senator busy man and he started going off about some book. That was like a six hundred page biography of. I dunno. yates or something. I making that off. You know what i mean. Something was wrong. Acquired reading is your senator is going on about it very interesting. This and that and my mom said to pat pat. You have had time. You've read the whole book and listen. I've read in it. So i i think in stewart stephen book which is a very wonderful vague. Way of you've read something between the jacket flap and the whole and whole chapter. That was a pretty good moynahan. By the way. I knew a moment. It's pretty easy to imitate. Frankly yeah well you don't hear many moynahan versions just these days especially you have anyway. But stewart was saying you know. I'll i'll give you an example of where i focused in on that which is when W was running he ran. I remember that first debate any said by far the vast majority of my tax cuts go to those at the bottom. And they didn't they just didn't it wasn't even close you and also date. Supposedly republicans cared about deficits. I remember that. And and i had this experience when i got in there where that's what. Republicans seem to care about deficits but they piled up huge deficits under reagan to a great extent under h w who did raise taxes That cost him his presidency. Probably too great example. That's got buchanan all that stuff but it seems like republicans really care about deficits and the debt when there's a democrat as president acknowledged that i mean is obvious right. I'm sorry certain. Amount of someone had but his point The board Camera was jonathan last. My colleague who's very sharp acerbic writer that there's a big difference between having a. Let's say a partisan interpretation of reality astray certain facts at the expense of others thinking about your side and just living in a totally different reality. You know what i mean. I really feel like that. It has been a. There's been some great along the way. But i think it's been sort of. There's a difference between putting a rosy picture of some economic policies or exaggerating the benefits to the working class of some tax cuts because of arguments about trickle down or whatever on the one hand and the kind of what's what we've seen under trump but having said that look i think it was has been a fair amount of that. On on the republican side a little bit of the on the democratic side. I was mccain support in two thousand. That was such a bitter race that actually for all that hawk and supported lot of the foreign policy stuff after nine eleven I was not an object With the bush team maybe a little bit the second term when things mccain thing was already kind of been been a long time ago so i think the mccain thing i'll say i'll say supporting mccain who had gotten to know of the nineties really is. We were both hawkish on foreign policy. We both supported. Ironically clinton on bosnia kosovo unless thanks that encounter with the kind of the pre trump republican establishment. Was a bit of a wakeup call me you know. I was a young person in the first bush reagan administrations. I looked up to these people out the well. You know. I just thought pretty impressive to see them up close in the car rose to the world is not particularly edifying sight dance so i think i may have been a little more prepared for the kind of terrible disappointment in the republican party that i saw pretty close sixteen still astonished. Aren't you george. I want to ask you this question conversation. Aren't you a little trump. As president would have been bad news obviously very bad for the country and so forth but but if republicans stood up in congress it would have been a much more manageable and containable problem that the enabling of trump the capitulation to trump the letting him and helping him take over the party which were now still seeing the effects. Of course that. I guess i fully expect that. And and that really is is is the cause of so much of the damage is what i think of a bad precedent for years something to have one of the two major political parties basically often conspiracy land and anti-democratic land. And you know the whole thing right. Fox news land and it's a little different. I think first of all during that campaign right Before he got the nomination all my republican colleagues were just aghast. This guy was doing well and if you look at it of course he did well because of first of all the other candidates were terrible candidates right just they just were and secondly. I think you've said this. Like starting like two thousand fourteen or something people started in the united states are saying you know what my kids aren't going to do better than i yeah. Yeah yeah. bill. Gallstone guide bookings who have done to work with. Says he could see it in the polls twenty thirteen fourteen. Two comeback was happening a little bit recovery. From oh eight you know and then sold out with install. Outages was slow and people sort of realized that if the kids hadn't had four years to college and you know maybe it has problems. They might well not even make it to their standard of living. I don't know how widespread that is really you look at the data. It's a little complicated. But i think that was a moment where there was a lot of unhappiness in exile eighty to be exploited by someone like trump. Yeah i think that was and i think also exploited Politics racial politics People's feeling that that helps people of color takes away from me all of that. And i also remember like watching the south carolina debate and south carolina. Big military state right lot of veterans there and bassist and he said the war in iraq was a mistake and no republican had ever said that was running for president had ever said something like that and the crowd agreed in in this very conservative very military state tuned in in a way that the others weren't You know and also he had this gift of being able to get up in front of a crowd and riff for an hour in an entertaining way. I mean entertaining in the sense of you know like watching a guy by the head off a chicken is entertaining like you know but still It and you know kind of funny in lod way whether you're laughing at him or with them and they were laughing with them and you know i. I still believe that. We're going to build the wall in mexico's gonna pay for. It was just something he said and the crowd went in. That became part of the thing right. I think we're broadly a friend of mine. Who had been involved as fast way. Who's involved in presidential campaign. said he watched trump. he thought trump could win right from the beginning. Because trump did what you have to do. If you're good to be a good candidate is he. He really learned from the crowds and learned from what tested a ton of things. The ones that didn't go anywhere. He just sort of quietly tossed aside. He was in that way a little more disciplined than people realize and the stuff that took off. He just milked and milk and milk until it finally diminishing returns if it ever did with the immigration stop them mexicans in the wall the muslim ban you know and he was willing to of course say incredibly irresponsible demagogic things that others weren't really willing to say and he was clever. It was a good demagogue right. He was a clever at figuring out what would push peoples buttons and they just kept pushing them. As opposed to like rubio jeb we read jab earnestly believe what he believed said it in folly wants to go to win pretty early and at attack trump actually to his credit whereas rubio was much more pathetic. I thought i'm not sure. If i was i was a little surprised. I hadn't slightly higher opinion of him but yeah he he. Just i want saying is they. Were running conventional campaigns in a year. You couldn't do that or against the guy who was just completely separated himself from everybody and also took all the airtime. Because cnn would be speaking. Let's wait a minute as plain as about the land. Let's go to it. You know me and you get a situation where people are kind of unhappy with the way things are going and the republican front runners named bush literally would have been the third unprecedented in the third member of the family to be president. Within thirty years and the democratic frontrunner nominee is named clinton the wife former santana state under president obama. So it was sort of like you couldn't have a better setup for a outsider. Insurgent you know shake things up drain the swamp. It was really. That's which is why. I will say i was totally rugrats series. I thought trump would be just another in a herman. Cain kind of can troublemaker. Outside or the fours would fall short. The republican party pretty good track record at that point of nominating dole's in the bushes. The romney's mccain's anyway. He saw the opportunity in general. I always thought he had a chance to win. I mean i remember saying this on. Tv many times being on with some of hillary's people who were Political types and they were very confident. And i was. I thought she would probably win. That's what the poll suggested. But i thought it was like a one in four chance that she wouldn't that trump would win because there was such an outsider sentiment. And i just never underestimate that willingness to vote for change at a risk for change and to discount the risks foolishly. In fact you know in terms of like what what damage the guy could do. I remember having somebody arguments in two thousand sixteen truck rally in northern virginia and someone radio sets trump on ice well. I think it's pretty dangerous. Now he's gonna shake things up. I made some sort of platitudinous commonwealth shake things up to exercise. Like you don't have a good outcome. you know. The whole house falls down whenever and whatever. The metaphor no couldn't be couldn't get worse bill. It couldn't get worse. I can get worse than it is. Today is really an american young people. Talk themselves to that okay. Well let's let's talk about just your again. I want to get back to sort of you. Mind being called the intellectual or that the bad term. No i don't care okay. You're not offended by at least okay so But tell me just about what you've changed about like for example. Were you against the aca when it happened. Yes i'm i think i'm kind of standard conservative We wanna tax credits. Not a bunch of government run exchanges. I'm headache that. I'd say i haven't changed much on foreign policy where i remain kind of unrepentant inch hawkish international. As we'll talk about that. I mean i was wrong about some details iowa gary grant writing and i actually someone off the buy stuff happy with vitamin stations. I find that i was wrong. In unraced to a considerable degree. I'm not wrong. I was liberal. Civil rights person sixties and all that obviously in new york. And i you know a right winger exactly on race but i i just underestimated the problems of police saying end of all the kind of the things that have been so visible. That's pre cell phone. Yeah yeah now. it isn't and also i look. I'm from new york that they juliani Look like was falling apart and going down the tubes and had a pretty amazing comeback over twenty years and i was one of those thought. Yeah giuliani by a couple of things with the down down. At the end of the day it was it was once interest including african-americans four people that the city much safer which is totally false. Obviously and so. I think on those kinds of issues i was just much too complacent sort of a kind of conventional center center right attitude economics every thought some pretty much a free market free trade a liberal immigration. But i mean well you know. Income inequality is a problem with their ways to deal with that a pretty conventional your views on that has centers or just make tax code were progressive and all that Like to hear that about that too. Well i mean that's one reason i sort of liked the biden slough. Is that a lot of what he's done is not try to run. The country from washington government programs micromanaging. It's like you know what people need more money to help in this emergency in helping their kids in the little this way. Businesses keep goes. Let's just give us more money yet. In a way in that respect. It's the sorta i was a neoconservative but you know it's more of a. It's not a big government out Expertise kind of activism as much as it is. What if we have to run death. We have to run data so we just need to help people make it through this period. And so i'm i'm much more sympathetic to that. But we'll move to the next that that stuff that you may be yes so some of that stuff has to happen. Clean clean energy. I'm pretty struck. That lot of it is pretty again. It gets a little more You know intrusive. I guess you'd say but a lot of it is incentives kind of and stuff like carbon tax for thirty articles in favor of a carbon tax in the weekly standard. It was the kind of classic thing that liberal conservative. Economists would agree that if you were going to get more tax revenue. That was the sensible way to do things. Biden doesn't have ironically right in his proposals. Kinda funny in a way. I think that the most liberals for carbon tax taxes for revenue neutral tax so at so people were forest and the money goes back to people who cause gasoline. The price of gasoline is the most important thing to a lot of people. Yes there are ways to be bait. That's a lower middle income people and stuff and that's been of the different kinds of proposals you can have an equivalent payroll tax cut anyway. Whatever yeah we're going to. What else do. I just saw your band race. You're bad on racist. I'm joking. I'm the joke was a joke. I don't have these used us being. Yeah and i think i just earnestly was too conservative with a little see. I think you know in a in a in a well-meaning way. If i could say i mean about a bunch marriage apple i mean i just thought well meaning way. Okay risky to experiment with institutions. But around all the time. I just didn't really appreciate i have. I'm happy. We are where we are now on. Same sex marriage out a whole bunch of issues like that. Well you know. Clinton was for The fence of marriage act at obama signed and obama wasn't fortunate evolved and so i don't feel too embarrassed about that. So that's really. What is your sense of the biden administration. You know better than i do. You're actually democrats quite well. So here's my sense of it. Here's my sensibly. So what's going on in the senate and and what's going on and that that's do of course getting this legislation done. I think it's really interesting. What mansions doing. And i think that first of all democrats liberal very liberal democrats very progressive democrats should thank god that joe manchin in the senate because biden loss west virginia by forty points. Yeah so so The fact that mansions there is reason we have the majority so he has been kind of crafty. I think on on this. And basically wrote a op ed in the washington post saying i'm against getting rid of the filibuster weakening. It didn't say modifying didn't say. I'm against modifying. Sit him against weakening it. He said what i wanna do is get back to regular order. Basically is what he said. Which means you have hearings in committees and then you write bills in committee pass my committee the go to the floor. You have an open amendment process right. We haven't really had while he wants to do that. We could do that. If republicans would cooperate if they would do that. And i have the feeling what he said in that op. Ed was but they better do this. and so i think that this is a bit of a long game i do think that on infrastructure i hope i hope that they can come to some accommodation but again i think it might be funding levels and might also be what this back but buddha judges talking about what i hear. Is that this jobs jobs sir. You know blue collar people and boy. Oh boy you know a senator you go round that your state and you get shown in every community the infrastructure project they want and you go and you see that the Road the tracks are between the town and the hospital and that there is a oil train you know it lasts twenty minutes so that an ambulance has to wait twenty minutes while his train pass and all they want is an underpass right. So and there's millions of those. Let's do those and let let's let's have you know. Americans want a infrastructure. Looks like the rest of the world the rest of the developed world were. what am i doing. I'm trying to make the case for an infrastructure. But this ridiculous. What we're talking about is can we get that done. And i think that might be the one that goes to reconciliation actually right because the parliamentarian said they for another reconciliation. Bill which i don't i don't know i don't know i'm not a parliamentarian so i think that's going to be probably and that'll be good. People will like that But i don't have. I don't hold out a lot of hope for i. Think mcconnell is just wants to get the senate back in the mid terms and it's going to do everything he can to do that and i think. In the past what he's done is obstruct. Yeah i mean never come out of a pandemic like this had a post trump presidency. So maybe your kind of rules of the past. Don't quite hold the electoral implications of that. I don't know whether biden can get. How much credit he can get. How much a democratic senate candidate in. Pennsylvania or wisconsin can a biden democrat and be ron johnson or went to a seat. That's a huge question which is still we. Just don't know at this stage. I think i think it does depend democrats nominate to obviously speaking of sykes. He ran johnson fan at one time. One he sort of as as long as he says in politics is is a lot he sort of invented. Ron johnson johnson was the slightly obscure businessman who gave a speech side rhonda's outsider. I think it was twenty. Ten forgot the math right. And that's the one year and so you ended up primary. And i don't know that he was favorite or i or anything. Charlie kind of is very taken with the speech that gave thought well. This is a genuine outsider. Miss south late Really speak for the. He wasn't a self made businessman. Let me say you know the two most important words he said in his business career i do is that right. I didn't know that is that true. Okay well yeah as father-in-law swipes dad is like this. Billionaire was a plastics company and he sets up his son and his son-in-law in this business where the their only customer is the dads and the father-in-law's plastics business. There's a little more that among the self made than one thinks that i may be not low. We have great examples in america style of that obviously genuine. No they're really like. Ross perot was self made right. Yeah he was not but he was self may allow the tech guys. I'm universally is pretty impressive but Yeah no people have done really impressive self made things you know who wasn't one of them. Ron johnson okay. You guys minnesota wisconsin. It's all one big. He's not the brightest. No i say. No i would not. I would expect it to be conventional on an imaginative and just kind of But to go crazy this way. I that does tell us the power of kinda. I mean this is. What's a little unnerved way. That a little nervous about this moment. I mean the power of a kind of what a demagogue Sets the lights batch and finds a lot of wood and then it just takes off and everyone else other. People jump on board for the ride to mix metaphors in the exile stirred the prejudices that can be awakened. Reawakened door exaggerated even heightened. It's pretty bad. As a i find most people like i mean liberals thought these trump people were sullen bitter angry types in this country to that obviously they like those rallies they were kind of fun from their point of view know they were fun partly mocking. You know disabled people and by you know flaws ferreira's by launching their success over you know as opposed to african americans and so forth evidence. It's creepy scaring scaring the members of the press. But they they was westville. Get used to that. Don't politics my point is. That's it's hard to get back away. It's hard to get people you're not supposed to enjoy. You're supposed to refrain from enjoying being a bully. Part of bob. But people like being parts of bob's at least temporarily. I guess history suggests that and at satisfying some visceral way and and that's what scares me. The most about the current moment about the mob spirit is really alive. in the republican party. On the right. There's some on the left obviously to the woke left and so it's you know a lot of having a healthy democracies resisting the bob spirit. Let's go look go to foreign policy. Let's talk first about afghanistan. I think you're against that biden's decision there. I was i mean i didn't i understand it and i understand that people are often tired of it and you know. I don't think i didn't make a huge deal of it. I mean but i think it's just improved if can have three thousand troops there and keep an adequate if not good better than worst case situation to stable without much way for the american casualties. I think it'd be worse. Lead leading the status quo. Sit there for for awhile. Continue to work on of the things but you know in the in the region in the country. But i understand why did it. I hate the rhetoric of you. Know we're never gonna fight these forever wars. I just think you're going to have to have america's american willingness to do peacekeeping and occasional fighting unfortunately around the world and and stick with our allies and have forced projection. And all that. So i am an old fashioned kind of south internationalist of that type. I guess you'd say Still well as senator you go to funerals and you talk the families and you want the families be proud of the service and they should be. They should be But i talked to more than a few parents who and spouses serra. Who were saying what the hell doing. Yeah yeah you know and same. You know same iraq and i see that you know a presence there like a counterterrorism disaster bans gonna take over. It's going to be asked for women bad but but you know i've heard people say like well. We've been in south korea since the korean war. Yes south korea is industrialized. I mean is. This is doing great. Afghanistan is just not going to. That's not going to happen. They're going to keep going on. And it'd be nice to have some kind of counter terrorism force where be don't have al qaeda anymore but isis in get in there and that. And that's what happened in the withdrawing from iraq right. I think there are ways. I think the biden people talking a little bit about quietly about well at this week literally. Don't have anyone there in terms of some t. some counterterrorism and some covert operatives. Who knows maybe they can keep the lid on without an explicit over force presence of fees as order we have also now Let's talk about cheney and iraq and rumsfeld. I so we the weekly standard this is of course. No one remembers What we were very anti assault from the beginning before the war. We were worried there were enough to were the mccain which was to get do it. Send enough troops stabilize the situation to a lot of civilian staff and so we were very critical word before the war. They thought they could just go in and out. We became strong critics by september of two thousand three in iraq. Ram sell ban the others at the weekly standard for the pentagon so furious at has called from to be fired in two thousand four and of course bush kept on for two years which is really disastrous. But could still of a it more. You know you could have had the surge two years earlier would have been a lot less less deaths a little more of a chance of keeping kind of a residual force in keeping it in a stable situation so i was on one of those to those Unique security conferences that mccain used to take a delegation to and at or levied or lebron all those characters that advice quote journalists types of foreign policy experts you know previous administrations and so forth out of the planes sounds funding to go on one of these ice. Us air force planes senators get us just a long weekend at munich so So we i was. It was two thousand three. I remember this right before the war. So it's like february to january february two thousand three sandy. Berger who had been bill clinton Riser was on the plato slightly. And he said look young. Hillary voted for the war. And i respect your advocacy for it. I think you mean well at all this but he said i just don't trust these guys to do it competently especially around twelve. I think very worried. And i said the coming once they really go to war. They're not going to be a responsible not not be serious about getting the right. People in general is in there and not just trying to do it in the cheap and all this and berger said nah. I hope you're right. I hope you're right and you know we just left it. At the end. there was no argument. We just left it at that and it's really stuck in. He died two years later. Kinda young but i stuck in my mind because i mean some believable. You look the way around so ran the thing. He didn't find the right generals he just let the people who were next in line run it. They had no guidance. Particularly than grammar shows op. They dismantled the army. I mean it's just it was basically You're you're you're fired. You're fired now with you god. And and by the way and by the way we're just gonna fire. Oh man we're gonna fire. All the people know how the electricity works in the waterworks We're just going to have chaos and we're not going to protect me. Oh my god that was so stupid and rumsfeld. Yeah do you remember when the guy started protesting because they didn't have body armor and they weren't under honoring the humvee as the vehicles. Yeah yeah and that was like a couple years into the war and he said something like Well you go to war with the our military have not with military and he said that longer after nine eleven then iwojima was after pearl harbor. He he was terrible. Yeah i remember gates one of the first things gates took over and i guess it was very beginning of two thousand. Seven was addressed that actually they. They told the well. We'll take sir you know. Twenty four runs for the bidding in the cure. Minniti said screw that. I want this to the next item was sixty days. I think they did do it. Actually they up. Armored these the eagles. I guess so. Yeah no russell. Never had for all of his macho talk about being a take charge. Get it done guy. He actually didn't do that. In the he. E sidelined people who could be critical of people like portray us who had different theories for how to fight the war. Were sort of set to off Where was he to leavenworth. Kansas and two thousand five two thousand six writing the manual counterinsurgency and russell the disastrous Rumsfeld is not something. i'm since the left. Tend to want to say they were all terrible in the right reasons. I can't quite remember No one's really held him as a cat now. Bush has to be held accountable for having a kind of belief. I guess in rumsfeld. Maybe a little intimidated by honestly. I don't know shady shady defended rumsfeld so that it was a very powell checked out it was a terrible. I've ever talking to the people like me. Who were hawks. On the outside into three four we were just in despair because there was no one who is like being serious about running this thing. We'll also i mean look member. Johnny said You know there's no doubt that. Saddam has weapons of mass. Was right again. That was not true and That was an also. He said that autumn met With iraq Rockies in prague right so a lot of it was based on now they were part of nine eleven and they weren't and they had weapons of mass destruction and they didn't and so. Maybe we shouldn't have done that. Because you know you keep saddam there there a counter to that. We really want once or in there. I mean anyway. It's it's kind was a disaster was a great. I mean that's down answers by two thousand nine. When president obama took over. I mean it was. It was the other weapons of mass destruction. Intelligence failures still amazing in but things were. I mean didn't destabilize the entire middle east and all that kind of thing you stabilize some of those places war just kind of left everything. The way it was and then there's the arab spring where the disaster that it's so deterred us from being won't do watch such a one wanted to have another iraq so we didn't do anything with syria. We didn't do anything in a lot of places we ended up. Did something libya. Yeah well as averages of quickly in the follow up. So i mean i. I would argue that we the accommodation Disastrous of incompetently for or based on mistaken arguments promises and then the sort of reaction to that incomparably for end withdrawal which the I think we still have opportunities to have a better middle east actually in five or ten or twenty years and there's still positive trends there actually's also maybe that would be what are the. What are those exactly. Well i do think. The arab spring remains the sense. I think this. I think they did puncture. Bush punctured the notion that those people should just be happy to live under horrible dictatorships. Forever feels to me like there are more people in the middle east We may have hurt their chances in some ways but who really want to fight against that that whether we how much we can actually help them anew you have saudi problem and stuff. I'm not minimizing any of it but authoritarians russia and china have also on the on the offensive. So it's not a good. I mean this is one thing. I think people are underestimating. The biden administration ended up being a pretty could have major foreign policy challenges to deal with. You know six months a year or two wants two years for now not just not just a domestic policy thing with a couple of our policies. I chose people the understandable. You're focused for now on the pandemic and and some of the domestic issues you know but it could be a little like fdr people a barrister but he was both domestic and foreign policy right so it was kind of a pretty good president. You know if i when. I know tony blinken. When he was named secretary of state. I texted him and i said well i hope nothing really bad happens next. Four years and boy. Oh boy well. I think we should wrap this up. But pleasure talking to you. I enjoyed it. This is interesting. Some memories pleasant not pleasant of iraq but now important to go back over to try to think through obviously but it is an interesting and unusual moment. I mean it's not a great moment In our industry with trump the facts. But i don't know maybe somehow you know these things can sometimes reverse faster than one. Thanks right somehow. It could have come out of this. It a healthier too few years. Maybe sep possible origin getting myself. Well again i keep my listeners. Know this i keep emphasizing. This disinformation universe. That seems and you know. I wrote that book. Rush limbaugh big fat idiot yeller observations and he was kind of the big bang. And it just seems like this with fox and then the internet and just expanding in oh yeah and that's pernicious. I mean and dangerous and having a party kind of just it in amplifying it you know so. It's not just because the scariest part which is like really guys. Come on you know right. Have you thought about maybe being responsible. Now i get real. I want to get reelected. Though i the only way i can not get reelected they lose the primary to republicans to my right. So i'm going to be i'm gonna keep keep backing nutcase thing Well keep up The fight from your side. And i'll keep up the fight from my side. Maybe you know meet their. I look forward to that and Good luck and thanks for having me well. I hope you enjoyed Listening that beautiful music is by leo. Cocky greatly cocky. I wanna thank peter osborne. For producing this podcast. We'll talk again next week.

biden William kristol jill saint republican party trump Mr mcconnell obama William crystal ron doron anna dunno biden administration karen sir george w bush administration sir mr mccain Sir mervyn
Gene Epstein On The Economics Of Corona

Part of the Problem

1:10:51 hr | 1 year ago

Gene Epstein On The Economics Of Corona

"We need to roll back. The State we sti- on all of our citizens. Our prisons are flooded with non violent drug offenders. If you want to know who? America's next enemy is looking at funding. Every one of these problems are open government. Doing you bet did you hello. Hello what's up everybody? Welcome to a brand new episode of part of the problem. I have with me as those of you. Watching the video can see already the Great Jean Epstein who is one of my favorite guests to have on the show and I I very much wanted To talk to him because I wanted to talk to an economist About what's going on because there is obviously a huge massive effect on the economy from these government shutdowns of major cities and states all across the country Gene of course is The head of the New York Crime family of Libertarians. He is the director of the Soho Forum. Which is just a wonderful debate series. Which of course much like everything else in this country has a has also been affected by The the shutdown and But anyway there's you can go to the Soho Forum Dot Org And and you can see all of the the previous debates and we're hoping to To get back on their feet just as every business in New York is Is Hoping Right now so how? Why don't we start there? How has the The Soho Form Benefactor by the shutdown well indeed We've been affected pretty severely. But I I wanNA thank you dave for having the courage to show up at our march ninth debate now was pretty recent and I did get a few emails from concerned folks. Who Su said for example? Aren't you going to feel bad in a couple of days? If some people get some people die from this from this cluster folks who will come into the subculture theater and I felt at that early stage as long as we take all precautions. I emphasize of Japanese bowing. And keeping your distance. As best you could that this show should go on and in fact part of what was going on is that we were. We were selling out big time and that that when we actually did declare sell out up people still went on waiting lists for this event that was that was on on big tech and antitrust with Tim Wu versus Richard Epstein and dot. I think that that the event Went off quite well and in a sanitary way because at that point certainly very few afflicted people I felt only healthy people to come so we did have a capacity crowd at margin I then a few days later we realized that our to events in April should be postponed. We did that and then we were hoping against hope about our may temp event. Which I know you were looking forward to the day that was of course Scott Horton versus William Kristol. And then we suddenly get a note in the mail from the new school which has the eight hundred seat auditorium. We're going to have this end that they're shutting down for the month of May anyway so we couldn't have it there. We've had actually scrambled because we're intrepid and we didn't want to disappoint people and we contacted symphony space. We simply baseball commercial. Space Uptown. Used to be a theater almost the same size as the eight hundred Cedar and they said they could give us a slot on May twenty. Seventh is what we chose late. May and we actually have tentatively set down and then we also tenderly goals meanwhile course assure everybody that both William Kristol and Scott Horton and William Kristol especially. I should emphasize have graciously agreed to be flexible into show up when we can accommodate them. And so I ended up by the way defending William Crystal's character because people keep accusing him of dropping out. John Gallows humor jokes. You brought the sacristy scared to debate Scott what he is being a perfect gentleman about this and he saying fine. Let's do it when you can make it. And he's accepting by the way the same chump. Change was the bullpen. Scott Horton. He's he hasn't jacked up his feet and so I have to give him credit for that. And I want that known and and plays of course you people at the quit assassinating the character William Kristol come here and debate. When the time comes and boo and hiss and cheer when you want to but don't assassinate the men's Casu anymore so so where look and then I also want to announce that we're trying to go up online. Tried to do some creative things. So we're promoting our soul for inner circle that we stole that. Turn from you David. Because you don't believe in intellectual property the formula circle at facebook and we thought that since we have a library. Now forty-one fascinating debates. We thought that we choose one a week for people to comment on. The question is if you if you saw the debate already a attended the debates or so. I listened to it by the way. Go into the SOHO FORM DEBATES PODCAST. These or from the sole form debates podcast to listen to any of our debate. Then explain how you voted and then explain why and then of course. We haven't listened to listen to explain how you voted in. Explain why and we thought that given the fact that the Democratic and Republican candidates are pretty much anointed and given the fact that the L. P. candidate is summit up for grabs that we would resurrect and feature discussion of David Smith debate with Nicholas Walk. And so that's the debate. Do a do not do sure but do week that we're going to be discussing out online Because I think it is topical and by the way. I'm not GONNA do any spoilers about who won that debate Dave because I've had people incentivized to listen to it and I know that Jane is of course giving you a Freebie you know. I've been a journalist. My Life Wear Moocher's inherently we depend on our freebies. You're going to get a free. Membership is only ten dollars to join. But you're going to get a free. Be Davis going to be zero because you might find some interesting commentary on on that site I go to the Soho from dot org these dot org to get to become a member of the form inner circle and listen to watch DAVE'S DEBATE. Nick saw walk. So that's how we're staying alive and well and and and continuing to sell for him no doubt. We'll have those live offense again because again. The cell phone has a twofold mission not just F- stimulating the debates or indeed to put those debates online. You've had I think your debate with Knicks are quite well. David think about thirty thousand Youtube Views. Which is a measure we get now. I have had my debate with Richard. Wolfe has gotten six hundred seventy thousand youtube. It's the number one debate A. It's actually outdistance the when we had on on Bitcoin but you is at thirty thousand is quite good and no doubt it will climb because of all this interest that will promote because. I'm list abate between I should say on impassioned guy. I think I think Dave as a kind of a slugger day was so intense. He was willing to take blows. He was just in there basically arguing passionately for us. 'cause at against the professional like Nixon who knew how to dance around Bob and weave. That's why now I said to to pugilists battle and then you'll be surprised at who when the debate you'll be shocked shocked by. Who won the debate? Who made but but of course but of course we're going to speak to a revolt because a lot of new people are going to see it and discuss it and talk about how they voted first and then how they voted second. Of course I guess. The context has changed a little bit because now although I couldn't believe you discussion with Scott the other day Wisconsin saying let that you. Joe Biden is going to expire before August. I guess is that what you're predicting is. Well he's not going to become the nominee Scott was practically saying that. No that's no mixed words. That's exactly what Scott was saying. I'm not quite as convinced as he is although I do. I do think that there is a possibility that he might be right about that. I think that Joe Biden is in a steep mental decline and that he's he actually struggles to answer one single question with out fumbling and stuttering losing his train of thought. He's he's done a lot of really really weird things And so I don't know I think it is. It's it's at least a question mark and the and then again. I'm I'm curious about this because getting value I value our ability to predict. Because you think it through and you're not infrequently wrong but at least it's worth listening to Scott. Of course his specialty in his genius is Is Teaching foreign policy to those fat housewives in Ohio? If you recall one said that in front of you day and you didn't have the presence of mind to challenge. And what about those fat househusbands? So he talked about that but of course I. I'm kidding about Scott as I've said many times you and I are merely brilliant. Tom Woods is merely brilliant Scottish. Perhaps a are only authentic genius. And so what so I forgive him even those gaps but but getting back to you You are a forecasting ability in terms of politics is better than has a sort of Joe. Biden. It's not going to be Michael Bloomberg. That's what that's what Scott rejected. So who could I mean you know if it were to go to the convention My burning and radically possible but I just don't see the Democrats giving it to him. I think they would pick an outside are a governor. Perhaps and the Guy I'm looking at now is probably Andrew Cuomo because he's really risen to national prominence over you know his his handling of the corona situation and there's something about People really in an emergency really praise the politician who's seen as the leader even when they're really not doing anything. Do you remember how much. Giuliani guy. After nine. Eleven and really all he did was kind of say what anyone would say in the situation and he did a lot of people translate hugging people and that was very sweet and indeed no When when he became when he went before Congress but some kind of post mortem it was pointed out by lots of different reporters have different strives. That that there was a lot lacking in the way his organizations coordinating and nobody put him in the hotseat because because he was the walk on Wood or Angela mercy even though even though the there was a lot of incompetence in the way and nine eleven was handled as inevitably does occur but they just softball maybe they were to ask them some obvious questions so that is interesting. You're right it's the calm voice and I guess you'd probably say that I I will say that. The trump didn't sound so bad the other day few days ago when he was doing a press conference he. He sounds like he wasn't. How'd you think you guys in a conciliatory tone was friendly to the Blasio China? No no no I thought I thought he's I guess he's he's done fine. I mean and I say the same thing about Cuomo that's fine you know The problem is as I'm sure you'll agree. Is that the the state by its very. Nature is just so incapable of handling these type of situations. They're incapable of making the right decisions of knowing you know like how do you know how best to resources? And so of course they they. You know mess up the response to these type of situations just by by the very nature of how the organization is top down organized. Not I I I guess look in the Progressives and those who worship power than come back at us and say but isn't it good to had a mayor whose hugging a lot of people doesn't make a lot of citizens feel better doesn't lift the mood and lift the spirits of many and all the rest and doesn't is great when after you are said the only thing you have to fear is we have to fear. Fear it's not always. I guess you'd have to grant that Hitler Mussolini or whoever is leading the country. If a lot of people look up to him it's nice that that people feel better if our leader sounds reassuring I guess that's the that's the that's the positive side of it and the negative side of it are the corpses the mountains of corpses lying all around the world. Where you have a point you never i. Let's take a quick second and thank our sponsor for today's show. Which is Vince Sarah Watches? I'll tell you guys I'm not usually a watch guy but I just got my second. Watch from been Sarah. They are my go to brand for affordable quality watches a day just dropped their new altitude collection. And they're beautiful. I mean you have to check these out really beautiful watches. 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Let's get back into the show so I wanted to mention. I guess going to the I put this phrase in the language that probably only lasted forty eight hours. Jeff Tucker liked it. I'm calling it the great recession or the Great Depression but the great suppression the defined as a case in which governments iron fist shuts down a huge share of cop let acts between consenting adults thereby causing a severe economic contraction and somebody tweeted To me just an hour ago yet. But you know how `bout adding that doing it in order to address the Coronado virus and you schmuck into winter to point that out. Why be so bias? And so I- countered by saying. Hey look yeah but next time government is probably going to do it to shut down. The economy in order will wake threat to civilization as we know it from global warming. You know this could do for that reason too. So maybe other reasons as well. So the reason is inherent in the definition. There may be the the global warming reason is certainly a logical enough. 'cause a causes a great suppression for that reason as well so there's always potentially reason they may be a third reason and by the way. I should also said a judge we mentioned Scott and I. I was impressed by his interview with David. Stockman bet occurred that was on March. Twenty third few days ago and date David by the way took. David did take certain viewpoint that that I a that I agree with that. That essentially this poses this of course is a joy ride for the status on the other hand. He does believe as I do that. There's a fair chance of the economy is GONNA bounce back. I BELIEVE SHIFT DISAGREES WITH THAT. But but but but the point though is that with that said than the ultimate reckoning in terms of of the of what's happening to moral hazard and also what's happening to the business of government is gonNA come a suitor rather than Rather than a later of obviously and that we do face enormous risks down. The road will though David if I interpreted correctly maybe David would disavow this. But he was hoping that maybe some of the awareness of credit crazy disappoint is going on in Washington will begin to reverberate. And maybe maybe we can avoid this but broad brush strokes. It is indeed a huge setback for fiscal and monetary sanity on the other hand. I think that there is a fair chance that the economy will bounce back up by the second half and but but again the the day of reckoning the Congressional Budget Office warning us a of a of a fiscal armageddon given the pilot of debt that will occur even sooner than the Congressional Budget. Office thinks it might occur so I've got out of the LIMO. My broad brush stroke of a forecast. We could go in different directions. Maybe explore that. But go ahead. If you have a question you look at my notes. But what do you want to go? Well I guess but you know. I'm I'm happy to hear you. Anna David Stockman say. You're not convinced that this is going to lead us into a great depression because that is what I was thinking From from the very beginning of this just the idea that you would slow down. There's really You know you're you're a few years older than me. I think six or seven years older than me even even in I'm set I'm still alive at seventy five. There we go there we go so I think that You thirty six so again. I had obviously twice as much wisdom as you just arithmetic error in arithmetic. Allow Will lead to the viewers to crunch the numbers. About how many as well. So I mean. Isn't this in many ways. Unprecedented in your lifetime. I mean the the comparison that I've heard people making his World War Two Where factories were Forcefully transitioned into being war factories and men were drafted and sent off. Women went into the factories. But you didn't have every single coffee shop and everything being shutdown. I mean even even in the height of World War Two worlds. You've had obviously worse. You know human toll in things like that obviously but this is this is really unprecedented and I just. I almost wonder like how can this not have just a devastating effect on the economy? I mean how people are going to lose their jobs. How many small businesses are gonNA fail because of this? Oh sure no cage. Smokey bear in mind that of course. I didn't speak about now ending the month of March and I guess I stick my neck out and said in fact that the that the could be a record the could be recovery by the civil quarter so the next three months is going to be horrendous. And of course the recovery in the summer quarter will mean in terms of conventional measures that were still below The Winter Quarter. Now there was just climbing out a stock rebound so indeed your point about That's why I'm calling it. The Great Depression they are. They're leveling everything of course and across the I mean even World War. Two by the way. The nightclubs booming because the nightclubs of effectively exempt from from price controls and so actually was going on and of course as well a the. The retail retail stores Amazon stock has been rising during this bear market but Amazon is looking to hire hundred thousand where people the the the retailers generally are looking to hire a half a million more people so indeed. It isn't a complete disaster for everybody and there's a real surgery real response taking place on the part of many companies on the other end. Of course we're we're we're the we just got noticed of a three million of people filing for unemployment insurance as of this morning's numbers for last week and that's up from a couple hundred thousand average and that's going to climb again. Oh of course but but let me let me just try to make your what to analogy is kind of interesting. I I guess I could pounce and quite out that you you. Perhaps you're familiar. With the fact that enact by Nike and Forty Three Forty Four. The war ended in forty five. The keynesian economists were absolutely alarmed at the prospect of eleven. Million men being demobilized you perhaps know this history a little bit and and forgetting the name of the prominent Keynesian wasn't Sarah's and it was somebody who was more or less his venture we can't just to spend the army that this is going to court and and put a eleven million men back into the job market and this is going to cause a major depression and that was that was the Keynesian belief. That was a cagey forecast. And you couldn't stop the mobilization and most of these guys to not go to college and take advantage I bill. Most of them returned to work. And and essentially and indeed that the government's Gdp adjustments contribution to GDP and forty collapsed there and and yet the economy was basically in growth path by nineteen forty six. So so so so if you want to extend now then of course you could point about other differences but just bear one thing in mind that that that it was the canes were predicting a depression up a post World War Two that did not occur. I could talk about Wyatt into well so I can't go. That's that's a very good point but from my understanding I would say the real the real difference going forward. Is that what you had With you know on top of the kind of added benefit of you know that every other industrialized country had basically been destroyed by war. And we weren't really hit here at home but well understood. I'm just saying But aside from that where you had were real spending cuts and tax cuts after world. Two now now what now? What are the odds that we're going to see spending cuts after this great suppression? Put it. We're going to see. Two trillion dollar deficits are going to see record high government spending and I don't see these interest rates that were just targeted at zero. I don't see them going anywhere for a long time. So that's the other element of this is that we can almost be assured that we're going to see record. High government spending and zero percent interest rates. I think negative interest rates are are more real possibility than they've ever been before So so who knows? Yeah you're okay. Yeah well well of course I mean I would say we've already had negative interest rates if you take into account the rate of price inflation. The talks been below the price inflation. But I you you raise a good question. Of course obviously. It's I lacked a little bit when you talk about is bending down because I was thinking back on Obama's Bullshit about how incurs these these trillion dollar deficits and? Then he's bragging about how he brought the deficit down a couple of years. You know you you spend like a lunatic and Hamid and then you could always look good if you if you're a little less of a lunatic a year or two later so actually it. If trump does become does have second term the problem would be echoing a bomb and saying hey we managed to bring the two trillion dollar deficit down. You'll be sick so we'll look like a spending but the point is that I do i. I guess I hazard guest to hopefully confronted your point and onto the gas that that the that the debt is going to continue to lead a charmed life that that low interest rate given the fact that in other countries are screwing up in fact the analogy of what you just said I was talking about. How other countries were devastated? Of course we weren't even attack them to the fact is that that is probably similar to put what's really been benefiting the West is that when we took a look at the dollar we're looking at the US economy. We always have to ask compared to what you know. And you know compared to the euro-sclerosis of Europe and compared to other screw ups. Then that's the point and that that via for the US debt you. Perhaps you know that that the actual cost of servicing. The debt is down even though the debt has ballooned and now now all the Congressional Budget Office points out that I've been debt-servicing I forgot the average interest rate has been like what two percent of servicing the debt historically been an average of six percent and ended up and of course if it tripled then that would immediately break the Bank of the US that would really just The cost of debt servicing would go through the roof but I've aggression budget office only projects that it will ultimately maybe ten years climbed back to four point four percent now so again positing that that that the charmed life the US dad has been living given The fact that other countries a week and that we still we still look good compared to everybody else will probably continue. And that and that this pile of debt will still mean that. The cost of debt-servicing will not break the project. Let's take a quick second. I WanNa thank our sponsor for today's show which is blue shoe. 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If you visit blue dot com you'll get your first order free when you use the Promo Code problem. You just pay five dollars shipping. But the order is free that's B. L. U. E. Chew Dot Com Promo Code problem. All right let's get back into the show. I WanNa make one other point. Which of course we did away way is my main point which is that which is that a a a great suppression is a little bit different especially from an standpoint from the from the great recession a great depression because in this case it really is hidden in plain sight of the even. Even though you'd think that even non-austrians could have understood that it was the housing bubble that That precipitated the last recession the o-9 bubble. It was still difficult for them to understand that a that. The way for the economy to reorient is not to goose up housing but to recognize the next part of the malinvestment story for any Austrian. Is that that the male investment is not so you. Don't throw good money after bad. The male investment is the markets mistake induced by government. And that you have to move away from that. The the economy has to find has to sort out on its own and has to find the alternative ways in which it can address viably and so. That's the complication for for the candidates in this particular case it's hidden in plain sight because it really wasn't sparked by Mel Investment Investment. Is there although I would say? This isn't quite as severe as it was last in this case. It really is just a lockdown. It you know I heard Bob Murphy talk about this the other day at wanted to make a point beyond Bob. Makes Bob says what's wrong with people just cinching in their belts. What why are we saying that? That's so terrible. There's nothing so terrible but people sending in their belts and if and when I explained Austrian business cycle theory to people they ask. Why does it always have to come on the investment side a? Why can't they shock to the economy? Come from the consumers and then I tell them yeah. The shock to the economy could come from the consumer. You know how that would work if virtually every household suddenly decided this month. We're going to cut. We're GONNA send you our belts within a plan better for the future and we're going to cut back on consumption by thirty percent if everybody did that overnight and there was suddenly a thirty percent plummeting in consumer spending than than there would be a recession. But it's just as a practical matter. That kind of violent behavior does not happen among the royd. Massive consumers what what the violent shock occurs on the investment side from malinvestment and by the way not all unbalance Investment Violin. Day to go through appropriate to the economy of course equate recession. My point is that that's what has been happening though right now in terms of the suppression of the Great Depression is that is that these are viable businesses. The restaurant that is renting to my wife is a viable business. This is not malinvestment. This is the government lockdown of good investment. Most of it has been good investment SPEC by the way even the worst of pending business cycle most investment is good investment. That's the point by the way I try to make to my fellow. Australians that that there was always a lot of healthy growth and a lot of healthy entrepreneurship taking place in in even the most distorted. Corden capless economy up. And so this is what what has happened. Then is that perfectly solvent? Businesses have been forcibly shut down. That's the major reason for this great suppression and the major reason for the three million spike in investment. And all that needs to be done. Is that those good businesses have to be restored. And what do you think my wife has done with my advice? We're obviously a joint forgiveness on the rent to the restaurant that's renting from Hawaii. Because we know that they're not insolvent they are on illiquid that forced shutdowns will only be shooting ourselves in the foot if we try to make it difficult for them victim. Who the heck else will get if we can if we can stay the course with them and get them back on their feet then than than. We still have a viable business. They built so again. My point is that I'm hopeful and it look in the end in the end I could be dead wrong. There's there's always so many inaugurals not just politics but in an anticipating the economy certainly anticipating the economy over over the next several months. But the what does impress me is that this is. This is oddly not quite Austrian business cycle. This is really a major shock to the economy coming from governments locked down a not a male investment but a decent investment. That's why I'm hopeful. But by segues into what government might do and what government should what might happen end cap society but maybe you want to make a final comment about my my rosy forecast. David and go and record is wipe might be full of it. Well I know listen. I understand the point that you're making. I think it's a very good one and I hadn't thought about that. Particularly from a landlords point of view And I think that's a very good point that look I mean if you You know addicting. Somebody at is has. It's own headaches and costs associated with it. You have to then go out and find another good tenant and if you've had somebody who's a good tenant who's been paying their rent on time and you know the only reason they're missing their rent is because the government is quite literally forcing them to not open their doors to customers who would be coming into pay. Yeah okay it kind of makes sense that you would you would want to Bounce that you would wanNA keep them and work with them. So that's a very interesting point and I get what you're saying it's not. It's not just like a problem of investments. There's very good businesses after. Just shut down. And there's no reason to think they can't bounce back a major day or the major victim. Basically the good business has multiple either. I I want to say I want to just pass it say up and stand up for landlords as a landlord friend of mine said everybody hates hates landlord especially Jewish landlords and reading. I'm reading The New York Times today. Neil Irwin mentioned his name. He's talking about half. Oh if those landlords that those Leno's love it it just takes it for granted the landlords don't respond to you. Know what you know. The primary axiom certainly if your landlord in New York City and you're renting to a restaurant primary action is if you have a restaurant that never that has never missed a monthly rent payment. You hold onto that risks right you hold onto that client and so that's what we're holding onto of course so. I wanted to say something that again. The whole point is that there's an awful lot of individual actions on the part of solvent businesses that landlords will be taking in other states. But again I just want to put a fine point on it again. Repeat that I been in my view. This is not an Austrian a collapsed. This is an Austrian business cycle in in Operation. This is essentially a government suppression. That's bringing about a an economic downturn suppression of good investment now not amount investment because so most of these companies even the airlines by the way we could get on those grubbers but they're good investments to people still fly less than the that's what's being shut down and that's that's the key point why this is different from any other downtown but excuse me for interrupting you know. I think that's all important stuff by the way completely unrelated. I just out of curiosity I checked how much it would cost a to fly out to L. A. Right now. Sixty five bucks roundtrip round trip ticket to Los Angeles. Here's the GIO in. May I almost wanted to go to Los Angeles? I'm just like come on. Are we going to get sixty five bucks round trip to Los Angeles unbelievable deal? It's a tenth of the price that it normally yours and you are grateful agreed. You would say I'll talk. Goes to seal them. You're going to Grad that sixty five bucks and I think that's terrific. I gather you decided not to go. I decided after council from my wife I decided not to. I won't be going to. Maybe then. Those hate will pay sixty five bucks Giannis because we want a celebrity like you day on board that was I will. And this is a little bit of an aside. But I can't help myself but I've always I've always and from what you were talking about with landlords and stuff. I've always found this. Just tremendous disconnect from the way You know left leaning folks are Socialists. Or you know people like Richard Wolfe Who who you debated the way. They talk about the relationship between landlords and people who rent or employers and employees. As if it's like this you know it. Basically this is the new version of King and subject or ruler and ruled because and I just wonder how many people have had any life experience like I've rented Basically my my entire life. I've never owned. I've I've always rented and I know like for example. My my my inlaws. They own their homes. And it's I mean every time something breaks down and my. My father in law is like on down in the basement and his hands and knees. He's fixing the electricity fixing the plumbing. He's doing all this work. The part of owning a home is like a real headache. And then I sit around and I'm like hey we got a clogged drain and and my landlord has like Russian over to fix it. And you're like I don't really feel as if he's my rule or if anything it feels. It feels like more the opposite. It's the truth is it's A. It's a voluntary relationship between two people and this is all just imagined the idea that the the landlord is like this. You know evil figure who You know Like Lords his power over his helpless inherited the very fray very term and it does segue into couple of course. Obviously it goes way back. The term landlord goes back to pre pre Adam Smith and Adams by one of his big mistakes in avenue could word for land was he thought that would parasites that they wanted. That's one of the real problems with Adam Smith and it beyond that obviously the idea of Of anybody being the Lord of the land when he's renting to you clearly a misnomer. Although with that said I want to add that if you are an intrepid enough landlord to own a building that's rent stabilized or rent controlled. It does tend to attract a nasty kind of personality. I wouldn't want own a building. That's rents tablets to rent control. Because then you do it good. It's good to be nasty because then you do have to cut corners because it's it's hard to make a living from running such buildings so it does tend to attract the the worst kind that kind of landlord those kind of people and then of course obviously the more general societal problem is that is that if you're in business becoming a landlord it just doesn't look as good as if you're some kind of parapsychology professor. It doesn't impress people at your so therefore it also attracts a slightly nasty group of people all right. Let's let's take a quick second. I WanNa thank our sponsor for today's show which is bet DS. I BET DOT COM has been around for over twenty years of their top rated on business review sites. This is the place for online gambling. They're super easy to use They have live in game wagering. Great Customer Service Available. Twenty four seven three sixty five bet. 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Good abet the SL DOT COM use Promo Code P. O. T. P. One twenty when you sign up And you have yourself some fun in these troubling times all right. Let's get back into the show now. But of course with that said there are plenty of decent landlords and my wife and I have a reputation for being really nice landlords. And it sounds like you pay your a decent market rent. Although it's not even capability called a market rent because the two million units off the market due to rent stabilization and so many more units could be built but for the heavy hand of government but the point is you have a decent caps relationship with your landlord and so two are tenants on and and so that's of course important to say and it is important to stand up for landlords. We did that Dave Barry good all right. So let's transition transition back to Touched on before. And that of course is but the government response has been so far to this crisis. And maybe why don't we talk about the government's bonds and then what you would have been a more appropriate government's response? I mean you can talk about how and Kapustan this. But even given that we do have a government I think certainly from my perspective and I'm sure from years two could have been better ways to handle his like. I don't think robbing the American people to give a couple. Trillion dollars to the bank's is is an ideal solution. I don't think zero percent interest rates was a good a solution. So but I wanNA hear you. So how about I? The the actual government response What do you think of the big handouts to the big banks? And what do you think about the lowering interest rates to zero percent? Well okay those in particular other than the lowest interest rates zero percent. I think really made virtually no difference I guess would the handouts the big banks and the handouts now to at all big companies are basically a basically a only going to encourage them further to act irresponsibly. I guess somebody could force me to the wall and say well there are some banks. It did actor responsibility. And and if they're going to edit gonna not be a supported than that could cause some harm but can David Stockman twenty got that you only you accumulate. The more the more government has what's called the the the what was referred to as the Greenspan put that basically it's too technical basically the more you put a floor under things. The more the more you abrogate the capitalist system Which is essentially a profit and loss system that profits encouraged risk taking but losses encouraged prudence and and the more you prevent banks businesses and others from From having to plan for the for the risk of loss the more you do that the more you motivate these institutions to take more and more risk and to be less risk averse and to be less prudent and so that's what's referred to as the moral hazard of continuing to underwrite the bat and prudent decisions of different institutions and so that's that's why it's potentially a disastrous policy. I guess David Nine. Maybe maybe in a in a in a moment to sort of vain. Hope we'll hope that people begin to recognize this. Although with that said I I was impressed by the way a a story in the Wall Street Journal Today. Which was a very admirable round up up comedy cash on hand. the The major corporations have and and that that you know it's been pointed out. Well you know. Put up apart Murphy. Just last week. The Fed the Fed is financing liquidity. And and yet a so So that So that these companies which are cash short can say afloat. But why didn't why? Why are they so of cash in the first place now? Now now it turns out now. Even Bob admitted that will maybe not all of them abreast of cash but it turned out turns out that at that is not as bad as we necessarily think they actually is a surprising amount of cash that these corporations have on hand and that in fact the outliers. Apple Apple Actually has two hundred twenty billion dollars worth of cash enough cash. I'd to to operate at full capacity for a whole year without even without even cutting costs so the point. What I'm trying to say is that is that what we talk about? Encouraging encouraging risky behavior on the part of banks and other large corporations it turns out that they're not. They're not quite as stupid as we think that the not all of the map that way and that we have to hand it to too many of these business people in many bankers at you. Perhaps you know every not every investment bank needed to be bailed at no eight. Oh not. They're all told him until they had to take it but we set were definitely extending money to undeserving people. And and what would definitely not recognizing the point that I made earlier about insolvency versus illiquidity and that and that and that the market just like is a landlord recognize that that the Restaurant we rent to is illiquid but not insolvent that that if Boeing if Boeing blue all its money it has difficulty paying its bills or even staying afloat and and has to get this largesse. Then ask the answer. Is we'll go out into the marketplace in borrow if you have to borrow ten percent that's your problem. You know if if you have to beg it beg for it. That's your problem. Probably you can convince a lot of potential creditors that you are a acquitted. Where the I'll bet you. A solvent deserve to stay in business similar to the airlines. The airlines are getting a huge amount of largesse up and up. The here's another. Finding there was a funny tweet where somebody justifying all this bail out of the airlines and the guy said cast. I guess I guess we all want to want to use robots to get to Europe next year or overall just use bicycles go by bus and as. I think it was actually Tom who tweeted this home. Woods between I GUESS. This guy really feels that that if benefit airline company GOES BANKRUPT. Its planes plans you know. We don't realize it's obviously a this. Did this bankruptcy and bankruptcy by the way over the is a relatively benign process. You can declare bankruptcy and you don't even go out of operation but if you do operation somebody the vulture capitalists come in and buy and buy up those planes because again it's not insolvency illiquidity and but then of course if your company goes out to the marketplace the Boeing executive. Go into the walkways and beg for money then. One of the stipulations on the part of the creditors would mean yet. We've got a fire all these Yoyo so mishandled things I'm only going into the ways in which Illiquidity and insolvency are separated in terms of of a meth thousands of decisions that are made in the marketplace and and all the ways in which so-called vulture capitalists compounds and by a distressed assets and recognize those assets are valid now so this can be done far more efficaciously by the free market. Then it could possibly be done by government and then what's what's the Marshall Benefit of government. There are those who say well but somebody's going to make a mistake. Some landlord is gonNA creep and push out the restaurant yet. We all know that you're pounds on the fact that they're going to be some stupid decisions in the free market and and then we'll focus on that forgetting of course that obviously the stupidity from on high is is a blanket bail out of everybody and and indeed causing the need for more bailouts later on by encouraging irresponsibility on the part of those in charge one other one final point because a lot. Of course I've learned a lot of this but privately south at one on this one point that I've contributed to this dialogue about understanding. What happens when when you when you have crony capitalism when when you have when you privatize profits and socialize losses and causing causing these institutions to act in a foolhardy way the worst get on top we forget if you get then that bet. The casino capitalists start to run these companies. The less imprudent SORTA lesson run these companies. Because what the health? When are we shoot for the moon because we can always big government for a bailout? So that's the creeping harm that these things do and that's the reason why we don't need any of these government bailouts? It would be a time to call a halt on it even though even though I can. Anticipate the next objection. Which is that but wait. A minute. Government caused this problem. You know government causes problem. ShouldN'T GOVERNMENT COMING TO SOLVE IT? You know another words this really was. Is this really something? You'd expect the every responsible business owner and executive to expect the government would suddenly 'cause forcible shutdown of your business ought and Or that or that indeed plague would come government forces Of course this month even despite that the problem is that government tries to cure it taking resources from others is reallocating resources inefficiently and again. It is aggregating continued to advocate the principle one which capitalism operates prophets encouraged risk-taking losses encourage prudence the Prophet Emerald System. Capitalism is essential to capitalism's operating. So I showed up and coming Dave. Go ahead no well. I know I think that was great. I I appreciate every bit of that rant and I. I think you're absolutely right and I I think that the The moral hazard of bailing out all of these big companies is is a problem. It's a problem that we dealt with after the ballots. A two thousand eight and it's the problem that we're going to deal with after these bailouts and You know I agree with you. One of the things I believe Peter. Schiff was making the point on On Tom Woods show. Is that even? If you want to say that. The government caused this problem or that it was. There was no real way to foresee that a virus was gonNA come in recall this havoc. There still is a responsibility on businesses. Who were not the planning for the emergency? That didn't have any plan for what they would do in an emergency situation But anyway I wanted to ask you about another propose another proposal. That's been floating around. Which is the idea of this emergency? Ub I so just cutting checks To Americans I forget exactly how they were going to do something. Like twelve hundred dollars a month under seven under seventy five thousand and then some in the package game. Yeah all right so so So what now now? A lot of times You Know Austrian. Economists had been You know probably more concerned with inflation than any other group of of Communists and One of the things that is pointed out that is a fair You know point Is that a lot of times when there was all this money like in the quantitative easing rounds and stuff like that when there's all this money but it goes to banks and it's not all injected into the economy and a lot of it gets held in reserves in the banks. Don't actually you know loaned out. And therefore you don't you're not gonNA have an inflationary effect if the money isn't injected into the at least on price inflation but this is different. This is this is just good old school dropping money out of helicopters. Were giving everybody a check. So what do you think about this proposal and doesn't have to result in in obvious? Price inflation well I okay. The short answer is probably not only because the IT. It's a twelve hundred bucks and it's ridiculous and And I it's ridiculous even though of course I do. I don't want anybody to be destitute from all these layoffs A. We could talk about what could happen in a free market of what could happen more rationally. But I'm I'm apparently GonNa get twelve hundred bucks in the mail. Outward cost to the proposal by the way Elba I. I don't want to lose sight of the fact that that most importantly Nancy Pelosi you know that little item twenty five million the the Tusch. It's crucially adult. Package includes twenty five million for the Kennedy Center in in Washington. Dc This this reminds me by the way the feeding frenzy after nine eleven. I know a guy who quit the Senate in disgust because Hillary Clinton got some ninety million for four Ticonderoga. Just just incredible pork fest after nine. Eleven as as guy said procedures. I'm sure I'll hide is trembling with fear over the subsidy to know put but so clear billion just discussing from word but getting a question. I could talk to to begin with if if you just the effects of this. It's it's it's a joke. Of course a twelve hundred dollar check to people but it's it is not not going to be a whole lot. I what do you think I'm GonNa do with twelve hundred bucks. I I'm just GONNA I'm just GonNa suck it away somewhere. My market consumer spending habits are not going to change the. Do you think that? Do you think that there's going to be a rush on on on many items because people are getting a whole lot of people getting twelve hundred dollar checks in the mail? I mean well I think that a large percentage of people who get it will spend it. I mean I that that would be my guess. Well the will or ask yourself this question. I mean I. Was You know that this has happened before? Bush sent a George W Bush said that it was two three hundred dollar checks. You you you you you know that that that as luck would have it for for George Bush and his Keynesian crowd. Every time you did this in the calendar quarter or month or two those must be affected consumer spending actually fell and so and so and so you know what my real questions yet. They're going to spend it. But but but is this going to bring a bat in the increase in consumer spending I. Are we going to see increasing spending from it? Well the last two reasons to believe that we won't just just any kind of increase because because a lot of a number of people won't spend it or did they will spend it at the bottom. They will spend it the people who really losing their jobs and can use it spend it out of necessity a obviously if we're GONNA continue into the current circumstances. There's not a whole lot to spend it on unless of course it's at sixty five dollar flight to to La and their two. That's the absurdity. Which would we're looking at a price collapse and here. We are potentially considering the possibility of price inflation and and so the point is that that it never. It never seems to have much of an effect. Seventy didn't goose up consumer spending the last time it happened and we can unravel the reasons. Why the part of the reason why is of course that went to everybody? This is going to be phased out. I guess it's a small percentage of the population is not going to get it. It's going to be phased out at one. Hundred Ninety six thousand four joined for for couples jointly and something like ninety six thousand. So you're GONNA get a few bucks Dave and twelve hundred bucks is GonNa come to you because I know I know you not exactly in the league with Tom. Woods in terms of what you earn shifted. Exactly certainly certainly know working libertarian. Tom Woods who who what he makes but God bless him day we we don't we don't regret them a nickle. He deserves more deserve not only to earn ten times more than you earn day in a single year but twelve times pretty much. A what are you going to do the my my point. Kennedy said it's a one. It's a one shot deal and and it's it's happening at a time that that prices are plummeting as you know. Last I checked the oil prices. was collapsed. Twenty five bucks and part of the reason why the allies go charge you so little for the for the flight is that the cost of jet fuel has plummeted so again i. Maybe I'm talking around this issue but I'm only saying that if you look at if you just think about twelve hundred dollars going going to the pockets of people who are have lost their jobs who naturally are a little bit Concerned about the financial wellbeing. Are they going to blow it all on something rather particularly at a time when a lot of trump difficulty blowing money on anything or even going out? And then secondly are they're going to blow a lot of it were indeed. When people are scared they tend to squirrel. Money away. The the idea by the way that people don't like to say this doesn't make a whole lot especially when they're scared as people are these days that's why I do Doubt very much that we will be even any kind of perceived influence on prices from this if we do see any kind of influence. It'll probably be berry slight. Okay well that that That that makes sense to me. It makes me feel a little bit better. So let me ask you because we're coming up at the at the end of the time here. So let me ask you what you address before. Free Market Solution To this problem what what would be a the free market Kirk Now. Completely free market we. You know you must be familiar with the fact that the Center for Disease Control and and the FDA would basically spreading nonsense about about face masks. They they were holding up The the use of home kits for for protesting the virus. I mean they were part of the problem. Not Part of the solution a pick. Pick up on a well-worn phrase and we probably maybe. I could trace the story this way that that that no doubt when the first word came from China with nothing to turn China into a free mortgage China was suppressing the information but by January. The news coming out. I hazard the guests that that in a free market. Where the virtue is that. Yeah you have latitudes but when you have tens of thousands of people who are able to make decisions that make entrepreneurial bets then you have all kinds of things happening you probably would have had a number speculators an entrepreneur's being able to see the problem. Recognize that face mass. Not only protect others protect you a ventilators could be used and taking a flyer and turning out a lot of these things off chance in the absence of rules against price-gouging that these things would be available and so we might. We might have had and certainly over the last few weeks as Bob Murphy. Point point the one thing the free market is so good at is mass producing items like face massive ventilated and and and then selling them in test kits and all kinds of other stuff. Not all of it would have been good. Some of it would have been fortunate but but there would have been a huge opportunity. Preceived by people at the Martin who could have told Jeff Bezos to who would have known except for Jeff Bezos that he could go from a guy of limited means committed one of the richest men in the world. He saw something he barely went for. There's always people who do so. I'm saying that there's a fair likelihood that that people would have recognized that these things should be available. I'm mentioning that quite because especially stressing that point because it is indeed true that that We have a tragic situation going on we. It does appear that facemasks help and a lot of people. Don't use them go with but if you were marketing facemask. You're selling them. You would have scary advertisements a Dave Smith and part of the problem running an ad for for for Fred's face masks. Don't take this guy and and and and certainly is fair. Take a special interest in what's going on. In Japan the fact the fact as you perhaps know that they are taking very few precautions. People are still crammed on the commuter trains but not social distancing and as I keep trying to stress to those naysayers yet. They don't know how many people have been afflicted by the virus but but the report is on the ground are saying that that the hospitals are simply not flooded with sick people. It's not an and Japan was hit earlier than the US because they geographically much closer to shut it so I mentioned that only because facemask seem to matter ventilator seem to matter they would have been mass produced they would have been coming would have been no constraints on that and then beyond that as as a friend of mine said as well. We'll you're talking about the great suppression but but bearing my that. They would have been a lot of self suppression. As of course would be. There would be a lot of a lot of people like me. Who WOULD BE SELF KARN? -taining at the age of seventy five bud would have been a lot of a lot of restaurants and businesses who could have sorted out. Let's say this no constraint. No concern then. Then you're there was the Budwood local movie theaters. Were going and of course there was originally as you may record an edict that you're gonNA have capacity. The local movie theaters might have been able to survive first of all if they brought up pace mess and they distributed at the door or maybe distributed a gloves and made sure that only every third seat were filled on the P. Now my point is that all of the ways in which this is cope and ways in which individuals can cope would have been occurring. I even if the virus the virus would come it would invade us but definitely the high Iraqi and bottom up solutions would have been much better. We would probably not be having massive layoffs. We wouldn't feed be having a situation in which by my my stepson. For example. He's he's a software guy operating in Silicon Valley and they can operate remotely so their office was shut down and of course that's what would happen on the part of many businesses many services but those businesses and those restaurants and those movie theaters and other groups would've been would've might've found ways to to limit risk and and and and make it possible for for people to attend and retained the jobs of so many of their people on and then of course obviously as I say the the fact is that it's prudent. It's it's it's it's it's in your self interest is a landlord not to put a squeeze on a restaurant that's hurting up to work it out because again making the distinction between insolvency liquidity. And so I think that But but I guess what what's what's looming before. Us looming question is but then you always have ten percent of the of the country are the populations that are always a bunch of Jerks risk-taking jerks who don't mind breathing. Well there would be a reaction to them certainly if we had any kind of replication of of a minister and captured society would of course be an awful lot of quarantining in the sense that whole communities and whole groups would would be close to these people and people who did pro- probably if you are operating a business in Times Square you would probably mandate that anybody who comes into your Biz. Patronizes has got to put on gloves and has got put on a face mask you. You would probably probably have a couple of people who would forcibly eject a few dufuses who don't obey that ruling so that you could stay in business so it. I'm PAT pressure could go into further detail in broad brushstrokes up. The I believe that even the ten percent who were jerks work at the point has been make young people that are take a lot of risks. Young people are going to know that that their chances of dying from it or very limited they WANNA have fun. There was a young lady said. Look I'm going down. I don't care if I catch the virus. I'm going down to Florida and have some goddamned fun event so so indeed. Obviously obviously that would mean that that older people like me have just got to stay away from these people were we. We might be able to. We might have to impose politically incorrect rules. That say look blanket if you're under the age of twenty five we're GonNa brand you as a as a fool unless amount unless you could certify this. You're not a doofus so again we would be defending ourselves against this. This ten percent element which loom so large. Because that's the usual argument I've been hearing lately for people. Were put this case to. What about the ten percent Dervis fat again? We have lots of ways in which we would businesses and individuals in all people like me would be defending ourselves against the ten percent stature with that said certainly in if even in the free market there would be a severe economic slow down a severe economic contraction from the virus. But it wouldn't be nearly as severe nearly as painful as as what we're experiencing today. And on top of that one add the research on on how much morbidity and mortality increases with with a fifteen to twenty percent unemployment rate is a little bit debated but certainly We are potentially sacrificing lives and sacrificing economic wellbeing by going with with a lockdown with the government is imposing. Yeah it seems. It seems no question to me. That people are not They're they're not giving enough thought to what the human cost of all of these shutdowns Could be and we'RE GONNA WE'RE GONNA end up finding it out. I do I have to. I have to wrap up here. Another show That I'm reporting throw Donald Trump's Easter parade. He wants his Oakland by Eastern. Okay well we'll see we'll see we'll see about that. Pat Passover comes too soon passovers so we can't know sater's guys and you have to have virtual sater's virtual sater's always find a way to screw over the Jews don't gene gene I I very much appreciate you taking the time and we'll we'll do another remote one coming up soon if we can't if we can't get back the city you you and your wife stay safe. Enjoy the the time together in in your In Your Beautiful Loft Department and Be Thank you for being so kind to your Your subjects who you rule over the Lord of the land. That's right all right. Gee and talk to him.

Anna David Stockman Scott Horton Dave Barry Bob Murphy Vince Sarah Watches Tom Woods William Kristol New York City Congressional Budget Office Andrew Cuomo Soho Washington Joe Biden baseball Richard Wolfe Jean Epstein
A Gaff Or A Lie

Part of the Problem

1:35:54 hr | 1 year ago

A Gaff Or A Lie

"Hey guys today. Show is brought to you by anadarko coffee. Our newest newest sponsor who i am just so thrilled to have on board anarchy coffee is the fiercely independently owned and operated grassroots coffee company for for people who love liberty. I've been drinking coffee every morning. It's delicious. It's great. I went with the rothbart roast for obvious reasons. It's delicious coffee snob and i'm telling you this stuff is really good. Go check out some and of course obviously they make a rothbart roast. It's called anarchy coffee. These are friends. Let's just just put it that way. They're friends of ours. All right. Anarchy coffee has a wide range of brews including six bean espresso hazelnut extra caffeine the maecenas mix they they have a measles mix people. You have to check out this. You have to go buy some just for that. If you have a rothbart roast and a meese mix you need to purchase this coffee anyway you can go get it at anadarko coffee dot com. Their coffee is one hundred percent ethically sourced organically farmed and rose to order <hes> means the freshest coffee offer. You're ever gonna taste the day you order enter. Coffee is the day it gets roasted packed and shipped highly recommend. This stuff also free shipping on all orders over ninety nine dollars and a special deal for part of the problem listeners for the problem children. They're offering ten percent off your first order. If you use the promo code problem ten so so use the promo code problem tan you get ten percent off your first order one more time. That's anarchy coffee. Dot com get the energy you need to truly experience liberty and with my promo code problem tan you get ten percent off your first order all right. Let's start today's show. We need to roll back the state. We start on all of of our own citizens. Our prisons are flooded with non violent drug offenders. If you wanna know who america's next enemy is looking at funding right now other things will one of these problems are the government doing way too big at work. What's every body. Thank you for listening. Welcome to a brand new episode of part of the problem. I am dave smith breath bless you as you already know the most consistent motherfucker you know and i'm joined as always by the fire the king of the cox rob bernstein stain good to have you back sir what's up it was a i missed you on wednesday. You didn't renew my contract. I was some bullshit. You really make me stuff my game with chris. Just slide right into that slot like there was nothing it was. It was seamless transition. There was a player lockout here at the problem and we've reached an agreement a temporary nonbinding agreement agreement anyway. It's good. It's good to have you back here so i wanted to let people know if anyone didn't see news yes big big news that <hes> so basically here. I'll tell you what happened all right so my soho forum debate is sold out <hes> pity ticket knicks kanka ticket ticket tax me or number. That's the only way you're getting in at this point short of that. You're not getting short of that. You might have to. I don't know buy one from a scalper probably two three thousand bucks ticket. I don't know so forms never seen anything like it. It's definitely not because of knicks sarwari. It's all made it's my starpower okay. I brought that to the table. I so hope forum to a whole new level by stepping into the debate right now. I know what you're thinking dave. Don't you perform every single soho form shore but i'm still taking credit because you usually just they're. They're warming thing up now. The featured act now what exactly and it was sanctioned by the king cox. I'm sure that helped usually it's not sanctioned. I mean you are the different variable so maybe you get some credit but the part of the problem team look. Here's what happened. Okay andrew yang never do business business with chinese okay. Andrew young was supposed to <hes> debate at the soho forum and he pulled out the only person in the history. He's the only the guy in the history of the soho form who's ever pulled up universal income guys but yet you be young pull that thinks he's too big for everyone. Oh mr mom at one percent too big for the soho for him so he pulled that it's now me out of respect and loyalty to the head of the new york family of libertarianism mm-hmm gene obscene the great jean epstein as you know what i'll throw my star power behind debate will get you back on the but will more tickets than that yang jerk off ever could sold anyway so i go in there. It's a big success biggest thing that's ever happened in the soho form and then these bastards bastards at the soho form he kind of let you have your mood and let let me just have my moment a couple weeks before my debate they book and they just didn't even need to be announced. It's not till next. May i think but they booked something that i gotta say. It made me tinguely inside like a schoolgirl when i heard that they have gotten scott horton the great the most incredible human being i know scott horton is coming out to new york city and he'll be debating regime change u._s. Foreign foreign policy supporting regime change. I forget the exact revolution resolution against william kristol somehow they actually billy crystal crystal bill chris. It's gonna sing dance. He's twenty says l. jokes. I don't know that's incredible. He knew so much about what it was all so it was like behind on the scenes of analyze this yeah bill kristol one the one of if not the biggest living neo-con <hes> he is going to come in and debate scott scott horton holy shit. I can't wait for this so i would say if you're in the new york city area. Go get if you're not in the new york. City area plan a goddamn trip but i would get tickets now because that motherfucker is going to sell out in record time yeah there. Is that dude yeah best mouth guy yeah bass mouth yeah for <hes> i it's. I can't wait to <hes> to see this one. I'm very surprised that bill kristol agreed to do it to be honest but he's he's in for it so this is gonna be. This is going to be a lot of fun. I spoke to both jean and scott on the phone yesterday day and it's this is going to be a fun one camp bill kristol due to wealthy guy. You know i don't know i really don't know i know he was involved gulbuddin founding the project for a new america and he's he's like involved in a whole bunch of think tank ary and bullshit like that so i'm sure he's made his money. I'm sure he's made some good money. I hope he's made good money because you know he's going to go to hell and hells yeah so it's yeah you hope hopefully enjoy this life. What would you say his co. Counts at well. I mean personally. He hasn't killed anybody but if the policies that he's supported are probably in the millions you know and if you go like lives destroyed if if you don't just go pure direct death but like lives destroyed indirect death things like that roof ooh fits getting rough. It's getting rough for roll billy crystal but anyway i can't wait for that can't wait for that <hes> but they all even if you can't make it to them live. They put them all out. They put out on reasons podcasts. I think reason put the videos out on their youtube channel. I'm not sure exactly but it's gonna be. It's gonna be a hell of a time so i can't wait for that. One all right so you know something. I wanted to talk about that. I mentioned the other day. <hes> briefly when i on wednesdays podcast was dave chapels comedy special and i hadn't watch the whole thing on wednesday. I watched like the first twenty minutes or so but i finished it so i wanted to talk about it briefly and and <hes> the special itself and a little bit on on the response to it <hes> so i i said last time i said after watching about twenty minutes of it and i still feel that way after finishing it it was it was excellent on really really just a really great comedy special and i've always been a huge huge dude chapelle fan. I think he's debatably the most talented comedian who's ever lived. I mean he's just just incredible and <hes> his netflix special. The latest one was just. I was fucking excellent man. Just excellent really really funny really it's i dunno. I used to love stand up comedy comedy so much i was like such a stand up comedy fan as a kid and a- that's true i think for a lot of people who become stand up comedians like you were kind kind of into it. I'd imagine but once you're in it for a while it does it's almost like you kind of have to sacrifice that a little little bit like you can't be as much of a fan of comedy once you've been through the grind and it's like i don't know there's something about well part of it. Is that like. I think a big part of a you know a lot of tricks well. That's that's a huge part of it so you got so when you see something really brilliant. It does catch like right. That's why i love this but you're very selective about what you actually can even appreciate. It's like i almost it's not a direct comparison but it's almost like becoming magician and it's like well. How much can you really enjoy a magician. You know you definitely can't enjoy the same wages like some nine year. Old kid can look into magician and be like oh my god. How did he do that really well well. This is how we did it now. You might still see some really good sleight of hand or something. It'd be like wow he executed that well but it's not exactly the same as when you're just in this like wonder like like like phase of like oh my god. How the fuck did he do that because now you're like well. I know exactly what he did there and i th there's there's something to that aspect of it so it's like it you see see through the there's there's a lot of smoke and mirrors and comedy in how you present something and there's also to laugh and then there's also the sitting there with zen like fuck. I got a similar joke did and then no one hundred percent. How's he getting away with this bullshit or you don't know it it almost like th and that's part of it too like that. That aspect makes it hard and then you also just can't watch comedy in the same way. I try to not watch too much standup comedy 'cause you just you nervous about absorbing instrument yeah. We can't watch too much like you like. I'm that way with a tell. I can't tell that much. I'll watch them like once or twice a ear because he's just so infectious. You start doing him any like i don't want. I can't do that so i'm like. I just so hard. Go relieve you just like feel yourself wanting to it's a weird thing. It's the worst feeling when you're onstage and you do something and you're like. I just did that guy yeah and apart and you're like i just did data thing yeah. No it happens. Sometimes it just like kind of comes out of you and it's not good and i have that with a few different people whereas like i know i can't watch them too much and you just don't wanna watch like and also it's i <hes>. I don't know it becomes a thing where it's also just like. Just you see enough comedy. You're out working. You're doing this that you see enough of it. You're i just can't really do any more of this so it's there was something really nice about watching chapelle special or there were there were maybe five or six moments where i really laughed out. Loud like really hard laughs out loud and that that was a nice feeling. There's really very few comedy specials that get that out of me when you do watch comedy in the limited time when i do watch watch standup. I do a lot of <hes> which i'm sure you can relate to it. There's something about being stand up or doing it for years where it just starts to almost desensitize you so you start doing like it's funny. That's really really funny but you're not actually like laughing and having a moment you're you're just going okay. That's funny. That's really fucked. That's really funny. You know and that's like what the fuck is. There's no human being supposed to react to a very funny joke. You're not supposed to go. I it's funny. That's terrible. You're supposed to gut ladder because you're glad that they got that joke. Fuck that was a good one. I don't even know that's part of it and part of it's just like you're just kind of desensitized to the whole structure of the format and how it's presented in everything that you just go. Yes excellent well done. You know it's almost like i you know i see like i don't know but if you're like a like a gymnast coach not one of the kitty fuckers coach and you were and you're just like it's like yes excellent form very well but you're not like unbelievable. You know i've seen this a million times so it's like yeah excellent. That was very good. I'm recognizing but you don't have that same bush appel fuck and made me laugh and i appreciate it and i i. I thought he did too specials. What was it like a year ago. Maybe a little more than a year ago. He did too and i thought this one was substantially better than the last two. I still think for my money for what it's worth is the best comedy especially i've ever seen killing them softly. It's probably top five best comedy especially. He's got two of the best best ever by the way most people disagree with me on that in killing himself was the better of the two. I'm for what it's worth guy but anyway but he's he's incredible and i really enjoy special so there was that but i'll tell you even before i saw the special i saw some of the you know the <hes> responses to it and you know i don't even know what to say. <hes> you know vice wrote a piece on how you should skip the chapelle show. I think the young turks did a thing on how it's not punching up. It's punching down. There were several different kind of left wing news. You know the woke doc patrol got on them. I don't know what to say about that. I i feel almost hesitant to even add my two cents to it. It's like i don't know it's really really dumb. We all know it's fucking retarded <hes> yeah i. I don't know it's not like it. It'd be one thing for me ain't if if you're like a twenty year old kid or something like that and this is kind of the only adult world you've ever known but if you're in your mid thirties like i am. It's like i don't know am i supposed to pretend that this was even like super like edgy or something like that. It's like it was a comedy specialist. What you expect an edgy comedian to do. I mean it was edgy but it's like. I don't know what you know like. I'm a nineties kid. It was like chris rock and like fucking chapelle and guys like that this is is what they do they focus and push boundaries and they go balls out and it's like. I don't know it's not an even then. It wasn't really like oh my god. I can't believe they're doing this. I mean prior and carlin. Were fucking. We're working for decades before them. This is what edgy stand up comedy is. It's like none of this has changed changed. The fucking culture changed so i'm not pretending it's like oh my god. I can't believe he made a joke about transgender. People like you know whatever of course he did a hopefully we can an expose the p._c._p. For being the loud minority that they are that's what you need you need. You need like more of these p._c. And woke people to continue losing money with content that sucks and then people that actually just step forward and go all we're going to put the funny content on and then to have the funny content make a lot of money that people finally only turn around and go. Oh the market doesn't really agree with this p._c. Bullshit and it sucks well. I agree with that. <hes> which is what's happening more or less so by the way the <hes> the fucking babylon beach really fucking funny you ever read the onion like okay like satirical news not fake news in the trump sense but they had an article articles really funny. If you want to read it short but the title was liberals clarify they only want black voices to be heard when they're saying liberal things crazy great arctic a great title but then i got to say there was something that kind of bugged me about the response so the overwhelming response from the the comedy community. If you want to feel super gay even saying that term the only response the overwhelming response from the comedy community was like defending chapelle and being like oh. This is crazy that these articles are like writing these things about him and it's like okay. I guess it commun- a little bit of a weird. Put me in a weird spot because i'm i'm technically it's like you're right and this is like the thing to say i do agree with you but there was something about it that just kind of left me with a bad taste in my mouth and you know i really am. I'm very removed from the comedy community. I'm not like one of their people. I don't really i have a few friends in comedy but i don't really like hang out with comedians the way i used to and when i first started comedy they might early twenties and i thought it was just so cool. I thought the scene was just so awesome. I admired so many of the people who are in it but it was a different it really was a different world like it was so so different the comedy world like the guys that we were all looking up to where like dave attell patrice o'neal and greg giraldo and <hes> you know like fucking dipaolo oh and all these guys and basically they they all either died or became outcasts or their david. Thomas still doing great things but you know nope then it. It became like this whole new thing and i don't know just not my deal even when i do spots. I don't really like hang after partly. I got a kid a married. It's like i'm not really hanging as much. I like do a spot and go home and you know i do. Skunks and stuff and jay and lewis are my brothers and like you're my brother but i don't really like hang with that many comedians anymore and there was something about it that just really bothered me where it was kind of like and i know lewis made this point <hes> once before think it might have been on schedule so maybe it was just me and him. We're talking. I don't exactly remember but he was like you know. Sometimes you'll see a lot of the kind of left leaning comedians <hes> all decide that you know this woke p._c. Culture is going too far but it always seems to be when they're circling circling around one of their own like it's always when someone on the left gets in trouble through like aw come on man. We're going after him now and it's it's kind of like there's there's something so chapelle. It's like it's a hilarious special. I got nothing to say about that but it's not as if shipped pels like you know he's pissing off the wo- crab anything pisses off. I mean unless you're literally doing fucking hannah gatsby comedy. You're gonna piss off that fucking crowd or you're just doing comedy. That's has nothing to do with anything like any issues gaffe again or whatever they won't have a problem with him but there so yeah of course if you're doing any type of edgy balls out comedy. It's like like you're gonna piss them off but chapelle is like a very like pro black kind of like call out white people people that's his thing. It's always been whatever i don't fuck in. Give a fuck. I don't look for my comedians to be my fucking like influence or be funny. That's your fucking can job now. I understand i happened to be the rare breed but <hes> the you know it's like certain so you're circling around him but i just saw all these people kind of defending dave chapelle and it's like look dave chapelle to some degree was getting you know he was getting some heat. I mean look vice. Magazine isn't some fucking blog ugly. That's a i mean it is but it's it's a big one and you know the other news sources. There were big news sources that were critical of him so i understand defending them but it just kind of look. I guess what happened was. I'm not going to name them but there were a couple of comedians name on account <hes> i'll tell you later. There were a couple of comedians who <hes> who i saw who were defending dave chapelle who i also saw were shitting on nick dipaolo after his last special and it's like to me that's the fucking test not like if you'll defend somebody whose views you agree with from like the woke p._c. Crowd it's a veal defend someone whose views you don't agree with from that crowd and be like hey. Hey you know what that guy's got a right to make his jokes to it. It can't just be because really if you only defend people who have your views making jokes. You're basically just as bad. That is the woke people. You're like yeah you guys go eat the opposition but don't eat my side of it and it's like fuck you then now and in addition one of the two people who i saw who are critical of of nick dipaolo who were defending dave chapelle a lot of other people were just silent about that shit nine. Just wonder wonder it's like how many of you guys like defended nick apollo. How many guys defended owen benjamin. These are people who are actually threatened by this fucking like actually being like oh. You're you're losing gigs. You're losing things. Nick dipaolo was physically attacked. Owen can't perform and like half the places. He used to feel however you feel about their views. They're both funny. Comics man like go watch the fucking standard. Those are funny fucking comics. I know funny. You can't tell me they're not funny. Comedian greats yeah yeah funniest fuck to the grates yeah. No i mean i completely agree. No i mean i've watched doing our owns fucking strong comic man. He's got really really funny. Shut excellent comedian <hes> and one of the best in the world. I gotta watch more stuff. The only thing i really watched that video you send me where he was trying in an hour and one week and that's not what was scary about that was all that shit was solid like most of those bits would be a in my act it. I'm just saying it's like that's. It was funny even though it was all well e._n._c. Work give me one week but one of the cool things about that movie was that it was like him. It was the kind of <hes> the word i'm looking for the vulnerability of him being like well. I'm going to show you failing with new material like i'm gonna show you me tailing with the joke i came up with yesterday and trying to put an hour together in what is a ridiculously short amount of time but i mean go watch owen a headline set i mean talk and strong comic <hes> and and his turnover was like incredibly fast but yeah that that piece ps sixty sixty minutes and sixty days. There's a lot of funny even great like it was just excellent the way it was done like you really got a sense of he and his wife and just is great <hes> and of course like a goat like he's a king of the comedy world <hes> but i i just feel like you know those guys were really like nick. Dipaolo was physically assaulted. Owen is like banned from like it like so many venues at this point and i don't see any of these people being like hey man who cares if i agree with them politically like why can't you just say what i'm saying about chapelle right now. I don't give a fuck if i agree with them politically. I'm certain certainly don't quite certain media. Pels politics do not lie christian conservatives. He's moslem war. We're going to be fighting. Each other. Probably born in kenya hits the fan dan but the point is it doesn't matter it was a hilarious comedy special and when we when we fight in the civil war we fight in the civil war but for now. We're not there yeah but it's like. I don't get where it's like. If i can say whatever fuck you guys he's right to be funny and who cares who cares if i agree with him on his central point in in a thing like it's either funnier. It's not funny and it is funny. It's probably making somewhat of a good point because that's usually usually a really funny joke especially in the style of chapelle but just in general general usually humor is somewhat attached to something resembling a valid point it doesn't that doesn't mean it's literal but it's like oh you're getting getting. It's something that's why we're laughing because we're like you know. That's why when people laugh at a comedy club. You'll quite often hear people go ha ha. That's so true like like that's a line that comes out of many people's faces as they're laughing at a stand up comedian because there's something about a truth particularly uncomfortable truth particularly an absurd served truth that really draws out ha ha from people. It's a very weird thing but anyway but those guys kind of needed needed. You know what i mean. People like stand up for him and back them up and chapelle doesn't really you know getting paid tens of millions of dollars to do these special on net afflicts. He's fine. You know fucking vice can write their article about him. No one gives a shit. He's chapelle. He's knighted and he'll be fine forever. So it's kind of like it. Just seems to me like i guess one of the things that kind of turned me off about the world of of stand up comedy was so many comedians just kind of you know the virtue signaling and the taking the easiest stance when it's the most convenient and i just saw i just to me i never saw that as the role of the comedian the role of the comedian the into me was always to like it's like <hes> to make fun of everything and then to you know if you're going to take a stance take the ballsy stance that's to me. That's that's what it's all about but whatever anyways really great they were just they have it on in in the other room. I'm right now at night. I was watching a few minutes of before it really really funny. Shipman really really good highly recommend it. Go watch dave spells special. Nets lexi already habit or you have your mom's. There's something like that. It's time to get twelve people in your family. Have it yeah we have a networked enough to get an effluence password from the guy who doesn't leave his house. Get out there a little bit yeah really l._a. Yeah that's the only take three friends to get to an f._o._x. Password you're allowed to get like seven people on that thing. You should be able to get on kevin bacon netflix. That's that's how easy it is to have. A fucking net flicks password. You have to know someone who knows some homeless. People should have a net flicks password. If you live in a i see them when they're clicked into those public booths. Thank god thank you fucking bloomberg or de blasio whoever the fuck is responsible for those fucking homeless shelters on every corner. If you don't know what we're we're talking about a new york city. They have little fucking like charging stations unlike every other corner and they just became homeless dens after about a week. There's probably like forty eight hours. Those were like actual functioning new yorkers. We're like oh. This is very convenient and then fucking rent right to the homeless people joking off. It's brutal. You have a greater homeless dude ordering pizza delivery to just 'cause you know you could just walk in or the pizza anyway. Hey i'm at four twelve seventh avenue. Yeah well outside for twelve seventh avenue. Bring me a pizza. I know homeless like jokes are little low but there's there's this dude on my street. I just feel bad from an a story but he's got like this giant pushcart of stuff and it's like if you just gave up your stuff you know free you could be. You can go anywhere do anything yeah. I mean that's what yeah because you want stuff stuff. People covet stuff. You know that that is become a security guard. You're so good at just sitting down all day in gardening stuff you have it. You know it's like there's something about that right like ownership gold inside of those cases no but i think it's even like i. I think in prison if you're homeless wherever you are you kind of want before my my possessions. There's something about plastic fork yeah no. I mean really though i think i you know i think there's something very like wired in us to want to acquire things and since resources are scarce and we want to avoid conflict. We need private property rights. I is let's take a quick second and thank our sponsor today. Show which is blue you can grab some over at blue shoe dot com. If you like sex you're gonna like blue. Blue offers men a performance enhancement for the bedroom at blue dot com. 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When you use the promo code problem you just pay five dollars shipping but the first order is is free so go to baluchi dot com. That's b. l. u. E. chew dot com. Use the promo code problem and get your first order for freight all right. Let's get back into michelle okay so let's get into some shit pretty big story pretty big story that came out that caught my eye. I'm sure caught a lot of yours. Ours is well if you if you pay attention to the news at all and you listen to this program the inspector general of the department of justice <hes> issued a report a pretty scathing devastating <hes> <hes> condemnation of james komi former f._b._i. Director it was really <hes> it was interesting to see and i gotta say i told you so there you go. I mean you know. I hate to tell you say i told you so but it feels really good when you say so. Maybe i don't hate to say but this was the i've been telling you guys for years now for years now and i and i just this was so easy to fucking call so easy to call so so what happened more or less was that when donald trump the first meeting young between then f._b._i. Director james comey and donald trump happened in january two thousand seventeen and i think we're january sixth. If i'm not mistaken so it's right before trump is sworn in so he is the president elect at this point. He hasn't been sworn in yet but he's won the election election. He's going to be the president and a couple of weeks so james colman and by the way that just just delicious irony in the james james comey who really i mean he was a national figure but really became somebody who everyone knows when he came out and said <hes> hillary clinton you know basically did <hes> you know did violate the law but we're not going to prosecute or more or less is what he said. <hes> i mean he didn't say it in those words but he explained what she did which is clearly a violation of the statute and then said we're not going to prosecute her and more or less what happens to him just now. They're like like oh yeah. He did leak classified information but basically on a technicality he <hes> he's not going to be charged for anything because the information that he leaked wasn't made it classified till shortly after he leaked it so at the time he wasn't leaking classified information but it's like it's just whatever anyway there's something pretty funny about that. That is just that's how james clapper james comey burst onto the scene and now this is. How he's you know his his latest thing so anyway so james comey this is what's known as that and then it has been known for a long time. Is that james comey. As first time he meets donald trump. He presents him with the infamous steele dossier or at least tells him about it. Maybe he didn't present to him but he he lets them know about the steel bus the eh the what we know now you know from that whole carter page <hes> memo that was declassified the what the f._b._i. Was referring you too as the salacious and unverified document now since that carter page memo was released. We've actually learned a lot more because we've you've had congressional hearings. We've had the muller report. We've had all of this stuff so we know now not only that it's unverified but that straight up there's huge parts of it that are false and things that would be very very easy like right away. This is why this is one of the whole trump. Russia hoax was so easy to call and i don't feel like i deserve a lot of credit or you deserve a lot of credit for getting this right because this was obvious like that when they say that <hes> michael cohen went to prague to meet with a russian lawyers to work out the deal or right. This is what was alleged in the in the steele dossier so trump is sending his right hand man to prague to meet with russians to work out the fucking the the collusion right like to work out the fucking. They've got dirt on donald trump. Okay we'll give you this. If you're quiet about the fuck hookers that donald trump's peeing on or getting peed on or whatever whatever so just you don't you don't need to be an expert almost sometimes sometimes. I feel like they use intentionally like the facade out of expertise so you feel like well. I don't know i'm not an expert but just think it through unlike anyone if you have an i._q. Over ninety you can follow along with this okay. What would your question be if we're going to get down to the bottom of figuring out if that's true here's the thing did michael go to prague at that time we can and find that out right guys got a passport track record. This didn't happen in eighteen fifty. There's records of these things. We'll guess what he didn't. He didn't go to right there. It now falls apart right right away when they go in the steele dossier there. Are these dates where donald trump was in russia. It's like oh. Let's just check if he was in russia during that time forget what their hookers were peeing on we. We don't even need to get that far was here in russia. You think nobody's keeping track of win. Americans go to russia and comeback of course they are but they never even get into that because they know that will just disprove the whole thing but anyway so the first time that the f._b._i. Director meets with the president-elect. He's like mike. Hey we got this fucking should on you now. What i said from the very beginning was that this was obvious if you know anything about the history of the f._b._i. Just go watch you. Don't we need read up on it. Go watch the fucking j. Edgar hoover movie was the one with leonardo dicaprio the fucking edgar. I think it's called. Go watch that movie watch anything about j. edgar hoover you already know what this was. That's what it was so easy to call. This is obvious this was a fucking blackmail akmal. This was the head of the f._b._i. Going look. We got this fucking dirt on you. What do you want to do just see you know we fucking got this on you. You're now compromised compromised by the deep state like we have this fucking like it was all about fucking working over the new guy who's coming in this is how it always works jagger hoover when he first met with bobby kennedy showed bobby kennedy pictures of <hes> jack kennedy with like all his side pieces prom hair all hot so you know yeah but he's still a wife had a hot wife. He's got a fucking so and also by you know back then as a different time <hes> cheat all you want. We'll know you could but it couldn't be known because that would be more like you know. It was more like the music catholic like the you're not supposed to be doing that shit so but you know it's just kind of like you know and then it's like like oh look. We have all this dirt on you but don't worry about it. We'll keep it you know. I got it safeguarded and here's here's your copy but i got another kennedy yeah now bobby j._f._k. He had obvious who ended up in the senate right. No that's ted okay right bobby. Who's who's wounded up just like ted also okay. Bobby ended up just like his brother j._f._k. Shut dead okay. Yes someone like them. Maybe the coast osa lady was like. I know what you did last summer well no. He's not the one who cheated listen. You got to take on the ghost of the lady. That killed in a lake case is still open. Maybe she did it. I'm i'm single rob. Get your ten liam nason movie. No none of this is that way although it could have been ghosts of kennedy's fucking hookers much much house back in time they do that a lot of movies too. I mean once we're dealing in the realm of ghosts one-star travel at this point really a question of how many side pieces yet j._f._k. J._f._k. Lots really ooh lots. He was crushing the game in the sixties and he probably would have to do any maintenance. He hit hit them up whenever i really don't know i don't know what the biography that's the book i want to read. It might exist. I've never read it but great the j. f. k. side. He's had yeah hit like he wrote it. We found this in his vault so anyway anyway the f. b. i. blackmailing pushing around presidents. It's it's existed for a long time so i things right now with james. Qomi said his a public statement about their meeting was that he was. He was just trying to warn donald trump. He's like i'm just letting you know this is out there. I want to let you know to protect you blind near and dear my new boss guy. They like of course so this. This is what he would say. I'm serving the president right now. I mean this is my job. He's the president of lighter so what's come out now. Is that undeniably away. Komi was lying when he said that so james komi there was an investigation already going on of the president they as they said that they knew this document was a salacious and unverified and they also knew that christopher steele couldn't be trusted. This is all we we know this all that the f._b._i. Knew this to from from the get-go so they know all of this. They tell donald trump none of this. They don't tell limit all that <hes> that he's being investigated. They don't tell him that. This was opposition research which they knew at the time they don't tell him that you know <hes> any of it but james komi does is he's got. He's got a an f._b._i. Secured computer waiting for him in in his limo or whatever car he's in gets in his car and immediately takes notes about all the details of what just happened in the meeting and how donald trump reacted he acted and then he leaks them he gives them over to friends of his who are professors or journalists or whatever and has the mall leaked now later these became classified pacified in and so this where people are like whether it's really crazy that you're just leaking information but for political purposes and to damage the president he's leaking inkjet and he's trying to so none so this is all it's so obvious now so donald trump fires james komi and this is what triggers the special council being appointed so that's the way this whole deep state game works you can either just sit there like a a bitch while the f._b._i. Director who's supposed to be working at the discretion of the president is basically blackmailing the president with bullshit. He's not even it's not even like the kennedy's he's not even he doesn't have the decency to blackmail you with your actual sidepiece. He's blackmailing you with bullshit. That didn't even happen okay so he he tries to blackmail the president. The president ends up firing him later and this is what gets the special counsel on them so that's one <hes> you know i mean we've we've known this for a while but it's just that much more solidified that much more confirmed and the other thing that it shocking that it took this long 'cause no one's i think i said this is the time anyone say but when he published his notes as wait a second your take these notes and just publish them and that's a big part of how because technically he didn't publish. I thought he published when i thought he got fired. He published what he said was his personal notes of having met with the president. It was twenty pages quite a bit. There was quite a bit of the hooker talking there there was some of when he he gave some of them to like some dude columbia and then he leaked them but he may have like talked about them later. Maybe he did publish published some later on but then apparently the f. b. I. had come to his house twice after he got fired instead haiti avenue f._b._i. Documents and those are now being reclassified is being considered f._b._i. Documents and that they weren't things that he was either. I thought publishing the president i guess or leaked to the press but he wasn't allowed to either way. It's the same thing but it was shocking to me that win. <unk> does either came out or i thought he had published it but when that came out no one in the press saying like hey. How does this guy have this information and how is he allowed to put it out. Yeah that was just overlooked worked. Look i'll say this man if you are anything other than like if you're anything other than a centrist by today's standards which is the worst thing you can be like i have i have lots of problems with the like democratic socialist socialist left. I have lots of problems with the populist right <hes> you know but there is nothing worse than the lindsey lindsey graham hillary clinton center of today's politics like we just wanna be corporatised warhawks. That's let's all meet in the middle and just like they. They have way more blood on their hands there. They've destroyed much more of the society. If you're anything other than that if you're anything other than somebody who believes that once every four years we should have have a choice between mitt romney and hillary clinton you know john mccain or barack obama what whoever it may be jeb bush or fucking you know kirsten gillibrand lakeview if you're outside of that at all their libertarian <hes> hard right-wing hard left wing guy anything like that or even just somewhat of an honest leftist or an honest rightist e either one. You should have a real problem with this story. You should be <music> outraged by what the deep state did donald trump here because you go wow if anybody who's outside of your tower structure tries to come in and assume power when they're democratically elected. They're going to just be relentlessly targeted and it's that simple i mean if they could look man. I thought from the beginning that i was like they're gonna. I was said and this is why i wasn't even write about my prediction about the special counsel what i said from the very beginning of the robert mueller special counsel was that there is nothing about russian collusion. This is all bullshit that james comey was trying to blackmail donald donald trump and it didn't work because donald trump's to fucking trumpian but i said the special counsel on them and like a pit bull hey he we'll go through everything he has and he'll find some crime that donald trump's committed. He'll find some dirt in the same way. That ken starr never found anything with whitewater water but he did find that bill clinton perjured himself the same thing's going to happen at trump. Okay nothing with russia collusion but here's this criminal real estate deal that you did back in the day. That was how i saw it going and they certainly pit bull them. They pulled that everything they got everyone. Who's fucking associated with him who maybe cheated on his taxes twenty years ago anyone who lied to the f._b._i. Anyone who didn't register as a foreign lobbyist when they were a foreign law but you know the type of infractions that happen all over that anyone could ever still got nothing on trump. They got fucking nothing on them so the point is not whether you like donald trump or not the point is that with nothing they were able to do all this us with nothing so you'd think what what if you're an honest antiwar leftist or you're you're. You're a small government conservative ever anything like that anything like that. You gotta be outraged that this happened because you don't want to set this president. I let's say a quick second and thank our sponsor for today's show which is wick's dot com wicks gives you the freedom to create the website. You want whether you're promoting your business. Showcasing your work or opening an online store. You can do all of that with webex. We love wicks because it's easy to use. I mean when i say easy to use. I'm capable of using it. I can actually build a website at wicks and i'm about as computer illiterate as it gets so if i can do it you can do it really easily. Wicks will help you get your business us in front of people who you wanna know about it while looking professional and saving you money also a nice bonus. You can start building your site for free and if you use the promo code p. o._t. At checkout checkout you get ten percents off any wicks premium plan so you can build a free website or you can go for a premium plan and if you use the promo code p._o._t._a. You'll get ten percent off that so that's wicks dot com promo code is p. o. T. p. at checkout for ten percent off any premium plan wicks dot com. Go get yourself that website. You've been wanting to build for while it'll be easy. It's gonna look great wicks dot com all right. Let's get back to the show. I was talking about with chris the other night when this guy. I'm <hes> fucking what's his name. God damn it. What's his fucking name. I i don't know why i keep brank blanking on them but <hes> <hes> joe walsh that guy said and i i thought it was such a revealing thing when he was being interviewed by c._b._s. And he said that you know he's he's like primary and trump. He'll he'll go nowhere but he <hes> he he goes. You know i just donald trump is not fit to be president and saying that hold kind of new democrat neo-con talking point and be like when did you first realize donald trump was unfit to and he goes it's when he went to helsinki and sided with vladimir putin over his own people he was disloyal to his own people and oh by the way by <unk> own people. You mean intelligence community right so that's that's how you look this that he was disloyal to the the c._i._a. Because the president is supposed to be loyal to the c._i._a. Excuse me what wait what the same intelligence community there was investigating him during elections that was supposed to be so while they're there drumming up this bullshit on you you gotta that'd be loyal to them like i'm sorry i thought this whole thing about democracy was that the the like the the government derived its rights from the consent of the people and that's why the democratically elected president has a c._i._a. That's loyal to him. You're telling me the president has to be loyal to unelected spies so explain to me again how this is all a criminal criminal organization explained to me. This isn't just our rulers ruling over us anyway. There's something about all of that. That's why i kind of love it really i. I wish i mean look. I wish the focus state was abolished tomorrow but but short of that more reasonable wish i wish he would just say instead of being like you showed this loyalty to his his own people be like he needs to be loyal to the cia. That's the president's job. Just say what you're saying. You work for them anyway so so anybody should have a major major problem with that the other thing that's interesting to me about. This is that for two years <hes> donald trump as he didn't have control of the a._g. <hes> which was because he had rod rat face rosenstein and you had <hes> what's his name who's the other guy who is in charge until they replaced or southern son of a bitch. I e face recused himself sessions sessions. Just it's the old jeff sessions so yeah but it'd be basically they threatened sessions to play ball with them and said hey. You got to recuse yourself because you can't you know and that was the whole power. Grab that yeah yeah. These agencies are supposed to work for the president and they don't work for the president. You end up with the f._b._i. Basically be able to run this whole investigation but now trump at the end of his first you know run his first term in office. He's able to re wrangle control of his justice department and now we're starting to get some the information even though i don't think they're gonna go that that deepens what you thought right here. This is what they're gonna do. Oh it's a scathing report of james combing but were not pressing charges. There's right what you're you're going to see over and over again as people getting off. We'll give you just enough information so you feel like we're doing something where we're quote exposing them but you never get the justice. It's all about who's actually got control over these agencies. That's the internal power because it's all the appeal to authority well. This agency said that who actually has control over this agency now he finally has enough control control this agency that at least comb he's going to have to kind of disappear for a little bit and can't pretend to be this white angel <hes> but it'd be interesting trump does get a second term if he has more political capital and he really has control over shit and maybe they do actually hold some people accountable well. It's interesting and that's a good transition when you say if trump gets a second term because man the <hes> the front runner of the democrats who the democratic primaries mary's right now who's the guy who's supposed to be challenging donald trump mr joe biden. Who is this guy having a tough run of it. It has been something i i mean goddamn two thousand nineteen you tip my hat to you. It's just like everything everything just gets funnier and funnier and more ridiculous and more. There's never been a time where you would you would question more whether or not you you are living in a simulation with seriousness joe biden. It seems like every day there's a new thing that joe biden's doing a new you know a gaffe aurelie or just what seems to be a man slipping a guy who's not quite the man he used to be and the man he used to be isn't quite as great as he thinks the man he used to be was <hes> or maybe he missed remembers it and he was a war hero or whatever a coal miner whatever he's claiming to be this day but i mean it's just one after the other after the other whether he's he's like you know sniffing a kid or <hes> <hes>. Just you know stumbling getting decades wrong getting names wrong getting stories wrong struggling to remember obama's name seemingly at one point. Did you see that one. I didn't see that one can youtube that real quick brian. I didn't have this one pulled up but <hes> garage back joe. Joe biden forgets obama. It should come up right after that. Let me see the screen is your youtube at. It should be a real quick one but this was joe biden just the other day really here on c. here. Pull it up so i can. I can see it. I actually i don't know what to say about this. I'm not actually ashore what it was. <hes> yeah the second one. There's more and more attention to the <hes> the part where it's joe biden liden. I don't need to hear this guy. Talk isn't amazing with this stuff. You can never find the original fi- it's so annoying so annoying by the way we are contributing. Another country significant portion. He saying was president. She's now. I get any come on. I want to see the stumbling over the word nova. That was what he did. He president my boss and he's like. Are you obama. I thought he was your best friend now. I wasn't sure exactly what that was but it's it's every day. There's a new thing there's like a new okay so this is something that look people are starting to realize slowly and you see this in the mainstream media realize what we were saying at the beginning of this campaign we go. I don't know if you're kind of released thought he was a half atar. Now seemed like he's like oh yeah. No that's but i'm just saying like what they're starting to realize. Is that like joe. Biden can't come out of this thing. It's it's not going to happen. This is a paper tiger. If ever there's been one he there's there's no strength behind joe biden. It's he doesn't have anything to electrify the democratic base today and he's just <hes> goof. He's yeah. It can't snap out of if she's his. He can't stop doing this. Whatever this is he's not nearly as clever as he thinks he is. He has none of the socialist support. No intersection analogy street cred. You know just a just a straight white rich guy and this is going to go bad this. This is gonna go really bad for him and then you realize that the next two candidates right now are bernie and warren did d- and there's something interesting where okay so technically i i don't know exactly what the averages but it's probably something around biden at thirty percent elizabeth warren and bernie sanders at around fifteen to twenty percent each so you've got like you know that's about and then the rest are or just splitting crumbs but when you look at it you realize oh bernie and elizabeth warren together are beating biden him and biden's a paper tiger who could fall at any point right so you go okay so really the progressive wing of the party actually has a bigger chunk than joe biden does is just being divided between these two people either bernier elizabeth warren fall out. Where's their support gonna go psycho in a biden. It's going going to the other one of those two right right so probably already with the numbers as they are either. One of them are in a better situation as long as they could get the other guy out or get by out you know so it's just it's a tough situation and then you realize there's like these moderates and when i say moderates i i just mean corpus hack tools of the military industrial complex but that's who the media is trying to push and that's what the democrats we're trying to push and they're all fallen flat on their face. It's like a kamala harris falls flat on her face fucking beta rourke flat on his face the mayor pete but stuff flat on his but they're all they're all having a lot of trouble mayor people at stuff flat on his mouth all of them <unk> are just they're failing and this is whose left standing right now anyway. It seems to me he liked. There's there's some concern is starting to sweep over the corporate press press. This is what i've been noticing lately and they're trying to figure out how we deal with this. They don't have a good answer. They don't have a good answer to basically basically elizabeth. Warren is their only hope because they feel like she's one of them and maybe she can be the one to do it but i think they're very concerned over the fact that they know she'll lose to trump. It's just you pretend to be an indian heap. Fucking troll do in taking a dna test which failed and then bragged as if you had succeeded seeded she remembers she put out that video. I know what i am. She goes here. She has the fucking the whatever on the phone and she's like. She's like donald trump likes to say. I don't have any native american blood in me. Is that true and he's like no. That's not true that you don't have any and she's like how gotcha your one one thousand thousand in twenty four native american and you're bragging when you've been listening yourself as a woman of color your brag holy shit did he do a job on you so so they're starting getting nervous because i'll tell you and this is why things are gonna get ugly. It's actually kind of scary to me because if you think that the entire media telling you it's over hillary clinton's one trump can't possibly win and then trump winning and you see how crazy everybody's gotten and since then because it's you either have to go to a crazy place or admit that you're a complete fraud and have been a fraud for decades. That's a difficult position c._b._s. So they go to the you know. There's klu klux klansmen behind every rock in america or russia interfered in the election. There was collusion between russia and trump so now they got nothing out of the muller hearing you see them freaking out. Trump getting reelected is going to be who i mean if you think i think the left is wacky. Now wait till trump gets reelected. It's going to be a shit. Show okay and little by little they're starting to realize fuck does is everybody you talk to kind of knows this. I read the first time around people would be like there's no way trump's getting elected. This time you talk to people they're lying but it gets elected. Even people who hate trump gets fucking reelected. I've talked to a lot of people who feel that way so this is what they're trying to do now. They don't want to just throw joe biden's. The wolves quite yet because it's like he'd they. We still think he might be the best shot we've got but they're getting worried so they're in spin mode and that's that's what's been interesting so i guess the latest thing is is that joe biden told a story about a war hero that that he had met and the war heroes story and it's just completely ship is just telling a story has nothing to do with this guy is just making up details claiming that it's i think his defense offenses that it was from several different stories and he pieced together but this is something truly bizarre anyway. Let's let's play video rob. You sent me this video. Let's play the first video video and watch the media deal with this situation breath that is raising questions moments ago the vice president responding to criticism that he was conflicting three different true stories why trying to tell in moving story about a war hero and afghanistan. Here's what he told the washington post and already. Isn't it really unbelievable the way to go. He's responding responding to criticism that he conflicted three different true stories while it's another way of saying that he fucking lied but no one will. I used the l word with joe biden even though if you go to c._n._n. And we do this all the time every goddamn day. There's a new story about trump's lies but this is what he inflated three true stories well. That's kind of the same as making up a story. You know. This isn't that kind of the same thing as like lying all right. Let's let's play ben. Fact checking biden's claims what is the gaff. When i said there was a young man i tried to pin a medal and he said i don't want sir. He died. He died. He died noseeums man. My recollection was that in fact pulled a colleague in his out of burning humvee and he risked his life doing it and the young man died did he tried to save that is not entirely the story. He told here is part of the story. Biden told young navy captain navy navy up in the mountains and the value of ghanistan one of his buddies got shot fell down a ravine about sixty feet guy climbed down a ravine carried this guy and his back under fire and the general wanted me to pin the silver star on them. I got up there and stanton as the god's truth. My word is a biden. It stood at attention. I went to click word is abide to the trained either as a few subtle tells when joe vitamins making up a story number one he goes he was in the navy navy navy like there's no need to give that to us three times then he goes just in the middle of his bullshit story goes god's honest truth. This happened joe. We never we weren't really questioning whether this happened or not until you kept smiling. We're as a biden. My word is a by what could be more noble or accurate then the word of a biden. I'll tell you even the bucket. People are starting to get suspicious of joe biden. His key demo are starting to turn on him. Let's keep plying. Do not turn it on reserve. Please sir uh-huh do not do that. He died. He died from now. One of the reporters that fact checked biden story matt visor of the washington post matt. You heard biden's response to the questions about the story <hes>. What's your reaction. Yeah i mean the reaction is he's. He's emphasizing today. In interview with my colleague jonathan kaye part <hes> the story of chad workman <hes> which is a very compelling story <hes> involving an incident cendant in wardak province in afghanistan that happened <hes> which she got a medal a bronze medal in two thousand and eleven and and it does the incident does occur as biden has described it <hes> and as a workman who we spoke with describes it <hes> the problem is that that's not not the story that biden told <hes> last week i it's also not the story that he was telling in two thousand sixteen on two occasions <hes> so so he's been telling a different story that has <hes> at the core of it this emotional story about a workman <hes> sergeant workman but in in a different context text so it was a who gives a fuck if you're telling a different listen who cares about truth or context when you're emotionally manipulating people who cares what's the goal the story like what does he get at the end of it at least giving credible. He's trying to tell us compelling story. What what's the point and i've heard heard people talking about this before. This is what it is right. This is what old school politics is. Okay you work out. These lies these stories that never happened and go around and you tell them to a whole bunch of it's usually some crazy story some great thing some thing you overcame in your childhood some hero who you were cool with you get emotional you get them kind of like on the verge of tears and then you were there and you really care and now we made an emotional connection say you win votes and what they'd always count on that the media will never fuck in put on blast with this shit but now we live in a different age where there's the internet and these journalists will be swarmed by people on twitter who do all all of this fucking research themselves so they have to cover it now so i've heard people talk about this. Before a scarborough mentioned i remember years ago in the stuck tuck with me but it was just he just said it like as an aside but it was like all his politicians have these stories that never happened that we go around and we tell that's part of campaigning and he just said it like yeah. That's what we do but that's what it is. <hes> so i- joe biden's like probably lost track of the real story and what his bullshit lie is he doesn't fucking. I can remember it was like i don't know i think kennedy died and seventy nine the fuck. Do i know about what happened with this. This power sniff some kids but it's right exactly and by the way he's got plenty of both plenty of kids to sniff but is not going to be president anyway. Let's keep playing. What crucial details did he get wrong. So on friday he got wrong several elements <hes> talking about going to the kunar province which is in a different area than the one that workman was in <hes> in kunar <hes> <hes> you went as a senator not as vice president as he stated the other night <hes> there was not a navy captain involved as he said the other night. It's an army sergeant and workman's is case <hes>. He's not pinning metal on anybody in kunar province. He's he's pending metal on somebody <hes> later in wardak province and then the other element is that he's describing this <hes> ravine and somebody falling down a ravine and going to retrieve a fallen colleague that is an incident that did occur in wardak province and the <hes> military member involved with that kyle white got the medal roll of honour which was given by barack obama at the white house <hes> so he's he's using psi. There are several different stories that are true. <hes> that are hold from obama is again involving. One of the soldiers did in fact happen. <hes> climax really funny zoos. I want this medal from a ball. I don't want this weirdo sniffing my kids. Oh come on fee i always had i almost died out there getaway getaway want. I don't want it. I don't want it. Don't put on me honey. Get the get. The car started the vice president's giving it to us. I bailed. I said before we got here. I would would not take anything from him. Yeah anyway so this is their coverage of obama of biden. Excuse me i'd made the same mistake biden <hes> <hes> this is their coverage of biden just inventing things getting details completely wrong just for his own you know fucking die just to boost up his own own story and legacy just making things up putting the d- wrong branch of the military in the wrong place and the wrong province in the wrong country stamp of the biden name yeah exactly so right and giving his giving the the very you know meaningful biden stamp camp of. I swear to god this happened. He invoked the lord. That's why i'm covering this guy. You don't invoke the lord and not tell the truth. I let's just play the rest of this ms. His emotional is one that that occurred just not in the context which he's been describing it matt visor. Thanks very much out front now. April ryan white house correspondent for american urban radio networks networks lisa lacerra. She's national political correspondent for the new york times april. Are these significant differences in the story telling here. Yes has their significant significant differences. Gem what you have to look at. We are in a climate of lies being thrown at us from the president of the united states and we're so hyper-sensitive about issues of lies people who are prone to gaffes. We are now holding them to the same standard putting that bright spotlight on looking can get as a lie like this president tells. I saying oh that's joe biden. He's prone to gaffes at issue. Is this okay so that the concept that we should be okay with the president who's prone to gasping oh. He's just a gaffer now. He's a fucking retard. That should be an issue for your president. Excuse my language anguish like by this standard. You know you're gonna lose that debate. You can bring back <hes> johnson. There's no issue with gaff. Hey it doesn't matter what information you don't know. Hey the only reason where there's an issue about what you know no is because we got a president. That's lying smell of if you're gasping people think you're lying. No problem is either the guy's lying or he's really really stupid and we always said hey biden can't run because he's really stupid and now you're with. Nobody and it's pretty obvious oh he's dumb as we thought and what is exactly like how do you determine what's a gaffe half verse ally. That seems to me to basically come down to who's on your side of the aisle. I mean like to me. A gaff is kind of like forgetting something like i think when he said the and this is just me i don't know if this is the official definition or whatever but to me when he said kennedy got killed killed in the seventy s kind of that's kind of gaffe like no it was the sixty yeah you know and even though the kennedys were going to get this guy or there were worse gas on the spot yesterday but that's kind of a gaffe but if you're just making up a story i mean and with nuance detail swearing god it happened when it did it. That's not a lie and it's so weird that april ryan this hack. She'll just immediately go like well. You know what the problem with joe but you know the problem why every single day there's a new story about how thuc in like horrible a candidate joe biden is and how he can't get through a speech without out sniffing a kid or just blurting something out that that makes you go. This person is insane like i wouldn't trust this person to have a middle management position at an important company but we're supposed to hand over the military to this guy you know what the problem with that is that it's trump's aligarh and nobody's even used the l. word in this whole segment against biden but right away it's like well trump's aligarh and that's why we're getting focused on by them but by a gaffer trump's aligarh biden's a gaffer a big difference. You can't come. There's nothing wrong with the gaffer gaff gaff great time at a party gaffer but aligarh aligarh is a nazi but it's like what the fuck are utah so so why doesn't trump ever get the benefit of the doubt for a gaffe. You know trump goes. Oh hey my the crowds at my inauguration. Were the biggest history they go. Actually you're a liar. It's every day go to c._n._n. Dot com use twelve is donald trump told that the g seven summit or whatever it is one of gaffes. I'm there was a gaffe. Maybe he forgot that. His crowd wasn't as big as obama's. I mean i don't really think so. I think trump's spoken liar but you know what so's biden like. They're all fucking liars. Hey there you go. They're all liars. That's how this whole thing works. When you're the mafia pretending to be human rights organization you don't fuck and put people put in the front of the mafia who tell the truth because then they'd go. Hey we're the mafia so you need. Liars biden's a goofy gaffer. Yeah no nats from the spongebob movie but it's goofy goober okay bye as house released spongebob writers genius get that out. There are less all right. Let's keep playing it. Workman did say you know he died. Do not pin the metal on me. All the other stuff is important important but was it something that it's been so long and he just couldn't get the story right or wasn't out and out lie. That's the question and we have someone in. The white house. Who we know is a liar point blank and now this this person who's running for president is known to gaffe. He needs to get it right if he tells the story but was it intentional. That's the question and i don't think it was. Let's play more of a bind just told the washington post about the story have listen. I want to get your reaction. Ah i was making the point how courageous these people are how incredible they are this generation of warriors these fallen angels angels. We've lost and so that i don't know what the problem is. I mean what is it that i said all right as you're christian conservative leader. I should probably know this better but is it really a compliment to call someone. A fallen angel. Martinez wasn't the devil fallen angel. I don't know about that yeah okay anyway. Sorry small thing there but it doesn't matter if i told the live my point was how great these people are what heroes they are. It's like another unbelievable bowl thing about how these fucking corporate is war. Hawks are able to get away with what they are. I always thought it was amazing. I remember at hillary clinton's <hes> democratic national convention in two thousand sixteen. Do you remember when she had those <hes>. Those muslims come in <hes> <hes> whose son served in the in the army and died in iraq and they lecture donald trump over his muslim ban and they were like you know this any pulled out the constitution and by the way his wife didn't talk like a good muslim wife she stayed there and shut the fuck up through the hole speech and he fucking pulls out of pocket constitution it goes this is the constitution donald trump you should read it and they got like a big applause and and i was talking about this on the podcast i was going crazy. I was like holy shit donald trump. This is the biggest opening and it took him a few days but eventually he'd fokin got there but he was like he was like yeah. We should have thought the war in iraq. Your son would still be alive. If if i was in charge it's like some of the hillary clinton who voted for the war in iraq doesn't even think twice before she brings a a fucking like the family of somebody who died in that war which is pretty universally accepted. We shouldn't have fought. I i mean it's not like like the war was sold off bullshit. The war was sold on gaffes. If you will the george w bush had a gaff when he said that saddam had weapons kinds of mass destruction and that he was working with al qaeda. It was a really big gaffe. Million people died over that gaff. I would never call him a liar but you know he was a big gaffer that george w. rush so it's always amazing to me. These people like who support all these wars can then invoke the fallen angels these amazing as in people who die in these wars and just use it for political points and they don't even have their so drunk on their own bullshit that they don't even go like oh wow i mean these people are so courageous and you know i sent him to these wars that we didn't need to fight and they died. Maybe i shouldn't talk about this. I mean i got the most courageous amongst killed at burlington. Bring this up but they're like oh now. Bring it up. Every single event is that you work the focusing you know so you pull tug on the heartstrings strange system this this whole government thing all right. Let's keep playing matt visor. Lisa was making a point about the location in afghanistan different provinces etc does that fundamentally automatically change the meany the story he was trying to tell. I think you know the emotional core. Is there as you point out earlier in this in the show but i think the question for joe biden is whether this becomes part of a larger narrative about his gas and not only about his guests but about his readiness and his ability eight to go head to head with donald trump you have this very risk adverse democratic party electorate that just wants to find somebody more than anything else that they feel is is the strongest candidate to beat donald trump and biden has positioned himself is the most electable and if he starts looking like a riskier choice you know through getting details and stories stories like this wrong through <hes> offhand comments that he would argue are misinterpreted and just little mistakes like <hes> last week when he was in new hampshire and said he loved loved vermont things like that. He starts looking like someone who's more risky to democrats. You could see this race. <hes> stir turn. There is a possibility that he could lose his commanding position position in this primary and that's really i think the real risk comes in for him april to your point about the emotional core <hes> the emotional cores right just just notice the tone of which they cover biden how much they're trying to cover up for his just what any normal person would be like. Oh my god i mean this guy is just like a shell of his former self. That wasn't that great to begin with. Let's keep playing. Tell me on the loose sure. Do we do have a sitting president. Who deliberately propagates falsehoods every day have have the metrics of a campaign. Straight journalists passed just a gaffe. A miss told story might have been consequential. I mean are the standards different when you have someone who deliberately lies every day. Yeah the standards are different. Everything has changed <hes> ballyfermot biting his lip just because he's like man that didn't sound like something a journalist would say well even he's uncomfortable with that. He goes you know who is in <hes> deliberately <hes> speaking mitch tru send someone who deliberately really lies every day i said i mean this goes back to when you're being a little kid two wrongs don't make a right. It's like if the other parties murdering people and then you rape a couple. It's not well we we changed the standards here the other party murders all the time. We just got a couple of rapes over here. You see right so you can even do a segment about joe. Biden making bullshit shut up like telling a story. That's not real swearing to god that it's real and telling a bullshit story and your story go well. Donald trump's aligarh. I mean that's that's the story here is that donald trump's aligarh so does is it a problem for them. When you know donald trump's a liar that's the question and the answer answer is well. Donald lies so much change the standard where we don't even need an honest candidate. We just need someone who lives a little bit less as long as we're doing that. We're more moral. Absolutely that's the standard all right. Let's play a april ryan's response and then i have another video. I wanna grab a sec player who changes the whole <hes> game of spades. I declare war whatever you wanna play. Well monopoly be at that <hes> what happens is now. We very hypersensitivity anything. Anyone says because we're holding this. It's such an account with fact checking. That's one of the big things i mean for us to watch a president deliver a speech and in real time time fact check that is saying something. We have never had to really do that before because god posit. What an admission. We've never had to do that before we've never been fact checking president before because they've never told any lies that donald trump is the first one on the first president to tell lies lollygag obama said if you like your health care you can keep your health care. It's not like obama fucking denied the drone program for the first couple years of his presidency straight up wouldn't they wouldn't they wouldn't talk about it. It was just lightning strikes <hes>. I don't know what you're saying a lot of lightning over yemen recently the desert's do for nice lightning storm. All these houses should stop doc spontaneously combusting but are are we supposed to pretend that bush didn't lie isn't excuse me gaffe us into war. I mean ronald reagan george. H w we're gonna pretend they didn't lie but we've never isn't that quite an admission though right and this is the thing it's not trump does like trump lies all the fucking time to to probably daily but the idea that somebody in the media who's by the way she's a white house correspondent. She's a journalist is april. Ryan is for some reason respected affected in these circles the the idea that she would actually say for the first time ever. We have to worry about the president line. I mean before then we all took them at their. We're on with us guys. Such a great guy would never lie of course not if it was hillary clinton and jeb bush and there would just be like yeah whatever they say. That's the story. That's how hope that's helped. Journalism used to work and now we got this guy. We gotta think is this even true. We've got a research hole for in real talktime like she's so into this real time thing as he's giving which we have to do work to see if it's true wow what a crazy situation being as journalists. This lady is going to have a problem with the concept of technological developments like you know. It's something new comes along. It's like oh and now we use this new technology it. It's it is a fucking. I thought that was quite a stunning admission unintentional on her part. Hey we're we're running up against at the time so i want to just switch over to the video and i just wanna show this because i thought it would be interesting like an interesting juxtaposition to show this is how they cover joe biden lying and here is donald trump and he gets covered on the same network ahrvard by the way says ninety ninety percent of the news coverage of the president is negative not mind lords hard so at harvard said harvard said ninety percent of the coverage is negative. They didn't say why why is his. I take it back and listen to how hostile there listen to what she says and listen to what he chris cuomo this frago by the way <hes> grilling <hes> mm. What's her name fuck. I'm blanking on her name. Does it say it in the description now it doesn't i fucked. I know her. I feel fucking bad that. I don't remember her name. She's nice. I've met her a few times <hes> anyway just listen to the difference in tone listen to what she says says and what he calls her on just right there in that statement right there. This is why harvard by the way says ninety percent of the news coverage of the president is negative. Non landlords harvard <unk> hard harvard said harvard said ninety percent of the coverage is negative. They didn't say why the why is that. It's literally exactly what no no no. That's now what they said well. They said what you just said. Yeah not the why ninety ninety percent of the news coverage is negative like okay but it's justified all right. Let's keep pine and his actions if he didn't lie if he didn't take out of context if you didn't demonize people for being different if he didn't make it okay to be bigoted then he doesn't walk at the same kind of look at fox news and call it state tv and people aren't going to call you out for being unfair to my guests who is is the press lies president has ever lied. Take it from jim. Komi who literally no answer that question. I the american people no i really mcnamee's credibility will be shocked with my audience and the american fake news is the american people. I want to ask you this one more time kelly mcenaney. Do you believe this president has ever lied to the american. No i don't believe the president collide. I believe the fake news media due to my head. Do you believe a fake news media over kelly please. If you can make the president of the american people you will not have credibility with the long way to go kelly look this when a president is telling the american people every every day not to believe in a free press that the enemy of the state hinckley lies about the allies eighty seven what we really wanna know. Why you're media hates the country he is to blame for sowing the seeds impressive degree zero president gives access and you lie about everything he says and taken he came out of car. I have ever lied about this president life. You may not like what i say. That doesn't make it alive. He lies all all the time and you know it our they won't listen to you out of context and putting one story with another lied about is if the president lied lied about this president okay i'll give you thrive rate would wanna funding lied about the president in that rent he. He said that donald trump says on a daily basis of free press as the enemy of the people. It's not what donald trump says. Donald trump says is that the fake news is the the enemy of the people. Maybe that was just a gaffe. I'm sorry maybe you don't you just gaff but look. I'm not a trump supporter. I hate saying this people. Give me shit for just claiming it all the time but i know comes camp. I'm not i'd love to see the guy impeached and tried for war crimes. I really would but let's let's. It's just be fair about this. Do you think there's a little bit of a double standard in the way they covered by into trump. Were they have three people on a panel all just apologists for biden making up a story just making up a story the wrong branch of the military the wrong country the wrong facts. None of this happened and like well. It's it's gaps gaps and but but trump's aligarh so let's make the story really bad trump's aligarh and these are gaffes and you know it's because of trump were a little bit more so we wouldn't even be paying attention attention this shit. You know we wouldn't even be that. We we'd let them tell their bullshit stories but now trump we're kind of like is this story bullshit so trump's such a liar but you know buying gaffe brennan being gaffe-prone could maybe maybe turn out to be a problem for him. So we really gotta watch these gaffes and then she comes up trumps aligarh. Can you tell me that trump's never lied now. First of all i do sympathize with kaley a little bit here because i you know i i've met a few times. She's she's fairly nice. We've done panels on kennedy before a couple times and look when you work for a president. You're in an impossible situation. So of course she has to beep. She's completely full of shit. Where's she has asked. A question like has donald trump ever light. Can you imagine now he's tiny for working for donald trump and the guys that question. Has he ever lied you. Gotta go has has the media ever lied. Okay obviously donald. Trump is like donald trump's lied while they were doing this interview right. Yes obviously donald. Trump is light but it's it's still hard to not look at the outrageously unfair coverage i mean would they. Could you imagine ever in obama rep coming on c._n._n. Men and then going let me ask you a question. This is my first question off. The bat. Has obama ever lied ever i of what person can you saying no to about that. This is the nature of politics. Is you have to pretend these people are fucking saints said true every one of them by the way if you as one of obama's webster biden's reps are trump's rhapsody they all go. Has he ever lied. They will have to look you in the face and go no. He's never lied perfect. It would be people like the rest of us like. You've just asked you rub. Have you ever lied. Of course i mean i'm human even like i've lied. I have a lot of skills so why spa we've all tied before in our lives like it's just so ridiculous i don't know like have you ever lied. Have you ever had a job where you never told a lie. You're never like oh you know. I can't make it in tomorrow for so-and-so reason but it wasn't really for someone so reason. You've really never like oh okay. I mean most of us. Try to be honest most of the time but like i can tell you that i've never lied about <unk> out in opinion that i have on this show that that i could stand by but like never live like anywhere it's just ridiculous standard but could you imagine the masking that of anyone else of any other politician who wasn't trump or a trump supporter is yours foot can't and the hostility that they treat her with the unbelievable still gonna cut the interview short. This is it. You're out of here. <hes> you you either either. Here's your thank you either admit trump's aligarh or get the hell off my show. That's how we treat them and then juxtaposed that with the biden coverage coverage well. What do you think about these gaps. I mean they were based off three different stories. There was a kernel of truth in each one of these. This is let me tell you something and i don't just play this all to just have fun and you know i mean well okay i do. We're we're entertaining content. Guys want to enjoy this but what this is. This is desperation. That's what this is. This is not a sound <hes> you know <hes> press but look look at the press is in the tank for the democrats anti-trump but this is not like fucking sound press on solid footing. Who's prosecuting the case against donald trump. This is desperation. This is listen. Ma'am donald trump wins re-election. You think things have gotten crazy. They're going to get lot crazier. They're going to get a lot crazy. Let me tell you something that fucking <hes> that crazy old bitch ruth gator ginsburg she crooks were finally not only has to resign because she gets cancer for the seventeenth time or whatever the fuck it. Is you think the cavenaugh thing was crazy. Wait 'till trump's gonna get to a point in another supreme court court justice wait till the country is going to be shaped over the next thirty forty years by donald trump. You're gonna see your you remember how we have a sexual predator predator on the supreme court was less time you heard about that. We still got a sexual on the supreme court right. I mean nothing changed right. Cavenaugh still in there doesn't matter there. There was a fight for power. There was a fight for power and that's why they were throwing that shit out. They lost the power now. There's no point in fighting anymore. These fucking supreme court justice picks. Are you know their lifetime appointments but if there's another fight for power for this and even more power this is this is the ugly thing like i will of rape so many dude. It's it's <hes> it's like a wounded animal. It's like when you're when you were actually scraping four power and you're losing it. That's it's when you just go all out and start talking freaking out and and let me tell you something the whole this whole corporatised artist corporate press democrat establishment the republican establishment for that matter to the all powerbrokers their whole thing is based off authority authority and power and if they start losing it they'll do anything they can to keep it the same way mir you would do anything. We could to keep oxygen if we were losing it. That's what's going on here. It's interesting to fuck and watch the shit out. Let me tell you something. Here's what's happening right. Joe biden got a debate coming up and now he's got to go in with bernie and elizabeth warren next to him. This is a tough position for joe biden. There's three front runners. Every poll has made this clear at this point. I know they wanted kamala harris to be in there but seven percent doesn't make you a fucking front runner. Sorry you ain't a front runner at seven percent percent two percent beta work. It's not happening okay. There's three front runners right now. It's biden warren and fucking sanders and warren sanders their whole identity. Is this progressive ideology allergy. It ain't the fucking crime bills of the nineties. It's not the fucking corporate shit that joe biden supports so he's got to go deal with these guys now. Now luckily for him. One of them is a fucking. You know a weird breadline socialist. The other one's a seventy year old fake indian indian and even that he might have some trouble with you. Gotta come off impressive against these two and i don't know if he has it in him but what's waiting for you after that is a killer her in donald trump feel however you feel about donald trump. This guy fucking plays for keeps. He's got knockout power and who do things are about to get a little bit roof for joe biden. I think the next debate is the beginning of september thing is in the first couple of weeks of september. Oh man it's going to be interesting to see how this all plays out. I want clarify my technology comment. Fictive melodic gas today but they don't have to come from me. They should become from from buying them explaining because i actually i think i was making a valid point is that it's kind of like a correlation doesn't prove causation thing that she's saying that now that we can fact check. It's very clear that it's because he's so faulty but if you had air bags that were now invented for the backseat of a car and he went oh these cars must be so much more dangerous now so to say they did like a new technology. Coming along is then proving the fact that it's necessary because something's worse well. This is not an acronym right. Now you're right that she just spilled the beans on the fact that technology did exist but i'm just pointing out that to look at new technology and to go oh. It's very clear that this needed to be here because it was more dangerous. It's just not right. You could just as easily make the draw the conclusion that you're like oh my god maybe every president before us was lying to us because now we have the ability to check in those guys is i mean they're just an and neither one is completely sound. It's like maybe maybe not but the idea that it's the same thing as when people go you know. Obama's administration was scandal scandal-free. I just anybody who's actually paying attention of this shit and again. I don't care if you're on the right or the left or anything in between or libertarian whatever the the idea that obama didn't lie like if you're just honest on the left or honest on the right i mean come on man. He would save lives all the time so just gaffe google all the time yeah he would. He would calf a lot. Also that gaff lot i mean. He said he said at one point. I remember in his last year in office. He said women get paid seventy seven cents on the dollar to men for the same work. I mean that's a lie subjectively ally. I'm for the same work or are you talking about. It's not even for the same hours like at at different work. It's it's you you have to you. Only get that number with no controls but of course like the most notable one was i mean that he looked the american people in their is and said if if if you like your insurance you can keep insurance. If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor. I mean but forget that. If you want to say like candidate the obama i mean he told all types of lies about what he would do so it's really just it's pretty amazing to see the double standard in the coverage and i i gotta say what's unraveling rattling about this. Whole thing is that they're hurting themselves with this because it's so transparent. It's so transparent that anybody what what you care about what these elections actions are always about are. The people are the undecided voters. You have like the red camp the blue camp who are movable and then you have the people can move and i don't think this is gonna move anybody who could be moved served. Maybe i'm wrong as always could be wrong. I could be gathering but i sure ain't lion all right. That's our show for today. Thanks for listening. We will be back on monday with a brand new episode piece.

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4:07:46 hr | 1 year ago

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"I'm John Pro. I'm the US editor the economist and host. A podcast called checks and balance. I'm Charlotte Howard. The New York Bureau. Chief I'm John Fatman. The Washington correspondent each week. We take a theme shaping American Politics Right now. Tap into America's rich history to answer some big questions. How do we hold an election and a pandemic? Why is the president trying to raise oil prices? How powerful is the Democratic Party? Machine is America seating global leadership with help from economist correspondence round the world. We dig into the data. The ideas history shaping the race for the White House and take a view without taking sides. That's checks and balances. The Global View. Democracy in America. Subscribe on Apple. Podcasts cost. We'll pause wait to their own crap or there's a there's a battle or we're developing a new ion cannon can't go to Mars or the moon trump just claimed jurisdiction of the moon. You know we got. We got just had my first our guest for two hours. He's all about. Oh Yeah if you fill out the right paperwork I got your dot ru you and I'm like Oh my God so it. The moon is spate while you're a citizen on the planet of we got your DNA sample of your property. I mean when does it stop giving your home? I only think about bitcoin mining. But look. Here's the thing when when I came down here I realized something real quick that people are very independent here and regarding something like that scenes for example. I talk to people around. Well what happens when he try to work that you contact freezes on you and all you everywhere and they say research juice and that's the that's right here from almost ever next down that that's maybe one in a thousand people here will not it but this is the hour backstroke. Well they do. They not visually off from Eric holder. Yeah the government's big. I'm crazy about my magic MUTT. This is the most important oral care. Product created this millenium. And I'm not kidding. We all have different opinions on politics and issues but we all have mouths and I want yours to be as clean as possible with teeth as bright as they were meant to be. I will never be without my magic mud. It's a little surprising but man. Does it work if you only listen to one thing I say ever go to my magic mud dot Com and get twenty percents off with Code F. T. L. my magic mud dot com code. F. T. L. Some of you asked and now we've delivered L. R. N. Dot F. N.'s. Live keene New Hampshire. Studio shows are now streamed in hd on twitch visit our channel at twitch dot L. R. N. DOT FM and give it a follow. If you have Amazon prime you get one free subscription on twitch if you use it on our channel which will give L. R. N. DOT FM. A monthly piece of your prime subscription cost so please watch follow share and subscribe to twitch dot L. R. N. DOT FM that's twitch dot L. R. N. DOT FM. On Free Talk Live. We're bringing people to the ideas of liberty. Every day from wrestling superstars. Like Glenn Jacobs you guys really are having an impact. I believe like I said a lot of where I am. Now is due to listening to freetalklive. You change my mind on some very important issues years ago to random people tuning in on the radio. I'm stuck in the less rice paradigm my show by chance on Saturday night from there I went on during the Free State project in become an amber flood. Free and early at Ruben. Report Dot Com and joining me today is an American businessman entrepreneur and founder and CEO of my pillow. Mike Lindell welcome to the report. Thanks thanks for taking the time my friend. I've wanted you on for quite some time. And then over the last couple of weeks you went from a guy. That's Kinda hard to get to a guy that's impossibly hard to get and now I've got you in a hotel and we're going to. We're going to take advantage of the time so everybody knows what happened a couple of weeks ago with you at the White House and the Brouhaha as I was saying to you off camera watching the media go after you was so consistent with what I've seen about so many of my guests who have dared to take an opposition opinion than mainstream allows for. But I want to hold that for a little bit because your backstory. What you've been through in your life is pretty incredible. And it's it's a true story of perseverance. Actually so could you just. I know you've told the story many times before. But could you just back us up and tell us the Mike Lindell's story and then we'll get everything happening in twenty twenty absolutely and by the way you talk about after. I said that at the White House Rose Garden the over eighty interviews. Now since then. So it's sprout this platform that God's given me just huge just when the caregiving bigger gets bigger but it all the way back on For my story of K. Begins Back I guess you were my new book? What are the odds from crack seal but it takes me back to? I was seven years. Old appearance divorced and best when divorces were common I got moved into a new school two hours away and I was the only kid in the whole school that was from a divorced family and I felt like right away started mayor. Visiting I DIDN'T FIT IN I. Would I would do things I remember. Climbing out of a moving bus went on to show up and jump into the DITCH SNOWING MINNESOTA. Luckily and everyone you know they would go out. Can you believe you did that? Would be these these crazy things or talk to them. I was very shy in that respect but I thought myself that I you know. There's something different about me. I just felt I didn't fit in with any one group and and this it kept going on and on Throughout high school and go traveling anywhere anywhere I I didn't. I didn't even date really in high school because so because of that it was it was just just unworthiness. Spirit and I think when I look back now but I I was up year reunion. I worked last two jobs a head neck. Then I got I WORKED FOR SOMEBODY. I worked in a grocery store and a driving movie theater of anybody. Don't what that is was a big theater we got. I went to one drive in movie in my entire life. I saw robocop in about nineteen eighty nine or so at a drive in. Yeah it was a big thing back when as my work there for years and it was the number one place to work back then by the way if you were to work for someone and it was fun but but anyway then went to college the U. of them in the first quarter. I dropped out. I was still working two jobs in that I just dropped out and ran away. I was addicted to compulsive gambling and they started drinking about seventeen actually laid for you know sixteen or seventeen but the We got our five year union. I remember giving their and of course I was probably high been drinking and are not in any way The all of these guys said either started families graduated from college started their careers or they kept the same job and moved up the corporate ladder already so I was upset with myself and I wasn't where I was where I knew I could be. Everybody was Academy. I thought wow you know what I did is I took over. That whole reunion. Told them about all these stories that we're true. I'm able the mouth you money. Twenty thousand dollars. They came to break my arms pro. Football bets I had when I was seventeen. I got like eighteen tickets on a on a motorcycle with today's outrun on the cops You know I went to go. Skydiving fell asleep on that motorcycle crashed. It was found terminated all banged up and mounted determined to get down to stand Minnesota and finish this skydiving jump. It was my ninth John and my parachute did not open the grounded. All these things but I'm telling everyone at the reunion and they're just wow. Wow when nobody. I didn't hear anything about anybody else but I got home that night. I laid in bed and it was just a deep. Sadness came over me that I really want what they had you know and I could pellet into this thing of like where's my life going and in. Oh well then it's about nineteen eighty two or eighty three You know I did different things. I became a card counter professional car daughter on my uncle. Edward John Inspire reason pigs. I've just the last job ahead for someone and I decided. Well I'M GONNA raise pigs myself into my work for him so I went bought. All these feeder pigs put him in a semi residential area and out the bottom fell out of the market that was a disaster so but tried all these entrepreneurial on the same period track as I tried cocaine and when I tried cocaine was instant I could be where I wanted to be at this false courage I add this know the mass any pain. I had a top of the world. Gymnast would anybody sign a me? I was you know felt better about myself. It was all these big lies but it was very functioning attic than cocaine for twenty years and George switched to crack in the early two thousand but during that time I ended up getting married. The Gomez Dreams. I have four kids very functioning addict and which You know addiction affects everyone. No matter how many folks you eat with people that say they're addicts should the street on the forbid Prosieben Addicott well moisture. Alex I hate to say are functioning or corporate world or in the they you know. I was afraid of talking anybody. That has the suit and tie. I was as good as Sam. You know but but they were just as many problems as Does well anyway. The got It was always end up having a bar for thirteen years and that. Barr will probably have pleased for an addict but but I am. I try different things in the bar. You don't learn a lot there with the entertainment and an advertising and stuff you know on different things a lot of the stuff I learned. There learned You know the entrepreneurship. I really took out but also is a bad place for my addictions and they switch to crack in the early two thousands and then I not do what I was doing with the bar anymore because cracks are different drug. It's not a social dry. You're tweaking windows at some. Took all my friends down the crack very fast and I said I'm never going to be like them and I ended up one of the worst ones if there is such a thing but in in two thousand Head to sell the bar two thousand three and that was that was a circumstance beyond my control but it was going down. Anyway it was going down the backside with crack and about two thousand four middle of the night when that had a dream of the name my pillow always my whole life searched for. I have problems with Phyllis when I was sixteen at the grocery store. I actually had a win out. Trip one of my first paycheck so went looked around and not on purpose. Store now bought a seventy dollars. A pill nineteen seventy right. That's a seriously expensive pillow adjusted for inflation adjusted. It was probably the way it was the most expense Epeli could find. But it's kind of this kind of you know what a extremes by appeal back down to where I'm at now but I tried to work. I couldn't return it and it. I remember that but it was an endless search for appeal but anyway at the stream of my pillow the need and I got up and I wrote it. All hosts connecting the wine. The I'm all excited. One of my daughters come upstairs on the morning. She's like eleven twenty she goes. What are you doing similar to spill? It's recall Michael. What do you think of? The name is going to change the millions of people? It's going to be. That was the biggest thing ever and I didn't even know what was going to be in. Guest she grabs her glasses she goes. That's really random DAB Jack I went all in I was just like I kept getting these dreams and you know whether that was something you could adjust an emmy and my one son day after d you get home from school and we would tear tried. I think we tried over ninety four different kinds of and things to win nothing what I wanted to and I just want to give up my friends or laugh and they're going to kill though and the other one's saying hey if you ever come up with something like that. I might want one took about a year year and a half and we finally had done and I and I was so we have no money left but we have some billows. I took the first one I went into a bed bath and beyond I remember going in. They're bringing in Jewish. Your is over there. I'm talking to my. He got the best pillow. Ever you can move at Justin. I didn't really know everything income harsh right. But I'm telling this soap Ashman how many you want. I didn't know anything about retailers sell you. We have one buyer. And you don't in these not here you aware is he. He's won national. I'm so persisted. Passionate he goes. You need. Don't lead now go no really homey what I'd now and this is the way we are closed door. One after another. Nobody wanted the pillow. Nobody wanted my bill snipe. Someone said Mike. Why don't you do a kiosk? Said how do you spell that? I actually went to the kiosk when I filled out something there. I was really out of my element because you could be on drugs and sell your big in which I which One of the things too. When I did sell Villalobos time I never broke trust with the promoters the key thing but anyway so we rented this kiosks at Eden Prairie Minnesota and I couldn't stand it talking to people straight. They'd come up in Sawyer it was it was it was just like. I couldn't talk and I'm actually hoping new customers would come up. You know it was. Kinda weird my wife at the time. She was most hours but the one day I did work. The guy came very aggressive. He he buys one he says I said You. A business cards said this is really unique. You got invented. This got any and he As I said I'm all out I wrote it on. A piece of paper gave the car or gave my number. I remember the kiosk such a failure. They ended up doing borrowing money for Christmas Host mortgage we are not allowed but we have three hundred pillows and so we left. Everything was gone and that guy called round January seventh that year and he goes. Are you the guy that invented this pillow in Minnesota? I said yeah he goes well he goes and I knew I knew I wouldn't give my number one guy he goes. Why I on the Minneapolis Garden show and I save spot for innovative products this pillow. I've never I've been sleeping on. It changed my life now going ball. I said Yeah. I'll come in eyebrows money to actually get into his show and but I got in there. Put a table out achievable Out in front of me so that people could come in the booth so I was felt more secure like a security blanket and they came by the first day I remembered I changed boots and selling and it was. It was easy for me then because they were coming up. I had an agenda. I would tell them just X. amount there was no small talk and And they would go by boy. I was telling him that first day every single one of almost big that first day they came back. The next state got back into the home show told me came up and said you know while there's fuel at this and say help me sleep and all. This wasn't about the money for me for the first time. I felt so good inside than I had done. Something to help somebody. And and this This ties with addiction. Everything which I can tell you in a minute but from outpointing on started seven years of doing home shows in fares in going town to town throughout the throughout the US have even make them and sell them at the At these home shows and Fairs and just hours and hours a work in some shows should be good some social bad but but track crack cocaine and and other addiction. Well and then people were taking the company. There was so many. Jackie tried to take the company that we'd have. We'd have so merck pursuers different people you. You're listening to the heartland news. Feed Radio Network at live dot heartland feed dot com. This stream is supported by advertisers and contributions by follow us on facebook twitter and Instagram's service doing newscasts for maybe eighteen twenty twenty i Mike Clifford some Republican lawmakers raising objections now to president trump's decision to fire State Department Inspector General Steve Clinic that from MSN. Mr Trump a Friday night letter to congressional officials said he was removing Lennick in thirty days because he no longer had confidence in him. Senator Susan Collins of Maine responded on twitter. The president has not provided the kind of justification for the removal of Aji Lennick as required by law. And as an reports at Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa agreed he said the Congress requires written reasons represented. Elliot ingle the chairman of the House. Foreign Affairs Committee has said the Department inspector. General's office had opened a probe into secretary of state. Mike Pompeo the House of Representatives has approved the next round of Corona virus relief at our Eric takeoff reports. Some such workers Washington state are watching closely. Jose Attila is a para educator for English language learners in Vancouver and a member of the public school employees of Washington Service Employees International Union local nineteen forty eight. He says access to sick leave in protections for workers are crucial permanent. Paid sick days and family in the US. This means expanding the healthcare coverage for uninsured and making so that there's for all are essential workers the three trillion dollar Heroes Act passed last week extends paid leave protections from Congress's last stimulus package as you want the bill to provide increased wages so essential workers receive time in a half pay meantime children's groups speaking out against of dollars in state budget cuts being proposed in. California. Let's say progressive benefit. Kids should be a priority ten lampert who heads the group now says because the Child Care Preschool and k through twelve would be devastating for kids especially in lower income families. It's basically taking kids who weren't getting the support they needed before this ban. Democrat and really exacerbating these disparities K. Through twelve is slated for nineteen billion dollar cut over the next two years California. Housing advocates predicted massive wave of evictions and foreclosures. Once the moratorium is lifted. Endless states like Michigan put together a comprehensive program to assist families that are thrown out of work by the cove in nineteen crisis. Michigan is home to more than two point five million renters and many are suffering. Kirsten Elliott with the community housing network in southeastern Michigan says. The money can't come fast enough sooner. We can get rental assistance for those that can't make the rent or make their mortgage payments better so that we are able to avoid having mass amount of people pushed into homelessness. The state has received than one hundred fifty two million in cares act funds so far and is working to shovel them out the door. I'm Suzanne Potter. This is PMS. A group at Idaho registering young people now to vote wants to motivate them to the polls. What the vote. Idaho has registered more than five thousand eighteen to twenty five year. Olds Boise. The CO founder of the group is Nancy Viana. But we tried to bring it home to them down to special things that would affect them in their life feeling assumes that might be access to public lands or the minimum wage for young people entering the workforce. North Dakota leaders want to find a new owner for the state's largest coal fired power plant which is slated to close in twenty twenty environmental groups. Say That's the wrong way to go. Here's Mike Mullen. Minnesota Base Great River Energy has announced it will close the coal creek station citing troubling marketplace for Coal Energy Governor Doug Burgum calls with the state's most efficient and updated coal. Plant saying he liked to preserve the two hundred and sixty jobs there gene words so the Dakota Resource Council says the best way to do that is to set up the site for reclamation and not keep it running I think some of those workers that are doing the mining right now could also speed up the reclamation. There's a lot of dirt that has to be moved in a lot of Soil to Be regenerated too so that produces as much as it did. Before where at estimates that reclamation jobs could last for several years a recent study of similar debates in Montana where the coaster power plant is being phased out founder robust cleanup. There would create hundreds of good paying jobs and permanently improve local groundwater and finally. Eric lattice tells us that conservation groups stepping back into the fray to stop latest proposal by the Forest Service to allow logging. More than three hundred thousand acres and bulldozing six hundred miles of new roads in the medicine bow national forest located in southern Wyoming. Connie Wilbert with the Sierra Clubs Wyoming Chapter says the Forest Service's own project documents estimates significant long term negative impacts from carving out roads and clear cutting some ninety five thousand acres the impacts on wildlife habitat recreational on water quality from increased erosion. All of those kind of impacts they admit could last as long as fifty years a similar proposal by the forest service last year was stalled after conservation groups filed official objections and the Center for Biological Diversity. The Sierra Club in wild earth guardians if filed a second round of objections over the new proposal projected to cost. Us taxpayers nearly two hundred fifty million dollars. The Forest Service says the revised plan limits. Open roads to seventy five miles at any given time and contends that thinning forests increases resilience and reduces wildfire risk from beetle. Outbreaks is my clever. Thanks for start you week. We public service. We are member and we're listener supported and online at public new service DOT. Org Happy Monday. Liberty Kitty cats and what a week. It's been it's been a wild and wacky week and I have a lot to tell you about before I get into today's interview with the Great Gene Epstein first of all of course since last Monday just in a marsh actually ended up dropping out of the presidential race after exploring it that has mixed things up a bit but on our end we are doing one more. Final presidential debate that will air live. Tuesday night eight PM Eastern on our facebook page facebook dot com slash lions of liberty it will feature Adam Co cash. Judge Jim Gray Joe. Jorgenson Jacob Hornberger and Vermin Supreme. This is one of the last stops on the road to the online conventions. GotTa check that out another thing. I gotTa tell you about. This is very important because it involves me yes your host. You're shining beacon of liberty. I gave a talk at Azeglio. Thorpe of escape artists putting on this amazing offshore escape summit from June first to fifth. It's all online a ton of amazing speakers guys like John Perkins has been on the show before Bobby Casey. A lot of big names in the ex pat world in the financial world. Plus your shining beacon of liberty your favorite podcast host. Marc Layer. What more could you ask for? All of these names are coming together to help. Show anyone you can escape. Oppressive government control eliminate your tax bill bill generational wealth travel the world and regain trust freedom by considering moving offshore becoming an ex pat which. I am a sort of half one at the moment at least temporarily here in Mexico but I even had the honor of giving my own presentation at this summit so you gotTa Check Out Offshore Escape Twenty twenty at least just to see me you can register completely for free. You can see any of these presentations for free. Just by going over to lions of liberty dot com slash. Escape you WANNA use that link to get there to get your free ticket. Checkout me and a bunch of other great speakers podcast. Here's your your. You're shining beacon of liberty mark. Kitty cats my guest. Today is a very special guest. He is a former editor at Barron's magazine. He runs the Amazing Soho Forum debate series in a place where he is currently on some form of lockdown in the heart of Corona Corona Mania there in New York City. I'm very pleased to welcome back. Jean Epstein Gene. Are you ready to roar well? Mark First of all it's great to be back with The fastest talking about cast codes. And I know The Guy who gets in maybe three to four words per second when the rest of US lucky if we can get in like two words per second and so. It's a pleasure to be with you but again as before I have to pass. I'm giving your wrote to too much. I have to learn to per as you pointed out a little bit too much when I debated a car the Socialist and most recently I think I wrote a little bit too much when I debated Steve War the economists who works for President Trump And so I'd like to learn how to per and I'll be touring throughout this interview. Hopefully I will. The only problem gene is her. It's kind of a slippery slope if you start purring before you know it you get a little fired up and suddenly you're roaring again so I don't know maybe you shouldn't resist it too much. Because I think people do enjoy the roars of Jean Epstein. I know I know a lot of people enjoyed your performance against Bosch Carson car like like you mentioned I'll leave it to you gene-o you're absolutely right. It's UNAMBIVILANT about that. But I just figured that if I if I try to per then obviously I only partially succeed and the world will come out so I won't disappoint anybody. Hopefully all right. Well I don't know I've never heard of anyone disappointed by Jean Obscene yet. But I've never spoken to your wife so I don't know but you did mention a couple of Soho form debates there and as you know you know in debates are currently not a possible thing in New York City. I know you've moved some of those debates online and But I think the debate people really want to know about is the one that was supposed to take place this month. featuring Scott Horton debating. Bill Kristol neo-con extraordinaire about foreign policy. What's the status of that debate Talk of moving it online. Talk of doing it. Just in the future What's going on there? Well I'm very reluctant to move it online. I do miss the physical debates soul forum as always had two missions not just one one of those missions of course is to is to get into present interesting debates to Libertarians. That's one the missions but the other mission Was To have a party to have a bar serving beer and wine soft drinks and with my wife catering and that's Conviviality mission people meeting each other interacting. There are those of us who when reapproach bar and we see people talking convivial. We get an anxiety attack. You'll be hit in when we're going to say but at the sole form you can talk about the debate you can actually meet debaters afterwards and I very much miss that. I miss the electricity physical audience but we have had out. Get to your question about the Scott and Bill Kristol Molin. We have had to interesting online debates. A one of them was between two economists on the On the on the advisability of the lockdown and That's online that that is As preserved on video and podcast and you can access it by going into a B. Cell phone debates podcast or you can go into our so for a website and access video and then most recently. We had a debate on immigration. A all our debates now get a hook or hooked to Yuck over nineteen crisis and so in that case we debated immigration of with Mark. Krikorian defending the resolution that the cover nine hundred crisis made it all the more necessary to keep immigrants out taking the negative with Bryan Caplan. Who has somewhat famously written and illustrated book on on the advocating open borders. So I recommend both of those debates. I enjoyed running but I certainly missed the physical audience getting to your question about Scott. Horton and bill. Kristol UP. We. I have now committed to having that debate in a physical space and natural reveal too much but the possibility is that I won't have it in Manhattan or in New York City because it looks as though that city is going to be under Hyder lockdown than other cities so that might happen might occur in another city and at least a saving grace. There is that a lot of people who bought tickets. Were coming in from out of town and so I hope I don't inconvenience all of them. Hopefully some of them were coming in. From out of town will be killing. We'd be willing to go to another city. Were physical event is more possible. So I am looking into that. And as and as I've stressed I am committed to having that electric exchange that Incredible Exchange Between William Kristol. Who by the way as been a real gentleman and has been very gracious about appearing with Scott Horton? I commend him on that. He suffered a fair amount of character. Assassination from some of my libertarian friends. But I want to tell them all quick character equipped assassinating the man's character. You WanNa boo hiss re presents his ideas. You could do that a little bit attack. The ideas don't attack the person but again to get back to your question. I'm committed to making that debate. Happen at might not happen in New York City but it will happen in some city in the US. Well good and whatever of physical place it it happens to take place at. I'm sure we're all going to be looking forward to it and especially at debate like that. Where so many people are so passionate about foreign policy As MAYBE BILL. Kristol's found on twitter. How passionate many Libertarians are about foreign policy? I think an in person is really the only way to go for something like that and I said I mean look Libertarians across the across the spectrum. Probably all disagree with Bill Kristol's foreign policy but he deserves praise. He deserves praise for agreeing to this debate and continuing to agree to commit to the debate regardless because at the end of the day. That's where we need to engage in ideas with people. We can't just saw online. We can't just yell and scream about it if especially when you have someone like Bill Kristol that has such a large platform such influence in Washington. I mean the fact that he's willing to do this at his remained committed to doing that. He prays praise for it. So I think Libertarian should not back backup on his policies but but maybe back off on calling him calling him. Names or whatever's going on online. Absolutely yes hey there. Liberty kitties time to take a quick time out to tell you about one of our long time supporters. His name is tyler coal it and he goes by the pseudonym crypto. Man That is wrapping name. That's right. He is a rapper as well. He does some awesome stuff and he recently produced a track called free. Ross and the Ross. In question is of course. Ross Ulbricht the creator of the Silk Road Marketplace. Who was sentenced to two life sentences for creating that marketplace? Yes it was a black it. Indeed of all sorts of things including drugs consensual transactions which. Libertarians are completely in favor of there. Were no victims and there were no crimes as far as we're concerned so please do check out the track free Ross. It was just released on Friday. March twenty seventh. The thirty fifth birthday of Rossall brick and one hundred percent of the proceeds will go to the Free Ross Foundation which is helping to free Ross and bring more awareness to his situation. Do check out the links I will put them all over at Lions of LIBERTY DOT COM Slash Free. Ross for ease of use could also pre-order it on Google play again one hundred percent of the proceeds of this track will be going to help reruns still wonder why in the Prison System. Persecu- in France and the victim parents to win very for pets away. Firm to degenerate set speaking about You mentioned the lockdown New York are probably going to be continuing a lot more and some other places that are gonNa make it difficult to hold this debate there but I just want to get a sense of what that's been like for you as someone who's lived in New York City all this time. I'm I grew up in Connecticut and not not far from New York City about an hour away. Had A Lotta family there and to me I mean what New York City the amazing thing about New York City was always the hustle and bustle all the different cultures. All the different people you meet Just being crammed together with all these people it always felt like that was part of sometimes the annoyance but also the charm of the city. So what does the city feel like right now? Essentially on lockdown. Well I think that You know the more I talk about that Mark PROBABLY GONNA PER LESSON. Maybe crime war because really president tragedy for me. I basically been a resident of New York City since nineteen sixty seven and I guess that means that. I've been arrested for fifty three years with one interruption. I my family to the country for about a year at one point working on a book but otherwise up. I am a New Yorker. And they're just as you imply a being a New Yorker that means that I do the opposite of social distancing you know again on crowded subways. I go to Broadway theaters. That are sold out and on top of that. Of course I run the Civil Forum a basement theatre with a bar. And they're too. We do the opposite of social distancing. We have not we meet we embrace. We shake hands. We do all those things that human beings like to do except to you we sort of take it to a new level a special level of intensity. We have restaurants. We have feeders. We have concerts all of those things that I partake of and I of course lack New Yorker. I love crowds and Was I don't like noise a little bit of an old fart that way. I walk into certain bars and the music is blaring the young people who are talking and that gets me a little bit much however I do love The crowds at the Broadway shows and at the concerts and of course especially the crowds at each sold out events at the Seoul form and so that defines New York and of course I mean I'm not I'm not. Somebody goes to sporting events but of course I could speak to those people as well clearly. Sporting events all about people sitting out of the closely yelling and screaming and Anagram occasionally spitting so clearly of those cultural events. Have got to go on. We've gotTA CONQUER THIS SOMEHOW. Because that's a way of life that many of us love and want to hold onto a and so it's been a tragedy for me to see. It'll all shutdown as a practical matter. My wife actually gotten a little bit freaked out by the. She's an artist she's she's been staying with my my stepson and stepdaughter in the Free State of New Hampshire although she's due to come back this weekend I myself don't usually venture out a I go over to the local whole foods and they are John mackey who's actually a backer of Myself Forum. John mackey who is a liberty and who is the chief executive officer of whole foods as a special rule that between seven and eight? It's only open to people over the age of sixty. They're actually COPS OUTSIDE. A maybe more cups that are necessary. Who Check your driver's license to make sure you were over. Sixty since I'm seventy five The the math is in very to too difficult for them to admit me a between the hour. Seven today to buy food so it's a sparsely attended and and you get out pretty quickly because again it's limited to people over sixty so that's been a real advantage for me and otherwise. I get alcohol delivered and on top of that. I do go to walgreens every once in a while to pick up a couple of medications but beyond that. I don't do too much but to have the advantage of a very large loft apartment that my wife is aimed for many years and have a big Y screen where I watch TV of. It's not a not a movie unless it's larger than life so I got to watch films in the evening on my larger-than-life screen so I don't have too much right to complain. Except of course I'm complaining like a New Yorker. Our way of life has been beaten down and and it's got to come back for the sake of our souls. Are you sensing any? I know grumblings of resistance to this lockdown New York City or there are people generally more captured by the at least in New York City. It seems fear maybe legitimate fear of the corona virus. Because that's said he has been hit so much harder than pretty much any anywhere else at least in the US or do you feel that people generally think well. This is what we have to do. Hopefully it'll it'll end soon and Problem being there's really no nobody out there politician doctor otherwise that has given any indication about any of this ending one way or another. Yeah well I mean I. I don't find that at any of the people interact with. I don't interact with many locals that they are especially rebellious I've been supporting Karnal example WHO's from the La on your previous Angela. And she has her. She was on one of your shows with with one of your host along with Brian who I'm sure we'll love being called an alternate hosts but I'm going to start calling him that look. Brian is a great guy but look no. Nobody is the fast. Talking Line of Liberty is obviously mark lamb. Lucky do you know it's just that title more and so what nothing Brian. Even though he's a good guy and he does a good job so he tried to get Tangier. That maybe doesn't talk as past. Okay Brian. I didn't mean to diminish you in any way if you're listening to this so getting back to the fact that there are rebels in La and no talk of rebelling against it in New York City. That's been unfortunate. You do of course talk about how we hit harder by really. The numbers are not that terrible it. It did hit it. Hit older people of course typically and seventy five year old except I don't count myself among the older types I've actually never in my life spent a night in hospital emergency so different things and then the last twenty five years. I haven't had a sick day. Although twelve years ago with the exception I should say about Afford Day Bowden the Monja which might have might even help and so I feel pretty sturdy and and not fearful and of course on top of that there is a real difference between the way it struck the different boroughs Manhattan has by far the lowest incidents any national of cases reported of deaths. The bulk of the cases are in the Bronx and Queens and then even enter a proportional to population Staten Island and and then even Brooklyn as a higher number of cases. But there too. It's IT'S A. It's clearly daunting to say that. Your city is the epicenter but by and large not most people are not dying from most people are not suffering from it. And so I think that even in New York City We have a right to have some of our rights back but certainly in the rest of the country we clearly do and I wrote in Angela. Mcardle if I lived in in La certainly join her demonstration but I guess I got the impression that that since. New York City is so filled with progressives and liberals who who tend to take the default position that if the government believes it must be right. The burden of proof is on us to prove it wrong whereas of course we libertarians. Take the position that default position of course is to default in favor of human freedom and my own belief. Is that if you place the burden of proof on those who would say that the lockdowns make sense than I believe that they really can't bear that burden of proof. A if your default position again is freedom because there is so much about the situation that is really unknown. So many doubts and wild cards are in the situation that it's really. I think impossible for him to prove that this great suppression which is clearly killing and maiming. The souls of so many people is justified. In fact. I'm working right now. On having another debate on The the Code Nineteen suppression. And this one is going to be between two credential epidemiologist which I think is rare. It appeared from my experience of canvassing. Then it's I've had difficulty getting them to come out of the closet and air their disagreements but it looks as though I have two very well credential epidemiologists who going to be willing to do sell and I hope to be announcing that debate in a day or two but of course the epidemiologists don't have a lock on the truth because clearly. They only have their knowledge their highly imperfect knowledge of their own discipline The ultimately of course. It's all about again. Putting the on proof of proof on those who justify the great suppression and recognizing all the cost to human life and mean and morbidity coming in from What great suppression as caused genius is why you're a great guest because you Introduced my segues for me. Because that's exactly what I WANNA get into you for the rest of the show about about a month or so ago you wrote an article over at a our good friends of ours over there. Titled Anatomy of the Great Depression. Which you've mentioned a couple times here. So let's dig into exactly what the meaning of that term is and why I don't know if you came up with it. I think I think you're the person I heard. Say I but what exactly is the great suppression as you've dubbed it here? I did come up with those mark by the phrase. I put into the language although it's only caught on at very partially on and because it's it's really just sort of play on language because I we have to ask. Is this downturn a recession or is it a depression and so I said well? Let's let's use the word Sean. But and that's why when my verbal ruination began and I realized. Well let's call it. Let's let's call it the great suppression because it wasn't brought a bell as I explained in the article by Would have the theories that I subscribe to Conventional Business Cycle Austrian business cycle theory. It wasn't brought about by investment and as I point out in the article Mari Rothbart who was one of the big Bro Defenders of Austrian business cycle theory of stipulated that they can beat downturns that are to play or downturns that due to government meddling of some kind or another and in this case of course is more than just meddling. It's government decree that the that that capitalist acts between consenting adults cannot happen and so that's a suppression of of of economic activity it isn't conventional business cycle development. It's not a conventional business cycle downturn. And I wanted to make that point clear and part of course to my Austrian friends because while they might claim that the US economy was headed for full doodoo conventional business cycle theory. That was a build up of bubbles Mala investment. That's a claim they can make but at least they have to acknowledge that it came suddenly in March because of the suppression by government. So that's why I call it the great suppression but beyond that. I've argued that when you look at least when you round up the usual suspects about bubbles and Mallon you find that. Despite what's been said about stock market a conventional price earnings ratios will well below the bubble levels of the year. Two Thousand Ninety eight ninety nine and two thousand where there was indeed a- bubble in the stock market and then we look at the housing there different ways of measuring the housing bubble but by the two ways that I threw out that a conventional and sound really has not been housing bubble. It is a bond bobble abandoned bubble in the sense that interest rates away too low and unsustainable in the long run and there is a bad young. What nine seventeen eighteen trillion dollars worth of treasury debt alone? And that's a bubble that could burst if interest rates suddenly sore suddenly hike from well below two percent like four now five percent. But I don't see it happen point. I've been pursuing for. The moment is to say that the awfulness of the grapes oppression at least as an odd silver lining in that once great suppression is lifted. We should see the beginnings of recovery now by that by now that's probably not a very unconventional view. On my part I certainly said and of course still strongly believable more that it's not going to be what's called a v-shaped recovery recovery is of course following the pattern of Avi y- suddenly plunges and then with the same force it rises to the so that it shapes. Avi But I think it's going to be a very slow recovery. And of course a lots of people have echoed that you point as well. The the plunge in this in the kind quarter is going to be followed by some Some pickup in the in the In the third quarter and in the fourth quarter and but it probably won't be until the first or second quarter of next year that we can even hope to be back to the economic level of fourth quarter two thousand Fourth Quarter Twenty nineteen. So it's going to be a sudden implying and it's very slow. Recovery and unemployment rate is likely to remain in double digit levels. On top of that is being impeded by disincentives from government. No notoriously the six hundred dollars extra per week that people on unemployment insurance receiving as mentioned that that the majority of people are receiving an unemployment insurance check of an excess of nine hundred dollars a week which is more than many other former employers. Could pay them so they're likely not to want to go back to work until that six hundred dollars runs out and that's not going to be until early August. Let's hope that's hope at least that in this election year The government isn't pressured to renew that six hundred dollars. I don't begrudge their money by. I do think it's unfortunate that They're GONNA have disincentives to go back to work. I don't blame them but I do. Think that the government could have another policy. If then why did the six hundred dollars subsidy? It could have also applied it to people who go back to the plenty could have been many other professional plans to pursue that but again to recap It is a great suppression. It's happened suddenly. It's it's happened because of the government clamped down a and done but at least this hopeful signs that at least outside New York parts of the economy are beginning to reopen. And so I think that will climb out of it and again. Of course the prescriptive sense. I believe that setting aside New York City which is more debatable. But even there I would argue that great suppression was never a prudent plan. A once you consider all of the securities especially the point about herd immunity the point that herd immunity really ultimately the way to lick this problem herd immunity refers to the idea that a majority of people are infected cause in this case the majority of mildly infected and a mildly infected Population means that they develop immunity and then they can't infect each other and meanwhile we protect those with the resources that government was going to use could have been allocated justin targeted to protecting the elderly and protecting audio piece. People are otherwise frail and susceptible to dying from the Kafelnikov in nineteen the weird and crazy policies were pursued by governor Cuomo of New York State. He actually required that nursing homes except old people who have the virus and that of course is the reason why I gather that more than half. The deaths have occurred in In nursing homes among people. Of course I speak a of being old. Even though I'm seventy five and for some weird reason I don't put myself in that category. Since as mentioned I seem to have a more energy than most 75-year-olds erodes and has mentioned I've never even spent a night in hospital. Gene went one thing. I hear a lot in the media. When they're reporting the economic problems the reporting unemployment numbers and that sort of thing you often was to see the headline that says due to cove in one thousand nine hundred due to corona virus when in reality as described here most of the economic destruction is coming from the response. The government responds to the lockdowns. And that sort of thing. I am curious though because a lot of people will argue like we still have this virus. Even if there weren't lockdowns they're still be companies responding. There would still be people out of work due to the virus itself. So I'm curious. What do you think this contraction or these problems would look like if the government wasn't responding but there was just a virus. The virus at the free market was dealing with the NBA. Shut itself down before the government did anything. Major League Baseball shut itself down before government did anything so clearly there would still be economic problems related to this Even if the government was hands off so I was kind of curious what you think that would look like. Government wasn't responding with such a heavy hand and using the only thing that has at its disposal was which is of course the use the force that of course is a key question in a very fair one and certainly we can look to places like Japan and Sweden where unemployment is lower. Because they had. They didn't really didn't have a as you know. It didn't have a very uh severe lockdown although of course they've had a great deal as you indicate a great deal of voluntary a withdrawal up from From the from the marketplace. So that certainly would have happened but a difficult for me to put a number on it. I I will say however. I do think that the unemployment rate would have been much lower than officially i. Why because clearly a lot of just for starters could use the most notorious case the drive ins probably would have found work arounds the drive in movie theaters now. Of course they're gonNA play a whole lot of people but there are a good example of how the government's hand didn't even spare the three hundred drive in movie theaters we have in this country and I- interestingly when when it was written about were checking. Well you know people are going drive. Movies do have to use the bathroom. And then there's the food concession stand but clearly people talk that way don't allow the possibility that that businesses can find work arounds. That that if you just leave it to the marketplace businesses that do want to continue to operate might have found ways of doing so and clearly restaurants have space people far apart for part Again obviously the drive in movie theaters would function. Maybe the multiplexes had social distancing would have had would have made sure that they ordered masks. Would've been all kinds of attempts to deal with the problem and and therefore we would have had a much happier outcome. Just I want to mention one interesting thing about the soaring unemployment rate of interestingly virtually all cases I was like ninety percent of the increase in unemployment was due to a very unique bit of reporting the breakdown of the unemployment rate includes the reason why you just got unemployed and usually the reason is that there was a that you know you lost your job because the the the business went bankrupt because he got fired. Because you're permanently laid off but then there's another reason that that's occasionally given which is that. It's a temporary layoff that you would tell you lost your job because of a temporary layoff will in this case uniquely more than ninety percent of the people who lost their jobs gave the reason that they were told. It was a temporary layoff now. Of course that's part and parcel of the whole idea of the great suppression that once. You lift the lockdown than those jobs can come back but of course the question is how temporary is going to be and when will those jobs come back but again to go back to your question. Clearly we do find that people were going to work. In Japan. People work have been going to work in Sweden and certainly now that the warm weather is coming and and and in New York City in particular a lotta streets of being roped off restaurants could be given wide latitude to To serve people outside to have to to take over the sidewalks but can I don't know if that's even being discussed in New York City? So can I believe that That while would have been a slow down of course a severe slowdown in economic activity. That would have been voluntary. Certainly wouldn't would not have been anything quite like We get from the lockdown. Because again a week we can't minimize human in finding work arounds for different problems of this kind looking ahead at the recovery. As you've mentioned you said You you do believe that there will be a recovery once these restrictions are lifted. I'm curious how you picture that really playing out. You mentioned is not going to be V. it's not just GonNa she right-back because there's there's so many small businesses that I'm already seeing the local level and just stories. I've heard that are just permanently. Shuttering doors they. They've already lost too much business. They already had maybe a really small margins and they just have to close now. Because there's there's nothing left so I'm curious how you see the long term consequences of maybe so many small businesses going under maybe people going into debt or not being able to pay their bills even when they get their jobs back. Still having to deal with some of those problems. But I'm also curious how you see the tie in all of this new debt or new money. I'm not even sure entirely sure. Exactly how financing all of these stimulants and relief bills. But there's already been think a couple of them and there's a couple more on the table that include you know more cash payments to American citizens more debt Mormon money printing. How do you see all of that affecting the recovery as well? Well taking your indeed. You just answer your question how they finance again. That's how good I am saying mark. That's how good I am answering questions through money. Printing exactly what? They are the customer for. They they they don't actually print it unless of course it you want an actual Bills in actual paper money now but they they created electronically and there's trillions of dollars of new money that's being created and that dumb and that's of course trillions of dollars of debt. That's being put on the books mainly of the US treasury and that deer again. I I think is it will be possible for the government to kick the proverbial can down the road. I don't see a real disaster occurring from that huge pile of debt. In the next few years I do see that it hastens the day when they will be a bill of reckoning for the Congressional Budget. Office has predicted that the US economy could face a fiscal crisis in about fifteen years from the pilot of that. And so that that day of reckoning probably is GonNa will of course definitely occur several years sooner than originally forecast because of the several trillion that piling up. I believe that it's likely that low interest rates or the zero interstates almost in certain cases are going to be maintained because again when you when you look at. Us Treasury debt. You'll have to ask. Well compare it. With what as an investment compare it with the rest of the world well for the rest of the world? Us Treasury debt still looks like a safe haven and so I believe that the US A- government is going to continue to lead the same charmed life that it's been leading for the last ten years in piling up debt. But I don't see how that's going to last forever as mentioned I do believe that again. I I like to cite the neutral. The relatively neutral bipartisan Congressional Budget. Office a bunch of long's who've been warning for years that this pilot of debt brenning faster than the increase in gross domestic product is unsustainable and again this this recent pile of several trillion more on top of that to the printing of money only hastens that day but as mentioned. I don't see it occurring over the next few years. I'm looking more at at at at at the next decade or so in terms of that day of reckoning but in terms of the the money supply expanding their too. I don't believe again I'm sounding like a Pollyanna. I don't believe that. It's going to cause double digit price. Inflation at the circumstances are not quite right for that. We we did have report. That price is of course plummeted. An April already having to do with the measurement of the consumer price index which showed a plummeting prices partly of much of it of course because of energy but food prices rose but jut substantially but virtually all other prices fell and. I don't believe that a price inflation can can start when you already have a lot of slack in the economy so I don't see that happening either but getting to the awful destruction of small businesses Your other the other part of your question. Many of them of course are not going to come back. And but then but then larger businesses will expand. Obviously as you perhaps now Amazon which you who stock has been rising which is sort of like become this sort of nanny to to the country basically bent on providing us with food and virtually anything we want delivered a not only expanded by a hundred thousand expanded staffed by one hundred thousand but is now bent employed another seventy five thousand people. Because there's so much delivery now people are getting jobs. People who drove were getting jobs delivering stuff to people so there there is the US economy and the Labor markets are very flexible if allowed to operate and so there will be a fairly in many cases of very rapid resorting. Now coming back to your question I mourn the death of the many of those stalwart small businesses that were struggling to get off the ground and might have gotten off the ground had the government. Not Lock them down. Maybe a certain restaurants could have survived. Had they at Lourdes people to them. I mean again actually getting back to your question. I believe that young people might have gone to some to many of these bars and restaurants and not feared they called the Coq au Vin nineteen As indeed most them should not be fearing lots of other things that young people can die off probably probably young people will die over the next year or so of far more from accidents and other things that young people normally diet and from covert nineteen and so those young people could have gone to those restaurants in bars without fear. Older people like myself might have stayed away so all of those things could have been sorted out but didn't and and so many of those small businesses are going under and at but but again this remarkable resilience on the part of entrepreneurs and small business people in this in in the US. At least an among Americans at some of those people are probably going to start new businesses. Again I don't mean to mitigate the tragedy apologize and and minimize it by saying it's not tragic but I believe that that in a year or two small business formation will resume and even some of those people who got badly scarred by the loss of their businesses will be coming back. I'm curious if you think there will be certain geographic areas that fare better at the end of the day whether it is because a remote work might become more common and perhaps that will see people fleeing cities to places that are much cheaper if they can just remark work remotely at the same time. I know where I call home in Los Angeles Sometimes Anyway they they`re. They're saying they're going to extend this lockdown for three months right now and and who even knows if they're going to extend it beyond that and the conversation seems to have completely changed from from flattening the curve to lead the way the mayor of Los Angeles and the Governor of California both speak at now it's basically become. We can't unlock the economy until no one could get the virus ever again so which is obviously nothing something that could never happen so it feels like at some areas. May and maybe it's just because the topic has become so politicized you know if trump says to open up and they have to say not to open up. But I'm just curious if you see certain geographic areas whether it's due to politics or just natural affects you might see from more remote work that fare better and coming back sooner whereas other areas might might be in a worse position. Yeah well you a little bit more about La than I do. Because I foolishly Tetteh today mcardle is get away but I know that's naive. The supports not as strong as we might. We might want to believe are at least a fiery activists that are out there speaking speaking out about. It's the try hoke expects I do I. I will stick back first of all say I believe that a while the politicians are probably GonNa try to take the stance that that they wanna be conservative and save lives and stick with a what they know best. Which is suppressing people that eventually they'll have to succumb sooner or later. Probably sooner rather than later they're going to have to back off and and even la they won't get their way and they they will probably have an out. They'll say well they don't allowing it under protest a morning. It could be a problem. Of course many of course democratic politicians are holding onto this idea because they are anti trump and I'm in many ways enter trump myself but I do think that they the lockdown should be lifted. So can at festival answering your general question. I do believe that That that the lockdown is going to be lifted even in areas aware politicians are saying. Well we can't lift it unless we have a vaccine or must we do something that that is not likely to happen in your term. I think the lockdown will be loosened. But getting to your other questions you think. Do you think that is because just because there will be so it'll become so much public anxiety or public support for opening up just because people do have to work at some point that they're not gonna be able to resist the the the public sentiment if they want to even keep their jobs or you know not have right exactly? That is way I feel at of course that could be just me talking and maybe just you talking walk because we we tend to think that other people feel as we do by But but clearly it is a matter certainly by the if the if the unemployment in joint supplement doesn't last through August ban there'll be a huge Groundswell of protest among unions in particular workers in general to get their jobs back and so and again. I think that Americans generally are feisty and independent people and so can I think that the tide is is going to be too great for most politicians to resist a clearly trump is going to be in Republicans while Republicans. Lisa support trump a arcade for that as well. So they'll have some allies In government and so. I think that there will be well. Of course it will happen. It will happen right away. It's going to happen over the next few months but I think that it will happen by and large in the economy but getting back to your point but they will still be plenty of businesses. That will not be able to come back. And that's why again as measured the recovery is going to be very slow so that's my hope and And and My hope that that that is translated into a forecast about how people going to feel but engine the other part of your question your but the differential effects there's for me the big unknown and I'd have to duck. Your question is how will New York City comeback a New York City in other places sporting events of the again? I actually just getting circling back for the moment. When you think about all of those people who want to go to of sports stadiums to see a major events that kind difficult to believe that you can really tell them that. That's gone that the excitement of going to a football game. It will never happen again along. That won't happen in in the near future. But but with respect to how we resuscitate on this city how you allow the city's cultural events to happen. I noticed that announcement was that way is shutdown until at least two Labor Day and may be further than that. Maybe it will be beyond that. I believe that something has got to happen bit. And of course that's of course. Maybe the Vegas Statement I made to this interview. It's it's simply unimaginable that that the excitement of cities which of course not everybody who craves but even suburban is of course do want to go to a theater. Even suburbanites do WanNa go to restaurants and bars and so again I didn't mean to diminish suburbanites even people live in the country like to do those things as well and so those things have got to come back. We've got to find work around and prayer. May well be that. The only solution will be ultimately to protect the elderly and let the rest of US take our chance with community a conquer the virus through the in the way that we've conquered all viruses the viruses don't go away. We simply develop herd immunity to them so that may be the solution but REAC city could have problems. There are major major businesses. That profoundly said that they aren't necessarily the call back their workers it that the interesting wildcard is the part that approximately thirty six percent of the workforce force who are knowledge workers who can work off site and is now inclination on the part of businesses in New York to say that they can permanently do sell so a lot of office space is GonNa go unused now 'cause a I don't necessarily object to that at office. Space could be converted to housing but but then of course a number of people knowledge workers who no longer have to live in the city could move out and is already a bit of a boom in people and the purchase of a rental rather of single family homes. A lot of inventory health in single family homes and a lot of that inventory now is being rented at as people begin to move out of the city my mother. My wife is a landlord landlady and landlord alone. Whether I I work with her. She owns a building six apartments. A all of those people in knowledge workers. They've been paying their rent. We have a restaurant in the end. The ground floor and we charging them only half the usual rent that doing take out so of course we want to work with them. Landlords usually do wanna work with tenants to day. You have a good tenant you wanNA keep that tenant and be reasonable in terms of the ramping charge. But I've and all of those knowledge workers have been paying the rent a because they're able to keep their jobs but again. I see the potential for cities to be less popular on the other hand again. I'm doing on the that. That that Routine that Harry Truman President. Harry Truman objected to give me a one handed. Economists the on the one hand on the other hand the the nine eleven tobacco obstruction the World Trade Center towers also a motivator of a prognosticators to project that cities were going to become less popular in particular. New York. City was going to become popular for that. Prediction turned out to be wrong. I do believe that something will happen. Although Justin acknowledged the force of your question certainly cities where people congregate with so much of what the city? What what the location is all about is is the reverse of social distancing those those regions. Are these up for grabs in terms of possibly resorting the way the economy of is structured may be at least some net migration to the outlying areas to the suburbs to the excerpts and to the countryside right. I've I've always been a steady person myself somewhat. I mean I've lived both in the suburbs and the city but the city is the the and bustle Having a lot of restaurants to having a lot of things to do that's always been part of something I loved about living in Los Angeles and but even even I am reconsidering at this point. Just to maybe. It's maybe it's more of a gut reaction to the to the over the top response of our local government there but even I'm reconsidering a somewhat of a different life at as point so we shall see we shall see how things go mark. I'm stuck I'm so in other Woody Allen sitting at home and I'm like to visit I grew up in the suburbs. I don't know disdain. The suburbs chassis your turn. I Miss I miss being able to chuckle. Broiling lay used to do it on a terrace. I in a call by owned midtown in upper side rather a but I do feel that in well you of course. A way of speaking for asserting of people that clearly. You're more typical. People who liked the city like like the urban life on the other hand. You could see that you might be open to alternatives. I if given the new circumstances so maybe that's going to happen. We'll say we shall see either way Gina. Thank you for joining us today. I I gotTa Say. Your outlook is actually one of the Rosier takes. I've heard from you're listening to the heartland newsfeed radio network line. Hartland NEWSFEED DOT COM. This stream is supported by advertises and contributions by follow us on facebook twitter and Instagram's service doing his cast for maybe eighteen twenty twenty. I'm Mike Clifford some Republican lawmakers raising objections now to president trump's decision to fire State Department Inspector General Steve Lennox that from MSN. Mr Trump a Friday night letter to congressional officials said he was removing Lennox in thirty days. Because he no longer had confidence in him senator. Susan Collins of Maine responded on twitter. The president has not provided the kind of justification for the removal of Ajilon Lennick as required by law M. S. N. reports at Senator Chuck. Grassley of Iowa agreed. He said the Congress requires written reasons. Represented Elliot Ingle. The Chairman of the House. Foreign Affairs Committee has said the department. Inspector General's Office had opened a probe into secretary of state. Mike Pompeo the House of Representatives has approved the next round of Corona Virus Relief and our Eric takeoff reports. Some such a work as Washington state are watching closely. Jose is a pair educator for English language learners in Vancouver and a member of the public school employees of Washington Service Employees International Union local nineteen forty eight. He says access to sick leave. An protections for workers are crucial permanent. Paid sick days and family just means expanding the healthcare coverage for uninsured making so that there's p. p. for all our central workers the trillion dollar. Heroes Act passed last week extends paid leave protections from Congress's last stimulus package as you want the bill to provide increased wages so essential workers received time and a half pay meantime children's groups speaking out against billions of dollars in state budget cuts being proposed in. California say programs that benefit kids should be a priority ten lampert who heads the group children now says because of child care. Preschool and K through twelve would be devastating for kids especially in lower income families. It basically taking kids. Who weren't getting the support they needed before this cat and really exacerbating these disparities K. Through twelve is slated for nineteen billion dollar cut over the next two years. California housing having its predictive massive wave of evictions and foreclosures once a moratorium is lifted enlist states like Michigan put together a comprehensive program to assist families that are thrown out of work by the in nineteen crisis. Michigan is home to more than two point. Five million renters and many are suffering. Kirsten Elliott with the community housing network in southeastern Michigan says. The money can't come fast enough sooner. We can get Ronald Systems for those that can't make the run or make their mortgage payments and better so that we are able to avoid. Having mass amount of people pushed into homeless now. The state has received more than one hundred fifty two million and cares act funds so far and is working to shovel them out the door. I'm Suzanne Potter. This is PMS group in Idaho registering young people now to vote wants to motivate them to the polls. What the vote. Idaho has registered more than five thousand. Eighteen to twenty five year olds in Boise. The CO founder of the group is Nancy Viana. But we tried to bring it home to them down to special things that would affect them in their life. Yuna says that might be access to public lands or the minimum wage for Young People. Entering THE WORKFORCE NOT. Kodo leaders want to find a new owner for the state's largest coal fired power plant which is slated to close in twenty twenty environmental groups. Say That's the wrong way to go. Here's Mike Mullen. Minnesota-based Great River Energy has announced. It will close the coal creek station citing troubling marketplace for Coal Energy Governor. Doug Burgum calls with the state's most efficient and updated coal plant saying he liked to preserve the two hundred and sixty jobs there. Gene words of the Dakota Resource Council says the best way to do that is to set up the site for reclamation and not keep it running I think some of those workers that are doing the mining right now could also speed up the reclamation. There's a lot of dirt that has to be moved removed in a lot of Soil to be regenerated too so that produces as much as it did before where it's estimates that reclamation jobs could last for several years. A recent study of a similar debate in Montana where the coaster power plant is being phased out found a robust cleanup. There would create hundreds of good paying jobs and permanently improve local groundwater and finally lattice tells us that conservation group stepping back into the fray to stop the latest proposal by the Forest Service to allow logging a more than three hundred thousand acres and bulldozing six hundred miles of new roads in the medicine. Bow National Forest located in southern Wyoming. Connie Wilbert with the Sierra Clubs Wyoming Chapter says the Forest Service's own project documents estimates significant long term term negative impacts from carving out roads and clear cutting some ninety five thousand acres the impacts on while life habitat recreational uses on water quality from increased erosion all of those kind of impacts. They admit could last as long as fifty years. A similar proposal by the Forest Service last year was stalled after conservation groups filed official objections and the Center for Biological Diversity. The Sierra Club and wild earth guardians if filed a second round of objections over the new proposal projected to cost. Us Tax payers nearly two hundred fifty million dollars. The Forest Service says the revised plan limits. Open roads to seventy five miles at any given time and contends that thinning forests increases resilience and reduces wildfire risk from beetle outbreaks. This is my Clifford. Thanks for start you week with public news service. We are member and we're listening to support and online at public new service DOT. Org Oh my gosh he's fine. Rick tittle brings home the Bacon prize it up in a pan and then he eats it ricky in his official. Thank you for that and welcome back to the show. One eight hundred eight seven eight play. It's never been more stupid and politics and history of the United States in the history of the United States. It's never been more stupid and so let's talk about sports. That's what it's all about baby. Hell Yeah let's get into football and the basketball and whenever I talk football. Start talking with the southern accent. I remember when I was learning football. You have these hot key terms that you yell out and if we got an interception high school we would. Y'All aggie came from Texas am aggie. Why are we on Angi? And then we would run the Oklahoma Florida to all these different is. They originated down sales. Surely do my friend who played football at CAL said. They played at Tennessee and the their knoxville Tennessee which is supposed to be an absolute crap hall of the town. I will not judge it. Maybe we'll send Mo Mandel down there with his small town throwdown show on discovery but He said the fans were throwing ice down at the cow players and like really Hamad in big chunks nothing to sneeze at a starting to hurt and so there are some of them. Smokybear camp pain hat looking state troopers and he said. There's people thrown ice that in the KNOXVILLE COP said ally suggests you get out of the way that type of thing what am I talking about? How talking about sports on how it got to that but we are. There's nothing else worth talking about when you think about. How just show everything politically and everyone involved as a joke? Let's talk about the joke of sports. One eight hundred eight seven eight play. One eight hundred seventy seven five two nine getting it heard girl tune in. I heart radio APP stitcher out American forces radio network worldwide exporter of our troops going to great job states day for proud of you and she are in Digital Cable Radio Network challenging and your cable provider. I'm rectal come comeback. We are the debt destroyer network. Any debt you have credit card tends student loan debt. Call now for Free Information. That helps you destroy your debt. It's great advice plus when you make this free call now. We have debt destroyer experts. Ready to help they can show you how to destroy death and get your life back on track. Debt problems don't have to be overwhelming. You could live stress-free and debt free credit cards medical bills. Irs Tax problems even student loan debt. Learn about free programs offered by the Credit Card Companies Hospitals. And even the government that can help slash your debt call deck destroyer now for free information call now eight seven seven three six zero four zero two eight seven seven three six zero zero four zero two eight seven seven. Three six zero zero four zero two. That's eight seven seven. Three six zero zero four zero two at twenty eight. I'd struggled with opiate and Meth addiction for twelve years. I didn't said things that the sober me never would have done one day. I realized I was not invincible. Was Not exempt. One friend told me about the replacement they gave me the tools I needed to get sober and all it took was one phone call elite. Rehab can help you start to break your addiction problem and get sober in as little as seven days and we'll work with your insurance provider to help cover the costs. Plus we have traveled assistance programs to get you here by plane or train. Make this free call right now to learn more eight hundred four zero three five nine one to eight hundred four zero three five nine one to eight hundred four zero three five nine one two. That's eight hundred. Four zero three fifty nine twelve. Have you written a book? You can become a published author with durins publishing. The Nation's oldest publishing services company countless authors have trusted dorrance for nearly a hundred years to bring their book to the market are professional team will editor text design your book pages and create an appealing eye-catching custom cover plus our authors benefit from Custom Book Promotion Marketing Campaign. That makes your book available where people buy books like Amazon and brick and mortar bookstores. So make this free call right now to claim your free author's Guida publishing don't wait another day take one step closer to realizing your dream of becoming a published author and seeing your name in print. You've already written a book so the next thing to do is make this free call right now to doorns publishing and get your free guide to publishing call right now. Eight hundred four eight five six zero zero three eight hundred four eight five six zero zero three. That's eight hundred. Four eight five six zero zero three hour. Two simulating sports. Do you thought it couldn't get any better outer rick. It'll is back. He's so great. I can't believe how awesome is more sports talk yes get any better rich analysts back. He's so great. I can't believe how awesome he is more sports talk. Yes our two of titillating sports to check me out. Yo You got welcome back to the show with you. One eight hundred eight seven a play if you'd like to participate in the coast to coast proceedings. Here your honor. I never saw space jam. So I know it's Michael Jordan and Bugs Bunny vs aliens or something and murder talking about this on ninety five seven and I also said that I had never seen the mighty ducks and people pulled over by the side of the road and they wanted an explanation like they didn't accept it was like saying I never seen the wizard of Oz. I never seen Star Wars. The explanation is when these movies came out. I was in my thirties. Why would I see a cartoon? Michael Jordan Bugs Bunny movie in My thirties. I mean I guess if I'm switching channels some night but to go to a movie theater I just not big into. It's just remember Jordan was stuffed down our throat. Every where you looked you saw Michael Jordan every commercial everything every billboard every cereal boxes Michael Jordan. We had plenty of Michael Jordan and it wasn't even Mel Blanc some copycat bugs Daffy guy and then the mighty ducks once again. I'm in my thirties. Why do I see a kid hockey? I mean Yeah Kids hockey movie now that being said I did see kicking and screaming which a kid soccer movie in my thirties. Because there's Will Ferrell on Mike Ditka and it was hilarious. It was a comedy sell for the people who just can't get over the fact that I'd never seen space jam much less space jam to which is I think coming out. Maybe it's out now. I think it's coming up with Steph currys and I think I would have heard of it if it had been out but Anyway getting into some more things about the last dance there's conspiracy about Michael Jordan. Being poisoned in Utah by the pizza guys is episode nine and it was the flu game and as we found out it wasn't the flu game it was the food poisoning game. That was the name given to Jordan's amazing game. Five performance swear he was a shell of himself and he was sweating bullets and he just looked awful and then the second half he just turned into Mike again but as they said and he was with his best buddy Georgia was also part of his entourage and he was with the trainer who was always with him and they. It was three o'clock in the morning and he said he was or it was before three in the morning but they tell everything closed and and Salt Lake City. I can believe everything was closed. The State New York City New York City pace picante sauce and so one pizza place was open and only Jordan nate the pizza. Some people said he hit the whole pizza himself. I didn't get that I got it only. He wanted some and so then he got a call the trainer at three. Am saying come to my room. And he found him in the fetal position absolutely shaking and and of course twitter goes nuts with that. But if you eat any pizza delivered to you late night you're bound. I know to get something but five guys showed up at the door to deliver so he definitely ordered it in the name of Michael Jordan which I find hard to believe in stupid but I guess it's true because five guys which is usually a hamburger place from New York. Fog goes but five guys showed up for. It's funny because in Nineteen Ninety nine hundred ninety Liverpool was in the FA Cup final. And we were going to be showing it on my network and the led Zeppelin or maybe it wasn't let's up. It was just Robert Plant. Robert Plant was in San Francisco and he got a request because the game was going to be early in the morning. He wanted somebody at Sports Channel to tape it and then bring it over to his hotel at eleven. Am and so they go rick and you make sure to tape it and I go absolutely so I taped the FA Cup final on vhs. While we were airing unclear not wearing it and then I thought well I guess at some point if somebody can cover me. I'm going to have to run this over to Robert Plant and that'll be a thrill for me because I said a girl who worked in our corporate office across the hall. She came in and it's funny because I only ever saw her business attire. Like an tailored suits. She showed up at ten thirty in the morning. She was wearing ripped. Fishnet nylons high heels miniskirt leather jacket. Her hair was a huge red lipstick. She said I'm bringing this to up and they WANNA say slutty. That's me but she showed up in this like total hardcore rocker. Girl Fan Groupie outfit so I guess she thought if I'm going to the hotel room I might as well look like a fan but anyway that was delivered so five guys showed up to give Jordan pizza and it made him sick. And that's theory. Was He poisoned. I know Tottenham had a chance to get into Europe some years ago and they played out West Ham and they ate at a restaurant As a team next to Upton Park before the game and they all had lasagna and they all got food poisoning and they lost and they thought that they had been scuppered. It was the food poisoning game and West Ham. Did it on purpose. Made them all sick. But Hello YOU'RE IN UTAH. I'm Michael Jordan. I would like to order a pizza. How do you make somebody sick? Everybody spit in it. Everybody coughing and I don't know but it's gross now Vernon Maxwell former. Nba Star tweeted out last night. I always made it a point to never eat whenever played in Utah for that. Very reason Michael. Wow of course fans have fun with it. Guy Says someone has been poisoning. The Knicks Pizza for twenty one years. And then of course memes of guys showing up at the door. And it's you know the the aliens from Space Jammer Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Some people had pictures of what the pizza actually look black. And it's some it's some gross stuff. There's no doubt about it so but it also and also goes to say that a lot of towns they shut down and they roll up their sidewalks when it gets too late. And I'll tell you what if you WanNa make fun of Salt Lake City. You know a city. That's that's like that is Downtown San Francisco when I first started working in downtown San Francisco. Nobody live there. Why would you live there? It's all offices but now a lot of people none of them families but a lot of people with cash they live in high-rises and I tried to think what in the hell is. Twenty four hours they can get. That's not in the Richmond or in the Sun said in the mission you know even North beach kind of shuts down a little bit but in the old days. The only thing you could get delivered was Pizza unless you're you know if you're in Manhattan you could get Chinese food. What have you? But there's no door dash or posts mates. I invented post. Its there was no grub hub or caviar. Look I thought my head I just named four of them to bring you that stuff so he got the pizza and then he got sick. When I was in New York a couple of years ago I went to this place called. Roberta's famous pizza place in a not very good area of Brooklyn called Bushwick right in the middle of the projects and it was so pretentious. That door had no sign off graffiti. You just walked into this. Graffiti Hellhole and everyone in there that worked there was pierced and had dyed hair. And TAT's and they you know they service with a frown. It was the worst pizza ever had in my life this true PPC crap or anchovy like one show on it and then at to cooperstown. I get there. It's knowing my hotel golf and the next day I order pizza from Cooperstown Pizza Guy. Brings it delicious absolutely delicious? My point is is that you never know what the hell you're going to get paid forty dollars for that little pizza. Roberta's still the worst pizza I've ever had and all you have to go to Roberta's with Paris Hilton and Kim Kardashian Utah. Pizza was it poisoned. I doubt it was poison. I think it was just Utah Pizza. Bill Annoying Nazis. I Hate Illinois Nolte's on sports pilot. I'm ready to it'll come on. Do you owe ten thousand dollars or more on at least two federal student loans. Then you may qualify for new programs offered by the Department of Education. These programs can reduce your interest lower your payments and possibly qualify you for loan forgiveness if you have ten thousand dollars or more and at least two federal student loans and currently not in school you may qualify for one of these programs. Call now to check your eligibility student. Loan advisors are standing by to help you determine if you qualify for these new programs. They can help you reduce your interest. Lower your payment and even forgive a portion of your student loan debt take control of your financial future. Make this free five minute. Free CALL NOW to nationwide student loans and learn how you can reduce your student loan debt. Eight hundred four three nine seven eight five one eight hundred four three nine seven eight five one eight hundred four three nine seven eight five one eight hundred four three nine seven eight five one. I'm going to tell you how you can get real healthcare for as little as six dollars a day. Yes now you can get affordable health care for you and your family immediately and save as much as fifty percent of your current monthly healthcare payments are. Plans are perfect for people that are self employed. Can't afford health benefits where they were or just WANNA pay less for their current healthcare and coverage is guaranteed regardless of your medical condition. We even offer some of the new Christian faith based health benefits. Save up to fifty percent on your family's healthcare make a free call now. There are no contracts and we give you a ten date. Money-back trial period called provision enrollment. Right now for your risk-free guaranteed health insurance quote starting at six dollars a day. Eight hundred four seven two five one four five eight hundred four seven two five one four five. That's eight hundred four seven to fifty one forty five. Are you over fifty? Would you like to get up to thirty three percents more income in retirement? Call now for this free book. Annuity do's and don'ts for baby boomers from a leading financial firm on maximizing your income in retirement. That's right free. This free book reveals little known truths about annuity in simple to understand terms. That will help. You make the right choices before buying an annuity. And it's free as a bonus will also throw in a free annuity Rafe report summarizing the rights and benefits from financially strong insurers. That's right annuity. Do's and don'ts for baby boomers and annuity rate report. Both absolutely free for calling today. Eight hundred seven two zero five nine seven one eight hundred seven two zero five nine seven one eight hundred seven two zero five nine seven one. That's eight hundred. Seven two zero fifty nine seventy one producers have the appropriate licenses for the products they offer increased income is possible using strategy suited to your goals and may require by multiple annuities and holding them full-term. Now you will always triumph two Rick tittle always goes commando command of I tell. Ya Commander what is going on one? Eight hundred eight seven eight play. Who poison the pizza and Salt Lake City? Who Shop Aspera? What the little bow as horrible song. That's one of the Renaissance Fair Song. So let's not talk about that one. Eight hundred eight seven eight place as we said Jerry REINSDORF. He didn't WANNA pay everybody right. He didn't WANNA pay everybody and Krause said we can't pay. Everybody said it would have been suicide to keep everybody together. Like oh you idiot. It's ridiculous how can you go into a rebuild? You're still rebuilding. You Got Derek. Girls for a couple games. Now there's one thing you gotta remember. The ninety nine lockout shortened. The season only fifty games the players only got prorated portions of their salaries. But if you look at it this Jerry. Reinsdorf have a point. Here's an idea have appoint it makes it so much more interesting for the listener as it does but if you look at the roster let's say you go into nineteen ninety nine seven players maybe survive the purge. Maybe they don't. But Ron Harper was making over five million. Cu coach made four and a half million Randy Brown. One point. Three WINNINGTON million Keith booth. Who six hundred and eighty thousand rusty larue. Three hundred and fifty thousand Dickey Simpkins member him Dickey Simpkins like say it. Sin Skin thicky Simpson. But then they had their first round. Pick Corey Benjamin. Who made a half a million? That means there's eight guys with about over fourteen million all right so there's fourteen million. Now you bring back Jordan. The nine hundred ninety nine. Cba included the League's first ever limitation on individual salaries players who had at least ten years of MBA experience would be limited in new contracts to a first year salary of thirty five percent of the CAP or fourteen million dollars. Whichever was higher those are laughable numbers in the face of Jordan's prior salaries Jordan had negotiated his past deals without maximum sorry plays and took advantage of it by signing two of the biggest contracts in the history of professional sports if you look adjusted for inflation because Jordan made thirty million ninety six ninety seven and thirty three million for ninety seven ninety eight. Both of those numbers were larger than the CAP itself which was only twenty six point. Nine at the time of Jordan's second retirement now that's inflated for adjustment in inflation by Jordan's peers. They kind of ensure that players of his caliber would not be subjected to those cuts because they grandfathered a clause into the ninety nine CBA that allowed players who previous salaries exceeded the Max. Turn up to one hundred and five percent of their earnings so that would put Jordan at about thirty four point seven million to put the absurdity of that contract into perspective no. Nba Player earned an actual salary higher than that until last year. So if you adjust that figure for revenue inflation they said that thirty four point seven million would be equivalent of today one hundred and twenty six point five million dollars for the season for a player to actually earn that much in the first avenue. Deal the CAP would have to balloon in today's money to about three hundred seventy million so no player will ever come close to Jordan's earnings. It's just not going to happen right now. That's MJ now. We look at Pippen. Because let's say okay. So that makes nine guys so as the Bulls. You know if you lose. Let's say six meaningful free agents. I mean five of them. I think are pretty easy to calculate Luc. Longley signed a five year. Thirty million dollar deal. What the sons and a sign and Trade Steve. Kerr signed a five-year eleven million dollar deal with San Antonio Judd Bush. Laura got a two year deal two million with the Pistons. Dennis Rodman got one year. One million with the Lakers Scott. Burrell got one year one million with the New Jersey Nets but as I said the final free agent is more complicated. Because his name and Scottie Pippen and pippen left ables to seek long-term financial security which is interesting. Because that's what he wanted when he signed that seven year deal and he did get it you know. According to you and me he got it. But according to one of the best players of his generation he did not. There was so much bad blood between he and Krause and Reinsdorf and the organization that is even Jordan said pit it. Take some convincing. Reconciliation have been impossible in this case. He demanded trades with an S. bitterness and that horrendous contract he signed ninety one in reality he signed a hefty five years. Sixty seven million dollars contract with the rockets and the off-season that gave him fifteen million more in incentives the Bulls help facilitate that deal by structuring. It as a sign and trade which helped pippen get extra money. But there's no telling whether or not he would have been able to return to the Bulls even at that figure because there's just the RSP ct find out what it means to me. So let's just give it to them. We're going to bump his salary up to the MAX K. So he earned eleven million dollars that next year. Let's put it up to fourteen maintain it and a five year deal Chicago. A- give him a raise of about fifteen percent that'll turn into five year eighty eight million dollar deal krause would have loathed paying pippen this much but let's say he was untradable because of that. I mean the Rockets del Pip into Portland at a slightly lower price. Only one year into his deal. So where does that leave us? The salary cab you would have Jordan at thirty four point seven Scotty at fourteen and then the rest of the guys that I missed mentioned they'll take to seventy one point six cell. There's some wiggle room. Perhaps by generally speaking before you consider cost of doing business matters like ten day contracts and trades. You're looking at about a seventy two million dollar. Sorry that has that would have been the most expensive roster in history the Knicks by the way had the highest in history at that time with fifty nine point nine and the Bulls came in and ninety eight and topped. It was sixty one point three. So that means that you're topping that figure by full ten million dollars to keep the team together now. I'm keeping everybody but you have to adjust for one year deals because rhinestone krause had no interest in keeping that restaurant for a long time. Jordan was thirty five with thirty three. Every role player was in his thirties. Liked you know. The question is how much were their salaries needs to be adjusted. I mean I think a good example that. Jj is an example of player known to have made a choice. Whether he would get. I mean he spoke about his twenty seventeen. Free Agency headed decide between the rockets. They're gonNA offer him for at thirty two or the sixers going. Give Him one at twenty three. And it's one twenty three even though the was more money for less per year. So if you think about. Chicago's free agents and who they are going to bring in. I don't know what it have been suicide. You would have I mean would have been worth it Pippen missed out on an all star game despite being healthy because he only averaged fourteen points a game with Houston you know. Longley's rebounding and scoring and block. Shots started to go down. Kerr was with San Antonio he averaged four points per game and Robin played for the Lakers. And then he got cut and then he played more. Games in Dallas and that was it and then Harper wedding ambush retired Within two years later so you could say you could have kept everybody. You don't need to keep everybody together. You need to keep pippen and Jordan together is what you need and then you just fill out the rest. And I've learned that lesson and Golden State. Just keep two guys important ones and then just give give them some Barbados's in armored it'll come on back on sports by are your wiper. Blades chattering skipping squeaking. 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Less guaranteed call the international travel department right now at low cost airlines eight hundred seven five four four five three one eight hundred seven five four four five three one eight hundred seven five four four five three one. That's eight hundred seven five four forty five thirty one. Imagine this is your money and someone wants to take it from you. Who Is it the IRS? They want your money and guess what they can legally take it all of it if they want remember. They sent you that letter that said. Hey you always a bunch of cash and we're going to take it from you. So what do you do fight back? By letting our team of experts at the tax helpline work it out with the IRS. So you can keep your money and we're good at what we do. When you hire us you'll get a team of guys on your side. No the IRS laws and will fight to save your money so if you owe the irs a ton of cash and you WANNA keep it call right now and learn for free how we can help you. Put it back in your pocket. Eight hundred nine three two one seven four nine eight hundred nine three two one seven four nine eight hundred nine three two one seven four nine. That's eight hundred nine three to seventeen forty nine. Let's say you just bought a house. Bad News is you're one step closer to becoming your parents soon. You'll have a separate fridge in the basement or extra. Groceries are exiled forever. Remember that frozen lasagna. Of course you don't. It's been down there since two thousand eight good news is it's easy to bundle home and auto through progressive and save on your car insurance face a cake behind the LASAGNA. It's very old progressive. Casualty Insurance Company affiliates and other insurance discount available in all states you situations Garrick Utley modern art master. I'm thirty three percents. Sure Rick tittle. Is the father of my child. That I'm one hundred percent sure. Rick tittle is a jackass. Oh you better shut Ya. All lines are open one. Eight hundred seven play. Who wants to get in? Who wants to get in and get hurt so as we like? I know I'm talking a lot about that documentary but as a lot to lot to bring in and you think about who look good and bad and there's no doubt that Michael Jordan looks good and there's a whole generation of people. The never saw him play. They're very young and then there are people I would say you know. Look if you're under twenty you have no idea what it was like during Jordan and I think it's a great you know for the High School and the college kids out there. It's really great insight. Great insight for all of us very private guy. We learned a lot. Even those of us who are the same age and watched him and worked in the industry or the biggest bowl San ever. You learned something you know learning about Gus who was a Chicago Cop. Kinda took on the role of Jordan's Dad. I mean there's all how could you know that unless you were there? There's this all these cool things to find out about but I think if you're like between thirty five and twenty you remember Jordan as a real little kid but you didn't really get to see the fire. Everything comes out in this documentary. That makes Jordan look even even the bullying. He's able because it was not because he was a sadistic sob here. A little bit. But that wasn't his resum dench was to win. And when you think about people who say that you know Lebron is better. Look Lebron's amazing and I'm never GONNA take anything. I have no criticisms for Lebron James Zero Criticisms. He's a different player than Jordan. It's not the same thing when you look at the seventy three win warriors. They didn't even win title. Even though we're up there up three one and I was there and it was not fun but the way this whole all the different splashes of color and Jordan and as a kid and everything else that went into this at times he was funny. He was emotional He was authentic sincere and he was a tyrant at times. But that tyranny is what piloted his ship in the right direction to to greatness. He's a rare case of the hero. And the villain you know. And I thought the villain and the hero or both equally celebrated but it's not like villain villain wondering by the way when you think about what many people consider Napoleon as an anti Christ. Napoleon started so many wars just for fun because that was his thing and all the death and destruction he caused even his on nation. He's not listed as like Hitler Pol Pot or even Stalin. There are I mean if you go to a coal militar in Paris there's a huge beautiful Sort of like almost Tomb that looks like Know an open scroll Napoleon instill lauded and people name their kids after the raiders had three different guys named Polian Napoleon. Dynamite EISENHOWER. More of an antiquated on a topic for another day. But that's the kind of thing and the Polian was the hero and the villain. Mike comparing him to him. I guess I just did but the the you could say if you really want against the Nitty Gritty and your teaching journalism class you could say was this series a true objective piece of journalism. And I would say for the most part. Yeah but I don't really care I don't really care about all that stuff you know. When over the years people say oh is that? What a journalist like you. Whoever whoever heard me call myself a journalist I have a degree in journalism? Yeah I do But I found the these are entertainment shows right. If I'm not entertaining I would not have lasted five seconds. I'm not entertained to everybody but we're supposed to be having some fun with this right and highly opinionated I could never be a report or reporters can't be opinionated. Maybe a columnist columnist at At Jamestown but is this journalism look Jordan to his credit. Did Not ignore the controversy. The gambling you know the bullying mattress of his teammates but Jerry. Krause the they went into his lack of of activism. You're not going to support this guy who's running against Jesse Helms basketball player. What do you want? Can you give us a check? Okay here's a check. You saw Lebron get up there and say vote for Hillary. We'll just because Jordan didn't do that doesn't make him a bad guy or he let down his race. That's something that Obama brought up in the documentary. He said if you are successful African American. It's not enough. Just be successful. You have to be a spokesperson to and look. I didn't see him as sadistic he could. Be Mean and vindictive but you could say winning has its price and I don't think it's shady. He Gamble. I know a lot of people that gamble. He has a lot of money to gamble. He never gambled himself into the powerhouse. Or you know. His wife left him. Because of the gamble hangers. Children were left panelists and they had nowhere to live or anything like that. He didn't go to loan. Sharks was trouble with organized crime either and so he didn't take a political stance against a known racist and a little quip. Republicans buy sneakers to was taken completely out of context. So that's why Stockton was afraid of I think was making it a puff piece. And I I think we were all transfixed by him. The competitiveness the grace the style the coolness he's an icon in every sense of the world who he was a superhero and expect them to be a perfect human being. No ONE IS I. Don't you could even say he wasn't even the perfect basketball player? Did he shoot a one hundred percent from the field? No did he lose playoff series. Yes do I believe for a second? That Jordan would be undefeated in the finals. And today's game. I don't know I mean you could say well. He was defended by Dan. Marley and Byron Scott and Craigie low and Jeff Hornicek and Brian Russell and John starks. What would it be? Now you've got to go against Kawai and Lebron and Igwe Dolla and clay. I Jordan wouldn't have been intimidated by those guys like what he said about the glove. I had no problem with the glove. Although he did and people do Romanticize that era oh hand checking it was so much harder and the Pistons would be you down and they would you know Jordan God bludgeoned by the bad boys. There's no doubt but the gist of it was very simple. If you crossed him he'd get you and it said that was just the truth whether it was George Karl or Isaiah Thomas or Brian Russell. Or the Bradford Smith Everything Jordan. Did he represented good or bad was aimed at winning and in the end he won and you can have reasonable conversations about the conditions under which he dominated notwithstanding but that is the bottom line in the documentary and his legacy as the guy in his time. Just one and so as I said Jerry. Krause who died three years ago did get the raw deal on this to the point that his family began releasing excerpts from his unpublished memoir to at least try to cover his side of the story and Jordan was ruthless in the attacks and they would even attack. Toni Kukoc coach because Krause liked him. But if you WANNA look at the opponents in this series they all had one thing in common they lost Magic Johnson. Patrick Ewing Clyde Drexler. The Glove Barkley Malone Marley Reggie Miller even bj Armstrong later down the list. Everybody got in the crosshairs and got out. Now say what you want about Isiah. Thomas being kept off the Dream Team because nobody liked him but he did beat Jordan twice. And you could say in Jordan's prime now you could say look. The bills weren't the bills yet. They had evolved Phil Jackson's impact and the triangle hadn't been full fell. Yeah but whatever but the thing is you can tell that. Isaiah beat them twice and it takes tchernoff to this day. He hates Isaiah. Thomas and if you stay under a guy skin for thirty years you one to say that now the other thing about pippen there's two conversations about him here number. One obviously is how appreciative he was when he was the sixth highest paid guy a multi championship team and one of the best fifty players of all time and he was not robbing. It was Batman and Batman. Brother is what he was. You could even argue is one of the greatest twenty players of all time. He's one of the five best players of all time and when Rodman and Pippin took on the world. When Jordan went to play baseball. They really showed what they can do but they showed him quitting on his team. And that is the cardinal sin and sports and. He says he'd still do the same thing again. And that's a huge loss and an unfortunate part of the story. Because you know pippen comes off. I think kind of a winner and a loser in this but as I said the good thing for pippen is that the story kind of redeemed from self last night the footage of the pain. He got it out in game six and honestly. I completely forgot about that completely. Forgot about the fact that he was playing in pain he would make a shot and take a step and be like. Oh and you know how it is with back pain. It's completely debilitating back pain. You'd get a back spasm like that. It's it's all bad it really is but I also wonder about Dennis Rodman. Because I mean Steve Kerr now Steve Kerr Scott. Three rings as a coach. Let's Rodman do you watch that thirty for thirty with Rodman he says? I'm one of the ten most recognizable people on the planet earth. Not He still not happy you know. He did his interview with a ridiculous gas station. Had he had really bright green fingernail Polish. He had sunglasses. I think that were used at Chernobyl. That's just him and people will say. Oh my Gosh Rodman's the best. Because he's in the middle of the finals then he's awol he goes to A. Wwe event hanging out with Common Electra. And then he comes back and they win and can you imagine being so useful for your team. That you didn't get suspended also was well. Dennis embarrassed all of us. All right guys down there little guys down here. Can you imagine being that good now? There are some. This is why Phil Jackson's good. There are some coaches out there. That wouldn't care that they needed robin in the final say would still suspend him and that would have made me very upset as a fan but on the other hand you know you would say probably would have got him fired too but you could say. Hey a rules rule and you didn't even show up. The reporters like is Dennis. Excuse from practice. No He's not. Do you know where Dennis is. He's not here now. I don't you can tell me was hurt but you just wonder about Robin and even Rodman Son and in College. He found out about that whole vegas thing or need a vacation. I think I need to go all right. I'm Rick Tuttle. We'll take a quick break. We'll come back on sports bra if you or a loved. One is suffering from physical or emotional condition that is left unable to work. Then listen carefully. Take this number down. Eight hundred five nine three seven four nine one. That's eight hundred five nine three seven four nine one. When you call you'll speak with social security disability expert and get a free evaluation to see if you qualify for disability insurance benefits from the US government. That's right a monthly cash payments. Pay directly to you from the Social Security Administration whether you're applying for the first time or you've already been denied disability benefits call now the disability attorneys at Pinnacle Disability can help you build. Your case filed an appeal and represent you at no upfront cost. 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Let one of our smartfares expert travel agents find ridiculously low prices for you call smartfares today and get the best price on your next flight. Guaranteed also save up to fifty percents of business and first class tickets eight five five three two five one seven eight eight five five three two five one seven eight. Oh that's eight five five three to five seventeen. Eighty attention homeowners. Do you have a house? That's in need of serious repairs. Do you have tennis? That never seemed to make their monthly payments. How about code violations past due taxes or maintenance cost you just can't afford then call my friends right now with quick cash offer. They specialize in buying any home. No matter how ugly the situation turned that problem property the cash right. Now it's just that simple one call and you can get rid of that home headache for ever. They buy the ugliest houses with instant. Closings instant cash and huge savings plus there no realtor fees no listing fees and. No repair costs just cash in your hands for that painful property. They're buying a few more houses in your neighborhood this month. So take advantage of this cash offer and call quick cash offer now. Eight hundred four to six to three zero one. Eight hundred four to six to three zero one. That's eight hundred four to six twenty three. Oh one you can't be serious. You cannot be serious. Stay bags Rick tittle is a majestic stallion. Thank you for that and welcome back and we got another hour together. I won't get into some other stuff some baseball but one more thing about the dock. Toni Kukoc coach. I think little of remember he was the guy who saved pippen from complete humiliation. He hit that shot against the Knicks. When PIP refuse to go back in and that was a tough turn around three pointer if he didn't hit that PIP and had a lot more. Remember that but also remember Patrick. Ewing Patrick Ewing the second best player on the Knicks. Who was that John Starks? This guy was a one man team but the even said Patrick Ewing lost the ball four times four times. The Knicks are limited by Chicago. The only time they'd be at the ball off the Bulls and the plows was ninety. Four when pippen refused to go back into the game. Now you know coach at that shot but the Knicks ended up winning the the series. But think about. This ewing lost the national championship to Jordan. He hit the game winner in eighty two. North Carolina took down the Hoyas. Remember that. And he's ewing has never beaten Jordan in anything when it counts. And that's that's tough to say but it just goes to show you why Jordan was so good you know name all those those players you know like they go down the line like magic and Malone Barkley and ewing and they could not get past Michael Jordan. So there's one thing you can say about this guy that guy but people have gotten past Lebron James in the finals. People have gotten past steph curry in the finals. It's just a different notch above everybody else. Productivity got another hour coming back You're listening to the heartland newsfeed radio network at live. Dot HOTLANTA NEWSFEED DOT COM. This stream is supported by advertisers and contributions by you follow us on facebook twitter and instagram. You Service doing us cast for maybe eighteen twenty twenty. I'm Mike Clifford some Republican lawmakers raising objections now to president trump's decision to fire State Department Inspector General Steve Clinic that from MSN. Mr Trump and Friday night letter to congressional officials said he was removing Lennick in thirty days. Because he no longer had confidence in him senator. Susan Collins of Maine responded on twitter. The president has not provided the kind of justification for the removal of idealistic as required by law M. S. N. reports Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa agreed. He said the Congress requires written reasons. Representative Eliot Engel Chairman of the House. Foreign Affairs Committee has said the department. Inspector General's Office had opened a probe into secretary of state. Mike Pump Pale. The House of Representatives has approved the next round of corona virus. Relief and our Eric. Take it off reports some such work. Washington state are watching closely. Jose until is a para educator for English language learners in Vancouver and a member of the public school employees of Washington Service Employees International Union local nineteen forty eight. He says access to sick leave. An protections for workers are crucial harmony. Paid sick days and family in the US is means expanding the healthcare coverage for uninsured and making sure that there's p. for all our central workers the three trillion dollar. Heroes Act passed last week extends paid leave protections from Congress's last stimulus package as you want the bill to provide increased wages so essential workers received time and a half pay meantime children's groups speaking out against billions of dollars in state budget cuts being proposed in. California say programs that benefit kids should be a priority Ted Lampert who heads the group children now says because of child care. Preschool and K through twelve would be devastating for kids especially in lower income families. It's basically taking kids who weren't getting the support they needed before the Democrat and really exacerbating these disparities k. Through twelve is slated for nineteen billion dollar cut over the next two years California housing having. It's predicted massive. Wave of Eve Foreclosures ONC- moratorium toying him is lifted unless states like Michigan put together a comprehensive program to assist families that are thrown out of work by the in nineteen crisis. Michigan is home to more than two point five million renters and many are suffering. Kirsten Elliott with the community housing network in southeastern Michigan says. The money can't come fast enough. The sooner we can get reynolds systems for those. That can't make their rent or make mortgage payments and better so that we are able to avoid having a mass amount of people pushed into homelessness. The state has received more than one hundred fifty two million and cares act funds so far and is working to shovel them out the door. I'm Suzanne Potter. This is PMS. A group in Idaho registering young people now to vote wants to motivate them to the polls. What the vote. Idaho has registered more than five thousand eighteen to twenty five year. Old Boise the CO founder of the group is Nancy Yona but we try to bring it home to them down to special things that would affect them in their life feeling says that might be access to public lands or the minimum wage for young people. Entering the workforce. North Dakota leaders. Want to find a new owner for the state's largest coal power plant which is slated to close in twenty twenty environmental groups. Say That's the wrong way to go. He is Mike Moines. Minnesota based Great River Energy has announced it will close the coal creek station citing a troubling marketplace coal energy governor Doug Burgum calls with the state's most efficient and updated coal. Plant saying he liked to preserve the two hundred sixty jobs there gene words. The Dakota Resource Council says the best way to do that is to set the site for reclamation and not keep it running. I think some of those workers that are doing the mining right now could also speed up the reclamation. There's a Lotta Dirt. That has to be moved in a lot of soil the to be regenerated so it produces as much as it did before where it's estimates that reclamation jobs could last for several years. A recent study of a similar debate in Montana where the coal strip power plant is being phased out found a robust cleanup dare would create hundreds of good paying jobs and permanently improve local groundwater and finally Eric Lettuce tells us that conservation groups stepping back into the fray to stop the latest proposal by the Forest Service to allow logging more than three hundred thousand acres and bulldozing six hundred miles of new roads in the medicine bow national forest located in southern Wyoming. Connie Wilbert with the Sierra Clubs Wyoming says the forest own project documents estimate significant long term negative impacts from carving out roads and clear cutting some ninety five thousand acres impacts on wildlife habitat recreational uses on water quality from increased erosion all of those kinds of impacts. They admit could last as long as fifty years. A similar proposal by the Forest Service last year was stalled after conservation groups filed official objections and the Center for Biological Diversity. The Sierra Club in wilder guardians if filed a second round of objections over the new proposal projected to cost. Us Tax payers nearly two hundred fifty million dollars. The Forest Service says the revised plan limits. Open roads to seventy five miles at any given time and contends that thinning forests increases resilience and reduces wildfire risk from beetle outbreaks. This is my liver. Thanks for start you week. We public news service. We are member and we're listening to support it and online at public new service DOT. Org that I welcome back to the show. Tila with you. Coast to coast around the world. The American Forces Network and I mean forces Army Navy Air Force Marines Coast Guard National Guard. Whatever branch with certainly appreciate what you do? You notice an all volunteer professional armed services that means you get paid but it ain't much For what you do and for those of you who are in places that are not friendly. We super appreciate even more. What you do. Everybody matters no matter if you're behind a desk stateside But if you're an afford observation post or whatever you're doing clandestine We appreciate all that you do. You're the reason we get to do this because you're holding the shield and you're brave so we don't have to be and believe believe you me. I can tell you I definitely appreciate what you do. One eight hundred eight seven eight place. The number two talk some sports and today they said three hours with No guests actually put it in a call tomorrow buddy. Michael urban see if he wanted to come on the show. I think I'm going to have him tomorrow. We'll see of course long time and we'll be beat writer. He's written books on baseball as well. See how old herbs is doing but We'll get the guest pumped up in earnest. But we solve another hour of open lines and you can participate at one. Eight hundred eight seven eight seven five two nine always write me an email rick at sports file dot Com. And I'll check them. On a couple of days also tune in radio APP iheartradio APP stitcher out normally twitch us in the studio and he knows deal going on right now. This may girl so no twins right there. Get all twitchy so it's the same as twitter. Twitter tweeter tweeter pitcher Also crn digital plus two cable Radio Network Channel. Two thousand five million homes. That's on your TV set. You can find us there as well. 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And even the government that can help slash your debt call the debt destroyer now for free information call now eight seven seven. Three six zero zero four zero two eight seven seven three six. Oh zero four zero eight seven seven three six zero four zero two. That's eight seven seven. Three six zero four zero to supports with Rick tittle. Rick tidwell his genius the best show ever. He's so wonderful genius ever. He's so wonderful. Titillating sports with Rick tittle key so handsome. He's a genius. Thank you for that and welcome back to the show with you. One eight hundred eight seven play to get in as we were waiting for baseball season to start first of all art. How former as manager METS ASTROS? He's been released from the hospital and his fight with cove. Nineteen so that is certainly good. News is a great great guy and good baseball man as well. So that's good news but there's still a lot of things to work out obviously and one of the proposals that MLB has are what they say severe discipline for any fights that might happen because MLB wants to minimize physical contact amongst players. And it's GonNa be Weird to see guys get you know. Touch stirred tagged out or some high slid into and they're going to run into the DUGOUT and pure L. Are Wash their hands or take a so quick shower or something but as the union and the players are trying to negotiate the structure of the season which they hope will begin in July. Some of the details are coming out and that is of course. The safety protocols put into place of spreading the krona virus around and sell the League has presented to the Union a sixty seven page proposal like I said it's starting to leak out and our John Anderson of CBS sports Found out about a very important measures for regular testing. That goes into it. And that's something first of all the regular testing is whatever that means we don't know but they say a limited number of other staff need regular testing. Is that temperature checks. I Dunno spring. Training is going to be limited to fifty players. Scott also said you have it in Hawaii. Be SOME TRAVELING THERE. Fifty players per squad this is to prevent overcrowding and you don't need more than fifty players anyway you're GonNa Forty man and you have ten non roster invitees which might be some minor leaguers. They suggest teams could split their workouts into groups at their facilities and They will have only night games. is interesting. I guess to avoid any heat related concerns. There will be socially distance locker rooms. Lockers must be six feet apart in the clubhouse and that means that the locker room is going to spill over to unused places in the stadium. Communal water faucets will be off limits And they will also say if you WANNA take a shower at the say stadium. That is discouraged. You can do it. But they're saying you probably don't want to so you're gonNA see a lot of guys. Maybe even uniform I. There's a famous story about Ken. Saco putting Gas Fiance Esther Haddad. Miss Miami. She was in his white Porsche. Gas Station San Francisco and there's can take weren't as uniform wariness spikes pumping gas after earth. Maybe Seymour guys like that. Also no lineup. Cards being exchanged they also say spitting is prohibited now and I was golfing. People always golfing with saying you can't spit and I go get used to it because there's no I am going to walk around here and drive around here for eighteen holes not spit. I just I have to spit. I'm sorry about this. I don't spit near you. And then players will be isolated on the road. They already had their own hotel rooms. When you're in the big leagues that's the one thing about the big. When you're in the minors you get your own Joe but players will have to be separated. Even when they're traveling which is interesting. But as I said the interesting thing in fighting and instigating fights are going to be strictly prohibited. Players must not make physical contact with others for any reason unless a normal and permissible part of game action. Violation of these rules will revolve result in severe discipline Severe discipline doesn't mean being thrown out of the game. That's discipline severe. I mean if you think about somebody who initiates or participates in a bench clearing brawl a fine and a suspension from the League is GonNa come from that already but that's really going to be stepped up and unlike so many other sports on fights onfield fights and baseball's is sometimes necessary because of the bad blood people in getting hit by pitches and sometimes teams standing up for themselves or just whatever it is. There are a lot of ways to clear benches. And there aren't really these donnybrook anymore. But still MLB will place a priority on maintaining as much social distancing as possible and they would like sixty feet six inches now. The catcher is going to be next to the hitter. There's nothing you can do about that. You can put the empire the third deck and have them look at camera. The catcher is going to be there. If anybody needs to wear a mask. It'd probably be the catcher but beyond that there are legitimate concerns. I mean you think about the signs stealing scandal which was supposed to lead to an uptick and onfield vigilantism taking the law into my own hands. And it's like you know all these old school players I'd never would have happened in my day. We would have taken care of it. Bob Gibson Don Drysdale Nolan Ryan. There's no way we would have put up with that well. A full-on brawled brawl and then followed up by a positive corona virus tests from one of those guys that could shut down baseball. It really could they say in the Court of public opinion which is a stupid thing to say. Because there's no such thing but when you talk about just PR and hr we talk about Pr. And there's a fight and three guys got out of the fight because they were spitting on each other and breathing on each other and flying. What happened you sell? There's a debate to be had over whether stiffer penalties will ever overcome those moments of emotion. Mlb wants to err on the side of the strong disincentives for that. And and Look C C Sabathia. He knew that had he accrued one inning pitched he was set to make a little bump in pay. Now you could say well. He already has tens of millions of dollars then he does but still forget what. It was like a hundred k. Was something it was. It was definitely six figures. Whatever it was and he decided to protect his teammates and he decided to hit a guy even though he knew he would get him thrown out of the game. And by the way Brian Cashman and the Yankees gave him his bonus. Anyway but you now. That was a time. Were fully guy. Knew he was going to lose money and it wasn't a heat of the moment thing where he could say. Well I didn't know what I was thinking. Oh no he knew exactly what he's doing. He knew exactly the cashiers giving up but he thought it was more important for him. This is why was lauded as a hero. Cc karston Charles out of Vallejo California. Because he knew he had to get his teammates backs and no amount of money was worth his teammates backs. Well like when you have these guys out there these cocky Alpha males and some guy gets hit now guy gives them the finger. There's a guy who has a home run. And he tosses his bat thirty feet in the air and it's spinning. What do you do all when this social distancing has over? I'm a whip Your Butt. You could see a fight and then you could see some crazy suspension. So that's out there if you WANNA fight you're GONNA pay Gary. Bettman is running baseball this year. Okay I'm Rick Tuttle. You're you talk. Sports come on back twenty eight. I'd struggled with opiate and Meth Addiction. For twelve years. Didn't said things that the sober me never would have done. When I realized I was not invincible I was not exempt. And that's when a friend told me about the Rehab Place. When they gave me the tools I needed to get sober and all it took. Was the one phone call elite. Rehab can help you start to break your addiction problem and get sober in as little as seven days and we'll work with your insurance provider to help cover the costs. Plus we have traveled assistance programs to get you here by plane or train. Make this free call right now to learn more eight hundred four zero three five nine one to eight hundred four zero three five nine one to eight hundred four zero three five nine one two. That's eight hundred four zero three fifty nine twelve. 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Seventy one producers have the appropriate licenses for the products they offer increase income as possible using strategy suited to your goals and may require multiple annuities and holding them full term. It doesn't really matter I. I don't mind my job and I don't think I'm GONNA go anymore. Didn't mind retail things. There's a direct correlation between dogs and lightning dogs and lightning. Ow figured it all out one. Eight hundred eight seven a play. One eight hundred eight seven eight seven five two nine Michael Urban Tomorrow at eleven forty. How about that? We'll bring on Herbs Actually Cinematheque Z. A. Yeah Okay you still on the planet earth and so. We'll talk to him. We got some other guests as well. One eight hundred eight seven eight one eight hundred eight seven eight seven seven five two nine and Michael Irvin trial account as you know. Of course one of the things we need to know about Sports is the fact that Different states have different strokes for different folks. And when the Yankees and mets play something that governor Cuomo and New York that I was very skeptical of and now he says this is from spectrum news when you look at the risk reward. There's a lot of reward with minimal risks and that's good to hear from Mayor Air Cuomo. He said if you can have an economic activity that can take place in generates economic interest and entertainment interest than it's worth it. Well of course the players and their families and the essential workers my disagree with the minimal risk theory. But you know 'cause There's vaccine or cure right now and in fact there's not even any treatment outside of a ventilator if you needed New symptoms long-term vacations being discovered by the day. But you know this still comes just hours after that sixty seven page safety and testing proposal was leaked by athletic from from MLB MLB owners claim. Today they have an actual number on. How much money they lose per day without fans they say six hundred forty thousand dollars per game in an eighty two game regular season that are played without fans now at the team level If you look at the Yankees to suffer the most because more than three hundred million dollars total and absence of any further concessions from the players but teams would still receive some local and national television revenues that are of course commensurate with the number of games that are played and then if the postseason is held hopefully they would get a comfortable majority of the National TV revenues but the players are still highly skeptical of the League's figures and almost all teams are privately held commodities which means they're under zero obligation to discuss their financials they're not going to open the books. Mafia. It's not going to happen trump. They're not going to show you the books. And so there's a long history of owners fudging the numbers and hiding their revenues as it suits them and it's it's hard to lay out sometimes. Joel Sheehan Twitter. In fact took okay. He fights that number of over six hundred thousand dollars per game but these owners are now claiming Something source from a twelve page document called economics of playing without fans in attendance. Good title that was presented to the Union and the Union. No doubt knowing that owner claims and numbers are of course. GonNa Black the back. Those claims are going to be treated with some skepticism. As well as I said. There's always an eyebrow raise one way or the other we've fans we just. WanNa see baseball all right one. Eight hundred eight seven a player. I would like to take you down a road now a little road. That might take a while. But I think it's very interesting about how the Yankees God Aaron Judge and it all started in nineteen ninety. Let's just hold on it all started. With Ruben there and whatever the season begins we know that Aaron judge is one of the big stars in baseball. He'll be in right field on opening day even though he turned out he broke a ribbon spring training and he was going to start on the list. But here's the thing about judge. He's already twenty eight years old. He's going to be entering his fourth. Full big league season he as a rookie smashed. Fifty two home runs which was a record. Unanimous rookie of the year was an MVP some people think as MVP was stolen by a reut it up guy but his on base percentage is fourth. In all of Baseball 401. I wouldn't have even thought. Even the top ten slugging percentage is for of opiates pluses third. He's eighth in home runs since he's been in the big Is W AARP into that is a nineteen point four? He is the true player. Development Success story big tight end out of Fresno state overcame huge swing and miss issues in college and in the minors and is now very productive. Big League players and coaches worked with them and judges IRS credit himself for tinkering and making constant adjustments to. It's not easy great baseball acumen. Great Work Ethic Blah Blah Blah. But getting him indepence drives is a process that dates back before he was in college. Think about this. A string of transactions that led the Yankees to getting. Judge is seventeen months older than judge himself. Go back to one thousand nine hundred ninety and look to trades seven of them one international signing a draft pick twenty one players and a lot of patients. So let's start of Twenty First Nineteen Ninety. Yunky sign Ruben Rivera. The Yankees actually signed to Rivera's. They were cousins. International AMATEUR FREE AGENTS OUT OF PANAMA. Nineteen Ninety one came with little hype and fanfare and eventually became the greatest closer and the first unanimous hall of Famer Arianna. The other one was his cousin he was supposed to be the next grade. Yankee Ruben had all the buzz and in fact Baseball America. Put Him on the cover. In December of nineteen ninety four and said the next Mickey Mantle question-mark Baseball America ranked Ruben Rivera. Not Mariano as one of the nine best prospects wall time. He made his brief. Mlb debut as a September call up and ninety five got an extended taste of the bigs in ninety six to eighty four part-time player on a championship team. But behind the scenes the Yankees. Were getting impatient with Rivera very very very immature and then he hit two thirty five and AAA and had zero work ethic. He had the tools he had no drive to get better and apparently they asked him if he wanted to get better and his answer was now and so. Herbert and the guy who signed him head of the Yankees Latin American Scouting. He could run. He could throw you could hit for distance it all tools but he also likes to fool around. You have to be serious okay. So the Yankees Trade Rivera for Hideki Irabu or Eva Boo Irabu member. Hideo NOMO TOOK MLB by storm in the nineties and he paved the ways for Irabu. Who was supposed to be known as the Japanese Nolan Ryan? He was even more hype than No-no Nomo. The padres got him from the Chiba. Lotte Marines and that led to the creation of the posting system by the way because the Japanese teams WanNa compensation for their big star's. There was one small problem with the padres getting Arab contract. He had no desire to play for them. He said I have absolutely no desire to conclude a contract with San Diego. My first pick is the Yankees all I can say now as I told this to my agent and there has been no change in my wishes so the padres that time run by Larry Lucchino Red Sox fans. They thought he'll come around. He said when we talked to him. It'll happen and never did. He held his ground forces. The trade and the Yankees sent him in a six player trade headlined by Rivera and one month later Arab. Signed for your twelve point. Eight million dollar contract and that trae the Yankees Got Irabu homer Bush Gordon Amerson and Vernon Maxwell who was a minor leager potter has got Ruben Rivera. Raphael Medina and three million dollars in cash. Wasn't that funny back then. And so a brief minor-league tuneup Irabu joined the Yankees in ninety seven and was pretty good as first time out but then the wheels fell off an Irabu started giving up Jimmy Jax all over the place forty two home runs and thirty seven and a third demoted to the bullpen and after his rookie season in which she was twenty eight years old his era was a seven eight. Didn't make the postseason roster now the next year he got another chance and he was good. He was in the rotation and pitched to four zero four zero six but he was the number five guy behind David Cone L. Duquet Andy petted and David Wells. But he still was not living. Up to his hype. I'm going to get back to the story on the other side as I said. Stick with me. It's a long road from Rivera to judge time. Rectal seen a second on violent you. You Need Auto Parts O. Reilly Auto Dot com is just a few clicks away. We offer convenient options for you to get your parts quickly order online and pick up for free at your local O'Reilly auto parts store. We'll even bring it out curbside or you can have your parts delivered right to your door with free shipping on most orders over thirty five dollars visit. Reilly Auto Dot Com. Bart's do you owe ten thousand dollars or more on at least two federal student loans. Then you may qualify for new programs offered by the Department of Education. These programs can reduce your interest lower your payments and possibly qualify you for loan forgiveness if you have ten thousand dollars or more and at least two federal student loans and currently not in school you may qualify for one of these programs. Call now to check your eligibility student. 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Store or place or or by visiting their website thrive fantasy dot com. Use the Promo code a sign up today for an incident. Free Ten dollars credit this fantasy with the Promo Code. Ai comp- wrap up now. A playoffs playoffs. You can mean playoffs. I just hope we can win a game rick till eight two hundred chicken wings at your Mama's house last night now back to fat boy right. The cliffhanger continues. How do we get from Rivera before my Mike judge before Aaron judge was born Aaron? Judge BACK TO EAT ABU. Nine Hundred Ninety. Eight in the rotation fifth starter. Not Living Up to the hype and the tensions boiled over early in ninety nine. He failed to cover. First base in back-back spring training starts and George Steinbrenner called him a quote unquote fat toad. He said he looks like a fat Hussy towed out there. That's not a Yankee. Come ON GUYS. We are going to meet again to tell him what we expect. Well started ninety nine season in the bullpen. Did get back on the rotation a month later had a complete game over the red SOx struck out twelve the IRA was under four but the rest of the summer. His era was over six and a half and As for Rivera Spent Four Seasons and the padres system and underwhelmed hit two. Oh four bounced back a little bit after that came back to the Yankees and oh five but he stole Derek. Jeter's glove remember that and they cut him so last year. Rivera was playing in the Mexican league at Age Forty Five but December ninety nine euro booze poor performance general indifference frustrated by the Yankees and. They made the decision to move on from him. They sent him to the Expos for three young pitchers and clerk big-league spot for pitching prospect. That they loved Eddie are now who did nothing. But from the expos they got Jake Westbrook Ted Lilly and Christian Parker and as Cashman said at the time had decky came with lot of fanfare. Wanted US as badly as we wanted him. There are some good times and some tough times. As well we saw those flashes of Brilliance. That attracted us. When he was a free agent coming out. In Japan Arab in Canada was horrible. He was hurt and when he did pitch is the. Ira was over six point six. The Rangers tried to make them a closer to he saved sixteen games but then he went back to Japan and a three. And if you didn't hear it was a very sad tale. Got into alcoholism got into some legal problems and twenty eleven. He commits suicide. Yeah pretty horrible. But for the Yankees it was about building depp. Lily and Westbrook spent two thousand up and down. Depth arms was eventual to build up some power. He remained New York until he got traded to the as that was in Jeff. Weaver trade with the as head. Jeff we for five minutes and Billy Bean flip them and that was the Bobby Kelpie thing Westbrook was a former rockies. First Round pick who went to the Expos and the Mark Lansing Trade That was his first taste of MLB. But the Yankees Traded Westbrook for David Justice over the Yankees won four world series titles and five years. Ninety six to two thousand two thousand. You would say it was the weakest of the four that on the day of the trade. They were three games behind the JAYS. They had scored the fifth amount of runs. They needed a bat. So the Indian Scott Westbrook Zach Day. Ricky Day never him that's fans and the Yankees Got David Justice and just a professional hitter. Even though justice was planned see they turned to justice only after they tried to get Sammy? Sosa didn't work and they tried to get one gone and it didn't work and at the time they said that we had a player that we wouldn't trade to get so Sir Gonzales. We still know who that is but Justice was great. He went on a three month. Rampage he hit over three hundred twenty home runs and less than half a season. He drove in sixty in less than half a season. And you might remember the go ahead. Three run home run against Arthur Rhodes against the mariners in game six so the third straight pennant. The Indians did pretty well as well. Because Westbrook of course spent nine years in Cleveland. It was a huge innings eater and then he got sent to the cardinals and a trade the gave him a young guy named Corey Kluber. The day was flip for David Sagis and then day was then required To get Milton Bradley. So then we get to two thousand one. The Yankees traded justice for Robin Ventura. Because there was a nagging groin injury. The next year for justice he only had two forty. The club had a void at third base and that lent him to go straight. Up Player for player trade. It was the first Nikki. Mets trade and almost a decade and Ventura was very good defender. Hit about two fifty. He was an upgrade over process. Who had his time in the world series but was out but justice with Matt. Stephen Remember that you don't because he was traded to the as after one week for Mark Guthrie and Tyler. Yates Ogling got justice to replace Jason Giambi who silent the Yankees and our billy. Bean said we got a guy who was one year away from being. Mvp The whole league then in no three still with me. The Yankees Traded Ventura for Scott proctor. Because the back quiet they got Aaron Boone and the deadline so they flipped Ventura for the dodgers the Yankees Got Scott proctor and Bubba crosby not bob across Bubba Crosby Bubba crosby and then the Yankees. The dodgers got Robin Ventura and Cashman was very gracious about. Oh you did a great job. Boone's stint pinstripes was very memorable now. He's a skipper. And he got a very famous game seven homerun off Tim Wakefield if I remember but he tore up his knee and the Yankees got a-rod and you didn't need him anymore crosby and proctor or spent a long time with the Yankees Crosby was a fourth outfielder type. A guy and you might remember that cashman famously. Said Crosby was our starting center fielder. Even though they had just signed donny. Johnny Damon. But proctor is pretty good reliever then no seven the Yankees Trade proctor. For Wilson Betta meet and proctor was used a lot by Joe Torry but the Proctor had a bad outing and He burned some equipment. Trying to erase some bad Mojo and people started to get a little concern for him. Better meet at. The time was only twenty five years old and the Yankees used him as a true bench player. I mean they're infield think about era jeeter Robbie Canal I mean come on. Proctor pits really well for the dodgers by the way but as a place in proctor the. Yankees called up a prospect named Java Chamberlain. He started setting up for Rivera. Then in the Yankees Trade Betta meat for Nick Swisher and they signed to the richest contract they added a j Burnett and a very busy summer as well Swisher. You know twenty eight years old switch hitter with power. The Yankees had to replace Bobby Abreu in right field. They had to replace Jason Giambi so so she was the guy. The Yankees Got Nick Swisher and Connecticut to share. And the White Sox Got Wilson Bellamy Jeff Marquez and Johnny Nunez. Swisher hit twenty. Nine home runs was acquitted key contributor and they won the world series for years of the Yankees. He hit one hundred. Five home runs. Better meet not that great so then Swisher. In twelve rejects a thirteen point three million dollar qualifying offer and the original contract. Swisher signed with the as expired and the Yankees had no interest in resigning him and especially with on the wrong side of thirty. And if you think about There was another reason letting swisher go. They'll get a draft pick and so the Yankees. Let him go. And the Indians brought him. In and compensation the Yankees received a supplemental first round pick thirty second overall With their first they lost Raphael. Soriano the free agency. Hiroki Kuroda reject the qualifying offer as well and so in the next year junaid the Yankees drafted Aaron judge going into the two thousand thirteen draft baseball. America ranked judge as the thirtieth best prospect. He was obviously rob power hitter His junior year at Fresno state he started getting the average up but even though he hit three sixty nine he struck out once a game which is a very high total for a college player. And so this is the snippet here from baseball. America quote judge puts on jaw-dropping batting practice displays but some scouts worry that his power won't translate to Games judge profiles as a two fifty hitter. And it's going to strike out a lot which comes the territory for tall power hitters with long arms. A team that can live with. Strikeouts is fine if he hit thirty home runs a year. The while swing is more about strength. An average them bad speed taipower judges a solid average runner. Above average arm will be a solid defender in right field so the Yankees use their first. First Round Pick Notre Dame third baseman. Eric Hi Halio. Yeah so and then we get the rest but I always like it when someone goes down this road to look back. How Ruben Rivera indirectly directly indirectly led to Aaron judge. It's pretty cool all right. Let's go to New York City because we have Charlie. Charlie almost went through a three hour show with no calls. Thanks for calling up my man. What's up I'm sorry. I have to preface it by saying I really hate the Yankees and you've talked too much about them already. So had my. That's how my favorite shirt Yankee. Talk Regarding Aaron judge wasn't it wasn't he was there may I may have misheard. Wasn't there a year or a time on the as we're GONNA draft him but his He said he wanted to stay college. Am I is that incorrect? From what I understand the as drafted out of high school of high school okay. Yeah I knew something. He wanted to play college ball. Was that the story. Yeah he was going to be a tight end and a baseball star Fresno state so they spent a. It was a pretty low pick. I think but they the as did draft him. Okay all right. That's what I thought I mean. Just imagine if you had He'd be on the Yankees now anyway. Just train them. You know what hurts? I remember? I had sonny gray on the day after we drafted him and of course you know coming out of Vanderbilt and he was going to be a guy who is going to be in the minors for a while but somebody called me and he said how long until he's on the Yankees and it was right by the way I just looked it up thirty first round the as drafted him in twenty ten at Linden High School. Wow Wow yeah. I remember reading that somewhere. And he wound up like you said well with the Yankees but listen. He's a great talent but he he seems Alaska and I'm not knocking them. It's Christmas an observation. You seem to get injured a lot. And he at the season where to start on time. He's still They even said locally even at the season to start in June or early July. He's still won't be ready because he has some kind of rib issue but it just seems like over the last couple of years started. I don't know if that's because of the size. I mean Giancarlo Stanton seems to be a little injury-prone himself I duNNo. It's because of their size it. I mean they're they're built like brick houses. Yeah Aaron Judge. I got around to break here. Aaron six six seven to eighty five. Charlie I know it's crazy because there's a picture of him in Stanton stand next to each other. It's like I'm looking at a football players. I'll talk to you later. All right thanks for the Cultural Emmerick. That'll come on back if you or a loved. One is suffering from a physical or emotional condition. That is left. You unable to work then. Listen carefully take this number down. Eight hundred five nine three seven four nine one. That's eight hundred five nine three seven four nine one. When you call you'll speak with a social security disability expert and get a free evaluation to see if you qualify for disability insurance benefits from the US government. That's right a monthly cash payment paid directly to you from the Social Security Administration whether you're applying for the first time or you've already been denied disability benefits call now the disability attorneys at Pinnacle Disability can help you build your case filed an appeal and represent you at no upfront cost to you. Don't wait another minute to see if you may qualify for your Social Security Disability Benefits called Pinnacle Disability Group at eight hundred five nine three seven four nine one for your free case evaluation. That's eight hundred five nine three seven four nine one eight hundred five nine three seven four nine one call now. Hey travelers. Do you want to save money on your next flight. Then pick up the phone and call. That's right call because the best prices are not online. They're with smartfares. See smartfares has special deals with the airlines. When they have unsold seats they use smartfares to fill them. So you get airline tickets at ridiculously low prices. Our prices are to low to publish online with the extra money. You'll save. You can book another trip for. Treat yourself to dinner or shopping so stop searching all of those travel sites to find the lowest price on your next flight. Let one of our smartfares expert travel agents find ridiculously low prices for you call smartfares today and get the best price on your next flight. Guaranteed also save up to fifty percent of business and first class tickets eight five five three two five one seven eight zero eight five five three two five one seven zero. That's eight five five. Three to five seventeen eighty. Have you written a book? You can become a published author with durins publishing. The Nation's oldest publishing services company countless authors have trusted dorrance for nearly a hundred years to bring their book to the market are professional team will editor text design your book pages and create an appealing eye-catching custom cover plus our authors benefit from Book Promotion Marketing Campaign that. Make your book available where people buy books like Amazon and brick and mortar bookstores? So make this free call right now to claim your free author's Guida publishing don't wait another day take one step closer to realizing your dream of becoming a published author and seeing your name in print. You've already written a book so the next thing to do is make free call right now to Dorn Publishing and get your free guide to publishing call right now. Eight hundred four eight five six zero zero three eight hundred four eight five six zero zero three. That's eight hundred. Four eight five six zero zero three. I'm just a caveman. Your world frightens and confuses me Rick tittle wants to hear from you. The phone call is free. Y'All just dial one eight hundred eight seven eight late to get yourself on the air right now call him up now. Lazy Ass one. Eight hundred eight seven eight flay. But I don't think you should be but man when I'm talking to my team. You're my assistant okay. You're supposed to back me up and go get juice boxes when I tell you now. Go get me a juice box. You know you're talking to. I'm talking to the juice box crazy. I'm not crazy I'm just thirsty. Go to hell. He'll go out there. What are you grabbing Joe's box? I'm no juice box boy. I'll tell you that yes. You are going Nice you go. I'm not Jeez Louise that something else. All right one more thing. That just came out today about the last dance that pizza that was delivered in Utah by the way Utah Pizza goes together about as well as Utah. Jazz goes together Apparently when the pizza's showed up Jordan him and he said he was yelling. Guy that ate it well now are finding out from the director Jason. Here is that when the pizza was open? Jordan's spit on it so no one else could have any. That's a trick that Adam. Corolla remember him saying that one time that he would always have something to put down in the middle of the table with his. Construction worker buddies. He would spit on it so he knew he'd get it to himself once again. Another story about Jordan. Being the bully but he paid for it was in the fetal position and the can all night all right. Thanks for tuning in tomorrow on this show. We got some guests nine. Am is you're listening to the heartland news feed ready nip work at live dot heartland use dot com. This stream is supported by advertisers and contributions by US. Follow us on facebook. Twitter and INSTAGRAM's criminality is focused on others. A lot of this also stems back to the unmasking of former national security adviser. Michael Flynn to which Republican Senator from Louisiana John Kennedy Tells Fox business unmasking just a form of spying. Thirty nine members of the Obama Administration spied on on the general. What's Congress going to do about it so far? Nothing at the White House. This hour president trump and other members of the administration participating in a round table with restaurant executives and industry leaders. You're listening to USA radio news balance of nature changing the world one life at a time. I like the product very much. I wake up in the morning. I'm wide awake. I'm raring to go my almost seventy six. And I'm working to different property management companies six days a week and I was really really dragging. I mean I could barely get myself to work and it all culminated when I started taking balance of nature. It didn't happen right away. I take it for a little while and all of a sudden I just made a mental note. Hey I'm feeling better and I am so I really like this product. Experience the balance of nature. Difference for yourself right now. Balance of nature is offering free shipping and thirty five percent off on any new preferred order. Start Your journey to better health today by calling one eight hundred two four six eight seven five one or by going to balance of Nature Dot Com and make sure to receive this special radio offer by using Discount Code. Usa The nation's health and human services chief is linked part of the blame for the corona virus death toll on pre existing health conditions. Usa Radio Networks. Chris Barnes has more on the story making the rounds on the Sunday. News Shows Secretary Alex as our said on CNN state of the Union that health problems especially in minority communities have added significantly to the ninety thousand US vitality from the infection. As are stressed. He wasn't suggesting the death tolls of faults of the American people also disagreed with another top White House official when it comes to the CDC. I don't believe the left this country down. I believe the CDC serves an important public health role and what was always critical was to get the private sector. Table is our speaking there on. Cbs Face the nation. There will be no summer tour for Kenny. Chesney like many artists that country music star has been forced to cancel his tour amid the corona virus. Pandemic forty shows will be move to next summer. You're listening to USA Radio News at the American Veterinary Medical Association. Annual Convention in Washington DC. I spoke with Dr John. How Av may president about one? Health health is really a collaboration between physicians veterenarians or public health officials for example in Minnesota or state public health veterinary and deals with so. We're not diseases. Rabies FOR EXAMPLE. Animals or sentinels were humans and humans are sentinels for some infections and animals. There's more valuable information at eight PM. Dot or a House passed on Friday at three trillion dollar corona virus. Relief Bill along with a historic rules. Change to make remote work easier but congress is nowhere close to a deal on the next package and the houses off until after Memorial Day and thoughts are that nothing will be done much before July. Fourth Broken Minority leader from California. Kevin McCarthy says the bill the Democrats passed on. Friday is going nowhere. Now I'm not crazy about Democrats about crazy about Democrats talked about this bill going nowhere. It's really sickening that the Democrats are using this opportunity to enforce their socialism. Remember what does is bill that they just passed on Friday. Well it's about pot. It's about prisoners. It's about politicizing election law prioritizing illegal immigrants and pensions. These are all things that are socialist wishlist that they've been trying to pass along before covert ever came to this land and that's exactly what they're trying to do knowing that it will not go anywhere. New York Democratic Governor Andrew. Cuomo wants professional sports back in New York state and is encouraging major. Sports teams to plan reopening without fans. Cuomo says the Games could be televised and New York. State will help major sports franchises. I WANNA watch the buffalo bills but I'm still objective. Macking governor is no personal agenda here yes. I do want to watch the bills for USA Radio News. I'm Timberg I'm okay. I need you to listen to me. I know that a lot of times mom. It might not seem what I'm listening to you but I am. I hear you and what's really does matter to me. I mean let's be honest. No Kid likes rules but I got why we haven't. I hear you and I know it's because you care all the talks over the years including what you've told me about not using alcohol and other drugs they stick with me and believe it or not. They really do. Make a difference especially at times matter. Mouths drink nothing some good so thank you for talking and preparing me for what's ahead. Bring mom never giving up and always being my biggest fan. Thank you for letting me know what you expect. So I try to meet your expectations hobby for more information about talking with your kids about underage use of alcohol and other Drugs Visit Underage Drinking Dodd Samsa dot go from San Francisco on the sports byline broadcasting network. You're listening to wrestling observer. Live with your hosts Bryan Alvarez and Mike Simple V. Let's don't everybody Bryan Alvarez here on Wrestling Observer. Live are here everyday Monday through Friday noon Pacific eastern Sunday's re Pacific six Eastern. We got a lot to talk about on the show. Today and most of it is not good from the front page of wrestling observer DOT COM former W WRESTLER. Shad Gaspard currently missing after being caught in a rip current swimming at Venice Beach. California on Sunday may seventeenth teams. You reported today. P police are desperately searching for gas barred after he and his son record among a group of swimmers caught in strong rip current around four PM with lifeguards racing into the water to pull everyone out. The report states gaspard son was ten years old was rescued with one witness telling them. The gas bar directed rescuers to help his son first. Tmz roads at the last time gaspard was seen was when another big wave crashed down on him. During the rescue official with the Los Angeles Fire Department told media. They believe gas. Part did submerge divers and helicopters have been used in the search for gas part. He was at the beach with his son and his wife. Silvana Graphics Ileana Posted Says Gas Ward was last seen at Marina. Delray Beach Anyone. Who has seen him as urged to call nine one one or contact his family guests team together with the JT crime time during his WWe career projects outside the ring of included acting and writing so has noted. He went under yesterday and they were searching. I was told by a friend of his who I believe is there right now. That's the weather had been great for several days but then it just started raining like crazy and all of the rain has hampered search efforts and mixed reports about whether they are still searching right now but it absolutely does not look like good news as terrible story. We met him in two thousand fourteen him. Crime time I got a picture up on my twitter at Bryan Alvarez of crime time with grandparents. It's one of my favorite pictures. Super Nice Guy. Both of them Super Nice guys more on this after the break wrestling observer live if you or a loved one is suffering from physical or emotional condition that has left you unable to work then. 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Eight hundred five nine three seven four nine one call now at twenty eight. I'd struggled with opiate and Meth addiction for twelve years. I didn't said things that the sober me never would have done one day. I realized I was not invincible. Was Not exempt. That's when a friend told me about early Rehab placement. They gave me the tools I needed to get sober. And all it took was the one phone call elite. Rehab can help you start to break your addiction problem and get sober in as little as seven days and we'll work with your insurance provider to help cover the costs. Plus we have traveled assistance programs to get you here by plane or train. Make this free call right now to learn more eight hundred four zero three five nine one to eight hundred four zero three five nine one to eight hundred four zero three five nine one two. That's eight hundred four three fifty nine twelve. Hey travelers. Do you want to save money on your next flight. Then pick up the phone and call. 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That's eight five five three to five seventeen eighty and you're listening to wrestling observer live with Bryan Alvarez and Mike Simple TV on the sports byline broadcasting network show brain Alvarez here wrestling observer alive. Live Mike some video wrestling observer. Dot Com is noted in the opening segment. Shad GASPARD MISSING. And he's been missing for a day. Now which is not good news. It's never over till it's over. But he was in Venice beach and him and his son and many others were in the water and there was a rip current but four PM. So it's almost twenty four hours ago and they sent out rescuers. He allegedly directed them towards his son and these things happen quick and he is believed to have been pulled under and they have been searching has noted for almost less twenty four hours and no sign so very very very sad story his family. I believe is there now. Friend of ours is is there and has noted it was it was sunny and then all of a sudden it was just horrible weather and the worst time to do a search like this as with horrible weather and I guess they were dealing with that. And we're just waiting now but that's a story on Chad and also wanted to mention here very quickly. That on top of that Larry. Kosovska passed away who? I didn't know him very well but I had spoken to him in the past and he had been around for ever writing about professional wrestling and he'd send in questions to the mail bag quite frankly most of the Times that I talked to him with when he had trouble hit trouble logging into the website but still he had been around forever and his last tweet was just talking about how he he didn't feel well and you've got nothing done today. And then today we find out that he had passed away so obviously condolences to him his friends his family all of my dealings with him a super nice guy. This has been an awful day. I don't know what other way to phrase it there but any thoughts. Mike didn't know about Larry or overnight so I just got up a little bit ago. Heard About Shad. So that's actually the first American about Larry who you know corresponded with a lot online and everything. And he's been around a long time and like I started at the tour Tamie. It was me and not not to change us to me but like just to show you how long ago this was Me and Bergen and Lipinski and like a couple of other people had all just started together at the torch. James got men Head all just started at the torch together and he was four one one and it was like he was just like now He was just always like there. Like I didn't know Scott Keith. In Height and though and I didn't know any of them but like with the torch I knew those guys and got to know you all everything through that way but like Larry was always there and Larry to this day I mean like I I actually. I actually had to ask him a couple of years ago. I'm like were you with us at the torch. It's like he's just always been there and it's always been such a good relationship with them and just always really funny and he's been through he's been through some shit and he lost part of his leg and a damn. I didn't know about that. The Shad thing was bad enough. And Damn that sucks and just the only thing I can say about the shad thing. I don't want to sound like Dave talking about the corona virus like it's my duty to pass on information but one of the first things you live learn coming down to the shore especially having kids and everything if they're going to grow up around the water as you hear the expression pull you into deep waters and I don't know if that phrase exactly came from rip currents but basically they break happens in the water in the waves as they come in and there's a line and it pulls you out and they can't kill you they can just drag you into deep water and the best thing you can do is not panic and the best thing you can do is if you can swim go sideways. Because that's the only way you can break. It is to go sideways and to to get out of it. And that's only if you're good swimmer go parallel to the ocean. But if you're not try not to panic. And that's basically when people go will how did he. You know calling for a son to be safe because you're just getting pulled out and so they able to get to a son but as ways keep breaking the bigger out there and he panic and you just. He's a big dude and it's hard to. It's hard to be on the Water. When you're that big for that long of a period of time it can be tough so just really sad because I know this directly touches a lot of people that I know and it's just very very very sad is really it really is a pretty crappy day so after I had was a pretty good weekend. So that Kinda sucks if you want to send in any memories of either shatter Larry. Forty five seven eight zero seven five six. Probably not taking phone calls here today. I May I may take phone calls in the last segment restricted to that. I don't really want to have someone come in and call in and ask some wacky question but we do have a lot of emails here. This person God bless Chad. This has been a horrible day in a horrible year first year. Very tragic with the Shad News. Hopefully they find him soon. Even a body is better than never knowing. I would not wish this on anyone spurs in says. I'm fearing the worst miracles do happen. Unfortunately it probably won't be the case here. Truly shows the type of person shed as he put his son I and saved his life. There is truly nolen higher regard than parent literally risking life Their life for their child. Shad went out a hero. This person says if that's how this ends person says I hope they're able to find shad. I am praying for a positive outcome in this tragic situation. Person The news on Shad absolutely horrific. My prayers are with him and his family and many many more. So if you'd like to send in any notes you can I mean on a on a personal note is talked about in the opening segment? Two thousand fourteen? We were doing our observer convention in Vegas and a mutual friend of ours was there and he set it up so crime time could show up at the convention. And of course you know my my buddy. Ed is a head and he's got pictures on on facebook and I have one as well that I've found is I went through all of the pictures. I looked for an hour today to try to find this picture because it was such it brought back such happy memories we got. We got granny. This was back when when granny was still doing a lot of traveling and she actually went to Vegas for the convention. This was two thousand fourteen so she would have been eighty four years old. He got on the airplane. She flew to Vegas and I always had so much fun with with Gradient Vegas because I think even back then I could be wrong. This might have been the last time that you went to Vegas but she was. She's eighty four years old and so she had a cane. And I I if I recall correctly like as we went through the airport she had to to do so in a wheelchair or wheeling are all over but my my memory of grainy in Vegas of whether it was this time or the last time will always be that Lille chair Cain etc soon as you got her in the casino amine she move faster than anybody and I swear to God. I'm not exaggerating. Like she would move no cane. No nothing she would move through the Casino at anyway. We had a chance to introduce her crime time. They were so nice. They took a picture with granny. It's one of my favorite pictures. I sent it to her this morning. She remembers everything about that day and ninety years old. She remembers everything about that day. Which is quite frankly more than I remember. And it's up on my twitter right now if you want to check it out but they were so nice they were so cool. Hung out with him at the pool and in the casino just Super Nice guys and and all the best were still here hoping for the best and we shall see how things turn out but their ego person. You're says shed actually should have been vegas The year before when we were at the pool spent the day teaching. Friend of mine's son had to be a Mac. Daddy that's dispersants. Memory of Chad in Vegas person said so. Sorry to hear about him. I met him and JT. In that. Same Las Vegas get together and have so many fond memories of him at their team also deeply broken up to your about lyric Sonko. I've known since the two thousand a very very sad day more after the break sending your feedback if you've got its wrestling observer live. Have you written a book? You can become a published author with Jordan's publishing the nation's oldest publishing services company countless authors have trusted dorrance for nearly a hundred years to bring their book to the market are professional team will editor text design your book pages and create an appealing eye-catching custom cover plus our authors benefit from Custom Book Promotion Marketing Campaign that. Make your book available where people buy books like Amazon and brick and mortar bookstores? So make this free call right now to claim your free author's Guida publishing don't wait another day take one step closer to realizing your dream of becoming a published author and seeing your name in print. You already written a book so the next thing to do is make this free call right now to Dorn Publishing and get your free guide to publishing call right now. Eight hundred four eight five six zero zero three eight hundred four eight five six zero zero three. That's eight hundred. Four eight five six zero zero three. Are you paying too much for Term Life Insurance? There's a tremendous price war among the major term life. Companies rates have dropped dramatically in the past two years for example. A man aged forty five non-tobacco user one million dollars of coverage is only seventy five dollars per month level for the next ten years or a man aged fifty non-tobacco user can buy a half million dollars of coverage for a monthly premium of only one hundred and ten dollars guaranteed not to change for the next twenty years that's right level rates for twenty years. And if you're a smoker we have great rates for you as well as the term lifeline. We specialize in policies of a half million dollars and above. So if you're looking for new or replacement term life insurance call right now for a free quote really vary by state sample Rick Motivational preferred non-tobacco underwriting exam required to qualify eight hundred eight zero seven nineteen eighty one eight hundred eight zero seven nineteen eighty one. That's eight hundred. Eight zero. Seven nineteen eighty-one. Hi Dr Robert Clapper Chief of Orthopedic Surgery at Cedars Sinai Medical Group in Los Angeles California dedicated to your health. Your life and your sports as a weekend warrior. You know about sports injuries and pain exercises important element and keeping your body's core in good shape to minimize sports injuries. But when you are in pain there is one product that I recommend to my patients and that is Blue Goo Gel Blue Goo consists of proprietary formula developed specifically for the treatment of inflammation and general muscle aches and strains I recommend blue for my patients coping with hip and knee. Pain before surgery especially bursitis and tendinitis give Lugo. Try Call one eight eight eight three zero zero one two three and you'll receive a one week supply of Blue Goo absolutely free. The makers of blue or even paying the shipping. The number again is one eight. Eight eight three zero zero one two three if you want more information on Blue Goo visit online at. Www DOT DU dot com now available at select the big five stores near you. You're listening to wrestling observer. Live with Bryan Alvarez and Mike Simple v on the sports byline broadcasting network. Well I hesitate to even do this but I got a text message from a friend of Shad who is at the beach right now and he just wrote it is officially over packing up so it sounds like they have called off the search. Obviously anything's possible. But it appears the search efforts have been wrapped up so that was at twelve o-on pm so about twenty four minutes ago so we can continue hoping for the best. But it's not sounding good at at this moment here person says giving up your life for somebody you love is the grease active love. I pray that they do find shad person here says next to observer figure four four one one writer lyrics. Sonko is the other wrestling writer. I would follow a true wrestling fan. Who followed every single promotion and we get excellently detailed reviews for them. That were easy on the eyes. May He rest in peace. S- person here says truly sad to hear the song has passed. He has been writing great reviews for decades. I mean we I honest I honestly cannot even remember a time when lyric Sonko wasn't even doing this. I I guess maybe I mean maybe if I think back to like very early like early. Mid Nineties win wreck sport pro wrestling. That's that's that's where her like. It all started for me was you know I had I had AOL for awhile. But I mean from very early on I was on this on this service called Netcom which is now earthlink and my email address was figure for at I x Dot Netcom Dot Com and yes. Of course you know if you if you have ever tried to give someone your your email address and you're explaining its figure for dot I. X. Dot Netcom Dot Com. I mean they're just flabbergasted like Netcom Net dot com no NETCOM DOT COM. I X I X DOT net com. Anyway I still have that email address to this day. If you send an email to figure for at I x DOT COM DOT COM. I've been paying nine ninety nine a month since nineteen ninety five and back then. I was never on prodigy. I don't think maybe briefly but I was always on wreck dot sports dot pro wrestling. It's a news group. I think newsgroups still exist to this day. But I'm not even sure I think it's part of Google now but anyway like that was. That was my memories of the very very beginning of the Internet and you know there are people like Dave Shearer POW INSIDER. Were there at the time. And I I don't remember when I first heard about Larry but like if you told me that Larry has been doing this since the sport pro wrestling. I have no problem believing that he has been around for ever doing these reviews. It's just so sad to hear about this. I guess we're all part of the wave. That was right after the end this. I was so lucky because I was late to technology. We got a computer way late. So I'm kind of like the first sites I remember seeing and I'm really lucky. Considering how many bad sites were out there but the torch in its real primitive stage the observers site in it's really primitive stage. One wrestling and scoops was another one. Scoops this or scoops. This was the parody site. The allies scoop site and like I guess after that I mean. Then that's when Leith Torch Kinda redid everything and then you're saying what when did when did this begin. Two thousand five. The second iteration was two thousand five and I tried to do one in in the early. Two thousand which was A. It was such a disaster that when I started this site. Two Thousand Five I. Is Dave if you wanted to do it. Like to merge in two thousand and five and all he remembered was what a disaster the first the first one we did was and so he was like. I'm never doing a website again so I it was three years before I could convince him to merge I remember it was a little unwieldy the thing I remember most about. It was the banner up top because it was pictures of you and Marvi and Marquez fresh-faced you guys look like you're twelve years old and the picture of Dave. He was just like scowling if he was taking a picture for like an advertisement for Helmet magazine. You want some news. I got scoops and like I don't remember I remember clicking and like the news like everything was fine. I don't remember there being problems. What was the big issue that like caused Dave to lake hate technology? And that's that's I would assume takes a lot for Dave considering like I don't know the battles he has technology but what was the think it had to do with the way the observer was up there and I mean there were a lot of problems I mean it was it was in many ways very much like. Yada it that it was it was just before its time. I mean trying to have a pay wall and and it just I it absolutely did not work and it took three years of effortle you online dot com working and being successful before he finally realized you know what this actually might work and then he came on board and believe it or not it actually did work the second time around but yeah played from my old male. Logan's one hundred and to the chat Mike in the Mid Nineties. Watch porn on VCR. Yes I did probably data. That's eighty eighties porn at that too. So there it is. It is very interesting when we talk about. Like a Larry Kosovska and I mean I like you say that you know Zongpei. That was always the thing too. He's the only other person with that name and the spelling of that name. All the other guys in football right is the hall of fame. Miami Dolphin one of the most famous running backs of the seventy s on the undefeated. Miami Dolphins Super Bowl Team Larry Larry's Saga Action Bronson as a song called. Larry's like all of this stuff which he would play up to the degree which was even better for Larry who just. I love the fact that no matter when Russell he was on. If it was two o'clock in the morning there was a new Japan show and you're on twitter. Larry would be there. This is why twitter sometimes is great because you look rally who are the other idiots who are up with me right now doing this and he would be one of those idiots. We talk about like how we would. I think he called us out for it. I think in a tweet one time when we said how. Can Anybody Watch that much wrestling? Only Dave can do that and he said. Oh No no I. I'm this crazy as well to it was great. I just again. He's just was such a ubiquitous presence. He's going to be his really going to be missing. His work is going to be messed. He's one of those guys. He was never. I don't know I'm sure he clashed with some people. I mean somebody out. There thinks you're deuce whether you did anything to or not. That's just the way the world works. You do you just kind of keep rolling on with it. And it's water off a duck's back and that's he would just kind of keep marching on and I don't know of anybody ever had a problem with them. I don't I can't think of one and if there was one that was probably their fault. It's just I'm going to miss that guy I really am. I read a book once. I can't remember what it is. I'm sure somebody can probably email me but it was. It was basically talking about. How have you look at the top too late night for longtime were Leno and Letterman and they just happened be within five years of each other as far as like age and it was like you know the top two I is in in computing personal computing? It was Bill Gates and and Apple. Tim Cook and they were within five years of each other and the book was just kind of talking about how you know whenever there's like a new technology or there's this or there's that it's like the people that are growing up during that time they ended up being the faces of it and it just continues on and you know it's so amazing to think about not just Larry but there's there's so many people involved in like podcasting and wrestling reporting at wrestling on the Internet. It's like we all just started the exact same time and we're still doing it to this day. It's it's Kinda funny to think about it but you know I it's just you're all our sons is what he's saying. Well no I'm just I'm just looking at like how many people have have come and gone and not only in podcasting and wrestling reporting and everything like that but like an in anything that you look at their so many that have come and gone but there are certain people that start at the beginning that just they linger on forever behind him right now just lingering on forever and you and Larry and Dave and I mean some of those other names that you talked about I mean some of them came and went but like others are still doing it to this day. Just keep on going in you know it. Just it's a reminder to give some love to those other guys even let me we have platforms that we show off because they're high in glossy but there's people who are putting in work whether Greg Oliver as an author Scott -Til as an author and publisher and historian like those of the people to mark James That Lake you know Curt Brown on the West Coast of rock rims. Got A book out about California now Dean Silverstone. Yeah just passed away but math farmer doing work on him you know taking that it towards An- and finding an earth thing these new thing Al gets what he is doing down in with the tri-state state territories and just just all of those guys. I mean we wouldn't be here if you guys listening you guys have been affected by these people. You don't even know who they are and mandate put some great work and it needs to be appreciated. What mentioned by the way on a different note undertaker the second edition of his last ride documentary debuted on the w network yesterday and granny was on the show yesterday and of course grain a big fan of the undertaker and she had a very interesting take on this at that is that she hated it. She said what I love about. The entertainer is the undertaker and his matches. And I just didn't like seeing this documentary where he's just an old broken down man so I'm not gonNa Watch it anymore. I thought that was very interesting. I want to know other people's thoughts on this documentary because he does not break character but now he's really broken characters. What do you think of this documentary back moments ever life attention to anyone? That's written a book or wants to write a book. The process is not that complicated. Take a first step. Even if you write a page today you build momentum and your book will become a reality. The hard part is getting it published. That's when you need to call page publishing. They've got hundreds and hundreds of thank yous from different authors. Just like you they make the process of publishing your new book and getting it sold on line a simple process. You can learn how simple it is right now by calling for your free page publishing new author Submission Kit. One Quick. Three minute phone call. That's all it takes to get free information and learn how you can get your book published. 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And even the government that can help slash your day call the death destroyer now for free information call now eight seven seven three six zero four zero two eight seven seven three six zero four zero two eight seven seven. Three six zero zero four zero two. That's eight seven seven. Three six zero zero four zero two. You're listening to wrestling. Observer live with Bryan Alvarez Similar Vivey on the sports byline broadcasting network. Come on the show Alvarez here wrestling observer lab Mike semper via also wrestling observer DOT COM so producer. Dom asked if I wanted to take calls here today and I suggested no calls today but then I was alerted. That young man is on the line right now and a couple of days ago. He's one of our twitch homeys he tried to call in and I don't know what happened but something went badly awry and the next thing you know he's he's stumbling around on the phone and then he alert says that he thinks he called the wrong number like a drug gritty and Poor Scott's just got it on the chat so I figured that this chance to redeem himself so Anthony. You are on the air. What's going on? I gotTA producer this time so I now know. I'm on the air. Hi wanted to call to remember Larry a bit more. I've been hearing you talk about kind of starting up in two thousand five podcast and the like and some listeners To the show from the twitch homeys probably recognize me as a guy who started in two thousand five of the podcast called rb are and Larry's uncle was one of the I guess that agree to come onto the show and he was great. He promoted our show his articles. I used to have a bet on the show where a big jamie sandwiches for his noble by based on his promos and he ran with that gimmicks and some articles where he would also as just jaime boy in some of his articles two and he just kind of stayed a friend with a couple of the hosts for uh literally up until like now He was apparently supposed to be fill in host about a month ago before it fell through And one of my other CO HOSTS. The prime also was a writer for one and it just really sad because like between him you Mr Alvarez from the death of WCW book and Dave from the live audio wrestling call you three are probably the three guys who kind of became my like wrestling media. Like like regulars and It it just kinda sad that just go through a day like this and just really kinda hitting me very hard in the Celtics feelings So at the very least thank you Mr Alvarez for what you do thank you recipe's Larry's CSONKA and I wanNA thank you very much for the call. Excellent job on that call by the way. But so yeah if you if you WANNA call about shed or Larry. The phone lines are open. But don't call about anything else here today. Let's keep it on topic one. Eight hundred eight seven eight play one eight hundred eight seven eight seven five two nine. We'll put dom to work here. What again one hundred eight. Seven eight seven five. Two nine flexes producer Chops here and eight. Low speed. Brought the law. There Scots. Did you want to an offshoot of the law and one? I love Johnny Way. They were brought up as people to call out as says wonderful people in the community and they are in another one other former partner at the law. Jason Agnew is at Larry on his show is Sunday night show the main event? Show that a couple of times. So if you if you want to hear Larry together on the show or Larry Jimmy Cordero's or you know a bunch of the people that have Ron. We've done roundtables and things like that Brian. I know you've been on there wasn't the long ago you're on another one of his shows so you know just if you want to check that out your you probably could too. If you're looking for some audio Larry either way. It was brought to my attention when Chad was in Ohio valley wrestling. His Gimmick was to beast which in the mid nineties when I was wrestling in our backyard promotion. I was the beast really. Yeah so you could. You can look at Shad and you can look at me. How old were you and one of us was a significantly better beast than the other. Is the backyard Wrestling Federation? I was I was probably seventeen to nineteen I was I was I think at most as the beast one hundred thirty five pounds I think for a lot of it was one hundred twenty five pounds so high school. Juku age there were using into didn't work out all that where you recruiting middle schoolers elementary schools to Russell at that so you can actually be the bees. Well no we were all high schoolers and have a little brother. You can beat up for heat source. Of course we had a we had a whole roster couple of quick news notes here. Casino Ladder Match. We now have all of the participants. Darby Ellen Cococabana Orange Cassidy Phoenix Scorpio. Sky Keeps Abyan Frankie Kazarian and Lucia. Soroush we'll all be part of that. That's coming up this weekend. So the full lineup. We got John. Moxie brody leaf at Awa title Cody Lance Archer for the TNT title. Isla ROSE VERSUS CAR SHIDA NOT Q. No count out elites and Matt Hardy versus the Inner Circle in a stadium stampede match. You've got bread Baker Verses Chris Stat Lander at MJ F versus jungle boy the number one contenders match tag team pre show battle between private party and the best friends. You like the private party music. Sure okay I don't know for some reason that gets me and I've been hard on the aid of youth theme music and I. I should admit they've gotten better. I think Mike Ruckus who does their theme music on followed me on twitter. Because I said some spicy things about the I just think you know when you got that much money you could maybe do a little bit more bringing some people bringing some bigger artists or something like that. I missed that when it comes to wrestling. I miss having a west side gun. Mainstream artists do something on a song. I think private party is one of those groups. They could actually utilize something like that. Actually have a banging club theme instead of it's a private party over and over and over again like I can handle the velvet rope without the security and all that stuff I can understand even weighing in at whatever the the Vicha cranberry is. I wouldn't drink that stuff myself but like the theme music at least could be something something to match them as a team. That's what I'm looking for Daniel in North Carolina. You're on the air what's going on. Hey guys you guys are doing well. had a quick encounter was shot one time. And there's there's a spot where all the wrestlers common go and you know at the end of a show. You have one hundred and two hundred people to stand there. You guys have to death Shad N. J. T. G. at the end of a raw house show standing there. I bet they stood there for thirty minutes Talking to kids and you know dealing with grown men hard Adam and wanting to get you know. Five seconds of their time or whatever but I had friends daughter on my shoulder and she comes to give her a half five. I'll ask you want autographs. She doesn't have anything. He had bandannas on his arm and he gave her one. This girl hasn't washed in about six years. But we'll see your you know without beats. You won't see that band Dan. I got from God and I'm like Yeah Yeah and Just seemed like a really really good really good Business usually doesn't not everybody's that way. I WanNa thank you very much for the call. I mean obviously you know we've gotten an outpouring of folks have talked about what a what a great guy shed is today but I mean even even prior to today. I never heard anything but good things about Chad. A Super Nice Guy is always nice to have been down in Vegas all sorts of people on twitter right now talking about how they got to meet him when he was down there for the convention sell just a really sad story hymie. You're on the air what's going on. I'm here to save the show dude. Well I was GONNA ask now that. Wwe has fired. All these people with these wait. Wait wait hi I gotTa let you go. We're not talking about today. It's either shatter Larry. So that's not saving the show but I wanNA thank you very much you for saving the show by Guinness. Come on Hymie. I made it abundantly clear. What was going on today. This person here says Oh. I guess I'll follow up on this one. Let's see what we've got anything on these topics here. I remember seeing Larry's reviews in the late ninety s upon returning to watching wrestling at twenty twelve. I was happy to see her as reviews. We're still around and played a big part in me getting. I'm John Prideaux. I'm the US OUTTA The economist and host podcast checks and balance. I'm Charlotte Howard. The New York Bureau chief. I'm John Fasten. The Washington correspondent each week. We take a theme shaping American Politics. Right now atop into America's rich history to answer some big questions out of we hold an election and a pandemic. Why is the president trying to raise oil prices? How powerful is the Democratic Party? Machine is America seating global leadership with help from economist. Correspondents around the world we dig into the data. The ideas and history shaping the race for the White House and take a view without taking sides. That's checks and balance. The global view on democracy in America. Subscribe on costs a cost or your podcast APP.

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Friday 30 April

Monocle 24: The Briefing

32:58 min | Last month

Friday 30 April

"You're listening to the briefing first broadcast on the thirtieth of april. Two thousand and twenty one on monocle twenty twenty-four. The briefing is brought to you in association with novartis. Hello and welcome to the briefing coming to you. Live from studio here. Madari house in london. I'm andrew miller coming up on today's program or working or working again. We're dreaming again discovering again. Our related to wild again proving democracy can deliver for the people. Us president joe biden completes his first hundred days. We'll look at how he's doing from the perspective of one of the more prominent of the conservative commentators who supported biden because he wasn't trump later in the show. We'll see if we can figure out. Walt hundreds of former french military were hoping to achieve by signing an inflammatory open letter on the anniversary of an attempted coup. D'etat we'll find out. How china hopes to forestall a potential brain drain from hong kong and malaysia. Andrew for the global countdown they were heading to the land of good electro pop missy. Look just play along will you. It's nearly the weekend. Oh i've read that out loud again having toy that's all coming up right here on the briefing on monocle. Twenty four and welcome to today's edition of the briefing with me and ramallah. Us president joe biden has completed his first hundred days traditionally a moment prompting a widespread and solemn pipe sucking finger steepling assessment of a new administration's progress. Unusually foreign new president however biden enjoys a measure of goodwill from those who in normal circumstances would be praying on his failures in two thousand and twenty as in two thousand sixteen a tendency who became known as the never trump republicans decided that party loyalty mattered less than keeping the gop's bewildering nominee out of the white house may have voted for biden somewhat grudgingly. But vote for him. They did prominent among them. Walls william kristol former chief of staff to us vice president dan quayle and director of republican voters against trump. He's now the editor at large of the book. I spoke to bill earlier. To hear his thoughts on the administration's first hundred days. I started by asking what had surprised him. Where the pleasantly or unpleasantly as of the surprises pleasant. I think the competence of the administration that rough transition. They weren't helped by the trump people. I didn't government. It's hard you taking over massive government. It's not you know. Us weird with the extent Longer transition in some countries present. Of course all these political appointees have to come in. This is a pretty abrupt change. Course so i think it's gone pretty well. Just practically the vaccine rollout has been effective the economic stimulus. I think. Also the the big picture things i think the biden administrations in pretty good shape after one hundred days you ripe for the bulwark february. That perhaps anti-trump could now morph into work with biden. Not merely having helped elect this man because he was infinitely preferable to the alternative that they might be a positive case. Do you feel like that. Now i do i do. I mean it's. It's more liberal agenda than i would like more big government. More faith in government programs will work. Well but fundamentally i think in the american mainstream it's not an attempt to transform american some woke social justice direction it is liberal in the old fashioned sense of the term biden's kind of old fashioned liberal so people like me had our doubts about you i suppose. Fdr was alive that of course but hubert humphrey lyndon johnson type liberalism. But it also did a lot of good things for the country and some of those. Things can be corrected. He we don't have spent all the money by more suspend. But i think fundamentally he is in the american mainstream tradition. I wanted to ask you about that idea of biden as the old liberal. Because you've written elsewhere that biden is a liberal. As opposed to barack obama he described as a progressive. How would you define that difference and these are terms that. Have a lot of the latitude within them. The distinction isn't very firm. Either but i would say. Progressive looks at american. Thanks for an awful lot to apologize for an awful lot of farm dot around the world at home we really need to fundamentally changed things and also great belief in history going in a certain direction and we gotta get out ahead of history with a capital age. That's that's kind of the progressive view. I think the liberal view is a little more look. America has flaws but as -ccomplish awful lot. We have to build on what we've accomplished when you listen to buy in the state of the union or quasi state of the union that. He gave the speech to congress. It wasn't a guy who was apologizing about america's pass store or thinking that we have to sort of fundamentally turn assery different kind of nation. We have to prove some things. Fix some things and build on progress made in the past. And i think that is more of a traditional liberal with swallow or capitol hill in the british context tradition in a little less of a kind of progressive with a capital p point of view. Do you think perhaps because of that. The more guests ferocious and vituperative of american conservative media. And even of america's conservative politics is finding it hard to get people round up about. Joe biden. Doing their best. They're inventing things they're also. There are some legitimate things. Of course people can complain about and then you can take every instance of often foolish somewhat dangerous. Even you know woke leftism on campuses and so forth and try to say. That's what the biden administration's about i did. A pretty has done a pretty good job of voiding boast bad. It's gonna be a little more little. There'll be a little more than i than i'd like. I worry that occasionally the democrats and give ammunition so to speak to the to the irresponsible conservatives and allow shoes to be demagoguery biden has gone out of his way. He's not a defunding. The police guy. He's not apologized for america. Guy he's not withdraw from the world and shame. What america's effect on the world has been since nineteen forty five. He's much more more liberal tradition. So i think it's a little hard for the right to demonize budgets. They're trying to. This is something we've talked about before when it became apparent when the trump interregnum or aberration was coming to an end that an optimistic look at the republican party would hold that maybe this was just a four year fever dream it has now broken. The party will now return to normal ish and we'll go back to being that sort of sensible stolid voice of mainstream american conservatism deep perceive. Any sign of art happening. I mean it's been striking how little that's admit. I didn't quite believe it. What happened. But i thought the people who argued it what happened. Were crazy and it could happen. I think the truth is this. The point of view expressed well. How was the point to do of someone like liz. Cheney than three republican in the house the daughter dick cheney who went along withdraw. Much that i would have and i we get about this over four years. She voted for most is legislation. Voted against impeaching over ukraine. Voters supported him not with great Outspokenness but as reported his reelection and so forth And then the trump loss and she. I think expected okay. We'll now we can all move on. We all said privately just putting up with him to try to get through these four years and now let's get back to a healthy conservative. Then trump challenges the election incites the riots. On january six propagates the big lie alicia janey looks around most of her colleagues in congress and most of her colleagues in the conservative movement are going along with trump and indeed in some cases echoing him and making it even worse than it was before and i think he see the the fiercest submerged. Cheney's reaction to that. Which i admire the sense of the eick's it's not a parenthesis. It's not going away of its own now. I wish her well in trying to stand up to it. But she's clearly minority among republicans in congress among republicans in the country among conservative elites even so all that being said if in two thousand and twenty four if by two thousand twenty four. The republican party has managed to pull itself together sufficiently to nominate somebody saying ish at least for the presidency. Whether it's a halio pompeo scentists pence. Would you vote to reelect president. Joe biden well it depends how he does obviously and how policies worked out and what the administration looks like by the but i'm dubious about the republicans you mentioned at not for me a clear or clean enough break with trump. And unless you're willing to make the break let you don't have to denounce did but if you're willing to say we are a post trump party we are we are we repudiate two things. He did in january six and so forth less. You will say that. I'm very doubtful that they can resist the pull of trumpism on the conservative side. So i'd be inclined to prefer into them so just as a final thought then if within the realms of possibility one thing that as a semi reluctant conservative addition to the joe biden bandwagon. One thing you would like to see him do in his first term. What would it be mean. I think just be careful to avoid. The traps of woke progressivism both practice but a lot of it is also rhetorically except for example. Let's have a bipartisan agreement. Let's work really hard on for police. Reform biden mentioned that in his speech. Let's not demonize the police and look this plenty to criticize the. Let's not let them conservatives say they want to defend the place the coast of issues like that where biden could be liberal more liberal than i would be but he he really needs to not look like someone who wants to take everything the progressives have been four and then just extended even more he needs to look like. He's liberal new american tradition. That was bill. Kristol editor at large of the bulwark. Speaking to me earlier you are listening to monocle. Twenty four here is paid reynolds with the days of the headlines. Thanks angie at least. Forty-four people were killed and dozens more injured during a stampede. At a religious festival in northern israel hundreds of thousands of all jews had traveled to the sacred site of mount merrin to celebrate loughborough omar with the lighting of bonfires. Last year's event was heavily restricted to covid nineteen russian leader alexei. Navalny appeared in court yesterday via videolink from prison. It's the first time the kremlin critic has been seen in public since holding a twenty four day hunger. Strike the hearing comes as his anti-corruption foundations network of regional headquarters face closure by the russian government during his parents. Navalny brandon president vladimir putin a naked stephen king and united nations brokered talks intended to restart. The peace process in. Cyprus have ended in failure. Un secretary general antonio guiterrez invited representatives of the island's greek and turkish governments to geneva in order to resolve more than forty a conflict but both sides failed to reach an agreement tune into this week. Special episode of the foreign desk for more on this story. Those are the day's headlines back to you andrew for q page. You are listening to the briefing with me andrew. Mullah now in modern democracies the compact between the elected civilian leadership and the military essentially boils down to the following. Whatever disagreements occur behind closed doors in public the military does it is as it is told indeed and does so quietly political interventions by retired soldiers are by serving soldiers more or less taboo so an open letter signed by hundreds of former and a few serving french military including twenty retired generals. Warning of impending civil war is quite a statement as is the fact that it was published in the notably right-wing magazine velo. Well will joining me with more on. This is feeling malia professor of french and european politics at uc l. first of all a possibly a bit of context about the relationship between francis government and france's military is unusual in that respect. Does the french military have a habit of piping up good afternoon. No indeed as you say. It is highly unusual and makes everyone of us by the way when of The military your knee representatives of the army at just meddle with Domestic affairs and. That's what this statement. This open letter published in the nfl. Right publication i would save actually seen in franz's foul right publication as dawn. And that's why of course it has taken aback. Lots of people government stopped with and You might argue that. The highest ranked people sign up the letter off retied. Yes but they are twenty of them. And what's more when. I think this is something which is worse worth stressing. Is that those twenty retired generals who i suppose still have links and connections within the in the army all politically active and they all politically active on the far ride with me looked ends a national rally. Our party. i mean it's just what this letter said and where they said it also when they chose to say it now. I'm sure the people who wrote and signed later. Were well aware that they publish this on the sixtieth anniversary of a failed. Coup d'etat against a president as even well shall to goal what to communicate here and who were they trying to communicate to. Yes i i agree with you. Symbolically the date chosen for publication wasn't wasn't sort of the left wasn't on randomly like and the very fact it was published in violence trail publication which Whose people have the hand you know in. The past declared the sympathies for the soul of colonial past. Oh france notably The establishment over colin energy area is surprised. And i think this is quite telling that they should publish the letter on the very sixty years after the an attempted. Coup d'etat geria-. When four retired generals at the time attempted to overthrow the existing government of the time and the president chance to go simply because the goal had started the process of decolonization. So that shows little thing of course it remains to be seen a to the extent to which those retired generals and people signed the letter. What kind of support they actually have in the army. And and of course the the chief. The general chief of off all of all armies and france general. Look want a made a statement. I think he took a few days for him to come out to be fast. That's also the slow ness is also quite interesting to say to dismiss those people to say that those serving currently will be disciplined so so some might be put in retirement immediately with immediate effect as for the retirement of course He dismissed them saying that. That's not not. They are betraying the values so to speak of the army. The should have remained neutral. They shouldn't meddle with politics and if they do so they should do. It's in their incapacity not involve the all me and the name and traditions of the so. This is where we are but just a last point is that it took several days for this this the boss oil armies in france so to speak to come out and make that statement. The same applies to the government. The floss bodily. Who is the administaff wolf for for for the army's also It took a few days for her. To sort of benignly i would say condemn the the statement this great embarrassment about that in france but we do need to look at what the letter actually said as well freshman all speak of their own fees of a civil war way to they think that's coming from and again. What do they count on the support. The french public because at least one poll suggested that fifty eight percent of french people kind of agree with them. Yes that's great. According to policethe we could probably take that poll with a pinch of salt. I think the sample was quite small of people interviewed. And of course it would need to be concerned by by by other polls but assert. Of course that's quite worrying. I think essentially the game is quite clear. It's the the payroll so to speak are islamism. Which in france when you talk about islam islamism radical islamism. Some people are notably on the far right tend to provide and same category and also they target what they called in a letter holds found the so-called lost territories of the reprobate which is a sort of a quite a statement infringe politics which are the lost territories. It's essentially suburbs outside of the major cities. Where you flying. A large concentration of working class population from ethnic minorities and those are the people that the military in that letter and i open letter are targeting so according to them you know. Some people in society are dividing up The the national community trying to rush racialized. That's the word they used russia. Is you know typical political conflicts. Not long you know socioeconomic lines but along racial divides and they will so very interestingly point to d colonial theory which is normally something. You're discussing university. But why because in france as you probably you may have already reported your listeners. Is that as being. You know a a an ongoing debate about so-called islamu leftism inner it's built upon what islam and leftism people on the left and makes have been branded by ministers in the current government. As you know trying to collude with radical islam and sort of and sort of push word in this kind of radical islamist of values so in a sense they are just a surfing on that kind of wave which has really shifted the debate in france to the right and of course it's playing in look towns hands because that's the things she's been telling for years so in a sense that statement from From the military people here is just the latest episode in an ongoing culture war. That's the way i would. I would call it around islam. Republican values. ict which is french ties secularism. All this. they're taking a down. A they are close to the national front through the tutuila. Lapenne party but a lot of the items. We are up in. That letter have been in fact publicly discussed in mainstream media and politics and i suppose that's why the government and the media embarrassed by philippe. Molly thank you for joining us. You are listening to the briefing on monocle. Twenty four years is proud to partner the briefing on monocle. Twenty four navarre's. This is a company that is committed to reimagining medicine. Global health care leader intent on changing the practice of medicine. Navarre's has been exploring uncharted frontiers in science for more than a century. Today the company is working on breakthrough treatments that pushed the boundaries of human understanding and biology data science and engineering to develop and deliver therapies. That help people live longer and healthier lives around the world. Novartis reimagining medicine. You are back with the briefing on monocle. Twenty four in the years immediately after hong kong was returned to china in nineteen ninety seven. It was widely if optimistically assumed that china would leave hong kong more or less alone that the city was to commercially valuable to oppress in more recent times. China has demonstrated the floor in this assumption. And its client. Government in hong kong now seems to be taking measures in the shape of a new immigration law which appeared designed to forestall one obvious likely consequence of its crackdown. I e a large-scale exodus of hongkongers to places which will be grateful for their talents and easier for them to live in well joining me. Now is shabani mahtani southeast asia and hong kong bureau chief for the washington post shabani first of all the new immigration law itself. What measures does it contain which might actually keep people in hong kong. Yes so this. New immigration law basically gives unfettered and Shockingly broad powers to hong kong immigration director to effectively. Stop anyone from leaving the country in stop set an airlines of from carrying them and it also stops people from coming in and so if the immigration directa has decided that x either cannot enter or leave hong kong Then they can do that without being subject to a court order. Which is it real expansion of college And inputs that decision rabi in the in in immigration direct. His hand right which i think is very shocking to people. Does this suggest that china has now decided that all other considerations economic ones commercial ones cultural ones even hong kong status as a major international air hub a now secondary To just absorbing it further and further into china yeah. That's a really interesting question. Because i think that in many ways they're trying to have it both ways. They're trying to sell this new new law as you know something that it's only going to be targeting inbound flights that it's only going to be targeting illegal immigration and asylum seekers to hong kong but the fact is hong kong doesn't actually have that many asylum seekers nor accept them and the timing of this obviously comes amid the broader crackdown and amid a what. What is shaping up to be an exodus right from from hong kong to places like the uk australia canada. The us and other places around the world so yeah. It's it's hard to see this as a sort of disconnected. Even though that they're trying to sell it. And i think the reason they tried to sell it As something that is not gonna affect that many people that is something that just affects inbound flights even though the law and the legislation itself does not say that i think shows how conscious the hong kong government is of the business community right and how they will respond to this and how they will see this. I mean just now. I got three emails in my inbox. About why invest in hong kong briefings to meet british business leaders about why hong kong is still a good place in a gateway to the mainland. I it really does seem like they're trying to have it both ways. Whether it's going to be like this by the business community. I think remains to be seen the in your experience especially when you've been talking to people in recent weeks and months how widespread he's series talk among people that there's nothing worth hanging around for going to get out while they can. Oh it's extremely widespread like every conversation in hong kong now revolves around this idea of leaving the sustain right Every every person. I catch up with You know i. I work with a local hong kong reporter who also says the same things about her family conversations in conversations with friends and you know this is not just the the the protests says. It's not just young people right but it's the middle class. It's lawyers bankers accountants. One teacher recently told me that about twenty percent of teaches. He knows from a single school Planning on leaving When when the summer a rolls around right because obviously that's going to be a natural time. And i think obviously the current virus was holding things back but now that things are normalizing and other places around the world you know i. It looks more appealing option for for many people right. And i think that you know. So many people The propaganda education system that we are seeing is is too much right of young children in any want to raise them in a in a critical thinking sort of environment. And you see what's happening to that you kitchen system here that that's going to be very worrying for you right so i think it's a real. It's a real thing that a lot of people making the decisions every single day. Shabani mahtani with the washington post in hong kong. Thank you for joining us. You're listening to the briefing on multiple twenty four. You are listening to the briefing monocle. Twenty four with me. Andrew regular listeners will have been expecting the global countdown to of appeared yesterday which is thursday. Is it usually. Doesn't frankly. So was i and i wasn't hosting yesterday. And i thought. I'd gotten away with it but i haven't because it's friday and fernando augusta pacheco and global countdown are right here. Can you imagine for a person like we've ocd. Like me too. It's friday no thursday. I'm really sorry listeners. But we have a very should be apologizing to sorry andrew. Which which country are we going to. We're going to france. Which i have to say a big influence in my life french music so it's always a very special country to go and it's it's quite. It's quite an interesting five. Hundred mixture of genres kind of countries is always not only french. Artist starts encouraging as we may have discussed in this space before fernando wa agree that france is a nation of many strengths. I remain unpersuaded. That it's popular. Song is among them. I will change your opinion today and no you want blended at number five and number five hundred beautiful ballots. Coal mine fields ends by a moroccan canadian singer fowzia. She's only twenty with john legend. Let's have a listen. I am sensing fernando that the minefield is being employed as a metaphor. Exactly i mean you know. He's not really my kind of music. But she's quite popular and you know she's doing kind of a rabbit. Versions of kelly clarkson songs as well. Somebody has to write. Did they not think of. I mean they could really have drilled metaphor home with maybe some effects of explosions and so on like just a huge eruption on every downbeat didn't happen unfortunately so this is why i should be producing popular song ballads. And she should be. I don't know maybe she could have a at presenting this exactly if she's available next friday or indeed thursday. Whatever we decide to do this on at number four number four symphony a little bit more exciting. He's quite a long career. Actually is a french rapper. Even though the songs not quite wrap it's actually there's a lot of synthesizers quite a bit The sony's is by soprano the twa near the stars. Tony okay and up. Basically what's happened is someone's thought wouldn't it be amazing if we made record. Which somehow suggested that together at last we had sean. Michelle and michael bolton. It's a good combination. Why not and you just heard the reason why you never catch move those andrew but soprano what about him as well. This great merchandising. On his website tells me and the. It's amazing i mean there's so many types of jumpers you can buy with all types of coauthors. Well done soprano audubon well. I'm seriously considering. I mean. I do like the truck but preferred the jumpers. Maybe we could do a top. Five jumpers is. Is that going to be a thing could could you be. I don't know. I'm just thinking out loud. Could debut special global countdown jumper. You could wear if wait you know what i think it could and could be in the plans for this year. Who knows at number. Where are we up to now number. Three number three it. It's an interesting song because he is actually a french slam poet but he released an album that it's kind of a best selling album. He's doing very well. In france his name is glencore milad copper. Because he's quite a tall guy 195 again. I love some hide statistics year and this song. So he's a french slam poet and yet very tall exactly okay. And he's singing. We've gone one of the biggest biggest pop stars in france. The song is called the here the poland behind the fog. Let's have a listen seat. Dan does been shuntei. Show daily spaw. No i am unmoved. I'm quite moved. I think it's such a. It's such a beautiful track is quite confessional as well and you know and i would agree that they should certainly be confessed. Something but but what are they actually confessing to in this song or is your french. Not up to it. My friends not quite open to the behind the fog kind of bad mental state. In a way so you don't exactly know what to do with furiously number two number two something very club friendly and the french are good that they're french deejays With wasted love. This is very good when the club's reopen again let's have a listen dome give china's hotel it strikes me as very likely that will you go and say this person or indeed people perform live that at some point you would be exhorted to wave your hands in the air like you. Just don't care. That is the thing that they would do. Isn't it i. even you will do it after a few drinks. Perhaps steph studio manager was literally just doing it right then and you missed it. Amazing amazing an engine number one thing. I have to say before you criticize. I mean i. I like about this artists that he's a proper kind of eighty five popstar because this we're going to hear the fourth single of his latest album and it's talk in the charts. The remember the time of michael jackson madonna prince. Where do i am that ancient. So here it is. I mean he's he's one of the few popstars. I think has so many singles actually top the charts in just one album and i think it's a very good song as well a lot of same talking about eighties. Let's listen is the weekend. Save your tears. The beautiful is is this going to be number one everywhere forever like that other one of those. I mean i try my best choose countries where he's not number one because i do believe any wate. He just had a version of that track with ariana grande. So artists are doing this to stay on top with new remix of the same song. That's something that is a big trend in recent years. That's cheating i know. Do we need to start adjusting. The top five four such skulduggery cheating days on the chart. Sandra outrageous but fernando guest shapiro nevertheless. Thank you as always that. He's all for this edition of the briefing. It was produced by missile. And marcus hippie. Studio manage it wall steph The briefing returns on monday at the same time midday uk. I'm andrew miller. Thanks for listening. Have a great weekend.

biden hong kong joe biden america france gop Madari house hubert humphrey lyndon johnson army biden administration congress alicia janey eick novartis china Cheney mount merrin loughborough omar Navalny russian government
62 - How the Republican Party Became the Trump Party with Bill Kristol (Part One)

Politics: Meet Me in the Middle

41:05 min | Last month

62 - How the Republican Party Became the Trump Party with Bill Kristol (Part One)

"From kurkcu media strange times a bit overwhelming actually politically meeting in the middle is no longer assuming. Democrats versus republicans but now far right or far left of either party versus interests can be just as frustrating. Frankly we find ourselves challenged by our own political team these days our guest today. Bill kristol is an internationally recognized political analysts who had been known for his conservative approach. But as a level-headed centrist. He's subject to a tidal wave of foreign radical republicans whose behavior can sometimes boggles the mind his observations and commentary on all major news channels. Show that he understands our challenges. Let's see if he has any solutions. So stick around for part. One of the bill kristol politics. Meet me in the middle. I'm bill curtis once again. My co-host jane. Albrecht is an international trade attorney who fought for. Us economic business interests to high level government officials around the globe. She's a member of the us. Supreme court bar and she's also been involved with several us presidential campaigns. Hey jane how you doing fine always could be unwelcome bill. Bill kristol is that infamous american neoconservative political analysts. That you see almost daily on cnn. Cnbc msnbc fox. Everybody wants them for his insight and kanter political magazine the weekly standard and he's now the editor at large of the bulwark and he has his own podcast. Aptly named conversations with bill kristol. I'm going to avoid the bill versus billy subject as he must be really tired of it. So welcome bill kristol. Nice to have you good to be with you both. So let's get to it. Is there a pass to a republican party that focuses on governing people rather than the far right shocking politics. There's a path whether it's a very wide path or very narrow path. That's going to be very hard to navigate is a real question on fairly pessimistic in the short term because of the transformation of the party of the last five six years they're already problems indications of problems but trump is both done a lot of damage and a symbol. I suppose real change the party. I think that goes way beyond just having some views that people might disagree with to being uninterested in governing and quite interested in a very destructive demagogic politics. I am short-term pessimistic about the republican party. If you had to be kind of the google maps of how do we get from here to a place where. There's a republican party that we all respect and appreciate. What are some of the first directions that you would give. I mean it would be helpful. If trump isn't didn't work politically electorally if republicans paid a price for going in that direction and they paid some price. Obviously trump was not reelected. Unfortunately for my point of view it wasn't a blowout two thousand twenty. The republicans picked up seats. They almost have the senate. They ended up losing it in georgia january fifth but they had fifty senators have majority's they governorships. They picked up seats action state legislatures. They think they're gonna win the house. Twenty twenty two so usually a party fixes itself Fix itself but it's been repudiated by the voters either at the state level or the federal level but that really hasn't happened decisively enough. I'm afraid in this case a b. Sometimes parties fix themselves with infuriated. Look at the california republican party. They just got a descend into irrelevance to some degree. And that's it's hard to believe in national party. When are two major parties can do that and of course the scary thing is that the party may succeed by being trumpy. Well certainly it's on. Its way to succeeding right now. Everything that they're doing no matter how at -rageous it seems to be working. Well yes they did. Lose both houses of congress residency joe biden's reasonably popular already passed one big economic package in bollywood. Pass others. you know so depends on how you look at it. But i think the dynamic within the party remains from my point of view bad in the sense that demagoguery awarded extremisms rewarded conspiracy theories or not repudiated for me the biggest example moment this cain clear was january sixth november third trump lost to a few days took three the world. Today's stephen sure he had but republicans gradually accommodated to that trump. Didn't but one could've fought in may be december. The you know the fever will break. People will drift away. From trump is not going to be a a noble exercise of confessing. They were wrong or shooting him at his way of politics. Kind of gradual. Just leaving it behind. I think that was not an unreasonable thing to hope for. Wouldn't have been as. I say the most notable thing in the world but sometimes that's how it works in politics but january six. I mean the fact that that has not changed everything. That trump hasn't paid huge price for one can tell that the trump supporters to people really involved in propagating. The big lied instigating. The violence haven't paid a huge political price than most republicans. Just keeping their heads down and not talking about it and a lot of just going along for me that that's very bad very badly short-term indicator where the alicea powers and the republican party so i can't help but quote jane to you for minute because oh we did talk about this interview before we started it in okay. She equates some of the first steps out of where the republican party is as kind of going to a rehab. She says when it comes to the republican condition in a rehab program. You have to start by identifying your own role in the predicament. You find yourself in and only then can you start down. The road of healing can the republicans recognize what resulted in the donald trump party. So i mean. I think some have and some of us agree on some of the things that we were four and some of the people. We thought were okay. Sorta back back in the day. We always thought there were problematic. Elements publicly fought some of the developments. I spent a lot of time fighting. Pat buchanan ron paul. And people like that. We thought we'd sorted defeated them. Charlie sykes says there is a recessive gene in the republican party and the bad news. Was there the good news is that it was recessive to the time that mitt romney orion john not fanning those flames engaging in that kind of demagoguery but it was there was building up the second term president obama. I think turns out. In retrospect i hadn't quite seen it at the time. Gotta say people really want a little off the deep end and that of course trump in twenty six at all came together. I personally don't believe that unless you come to grips with trump especially the big live at the election but in general the demagogry the mean-spiritedness database of unless people say no to that doesn't mean they have to grovel at apologized for weeks on end doesn't mean the after even say they were wrong necessarily to vote for him once or twice they can rationalize that with some of the things they think that happened. There were okay. They need to come to grips with with what happened. Was recent republican president. Trump wasn't just like another random set largely jalen greens senator Member of congress or random governor somewhere. There's a little embarrassing. He was the republican president united states supported by the republican party at the national level in a very strong and almost uniform way. Well he didn't start that way back in two thousand fifteen. He was the laughing stock of the republican party. One can write a scenario trump. Lindsay wins denomination. Sort of fluky twenty. Sixteen you know love divided field the a couple of issues a beats hillary clinton the general election. Because she's not such a strong candidate want change and so forth against lucky intellectual college. The russians helping you can write a scenario where the republicans who control both senate and house standing up to trump. They refused to go along with certain things he wants to do. They make clear that he's president. Obviously they respect that but they are gonna make up their own minds about issues and you can write a scenario where members of his cabinet really stand up to him and not just a few of them in those few. Don't just pushed aside. And where the republican electron course doesn't seem to have an insatiable appetite for trump's demagoguery. But that's not the scenario that happened in history for me. Enabling of trump by the republican party is almost as important destruct themselves you could have had trump was kind of a one term sort of presidents sort of a fluke sort of embarrassing frankly to damage. But you know kind of like Unfair probably jesse ventura or something has governor of minnesota schwarzenegger. I think it's unfair to shore snake series. I you know. Scharzenegger gives fun term. One after governor. You know life goes on afterwards. You could have imagined that with job. But that would have required republicans on the hill not to sort of go down the path of emulating in and enabling him and imitating him and once that starts to happen. What's the whole party became. Trump's party that everything got deeper. Everything sunk deeper. The damage was more serious for people who haven't been deeply involved in politics but even for those who have how did it progress. That trump ran is an outside candidate with no real support from the rnc. Then he gets the party nomination at which point you begin to work with aaron c. Was very much a big fundraiser. But how did it go from this outside candidate to him. Really taking over the republican party. Does that happen. What were the steps. That sort of got the party there. Trump is clever. In that way i think some of the things he did and he was always focused on power. Not obvious policy. He put his own people a certain jobs. We made clear that they're continuing certain jobs would be by following his directives and not just following but being agile tori of him or or endeavors tolerating any criticism at people. Like me looked at that early out of. That's ridiculous you a party. Fifty fifty two. Whatever independently elected republican senators senators at pretty big egos. They're elected by the citizens of their states than just going to go along with trump as the president. He deserves a certain respecting differences. If your party. But then i just could pull ride been washing longtime speaker of the house. Incidentally in normal administrations they don't get difference. Obama didn't get that kind of difference from his own party. In george w bush didn't in the rebellions all the time they could have gone along with him on policies that they agreed with but they could have drawn a line and they chose never to draw line combination of him being successful. Believe them being cowardly being smart about your really connor shing or couple who turned the Stood up to him and said of isolating them at once. A had no political futures to jeff flake of the world in the bob corker. Everyone else decided. They wanted to have a political future. Giving the establishment types enough that people could rationalize endlessly all the rest of the abasement and the really bad behavior and and the sort of harassment. Moment that they had to swallow to say there he was pretty smart about that. I mean he. He saw what issues mattered the business. Class donors water. The tax cuts the deregulation lot of social conservatives. Wanted the judges those two he was. He's stuck with avid. He was pretty fall of his craziness over flaky. As trump was pretty disciplined in making sure that he didn't give those core constituencies a reason to desert him. From my point of view. Those constituencies could have had a little courage not necessarily gone along with them just because they got certain things but they were in this rationalizing mode fox news in those people. Very good at demonizing the democrats. So god forbid you could actually have the democrats win anything that would be just the end of the country the whole partisanship polarization and tribalisation of our politics kicked into so a lot of different things happened. Was it the fact that he was a prolific fundraiser. Wants he hooked up with the rmc. He really was quite a cash cow for them. And how much did that play into it. I think it did a fair amount because politics has become so much about fundraising that was kind of. Mitch mcconnell is calling card. He was a good fundraiser than turns out trump's even better fundraiser and more. I think that what trump could really. I remember sort of ridicule. I trump criticize you. And you'll be in trouble. As congress literacy. Senators through been elected may often much more than once or twice. The president says something critical of you. Tweet something critically so what you know. Everyone knows politicians. I'd disagreements it turns out your numbers could go from sixty five percent approval among republicans in your district to thirty five percent approval in four days. And that now. If you are a little more courageous you say you know what i can get some of those numbers back. I could live with that. Maybe i'll lose at the end of the world but they got the degree to which they all just decided. Oh my god. This guy can destroy us. You know a few strokes on on twitter amazing and therefore we're going to just go along with with almost everything when it's crucially. They balked on a couple of things. But there are very few of will be right back On medicine were still practicing. Join dr steven payback and bill kurtis for real conversations with the medical professionals who have their finger on the pulse of healthcare in the modern world. Available all your favorite pod casting platforms produced by komiya. Now here we are. Seventy four million people voted for trump again after everything after the pandemic i mean now. Some a lot of the water just wanted a republican administration. I know people who voted for trump. Obviously i'm disappointed in some of them to be one of the lessons. This is a broader thing but of the last four five years. It's been the power of rationalization i mean. People can talk themselves into a lot of things that if you're on the outside or on the other side of the argument you just cutting almost can't believe it really what why. This is. Not a real. This is crazy but you know it is a little bit the frog in the water right get used to one thing. Something else happens you kinda okay. I guess i could live with that and then suddenly you're living with something the six months before if you said to some of these senators you're going to be defending acts or docking questions on why you're refusing to condemn z. They would have said you crazy. That's possible Mentioned psychological alcoholics anonymous type thing or whatever other people compared to abusing those family members or something ray rationalize it would be too hard to. You know he'll change or that bad this good aspects to it and you know it starts off maybe with a very mild thing that you're rationalizing and a year or two later it's pretty dreadful Prepare politics really dreadful personal things. But i think there's a little bit of that well but it is bell it. It is like a colton pretty soon. You can find yourself drinking cool eight. Yeah i guess so. I mean wasn't quite that bad. But i mean someone like sean spicer. Might you slightly. We all knew in washington. Republican offered tied not the most talented. I wouldn't say of the of the press spokesman types but know kind of a regular person wasn't he didn't get up in law every day for twelve hours and then he goes to for trump and saying things that are just manifestly ludicrous. Ludicrous right at right from the beginning from the white house podium. Not from the rnc not from some campaign somewhere. Safai some campaign for senate. They're exaggerating from the white house. And somehow if i were looking that's lying he can't be doing that he's gonna pay a big price. How many times did we hear that. They're gonna pay a price for this will get away with this. He turned out to be right with his fifth avenue thing total. That was the deepest inside the ad. I could shoot someone with avenue they would support me and that was absolutely true but individually what happened to summer lateras blessed at all but people who had a certain code where they weren't maybe prophecy courage before that but they were certain code of things. They wouldn't do it. All just crumbled. I worked in the white house and we had this. The george h.w bush administration that we had about sense that this is the white house. Whatever we did in our other walks of life when we were. I was professor. People were business politics at other levels. You have to behave in a certain way how we weren't god knows. Paragon of virtue of people said things that turned out to be not entirely true and they cut corners. But while it's water who was george w bush's press secretary refused to say the words democratic and republican from the white house podium see thought. I'm not like the republican national committee press secretary. I'm not mitch. Mcconnell or the equivalent. Press secretary under president united states spokesman. He would say at times. I don't agree with this criticism of the president. I think this is unfortunate. Vote by the senate obviously had positions but it would not engage in partisan politics is just thought that is raw and of course we all tried to live up to some version of that you might say a neck But was corroded over the years since the ninety nine years old but the degree to which trump just everything collapsed at again. Decent people who we knew. I knew served in the george w bush white house suddenly richest justifying things that they would have been shocked and appalled by if it happened in the white house served in a decade earlier and the decent people did their best on that one criticizes. Everyone went in. I mean if you went in and tried to your best for the country's sake for national security. Jim adolescent like that. I think it's a reasonable judgment to have made but almost everyone went into do good ended up leaving and realizing at some point it was just it asked it s too much. They couldn't do enough good interesting. What were some of the things that you personally would like to go back and have a do over your position and some of the things that you said. You felt that the time that you felt right now you'd like to go back and change. You don't have thought about that. A fair amount. Ozzy wanted to give sensible realizes winds make mistakes. Generally i think i became too partisan to embedded in Comfortable conservative World outta me comfortable financially particularly but just kind of intellectually comfortable. You know a lot of smart people on your side and you reading each other arguments and some issues. I took physicians educated controversial australian foreign policy. I don't regret actually May regret particular aspects but in general the right view of the world as they could still is that better but not a lot of some of the economic issues a lot of the social issues that was just a kind of oblivion. I think we just told ourselves certain things true. We didn't listen to people of good faith on the other side. I think on race i was pretty blind to how i was not bigoted i believe in you know. We thought our policies would help. African americans just like other americans self worth. But i don't think we understand policing for example how bad the situation just was in reality. This we didn't want to hear it told us such a big problem. So there are individual cases. I guess sarah palin. I daily i credit for panel own blame. Maybe deserve i was for john. Mccain digging joe lieberman Running mate this is interesting view since. You're a centrist. Renner it'll tight. I've got a piece in the new york times and sunday week It will be the only way to have a chance to beat brock obama and it'll be unity for the country. Both very impressive people day began which that will mccain did. His people thought do public convention. Lebron's not pro-life could happen anyway. That maybe just a long while ago for someone. None of us knows well had met her once. But you know she was pretty popular. Yarden alaska. She turned out to be a total lightweight. And and an unfortunate victim. I will say this. And maybe in a way. A little bit of a harbinger of what was going to happen in terms the populace drive. I think that's a fair point to make that. The these of dumbing down the palin represented you might say was the band signed. What was to come having said that if you actually look at the campaign wasn't a brilliant candidate but she took regains positions on things. She was not a right wing. She wasn't a nativist. She was pro-immigration when she was first introduced. I the political appeal of her. I thought it was actually fairly smart choice. Just wasn't enough there. They're peoples in those say didn't start at all. I don't think so it's hard to know. Really what look every party especially with the two of them in a country like ours is going to have elements in a tendencies groups. That are sort of distasteful will have a tendency to go off the deep end. God knows i met them when it came to washington served in the reagan and bush administration and some of them. Look if they were your allies. You didn't. We didn't probably call them out on things as much as we should have but we did have lines that we did think on the whole if we tolerate certain things we love. We also were helping. Take the edge off and get these people sort of more integrated if i could put simulated into the mainstream and went david. Duke for example made the runoff in louisiana and ninety one when we were in the bush. White house is kind of the republican. Who was not partisan Candidate we were appalled. George w bush went out and denounced him and ended up urging people lose zander to vote for democrats had wherever you know for the enough for the not for the kkk candidate. So we all headlines. I thought i remember saying to some reporter ninety two be kennedy challenged cannon in the general election. I'd love for clinton you know. Even though i was very loyal reagan bush republican so maybe i've always had a little. I don't know. I think we all did try to maintain certain boundaries. I'm not sure we always did so with perfect success but think both parties try to until the last few years i guess one of the big changes broadcasting at the rock obama in two thousand eight came out again fairly or unfairly benches that he attended sermons church with the jeremiah. Wright presided over again that'd be getting into the barrett law that i think there were some pretty bad things but it was exaggerated a little too. It's time but obama gave a speech as a candidate way said again who knows where he neto was quite as unaware of what was happening as he said but he said but the important thing is he said it he said this is unacceptable these things jeremiah wright who i've known otherwise sort of respected. These things that are now turns out he said are are beyond the pale repudiate them a dinovite jeremiah wright to be it is was inauguration. Or something i remember. There was a bit of a about that and the democratic convention. And that's a healthy thing for your politics. Maybe is a little bit of a property. On the part of people you'll leave behind people that were nicer to ten or twenty years before it was a way of signaling. Look we're not going to have that kind of rhetoric in the white house president. So let's cut to today. 'cause i know you talked to a lot of people in washington who are still doing the job. They haven't abandoned yet. They haven't left thinking it's hopeless. I know a lot of people have but when you talk to someone and feel free to name names or not but when you talk to someone who right now seems to be legitimising. The crazy behind closed doors or they like look bill. You know it got me reelected. This is where this is. What i'm doing for politic- politics you know how it goes at. What did their actual feelings inside. Do they feel like they're doing the right thing for the country or do they say look. This is the deal of both. I think people are very different. I mean honestly there are some just transactional just decided. This is my past success. There people you know one thing i've learned in life if he sort of rationalized to yourself for awhile you ended up believing it. So did you start off knowing that it was transactional as it were you. Were just going to say a few things to stay in the good graces of certain voters after saturday's enough for a couple of years. Kind of you know. It's a good point that they're making and here's a study. That shows that you know. Immigrants are committing. All these crimes is that what starts. Rhetoric could become sort of a belief you know. I think they would say yeah. Look i mean we have to say these things to say here but once we get back in power we're to be responsible will be able to handle these people and you know that wasn't crazy to say i didn't support trump twenty succeed in. I thought it was dick euless to do so but it wasn't crazy for people to vote for trump thinking came under control by twenty eighteen. That was getting a little hard to believe by twenty twenty. It was kind of incredible honestly after january. Sixth now i think kind of incredible to say that these republicans are You know they just kind of toying with this stuff. It's obvious it. Whatever their intentions originally were they miscalculated in the you know what's a metaphor for the alligators eating persons. Whatever i mean it's it's become the opposite of what they claim to be tougher This is a genuine problem. So liz cheney i think she's behaved very well For pete in the last three or four months voted for impeachment. She stood up. She said she couldn't vote for trump. A twenty four which is a pretty big deal for the number three house. Republican to say about some good welby than obviously. That's good on the other hand. She remains a republican in the house. Shield of course support kevin mccarthy for speaker resulting in twenty twenty. Two kevin mccarthy voted to overturn the election. So i like this. Chaney ivory mature beats back. The challenge from the trumpets in wyoming added could be good for the country if she does pretty bad for the whole party is it goes so trumpy that they defeat cheney then. You've got what what i two. Major parties can totally kind of authoritarian nativist in democratic on. The other hand. Support is kind of to say that. It's okay if kevin mccarthy become speaker and that's not something. I'm kate with either now in the case of his. Jd doesn't matter is no democrats. Could win that seat. So i can in good conscience say on this cheney in that way but what if that were a swing see you know. I think it would be so. I think a lot of people who are serious are trying to grapple with some of the tensions between you want to the republicans who are decent and there are some obviously but you don't want republicans to run anything. I don't at least for the next few years and sahadi this little bit of a trade off the air you know and so there are these genuine moral tensions. I would say. I think you saw a lot in the far policy community under trump. It must make for an interesting moment in front of the mirror in the morning. I think it does look. And i also think there's not what you'd afford position among us never trumpers people. Who've we thought. A lot of their previous allegiance to conservatism decided. A lot of that was the stake. In or or the very one-sided others of now wasn't it was okay i just think went off the rails here in twenty fifty twenty sixteen. You know it goes reasonable intellectual disagreements from the key going forward now when you alluded to this at the very beginning in the spirit of this show i think we need to have alliance of people believe liberal democracy against extremism against liberalism of the left and the right and there are times in the history of the last century when the left was a greater threat of different countries at different times and there are times when the right was gray thread different countries in different times right now. I think it's pretty unambiguous fall. That i don't like certain things. The left wing of the democratic party is doing or saying that the right is the threat and we need to therefore either denied the republican party power or or really fight hard to change the character of the republicans who are going to be exercising power over the next few years. maybe they'll be third parties and stuff but for now we have two major parties in this country. Be bad for the country. One of the two parties goes nativist authoritarian bigoted and so forth demagogic. But if it's gone that way it's gone that way at that point you just have to find it. I think that's why i supported biden. And why is kind of patient. I'm some people. Larry hogan well-liked the governor of maryland. Said he wasn't that was good but he was writing in ronald reagan. This silly about that. I mean if you're at a real moment of crisis for liberal democracy and joe biden is a decent person who has a program that's well within the bounds of democratic visa less and propriety in respect for the law and so forth you need to support him so i was pretty impatient last year with republicans. Who were getting very cute about even my friends of mine. You were anti-trump too. That credit that had paid a price for being anti trump. it's still weren't willing to bite the bullet and say we got us support biden for now. Yeah so bill. In twenty twenty where you voting for joe biden or were you voting against donald trump. Don't answer that we'll be back in thirty seconds a moment of your time. New podcast from kirk commedia currently twenty one years old and today magic from her fingertips down to the of yourself because the world needs you do that asked about me was ready to spit on my drink. Fingers were facing feel like your purpose in your worth is really being stopped me from playing the piano. She buys walkie-talkies wonders to whom she should give the second stones love humans. We never did. We never will just find of rock. Climbing is that he can only focus on right now. And so are american life begins. We may need to stay apart but let's create together available on all podcast platforms. Submit your piece that kirk oh dot com slash a moment of your time bill. What's the deal. Did you vote for joe biden or did you vote against donald trump in the last election. Some of both. I'm gonna primarily against donald trump but i also in fact our little organization did urge independence states where independents can vote in either primary to vote in the democratic primary twenty twenty once it became clear there was no real challenge to trump was possible in public inside to vote for biden or whoever the moderate was introductory bided against bernie sanders elizabeth. Warren nothing personal. About elizabeth warren a bernie sanders but we are important aid that the democrats nominate someone weren't good chance of beating trump and the from our policy point of view by just closer to where i am to where most of us work than the senators a war and so i think we were lucky to get biden as the alternatives to trump. I'm not sure any of the democrat could have beaten The irony is biden. who was passed over. Who was of looked down on a little bit by the obama people Louis gets to be Not biden even though the you know ends up being the person is sandwich or anyone else. Beach trump in twenty twenty. And i think so far. He's been a good president pretty good. President differ with Things but pretty serious administration if you told me ten years ago and i'm going to be sitting here hoping that the biden administration succeeds in worrying about different mistakes. He's making and you know. I guess i wouldn't really have expected that but there you go. You had talked before about january. Sixth obviously you feel like many of us that that was a pretty pivotal day. In your case you did something about it. What is the republican accountability project. So we want to make sure that there was some yes support really money basically a campaign money for those republicans who didn't support. Obviously the interaction didn't vote overturned the results and then much worse even voted to impeach donald trump week later that was ten republicans in the house or Victim in the senate after storms over. That was seven in the senate and given the massive ability of the trump republicans fundraise wear. It was important to signal that there will be some support for those who went the other way. We don't have quite as much ability to the trump people to fundraise. We have you know. There's a big donors in some swallow owners who wanted to show support for those republicans. So that's now going forward. The republican ability project also looking for good candidates who are running in different races new candidates in open seats and so forth. Who want to take the party beyond trump and there are candidate showing up like that. We'll see how they do and we'll see you know how much we can help them. They're going to make their case primarily obviously on their own and right now the party. Electric doesn't look terribly favorable. Most places to them but that could change a year from now or two years. Snow can't help. But bring this up. Because i want to make sure i heard this correctly you you were talking to brian williams on msnbc over the weekend. And i think you said that you fully expect trump to run for the presidency in three years. I had to bet that that he would. I mean i think he he made. Of course guys health might not permitted and so forth seems to have the attitude that he's just kind of playing around for now but he'll just let santa store holly. Or what are these japan's or some bunch of people run and compete for his mantle. But i don't know why what he just. What does the he thinks. He has a decent chance foot by thank. You would have addition chance of winning the nomination. Good chance of winning combination while he thinks the one the last one right decent chance of winning the presence eighty would have some chance. I think it will depend in part on what happens in twenty twenty two Very much so. I'm not predicting this thing. I'm just saying. I think people are a little too quick to talk about all these other characters and i saw pocono today. It's funny So we're talking. What dave land Showed i think trump at the support of forty five percent of the republican electric in someone emailed it to me who's more trump than i was but not trump now not after january six. So he sees he wants trump not to run and not to win. It was like this is great majority. The republican electorate doesn't really want to run so like fifty five percent dot wanted to run forty five percents. Wanted to run both your runs. Usually if you start out with forty five percents. You're pretty good shape. You know about the candidate field. So i i look at those polls i think baby it'll fade. Maybe that'll be different. A twenty year nowadays. Twenty twenty two. Maybe it'll be different in april twenty. Twenty three maybe trump will seem like yesterday's news and people rethinking some of the things he did and what happened. But you don't even see january six affecting him going forward in that way i think. The empirical data is is that it didn't change the numbers much. Let's look at that for a second. I frankly don't think trump is an idiot. I think the politics is the chess game right. You have to think many moves ahead. So what do you think. His game plan was that led us to january six. Was he looking for the mob to take over the country. Tell me about three moves ahead. That day what was in his mind was deny the legitimacy of his feet because it was very important to his image out there he's the winner romney and mccain bush. The bush won a losers and he is the winner so there had to be enough repetition manufacturer of evidence as to the illegitimacy of his defeat. The election was stolen that they could live off that for the next year or two three and he could be the guy who's coming back from an unjust to feed. You know trump things in this kind of cinematic. gb away right the comeback. I was going to put it right in two thousand twenty four. I think maybe it started that. And he didn't really think they should like stampede. The capital but certainly never turned that off at certainly happy to indulge in that rhetoric. There's a lot of accounts from that day number watching it that he kind of enjoyed watching what's happening on tv. This was kind of a dramatic. Did he think he could literally really overturn. The did he think we were all going to say ops. Okay you can stay. I think not what i mean. I look back at that. I'm a little freaked out and how close Came close that he could stay. But it came close to having total chaos in the country Griffin's rapids bourbon different georgia and if the michigan people had gone in the direction like trump is pushing into go and if you know a few votes in moved in arizona and if they had done the right thing actually do see in the There could have been genuine. Chaos genuine crisis. I imagine trump deep down so thought he also they wouldn't have won that either but it would have been a huge chaotic crisis. He would have been unjustly deprived of his chance. Andy would have capitalized on that resentment for fundraising and for his own political strength. The next three or four years. I kind of think. That's what was it is one. What's most amazing for me on the impeachment. I i sort of democrats could have emphasized this little more articles of impeachment. The assignment was terrible. did you. Months of incitement actual incitement at noon on january. Six to sitting there doing nothing while it was happening in a way is is worse. He's president is states. He has the capacity in the allegation. I mean thinking matic president if this crisis of this magnitude call together in the situation will never gets on the lines visual the conference. You mobilize everything you can. You can talk that defense department Just you take care of our capital against people who are marauding through it. And the fact that he didn't is so revealing it didn't even occur to but that wasn't the first thing that he did for his own benefit rather than for the people of the country. And by the way. I should let you know i'm sitting here hosting a show called. Meet me in the middle. I was a pretty staunch republican. While ago i got pushed out emotionally and otherwise and rethought a lot of things kind of like the way you have and i. I want to ask you a question that we asked michael steele last week. And and get your perspective. If the folks who broke into the capital on january six were handed the keys to the government other than nineteen trump back in power. What did they want. And what would they do if they were in charge. You know i think pretty much. What trump would have astro told them to do. And some of those things would have been maybe minor poitras or but they could have been pretty illiberal and pretty hostile to basic civil liberties. I mean those. This is four years trump really conditioned some chunk of his supporters. I don't know whether it's ten million or twenty million or thirty million. Not seventy four million but not seventy four thousand either right. I'm some number between in the billions to have contempt for the civil liberties of their opponents to think that force is justified at least in some cases. Certainly that there's this massive fraud going on with the deep state. I'm leaving is even the cuban on conspiracy true conspiracy craziness and i. That's where i really do worry. The liberalism is stronger than people. Some people look at it and think. Oh bunch of kind of unhappy weird. I'll be bull and you know letting off steam terrible what happened. Don't get me wrong but nonetheless. Not fundamentally the case. I don't know you now if me another proof is what's happened. Since jerry's sex in the state legislatures these pretty sustained systematic focused attempts to cut back on voting of groups the don't or republicans just watch other groups and that's not you know just like letting off steam that's pretty actually care. You have to work a little bit to actually come up with your draft legislation. You have to spend monday to try to persuade people to pass it. Yes be somewhat organized and so this whole conservative infrastructure has become. I won't say anti-democratic but don't care much about democracy willing to sacrifice democracy for the sake with day take to be there deeper interests which is some kind of odd observing the america. They grew up in against all these changes all these demographic groups all these other institutions that they have come to assist fear and hate. And so the david front. Put it that way. Maybe that they love conservatives. Whitney left I don't think it's fair to conservatives conservatives. They love they love. I don't know what exactly you know. They love the america. They want to be part of that. They feel comfortable in warden. They love the actual existing democratic america. Which has a lot of diversity and a lot of conflict and we wanna think that politicians are actually governing. We want to think that it isn't a game. Let's take a look at games football deflategate do whatever you can to win baseball. Where you let people read pitches with cameras and cheat your way onto base. But you don't think that that's going to be part of politics. These are the people that we've chosen to lead our society. It's bizarre that we're adopting this kind of sensibility of politicians. So what what do we do about it other than well. Try to tell as many people at this is what we see in. Hope they see two. Yeah if you take those two sports examples leukocyte exactly. We did south. It'd be as if they did deny that they had done them. They sort of ended up proudly say guest. We've done them. We wanna do it again. Next time we want to change the rules so the next time we can get away with vitamin. that's literally what they're sort of their picard physician. And it's an it wasn't wrong to do it. It was totally necessary because the other side mistreating even more. Here's the exam. You take them if you do the analogy so much worse really what's been happening in our politics than the kind of routine called cheat which wasn't jaber the cheating around the margins by you know a few people in one game or one episode or what one team in that respect you do need to have the basic expectable so the game or else. The whole system starts to collapse. Trump is is that contempt for people who play by the rules of the game. Bill thank you so much for joining us. This was a wonderful show. How can people follow you. Thank you. I really enjoyed the conversation you can go to the bulwark dot com. Which is our website which is never trump kind of moderates conservatives and liberals than on twitter at bill kristol the nightrider link to things that i think are worth reading south. You saw that. You'll get a lot of what i think is worth thinking about and so you listening. Don't forget to come back next week and hear bill kristol part two and don't forget they hit the follow button so you don't have to hunt around for the next. Meet me in the middle. Thank you to our producer and editor. Joey salvia music for me in the middle is composed and performed by celestin eric. Dick and the executive producer for this episode is stuart helper. Everybody stay healthy and open your eyes. We'll see you next week. Everybody room kirk media media for your mind.

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63 - Trump: The Cash Cow and the Battle for Political Control with Bill Kristol (Part Two)

Politics: Meet Me in the Middle

32:41 min | Last month

63 - Trump: The Cash Cow and the Battle for Political Control with Bill Kristol (Part Two)

"From kurkcu media. Welcome to part two of our discussion with bill kristol conservative. Yes but without a doubt. Bill brings to the show kind of insight and analysis. That will make you think. Oh we've got a lightning round so you'll want to stick around for that. This is politics. Meet me in the middle. I'm bill curtis once again. My co-host jane. Albrecht is international trade. Attorney who fought for. Us economic business interests to high level government officials around the globe. She's a member of the us supreme court bar and she's also been involved with several us presidential campaigns. Hey jane how you doing fine always good to be here and welcome bill. Thanks bill as you heard bill. Kristol is that infamous american neoconservative political analysts that you see almost daily on cnn. Cnbc msnbc fox. He was the founder of the political magazine. The weekly standard. And he's now the editor at large of the bulwark and he has his own podcast. Aptly named conversations with bill kristol bill. Thank you so much for joining us to be with you both. Let's talk about where the real fault lies right now. You know it seems that there are tens of millions of people that are increasingly far right who will forgive anything. Believe anything whether or not it makes any sense whatsoever you know. The pandemic is a democratic hoax and will disappear by easter. Nope if i lose the election in six months it was a fraud. Stop the steel joining space aliens with lasers that start california fires. There abused children in the basement of pizza. Restaurant eliminate election fraud by reducing voting hours and forbidding anybody from giving the people online water or food scanning millions of their own supporters such that their online donations suddenly is a monthly donation to the point. Where you have to put your tail between your legs in return one hundred twenty million dollars that you stole from your own supporters. The big lie which million still believe. Why are the republican voters forgiving. All of this stuff. They shouldn't end the suggests problems in our society. Our culture information systems are media and so forth hard to fix it. Hard to know are even understand that for me. The one thing we do other could happen. That hasn't happened is leaders that those voters respect look to their elected officials people. They watch on television on fourth ab not stood up and said that's not true. I stand my voters here in whatever district district you voted for trump. If the republican says i voted for trump. i wanted to win. But he didn't and i've looked at carefully. And here's the date. I'm gonna take half an hour. Now you don't have to listen to all unexplained explain to you. The what you think isn't true. Very few republicans very few conservatives very few people on fox news i would even say very few conservative leads to sense of big donors wall street journal editorial page have had any kind of tough love talk to their own supporters even the journal which is fine the highest tone by conservative opinion. Page of the country influential. It's all sort of well. That's a little off that they've gone too far in that. But you know there are real problems with the election stuff. We need to anyway. What's what's more board is the biden dot. Abc's even there's a kind of failure to police your own supporters lease at rhetoric. If they don't hear that people respect they're not going to believe much on the air from me or let alone russia democrats and liberals and so they kind of are often their own echo chamber itself worth but bill. You know that people are and they're watching news that basically feeds them back their own opinion as fake information. Someone had a good point about this. You could actually sometimes shatter people. People think one thing you say. Wait a second. You're busy person william your time to really look at this here. Five facts that. I'm gonna give you in fact date with the worst things about the kind of social media. Internet stuff is they get a lot of facts that just false facts. You don't have any information they get all this long accounts of how the fraud has happened. They get all this you know. It's not as if there's nothing there. It's so it's hard to penetrate that once it gets going. It is like a call. Tried to your. How can people be scientologists role as decades you know. Would somehow once you get sucked it. It's easy to get reinforced hard to break out. And i think we're seeing this sadly and unfortunately really on a pretty big scale social media it has a lot to do with. I do think. I used to be sort of a doubt. There's always been demagogues it's always been frankly people crazy. Opinions got knows the twentieth century people who whipped up to do horrible horrible things and south. It doesn't social media probably doesn't matter that was kind of my view you know just different means with the same thing. I now think there is something that was unique about the way it creates a kind of closed echo chamber. It does give the few very big platform. That kind of self enforce amisi. Never see anything else. Did you see only more stuff confirms it. So no i think it's it's all very dangerous and damaging though you need a lot of social cultural and other kinds of reformations it can't just be politics but you know what would help as start if the political leaders confronted their own supporters and said. I'm sorry. I know you wish this was the case but it isn't the case you know a lot of these guys. Do they go home at the end of the day and kind of laugh at us. And just think we're dumb as a box of rocks will accept anything that we actually believe what they're saying or is it just like we're playing monopoly deal and you wanna blow off. The other guy is part of the game. And this is how i get elected. It's a very good point question. I think their different types of strokes comment. I i really believe fundamentally that was true Business conman don't believe or don't necessarily believe their common now. There's also a history at the like novelists and people who write about this study. This of different literary works convent off fall for their own connor for maybe a slightly different con right. I mean you know of a way. Which they they call themselves at the same time. But now i think i think as a certain amount of that desert about the amount of money that could be made this. I underestimated early on. I think a lot of people in the mainstream establishment media and political system address. Today did this. I remember people goats from white house. Early on friends would say to me key. Believe he took a job. What mistake it's gonna ruin. It will hire him again. He's going to be finished just to get a year or two in the white house. The ability the white house. And i remember saying i don't know about that. Are you sure that he's not going to get us. Two million dollar contract when he gets out and in fact the tv networks one have someone on served in the trump white house added fact baby corporations even wanna hire those people because they need to get along with that part of the republican party and i think sadly i was more right than wrong in that people do not feel very few people fairly rather few people. Feel that you know. I haven't paid a price so to speak for being part of that giant con. They're all along with it careers. Trump is one of the biggest cash cows that has come along the other cash. Cow was the casinos. But that didn't work out so well but to cash cow that campaign fundraising is for him as mazing and i think that's one of the reasons he keeps going and i think a lot of people on and this will sound sort of saadi as these were not the best people. They wouldn't have gotten great jobs and normal administration might have gotten jobs at the secondary level of think In trump world if they were loyal and off they were willing to do whatever he wanted. And not worry. Too much about the legality Fourth they could move very very fast and they did at again. I'm curious to see what now's a little bit now for. Those people are gonna do so well. Now the trump's calm. But i don't know i think a lot look at their running Sean spicer bottom. We'd obsessed him. I don't know much. I don't know what he's doing exactly but he doesn't strike me that he's out on the street panhandling sarah sanders. The next press secretary is going to probably be the next governor of arkansas. These people are you know. There's a ton of money swirling around and cuban on wacky were all. The people are not suffering from that. Made me think really go off the deep end they get in trouble obviously legally and otherwise but the idea the amount of money that turned out to be there is a little surprised Just a lot of the people setting in twenty bucks and not realizing the settings twenty bucks every month so fourth getting conned but there lot surprising number of wealthy people who i don't know why exactly they they sort of get intrigued by this too and they're they're unhappy about the country. Their kids didn't turn out the way they wanted well. Many of them are voting their tax rate. I agree that. But that's we're at that i can understand. But they're surprising are able. I think we were all in on the general native ism authoritarianism this itle. You know this country. I don't recognize it anymore. Said what you made here in this country that you don't recognize it seemed to do okay on your your senior third house there in in sun valley and so forth that. Are you really miserable. But now it's horrible what's happening. The kid is college and he hasn't socialist professor. I mean we've all right. You know what i mean. And the whole country's turned against me. Like i'm a victim. I'm zillionaire with three houses and running a business detention center. But i don't like some things that are happening. Recognize some parts of the country to look a little different and so on victim. So trump is was brilliant. I've gotta say the victimology side of this. You know the turning the bunch of pretty well off people mostly not all but some interdictions. Let's look at the look at the election coming two years from now. I'm gonna ask you to pull out the bill crystal ball. What credit for that by the way. What is the likelihood that the republicans take control of the house and senate and twenty two. I think not so likely to send. It may be slightly above fifty fifty in the house but both are pretty close to fifty fifty. So i mean. I think it's not a done deal. I think democrats could overperform various reasons in the do better than you normally do in your first your first off year election and you're taking over the white house but i also worry. I think it's quite possible. That will close. Of course it doesn't take much of a swing. Republican get a little recession a little mess up somewhere. A couple of bad stories about the biden administration and republicans could do okay. I really don't know now. Let's put you on the spot. Then what's your advice to the democrats for what they can do to keep control or gain control in the house and senate i. It's i think pretty conventional positive sides most important side. i think they're governing. You've got the so you got to set in the house. It's extremely narrow. It's tough you gotta come to big things there. I think the story is good so far because basically what. It biden afternoon his first days yet help us get. I'll get vaccinated and give us a sense that we could come out from the pandemic economics editor just life getting back to normal schools at. He's done a good job. I'm their little things. I would change but i think stuff is gonna work out pretty. Well be nice if you could fix. Its voting rights legislation to prevent some of what the republicans are trying to do at the state level. Another ton of other issues immigration climate. Which reporting is there. One key piece of advice you would give them and if you do this you have a better chance of ending up in control. I think this is sort of cliches I think you've got to keep your eye on the big stuff and not sweat the small stuff. Cut your losses on of He'll reagan he got two or three big things done. You know when. I think was perceived to be getting down which is why got reelected such big margins successful foreign policy and getting the economy going again had a ton of mistakes gaffes their people administration who are getting fired. Who's saying stupid things. They cut their losses very well. That i think is very important to do in politics. You just like poker right you got. You need to win a few big hands that you need to make sure that you don't stay too long on the hands you're gonna have to fold and i think we don't need maxine waters saying stuff that it wasn't as bad as what trump said and it wasn't support and she's not the president but anyway who needs to ever seeming to encourage people to riot and who needs to have just many things like that where you can't control the whole party there many members of congress and so forth but the less of that and the quicker that stuff gets kind of put aside i guess and not. You can't attached to the entire party i think the better. And there's a huge conservative media apparatus now political and media which is designed to magnifying to an insane degree frankly random statements by backbench short backbench democratic members of congress university professors. You name it pies. Hollywood different types know anyone says anything. Suddenly it's like. Do you believe the democrats are doing this. I'm been somebody conversations like old friends. rex friends acquaintances. And it's like it's not really a different mentioned. Something like one person said something somewhere stupid and they shouldn't do xyz but doesn't mean that ono that's the whole democratic party what moves do you think the republicans need to make to win. The midterms has that for unfair. That is a tough question. Because i'm not sure. I would like to but i. I don't know that it would help. They may be right to just be demagogic data just right to just fight everything that get. No credit for helping biden pass things. I shouldn't. They just screaming yell. They'll be something in the one point nine trillion dollar growth package. That'll be wasteful. That will be silly. That will get you know. Be scandal somewhere right somewhere. This country rise. They'll just focus on that. I mean. I wish i could say that. I thought we had grown up enough media a sensible in politics that you can't get away with just screaming yelling about that stuff but i'm not sure about that. We're gonna take a quick break. We'll be right back a moment of your time. New podcast from kirk commedia currently twenty one years old and today like magic from her fingertips down to the to take care of yourself because the world needs you and your gutter. That asked about me was ready to spit on my fingers facing feel like your purpose in your worth is really being from. She buys walkie-talkies wonder to whom she should give the second humans. We never did. We never will find rock. Climbing is that you can only focus on what's right now and so are american life begins. We may need to stay apart but let's create together available on all podcast platforms. Submit your piece by kirk dot com slash moment of your time. Jane what do you say. We dive into the whole concept of the filibuster. Some of the things that the biden group is looking to pass one of the things. I've been wondering is if the republican party stays on this path mill. I don't believe over time. They will stay strong party. I think they will grow weaker in that context. It's very unusual for a new party to pop up in the united states and not easy for it to become mainstream but is there a possibility facing what we're facing now that a third party really could merging eventually the republican party atrophies sin die so yes. I think it's more of a possibility than it has been in sort of our political lifetimes of third party. Emerging maybe a centrist party that would be repudiated. The republicans native isn't authoritarianism. But not especially democrats left trying to pick up the kind of centrist strand of clinton democrats well. I agree that the republican party ultimately is playing a losing hand year. There got declining demographics. And it's just hard to believe you could really build eddie kinda stable majority of what they're trying to do. But how much damage Sense of urgency about all. This awful lot of damage can be done to the country if a party on its way out sort of has temporary majorities which they used authoritarian ways to try to forestall. What's happening historically right him. You can really ever extremely unpleasant damaging dangerous ten or twenty years even if it's not really sustainable over the long haul is there any serious talk among republicans are former republicans about to form a third party at this point or it's not really materializing in any way there's a lot of talk i mean. I think it's slightly stymied for now. Stymied just kind of on the back burner for now for two reasons. You've got a twenty twenty two election coming up where hard to see that. As much of a appetite for independent candidates third party candidates going to be gradually who controls the house who controls the senate democrats republicans of you. Don't want the bubble Vote democratic and vice versa and then biden who is centrist. So like may frankly. You know had a weakened by by studying on my time saying why can't tolerate by neither so many third-party that's between the other two. I don't think it's it's a symmetric as political scientists like to say how we have one party. This really responsible in other party. That has some irresponsible elements. It'll be a mistake to weaken both parties equally. So i think it's more important for now for people like me to agree. We can make a difference to help. The biden administration succeed if it fails if things happen on the democratic side. If they go to for just six reasons. I think that's where your third party happens. Probably one cycle away from now where you've got a left wing democratic party. After biden has succeeded. They were trumpy republican party echo a lot of people in the middle of. Jeez we really do better than this. But i don't think we're quite there. You know historically. The president's party has lost term elections. And so it's a very close majority that the democrats have what do you think the odds are that the democrats will maintain control of the house and the senate. I think senator just have a little bit better jazz. The maps little better for them. There are a couple of republican incumbents. Who either aren't running again or vulnerable. I think states like pennsylvania wisconsin which currently have republican senators could go democratic. That would give the moon to lose a stay to the bad data. The democrats all day decided who knows what the mood will be in. The country will look like in twelve sixteen eighteen months the house the conventional wisdom would have to be the republicans will win it. They did pick up so many more seats than would usually be the case in twenty twenty that they may have taken some of that low hanging fruit. Maybe the democrats can fight hard and hold those swing seats. They do old. I'm sorry to interrupt you. I just wanted to know that the verdict is guilty on all three counts. Wow that's interesting is interesting. Do you think that will come things down. Do you think that will actually take a look at that and reform the police structure. What you think that'll do for us. I mean certainly add the the other outcome would have done the opposite of calming things down. So it's good in the sense that hopefully at least people thank you. Look you know. People are trying to be do justice here and not simply willing to excuse inexcusable even Agers committed by a policeman. Or somebody of your own race. I do think the police reform stuff again i've been. I've been vaguely favor of some of these reforms. I hadn't really thought of it as a crucial issue. Until now i gotta say both. The police issue gut issue of last few days. We're speaking after whatever five six day period when there were four or five. Different mass killings almost fifty in the last thirty days. You know it's hard gun control They're already three or four guys out there is. There's no magic way to solve ed in there. People who have legitimate reasons for having them give them up but anyway Executive oats to get to get up. And i'm not sure that's the right policy to give them up could do better. I mean could there be some forms of jackson registration and ways to stop people who are Stable from having them. I gotta think so. I wonder if i will turn. Its attention to that war. He's been pretty focused. In pretty intelligently focused i gotta stay on the economic stuff and try to keep everything else a little bit away but the combination police issue of the guns issue creates but maybe on that kind of issue you could get some republicans i don't know. There are libertarian. Republicans who've always been unhappy about some aspect. I think this is the issue that brings up. The issue of the filibuster biden can do a certain amount as president but the real question is are the democrats could have the courage to do away with filibusters so that they can get legislation like this past of do away with it or do away with it for this issue just like last time we did away with it for the sake of judicial appointments this issue and then the voting rights issue in that another issue in. Yes you can prove. You can hollowed out eventually. I think the problem is. They don't have the votes on the democratic side. Quite yet to do it right. I think to get the boats. I i've never been in favour musters allergy. As a pure political science matter does not it seems increase. Compromise or moderation does the opposite. Actually it's sort of creep increases the incentives to just hang tough on everything so it actually is a perverse. It's not in fury. It could do the first thing you know. They're institutions that. Were all parts of where there might be super majorities for certain things and maybe Good idea you know. But the filibuster is not designed to be that stall ended it certainly now. My view works away. So i'm in favor of getting rid of it general for years by out the most to do it. I think they would have to make a very good faith. Effort to pass certain things and show the voters of the sense. Show their colleagues that the filibuster is preventing us from doing a. b. or c. So important stake voting rights or giant. Little involved it. Their core voting rights reforms. That are really important. I think Both in the john lewis actor. Hr four in nature one. They really be important to secure people's right to vote. Keep at the level lease. They had twenty twenty lot of other stuff in. Hr one that's ethics in government stuff and campaign finance reform in matching funds. Some of the ideas might be good ideas of the not so good honestly but they're not wildly. Urgent you know. They're kind of traditional. Frankly liberal ideas the government ideas. Some of the maybe should be passed. Separately could wait till twenty twenty three. I think the democrats needed some point to say okay. We have these bills that have a lot of our wishlist in them. Now we gotta really parrot down to what's urgent. What's essential what's important for. Our democracy bring goes to the floor if they if filibuster dense to mansion in cinema basic their members. And say look this. We gotta get done. Maybe we only have carve out this winter at least other carbon so the question but i think they need to be a certain thing they need to go through kind of they can't just pass. Hr one you know a party boat. The house freeing up in the senate this eight hundred page bill. It doesn't get the votes. The republicans alike in this up too bad. We're jamming this. Do you think that all the democrats will vote for the infrastructure program or do you think that they're going to be a couple of holdouts. In which case the question doesn't even get called. I think on on the economic stuff. It's easier to get people like magic because he is kind of a big government guy in west. Virginia wants to have a lot of money. Spent there at so. I kind of think they could hold their party on that. Some of the other stuff so little harder to get everyone of it maybe they can get some republicans on some of this. I don't know maybe biden could have done a little war. But i have been a little amazed. I mean the republican even the decent republicans arrived Romney and others who've been pretty courageous standing up to trump at times. Someone's retiring like to me foreman. They don't see to even when they're decent they don't seem to be taking much leadership gotta say so. Where is the republican counteroffer on infrastructure. I i'm not sure. That biden team has correctly decided that we need to do every single thing that they think that we need to do. Well there's something like magic ability to devise economic plans. Maybe we need a smaller bill night. We'd focus on excellence. That arrive renders liberal. Who doesn't like all the electric car stuff. Because he says we don't really want to have four cars than ever on our highways we should really be demonized Zero opinion on this. Just saying that there's there are actual policy issues. You could debate right. Should we spend fifty billion high speed. Rail's run electric cars. You get no impression that the That's at least sort of doing some of that. I wouldn't say they're adding the most sophisticated debasement. I'm elizabeth war. For example has their own views which is somewhat different from biden. They get debated some of the younger members in the house of intelligent. I think be serious about policy republican party. I mean i not being even facetious here. I just really like literally. What are the republicans saying about his kind of a big deal spending two trillion dollars. What is the republican proposal. Spend zero to spend five hundred to spend this on that i mean. I don't even know it's really interesting to find all these right wing. Republicans who only when the infrastructure bill comes up. They get born again financial religion. You're right now. That's true too but who gets me is how is spending money to rebuild our infrastructure not patriotic and not about making america. Great again well. Okay but a couple of different ways to look at jane and of course. This is my job so let me ask you bill. Seven hundred and fifty dollars a night for people at the border ten thousand dollar hammers after one hundred million dollars paid to accounting firms. They've once again. Said the pentagon is on audible because of the convoluted way they spend their trillion dollars so assuming that we all decide that we wanna spend and invest in our future. Do you think our government is able to spend efficiently without corruption. I don't think it's that much corruption really at the federal level. It gets passed food states. Localities businesses it can get somewhat corrupted. I do think the inefficiencies are. Obviously they're also the counter these sort of unintended consequences. Sometimes that could boomerang. I rather liked what he's sort of favorable. Some of fair amount of biden's proposals is to waste the government in a way. Spend a lot of money. One way is spend a lot of money and to say what you worked at a business. The went under his the monday years. You know here's your salary. Supplemental unemployment insurance or if you have kids. Here's somebody to help with raising the kids. the other way for the government to spend money is hey. We're going to set up. Child-care centres all over the country we have ideas. We were experts. We've talked to the yet. We know how best how to how to raise your kids and we know how best to do this to prepare to buy. He's not doing that much of that. It's not really command. Control sort of nineteen fifties type socialism more nothing socialism in jarred evanger saying bengali. Kind of like fifty types european socialism or be government stuff. Most of it is throwing money at the problem. Which sounds like a little jar of is actually probably a better way to deal with these problems and so you know. Let school systems figure out how to spend the money. But let's make sure they have enough money they could deal with the pandemic and its after effects and so forth and let's not mandate everything washington but should they be doing everything at once. Bill i mean just we're gonna do it all it's a little so that's where i think. The reason is republican party. The reason in most democracies than conservative party is to say what. We can't do everything. There are limits there are trade offs. And here's i think we should do. Ad d and see. I think we should knock out of this bill. Well i mean. That's a perfectly good debate. I'm making this up opposite of what. Abc dr. but. I mean that's a good debate to have what's most striking about the republican party. Today is who saying that. That's kind of what the point of the opposition party is right and they could win some of these arguments designers if there are moderate democrats who worried about spending to watch and it will worried about some of the efficiencies etc are even to be able to have a policy debate given the character the republican party in the domination by the anxieties fanning anxieties and fanning the flames of resentment and hatred offensive question. I say i think it's a really big loss not to have to worthy parties. Step to bake these ideas. Because that's how you come up with the best. Policies niche athlete could point. We're gonna take thirty seconds and when we come back we're going to have the lightning round bill on medicine. Where still practicing join dr steven back and bill kurtis for real conversations with the medical professionals who have their finger on the pulse of healthcare in the modern world available on all your favorite podcasting platforms produced by kirk. Oh media bill. This is a game that we play where we just mention something very briefly. You've got about two sentences to give us the first thing that pops into your mind. You ready. And i have no choice. I'm strapped to my chair. Here sounds dangerous. It is dangerous. Let's start with the iran nuclear deal and israel and israel sabotage of iran's natanz centrifuges sabotaging. The tennis is good at it. Gives biden a little time to work out a better deal cool forty three percent of republicans. Don't plan to get the vaccine. Think that will go down. I do think as people look around and see their neighbors getting it and doing things that to struggle and they read about israel and other places where almost everyone's got that. I think actually hesitancy will will will receive you in lieutenant general. Hr makassar former national security adviser. Both feel that we're making a mistake pulling out of afghanistan. Yes i mean we look. It's not great. It's been a very difficult war. But the status quo is tolerable. Wait could be a lot worse if the top end. Takeover got three thousand troops there. They're not a god taking medica- casualties because but one ten months death. Dan monster among american troops. The afghan government wants us there. I would leave three thousand troops to get safer less risky than pulling out. What is the first change. You would make to our gun laws in this country. That is a good question. It's i think the gun situations vary. I guess some forms of registration and much better background checks of people who are disturbed. Don't have access to all this. Firepower is the republican party racist racist and the party as a whole. I don't know. But i've been certainly this much tolerance of racial bigotry into partying kind of blindness to dealing with words. Good point this morning. You pointed out that. Marco rubio was rather vocal about how trump would destroy the republican party and potentially the country and now he's vying for trump's important florida. Can you really expect anything different in this environment. You know i guess not. But he's kind of an example of the republican establishment That to be so weak it correctly. Saw what trump was trump won and instead of continuing to fight. And saying okay. We'll you've one for now but we're gonna stand our ground and minimize the damage you do come back and What you've lost builds up They just continued to pander to ted cruz. I mean i knew ted cruz. Eight nine ten years ago. I you know he was very dogmatic ideological conservative but again the degree to which under trump in under the influence of trump eat become. Just a ridiculous demagogue is distressing. I mean a lot of the worst demagogues got good educations right yep yep marjorie taylor green. She seems marginally crazy but again the degree to which she raised more money than any other house. Republicans three million dollars right after. She was stripped of her positions mitch. Mcconnell mitch mcconnell's talented politician. Who rationalizes way to to accommodate accommodating things that i think history without judge him well for what he's done. What happened to the tea. Party is the republican party now. The tea party was that a metamorphosis of the republican party. I think that's one way to look at it. And that's a word look at. Let's say the tea party could be a little crazy of extremely simple-minded. I don't think it was nearly as being spirited as the card party thinks. It's most striking about the demagoguery. Is is just how personally nasty it is. Where's the tea party was kind of you know. We need to obey the constitution. The government's out of touch but there was this but anyway i think it's worse than the tea party is the one person you think you can sit down and get to see the light and change their opinion because they in fact can influence a lot of others to go in the right direction. Let's good question and find you. Ll be having that conversation with him or her right now in the fast i guess i kind of feel like. We've all made all the arguments met him at his is people aren't hearing them. It's not because they fetal haven't been persuaded as they don't wanna hear the the degree of of wilful blindness willful deafness could put it that way. At of rationalizations we discussed earlier. Is really me. That's one of the striking things bill. How can people follow you. You can go to the bulwark dot com. Which is our website which is never trump kind of moderates conservatives and liberals thank you so much. I hope you'll come back and join us again. This was a wonderful conversation grabby. Do i really enjoyed it. Thank you to jane and to you. Listening don't forget the hit the follow button. So you don't have to hunt around for the next meet me in the middle episode and thanks to our producer and editor joey salvia music for meet me in. The middle is composed and performed by celestin eric. Dick executive producer for this episode is stuart halpern. Everybody stay healthy. We'll see you next week. Room kirk oh media media for your mind.

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2020 National Security Challenges; Vegan Pilot

Here & Now

42:07 min | 1 year ago

2020 National Security Challenges; Vegan Pilot

"From NPR WBZ. I'm Robin Young. It's here and now happy New Year and we could perhaps use some the twenty twenty begins with the prospect of an historic impeachment human trial in the US Senate and ended yesterday nine hundred thousand nineteen did with throat catching images of an attack on the US embassy in Baghdad a country where so much blood and treasure is your husband spent. We're GONNA be talking about the possible impeachment trial elsewhere in the program but let's start by broadening the Lens to global security in Baghdad today the American troops fired tear gas at hundreds of iranian-backed militiamen and other protesters who gathered outside the US embassy for a second day. They are angry about us. This era strikes last weekend in Iraq and Syria that killed more than two dozen Iraqi fighters in these Iranian backed militias. The US says the air strikes were in retaliation palliation for an attack last week. That killed an American contractor in Iraq. There are also some new ominous words from North Korean leader. Kim Jong UN speaking to a meeting of Communist Party leaders yesterday he warned of unspecified shocking action over stalled nuclear talks with the US. President trump responded at a New Year's Eve celebration at mar-a-lago doc. Last night he likes to be like him we get along. He's representing his country. I'm representing my country. We have to do what we have to do but he did. It signed a contract. He signed an agreement talking about denuclearization. And that we signed number one sentence denuclearization that was done in Singapore. And I think he's a man of his word so we're GONNA find out but I just being gym walls here now. Security analyst with MIT Security Studies Program. He's here in the studio with Awesome Happy New Year. Happy New Year. Certainly looks like it's going to come in with a bang so to speak well and they all do lately. Don't they out but the comments from the president doesn't it. Remind me of how this year started with that meeting with Kim Kim Jong on your past year started your thoughts on hearing the president with the same kind kind of language that he's been applauded for from his backers who say yeah talk to him like guy to guy and others who say you cannot talk to the leader of of Kim Jong North Korea as Chapelle. Yeah well I think we can separate these things out. I've been a supporter of diplomacy with North Korea. I welcome Doc. In the president's initiative when this all began way back when in Singapore sorta come off the rails but I certainly agree with critics. Six who say you know Kim Jong is not gonNa make decisions based on whether he's a pal with someone or not He's using the leverage he has to try to Get what he wants out of the President He. My suspicion is that North Korea feels like it has some leverage that can cause some mischief in an election year and that might force trump to make some concessions. I wonder though if the North Koreans are not have maybe an exaggerated sense of their leverage here. But that's where we're at loyal here in L.. Listeners will remember member that a month ago we talked to their oil but of course they are well the new ones you know. They'll remember that we talked about this and we said a month ago. Go this. Something's going to happen. We're GONNA have a missile launch. Maybe it's a satellite launch. Maybe it's an ICBM test. Maybe it's a nuclear test. But something's going to happen. and Lo and behold thirty days later whatever it's been all the signs are in that direction so with his new comments. How do you interpret them? What do you think it might be our? I think the smart money right now is is on a satellite launch. What I expect is the following? There's going to be a series of provocations. You Start on the lowest rung first and then you move up. So the lowest rung would be North Korea claiming that it is sending a satellite into space and using a rocket very similar. But not exactly the same as an intercontinental ballistic missile. To do that now. They're not supposed to do that. They know would be provocative but that's the first wrung. The second rung after that in terms of escalation is firing a military right missile testing an icbm firing something near Japan. The third is a nuclear test. And then I don't think it would ever get to this point but it is certainly possible the final in a serious provocation. If we continue down this route would be an above ground nuclear test or an above ocean nuclear tests now and you know of course people on the in west coast of the United States are also worried that Kim Jong UN might want to demonstrate the distance that he can come up with a missile. But I'm talking about where we are of. The nuclear nuclear talks with him have stalled This you know the idea that president trump said he said denuclearization. I don't think a lot of people thought that was imminent And he he wants the. US lift economic sanctions sanctions economic sanctions. Play out in a lot of our global relations. They the trump administration listen. They're not likely to do that unless there's denuclearization so we're caught in this in this web here Where do you think the negotiating can be? Well well here. Let's start with the big picture. I actually think that both sides want to get something done so in that big speech the Kim gave yesterday or today by you know time difference. He left open the door for diplomacy and he hasn't pulled the trigger on the most provocative things and if he starts low and moves up the ladder provocation that is also an indicator indicator. He's trying to push trump to get a deal. It's more favorable to him I think what we have is a situation where North crissy's Mr trump is week trying to squeeze as much as they can to get something they probably feel that they can get a better deal with him than his successor if he is not reelected did but they also don't WanNa push this to the point where it sort of spins out of control so I think we'll see continued provocations that are measured still still with the possibility to share. And I think you know. I've been predicting the third summit or whatever number we're on now we may very well get that but it will have to be a thing. We're all the agreements are made upfront. Okay he can't afford to fail. Neither side can afford to show up like they did in Hanoi and the thing blow up on them yeah. Let's turn to Baghdad. Which UH of necessity means to Iran as well peril stories at this point The Pentagon now sending more Marines to the Middle East in response to the protests there air the attack on the American embassy getting through at least one door and into the reception area. Really frightening reminds us of Iran forty years ago. Oh and the storming of the embassy. There in which hostages were taken. Look the part. This is all traces back to you. Know the reason that President President trump pulled out of the nuclear deal is that he and his aides who felt that Iran. It's not that they weren't abiding by the nuclear deal. They were occurred. The thinking was that they were backing. militias in the Hezbollah groups in the area. Now the president and the Pentagon feel that this was Such a group that killed this American contractor that led to the airstrikes Ryan Crocker the former. US Ambassador to Iraq on morning edition. Today I don't think there. There is any question at all his bullets. Well known to us. You know they they. They didn't materialize yesterday. They have been a long-term run in proxy. You any rock so the running hand. Here's start really concealed. So they're saying that the these are Iranian backed militias made up of Iraqis that that killed this American contractor no question that its Iraq in its Iran and Iraq. That's probably right. I mean I don't have the smoking gun but that sounds right to me. Let me make two points. One can't help point out that when the nuclear agreement was enforced there were no attacks on. US Embassies Sees Bhai Iran. Iran proxies the president. pull out of that deal promising. We're going to get tough in Iran. And Iran's GonNa back down the opposite has occurred. We have more more provocations. More problems now with Iran than we did during the a agreement so that didn't work out as at all as predictable as jumping behold behold you thought Barbara Slave and director of the future of Iran Initiative said the same thing yesterday she said This is more broadly about American foreign policy. Let's listen you know. US policy. Let's see it's like we don't see around the corners anymore and It it's really shocking. That the United States would put its diplomats and this kind of jeopardy in other words she intro drew the line also from breaking the nuclear deal and not understanding that that might drive a different people into the arms of different people. And here we are. Yes well obviously. If you're going to try to choke a country to death they're going to kick back and that's what we see this. We've seen this in a variety of ways attack act on Saudi Arabians oilfields the drones. You know lots of different things not surprising surprising that we weren't prepared for it. I would have thought that we would have might have anticipated. But what I'm GonNa say something that other people aren't saying offer different point of view very quickly and that is I think this is mostly political theater. I don't think the Iranian militias F- if they're at the direction of Iran are looking to escalate so that there is a conflict and I don't think the US and the president despite his constant bluster is looking for a fight with Iran on. So I think this is sort of political theater at a tactical level in Iraq. The center of gravity people don't like Iran in Iraq and Iraqis don't like the US US particularly but the center of gravity is this big political social movement in Iraq all the protests. That's what's really driving. Iraqi attitudes is in Iraqi behavior while the sideshow is the US and Iran cooking out at a low level that both sides hope won't escalate but tries to like the other look bad as each to put pressure on the other. Okay well hopefully. no-one accidentally shoots someone exactly. I mean that's the risk. Get an escalating minute laughed. What are we not paying attention to that? We should more in two thousand twenty well twenty twenty. I'll certainly be looking at India and India's relationship with Pakistan. The Indian leader Mr Moody apparently feels feels like he can act with impunity and do whatever he wants and he's getting pushback at home and there may be tensions with Pakistan as a result. I think also in In China China where is Hong Kong. Going what is happening with the weavers. There's a lot going on at a moment. When perhaps Chinese economic growth may be hitting a a bit of a decline and finally I would say and I just thought about this this morning? You imagine if you're in a You wake up you know in your home and your of the Muslim faith and you look around the world and the Chinese are imprisoning Muslims and all around the world. They are under the gun. And I think that's something to watch and shadow foreign policies. Jim Wa thank you so much. Happy New Year Upping New Year. It's the beginning of New Year so why not delve deep into the festive overture by Soviet era composer. Dmitri Shostakovich. It sounds like so much much fun. Right becomes triumphant part but it was probably for Shostakovich anything but let's explore that tension with our classical music opinionated friend Hoffner governor who joins us from New York. Hi Fran Hi there and you write in your article at your twenty sixteen article about this. which will post it here now dot? Org Shostakovich is very much. Your boy your guy your nervous little guy. Why why nervous? I tend to prefer classical and romantic era music but just to Kovic is probably the most modern composer. I feel a lot of affection for and his life was riddled with troubles by the Soviet state and and he was sort of did. His art made his music in constant terror of being defamed by the government by Stalin and the Soviet state in the Communist and by the way we just want to take a second to recommend author. Mt Anderson's incredible book about Shostakovich in Leningrad Leningrad under siege His Book Doc was symphony for the city of the dead. It's incredible and in fact here's a little bit of Shostakovich's seventh symphony that you read about in that book and so Fran Hoffner. He's writing at a time when he's under siege. There's a nervousness as you say this is why you have this kind of affection that tumbler girls feel about marvel characters or CW characters tells more. Oh I just feel very protective over him. While this was written Beckmann Tumbler. It was really a website more in the conversation but I want him to be well. It's like hard to think of another composer whose life was so heavily heavily affected by the government under which he lived a lot of the other sort of communist era Russian composers. Get Out of Russia. PROKOFIEV GETS OUT RACHMANINOFF. Gets out. They decide that they can't make their music under this kind of control so they go to central Europe and Shostakovich stays and therefore we don't really know what Shostakovich's music would be like without the state so influenced by the state and so I feel I feel a little sad younger him an protective. Well as you write one most modern composers that you have this affection for his life span. Most of the twentieth century I think he died in the seventies and nineteen seventies seventies And as you say this puts him smack in the middle of every important thing to happen in the twentieth century minus disco so very much influenced by the the world around him in once was considered one of the great hope of New Music New Russia. Yeah definitely I mean. He's a composer who continues. WHO works not only through Stalin's reign but afterwards That he's able to maintain a career to he gets defamed twice which for numerous composers under under Soviet rule like they got one and then they were you know disappeared or they were executed and he manages to survive twice. He continues to work by the end of his career. He's doing film film scores like his a very sort of modern career. Well let's talk about the time when Stalin came to power widespread famine by the early nineteen thirties in thirty thirty six. Stalin institutes the great purge of opponents and intellectuals a million people imprisoned at least seven hundred thousand killed and that year stalling goes to a performance of Shostakovich's opera lady Macbeth. Okay apparently Stalin did not like it hates it and what it's I mean it's sort of. It's sort of a satire. It is a woman overthrowing her husband and master. It's maybe not the type of art if you're addicted or that you want to see see and so. He defamed Shostakovich entrusted Kovic essentially has to go into hiding for little over a year after this and he's only thirty years old I I know and that's to think like I'm a contemporary of him at that age and two. If you know if I was defamed I don't know that I would ever come out of hiding well. He does In one thousand nine hundred eighty seven after seeing friends and relatives disappear or good executed composers in this year essentially have to compose music. That's positive positive and patriotic. Or they risk losing their lives as you said we come to Shostakovich's fifth simply here's the familiar There yeah okay we resolve. He had resolved at the end right. Yeah he did have to get there but I think he holds right before that resolution just slightly too long. It's sort of like a smile right right because again Stalin's listening and if he thinks you're going to end on a dark note on dissonant note that's not a good thing absolutely absolutely not and I think there's a lot of fear injected into the fifth symphony that he covers up with really triumphant resolutions like that in order as kind of a misdirected. Yeah well but you say the same is true of the apparently misnamed festive overture because it does sound festive. But you're let's listen and tell us what you're hearing So Fun Galloping. Maybe but you but you hear what I mean. He wrote this in three days to me. It feels like a rushed attempt at joy which is part of what makes it fun as a listener. You're like is he going to be able to pull this off because it's so quick. It's so overwhelming. He's also kind of putting on a little show. There's a lot of humor to his the music which I think he had to have in order to survive all that he went through and so festive overture also becomes one of his funnier pieces to me. Because I don't know that he really cares about how festive it is and by the festive over sure composed in nineteen fifty four a year after Stalin died so it sounds like there might almost be a little bit of Manic There yeah kind of a manic celebration may be at the death of Stalin but it's also written to commemorate an event can't that drastically changed just his life. I think kind of for the worse the October Revolution you know. Yeah so you played this as a high school timpanist. I and you loved you. Say this moment near the middle of the peace with the snare drum. Listen Uh Sean one is that given that much of the time. You're waiting to play as timpanist. That's near piece is so much fun to listen to you. Because he's kind of giving over over the the piece to this drum which never ever happens in classical music snare sort of like an accessory for militaristic pieces and so I think to hide the orchestra. Draw the strings under the snare is a really clever and funny thing and also makes it seem that much more militaristic so what happened to Shostakovich after Stalin's death which I'm sure didn't and the terror that many people felt what we see that he's getting a lot of attention lately the BSO. The Boston Symphony Orchestra Breath is recording all fourteen of symphonies. What did the last chapter of his life? What was that like well by that point? He's doing some film scores. He has a sort of with more modern career. He also joins the Communist Party which is quite strange after all that he's been through but he does signe up and his legacy into the back half of the twentieth century and even till now I think is pretty contentious because he writes his autobiography you and he claims a lot of his work is meant to be interpreted as subversive that he never agreed with Stalin. But it's very easy. I think to retroactively. Say What one's work is and there are a lot of people who doubt that about Shostakovich. And to think that he was just very willing to go along with whatever the trends and desires were of the Soviet government in order to survive while there might be some debate over Shostakovich. The seem to be any debate about his symphony number. Seven which was written again for the siege city of Leningrad it was seen as a tribute to the millions of Soviets who died in World War Two and the city under under siege. In fact they played symphony. They debuted it and these terrible circumstances and the piece seemed to be a symbol of resistance to totalitarianism awesome. Yeah I mean I think what is so compelling about Shostakovich's music is that he had all these complex ideas and that he really was very very political composer given the time and place that he would so he was allowed to create complicated subversive art and then also very straightforward symbolic art at the same time well and given the Times that would make him a very nervous composer. You'd be jittery to Hoffner. Who writes about classical music for W Q are in New York friend? Thank you so much. Thank you Robin. Ohio has one of the largest amish populations in the country and many the settlements settlements are in rural counties where access to health care is scarce so one project is bringing breast cancer screenings to Amish women breast cancer being the leading cause of death among Amish Women under sixty from W. O. S. U. Page Pfleger reports. It's a typical mammogram room. If you went to a hospital it would look exactly the same. Holly Race is a mammography. And she's dressed like one to her shirt is covered in pink breast cancer awareness ribbons. It's nothing really a different except that it's a moving vehicle. This exam room is on wheels a large coach bus pink. Of course today it's parked Outside a Mennonite church in Fredericksburg Ohio within a buggy rides distance from some of the largest amish settlements in the country. Really what we like to save like to bridge the gap between the culture of Amish Mennonite communities in the culture of healthcare. Melissa Thomas is the director of the Center for Appalachia Research in Cancer Education and she organizes mobile clinics like this one about twenty five times a year we try to find screening locations that are in the most remote sections of the state that are serving the more than likely a more conservative group of Amish. That may not have access or availability in to the local hospital systems. The majority of Ohio's Amish Settlements Settlements are in Appalachian counties were cancers that can be detected by preventative. Testing occur at higher rates. There is little data available on the Amish Rush but Thomas says what she has found in her own research of Ohio. Settlements is startling in what was disturbing to us that the leading cause of death of Amish woman under the the ages sixty was breast cancer beyond distance. There are other reasons amish women underutilized methods like mammograms. There's a language barrier some in the community. We are more comfortable speaking Dutch or German than English and cost can be an impediment to the Amish. Don't participate in the health insurance market. Instead pooling money for the procedures in a group fund plus many Amish women say they don't know what resources are available. That was the way with me when I had my diagnosis. I what what do I do. Where do I go? You know it was felt like being out in the boonies of about it. L. Miller is eighty years old amish and a thirty year survivor of breast cancer. She's a community health worker with the project. People think that a mammogram program will cost cancer. It's very hard to get that out of their mind. Research shows the majority of Amish Women underestimate breast cancer risk and are more likely to believe that sort of Myth Miller says that makes it difficult to get women in the door in a nearby county a community health assessment and found that about sixty percent of non amish residents had had mammograms while only twenty percent of Amish women had if they do receive positive test results it can be even more difficult to encourage them to seek medical intervention. There are some people think that is meant to be. And that was God's plan end in their life and whenever their life ends so be it. She feels her mistake. Demy years ago gave her a chance to help other women in her community. You should still do what needs to be done. Yes God will help you but you. It also have to do your part after a diagnosis. The project helps connect women with nearby hospital systems for further care then. The mobile clinic rolls onto another settlement for here. Now I'm page. Pfleger will twenty twenty be the year of an historic third trial of impeached American President Right now. Both sides of the aisle are fighting over how to go forward last night. President trump repeated. It's all a hoax. Complaining complaining. He had no witnesses in the house. Impeachment of course he held back subpoenaed witnesses Douglas. Brinkley presidential historian at Rice University. WHO's also made at a few minutes for us today to scan the horizon and also adjust the rear view mirror Douglas Brinkley? Welcome back and happy New Year. Well back at you happy New Year. Well well and let's hope you know what do you think. And that's why we have you here but I look backwards unless I said that rear view mirror may need a little adjusting because it's so close. But how are you looking at twenty nineteen well. It was a year of the investigation on Donald Trump. I mean the early part of two thousand nineteen it was like a tick tock. Slow Motion Movie Waiting to find out what the Muller report would be in ended up If not what exonerating Donald Trump. It didn't destroy his presidency in any way shape or form in fact it kind of cocked up his hubris factor and over the summer. We're he made the overture to Ukraine. And when it started the investigation of Joe and Hunter Biden I think history will see it as a showdown year with the main lead characters being. Donald trump and Rudy Giuliani. Nancy Pelosi and Mitch McConnell. They're all they'll be four gold star name aim. There's people try to sit through. It happened this year You know what else is interesting about that. None of them are I have great deference for those who've acquired acquired wisdom through age so I say this with that in mind none of them are spring chickens. Isn't that interesting it is. It's the sort of last act of the baby boomers. What's going on here They've been feuding since the days of the Vietnam War You know there's a lot of revenge in the air. We've had the impeachment teach mint process of Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton now on Donald Trump But you know I think a mistake I feel people make in two two thousand nineteen it was that they keep connecting. What's happening to Donald Trump to Nixon and Watergate but when Congress met in in February of in one thousand nine hundred ninety four with that starting an impeachment process? It really was the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression. You had a democratic accented. You had no Fox News or of conservative media outlets You had angry conservatives that Nickson soon because he had created the EPA and the clean air and Water Act and the like some people call Nixon the last new deal president and there was was actually a Crimes being committed in Watergate So this is just a different kind of impeachment it has nothing to do with Nixon. Seems to to me to be more like the the Clinton fury of the Ninety S. Well except for the payback that you mentioned because I think I can hear perhaps a younger voices saying what is he talking about. You are so right that there's this through line post Watergate. We know that there were conservative. William Kristol on Roger Ailes who joined forces and who said we're going to create a brand new media. We're never going to let this happen again. Meaning The Washington Post doing the reporting that helped take down there. They're Republican president. And this has been a grudge match since then and now you have people like president. Trump's one of his top consultants Roger Your stone who has a tattoo of Nixon on his back and there does seem to be in the culture. This sense of we never got over the sixties couldn't agree more and I call it the long sixty meaning there was a feeling that the US A- government was overreaching. Its bounds that it was punished in corporate America America to such a degree that they created a business roundtable and they started trying to create a new ways to get their public policy messages. She's out in the seventies you got the creation of the American Enterprise Institute in Heritage Foundation and Cato And one okay go on and on. And then as I mentioned the beginning of right wing talk radio and a new more aggressive conservatism. That took hold during the Reagan years. Couple that with citizens united and all this money going into politics and we're we're at a constant war there really are two America's is going on here along the jump in and say three because I've been dying to ask William Kristol and we hope you get the chance. How he feels about having been part of building the infrastructure infrastructure of this because now of course he is one of the Conservatives who is very much appalled by the direction Donald Trump has taken the conservative movement in and yet he he laid the groundwork for that? I'm going to just ask you last thing as we look back with an eye on the clock. You mentioned that. The Muller reported the beginning beginning of the year didn't exonerate president trump. But that's not the message that got out and I just want to ask you about that because Muller very clearly said. He couldn't clear him of charges of obstruction destruction of justice and felt that it was up to the Congress to look at that. And then you had the president's Attorney General William Bar come out and completely completely interpret them all report another way to say it completely exonerated President trump just as an historian. Talk a little bit about what's been happening in the White House in this attorney general in particular. Is this something that you find resonates elsewhere in history Richard. Nixon had Has His attorney Ernie General Mitchell who was a bit of a handmaiden or or lackey. And I'm afraid of bars behaving that way. We're dealing with the trump administration. It's the most scandal plagued administration in US history It used to be worn hurting. People would talk about in the teapot dome. uh-huh scandal in the like Donald Trump loved him or despise him. Or however you feel about them you can't get around the fact that there's one scandal after another part out of it because he's a government an unorthodox way part P.T. Barnum and in Buffalo Bill. There's George Wallace and Strom Thurman in Lyndon Larouche and he's a composite of a lot of strands in American history but he's a very unique person and so I think years from now this will be facing in an age of trump That he came in and kind of re blew up the Republican Party and re modelled it to look like himself so interesting you you name scandals and people have been noting the some of the different little things that happened over the past year. Forget impeachment I'm for instance. The trump charity being shut down because of abuse of funds. I mean that for any other president would have been the end Edit Harley is a is a headline ah look ahead Douglas Brinkley. Your thoughts on twenty twenty the health of the constitution going into the near the health of the country. Your thoughts wolf. I won't be upbeat. I could say this impeachment processes working because the founders put it I it goes to Congress and you have to have fifty percent. That's not that High Abar. Anybody who's majority can pretty much determine if fifty but they made it to actually remove president two thirds which is very very hard to do so once suspects. Donald trump is going to Move forward out of the Senate trial and be fine so the drama. Uh of the year at least up until the summer is going to be what happens in the Democratic Party and it's worth noting that Joe Biden is been able to hang in there he's constantly in the top of the polls. He's got many challengers but we'll have to see and watch how he does. But when the Democrats meat in Milwaukee in two thousand eight hundred twenty for their convention that'll be one hundred years since women got the right to vote and I would think the Democratic Party has to have a woman on its ticket ticket. Meaning if Joe by Bernie Sanders or or or someone else a male got the nomination I would think somebody like Senator Club. Char would be in pretty good stead to be on a ticket because they can't imagine the party wanting to be in Milwaukee with two white men leading it because the Democrats are party of diversity and gender rights seem to be one of their strong suits or you know me to push that point. Don't even further Clover Shark Warren as her VP or Warren Kapit Clover Shar Douglas Brinkley. His latest book is American American. Moonshot John F. Kennedy in the space race. He's a presidential historian at Rice University Douglas I say happy New Year Uh Deep I mean I guess it depends on where you stand whether or not will be determined to be an optimist because the president's that have been great Theodore Roosevelt Abraham Lincoln in Oh by FDR John F. Kennedy Ronald Reagan. They all were optimists. You can't can't lead a country in a under a pall of pessimism historian Douglas Brinkley. Thank you so much. Thank you as many of you traveling back from holiday or well aware grabbing something to eat in the air are can be rough think long haul flights short stopovers conic jet lag limited choices disorienting schedules and for vegans. Forget about it. When Vegan in Matthew Air started his career as a pilot a little while ago he had trouble finding food and that's when his alter ego the veggie pilot was born a veggie people issue issue boy Matt CEO Veggie Pilot Dot Com? And I'm going to show you how to pack for a five day trip with all your own food all completely Vegan. So we'll start. Matthew has helped for you vegans. These are those just trying to eat a little healthier as you find your way home. He joins us from L.. A. Where he's based Matthew. How did this start? It started I swear to you one day here in lax lax. I wasn't even based year living here anything but I went to when a little restaurants in the airport on our little layover and Got A veggie Sandwich and it was is white bread with this government cheese and sprouts and maybe a slither of Avocado charged me like thirteen dollars and I remember swearing to myself that I would never never ever pay money for such awful food again and also known your Vegan that cheese would have been no. Let's explain to people vegetarian. Is You know. Oh non sheet but Vegan. What can't you eat? Vegan means no animal products whatsoever. That really becomes a challenge. And so you started first of all bringing being things in plastic bags bringing things with you. What would you bring so I brought all kinds of crazy stuff because I was experimenting One of my favorite things were these Vegan meatballs so I would bring up a plastic bag full of spaghetti and Another bag full of pasta sauce and then with these Vegan meatballs. I combine them on a plate and he in our little the crew room at the airport and got lot of a lot of looks to in that everyone curious and kind of friendly about it but it was pretty funny but you also had a feeling that you weren't the only one that there were other pilots and flight attendants who had the same eating desires. I knew there were. I mean. There's probably over five hundred thousand flight attendants the US us. And I was doing some research online to see you know Google Vegan pilot nothing popped up. There was a forum for pilots on there where someone asked as possible even be on a plant based Diet while being an airline pilot and a couple of people said no be too difficult and meanwhile I've been doing it for five years at that point so I wanted to build a website just as is a landing page if someone were to Google Vegan pilot on there just to say. Hey someone's out there doing it. It's possible well. And now you have thousands of followers and you you also have found out the times of change that many airports have terrific Vegan restaurants so to many cities. Throw out some airports that have restaurants that you recommend Sacramento Airport. has this little restaurant called fresh excellent vegan options. There's another restaurant in Oklahoma City at the airport cool Greens. I believe excellent Vegan options. Sion's their Seattle airport. Is I think dethroned Portland Airport is the king of Vegan. Now Portland's always been great spot if you're Vegan. They have lots of restaurants that have vegan options uh-huh and Portland airport regulates the prices on the food so the restaurants can't charge any more than they would at their restaurant in the city. So you can get a cheap Vegan meal there you talk about the red cop up in Oklahoma City. I love this place. It's like this old house look. I called the crazy Vegan. Uncle's house right. Now it's out in the woods. It's got this beautiful wonderful outdoor garden area and there's a rooster that's just walking around and they make these amazing tex-mex bowls or Santa Fables usually. It's with scrambled. tofu black beans. They put this excellent New Mexico Style Green Chili on top. And it's kind of buried in this place that you would think would be more of a carnivorous town right. And this is the kind of thing that you put on your website that you pilot dot com this kind of thing but also give us more tips for if you don't trust the airport and may not know the city or be able to get out into it. What can you bring with you now? The big thing when you're traveling Vegan you have to think about what's going to be easily accessible to you and the two things that are easily accessible are Greens right because you can go to any restaurant get a salad and just have them remove the non Vegan parts and then the second part is carbohydrates so you can get some rice or whatever else you need the key be going now. The big problem is going to be a protein so easy way around. That is just is. Pack yourself a nice tasty vegan protein shake in a powder in a bag. You can bring this through. Tsa All you need is a blender bottle to mix it with water and you can and make a shake. And when I travel internationally when I went to Tokyo I was doing two of these a day. There are some great vegan spots in Tokyo but for the most part unless you're going Vegan specific take restaurant. It can be tough to get that protein or anything like that or you can bring protein bars. If you're more comfortable with that you know the describing this makes it sound like wow. It really sucks to be Vegan in traveler. And well it it is inconvenient at times. I like to say there's low lows but then there's a really high highs you find that one can spot on your journey and it is. That's incredible that's Matthew Air VEGGIE pilot with social media sites that help guide Vegan and Vegetarian pilots and other travelers link up here now dot org and he's also helping kids with Food Insecurity Matt. Thanks so much for talking to us. Oh thank you so much for having young. And so what. He's doing a math. You told us that yes. Companies pay him and to advertise products. He approves of on his instagram page with the money he earns from those ads goes to help the boys and girls clubs of L. A.. Harbor exit passionate is here now is a production of NPR and W aren't association with the BBC World Service. I'm Robin Young on this first day of the twenty twenties. That so much easier to say than the Austin it's here now I'm Robin Young. Nearly fifty million people in the US live with chronic pain. A National Geographic reporter dives deep into the latest on pain research including sufferers wearing during virtual reality goggles other aspects of the virtual reality experience perhaps dominate the conscious experience thereby lessening the next time.

president United States President trump Dmitri Shostakovich Iran Robin Young Douglas Brinkley Stalin Kim Kim Jong Iraq North Korea Kim Jong UN Baghdad US Senate Joe Biden Communist Party Oklahoma City NPR Congress
He bought the law

Future Perfect

33:32 min | 2 years ago

He bought the law

"They just look at the picture in here got I had the picture them to hold on Jean mayor is the chief Washington correspondent for the New Yorker. And she's flipping through her book for an old photograph. Here he is John M Olin. Kinda central casting plutocrats. We're looking at a guy who's wearing a blazer and a pocket square gets to go out on a hunt with his dogs his dogs were beautiful. I have to say he really did have gorgeous looking labradors. We can't fault him for that. No. John Olin was more than a stuffy guy with some good dogs. He was also one of the most influential conservative philanthropists of the twentieth century in, Jamie. Here's book, dark money, she does a deep dig into that influence. He is the founder of the Ol- impounded nation. And he is the inheritor of the Olen company, which is father started, though, Olin company made all kinds of things from mining explosives, to munitions to chemicals John Molin inherited the company from his dad, and he was a stickler for hard work, according to one biographer, he didn't really believe in days off, and that hard work mindset, translated into some pretty conservative values, China Molin was Perry anti-government, but the truth about the Oland business was that it exploded, thanks to the government, I and World War, One in the defense industry, and then even more so in World War, Two the income come. Became one of the biggest private companies in America during that period interests like Andrew Carnegie in our last episode John Oland port, the money, his family made with government help into some very questionable philanthropy. From the bucks, media podcast network. This is future perfect a show about trying to do. Good. I'm Dylan Matthews this season. We're looking at big philanthropists, and how their money shapes the world around them without anyone else having vote Olin foundation has profoundly changed American society. We'll tell you how it is changed our courts how it's changed our universities. And how it's changed the conversations we have about conservative ideas, but to understand why all in I decided to get political with his philanthropy. We need to go back to the nineteen seventies as our good friends in Jefferson airplane. Explain this was not a great time for stodgy capitalists, and hunting, suits. Olin was upset about this cultural shift and he was angry about mounting regulation of capitalists, like himself, I worked hard to try to understand his mindset and a lot of it has to be speculative. But what I noticed was that the direction of his philanthropy changed as his own company became a target of the new, more militant environmental movement. There was a lot to target, for example, in a tiny Appalachian town called salt. Fill the Olin company had a chemical making plant that was pouring, like hundred pounds of mercury a day into the drinking water right into the streams suddenly people begin to realize that mercury was causing her Indus birth defects, and there were these pictures in the New York Times of particular mercury speech. Well, in Japan that showed these babies just horribly deformed, people insult fill started asking questions, what is the mercury doing to us, and the environmental movement, was just beginning to take off and take note of this sort of thing, and it cracked down on the Olin foundation there, the renew regulations and before long the company was being targeted with hundreds of millions of dollars of cleanup costs. Oland was seen these regulations and expenses piling up on the one side. And then on the other side, Houston, a rise of political correctness. Houston student protests that is all my monitor Cornell and radical cultural changes on and off campus. And he finally said enough is enough, and it's at that point that you see the John M Olin foundation changed from kind of traditional giving it things like hospitals. The conscious things that wealthy. Families in America had long given to that. We're not particularly political to something, very political if the country was leaning left Olen wanted to tilt it right again. He wants to build a counter intelligence. Yeah. In American academe Lia and take back the colleges from the leftists and hopefully train up a new generation of conservative students. Luckily, I was able to interview people who were involved in this process. There is a very thoughtful man named James Pearson who I talked to who also worked for the Olin foundation. All right, fire away. See if I can help you. We also talked to James Pearson. He told us the back in nineteen eighty one he was working as an assistant professor at the university of Pennsylvania. He was seeing the same leftward shift in academia and his friend, William Kristol now a really famous conservative activist told him you should check out this place called the Olin foundation. One thing led to another. I went up and talked to them. And they hired me at the old fundation in nineteen eighty one nine hundred eighty one was also the year that Ronald Reagan took office. So it was a great time to be a conservative in politics and the intellectual world's not so much. You know, at the time we came into this, there wasn't much going on at all the conservative world was tiny, but the foundation staff had tens of millions of dollars to make that world grow, you know, we didn't know where we're going it was very experimental. Will we saw good program? We put some money behind it. There's no overall plan really though and foundation, basically planted a bunch. Of tiny political seats, watered them periodically and watch to see if any of them would sprout. We'll keep back in hindsight. It's pretty clear that some of those seeds not only sprouted the grew into really powerful trees. We're going to look at five of those seeds turn trees today. The first conservative media. In the seventies, there were some conservative magazines but they weren't widely read. And we were just talking to the choir. So the all in foundation said, we need to fund grants grants grants for books books books. One of those was Charles Murray's book about welfare. They it you know what they fronted a new criterion. The American spectator is another magazine they funded firing line funding for this firing line. Debate is made possible by a major grant from the John M Olin foundation, which was kind of a debate program, our topic tonight is resolved, the ACLU is full of bologna, where you had William F, Buckley who was spectacularly articulate. The reason why it has got the reputation of unfocused bunch of is, is that it has earned that reputation and he would come out there and just? Go to war with any liberal on television. You principal threat to feed him in America is crime and as C L U comes up the attempted ban on capital punishment. The overweening social problem in America is the loss of mall coordinates and the view. Oh you tries to clamp down on religion. Forever chose its public face the need for civilized with strangers. And so it brought these conservative arguments to the entire country through their television sets firing line was on PBS for nearly thirty years. And for a lot of that time it was paid for by the all in foundation. And the other grants grants grants for books books books paid off to at the American spectators peak. It was selling hundreds of thousands of copies initial in Charles Murray's book about welfare in the nineties, it helped inspire one of the biggest welfare reform laws in decades conservative media was no longer dead. And while the Olin foundation, wasn't the only force behind. It's wild growth. They definitely helped cultivate it which brings us to the second seed that the Olin foundation tended to conservatives among campus. When the other things they began to do was pour money into college publications that were conservative. The major one was the Dartmouth review. It was edited and run by a number of people who later became very important voices of the conservative movement. Massive demographic changes have been foisted, upon the American people. You've got Laura Ingram writing in it. Who is now a FOX host. You have to Sousa filmmaker local commentator, author diminished, a Souza's at our desks, discussing his book, the big, lie, exposing the Nazi of roots of the American left and want to get to the book in just a minute. But I would like to hear more about the time you call this is a dick that is my various Fistican colleague as recline talking to few years ago to Tim Geithner, who is the Treasury Secretary for much of Obama's presidency, and Ezra's asking about one of the Dartmouth reviews, worst moments. It was a time when there's an early stage of the conservative movement among college campuses and Dharma's was one of the epicenters of that movement and conservative students at that point start a newspaper called the Dartmouth review and they published a confidential list of members of the lesbian gay soon lions, and including on a bunch of people who hadn't come out to their friends or their parents, and it was devastating to them. I grew up in Hanover, New Hampshire where Dartmouth is the reviews activities are legendary there. Well. Over the Dartmouth review, does, who's also published an interview with a Ku Klux Klan leader. Xtra edited photo of a black student getting lynched on campus. Serandon anti-affirmative action article written entirely in Abban IX. I'm not even comfortable reading the headline. What it just looked like was, how students are becoming conservative. They're writing these treatises and running these publications and you would not have known unless you looked really carefully that there was a stream of funding coming from a handful of very conservative, corporate donors who were deliberately trying to change the politics and public opinion in America. This was one of the Oland foundations more moderate, successes undergrad still lean liberal overall. But the third seed all in water, too deep root on law school campuses and grew into an established branch of the law. It started as part of a broader Olin push to make law schools. More conservative, what they realized was they could easily build up their own academic institutions on the ride, but those wouldn't have any power standing because they'd be seen as fringe. And if they wanted to really have influence, they had to take over the prestigious institutions, which is harder than it sounds, you can't just do it frontally, because the academics will resent it and resist it. So they have to be a little more snaky than that. The all in foundation would find faculty members who were conservative, and then they build up a center for them at their school. They were very careful though, in how they described these programs. They realized that if we said, this is the center to prove that marks. Awesome is a lie that a university wasn't going to take their money. So instead, they came up with the serve anodyne cryptic titles for their programs things like the Madison center for freedom, the super successful, third seat that Olen watered was one of these powerful programs with a cryptic title lawn economics. I mean listen to the title of that law and economics doesn't that sound bland? Basically, the idea was that lawyers and judges should be considering economics and making their decisions. And like, how could you be against either law or economics or any combination of them? It just sounds good. But let's say your company's polluting a lot. And let's say the people who were affected by your pollution, take you to court before law and economics. The idea was if you injured somebody with your pollution, you absolutely had to pay for it after lawn economics. That wasn't. So obvious. Yes, you had to say, what are the economic impacts of punishing company for polluting? You know, how much is it gonna cost the company, maybe you shouldn't punish a company for filling towns river with mercury because they closed the plant and people in the town would lose jobs? And maybe you had to be more careful before you said something was a monopoly in an antitrust case, because then the companies involved, couldn't grow, and employ people and make money. And maybe if you give hersher prison sentences in criminal cases it create more of a disincentive for crime. So it had a conservatizing influence, and that's basically what it was about. But it sounded very bland. And so if, if it has this concert has an influence. How do you get places like Harvard and Yale and Chicago on board with this, what, what makes this attractive to these big institutions? Well what happened particularly the way it worked its way into Harvard was kind of an interesting story to me. So at some point in the early ninety. Eighteen eighties. Let's say nine hundred and eighty five it was, in fact, nine hundred five there was a conflict at Harvard University law school, Harvard was hotbed of leftist new thinking about the law. There was a group of what they call critical legal theorists, radical lefty, professors there at the law school, who began to teach the kids that they should turn against corporate law. They're encouraging the lawyers. There are training to go down to the high level law firms and sabotage the law firms in order to undermine the free market or capitalist system. So that was written up in the New Yorker magazine at some point in the middle nineteen eighties and some of the old funders graduates of Harvard Law School were incensed, of course, a school like Harvard law. They wanna place to top graduates in the big law firms. That's what they exist for the dean was concerned about the reputation that Harvard Law School was begin. Inning to get as a result of this. And at that point, the Olin foundation struck and the dean of the Harvard Law School got in contact with one of our trustees and asked if we could would support a program, which took a different point of view toward this. They saw it was their moment to say, hey, we've got plenty of money, and we can give you a program that will give another point of view, it won't be. These lefty professors. We've got some ideas about how you can teach law and economics. This should be a law and economics program at Harvard. That's how they got through that door. And we did fund that quite generously in as goes, Harvard law. So goes everywhere else, the rest of the campuses, said, well, harvards doing at we should do it to pretty soon. We heard from some people at Yale Law School, which we fund in very soon we heard from Stanford law school, which we funded very soon. From Columbia, which we. Within a few years. The Olin foundation was funding lawn economics programs at most of the top law schools in the country. I think we did have an idea at the time that whatever the top schools did the lower level schools would have me late pay would have a domino effect. And that's how it all began. Earlier. Jane Mayer use the word sneaky, which sounds not great as the were saying that the Owen foundation tricked law schools into adopting. All this didn't trick anyone but they definitely had their own agenda. There's another great book about the Olin foundation by political, scientists named Steve, tell us tell us ask James Pearson about all of this impairs and give him an amazing quote that I read back to him in our interview. Give me a second to read it. If you said to dean, that you wanted to fund conservative constitutional law, he would reject the idea out of hand. But if you said you wanted to support law and economics, he would be much more open to the idea. Lon economics as neutral, but it has a philosophical thrust in the direction of free markets and limited government. It seems neutral, but it in fact, isn't yeah. I probably shouldn't have said that. I think that I think here would be the point. We never tried to manipulate the universities and tell them they had to do something that we want them to do. They always came to us, we understood, and I understood because I'd been in academic that you can't tell universities and professors what to do. That's impossible. Olin foundation money. However, definitely changed the schools. Nowadays. Lon economics is a common field of law. All the major law schools, have a couple of people doing it and they have journals in it, and they do research at all. These students going to line economics classes, they become lawyers and judges and law professors, and they take with them this basic idea that you really need to crunch the numbers when you're making decisions you have to make sure that you're not costing company too much causing too much job loss when you're enforcing a regulation, and then the other idea, they had that was brilliant was. Why just expose students to this ideology? Why not expose judges two judges for already on the courts. We're going to take a quick break. But then the last two seeds planted by the foundation seats that have reshaped how judges judge and who gets to be a judge at all. The on saying Arianna 'Grande and Drake are talked about ad nauseam celebrities. But there's one thing that's rarely discussed their music on switched on hop. We go deep into the sounds of pop music, explain what it means. How it's made. And why it's so effective. We talked with some of today's greatest artists producers journalists code, the musical logic behind our modern soundtrack and understand its role in our culture switched on pop. Won't reveal for you. How a secretive Swedish producer behind many of the top ten hits of the past twenty years. We'll uncover the ways that songwriters embed their political activism into today's most popular tracks. We'll show you this apprising musical civil areas between Cardi B and Tim and will even dive into the classical pass to hear how the Jonas brothers MIR Mozart's youthful party days. I'm songwriter, Charlie Harding. And I'm used collagen Nate Sloan join us on a journey through the world popular music by subscribing to switched on pop on apple podcasts, Spotify or. Are your favorite podcast app to get new episodes every Tuesday? I'm Todd Vander the host of primetime. A new show from box com this season we're tackling the American presidency on TV stories that capture the way television effects, and reflects politics and culture. We'll take a look at fictional presidents, who changed the way we think about the real Oval Office, that isn't gentlemen. The president of the United States. Warning, PLEASE take your seats and how real presidents US TV to further their own goals. What did you come here to plug? Have you heard of the formal correct from the first TV president people have gotta know whether or not their president's crook? Well, I'm not a crook to arguably the last, we have fighting the fake news. It's fake phony fake primetime. From the vox media podcast network, N, vox dot com. Listen and subscribe, wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to future perfect before the break, the Olin foundation, took a seed of illegal discipline lawn economics and helped it spread through reputable law schools across the country. But the also watered, a different law, economic seed, a series of programs for judges kind of like little summer school. And it was really it was really fun these summer school like programs were called. Manny seminars named after this guy, Henry Manny who organized them, and they're holding these snazzy. Tropical resorts, you'd go to classes in the morning where you'd be exposed to law economics and kind of basic conservative and libertarian theories of the law, but then in the afternoon in the afternoon, everybody would swim and golf, and they bought an play tennis, and then they'd have sort of these lovely dinners together, and it was all free for the judges. There was a seminar, all about the economics of wine with wine tasting and there's an incredible photo of Milton Friedman, the super libertarian economist, giving his own lecture, he's an Hawaiian shirt in front of a blackboard with a smile on his face and sunglasses on it looks like. A blast and I think the camaraderie was probably wonderful for the judges and, and, you know, just that alone was big draw. There's a judge in my family. So I know a little bit about it, and he described. It's lonely business you're by yourself having to make really difficult decisions. So these judges are at these resorts palling around drinking wine in learning some pretty wild things again, this was law economics. So there were being asked to think hard about economics and how it might apply to the law. Take our pollution example again, line economic suggest that you should consider the cost for the company, if you make them clean up their act. But one communist in these summers took things further. Yes, judges to think about all the air pollution in Los Angeles. A serious problem back in the day. The downtown Los Angeles skyline was routed in smog again today. Commuters driving into the city saw it slowly emerge from a dense grey, haze, millions of people or coughing and weasing their way through the worst Tober smog attack in almost a decade, not crate. But the economists said and this is red from quote, if you give me a capsule that will clean all the air in Los Angeles, beg me to crush it. I will not cross the capsule because if I do poor blacks will have to pay twenty dollars more for land rental and the black and watts already used to living with bad air, loses his discount for doing that. He's basically arguing that because black people have adapted to the crappier of Los Angeles. It's more important to keep the air bad. So that rent stay low than to give them clean air and the judges weren't just learning about pollution. I remember Henry man, he would give his lecture on the idea that there is no such thing as insider. Trading and I should eliminate all the laws on insider trading by the year, two thousand something like sixty percent of the federal judges had attended the seminars which is astounding that includes judges who later ended up on the supreme court Ruth Bader, Ginsburg attended and apparently enjoyed herself a lot. She said quote, the instruction was far more intense than the Florida sun. And we have good reason to think that this training matter. A recent paper by communists Elliott ash. Daniel Chen, and Sarah Naidoo found the judges who went to Manny seminars were likelier to rule against the PA against labor unions and four businesses. The seminars taught that long sentences can deter crime so jets who took the seminars imposed longer sentences. My favorite finding is the judges who took classes with Milton Friedman gave lower sentences for drug crimes because Friedman wanted to legalize drugs. The paper is called ideas have consequences in the Oland foundations history is proof. They really do. Olen was hugely important in law and economics. It's amazing. How successful they were. I think they got one of the biggest payoffs for any kind of investment in conservative philanthropy, anywhere. But there was one more seat that you'll invention Asian watered one that arguably hadn't even bigger impact on the courts than the Manny seminars. The federalist society the federalist society. They came to us very early in nineteen eighty two. They're a bunch of students law students, and they'd had a conference at Yale and they wanted to continue it. These conservative students wanted to set up a national office, treat, a large organization, I remember being skeptical of that. Why do you wanna create a national office? You're a student group in some law schools, but he figured why not give them some money and well, we know what's happened, the federalist society over the last thirty five years, just in case you don't it's since become one of the most influential legal networks in the country with two hundred law school chapters, and tens of thousands of members before long, it had krone into kind of. A credentialing process where if you were a member of the federalist society, you had a good chance of getting a clerkship with the conservative judge because it kind of did noted that you were part of this Qadri, and so other conservatives flock to it on campus. And it really helped people get ahead. The federalist society invites promising young law students to informal events like barbecues where they can network. Justice Clarence Thomas, attended at least one of these networking barbecues, for example, wearing a Hawaiian shirt and chatting people up federalist society, which the New Yorker magazine called the conservative pipeline to the supreme court. It's the Lincoln for conservative lawyers. I mean, I think at this point the federalist society which began with funding by the oil and foundation has succeeded way beyond the wildest dreams of John M Olin. He could never have imagined. How important it's become the. Society provided a shortlist of potential supreme court justices to President Trump. President Trump basically delegated the role of picking supreme court justices to the head of the federalist society Leonard Leo feigned by many conservatives. As President Trump supreme court whisper and Trump also the federal society, drew up lists of judges in the lower courts, and so they've really become kind of the unofficial pickers of America's justices in the Trump era right now on the supreme court. There are five justices with deep connections to the federalist society. John Roberts Samuel Alito, Clarence, Thomas Neal, Gorsuch, Brett Cavanaugh. And there are many more federalist society judges in lower courts across the country. I've come to think that it's a perversion of philanthropy to turn it into an extension of politics. I mean, face it, what you've got here are handful of the richest people in the world who are exerting outsized pressure on American politics, simply because they have the extra money to do it Vic big tax deductions to build up foundations they control and there's no transparency. There's no accountability. And it's just on the face of it, an antidemocratic force. I was particularly surprised to hear this from J mayor. But it was really curious which is Pearson would say, if I asked him is there something at least challenging to our norms of democracy about having billionaires with particular preferences, having this kind of influence over the ideas, the governess, basically, has most of your career been spent doing undemocratic thing. James was a really good sport about it, though. Yeah. That's a good question. Are these legitimate instruments for influencing thought in a democratic society that these vast pockets of wealth, on accountable, anybody again, exercise, great influence in our society? And that's not right. James also argues that there was money coming from the left as well as the right. And so the rate had to fight back, somehow, there's one that debate to be had about whether the left or right. Gets more money overall, there's a recent book that tried to add it all up and found the billionaire. Overall or kind of conservative, and they donate their money accordingly. But the fundamental question is should anyone left or right? Have this kind of power, just because they're rich, that's a, a modern development in American politics. If you ask me as a healthy development, I'd probably say no, the whole thing. If I could just redesign it from scratch, I probably would not include it, but I don't have those powers. America's posed to be all about people freely arguing for their vision of the world big rockets robust debate, but the rules of the debate aren't fair, not everyone gets to enter you have to be really rich to play at a high level. So it falls to rich liberals, like Tom Steyer. Enrich conservatives like John Olen to wage that fight. Sometimes they're fighting to protect their money, stop people from regulating the places that came from just up courts from ruling against their businesses. But their motives, don't need to be narrowly self-serving to be troubling. John Lynch foundation wasn't geared toward making the old Inc. Money, but it was geared toward spreading Johnson's vision, even though most Americans probably don't share that vision. This isn't just a problem with explicitly political foundations like Owen next time on future perfect. We'll talk about how supposedly humanitarian work in poor. Countries can raise similar issues, and there are few better, illustrations than the experience with the Ford Foundation in India, I would say that the time of station is something that is remembered as a sad and scary time. That's next time on feature perfect. Perfect is produced and co reported by birth Pinkerton or editor is imagers. Dasa our senior producer is Jillian Weinberger, and were mixed by Jared fact, checking by Laura Bullard, our music is by APM, Noam, Hassenfeld, and pob intesne bear. Syringe naidoo. Amanda, Hollis Bruschi, and also Connor were super generous with their time this episode. Thank you to them, and we're going to have QNA's with Sereshk Amand on the site. Things also Steve tell us, he's book on all. This is great and bends sauce, Casse, who also took the time to talk us through ideas future perfect is made possible through a grant from the Rockefeller Foundation. Treat more of our reporting on -ffective altruism, took out FOX dot com slash future. Dash perfect.

Olin foundation America James Pearson John Olen John M Olin foundation federalist society John Olin John M Olin Oland Olin company Harvard Law School president Harvard Milton Friedman FOX John Oland the Dartmouth review Yale Henry Manny
The Trump 'clown-iverse' continues; and China's unrealistic green energy goals

Between The Lines

29:08 min | 8 months ago

The Trump 'clown-iverse' continues; and China's unrealistic green energy goals

"This is an ABC podcast. Get I there and welcome to between the lines. This is Tom Switzer it's too heavy company. Now Today on the show Jingping told the UN General Assembly recently, the Chana if you like really wasn't global trendsetter in reducing its carbon footprint, he declared that carbon emissions would take before twenty thirty and he also predicted niche zero emissions before twenty sixty. The reality though is very different as Patricia Adams will tell us later on. Stay with us for assigment on China's greatly backwards on climate change. But first another crazy waken US politics. Remember this. Now back they sure you. In fact, let people know Senator I'm not going to answer the question. Because the question. Just as radical left would you out Mason who is on your list? Not. Surprisingly, the media responds to the debate especially Donald Trump's plan rudeness it was overwhelmingly hostile wasn't it? Couple of days later, trump was diagnosed with code. After mixed messages about health trump got in a car and run around waving to supporters. Then he was released from hospital he returned to the White House and he went on one of those twitter rants among other things. He told the American people not covid even though he's doctor has said, he may not entirely be out of the woods yet. So, what does all this main awake after the debate and only weeks before the US presidential election and what does it mean for America's image in the world? For answers. Let's turn to a leading. American Common Taito a conservative who says he's quite sick of living in what he calls Donald Trump's clown verse or drama drivers over believers or I can't believe these guys actually the president. Verse. Brad. Stevens is a columnist with the New York. Times, and formally with the Wall Street Journal, where he won a Pulitzer Prize for opinion writing I should just warn you all that he comes to us via a scratchy on in Manhattan. Bread. Welcome back to the Shire. Back Be Sydney. Well, the rate is of the New York Times I can't wait to see the end of trump you yourself are prominent never trump you your New York Times columnist this week you say you was trump will give us just a few reasons why I wish a speedy recovery. I think to wish ill. To reduced to his level on that, of course, it's been. Core of the trump EST project which has been to based political norms and diminish moral standards. So why would I wanNA join trump along along that road a bit for more narrowly political reasons. I. Wish it well, because God forbid he were to die before the election, he would go down so to speak a undefeated. And what I hope is that a resounding electoral defeat in November and I'm speaking of the conservative. will put an end not only to the trump presidency, but she trumpism as a an ideological force. In American politics. Now. You rauch trump. The man needs to leave and lose because it's the only way the trump cult might die it unsubscribe to the cult trump obviously. Is that why you among that never trump was. Are exerting very little influence on the political right in America these days. You know I I hear that and. I was struck by the disconnect between my supposed- irrelevance and irrelevance might never trump fellow travelers. And the fact that the president. Describing us as human scum the conservative press keeps denouncing us if we're really quite so irrelevant, you think they want to go so much energy. Truth. Election that is probably going to turn on a small number of a relatively small number of voters in swing states, and so I think we're not quite so relevant have some people allege and stressed that never trump is include many prominent conservatives lock yourself William Kristol George Will Max Booed David. Brooks. David. From and Applebaum. Jennifer from there among others. But you see your critics would respond inside the Elat media consensus with there on the left or the never trump conservatives they've been consistently against trump wrought from that said. And Nights. I haven't you guys foul to understand what got America trump and indeed Britain brexit in the first place. You know. I'm not quite sure I agree with the analysis. Is and came about in part because there was unquestionably failure of the mainstream conservative establishment, which I guess I was park in recognizing some of the populous tides in American politics. I think it candidate for a much more specifically than which was a luxury crisis. In Europe, but went unchecked help create brexit brexit had knock on effects in the United States. As well, and and I would add a larger point com, which did you those who are listening here are left in any healthy democracy need a mortally healthy a conservative movement. There's no democracy that doesn't have a conservative side of politics. and. So even our adversaries are opponents politically should want us to succeed want a conservative movement that is optimistic that is inclusive that is in favor of growth, and that favors the open society and the free world. That's the way I can feel, okay my politics, they remained unchanged from the days before trump and hopefully will remain unchanged. Have said analysis requires us to listen attentively to individual voters tell us about your subject to Chris you right about her and you'll recent York Times call him. She's a registered Democrat and a trump voting lesbian store manager from Manhattan, and she fits none of the cultural demographic stereotypes of the trump by Brett tell us about Chris. Chris is a woman who is well educated. Well traveled and as you mention, she is She's gay and she the trump supporter and I one of the things that I I occasionally will be with my column in The New York Times. Is. Essentially. handed over not not fully. But at least partially handed over to Voice of that I think the predominantly liberal leadership of the Times. Need to could here because What she observed is that at least until the pandemic, her savings accounts or pension or private pension account for the United States a call four one ks. Arising smart. The economy was doing better in her view than it had been under Obama and that that's the counted for voters like her as opposed to you know questions about the president's mannerisms or read myths or his coarseness on the world stage and I wrote it Tom for the simple reason that Hillary Clinton would it become president? Her supporters hadn't been so convinced. That it was only a bunch of rednecks Yak. In the middle of the country, we're going to the trump. He is indeed and make the point. She's not an outlaw. She's a red voter in a blue state. My guest is Brit Stevens he's an award winning columnist with the New York Times. And we're talking about. Well, let's be frank. The crazy times in American politics. Let's turn to the debate bridge sixty years ago October nineteen sixty. The World Watch the Kenji Nixon debates we were too young. We went even. We weren't even born. To civilized will informed holly. Intelligent. Courteous Navy combat veterans are both in their forties. And yet six decades later. The world's being shocked and horrified. By the time of the first presidential debate these to all men engaging in A. An angry angry exchange is the best the both major parties can offer the American people sixty how's it come to these? You know when I was when my wife I ever watched, my wife has his permanent immigrants United States actually came a citizen. BECCA very. And I have to turn to her engine apologize for bringing her country because it was mortifying fortunately, the United States is a lot more than its leader. But debasement of politics has been long the making and it's one of many reasons why I just can't accept trump as president even though can time-to-time agreeing with his policies because he is he has brought the state about politics shoot a level that. Be chargeable to describe it as over Banana Republic and and you know onto. The Kennedy Nixon debates that I am are well enough to follow up one of the great issues that debate. The status of key Moi in Matsue, he's a little time with his island off the coast of mainland. Just unimaginable that piece to standard standard-bearers would have that kind of exchange although I. Walked by what Action Nowhere Chemo in that. So actually are. Yes you said that Donald Trump in that debate was channeling Alec Baldwin Channeling Donald Trump and yet he was holy himself. I get all that but is a more wrong with America than Donald, trump, Brad Stevens yet they're into lot more. You know I think Adam Smith Donald trump is a symptom of of some of that ruined but in seeking to an Australian audience I think it's worth remembering and reminding this audience that there could. Be Fixed his right in America and I hope our Australian for. Electric. Okay. Then but trump the reluctant patients he's pushing the image of strength. Could he be poised to turn this disaster into triumph for all? He Mike honor a fair amount of sympathy which my debate performance behind him for at Stevens. I think anyone who is writing off. Trump or Joe Biden has selection all but wrapped up. In fool remember what happened four years ago when Hillary Clinton's rock solid this election do very much up for grabs and four weeks is back Legno. So we'll see. Harold. Macmillan. Would agree bread always great to be with you. Being pay. That was Brad Stevens, a Pulitzer Prize winning columnist within New York Times. This is between the lines with Tom Swift. Making sense of Australia's place in the world. were. At the United Nations President Gee Jingping he promised China would be cabin neutral by twenty sixty and the media left it up. But he's the Chinese Communist Party leadership genuinely committed to slashing emissions to becoming carbon neutral in four decades. Patricia Adams Executive Director of probe. International is a Toronto based environmental think-tank. She's author all of the road from Paris. That's China's climate U-TURN. It's published by the london-based Global Warming Policy Foundation. Patricia welcome back to Radio National. Thank you very much now China, has been hailed as an emerging green superpower. Is the leading market renewables. It's massive Sola femmes a transforming global energy also told. China, endorse the Paris climate deal in two, thousand fifteen, and of course, G. as you just heard then recently talked about China reaching knit. Emissions by twenty sixty you're a skeptic about all this why? Well, the promises that he made a recently are no different than were made in two, thousand and fifteen. At, the Paris Club would win the agreement was signed. He promised at that point that China would peak its emissions by twenty three. So nothing new there as for the forty year. Prediction that they would be carbon neutral. Well, it's really meaningless it so far off into the future, and of course, establishing a carbon neutrality is virtually impossible. To what's really going on here I think that the Chinese Communist Party is fighting for its survival. It is doing that by trying to create jobs and also by cleaning the air. So their biggest vulnerability with respect to their own population is providing an economy that will give jobs to people. So that they won't rebel and also by clean the air, the polluted air became one of the flashpoints in China. In the last decade because people were fed up with breathing the the polluted air that was killing them you bye by best estimates, there are probably half a million people who die from polluted air every year in China and it's not just air it says soil and water as well. So for the Communist Party to Survive Scott, it address these two issues. That's that's it's focus and the it knows that the only way to do that is by pursuing and securing fossil fuels. Cleaner fossil fuels than they have they have used in the past and they know that, for example, the renewables are simply not up to the job they're not going to do it. To maintain those fossil fuel is they've got to develop their own coal supplies. They've got to pursue development of further oil in the country, which is very tough because they really only have legacy fields now that they're trying to extract the last bit of oil out of they've been unable to increase their gas supplies significantly because they being centrally planned economy they don't have much innovation, they don't have price. Signals. They don't have incentives the the industry's not really interested foreigners have tried to go in there and to do fracking and have given up after a while. But we pop hearing that China has the world's largest installed renewable energy capacity, wind, and solid development and China's reliance on call in its energy mix that's coming down. So doesn't that suggest the Chinese government is indeed making big cuts to emissions No they're in percentage terms. The amount of energy that's coming from cool has gone down in absolute terms it's gone up. The amount of energy that's coming from renewables is still a tiny tiny fraction of their total energy supplies and they're totally energy needs. So it it's it's Razzmatazz. It saw they built huge a solar panel fields in rural areas and I. I should add that there's a lot of pushback on that people don't like having their their land taken up they build windmills, people don't like living next to win Moses well but but when you put that all together, it's a very small percentage of the energy that is needed and demanded by industry and citizens. Meanwhile, fossil fuels continue to be the the the main source of energy in the country. and. That's why China's working very, very hard to secure supplies. For example by securing the so China Seas and declaring sovereignty over that, they want to secure their their. Just, to clarify he your line is that the the Chinese Communist Party is focused obviously on economic growth and for the disabled fugit cabinet MG. Reminds. The cheapest Y of growing their economy and reducing poverty, and that's why China is the world's largest producer and importer end-consumer of call that jewel Lonrho. Not just thought call Yes for sure but also oil and gas and they are developing some more innovative versions of methane gas and Converting some of the coal into gas as well. So they were if you put all of those fossil fuels together still attributes and accounts for about eighty four percent of their their overall energy supplies and it will continue to do so a kite. Now, let's go back to Paris like two, twenty, fifteen, the defenders of that climate deal they point to the green climate fund way by primarily the rich nations led by the United States and the European Union is supposed to provide around hundred billion US dollars in aid to developing nations to decarbonised their economies. It's been five years. Now since Paris was signed, how has that worked out? Not Well, they had a managed to raise six point, two, billion out of the hundred billion. That were supposed to be raised by today and they have one, hundred, forty, three projects. There's a lot of infighting apparently A. Very, poor management and it's not surprising. It was very easy for the leaders to go off to Paris and make these NGOs promises. But when push comes to shove, they just were not coming up with the money. Okay. But I mean how does by then made its emissions targets without these huge subsidies? From the OECD nations to support green technologies. Well it doesn't. It can only expand its. Renewable energy inside the country to certain extent it can export but even there it's being stopped by European countries. By the US who are are saying that a the technology was stolen the IP was stolen from western manufacturers that in some cases, the technology has trap door back doors that allow for making making the electricity system vulnerable in in countries, I European countries, or in the US. So there's real resistance to importing that technology into the industrialized countries the the Chinese government can promote it through the belt and wrote initiative, and they can finance these projects in third world countries and they are doing that, but that's also in trouble. They they're running out of money for one of with from the Belton road in the belt and road initiative, and they also are getting pushback from countries that they are expanding into and that they have these projects because as as many people have heard, they create a debt by the host government has to pay the money back in some cases the projects don't work well and so they resist paying the money back and so the Chinese government's having to write off some of those loans. So that's not going very well either occur. We'll leave us saw your point about the this green climate fund in the Paris climate deal. You'll critics I can imagine. That because sounds like based on fact that the his no one hundred billion dollars united from the from the United. Nations is not there for the Green Climate Fund but I would say the critics would say that as China becomes more fully industrialized Patricia. Its growth will be driven more by. Technology and service industries want that main a less carbon intensive economy in China Patricia Adams. It would not where they are headed is for. An energy mix, it's used in a western industrialized country. So like Australia or Canada or the US or European country, and we use approximately eighty percent of our energy comes from fossil fuels. So I don't know why China is suddenly going to become a green You know they're welcome to try but I don't think it's going to work because renewables. For example, are insecure their intermittent. They're not a reliable source of power until the the problem of storage in the form of batteries. Assault and that's been the holy grail for decades. Now, scientists have been unable to develop a batteries at work properly or the store enough energy for long enough. So the the problem with renewables you've always, you must always have thermal backup. So when the sun's not trying in the wind is not blowing you've gotTa have a thermal facility that you can turn on quickly if you expect to have a reliable source of power and that is true where we have an renewable power system. A. My guess is Patricia Adam she's executive director from Probe International CANADIAN-BASED NGO and we're talking about China's great leap forward on climate taking backwoods. It's hitting in the wrong direction now Patricia what about this China led trillion dollar built and road initiative now in recent years The world, Bank particularly under the leadership of President Obama it's been disinvesting in coal and other fossil fuels has the China laid built and road initiative been doing the same. No actually, they've been doing the opposite and this is something that environmentalists discovered. It was really quite predictable One of the things the Chinese government has always done is when they when they come to the end of building a project in, China, they look abroad to keep their workforce going that happened with the Three Gorges Dam for example they had a huge workforce that built it, and when the project came to an end, they had to do something with these workers. So what has happened is a very large percentage of the belt and road initiative financing is going to building power plants and they are generally more polluting power plants, coal fired power plants for the most part. Through many many countries. And I believe that there are three hundred of these projects that have either been built or or currently under construction in these countries. So hundred call for PAL plans. Yes or fossil fuel. Is Molly Ryan what East Asia and Africa Yes. Absolutely. Answer and Latin America America will well then. Bearing that in mind a bear in mind something by my colleagues. The Q. and I program put together. It's a very popula ABC panel program and it's a bit like the BBC's Question Time Patricia and the panelists all virtually agreed that Beijing's leadership could be trusted to stick to the zero emissions plans because their argument was lowering emissions in China is in China's. National interest, but the mind point now making was it this radical energy transition would hurt Australia exports to China his my radio national colleague Hamish MacDonald with the renewable energy enthusiast Mike Cannon Brookes. So my how does this change? The picture I if if these big customer of ours is changing its course on Energie what does that mean for us? look fundamentally I think it's it's even more worrying if it weren't already worried about fossil fuel industry, we should be even more run China will not only get out of importing, call any importing gas and other things over the next. They've said forty years but for call, it's in the next twenty years. They will get out of Australian products of those even Faucet, they will prioritize domestic supply won't have to believe and to question do you believe them? With their ambitions are believe. So because they're also trying to put their economy into a structurally better place that was Mike Cannon Brookes reflecting the recent Q. and I- consensus that China's commitment to zero emissions will damage strike exports to China Patricia. At tried to China accounts for something like forty percent of our export market and a lot of that has to do with on all and call how would you respond to that exchange? Well I think Australia is vulnerable to. Policies of the Communist Party of China but not for economic reasons and not for energy reasons but for political reasons. So I think if the Australian government puts. On. Other countries argues that, for example, there should be an investigate investigation into the origins of Kobe nineteen. Then you're going to get pushback from the Chinese government and they will punish Australians. It's important to remember that China fossil fuels are strategic to the survival of the Communist Party. The renewables are propaganda it's to paint themselves green. So the the Chinese Communist Party is always going to need fossil fuels and they're always going to need Australia's fossil fuels. The ISSUE BECOMES DO THEY WANNA punish Australia now this is a very important point because I, think what's happened is we have all realised since Paris that the Chinese government cannot be trusted. The they kidnap citizens for Australia kidnap citizens from Canada. They incarcerate them without cause They violate international treaties like the one-country-two-systems in Hong Kong and I think what's happened since Paris is that people have realized that the Chinese government cannot be trusted, and so for example, that the promise that president she has made is just hot air. It is just a promise there's nothing there. And as I said, fossil fuels will always be important to China to the Communist Party as they will to all of our countries. and. The renewables are really greenwashing trying to give themselves. A green cloak in this world in which they have become a pariah. Is Waking Up. To the fact that the for example, Chinese citizens, some of their most celebrated scholars and writers have called the Communist Party of vile murderous regime and these are their words not mine and I think that we're all beginning to understand that in a way that we didn't when the Paris agreement was signed. So if I were Australia ads, we would advocating Canada's well, it's time to decouple. It's time to reduce our dependence on trade with China because they are not reliable, they are not trustworthy Patricia to continued. Thanks so much for being on radio national again, map pressure that's Patricia Adams from Probe International in Toronto Canada. Well. That's it for this week and remember if you'd like to down lied past episodes of the program, download the podcast via the. Listen APP or wherever you get your podcasts. Coming up next week on between the lines Markle Pembroke, we should recognize the China contributes more to peacekeeping forces and counterterrorism around the world than any other country. And we should stay out of the internal issues within China. We've got to cut out the ideology and the moralizing and show some independence of national character and some pragmatism that's on our in coming up next on hyper continuing to between the lines then. You've been listening to an ABC podcast discover more great. ABC podcasts, live radio and exclusives on the ABC. Listen. APP.

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Remembering Owen Harries and Hamilton the musical

Between The Lines

28:51 min | 1 year ago

Remembering Owen Harries and Hamilton the musical

"Welcome, between the lines, this is Tom Switzer and thanks for tuning in not said I on the show Owen Harries Australia is a large continent to defend. It exists in a region characterized by a great deal of turbulence. As by far the most populous, powerful and wealthy country in the southwest Pacific it properly assumes responsibility stability in some of the smaller countries of the region which have serious problems. To meet these commitments. Australia spins under two percent of its Gross National Product on defense. It has an Army of only twenty five thousand men. In these circumstances for it to engage in serious military campaigns beyond its region, as well and to do so preemptively, and when it's not directly threatened is to leave itself open to the charge of being a cheap hawk, which is a dangerous and the responsible thing to be. Punching above one wait maybe a source of pride, but it is also hazardous and a form of activity best avoided. That was from the ABC boy elections in two thousand and three and the author Owen Harries who died last week at age ninety now. Harry's was a conservative Wilson Academic, a Cold war-era turn staunch of the war on terror led by the Bush, and how governments find out more about Allen Harry's with Francis. And markle fully love plus later in the show Hamilton this week Disney releases a film of the popular music. Down found without a fall God. For the bubble in the heart of the. Small me, so stone is. Baby. Stay with his discussion about Hamilton with Denis Boatmen. Well he was one of the architects of Australia's modern foreign policy, according to the Prime Minister and Foreign Minister. Kevin Rudd the former PM. He told me he was a genuine public intellectual of whom we have few Henry, Kissinger he wanted to plagiarize liberally at least one of these articles lease aisles, the prominent ABC journalist. She says he was the most delightful company and she was dazzled by his intellect. He, was so highly regarded that Conrad black the former Canadian media magnate. Quote he must have had a fault, but I never detected. However, he had his detractors. The opponents of the Vietnam War most notably Jim Canes and Tommy Aaron, and he disagreed profoundly with both the Bush, and how governments especially the decision to invade Iraq in two, thousand and three. All they syndicate Owen, Harries was a significant and interesting figure in the great foreign policy debates from the sixties to the first decade of this century now to he more about this leading foreign policy realist. Let's turn to our panel. Francis Fukuyama is director of Stanford. University's Center on Democracy Development and the rule of law is the author of the history and the last man which is based on a non ninety nine article written for Harry's national interest. Magazine Holiday Frank. Hi Are you very good and day now? Marco fully love. He's next guest. He's the executive director of the Lowy Institute. In Sydney and he's a ABC boy at lecture that was from Twenty fifteen on aren every year low hosts the Harry's lecture. That's nineteen honor of Harry's holiday Michael Hi, Tom now, frank, let's start with you. As editor of The Washington based National Interest Magazine. Harry's published your end of history thesis that was in ninety nine before the fall of the Berlin Wall. Take us back to those days. Well I met him I. In nine, hundred, eighty eight, I was at that time working at the Rand Corporation a think tank in Santa Monica. Monica California and we met at the Beverly Hills Hotel. He took me to a very nice lunch and was soliciting ideas for different kinds of articles, and as it turned out, I had been asked to give a lecture in a series on the decline of the West at the University of Chicago by the former. The late Alan Blum, the political philosopher and I told them while I'm going to write an article, but it's not going to be about the decline of the West. It'll be more likely triumph of the West. and he said sure let's do it and. It was published in the summer of one, thousand, nine, hundred eighty nine right as eastern Europe was undergoing this unbelievable a transition, and as they say, the rest is history so. It and you're you're indeed in your catapulted by you and what had been a relatively obscure journal to international attention raw. That's right and I think both I were utterly astounded that this happened, but you know that's. I think it's really a response to very extraordinary juncture in in human history, and yet Harry's although he'd been a cold war-era, he he was a realist, never really indulged in the triumphalism of America's call war vitry. Why do you think that was the case? Frank well. He wasn't American to begin with. He was a Welshman and I think he had more European sense of the limits of power and the tragedy of war, and all of these things that Americans very frequently forget given their a rather unusual history. And so he was skeptical. I think both about the importance of democracy as a defining characteristic of American, foreign policy, the need to promote democracy, and I think the use of military power, certainly as a means of achieving that, and that all came together in his opposition to George W Bush's war. Now we're talking about non eighty nine the full of the Berlin Wall the publication of Frank Fukuyama, is industry markle. You and I were in year twelve in nine, hundred nine. We certainly didn't know no. I want Harry's now, but he came. He became a bit of a mentor of Yours among others. Tell us more about your experience with on and what he meant to you. All in the early two thousands I was a young scholar at this new think tank Below Institute and Oh and was a non resident fellow with the Institute. He was an elder statesman with a story passed, and he was good enough to spend a good amount of time with with my colleagues, he would read. Out draft papers I was working on a book on Franklin Roosevelt which he was not enough to read, and I admired his writing I. Love the clarity in the elegance and the intelligence of his writing, but I suppose personally I particularly admired. He's at. He's ambition because he had the imagination and spa to believe that he could influence the international relations of the most powerful country in history, and for an Australian, this was exciting and always he encouraged my colleagues in I. AM vicious to write on big central issues, not on small marginal once and I remember he wants it to me. If you're going swimming Michael Swimming in the deep water, not the shallows and Indeed, indeed now he was a cold warrior of course throughout the sixties, a leading opponent of the supporter of the Vietnam War. And of course he he generated a lot of hostility on university campuses throughout the sixties and early seventies, and then of course he was a major figure in the the Fraser government before going to UNESCO and then having a horrible experience this horrible, he actually persuaded the Reagan and Thatcher governments to pull out of UNESCO. Michael eventually became a critic of the Pax. Americana a new American Century the idea of American global leadership. What do you think he opposed? Both Bush and how it on the war and Tara I think the Iraq war makes little sense in retrospect and I don't think it made much sense in prospect, and so I think Iraq offended owens, sense of prudence and discrimination and proportionality. It Jhad with his understanding of history is Frank Fukuyama. Referred to I think it was a once in a generation foreign policy decision in Washington got it wrong and I admired Owen. For his position. He was going against most of his friends and his fellow travelers, which is an uncomfortable thing to do, and I would say even for me in at at the beginning of my Korea I. For Me Owens opposition to the war provided me with some confidence and cover, because all of my mentors in friends in. Washington pretty much with supporting the war. The debate was more divided in Australia, but the Australian government and it's advises, and cheerleaders were all in favor I was opposed to the war, and so it felt comforting to know that someone of Owens history and stature and intellect took the same view. Well, this is from the BBC. Boy Lectures of two thousand and three. He's Harry's on the fallacious case for a war on Iraq. Indeed, it was inconsistent and surprising incompetent. With dubious and shifting rationales, being offered one day, weapons of mass destruction the next day links with al Qaeda. After that the cruelty, the regime and the liberation of the Iraqi people. And, then Sam's alleged, reckless unpredictable nature, which it was claimed ruled out terms and required preemption. Given all this caution. And discussion. Rather than eager an unqualified support. Would have been inappropriate. Australian response appropriate indeed not only in terms of Australia's own interests, but that of it's great ally, and it could have been accompanied by a clear statement of our need to give priority to dealing the terror where it was most likely to impinge on us. That is not in the Middle East, but in southeast. Asia, that's on Harry's on the case against the Iraq war Frank Fukuyama. I think another factor at that time was a more personal one. Owen cultivated a group that would become famous as the neoconservative movement. Including people like William Kristol Elliot. Cohen and Norman put horace that were almost messianic promoters of that war. A-, Paul Wolfowitz was the official in charge in the in the Bush administration that was key advocate, and it's hard to explain at this juncture. How? Way Arrogant and self confident this group of people where they said well. We're get Iraq. I and we'll go on to Iran and then Syria and then North Korea and we will use power to remake this entire part of the world and I think that just defended Owens sense of how the world works that. Power is really not able to shape political outcomes in that sense, and that's what it means to be a realist. You're a realist about your limits, and you realized you really cannot Reshape the politics of places that are so deeply different from you culturally, if it to be show, Markle, fully love Australian supporters of the US led invasion of Iraq. I, think John How it Alexander Down and Tony, Abbott, for instance. They would still say that. Because of cameras high profile support for Washington. That we built up a lot of credit in the United States, and the American people and that this justified. How Woods strong support plausible well, it's more plausible I think in the Strand case because the judgments on Australian participation are not so clear-cut. We didn't lose many soldiers. The financial imposture Australia, though significant was not astronomical, and as John How instead to the lowy, institute in two thousand and thirteen on the tenth anniversary of the war. Alliance considerations were were uppermost in his mind so they it's plausible, but I would say that and I would agree that an lines is a serious matter, and it requires us to support our ally, even in the hard cases as we did by helping. The Americans eject Saddam from ninety one and the Taliban from Afghanistan in two, thousand and two. So I think those are important points, but an alliance doesn't require us to support ally when allies in the wrong when our ally is making a grave era, and that's what Iraq was. It made the United States weak- pour less respected and less feed and given that we rely on US power for Allen Security we shouldn't have gone along with it so to analyze it purely in terms of our reputation. In Washington, I think you can I. I think that's arguable inundate. Even I noticed this week Donald Trump was. Was Mocking John Bolton, still believing that that the Iraq will was right, but I think actually. If we really believe in the alliance, we should take a lot of you and we should. We should not go along with grave errors that ally ally is making and active self harm in which it is engaging. This is between the lawns on ABC Radio National My guests markle fully love from the Lowy Institute and Francis Fukuyama from Stanford talking about Owen. Harries now for the the twenty years of the Post Call Era. As you well know frank you, you. Were there president of the crash of all this in the post cold? War Era? He was a leading critic of not just Iraq, invasion and the war on terror, which we've just been discussing, but also NATO. Expansion the interventions in in Bosnia and Kosovo big issue in the mid. Nineties Any containment China, frank. It's always hard to know these things, but how do you? How would things be different? If US policy makers on both left and wrought if they had followed the cautious restrained realism of our and Harry's Frank Kusuma. It's hard to. It's hard to really know what would have happened under those different circumstances, I think some of those judgments were. Wrong in some for example NATO expansion I participated in those arguments. I was in favor of NATO expansion unlike unlike Owen. and I think actually in light of what happened late. You know people blame the rise of Putin and concurrent Russian nationalism on. That I'm not so sure. I think the people who live closest to Russia meaning the ball to the polls that Georgians Ukrainians. Had A in a way of more realistic understanding of the long-term. Imperialism that was the trajectory of Russian foreign policy, and in a way I think they saw more clearly the fact that. You know NATO expansion in a way was just an excuse for a Russian. Resentment or a means of legitimating kind of revanchist attitude that was then fully expressed. In later years by by Putin on the other hand, you know some of those. Cautions I think were were well taken. I think American power is not been deployed well outside of Europe in general I think in the Middle East. We really do not understand that region and. I think there was A. Broader reason to be careful in in in those circumstances I we'll back to the end of history in today's. What's been called the Democratic recision. He's Harry's again in two thousand and three at the time Fukuyama article appeared his own mentor and Teacher. Professor Alan Blum of university. Expressed the view that fascism could will make a comeback. Others stressed the durable force of nationalism. More recently I was interested to hear the Australian. Historian Geoffrey Blaney, tentatively, Predict Revival of socialism in the next few decades that was Allen Harry's from two thousand and three a Maga fully love. What do you think is most likely to define the coming epoch? Well, it's hard to say and I remember that Owen would always caution the young scholars at the lowy institute to resist the tyranny of the president, and just as he felt, terrorism was I've done in the aftermath of nine eleven. He would probably be cautioning us now not to over analyze for example, the affected the coronavirus pandemic but I guess I would say partly in homage to Owen that the. The long term trend since the end of the cold, or has been the rise of nationalism and the return of geopolitics, and we did think that a liberal international order had settled on the earth, but every day the liberal international order looks less liberal unless international. This lady and the contest between Nation States has resumed, and cooperation is declining now they're account availing factors and in a way, International Corporation has never been more important but I, but I think that the big trend that I've seen the last well since the end of the Cold War has been the persistence of the nation state the return of nationalism, the resumption of geopolitics I think that's probably. That's we can only see through a glass darkly, but but but if you squint outside, that's what future looks like. Nationalism populism socialism, ill liberalism frank your thoughts on the new era. That's those are all possible. I think the opposite is possible I think that. The covert crisis has laid bare a lot of inequalities, a lot of big weaknesses and institutions and the shock like this oftentimes is a to reform and that's possible I do think however in line with what Michael Just said. One of the long term transit actually to me is really quite depressing as the decline or decay of the United. States. As a world power I think that you know I I argued that this was going on well before Donald Trump's election, but I think that he has accelerated that process a very greatly the bilateral comparison between China and the US right now really does not make a the Democratic Side of the ledger. Look very good, and I'm afraid that a lot of American allies are hoping and expecting that if Joe Biden wins the election in November that the US will snap back into its international role I think it will in certain respects or certainly formally, it's probably. Probably, going to rejoin the WHO and you know the Paris accords and so forth, but in the longer run I think that there's been this great weakness. Just basically are polarization, and that's not going to go away even with election of a of a a Democratic president in November to be continued. Frank McConnell thanks so much for paying your respects to Owen Harry's. Thank you John Thank you, thank you Tom for your your great loyalty to him throughout his whole life. Well, thank you Franken. Let me just say own was probably the wisest bloke I've ever known and. I never completed a conversation with him without having been made think about something that mattered as the mark of a True Public Intellectual Gentlemen thank you so much. That's Francis Fukuyama author of several influential books, including most recently identity, contemporary identity politics, and the struggle for reconciliation and Mauka fully love. He's the executive director at the lowy, institute, who, in two, thousand, fifteen, he himself delivered the. Boyle lectures. BBC's between the lines with Tom Switzer. Well this week, Disney released a film of Hamilton founding father of the US Republic. It's a classic. Have you seen or heard about it now? The musical at first came out in two thousand and nine Rack Obama was president and writing in the conversation. Just recently our next guest says the optimism that accompanied the election of the first black president has given to the grief and anger of. Of Black Lives matter now to address Hamilton and to get his take on the State of America in two twenty twenty. Let's turn to Dennis Altman, he's a professorial fellow in human security at Latrobe University. In Melbourne, he's many books. Include Goal Vidal's America, Fifty First Sight Que- wars, the new global polarization of gay rights and most recently unrequited love. Hi, there. Dentists welcome back to Irene. Alexander. Now Hamilton is a musical drama built around the story of Alexander Hamilton prominent founding father. Tell us more. Hush was probably were very unaware of Hamilton because he never became president as many of the founding fathers did, but Hamilton was a young guy from the West indies who got taken up as a protege at George Washington then became the first secretary of the Treasury of the new United States. He played a major role in. The discussions and debates that led to the drafting of the US Constitution. And most famously I guess. He was killed in Nineteen Oh four in a jewel by Aaron. The. American politics today represents toxic polarization. Go. Well. Let's hope that nobody in the current presidential round decides to take. This is direct model the how to resolve differences the the music electricity end stuff surprising with the jewel. In fact, much of the the story of Hamilton told through the eyes of our. Out Who's WHO's a major character in the production. And I think he has to say about Hamilton, his squad extraordinary. Amount of political and historical information much older than we would expect in a musical, so you get in some ways A. Very, very clear picture of off laid up to the war of independence, the politics thereafter there's a scene in which you see. The horse trading that went on to ensure that the new capital of the US would be built. In what became Washington? DC So in that sense it's it's remarkable introduction to the history of the United States. Yes, and running in the conversation you say quote if Hamilton is innovative in its music and staging. It's politics are in lawn with the dominant American. Meath that anyone can find success Dennis Altman. That tastes began because I started thinking about the way in which the American musical is very much. The ongoing American story of anyone can make you know. The classic American musical is is Judy. Garland Mickey Rooney back somewhere in in Missouri, becoming Broadway Stars and Hamilton is part of that tradition. It's also part of tradition that politics are from the central theme of a number of musical and an Indiana. Go I point to some of the precursors of Hamilton. Going way back to show boats and Hammerstein people now minute realize that when South Pacific was first produced it coolest huge consternation, and was banned effectively in some parts of the south because of its depiction of interracial Romance Dennis Altman from Melbourne's latrobe university. He's my guest and we've been talking about Disney's release of the film version of the Musical Hamilton on July three. Dennis. Let's turn to the state of America. You're obviously down out about America. You've had a long affair with America. You've lived there for about eight years of your life. Understand and you go vidal and you've written a lot about Golden Al. Your love affair with America is over why? I'm not sure it's totally over. You Know Great Love Affairs never totally over although. I? Guess that I was allowed to. Years is like a lot of people. I've watched in horror as the United States seems took come increasingly unable. To meet the basic standards, a good government, and effective politics, you but one control low than deploy trump still at MoD, the liberal progressive tradition in America you think of the New York Times Washington, post PBS, MSNBC Harvard University the Ivy League all those galleries, the commanding heights of American Culture Dennis remained very liberal progressive correct. They do I mean we could we. We could fit a lot of time for example talking about Harvard University where I spent periods. The visiting festival straighten studies, but the reality is the combined weight of those liberal institutions really hasn't been wasn't sufficient to stop the election of someone deeply deeply unqualified to be president and has been very unsuccessful basically in checking his behavior since he has been elected. But if Joe Barton is elected in November and all the available public polling evidence at this stage points to a Baden victory, and the Democrats control both Houses of Congress and burying him on of course, the demographics in America which many many. Scores of is moving in a more left direction. Doesn't that cheer you up? I would hope. But you know I'm old enough to. The period Richard Nixon I. Think there was something of the same sense that the American system file so I'm certainly aware affected can bounce back. I'm. Not sure that Joe Biden has the either the personality. By shoot. Really Bring your not the United States. But as you say if if with him, you get a Democratic Congress that will certainly be. A large number of shifts I think most importantly though. Will that lead to the s a third, the polarization will the forty percents, the United States who are deeply committed to trump. Feel that they've been robbed that they're being treated. Become even more disenfranchise more angry. And notwithstanding all those internal weaknesses and divisions and limitations that you highlight is a widespread view emerging in this country. If you look at all the available polling evidence that we need a strong activists engaged America in Asia to counter a rising China, what show view we don't. Do you think of this only in terms of of defense against China? We need a strong United States. For a whole set of global leadership issues in previous global epidemics, Abullah Sabas HIV. It was the leadership of the United States. Ultimately that made it possible to have real global reactions, and so I think what we need is the united. States to come back in that sense. I'm always prepared to to argue as previous secretary of state did that. The United States is the indispensable nation now other country has the the POW the economic, the military, the intellectual power. To provide. That's SORTA leadership. Dennis. It's great to have you on the program. HYPOC you, it again then is open from latrobe university, and you can read his review of Hamilton. The musical turned into an you. Fill in the conversation well. That's it for this week's edition of between the lines. This is Tom Switzer and a heavy continuing again next.

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John Zmirak

The Eric Metaxas Show

44:20 min | 3 months ago

John Zmirak

"Is podcast is one of the salem podcast network for more. Podcast like this from courageous voices of conservative reason visit salem podcast network dot com Folks this is our to remember our one. that's getting buried. We're now in our to coming up my maniac friend. John's iraq is coming up but before my maniac friend. John's mirror my semi maniac. Friend bruce fogarty who's also in dallas all the crazy. Christians are in dallas bruce. We're talking about your amazing idea. The easter cross witness for people just tuning into this hour. I'll just explain it briefly on palm sunday. You put out a white cross on your lawn. if you're watching by video bruce's holding up the cross you just put out a simple. It's like normandy. It's a simple beautiful white cross. You put it on your lawn and on easter day. A week later you flip it around. Shas zam he is risen and look underneath that and it is finished yes is risen and it is finished its powerful stuff you also have them in spanish. Yes them for. Greek people resource honesty in in the website In case people. When i just want to get this out front so we can talk. Easter cross dot org gordon easter cross dot org. It is an amazing idea. You were talking about in in our one of about how a woman dragged. Somebody dragged your kid over so that you could explain what crosses they'd seen it on the lawn day after day and the kid needed somebody to explain to him. What crosses i mean. This opens up real conversations. Not in the woman's what's this all about. You know you see there. Were process all over the bed. My son's drive enough and that point. My friend said i had a decision to make. Was i disconnect. Fluff it and said you know. This was a jewish family. I think of why is slough this time you know we have their processes and other religions have other symbols and we have the eastern crosses in a global battle with the easter bunny. By the way know we cheat and she finally decided. Now i'm gonna. I'm going to share the gospel with son and he said the purpose of this year has risen. Jesus has risen from the dead Because of that fact having a perfect life he's earned the right to forgive you and i and this is something we celebrate because no one else has no one no one else has saved your entertainment space. You came lived the simplest life approach the dead. And i've had so many stories there while it's process about the cross pictures of the cross went to hurricanes down. We're talking flat in the process. It's this process. I've got pictures across coming through hailstones. Were half the cross you know is pelted stones buyers. I mean it's again. It's not my idea if this is my idea for. Jesus jesus his idea. It's the most important event in the history. It's not the resurrection of jesus christ and influence in some status true changes. Everything isn't that the thing is that you know. When we're we're so sensitive in america you always a jewish person anything. excuse me. Jesus died for every jew. Now if they don't know it guess what. Maybe it's our job to tell them. Jesus was a jew. His mother was italian. Just kidding there was a jew. I mean this is the most jewish thing imaginable and some of the most profound believers in jesus are ethnically jewish their friends of mine and they get it better than the gentile and and this is true. This is for everybody when when you act like this is our thing it it is definitely not our thing. It is every person and god has given us the ability to share this thing with everybody. And if you're shy so bruce you always say that what central to this is prayer You you know. We're kind of talking here in joking and it's exciting. But you're telling me that putting this white cross out on a lawn and flipping it around on easter morning that this has changed lives. I mean it's a simple subtle thing. This is why i get so excited because it's so easy to do. It's so basic but many people don't know about this. So i said i'm going to have you on and i want to exhort my listeners Go to eastern cross dot org. There's still time but you gotta hurry up. Easter cross dot org. But this is i literally can't think of anything like this. I just love it. Whoa you gotta prayer sheet with the. It's why there's three inch request. We've put the cross up other lawn. Remind ourselves we all need reminded ourselves. This is real. Jesus rose to pray that this will affect in your neighborhood. The second player is it. It's the second pray. Pray that the holy spirit we use the cross and and ring ring draw people. That's what the holy spirit does it give opportunities for witness and the third prayer as we is a little caveat. July is we take the cross is down. May we have the great live. Like jesus lives. And maybe even be saint francis of assisi who said he had breached the gospel. Alzheimer's of all places. An all ways even met resorting to words. People need to see the song. Eric for the hear the words. They don't want a bunch of uptight in outside christians. You know giving them a give them a pitch for the gospel. People need to see joy in our lives. They need to see that you know. We've got some tough things in this world of happening in We have rough times ahead but our piece is not based on the world. Our joy comes in something. That's outside of this. And and if we if the chris evangelical this country around the world have the joy and peace of the lord of the fruit of the spirit. That'd be jumping in shirt saying they want some of that. I keep saying that like the funny thing. Is that the way. Many christians behave there people looking at that and they're thinking whatever it is you have. I don't want it. Because i want to be like. If we really really believe the central message of the cross that god sent his son to die for you and me this is real and that he raised him from the dead. It was the greatest miracle in the history of the world and it opens a door for all of us that we can accept. Jesus our sins can be forgiven. We can go to heaven forever. It's literally the greatest story ever told. It's the greatest news we could ever imagine. It's not just good news. It's amazing news so the question is do we really believe it and does it. Change our lives and i again. You know when you say that when you send the cross's out they get this prayer the idea that it makes us think. Do i really believe this. Am i living like this is true. Or did i forget. Do i think of it as a metaphor or a nice idea like the lilies and the bunnies and the chocolate eggs. I hope not. It's the most profound thing in the history of the world. I needed more than i need. These more than anything. I need to remind myself. Praising world were busy running remind by south of the central fact. Jesus christ is risen from the dead so i hope folks out there here. This rejoined the easter process witness We can do order online. Easter cross dot org. We'll get processed shipped out one two or three days dependent how backlog we are plenty of time to get your Listen you. You're my friend and i think this is just the greatest idea ever. I'm hoping that people in my audience will will do this. This look folks think. How crazy does this could change lives. It's so subtle. It's so beautiful. It's god idea. Easter cross dot org go to easter cross. Dot org and folks. We've got john's mirek coming up. I want to remind you before. We go That we're doing this beautiful thing with food for the poor. Please go to our website eric. Metaxas dot com and check out food for the poor the banner. We do need your help. Bruce fogarty I'm just proud of you my friend. This is a brilliant idea. Easter cross dot org. Thank you for sharing this brilliant idea with the world and with my listeners. Thank you god bless you wish weight live than he is risen. Ali thoughts on st then Expanding task you eight folks eric. Metaxas here with a message for anyone struggling with pain. Like i struggled with for years. Of course i want you to know about relief factor the one hundred per cent drug free supplement that tens of thousands are now taking every day. Obviously i'm taking it every day. Because i like being out of pain if i forget to take it for like a week i go on vacation. The pain comes back. So you know i yes. I was skeptical. But i kept hearing about all the people that were no longer in pain friends of mine so i decided to give it a try in fact. Here's one of the stories. I heard been in back early twenties. Now i'm fifty one in early. Twenties worked for the state prison. I got injured. I was off work for about a year now. Train engineer. Basically sit all day long my wife making me take relief factor literally change mama. I don't feel like i'm twenty again but my back. Does everyone knows you want something drug free. You want something that will help your own body deal with the inflammation that can cause the pain in your neck back shoulder. Hip knee or foot pain. Actually even general aches and pains from just getting older from exercise everyday. Living all of these can be real problem even t the extent of keeping you from sleeping through the night. So here's what i'm suggesting. Pete and seth talbot. That's the father son. Owners of relief factor. They created what they call a three week. Quick start pack trial pack. They discounted it drastically to nineteen ninety-five. That's about a dollar a day after that period of time three weeks. It's about the cost of a cup of coffee a day to stay at a pain. That's the three week. Quick start for just nineteen ninety-five and he should know this about seventy percent of the people who ordered the three week. Quick start for nineteen ninety-five go on to order more. In other words it works so do what many others have already done. Take pete and seth talbot up on the offer. Relieffactor dot com order the three week. Quick start that's relieffactor dot com relieffactor dot com or call. Eight hundred five hundred eight three eight four cups. I get to talk to john. Muir you get to participate by listening. And of course most importantly by going to mypillow dot com using the code eric or my store dot com and using the code. Eric john. Are you aware as we start that If you go to my store dot com where my pillow dot com. You need to use the code. Eric where you wear that. Yes or no gas in. I was briefed by that in the twenty third hour dots nations. Yeah no for no further questioning. I love i love. How many different products. They're selling my store and i recently got the amazon. That wasn't woke. God wouldn't it be great but that's the whole idea. That's why i think like might my Mike many of my books are available. Right at my dot com. I kinda thought it by them. They're folks and don't and i always tell people while you're there get some of the chairman of the bird poultry rub. She admitted the bird culture of john. What should we talk about i Yesterday i spoke to your friend. Jack maxi or an off your friends but you you're tip me off. What a brave guy be talking about. The hunter biden laptop. And what a weird. It's so dark. It so spiritually dark that you have not just corruption with the communist party potentially right your looks like that but that you have all other horrifying sexual stuff. But i mean it. You couldn't make it up. It's just it's so horrifying. It makes me wanna pray for for hunter biden. I don. I don't mean that i think that We should have this corruption and malfeasance in our government. But just when you think of a person's soul oh absolutely stunning hundred buying. It was the least talented member of the family was the frail of the crime family. That is the image used bagman simple. Maybe him the passive you know something. I didn't think of that. But that's that sounds right. I just hear hundred much more respect. Everybody says michael. Look i wanna. I wanna say it's so it's so dark Listen i believe that God's hand is on this country i don't i don't think it's over for america and i think that there's going to be a reckoning. I think that this stuff has to come out and it will come out. It's we'll see what happens. Is the way all these jesuit priests in american. Bishops are flocking around by saying. Oh he's a he's about kauzlarich. He's the second character american prison. We raised the vision for a lot of your night around him. And that's suddenly when you see. Then you think you look at the by emails and you look at the fact that joe biden was the guy siphoning off fifty percent of the prophets from communist party enterprises ukrainian oligarchs. And you know new dollars stolen longer and you think okay. These are the same people who were shuffling pedophile. Priests all around the country. It's john f. Kennedy brought prostitutes into the white house. Technically i think that makes him not catholic. And i think that when you are very pro abortion as in the case of joe biden and john kelly technically. You're not actually catholic. So the idea that the catholic church would would proudly welcome them as sons of the church. That's really sick right there to speak out on this two things. First of all the kennedy family in nights guess. They're surviving cans ted and and Robert in nineteen sixty four summoned bunch of liberal jesuits to high end sport to think of ways to justify supporting legal. Abortion berkoff apologised sixty four when the word abortion still something. You wouldn't say mixed company saying abortion a party would be like showering up the end words day so who was. Who is there hess berg. I'm trying to remember. I don't remember the name i don't think has for. He's not easily jesuits from boston. College and other assorted places. When you look up these i can. These names are listed. Philip waller's book on the fateful. The party and you will get their books. They have boats into the sixties and they're all jaded titles trying to hit. You know like your personal hangouts in the kingdom of god to get kids to the people of guy. I can see i can already see the typeface and this is not rebuilt the snot green bell-bottoms ascot's by indian patterns oppy to the beatles. John i i was just gonna say anybody who's watching this on youtube. By the way we hit two hundred thousand subscribers to the youtube channel for the eric metaxas show the thousand subscriber Gets nothing and that's a firm promise now But listen i just wanna say people are watching this on youtube. Most people are listening on the radio. But if you watch on youtube you get to see us and much more importantly you get to see that behind. John are the two cutest dogs. I've ever seen look look look at this. This is unbelievable. They are so gorgeous. I know that's a photograph. It's not a video or set. They're not live. But i know they are alive and they're running around your house right now. That's right he's a to build twins finnigan and reigned that arrest you on. When i got him they had roped boroughs of the next firm sparking shock collar. And it six different parasites. It took forty two rounds and de worming to get them parasites free. They had diarrhea the first four months i had him. But now they're healthy and doing wonderfully super happy. They did get music from one apartment. But you know you make these sacrifices. You sound like a dog lover. Anyway i was. I had to get up from our reporting just recently a spin again. Those of you can see them all the wireless as During one of his regular ultrasounds they found that he had a flat on the size of a of a walnut and that explain why he needs to be every two hours. Which is why i can never work in an office unless they let me bring dot unbelievable. I didn't think that we would use the words de worming or ultrasound in this show. Okay so john we have to go back. We were talking about the depressing state of catholic church. But what are some of the articles you have at stream dot org remember folks one of yours. We have a number of assignments now. I've been doing this program long enough. That i have no problem giving my listeners assignments you have an assignment to print out. John's articles at stream dot org. You have to go to stream dot org. You got to print out the articles and you got to leave them around the house so that you can discuss it at dinner and so that the kids can get credit If they're being home schooled or whatever they should be reading this kind of stuff so what are some things got stream dot org john mirek. Well i've got a piece. That goes into what you and i have robert. Lopez debt uncomfortable talked about on election. Days ago can yale we say. Can its graduates. It was started by the fact that harburg there's a petition to revoke the diplomas of trump's supporters. Who went to offer and there was. Some people will be removed and led by robert lopez. Another great writer people should be reading. You can find him on on twitter under his big brown fat cat. Slide calls itself We talked about what. What could they possibly be thinking that they can vote. Someone's diploma because of his politics. What does this say about schools like harvard. Schools like yale. And what i what i said it it tells us is that they have become sure seminaries again. Ah puritanism but in the negative sets white. You're not going to holly modernise. They are not trying to create city of god. They were not persecuted religious refugees trying to find a little freedom. But they do have in common the witch trials and the informers and in fact. What we're what we're seeing arrests. Today is not liberal. Mostly it's not even markses. It's what what people call woke woke w.'ll e even suggest the great awakening it points to a religious moment. You use the phrase the great awoke inning. That's right and i actually. I don't know if anybody said this. But i would use the phrase. I would say that it's an eighth theocracy that's basically an eighth theocracy. That is that is what they're trying to do and it's really curious. These people on the one hand are absolutely dogmatic. Darnold's no there is no mind. There is no purpose in the universe. All biological life especially human life is the result of ruthless competition. The survival of the fittest. Now if you believe that you are politics that could be derived from that. Hitler derived his politics from in fact he was. The first politician really take darwin's seriously. He was darwin. What lenin was to marks the person who took the theoretical and made it rose relentlessly ambitious the practical. I'm not saying you want to be a nazi if abolitionist through but it is willing. Flint's you that right. Remember that darwin's net you francis alton invented eugenics that darwinism was used to justify jenex all across america. And in fact. If you look at the scopes monkey trial as they call it. The reason william jennings bryan came out against loosening charter schools. Because it was being given racist applications and used to justify sterilising black people in immigrants cow break. We gotta come right back to that point folks talking to john's miracle let there be no doubt. Big tech in the far left have joined forces to purge america of conservative views. But even if you keep your accounts you don't have to give big tech websites access to your data. That's why i choose to predict my online activity by using express. Vpn ever wondered how free to access social media companies. Make all their money by tracking your searches video history and everything you click on and then selling your valuable data when you use express. Vpn you anonymous is much of your online presence by hiding your ip address that makes your activity more difficult to trace and sell to advertisers. What's more express. Vpn and crips one hundred percent of your data to protect you from eavesdroppers on your network and the express. Vpn app couldn't be easier to use you just tap one button on your phone or computer and you're protected. Take back your online privacy with vpn. i trust at express. Vpn dot com slash metaxas. By visiting my link. You'll get an extra three months of express. Vpn service for free on a one year package again. That's expressed vpn dot com slash metaxas e. s. p. r. e. s. vpn dot com slash metaxas express dot com slash taxes to protect your data. Today folks. welcome back. I'm talking to john zamira ac the homework assignment. You gotta go to stream dot org. You got a printout. John's article every day. Monday through friday. And then you gotta leave it around the house for the kids to read. Okay john. let's go back. Okay saying that you just said that. The scopes monkey trauma listen. We all know that the story of galileo. The church is a false narrative. I'm writing about that in my new book and the monks scopes monkey. Trial is also false narratives right. We'll say oh it's people have faith versus science complete nonsense. But it's presented that way in inherit the wind the film starring propaganda. I know the the textbook that scouts got in trouble for using in that schoolroom explicitly said that the the evolution explains why they are higher superior human race in such a way rates and lower in syria rations such as the black race. That was in expert. Okay that is why william jennings bryan great populace and friend of the people and not anti-racists. That was why he sign-ons knee saw evolution. Being abused by people like margaret sanger and the klu klux klan and wealth stoddard and some of the people behind the museum of natural history in new york. He saw that that they were using evolution to justify racism and using racism to justify evolution and treating africans especially and also australian aborigines as the missing link. There's a great discovery institute coal schuman's oops and it shows you how darwinist scientists weaponize popular racism in order to make evolution more palatable. They exhibited a made me from african. Ultra in the in the mount monkey cages of the bronx zoo for more than a week at was lack christian ministers who got hamas and start urine with a stop to cristiani. Jenex were hitting head on Well while these people don't know the story. I mean what you just said just to go back to the scopes trial that the issue was that the textbook was asserting. That blacks are inferior to whites and so that as christians as americans. I would hope we think that that's false. And so the hero of the scopes trial is not the man that is held. Up as the hero and william jennings bryan and the arid. The wind was just a piece of elitist propaganda of the kind that you and i were subjected to in school. but today you're very perverse amount. The wool religion on the one hand insists we are a far cosmic of accidental mutations. No god no purpose. Nothing but racism is really wrong. You should listen to the civil rights movement which quoted the bible all the time except the bible's not true revolutionize but racism is wrong because we say so. And we'll get you fired if you don't agree. Basically is a big box of nihilism. The shiming red bull and a sticker martin luther king junior space but it's a black hole in space. Nothing all values into this is look. This is exactly correct. I i'm i'm saying there's more and more in my speeches or even in some of my sermons that i say. Racism is wrong. Because i know why it's wrong because the bible says that god loves each of us equally. That were made in his image. But if you don't believe that tell me why you say. Racism is wrong and honestly if you ask a a secular person why that is the first of all. They'll be offended that you even ask the question. Because what do you mean. How dare you even ask the question. I say well no no no. Don't get me wrong. I agree it is wrong. Except i think i know why it's wrong. Why do you say it's wrong. Well i think the reason they say the real reason they think. Racism is wrong because they associated with people with missing french cheese and confederate battle flags and pick rusty pickup trucks. It's entirely class snobbery. Racism is a patent prison. It's a low class prejudice. So yeah they have no actual reason and what you're saying Which of course is correct. Is that if you believe In darwinian evolution the idea that we got here by accident that there's no god then you know it's funny because not only is he can't can't you even at that point say that racism is wrong. You can't say that anything is wrong. There's no reason to have any values of good and evil are they're not actual things just social constructs from an evolutionary point of view. How's it adapted to be transgender or it's not it's not it's not adapted knees are deep deep fats. We ruthlessly culled from the her. But what we're what we have is the dog of the puritans and the nihilism of the marquis. What the article of this What's the title of the article. Can yell be saved and its graduates. Can yale be saved. Can its graduates available at stream dot org for free for free. You can print it out you rewrite. You don't need any There's a commercial plugging it for your book for a fish out of water. Oh that's right. I just read it. Yeah but what we the reason the left is so dogmatic right now and so intolerant is because it knows it's ideas are in cohere that actually it's eating inst- tale that the nihilism of darwinian ism and the moralism of anti racism are collision course like the trains and gomez addams living room in the added. Stanley always my favorite part of the show. John is really funny. You should say that. Because this is as i've been writing my new book Is atheism dead. I've come to this conclusion it's an. It's an extraordinary thing. They completely contradict themselves and each other. And so all you can do is scream louder to shut up people who are pointing out. We're gonna be right back folks. I'm talking john's miraculous. Stream dot org print out his articles. Share them with the world folks and talking to john's mirror john. Anybody watching by video. The puppies puppies beagles. But they're so sweet behind you It's worth looking at looking at our youtube channel. Eric metaxas show just to see the beagles. They're so beautiful. I wanna ask you about current events I haven't been paying much attention. I'm working on a book manuscript. Why did joe biden bomb syria. Can you help me. Sure i've got two interviews about this at stream dot order one call how not to stop the tortured and the next one. Why are the us just bomb iraq. Iran back billiton's in syria. And i interview a reasonable expert. You'll tiang was an activist for christian religious revival which is freedom especially for the persecuted christians. The region iraq syria the area and. What he said was the situation largely. Thanks to donald. Trump's presidency has changed in syria. The kurds and their christian allies in the self administration morgenstern serious sayings san essay. Look it up sayings. This is a third force in the region for religious reasons The kurdish-dominated region remember. It was the kurds. Us help defeated nights there. Women's thoughts are guys. Megan has to our guys. Alden airstrikes guys gave them advice. We have a few thousand special forces sitting in syria right. Now it's really or that. They stay there to keep the tourists out because the turks have been trying to take advantage of the chaos in syria basically syria is a secretary dictatorship run by the brutal bashir saw. But it's not as bad as what might take worse. I'll radical sunni jihadists people who bombed new york city. We were here. They were the ones leading the rebellion against the saw and to take over syria. So they could ethnically cleanse a million. Chris way what happened in iraq. When the genius neo concept will occupy iraq eternity. Democracy with a really meant was look racket trade into a theocracy and all the chaos misery. The happens. three-quarters kristen's The age of us. Three quarters of the christians in iraq killed or driven Some of them. I know are still living in like containers mike and broken refrigerators bids they can't even get into refugee hands syria. The christians are relatively untouched. They're they're they're not free to preach the gospel but they can have their churches. Al-qaeda and turkey wants to invade guelleh to churches and eliminate the christian there in the zv's eliminate every other religious minority and create a jihadist talent. Aaron state We had a choice. It looked like between usher. Assad secular dictator tortured people aligned with iran russia and turkey sending al-qaeda into taker the genius john mccain on television asserted. These are moderate rebels. We can trust turned out now that we're actually all. Thanks for much done. Jane what the us created a third force with the kurds. This stuff administration of northeastern syria in allows conversion to islam to christiane. That's illegal route. The whole middle east is huge in that neck of the woods. Yeah for people to be allowed to convert to christianity is is a stunning of new evangelical protestant kurdish churches opening up across northeastern syria. And the courage. Don't care they care about being kurds. They're muslims but they don't care enforcing islamic people against their wishes so the one place outside of israel but has arisen freedom is northeastern syria on the kurdish regime. We should continue supporting Looks like the administration to the target airstrike. Among militia associated with the raw iran is now trying to get controls here. She better rounded watson a conflict sunni and shiite two different power hungry regimes trying to get control of the broken country and seer. Us is being sort of an off shore balance where like trying to play these two courses against each other and try to create some kind of decency there. So i want to encourage people read up of the self administration or northeastern syria. Read up about the syrian democratic forces. People who destroyed isis on our behalf with american box donald trump managed that was donald trump's itchy now joe biden has inherited a much better situation than obama was the hunt. The courage control about a third of the country withers d'amato democratic lightner democratic elections only rights ruling and winning armaments total religious freedom christian coalition. The christians have guns in converged. Imagine that the sat down on second amendment there. There's a deep connection between religious freedom and governments not the subject of mine expert. God guns in the governor but in any case there's a guide guns in the government. Sounds like a great book. I wish i were a publisher. Ask you a question When you when you talk about the kurds whatever the another words is is bizarre giving them this freedom and those no no no they fought for you see. There were two groups of rebels against us up the current and the jihadists. The of the al qaeda people don't control what's his theory. Thank god the neo neo. Cons wanted to handle the whole country and only three republican candidates twenty sixteen. Donald trump ran. Fall ted cruz. And that's why those were my three top choices. All the other republicans were listening to john. Mccain saying all the way we've done the mara rebels in charge the moderate rebels bombed the world trade center and the pentagon and tried to blow up the capital. Those are the modern rebels. The neo cons. Basically the neo costs are have kind of infallibility negative salary. The wrong about everything. So whatever matched booed or william kristol says. Just do the opposite. And you'll be pretty sick. It's it's insane now. So but i still don't understand so so. The kurds have what it's they have. A north eastern one-third sear. Learning country is still. Are they still part of syria. If they're able to get away with a legal fiction the country series illegal fiction. It's essentially divided up between a turkish controlled zone jihadists The you and russian control section. Which is assad figurehead and the kurdish section. Where there's religious freedom it's in america's interest to make sure that third stay stay scree and yet satis in international negotiation. It's never but it's the bargaining table. We need to insist this one. Part of syrian actually leads. It's freedom of free elections no torture and doesn't throw homosexual hide. Always we want this part to have a voice all right. We're gonna be right back folks. I'm talking to john's mirror. You heard me. John's miracles is my guest. Don't go away Ooh stolen books and to john's mirek. John what i love about us. I could just ask you anything and usually you have a really good answer nick. Fuentes is a figure you've spoken about on this program before. I saw something about him on twitter. He's kind of gotten a twitter. War with rick grenell because rick grenell is openly gay and he thinks that gays should be welcomed into the to the gop. I totally agree with that. Obviously as a christian. I'm not really on board with a same sex marriage or anything like that. But nick days. Where's he coming from. Because i he doesn't he seems to me fundamentally wrong in some of the things he's saying this is kind of gross caricature of the truth so he takes a legitimate positions and bert Inflates them it is wrong to include gays in the gop is that means giving them their agenda if it means the gop says we're finding the same sex marriage and we're fine with the equality act and we're fine with the accrediting christian souls if they won't allow same sex couples to cohabitate. The lgbt machine is a multi billion dollar monstrosity that is persecuting christianity. That has hurt Unfortunately nick wednesdays does more than lert anti-semitism. he's made his crack jokes about the holocaust. He has weaponized weaponized resentment. The policy there is a real problem with the neoconservative movement and these tablets and there is a real problem with people. Do bring christian motors. Say oh well protected around us and then it turns out what you're doing is cutting taxes and helping big corporations bringing chief braver and the social bruce somehow always get kicked to the bottom of the stairs. We never get it. We vote republican faithfully. And we get jack squat. Niklas you squad redundant you could just say we get jacker. We get squat anyway. I knicks wednesdays. Kind of like the dumb man's patent kim okay. Pat buchanan is worded for president. I was in one thousand nine hundred sixty delegates pat buchanan's the republican national convention. You sort of been my writing zero and rolla terroristic the iq points and moral moral compass. And you get. It's so naturally right about a lot of things wrong. Messager the wrong guy. But he's wrong about some really really fundamental things. If a child is wrong but see the this is. This is the point. Is that the reason. I like rick. Grenell is because on all the important things we agree with each other is rick grenell. Pro-life i don't i believe i believe so but i guess here's here's my issue. My issue is that a four days if he cracks jokes at the holocaust or if he is another. It's one thing to be against certain policies against a that. Have to deal with the gay agenda. It's another thing to be against gay. People christians aren't against people and to me. He is against people from what i read in other words. There's a kind of a. I guess i'm just visit. City is an animosity in him. He's a nasty insa work. Okay and he discredits good causes. And it's a i i like michelle malkin. I like a louis goes arns congress. The dose of people who appeared at the america first packs of being Bitcoin tasted started. I liked the phrase america. I i don't like kind of bitter. I think cynical people who are willing to say cruel and destructive names. I don't like people look. He's the definition middle. The definition of divisive. i mean. that's why. I like. Rick grenell right. We may disagree on some things but but he gets it and there's certain people out there that you know if more than twenty percent of people agree with them. They think they've sold out. We're out of time folks. Don't forget to go to our website. Metaxas talk dot com. We need you to click on the banner for c. Sorry for food for the poor. Please folks go to metaxas talk dot com food for the poor. They need your help. John's merrick thank you thank you.

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Episode 306: A Shot in the Dark

The Editors

1:02:46 hr | 3 months ago

Episode 306: A Shot in the Dark

"On october second two thousand eighteen respected washington post journalist. Jamal kashogi entered the saudi consulate in istanbul turkey. He was never seen alive again at a time. When america's focused on its own domestic crises. There's one movie that reminds us. There are unbelievable and shocking events unfolding on a global scale the new documentary. The dissident boldly looks into the events and intrigue surrounding the murder. That shocked the world. Senator lindsey graham says. There's no smoking gun. There's a smoking saw the movie. Not only unearth new proof. It ultimately exposes his killer. Senator rand paul stacey. The evidence is overwhelming that the crown prince was involved playing out at the highest levels of power and wealth. The associated press calls dissident a real life thriller. Are you ready for the truth from the academy award winning director of ecus the dissident rated. Pg thirteen now playing at home. On demand biden bombs syria the vaccine effort slows little and the equality act posses the house of representatives. I am charles cook. Rich lowry is out today. I'm joined by michael brennan dotty and jim geraghty and today we will be the editors. This episode is brought to you by young america's foundation and by the dissident more on which later seems now to be a rite of passage for new presidents. come in and order a strike on syria. Joe biden did this last night claiming that he has the power to do so partly from the age of two thousand two and partly just. Because he's the president michael. I know you are concerned. About interventions abroad. Where you on this action. So this is a relatively minor a minor strike on groups that are alleged to Be going after. Us positions in iraq and You know their alleged to be. Iran backed And there is a my dander is an up as much as it was almost four years ago under trump because with trump it was a kind of attack on an airfield that was controlled by assad And in that case it felt like a diversion from the mission that congress had authorized in syria. And so i was worried about mission creep into you know finally openly Pushing for regime change in syria. Were this is not that. This is more of a kind of revenge strike. So you can say it's more limited in nature and you know that the president has A more established authority for authorizing this without congress. I still am just generally a little bit concern. Though that the biden administration in general is kind of stepping up the tempo and pace of all of the conflicts He's inherited Just in general like there's there's been a lot of arguments floated for abandoning the withdrawal dates in afghanistan which i think will predictably result in the taliban beginning to shoot at us again which they haven't done since our agreement there's more nato presence is going to be brought to bear in iraq signed. I'm just keeping an eye on it But this particular strike does not It doesn't freak me out at least not yet listeners. I'm sure will be astonished to hear this michael that i am more upset about this new to tell me make your case. I don't think it's illegal. I'm not wild about the idea that the president has all of these inherent article two powers. And i think that the assumptions that have been operative since around nine eleven about presidential power a wrong. I know i'm a little out of step with the nra. Aditorial board on that but he respective of the scope of article two. There is a new math under girding this action and it is true that if that gives us the power to be in iraq then it also gives us the power to retaliate. What bothers me about this. And perhaps we do agree is that it's now eighteen. Years will soon be nineteen years. Since the a. m. f. was passed it's never been repealed it probably never will be repealed. We reached a point. It seemed at which we weren't using it anymore. Now we're using it again. It is in a sense and enabling. Act a broad enabling act for american action abroad. When was the last time it was debated. When was the last time it was the subject of a town hall. When was the last time it was mentioned in an election. Have we just decided as a country that this is now part of the firmament that we have an open ended authorization for the use of military force in that area. My worry hair is that the argument will eventually become hopelessly circular. We had to do this because we were being shot at okay and we have to be there. Because we're being shot at and that we will never as the result have a a meaningful evaluation of our position in the world and a presence there. I don't think joe biden has done anything illegal. I didn't think he's done anything terrible. I am not as upset about this one. So i was trump's either The thing that mostly bothered me about trump other than that. I didn't think that was a justification for was that the administration said that it did not represent an act of war which i thought was preposterous. Is we had sent another country sent fifty five missiles into say new york harbor and pretty sure we would see it differently. But i just look at this almost two decades in and i. I wonder when we're going to reevaluate this as a country because it is much more important than many of the things we end up talking about. Jim where are you on this. So i guess compared to you guys. I am the relative hawk of this discussion. I can summarize my philosophy on most of these issues though getting into the nitty gritty. Pretty simple i love dead. Terrorists like every morning should begin with the healthy breakfast. A brisk walk and bombing an ice. It's just part of your morning ritual every restaurants But i had to look up. I did see the news that We had bombed sites in syria last night. And it's a knew. This was in response to something. But i had to go look was this was not a particularly a high profile story it was back beverly sixteen it involved. Three rockets fired at a. Us base in killed one contractor injured one us through and injured eight other us contractors and that is the instigating event that prompted the retaliatory strike against. I guess what is believed to be iranian aligned. Militias there so. I'm fine with it but i do think you're correct. This was the reason we are in. The situation is because congress doesn't really want to take that second look at the authorization of use of military force because doing so would require them to take responsibility one way or the other they could look at this and say hey you know what we have decided that having these troops and i have this this minute quibble with michael responded to at one of his species earlier this year and then when he was not around madeleine albright. I couldn't even i couldn't even begin to to Objects because he did such a good job about it and she had just you know. It was like reheated. Porridge of born policy conventional wisdom that he was tearing apart a few weeks ago but generally if we're gonna have troops someplace then we know in the congress by having to take a stance on the authorization of use military force has to say one thing or the other they have to say either. Yes even if we have casualties. Those casualties are worth it. Because the us interest in this place is that import bolt things say is going to be flag-draped coffins coming back sunday. And you're to live with that. You're gonna have to accept that and your constituents may not be happy with maybe some of your constituents could be among those people coming back. It's like great thoughts or you should say no. We don't think are interesting work that we should pull out of this place and we should accept the consequences of pulling out of this place which oh by the way could also be very bad for. Us interest most members of congress. I think of long since forgotten a sense of like part of your job. This is what we send you to washington to do. Is to make these walls. If you want to do something easy stay on you know the sensation board or something like that actually. It's a tough job to. If you just want to be popular you know go. Try to be a pundit on cable news or something like that. That's those easy. Call right. Neto being in india so at some point you have to say yes. Those troops should be there or no those troops. Shouldn't it's very clear. Probably since about the moment the iraq war went bat that most members of congress were in this uncomfortable nether region where they didn't really want it to either one of those directions. Yes it's worth it. No it's not and they want to be in this kind of tangential sorta kinda so. Now we're in the situation. Where we're i great. My teeth grind. When i hear somebody using the term forever wars and stuff like that we currently have. At least last. I saw two thousand five hundred troops in iraq. Two thousand five hundred troops in afghanistan in nine hundred troops in syria. It's pretty minimal. it's not white full withdrawal. But that's that's about as small as a you know force. We could reasonably expect to have their short of volume entirely in most of us. Think that bad things flow outta so I don't really mind it. I do think it's very interesting. This is you know this was a bottom of page. A one story a lot of places. This was not setting twitter afire. And i think just kind of reminded me of fantastic study things done by the folks over at the cato cato institute who Looked at how the the thinking of the anti war movement changed and shockingly guys democratic interest in the anti war movement change right around january twentieth. Two thousand nine as soon as bush left office. The iraq war stopped being a problem to them and i think this kind of reflects partisanship in foreign policy is a big reason why we don't really have hurt. Us foreign policy in many of these lists so that there is a great deal of partisanship and there is a great deal of hypocrisy. But i think some of the criticisms that i've seen of the hypocrisy don't quite land in that yes. It is true that they was far more attention. Paid to what trump did although partly. That's because what he was responding to was egregious but it's also the case the when trump bombs a sad. He was probably more popular in the press than any other point in his presidency. And i remember van. Jones said this is the moment he became president and his approval rating went up and he seemed responsible to too many all of a sudden. So mike eleven ask you. Jim said that it doesn't really matter so much. Because there are many people that the term forevermore misleading two and a half thousand troops that do you agree with that no You know my fear. Of course right is a couple of things like if you'd have twenty five hundred troops in in around kabul and you can protect kabul sort of but in a sense. You're kind of babysitting it. While the taliban controls the rest of afghanistan i how much are you cheating there. I i don't know and you always worry about If i if i were joe biden i would always be haunted by the battle of mogadishu right in nineteen ninety-three where you know The american public had not been thinking about troops in somalia until there was footage of them being dragged through the streets. And and that would that is what would would would make me fear kind of hanging around in places that we have long since we've long since given up right the idea that we're gonna like Change afghanistan four into like middlebury connecticut. And that like every two or four years. We're going to get those purple thumb pictures back like that that dreams been given uk. I don't know i i. If if people want to have a debate and say listen bagram air force base freaks out the russians. It freaks out the chinese. And that's why we want wanna stay there. Okay let's have that debate that that could be more productive In syria again. I don't know what special forces can accomplish there And in iraq. I mean you know. It's kind of one mess after the other. I mean it's sort of like when you look at iraq and iran. You say oh like. Don't you wish we could have a secularist. You know vaguely pan. Arab suny non fanatic Governing this country you know like someone like saddam hussein like. Wouldn't that be better than the current thing where arrack is like a cat's paw of iran. In when it's not it's where it's not. It's run by the headers i you know anyway. I'm just. I'm skeptical. And i would worry about those kind of mogadishu moments that can Seriously threatened the presidency. And obviously seriously threaten our troops. Who who you know if there are casualties and there haven't been in afghanistan for a while You know i i I wanna know that they're dying for a good reason. Well my my proposal here. Maybe this sits off way between you too. Because it's process. Oriented is a constitutional amendment that forces congress to reconsider any declaration authorisation of wool within five years. And then we can have a debate and decide. Is it still worth it. Which brings me to the exit question. Which is in ten years time so any thirty years since the aircraft was i passed. Will we still be in iraq skirmishing with syria. Michael yes owner. No we won't be there in ten years All of our troops will be in texas and in mexico handling the crisis in our own hemisphere. That i expect by that time. I thought you were going to say. They'll be removing. Mr potato head dolls from the simple. They'll be bombing. Moderate rebels like ted cruz. I i don't know we'll see. I don't think we'll be there in ten years. Jim guarantee in ten years time where we still be that depends on what you mean by. We expect ten years. It'll be something not that different from the current status quo which is a heavier than the normal. Us presence compared for a country. That's you know not a nato ally or something like that but not one in which. There are significant casualties or Hostile incidents or things like that but in the in the heavily-armed embassy happens to have an airbase next to it. The will sometimes drop bombs in syria every now and then you know just to say hello. I think we will still be there. I think this will be eternal. Alas all right off i sponsor. Today is young america's foundation. You know left his teachers and administrators Indoctrinating the next generation. That's why the conservative student in your life needs young. America's foundation students aged thirteen and older can apply for individual membership program and connect with like minded students learn from leaders of the conservative movement gained skills and materials to advance their ideas and more. You can apply today at. Www dot y. af dot org that's www dot af dot org and receive a free membership attack again. That's w. W w why. A f- dot org jim you Griping in the morning jolt for change. But it's on a topic you have followed very very closely now for year. Unfortunately it's been the main news story in america and around the world and you argued in the jolt today. That the vaccine rollout is slowing. Yeah so i guess. I should begin by cheery stuff look we know. I think the biden white house had an event celebrating fifty million vaccines administered yesterday. There were you know this is the way more than Had been done under the early weeks of the rollout under the trump presidency more significantly You know the the one hundred million doses and hundred days is going to be easily met the hundred and fifty million doses in one hundred days. Now looks somewhat plausible. But every morning. I go out and i check the Very nifty site that Bloomberg has done put organizing all the information and the new york times has done the same and they they've now lineup completely every morning. I think they're getting their information from the same place. The centers us centers for disease control prevention and a couple of things check how what percentage of doses that have been distributed taken from pfizer and maderas plants and shipped off to the states. And then how many of them have been administered meeting actually put into people's arms and we're making some realized progress it was you know that percentage of administered has creeping up creeping up. And on monday. It was almost eighty four percent good. That's we want a few doses sitting around on shelves or somewhere in transit or god forbid getting lost and sitting somewhere in them was picturing a warehouse like the ark of the covenant is stored at the end of raiders the lost ark and day by day this week it has gotten worse and worse as of this morning we're down to seventy four percent of those doses being administered. And the monday we'd have a twelve point. Two million doses. Were just sitting around waiting to be used. that's now up to twenty three point three million doses so in five days eleven million doses come from the manufacturers to the states and the states are just not getting them out there into people's arms. Now you could say oh well jim. This is bad weather and yes to ago about ten days ago. We had really bad weather. The deep freeze also ted cruz and his vacation and all that stuff. And okay yeah. That's that's eight but we're we're now nine days past that there could be some You know factor and kind of domino effects down the line of the sort of thing but you pfizer. Moderna seemed to be able to get the doses to the states with with no real problems these days delivering like four million five million doses a day some days so the question is what is the problem in getting them into people's arms a couple of weeks ago. The biden administration said to a bunch of states. We're going to help you distribute them. We're gonna federally. Funded federally supported Administration sights will provide the tents. We'll provide the staff can use national guard. We're gonna it's gonna be terrific. The only thing that these sites would not come with is additional doses of the vaccine a bunch of governors of states. Like well look. That's not really we have plenty of people. we have plenty of. Hospitals have plenty of pharmacies. We have plenty of medical centers. All kinds of people can can help us get vaccines to arms. What we need are more vaccines. And they're now. The question is okay states. You know what. What's the hold up now because if you said you didn't want the by the are doing of these in a bunch of states and if you happen to be doing them at these stadiums and you can get the terrific fine yesterday was struck. Me as a very illustrative example Vice president kamla harris. Who i think is probably the biggest. Walking liability of the biden administration goes to a pharmacy in washington d. c. to do a photo op and to encourage people to use the vaccines to assure people that had safe because she wanted to dispel the notion that it was not safe. That may have taken root say last fall. When kamala harris was telling people she wouldn't take the vaccine if trump approved it. And that's a separate issue but anyway she's at this pharmacy. Doing this event telling people go through the federal pharmacy program. The website that the district of columbia uses to register people through this pharmacy program crashed and then once it got re working again. It started sending people aronie messages telling the people they were not eligible to get doses even though the district change applications and then once people finally could get through and they'd fix that era. All the appointments were quickly booked. I think we have a real problem in everywhere i look. I hear people talking about vaccine hesitancy which strikes me as weird because there are a whole bunch of people who really want to get the vaccine and they still can't get it either. They're not eligible because they're not young enough or they're considered to healthy enough or they are qualified but they still are having a hell of a time getting an appointment. I think a lot of people really want this to be a vaccine hesitancy problem and the sort of thing that can be fixed some public service announcements and advertising and stuff like that. That's not the problem. The problem is logistics. The problem is we got manufacturers. Who are turning this stuff out and be doing a good job of getting it to the states and the states or maybe it's the counties or maybe it's the localities somebody in this. It's going into iraq a black box vaccines are coming in. Not nearly as much vaccines are going out and the question is why nobody seems to be able to answer this question very well and nobody seems to be able to explain why as of this morning nineteen states and the district columbia still. Haven't you used a quarter of their supply. What what's the holdup here. What is the delay. what do you need. it's deeply frustrating. It's gotten better yes. I'm glad to hear it. More people i know are getting it. I'm glad to hear it but we're not where we need to be an. Oh by the way considering how we're supposed to be in a race against time against these new variants you'd like to see this kind of you know real intensity to this effort. I suspect we're not seeing nearly as much scrutiny of this because it might give people the sense that oh wait a minute. Maybe this isn't as easy as biden. Made it sound back when he was on the campaign trail. Michael you know what i it's. It is interesting agree with jim's diagnosis. That this is a logistics problem like. I'm not even sure we're ever going to get to the vaccine hesitancy problem. In this pandemic rightly i think Given how effective these vaccines are. I think once you get them into willing arms we may be long since passed it mattering to get into the remainder I hope that remains true. Even with new variants There's no political pattern to the states. That are doing the best it distributing vaccines connecticut is doing really well west. Virginia's doing really well. The dakotas are doing pretty well. Getting their supply in You know maybe there's a little pattern. Dc new york. There's some you know these are places that have been a little bit more punctilious about the social justice engineering of who gets what when But yeah i. It's it's not a thing i do want to say though as as much as i'd like the united states to be even faster. The united kingdom is kind of a after israel. I think the uk's at like twenty seven percent of our population has received at least one of the doses and is well on the way to both doses They've done a fantastic job And compared to france where it's like less than six percent or neighboring ireland which is struggling to get over the five percent hump We're doing considerably better than europe excluding the united kingdom. But we should be doing even better still and i hope these can be ironed out and i hope the like local press holds. These governments to account It feels like the governor's offices aren't really in the conversation about this. A where our media is still kind of treating this as a biden story and not necessarily You know a greg. Abbott story in texas my. If i might narrow in on something you you said the the hypocrisy of kamala harris. Jim alluded to is profound in a sense. She is akin to ted cruz. Ted cruz said for weeks. The election was stolen stolen or questions. I'm not satisfied. I need to stop the certification. We need an investigation and then went. Asked why he had said that he said look. You've got to understand. Millions of people have doubts back. Because you don't them to and harris has paid the same game she and many others. If trump is in charge of this vaccine it will be corrupt. And i think some had an image of him creating it himself in the white house bathroom and now we are seeing substantial resistance especially among minorities. The new york times headline minorities oddest hit. That is true here now. You said you're not necessarily i. You are seen okay. So you are seeing that in places like washington dc where there are four and a little report speaking out that you know. People are trying to get majority african american wards to have higher take-up before they released more appointments to Whiter wards in washington d. c. And they're having a lot of trouble That can be solved by liberalizing who can get who's eligible to get a vaccine appointment. Yeah but the the question. I was going to ask though was this. You said you wanted to worried about about the reluctant. The the argument in favor of not worrying about the reluctant as far as i understand it relies upon those who are reluctant being spread out because a while if enough people get it doesn't matter at the margins of every community there are people who say now. Do you know jim perhaps. Do either of you know what happens if the people who are not interested in getting it all in one place for example there are already hot. Spots in the united states of anti vaccine sentiment one of them is marin county san francisco some of the newspaper reports in florida. I've read if suggested that minority communities especially seemed to be resistant. Are we going to see horror stories where everyone else is. Okay and people in these communities are affected at a high rate or is that not how it works it could well shake out that way if you have a particular community or neighborhood where very very few people are getting vaccinated You hear people saying that. This virus is hitting minority communities worse than some of this is because it builds upon pre existing health issues. You've had untreated undiagnosed diabetes high blood pressure obesity. Smoking lung issues. You know all that kind of stuff is going to increase the likelihood of serious Health consequences of getting infected with covid. Nineteen i mean what. What are the things that are imagined. There's like a couple of factors that at work in this vaccine skepticism. Look if you're african american you've heard about the ski experiments and you probably look at the highway from the government. We have a neat vaccine. We'd like to inject in you trust us. It's understandable they may look at that a little bit differently than certain other communities that said i think just about every government official and force on earth. And you know. They're trying to recruit celebrities to do this sort of like you know if if you don't see why you should get the vaccine by now you either done you either way too much and you've now followed uncle. Benny's website linked to y. The back of the virus is nothing to worry about. The vaccine is gonna kill you. You know that kind of kooky conspiracy theories type stuff. I can understand people being wary about a new vaccine that has been developed so quickly i get it you know And trump being who he was and being very divisive personality and a guy who was particularly trusted in certain minority communities yet. It's not surprising that people weren't So certain that the trump seal of approval but even back when comma harris's making her. Oh i wouldn't trust it. Trump said it. It's not like he was going to be selling it at his golf courses of nearly. Oh trump the vaccine. Don't give them any ideas jim. It's the very best. It's the vaccine. This was always going to be approved by the food and drug administration national institutes of health and the entire show and big pharmaceuticals. I guess there are people if you've been hearing. Big pharmaceutical. Companies are evil for the past couple of decades. And you you picture this. Hollywood cackling corporate villain blah quick. We a frame. Dr kimble to protect our drug profits. That kinda you know mentality. I guess like well visor. Madeira must they must be up to something sinister by creating specs that will save our lives and prevent us from this virus. That is killing people. You know. I mean at some point. Just look at the look at the world around you. Yeah you're people aren't key and by the way they did several trials of this like thousands of people. Nobody's hearing about them growing third hand because of the vaccine. Most people get a sore arm. People get chills fevers of people get bad reactions to it. But nobody's nobody's had terrible reaction. The ones who are generally they're allergic to a vaccine ingredient. That's the one people. I think we have almost no public discussion of people like okay. We've got some people who would like to get vaccinated but because of pre existing health conditions because of factors. They are allergic to something. That's in the vaccine and they can't get it. So what do we do to protect these people because otherwise people are just sitting around waiting for herd immunity. Well we're going to get to hurt immunity with the vaccines and with the spread of the disease. I mean i think we're we're well on the way possibly by the late spring. I think there's more to be said for vaccine resistance and some of it is the cacophony of messaging right like there's been a lot of public messaging where you you could feel like you're an informed person and you've heard from health authorities even dr fauci this vaccine after you get it. You've still got to wear masks. Maybe you've got to wear two masks You can't socialize yet. Even if you've got the vaccine you can't do a bunch of stuff like goed to indoor dining or go to certain events or public events and you might hear that and say okay so the vaccine is not going to get me to normal life. It's still going to be risky. There are no long term studies on this. Because it's an emergency use only vaccine. And i'm in a category of people middle aged not have diabetes or other co morbidity. He's ads not that anxious to get this maxine. Now right like i think are ton of people that are in that category where they think you know. Okay if i was seventy years old. Yeah i'd get this. Because obviously the danger of covid outweighs the danger of the vaccine. But you know infertile. Maybe i'm going to have a baby this year. They haven't done anything on pregnant women You know i'm just gonna hesitate because the benefits are not that great. According to dr fauci. It's not gonna change my daily life and i think there tons of reasons. People are going to be a little a little bit hesitant. I don't think in the end it's going to matter that much At least i hope. So i mean like i said this is subject to variance not becoming far more deadly or transmissible but anyway i don't think the public health messaging has been particularly great at encouraging people and for now that might be okay because supply is limited right so you still want to prioritize the elderly. You don't want this. Like giant rush of healthy forty year olds trying to push their way to the front of the line that won't be the most effective at saving lives. But you know. I see people just saying like listen. Ninety nine percent people survive this. You know it's an emergency use only authorization. It's probably fine. But maybe i'm not super anxious to get it or at least not to get ahead of my My in laws and my grandparents. Well this brings us to the exit question. Which is michael. I by may first. Anyone who wants to be able to get the vaccine will be able to. And they'll be scouring the land looking for people to stick with needles close to anyone. I mean it'll still be close to anyone. Although i wouldn't advise children under twelve yet because those studies aren't aren't done yet but close to anyone should be able to get it by late spring. I think gem may i anyone can get it. Think i'd be safer saying june. I i don't think. I think it'll be a little after that. Not too much long. After long. After that though i think by maitha pretty much anyone's going to be able to get optimism for once for me a second sponsor. Today is the dissident on october second two thousand eighteen respected washington post journalist. Jamal khashoggi entered the saudi consulate in turkey. He was never seen alive again at the time. When america's focused on its own domestic crises. There's one movie that reminds us there. Unbelievable and shocking events unfolding on a global scale the new documentary that dissident bold the looks into the events and intrigue surrounding the murder. That shocked the world. Senator lindsey graham says. That's not a smoking gun. There's a smoking. Saw the movie and alternative. On earth new proof it ultimately exposes his killers. Senator rand paul states. The evidence is overwhelming that the crown prince was involved playing out at the highest levels of power and wealth. The associated press cools. The dissident a real life thriller. Are you ready for the truth from the academy award winning director of ecus the dissident rated. Pg thirteen now playing at home on demand. Please visit the dissident dot com for more information. Well the house of representatives run by a democratic majority albeit a slim one past the equality act. It is now headed to the senate and it's probably not going to pass. Although you never quite know. Mitt romney came out against it. It's advocates hope to secure his vote. They're not going to get it. It doesn't contain enough religious freedom protections and susan collins of maine who had sponsored it. Last time has declined to do so this time while a number of other republican scientists have said. They haven't been contacted about it. A tool michael. What's your view on the quality. Act so equality. Act is Seriously dangerous piece of legislation Precisely because it expands. Kind of hijacks the civil rights act Four the transgender revolution and also piggyback some demands of same sex couples for more access to Businesses of sites or even a potentially like sites owned by churches Four as public accommodations It's we've editorialized against a national review. John mccormack had a great piece. Why the equality act is more extreme than the bostock decision Precisely because it kind of these new fields of litigation And and kind of sets the terms in a way that you know these flare ups like over memories pizza or over her masterpiece cake shop It kind of these terms in a way that would cause those christian dissenters to lose It up accommodation issues. That would be huge for evangelical colleges or catholic colleges that have dorm policies that conform to the idea that young men are young men and young women are young women and And that you can actually know these facts about the world And that no assertion changes them So it's it's really serious. I mean this is This would encode this kind of fluid understanding of gender performance throughout civil rights law throughout title seven An open up just a ton of litigation opportunities and hazards for christians and or anyone who descends from a transgender ideology. Which by the way itself is kind of a fluid ideology. So i i hope it's defeated it. It worries me that an entire political party. The democrats are basically committed to They're committed to writing. Two plus two equals five into the heart of civil rights law. I mean that's that's how i see it This is a big lie and consenting to it is consenting to big brother compelling you to tell lies and to act. In a way that comports with those lies so i i hope it's not just defeated. I hope it's kind of exposed Because it's not even if it's not passed by the senate this time This is a major legal effort. And it's going to inform future supreme court litigation So they can't pass it through the legislature. They'll try to go through the judiciary just before we go to you. Jim michael. You're right to say it's the entire democratic party. I think every single democrats in the house voted for this. Are there any democrats in the senate who are opposed to it I think joe manchin is going to oppose it I don't know about kristen. Cinema I think she's for it. I haven't looked into that But as you said it had previously it had in a previous form it had support from susan collins so It looked like at one point. There was a threat of a handful of republicans. Social moderates who wanted to signal that they weren't anti gay could get on board with this That seems to be going away. But again i think conservatives have to be really militant about this Because even you know even a guy like mike pence when he was a governor he could be a gang rushed on religious liberty issues if an executive of sufficient stature. And power like tim. Cook at apple. published an op. Ed and so i think conservatives have long history of folding or not fighting on these issues And know so. Everyone has to kind of put their shoulder to the wheel jim. It's certainly interesting that this has gained republican opposition in the senate in as michael points out the last one did not the press has in in some quarters said well look you say this. Who'd republicans are even the so called moderate so extreme. I look at this a little bit differently in the neuro. Portman is in favor of gay marriage. Lisa murkowski's in favor of gay marriage as a rule they are not bomb throws especially on this topic and yet both of them have said no. I'm not on board with this legislation. Does that tell us something about the law or are we looking at a classic split country problem. Okay so you. This question is along the lines. I was kinda thinking. I gotta admit i had paid very little attention to this john. Mccormick's articles are a fantastic way to get up to speed on this real quick three house. Republicans voted to pass this this week. fitzpatrick cat go and read. Not exactly the most. None of those guys really surprising to support it so you could say democrats now say the fig leaf of saying. We have bipartisan support. But this was pretty much a party. Line vote i think the democrats the fact that susan collins support it last time and is not supporting at this time. That should be a red flag. That should make you concern like it's not just because we live in an era in which susan collins and joe manchin effectively. Both have thrones at effectively rule. What gets done in washington for at least the next two years. Susan collins is not unreasonable. She is not a bomb thrower. And as you said and if you can't get her on board well then it probably is a sign. There's something wrong with the bill and you better figure out some way to tweak. It adjusted or make some exception for it and and mccormack attention to the economist magazine by no stretch of the imagination. Hey a right wing or socially conservative mag- magazine. They look. this is going to. You're going to end up having forcing girls and women's sports teams to compete with and against male athletes who identify as female why we want congress setting this policy for every high school in middle school in america strikes me as an unbelievable asinine idea just simple federalism or is this a role for the federal government strikes me as a clear argument of like this is a bad idea but i also think we are very much an era in which we talked earlier about how members of congress didn't wanna take action didn't want to Take responsibility for voting one way or the other on a new authorization for the use of military force. We're very much in the era of Stunt lead politic politicking and. I'm thinking in particular of this ongoing fight between marjorie taylor green and democratic congresswoman. Maria newman newman hangs transgender. They have their offices across the hall from each other in one of the house office buildings. So newman puts a transgender flag. Bide out and then Green puts out her sign. That says there are two genders male and female trust the science and this is like do extent you can find coverage of the equality. This is what you're getting coverage of right This is that same trump vacuum in the media. Where there this need. We need controversy. Please give us somebody in a republican doing something that we can paint as being extreme and divisive and hateful and stuff much less discussion of what the law would actually do. You know as we've seen with everything from the patriot act to every other forced acronym act. That has come down the pike and congress. Well it's the quality act you're not against equality now are you. Could you could call it. Like the teenage boys. Beating up women Teenage girls act or the men moving into women's shelters act or i mean I i'm kind of blown away. I think maybe there's a kind of learned. Helplessness are on the among social conservatives About opposing these sorts of things in blunt terms But we that. I think that's what we have to do. I mean we don't just you know it's not a matter of just Holding up the votes and defeating it legislatively. I think we really should also take the opportunity to expose. What's in the bill and talk about what what it means practically for girls and women To pass something like this which would as our own metal gerns is going to point it out It it would turn stuff like title nine access for girls on its head and you know you have to explain this. This doesn't involve like a biological boise's getting in girls wrestling tournaments. Getting in girls bathrooms getting in girls in women's shelters and i don't know how that advances equality i think what interests me the most about this the details of the bill a- me but what interested me the most about it politically. It's the tone. Jim you point out that it's called the equality act so you already on a backfoot opposing it. But the way in which the democratic party talks about this and in congress in general would be more appropriate if they had the power they had in early. Two thousand nine. They did not do that well. The election they did okay. I'm not pulling an ezra klein hair. They won. They won the house. They won the presidency and they won the senate because the vice president breaks the time. That's fine but they are within. What is it now. Nine votes in the house fewer. It's tied senate and they just about won the presidency but they talk as if the opposition to their agenda is somehow outrageous illegitimate. All americans are a lining up to sign onto the equality act and all of its implications and. I just don't think that's true. I think that the objections that have been raised by the mitt. Romney's and lisa mccaskey's and susan collins is the world pretty broadly shed. I think the fact that this isn't going to become law because of the filibuster is a good thing and an instructive thing. Maybe not for that matter. Even because of the filibuster given that. Joe manchin seems to be squishy on it. This is the first time that we have had a real fight in in the biden. Yes at the near a tendon. Nomination didn't really register outside of people like us. This bell foco vid relief badly. Described is probably going to pass but the outside the bird rule elements are going to be gone. This is the first fight and just listening to democratic senators and columnists talk about it. You would think that they had won. Sixty senate seats and had a massive eighty vote majority in the house and had won a landslide in the electoral college. And they didn't it just strikes me that obviously this sort of thing is going to pass is a massive massive change this is this is a law that would have enormous implications for people of conscience and that is already in many senses the law because of the bostock decision which i think was was wrongly decided jump in and say there's a rule in politics. You want to do your most controversial stuff as early and a two year term as possible. You want a new your stop as far away from election day as you possibly can. It says something about democrats they wanna get this done as quickly boom right out of the gate. Let's get it done. Let's let's turn into law and hopefully by november twenty two Voters will have forgotten about this or gotten used to it. They won't be up in arms about that because you know other events will have intervened the right sponsor republicans. We don't. this isn't the right time. Let's discuss this october twenty. Let's do this right before election day. And see if all you all those purple district and red state democrats. Let's see if all you guys. There's a ben as you are now. And if they're not maybe. This isn't such a terrific idea. Maybe this isn't the popular idea. You guys have convinced it's yourselves that it is. I think the fact that this is rolling out of the gate. This early probably says something. About what democrats deep down knowing. This is not as popular as they think. It is particularly if people look past the first two words equality act absolutely well. The exit question for this one is somewhat obvious. Michael brennan darty will the equality act become law before the twenty. Twenty two midterms. Yes no jim are. You agree you won't get There'll be a filibuster you will get nearly enough votes. it'll come. Plus they're democrats will convince themselves. Oh good now. We've got the issue run on the next election that they will run on it. That much This makes it unanimous donnie. Do i think it went pass. I think that they will not be fifty votes for it in this. Us senate and now it's time for light items. Michael you've been up to So the past year. Of course we've all been kind of cooped up indoors Probably a little bit more sensitive to the idea of threats of a natural during a pandemic in drink some listeners. I've been getting into like some self defense stuff and kind of exploring second amendment stuff Or second amendment options for personal security. Let's call it that I wanna recommend a youtube channel called hard to hurt Threatened by this guy who goes by icy mike. He's kind of a self defense instructor and it's a really hilarious channel with a lot of realistic advice about what actually happens on a day when someone wants to hurt you and what you can reasonably do. And it's very fun to watch him. Bust up stupid Self defense items. That are never going to work and never be deployed usefully And even to watch him test out ones that are pretty effective but which you know. He may not recommend for legal reasons So yeah check out hard to hurt. It's pretty entertaining channel. Even if you're not a concerned about someone assaulting you jim so for christmas my wife got me a subscription to food and wine magazine. It's no national review but probably few magazines out there do a wonderful job of making it look absolutely mouth-watering really gorgeous in the picture and then when you try to make the rest of yourself it doesn't quite look exactly the same but anyway this past. He's a couple of weeks ago. Chinese new year on a friday night. I said you know what we're not having our usual food tonight. I'm going to try to make chinese food. And i could just see the fear and trepidation in the of my wife and my sons as i got out the shrimp got up. The chicken started chopping it up. Got all the ingredients and lo and behold no and get salmonella not only going to get food poisoning. It turned out pretty well. I'm i'm not an extensive cook like an follow recipe. Pretty well and a good time was had by all. And i think it was just the the the stark statements of. I didn't think this was gonna taste. This really meant a lot to me at the end of the congratulations. I i can cook a few things. But for some reason i just have a real block with eggs i just. I com do eggs while the i want tried to make an omelet and it ended up a strange sort of hybrid between scrambled eggs in free totta. I've never lived it down. I should probably try again but instead of doing that. I have been playing snakes and ladders with my two little boys. The local walgreens has this game on sale. Right as you get to the count of six dollars. And because i have snakes on it was obviously of great interest and they both said oh we need. We need that game. What is it. What is it and i guess. It's a pretty good game. We've now played eight nine games. I haven't one and not unlike with battleship because there is cheating going on. I just apparently very very unlucky. I hit snakes over and over again. Which hopefully living in florida. It's not an omen are michael. We're now we're to move onto editor's picks and you are going to regale us with your choice of the week or I like this piece by daniel petrous. He's a fellow defense priorities. And if you're wondering. I'm going soft on Militarism checkup this piece by daniel called getting out of out is biden's best syria policy Daniel makes a strong argument that Us troops in syria. Don't have a very well defined mission and that the regional stakeholders have Interests that will impel them toward dealing with the problems in serious hinterlands much more so than we do And while admitting pretty candidly that syria is likely to be a mess for a generation. I think it's I think it's exactly what realism should be. Which is realistic jim. What's your editors pick. So michael and i don't get to line up on the same show very often anymore because of the pandemic restrictions on how we work so i really liked his piece. Crystallized left Which went up Early this morning Folks may have seen good old. Bill william kristol formerly publisher of the weekly standard writing basically making the argument to anti-trumps republicans republicans who were trump skeptical and basically say. Hey you know. Maybe we should work with joe biden. Maybe joe biden is the guy and there was a line in that piece where he said you know. He basically contended that chuck schumer and nancy. Pelosi were part of the quote unquote biden wing of the democratic party. Now the only response that i could muster was. Have you ever seen that picture of jackie chan throwing his hands up in frustration. And getting this look on his face that scream. Why would you say that. Why would you do that. But michael really diagnosis and ceo could the The trump republican soccer mom or security mom types is there this group of formerly republican voters. Who could not just vote for the democratic party when trump on the ballot but really become full-fledged. Is it red dog. Democrats or something. And michael identifies. I think that the real sticking point which is that at this point the left that it exists. I can't really say no to the hard left progressive left. They've taken over the new york times they've taken over all these other big institutions and they are afraid of them. They are afraid of how this group that you know. We'll be mean to them on twitter and thus they cannot possibly ever say to the progressive left. We're seeing it already at work in the biden administration. So i think michael nails. I i think that's that's the issue there There's a lot to complain about. In the deeply trump republican party in the likes of the cunanan republicans and all that kind of stuff but man. Oh man it's not like the democratic party has cornered the market on sanity on sanity and and good ideas and sensible policies that if anything. I think they've responded with even more lunacy of their own so anyway good job michael. That's the long. That's that's the thing thank you. My pick is really a series of pigs. I just wanted to praise. Robert verbruggen can do things like count and apis about economics. And he's doing that at the moment all the time because there is a debate over this absolutely enormous bill and what can be allowed in it. What kant what effect the bill will have on unemployment and so on when it comes to this sort of stuff. Robert is an mvp. He's he's a lot of polemicist. He's an analyst. And i'd my him for it. I'm with that that saw show thank you to jim. Guarantee and michael brendan doughty. I've been charles cook rich. Larry will return soon. This has been produced by. Sarah should he. We are the editors and we will see you next time

syria iraq ted cruz biden administration congress afghanistan joe biden biden saudi consulate Senator lindsey graham michael jim america Jamal kashogi Senator rand paul stacey charles cook michael brennan susan collins iran mogadishu
Bernies Fight Against Trump, the GOP, the Democratic Establishment, and Corporate Media

Intercepted with Jeremy Scahill

1:01:13 hr | 1 year ago

Bernies Fight Against Trump, the GOP, the Democratic Establishment, and Corporate Media

"Pretty STANDARD LEADS THE DEMOCRATIC FIELD. The national polls. He's the front runner. You're making a lot of people nervous. Is that a bad thing free. Sanders has been arguing that everyone can have health care education and a decent paying job. Let's use the federal government to protect. The interests of working. Families is in that a dangerous message for Democrats Blah Blah Blah Blah and. That's just one Bernie Sanders many proposals. There's also free public college cancellation of all student. Debt or federal jobs guarantee and a green new deal to rapidly reduce carbon emissions. How you'RE GONNA pay for this through a modest tax on Wall Street speculation without even or we have a tax on wealth as you. Well know listen to you. Know how? How much though do you have a price tag? Oh boy are you gonNA pay how you GONNA pay a seven hundred billion dollars dollars impacts breaks to the one present in large corporations. Which would what is intercepted? I'm Jeremy Scahill coming from the offices of the intercept in New York City. This is episode one. Eighteen of intercepted. Can Americans trust that? A democratic socialist president will not give Authoritarians a free pass have opposed authoritarianism. All over the world and I was really amazed at what Mayor Bloomberg just said a moment ago. He said that the Chinese government is responsive to the Politburo but who the hell is the polit bureau responsible to who elects the politburo Uganda real dictatorship of course a dictatorship in Cuba? What is said is what Barack Obama said in terms of Cuba. Cuba made progress on education. Yes I think really really bad. To Barack Obama. Certain they made progress on. Education is making healthcare that was Barack Obama Tiger Balm occasionally. It might be a good idea to be honest about American foreign policy. And that includes the fact that America's overthrown governments all over the world in Chile Guatemala in Iran and dictatorships whether it's the Chinese or the Cubans. Do something good. You acknowledge that. But you don't have trade loveless funny living the cold. There are a few patterns in the media and political discourse in this country that I wanNA take a few moments to address and they had to do with the way that the Bernie Sanders campaign is discussed on the airwaves of corporate media outlets and publications as well as among the elite class of the Democratic Party establishment and also among some of the so-called never trump republicans who have made an alliance with these democratic elites in short what we are. Witnessing is the beginnings of the cataclysmic meltdown that will occur in various sectors of the US political class elite class in the United States. If Bernie Sanders wins the majority of delegates in the Democratic primary reading last night about the fall of France in the summer of nineteen forty and the general Renault Calls Churchill and says it's overt and Charleston. How can it be? You got the greatest army in Europe. How can it be over? He said it's over so I had that suppressed feeling. I can't be as wild as CARVILLE. But he is damned smart and I think he's damn right on this one now it has unfortunately become very low hanging fruit to look at. Msnbc's coverage of this primary for a sense of how out of touch delusional and frankly demoralized the democratic establishment. And it's pundits are but it really is something to behold. It's obviously these other. Candidates have not officially talked about it. It's obvious that he's never been vetted crash. I I've not seen the Party Region York Times or The Washington Post. Nbc News or anything else. Then you have this shameless class of neo cons. Lifelong right win. Republicans so-called conservative pundits who call themselves the never trumpers they have been in this weird alliance with the MSNBC DNC crowd in the three years of Donald Trump. And now they are all offering. They're unsolicited and unwanted panic. Adult advice for what Democratic voters should do and how urgent it is that they stop Bernie Sanders this tweet from never-trumper in chief Bill Kristol calling democratic members of Congress governors and other leaders. Could you perhaps say in public? What you say. In private that a sanders nomination would be a disaster for the party and that we're happen to win. His presidency would be bad for the country. I'm sorry but William Kristol Max boot David from all of these other neo cons have no standing whatsoever to pretend to tell working. People people struggling for Economic Justice Racial Justice Gender Justice against wars of aggression. They have no standing whatsoever to tell any of those people who they should be supporting in the race for the Democratic nomination. In fact I would say that these people should not be able to go out in public without being asked repeatedly about their support for all of the civilian lives across the globe that have been lost because of the wars that they promoted and enabled. These people are dangerous. Charlatans and it is shameful that some Democrats and media establishment figure so willingly ignored the atrocious careers of these people and embraced them as allies. These are for the most part Cold War armchair cowboys who do not have the best interest of the vast majority of Americans or the world at heart. They have spent their entire public lives on the wrong side of history as the United States. Senate up I do understand the power of the corporate elite and the one percent they have. They have literally on limited amounts of money. They have significant control over the media over our economy and over the political life of this country bought at the end of the day. One percent is one Bernie. Sanders has been in opposition his entire political career. He has run for election repeatedly taken on major corporate and political forces. He has been vetted. The campaign of Hillary Clinton spent substantial resources on so-called opposition. Research Against Bernie Sanders and produce absolutely nothing that could effectively tar sanders. One of the wealthiest people on Earth. Michael Bloomberg is right. Now spending mega millions trying to smear Bernie Sanders and it's a bit ironic and frankly nuts that bloomberg with all of his heinous well documented skeletons. That are not in the closet but are literally walking around in public for him to pretend to be the veteran chief of Bernie Sanders. Here's the fact if there was any real dirt I mean consequential facts about Bernie Sanders. They would have already been reported on leaked weaponized. And so what do we have now? Red Baiting this was predictable and it was definitely part of the Clinton attack on Sanders back in the two thousand sixteen campaign asking Senator Sanders. I think in that same interview. He praised what he called the revolution values in Cuba and talked about how people were working for the common good not for themselves. I couldn't disagree more. You know if the values are that you oppress people you disappear. People you imprisoned people even kill people for expressing their opinions for expressing freedom of speech that is not the Kinda revolution of values that I ever WanNa see now once again. This Red Baiting is emerging as a central tactic that is being used by Democratic Party elites and by Bloomberg Joe Biden yes people to judge and by Republicans and Donald Trump to attack him there. Is this alliance now between the GOP and the democratic establishment to use red scare tactics against Bernie Sanders? This is the central strategy of the bipartisan. Coalition opposing Bernie Sanders McCarthyism. But the problem is the real winner. Last night I believe was Putin I. We're going to have the most divisive election. If Bernie's the nominee we are going to see two very very angry people representing two very different extremes of their parties and I think that helps make America more chaotic. It makes us more divisive and I think the one that gets advantaged by that is Russia. You may not know it by watching major television networks these days but Bernie Sanders does not go around the country. Campaigning against the murderous. Us foreign policy of the nineteen sixties seventies or eighties or discussing Cuba's literacy program from the early nineteen sixties. He's not wearing a check of our T. shirt at his rallies. No it's the corporate media. Some of Standards Democratic opponents an elite democratic establishment figures the Republicans and journalists who are harping on these issues. Why are we talking about Cuba? And it's literacy program is it because Bernie Sanders is always referencing it in his campaign speeches and rallies no. We're discussing it. Because that is what mccarthyite corporate power wants to discuss in a dishonest out of context effort to smear Bernie Sanders. And by the way. Isn't it interesting? How these political forces are intensifying. These attacks after sanders historic win in Nevada which was propelled by the Latin x vote. Part of what is happening right now is most definitely an effort to weaponize cuban-americans for partisan political smear purposes ahead of Super Tuesday where large numbers of Latin x people will be voting and by the way the Cuban American community of today including in Florida is not the monolithic right wing. Constituency that these attacks seem to assume it is. The truth is that the attacks on Sanders on Cuba Nicaragua. Latin America Sandra statements in the seventies suggesting the CIA should be abolished. These are meant to distract and they are pathetic attacks. But if that's the debate they insist on having. Then let's have a real honest debate on the murderous. Us policies that sanders was opposing. I'm not saying that this would be a wise strategy for Bernie Sanders to engage in to proactively. Raise these issues on the campaign but if he's confronted with this intense fact free a historical red baiting. Yes he should talk about the actual history. There are much more urgent issues to address and Sanders always pivots to those as he should but for those of us who are not running for president right now or working for political campaigns for those of us for whom facts context in history matter. We should set the record straight in the face of these smears of this attempt to revise history. Let's talk about Fulgencio. Batista's vicious dictatorship in Cuba. That was backed by the wealthy power elite inside the US government and the private sector. That was the government that Fidel Castro overthrew and. It is indisputable that the Cuban Revolution brought healthcare housing literacy education to a country that had for decades been a US plantation with a bunch of casinos on it. Let's talk about the Vile us-backed Contra death squads in Nicaragua and its campaign of terror. Rape pillage murder all by the Reagan administration. Let's talk about the coups and assassinations and support for dictators and brutal thugs orchestrated by the US government for decades. If you trace the history of the United States vis-a-vis Latin America and Central America has never been a time when a country made a revolution for the poor people where it was not overthrown by the CIA. With the United States. Government for the Marines Salvador Allende was democratically elected by the people of Chile. He made the mistake of believing that his job as president of that country was to represent the people of Chile and he did his best and he was overthrown by the CIA thought. The interesting question is why does the United States government think whether it's Nicaragua or any other country in Latin a Central America that it has the right to overthrow those Bernie? Sanders came of age in an era where the CIA was being revealed publicly as a criminal. Enterprise overthrowing governments backing death squads actively spying on American citizens assassinating people. And you know what Bernie Sanders had the courage in real time to oppose it when it mattered. You see these cherry. Picking a historical red baiting attacks on sanders that we are seeing from Bloomberg. Buddha judge Biden never trumpers democratic elites media figures. It's propaganda it's rooted in lies and it is banking on ignorance of history. It's aimed at making voters scared of the read menace and it's an effort to try to prosecute sanders in front of their modern day house. Unamerican activities committee a member of the Communist Party or have you been a member of the Communist Party unfortunate and tragic but I have to teach committee that question. The question is have you ever been a member of the Communist Party? Many of the dishonest scaremongering attacks are being made by people who never say a word against us-backed dictators despots or death squads for the most part. These forces are happy to get in bed with dictators and human rights abusers if fits their political or in the case of Mike Bloomberg Business Interests Bloomberg not too long ago was Yukking it up with Mohammed bin Salman of Saudi Arabia enjoying a Venti starbucks as he stood next to a man who oversees one of the most brutal dictatorships in the world and murders journalists. Boomberg makes a ton of money doing business with the Chinese Communist Party and its leaders. Joe Biden was a key player in the start of the genocidal Saudi bombing campaign in Yemen. Let's not even talk about any of their positions on Israel and the Palestinians. Here's the major difference between those attacking Sanders and Bernie Sanders himself. Sanders has consistently opposed. Us Gemini that's why they attack him. These people don't care about human rights unless it fits their agenda if you actually listen to what sanders has said about left wing governments. He constantly offers nuance. He calls out authoritarianism and anti-democratic policies. Just compare Bernie Sanders analysis of China that of Mike Bloomberg who makes tremendous money off of China. Here's Bloomberg shaping not a dictator. He has to satisfy his constituents. Or He's not gonNA survive. Here's a constituency to to to to Answer to vote. He doesn't have a democracy. And now here's Bernie Sanders. I happen to believe in democracy not car carrying China's and other all right. China is an authoritarian country. Becoming more and more authoritarian. But can anyone deny I mean? The facts are clear that they've taken more people out of extreme poverty than any country in history criticized. Because I'd say that that's the truth. Bernie Sanders Crime. That is inspiring. These attacks against him is that he the audacity to acknowledge the good that has come from popular revolutions. That happened to be opposed to the politics of US. Empire and none. I mean none of the people attacking him ever want to discuss context or the bloody role of the US. In these countries that's the trip wire that sanders crossed throughout his career. That makes them hate him so much. Today is this one right here on economy. There's this there's no way around that. This is bad as as you know who saying they were good people on both sides. It's the same. It's the same thing. There's no way to get. I don't agree. Oh I do once you start saying well you know you know. It wasn't so bad because he say that but no. He didn't say that but to Cuban person is just as bad I agree. I don't endorse political candidates and I do not think that Bernie Sanders is some sort of political savior. I have my disagreements with some sanders policy and record. We've discussed some of those on this show and by the way there are a lot of leftists in this country who believe that sanders is being too harsh condemnations of Cuba or are opposed to sanders positions on for instance strikes and some US Wars Bernie. Sanders is not a revolutionary socialist. He's a democratic socialist. And with all that said Bernie Sanders has proven himself since two thousand sixteen to be a great vehicle for change certainly within the constraints and corruption of the US electoral system but both within and outside the electoral process Bernie Sanders has made possible. The building of an incredibly diverse horizontal movement that could radically transform this country and the world for the better. And he's done it by lifting up the movements and people and Communities. Who have been doing this work far longer than sanders has been running for president. And that's the key this campaign who is the only candidates to break up ice and Bernie Sanders. That matters all of this matters. And when it comes to politics you get what you pay for and when you have candidates bankrolled by billionaires who are they going to work for what do you think they're going to work for Bernie Sanders is an imperfect messenger for sure but he has done? The work kept focus and inspired so many people across racial economic gender and ethnic lines to fight for something bigger than themselves. Remember that when you watch the desperate smears against him remember that what they are really trying to stop has nothing to do with Fidel Castro or the Sandinistas or Bernie Sanders honeymoon. This is about stopping the masses of people who are sick and tired of a system that is based on oppression and rooted in defense of a system where the rich and powerful rule. All of our lives the Bernie Sanders Campaign for president is without question the best chance that people have had in this country to nominate someone in our limited electoral system that would truly represent a historic break the best chance since the campaign of Jesse Jackson for the Democratic nomination in nineteen eighty eight the Democratic presidential race has come alive but not the way most people expected Jesse Jackson's big victory in the Michigan caucuses. Last night was almost two over. Michael Dukakis who has been the leader in the Democratic race. We the people can win. This is who are the people who is the people. With Jesse. Jackson ran an insurgent campaign where he had to not only fight for votes across the country but also fight the Democratic Party establishment systematic white supremacy and both race and red baiting and Jackson came close to winning the nomination pulling in more than twelve hundred. Delegates profits go up which is down in jobs. Let's change that situation Dukakis but three to five million dollars three million dollars plus the old thousand dollars which is message instead the party back the more establishment white candidate and the exact same lines that are currently being used to attack Bernie Sanders saying he won't be viable candidate in the general election against trump. Those were used against Jesse Jackson going up against George. H W Bush vice president to Ronald Reagan. Michael Dukakis who was the Democratic nominee in nineteen eighty eight would go on to lose that election to Bush who won forty states in the electoral college and the popular vote. Every one of these funded label they put on you though. Will this broadcast tonight in the projects on the corners? I understand call. Ya Cast lowdown came. Make your nothing from nobody class on the class. When you see Jesse Jackson with my name in nomination your name goes in nomination. I was born in the slum for this law was not born in me and the one going in you and you can make you can make stick your chest out. You could make. It gets doc sometimes but the morning poems don't you surrender suffering breeze kind of Charles. The breeze fade in the end paid to support. You must not surrender. You may or may not get back projects qualified and you hold on hold out. We must never surrender a medical get better and better keep hope alive. We will never know what would have happened. If Jesse Jackson had been the Democratic nominee in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight or if he had been the vice presidential candidate instead of Texas. Senator Lloyd Bentsen. But what we do know is that throughout modern history. The favored candidates of the democratic establishment during the primaries. Do not exactly have a stellar record in the general election. Jesse Jackson is still fighting the fights he always has. He's campaigning for economic and racial justice. Even as he battles the affliction of Parkinson's Disease Jackson is currently on the ground in South Carolina. Where he says he's not endorsing any candidate at this point in the race his focus he says is to register people to vote in the state of his birth. This Week Jackson has a new column in the Chicago. Sun-times confronting the scaremongering surrounding the term Democratic Socialism. It's titled The important word. Democratic Socialism is democratic joining me now from Columbia. South Carolina is the legendary civil rights activist former presidential candidate. The Reverend Jesse Jackson he won the South Carolina Democratic primary in both one thousand nine hundred eighty four and nineteen eighty eight Reverend Jackson. Thank you so much for being with us on intercepted before we talk about the specifics of Democratic Socialism. What's your response to these? Red baiting attacks against Senator Bernie Sanders seems to me if Bloomberg wonder feet trump run against trump and republican primary. This race began a year ago. He said the first ten rounds of the fight. The U on the fighting you live with around. He's I people tied and broke it. Kind of runs. Rochon them GRANDPA's rule. Do not make sense to me and have a white primary voters. And then you have New Hampshire. You Have Nevada and soft. Lana you the bother South Carolina Michigan Illinois on the Front side as a New Hampshire number. One number two. I think that you also have a situation. Where different parts of Super Tuesday? We knew it to be from California one beverage in America's California warrant that Rhode Island in one day. Is that against people who have no have much money. If you had. South Carolina Nevada Michigan Illinois come Harrison Buca was seven chance in Castro. They got wiped out in white bread. Moore's exhausting this time in the Monday Super Tuesday. We run from California to Rhode Island in the same day. Rational person has adopted from coast to coast. Was that kind of money. Burned sentences shown where he can compete. He does well. What is going to be difficult? Tuition competing vote in fifteen states on the same day while and he's going to be facing this onslaught of negative attack ads from Mike Bloomberg. Who's worth sixty billion dollars tech and burn about ten some Nice about Castro mentioned Batista? Things have people in context. I mean Batista. Cuban scene rollins for the rich and the gangsters because we merges in that situation and the people he was authoritarian but extremely began extremes. So I'm concerned that even the capsule thing is seen as Democrat in the same season from Nineteen Fifty. Five thousand blast been lynched. Almost new president the thing about the the thing about it. You Know Reverend Jackson at the same time that we have these attack ads running against Bernie Sanders and this relation of Bernie Sanders comments during the period of the US dirty wars in central and Latin America you have this demonization of Sanders going on. Because he calls himself a democratic socialist. If I know my history correctly the late Dr Martin Luther King and of course you were with Dr Martin Luther King at the Lorraine Motel. You were there in the trenches everyday organizing in civil rights movement. Dr King also was red baited. Dr King also spoke of a democratic socialism and against savage capitalism. The operative word is democracy of one by the people we had democracy. And listen you. Cou exists democracy in women's right the boot coexist in democracy has denied the right to vote. So there's the socialize. The process helps here and job wages. I think they could choose. Those doesn't say Venezuela Cuba China in Bertha Cattle Roosevelt socialis rodent to polls the social security will almost the country subscriptions distance from rugged individualism Pool and substitute for the wealthy even today the socialism the rich true the have the tax cut deliveries and pay. No taxes does socialism in State Highway Socialism the military a social institution universities. The bridges supports ferruginous. Ruth Resistance Does always say now. Reverend Jackson it seems that on the one hand you have Bernie Sanders running against Donald trump you have Bernie sanders running against his competitors in the Democratic primary but I would also assert that in a clear sense Bernie Sanders is also running against the DNC. The elite of the Democratic Party's leadership and really arcane rules that you also faced when you ran for president particularly in nineteen eighty-eight that seem to want to give the power brokers the shadow brokers of the Democratic Party. The final word on who the nominee is going to be. What is your assessment of the way that the Democratic Party governs itself during these primaries and specifically regarding the Sanders campaign that will emission do rent puzzlement to the action? Mold stops all campaign. Burning represents a vast by people and destroy him to some unjust situation. Deportable will not be reconciled. They burn the inland war on on the same history in terms of sense of humanity and a sense of the projection legal protection protection there. Those who've been lockout talk a little bit about the campaign that was waged against you by powerful people in the Democrat Party when you ran your incredibly inspiring run for president in the nineteen eighties. Both eighty four and eighty eight will the notion that could not win was the UH buildings. All we got double digits without a budget. We've got four hundred plus in eighty four with less than ten million dollars budget and they'd be making but we've got twelve hundred delegates. What happened was ended. Willett all but proportionality so if Hillary Wins California Ohio Pennsylvania and Texas in away if you plan about it eight four rules. She's the winner Hillerman bedroom million votes and loses in eighteen. We win by lamb. Eagles lose ascendancy. So this is a fair rules become critical to making them work right now. Of course we're on the eve of the first primary of the Democratic campaign where a sizeable number of African Americans are going to be voting of course in South Carolina. Joe Biden has referred to African American voters in South Carolina as his firewall. And at the same time we have Joe Biden on the campaign trail. Sorry to say it. But it has to be blunt flagrantly lying about his record in the civil rights movement. And I'm wondering what your thoughts are on the way that Joe Biden talks about black voters and the way that he has invented details from his biography in an effort to try to get African Americans to vote for him. Blacks himself a million voters as the big deal. Here in South Carolina is seen as a connected to barack nude ticket to balance the ticket not enhance it. Rose against the Iraq war. He was funny. Right War rousing the Crime Bill. Graham bill a rock was supposedly to heal and the Madden Niclas where the Supreme Court as a monument his leadership in committee so his proximity to Munroe impression he is average civilized clearer than it is and even Bloomberg Money Bloomberg's ads him in Morocco. So clear under this confusing you they'd be will in the same room all of them me but Barack has not objected all the Bloomberg commercials. If you're at all even Cheney's commercial or apparatus he's salads mission to the Bloomberg do that is a factor in this equation. You know on that same question. Regarding Barack Obama he now is producing films for net flicks. And he's been largely silent throughout these three years of Donald Trump. And some would say well that's presidential decorum and he's a former president. He needs to be careful but if there was a moment in history of this country that screamed out for a former president to speak out against the current president. Wouldn't it have been this moment? Reverend Jackson with Donald Trump in the White House Barack Obama to actually speak out consistently against what he is doing in silent in the face of trump on all of us have rising social justice agenda items that censure when this baby is down the boarder trumping the central bog. Five has more should be killed. Even after they found the Charlottesville Rennes record. And I wish president in willing to speak out against but it is his right to be silent but I wish he will use his voice direction. Dispirit Reverend Jackson. Do you have hope that if Bernie Sanders wins the Democratic nomination that it will fundamentally change the nature of the Democratic Party because I think in in a heads up mass with with trump we would be different choices. Between trump's extreme right wing accident rhetoric and our call the moral center in other words would send. The ribbon is not the left wing. Is Tomorrow's healthy ever by is moral pool without Salone is the moral center? Milley's policy recognizes Bella status the most center when you launched your bid for the presidency in nineteen eighty eight one of the only publicly elected officials in the country to endorse you was Bernie Sanders and sanders when he announced his campaign for the US Congress spent much of his time in that announcement. Actually talking about you and your campaign for president. I'm wondering if you can put Bernie Sanders in a historical context when we talk about the whole arc of American history and what this campaign represents today will really resist direction that complexion you should have a and We want Vermont of why the state in the country. I recognize that. I've not go against Bernie but I'm not made decision indoors. Anybody we talk. I showed him observations in the one vicious about another at this point. I think that somehow biting that lousy air balloons is not sound judgment. We were saying no the class. He said Yes it can summers. The cranberry said yes. Sir Granville Mill direct ways that yes the right war difference is right to be there. But he member owned his history. What is your analysis of why so many members of the Congressional Black Caucus have lined up behind? Joe Biden eluded. He couldn't lose machinery in lineup. Follow by but he's Mrs just paint about people. I'm sure what modern means. People don't have affordable healthcare model of moderate means to us to us. Are there any ways in which you think that a Bloomberg presidency would be fundamentally better than a trump presidency again? Answer the two of them it would be. This style is the same. I thought Jaren leadership but Bloomberg has these different than trump's game but while trump to gain favor extreme redway do you think that a ticket of Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth? Warren Beats Donald Trump and Mike pence as they can Virginia like. I'm sure I'm not sure it would be broadened up. I believe it takes two ways of Latte liberal right wing and there's narrow biden wash rush right wing with barack out midnight but the right way Reverend Jackson. Is there any other message that you want to give people? You are a native son of South Carolina. I know and I'm wondering what your messages here. On the eve of the South Carolina primary and then after that Super Tuesday I was born here. I was bliss. One distinct twice led the both burn their handy little poem get Mel Pinon about what I see in the state. I'm excited about the fact that there are not a million plus blacks in the state registered to vote so they will not eighteen year old voting and then the colors voters verse. Difficult in the campaign was Bernie. Sanders has done. Bruce run a rainbow coalition type campaign is often in these bill will fund them women loyal or for this is a difficult for them to beat. Brennan Lizard to something. That is so ugly until it will embarrass me and disgusts me the most that we mesa metropolis left with years we made so much progress. We must not go back. We're not going back. That's what this on. The trump isn't it's another back enormous campaign. Why it's been big benefits about seventy in South Carolina. Jay Black? He's may be black and white was together on that note. Thank you very much. Reverend Jackson for being with us. The Reverend Jesse Jackson is a legendary civil and human rights leader and founder of the Rainbow. Push Coalition. He's also a former Democratic presidential candidate. His latest column at rainbow-push Dot Org is titled the Important Word and Democratic Socialism is democratic. What with the South Carolina primary coming up this Saturday Joe Biden is basically in a statistical dead heat with Bernie Sanders if the polls are to be believed as Biden suffered defeats in Iowa and New Hampshire. He has spent weeks piling all of his eggs into the South Carolina basket and referring to the state with two thirds of Democratic voters African American as his quote firewall of support. And I think I have a firewall in South Carolina. I been calling a firewall. You'll have in an interview. This week with intercepted sanders senior campaign surrogate. Nina Turner said she found Biden's use of the term firewall offensive to African American voters. It is incredibly insulting to the African American community that any elected official consider US their firewall and it is shameful United States of America. Because this is not just about. Vice President Biden. It really is about the how people navigate politics in this country when it comes to the African American Voting Block. That somehow we're thought of somebody's fire while we the only ethnic group only ratio group in this country where. Democrats already lay out weird firewall for this party and needs to come to a stop on Saturday. As voters head to the polls in South Carolina we shall see if Joe Biden is able to break Bernie Sanders. Winning streak a streak. That has been grounded in months and in fact years of grassroots organizing across the country. It's important to keep in mind. How quickly narratives shift particularly in political primary campaign season? If we rewind the clock to media coverage from months or even weeks ago the mainstream consensus was that Bernie Sanders was winning states because they were mainly white voters and that the real test would be one. Sanders hit the more diverse states of Nevada and South Carolina and Super Tuesday particularly with Bernie Sanders and Pete Buddha. Jack booted is a rent registered. Almost no support among black voters. And I think that's very problematic. And it's their job to reach black voter in the Nevada caucus. It was the broad coalition of support from the Latin next community and from union workers that propelled sanders to a decisive victory and it was particularly because of that support from the Latin x community that he was able to win the Latin x vote in a landslide. Three networks of the we have now one Nevada caucus intercepted producer. Laura Flynn was on the ground in Nevada during the caucuses with Aida Chavez reporter for the intercept aidas piece which I recommend everyone read is called. How Young Latinos delivered Nevada to Te'o Bernie that's at the intercept dot com? Here is Laura Flynn's report from Las Vegas on how Bernie one Nevada with Toyota though. Unleash Bernie Sanders. So that's the Pizza Riola speaking interceptor. Porter Aida Alvarez about why she supports Bernie Sanders. It's Thursday night just a few days before the Nevada Caucus. We're in a strip mall in East Las Vegas at a Spanish language caucus training hosted by the sanders campaign. Balenciaga the Latino Press Secretary for Bernie Twenty Twenty explains so what is going to happen at this caucus. Training is that we are going to explain what a caucus is How you participate in it and why. It's important for people to go on Saturday. And so this training is taking place at the offices of make the road action which is an organization mobilizing immigrant in working class communities on issues like economic justice immigration and housing among others colorful posters lined. The walls with slogans reading families belong together and the school to prison pipeline housing justice for Nevada and Medicare for all the organization actually officially endorsed Sanders last month. Just before the training get started. I eat an I meet Christopher Santo. He began volunteering for Bernie Sanders in two thousand fifteen when he was only fifteen years old. Now that he's old enough to vote he's ready to caucus for him. I think it's huge difference. When you talk about Bernie Sanders Angel binding. 'cause when Alec Burney thing of change like Joe Biden thing there is no fundamental change. Our occur and he's convinced his parents and other family members to support sanders as well. These ideas are so radical them like free college agreement. Deal Medicare for all and then when you actually have a serious conversation senior from our lands. They really start to change that like what he wanted occasion for. Odds GONNA ruin the system. Make people motivated. And they're like why not you know my whole generation. My friend my family. There are drowning in student. Loan debt. Why do you think Bernie has such overwhelming support from Latinos? I think a lot of as do education for our because specifically my family my parents. They really wanted me to go to college. I did at one point and go to college. I had to leave because it started getting very expensive education very important and Latino families and when you can go to college because of money. It's it's really difficult. I think Medicare for all as well. I think when I grew up my family was they were immigrants. Now they're citizens thank God and I remember sick and my mom's like oh no we can't go to a hospital. It's cost too much. And just those two policies in itself Medicare Fraud Education for all makes Latino Support Bernie this caucus training conducted completely in Spanish is just one of many examples of the sanders campaign efforts to reach. Latino voters in Nevada on Monday. Actually eat it was out covering campaign organized soccer tournament also on the east side of the city at the end of the day. They're all these areas in communities. Where Bernie is only one showing up. Tom Star can drop however many millions that he wants on ads by. You can only manufacturer like a sern surge like there's a ceiling on that to get above are in any way you're going to need actual human beings who care about your message enough to campaign for you east. Las Vegas is one of the communities. The Sanders campaign is invested a lot of organizing efforts in. Its where they opened their first field office in the state. It's one of the most populated parts of Las Vegas and we're Latinos make up more than sixty percent of residents. Good morning runaway at Desert Pines High School Has a pretty big Latino population or they're in that precinct until we're GONNA check it out it's caucus day where at desert pines high school just down the street from the training in soccer tournament the downpour rain has just led up. We cross the parking lot skipping over puddles in find supporters passing out buttons and signs for Tom. Steyer Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders. Were you sign in as well for me? Yeah how many precincts are I would have to go. Look at the list. They're twelve precincts caucusing here today. One of the first people we talked to is Pablo Montoya. I'm a first generation Mexican American. My parents are Mexico. My mom is from while how school my dad is from So basically I'm the first of my family here to actually be able to vote. Who Do you support Bernie Sanders? I used to wear them. I really think America's ready for change. Now I really think that the young people right now have gotten the raw end of the deal right now. Nobody has listened to us for a really long time while he's here to caucus for Sanders. His second choice is Elizabeth Warren. Because he believes both are trying to build a new Democratic Party and are pushing policies that will directly impact. The lives of millennials like him. I think we're actually ready to take on. The older generation. Actually make change happen right now for generation for something better for we knew deal for everything that's going on for affordable college for something that actually benefits not only the rich and the and the billionaires and all of them in the precinct next. Pablo's I spot someone from the Caucus Trini you. My name is jellicoe medal. She's wearing a new knee. Those Bernie sure. Why do you support Bernie? Why because he's We all my morale for men. They finally these descent lines is why because this metaphor and college free call us for everybody to. I'm I I'm border too so I am really privileged for do this turns out. She's also part of the Culinary Union where she works as a housekeeper on the Strip in the lead up to the election the powerful union pass out scorecards saying Sanders Medicare for all would quote end culinary healthcare. Okay that Culinary Union Grade Union but I need to think with my Har- saw and what I think is we. Everybody need health insurance. Everybody from the calculator. I did this. Math rate eight point eight five seven wind for Bernie as a caucus began voters. Start to split into their preferred candidate groups in each saint became increasingly evident that sanders is leading to encourage voters to support sanders anonymity. Archie LA CO Executive Director of the Center for popular. Democracy starts to cry. I eat a records her with her phone by tearing up I think a vast majority of people sitting in the Bernie side of Caucus Brown People Moseley who believe that the world is possible that it is entirely within reach to have health care and free college and to end deportations. And I'm so moved by the hopefulness of people in a moment of so much as a Caucasus. Wrap up Annamaria sits down with me in the Desert Pines High School courtyard leaving her home in New York to join the campaign in Nevada and help get out the vote. Her job today is to speak to. Voters who's candidates aren't viable in convince them to vote for Sanders. I asked people to imagine what it would feel like to live in a country where we don't have to worry about losing healthcare if we change jobs if we move to another state I asked him to imagine what it would be like for our kids to go to college without being saddled by massive debt. I asked them to imagine what it would be like to live in a country where we're not constantly worried about deportations and I said if you like that vision that enjoying the Verney campaign. It's her first time campaigning. In presidential primary but she understands that Tinos are playing an important role in the elections and that Sanders is taking it. Seriously what do you think about? Sanders efforts to reach out and Organiz the Latino community throughout the country. His campaign has done such a good job. They I really engaged community organizations to shape their platform I know that they asked us what what should go into the immigration platform. What should go into the housing platform and then he has been so courageous at talking? You know by saying that he will include immigrants in healthcare that yes he will include immigrants in his promise of Free College And he will do a moratorium on deportation so I think the way that he has been bold and courageous on his issues has really Allowed people to kind of build deep trust and then on the ground like be. His campaign is amazing. Yesterday I spent some time Volunteering knocking on doors and the gathering the training happen in someone's living room. It was like twenty people high school students. A couple of teachers from the High School Some parents With you know. Blantyre's playing in the background and all of getting ready to knock on doors. So it's it feels compelled feels like that gathering felt like a gathering at my House. You know And it felt very familiar and very much like this campaign was mine. I think another thing that has been really important. Ny Bernie's coalition looks different today than it did in two thousand sixteen is because He has really his campaign has really made a very big effort to connect with organizations people's Organizations Movement Organization so Myron station the Center for Popular Democracy. Action is a network of community organizations. We endorse him after a long process of evaluating his platform and meeting with him and meeting with other candidates His campaign Was able to attract the endorsement of the sunrise movement of People's Action of Michigan Network of letting x people across the country. And I think they are. They know by the way that they courted These endorsement that they cannot do it alone that they cannot build a movement just from a political campaign And that they cannot win alone and they respect and value people who are organized and it showed up here in Las Vegas. They worked very closely with make the road action and Organisation of Immigrants Who actually had a huge rally just a week ago here in these high school in Desert Pines high school. Almost two thousand Dino's came and then marched with Bernie to an early voting site So that has been a really important different thing and many of the unions have sat out usually in presidential elections. The People's organizations that have like power are the unions but many of them have chosen to just sit back and watch the process play out which created a huge vacuum that community organization stepped And community organizations are connected with people in the neighborhoods in a way that you know no one can match so that has been part of the secret sauce of the Verney campaign. Unlike the days it took for the Iowa results to finalize in Nevada within a matter of hours of the Caucasus closing Bernie Sanders was the projected winner sanders. Actually one. More than seventy percent of the Latino vote in Nevada according to the UCLA Latino politics and Policy Initiative giving his victory speech from San Antonio Texas Sanders gratitude went out to the people in organizations. Who helped him get there? Let me thank the People. Nevada battle for their support in Nevada. We have put together a multi generational multi reg racial coalition which is going to not only win in Nevada. It's GONNA sweep this country in Nevada and in New Hampshire and Iowa what we showed. Is that our. Volunteers are prepared to knock on hundreds and hundreds of thousands of doors. No campaign has a grassroots movement. Like we do. Which is another reason why we're GonNa win this election in Nevada? I WANNA thank our rank and file union members. I WANNA thank make the road and all of the grassroots organizations. That helped us win there Monday. I call senior advisor to the Sanders. Campaign Chuck Rocha to find out how strategy in Nevada compared to efforts in other states. Much like we've done with our Latino Strategies are African American outreaches reflective of the same values. Where in South Carolina for example over eighty percent of our staff are people of Color and predominantly African? American and over eighty percent of that staff is from South Carolina so again Li organizing in those communities where that staff has been on the ground. Well over seven. Months is the key to securing that people of Color Black and Brown voters are used to Democrats coming into their neighborhoods two weeks before the election asking for their boats lack. All of these candidates are doing right now. But we've been in those these working over seven months similarly in Texas and California Major Super Tuesday states. They set up offices months ago. Launching robots on the ground organizing efforts the Keita Bernie Sanders. Success is not just the issues which are super important but it's actually taking time especially in black inbound communities to spend the time in the communities even asking them for their vote. People WANNA know. What are these grandiose policy positions and nuances that really move people to vote the way you get people to go to their neighborhood and you ask them to vote and you give them a reason? That's what Bernie Sanders has done. When you've got community organizers behind you it's not so shocking to realize how the sanders campaign one three states more than anyone. They understand what it takes to build a movement That report from intercepted producer. Laura Flynn make sure to also check out my colleague. Aida Vez is peace. How Young Latinos delivered Nevada to Te'o Bernie it's at the intercept dot com. And that does it for this week show. You can follow us on twitter at intercepted an instagram at intercepted podcast. If you missed it this week we put up a bonus episode on Tuesday featuring Nina Turner as as Brianna Joy. Gray the national campaign press secretary for Bernie Sanders. If you like what we do on this program you can support our show by going to the intercept dot com slash join to become a sustaining member intercepted his production of first look media and the intercept or lead producer is jacked as Dorrell. Our producer is Laura Flynn Elise Swain. Our associate producer and graphic designer. That's he read is editor in Chief of the intercept Rick Quan mixed the show transcription for this program is done by Nudie America's Martinez Our music as always was composed by Dj Spooky until next week. I'm Jeremy Scahill.

Senator Bernie Sanders United States Vice President Biden president Democratic Party South Carolina America Donald Trump Cuba Nevada Michael Bloomberg Reverend Jackson Barack Obama Bloomberg Fidel Castro Bloomberg Las Vegas Democratic Party establishment Jeremy Scahill California
Amanpour: Giuseppe Sala, LaToya Cantrell, Sarah Longwell and Mehrsa Baradaran

Amanpour

58:09 min | 11 months ago

Amanpour: Giuseppe Sala, LaToya Cantrell, Sarah Longwell and Mehrsa Baradaran

"Hi I'm drew bb. The host of a new podcast from CNN called great big story. About the curious side of the human experience I know that sounds like a lofty idea. Hearing me up over the course of this show we'll talk some of the most interesting people never from brilliant codebreakers to a couple building their own artificial island. You're itching for good story. You're curious like I am well I think you might like the show. Give a listen wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Hello everyone and welcome to Allan Poe. Here's what's coming up. Mayors of the world unite to build a better faira world out of the covert and racism pandemics, I'm joined by two of these leaders from New Orleans and Milan then tired being embarrassed. I had been riddled with guilt. Shame to this day for him. We've had enough these Republicans talking about that President Sarah. Longwell Co founder of Republican voters against trump is on the program, plus insofar as the market is coated with racism. Is Not going to work the color of money missive Bara. daren tells on Michelle. Martin how the banking system shuts out that communities. Welcome to the program everyone I'm Christiane working from home in London. We must not return to normal after the coronavirus pandemic that is the message from the world's most powerful mayors today as they announced their agenda for a green and just recovery, the Task Force released a roadmap for cities to tackle inequality as well as the climate crisis throughout the coronavirus pandemic and beyond. And as the disease deepens, not the only ones going all in on a green recovery, democratic, presidential candidate Joe, Biden, announcing his own plan to invest two trillion dollars over four years on clean jobs and infrastructure, PT. Listen to how he put it. These investments are win. Win Win for this country creating jobs cutting energy cost protecting our climate. That's why today I'm releasing my plan to mobilize millions of jobs. Are Building sustainable infrastructure. And Echo, clean energy future. So joining me now to mayors who cities at different ends of this corona virus pandemic from Milan is Mayor Giuseppi Sala. He's chair of the global task. Force in his city is gradually recovering off to Italy you. Remember became the European epicenter of the disease, and from New Orleans male Latour, Cantrell the first woman in the job in three hundred years and new. Orleans is currently closing down Baas. Once again is corona virus cases surge. So welcome to the program. Both of you mayors from very different parts of the world as I as I sort of outlined, can I I ask you may Asala, because I think the whole world, certainly the United States took. Took care a lot of warning, and what was going on in your country, and particularly in Milan, and indeed the first cases that came over to the east coast of America came from Italy. Just describe how you doing there. You completely out of lockdown. More or less now situation I'm the hesitation is under control. We don't enough aw. How long for how many weeks or months, but now they should we honestly under control, so we are inviting people. To come back. It's off not. It is difficult for me because. We had the two thousand that. and. So it is not simple. Now. So this. Week that it is difficult for me to say that we have an opportunity to A. Different Way. It is not an opportunity back. Because we have to come back to a new Malik. So that's really interesting. The way you call it an obligation and not just an opportunity. Let me just quickly. Ask. You can travel in in new, Orleans, I mean obviously the world is looking at the United States, which is the current epicenter along with with a Latin America and there's been a surge also in your state Louisiana, and as I said you're closing down Sambas and other other other things in new. Orleans control worried. Are you that this phase one because we're still in the first way of this? May very much, not be controlled. We'll We'll I. Thank you for for having me and Mayor Asala. I'm in regards to being worried. Absolutely are the city of new. Orleans was the epicenter. A hot spot. In the United States right at March April. And and the city of New Orleans, we came into this added as a deficit in regards to Ogden roll populations of people or those living with health disparities, but we were able to flatten that curve by ninety six percent, significantly coming out of community spread we move from phase one to phase two and we are now seeing reverse. Some were taking. We're moving in the wrong direction We are not back into community spread. We don't WanNA. Go back there, and that is exactly why. I've had to put more restrictions for example on bars, although I did allow for them to open. Not at full capacity, but open in the second phase, the new cases that we are seeing our debt are directly. Aligned with the bars in the activity that happens at bars, and so the governor took a step in the right direction closing bars, and so I am very excited about that considering that new. Orleans is the destination place in the state of Louisiana and and have a lot of bars, but at the same time we do not want to go back, so we're still doing well. But. We want to continue to do well and it required. US to could halt on bar activity. So both of your cities are very dependent on tourism and the kind of hospitality active activities that you're talking about Mayor Cantrell obviously Milan as well and much of Italy's reliant on tourism for its economy, so I guess I I want to know whether it's quite a challenge. To talk about building better amid this. Terrible pandemic also massively hit. The bottom line whether it's city budgets individual. Books etc Masala after being delivered such a body blow with the infections and the deaths. How do you see you've talked about an obligation? How do you even start as a mayor? Getting all the other mayors to build back better? Where where does this begin? What is it looked like? You were saying again. In Milan, we had time million tourist thing then joined in nineteen, but I mean working on our On our politics, our university, our activity, we have to modify the former city. You put unity of the city so now I was saying Gatien because it is an obligation to create new green jobs. It isn't a big Asian to improve the body as petition or to create. A new cycle lines. descended. Even from any investment want of you. We believe that moving. To defend our action, it is, it could be an opportunity and one crucial point data. CDs Cannot do it. So we have questing at the national government. Tuition out. Be Internationally, too young to the Subodh, our actions. And to give an example, you know better than me that the European Communities. Financing the counties that. We asking be community repeal community. To financing to amd. Subside positive view and that the oldest team you'll will. Be Females and we are asking them to get the support shoot. Go directly to sustainable city because city applying this. Okay so that is really important. Obviously, you have made a big deal about their green new deal and we've heard that word also. Cantrell in the United States I mean short of calling it that Vice, president, Biden the Democratic candidate has really thrown down a massive package that has drawn a lot of praise even from the most progressive in the party. Can you tell me though you know how you think it'll work the sort of green recovery which you're all talking about because you have you know if if Biden doesn't win. Even as how will they be able to do it given you have so much hostility from president trump, and even now he is rolling back. You know regulations. When it comes to environmental regulations. Well you know mayors. We're on the front lines why we're on the ground. And we have been focused on. Climate change climate action. We have been focused on renewable energy platforms being greener being cleaner because it's the right thing to do. A climate change is real in a city like New Orleans and Flooding due to rain water, and the the weather patterns have changed the rate of rain has increased of the rain, bombs or real, and so regardless of who the president is on the ground in my city. Green infrastructure and living with water is a priority, and it was a priority pre colon. and it will continue to be want so we're doing the work right now. Whether that is ensuring that we're building more green and blue infrastructure to whole rainwater, freeing it up from going into our drains and more importantly from getting into the home of our people, keeping our people safe as it relates to. Renewable energy platforms or make sure that people can keep that bear out of their pocket and keep the dollar in is a program we call solar for all one example that we can get into someone's home where they live more energy efficient, making an improving the air quality in which they're living in, therefore, it impacts their help in a positive way and again keeping the dollar in their pocket, because the economics of our families in our people are just it's. Critical so to mayor solace point of saying that. Hey, this isn't about an opportunity. It's about an obligation. I agree with him one hundred percent mayor. I'm going to take that away from you and we're GONNA share together. Because when we know that our cities, our destination cities. We know like New Orleans we had eighteen million visitors in our community last year and twenty nineteen, so the impact on our bottom line in attacks that we're not receiving. It's a real thing, but more importantly it's our obligation to diversify our economy to get more of our people connected to jobs with higher than a livable wage so that they can build wealth transferable well. And be better because of it. This virus disproportionately impacted the people in this city and the majority. Now I've lost five hundred and forty-three residents in my city. Four hundred and four of them are African American. That's an example disproportionately impacted, but those were living. With also health or underlying health conditions and all tie to is the economics so obligation. You're right, mayor. So so let me ask you because one of the obligations obviously I. It was the pandemic, the got so many people talking about building back better, and then it was the pandemic of racism which read. It's terrible, ugly head again in the killing of George Floyd and you do mentioned that the covid has shown an exposed how the most vulnerable like the African Americans. Americans in America the minority communities, and indeed around the world in Italy in Britain, and other places, those on the front lines of this of this crisis were the worst hit, and those with the least resources so man solid. I want to ask you very quickly before I go back to talk about the economics of this. Do you also see having to emerge? Not Just Bill Becher in terms of cycle lanes and things like that, but also in terms of justice in in terms of trying to reduce the inequality gap, trying to level the playing field of the of the racial divide, because it exists in Europe as well as in the United States. It is a problem and. Let me say a game. I cannot pronounce words paternity, but they die of. Understanding how Mike Gunther can contribute to. The now. We are suffering because we we have missing. A normal of Meighan and that is reality Soyuz. Sometime the politic, the politician discuss about many many silly things that and don. On the problem this is Robin in any case in the deepest. Rubber number one is unemployment, Melanie and the into the crisis. We've an employee memory of. Let me say six. Seven percent now you're maybe the double that. And so that? We check. We have to find the new new. which from this point of view at the end of the day CDs more or less facing the same problem. And that is the reasonable which seaport community decide what together and allowing him my miss my staff or the Mayo compelled to learn from each other and implemented I. WE blame the right action to to work. In governor. So, look, we have seen certain the United States where this administration has been hostile to the idea of environmental policy and it has. Supported the fossil fuel industry, the expense of of the more sustainable energy outlets and I just want to put the economic point four with Vice President Biden made just WanNa. Play this little bit from his announcement yesterday. These are the most critical investments we can make for the long term, health and vitality of both the American economy and the physical health and safety of the American, People Donald Trump thinks about climate change. The only word he can muster is hoax. Climate Change. Word I think is jobs. So both mayors I wanted to ask you, but I can cantrell because in the United States. It's much more difficult. It's a difficult message to convince. The. Most of the people that actually huge economic opportunity can come from climate jobs and green recovery. We had the world economic. Forum say today that a nature lead recovery could add ten trillion dollars to economies, so. How how much of a Is it for you may Cantrell to try to. Get that message to people, and is it reaching people? The fact that this could actually bring jobs to those who desperately need them. Well. You know what I think that. People have to see. and in the city of new, Orleans with these green and blue infrastructure projects that are happening. They're seeing in real time the impact, not only that it has own the communities in which they live in meaning that it's holding millions of gallons of water. That's not going into their home, so that catches your attention, but also when you tie that to real jobs and allowing people to. Earn higher than a living a living wage where they can have access to quality healthcare. That showing them, and that's providing them with the training and tools that they need to take advantage of these green and blue job. Opportunities that are again real, so I believe that when we continue to show. And Demonstrate to people that they're real and people start seeing a change mean meaning an economic shift more of our people earning a living wage, more of our people being able to build well transferable well, that sends a message, not only to that family, but to the community that seeing that happen so when they can benefit, and they see the benefit. You bring people along, and it doesn't. Just come with talk, it's action. And actually we might point out the edleman trust barometer says that mayor. Certainly in the United States have a very high trust level amongst people right now. No matter what's going on the right now you certainly do, and of course of course you speak about rogue water with such passion, because you live in the state that was devastated in the city by Hurricane Katrina and you did a lot of work building back out of that, so let me just finish with you. Man Masala in Milan. I guess I just want to know from you whether you feel that this moment. This sort of tipping point moment that many people are hoping it will be will persist, you know. Will this goodwill? Continues to try to build back better. Will the funds really be there? Will you be able to do it or you're just going to be struggling to survive after the massive economic it that the whole world is taken during during this pandemic. I believe that the people is. Understanding that business as usual mapping now and they business actually do if I amen. Let me say the only way to modify this social environmental. Our social life is to work on CD's. This is the crucial point that and we are convinced, so that is a reasonable week. We have a creativity we have. We have been universities so so many reason which he it makes sense to bind on the on the seed. And let me say. Now even before even before the GOB. Discussion in my city in the Imola about. The future and the digress question was. How we adding matching Milan twenty two PM nobody day they. All the people was talking on the environment. So that that is because now it's the time. And, of course, it is very much an election issue around the world so. Mai Asada, Cantrell thank you very much indeed for joining us. Have you ever felt like you running to the bathroom more than you used to? A lot of people think it's just a sign of aging, but it may not be. I was in my forties, working corporate job and taking care of myself I didn't understand why. I needed to go so often it turns out frequent bathroom trips may be a symptom of overactive bladder or alway be a treatable medical condition. We asked people to share how it affected them. Listen in it Oh. A B. Med dot com and hear how they ask their doctor. Doctor About Managing O. A. B. Symptoms with Mir. Petric Mirror Baghran your rhetoric is a prescription medicine for adults used to treat oab symptoms of urgency frequency in leakage. Do not take. You have known allergic reaction to Mir veteran or its ingredients. 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E. D. dot com. Now. In much of the world, of course, elections determine the direction of any city or any country and the surgeon corona virus infections in the United States are shaping the cause of the presidential election campaign, but the chaotic response was again highlighted by an extraordinary and rambling Rose Garden press conference yesterday that people are still talking about where the president seemed to meander from China's threat to Hong, Kong to Corona virus to then attacking his Democratic rival Joe Biden but Mr. Trump doesn't actually have to look across the aisle for his opponents groups like Republican voters against trump of springing up and trying to convince Party members and voters to abandon this president with testimonials and ads like this one. Tired being embarrassed, I had been riddled with guilt. Shame to this day for voting for him. We've had enough voting for Donald Trump has been a monumental mistake. I'll take anybody over him. I'm voting for Joe. Biden Joe Biden. Donald Trump has to go. It's okay to change your mind we did. And it could be working this new poll from Monmouth. University shows the President Trailing Biden, in Pennsylvania, key state of course, and it was key to his two thousand sixteen victory, which he eked out just narrowly joining me now is the CO founder of Republican voters against trump. She Sarah Longwell, a political strategist and lifelong Republican, and she's joining us from Washington DC Sarah Longwell. You know right now. It's meant to be all hands on I. Can all Republicans trying to I guess any normal cycle it would be all party members trying to get their president elected, getting all excited about the convention and the rest, and looks to be very much the opposite, even the conventions. Big names is sort of dropping out. Very very rapidly. How? How did you come to the? Point where you've actually got a whole Organization of Republicans against a Republican president. Well, you know I've been out on the president. Since the moment he came down the escalator. And ever since he was elected, I've been thinking about. How do you defeat this most unfit president and I wondered. Republicans did what made Republicans vote for him, and so for the last three years. I've been doing focus groups with what I would call sort of reluctant trump voters, soft trump supporters as I think about what we do with the party going forward, and has it been totally hijacked by this sort of nationalist? Populist President and as as things went on, and you just saw him, you know. Capture the party more and more you also another thing happen, which was the party got smaller right in two thousand eighteen. We saw a number of especially suburban women walk away from the party vote for Democrats that led them to flip forty house seats, and and and as I thought looked twenty twenty. Twenty in the research I really thought well. What is most persuasive? What would what would cause people to walk away from Donald? Trump and the answer was real stories from people like them. There's a real permission structure aspect or a social aspect to the way people think about trump, and even about politics. You know it's very tribal, and so when Republican voters who right now are as. As demoralized as they could possibly be, because we are sitting not at a place where there is a a rock solid economy, but instead a double digit unemployment health crisis that's not being managed a racial crisis that the president is pouring gasoline on and and so we went and found all of these people who voted for trump in two thousand sixteen, but we're saying I'm. I'm not gonNa vote for him again. In Two thousand twenty and we encourage them to tell those stories, and then we're going to show them to other people, because there's and really this this category of soft trump supporters because we're finding that there are so many people in this moment. Who even though they were with the president for a long time are starting to rethink things. Let me, let me ask you to sort of almost go back to the beginning a little bit or step back a little bit because. You say you were against him from the moment of escalator, and there were many prominent members of the Republican. Party, we can list. WHO said the same thing that unfit for presidency. ETC But. Then you know who, by inauguration day seem to be changing their minds and people like yourself seem to be on the again on the house in terms of being behind the president and being in the heart of the Republican. Party I guess. You describe that moment when all these people I guess. Have you been looking for leaders inside the party to do what you're doing. Yeah I mean the way I would describe that moment is really has been sort of an invasion of the body snatchers type experience I mean. You just look at a person like Lindsey Graham who's a politician I always thought very well of know kind of a moderate to see him. Go from somebody who was. John McCain sidekick to being the president's one of his most supporters as just been. Like it's like living in the upside down. It's been it's been crazy. To Watch, so many of these Republicans that I've long admired. become complicit and I think the reason. That they do that is is really just an interest in proximity. To power and look back in. For a long time we looked for somebody that we thought maybe would primary the president. We thought there was a a realistic option for that, and you heard names being kicked around back in two thousand, seventeen, twenty eighteen people like Larry, Hogan, but ultimately you know as time went on the president's grip on the party, absolutely got stronger and really felt like nobody was going to sort of rise up to beat them, and that's why the moment when Mitt Romney actually stood up during impeachment voted to impeach was. was both in some ways a heartening moment to see at least one Republican do it, but in another way was devastating to see with so many the facts being so clear to have just Republicans refused to sort of Stand up in that moment and I think that was pretty heartbreaking actually for a lot of Republicans. In my position, really admire people like Susan Collins. Early Murkowski just to see them. Just not put the guardrails on this president. It's been. It's been hard to watch and and so I think that the only option there we are left with is not only Detroit need to be defeated in two thousand twenty, but he needs to be defeated resoundingly i. just can't let the party learn all of these bad lessons from the trump time that it's okay to lie that it's okay to be corrupt You know if we're GONNA have any chance ever of taking the party back and establishing it as a centre right governing party that is responsible. Than Than, not than Donald, trump and trumpism be thoroughly repudiated in this election, which is why I think you're seeing so many Republicans stand up in this moment and actively work against The party unapologetically just not scared to do it because it's the right thing to do at this time. You know you mentioned about about the support I mean he does still maintain upwards about eighty percents support among Republicans. I wonder where you there's. There's an extraordinary graphic. It shows a graph of the approval rating in other words how people see the direction, and whether they're satisfied with the direction of the country, and it was about fifty five percent amongst republicans in two thousand seventeen shortly around the inauguration time and is plummeted. Look at that steep steep drop off. To, now about nineteen percent, obviously Democrats and the others. Imagine where there would be but look at that amongst, Republicans. Do you attribute that specifically to corona virus to the the terrible surge of of of. Of Racism in America, will not the surge, but the re exposure of racism in America since the death of Joe George. Roy, what is turned that lot against the president? So it's actually pretty simple. I think it's about personal consequences for the last few years You know people like I said I, do a lot of these focus groups people just aren't paying a ton of attention to the day to day sort of craziness of trump the way that a lot of people who are involved in politics, and so you know they're just not I think turned off the same way, but the the the crisis, the health crisis, which is compounded then by an economic crisis, and then on top of that racial crisis. All of that had really as personal consequences for people, and so I've heard a lot of people say. You Know Hey. I was I was buying on trump until the corona hit, and then it became a matter of life and death, and the stakes were too high, and it seems like he doesn't care I. Mean when you when you think about the juxtaposition of so many people right now. Thinking about what am I gonNA do about sending my kids back to school or there are people are still you know living in their basements to work every day and and you've got a president who's focused on monuments. You know I love. The Washington Monument as much as the next person, but that's not really central to people's lives at the moment, and for the president to just sort of check out wave, the white flag I think that people I mean you see his numbers on on the coronavirus in his approval of the handling their incredibly low, because he's not doing a good job, I mean that's what the never trumpers were always afraid of was he was unfit for this big job and I think what the rest of the country seeing now is when you're in a crisis moment or a multiple crisis moment. He's really unfit for the moment. Sarah a lot of Republicans, who were initially never-trumpers really liked him because they liked his tax to tax reform and tax cuts for the wealthy. They like Supreme Court. Nominations. They liked all that Kinda stuff, so they stuck with him I. Guess what I'm trying to say is this has been a longtime coming, I. Mean Republicanism has essentially laid down this route. For a figure like Donald Trump you know you had even one of your co founders William Kristol. Of Our fat he was supporting Sarah. Palin as you remember that incredibly disruptive of vice presidential choice of of John McCain I just wanted to whether you think that the party itself has had a hand in where where your party is today. Yeah I think there's some of that, but I also think something bigger is happening in the country I mean. I think we're seeing kind of a populist surge. Look at Bernie Sanders on on the left and you know there's this. There's this kind of populist moment that's happening in America where people don't trust. Elites you know they are skeptical of all information I mean when I talked to these voters all the time. They never know who to trust and I think the populist moment is bigger. Than, just one candidate I think the Democrats have done a better job of holding the populace momentum on their side at bay, and that is evidenced by the fact that they nominated. A. I mean he's a relative moderate. Let's say certainly compared to the the rest of his field, whereas the Republican Party was sort of rape to be hijacked. I think the Donald Trump saw an opening, and it was certainly an opening that I wouldn't have seen I. I was. That's one of the reasons I started doing. The focus groups was I was so caught off guard by a Republican Party. That would tolerate. That that level of you know talking about Mexican judges and. And all the even even just tolerate somebody who was such a conspiracy theorist. I mean going back to Barack Obama's birth certificate, I think I think what happened. is is that that was strain always existed in the Republican Party, but it wasn't the dominant strain, and it has become the dominant strain, and so yes, I think the thing that was that was there the core that maybe some of us didn't see and certainly didn't see how dangerous it could be in the hands of Donald Trump, but I don't think it's just limited I think you're seeing around the globe. With populism and so I think what's what's important to me if part about defeating Donald Trump and I, I'm I'm I'm glad to support somebody like Joe. Biden, is you know I think that it's time to double down on liberal democracy. Because that and have America continue to be a beacon for that in the world, because I think the entire world is getting a bit on shaky ground here. Also. Can I ask you because you? Obviously also a log cabin Republican and you you? You fought for equality in certainly in in gay rights and the like, but you know again. The Republicans have made a career of certainly in modern times wedge issues. You know all those issues that we're talking about whether. It's whether it's race whether it's sexuality. Whatever it might be, it's not just populism. It's wedge issues as well. Do you think that? As, you say if he is beaten and beaten bad that the Republicans might change and not be so reggie and not drive a stake as they have been accused of certain into this administration. Between people. Yeah I mean I agree with with some of that analysis where but I do think all elections to some degree or about wedge issues, but I very much. Agree with the idea that people have used in this case. LGBT issues back in the Bush years. As a way to divide people in one of the reasons that I was as involved in Republican politics. Is that I I wanted to make the Republican Party more inclusive, and I think when when Mitt Romney lost in twenty twelve. There was a real push. You might remember that autopsy the got together. I actually thought there was this real opportunity for the Republican Party to become a more inclusive ready to try to reach out to minorities to try to reach out to women but it has gone absolutely opposite direction where it is now basically a white working class man's party, and that is a demographically unsustainable. Party there is not a big enough coalition there to deliver the kind of margins. You need to win big elections, and so I do think that if Joe Biden just absolutely demolishes Donald trump that it will send an important message to the Republican. Party that they pull the rabbit out of the hat in two thousand sixteen, but the Dave trending in the wrong direction for a long time, and they don't rethink the. The Party and entirety, and what it stands for I mean look, you can have a party. That is just an opposition party. That is just hey. We're here to save you from the far left Democrats. When I became a Republican or when I was attracted to conservative thinking it was because Conservatives and Republicans stood for something, and I just see so much less of that these days. It's really just. Hey, we're not them. And! That is not a winning message, long term and so yeah I think that that the party my hope is, is that a massive Biden victory and that's not assured i. also I'll tell you, but that a massive Biden victory will force the kind of reckoning needed in the party. Fascinating certainly fascinating to hear from a Republican how you are targeting Republican voters, and of course your colleagues at the Lincoln Project doing the same or similar and trying to go all the way down ballot as well so we'll wait, and we'll watch and thank you so much for joining us on this. Now the data shows that the median white family has times more wealth than the average black family. Our next guest Musa Baron is a law professor at the University of California Irvine in her award, winning book, the color of money, black banks and the racial wealth gap. She examines how black communities have been systematically shut out of the banking system. It's a big brick in the wall of structural racism and I'm Michelle. Martin has been looking into these issues even before the current crises that we've been talking about that a sweeping America, but of course this conversation just shows how prescient these warnings have been. Professor Mircea Barada on. Thank you so much for talking to us. Thank you so much for having me. Your latest book is called the color of money. Black banks and the racial wealth gap is specifically about the role of black banks, but your work is so much more than that one of the things that you say in the book. Is the wealth gap is where historic injustice breeds present suffering that this is rooted not just in slavery, but in the history immediately following slavery. How does slavery which ended in eighteen, sixty five have present-day consequences. One of the things I try to do in the book is to. Look, the myths that we tell ourselves about of American capitalism and then kind of show the reality show the gap between right, so the myth is that once slavery was ended. There was sort of capitalism and free markets and you. Since then there has been equality, and the reality is in the on the economic front. The American markets were not open and capitalistic and free right specifically in the protection block property, which was never their exclusion from certain jobs and market so after the civil war. And emancipation, instead of getting land the free leave did not get did not get land. They got this savings bank. They put their money in the savings. Make trusting it. I'm thinking that it was backed by the full faith and credit of the federal government, which it was not, it was advertised be, and they lost half their wages, and this is in a time of heavy segregation and. A show cropping right share cropping is an arrangement that is a debt arrangement. It was basically a freed slaves, going back to the plantations, some of which they adjust sort of escaped from and growing cotton. In the same way they did under slavery, except for they were no longer slaves. They were you know a sharecroppers of land? They were tenants That was not a wealth-building. Mechanism meanwhile a lot of white. Southerners and Westerners and easterners were able to get benefits from the Homestead Act. If you look at the nineteen thirty four era, new deal measures, those are much more consequential today. So what the one thousand nine hundred four Fha gi bills did is sort of cement that racial segregation into law and policy, and what they did is go round drawing risk maps around the country this. This is before credit scoring or anything like that, and they said look. If you live in this neighborhood, the risks are low. Your property is going to gain value, and so we're going to ensure your mortgage and the way that they determine those neighborhoods is how white they were, so if you live in a white neighborhood, and it continues and remains white. Then you get your. Mortgage insured by the Federal Government. If you live in a black neighborhood or one, that is what they called racially inharmonious meaning there were you know other races living sight each other than you were in high risk neighborhood, which meant that your? Your mortgage was not going to be insured, so those maps are followed by banks and by private lenders, well into nineteen fifty nineteen sixties, and you have. Contracts housing contracts putting racial covenants in the contract. You have HOA's. You've got neighborhood. Associations really just enforcing the boundaries of their neighborhood and excluding black and Brown people you make the argument that credit really creates wealth, and that if African Americans are locked out of the credit system, it keeps them poor. Why is that so? I want to distinguish between good credit and bad credit. Right so the good credit you know the fha loans the GI bills. The kind of stuff that is government subsides guaranteed low risk credit thirty year fixed rate mortgage things like that. That's good credit right so now you can pay if you. You have a little down payment. You can pay basically less than you're paying rent and your building equity in the house. That's a good mortgage credit that builds wealth, because then you're taking that little equity that down payment that you put down and and creating wealth, because your property is going to increase if it's in a certain neighborhood or a student loan that is low cost, you can use to go to college and then hopefully make some money and use that good credit. Bad Credit is the stuff we talked about payday loans installment credit and supreme. Credit high interest high. Risk Credit, so we were you've had. I call it a Jim crow credit market that has developed on top of the segregation patterns, and so what we've offered a lot of white communities, since the new deal to now is lower cost credit right and then to black communities. It's been installment credit subprime credit that sort of blew up in those spaces and credit that is not wealth-building so I wanted to distinguish distinguish credit. The two types of praise and we're not just talking about all. Good access right so just payday lending is not good. You make the point that white immigrant groups have it points in their history faced the same kinds of restrictions that black people have access to. They were locked out of lending institutions. They were segregated in certain neighborhoods at some point. But you say that they've had a very different trajectory you know. Tell me more about that. In fact you saw you cite the Bank of. As an example, which was formed when Italian immigrants faced discrimination, and we're ghettoized. What happened there a very different history than that of most of the banks that Iro's to serve black people what happened there? And why so different? If you look at the Bank of Italy's example, it really just show the disparate impact, the disparate sort of trajectories of the two different races, so I've Italians and Irish. Many other foreign Arabs. Mexican, he's imigrants. All sorts of people were also non white. Some are still nonwhite, but. Looking at Italians and Irish specifically kind of just shows how how these markets and sort of whiteness worked so. Pre sort of new deal. Let's say Italians and Irish were also excluded in the way that blacks were although. If you look at segregation patterns, it was never quite a stark, so when you look at the black segregation patterns in certain spaces, blacks were much more segregated than Italians Irish, but they were Italians is were excluded from these these things but post, fha. Post sort of new deal credit Italians and Irish get included in that American suburban credit market, so they do get the GI bill, not restricted from certain colleges they are able to buy in communities that are suburbs that are able to grow equity, and then so you look at Bank of Italy Bank of Italy starts as a bank just like a lot of the black banks that I highlight in. In the book as a response to exclusion, so when you have a black community or an Italian community excluded from the mainstream credit system. What happens a lot is the entrepreneurs within the community established their own bank, so bank of Italy establishes Italians aren't getting benched by other mainstream students, but once the Talian do become part of this Fha in bill credit. Big of Italy's able to thrive and. Survive in California in San Francisco and there's a lot of really great economic sort of. Tell wins, and so Bank of Italy then become sort of Your Bank of California, and then it is now bank of America. Bank of America, started as the Bank of Italy. Bake of America's is a consortium of a bunch of different banks, but yes, it starts as Bank of Italy that becomes turns into Bank of America, and and really I mean so do Italians or right Italians are Americans at as are all of us I think looking at the way that that bank works really shows how certain immigrant communities have been included in others. Others have not you also get a case study of the fact that African Americans even when they have attained some economic success are often targeted for it, and you give the example of the Tulsa riots. What I'm hearing from you and what I read in your book is that? Is that a lot of what we have sort of seen as police, violence and Other forms of oppression, really our economic terrorism. It's really intended as much to terrorize people in a physical sense as it is to kind of deprive them the opportunity to gain equality through economic standing, which is something that other. have been able to attain. Is there any place that? Contradicted that pattern I mean you do talk about Durham North Carolina. Can you talk a little about that? During my sort of contrast with Tulsa in the Durham understood that they were very precarious situation they were also very successful black businesses, but they purposefully did not bill the tallest building in town they built the a smaller, more humble building right, and so they kept that wealth, more hidden and more sort of secondary to the to the white structural. When you are a minority group in a majority environment, what the survival dictates apparently the route derm, but I will say on that terrorism point and the riot point. I mean the the majority of US history. When we talk about terrorism, we talk about riots and violence. It is white violence against blacks. A paramilitary violence of the clan, the riots in the north, and just quite frankly just particular domestic terrorism anytime. A black family moved into a white block countless stories and I tell a few of them where a black doctor or wealthy. Black person will move into a white comedian Jesse. Binga black banker in Chicago that I, highlight his house was bombed like ten times and kept moving I'm an American citizen. I can live where I want I'm Dr Austin's Austin sweet moved into a building and a white mob gather, and they started throwing. Bricks and setting a fire and they she was armed and brought his friends, and they kind of shot out in self defense, which is their right sort of you know a pre. To protect his home and he gets charged with murder, because someone in the crowd is killed by one of the bullets, and so you have actually a pattern of white violence against black homeowners. So when we talk about capitalism we have to talk about who's property are protected by the laws right and. Max Talks about the monopoly of violence that a state holds, and so we've talked about whose property is the state protecting and whose property is not protecting on the question of capitalism and you to make the point in the book. That black capitalism has been sort of embraced. Across the political spectrum few out. Time I mean from Frederick Douglass to Richard Nixon to Barack Obama. who were all? You know obviously very different people you know in theory. It should work right. In theory it should work goes back to one of the sort of the core principles of your book. Is that without wealth? There is political equality is very hard to attain so has. Isn't it work so so Nixon? Really staked his administration on black capitals, and I focus on it a lot in the book because that's kind of the world, we live in right. This theory that look what black communities need is more capitalism and more entrepreneurship. His opponent during. During that election in one, thousand, nine, hundred as Hubert Humphrey. Who says you can't have black capitalism without capital right, and that's essentially the point. I'm trying to make in the book. That's the point Frederick. Douglass Mesa Frederick. Douglass believes in capitalism, but he says you can't have freedom. You can't have capitalism without land right because if you don't have land, you actually don't have freedom and that's essentially. What happened Frederick Douglass was proved right in the post. Civil civil war era is. Because slaves didn't have land. They lost the vote. They lost access to political systems. They lost equality and freedom. We can keep talking about entrepreneurship and opportunities, zones, and things like that, but we have to look at the structures of how capital capitalism works, and what the laws of capitalism are. Capital just grows unto itself right. If you don't have capital you, it's really hard to get capital if the structure of capitals and is just going to keep sort of an perpetuating certain things. Toward capital, right so I think looking at home today right looking at. The way that property increases in value decreases in value when you still see the wealthy black people, their properties aren't increasing in value if they live in a predominantly black neighborhood, that's that's capitalism, right? That's the market coding the racial preferences of market participants right, and insofar as the market is coated with racism. Capitalism's not going to work, but also WANNA. Make the point that we have to actually have never really had true capitalism in America I think that's one of the biggest myths is. We had a lot of subsidies for white families, the FHA the new deal. Gi Bills, fha, that was not capitals. That was the government coming in. Making, maps of certain neighborhoods and guarantee mortgages, white neighborhoods, and not guaranteeing him and black neighborhoods, so if you're gonna look for where capitalism has has been, it's been in the black neighborhoods. They've had no government. Subsidies was white. Neighborhoods have had government subsidies looking at the tax code, right? We have a tax code that benefits the middle class you know through our mortgage interest deductions. College Saving Bilsel so I. Just want to think hard about what we mean. When we talk about capital sound, so give us some ideas. Some of your ideas for how you would correct this really simple. We know how to create wealth for families. We did it through the FHA. We do through the new deal so I've suggested. A new homestead act that takes some of the benefits of the last homestead act, and without some of the bad parts and looks at how cities. Evolve and looking revitalization. That is not gentrification right so what you have in a lot of spaces right now is the stripping of black spaces, whereas whites are coming back in right, so the FHA wife left to go to the white suburbs, and were able to you know gain from that, and now you have the reverse trend, and so a lot of black families are getting dispossessed of their homes. Homes and being re segregated into different areas, so disrupting those patterns and allowing people to have equity as their properties and revitalize I think looking really hard at what reparations looks like every society that has taken from You know when you look at the Holocaust. You could South Africa you look at the Japanese internment. We have done reparations. We as Americans have done reparations other countries that have done. Done significant harm to a minority in reach of the social contract that we've promised our constitution promise equal protection under the law in the thirteenth fourteenth and Fifteenth Amendment and those promises were violated. Does damage look like right? What how do we make that right? You can call it reparations. You can call a damaging call whatever you want to, but when you have to acknowledge, acknowledges the harm and then. Then go to step two and three is. How do we actualize some remedies? Talk briefly what about postal banking? That's one of the ideas that you've that. You've become known for what postal banking and why is that something that you think would help so? Postal banking is actually a an idea that I have that is beyond just for for the racial wealth gap before any communities that are. sort of in banking desert that you've seen in the banking sector is conglomeration homogeneous. Banks and they've as Bank of America. Going back to that example has sort of you know gobbled up a bunch of different banks in this. Tenure a merger way that it's done is is what it does. It closes up banks in areas that are less profitable, so we're talking about rural areas. In the south in the West in the middle of the country, white black areas that are just low income that are just not profitable for bank. So what happens in these areas is people have to drive thirty miles to an ATM, seven eleven and seven fifty right, or they can go to go to walmart or payday lender, check casher to get their financial transactions, and so the idea with the postal bank is to actually have the post office, which by by its original mission is in every community. Just allow for simple banking, so this is. A debit card so you can participate in nationwide commerce and checking account so you can pay your bills online and not have to operate in cash as simple idea. I think that would benefit a ton of communities, not just. Black and Brown community birth certainly also to the I. Don't think that's a solution to the to the vast racial wealth gap I. Need I think we need bigger guns for that, but this is a solution to A. Problem of poor families, spending ten percent of their income on financial transactions at the rest of us. Don't pay for because we have making out. Professor Marissa Barada. Thank you so much for talking with us today. Thank you so much for having me I really appreciate it. It's an honor. Exploring important solutions and a note that the book the color of money was one of the inspirations behind Netflix new pledge to invest one hundred million dollars into financial institutions and organizations that directly support black communities, so that is very good, and finally a monument moment for black lives matter here in the UK today the topple statue of the slave trader Edward Colston was secretly replaced with this sculpture of A. A protest. Who helped bring it down last month in Bristol. Her name is Jen Reed showing you raising her fist in black power salute, the figure is called a surge of power, two, thousand, nine, hundred twenty, and it's based on a photograph of read who actually climbed onto the empty plinth after the Colson statue was dumped into the harbour last month by demonstrators. Here's how she reacted to this development. It's amazing it looks like it belongs. There looks like it's been there forever I think it's something that's incredible for the moving. Is it just shows what can come out of? Our offer protest and how? It's moving forward. It's it's talking about people educating themselves as to why we have. Amount of movement. And the new figure was erected by the famous British artist Marc Quinn and at the base of the statue. The words black lives still matter that. Is it for now? Thank you for watching and goodbye from London.

Donald Trump Vice President Biden United States president America Italy Capitalism fha New Orleans Joe George Mayor Cantrell Orleans Milan Republican Party Louisiana Frederick Douglass Sarah Longwell President Sarah
Who is to blame and what can actually be done? | PM Show

The Michael Berry Show

1:11:54 hr | 7 months ago

Who is to blame and what can actually be done? | PM Show

"Breakfast guys let's go. I'm leaving for mcdonald's and five seconds the breakfast emptied meal. It's only at mcdonald's where there's some veal for every morning and nothing says morning like a classic sausage mcmuffin with egg right. Now get this all time favorite for just two bucks on the one. Two three dollar menu price and participation may vary cannot be combined with any other offer combo meal vodka. It's that time mocking load. The michael berry show is on the air coming up on the show. Today there is some reasonableness in california where i state assemblyman sued the governor and one the autocratic governor gavin newsom and his authoritarian dictates or not sitting well with good people of california and a judge agreed. We'll talk about the realignment voters across the country. Joe biden did well with white liberals but democrats are in real trouble because the growing hispanic vote is increasingly republican. The question will be after. Donald trump whenever that is will the next republican be able to offer a message that will appeal to hispanics because donald trump's message did donald trump's message a building a wall and ending illegal immigration actually made him far more popular among hispanics donald trump's message of opportunity in criminal justice reform turned out to gain him a lot of black votes against the man. Who said if you don't vote for me joe biden. You're not black. Or maybe they just didn't believe his corn pop story and found to be pandering or worse. We'll talk about where we are. But i don't have a conclusion for you there. Unfortunately but i do wanna talk about some of the things that we've learned from the last round of elections and that includes digging down into issues that haven't much been covered for instance. The interesting ballot initiatives around the country california had several progressive initiatives. Their ballot prop sixteen was to repeal the state's constitutional ban on using race in higher education admissions even comma harris pushed hard for it. It went down in flames. With fifty six percent opposed. Now there's a lot of in there so explain what happened proposition. Sixteen would say right now. The state's constitution says you cannot use race in higher education. Admissions prop sixteen said. We're going to take that away. That went down with fifty. Six percent of the people opposed another initiative was to repeal a criminal justice reform measure. That had already been passed in the california legislature. That measure eliminated cash bail and allowed judges to assess risk of release. The measure included some standard. Release for those convicted of misdemeanors voters rejected that measure as well voters in california did pass proposition. Twenty two which allows gig workers like uber drivers to be treated as independent contractors effectively putting a nail in ab five the law. That said all folks doing gig work had to be employee's you know it's very interesting. Split in the democrat base this of gig workers and supposed- labor rights gig workers tend to be young immigrant. Not as likely to have a traditional job and people that i think would be more likely to vote democrat the more free spirits. These are people who enjoy the fact that they can drive one hour a day or fourteen hours a day for as many as i want buber and companies like it lift and the like as well as the food delivery companies these folks create an entirely new industry and in so doing they broke the back of the taxicab industry. The consumers didn't like and truthfully the drivers didn't like the only people who won when you had to call dispatch. Let it ring thirty five times. Have somebody say to you in the most smarmy lethargic way possible they would send you somebody out to pick you up an hour and a half who may or may not end up arriving. That wasn't good for the consumer and it wasn't good for the driver the only way you could be a taxi driver. The only way you could be a a provider in the field is if you were committed to doing it full town because you had to rent your vehicle from the taxi. The dirty little secret that most people don't know is taxi companies. Don't make their money off of you. Riding in a taxi. Taxi companies are car rental companies. They just re their vehicles to the drivers. They have the medallion. The driver can't get the medallion. So they read these cars for more than they would rent a car if it was to the public. Because they have the medallion they only provide the dish. The dispatch service as a way to get the drivers to rent the vehicles. That simple so uber comes in and says we want to be able to create a marketplace where buyers and sellers of of transportation services can easily connect and they did and it took a huge bite out of the taxi business and now taxi companies are largely left with contracts for disabled people with city and county governments. There's nobody wants to taxi then. Much rather have an uber. So all these people who now all of a sudden whether it's their primary business or a way to make a little extra christmas cash were loving this this uber system and lift and the various competitor businesses. But as they did the labor union said. Oh you're not getting. All the benefits of being an employee will step in will organize on your behalf and you'll get more money and better benefits well as most democrats are. They're stupid so the drivers said. Oh yes yes. I want all the benefits of this new industry that was created in the gig economy but i also want all the benefits of being an old blind company. I want labor benefits. I want i want you to impose all these burdens on and lift an uber and lift. Said if you do that we can no longer provide this service. It won't work that way so finally. The consumers began to realize. You know you don't need to have benefits if you want benefits. Go to work in an industry that provides benefits a lot of these people don't need benefits because it's not their primary or only job you will destroy this segment of the economy if you overlay. All the tired old outdated labor restrictions on it because the economy has changed. So maybe i guess. There were a few positive improvements. I'm not sure where to put this. But oregon decriminalized it's all hard drugs including meth heroin and cocaine washington. Dc decriminalized psychedelic plants. Arizona south dakota montana and new jersey all went for fully legal recreational weed. Now fifteen states are completely legal. Mississippi approved medical marijuana. That brings up to thirty states. Medical marijuana's legalized your calls coming. You've got was a bad dude. The michael berry show thirty five years ago today. The miami vice theme song. It's number one. On the hot one hundred it would be the last instrumental song to top the tally we were told. The president. trump is a racist. People don't like him except the people do. Many hispanic voters in the southern part of texas abruptly left the democrat party. Donald trump did well across the country with minorities even the new york times points out quote as urban and suburban voters sorry as urban and suburban areas moved in large numbers toward democrats. Many hispanic voters in the south abruptly exited the democrat coalition. The rio grande valley shifted decisively toward mr trump as heavily hispanic areas along the texas border with mexico including huddle go home to mcallen delivered enough votes to help cancel the impact of white voters in urban and suburban areas star county a rural border county hit with high corona virus rates. This summer had the biggest shift. Hillary clinton won the county by sixty percentage points. Back in two thousand sixteen biden won by only five other border counties including maverick. The dog had cameron also swung heavily right. Compared to the two thousand sixteen there was an indication of a hispanic movement leaning republican when former representative. Bego rourke a democrat lost ground in some hispanic counties in his two thousand. Eighteen race against senator ted cruz a republican in all. Go county for instance. Ms clinton won by forty. One percentage points in sixteen aurora one by thirty eight in eighteen but biden won by just seventeen. The states i thirty five corridor from the northern suburbs of the dallas fort worth metroplex to san antone was a wash in newfound democrats mostly white and educated. The houston suburbs also moved in mr biden's direction what we are witnessing. We'll get to that. Let's take some calls. Cindy you're on the michael berry. Show go ahead dear. Hey michael. I was just wondering over the weekend. I tried to find newsmax. Tv so that. I could watch all these great conservative programs and can't find anywhere so can you help. What your cable fun at. What comcast. I've got a list here. They are a show sponsor of our show. Full disclosure comcast. Is that the same as xfinity. Eleven fifteen yeah. What not actually on eleven fifteen. It has a number but it doesn't and it's on your guy but it doesn't have any programming. I will ask. Chris rutty the owner and founder. What to do in that situation. And if you'll come back tomorrow. I'll announce it in the meantime what i would tell you to do is you can watch them. Free on roku zumo youtube youtube easiest. Pluto apple tv chromecast amazon fire if you have a smart tv samsung and lg apparently you can watch them directly but the easiest way to watch them is the app. There's a free app on your phone. Do you have an apple phone. Yeah all right so pull out. Are you calling me on it. Yeah all right. Put it on speakerphone. We'll do this together. I'm not very technologically savvy. Person with if i can figure this out you can too all right so go to your app. That says app store. it's blue with an a. Looks like it's made out of three Ice cream sticks. Yup all right so push that and then in the bottom right you'll see search. You see that i already told me to download roku no tape. Download newsmax. I did that too. But i want to be able to stream it on to my big tv stream. Anything else from your ipad or your phone onto your tv can stream espn app. Okay will then whatever you do to do that. That's so far beyond my capability that i can't tell you but you can get it off your app and then watch it directly okay. Does that make sense. That does make sense. You know. I think that the question you're asking in the conversation we're having is going to be one. That's going to be held by a lot of people. Janine pirro was taken off the air from fox on saturday night this past weekend because her show was dedicated to exposing voter fraud during the election and fox decided. They didn't want that. So i think that the conversation. We're we just had. That conversation is going to be held. All over the country david in texas which is inbetween beaumont and houston for those of you wondering go ahead. I wanted to give you a website to go to that shows. Electric vote counting fraud cross country. They joke and it's captured it on cnn. Where the votes changed the total vote between trump and biden didn't change but the vote freeze candidate changed by nineteen thousand. Nine hundred and fifty. Six votes was added to biden and subtracted from trump. All right. And i think that's a big problem across the country and how many republicans were ousted within that six point change. See that that's the other thing. It's not just the presidential election. What is the website. Sir is bitch shoot. B. i t. C. h. u. t. Thank you tim. you're on the michael berry. Show go ahead dear. Yes they're just a second. I'm interested in starting a recall On on kim on do you think that's possible anything's possible. But i will tell you like tell everybody else. The time to be an elected official is during an election and if we couldn't get the votes necessary to defeat an individual in an election. I have a hard time wrapping my arms around why we should recall a person. That person is on the ballot. And we we made our go at it. I'm not gonna tell you not to engage in a recall effort. I'm going to tell you. I'm not leading recall when we couldn't get people to show up and defeat a person elections should matter and for those who don't know what we're talking about the harris county district attorney here in in in houston which is the largest city in harris county. We had an election because a lot of criminals were put back out on the streets. The democrats got their votes out. Republicans didn't and she won fair and square. So i don't again. I'm not gonna tell anybody not to engage in in civic activism. I just psychologically. How do you justify we're going to recall somebody that was on the ballot last week and we couldn't beat them i. I can't get their michael. You're on the michael berry. Show go ahead. I'm sitting with my beautiful wife of forty nine years. She commented to me. If if joe biden wins she wants to move to a different country after a few moments pause. She said no need. We'll be in a different country. You know what's interesting. Michael are have been reading comments from different folks around the country who are commentators sort of live this day in and day out in. it's funny. How often very dispirited comments are preceded or succeeded by an lol or some sort of very dark cynical laugh and that's a. That's a coping technique. It's not actually funny. I read an article once about jewish funerals. There was a tradition for a long time that you would have a gesture show up and it was like a roast and that person would would tell jokes about the recently deceased wasn't because the person wasn't loved was because the person was loved and that was a way of of grieving of coping with the grief was to laugh so we may have to have some good laughs to prepare ourselves as sav for the wound that is about to be inflicted. This is going to be a very very tough. And as joe biden called it a dark winter. I think it's going to be dark for years. So gird your loins. It's coming this is you may cut me man. But i'm going to wrap this chain around your head. The michael berry show sounded. We've talked kathan engelbrecht over the years with the tea party patriots. With true the vote she was the group that was targeted by lois. Lerner at the irs. The obama administration in two thousand twelve to prevent them from getting their tax free status in order to therefore prevent them participating in the election that year she became a national 'cause celeb- for how wrong that group was she's our guest and she's back in the nude catherine true true. The vote launches validate the vote initiative and whistleblower compensation fund to ensure election validity process integrity. Tell us about it. Well you know we are being inundated with people who are coming forward talking about what has happened in this election process. And so we put together a A fund to encourage people to continue to come forward we put together a legal fund and have recreated the The team led by jim. Bob the attorney who who Came up with the argument for bush. V gore. We've assembled all of those attorneys are looking at the legal Legal cases to be had in the key states where they are still counting by the way and working hard to peel back the layers of what really happened and make sure that we have a transparent and honest count because this is far from over so is the idea to compensate whistleblowers. They'll come forward. It is the idea is to compensate whistleblowers that they will come forward. But i will tell you that the the people that we've had come forward thus far want nothing to do with the money we've gotten to Blowers that needed whistle blower protection One of the federal level one at a state level And we are able to hear that we will. We will cover the legal defense fund if anybody if it goes in that direction But yes i mean. We're we're just running to do anything we can to encourage that people holding credible actionable evidence. Come forward because what we are seeing in the data but we are seeing in the in the numbers In the movement of record doesn't make sense and so we're we want people who know what they know locally to help us. Connect some dots and we are connecting a lot of dots quickly. Where do you expect these people to be coming forward. They can check us out at true. The vote's dot org and go to our validate the vote page. We have information there on. What how how they can report what Whatever it is that they need to share or they can call us on a toll free twenty four seven line eight five five seven zero two seven. Oh two and so in your mind. How does that process work. Someone calls in and says I witnessed this because obviously a lot of people are going to have heard of things sherrit. I'm assuming you want folks who personally witnessed or were part of it right so the kinds of things. We're getting our videos from people who worked inside of the election Audit log tapes Reports from people who worked inside of the election You you know. This is very much a A puzzle piece or very puzzle that we are assembling by pieces To understand based on user these voter experience based on election worker experience. But that's all that's all sort of rounding out what we are already doing. A very very deep and thorough level at the data the data level to resolve identity residency and should have censorship To to ensure the the the idea of one legitimate vote for one. Legitimate voter is counted. So all of this comes together and you know the more data the better but what happens is people come in we go through a first screening and then a second screening and ultimately if you make it down the funnel we're taking depositions and the idea is that most of these funds will go toward the immense legal fees travel in rogatory that the the the data compilation process of this the the trial. Prep that it takes to get there. Oh absolutely i mean clearly the the cost of this and having you know all of the attorneys in place. All of the data data and analytic folks in place and working round the clock is is exorbitant but You know right now. We have a million dollar fund setup that number can grow exponentially as as need. Be somebody out. There has a legit smoking gun which i don't know if it exists michael because i think that this is a thousand front war but if somebody did i would encourage them to let us know because the the money is is is could potentially be. You know of epic proportion to get to the bottom of what really happened here All that said though. I think the story once it's finally told and it will be told. Is that there are. There's is there are pockets of griff all throughout the process and so it is our hope that we have the opportunity now to prove this out once and for all and to encourage everybody that this is far from over just because the media has called a president elect means absolutely nothing. There are so many Deadlines in this in this in this time. Line yet to be met and resolved in states are still counting. We can't forget. That states are still counting. This is not over but is it your intention to continue on. Even if a a winner is declared served president to concede. I don't think he will or anything else because it strikes me that in election integrity matters no matter whether it's going to affect who wins or loses. Oh my word ab absolutely if we stop now knowing knowing what what. The country is just been through. And we're hearing from republicans from democrats from first time voters from you know every walk every spectrum. We are hearing from people who are incredibly upset but this process has has so eroded to a place where we cannot trust that our our results are accurate and they are basing that on their own experience. jasper limited. what got you here. Let me get the phone number from you again. It's eight five five slowly eight five five seven. Oh two oh seven. Oh two or you can come to our website at true the vote dot org dot org and i can personally tell you having known catherine over ten years now that they will ensure your confidentiality and they will do what they say they will do catherine engelbrecht. Thank you very much. i appreciate it. Thanks for being with us. We'll have you back for an update. Soon eight five. Five seven zero two seven two or true the vote dot org from visions to librarians. Everyone listens the michael berry. Show Oh don't complain ask like oh must put you in a good mood. It's okay to think on christmas. My wife and i had to run some errands this weekend. We walk into a retail shop in houston call highland village and she looked over and said oh my god. They're trying to recreate a snow scene. Said yeah 'cause they have to trick people into buying stuff so you'll walk through and buy you. Pumpkin spice latte not buy anything. Oh but i'll buy if i have to buy for christmas. It's amazing how the professionals trick us into making decisions. That are not what we would have. Decided already might bear some relevance to what has happened in this country over the last four or forty years. bing crosby's white christmas was the first record in history to sell more than three million copies. The second everyone's favourite gene autry tune rudolph the red-nosed reindeer three million copies sold. You know dasher and dancer and france and com cupid dom glitz. But do you recall the most famous reindeer of rudolph the red nosed reindeer had their shiny in. Oh so why did i tell you that. Being crosby's white. Christmas was the first record in history to sell more than three million copies in gene. Autry is rudolph the red nosed reindeer the second because on this day sixty two years ago today. Elvis presley would become the third artist with a record to sell more than three copies. The flip side was don't be cruel but the big hit hound. I don't wanna creep you out. But at a minimum. Your grandmother made out to the song. If mama's if eighty she was eight teams and she was making out with paypal or worse she was making out with the fellow before apple always creepy. I mean you're comfortable with the fact that you had girlfriend before your wife or ladies boyfriend before your husband. But you can't imagine ma'am all had a boyfriend before pat paul and she kissed him. We're in bobby socks at the sock. Hop while nobody was looking and then they went down in the soda jerk gave them their drink. He just turned. Put one on a right there in public and i'll have some decent. It's true sixty two years ago. Today your memo was dancing a way that would make you blush today. This next segment. We're going to call pronouns in the bio. It comes from our friend. James parker in the bio city will actually houston's value city but in new orleans where we are heard on w are in the heritage station but also a nod to our friends at w. j. b. o. in baton. Rouge we call this game pronouns. In the by you are bio. We know you're gonna like it because you've already played it. You just didn't know it yet. For those of you on social media you're scrolling through social media accounts and you see someone say something completely idiotic but it's a special branch on the far left side of the idiot tree so you check their bio who is this clown and sure enough. They have their pronouns listed. It's almost a fifty fifty shot. But we find that mocking these politically correct. Googlers is downright therapeutic. So the way this game goes on the radio is. I'll read you a quote from someone's tweet or other platform and their screech their screen name. And maybe give you a hint or to like if they have a rainbow emoji in their handle or they work for cnn. Or maybe they have a phd academia. You then guess if they have pronouns listed in their bio of their account. It's that easy. It's a little word play with the term bio for those of you who don't catch on quickly. Here's the theme song for pronouns. In the bio your own eye and you finance um oh c- they have pronouns by all right you're ready now for pronouns in the bio. Let's start with this woman. Sure who she is alexandria. Ocasio cortez she tweets. Is anyone archiving. These trump's sycophants for when they tried to downplay deny their complicity. In the future. I foresee decent probability of many deleted tweets writings and photos in the future. Let's look up who she is. Us representative new york fourteenth. Bronx queens in a modern moral and wealthy society. No americans should be too poor to live hundred percent people funded. No lobbyist money. She slash her. Yup she put her pronouns in the bio. How about this next one her name. Comma harris is says. Keep the faith. She says all sorts of dumb things on his twitter machine so we went looked her up at says she is vice. President elect of the united states. How do you figure senator wife mama. La anti fighting for the people she slash her. I can't tell if this next one is a boy or girl but it says david hong imagine calling the immigrant parents that bring their children to the united states for a better life coyotes. The level of xenophobia is sickening. Think he got confused when the president used the term coyotes. Let's see his bio. Oh yeah he him who could have guessed that one. I guess he needed to because otherwise you might not be sure. And then there's someone named ty colli who i think it's a woman but it kind of has a manson look to it. I'm so impressed by the mental gymnastics. All the third party voters had to do this cycle in order to justify their dumb choices. Congratulations on being spit in an ocean tie colli has her bio sugar spice not enough nice twenty-three. Blm she slash her. You were wondering stat time time mocking load michael berry. Show is on the air. California's governor gavin newsom is out of control. His lockdowns his over the top of our -tarian measures but there are counter to that process. Works more often than you realize. Kevin kelly is a california legislator who has opposed gavin newsom and one first of all. Kevin what did the governor do wrong. I mean how much time do we have Thank all you want. I can't stand the guy. I mean The the thing that he did wrong as a matter of law is that he has turned california into an autocracy and. I don't say that in a rhetorical sense. That's literally what is is done and what he has. He has a right to do i. During our court case he claims that in so long as the state of emergency which is declared which he determines the end of that all powers of the government Are his own. He can stay by decree make new policies With the stroke of a pen in superior court judge Sided with myself. And another legislator tunes gallagher in ruling that you cannot do that and issuing a permanent injunction to restrain him Teacher out of constitutional orders. What in particular were the orders that you opposed because there have been a series of them coming out of his administration. That's right it's been fifty eight. I believe executive orders now during this covert nineteen state of emergency so the one in particular the we challenged happen to do with the mail in ballot issue that the governor has unilaterally decided to Make the policy for the election this year but we could have picked any number of them. Point wasn't to necessarily validate that one order. Although the judge did do that point was to challenge the type of power that he has taken it upon himself to claim to exercise and so That's why the permanent injunction important part of this case. Is that it restrains the governor with respect to future orders. Let's talk about what exactly the governor did. Kevin kiley our guest by the way is california legislator he is a california state assembly member since two thousand sixteen representing the sixth district. But before we do that. Where is the sixth district. Where's your home district because the soccer okay. So you don't have. You don't have a long commute. I don't. I'm one of the lucky few who doesn't have to fly to the sack about so the governor issues. This emergency services act was that was that a voted on by the legislature. Yeah the emergency services act has been in place seventy and it's been used by governors never but the way the gavin newsom claims that there's this provision eight six twenty seven that gives him autocratic powers. Give some plenary authority to govern as he puts it so he's sites that provision and At least almost half. I think after twenty four of his executive orders Like no previous governor that he's give us an example has used that particular provision in any executive orders so this has been on the books for a long time. it is a very broad. Aw i it does need to be reformed but gavin newsom has gone well beyond what's that act allows them to do so when you say it's an autocracy and i've read the piece that you wrote when you say it's an autocracy autocracy. He basically assumed these powers these sort of war power emergency powers. That would allow him to do most anything. You've taken him to court in what the l. a. times calls the ruling a rebuke of governor newsom. Where are we now. So where we are now is that the governor has time to appeal so he has you know that he has that right that we're very confident that the ruling stand up on appeal but he has put out a statement saying he's strongly disagrees with the specific limits the this ruling places on his emergency power so he recognizes that the approach that he has taken an intense intended to continue taking of simply taking over the job of the legislature and continuing to rule by is not possible. Primitive terms of this order. And i'll also point out that you know when it comes to the more far-reaching restrictions that are really impact on people's lives and like walk down There's not a lawsuit that uses are save legal theory that the governor has violated separation of powers to challenge out as well and it should be noted. The pacific legal foundation has been involved on your behalf to provide some of the Legal artillery to bring this case. And i assuming i'm assuming they're covering a lot of these expenses were we actually haven't We've been representing ourselves. We thought that was very. Were legislators at that. James and i happened to be by trade. So we've been doing our case in cro purpose the pacific legal foundation which is fantastic organization. They have a separate case so they filed last week That is using the same legal theory that we use. The governor is violating the separation of powers and using that now to go after this. So-called blueprint as of the governor has using the shutdown business. Okay so to be clear. You're a member of the legislature. But you are in a private capacity. Act against an attorney to bring this case to limit the the autocratic rule of this governor. Who's issuing these unconstitutional Edicts that's right. I mean we thought that you know. We're really standing up for our branch of government here because the governor is taking over the role the legislature. And so we said we should represent ourselves argue the case ourselves and You know i think that It's part of the reason that it's gotten a lot of people interested in the case is because we've tried to sort of use this to to illustrate what has gone wrong over the course of these last eight months. And how gavin. Newsom has completely undermined our entire system of government checks and balances separation of powers the rule of law the constitution itself republican representative government. All those things have gone out the window and he's claimed he has legal right to do that and with the court said no. We're talking to kevin kiley state assemblyman in california. Who got a. Who won a victory against california's governor who had all the weight of the state and all of legal team there. This ruling restrains newsom from issuing further unconstitutional orders. You note here is the text of the permanent injunction gavin newsom in his official capacity as governor of the state of california is in joined and prohibited from exercising any power under the california emergency services. Act which amends alters or changes existing statutory law or makes new statutory law or legislative policy. His argument is going to be these emergency powers. It's not a long term policy change. I've got a pandemic on my hands. I'm trying to make the most of that. Pandemic exercise powers. I otherwise couldn't and you can't stop me even with this ruling. what do you do. Then if he violates the terms of the order that of course you can be held court so we're making it very clear. Which of the past orders we think are valid and You know i think that the judges injunction is via terms. Clear is by all. There is the difference between executive power but yet does Become broader in some ways During emergency that's by design but that is different from legislative power the power to preschool. You are only policies which under our constitution is always the domain of the legislature and even during an emergency is knock them that the governor can claim for himself. That's not the way our system of government was set up. That's not what our founding fathers intended they understood would've urgency's were. They've been through a revolution. They also understood what monarchy was policy was. they'd experienced that and yet they enshrined in addition the idea of the separation of powers so that no one person who can accumulate too much power in their own hands. I love what you're doing. Can you hold with us and stay with us. One more segment. You bet. kevin. Kelly is our guest. What do you call assemblyman. A representative in texas call representative. What would you be called in california. Yes it is the norm. All right kevin kelly. You can find him on twitter if you're on twitter at kevin kiley k. I l. e. y. c. ca for california. Doing great work. Continue our conversation with him coming up next. Michael berry show continues a all great on aware. Get gavin. Newsom the governor of new york much like the governor. I'm starting to cover of california much. Like andrew cuomo the governor of new york and others taken it upon himself to use the pandemic as an excuse to do what he probably already wanted to do. Anyway which extended his authority over the lives of the people and restrict their movement their ability to engage in commerce state assemblyman. Kevin kiley has filed a lawsuit which he has won in the court of judge heckman that has limited the power of the governor to make laws instead of simply execute a them. What's been the governor's reaction on a personal level to y'all have any sort of personal re- personal relationship assemblyman well. We've tried to his office to try to talk about You know having the legislature play a more constructive role And that's not just me james. Actually the chair of the senate Budget committee issued a scathing letter to the governor. Recently same time and again we try to convince you to work with the legislature. Instead you just come up with stuff on your own and expect us to rubber-stamp it so that's part of honestly governors probable. He's never been good at relationships and he's always sort of a you know taken Approach that You know engaging with the legislature is not worth his time and not sort of. Obviously you know been brought to a new extreme this year when he just decided to pretend that the legislature doesn't exist and he can take over all of its power for himself. I'm assuming you're a republican. I don't know are democrats in any way bothered by this. Because they're watching their businesses closed. They're watching their people unhappy over this right right you know. It's been pretty disgraceful. The way that the legislature the whole has conducted itself this year More or less the leadership of the california legislature decided. Take the year off They adjourned for twelve weeks during the initial stages of this then took another You know Four months now of the year Have no interest in staying at the capitol to try to work to solve some of the problems that are affecting people's lives There's been a couple of people on the democratic side who have spoken out one of just mentioned also assemblyman phil team decried. The governor's Complete authority to do whatever he wants. There's been some rumblings recently. The maybe some of them are supportive. Assembly gallard gallagher and try to restore the legislature to its proper place. But all in all it's hard to imagine a legislative body dropping the ball more momentously than california's legislature has this year. I mean they have been complicit in governor news taking a sledgehammer to representative government. That aren't people noticing that this is having a a dire economic effect on california businesses and the california economy. People are noticing shirts just that You know there has been no appetite to challenge the governor on this on the part of the legislature as a whole body. which is. Why haven't we tried to do this. someone the gallagher. We tried to get the legislature to step up. We tried to actually. We introduced a resolution to to terminate the state of emergency thinking that would result in a greater power. The power that we're supposed to having to do is look at what effect this is having our businesses and ask the governor require him to give evidence on how his policies have any basis in science or evidence which you know when you have a one person. Who'll autocrat convinced himself which is why so much of what's happening in california. The lockdown and all of these policies are arbitrary have no basis in evidence and no basis in science So you know. It's all related in my view. California arguably has the worst cova era performance of any state in the country. We have the third highest unemployment in the united states. We have the fifth most excess deaths of any state west of mississippi one of only seven states with a school closure order statewide. We have the biggest backlog of unemployment claims because of our incompetent Unemployment office. And i think that is all related to the fact that we have a governor. Seems the things that he can just come up with policies without having to explain them without having to justify them and then can impose them on forty million people. You know it's unfortunate rick. Perry our former governor of texas tells the story that he was speaking to a group. I can't remember maybe there's an l. a. Maybe it was san diego. But wherever it was he had to the pacific ocean to his back and it was absolutely dilly just beautiful and the ocean to his back and he's speaking out to a group of of businesses and it was a corporate relocation summit in each of these companies that was there was either a relocation agent or a company looking to possibly relocate. And he said let me tell you. How bad california has done it. He said turn and look at that right there. Y'all are considering leaving that right there. I can't offer you that and it's so true talk about beautiful weather. Mountainous regions seasons Just incredible oceans so many things that for so many years caused people to flock to california and bad policies of driving them away as reading an article this morning. Quote overpaid executive tax in quote in san francisco hits firms. That pay ceo's a hundred times more than workers. So san francisco has decided if you pay your employees if you play you pay your ceo over one hundred times more than employees. We're going to hit you with a big tax. So salesforce is already looking to move. But that also affects. Companies like visa and j. p. morgan. That are doing business there. I mean these sorts of policies and trying to run businesses are eventually going to cause people to move to places. They never would have considered before like texas. That's exactly right and in fact if you look even before covid nineteen. There was a poll that showed that fifty fifty three percent of people. Here are thinking of leaving which is a staggering figure. That's called a failed state with over half of your people want out and as you said. Despite the inherent natural advantages the california has offered and then he plays way like no place in the world and so. I think what you've seen this year in terms of what's gone so wrong with california's response to cope nineteen shouldn't be viewed In isolation taking the usual failures of our state policies and putting them on steroids. And i think if there's any silver lining here it says that that is giving a lot of people in california a window into the source of all of these Up the deterioration of quality of life if people have known for a long time that things are going downhill in california but maybe haven't connected it to the corruption and the failures of our state capital. But now i think that people are are starting to see that for what it is and it could be laying the foundation for For major political. Change here kevin. Kelly is a state assemblyman in california. Have about two minutes left. I'm curious if you think there is anything to the theory that perhaps people didn't want to counter governor newsom because that might in some way assist donald trump and republicans and that now that the election is over. We can get back to good policy for the people in that. What he's doing is not good policy for the people not only for small businesses. Who are dying as a result of this but for the consumers and it for the employees are losing their jobs or are making less money and for the consumers who have fewer choices for their quality of life. La- possible and. I think the fact that you know. The legislature has basically been taking You know the entire year off and we're supposed to now come back at the beginning of january and get back to work. Maybe there'll be some who is finally do something but the fact is we ought to legislature the reason the fundamental reason that it hasn't really got anything that the institution has now exist is simply not year looking out for the public interest. You know we have a capital completely controlled by special interest groups You know a lot of legislators Sorta simply do as they're instructed and so you know the fact that people might be suffering. The economy might be harmed that there might be ill served by what's going on That's just sort of not the way it works. That somehow voted Some sort of legislative response just because our audit capital is so highly controlled by the court of lobbyists that circle it our within a matter of you know yards that The the cry for help throughout the state have never been What i've quality in sacramento. Which is why. I think you know the whole situation mainly Have fundamentally realign that because you have people out of state who have their eyes on the capital like never before are starting to see What gone so wrong there including you reminding us that there is some sanity in the great state of california. Kevin kelly. thanks for joining us. Took michael berry has also known as l. to see no nights never seen blue is our guest honored to have him is the director of jihad. Watch and schulman fellow. At the david horowitz. Freedom center is the author of an amazing twenty one books including the new york times bestsellers the politically incorrect guide to islam. He has a new book rating. America's presidents an america. First look at who is best who is overrated in. Who was an absolute disaster robert. I'm going to work backwards. Which president was an absolute disaster from an america first perspective. Well there were plenty. Unfortunately one of the worst was jimmy carter. Who of course presided over the fake energy crisis Well obviously the crisis was real. The gas lines were real high. Prices were real but they were all caused by over-regulation that ronald reagan pull back and suddenly the crisis is over carter. also aided the Strengthening of the soviet union and then reagan came in and he was the only one who saw that with a little economic. Push the soviet union would collapse and that's what he worked for and ultimately brought about. But at the time of the carter administration it looked as if the soviet union was here to stay He drastically weakened america on the international stage in connection with that impoverished americans domestically with his Various irresponsible economic policies and of course he projected an image of weakness and pusillanimity when he responded to the soviet invasion of afghanistan by pulling us out of the nineteen eighty olympics which is hardly proportionate. I'm not saying we should have gone to war over it but His response was sort of ridiculous. I think pity the ridiculousness of his presidency. In general i agree. I was thinking. Woodrow wilson may make make an appearance on this list. I've not review. Woodrow is yuppies. Gives me. He's right there with jimmy. Carter Wilson probably did more lasting damage as a matter of fact Carter courses more recent and people know more about him but woodrow wilson although he is still revered by many on the left was probably one of the worst. If not the worst presidents that we've ever had in the first place he's responsible for the beginning of the internationalism an endless wars that president trump is rightly decried and tried to get us out of although it looks like the empire has struck back now. And we're going to keep on sending our troops into pointless international conflicts without a goal without a purpose without an endpoint. But that will started with woodrow wilson when he was justifying our entry into world war one and he said he was going to make the world safe for democracy. Now that sounds very high minded and we all learned in school but if you think about it why exactly does america have a responsibility to make sure that other countries have good governments especially when we're spending our blood and treasure to do so and our own countries being weakened not only that but woodrow wilson had no respect for the constitution he imprisoned people simply for opposing world war one and Consequently made a very disquieting precedent. That is all the more relevant in our own day of Trampling on constitutional protections. Because they're simply nobody's going to stand up to him and This is a extraordinarily dangerous thing to have done. And we've seen with the rapid erosion of our freedom of speech because of the social media giant. This is all yet something else. That was Began to be brought about by woodrow wilson. He was also a horrible racist. The first movie that was shown in the white house was birth of a nation which is a justification for the kkk and he re segregated the civil service after president ulysses s grant had desegregated it in the eighteen seventies. and so he is responsible for a great deal of the fact that the racial tension in america is still very much with us. It might have been a long thing of the past by now. If wilson had revived it in strengthen the jim crow imperative there is a strain of of virulent racism that runs through progressive. American thought that is rather consistent. And then we're going to see that. Play out as well. Because i would put a biden and a lot of biden's Supporters into that category. That if you listen carefully. It's very patronizing tone. They've they've learned to filter it through political correctness but it is a racism nonetheless. I wanted to ask you so so. Those were the the biggest disasters who from an america. First perspective gives most overrated. Well overrated is. I'm all for the america first perspective. And so those who are overrated are Those who transgress against that perspective. I think most notably barack obama because obama is routinely lionised nowadays It's because of course leftists internationalist socialist. Historians are responsible for most of the list It's funny when i started to research this book. I was surprised to see that a lot of surveys that rate the president's on the basis of whether how good they were in office put obama near the top even though Obviously it's very early to rate in in on any Any just historical scale but simply from an america. First standpoint is wildly overrated. He weakened america politically militarily and economically and. There's no way that he can be anything. But right at the bottom of the president of the united states when you're looking at him from the america first stint point if the cheat were allowed to last and we don't know that it will. How would you expect. Should joe biden ever end up as president. How would you expect him to. Rate among america's presidents from an america first perspective. Well i think that a biden administration or a kamala harris administration or both would end up being One of the worst from an american perspective. Because what it would essentially be would be the third term of barack obama and the revival of a lot of the policies that obama instituted and that trump reverse like we would return to the paris climate accords which placed the responsibility for solving this manufactured. Problem climate. change. All on the united states. Not a bit on china or russia and We would re enter the iran nuclear deal which the iranians had used in order to bolster their nuclear program. A lot of people don't realize how bad that deal really is. Oh it's awful robert hall cold with us for just a moment. Robert spencer is our guest. The book is rating america's presidents in america. I look at who is best. Who's overrated and who was an absolute disaster and coming up. We'll talk about president. Donald j trump. The michael berry show cycle varies on the road again. Just not way to get out on road. Fagin music was my friend willie. Nelson's sickest number one as a solo recording artist. It would hit number one in november of nineteen eighty eight and ten years later on this day. November ninth nineteen ninety. The irs would come after willie nelson. They said os sixteen million dollars in back taxes. They would confiscate his assets including master tapes clothing gold records all of it. But how did willie hold onto his favorite guitar. Trigger having sent to maui before the fed's arrived. If you've never seen a photo a willie nelson's beloved trigger his guitar of many many years. It's worth seeing through sweat scratches. Who knows what else it has been. Eroded down to the finis panel imaginable. A thing of beauty. Indeed robert spencer is our guest. The book is entitled rating america's presidents and america. First look at who is best who's overrated. And who wasn't absolute disaster. The book is now available wherever you buy your books. Online or in bookstores came out in september. And of course the question. Where does president trump sold far rate in this list. Well making the effort the very top because he did reverses we were discussing earlier. Excuse me he did reverse a lot of the internationalist and socialist policies of his predecessors he Made moves to get us out of the wars that we are in that have no purpose. No goal no point but just step our resources under. We're what we're doing is essentially solving the problems of other countries while our own infrastructure crumbles and so on and He got the american economy going again. By cutting taxes cutting regulations He strengthened american sovereignty. Also by recognizing jerusalem as the capital of israel which may seem to be a peripheral thing. But it's actually very important because it was in the nineties that presidents. I agreed to do that. And then they postponed it every year because they were afraid that they would be jihad terror attacks if they went ahead with it so the united states was essentially allowing jihad terrorists to set our foreign policy and trump stood up and said no. We're going to do the right thing and he in it in doing so. Excuse me in doing so showed that we were not going to bow to violent intimidation as we had for so long. And that's a very. I think overlooked aspect of the recognition of jerusalem. Israel's capital that We're standing on our own feet again and not allowing ourselves to be pushed around by these terrorists entities. Interesting robert there is a battle for the heart and soul of the are after your name if you're the if you're the candidate not just for president but for every office and when donald trump began running in and using language that has made it into the common parlance the vernacular of the swamp as a way of describing the establishment. What we're seeing with. Joe biden trying to take the reins of the presidency Bolstered by the press and talking about bringing back to the mitt romney's for health and human services and the dick cheney's as foreign policy adviser in and the forever wars in these sorts of things is a republican party. That is not an america first. And what i think. Trump did The that that reframed the discussion in built this whole new coalition was to suggest. Hey we don't have to be ashamed to do whatever other country does. And that is make policies that are first and foremost good for our country. How unique was that. In the in the when you look at the continuum of presidents in the modern era especially that he would do that. Trump is the first president since reagan to do that. And so that's thirty years of internationalist presidents from both parties who Made it into a. Who made the america. First idea into something that presidents shunned and rejected explicitly as a matter of fact when trump started to say that he was going to put america first back in his Twenty sixteen campaign william kristol the famous neoconservative writer. The never trumper said he was ashamed to hear of an american president. Say america first now. There's no doubt that there were some people Who have bad associations who used the phrase in the past but what president trump is meant by. It is that he tries to strengthen america politically militarily and economically and the that anybody could be against that. Just so south thorough. The propaganda has been over the last thirty years. Where do you see the movement whether donald trump has a second term or not which still remains to be seen. where do you see the movement post. donald trump. whenever that day comes is there of a movement is their leadership for that movement. Could we recruit and develop leadership for that. Yeah i'm actually substantially encouraged Even if this is stolen away from him now the Movement is not gonna go away. Seventy million americans voted for him a substantially larger number of minority. Voters voted for him then. Did in two thousand sixteen or previously and a new coalition is forming in the united states. That is not going to go quietly. And so if the democrats stink that they're going to be able to push their whole totalitarian socialist agenda on the united states at this point. I think they're going to have a rocky for years Now the big problem that we face of course is that if they do steal this one. It's going to be easier for them to steal the next one because of course they're not going to submit to election reform. That would work against the way that they get into power. And we have to address that you have to victoria. Samat or america's over as a free republic. I think you're absolutely right. I think you're absolutely right robert spencer. Fantastic look forward to reading the book. Come back and join us anytime. Good sir call me anytime. Thank you as we close the show. I'm in better spirits. Today wasn't on friday. Mostly because i was exhausted after the week. I started last week believing that we were going to win the election and that donald trump was born to have another four years and everything that goes with it. I ended the week believing that we won the election but that it was stolen from us. I still haven't abiding belief of that. I've not come to the conclusion. That joe biden is going to be our president yet and i don't know any man alive who would fight the way. Donald trump will to ensure that every single vote is counted. And i can't imagine anybody who wouldn't share in the belief that we should make sure that every single vote is counted. And so that's where we are and that's where we will continue to be for some time. I know that doesn't give closure but sometimes you have to fight for what you believe. It'd be easier to throw in the towel. This president i'm happy to say is not going to do that. I sure. Do love hearing from you michael berry. Show dot com michael berry. Show dot com. Send me an email assistant prince amount. I do read them all. I don't respond to them all and while you're there you can buy your michael berry. Show gear. we sure appreciate many league in today's meditation with the few sipping exercises to remind us a little treat can go a long way so pick up your mcafee. Iced coffees close. Your eyes and deep sabin and deep satisfaction out a treat retreat at mcdonald's right now mcafee iced coffee and any size and any flavor for just ninety nine cents until eleven. Am price of participation may vary.

michael berry california donald trump gavin newsom joe biden biden legislature california legislature houston sixty two years Two three dollar texas comma harris fifty six percent trump roku thirty five years democrat coalition mr trump star county
A Midnight Kiss from Chester Lockhart

Scheananigans with Scheana Shay

1:02:03 hr | 1 year ago

A Midnight Kiss from Chester Lockhart

"Thank you for listening to this. podcast one production available on Apple podcasts. And podcast one from podcast one and the Voice of the American people welcome to the boxer pot. Kings were Nicole and Barbara Boxer by well. Welcome to the boxer. podcast Ladies and gentlemen this is your co host Nicole. And this is your other one Barbara Barbara and today. We're so happy you've joined us for this. Nobody is above the law podcast. That's something I just made up In in honor of the move on demonstrations that are planned for the day before the House Chamber votes on impeachment impeachment. I'm dedicating this show too. You demonstrator yeah and it's critical that people show up in their communities even if it's a smaller community to make the point that we cannot have a president who is you say. Hey acts as if he's above the law because that's not what our country's about that's right and if you if you like me you have opened up the paper today it was just a it's been there's just so much news. It's hard to keep track of all of it but I think one thing we wanNA flag for you. Who is that tonight? The House judiciary panel is poised to begin debating the articles of impeachment that are brought against Donald Trump. I'm thank you. Yeah and that's going to be an open hearing so I'm hoping C.. Span's going to be airing. Not Oh my goodness. I think there's going to be a very widespread. Tell telecast of this and will they how long will they have to debate it before they vote as long as the chairman wants. Oh boy about you know this is. This is the rules. The chairman makes the rules. If someone doesn't like it they can vote to overturn it. I spent ten years in the house. US There's four hundred and thirty five people there so it's much more rigid set of rules than you find in the Senate because you can imagine the havoc if there were no rules and if you go on forever because they would have the equivalent of a filibuster so once the chairman feels everybody's had a chance danced to offer amendments. Try to table things. He'll call for a vote. Okay well I think this is just a big day in American history and you can be a part of it when you Get involved in using your voice in whatever way that means you know. Now we see a lot of people on twitter using their voice but we think it's important that you join in the demonstrations that are going on across the country so people can see you that they see that you care not just going in you know. Twitter can be mom so divisive something troll comes back and says something else everyone screaming and yelling. If one more person writes that I need to change my diaper and going to the nursing home. I'm going to really have a nervous break. This is this is just from her. Children is while it's not for my own children. CUT It out but in all society it is. It is brutal by the way nick. You know how move on got its name move on right Tommy. All right it got its name. Because of the Clinton impeachment there were so many people who thought what Clinton did was wrong wrong wrong. Even some people said it was immoral. But it didn't rise to the level of high crimes and misdemeanor misdemeanors. It didn't fit what the founders had in mind when they said impeach president because he's he's endangering our country so this group was formed. They called move on move on from impeachment. So what I think is so intriguing. s all these years later the group that formed because they felt impeachment shouldn't be abused now knows that this this is very different and this is endangering national security. This is abusing the power of the presidency. This is obstructing Congress. Let alone justice yes this weekend into it but it's interesting that move on was founded because in the last impeachment. They thought that was wrong and they obviously think this is what the founders had in mind. Yeah well I mean there's just a lot to cover here and I notice that a couple of weeks ago you kinda. They called me out on Thanksgiving like for down known this important. I want to acknowledge something that the thing you called me out on was I was despairing over just that all the only thing that I had to hang my hat on the elections in twenty twenty because at at this point there has not been any fortification of our election systems We haven't fortified ourself against inter- international interference. You see Donald trump learning the playbook again and this time he has a Department of Justice on his side and and so I was like no. No you know I. I'm not despairing but you know maybe I was and so I just want to admit that it's just over something thing different and it's this deep seated feeling that although everyone has to take this election mysterious they ever have there must be more and so. That's what I think this move on. Rally Day is GonNa put us in that head space and and I I would call it. We all have to get out of our homes. Get off twitter and get down to the town square the real town square. Not The virtual one and our bodies out there and shows that there's millions of us that believe there's been an abuse of power and we don't have to live in fear like I've been feeling that it you know what I mean I do and I but I felt terrible after that because I know that you were trying to say something you were. I'm trying to say exactly what you said. Now that you that you were losing confidence in our system in our electoral system and that is a scary thing I would I would want to say is this. I mean you're not wrong okay But the one thing I will say is our electoral system as you know. Nick Nick is not centralized it's county by county by county. And so there are ways even without the grim reaper. Mitch McConnell who's holding up all these bills it makes me ill again. We get into every week and I know it's repetitive. Going there that there are steps chiefs being taken locally but there is no doubt about this and what I'm about to say I'm not happy that I'm about to say it but we need to as you've been alluding to come out not only for these events to show our support for holding this president accountable but we've got to get people to the polls in such large numbers that even these cheaters can't overwhelm US enemy net and and I believe that and I believe there are examples of close races that we lost because cheating voter suppression. Something you're working on professionally. I anyway. I'm going going on zoning. No this is awesome and the question. Is You know this is a big existential question. And I'm not. I don't think you necessarily have the answer today. But with bill bar at the top of the Justice Department with their rejection of the latest. idee report investigating investigating I guess the the emanation the beginning of This whole road that led us straight to Putin and election interference. The rejection rejection of that bill bar has a tremendous amount of power as the chief law enforcement officer in our country and he can say a lot of things they can. They can interfere. Can they not with an upcoming election action in ways that we may not be able to foresee will my response to it is and it's my responses. This is because we have decentralized elections and the people in charge our local people unless they are part of a grand ran conspiracy with bar. Who the hell knows? Maybe some are you. Can't you can't do that. Damage so much damage but what he can do is sit back and do nothing about voter suppression and do nothing about people who are cheaters. So of course. This is a horror story for us. Bill Bar is a horror story. The only good thing is he hasn't fooled anybody. I mean everybody from the press. Press to everybody else knows he's there handpicked. You know golden boy was you would say the cone the Roy Cohn Yeah League eighties not as obnoxious but he is. You know although I think he is and it's whole says it knows very soft way. He's a disaster. You and your Dad said to to me the other day and you know he doesn't really pine that much. He watches me and he watches you and he he roses is boy. You guys get excited about everything. He turned turned to me and said they OUGHTA impeach him. Well that's exactly where I was going and it's so funny because what's difficult is you want you know and this is is sort of you know coming from the Nancy Pelosi playbook which is let's focus on these two articles of impeachment. They're very focused. They're very narrow. We know. I mean trump openly admitted to to what he had done He openly admitted in as well of inviting Russia to interfere in the election to two. I hope you find the emails And there's so much abuse going on that ink including with Bill Bar which is why my dad says we should impeach the guy so many fronts so many fires. There's you know it's difficult and as I looked when I was preparing to do the podcast today and I look down the list of the things that I have you know. One is more or heartbreaking than the next. What's in the news? What's at stake? What we have to do and I found myself last night? Just like W T.F. Yeah Yeah Yeah. We were in truth texting each other will pretty late last night. Can I just give a teeny teeny weeny bit of good news. That I just asleep on my from my political action committee. The latest poll from Arizona Shows Kelly Mark Kelly. The Democrat beating Martha mcsally in Arizona by three points which is a turn because in the last poll she was up by few fan. So that's like a six point turnaround and at the end of the day and I know it's I say a lot. There's only one way in our government because we really are republic meaning we elect people. We don't have direct initiatives except in our states. But we don't have that we don't have votes of confidence you step. We do have the impeachment process and we know we know oh they have to impeach him and we know unless something changes. He's going to be there. The election is where it's at. And and and McConnell who is you know trump's guy McConnell's wife is in the cabinet. I don't understand how he keeps voting on transportation tation since she's the transportation secretary. This is it for us. These Senate races are are so critical and that one in Arizona is so do important. Yeah I just mentioned. I hope our people will help. Mark Kelly go up to find his web page. Donate two dollars six dollars. Yeah Twenty one hundred A thousand whenever you can't what we can't reiterate enough how important twenty twenty years not just to unseat Donald Trump which is obviously to me me the most important thing just logically speaking but is to flip the Senate and I really think we can do that. We have fantastic candidates and and it will be To start to undo some of this damage from you know the immigration policies. The kids Dying in these detention centers on the border the cruelty of the policies. You know even A group of doctors had gone down to the border to administer flu shots. They were going to do it for free They had one hundred doses of flu vaccine. And the border patrol not an operative but that detention Chin Eight is department of Homeland. Security right would not allow the doctors in. They were turned away with their bags their medical bags six and the cruelty of that and again. This is in light of the fact that the foreign minister of Russia walked through through the front door of the White House yesterday with his entourage into the Oval Office for private meeting. With president trump. We have no knowledge of what was really sad. You know you told me that. Trump made a statement that they talked about elections security which in fact is untrue. So we're not going to be the Russians not never mentioned it. It's A. He said he said situation. Who Do you believe Sent in July. I sent you this article that I saw last night. That macron chrome Emmanuel macron the president of France issued a statement saying to his European counterparts. We're going to have to have a European army to defend ourselves against the the Russians and the US. Nick is that right. What was in the independent which is a pretty solid paper and I think he was just saying we can see joking? No what he's saying is we we. I mean you have to admit comes from a pretty solid place. He saying we can't rely upon the old alliances necessarily certainly not. It's nothing more true than that you know you're buying it's all this. It's all trump trump trump trump trump and follow the money. We know it Ju to follow the money you know. You've you've talked to me up for so long about these oligarchs and you know when trump he's it bankrupted his company so many times he couldn't get alone. Follow the money wisely so nice to Putin. I know I said it wrong on purpose. Why is he so so nice to Saudi Arabia Prince? And you know we're going to talk about that too going on that. The Nation we know has produced the most terrifying terrorists every almost every single one of the hijackers who brought down those planes were Saudis and they got out of the country. I can't help but think to myself. And then you had Kashogi and now you have this killing at the base in Florida. It wasn't Florida right. It was Pensacola Pensacola. And so I keep saying to myself because they know a little bit about Saudi culture. They wink wink. Nod Nod to the terrorists over there to the real mm to the people who really hate the West. They wink wink nod nod so these things happen. Nobody's really held accountable accountable. And it just goes on and remember what underlines this unholy alliance between Russia America and Saudi Arabia at its. It's tip the arrest we can't see is a carbon based economy the the economy of gas of oil Dirty tree there's not a lot left. I mean you know in ge