20 Episode results for "Western Michigan University"

Ep. 8: Are You Listening? (Eureka's Sounds of Science)

Sounds of Science

04:36 min | 2 years ago

Ep. 8: Are You Listening? (Eureka's Sounds of Science)

"Hello again. I'm Mary Parker. And welcome to this episode of Eureka sounds of science. Spoke with Rachel tap. Senior study director of neuro behavioral sciences at Charles rivers, Madeline Michigan site, Rachel is working towards her PHD at western Michigan university where she is focusing on inner ear biology her expertise at Charles river is the possible Oto toxic of new drugs, meaning the possible harmful side effects of drugs on the tissues of the inner ear. I see what attack city is very important that drugged about to have a good understanding of the safety of your test material or compound when you're ministering to the ear typically, it's important that we understand compound may cause I wanna talk somebody. So that we can try to mediate that by reducing those level or binding alternate treatments. There would be that would not cause adverse changes in hearing, visitor puncture. Affects of Texas city can range from tonight us to hearing loss, and these affects can sometimes be permanent despite the dangerous to patients Rachel argues that the FDA does not have sufficient regulations to prevent Oto toxic drugs from going to market guide. Ryan are quite murky around on his safety. There is a guidance of an issue for the voltage around the ministration for that are either being re permits for intended for administration areas in the body problematic. Parts are you on the tissue and stuff? Miss for hearing is not easily added to standard protocol or profile Saudi. So you end up having had digital core gets or you just end up looking at nutty. Based on our own enquiries, Rachel thinks that the FDA will it industries guide future additions and modifications to tuck city testing she believes that this gives Charles river the opportunity to drive the industry towards stricter testing standards. In my professional opinion, drug developer. I want to emphasize that they understand the class of compound that they're working and the Mitchell for there are many occasions there, I think easy to find on Google that help to define where you actually could have and talk the kids and knows gazes at least entertain the idea that maybe it's something you should be testing for Rachel mentioned that in the past some drugs have been found to have ODA toxic effects, only after they were put on the market in some of these cases like with the antibacterial Munich lake asides, the drug was the only option to treat a life threatening condition. If a new drug to enter the market with unknown ODA toxic effects that could have been prevented drug companies could open themselves up to be liable to those patients for now. She recommends it patients consult their doctors if they are worried about possible auto talks. Excite affects from any new treatments. If they do experience any hearing loss, they should not only consult their doctor. But also find out how to report their symptoms to the manufacturer one of the things kind of a lot of time when you have an average from compound the opportunity is there to provide that town too that you just see into the supplier manufacture these drugs that they can look into. They learn your populations of people when you do when things go to market, you may find out things that you had no clue we're going to happen. So it's important that we do give that feedback as we're going. Thank you for listening to this episode of Eurico sounds of science.

Rachel Charles river Mary Parker FDA ODA western Michigan university Texas Senior study director Ryan Madeline Michigan Google developer Mitchell Munich lake
Survivor Story - Abi's Story of Surviving Sexual Assault

I'm Not In An Abusive Relationship

21:04 min | 2 years ago

Survivor Story - Abi's Story of Surviving Sexual Assault

"Thank you for joining us today. And welcome to another episode of I'm not in an abusive relationship today. We have a survivor story Abby who has survived sexual assault. She was talking with rose Ludwig who is the executive director of Dessus, and this is Hurson. Hello. This is rose Ludwig with domestic and sexual abuse services. I'm here with abbey today and Evie survivor of sexual assault and would like to share her story with us. Hello, abby. Hello. Why? Did you want to share your story with us today? Just so it is brought the attention of more people not so much my story, but sexual assault victims in general, and can you tell me about your personal experience with sexual assault. I have a kind of two instances that I believe shaped my life. And who I am today. I was sexually assaulted as a child by a right up relative female babysitter. And that just kind of didn't really surface in my life until I was older because I didn't know what sexual assault was or what child molestation was and did not bring that to the attention of my family until quite recently. And in the second time was I was a freshman in college and studying with a classmate that had been paired up with and. I honestly can't remember his name, which is sad. But also happy for me as well. And I did not tell anyone about that at the time either. So when you were a child you kept that a secret for many many years, I would say I wasn't necessarily keeping it a secret. It was more along the lines of I didn't know it was wrong. I didn't know that adults shouldn't be doing that not necessarily adult. She was she was in her teens, but not realizing that it was something that was wrong or wasn't supposed to be happening. Yeah. Okay, abby. So if you feel comfortable would you share with us a little bit about your experiences as child? On. So I believe I was around the age of I can't remember for sure between ages of foreign six. My. Parents had just gotten divorced, and I was living with my mother who hired a family member of my fathers to babysit us. I don't know how often or how many times that person babies at us. But I remember specifically one time I was there, and she was putting down for a nap. And I just remember hearing my is on the outside of the wall of the other side of the wall. They were trying to give you like my watch or something like that. And she just kept saying that I was sleep. But I was clearly awake. And she sexually assaulted me. And that is the only instance that I can remember from that victimization. And like I said earlier, I didn't realize that was something that was wrong. And I don't think that I'm told anyone in Ryan tire life until I was. Seventeen or eighteen years old? I told my boyfriend at the time, and he basically told me to keep it a secret it had been so long that he didn't want me to traumatize my family members or to bring up even the emotions in myself again and Intel anyone and when him, and I broke up that kind of almost made it feel like I was allowed to tell my story and was not encouraged to tell my story until I had a new boyfriend who was more empathetic sympathetic with me and said that it would probably help me to talk about it or to help. My mother understand who I was at a child. Why I was the way I was and. It was weird. When I went to go, tell her for the first time, she is kind of looked at me and almost with confusion because she felt like she knew the whole time. But didn't want to bring it up to me in order to trigger me or to upset me if it didn't actually happen. So she had questioned it. And. That's really it. After I told my mother, I was more comfortable talking about it with other people. I do know at one point. My father. He told me to not talk about it because it was from the past and it's upsetting people. When it doesn't matter narrow, and that female, relative didn't know what she was doing. She was just a child as well. But she was old enough to babysit me in my two older brothers. So she should've known to not do that children. And I have not spoken to that person. Since I was a kid. We do not get together as families or do not see her. I know that she's. I believe married and has children of her own. Now message once on Facebook just simply stating that I forgive her. And it's made me who I am today. In response from that. And I think that I'm happier that I didn't get a response because it probably would have hurt to hear from her. So. You said that when you were a child when you finally did tell your mom you wanted her to understand who you were as a child. Can you tell us how that impacted you in your? In your raising. And how you grew into an adult like how what kind of impact that had on you. Oh, yeah. I. I don't really know how much it affected me the child just because I didn't understand that. Maybe those were some of the reasons of why I was doing things, but. I would say that. Due to this potentially was one of the reasons of why I was so sexually active at such a young age and not understanding. Even as a child what good touch bad touch was. I remember. I don't know. How will I was? But there was a class where we have to take a red crayon and a green crowd and color, the parts of the body that were okay to touch in Warren. I don't care to touch, and then we also had to color a different picture stating where we had been touched in. Remember, I colored in the with the red marker. Private areas. And my father was like, oh, no you did that wrong in he helped me switch it. So that it didn't look like I had been touched in bad places. He did not think that I had been touched that places, but he thought that I was doing assignment wrong. And so I remember he helped me change that. And I feel like that was kind of like me subconsciously telling people or trying to tell people, but even from that little teaching that I had as a kid I did not realize that that was wrong. But other than that. Can't really. Tell you exactly what I what was different in mind Sheild hood on. I will say that reflecting back. Now, I think if I had realized that that was wrong. My life would have been different. But I'm kind of glad I didn't have to go through my whole life thinking that that was wrong. I think it kind of sheltered me not really in a good way. But I think it helped my childhood mentality. And. It has affected me who I am. Who I am today? I am in a lesbian relationship. And you know, I I had potentially thought about that at different points in my life. But always thought, you know, if I get into relationship with a woman. Then I would kind of make it seem like she was winning like she changed me somehow or something like that. I don't know how exactly out phrase it. But that has run through my mind before did did she make me a lesbian. But no being an adult. Now, knowing what lesbianism is and. Who you love as a person that has nothing to do with childhood experiences. You just you love who love and you don't. Let anything interview or that? So you would say that these experiences somewhat suppressed who you were as an individual and expressing yourself as an individual. I believe so I mean, I'm twenty four years old and. Was not in my first and only Letheren relationship until I was twenty two years old and. So I think. I think it did kind of suppress like I dunno not feelings towards the same sex. But just thinking back to myself like if I get into lesbian relationship or find look at a woman that way that it almost seems like what she did to his child wasn't wrong. But. I'm sorry, Abby that you had to experience that as a child. So then you moved into your young adult life, and then you had another tragic experience while you're in college. Yes. So my freshman year of college I was in a class called first year experience. And we were partnered up into groups, and it was mean this other gentleman, and we were studying. Knock studying, but creating a presentation for the class at on understanding western Michigan university. We were in the dormitory complex, and they have little rooms that you could rent out to study. So it had like it was a private room had couches tables and chairs everything you'd need to kind of just seclude yourself and study without any distractions. So we Rhames out one of those rooms and. I don't even know what happened that that experience is extremely fuzzy in my mind, I just I kind of remember it almost felt like waking up, but I wasn't asleep. But I remember kind of coming to an realizing what was happening and at that point. It was over we him, and I both then went to my dorm room to pick up. My roommate in order to get on the bus to go to class end. I remember I was I was crying in the bathroom and she asked if something was wrong. I said, no. And then we got on the bus the three of us together went to class, and that was towards the end of the semester. I finished off the class never said anything to anyone and kind of just kept socializing with this person. Because. I thought that. It was just a one time thing and. Didn't mean anything mainly because I didn't remember somebody just kept going along with it. Like, he was my friend and. That kind of change too. I was are know that my my partner at the time my boyfriend at the time noticed some changes in me that I didn't see in myself, and he actually ended up leaving me and. I mean, we we're broken up for six months got back together. And we were in a fight one day about how I had changed in how I've been changing since. And I just remember screaming at the top of my lungs at him that I had been raped at the time that he broke up with me. And he kind of looked at me. And he said that he didn't believe me. And that he thought I was cheating. And. We kind of left it at that. For a couple years. Actually, I had left western Michigan university. After that experience attended countless zoo valley community college. Did you change colleges because you were trying to avoid your assailant or you just needed a change of? You needed a change in your life? Or I think it was a combination. Like a lot of freshmen college students. I was not doing very good in my classes, not very walnut classes, and I wanted to change majors and also get out of that school to inevitably avoid him. When it kind of again of what had happened once my boyfriend had broken up with me. I realized that. Oh, wow. A lot has changed. So I left western Michigan university went to count as valley community college. And. Just finished up my associate's degree there. And while I was in a family violence class for my social work degree, the YWCA of Kalamazoo came to my school and gave a presentation in. That was my first introduction to. Sexual assault services people that could help him. So when you learned that service, did you reach out and get some assistance with that to be able to process through navigate that those emotions and those feelings. It had been probably two years after my freshman year assault. And so I thought that I was the talk of the world I was healed in time heals all wounds, everything like that. And so why immediately I filled out mine. Paperwork to become a volunteer right away with them. I think that day in that was in April, and I went through their volunteer training, which would have made me a sexual assault, supportive, volunteer. So when a person is sexually assaulted, they would go to the Y, and I would be there to kind of be there. Familiarity face because I see so many doctors AC Sony counselors social workers are will be there. Ask some questions to help prepare the nurse to hold their hand. And like I said to be familiar face. So I thought that that would also help me process at the same time. And that really did open up my eyes to the sexual assault services world, and I had volunteered with them from two thousand sixteen until just recently to those two thousand fifteen until just recently. So. Abby. I appreciate you sharing your story. And I'm glad that you were able to process that what do you want sexual assault victims to know? I think I want sexual assault victims to know, what everyone wants them to know is that they're not alone. There are people that can help them through this process. It's. You want to help heal yourself at your own pace. And so not you don't have to always straight jump into counseling services and everything like that. Obviously it would help, but you have to be at a good point in your life as well. So that everything is at your own pace, and you're able to heal what you want to heal. If that makes any a dodgers at the advice, you would give them or do you have further advice that you would give them? Advice is open up to someone they trust. You should always have someone in your life. No matter what the can trust with information in order to help you process through even just everyday life. There should be someone like that in your life and buy yes. Open up to them seek out services when you feel necessary and just take care of yourself. Learn about services in your area before he end because the the statistics are so very high. It's just nice to know. What resources you have to fall back on? I think one of the things we learned here through your story today is that it's so very important to believe survivors. It sounds like in both of your situations. You had difficulty with people believing that this happened to you when you finally did share that. So it is really important that those of us who hear these things, and if we are that trusted confidante or that individual that somebody comes to that we believe survivors, we always have to believe survivors. Thank you for listening to. I'm not in an abusive relationship, if these stories resonate with you, and you need help, please. Visit our website D A S S dot org. That's M. I dot org or call our hotline at eight hundred eighty two eight two zero two three we are here to walk alongside of you know, someone who might benefit from our show. Please share social media Email simply telling someone about it all help us spread the word. To help us to combat domestic and sexual violence. He also, welcome financial, and volunteer support. That information is our website. Thank you to the staff volunteers and board of directors and domestic and sexual abuse services. His podcast is produced with the help of a committee of dedicated advocates. Thank you to WBZ T radio in Sturgis Michigan for the use of their studio. This has been a podcast about surviving domestic and sexual violence and a production of domestic and sexual abuse services of Michigan.

assault Abby Michigan university rose Ludwig Evie Intel Facebook Hurson Dessus executive director Michigan western Michigan university Ryan Kalamazoo Sturgis Michigan dodgers Warren Letheren zoo valley community college
How Human Trafficking and Domestic Violence Intersect

I'm Not In An Abusive Relationship

19:41 min | 1 year ago

How Human Trafficking and Domestic Violence Intersect

"I don't need help. I'm not an abusive relationship. This is just how it is for us. It's a lie. We tell ourselves one that many in abusive relationships repeats until they believe it. But there's hope welcome to. I'm not in an abusive relationship. A podcast about surviving domestic and sexual violence. This show is about hope. You will hear from survivors of abuse. Their stories may sound familiar. They even inspire hope. Our goal is to connect with others in these toxic relationships to offer that hope and was supporters of our mission. Anyone willing to help get rid of abuse and our culture. We also talk with experts in the field from the officers in the front lines of domestic abuse calls to the therapist and advocates helping survivors navigate. This complicated road of recover. If you're in need of help. Please visit our website or call our twenty four seven hotline eight Hundred Eight two eight two zero two three and at this is an emergency and you need help immediately. Please call nine one one. Welcome to I'm not in an abusive relationship with your host. Claudia Paul's welcome once again to. I am not in an abusive relationship. The last time we were all together we were talking about human trafficking and the prevalence of human trafficking. And we have read. O'brien with again today. Who is an intern at day? Says she is Working on her master's degree in social work at Western Michigan University and welcome once again Rita And also joining us today as Elizabeth Alderson. Who is a master social worker and Therapist for Davis and we'RE GOING TO Talk a bit more about human trafficking but also about domestic violence and sexual assault and the similarities and the differences between Three so I'm not sure who's going to start but come on with a little bit about you. Know what is domestic violence in what is sexual assault just as as a as a reminder okay so you know the we know a lot of times that domestic violence is physical abuse. Domestic violence also will would include some sexual assault or sexual abuse as part of that relationship. Dynamic it would include emotional abuse verbal abuse Financial or economic. Abused like what you wanted to use Stocking and it could also include like use of technology to either technological abuse or like cyber stalking. Nobody kind of think of that Could be like watching your location all the time on your phone through different apps but it also could be like that constant like taxed. Where are you what are you doing? Where are you now? What are you doing who you're talking to online? I need your facebook password and your instagram password. And all that stuff. 'cause I need to double check who you're having conversations with That kind of like cyber stockings. Which could be domestic meaning in their home but it could also be with friends and acquaintances people. They know at school or work or things like that as well. So yeah because that's the hard part about how we define domestic violence because really on a criminal level in the state of Michigan domestic violence as any violence. That happens within your home. That's your domestic dwelling. We view domestic violence as intimate partner violence. And so it's it's violence that happens in intimate partner relationship. Even if you live separately you could live across state lines and in different cities. But if you're in a romantic relationship or you have been in a round take relationship with that person before. Then we consider it either domestic violence or intimate partner right violent right so it. It's much more broad and vague at times and as the world of hose and changes it becomes more becomes more than if we were back in the seventies. You know we wouldn't have. We would have a different definition of technological abuse. Right it would be it would be always being on your party line to hear the conversations that you were having right. You Laugh. When I first moved here I had a party line and many houses did ya and so like that would've been like abusive tech necessary Back even before cell phones were as they are now but when we had car phone car you know. People could misuse that as technological abuse or using technology and abusive ways but as technology changes and the Internet is a great helper. But also hinderer in this way because now we have more access to people than we've ever had absolutely and so that's that kind of the broadening of domestic violence for us and how it changes over time and how our world really changes that you think of online banking. I can look on my phone and see how much money you spent and then I can text you and call you and be like where were you just now at Deloitte? Why'd you spend that much money? And Yeah there's all those pieces of it to right. Oh my gosh so that would yeah. Okay stocking and you're going to have to physically leave your couch. No not anymore Yeah that's the domestic violence and sexual assault is a reminder would be Any any forced sexual actions that someone didn't want to perform so it could include rape. It could include unwanted. Just physical touching. It could include penetration It could include above even the clothing. You know we've talked about it before I mean you. You know an inappropriate grab from across the road as they're walking passive sexual assault you uncomfortable. We've talked about consent before. Were you able to give consent so it's kind of sexual around? That could be a tent attempted rape. Maybe there's not full completion or penetration. But it's still the attempt. Was there like what we talked about. so long ago that I think about it Marital rape and so that just because you're married to someone or in a long standing. You know romantic relationship with someone that that relation just being in that relationship doesn't give future consent to sexual activities so again abroad statement kind of what is sexual assault and then how are how are they all tied together with human trafficking and domestic violence and sexual assault but you kind of think of them as all tied together but there are some specifics to look out for. This is Rita and I think the things that tie it together would be when you add in human trafficking to it. It involves the act of recruiting transporting transferring harboring or receiving a person through use of force fraud or coercion or in which the person induced to perform the act under eighteen years old. The sex that can be exchanged for anything of value including food shelter or money. Anyone can be a victim of human trafficking. Anyone can be a trafficker so when you add that to sexual assault and domestic violence it can kind of muddy the waters but all of it income you add to it with force fraud incursion. So we look at like force so one of the definitions or clinicians of force that read a gave before is is the foreseen some like forcing someone to use drugs so then they comply to the actions that you want them to do right. Because then they're inhibit in habilitated or they're under the influence and so they're easier to get them to do what you want right so something to drink or yeah and so that's part of the force definition of human trafficking but we would consider that a part of sexual assault to right. You didn't have the ability to consent for it and if you were relationship with that person that would be domestic violence too. So that's a situation in which you know. Possibly one action could be part of all three of those things. That's Kinda like that. Overlap piece right. You know another great example that Really gave about what is force. Is the kidnapping piece. You know so. Some human trafficking victims are kidnapped. Well some survivors of domestic violence are held without. You know without being able to leave right so hard that isolation bed or or part of the threat of if you don't do what I want you to do. I'm going to take the children take whatever and that's a great one to as threats. We know that there are threats and all three so that's a huge overlap of them as well what's I think the important piece to take away of the overlap between all three. Is that outside of like this conversation of what is human trafficking? How is it different? How is it the same of sexual abuse and Domestic Violence? Is that human trafficking? Is The buzz word right now? Throughout the nation we're really talking about. What is human trafficking? And we've been more made more aware of it but when we look at human trafficking through the lens of domestic and sexual violence and what we've learned that over the years is that we've we already know a lot about human trafficking. This is just a new term that we've been able to integrate and so Knowing that there are still resources out there that agencies the you know like ACIS and other agencies that have been working in domestic and sexual violence for years and for decades that that they too are resources for human trafficking as well. They might not specialize in human trafficking. They might have a human trafficking program but they're working with survivors of human trafficking weather. They throw it on a billboard or not so that there are you know so many resources and so many things out there For survivors when they you know when they kind of realize what human trafficking is or maybe that buzzword and how they relate it into a relationship they've already been maybe it was part of their past twenty years ago and they just weren't able to label it this way until now well and you were talking earlier about you know back in the seventies or you know back in the olden days back before social media so Would you say that human trafficking has increased at the same time? Social media has increased. I would say this is Rita that Social Media makes it so much easier to traffic people because it's so easy to get a hold of and most of our kids have some access to it whether it be the library. You're on their phone or wherever it may be so. I almost feel like yeah. It has increased. I mean they may have gotten rid of craigslist and backpage. But there's a million other ways for people to be social media found out in meet up with people And I think something that just came to mind this moment that we haven't yet talked about with this human trafficking in kids is. We've talked about APPs on their on their phones and stuff but also the way that teenagers now game. That's different than before. So even you know when I was growing up we had a playstation. But you you just you put the CD you put the cartridge or whatever version of it was in there and you played the game. We lived in your living room. Yeah and you could play with the people radically present wherever you well. That's not how you play anymore. So you have all these people across the world that you played with look at fortnight and how that blew up. And there's there's people that they have gaming conferences people come from all over the world and I play this game and they do stuff and they have the back chat you know. They've got the headphones now and a little microphone and they spend money and they make money. But that's a new way to recruit people. I mean if you're playing a video game with somebody you know for six hours every day when they get home from school until their parents tell them to go to bed and they say it's just johnny down the street that playing with ms it really johnny down the street so not saying that you know social media's causing this or the other way around I mean obviously they just both now exist at the same time but So people meet each other online or they are an online presence or the form a relationship and then how does that morph into this human trafficking? Or you know whether it's a family relationship or whatever it is so there's connections between them on power and control to assault. Someone can be sexual assault. Domestic violence and human trafficking trafficking involves multiple people. Not a single single abuser. Unwanted sexual touching can lead to sexual assault domestic violence and human trafficking incest sexual intercourse or sexual intrusion between family members. Families can exploit their own children after sexually abusing them and grooming them to become trafficked or domestic violence or you sound like even in their own home if they bring someone else into the home and that child is forced into sexual things. They don't want to participate correct and it can also be apparent of Mama. Dan Trafficking their own children to support their drug habit. Or whatever other habits they might have. Wow so any unwind. Recruiter sexual contact are all three. However with trafficking traffickers do not have an intimate relationship with the victim as in domestic violence and tactics used by traffickers is similar to domestic violence perpetrators in both domestic violence and human trafficking abusers use `isolation physical and emotional violence sexual abuse and exploitation financial abuse threats to harm family members. They'll use the children to manipulate and control them. Withholding Food Sleep. Medical care and using drugs is a way to coerce them to stay either domestic violence or a human trafficking situation. Oh boy so if you are listening to us today and you feel that you are in a situation like this or that you know someone who is or that you think. What does your family situation or domestic situation could be heading this way. What tools I mean what? What can victims do to stop this or to prevent it from happening well? Days has has a twenty four hour hotline crisis number eight hundred eight two eight two zero two three and shelter services number and the staff very well trained to know who he is human traffic and what domestic violence and sexual abuse is so days is very supportive and helping a person get help so that they can heal and move on with what's happening in their lives so a social media being so prevalent to to cause it okay. Eight hundred eight two eight two zero two three. It can be the first area release as well. The first step to help can also be that phone that is creating or not creating but letting the problem continue. Yes that's correct for also really fortunate in southwest Michigan to have the Ywca of Kalamazoo and so they actually a separate shelter from their domestic violence sexual assault shelter for human trafficking survivors like only exclusively and so. It's really wonderful about that. Program is so they've created this whole program around it a shelter just for human trafficking staff that work only in this human trafficking field obviously understanding the overlap that we've kind of talked about but really focused in on that. There are specific services that these clients are going to need and that likely survivors of human trafficking have been in human trafficking for quite some time as children as children. Yeah I mean I've I've Gonda presentations of survivors. The wise brought them in of people that are doing work now around the nation to to gain awareness and stuff about human trafficking that yeah. It started when they were teenagers. They didn't get out of human traffic until they were forty so a short time. Stay in shelter isn't isn't really going to provide them with the necessary skills and resources that they need to combat even to feel safe. Yeah thirty and forty years of of living in this life and so the Y. in Kalamazoo has a wonderful program. We share a lot of Clients back and forth with them and will work really exclusively with them. Just because of the knowledge that they know and so they're a great resource and their number is two six nine three four five five five nine five so that's a Kalamazoo I'm contact and of course if someone called you know the national hotline they're going to get our local Yup hell. We're going to get the why they're going to get. I don't know if they would get us on there. Though the Wi- I know is listed on there another resources calling that again local to Michigan. The two one one information they would those resources as nine one one. Everybody remembers that number. Nine one one and you'll get help. Yes and I know there On a national level. They're working on short number like that for human trafficking so as we kind of seen those pop up all across right to. Yeah so we can have this information. Kind of out there and so we'll obviously. The first step is realization of the problem. And what's happening? But it's good to see community agencies and community members joining together to to look at the problem and prevention and healing going forth from there and there are really Another resource is looking in your local area for a human trafficking task force. So we've also seen those kind of come about in communities in Kalamazoo has a very active one And so kind of finding those local resources Or if it's a passion of your starting what in your local area or working with an agency to start one and getting those resources out there so that people know who to contact and where to go from there because you know we always say there is help and there is hope. And we're providing you know people are are coming forward and providing services and so. Let's connect the people who need the services with those services that make them more effective and just to help our survivors out there? Right and basis of courses is leading the pack and so Day Semi Dot. Org at any point in time you can get tons of information off our website and also Eight hundred eight two eight two zero two three. Thank you both so much for this great information and hopefully leading to hope and healing if anyone is listening who who needs these services call now. Thank you for listening to. I'm not in an abusive relationship. These stories resonate with you in you need help. Please visit our website. Da S. A. S. M. I. Dot Org that's basis am I dot org or call our hotline at eight hundred eighty two eight two zero two three? We are here to walk alongside. Have you know someone who might benefit from our show? Please share social media email simply telling someone about it. All help us spread the word help us to combat domestic and sexual violence also welcome financial and volunteer support. That information is our website. Thank to the staff. Volunteers and board of directors a domestic and sexual abuse services is podcast is produced with the help of a committee of dedicated advocates. Thank you W. T. Radio Instruments Michigan for the use of their studio. This is a podcast about surviving domestic and sexual violence and a production of domestic and sexual abuse services of Michigan.

assault Dan Trafficking Rita And Michigan Kalamazoo Western Michigan University Deloitte facebook craigslist Claudia Paul intern rape O'brien partner stalking W. T. Radio Instruments Michig kidnapping
Picking Yourself

Pick the Brain

26:49 min | 1 year ago

Picking Yourself

"Welcome to the pick the brain podcasts where we the brains of the brightest minds in the areas of health self-improvement productivity and kicking ass at life. Hi Jeremy Fisher always alongside my co host Erin out one of the most awesome things about life to me is that no matter how accurately or definitively we take our perceptions of reality to be something when I was downtown I saw a young man rob an older woman and take her purse in broad daylight and he looked at ever since I was a kid I've always had to nagging insecurities about my physical appearance the I was my height I always thought there's always another angle from which things can be seen every perspective every paradigm is open to challenge and all of our familiar ways of hortons of embracing our peculiarities are distinct idiosyncrasies as unique manifestations of beauty most people may have heard that as a bunch of fluff but I really took that in Asia years up until college and one day I went to the lecture and the speaker gave a talk on the power of self love and he talked about the buddy about for a long time I had a conversation with myself I apologize to my body for condemning it and criticizing it and I made a pact with myself too exactly like you and when I saw you I was ready to pull out my phone call the police and confront you but something told me take a closer look double keep him in my peripheral vision as sort of get to a point where I'm about to pass him up to my left he says hey you stop right there and from the distance I see this guy who's crouched over looking at me really intently there was nothing subtle about it he was definitely staring at me and so I'm walking doing things knowing things seemed things going about things all of that can be interrupted at any moment by an experience or by an epiphany that challenged sure you've got the right guy and so I was looking at you staring and I thought to myself well this guys kind of short but he still looks the I mean who would have thought the very attributes that I used that I took as evidence for my ugliness would be the very thing that would no pun intended in the pattern of self hate devote myself to the practice of self love and self respect so now more than a day later I'm walking across campus head Macleod message to heart and not ponder the ramifications for my personal life as I walked back to my dorm room and when I got to my room I did something that I didn't tell you he is great all right let's jump in Leonardo Da Vinci said that perspective is the rain and rudder of painting and I like that quote and I like to borrow that the first thing I thought was my gosh this guy has a big nose he said I knew it couldn't have been you so this is your lucky okay band he says if you were just a little bit taller and had a smaller nose you'd be in jail right now always was the most valuable and exciting aspect of this whole conversation about disruptive education to me I self is short and the second was my nose I always thought my nose was too big these insecurities follow me around ever since I was a kid all the way through I turn around and see who he's talking he's talking to you and he moves towards me and he gets in my face and he says today is your Lucky Day let me tell you uh sort of forces us to broaden our horizons and open our minds to new ways of seeing things new ways of doing things I had coffee with the friend last night that I hadn't seen listen I described practice as an academically infused apprenticeship it's a program where we facilitate academic and professional experiences that are designed cultivate the entrepreneurial Spirit Damon John who many of you may know from the show shark tank I know him as the founder and creator of Fubu said it's not about how emerging technologies are allowing us to do the same things we've always done at a faster all born entrepreneurs family and friends convince us that we're not entrepreneurs the entrepreneur is the one who finds a way to remember in my professional life takes place on the intersection of Education and Entrepreneurship on the Education Director for a program called practice right and extend the application of it and say that perspective is also the rain and rudder of education how we see the meaning and value of education terminate how far are education can take us and how well that education can prepare us not only for the world we currently inhabit but for the world that's emerging right before our very eyes ten years and we were talking about art and just the value of aesthetic education and he quoted a Leonardo Da Vinci he said Leonardo like the guy just need to get a closer look and says and that's why I told you to stop he says I'm sorry to scare you but I just really had to get a look at you and when I moved close to you and I saw your face to revisit and reexamine our sumptious for why we pursue education in the first place what is the value of education what becomes of Education for quotes comes from Seth Godin Seth Godin said the following you're not going to get picked Dick Clark has passed away when our capacity to memorize information access data orchestrate communities of learning becomes outsource to an ever widening array of emerging technology we have to adopt an approach to learning that facilitates the process of self discovery and that cultivates an attitude of self-determination one of my I I contend that if we want to provide a constructive compelling and sustainable answer to that question we have to adopt what I call an entrepreneurial pedagogy responsibility of picking yourself the work that I do I do the work that I do for three reasons number one because I love ideas for any of you who may in my humble blog you'll know that my tagline is ideas are my intoxication philosophy is my psychedelic someone who takes psychedelics what they do is they ingest ace or in a cheaper way or in a way that's more efficient or convenient for me the most exciting aspect of this is that these emerging technologies are forcing us American bandstand is not going to call and put you on the show it's over that world has ended and it's being replaced by the scary but awesome useful it is take that idea and engage reality with attempt to create value for others attempt to solve problems within the context of an accountability the substances for the purpose of inducing an altered state of consciousness that will help them cultivate an internal state of bliss well I believe that concepts are something we entrepreneur and being entrepreneurial being an entrepreneur is someone who owns their own business but being entrepreneurial is a way of thinking it's an attitude structure rooted in profit and loss cal Newport the author of so good they can't ignore you he also runs a blog called study hacks he says the great thing about money I believe one of the fundamental aims of education is to cultivate that entrepreneurial spirit I believe that we can no longer afford to one in which I can manifest results that have never been achieved without this spirit without this attitude I do not believe we have the capacity to survive in the future so here's what I would like to do I would like to disrupt the conversation about disruptive education I would like to change the I would like to shift the focus of that conversation treat entrepreneurs as if they are isolated figures limited to people who launched technology startups or people who own small businesses or people who are founding partners. It says I do not see my world as a closed system in which all of the opportunities are prepackaged pre existing opportunities that I have can chew on and we'd chew on concepts we can alter our state of mind and not only induce internal states have less but radically impact our world the second reason why I do what I do is because not only is that nobody wants to give it to you so when you ask people for money in exchange for something you do you're going to get more honest feedback than ever before of large firms. I think the world is becoming an increasingly smaller space for those who don't see them as entrepreneurs now for the sake of clarity I make a distinction between being and this is a harsh truth but it's so good to get into our minds there's nobody in this world who going to knock themselves over in order to help us out in order to make us into that fact here and I know you know I am expecting a baby to fight and compete over but I see my role as an open system one in which I can introduce possibilities to that world one in which I can produce effects that have never been seen and from technology to philosophy because no matter how fast technology gets no matter how efficient we get at doing things if we continue to do the same recyclable packaging you don't have to worry about caffeine crashes sometimes you just need to boost and I know I'm GonNa need one here pretty soon you definitely a definitely you are I love ideas but I believe in entrepreneurship is optimal medium for empirically demonstrating the value of an idea if you really want to know what an ideas worked if you really want to know how that we do not stop until we find a philosophy of education then honors that aspect of ourselves and that empowers us to give expression back it's not what people say it's not there it's not their stated preferences is what they actually do and scarcity and sacrifice involved the third thing is one of our sponsors came along mushroom cups is here to save the day mushroom coaxes organic Vegan free from additives comes in an eco-friendly fully. I encourage you to watch it's called socratic practice as disruptive technology and one of the points he makes in that taught is that the most powerful disruptive technology anywhere you go being nice being educated doing what you're told having the right credentials doing all of the right things there's nobody in this world if you say what do you think of my idea that what they tell you doesn't really mean anything until you say hey for twenty dollars I'll sell you a book that expresses my idea danger going to get really honestly on mushroom cups at Mushroom Cups Dot Com and that's the number ten P. T. B. One zero yes that's it okay the things for the same reasons without questioning are why we just get better and better at futility Michael Strong has a very awesome Ted talks happy in order to make us wealthy in order to make us rich and so we have to learn how to take responsibility for our lives and be the predominant creative forces in our own lives and I suggest you might be thinking mushrooms in my coffee what's that GonNa taste like well guess what it actually tastes really good so don't worry about that you can find mushroom cups that eighty is yourself something I would like to challenge you to think about are you approaching life from pick me perspective is your approached the Erawan market on Amazon or Mushroom Cups Dot Com use the code P. T. beaten off to get a special deal that is p t be ten off to get a discount I believe we take our perception of reality to be there's always another angle from which things can be seen that's an interesting thought reminds me of a quote that I heard from Helen Keller which is I cried because I had no shoes until I met a man who had no feet right Dan I think this is we need more of this type of thinking we're so locked into our ideas and what we think is true and right and good and bad and don't you think I love this because it's it's just holy optimistic in a way and embraces creativity the creativity permission base and are we educating people to think and live in that way the best advice I got was from one of my professors at Western Michigan University named Dr and I never went to New York I went to La. Because I don't want to you know but I I found out unfortunately that was also true in La is true in Austin it's true in Washington he said to me to Coa that's what tk stands for he says you're a good guy and you're a smart kid but that won't buy you a cup of coffee in New York and I think that if we could shift our perspective in this direction even ever so slightly there would be so much more allowance for kind of with you and gives you that just extra boost of energy and it feels natural it doesn't feel like something's invading your body it just feels right the the the story or what makes something interesting or get you curious and I I loved us very refreshing better on this show to avoid comparison 'cause comparison when you're trying to compare yourself to other people to like how much better they're doing than you can be a bad thing but there is an element the individual creativity understanding empathy letting go of judgment it just it's like find the angle

La P. T. Jeremy Fisher New York Erin caffeine Western Michigan University Helen Keller Michael Strong Ted Dan Erawan Washington Amazon Austin twenty dollars ten years one day
What is Human Trafficking?

I'm Not In An Abusive Relationship

15:29 min | 1 year ago

What is Human Trafficking?

"I don't need help. I'm not an abusive relationship. This is just how it is for us. It's a lie. We tell ourselves one that many in abusive relationships repeats until they believe it. But there's hope welcome to. I'm not in an abusive relationship. A podcast about surviving domestic and sexual violence. This show is about hope. You will hear from survivors of abuse. Their stories may sound familiar. They even inspire hope. Our goal is to connect with others in these toxic relationships to offer that hope and was supporters of our mission. Anyone willing to help get rid of abuse and our culture. We also talk with experts in the field from the officers in the front lines of domestic abuse calls to the therapist and advocates helping survivors navigate. This complicated road of recover. If you're in need of help. Please visit our website or call our twenty four seven hotline eight Hundred Eight two eight two zero two three and at this is an emergency and you need help immediately. Please call nine one one. Welcome to I'm not in an abusive relationship with your host Claudia. Pause thank you for joining us once again for. I'm not in an abusive relationship. We have guest with us today. Rita O'Brien. Who is working on her master's in social work at Western Michigan University and welcome Rita on. We're so glad you could take out. Take some time to join us today. I know An internship is a pretty intense experience and Davis is thrilled to have you with them with us as an intern. Hopefully you've been enjoying your time here as well as giving us some information and learning stuff. Yes it's been great. It's been awesome very good We've been hearing lots and lots and lots in the news lately about human trafficking and we haven't really touched a lot on human trafficking with our podcast as of yet but Today we are going to talk about human trafficking and maybe we can start with a definition. As what is human trafficking well human trafficking involves the act of recruiting transporting transferring harboring or receiving a person through and use of force fraud or coercion or in which the person induced to perform. The act is under eighteen. The sex that can be exchanged for anything of value including food shelter or money. Anyone can be a victim of human trafficking. Anyone can be a trafficker so I mean pretty much most people's heads you associate human trafficking with underage children and also with sexual abuse but they're not always tied or are they always tied together. No they're not always tied together and I think that's what people get confused about in so I think that's where you have to define what force fraud and coercion is. It's not just underage people. Okay so how? Let's let's justifying those. How would we talk about that? Well FORCE AS KIDNAPPING TORTURE BATTERING THREATS. Sexual Abuse Confinement Force drug use and use of restraints. Where FRAUD IS FALSE? Promises withholding documents lying about wages lying about working conditions? Preying on desperation lying about a better life or blackmail and then with coercion threats of harm to victims family controlling of children holding idea documents verbal or psychological abuse intimidation humiliation creating dependency and establishing quotas so I don't even know where to go from there How would people notice if something was going on? Especially if it like you'd have immediate that would be kidnapping or and I don't know how you would help with that. But some of the other signs that. Maybe this could be preventable. It's not always obvious right. I wouldn't think so people get attract into it. They don't even know it and then when it happens. It's almost too late to do anything about it. So I mean we hear about this nationally all the time But how prevalent would you say? This is right here in our area in our county. Well I can give you. The statistics. three percent victims or kidnapped thirty five percent are sold into trafficking by their own family. How'd you get? How'd you get sold into trafficking? It's I'm kind of speechless about that. Is Making my stomach? Just even thinking about these teenagers or even younger probably well. I think if you think of the missing Kim people don't know about like your kids in foster care. Nobody knows. They're missing because nobody knows like I mean they're kids that have been. I hate to say thrown away. But they've been thrown away so a lot of the kids that you see on missing posters are from foster care or they're from families where there's issues going on and the people are struggling in the families to take care of themselves so they don't care about the one kid that's off missing somewhere so wooden foster families still. Don't they have to account for the the children in their care? I mean obviously. They have to account for the children if runaways. Who cares that's the sad thing that is a sad thing and sixty two percent are tricked into trafficking by someone they know and trust boyfriend or A. Bff Wow and it's a lot a lot of it's done by social media a lot of the social media apps that our children and teens have. That's how it's being done so if you were an interested. Party parent a sibling. What would you look for? I mean on on phone. I mean I don't know how do you. How do you jump into this before? It actually happens while the national human trafficking hotline recorded recruitment on Facebook Instagram snapchat. Kick ME DOT COM WHATSAPP. Dating sites APPs like Tinder Grinder. Plenty of fish sex traffickers look for posts from children and teens like nobody gets me. I'm so ugly. I'm being treated like a little kid. The traffickers pretend to be interested in sun strategic messages. I understand you. I'll make your life better. I'll encourage you to take risks. You're an adult when they're not right. Well in kids fall for this. Yes okay so schools could maybe step in and do sort of a social media awareness. I mean okay. I'm I'm an older person. But some of those apps you listed facebook and Instagram by a lot of those I mean and kids have technology in schools. Now I mean we give them technology to take home so it's gotta be easier and easier for predators to find victims to prey upon. Yes in the problem with social media. We can't put the burden of that on our schools because the schools have enough stress dealing with all the problems they already have. We have to put it on people in the community so when you think of social media ninety two percent of teens put their real names out there Another eighty four percent say. Hey I'm playing soccer. I'm playing whatever sport. They put that out then. They put their birthdates out there. They also put their relationship status online and videos of themselves and that makes them pray to anybody who's looking to hunt someone down and make them part of they know where they are. Looked like their name is an yeah. Well I know your birthday is coming up or whatever. Yeah Yeah so. We tell them not to do that. We just tell somebody not to do something. It only makes them. WanNa do it more. That's true it's true. Maybe some there must be an outreach to children to parents to churches. I don't know what you can do if you see something. Say something. Trust your instincts on the national human trafficking. Hotline number is one eight. Eight eight three seven three seven. Eight eight eight Help human trafficking hotline DOT ORG or worldwide web human trafficking hotline dot. Org Educate yourself friends your family about sexual assault domestic violence and human trafficking because they can go hand in hand in Michigan. We have kids okay to say and it's the WW dot. Michigan Dot Gov backslash okay to say now I know well I work in a high school and I know we talked to kids about that. We have a little Like actual lesson. This is what it is. This is how you do it. It can be anonymous. You can get help. You can help a friend Again telling them go with your gut instinct. If you think something's wrong report it right even if it ends up not being wrong. Report it because no one's GONNA get in trouble if nothing's wrong but maybe you can save someone there right. And so if you're if you're seeing this. What are some warning signs of human trafficking that we might be able to prevent something so some of the warning signs of human trafficking is when they become withdrawn from family and their friends like their behavior changes from say they're getting all as and they dropped to season Dini's They become angry when they can't get on the Internet. Like if you suddenly take their phone away or you keep them from the internet or they slam shut when you come in the room. That's a huge warning sign if you find inappropriate material on on their devices anything. That's kind of weird out of the ordinary. Should be a red flag when they quickly turn the monitor off or like I said. Close the laptop That should be a huge red flag and if they receive mail money or gifts from unknown people. That's another red flag and unknown phone numbers on the phone bill with lots of different texts. That aren't from people that you know I am most kids. Don't pay their own phone bill. So now I find. We're look at the numbers. I maybe I'm going to start doing that. Yeah a team I would for sure. Look at something like that So I- i- teens. Aren't all that naive. So how did they fall for this stuff? Well they fall for with a term we use called grooming so grooming win. You'll have an older boy. I hate to pick on boys. It's mostly men that traffic. Although women are just as guilty as trafficking young boys but grooming is the most common tactic that an abuser uses. And they'll start to get to know girl emotionally and she'll do whatever she can to keep the relationship going. The initial contact of users are experts at recognizing vulnerabilities in young children. And they use those vulnerabilities against them to connect manipulate and exploit the young person of users look for victims who have low self esteem are isolated from friends and family have a history of sexual abuse. They're homeless or in the foster care system or they can come from a broken home or those who have conflicts with their parents or guardians wants to victims. Vulnerabilities are identified. The abuser works to fill the role. That is missing in the person's life and most of the time the victim will identify as sexually assaulted domestic violence or human trafficking. But not until much later because they don't understand what all that is right and so with with human trafficking or if the child isn't actually kidnapped I mean. Do they like stay at home? And they're still being taken advantage of. Are they locked away in a rumor? How what all happens. Well I don't want to say anything about a particular movie but you know people think it's always Hollywood. How happy and that's what they read. It can happen in your community it can happen. It can happen to the kid across the street and it could. It could be happening. If there's a lot of cars coming in and out it could be happening. If the kid is taken to places and traffic in a certain building in certain part of town you know can happen anywhere. There is no no part of United States or any place else that's excluded from it. My goodness so. What advice do you have for kids themselves? I think for advice for another kid would be. You know if you're seeing a kid at school who is having trouble and they're you know going out with strange guys and they're getting lots of they got a brand new cell phone that they couldn't afford before and they're getting brand new clothing and tennis shoes and jewellery and makeup and they're getting their hair done and they're getting their nails done and all of a sudden you know they got pregnant and they're having an abortion you know that ought to be a red flag with because they've changed their behavior. Somebody's forcing them to do this. If they're falling asleep in class if you know they're not taking care of themselves like they used to because they're exhausted. Those ought to be red flags for teachers in the school nurse and other classmates to say. Hey let's get our friend help. I wish we had school nurses. That's a whole nother topic but that's you know that would go a huge way for helping people see things too but Do they ever get out of these situations? I think that young people can get out if they get proper help but many times the The if we have someone listening to us right now who knows? This is what's happening to them if someone is listening and they know what's happening to them or they suspected they can call the national human trafficking hotline number and then calling that number will link them to the proper people in the area that are trained. That can help them so yes. They can help a lot of times. People are afraid to leave because the trafficker has threaten their lives threaten. Our family threatened to kill them. You know they've done so many things to manipulate them that it's their fault that you know. They owe them money that there's no way out. Sometimes and that hotline number is one eight eight eight three seven three seven. Eight eight eight. That's correct so anyone listening. If you suspect human trafficking if you know you are involved or or in the middle of some bad things happening to you or someone in your family or someone you know. teachers ministers really the community needs to to get behind this and protect. I say kids but older people can be trafficked as well but pretty much seems to be teenagers. Yeah Twelve to twelve to eighteen and then the thing I'd like to point out. Sometimes young boys get caught up in this to be the trafficker they don't always realize they're getting caught up into it so. I would also like young boys who have had people take pictures of them or they've been forced to take pictures of young girls that they have a right to call that number two and they have a right to get help. I don't WanNa just say this happens to girls. It happens to boys and girls and young boys have the right to get help to. Anybody has the right to get help absolutely Yup Rita. Thank you so much for your information today. I wish we didn't have this information. But hopefully People will get some help. Some community members will get involved. And we'll try to put an end to this horrible situation and that number once again is one eight eight eight three seven three seven eight eight. Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to. I'm not in a piece of relationship. If these stories resonate with you in you need help. Please visit our website. D. A. S. A. S. M. I. Dot Org that's basis M. I. Dot Org or call our hotline at eight Hundred Eighty. Two eight two zero two three. We are here to walk alongside of you know someone who might benefit from our show. Please share Social Media. Email simply telling someone about it. All help us spread the word help us to combat domestic and sexual violence. We also welcome financial and volunteer support. That information is our website. Thank you to the staff. Volunteers and board of directors and domestic and sexual services. This podcast is produced with the help of the committee of dedicated advocates. Thank you to wbz. Tv radio in sturgis Michigan for the use of their studio. This has been a podcast about surviving domestic and sexual violence and production domestic and sexual abuse services of Michigan.

kidnapping facebook Michigan Western Michigan University Claudia psychological abuse Rita O'Brien soccer fraud United States FRAUD intern Hundred Eighty Davis Kim sturgis Michigan
#117: How to Unstuck Your Brain and Get Out of Your Funk with Antonio Neves

Broken Brain with Dhru Purohit

1:09:59 hr | 1 year ago

#117: How to Unstuck Your Brain and Get Out of Your Funk with Antonio Neves

"So fear of course gets in the way but after remind people that in many ways and psychologists will tell you that fear in excitement are the exact same emotion. It depends on how you are looking at something I've wanted to here host of the Marin podcast. Today we're talking with award winning journalist Speaker and coach Antonio mets about getting unstuck how to get out on funk. Have you ever been in a funk in your life? I know I have well. We'll be talking today with Antonio about why we get. A and most importantly how to get out of it. I think you're GonNa love this interview with someone who's a close and dear friend of mine. Stay tuned everybody. Before we jump into today's episode I WanNa give a shout out to my favorite water filtration device but before. I do a little back story so I've been talking about clean water since the beginning of podcast and many of my guest have to clean. Water is so essential when it comes to our health but when listeners would ask what water filtration system I recommend would always tell them reverse osmosis and I had one other time. It's under your sink when you open up people sinks and you see that complicated sort of filtration system there. I would recommend that and listeners would say hey that's expensive and it looks messy and most importantly don't get a reminder that you need to change your filter there's gotta be a better solution and I thought to myself there has to be better solution. I'm an entrepreneur. Why don't I use my money to go and build an actual filter so in the process of researching parts and researching manufacturers? I came across another company. That did it better than I could. Or maybe the same. I think I could have done pretty good too. It's called Aqua true and I reached out to them. My business partner reach out to them. Doctor Highlander. We said we'd love to partner up and I became a huge fan of this filter. And why is that? It's plugging plane when you buy it and it gets shipped to you. You don't have to install anything you just put on your counter and you fill it up with water and you get clean water on the other end you put dirty water one side you get clean water on the other side. It has a four stage. Filtration Process that Removes Twenty Times Twenty Times more contaminants than the best selling water filter. We all know what that is starts to be. And it's a jug and those things don't work really well especially during this time where I see a lot of people stocking up on supplies including loads of plastic water bottles because they're fearful. That's not a good option. Plastics had Zeno estrogens. And they act like Zeno estrogens in our body and the confused our body and make us feel like we have access to a bunch of other hormones floating the system and they're just bad for the environment plastic bottles and they're bad for our health. There's gotTa to be a better solution. And that solution is aqua true if you want access to the exclusive discount that we put together with them. We're actually offering it on our own website. Just go to broken brain dot COM broken brain dot com slash filter. And you can get it for two ninety nine. It's one hundred fifty dollars off the regular price. I believe in this filter so much about twenty five to thirty of them with my own money for my family and friends. They love it. You will to go to broken brain dot com slash filter to get access to the special deal. Welcome to the broken. Bring podcast when we dive deep into the topics of neuro plasticity epigenetics mindfulness functional medicine and mindset. All with the goal of helping understand how your brain is not broken on your host Drew Perot and each week by team and I bring on a new guest who we think can help you improve your brain health feel better and most importantly live more. This week's guest my good friend. Antonio NEF's Antonio NABS is nationally recognized leadership speaker author and award winning journalist. His worldwide audience have included Google starwood hotels and resorts worldwide Stanford University and many many more. Antonio is the author of three books and his next book will be published by Penguin Random House on January twenty twenty one on his podcast which I was just on and many of you heard because we re aired the episode here on the Marine podcast on his podcast. The best thing Antonio talks to people about the best thing that's happened to them that would rarely appear on a resume bio or come up in conversation. It's unexpected for over ten years. Antonio worked as a correspondent in television industry in New York City with top networks including NBC PBS and bt Networks Antonio. Welcome to the broken brain podcast. Thank you so much for having me man. I've been a listener for so long. It is an honor to be on with you Sometimes I do these intros. And I'm like all interviewing my friend. I always say my friend my dear friend. My Dad and somebody messed me on instagram. They're like dude. Why is everybody at your dear friend on your podcast and I wanted to that in this case you actually are my dear friend. We're part of a men's group together. We spent a Lotta time catching up supporting each other. And he's in each other's goals dreams businesses life being there for each other so I'm proud and for the individual who ascended in the feedback. This is actually my best friend. Not that other people aren't and it's great to have you here. Yeah I love Thee Dear Friend. Call me all day. Something was missing when I was saying you were corresponding and television industry. We talked about. Nbc PBS. Bt why did you leave off Nickelodeon Funny Nickelodeon? That's what people always seem to find when they google my name for your listeners. I spent a few years by first GIG television after moving to New York City with the Story of arriving with eight hundred dollars in my bank account barely knowing anyone would break with Nickelodeon and I co hosted a show on there for a few years. Call you pick live. I had long dreadlocks and I was just a whole other dude and the truth is for longtime drew. I let a lot with nickelodeon. I had a successful career. Their kids the parents. Everybody knew who I was but it all these years later. That was two thousand two to two thousand four. That just seems like another lifetime ago. It seems like such an earlier chapter. It's really past tense. So I don't put it out there too much but I tell you after an event when I'm speaking people always come up with Youtube. Like Hey man is this you unlike. Yes it is. I think that embodies one of the themes that we're GONNA be talking about today. Which is that. I always remember. My Dad's say like the lives. The amount of lives that you and I are living in this modern day generation. You Know Thirties and forties. We are living the equivalent of like five sometimes six seven eight lifetime's compared to the lifetimes of our ancestors so we go through a lot of different hats and situations and circumstances we don't have the same profession and live in the same area for our entire life and with that transition can come a lot of different ups and downs in finding out who we are and most importantly getting ourselves out of a funk which is what we're going to be talking about today before we jump into those things just tell us a little about Antonio's lives growing up. Where did you go up and you know? What kind of kid were you? Yeah grew up in small town Michigan as Super Far Away from a NASCAR speedway. I'm upbringing I guess you would say a little bit untraditional growing up man. I've dealt with a decent amount of instability but when your kid is pretty much all that you know I'm from a community and a nice community but frankly community were not a lot of people leave. People tend to stay or if they do leave they always come back and always knew from a young age that there was something else out there and I wanted to explore. I wanted to see what was out there and I was fortunate enough to be the first of my family to be a first generation college student to go away to get my education and that opened a lot of doors for me to not just leave the mid West because there was a time of my life growing up drew that I thought if I made it to Detroit if I made A to Chicago. That was it and I can still remember when I had an internship at Disneyworld down in Orlando Florida. When is were just opened as like all there? Are People that live other places? There are jobs and careers. I can do this thing called studying abroad and my eyes were open truly for the very first time so at my heart man. I've always been an adventure of always. Been an encouraging. I've always been an athlete and I've been Willin Kinda to go my own way. Sometimes it works out. Sometimes it goes to your to your detriment of a. Michigan is a foundation and upbringing. I wouldn't take away. It gave me some really strong midwest values with a father and mother being blue collar people. My Dad worked in factories. My mother was an administrative assistant for the same company for over thirty years so I learned a lot about work ethic and being willing to to get your hands dirty. I love it tells about you know you said you were the first kid and your family to make it to college. And that's a monumental thing what was a choice study. And how did you decide to go down a path that eventually took into journalism when I showed up at Western Michigan University drew? I just knew I wanted to be in college. I didn't know anything about majors. I didn't know about different things you could pursue a as you mentioned in your introduction. I went on to work in broadcast journalism and television for over ten years in New York City. I didn't know I could study journalism. I didn't know I could study these things so first couple of years for me when they call general education in literally was general education. Because I was trying out a little bit of everything and learning on the fly. The good news. That didn't have any pressure from my parents till you got to be a doctor. You got to be a lawyer. You got to pursue this. Because they were just happy that I was getting medication. I was fortunate enough at one. Point took a entry level business class and I learned about this thing called marketing and ended up falling love in love with subject and had some good mentors business college at Western Michigan University and ended up majoring in marketing. Which I think ended up being a great choice because I learned so much about a variety of things and it just opened the doors To so many different things in my life but I I was a novice on that campus. I I really didn't even know I could go to college outside of the state and even if that wasn't opportunity I knew we couldn't afford it so college was again one of those big growing periods. When you're like. Wow there is more out there. You're assigned you've put out a couple of books on yourself that you put out the independently published signed with Penguin. We just talked about that a little earlier. We'll talk about the book coming out in the future. How you go from somebody. Who's the first in their family to get into college? Just like just ecstatic to be their thriving. You know really trying to make that the best education that eventually broadcast journalism journalism where the first seeds of personal development and self development. You know you have a podcast. Now you're you're about to be a published author through like a traditional publisher. You're a speaker. You're speaking on stages at different places where the first WASPS and elements of self development. Come in your life. I can remember the day when that first happened in my life. I was in sixth grade and when I was in Sixth Grade. Drew is going through a really challenging in life. You know between my mom and dad are total of six different divorces before I graduated from High School. I moved over fifteen different times in my small hometown. And there's a brief spell of my life even living in a in a shelter for battered and abused women and children so there was a lot of instability going on an sixth grade when I think I was going to turn that proverbial wrong corner. My Sixth Grade Teacher showed up for me in a way that changed my life for the better and she ended up casting me as the lead in the sixth grade. Production of the nutcracker. Now that may seem innocent enough but drew. That was the first time in my life where I felt like someone truly believed in me and that caused me to intern. Believe in myself. I think that's probably one of the main reasons why I do the work that I do today. And that was Mrs Hirschman and thank God for her believing in me and empowering me in that moment because I think I would have turned around corner and then what notice Jews that throughout my life through a lot of quote Unquote Hirschman. Showed up for me to got me to believe in myself to me to see things at the time. I couldn't see over years track and field coaches when I was in high school when I went on to run track and field in college as well not a coach in college. That did those same things for me. I had mentors and college at did the exact same thing. I've been fortunate even when I moved to New York City with just eight hundred dollars my bank account new just one person somehow of always been able to latch onto mentors at wanted to support me. That believed in me when I needed it most and like that's my duty today the end of the day when. I do my work as a coach when I'm on stage stage when I'm speaking of five thousand people or forty people. That's what I'm really trying to get. People to do is to believe in themselves to remember that they have a say in this and these people believe in a meet the it up my confidence A- gave me the courage to do some things that otherwise probably wouldn't have done but it truly goes back to sixth grade. Mrs Hershman in the power of teacher. to really instill confidence in any young person. So let's pivot here into the topic that we want to cover here and we'll come back to your story. You know when we were talking about what we want to talk about today and what kind of conversation we want to offer because there's such a breadth of topics we could do. I was telling you that there's this theme that you regularly help out. People who are sort of stuck in their career who are looking to figure out what's next they feel like the best is behind them and our chatting with you that I said you know even if people whether they young whether they're older I think everybody can resonate with getting stuck in a funk and the feeling of what it means and for whatever reason it seems now especially in Corentin time and lockdown time period. I think a lot of people are realizing that they've been in a funk and they might been in a fun way before this whole pandemic went down you know knock on wood. We hope everybody's okay. We wish for their family. I feel for everybody. Who's lost their job. And other situations that are out there. And in addition to that whether people have been directly affected or not affected. There's whole layer people who are just dealing with this feeling of being stuck in a funk. I'd love your general thoughts and commentary on why you think that's happening today the reason why it's happening today. Let's be clear men. We've been on a treadmill for a really long time. Allow decisions that we have made really aren't decisions that we've made if you live in the states and you're trying to follow the American dream they tell you go get a good education and they tell you to get a good job. They tell you to get married and buy a home and do these things. Which on the paper follows. All of those are really good positive things however sometimes we realize we get to that point in life when we realize we've felt a little bit out of control and the decisions that we've made and we're doing things that we truly don't want to do now. The irony of this drew is that on paper. Everything could look perfect everything right. We got the job. We got the decent income. We look good on instagram linked. Dan We have the home with the white picket fence. Yes something is missing internally and I'm a great example of Bedroo- of Genesis of my next book it really starts with me back in twenty sixteen when on paper. Everything looked great married Father to twins a successful career on paper. Everything was good but I was dying inside because there are some things that were happening in my life. That made me feel frankly dull and for people listening to this. If they're curious hey they're talking about a funk what does it look like to be in a Funk? I JUST WANNA share a couple of examples of what it can feel like look like to be in a fuck and we can start. You mentioned the career side of things so on the career side of things being a fun can look like you used to do great work but at some point you transition to doing good enough work. It can look like at some point. You really wanted that promotion. You really wanted that raise but now the more you think about getting that promotion that more responsibility it feels more like a burden than something. That's positive It also can look like there was a time when you would spend time building relationships with your colleagues going to happy hour or two lunches and now it's got to the point where you've turned down there overtures and their invitation so much that they're no longer asking you to go out you know on the personal side of things was it like to be in a funk This is something you've talked about. Allow on your podcast. Drew is you know when we've retreated from our friends. When we've retreated from our community you may be in a funk if you no longer have hobbies in you're doing those things that bring you joy or you're regularly quote unquote finishing things you can be in a folk and last things that are share relating to funk. Is You have nothing to look forward to a lot of people you know. We thrive on having something to look forward to that event vacation. You name it. Those dinner plans with friends but you no longer are doing does. And lastly when it comes to our I a fog. A lot of folks have stopped learning again. Education has been such a big component of our lives and at some point we stop learning. We stopped challenging ourselves. I think those are some of the key reasons why we can find ourselves in a funk in our career or even in our personal lives and I know that first hand very well when you zoom out and now that you've described like water funk is maybe even some situations where we could think about that because some people are in a fun getting multiple areas of their life could be career could we family could be their interests their friendships. We wanted to be all of above when you zoom out and your work. You coach people and you coach coach organizations. What are some of the factors that lead up to someone getting in defunct? How do we get in this mess in the first place? That's a great question because I think we get this muck DYSFUNC- in the first place is because at some point drew I thank. We stopped being bold. And I'll give you an example. What are when we stopped being bold in our lives In My book I CHAPTER. I talk about these two fashion designers. They were interviewed in The New York Times and during the interview they were talking about what it was like when they were creating their fashion label in the nineteen nineties in New York City and if anyone remembers or read the newspaper Stories New York City back in nineteen ninety did not look like what New York City. It looks like now and during that interview at some point one of the founder says all man. I miss the Old New York but then what is business partner? Did he corrected him and he said you don't miss the Old New York. What you miss is the old you who you were during that time so to answer your question. I think what a lot of people are missing right now. Drew is who they once were during their youth. During those days of chasing things that truly mattered an exercise. I like to do with people sometimes is called the best thing exercise and what I do is ask people I to write down five things five of the best things that ever happened to them and typically what they do a write down five of the traditional thing though right down getting married having kids getting the degree buying a home all those things are great right but then I take that next step and say okay. Now tell me five of the best things to ever happen to you. That are not traditional. That wouldn't show up like getting married and having kids and people really have to pause and really have to think. And that's the kind of genesis podcast as well and I'll give you a personal example for me. Some of the things that aren't traditional are the best thing that ever happened to me. One was getting fired from my job at Nickelodeon. That's a whole other story. That's one a second. One is moving to New York City with eight hundred dollars in my bank account. A third one was walking on the track and field team. Another one is hosting a retreat in Nicaragua when I had no business hosting retreat in Nicaragua at the time. And then what you do. Is you think about those experiences. Those things in you. Identify the emotions that you were feeling during that right. Sometimes we're feeling nervous energy. We are feeling excitement. We're feeling challenged. And I think truly what we are missing drew are those Felix. I think what we're truly chasing in life is a feeling in a lot of people have stopped doing those things. Those things that were considered bold and they've gotten to frankly allow at trophy to set in Dave basically found themselves coasting on autopilot. That's super important breakdown. Because I often think you know the next question that I think about is like an interview. Interviewer is what are some of the things or reasons that they've stopped chasing? Is it hurt? Is it getting letdown? Is it things not working out in your conversations with people? If they're not going for that if they're not being bold you know. People WANNA BE BOLD. They WANNA feel good. They remember those situations in times where they felt good. But what's stopping them or did they choose to slow down a one as you imagined. Fear is one of the biggest things the fear of things not working out what happens by put some energy and effort behind something and it doesn't work out in one thing always have to remind people is a question that we spend so much time and energy asking the question. What if it doesn't work out? Ju It is so rare that we asked the question. What if it does work out loud times we went out? You'll tell your friend a new idea about something you wanNA pursue. And then what are they still say they said well you know? Let's play devil's advocate right. How can we don't have people in our lives? Where saying you know what? Let's play God's advocate. Let's talk about this in a positive. The positive things that can happen so fear of course gets in the way but after remind people that in many ways and psychologists will tell you that fear in excitement are the exact same emotion. It depends on how you are looking at something. I love this quote from Fritz Pearls. He founded just all therapy and he says fear is excitement without the breath in that statement in itself. When I learned that changed my vantage point of how is looking at fear. Or how is looking at resistance as Stephen? Press pressfield talks about a second thing. I think happened drew. That stops us from doing these. Things is you're gonNA laugh at this man. We accumulate too much stuff. We start accumulating so many things in our life we end up getting a home with a mortgage. Of course we got the car note. We buy all these different thing. We get layered in so many different things that essentially we are a hoarder and we can't imagine even see what looked like to break free from all of these responsibilities that we have again when I think about the American dream and this may be controversial. I I look at the American dream and really in many ways it's consumerism is trying to get us to buy stuff to do to fit into a life that works for society but we never ask the question. Does this work for me. So I think we accumulate stuff and physically that plays a major role and then I think this is another one and some of your listeners. May May giggle this a little bit but at some point drew we stop dreaming. We stop imagining what our future can look like and we enter the quote unquote real world. We do what we have to do. But I'm a call me. I'm a man in his forties and I'm never going to stop dreaming and I think we can always have the opportunity to rediscover and re imagine what things look like a question. I like to pose to people. This is a great powerful coaching question. And I think people here this are. GonNa it's GonNa make them pause and that question. Is this right here as it relates to. If you're no longer being both and that is if you're live was a movie up to this point if your life was a movie would you go see it drew? When I ask people that question most folks will say absolutely not at my life was a movie up to this point. I probably would've walked out by now because it's so I can. I can anticipate what's going to happen next. It's boring there's no adventure there's no detours and then. I like to do the whole. Choose your own adventure right. If you're movie was halfway over. What would the lead character start doing or stop doing to start to turn things around? And that's when their brain starts to activate and they start to think about new ways new decisions things they can do things. They can stop doing that. Lets THEM START TO DREAMY? Give less than start to imagine again. And to be clear when I'm talking about dreaming and imagining. I'm not talking about quitting job and moving to Bali to pursue something. I really believe that we can be happy where we are Based on the decisions that we choose to make. Let's make it personal and talk about your own life. You had to shared earlier that you kind of found in part of the premise of your book. Is you talking about your own story? I don't WanNa ruin the book and we obviously want to have you back on talk about that. When it's ready out January twenty twenty one but what can you share with the audience here? How can you relate to that story? In some way back in two thousand sixteen one hundred percent stop dreaming marriage my wife and I were married for just a year drew and a lot of stuff you probably know because you know of course dear friends some stuff you may not know a year into our marriage man. We were we were. We risk sick in marriage counseling. Things were not going good. We had twins that were born at thirty two weeks ahead to spend well over a month in the nick. You getting stronger being able to come home at this exact same around the same time. My father was diagnosed with dementia. And the man that. I once knew that I could have a conversation with that. I could go to give feedback and just to learn from. I can no longer have those conversations with him. The irony is I mentioned earlier. That on paper drew while I was experiencing all of this. Everything looked great. If you sit look at the Internet Antonio was killing it but inside I was feeling horrible and that led to me drew sedating in the evenings. I end pretty much almost every night at one point with a glass of wine or a cocktail. Frankly so I wouldn't feel drew. I gained nearly thirty pounds during that timeframe from emotional eating because I was not getting the emotions out. It got to the point where I was wearing heart monitor because I thought I was going to have a heart attack at times because things were feeling so wrong internally this is one that really say outside a lot but I do share in. My book is found myself. I knew things that are really hit a quarter that I wasn't happy withdrew when I found myself regularly sneaking in smoking cigarettes in alleys. I would wear a bright green gardening glove in smoke cigarettes in an alley and wore the glove. So the smell didn't get on my hands so when I spent time with you or spent when I came home to see my wife. They wouldn't know that I was smoking a funny story. That really started to turn things around for me. Drew during this time by the way gotTA remind people on the Internet right now. I was killing it but inside I was dying are member. One day. I was smoking one of those cigarettes in a Santa Monica Street. Alley in a homeless man came up and he was like a SAAMI IS A. Hey Man can I bum a couple of cigarettes and I was like yeah no problem dude. Look like he had seen many better days than this day. Game a couple of cigarettes then at some point he noticed that the Bright Green I was wearing. And he's like Oh What's up with the glove man as like I wear this so My wife doesn't know that I'm smoking is so she can't smell it. He looked at me men as if he felt. So sorry for me. And as of his heart was broken looking at me and then he said something man profound he said You. GotTa figure this shit out. Man Hero allegedly killing it. You know with my career in live in. This homeless man is looking at me with pain in his is saying you got to figure that shit out and that was one of those moments drew that I had realized that Joe I had stopped being boat. I had stopped dreaming that I was on cruise control and I had retreated from people that wanted to support me. I was doing good enough work. As opposed a great work and I was fortunate enough to have a community like you and have going to therapy and different things to know too slowly but surely course correct ship but it did take time. You know it does take time and part of that. Time is awareness that again going back to early part of the conversation which is even just knowing we're in a funk sometimes especially with dealing with life situations apparent who sick kids being born premature and it could be anything for anybody in this time period getting go family trauma family sickness. There's can be so much going on that we're just trying to survive so we don't even know if we're in a funk or not so that was the circumstances and situation but what do you think were a couple of things that led to a real wakeup call where it was like. Whoa like I can see this now from the outside I can see my life from thirty thousand feet up and while I'm in a funk I need to do something about it was there some of the you a conversation you know there's always a little pivotal moments moments. That kind of hate help us make sense of everything and room we get. It was anything like that for you of a couple of things one literally. Was that man telling me that homeless man telling me I figure that shit out that hit me to my core man like that that was big and also think the day drew them away. the cigarettes In in the car and the hurt on her face when she kind of the amazing thing about that moment true is that I was afraid that she was going to be so mad in angry at me but when I shared with her what was going on and how stressed I wasn't what I was going through. She opened her arms to me. Like how can I help? And which was amazing because you can think about people who are going through tough times maybe doing some things. They're embarrassed of and the people that they love when they finally share them. Hey I've been doing this behavior. That's not the best. I've I've done X. Y. or Z. We get hit with contempt. We get hit with judgment as opposed to open arms So those are a couple of thanks but also what may played a major role Of course was the health diagnosis. Just knowing that I've continued not to take care of my body things weren't going to look good and I gotta say being able frankly to go to our man morning event. You didn't episode on this every Thursday. You know we get together as men at seven o'clock in the morning and being able to see folks and being able to communicate with them even if I wasn't always sharing my full story I walked away feeling better because I chose even during that time not to retreat from community And known y'all always had my back made a huge difference and to get more more tactical and can share specific. Things drew that I think listeners due to get out of a funk something else I did that really was a germinating in my mind around. That time was started feeling bored. Frankly inside you mentioned earlier that. I spent over ten years in the television industry. If there's one thing I love doing one thing I'm great at drew is interviewing it's having fascinating conversations with fascinating people. But my life had transitioned to me solely speaking on sage's to people not with them so I knew I had to do something to change and that led to me being willing to start that that podcast the best thing that even though it wasn't published until Twenty twenty that had been in my mind. The past couple of years in hitting publish every week on that drew has been a game changer for me. My happiness that sense of accomplishment and the joy that I have conducting those interviews. You know there's one super strong theme in what you just shared. Which is that when we're often in a funk there's some element of hiding from the world in your case it was hiding this behavior and the cigarettes that you were using as a coping mechanism or could be the drinking component right. There's some part of it. That's hiding now. That may be seen as vice. But there's another side is where we're hiding our talents from the world and we've had so many conversations and I always say you know when I started podcast. Antioch Imagine you completely dominating in hosting a show because you're just a natural interviewer you're a natural person besides the fact that you actually have had professional training in and done it for a much bigger opportunities at out there but you also hiding that gift from the right. You were not intentionally. But you weren't moving forward with that aspect so both the vice item on the talent side one theme. That seems to be there. I know anytime that I've been in a funk. It's the same thing for me. Is we can hide some aspect of who you are or what potential we have with the world. Any thoughts on that absolutely For the longest time and I came up in a day and age a broken the television history prior to Youtube existing. Back when you had to have an agent if you WANNA be on TV you had to get hired the agent via network etc. So I came up with this mindset of I had to be endorsed by someone by NBC by Nickelodeon by bt and side very rarely do anything to quote unquote endorse myself if you will So my way of hiding over the years was y'all hit record autism video. Do something but there needs to be a sponsor there needs to be a partner in what I've learned. You know doing this work in writing. The book specifically is that is so critical drew for us to be willing to be our own benefactor to be willing to endorse ourselves. Sometimes we as you mentioned earlier. Apoe is self published three books prior meets prior to me getting a big book deal with a major publishing house. I had self published three books but a lot of people have those questions inside of their brain like what? What will people think about me if I self published a book? What will people think if I start this side hustle? What will people think about decide to take that trip alone? Or if I decide to you know. Join a church when no one else in my community is doing that but we have to be willing sometimes the stand alone and endorse ourselves and you know sometimes many people will tell you that you're going the wrong way when indeed. You're just going away of your own. And when I talk about being your own benefactor I like to think about great artists over the years look drew. We can talk about people. I've Mozart we can talk about people like Picasso. We can talk about writers like Harper Lee. The one thing those men and women in plenty of other artists over the year had in common. You know what they have in common. That is some point. They had been factors people who are willing to support their work. When now in this day and age the game has changed and people could say oh must be nice for them to have benefactors. What about me will the good news is that with the right framing we can have benefactors our jobs the job that you may hate right now that job that you may despise which if hopefully Nolan's hating or despising a job right now with so many people being unemployed at this time but the job that you potentially dislike if you look at it through the right Lens could actually be your benefactor a dear friend of mine. His name is Mich Mathews he says. Something me that I'll never forget. He said a dream job is a job that you absolutely love or a job that allows you to do what you love in this day and age where we have all these amazing crowdfunding platforms which they help you do great work the gofundme means of the world. The kickstarter Indie go-goes etc. I think those are great drew but at the same time. I think they have stopped people's ingenuity. They've stopped people being willing to invest in themselves. You know what I'll do this project out. Do this endeavor it back and raise money on this platform. If I can do this but we have to be willing at some point to kickstart ourselves right. I was joking point. Podcast in an introduction are told the audience odds joking because you listen to so many podcast nowadays and you hear people say hey before we get into that basilica which let you know. This podcast is brought to you by XYZ sponsor head over to Blah Blah Blah. And I said Hey I want you let you know that this podcast is brought to you by by me. I'm I'm paying for this out of my pocket. There's no sponsored. There is no one so I invite all of you to be willing to invest in yourself to be your own benefactor and since we're revealing as well drew something I want to let people know. Is You know on the Internet for a long time. I primarily put up a front at times leading people think that I primarily was making an income solely as a speaker solely as a coach what I didn't share behind the scenes that at times during my speaking career. I've essentially held fulltime jobs at one point. I was working for about dot me the personal branding platform based out of San Francisco and commuting their pretty much every single week out of L. A. and along with travel for speaking another time Basically had a fulltime job working with a Nada. I oh the top ECOMMERCE Company for health and wellness brands as their narrative director. And I frankly wish I would have said that out loud. More drew that yes. I'm a coach. Yes I speak on these stages across the country and sometimes internationally in guess what. Sometimes I have a full-time job as well behind the scenes to handle my responsibilities. And I look at that and I celebrate because to me. It's like wow somebody's actually hustling and they care so much about what they creatively. WanNa do and what direction. They want to take their career that they're willing to do anything even if somebody's working you know five jobs whether somebody's delivering pizza working at a grocery store clerk like you know we all look at the movies and when we see that we feel inspired because it's like this person feel so committed to what they're doing they're willing to do whatever and. I know you feel the same way too when you see that from the outside but I think it's important to ask. Why do you think that you were hiding it and not sharing it? Why did you not want that to be known? What did you think that you were getting in return by keeping it private veneer right Is the veneers you want everything on the outside of your home look Nice. She wanted to look perfect. You want to create this narrative that you're killing it and you're only making this money by doing this thing and somehow by you know the thought in my head. The time was that if I shared that I had a time job that I wasn't as valuable that I wasn't successful in the field and endeavor that I was pursuing so at the time it it felt vulnerable so for many many years man I just put up a veneer in the beautiful thing about that journey in about that man telling me after figuring my shit out drew was that would that started me on the path of doing was shedding Devenir That willingness to fully be seen all of the scars the beauty whatever consider ugly etc. I think many of us. We're kind of like homes and you know they'll put a layer of paint on the outside. No keep painting in painting and painting and we just have so many layers of paint on us and that's sometimes wind up with the fear that sometimes we end up stuck. That's sometimes when we end up in the funk because we have so many layers I call it the uniform. We wear this uniform for so long. And there's a powerful moment when we're willing stop wearing the quote unquote uniform and get rid of all of those layers of paint. If you will en- get back to the true core of of the chew essence of who we are. You know I think life in many ways it can it can be like a pendulum and we can go to extremes on both sides. I know I've gone to extremes of chaos and I've gone to extremes on the other side of things and I think our job in many ways is define ourselves back in the middle are true are true existence. Were SUPPOSED TO BE. And that's been the journey for me And has been Not always easy. But it's worth it shared earlier about the concept of a benefactor's people supporting you in helping you and your journey to not only pull you out of fun but to create an inspiring and passionate future that you can step into anytime. I talk about friendship which I'm very passionate about and I've done some episodes on this podcast. The number one question I hear from people is. That's great for you and I'm happy that you have this men's group that meets every Thursday that supports each other and that you guys are connected and you have so many talk to. But I don't have anybody like that in my life. In fact not only do I have no one been let down by people with any for anybody who has that history and that baggage and I mean in a kind way right past history past experiences. They don't feel like they have that community. How do they begin to start to recreate a great question? It makes me think about when I was an undergraduate at Western Michigan University. Drew up at tried out for the track and field team and I ended up. Earning a spot on the roster. Now is what you call a walk and the thing is that after two years of being on the team. I was doing absolutely horrible in one day. My head coach came up to me and he said you're doing absolutely horrible but I already knew. But he pointed something out to me and he said I don't know if Tony which we know which folks family family and friends call me. I don't know if you know this but we have to all Americans on our team and he pointed these two men working out drew and these cats one would go on to compete in the Olympics. And another one would go on to compete multiple row championships. Two of the best athletes in the world. He said we have to. All Americans are team but not once have I seen you spend any time with them instead instead. You're hanging out with those guys. And he pointed to a group of guys laying back laughing on the High Matt. They didn't commit any crimes didn't do anything wrong. But I was hanging out with those folks as opposed to the all Americans and what coach Shaw Really. Open me up to that. That day was his idea of having the opportunity to spend time with allies. Those all Americans or thieves. Those people that aren't going to be Aren't GonNa have our best interests so for that man or woman who says I don't have that I got say that the end of the day one hundred percent is our responsibility to find these men and women to be in our lives and we're going to have to be vulnerable to do that one thing. We have to remember when it comes to identifying these allies in our life. Is that these men and women. They may not be our best friends. There may not be people. We talked to every single day but the critical thing is that we have these positive men and women in our life and so I invite you to think about five people you spend the most time with and ask yourself this simple simple question. Do they make you better to the five people you spend the most time with. Do they make you better or not. If they don't ask you start identifying those folks that can make you better to get out a piece of paper in my family. Who are those men and women in my family that I know I can reach out to? Who WILL BE? There are positive that will have my back right. Those folks down. I invite you to think about your community and your friends and months again. Identify those folks you can reach out to who you know will be a positive inspiration. Even if they're not best friends in your life every single day ask you think about your colleagues right now. There's amazing men and women at your jobs that would create an ad. Awesome value to your life and you can identify them. That'd be willing to ask for that support and we can go on and on we can think about people in our community we can think about people in our church we can think about great meet up groups that exist for whether they're in person or virtual. Here's what I've come to learn my life drew and I know you believe this is well. Is that nine times out of ten people. Not only. Are they willing to help you. But they want to help you and and this is a very big and and they can't help you if they don't know you need help. That was one of the big challenge that I had. My life is being willing to ask for help being willing to say I am lost being willing to say. I don't know the next step. Will you help me? And we're always afraid of being judged but most times man people will say absolutely. They can't help you. They will point you in the right direction so indeed is going to be vulnerable. Some people are going to let you down but I invite you still keep moving forward knowing you just one step closer to finding that person as you continue to knock on doors and be clear with your asks. Yan I would add to that. It's like if that's not your family. That's okay that can be a whole other group of people. That's not the same friends. That are the friends that you had in high school earn college because they have different priorities. That's okay but don't shut it down before you go to a new group of people. There's actually something really interesting. And it's documented as a phenomenon. My friend Michael Simmons has written about an Forbes is that are lukewarm contacts. The people that are lies. I mean that's how we started off getting know each other. Antonio is that we weren't really super close friends and then we met through another mutual friend and then through that process hung out a couple of times had some good conversations introduce each other each other's friends and realize like. Wow you both have. We both realized that each other had something interesting offer so we became advocates. And sometimes it's the person that you don't know super well that has all history and baggage of. Here's Antonio here's what he's good at. Here's what he's not good at. No he wouldn't be good for that opportunity no he shouldn't write a book that tends to come with people that have no new throughout your life for good or for worse. They don't often see you in the direction of where you WanNa go so so. Sometimes it'd be. We hear that advice that you were just sharing. They're like okay great. I did that and I was shut down. It's like okay but maybe it's not that group. Maybe it's a different group of people that help you get to the next level. I agree one hundred percent. You put the eloquently and our ad that you're gonNa find that sometimes the people that help you the most no you the least which is always blown me away. Frustrated me but I've released it is well and you're also gonNA find. This is the challenge here. Drew is that sometimes as you grow it can cause tension with other folks in your life. I've found that sometimes it actually can threaten people when you grow. Why because many times your growth? You're making new decisions. You're doing positive. Things is holding up a mirror to others. Many folks that are close to you. It holds up a mirror to what they are not doing in their lives in many ways though they can't articulated they feel like they are being left behind. But once again just because you're going your own way doesn't mean it's the wrong way in one other thing. I want to add regarding relationships is in this is what's great about our men's group and most of my really positive friendships is that we have to be willing to get what I like to call good. Friction messy accountability piece of things. Because agressor when I was in Grad School at Columbia University my Masters Adviser was a Pulitzer Prize winning author. I mean come on the best of the best and I remember. Drew being so hesitant attorney drafts of my master's thesis and the reason why. I was hesitant. Jewish because I knew it would come back covered in red ink and I'd have to do so much work and I feel like at times I'd have to start from scratch in one day. He saw that I was hesitant to submit and to get this feedback and he asked me point blank like Yo. Why aren't you submitting this on time? And I said because of all the reading that's going to be on it. He looked at me any smiled and he said. Don't you know you pay for the Red Ink? My you pay for the red ink and so my thing is as good. Ally is are going to provide wreck hawgood friction and I'll say good friction. I'm talking about something is being constructive. Drew Give me awesome feedback on things many times different projects different endeavor. Sometimes maybe not always easy things to hear been. What's been awesome and consistent about your feedback is that I call it a good friction. Because it's propelling me forward in what I WANNA do as opposed propellant backwards. There's a big distinction we have to do is like we seem. Some people seem to take pride in this whole notion. Oh I'm going to call out. I'M GONNA call her out. I invite you to instead. Call someone up. There's a big difference for a manager or leader cost the went out versus call them up to propel them forward to be better not just today but tomorrow is well super powerful. And I couldn't agree more so much of this comes back to the fact especially as we get older and kids enter into the picture and our lives in. Our routine changes even started with the notion of like. Do you have friends that you can go to and share your goals and dreams with who are excited about it and the next question they're asking is what can they do for you. And how can they support you? I find and Dr Vivid more the WHO is the former commissioner of the FDA as a good friend of my business partner. Dr Hammond he was recently on his podcast. Because he wrote a book about loneliness and how chronic loneliness super chronic illness can be the equivalent up to smoking fifteen cigarettes a day. That's how much of a toll it can take in our health and pre corona virus in the shutdown. I think that life was just getting so busy for so many people with the day to day rat race that many individuals were in naturally so just trying to do their best and keep up with activities of themself. Their partner their kids that even the idea of developing new friendships scratch finding people that would lift us up. A Lotta people would feel like I don't have time for that like where am I going to meet people and get placed on the back burner and I think the silver lining of this time period? Here's with things slowing down. We all ask ourselves individually what matters the most to us. What do we want to take? That's the good side of what's happened. So far and keep bringing into our world as the economy in the world starts to open up. I agree in as you're saying that was put up my brain for folks. Is this notion we talked about dreaming earlier drew And during the time it's important to remember that in at all times is important to remember that your dreams need encouragement. They need to see you. Making those positive steps making that forward momentum creating your own momentum to create good things to happen. I truly believe in a lot of people. Don't like to hear this share this on stages drew but I think we have to be honest with ourselves. I believe that all of our dreams have an expiration date. All those things that we say we're going to do one day. They'll when things change our dreams have an expiration date if we don't act on them one of the great things said about having great people in your life as they help you create that forward momentum people will say I hear what he's saying but you know what man is never too late. But I'll tell you this it's never too late but the longer you wait the harder a gets in other people will say all man. I I hear you but maybe it just wasn't meant to be and I say to. That was it just not meant to be or did you give up and s kind of the call. I call that calling up to people to encourage them to remind them they have a say in their life. And that's what happened to me at some point drew. I forgot that I had a say in my life. And if there's a thesis of the work and I'm going to do not just today but moving forward it is to remind people that they have a say. In their life in the direction they can go moving forward powerful. My friend powerful so I WANNA to talk about one the component here which is when we catch ourself in a funk and there's this realization and we had the intention to want to do it differently approach life differently. Where does the physical body come into play? Was anything that you were doing different because we know that so much energy just even like sometimes when people say I'm stuck. I feel stay all that we know. We're often not moving our body but for you and for the people you've coach. Where does the physical body come into play between our Diet? Lifestyle Movement here thoughts. That physical shoot is I mentioned. I was a collegiate athlete. Movement has always been a huge part of my life when I was going through a call at my My my crisis. As I mentioned I gained thirty pounds. I had stopped working out. I'd grew a beard in an attempt to hide that thirty pound weight gain. Which by the way. It didn't hide it at all Once I started to make some forward progress with that like was regularly working out and sweating going to the gym etcetera and I have a list of five things I do every single day in. Check them off my list and one of those is sweat doesn't need a neat doesn't mean that. I have to run a marathon but I wanna get at least minimum twenty minutes of movement and I've been fortunate to be able to do that consistently even now through the pandemic even though it means getting up at five. Am before my kids. Get up to do that. So movement and sweating is critical. Second part of that of course is is meditation. Meditation doesn't come easy for me but I know for a fact when I get that in every single day even if it's just a matter of ten minutes it's a game changer for me as really I. I consider that movement in some ways our friend like Watkins calls the the Inner Jim the third thing of course and your listeners. Know this is being careful what we're putting in our body and what we're eating. I'm no expert on that but I am smart enough now to know what's going to fuel me in what's going to the plunge me and that's a question. I always ask myself before I make a choice to eat something. Is this going to fuel me? Or is this going to deplenished me a fourth piece that I'll share on that drew and this is a unique one when it comes to movement. I like to equate it to shifting gears in a car and a lot times I think we are like kind of automatic vehicles that are have five years but for some reason we get stuck only driving in one of those gears. Typically second or third. Gary can't go too fast and I don't believe we were meant to his stay in. Just one gear one of the key things that help me make an overall shift not just physically but energetically drew was being willing to make an investment in myself on two fronts. One working with a therapist which many years ago I wouldn't have said that out loud. But that's made a huge difference for me. Individually made a difference from marriage and beyond The second thing is being willing to invest in a coach That I've worked with over the years. I'm a firm believer of something that I think. Most people are methodist. No one who has accomplished no one who has accomplished anything significance. Did it alone and neither should you not feel like sometimes trying to solve our own problems on our own when we again whether we have their group of allies whether we're working with a therapist or working with a coach it can make a huge difference. The irony drew was. I'm a coach and for the longest time. I didn't have my own coach once again. Obviously the sweating that meditation the eating and being willing to seek that outside support. I think plays a huge role in the physicality of things. You know you introduced me to one of your friends. What about for a while? Because I read his E book and we'll be doing a podcast with him to broke brain Basan and he wrote a book called Accountability Effect and one of the things that we talk about in the interview and one of the key. Takeaways of the book is that you know at the end of the day this privileged life. Because if you're listening to this podcast if you have a computer if you have a cell phone if you live in you know we have listeners from all over the world but if you live in a country that has means and access and you're not in a war zone or trying to figure out what your next meal is GonNa come from. There's some version of privilege. That's there that you have access to its scaled. Some people have more people have a lot less. But there's some version of pros. You have access to so you have the capability in access to this and the next question becomes what are you. GonNa do with it and sometimes we see our success as you know. I'm not good enough for. I'm not as successful as these other people and I need to do more in life. It's a place of like I'm behind. I need to do more. But besides inside of the book is basically interesting concept which says you always to the world and what I listen to your content and our conversations Antonio I see part of what you're talking about and share with you is that is not just about getting out of funk this is about getting out of a funk because somebody's counting on you somebody out. There needs your work. Needs your gift that you are born to bring to them. Can you talk about that yet? I to resign. His work is is amazing. I've been following him. He's been a friend for a long time and I'm glad he's on. The podcast look drew. I believe that there can be three dates on tombstone. It can mediate the day you born. The day you gave up in the day you died the day you were born. The day you gave up in the day you died. I look at live in many ways kind of like Las Vegas with all the quote unquote privilege. We have again if we have those things that you just articulated and I just want your listeners. Imagine the there in Las Vegas in and they walk into a casino and they go past the blackjack tables the roulette tables and poker and they find yourself in the sportsbook area. The sports but area is where people bet on Sporting Events Baseball football boxing horse races. You name it now. Imagine if you look up at the the Digital Board. We're all the odds are and what the things are you can bet on in. Imagine if you looked up there and your name was up. There and people were betting on you. The question begs. Would you allow people to bet on you? I believe our goal our mission every single days be willing to do things to not only to get others to Boettner bet on us but most importantly to get ourselves to regularly bet on ourselves every single day you know we talk a lot about the word commitment got to commit. You got to commit one thing. We don't talk enough about Jewish commit because after you make the commitment that's easy which have to recommit every single day to what is most important. I like to think about it in terms of the last thirty days like to ask people sometimes on sages. Think about your last thirty days at work based on those last thirty days at work. If your boss had to make a decision to Rehire you would they immediately say yes that. Let me tell you something. Drew and asked that question sages. There's a lot of laughter uncomfortable laughter then I shipped that question denote if you happen to be married or in a relationship make about the last thirty days of your marriage or relationship if your partner had to make a decision to read Kit Committee you based on those last thirty days. They immediately say yes. That's when a lot of uncomfortable. Laughter happens people start looking down and they don't WanNa make eye contact with me. We can also ask that question as a parent basing your last thirty days of the Which you're kidding mealy went you is mom or dad or has your phone been between you and them for too long or have you said. Give me five more minutes. I'll be right with you. That's for me is what accountability is all about not only being willing to regularly bet on ourselves but knowing that those people in our lives that matter most to us still want. Us Air because we're holding up our end of the bargain drew last year. I was traveling to event in Virginia and I found myself on a plane. Our member smelling fumes in the plane drew and as much as I fly knew something wasn't right in. That was confirmed when I saw the flight attendant on the small plane. That was obviously panicked and she started reading from this book. How BRACE For a possible crash and the pilot. The plane said these wars. I will never forget drew. We are going to attempt in emergency landing and I had this moment drew when I was like. Ain't this some shit and I was of course afraid but also there was a laughing moment inside of me of. Ain't this some shit and I wrote a short text message to mom into my wife in once we got low enough on that plane or excuse me low enough altitude where the bar showed up. I hit send and I was resigned to the fact that this may be the end of things for me. Obviously you and I are talking so we landed okay surrounded by fire trucks and all these different things and I'm okay but what I'm the point I'm trying to get across in the story is don't wait for a life altering event for you to change your life. I want to remind people not to remind myself every single day that you that I am that life altering event. Not only for that car accident to happen. T- free to lose someone. You love. No make that decision today to be that life altering event that is you important message to close on Antonio I super appreciate you coming on the podcast talking about the lessons that are basically a sneak peek into the upcoming book. That are coming out so that feels really exciting to get access to that into. Share your journey and story with us. I think that you're fantastic storyteller. And you've had so much practice speaking and I think ultimately in the day we all just need reminders. There's nothing in this podcast that people are hearing for the first time. There's nothing in any of my podcast for the most part that people are hearing for the first time that we resonate with the and it's a reminder because we step into the story and you so vulnerably shared about your story for our listeners and for myself to step into talk about how people can keep in touch with you talk about some of the projects in the work in the book in the podcast that you have out there so our listeners can continue. The journey in the conversation sure drew. Thank you so much for having me for those folks that. WanNa learn more about me. You can head to the Antonio Knicks DOT COM awesome awesome reports. You can download for free there whether it's on twitter instagram facebook. I'm at the Antonio nerves and of course I would love to give listened to the best thing podcast where talk at people but the best thing ever happened to them. That would rarely show up on a resume. A bio or come up in conversation check on my aunt. My interview withdrew. And those are the key things you can do right now. I'd love to hear from you with any questions. I pretty much respond to. Every may take seventy two hours still pretty much respond to every e mail and Andrew. I can't thank you enough for creating this awesome podcast for for having me on today and it was a pleasure one more. Follow up question for you. I Miles Davis quote a few days ago or weeks ago on Instagram. And it was his famous quote and he says man sometimes it takes a long time to sound like yourself. I'm curious for you. How has it been getting back in the interview? See and what have you learned from doing these interviews on your podcast one? It's been absolutely amazing. It is like a muscle atrophy The muscles something to love that I'm great at and having these conversations with these fascinating men and women has been such a joy The biggest learning versus me being the broadcaster versus me being the podcast hosts. Now I feel like I'm truly me you can hear my voice. You can hear a little bit of much. Twang you can hear me. Maybe even swear every now and then things I wouldn't have done years ago. I think we all know you wash the the guy or the woman on television or heard them on radio talking like this. A welcome to a brand new episode Nolan talks like that and realize and I had that voice for the longest time drew an for me. I I all I WANNA do manage to be me and you know why the reason why just WanNa be me is because the other stuff is so exhausting. People always talk about. Oh just be yourself and it's one of the hardest things. Frankly you can you can do. It takes some time in a journey to do it. But let me tell you something. I feel freer than I've ever felt before in my life doing this podcast and I'm not GonNa Stop the You because that's all you can be in. The world is counting on you and Tonio. Thanks again for joining us on the Bogor Ring podcast. Thank you have you when I hope you enjoy the interview. Just a reminder. This podcast is for educational purposes. Only as podcast not I repeat. It's not a substitute for professional care. By Dr Otherwise qualified medical professional is podcast is provided on the understanding that it does not constitute medical or professional advice or services. If you're looking for helping your journey seek out a qualified medical practitioner. If you're looking for a functional medicine practitioner you can visit I f. m. Dot Org and searched their find provider database. It's important that you have somebody in your corner. That's qualified that trained. That's a licensed healthcare practitioner. Helping you make changes especially when it comes to your health.

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Survivor Story - Tiauna Turns Abuse into Beautiful Music

I'm Not In An Abusive Relationship

43:34 min | 11 months ago

Survivor Story - Tiauna Turns Abuse into Beautiful Music

"I don't need help I'm not in an abusive relationship. This is just how it is for us. It's a lie. We tell ourselves one that many in abusive relationships repeats until they believe it, but there's hope. Welcome to I'm not in an abusive relationship, a podcast about surviving domestic and sexual violence. This show is about hope you will hear from survivors of abuse. Their stories may sound familiar they may even inspire. Hope our goal is to connect with others in these toxic relationships to offer that hope and with support of our mission, anyone willing to help get rid of abuse and our culture. We also talked with the experts in the field from the officers in the front lines of domestic abuse calls to the therapist and advocates helping survivors navigate this complicated road of recovery. If you're in need of help, please visit our website or call our twenty four, seven, hotline eight, hundred, eight, two, eight, two, zero, two, three, and at this is an emergency and you need help immediately please call nine, one one. So welcome to the show I am Dan, producer and occasional host instead of Claudius. Thank you for listening and joining me today is a a woman of many labels I should say. Her name is Tiana, and she is a a a coach, a project manager, a songwriter. She made the last one there based on her post however. When you hear what she wrote and saying, I think you'll agree. So I'm going to play a clip of that real quick come back on our listeners. We could. ACT ON. Dan Brisk. Wind. Bone. Just, be. Honest Live was some. Data. In displaced kids love is and I wish. You? So that is a clip of rewind. and. I just WanNa I, welcome you to the show. Thank you for joining me. Today. Well thanks for. Having me on the show. I'm I'm really excited to be able to you know share my story in a Noah sounds a little strange to be excited about sharing something like this. But if you've ever been in a situation that I've been in and kind of that the quiet that happens around these things being able to openly speak about it is you know an accomplishment in a milestone. So definitely excited to be here. And it takes quite a bit of courage to I recognize the your NSF. And then next to make a choice, they make the effort to leave or to change, and then even more courage come back and speak about so. Thank you for sharing that courage and And just having that. So tell me a little bit. If you would about you will start with you. Then I'm going to hear about the song and how that came about and and then also your story of surviving abuse So tell me a little bit about you where where you from what do you do? WHO IS TANA? Sure well, again, my name's John I'm actually from Michigan from southwest? Michigan grew up really close to Lake Michigan growing up and I had a I would say support of family lots of involvement from my uncles, aunts, grandparents. Grew up in. In one school district where everybody knows everyone else relatively small town and so definitely someone who had a heavy religious. Line lineup as coming up in a coming of age. So a lot of the things that I knew about relationships or expectations were set primarily from being involved at church more than anything else. So you know one of the things that I will say is that what I've discovered is that a lot of times when you have a certain ideal about about a relationship thing definitely that plays out into what you go out and seek to to find indefinitely you know buried positive and optimistic person always have been in indefinitely if it helps me in a Lotta situations. So definitely I would say that US as a relatively solid bringing I did not have a two parent home. I'm growing up. So definitely from a single parent home initially and indefinitely appreciate my background. Educated. So have multiple degrees of went to college at Western Michigan University and graduated with a Masters Degree in accounting and actually college is where I met my former spouse. So I hear you say that you came from a solid family. A good strong faith background a good childhood. And even with that background. You end up with someone who turns out to be as your song says. How Gosh Can you trace how that happened? That's such a big question I know but. Can you kind of see how we're that played out for you? Definitely. I think the one thing that I will say about my childhood, there are abandonment issues I did not grow up with my father. He has severe mental illness and just as a child, I didn't understand why he wasn't in my life you know. So that was the initial. I think. Presentation of this of wanting to belong in wanting to build something that you know in terms of family that would kind of close the gap in one of the interesting things that I found was a driver in how I manage my marriage was the fact that you know I want my kids to have that solid nuclear family because my father wasn't in my life. So that's really the first hard I I think the issue that you know the absence of my father in again later on likely definitely reconciled in definitely I appreciate you know his his experiences but I, didn't I didn't have that as apartment upbringing. So that was a gap that started their. Gotcha. and. So you get into this relationship in college. Where where your first inclinations that things are going? Wrong. where it wasn't where you weren't in a healthy relationship. So the interesting thing is there's a a large gap between me and my my ex and it's eleven years. So I'm twenty nineteen, twenty years old in college doing well involved with a lot of activities and. Took a class where just happens he was in his class in I was in class that neither one of US wanted to take it. Right? We was not at the top of our list we just needed to continue. So I met him actually in Afrikaner Women's Women's studies class of places. And you know he was asked to say either majoring or minoring in African studies in 'em. EMT's looking for an elective of a business college student, and that's where we met and he had a lot of interesting ideas. A lot of thoughts that I thought were contrarian in me being you know young intellectual I just looked at that as you know like the assertiveness around being bold enough to share information even if it's not popular so we ended up talking. From that perspective but otherwise, I didn't know him until the moment. So we took that class he bob with Youth Development. So you know where I'm from there are a lot of at risk youth in. So he worked actually a youth development where back in my hometown in. So to bring the kids to campus enemy wanted me to speak to them. So so we kind of developed a relationship from their started off really smooth in easy and then I think the. Thing. That gave me comfort in his probably happens to a lot of people with maybe religious backgrounds as the fact that he shared the same faith. So you know you feel like man, this could be the thing networks out really well, maybe this guy could be the one. So definitely early on, we didn't have a lot of red flags there but you know definitely than with pace that I was saying would be abnormal in any other context other than will you? Know God bring someone in your life. It doesn't take a long time for you recognize it must get married. We did that but looking back at the Diam now and looking at the situation that in itself was a red flag, the fast pace of meeting someone talking to someone, and then wanting to talk about marriage not You know like I said it's common in religious circles to to do that but definitely that that should have been a red flag to me. And then so you get married. You're moving forward with your life. Did how did the relationship take a turn that that point? To start becoming what you would classify abusive. Really quickly actually so it started off marriage in April. and. There were inklings of trouble in the first two weeks. I remember being a among about a month in and we were going back and forth about something as simple as I think adamant even the Bible right is this concept in this notion in at this point, he was a everything's East Fun of like. Well, you know doesn't get off the hook because you know if you're familiar with the Bible story, it's all about Adam and Eve disobeyed God in. You know he was like it's it's her fault and he was really adamant about that and that was the first. Thing that I remember is like his response to me just saying. I don't think that's the whole way to look at. It was really. A more explosive than the situation called for so you know that was like the first time where I was going oh no what what did I do here let me try to you know be a a good person and be a good wife and maybe this will blow over use prayer and other. Things to to manage that. It definitely was pretty is starting to go downhill pretty fast. The other thing that I think really in looking back at this, you kind of. Wish I would have seen is the fact that he made it a point early on I don't believe in birth control right? So this is after we're married I'm in school he's in school still his unbelievable birth control I do but I don't want to infringe upon his beliefs. So we did not use any prevention methods and I did get pregnant by August that same year. So controlling. Your space controlling your body. It's hard to say should have but 'cause you can't. You can't should've could've yourself into a hole but. That's a red flag for you now is seeing that he wanted to control your body in in your family. Es Yet. And so of course, with you know the pregnancy, then things spiral from there. But again, I was in a marriage for thirteen years and there were red flags month to the interesting thing about it is that you can explain away things You know well this maybe it's this maybe it's that. So maybe comes along and I'm still doing well in school I'm working all the way through the pregnancy, but we start to have trouble financial troubles and. I'm in school for County for financial management. So I know what I'm being taught what to do, but he brought in to the situation a considerable amount of debt poor debt collections in things of that nature that I had no idea about he did not. He did not represent that accurately. So I would say probably around September is when the phone call started from collectors asking me to pay beings that I had no knowledge of at all in you know try to get him the work with that in pits into an just would not. So that was already another red flag where not being completely honest about his background in you know where he was with certain things like credit. That's a major hesitation for marriage not a minor one and I didn't know enough to know that. But when my belief system marriages forever and you just figure it out and so at that time I was just like it is what it is. Just we're just GONNA have to manage it. and. So you said thirteen years remarried. Acquiesce. When. When someone? So as an organization day says often and as volunteers in employees, we often hear this next question in its. This has meant not to. Judge where you were I after thirteen years. But just to get a sense of how you got to where you were and what you told yourself, when someone were to ask you why you why didn't you just leave? What or what was it the finally made it happen for you what's what's your response to that to help you understand? My situation of interesting because there wasn't a lot of physical abuse. Right I think a lot of times we say ourselves At least you know people who have not been throw it in. Eben. Myself. You just go. Well, I'm not being beaten. Right, I'm not being. Choked I'm. Not. Being strangled. I need to rely upon my belief system. In forgive and work it forward because I said, you know I made bows and so I didn't see it as an option early on because there always is a cycle with these kinds of things where there's a bad behavior right? There's leader. So it goes in a predictable cycle there's elite up where. Near agitating, you don't know why on pins and needles then something relatively simple happens blows a gasket you know this Rampage and then there's a Oh I'm sorry. If you know you triggered by doing these things, maybe I didn't act the way I should, but here's what you need to work on. There's a let me you know. Will you back into being comfortable here and then there's the next build up to the cycle. So because of that, they would be spaced a certain way. You know there's this blow up in. There's this calm period I just thought they were one-off incidents and I never tied them together until several years in I may have been at baby number two before I realized I think we have a problem. But I it was just always one thing or another where I felt like it wasn't a good time. So when I was in college, it wasn't a good time because we had this baby to take care of them. We needed each other to work around schedules and other things. So you know we had this escalation pattern going on there was a lot infidelity early on as. Well you know after the first child was born in sought council, right? What should I do in a situation in accounts I received his stay and work it out if he's willing to work it out, you should be willing to work it out and that's what I got for a really long time even at the end from certain people that you know you would expect. Would have different advice sometimes, people just can't see past their own. Beliefs or or their own life situation. So there were definitely times where I did seek advice, but it was not impartial advice unfortunately. And how does that feel? So many years later. That that advice came with such a bias. I understand it. You know it helped me actually to understand why people stay even in physically abusive situations. Right because again, I I made the. Alluded to the fact that physical abuse is really deceit, but that doesn't mean it's in easier to leave for me. It was always well, it can't be that bad anything as long as the people who are repentant and want to be different give them a chance because you know you wanna just keep working it out for the sake of kids or for your belief system or for your religious background or whatever. So I didn't leave because I thought things would be different next time and that's the interesting thing it. There's that I think I alluded to being positive in. At the beginning when I talked about myself, that optimism helps get you through hard times but sometimes Can. Keep you in hard times in in this particular situation my optimism didn't help as much as probably you know being more realistic about things would have. Optimism can keep you in hard times. That's that's that's huge. As good as optimism can be, it can also be that. That negative thing. My goodness. Geno what is it? Can you remember a specific point where you said? Okay. This has to stop I need to leave I. We need to make this change. Is there a particular incident or particular thought or particular piece of advice any of that? Came to help you make that. I conscious decision that has to stop. Him I had a moment of clarity in its. You know it's actually to tell a story in order for to help people understand why finally left. So you know three kids later many years later we were up to maybe year twelve almost thirteen right right before year thirteen mark you know. I was. exhausted. So you know managing a career managing three children and my mom come up because I had a trip to Florida to Kinda help out with the kids and and she would just constantly asked me are you WanNa take nab? He looks tired. Is there anything else I can do and by this time had gotten into a pattern with my ex where he did nothing right? Nothing for the kids there were no bath story times. There were was no sharing of responsibilities. We both had jobs, but I had the heavier burden for a lot of the things that require the day to day management. So I was exhausted I was up until maybe two am packing my belongings for this trip and leaving out so I remember getting to the airport heading out. It was maybe it was David Bounties Day. Where ten PM call home just check on everybody. Check on the kid. It was maybe a ten minute conversation I. Love You I. Love You too goodbye. I would say within seven minutes I, get a text message from this woman who says, tell your husband to stop calling me in that way. Down can't tell them what to do. You tell them will I did and I was like, well, you know I wanNa tell you everything that's been going on for last six years, right. So the six year long affair with someone at. Where worked previously in what? I realized by talking to this woman was that a few years prior to that I'd lost everything in a sense. We had a home we both had jobs were getting ready to purchase a house and he lost his job. I didn't know that he lost his job because of this relationship that he was having side. In he even says into Zeta hit it really know that that was the reason why they didn't renew his contract. But when that happened it through us into a financial pit that took me maybe six or seven years to get out of after that and I had no idea that this was all because of this relationship which he maintained year so as the treatment of me worsened. Going on in the background and so I realized we'll this lady is older than our youngest child. She's been around longer than my youngest child had been at that point in time, and that was just like what else do you have the lose other than your health right. So for me lost my credit standing lost my four one K. cashing it out to save the Family Multiple Times over bad financial decisions Stayed at home for a little while but had to go back to work because the family was in trouble because he decided to purchase a truck and trade in my paid off car to do that and so by the time, I got to this point in time I just took an objective assessment and said Okay What you lost over the years where you at now and what else do you? Are you willing to lose at this point? I still had enough self respect that I wasn't gonNA just. Take. This particular situation in just turn it over and be forgiving I just said. The next time it could be a phone call about a disease. The next time it could be a phone call about something else the next time somebody can attack you because of the relationships that you know nothing of where are you GonNa do? What are you want? What are you GonNa do now you've got all of these things going for you on the career side luckily, I always invested in myself in that way. And I just said I can't carry this anymore I don't have anything else lose other than myself completely. WAKEUP call. And again, I go back to in the beginning well, how how courageous? That is. To make that assessment and make that decision so I'm so grateful you did. Now Part of why I'm grateful because years later now you have written and recorded this song. Sokolow rewind where did this song? Come From and why did you release this on facebook So actually one of the things that I did when I left my marriage three years ago was. decided to design a life because I started from scratch I did have a job. So I had income I had that going for me but I didn't have. A car I didn't have a house. I didn't have my. Literally my own clothes and that was it and started over. So when I got my house I didn't even have your credit. So the landlord had to just written me the house based on my comment in luckily for me was enough to to afford to do that but I had to start over when I designed my life. One of the things I wanted to do is not live in fear because I spent so much time being afraid to leave being afraid that you know he always threaten on the kitchen new you know you you you were the primary. Income Earner and I'm GonNa do this do that and make no mistake i. went through the worst of times through the divorce process because difficult person is going to be any less difficult before because you left. Right. So at the start investing in myself, I did therapy I did go to counseling just to get through the divorce in in have. It's nice about therapists say this this is GonNa go because of the kind of person that you're dealing with. You can expect to see these things in everything she listed out for me I did see. But at the same time, going through counseling did help me to understand what is it? What is it? That really want next? How do I put my life back together would do I do I believe in myself? How do we build that back up because you know if you go through this kind of experience for too long, you'll start to believe things about yourself that aren't true. So you have to go back and find these pieces in and find your way back to who you really are in that process would I ended up doing which I'm grateful that I had the mind the do this throughout my marriage I kept a journal. I kept a journal when I, go back and look at it. Let me know that wasn't as blinds I thought I was. I saw things that my reality is there nine or ten years worth of information that helped me to understand this toxic situation in who I became in that situation in order to just like have this holding pattern. This survival mode is what I call it where it's just one crisis after the next in there isn't one. There's one main factor to just to keep doing toes that was dependent of my life You know I it was just happened again there were some things that I did that enabled it but there were something the other person did and wing your in a situation like that bring a worst in each other, and that's where the sun came from. It was like a at decided to take a singing class in I've been writing music in and just kind of nurturing some of these other towns and interests that I have. And I thought about it. I thought about even in divorce how difficult it is still to deal with my ex regards to parenting in sharing parenting co-parenting and I just I decided just to put it on paper because you can't go back right it's the the song talks about if we could turn back the hands of time in press, we whine what do this all over again don't pretend because we know what both toxic and I'm just being honest in his in his Attack Society. Is on both sides because you have to get into a pattern that becomes kind of a subconscious action right? I remember one time I'll give you an example I remember one time where. Somebody asked me a question. I can't remember what the question was. It was just like a normal conversation and the way they exit question prompted like this anger. Inside of me. And I realized. I had enough tools to walk myself back through to say this anger is far exceeds this conversation. What is this and it was auto response, an auto defensive mechanism that I built over years because whenever I heard that question usually a fight was coming it wasn't just a simple innocent question, right so those are the things that you have to kind of unravel when you leave a situation and try to put the pieces of your life back together acknowledged that you've been changed in a sense experience, but it doesn't define you. You've been change, but it does not define you. In this, and again, the on listeners you heard it. Earlier on it's such A. It's I don't know for me. It was such an enveloping song brought me into it. I could feel the emotions that could see it. You know it was so. authentic and vulnerable Is. Was it. Was it therapeutic for you an innocence? Yeah it was because it's it's Kinda like. One of the things that I've learned you know since leaving is you didn't turn anything. You'RE PASSIONATE ABOUT ANYTHING MED drives you to any kind of motion really you can turn it into art because Germany was so therapeutic and because I love music putting, those two things together may sense for me for some other people may be art for other people. It may be something else or or creating jewelry, it may be anything creative can help you. Like a release, somebody starts in some of these ideas notion so that you can move forward. So for me, that was a milestone moment because being a I was afraid to sing. Publicly that was year that I had I did not believe that I had. You know talent in that regard. So it was kind of like, Hey, face this because you want to try it, do it even though you might be afraid it just kind of pushing those boundaries in using my experience to write something that hopefully inspire someone else. Was the point but definitely journaling speaking at took a public speaking since I left too which was another thing that I was not really comfortable with and being able to kind of share some Upbringing background with other kids across the country that was really another avenue for me to really talk about you know the fatherless background and some of those other difficulties in band growing up in a inner city neighborhood at some of the challenges of people telling you can't do something when you can and those things kind of helped me to get brave enough to do this but it was not overnight in the one thing that anybody who's in a situation like the one I was in it's not gonNA happen overnight it's GonNa be a process. You may not have all the answer. You may not even know where you're gonNA stay in some cases you may have to face the very thing that you were afraid to face to be free, and even with that, you have to maintain your freedom by having boundaries but all those things gradually no one should feel like they have to have everything figured out to take a I. You shouldn't have to feel like you had everything figured out in order to take your first step such a great advice to. An and I think that's part of what we've talked about on. The show before, is it Liz something similar? Arthur. You don't have to know the end to take the next step so very well said. And data how are you using this experience today that new mentioned some public speaking you're you are as part of what you do professionally your coach. Does, your experience play part and all of that as well. Gosh, I think all of our experiences. Are Collectively defined where we are today in help us give us context for where we want to be one of the things I've been very intentional about in. You know in starting back with dating things of that nature is what is it that I'm I I want in a relationship and being able to identify what I don't want, and there have been times where been dating that I had to let you know let situations go because i. saw the signs in a really did a lot of research on narcissism in narcissistic abuse. Some of these things where you it helps you realize that your situations not as unique as you thought, it was even though it's you and one other person in your relationship. Some of these patterns supersede just an individual understanding and being able to see that. Video after video you to book after book article after Article I started to see that is not unique. To me is not just me I'm not by myself going through these things in a predictable and because predictable because there's a body of work to define what it is it means that you can understand enough about it to avoid going forward. So one of the things that I did, I. Did that research network and then looked at places where I might have been codependent was looking for approval was approval seeking person how do you change that How do you put those boundaries in place? It's a when I work with Individuals Mentoring coaching I I definitely use the notion up. especially. When it comes to not just the relationships but even jobs or you can have a job that is toxic for you meaning that you don't have boundaries in feel like your needs are being met nor king voice that knows those situations. Lynn themselves to helping. This experience is helpful for that. So I definitely used on a regular basis. Yeah. and. One of the. One of the things I wanted to ask. During our conversation actually comes from our executive director Interim Deborah Hackworth. She wanted me to make sure that I ask you what keeps you going? And such a huge question. What what do you think it is that keeps you going today after facing all of this. I think it's the realization that I have value. You know I have value by just being me. And there's never there's been some dark days way for like my do I even try right I've had days like that when I was married in even outside of it there there's GonNa be some times where where you're gonna be by yourself but just know that you have value you don't have to have everything perfect. You don't have to be perfect. You don't have to have all the answers to value and because I know I have value then. I'm not going to give up because there's so much more value to uncover. Every day is GonNa bring me something new. Sometimes I'll be disappointed sometimes I'll be elated. But I know my life. Of, our stories detail to add the collective. And I believe that my experience is who I am add value to the collective as well. So it is definitely a start with just things can be better seeing yourself as someone with value and being able to to know that somebody's going to be up some days are going to be down, but every day is still works. Take a next step. Yeah Dan I can't thank you enough. This has been incredible. Thank you for sharing your story and. Inspiring others. Thank you for the music. Any last advice for someone listening right now that maybe. Can hear themselves their story in yours or see themselves in your shoes. Yeah. silenced in secrecy aren't your friends A lot of times things we go through, we keep to ourselves because we've been taught you WANNA keep people out of your business or you don't want people to look at your partner certain way if you're not gonNA leave in all these things that go on the back of your mind. When you're in a situation is unhealthy but. Sometimes, having at least one person that isn't close to the situation somebody who just cares about you who knows understands what's going on? It's GONNA benefit you. You know people people who love you. And WanNa see you live your best life. They aren't going to. Reject you because of what you're going through but definitely keeping. Your struggle a secret is only just gonNA further isolate you. So definitely even if it's somebody, you don't know even if it's going to see a therapist even if it's just On social media, assuming that you have access to these things I, know some of don't right have enough freedom to even make a phone call. But anything you can do to connect yourself with people who really love and care about you know who you really are. That's going to be helpful. Even if you don't make any other changes today, that's something I would recommend right away his talking about it with somebody that you trust. Great Advice So. Folks. The the show notes have a link to China's full song rewind and the Oh in in the post you say, find somebody with great vocals to do this I really enjoyed your rendition who who, who would you have do it. If, all your dreams come true. Well, you know I think Jennifer. Hudson would be amazing. If I could pick by singer she she do a amazing job. I'm sure are somebody's listening in you know Jennifer Hudson and get this tour police. She would but but yours was was amazing. So again, thank you so much for being a part of this in for telling your story town. Thank you for having me Dan. Appreciate that. Everybody. Thirty Day singing. and. Projects. The songs a song I wrote. So now that I'm at the end of the CLARIS. Share except. If we could. Turn. Brisk. Wind. A. Old. Axes pick. On Avenue we were Rubio. Five was. Own. Data. Here in place to. Love is. Wish I if. You. Ever forget e you. Put. An spring. ME. Again. All still little daisy we argue like very easy. On A. Thing. Looking for some things to hold onto. was. Do. You. Time we approve up, we win just lose. If We could. Actor. Bruce Three Blonde. Airbus. Joe Speed. On it and If we could. Talk. Engrossed. Wind We. Joe's being. God let it. Is. A. Just. Thank you for listening to I'm not in an abusive relationship. If these stories resonate with you in you need help please visit our website D. S., A. S. M. I. Dot Org. That's basis. Am I dot Org or call our hotline eight, hundred, eight, two, eight, two, zero, two, three we are here to walk alongside you. Have you know someone who might benefit from our show? Please share. Social media email simply telling someone about it. All help us spread the word now to combat domestic and sexual violence. We also welcome financial and volunteer support that information is our website. Thank you to the staff volunteers and board directors domestic and sexual abuse services. This podcast is produced with the help of a committee dedicated advocates. Thank you to W. B. E. T. radio in sturgis Michigan for the use of their studio. This has been a podcast about surviving domestic and sexual violence and production domestic and sexual abuse services of Michigan.

Michigan WanNa Dan US Jennifer Hudson Dan Brisk Joe Speed TANA Tiana Western Michigan University A. Thing Lake Michigan project manager producer Airbus facebook Adam
073   Hamtramck w/ Tiny Jag

Van Lathan's The Red Pill

1:02:41 hr | 2 years ago

073 Hamtramck w/ Tiny Jag

"Jet made the white people that you're also listen. You're one one of the more fascinating characters twenty nineteen so far you are because it was because I was so like I'm on. I'm on vacation right. I'm on the beautiful island of Anguilla and I read a headline. The headline says thanks not a flex Alex Anguilla we go there and willow and we and I read the headline. The Headline Says Artists Refuses to play festival were white people are charged double double. The first thing I thought was wow. How can I buy tickets to this festival? Were white people charged double then I thought what an interesting stand to take <hes> and I'm sure that it put you in the crosshairs and in the spotlight in a way that maybe you didn't think that it would first of all tell us a little bit about yourself and then we'll get into that. Like how long have you been doing music like what what's your music acolyte before we get into what brought you to us. Let's talk about what brought you to you so until two a little bit about total about yourself so my name's Jillian <hes> it's my first name I am <hes> multifaceted faceted to be honest with you but as far as music it is very <hes> passionate for me because it's an outlet for me. <hes> it wasn't always I used to be very heavily influenced by my environment when it comes to music and I was unhappy when I was doing music <noise> at that time until I realized that it was outlet for me <hes> as far as my background I grew up in traffic and east side of Detroit as well as the suburbs so hamtramck a small town inside of Detroit is completely surrounded by Detroit. <hes> it's super odd it's only two miles wide very small little town like super melting pot all types of people there <hes> I love the town of death but <hes> heavily influenced by Detroit of course <hes> but but <hes> it is it's on its own little town so when I was born I lived there for several years moved to the east side of Detroit <hes> when I was born into my mother who is mixed race who's Biracial woman my <hes> grandmother who has a white woman and and my grandfather who has her husband not my biological grandfather but the only grandfather I've ever known who's the white man as well so <hes> from very early on white people around you period right absolutely <hes> from from jump <hes> my like my white grandmother would this was the first person to hold me so <hes> so yes from very little and she beat your Mama to the Punch Dale why people always gonNa take just joking but no that she she beat her to a lot of punches. That's that's important though she to a lot of punches because my mom was grinding and <hes> I was with that grandmother grandfather ton which is <hes> which is huge for me and for a lot of things but <hes> from there my grandparents moved move to <hes> Kentucky and we stayed we moved to the east side of joy so during that time I was spending a lot of time with them during the summer spending my summers on the farm <hes> helping my grandpa bail hey you know we're on the on the farm with goats and chickens and cows Rosen all type. That's where all types of Shit and so <hes> from there you know but I'm spending my the school year the academic year at on these out of Detroit you know and but I'm in private private school so I'm a private school. I live on the block but you know I go. My spend my summers three months out of the year on the farm so it's got what's going on and <hes> from there. We couldn't afford tuition no more so <hes> we moved my mom could afford suburban taxes mourners you. Could you know private schools. What's changed it made you guys couldn't afford the tuition anymore? Well honestly my mom was having payless paydays her job and so <hes> that that's what was happening and we just couldn't afford it anymore so I went to a private school in the suburbs which was a bit of a culture shock for me a bit because I was always doing like academy dance in the suburbs <hes> but I wasn't living in the suburbs so so the residential part of it was different for me but it definitely opened up my eyes to a lot of things from there I went away to school <hes> predominantly white institution <hes> Western Michigan University Okay Hello Oh and and that was cool and came back right where I started. I I moved back to him when I got out of school so full circle and <hes> had a lot of experiences throughout that were a lot of different hats <hes> I've done corporate. I've done retail. I've done music you know independent <hes> fulltime <hes> a lot of a lot of different hats so seen a lot of different things have very particular type type of tolerance but everything brought me back to the music because that's outlet for me. I'm I'm very peaceful person and very understanding person and that's only because I allow myself to have outlet like I do like music and <hes> so you so you you're you're. You're they contact contact you. You're going to do the festival right. The Future Festival in Detroit is the festival that we're talking about the festival. That's the name of it future ever future and <hes> this festival apparently had a policy to where <hes> there was a tickets where forty dollars dollars quick for me if I'm wrong if you are white and if you are black the tickets I think were ten and twenty bucks right yet. They had like early bird thing so you have ten and twenty and then twenty and forty twenty twenty and forty yet <hes> and why read so I'm <hes> to to come back to and I'm on vacation on Mike. Wow <hes> I re- to source at the same time the one I read the story about you pulling out of the festival and I read the stories that are going on about the festival itself when they write these things right them from different points of view one is from point of view the person who refused to perform the other one is the point of view of just what the festival is doing and the question about whether or not that's appropriate and I read it then. I'm not going to recall it now. I think the gist of why they were doing this was has to make up for what was the fact that a lot of festivals that are geared toward African Americans and African American youth they felt like eventually got co opted by white patrons white corporations and in order to offset that they they wanted to give <hes> black people DISAPP- people of Color I should say because it was people of Color Nice. Black People <hes> a discounted rate to get into these places. That's what they said on their website. How did you learn about that and in? How did you learn that that's what they were doing because obviously when you agree to participate you must have not now correct? So when did you learn about that. And what was your first response when you your first reaction when you heard about it. I'm glad you asked that it's very I think it's very important that the way that I learned about it <hes> mm-hmm was from a childhood white friend of mine who fights a lot of anxiety and finally brought herself to support her man's. You know what I'm saying and at a at a very public and you know event that would definitely probably trigger some anxiety for her but she she was ready to do that and that was what she was <hes>. She says she has a problem with big crowds period as she was going to go to support you know it's a trigger with anxiety know how this how this can go right <hes> and then when she got there she saw that the tickets were more expensive for different for her right exactly and the only thing that she sent me she just screen shot at it since it to me like I bet you didn't know about this is what she said and I never even got back to her. Because of how I felt about it one because I had no idea and that was going to be and that's going to be the main reason why it was a thing for me at all because I didn't know about it. That's the only reason why it ever became became public because I had already supported it and so- unknowingly and <hes> I was triggered because I was I felt as if the war was over my is about something that I had agreed to put my name on and that was unfair and on top of that it was something that affected me and my makeup and not only that but those who I have great relationships with and a little bit of care for me as an and artists would have went a long way in reference to everything that I just mentioned so I was very triggered by the situation. Had you known. I'm assuming you wouldn't have done it right right. <hes> do you feel like them. <hes> do you feel like not knowing was something that the organizers of this festival did purposely or do you feel like they just didn't feel the need to tell you that there was a difference in the price of the tickets. I think it was done purposefully because of that. Maybe <hes> maybe even sub-conscious I will give enough credit to say sub-conscious but <hes> that they're they're you know there's going to be backlash there and so to keep as many agreeable people in the loop and as many liabilities to your mechanisms out of the loop is definitely a <hes> beneficial for a very <hes> limited view but I think that's the view that was being taken at the time and I say that because I feel like the whole event was <hes> hoping that it would be done under the scope under the radar and you don't think they wanted people to know that they were doing this. It was it was it was <hes> it was the kinfolk thing you know what I'm saying. It was never supposed to reach all this. You know the principles bigger now than it ever has been period that will I don't believe that was the goal <hes> the goal was to make it a is on the block is on the block is on the east side of Detroit on the block like it was supposed to be some Kinfolk Shit like period. It was never supposed to be any of this and <hes> I feel like that exact thought. Process is the exact thing that made me feel like it was cool and. <hes> I get that I'm not to death understand that I'm not too dense to understand this was forrest by us. You know not deep concept <hes> but it wasn't done right and that's just really the bottom online to it. It wasn't done right and <hes> there's no other way to put that I couldn't behind it because it wasn't done properly and <hes> there's a way that we can definitely make take a stand on discrepancies and equity. There's a way that we can move the needle on that <hes> but I feel I feel that requires depth. I feel that requires a little bit of critical thinking a requires stealth penis is Lau <hes> <hes>. Why do we have to be self? <hes> the things the things that were done to us. We're pretty loud. They were absolutely how do they go. They work out for the people that did them too. They worked out amazing. You feel you feel as if they worked out for the people there still being fought. Ah But we're we're fighting. Do you want to be in their position. No it didn't work out. Well depends on how you look at it right right you. You wouldn't even you don't even want to be in their position but I love my. The only reason why is because of my so what you're saying that didn't work. Oh you don't want to be there. So why do something. That's going to get you where you don't WanNa be this is this is why I define it as having worked for them because they got done exactly what they want to have gotten done so so so so the way I look at things in this entire prism. Is your goal what you wanted to do based on. How close did you get okay now for me? There's a certain set part of that is because of my community because of my mother and my grandmother and the moral values that I have there's a way way that I know part of this has to do with growing up where I grew up in south Louisiana Baton Rouge Essay every podcast and I'll say now <hes> but there's a sense of morality and fairness that I believe has a Michelle African Americans <hes> but it has not been shown to African Americans on accident. It's been shown has Michelin on purpose right. <hes> the reason why hasn't been shown on purpose is to set up a Casas where certain group has all the advantages in America and they want these advantages so they can will significant cultural corporate <hes> economic and military power so whereas I wouldn't WanNa be them they would want to be them so it's working for them so the only question question out of half I appreciate the stance you may because if you look at the things that you're that you're talking about through only moral prison prison. There's no way to disagree with you like there's no way to disagree that it is unfair to charge March one group more than another group to attend the concert. There's no way to disagree with that. The only thing that I would say and this comes from thirty nine years of really being of observing serving America trying to participate in America and striving for things in America. Why does it always us who has to care about fair? I'm of preference by say. It feels good to Piss. Don't get me wrong. You know this is pissing. Though this is pissing like is chess. You know what I'm saying. This is a checkers move is loud and it's and it's only matters that as loud because his checkers it's not even we talking. We're talking festival. That's on the east side of Detroit. That's trying to tell tell me that we're doing this to bridge equity get and we're charging an extra ten dollars for every white head. <hes> we talk on a capacity of two hundred people. Why be wasn't coming anybody that was white that was coming with my fans so we talk in on a good day? Double my phone with this shit. You know what I'm saying so on a good day then I'm bring especially on to the east side of Detroit. I might have been bringing out Fam- hit me up yeah. You know what I'm saying. You bought the bridge equity gap with ten dollars on her head. You're trying to say something. You're not actually trying to make these gangs. You're not actually really putting their work to get this taken care of this is just loud and rude and if you WANNA be Lau and Rue as smart I'm cool with that. If you want to be Lau and Rue and right I'm cool with it. If you want to be Lau Eru as accessible I'm on but y'all allow ru wrong and we still broke. I have a problem with that and I don't know about it so now I'm Lau route and broke which you solve a problem with you. That's where I'm at with it. It's really that simple. It's nothing it ain't got shit to do with my granny that that was emotional for me. You know what I'm saying. I couldn't imagine being up there. Singing the songs that I sing off of a mix tape that's named after my grandmother as she paid double getting here trying to reach a goal that this even set up to reach Yeah Trust. That's what I'm not. I'm not here for that. What I am here for is to make sure that I don't believe in off no bandwagon shit? That's for sure and to definitely uphold the things that made me what but I am when I sit in front of you today. I'm sleeping at night so that's that's really all it was about if it would have been done properly and professionally we wouldn't I wouldn't be here. I wouldn't have this conversation with you. That was this is lit but and also let me know where people are. You know what I'm saying. I have my own plans. I have my own blueprint. I have my own chess game set up for moving the needle with the platform that I create and my team creates and the people that believe in me create for myself is not Lao ruining wrong though you know what I'm saying we don't have to be stealthy atchoo stealth and I have that right and I would have chose it. Had the opportunity been brought to me in the first place. I choose to go that way because because I see success at the end of doing it the way that I see done. They want to do it the right way and I and I'm trying to get somewhere. You know what I'm saying like. We saying here talking about this the festivals for children in a festival for that the let's charge everybody fifty dollars. Let's get this okay. Are we trying to equity. We're trying to do charity. You know what I'm saying. A very close friend of mine made that point you can't do both. We don't want it to other. Are we doing charity for these kids or equity in the black community. What's up? What's what's going on? It's just is not well thought AWW and I'm not going to it's not anymore shady than that. It's just not well thought out in my opinion are pulled out of it publicly because I supported it publicly and they got an do turn it on nobody or no communities are no racist or being confused or being in Cape Infra. Nobody it ain't none of that Shit Shit was done unprofessionally. I wasn't even aware of what's going on. You know what I'm saying. I agreed to do the out of the goodness of my heart. I'm not being paid compensated. We want to talk about black equity. <hes> that's so you know it's not even that type of thing tae something my grandfather <hes> Quinnell is owned grocery store saw Baton Rouge Louisiana Ellis Groceries <hes> integration actually fire black owner of grocery store way <hes> owner grocery store. If you came to the grocery store and you were white you're GONNA pay my grandfather came into his grocery store and you're black you might give you some credit probably would give you the credit as it was explained to me. Why this existed existed <hes> he's pointed to much more colorful turnstile explain the basic gist of it? The basic gist of it is this the white man that is that is found himself in this neighborhood in the bottom southbound route might be here for whatever reason he's coming in here. He wants a beer. He wants to chocolate milk. He wants a bag of chips. He can pay for it the people in this in this community I know what they go through. I know what they have and what they don't have their my neighbors and my friends <hes> and people around I know sometimes they got it. I know sometimes they they ain't got it because of this this sort of system of privilege that would bring a white man to him in the system of sort of denigration that would bring the people that are in the neighborhood to him. He decides these people needed more so I charged them. Less this other guy he might have it. He might not have it but the reality is. I'm less tethered to his experience and I know that he's in a different social class so he's got a bigger burden. Do you have a problem with that idea. Was It on the window. What do you mean that <hes> the the price discrepancy? Was It on the window. No this was this was my grandfather who owned it and this was the way he looked at dealing with his community right and dealing with people from outside of his community he felt like he had <hes> a fiscal obligation to his store but a moral obligation to the people that lived lived in and around South Van Rooch to do things a little bit different. Let's get it. I mean I'm here for that is not it's wasn't there was a situation in concert. The reason I ask what the window is that it gives people the opportunity to come in here learn learn which is trying to do learn a story what's going on here. <hes> and it's also comma stealthy. There's not a window on the is not caught shop here if you're black you know what I'm saying. Is something else going on. There had been call shop here. If you're black I don't know success as successfully they come in. They burn the store down. Maybe so maybe this is something and they didn't what actually killed his store was the fact that when niggers got the opportunity and I'll say just like that go shopping winn-dixie and Allison's and Walmart and Nash Shop in the store that that fed them and kept them alive. That's what they went and did so that's a whole nother conversation is not though that same thought is the same thought that is bred by Yanni to pay ten dollars more. That's what breeds that thinking know what breeds thinking that you need to pay ten dollars. More is the fact that we felt like for so many years that freedom was in that true freedom and equality in America was in somebody else's neighborhood. It's really an our neighbor X. fat but the way that we keep things in our neighborhood sometimes is to make is to incentivize as those things staying in our neighborhood. I love it and one way to do that would be the charge people in our neighborhood a little bit less to get into them. I feel that I'm not I'm not against that as a as a theory I'm not against that Qadam is a good conversation well. We will we reckon. We all right now. Let's go ahead. I'm sorry thank you for this is not you know we'll get to do this. <hes> yeah no as a theory. I'm here. You know what I'm saying and that's I. I really am grateful for these types of platforms so that could say that because that's part of the chess game is part of the blueprint like it off top is but was not part of the blueprint is pissing off them up with the most cheese. That's not part of the blueprint <hes> just because audits I or just because I'm emotional or just because I'm at my wit's end or frustrated or God damnit like that's not part of the blueprint that's emotional. It's not part of the business one of the things that was thrown at me. When I was taking these stances about this she was there? We not a business why book me I booked by businesses. You know what I'm saying like this. You're trying to do too much. We try to do emotional shit. We trying to do business shit. We trying to do equity shit. We're trying to bleed from the heart. We're trying to do all this. You Know No. We don't see how it works when we did it. That's not it Hausa work when we do it. Don't look where we are being emotional. Why people are being emotion? Yes Haussa with with good right. Look look what's put in front of us. It's every five seconds and a lot of emotional about the wrongdoing to us. We're being emotional about things that we are completely in our right to be emotional about. If all we want to end up as some expressive ass mother fuckers. Let's get it what will be your view of not not being emotional but what would how are we being emotional and what would be not being emotion. One thing is we're feeding our soul with this like we wake up in the morning having a big breakfast of reminding ourselves what type of situation we end with this president we read in his tweets. We waking up reading his tweets. We might be laughing about it that follow Oh. I don't follow him. I don't vote for him. I don't click on him. I don't click on anything that has his energy on it. It's not for my household. It's not for remind chess game. I don't have enough spirit capacity to do him an me so I can only focus on what I got going on and because I do that when I get any scenarios where something is triggering for me or when the pressure is apply apply I feel like because I feed my spirit with what I want to come up out of me. In those moments I am better prepared for that. That's why a lot of focus for me are about nutrition and things like that and understanding our redlining lining issues and things like that when it comes to our nutrition and all of that because we have to start with what we do on the everyday so that we're ready for these type of battles <hes> that has to do with not being emotional what you do on your everyday has to do with not being emotional so making sure that it takes so much to knock you off your square making sure you have some self awareness making sure that you now worried about you'll hyper masculinity or Yo- whatever it has to the superficial should have been black when we focus on that shit more focus on the spirit and what's going on inside this is when we have these reactions that are checkers. That's when we have checkers reactions if we would play chess on a daily with our bodies what our minds we play chess on the daily with the people around us that look like they don't look like us. Is that talk like us. They don't talk like us that fuck with us. They hate US chess what everybody these type of situations will be stealthier smarter slicker. They'll be unified with an what we try to do. It will be much harder harder to divide us if we was together in the first place a little bit of spirit counseling a little bit of sticking toes in a Mo told you maybe I should care about this artists that I'm booking. Maybe I see what she about. Maybe I should give a fuck. Have I been done. We wouldn't be here there would have been no division. They would run out of that. We care about black people. We Care About Equity Book. The black artists care about her right. That's that's really give a fuck before today. Give a fuck before it hit van. Give a fuck before it hit C._N._N.. Didn't give a fuck messy. May maybe perhaps it didn't know but they didn't assume because I'M NOT GONNA lie. I was surprised that when I saw the article and I was surprised that you were black because it's not not that I was offended or anything like that. Think look at them go. That's that's a it's a stance. I wouldn't have taken but when I read more about it. I understood why you took the stance. This is this is this is my retort to what you just said and I think that one reason why meeting ideas like this is important is because of the Gumbel of thought. That's going to have to exist for any type of community building to actually it's not going to happen the way that I would look at what you're saying pain the way I would look at everything that you said is this so they're apparatus that exist in some that have to be built right so one apparatus to getting our community together is is to have them understand what it is. They're up against so in order to understand that that that comes with the spelling some lies that comes with a little bit of a shedding light on the truth of the systems that are working perfectly to keep that's where we are and a little self accountability and understanding about what we're going to need to do so part of that is going to be okay. This is how you got here and the reason why this this is how you got here is important but now I don't believe is that we need to flip social media and seeing a brother or sister get his head blown off by police officer every five minutes. I think that that is actually killing our spirits but you know some people believe that it's important to keep people aware and vigilant and I can agree with that too but I would say is that what I have to do is I have to in my brain know two things one that the best society to build in America or anywhere is one that values freedom justice inequality right for everyone re- regardless of race freedom justice inequality however that they are specific communities that are being denied that on purpose so because they're being denied that on purpose and because there's not going to be a massive change of heart and the ruling class that'll never happen the way that those communities can combat that is one way solidarity one way and it and solidarity and a bunch of different factions right you have to care about so many different other people's experiences you have to care about the experiences of the old lady that lives across the street from you. That's struggling <hes> to be because our Medicaid. You have to care about her. You have to care about your <hes> your l._G._B._T.. homey across across across town that's going through. They can't live their life. You have to care about a lot of different who you exhausted of carrying about right. You have a lot of people but what you really have to care about if you WANNA see them. Change are the people that are in your community. I'm from South Baton Rouge Louisiana. I'll say it again to on this podcast. I have to care that I've been able to been semi successful. I have to care about those people. I have to care about them and cared about them. Often Times means prioritising them means that they're justice means a little bit more to me than maybe the People's justice and Shannon dougher or show of force their their economic viability only because they have their own community to to rally for them as you're saying only because straight is not is because they're straight and another reason is Jillian is I can't depend on the people from that community to care about the people from my community because had we been able to depend on that the situation wouldn't be the way that it is right now so I can't I can't if I could say if I could go and take leaflets right and go to Beverly Hills right now go yo. She has fucked up in Watts. Here's the information and if I believe that they will go. Oh my God look at this. Let's go do something about it then. That's what I would do right but the only way to to really improve the conditions of the people that live there is to make them care about each other more than they care about some other things more. I mean when I say more I mean I love everyone. I love you a little bit more. I love I care about everybody. I don't WANNA be unfair to anyone anyone but the unfairness of another segment of the of the population is actually less important to me than whether or not you're being treated fairly like you choose your family so I think that if anyone had a problem and by the way your specific upbringing is antithetical to that I had no why people in my house and know why people have a Homey the I'm saying like you know what I don't know what the fuck does like. I I have a lot of Ypres yeah well. I I moved out to L._A.. Guy Who I live without here it was my boy. Tommy shot at the time you tally time he's mad at me because I talked about the state that his house was in now about the whole judo when I when I when I came here but Tommy we got that Tommy I'm Barbara Love You <hes> but so I don't have that experience but I think that I think that for a lot of black people I won't speak for them. All we're starting to feel like ownership group. Operation is the way to get there and it seemed as if what what you did was at cross purposes to that right for some of them right was the reason why I followed you right. I followed you and then someone hit me up in My D._M.'s young on follow tiny j what say that again so one hit me up in my lie I followed you know I'm I'm. I listen listen. I knew this conversation. I'm getting on this podcast. Somebody's follow tiny Jack and then now that brings me to the to the to the to the to the point to ask you about when I went into your comments. Yeah I saw a lot of trump supporters in your comment plenty plenty. Does it bother you yeah being a symbol to him. Him Yes it bothers me. Yes it bothers me. Yes it bothers me absolutely. Is that ever make you feel like because so many trump supporters are like yeah go but you maybe we're on the wrong side of this. I know it bothers me for sure but it was a predictable outcome is predictable the outcome if I wasn't doing my chest game on the daily to myself I will be the type of person that modifies everybody's stories to say my agendas will so I get it. <hes> you know hate them my heart about it because it makes it's it's. It's the shit that don't make accents that I worry about I don't worry about it makes sense. I don't worry about it that I could see coming on to worry about that. I can make sense of I saw that coming that was going to happen is is good and bad with everything. This happens to be. The bad of this happens to be so sensationalized because look where we are so yeah yeah that that is that's that's crazy. That's crazy shit right now. <hes> and I don't even mean to make it seem so not a big deal but for one is reality that I refuse to subscribes who because I can't be my spirit with Shit for one for two if you give a fuck about you already super month you listen to the music already know what Tim O.. So I'm not that worried about it and I saw any no love like you know what I'm saying and they're not staying as soon as I dropped my next check. Oh my God she's not for like it's not that I'm not worried they not stand. They ain't not laying around <hes>. If I do worry about it I probably would have made it up here today. You know what I'm saying. It'd be an corner somewhere rocking back and forth like I'm not worried about that. There's going to be bad that come with everything minds. Cessation allies right now because at timing ization nationalizing a good way to because the timing is station lies for me right now because the timing I'm understanding my people better than I ever have because the timing you come to understand better about them a lot of them playing checkers and I was about to get to play chess on the S. and I was GONNA lose a lot of them and I care about them so now about to go to the checkers game rallied them over to the chess game. I didn't know I had to do that though I was about to start playing chess and I didn't. I didn't realize that I care I care a lot about <hes> not just me and everybody that subscribes to my school but people everybody are listless president bills right now. <hes> excuse my voice a little under the weather but it's not gonNA stop you from getting this great information Russian from audio Mac if you're listening to this right now and that means this podcast is now available on audio Mac Audio Mac is the free music and podcasts streaming APP. Let you stream and download the hottest albums mix tapes songs playlists and podcast along with audio Mac exclusive discover the best new songs by browsing the trending page check out the library of carefully curated playlists is what forever mood take take your favorite songs and podcasts off line to save your data and listen wherever you are all your MAC is here to move music forward available now on the APP store and Google play. Let's get back to more it. Is this conversation with tiny Jag and you know maybe I'll put out a trap album or something like that. I'm Kinda sounded I G right now with whatever's going on my throat. What what would you say the chess game you say checkers? A lot of them are playing checkers. Some people are you're talking about the chess game. Just I feel like we've touched on but crystallized. What playing chess to you so equity is about an again the big difference the difference was we equity and charity and I have to I have to plug another artist? Name is fuzz fuzzy slippers he he was able to put this into words that delivers l. k. and and let's talk about his name's buddy sleeper because he's so comfortable being who he is and whatever setting that he always and some slippers that's fuzzy faulk with them okay so <hes> Ma'am so he he put it into some really good words for me though because he studied political science and and he he was able to put it in better words there my spirit was able to bring for me but you can't do charity charity equity at the same time so is is more about plant chess equities about being impartial. If we want equity we gotta be impartial. They people we have to be impartial period. You can't be lean doing all this Lena. You have to be impartial we need everybody sees in equity for blacks. We don't need just black money in the black community because if we did we will be straight. That's not true. You're reality is that the problem is that we take our the. I just put a post up today. Benard are now is the CEO of <hes> of Louis Vuitton more at Hennessy. Okay think about that Louis Vuitton Moet Hennessy my mother used to my grandmother used to put my grandmother Hennessy Hennessy my baby tomato today so I've been drinking hennessy longer than I've been talking to. You knew right so those brands like you know what I'm saying. I'm drinking Hennessy Lana. y'All laugh. You know my grandmother Lila. My grandmother used to break shit. We had to them. Hey you write down right. Yeah can put them in your you. Go Sleep but what I'm saying. Is that the reason why I'm disagreeing with you right now. Sister is I'm saying that if we actually support it the businesses that we own as much as we we actually don't need any the the black American economy. If you just took the economy of black Americans here I think it would be like the Fifteenth Sixteenth Biggest Academy in the world right so really. We don't need any dollars outside. We don't need anything so that's teaching that right. Let's chat before we teach them. Get an extra ten dollars on the Whitehead. Let's teach them spent here not not it. We can do that without a discount because my thing is even with the discount. If I cannot afford a twenty dollar festival I cannot afford a ten dollar festival the where that's the difference. Are we talking about. Really you feel it that <hes> Yeah I've been. I've been in places where that ten dollars was a mother fuck. It shouldn't have been for you and that's the problem. You need to know better than that. You need to know that if you couldn't afford twenty dollars then you do need to stay home and you need to put your head in a book or you need to put your head and stuff and let's go and get the long jetty going some. That's GONNA get us learning how to fish eating fish. What about this is about this? This festival was about to give a lot of kids some fish to eat tonight. What am I wasn't gonNA teach them how to fish? What about the idea that every little dollar helps so even if it's forget about what the binary of what you can afford and what you can't afford what about the fact that maybe making it easier for you to go how how about this turning something that would be a luxury into something? That's a convenience. Let's focus then. Are we trying to give black people a luxurious experience or are we trying to put money in the black community. We not going do both right now. We not their pick of struggle like you can't do both right now. If we want to give them a crazy experience that's just for blacks and all of this and that and that we can do that but it's not going to be like that. That's not you cannot do. Both you can't then say oh well. We can take this stance because it's put a kid. This is the last place we should be trying to fuck around with. Race is for an event for some children because now they use in my face as the reason that white supremacist is is threatening the black families not the fucked up. Ask ticket structure the fact that I pulled out mind you if I put out because I had a volleyball game with my niggers nobody would have gave them in volleyball. I WANNA see the game nobody would. They seem to hear what you they could play volleyball. You shut up to my groceries. <hes> she's a U._S._A.. Volleyball Yeah okay well. I'm just not sure yeah so if I put out for that nobody would ever gave a fuck so I wish it would be because I put them a Sheridan on awhile. Call this shave my bad Sheridan Sheridan as just a friend on my share this just come on Jimmy trailing. She's a new friend a friend but <hes> but yes. That's that's not it's. It's not gonNA work that way like we can do we can do my point is we can do one or the other nobody would have cared had are backed out because I was busy or backed out because I- bigger bad come or whatever the case may be nobody buddy would've cared the issue came from the structure of the ticketing and if we was GONNA be up in arms about some backlash it we need to focus on where the backlash came from and <hes> and and how we can keep that from being thing next time if that's not what we want. I'm not that close. I'm I felt like I kind of knew. The curator's definitely don't feel that way anymore but at least personally enough to know that I know that their their goals I can respect the goals period that was never. I've done Afro Future before I've done. I've done a chauffeur them before <hes> at the same exact location same exact people everything <hes> footage is still on Youtube. I'm not a hater is just you know communicate less be. Let's actually move like we have a goal. We not going to be sloppy. We not going to be we're not gonNA have all these holes in the blueprint. We now have these holes in in the in the equation. Let's let's get there. Let's let's make it there. <hes> how would you like to see black people and white people in America. How would you like to see because you talk a lot about some of the things that you say pause? Let me get. This thought one thing. What I'm hearing is that do you feel like black? People cannot fix their situation in America and that's why people are somehow involved. No you don't feel like no <hes> so we don't need white people that <hes> the the black community immunity. I think he's organically. That's my part. The blueprint or the way that I feel does not have them has any other community not just them have any community built into it. It has a it has its own flourish to it that is going to naturally make others gravitate towards it. Everybody wants to be a Nigga anyway until it's time you know until our backs up against some shit but before that we the coolest thing on the planet and that's just fact so we're we're one one reason why we're. We're so cool to them is because they own are cool. One part of that's not that's like we we there. The one thing that's really cool about black people is that we're cool for price and they set the price. I think the coolest thing about like people that they have rhythm the cool thing about black. People is everything that we are we are this is us everything and we all the rhythm is how much innate how many things are nate for us. How many things are nate for us that you just can't make that? You just can't teach that you just can't these things. It's nothing matters about that unless you own it period we own cultural but they're buying and selling and there's nothing there's nothing about ten dollars on the whitehead. That's going to make us own. Anything is going to start these conversations. Go to show them to me. The point of that is by the way if I ran that festival I wouldn't have done that. I I'm not I'm not saying that that was the right thing to do my biggest problem with by the way and I don't have a problem <hes> because I do believe that in in this entire deal you're going to have to have <hes> engages in resistance. I'm Mashallah messes engages in resistors right. Some people are going to engage. Some people are going to resist. I'm actually in the middle. I'M A in wrister. I engage where I can and I resist but what I what what I'm saying is if I if I had an issue with what it is that what you did was that the one thing that I have a problem with this is the problem grown up in the south. Is I have a problem with black people not wanting to hurt people's feelings. Oh and that was just never part of the narrative. It was just that simple. I think that sometimes you gotta hurt somebody's feelings. If you WANNA get ahead. If you really WanNa start something else and change the dynamic is not going to happen without hurting people's feelings. I have a bunch of white people in my life that are very important into me incredibly important to the nicest people that I know some of the great and and I wouldn't want to hurt their feelings at all but the reality is those people are so close to me because they understand their privilege and their place in this country and they get that in order for inroads to be made. They're going to have to sacrifice a little bit of that. I don't know if they're going to be so willing when it comes time but they get that it can't continue to go the way that he's GonNa go right and sometimes I think the one thing that black people don't want to do and his Co.. It comes from a metric that I've seen from my community. Is that like yeah if you're on a basketball court right and we're all playing and I love the Baltimore Boy Ryan and and he takes the ball reverse whatever he does right everybody. Oh Shit that was crazy. Let a white boy do it watch how the gym goes fucking nuts right like if everybody's dancing and somebody does the amazing little white boy walking there Justin timberlake corals and his head start fucking it up watch everybody goes crazy part of that is just because we don't think why people can do those things but another part of it is is that some reason we like being seen by them. We like it well. Why people think that it's cool like like I know people that are fixtures on Shade Room B._T.? Baller and all those places you should see how they act when they come in here because some I'm kind of weighed the validation of this place well the validation of Oh. I won an academy award all I want all it is that means something the love means more when it's from white people sometimes the feeling cool feeling a part of something means more when when it comes from people sometimes and I think that sometimes if they little pressed about something we gotta be like whatever our goals and what we want and what we're doing is a little bit more impertinent important than how you you feel right now and and that that to me demonstrates love for each other the only problem I have with what you did was that you broke with black people because of why people feel it and I and right and that's the take that you had from it and I completely understand that and oh you did it though and I'm not too dense to understand that you are not alone in that exact thought process it was more of a six okay even if they was wrong is US bringing in we talk about it and I got that I just wasn't part of the family when we was making and these decisions in the first place I wasn't even cared about as artists so we gotta take you got you have too many just on some as artists in the situation. Take all of that shit up off of it for a second on some these people and give a fuck about show romance two seconds ago when it was booking me not telling me what was the when they was okay with me taking this shit that I don't even know what I'm taking free of cost to them. I was not being cared about you. Know what I'm saying so it's not about we not then when I'm being wrong. GonNa decide that we all should have done this on the hush hush. Well what we should've done on the hush hush was talk to one another so that we can actually make these strikes at y'all Wanna WanNa make this was more of a harsh learning curve for us all <hes> <hes> and it wasn't on anything but this could have absolutely been done a better way. We're not just because on my mother fucking accord. It could have been done a better way so that we could get where we're trying to go and it's not only sensationalize when a white person doesn't black actually a little nicer than when it's a fucking country and that's the the Swedish should ever if a white boy would have done the same thing and we're not doing this fam- wouldn't have jumped on it if another little white boy was doing it is because we when we crossed those boundaries is sensational because everything is focused on as being different separate stand in them lanes. We start crossing lines up yeah. That's just relational air buddy in this motherfucker we L._A.. Right now nick is a singer Repin A._S._e._A._N.. Narin autism on the fucking Shit. Everything's things being crossed switched up flipped up and that should sensational this is about. I'm cool with that. I'm good with that. I'm part. I am a product of this society. I'm part of generation. There's a lot of sensationalized shit in and doing that type of thing. I'm what audits that was not this. This was not thought through and it just happened to hit these headlines that made it seem like it was this great thing that was well thought out. It's how you Jag just could not hurt the white people's fillings and that's just not what it was. It was never what the fuck it was supposed to be from jump. I couldn't fuck with the Shit and they hated me for it and now I'm sitting here talking to you the mother fucking end that's all it is tiny Jack always been for me myth for you for the blacks for the Whitesman for whatever the fuck else's up in me. I don't know I did no answer dot com about to let no white people in a laboratory time. What the fuck I am? We know about to do none of that but I know when I stick these ugly little toes and the motherfucking mud somebody talks to me we're and they do not say we need extra dollars on the white hair and that's really where I'm at right. I get that like there's there's no way to hate on. This is what I like. I'd ask you this so you. That is your vibrated high frequency to me. Be Honest with you. You're you're vibrating at a high frequency to me. <hes> I'm at a point to where there's a lot of things that are going on one thing that I've been here at Tennessee for a while <hes> and having been <hes> everything inside of me has already been in there but it's been it's it's been <hes> a sort of exacerbated or multiplied multiplied or whatever in the last seven or eight years that I've been here and the reason why it's been is because I see how fundamentally <hes> America misunderstands why people not in a not in <hes>. There's nothing thing artistic or abstract about it. You have a front row like they don't get you have a front row like daylight and is not even it's not even that is not even that <hes> is not it doesn't always come from a center so place and that is the most frustrating thing about. That's the most difficult piece if I if I look at someone and go like that like is like your fucking racist that will be easy the microaggressions just having someone I remember having a conversation in the newsroom one day and they go yo seems like that person's acting a little bit more like Malcolm X.. You don't WanNa be like that guy and I was. I was wrong Malcolm X.. Malcolm X. was violent so violent guy take the reality is this person is one of the smartest people I know. They just don't know shit about Malcolm. Was this person being violent no they but but what I'm saying is that they because of that. I feel like I'm not even capable. I'm capable of loving and being fair to everyone and I am <hes> but I'm not capable of not prioritizing black the people in almost every situation now I it it. It's I'M NOT I. I'm not capable of it capable of now. I want you to finish. I'm no so what what I the only thing I'm capable of doing is saying look here. In America things have been unfair for us for a long long time. I'm not about crying about that anymore. I'm not about acting like <hes> anybody in this room that might happen. That's why is responsible for that unfairness. They're not they were born into it. They didn't have a choice right but I'm also not about pretending that that doesn't exist and pretending that it's not gonna be us up to us to do more for ourselves in order to offset it right so if you like the burden is that we have to do more for ourselves. Absolutely we have to do more for us <hes> sometimes. Piece of why people off Van I want you to know that is us. Doing more for ourselves is a theory is going to have to be more expensive for them. Sometimes there's going to have to be a cultural cost and sometimes that's going to have to be because think about this. You're a musician not even sometimes for this to work. It's going to be so like for example. There was a time where you could still black people's music and call it something else and then make a make over a trillion dollars off of it and why is a bunch of black people who des Rock and Roll Music that died in obscurity everywhere and the Beatles and the rolling stones and led Zeppelin if you ask them who fucking they're like Oh shit muddy waters little walter all of these guys these people they kid America they go straight to Tennessee right they they go straights muscle shoals they go all of those places right but they end up being seventy five seventy six seventy seven still torn fucking twenty one year old ladies making making a billion dollars and the man who invented the sound they don't get Shit Shit at all right they can't even get in the rock and Roll Hall of fame half the time so they they will rock and roll us in every aspect of who we are if we don't make it a little bit easier for each other to succeed so that's that's the only difference that we're having these not. It's not a difference. That's that's my whole thing. It's not a difference. Listen to how how much depth there is. What you're talking about right now is not gonna be as simple as doing what you just heard? From this festival it is way deeper than that. That is a bunch of chest that you talking about. That's a bunch of fucking chess. It really truly is which is why I was out here first thing. My mom asked me when I told her I'm about to take music series. I'm dropping out of my master's program because I'm in my in my class make a video treatments and she doesn't see what is your message. What's the message and my initial reaction to a her which still relatively stick to but my initial reaction to react to her was the message is coming? It's best period you mama. You know my messages or you know what I'm about. You know what time it is. I don't put you awesome system stuff. You know we work together here. You know with them but <hes> I can't stay away from the blue print. The blueprint is built to be attacked the BOOP. That's why it's there if everything we're just GonNa go the way you feel it was going to go. You don't need anything to stick to you. Don't need a blueprint. You don't need no guns to hold onto. It's not gonNA go like that. The blueprint going get attacked. I didn't know it was going to get attacked like this but it's GonNa get attacked but if I start veering from it is no longer the blueprint. I'm out here Willy Nilly. I'm out here pissing. I'm in the context of pissing. We've been pissing for a long time. We've been making these knee-jerk reactions to be an exhausted Austin from watching these videos exhausted from being our corporate positions where we see as misunderstood every day we exhausted we tire we are tired but the blueprint is still in effect. The blueprint is still in effect over here so the message is important for me but it's got to be laid out in a way that I think as a communicator is not just about getting out of my mouth is not just about me making a stance. It's not just about me making a a point with my decisions as far as this. Here's a ticket structure. That's going to send a message. That's not the message I my message to land and to into stick and to start to induce change to move a needle and I think that it's important important that we do it that way in order to do that like I said this puts little this. This starts conversations this. This does things that because of how it went it does start conversations because it did hit headlines. It has started conversations that I think are necessary so I don't take this l. for anyone across the board everybody one period and that's why I can sleep at one. They won everybody. Actually I might go to their festival and like what a win on my Go-to the festival yeah it's just it's such a win and that is I don't have the vocab for whatever it that feeling in my chest about that but like that is big that is a big dub like that's huge and nobody saw it coming which makes it so organic would makes the actually probably have some longevity to it but I don't think it would have been that the way that it was going. <hes> and I also don't think that without these types of conversations stations the needle wouldn't have even been starting to do anything off of that and I also think that idea may have put some ideas in the children that do follow that school of thought without objection objection without hearing another side without maybe <hes> consulting someone that has had a white this or a Asian this or a Hispanic this or whatever had lacking that tolerance making them feel like they have to that'd be within these safe black spaces it lacks a tolerance to move and I feel like at the end of the day this ended up being a win because it put a sensationalized significance on a lot of different avenues that are within this same idea at once once was just very narrow and kind of had some blinders on it was next for you shit well <hes> The music for sure but <hes> one thing that that I will say oh I was just sitting here is fucked up. There's going to be like that much of a contrast but I say here instead about the blueprint but the blueprint I do feel like a little. It needs a little modification just because I didn't know where we were so I feel as if my message does need to be in the music a little bit sooner her then I had maybe <hes> planned but it was there anyway it was there anyway regardless the principles now. Oh for sure I mean look at you. You look at me and my eyeballs my pupils are you in this moment home. I'm in this. I leave here tonight. I'm here what you right now. This is big. She not just on no tiny Jag Shit not just on no van Shit. You know what I'm saying. I never had no conversations like this and felt comfortable to talk about where I'm coming from with no lights on me microphone in my face. Were you know what I'm saying. This is huge ship. This is big shit right now. So it was necessary. It was necessary and it's more to come. That's going to be necessary and I'm GonNa be honest with you now that I realize all I gotta do is necessarily issue an apology to my own. Oh fans and shit like this could come about. I don't know if this the last time shit like this to be honest with you. I don't know that but <hes> because I feel really deeply about a lot of shit so I don't know he was holding it in. Whatever you nine then we'll do believe now got off these motherfucking Media Cherries pop so not now definitely but <hes> but no it's my focus is definitely to make sure that <hes> the craft is aligned with the message more than ever <hes> but still does not veer away from the reason that I'm here in the first place which is that that inclusivity that that freedom to do this right here to to come up here and express just exactly so a pinpoint hartfield about whatever's asked of me is is is huge for me and I think that that is a very large drop but still a drop in a very big pool but that's my drop my drop in that pool is inclusivity tolerance rights and being true to you because as soon as we do that a lot of this other stuff doesn't have room for conversation because it's a second nature for us? Let me tell you something. I knew that this conversation would be good when I I'll tell okay why I knew it would be good bye on everybody was like getting at you and then you put a picture up. Fuck you ally she like that. I like the fuck you people I do the apology people aren't that I don't mind the apology people. They're fun to hang around with but I like the fuck you people. I like to fuck you people because the fuck you people in this day and age have the wherewithal to stay on their lane and stay on their wrote. The only hope is that you're willing to add lanes. Oh and that's for sure I'm a Sagittarius even the most adaptable that you'll ever meet in your life and for me almost sisters militant I'm part time militant all-time black but I do respect the point of view that there is a general sense of basic fairness and awareness <hes> and I like the fact that you had the courage to <hes> to to move all within your spirit and how on how you see the world thank you so much and that is an uncommon trait. Now people lar- normally planted a crowd. We all fuck who you are. Some of my home is listening to you all do it. You all go. Oh yeah that'll be fired or put on the ground up and Blah Blah Blah like everybody does it. Everybody goes how out rages <hes> but you know it was going to happen. You did it for that until an auto white people in the room. Just the white people now clap ten times harder aw no that's. That's a ten dollar clap. I need a forty dollar class right forty forty dollars worth all all right. We're so where else y'all doing here. WE'RE GONNA CHICAGO <hes> complex going on in Chicago so that's Lee but definitely I mean. I'm tiny fucking jags so that's that's my big thing I wanna be. I WanNa make sure that I can connect.

America Detroit chess US Jillian Whitehead president Jack volleyball Western Michigan University Malcolm X Jet Mike hamtramck payless Kentucky Michelin Rue Yanni
Page Kennedy

Sci-Fi Talk: The First Season

23:00 min | 7 months ago

Page Kennedy

"Yeah bad man. I am c. three. Po human sidewalk relations high. Amanda tapping from you one at atlantic and sanctuary. You're listening to sifi talk with tony. Collado enjoy page. Kennedy is a man of many talents actor. Rapper and he starts a new movie with jason. Statham rainn wilson ruby. Rose and cliff. Curtis in the meg mega short for prehistoric shark which is very much alive. Here's our complete conversation. I gotta tell you right off the bat when you get the good line in new trailer people are gonna notice so Who got those lines rain. No way no way like how big thing and then wrong. There was like perfect perfect. That's so funny because Some of our friends like when they see media. I'll say wrong and i'm the i'll get it as one word so i don't get why i'm so many because it's me and so any day i'd say like whatever but i really don't get why that line is so funny though. Yeah no totally it it. It's like when you're in. The trailer remain urine. That's definitely cool. Tell me about your character. Dj so dj is drone pilot. He's a row controls. All of the rovers that they use underwater to observe new and unique aquatic life And facility that they all work in comment oh one yeah And my character is the person who you know. It's all of the visuals. Yod he'll of our is new and amazing creatures. The set for man one look pretty impressive. I mean there's clash and stuff like that. I'm sure this green screen may be but What's that like to work there. I guess when you're you're basically inside a lot wells awesome. I mean especially like i out there. We first saw it just the just the. It's just awesome. You know you walk in there and you see it just feel like you're really in this space. You have your wardrobe sitting there. Like i. You know i felt like so else. I really felt like character. Not so like being out of the country in zeeland in wonderful amazing set And with these interesting close on that. I would typically wear. But i like i just. I just felt like i was really this characters. It was great and the glasses. That's a good look for you. Yeah i like. I actually tried to take those classes with but it didn't happen. Yeah but i forgot the with this kind of cash. I mean you know. There's jason cliff curtis Rainn wilson ruby rose. I mean it's a great cash very diverse too which i totally love and It's I got the feeling. Though that the set there was a lot of fun going on. Maybe because our director john yeah. That's such a huge jokes. They're like he's so funny where he and then you put him with. Rain at rain is the exact same way. you did. Have both of those guys and this is this it just says and then everyone kind of gives everybody you know a hard time in a fun way So it's an enjoyable set. So what's it like dealing with essentially something that's not really there. I guess you have to turn on the imagination definitely because We didn't even get tennis ball. Nothing there and that we were looking at. We're just looking at the area and you can our imagination or what we think this thing looks like you know 'cause no one really knew until later. Yeah so what. Was it like when you finally saw the mac. Well when i when. I finally saw awesome. Because we we we saw are the mockup. Because there's a there's a picture of a model of it and The pitcher on the motto of it is so you that you know you just gotta run and go try to put your face in it and take a picture. I mean it's kinda kinda scared even do that. Just 'cause like even those clearly not real is a scary thing to do Because you just don't want to. You don't wanna clue and kill you. Even though as a star. Yeah yeah exactly exactly. No i mean it it. It does look awesome. I mean i travel i. I appreciated the use of bobby darren's beyond the sea. To kind of fit really did The tone of the movie. I mean i will say this that. When i was growing up i loved the monster movie or the shark movie. I went to see jaws obviously in enjoyed that This is much bigger shark as its prehistoric but And i've actually seen skeletons of these. Things are fossils of these things and they are huge. Which town for this movie is a it seems like yet a threat but you guys maybe having a little fun with it bit. You know i mean like like you mentioned beyond the scenes like that them even have in that song plane in. They're kind of that you know and it's just kind of like a fun not taking itself too serious popcorn type movie. There are some some some real Suspenseful moments and and as some really good action. This movie has fun and rainn. Wilson's character very sarcastic and funny so i think i think this is just like a fun movie that you go to your family and and we don't take ourselves too serious or no. I don't think the audience either. Nothing probably usage of that song. Kinda opens you up to say. Oh yeah man. That's charles exactly exactly but from your character. I kind of get the sense of that. He has like a really dry sense of humor. Yeah you know he just. He'll come out with one word. That will kinda summit all up and and you'll go. Yeah he's right. You know that kind of right right. He does have a dry humor. And he's kind of you know kinda like the straight guy until until later until when Or and they really get and it and then stuff is really going down and then you see how would that hilarious now. Physical role for you. somewhat yeah i had to train. We trained really hard for Like a month before. Strength and conditioning training as well as Yes when train two times a week which is very packing difficult. Yeah off but but awesome. And i start putting like stuff from harnessing on my instagram twitter. Okay cool yeah. Yeah at as kennedy My you know in some of the stuff. I was doing a lot of dives 'cause i didn't know how to die. I got there. And i learnt while i was there till you had to guess which scuba gear and things like that. No no no no no no not not not not deep dive right on my normal normal jump into water. Okay okay yeah so i guess I guess they used were you out in the real ocean or day use tanks or maybe both wow. I hope but water was warmly sports. Yeah the water was warm in in The tank for thank god. I love the fact you know you know how much it probably cost a heat apple because this is like this is like the biggest that you've seen as gigantic. Obviously you know 'cause they have the and i hold my shit. Yeah yeah that's pretty. Yeah to that must have been something. That's cool Yeah any anything that happened during shooting stood out to you and thing happened this out. I noticed that but whoa cool moment happen this war. We were out on the ocean. The first day we went out there then entire day of filming we were Followed by a potett dolphin. Nice so that was cool because they just they're just kept following us the whole that watching them go up and under shipping going around playing our school. That is cool. There's more on the meg. And the bard with page candid billy boy. I have been in the rings and you're listening to science find talk. I know that You know you that one of the things you concentrated on your life is a playwright than i admire very much as well william shakespeare so i have to ask you. I always ask actors when we talk about shakespeare which which one of his is your favorite playing hard. Isn't it richard. That third really reaching the third. Wow i can't use the rea. The reason they are is because there's different genres right. There's comedy distracted tragedy. There's you know. And so you might have a favorite comedy and you might have a favorite trauma. Plays too hard to peak was favorite that but to me richard. the third. Because you know. I've always wanted to play that role. Lert arolla alert. The whole row of the play in college and i practice an entire year for the audition happened. The entire faculty knew how badly i wanted. All the students who are badly. I wanted it and all dishes. And i didn't get it. And they gave it to actually one or two comedic actors in our department at western michigan university. And that's absolutely chris chris me because at the time. I didn't think that the person got. It took it seriously if i did And and. And then i was offered to play richmond which you know that was very ironic from the to play the guy who kills richard love richard. So much you know. What one of the Reasoning is that. The director gave me was a one said well. If you're richardson who's armed. Be able to kill you. Because i'm pretty big. And then she charlton said at that time. She felt that. That actor had more colors to backed into me. And i think what she probably meant by that is. Maybe i was so fixated on his playing him. This one way And i think because that guy Specialized events specializing in comedy. He had more. There was more interesting right. 'cause he he thinks that i would probably take this ultra seriously. He might do sarcastically. Which made more interesting. So i get it. I get an understanding now. And i've added all those elements to myself and i feel desperately wanna play that role for somehow some way. I don't know how are it ever happened. But that is my during the play richard third. Yeah that's such a great part. My favorite play. I have actually. There's several it's hard to pick one. But lately i've been i few many years ago. I saw kenneth braun henry fifth. And i just totally i. I fell in love with that performance. And i actually went back. And i watched laurence olivier's henry the fifth and i'm watching it. I'm going He's not doing it for me. You know it's like i like brian. I think really kind of hit on something and brenna also is the e is my favorite shakespearean actor. Yeah these are perfect so so so perfect because he's so diverse is the best Yeah his hamlet is his film version of ham of is amazing to so and even he did. I think he did as you like it or did one of the comedies. As well so much to do much ado. that's right. that's right. So yeah he's just he's amazing but yeah that's the one that did it for me. Of course. I'm gonna like romeo and juliet. That's such a classic of you know forbidden love and and you know there's Some some really good lines in that to this day we still recite and You know that's the thing about shakespeare. He shows up snippets of lying shows up everywhere and even in popular culture. He's a such an influence. But that's cool and i know you've played. I know you played football to a little bit. yeah I played football in high school and then also played at western michigan university and Ended up getting hurt my ribs broken. Yeah i got my wrist. Broken plan football. I think i was I was in practice. And we're doing their drill. That was not even all contact. You know or just kinda it was kinda just engaged. And i think i was trying to spend away or something i was running back and wild. I was trying to spend Somebody came from the back me. broke my ribs. And at the time i was in the house of as clay called loves lightens light and the community theater in kalamazoo and is very physical Romantic comedy and i. You know. I couldn't rehearse the stuff at the end because they require. You know a lady on my bag physical comedy that i couldn't do until you know could we couldn't even rehearse it until right towards the right while we're gonna open so schools start at and one of my directors saying this place will brownish here. You can't consider usefully rose because you know what if you break your leg. What if you you know what i mean. Yeah and and look very difficult. Is i was at theater major and i play football and both of those are two demanding sports. I mean do demanding curriculums that you have and you in college you know. And i was trying to do both of them and saying that he trained who The doctor told me i don't know. How long are you play football. I know you can act forever. You might want to stick it. And that's what i did. I quit and there. You are in here you are. You know here i am. Here's a right here. I am getting up play. i. I've gotten to play football on screen. So there you go there you go. I talking to an actor years ago played football and he got hurt and he you know he just when attacking and i asked him. What's the difference between college in the nfl. Because he was with the cleveland browns for awhile and he goes you know in college maybe three or four guide. Maybe five six guys are really fast and the nfl. Even linemen are fast. It's like you just lose step in you're done. There's no way you can. You just can't run away from these guys so Yeah he knew when he got hurt he was finished because he was just. It's amazing so you did the right thing. You definitely did there aren't they. I'll i was. I wasn't making nfl. And even if i had you know that would have been well over now. Yeah yeah. I hear ya yeah. It's better to better to be able to do it on on on tv. And they last forever. That i of my major on my major roles. I play the quarterback on a show called blue mountain state. Token that is one of my most popular characters and rose to date and look at it for the rest of my life. You know people are gonna look at me as this amazing quarterback. I'd never played quarterback in real life. Like i would never you know. So when i grow. I had to learn how to play quarterback snaps before. I never had to learn a proper drop. I had the you know all i mean. The quarterback is the runner to captain. Yeah And and all i knew was getting a handed ball running on so forever. I will have that that football tie which is better than you claro anyway. Because they made me cool. Yeah yeah i mean you know on tv. You know what your character is gonna do in a real game. Who knows what's going to happen. So it's i wanna ask you about a project. Called same difference is that. I saw them on the great. Imdb is that something that's Is you're in the middle of or had done already. Yeah a little indie film. That i did and Starring essence aci-. Nice to meet your ship. There should be coming later this year or next year. I'm not sure But also have Same page different story. Oh cool that is coming in. That is my second out. Oh nice nice. Yeah and i'm very excited about it. As amazing features has big stories about my life from my childhood interesting. How i am the way i am. And most importantly it has the audition part to Make and an. I go through and i i explain all of the details though auditioning for the role of the person that i initially lost into about the you know the try like this stuff that you would never know that you would want to know. Yeah you know and so that that comes out. Monday's nobody here is probably out in available. The on same page there for story comes out the same day as the main august. Oh that's nice so how how do you. How do you kinda juggle both of those careers. How do you. How do you find time for the music part of it. When you're you know we need with your acting career well creative. Add so. I'm constantly trying to create. You know whether that the social media things like you know skit Whatnot are making music or acting. You know always time. You know. Even even while i was I i was putting the album out when i was filming. Make Muscle my first album out pages. That's available now streaming platforms. I was. I was putting this album out while i was in new zealand shooting his movie. Because a lotta times just wait. Yeah she you know. Connor do other stuff. If it's just great. Yeah that's true that's true. Yeah there's a yeah movies. I always call them. Hurry up and wait wait. Like how are you gonna do. The scene okay. Let's wait wait a minute. We gotta shut up here. Early is exactly what's great to talk to you man. I'm looking forward to seeing this. I love a good creature feature. And and i i love this. Cast it's It's it's a nice mix of people and You know it's there's there's a lot of things represented in which i really like and i. It's going be fun i think. Oh definitely gotta check this out right. Well it's a pleasure talking to you. Best of luck to you. Man your careers and look forward to seeing you again in something else. All right thank you very much. you take care. Page look for the megadeath theater near you this weekend. August tenth or on dvd depending on when you listen to this interview checkout page kennedy dot com and look for him in black mountain state not to mention check out his facebook page as well and his tune said he talked about her is to cd or album is same. Page different story available at night. And leave your comments or questions to speak pipe dot com forward slash sci-fi. Talk grant. this is tony tomato. Thanks for this hi. I'm george decay. And i listened to sifi talk.

Collado Statham rainn wilson ruby jason cliff curtis Rainn wilson ruby rose john yeah football bobby darren Lert arolla western michigan university zeeland chris chris richard richard love richard rainn kenneth braun henry fifth Curtis Amanda shakespeare Kennedy billy boy
Detroit Uncensored  Episode 5

PodcastDetroit.com

55:53 min | 11 months ago

Detroit Uncensored Episode 5

"You're listening to the PODCAST DETROIT. visit www dot pastor troy not. Before information. Detroit on censor all things Detroit real talk no holding back. No holds barred. Good Afternoon Happy Friday August Twenty Second Two thousand and twenty five Oh. Five PM WE'RE BACK IN DETROIT. Uncensored Studios I have a special guest with me. Herman Barbie. I happened to call him Herman Barbie quicken loans over and over again just to buses ball's a little bit but he's a great man We've had a lot of conversations and we're going to dive into some. I, would you say controversial stuff? To some people it can be and it should be yes. Good. Good. Good good because you know this is Detroit on centered and that's what that's but this is about. So before we begin I want to do is just You know I don't know much about where you from where you grew up. I assume that will probably be friends you know coming up in these campaigns we've known each other long time. Yup we saw each other at the America Sheriff. David Clarke together yes. Awesome beards. I see I posted the pictures I saw that it was good. It was it was really nice and trim it off a little bit. Yeah. So wh-, where did you grow up? So I'm born and raised in Grosse Pointe, Michigan. Boy grew up on the lake with silver spoon in my mouth we graduate Graduate High School Nineteen Ninety Nine Grosse Pointe South. So Dr over I know the name that's my wife really graduated ninety nine. Chris South. NO KIDDING BLONDE HAIR Russian I'll no kidding, yeah, she's my wife eight years. Eight years and three days. A my babies have Russian also. Yet I when you say ninety nine point south, I dated other women so. Goes. So. Cool. Cool. Cool She went to Grosse Pointe South. And then do you go to college went to Western Michigan University started in a business and music wanted to go into the music business but instruments play Guitar Player for twenty five years now probably and do some bass and drums and vocals, various bands, projects, and stuff over the last several years. Nothing, long-term serious but more. So as a hobby right now, and then after college I kind of treated in my guitar for mortgage calculator and. Quicken quicken was two, thousand, four. Okay. I'll be sixteen years. Next month. Congratulations man you know that that's that's like century. Let's say because I started two, thousand ten and I made it to two, thousand, thirteen, I quit. And I was doing well, I just I wanted to spend more time with my wife and I went to a place with more basis points. Know Grass is always green on their side. There's pros and cons of each but. It was nice driving fifty minutes to work then versus going downtown but I can tell you I learned more about. In empathy and and listening to other people's point of views quicken absolutely and I really enjoyed the coaching the younger banker. So absolutely. Yeah. So. Are you planning on standing? wholly-owned Queens let's nobody. Is this going to be a retirement for you know? No. So you're not going to be like, Joe Lawns Berry and live there forever or forever. I. Love. Awesome. I worked with him in solution solving still. So I'm solution consultant here in the process of buying a house and might be a challenge or a concern. I am there to address that and fix it kind of like a mortgage mechanic base. You made me a lot of money. So Hey, you're welcome congratulations. When I was new in wasn't sure about a lot of things you help you fix a lot of me when you're a funny story by Joe Yeah I when I was in high school I used to pick up a little bit because I was big. Okay and I liked play sports and one day I. Mess with Joe and Joe threw me down in through a desk destiny through a desk on yeah yeah. Because you didn't seem like is that you know docile. He's he's calm and collected. He won't. He's pilot's license care for your plane. I would love to go up to mackinac with them one day I. Enjoyed like to jump out of a plane but I, I gotta I gotTa be honest with you I was impressed that Joseph up for himself and I come from. Professional boxing family I probably would have wiped them if my parents let me. But I was so impressed to find. That's good. Just like when you call you repeatedly made me call you her mind her mind messing with you stand up for who you are what you believe in Yeah I mean people call me. Bernard Humphry or Barnyard Yard. Or blowjob Humphry for bj. So Yeah. So I'm glad you're here man you know you know I I remember leaving the Sheriff David. Clarke event. We had an awesome conversation I. Think we agree on a lot of things. The things that we disagree on again, our semantics just like just very, very small things that. Aren't going to change. My opinion would vote for us. So. Let's dive in I'm going to pull up. Some some things did you want to pay the clippers for for the for the first one or did you want to go over? I forgot. So we'll play that one a little while later but what we wanted to about here is take the chart. Your is more so. You know we're less than ninety days or so away from the election. And it's just been coming to ahead. I. Mean. It's obviously twenty twenty left versus right the polarization of everything embarrassing it is. Frustrating the word I would use perhaps, and at the same time I feel very necessary. In this country, the way that it's been structured and with founding fathers establish our country we more or less and especially more now, it feels like more sober going to battle with each other every four years granted cable news channels they sway you one way or the other. Oh, they don't know how it doesn't help it polarize it. But through all of this, there's been this left versus right thing we're obviously. Constantly against each other in the middle, there has been this this fermenting of these, these the grass roots, the people that had been left out, and that is why in two thousand sixteen, we saw Donald Trump get elected I feel and this whole American Patriotic Movement coming in America I make America great again in what that's truly dot worrying about Europe because we we we we had such a long time Oh Europe is Context screw them. We need to fix our US first and then we can help other people and it's and it's not necessarily right versus left, but it's more so like what's right versus wrong and there's people who are wrong on both the right and the frankly yeah. But it's more so up and down as opposed to left and right. So we're either going in the right direction we're going up or we're going down I think, Ronald, Reagan, said alyx sixty some years ago but it's so true and. An. Obvious. Right now. There you go. So with regards to the political climate right now, there's the the grassroots and you have it rising on both sides on the left and the right what I'm seeing right now is more of a patriotic establishment. Coming up, it's the party of the people and that's the thing. It's the people the grass roots that got left out that are now in charge or and starting to take down able in the wicked. when we lost the detmer campaign you know I said this before I would love that my daughter was older I could give her teachable moment. Hey, we lost campaign it should sting to really stay. But look at all the great things. We got a chance to meet Badger Caldbeck we got a chance to get in touch us. We did a lot of good work. We feel proud about that. Absolutely we lost it should staying we don't get a trophy right but you know when you lose a sales contest and you can place you still get paid it up. But we learned from it and move on and we get stronger because of it, and that's one thing that I feel. Everyone's learning daily now and through this whole thing. It's almost as if the hand of God is he's putting his people together. Two, thousand twenty, two Mike Demer has is he's usually going to take a in my opinion he's easy to take the district. I will do everything in my power to make sure that happens unless if he does if he doesn't run our, I will probably stay with Detroit Center and do the State Rep because. I mean I I. Charles. Clarke wants me to run for president. Wow. Okay, I can ever do that, but I could do a state Rep. Rep wouldn't WanNa do Congress because I just don't like the idea of Hugo following around my family and just ridicule him. I don't think that happens as bad a state REP YEP. But right now, just you know I'm not trying to be a jerk. I'm trying to share this on Detroit's entered page and now my other page. Okay. So that way everybody can see it as many as possible. There you go. All right. So through this whole thing so keep going because I know you have a gender Yup through this whole thing we've seen social media take off. It can be used for good or for evil for for truth or for lies in unfortunately the people that are in control of a lot of it. Are Out for themselves in a certain specific agenda. and. We can go down that rabbit hole for not to but throughout all of this, we've started to see this this army, this army of righteous. Righteous anger are we talking about the the leftist regs army? They think they that other they can say whatever they want because they're right or are we talking about like right wing armies that are going to retaliate eventually it's Interesting part is growing on both sides. Yeah it's scary. It is. It's not it's interesting. It doesn't have to be scary when you're aware of your surroundings. Have, you talked to this? I'm going to remind you a story. A Russian professor told me when I had Thanksgiving dinner with them allow. Okay. But go ahead I'll tell you the story because we're used to seeing political spectrums like this Yep. something that blew my mind but go ahead I'm sorry interrupt. All right. So so this whole thing you've seen the rise of digital soldiers you know on both sides very frankly and one thing that's been so very. Profound as been the weapon of the MEME. If you will you know a picture with words just blunt truth and it gets into the mind into the back of the mind to communicate truth and it's one thing that's really been powerful on twitter especially in sadly embarrassing, it's. Embarrassing for some, but it's been very empowering for others. People are starting to wake up, and that's actually been a tool that I've seen and actually used to help wake up folks on both sides. This profound truth which has been lost in the. In, the battle of politics if you will, and ultimately at the end, it's it's about righteous government ruling and reigning as opposed to an agenda of evil in darkness. People care about truth. I. Didn't care. Keep you care more about winning, for example, and this election people care more about Donald trump losing than standing for something they believe in sure I told mcdumber I I was proud of that I believe that I could stand up from. Versus you know I. didn't like so. Easy to say, Oh, I don't want to listen to win but Mike had good values right here. The exact same values as me. When I wanted to run in the eleventh district against Hayley Stevens, which would have been a disaster because that's super liberal. I talked to him and we had almost the exact same values and I I'm with you percent. Yep. So one thing that we're seeing you bring a great point here by the way this is awesome segue. Has To do with the political mask that's worn over the spiritual condition of the person or the movement. So what we're seeing on the left and then what we're seeing on the right, what we're seeing on the left is this movement and it manifested whether it's Elissa slack in or Hillary Clinton or whomever. and. It's that spirit of what they call Jabel who is Jessica? Why is that relevant this even? Bring into the conversation. In the Bible in history the spirit of Jazz Avella up in history rises up against real authority will fight anyone that threatens its control. It will permit an except the shedding of innocent blood is got zero respect for life. Basically, it thrives on that. You're you're actually educated me on this. It believes it's above the law and you might have heard that there's rules for for me but not for the. Rules the and not for me like one way or the other it's got that two tiered system of judge of government if you will, and we've been seeing that that sounds like a leftist. I'm just kidding. Is that what you're getting that? Well Yeah it believes decision I was joking, but I see that. It believes decisions always right. So it's it's not necessarily the person, but it's the spirit inside of that movement inside of that person in that's the spirit of Jessica on the left. So if Joe Tzavellas rising up if there's all this evil or this this demonic doctrine of of heat in control and no respect for life what's on the other side? What's On the other side? The other side is what we call the spirit of Elijah, who is the spirit of Elijah? Well, in the Bible and History Okay Elijah was raised up to combat the spirit of the actual queen of Israel at the time he was it was just about wasn't. Yeah. Yeah and Elijah was a prophet of God. You came up and you might hear the Bible. Story about. Calling down fire from heaven and that was a great awakening for the people of Israel back then because God showed up and Jessica Bells, did not and the people realized they have been lied to they've been deceived they've been loving and believing lies and they've gone off the wrong path for so long and that's almost kind of like where we're at right now in a spiritual sense, we've been going down this this. Yeah and it took eight years in my opinion it took eight years of an Obama government. To bring up a righteous anger in wake up these these prophetic and patriotic eagles. In this trump movement inside of the trump movement that are saying absolutely not we will not stand for this. We will stand for Truth Life Liberty the. Remember the old. Superman. He's Chris is men are. Just Superman in general he he stood for what was it? Truth Justice and the American Way Right, yeah truth justice, and the American. What happened truth justice and the American way. It's gone. I read. I. Watch a video that talked about how The there's the it's the ten deadly sins. And what's the opposite of ten like Ten Commandments, which is tentatively soon as. The versus jealousy and things like that charity versus chastity. Like It was talking about how churches being taken out and people are like, Oh you have to donate because of that because envy instead of donating on your own and it was like the ten things that like most church people do on their own is good nature without needing recognition. and. Then there's a left that it's like you need to donate to this man because he's poor envy jealousy, Gotcha and I. Talked about the People like in the middle of the street and the breakdown, the moral fabric and how religions lost and our with. The mob culture, whatever it is a really good video and my nineteen year old cousin who was dads on the Jimmy Kimmel show as a basis she doesn't California but she's a conservative and she gets. Hot Coffee poured on her all the time from people just she's so soft and sensitive. Nice. She's a sweetheart. And she has to call me and say BJ. I believe this but can you help me write this paragraph? Might my paper backwards? I have to write the argument. I. Have to help a reverse argument for her she can get a great. In that. Crazy. Because your teachers are the Tina Gender. Queer. And and yeah. So it it we live in a really really really, and this is where we're at right now it's like there is absolute insanity on certain craziness of the left where there is no right or wrong up his down left is right right is wrong. And Death is life. You know it's just craziness yet and it's like if you're against them against left mob, you're wrong. Exactly. If you're on the right side, you're wrong I mean like it doesn't respect authority believes it's always. EXPECT RELIGION IT sets spirits, not even just a religion spirituality, right? Because I'm a spiritual right so thou shalt not kill Thou still exactly. There's a million dollars taken it exactly. These are principles just describe what we call principles of the Kingdom Yeah God's kingdom the Kingdom that is establishing creation there seven days a week there the sky is blue the grass is greener seven days a week you don't kill innocent human life. You do not murder innocent you you take care of your neighbor you love your neighbor, you love your Creator as you know Howard. It's with all your heart mind body and strength. That's that's what Jesus taught. That's what the Bible teaches in. Frankly that's where America's started. Well, we're a Christian nation even though we we. Worship people they forget that are a Christian. Here's something to take away if anyone walks away with something, keep this in mind there's only been two nations in the history of mankind been established and founded on the Bible and forgot. The first nation was Israel in God chose Israel but America chose God and that's where we started four hundred years ago. It was actually for it'll be four hundred years. This November. Was the establishment of the mayflower compact. The week of the election is the four hundred anniversary. Of The mayflower compact and spread the cancer then. Hopefully they don't cancel it. I have a feeling covid nineteen is going to be over on November fourth. I can't wait can't wait. So. Anyway I'm I'm trying to get some people on your. There's some people that I know there are very religious. Okay and I think there'd be. I think they would like this conversation. Sure. So. I WanNa, play a clip actually calculate. So there's not enough for you L. teed up right here right now. So this is this is from press conferences a few days ago in the White House is it trumpers kill him again this is. This is this is this is trump killing. mcenaney she's amazing. This is trump taking a question from a reporter and. She's asking all about this this queue this movement, and you know like Oh my gosh, you're you're a Wacko if you if you like whatever but guess what? He didn't announce it. He actually made her think and actually showed the fruit behind what's going on here check this out. What you go to other I, understand like. Do. Much about the movement. I have heard that it is gaining in. Popularity. These people They watch the streets Portland. They watch what happened in New York City and just the last six or seven months, but this was starting. Even, four years ago when I came here, almost four years can you believe it? These people that don't like seeing. What's going on in places like Portland and places like Chicago and New York. Cities and states. I've heard these are people that love our country that just don't like seeing so I don't know really anything about it other than. They do supposedly like me. Of. would. Like to see. Problems in these areas especially northern, we're talking about go away because there's no reason to Democrats can't run a city and if they can't, we will send in. Federal whether it's troops along forcement, whatever they do I will send him and we'll straighten out their problem and twenty four hours. You are listening. File Kampong. Are. added. Is that supposed to be Burgess. I can help save the world when problems so willing to. Put Myself Out there and we are action we're saving the world from the. Radical. Philosophy. Australia this country. The, rest of the world would follow. The rest of the world would follow. That's the importance of this country and when you look at some. Say. Up. When you use when use his radical left I mean they're they're getting so many human traffickers county and California exactly, and these people are just coming out of. This I don't care who you are. It should be in the news absolutely right I don't care if it's Tom Hanks I don't care if Donald trump that stuff needs to be in the news. We need to have. I was speaking to one of my friends from Taiwan right. And a hey, watch the news and they go no they go. We think it's crazy that you guys actually watch the news. Because they have states, magic, TV and. We don't get real news. Yeah. So that's going to ground like bribery and stuff like that. Sure I've. Ever. Tell you what I use. Now download the news three sixty news three sixty. Okay. So like when the Beirut bombing off, yeah you got articles from like a three hundred and sixty different countries. Israel Australia. So you could make your own decision. Okay and it it's really helped me because I don't I don't Really Watch Fox News I don't watch CNN I o n one America news I don't watch. Because I? Think it's I think it's super bias towards right like extra people but I would be open to Washington you and you know what's interesting Mrs What I love and believe it or not I'm GONNA GIVE CNN some credit here. Okay. When they started out, I don't know thirty some years ago. Good. It was headline news. That's all. Yeah me too and then ten o'clock or nine o'clock. Factor and Hannity even though I disagree with sure sure and I give them credit where credit's due they started out great. I feel that they at least somewhat anyway. Perfect but I kinda, yeah I do feel that they did without limits doing and now it's just it's the spin to the hard left and it's just it's just been nuts. So with regards to I, think people are seeing it and that's what gets. Well I say that to say this with only in its headline news during the day, it's kind of actually what CNN used to be just the information that's out the spent. So that's the stuff the Mike Detmer was on a lot when he was run out campaign. When they stormed the when they stormed the capitol. I made a huge point on that. My last podcast I said when I know these people. Yup, I was so pissed I was like they did not storm the capital you know what? I mean they walked in the militia said hello to let them right in. There all friends and it really pissed me off when I saw my job rogin and they're like. The I. Hate when I hate when there's people I know like Wanda and Mike and people in the Denver campaign when they get in slammed when I know that they're not like that. It'd be like it'd be like if it happened to you like you're a great person. And then they're like, oh, her mind Barbie brought his you know AK47 into the Capitol building threatening shoot congressman that would never happen. But. Of course, that's what's Hey, what stops a bad guy with a gun me. A good guy with a gun. Yeah. And and those who know how to operate it can operate properly yet wrong with having a gun, it's a tool it's not it's not gonNA kill someone on its own I always tell people are gone and a gun and abortion are two things that will kill somebody immorally if you use them an incorrect way. Exent. Yeah. I hear I hear where you're coming. Find I, I. Know You're more you're not a big fan of abortions but. It, you know maybe maybe a hundred people a year might have their life saved because when abortion maybe. I don't know the stats because because it's So you and you make a good point. So I wanted to tell you a little bit about more back my. Plea so in the last year, the last couple of years. Actually going to New York, city I believe people have worship should go meet their creator and that's the big issue. So. Where I kind of felt woken up so to speak in a in a good way was after you smoke. Pardon me I'm sorry I I keep cracking jokes about smell of New York. Oh, New York. Okay. So I was in Times Square and There was in May I don't know four three or four five years ago can't remember. And there was car that drove up on the side and Drayton Tarrant Times Square, right in downtown. and. It May this humongous boom be crashed and everything and I remember people running away just just had no idea what's going on and I had no idea. But just pretty much almost subconsciously and what fuming quicken loans work friends we found ourselves running towards the blast. And White People. But I didn't realize it until I got home like a few days later I'm like you know what was it a bomb or something? What was it was just it was crazy guy he ended up running up on the sidewalk that was had been standing there five minutes earlier I would have been dead. I was there walking on that sidewalk on that street five minutes prior that's crazy. I was five minutes away. So. Long Story Short I find myself running towards danger when when you see something you see people in trouble what kind of person are you when you see the young and the innocent the helpless though the widow, the orphan what kind of a human being are you said a religious thing? It's not a political thing it's a human and kingdom thing which kingdom are we in? Are we in Kingdom of light and truth or became of death and darkness, and that's really where we're at right now in political. In twenty. It's hard because we have some people in their first one, the people in darkness. Yes. We have people that actually want to go out and kill five year old kids and shoot him in that Rhino sick it sick de Monica these people are literally Demon possessed a lot of them when I went out to the probably rally as an independent observer right? Because I just wanted to see if they're actually racist and they're not I promise you that I didn't hear single racial slur I. Always said, I WANNA meet I want meat an TV person in the street and teach him a lesson because of what they do the people. I didn't I stayed I stayed with security. and. Then we went out and I asked him a bunch of questions and then come in on a make sure they get. Tons of questions for him. Sure. Their biggest complaint is they are anti fascist they hit ANTIFA and the hate communism right? They have I think out of one hundred people twenty of them were black twenty of them Mexican sixty of them. K. So. How's that National Group Yeah? But the news portrays it that way. And it was embarrassing. Really. It made me feel sad that that's why. We were going to try to you know when we have, we give people writing blogs should be good. Good News We don't know the answer. The questions was a hey, we'll. We'll get into it exactly. So I want to do the right thing when when we're doing the You know we're doing. News and rendering is most third opinion. So all right. So what's next on your list there but I so I keep talking that's all good I, really enjoy having conversations with you. I haven't it's been you know close to seven months. So we. Found Myself. I got home and Checkup from the neck up and it was almost like I had newhart for. Just for a new a new. newhart analysts generally describe it. And I found myself wanting to give of myself my time, my energy, my money towards helping those that are the most vulnerable and in our world right now, there's this in my opinion cancer called abortion that we've allowed to be legalized. It's it's where people can go pay money to kill another human being I mean ask a question if you go to the hospital. And you're. In your heart stops beating, you are pronounced what? You're coded, but you might not be pronounced dead yet. Okay. Once you are coded once you once the pronounces you dead you are you're dead but my my sister had a client that coated six times on the table during the surgery and right survived but once you're pronounced dead, you're dead right so you can code to come back to the lab -solutely. So let me ask you that you're already dead but what if the heart starts beating again? Are you are you still dead? No you're your life again because your heart meeting executives, there's you're still there. Well, how does that any different when there is a heartbeat inside of you're making my argument for me exactly why? Why I am. I'm okay. With being pro-choice because what if you want to go to hospice or something like that happens down the line the government says you can't hospice or the Doctor Says Your Dad and Her Church beating, you know what I mean right? Right it all has everything to do with diversity of healthcare has nothing to do with you my morality of killing innocent babies I think that's disgusting. So so here's here's where I found myself just speaking of where I came from and where I was the last few years. I found myself with heart of wanting to help and protect make positive change, and that's what we all should do to some degree in my opinion. Yeah. Because I I felt the same way I think we team up and do it absolutely, and so I took a couple of bucks. I to the right causes at the right time absolutely. Yes. So, one thing that that I found myself, I started volunteering with the Michigan heartbeat coalition in Oakland County and that's the Cindy Holland and. London that to they were I'm pretty sure they were involved to some degree at Sydney. Since. So I started listening I started getting connected with the grassroot movements of Patriotic Christian American value, human beings that are just wanting to get this country back on track get the state of Michigan back on track get politics gone but get back to righteous government aid. You ever notice when you met those people, they were more accepting than the wingers. Like I when I told people that I was pro life but pro I was pro-life pro-choice Known in the DETMER campaign ridiculed me. They gave me. Hugs. I said, I struggled with every day took me and my God you know what I mean. Sure because I have a wife from in Soviet Russia and they never ridiculed me. and. So I was like, wow, and a lot. A lot of people are seen that because conservatives are really the party of tolerance. We don't care if you're black or white, we want everybody to have the opportunity. So absolutely, and so I, find myself involved in the organization we long story short about a year into the the movement I think it was a little over two hundred and ten thousand signatures for the Michigan heartbeat bill and what that means when a heartbeat is detected, the baby is protected and what we're in the process twenty one rule now. Now even. So heartbeat because you can, you can find a heartbeat. You can find a heartbeat in as little as I think like three weeks twenty one. Yeah. You can treat the baby but twenty one weeks. So if there's something wrong with that, you can treat the baby within twenty one weeks in the womb I believe. So I'm not a doctor on that but I do know basically when heartbeats detected babies protected good. We a lot of steam. We actually got a lot of grassroots movement and and resources together, and we're going to be basically we're reinventing ourselves right now and the new organization is called. Michigan. Four life the Web address is M. I you send it to merely you can put that on the the website M I am the number four. Life. Dot Org. Archery. Yup Now I'll I will go with you to these but just know that you know I'm not super pro-life. You know that right now understood but I I In the government but I am pro-life personally I could never imagine a Bush heaven know boarding in my beautiful daughter and so what we WANNA do this with the mission is behind here. It's not just you know. Stopping abortion, but it's actually a new organization that's about changing hearts and minds to. Get them for exactly finding like helping people with financial support with resources with education. Maybe they could raise with adoption and PR- exactly with adoption pregnancy centers because it's one thing and yes, adoption should certainly be part of it. Imagine what would happen in this world? There's so many Americans. In people in other countries to that would love to be able to adopt a child and it's so incredibly expensive to just to be able to try to do that but it's so incredibly cheap. To, kill and have an have an abortion, what's that you thought? About, because they seem to be a lot more Democrats. So I'm glad you took Joe. I'm for offer free and Fair Elections I. But yet you know I made that joke. You know what I'm saying I don't so I mean I didn't mean it I don't want anybody out there was just a joke game I have a sixth sense of humor I wasn't but imagine if the tables were turned imagine if it was more expensive and I mean, we're talking ten thousand dollars to have an abortion as opposed to maybe just a few hundred dollars to fifty to adopt another person I tend bring them under your wing I took a friend to go get an abortion because she was nervous in her parents when take her and This was in high school t shirt it was two hundred, fifty bucks. She was seventeen years old. Their parents didn't know she had to go to court and the the the judge signed off on it. Now Zach, wow, this is crazy. Yup. Then I'm sitting in the abortion room with people taking pictures of US and everybody thinks it's my kid. But I would you know she was she was an athlete and I knew her for a long time I said what you're I'm gonNA stick with you. And protect you and I'm not GonNa let anybody talk smack do not take care you and take you. And ultimately, it's it's cheap regrets it to this day I believe it she has. She struggles really really mush because she can't she. She's over forty and she was with advocate and that was her one chance. Potentially our one chance, and so it's it's about changing hearts and minds, and ultimately there's there's one thing and this is what I've come from where I come from. Now who has changed my heart and who has changed. My mind has been Jesus has been sure Jesus Christ. It has. Repeat that you said, yes. Yes. Sure. Yes sure. So We're GONNA talk more about this because I want to get more into faith sure and religion. Absolutely. I just don't have to go with now. Well, we'll talk it out together man walk together because I like going to church usually go to posting temporary award. Sure. But my friends family sick and it's just weird so I don't like my myself but I'd like to go with other people where we can have coughing. We don't have to get super dressed up absolutely and what what it's all about what I'm learning myself finding myself going down as far as the road that I'm on right now is not necessarily a denomination. There's so many splinters of Christianity in churches and religion if you WANNA call it that. The way that I'm just kind of seeing the world right now I got a new set of eyes I'm seeing it like your. Kingdom of light or kingdom of darkness and things go with things know the the the abortion is on that hard left. It's not on the right at all. There's more pro-life people than than death and there's that mean that's been going around and it's it shows you the two. The two tickets for you know trump versus Biden. You know if you're a Democrat, it starts out with killing babies, Republican you for letting babies live. It's emotion. It's not emotion. It's principle it's life and death. Well Yeah. The first one on the. So, Democrats Democrats say oh it's emotional because they want you to have an abortion. You're also GONNA go with guns because they're gonNA. Say It's emotional that guns kill people. then. They're going to try to paint the Republicans into. Okay. Well, you you know are against a woman's rights to choose. Your. Then they're gonNA put pin them against Oh yeah. Your support murderers. And then the Republicans are GonNa come back and be like here. Here's a balanced budget, the budget three, point, nine, six, trillion dollars a year we only raise about three point five. About points we're barring point six, trillion, a year debt. So are you kidding to pay for that and ten years right? When you, WANNA spend X. amount of dollars on. The green new deal. So wish we can get some more tea party people back in their. Oh, they're they're they're coming I think trump in that movement the Maga- movement. If you will he's consolidating the tea party I was in the tea party in two thousand twelve all for Ron Paul Rumble Yup I lake. He's the I like I like I like politicians that are consistent. Yeah and one thing that really struck me about him. Very interesting. And I'll give give trump credit for not taking a salary by the way he's doing very good job with that. I'm very interesting discussion for it. Yeah. We'll figure you don't. You don't do anything. Right? into the crazy no no, you can't do anything right to the crazy people but he's done a lot of a lot of good things. Exactly. So let me back this. Talking about the establishment anti-establishment yeah. Some are draw this picture. I was speaking to a Russian because my as Russian founded they all moved here and they celebrate A. Piece of paper. He blew he's a professor at Notre Dame. He blew my mind. Okay and now it's not going to happen for a second but you know how we were trained to learn how the political spectrum like this. Okay. left-wing. Radicals right okay. In Russia, they were learn to do it like this. Okay lecturing right wing and their biggest fears when to anti-establishment meet to fight the establishment. Okay. Now. Right now, you're so far apart but imagine defend chief and proud boys well, they're not that, but if they met to fight the establishment. All Hell breaks loose. And blew my mind Russia's country right I. Mean we we know this but could you imagine if to anti established movements even like? Imagine. If ANTIFA and the KKK got together and just terrorize people. That's not good. That's the worst. That's the worst case scenario. Now, we have the left over here saying and doing whatever they want because I think forty percent of the left believe they can say can get away with whatever they want. Now we have the KKK in the radicals in this box that we allow them in a conversation, but they're looking over here saying, well, these people have to say what they want so as soon as. Trump's gone. These people are going to come out and be like F. This F. Thanks race racist this racist that make us all bad. As you're going to keep going back and forth Dr John Peterson predicted. And said we got so it's up to us as leaders in our injury up to be like, hey, everybody we need to chill we need. Let's go sit down and have a beverage. Not, not, not a beer talking through because I found that that. You have you ever have an argument with somebody and then came in when we just don't have water and we'll just talk through and then. Everything changes you. You may not disagree but. WE'RE ALL AMERICANS YEAH WE WE RETURN AMERICANS HERE's. Here's the interesting thing though we gotTA keep this in mind For the constant we're Americans in my opinion because of the constitution were Americans because of who we are that foundation I'm American. No matter. What right well, here's here's the hard part to digest. If we separate. Ourselves. From. Those foundational principles such as the Constitution, such life liberty, the pursuit of happiness. And The bill of rights deliver rights and the respect for the rule of law and the respect for innocent life. And looking out for those who are less fortunate. In my opinion in my soul anyway I don't I can't feel that we're still. See that people that we were supposed to be. Here's a very interesting point that John the second President United States made. He said this constitution share John Adams or not quincy. and. It was John Adams another presence. Around The second president said, the Constitution was made. For a moral and religious populous and it's completely insufficient for anything else for anything else it was. It was who I forgot, who wanted the WHO wanted the big the big government was at the south. The. South one in state's rights south wanted that you're talking about civil war. Yeah. Okay. So you know when they sign the bill of rights because the when we read the Constitution, we had to have the the the bill of Rights I. Believe the north, wanted to large national government in the South said, we won't Fai unless you have civil rights freedom of speech guns states rights. And that's only reason we we signed it, and then when slavery came along. You know the north hated slavery. The South viewed it as a way of life and So when Abraham Lincoln issued the patient proclamation. He was hoping that the slaves in the south rebel against the Southern Army. Right. He can use them as pawns in a way. based. On history I I wasn't there. But from what I've, read. And It didn't work the way he wanted to work because I don't believe the civil war was fought over slavery. Now, there's a million people that are disagree with me I. Believe it was over. The South not being able to free labor whether it was white black or anything. to sell their products, the way they need to, and it was an argument over states rights. Makes Sense to me too but but it's hard but you can't you can't. You cannot say slavery wasn't part because. Trade Right. I just don't think I just don't think Abraham Lincoln was like, Oh, I'm just GONNA to. Issue them patient mission goodness on heart. I think he wanted uprising in the southern. Army. A history before I went to political science and that's what I learned. So Nice Nice and I'll read it over again because I might be wrong. So okay. All right. Let's move on to yet. So I love that, you can't prepare it because I really I really like listening to you you have. Unique perspectives on so many things I wish we could speak on the phone more. Busy. All right. Well to make do we we will absolutely absolutely. So. Where we're see things at right now is just at the dual is obviously the left versus the right all of that right now. But why in twenty twenty and so there's something very interesting. This year two, twenty, twenty they the week of the election. The week of the election just happens to be the four hundredth anniversary of the mayflower compact Do you know what the Mayflower compact is? I used I used to know okay. Talking to you. So so pilgrims came over. Plymouth Rock and. In Sixteen Sixteen twenty. They came over and be before they got here. People on the boat there. The scientists called the mayflower compact. They were there. They said, you know what? We're GONNA establish a new land in new home for the. Furtherance of during Christopher Columbus time it was after that. This is after that. The Indians so fourteen ninety two is first Columbus sail the ocean blue. And then about one, hundred, twenty years later, that's when the pilgrims came over talking with rock and we'll see my history starts pre pre World War One to world war two action and stuff like that. So where where was America why how, and when, and where was America founded? Well, some people feel that America was founded in sixteen twenty with the founding of the mayflower compact four hundred years ago this year. And what was the purpose of the mayflower compact to establish in the furtherance of the Christian faith? Why is that relevant important to to us here now, four hundred years later because that's who we were supposed to be four hundred years ago in my opinion I don't think God has changed his mind. He's just waiting for a certain people to rise up right now and say, yes, I will embrace my destiny. Yes say I'm GonNa to say, yes, you let your will be done. We're going to be a light to the nations. We're GONNA come out of the twenty twenty election stronger than ever before because God himself is letting these left is crazy demonic lunatics the hard left the heart evil. Let's. Let's go back. To the leftist this this because Jordan John John here. He's reasonable. Yes. Right I like crazy the crazies if you will the ones that turned into infants when they don't get their way like a conversation with them and they're like, I'm not talking to you because you know. They turned into infants and their trophy babies. They don't care about anybody else in so that they're basically exposing themselves and they're the ones that in it's not just that but it's it's an invasion through infiltration inside of our government and that's the thing and we've been seeing it and it's been on the left and the right. Very frankly how do we fix this? We had to do in the schools. You know it's interesting at the school. Very important. Do you remember you ever watch that movie? Captain America Winter Soldier. No now you need to. Love your captain. Ron I was. Getting around to America Winter Soldier. they basically. They go inside of the the government intelligence agency called Sheffield. That's that's what Captain America and they basically say this this has been compromised. We need to start over from the ground up and very frankly. That's what trump is here to do is more or less kind of restructure things from the ground up that whole movement and the the white hats. If you will inside of our government, there's white hats and there's black hats the heads just. Call the white hats you can call them give me an example of what has something names. As General Jeff Seven General Flynn. General White Hat for sure. General I do I think he's a Goddamn Patriot? Yes. When refunding allows guys got arrested and were there You know I have a little bit of history. I I there are seven people on there. I said I don't care about Rogers don't and all these people General Flynn. To tighten that we either Titan he's an honest man she is. He'll be exonerated two years later, and then he got exonerate head. General. User leading. He was leading spy Yup. And he was faith and they went after him up of course he did he's the he was a threat to them. He knows he probably knows where the bodies are buried. Yeah and I know what's going on I. I have a pretty good idea of what's going on and I unfortunately. I don't think the right people are going to go to jail well, and that's what I think. We're going to be seeing in the next couple of years hopefully is that cleaning out because in order for our purpose to go forth is America for Life Liberty and the pursuit of happiness to truly come forth in as a force for good in the earth. Yeah you gotTa take out the Blackhawks you got take out the wickedness you gotta take the evil. Stop the child sacrifices, what it is and the abortion and understand if you go to abortion mel and there's very well documented by the way they're Satanists and witches and legitimate warlocks people that literally do the evil of the evil and they don't care whether you believe in God or not. They embrace the the evil one they embraced the death and that is their food source is child sacrifice on a spiritual level with Andrew Cuomo and stuff like then. I have a question about this. Where did this come from? Like how long has this been going on I? Know how? Hollywood's been doing it with. You know. Mark Rob. Roy was like a, you're still the same. Repeat, what he said. But. You Know Michigan was like number two high was number three. I've talked to people was like listen. If someone someone is trying to kidnap you and if they don't kill you right away, they're trying to get you to a secondary location. So drive a car into a another thing. I I. I've taught people how to get a ZIP ties. I've taught people how to get a piece of duct tape. Duct tape in this room I let you wrap it around my my wrist ten times I can get out of it and four seconds. you know I always tell them don't let them go to a secondary device where they can secure your locks because you'll never be Fonteyn make crash a carpenter people on. And it's a shame. The you know scary in in cove nineteen world that we're in right now is what everyone wearing a mask in public to heaven forbid but if someone's doing something nefarious or trying to. Traffic kids or whatever everyone's wearing a mask yeah. You can't even see someone mouth for help. I'm not the biggest fan of amass but. I do it to make other people feel comfortable when I go into battle, go into stores that often because I work outside. and. Then I I wear them around my seven zero parents because they're seventy right? Right. But I WANNA make sure that you know my sister's a doctor and she's like you know we didn't know when this first came out you know and all that news is everywhere and people relationship. Yes. Sure. My sister has no no she she just told me should be Jane. We don't know everything about this. We're trying to give you the best information as possible right and the American people are spending it like radiates we don't know what's going on yet. So just just wear masks take time gives a couple of months. We can figure this out what month was that this is a like February march for started. Okay. Because they didn't shut down doing heart surgeries in lung surgeries until like April. Okay Gotcha. So Yeah. Let's read this a little bit early. So maybe we can have a conversation afterwards. Did you did you touch anything else one thing that would encourage everyone to do? Number one first and foremost. Make sure you're registered to vote, yes? Yes. Yes. and please please please. I'm begging you. Ask for an absentee ballot. And handed into clerk's office don't mail it in but handed. Clerks. Please do that I. Know I know there's a lot of people are getting the mail stuff out there. Yeah. There's a lot of deceased people like. If I was going to my grandparents house, I get that and I could fill it out and get a balance ended and. Eight hundred sixty four people voted for Paul George Against might leave. ten thousand votes think accounted. So. If you are GonNa vote by mail vote early. Yeah. Get your absentee ballot early. Please do absentee ballot not mail in. And if you can, if you're healthy, please go to the polls. Absolutely it's a it's a duty that we do and I want to also encourage anyone who is who embraces the rule of law who wants to see the right things done I want to encourage them to volunteer. For whether it's working the polls or as a ballot challenger. It takes in order for to win it just takes the good people to do nothing to sit on their hands it's time to get off your behinds and get on the frontlines okay. If you're a reasonable Democrat doing that absolutely so you're a reasonable Democrat and you can stand one hundred feet away and you don't have a sign and Tribuna next to Paul and say I would. Do. Mind voting for the person that's democracy free and fair. That's fine. That's fine. I'll be I'll be at the polls saying, Hey, please vote for trump exactly. If someone yells at me I'll say, Hey, do you know I'd love to have a conversation why I'm doing it. So for me personally, every everything else will click in economics the the the prosperity however, our tax structure will be. The first deleting leading thing for me, personally bj is the issue of life. Yeah. Everything else is secondary everything is important but the leading issue for me personally is life versus death, and that's where twenty twenty five is important. money is just a a a a a money's a tool religions are currency. I could be dead broke but if I treated you at the most utmost respect and. Encourage Intrigue Great. And like. You know what I'm saying like I was just an awesome friend you. I would I wouldn't doubt that you would have a place for me to sleep to get back on my feet for a little bit absolutely that's called loving your neighbor loving your friend taking care of someone else as long as it wasn't a piece of shit you know what I mean clean up after myself and I was a good person. I've tried to help so many people and people stolen from me and then I hated then. But Mo-, I have like five. Like come on over, we're going out of town. He's watching dogs. We have so much valuables. We trust you in the House and all my close friends trust me so. It's nice. That way I always say money money's just a tool relationships currency. We choose to do with our tools and our time. That's where the difference is going to be made. Yeah. Because especially quicken I mean we've probably made over two hundred, fifty thousand dollars for a quick end and then some years it's like one sixty or one thirty depending on what is lighter. And it really doesn't, and then we have bills. and. But that fluctuation who cares because long food on the table we have a good relationship with our kids were out having fun. We have good relationships with our neighbours xactly to mind. So yeah, Hey Jamie tells the music as I do an entrepot. I'm. GonNa I'm GONNA switch up the sound of. DETROIT DETROIT DETROIT DETROIT. All right everybody. This is B.j re your co host, Detroit uncensored August twenty second two, thousand, twenty, it's five, fifty, nine I had her Barbie on with me. We had awesome discussion about. This life liberty the pursuit of happiness and getting back to our foundations and truth yet, and also making sure that we try to get maximum voter turnout by using absentee. Votes We were both fans of fair and firm elections. I'm a big fan of. Full voter turnout as long as done the right way. Yes. we'll have him back in We're going to be doing We have we have so many people to talk to like people in Pena people, Elga neck that you know we'll be in the studio lot but loss of take some of our other Clinton out other areas to speak to like go. To. James not coming out peanut with us you know what I mean. So, we can talk to those guys and then come back into the studio. And the goal is to build A. A, really solid right-leaning conservative. A. Push. To fight they're. Using logic emotion and. Stint on the hang around the truth. So I think we can do it I. Think we can help raise money and I. Think we can between us and our age group I think we can have some good candidates absolutely. So I'm looking forward to it. Thank you, bj. Thank you. It's really an honor that you came in and you'll be back in again. So Let's let's wrap.

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Is a college degree still relevant in our ever changing world?

The Homeschooling and Liberty Podcast

28:08 min | 1 year ago

Is a college degree still relevant in our ever changing world?

"Hello, good, morning, and welcome. My name is Graham and I'm delighted to be with your today as we start these journeys into asking what it is to be really free free from constraints and conformity free from constant testing and peer pressure and free from unsafe an uninspiring school environments. Free to let children explore the world around them through play corporation and inspiration free to let children learn naturally following their curiosity, and then this creativity recounted that learning isn't about going well at school it's about engaging with. You you. Carrying you miss around. In today's show we ponder a different future and go to the heart of the matter and asked what education could look like in say five or ten years. We ask you colleges for everyone and what employers are actually looking for in today's ever changing market can the years of debt obtaining a vague degree to pursue a career that may not even exist in a few years ever shadow of? Varied work experience demonstrating dedication innovation and hard work from a young age can home schoolers and any student for that matter stop building their online presence. Then seek out companies that may take them on as an apprentice in businesses. They already have a deep understanding of and interest in. Well, today's guest has spent many years questioning these very topics. Today we welcomed the endlessly positive and always inspiring Isaac Morehouse. Isaac is the CEO of crash, the career launch platform and practice a startup apprenticeship program. Isaac founded practice back in two thousand thirteen with a now proven track record of hundreds of students gaining guidance to pursue careers they actually enjoy. So massive. Thank you for joining us today. Isaac. Hey. Thanks so much for having me grandma I'm really really thrilled to be here. Love what you're doing. And you to start off by telling us a little bit about your own schooling I'm looking back. We just like to get an insight into how you look back on that. Now I was positive or negative experience and juicy. You use any skills from those days helping you today in your entrepreneurship endeavors. Yes absolutely. I have very positive. Educational Experience. So my my mom home-schooled me and my two older siblings and my dad was in a car accident when I was three and has a closed head injury. He requires twenty four hour care and he lived at home with us but there was always home health aides in the house to help out with him. So essentially my mom was you know not not only a single mother but actually raising three kids as well as taking care of a disabled husband. And they had decided to home school us before my dad got the accidents just because they didn't like. The things that were being taught in the quality of education in the public school system and the private school system is. Often really similar but also really expensive meds an accountant he was very cheap. And they and my mom was a teacher had had taught special ed in in loves teaching. So they had love this idea. So after my dad was in the exit, my mom's stuck with it. And we had swerve by necessity because of you know my mom doing this alone taking care of her husband we had a very unstructured schooling experience. My mom did not think this was good. She always felt guilty about it. She felt bad, I mean we had home school classes. There was a big home school community where we grow in West. Michigan. So we had some classes in coops and there were. Sports teams you know basketball team in some of that stuff, and we had a quite robust social life based around your church and home schooling groups. But in terms of like sitting there doing subjects and homework curriculum, you know she would go to these curriculum fares by a bunch of stuff. Get all excited and we just never do. We'd kind of because she'd get busy and we'd all like scattering play Lagos. Until she came back and said you're supposed to be doing and so She always felt like it was not structured enough. We should be doing all this stuff. You know we we knew some home schoolers who were doing like Latin and Greek and all this highly structured, and we were not in effect it was unschooled. So we had a ton of independence and you know the need to sort of take care of ourselves in many ways and a lot of responsibility. So household chores, things like that making meals and laundry. You know I i. we had different jobs, paper outs and stuff from a very young age, and that was that was always something that was emphasized and again partially because it was a necessity, my mom needed help with a lot of this stuff with my dad not being sort of you know in the picture of needing help as well. So might my childhood was a very short of? Wild. Almost chaotic at times mix of interacting with a lot of different people doing some classes in some clubs and submission trips and stuff with church and very little structure in the schooling curriculum side a lot of responsibility with chores and sort of work and things to do in. I cannot ask for anything more I. Think it was a really great combination, my Sophomore Year of high school my. Brother and sister were both out of house most of the time with jobs and things and I. I was Kinda like stuck there and feeling lonely and a couple of my friends went to a small private school to play on the basketball team here because it was better than the home school team, and so I decided to go join them for a year and went to this private. School for a year and it was fine. I had a fine experience and enjoy the social aspects. But I remember feeling like man, this is so limiting I have to be here everyday the same hours every day I have to be on the same pace as everyone else whether or not I need to. You know we're all just sort of tracked here as if we're all like uniform widgets. Can earn money during the day which I had sort of been accustomed to. Sort of flex things in Taylor them to my own schedule It just felt really constraining so. After that, I went straight to community college and Kinda work classes around my work schedule and. Know. Sort of got regained some of that independence in my schedule. So I loved the way that we were sort of unskilled and I think my mom felt guilty about it for years and now that I think all of her kids were all unscrewing our own kids and we all have a more radical version of home schooling. I. Think she now sees Hey, that actually might not have been too bad. Roy So she was almost a pioneer at the time of unscrambling yet. Dental Phya near. Yes. That's great. Yeah. So When you decided to carry their own in your own family. Did you have any sort of philosophies? Did you study any in particular is there anywhere you might recommend people to to look into these audited just naturally come about that. You would carry on having your kids on school. Yeah. Not surprisingly wasn't natural because I didn't. I didn't internalize my own experience as unschooled I had never heard that phrase before it was just homeschooling and we were sort of you know not all that structured. So when we had our own kids, our plan was to home school that my wife had had briefly home schooled for a couple of years and loved it, and then she went to school and she never really liked school it just especially high school she just Kinda Kinda hated actual in. So we decided we want to home school we both had positive experiences with it. and. So we started with all kinds of curricula like really structure like heavy duty curricula and it was brutal The first few years my wife was just like kept paring it down more and more because it was just constantly with my son and try to get him to do it. We knew he was really bright verbally and things, but he didn't he didn't WanNa read wouldn't. He wouldn't learn to read and we knew he could and it was frustrating we're trying to do all this stuff. After a couple of years of that and it just wearing us down. I you know I had read John Taylor Gatto dumbing us down and I had. I sort of just internalized that as a reinforcement of things I already knew about the public education system just how how bad it is and how you know unhealthy for kids in many ways and for learning. But the more I sorta let it sink in a realize that a lot of those same structures. A lot of the default method of schooling is basically just mirroring the school structure, but in the home and I had sort of unwittingly kind of continued with that, and then I came across the Sudbury Valley School, which I had never heard of before in someone's told me about this and they said we. Had moved to Charleston they said we WANNA start a Sudbury school in Charleston. So I went and started looking up the Sudbury valley school and I read everything I could get my hands on about it written by the founders students and I happen to be at a conference where one of the founders Daniel Greenberg spoke it was a panel with a Sudbury school a Montessori School in like a very traditional like. Preparatory now, private school and they each gave their sort of approach and philosophy and I was just blown away between that and reading about it. This sudbury approach of basically just let kids do whatever they want to let them follow their interest and really it's the parents who struggled with that environment not the kids the kids sort of after a kind of a period of realizing that the parents are not. Bluffing that they really can pursue their interests they end up teaching themselves everything everybody at the submarine school taught themselves to read eventually some at age four sausage thirteen, and by by the time they were adults they had no difference. In fact, the girl who didn't learn until she was thirteen one, some sort of literary prize in adulthood, and just this pressure to like have kids learn certain things at certain times. It all sort of faded away. It was like the blinders fell off when I discovered the Sudbury Valley School, and then I dug into John holts ends. Peter Graves book free to learn, and it just kind of reinforced over and over again through examples in research that this in fact was the right approach for us and we basically went hand off full unscrewing from there on out Roy. So you much brought the Sudbury modal to your to your own home. That's exactly it, and we've we've kind of looked to to start something like that here. But it's sort of been. You know. Running practice I don't have the time to go full time to start a Sudbury school. So we've kind of done a hybrid. Our kids are unschooled at home, but we try to get together with other unschooled do meet ups in coops and we have a sort of a once a week submarine style thing that rotates location so that so that they can get interactions they're not just here at home with us, but they still have the ability to kind of how they how they spend their time. Yeah. That's fantastic and the rule quite happy is any of your room. Expressed an interest to go to any sort of school they really haven't. So my daughters who are six and almost eight they are running around playing with kids in the neighborhood all the time and pretty much all the kids in the neighborhood go to school, and so they wait until school gets out and then they play with them, play the weekends and and you know they'll play school sometimes with their friends and stuff and I've asked them by because I never want them to feel like we forced them to. Not Go to school. You know do you want to go to school? Would you be interested in that and they always just sort of say like if they were like, no, I'm terrified of it might be a little worried that I like you know somehow indoctrinated them with some unhealthy fear of school but they're always kind of like, no I think I like being at home and you know being able to hang out was you know kids that go to school sometimes and you know they played sports and there's different. Different activities in things. So thus far they're all very happy with it. I'm sure we'll get sign a little bit about the family sort of makeup but do you think there's any essential ingredients I'm here community coming through again and again any other structures or just qualities within the home that you might think maybe not all families could underscore there any sort of limit limitations you see or necessities for a family to have one school. So I honestly really don't and let me and let me explain that by. Saying it's always a question of compared to what. So if you say compared to the ideal scenario for my kids, can I provide an unschooled environment that meets that will know none of us can. There's always there's always a better version of us or the resources we have where the schedule that may provide a better environment than what's possible but compared to the relevant alternatives I think on schooling is pretty much always preferable. So the relevance alternatives especially, you're talking about putting them in a school system public or private. It's almost sort of like. Well, it can't really get much worse and I don't say that to be sensational. I'm not trying to hate on school I don't think people have bad intentions there by any means, kids go through school and and you know it's not like they they don't survive but I think when you look at it, you start to look at the research and you start to look at the way that kids are sort of quote socialized in schools that the the impacts of bullying or just the. Conditioning them to blindly follow authority punishing entrepreneurship calling it cheating. You know constantly strive to like dictating every part of their lives to where you have to ask permission even go to the bathroom. That's all like unhealthy stuff that's being inculcated in children, and if you do nothing more than remove that. And and provide nothing else in its place. I actually think you're still better off. So it's not great compared to the ideal but I think it's better than the alternative. Now, what are some things that I think are really important you know? Had allowing your kids to have access to as much of the world as you can. So the natural world. The world of ideas if you have books around the house or the world of commerce, if you you know work from home or you have, you know you're out and about engaging in business with your kids, you know even just as a consumer or you know people that have businesses kind of leading the MC. So they're not they're not sort of cordoned off to hear kids you stay in the pretend world until you're a grownup and we'll go off and do mysterious things. You don't see her understand in the GROWNUP world letting. Them kind of be a part of the actual world as much as possible. But the key ingredient I think is not having stress and burdening your kids with your own fear and expectations, and that is very, very hard because even when you read all the stuff and you read about how kids with you know twenty hours of focus, learning can learn math and faster than they could in ten years of unfocused teaching you know forced upon them and all this stuff and you know it's true and you've seen some case studies and you. When you're in the moment, you get panicky feelings frequently of like, okay my daughter's eight. She still not reading she still not really showing she's kind of interested she does, but she's not really should I be freaked out her friends have been reading for two years Sean. I'm embarrassed right and it's really hard to not let that come through and make you sort of be of divided mind and believe in theory in this unsettling thing. But then when you freak out, you just start imposing arbitrary rules on your kids and then they're all confused. So it's really key to just. To Really Trust your kids and to trust the process even when it's not perfect and it doesn't look like the ideal you imagined and. Kind of let it. Let it be that big ED trust children. I, think those the big takeaway from John Holts just see the Roy Entrepreneurship and in a massive shift away from the teacher led learning across the board from from schooling all the way fruits university. I. Just want. You could just us a little bit about the starts of your vision for practice how it was born. Yeah. You know I felt like college was a complete waste for me not in terms of you know there were some classes in books that I found interesting and and you know some. Social Components that were interesting and enjoyable but none of those required me to pay tuition I go sit at you can go sit in on college classes for free no one's GonNa stop. You know I was going to say you're not allowed in here until you're reading. So if you're really interested in the ideas learning the lecturers, even the social component football games, whatever none of that requires that you pay money and lock yourself into four years or five years and get the degree what people are buying is. The piece of paper and I like everyone else some fifteen years ago when I when I went to college thought, you just have to have it to get a job because everybody had told me that my whole life got have a degree to get a job and I felt like this is so autumn working to three days a week to pay my way through college and learning so much on the job and making pretty good money, and then I'm turning around and paying all to the institution were no one. Seems to want to go to class they cheer when classes canceled their half hung over most of the time the professors don't seem to enjoy lecturing that much none of the stuff learning interesting or relevant except for the few things that I'm already reading on my own and I'm buying a piece of paper that basically says, I'm no worse than all the rest of these people that are sitting in class with me I thought. Well, that's not a very strong signal like that piece of paper alone no one's. Going to say, wow, you have a BA from western Michigan University let me cut you a check. You know I'm GonNa have to do something beyond that to prove my worth and then I, started to realize well I've got to do something that's more valuable than the degree anyway if I do that doesn't degree the degree suddenly become irrelevant and there's an analogy here I have an associate's degree but once I got a bachelor's degree no one cares about the associate's degree or a high school diploma likewise once you. Have a year of interesting work experience or projects under your belt. One cares about your degree either and I had this realization and it really hit home and I kind of didn't know what to do with it for several years. I kind of thought about different ways to have alternatives to this. But took me about a decade really of of working in and around higher education with students, and then with entrepreneurs to let it sink in when I started doing fundraising for non often a meeting with all these. Successful business owners and founders, and they were all telling me that their big pain point is they can't find enough good people to hire and they also they don't care about degrees and pretty much everyone. If you went to their jobless things, they would say requirements it would say degree but it wasn't actually true. It was like, yeah. We're sorting through a bunch of information and typically people with a degree are on average better than those without. But that correlation it's not quotation and we don't like if you can. Prove something better. It doesn't really matter. We just want good people. So I started talking to him and realizing, and there's all these students that have degrees in debt and they said it can't find jobs are getting jobs at restaurants that they could gotten degree in the first place and they have no idea how to go create the value for someone and sell themselves to a business and an open up opportunities, and meanwhile the Internet is just blowing up everything making it easier than ever to start a business. To freelance to demonstrate your skills to accompany, and so we created practice to provide really a better way. It's a one year program six month professional boot camp that teaches you how to market yourself how to not only build skills but catalogue and demonstrate your skills through projects that you can tangibly share creating a digital footprint so that when people google you, they see a wow, this person built this marketing campaign and they did this and they've got this skill and here's something they designed and teaching you how to. Do value propositions to companies to sell yourself to say, Hey, I built this for you. I would like to work for you. Let me work for free for a while. Let me show you this and open up opportunities in the second six months. We actually place you in an apprenticeship at a startup into paid apprenticeships. Or you're doing real work in the real world and getting your foot in the door at sort of your first step in at the end of the program ninety, six percent of our graduates get a time job and very few of them have college degrees. So and most of the jobs are getting our our jobs that you know supposedly require degrees but they're figuring out how to build something better than degree hunting jump in and actually demonstrate their skill you know sell themselves. That are relevant in the marketplace instead of hoping that a resume or degree does the work for them. How would you say the real skills practice brings out in graduates from the program That's a great question. So we we focus primarily on sort of non technical talent. So that is you know if someone's really dead set on engineering or computer programming and sort of those hard skills. Weaken. We occasionally work with people that we can help them sort of beef up their soft skills and give them some broader experiences but we tend to focus on people who are kind of like me like jack-of-all-trades sort of generalist usually people, skills, types soft skills. Communication skills maybe interest in sales or marketing or of operations logistics, stuff behind the scenes and the main things that we help them with I think is I realizing that sales is everything and you have to understand sales including selling yourself dulling? Your. Experience really how to how to own your own brand to think of yourself as your company and I. Don't mean that like a cheesy way like I know there's a lot of you know sort of self promoters that have Plaka cheesy brandon doesn't have to be like that. It's really just a way of senior reputation what what is it that people find and see and think about you win encounter you in a professional context or don't they think of you at all which could be a problem. And then you're you're sort of communication skills. How to master email, which is actually really hard for a lot of young people but incredibly important how to get things done consistent basis turning creativity into discipline not something you wait for in hope that it comes but actually taking charge of it really learning to build your own structure to set your own goals and go after them instead of like following somebody's preset path and hoping that it works out. And then know the experience at the business partners can be wide ranging, but it's it's very tangible things like you'll learn how to. You know go through a a sales funnel, do cold emails and talk to potential clients and get them scheduled on demo calls and get them to to purchase the product for the company you're working for or to you know, do you know financial projections or to do to build the lead capture on a website to get more people to opt into you know an email list or something like that whatever whatever the companies are are hiring for in those apprentice ships and we have a pretty a pretty wide range, but it's our graduates have been. Very successful and the biggest thing I think is that they it helps de school their minds and help them realize that they're in the driver's seat and they can create opportunity for themselves and that mindset that's the hardest part of the program. It takes a lot of work to sort of breakdown that sort of telling me what to do and how I get an a mindset. But once you do. It's also. The, biggest reward. So do see naturally the somebody coming from an unschooled home background might excel more in something like practice. Absolutely we found that people. Yeah. There's sort of two categories people who are home schooled and especially the more independent. That is the more like unsettling at is do very well and have less difficulty transitioning into the program and another group of people that does really well those who have parents or relatives who are small business owners and they've kind of been around entrepreneurs before and they kind of understand the need to create value rather than just you know please customers rather than just chasing credentials. So yeah, that's definitely helps. For for people entering the breakfast program Yes so many success stories from the employers and graduates alike Ya. As, much as we can grow we. WanNa grow. We. We feel like there are so many people for whom. College is really a waste of time and the ability to jump into something sooner is there but they need a little help fanning that entrepreneurial spirit into flame and kind of being shown the ropes, getting some coaching getting some a little bit of structure to help get them going on building their own projects in opening up opportunities and connecting them. To our business partners is great network that we have. We can SORTA vouch for them and say, Hey, let this person apprentice improved themselves. So the opportunity is huge and I, think more and more young people are awaking to this are waking up to this facts. So we our plan is to grow as much as we can possibly grow. That's fantastic. Such. positivity. Thank you so much for joining us today. We just generally ask our guest to give any words voice to two parents may be unhappy with their current children's education that public school system or whatever it might be. They're looking for alternative you. There's a good place to start or how they go about the idea of taking a off public schooling. Yeah I would say break it down into a smaller smaller decision. You know don't don't look at it as once and for all the question of my child's education, which sort of implies like their success in life as a whole it down and say what if for the next year? For, the next year, let the kids come out of school and let them do a much more self guided. You know experience. Let's let him on school for a year and let's see what happens and you'll be amazed. They're not going to get really far behind or have any major problems they end up going back to school. It's actually not that hard to get caught up to speed. But I would say, take a year tell that to people were interested in practice and they're not sure maybe they want to go to college take one year and give it a shot and let yourself experience something different and see if it fits in. I'd be shocked if it didn't but but I think breaking it down. And I would also say free to learn by Peter. Gray is a really great book to help you kind of to alleviate some of the worries and fears about unsettling thus. Great. Well, thank you so much Isaac I'm is there any way people can gain touch of you if they'd like to maybe find out more about practice or contact you directly you bet I'm GonNa give you the practice website and I'll give you my personal website as well. So the practice website if you're interested in learning more about this apprenticeship program go check out discover practice, dot com you can. Download our program guide. You can browse around and see what we've got there So discover practice dot com, and if you WANNA see I've got my books, my podcast and blog regularly over at is it morehouse dot com you can learn more about me and what I'm up to their yeah like in definitely vouchers a great place to go beyond teens and inspired. So thanks once again Isaac and maybe we speak again in the next few months practice is progressing and hopefully speak to some of your success stories as well would love to Graham. I hope you've got as much out that talk as I did an excellent introduction to where we are now and where we could be. Please check your inbox will be back in touch very shortly for much more inspiration few to start your journey into home schooling child led learning and liberty. If you have any families looking for alternatives to school, please give them our information homeschooling and liberty dot com and they are more than welcome to join us on this journey. We'll see you real soon. Cheers. Beckoning now. Calling us with as you saw. GotTa. As to say. God You law. Got Up surface every time. She will catch you and you saw. Self within. Love. You. GotTa take the power. Ask yourself this question. What is so amazing and one got a government run schools that he would send your children. To be taught by essential strangers a curriculum over which you have no authority or control. How would you like to be a part of your children's learning? You were part of your children's learning is colors how she ties her shoes what is a butterfly? Why Mommy loves her? Why would you not want to continue to be a part of that? Book and what you've been told for so long that you'd have to say, well, maybe maybe not right and maybe your instincts are right unlearn those things. This. Is a about human rights and endowing children with dignity and agency and autonomy. And then guess what as a side benefit it works.

Isaac Morehouse Sudbury Valley School Sudbury school basketball John Taylor Gatto Sudbury school a Montessori Sc Graham Roy Peter Graves John holts Michigan Lagos closed head injury CEO Charleston western Michigan University accountant
Joe Gehrke, President, Getting Engaged in Kesslers Diamonds Culture  Episode 91

How'd It Happen Podcast

1:05:40 hr | 1 year ago

Joe Gehrke, President, Getting Engaged in Kesslers Diamonds Culture Episode 91

"Welcome to episode ninety one of the podcast hosted by Mike Mallet test stuff and this episode. Mike Welcomes Joe. Gerke easy the President of Kesslersdiamonds Center Inc a prestigious diamond retailer with seven locations throughout Wisconsin and Michigan. Joe began his career banking with comerica after graduating from western Michigan University later. He was recruited to Milwaukee by Associated Bank where he spent more than sixteen years and became a group senior vice. President associated. Bank had been the banker for Kessler's founder. Richard Kessler when Richard began to think about his company succession plan. He believed that. Joe Whom Richard considered to be a trusted adviser was uniquely qualified to take on the president role in July. Two thousand seventeen. Joe Accepted the position. I'm Joe Donna Cheeks. Podcast producer and blog collaborator. Mike and Joe cover a ton of great stuff in this episode including how his knack for connecting with people became a huge strategic advantage for him. When offering a guarantee is such a powerful way to make the buying process. Easy FOR THE CLIENT. How choosing not to follow his colleagues to a new bank was one of the best moves he's ever made while you're never one hundred percent ready for a new opportunity and why that's okay. And how he learned after becoming kesslers president that he needed to slow down before he could speed up. I think too often people wait for the opportunity and then said are going to be a leader. Now think everyone in an organization has chance to be a leader regardless of where they said. The organizational chart leadership is about influencing people. You don't need people to report you to do that. Life teaches us through experience failure. And so I think it's okay that you don't have ten twenty thirty percent figured out you're gonNA try your best to figure it out and rely on some of your core competencies and you're GonNa make some mistakes and it's not going to be a straight line but that's part of what makes you a better leader of contributor on the other side of it and so. I think I think waiting for a hundred percent. Just not practical. I think you're better off jumping when you feel like you're seventy percent. They're going to rely on your core skills to kind of get you the way. And you'RE GONNA make some mistakes and learn along the way to this episode is brought to you by hello water. Hello Water is fiber and fuse with Zero Sugar. Five grams of fiber with five inspiring flavors. A fun and fresh delivery system to help curb appetite and promote GUT HEALTH SMILE LAUGH. Live love and dance your way to a healthy lifestyle visit. Hello Water Dot Com to find a retailer near you. Hello Water Inspire Health and now. Here's Joe Gerski everybody. Welcome back to the show As you heard in the introduction my guest. Today's to Kirke Joe. I have known each other for probably five years now and I met Joe originally through wipe Yo when he was at Associated Bank and Associate Bank was sponsor. Why of why Peo- events and Joe? I think I met you. We were out that Place in Waukesha County. I can't remember ever seven seven something or other outdoors. Yeah Yeah Yeah. So we. We met there for the first time and started chatting and then Yes sort of our lives went on and and Joe Left the bank and as you know he's now President Kesslers and I've been attempting to hunt him down for a long time and I wish he's busy and I was actually really shocked recently when I got the note that we had it scheduled so I'm really happy to have you here today. Welcome thanks for having me. It's it's cool to reconnect. And obviously you know as you mentioned kind of initially connecting and then seeing each other in different capacities whether it's a private equity event or it's just passing in the business community so I start every podcast the same way and it's with a simple question. How did happen for you? Joe It's kind of interesting story because You know as as a banker involved in the kesslersdiamonds relationship I had a team of folks who were on the account in. I was helping them when it came to bigger projects etc and in Kessler's Pacific situation in Richard was a guest of ours today an event that we had at Miller Park and we talked about you know different kind of transition opportunities for business owners was generational. We had kind of a father son. Transfer we had Richard upstages transition to an employee owned or e SAP. And at that moment you know because Richard was very impromptu announced to the crowd of people we had a couple of different disciplines up on stage but he was one of our four speakers. Richard said. You know I'm looking for my successor. If you guys know anybody to the whole crowd you know I'm all ears and just tossed it right out right out there and you know. I don't know that we at the bank were that tuned into how quick looking for a successor ship. But you know Egypt. Companies are always Kind of conscientious. Not Probably maybe even a little bit more so than probably businesses because their goal is to be stop in perpetuity right and so he throws out there and I was doing my job as a as a good part of the banking team and recommending names. You know in my network of people that I thought were good candidates for him to consider for the role in and people that I knew from retail backgrounds etcetera. And so you know I'll never forget. We were sitting at event. He was a guest of mine at table and I said Hey. How's the search going on? He said to me. We'll what about you and I said. What do you mean what about me? I'm trying to help you find a successor he says. I think you'd be perfect for you know outcome. You're not throwing your hat in the ring. I answer that question at that time similarly like I answered any question for another bank. Who is interested in me engaging in a conversation I said hey appreciate it I'm humbled But you know I'm really good spot here. You have a big time. Job Added Market. And so you know between the course of that kind of him throwing it out there. A little bit randomly from my perspective but probably not randomly from his probably for the better part twelve months. I kept you know politely declining. And you know he would ask me and then one of our board members as Mike Peppy from right hard Mike would ask me and I think they had the ham egg gone and I came to the conclusion long story short after about twelve months of you know politely. Saying thank you to say you know what these opportunities don't present themselves to bankers every day. I ought to take a really longer thoughtful. Approach to the opportunity versus dismissing it. Like I was another bank job and as a point in my life in my career that I was really comfortable with the future. I had an associated because they've been very good to me but I just I just felt like these opportunities aren't GonNa come across my desk every day and we had a we had dinner Between Christmas and new years my wife was traveling with some of her sisters for vacation and it was the first time that I kind of centre-right why me and the rest is history. We kind of went back and forth for the better part of four or five months and we have annual shareholder meeting in May and I was announced in May of seventeen as the as the new president and it was a surprise to the entire employee. Group I did interview with probably a dozen different employees through the process and their board. But in you know I had to give. I wanted to give the bank plenty of time to work on the transition and so I didn't start you know probably I didn't start with cancers until right after the fourth of July so we about to transition between the bank and and joining kesslers but that's kind of how it happened. So what was the answer to the why me question you know? I think it was. I think it was a couple of different things. Mike I think Richard is very very good about thinking about the business differently. And and you know not not dissimilar from many of the roles that we look at at the company were probably hiring for culture cultural fit first and then you know. Knowledge of the industry second or third And I think that was probably the biggest thing that stood out to Richard was I. I would fit the culture. It's a very unique caring loving culture servant culture And I think that was probably the biggest part of it and I think you know he saw my financial background and said you know as we think about growth in opening new stores. Having someone who understands the financial you know past the growth is important and so I think it was probably those factors way more than I knew. Diamonds as a as a man who's been happily married for twenty years. I had to think about diamonds. Twenty four hundred experience your whole life and I got real real sharp on the knowledge back then and then I kind of forgot it. All so clearly wasn't the diamond experience it wasn't I wasn't in the retail part of the bank. I was always in the commercial part of the bank. And so I think it was cultural fit and You know the opportunity to help scale the business and So has your Gore. I I guess where I WANNA go. I is to make the decision. Help us understand what you went through to make that kind of a decision because so you know there's one that's one thing to be young and start a business and you had you know you could like I did could very well make the case that I had nothing to lose It's quite another thing to be. You know have a big time job in industry for seventeen years or something like that future is pu notes. Could you maybe end up to be seal at associated who knows where that goes all that sort of to look at and you decide not only to listen to this opportunity after a while and then ultimately take it in a different industry as a private company? East opt owned company. Which is we'll talk about some of the some of that all those things. What how did you make your way to a decision like that because I imagine the easiest decision all of that is to be like past thanks? Thanks where I'm at that's given for. You know the better parts months you know. I didn't want to look back and regret not taking a chance because clearly it was it was a risk to kind of leave a very comfortable happy situation but I just I didn't WanNa look back at life and man. I had this really cool opportunity that I chickened out on it and I played it safe because as bankers. That's kind of our sometimes in our DNA to play it safe and I didn't want to do that and the other thing. That was really attractive. Is You know each stop ownership for someone that didn't have to sort of be write a check to buy into the business you know. I looked at it as an opportunity create value for myself and one hundred forty people and while you know I had equity interest at the Bank of as a part of a publicly traded company. Just wasn't the same you know I didn't feel like I could truly moved. Pnl or the share price in this role. I absolutely feel I can move the share price and so there was just a component of the the risk-taking I was I was ready for something. Just out there out out outside the box and you know what if it didn't work out for one reason or another. I felt like I could enter back in the banking. Probably not at the same level because those those jobs aren't plentiful but I felt like even if it didn't work out for whatever reason I'd get back in the banking and be a better banker because of it because I've experienced life on what I like to call the other side of the desk. One thing from a banker to go give advice and walk away and hope you figure that out on the other side of the Dash GonNa make that call now so I think it's those things that kind of really pushed me to kind of take a chance. Okay and for the people who are listening. That don't know kesslers is don't know who. Richard Kessler is. Can you just give? Sort of a an overview joe of the iconic nece of what we're talking about. Yeah absolutely. I mean so kesslers Richard bought a business back in one thousand nine. Eighty called CR gems it was a small nondescript Jury operation in a Strip Mall in Miami falls and as Richard would tell the story of business struggled for probably the better part of ten or fifteen years as a single store location And at that point Richard you went to go see Tony. Robbins talks about a vividly and changed his mind. Set about what what this business needed to be successful in so mid nineties we take it from a single store operation to. We added a second store. We start to skinny back. Our product selection most people in our industry like to supply. Diamonds supply gemstones. They like to supply watches. Sometimes some gift where okay and and the model that Richard came to run A. We're GONNA really specialize in diamonds. We think that's the place that expertise matters and the other business lines can drive some traffic to the store in maybe extending a relationship or start a relationship but it's hard to be really good at those other other different crafts. And so you know today. Is You fast forward You know we have seven locations. Diamond Retail Big Emphasis on bridal. I call the engagement ring. Are Kind of our Super Bowl? Represents over eighty percent of our businesses. Something around that event for people And so we have four stores here in Southeast Wisconsin. We have one store in Madison. We have one in up in Appleton and then we open one in grand rapids Michigan in two thousand. Fifteen and you know. Historically the business was built on a really strong presence on the radio. You couldn't get away from our radio commercials and so We've had the same marketing agency. Out of Austin Texas for the last twenty five or thirty years. You Know Helping. Us write the scripts and being very consistent over the course of time you know besides the proudly differentiation warranty that we offer our clients a second and nine and a lot of people try to duplicate our warranty but in honesty and honest in all honesty. They're not duplicating. They're probably creating some some conditions around it but we replace. Beat if you buy your piece from us weren't take care of it. We're GONNA take care for the lifetime you'll have to come and get it inspected you want it to get it checked out. And that's a real differentiator for a lot of our clients. They have that peace of mind. This is a big investment for people and so the fact that they can come back to a store and if if a diamond falls out if a prong it's benefit needs to get re size it needs to get into something it's on us and it's it's part of our promise to our customers that we're gonNA take care of them and so you know through the course of the last four years. I think we've done a great job of trying to differentiate ourselves in a fairly commodities business with the people that we have in our stores with some of the nuances of our warranty and focus on bridal And it's been A. It's been a really successful company. That was the other part that attracted me is. This wasn't coming to a place to try to fix something. This was coming to a place to try to take what been established and develop and take it to another level. Yeah through growth. Okay and I want to dig into this a little bit because I'm sort of I. I'm all over from a positioning standpoint. And you seem to have it done down really well. I think people will benefit from this. So the this you mentioned the guarantee or the warranty so I've always looked at guarantees and warranties as being the that's like your Your ability to get rid of all the things that people thinking about that could go wrong with making a purchase Eliminating all of that. So that the purchases without fear right and you've said I I WANNA see if you agree with that and how you actually really apply that psychology in the way that you and I don't mean in a manipulative way but how you apply that psychology and how you mentioned it's other people try it but it's not the same and I'm wondering what what's not same jer. I would say In terms of the warranty that I think were it starts and stems from and why we are that comfortable taking away potential friction for someone to make a decision to to buy you know a piece of jewelry from US. And you know you talk about fear or concern. I mean let's face it. You know people when they're coming to buy an engagement ring for the first time that's a scary thing and so you don't WanNa have to worry about harming and care for this in the future And saying is it all starts with our product selection. So if we buy you know you can look at to identical rings in in the in your I. In my previous coming here they. They're the same piece of jewelry when in fact they're not I mean. Some pieces are built better than others in terms of their their structure in terms of their Some some can be hollowed out or thin now to kind of lesson the metal but on the surface is you look at it face up. They look the same in so frost for warranty it starts with making sure we buy very high quality piece of jewelry. That's GONNA stand the test time. Our goal is not to replace people's jury our goals for those that to last forever for them. Everyone wears their jewelry a little differently. Some some don't wear that often somewhere it all the time. My mom is a perfect example. She'd be in the garden. You know she'll be in making you know a dinner with the ring on you know. Beating an obsolete works at hard working hard and and people wear their pieces differently. And so Yeah that that. That warranty stemmed from making great products lashing selection whether it's the jewelry or the diamonds themselves And then extends to a really scary moment for folks Who this'll take one less thing for them to kind of worry about So that that was the warranty. I'm dropping I'm blanking. On what the second part of your question is probably connected to what you just said there with the selection. I was wondering about how you said. Other people are padded irs. Offer that but it's not the same and that's where I was some of it. Some of it's the product selection But I think the bigger part is most people will want you to come back and get it inspected visually every so often. Every six months they wanna get is on the peace because they want to fix something before it becomes worse You know one of the big differentiator is that we have is the center stone. Which is were most of the value is for engagement rings If you read our warranty which is you know it was. It was intentionally not a SM- fine print warranty it's in a granite piece in every one of our stores and it's basically if you bought it that Casio's guaranteed it's just that simple Even if he loses the center stone we're GONNA cover it for you and there's no other documentation assign there's no other question marks. Most people's warranties aren't limited to those fifteen or twenty words there maybe those fifteen or twenty words with about fifty or sixty words underneath understand. That's where I think. People tried to presented as the same guy for the company. We're kind of self insuring that risk. I mean we're we're we're transferring that risk from you the consumer to us the company and we're comfortable that because we're going to buy a good piece of jewelry and we're going to inspect him to make sure they can last And it's it's just a transfer of risk from one of the other and we self-insurance most aren't willing to take on that risk. And I think I think it stems from Richard. Thinking about the confidence in ourselves and we need to stand behind our product more than a vendor or some other third party so it stops starts and stops with US okay. That's interesting because you're basically giving the customer the ability to abuse you but not but not people couldn't you're saying you're saying hey you not only. Are we going to guarantee? But we're gonNA trust you right. That's a big part of actually. It's a it's a really important word in our business if you think about it You know in at the core of Kessler's trust and relationship Are Paramount. You know we just did an exercise to kind of as leadership team to talk about the things that make us you know. Give us a right to go compete and win and stay. Stay successful in business. And one of the prongs we call them our four prongs One is loving relationships that we establish with our clients with each other with our vendors and the Shank of the ring or the circle of the ring. It's called the circle of trust. And you have to have that trust built with all the different constituents in order to be successful in our business and there are plenty of stories unfortunately out there where people have felt like they. They got misinformed or misled. And we have to be very conscientious. That that's just not how we're going to do it. Was IT As as wanted to get back to the Y. P. L. Experience. Was there anything about you attending and meeting. Wipe ers that that contributed to this. You're thinking when it came to this decision as well just curious. Yeah I've always admired People that have run businesses. I would have said to you. You know maybe there's a chance down the road. I would look to buy a small business and have a chance to to lead an in. Run that But I I always enjoy being around People that are smart and and have shown a success and I'm a big believer of surrounding myself with with really talented people and view. That experience with why Peo- is kind of akin to that you know growing up I always tell the story where folks. I'm an offensive Lineman by background. You know I didn't. I wasn't the person you know in the stat page and so I was always wired to kind of rely on those around me for success and I view that you can always learn from people in wipe your was a great place to learn from people and understand kind of what makes her different business. Different how they define success and one of the things. You'll find you probably see a Mike within investing. I mean I think a lot. There's a lot of commonality across businesses. I don't care what industry in if you're an environmental business or if you're selling diamonds you know. There's a lot of core competencies that apply across the spectrum. What's the value proposition? How do we motivate our people to serve the client? How do we differentiate? How do we service people those things apply across multitudes of business yeah the White Peo- experience was helpful for me to live? Continue to get a taste of what it was like to be on the other side of the desk. Okay and you brought up the The Kid Erkki there so So let's let's spend some time there. Sure first of all. I thought I thought that lime were worthy leaders like you fall. You protect the quarterback as a running back. I follow the line and not the other way around. Wh- what let I guess what? What was it like growing up? You and then what led you to. I guess this banking career in the in the first place. Is that your aspiration from a young age or your parents driving you that way or what what was happening here. I grew up in a small town in the Upper Peninsula Michigan. It's the southernmost tip of the UPS menominee Michigan and right across the border Marinette Wisconsin about an hour. North Green Bay Great upbringing older brother older sister. Younger sister Dad Ran the YMCA in one of his last since he was executive director of the YMCA and my mom had had a business. It was for all intents and purposes was a manpower franchise that when I was growing up was inside of her house. And so you know. It was a great place for people to find temporary labor and things of that nature What what got me. Alta banking is when I graduated from an I was asked to be a preferred walk on at Western Michigan University to play football and my brother was down in Kalamazoo area which is were Western is and I had a good business school. And so here's an opportunity to play. You know a fairly high level Football go to good business school. My brother was close by so I had family. And and so I ended up making the leap to Western Stop playing football after a couple years. That's a whole nother podcast. And then Really focused on finance and accounting in school. I had a really good experience in high school with it's called. Bpa business professionals. America at the time which was basically competitive thing for business. Students to kind of go compete Statewide and nationally in different competitive sets around a business. And so that got my curiosity to business and then you know continued it with a finance degree at Western. And be honest with you when you. I didn't have enough accounting courses. Go that route. And so if you're a Finance Undergrad. There's banking insurance and maybe investments are the three primary places you're GonNa go with the exception of private industry so I just back. In those days. We interviewed on campus with those employers. Who came through and I got a job with Comerica Bank. Which was at the time headquartered in Detroit? They had an office in Kalamazoo that they wanted me to be kind of an anti and credit analyst underwriter and I did that for about Fourteen or fifteen months and then I got my first banking job where I flip from kind of behind the scenes number crunching understand the loans to more of a sales role in than just kind of progress from there and what was that analyst process like was it. Did you like it. Was it necessary? What was well done? Yeah at the time and the industry has changed a lot. It was you know there was a was known for a very formal training program and you know for most people in the commercial banking space. Having an understanding of what makes a good loan and bad loan is probably a good place to start before you go. Try to go sell alone in. So it's it's a normal place that most people begin their career the thing about America. It wasn't a place that I could stay forever. The the path always was get the analysis down. Be Very good at you. Know helping support a banker and then you need. You need to enter this role to sales professional and sell sell loans and sell relationships and so As a great place to start but it was never going to be permanent. The industry's changing a little bit. Since then I think people can enter in in stay in that role if they don't have the desired You know maybe as much of an extrovert are out there connecting with people they just want to stay scenes but back then that was that was kind of the path. I see so okay. I thought you couldn't stay in the bank at all but you mean couldn't analysts was a pit stop that that was on the way to being Generating revenue exactly so when you Let's say outside of football which he did for a couple years you say. That's another podcast. I won't get into that more accept. What besides football. What you're there you came for that reason and you stayed even if even after you stop playing so there had to be something maybe it was just the education or maybe it was other things that you were involved in doing that You know that that influence your decision to stay. Yeah I think one of the benefits of any sport in whether it's high school or college I instantly had one hundred friends on campus. Right in and those friends friends didn't didn't go away when I stopped playing football at western end. You know having my brother they're Kalamazoo poor. Jerry is a really great area. I always tell people if it was closer to Matt menominee beef. You know we got back closer to minute. Menominee as we started about started thinking about our family in raising a family If it was closer we were probably stayed put because I we really enjoyed it. It was just a great quality life. obviously big big university in in the town but lots of things around the edges to kind of keep things interesting so it was it. Was You know my decision to stop playing football coincided with me to come to the reality of? I'm not gonNA play on Sunday. I want to get my degree and I want to start. You know entering the real world so I wasn't in mindset to kind of switch gears and go somewhere else and it was a good place for me to finish up okay and the transition from analysts to sales at COMERICA. Was that something. You're looking forward to joe or were you know you you know you're fairly extroverted guy now appear to be. I don't know if that was always you? So how do in not that you know? There's so that stereotype that only extroverted. People can be good salespeople which is crazy but they tend to be at least be willing to give it a go easier than perhaps someone like me for example. So how are you feeling about it? I think at the time. I don't know that I saw myself as a sales person. But you know with anything as you get more confident in the underlying craft so to speak You know it's it's less about selling. It's more about building relationships and always had a knack for connecting with lots of different people growing up. I was at my my. My friends used to make fun of me. I was the guy who go back to the barn Thanksgiving weekend. Instead of just hanging with kind of my core group of friends. I would spend time connecting with other from people from all different walks of life. You know that not. All of them went on to college and do other things. I just have a have a tendency to want to kind of understand and learn about a lot of different people and so the ones stranger. No Not Really. I view I one of things I've done it at Castro's which is Kinda cool in this is another thing that the company helps us in terms of just finding yourself what what's important to you. One of our exercise. We asked to do a personal missing mission statement partly because at the core of our culture is as Stephen Covey's seven habits of highly effective people. And you've got to kind of know where you're going as part of that Part of that understanding or learning and so anyway developing the personal mission statement car with the end in my and begin with that in mind. Exactly my mission statement kind of speaks to a little bit of kind of my thought process in life and that is you know. Building respectful relationships through hard work and humility and building is intentionally kind of moving word. Because I don't think you're ever built in terms of their relationships and in by virtue that relationships in there I value all the people I interact with. I'd like to find the good in people and I always say I want to leave. Leave this planet with more friends than enemies when it's all said and done so to be easy. Yeah Okay so from America you move to Associated Yup and it looked sounded to me like you've moved back to Marinette or moved to Milwaukee. Okay Okay so you started what what made you want to make that move and then can you just walk us through your history there so so we can understand How you moved up your and what's your feeling while you're moving up in those kinds of things so the big driver to get back closer to home in. Marinette menominee was again. We're thinking about starting our own family and so we wanted to have the kids be closer to their grandparents and rather relatives that still spent time up nominee. So that was the big. Push to get back You know when I came into associated I I started as a assistant Vice President. You know we love to throw titles in the banking industry. I still use the Ron Pronounce. Time-to-time but over the I two plus years there. I was just kinda learning the market learning the bank. I I'll never forget this. I you know I was contacted by a recruiter and every good recruiter. You know who gets paid on contingency Is Not only gonNA air to the to the bank. That is has the opening. They're also gonNA take me to see other organizations who may be a need for bankers and so at that point in time is back in two thousand interview with associated. I are bank one in them and I think associated is probably eater night billion at the time smallest of the three four rather and You know one of my big concerns at the time was well. When are they going to get bought? I mean there was always kind of the drumbeat with associate is one of the bought in the irony. Is You know those other organizations brands don't exist today. They've been merged in with other companies over the course of time and and so you know love the fit of associated love the people aspect of I felt like I could I could do while. They're in about two and a half years in in the organization and this is one of the big changing points in my career. You know I was a salesperson and it was making progression but at one point the group that I was in the entirety of the group left the bank with the exception of myself. One of one other person and plan thing. Yeah they they went to go. Start another bank in town. I was afforded the opportunity to join them and so I can remember this like it was yesterday. I was sitting in talking to my dad about this opportunity. Leeann making axe and this was an opportunity. You know fifty percent more than accident so it was a big financial but it was a lot of risk with this sort of in. I wasn't sure a still trying to figure out how to sell associated bank alone. You know in another organization that was somewhat new to town and so you know on the best career moves. I'm I made was not making a move and not chasing a dollar to go. You know make more money. Start this thing up. That was risky at the time. But I was. I just felt good about the organization. I felt good about the leadership that I was working for. And you know big catapulted. My career was by default right. There's no one left. They have to rely on me more. I think they feel. Did you feel that's interesting because you felt these ties to associated you probably also fell ties? These people that you worked with. So were you conflicted. During this period of time big time it was a tough decision. Because here's people that were part of my life kind of social family. My closest family And I just I just felt like I. It's one of those things. It's kind of a gut thing. It's an instinct thing you know. I didn't let the financial piece of this take my mind over because as a young person who is just starting out in their family that can be a big consideration making the mortgage payment and daycare and everything else that goes with it. You know I just felt like over time. I just had a better better path to success staying with us. Oh she didn't. It proved to be again one of the best moves. I never made which has taken the your transition to another bank. And it's common in the Banking Industry for folks to kind of change a uniform and I just again I. I was if I had been in the market longer. Maybe out of thought about it differently. I was to new I. I had a lot of confidence in the leadership team in the commercial banking leadership team and and they they put a heart press on me to stick around because I think they felt like ahead. The right material for them Long-term again by default. And there's no one left. I'm all of some leading this one person. And then we're going to rebuild the team and take it from there and that was. That was a really important part of my girl that at the bank. Okay sure because if if they hadn't left your career trajectory may have been slower very differ. You may have had to lead laugh. They're somewhere else. It's one of the reasons why I stayed so loyal to associate over the years was I believe they gave me an opportunity that I wouldn't have gotten in other places Because of the situation and so I felt like I owed it to the bank to even as as you would get routinely recruited for other opportunities to stay with them and continue to help you know. Be a brand ambassador and grow the organization it was they. Were good to me at a time where you know it was probably maybe even safer to go in a different direction because I was somewhat unproven right. When you get the when you get some of those roles you may have sixty or seventy percent of it figured you know feel pretty confident and you gotta go figure out the other thirty forty percent. That was totally me. I wasn't ready for leading people. I was just trying to figure out how to sell alone so so. How'd it work out for those folks that went to the other opportunity to work out? Okay you know unfortunately It was it was timing. Probably wasn't the best because as a recall oh eight oh nine was a tough time in the banking business and so this was probably three I think is when that transition opportunity presented itself all three or four. Maybe it was a little bit longer than than when I was there but I think they had a really good run for three plus years and unfortunately that bank ran into financial difficulties. Not so much with what was happening in Milwaukee just what was happening at the bank and got absorbed and you know part of the upside of that move was gonna be the stock and this of the stock and you know that ended up not being an opportunity for folks and so yeah it was again. It was a great movement for me not to make time so that was a great thing he said there about being maybe only sixty or seventy percent ready to take on a new opportunity and you specifically mentioned leading people so. I thought I'd ask you what's the so for someone. That's that's sort of in those camps where I have to be a hundred percent sure or I have to be one hundred percent ready in order for me to stick my neck out and try for this other position. You know. What's your what's your advice to somebody like that. And then I guess secondly is how did you learn to lead people from a from a from a from a spot where you didn't have that responsibility? Maybe you're only responsible for yourself and ultimately ended up leading a big team. Not just there but in your in your careers mile. Now right you know I think if you look at the second part of that Mike I think you know. I think it's important that folks who desire I always desired to be leadership. I thought I could influence lead lead people but I I think I was starting to show signs of that before opportunities presented themselves. I think too often people wait for the opportunity. And that's our mobile leader. Now they get one in. An organization has a chance to be a leader regardless of where they sit in the organizational chart. Sometimes people don't see it that way. 'cause they're waiting for that box title to be a leader not at all. We can all lead in leading lead leaderships about influencing people. Don't need people to report for report you to do that. But to your first part I think he I don't think you'll ever be a hundred percent ready for a opportunity that presents itself. I think that's kind of fool's gold and I think you know life. Life teaches us through experience and failure. And so I think it's okay that you don't have ten twenty thirty percent of it figured out your try your best to figure it out and rely on some of your core competencies and you're GonNa make some mistakes and it's not going to be a straight line but that's part of what makes you a better leader contributor on the other side of it and so I think I think waiting for a hundred percent. Just not practical. I think you're better off jumping when you feel like you're seventy percent there and you're gonNA rely on your core skills to of get you the way and you're GonNa make mistakes and learn along the way. Do you think it's safer now to admit that you don't know that thirty or forty percent and and That would be as it probably always should be. That would be like okay. That's fine because we don't expect anybody to know that as opposed to maybe what it was like before where he kind of had maybe had maybe people wanted you to be at least tell say you're one hundred percent radio ninety percent ready or whatever or do you think it's kind of the same. I think I see your point. I think I think some of that's just the mindset of where you're at in in the continuum of your career so I could see it from both sides of it to be honest with you. I think over the course of time. We'll we'll get to where we need to on this journey For our careers. And so I I think it. It depends on the situation. I can see it from both sides of outcome. I know for me I now. It's probably you know position in life or whatever that I'm way more willing to admit I don't know the answer to or I don't know how to get to or whatever than I was before even if I felt the same ensure probably easier to admit it when you've when you progressed a little bit but some of it's in people's DNA to go back to building relationships through humility and hard hard work and humility. You gotta be wanting humble yourself. I don't have all the answers but yeah I'm smart enough to figure it out and work my way through it so when you when you made your decision to leave associated and I know you earlier told us sort of how you thought through that whole process and major decision when it came down to the actual execution of the leave. How did you feel then it was? I remember it. We Know Hen I. I don't know that I talked to really anybody on my team. Or the teams that I was responsible for about the opportunity during during the only person that probably knew was my executive assistant because I didn't keep things from her and she had total access to my calendar and schedule so I pulled her in just to let her know when I knew this was getting serious but you know we pulled people into a conference room and then we had people on the phone and I remember it being. I couldn't get through my my announcement I couldn't I couldn't I started to break down emotionally because I invest a lot with that team that that organization and so fortunately my boss at the time was there and help kind of carry the rest of the conversation the announcement then. I kind of pulled it together but it was a very very emotional day because you know and I still to this day have relationships with a lot of those folks. I cared deeply about their success. It was just the right time for me to try something different And you know it's hard to walk away from relationships you've had for the better part of seventeen years and people that you've hired into the organization that revolt relied on you through the years and in light of those people sometimes. We're good sometimes weren't so good in terms of where we were at in the cycle where we're at in our conversations but highly emotional day I was. I was kind of a train wreck. I think. A Lotta people underestimate what that's going to be like. I know I've done that for sure But I think also maybe it'd be interesting to see you also you know this sort of like You know people think like the person's just you know leave him for the you know there are banning is leaving us for the money. It's just a cold hard. You know whatever decision And they don't appreciate that it's God branching decision you know. It's like terrible terribly tough decision. Yeah you talk about the financial bit bit of it. This move for me wasn't about that it was about just this unique opportunity to influence lead other people. I had a couple people that kind of gave me that abandonment feel but because it was such most people leave. Leave the bank and go to another bank that was Kinda commonplace for for the industry. I think I got a little bit more Latitude with folks knowing. This was such a unique opportunity in some of people. Have over the course of time circle back and you know have expressed a little bit of jealousy around guy that what a cool opportunity that presented itself. I wish I had that same opportunity kind of thing so right but it was tough. It was a very tough decision. So you you make the move. That was two two and a half years ago. Give or take you had this ideal about what was going to be like to run a private business. You'd seen lots of private businesses and you talked about it. I knew I knew I knew I knew what the numbers look like. And you know you knew you knew what the businesses were in general and stuff and now. Here's here's an opportunity to run your own so you have this ideal of what it is you keep in there and is the ideal what you're on you you walk into you know. I think I would say you know you draw this picture in your mind and I've had. I've had this conversation with a lot of people who've got brought in from the outside the lead lead the business in some respects. It's it's probably easier to be inside the business to lead the business kind of promote through within in other respects in might be easier to come from the outside but here we had a company that had a really strong a well established culture and so I had to slow down kind of my mindset of the things I wanted to do you come in with the mindset. I see this opportunity. Here's a here's a good place we go and I didn't take the time to kind of enjoy appreciate and learn the culture of the company and so I think you know my ideal situation we're going to make all these kind of positive moves and continue to kind of because this is why I'm here is why here they brought me here. Let's go and you know the other thing that I probably didn't think about enough even in this kind of maybe comes as a surprise statement you know going through a transaction for a company as a leveraging event and so we had to make sure as much as we aspire to go grow the company with new locations which is a new greenfield locations which is not an inexpensive way to grow in our business. Read to make sure that we kind of solidified the foundation of the company. And so you know we had to kind of take our time deliver the business a little bit and now we're kind of in the mode of talking about new store location. But I wasn't thinking about that like let's go open a new store. That was kind of some of the talking points but we had to kind of take some of the leverage off the business but the biggest adjustment evening even though it's an e Sop employee stock ownership The owners still gets paid. Yes still have to borrow money to pay the owner. We owed him. We owed Richard for his other fifty one percent of the transaction that that transpired. The company sold forty nine percent back in twenty seven and the remaining fifty one percent was sold in February of seventeen tonight. Joined the business July of seventeen so you sell half you pay it all back then you borrow another half him back. Yeah and so. But the cultural the cultural impact of an outsider joining the organization again which is a well run organization strong culture. I probably didn't appreciate how much I need to kind of. Slow my roll to kind of figure out the business better from inside out perspective versus the outside in I was taking one. I was sitting on the outside. And so it you know and then you have you know with the leadership you inherited leadership team and then you have to build trust without leadership team in some of the pieces stick around and some of the pieces decide this not a good fit and we're kind of going through that process we've tweaked some things just organizationally so that we have people in my mind set up to be successful with what they're running for our company we've moved some people around and so we've been kind of getting the foundation of the organization from people perspective in place you know continuing to you. Cultivate new stores that we open back in fifteen which are part of our growth portfolio so to speak and just and just fine tuning the operation in in no giving me time to learn the business from the inside out. There's there's a lot of nuances in the company that I wasn't that familiar with you know just as you know banking role that I played for the company in as a banker. You know I tell people you know accounting and finance pretty well and that's where you spend most of your time in my role today. I mean there's so many other things I get involved in from product development to marketing strategies to lease negotiations real estate site selections. You know all these other things and so there are things there. I knew I had a lot to learn I just needed to probably slow myself down. You know in this process of entering into the company to appreciate what's been created and not going near making a bunch of changes. I mean you could. But YOU'RE GONNA YOU'RE GONNA probably you're gonNA probably destroy more the culture which is if it was if there was no culture or bad culture. That's probably not the end of the world around right. This was a good culture so he wanted to destroy good culture to get an in a different direction. I just decided that wasn't a good play having a strong foundational culture. I think it's important for the success of any business and we had that at Kesslers. And how did you become aware of that? You needed to slow down you know. I had Richard One time probably multiple times and then one of one of our leaders to pull me aside in one of the things that we did. This is probably. I used to have it up in my office. Just took it down the last right at the turn. The years I was clean at my office We had a leadership meeting with our store leaders in other department heads and we talked about. You know everything's changing. All the stuff is changing and so we asked the leadership team. We had one. You know this big post it note or whatever you call this stuff on the wall and you head what same? And what's different and so when we listen to the things that were in. The company thinks that haven't changed is a fairly short last and it wasn't that descriptive. It was seven or eight things but then when you listed the things that have changed from the leadership teams perspective. It was a laundry list of stuff and it was. It was very nuanced in terms of the detail that people saw change and it was at that moment. You know that I'm like okay. I gotTa get these folks to kind of get comfortable that this thing isn't this. Great Company is all of a sudden changing overnight to something. That's not so great and I. I had the visual in my office to just make sure that how people were seeing it through their lands with an excessive mono- change and again they got very descriptive on the change They didn't get very descriptive on what things have stayed the same so those stayed at kind of a macro level whereas the change objects were. I give you a really silly example. That was on there but it was true You Know I. I came out of a kind of a professional office environment. We used Microsoft outlook to schedule a lot of appointments and so we started using outlook. 'cause that was kind of my preferred choice to schedule stuff for meetings etc and that was a change and so that was the granularity of the communication me as you know. We're not using Microsoft outlet outlook to schedule meetings. Because that wasn't necessarily how he did it. In the past we would maybe do an email around or would you know make sure people knew who had a standing meeting just wanted my own calendar so. I didn't forget them. And that was that was the nuance all the value to you. But maybe you know so just a good example of how they saw change and I was like well. This is just communicate. It's not chain. But in their mind it was changing. So that's one of the big things that aren't you. GotTa slow this down. Okay yes that's that's really interesting. There there was never really keeping score on the change big time. Yeah very aware very aware. And how did you want? You are aware of it. How did you and you know I know people can talk to you and stuff but how did you sort of rally yourself and be like okay? Okay this this where I need to get everybody back to. Maybe before we can start moving ahead again. I don't want to put words in your mouth. Yes curious I think I think the biggest thing that I probably tried to accomplish was try to socialize things more often or frequently before we would make a decision and at the end of the day you know try to make it all of our idea versus my idea on things I think. That's you know because there were a lot of longtime veteran people at in the in that leadership table and I don't think they were opposed the you know the concepts of where we're going to be how we executed so to the extent we could slow down get by in make an idea versus Joe's idea. I think that was really helpful. The other thing that we went through you know during that same period of time is we hired. One of my first hires which was always. The plan was higher full-time. Cfo for the business. Historically we had a longtime bookkeeper in place who had announced that she was going to retire before I joined. The company gave the company a one year stretch. We had a kind of a part time. Cfo in their two or three days. A Week I knew from my prior life. He he told me. Listen Joe I can't give this business two or three days anymore. I mean I can go down to a half a day My other my other demands or greater so I knew at at coming into the business that we had to kind of solve for that role in the company and again when you bring in someone at at a CFO level when historically you had a part time person who wasn't really managing the business of the accounting world. They were just helping support it because it's hard to manage the accounts and things of that nature part time and hit a bookkeeper who did a great job for the company for thirty plus years. We kind of changed the dynamic of of the business fairly quickly between me as an outsider and the CFO has no Saturday. So you know if you think about the business we're in. It's heavily emotional based let's face it we we. We make a purchase of jewelry. Because we're trying to express our love our appreciation for someone who's important in our life that's at the end of the day. That's why we do it. So it's a very emotionally charged purchase. And I've said this many people might one of the big differences for me from banking to Kesslersdiamonds was and I always thought I had a fair amount of ECU as a banker. Banker aren't known for Req- I felt like I was pretty good. I came his Asian. I was like I'm I'm amateur compared to these folks because they they're adapt at kind of the emotional intelligence because they need to connect with that person who comes into the store and find out that person who's special in their life and that relationship and explore that to help them find something they're looking for. And so you know banking is lots of logical conversation numbers conversation whether it's internally or it's with the CFO's the presidents. I'm dealing with in this organization. I had to be more thoughtful about how we think about communication and You know it's still. It's still a process because I can get myself going sometimes on numbers and ratios and you know not that it's not important. It's just it's not the best way to kind of get things absorbed. You know with this company and I wouldn't change that for the world. That's the kind of person we want running a store for us. We want someone who has that connection emotionally to both their team in there and the people that you know. Give us a shot to do business with them. Yeah I'm imagining. I'm imagining you as a banker. You be like So so what's it GonNa make you feel like when we when we approve this law? You'd see we're in the business that you're in now that's always right. What's it GonNa feel like when you make this? Everybody that comes in is in some type of vulnerable state. Now they may be excited vulnerable. They might be financially vulnerable. They might be scared. They might be like this. Probably NOT GONNA work out. But I'm going through at any all of that and you're trying to like get them right understand where they're at and then take them into a future that makes them feel like a million bucks one. One of the things are folks are really good at and if I get a proud to read a lot of the Google reviews that we get from clients who visit our stores. Is they come in with this vulnerability with fear and we put them in these. We don't pressure them into making decision. Our goal is to educate you on the decision and we think over the course of time. We're GONNA win more than we lose if we just educate you and show you options available in honor how much you WanNa spend on this particular transaction But that lack of pressure and that just really getting the relationship built and not about selling a piece of jewelry is another thing that our folks extremely. Yeah I wanted to Get back to what you were saying about change too because you were talking about the lessons you learn from it maybe having to slow down and stuff but there's there's also this whole other dynamic which is In a founder lead business. At least it's been my experience and that this may not be the Kessler experience but it's been my experience in founder led business people come into founder lead business and they're they're used to ping pong off of what the founder wants founder on since founder ones. I've found one says okay. We're going to do that when someone comes in and replaces the founder. It's it's it's always a a mountain because the the whole sort of breath of the company was based off of what the founder wanted and way the founder was and now doesn't matter who you are right you're not that and so anything you WanNa do that. They perceived to be different or nothing. You do will be considered to be the same as the founder would do so. It's a very. It's a very tall tall thing and in particular the first time as a leader the new leader is replacing the founder. That's a hard time for everybody because they're just you know the just it's it's I don't know what it's like losing losing a lot. Yup and they have to. Everybody has to learn everything all over again. It's like being in an accident. And you lost your you know. And you gotTa bree figure out how everything works you know. One of the things that to that point that is really memorable for me is again. I got announced at a shareholder meeting. We bring everyone together once a year surprise announcement and I took you up. Qna UP ON STAGE with Richard at the time because we wanted people to ask me any questions they want. And I think you know the question was something to the effect of. What are you most excited about? In what are you most scared of or concerned about in this transition? I don't remember how I answered the the excited about I remember how I answered the one in mosques concerned about it and I'm sitting up on stage to him. I said I'm not him? You guys expect me to be him. You're going to be disappointed because there's not going to be another person like Richard Kessler. He was a larger than life personality. That helped drive this business to the level of success. We add you know. Don't don't expect that from anyone to come after him. Unfortunately that's the that's the mold that you're walking into whether you like it or not and Yeah it is. It is a big mountain climbing. I probably under appreciated that to some degree and I think being a kind of emotionally connected company just adds to some of that steepness of of making that transition but you know like Relationship Building Trust Building. Trust with people over the course of time people start to figure out did like the style or the okay with where we're going and a little bit what you said We didn't really nice job and we still do this. Empowering people to make decisions but at the end of the day the big decisions were were largely Richard Lead in. That's where you talk about this Ping Pong. I've tried to express to our our leadership team and we have four or five people that run basically the big parts of the business. The stores some of the back office repair shop and kind of the Admin. I said it's our job now to run this business. I'm not a command and control kind of leader. Who wants to just tell people exactly what to do. I want to surround myself with really smart people that can help. Inform me on what we should do and help be a part of that decision making process versus waiting for kind of the ordered execute. And it's it's it's it's exciting to see people take the rain. Some are doing it faster than others. Because they've probably been wanting that opportunity to have their input in and they would get their input but then at the end of the day you know his company was he probably controlled most of the major decisions in the business. So yeah that's it's a dynamic between coming behind the founder trying to empower people to build some muscle on decision making Again we would empower people to this day. We we tell everybody. Who joins our company? And I've Stolnis from Richard. Listen nine out of ten decisions. You're GONNA make us. An employee of kesslersdiamonds are going to be really good decisions where I'd be happy that you made the decision. You're going to be happy. You made the decision to be happy one of those ten decisions. You're GonNa make me happy with. We're not GONNA be happy with and we we apologize. We we accept that decision in advance. And it's okay. It's understandable because we want you to make those other nine decisions so we empower people with that speech whether you're a it doesn't matter what role you are in our company. We want people to make decisions but at the end of the day the big decisions to really drive the business were probably largely led by Richard E would inform himself through the leadership team but he was his call and I want it to be our call across our leadership team. It's ultimately Michael but I wanna I really WANNA get people to input on the decision very wise. I don't have all the answers again. I'm not the smartest guy so I don't mind. The wise person asks the questions not doesn't have the answer right. Isn't that what they say? Well that's a great place to end. Okay Yeah Joe. Thank you so much for being on the show. I've I've I'm glad that we finally made it work for me. I hope it's been fun fun. Tons of congratulations on your success. Thanks for sharing your story with us and and we'll be looking for big things to continue to happen for you and for Kessler's for everybody. You guys are touching the end for all those people. That are listening to podcasts. Am Stop in the store and go experience what the employee owner is all about in terms of. You know buying a piece of jewelry for someone special in their life or if you don't even have to buy something from us get it cleaned up. We'll we'll turn it back to life. That's another good form of advertising for us is taking a piece of jewelry in recreating the sparkle. That was in that piece whenever it was proposed. Yeah go to Kessler Yup. Thanks for listening to this episode of the how it happened. Podcast where we believe. That success doesn't happen unless you make it happen. You can subscribe to the podcast on Apple. Podcast Google podcasts. Stitcher or wherever you like to listen and while you're there please rate it and leave. A comment is wealth. I'd love to hear your thoughts about the show ideas for future guests or whatever you'd like to share and of course you can always find me at Mikenow attest to dot com. See you next time. Thanks again for listening to how that happened podcast.

Joe Whom Richard Mike Richard Kessler Kirke Joe Joe It Associated Bank Comerica Bank kesslers football Milwaukee President President Kesslers western Michigan University America Kalamazoo Wisconsin Waukesha County Banking Industry Joe Donna Cheeks Michigan
How Do We Help Families Impacted by Domestic Violence? - with Dr. Barbara Howes in Cass County

I'm Not In An Abusive Relationship

34:44 min | 5 months ago

How Do We Help Families Impacted by Domestic Violence? - with Dr. Barbara Howes in Cass County

"I don't need help. I'm not in an abusive relationship. This is just how it is for us. It's a lie. We tell ourselves one that many in abusive relationships repeats until they believe it. But there's hope welcome to. I'm not in an abusive relationship. A podcast about surviving domestic and sexual violence. This show is about hope. You will hear from survivors of abuse. Their stories may sound familiar. They may even inspire hope. Our goal is to connect with others in these toxic relationships to offer that hope and with support of our mission. Anyone willing to help get rid of abuse and our culture. We also talked with the experts in the field from the officers on the front lines of domestic abuse calls to the therapist and advocates helping survivors. Navigate this complicated road of recovery. If you're in need of help please visit our website or call our twenty four seven hotline eight hundred eight two eight two zero two three and at this is an emergency and you need help immediately. Please call nine one one. Welcome back to. I'm not in an abusive relationship. I'm your host for this episode. My name is dan and have a special guest today. We're gonna cover some some pretty deep subject. And but i'm really excited about it and so let me let me tell you who our guest is. Her name is dr house. And for the last twenty five years. She's been working with Burdened families and individuals and the multiple systems. They're involved with oftentimes including education criminal. Justice child welfare and mental and physical healthcare systems. She has a master's degree in social work. She's a licensed. Clinical macro level social worker and she has a phd. An interdisciplinary has sciences with a research. Focus on child and family being. And that's where we will concentrate today at. Your house is a program coordinator for a continuum of problem solving courts and casts and saint joseph counties. She's also a professor for the western michigan university school of social work and served as a faculty member for the us department of justice national association of drug court professionals. Not like asleep or anything. Is it dr batra house now. She also you also understand presented at the local regional state and national levels on topics like creating a trauma informed system of care for individuals and families and again. That's what we're gonna be talking about. Plus you've also urine accomplished grant writer procuring about twenty million dollars funding over the past twenty years for services and programming for individuals and families and casts and saint joseph michigan so dr house. Thank you so much for making time for this. Show me so today. We are talking about this idea that came up in conversations and talking about the podcast. And what kind of resources we can have in it's this need for coordinated interdisciplinary responses to address the the risks and needs of all family members impacted by domestic violence. And that sounds like such a huge huge undertaking. So let's start. Ma maybe doctor house who do you see. Domestic violence impacting first. All i mean. I think that you know the the obvious people that it in hacks are the ones like in that moment so you know. The victim perpetrator any witness. You know That i think is so. It's kind of like if you think apply. Got a a a that. That's the center of the circle. Go to the next now. The perfect There's you know there's more there's extended family members there's Neighbors of this can be you know. Sometimes it's only domestic violence but it's actually community violence. There are all the systems in the next circle that In the family and the community in the victim and the perpetrator all our will interact with on at any given time of you know whether it's the children going to school the next day after incident and then you know if the educators aren't informed or you don't have awareness for the resources that they need sure. There may be some behavioral problems or maybe the child does fall asleep for you know needed. The child does have an upset stomach or their. Maybe their you know there's interaction with the medical community or you know in the legal community. There's law enforcement. There's the courts there's probation parole on the social services the mental health all of those practitioners end all of the people that work in those systems that take that first call from someone so people just answering the phone in that all layers that you know i see domestic violence affecting and i wrote down this because it struck me. You'd said domestic violence and then you're almost corrected. Yourselfer added to it community violence. What happens quote behind closed doors. Which is maybe what. So many people upset over the years. Why don't get involved because it's well. It's our neighbor. It really is a community epidemic. A sounds like it really is if you think about. I mean it's violence and violence is violence whether you're related to someone or in a relationship with them or not You know if it's if it's in public or not in public if it is you know just a community member if it is von forsman officer you know whoever it is involved in as the victim or the perpetrator. it's violence. That's happening in our community. So i really view it as as a community issue as a public health issue and and so we so we started there. What is domestic violence and how is it. Impacting our community. And what is it. Who is it impacting. So then your house explained to the listeners. If you would then what you do and who you do that for like what is your. What is your job. How these things that are fed off you do a lot. But what is your. What is your direct connection to domestic violence victims and everybody involved direct connection in my role as coordinator in the problem solving courts. In just kinda even backup on staff a problem solving court is is a whole different way of doing business. it's it integrates intensive treatment with intensive supervision. It's the two of those working together hand in hand and it's based on a cheery called therapeutic jurisprudence which loosely translates to using the law for healing purposes. it's pretty Nontraditional approach But there's there's quite a bit of research that shows that You know when when we coordinate across disciplines across systems And we use evidence based practices. That are outcomes improve instead you know compared to when we work in our own separate silos and energy things that we think might or might not help You know so it's very coordinated and face a lot of research so my particular role. One of my roles is that i will often times Come in at the point where there has been an arrest and i will talk with the interview actually the offender and Her to that assessment than that. I do is look at You know the family in any issues any problems and there's always families are hard. They're hard work for all of us in especially in the middle of a pandemic you know. It's incredibly stressful. Instill a talk with him about Not only their current family but their family of origin What you know. What have they witnessed would have experienced in You know kind of looking at that multi generational pattern then I make recommendations That are base that are evidence based recommendation as to programming not only for the offender but to really take a family centered approach and make recommendations of You know possible resources for the offenders families on children and so that's one level of the work so there's kind of that. There's this this two levels today. I focused in one. Is that individual family Kind of a micro level in the other level that i focus on is the system level. The intervention that is really needed at the system level to help all of us that are working in the system of Learn in Learn how to provide trauma informed responses on to all of the people that we are serving and so entered to realize that we. We don't know that people have experienced the trauma of domestic violence or other traumas. So it's better to take kind of A universal precaution approach. So when you think about like in the medical field were taught to or just in general we're taught to Know if if you come in contact with bodily fluids we always assume someone may be infected with a communicable disease so we were gloves. Wear masks those kinds of things. It's the trauma with emotional trauma. It's safer for us and for them to just assume they might be have been exposed to that and our response so that we don't make it worse is should be trauma informed response in In how we how we talk with them you know what biases we bring to the table. And how we respond to them in the future. So kind of the two levels that i focused my work on In terms of the system really doing a lump training on trauma informed responses in in training in effort really a lot of work in helping people to work across systems in give up you know To work through territorial in turf issues and To realize that you know these this issue is crossing all the boundaries. It's crossing all the discipline. Boundaries clawson crossing boundaries whilst. Yeah so when you when we were talking about courts taught problem. Solving courts is what you call it right. Is that part of what we typically think of. As air quotes. The courts is acted as a totally outside of. How does that connect. Yeah it's connected it's It's a non adversarial approach in so it is You know the focus in in the focus in many problem solving courts is substance use and drug related crime and taking approach from a public health perspective. On how can we address this on and get better outcomes in kind of stop or slowdown revolving door other problem solving courts over there are a nation. Our domestic violence problem solving courts to take taken approach to Okay let's look at everybody. Wild ended in. This isn't just a you know. Let's let's go through the traditional. Send the perpetrator to a batterer. Screw send the victims navy. You know they have a couple of options certainly. Our domestic violence are day organization the community. They have supports for them as well and we were closely with them. When you come across any of the participants in the courts. I work with when there is domestic violence current past You know whether it's immediate family or the even the offender is done victim the victim and then later victimize you know looking at what can we do What are the the interventions we can provide that can that can stop the cycle And then prevent that provide primary prevention for future generations. And what do we need to look at within the system that neigh inadvertently perpetuate cycle as well of domestic and community violence in. So you're working with the problem solving courts which are connected to but outside of the general courts how how is our system addressing the needs of those survivors of abuse. Whatever kind of abuse from my perspective. I think that you know what i see a lot. Is that the kind of the need jerk. Response is to give them the phone number so basis. Maybe a card fuller done. They kinda step out That's kind of what i see in in. I think that the real need is to definitely provide that information in that resource but then to offer some support to to help so it's scary to you. Know to get involved with daisies or any other organization or deities or know that they're there to help but when you come in as a consumer you know it's all bit very private information of your of your life that is now you know kind of being. Can you can feel very vulnerable in. We needed to make more efforts than just going beyond. Just giving the information to also. You didn't looking at some of the practical concrete issues. Do they have a way to contact safely. do have transportation. Do they have some basic needs That or assistance with basic needs so that they can focus on not only physical safety but their emotional safety as well So so how do we make that happen then. The sounds like it's you know a lot of work. Maybe takes some financial support. It takes training like. Where do we start with that. It's i mean you when you're looking at any type of you know global issue public health is it is. It's very large. And i think it's so much easier for us to blame the victim or to just think i did my part. I gave the victim the card. If they don't call that's on the you know take each other back or they go back or they don't leave you know that's Or you know. I think that it's easy to stop at that point. So if you think okay if if for example from my perspective in a nice situation if i suspect a child You know has been abused or neglected including you know like being part of the domestic violence are witnessing it if i were a mandated report earth. If i were to report that than you know it does become it is into some extent it out of my hands. In in terms of what happens How the the domestic or the dhs will respond but other pieces. That i can. Also i mean i can do. She supportive through that process to you. Know to the child or to the family But i think that you know overall the approach it has to be comprehensive. It has to address both of those two levels that i talked about. Just the real basic concrete's immediate issues for the family and the children involved and then at the secondary the macro level. We really need to be you know as as people that are involved in all every single system that the children in the families come into contact with we need more education. We need more information. We need resources on. What do we do. Or who do we call. Or even you know. Even if we don't know the specific things that might be helpful. You know to be able to Juneau to know what we'd no. No i know what we know is the place to start and then to build from there but it is it's huge and it needs It's a huge problem and we need a huge response. Who's who's getting it right. You mentioned earlier that there are places around the country that have few on problem solving courts. Domestic violence type core almost like a Like the drug court kind of a thing who out there whether it's in our own community or other communities is getting it right when it comes to this interdisciplinary connection of helping victims. I think one of the It's called the center for court innovation and on their website. They actually They're looking at innovative approaches responses in in there looking at those across the country and i don't know that anyone is getting it one hundred percent. There's definitely efforts. You know in their efforts and i know that even locally That there are with the outreach. Advocates from daesean work very closely with law enforcement I think that's a that's a great example of doing something right. You know that that is a kind of you know really a nice warm hand off when it between law enforcement Today's and you know. Sometimes they're even at the scene or soon after or they're you know they have advocates in the prosecutor's office. That are helping people. You know navigate that legal system which is very foreign in in kennedy re traumatizing. So i think that there's there's there's places that are doing some things right. There are pieces that we are doing right. And i think that's all a good place to start that. The center for coordination has a great deal of information on just a variety of creative things that are going on center for court innovation. Yes i'll look them up. I'm curious about that. D'etre house what do you want the average listener to know whether they're a supporter of these efforts. Whether is someone who finds himself in that situation whether they're facing court whatever that looks like your average listener. What's your biggest thing you want them to walk away with after hearing from you. Guess that regardless of if you're in regardless of the situation that each person in personally whether they they have been fortunate enough to be unaffected by domestic violence throughout their life or community violence or whether they've been in the midst of it and whether it was a multi generational pat in their family is to realize that That all of us look at it. And i think we're all in recovery from something you know and or we need help recovering from something in that when we first start out in this process. Were all infants that recovery process and as an inch in a whole bunch of health You know so. Initially we do need a whole bunch of help and then as infants learn and girls every single day. We all need to do that as well. And be open to learning and growing and to to learn to do things. And and when i say that you know it sounds so easy when i vote. That will save why you know. Why does this person keep going back to that. You know that person who's violent them Changes very very difficult. In it's changed there is a process of change that we all go through in our lives. And i guess when i think about the pandemic situation we've all really had to change a lot of things you know in the past ten eleven months. I don't think it's been really pretty for all of us set up. You know every moment and every step of the way i think. We've all been pretty resistant and gotten pretty angry. Wanted to go back to the way things were You know they've been used really unhealthy coping skills so the process of change is difficult for the people are receiving services from the sim whether they're not even there yet to receive the services but also the process of change for the people in the system is incredibly difficult There's there's always. There's a resistance to change. That's inherent in any system to maintain a status. Quo is oftentimes an inherent characteristic of a system to be patient with ourselves with others but not to be complacent patient but not complacent. So we first started talking. Who wanted to explore this idea of Coordinated interdisciplinary responses to address needs and risks. And everything to do with any members who are impacted by domestic violence. You've mentioned that you know maybe getting a hundred percent right but there are a lot of efforts which is great local and national. We talked about you know Having patients with yourself but not complacence if we could make wave a magic wand and say here's how it looks. Here's the perfect situation. What does that look like from where you sit daas. Yes i would be looking at You know if i woke up tomorrow miracle had occurred These are the things. I would would be in place or would have needed to be placed for the miracle to have happened. There's an there's a need for injury prevention services and that's just providing nets before there's been a problem for those people who have not been affected by domestic violence is providing education and information about healthy relationships. What do those look like. What are some unhealthy signs in relationship in how you address those and And that starts with you know with a parenting with you know in our families from birth on off so that you know since you gave me a magic wand and saying that our eight is happening you know for all families everywhere from birth on that there's information is education there's That were modeling. What is a healthy relationship because You know when we as parents are in an unhealthy relationship. We're always at role model whether it's a positive or negative one but we don't get to choose whether or not we are a role model. I would look at that. Primary prevention piece and then the next part would be secondary. Prevention is kind of looking at okay. Maybe we're in the early stages here. Let's do universal screening of that. Anyone can take any time for free to say. How healthy is this relationship or this situation. How safe is You know and so when we go in for screening for in at from medical procedure you know. Sometimes they ask us two or three questions. If you answer yes to one they move you to the next step that provide you information resources And if you don't answer yes any you know than you might be screened again at another time and so looking at that secondary prevention of screening and referral process to help in the early stages before things escalate to violence eight out in to provide assistance. All the people that You know are involved. And then i guess the the final one would be the tertiary prevention which is really kind of an after the facts. It's happened now what you know. How can we Provide support services Services for healing And for safety and then interestingly enough that tertiary prevention that is an after the fact intervention actually then becomes primary prevention for the future generations. So we can. There's no we don't what we don't want to do is get to the point where we say. Oh it's too late you know it's over it'll never change. It'll always be here. You know we do. Have you know on a person to person basis. We have opportunities you know frequently to help people to make changes in their lives that will impact their children's lives. You know and it's up to us if you know. We went to help them do that. Or if they are wanting help and then what the you know. The outcomes will look like about primary secondary Tertiary prevention all. Three of those on both levels annette micro level at the family individual and then also at the macro level of all of those systems the education in the medical the legal. You know the mental health physical health care in all of those at both of those levels for those people so we need some individual working a lot of systemic. Work both agree great. Yeah is there anything that i didn't ask you about. You wanna make sure listeners. Really take in when it comes to giant issue. That faces us. That's okay. I think it's I guess what. I would leave you. It is just an example A young mom. I was working with many years ago and She was she had been in a very relate very violent relationship working with her Through a program called Wraparound which is it crosses disciplines. It crosses systems it helps You know So it works on a system level but also the family in the individual level talking about In terms of family in terms of support did she have and we ended up meeting with both with her her mother and her grandmother in in that session. They were the mom in the very very frustrated with the young mom about why she was in this relationship and then from their perspective why she continued to seek out these relationships and we did Lease used as a tool called the gina. Graham which is kind of like a family tree with pictures and with a lot more detail so we did the gina looking at going back a couple of generations in you know gutted basics of males females ages how they were related and then we looked at The young mom. I was like show me here all the males in all of these generations like who Have been in. Have you seen be violent or heads. Violent he used in the engine. I had her. Just kinda put like a red x. and as it turned out that was all she news. That was what she had learned by observation. And my experience and many evolved into You know some deeper work. That was not just this one person who nets returning to your seeking out violent relationship. It was okay. There's all of these generations that this has been going on for. Emily went back a couple generations that person the victim in most situations had very he resources to leave or to get out that there wasn't durant educational resources there. Weren't you know it was it was more of The i remember the grandma's saying i knew my place and so i looked at look at that. I think that that was for that situation. I think that the shift was they. Stop viewing this young mom as a the problem or something wrong with her and kind of the refrain was really. She's the valedictorian you know. She graduated with honors from this system. That she she was very observant in learned. Well you know what what you know in her interpretation is. This is the way it's supposed to be in. This is the normal. I hear you say something that i've heard again and again conversations within days we we stop we need to we in a general sense need to stop blaming victims and see where they are how they got there not give excuses but understand them and help to move forward. I agree and i you know. I see the same thing too when i'm working with the offender or the perpetrators Look back historically how they got to where they are. I have a greater understanding of how they got to where they are not to say. It's okay and it can continue. It should continue but not to make excuses but you know we all learn you know and and the you know we inherit much more than money you know. Avenues and behaviors and actions and that and we as families make up society and we everyone in the system has a family and so we all bring to the table. You know some of those lessons and if we don't really do an overhaul and just take a hard on us look at you know. What have we learned. What am i. If and how can i help myself but how can help others as well. Great information thank you for the inspiration as well. Dr barbara house. Thank you for being a part of this. Is there any particular website or place. You'd wanna send folks to either find more resources or two with if needed or anything like that. And there's the there's the national domestic violence hotline which is one eight hundred seven nine nine safes. Saf e also digital would be seven to three the one eight hundred seven nine nine seven two three three. I've mentioned the center for court enervate innovation in the other website. That has a lot of resources. You just learning wanting to learn more about how you know. How do we start doing this. Interdisciplinary cross systemic collaborative. Approach the us department of health and human services. They have a website. It's called child welfare information gateway those. Those are all really good resources at your house. Thank you so much for being a part of. I'm not in an abusive relationship for having me. Thank you for listening to. I'm not in an abusive relationship. These stories resonate with you need help. Please visit our website. D. a. s. s. i. dot org that's acis m. i. dot org or call our hotline eight hundred eighty eight two zero two three. We are here to walk alongside of you know someone who might benefit from our show. Please share social media. Email simply telling someone about it all help us spread the word and help us to combat domestic and sexual violence. He also welcome financial and volunteers support. That information is our website. Thank you to the staff. Volunteers and board directors at domestic and sexual services. This podcast is produced with the hell. The committee of dedicated advocates. Thank you to wbz. T radio in sturgis michigan for the use of their studio. This has been a podcast about surviving domestic and sexual in a production of domestic and sexual abuse services of michigan.

dr house western michigan university sc us department of justice natio dr batra von forsman center for court daesean center for coordination communicable disease dan Ma michigan dhs Juneau navy kennedy Dr barbara house
"Day of Days": The Bath Schoolhouse Bombing with author John Smolens

Radio Free Flint

38:30 min | 7 months ago

"Day of Days": The Bath Schoolhouse Bombing with author John Smolens

"Almost blue amazon snacks still on a good day car. Well i guess. Just like tally In in grade or visit only your dog does the way a little later ugly variable. Yeah all hello. This is arthur bush. You're listening to radio free flint. Today are episode. Guest is author. John small and award winning novelist. Whose historical fiction tells the story of the tragic and shocking bombing of the bath michigan schoolhouse in nineteen twenty seven. There were forty five people killed in that bombing and countless children and adults injured in the spring of nineteen twenty seven andrew. Ki-ho the treasure for the school board of bath michigan spent weeks surreptitiously repetitiously wiring public school as well as his far with hundreds of pounds of dynamite explosions on may eighteenth the day before graduation killed in maimed dozens of children as well as teachers administrators village residents including kino's wife. Nellie a respected member of the community. Keo himself died when he ignited his truck loaded with crates of explosives scrap metal after he had had set off explosions in its portrayal of several bass school children day of days examines. How such a trauma scars once life long after the data laid to rest and the wounded. He'll and how an anguished but resilient american village copes with the bombing which it's time seem beyond comprehension and now. Maybe considered a harbinger of the future. One survivor beatrice circa decades. Later lies in her deathbed recalls the spring of nineteen twenty seven and how this haunting experience at led her to the conviction that one does not survive. The present without reconciling hard truths about the past small has published twelve works of fiction. Eleven of those were novels and a collection of short stories. His most recent novel is day of days is novel wolf. Smiles was selected. As the of michigan's notable book for two thousand seventeen. His work has appeared in various publications across the nation is work has been featured in the columbia journal of literature art. The boston globe the los angeles times and the washington post. He was educated at boston college. The university of new hampshire and the writer's workshop at the university of iowa is been on the faculty of michigan state university western michigan university and is a professor emeritus at northern michigan university where he taught english department and served as director of the masters of fine arts program in creative writing in two thousand and ten john. Mullins was the recipient of the michigan author of the year award from the michigan library association. He lives in marquette music. That you just heard is titled flint michigan. It was provided to us courtesy of singer songwriter. On shade dakat the ultra music entitled flint river. Blues was provided courtesy of singer-songwriter colton. Thank you for listening to us. We hope you enjoy this podcast and welcome john. Thank you very much. Could be your author and i'm glad that you took time to join us. We're interested in listening to some stories about the day of days which is a historical fiction and tell tell us just a summary of what dapple gifts and the reason that i was drawn to this. Not many people know though. I think here in michigan is better known than other parts of the country. This historical fiction. is based on the real incident. That occurred in town of bath which is about ten miles north east of lansing in may of nineteen twenty seven terrible incident. Where on the day before graduation. The the town's relatively new a local farmer named andrew p keo had Spent weeks of quite possibly months wiring the entire building. This large brick building with hundreds of pounds of explosives and setting it up with timers and so forth so that the morning of may eighteenth. He detonated fortunately not the entire building but a good portion of the building the number of people who are maimed in wounded. I don't think has ever been clearly determined. But they were before seriously injured on. Carry those injuries for longtime if not for the rest of their lives so the story revolves around the town of bath leading up to this incident. denison description of that particular day in in considerable detail and then it follows the main characters of the story who are fictional most part into the rest of their lives Trying to describe what the ramifications of this may have been for them how influenced the way they viewed life and how. They live the rest of their days. The book is in jonrowe historical fiction. If that isn't john raymond. I believe so. I'm a little. I'm a little wary of pigeonholing anybody's books particularly might say this is historical fiction. But there's no denying that this is based on real historical. It's sometimes it seems to me that when people say all historical fiction. It's it's almost like they're trying to put it away in a corner like that. Somehow diminishes is relevance to today when my hope is that even though this book describes a an occurrence that the kim about nearly a decade ago nineteen twenty seven. There are parallels. I don't go. i don't think. I go overboard in trying to draw those parallels. But i would hope that a contemporary reader would see that there are certainly connections between what happened then in what the sorts of things that we have seen in recent we could draw some parallels but you would prefer the reader draw their own. Yeah sure you know i. I try not to use my books as as a bully. Pulpit if you will. I mean i have my say but my hope is if i described the environment in this case a small rural a farm town in the early stages of twentieth century and how the people lived Before this incident and then described the incident and then you know how they came out of it the other side. My hope is that I mean readers are going to take away a very different feelings and thoughts from it I would imagine So i i think you know once you finished writing a novel you of have to let it go. I've had people contact me right me or talk to me. And they told me what they thought about one of my books. And sometimes i'm not in my head in saying yes that makes perfect sense to me but there have been times when people said things. I'm going really. Where's that coming from. But that's their reading. You know you have to kind of step back and say entity that is separate from yourself at some point it's like the temptations just my imagination raised just by. Thank you for that michigan inaction apso but talking about what you said that life had changed in terms of the before and the after for the people the characters in your book and i'm curious if you would take us off for just a brief ride your describe what you think. Those changes might have been. Well This is a work of fiction as i said there are two sets of characters A number of the characters who were directly involved in the bombing are based on the the real historical figures andrew. Keough the perpetrator of course. And then there's a number of people who are involved such as school administrators And after the fact of the bombing there were Authorities police the county prosecutor. You know people like that. They are bae those characters based on the history the history of the actual bombing then there are. The main characters of the story are really four children into in particular. Who are fictional. The i would say the most main character most central character is Be turcott beatrice turcott. Who was about fourteen years old time of the bombing. She is actually telling you the story. She is a very old woman who is in assisted living in those. She's within days of die and she's looking back on her life. No moment no event in the rest of their life was ever occurred without being somehow colored or or tainted by the events of that bombing. It's something that they never went at. Never never left them I know today we talked about was. Ptsd icon Medical expertise to save the children who were involved in that bombing experience that but my guess is that you know in the aftermath. They must have certain emotional and intellectual ramifications The carried through the rest of their lives and influence their decisions. Let me give you one example. After the budget is a is a very bright kid and after the bombing he becomes as he's moving into a deeper into adolescence. he's getting stronger. He's getting bigger it becomes very belligerent. He he really doesn't understand why but he just can't resist getting into fistfights. He picks fights with other boys. He goes after boys who are bigger than him. His role model has hero is gene. Tunney the famous famous boxer of the time. I let me just say this. I know sometimes people who fixing writers who use history will manipulate history and they will change The real historical elements The factual aspects for example. Somebody wrote a novel some years ago. I don't remember the name of the author or the book but it was a speculation that world war two had. Germany won world war two. You can never be absolutely certain that you are that you have all the facts right because historians don't always agree. Believe me if you read about anyone. Historical event historians have a very greatly about exactly what happened. Who who what. Where winded y. All of that vary. So you have to sort of Win you wade through that those wickets in my research of some of the groups that were terrorists of the time. They'll think they use that word about the ku klux klan or on the purple game. Or the legion. I mean those are three of the prominent prominent groups that existed throughout this time period. Be back and there were some speculated over over time. The research that i have there is a lot of speculation and rumors that maybe there was some connection to us one or both or any of these groups. Were you able to find that out or elaborate on that at all well in the matter of the bombing in bath this was. It was clearly determined that this was the act of one individual. Andrew acted completely on his own though. I should say that. In the immediate aftermath of the bombing there was naturally was remarkable confusion. Nobody understood what had happened and it took a while for thirties. A really sort out. You know who did this. Perhaps why it was done. There was for a really months after the bombing. There was a quite significant concern. Fear in the town of bath that perhaps andrew kiel had accomplices and one result was again. This is from the historical record. People who lived in that area Were were keenly aware of in afraid that perhaps other buildings. Perhaps other homes had been wired. Be blown up as well. So searches were conducted in. Virtually every i think most if not all structures in the town of fat people wanted to make sure that there weren't explosives put elsewhere because they didn't know if there were accomplices but it's really been determined without a doubt that he in this case he acted alone. Let me just also mentioned that. He not only blew up the school that day his far which was just outside of the village he wired his entire farm every every structure that the farmhouse the chicken coop the barn every structure was wired with with dynamite. And they all were blown up at virtually within minutes of school going up. He just determined he wanted to blow everything up but he did act alone in this instance. Yes and like many of these Dastardly deranged individuals. He committed suicide thereafter. He did he did and again. This is based on historical record. Although historians will differ about certain details. He returned to his farm after it had blown up and it was engulfed in flames and neighbors who were standing around the property in awe of the spectacle saw him return in his truck and they didn't know what he did something out so smoky. They couldn't see a loaded something into his truck and he drove into town. He drove up to the school which is in the center of town there. He parked right in front of the school. Of course at this point because the school had been blown up there were. I don't know dozens and dozens of people involved in the first efforts to to remove the rubble and save what children they could. They could fine what he had done is he had loaded the truck up with crates of explosives and he he had. It was known that he had a a very contentious relationship with the superintendent of schools A man named husic. Emory husic as luck would have it unfortunate luck. Houston happened to be crossing the main street just as keough arrived and they began talking right next to the truck now this is where historians differ. Some say that that keo actually had some kind of trigger some kind of button or something that was off pre-arranged wired in his truck he pushed blew himself and emory Houston cup and several other bystanders. Others say they saw other witnesses say they saw him take out a gun and shoot the crates fire into the crates of explosives and blow everything up but the result of that one is it yes he was killed very seriously Maimed people lost limbs That sort of thing This are kill fellow. Abso- was as a mad bomber though. No he was an active member of the community On on several occasions he had run for local government and he lost and again. I'm speculating here. But i suspected that rejection in part contributed to his ultimate decision to take these dire steps. He I believe that his marriage had a lot to do with it because his wife was blown up in the farmhouse he was found dead His her by was terribly burned. You know amazingly he. He was not a member of voted in elected member of the school board at bath but he at the time was there acting treasurer a handled. You know all of their money issues. Because of that he had access to the school building he had the keys to all the doors so for him to confer months before this happened he had the ability to come and go from the school at any of the day because he could unlock doors and no one would question his coming and going one can only presume. I mean the amount of dynamite that he put into the building. I mean it was in the hundreds of pounds and it was distributed all over this large building. It must have taken a him weeks at the lease and i. I would not be surprised if it was months for him to actually set this up so this was not. This certainly was not a spur of the moment decision. This was something that very slowly and methodically he planned out. The authorities were really impressed with how carefully and how neatly he wired everything because fortunately not everything went so they could the unexploded dynamite in the wiring and so forth and they were really impressed with how well he did. The job said to say there was some reference in my research to keyhole being motivated in part by some dispute over property taxes that that too. And you know. I don't want to place. I don't want to create a hierarchy hierarchy of grievances. But i think that one of the truly central aspects of his decision to take this to take this action had to do with money If you look at his family history going back to his childhood his father Keo was raised down in tecumseh down south of in arbor. His father was a man who has vehemently opposed taxation clear from statements that andrew keough made as a resident at bath that he was very opposed taxation. And it's true that The school and bath it was called the bath. Consolidated school had been built merely five years before the bombing. Nineteen twenty two. I can't remember the exact figure but hard to believe this substantial brick building costs something under forty thousand dollars to build in those days. That amount of money placed a significant financial burden on the town of bat. They made a significant decision to invest in their future in their children by building the school but the result of course was that experience had to be distributed through increase taxes and keo is vehemently opposed to increase taxes secondly the farm that he and his wife nellie lived on her maiden name was price in the price family. She was raised in bath in the price family was a well regarded family that you know with a long history of the town of bath. The arrangement was that when she and andrew. They bought the price farm from her sisters. Who live down lanson. And i believe that he had great resentment for the fact that he was paying a mortgage that is essentially allowing the sister to live at what he thought was the lap luxury in lansing. So there was. There are two aspects to the financial aspects of element of this was that he was paying a town taxes he thought were grossly elevated into i think he resented the fact. He was basically supporting all of the sisters of his wife so the financial circumstances clearly contributed to his decision. Yes i believe that they were thirty. Up boy Correct me if. I hope i'm correct. I believe there were thirty. Eight children and six adults. I think there was a total of eventually forty. Five deaths as a direct result of the bombing. I believe one of the deaths occurred quite a bit later. Somebody survived a long time and finally guy and we don't know how many were injured. We can just assume it was that you know. That's something in what i've read and i tried to read a great deal this event. No one has been able to actually calculate the number of people injured but the they were in the dozens and as i said before some of them were very severe They're they're horrible pictures of children in hospitals in traction. It was not just bruises cuts Some of them were seriously seriously wounded. Muslims kids grow up. Obviously they grew up with physical scars and emotional scars as we would expect. Yes let me give you one example of how know as much as this is a horrific incident and there's no mitigating. I hope that the story that i'm telling also underscores the way the town of bath as a whole responded Friends were came to each other's aid in in so many different ways one of the things that they did. You know i mean back then you know if you had an incident like this today you would have served. The response will be in a more official capacity state government and so forth things were not sophisticated level back then one of the ways. They dealt with the rubble which was very substantial. Is they had what they called. A work bees b. e. s. and the township townspeople simply organiz these on their own and they would say on such a such a day Fortunately it was in the summertime because the bombing was in the middle of may. They said we're going to have a picnic on school grounds dozens. Perhaps even hundreds of people would come down with and gloves and so forth and they would spend the day clearing the rubble away stacking the brick stacking lumber and at the same time they would set up an enormous picnic to you know Take a break in in in in be together. I i just find that that. Approach that response to be has to be expressed in this story just as much as the horrific elements as well because without that. I don't think the town would have been able to ever really pulled together. So they spent their time grieving by cleaning up to a large degree. Yes one of the other things that is clear. Is that the the level of curiosity on the part of the public. Outside of the town of bath actually was a great hindrance in the in the first hours after the bombing The stream of cars that came bath just to see what had happened. caused real problems in terms of getting the injured in an out getting supplies in you know necessary equipment and so forth The police had to really try to control this this this traffic jam. People weren't accustomed to traffic jams in one thousand nine hundred twenty s as as he can imagine but they for days at days even weeks really after the bombing. The flow of traffic through the little town of bath was serving an unending stream. There are descriptions of People coming in and and walking up to the house is the homes of victims children so forth and people would come up and just look in the windows. They wanted to see the people who you have the family of the victims and so forth. Now did this. Create resentment among some of the locals No doubt that it did as time went by slowly that diminished but the initial response. One that this was an extraordinary event. It was unlike anything. People senior in those days bombing. A public school was just not something that people found imagine. Well it's still harder. Amanda while it is. I know i know but unfortunately we have such so many incidents now that if we hear about such an occurrence it's not like oh my god. I never thought that would happen. Which is truly unfortunate. Now there was sort of a code of silence. That embellished the tom. Yes they are extremely reticent when it comes to the bombing my sincere hope is that Any of them who are familiar with my book and read my realized that it is written. It is intended to be an honest attempt to describe and understand what what happened. But yes there. There's been a reticence in reluctance to express in a public way Their feelings about this event even now generations later. Let let me give you a tell you one thing that occurred several years ago while i was writing the book. There's a a journalist and writer down. Atlantic bill cast near who wrote on a couple of occasions wrote about the fact that i was writing. This book was published in A magazine atlantic After the first time he wrote about this. I got along email from a couple who live in bath on remember. Their names now But they told me that they were retired and wonder both of them The wife at least had for a good portion of her career as a teacher taught in school based system. And what really stuck with me is. She said that even now decades after the event of the bombing the school receives Threats and they pretend particularly tend to increase as they approached the annual anniversary in may of the actual bombing. This still people out there who think they can send an email or make a phone call. Get a rise out of people if you go to the deterrent. School bath like so many schools. Now in lockdown. You have to inform them that you're coming in advance the doors lot they let you in. I've done that been met at the door walk through. You can't simply walk into that school. You wrote eleven lemon books. I believe i think so. The last time. I counted yet about all manner of stuff. Interesting stuff I hope so every book this nature as it would be for me as a trial lawyer a criminal in many horrific horrific cases You walk away. A little dinged from each one and definitely are profoundly emotionally affected by them. How is writing this book about this story and getting into it to the degree that you have. How's it affected. You and i mean. I don't know that it's good or bad. Just i'm just asking for yourself description not necessarily trying to say a to go see a psychologist after. He wrote this book. Well quite frankly. If i stopped writing this booker and it went books then i might need to seek some professional help i for me. I find writing to be extremely therapeutic as much as i level. Walk on the beach took lake superior's right down the hill from my house. It's a little cold down there right now but still i love to walk. We walk the beach yesterday. Writing is a like painting drawing I think these are outlets for certain people. I find it necessary. It helps me. Maintain assir certain equilibrium writing fiction. Now you know hidden in this case. The the main character my. This story is told from multiple points of view which not all but many of my books are. I can't say that each and every character is point of view. I tell part of the story from is a representation of me. I'm not trying to do that. You know the main character in this story is a very elderly woman named Who's recalling her her childhood. She's about as far away from from me In so many ways and yet using her as vehicle i in some ways could tap into my own childhood there certain response certain emotion certain thoughts that she has recorded in the story in some way to come up out of my own experience. This book was written in what year. Well boy i'd have to go back. I would say probably worked on his book for four or five years. I tend to take my time. I also will put something aside for a considerable period of time that pick it up again so if i say i work on a book for four or five years. That doesn't mean it's continuous. I often will work on a book for year or two. Then stop work on something else in a comeback I'm a strong believer that the time away from a book is really as productive as constructive as when you're actively working on i think your subconscious tends to Really continued to turn the material over and when you finally go back to looking at that manuscript that unfinished manuscript you see it with new is if you have read it months or even more than a year later assault right off. The top of my head i would say four to five years The response will hit. It's it's so far. It's been quite good but first of all as i said a lot people this happened. Most of the people who are natives of or have lived in michigan for a long time very unfortunately when you mentioned the town of bath there are certain people michigan. Who made us in. That's the time where the bombing occurred. So you know you never know how people are going to respond to your broken. If people don't like your book and they tell you. I hope i have a thick enough skin has to say i accept that. And you know. I appreciate your your. You're telling me so and leave it at that for the most part people who've read the book and got in touch with me have thought it was well worth reading and again because of the nature of the story they seem to think that it was Very moving to have to serve. Go through what these characters go through is such a terrible situation now. The city of bath obviously never been the same or recovered. Eventually i don't think they ever will Not completely and nor should they. If you go to bath today it's still a small town of course with modern know Conveniences back in nineteen twenty seven. The ten miles between bathroom is the capital of lansing was the seem far greater distance. Downtown bath in those days was The number of stores services available in bath. Were far more than you have today today. Beth is you know a small community right outside of the city. You can get on i sixty nine and in a matter of minutes be downtown lansing so if you walk through. The village of bath at the downtown section is not as nearly as vibrant. Quite frankly as it. It was back then. If you were to go to where the school was. The school was on a knoll on the main street overlooking the village What they've done is After the bombing they i they did build a school right on the original site Which some years ago. I don't know when but that building eventually was was torn down. The current public school in bath is just across the street of downhill. I think to the east. The noah where the bombing took place is a park which i think is very appropriate. And when you go to the park wants Surviving aspect of the school structure was there. Was this really attractive. Enlarge cucolo on the roof which survived the bombing and that is the centerpiece In the Park and if you look at the covered by book that that coppola that is based on a photograph of that structure and there's also a very large rock. I mean it's stands five or six feet high and equally around and it has a big bronze plaque on the has the names of all those who were killed so it's it's a memorial that site in a very tastefully and quietly inappropriately done. I appreciate your time. I wanted to mention that. Your book was published by michigan. state university. press so if our listeners wanna get a copy of this book they can go to. Msu presser they can go to your website which will list in the show notes. Yes thank you again Mother information we made post some other stuff up in on our website. So thank you for your time. Appreciate it thank you john. Smoltz was brown smell. Line chlorine still a city of visuals said the water was lean. People broke out in rashes somewhere. Losing their hair negga playing jazz. Didn't lan river water very own. I knew that was bad all of that she had released this study. That's daughters Your little been. Pausing planner every water as dr pantai water. A die shows the system windy. Yeah it'll pause and yard children live. You can still see right there. Not a truth. It's and playing a lot of locked her

michigan arthur bush John small treasure for the school board beatrice circa columbia journal of literature the los angeles times faculty of michigan state univ masters of fine arts program michigan library association Keo andrew p keo john raymond andrew beatrice turcott lansing andrew kiel keo northern michigan university husic
Poets Christopher Davis And Allison Hutchcraft Bring Lives and Nature to the Page in Oath and  Swale

Charlotte Readers Podcast

1:14:56 hr | 8 months ago

Poets Christopher Davis And Allison Hutchcraft Bring Lives and Nature to the Page in Oath and Swale

"Support for charlotte readers. Podcast is provided by park road. Books the oldest and only independent bookstore in charlotte and by charlotte mecklenburg library a connector of readers leaders and learners with twenty locations and a twenty four hour online presence. Support is also provided by members like you and for that we offer our gratitude along with some awesome number only content. You can find out more about these member. Benefits at charlotte raiders. Podcasts dot com. Welcome to charlotte readers. podcast authors. Give voice to the written words. This is the show remained local and regional authors and sometimes even farther afield with the magic of remote podcasting and we hear them read their work. We are a proud member of the queen. City podcast network a collection of charlotte podcast produced in and centering around the queen city and also a proud number of authors only air global radio network broadcasting radio shows podcasts about offers to a worldwide audience. I'm landis way the producer and host of this podcast. I'm recovering trial lawyer. I'm the author of a trilogy of books. Were lawyers save christmas kind of a cross between my cousin. Vinny and miracle on thirty fourth street. And i write stories and i love books and love dolls and love beaches mountains and flos fishing sports in reading and more and i'm excited about today's episode. So let's get to today's episode award winning charlotte poets. Christopher davis alison hutch craft authors of the poetry books oath published by main street rag and swail published by new issues press with western michigan university chris and alison both state university of north carolina. Charlotte david trinidad says. There's a sharp steel like edge to the lions and christopher davis is poems so finally or they in a tuned to the battalion of fact the limits of human interaction. Pacey rectal says. Hovercraft examines the delicate balance between rapture ravishing in poems ambitious as. They are beautiful. We start the show with chris reading his poem. Examine her life and allison reading her poem. I've written myself into a tropical glove. Examine her life. Her mother's kitchen stank like a barnyard embarrassed by her cud-chewing father feeling unloved. She swore she'd be perfect married. She wrapped furniture and plastic exercising under her calendar. She flip flopped up and down a real in trout eventually once she proved doomed to fail her husband getting calls from an all night. Her menopause her diabetes chips cheap wine divorce. Her youngest son stabbed to death. Her ideal broke she breed. She blinked. She watched the news trapped in erect infested house. She had designed herself for so much more. A victims advocate. She pressured courts to grant parents of murdered. Children rights to ask the killers. Why rage mock forgive her own self. Consciousness became her grace. She saw she was simply alive laughing. Accusing crying mute. Comprehending love helping others feel before dying. I have written myself into a tropical glow after darwin. The c is laced in phosphorus essence. Little galaxies afloat in swell insects click. They're invisible tongues to wake the silken light volcano fire and lizard belly dusky skies softening fats unfolding descending as the barometer drops stars pinned to their velvety seats and the air scented swallowed insects falling into the open mouths of waxy or could blossoms. Spiny bramalea adds water into sticky pitcher plants. Tendrils curling frogs bleeding their morning songs. The bleat that rises billowing filling the air like a flag or swelling like a sale to not think of myself even for an hour but if firefly's lighting under story and everything tinged with this tropical glow haloed hallowed steeped in birdsong pressing the sky as if this world were glass and breath alone could make it flame listeners before we dive into the interview here. I'd like to huma. Thank you for taking some your valuable time to listen to this episode today. We really appreciate it Also like to let you know but a couple of benefits available to our listeners. Show notes this episode with images links and information about the authors are available at charlotte readers. Podcasts dot com. Also if you'd like to support your favourite local independent bookstore and get audio books at the same time you can join libro dot. Fm that's l. about fm. And if you use the promo code charlotte reader all one word men be from charlotte but you can still charlotte reader to get this benefit. When you use promo code you're gonna get Two bucks for the price of one when you join it Labor's fourteen ninety. Nine monthly membership will miss a great way to support You're looking at have been a bookstore and get Great audiobooks at the same time. Oh and speaking of audiobooks now. Christmas is around the corner. I'd like to let you know that. Ma three books and the christmas courtroom trilogy or now on audio books and you can find all three wherever you to get your audio and also that lebron dot. Fm i'm really excited about the fact that i connected Ripta an actor in la. He is the narrator for the series. Says name is Bill jones he's best known for his role as rod remington from fox. Tv's glee he's also appeared a number of other Shows days of our lives the king of claims the drew carey show and much much more. He's really funny guy and he's he's singers well. He does justice to the series and say cross between cousin. Vinny miracle on thirty fourth straight even listen to all three audio books where you get your audio books or you can get the first new book for free by signing up for our email list for pretty much went any retail site now and the other two books to listen to audio book. Get those two for the price of one if you join labor dot fm with that promo code charlotte reader. All one word. That said i've got a little bit more about the author and then the interview more ratings and the writing life segments of hope you enjoy. Christopher davis is the author of four books of poetry the tired of the past and the slave of the future winner of the nineteen eighty-eight associated writing programs award the patriot published by university of georgia. Press nineteen ninety eight. The history of the war published by four way books in two thousand five and both published by main street rag. Press in two thousand twenty yields a ba from syracuse university in an mfa from the university of ours writer's workshop. He's a professor in the english department university north carolina. Charlotte house is the author of the poetry collection swail published by new issues. Press in october. Two thousand twenty and named the two thousand nineteen editors choice by new issues. Poetry and prose poems have appeared in boulevard. the cincinnati reviewed crazy horse gettysburg review kenyon review the missouri review and the southern review among other journals. She's been awarded an artist fellowship. From northland arts council and regional artists project grant from the arts and science council with city of charlotte mecklenburg county. She teaches poetry and creative writing at the university of north carolina short alison welcome to the show. Thank you landis. It's great to be here with you on chris. Chris welcome thank you very much. It's wonderful to be him. Yeah congratulations to both of you on the publication of europe poetry books. Thank you yes. Listen to what we've got planned today is going to be a lot of fun. We've got lots of poetry poetry readings and conversation about poetry. But first we're going to talk with the allison and chris about their past and how they got From there to here sore chris. Since you read. I will start with you. Tell us a little bit about your journey. That landed you as a teacher at University of north carolina charlotte. What was it that led to that. Well i grew up in southern california and was fortunate Parents who supported me a great deal in my creativity and I when i went to college and undergraduate I had a wonderful Mentor and creative. Writing teacher george graham. Maybe she was very young and Enthusiastic new teacher and very very encouraging and I had taken creative writing workshops earlier With a gentleman who had been a radio script writer. Norman corwin and so i felt very grounded in You know i early attempts to be oppo and so It was a natural progression to Go from that to getting an mfa. And then there were a couple of years of instability. And then finally i came to my first job is in murray kentucky and west kentucky and Then when my first book was accepted. I came to charlotte. I and what about your journey had you end up in charlotte in some. Why is it a similar to chris. Journey on Both christian i grew up in southern california so Not maybe like an hour away from each other But i didn't at all i would be a poet I always wanted to be a writer. And i was of course a big reader But i discovered poetry later in college. i went to a small college called lewis and clark up in portland oregon which a really beautiful place and studied briefly with The poet mary sheba's to is Brilliant and incredibly as teacher and just a fabulous poet And certainly she. She sort of opened me up to this to this whole world in this whole way of sort of making your life around poems reading them in wanting to write them and so light. Light chris than i went to graduate school. I went to school in the mid west and then from there ended up here in charlotte. So it's been an eastward movement on since since growing up in california. Yes so what were your impressions of charlotte when you arrive. 'cause you're coming from the west coast. Come charlotte chris have achieved starting with you. When i first got to charlotte i was just so surprised. And happy to see such a luscious Floral atmosphere i came for my job interview at the very beginning of march and so i saw spring kind of emerging and it was just so beautiful. I really was just stunned. And my first thought was This looks like a wallace stevens poem. Wallace stevens probably my favorite american poet and his poems are full of collar and Pictorial excitement and charlotte really looked like that. So i just thought this looks like a really beautiful place to live and it was kind of smaller newsouth city but a small place somewhat like the college towns that i was used to living in and so i was excited. My first teaching experience have been in murray kentucky which is not really the south and so to go. Deeper into the south was very exciting to me. So if you have you lose your job. At shaw chamber commerce will probably want you to talk alison. When did you come to charlotte. I came here in I moved here in august of two thousand thirteen and my first visit was just a couple of months earlier. I flew out with my partner to To find an apartment and my first impression was also very very lush It was the height of summer. The trees were enormous. Oh tall and full and the cicadas were going wild and it was. It was hot as can be you know so. It was a first impression of kind of great extremes the heat the lushness felt tropical like chris described And i just love it. Our apartment is sort of on the second floor surrounded by trees. So i always felt like i was sort of in a treehouse since moving here And maybe that's also why they're just a lot of trees happening in my phone's on but it made quite an impression. I grew up in charlotte's. Take some of this for granted but when i go other places that don't have the tree cover you know Miss it and i come back. And i love walking through the neighborhoods with the trees lining the streets and that kind of thing. So that's that's nice thing say charlotte Let's do this. We're gonna talk about your books today. You're gonna read from them. let's start alison with you and talk about sway off for just a moment You know we're going to kind of go through some of the themes of the books and talk about the books themselves but the first of all the start with a title swail way on swell is a word that i have long loved. I like the sound of it. it's sort of strangeness to sort of to me suggest something about water but it's not a very common word It primarily means a kind of marshy place where land and water are mixing and meeting But it also has some less common meanings as well including shade or a depression or a cool place. The cold and even a very old usage on as a verb it can mean to move or sway from side to side So in the book swail. There's a lot of moments of land and water meeting and mixing and often becoming confused. So for instance sailors at sea would hallucinate the ocean as a field Speakers on land would also sort of long for the water and wish or it Old ancient forests fall into the ocean thousands of years ago on from shifting tectonic plates and then suddenly reemerge again with erosion and time passing by. So i'm interested in that blurring confusion and to me To me that blurring captures something. I think of human experience to where Intense emotion can feel radically disruptive or. You're not sure what is around you. Where the land is where. The water is Kind of dissociation between mind and body as there might be A mixing of land and water. So else what. What informs us work in your personal life You know this. This attraction to landscapes in the natural world Something you grew up with something. You visited something you experienced absolutely. I've always been really drawn to landscapes to being outside and even though there's a lot of water in the book I love being by the ocean It didn't necessarily go and see the ocean very much as it child But i often went into the mountains I grew up city small city called pasadena near la. And it's just below the foothills So i would spend a lot of my youth Running and hiking up in those hills. And i just even to this day when i go back it. It puts me into this space. That is more alert. I feel more awake alive but also template if so in landscape is always just really been important When i studied up in oregon and lived and worked in portland on whenever i could get to the beach. Whenever i could get to the mountains it always had such an effect on me And that's such a city where it feels like. The natural world is encroaching in a pond the urban life There are so many trees. They're very different from charlotte more evergreens But it's it's a beautiful place beautiful country they're the the seascape and The beaches a little bit different Little than they are on the east coast. You know with the big logs that come down the big rivers and end up in the ocean end up on the shore up. Shift minute chris Let's talk about the title of your book oath being a former lawyer. I think i might have seen one thing and that. I'm sure there's else that's coming coming to the fore here and that talking about the title oath well. I wanted to use a title. That really kinda emphasized the vocal element i think of. My poems is being very Musical in a way and very sort of voice oriented as being images stick and so the title seemed appropriate in that sense But actually it has a deeper Meaning really in terms of the book. there's a Very influential American poets who's a very experimental. John ashbery and his second book of poetry is his most experimental. And it's called The tennis court oath and The the title poem in my book sort of has buried references to that book but I wanted to. I don't know anyone would ever understand If i weren't saying it I wanted to sort of Indicate in some way. that My poems are in my mind related to his work. Although there are very different formerly and not experimental but So all those kind of came together and the choice of the title and your work here in this book of you're exploring a lot of themes involve family yet. Yes in fact. The opening read Involved your mother. Let's let's talk about that for just a minute Maybe you can use that to talk a little bit about what you're exploring in this book. Yes i think. This book is being really a continuation of my previous books. Really my whole writing life and so i Had a lot of Dramatic family experiences. When i was young. my my younger brother was murdered when he was fifteen and i was eighteen and my parents had a very dramatically. Terrible marriage My father was gay at a time when coming from the sort of pre stonewall era Very complicated and so all of that. It affected me very much and at the same time. I was like so many teenagers. I was just very much in love with the arts music especially Very engaged in all of that and When i discovered poetry The the modernist poets wallace stevens all those poets were so What people read. And the made a very. I made very easy connection between my aesthetic Interest and excitement and that kind of poetry And sort of a generation that i grew up in was very much influenced by what we call the confessional poets sylvia plath and I liked that poetry a lot. But it wasn't my favorite. What i really liked was the The poetry of poets like elliott stevens. And then a lot of really wonderful poetry and translation and so all of those things came together The the dramatic family experience What what. I was feeling about art in general. And then those Those poetic influences. Yeah it's like you're doing You're you're really diving into some difficult life experiences that your mother went through in this first poem. And then you're you know you're you're supporting how she sort of came through that. Some extent by becoming an advocate and Finding her grace toward the end. Yeah i wrote this poem in After she passed away. And i felt happy that i was able to write an elegy for my wonderful mother who had such a difficult life and then i thought oh it's only a little poem compared to the largeness in the The sorta tragic and victorious Dimensions of her life. But i thought well. That's the best i can do is very nice and so alison. You're opening poem that you read. I've written myself into a tropical glow. Where did you first find yourself on a tropical glow right. I actually found myself in one through reading. And what i find so fascinating is how the title which is a quotation from darwin He wrote in a letter to his sister when he was about twenty two. I've written myself into a tropical glow. He also was sort of brought into this state on this kind of ecstatic Euphoria through reading He was anticipating plan voyage to the canary islands. And yet he wasn't there yet right on so you reading a lot about the tropics. He was immersing himself in the naturalist alexander. Von humboldt s- descriptions of south america. He hadn't yet gone to the canary islands. He was he was not at all in a tropical place He was just reading about it. And so i found that really fascinating too because although charlotte is very lush. It's not quite the tropics and wasn't quite what i was imagining here When thinking about the home. And so i i guess i'm really interested in how much imagination and longing for place in thinking about place can create a kind of Emotional state Kind of it's something. That i i recognize myself that i'm often enthralled by the idea of a landscape One that i might come across the reading about it or remembering being in a landscape I find that. I can write a lot more about california and oregon having not been there for a while. You kind of a space in my imagination and i i can go to that you really draw in from the beginning with this image of the foster essence. The c is laced with it. Little galaxies afloat in the swelling. You ever been on the water at nine early in the morning. You'd say that you get that visual polls you into very almost meditative kind of environment. Surreal to some extent screen. Let's move on to some more poetry here alson. We're going to start with you. This time and believe the poem is calendar calendar yes Which is an maybe not very well known term. It describes the kind of mind body sickness afflicted at sea it's related to scurvy but it's some effects are more psychological rather than physical and Sailors who were experiencing calendar would hallucinate. The open ocean as a field or meadow and become very obsessed with wanting to be in that meadow and would very often jump out into the onto their deaths so so this calendar are. You shouldn't like to think of them. But i do the man who spent their days as sailors pacing the decks of their ships. Who sometimes would get a certain kind of sickness. That made the c a field. How much the mind wants land after so much. Stretch of water wants the most land ish thing field thick with which grass or blond wheat a meadow silent but for the ticking of insects it must have felt like bliss that first sight of the field so wide like a yawn that never closes some say ships carried tufts of earth onboard to bathe those afflicted or when they finally reached shore. Crest sailors faces down into the dirt from colin tura. Spanish for fever had a fierce. Look i know. I shouldn't like to think of those men. But what it must have felt like the field green and glinting in that sun a few seconds in the air before they drop into those radio waves the unsure and grasses their bear unsinkable sway. Alson beautiful i. I'm just curious if you ever been deep sea fishing. Have you ever been on a boat where you're far from land and you can't see anything but the water around you. I have been on boats. But i have not been far from land. I barely want to have been. I don't know why is this This feeling felt so much like i had experienced it before But alas i have not been far enough on a boat chris. you're next. Pour me that you're going to from from your book is still in the family theme. Tell us a little bit about to have a choice. This is really a poem about my father's life. And i think of it as being sort of the twin to The the poem. I readily about my mother. And it's it's a double the length of the poem and really just use details from his life. Both my parents grew up in oklahoma and so That's sort of referred to here and just about my relationship with him. You know I thought that i would write a memoir about being gay and having a gay father. But as soon as i finish his poem i thought. Well that's all. I'm going to write about that So and i recognize that some of the language in my poems can be a little bit rough But i just hope that it's clear that those kinds of tonality are seen as being necessary to bring out the deeper emotional experiential and imaginative issues. That my poems are really about and not Some kind of value thing. That's the way. I took it when i read it so Whenever you're ready to have a choice. I balanced on the edge of what would be my father's death bed. My body fifty. No three million years old. His delicate grey desiccated face his beatty twinkling eyes blades. In that handsome had he could do algebra favorite music. Stan kenton boost onis transcriptions. Once he described hearing waves of sound at the palladium will never talk about it. I thought why we both just masturbate with men and how i'd hope to relate to his history tortured on a farm during the dust bowl the depression and thereby gand perhaps not being open honest out quoting blaming all your fucking troubles on your wife writing the family myth that she was crazy trash if she complained she wasn't getting any sex. He beat her meet black and blue but he couldn't stop cruising observatory parking. Lots essentially the doctor told your dad's starving. An option is a feeding tube to his stomach. He side no. I don't wanna tube. I'm okay with what's happening. It's good to have a choice. Pitcher my par- mother writing spaceships dehydrated comatose spilled across the kitchen floor in panorama in moonlight on a beach. He laughed watching me track into the dark rainforest. Chortling like a tree frog sunday morning when the nurse called. I clung like my refrigerator. Magnet monet's water lilies to a friend a candle sunk in the blackpool behind. My closed eyelids an orphan now. An only child childless worthless. I swear people poets worry bang our planets. Drying drowning dying were terrified of scarcity. To tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth to the future you. I guess so. Help me so as i'm listening to you. Read this chris. And i'm thinking back to the tunnel oath and you're talking about truth I'm just wondering how hard it was. in your life For both you and your father to come to these truths that you're talking about in this particular book. It's very difficult. A big struggle very took a lot of in therapy to sort of sort out the strategy of it into And my father was very communicative in general with me. But not about these key issues and When he passed away. I just felt the absence of the kinds of Honest conversations we could have had But you know his life is very complicated and it's hard to talk about it those difficult things with a child. I'm sure so I will like these are these are wonderful. I'm gonna. I'm gonna do this. We're gonna take a short break and when we come back. We're going to get into another couple of raids with allison chris. We've got the riding life segment and we've got Some foul rates So listeners please stay with us. I to share some information with you better. Four organizations that are important. Players are literally community and They're also supporters in the podcast spark publications charlotte charlotte writer's club and north carolina. Riders network sparked provocations is one of our early supporters. They have been sending me some wonderful authors with some well-designed books. They are an award-winning independent. Publishing firm helps authors bring their work to life were strategically with their officers to complete their main scripts designed their covers books for marketability rich to their aspirations and congress numbers proof-read managed options market and much more find out more about how you can publish a nonfiction or with sport of experienced team. Checkout spark publications dot com charlotte lit otherwise known as charlotte center from literary arts organization. Which i'm a member. It's a nonprofit arts center whose mission is to celebrate the arts but educating engaging writers raiders two classes conversations and community i really enjoy participating in those classes They see themselves due to a valued invite vital part of charlotte parts community. They've become a premier creative writing center for the region and find out more about them and how to participate at charlotte dot more for ninety eight years. The charlotte liars club has continued to offer supportive environment in the greater charlotte community. Now i was a board member of that organization for a few years. Recently really enjoyed Participating that way also in their regular meetings their contests in their community organizations they offer what newsletter monthly meetings speakers now speaker chairman to take groups. Of and mike's and the author writing workshops and writing contests and find out more about Shot rogers club at charlotte club dot. More i'm also a member on riders network They offer six annual competitions three annual conferences. And i think i've attended off through those many online classes. A critiquing and editing services for their members they serve over fourteen hundred members in north carolina and beyond all genres and all levels of experience with all manner publishing credits to find out. More about the northbound rise network Check out. Nc writers dot work as a writer and a reader. I have benefited from participating in all three of these writing organizations sean riders club charlotte met and nor colorado's network. It's been a great experience for me. I also enjoy collaborating spark publications meeting and interviewing their authors work. If you'd like to check out what each of these Supporters has the offer Good our show notes The bottom and you'll find information about each one links and also the promo listeners. I'm back with christopher davis Alison and we're talking about their poaching books Oath and swear. And we've got Cup more readings. We're going to do here before we get into the writing life discussion Chris has got a piece called adleman. And allison's got a piece called sway. Oh which you know. She's got a book called soil. So that s good. She's got a poem by the same name. But we're gonna start out with chris with asthma. Chris a little bit about this poem that you're about to read well The title is the ancient sanskrit brahmanic word for soul basically and So i really wanted in this poem to just sort of Create a picture of Physical experience leading into spiritual experience. So it just goes from being in a relaxed summer Location to Just ticking emotion imagination to a a little bit of a more sort of spiritual place and so it's just aspect of So many different kinds of religion That make that transition and so that's really what this poem about atman. I fought my body redolent of coconut my sweaty oily selfish pig. My horny dirty little spot on time. My heavy but fun burden awake baked down. As if to feed the bears atop a picnic tables hot hard pine overhead a dome of leaves neon green noon suffused shaking paisley shadows cool frail spectral dry caressing my closed lids tracing circles. X's has me between phones thinking splinters jabbing my bareback. Wow this bauer echoes a basilica a womb. Aboul my weird queer soul. A spark my first light. My birth that after image held tended red to deep within this flaming skull aiming past the sun prefers to use lust secretly quietly. The boy that can enjoy invisibility loves to project joy higher zap apart. Tomorrow's clouds trying to break out lightning rain. Nice and you've got the an italics here. The boy that can enjoy invisibility yes. Those are lines taken from James joyce's ulysses In the very first Part of it The poet stephen delicious thinking about the death of his mother and I love that book so much. And so That's just a very beautiful passage in ulysses. And so i borrowed those lines. And i put them in italics. People wouldn't think that. I just be stolen them. Us great after all. The book does say oath right. I mean you got okay. So thanks for that. We're going to do Allison you got your point here. Swail you've talked about the meaning of soil from the beginning anything else you wanna say to set this particular poem up. Just add on this poem in particular grew from a specific place specific landscape on in two thousand eighteen from about too early. May i was artists resident At the center for art and ecology on which is perched on just above the salmon river estuary on in oregon on north central. Kind of oregon. And it's really remote place I was in a cabin. I had my little attached a writing studio on but for most days i was alone Took a lot of walks and This poem grew from kind of accumulated observations. I had made that place over those three and a half months And i felt quite sure that i was going to write a poem titled swail During my time there and so. I just waited. I observed i walked. I looked around a lot Wrote notes down and eventually eventually the poem came. So i felt very lucky But so so. This is swell in my winter by the c. i. fashioned a new habit each day walking to crowley creek through mud and leafless alder their branches cupped by the plush green of mosses enrolling beds of sword fern who serrated edges thrust extravagantly into cold and humid air. The creek fed the estuary which in turn fed the sea. And i like to see how far up the tide had reached or how far it had receded. The marshy banks transformed by that lunar clockwork on. Which my hours turned water called slack like the grip on a rope loosened. At which point the river would swell and still the brackish tied having expanded the limits of the creek submerged grasses swaying the drowned hair a doll cold and hard and clear. The water looked like the creek. I felt in me day after day. I watched goals float like wooden toys. Rocking on unsteady. Surface and steadied barnacles clasped to rocks the shell white skeletons of small shoreline animal's discarded lens of driftwood swail also meaning a depression a low place in the land. The sour smell wants. The water has drawn back unmasking river sludge and battered see debris luminous blue belowa with their fan like sales hollow carapaces of crabs picked up and cleaned. When i- swail. I cannot tell border from border land from water. I feel the lome of day. Crumble washed up. What's left an accumulation of silt or sand sifted rubbery tendrils of seaweed dotted with notches. Like tastebuds inflamed. Sometimes i think love is swail and sometimes sadness. How each comes in like a tide. How each alters the bodies beneath heart complete come out of your grave light. It was decades. Before i was alive when estuary was diked to make more land for pasture no longer water than but fields of sewn grasses for the cows to eat how they too must have tasted it. The memory of water buried in the new green shoots the verdict. Nascient still tasting faintly a brine. Nice house and May wanna go take a walk on a beach somewhere hotel. Let's do this. Let's talk riding life just a little bit With both of you and since we're doing poetry today. I think we should start there I wanna talk poetry teaching first poetry I'll start chris chris. What draws you to this To this form of artistic expression well. I think poetry is by far the most emotionally engaged in intense kind of activity that i know and i just think it's incredible when you're even reading poetry but writing poetry The way that the active creative engagement and imaginative contact just Pushes you into new rooms. Like like Like love like a relationship with another person really. I think poetry just It it's kind of. It has a quality of magic to me in the way that it transforms the given into the new Just the way that poetry is really sorta the opposite of journalism where The task of the writer is just to record what is seen and what is known. I think poetry does the opposite of that it it. The task of poems is to create something new. And it's just very very transformative. I think Allison what about you. What what is it that you love about writing poetry. I love what. Chris said that sense of you. Know with each new poem both as a reader and as a writer. You're going into this new place and there is mystery nadan and transformative power and Also no easy answers. So i i really like that. Even though poems are rhetorical and can have arguments and prove and show things that they also are incredibly complex That they kind of. I think lie in spaces where there are not Were there just aren't easy. Answers for things So i i love the way that Accom might grow from some some thought or feeling. That's not fully formed or some image. That sort of is haunting the mind. I have to sort of work on the poem to to figure out why that caught my attention right why. It's kind of stayed in my mind for so long and i. I love that. In the poems i love reading most tend to be ones that. Make me feel as if i'm experiencing another minds interior life unfolding and not as such an intimate yet really magical. Chris described Space to be in and to have your heart feel like at stopping to have your breath catch. just from. Reading someone's palm is really a beautiful thing so enjoy listening to On the show here and listen to other people read their poetry. Because i don't always know when i'm reading it to myself. You know what the author the poet intense but to but to hear you read it. And i'm watching along as you do okay. I see now where we're going here. It's very interesting but picking up on this theme of no easy answers. A little bit of a process related question. I'd like to know where your muses hang out So chris starting with you. Well i never have inspiration. I just start free writing. Well actually. it's not true Something catch my my. I may be a sound of a century experience. Like seeing something and i think. Oh that's good material. And i'll i'll write it down but i don't know as alison was saying. I don't know why i liked it so much And i don't have an idea of what the the the future poem is going to be a quote about in quote And then I just worked in material just Free associated Up ideas Work on description to try to get as much as much presence from the first experience onto the pages possible and just it takes a long time just to stay in that creative process until Something starts to happen. And i feel like okay. This poem is really coming into its own And So yeah it's very exploratory. Saas great nelson for you. I get the sense that Your music of followed you around to the coast and into these places with these beautiful landscapes but can you write in other locations as well or how how do you. How does your process. Yeah yeah i mean. Place as described is a big part of it I think that walking. Especially when i can be somewhere pretty far from the city Helps create helps sort of sieve. Out a the mess in my head makes me more alert Allowed to notice more But i also in really Poem lot of homes come to me through reading Sort of an exploration but through through books through language I have a long sequence in my book that that thinks about the extinct dodo bird And of course. I could never see the dodo or go to where it where it lived. Marisha which is far off in the indian ocean And so i. I sort of saw an image of the dodo which we all know And it sparked something in my imagination. And then i read everything i could about it including really old facsimiles of tax from the seventeenth century old drawings of it so in a way i was sort of wandering through those old historical texts as in some ways. I might wander through Seaside but in each in each experience either. Walking or reading. I'm sort of slowly accumulating Different details or on building upon something that that caught in my mind to start with you. Teach poetry and creative writing Chris thank you probably taught those before. Sure courses you're teaching now. But i like to talk to two guests who appear on the show about their teaching when the teachers because it seems like you store up these life experiences and then you get the chance to share them with young writers. And i'm just curious. What are some of the things you tell your students On the first class and then on the last day class. Chris will start with you. That's a good question Well i tell them. This is a chance to share with each other our deepest most really To bring out our our interior already to ourselves and to Discuss the pungent progress with our classmates And We need to be brave. That it's It's it's frightening. There's no way around it And extremely exciting. And so i just say just be patient with yourself It's it may not be but we'll see as this three month semester goes on that You'll you'll feel that you're Growing from this Sort of vulnerability and excitement great. How about you asked. Yeah i. I love chris what you said about bravery I think it requires that ought to be in a place so not only write poems but share them with others And i i think. I tried to start with describing how that bravery doesn't need to require any great gregarious feats But that it is brave simply to to notice on the world around you that your daily life And the memories that sort of permeate that daily life that those are very much the stuff of poetry on and i that that that lend students certain kind of confidence on knowing that their life in all of its many different parts is very much the subject of poems and that only they have that unique way of talking about that life both the imaginative life and the lived life So i hope to say you know that we that we had these months together. as poets. What did you teach i. I really love love teaching. And i think i loved being student. So deeply I wasn't always the best student. Of course but i loved Being students i love the way that Certain teachers were able to make me feel as if the world had just opened up right there in the classroom And it's a really amazing thing to be in a space with Sort of whole swath of different people. making something new right there. You now making something new in how you're thinking about a text or how you're thinking about the world. I always wanted to be like those those teachers that moved me so much. I'm really far from that But i i like that feeling that you're creating something with other minds you know in the moment And i love the relationship. I have with my students reading their palms coaxing encouraging them. Along helping them feel like they have something something to say something to share not feeling alone in that process a chris you and older than alison. You've been teaching for quite a while and I'm just curious about why you've stayed with it. You know what is it that draws you to teaching and why why do you love it. Oh i think so. Much of what alison said is exactly how i feel about it about teaching and we really have such a beautiful chance to see students at Just their most. In a kind of intelligence that i think is just beautiful to witness and to encourage and Even students who might not go on to become creative writers after they've taken the class Still it's just wonderful to see what this kind of educational experience Means to them and they're very appreciative of it. Always and I think just knowing how it Will affect their Intellectual development as life goes on is is very rewarding. Let's do a little reflection with this next question here all riders whether they realize it or not are learning every time they publish something the further. You go along the more you learn even if you don't realize that you're learning but you've both been published You've been writing for a while. You're teaching if you could tell your younger rider self something valuable that you've learned through this journey. That help her. Allison what would it be. I think to be more patient. I mean i'm very slow as a writer. it's it. Takes me a long time to write a palm in a really long time to write this book But to not be hard on myself about that on to be patient and to focus on the concentrate ones energy on on. What's most important right on. There could be a fair amount of distraction in our world and A fair amount of distraction with worries about publishing or non or this or that kind of award but That that of course is just noise. it's not part of that really intimate creative experience. And so i i would tell myself to kinda like calm down and just stuff does just be patients and Hip doing what you love. Yeah that's great advice chris. If you could avast the younger chris About something you've learned. That would help the younger chris In his writing journey to be well. Let's see i would say to be patient to see that all life experience in all reading experience goes into the poem eventually just not right away. i used to think. Oh god i'm wasting my time. I can't be reading this history book or or spending hours riding my bicycle. Maybe that was bit if it wants to time but but finally it all comes together into upon but just that the poem is the ultimate And the rare event That i think To to just really honor the the daytime. They're they're really rare times when a poem does come together and all their life experience does cohere into something but that it will happen and That everything you think infield ultimately gets to be part of your your pollen. That's good advice. we've got Tony abbott who is on the show. This season he which just inducted into the north carolina. Leary hall of fame and Just just a great poet and asked him a similar question. He talked about the most important thing that a poet can do is live life because that's where the inspiration comes from to right and you just talked about that chris and you have to some extent. He's talk about patients. Because you've got to be patient you get to live life you've got You get to experience. Those things are going to help you. Then right which you are gonna right whether it's in poetry or prose or whatever. It may be so. I will just a just foul couple questions here before we do. Our final reads era. Allison what do you hope. Readers take away from from your book soil all my choice. I mean the the most amazing thing would be if any reader feels That sort of uptake of breath. That i sometimes feel when i read a poem. I love that firmament you might feel maybe a little a little bit less alone perhaps or just that Maybe for a moment you see something in a new way but that would be gift screwed. How about you chris. Radio feel that This this book These poems were sincerely written right wrong. They might not feel entirely comfortable with some of them. They might not It might not directly connect with their life experience. Just that as a as a As a writing project it. was not Conceived of and carried out in a an artificial way sunsets and then as alison shows to feel less alone From that experience yeah. You might be surprised at Who does connect with. Sometimes we are surprised by the number of people who say you were speaking my language there. You know i had that same kind of experience and i kind of bring the world closer together. To some extent people are less alone and the circumstances. So we'll look we got to final reads here What from alison one from chris. We're going to start with the Chris it's Allergy for an alcoholic. Old quyen. I love the title. It sounds exciting already Do a little quick setup for that and then we to hear the point yes This poem is a little bit longer than the other ones. I've read and It started i had this experience. I had this friend to with you. My drank allied and then he got liver. Cancer passed away and i went to his funeral and all of this happened. When i knew that my father would soon move to charlotte. His health was in very wasn't he wasn't doing very well healthwise and so i think in a way this poem was sort of a Prelude to what. I was soon to deal with with my father and so And then i finished the poem after my father here and died so it's I think I was just this this experience With my friend sort of connected to my life. But i was able to have a little bit more. I think. Probably imagine it to freedom because it wasn't directly family relationship allergy for an alcoholic. old queen. travel agent. You probably were just a situational acquaintance yet. I felt sad as you died on a wednesday on a crunchy costly hospice room bed. Your collapsed cheeks that fake bright bronze of tanning lotion. Your corny tresses dyed blonde ludicrously. Defiantly very day. The day you passed away snaking across the white blubbery pillow. Your is flat still your mouth a whole. You can't keep trying to fill now. I look down at your clear plastic wristband and it told me you were when i'm sixty four. A little older than i guessed nobody needing you nobody feeding you except to my greedy shock. Your brand new best friend. Your bipolar hairdresser. Your primary caregiver your sole beneficiary grabbing your delicate wrist a squirrel bouncing along the amber leaf limb of whatever variety of tree. That was out there. I told you i love you. Not the ultimate hello dolly regular. You always drank half price understanding being triple tipping. I was tripping. When you told me bluntly you had months well weeks to live. You wept your whole life. You had felt crucified. Renting from your christian mother unable to come out till she kicked off then you seized the day enjoyed champagne like churchill every evening old fashioned manhattan's slower comfortable screws against the wall. I bowed into your yellow lacoste. Golf shirt pushed my pounding head through the tough little crocodile. Right above your heart toward your liver. My brain is in wagons with screaming. Kids spinning wildly on river. Ice cracking at your memorial. The minister got the kind of cancer. Wrong bemoan this gorge of lymphoma mentioned the tenants of our theology though. Nobody there believe a word of it. No not the air traffic controller. Not the buyer's agent and certainly not him. The man of cloth himself who plastered pressure is his friends for blowjobs. A disc jockey balanced a small green airplane gin bottle on the marble urn holding your ashes. I wonder whether in silvery don's that emerald glows afterwards stumbling among the cold grey cement materials of the parking deck. I couldn't find my toyota camry so pressing the black button on our keychain. I made my baby honk. Honk his sobbing. Echoing incessantly like the voice of the old witch inside the room across the hall from yours. Barking baqi becky becky becky becky until i saw them the red blit. Brake lights blinking. And with my thumb. I pressed again. Shut dot fucking honking up the penultimate. Sounds of your rough croak. Your word can't do much about dying fading from living memory slowly us wonderful. Chris thank you for reading that alison. You've got one left as well. It's house among the graves. Yes so there's a figure. I named alice who appears throughout the book In different settings from key west where. This poem is set to the cloisters museum in new york to mountain forest and neighborhoods. So of course. I think of alice's a kind of version of myself on but also a character in therefore apart apart from me in this poem She's in an old cemetery in key west florida and she's taking a and the air the light the setting But also thinking about history and thinking about the dead In this poem appears at the very end of the third section of the book before the final section about the dodo. And i've always felt that the character of alice's sort of dissolving into Into the poems about that. Extinct bird The emphasis sort of her sendoff So alice among the graves the headstones they crumble they buckle and lean. It must be how things here. Each mouthful of salt. The cemetery tries its best to be serene with its benches and historic plaques. The palm trees that rise on thin a nodded spines although squat iron gates hemming in family plots. They can't keep anything out. Not the lizards or birds not the brazen carpet of weeds. Much worse than storms are the gut heavy iguanas crashing down from trees. They like to nest under the graves heaving accordion like legs needy and strange scuttle between the concrete blocks and lay small sees of eggs in the crumbs half a mile away on white street civil war soldiers killed by yellow fever lie unmarked in a yard a bevy of roosters crowing above them in the grass kicking up dirt in leaves. What the dead wouldn't give her. Something promised starboard or boat sank the bleach tied streaming in she. Also you've been to key west. Yes i was very lucky to go down there for a conference. I don't know four or five years ago something like that. Yeah the key lampe right. I didn't coal. You can't get a key west keelan passer. You have to go back. You have to get back. We'll look. I enjoyed having both of you chris. And alison on the show today listeners. There's gonna be information. The show notes about both of them links to their books. There's going to be some photographs More information about them as As a poet's. I just want to thank both of you all for being on charlotte readers. Podcast thank you linda q. It's been great great. Well that's it for today. Another found author giving voice to the words next tuesday. We'll have another in-depth episode with readings and conversations about the written word and the writing life of a local or regional author who before then be on the lookout for another under the covers episode where we do much the same thing we do here but quicker and sometimes away from the studio because there are just too many good authors. Not enough town if you like what we're doing. Please consider leaving a short written review on apple podcasts or the podcast platform of your choice. Because when you do our authors voices travel much farther and wider in podcast land. And if you're inclined to help us help authors give voice to the written words and you'd like some member only contact cultivated by our authors and me is our thanks. Please consider becoming a member support. You can find out how to become a member supporter and more about today's show and all previous episodes at charlotte readers. Podcast dot com new. Keep up with news about the show by joining our email us and engaging with us on social media we promise not to spain me because well that takes too much time and if you do join our email list we'll give you a free e book written by mid. Thank you for listening. We really appreciate until next week on landis way for charlotte readers podcast charlotte readers. Podcast is a member of the twin cities. Podcast network powered by ortho carolina now offering video visits. So you can take control of your orthopedic care from the comfort of your home schedule online at ortho. Carolina dot com ortho carolina you improved.

charlotte chris swail alison Christopher davis Wallace stevens christopher davis oregon charlotte mecklenburg library charlotte raiders air global radio Vinny allison alison hutch new issues press state university of north caro david trinidad Pacey rectal Ripta rod remington
Georgia Republicans give themselves the power to overturn election results they don't like

MSNBC Rachel Maddow (audio)

48:24 min | 4 months ago

Georgia Republicans give themselves the power to overturn election results they don't like

"The show we did nine eastern on msnbc as far as the names go. This story came with a really good one. His name is aaron langeveldt. Aaron link langeveldt mister. Excuse me aaron. Van langeveldt. I forgot the extra syllable. Mr van. Langeveldt is young republican lawyer in november. He was a member of the michigan board of state canvassers. Which is the group of people in michigan. That's in charge of certifying elections. Every state has to do that every four years when we pick a president that people vote the votes get counted and the results get certified in each state. It's routine as far as civics goes. It's actually a little dull which is in its own way awesome but it's critical until all fifty states certified the results of their election. We don't get a new president and perhaps this is overstating the built a little bit but last november. This guy with the awesome name. Erin van langeveldt from michigan. He kind of saved democracy for all of us on zoom. We have cleared diggle duty to certify the result of the election as shown by the return that we're giving you us cannot and should not go beyond that john adams once that your government of lot not men and this board needs to adhere to that principle here today. This board must dude start to uphold the new law and comply with our legal duty certify that the election will be supporting emotion. I i will be supporting the motion. By which american democracy was rescued from the brink that low keys zoom meeting happened on november. Twenty third just a few weeks. After their twenty twenty presidential election joe biden had definitively been called the winner. Donald trump had lost biden had one critical swing states like wisconsin and pennsylvania. Mr van langeveldt home state of michigan trump. Though you may recall said that he had not lost the election. He said that biden really hadn't won. He'd one trump said the election results to be notified. He should be declared the winner in a whole bunch of states that he in fact lost. And it's crazy enough in american democracy that he said that publicly starting on election night but then he started acting on it too and it was actually looking back at it. A careful pretty methodical coordinated plan to try to get the election overturned to not just thump his chest and yell about it but actually try to do it and yeah we all remember. The grammatically incorrect misspelled lawsuits and the rage tweets. And the rudy giuliani of at all. But there was something else that was more methodical and more dangerous. Going on to let stay michigan for second. The the election in michigan in november wasn't close biden one michigan more than one hundred and fifty thousand votes but to win the presidency to get enough electoral votes to stay in the white house. Trump needed michigan and more states like michigan in his column and so he tried to get michigan overturned a few weeks after the election but before the results were formerly certified in michigan for his loss was thereby legally set in stone. Trump did what he could he tried. He enacted a plan to try to get the election. Results in michigan overturned. He summoned the top two. Republicans in the michigan state legislature. He brought them to washington the white house to try to get them to join his scheme. To overturn the legitimate election results in michigan part of the plan was to get the state canvassing board in michigan to delay the certification of the election results based on the president's up at voter fraud delaying that certification would cast doubt on the legitimacy of the results in that would fuel trump's game to get the canvassing board to ultimately come in and notify the election results overturned the election declare him the winner. What donald trump wanted this republican state lawmakers to do when he summoned them to dc was to lean on the republicans who were on the state canvassing board to get them to follow. Trump's directives to vote to delay the certification of the election result in michigan thereby helping his scheme to alternately the results in that state he planned lots of different ways to do this in lots of different states. That's how he was going to go after in michigan. And when you you spell. I mean we all lived through it. But it's still crazy sounding right you spell it out like that. He was really trying to do that. It's nuts what's even nuttier. Though is how close it came to working. There's four members on that state. Canvassing board michigan democrats to republicans. You'd need a majority to vote together. An order to certify. That biden won the election in that state before that. Vote the republican state party chair the republican national party chair and of course the head of the republican party the president of the united states all weighed in and told both of those republicans on that canvassing board that they needed to vote against certification. They needed to refuse to admit that. Joe biden had been the legitimate winner of the election in michigan and one of those republicans want along. He didn't vote to certify biden as the winner in michigan the other one however told the president know that young republican lawyer aaron van langeveldt he was the only republican on that board who stood up to the president and to the chair of the national republican party and the chair of the state party. He sat and spoke quietly on zoom but thereby stood up and save democracy ton of power behind his words and what he did. He joined the two democrats on. The board voted to certify the legitimate results of the election in michigan thereby putting the final nail in the coffin in the president's scheme to pressure michigan republicans to overturn the election for him. And if it wasn't for that one guy in michigan on zoom proverbially standing up to the president. Things might have gone very differently. It's one thing to know that trump didn't accept the election results in wanted to overturn them. It's another thing to see how close he came to doing it. and what. The president did in michigan trying to get republican state election officials to void the election and declare him the winner. Instead wasn't of course the only place he tried it most famously. He did it in georgia. President leaned heavily on the secretary of state in georgia republican. Brad raffin burger to the top election official in the state. He told referenced burger that ravensburger needed to find trump around twelve thousand votes. Just enough votes to undo. Biden's win their declare. Donald trump the winner say recalculated ravensburger also got another call though from the president's ally in the united states. Senate republican senator. Lindsey graham of south carolina senator. Graham also called robbins burger and told him he needed to toss out the mail in ballots from some georgia counties. He know those mail in ballots the one. That's skewed heavily for biden yet. Chuck all those in the trash. Then redo the count. Nancy who comes out on top. That's what lindsey graham told him he needed to do. The president's white house chief of staff mark meadows even flew to georgia unannounced to stand there in the building menacingly near the vote counters while they audited the ballots in cobb county. What's the white house chief of staff doing in person looming over the audit of these ballots. I mean it was a crazy thing. We all lived through with the president and his allies. Were doing what they were really really trying to do. The election results thrown out in states. That trump lost. It wasn't just complaining about it was a effort to have republican officials in various states void or reverse or tamper with the election results to say trump one instead of biden. The state elections officials the secretaries of state. The poor ballot-counters right. These are the pressure points that the president and his allies were leaning so heavily on and in the end it didn't work but imagine if it had match if the republicans on the receiving end of all that pressure had said yes to the president. Imagine if they had actually done what he wanted. Tossed out ballots. Overruled results decertified. The election announced that donald trump had won elections that he didn't win which is what he was demanding. That's what trump wanted to do. It came down to a handful of principle. People who said. I do not have the power to do what you were asking me to do. I won't try to do it. And they stopped it from happening. We were sort of hanging by a thread there for a good few weeks. Well today. republicans found a new way to cut one of those last dangling threads tonight. The republican governor of georgia. Brian kemp has signed into law a sweeping staggering bill that undoes much of what constitutes free and fair elections in the state of georgia. It will excellent actively prevent people from accessing their constitutional right to vote in a way that will disproportionately affect poor. Americans and americans have color voters that of course tend to skew democratic and the voter suppression elements of this georgia law. That was again just signed. Tonight's now george law the voter suppression of elements to make it harder to vote. That's those things have received a lot of attention. But here's maybe the part that's even worse. What this bill will also do is codify in law the process by which donald trump tried to undo the georgia election results in twenty twenty. What he also tried to do in michigan and other states. I mean what republicans in georgia have written into this voter suppression law. That was just signed tonight. Is they have given the republicans in the state legislature the power to do in georgia. What trump was trying to do in two thousand twenty when he was trying to notify the election results and instead have himself declared the winner by mandated. This bill that just passed into law in georgia tonight the secretary of state and georgia who stood up trump's orders that he needed to find the right number of votes. An overturned the election by mandate of this bill signed into law. Tonight he will hear bye-bye removed as chair and voting member of the state election board. Which is the entity that oversees the certification of elections in georgia. That power will instead be handed to the republican controlled legislature. Who will appoint a new chair of their choosing as well as the majority of the board's members. Republicans in the georgia legislature wanted to go along with what trump was insisting. Should happen in georgia. This bill will give them the power to do that. What this bill does is it. Carves out the people inside the state government who refused to overturn the election for trump. It hands that power to a new handpicked group people friendly to the republicans in the georgia state legislature. Who wanted to go along with. What trump was demanding. The election board will also be afforded new powers under this law that will be allowed to take over any individual county election board in the state that they see fit so again republican appointed officials from the state legislature allowed to take over any counties elections operations. Any county they choose. They don't like a result in a specific county. They can t that counties election machinery and instead takeover themselves donald trump had to make threatening phone calls so you had to cook crazy conspiracy theories about suitcases filled with ballots yet to send his chief of staff to go cross his arms and looked. Meanwhile they counted the ballots. But because of this you know a dangling thread people standing up and saying no. This isn't right. Republicans couldn't actually pull off what he was trying to do. In georgia in twenty twenty. This bill just signed tonight snips that last threat it removes the guardrails that prevented trump's scheme in georgia. From working in two thousand twenty it institutionalizes the potential to overturn an election in the state of georgia at partisan insistence. And it's done kemp just signed it and while this is about georgia. This is not just about georgia. This is a national strategy that is endorsed by the republican party. The new york times reporting that the republican national committee. The national republican party has formed a brand new election integrity committee which is a group of twenty four members of the rnc newly tasked with developing legislative proposals on voting systems for the states. This election integrity committee at the national. Republican party is steered by a florida republican. Who still to this day refuses to say. That president biden was legitimately elected. He advertised ways for people to attend the january sixth rally in washington that turned into a violent attack on the capital. The new york times reporting that the republican parties in election integrity committee will be staffed by quote officials who were deeply involved in these. Stop the steel effort to overcome former president. Trump's election loss last year and who have refused more than two months after president biden's inauguration to admit publicly that his victory was legitimate so the whole crazy stop. The steel in. The election was rigged. We should overturn the results. That stuff didn't prevail did not die when trump left office. It is alive and well in the republican party and it is bearing fruit more from the times quote in arizona. Republicans are pushing for control over the rules of the state's elections in iowa. Republicans have installed harsh new criminal penalties for county elections officials who enact emergency voting rules in tennessee republican. Legislators trying to remove a sitting judge who ruled against the republican party in an election case it's happening on on the individual human level to. Do you remember erin langeveldt right. The republican lawyer in michigan who stood up to the president all by himself and refused the pressure. To overturn the election in michigan. Even when all those other republicans went along with it. Republican party in michigan refused to renominate him to his position on the state canvassing board. He will not be in charge of certifying. The results in michigan anymore replaced by somebody. Much more amenable to those schemes. Donald trump failed to overturn the election that he lost in two thousand twenty. But not for lack of trying. The republican party however seems to be energized by those efforts. They were not defeated by that failure. The republican party is still working on it. They are institutionalizing. This now from the people they elected to office to the committee's they create the bills they write and pass into law. We are here now. There is no turning back. The question is how do we meet that. Challenge for senate democrats part of the answer. The question is s one. The for the people act. Which would try to roll back. Some of the damage being done by republicans devoting rights. That bill has forty nine cosponsors in the senate forty nine out of fifty. Democratic senators have co-sponsored. That's the one democrat. Who hasn't as senator joe manchin the only democratic senator who hasn't signed on his name and support today. He explained why he said today the statement that he does not want to sign on to support this sweeping voting rights bill that will afford federal protection voting rights. He doesn't want to sign onto it unless a bunch of republicans vote for it to kind of build it protects people's right to vote. Make sure that every vote counts. That's only a value him. Unless a significant number of republicans in the united states senate agreed to vote for it as well. Just a really spell. That out with senator manchin wants is to find at least ten republican senators to vote for a bill that protects voting rights ten senators from the party. That's trying to institutionalize the right to overturn free and fair elections. If a republican doesn't win them president biden was asked today what he thought of the big voter suppression bill. That republicans just passed in georgia. That's been signed into law tonight. He said today at this press conference that he thought it was sick. Despicable he called it the most pernicious thing Broadly speaking george. Voters agree with him. A new poll in georgia showing the number of people who oppose the part of the georgia bill that allows the state legislature to remove from power state and local election officials. The percentage of people opposed to that in georgia is seventy six percent seventy percent of people in georgia oppose. The part of the bill passed tonight. That makes it easier to throw out ballots if voter casts a ballot at a wrong polling location even because they're given wrong instructions about how to vote. The bill passed tonight and georgia will make it illegal for anybody to hand out food or water to people standing in long lines waiting to vote in georgia. The percentage of people in that state who oppose that part of the bill is seventy seven percent. It's not just that the bill as an idea is radically unpopular. When you pull people on the specifics of what's in the bill it is radically radically radically unpopular. Republicans in georgia though do not care. Republicans nationally do not care. They're not trying to win a popular contest. Here who needs to be popular we. We can just make it a whole lot. Easier to overturn and election at will county votes for the democrat. Instead of the republican removed the county elections board before. They have to certify their results. Put in your own. People have them refuse to certify. Let's rerun the election or just declare that we found enough votes. We free calculated and it turns out the republican secretary of state isn't going along with a scheme to overturn the election here to put the elect to put the republican on top of an election that the democrat actually one. Well we'll take away the secretary of state's ability to stand up and do the right thing. This is done. this is law. It is on the books as of tonight in georgia waiting for joe mansion to come around and recognize. What's happening here. So the federal government can come to the rescue here with a federal law to protect voting rights. That is not going to happen. That is not going to cut it. He's thinking that republicans are going to come along and decide. They support voting rights actually while their entire party is working to undo them at a fundamental level right. This isn't rogue georgia republicans. This is a nationwide effort being helmed by people assigned to the task by the national republican party. Who come from these. Stop the steel storm. The capitol trump secretly one wing of republican politics. Ten republican senators are really gonna come over and say you know what we ought to defend voting rights there are civil rights and voting rights groups that are mobilized in georgia but so far that has not proven to be enough to stop this to push back against this kind of assault on our democracy the worst of the worst tactics that trump brought to the fight last year so that election results could be overturned if republicans didn't win. That is happening right now in georgia and apparently it's gonna take a different kind of fight to stop it. Joining us. now is already berman. He's a senior reporter. Mother jones magazine covering voting rights. He's the author of give us the ballot. The modern struggle for voting rights in america and he has been following every twist and turn of this from the beginning are thank you so much for being here. I appreciate it thank you let me ask Because i know that you are very much an expert on this. Let me ask if. I explained any of that wrong. Or if i'm getting any of this the wrong way around. No you nailed. It is usual. What is your top line reaction to what just happened in the state of georgia. We knew that this was moving fast. I'm not sure it was clear until it was actually happening that this was going to rocket from the house. All the way through the senate. All the way to the governor's desk and into law all in one day. What's your reaction my reaction to. What's happening in georgia. Is that republicans all across the country including in personified by the state of georgia are now weaponising. Trump's lies to make it harder to vote and because they failed to overturn the last election. They are trying to steal overturn the next election and putting into place as many measures as they can do a massive. How're wrapped about making it harder to vote. And to consolidate their power over how elections are run and certified in the fact that they took a two page bill. Rachel turn into a nearly hundred page bill and then passed the entire thing. In one day the house the senate the governor just goes to show you voter suppression in georgia and suppression nationally is now the central organizing principle of the republican party. I think it's felt fair to anticipate that the the types of restrictions on access to the polling place that were passed in this bill would have changed. The electorate in georgia changed the number of votes cast overall and probably the balance of how votes were cast in two thousand twenty but even just putting that aside putting aside the bulk of this bill which is about making it harder to vote making it harder to vote in particular people are likely to vote democratic. What about the structural changes to you. Put it how elections are run and how elections are certified if this law had been in place in georgia in november twenty twenty when trump came in and leaned on georgia. Republicans and said. You guys got to help me out here. I need to have one georgia. Can you make that happen. Would they have been able to use georgia law. They've been able to do it. Do what trump demanded if this law had been in place. Yes if this law had been in place. Donald trump absolutely might have succeeded in overturning. The election in georgia because his biggest republican critic in georgia was the secretary of state where they have just removed as the head of the state board of election and they have removed him as a voting member so if the republican legislature in georgia had wanted to overturn the will of the voters. They could have done that through control of the board of elections in through leaning on county board of elections and this is why they have made this such a big part of the bill there are more sections of this voter suppression bill that that that entrenched the republican party in the state legislature has power over lecture administration than any other part of the bill so a lot of things got the headlines. Right rachel not being able to give people food and water a trying to cut back on early voting those things out the headlines. The real purpose here was to intensify. Control over how every aspect of elections are run in georgia so when there are close elections in the future which they know there will be. They will have unprecedented power to challenge the election results. And he declined to certify them if they don't like who the winner is while and that is why. This is a five alarm fire. Not just in terms of voting rights but in terms of protecting american democracy tonight berman senior reporter. mother jones. Somebody who's reporting is absolutely someone on this issue all right. Thank you for being with us tonight. I really appreciate it so much since since these these bills. These measures have been pending in georgia. We've been covering all along the effort in georgia to try to organize against it and fight against it Well tonight that includes Some very dramatic footage of a member of the georgia legislature. Being arrested at the governor's door when she was trying to be allowed into signing ceremony. Where governor count with signing this thing. We've got that footage for you ahead. It will curl your hair. The fight against what just happened tonight in georgia has also taken a turn tonight. We've got breaking news on that next in terms of a legal fight over what happened lots more to come tonight. This is a big deal. Stay with us okay. Have you seen this footage. As georgia's republican governor. Brian camp announced he was signing georgia's new law restricting voting rights giving republicans control over the running of elections and the handling of election results. Tonight the livestream of that signing ceremony which governor couples conducting in a private room out of the public eye. That livestream was interrupted. And we didn't know why at the time it turns out there were knocks on the door from a democratic state representative named park cannon. She wanted to see the signing. She was objecting to the bill being signed and announced behind closed doors. She was then arrested by georgia. State troopers for knocking on the door. Where signing ceremony was happening here on tape you can see. It even dragged her through the capital. They put her into a police car and put her in jail. This happening tonight. This is georgia democratic state representative. Now we do not know represented candidates still in jail at this hour. There are some conflicting reports as to whether she may still be in jail what she may have been charged with. But that is happening locking up state. Legislators asking to see the signing of the bill while republicans claim for themselves new rights to run the elections certify determined. The results of them after the republican president demanded that they use that kind of power to nullify the election results and declared him the winner not three months ago tonight also. The democratic party's leading. Voting rights litigator the lawyer who beat back republican efforts in two thousand twenty by winning sixty two different election cases upholding joe biden's presidential victory. That lawyer marc elias. Tonight tells us that he has filed the first lawsuit to combat. This new election law in georgia joining us now is marc elias. Democratic elections attorneys the co founder of democracy docket. I mr lyons thanks for joining us on. What is a really remarkable day in in your in your world of expertise but also in the news. Thanks for having me. It's actually a sad day because today democracy was assaulted. You know we let we saw democracy assaulted with the big lie. We saw democracy physically assaulted on january six and today we saw democracy assaulted with a pen the pan of camp as he signed a law to try to accomplish what donald trump and the big lie was unable to accomplish. And that's a sad day for us but it's also a day that we need to renew ourselves and steel ourselves for the fight ahead that'll take place in court. Tell me about the the fight that you expect in court. Obviously we are familiar with voting battles including a lot of them by you over whether or not republicans can restrict access to the ballot box whether they can cut early. Voting cut access to absentee voting require people to do things and show papers and jump through hoops that they con the constitution doesn't say they have to do in order to cast their ballots. I am less familiar with the litigation landscape when it comes to republicans taking over the running of elections tallying of election results and the certification of those results. This seems like new territory to me. It is i mean it shows the ingenuity of the republican party to find ever new ways to attack voting and attack democracy Tonight we're filing a lawsuit on behalf of the new georgia project black voters matter and rise the student organization because we know that these laws are all aimed at disenfranchising. Black voters and also young voters. And so you know. The role of the courts are to protect fundamental rights when politicians fail them and right now. Republican politicians around the country are failing voters failing democracy and we have to turn to the courts. We filed the lawsuit in iowa. The morning after that a terrible bill is passed a now we have filed and are filing. This one in georgia would the two pieces of legislation on voting rights pending before the united states. Senate the john lewis voting rights act the hr one the for the people actress. No senate bill. One in the senate would those help enormously enormously. One of the things that i most worry about rachel. Is that some of the successes that i and others had It last year may have caused people to think. Oh no big deal you know. Republicans do crazy things we go to court or gwynn's we can't count on that. I mean the fact is congress. Needs to fix this. Congress needs to put in place guardrails to protect our democracy. And only congress can do that. And so i implore every member of the senate right now to look and search in their heart whether or not they want to fight for our democracy because otherwise we're going to keep seeing these attacks and we're not going to beat them all in court. Marc elias elections attorney founder of democracy. Democracy docket filing a lawsuit tonight against this georgia. Bill just signed by report by republican governor. Brian kemp mark. Thank you for helping us understand. I appreciate it. Thank you and thank you for amplifying. This important issue absolutely. I have an update for you regarding state representative park canon. We just showed that footage of her being arrested governor. Brian kemp signed to this locked. And i it was. It passed the house today. They pass through through the senate instantly and instant and instantly thereafter. Put it on the governor's desk and he signed it tonight in a lightning fast process We saw representative part canon democratic state representative in georgia knocking on the door. We're governor kemp was holding the signing ceremony for this bill. She arrested for knocking on the door. I mentioned that there were competing Reports tonight about whether or not She was still in jail We have just been advised that she is out of jail. She has been released on bond but she has been charged with obstruction of law enforcement and preventing or disrupting general. Assembly sessions Which are serious charges. She was handcuffed and dragged out of the state capital for knocking on the door to be admitted to the signing ceremony. Fulton county district attorney's office again says that she has been released on bond but this is as ugly as it gets in georgia. Stay with us. Sometimes we do something on this show that nobody else in the news is talking about. This is one of those. This is why you watch. I know all right here goes there are two big well marked exit doors from cove it that we as a country are basically not using one of them is something we're screwing up because of disinformation militias and otherwise about vaccines. And this is something you've seen a lot of coverage of lots of communities having lots of different problems with vaccine hesitancy and it's got a whole bunch of different drivers it's everything from generic anti vaccine conspiracy and fears too. I kid you not online. Russian disinformation designed to undermine americans confidence in western vaccines because they compete with the russian ones anti-government fears about the development and approval the vaccines bad communication and misunderstandings about the merits of one approved vaccine versus another. There's all sorts of different drivers of it and as vaccines become more and more available to us the reluctance in some quarters to actually get vaccinated. When vaccine is offered it has been a big focus of concern and discussion and news attention and work right now by the biden administration and some of the states that have been handling this better than others. You've heard a lot of news about that right and rightfully so that really is an exit door for our country from covid right over. Half a million americans dead still more than a thousand americans dying every day. There is an exit door from covid called mass vaccination. We will deprive ourselves of that way out of this nightmare. Unless we can contend with vaccine hesitancy vaccine resistance that we see among some americans. That's door number one that we're not using and you've heard quite a bit about that one. I'm sure here's the other one the other exit door from covid that we are not using but this one no one's talking about this is something that is available. This one doesn't have the same malicious forces and quacks and conspiracy theories and long difficult history behind it. This one is an exit door from cova that we're not using just because people really know about it because it's offered to them and they don't know to ask for it it's treatment it's new drugs that successfully treat covid so if you get covid you won't get sick and die from it. These treatments have been around for a little bit now. They i started getting approved by the fda late last year. President trump himself got treated with one of these drugs when he was in the hospital. These drugs are around have been a lot of studies of them already showing that they're effective but as a leftover of the trump administration's general non strategy for covid. This was another thing. The federal government under trump didn't really do anything about they just assumed the states would come up with something in terms of distributing these treatments. And making sure that people who needed them got them well. Turns out. most states didn't do that most states to this day offer no easily accessible data about where and how to get access to covid treatment if you're cova positive and you've got symptoms. I mean states like massachusetts where i live and new york and florida and california if you test positive for covid and you've got symptoms you want to know what your options are for getting treated those big states with tons of cases they give you virtually nothing no information about treatment unless you already know about it and you're specifically searching for it by name in florida specifically if you click on the link on the state website about what to do if you've got covert and you're feeling sick florida helpfully offers you information right up top about getting a vaccine which is like a car accident. I'm hurt. I need an ambulance in the state of florida. Drives up and offers you a seatbelt. Late bad timing. If you've already got covid vaccine to keep you from getting covid is not going to help but if you do get infected. Fifty thousand plus americans are still getting infected. Every day. there are drugs new drugs that are sort of shockingly effective at treating it. The trump administration left the administration of those treatments to the states. Most states have bought it in terms of getting those treatments. Actually used by people can help. You may have seen headlines like this. One out of the state of michigan. Last month why is a stockpile of promising covid nineteen treatments sitting unused in lansing. Why indeed well. The biden administration is now trying to change that. The positive impact of these treatments has become pretty clear. These treatments can make a huge difference. Eli lilly's newest. Antibody combination has shown the ability to reduce covid nineteen related hospitalizations and deaths by up to eighty seven percent so the national institutes of health and infectious disease society of america. They both formerly recommend the use of this treatment patients with mild or moderate covid nineteen. These treatments are efficacious. They show enough promise in clinical studies to recommend their broader used during this pandemic to help us save lives for all americans these treatments for covid nineteen are free and the cost of administering them is covered. That's the biden white house. Trying to get out the word dr michelle nunez smith and i think they're trying to get the word particularly to doctors. Hey start using these freaking drugs. They dropped the chances of hospitalization and death in high risk patients by eighty seven percent. That's really close to a cure for the people who are most at risk of dying. Why are we not treating people with this dr fauci doctrine anthony fauci keeps briefing as well on this and it's it's interesting. It never gets any pick up whenever he does it. Because i think all anybody in the news media wants to talk about his vaccines but these numbers he's talking about. These are nuts in individuals. Who were ambulatory with the question being asked. Can we keep them out of the hospital. It showed a seventy percent reduction in covid related hospitalizations and deaths again in ambulatory patients reduced hospitalization and risk of death with an eighty five percent reduction. When you look at this compared to placebo where you have infection in a nursing home and you looked at the groups be they staff or residents who were randomized to placebo versus bam limited. You mad there was an eighty percent reduction in the incidence of moderate. A worse cove nineteen where there is a infection in the household setting. the results. were really dramatic. It was one hundred percent protection against symptomatic infection in the group compared to placebo. He's talking about all different studies though but those numbers are crazy. Ab percent reduction eighty five percent reduction. Seventy percent reduction a hundred percent protection against symptomatic infection. Numbers like that. Do not come along often in medical science the scientists keep briefing this stuff and they keep saying things like really dramatic results. A huge difference proven to be efficacious. These treatments are now the recommended way to treat covid now by the national institutes of health and by the infectious disease society of america. This is not some snake oil thing. This is proven stuff and these treatments are a potential exit door from the worst of the covid nightmare. We're just not taking it. We're just not using these treatments as a country. Broadly speaking and that's because people don't know to ask for them or how to get them for patients over sixty five for patients of any age with other health conditions that make you high risk to get sick and potentially die from cova the really on a quickly. Not at all bad all good news. Is that four free in this country. You can get a treatment that seventy eighty eighty seven percent effective at keeping you healthy and well and out of the hospital even though you've got covid and you're at high risk and you've already got mild to moderate symptoms. That's incredible but more than seventy percent of the doses of these drugs available aren't being used. They're just sitting there well. The biden administration has just started one hundred fifty million dollar new effort to get these treatments out there and into patients to save lives these drugs. These monoclonal antibody treatments. They're not just for rich and connected people like when donald trump got it. And walter reed all these treatments really are for everybody and their free we know they work their available for the taking in most cases they're just not being used but the places that are using these treatments those places ought to be getting national three install front page about how well it's working how we do have this very effective way to actually beat cove it no. It's not vaccinations to prevent people from getting covid. This is to treat people and keep people alive once they get infected. Fifty thousand plus americans are still getting infected. Every day turns out. We can keep them alive. Keep them out of the hospital like the south carolina hospital system that reported earlier this month that they've treated over twelve hundred high risk patients in south carolina with one of these combination. Monoclonal antibody therapies after treating more than twelve hundred patients with this drug percent that needed to be hospitalized was under three percent which is a crazy. Low percentage for covid patients otherwise at high risk for hospitalization. Also the high incidents high risk factor community in imperial valley california. Were there hospital started. Proactively treating hundreds of patients with antibody infusions anybody in a high risk category treated right away right after they tested positive their hospitalization and death rates at al central medical seller plummeted among those who took the treatment. We spoke with their medical director here last month. And the part of the friction. We talked to dr fauci about these treatments and he explained that part of the friction for why more people aren't taking this drug is that it needs to be infused shot that you have to sit there and take for an hour to sit there for an hour while the drug is infused into you. That logistical thing is seen as enough of a hassle. That patients aren't being told to take these drugs because nobody wants to arrange the infusion for them but infusions arna difficult thing. It's not rocket science not complex. We can do it in every state in the country in michigan. Now one senior state health official has started bringing infusions in two long term care facilities. So your aunt or your grandpa's in a long term care facility. You're older friend. He or she tests positive that facility in michigan they started this program where they bring these monoclonal antibody treatments into those facilities. They do the infusions for people right there where they already are after a positive test and in those high risk patients. They are again seeing below three percent of them. Having to go to the hospital they are seeing instant improvement. And i know this is the thing that nobody else is talking about in the news. I know we've had scour local news stories in white house transcripts that nobody else picked up on wrote news stories about in order to put this story together. But that's that's dumb. In the middle of a pandemic that is still killing over one thousand of us every day or the vast majority of us still aren't vaccinated. It ought to be three inch headline territory that we've got something. We americans have got something in quantity sitting on shelves ready to go. That's all but a cure for this disease and it's free to any of us and we all qualify for it if we're cove positive and we meet that very generous criteria about what counts about what counts to make you high risk for getting sick. The biden administration is trying to get the word out now at last but man screaming from the rooftops we could cut our hospitalizations and deaths over seventy percent. Right now with what. We've already got if we just did this. If we just got this together we should get this together. We've got more ahead with somebody who knows this firsthand. Stay with us today. At the first formal press conference for president biden. There were zero questions for him about kofi before he started taking questions announced. He's doubling the vaccination gulf for our country he wants two hundred million vaccination doses in one hundred days. Now talked about the promise of the covid relief bill but no reporters asked him any questions at all. If i had a question to ask him. I would've asked about the administration's new effort to try to get americans who have covid treated for the disease joining us. Now is dr william fails. He's a professor of emergency medicine at western michigan university. He's also state medical director for the michigan health departments bureau of ems trauma and preparedness. Dr phil thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule to be here tonight. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me in more. Thanks for taking the time during the show to to to shed some light on this important therapy. Well i was struck by the news michigan. We saw interesting reporting that michigan. Like a lot of states had these promising therapies on hand. But they were just sitting in a warehouse unused but also you and some of your colleagues have pioneered efforts to try to get more patients who could benefit from them to uptake. These therapies to actually get them to people where they are. Can you tell us a little bit about how you're trying to do that. Yeah it's it's really a multi. Multi pronged approach would would we. I took delivery back in november michigan. Like like most other state was being hit. Pretty hard by cova did. Initially we provided the therapy to the bodies to every hospital in the state and some of them embraced right away some of our larger academic centers. Interestingly some of our more rural and smaller hospitals jumped on the On on the bandwagon. They were really at the time. You're worried about their hospital. Being overwhelmed with covid patients We saw big uptake in our rural hospitals in the upper peninsula. Us using the antibodies. But they still have many hospitals really. Were not using it and so we. We've tried hard to get the word out to clinicians. Probably not as well to the patients. And i think that's that's really what we're doing tonight is letting patients now that this is the therapy up. You mentioned the the The nursing home response. This is something i think. We're really proud of in these nursing homes have outbreak. This is kinda refer to this as like a mass casualty incident in evolution. And now with the antibodies were able to scramble a team of state nurses and partnering with local paramedics and they come in and in the matter of a couple of hours. Free twenty over thirty patients at one time with a good success just a surprising. All number very few number of hospitalizations in a group. That's it's super high risk. I mean it sounds like that could become a sort of standard of care in congregate living facilities obviously part of the logistical difficulties. That you've got to get somebody either to an infusion center or some other healthcare setting in which they can get an infusion. It's not a complicated thing. But it's not the most common medical procedure where they are and you cannot be sorry. It's not hard to get saying where people that could be done in any hospital. Emergency department were. We're sending paramedics out with nurses out of people's homes so it's not hard but that doesn't also make it easy so it requires a little bit of planning or fairmont of clamming but it can be done. Dr william fails medical director of michigan's bureau of ems trauma and preparedness. I'm saying you're full title. Because i'm implicitly conveying to state health officials and the people who know them around the country right now that they should call you and talk to you about the progress. You've been able to make on this in michigan. Because i do think that it's a way to save a lot of lives and to keep a lot of people out of the hospital and it just people need to people need to know it's available. Thanks for helping us understand it sir. You for the record. I m modest snake oil salesmen. So thank you indeed. Absolutely right that is going to do it for us tonight. Thank you for being here. We'll see you again this time tomorrow. The show weeknights at nine eastern on msnbc.

georgia michigan donald trump biden trump republican party president biden senate georgia legislature Trump Marc elias Brian kemp joe biden legislature Lindsey graham white house aaron langeveldt Van langeveldt Mr van
Yale Peabody Museum expansion and a new ceratopsian

I Know Dino: The Big Dinosaur Podcast

1:24:56 hr | 2 months ago

Yale Peabody Museum expansion and a new ceratopsian

"Hello and welcome to i know dino i'm garrett and i'm sabrina and today in our three hundred and thirty eighth episode we have a bunch of news including a new sarah topsy from new mexico. Which is the oldest of its group. But it's kind of a specific group so the more interesting thing is just the details of the new species we also have an interview with mariana. Di giacomo who is the natural history conservator at the yale peabody museum which is undergoing some huge renovations should mostly what we talk about. excited to see it someday. Yeah including including like some really cool new mounts further dinosaurs and stuff. It's going to be great and we have dinosaur of the day. Sepia soros because sabrina can't go an episode without his pod. Somebody requested that one. There have been a lot of sore pob requests. I can't help if a lot of people want to hear about the sewer pods. You also requested a sore pod for this episode. but i didn't have access to the paper so that's not here yet. At then i also just want to mention happy world metrology day of course may twentieth the anniversary of the meter convention from eighteen. Seventy five which is an important day because meters are great as well as all the other. Si units they make all the engineering and science much easier to handle than using a bunch of different units so a fun fact about that which relates dinosaurs. So i think it's interesting hopefully to you also but before we get into all of that real quick. We wanna thank some of our patrons and this week we want. Thank to plotto kate. Sophie yuan pippa ceratops neil overnighter. Elizabeth the georgia's family sarah source. Rex kessler and ben at jurassic site. Be yeah thank you so much. We appreciate all of your support and said it before. But i mean it each time like it keeps this show going definitely one of the really cool things if you join our community of dinosaur enthusiasts is of course our discord and you wanna thank our patrons who recently got to see some of the cool new things at the australian age of dinosaurs museum in winston brand new early. Part of it is We actually had a few listeners. Who've been there and got to see the march of the titanic sores which sounds amazing more sore. Pats is a big track way. I think is one of the hallmark pieces right the shipped it over from the lark quarry. I think it's called that we actually didn't get a chance to make way out in the boonies. It's hard to get to like. You can't drive a rental car there. I was afraid. I was gonna shake apart. So now you can get their easier by going to winton still a little bit either way but at least there are paved roads to it and some really awesome new giant titanic or sculptures to go along with it. Yeah thank you to everyone who shares all sorts of stuff in that discord server. Because it's like my favorite place to go. You're really makes me happy. I often go. There are falling asleep. The see a little bit dinosaur stuff before i go to sleep. Clear my head and in a happy place. It's very nice. It is a happy place. F you want to join our community. Join us in our happy place than sign up at our patriot. Patriot dot com slash. I know daito so jumping into the news. We're gonna kick it off with our new dinosaurs. We usually do this week. It is a sarah thompson mentioned before written by sebastian dahlman and published in pails e pals. E it's a german translation. So i'm not gonna say what the z. Stands for but those new. Sarah thompson is really cool from the menefee formation which is northwest new mexico. It was actually described back in nineteen ninety-seven in a review of the allison member of the menefee formation. One of those sort of like use of all the stuff we've found there and they talked about a ceratops in but they didn't give it a name as a new genus or species. At the time. I don't even think they identified was i think they just gave it a specimen number sort of talked about that it was there. Says they knew they were interesting bones but they hadn't prepared it yet. Maybe yeah exactly. And it's important because it is older than some of the other sarah hops in formations especially for this type of ceratops in so it's worth mentioning the genus yet and it might also be because it wasn't fully prepared at the time so they might not have had the time to get it fully ready for a new name but that has recently been finished. And now that us prepped out. We can see some new new unique features so the new startups in is named menefee ceratops. Cpi and menefee ceratops is obviously from the menefee formation and ceratops which is greek for horned face. So it's the menefee formation horned doesn't really make sense when you translate it it. Menefee tops is a pretty good name than celia is after paul sealy. Who was the guy that are really found the dinosaur back in. I think the ninety s presumably since it was published a ninety seven. Yeah probably menefee. Serotypes is a central serene. And usually the way i described that as it's the group that includes status. They often have a big central horn on their nose. Smaller brow. horns. If any at all and big decorative frills are really small decorative frills relative to the other group which has kasmin orleans that includes triceratops and that sort of the prototypical kasmin big brow horns smaller nose horn. Big old. frill but less ornamentation on the frill. Usually how it goes but there are a ton of exceptions. There's a lot of crossover and convergent. Evolution mixing up that happens. And that's definitely the case with this central orient. It's not of typical central story. And the paper does include some really nice paleo art which is always the easiest way to get a view of what the animal looks like rather than trying to piece together from different bones and maybe a silhouette. Plus you get nice. Keller yeah yeah. The colors they choose are always interesting. Not the most scientifically important. I guess because it's always sort of guests on that always usually guests in this case it was. I think they made it sort of a greenish color. If i remember right. It's a very pretty piece of paleo art. The first thing you notice if you're thinking about oh it's a central or is that it doesn't have any central nasal horn like i expected. It's all about the frills. In this case. Yes but even the frill is significantly less ornamented than some of the others. Because it's older maybe it is older in geological age. But i don't know how old it was as an individual. They think that it might have been four meters or thirteen feet long at its full size which is kind of small forest there topsy and at least compared to something like triceratops and i think the estimate for this one was less than that i think it was three point something so i'm assuming they think it was a sub adult but i don't remember reading that paper. This is based on some side comments elsewhere. So yeah maybe it's because it's older geologically or it could be because it's a younger as an individual because a lot of times as animals get older. They grow more elaborate horns or decorations on their frills in the case of ceratops ends sometimes although triceratops less decorated for real. It's all over the place. It's really hard to say with just one individual but with menefee ceratops even though it doesn't have that nasal horn it has sort of a more parrot like beak. I would say sort of like a proto. Sarah tops. That's what i always think. That was the first sarah thompson i saw. That had that sort of biki parrot face thing going on without any horns on the nose. Yeah it's really like yeah the whole face because even though we call it a parrot beak the beak is really only like the tip of the snout and in this case. It's like the whole snout of the sarah has all parody looking but in the case of menefee serotypes that whole parrot shaped beak is mostly just inferred from relatives because we didn't find the top of the snout so we can't really be certain that didn't have a little bit of a nasal horn or nasal boss or something like paki renaissance or something but the we do have a little bit of the side of the snout and we have a lot of other elements of the skull. So we know what is close. Relatives are and those ones. Have this more parrot like beak without nasal horn. So that's our best. Guess although this one is like seven or eight million years younger than those. So maybe that's the case but we can't be certain it does have though a more decorative thrill than something like triceratops. It's got six triangular ornaments on the top of its frill three on each side. So if you hold up like three the number three and you put it like sort of like. You're wearing a crown. I guess that's sort of the equivalent of what had has or too many grounds to the just like separated by a little bit because everything's symmetrical down that center line. So there's a little bit of a gap in the middle and there's three bumps basically on the top. there isn't really anything on the sides. It's a lot smoother on the sides without much ornamentation. There i think it actually looks pretty nice pretty nice little ornaments and i think other menefee ceratops probably also thought i looked nice since that's essentially the whole point of these real ornament nations but it also has to brow horns which is a little bit weird because it's the sore and usually they don't have big brow horns these aren't as big as something like a triceratops but they're reasonably large and they curve forward a little bit so i think it looks kind of similar to zeno ceratops with a less decorated frill as the closest well-known topsy and the most well known top seeing that has general look. Do you remember xenos airdrops. It's got a whole lot going on. This is like a simpler version of zarate. Hops is kind of how i think about it a little bit. Like avis air tops to without a pretty small was like a larger version of that. Anyway you can just think of these three to six depending on if you're talking about one side or both sides ornaments on the tablet real front curving horns and no nasal horn with a parrot like beak and you get a pretty good idea of how it looked. The find is really good in my opinion because it also includes in addition to partial bits of the skull quite a bit of the body of menefee ceratops so the head has edges of the frill pieces of horn a complete left jaw and a small piece of the jar. Like in the maxine law sort of side of the snout which is useful. And that's really all. They used for naming for diagnosing manifesto tops as a new species. Because it's like ankylosaurs where usually don't find the body and we have all these unique things to go by on the head so just kind of ignore the body. 'cause with most of them you don't have anything to compare so there isn't anything you can say is unique to it because it's so uncommon to find any of it usually comes down to the frills and horns. Yeah exactly topsy ins definitely a actually an ankle source the horns in the back of the head and then like in an cows horses this like the bony plates on top of the head whereas ceratops have like these cheek projections and some other elements like horns on the top of the head. Do but they did find a lotta body. So i think it's super cool. It definitely makes better mount if nothing else. they got. Lots of vertebrae sixteen total for two from the neck. Eight from the back and six from the sacred. Which a lot. A lot of sacred vertebrae six. Yeah might be common for centers. I never know what sara thompsons have in their body because everyone's always just talking skull but six april vertebrates quite a few. They also found that the left ilian which is the upper hip bone to go along with that sacred they found ribs a complete femur and fragments of other limb bones including pieces of the iliad radius all night and a metatarsal. It's pretty decent. Yeah it is especially with the femur you know you can get some good estimates on height and weight and maybe stride and things like that when you have those types of bones as far as the unique features go that made menefee. Ceratops manatees tops. And not just some other undiagnosed sarah topsy in or within some other genus. The main thing is those three. Fbi certifications on the top of each half of the frill and the lack of them elsewhere. So the smooth sides of the frill there's also a shape of the indent at the bottom of the frill which is sort of like before it she corn thing going on that allows air topsy and have you look at the back of the. There's a little bit of indian indian to the bottom and the frill sticks back output like also sort of the cheek. This weird thing that they have anyway. It's got a unique shape around that there's also the size and the shape of the brow horns with a medium length curving forward and down a little bit which helps to identify it to and a lot of other little subtle things like ridges on the nasal bones and all sorts of things that you don't notice unless you're up close looking at the fossil right the main things where the frills and the horns yet definitely. I think they use some of these specific ridges to figure out that it was a centrist orene rather than just a general neoceratopsian but even those things might be filed genetically kind of important. They're not super useful in identifying. It has a unique species so like i mentioned. It is a new record for the oldest centrist serene sarah thompson which is pretty specific. Although not that specific a centrist horny does have a decent number of species in it. This is based on it being from the lower alice. Member of the menefee formation which as authors put it is from the late early campaigning or in normal include eighty three and a half to eighty million years ago which is pretty old. I was actually surprised that that was the oldest interest. I haven't looked at the dates of centrists orleans but there are all sorts of sarah thompsons. That are older than that. That's not really old for his air. Topsy in general. For example zuni ceratops is at least ninety million years old. Ten million years older basically and superficially zuni ceratops looks fairly similar to menefee ceratops too. So it's not like this is the first sarah topsy and that has like some feature and you'd be like oh us first time we've ever seen something with the two big brow horns or something doesn't check any of those boxes but file a genetically. It is still pretty important because it could mean that centrist aurigny in southern lehrer media and later moved north which is the kind of stuff paleontologist. Wanna know And unlike some cases where we're trying to guess at what the earliest things are in an area we actually have a pretty good sample of centrist. Sourani all the way down to mexico and up to alberto with alberta sarah tops and for once we also have decent evidence of absence since we have eighty million-year-old rocks without centrists orients from northern layer media alberda. So they probably disappeared will. They probably weren't there yet. They probably evolved in southern our media and then worked their way up right. at least. that's why we're thinking that disappeared. They have evolved up. There made their way down south and then disappeared in northern then head to re migrate backup like human evolution had a lot of those sorts of crazy movements all over the place so definitely possible. The closest relatives of menefee ceratops are crittenden ceratops. And yet we sarah and those three along with an unnamed serotypes in our together in their own little out group of basal centrists orleans. They're all expected to have those sort of parrot like beaks. Front curving brow horns and medium-sized frills. But menefee serotypes is the only one with pretty smooth sides of the frill rather ornaments also continuing down the sides of the frills and its way earlier because manatees tops is about eighty million years old whereas clinton ceratops is about seventy three million years old and yet ceratops is about seventy two million years old plus menefee. Zero tops is the only one from new mexico and this formation in general crittenden serotypes is from china and yet who tops is quite a bit farther to the southeast in choa huila mexico although of course dinosaurs did not care about arbitrary lines of states and countries only geological boundaries. Exactly like they cared a lot about that western interior seaway which put them in layer media but other than that probably not so much but of course as authors. I always like to point out. We still need more fossils because these earlier smaller ceratops yen's are largely known from partial skulls rather than complete skulls like seem to find all the time for triceratops. So hopefully we can find some more menefee serotypes in the rocks and get a better picture of what it looked like. Find out if it really didn't have a nasal horn and had that parody frills than we know. We got a decent smattering of the edge of the frill but we are missing some pieces. It's a pretty one though. I like it. You've talked about sarah thompson. Got a quick sore pot more food piece of news. Of course he do. I can't help it if these things come up so frequently so in lieu fong yunan province. China researchers recently found the skeleton of a three-year-old indicate sore more dinosaur. It's probably a new species. But there's no paper on it yet. They found part of the skull. Cervical vertebra dorsal vertebra and metacarpal bone. And they're estimating that this individual was five and a half feet one point seven meters long and lived in the early jurassic being sore bottom or if it was herb avarice with leaf shaped teeth realizing how opposite sore pods are from sarah options where we found over a dozen vertebrae from menefee serotypes and is basically like well. Those are interesting but we're not going to use them for much of anything whereas the sore pods is like this. The vertebrae are where it's at. There's no skull but if the skull it wouldn't be all that useful we were all about the the vertebrae 'cause that's what we usually find. Yeah that's true also femurs. I think yeah. that's true. There are definitely that are useful as a pretty tiny one though five and a half feet only three years old. Maybe that's not so small for a three year old son so go back to the ceratops sean's now see the sneakers or biden as early as possible. Well that's because this one is about a sarah topsy at a museum like to keep my museum segments together. Gotcha so this one's about headless henry. Triceratops who's going to be complete by mid june meaning completely prepared. yeah and headless. Henry's at the misery institute of natural science and is the largest triceratops found and the only mounted dinosaur in missouri. Cool and henry came to this museum in. Twenty thirteen is just a jumble of bones that was found in wyoming and they've been working on assembling henry since and they're now using three d. printing to help build henry. It's speed up. This whole process is last year. They had one volunteer. Daniel start working with dr henry cy from missouri state and they started this new three d. printing approach and volunteer. Daniel bought six three d. Printers that are now. Printing twenty four seven and there's also a three d. printer in the museum that keeps turning out pieces of henry. Wow so it's it's more like in june it will be done being printed is. i assume. Actually that they've probably finished preparing it a while back. If already scandal started printing. Oh yes it by complete. I mean assembled gotcha. It took him two thousand hours to print. The lower jaw some pretty massive lower jaws and really cool teeth mashed in there. So yeah and they're using super glue to keep the parts together they used four gallons in the left femur alone glue and they're also three d. printing small models of henry to help them figure out how to pose a triceratops cool so next deterred abou hundred percent virtual museum of the museum of the patagonian desert of on yellow and virtual so anybody can visit it digitally and they've got tours of their main attractions. So i i saw a video preview and that reminded me of a vr experience. The exhibits are a little bit interactive. You've got this dinosaur and displaying roaring. And then i tried it out and it reminded me more of a non vr video game where you're of clicking around and you're moving. It's got soothing music as you explore the exhibits. It's all laid out like a museum so it's pretty fun. Is it kind of like doing a virtual tour of the house or something where you just clicking around like street view. It felt a little more interactive than that. Can you take like smaller steps. Maybe he takes smaller steps. Things are moving. there's actually like placards with explanations of the displays cool. Yeah is this a real place as well. Yes okay when you said it was a digital museum. I was thinking that it didn't actually exist in real life. But that's cool. I think real life well looks like pictures of real things. It's not like google street view that way it's not pictures. It's all completely animated. Oh interesting check us out. Yeah it was pretty fun to try out the next in antonio texas they're dinosaur mascot which is known as archy or an acrocanthosaurus at the whitney museum recently got quote unquote vaccinated arche sits outside the adleman offices. And there's a photo of arche with a large bandage on its stickers. That says i got my covid. Nineteen vaccine couple million years. Too late though. Well yes no do much archa. Archa wouldn't have needed to worry about it. I suppose yeah probably not actually. I don't know how much it affects. Birds else didn't exist when archie lived his co. point yes be like covert negative sixty six million. Yeah in kalamazoo western michigan. University has a free dinosaur park on campus. They've got five life size. Dinosaur statues it's triceratops stegosaurus. Velociraptor spinosaurus in paris rothfusz and each of them has assigned with facts about the dinosaur. Like how fast. They moved what they ate when they lived and plans to add more dinosaurs and dinosaur footprints. Make it an even bigger free dinosaur park. Free is nice in florida fairchild tropical botanic garden in coral gables has a new exhibit called jurassic garden a prehistoric adventure. Cool here so. The gardens eighty three acres and the a garden hose. Walking tours teach visitors about their life size dinosaurs that are on display and open from now until july eighteenth and based on the pictures. I could see payer office t rex and some feathered rafters. I like the feathers I'm always impressed. When they put feathers on outdoor dinosaur displays i will say these look like fiberglass sculpted feathers like fluffy feathers. Yes gajah still better than the lizard e scales in minnesota in champlin. There's a sinclair gas station. That's known for its. I think it's pronounced dino the dinosaur because why would it be dino the dinosaur so dino's been in front of the gas station for twenty years in every other week deal gets new costume. That's because diana merckel the office manager nick dino scarf one winter and people liked it so much so since then she's given dino a hundred different looks. Oh man. that is a lot of costumes. Most of them are to celebrate differ holidays the gallic july fourth halloween new year's mardi gras mother's day. I wonder what a mother's day costume looks like. So that was the picture or one of the pictures in the article. I found at least well. Actually i don't know if it was for mother's day. There's one picture of it in a tuxedo. But maybe that one wasn't for other states like new year's sort of could be oh for mother's day's got flowers on ted i see. Yeah that makes some sense. Maybe dino's female. Maybe there's this i am behind dino's is happy. Mother's day wanted babysitter. So dino's the baby in this case it's unclear okay and apparently the communities got really into it. People chip been with wigs and hats and leftover costumes. Some good to do with your halloween costume when you're done with it Repurpose it into a dinosaur costume. He and media news. There's this k pop group. Nc t dream and people who made the kid song baby shark which by know that song from tiktok personally but anyway they have a new dinosaur song called dinosaurs a to z and they sing about dinosaurs for each letter. Ooh yeah we tried to that an once. We were listing off dinosaurs that start with every alphabetical letter. Some are really easy. Some are much more difficult. Yes in the music video. They have a lot of animated dinosaurs in it for each one. They name and that was made by this company. Pink that made a whole album of dinosaur socks which i'd be curious. What the other songs that like. And if they're meant for children or also dulce. I don't know i'd be willing to bet there for kids with tiny songs. Sometimes they get remixed true and then another just kind of crazy thing i read. Was that that. K pop. Group has twenty three people in it. I didn't realize groups could get that big. That is a lot almost enough for every letter in the alphabet. Make it all dress up as the different dinosaurs act out. The whole song was my thought. They just need three volunteers from the audience. Their managers can then. The last item i found was that the show is getting a reboot. Starting may twenty seventh. What does this have to do with that source because the trailer shows all the baby's getting chased by a t rex but it wasn't repertoire. I was sad about that rep tires. i'm really t rex's reptile like godzilla thing then grabbed is a mix of things. Okay but rev is supposed to be a dinosaur. I prefer real t rex to a repertoire. Yeah you'd rather see repertoire i nostalgia. It seems like they're all gone. What more adventures than they did in the original version. I would guess it's in their imagination. Because how would these babies like those weird movies where it's like a baby auditory and like crawling around a major city baby or whatever time travel. Somehow this episode is brought to you by better help if you have things that are airfield or maybe something. That's preventing you from achieving your goals. It can be really helpful to talk to somebody in the past year especially things have gotten ruffin from time to time found it very comforting to talk to somebody so it's better help you can connect in c- in private all i- environment it's really convenient and you can send a message to your counselor anytime. Yeah one of the best things i think. The silver linings of the pandemic has been how much easier it's become to work with therapists online. 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And now we're gonna go onto our interview with mariana di giacomo but of course as always. We have an extended cut of this. Because there's so much to talk about when it comes to dinosaur museums especially one as massive as the peabody museum so if you're a patron and you wanna listen to a longer version. Checkout your premium content feed. We are joined this week by mariana. Di giacomo who is a paleontologist and natural history conservator at the yale peabody museum. She has a phd from the university of delaware's preservation studies program. And she was a fellow at this smithsonian national museum of natural history. Did i hit all of the highlights of your career. So far awesome. So you haven't really been at yale all that long but you're already doing some like really massive work there. It sounds like the whole reconstruction. Is that why you ended up at yale. Yes and no. The reason why yale new a conservative was because the previous one retired and so they were looking for a natural history. Conservator and i was very lucky that i was finishing my phd. Kind of the same time. So i was also in the job search so it was so perfect That those things kind of allied. So what does it mean to be a conservator because usually we end up talking about people who had gone digs or or to prep whore. I used to do all those things my previous life. But nowadays what i do is i take care of specimens in general so i take care of dinosaurs of course but i also take care of the collections of anthropology and entomology and mineralogy. My role in the museum is to preserve the collections into the future so that both researchers and the general public can continue to use them and enjoy them cool. So it's like the last end the longest step of paleontology. It sounds like well. It's interesting because a lot of the conservation works starts in the field with the choice of adhesives that you do that. It goes into the prep lab again with. He's as answered and tools. And then it goes into the collection with the housing that you use for those specimens and so i think conservation is present throughout the life of the fossil. But sometimes it's it's not called conservation. You must gotcha. Oh that's really interesting. Yeah because i know we've heard these stories about people in the early days of paleontology and like using adhesives that were actually really bad or like painting things in ways with at the time you know it was the best we could do the best that we knew of. But i didn't think about that. Yeah that that's actually an important step in the conservatorship someone. It's called set of different things conservation. Yeah cool so. I have noticed on your linked in profile. It's like a picture of you brushing visit like a cheetah sculpture. Yeah we it's actually taxidermy Received a donation. And i had to go over there and do some cleaning before the specimens came into the museum. Which is another thing. That i do as well cool. It's not just conserving fossils. It's also like all of the replicas. Does it include the mural that is so famous. Oh yes it does yes. I am actually having a lot of fun with with that. Because i am one of the very few people who can access the mural today and it is part of my jaw to make sure that that mural is protected throughout the construction. So what does it mean. what are you doing to protect it. We have this amazing scaffold. That turner construction built for us. And it's you know. The mural is huge. No it has two levels so we go up the stairs. I can walk the mural in one level that i can go up another five stairs in monitor it. On a second level we also have so this scaffold is not a traditional scaffold with you is it's enclosed so right now it has its own air circulation so that no air with dust can get inside that space. We also have a conditioned air so that the temperature relative humidity are also going to be kept stable during construction. It doesn't matter if anywhere else in the museum. They need to knock a wall. And then it's summer in. Its very hot or it's winter and it's extremely dry and cold. We will have a separate environment for both murals and as well it has security and the light levels are also reduced so that we're giving them a little bit of a break during construction in a has a little switch that i go in flip the switch and i can see everything for for monitoring during during these. We're ties nearly as living wild. That is an im- really impressive. I was imagining a plastic sheet covering it. That is a whole other level. That's really cool. Yeah i guess the dust would be the big things. I'll probably like positive. Air pressure like keep all the air from leaking in and stuff. So we're letting air come in but it's filtered in its Condition so it's not just any air. Let's say only the best air for the mural cool and then this whole did this project start. I saw slightly different numbers. Different places somewhere. It said that it started in october but somewhere else. It kind of seemed like the construction part didn't start until recently was the timing light so far so on january second of twenty twenty we had closed. We closed december. Thirty first tenure. Second twenty twenty. We started the dismantling of the fossil halls so the rest of the museum was open but the fossil halls were closed. And that's when we started working with research casting international to dismantle some of these skeletons and some of them went to canada for some work that they need to do to bring them back to dub museum looking like science tells us today be skeletons looked. What the dinosaurs. Not just the skeletons. But we're not gonna cover them in flesh and during that time we were working in dismantling both calls like i said the museum was still open but then covert hit and we had to close our doors. The museum stays open in a way Virtually so we have a lot of social media. And there's the peabody evolved website and we have a lot of activities are still happening but the galleries themselves are closed. The goal was to close the galleries in june. But we had to do that earlier. And the construction company has been working in other places outside the peabody building but the peabody complex. Let's call it even though it's not the building itself they have been working in other places because we're getting collection areas renovated as well that we can move the collections that are in the peabody into those spaces while the peabody gets renovated so we need to empty the building which is happening as we speak and we need to empty everything so that the construction company can start doing actual construction inside the peabody building. So is that where that picture. I saw on twitter of fossilized footprints. They're sort of like quote unquote behind a wall. But they're really sort of behind bars behind some racks yet. So those the absolutely amazing they are in these sort of base that we knew that they were there. Everybody knew that they were there. They are on both sides of the wall because they are separating to collection spaces and on the one side it was a vertebrate paleontology and you could see the prince but on the other side. There was an anthropology room and they had put all cabinets and we don't even know when because nobody alive has seen that side so this happened years and years and years ago in. That room was packed with anthropology collections. It wasn't just. Oh yeah just moved that cabinet and we can peek at them. There's no way and so when that enter apology. Room got emptied and we worked with the construction company to take down the old cabinets. We were just marveled at the beauty of those tracks that i get. Everybody knew they were there. They were not inside a wall for example net. Now all of a sudden we have to be careful of all the walls things inside them. That's not the case. We knew that they were there. It's just that we couldn't get to them because all these cabinets filled with beautiful objects were in front. Wow that's quite a story. Yeah so they took all this stuff out of these rooms and put them off into some other buildings so you could upgrade the rooms down there. A lot of the anthropology collections are now getting integrated into a new collection space. That is at yale. West campus hokka. So we have this off site facility. That has this amazingly beautiful new store. It's space it's dreamy. How gorgeous it is and all those apology. Collections are getting installed in their brand new cabinets and the vast majority of the enter apology collections. Are now going to go back to the peabody. We will have some but not all of them. The goal is that we will have a lot of them alice campus. So that it's it's a beautiful place. Where any researcher that needs to Find those collections can go and browse this beautiful cabinets and find interesting topics to discuss kacha. what's gonna fill that anthropology space that is now going to be vacated so everything's getting renovated in in the peabody so that spain's was in the basement is going to be turned into. I think there's going to be a lab and there's going to be a library space if i'm not mistaken but things are going to be moved around so not old spaces will look the same. I think the most exciting aspect of our renovation is that we're going to have more spaces for education so you will have more classrooms and more places for the public to experience the specimens and all the knowledge and science that live in that building and also we will have a fifty percent more exhibit space. So we will have more space to show people amazing collection that we have no. Yeah that's really cool. I just imagined like you're gonna move this stuff out. you're gonna put in fancy new racks. Then you put everything back into those racks way. Way more complicated. So are there any big changes outside of the mural and like the arrangement of things. Is there anything research castings doing that. You're excited about that. You can share the washer. Their repositioning the skeletons. So they are closer to what science tells us that. These dinosaurs looked like before. We had our skeletons dragging their tails in. So that's going to change. The position is going to be yellow more lifelike as well so that we are very very excited to to see the work that research casting internationally stewing to to bring these these dinosaurs respect to life cool. Yeah so the. I'm trying to remember the most famous ones you have. I think the most famous one. I'm familiar with is the brontosaurus like the original brontosaurus. That became a pot of sorts for awhile now. Assuming you're going to name it brontosaurus again. Or carpool awesome. Yes we have stegosaurus as well. Just absolutely adorable. The face of that stegosaurus cool. Do you still do any fossil preparation or you've got way too much to go with. Surfing are my fossil days are gone. We have an amazing team fossil preparers. They are so amazing. I see their work. And my jaw drops constantly. They are so talented. So you only work. I get to do is when i traveled back to where i was born and where i did my my undergrad and my masters in when i go visit the old collection where i used to work in and they let me play for a little like you're grabbing. Air scribe but i think i think my work has shifted so i don't work with are strikes but still collaborate with the preparers and we talk about safeway's of mounting things. Or how are we going to do for example the cleaning of the exhibits once we come back because those are aspects. that sometimes are not considered. But you really have to think. How are we going to clean this. How delicate is this fossil that we're putting out and view because we really want the public to be able to look at it in gioia and be just marveled at both the beauty but also the science. That's coming out of that specimen so we need to find ways to keep those exhibits looking beautiful but also in a way that is safer. The specimens that makes sense is there so it sounds kind of like the research. Casting part of the renovation is mostly the mounting. 'cause you need like big equipment and you know all the metal work that they're doing but on your side you're doing you're still doing all of the prep work. And the air scribe type. Stuff in jail of the skeletons are in canada. They are doing so. They took skeletons. They're doing the work because they are also doing the mounting so they need bones to to design these these giant structures that they're designing so they have the dinosaurs with them. We miss them. But they'll back cool is are there any spots on like these mounted specimens where you're going to be able to see bone that used to be covered in rock or anything like that so that i think the big difference is For example in the keys with brontosaurus it has so much plaster on it. Because that's the way that they used to prepare bones back in the day. And what was holding all the vertebrae you know. You could see that giant neck being held by this giant or must beam. That looks like the empire state building being built one of those images from thirty. It's amazing and so that giant beam was holding the bones and a lot of things were plastered around beams and metal so for research casting to actually take those things down they had to cut that old plaster and so finding the real bone is is one aspect that were really excited that they're going to do and anything any reconstruction that they do on those bones is going to look a little bit more. Sleek if you must be because it's not covering this giant piece of metal that it was covering before so really excited also to to see how those phones are going to comeback gotcha. So you're. I'm assuming you're not going to put plaster back onto them. It's going to be like that below. He'd if i'm saying that right. Oh for glowing. They use a parallel seventy two a lot of times which is mired. He's of of choice for a lot of things not just fossils but they will have to reconstruct some parts that are missing from the bones and for that. They're working mostly with repairs on which materials. Tv's cool so you mentioned when you go back home and and sometimes you get to work on and doing the fossil I know you worked at a like a pretty famous site there. That was one of your first jobs. Can you tell us a little bit about that. Sure that site is absolutely incredible. It's a bone bed that it's covered by a stream. The stream is called originally. And that's the name of the site and for you to be able to access the boats you have to dam the stream and pump out the water. Wow it's a. The logistics are crazy. It's a pleistocene site so it's all mega-fauna mega-fauna and the amount of bones there's no place to step on it's all bone it's marvelous in their sediment that some of them are resting on in if you take them off that sediment the side that was touching. That sentiment is bright. Orange of nancy bone in my life and they are in bright orange. And then you take them out and a half hour later dark brown. Wow so they change color. It's amazing and again. The amount of bones is incredible. They're mostly from one species the less on which is a ground slaw but there are other ones as well. So there are a glimpse it on and Sabertooth cat and deer horrors and mastodon. So there's a little bit of of of everything of that. Pleistocene mega-fauna mostly That single species of ground sloth that dominates the collection. I knew that when i left which was in two thousand fourteen. They had identified twenty one individuals of the same ground sloth and then other species on top of that and they were thousands of bones. left to collect ca. That's going to go on for many years and years and years. So i will always have a place where i can go play. And you can use the river to do some of the excavation work for you. You like damage extract some and then let it go helps and it doesn't because once you damn the place and you pump out all the water you have to save the fish jumping all over the place you try and put them in a bucket and throw them to the other side if they don't want to go so it's it's challenge you really want to them to go because you don't want them to die and second you don't want them to die because then they stink disgust it. There's a lot of mud and you have to remove all that bud and every year they put geo textile covering the bones so that all the mud does not deposit top of the bones again and none of the bones are moved with stream because in the winter it gets. There's much more water so there is a possibility for current to move things in so they put that geotech style. And so you have to also lift the geotech which is incredibly wet and then you just show all of that and you just make all the you know the the squares with the string and all that to plan how. You're going to collect that so there isn't a whole lot of help you get from the stream because you're covering it anyway but also a lot of the bones. Have what are called trampling marks marks that they have on them because at some point the sediment was moved likely because other animals were walking on top of it but there are other marks on them. They're very odd. Let's call them. And it has been proposed that they are from human action which is odd because of the age of the fight which is thirty thousand years old. It's very old for down south in south america in so since all these marks on the bones you cannot use tools to get the bones out. Oh really so. He's your hands. Oh man i would come back with no nails. Go my gosh. because it's yeah you have to use a little bit of that. The the water the site never try. Because there's come the water coming from beneath constantly because their snack refer over there so it's never dry so you kinda us a little bit of that to help you move the sediment in get the bones out so in a way it helps but in a way doesn't help because if you have something. That is extremely delicate. There is no way for you to use plaster for example. You can't do any of the traditional paleontology collecting techniques. None of them sort of scoop it out. Then you try to scoop it one bucket so some of the fossils are rather small that you can just lift others. You need more than one person. Because a femur of grants law is huge. So it's all hands on deck so everybody goes and together you lift that up to. There's no way to take out with a lot of matrix around it to protect it so it is a challenging site in also. A lot of those phones are wet. So when you take them out they can start to crack so you have to find a way to dry them slowly so that you don't find a pile of dust afterwards one of the one the examples that i love the most of the things that i worked on is a fan of an sabertooth cat. We got it out of the site in three pieces. But para loyd is not an adhesive that is easily found in a wide so we had to go to argentina. Toge- it was. It was complicated so by the time i was able to work on that fank when i opened it. It wasn't over forty fragments. Wow because you have dried and so that was a very interesting word. So how do you try to keep it. Where do you put it in a tent with a bunch of moisture and dry it slowly that way. Or what do you do this. Smaller bones are easier because normally what the team does is they take it out west wet as it is. They put it in a plastic bag that they don't close in so they put things in under ten not in the sun and things are all inside. The tent insider plastic bags. There a little bit open not too much but you cannot dry them too slowly because then you get mould cheese so it's very interesting Especially when you're collecting so much. Because one year we collected six hundred bulbs wow in two weeks. Wow a lot. it's incredible. That's amazing so is that the threat is it like they. Every year for a couple of weeks dam the stream. And then you know you'll be back again next year. That is the way that they're working because there are farmers around in so you don't want to disrupt their work and they let their livelihood so it's always arranged that is normally two weeks during the year and there may be some times a third week or or another time that you go but more is like prospecting around the site so you're not damaging the stream and some people if it's for example. It's a very dry year. They will use the water from stream to water their crops so you can just dam a stream and leave people without water for their beats or whatever planting. So yeah it's it's a coordinated work. What's your do you do it. They do it in the summer. So in south. America that is from december to march cool. So that's kind of handy because then if you're working in north america you can do the summer up here and then you go down there and do the summer and that would be i mean they they keep telling me what are they coming pandemic going hopefully next year. Yeah well you never know. Sounds like one of those sites. Do that Once you've navigated around that like you can take on any kind of site. It's very intense. But i i imagine what it would be to collect in the desert in. It's such like opposites. So i don't know how it would survive in the middle of the desert. You go from way too much water too way too little water that because the advantage of this site is that there is water so if you put some sort of a something on top of of where you're digging some of that shade and then the water. It's not awful if it's a hundred degrees out there because it's summer but i think in that sense that the desert is truly challenging. Yeah and especially. Yeah they're trying to use plaster too so they got to bring a lot of water long for that. Were different challenges. Cool so i have to ask because we do dinosaurs. I know there aren't a lot of dinosaur fossils from uruguay. But have you had a chance to work on or see any senior. I've seen dinosaur eggs and some fragments mostly from long bones vertebrae those are more common in there and there are some carnivore teeth. So there there into many many dinosaurs in hawaii. It's like argentina and brazil all the amazing geology and then it just flattens and becomes these tiny little thing when it gets to her but the counter sites that is that if you look at the geologic map of or why. It's incredibly diverse you have things from the whole geologic time in that teeny tiny little territory. Cool yeah well. We don't have dinosaurs but we have the whole thing. It's an eight. Yeah so there are incredibly old rocks so even though we're not lucky enough to have jarvis skeletons of sorrow pods like our neighbors. We are very lucky to have amazing outcrops of other things. I mean it seems like you could find something eventually. They're right because you do have the cretaceous rock or is it. Not the right type of rock the best and again it. Most of the things that are found are not very big. Mike and also the sarah potts that we get to find. They are so solidified. It's so hard to tell what's what so it is. It is challenging. But we do have footprints. That's good We have some tracks. Yeah so those are cool for our listeners. Where's the best place for them to go to find out more about you and your work probably online yes. I'm very active both on twitter and instagram. So did you know that twitter only has fifteen characters for your name and my name is sixteen so close. So what again. I had to drop a letter so it's still in english. It's still sounds mariana. The jackal is just that the i in the d. Had to be dropped. So i am at marina the jackal and on instagram. I'm at maruti a are you. Digi great here and there's talking a bit earlier before the recording. You've been posting a lot of amazing photos of what's going on at the peabody right now. Which been cool to see. Yeah and i also have my my website which is www delhi dot my energy giacomo dot com. Which is mostly. I have my instagram. Feed off that. But there's also contact if anybody wants to ever ask me. Any questions am reachable through their cool. Awesome nice well. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us as really interesting. I had no idea. We're going to go down and learn about extracting fossils from uruguay and a river. That's amazing where these things are going to take you exactly. That's the beauty of these conversations. Well yeah thanks so much for for taking the time to chat with us and thank you for having me. Thanks again mariana. We can't wait to see what this new and improved and massive new yale. Peabody museum looks like yes. And i also really wanna see the mural since we've never been there Yeah and now to our dinosaur of the day sepia source. Which was a request from paul via our patriotic discord. So thanks okay. You really emphasize the tea in it. I was just a cd source. You're like t source. Oh i didn't even notice. C. t. a. Sorace or cd. Sorace was a horrible lived in the middle jurassic. In what is now. Europe in england france switzerland morocco which is europe but some of those specimens have since actually most of those specimens have since been reassigned to different genera. Cd source is different from another source pod cd osa risks which also lived in the middle jurassic in what is now england since a little confusing. It's very confusing but cto sars anyway. It looks like other sore pods as quadrupedal had the long neck and the small head and sepia sorace oxo nian sus which is the type species as of twenty fourteen. I'll get into the history and a little bit. It's estimated to be fifty two feet or sixteen meters long way. Eleven tonnes sars head a shorter tail and neck the mo- sore pods but tail had at least forty caudal vertebrae and it had relatively long forums. The forum was about the same length as the hind. Limb the dorsal vertebrae in the back. We're heavy. they weren't hollow like other sore pods such as breakfast and being a sore pied. You might have guessed. It was in urban war based on its neck length and limb proportions sepia soros probably was a generalist feeder eating vegetation at low and medium high levels and lived in an area with flood plains and open woodland so sepia sorace was a wastebasket tax in there were eighteen species named and now only one is considered to be valid that sepia source oxo nian says and as i mentioned. Cto sores occitanians is became the type species in twenty fourteen and that one is based on multiple specimens that includes most of the bones but not much of the skull of possibly a brain case the genus name cd sorace means wail lizard. I thought that might be cedo. That's probably why there's the other serious risks to because they're so big like this must be a whale or if they find the vertebrae first then becomes a whale yes and also being found so early before we knew much about dinosaurs so source was described in eighteen. Forty one by richard owen. Her originally thought it was a large marine animal. Maybe a whale maybe a crocodile and he named cds or just before he coined the term dinosaur area but we thought it was a large marine animals. That's why it's not one of the original dinosaurs. Oh interesting. the species name. Oxy's refers to oxford. So john kingdon had reported the first fossils of cd. Soros that were found in chipping norton england in a letter that was read in eighteen. Twenty five to the geological society and then owning the animal and ceasar was first described based on kado vertebrae limb elements and a partial shoulder girdle so without knowing much about dinosaurs. And without knowing anything about sarah pods. I could see how hard to piece together. What would look mostly what they knew back then was that it was a giant who is things they knew that were right. Yeah richer owns said that its bones. Were much bigger than elephants or megalosaurus and that only a guanateed on in wales were similar in size does a quote from the proceedings of the geological society of london in eighteen. Forty two says quote as there is no known extinct saurian which can so nearly compete sides with the ceo. Sores as the aguado on. It is fortunate professor own observes that the distinguishing characters are so well marked and easily recognisable quote is found that one interesting now that we know more. Yes interesting that he didn't think it was a dinosaur but compares it to guana don That's probably because richard owen thought the limb bones were like crocodiles and the vertebrae were like wales. He also thought sepia source was carnivorous. Those early sewer pod depictions. Where their carnivorous yes. Although so mark witton has a fun. Wale like version of cd. Sorace based on. Richard owens description and. Thank you to our patron morgan for the link. It's got this long tail of big middle and strong jaws just looked so different from how we know seediest or as looks now presumably without the skull. If you're just basing what the head might be like on the vertebrae and things. You'd never expected to have this little puny head at the end. It's true later. Richardo and did classify cd sores as a crocodilian and then in eighteen forty two. He named two additional species. Cd sorace hype. Lucas and cd sorace epi lithographs based on fossils found in yorkshire and then that same year he named four more species hunches Cd sores bravest the short one cd sorace bracket reuss. The short tailed cds. Auras media's the medium size and cbs auras longest the long one take it easy with oecd source too many cvs stores well when he was naming those four new ones. He used the fossils from the cd. Sores hypothesis and cd source at beulah. Ficus said they stopped using those two names at least so that does add to the confusion because he named the two species cd sores. Highly thickest and cd sores bula thickest first but then when he named the four additional species he stopped using those two names because he used the fossil from those two species to name his other four species so those two got like reinterpreted into the other. Four names yes weird and then in eighteen forty nine. it was founded. Some of those fossils were from guangdong today. Speaking of iguana. Yeah so alexander melville in eighteen forty nine named the fossils that were from soya pods from which turned out to be from cd source. Bribes as cd sorace conybeare. But then that didn't really make sense. It just made cd source. Conybeare is a junior synonym of cd source. Brady's yeah but this was before the icn. And i guess it sounds like richard elm was doing similar stuff renaming his own species two new species to skip boy at richard owen. Thought that cd source was a crocodile as late as eighteen fifty nine than they figured out that it was a dinosaur presumably. Thomas huxley said it was a dinosaur in eighteen sixty nine. Oh nice there was a right femur sepia source axioms is found in eighteen sixty eight by workers and then professor john phillips excavated from eighteen sixty nine to eighteen seventy and found three skeletons those filled in the missing pieces and made it obviously dinosaur rather than a whale or crocodile So phillips named two species in eighteen seventy one their cto source sonian sizes and sepia sores clipped analysis and then in eighteen seventy one. He also suggested that cd source was an herb avarice dinosaur in a monograph twist. Yeah so changed a lot in those thirty ish years and in eighteen seventy five richard owen said. Cd source was a large aquatic dinosaur. So he came around to the dinosaur park. Yeah that was par for the course that these huge animals couldn't live on land. At least i think that was well into the twentieth century when people started really fully coming around on them being terrestrial Then after eighteen seventy five. There's not too much on. Cd source until nineteen sixty eight. When a new cd source axion specimen was found. That one's called the rutland dinosaur and was found by somebody who was driving an excavation vehicle at the base of the rut formation in england and his rutland dinosaur is the most complete zora pod found in the uk which is why. Sometimes you might hear people say cd sources. The most complete sore pod in the uk cool. It's about forty percent complete and includes most of the cervical bones. Most of the dorsal vertebrae part of the sacred and anterior caudal chevrons illion rate femur and rib and lymph and rib and limb fragments. He no skull. Yes it's about forty nine feet or fifteen years long and since one thousand nine hundred eighty five has been on display in the museum and art gallery. And if you're trying to find the rutland dinosaur near googling. Lester spelled l. e. v. e. s. t. e. r. I would spell. Lester yes well as an american yes. That's true. if you live near there you might know how to spell it as so. Cd sarah's again was a wastebasket taksin. Thirteen species of ct sorace have been named on fossils. That were found in england. Three from france one from morocco and one from switzerland. That has a lot of species. Yes well what made this very confusing. Was that richard owen. Initially named cit source without giving it a species name it was just a genus. Yeah most people talk about dinosaurs. Who needs the species name but then you name eighteen days. It gets very confusing. Drew so sepia source media was traditionally considered to be the type species of sepia source. And richard did say so shortly after naming it in eighteen forty two article richer lie decker assigned cd source. Ach sonian says as the type species in eighteen eighty eight but by modern rules of the icbm the original author. Richard owen is the one who would select the type species in two thousand three and two thousand nine paul upchurch and john martin look through all the species of cd soros and found most of them to be invalid because a lot of them were based on fragmentary material. Yeah we're at the time. They seemed unique. But now that we've found so many more zora pods. We look at them. We're like that's just not. It's not enough if they also found some of the species to be valid dinosaurs but they were just different types of dinosaurs not pods interesting. Or maybe some orban's but yeah just not which is kinda funny because in nineteen o five paper on parts of the skeleton. Cd zora's leads by and it was a new specimen found near peterborough. That said quote. This specimen is so well preserved that since its acquisition by the british museum it has been possible to mount the various bones on ironwork in their natural position. And there was a chain of ten small vertebrae and they said quote a chain of such vertebrae the end of so massive and animal as cd source must have been especially liable to accident. It's like that second quote about being liable to accident but the main thing here was that they thought it was so well preserved and you know they could mounted so easily but in two thousand three paul upchurch and john martin found that there was noth- nothing diagnostic in that species and they've found that that species was a gnome. Do him so back then. A amazing specimen from nineteen zero five became a not even very useful specimen in two thousand three So upchurch martin proposed to the ict and to change the type species from sepia source media's because they found many as to be invalid due to the fossils not being distinct enough to become cd source oxo neons and they found five tap amore. Fay's of cd source occitanians including having these quote unquote pyramid-shaped neural spines. The dorsal vertebrae and icn accepted the proposal in twenty fourteen. Which is why as of twenty fourteen. The type species is cd source. Sony ince's so upchurch jemaine proposed that the rutland dinosaur be the lecco type for cd soros arksansas which makes sense. The most complete scientists have suggested sepia source to be closely related to neo. Soro pods so cd. Stores may help the origins of neo pods. You can see a cd or statue at eddyville family theme park in massachusetts and there are cds ours fossils in the collections at the museum of gloucester nice. I don't know if we have them one on our map. Double check and as promised since its world metrology day or at least it is the day after this episode comes out. I've got some measurement tastic fun facts to go through. All right yeah. Meters in particular are great. Which is why we include them in almost all of our measurements. Even though we're based in the us because eventually the us is going to get round to the metric system. We sort of do already but not. We're not really in it yet. Almost dead once. We almost did a couple of times. I think in then ninety four or something. There was a new law that said you have to write the metric components on most things which is why like soda bottles have the fluid ounces and the milliliters on them to maybe people will get used to it eventually and then we can switch over but in the meantime it has been getting more common and what. I started my engineering degree. Fifteen years ago we only use units because the math is much easier which is nice because it gets crazy if you try to use fahrenheit and all these things when you're doing engineering it's terrible. I don't know how anybody ever accomplish that. Kelvin kelvin is fantastic. That's sl version. Oh what was i thinking. Maybe ranking could be. That's like the american version of calvin basically zero is absolute zero. But it scales all weird anyway. I digress so twenty. Twenty one theme for world metrology day is measurement for health. And just like all the useful ways types of measurements. You can do to keep track of health. I came up with a few dinosaur examples. So the first category is in length which is in the metrics measured in meters or in derived units like millimeters square centimetres or leaders. Those are all just derivation of the meter. A leader as ten by ten centimetre by ten centimeters case. Didn't know most papers have tons of links listed when it comes to paleontology it seems like that's the unit everything is in is in centimeters meters millimeters. They're used for the sizes of bones they're used for individual features us ratios of lengths. All over the place for different species and it's it's just a super useful unit. One of the ways you can use it for health is the femur or humerus cross sectional area or the circumference can tell you roughly how much the animal wade and then potentially i suppose you could figure out if it was underweight for thinking about it in a health context you could also look at the depth or with of pits which are caused by allergies. Obviously we'll tell you how injured the animal is and you can look at the volume of tumors the other way. You can use the leg in dinosaur health as well as lots of other uses for length because it's pretty ubiquitous there's also one that's sort of not the most interesting metric because it's essentially discreet counts of things or counts per area which are measured in number or number per area so for example the number of legs in bone can tell you how old an animal got or if it died prematurely you can also look at the number of pathologies Bones which will tell you if it was infected or sick and potentially how infected was compared to other similar dinosaurs. How much a disease had spread things like that. And you can look at in some cases the count or density of parasites like those worms in titanic toe bone. We talked about recently where they were like in the blood vessels variant of that one. But yeah there were a lot. There was a high density of those parasites so that times over his probably having a rough time. then one last category. I came up with for metrology of dinosaur. Health is the composition chemically of the dinosaur bones which is obviously more difficult to measure accurately and a little bit less connected to the health potentially than some of the other measures technically. It's account of particles but usually the unit that we're talking about here moles or a ratio of moles. And if you remember from chemistry moles from avocados number. Our account of atoms. So we're not talking about weight or anything like that. We're talking about individual atoms at this point but it's useful when you're doing ratios because you can talk about moles of one thing divided by moles of another thing that mainly this comes up when it comes to health is with a paleo thermometer where we can actually measure the temperature of an extinct animal from their fossil based on ratios of oxygen isotopes in the bones by using molar ratios. In that way so to sum up we can estimate animals size weight and temperature by using these different metrology techniques. But we can't estimate way more things. I was thinking about like. All the stuff you get done on your physical. The first thing they do is they. Check your height and weight and your temperature but they also often check your blood oxygen saturation and your blood pressure. And then if they're doing any kind of blood analysis look like platelet count all that kind of stuff and you can't do any of those things any other things that rely on. A liquid measurement just goes away too quickly from the soft tissue. That doesn't fossil is just emphasize how useful having a universal system of measurement is since that's really what world metrology a day is all about. I have a couple dinosaur measurements in unusual units. I always like to do this world metrology day. Maybe i've only done one other time. I don't remember you doing this. The links and i was talking about like hands for like measuring the length of dinosaurs called out world. Metrology day. Before i did yes i plan on doing it every year if i remember because i love world metrology day. There's so many fun ways to measure dinosaurs. But this time i wanna talk about the time since dinosaurs went extinct so in non. Si units dinosaurs went extinct zero point two nine galactic years ago. Galactic year is how long it takes us or more specifically the sun to orbit the center of our galaxy. So they're a little more than a quarter revolution of the galaxy ago. The dinosaurs went extinct. You could also express that as two hundred seventy pluto kilo annum ago that's how many times pluto orbited the sun. Yeah or sixty six megahertz ago. That's one we're used to Or just for fun. One point seven four nights ago. Okay so one. Point seven billion times fourteen days and as a fun like cocktail party aside a micro fortnight or at one millionth of fourteen days is one point. Two zero nine six seconds. I wonder how often this would come up at a cocktail party. People use it as a fun joke. Like rather than saying secons museum micro fortnight's it'd be like i'll be back in. Like thirty micro fortnight's really like it. Sakata jokes i enjoy and if you want to do it in sl it's two point one peta seconds ago or two point one. Quadrille ian seconds is sixty six years. So i think of all these. The galactic year has probably the closest one to the geological time scale. Where you don't have to use crazy huge like giga mega prefixes to go with it and if you use the galactic year the mesozoic lasted from one point. One to zero point two nine galactic years ago which means that non avian. Dinosaurs as a group almost made a full revolution around the galaxy. Such a successful group. I really was but if you include birds into the group of dinosaurs than they have made it all the way around because Takes two hundred and thirty million years and the oldest dinosaur fossils are about two hundred and forty million years old so they did it pretty impressive just for context. Humans have been around for about zero point. Zero zero one galactic years or one mila galactic year. A much shorter amount is a hard one to use day to day because a day is about twelve a pico galactic years. But we're we're talking about paleontology. It's not so bad if you remember. Yeah yeah exactly. Which is why world metrology day is important because we all just use the same year and then it's so easy to talk across all these boundaries there isn't one group that's using these crazy galactic ears and somebody else who's in giga four nights or polluted akilah lanham and the aware to choose. Yeah i was trying to find them. That when like kilo mega giga all the way up to head up. There isn't an easy one in between giga fortnight's and peta seconds. There's no good tara. One sale. And that wraps up this episode of i know dino thanks for listening and also i just wanna mention the apple. Podcast app got updated. And so it's not showing the links to any of our stuff and a lot of other apps. also don't show it so if you wanna see the links to all the news stories we mentioned in this episode and a bullet list of all the details about the dinosaur of the day. Sabrina went through. Then you can go to donald dot com and that has the full list and also if you subscribe to our newsletter than will e mail you that list of links and details every week when the show comes out. Thanks again and until next time.

menefee sarah topsy dino sarah thompson Di giacomo sarah yale peabody museum henry new mexico Sepia soros Sophie yuan pippa neil overnighter Rex kessler sabrina daito sebastian dahlman Menefee paul sealy
Rogue Talk Radio with guest Terry Lovelace

The RIFT Radio Podcast Network

1:59:36 hr | 9 months ago

Rogue Talk Radio with guest Terry Lovelace

"Locked talk radio Everyone here at the rift radio network would like to welcome you to tonight's special broadcast. This work is protected by creative commons license. And now a word from our sponsors run gum dot virginia. This fall to experience the creepiest place around. Take part and the ghost tours produced by marty cbo and the residents of sun ticket prices rage from eight to thirteen dollars. Private group rates are available. Learn more and investigate details of mary baldwin from the mary baldwin college the old western state asylum and much more for tour times ticket prices end dates visit their website at www dot gov dot com or call five four zero four four eight two seven four three available tour dates are limited and filling up fast. Make sure to secure reservations for this ball season. Get out of the house and become a part of history. The of starting tours only in virginia's shenandoah valley. Cdc guidelines are followed and for questions. Please visit www dot ghost of starting dot com or call five four zero four four eight seven four three good evening. Everybody and welcome to rogue talk radio on the rift radio network. I'm sheila gay. And i'm here with my co host kirby debris hey curbs a little. Hello how're you doing. I'm doing pretty well. it's Pretty nice night so well. That's all we can ask for. Sometimes it's pretty nice night coming down off the high of finally invested again. I have to say. I'm coming down off the the the high that night but the show why didn't get much sleep. The low we were up very late Investigating doing a public investigation in jefferson. Texas out are really awesome place. I mean we have a great time. Curbs and i always have a great time and and you. You actually saw something there. We were at the heywood. Heywood house that right heywood health. Yeah that was pretty cool. Tell everybody about what you saw I saw a apple full. I guess say full body apparition shadow. I really only saw A face and the head upper body. I guess but I saw a woman in the doorway Real enough. I thought it was one of the guests and i got up to go and see See what they were looking at in the other room. I found on any room. So i have seen something that that. Yeah lear that yeah. I mean it. I definitely thought oh. Someone's in there. I need to go and see what they're up to and Oh yeah no. No one's here. That may that may tonight and see the investigation as investigators know sometimes we do hours and hours and hours with nothing so to have groups coming through and we had a lot of flashlight activity and and you know smaller things going on but it was exciting still for us but then the apparition that was so totally cool from where you were standing you could see clearly and described it very very close what someone else said they saw so there is verification on what you know what you were saying as well i just think totally them so we can't wait we just love his free Yeah another person felt it was while night That's what we live for. The wild grew wild and crazy paranormal fine. So we'll be looking forward to history legends legends and spring again. But tonight we have on terry lovelace and have to say we enjoy our. I know i do. And i know you do so. I'm going say we enjoy speaking with terry. He's so intelligent and his story is so clear what he went through and he's been on several times before but he's never got to the part where he finished it because we get so excited about what happened to him without hearing everything yet then i wanna hear it all You know maybe a little faster and the stuff that we don't know yet so excited i can't yeah can't stand it. Be i think that it the hardest to for me and others to believe alien stories but his is so it just seems so much going on. Yeah and he's so intelligent and being in the military at the time and another person seeing it an all the things that happened to him because he was a witness. Yeah credible beautiful word. He should be calling in soon. So i'm really really excited. Talk to him. I okay he he. He's gonna call it nine zero five central. That's not right is it. He's eastern Yeah nine oh. Five would be an hour from hope. Not i'm visit. What time zone isn't it. It's what are they in. Where's he at tennessee. She would know within two in eastern. We're in central so okay okay. So he needs call in now please. It's it's eight o'clock central. Yeah yeah if he if he's saying he's not funding calling in so nine we were on our Not unplanned yeah that i sent him a message back just i didn't realize but central he had just sent it right before recalled but this i need we need the two hours. Because he's amazed balls. I mean so this up doing other. Show the saying I don. I thought i had specific specific. That's what i'm saying curbs. I've had to have everybody know how little widdling on my lip today possible cancer but we're voting no so. I had this big bandages from today's voting. No on i. Yes please. I mean i know i told stories About not stores on my real life. And all the things that i've been through. But i don't need to add anything else. People just saying to the universe. So if i sound a little audits because the tape keeps covering my lip it is what it is and we're going to hope for the best but i hope he calls in otherwise we got a whole hour to fill with me and you and where we need people in there other stories. Don't you think tonight we could do it but we didn't. We didn't plan for this. We're not we're not for that people Yeah yeah he's not. he's not answering no i. I didn't realize he bombs. I don't think. I put that on there but everyone knows it's a little sketchy when you're in sheila's world But but that's not what the sh the show. You know. The the the whatever i make week said so i'll just roll up on him to call and see what happens. This is how we do when she when she lives in control of radio. How's it going rogue whatever the call and he's getting. oh what the heck put him on speaker You live with group. Talk radio here ringing. Hi this is keri voice. Sorry district important the call. Hey terry it's not We're central time is. Eight o'clock is time to show starts. So we're trying to do it without you. And kirby and i are failing because you are an amazing storyteller teller so please please call it by. Just do the another embarrassing in person live on air. It's my strong suit. Well he probably went and ate dinner doing his own thing. So talk a little bit about you. Know what we did this weekend. I don't know. I don't wanna tell the whole story. He's he's got too much cool stuff to talk about himself at an amazing book out as well. So let's get a topic here curves. 'cause i'm hurting I think we got him now. We got somebody else got. No we got howie. We're gonna talk to how we talk to me. How he we got. I think that are terry got messed up. And he thought he was not supposed to call until nine zero five our time. Could i do a hot mess. I swear he he knows but he just got confused. I guess i even called them live on air and got his message. You know how. I'll just do things whatever i want. You know what i'm talking about. So the goal would do how this is a surprise when expected to come on Well that's part of rogue talk radio. We're off the hallway. That's down thrown real quick. Everything's going really good The progression of the network The direction that you and i talked about is is coming to fort white. But i'm going. Oh this is exciting crap So cat nyerere doing really well created some really do stuff going on. So you know is going pretty good. I'm i have no complaints here. Now terry's calling me back Well he would put him live. Got him hey jerry. Hey jerry hold on hi terry. Yeah we're on the radio show now. It's eight o'clock central. call you. Yeah well you man shut the doors. We don't hear the cats and i'm ready to raw. Okay we'll call back in on the guest call in number if you will thank scary by talk. We just do that. Where do i live. How is it going. what is she doing. You never know what. I'm gonna do already knew that it's like i'm i'm rogue. Yeah yeah the fun. Part of hot it would make this show. I learned a call back this number again. He's killing me his message. This is the first time Let me cinnamon number. This is how we roll on. Live radio you just never know what's gonna happen. Three to eight Yeah you don't realize that. I could just speak to just like i know i'm giving people the wrong number plenty of times. Trust me. i had him dang it he was on here and i looked down and looked up. Well you know what. Maybe i should just be fired. I'm gonna fire myself. But not until i'm done with this show and this year next year and on and on and on didn't yeah not ready for so no fire to build i this lip. I gotta stop laughing and smiling. 'cause they whittled on me and it hurts thank you. How are you going to stay on here for a little bit. I am gonna hang out. Thanks for three months at hi. Everybody doesn't agree sakes hunt terri. Hi hugh or how are you. I'm yes i'm on the men that i'm trying not to smile and laugh too much thing. 'cause also directs the little with. They whittled on me who i and they did it. Like at four o'clock today and now the part that makes it not hurt as worn off. Yeah but i'll be all right. We'll just overlook it and go on. That's part of being rogue right. That's right that's right so i i said fake. We have terry on because he's such a great speaker. And i don't have to ask too many questions although i do because i'm just loved. Ask questions and i love your story. And i want you to tell it again and finish it. 'cause i've been waiting all this time and some of it but i don't know all of it. I said they had to win lawn. You you know. I'm just using some southern words I'm wondering i so. I still can't get the hang of san. Y'all just can't get that y'all got me too. I'm from california so everybody or not. Y'all br this hour it's okay. i'm here with her. My my co-host curve uber. I'm here to curry how you doing. I'm doing well good. So i rest my story. I think i remember what we even left off. I mean did yes we are. We didn't entire two hours and didn't finish it before so we're going to let you tell however you want to because it is the most amazing story and you're so credible and i've had a few other people on that have had nothing as big as you but something else that was You know alien related and were very credible to so it starting. You know i know. There's not a credible people in every aspect. But there's some that just aren't but not terry. He's for real people. That's right that's right. I'm more and more credible. People i think for stepping forward and and and speaking their mind and talking about it. And that's a good thing so yes well probably go back. I think where. I left off and tell me if i'm wrong. Refresh my memory. But i think i left off When i say goodbye to my friend toby. I don't think that we got into the My interrogation with the office of special investigation and interrogation room in the hypnosis and stuff. Yeah tell us tell that so. Okay for their. yeah. I believe that sounds right. Yeah does pick it up the last and that was when i when i told my friend. Goodbye i Iran bias house. We were under contact order and in case you had just a brief back story The happening in june of nineteen seventy seven. I was a medic and. Nt you know first. Responder drove an ambulance and stuff. And i worked the night shift using ship from eleven o'clock. Pm till eighty following morning and my friend My coworker for three years almost was Guy refer to as toby tobias. And we're not only work together. We were very very tight. Good friends We're both married Our wives got along together. Great sort of worked together socialize together played cards barbecued. I just remember just friends. So we My my buddy had the idea to go camping at a place called devil stint state. Park down in north western arkansas We went and we trust passed through a chain across the gate and we went on this high plateau and set up camp. We didn't stay in a camp ground. Wanted to be real outdoorsman right so long and the short of it is that We were we were taking that night and we Left sometime in the early morning After we saw the thing of ship takeoff And we were hurt pretty bad. You were burned We had flash burns to her is And we we were so scared that we hopped in the car and just left after town. We left you now toby's backpack with his camera and everything in it his cooler. We left everything. We just took our key mike. My car keys walla That's how frightened we were and we drove back to base and When we got back to base it's important to To to To note that we were under a no contact order I was having no contact with toby. Had no contact with me and it went beyond that They were you know it was. It was an order and it went down that it was you know i wasn't supposed to get him anything. Give me anything. We weren't trying to try to communicate with one another through third parties. We weren't to talk on the telephone or pass notes and on and on and on and just you know what seems like silly stuff And toby was gone in a matter of weeks they shipped him off. Pcs to japan and They put me in a different squadron. for the few weeks it took to get him off the base So a few weeks after. Toby had left I had been interrogated while i was in the hospital room by. Us i That's the air force office of special investigation in case you're unfamiliar Os i is to the air force. Ncis to the navy and it's got it's kind of investigative branch so I'm still at Working in the supply squadron. Doing you know busy. Work when I got a call from a commanding officer. Mike commanding officer To come to his office. I actually i saw you called me and said you know but see all wants to see you so You know that's always bad. You know really good goodness you know so I rocked up my little shop. Where i was working in iran his office and he said the us. I have spent has sent a car for you. I suggest that you don't keep him waiting. Keep them waiting. And i thought oh man and then you're dismissed And i ran up the front right out of the front of the building and to the front steps and Sure enough there's a blue police squad car pool right up in front and you know and then uniform i got my name tag on and the guy gets out of the car and says are you sergeant bombay. So i'm like oh yeah He opened the door for me. Puts me in the back seat. First time i've ever been in the back of a police car you know. It's kinda spooky. No door handles no window things you know. He smoke smell bad too. It was just a three minute ride to your side headquarters and when we got there He opened the door and said follow me. And i did. And we went through a set of double locked doors where he pressed the button. And then there was a buzzer and when the buzzer sounded he could open the door and we walked in. And then between the two doors. He pressed the second and then the button and the buzzer sounded. And then we got into the main building and he took me down a corridor long quarter and it was lined with these interrogation booths on either side and they were designated alphabetically. Abcd and i think the rim that i was in actually was e and it was the last room on the right And these are tiny rooms about the size of my like my guest bathroom. you know. they're just they're small and He opened the door with the key. And said you know have a seat. Someone will be right with you know. This is about ten minutes to nine in the morning right So i'm sure this was all theater. This is all done. Purposefully everything they get purposeful. Nothing's done on accident Everything was fine design. So door shots. And i look around and i see that i'm in this small room and there is a nineteen fifties vintage Battleship gray metal desk in the middle of the room But it's got a comfortable padded cheer on rollers. So i took the comfortable chair and there were three other cheers. They were those fiberglass cheers used to see in the seventies. Were all over the place. They looked like a scoop and they and they were made out of fiberglass and aquinas yellow and green and red so there was one of those and each corner and there was a framed mirror on the wall and I had thought some time. I was twenty two. Who would be grooming themselves in an interrogation room and you know. And then course it's not a matter grooming. It's a two way mirror. And i wanted to get a cup my hands and look through it But it didn't have the nerve to do that and the only other thing in the room was a schoolhouse. A general electric schoolhouse clock above the door. And i sat there. And i sat there and it was nine thirty. Ten o'clock it was eleven o'clock it was eleven thirty and then it's almost noon and the to oocyte agents they came to visit me at the hospital came in through the door and they completely ignored me at first and they were talking about golf. I believe talking about golf. Game and they All and and then the major the guy in charge of course kicked me out of the comfortable chair and made me ram on the fiberglass moods and They settled down and he looked at me and he said well. Did you find your camera or anything for me. And i said no sir and you know and that was the truth. I what we saw that night. I didn't take a single picture I actually hit left camera at home. I mean toby camera but You know taking photographs of the thing never crossed our minds. We never thought to take a picture and this What was i agent guy who was put on such a tough guy act when he saw me at the hospital Was kinda like well. That's okay I don't think it matters at this point he says. Would you like to close your case today and it said yesterday i would like that very much and i mean you know. They told me you gotta key. I don't know i've never been to the crime Other than giving them film. That i don't have that they keep demanding. I mean i've not. My knowledge violated section of the uniform code of military justice. I'm not done anything wrong But here i am scared to death in this interrogation them so the The major the guy in charge says You know you're going to be hypnotized today. And i said no sir. I didn't know that i didn't know what i don't. I don't know why. And he interrupts me and he says and they're going to give you some medication in your arm. It'll help you remember. And then we can be sure that the story that you told us Is true that you've been honest with us. Now you've been honest with up you. And i said yes sir. I've been honest with you. I told you ally. And i had at that point. I mean i left some significant details out of the story. But i certainly hadn't lied to anyone Unless you count live by admission omission so I said sure. I don't understand why and i'm kind of arguing with the guy because i'm scared to death. I don't wanna be hypnotized. I certainly don't want to be administered any medication and he blew up and he you know turned on the tough guy. Woke again and veins are standing out in his neck and he reaches in his briefcase and he pulls out a envelope and a form and he slams it on the desk and he points to my signature and this is the guy that had the southern accent right. And he asks you know. Is that not sure signature. Some and i said yes sir. It is and he says well. That's all i need. And i just felt defeated and and then and then he says to me. Is you know you don't have to do this today. And i said. I don't. I mean say absolutely. Not if you don't want to do this he says i'll tell you what i can tear these papers up. Because when i was in the hospital. I had signed a bunch of consent forms and i had had these flash burns to my is basically like sons burned to the cornea of your eye and they Life softener room and it puts savanur. I my vision was blurred. I couldn't i sign these forms. I couldn't read a word of y signed And one of the forms. That i signed the one that i was looking at was consent to hypnotic regression with chemical enhancement. There's words to that effect and i thought You know we can tear this up. I really don't have to do this. And he said sure no problem And of course he's bathing right And he says he says just tear these up and we'll just see the court martial. How about that. Oh my and now you know not my head spinning because you know i'm thinking more so i haven't even been charged with a crime you know but i knew my fear. My fear was that I knew it. Probably lock me up someplace for a year before i even had the court martial and then Who knows what they might charge. I don't even know what they could be charged with you. I could go to leavenworth. I could you know lots of very bad. Things can happen. So i had to make a decision and i decided that i was going to just roll with an ascend And hope for a good outcome. And that's what. I did Man so that you had to be you had to be so frightened of all that right. I mean i know i was scared. Cool my gosh. i was absolutely yeah heard about And i didn't want to tell them you know. I told them when we got back. We didn't feel well went to bed. Woke up six dogs and then came home. You know the whole thing about seeing a ufo the size of walmart. I left that part out because I didn't warn you know. And they bring they do that so we we do out. Everyone else in asking a question if you Know any of this may be connected to. Adm me may or professor. Von braun. admiral. He said no. I don't. I don't know i've never heard those before now. I have heard stories from other people who had this done and i spoke with them and The stories they tell me. The details are so similar very believable. And most of them are my sister in their sixties and early seventies now and they certainly have no reason to lie You know they don't want their name. Disclose schools but they'll share with me and You know. I think there was an awful lot of that. Went on in the seventies. Maybe even as early ages right okay. Okay that that answer this question. Thank you sit russo. You were you were going through that that with your eyes and everything That is the whole thing is crazy to me. I can't imagine the fear not the fear. Only what you went through but now what you're going through you know the military. Oh yeah yeah. I mean you know. E- took off and flew away They're gone but I gotta with the united states air force so Right then they were the more they were there more imminent threat. So i should get onto the set at this time when when we finish this back and forth about tearing up the papers or are and i said no chicago had cooperate. There's a knock at the door. And the captain who's the fiberglass cheers close to the door opens it And this guy walks in. And he's a major big barrel chested guy with blond hair and he had oak leaves on his collar but he had no name tag which is unusual Usually everybody has named unless there are general than they don't need the name but he came in and ignored me at first and shook hands with both the agents and anything talked about Golf or something for a few minutes. I guess i guess he didn't fish but they they they got into conversation and they obviously they knew and we're comfortable with one. Another it done. This before is is is the point of the exercise so They finish their little back and forth and then he turns to me and he holds out of hand and he shakes my hand and he says sergeant bubbly. It's so nice to finally meet you. And i said yes sir. Thank you sir. I shouldn't give any sits down a pool up this chair. He kicked the major out of the comfortable chair. And he took it over of course And he rolls that chair right up next to me and right into my personal space. And he says Terry you trust me. And i thought do i trust us to like hell i try i address you but you know i i mean i. I said the civil the polite thing that most people would say. I sent you know. Of course i trust you major. And he says and terry can i ask you for purposes of today's little is only which you call me brad instead of nature that it's my name and yet whoa is right. I thought how pretty begin this guy. The and i said yes sir any so i know what you mean. Yes brad and i said yes. Bread and focuses of today's little exercise me. I just call you terry. That issue name. And i said sure. Wow and yeah. The guy was creepy. He was creepy. But then you know he kinda shifts gears he says i know you're from saint louis and i said yes and he started reading awesome man marks and some restaurants and You know we started having this little back and forth and he's looking at me and smiling and nodding thaddeus had we do this for about five minutes and then it strikes me you know. I'm not all that interesting. I'm twenty two years old. I'm just not that fascinating And that that really made me put my guard up i. I felt that the sky was trying to get next to me. And i think he perceived think he picked up on that feeling. 'cause he shifted gears right away and he said no trace of what i'm gonna do is i'm going to. We're going to do some Progressive relaxation exercises. And then i'm gonna have you count that we're going to go down a set of stairs to the basement internal light on and look around and see what's down there and all you have to follow my instructions and listen to my voice and this guy. He had the smooth voice. I mean like a radio announcer. Like like paul harvey or something. If anybody remembers him. I mean you know he was easy to listen to is my point And he He had this little shaving kit like thing mother under his arm and he opened it up and and laid it out on the table. There was a little tile. There was a syringe medication recipe so repertoire beings alcohol swabs bandaids and he lays this all out real meticulous thing humming to himself. You know and takes them a minute or two. And then he's Okay terry He says. I want you to close your eyes and relax. And then he's he goes through this. Relax your body relax your mind relax relax and you know he's gonna start with your toes. Relax your toes feel them. They're relaxed feeling afoot relaxed now and on and on and on and when i did was you know i didn't. I didn't think that i could assist the drug. And i was right about that But i felt pretty confident that i couldn't resist the Losses you know. I have been taking psych classes in the evening for two years. My undergraduate degree is in psychology. And i knew that i couldn't be enticed against my my will so what i did was i was determined to do everything i could to covertly resist so when he gets me this this command. You know tense the muscles in your calf muscles tense than tighter. Tighter tighter tighter now relaxed them and you know every time he was telling me to tense my muscles. Relax you know. I tried to do the opposite of everything that he was telling me I also in this. This sounds crazy but it was just something. I thought of at the moment and i think that it worked. And that was that was gonna like feifer cape my mind. That was going to split it in two. I was gonna take half my mind. And yeah i'll let this guy have have you. I'm gonna keep half to myself. And i'm gonna keep it occupied. So i started playing music in my head going through lyrics and then multiplication tables and then you know rolling stones and then i mean you know all these things i could think of occupy half of my mind so i wouldn't have to surrender the whole thing to him and he began to hypnosis thing and and i'm like relaxed position with my head on my chest come back on a sleep and Since okay. We're going to go down the stairs now. Jury we're going to go into the cellar and see what's down there. And he says but i promise you nothing down. There can hurt shoot. You're only going to see memories. Nothing leave real. I'm right here with you. i can hold your hand. You know you're very safe or warm thinking okay. I don't feel so safe but any tells then you know. Take that first step carry. Take that first step to relax. Take that second step now feeling twice as relaxed feeling comfortable feeling warm feeling safe. Kick that search. I'm walking up the staircase right. I'm doing everything opposite that that he can tell me and he finally gets me down ten stairs and he says Okay so this cherry. We need to turn the light on. He says he's a cord hanging down right in front of your face. He says. I want you to reach up with your right hand and pull that court. Turn the light on so we can see and i waited because i wanted to see if my arm would move involuntarily and it did not Stayed still so he said it again. A little more forcefully turn our reach up and pull that chain at the pull chain. Alright and i but it was. It was it was voluntary. Was i did it. You know purposefully intentionally. I reached up with my hand and made a motion. Like i was pulling a chain and then i put my hand back in my lap and that satisfied him And i think that also convinced me that i was not hypnotized And then he gave me medication and You know he wrote up my sleeve and he did the alcohol swab thing any says. You know i'm gonna give you a little bit medicine terry. And by the way. I found out what the medication is I was told that it's sodium. Amital it's a short acting hypnotic So they had to use it several times What they say hypnotic they they classified correctly 'cause when he soon as he put that plunger and i mean it was like bam it was like it. Hit me And i was in a twilight. I was in another place. I was in twilight zone. I was out of it And that was very relaxed. Then i'll tell you And he says Jerry says i understand that you. Toby went on a little camping trip. Is that right. And i guess brad and he says solve some funny lights in the sky didn't you and i said yes brad and he said that they weren't funny lights at all. Were they terry. And i said no brad. They want any. So what were they cherry telling me and i said this came out on now. I said that was space. People i could not believe those words came out of my mouth I did not formulate the thought to form those words that came out of my mouth. I swear and i you know so that when you see on. Tv and they use sodium pentothal or whatever its troops truth serum people. I think there's absolutely something to all of that So he went through asking me. And what's what's wild is that under this Effects of medication. I really was able to recall details and things that i didn't remember really here Quite a bit more detail and I always had this disclaimer. You know that. I've never had a clear. Linear memory of everything that happened to me. That night But he pulled up. That's and pieces and And you know it was kind of like watching a movie in your head. I could replay reality but i could replay the images One point. I got kind of scared. I don't remember what it was. Something that i was looking at that was inside the ship. Scared me and And he was taking my blood pressure and You know there's this thing that kinda calmed me down And i can't remember. I don't know how much detail i gave about what i actually saw inside the ship But i can provide that again. Provides more Some clarity Because there's only a handful of little vignettes like little stories. That happen when i was in there that i remember and What i remember was that remember going to sleep inside the tent. And the next thing i knew toby and i were standing side by side. And we were inside this thing and it was immense. I mean it looks like a walmart from the outside from inside like football stadium. Now i don't know maybe they took us some place else. I had no idea but the inside area of this craft did not match the outside area. Huge difference yeah. So i'm standing there. And i have my clothing all of my klay taken all of our clothes off. I had all my clothes in my hand. And i'm holding in my hands in front of my chest and i can't move. I kinda have the same paralysis. Calvin parker describes so well where he talks about only being able to move as is you know and look around And they had no idea where i was i do. My last memory was so that we've seen this huge area and Just went to that. So i'm terrified and the next thing that i recall hearing a woman scream and And it was a pain scream. It wasn't you know. reach out. Gotcha kind of it wasn't anything like that Whatever made this woman screaming and From that scared me we. I noticed our listeners. Asking if you heard Humming sound where you hearing. Okay good matter of fact. We heard At humming sound When we woke up we could still hear that humming sound and it was a low droning. Noise like You know it. It's the best way. I can describe this as it was more powerful than it was loud. I mean you could feel it in your chest. It was like standing next year. Yeah like standing next to a big locomotive roy. Huge piece of industrial machinery. Was that kind of loud. Yeah that and I was looking around. And this place. And we're standing like in a byzantine. It's kind of an open area. That goes like eight or nine stories tall and there walkways all around And there's a lot of activity and there are a lot of these little grey guys running all over the place And amy assured this with your already. But i'll share it. Yeah because i think it's important And calvin parker and a handful of other people agree with me on this. I don't think those guys are living since beings like you and i. I don't think that they're alive I think they're like some combination or at least the grace that we ran into that night. I'm sure they coming authorize But i think these things were more like robots or something. You know combination. Yeah we do have a question listens. Yeah did you. Do you remember if that's felt like i made your bones vibrate coming remember. Okay thank you feel it. Reverberated my chest. But i wouldn't say that it made my phone phones five. No okay thanks show. This is so creepy to me. All the way around He was and these. These little seems. I'm going through now. These these are the things that have been the subject of my nightmares for forty years. So you know there. Well ingrained in my memory. I mean yes So i'm looking around the ship And it's important to note that i saw Six or seven. And i can't say for sure the count other human beings that i believe were crew members know when i was in that interrogation room and i told brad that i saw Six or seven human beings. And i said i think they were crew members and he said that's really terry what would make you think that they were crew members and i said well they all were ten flight suits with orange insignia on the sleeve they were all nineteen eighteen nineteen years old they all had military haircuts and they all wore issue combat boots and as soon as soon as. I said that there was a flurry of activity. Now i got my eyes close. So i can't see what's going on but i heard the a major But expert of pretty loud. You know yeah So they found that for some reason to be disturbing and He immediately kinda like stopped the course of hypnosis and he says now terry you know there was no spaceship. You know these things you're remembering there. Were never any people there. Orange flight suits. That never happened. That's silly it's silly to can't believe that that's not true. And i thought that reaffirms it in my mind that i'm going to remember this because obviously it's important So i did. I did my best to keep that memory sharp and and hold onto it 'cause i thought it was important and And i thought it was my you know my memory you know. I'm i experienced that. I'm not gonna let them take it away from so and these these people they carry themselves like crewmen they You know they wouldn't look at us. One of them was a woman Latino woman maybe like i say eighteen nineteen years old Short ponytail And then the rest of the guys I couldn't see the patches clearly from the distance that we ran. I wish i could. They were tan-colored flight suits and we not branch of the service at that time that that us ten to flight since non not in the united states anyway and they had orange circular orange patches on their shoulders and orange strikes on their chest like the branch of service in your name with the But again we were too far away to clearly see them but the boots sure made an impression on me. 'cause they were just like the ones. I wore Again my my line of sight was visited limited. Rather but that's that's what i saw So we went on and you know he's like what what happened next. Terry what did you see. And he kept saying. Tell me what you see. Don't tell me what you think or what you feel. Tell me what you see. Look and tell me what you see in your mind's eye and like i said it's like playing playing the movie one of the things. I noticed that scares me and one of the things that bothers me to this day. There's that there were group I can't tell it was at least twenty people It was a line of five and they weren't in rows columns and there were five people in front so no from my vantage point being able to turn my head. I couldn't tell how deep that rule was now. There could have been a hundred people you know behind behind him I couldn't tell. I could tell they were probably twenty at least But what was so disturbing. This is a combination of men. Women children this look like Families I mean they just didn't belong you know Yeah and there is there in the same situation. We're in by the way they're all holding their clothing and their hands frozen and there is regarding around all over the place There obviously scared to death. And they're all crying and They kept segregated from from that from that bunch. And i'm glad they did i. I don't want what happened to those four people do when that thing went up in the air and took off You know they kicked us out thankfully but those poor people went up and we're taking for whatever reason to wherever they went And i've always wondered you know what happened to them and survivor's guilt maybe Yeah and then. The next thing was i could see that my friend toby Who had been next to me to my left. That he wasn't there and A few seconds later. I heard him recognized. Choice of course and He didn't scream when he was a yelled. Oh my god no all my god. Oh my god and then he screamed so whatever they did they and And then i'm i'm i'm thinking i'm gonna be next. Yeah and and i was and they came and they got me. It's forty still. Greg is and i'm sliding it's like you know how your stand on one of those Motorized walkways at the airport. I was moving. Wasn't walking my feet. Were like sliding They had me by an elbow again. I'm still holding my clothes in my hand. And i'm gonna lighting down this hallway This is the hallway that i described in the book that had what looked like the fish. Tanks they had fish tanks along the right side of the wall. Let's let's just white. Everything in this place was either white or stainless steel and the place was just insanely lit up. I mean it was like you know. I put five hundred watt bowls. Turn on every lamp in your house. It was and that's an understatement. Crazy insanely which is why. I think we ended up with burns to is but i had my eyes turn to the right and i can see the fish tanks in various sizes and they're all empty a couple of them have pink water in them and then we get to some larger ones. That are you. Know about three foot wide and Maybe a foot and a half keep And they're all stacked on top of one And this one. I saw what looked like a puppy. I took it to be a puppy. Yeah do weren't puppies. Have those skin around all wrinkle when bush born. That's what the like. And i i thought it was a puppy It was floating in this water. I could stand on local core. I don't know what it was hooked up to if anything And as i'm rolling past this thing opened than i. Oh and when it did. I just i just about past Oh so frightening terry. Sky was well. It's the stuff of nightmares. It really were give craft mares surreal. There were there. Were some tubes at the end of the hallway. There were large enough to accommodate a full size human being but thankfully those were empty and they took me into white domed one And there was a An exam table all look like it was porcelain and One of the little guys took my clothing away from me and they like look. There were strong listed me up and put me on this exam table and It's out of the things that you think about. I was thinking Porcelain would feel cold to my skin. but it didn't. And then i thought well surely they didn't. They didn't warmness stuff for my comfort. This is warm because there's been you know probably all night long on and off and that was a frightening and they were doing something to my back and This is kind of hard to explain this whole procedure Had a real clinical feel to it. You know. I didn't feel like i was in a torture chamber. You know. I didn't feel like they're hurt me Whatever i was there for was Intentional and and not malicious. I didn't get a malicious vibe At all about the thing that i saw the foot would have sure that scared me to death but it didn't It was like a seven foot tall secretary looking thing and it looks just like praying mantis. It had the triangular shaped head. It had the two huge boulders size it looks like an insect. And you know. I always always picture this thing in a white lab. You know. I'm sure this thing didn't have on a white coat. But that's maybe that's projection. They gave But like i say it had this medical clinical feel to it and he started doing something to my lower spine and hurt a lot And it was screaming. Or at least i thought it was because it gets filling my lungs with their as much as i could go in and scream as loud as i could and could never hear anything. They didn't understand that and So i kept trying and evidently my my screaming. Must've annoyed dr bug She turns this. This big. you know triangular shaped head in my direction. And i made eye contact with one of the is and i heard him in my head. I mean crystal clear. I heard him in my head. Say why are you screaming. Stop screaming you know. we don't hurt you. You know we take you back now. Stop screaming and he tapped me on the forehead. This big long green digit and i was out. That was my last memory ship. I did have crazy. It's just so crazy. Even they and they so they knew you were hurt you. They didn't do anything i mean. Are they seem like they didn't know it hurt. I don't want him to earth. I thought that they'd be done and you know. I think that. I've wrestled with for years. Is that you know if you hurt somebody and then you raise their memory up okay. You heard them yeah. I think you'd still hurt them. And you're there's there's medication i'm trying to think of the name but Well there are several of them. Medications hypnotic ancients and not only not only put dreamland. Take away the pain. But they also have hypnotic affect So that you don't remember the procedure So it's kinda like surgery they don't want you to remember. Yeah yeah like sort of you for real. I don't wanna remember. I've had a few things. I don't wanna remember the aliens either but you you know you did anyway. You had bits and pieces not. You couldn't put them all together yet. No wow yeah. I did have one other I think it's important. And i think i should share and that is that You know the doctor bug is i. Call has wasn't the most frightening thing that i saw By a long shot. I didn't feel i didn't feel like he was gonna kill me Well hurt me. Maybe but he wasn't gonna kill me The thing that intimidated me the most was We were standing here Frozen holding closing at our hands I'm looking around. And it was an interesting place. I mean say was stainless steel or porcelain. I saw golf cart. Will you know with no wheels. Moving around I could see flying saucers. I mean park like planes under a carrier deck they were just lined up To my left and there was this guy walking around who was different. He wasn't one of the grace he was about. Six foot tall. He wore uniform. I didn't see any insignia rank or anything like that but he He wore a grey uniform with a v neck collar and he wasn't great. She was a chalky whitish pinkish color. Yeah we all use your cards. Widish chalky peak is the best way i can describe his color She had Just to to Nostrils with no cartilage for for news. Same with his ears. No cartilage just holes Barely slipped for them out Sparks hair on top of his head and his eyes wars huge large. And they were. They were jet black and they were like like terra. Wrap around rebates the size and We're actually kind of a kind of a beautiful color. They were deep indigo reflective like like gloss black paint. And what happened was he is walking around and i am thinking to myself. This guy is in a someone in third just ways carrying himself and I'm straining my eyes scores. I can't left and just by happenstance. This guy turns his head. And we locked eyes. And that. Wow scariest thing. That was the scariest thing i am. I ever happened to me. And that's that's been a frequent nightmare over the years. What have we. Who is we locked eyes. I was in my hair No i mean sure he was in my head. I mean she knew me. You know my wife secrets you know my thoughts and everything Like just download my brain. He just download his all my thoughts smy emotions. Everything that's we we. Have someone in the chat. Room wants to know When you mentioned the color white being and you locked eyes was he wearing as v neck top and does even remember any parts of his attire or a parent. Do you remember any. Yeah yeah he was six foot tall. I only saw him once For a total of maybe two minutes When i was locking watching him walk around. And then we had the session. Lot guys But i could see that he wore a Like a gray sweater. Top like saying There had been that to it It was long sweet He also had on pants. And but like seamless boots that We're like almost part of the pants o And that's that's the most thing then. What drew me to look at his feet. Actually i was curious. And he was wearing combat boots to you know. yeah but truthfully. But he wasn't wasn't yeah. We're also oh go ahead. They were also asking. Was there any other feeling. This being other than intelligent intelligence What did he do after reading your mind. Terry's mine did you have any other feeling about that. Be being okay. Go ahead thanks. I thank you for your question All all of it was reflected in those is was raw intellect. I mean you know how. I describe this Probably linked to describe it. And i think it's the best description that i can get is You know we had a dog kids a little That was a just beautiful english. Setter beautiful dog. Big brown eyes and Just a real loving pet And you know at night. I'd be sitting there watching tv. And he would come over and put his head in my lap and i reached down and scratch behind his ears and he looked at me with big brown eyes and We each new rules. You know he knew. I was the alpha and i knew he was the dog and You know we each had our had our rules play. And when i saw this guy it was like i was the dog. That's the best way. I can explain it this thing. So don't i i. I felt like it was five hundred bucks up the evolutionary ladder for me. I felt incredibly interior Physically electorally emotionally on all levels. I just felt inferior rotten. Never you know but I just found this intelligence and his ability to get into my head Just very frightening. I mean you know. I when i saw this guy thought there's nothing these guys can't do absolutely nothing. So their their relevance level is this beyond. I mean here. You were thinking. I i wish i were. I wish i you know was your intelligent person. We know that but here you are with this going on. And you're thinking wow this is you know more than i can even comprehend and and he can just tap into what what you know and all about you because you're not. We'd never tell everybody everything you know. I mean wow yeah. I just felt vulnerable making front of the sky. has a very humbling experience. I have to tell you Because it it drove home for me the fact that you know not only are we not alone but you know we're not the top dog. Oh yeah you know there are being out there. That are much more intelligent than we are. We're just You know just another rock and space with us crawling around on it like bugs and it was. It was a sobering and Humbling experience So yeah that was. That was the scariest thing to happen to me on the chip. So i have to be the scariest thing a your whole life was finding out more scarier more. You know you know that that guy Best security two things scared to things bothered those those poor people that were in there. What happened to them and And then i guy that But i locked eyes with. And you know i i hear and i don't know and people who tell me they know i don't know how they know you know people tell me. Oh yeah that they're human beings are captured And you know david politis. Who wrote the missing. Four one one series makes a darn good argument for that fact With the number of people that go listen from state and federal parks And i was taken from a state park right and and the Circumstances where they find the bodies if they find the bodies you know. The shoes are always missing and Just really really weird circumstances You know like Well in his fourth volume Is called the devil is in the details and that tells the story of Catherine that all that was a little girl I don't know if i told you her story or not. But it it goes to show that these these mysterious disappearances you know they're not they're not accidents they're not serial killer swiping. People were kidnapping them. They're not predation by animals. These people were disappearing going somewhere now. When when. I started investigating devil's den. Because i wanted to find out before the book wanted to find out how it got the name devil and i talked An anthropologist Who recommended me join. Archaeologists steadied the ozark region missouri. Own arkansas and They told me that they find deal with it. Tools all around the park And evidence of all fires and fire camps and the like but never inside the forest inside the state never never inside. The park never never found anything and i asked him to use that strange. Yeah that is kinda strange And that that that territory is not owned but It's claim by two native. American tribes. the cato and casino tribes both have claimed that to tori and i talked to a woman from russellville arkansas. Who is a medicine woman. And i told her. I'm writing a book about devils down. And i'd like to know a little about the history and how it got. Its name and Shoes a little bit hesitant at first but we you know. Talk a little bit and she opened up some. She says that That that area is off limits to her people They say that it's it's cursed ground. They can she. Her words were transit. Cross park you know. If they need to get point eight appointees they can walk across but they can't can't hunt fish spend the night they gotta move and keep moving And you know how. How do you know that when she says well we don't. We don't know why it's just tradition. It's just been that way for hundreds of years so but you know In in his book. Devil in the details David politis for the story of catherine in august. And i tell her story in no forward of my book You know before you get into the Focused self it's in the introduction And i found this actually on my own for david wrote Listen the details in nineteen forty six. There was a family from. Pittsburgh may van ost v. a. n. capital al s. t. and In nineteen forty six. They were traveling from philadelphia from pittsburgh to el paso texas to visit relatives and they plan to spend the night at state park and they did. And it is I posted on my facebook. Page the story original story. The pittsburgh press soviet there somewhere But the the little girl katherine off seven at the time and she had two younger brothers and The first morning there was mother was making breakfast. You know man was still asleep into camper kids running around the campus. Kids will and the two boys pop off from around the camper. And then there's no catherine and it was just that quick and the boys are looking around and the mother's like boys. Where's your sister michael. She was just here and they're both walking around the camper and they can't find her and you know the is not too freaked out but but she annoyed and she says boy school. Find your sister so they do expected things. They run to the restroom and to the little shop thing they had called out her name and searched and They didn't find her so to make a very long story short They had a seven day search. She was going to be After that seventy it was going to transition from the rescue to a recovery She was only seven. She was stressed in shower shoes. Flip flops and a bathing suit. That's all she had on There was That last day there were thousands about tears that searched for her The little rock Civil air patrol sent planes The local college all the students came there were there was no shortage of people looking for her And there was a guy there Senator from my time Anyway there's a college student there who is Chadwick name porter chadwick. Who is looking for katherine. And he's up on top of this like call mountain but it's about eight hundred foot elevation of rock and rough terrain scenario. That's already been searched several times but it's in his grid. It's area that he's been assigned so he climbs this thing. Which is it's so steep that you gotta do zigzag thing about five miles to get to the top of it. So he gets the top of it and he's calling out cats room and out from underneath this limestone overhang walks catherine bell st- and she says here i am and this guy just you know almost melts down. And he he goes over. He picks her up and My god are you okay. And she says yeah. Where have you been. And she's like. I don't know where i've been I woke up here this morning. And i thought i'd better wait for somebody to come get me now. She was up there for total of six nights and seven days and there was no potable war anywhere to drink She well hydrated. The mother said her hair was clean and other than the few mosquito bites. She was an absolute perfect health. Hadn't lost council weight and In the article from the pittsburgh press the mother is quoted as When asked about her daughter's mood she said that her daughter was zero. Lead calm cool. Serene read early. Calm calm serene Just really struck me as bizarre. Yeah so that is just bizarre. So so yeah yeah. It really is The person in the chat room was asking if you had experience with that. She's talking about the the one with a high intelligence and all that she said. Did you know other experience with that. Being did you feel like you had more experiences lee later in life or earlier before those with this same type of being or being on the ship that was on that ship no. I felt that i felt that was our first and only interaction. Now i yeah. I do have memories of being taken as a little bitty kid and petite. When i when i was seven years old We had a neighbor who say war. Bread She married her husband was gi. Who was stationed in. Japan was japanese and she married him. They moved to saint louis missouri And her husband unfortunately passed away so she lived there by herself And all of us kids in the neighborhood we all call her sue And she was just a very kind woman. Used to bake stuff for us. All the time and But i remember there was a Needs to take me as a kid. I would sometimes see this woman sued And she didn't scare me Although i was on without any reason uncomfortable around Especially elderly asian women so long time and I think that goes back to something that i experienced You know that childhood so crazy you know to finish up the hypnosis session but what the us bad but hypnosis One of the. Find out if i told the truth when i talked to these agents told me and i had agreed that what we would do. Is you know we would tell them. Yeah we went to bed feeling bad. We woke up feeling terrible. And we came home and we just left out the middle and to my mind At the time That made a truthful. You know i could see that with a straight face and not feel Like i was lying. I think that made all the difference in the world because That was a very important part of the exercise Because he asked me. You know these guys. They're asking me these questions. I'm telling them about a spaceship and they're just fine with it you know they're just wanna long like this is. This is normal. Part of the story right So they do they absolutely do The only question was how much did i know that's was the only on the table. Yeah all of it. It's mind boggling to us. They ha- if we've had it. We don't have any memory i hate to say. There's people out there you know a lot of peop- everyone no one's ever had it but as you know there's many people that have come forward. Now they were more afraid of years and years ago of one believing them but with people like you telling your story and so many along the way. There's many more people coming forward now. If it's happened to me. I think they go for somebody. Like don't you think they they'd probably go for all types of people i mean they try to go with the higher intelligence and and things like that but i think they do. I think you do that. I was thinking. Yeah yeah trying to like if you were going to. Do you know a kick a survey. You'd wanna random sample to get an idea of what the made up a little a little bit of everyone. Yes the person in a chat. Room is saying. Terry mentioned a third Vignette with betty slash su in his book that was withheld for his own security. Will he ever reveal what it is or will it be In the in the reckoning his second book it is in the reckoning party so there is more of what I'll be honest with you. My my editor who you know did all the all the proof reading and putting together and rating and all that stuff He read the chapter and he says man. Nobody's gonna believe this. You know you want to leave south korea. Now that you know that is kind of the last chapter is kind of the whole point of the exercise you know it's kind of the most important part But no she said some betty a couple of things that that were personal to my my wife. And i and both those things will stay between us but there were some things that She shared with me and I have those those roles out in the reckoning and I can't wait. It's going to be not it's volumes and volumes and stuff. I tell you. I that book i only have so much right You know i can only right. I can honestly remember There was a chapter that i wrote for the book about my cousin. Gerald from From northern arkansas jonesboro. And when i was having the problem with the Monkeys in my room. That's a child At the exact same time and he was my age. She was complaining about the visited by two little clowns and I think i mentioned last time. I put a email trust in the back of my book. And i said look. I'm not a counselor or therapist or anything. But if you've had a weird experience in and you'd like to share it with somebody. I'd like to hear it. You know right. It's all right back to you and But i'd like to hear your story. So people wrote to me and they told me about in their childhood Seeing these things oh and it would be birds like little gray man clowns monkeys to your raccoons it. I mean i've got in the in the thirteen hundred. Some letters have emails and i've received I got a core group of about five hundred of them that are just really rock-solid stories And when i look at them. I it's kinda it comes across the somehow when these things come to see us. They know what form to present themselves. Then what form too. Soon to be nine to the child to be non-threatening so that's like me. When i saw these monkeys. I say i thought they were almost comical i and they were new comical. Never friendly as long as i went with them whenever they asked me to So yeah i'm my pork. My cousin gerald My parents didn't believe me but he he had two brothers and bunk beds that slept in the same room with him and he's come and visit talked to him and his brothers would never wake up. I mean took him and You know so he was having you know screaming kind of nightmares. I was and you know when you're seven you made you tell the truth i saw clowns and nobody believes you and But unfortunately they they interpreted it as a as a spiritual bent rather than an extra terrestrial and just wasn't in there wasn't in their thought process. Yeah they assumed that it had to be a demon of some kind. And and i don't know maybe they are. I don't know but Rather than trying to help the kid they did was they. you know. Took 'em to church in the congregation. Put hands on it and prayed for him and But that didn't help and it's so scaring no well. We do have other than the chatroom asking about. How that Ask you about how bad he gave you a warning of the pandemic a new world on february first when betty visited in november two thousand nineteen. And how many more time has been visited since then. This person knows stuff. i'll say. Yeah it's visited me exactly twice in my adult life. I think betty is the same being that. I knew that sue as a young child. Okay but my adult life that he's visited me twice. One was the third week in october. Twenty seventeen when she came and warned. You shouldn't might my book or that. The her hosts she referred to aliens as host And i and i thought it was kinda Kinda poetic in a way. I said you know why. Why do you called in your hoax. Because you know you can be host. Even post can be announced revert. You got hosts a dinner party. You can be the host of dinner party. I mean all right you. There's a parasitic relationship will. Yeah there's a host. So i mean the the word has more than one meeting and i remember Telepathically asking her. Why do you call your host skiing. Justices She said you call them aliens But i call them my host. Because they're not really to me. You know that's really kind of dodging the question but yeah that that was the answer i got so that was the first time that i saw her. And she told me that the thing would be taken out of my leg and sure enough On november seventeen Less than a month later of twenty seventeen. I woke up all kinds of pain in my legs and I went to We're we're can. I get an x-ray right because you know you can't just walk into a free standing radiology. Stop us and ask for an x ray. So i thought well you know. I'll go to a chiropractors office and And i did. I went to this car. Proctor and I had copies of my x rays showing the things that we're in there and i had them printed it out on on Copy paper would else a tube in my hand and i didn't have an point and I may have told you this before but I waited see him for forty minutes and finally he says so. 'cause they didn't have an appointment and they were very busy and it was saturday. And this is combat. Where do you hurt. You know we in an automobile accident. Normal things i guess they asking And i wrote my pants. And i showed him the wounds that i had top of my leg puncture marks at the very top of both of my legs and then two days later. I had this flower. Petal bruce pattern appear at the top of both of my legs and i think included pictures of those back in my book. Yeah yeah so weird so creepy you know he says well you know what happened to you and i Put my parents back on. So here's the story doctor. I have I went camping. And nineteen seventy seven and i ran into. I was abducted by aliens. And i think that they put it in atlantic beach your legs or at least one for sure and They came and they took them out last night and he thinks i'm nuts. He's got me by my arm and he's leading me toward the front door. And i'm saying you know no. This really happened dr and I opened up the on on roll. Those xrays held those copies of those ex-race in front of his face. Because i knew these guys look at one hundred rays a week right and he stopped in his tracks. And you looked at the x-rays and come on back. And we went into his office and it was crazy renaissance office his ring and people are not going on his store and he puts out the two x rays on paper in front of me. It's just tell me. Tell me about this. Tell me quick. What happened to you. And i told him i said i went camping. In nineteen seventy seven. I think at that time but they were both abducted. And i think these are implants that they stuck in my leg and i think last night they came in and took them back discovered them. You know it's two thousand seventeen. I discovered them in twenty twelve And he he didn't ask me another word he said. I'm gonna pay for your x ray and here's where you go. And he handed me a slip and he said that. I wanna see your x ray. And he said i want you to promise me that you won't use my name or my clinics name and your book and give me an autograph copy and so I went and got the x. ray. And now i don't you know i know radiologist but I got hold it up to the light and see that the thing that looks like a computer chip that was above. My leg was gone. It was no longer there. So i thought well you know that he was right. They did come back and take back merchandise. So i dropped the Drop the film's off his office. Mikey ask and he called me after dinner that night and he says well you saw your xrays said yeah. I did. Thank you doc. Appreciate it Like they came and got their stuff and he said well they left you something and did you see it. I said i can see anything. He told me where to look. I didn't have the xrays in front of me. But i i got them later from them. I have them here my There are two tiny wires. Right here to my femur right in my mid thigh. That don't belong there. And i and i asked him. I said these things are so intelligent. How could they be so inept as to leave these two wires in my leg and he says they're not in that. He said they just gave you an upgrade. That's the twenty seventeen version of the nineteen seventy seven model. They got it. And i thought well. That's pretty clever actor So yeah the second. The next time. I saw betty laws And this is in the reckoning November twenty first twenty nineteen. I was in my study back here. Why having a little studio mine by Computer my printer is back here Look on something. And it was three o'clock. I have insomnia. And he's like three a m It was three thirty three exactly actually and If i were called what i did was i tapped out. I have word processor on. And i kept out the numbers and i think it was sweet. Thirty three Could have been three thirty. I i'd have to look it up. But i say tight dot those numbers. I became aware that there's a cheer to my left. And i became aware that someone was in the room with me and i turn my head to the left and it was betty and she was dressed in the same blacks black up but she didn't have a wig on this time and i could see her head and I you know. I felt calm. I felt actually absolutely calm and relaxed. I didn't feel Frightened in the least as a matter of fact the first the first thought that flashed through my mind was my god. It's good to see you again And i do have this This for her Not in a romantic way but in federal way and And it was good to see her again and She said. It's nice to see you. Terry and i said why are you in my house and She says And you know she never speaks. In plain language she always speaks somewhat kind of cryptic code like and she said She told me that It was the world was going to change. There was going to be a big change. And what she said was that there would be Fleet of ufo's try to make contact with united nations on a certain day in december. Forget today i got it written down and that the Un needs to have a protocol in place to welcome them and if they don't have a protocol place and take appropriate non-aggressive that and they'll just leave. And i said well what do you. What does that have to do with me. And she says well. She says there are several people. That know this. You're not the only one and sure enough. There are several people that they didn't get it from betty but they got the same message. One of them is a guy named kevin briggs who wrote a book Who's been in contact with leeann. Since he was fourteen she got the exact same message. Exact same date matter of fact we thought about going to new york that they But we didn't and So you know what. The ufo secure over the united nations building that day. Yeah i don't know didn't they didn't make the paper you know who's how do we know we don't know right interesting in chat room saying I understand that you. He wouldn't like to disclose what betty told him about his wife. Can he reveal information. Betty told them in regards to his wife and has to do anything to do with their souls. Creepy That was kind of a point of contention Between thirty and yeah And that's kind of a long answer Okay we we can have you want That would be fine. Let me tell you about betty's probation for february. Yeah she said The world is going to change. And on february i will change. Change begin and then she said on february second it will be a new world and it's crazy because whitley strieber Who i every two earlier. That june At the Pine ridge Reservation in south dakota we spend a week together and He wrote a book called a new world and And then he talks about some of the things that we saw experienced in pine rich I didn't call the. But i talked to my friend. Leslie cain It looks like he cayennes pronounce came. She's the new york times reporter. Who broke the story about the tic tacs and then it's carrier group and the gimbal event and all of that stuff So she's in the know and should it. She lives in new york and new york city and is not far from with the and their friends and i said And i called her in in Really early january. Because i had some really weird feelings I think that these things can communicate with us both telepathically while they're here and i think that they can install at our heads. Things that will be activated. And i'll give you an example in just a minute but i i called her and i said would you do call Really for me and ask him about the new year. Twenty twenty And this was right after christmas. I believe right after christmas and She said sure and she says what. Do you think something's going on. I said you know. I don't know i don't wanna tip my hand. I would just like to know his candidate opinion. Does he have a strong about anything. In twenty twenty and She called me back and said yeah beginning february so thanks to both of us her older well. Yeah with frequent anybody out very come on. Whoa so in in january. I started buying And i've never been a proper. You know i've never been one of those. People never have more than two risk groceries in my house at a time. Ever and i started ordering some food and some water. I mean not outrageous amounts but just enough that if we needed to we could live a couple of weeks And i just felt compelled to do that and I followed that compulsion other compulsion i had And i hope the irs is listening was early january. I had Since i have some stock that i've accumulated over the years Like general electric Just just industrial stuff That i thought was solid coca cola some other stuff About a dozen stocks and told him and There were rumors about this Pandemic you know back in december. Well i went. And i sold all my stock and i bought fires her. Labs darna gilead. Abbott still fun. I bought five year about to do really well. I haven't been today. Wasn't very good julia. I bet i bet today was pretty good for you. And i don't i don't know what for pfizer closed at. But it was a good day for pfizer. But you know. I i feel like i didn't have that knowledge. I mean i'm not a stockbroker. I'm no i mean. I don't follow the market. I mean i check on the value of my stuff now and But i don't follow the market but I feel like you know. Betty whispered in my ear. You know this is. This is what you should do When i when you know when over in the course of my life. I've had these intuitive feelings. That i can't you know there's no logical reason to come to this assumption. There's no roger logical reason to make this decision to sell this stuff. Do take this action. But when i had an intuitive feeling i follow it and it's usually always always treated me right. I even more. I mean i liked it a lot before terry but now you gotta start sharing them with us. Well easy easy. We have about lebanon less. I just wanted to make sure you get time. I get time to let everybody know how to reach. Ooh and you get your book and everything like that Because the time goes so so quick at the end and this is always. I mean i want more every time you're on i just want to have you on again. And that's the way Our chat room feels and the callers. Bill it's not enough. It's never enough. The more you can tell us and the more they can relate to it so thank you so much and and let us know where we can get your book. I i read it. I need to read it again because obviously there's more to to remember And please please tell you listeners. I should thank you very much. book on amazon is Under incident at devil's den. It's under kindle The book that has some photographs in the back. The paperback and i also made an audio version where i read the entire book So you can buy digital copy and just listen to it if you want. The new book. the reckoning still at my editors placing some Some pictures in it. And i hope to have it released Back to me back by december. First that's my goal and then Hopefully the audiobook to oh. That's what she was asking. We'll be Audio's well he's she said You read the last one and it was. We have to put a bleeping in their like she did. It was bleeping brilliant. We we agree with your your fan here and we're fans of yours you are. We can't live on our bleeping brilliant Well thank you very tired you know. I always have fun when i come and talk with you guys. it's always. It's always a good time. we appreciate it. I look at things in a completely different light. My brain works different. And a little you know but yours. You're so intelligent and well-spoken and knowledgeable and i feel when you're telling us your story your true fear and proud of you that you some don't ever overcome it that cripples them a little bit and you've come through that and i know you still probably go through some of that but we're so proud of you and all that you've done in bringing to light to everybody and such an intelligent informative way and still as creepy just saying we need to know people need to know. Oh yeah friend. Phoenix hockey's okay. Yeah she said. Goodness christmas came early best for than ever that we asked. I just wanted to let everyone know if you come in our chat room and you how how. The you know intelligible question. We try to always ask our listeners questions unless they get off the charts or route or something like that. But we don't have many people like that we have such a great show so we want to thank you for listening and thank you terry. Everybody you know. i can't wait to how you on. We're gonna talk about the new book. Yeah not cannot wait for that. The reckoning is my christmas list Yeah no that'd be worth meal That sounds bad. Yeah we'll think you feel like on some. I feel a little bit special now too. All bandaged up and everything like i went through today. But hopefully everything's gonna be In a positive room. That's what we're voting for She say she's got a lot to say in here She said in the last minute. Can you say what. Stephen greer said about his experience that we only have about six minutes. Did you finish everything you wanted to say. Your shoutouts sorry. I i don't know good. You know not. Many people know about that conversation. I had a conversation with dr ruth. i'm not a big fan of dr career I don't mean to say anything disparaging about him but he's a. He's a medical doctor. A emergency room doctor and She was I listened to and give speech when he was talking about how Loving how caring how the here to take us hand and walk us through new age of awakening and You know i. It just sounded so. Unlike what i experienced and i said I didn't get to talk to. I talked to him in a phone call. And said you know i i understand your feelings but let me ask you. This and these things were so concerned about our welfare. Why couldn't they pull aside a medical person like yourself. You know a couple hundred years ago and said hey you know what. Wash your hands before surgery and you'll save sixty percent of your patients instead of losing sixty percent of your patients. They care about they do that. Yeah and he was very unhappy. Didn't like that at all much different that that was interesting. But yeah. I've never told many about that story I think the the your our listener our chat room or lab. She's laughing they. They're right on it there on on it. You know i mean knowing a lot about What what you've done in reading your books and listening to your books and so you you know that you probably know this. We have one fan. We call on our show One fan or one fan grade. We have a lot of fans that's what he's nickname became fan. And so that's how we feel. We just left people to listen to your story and here it and and that brings out to me what it does it help people that can't have been able to deal with it in the way you have and you'll still you'll always have. It will always be going through it. Do you think they still visit you or do you think they're point in time they they stop the move on. I mean because you have had them visit you. We only have about four minutes left. But you haven't had them visit you as a child. You have some memories of that you believe and then of course the adult experience do you continue to keep a little eye on you or all of the people that they do. I think so. You know in a way Because i feel that that is not a threat to me It's almost a great feeling. I mean i I know that That he gave me a gift. I think Of of good intuition and And i'm very grateful for that and you know i've heard other experience. Say that they want we with a gift to and a lot of times it was a little bit of intuition and I'm very grateful to that. But yeah i think they're going to be a part of my life for as long as i live and i really think that we are in the cost right on the edge that i mean we've been savory hearing this for years i know But i think it's gonna happen. I think it's gonna happen soon. I am we're all the truth. I think it took this. I think took all this time. I mean look at the things you had to go through and the things that you the way you had to find out all the time for you to be where you are now and more accepting of it. But i don't think everybody gets there. Because of the fear the fear that stills still then somebody had and you have that still you know you will frighten and all but you don't live with the fear every day. that's what what i'm so proud about. Some people allow it to take them down in. You found more about more knowledge and help other people and rose above that and now you don't fear as as much because i don't know that they meant to make you afraid you know what i'm saying. They they were doing what they thought they were. So yeah they had you know. What are you yelling about. Hope that kind of attitude be well. They sell loud for. We're just you know. They don't even know they're just a beings doing what they were told or programmed or however that works. So i yeah. I know you're with doctors. I think he'd say no hard feelings. You know just doing my job man. I mean that's what i feel like. I'm sorry but but you know we were just doing our job so we only have about ninety seconds left. I wanna thank you so much to Our chat room listener and thank you to our caller who was asking questions to me on based facebook here and I just think that you're so amazing. And we can't wait to have you on and i will be glue- glued to your next book like nobody's business. I have to read them over and over again. I swear they're at. They're scary and interesting at the same time. Thank you so much. And she's we we want you on again always will always be friends that always Be aware of what you went through. And and the get my book soon as we're excited about that. Thank you so much for listening and thank you for being great guest. Thanks curves we. We don't have to do much you you do such an amazing show by yourself here but allow you to i. Can we can just allow you to tell your story and area go. Wow oh yeah it is so fascinating that we have a little voice in our ear. The tells us we have ten seconds left and we appreciate all of our listeners. And we'll have on teal grey She's amazing and she she's just to be another great show not always about aliens but always interesting then. Thank you for listening to the radio. Thanks gary curbs good night.

terry toby brad marty cbo thirteen dollars mary baldwin terry lovelace keri voice fort white nyerere sheila toby tobias air force office of special three minute two hours mary baldwin college virginia jerry savanur golf
The Breakdown:  Dont Get in the Way of The Deep State PsyOp!  Theyll Take Your Kids!

CRUSADE Channel Previews

13:38 min | 1 year ago

The Breakdown: Dont Get in the Way of The Deep State PsyOp! Theyll Take Your Kids!

"These shows are are are our gift they're our craft given to you. So that, you can hear the truth. Telling you how to think showing you how to think not what to think. Fact over fear, here. So, but we want to give you something in return. We don't want to just take your money. So, go find a fantastic product to help you deepen your spirit. You live your spiritual walk in your closest with the Lord. Or just to give you a good jolt in the morning with Coffee Coffee Goo. And then you can check out the fantastic t shirts that are being offered. There's well the revolt t shirts because right now the public has bought into this this narrative that masks are going to save lives unless you have a mask on, you don't care about anybody. They think that if you if you're if you're not wearing a mask, then all you care about yourself and your rights. Not, taking into account the fact that you have health issues. Asthma. Anxiety issues, things that could exacerbate. By wearing things that could be exacerbated by wearing a mask. So get a shirt. Rather than having to tell somebody a medical issue where the shirt that just says revolt. The shirt should do we should have shirt that just fly a kite or something like that. I have to think about that when at present that. There's Y- the. There's no better way to make a statement than going and getting the social distance forced masking revolt t shirt. From Mike Church Dot com forward slash shop all right folks now the speaking of masks. Oh. By the way, if you're in the Crusader stadium chatroom crusade channel, dot com forward slash chatting. You're enjoying that bottom right hand corner. There's a great out dollar sign go there click on that and donate money that helps us keep the Crusader stadium rolling we we have that as a service there are no ads that are in there at all and we could get that. But we don't want that we want you to have a safe place to hang out to be with your family with your friends. As, we build a community there devoid of all adds that track you. Keep your information. We don't do that. All right. And August crowdfunding is well my church DOT com slash shop big part of this. If you just want to give a gift to the Crusade Channel Mike Church Dot com forward slash shop crowdfunding efforts they're speaking of masks. Where did it go here? It is right here. I don't know if it was in the chat room. If I was having a conversation with somebody about this recently, I cannot recall exactly where it happened. somebody I I made a comment about to show papers. I believe could have been Friday when we were talking about the FEMA camps. being used. As. Labor camps forced labor camps for the globalists' going forward. If you don't hear that they're the I covered that on Friday show. From last week. And the essence of that the the essence of that was simply that the the way that we restore the manufacturing that we're gonNA lose because of damaged relationships with China is to create A. Labor force here in the United States of America. The only way to create a slave labor force here in the United States of America is to have people that are willing to. Either work for the government as guards at FEMA camps or put people in imprisonment or FEMA camps or covert camps. And then use their labor as a way to manufacture goods. It happens right now in the prison systems why do you think that the amount of people who are in jail have increased security? INCARCERATIONS are up in the past thirty years for minor offenses. Why? Because you've take a bunch of criminals What the solid society deems has criminals and they throw them in jail and they work in call center as as telemarketers for a company who pays them pennies on the dollar. And they get thirty cents a day or whatever it is they could buy themselves soap. Some headphones some deodorant just small things like that where they get pennies on the dollar, but those companies are making hand over fist because. Those those convicts are are being. Used as slave labor. That's why marijuana was also being Why so many people put in jail for Marijuana Minor offensive that you're going to jail you can work you get paid pennies on the dollar companies make boatloads of money. But the the comment was made about how we're how we're GONNA find how these people are gonNA be round up rounded up. And you're going to have to be presenting papers. You'RE GONNA have to be presenting some type of Medical Barca which we've talked about extensively on this, which will continue to talk about and covered. But we made the comment about paperwork asking for papers pay us. please. And someone said I again I think it was on facebook. Someone said, no, they're not asking for papers. Well. Right here. In Connecticut. Hartford Connecticut Connecticut as a matter of fact now, any Connecticut re resident refusing to wear a mask in public must show written documentation from their doctor that they're exempt due to medical reasons. A an exact. Hang there for just a moment. Just like when you were a kid. and. You were off a day because you're sick. To ensure that you weren't playing Hooky your parents had to produce a doctor's note. To, excuse, your absence. Now. If. You want to go to shop somewhere. And you refuse to wear a mask because of medical reasons. The Gov- Lieutenant Governor Susan the by Switz-. Signed an executive order on Friday and said that those claiming to be exempt must provide written documentation that the person is qualified for the exemption from a licensed medical provider. The Department of Developmental Services or other state agency that provides or support services for people with emotional intellectual or physical disabilities or a person authorized by any such agency. So think about the embarrassment. Think. About the public shaming remembering cut we covered this last week. About the trials that they're running right now to find the best way to shame people. into taking the corona virus vaccination that supposed to be saving the world. One of those was shame. They have controlled groups, and in these control groups, they give them different reasons as to why they should take the corona virus vaccine. One of those, they use the guilt. They used community. They use a love for other people. I. Think they use economic reasons. Multiple reasons. One of those was shame. Right now. You walk into a Walmart or whatever other Cova D- Karen operation is going to have these. tracers at their front doors these mask police. That are going to question you when you walk into their their establishment. Why are you not wearing a mask? We'll have a medical condition. May I see papers police? So now you're standing there while all these other folks, these masked individuals who have bought into the Lai. Who have covered up the image of God they've covered up Imago Day with with these face diapers they're walking by like like she. going. To slaughter. And here you are having to produce note. Which does what? It reveals personal private. Medical Information. To an unknown person standing out a door. And then it also tells everybody else around. That you have a medical condition. that. Prevents you from wearing a mask? How embarrassing. Is that. How humiliating? What kind of shame or they producing? To make you. Have to produce this document. Masks, face coverings must be worn by those over the age of two of the age of two now. Little toddlers. Being indoctrinated from that young age. To wear a mask. Being documents being forced. Indoctrinated. It says that when it when you're in a taxi ride share public transit or any public space for social distancing not possible. It also granted the Commissioner of the Department of Economic and community development the ability to issue or amend sector rules to establish size limits for private gatherings of people who do not live in the same old regardless of whether such gathering has been organized by business we're about to see. The largest enforcement of solved Marshall Law, how were they going to make sure that you comply? With. Less than ten people. How are they going to make sure that you comply with these mask recommendations? They're going to have an enforcement force Kovin enforcers we're going to be walking around. Now you wonder how are they going to get the guards at? FEMA camp. There the covert enforcers. There the contact tracers? They're the people who don't have a job and who have been out of a job for five months. You have no money about to lose their home loser apartment and the government swoops in and says, Hey, I've got something. Covert is what caused all this? How about you fight covid? How about you ensure that Kobe doesn't start doesn't do this to anybody else and then it doesn't do to your family again. Senior that little. Snake Kiss. Save Thia. Become covid trait third. The Dole Dupe people into buying into the government lie, and they'll become your neighbors will be the ones dialing the phone and it's already happening. They'll continue to do it, and then they'll now they'll be in an official capacity. They'll de fund the police. Take money away from the police. They'll put it into contact tracing. Crusade channel is the last live radio station stating always on Aaron always online at Crusade Channel. Dot. COM Not only that but we have the fantastic Crusader stadium chatroom going on right now as due to the entire broadcast day. Took over to a crusade channel DOT COM slash chat to join into their. You know these people by the way. I'm not GONNA as you putting their names in the chat room or anything but you know these people you're sitting there and you're like. Yeah. Yeah. So and so. Yeah. She would definitely be a part of that. Oh. Yeah. This dude Yup. Yeah. Yeah. He he would definitely be one of those guards at that Fema camp. You know what makes that? Not only are you going to be traced? Not only? Will you have to provide paperwork to go to the store? I? Mean just think about this this grid we we've been we've been thinking since two, thousand and one. When we now we have we we've taken off our shoes. We've been patted down children and women have been molested old women in wheelchairs. have been felt up because they're trying to say grandma has a a bomb boost Jay. You've been psychologically attacked to think that the only way to stop terroristic attacks is for the government to completely humiliate and dehumanize you. To fill you up when you walk to the airport to make you take off your shoes. So everybody's corral through a body scanner which inundate you with radiation with cancer causing radiation. And Now? We have to wear face masks because if you don't, then you're GONNA kill grandma. and. If you don't wear face masks, produce a reason why you don't wear a face mask by a specific licensed state provider. So you in order to show that, you don't have to comply with the State's regulations you have to go to a state certified person to give you permission to not. Do what the state is told you to do. It doesn't stop there though folks there's US professor who says that a psychoactive pill should be covertly administered to ensure lockdown compliance chemical more moral enhancement. Kim Oh my gosh. Chemical moral enhancement. Chemical moral enhancement substances could help people reason about what the right thing to do is argue professor Parker Crutchfield.

Fema camp United States Connecticut Crusader stadium FEMA marijuana Crusade Channel Asthma America Department of Economic and com professor facebook Department of Developmental Se Hartford Medical Information Dot Jay
Interview with the famous actress and wife to Terry Crews - Rebecca King Crews

The Dave Pamah Show

47:32 min | 3 months ago

Interview with the famous actress and wife to Terry Crews - Rebecca King Crews

"Welcome to the dave thomas. Show the podcast. Fives restores and awakens. Your innermost capability. You have the training and the talent to succeed but do you have the guts to fail. I love what i do. We love what you do. You want to be the best at it. Today is about the power you you will change to find your path to success the journey of those who have succeeded. And now your host dave pomme welcome welcome back to the dave palmer show and with me and a step aside. I have the famous actress and wife to terry crews. She's an accomplished actor actress and producer. Most of our fan notre from her appearance in the tv show the family cruise. She's worked to sent the executive producer of the serious that aired on mtv international worldwide. She's a she's gifted with a powerful and infectious voice hence her to radio signal single singles. Get at right. I keep holding on and destiny. Rebecca king crews aka regina welcome today power show mouth. Thank you dave pleasure to be here. Yeah flesh pleasure to have you hair and A great opportunity to to be speaking to you in the show and This later to maura guests. Lock yourself in more more shows of you with the music that you're bringing out because some music out recently that's been more your recent projects. Has that been going. It's going very well. As a matter of fact my single is called what you wanna do it. I mean the rb charts. I'm number three on the indie artist chart for aren be. I'm really in the country charts. I'm really excited and Bided to release more music from this project So yeah we're we're going like gangbusters promoting radio digital omsk. I'm on spotify pandora playlist apple music playlists and you know kind of growing getting attention and i'm very. I'm very happy with it. I think this single has done the best of all the songs well. Has it been in church. During the pandemic i mean this kosters really exploded Yom really proud about that. So But i know we've music projects. I know i'm actually accomplishing from a season. I'm the semi younger me. I'm on the out tiny braxton. She's also a season singer. She's just born coupla averaged. I heard that she had to record over zoom the touch recent album herself. How have you managed during the pandemic to promote and keeping me promotion. Ocean is actually been fairly easy during the pandemic. Because i can do radio interviews. I can do different. Promotional outlets from the only thing we can't really do is tour would have been challenging for me because my son got cast on a tv show. Oh airmont studios him today. He's on nickelodeon. Show called side-hustle. Ahmed show literally just a couple of months before the pandemic and they did a little bit of production and then boom the was shut down and then we came back in september. And we've been going hard since september. So mommy is still a making sure. The kids are good. You know what i mean. Yeah i'm i'm i'm okay with not being on the road for now but unable to promote and do pr digital pr do You know instagram. All those kind of things you can do from home so show the song and enjoy it and buy smart. Yeah yeah well. I mean you of a good stint Lock your husband in the Film and tv a-. Well you did a reality show um which was based around your family life because it said the show was Yes yeah yeah we were approached by bt back in two thousand nine yeah and i was actually friends with their head of casting robin reid and she literally just called me up one day and said Get your husband and come to our office. We have an idea. And i looked at terry. He said when ravi recalls you go. Yeah and they offer. Gus is opportunity on and we were hesitant because a lot of reality had proven to be disruptive for people who had done it yep is a. We made very clear to them that these are children. You know there was a certain. A certain format a certain tom that the show needed to have We were not going to be fighting each other on tv. And that our faith our christian faith be a part of the show. And i want to censor jesus outta my show than we don't have the show ya that that was a part of. They wanted our team and sure enough. They put us on sunday night with all cost of lineup. We are right behind like sunday. Best you something. Oh we were allowed to be a very positive kind of beacon of light in the reality genre. Long runs house and like them. There are some other little cute family. Friendly reality shows out there but those aren't the ones that get all the press. The ones that get the press are the train wreck you know. Sometimes yeah well. It's great to step was reality. Tv's i prime. Then what is but obviously probably people have to do it with their cameras and a half hour during the pandemic eventually but that's a great time to the family cruise going at time but then you know it was a great experience on. Bet was very very good to my family. They were protective of my kids. Yeah did not set against each other. On we had female producers. One of them was a mother. Now there was is about the scheldt that i think made a different show. Yeah whether that said that. The one of the mike successful worst show. She didn't as a that said crock. Good you had your family of. It must have been a good fading family kind of doing something positive as well as you mentioned. Then the eventually Works as a producer. So you've been doing producing as well under the mtv international worldwide as a great thing to so being a lot at the data what happened was bt is owned by which you know a lot of people say well black on black owned okay but So mtv would go around to each of the networks. They had h. one they had bt. They had a couple others that they bought. And our show was the only bt show picked up for worldwide syndication that year and the so even though we only did a couple of seasons with bt our show went around the world for probably the next five use the we wherever we go in the world. People go terry very popular In the uk. I've had in a poor from scotland Just all over the place on because we talked about universal things we talked about little girls growing up and getting their period and a and a daughter going off to college and an adult daughter who is pregnant and not married. you know we. We went through things that a lot of families go through and so it just hadn't universal appeal and where we're very thankful that the show get as well as it did. Yeah yeah well. What i mean. Been a big fan of Mtv end Bt since about nineteen eighty nine or when it first came out mainly so a lot of comedy as well and your husband's some punish as and as successful in these very humorous also came from a sporting background locking out to track says knows while he's poplar globally as facebook's knots poplars. Nfl in the america. Track i ran track in junior high and high school. Our really what was at sprint. Still i know. Actually i was distance. I would do the two hundred meter four hundred meter. Oh okay well. That was the four hundred eight hundred men so more more hundred eventually a in the school in school i was small to four most sprint in really bitter but yeah maybe international status olympic trials and things like that so i was a couple of clips from you on tv. Time i hit. I was completely dedicated to performing arts. So yeah yeah. It's like jennifer lopez. She was a track runner and the very good at high school national level and then the osce her dancing and singing for free. Just like yourself really. So yes will. You obviously was successful. I will win in the tv and film side of the performing arts but in the has music who always been headed to start new side of things You know music was actually the. I love piano at nine. I think. I wrote my first song when i was about eleven on on the piano ending songs before that but i could buy. My dad was musician. My mom saying And i spent from the time. I was about ten i was really twenty-three inquires in bands. Talent shows gospel choir as a director of the gospel had my own group I picked from my choir or group than Musical theater just yet musical doing three or four musicals a year all the way up to college some professional theater and met my husband We went to the same school. We were in different circles. The only football game the homecoming game. We met at church actually okay keyboard. Yeah and now you went to the same college so there was a so number ready. Knew exactly how you met but it was actually at the church rather than yeah in college. We are the same school but but different different circles and the church i was attending was Just a small. Little church. And terry had been a part of a ministry that was having some issues Several of the african american members of that ministry west ministry came to our church just to of check out. We'll make we'll go here. You know Several of us. Mary schoneman that came from that ministry mural. Yes yes my roommate. She married another gentleman who came from that ministry. Who was france with terry. Other gentlemen married another girl who from our church. So we jokingly say Marinov ministries brought us all our husbands s Haven't been hit before joining point. The last show dreamgirls by michael was to go to broadway not willing to do film or tv. Riots most is more stage. Because i love the live audience and i'm my husband changed changed my life. I was during my my life. My road with terry's vision which was similar to mind except for the nfl part because he you know That was always in the plan. Just didn't win the. Nfl proved to be unstable. Lot of moving glazed e. play for one year and get cut. Go another team another team. That's kind of dang hall may just working in the church because we move so much it seems silly for me to try to plant myself into jock that city in move again by. Just stay home with my kids and once we moved to la that was like nineteen ninety. Seven i started monitoring again. See okay. yeah that was ninety seven. I think i had two kids. I went on had three more kids. Yeah by the time. Emily cruise we had and by that time he was at yet to the end of his. Nfl korea Moving into tax as well so was it. Did i mean if he was more you know sort had yoke our for performing arts did he. Did he kind of go into by by one state or he just had the opportunity because he was an nfl star. You know honestly being in the nfl did not help. My husband and terry's dream was always to play in the nfl. Hollywood and make films he wanted to be more like a spike. Lee like right. The film produce direct now. He always liked performing but he used to My coup in the eighties didn't break dance right so he i'll try to guiseley acting. He's danced in most of the movies in asia. Right dancer just the baked ham He even His mother was a very religious and so he was not allowed to go to school. Dances and things like that and he wanted to be in the school towns showing break dance. She told him no. And he said will can. I host the talent show. She said okay as long as you host. So he hosted his school talent show and now he's add that but he He always wanted to perform. But i think he didn't see like he idolized. michael jackson terry a really good impersonation jackson with already erica. And a little. You know billie. Jean moves like He's a but he still idealized yourself. More like spike lee. You're like a huddle and brothers or like over urge he wanted to be that guy and so then moved to la heathens writing these scripts and shoot these little shorts and Somebody who in industry Who met him while he was bouncing a club just to make ends meet it. You should be an actor. You have great look and after about a month or two months of several people telling him that he came home one day and he said people keep telling me i should be an actor and i said well if i had several people who work in the business. Tell me i should be an actor. That god is trying to tell me something so that was cooling for him. Very afraid of his met at that same bar introduced him to someone. Who got him this audition for the first shown you ever did which is called battle dome and athlete so it was like a perfect fit. They needed athletic. People care god ish and he got the part. Yeah oh even in his mind he's gone. I still don't want to be an actor but this as better than security security we'll actually more royal guard. Okay you call them. Fire watchers more that base still powered security. Yeah that's it doesn't pay as much as one movie with a couple of hollywood stars. It's more of a comedy is british british film around the same time. Two thousand nine around that time when you did your family cruise so that was good Listen i'm tanny. Newton all yes she was using it is. That's all my if the clip of that whereas in the same set actually said quote make the same as deteriorate yourself so my podcast eventually became muffing radio after a book as well. But let's talk about your book an audio book ashley. I also know that sir. -tario no it'd be nice to maybe do another show with interior talk about is teri dinner booker. Coda had to be in batman. Yeah which you're about to read as well because there are some things on can relate to their you both audio book coming out. I think he's been released on. August certainly april fifteenth april fifteen. Yes out on audible. He priori notable now. Okay so we get the data's very to get to that and swallow where we're going to more about music for to to china as well but us more about the strongest gather as ceo in territories. Not here so we can always relates speaking. Said you have actually been Recently because i know you had a cancer scare a mother to breast cancer. But i had some Well let's say at a small amount of ptsd simpson's do some odd job and some other racial issues and bullying as well that was going on. I know you touched a bit in the in the book as well from early life and imagine you can see what the protests going on where that's coming from his well but obviously society as well you know So we can talk about bits of that because i can relate to that but You'd be married a very long time. So that's that's great title fifteen. Mary so long as still staying strong together. Because it could have gone rocky with with the connotation side the iot semedo symptons said from the distress all went through a offing. Terry came out and being honest and dealt with it quite well so strong together. You went free. Some stuff see with the pandemic going on an iran health issues as well terrorism. Some parts of the balkan. Maybe if you wanna talk more about while just raised as well well The book is a memoir. I mean it. It goes into parts of our marriage that were really hard. Where we you know at different times. We're gonna quit There was one point where he wanted out. And there was a point where i wanted out and i wanted out. When he confessed me that he'd been on safe all your and he that he had an addiction. Appoint most of his life that he and i had already made up my mind that i wasn't going to stay with him because he was such a group to live. I think self medicating but he was also angry with himself and angry. All the things he'd been through in life and You know when you haven't processed your problems are dealt with your pain you everybody and so we went through a break-up and then we go into the book back into our childhood we go into the book about mark break up in our reconciliation about our past present and where we are today And we share the book mostly because we wanna help other couples. I you can if you try make through which is the worst day of your life you And god is in the center of the book. Because god helped to stay together you know. He helped us believe that there could be arraigned on the other side of that storm. And that's how we can tell the story now because we've been through it. Yeah yeah yeah well well They really sp- inspiring I just read the article mainly I'm going to pre-ordered As listen sorry. I'll portfolio because you can say i'm over nodia man. How are more books but to tell us about some of the troubled waters he went for especially recently maybe to inspire people to get through this pandemic. Because it's you know people from all walks of life you know people like yourselves might've been affected by or some of the mobike but others who really rob bottin tips urine and how maybe people can deal with it inspire people you went through issues. Obviously we expect terry stuff with the unfaithfulness junior marriage as cry inspiring to keep him together that well inbound was like ten years ago when now We just went through a period where we were just sick of each other and we had a big fight one night and i just kept having this feeling. There's something wrong with him. And i just started probing. I just started like it was like i was stabbing him with a knife asking him all these questions and then he just kept going. Oh you're crazy blah blah blah. And then that night. He said that god will come up. You tell her. Or i'm gonna take my hand off your lights. You come clean awning. I called them. And i said what i know about you. He started to tell me all this stuff. And i said okay. Don't bother coming home and That was the beginning of a life. Transformation that i still enjoy today because my husband saw that he has consequences for his actions. Were too great. I mean he just fought like a tiger instead. Please don't leave me michael now. I'm leaving you. You've had your shot. Where twenty years in. And you're still a jerk. Spice by that time but marriages. I mean say sometimes when i mean we. We look at celebrity marriages opposite of one. Our conner west and the condition of today. That's usually a talk. Appoint seven years Tends to be a testing point. You've managed to get through that at sars like you say ten years on. Its break married for twenty years when we had this point it had twenty well. Yeah that's the wonder years it's I could walk away with a whole lot of money. But i was willing to leave because i just said you know. I'm over. whatever this is you call this. yeah. I didn't on all the time. I didn't marry you to raise my kids alone. Take my kids churchill them. I didn't marry us. Though that i could raise a family by myself. And you giving me my. He doesn't make up for your absence. Yeah and he was apologetic enough to kind of appease me but he would not change you know people will say sorry but they don't change and i just got tired of him telling me he was sorry not g and then we had the big fight in that and i felt like god was once showing me like i kept seeing like there's something else you know But god also showed me that my husband was going to be a new main. Yeah are you sure. Because i don't like the one. I got and i can say today. My husband is a sweet and kind and loving and gentle. He's the man to be when american that works out. Good for you them. I mean you mentioned. That is more jen's who kind of lucky now in the article there was a sign on the continent more gentler side of him as it been up. See where are you based now in texas all california. Where in california california. Yeah so i mean. It is very very strict lockdown and that was a testing period for you know they say actually efforts they were worried that people might cause domestic bond is went up and stuff but There ashley saying that the also improved a lot relationships because they're spent more time together and actually appreciate it. Had it go for you. During the lockdown which was very strict in california about a year ago wasn't it. Yeah i would say we're closer But we were already closer ready on the other side of our trial kind of a getting along in a way. That was very beautiful and very peaceful and folks. We have our roles. I mean i was raising kids. And i was working on my career. He's working on his career. Also had a more equilibrium where he didn't just drive himself where he never did anything. That the family yeah. That's good early. He was just like pounding pounding. And it's not a lotta pictures of all of us together. It would be me and the kids you know and Will they suit. What does that they say. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger Even the answer thing at the time onto each other and held on to god and that must be very in being home. He was able to help me nurse myself back to health. You know a sickness and in health. That certainly was a period where you can save that. Saad of the marriages radia being implemented alike You need that that kind of sock logically and everything else you need that that strong bond at that time just as you do and I don't know if you've heard the analogy about like life will squeeze you like to based out is simply a revelation of who already work. Yeah so if you're mean under pressure that means that you just need different types of personalities as well as people that could have substitute their upbringing. Maybe or whoever it is that the pressure reveals what you are doesn't Yeah and so. We had developed relationship to the point that under that pressure. We just squeezed together. We just okay. We gotta do this. i'm sorry. Dave can give me one second short. Just pause it in a now. We'll we'll get back. My audience would appreciate that okay. We'll come back to part two rebecca. Yes yes that par- also in in the book you mentioned On another lot stuff going on during the pandemic one of the things that's going on you mentioned about some some racism you and terry experienced when during your time or journey before you marriage Obviously if these were protests going on you can see something that's very real ran the world and of course a trial now going on the the court case we've Floyd but you mentioned oversee you had some personal experience yourself And your husband also had some as well in the book you mentioned can can you mentioned about the again. Will all be something you can. You tycoon Yeah how well we. I mean needless. To say being black in america is journey all in itself. I had experiences with my family where we were discriminated against because my mother is black and we went to disneyworld right to a restaurant and the waiter ignored us. You know for a long time. We waited and waited to get service you know and my stepfather started to make a scene or we're all embarrassed. But you know we were being poorly treated He tells of being discriminated against because people knew we had a black lives in my husband's instance and my children. We go to the mall. People will walk right up to me. May i help you. What he looking for. And they'll ignore my children or follow it. follow yeah walking into a some little store And a lady assisted me. Yeah and raised his hand he said can i see genes in the size. Whatever she's like. I will get to you when i get to you. He said hunt and that she saw me walk out. She's like you know because she didn't together the here. She was called on the carpet for treating us differently in store And my my my youngest daughter. She's eighteen now when she was sixteen. She and her other black girlfriends were profiled in a free people store. Yeah and i will talk about it on instagram. And you know my husband has had cops will guns on him. A year in traffic stops. Yeah you don't care what i do. Carry guns buy a special unit. For in general they at the moment you know patrolled around with guns were time of course it. You know priest police brutality. Sort of a known thing but it's really ingrained in racism. more what we've seen protests in america But yeah we we've experienced it and You know And i can't say that. I experienced a lot of racism from white people with Into it was more people ignoring you or leaving out or neglecting you. There was the reverse where black people thought. I i mean to me you know and others watch you. And i have blonde hair as a baby taught so you know just being very fair skinned I took a little heat for that. But i've never had caught full a gun on me. I've experienced racism largely through my family. You know to brow on various shades. And i have a black son who you know we walk around together and people think i adopted him or something. You know We went into a seven eleven during the pandemic. And it was right in the middle of the riots in la. Yeah and this this poor little you know. Normally those stores will have a little security guard. But in this instance there were two lapd in the store and the one guy was young and he just looked so scared when he saw my son yes he did. I saw his is starting around his hand on his weapon. He didn't go it alone but he had looked like what's going to happen. What's going get your come get your slurpee in. Let's go. But i saw the guy become petrified of my little nerdy. Geeky which glasses and braces on a high top. Nothing like the gang banger. But this this cop was nervous around my kid and my daughter got fouled. You know on a different occasion. isn't right era more experiences we we went into a restaurant near pasadena that i go all the time In the minute we walked in the door the hostess disappeared. So they're like where's the hostess and then when she came out she stood there like she didn't see us can you please. She's like oh you want to sit here. We shouldn't now. It's like mike. We talked about microaggressions that stuff. Students like Two or three occasions we've gone into restaurants and been ignored. You know whereas by going there by myself. Oh may i help you or the white guy comes in behind us. Oh we'll be right with you sir. You know so. It's it's a alarming. Yeah now it's very real. When the closer the things are people saw either partier. When you need it you know it was time for this to come to the forefront. Yeah and they say like we say reveals yes. Yeah and debit. Reveal the things that are wrong in our country. Yeah and gave us a to address it and i hope we are dressed like we should. Yeah well I want too much into politics. Obviously offering having the trump administration on the revealed even more time he was certainly didn't really care about is so blatant with with stuff the way people would see what's going to rise out and you know. Trump trump is is a study in Dichotomy because trump has worked with a lot of black people. Yeah a lot of good for a lot of black people all right. I'll fan the flame racism among racists in this country. You know what say because there are allowed black people who said he did. He was good to them. So it's hard to say what exactly is deal. You know if he so he shot up to you. I shot appealed you. You know what sir what politicians do really they they try and galvanizing office to get the folks really more than anything else. And i'll say didn't work refer you know things in any fighting and globally. It wasn't really seen that way. I know of see. He knows america best. So of course it's really dating with the american people with is trying to do. That's why yet Very polarized because of the way with the at different things percent anyway. We weren't going to get policy politics side of things but Yeah i mean. I'm just saying june. This time he did bring up a lot of things to the surface. What was going on. America which people didn't see before or didn't realize an outsider from america. Me you know who doesn't know much about what was going in america might say. Oh we'll see a scout on there. Okay so let's get breck. So your book is going to be released on the fifteenth of april A preorder now if your music tells us about relationships and how people can treating to that. The saw the single that's out now is about what you wanna do. Yeah you your it on several spotify playlist on apple music playlists. I'm on pandora on you can go to tunes apple spotify amazon all anywhere music streaming you can get the songs follow me on instagram real rebecca. The real rebecca king crews bridge a and you can follow me on facebook and twitter by both of those handles there's a website regina module music dot com. There's a out the music. I have more singles coming out. In fact i'm releasing a new single with the book release in a single for the summer and then possibly by the time we hit the fall will be out with the rest of the songs so i'm still debating because on one hand everybody says just put out singles put out singles but i like the idea of an album so i may go ahead and just put the album out after promote diverse couple songs. Yeah yeah yeah still still got time to think of civil rights. Things are people still kind of more work from home situations. Well but you can count out but i really really affected as it really. Did you record your book. Music or the pandemic. I mean i recorded everything before the pandemic before. So he's promoting it from home during the s. yeah. I album like a year and a half of the two years ago Okay i was rap on. Oh there were just a couple of clearance design needed and final mixing and things like that. And then i had the cancer thing. I had that but i still really get moving. You know. i can't working on the final music and we were writing the book hand. That's what i was gonna say. Did the pandemic the idea come out. Wow you is together. During the book deal was before the pandemic we actually supposed to do the la book fair in october of and they were like no. No no. no. I take that back. The book fairs in late april lawyers right respond to do the april and we were shut and they said no. We can't do april because they don't think the country will be back opened so then they push to october another year. So finally we're doing the book fair. This may okay be okay now ally one though but it's virtual virtual okay and then we're doing an audible lie. Yeah so great. To tune in people can ask questions yes qb. I run because mike. Because i'm here on set with my son i have to tend to him on set and so i'm afraid i have to cut us just a little bit short today. Yeah no no no. We're going to move to the end anyway I was gonna say well. We've already mentioned where they can find your book kenya music. So yeah that's great. I'm gonna get your website at the end of the show. Orca amber to give me your your publicists. So we'll put that on the show notes so anyone listening. We will have a website for futures to look at Rebecca's music Reminded one of the website again. Even though all put it on shannon's it's regina modera- muse outcome. Yeah well regina military's your pseudo sudan name as well so Before you go. Do you have any other projects coming up for only the ones you mentioned that You're going to be doing the approachable. We're also launching a brands. I'll kind a luxury goods so we're going to be doing hand. Dad's olding cosmetics. And that's going to be around. October november twenty one. Fantastic well rebecca. It's been a great platter Speaking to you today on the show. Great honor having a speaking about life life being real a real person speaking about life of see what we all Gone for the con- topics that we spoke about today that people can relate to especially with the marriage and saint strong together. What would tip. Would you give for people out there in spy them. Sure there's lots no my for me is to encourage people to seek relationship with god. Nothing that i've experienced gone through as ever been easy. Yeah dot is made it easier There is a presence greater than ourselves. And i feel as though my greatest obligation to tell people when i tell them how to cope eastern here by yourself. You have a heavenly father who loves you who cares and his waiting for your call. And i know this to be a fact that i've gone through a lot of things that would have taken a lot of people but he held me. He carried me. And i don't doubt that he's carrying you and carrying all of us and we don't even know great over. Thanks for coming to show once again and inspiring. Al i would he instead i and a great pleasure having today thanks very much. Thank you dave. It's my pleasure. Sorry i have to run. And i've been in these zones and my poor son is by t asanga gsa doors so very a daddy's girl so show marina. Well keep myself busy as well. Sometimes right what's been some daddy time to say the same for you as well. Thanks a lot and the yeah. Hopefully we will have you or maybe on the show again one all right. Thank you so much for this episode. Then this thing and remember if you want to support what we do then sheer subscribe. And the abreu view over on apple podcasts or head over to my website dave palm dot com and click on rate show. But for now the. I'll see you in the next episode all the departure show on facebook twix at and instagram's.

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