5 Episode results for "West Valley Police Department"
"Due to the graphic nature of this episode listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of emotional abuse child pornography and murder that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under thirteen on December. Sixth two thousand nine snow fell lightly on the roof of Susan and Josh Powell's home in suburban West Valley City Utah just eleven miles outside of Salt Lake City. Twenty eight year old. Susan was exhausted or two. Young boys were running around the house and she was struggling to keep up. His wasn't the life she dreamed of but it was the one she had. Susan had spent the last few hours knitting blankets for her two sons. The one for her oldest Charlie had come out fine but the other for two year. Old Brayden was a disaster. Luckily she knew the perfect person to call for how it was early evening. When her friend? Giovanna owings came over. Susan wasn't feeling well and appreciated Giovanna 's willingness to help out as they make progress on the blanket Susan's husband. Josh went into the kitchen to prepare dinner when they all sat down to eat. Giovanna thought it was sweet. That Josh Served Susan her food first but she could tell. There was some tension. Nevertheless she held her tongue. Susan's marriage was none of her business. After dinner they kept working on the blanket but Susan was getting more tired with each passing minute soon. She excused herself claiming she felt tired and was going to lie down. Giovanna stayed help finish the blanket but at five thirty PM. Josh said he and the kids were going out sledding. She took it as her cue to leave and glanced back toward the bedroom. She hoped Susan would feel better soon. But that wouldn't be the case by the next morning the entire family was missing and Susan would never be found. Welcome to gone a podcast original molly. And I'm Richard every other Monday. We examined mysterious disappearances and the theories they spawned from the Amber Room to Michael Rockefeller Picasso paintings to the entrusting language the roanoke colony to the lost Russian cosmonauts. If it's gone we're looking for it. You can find all episodes have gone and all other are cast. Originals for free on spotify. Or wherever. You LISTEN TO PODCASTS. To Stream Gone Freon spotify. Just open the APP and type gone in the search bar at podcast cast. We're grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast network? And if you enjoyed today's episode the best way to help us is to leave a five star review. Wherever you're listening. It really does help today. We're looking into the disappearance of Susan Powell. A mother of two from a quiet suburb outside of Salt Lake. City UTAH. Despite the Powell families picture-perfect exterior the in crisis after years of marital strife Susan vanished on the evening of December. Sixth two thousand nine. Two theories have emerged to explain what might have happened to her. Some believe that Susan may have dropped everything and run away with the lover others think that Susan never had a chance to leave because her jealous husband Josh murder. Susan Cox was a precocious ten year old. When her parents moved to the suburbs of Tacoma Washington in nineteen ninety one she was the third of four girls and her parents were used to having their patients tested the household as a whole was incredibly loving. There were also deeply religious and regularly attended a local Mormon temple. Susan's faith became a cornerstone of her life and dictated many of her decisions. She and her three sisters often played music and saying during Church Services. Her happy supportive. Upbringing helped Susan grow into confident. Bubbly Young Woman. She was extremely outgoing and her classmates knew her for her great sense of humor. She was popular and widely liked by the time she started high school. Susan had planned out her entire life. She was going to marry the perfect Mormon guy and open up a business with her sisters. A beauty parlour groomer hybrid where pet owners and their animals could both get their hair done. They were going to call it. Beauty and your beast. It was a fun youthful dream as Susan. Got Older or goals became more grounded. But she never let go of her love of the beauty industry when she was eighteen. A local cosmetology school offered her a scholarship and she sees the opportunity when Susan graduated from High School in two thousand. Her Future was looking bright. She dove headfirst into her classes at beauty school. She was often spotted around town in her car. Upon closer inspection passersby would notice a pile of practice mannequin heads strewn across the back seat. Susan's friends were always sporting new hairdos. Susan had styled. While Susan worked hard in school she was still completely committed to the church and she was still looking for a future. Mormon husband which was incredibly important in her religion. The summer after she graduated high school she began to attend singles functions. That are local temple there. Eighteen year old. Susan met twenty-three-year-old Josh Powell. It wasn't love at first sight when he invited her to a dinner party at his apartment she turned him down however a few weeks later. Susan changed her mind and took him up on the offer. Maybe they were more people. She could meet their but surprisingly at the party. She found herself drawn to Josh. He was a little Dorky but she liked his dry sense of humor. He was different from the boys she'd met in high school. He seemed more adult. Sure he'd never gone on his mission which was considered a pre Iraq for a good Mormon husband but he was in church now so Susan believed his faith was pure class. Josh was enrolled in the business program at the University of Washington Tacoma which meant he was thinking of the future. She decided to stay late after one of his dinner parties to help him clean up and wound up staying over. They talked early into the next morning falling asleep while whispering secrets to one another. He told her his parents divorced when he'd been a teenager. And the turbulent home. He'd grown up in. He wanted a tough line with his dad was not only agnostic but staunchly. Anti Mormon citizens sympathized with Josh's struggles and admired his appearance commitment to the faith. They soon began to date. After only two months Josh proposed to Susan and she said Yes while it may have seemed fast to those outside of the community too many Mormons. It isn't unusual. The couple was married in a small ceremony at the Portland Oregon Temple in April. Two Thousand One shortly after the wedding. They decided to move in with Josh's father. Steve Powell the couple one to save money after all Josh needed to pay off his student loans however the life they found in Steve's home was less than ideal the house was crowded several of Joshua's siblings were living there with their families. To and Josh's Dad was odd. He often had his video camera on hand and recorded everything. He came across even the most private moments and often without permission. That wasn't the only source of frustration. Citizens started to feel pressure. Put Her dreams on hold. Josh was close to graduating with his bachelors and neither knew where they go after he got his degree. If he found a job out of state she didn't know if she could finish beauty school but Susan told herself didn't matter she loved Josh so she was okay waiting for him to make the big decisions about their lives in two thousand two. Josh graduated from the University of Washington Tacoma with a business degree it was joyous time for both his hard work. It paid off and they were going to really start their life together but Joshua's various business plans never panned out. He lacked follow through. He got an entry level job. But they stayed at Steve's House Josh couldn't afford to pay off his loans and make rent and things were own getting stranger at home. Stephen taken an odd liking to his daughter-in-law he regularly made awkward comments about Susan's body. She acted as if nothing was happening. Only shrugging them off. Hoping he'd get the hint but Steve Only escalated his attention. Susan could tell someone was going through her laundry sometimes. Her underwear would go missing. She tried to ignore it. It might have been one of her young nephews just playing around but she could never shake the thought that it could have been Steve. Two in two thousand and three things came to ahead. Josh had considered becoming a commercial truck driver and Susan went along with him to a practice class for moral support. She was waiting for Josh's class to finish when Steve called and offered to drive her home. She agreed but on the road. He professed his love for her. Susan was floored but she kept her cool. She laughed off his advances as nothing more than a joke and kept quiet for the rest of the ride when they got home. Susan went to her room and waited for Josh when he finally got back. She told him they needed to leave. It was non-negotiable. There were only a few places they could afford to go one being Salt Lake City. Where one of Josh's sisters lived. They packed everything and left on Christmas. Eve thousand three for a year. The couple lived with Josh's sister then in two thousand four. They bought their own home. Initially Susan. Hope. This was a fresh start. But their marriage only went downhill. Josh couldn't hold down a job and Susan had to pick up his slack. She gave up her dream of her own does Matala she business accepting a job at wellsfargo. Josh was frustrated by the turn their lives and taken and stopped attending church. Susan was even more disappointed in his lack of faith. But just as the mirrored seemed unsalvageable. She discovered she was pregnant. Josh seemed really excited to be a father so he and Susan committed to making things work in two thousand five. Susan gave birth to their first son. Charley and then two years later Raden came into their lives. Josh and Susan adored the boys unconditionally but their love for one another was routinely tested. Josh was increasingly controlling. He Criticize Susan for tithing or giving ten percent of her earnings to the church. She in turn became disappointed in his lack of business sense. This was never more apparent than the time he decided to become an independent real estate agent. He'd never sold a piece of property before but he signed a contract with the yellow pages for over eighty thousand dollars worth of advertisements. He quickly lost interest in the idea and stopped paying for the ADS. It didn't take long for yellow pages to file a lawsuit. Susan worked tirelessly to bring in enough money to afford groceries for her family and work off Josh's debts. She was still a dreamer but her dreams were a lot smaller now. She just wanted to be able to hold everything together. Her life was a far cry from what she thought it would be when she was eighteen. By two thousand eight their relationship wasn't shambles. She became increasingly worried that he would do something rash but she stuck with him because of her unwavering Mormon faith in the LDS church. A marriage is eternal and unbreakable even if the couple legally divorces God put Josh in her life for a reason and she wanted her kids to have a conventional family and either way she couldn't just leave. She knew Josh would do anything to keep the boys with him. She didn't seriously think he'd ever hurt his sons but she wasn't sure he'd be so protective of her. Just in case in two thousand eight she wrote a letter and put it in a safety deposit box. She told her co worker that if anything happened to her even if it looked like it was an accident. Josh had probably done something she told them the letter would explain everything. Eighteen months later she vanished coming up the day Susan disappeared. Hi It's molly. I'm so excited for you to check out the new podcast original series daily quote. If you haven't had a chance to hear it yet daily quote is two to three minute. Podcast meant to inspire uplift and motivate your day every day hosted by the extremely talented Cape Leonard daily quote not only shares a meaningful quote from history but also gives you the context in meaning behind it and right now. I'm thrilled to be able to share today's quote with you. It's by the American poet singer and civil rights activists my Angelo. If you enjoy this episode make sure to follow daily quote free on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Good morning and welcome to daily quote. A podcast original. I'm Kate Leonard. Today's quote is from award winning author poet and Civil Rights Activist Maya Angelo. She said have enough courage to trust. Love One more time and one more time. Maya Angelou is best known for her. Nineteen sixty-nine Memoir. I know why the caged bird sings. It made history as a first bestselling work of nonfiction by a black American woman. Hers is a story of immense strength born in segregated. Saint Louis Missouri. Maya could have easily grown to hate those who oppressed her. She could have allowed bitterness to define her outlook limit her future instead. She chose to love herself and allowed that love to validate her ambitions. She became an actress and performer. A leader in the civil rights movement and an award winning Memoir Ist and poet. It takes radical courage to love ourselves. We will not always succeed. We may feel discouraged when our go unmet or relationship breaks but if we can have the courage to show ourselves compassion we will always be able to begin again this morning. Take a moment to honor the things you cherish about yourself. Acknowledge the progress. You have made on your journey of self discovery. You deserve to fall madly in love with the person you are. And the person you'll become daily quote is a daily podcast. Follow on spotify to make it part of your morning routine and let it inform the rest of your day. Daily quote is a podcast original. If you're listening on spotify you can share this quote with your friends on social by tapping the three dots in the top right corner of the episode. Page scrolling down to share and selecting your sharing option of choice. Remember you can find new paths to positively three hundred sixty five days a year followed daily quote free on spotify or wherever you get your podcast now. Back to the story. Susan and Josh Powell had been married since two thousand and had two young boys Charlie and Britain but their life in suburban Salt Lake City was anything but ideal. Josh was increasingly controlling. But Susan didn't feel like she could leave her marriage. They were all last seen together on the evening of December. Sixth two thousand nine by a neighbor who was helping Susan Nigga blanket the next morning Monday December seven daycare owner. Debbie Caldwell noted that Charlie and Brayden Powell didn't check in their usual time. She called Susan but didn't get an answer. The boys absence was unusual and Susan ignoring her phone even more so debbie hopped into her car to visit. Susan at home. They've been dusting of snow the night before and Moore was on. Its Way. The roads were a little slack. Nothing UNUSUAL FOR UTAH. It was bitterly cold as debbie stepped out of her car. She couldn't see that anyone was home but it was hard to tell from the street. Debbie walked up to the door and knocked no answer. She Tried Josh's phone but the results were the same. She appeared in the window but couldn't see anything. Debbie was getting worried only a few weeks before another local family had been killed by carbon monoxide poisoning in their home. She hoped the Powell's had met the same fate. Debbie called Joshua's sister Jennifer to see if she knew anything. Jennifer was just as concerned as Debbie. When she heard the boys hadn't shown up for daycare they decided to call the police and ask for a welfare check less than an hour later. A squad car. Roll down the street and pulled into the driveway. The officer was polite and agreed to take a look around. He glanced through the window but couldn't see anything. He has Jennifer if you had permission to enter the premises in. She granted it. The patrolman broke a window and climbed into the House then. He came around and unlocked the door for Debbie and Jennifer. The first thing they noticed was music. It came from a stereo in the living room. As did the sound of a box fan humming by the couch. The Fan was pointed at a damn spot on the carpet and furniture. Something had been cleaned up since it was still slightly wet. He knew the family hadn't been gone long. They called out for the Powell's no answer. The officer checked each of the bedrooms. Nobody was home but they noted a few clues. Susan's purse was on the cabinet in the hallway and when they went to check the garage. The mini van was missing Jennifer new. The Powell's wouldn't just leave town without telling her first and Susan definitely wouldn't leave her purse behind. They continued to phone. Josh Hoping He'd answer and tell them that was fine. Jennifer couldn't bear to wait around in the eerily empty house. She went home where the hours stretched on still no word from her brother and his family while the clock ticked the police department put together a search team. A few hours later lead detective. Ls Maxwell arrived the Powell residents as he stepped out of the patrol car. He noticed a group of neighbors gathered outside. The neighbors. Were happy to talk to the detective. All defending Susan. She would never have done anything like this without telling them I. Her boys were her world and she wouldn't just take off disrupting their schedules. Josh on the other hand was a different story he was impulsive. The neighbors hoped that this was just another one of Josh's last minute trips that he'd simply convinced Susan in the boys to come along. They probably come home soon. Meanwhile word of the Powell's disappearance was spreading at three PM Giovanna owning the last person to see Susan alive got wind of the gossip. Her son was home from school and decided to call Josh to his utter shock. Josh answered panicked her son Hung Up. Giovanna grabbed his phone and called back. It rang rang and rang. When suddenly there was a click and meek answer it was Josh. Giovanna was square. Confirm with their questions. Where was he? Did he have the boys with him? Where was Susan? When was he coming home? He should know the police were looking for him. Joshes answers came slowly and he stammered through slightly confused. He had his sons and they were going to be back soon despite Yavuz please. He quickly hung up. It was a relief to know Charlie in Brayden were safe but Giovanna couldn't shake nagging feeling deep inside that all of the problems were just beginning two hours later. Josh called his sister Jennifer she answered but like Giovanna. She was concerned by his tone. He didn't give a concrete nation for where he'd gone and he hung up abruptly after getting off the phone. Jennifer raced over to the Powell House to wait for Josh there. She found detective Ellis Maxwell and filled him in the detective immediately called Josh from her phone and told him he needed to come home now at six forty pm. Josh drove up the street past the police cars and onlookers before he pulled into his driveway. Detective Maxwell was the first one to make it to the car from the driver's seat. Josh only stared at him blankly. It seemed that he didn't care that so many people were looking for him. Maxwell saw the two children in the back. But there was no sign of Josh's wife Susan however the detective noticed her phone on the passenger seat. He asked the Josh where his wife was. But Josh said that he had no idea he'd last seen her the night before but he'd been gone all day. He taken the boys out on a camping trip. That answer made little sense. Why would josh go out camping in the middle of the night with his two young sons? And why would he take his wife cellphone on top of that? It had been Sunday evening. Just a few hours before Josh was supposed to go to work and it was snowing. Maxwell told Josh that he needed to come to the police station for questioning. Josh agreed and trailed Maxwell's car he let the investigators know that he would help them in any way that he could but he was adamant that he hadn't seen Susan's since the night before at the police station. Josh was taken into a small room there. Maxwell asked Josh if he had any idea where Susan could be. Josh said he simply had no idea. Maxwell kept on questioning. Josh gave shifty answers. He claimed he'd gone to a place called Simpson Springs campground to try out some new camping equipment. He said he'd simply lost track of time thinking. It was Saturday instead of Sunday drew maxwell. Josh seemed extremely uninterested in helping locate Susan. He didn't show any sense of urgency regarding her disappearance. He just kept repeating that. He didn't know why she'd left. Everything about their marriage had seemed fine to him. It was frustrating. But there was only so much they could do. Maxwell let Josh go after their interrogation after all he hadn't been accused of anything at nine PM on December seventh. Two thousand nine. Josh Powell drove home again and parked his van. Neighbors later reported that they saw the light in the garage all night long and heard the sounds of cleaning by the next morning word. Got Out that. A suburban woman had gone missing under mysterious circumstances. The local news station followed the case closely two days later on December ninth. Detectives were back at the Powell residence. This time with a search warrant they were going to see if they could find any new information that could lead them to Susan in the living room by the Fan. They came across a few droplets of blood on the bottom half of the wall. They swabbed these incent them back to a lab for tests. The carpet gave up no clues. It had been thoroughly cleaned and didn't have any traces of blood. The van was completely cleaned out. Glaze were only able to find the camping supplies. That Josh had claimed he was testing the next day. The investigators drove out to Simpson's springs were. Josh claimed he'd gone with his two boys. But the harsh landscape offered no clues it had been snowing for the past three days and any tracks that could have been left were obscured. It was a vast desolate wilderness. And the police were unable to locate his supposed- campsite to an outsider. Looking in it appeared. Susan had been killed and Josh was prime suspect. His later behavior only made things worse. Josh quit his job. After Susan disappeared then pulled his two sons at daycare and on December fourteenth. He hired a lawyer claiming he was tired of being badgered authorities. Ten days later on December twenty four. Th Josh was publicly named a person of interest in Susan's disappearance it was the best that the West Valley Police Department could do. After all there was still no physical evidence. Even so suspicion was growing in the community and Josh wanted out of Salt Lake City from the sideways glances in the grocery store to the looks of judgment from his neighbors. He couldn't take it on January. Sixth Two thousand ten. Josh packed up his belongings and headed back to Washington. The police were powerless to stop him a month. After his wife went missing he too was gone and the moment he left. He stopped helping authorities altogether. The chances of finding Susan Alive diminish coming up theories on what happened to Susan. Was she a runaway in love or a victim of a tragedy. Now back to the story it had been. Nearly a year's in Susan Powell disappeared on December. Sixth two thousand nine. The authorities were fairly certain that she'd been murdered but they had no physical evidence to prove it. Their main person of interest Susan's husband. Josh Powell was hundreds of miles away. He and his two boys were living in Puyallup. Washington was the Josh's father Steve. He hadn't cooperated with the investigation since he left Utah. Meanwhile Josh and his son settled in with Steve. It had been six years since Josh's father hit on his wife causing the couple to move away but josh felt perfectly at home with Steve even better. The police attention wasn't so intense in Washington and out of the spotlight. Josh could look after his boys without judgment. Meanwhile he and Steve Tried to answer the accusations with their own version of events. They had a theory and they were going to let the media know about it. Josh and Steve said that Susan had run away to be with another man named Stephen. Coacher coacher was a thirty year old from Saint George a town in southwest Utah. They claim that he'd gone missing around the same time as Susan. Steve and Josh had Susan's diaries and claim that this wasn't the first time she lusted. After another man. In fact they said that Susan and coacher had been entangled in extramarital affair. Supposedly Susan had left to right after Josh wink camping with the boys she met up with coacher and they flew away together to Brazil coach. I was familiar with the country since he served as mission there the were shocking and completely out of character for Susan. It's nearly impossible to analyze this theory. Josh didn't offer any evidence to suggest that Susan had ever even met Stephen Coacher. In fact phone records showed that there was never any contact between the two of them coach. You're also had gone missing on December thirteenth. Two thousand nine almost a full week after Susan on top of that while he was from Utah. He'd gone missing in Henderson. Nevada local security cameras captured the last time. Coacher was seen the video showed him walking down a cul de sac in Nevada alone too many including Susan's parents. It seemed Josh was using this alleged affair to deflect attention away from himself and he'd only want to create red herrings because he was responsible for Susan's disappearance Susan's family and the local authorities long suspected that he'd murdered his wife. Even Susan herself testified to that possibility after her disappearance. The police located her safety deposit. Box the one. She told her co worker about inside was a videotape and a handwritten letter in the letter. She wrote her marital problems with Josh. And how she feared for her life if anything happened to her. She insisted that it would be Joshua's fault of you of her friends told authorities that before she vanished. Susan had given Josh an ultimatum. If they didn't fix their marriage she'd leave with the boys in the spring. Allegedly Josh couldn't deal with that possibility. Instead he killed Susan and left her body somewhere out in the Utah Desert. The evidence seemed to support this theory. A lab confirmed that the blood found on the homes wall was Susan's police. Also discovered that Josh had cashed out Susan's retirement fund and had placed a one point five million dollar life insurance policy on her where he was the sole beneficiary. However all of this still wasn't enough to charge Josh. Police didn't have a weapon. Or even any conclusive evidence that Susan was dead. The best lead they had was the blood but Susan have lived in her home for years. It wasn't unheard of for a trace amount of blood to have been splattered on the wall after a minor cut and with two small children spills on the carpet and couch were par for the course. Answers were allusive for detective. Maxwell and the West Valley Police Department with Josh. Out of the State. It was even harder to conduct an investigation. As the years passed they were unable to Locate Susan. Alive or dead since they couldn't find her. It was impossible to tie any evidence back to Josh. Coacher or anyone else but the PAO family saga was far from over in September. Two Thousand Eleven Police in Utah uncovered a suspected burial site in the middle of the desert officials in Washington rated Steve Pals home. He had a strong alibi for the night of her disappearance but they hope they'd find some kind of evidence awesomely. Something Josh had brought with him when he moved from Utah Instead. They found countless hard drives full of elicit videos and images many involve minors in some have been recorded by Steve. The police also found old videos of Steve Stocking Susan without her knowledge on September. Twenty Third Two Thousand Eleven Steve Powell was arrested on charges of child pornography and voyeurism. Nothing they found in Steve's home could be used to explain Susan's case and the search in the desert also turned up. Nothing but josh still felt the heat. The media attention in both states was back on the Powell family. Additionally Steve was no longer allowed to live with minors which meant Josh and his two sons needed to move. Josh claimed that he'd found a place to live but the court soon figured out that he was lying he was still residing with his dad. Custody was handed over to Susan's parents. Chuck and Judy. But Josh wasn't going to take the ruling lying down he went to the courts to fight to get his kids back after all. He hadn't been convicted of a crime and the government. Just take his sons away. The judge ordered Josh to go get psychological evaluations to see if he was fit to be the boy's guardian. In the meantime he was given supervised visitation rights. Josh hated that his boys weren't with him full time but he always treasured the hours they spent together. He settled into his new normal as best he could and he continued to resist the police's efforts to find Susan. By the time February. Two thousand twelve game around. She'd been gone for over two years and the case was cold. Authorities had discussed charging Josh for the crime but they couldn't find any substantial evidence to ensure conviction. They were helpless however they didn't let Josh note this publicly. He was still a person of interest and with more searches in the desert planned. They wanted Josh to sweat. He professed his innocence to anyone who asked he told them all he wanted to do was move on with his life so that he could raise his boys right. He was convinced that his sons were being corrupted into thinking he was a monster he couldn't bear to see them turned against him and to dark plan began to form well. Josh never admitted to any wrongdoing and Susan's disappearance his actions on February fifth. Two Thousand Twelve painted a grim picture of what he was capable of that morning. A social worker pulled up to Joshua's newly rented house for a supervised visit Charlie in Brayden. We're looking forward to spending time with their dad. As the car came to a stop they bounded out ahead of the social worker. She ambled up behind. The Ms Josh stood in the entrance. The two boys ran inside but before she could get there. The door slammed shut. It was locked she naught but Josh didn't open up. She immediately called nine. One one minutes later Josh's lawyer received an email with no subject line from Josh. The message was short. I'm sorry goodbye outside of his house. The social worker was frantic. She didn't know what Josh was planning on what he was capable love. No one was there to help and they wouldn't be for several minutes a moment later there was a violent blast and the house was engulfed in flames. It had blown up by the time the authorities arrived. The inferno was raging. Nothing to be done once. The fire was extinguished. Investigators surveyed the home. The bodies of Josh and his boys were found in the rubble. He'd intentionally set the fire and had attacked his two sons with a hatchet before the fumes got to them. The thin veil of presumed innocence could no longer protect him. The young family whose future had once seemed so bright came to an end. Because of Josh Powell given Josh's murderer of his children it seems almost like a foregone conclusion. That Josh had a hand in Susan's disappearance. His accounts of the night in questions seem incredibly suspect in his actions. Two years later proved that he was capable. But there's still no hard evidence to prove Josh Killed Susan or even that she's dead to this day. Susan Powell remains a missing person. No one has ever been charged with her disappearance. Thanks again for tuning into gone. We'll be back next week. Was a short gone. Bide on spotify and back everywhere else the week after you can find more episodes of gone and all other park has two originals for free on spotify. Not only the spotify already. Have all of your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy. All of your favorite podcast originals. Like gone for free from your phone. Desktop or smart speaker to stream gone on spotify. Just open the APP and type in the search bar and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at broadcast network. We'll see next time. Just because it's gone doesn't mean it can't be found gone was created by Max Cutler. In his parking studios original executive producers include Max and Ron Cutler sound designed by Scott Stronach with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Carly Madden and Travis Clark. This episode of Gone was written by Robert Tyler Walker with writing assistance by Maggie Admire and stars Molly Brandenburg and Richard. Rosner remember. You can find new paths to positively every day of the year. Follow daily quote three on spotify or wherever. You get your podcast.
Full Episode: Friday, November 13, 2020
"The me covering all my bases making sure that if something happens to me or my family voice on the other end said when was the last time we saw season i instantly kind of felt like gerard. Twenty eight year old. Susan powell was last seen sunday. It has been three days and counting and missing for a week. Shosh taken the children on a middle of the night camping trip. It was freezing cold. None of this makes any sense. It was like yeah. The kids are here now. Susan's not with me. And i was like where is she was like. I don't know you can't be the children. Said mommy was in the van but didn't come back with us. Pretty significant thing for a four year old odd. Susan had often referred to her father-in-law creepy. There was stephen wanting to be interviewed if he ends up. Revealing the biggest bombshell interacting with a lot of sexual ways. Because i enjoy doing jeff goes as far as to say if i died. It may not be axed from one minutes off all up. His a smaller town located areas protected from wind and rain from the mountains around seattle tacoma. It's me it's growing low crime. Lots of children clip there. Lots of families. People are members of the church. Reduce christ latter-day saints interconnected premature. It's kind of a very typical american in puyallup washington where these two families. And these two lives intersect. Josh powell and susan cox. Susan was a one of four daughters. Born to chuck and judy cox. She was just you know a really typical girl teenager. She liked to ride horses She's my partner crime. Susan tried to be rebellious too hard. She was doing well in church and school had french. She loved choir. She liked her hair. Done your nails done. Were solace close. Susana gonda cosmetology school. She liked to make other people feel good about themselves. She got interested boys as a teenager. She josh when she was eighteen at as social event for yuck mormons and he was in his twenties and she hadn't on immature jesus christ of latter day saints. If you are unmarried you can attend a congregation. That is for other unmarried individuals. And so josh and susan are both kind of circulating in this singles crowd there. Are these incredible home movies. Taken by josh. Which later released by police. Show the couple's glossman relationship. When i first met josh guess. I thought he was cute. He was very confident and thought he could gain girl he wanted. Susan said that he was treating her really well and he cared about her and he romsey maker happy. Josh cowl was a ambitious strong headed kind of nerdy guy. Just tall dorky has heads too big for shoulders. He just looked awkward. He's got her jobbies got his own place and he's going to call sounded pretty good. He's going to go to school for business so he somebody who is right when he applied themselves very quickly fell in live. See pictures of them. They looked to be completely smitten. Josh and susan's relationship goes from not knowing each other all in october. Two being engaged by the end of december when. She told me she was getting married. I wasn't that supportive because she barely knew him and she just assured me that she's going to be really happy and he wanted in life. What shoe those videos also captured josh susan's wedding and the home life. They built together in. What very pretty and her wedding very traditional lawn white dress feathering in that off in half. She was very excited to show off josh and start their lives together. Let's see the ring. Let's hold your hand up please. It's a young person's love story the quickly becomes as the reception. Went off on joshua's her more more taking pictures hanging out with this family and then disappearing. I can tell she's getting more agitated. Susan and josh didn't have much money and they found themselves doing some odd jobs just to get by. Susan actually was the financial provider he kept going in and out of jobs and was never really settled with anything they moved to west valley city utah because they were looking for a better life. They wanted to improve their economic situation. They buy a house and they start to have a family. I still remember the day. She told me she was pregnant. It was probably the most impactful day of her life. She was so excited to be long. I would describe josh as unattached dab. Josh wanted to hold charlie when he wanted. Show them off to people. But that ain't want to change his diaper feed him or give him a bath medi cal and then they had brayton. If you look at the family pictures there is joy and there is sparkle as little as they were mischievous and ran around being typical. Happy little voice. What are you watching cars and season more than in the world monday morning december. Seven two thousand nine. They didn't show up debbie caldwell. She is the daycare provider for charleen brake pedal. By seven o'clock still home susan. She had to be to work at seven. That's like susan to be late and not call. They don't show that monday morning. As the snowstorms coming in and debbie caldwell becomes concerned gabby tried to call susan on the phone tried to josh. Couldn't reach anybody. So i got in the van and i wind up the streets to our house and as i pulled into her circle. There was no tire tracks in the driveway so pounded on the door. And i got no answer. Debbie calls the emergency contact. Which is joshua sister. Jennifer graves and josh's mom. Terri powell conclusion that we came to was carbon monoxide. There probably dead in their beds. We ended up calling the police. Then one son and his wife and their two children not responding to calls and then responding to people coming on their doors and there's no tracks coming out of the driveway. Maybe gases in less time or something like that and a couple of officers. Come out on a welfare check. They determined that the best course of action is to break a window to see whether or not the families in there and they said we'll go in if you'll pay for the window and so we said yeah absolutely. They find evidence that pointed to some unusual circumstances. Why would that be here. That just wasn't a normal thing looking for your next. Tv obsession then get ready for big sky on abc. This pulse pounding thrill ride from david. Kelly creator of big little is is going to suck you in from the very start when two sisters go missing under the wide open skies the montana private detective. Kassian cody along with his ex wife. Jenny team up to find them before. It's too late but soon they'll unravel in even deeper mystery. That'll keep the twists and turns coming till the very end. Big sky premieres tuesday november seventeenth on. Abc on monday morning utilize this summer and ice straight. Huda four meet snow in this summer. Seventh two thousand nine. The bankruptcy case and sergeant cast to reach out to patrol route on a missing family out on the west side of town. Jennifer gave permission with the police to break a window and go into the house. Mazda officers just kind of shimmy dan. here's like what is up with. The fans there to box fans pointed at the carpet in the living room and we were all confused. The officers the entire residents and found nobody inside the home and the powell vehicle which was Blue minivan. it wasn't parked in the garage. First thing i saw was susan's purse was on a table. And i started pulling out things. I found her keys. Her wallet at her driver's license in her credit cards. You would expect that if she had left on her own was intending to go someplace. You with taking those items. The kitchen. the master bedroom was was fairly clean. I mean bed wasn't made a bedroom for the children. The blankets were missing but yeah the houses pretty orderly. There was no sign of disturbance. His closet ation inside of the residence number seven. I was sitting in my family room. Schooling my three kids and phone ring voice on the other end said josh susan and the boys are missing and nobody seems for most horrible sickening feeling. I just thought what has happened. Susan's friends were afraid that they gone out on a jaunt because josh like to drive and take photographs and maybe slipped off a cliff or they got stuck in the snow. I made a few phone calls asking other people in the foundation. If anyone had seen susan giovanna. I actually had dinner with them last night. Susan astro von at. Come over to the house and help her with her knitting and crocheting while she was there. Josh who never did anything domestic at all offered to make people dinner us crocheting under blanket. I was working on the yarn shosh and the boys were in the kitchen cooking. He called his father steve to ask for a recipe for pancakes. Everything you did his little bit different routine than anybody else would have. He made them one by one. He took a played into travolta. He took plate with different. Pancakes made obviously into susan in the boys ate at the table and brought our our plates into us in the in the moving news. That was probably very unusual. I never ever witnessed them ever eating in the living room. Shortly after that. Susan began to not feel susan. Lay down and josh sort of suggested. Giovanna that it was time for her to leave. He was gonna take the boys sledding and he and the boys actually drove out before i had finished putting on my seat belt last time. I saw that he around five. My brother finally called right away. Asked about the kids asked about susan and he was like yeah. The kids are here now. Citizens not with me and i was like where is shake and he was like. I don't know. I have no idea if she went to work. Josh drives all the way south to a place called point of the mountain and he plays a phone call to susan's phone. We are on our way back. And i can't believe how my brain today type today with funding. That was really really all talk. Southern waited was a long time. It was an hour maybe more. Josh finally showed up the house. Josh had taken the children on a middle of the night camping trip it was freezing cold. None of this makes any sense except to him. He does things spontaneously without any plan and he took the kids. He said that he left. Susan in the house she was sleeping really wanted to talk with josh. And we wanted to record a. We had josh followers to the substation. He was adamant about taking the boys with him. When's the last time you seen her. Probably about nick knight of last night. We're finishing up. a movie. Movie is watching josh. And he uses the kids who are in the room to distract the way wasn't forthcoming with answers or information so it was very frustrating. Where did you drive to like. Started heading sow. Lilla turned onto the pony express heliport employees expressed as you go maybe twenty models. I don't know so. What did you do once you got there. Hooked up the heater little boy. Josh said they drove to simpson's springs and had s'mores over a campfire. It's not really very clear exactly what happened that evening and the next morning. We asked him if we could searches minivan and he agreed. The mini van was full of camping supplies like there was a tar but generator shovel graham crackers during a search of the minivan where they find susan's phone hidden in this era console. It's this pink cellphone clearly josh. Then he was of like karen headlights just kind of looked at us in no way. Did it make any sense. Susan cell phone him van with them. Where the heck was susan. Detectives talked to josh and susan son. Charley there was one particular statement that raised a lot of eyebrows. Canting to move down your and your brother down the street from the powell's qc. Halloween sat in a downstairs. Wondering where is. Susan then came news meter hobie faster. Her stomach on some songs lost it Nine o'clock that night. Jennifer told me that josh and the boys are home and mike will wear susan. She said we don't know as soon as i heard that he was back at. Susan was not with them. I instantly said to myself. What has he done. It became like this game of telephone where people were passing along. Little bits of information and suddenly a larger story was coming together. He said he was out driving around the boys. And i'm like you crazy man. He was that hundred percent josh. He did that kind of stuff. All this susan would never allow him to ever take the boys out in the winter to the desert in the middle of the night never. I never believed his story at all was determined. We didn't have enough probable cause to secure search warrant for the residents but loan book. Joshing jail having physical future state because he burns this metal object into so thoroughly destroyed. Was this item that nobody to this day and say what exactly it was bags and and things are shoved into the garbage. Why would you do that the day after your wife disappears following morning. He is observed with the minivan pulled out of the garage. All the doors open thoroughly cleaning wiping it down vacuuming it. Really odd to me. Because he was running around the house grabbing piles of towels and put them in the washer. And finally we're like you've got to go to your interview with a suit. Josh cow kind of has a uniform sorts. it's typically a t shirt. It's a leather jacket denim pants and it's a dingy white shoes. When josh goes in to talk to the police in the tape you see him. Initially acting very emotional. But i didn't think it was that i didn't even thinking yesterday crying. His voice is she. he's just trying to hold it together. But as detective maxwell continues to push josh about what's going on joshua's demeanor changes over what we were doing. Guys did from six o'clock till he went to bed on saturday night. Mm-hmm activity we were doing. Josh is not a participant at all in talking about his missing wife shows no in getting out to look for her during the day. But have you checked any places where she could be. He asks police no questions about what they're doing to find her places. We can find her. She would be there and he offers no suggestions really about where they might look on the ask you this and ask one question how life while i'm interviewing him. Another colleague conducted a child. Forensic interview says scott. Nice late pretty. We went to the children's justice center and they were able to interview. Charlie braiding really wouldn't talk to them. Hey what did you do last night. Right cam bank camping with my grander children's said mommy was in the van but didn't come back with us. A pretty significant thing for a four year old to god in the earth change i heart. You went to an airplane yesterday. Charlie's interview is perplexing because he says a lot of things that don't make much sense case. Charlie when you guys came home from camping who came home with you guess and so state rare creases are. There was one particular statement that raised a lot of eyebrows. Mommy is with the crystals and how some people interpreted that was that the boys had been with her mom and she was not alive. That has last night thing that she didn't go with your kids live in his life. Sometimes they'd have with children. They're gonna go from threads of truth and reality to fantasy and maybe things that happened along before mom disappeared there still in his memory and in his mind sort of phases together. She was not with us. I didn't leave her opponents breath. I didn't take her dropped her off or even do anything i do want. The lawyer has at this point. I definitely want a lawyer. Trigger vibrant and booked into jail could have but we wanted to find susan. So we're finished. Gps tracker we want him to be out. And about and subaru goes. Instead of picking up his ban he went to the airport. He rented a ford focus and he vanishes in that rental car for eighteen hours and when he returns that rental car did has an additional eight hundred seven miles on tuesday. We don't know where. Josh went very quickly. The police realized that josh was lying to than that. He was evasive and he was not acting like a bereaved husband. When detectives spoke with susan's friends. There was a very different picture of this marriage. She to see a divorce lawyer and he told her to make a videotape me covering all my bases developing story. The search continues this morning missing. Wife and mother in west valley city had been hearing some buzz and the community that there was a woman who was missing twenty eight year old. Susan powell was last sunday night. A family dinner with other friends. It has been three days four days and counting missing for a week you talk. It's missing persons cases almost every day. So listen really. Stand out as anything out normal. Abc force brian. Carlson live of the west valley police station tonight. Until you start to hear some of the details on unwrap. We've learned the search warrants for the powell's home have now been sealed off strange that he came home with the kids and not her valley city. Police calling ah puzzle suspicious. Not even a clue if you see her know anything. Please contact the west valley police department. Her friends and family were just starting to ask questions. They were out there with flyers just trying to find out where she might be. Volunteers fanned out handing out. Fires of susan powell josh. After missing he went from the guy who was talking about everything and new everything to somebody who said nothing new nothing and a husband who says he does not know what has happened to her. We know the answers are out there and we need those who know where she is. What happened to come forward. I held a candlelight vigil. A few days into her disappearance and josh came to that late after the candlelight vigils over josh powell did show up here in the park with his two children but he quickly left without saying anything. Charlie had come up to me and he was telling me debbie. My hands are cold. My hands are cold. And josh scoop charlie. Up in china pulled him away like this reporter for trying to chase them through the snow and he was walking away from them camping with the boy. Go get my boys. There was no point at which josh ever seem to even be concerned that susan was saying if you wanted to help on the website. He should've detailed timeline. He never participated in any of the massive amounts of efforts that myself and relatives and friends launched to put out flyers and malls and parking lots. He didn't seem like he was engaged at all and what was going on. It seemed like his mind was somewhere else. He spoke very briefly with local. I've been trying to figure out what i can do so. I don't sit idle kneeling. With this repeatedly. People were upset that he didn't seem upset that she was missing and so people. That's because he's guilty josh league. Give us a comment today. Pointing fingers at joshua. I don't wanna do. Seemed like initially josh and susan. Were pretty conservative. Couple loving family couple of kids. We learned that there was a lot of stress a lot of turmoil in their marriage. Control the money even though she was the breadwinner. Josh is very willing to spend money building himself. Fancy computer susan. Get that privilege pro printer show. It's sad to look at that. And no now what was actually going. Susan was tormented about how troubled marriage was. She'd been really happy he'd been a great husband and she said that he really changed. He became not affectionate taking picture of the back of about but they also had issues in the bedroom. Susan is this beautiful girl. Josh just was not interested in her sexually. It was just really weird. T chapter at arm's length. He wanted to kiss her anymore. He wouldn't touch and hold her hand. Josh susan's marriage reaches rock bottom in the summer of two thousand eight. Josh and susan are constantly fighting arguing. Front of the kids is exhibiting control. Said one time you were having a screaming fight and showed him pushed me back in those of you ever do that again but she never did susan now starting to think about. I've got to get out of this marriage. She went to see a divorce lawyer. One time for a free consultation at my advice and he told her to make a videotape of everything in your house. This is me. July twenty nine th two thousand eight covering all my bases making sure that if something happens to me or my family are all of us. That are assets are documented. And here's our safe at all also files financial information speakers. Five point one surround. Sound this and throw my dvd's there's a hole in that wall diamond necklace. My mom bought. Gee that's a family heirloom or thousands of dollars that i have assets. Everything works out and we're all happy and live happily ever after as much as possible after she would email me a lot and just said i want to do everything in my power has saved my marriage before. I walk away josh warrior. If you divorce me you'll never see the children so she stayed. Police ended up discovering the safety deposit box. That susan kept secretly from josh. That the bank where she worked in it they found a dvd spawns and there was a makeshift will and testament the last testament handwritten on one piece of paper both sides top to bottom side to side. There is no room to ride another word. She wrote about how bad the marriage had become. She talked about a million dollar life insurance policy. The josh had taken out on her and she told her boys she would never leave them. Jeevan goes as far as to say if i die biggest piece of evidence. It's her last words. There was no doubt that this document was authored by susan. The biggest mystery this case is. Why didn't police. Arrest josh powell. I was frustrated because they hadn't arrested him. I felt they had plenty of evidence to arrest him. Police have officially named joshua powell a person of interest in the disappearance of his wife. Susan the west valley city police department took a lot of heat for not from handcuffs on josh. There's a pile of circumstantial evidence there enough there to arrest him. Book commended gel and hold him accountable. Absolute vigorous bid we now. The district attorney's office would not file any charges. They burr very specific and told us that we needed to wait twelve months with nobody. Abc news reached out to the da. At the time who declined to respond to this claim and refused to comment on the case within days of susan's disappearance he had closed their bank accounts cashed out her retirement fund took the boys to puyallup people. We talked to say. They can't believe that joshua powell has empty house and left what is ground zero and the disappearance of his wife. They say it only casts doubt on a man. They're having an increasingly difficult time believing. I suddenly had this. This thought i should josh to confess. Jennifer volunteered with the police to wear a wire done done right now. It just indoor and joshua police. You took the boys camping in the middle of the night in. Utah's west desert. Please star search. Their detectives are scour walkie hillsides and abandoned mine tunnels or any. Signs of susan powell. The police for months and months would search these minds taking canine thousand nine at west valley police. Detective say they plan to survey as many as possible. The most intense part of this search is happening right at the bottom of this are swarming the high desert somebody that the best place to dispose of a body would be a mind. This is one of those abandoned mine. Shafts in which detectives went through. Nobody ever find it. It's like finding a needle in the haystack. Lot of questions still on answer to this point. There's a big part of you missing and you want to know the truth. But the family won't give up. There is still purple ribbons at their home stickers on car windows josh decides that he's going to take the boys up to his dad's house at washington to try to get away from the media circus of anything to say actually interest. Josh josh is steve. Powell takes control. He shields josh from the media and becomes his most ardent defender. I call it fort powell. Because it became a fortress. They had the windows blinds drawn. They kept the house dark inside when the media would knock. They open a crack and say no. They weren't talking to anybody high. I'm trying to find josh powell. They were just their own little country. Josh isolates himself from the world. He's not talking to police. He's not talking to media. He certainly not searching for his missing wife. I suddenly had this. This thought i should try and get josh to confess. Even josh's sister jennifer graves doesn't believe him so she goes to police and she volunteers to wear a wire and go inside her dad's house they were just about to have dinner and we went in and the boys were so excited to see us owner. I didn't know exactly how to force this confrontation with josh. Suddenly i just. I shoved josh into the bathroom. And at that point i was like drop all pretense. Just tell me where her body as we to come. Jennifer did a phenomenal job. is there and Rea take. I know what i done. I done any. I hope borrowing. He still wouldn't by he's still would not give me anything. I was so frustrated. Eventually steve kicked jennifer out of the residence calling her derogatory names yet. She's by your brother advice. Shown that way. I regret not getting richer fashion. But i don't regret going good morning america and joining style susan's mother and father judy susan's parents. From the moment. She was saying they were very involved with the press. Respect your son in law and grandchildren what. They quickly the tone changed. We made a conscious decision. The politeness was working so we basically called him out at. Josh is a desperate person. He has no valid explanation for where he was took hawks and family. They're putting the purple ribbons. There got the billboard outside the neighborhood all these things. I've are driving him crazy before eighteen months he sits in isolation. It doesn't talk to anybody about trying to get josh to talk. We put together a hong conway. What in the world is a hunkin wave. Thank you and he said you make these. You're going to get these huge signs and you stand on the really corners and get people to honk and wave to show their support. Thank you it can cause anxiety and disruption in your suspects mind. People started to do things as the stress tends to build. They picked a busy street near store that they knew stephen. Josh shaw app and chuck and judy others. Were out there with signs and everything and there were television cameras. They're not gonna stop looking for her no matter how long it takes. They had these shirts with susan's face. I think it said have you seen him. They had big posters and they were waving balloons and any now flyers two cars and let five steve pull by the next thing. I know he's stomping over towards me. You can't do this. This is a store that i shop out the only places where they passed out fliers about susan. The only place where they've put up billboards the only place the duct tape flyers to light post. Is you coming here hoping to find helping his house. You're standing at our neighborhood. Market helping to fight susan job and extraordinary personal and very public confrontation. That erupted in the middle of the search. For susan powell. Several family members were clashing in front of the cameras in her. The court and they're going to do this. Which other stores are you doing this at chuck. That was ugly. It was weird. It was really contentious is waiting for the cops to come in. How one of them away. Come out against my family and josh shota midway into this confrontational the street corner and he had the boys in the van with him. Chuck cock excuses. My sons as pawns in the media to drive whatever message he is trying to drive. That's all right. I get a call from josh. We were telling josh. How are you going to do this interview or not. And and he finally he finally said yes. He's still love her yeah. He seemed very distant. When i spoke to him he had a hollow. Look and stare. That i wonder. Does he trying to intimidate me. Josh did you kill your wife. Then there was stephen wanting to be interviewed and he ends up. Revealing was the biggest bombshell. There were just sexual things going on between us. This is your daughter in law. We were watching this on tv and our jaws just dropped. Don't crawl in the dirt boys. Everything works out. And we're all happy happily ever after as much as possible. And i was like where is she you know. And he was like. I don't know i instantly set to my soul. For what has he done very injury drug. Even his own sister didn't believe josh into the bathroom. And at that point. I was like drop all three tenths. Just tell me where her body is. Susan had often referred to her father-in-law is creepy. But i don't have any idea how cre- being the man truly was. I can love you in the sea. I always made during that interview with. Charlie has more more mike cycle. Math accused ray rail places to hide slams the door interface. I lost this is brighton. No fodder dots. How the story Susan powell was a young beautiful mother of two adorable children. She just one night vanished. Detectives have named josh powell person of interest in the case. He did some local news. Some ambush style interviews where they would ask him something on the fly and camping with the boy. Go get my boys but he never really sat down and talked about what happened. They'll never forget the first time that i met him. I shook his hand and a children's like raced up through my spine. I just shook the hand of a killer. Are we rolling. Why talk now. Oh man. I wanted to come out and say say something people who know me know that i'm a good. Dowd was a good husband. Provided for them. Susan also contributed nothing. He told me during that interview convinced me that he was not part of what happened to her and why she disappeared. I know that you've told police that you were camping. In broad two year old and your four year old camping is that where you were. I'm not gonna talk about anything that my attorney is specifically told me not to. Why not just answer where you were. When she disappeared a was there and his father really wanted to be interviewed. Which was odd and i really no desire to interview steven at that time zero and i just thought this is such a waste of time this pointless. You think she ran away with another man was another man i. I don't think josh was in the room for that part of the interview. And before you know it he ends up. Revealing the biggest bombshell out of all the interviews. That i've had done out of the whole case. What makes you think that she would leave. Leave her kids her two young sons and run away with another man. Susan was Very very sexual with me. She was very flirtatious. Just she did it i did. I mean we interacted in a lot of sexual ways. Because susan enjoys doing that. I enjoy why. Are you telling everyone that that's not to your benefit. But somehow in my dad's own twisted mind. He thought that that was the greatest strategy to keep the dogs off josh or something. I don't know a one day. We were at an animal. I was holding brayden in my arms. And i had my hands like this. The part i remember is that susan came over to take him from the and instead of just reaching out and grabbing and she pressed her breasts against my hands tightly and she wouldn't let my hands out and that's nice it was a coal days so it was a nice warm feeling. Can you break betty love to talk about it. Josh and susan early in their marriage move into see fouls home. Susan had often referred to her father-in-law as creepy. But she. i don't think had any idea how creepy the man truly was during this period of time. Steve powell is constantly filming susan. This is a man who is collecting video for his own perverse gratification. Because steve powell is a voyeur. He wrote a number of songs about susan. Stephen powell even recorded them and posted them on his website. I can love you in a c. He had a pseudonym he used steve. Sean trae while charleston susan. We're living with my dad. There was a point where she was alone in the car with my dad for a short time while josh was in the house and my dad actually hit on her. He put his camera in the bag on the center console and left it recording and so the audio of this conversation is captured before last year and a half robot. Just for example. We're sitting on the couch. It just felt like you were very. I mean i was extremely aroused. I think you were sublet. At least i thought it audio was an opportunity to hear susan in her own voice telling steve in no uncertain terms. She was not interested. This i've realized came over to kiss me. She was extremely upset about that and disturbed but even more disturbs win. Josh said that that's his dad. I mean he was obsessed with susan. He was absolutely obsessed and and he wanted to talk about it for me. This was the headline. And it also put a target on stevens pass and maybe he had something to do with. The focus was less on josh and it shifted street to josh's father because it was so creepy that was my big takeaway. Police raided the home of her husband and father in law seizing. Several computers and sealed boxes after disturbing allegations made by both of them right here on. Am yesterday susan. Powell disappeared from her home near salt lake city on december. Six two thousand nine since then no word nothing. They have this entire campaign of their own and it was to make susan look bad. That was to make her look like she was promiscuous like she was looking to leave the marriage and abandon her. Children is in cots kept a diary secret diary. Let's stay focused on the journals. Okay because i think that's very interesting. I believe that. Susan heavily as on with somebody who disappeared the same week she she was very open sexually and when i read her journals. It's clear that most of the male the relationship she got into with males ones that she initiated basically josh and steven on their own stupidity. Or tell talon. Hey this is the holy grail. This is telling us where. Susan is telling us how susan acted so that gave us the nexus through the judicial system to get into the house. Josh moved in with his father shortly after his wife's disappearance he took some things from his utah home including susan's germs. Susan powell's diaries have taken center stage. According to the search warrant left at the pows home. Police came looking for seven very specific. Diaries all written by susan diaries that her husband insist will help explain her disappearance. They went through everything in the house. Including all of steve's you know files journals computers they also find see powles collection of voyeur videos. Steve powell is doing things like sliding mirrors under the bathroom door attempting to get images of susan. Well she's undressing underwear against play face just pillinger center. Stephen neri his videos to himself as he's shooting video of her dirty underwear even pow would save things of susan's she'd throw away in a bathroom. Garbage things. like cotton swabs wack strips tampons. He would mark each one of them likes for specific storage and his walk in closet. There was a filing cabinet that was law and once we got into that kind of like unwanted treasure that we found police say inside powell's bedroom they found thousands of images of mostly young girls. Many naked being videotaped without their knowledge. Prosecutors say two former neighbors sisters just seven and twelve or repeatedly videotaped while bathing. Police said powell shot from his bedroom window into the neighbor's bathroom window using telephoto lens. They've looked at steve powell susan's disappearance and ruled him out. But it's obviously of great concern to detectives. They're scouring throwing material they take out a steep al's home when they see underage neighbor. Girls undressed on st paul's. Tate's powell entered a plea of not guilty to fourteen counts of voyeurism and one count of child pornography. Stephen powell was eventually convicted and sentenced to five years in prison for possession of child pornography because of all the things that the police encountered in the search of the steven powell home it became apparent. Eventually these boys weren't imminent risk of harm. The best part that came out of the search warrant was steve's house was child. Family services of washington stepped in and shared with us that they would take custody of the children. The boys ages four and six were taken last night by the state and now susan's father is fighting to keep them with him. They were going to be placed relative placement with us so we were essentially foster parents charleston. My sons are safe with me. They're safe in my home safe with my family. I think josh's main fear probably was that once charlie start talking to their grandparents. The started with get out. They were saying things like our mommy. Eve went with us for the trip. Didn't come back. We can only see your mom again if we go camping again. Brayden do the picture of A minivan with stick people inside. Who's there so that's that's me who's out. That's charlie who's at daddy and he said and he volunteered mommy's in the trump. We wanted to interview them. So i wrote the search warrant for that china. Has anybody talked to you about your mom. He during that interview. It's very clear that charlie has been coached. His answers are extremely evasive camping. I only keep the as the only thing we got all that time. Was that at one point. He said that she went camping. And but she didn't come home with them and then he kind of clammed up after that. One thing to do on this on this naming naming now and barry while the cox were fighting for custody of the kids and had temporary custody of the boys they were still essentially wards of the state washington state had control over these children and the cox's were horrified foster care so the boys are living with grandma and grandpa and josh is getting supervised visitation with the boys the visitation. I understood to be taking place at a secure third party facility but in short order josh take steps to rent his own house and he begins pushing the social workers asking them if they can move visitation to this new house that he's rented because it's nasty house should have the same concerns. I think the boys were ones originally told me. Hey we got to go to daddy's house or something and and i went. Oh really. I was concerned about that. They were very excited. They were thrilled about the new house and they. They were thrilled about the yard at the new house. I am in their best interest as their father that i should be raising them. Through december into early january. He was confident that his reunification motion was going to be granted. Custody of your kids. Well that was doomsday. For josh powell. This story you can't write in hollywood script. No one thought in a million years. That's how the story did care to seniors. When josh was fighting for custody of charlie and brave it wasn't about being a father it was about beating the cox's since the kids seemed like typical kids to a certain extent but they were under going a lot of storms. Josh went into that. Hearing on february i think he used Were pretty positive. That josh was the one that killed susan. I wanted to keep those boys. How home as long as possible. I was gone to west valley on. Hey guys we need something pierce county. Authorities and investigators in utah. Share the common goal of protecting the boys. So the west valley police in utah passed along previously unreleased evidence recovered from the pows home when i pushed west valley and they sent us the disc with the cartoon and says stores Images the west valley city police department. Utah had found images on a computer taken out of the house and sarah circle way back in december of two thousand nine. That were of great concern. They were characters from popular. Nickelodeon shows engaged in sexual acts. Acts of incest. The evidence was allegedly taken from josh powell's utah home by investigators. They raised very serious questions about joshua's ability to be a safe perrin for the boys see denies ever look at any kiddie porn. He denies any knowledge about any of these images that purportedly taken off his computers illegally images. No i asked mr wrong. He saw nothing on there that he believed would be in violation of the law. Bad taste i'll give you that he was describing. And that's when the judge ruled that the boys would stay with kocsis long enough that judge katherine nelson is ordering josh powell to now undergo a psycho sexual evaluation. This is an exam where they measure aber arousal. So you can't lie is physically. The arousal will show. If if here into things that might be illegal. He had to take psycho-sexual valuation which is one thing that i know wouldn't pass but it included polygraph. And that means that josh is going to have to do what he's avoided doing from the very first days after citizen does appear which is take a lie detector test. He'd been able to get away with murder so to speak for a long time polygraph. I think he really afraid of. He didn't wanna answer all these questions about citizens missing. He truly had gone down in flames from being pretty sure that he was going to get his kids back. I think the era was taken out of them. He looked bad. You just saw his welfare finish. He looked more more like a psychopath. Run out of places to hide and who've run out of options and it was tearing him down as a person. The custody hearing between chuck and josh essentially was put on pause that was on february. First we know then. That josh spent the next four days preparing. We know that transferred from of his finances. He gathered some of the boys. Things and toys took them to so much and army and goodwill he bought five gallon gas cans went and film gas. I said look. I am afraid. Josh's backed into a corner with the psycho sexual and the polygraph. He knows where he's going to be those from so the morning sunday finish chuck had gone to church. I knew they were going for their visit and they were making it clear to my wife and myself. We don't want to see him today. We don't wanna go. I picked up the boys. They were waiting with their by. I expected to return the boys in about four and a half hours and things go very wrong. prepares county. Sheriff believes one is happening if nothing short of your this is story. You can't write in hollywood script. No rethought a million years. That's how the story would have been talking about a tragedy The morning of sunday february fifth was with griffin hall arrived at the rental house parked out front and as children do trillion. Brayden got out of their car seats. They rushed to the front door. Which is what they always did. I was one or two steps back of them. The kids just rushed in. I saw josh for just one second. His is hot mind and he had a in is she. Looks straight in the face slams. The door their face and locks. I knocked and i knocked and rang the doorbell and started yelling at josh. Let me and. I heard him say charlie. I've got a big surprise for you and immediately. She smelled gasoline and she knew it was an emergency situation to take per quarter to get something really weird happen i hit. I need help. By the way he looked drive off in the door everybody would be after onto emergency life. Threatening situations first the first available deputy. He wants court on one thing. He kicks back and kilter previously idea. Docu two thousand twelve super bowl. Sunday went to church. I came home super bowl sunday. I remember watching the super bowl that day and seeing the reports. Come in good afternoon everyone. I'm john discepolo. You're interrupting your programming for some breaking news. And i got a call from my neighbor. And he said change the channel. I was actually in indianapolis. The patriots were playing the giants super bowl. Giants ten nine at halftime. And i was there with my family and it was halftime and madonna was about to take center stage as madonna takes the stage to perform vote. Abbes in the stadium. Concourse twin to absorb the tech. She just received taxed pops up on my phone explosion at the home. Of josh powell. I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it. I thought i am going to get help from the neighbors. They'll be able to help me get the boys out. So i went screaming to the neighbors and said there's two children and their two children. And eric i said oh my god i thought like natural gas or something and they said they found three bodies. There's a fire exploded. And we're hearing that josh and charlie and brayden or inside this this can't be and i thought no i can't we realized heard something called susan's father i said chuck is it. True up is it true. Is it true said yes. I didn't even say goodbye. Just hung up. The phone started crying. And i was looking at a house with steel coming out of it and fires. And he talked to his sergeant. Whatever said yeah. They're there and honestly. I wasn't surprised and the actions that he made after she went missing. I never underestimated him on then to find out the details just breaks your heart at pierce county. Medical examiner says both boys had chopping wounds on their heads and necks. But that's not what killed them. The cause of death for all three was carbon monoxide poisoning to five gallons of gas and one was used in the room where the boys were killed. Roy found the hatchet of boys and one of the gas cans and then after he had incapacitated them he arranged them on the floor next to each other and poured gasoline on and around and around the house and then he said on a guess can lit a match and they were still alive when the fire started and they died of smoke inhalation and there was also gasoline in their lungs. Police say there's clear evidence. Josh planned out this house explosion and meant to kill himself and his children the morning of the fifth. He said a couple of text messages and voice meals to people essentially saying goodbye. His sister elena found one when it was too late to to intervene after the explosion. I think he said hello. This is josh allen and not able to go on anymore. I'm sorry to everyone. I heard when you heard the audio recording. What did you think what did you make of that. I thought he had lost all hope to find out that you know. He used the apps first and find out that he said to them. You know i've surprised for you any little bit of doubt that anyone could possibly have josh killed. Susan had to gone out the window the fact that he could have done that to his kids. This wasn't tragic is deeply wrong. This was evil. You do not kill little kids. Police are convinced. The explosion and fire that destroyed josh powell's home is a murder suicide. I don't know anything else i could have done. And they're still dead. My daughter still missing and now the children did. I had them safe. They were in my care. There were gone. I was frustrated with the child. Protective service agency a. Why would they put this single woman in charge of these voice as center into the lions. Dan have the right to grow. The cox. family is determined to hold the state accountable and make them pay for the deaths of their grandchildren. Best part. Is you look at photos of josh. And susan charlie and you think about what could have been those boys district and then got the chance we've been robbed of three precious lives and it's just unthinkable that the same person did it a white kids. Why the base. Absolutely no sense in my worst nightmare had just happened but i went from praying that somehow susan was alive to pray now but she was dead so that she agreed her boys in heaven outside the fenced off the scene strangers. Visit the memorial. That has risen flowers balloons and stuffed animals. Offered in memory of charlie and braden powell fly would he does her so much to get custody of the boys only to monitor them. One of the possibilities. He destroyed the evidence. Those boys were starting to talk and by destroying the evidence basically he committed murder on. Its two boys. It shows how much of a monster he really was. And it shows how many people drop the ball in this case. I was frustrated with the child protective services agency. Why would they put this single women in charge of these boys and send her into the lion's den no sense to me. I wanted to get the kids. No matter what i wanted to get. The kids could have gotten to the door. I would have. She did what she could. She did everything right. Those no blame on her at all. Anybody puts any blame on her is misdirected. The cox's have filed a lawsuit against the state of washington on behalf of brandon and charlie wrongful death lawsuit and their position is that the state of washington put josh's parental rights before the welfare of these boys. The cox family lawsuit didn't include elizabeth griffin hall or any other individuals as defendants. The fact is she. She was not the one that made the decision for this to be in the home so to certain extent. She's like she's alive. And she's i think a victim noise to they filed this lawsuit thirty five million dollars for brayden fifty million dollars for charlie five million dollars for each minute that these boys suffered at the hands of their father before they're ultimately blown up in josh's rental house. Please be seated morning buddy. You have a civil case against the state that started in february was disrupted because of covid nineteen. Now give your attention to mr buck as he presents. The plaintiffs spinal argument is out of the states failed to live up to their own. Primary directive of assuring the safety of the children that this tragedy was born was the place that had the least protection josh powell's home what about the level of risk then the state learned of of the boys statements. It learned of this incest images. It learned that he was going to have to undergo sexual evaluation polygraph if the state had followed its policies its its guidelines. Commonsense investigated had visitations. Where it was supposed to have them. None this would have happened. Thank you very much ladies and gentlemen of the jury. This'll be the only and final time that you hear from the state in this matter. The state pick this very serious. The did their job. they followed their policies. Yes the fact. That susan powell was missing was known but after more than two years after her disappearance. Still no arrest. No charges against josh powell. It actually takes facts and proof to remove a child from their parent to keep them out of the home. The guys visitation shows number one preferred location is at a parent whole. That's why transition to a home. It occurs the goal in these types of cases is always family reunification. I'm going to submit to you that. Mr powell is the sole cause of the murder of his sons. There was not due to any negligence by the state of washington. It was mr powell who did this the truth. The fact of the matter is they're the only ones who could have protected the children that point. They're the ones who responsibility as juries. Please be seated. Has the jury reached a verdict. Mountain was the state of washington negligent. Answer yes what do you find. Plenty of charles powell's total amount of damages fifty seven million five hundred thousand dollars brayden pals total amount of damages fifty seven million five hundred thousand dollars for eight years. The family has been trying to find justice and it took us a long time and we took a long hiatus with the pandemic today. Justices been made it out. What i intend to do is use the award to try and help other people in and that so that we can save more children. Jury members told abc news. They didn't believe any one individual child protective services was responsible for what happened. They blame a systematic failure for the tragedy. It just came down to us. You cannot reunification. Do you know as your goal at the expense of child safety and lawsuits change things brown versus board of education roe v. Wade i mean that's how things change so two thousand twenty reached out to several agencies in both states and they declined to comment or refers to other departments in the end. We were unable to get an answer to our question. Questions could the actions of these agencies or their inactions have contributed to the murders of brayden. And charlie got to the point. Where you had josh getting kids into that house and blowing it up. I think that it is just one of those cases that will always kind of have a place in. Utah's consciousness and i think a big part of that is. We still don't know what happened. We still don't know where sees powell is. Does everyone believe that he harmed his wife. The answer is yes. That's what everyone believes. But would you believe which could prove or two different things. Joshua's actions are deaf way an admission of guilt. Just going to divorce him. If he can't have her nobody will. So he kidnaps susan and most likely murders her disposes of her body where nobody knows last shoot and heard from was her friend. You're gonna was there at the house and josh who never made pancakes for dinner. People think he poisoned her of course because he made them separate. She felt sick and sleepy. Giovanna that she's never heard from again. I know their ten thousand abandoned mines in utah. That's a lot of places where you can dump a body. There are so many theories. I don't know which one it is. But i can t susan cox. Powell did not leave that hum willingly at midnight. Go camping. This was a family but was not known to the west valley city. Utah police department. The never been called to the house but in other ways josh was just a classic abuser he was controlling. My heart. absolutely breaks for chuck. And judy cox think about with. This couple has gone through. They lost their daughter both of their grandbabies horrifically butchered and the only three people could shed any light on this or dead. Her story will continue to live on and inspire others to move in the right direction to move towards good relationships and get out of bad situations abusive situations.
Ep. 11: Operation Tsunami
"This podcast discusses domestic violence criminal behavior. Murder and adult themes while not explicit. Listener discretion is advised. Ellis Maxwell seems cautious. Sitting in a studio it KSL the radio station where I work talking about the Susan Powell investigation. I've just asked Ellis about the wiretap west valley police set up on Josh and Steve Powell phones in two thousand and eleven what can you tell me about that? Good question. Nelson. I we've spent hours discussing the case over the past year. We've come to know a bit about one another. I'd like to think we've developed a report he's been retired from the police force for two and a half years by the time of this conversation, and is to my years very candid sitting here, you know, meeting with you answering your questions and Sharon some insight. It actually been an official for me. And it's helped me kind of get through my own struggles from doing it. Because as it's always going to be they're never going to go away. But the wiretap is where else draws the line. He's not going to reveal inside information of police tactics. I come at else again from a different angle asking a more general question. What do you have to show a judge in order to get a wiretap to get a wiretap is very difficult in? Yes, you have to past every every other investigative tactic. But that was the stage. We were in the investigation. We had pretty much wrapped up everything that we could traditionally and now we were kind of going to non traditional direction, and we had to be creative and try to get Justice disclose. And and give us some information. This concept of exhaustion trying everything else possible before resorting to a wiretap is an important legal hurdle. Police can't just listen to phone calls without first proving they've given traditional tactics every opportunity to work. There's just nothing left. Basically at the end of the day. The agency has done EV. Everything that they can do and they still have hit a brick wall. They still don't have the evidence witness confession all of those things. And so you've got identify. Why that wiretap is going to be successful in clearly Josh, and Steve and Josh brother, Michael, they all communicated frequently and you know, so. Yeah. This is cold episode eleven operation soon. Nami I'm Dave collie before we get to far I need to make something very clear in this episode. I'm going into detail on some unconventional tactics. Police used during the later stages of the Powell investigation much of this information has never been disclosed. In our interviews Ellis. Maxwell refused to go into specifics about what I've come to learn was a wide ranging plan conceived during the summer of two thousand eleven code-named operations who NAMI the intricacies. I've pieced together come from a series of internal police planning documents that I obtained without the knowledge or approval of Ellis were any of the other law enforcement officers involved in this case. I'm going to be careful and selective in what I share as full disclosure of the methods and tactics could run the risk of doing real harm to future investigations. I ever wonder what it's like to face a three hundred fifty pound lineman who wants to Spanish you into the ground. I don't know what that feels like Scott Mitchell here, I want to tell you about my podcast helmets off. Why talk about the pressures of being an NFL quarterback some of the other pressures pro athletes face when the helmet is off. It's a podcast and you can get it free on Google play, apple podcasts and KSL sports dot com. Let's to Sunday December sixth of two thousand and nine the last day. Anyone saw Susan Powell alive? The winter sun had just set darkness descended on the Salt Lake valley. Josh Powell was making plans Susan his wife had gone down for a nap after eating a meal, Josh had prepared her neighbor Giovane Owings sat in the living room of the Powell family's home working to unravel a nod ball of yarn Josh wanted Giovanna gone, and he came in. And he said that he was gonna go sledding, and I was really concentrating on untangling yarn. So I didn't get his gentle hint. There was probably time for me to go home. Josh grabbed his work issued laptop just before five thirty PM. He opened Internet Explorer and went to AccuWeather dot com. Then KSL dot com and pulled up the forecast, it showed a huge winter storm was bearing down. He quickly glanced at some weather and traffic webcams from around Utah. He flipped over to Google and typed the words easily Utah map. The top hit was a page on Illeana Vada at city data dot com. He quipped that link and his browser cashed three thumbnail images, showing street, aerial and topographic map views of ily next. He searched the phrase sledding to willa Utah. He started putting the boys coats on them and their shoes on them minutes later, he shooed Giovanna out of the house. So I went out got in my car. He put the boys in the van and while I was just doing my seatbelt up getting situated in the boys drove off in the van. And then I just went on Giovanna didn't see Josh Susan again that night. She's still not sure where he went with the boys or how Susan ended up out of the house from everybody else's accounts. I think that he came home and he got season and. Than left with her and the boys and some camping equipment and heaven only knows where he went after that. I wish I did that make my life a little bit easier. Make everybody's life a whole lot easier. If we could put this to rest, west valley city police took Joshua's work laptop two days later, while serving their first search warrant at the Sarah circle house, but it took months for the cash internet files revealing those searches to come to light they were buried among more than five and a half terabytes of information recovered from Josh's devices. The fact he had searched for information about ille- just before leaving the house on the day. Susan was last seen alive seemed significant. So let's talk about easily. Ille- came to being in the eighteen seventies. As little more than a stage. Stop on the old pony express. Route a few decades later prospectors learned the surrounding mountains were rich and copper gold and silver mining boom erupted bringing in the railroad. So began a cycle of boom and bust that played out over the next century today serves as the intersection of three US highways. Six fifty and ninety three it sits roughly midway between Las Vegas and west Wendover, not too far from the Utah, Nevada State line and just a ways north and west of great basin national park. It's kind of in the middle of nowhere, but barely within range of Josh Powell's possible desert travels during the span of time that Susan disappeared. Records show west valley's intelligence analysts uncovered the first clues about ille- relatively early in may of two thousand and ten but it wasn't until July of two thousand and eleven year and a half after Susan's disappearance that they pieced together the full picture they came to understand that Josh done more than just look at maps, traffic cameras and weather forecasts for easily in the days leading up to Susan's disappearance. He had pulled up listings for the motel six and Ramada inn. There we could not ignore it came directly off Ajaj computers, but Ellis didn't want to run out and start a search around ille- right away. At that point the bulk of the investigation was focused on Washington state. Ironically, the time that we discovered that information kind of fell, you know, within line of the operations that we were doing in Washington. So it. Make sense to rush out there and do it within that week or two when we discovered that information on easily it made more sense to kind of coordinate that with our operations in Washington. That's as close as LS ever came to telling me about soon, NAMI, here's what I've learned about those operations from the documents police had reached a dead end in the investigation nothing. They tried to get Josh to slip up or speak out had worked. So they started brainstorming how to get him talking privately while they listened in on his conversations one prong of that plan included going public with a search around easily. Yes, we want to Josh to see this on the news. You know, SU he had to say about it and see if it would give us some direction. Of course, Josh wasn't going to talk to police about it. He would probably only share with his family in order for that plan to work police needed a. Wiretap? So they could monitor Josh's phone calls Utah district court Judge Judith Atherton approved the wiretap request on August ninth. Everything associated with the wiretap warrant was sealed. At that time. It remains sealed to this day. Atherton who has since retired did not respond to a request for an interview for this podcast? Police record show detective started listening to Josh and Steve's phone calls on August sixteenth two days later. They announced plans for a surge of abandoned mines around healing Uva. This was the launch of soon. Nami. Going public with the mind. Search was a conspicuous shift in strategy. Remember, all of the other mind searches up to that point had happened behind a veil of secrecy was the hope that maybe that media coverage would cause him to say something that you guys might be able to pick up through other channels. Being go. In law enforcement lingo, this tactic is referred to as tickling the wire in this valley neighborhood, friends, close to Susan Powell are now hopeful that the answers. Debbie, kabul. Runs a daycare whether Powell kids spent much of their time like many others. She's just hearing that west of police are following up on what could be a major in the case in Illeana Vada. I really really really would like to know where she is what happened to her. And I bought her boys to grow up and know where their mommies and what happened to her. They deserve that continues the search for Susan alive. West valley's press release announcing that you described it as a follow up on a possible lead in the case is already explained that was true. But to sweeten the pot. Police also said the media would have a chance to shoot photos and video under certain conditions for Jennifer graves. Josh pal sister the past year and a half have been frustrating. She says she has no idea. What news will come tomorrow must be something, you know, something's going on. So I is eager is anybody to figure out what it is newsroom. Managers in Salt Lake City were skeptical. They weren't quite sure just how much credence to give this invitation especially because west valley refused to give out any more. Details ahead of time even off the record. The phrasing of the press. Release prompted speculation though, the police might have learned the location of Susan's body. Which of course, they hadn't. But the only way for the news crews to find out was to make the trip at this point. We just want answers, and we just want to know what happened those answers could be on the way with word that west valley. Police now have a credible lead. In the case. Some of Susan's friends are now eager to hear what they have to say. And operational planning documents showed police were more than a little worried. The media wouldn't take the bait. But come on the possibility of a break in the Powell story was way too big to ignore. No one wanted to sit out that opportunity. We are here to follow up on investigative information. That has led us to this area indirect relationship to the Susan policy person vestige is that what what are you here for detectives have have made a preemptive drive out here to to see what it was that. We that. We may be looking at the information that detectives have indicated has led them to this area. And it's something that they felt strongly enough that we needed to follow up on and to further investigate. That is the reason why we are here today was expecting more was definitely expecting more. I was just sitting there crying while. I was watching it the team in Nevada took the reporters around to look at some dusty holes in the ground. This is one of the mineshafts that cruiser searching today, and they say this one is clearly been breached, you can tell by the fencing that has been bent and moved out of the way. Now, this just may look like a harmless tunnel looks very stable, but crews say it is very unstable there unseen dangers, and they can go through and fall down hundreds of feet, but the same time another west valley team was in Washington. Conducting is on surveillance of Josh. And steve. A third team back in Utah manned the wire room from six AM to midnight. They waited for Josh to see the news coverage to pick up his phone and to call his dad if that was the place that he visited and maybe just bows of Susan clearly he's going to mention that. He clearly who'd get nervous. You know, his mannerisms changes a lot of things there that would have been beneficial. The first day of the search focused on mine openings and gravel pits. A few miles west of town below a place called squawk peak. The news crews watched as the west valley, cops bureau of land management staff and white pine county sheriff's deputies used spotlights to peer into the holes. It all looked very familiar and reasonable to the two abandoned mine experts from the Utah department of natural resources who basically taught west valley police how to do this work. I know they look down that way we weren't involved in that because that's Nevada. But that's still is right on the periphery of where possible to look. So that's why we concentrated in these areas and also high concentrations of open minds in this areas. Remember, Louis Amit, and Tony guy egos had spent weeks in early two thousand and ten practically living in the west desert with detectives. But Lewis said over time he and Tony hit stepped away from helping with the mind searches in person. They didn't have any inside information about this new search you kind of had to put some distance between because you still talk about it. And then like, you couldn't just call up the text and say, hey, what's happening because you know, there's still involved in investigation, and at that point they wouldn't be able to tell you anything anyway. But it was always in the back of your mind. Both men had been left with a sense of incompletion a job undone. I followed some of the headlines things after but little bit of distance. But I was still curious and still interested in some sort of resolution so with headlines about the search or when Josh Powell away and all those things I've still sort of following that Tony though worried what all that publicity might lead to. Yeah. I remember the headlines about the Nevada searches and so on and then I remember the public search groups, and you know, you sort of like, well, that's a great thing. But we went out with the detectives, and we checked out all the sites we could access based on their criteria. Sort of like you wanted say, well, you don't need to look there anymore. Look somewhere else where we weren't able to spend time. But then again, you really even didn't want to encourage people to go into these mine openings that. We're really not not safe, and you didn't want someone being hurt while they're out searching for some and could be families or kids whoever that. So it was good that they were wanting to help. But it really didn't wanna courage people to go poking around the mine opening it has very dangerous not a safe thing. West valley. Police didn't find anything in ily that first day. Reporters turned on the department's spokesman sergeant Mike Powell no relation when he delivered. The news. We expected an announcement a break in the case of missing Utah. Mom, Susan Powell was family city. Police held a press conference hundreds of miles from Salt Lake in Illeana Vada. But no announcement came information is very limited that I'm able to disseminate to the public as you are very well aware sergeant Mike Powell says new information led them to ille-, but he wouldn't give any details after dodging questions about specifics sergeant pal invited the media to show and tell of the rugged hills above sleeping, Nevada town. But what have connected these mine shafts with Susan Powell, Australia reporters kept the questions coming in sergeant pal eventually issued a statement saying a prior search warrant had led them to eat. But that's about as much as he would say he says the biggest purpose of inviting the media to easily was to shine the public spotlight back on the case. This is also brought to to life. The fact that there has been some downtime significant downtime in media coverage on this case. And obviously this point that is changed. And really one of our biggest invest assets is the public is a whole will bring a flood of music. So that I guess I can be grateful for that Ellis told me he gets why the media and the public were so irritated at that point. I know the media really sought that it was a ruse. And they were I think they were upset, but it was a legit lead to. Information we discovered that was directly from Joshua's computer, and something that we had to follow up on of course, west valley. Police couldn't and didn't say word about the wiretap. They obviously couldn't say there was a larger plan in motion. The next day the searchers headed south about twenty miles to the historic ward mining district. They checked some of the extensive workings in that area. And again came up empty Jannine. Keith we have a pair of mysteries tonight. One is what exactly happened to Susan pal? The other is what exactly was the purpose behind the high profile search in Illeana Vada, the city's mayor says he's confident and police investigators and that the case will eventually be solved they held another news conference. Looks like we're going to get done and finish with. What are our goals were from the beginning? But as any new leads that were generated at this point. I don't have you answered that Josh did see the news coverage, and he seem. Seems unimpressed. Here's what he told KSL that day. It just didn't seem like they said anything on that kind of what went through my mind. I actually thought that they were going to be looking in hotels apartment, you know, things like that. That's what I was hoping they'd be looking for for people. Brinkley zoos, and that was an interesting thing for Josh to say given police knew he had looked at motel listings in ily publicly. Josh didn't seem the least bit nervous. On the wiretap police intercepted a call in which Josh said law enforcement was wasting its time in early quote. That's for damn sure clearly did the search, and we didn't discover anything and Josh's behavior in disaster to mannerisms and his discussions didn't support that he was concerned at all. As west valley. Police were getting their wiretap that August Josh was also in court asking for a protective order against his in-laws bad blood between Josh and the Cox's head kept growing ever more sour like spoilt milk left out in the sun. Though, they lived just four miles apart Josh reviews to allow Susan's parents to ever see their grandson's it decided because we were treating him and his family so bad that we were not allowed to see the boys anymore. Public place. They can certainly see grandma grandpa one day. Chuck and Judy Cox were leaving lows after buying stuff for their yard when someone stopped them in the parking lot and told them, Josh, Charlie and Brayden where at that very moment inside the store, so Chuck and Judy turned around and went back into lows. We saw over there. And the kids saw us come running towards, grandma and grandpa like oh, wow. Oh, yeah. He was terrible. We, you know, picking on him and everything because we were in his store his space. Josh wasn't gonna stand for this Chuck for his part tried to remain calm. The police oftentimes in others has why don't you just want to grab him by the shirt and just like shake him kill me where my daughter is. We have I'd love to do that. But then he would have a case of assault against me. And it just and he's not going to say anything anyway. So why why give them that satisfaction in his court filing? Josh accused the Cox's of stocking. Both he and the boys here's how he described. They're running at Lowe's. Cox asked can't we hug our grandchildren now, and I responded, no, you may not. Goodbye. Chuck Cox mouth the words, you're dead. And they refused to leave us alone for several minutes, the encounter is Josh recalled it then turned even more. Sinister. Cox had cornered me and my children between a stack of wood where we were building children's toys in Iraq. I feared he would attack and try to kill me because he believes I'm responsible for my wife's disappearance. Now. No matter how much Chuck disliked. Josh he was not about to murder him in front of the boys and everyone else in the middle of a busy hardware store. Josh went on to call. The Cox is legal strangers to Charlie and Brayden and said their behavior caused bullies to pick on the boys. He also said he expected Chuck to escalate his campaign of hatred and violence until Susan returned. The story. No matter how puffed up with high personally was enough for judge to grant Josh a temporary restraining order. You can write anything. You want down for judge is good for about seven to ten days or something then you have a hearing. But this was a game to could play. Chuck new Josh and Steve still had his daughter's childhood journals secretly police in courage to him to seek his own restraining order against the Powell's to keep them. From publishing those volumes. As Steve had suggested he might do on national television a month earlier. West valley. Police figured the threat of an injunction would get Josh institute talking. It was just another way of tickling the wire. So on Saturday, August twentieth of two thousand eleven the same day police were peering into minds outside of Nevada. Chuck held a honk and wave event for Susan was assisted. And the best place to that hog away. And I didn't understand exactly why. That I was. Helped to discover where that was by the police, I they gave me a condom oh, getting warmer getting colder type approach to where. I should may be set up internal police documents revealed this was yet another piece of soon. Nami called remember me Chuck set up with pictures of Susan and purple balloons near the intersection of one seventy six street east and Meridian in south hill, just outside a Fred Meyer, grocery store around the corner from the Powell family home. He hadn't been there for long before. Steve happened to drive by police through their prior surveillance work had figured out where and when Josh and Steve liked to shop than to see Steve pull up to the drive through. I get it. And he came over here. This is so I'm the bait that's fine. With me. You know, I'm willing to help just told me whether you to do done it. But, you know, TV news cameras rolled as Steve confronted Chuck. It turned into a shouting match with Steve accusing Chuck of violating the temporary restraining order. Chuck played his role to perfection. I knew what words I needed at Steve and him to say that he had the journals say that they will implode, and I need to give the please reason give judge that they needed to get journals back Chuck warned, Steve he'd better not try to publish Susan's journals. That's what he made this charge of ahead. Abused by Susan as a child and he had proof in the journals. I said you should have journals number one, I have read them. And I don't think you should have read them, and you certainly have no right to publish them. 'cause I'd already been down that road. So I challenged him. He said, well, I can prove it I said, well, if you publish them we will take legal action Josh showed up at the honking wave soon afterward through tears. He told reporters Chuck was trying to so discord. One Utah TV station FOX thirteen stood alongside the Seattle reporters as they interviewed. Josh that day, I've learned from never before revealed police planning documents the detectives had reached an agreement with FOX thirteen making the station part of the Sunni plan, west valley fed inside information to the station, hoping reporter would have a chance to confront Josh. Or Steve with it in exchange FOX thirteen agreed to post any videos with Josh or Steve online in their raw unedited form that would allow police to obtain the footage and added to their evidence FOX thirteen made good on that promise. Posting story with the video to its website after the honking wave that story in those videos are no longer online. When asked to comment on the station's apparent collaboration with police, Tim Ermitage president and general manager of chaos to you FOX thirteen said in August of two thousand and eleven FOX thirteen news center reporter. Washington state to interview Josh Powell and also cover a Hunkin wave organized by Chuck Cox. We made the editorial decision to share the unedited video of both newsworthy events with our audience online. The honking wave generated a lot of own activity that was captured on the wiretap in later reports. Police wrote the Josh's demeanor on the phone was aggressive a one hundred eighty degree shift from the tearful way. He presented himself to the cameras can even call the media consultant and asked how to appear more sympathetic when talking about Susan. In one call with his brother, Michael, Josh explained. He had never shared with anyone his activities on the night of Susan's disappearance. Three days later Josh's brother, Michael filed a declaration in support of Josh's request for a protective order Mike called Chuck hateful and deplorable he like his brother accused the Kocsis of spreading lies through the media and tearing open his family's old wounds. Appears county. Superior Court Judge held a hearing on Josh's request on August. Twenty third true to form Josh showed up late most of the time. A judge would just say okay spot as here. This this missed move on. But they waited for Josh and Chuck both stood before the judge for his part. Josh repeated the story about Chuck supposedly mouthing the words you're dead during the encounter at Lowe's, he knew that we would be there. And he has been stocking us to come into the places where we would be to try to inject himself into our lives, which have not gone. Well, Chuck's attorneys Steve downing called that nonsense under no circumstances has Mr Cox ever ever threaten Josh with how the hearing did not go all that. Well for either side Richard pie has a report on the extrordinary tension between the two families. So that's right. This happening just within the last hour. Bruce in Dini, the Washington judge hearing, the case didn't really feel that polls request rose of the level of a full on domestic violence restraining order, but she did grant anti harassment orders to Powell based on Powell's claims that Susan's father has been threatening Cox says that he contacted Paul in fact, because he just wants to see the grandchildren, but the anti harassment. Order went both ways. Josh was also prohibited from. Attacking the Kocsis or coming within five hundred feet of them. Shuck felt flabbergasted really you're giving him something. And I'm thinking really doesn't really matter. I'm not going to house anyway. But it's on the basis of it. It's unfair to grant something to somebody. Who didn't he didn't know what to ask for? He didn't he showed contempt for the core by showing up late. He really putting be bothered to be there on time for it. And he had no basis for anything. But doors going to grant this anyway, and I it's just ridiculous that that the judge did that I could not believe they did that. But on the other hand, I don't even bother neom or Josh might have considered the anti harassment. Order win little did he know? His luck was about to take a huge turn for the worse. The very next morning on August. Twenty fourth two thousand eleven a judge in Washington sign a warrant authorising search of Steve Powell's home. They executed that warrant the next day more than twenty members of the west valley police department in Pierce county sheriff's office took part. Thank god. We haven't many because that house and the things that we found west just I'd say look crazy. That's Pierce county. Detective sergeant Gary Sanders he was the top police liaison for the Powell case in Washington. Gary had written the warrant based off of information west valley city's lead detective else. Maxwell had provided the two of them led the charge. It was nuts. They pounded on the front door. Steve's house shortly afternoon. Josh answered only to have a flood of armed cops rush into the house shouting police search warrant. Hillis, and Gary flashed copies of the warrant while ordering Josh John Andolina outside Alina at first refused to budge, but she didn't have much choice in the end hot day. I remember thousand see and it was huge house quadrant. Hometown of their big three thousand square foot home, lots rooms, but you have all those people live in there, and then lots of clutter a deputy found Charlie and Brayden in the home and brought them outside as well. The boys, you know, or opened a CNS, and we're, you know, I think they're happy when they saw outside people were excited for Steve was not at home his work schedule that day included a meeting far out of town. What a convenient coincidence. Steve. He was not there. Okay. Hang on there. I think I came across it somewhere and Steve's writings that. He thought you guys came up with a phony. Job for him to call him away from the house that day. You know, maybe maybe not. But he wasn't there. He was it was a couple of hours away on business. Would I be incorrect? If I characterized it as he was called away on a on a job that turned out not to be. I don't know if it was valid or not. I'm not sure how I wasn't there for for that business meeting. But he wasn't there. So that was good. All right for now. I have to ask the question again Ellis wouldn't talk to me about this part of the plan. But I've learned from never before revealed police planning documents that detectives had arranged a business opportunity for Steve and invited him through an intermediary to discuss it over lunch at the Red Lobster in Kennewick, Washington. That's in the Tri cities area about a four hour drive away from south hill. Obviously Josh was going to call his dad and alert him to what was happening at the house. Detectives back in Salt Lake City would catch those conversations on the wiretap. I'm pretty sure he was in communication with his father quite a bit. Reporters were not far behind the police photographers set up their tripods around a perimeter of yellow police tape that fluttered under the summer sun. We realize that everybody wants to have answers and in due time. Those answers will be brought forward let's valley. Police set up. It's crime scene trailer outside Josh pals, Washington hope authorities use it to conduct interviews and process any evidence about a dozen detectives joined members of the Pierce county sheriff's department in the search for clues we've got reason to believe problem with cause to believe that there are some items evidence revalue inside the home of the house merit who's in Washington wouldn't say what that evidence is. But he says whatever they find will help further the investigation as far as what we're doing today. This is just a step that has taken a while to get to. Word spread quickly both in Washington and Utah. It was not long before Susan's, dad. Chuck heard about buddy list. Like, okay. This is great Vialli something moving on in a direction where should be the warrant gave police wide latitude the primary target was Susan's journals. But it also listed computers and digital media that might hold scanned copies or anything containing possible. Passwords that might be used to get past Josh's encryption add to that any photos videos or trace evidence, and you have grounds for a very exhaustive. Search. Josh didn't want to wait around. Problem was the warrant also apply to his minivan. He wasn't going anywhere until the detectives searched it the team did a first sweep of the house finding computers almost every room Josh's bedroom held a laptop that was powered on and logged in a Lena's bedroom contained four computers and a wireless router one of the searchers disconnected. The router insuring that no one could remotely log into any of the machines over the wifi. Josh had other computers out in the yard. He told police he needed them for his job. He didn't want to see them sucked into the same black hole that had swallowed all of his computers from the Sarah circle house in Utah that detectives told him they could speed up the process of releasing the computers back to him. If he'd provide them with all of his passwords, Josh said, he couldn't remember his passwords. They were too long and too complex. Ellison heard this story before he put a keyboard in front of Josh and told him to let muscle memory takeover. Josh tapped out a long string of characters which detectives recorded. Josh also handed over a USB key needed to get around encryption on one of his computers in his minimal conversations with us. We were able to recover a pretty lengthy password from him as we gave him a keyboard to type it out. But it didn't assist us in getting into any of his hard drives on the wiretap police later over her Josh telling his brother, Michael that he had lied to police about not being able to remember his passwords both then and back in two thousand and ten of course, Josh said he knew his passwords, he'll we were hoping to get some more information from Josh. But he just he wouldn't talk to us a west valley. Police Lieutenant took Alina aside. She like her brother was angry that police planned to take her computers in a later report. The Lieutenant said Alina insisted Josh was innocent. Int-? She said she'd only changed her mind on that if shown clear proof to the contrary she asked about the search of minds around ily the prior weekend saying she believed it had been a ruse. The search of Josh's van was over and done with relatively quickly. Once Josh had his keys back. He loaded Charlie and Brayden into their car seats. He told a Lena she ought to leave. But she ignored his advice and stayed at the house with her brother, John. So they stay there for ten hours in the backyard. They can be in the house because we don't want them tampering evidence. But you know, we try to respect that they once they they're so we provided them shade and water and stuff like that. But they said there the whole time, and she was on the phone Olena lot that day while she was in the backyard, and I'm sure she was related to both Stephen Josh what was going on news. Helicopters circled over south hill. Chuck Cox who didn't live all that far away wasn't close enough. By to see them in person. I was gonna make up chair. We're, you know, an interesting place to be. Share in in a studio down and in Seattle getting ready to go on to talk about easy. So I was waiting for that interview. And hey, you gotta see this. And we got the life e from the hilltop, you're circling the the place where the place and we've got okay, great figured finally, west valley city, arrested in the idiot. You know, and they're going to seize everything and Chuck was disappointed as the live video feed show Joshua's minivan, weeding around all of the police cars and TV live trucks parked on his street. It went out to Jim heights drive and left the neighborhood. Detectives went through the house room by room. They carried individually numbered plastic tags like the ones you sometimes get at a restaurant. So the server knows where to bring your order. They placed a tag next any piece of potential evidence. Then photographed to be thorough and being efficient were documenting photographing things in place Mark, and then they're basically all transferred over to west valor. They have a nineteen foot cargo trailer that they brought up with them, and we just constant current stuff. Outbox ended up taking it and putting in there for them to take back to west valley. Jones to getting around inside the Powell house was a pretty big challenge. Bookshelves lined nearly every wall Steve had quite the libraries stuffed with volumes about love religion. And psychology, the bedrooms were all jam packed with junk boxes were piled in the hallways. Horder is your biggest nightmare on a search warrant just because you know, you have to go through every item. You know, you wanna make sure that there's no evidence tucked away people. You know, you don't keep your child porn right on dining room table or you don't keep your homicide weapon. You know, there's going to be tucked away. So you're. You have to look through everything. So that that was that's why we're there so long with that many people we were still there that long Josh's bedroom was probably the neatest. It was upstairs. On the desk, next to his computer, sat an envelope of four by six photo prints. The pictures were of an old mine a place called blind minor of the Wasatch in big Cottonwood canyon south and east of Salt Lake City. A bunch of papers on the desk. Held notes about Susan's journals and plans for the Susan Powell dot org website a to do list for the site included. Throw out more theories police found Charlie's handwriting scribbled on another sheet of paper dated July twenty first of two thousand eleven. He'd written one time some girl locked in a closet with the light off, and I hate Jenny Kirk. I also Susan's mom and dad tortured her one thing I know is her dad hit her on the back. Shelves lined one of the walls and Josh's room. They were full of little woodworking projects. The fruits have Charlie and Britain's labors at the Saturday morning hardware store workshops, Josh loved visit next to those shelves satis mall desk and the monitor for a security camera system. It was switched on live video feeds showed the driveway the front porch the yard and the street. Josh it appeared had grown rather paranoid as he was getting more. Detectives cracked the lid on banker's box that sat in front of the bookcase. Bingo, there were Susan's childhood journals played out really, well, we were able to get in. And collect a lot of potential evidence. We're able to recover Susan's journals that they would not provide us downstairs in the garage. Detectives came across a locked safe Alina told them it belonged to Josh. And she didn't know the combination LS told her to call Josh and get it. Otherwise, they'd have to take the whole thing back to Utah and tear it open. Alina dial. Josh and explained the situation he coughed up the combo the door to the safe. Swung open revealing four CDs. Labels scribbled on the discs with a marker showed three held archives of Josh's old files. His journals, his finances, his schoolwork and more. The fourth disc appeared to holding Christian keys. Charlie and Brayden shared a bedroom. If you could call it that it held just a single small bed, normal, kids, bedroom or two boys bedroom, you think toys talker trucks, tons of Legos stuff like that. Now, it would've made sense for the hardware store woodworking projects. The boys had built to be in their room not in Josh's room. Instead the walls of the boy's bedroom were like most of the rest lined with shelves of Steve's books. John's bedroom was even more cluttered than the rest of the house. At Johns was interesting self had a noose on a hangman's news at a giant link paper pterodactyl that was hanging. His drawings of you know, swords through women's China's and just weird depictions and stuff and then bags of like hair toenail clippings that just. Yeah. It was it was a house or through there just his room. And then when we got in the. Leaves room. Detectives went into the master bedroom. Steve's lehrer. They stripped the sheets off the bed. They opened all of his dresser. Drawers, they found a set of white three ring binders full of sheet music, the complete works of Stephen Chantrey can. Strong enough to chew. They went into the walk-in closet and found a beige tutor or filing cabinet. It was locked though, they already had an idea of what it held thanks to that earlier. Search of the house Steve had consented to in may of two thousand ten the Lieutenant brought in power drill and went to work on the law. Let me warn here. What police found inside the filing cabinet was disturbing. Yeah. I mean, what do you say? When you what we, you know, I you open opening up like this kind of, you know, you're thinking some people have, you know, enjoy sex toys or other things pornography and stuff like that. But this was twenty to twenty five Texas there. We all went while. We were like, that's crazy. The top drawer held Steve's trophies of Susan a black bra. A red blouse and plastic container full of temple garments. Members of the church of Jesus Christ latter-day saints where those garments under their regular clothing as a reminder of promises made to their heavenly father within the churches temples they view the garments as sacred. Steve had stolen Susan's garments from out of her thirty laundry nearly ten years earlier and kept them all that time the concept that doing so had been an act of heresy only served to enhance his thrill. There were voyeur photos of Susan as well as shots from joshing Susan's wedding. Steve had used scissors or razor to cut Josh's face out of those pictures, his son. It seemed was not welcome in his fantasies. Then there were the plastic Baggies. The fetish beyond fetishes and stuff when you've got bags of tampons at have been dated and stuff from Susan bags under were cotton balls from when she takes, you know, just taking fingernail polish off clippings in the bottom drawer. Police found commercially produced pornography on DVD and some home recording VHS tapes. The Lieutenant used a tape deck connected to a TV Steve's bedroom to quickly scan the tapes he discovered they were voyeur videos of Susan and other women in other words evidence. Detectives found more VHS and hi eight videocassettes scattered around Steve's room some were labeled with Susan's name. They also located his height camcorder with a tape loaded and ready to use. You know, we're looking through seeing his eight millimeter tapes looking. DVD drives CDs stuff, and you're like, okay. That's in there, in plain view. We know what kind of fish is. He has now what's what's on these videos? They collected. All those tapes to be reviewed in full at a later date. Perhaps most embarrassing for Steve though, they found his journals. Fifteen Mead brand spiral bound notebooks. Each holding one hundred fifty college ruled pages more than twenty two hundred pages in all they contained ten years of his obsessive writings about Susan categorize as filthy fantasies of Stephen POWs. The investigators cleared the house around midnight. As they were leaving. They learned Josh and Steve might be headed toward seatac airport to catch a plane out of town. They raced north in the hopes of catching them but were unable to spot. Joshua Steve's minivans as it later turned out. Neither Josh nor Steve ran that night though. Both probably wished later that they had. Soon. Nami had other pieces as well. Some of which were never executed due to time cost or opportunity the whole operation caused a fundamental shift in the state of play in sealed court documents police later wrote detectives caught Josh lying to his family about where he had gone in the rental car as for Steve he made a call during the rate at his house in which he described being hesitant to bring his laptop into his minivan during the drive back. The van was also listed on the warrant and anything inside of it was subject to seizure. Steve also expressed embarrassment over police finding his tapes journals and all the rest, Steve's humiliation had only just begun. A couple of weeks before the raid on August eighth. Josh walked into the Bank of America branch about five miles north of his dad's house. He held an object in one hand. This was familiar territory for Josh the Bank sat at the southwestern corner of one twentieth street east and Meridian that's just down the road from the south hill mall and across the street from the mail Corum YMCA where he'd enrolled his sons in summer programs. Josh knew right where to go he signed in. Then carried the object into the vault that held the safe deposit boxes. His box. Number seven fifty seven was one of the smaller ones on the wall. It had a light Brown face. And was just big enough to hold what he carried pulling out his keys. Josh opened the box placed the item into it. Then put the Botts back in reluctant. He exited. The vault and walked out of the Bank, never realizing he was being watched. It wasn't the police who were keeping an eye on. Josh not that time. It was a member of the public. Now Josh's face didn't really stick out in a crowd. But he'd started to open up through the summer of two thousand and eleven and had even done some media appearances when his dad did the today show, Josh even provided an interview of his own. He sat down with a Seattle TV station a little while later in described the loneliness felt since Susan disappeared. All this is to say the person who spotted Josh at the Bank recognized him. But didn't think anything of it at the time. However after the search warrant rate hit the news that person called police in Seattle with a tip they needed to get Josh's safe deposit box. Pierce county sheriff's detective Gary Sanders showed up at the Bank a couple of weeks later on September. Twelfth he brought with him a search warrant and power drills. The log for box seven fifty seven showed it had. I been rented a year earlier in August of two thousand and ten Josh stopped by total of fourteen times. Sometimes coming every other week other times going month or two before returning. After drilling out the lock Sanders. Removed the contents of the box a single three point five inch hard drive. That's the size commonly used in desktop computers. It was bare not in any sort of external case the drive was Seagate brand with a capacity of one point five terabytes. A label. Stuck to the top of the drive hell Josh's name next to. It was a blue sticky note marked with seven handwritten dates. The earliest went back to April two thousand eleven the most recent was August eighth the same day the witness had seen Josh enter the Bank with the drive. This was Josh's offsite backup. Sanders sealed the drive in a plastic bag put it in a box and ship at FedEx overnight to west valley city. West valley. Detectives took the drive to the inter mountain west are CFL or regional computer forensics laboratory to join the rest of the growing pile of digital evidence seized during the search for Susan. On the next episode of cold. Josh win come out, man. You know, if something like that's going on you've got police outside your dad's getting arrested, people are taking your kids and stuff like that. You'd think you'd come out if you haven't already please subscribe to cold tosses rating or a review you can find cold on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter at v cold podcast for video clips pictures from the case and more hit up the cold podcast dot com. Also, if Susan story sounds familiar in your own mind. In other words, if you or someone you know is experiencing domestic abuse in any form, please get immediate help in the US. Support is a phone call away at the national domestic violence hotline at one eight hundred seven nine nine seven two three three or online at WWW dot the hotline dot org. A quick thank you to the team. Kristen sorenson. Eric openshaw, Ken fall, Danielle Prager, cure, Fairmont. Becky, Bruce, Josh Tilton at a Mason, Jillian Friedman, and especially Cheryl Worsley, the music for cold was composed by Michael bond Miller, except for the tar stuff that was me cold is a KSL podcast. Thank you for listening.
Ep. 8: Wearing a Wire
"This podcast discusses domestic violence criminal behavior. Murder and adult themes while not explicit. Listener discretion is advised. Josh Powell loaded his sons, Charlie and Brayden into their car seats on Saturday, December nineteenth of two thousand and nine. He was leaving west valley City Utah for his dad's house on the outskirts of Puyallup, Washington, his wife Susan had been missing for twelve days. LS Maxwell west valley city's lead detective on the case was powerless to keep joshing Utah. It was frustrating at the most because. Is a crime ever investigating here. And. The individuals that were really focusing on is now leaving the state and going twelve hours away on Christmas Eve and Christmas day. Josh dropped the boys with Susan's parents each time. He refused to even set foot inside his in laws home Susan's, dad. Chuck Cox had suspected from the beginning. The Josh was responsible for his daughter's disappearance say for other than what did you do? You creep. You know, you'd better get her. You'd better find fighter shows where she is. Free her from wherever you have stashed or whatever he done between Christmas and New Year's west valley. Police learned about Joshua's request to withdraw Susan's retirement using the power of attorney. She had signed earlier that year. They couldn't stop the distribution. The paperwork was airtight. But the start of the new year Ellis learned Josh did not intend to come back. He was moving away from west valley permanently. It was surprising to us. But it wasn't. Remember police had been keeping close tabs on Josh's movements, including using a GPS tracker Rozan we're following him or doing everything that we can to see if we pick up on any cues, and he'll kind of. Screw up somewhere. He'll be like. Okay there. It is. Or you know and build a locator word of Josh's arrival spread quickly among the community. In Puyallup, didn't take long for Josh to kind of ruffled the waters up there. And you know, when people start learning that he was in the area and the kids were coming to church or whatnot. You know, it caused some concern and rightfully so because I think everybody wanted to see an end in this investigation. Probably want to see him sitting in jail. And then obviously Susan to be found. This is cold episode eight wearing a wire, I'm Dave collie right back after this as we head into the new year. Many are making New Year's resolutions that seem to have one thing in common. And that is finding ways to save money as you ring in the new year, ladies, if you're looking for a new hair care routine. Let me tell you about Madison Reed because Madison Reed is hair-color reinvented. Gorgeous salon-quality colored delivered to your door for less than twenty five dollars. No longer. Do you just have to choices between the outdated box color or the time and expense of a salon? What makes Madison Reed color unique is that it's crafted by master color to blend the nuances of light and dark, cool and warm, and they can create over forty five gorgeous, multi tonal, shades, and it can be delivered right to your home. Go to their website and get an expert color consultation or take the color quiz at Madison. Dash Reed dot com. Code podcast listeners get ten percent off plus free. Shipping on their first color kit with code cold. That's code c o l d go to Madison. Dash Reed dot com. Members of the gym heights ward were buzzing Josh had suddenly shown up in their midst. He attended services at the church on the first Sunday of two thousand and ten January third with his boys. Charlie and Brayden it had been a while since Josh attended church with any sort of regularity when he and Susan had met. Of course, Josh was in every Sunday kind of guy his personal journals from that time often included what he called spiritual entries have. Sort trials. But I am exceedingly exceedingly blessed in the spirit. And so much that I know what I have to do that I have to live righteously in order to receive those blessings, but of course, Josh had lost interest in religion. Just a few years after marrying Susan that remained a source of friction in their marriage right up until she disappeared. So it seemed odd that he would suddenly find faith again. Right. Then there was a logic to it. Josh needed help. He introduced himself to the Bishop of the gem heights ward. A man named doll Johnson as the husband with the missing wife in Salt Lake City, then he explained he was moving into the neighborhood. He'd lost his job and couldn't afford food. The Bishop offered Josh food assistance and gave him the name and number of an employment specialist. Josh it also brought the boys to church, Charlie. And Brayden attended primary. That's the church's Sunday school program for young kids. Well, they're Charlie ran wild. He was rambunctious just weeks shy of his fifth birthday and surrounded by new unfamiliar people, the primary teacher, crystal Lewis had no clue who Charley was she didn't know if he was visitor or if his parents were new members of the congregation. At one point during the class. Charlie flipped the light switch on and off. Crystal told him to stop he just grinned having discovered a new game. Then he turned the lights out again. Crystal Warren, Charlie that if he didn't shape up she would have to tell his mom and dad that he was misbehaving. My mom is dead. Charlie said. Lewis was stunned later that day. She learned Charlie's. Last name was Powell she realized he was the son of the missing woman from Utah. The son of the guy who'd been all over the news. Five days later. Josh was back in Utah. He and his brother Michael pulled up to the Sarah circle house in west valley with a u haul truck and trailer in spite of all that had happened Josh's. Neighbors turned out to help impact. They moved boxes tools and furniture into the truck. Josh stood around watching and giving directions. I helped packed the kitchen up most of the kitchen a little teeny bit in the bedroom. I felt uncomfortable in the bedroom 'cause like that your private space. I don't want to be in there, and then a little bit downstairs and in the storage, Wendy tra- heels parents live a couple houses away from the Powell house. She had heard rumors about trouble in Josh and Susan's marriage. But wasn't sure what to believe all the feds starched? They had I'm like that. She couldn't have been starving out of fish. They have five gallon jugs of rice and peanut butter corn and like all kinds of food storage that last for longtime five gallons of peanut butter in more than five Beckett has quite a bit. So there were other buckets in the basement though, the Josh didn't want anyone but his brother Michael to get near after Josh. And Michael had moved them out. Of the basement Wendy noticed, what appeared to be an odd. Chemical splashed on the exposed insulation of the seller. Some of it also appeared to have spilled on the floor in the kitchen. Josh joked that it was blood, and he'd better clean it up before the police arrived to me it was you don't joke about stuff like that. When you're in a situation like he was in. When Josh wasn't looking Wendy pressed a piece of packing tape to the spot on the kitchen floor collecting a sample. She did the same thing in the cellar. She eventually provided both pieces of tape to police who tested the samples for blood both came back negative one point Josh quipped. He had just loaded Susan's head into the truck. Then he laughed Wendy didn't respond. So Josh asked if she had heard him and let Amna. Looking I turned away down and finished packet. And I'm like did he really just say that are you serious? Josh wouldn't give it up. Finally, Wendy asked him if he meant a mannequin hit something Susan what of used for 'cause Matala g Josh said. Yeah, then laughed again. It was interesting Qassam times, he'd crack those horrible jokes. And then sometimes he'd be really emotional whenever he packed up in the bedroom. He'd get really motioned all and cry and he'd have to come out of the room. Take a break. And then he tried to go back in. And sometimes he's like, all right? I'm not gonna work on this for, you know, an eight say a different day. Word made it back to Susan's parents in Washington that Josh was abandoning the house. The fact that he was moving back to said he knows where she is that she's not coming back. Chuck Cox called Josh's sister, Jennifer grades to help Paca now because we felt like that was the right thing for him to do to leave. But because we wanted to. I guess be a little bit more in the know, Chuck it asked us to set aside a couple of Susan's personal things that he didn't want disappearing. She auto graduation present which was a a badge with the storage. And she had her journals in there, and we wondered her journal there are Dr journal say we should ever girl. And he wanted everything he he what use would have for her dresses, none. But he wanted him. Michael saw Jennifer walking out of the house with some boxes not toward the U haul. But instead toward her own van he stepped in front of his older sister and told her to stop said just felt like a really strange situation. Why are you all covering up for him? Why aren't you just pushing him to just tell what he knows when that be the right thing to do Josh told Jennifer, she couldn't take the boxes or the deacons bench. She called soon. Dad, then handed her phone to Josh he argued with Chuck, but finally agreed to let Jennifer take the bench. So when he said, we have it. I said she heard yes, we can have it. She took and put in Kearney overlay. So it was gone. And then later, he changed his mind as I want can't sorry, it's gone. So then it was all your stolen. No because of pressure from other ward members that were in the room at the time, we were able to get that deacons bench and. And some things he wouldn't give the I don't think he ended up giving the pictures or Susan's journals under no circumstances would he'll out the Kocsis to have those journals any gives him to his dad really when an idiot. Who would do that? If the move back to Washington was meant to be a clean break for Josh. It didn't work out that way, he called the gem heights. Ward leaders on January eleventh to let them know he'd need help unloading, the U haul. Latter-day saints tend to have something of a reputation when it comes to this kind of service the task of helping Josh fell to the wards elders quorum, the president of the elders quorum was a man named rod Stevens, he explained to Josh it would take some time to rally enough people, but they'd get the job done. Rod about five other guys met Josh historic unit in the city of Sumner on the evening of Wednesday January thirteenth. Yeah. It was a good size storage unit. And they even built a loft above us. We could put stuff up higher even his father was there. And his brother is younger brother was there. That would of course have been Michael. Rot in the crew started to unload, the U haul high has some kids stuff his stuff. But fact, I remember he didn't have anything of Susan's really surprised me who just wasn't anything of hers. But who's just all his stuff in the kid stuff? Stephen Michael both pitched in helping carry stack boxes Josh stood off to one side and watched Josh's lazy won the laziest people have known. He was kinda Loof from us. He would kind of walk around and look at hull of his his goods, but he didn't help lift anything didn't help us. Father didn't help his brother he ate dorito chips and drink water. And he did that until I was so frustrated that I would grab boxes and put them right in Josh's hands. Then he would take the box that I gave him he'd walk set it down. Then he'd go back and drink his water needs potato chips. Josh didn't even bother with conversation during the two hours took the stack the storage unit. No fact to he really said anything at all. Except to tell us. Thanks, and that he was because I kept handing inboxes. He told me. I'm really tired and really thirsty has told me, and I said, okay. And then had him another box. I didn't care if Josh bother to ask he might have learned rod wasn't only the elders Corum president. He was also a federal agent rods day job was with the US postal inspection service. I work in law enforcement. So. My own thoughts where I wonder if part of our bodies in this bucket that I'm offloading. He had he had so many bucks can't recall now, but I won't take fifty hundred buckets of five gallon buckets served on pickup heavy bucket. I'm thinking what is his partisan in this bucket? Literally a my wondering that the barrels contain food storage grain mostly. Rod kept his eyes open though for any possible. Shred of evidence. He didn't see any. No, if I would have found something than I would have stopped right down. And I would have held it out of called west valley than what a call the local agency out. We would have held it period. And then I would have backed myself off because. Wouldn't have been my my jurisdiction my, but but it would have stopped right? Then of course, that didn't happen when they were done. Rod contacted his boss who just happened to be a former police officer for west valley city. It was a crazy coincidence. Yeah. Absolutely. You probably win. The lottery is your then than saying, hey, I was Josh Pels. All those corn president, I work in law enforcement rods. Boss reached out to some old contacts at the department and told them where they could find Josh's storage unit detective Ellis Maxwell was already on the hunt for it. He traveled to Washington that same week and had visited several storage unit. Businesses in the area at the time police believed Josh or possibly Steve might be holding Susan captive in one. Ellis also visited Steve's work Washington correctional industries, but didn't spend anytime lolly gagging around. We we were interviewing friends and family past old friends, high school friends, all the way to descend schoolteachers and putting together in developing plans as far as what our next step was going to be on the same day that rod Stevens was helping unload Josh's you hall the Sunday school teacher. Crystal Lewis was telling Ellis what Charlie Powell had told her his mommy was dead. That wasn't even the most dramatic thing to happen that day on January thirteenth Josh's estranged older sister. Jennifer learned her husband Kirk was scheduled to fly to Seattle for work the following week. I set in the had this idea that I needed to go to and that we needed to go and confront Josh. And see if we could get him to confess she called the west valley. Police department to ask for some advice at first the response didn't seem all that enthusiastic. They don't know who to trust. They don't know that I'm really really there to help them. But Jennifer had started to develop a report with many of the detectives, I called Ellis, and I asked him can you? I mean, can I do this? I didn't even know if they would be okay with that. You know, would that be okay with that be legal with that be with that mess up? What they're doing Ellis warned Jennifer that confronting Josh could be dangerous, but he couldn't. Stop her the idea continued to stir Jennifer's mind, and we're just Vance's ideas off. What if I got wired what if the police were like behind this and actually wired me, and we got like evidence. So I called Alice again, this is this is what I wanted to. I think what if we wired me and I went in. It was great never forget when. Jennifer came to me with that proposal. Get ally smile on my face, and I like this. But it wasn't that simple. Utah is a one party consent state. That means as long as one person in conversation knows it's being recorded. It's all good Washington on the other hand is two party consent. All people involved must be made aware of and agreed to being recorded. Jennifer, obviously wasn't going to tell the rest of her family. She was carrying a hidden microphone. So because of that you really gonna jump through a lot of hoops and your warranties to have the right language Ellis reached out to detective Gary Sanders with the Pierce county sheriff's office. They worked together to secure a warrant that would allow Jennifer to break the two party consent rule when your own sister, your own sibling, your own blood is willing to turn. And she knows that. That's what's going on. That speaks volumes kurkin Jenner. For arrived in Washington on January twenty first the following day. They went to the Pierce county. Precinct to meet the team got all wired up. I had a thing in my pocket, and that was recording. It was also transmitting a live feed of that audio to a police vehicle parked district or two away from the Powell home a helicopter orbited overhead. They didn't anticipate violence, but the police gave Jennifer codewords to us if the situation got out of hand if that happened Pierce county, deputies would rush the house. It was a little nerve wracking simply because you just don't know what's going to happen Ray. Yeah. We know Jennifer. We know the pals, but we all know emotions or hard to manage. And so once she was in that situation. It was a little nerve wracking, Jennifer, summoned, her courage. She in Kirk pulled up to the curb outside of her father's house at about five thirty PM stepped out of the car and knocked on the door. The audio. You're hearing now comes from the recording device. Jennifer was wearing that evening. For the first time in years, the whole Powell clan. Steve, Jennifer, Josh, John, Michael Alina and the boys Charlie Brayden were together under one roof relations between my family, and I were already strained. And so the fact that I would show up is probably a big red flag to them all ready. And so are they on their guard? Yeah. For sure they're on their guard Susan's absence loomed over the gathering, but no one acknowledged the elephant in the room that you completely avoid except that you have to skirt around it because it's taken up so much room. Charlie. And Brayden seemed excited to see familiar faces from their former home in Utah. Both boys had recently celebrated birthdays. Susan had not tried to contact boys on Christmas or on either one of their birthdays, yet another sign she was not only missing, but likely dead. Charlie now, five head a message for Jennifer about her recent appearances on the news. Making. Okay. On that. Been to bothersome lately. All last voice belonged to Josh he chatted with kurkin Jennifer about his trip with Michael in the U haul. A couple of weeks prior Mike. Did he really? He was about. Josh seemed relaxed. He talked freely about birthday party plans for the boys and his efforts to find a new job. He said he hoped to land something in the IT field. If not well, there was always unemployment thought right now it would be. Gold award. Very important. Early in the game. Yeah. The Sarah circle house back in west valley city was also on Josh his mind, he still had a mortgage to pay and with no income the house was turning into an albatross. Probably go. Go obviously, go back, hue tightening. Yeah. I don't know when. Did. Josh wasn't sure selling was the best idea though. The market was soft and the house still needed some work like finishing the new back deck or completing the basement. You know, life the rental idea that didn't code. Traffic. Nothing. I can do at that point. Just playing. Then I could make the different sort of carry black. Guessing. The difference shortfall anyone Josh's finances were tight not only had he lost his job Susan's income was gone as well. He had used the power of attorney to draw her 4._0._1._K, but that money wouldn't last very long credited out. Out. You know, we're basically. Already. Right. Oh, no one the United credits. I've never been tonight. But. At no point during any of this did Josh talk about Susan as anything other than an asset. He didn't lament her loss or complain about the straits. She had put him in by leaving something. He might have been expected to do if she had taken off with some other guy. In fact, he didn't raise a single question about where she might be bec- of Susan's disappearance never came up until I brought it up. I had to force this update. And it was it was very strange in strained at least on my side felt very strained. Because this is so weird. We're not even saying anything about it. And he doesn't appear to be distressed at all about his wife. Not being here not knowing where she is the Powell family sat down to dinner. Josh Unperfect aristocrat asked to say grace. Jennifer's heart raced as they ate behind a forced smile, she wondered how best to make her move. I just didn't even know how to go about it. Do you do this is soft approach? Do you take a hard line? How do you approach someone when you know that they're guilty of a heinous crime and get them to admit that pork chops disappeared from their plates and dinner was soon done while the rest of the family cleared. The table Jennifer poll, Josh aside into the office closing the French doors behind them. Hushed voice. She told her brother there had been rumors that he would be arrested soon. What? Rumer? Doesn't. I know this is tough to understand. So listen close. I. News. Jennifer told Josh to take a plea bargain. Don't be ridiculous. Happen. Voice for. Jennifer warned him if he goes to jail it will be for a long time. And he wouldn't be able to see his boys for years. Jennifer pressed questioning where he had gone in the rental car on December eighth and ninth. Those mysterious eight hundred miles in eighteen hours. They think that you were going for him. About. Fifty nine. Talk to you. I mean. There's no. There's no plea bargain. Rumer? No one's listening. I don't know. Josh's response. I doubt the rumors. But whatever I mean who knows Jennifer tried another approach. Told me about it. My attorney has told me just don't talk about it about specifics. You know, all of them. I know. Joshes responses and his behavior his actions. When Jennifer pro you. You know, kinda similar to the interview interogations that we conducted with him. You know, I can't talk about it. I gotta go through my Turney, dude. You're not talking to a cop. You're talking to your sister. Tell me what happened. Sister. She's trying a low what happens. Happen. No. Appeals didn't work. Josh wasn't going to tell her anything. You can only play that for a minute. You can only act the way he was acting. You can only act so long, and he never fell out of that. Which tells me that he is who he is. And he's clearly responsible. It just doesn't seem like you care at all. I can't believe that. You're. You walked away walked away. Yes. Maybe. Josh and Jennifer's youngest brother Michael had noticed them slipping away after dinner. He had followed them staying out of you. But within earshot to hear everything I don't know that they were here and everything, but they were probably concerned because it was a full glass wall with the glass doors, and you could see everything that was going on. And he they were probably a little distressed. In fact, Michael described that day in a court filing years later, he said he'd positioned himself just outside the glass doors because that was standard practice in the family with people they didn't trust. He heard what Jennifer was saying and related that information to his dad. Steve swooped in and put a stop to it. He interrupted telling Josh it was time to go pick up a birthday cake for the boys party. He told Jennifer it was probably time for she end Kirk to leave that he was just they were all trying to play it cool pretend like nothing was happening that they had nothing to do with it as soon Steve left the room. Jennifer went back to work. She challenged Josh asking what he was doing to aid the search. Josh replied in typical form that he was building a website. In the public. I don't care what anyone says about me. Say they love. That's why can't really. Marquette king. She got up and walked away from his. Why it's the guy that killed him killers life and put it in the dump. Okay. Is there something about that? Josh was not being honest here. He knew the Marquette king case very well here again is LS Maxwell humidity. Come to somebody about the Lori hacking case, and he said the Mark hacking screwed up because he he lied to the police too many times he didn't give them. He lied too many times. And he didn't give them reliable information. A brief aside is necessary here Mark hacking shot and killed his pregnant wife Lori in their Salt Lake City apartment in July of two thousand and four just months after Josh. And Susan I arrived in Utah. Hacking tried to stage lorries murder as disappearance. He took her car to nearby park where she liked to jog and abandoned there. He dumped her body and the mattress upon which he shot her in a dumpster. Then went and bought a new mattress to replace the bloodstained one hacking called nine one one to report his wife missing saying she'd failed to return from a morning jog. He went before news cameras and tearfully asked for help the local community spring into action just as it had two years earlier when a young girl named Elizabeth smart had been abducted from her bedroom Salt Lake City police detectives immediately spotted inconsistencies with Mark's story little details like the position of the driver seat in lorries car. Lori was short and wouldn't have been able to reach the gas pedal. But the seat was set perfectly for somebody as tall as Mark. They also learned Mark had not graduated from the university of Utah as he had claimed. Nor had he been accepted to post graduate program in North Carolina as he'd led his family and Laurie to believe. Mark hacking had woven a web of lies. That was stunning in its complexity it had all come apart. When Laurie learn is secret confronted him. And demanded he come clean. That is why he killed her. Police recovered Laura's decomposed remains from a landfill after a search that stretched on for several weeks detective Ellis Maxwell had a hand in. That was a part of that investigation. I was out at the landfill. For can't remember how many weeks looking for Laurie haven't been landfill since. I was sitting on the other side of the fence a lot of waiting on my those those horrible. Yeah. That was not the only. Bye before her death. Lori hacking had worked for Wells Fargo investments. The same company were Susan was working when she disappeared. Some of Susan's coworkers head known Lori. When Susan disappeared in two thousand nine many people were quick to draw parallels between her case and that of the hacking HS five years earlier, the sense in the community seemed to be the Josh would crack under the pressure and confess just as Marquette had. And that the police would ensure order locate and recovers whose remains neither happened. Josh was a much better liar than Mark. Josh clearly took something from that case. And in all honesty is very good advice. Right. You cannot offer too many lies, but you also have to offer some truth. Okay. And he followed that fairly well the comparison didn't faze Josh he brushed off Jennifer's comment flatly denying that his situation was anything like that of Marquette. Before. A lot problem. But. He wants problem. I five. I talked to myself. So. Tell me that I didn't hear from her. Josh had had enough. He told Jennifer he was leaving to go get the birthday cake. I finally actually shoved him into the bathrooms like come on. Just tell me where bodies. And. I've told all writing. Based? I can see it and you can see in your face. I don't know what they because our toll q. Now. I don't know what you mean. And now the. And now, we're. Oh, say. Go do what I'm gonna do. Don't get ready for party. Josh left with his brothers. John and Michael. The operation in Jennifer's is had failed. She and Kirk gathered their things and started making for the door on the way, she shot a parting comment to her dad, Steve. You'll have to enjoy it while he can I guess. What do you mean while he can? I don't think he's going to be able to escape this much longer. Escaped. What? Yeah. Done. Not me. Obviously, you you as well. As a hard time. That's in your. Hard reality. You. Thinks reality. Holiday. Camping. And. Sound like reality? Steve till Jennifer to face reality. And Jennifer said I'll face reality. Let's see Josh went camping in the middle of the night and Susan's gone now that doesn't sound like reality unless he did something. Anyway, once you, you know, I think it's fine to to go the same you going. The pretense of civility that had cloaked the Powell family during dinner came off a. About your daughter might some that when? With all your daughter shocked. Jennifer husband, Kirk stepped in to defend his wife. About the smart. She said he's out there may still put up her month and a half and the female author likes zero she's dead to scenario. They're talking over top of one another there. But cook told Steve the odds were Susan was likely dead. The other female voice you hear there belongs to Alina the youngest of the Powell children. Jennifer questioned why Joshua spent the morning after Susan's disappearance cleaning his house and doing laundry Alina offered a full throated defense of Josh how hard on your active nothing. You're absolutely horrible. Riddick. You hugged your regal and nothing, but ping and you've. Wall the whole time. He is he worked without actually what down and worse that is why he's going everything. Lina claimed Josh dealt with his pain by working and accused Jennifer of doing nothing Steve was I rate he seized on something Jennifer had said ignoring the talk about Josh. Yeah. Me to pass. On you. The lying. There is a lot going on here. Alina? It seemed felt little care for Susan. But Steve confronted by this idea of Susan hating him rejected the thought tell you the whole story tell it to you because you are going to dad has solved anyway. Right. She likes you. We're not. Exactly. Oh can highly. Every year for Christmas. You know, he's quick. Jennifer and Kirk retreated to the car. As they drove away from the house, she filled in her husband on what Josh said or more accurately hadn't said. Call. Kings. I know that's tough to hear. But Kirk asked Jennifer, if she was okay, Jennifer said, no. Yeah. That's. Kirk consoled, his wife as best he could. One. Then Jennifer broke down over what she had seen in her brother's is. My God he killed her. Josh not confessed. But Jennifer was more sure than ever that. He had killed Susan what that brought us and brought to the police department would have brought to trial just another piece another piece of joshes personality, lack of concern consideration for Susan lack of cooperation, and you know, the end of the day is Gil looking back Ellis couldn't help. But praise Jennifer she went into did a phenomenal job in my opinion. She probably felt like she didn't do enough. She didn't push hard enough. She didn't get what we all wanted. And you know, but at the end of the day, you know, she knows that there was nobody was going to break. Josh, nobody. Joshua told kurkin Jennifer he wanted to sell his house in west valley city that was complicated because Susan's name was on the mortgage. Instead, he turned to his former neighbor decks Guzman with an offer. Dax had helped Josh rebuild the deck on the back of the Sarah circle house in the months prior to Susan's disappearance. Josh then suggested Dax and his family move one street over and rent this era circle house, he called us if we wanted to rented the house, and so we're going to use it. And so we took him up on the offer and. Because he knew I knew how to build things and go with my hands. He has if I'd be interested in maybe reduce rent and working something out of finished the basement. So we agree to that wife in the Sarah circle. House had its drawbacks though. News crews continue to set up on the sidewalk there. Bright lights, keeping the Guzman. Kids up at night. I would just house on us when we moved in after he left I tower into that house. Dax wanted to know Susan might still be on the property tore into the ground tarp little some of the parts of the basement that had been redone, but found that it was just more permanent gun in which is fine to rip the backyard the garden that was there several feet down. I tore the whole thing apart just seem just making sure that there wasn't there. Look through the shed. There's a whole bunch of fifty gallon. Watermelons in there and made sure that no. Body in there too. A lot of freaky stuff. But you know, you see things on TV you see things on on the news and movies. So I checked as many places I could she wasn't there. Josh had a hard time finding allies among the local church congregation in Washington by that point word had spread among members of the gym heights ward. And some were unnerved or outright fearful to see a suspected murderer sitting in their Sabbath services. He came to church for while. And he would sit in the back of the corm. He would open up his scriptures. Never turn a page and look blankly in them for the whole hour. It was yeah. You could just tell he was sitting there. But he wasn't there church. Members fell in love though with Charlie and Brayden the noisy. Playful boys would run through the hallways of the church building on Sundays rod Stevens, the president of the words. Elders Corum who helped Josh unpack is you hall. Said it seemed as though Josh wanted to find his boys some friends, but caused a lot of problems because everyone liked his two sons, but they didn't want Josh around. Nobody wanted the Josh in their homes so awkward who's tough and really feel bad for those two kids. But yeah, as much as you want to be involved in kids and help those kids you don't want him by and you can just feel it. He just vacant before long. Josh and the boys disappeared maybe a month to month, two months gun by quick coming to church, and then finally the executive secretary to the Bishop. He saw him at Lowe's and today we haven't seen in church for while. And that's when he told him he said, I don't believe in God anymore. A few months later Josh published a website explaining his decision to abandon the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints and investigate nondenominational Christianity as an alternative the proficiency of the Mormon church to organize motivate people to action can be used for. Positive purposes such as when church members help people with moving or with home repairs. However, the solidarity also motivates individuals to cover for fellow Mormons attack perceived critics of Mormonism, I'm not implying that there's anything wrong. Withdraw choosing not to identify as a latter day Saint any longer. But this website was a slap in the face to many of the people both in Utah and in Washington who had volunteered their time and effort to help Josh move in spite of their own suspicions is absolutely self serving in my opinion. And I think he was there to reasons one I think you needed the help of the church, which was okay. But I think he wanted to keep up appearances just long enough to where he thought it was. Okay. And then he quickly left. Joshua's moved to Washington had taken Charlie and braid and away from the only members of the Powell family who were cooperating with the investigation. Jennifer, and to a lesser extent. Josh's mom Theresa. During January detective Kim Welty placed a call to Washington state's child services agency. She wanted to know if they could drop in on the Powell home and see how the boys were doing a lawyer at the Washington attorney general's office responded saying they're agency didn't have the authority to perform welfare checks unless there was a specific accusation of abuse or neglect west valley police did not have that they also couldn't speak candidly with Washington's child welfare workers because their case was still under a court secrecy order. They were allowed to talk though to the local law enforcement agency Pierce county sheriff's detective Gary Sanders helped secure a warrant from a Washington judge allowing deputies to go to Steve pals house and sees the boys so basically their form of with their statement. And they just wanted to be interviewed. Because now they were in this home, and they were kinda closed off with Stephen. And Josh all of them living in the house. They served that weren't on the morning of March tenth two thousand and ten another Pierce county detective named Theresa Berg approached the boys. She went in there and the boys rant her let her pick them up, and they just glommed onto which was crazy. No strangers and stuff like that taking you out of a home. You would think there'd be a little bit. But she held them. And then we acted with them. I think it was kind of something they were missing. It was just anytime. We're in there. It was cold. It was a cold environment. As detective Kim wilty carried Charlie out of the house the five. Year old asked if he was being arrested. She assured him he was not. The police drove the boys to the Mary bridge safe and sound building. West valley. Detectives including Kim wilty who had performed the first interview with Charlie in December. We're going to get a second shot at it repeat interviews of child. Witnesses were not usual protocol still she had to try. She brought Charlie into a separate room and tried to talk to him. He was not very cooperative. He told the detective he didn't want to talk and walked out of the room in a formal report wilty wrote anything from this point on was not going to be the best case scenario. She tried again. She gave Charlie paper and crayons hoping. They would help him relax. Then she started to ask about Susan Charlie told her heat did not want to talk about that. She asked if he had been camping recently Charlie said, he only goes camping in Utah a desert with rattlesnakes. She pressed for more asking if Susan had gone camping with him Charlie told her he didn't want to talk about that stuff. He wanted to colour not talk, then he left the room again little kiddos like that at that age or tough wealthy turned her attention to Brayden. She started by asking if they could speak about his mom Braiden said something about his mommy, then trailed off into gibberish if they were going to get any answers. It was clear they would have to come from Charlie. The Pierce county crew took the boys to their office if you blocks away for lunch. While they were away from the safe end sound building Charlie told the deputies that he would talk when they returned detective wealthy asked. What he wanted to talk about? Charlie said he wanted to work on his homework and needed a pair of scissors. But was afraid he might cut himself. If she distracted him wilty suggested Charlie not use the scissors while they talked. He said it was okay. He would just ignore her. Yeah. Welty again asked about Susan and camping Charlie said, he couldn't talk about those things because they were secret. He said his mom was lost. But he did not see where he said his uncle Joan new wear. This was interesting detective wealthy asked. Charlie who told him. These things were secret he said, his brain. Then he explained his mom had told him. She was going to the North Pole and would not come back until it stopped snowing. Wilty again asked who had told him these things Charlie said, no one then changed his answer. He said his dad told him that she had been exposed to all of that. Coaching and guiding and direction from Stephen Josh. And so, yeah, they're young rate and the pick up on that. And they see that behavior all day long when they're in the house, they hear it. And so they, you know, they start acting in walking the walk like everybody else in the house, Charlie babbled about the earth going crazy about wanting his aunt, Jennifer and uncle Kirk to die. He wondered what time it was and left to find out when he popped back into the room. A few minutes later, he told detective wealthy. He had only guessed his mom was at the North Pole. The investigators got nothing useful out of the boys that day, man. They're locked up in this powerful and being coached and being directed to. You don't talk about this. You don't talk about that. And that's why we got nothing from Charlie when we did that second interview, the police had no choice, but to return them home Pierce county detective Gary Sanders, told me the drive back to Steve Powell's house was more telling than anything Charlie actually said in the interview it was weird as I'm driving along drive along Theresa's in the backseat with both Charlie braid and Charlie's talked long. Just you know, very talkative and stuff like that. And then he noticed I turned off Meridian I think it was I was going down into their neighborhood. And it was like a switch. He just flipped and also he was like he started looking around and goes, whoa. I'm just gonna tell them. I was with friends or like time. I'll Charlie Nichols. I'm just going to. Gonna tell them I'm gonna tell with friends, and that's all it was. And we're like what are you talking about? He goes. Well, I'm just gonna tell my dad that I was with friends and nothing more in. It was it was the weird the transformation that a Susan knew. He was going back to the house. There was going to be some consequences for him speaking with us and being with us and stuff and that was kind of scared at that point. Because how young he was. But he he was adamant about that. So we got back there. And when he got in there, he you know, ran up to Joshua just like, oh, yeah. With friends dad, and and and tried to play off like it was nothing. And I I'd love to be a fly on that wall. Put Josh talked-about after we left. On the next episode of cold. Because he's got something inside kill his kids. You might, you know, do we know that I know you're saying all he'd never do that. But if you haven't already please subscribe to cold toss us a rating or a review you can find cold on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter at the cold podcast for video clips pictures from the case and more hit up the cold podcast dot com. Also, if Susan story sounds familiar in your own life. In other words, if you or someone you know is experiencing domestic abuse in any form, please get immediate help in the US. Support is a phone call away at the national domestic violence hotline at one eight hundred seven nine nine seven two three three or online at WWW dot the hotline dot org. A quick thank you to the cold team. Kristen sorenson. Eric openshaw, Ken fall, Danielle Prager, cure, Fairmont. Josh Tilton Adam Mason, Jillian Friedman, and especially Shera wars ly- the music for cold was composed by Michael bond Miller, except for the tar stuff that was me cold is a KSL podcast. Thank you for listening.
Ep. 233 - From Homeless Heroin Addict to Millionaire: Khalil Rafati on Addiction, Forgiveness + The Definition of Success
"My language of love is a gift giver i love to give gifts and i love the give opulent gifts i love the help strangers elected do good stuff and not get caught as i was taught and sometimes pretty extreme sometimes financial and i'm not telling you that to try to make you think i'm a good guy i'm telling you it's a coping mechanism there's something magical that she takes place when i see someone struggling and i'm able to help them financially without them knowing it was me you're listening to the almost thirty podcasts hosted by chris williams in the decent almost thirty start it as a conversation about the transition from our twenties or thirties but then we realized that life is full of transition so they expand their mission we are in intuition lead wellness focused lifestyle podcast their promises to deliver authentic conversations divers points of view and insights rooted in optimism grows an intention almost thirty nation community is a group of purposeful dreamers are smart passionate and only seeking the full potential in every aspect of their life had almost thirty were making magic together we dream it and then we do it thanks so much for tuning into the almost thirty podcasts here we go hey guys you on what's up welcome back to the podcast her so glad you're here yeah were so grateful that you found almost thirty podcast if you are new here my name is chris williams and i'm lindsay simsek and we started this this about almost three years ago on are closet force because we were going through life transition that i know a lot of you are going through have gone through a going from her twenties and thirties which is just can be a chaotic but really exciting fighting times we wanna have a larger conversation about it in you all have just been so vocal is well unlike joined in and have grown what almost almost thirties today basically we we attributed to you thank you so much for being a part of this if you guys tune in every week or what's up what's up while fam will come back shirt got a nice present at the at the crypto on friday oh that was a resident and i was like a little nervous because it was from a listener and those little nervous i'm like oh fuck like i don't know if it's safe have my address out there but i think about that were once a week i know hundred you know i just wanna be thoughtful about shit so i was like oh fuck i don't know if this is okay but opened it right i mean some influencers you know get pictures of themselves drawn or something like that you're girl krista gets a retainer case oh my god what kind the cutest retainer case oh my gosh some are firm are very very addressed the issue at one of our listeners suzy she's in oji she sent me h q ass retainer case to align and she's like i know you're doing goshi and you've got you're nasty retainer everywhere here's this case it has like a little like strap where i could read where that should around my neck stop it swear i've never seen one of those before we'll catch me where am i retainer tainer case around my neck fitch it's almost like what's up pendant is slowly invisible leads that we retainer like wow this is where i'm at right now wow some people get either like treats cake things you're like underwear sent to them that's how thoughtful almost thirty nation that's the damn 'cause they're like i'm not gonna send fucking flowers i'm like let in something that means something initial used and she knows me and i actually use it so you're not gonna lose this round if you're in line no eliya a lot of my last round of mind visit line and i was like oh cool it's whatever i could just put in my next round early i i honestly like bed ridden i had a headache all weekend because i just forgot that it's actually changing the shape of my house like the smallest movement take much like yep i dunno energy or whatever it makes such a difference it done here by yeah so if you notice a little bit of bullish that's about what's going on with me i have a few more months of this of this so few in flying by i'm really having i'm having a great time i really like it i feel protected with my retainer antion i so he felt wider because i have less particles nichols on it every day oh i don't the great selling point i'll go with it it's not true at all that but honestly much suzy from my retainer case you could probably use that to whiten your teeth like get a little whitener oh yeah they have some you could and then like yeah that's great idea and i we i know how sweet i was like i was like oh shoot but then i was like oh this is cool actually and update so i walked outside of my apartment yesterday in my sweet neighbor doctor bob who is eighty years old was doing tai cheat in the parking lot starting touchy huge fan i love touchy dot just in love touchy sues doing his little like tight tight she she gong routine and he's like so excited to see me and i was like what's up he's like did you see and i was no they they arrested someone at my building someone who lives in italy packages fuck yeah i know they said it was actually this case was a was someone that didn't let their actually not i don't know if they're homeless or not whatever their situation was but the police caught them they really taking a bunch of packages wow rest of good now isn't it crazy so if you guys didn't listen i've been having my packages stolen for months and months but you didn't reach out of the place now yeah i mean i would think it'd be like a lost costa reach out to them like they would never respond but that's pretty claiming that police take jobs till like relax a little bit they have so much going on i bet you up every once in a while they're like let's get a cat from a tree you know what i mean like everyone who like the three fire truck she barely let us just like let's just do something they call their fire friends were like hey man you board yeah yeah saving for their like when you need a break at work you're like i wanna mix it up a little bit a hundred percent but you know that that's absolutely could be me so feeling good about baby that's so great i i actually to got are listeners are so thoughtful this is just a tell you how you guys are i got an email from one of her listers haley in she's in a nutritious functional medicine program right now angie listen to the doctor axe episode and we were i guess mentioned my a concern or a thought that i might be anemic an it wasn't affecting my digestion and my liver function and all of that so she was talking about how i should get tested for seal yaks based on like what she's been studying in seal x doesn't always show up clearly in a test and oftentimes it's genetic so i just really appreciate did you know there is no like asker anything it was like hey here's this information i was thinking of you because i will seem to be episode and you know i recommend you like maybe take this test and and go from there but i yeah i just really appreciate it because it always comes at the right time so he's a good reminder it's always exactly what i need to hear an and i just appreciate that you care that makes me feel really love now whenever they do stuff where it's like whoa like my friends would set me or something yeah where they really know you yes it's so such it's the best feeling is i feel like i know so many of them so well from yemen events in the group and stuff but you know when you feel like that in return is just the best it is absolutely about me oh i was i was listening to sean and derek yesterday his podcast ancient wisdom today is is really great and for me i always get in a mood where i wanna listen to it and i get a new mood with any podcast and one of those do sometimes i'm like wanna laugh sometimes i wanna just like get all the machine does she spiritual stuff an he did ace solo episode be other day 'em called elevate your thoughts and you know it started out like it it just felt as it like it just truly docking built it was thinking orcas just so amazing it started to really a gain momentum i mean it was like fire and start building gain momentum around minute twenty an and what he was talking about and i'll i'll give a little taste on the podcasts in a moment but he was talking about just when we are taking in content whether it's on tv instagram movies an it's so so violent it's grotesque it is a murderous edits desensitizing us you know this is this is they planned by you know whatever you wanna believe the matrix the system whatever to desensitize sensitize us to this so that when we see war in a movie or tv show you know we've turned on the news and we see you know people being murdered in other countries in a civil war or in the war that were the u s is in like we don't really blink and it's fucking disturbing and i just really needed him like shop this from the rooftops like he did because i think they're areas of my life where i'm absolutely desensitized to things you know and i'm like why am i i don't really taken fucked up content regularly every once in a while i really do like a series where it's like solving the mystery and there's probably a murderer involved i like the storytelling of that is interesting to me but yeah i mean thinking about that and what i'm taking it really made me think a i mean this is my actual life like that topic is it's just like i don't that's what i don't understand like i don't watch anything close to i don't watch black mir i don't watch anything but in order i don't watch anything with crime i don't watch anything but rape i you know i started that michael jackson's neverland couldn't get through the nine minute is hard you know so much that even honestly like i couldn't watch game of thrones because of that oh it's like i don't want to go to bed but that seeping in my subconscious there's so many weird shows on netflix to that are super dark that are like related to to like coats that are related to secret societies that are related to cannibalism that are related to like being like lucifer you know like even like that one show is called lucifer i know it's really hard because so much of the media and so much of of what we consume today it's hard to disseminate you know it's hard to disseminate and it's hard to discern and i'm not coming from a place where i am only consuming you know positivity in in clear sure things because who knows you know i i don't really know but i do think that there is something to that desensitization you know if we think about desensitization west video games with porn with the shows that we watch music music hunting and she talks a lot about music sorry i just and aside like like thee you know the really hard rap where it's like you know big booty hose in the policy in the slam anoma whatever it's like desensitizing somewhere like were kinda like watching the movie videos were dancing to and the clubs really this is fun some good beats and it's like the lyrics are just so grotesque i mean it's like i can't even talk because like i'm a huge fan of like overlapping hip hop and i have been since i was little and cincinnati but it's like if you think about it you know for standing for something in some part of life where we believe that women are equal women should be paid equally women should be treated with respect women are queens women are all these things but then we are listening to this vibrational communication and to us regularly about women being less than women being sex objects women being stupid woman being bitches women being host yup there is a disconnect you know there's a disconnect in so much ever lived and really it's like how could you remedy a part of that were a portion none of it or worrying about what i personally can remedy just for me and not worried about anyone else can remedy for them because that's that's their journey and that's their path but it is something for us to think about an end it's weird sense doing reiki training a you know i've done one into now reiki level to do i know it's the funniest thing i've ever been a part of my life and i laughed about it every day do only thing i could listen to is like christian rock take that i got harvey other day and i was like yeah so long as he is the most tax like not if it's it's honestly like geared if you would've told me five years ago ten years this would be me it's the craziest thing but i it's either i don't really even listen to stuff anymore in the car chinese that as silent time but i can't do as much the music that i used to love and i don't know know if it's because i'm just being more thoughtful and conscious about what i'm letting get into my energy field and what i'm letting seep into my brain yeah i completely agree he talks all about that exactly what you were saying where it's it's like you know if we're gonna stand for this like fucking walk the talk yeah and why is it not cool like that so it's a little frustrating to is that there's there is such a discrepancy between like why isn't clean rap cooler why is it cool to rap about things that are thoughtful and you know i don't know like respectful like why is always about dan's unlike pills and molly end girls and i remember when we pay fiasco you know after food and liquor kind of went to talk more about him being muslim and had more thoughtful wrap that was a beautiful and amazing but it's like there's all of a sudden his shift and i think it's because the music industry is perpetuated by a system and a group of people that part of a machine and so if they have something that is going against their normal programming of to keep people dome dickey people in a certain state in a certain situation they're going to kind of silence that so i think that's what happens a lot of times when rappers go from being one way to another way they kind of get removed from being in this scene because they're not subscribing to the normal process within rap which is the girls drugs cars money more whatever robbery killing excetera but it's it's just it's it's something that i think i'm trying to think about and i think we all should try and think about it perpetuates just be more wanting more so it's like you know wanting that fancy car wanting that you know five girls wanting the bottles that the club wanting the bags of money in the rolex like instead of music that makes you feel confident an inspired exactly where you warren with who you are you know it's like so then that would not promote consumerism can you imagine some rapper was like yo jesse present take a breath actually what you're so i think that'd be fucking don't make a dope hey that's literally like hey yo it starts with you like you know like the deck are totally like it starts with you and like take the breath be presently fuel economy is about the do the other shaming that that's the thing it yet the kind of using i have a lot of thoughts there but it is waste they'll wrap it is so it's like if you think about it a lot of these rappers although you may not know are part of this system not the music industry is an end that is a lot of times a dark system that wants us to to consume that wants us to stay in this system were buying were watching were never satisfied we wanna spend money we have to either work on ninety five or rob or steel or do whatever it is to to get this amount of money and we could never truly get they're so people are you know getting money in in weird ways they're either stuck within the system but yeah i completely agree all right yeah i wanna i wanna ashley just pull up a little audio from a his solo episode while i pull it up worried about tony i think it's i think it's important that we yeah so i think so i watched the interview with con yay an letterman what is it might not just my my next guest needs no but my next guest yeah yeah my next guest letterman so i have been in out of being a communist fan for a long time and you know a lot of stuff what the trump thing really turned me off an justin has been kind of like a writer die konya fan from from the beginning you know outside of his political views and beliefs there but watching that west letterman really just made a lot of sense to me was kind of the the rout he's taken in the process that he's gone through i think that konya was a part of that system within the music industry that was really challenging could kind of be a dark past and i think he's he's shifted in a way to go really a little bit beyond the kind of where we are consciously talking about you know as it relates to like how we marginalized and victimized trump supporters which is an interesting concept you know if you think about from energetic perspective i you know i don't know i don't really have thoughts as it relates to that but he was speaking to the the the idea around music and sound and how a lot of times with like wrap it has the eight awaits or the base that opens up you're lower shock rosso the eight await is like the boom part of a beat the chiefs yeah that kind of makes you like bob it's like the high hats and eight away it's usually what makes a rap song really good it's like metro metro booming excetera excetera an so they'll play that and open up your root chakra and then they'll kind of put in information from you're crown shocker that's being spoken and that's kind of like the stuff that dumps you down the stuff that is sort of like the brainwashing that he talks about so my name is talking talking about that he's like you know i just caught i'm rethinking music and i'm rethinking how i communicate what is i'm trying to say with in this industry in i think that was such an interesting astute observation and and that's a lot of the reason why he's doing sunday service service because sunday services in a dome it's all white everyone wears all white it's like energetically sound they only speak hide things they play these beautiful instruments day like seeing at a positive note in range and it's only families and it's just kind of i dunno it just been an interesting interesting interesting thing to witness and see you know him having this conversation with letterman about this when you know he he said different things in any talked a lot about mental health and mental illness but just those two points i thought were really poignant an interesting end really resonated with me yeah i've always been so affected and touched by like communal singing and not just like courses but like there is something till like raw communal fucking rep like adjust and it's it's not organizers not auto of you know whatever tuned it's like it is coming from like the deepest parts of these singers souls and it's so i've been loving watching like kim stories on sundays it's like dan that is something special and i hope that you know it does penetrate the music industry an inspiring new forms of music for people to start thinking about how how influential music is it is like be the soundtrack to so many people's lies and i hope that like what they're choosing is not that darkness and you know kind perpetuating any negative thoughts or things in their life so yeah i'm i'm with you on i'm a fan of canary now yeah it's hard though to you know like justin justin i got into a conversation after watching the letterman thing and i was like yo canyon is talking about what i've been talking about and he's like you know but i have the choice and i had the intention where i don't let that stuff penetrate me which you know is a thought i i don't know which is right if i'm right or he's right you know there's no real right about it but you know i think about that too like if you do have the intention to not be brainwashed or you do have the intention to stick to you're morals and values and not absorb the negative vibrations of the song whatever they're saying does it protect you and i'm not sure but justin always talks about that you could see such a hip hop hip hop fan and has been for such a long time so you know we kind of got into a conversation about that yeah i let me play this real quick from a trauma nerd podcast he's talking about the do sensitive the desensitization thank you on tv film in particular drew barrymore show 'em santa clarita diet and music so here we go five we've been programs wave in society but the thick mess that we keep being told is okay so that we could become desensitized 'cause we don't recognize that were being desensitized so that were okay with it so that when they do those things like when they when they invade you're country in start blowing people up you're not gonna have any fill that much 'cause you ready thought in the movies a thousand times and you saw it on tv and you're blockbuster hit films and you saw on your your greatest tv show is not gonna mean that much you when people are eating people bowl as cannibals because you have shows like california die and all these different things that you're just desensitizing your brain and your energy and your emotional body which knows that any form of watching any human beings suffer is a thick ness to your soul need i say more i really need you to think about that for a moment and really give some consideration to to how much of this spiritual emotional body we are causing poor meant to be khazar mind is overpowering and being a bully to are emotions and be fence tising us from the reality in the nature of our spirit that we have found it okay to be okay with any form of degradation upon the human body or human spirit right in films and tv in ben radio and music all of it to call women bitches and jose slots in an every time you hear a rap song song it's all about how big of this and how big of that how much she's taking in how how dirty she is and what a whole bag she is all this is complete disrespect women and you got women bounced into it in their cars and acting like some kind of cool be 'cause you've been so desensitized you don't even realize the amount of pain but your emotional spiritual body is going through because you're so disconnected your mind is only reacting to the beef and omg mm yeah i got that big got that base i got that bitch and a ha ha ha ha ha i got that busy goes down a bit it he gotta get that bit get down on you know i'm yeah just you get it but it's like it's powerful you know when you're kinda like he's just so good at calling out and ask at the same time asking people to fucking wake up and like level the fuck up mhm in oh yeah so be done having a great a yes so a coffee india you're having a great day in you know and you're so just just enjoy enjoy the rest of the day the music and watching tv oh you know just f y iron tensions never it's a shame you yeah or the same way just exploring this whole whole world together with you to be honest cause hearing that makes me think about things like on in and take it or leave it honestly with anything that we say on this podcast you could take it or leave it but it's just kind of what's coming up pros but shout out to shellman derek in his podcast ancient wisdom today 'em i just tuned in when i'm like kind of in the mood to lay yeah you fucking cold when i'm on that matrix shed exactly all right i don't know if there's any proper transition but other than i'm just really really excited about this episode today with the code deal roddy same he is such a delight he look so young i mean it's got that buttercream he has reversed aging because if you look at the cover of his book i forgot to die you would think he is old sick i mean he was just about to die you know he was a heroin addict among you know other drugs used and complete fool we transformed his life through food and obviously therapy and other modalities yoga and i mean his story is pretty wild yeah this is such a delay we are huge fans of sunlight organics they're a bunch of different stores in elway and elsewhere andrew 'em we have read the book you know we read the book awhile ago so getting a chance to have him on the podcast i heard him on rich role a few years ago so it felt like a serendipitous moment have him here in to go through historian go through some of the changes that he's made healthwise that have really changed his life and enabled him to lives a much more thoughtful unconscious journey mhm yeah an historic i mean he goes from working with hollywood movie stars and like rocky musicians really truly like living the life and the nineties and i'll lay but it accelerated quickly in found his way to like the darkest parts of elway and being homeless on skid row a being addicted to heroin and cocaine cocaine and from there you know falling into to psychosis in paranoia and i just can't imagine trying to fucking find their way out of that state of mind you know when you're just so dark and deep in it so he gives us this whole story and it's just really inspiring for anyone who has addicks who knows in abduct in family friends and you know he's been a real advocate 'em for addicks in no volunteering hearing and being on the board of many recovery centers and whatnot so shrew inspiring yeah so the company has some organics the book is i forgot to die and you could find him yet so coli over fadi dot com k h h l i l r s h e t i dot com and you can find his book his products all about him and his business connect on their website if you'd like to listen you think joined the secret facebook group on on facebook to connect with thousands of other women and you could join armbruster program to connect with women in your area sorry bester program enables be lovely people in our community to create community end events where they are and we are on tour so checkout are tour schedule almost thirty podcasts dot com slash tour we cannot wait to see you and meet you in for those of you out there that are starting a podcast wanting to start a podcast have a podcast about wanting to up level and you're branding marketing maybe wanna monetize we are we're launching a really really exciting part of your podcast pro in september so stay tuned for that were working really hard on that right now yeah and if you're in the dl area on august seventeenth we have a workshop so it is a full day intensive workshop on starting a podcast growing you're podcast monetize ing a podcast 'em so will be taking you through all the steps and it's gonna be you know a good five hour day with a lunch break in between and you could get tickets for that and i'm almost thirty podcast dot com yes right enjoy this episode share with your friends share on instagram we always appreciate it and if you're called to rate and review on i tunes that means the world make sure you're subscribed to the podcast so that new episodes so just show up and you're a little podcast impacts on apple podcasts an upset we love you we love you so much by right here the facts modern living which is you know everyday anxieties stressors environmental emotional whatever it is have caused an epidemic of imbalanced good bacteria which is led to a variety of negative consequences from weight gain to digestive disorders doing citing depression it is all so connected and we've talked about this on the podcast but sadly most probiotic supplements don't do much to correct the problem for a lot of reasons very few programs biotics on the market actually are capable capable of restoring how they got microbiomes why because probiotics most used the right amount of functional a multifunctional pharmaceutical strains of sport forming bacteria that should be are capable of surviving past the stomach to arrive alive in intestinal track this is crucial people and that's why we used silver fern brand probiotics are one of the few probiotics on the market that meet all of the important criteria and people ask like why do i need to take a probiotic i'm not sure everything from mood to energy levels to low fiber diets high sugar diet artificial sweeteners overuse of antibiotics cut all knock your got off of being allen's andy so i used probiotics i used digestive enzymes to break down the food i know and not really too much could very well but i am a big believer in digestive enzymes and i also from silver fern as you guys know love these endurance energy it eight preworkout of sorts but it's fire typical preworkout there's so much goodness and they're good for you is just give you the jittery is i really really love it so if you'd like to try silver ferns and got a silver fern brand dot com and use the code almost thirty for twenty percent off your first order so that is silver fern brand dot com use the code almost thirty for twenty percent off when did you start getting into crystal when i was a child i went into a place called sherman's jewelers four years old as if my mother and they had large msg oats and i was immediately drawn to this one particular gio and at first it was it was really cute and all these employees that it was like really cute and then i began dragging my mother back again and again and again going and i would just stand in front of this particular purple amethyst yoed and just stare at it and then after a while it starting to become kind of like a nuisance and like hey lady when you're a kid you gotta gotta school yeah so i was obsessed from an early age and then 'em she had this kind of a i don't even know where you call her she's from poland i dunno where they were called and over there and they don't call witchcraft or anything but she was like a psychic type you know friend that could predict a lot of things you know like eighty percent accuracy and she had me do something called astral projection yeah end 'em i immediately as a child as little she's like explain to me what you're seeing and i immediately went to this place the only way that i could properly describe or even come close would be kind of like in the old superman movie where he went to his dad's place and it was all made out of crystals that was what i experience when i did astral projection i went to what she thought was atlantis that's an in a an said the that's where i was from and then i'm now here and i'm supposed to bring a message to the planet so wow way to come out here like four years old you're like i mean i yeah i don't know it's weird it's really weird you think about that stuff and i'm absolutely obsessed if you if you were to come into my place you as much as you love crystals from what i could see like you'd be embarrassed me i mean it's it looks like a crazy you know like i'm like a crystal lady like i i have massive gasoline between crystal next to my bed i have as you saw inside my fountain i have big giant cathedral points inside my fountain inside both of my saunas i have multiple crystals in every shower i have giant crystals i really i think they give you a magic powers i think they protect you and i think they give you a magic powers did you lose that when you were going to year addiction i did that connection i lost everything i lost everything but i lost that for sure and john and it was horrible those really horrible for those people who have not read your book and donators trade leftist just kind of set the stage in that way so side no i i i read your book about two years ago we had just started the podcast i guess we were maybe six months in but 'em it's like a pipe dream job ilan were really really happy you yeah we were like and actually gave the books to one of my best friends his brother's a heroin addict and he read it and was very emotional and almost didn't know how to process it because like he's like this is this is my brothers live right now yeah he's not out of it so you actually sent his brother yearbook oh that was really powerful on this is two years ago so i don't expect you to remember but i just want to thank you choice in prison he less yeah okay i remember how yeah i do that a lot i i don't i don't say that detroit come across some good guy 'cause listen i sell a the books and all the time an i don't even know if you know but like now if it's in russian it's in shifts in bulgarian enrolling it's on audible so like it's going all over the world now so when people reach out to me and they're like really really struggling at first question always is if you've really really that destitute what do you doing dm me on you know probably in i phone and what do you do in that instagram i go to work but they're really really struggling i will austin say get my book and if you can't afford it please give me your address and i'm happy to mail it to you and a lot of people will take me up on that end most of the time i don't hear back but every now and then i get a message back that will just knocked me out of my chair i just really people claim and i know i don't know a lot but i'm smart enough to know that i can be a catalyst or i can be an inspiration i am not a savior i am not a guru of recovery or addiction or any of that shit this is just my personal experience about how do you how do you think that low how do you wind up a homeless muttering to yourselves sheets falling out of your head rotting corpse shuffling down the street with one flip flop on how do you get like that and then how do you become how do you go from that hopeless state of despair as a thirty three year old hundred nine pound convicted felon high school dropout junkie how do you go to than a forty nine year old hundred and sixty one pound athlete at four at forty nine years old looking fifteen years younger than i did fifteen years ago that's the crazy part yeah you look so i think you know he'll he'll look so healthy so when i get to deliver that message to people and they and they were able to receive that message it's really powerful and i'm the great beneficiary so i'm i'm glad i sent here yeah friend's brother a book yeah no they really appreciated it but i love to kind of start way back when and why you are in why i wrote the book in in this work can you know starting was you know you're childhood gets are experiences in childhood are what no influence so many of our decisions that are self worth yeah we take care of ourselves so wherever you feel comfortable starting yeah there's there was an there still is a sense sense of worthlessness a sense of i'm on lovable and i could trace back almost every one of those pivotal moments in my life where you know there's that part in in the book where i'm being severely sexually abused by a much older sibling andy i'm going to my mom and pulling on her insane please make him stop and she shows me away and says he's just tickle in you i remember chasing her car up lauren tied ed because my dad would make her work every single day seven days a week like a slave in his restaurant not ever wants thinking you've got a three year old kid at home who's unattended i mean i used to go in like sleep in the front yard until two o'clock three o'clock in the morning until they would come home anes when i think about that today i mean you'd be put in jail today obviously but this is in the very early seventies toledo was a heavily influenced by the mob there's a lot of gambling halls that were going on that time and legal hired mhm oh you are okay though highlights yeah and so you know is easy to throw a cop a fifty and say oh you know don't my son's crazy we were home you know so so it was very easily swept under the rug the violence 'em the kids the kids in private catholic jesuit school at that time because my parents were immigrants because i looked different i had a different name there were rumors and mumbling about you know violence and police showing up at my house and stuff so kids were in a lot of stated i in my house i wasn't allowed to stay the night at anybody's house which made me feel like a piece of shit i mean and and rightfully so i mean people didn't want me around there is all kinds of stuff like that that went into this building my mind in my psychology and my belief system that i was worthless piece of shit is different in i guess i was different i mean i came from different religions and different backgrounds and then at school they didn't know how to deal with me i would act out 'cause i desperately want attention so then they would stick me in the corner and they would would have done sat on my head and they would tell me that i was stupid and they would you know i'll never forget mishaan you're my sixth grade my first year of six paid i'll never forget her saying catcher feed off of that shared you put your feet on the furniture at home and i very innocently said yeah and she said said well that's because you have bad parents in out of my mouth came you already bitch and she grabbed me in drag me out in you know made me stand in the hall and all the classes that would shuffle up and down to go to the bathroom 'cause they made you get in line back then yeah like cattle wow bathroom oh yeah in jesuit catholic schools you had it was called a that was saint patrick's have had their down where i was i was held back an dumb so you know you know where i'm going with the sexual abuse violence at home you know neglect i was gonna say i was i'm shape a little weird 'em i have a very massive skull have a longer torso and very short legs an little kids are are merciless they would they were just crucify me and you know call me charlie brown in call me pumpkin ahead and tell me that i was retarded and you know leg and it was who is really really tough i could laugh about it now but when i think about that for a little boy like they sent me to mrs passage to the school psychologist which at that time was worse in writing the short bus if you were going to see the child psychologist that meant that you were fucked up right an dumb and i went like every other day because i would either acting out so violently or a interrupting class or or or you know trying to make people laugh i could get attention or i would do the opposite and i would just shut down and we'd go into these holes where i would just be non responsive almost catatonic and i was going through panic and anxiety attacks but i didn't know what they were so you know it's like just ripping my thighs and like you know pinching myself and if i was alone i would fight myself make them stop but i thought i was going crazy i thought for sure they're gonna find out they're gonna put me in a rubber room so and this is a twelve year old thirteen year old fourteen eighteen year old so 'em yeah that kind of set the stage for or you know decades of of self hatred in in feeling less than and 'em you know it's still it's still there it doesn't go away i mean once you make a million dollars at once you hop on your friends private jet it doesn't wash away all of that dysfunction in insecurity in fear so i had this interesting life of like very very opulent and there's a lot of success that has come my way and they're still a great deal of of deep deep insecurity in fear and a overwhelming sense of impending doom not not all the time i'm not in any way shape or form trying to gain sympathy for somebody i just want people able to understand how they got the way i got i also want people understand maybe we'll get more into it is how i got out from the way that i was but then also like yes they're lying to you and they say money can't buy you happiness i can promise you if you're making ten bucks an hour and all of a sudden you start making three hundred grand a year you're gonna be a lot happier money is going to make you ain't lot happier that sort of the good news the bad news is after that three year if you five hundred and seven hundred and then a million or whatever it is you don't become anymore happier and oftentimes you get a little more stressed out a little more frayed so there's been research that has shown that there is a cap on that happy yes i don't no you know it's probably variant depending on where you liz 'cause you know the the status of your income or their income goes so far certain places but it's actually been proven you hit a certain point you don't get any happier right but it's also important for people to know that you do exponentially get happier from zero to you know whatever his acting in the mid west it's like seventy five thousand i think on each i wasn't right it's like three hundred or four thousand dollars an and i can attest to that money is really brought a lot of freedom and a lot of happiness to my life freedom thank you yeah really yeah i think my whole staying with money is when i come in when it come around to wanting more or wanting to build more it's really the freedom that money has offered my life for sure and not think about my decisions not in a way of irresponsibility idea of like going shopping or buying purses but being able to buy my airline juice and not think about it also donate and not think about being able to get a nice hotel and not think about it it's really that freedom of thought and like living without constraint of what i'm able to do dale yeah it's incredible and it's available for anybody because if if idiot like meek and do it then anybody can do it and that's the god's honest truth and that's not staying humility that's reality you don't have to be smart you don't have the have great talent you don't have any of that shit to be massively successful you've gotta be willing to sacrifice a lot you know but you don't have the have all kinds of you know i i mean i sit on the board of of a of this one charity for the 'em the state are at the school in in a in northern india had when we had her board meeting and everyone went around the room and they were talking about how they got there i don't even know what it's called like you're under i got my undergrad at columbia and i got my doctors at prince whatever they're all the way out of the last one why could i just go first one school are not baby and they got the meat i'm like oh my dropped out i school and a i'm a convicted felon and i smoked crack and a shot heroin in everyone started cracking last year they were dying laughing at that uncomfortable silence and then i'm like for real i'm not joking and they're like really yeah like don't be fooled by the collared shirt they don't have and then the guy who's the the main do that's in charge of it all that put up the bulk of the money to create the boards school he cut me off and and a he painted me in such a beautiful picture that my only regret is that i didn't record it so anyway we'll is done this and he helps these people are like oh wow that sounds good self deprecation word yet on the drug is like the first time we found drugs little kid real little kid really yeah 'cause my mom my dad left when i was a seven am my mom said working nights and then all the kid that the older kids in the neighborhood knew that and i was desperately seeking a town so i would invite them over and they were all smoking weed and drinking and so is i at first it kind of like oh look at you know it's cute kid like drinking a beer whatever and smoking weed but by the time i hit like eleven twelve that has really doing it now is lacking out i was like smoking pot until i would like hallucinate freak out and smashed windows in shootout windows and what the guy a pellet oh yeah but still i mean ohio yeah yeah pelicans elegance and then from that point you didn't graduate high school right so i got kicked out of had kept out of saint patrick's of heather downs i got held back in sixth grade kicked out eighth grade went the saint john's got kicked out once mommy valley day school got registered got kicked out before the school year started wound up at bows you're which is a public school and jaw dropped out and why did you did you but with their dad leaving was there any reasoning explain to you or or did you internalize that is your fault or what was that experience like my dad was like super violent very angry guy on a lot of it is cultural alive but what what he was taught living in palestine you know pre israel palestine it's what he grew up around around and it's what he learned and he was you know continuing the cycle repeating the cycle thank god i stopped that cycle and thank god i stop the cycle of sexual abuses well thank god that i was able to recognize that you don't ever hit a woman you don't ever you know touch a child and you know i've said this on multiple podcast and i'm gonna say it again if if you're in the south of france and there is they young woman coming towards you in a bikini and she is clearly aj woman and right build out everywhere you're not checking eddie's if some scandal where the break about some famous actor was in the south of france and it turns out he's like hooking up with some seventeen year old girl i get it i i'm not i'm not condoning it i'm not justifying but i'm saying i can't wrap my head around that all day being a dude i was in the south of france last year i have no idea how will these women were however if a if a child is a child you don't touch a child ever ever ever ever you never in you're wild this whatever fucking weird sickness you have going on go talk to a doctor that you know don't touch a child end end and then i'll also say you know if you and your girlfriend you're in your twenties and she's acting crazy you're acting crazy and she comes out you and she's staring at you and throwing punches it you you know maybe in a situation like that sure i i i i could understand how a guy could have a knee jerk reaction but i'm talking about like beating a woman like what the fuck is wrong with you why why would you ever that's like beating a child or beating a small animal you don't beat anything unless another man is trying to take her life from you then maybe beat him back but the violence that i witness was unforgivable an dumb you know i don't i don't speak my dad i love my dad i know he is the victim of his upbringing and he is suffering under the same weight and under the same oppression of his ego as i'm suffering under the weight and oppression of my own ego i understand the struggles of being a man but 'em one of the things is it really brought me closure and i'm glad i got to do it was i was able to say to him before we stop speaking about six years ago i was able to save him like what you did with my mom is unforgivable i'm sorry you know i know you were doing the best you were doing i know she's a button pusher and i know she has a huge part in it but what you did unforgettable and his response was i don't remember and i said i understand i wouldn't wanna remember i there wow so that's his truth his truth is that it didn't happen her that he doesn't remember it happening she clearly remembers it happening and more importantly from my life and for the purpose of what we're talking about i remember it happening so tons of violence sexual abuse early drug is it's easy to see now how someone who seemingly as ambitious and you know full of life then gregarious and engaging his me could wind up sticking a needle in my arm every fifteen minutes just so i could go on just so i could come life was it a matter of leaving your body 'cause i can't imagine you know especially with the sexual abuse just not wanting to be there for it if it was if it was gonna happen anyway and it was you're a power powerless child so in terms of the drug use like did it feel like it was leaving the body or was it more of euphoric feeling that you were lacking in connection to people in yourself i'd say both let's say both in the in the very beginning there is there is amazing things had happened to me i was transformed in very very profound ways from suicide been from m dna from ketamine there is a lot of amazing experiences even on acid they heroin in the crack in shooting coke and that stuff was much more about seeking oblivion and just not wanting to exist just to the blood out my existence so there wasn't intense desire to feel euphoria did feel pleasure end a but then towards the end there wasn't intense desire to just not exist anymore and 'em so both yeah and that was the md may cause i've had a period in time where it was doing that quite a bit how is the end it was after informative from being a lot of ways very much yeah what would you say about that like what do you think was transformative it for you i so i can remember i can't remember this very specific experience that i had there is a young kid i knew him because of his friends with his mom's friends he was much younger he was probably late teens i was like mid twenties anisim at a rave and i was just starting to mess around with them dna anes i remember him like encouraging me to take more and more gonna go this party in whatever anes i started to tense up you know he's a very very handsome kid kind of a big you know athletic kid and i felt that thing that i always felt that that i felt threatened i felt so something's wrong or whatever and a ended up going with them to this guy's house and we took more an i got to that place that i don't even know you know we used to call it rolling i don't know what gets call today as high as a kite yeah i rolling in the back of my head and he had laid down next to me and he kept taking my trap my my trappers avoid i think that's what it's called and he kept saying buddy relax what's wrong he could feel beal you is in pathak yeah he even feel the anguish because i'm ready to punch i'm ready to fight like someone's gonna cost me harm right now i hated men i hated men all throughout my my my a young you know my jeans and much hated men an he kept saying relax relax any lay down next to me and i began to melts and i began to let go and he just put his arm around me and we must of laid there for five hours just laughing and talking and he kept saying you're fine man everything's okay everything's okay you have saying that he's such a beautiful little being he's 'em his name is column and 'em he was the son of a very famous soccer player just super beautiful you ended up becoming a huge model i think he's still modeling in in europe right now but i had this moment where i came away from that experience far less violent and angry and and there were other less significant that was the most significant moment i ever had mtm that was like where my hatred and my fear and my anger towards men greatly dissipated and a and yeah that that would've taken ten years of therapy andre maybe twenty maybe never yeah they'd be never i used to walk around like a little fire hydrant lift weights all day seven days a week and if someone had raw leg someone would look at me funny i'm i'm gonna go adam and here's the worst part i'm not tough but it didn't matter it was i was gonna expressed that fear i was gonna get it out i was gonna challenge someone to fight an dumb that stopped that never happened again really yeah yeah it's interesting with city md may in the therapeutic use that you could potentially have you know a lot a lot there and say muscle aside in india even asset at some parts and 'em but i just see you know i find that very interesting and you think about my experience at the end it wasn't healthy but their various periods in time where i felt like it was such a beautiful for sure melting and allowing end there's a spiritual part of it yeah you know which which people might say is true or false you know but i i felt like from me there was a spiritual growth element to it md amaze been used since the fifties in europe for relationship therapy drug to treat alcoholism to treat ptsd it's a it's a magical powerful substance that should not be fucked with it should be done in a critical setting if you're one of those people that can go the burning man once a year and take some md a mayor takes mushrooms and go back to being a normal adult god bless you and more power to you i'm not wired like that i'm i'm the dude that is at air one buying five bags of hockey chips 'cause my girlfriend's not with me and going to the house and like strategically hiding them all over the house and then burying a bag when i'm alone higher i feel i'm doubled over sick like i and i used to do reno's i feel like i've grown up a lot and they no longer huge readers any paki just block each you know actually don't ask don't tell me mark their their their we know that they're if they're reno's toes made a chip that was all organic and actually like all natural ingredients it tastes just like the rita's what what is it approved nanno so it's corn but it's there's no msg there's no there's no food coloring there's no nothing but they taste like cool ranch credos where they taste like around town an i o l i have eaten so many that my stomach is hurting and throwing them in the garbage and high on the back doug classic dug in the garbage yeah we've been we haven't learned forward like catch up all over everything and gotten it was a good one one of my favorite word of god in my life the last bad baki chips and i thought i had the dump coffee grinder wet at all like a lemon all paranoid about getting my brand new wood floors already i wouldn't dare go away go i'm wired like that i'm wired that you know if something is good then i need massive massive amounts of it so from me and for other people that have addictive personalities ladies were have a tendency or a predisposition towards addiction stay away from drugs but if you're a normal person and andrew suffering 'em and you're doing therapy and you're doing other things that are working 'em i'm i'm a huge proponent of it i i think that stuff is you know same thing with silla simon when i when i did suicide but i it it was just like the cow and best experience but it was the universe hugging me rather than callan best hugging me it was the universe hugging me andy 'em and it was incredible and it told me everything i ever needed and no minute end it whispered to me this is our last time and that was my last time i love that and that was like seventeen years ago i unfortunately i continue doing drugs after that meaning like heroin in yeah and all that stuff but that drug at that time told me you're done son it's over i just gave you all the wisdom you ever need to know let it go and unfortunately i didn't i messed around with substances that i shouldn't have messed around with us and 'em you know unless you're getting her leg amputated you wanna avoid opiates unless you're getting you know some major now i'm i'm gonna take that back even with major surgery in your mouth i've had multiple attractions now and be amazing doctor hershon malibu just said look any worse it of course i could give you wonder to bike it in her north or whatever but like it's just not worth it you're gonna take three advil into tylenol and you're and every single time i went through some mild discomfort but as good you know how many people i've heard a twelve step meetings i heard it dude from a wheelchair a from a wheelchair not out tell a story about how he had been sober clean yes at another shy about being clean out your book in twelve years and blah blah blah and i got my tooth pulled out and i took some bike it in continue taking bike it in got back on the heroin eventually right 'cause if you're gonna if someone can't afford yeah well i mean there's a multitude of things if you if you try going vegan every year and then someone gives you a hands ham sandwich chances are you're gonna go for a flaming yawn very soon right it's similar once you get that taste once you open pandora's box you're gonna want more end bigger and better anyway this this cat ended up high as a kite behind the wheel of a car plowed into some family someone ended up dying he ended up in prison and now he's in a wheelchair for the rest of his life because you wanna take like it in after a root canal so i just don't you know people ask me all the time well sixteen years when you have a glass of wine couldn't have a beer sure but but what if i'm wrong yeah or or is it worth for sure but then what then all the thousands of people tens of thousands of people that have heard my message that have gained so much now it's like oh yeah this hassle you know wet and made a bunch of money got back on drugs and here i am struggling with my sobriety fuck that now i god struck me sober and gave me a real big mouth and made me articulate and so i'm just gonna be the sober guy could handle i don't i don't do like i don't i don't do the twelve step meetings anymore like i don't i'm not involved in that type of service but i do a lot of other service work and you know without that stuff i i wouldn't be here thank god for twelve step programs but definitely saved my life after a certain point for me i had to stop sitting in a room talking about how sick i was and i had to go out and i had to do something about it yeah i got an amazing delivery this week and it was from my friends at cured 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just sent some of the cured 'em cbd hemp oil just basically the hemp oil the full spectrum wrote him boiled i got a two hundred and fifty milligrams sent to my dad and my mom you know i think they could use some help with their anxiety some help with their sleep some help with aches and pains and anything minor you know that they've dealt with throughout their life just to help them feel a little bit better so i sent that over to my parents so that's another option to her or anyone that's listening if you guys have a parent that maybe lives with minor pain are decades more trouble sleeping providing them with some of the cure nutrition hemp oil is it's a great idea so for those of you that don't know cbd another kennett cannabinoid works with the body's natural endo cannabinoid system to help regulate process these like appetite mood fleet immune system and others so it's it's just super super beneficial i found it to be helpful would sleep with anxiety ashley with my digestive system as well so if you'd like to try cured nutrition we would love for you to let us know what you get and we're using it for you can he's our code almost thirty for ten dollars off your first purchase fifty dollars or more at cured nutrition dot com so that's the code almost thirty for ten dollars off fifty dollars or more at cured nutrition dot com okay top ten favorite things is great night's sleep kennedy agree and i know a lot of you struggle with you're asleep myself included krista included and you're not alone one in three u adults don't get enough sleep if you're not sleeping enough of a factor cognitive function during the day like learning and problem solving and decision making and all the things you do and a good night's sleep is truly honestly and i've seen this in all this and experienced this myself is like a magic remedy for the brain and the body is specially if you're dealing with any ailments sickness a great night's sleep make such a difference and that is why we are 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the drugs and the self destruction that has happened within these kind of like a waste sissies you know what i mean like i'm just so i'm curious about that so how you came out here and then your experience perience yeah i was like no need to host turning twenty two three days before i got here an lucan i've talked about this as well like i i'm i'm i'm fairly confident had i stayed in ohio i probably would be eight functioning alcoholic i probably would be one of those had i do yeah i literally was every time i'm there i'm like wow this is startling yeah i would be at the blind paid right now probably yeah i'd be getting off work i'd be at the blinds egg in some wings and having some beers in every now and then may be having tanner fifteen beers and 'em going home and arguing with my current wife about my ex wife and you know trying to explain to my son who hates me from my first marriage to do what he needs to get along and my daughter from my third marriage like i i could see that with my life waiting to happen for me and you come out here and things speed up very very quickly very quickly and you have access the things that you just wouldn't have access to back they're not there's not drugs back there if there's so much time and there's so much money in there is such an intensity to the way we liv that you have a hundred lifetimes on the east coast and the west coast vs like a nice slow either sustained or miserable sustained existence back in those areas where there's just less going on a grade backs a grade i was thinking too there's something that i thought about that i think is like a correlation that i kind of see between you know you're experiences matic then enrich role and that was where i was first introduced you and that was such a beautiful conversation the times that you've had with him but and we've actually had a few addicks or former former radic's on and there's an interesting thing about where you guys have it all you know you have such a beautiful life like you're so healthy all these things but there is such an aspect to it where i've i've noticed and i'm curious if you agree that there is like hey this could all be gone or like there is a worthiness thing or there is a like a disbelieve almost at some points that like you're life would be this good or that at some you know like i if you're worthy you're not of the success that you've had of like everything that you brought a juror life there's a sense of guilt at times 'em i alleviate that by being overly generous with the people that are close to me my language of love is a gift giver i love to give gifts and i love the give opulent gifts i love the help strangers elected do good stuff and not get caught as i was taught and sometimes pretty extreme sometimes financial end i'm not telling you that should try to make you think i'm a good guy i'm telling you it's a coping mechanism there's something magical the tickets takes place when i see someone struggling and i'm able to help them financially without them knowing it was me or just doing it and saying hey listen 'em i made a shitload of money and i see how hard you're working and i know you got kids and i want you to take this and i want you to give it you're kids were put it in a in a in a bank account and let it grow invest it whatever you need to do that that doesn't make me a great guy that makes me a guy with a little bit of common sense that so much has been done for me i could do for others and not not the idiots that think that they can dm me on instagram and i'm gonna pay off their student loans or i'm gonna buy their mama house or whatever 'cause i get that everyday literally get that everything that yeah because i posted a really dushi pretentious you know shallow pictures on my instagram because it gets the most likes an it sells the most books ended garner's the most interest in my own personal brand not son life i would never put that shit on sunlight's instagram page because it's it's kind of sad in reaching in pathetic but my my world got very big very fast an because i feed people in very very wealthy areas and i don't ever ask them for anything sooner or later they wanna be friends they wanna hang out they like the dude from ohio would be interesting cinderella story and it's much safer for them to say to me like hey do you wanna you know we're going on tour in europe you wanna come or like hey i'm shooting a movie in wherever do you wanna help on are jet and come with me er like hey i'm going to vegas for the weekend i gotta jet picking me up in van nuys airport just pull your car right up and you could get on and we go it's great it's fine it's exciting but those eight my jets jets and those eight my penthouses and i've said it over and over and over again i living a town home i drive oval you know i lives on eight what was he very modest salary i'm not taking sally right now just because the first quarter of every year is super slow and we lose money but a i i alleviate the guilt by helping those closest to me or helping strangers and trying to do it anonymously if if possible de these sense of worthlessness and self hatred has dissipated a lot it comes back and waves sometimes it will come like a freight train 'em three years ago three and a half years ago when i sold a small piece of the company to raise money to open up more stores i had more money in my bank and i'd ever seen in my life and i went to a severe depression anes be amazing rick rubin we were going to dave asper is bulletproof conference in pasadena me and rick and his girlfriend in my business partner and we were we were crossing a street and i was just like i feel like i you know i'm falling into a whole talking about my depression an m and i'm like and there's nothing wrong there's nothing wrong this doesn't make sense i'm just really depressed press and he stops and he looks at me and he goes you just got a bunch of money and you just realize it all those things you thought were gonna finally make you happy don't it's an inside job i told you meditate go back and meditating and it is normally it was you know for a guy from ohio look were were in elway or i dunno you're listeners are probably east coast west coast whatever like when i say it wasn't astronomical amount money i mean for dude from ohio and reduce those living under a bridge but it was enough money that i could quit everything moved to waco texas buy a house and gets a joanna and what's his name to review it my my fantasy i just wanna hang out with but at that time like i could have done that that was like my perish you like i'm gonna move the waco texas and i'm gonna buy a house runners and fifty grand in cash and i'm gonna redo it four hundred and fifty grand in cash and everything's gonna be okay that is true and i could do that had more than enough money to do that however i would have delivered there with me inside this had nothing changed just a bunch more money came into my life so yes going from zero in homeless to making you know having a couple hundred thousand dollars yes i got happier and healthier and happier in happier when you go from making you know whatever having a couple of hundred thousand dollars a nothing changes in fact it gets weird because now all of a sudden i could go get that rolex and i could go get the big suv's version of the global then i was driving and i could put a down payment on a on a town home it doesn't mean shit you know once you're needs are met once you don't have to look at the prices on the menu anymore once you can't fly first class once you're never looking at the price of gas again once you're there and you're happy happy you're never gonna get any more happy that was that was that was a heavy heavy moment for me to encounter and i've grown from it a lot however you so you mentioned meditation so are there other or you know forms of ritual and self care that have really helped to i could just imagine that like you know the the attic part of your mind in just kind of having those memories you know you don't forget a lot of what you've been through the thick and flash before you and it can cause anxiety so how are you able to metabolize fat and be as present as possible for the successes in in front of you that you've created for that an for a multitude of other challenges that come my way yoga yoga's answer whatever your problem is yoga's dancer and i don't care if it's hot yoga or hot yoga were stronger yoga raccoon delaney yoga or all of above preferably is once you get a conviction about what is the right way then you're a danger an open mind you know if you're if you're across better get do some yoga if you're into yoga lifting weights you know if you're a big tuned illini try so much donka if you're vegan think about the fact that maybe incorporating some animal products into you're diet might be greatly beneficial for these essential fatty fatty acids and iron and the nutrients if you're a hardcore ohio you know i eat meat three times a day at yeah cornfed you know try moving towards a plant based diet always be fluid always be like water i think bruce lee said that always be like water so yoga is the answer for sure for all of my challenges secondary most powerful tool is gonna be sauna end 'em i i don't care if it's my beryl sauna which is hot hot hot you know two hundred and twenty degrees or if it's clear light far infrared sauna 'em which is more for detoxification in fat loss 'em i did that one last night and this morning i did the bears won the day before that i'll just kind of bounce back around sauna sort of like forces you into meditation the third tool is gonna be meditation but the weights meditate without finding a guru or putting a dot dot on your head or getting buying a turban or joining a cult like awaited just get into meditation is go sit in the sauna you know crusher legs or don't cross your legs it doesn't really matter but just sit in the sauna closure rise and focus on your breath if you can count out from one to ten and then count from ten to one backwards while focusing on your breath if you could do that a few times in a row which sounds so easy you're on your way to becoming in lake master biggest chances are you're gonna get the six or seven or you're gonna go backwards and you're gonna get the nine and then a thought is gonna come in and it's totally okay it's totally okay you're thoughts you're supposed to come in if you ever sit down in the sauna or sit in a cave sit in a comfortable chair and you are without thoughts call the psychiatrist right now if it ain't gonna have already out oregon 'em so a yoga sauna 'em exercise as an christos crystals i love crystals i love being around crystals and surrounding i've ever had people failure crystals yeah oh yeah 'em i had something really really funny happened where to crystals got stolen from the point doom location an dumb one of them someone just walked in and stole when were looking but one of them i was clearing it one of my customers duffield a good energy and when i put it outside in the sun i turn my back and i turned around it was gone there were no car are there is no people who is no nothing and i'm like is this like the irish folklore little people came and stole my that crystal disappear you're like that crystal done with this lifetime that was it it's out of that then then someone went down to cross creek you've been to cross yeah right and you see the big ones in the garden someone just walked up and grabbed a giant one and walked off with that and they tracked him down they got him on camera the kids at work for me they called security they call a they called security who's a homeless guy with the dog and they had tracked him down crystal is gone i'm sure he sold it for twenty bucks when andy they came back and they were all fired up and excited these guys at work for me they what should we call the sheriff shorter and i said no just some some nuts comeback some that do it again that kind of laughed and i thought i wonder how much money you got 'cause i paid thousands were that crystal and i'm like i wonder how much money you got that i'm like wonder why i wonder what he did with that money and across the street is a place called malbak kitchen and the first hundred dollar bill i ever got when i was still homeless but newly sober i went into malbak kitchen and i bought the sandwich i think it's in the book and my teeth were falling out of my head so i had to be very careful fearful about highlight bit ended a sandwich 'cause he was on a toasted seated baggage and a tuna sandwich on a toasted seated bag at end when i when i took the sandwich my face and i i smelled it and it was the first honest hundred dollar bill i'd had did you know that i paid for that i earned from working for this guy named daryl 'em who strangely enough i saw today who also strangely enough as the guy the builds all the tables person life now how much we didn't put together until later no way daryl cobb when i raise my hand in a twelve step meeting and i said i don't have any money to feed myself in anyone please give me work this gay couple of christian glenn an this guy named darrow both came up to me after the meeting crecy lender like yeah cleaner in her apartment and darryl is like meet me at starbucks tomorrow morning at seven am and i'll give you some work so darrow is the first one give me where i thought about what that dude did with the money that we got from the crystal now is caught it i don't wanna say i a little bit like tickled pink by it like i thought it was like kinda cool like moves through just like a bunch of chris will sit around grab wanders around so i'm telling my friend shelby about this and she's dying laughing she's like you've gotta be kidding me she's like you don't even you're not even mad i'm like no why would they get mad at my crystals right they were in the belly of this beautiful earth and these miners doug them out and i paid the money and i keep them around give give me energy and i'm i'm not again i'm not trying to sound like some spiritual guy they're not my crystals they're not my crystals none of this shit is ours we're the lucky recipients of being able to experience this realm of existence that god has blessed us yeah right not my money the saint my money yet if i go give someone hungry you know if i go erawan in someone's out front i throw them in one ear whatever it doesn't make me a good dude her spirit that makes me dude that's just barely scratching the surface of of of consciousness and understanding standing that we are all the same were all the same i sat with the man yesterday in he's telling me how he's having difficulty accepting the fact that his son is gay and i'm mike were all gay were all black were all like you can't you can't where you're tom ford and tell me that you hate gay people you can't you know like what would the world be like without gay people what would the will be like without black people without mexican people without arabs without were all the same the same it's just so silly some telling shelly this story 'em about the crystal and then she's like you're not gonna believe this and she pulls up a story on the internet about how in another let's just say foodservice place had a crystal stolen from it and the person that own these stablishment went on a rampage and posted this big thing about how dare you steal you know my crystal and blah blah blah and some famous poet i think his name is john misty here i don't know what the poets name is but she wrote eight were bottle her her shaming someone or taking this crystal and he wrote this gating bottle basically saying like what is wrong with you like and then it went viral and then people actually went and bill like a paper miss shea crystal like an homage to like to be smart asses and they put it on the roof bolden other ways i'm white black thank god thank god that i come from the background of being homeless convene penny less and knowing what that man and his dog feel like when people say you know all those goddamn bums i'm like hey hey hey you're not bumps they're homeless many of them are homeless must because they choose to be homeless just like i chose to be home so i'm not asking you to have a bunch of like oh my god we have to go take them all off the streets and put the house is seventy percent of them would probably leave and go back right to where they were i know that from personal experience right again this isn't a crusade to be do good or whatever but it's like let's just be let's just human human and understand that were all fighting fierce battle were worth what you were asking asking about in terms of the guilt and the fear and would if it all goes away whatever i drove my cfo's nuts this morning i called her up in how they dream of the day we have a cfl like and dry fucking crazy i saw that way i went on this ranch this like thirty minute diatribe and she's a mom so she you know she's got a two year old and a four year old so she knows how to deal with as she waited until i was donning gas myself out that she said we'll we always lose money in the first quarter i'm like we do those yeah do you always lose money in the first quarter we make a little bit of money in the second we make a shitload of money that's like it balances itself out 'cause i i woke up this morning like oh my god it sunny there's lines the door and all the stores and were hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and there's fifteen thousand dollars and my checking account i in in a in sunlight checking account how in god's name could there be fifteen thousand dollars in their checking account when we were doing fourteen million dollars a year in sales well she broke it down and explain it to me and that is the last time i call her and complain later in life it's business there's down so i'm living in fear right now i'm gonna have some sleepless nights until the second quarter rolls around so let's july until there's a bunch of money in her coffers and all of our lines of predator paid off and that's just life no no one told me go open up ten stores with four and more coming no one told me did you did you know all of a sudden the nutrition part of recovery like what you know if you're creating the health food store like you're treating her body like shit for so long what was that story in correlation between you're nutritional journey and you're nutritional healing dealing with what you're eating 'em andy you're recovery i mean my so i was so depleted end macy eight and then if you look at that picture on the book i mean that was me at a hundred nine pounds 'em with open sores all over my body and my chief falling out of my head so i let a jail pick that is eight first day of rehab pick and a six round the inside and she could show you the the mugshots 'em so that was a yeah that's the general public you're highlight sarah wow that billy billy joel type hair yeah it's thick billy joel the punk rock younger doc like okay i'm dating my yeah no no that's 'em well so i was so depleted and i looked so bad that when i started to first incorporates raw coconut cream a mockup powder spira lena 'em colostrum 'em cows colostrum cowan go actually 'em colostrum is mother's milk yeah what's in the water before it isn't like the very basis of what milk is created from or like why is different way protein i guess so 'em when mammal first gives birth for the first seventy two hours a day release colostrum from nebraska from their owners or whatever the politically correct term is called an there is so much you ever seen a horse born and it's all like spindle year a deer it's all like weird and then like two days later it's like this majestic that's because there's so much i g f one growth factor in colostrum probably mispronouncing it but i took massive amounts of colostrum a massive amounts of vitamin mineral rains synergy powder spira lena khloe rela 'em i was doing cleanses every type of cleanse i could get my hands on and people a people really appreciated my enthusiasm there's a lot benefactors in my early recover there wasn't just like daryl and chris in glen letting me clean their apartment if you read my book you'll hear there were all kinds of people really they were just good to me i mean even like this woman cindy land in like if i would even bring something up like a clinton she would be like go get three of them i want one in there's get one for my assistant and i'll pay for years like so i was always doing these cleanses a there is this woman named piatra had a a the first far infrared sauna then i'd ever seen and she would make me getting this far infrared sauna a an scrub my body from head to toe with this boar's head russell rush that say that right you know there's russia has foods that are made a really clear she yeah they're made out aboard layer story i brushing or dry brushing but i would do it in the sauna while on niacin oh i like especially like your blood vessels r o n open am lowering sweat and she's having you drink this alkaline water and she's quitting 'em a call it people don't do it is something that i did like a coffee enema no a ozone oh you is quoting ozone inner about in my but is it oh in nearby oh i only by the go ahead you've been in the ozone chamber yeah like in a little bag yeah did you ever inject it i know so i did it and downloaded dynasty is well but a trigger no oh no i get these all it okay like i dunno nothing's things a trigger okay you guys could be mashing up you know speed ball in front of me right now i think what we do what are the crystals so piatra yeah she would get me on all these like colostrum freeze dry colostrum in in the far infrared sauna and then i joined 'em idaho's called spectrum at the time but there is a gym at sunset pch and i could just barely audience and i would go there every single day and getting that sauna sometimes for hours and i don't mean that like i'm not exaggerating like i wouldn't go after twenty minutes i would take the nice scrub my body oh taken ice cold shower for five minutes of a give back in and just literally just drink a gallon of distilled distilled water and purge an end cleanse my body so nutrition was nutrition was monumental because if you're an attic and you feel shitty you're only gonna feel shitty for a certain period of time you could only sit on your hands for a certain period of time right sooner or later if you feel shitty you're gonna go to what feels great and it's easy you know people don't people don't relapse 'cause they're bad people people relapse 'cause it feels fucking amazing unfortunately a lot times you die and you can't gauge one that's gonna be i just some one of those people those so down at out that when god struck me sober the grace of god and shine light on my a static authentic existence 'em i just was like you know what i don't feel like i'm gonna get a second chance and i looked around at everybody there was like oh my god i'm sober forever and this is amazing and i'm like really i wanna get high i was very vocal and very honest about that for you know a good year and a half in i would tell my friends regularly like i really wanna get high and they'd be like okay let's go to meeting i really wanna get high okay well let's go get a juice at that store that you girl works you know i really wanna get high let's put air one i mean i was like a broken record's let's go jump in the ocean let's go work out well for a hike and so then once i got some time under my belt and i started to work with addicks in alcoholics i just did the same shit i'm not a doctor i'm not therapists i have initials in front of my neighbor behind my name but i feel like i am far more qualified than any doctor any therapists to advise somebody on their hopeless state of despair because i've been there i don't i don't care how me initials you have in front of your neighbor behind her name unless i could feel you have ru empathy an end and you could understand where i've been i'm not gonna listen to you just a shutdown how has it changed relationship relationship with god like getting sober and well isn't like when you are my relationship with god was always why don't you love me how could you do this to me why don't you love me how could you do this to me how could you let this happen never doubted the existence of god a even though it was a rocky you know upbringing i always had a sense of god i paid attention to spring and i used to play with a little bunnies you grow up in ohio you know there's like the bunnies and there is the rabbits and there is the birds and minnows and minnows in the creek and the leeches and the crayfish like i definitely had a good relationship with nature is it was he only relationship and i could really authentically have and i just wasn't allowed to go you know go the kids houses with exception of one kid 'em name teddy happening and his mom his mom took me in you know kind of scared me as well but between mrs dolores mapping hagan teddy 'em in nature that was that was the only love i was gonna get in and a and so you know how how could you let this happen to me how could you let this happen and how this happened to me too thank you god for my sobriety thank you guy from sobriety god can you please be with me right now can you please hold my hand there's there's a moment in my book ride get on my knees and i ask god to to be with me an there is an instant lifting there is an instant knowing realizing the presence of of my creator of our creator an dumb from that moment going forward i never wanna let that go i never wanna take that for granted so to this day i pray before every meal 'em i prayed just randomly i'll talk to god when i'm driving i'll be down at the beach and hopefully i'm saying it internally but something tells me i'm probably like they should all be thank you god for the purpose of this way low bar everyone sounds crazy nellie i'm they've got a good point yeah and a lot of fans like the crazy quote homeless person kind of making sense yeah throwing down with the man he's watching everything you do i'm like that's true yeah that's right here for show 'em and tony robbins also says like when you say you're incantations out loud it's much much more powerful so i often will like loud is that could be you know thank you god for this perfect health this perfect wealth and this perfect love i say a lotta positive stuff like that i'm a huge fan of norman vincent feels the power of positive thinking i'm a huge fan of thinking grow rich 'em i'm a huge fan of anything and everything tony robbins does and one of my one of my many gurus even though i don't believe in having a guru but i believe in having many growers what am i cruises oprah winfrey because when i was withdrawing is like thirty years old and has withdrawing my girlfriend was in treatment and i was i kicking is awful they called kicking 'cause you're legs literally will end voluntarily kick out and spasm some kicking on the sofa and i'm going through this horrible withdrawal and i had just about overdosed on 'em on on a show about the mob so popular on h b o brennan sopranos i had just like over again like if i saw one more episode of sopranos i was gonna kill myself and we still had money at the time and so i just i turn the dvd player player off dating myself a mary was one of the tv's had the built in dvd oh yeah really dating myself a little on that before he put in yet i turn it off and there was 'em i don't know what it was if it was a lifetime special if it was a v h one i don't know what it was and i should know what it was but it was it was the life story of oprah and it wasn't like she was doing and it was like someone else who's doing a behind the scenes of what happened to this woman in how how did she get to become i just assume like she's just like pretty careers matic woman that through nepotism or because she lives in hollywood or you know whatever i assumed it that's how she became what we called oprah i think at that time i still called her ofra i had no idea that oprah was born in the south i never took in a consideration what it must be like to be born black at that time in the south i never thought about her struggles with her weight because is i never thought about her weight i always just loved her i mean i think we all did right i think she struggled with her weight i don't there is yeah well that's the part that i really did know in as i was laying there withdrawing from heroin in feeling totally ron totally vulnerable she they they started talking about how she was raped and how she was molested and how i think it was even her own uncle 'em and then they talked about how she was pregnant as in early chain and i thought to myself i don't have any excuses how could i ever again say well i was molested and i was abandoned and that's why i'm a junkie how could i ever say that again be sure this woman went through the same shit that i went through and worse and she helped a billion people in that never left me i went back to using but that never left me and as time went on and i sort of got my shit together and i started a watch the show again and then the advent of oh network happening and all that stuff i just i i would watch that and i would think to myself this woman clearly doesn't need to work anymore she could go ten more lifetimes of that ever working again right but she continues to work because she loves what she doesn't she loves helping people and she is the proof that it doesn't matter what you go through that's not unexcused get high so the truth of the matter was i think it high because my swim coach molested me or my brother molested me i didn't get high because i've witnessed violence is a kid could have high because it's so good i got high because i was awake and i got high because i'm fucking selfish and it doesn't matter if it hurts you or if it hurts you give me rate gm card emir pin number you mid accused her car i'm gonna go get us some shit i'll be back in an hour and three days later i'm gonna show up looking like something the cat drug in and you're car's gonna be crashed and you're debit cards gonna be emptied and you're gonna have to call the police on me is i'm gonna leave it and bring becky drugs that guy is yeah that's pathetic i mean said well yeah i love that you said over she's a true true g in it is someone that you do see her success and you're like wow but then sharing her story again it's such a reminder minor injuries my boundaries goals she's very she's so big she is very good boundaries men like ability to be present an 'em i always think if or when i think of that last question for me i know i wanna just talk about that you must things fear phone sure so i saw his case in it is who makes it this one is made by shape sleeve 'em the one i normally have as a defender shield and then they are and has some guy in it which is they blocker of in mass which obviously come from your cellphone 'em and so what why do you have that 'em i'm really super sensitive to e m f stuff and if i have just a bear phone against my head and i talk for hours at a time which i often do as you can tell so 'em i would get really bad pinching headaches i would have sleepless nights 'em i would have low sex drive 'em low energy and i had no idea was because my cell phone with eating me alive and so 'em rick ruben turned me onto the defender shields anes 'em almost instantly just like what the nutrition stuff i responded so well 'em so then i took it a step further luke story introduced me to a guy name brian it might have been ben greenfield but one of those they're all friends and this cat came out when i was building my house like redoing my town home and we actually put like mash underneath the floors to block cms we put stuff in the walls to ply maps my lines that go down have cms blocking material on them 'em all my walser painted with the with the paint that has like a should they want it so it blocks and so like when i go into my bedroom at night i tried to use my pattern my phone won't work yeah it's not getting any but i sleep like you know yeah like a baby yeah have you seen underwear there is a company that has some blankets i talked about it before for pregnant women so they put them over their bellies if there ever on the computer anything like that amazingly enough but they also have underwear for men okay that block play a metal sons and you're punk i never put cell phone in my pocket you don't know never and i always used the defender shields pad it's like this is selling on amazon you put it on you're lap you put your laptop on top of it and 'em yeah i don't know that that's just evil i it is a hundred percent i wonder with men you know they've we've talked about lower sex drive with men and people were having sex lesson ever and i think there's so much that you know you forever but you probably have flower do that plastics in the in the water bottle of water but yet the left is interesting i've never thought about that role in it all men keep their phone by their pockets by the bed it's in the bed there on the phones all the time in i mean about the has more to do with it than what i was thinking was this just the water just the plastics things like that yeah i mean you couldn't there's thousands of case studies and you can go online and you could see you know people always held their phone in their right hand in you know to the right ear that got the tumors right here i mean my best friend teddy pappa nagin delivers his son he was a pharmaceutical mystical sales rep amazon his phone eight hours a day and mysteriously got a giant schumer right by near where he was holding his phones yeah the shit's real i mean they were not gonna know about it for a decade just like you know just like they told our our parents the cigarette smoking wasn't bad for them right eyes roll the back of that i mean come on their doctors people don't know this year listeners probably don't notice 'cause they're not old enough to know this but they used ab doctors in cigarette ads promoting cigarette smoke promoting smoking doctors you could look it up this is very weird but i'm owning it because i'm really digging wearing fun socks lately snakes i'm various shop it's kind of where it's like making a fashion statement where it's just like i feel by the talking point that you know they you know yeah i know like flip people in on your joke whenever you want where he brought oh girl and allegedly joined the club is the best it's the best so soft in cozy and comfortable 'cause sometimes i swear to god sports press choke me oh to i'm like my show ready for my read my shoulders heard so i'd be wearing a pair of thieves berlet honestly every day but i can it is so soft it's made 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experience so this summer before you travel do all the things make sure you have your contacts use simple contacts you've got a simple contacts dot com slash almost and use the code almost at checkout to get twenty dollars off your order that's twenty dollars off your order by going to simple contacts dot com slash almost using the code almost at checkout and i do have to mention that this does not replace this does not replace your periodic full i health exam not a replacement placement but super excited to offer you twenty dollars off your first order simple contacts dot com slash almost and use the code coast at checkout i can't believe people were allowed to smoke on planes yeah i'm already having a hard time with the stagnant air on planes cigarette people are doing now yeah a lot more huge of course none of the people that were gumbel we discourage it but there's a couple yeah shame them course led shame them i do see only answer online i would love to wrap up by talking about some light but it's such a a unique and special place not only 'em is the food incredible and smoothies everything you could just trust it i love walking into a place and just being able to trust whatever i you could you could feel it 'em but but the sense of community there is palpable your you know any any store that i've walked into 'em one everyone is young so i see like high school and not everyone but majority are 'em and and so i'm i'm curious as to why he made that decision to hire they're younger people and i know you are 'em just by default but i'm sure i know you're more active than napa like a mentor to them yeah a lot of ways more so in the beginning in the beginning it was just my partner and i haley we end 'em we didn't have any employees so i just like the girl that was at the coffee bean everyday who is i dunno twenty something twenty two i asked her if she want a job and then my shoe neighbors mike and i can't think of any other guy's name but they both asked me if their daughters could work for me and now is how it started it would be a lot easier to hire older people a lot easier 'em the majority of kids come to work at some life have never had a job before many of them don't need jobs 'em so it cost us eleven hundred something dollars to train each new kid mostly because they've never had jobs before 'em it takes six weeks train them older people typically don't apply and if they do apply they apply for the corporate positions so all of our corporate positions everybody's like in their thirties forties fifties whatever 'em the whole company is run by women and one gay men are no sorry two two three hole companies run by women in gay man that was not by design that's how it evolved 'em i don't 'em is that true it's not they don't know how i just been told over and over again don't mentioned that and i mentioned it over and over again laughing because because people say well then you're being you're being a prejudice against straight males or you're being what do they call it a discriminatory tori against straight males and i'm not we've had straight males come in to the corporate positions it's just women do a better job and that's that's reality and i don't i don't think you don't have to be smart to understand if you want something to run right led a woman run it because who runs the household doing that shit when you're a kid who runs also what if dad ran the household forget about my dad that would have been would have been dead but what what dad ran the house will feed all all star diet syria yeah hey mom runs household mom not only raise the kids many of the moms out there are working at the same time in cleaning end cooking andrew moms were like fucking super women right so i've got women that have those innate capabilities to create a nurturing loving nest in that is what i desire in order to be able to function under these high stress situations situations suddenly organics was a gift put in my lap by divine feminine energy the name came to me from the ether logo which is a pink lotus which you you couldn't get any more feminine then seattle literally right the logo is feminine the store smells feminine when you go inside ninety percent of employees are are female 'em it just it just happened that way i wish i were that smart i wish i were that creative like i'm gonna hire all women minute gay men and i'm gonna hire a bunch of young happy healthy you know good looking people that that just happened it happened organically pun intended 'em in the beginning i had an amazing idea then i was blessed west but i have very very very little to do with what makes some organics amazing today what makes suddenly organics amazing today are the people that work there and the people that shop there when people come in there and drink the juices and the smoothies and the bulls yes it's a hundred percent certified organic which most places aren't would almost all places are i mean i go the whole foods and i got us on life health it is not my faith anymore yeah think it's just it i just know where their ingredients were coming up so i drawn we're one air one oh i'm so sorry yeah you said oh my god i know i know i was thinking whole organic wholesome holy see how they have a jew dan yellow food that he could not be talking about right now foods i'm on lincoln boulevard like eight years ago which is the hottest nightclub in elway every model every i'm there and i'm wearing my jews as i always did an i'm looking at the protas and i'm like god that ginger and i'm like wait why is that kale so big now i'm buying forty thousand dollars a week of organic ganic fruits i know what organic produce looks like it's dented it's bruised browning edges are frayed whatever schinder is like any in bright yellow an i'm at whole foods and i say said the so the dude making my jews is that stuff organic and he gives me this hearst pat answered this like i'm out where we can't you know blah blah blah but i'm like no no no no i'm like dude just don't don't hustle music organic or not and he's like well what happens if i'm like you get the manager manager comes over super cool i'm like do me a favor just talk to me like were both human beings is this shit organic her not he's like no i'm like what all of that is organic everything you're selling out there is organic you're known as it organic grocery store why is you're juice bar non organic wow and he's just like sorry end so i go there one all right thank you for correct i go to air one and i go sunlight yeah and and we you know i know they owner he knows me i know the dudes that running i know you've all i know 'em victor the main do that runs all of them we swap stories we share vendors like i i i know even employees employees comeback and for having said that i'll have employees come from other places the like they share stories that would trigger stomach in a single aces they claim that there are a hundred percent organic legally by law everyone should know this out there yeah you can say made with organic ingredients legally if one tiny thing inside is organic meaning that ninety nine percent of everything in that product and be not organic and loaded loaded with poison and and chemicals and toxins but if there's one organic ingredients you are legally allowed just say made with organic ingredients it's a play on words you understand that they had a hundred waste a plan where he had how how about how about when they say do you 'em when they say well were organic whenever possible what does that mean are you out of your mind i could get at three o'clock tonight three m tonight i could have twenty pounds of organic produce i could have twenty thousand pounds organic produce dropped off on your doorstep we living in la pretty much anywhere in the country you can get organic produce now walmart is selling organic produce and by the way wholefoods does sell organic food is they just don't make their juices organic everyone does i know that for a fact yeah they're one 'em i don't understand like my life they would just have to charge more is that the whole thing and they wanna keep like i'm just continues takes away the cut costs no man it makes me really really sad moon i'm grateful so i'm grateful for some life i'm i'm a big fan as as anybody i am now just sort of riding the wave i don't run the company i don't hire i don't fire and have anything to do with running the company 'em i let the people who were running it run it they're doing an amazing job at it end 'em and yeah that sense of community that you feel when you walk in there that sense of authenticity that's just a mirror that you're looking at that's just truly i go into wherever i go the pasadena i go to u s c i go to century city i go to manhattan beach i walk in half the time they don't even know who i am anymore really yeah there's foreigners employees now a four hundred yell yes they yell some tyler like oh my i gotta read your book and you know my mom roger but sometimes they do that but for the most part like i go in everyone behind the counter smiling everyone's happy everyone's just still be there anthem and if i ever walk in and i don't see people laughing unhappy behind the counter that's when i'm failing and that's when i'll step in and say hey guys something needs to change prefer right now suddenly organics is it's its own thing it's evolved into this amazing lighthouse in the storm for all all of us myself included that you could walk in and you can get like amazing sustenance that's gonna detoxify you nurture you fortify you give you a massive amounts of energy and it doesn't matter if you're a vegan her paleo or primal muller whatever weird moniker you wanna place on yourself 'em we living in a way where you know you could rob a bank with a stick of bread or on routes now i know only fruits you'll die come on people too too much time on her hands but but anyway yeah i'm i'm super stoked 'em i love doing what i do i love the fact the book is doing so well and finishing up my second book oh tell us a second book is is upper skipped a book it's it's i love that yeah and how you could achieve the same results while you could you know whatever make money like v healthy find god whenever i'm just putting all my little secrets in there all the books i've read all the recipes all the things that i did it'll all be inside the second book in the second book the working title right now is remembering tillis i'll probably self published that one as well because every time one of those i make seven bucks now yeah yeah you should definitely self publish yeah so hit about the industry but it's pretty brutal what i what i know he heard that yeah so proudly self published that working on a documentary right now so i'm i'm more like moving off in the direction of like juanita reaches many people as possible because i have a very finite amount of time left on this planet i'll be fifty in october and time moves very quickly i don't even remember last summer how fast did last summer go by i know right even like deer already like like last summer flew by so fast and i after logically unrealistically look at myself in the mirror and say how many summers do you have left i don't mean in a wheelchair or i don't mean like on a sofa and i'm not able to move but how many more summers drive left i could do podcast date right and wrong reckon jumper i could do yoga and whatever like i hope it's twenty more which one i at least i listen i have no idea what i hope yeah but because i have such a short amount of time left i wanna i wanna used my talents to the best of my ability to help as many people as i can 'em before exa this planet i wanna leave it a little bit better often when i found it in you know when i pulled in today i cringe because i know i do every day the feeling ohio ohio and a rochester i can't remember the name but that was the first patient out we went no i know i know the now patient and it was a do department and i remember shady doctor and you would pay like you know six hundred bucks and they would just illegally prescribe you volume's like it in whatever and legos at hours go in there and being fake clean and sober by taking a bunch of drugs and they would make us go do this miserable meeting in a park and one day i looked up when i'm sitting at this meeting it wasn't a twelve step meetings which is a meeting that this guy like made up so he could justify well illegally dispensing drugs to you and i looked up in the street was a god nominate forget the chicken story 'em it wasn't missouri but it looked like misery as any other street which donor stoner misery pitches right around the corner of her hair is right now out of the lapd tackling the west valley police department an to go from that authentic state where i was like you know going in getting drugs and living that existence to where i am now to our hopefully one person out there is gonna hear this messaging how shipment of fact i could do it i could do it you yeah at least one personal hero for sure and also a note come to our house but now that they kind of know where we list where we were owner in missouri right around there oh this was so much fun and just kind of a dream bradley really make you we've always connected with his you're story and obviously somebody for the odd yeah that's me next i'm gonna treat you well twelve dollars every time there and like how is this running 'cause the kids they're still young now they feel old i'm like how is the store like running new gently do you see the most beautiful thing because it just it's like yeah empowers them and enables them and it's just like it just wasn't that exposes them the healthy food but i'm thinking about like you know changing it's changing the world and listen every other food place out there is bussing for people in from you know downtown layer wherever bussing them in trolling them in hair nets in sticking them in the back end and it's hot sweltering hot there especially in the summer it's miserable experience in all of the great masters but i studied parmesan yoga non christian murdy everybody said be very very careful who's preparing your food meeting the nfc yeah so these kids came in for jobs and then more kids came in for jobs and then more kids came in for jobs and the next and you know i got foreigner kids working at this company for the most part you know summer thirty summer thirty five but yeah like smoothies shop juice bar you know you're sixteen you want a cool job you know the guys owns it has kind of an interesting story so all these kids it's worked there but you know how many hundreds of times i've been told by people a thousand times smarter than me get rid of all these kids you don't need eight kids behind the counter you need three adults you will cut you're labor uber in half and i'm like yeah but then who am i then i'm on my way to being a whole foods i'm on my way of being any other brand some life has become that weird brand where whatever neighborhood we open up an older kids race thirty get jobs and they love it and it's fun yeah as a business owner it'd be nice to drastically cut my my labor cost but when i walk in i smile they smile you smile i feel like fucking winning right yeah all ganic you know it's all over again at it's clean it's fresh like i'm just gonna keep doing it i'm just gonna keep opening more and more these and everyone keeps saying like what's your exit strategy which said strategy my exit strategy like i'm hoping they hit eighty and die in my sleep with a smile on my face that's my exit strategy and they're like no no no but he's gonna roll all these stores up and sell it off the crafter selling off the cores light or whatever you know whatever large conglomerate pepsi yeah no well i'm not we'd been approached by you know twentyfive different hedge funds and different brands wanna come in and get a stop using all organic and adjust the menu a little bit up the labor down in open up a hundred stores not interesting i'm gonna do a i'm gonna do some life in austin texas yeah ass with john paul there's your yet and we were just there for a tour oh you are gonna love it you go i'm gonna do some life in austin texas but john bolton there's your area and his forty percent ownership 'cause he's putting up all the money is forty percent ownership goes one hundred percent of it goes towards feeding the homeless and building houses were homeless people 'em i'm gonna do a store in tribeca when we're in new york we work oh yeah voting us on the ground floor what month when john hoge over julie russia where the national champion instructor no way yeah oh i love julie julie a huge impact on me no i don't do it and we work and we didn't amazing went up in palo alto with someone else's name i'll leave out of it but let's just say yeah the very influential very powerful very amazing man and his wife an dumb it's going really well roping in west hollywood in october were opening marine county country mart in oh i don't cry out an awesome scottsdale arizona by july first oh nice yeah john i'm like yeah i should be a fun life lemonade oh like it out numbers show well i hope your listeners will will come in all my guys and we have a smoothie and if you if you know if you heard me on this podcast and you see me please please please grab me you're not bothering me grab me chances are i'll have a few moments to say hello and treat you to a juicer treat you to a smoothie and just catch up about life yeah that true 'cause when when i saw you in the store like a little over two years ago with a friend of mine said just read the book and i was like oh we need somebody like and i did and you were just like that's when i fell in love with you like they do you that is the thing that is the connection is what it's about so i love when there's a moment take there's that moment taken and then there's attorney yeah there's like this and then there's like oh hello and then i contact and then there's there's nothing there is such a in i learn like from people like you and even you talking about that as someone that is now starting to meet people in public of how to act in engage yeah you know turning nodding and acknowledgement and i contact and then also to it allows you to have a full moments and then when you're ready to leave you and leave yeah because you've already experienced that that person slowly you know in in that moment and i and i need it more than anyone i don't you know as far as of common is cool is my instagram looks i need a hug more so than most oh so you know we got you the overnights and sweaty now we gotta go down here so we'll get a little warm low but i know it's so good to have you here you guys were amazing at all for being here in 'em anyone who has a son life near them he's onto it yeah it just saying that andy reid i forgot to diet and get on amazon anywhere books are sold is it anywhere books are sold some it's pretty much amazon and 'em yeah quickly go order this book i mean what's the what's the listening when audible bottom going crazy on audible did you did you did i read how awesome is crying during it like oh now those heavy you have while i have to listen to that yeah i i highly recommend download will see in this one last time yeah all right guys will season love yeah i think so much decal y'all per joining us on the show that was a long time coming and he just loved digging into your story i know it's gonna be inspiring for a lot of people out there in almost any nation yeah that was a damn pleasure a you could find almost thirty podcast on instagram at almost thirty podcasts three zero are the numbers almost thirty podcasts dot com in we are on tour so we have some events upcoming this fall but we would love to see you at a we have chicago upcoming we have to events in nashville we have new york there's gonna be three shows there we have miami washington dc philadelphia columbus and and then ending in la andy in l a's number or super pumped and then we're also gonna be monitoring or moderating deep propel fitness festival that is july twenty first and twenty second in las angeles in santa monica an we're gonna be doing eight interviews that weekend so come pop and say hi check out one of the interviews there are some amazing guests there so we're really excited to be a part of that programming yes oh forgot to mention australia in november oh yeah australia can't wait and in sydney can't wait to see that was not at 'em okay here's a review we always reader of you on the other side were so grateful for your reviews it's amazing can't get enough five stars i'm so glad i came across this podcast i love how they bring on so many spiritual and wellness gas that had been so impactful to listen to the most recent episode with trauma dirk really was i opening on tapping into being eight queen kristen lindsey are so so vulnerable in genuine older episodes keep doing what you're doing ladies that is from isis thank you girl love you so much all right we love you guys thank you for listening as always share with your friends get the conversation going in the secret facebook group we talk about anything and everything it's a supportive funny inspiring community that